# Stuck



## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Brand new here. Cant tell which way is up.
Wife and I married 13 and together 19. 2 kids.
Guess we have had underlying issues over the years and not the best communication between us.
With that in mind, the last 2 years or so have been more problematic. Guess she is going thru a semi "mid life crisis" and did the typical: get in shape, a lot of time with the girlfriends and new clothes routine. In short she pulled away from me and the kids too - just not spending as much time with them and in contrast, most of my free time with the kids. Then in part because we were not giving each other proper attention, a change in her took place where you could see her going after the attention - including from other guys. She looks great and was getting a lot of attention. Felt she was flirting way to much (some flirting is fine as I am a flirt too but there is a line) and this has been a topic over last year plus. This became vicious cycle - the more she acted like this the less attention i gave; the less attention i gave, guess she continued to act this way. 
This of course had led me to be suspicious and concerned of an affair. Had 1 or 2 people in my mind as possibles etc. 
We recently had a few moments where we both realized we were screwing this up and knew we had a lot to lose and wanted to fix it etc. I had long resisted counseling but now agreed to go. 
Then the bomb hit - friend of mine let me know that there was a strong rumor running all over my home town that she was having an affair with 1 of the guys i had a feeling about. I confronted her and that was a month ago. It has been hell since. She adamantly denies it and even adamantly denies that she even had any kind of feeling towards him at all except friendship. In my asking around, there is no actual proof - its all just a feel people have when they see them interacting at work. Wife is a personal trainer (started a year ago) at the local gym and so is he. Never thought anything in the many years we have gone to this gym and i know the guy fairly well - suspicions started in the last couple months when I was not liking how she was acting.
She tells me there is nothing there at all and wants us to go to counseling to fix our problems but also is happy being this new confident person and does not want to change - she is blind to my complaints that her new self might be great but the flirting/attention seeking is over the line and that part is hurting us big time - and if it was not an affair, this caused a lot of people to think that there was one because of the way she flirts/acts. but she does not see that either - "if thats what they think its crazy and nothing she can do to stop people from what they think". 
I fear I will never know the real truth and this not knowing i think will ultimately ruin the relationship even if we stay together - i think i will always wonder as i'm not sure she would ever admit the truth because she knows that would be the end. I think at minimum there were feelings growing but again she adamantly even denies this. 
So - if I believe that "something" was happening or at least brewing and she will always say it was nothing, dont see how we can ever be good again as there will always be this underlying trust issue. And therefore i dont see how counseling now would ever change that - if she had at least said that maybe her flirting did cause this and that maybe she has to pull back a little etc, at least i would see a hint that she gets it - but i dont even have that. Sorry the post is so long but Im on a roller coaster and feel stuck. Interested to hear your thoughts here.


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## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

So, she's taking no responsibilities for any of her actions. And yes, it does matter what other people think. I wouldn't like someone thinking I was having an affair. I would not want that label and I would not want my husband, whom i love, to be humiliated. So, what would be her reaction, if the table were turned? I say she needs the fear of losing you put to her. I do expect my husband to respect my feelings and acknowledge my fears and he does the same. And we will do what we can to reassure the other and rectify any wrong doing on our part. If he put me through what your wife is doing, I wouldn't stay around for it. I'd give him the break he apparently needs and let him think for awhile. Would that give him opportunity or justification to cheat? If someone is going to cheat , they will, and if they won't, an opportunity won't make them.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks Dellia. I told her that if it were reversed, I'm not sure what the words would be but I would be damn sure that I would say the words and do the things which would 100% convince her that I did not cheat if in fact it was true. Regardless if I was a crappy husband in all other respects, I would make sure she knew I did not break the ultimate bond. She says that part of her wants to fight and show me i'm wrong and another part fears she will never convince me and this will ruin us and cant keep convincing me forever. I've told her that this is a threshold issue and I would work on all the other stuff to fix us but if I have this doubt, even a slight doubt, the other stuff does not matter and cant be fixed. If I'm being honest, if i had to place a bet, i dont think there was a physical affair - but i just feel something was up based on everything i have heard, seen and felt. 
On what other people think - i agree. not to my ultimate decision because if my trust in her was there, to hell w everyone else but she somehow cant understand that what i see is also being seen by others and even if no affair, she is acting super flirty out there and its being picked up on. 
We have talked about separating and it might be what we need to do - but I am so connected to my kids and them to me. Plus I have no real support system here and have no place to go. would have to ask her to move back in with her folks for a while. It would crush me if i dont get to tuck the kids in and do all the stuff we do all the time (son is 9 and girl is 12). Really hard to pull this trigger when i have no actual proof. Hell i can even understand maybe starting to have feelings for another as if i spent every day w a girl who was paying attention to me and we had fun together in general, based on us being at a low point in the marriage, maybe i would have developed this as well. And i told her this and she still adamantly denies anything was there - just that she has found confidence in life for the first time and does not want to let that go because she is happier. Told her great but if 10% of this new you sucks, and hurting the marriage, maybe need to change that 10%. Insides are all twisted up.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

