# Midlife Crisis or Really the End??



## SandyBeaches

I have been married so long and so much has happened, I don't know where to begin to tell you why I would even be considering a separation! 

I asked for a separation a year a go due to my H being controlling, manipulative, & jealous. I felt like I was living with a roommate and that I had fallen out of love. 

When I told him I wanted a separation, he toatally changed!!!

He IMEDIATELY wanted to go dancing with me. (We had only danced twice in 25years!!) I mean he asked the very next day after I told him I wanted a separation!

He used to get upset if I went over to my best friend's house but over night he is encouraging me to go there! (That has lessened some over the year)

He only bought me flowers when we were dating and when I mentioned that in passing as point I was making about a show of him caring for me at the beginning of the separation... He hasn't stopped buying be flowers every week sometimes 2 or 3 times a week for the past year!!

So what's my problem right?????

Well, here is my problem....

ME!! I still feel the same way!! I feel like I love him but I am no longer in love with my husband! and before anyone jumps in with... are you seeing anyone else or are you having an affair? The answer is absolutely NO! I am NOT!

I am not with another man. I am not looking for another man! I just don't believe I want to be with my H any longer and if that means I'm alone for a while, then I'm ok with that. We have been married for 25 years! I went straight from my mom's house to living with my H. Living by myself doesn't sound like a horrible idea!!

My H can still be pretty controlling (he knows this and he is working on this). He can be a jealous man but he has gotten better over the years. Several years ago he had anher management issues that he has truly improved on. All of these things have played a factor in damaging my love for my H. I have some deep emotional scars that I have had trouble letting go. My H is fully aware of all of this. 

I know he can sense the saddness in me and the distance. He is scared that one day I will just tell him I'm done and leave. That is no way for either of us to live and it is truly unfair to just keep him hanging on a leash. 

My husband tells me we can work through all of this and that I am just going through a midlife crisis. I am 42, he is 48.

Any advice is appreciated!


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## LongWalk

Does being intimate with him cause revulsion?


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## SandyBeaches

Not exactly. But sex with my H is complicated and has been for most if not all of our marriage. But it has gotten worse over the past 5 years. 

Before I met him he had a groin injury in the Army and that has made it to where he has had problems in the bedroom pretty much from day one. The problems got so bad that sexual intercorse was almost non-existant for over 3 years! I had asked and asked for him to see a doctor about the issues. He had different reasons for not seeing a doctor. ranging from too much money to whatever... you get the idea.

Anyways, Last year, I say the word separation and of course, he wants to go see the doctor about his issues in the bedroom.

Well, viagra seems to help. It doesn't fix everything, he still has minor issues but at least intercourse is possible most nights.

But now he wants to do it every night possible ( I work 3 nights a week, off 4 nights a week) and I.... well most nights....

I would rather just turn out the lights and go to sleep! I had gone 3 years without intercourse (we used toys when he felt like he needed to please me). So, intercourse now for me, just well, just doesn't excite me!


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## EasyPartner

Sandy,

You can call it a midlife crisis or whatever. It doesn't matter.

What matters is, you fell out of love with your husband and are contemplating to leave him. The WAW scenario.

*Do the following statements ring any bells?
*
You & dh have been married for such a long time and you got lost in work, maybe kids, every day routine etc and you kinda forgot to be husband & wife.

Dh is not a bad guy, he even has a lot of good qualities but certain traits (in casu controlling, jealous, anger issues, ... any others?) were left unadressed for years and they chipped away at the love you felt for him.

Resentment was building. It's easier to be resentful than to resolve or even tolerate the behaviours in question in a loving manner.

You started playing with the idea of separating, long before you told dh (who was oblivious to your changing). You played nice, stopped nagging but every bad behaviour from then on tipped the scales in favor of leaving.

To justify this in your head (because you're hurt and angry but still feeling sad, selfish and guilty somehow), it was imperative that dh's good qualities were minimized and the bad ones were amplified. This is called negative rewriting the history of the marriage and is a very effective way for falling out of love. Being intimate may indeed have caused revulsion from that point on.

The stuff he's doing now, well, it's too little & too late.

So now you're here asking for advice, may be hoping for some YOLO bs, leave him already because you deserve so much better, he's not really going to change etc.

