# My husband hates me because he doesn't think I love him like I should



## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

my husband has a lot of painful issues from his childhood and from his first marriage. we've been married for almost 8 years and his pain has shown itself through anger and disappointment with me for not loving him in the way he desires. not knowing how important oral sex was to him, I selfishly haven't made that a priority for him. he totally satisfies me in that way and he enjoys it as much as intercourse. now that I know he resents the fact that I haven't reciprocated, he says it's too late and he doesn't even want it anymore. he says he hates me and regrets marrying me. I love my husband and he refuses to think about counseling.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> he says he hates me and regrets marrying me.


Wow. This seems very harsh. Not something one can take back either.

What did you say in return? I'd ask him what would he like to do now since he feels this way.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

He needs some therapy. These unresolved issues will always pour over into your marriage some how if he doesn't seek help. 

I would suggest IC for himself and maybe some MC for you both.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

it's not the first time he's said it and he usually ends up saying he didn't mean it. my problem is the fact that he really does mean it. if I was able to leave him, I would. that isn't an option. because of his painful past, I don't think anyone could make him feel the way he thinks he should. he would always find a reason to feel unloved and not a priority. I just wish he could see that even though I'm not perfect, I love him more that anything in the world.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

saylavee said:


> it's not the first time he's said it and he usually ends up saying he didn't mean it. my problem is the fact that he really does mean it. if I was able to leave him, I would. that isn't an option. because of his painful past, I don't think anyone could make him feel the way he thinks he should. he would always find a reason to feel unloved and not a priority. I just wish he could see that even though I'm not perfect, I love him more that anything in the world.


Well if you can live with and accept a husband that hates you, I'm not sure what I can advise. You can only change yourself. 

And yes, people that say mean and hurtful things and follow it up with I was kidding or I didn't mean it really DO mean it.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

saylavee said:


> my husband has a lot of painful issues from his childhood and from his first marriage. we've been married for almost 8 years and his pain has shown itself through anger and disappointment with me for not loving him in the way he desires. not knowing how important oral sex was to him, I selfishly haven't made that a priority for him. he totally satisfies me in that way and he enjoys it as much as intercourse. now that I know he resents the fact that I haven't reciprocated, he says it's too late and he doesn't even want it anymore. he says he hates me and regrets marrying me. I love my husband and he refuses to think about counseling.


I have no idea about the mental state of your husband.

I do know however, that if my husband told me he hates me & regrets marrying me, I would have his bags packed sitting by the door.

You are making excuses (bad childhood, etc.) for him & the horrific things he is saying to you. I suggest that you go to marriage counseling alone for advice on how to proceed.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

saylavee said:


> if I was able to leave him, I would. that isn't an option.


Leaving is always an option. You have allowed him to treat you badly, and it will get worse. You have to ask yourself why do you allow this? Loving him so much is not a good reason.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

that's why I'm writing for advice. we have no money for counseling, and there is nowhere for me to go. when we met, he fell in love immediately and we were married within 3 months. I thought he was my knight in shining armor and I was happy to be swept up in the romance and excitement. we both jumped in too quickly and he expected perfection from me, even though I didn't know it. no one could have lived up to his ideal wife.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

I have a VERY similar issue with my wife, except I have never said I hated her for it. I love my wife very very much and I am VERY much like your husband. I could literally just please her orally, with my hand, whatever and I love doing this. I take pride in knowing that my wife desires me, I love knowing that she is thinking about me. 

I can somewhat relate to your husband because for a VERY long time in my marriage I was always the one who was putting the effort into it. It would seem like my wife would just ignore my needs. Granted, for a man, because of my smothering mother and overly harsh father when I was young I formed codependent behavior. That's a different story. 

My questions for you. Do you 100% completely understand what your husband is asking for? Are you capable of giving him what he is needing? Do you think his expectations are too high? 

Night after night my wife and I would fight because I always broght these feelings of uncompleteness up. This went on for years and I had always every night had to mention how she wasn't doing something right. Just recently I found out that I may be getting ulcers and developing extreme stress because of all of this fighting and my wife and I ad a very constructive talk. 

I told her that I realized that she was not happy with me always complaning that I am not getting what I needed, in her mind this translated to her that she could do nothing right because I never really focused on the things she was doing but rather the things she wasn't, she developed resentment over this. 

I said that this is not worth my heath or even worse my life. I told her that I loved her more than anything in this world but if the fighting and arguing keeps up it's best for both of us to find people who would make us both happy. 

I think this resonated with her because for the last week or so she has been a different person. I made sure to let her know how incredible she is being and told her this is the woman I fell in love with. I asked her what she was doing different and she simply told me she is trying to be more aware of my needs and she is just being consious of it where as she was not before, she figured I would just ask for what I wanted. 

Regardless my point of this is, if possible, have a real heart to heart with him. The key for you is to get your husband to reconize that you have it within you to be what he needs (if you do not have it in you to not do what he needs you have to be fair and let him find it).


