# The trust is gone...



## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

My husband cheated with prostitutes... and naturally I'm hurt and resentful and at this moment I feel I will never trust again. I haven't made my decision to stay or go but I was interested in the opinions of others that have gone through similar situations. What works to rebuild that trust? What are must have conditions for him? A little background... We're both in our early 30's. We have been together over 10 years and have 3 kids. This is his 3rd time (that I know of) but the first two were kind of swept under the rug. We have started marriage counseling. Would knowing the details help me heal?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'll start with knowing the details. You are going to have to decide how much is enough and he should be honest about all of it. Anything you ask he should answer. Just make sure you are prepared for the answer. It will fill your head with visuals that you can't easily be rid of.

As for trusting him again? That is not something I could do. He's gotten caught 3 times now, that you know of. The thing with cheaters is they only admit to what they have to.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

MC is good for figuring things out. Even divorce can be better with good MC.

You need to tell your husband that you promise him nothing now.

Reconciliation is pointless if cannot come to grips with his weakness. He has to show remorse. You need a timeline with total honesty. Every time. How much money. Degree of emotional investment on his part. You need it all.

Tell him that trickle truth will bleed out your relationship, which is badly wounded.

Do the 180.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You have three children, which means that you want to be healthy in order to care for them.

Have you been checked for STDs? That, in my opinion, is the first thing you need to do.

Are you set on reconciling? If you are, the responses will be different from what you will hear if you want to extract yourself from the marriage.

I agree that you only know the tip of the iceberg. That is almost 100% true with people who cheat & especially men who cheat with prostitutes. I personally don't think I would decide to reconcile, but if you are leaning toward that, the next step would be seeing how deep the rabbit hole is with him. You need to know exactly what you are reconciling.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I did not want details of my wife's cheating. I don't think I could have been able to handle it. Just knowing she did was enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I did not want details of my wife's cheating. I don't think I could have been able to handle it. Just knowing she did was enough.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nor me. It tore me apart just knowing.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

I agree with Kristin. 3 times? and with prostitutes too.

I would get myself checked for STI.

I do not think i would be able to trust him again.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Have you ever considered the word "want"? It is want, not money, that is the root of all evil. The simple solution to your and everyone else's trust issues is to make all WSs want spouse and family over everything else. You see the ultimate issue here is wanting. People want pleasure and how they get that pleasure is the fundamental problem. To a more developed individual their pleasure comes from the security and solace that they provide for others. It is also derived from the pleasure others receive because of them. This is a deeper and more sustainable form of happiness because it is an expression of empathy and caring for others, an act of a selfless nature.

Now in a lesser developed individual, the want for pleasure is there and may even be more intense but it is more narcissistic in nature. They still glean pleasure from experiencing things that they find pleasing but their focus is on them and no one else. In place of finding it pleasurable to see your spouse confident and secure in the fact that they are in a relationship of commitment and trust they would prefer to feel the fleeting and shallow experience of orgasmic ecstasy with a prostitute. It is all about them and most of their thoughts are driven by the idea of fulfilling their own selfish desire.

These individuals are quite immature in their thinking and are actually not equipped to be in a mature relationship. This is why it is so rare for a cheater to transform because it actually requires a fundamental change in how they perceive life and happiness.

This change in thought process cannot be accomplished without the intellect necessary to undergo such a transformation and sadly, almost all cheaters are simply not that intellectually developed. To put it simply it is like asking and expecting a person with the normal intellect of a 10 year old to behave like a mature adult, it simply is not within their means.

This is a byproduct of our simple, easy, technically advanced lifestyle and as the generations pass we are devolving at an alarming rate. So, in answer to your question, can you ever regain trust, it really is not up to you because you still have all the trust you ever did. However, instead of trusting that your spouse will never cheat your trust has shifted, due to real world facts and circumstances, to believing that they will not remain faithful. You cannot rebuild what you never lost, only the WS can and only if they have the ability. Therefore, absent any real world facts to the contrary, positive trust has no foundation on which to form and without a solid foundation there can be no real positive expectation.

In order for you to shift your trust you must know that there has been a fundamental transformation in the individual in question. Absent that, your trust will be in the direction that the facts point you. It is regrettable but that is the situation for you, me and a host of others here. I wish you good fortune as you proceed.


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## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> I'll start with knowing the details. You are going to have to decide how much is enough and he should be honest about all of it. Anything you ask he should answer. Just make sure you are prepared for the answer. It will fill your head with visuals that you can't easily be rid of.
> 
> As for trusting him again? That is not something I could do. He's gotten caught 3 times now, that you know of. The thing with cheaters is they only admit to what they have to.


Yes I'm still thinking about what I want to know. At this point I feel pretty numb and I know any new information will hurt again... And it's either going to be the deal breaker that ends everything for good or the start of the healing process.