If any of this makes sense to you, I'll get back. It's noon and I'm hungry


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## SandyBeaches

EasyPartner said:


> Sandy,
> 
> You can call it a midlife crisis or whatever. It doesn't matter.
> 
> What matters is, you fell out of love with your husband and are contemplating to leave him. The WAW scenario.
> 
> 
> *Do the following statements ring any bells?
> *
> You & dh have been married for such a long time and you got lost in work, maybe kids, every day routine etc and you kinda forgot to be husband & wife.
> 
> Dh is not a bad guy, he even has a lot of good qualities but certain traits (in casu controlling, jealous, anger issues, ... any others?) were left unadressed for years and they chipped away at the love you felt for him.
> 
> Resentment was building. It's easier to be resentful than to resolve or even tolerate the behaviours in question in a loving manner.
> 
> You started playing with the idea of separating, long before you told dh (who was oblivious to your changing). You played nice, stopped nagging but every bad behaviour from then on tipped the scales in favor of leaving.
> 
> To justify this in your head (because you're hurt and angry but still feeling sad, selfish and guilty somehow), it was imperative that dh's good qualities were minimized and the bad ones were amplified. This is called negative rewriting the history of the marriage and is a very effective way for falling out of love. Being intimate may indeed have caused revulsion from that point on.
> 
> The stuff he's doing now, well, it's too little & too late.
> 
> So now you're here asking for advice, may be hoping for some YOLO bs, leave him already because you deserve so much better, he's not really going to change etc.
> 
> If any of this makes sense to you, I'll get back. It's noon and I'm hungry


I don't know what the WAW scenrio is.

I don't know what YOLO is but I get your drift. 

I'm not looking for the leave him, you deserve better answer. I am actually thinking more along the lines of he deserves to be fully loved. Something I belive I can no longer give him.

As far as the rest of your post.... YES it pretty much nailed it!!


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## EasyPartner

Sorry about my last remark, it was actually meant as a provocation. 

Your answer is classic though... by leaving you will do HIM a favor?? How is that not rational justification for you leaving right 

WAW = walkaway wife (syndrome) and it's destroying marriages by the thousands. Been on the receiving end of one myself.

On the plus side, it's well documented so you may want to read up.

On the down side, it's a real b*tch to get straight again.

But odds are better than average in your case, I think. For example, you came on TAM to get some advice. If you can do that, you may be open to get some more help, like MC.

And you put your husband in limbo for a year now and he's still around and even trying his best. Didn't give up on you yet. Another plus.

Sandy, I'm not a qualified therapist so I can't tell what the best approach is in your circumstances. But please read some books, see if you can go into MC, if you're both open for it.

Talk to your husband about your newly found understandings about what happened and what you guys can do about it. Hell, laugh about it together if you can. Relax.

Act as if you love him, if you can. Mirror the actions you would like to see from him to make you feel loved.

Relax. Focus on his positive actions, don't disparage.

This may take a while, so be patient. You hold the keys to this.

Best wishes. You guys can pull it off if you both choose to do so.


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## SandyBeaches

Ok I have heard the term Walk Away Wife before in the past last year, just getting used to the acronyms. 

I have been trying play the being in love with my husband role for the past year. Going out on dates, giving and receiving gifts, cards. Sending little notes of affections.

The thing is...

For him, it's real, for me... it still feels like an act.


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## Omar174

SandyBeaches said:


> Ok I have heard the term Walk Away Wife before in the past last year, just getting used to the acronyms.
> 
> I have been trying play the being in love with my husband role for the past year. Going out on dates, giving and receiving gifts, cards. Sending little notes of affections.
> 
> The thing is...
> 
> For him, it's real, for me... it still feels like an act.


A lot of folks don't like the idea of a trial separation but I think it may help you. 

I would separate for a time with ZERO contact. If you find yourself missing him, start "dating" him again. 

If you don't miss him and you find yourself very happy on your own, you know what to do.


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## Alpha

So get a lawyer, file for divorce, rack up the bills, and suck him dry. Let him support you the rest of your life while you lead the life you want. That's the plan isn't it?

If you're going to leave, have some respect, don't take one dime from him and support yourself.


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## Omar174

Alpha said:


> So get a lawyer, file for divorce, rack up the bills, and suck him dry. Let him support you the rest of your life while you lead the life you want. That's the plan isn't it?
> 
> If you're going to leave, have some respect, don't take one dime from him and support yourself.


Where the hell did that come from? Do you know something we don't?