My simple advice to you is to take control and drive -- don't get victimized and watch this all happen, and wake up months later and regret not getting in front of all this NOW... Make MC appointment and insist she goes (it will benefot you in some way, even if just to improve communication, give you and her both a 'safe' forum to discuss your issues). Maybe bluff at a polygraph test, saying if she passes you will never mention a word about it again -- BUT you will enter MC to work at your marriage disconnect and underlying trust issues brewing...

If she refuses the poly, you probably have a lot of your answer. if she accepts the challenge, don't back away -- many a confession has happened entering the office for the polygraph... 

I feel for you and can relate...My WS wife also did the whole weight loss/gym time fitness thing, felt great about herself -- but then became very self-focused, even conceited about it and she quickly entered the fog of an affair. When I asked her about her sloseness to this OM (who I knew), always denial of anything. Right under my nose... I trusted her over my own instincts. Idiot. My neighbor apparently commented about how often this guy was around... but never mentioned it to me. So people 'knew'; I did not.

fwiw, she looks back today, after DDay and trickle truth about her affair with her marriage potentially over and loathes the person she became (or so she tells me). I feel for you; a tough tight-rope to supporting her and her feeling good about herself vs. what happens all around it and how THAT part impact you... 

You have to start thinking (and planning) what you'll do under all scenarios:
- she comes out with a confession
- she digs in and consistently refuses to acknowledge anything wrong
- she acknowledges "perception of wrong", but insists there was no infidelity

(Also fwiw, because my wife never slept with her OM, she never thought of her actions, EA & kissing, as an "affair"...) Prior to her affair, she emailed her best friend + some others about her own "midlife crisis". So I can relate. 

If you want to fight for her and your marriage -- do it; fight; take no prisoners. Talk to the OM if you must. Talk to these people who have the rumors running. Get facts. Get active, not passive. You will be glad you did, either way -- and in the process demonstrate to her that you will not be a cuckold... Good luck.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks for this last advice. Poly has been on my mind for a bit now and may not only threaten it, I may ask that she goes through with it.
I have done my investigation here as best as possible re : where rumors came from. People tend to shut down a little when you ask them about what they specifically know. People dont mind talking about it amongst themselves but nervous about "getting involved" when specifics are asked for. 
I have been back and forth on the MC thing - i sort of feel that she owes me the truth without the need of making her come clean at therapy - i guess i dont see how it will help and i am concerned she will simply decide "ok i will just admit something" but not the whole truth. But i guess i have nothing to lose by going and maybe i can determine if i believe her after all said and done. 
We will have another long talk this weekend and I will put all options on the table - divorce, separate, counseling, etc and will see what we agree on. need to have a plan where we are headed and put it into action because cant handle how it is now.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Exactly what investigating have you done?

Checked her phone and phone records?
Email, computer history?
VAR in the car?

What proactive investigating have you done?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Re: investigation, this is all new to me so cant say it was crazy in depth. Took look at some cell phone call records and text numbers - but not meticulous about it. Her email is the family email address and i guess i would not know if she had a secret one. Just heard about the car recorder device and considering that. My investigation was more about speaking to people who heard the rumor - they all said it was based on a feeling they had but no hard evidence
How do i search the computer w a fine tooth comb? she is much more computer savy then me so it possible there is stuff there i would not know about. Not sure how to do this.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Doesn't matter at this point really. You can look, but odds are quite high she's done the cleansing of historical info on her computer.

You can call the cell phone carrier and get texting history. Your home phone company can provide phone call history. You can simply check the computer's browsing history, most recently-accessed programs, etc. and people here can try to lay out how to go through all that, but finding nothing there proves absolutely nothing either way.