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## uncool (Dec 12, 2010)

I bet if you asked your church leader he'd line you up with a free counselor. If your husband refuses to go then end it and find someone else. You sound like a descent woman and should have not trouble finding a man who doesn't treat you like that. 
I come from a sexless marriage and would enjoy ANY type of sex or intimacy offered by my wife.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

thank you for giving a man's perspective. he has also revealed that he holds immense resentment towards me because before we were married, I never invited him to spend time with me at my house. we would go out every night to a fancy restaurant and sometimes I would hang out with him at his house. the reason I didn't have him over to my house was, again for a selfish reason. there was a man I dated in my past and I was so afraid that he might be watching my house and I thought if he saw me with my new man, he would show up to embarass me. in retrospect, that was very stupid and it turns out that I never saw or heard from that man, but I sure did hurt my (now) husband. I didn't want anything to mess up my new and seemingly perfect relationship. he recently asked me about the reason I didn't have him to my house and my answer just added to the resentment he already felt. I don't think I can ever be accepted by him.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

saylavee said:


> thank you for giving a man's perspective. he has also revealed that he holds immense resentment towards me because before we were married, I never invited him to spend time with me at my house. we would go out every night to a fancy restaurant and sometimes I would hang out with him at his house. the reason I didn't have him over to my house was, again for a selfish reason. there was a man I dated in my past and I was so afraid that he might be watching my house and I thought if he saw me with my new man, he would show up to embarass me. in retrospect, that was very stupid and it turns out that I never saw or heard from that man, but I sure did hurt my (now) husband. I didn't want anything to mess up my new and seemingly perfect relationship. he recently asked me about the reason I didn't have him to my house and my answer just added to the resentment he already felt. I don't think I can ever be accepted by him.


So the question becomes what will _you_ do with this knowledge?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Without excusing your H's behavior, I bet his real need is more about emotional honesty and intimacy. Why doesn't she reciprocate? Why doesn't she tell me about the ex watching the house?

Living with someone who is not all there can really do damage to a person. 

How would you say your communication is in general?


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

we're finally at a point where we can be totally honest with each other. we have long talks and very open discussions. he keeps going back over the past and recalls every incident that I let him down. I want to focus on the present to love and enjoy each other. just when I think we're over a hurdle and we're starting to get things right, his true feelings come out and all of the progress seems to be wiped out.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I have a question. Did your H just spring these sources of resentment on you one night, or did he hint and eventually outright start asking for reciprocation and to spend time at your house over the years?

I only ask because there is such a huge difference between suddenly lashing out one day in such a hurtful way, and having 8 years of frustration trying to get the honesty (the why's) that he's looking for.

If it is just sudden, I do question why you would want to be with him. However, if he has been with you all this time and you do realize the relationship has been unbalanced for a while, he's probably lost hope that the future will be any different. That's definitely something you can work with.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

the first time he lashed out was only 8 months into the marriage. it happened several times each year and it was always ugly and hurtful. it was only recently that I discovered he was so hurt by the fact that I didn't invite him to spend time at my house. he thinks it was disrepectful of me and he feels like I treated the other man better than he was being treated. at first he understood about my fear of being embarassed by the other guy, but now he's concentrating on the fact that he feels slighted and disrespected.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Why do you think he's against counseling?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

My armchair quarterback guess is that your H has had a very rough childhood and he is only now coming to terms with the fact that he deserved better as a child. He only has you to blame, so he's comfortable staying in the past in situations where he "knows" you treated him poorly so he can lash out.

Your husband would get a tremendous amount of value by seeing an IC in my opinion.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

he just refuses to get counseling. I've brought it up a number of times, but he says he would never do it.


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

saylavee said:


> the first time he lashed out was only 8 months into the marriage. it happened several times each year and it was always ugly and hurtful. it was only recently that I discovered he was so hurt by the fact that I didn't invite him to spend time at my house. he thinks it was disrepectful of me and he feels like I treated the other man better than he was being treated. at first he understood about my fear of being embarassed by the other guy, but now he's concentrating on the fact that he feels slighted and disrespected.


This really, really hits close to home with me. I have felt those feelings for a very long time for my wife but I just dealt with it differently. I honestly think that he is just to the point of frustration, I was there not so long ago.

When you talk open and honestly, have you ever honestly said to him "Look I am willing to change, but in order for me to do that you have to get over the past and start living in the now." 

If you knew you were wrong, apologize to him. Tell him you realize it was silly but tell him the truth. Tell him it was out of the love for him that you did this, if that's the truth of course. Let him know that you love him, unconditionally and that you are there for him. 

For me, personally, it was all about feeling alone. I felt like I was married to my roomate. She never went out of her way to do the sweet things I did for her. Little things on occasion was all I was asking for. A nice text during the day just telling me that she was thinking about me, telling me she desired me sexually, a note left on the counter in the morning when she leaves early just reassuring me of her love. That kind of thing to me is very important. 

Not only that but when it came to intimacy I would always the one who would initiate, it seemed like if I did not initiate sex we would never have it, she could go weeks without even thinking about sex where as I wanted it as much as possible, so when we did have sex it felt empty because it was just her basically letting me get off and go about my life, no passion at all. 