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## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> MC is good for figuring things out. Even divorce can be better with good MC.
> 
> You need to tell your husband that you promise him nothing now.
> 
> ...


Yes that trickle truth has my marriage in critical condition. I have already told him I'm 99% ready to move on. I don't like who I'm becoming. Bitter, suspicious, and weak. 
He says he'll do anything I want or need... I'm just trying to decide if I want to invest any more time and energy into this relationship. And if I go that route what I need or want from him.... this is the most difficult decision of my life, and I just want to think it through as best as possible.


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## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> You have three children, which means that you want to be healthy in order to care for them.
> 
> Have you been checked for STDs? That, in my opinion, is the first thing you need to do.
> 
> ...


Yes I've been checked already. Thankfully everything is okay this time.
I'm not set on anything but moving on seems easier at this point. And of course I need to know the details first and those details may make my decision easier. He already burst my bubble with my perfect world inside it. I'm still making my pro and con list of staying and leaving. Either decision I make will be tough. He actually helps me out a lot. He's a good father and provider. And other than this BIG issue, we get along great. I have family I can stay with, but it would be a little uncomfortable living situation but I would finally be able to move on and start healing. Because I just don't see how I can live with these doubts, I don't see them going away.


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## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

melw74 said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > I did not want details of my wife's cheating. I don't think I could have been able to handle it. Just knowing she did was enough.
> ...


I'm already torn apart but I feel I need to know...


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## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

melw74 said:


> I agree with Kristin. 3 times? and with prostitutes too.
> 
> I would get myself checked for STI.
> 
> I do not think i would be able to trust him again.


Call me crazy but I think it would have hurt so much more if it were someone he fell in love with or had an emotional affair with. But you're right he put me in a dangerous situation and I may never believe he could be faithful again.


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## 7ate9 (Oct 7, 2013)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> Have you ever considered the word "want"? It is want, not money, that is the root of all evil. The simple solution to your and everyone else's trust issues is to make all WSs want spouse and family over everything else. You see the ultimate issue here is wanting. People want pleasure and how they get that pleasure is the fundamental problem. To a more developed individual their pleasure comes from the security and solace that they provide for others. It is also derived from the pleasure others receive because of them. This is a deeper and more sustainable form of happiness because it is an expression of empathy and caring for others, an act of a selfless nature.
> 
> Now in a lesser developed individual, the want for pleasure is there and may even be more intense but it is more narcissistic in nature. They still glean pleasure from experiencing things that they find pleasing but their focus is on them and no one else. In place of finding it pleasurable to see your spouse confident and secure in the fact that they are in a relationship of commitment and trust they would prefer to feel the fleeting and shallow experience of orgasmic ecstasy with a prostitute. It is all about them and most of their thoughts are driven by the idea of fulfilling their own selfish desire.
> ...


This is great.. I've never thought about it in this way. maybe my expectations are too high for my husband. Maybe he's still has some growing to do before we or any relationship of his would work successfully. Sometimes I feel like I have a 4th kid. And I don't have time or energy to wait for him to grow up. I have a lot to think about....


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

I came to the conclusion that the only way I could trust my cheating partner was if they were capable and willing to lay everything on the table. To be completely honest about why they did what they did. 

For example; the TRUE answer might be that he simply lost interest in sex between the two of you and that he was too gutless to tell you for fear of making you feel bad and how that would affect him. 

In my experience, people cheat not because they are malicious, but because they are insecure, and gutless. They lack the ability to open up emotionally to the other person for fear of criticism.

So, in short, I think someone is capable of being truly sorry and trustworthy if they are able to work on themselves and find a place where they can have deep and open communication with their partner.

If you feel your husband is unable to make it to that place or is unwilling to change, or unwilling to even try, then I think you will never be able to fully trust him and I would recommend you then consider what you want from your life and what sort of person you want to be with.

For me, I found MC even more frustrating because it illustrated how incapable my wife was in expressing her feelings and how this led to the breakdown of our marriage. On the plus side, it makes it slightly easier to detach emotionally because you come to KNOW it isn't going to work.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

7ate9 said:


> Call me crazy but I think it would have hurt so much more if it were someone he fell in love with or had an emotional affair with. But you're right he put me in a dangerous situation and I may never believe he could be faithful again.


And yes, I wanted to know every single detail because it was part of the completely open and transparent path I needed us to go down.

Instead, I got more lies and found out she was still seeing the same guy the whole time. Ouch!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Adriana dropped her husband without a second thought. But they had no children.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

7ate9 said:


> Call me crazy but I think it would have hurt so much more if it were someone he fell in love with or had an emotional affair with. But you're right he put me in a dangerous situation and I may never believe he could be faithful again.


This is exactly what I was going to say.

Speaking as a man, going to a prostitute is a business arrangement. 'You do x to me for which I will pay you y'.
It is purely physical release.