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## Counterfit

Alpha said:


> ....................If you're going to leave, have some respect, don't take one dime from him and support yourself.


OH SURE.....Like that will ever happen.........

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

This is the typical "I love you but I am not in love with you" bored housewife cash-out routine. The Family Court System will essentially wipe her husband out.........and yes that is the overall plan.


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## SandyBeaches

Alpha said:


> So get a lawyer, file for divorce, rack up the bills, and suck him dry. Let him support you the rest of your life while you lead the life you want. That's the plan isn't it?
> 
> If you're going to leave, have some respect, don't take one dime from him and support yourself.


First of all, I wouldn't take one dime from him. Money is not what I am after. I make more money than he does. We rent our house. Have 2 old cars that we each own out right. Our kids are grown. I would support myself. This isn't about me sucking him dry financially. But nice try.


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## SandyBeaches

Omar174 said:


> A lot of folks don't like the idea of a trial separation but I think it may help you.
> 
> I would separate for a time with ZERO contact. If you find yourself missing him, start "dating" him again.
> 
> If you don't miss him and you find yourself very happy on your own, you know what to do.


I have thought of this and a year ago, this is exactly what I proposed to my H. He would not do the zero contact thing at all! kept coming by, called all the time, never would stay away. He couldn't afford to live on his own much longer and we ended up living together again. I'm just not sure him moving back in was a good thing for either of us.


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## SandyBeaches

Counterfit said:


> OH SURE.....Like that will ever happen.........
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> This is the typical "I love you but I am not in love with you" bored housewife cash-out routine. The Family Court System will essentially wipe her husband out.........and yes that is the overall plan.


In case you don't see the post from earlier, that is not the plan. I work 40 - 60 hrs as a nurse while my H is a pizza delivery driver who works 25hrs a week. If anything, I will end up supporting him! So, lets just get that straight!


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## sylviaslife

SandyBeaches,
Unfortunately, you have to take the good with the bad here. It seems that many people that have been hurt in their own particular circumstance have the need to assume that someone else's story is the same as theirs.
I got divorced just shy of 25 years of marriage, and for most of it I was unhappy. I won't go into all the details about my situation here, but just wanted to say that I do believe that it is very possible to fall out of love with someone when you don't get what you need emotionally from them for many years. 
Then, when they realize that you really are serious about wanting out, they completely change and you are just supposed to get over it and fall right back into love again. 
I also tend to think that sometimes there are other factors at work...we make the wrong decisions about who we marry, he changes, you change, etc. 
I can tell you that it took me years to make the decision to finally leave, and I have never regretted it for a minute. WAW? Maybe. Happier life? YES!


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## SandyBeaches

sylviaslife said:


> SandyBeaches,
> Unfortunately, you have to take the good with the bad here. It seems that many people that have been hurt in their own particular circumstance have the need to assume that someone else's story is the same as theirs.
> I got divorced just shy of 25 years of marriage, and for most of it I was unhappy. I won't go into all the details about my situation here, but just wanted to say that I do believe that it is very possible to fall out of love with someone when you don't get what you need emotionally from them for many years.
> Then, when they realize that you really are serious about wanting out, they completely change and you are just supposed to get over it and fall right back into love again.
> I also tend to think that sometimes there are other factors at work...we make the wrong decisions about who we marry, he changes, you change, etc.
> I can tell you that it took me years to make the decision to finally leave, and I have never regretted it for a minute. WAW? Maybe. Happier life? YES!


Thank you for your post. I wasn't expecting a welcome mat coming here. So, no harm done with the earlier posts. I can take most anything. I just didn't want people to think I was a housewife wanting to take my H for all his money cause that is so far from the truth. 

I have had years of emotional abuse from him and yes he has done a great job of changing over this past year. The thing is, I have told him I am un happy before and have wanted to leave before and each time he has changed for the better at least some... enogh for me to not leave, enough for me to want to stay and and keep trying. Only to watch him revert back to his old ways that made me want to leave again. 

I would call him on this and he would say, "I slipped up, give me a second chance."

Why does it always come down to me saying I want to leave before he all of the sudden "sees the light" and decides to change???

Yes!! THIS TIME It has been a year!! That is a long time! But I'm afraid as soon as I let up and truly expect to be happy, he will revert back to his old ways again.


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## clipclop2

The lack of sex would certainly make maintaining a connection difficult. Add the other things and I get it.