Are these the kind of things your husband is asking for?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

saylavee said:


> he just refuses to get counseling. I've brought it up a number of times, but he says he would never do it.


So he refuses counseling, and you refuse to leave. I guess you both just like to wallow in the misery or something. Sorry but I get really angry when I read people griping that they CANT leave. YES. YOU CAN. You are just choosing not to, because its easier to just sit there. I cannot believe your husband is still throwing something in your face from EIGHT freakin years ago! And something that really isnt even a big deal! That is utterly ridiculous on his part. He needs help. He refuses help. So get to work on yourself, get to the root of why you have insisted on being treated like crap all these years. Someone mentioned a church counselor, that would be worth looking into, or a pastor or something. You cant change who he is and only you are responsible for your own happiness.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

I have done all of that. Expressed my sincere apology and asked for forgiveness, pleaded that we leave it in the past and start fresh, I send him sweet and sometimes sexy text messages, I initiate more often. He thinks what I did re the house was the most disgusting thing ever and he can't forgive me. I'm at a loss.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

You can't make him forgive you. You can't make him love you. He has to want to. As long as he doesn't want to, this will go on. How long can you take it? You can't change him, you can only change you.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

3Xnocharm said:


> So he refuses counseling, and you refuse to leave. I guess you both just like to wallow in the misery or something. Sorry but I get really angry when I read people griping that they CANT leave. YES. YOU CAN. You are just choosing not to, because its easier to just sit there. I cannot believe your husband is still throwing something in your face from EIGHT freakin years ago! And something that really isnt even a big deal! That is utterly ridiculous on his part. He needs help. He refuses help. So get to work on yourself, get to the root of why you have insisted on being treated like crap all these years. Someone mentioned a church counselor, that would be worth looking into, or a pastor or something. You cant change who he is and only you are responsible for your own happiness.


I agree. Your husband has to want to change, and he doesn't have the tools for it himself. You have your own issues to deal with as well. But if nothing changes, then nothing (especially your marriage) will change. 

Do the two of you have kids? Are you capable of supporting yourself?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

saylavee said:


> my husband has a lot of painful issues from his childhood and from his first marriage. we've been married for almost 8 years and his pain has shown itself through anger and disappointment with me for not loving him in the way he desires. not knowing how important oral sex was to him, I selfishly haven't made that a priority for him. he totally satisfies me in that way and he enjoys it as much as intercourse. now that I know he resents the fact that I haven't reciprocated, he says it's too late and he doesn't even want it anymore. he says he hates me and regrets marrying me. I love my husband and he refuses to think about counseling.


I also have many childhood issues That I am working on. I often feel like my wife doesn't love me enough. That is so stupid because we have been together for 20 years now. We both have intimacy isues and I get angry sometimes...many times... because of that.

Your husband doesn't hate you, he hates himself. 

Like me, your husband may have been unloved as a child. (just a guess) so he will find any reason today to make that unlove continue in his mind. He wants to relive the pain in his early life. I do that to myself all the time.

I even threatened to leave because of feeling that my wife doesn't love me. 

If my wife did all the things that I want her to do, I would still find a reason to be angry here and there. I feel like I am watching a movie in my mind and I can see it all evolving with me being a character and yet I have no controll over what I say. I feel like I am bipolor or something. THEN I realize what I just said and it's hard to say oops...didn't mean to say that! I was an a$$. Believe me, I don't think you are selfish. I don't know how my wife really deals with me and my issues.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Pravius said:


> For me, personally, it was all about feeling alone. I felt like I was married to my roomate. She never went out of her way to do the sweet things I did for her. Little things on occasion was all I was asking for. A nice text during the day just telling me that she was thinking about me, telling me she desired me sexually, a note left on the counter in the morning when she leaves early just reassuring me of her love. That kind of thing to me is very important.
> 
> Not only that but when it came to intimacy I would always the one who would initiate, it seemed like if I did not initiate sex we would never have it, she could go weeks without even thinking about sex where as I wanted it as much as possible, so when we did have sex it felt empty because it was just her basically letting me get off and go about my life, no passion at all.
> 
> Are these the kind of things your husband is asking for?


I can relate to all of this. I don the same thing with notes, texts notes on the mirror. My wife has no passion during sex. She just does it for my benifit.

Still, thats how she is and although it's getting better, It's still hard for her to be the first to say I LOVE YOU. Thats just how she is. I have to accept that or it just eats me up inside.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

saylavee said:


> my husband has a lot of painful issues from his childhood and from his first marriage. we've been married for almost 8 years and his pain has shown itself through anger and disappointment with me for not loving him in the way he desires. not knowing how important oral sex was to him, I selfishly haven't made that a priority for him. he totally satisfies me in that way and he enjoys it as much as intercourse. now that I know he resents the fact that I haven't reciprocated, he says it's too late and he doesn't even want it anymore. he says he hates me and regrets marrying me. I love my husband and he refuses to think about counseling.


Do His Needs Her Needs together. Spend time talking this all trhough.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

saylavee said:


> I have done all of that. Expressed my sincere apology and asked for forgiveness, pleaded that we leave it in the past and start fresh, I send him sweet and sometimes sexy text messages, I initiate more often. He thinks what I did re the house was the most disgusting thing ever and he can't forgive me. I'm at a loss.