Whilst I am NOT saying that it is OK for a married man to go to a prostitute, surely fcuking a prostitute is far better than falling in love with someone and making love to them?

You havent mentioned anything about your sexlife in general....and coming from a sexless marriage I'm not really qualified to help...but men generally only 'wander' if they are not getting their needs fulfilled at home.

If you can get over this and are prepared to try and trust him again, ask him why he went....

I've read of couples on TAM where they role play...she goes to a bar...acts like a prostitute, he picks her up, they go to a hotel room and bonk their brains out!

If you want to save things try to understand why..... Its a start.

Good luck.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

askari said:


> This is exactly what I was going to say.
> 
> Speaking as a man, going to a prostitute is a business arrangement. 'You do x to me for which I will pay you y'.
> It is purely physical release.
> ...



By this logic EA's should be far less of an issue for betrayed husbands as opposed to their wives fvcking another guy. For some that may be true but I see comments all the time on TAM that it's just as bad. 

She feels how she feels. I wouldn't near my hb again after he'd fvcked another woman, especially a prostitute.

And nice ending comment suggesting it could be her fault for not meeting his needs at home. You'd never see such a comment aimed at betrayed husbands. Have you ever told a betrayed hb to try to understand why his wife fvcked another man? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

If you were my daughter, I would tell you to divorce him and don't look back.

My H cheated with a prostitute in 1990 when I was age 30 and had three young children ages 6, 4, and 2.

Cheating is a deeply rooted character issue that does not go away. It will come back again and gets worse over time. The second time was an ongoing affair (2008). The third time (I am aware of-2015) he boinked a subordinate who was "friendly".

The worst part of it is that my H was a missionary the first adultery, is a seminary grad, was a prof at a christian college, attends church every time the doors are open, and is EXTREMELY judgmental toward certain "immoralities"/IOW he is scandalously hypocritical

In my mid 50's I am finally divorcing him and wish I would have done it at your age and had the chance to find a decent man to spend all that time with, bond with, and make good memories with.

Dump him and don't look back. You and the kids are better off without him and his baggage.

DON'T get into a rebound relationship. Spend some serious time in counseling to figure out what was attractive about him? how you missed the red flags? Get your broken man-picker fixed before you date again.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I agree, Blonde. 

OP, you would do well to listen to Blonde. She is one of the wisest posters on TAM, with a treasure chest of experience.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

_What works to rebuild that trust? What are must have conditions for him_

No more prostitutes/lying/cheating/total transparency. 

_This is his 3rd time (that I know of) but the first two were kind of swept under the rug_.

Three times means he will probably do it again. Just saying. PLEASE get tested for STDs. Also, rug-sweeping is NEVER the answer.

_ We have started marriage counseling. Would knowing the details help me heal?_

Eh... fine line. Some people want the details and others don't.

I did get details and probably could have done without them. I mean, it's all in the past now but I used to replay it in my head over and over again.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

To be honest I don't get the point of marriage counseling in cases like this. What does your marriage have to do with him choosing to fvck prostitutes? That's a character trait on his part. If you're not communicating well or there are other issues in your marriage MC might help but in a case like this it's not going to change your hb's propensity to fvck prostitutes.

It's very likely he'll do it again. What's your line in the sand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

If its your third time going through this then I doubt he will ever really change. We all want the love we once had but once it has been taken from us it will never be the same. Now with that being said if you can accept that and try to build a new love for him then that is great but if not you need to walk away. 

This was hardest for me my xW cheated over and over and over and I just kept thinking of my grandparents and how they taught me to stick it out. Nine years of dealing with her I was done. I tried to leave and she begged for another chance. I gave in. Six months later she repaid me by cheating again. 

I personally never suggest staying with a cheater regardless of the situation but its your life and your going to have to find what you want to do. 

I hope your days go easier on you. Its so hard taking care of kids and suffering from infidelity at the same time. 

Clay


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Right now the decision making power lies with you. Hurray!

Ask your husband for a detailed time line:

1) Every meet up date time
2) What he was thinking about the prostitute's looks, speech
3) What he asked them to do
4) How did it feel?
5) How much did it cost?
6) Did he tip them?
7) Did he think about returning to specific women? Why or why not?
8) Did he feel sorry for them?
9) What anxiety did he suffer?

His thoughts around Dday should also be in the time line.

Contrary to popular belief about EA versus PA when prostitutes are sex partners, men do have emotional involvement. Perhaps limited but that is part of emotional relationship. Louis Theroux did a great documentary. Download it and insist that your husband and you sit and watch it.

Going into the painful details will force your husband to think deeply about his behavior. Is he capable of empathy and personal growth?

Dumping him is a perfectly legitimate course of action. Attempting R is also okay. Rug sweeping is not okay.

Does your husband do drugs or drink a lot?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

My husband cheated with prostitutes for 8 years (that I know of). 