I'm guessing the definition of a WAW is because there is no one else. WAWs happen over a long period of time. They only seem sudden to the husband.

If you are really done, pull the trigger. 

A lot of women can't rekindle love once it is gone. I am one of them. It only takes so many licks to get to the center of a Charm's Tootsy Pop. No different for a marriage t have spelled it out and spelled it out time and again.

If he believed you in the first place you wouldn't be here now. And if you got back in, how long would his new behavior last?

Both men and women wonder that once this situation occurs... Only men seem more willing to try again. Women, not so much. Once our capacity to try has been spent, it is gone. Some women take longer... Codependent, been for so long they don't know how to listen to their mind and heart... 

If you are done, don't drag this out.


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## SandyBeaches

clipclop2 said:


> The lack of sex would certainly make maintaining a connection difficult. Add the other things and I get it.
> 
> I'm guessing the definition of a WAW is because there is no one else. WAWs happen over a long period of time. They only seem sudden to the husband.
> 
> If you are really done, pull the trigger.
> 
> A lot of women can't rekindle love once it is gone. I am one of them. It only takes so many licks to get to the center of a Charm's Tootsy Pop. No different for a marriage t have spelled it out and spelled it out time and again.
> 
> If he believed you in the first place you wouldn't be here now. And if you got back in, how long would his new behavior last?
> 
> Both men and women wonder that once this situation occurs... Only men seem more willing to try again. Women, not so much. Once our capacity to try has been spent, it is gone. Some women take longer... Codependent, been for so long they don't know how to listen to their mind and heart...
> 
> If you are done, don't drag this out.


Your "If you are done, don't drag this out" statment is what has been playing through my head for quite some time now. 

My H is the one that seems to believe we have worked our way through worse and we can work all this out. I am not so sure. 

I feel like I am simply done and this is why I believe I would literally be doing my husband a favor by leaving at this point. Because by me staying... I am keeping us both is a loveless marriage.

My bestfriend actually told me a few weeks ago that she feels sorry for my HUSBAND because he is trying so hard to give me everything I want and yet she knows I am not happy and she sees how unfair that is to HIM!

SOOOO... Tell me honestly... am I a cold hearted b*tch who should leave even though my H has litterally told me that I should NOT leave for the reason I have just described???


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## Omar174

SandyBeaches said:


> SOOOO... Tell me honestly... am I a cold hearted b*tch who should leave even though my H has litterally told me that I should NOT leave for the reason I have just described???


There are some angry people on here that will tell you yes, because they've probably been on the receiving end of a situation like yours. 

But I don't think it makes you a b1tch at all. It's a simple matter of you wanting to be happy, and we all deserve to be happy.


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## turnera

IIWY, I would set up 6 months of MC with him and tell him he has to go or you're moving out. GIVE your marriage those 6 months before making a decision. Do the homework the MC gives you, read HNHN and do the LB/EN questionnaires and see what comes of it, and after 6 months, see if anything has changed. If it hasn't, then you can walk away with a clear conscience.


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## SandyBeaches

turnera said:


> IIWY, I would set up 6 months of MC with him and tell him he has to go or you're moving out. GIVE your marriage those 6 months before making a decision. Do the homework the MC gives you, read HNHN and do the LB/EN questionnaires and see what comes of it, and after 6 months, see if anything has changed. If it hasn't, then you can walk away with a clear conscience.


I have read HN/HN last year as well as 5 Love languages, I believe is the other book. My husband wanted me to read those to books last year when I wanted the separation last year. He also started reading a book called No more Mr. Nice Guy. Interesting that people on here are suggesting some of the same books.

I have suggested MC to him many times. He says he will do it but he says we don't have the money and wants us to try some sort of "on line" free MC???


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## SandyBeaches

Omar174 said:


> There are some angry people on here that will tell you yes, because they've probably been on the receiving end of a situation like yours.
> 
> But I don't think it makes you a b1tch at all. It's a simple matter of you wanting to be happy, and we all deserve to be happy.


Thank you for that....

I do feel selfish sticking around if my true feelings of being in love with him will never come back. How is that fair to either of us??


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## turnera

So what happened when you incorporated the tenets of HNHN?


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## SandyBeaches

I don't know if this is answering your question, but I am trying...

My H tried and is trying to be so much more affecetionate in our marriage. I allow him to be affectionate but the feeling is not there for me like it used to be. Used to be I craved and initiated the contact, he was the one who withdrew from the contact. Now, It is the opposite.