He can't leave the past yet. What you might try is verbally including the past while creating a new future... "I forgot how much I like sending you sweet texts during the day. I'm going to make a point to never stop doing that again."

I imagine you get some points for the text, but what he is really looking for is to believe in the future. Your acknowledgement of the past and resolution for the future probably means more right now than the action itself.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

Gosh what a difficult situation for you. I'm sorry.

In my experiences, I was more in the position of your husband when I entered my current marriage. I had a LOT of emotional baggage from both childhood and an abusive relationship. I had up a guard against it all to push it away from myself for along time, but being with him tore my guard down because he was so loving and understanding.

All my anger and hurt flooded out, and, not knowing why I was doing it, turned all my feelings on him. I said a lot of stupid, hurtful things he didn't deserve. As truly, the anger behind those comments were aimed at my past, not at him. At the time, though, I didn't realize this.

Luckily my phase was short-lived. I got over it in about a year, and that included me having to properly deal with the true emotions I was feeling.

What I'm getting at: You are RIGHT ON that your husband is having difficulty dealing with his past. He sounds flooded by the pain and is directing it ALL at you. Why? Because you're an easier target than the REAL target. You cannot reach back into the past and reconcile your pain, so you reach out to whatever is in front of you in the _present_. It's not right of him of course, and you do not deserve it, but there is hope.

He needs to confront his demons in a big way. Whether through therapy, or by talking with you more in depth, he needs to deal with his past before he can fully devote himself to you in the way you deserve. He needs to recognize his feelings of hate and anger are not truly aimed at you.

As for the BJ, don't pay so much attention to that. It's just one of many indirect paths he'll use to vent his emotions. If you gave him BJ's all the time, he would find another path to vent, because the emotions are still fueling him like coal in a fire. 

I hope you are able to help him find a way to deal with his pain, but a lot has to do with his ability to WANT to face it. It's a long, painful process. The first step to this is to let himself feel his emotions in their entirety, and to mourn such difficult times in his past. This can be a VERY scary thing for him to do.

Good luck, and big hugs


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

Already Gone, how did you recognize this in yourself? I've been trying to get him to see how his damaged childhood and his horrible first marriage affects him today. He refuses to see anything because of his deep anger and resentment. And he won't consider the possibility that his feelings are a result of his prior history.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"when we met, he fell in love immediately and we were married within 3 months."

This is the entire problem. You married a man you didn't know. He was basically a stranger still, at 3 months (and you were a stranger to him, as well).

So now that you know him, you can accept him and the fact that he has these issues which might prevent a happy marriage between you....or you can own your mistake and end the marriage, realizing that you were asking something impossible of both of you by getting married when you didn't know each other.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I would find it excruciating to live with a man who only showed me one emotion, which was anger. I would question the reasons why I would want to. If I've done all I could to ease his anger, apologized, treated him with respect, offered loving gestures... and all I continued to get was hostility and hatred, I couldn't stay.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Stop apologizing!! All this is doing is keeping you stuck in exactly the same place! Why does he think he is entitled to constant apology for something from so long ago, and so trivial? Thats very controlling!


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

after his previous outbursts, he would ignore me for a day or so. then he'd be nice and tell me he didn't mean the things he had said. when we were in a good period, he was the best. he's always been faithful, a hard worker, enjoys helping with the cooking and cleaning. during those times, it was easy for me to think he really loved me. now it seems like there will be no more good times. he's made it very clear, not like before. sometimes there is not an option to leave, which is my case. no way out


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> sometimes there is not an option to leave, which is my case. no way out


There are ALWAYS options. Not wanting to or being afraid to take them is where we get stuck.

Go talk to an attorney. He or she can give you a few options to consider. That is unless you are content to wallow in your misery for all eternity. If that's the case, then carry on.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Say,
It sure seems like you are 100 percent focused on his flaws. You say you love this guy. Why is it in 8 years of happily receiving oral sex, you never even asked if he wanted it? 

Why not just get in the shower with him and tell him you want to please him and just do it. I don't believe the house thing. That is a proxy for something else. Meaning he wonders of you were seeing someone else at the time. 





QUOTE=saylavee;1451030]Already Gone, how did you recognize this in yourself? I've been trying to get him to see how his damaged childhood and his horrible first marriage affects him today. He refuses to see anything because of his deep anger and resentment. And he won't consider the possibility that his feelings are a result of his prior history.[/QUOTE]


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

I've tried giving him oral from time to time, but he pushes me away. I was wrong for neglecting it for so long and he has every right to his feelings. I only wish he would move on, put the past away and embrace the present. I think he loves being miserable.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"I think he loves being miserable."

This is something you likely would have found out about him had you known him longer than 3 months when you agreed to marry him.