OM is, I think, your best bet for fact-finding... other than laying it out in action-oriented detail with your wife... in order to stay, you MUSt have full transparency from her... time to 'fess up passwords and userID's to any & all accounts, email, text, chat, etc. -- no exceptions. The day you find one is the day it ends... no (more) lies, because if she lies, she is hiding something. She needs to be freely open to handing you her cellphone, no lock, at any time, and having you rowse through her texting/call history, browsing history, photos & videos, facebook/myspace pages, all of it. If she's go nothing to hide, there should simply be no issue. If she has an issue -- there's a reason. In your specific case I do also recommend a VAR in the car. If there is something to be found here, you will likely find it there. 

Again I can't emphasize enough to formulate plans in your own mind as to what you may do under any exposure scenarios - - because if & when an admission comes out, your world starts spinning very quickly and then emotional decisions get made instead of logical ones. If you never needs them, great -- you've still done some legwork on what you want just by going through the planning process in your mind...

MC doesn't have to be some 'magic' -- but it can provide a safe place to let her discuss things openly, freely, in a controlled setting... kind of like pleading your case to a judge, maybe. It may or may not be harder ot lie to a 3rd party than to lie to you... like you said, it CAN'T hurt, could only help. Also, just the process of going and participating openly shows an effort that you both need to see... again, ACTIONS over WORDS matter.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks 2x. We will be having out talk tonight. It will either be counseling or separate from my standpoint. It will depend on our convo. She i know would like to go to counseling. I am considering asking her to take a poly and that i would go to counseling like she wants if she agrees to do the poly to determine if there was some kind of affair going on. I try to think of how i would react if i had truly been faithful - hard to know for sure but based on all, I think i would agree so she would know its untrue. Of course if i did something no way would i agree and would do the "well if thats how much you trust me " thing. 
I'm new to this site and this entire topic so what does OM mean? Also, assume VAR is a voice activated device? 
I appreciate your feedback so was curious of what you thought on the poly thing?


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## Meatpuppet (Jan 2, 2012)

OM = other man

VAR = voice activated recorder

The VAR is a good, low-cost option (although the can get pricey). You also might want to consider a GPS tracker for her car. There are ones on the market now for under $200 that transmit real time telemetry to your comp and have a 30 day battery life. 

All told, those are better options than a poly. The results may not be reliable due to the nature of the questioning process, and it'd cost about as much or more than hiring a PI. 

Also, the "stealth option" VAR/GPS combo gives you the advantage of not tipping your hand. If she doesn't know she's being watched, you have a much greater chance of exposing her (if she is cheating, which I hope she's not). 

I'm going through the exact same thing bro...it really is a special kind of hell being in the "is/she, isn't she limbo". Good luck and keep us posted.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks for the acronym translation. Had no clue. Will get nothing out of the OM. My wife works with him and he has a family and has much to lose. Already spoke (yelled/threatened) and of course he denies. I know it might be easy for me to say since not in the position but if I were in his position, I would go out of my way to make him understand that it was all crap and rumor etc. But he has stayed clear of me. 
I will def be doing the VAR and prob the GPS as well. 

And puppet you hit it right on the head - it will be real bad if i find out it took place but at least I will know. And I will have clarity as to what the result will be - divorce. She knows this so clearly there is reason to deny deny deny. But therein lies the torture - is she denying because did not happen or denying for self preservation. Argument equally strong on both sides. But man its the not knowing that is killer. So hard to justify me not being with my kids every day (crazy close to my 12yr old girl and 9 year old son) without knowing for sure. Absolute torment. Big talk coming tonight and will see if it produces anything positive. Thanks again all.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Just as an update - had a long talk. Discussed separation but neither of us wants to be the one the leave the house or the kids - so unless i move out, that's not happening right now. 
She wants to do counseling and asks me if i am prepared to walk away from all this without trying everything that can be done. 
She continues to completely deny there was any kind of relationship at all - just good friend and one of her bosses - they work together for the last year as personal trainers (he has been her trainer as well for many years) and we both have been going to this gym for last 6 years. Its a family type community gym as opposed to a typical Golds etc. Sucks because its in my hometown, very popular here and sort of a "cheers" place - where everybody knows your name. and now I dont go there anymore obviously. She also does not see how she caused this rumor to exist at all - "people start rumors at the gym all the time" etc. 
I mentioned that i had actually considered asking her to take a lie detector. Said this just to gauge the response. Sounds like she would agree to do it but have not yet asked her flat out to do it. But I will. She asked me what it would take for me to believe her - also said to me "ok so if i pass this test you will be satisfied? i'm going to tell her that i need to have something more than just her words because i just dont feel it totally from her words and even a guilty person will deny deny deny to the last minute without actual proof. plus even admitting a EA etc would require her to leave that gym if she wanted to stay together - which will really impact her as she loves working there and I must admit is getting personal fulfillment which she has never had before in workforce. so if she takes it and passes, i will agree to counseling. If she refuses, I will probably start the process of preparing to separate. If she fails then its over for me for sure.
1 other thing - i told her that based on where we were, i understand that someone could start to feel things for another person maybe because we were just so apart lately and neither of us giving the right attention. could tell she was very concerned here and she thought i was telling her i had developed feelings for another. I have considered telling her i did in fact start to develop feelings for another woman (a lie) to see if this would allow her to admit she had the same thing happening. 
Besides a poly test asking whether there was a physical affair, will it also test for whether there was any relationship above and beyond a friendship - i guess an EA or a budding relationship? Because if i had to guess, if anything was there, it was that - my best guess right now is that there was no PA. Anybody have thoughts or experience with this?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What if she hasn't cheated? You are convinced that she cheated. Hard for her to prove otherwise if she hasn't. Poly is kind of demeaning when you don't have any proof. This suspicion will kill your marriage. Trust her for now but keep verifying. If she is cheating, you will find out sooner or later.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