Years stolen I can never get back. Thousands and thousands of lies. 

I never once considered reconciliation and don't regret it at all. I felt bad for the children but he can have all the blame there too. 

I could never reconcile with a cheater. Nor date or involve myself with someone I knew cheated. 

I never needed to know the details, the cheating was enough. What I did find out sickened me even more:

Taking vacation days to hook-up with women.
Screwing in the car I drove.
Spending hundreds of dollars meant for our children.....

What other decision is there?

No way, not me. 

So happy I cut that growing tumor out of my life....


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some people cheat only once. Some people are serial cheaters. R is a very hard road under normal circumstances and much worse when you are dealing with a serial cheater. Even if he never cheats again, you will always wonder if he might. Trust will be very difficult. Triggers can last for decades. 

Some people do R successfully. But it's a lot of work and you need a spouse willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. Only you can decide if it's worth the considerable pain it will take to potentially get to a better place.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Some people cheat only once. Some people are serial cheaters. R is a very hard road under normal circumstances and much worse when you are dealing with a serial cheater. Even if he never cheats again, you will always wonder if he might. Trust will be very difficult. Triggers can last for decades.
> 
> Some people do R successfully. But it's a lot of work and you need a spouse willing to do whatever it takes to succeed. Only you can decide if it's worth the considerable pain it will take to potentially get to a better place.


And that is the problem. Spouses who cheat in the first place generally don't have what it takes to R properly.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

poida said:


> And that is the problem. Spouses who cheat in the first place generally don't have what it takes to R properly.



:iagree:

Very very rare


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## Colonel Angus (Apr 11, 2015)

A marriage where the trust is broken by infidelity, is seldom one worth keeping alive.






If I overstayed my welcome, just tap me on the head.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

When I discovered that my husband cheated, it broke something in me and our relationship that we will never recover no matter how sorry he is or how transparent he is with me now.I had given him my complete absolute trust which can only be given once. As I struggle to trust him and forgive him, I will never forget. I'm giving him his second chance due to the fact that we're a family. I know if it was just myself alone without children, I would have walked away. As he is adhering to what I need from him to feel secure, trust is always going to be risky for me. I don't want or desire to be the affair police or made to feel that the only reasons he hasn't strayed is because I'm keeping tab on him. If it's that challenging to remain faithful then let's cut our losses and be done with it. So, now we're in recovery but nothing is set in stone, I'm willing to give him the benefit of doubt but the future is not certain. Only you can decide what you can tolerate from him, so good luck and please require him to use protection until you can firmly believe he is doing such risky behavior with prostitutes.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> And nice ending comment suggesting it could be her fault for not meeting his needs at home. * You'd never see such a comment aimed at betrayed husbands.* Have you ever told a betrayed hb to try to understand why his wife fvcked another man?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Are you serious? I see ALL THE TIME on TAM statements that a wife cheats "because he's not meeting her needs". (Usually not physical, but other "needs".) JLD, who "liked" your post has posted in MANY, MANY threads this line of thinking. 

I think you may need to rethink your post. Or maybe read more TAM threads, because it's certainly there.

For example, here's a post in which Jellybeans addresses a guy whose wife moved out and is involved with another guy because her husband was "emotionally detached":

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/29801-need-advice-wayward-spouses.html#post395389

Jellybeans says: 
"Well yeah. Anyone looks good to her right now if you were distant/not putting her first and self-absorbed. That is a fact. As you know, the initial meeting of two people who like/enjoy eachother is short-lived. Both she and he aren't operating on a good foundation. They are both total messes due to the fallout of TWO marriages (and possibly children involved). So yes, he DOES seem good to her right now* if you weren't meeting her needs. that is a fact.* BUT, she she is still married and not rid of you which works to your advantage There is doubt for sure, on her end. No matter how tiny, it's there."

Now, it may be be true he wasn't meeting her emotional needs. On the other hand, I don't see an exception in your post above if the wife "wasn't meeting the husband's needs" is really true either.

So, I think your generalization that you'd "never see such a comment aimed at betrayed husbands" is just not factually correct. Search further the TAM threads, you'll find it. There's more than just this one.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> And nice ending comment suggesting it could be her fault for not meeting his needs at home. You'd never see such a comment aimed at betrayed husbands. *Have you ever told a betrayed hb to try to understand why his wife fvcked another man?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually...yes he did. Right in this thread below (which is currently locked):

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/261265-desperate-need-advice-dont-judge-post12382001.html#post12382001

The very same poster you are calling out (askari) said that an UNREPENTANT woman's 5-year physical affair was understandable since she said she wasn't getting emotional support from her husband (who apparently flirted with a friend of the cheating woman).

No hypocrisy here by that poster (askari). I don't agree with him, but he is consistent. 

You are seeing hypocrisy where there is none. Your generalizations are incorrect.


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