So again, you can either accept him as he really is (which he is showing you now), or you can realize you made a drastic error in judgment by marrying him and move on.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I think he has the wrong idea of what a "blow job means" as it pertains to a loving relationship.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm searching to find the right words to get him to look inside himself. I don't want him to leave this world before making that connection. It's important to me that he knows that I love him and that my actions were never seen as disrepectful by me.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

saylavee said:


> I'm searching to find the right words to get him to look inside himself. I don't want him to leave this world before making that connection.


In your case you can only lead the horse to water, you can't make him drink. You can TRY by repeatedly showing him how open and non-judgmental you are when he DOES start to talk about these things. Does he ever say ANYTHING about his past? How does that go when he does? Does he close up suddenly?



> It's important to me that he knows that I love him and that my actions were never seen as disrepectful by me.


I think deep down he knows all of this already. He's acting out anyway because he hasn't learned any other way to cope. _None_ of this is your fault.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

saylavee said:


> I'm searching to find the right words to get him to look inside himself. I don't want him to leave this world before making that connection. It's important to me that he knows that I love him and that my actions were never seen as disrepectful by me.


You've done all you can do. Told him, tried to show him. You can keep this up till his last breath, if he has decided to hold a grudge over your mistakes, you have no control over that.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> I think he has the wrong idea of what a "blow job means" as it pertains to a loving relationship.


Let's be reasonable, if you had orally satisfied your partner for eight years and he never reciprocated, you'd feel a bit neglected too.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

The fact that I was neglecting him in that department is horrible, and he won't let me even when I try. The biggest sin in his eyes is the house thing. He says he'll never forgive me for that. This seems to be the ultimate betrayal in his eyes. Maybe there's no fixing it.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

saylavee said:


> The fact that I was neglecting him in that department is horrible, and he won't let me even when I try. The biggest sin in his eyes is the house thing. He says he'll never forgive me for that. This seems to be the ultimate betrayal in his eyes. Maybe there's no fixing it.


All of it is indirect nonsense fueled by his past. He will ALWAYS find problems with you until he fixes himself (as you know).


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

saylavee said:


> I'm searching to find the right words to get him to look inside himself. I don't want him to leave this world before making that connection. It's important to me that he knows that I love him and that my actions were never seen as disrepectful by me.


OP, for what it's worth, I think he is starting to look inside. I also think he's scared to death. Thus, the refusal to go to therapy.

I came from a rough childhood, and I can relate in some ways to your H. I was stuck at a child's understanding of relationships until I went to therapy - took a good 3 years of IC to get where I am today and I think I'm still learning every day.

Anyway, he is probably handling this complex situation in the best way that he knows how, which is that of a young boy. He's starting to understand he might need boundaries, but he does not know how to use them yet (he wants to push you away, he wants to push oral sex away, even though he wants those things). He wants to tell you that he thinks he's not getting as much as he's giving - but it comes out in the worst possible way because he doesn't know how to deal with it.

That's why therapy would be so helpful. He's got some catching up to do.

And you can only take so much of it. Best you can do is work on your side of it.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

saylavee said:


> The fact that I was neglecting him in that department is horrible, and he won't let me even when I try. The biggest sin in his eyes is the house thing. He says he'll never forgive me for that. This seems to be the ultimate betrayal in his eyes. Maybe there's no fixing it.


I think you have the healthier outlook - mistakes were made, and you are willing to work to fix them. That's all he can ask of you.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

saylavee said:


> Already Gone, how did you recognize this in yourself? I've been trying to get him to see how his damaged childhood and his horrible first marriage affects him today. He refuses to see anything because of his deep anger and resentment. And he won't consider the possibility that his feelings are a result of his prior history.


That's a very touch question. I didn't wake up one morning and say I finally realized why I am so screwed up...To make my pathetic story short... I lost both of my parents. My mom when I was young. My Dad when I was 27. My younger brother killed himself about 10 years ago when he was 33, and my older brother died from HIV a year later. One year after that our then 2 1/2 year old daughter developed a brain tumor. My wife has been there for most all of that.

Before I met my wife, I stopped drinking and went to A.A. I also went through IC for addictions. Still before I met my wife. All the A.A meeting I went to and IC sessions, Didn't solve my issues. It just made me aware of them. So when I met my wife, I was able to appear somewhat normal and aware of my junk.

I am still not where I want to be. Like I said I was willing to leave my wife and daughter because I felt unloved. That was just a couple months ago. The movie in my head keeps playing. I can blam my wife for all of it because she doesn't do what I want her to do. Tomorrow, it will be something else. She is just an easy target and because she is so sweet. I get upset if she doesn't initiate a simple hug. jeez! I know I have unresolved anger in me, even though I am always working on it, it's still hard to get a handle on it. I honestly don't know why or how my wfe doesn't just walk out on me. However that would just confirm my belief that nobody really loves me. 

95% of the time I am so easy going, nice, romantic, I cook, clean, give her massages, and so much more...Then Something silly happens and it's all her fault. WHY DIDN'T YOU DO...

What the heck just happened?