I know this is just one example but it is pretty much the same on most of all aspects of HN/HN. 

With the 5 love languages he found that he likes gifts, so he decided I should give him gifts and he REMINDS me to give him gifts at least each month. He gives me a gift at least twice a month. I do not look for the gifts nor really desire the gifts and I feels kind of resentful that he basically guilts me into buying him gifts. I don't mind giving him things I think he would like, I just don't want to feel like I am obligated to do so.


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## meson

SandyBeaches said:


> I have been married so long and so much has happened, I don't know where to begin to tell you why I would even be considering a separation!
> 
> I asked for a separation a year a go due to my H being controlling, manipulative, & jealous. I felt like I was living with a roommate and that I had fallen out of love.
> 
> When I told him I wanted a separation, he toatally changed!!!
> 
> 
> 
> So what's my problem right?????
> 
> Well, here is my problem....
> 
> ME!! I still feel the same way!! I feel like I love him but I am no longer in love with my husband!


I fell out of love with my wife about the age you are now. Similar to the reasons quoted by Easypartner. My marriage was younger than yours then but it's about 25 years now. The short of it is that I am in love with her again. I'm glad I didn't give up and walk away which is what I also considered at one time. Our relationship is so much better and rewarding for each of us. 

I decided to give it one last try before giving up. It wasn't just sticking around but I worked on myself and what I wanted from her and attempted to solve our major problem (for us it was toxic communication and disrespect). Then I worked on reviving the activities that brought us together after some of the hurt had need healed. It took awhile (2+ years) but I fell in love with her again and she with me. 


So try asking what you want from the marriage and try to achieve it by taking action rather than waiting. By doing so you may find the high of being in love again. You may find no change in feelings but at least you can say you actively tried a variety of things before you walk away. If he sees you trying but it just doesn't happen for you then he will know you at least did more than wait.

I know how you feel, I've been there. What I did was ask what could I do to improve my outlook on life and rekindle the love for my wife. I was successful and you could be as well.


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## SandyBeaches

meson said:


> I fell out of love with my wife about the age you are now. Similar to the reasons quoted by Easypartner. My marriage was younger than yours then but it's about 25 years now. The short of it is that I am in love with her again. I'm glad I didn't give up and walk away which is what I also considered at one time. Our relationship is so much better and rewarding for each of us.
> 
> I decided to give it one last try before giving up. It wasn't just sticking around but I worked on myself and what I wanted from her and attempted to solve our major problem (for us it was toxic communication and disrespect). Then I worked on reviving the activities that brought us together after some of the hurt had need healed. It took awhile (2+ years) but I fell in love with her again and she with me.
> 
> 
> So try asking what you want from the marriage and try to achieve it by taking action rather than waiting. By doing so you may find the high of being in love again. You may find no change in feelings but at least you can say you actively tried a variety of things before you walk away. If he sees you trying but it just doesn't happen for you then he will know you at least did more than wait.
> 
> I know how you feel, I've been there. What I did was ask what could I do to improve my outlook on life and rekindle the love for my wife. I was successful and you could be as well.


Thank you for you insight. I appreciate a good ending to a story similar to mine.

It would be nice to think my story could end happily as well 

I agree that I have been negativly re-writting my marriage history to a point. And seeing all the good he has been doind this past year as too little too late. I can't seem to get out of that mind set. 

I'm still in the house and still in the marriage... Not because I'm too scared to leave or because I am trying to stick it to my husband as some have suggested here. I'm still in this marriage hanging on for the same reason I fought so hard so many many years that my H was not fighting for our marriage... because I still am holding desperately for a glimmer of hope that maybe my love for him truly will come back!


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## clipclop2

Meson is pretty cool. What he did is incredible.

But like I said earlier, guys seem more willing to give it another go than women. We can discuss why that is if you like and try to find what it is in your case that makes you believe you are DONE done if you like.

I don't really subscribe to the idea that we all deserve to be happy. But, facing facts, there is little chance of him being happy unless you begin to lie about how you feel. Do no harm sometimes has to be modified to do the least harm.

Your H is clueless if he is forcing his love language on you. Oy!

If you are sincere that there is no one else in any way, shape, or form -- no one that tempted you that you resisted after a short dalliance or EA, no unintended one nighter, no chats on Facebook or any other social networks, and no one on the horizon that you vowed not to violate your vows for but thst has prompted or encouaged or asccelersted this DONE done feeling in you... I think facing this head on is warranted.