have you got the VARs deployed and recording?

keep in mind that counseling can help - but it only helps if any affair is really over - and it's very often used by cheaters as a way to keep the BS busy and some even use it to convince the BS they are crazy. 

Has she agreed to not hang or be friends with this guy? has she done anything other than deny?

As for the poly - it can be a good tool.

Questions are best if they are black and white:

Have you had sex with another man in the last year

Have you let X touch you sexually or get aroused by him

Are you having an affair

etc.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

@Warlock - i have gone back and forth on the poly as there is no hard evidence. But what there is - a suspicion by me that something was up with this guy (turns out that other people had gone up to the other gym bosses and said "i would keep an eye on these two" and someone telling them there rumor all over town is these 2 are having an affair. so i dont know if my suspicion is correct or i was getting a weird vibe as each time i walked into the gym, the OM was wondering if i was about to come after him. The rumor (at worst) is out there because of how people see them interact at work and there was even one person who was going to say something because she felt uncomfortable watching the 2 of them "flirt". This plus her little mid life crisis has truly put a "I really dont know for sure" thought implanted in my mind and i need some extra proof to support her story. The poly if she passes (and i would absolutely do it for her in reverse) will give me a reason to hang on. She asked me what she needed to do to make me understand it did not happen - not i am telling her what it would take. Extreme measures for extreme times. Trust me, it hurts me to even have to be at a point where i'm even asking her to do this. have debated it for couple weeks.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

@Shaggy. I have considered that what she says in counseling may also be a continuation of deny deny deny. I would assume thats very common. Thats why i think the poly will not only let me breathe and trust that it did not happen but will also allow me to go into counseling with trust that she is being honest there as well. 
As far as hanging out with the guy, she works with him every day still. He is still her personal trainer and she takes an exercise class by him at work as well. There is no contact outside of work - as far as i can tell. And this is another reason I continue to doubt some.
I have explained to her that even if the "rumor" is just a rumor, how does she continue to have the "extra" contact ie - the class etc. The explanation is "i did not do this so I see no issue" etc. I see that as a problem even if there was nothing. Along with the poly, that will be part of the conditions set if she wants me to go to counseling to fix us. 
I will be calling on the poly today. Found a non PI and seemingly trustworthy guy to do this.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

for whatever it's worth: poly or no poly, admission or not, engaging in MC or not -- the REAL issue you have right now is that you've called out a concern to the future of your marriage, I believe you have asked her to dis-engage from this suspected OM -- and she refuses. Why?... it frankly doesn't matter how you got to the level of suspicion you are at -- you are there, and she doesn't seem to be willing to do what is needed to get you to feeling safe in the marriage... I really feel that is the core starting place for your dialogue, in MC or elsewhere...

Poly's will only be good at a simple list of yes/no questions... and are not foolproof. I like the idea more from gauging the initial reaction thjan actually going through... bc lets say she goes and passes -- then where are you two? She is resentful, you are unsure whether it "really proves anything, or she just beat the test"... I will say one thing though: in my experience and all my reading here from the wise people on this forum, there is no better gauge than one's gut regarding a potential WS... whether anything has actually happened or not, clearly she's been enough of a flirt with this guy that other people have noticed it AT LEAST as "inappropriate" for a married owman to engage at this level. Her denial of that suggests some fog... or more.