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

Wow, I see so many similarities. My husband has all of the wonderful qualities you described. I don't want to confirm his belief that no one finds him worth loving. His early years were soul-crushing and the one safe and true loving relationship he had was with his grandfather, who died when he was only 23. He was tricked into marriage at age 16 and later found out his wife was cheating throughout the marriage. That gave him license to cheat, until they divorced. I know he has never cheated on me and I would love to find a way to his heart so he can get out of the past.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

saylavee said:


> I'm searching to find the right words to get him to look inside himself. I don't want him to leave this world before making that connection. It's important to me that he knows that I love him and that my actions were never seen as disrepectful by me.


Your huband has to come to that conclusion himself. As far as the house thing, to me... that shouldn't be an issue. It's just an excuse for him to justify his anger.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

saylavee said:


> Wow, I see so many similarities. My husband has all of the wonderful qualities you described. I don't want to confirm his belief that no one finds him worth loving. His early years were soul-crushing and the one safe and true loving relationship he had was with his grandfather, who died when he was only 23. He was tricked into marriage at age 16 and later found out his wife was cheating throughout the marriage. That gave him license to cheat, until they divorced. I know he has never cheated on me and I would love to find a way to his heart so he can get out of the past.


My early years were soul crushing too. Alcoholic abusive mother, divorced parents, didn't see my dad for many years until my mom was getting sick. Moved to my dad and step-mom, they kicked us kids out all before we graduated. I was in my senior year of H.S. when they kicked me out. Then my dad cheatedon my step-mom and was bragging to me about it and eventually I confirmed my step-sisters suspicion of my dads affair.

The last thing my dad told me was that I was no longer his son. He died a couple years later.

The point I am trying to make is my past doesn't give me the right to treat my wife the way that I do. Even though 95+ % of the time I am the perfect husband.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Saylavee- I came here to TAM thinking that all my marriage issues was because of what my wife doesn't do. Now although its taken about a year on being here, I see so much more of it comes from me. I may make it hard for my wife to love me. Does that seem crazy?

Yes, My wife has never been the romantic type.She doesn't care if I buy her flower for V.Day , doesn't want expensive jewerly or fancy clothes. She doesn't hang out at the beauty salon every week. I should feel grateful for that.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

Thank you for sharing. It's comforting to know that it's not just me experiencing this. I wish happiness and love for you and your wife.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Acorn said:


> Let's be reasonable, if you had orally satisfied your partner for eight years and he never reciprocated, you'd feel a bit neglected too.


:scratchhead:


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

saylavee said:


> sometimes there is not an option to leave, which is my case. no way out


I've been encouraging my wife to go back to work. Not really for the money..well a little maybe. I want her to be more independent, I never want her to feel trapped, I want to make sure she has a way out if she feels the need to do that.

If you want out, Do you have a family member to stay with?

I will almost guarentee that if your husband knew you had a place to stay and you had your bags packed, his attitude would change. Although that may be tempoary though.

He really has to accept that he has issues and to find a pathway to help himself through books or other means being that he doesn't want IC.


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## saylavee (Feb 14, 2013)

No, there's no one I can stay with and I'm working from home, which is helping greatly. We have a legal situation that we must deal with next month. Once we're through that, I hope we can get on the same page and move forward.


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## Kylie84 (May 4, 2012)

I really don't understand your home situation. WHY can't you leave? Even just to put some distance between you untill he goes for councelling?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Saylavee, welcome to the TAM forum. Many of the behaviors you describe -- the verbal abuse, temper tantrums, neediness, rapid flips between loving you and hating you, always being "The Victim," blame-shifting, and inability to trust -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. 

Of course, you are not able to diagnose your H's issues. Only professionals can do that. You nonetheless are fully capable of spotting the red flags for BPD (or any other PD) if you take time to learn what warning signs to look for. There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, extreme sensitivity to criticism, and deep anger.


saylavee said:


> my husband has a lot of painful issues from his childhood


If he has strong BPD traits, he likely experienced emotional trauma before the age of five. A recent study of BPDers (pub. 2008) found that 70% of them reported being abused or abandoned in childhood.


> he says he hates me and regrets marrying me. ...it's not the first time he's said it and he usually ends up saying he didn't mean it.


The primary hallmark of a BPDer is emotional instability. It will be evident in the way a BPDer can flip -- in just a few seconds -- from loving you to devaluing or hating you. Then, a few hours or days later, he can flip back just as quickly. 

This instability also will be evident in frequent use of black-white thinking, wherein the BPDer will categorize everyone as "all good" (i.e., "with me") or "all bad" (i.e., "against me"). And a BPDer will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just a few seconds -- based solely on a minor comment or infraction. There is no grey area in which to categorize people. So they all are shoehorned into black and white boxes.


> my problem is the fact that he really does mean it [i.e., that he hates me].


If he has strong BPD traits, yes, he likely does mean it when he is saying he hates you. Due to the black-white thinking, a BPDer is either in touch with his loving feelings toward you or with his hatred toward you. Hence, when he is hating you, he usually is completely out of touch with his good feelings. 

Significantly, this does NOT mean a BPDer doesn't love you. Rather, it only means he is completely out of touch with those feelings because, in his mind, they are "split off" from his conscious mind. This occurs because BPDers are _extremely_ uncomfortable with mixed feelings, ambiguities, and uncertainties.

The result is that BPDers typically flip back and forth between loving and hating their spouses -- sometimes pushing them away and other times pulling them back. As to your belief that he may have permanently started hating you, yes, that is possible. At some point, it is not uncommon for a BPDer to permanently start "splitting you black" instead of flipping between splitting you black and white. Yet, if he is a BPDer, he most likely will start splitting you white again.


> when we met, he fell in love immediately and we were married within 3 months.


That is very common with BPDers. Indeed, it is not uncommon for a BPDer to declare within two weeks that he loves you and believes you are his "soul mate." Unlike the rest of us, BPDers do not intellectually challenge the infatuation they experience. They accept such intense feelings as accurately reflecting reality. And when the start feeling intense hatred toward you, they believe those feeling MUST be valid as well.


> he's always been faithful, a hard worker, enjoys helping with the cooking and cleaning. during those times, it was easy for me to think he really loved me.


If he has strong BPD traits, he likely does really love you and is in touch with that love during those periods. Yet, because a BPDer's emotional development is frozen at about age four, he will lack the ability to love you in a mature manner. It is not the mature, stable love that is required to sustain a closer LTR like a marriage.


> I thought he was my knight in shining armor and I was happy to be swept up in the romance and excitement.


BPDers are VERY easy to fall in love with. If your H is a BPDer, he would have mirrored your personality so perfectly during the courtship that you BOTH would have been convinced you had met your soul mate. The mirroring would be apparent in the way he adopted the best features of your personality and how he liked the activities that you enjoyed. BPDers do that mirroring not because they want to deceive you but, rather, because they have such weak self images that they must use someone else's strong personality to ground and center them.


> he expected perfection from me, even though I didn't know it. no one could have lived up to his ideal wife.


My BPDer exW did the same with me. She literally worshiped the ground I walked on. I was her savior. Sadly, that worshiping period lasts only about 6 months. As soon as the BPDer's infatuation evaporates, his two fears (abandonment and engulfment) will return.


> he refuses to think about counseling.


Because a BPDer is filled with shame and self loathing, his subconscious protects him from seeing "too much" of reality. One way of doing that is to believe that therapy is useless. It therefore is rare for a high functioning BPDer to willingly go to therapy -- and rarer still for a BPDer to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. Moreover, if you insist that he go to therapy -- as I did with my exW -- he likely will just play mind games with the therapist.


> I don't think anyone could make him feel the way he thinks he should. he would always find a reason to feel unloved and not a priority.


Yes, if he has strong BPD traits, he cannot believe you love him until he first learns how to love himself. Because that feeling of being unloved is so intense, his subconscious mind does its best to make sense out of it -- projecting the blame onto YOU. 

Because you haven't done anything (like cheating) that would justify such feelings, his subconscious latches on to two absurd explanations: the lack of BJs and lack of invitations to visit your house. I therefore agree with ComicBookLady, 3X, and Acorn that those allegations are simply rationalizations, not real reasons for hating you.

With BPDers, their feelings are so intense that they are absolutely convinced that they MUST be true. This is why it is common for a BPDer to make such absurd allegations that you will simply marvel that any adult is capable of saying such a thing while holding a straight face. My exW, for example, was convinced I was lying to her every week. Yet, when I would ask for a specific example of what I had lied about, she would go back ten years with an allegation about something that neither of us could possibly remember talking about.


> I just wish he could see that even though I'm not perfect, I love him more that anything in the world.


If he is a BPDer, he likely is incapable of believing anything you say -- because he cannot trust you. Emotionally unstable people know they cannot trust their own feelings and thoughts. Until they learn how to trust themselves, they are incapable of trusting their spouses for any extended period. 

Moreover, your love is a double-edge sword to a BPDer. Although he craves love and intimacy, he will feel engulfed when he gets it. This is why you cannot heal a BPDer by loving him. That is, your love hurts him as much as it helps him. Hence, trying to heal a BPDer by loving him is as counterproductive as trying to heal a burn victim by hugging him.


> we have long talks and very open discussions. he keeps going back over the past and recalls every incident that I let him down.


If he is a BPDer, that behavior is to be expected. Because BPDers are always looking for frequent validation of their being "The Victim," they will meticulously maintain a list of every infraction (real or imagined) that you ever did. And they will pull out the whole list on every argument, no matter how small. This practice -- of bringing up everything in the near and distant past, including the kitchen sink -- is called "kitchen sinking."


> I've tried giving him oral from time to time, but he pushes me away.... I think he loves being miserable.


No, if he is a BPDer, he loves to create sufficient drama to continually validate his false self image of being "The Victim." One way of doing this is to always put you in a lose-lose situation (e.g., lose if you give the BJ and lose if you don't). In that way, you become "The Perpetrator," the bane of his existence and the cause of every misfortune -- thereby making him "The Victim." 

But he doesn't have to be "miserable" to accomplish the same thing. There is one other way to validate his status as victim. That occurs when you take on the role of "The Savior." Obviously, while you are in the role of saving him, he must be "The Victim" who is in need of being saved. But, of course, he really does not want to be saved but, rather, only validated as a victim. That's why, during your courtship period when he viewed you as savior, he would jump right back into the water every time you pulled him from the raging seas. 