I don't know that I could reconcile why she wouldn't go NC (no contact) to preserve the marriage, your faith in her, all while working on the marriage itself unless she were into an EA or more, except as it suggests her lack of respect for your needs and wishes... 

ALL of that said -- it still could be much ado about basically nothing but high-intensity flirting, without some sort of proof, admission, or other evidence. VAR is definitely a good idea... do you have transparency of her FB/chat/phone/computer/emails?

Sorry you are here.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

New day: You are really relying on her word only. If she's having an affair there is no way she is going to tell you. if she's not having an affair, she is certainly not being a partner to you by continuing suspicious behavior. 

You need a keylogger on your computer. a VAR for the car. Phone records. You really need to do your detective work.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

So I decided to go see her father. he is a father to me as well - lost mine a couple years back and my father in law and i have been super tight forever. Truly one of my best friends these last 10 years. plus his first wife, (my wife's mother) cheated on him and that's a major reason he kicked her out. Told him i know he could not accept the cheating and needed to split up and I am the same way. Asked him to tell me what i needed to hear so that if i walk away from my kids, I know it was not for nothing. I know its his daughter and when it comes down to it, he has to back her, but could absolutely tell from speaking with him that he grilled her up and down on this and he is 100% convinced that there was nothing extra going on at all - including any EA etc. He is easy to read when he is not telling the truth. Wish the wife would have spoken with the conviction he had on the subject. Still going to bring up the poly and if passes, I will go to counseling and see if it helps us or not. If i'm going to ask her to take it, then i have to trust the result and will let go of any thought that she cheated the test. Otherwise why even ask her to take it. Every turn its something else that just makes it more confusing - one way or another. I know she will be resentful about the poly but she needs to understand how severely she has shaken my trust and she needs to do something severe to regain it. I will ask her to take poly and stop any extra contact with the OM - exercise classes and training. I will not ask her to quit as if she passes the poly, it would be unfair for me to have her quit the job she loves and gets a lot out of if there was no affair. If she fails, she will need the job to help support herself as that will be the end. Tomorrow is the day we talk about all this. Thanks to all for all the sage advice and will keep you updated.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

New Day said:


> So I decided to go see her father. he is a father to me as well - lost mine a couple years back and my father in law and i have been super tight forever. Truly one of my best friends these last 10 years. plus his first wife, (my wife's mother) cheated on him and that's a major reason he kicked her out. Told him i know he could not accept the cheating and needed to split up and I am the same way. Asked him to tell me what i needed to hear so that if i walk away from my kids, I know it was not for nothing. I know its his daughter and when it comes down to it, he has to back her, but could absolutely tell from speaking with him that he grilled her up and down on this and he is 100% convinced that there was nothing extra going on at all - including any EA etc. He is easy to read when he is not telling the truth. Wish the wife would have spoken with the conviction he had on the subject. Still going to bring up the poly and if passes, I will go to counseling and see if it helps us or not. If i'm going to ask her to take it, then i have to trust the result and will let go of any thought that she cheated the test. Otherwise why even ask her to take it. Every turn its something else that just makes it more confusing - one way or another. I know she will be resentful about the poly but she needs to understand how severely she has shaken my trust and she needs to do something severe to regain it. I will ask her to take poly and stop any extra contact with the OM - exercise classes and training. I will not ask her to quit as if she passes the poly, it would be unfair for me to have her quit the job she loves and gets a lot out of if there was no affair. If she fails, she will need the job to help support herself as that will be the end. Tomorrow is the day we talk about all this. Thanks to all for all the sage advice and will keep you updated.


Two quick thoughts: 
1) Her dad being 100% convinced is one thing. You being 100% convinced is another, please. She can convince dad more easily than she can convince you... she lives with you and interacts constantly. Frankly you will be harder to fool. 

2) Again, in your talk, I feel strongly this needs to be as much about her willingness to meet your marital requirements than what she did or did not do with this OM... good luck!


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

2xloser said:


> 2) Again, in your talk, I feel strongly this needs to be as much about her willingness to meet your marital requirements than what she did or did not do with this OM... good luck!


:iagree: good call 2x.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Well - just finished a long talk. Talked about how i feel and that i cant seem to reconcile everything. Long story short, although I wished that her denial was all I needed to believe her and dismiss the rest, i needed something else - something more to help me truly believe. and only thin came up with after long consideration was the poly. She had been thinking about it since i brought it up a week ago and brought it up to her therapist during the week. He told her he thought it was an awful idea and assume he told her reliability problems/inconclusive etc. She also mentioned the effect it will have on the marriage "after she passes" and that she could not even imagine having to be hooked up to something and asked these crazy questions etc. Told her it took a lot of time and thought to even consider asking her to do this as it hurts me more than she would know that we were at this spot. It was a calm and emotional conversation. She said "come to counseling w me and after we spend some time there, if you still want me to and the counselor thinks its an ok idea, then i will go". Obviously counselor told her to say this as no counselor in the world would ever suggest taking a poly. Told her i need exactly the opposite - do the poly and i will go to counseling. Talked about that the way it is, i cant continue on w/o being more firm in my belief in her and could not come up with anything that would help me here aside from this extreme measure. Told her to give me another option and i would do it in a heartbeat. Counseling is her constant response. Counseling would still have her deny and i would never know if its truth or the continuation of the denial. In the end, she said that although she wishes she could do this for me and show me that she is telling the truth, she just cant and sees it as something that would always be with her and she would never be able to forget that she had to go thru with it. I told her then we need to start talking about how to ease the kids into the understanding that there will be a divorce coming as status quo will get us nowhere. We talked about seeing a divorce counselor and she cant believe that that we will end up splitting because of this etc. 
We hugged a couple times within the next hour or so, both cried, told each other we loved the other very much and that we were both sorry for getting us to such a bad spot. 
I know the poly would give me an answer but i had been thinking this long before we spoke about it and during the convo - namely what kind of marriage do you have if this is what you need to do for it to continue. Its supposed to be hallowed ground and above all this. I think i would take a poly if the situation was reversed but as the words came out of my mouth, all i could think was this is my wife and what the hell am i doing. I either put trust in her words and eyes or i dont. If i dont, then i walk and if i do, I hit counseling head on. 
The hardest thing to do here is trust her denial - although life on the line i would say she did not cheat. 
I am hoping she will tell me in the next couple days or so that she has decided against her better judgment to save our marriage by taking this poly so i can turn around and tell her i dont want her to and that i will make the decision on my own. Based on what I've told her, I dont think she thinks that i would let her off the hook if she agreed to it. 
Man i wish there was a handbook for this crazy ride.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Ouch, I hurt for you man. From the outside looking in, I pick back up on my point earlier: She won't do for you what you need her to do, up to and including the point of it breaking your marriage. She won't stop contact wit hthe OM, and won't do what is necessary to prove to you that there's nothing to all your suspicion. 

Man if that ain't a limited partnership, vs the all-in partnership a marriage needs, I don't know what is. I'm sorry you've gotten to this point.

I will say, fwiw, I'd go to MC and hear it all out... I doubt you will be OK down the road having walked away knowing there was this one other thing you could have tried, in order to make it work, but for pride sake refused. Especially if, as you say, "life on the line, you would say she did not cheat". (btw I assume you mean "physically cheat" -- read here and learn about the power, effect, and damage of an EA).

You can go to MC sessions and still walk away in the end. And you just may get any 'confession' that exists to be given in an MC session where a 'safe environment' exists to get to the heart of the matter. But it's a whole lot harder to walk away, and then come back saying let's do MC.


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## New Day (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree 2x. That's what I think i will end up doing - the MC. I owe it to my kids to do it all first and even to the marriage to see if its supposed to be saved or its time to fly. And yes i don't think there was a physical affair. And if I told her to stop the extra contact (as again I am not asking her to quit the job) and we go to counseling, i am 100% sure she would do it. Her response to why she takes the classes etc is 1) i did nothing wrong and this is insane and 2) that I (me) have been going out lately here and there w the boys to all hours of the morning w/o my wedding ring (which out of protest i stopped wearing in late summer of 2011) so why should she stop her regular life etc ......... I go out lately basically because i am pissed about all this - well you know. 
I think that she and I are both really good people to everyone else and we would not both act the same way to the next man/woman we each end up with. Because the baggage would not be there. I'm going to start to look into divorce counselors and our finances so she understands how close we are here and will give her a few days to see if she brings up the poly again. If nothing, MC will be the deal and lets see what it brings. Hopefully peace at worst regardless of what the ultimate decision is.


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