Significantly, your days as "The Savior" will continue to occasionally occur, on those days when he is splitting you white. Yet, if he is a BPDer, as the years go by he will become increasingly resentful of your inability to make him happy and to feel loved -- an impossible task. And he will become increasingly fearful of your decision to abandon such an unlovable man. This is why it is common, after about 12 to 15 years, for a BPDer to preemptively abandon his spouse before she has the chance to do it to him. My exW, for example, walked out on me after 15 years.


> I'm searching to find the right words to get him to look inside himself.... It's important to me that he knows that I love him.


If he is a BPDer, finding the "right words" doesn't help one bit. Nor does finding the "right actions." Doing and saying exactly the right thing will not convince him. The problem, if he is a BPDer, is that he is incapable of trusting you enough to BELIEVE what you are saying and doing. 

I therefore encourage you to see a psychologist to obtain a professional opinion when you can afford doing so. Meanwhile, I would suggest you read about BPD traits to see if most sound very familiar to you. 

Importantly, I don't know whether your H has most BPD traits at a strong level. I've never even met the man. I nonetheless am confident that you can learn to spot any strong BPD traits (i.e., red flags) that are present. An easy place to start reading is my description of such traits in my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Saylavee.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Dang Uptown, no sugar coating there! You describe a monster there... The ultimate Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde there. I hate to say this about me, but I see this in myself.

Saylavee-- All that I know of myself and why I believe I am the way that I am, I still have my Mr. Hyde moments. Your husband may NEVER change. I am working so hard on this myself. Many times I catch myself from saying something hurtful. Just a syllable may come out and I will stop myself...take a deep breath...and either change the subject or try to think of something nice to say. I really have to bite my tongue. Even when I know I am right. 

One time I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken. That's the way my mind works.

I didn't read if you had children or not. Nobody deserves to be treated like he treats you.

*Please follow the advise from Uptown* You can't help your husband, but you can help yourself deal with what he does to you.

Just for fun...look at some of my initial post from about a year or so ago... It's all about my wife not loving me enough...not enough sex... not enough help around the house...her not saying I Love You...I now realize I play a huge role in this myself. It's more about how I interpret her words.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Already Gone said:


> Dang Uptown, no sugar coating there! You describe a monster there...


AG, if I did describe "a monster" as you say, I did a very poor job of describing BPDers. Generally, they are NOT monsters and they are NOT evil. Most BPDers I've met -- and I've met a lot of them -- are generous and caring individuals. Indeed, two of the most beloved women in the world -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- had full blown BPD, if their biographers are to be believed. 

If I had to chose a single term to describe a BPDer, it certainly would not be "monster." Rather, it would be "traumatized child." If that truth is hard to see, it is only because the BPDers we end up marrying have the intelligence, knowledge, cunning, and body strength of full grown adults. Their emotional development, however, is stuck at the level of a four year old. It is stuck there (psychologists believe) because the childhood trauma interrupted the child's emotional development.

AG, if I were to characterize BPDers as monsters, I would be doing a great disservice not only to the BPDers but also to the hundreds of millions of "Nons" -- like me -- who have fallen in love with them. As I said above, BPDers are very VERY easy to fall in love with. Their problem is not being unlovable or being "monsters" but, rather, being emotionally immature and unstable. 

Indeed, I generally find the high functioning BPDers -- and the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning -- to be a lot more fun to be around than us Nons (i.e., nonBPDers). Typically, they exhibit a spontaneity, purity of emotions, vulnerability, and warmth of expression that otherwise is only found in young children. 

I therefore find it difficult to believe that anyone who enjoys being around young children would not enjoy going to a party full of BPDers. As long as you don't try to be a really close friend to them, it is very unlikely you will trigger their two fears (abandonment and engulfment). This is why I enjoy having a number of BPDers as casual friends. Moreover, I especially treasure my opportunities to correspond on the Internet with self-aware BPDers, all of whom are rare jewels IMO. The "self awares" are so rare that I've never knowingly met one in my private life.


> I hate to say this about me, but I see this in myself.


AG, you should be seeing all nine of the BPD traits in yourself. We all should. Every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. That is, we are all "BPDers" to some degree. This is why -- like all other personality disorders -- BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." 

Indeed, during childhood, we all behave like BPDers 24/7 and, during our teen years, the hormone changes (together with our immaturity) cause many of us to continue behaving like BPDers for several more years. This is why psychologists generally refuse to diagnose the disorder in anyone younger than 18. Even during our adult years, we "Nons" will occasionally get temporary flareups of our BPD traits, with the result that we may behave like BPDers for several months (as can happen during pregnancy) -- or even for a year or two (as can happen with postpartum hormone changes, drug abuse, or a brain injury).

The issue, then, is not whether you exhibit BPD traits. Of course you do. Everyone does occasionally. Rather, the issue is whether you exhibit most of them at a strong and persistent level. These traits become a problem only when they are so strong and persistent that they distort your perception of other peoples' intentions, thereby undermining your ability to sustain close LTRs.


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