If there is any affection left that can't be attributed to guilt then reconsider. I can't place duty and guilt in the same category so if you feel a sense of duty explore it because not doing so will adversely affect your relationship with yourself.

But no, when it is too little too late, you aren't a cold hearted anything calling it a day.

What is, is. He will have to face his unwillingness to address these issues and accept defeat. Being a jerk suited him fine while you would put up with it. That's on him.


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## meson

SandyBeaches said:


> I'm still in the house and still in the marriage... Not because I'm too scared to leave or because I am trying to stick it to my husband as some have suggested here. I'm still in this marriage hanging on for the same reason I fought so hard so many many years that my H was not fighting for our marriage... because I still am holding desperately for a glimmer of hope that maybe my love for him truly will come back!


My point is that one does not wait for a glimmer of hope but rather does bonding activities that will nurture the bond between you both. Love is a complicated set of reactions in the brain that can be encouraged or discouraged. You need to reassociate good and pleasant thoughts with your husband rather than the negative. It's hard to do. 

I started dating my wife again. We did things that were active that were exciting and over time the love developed again. My first few attempts didn't work and made me feel worse for awhile but my wife saw that I was trying and her attitude and responses changed which led to better experiences later. It took time but I worked on myself first. It might not work for you but if it doesn't then you know you tried your best.

For more on the chemistry of love see the link on Fog below.


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## meson

clipclop2 said:


> Meson is pretty cool. What he did is incredible.
> 
> But like I said earlier, guys seem more willing to give it another go than women. We can discuss why that is if you like and try to find what it is in your case that makes you believe you are DONE done if you like.


Thanks for the compliment. Men and women are different in this respect. I think women feel the loss of connection sooner and more keenly than men. Men often feel it when the sex starts to dwindle. The problem is that when a woman starts to work on it the guy thinks its all fine and doesn't yet detect the issues. I have seen post after post here about how she says a, b, c and the husband doesn't change or do anything. It is at these points where you feeling disappear. You look at you spouse and you feel nothing. You know you could walk away and not come back. And as we have seen here before they often walk away and don't. 

Something is keeping her from going. I think she can discover it and make the old desire grow if indeed she really loved him in the past.


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## turnera

Let me go back to HNHN. I'm going to assume you both filled out the Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires. If you haven't, then you haven't really done much to fix you marriage, now have you?

So what are his top 5 ENs? In what ways are you meeting them on a daily basis? Give specific examples.

What are your top 5 LBs that he said you do that make him unhappy? What have you done to eliminate these habits from your daily life? Give specific examples.

Notice I'm not asking you how HE is doing these things for YOU. That's not relevant yet.


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## clipclop2

Meson, you are right that a wife's eventual disconnect results in her no longer complaining. He thinks things are better than ever while she is planning her escape.

There are men who do the same thing, generally once the kids are out. It looks very much the same way from an outsider's perspective but yeah, the woman felt something was up because generally, men get active outside the home while they are distancing. Working late, sports, unfortunate bad behaviour that shows passive-aggressive contempt.

You worked on yourself. But your wife eventually responded. You upper your desirability doing so. And let's face it. You weren't really done. Done is done.

What's your husband's physical appeal, OP? How would you feel if another woman wanted him? Or if he started a relationship, emotional or otherwise?


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## meson

clipclop2 said:


> You worked on yourself. But your wife eventually responded. You upper your desirability doing so. And let's face it. You weren't really done. Done is done.
> 
> What's your husband's physical appeal, OP? How would you feel if another woman wanted him? Or if he started a relationship, emotional or otherwise?


You are right, I was not done. That's the whole point to my posts here is that being "not IN love" does not necessarily equal "Done". It might be done but it might just be apathetically neutral. Attempting to do something to determine the difference is what I recommend.

And I know done. Thirty years ago I was engaged to someone who had an EA turned PA. After the initial shock and disbelief I was "DONE". I've had not further contact with her despite her attempts to reconnect after her boy toy marriage ended in divorce. I know done.

I don't think the OP is done. I think she needs help finding the way out of the malaise of indifference. She might mine done but this will help prove it or not. I only know that I am thankful that I tried because the best years of my live have been afterwards. I didn't know that then but I suspect that I would be having nagging doubts had I walked out.


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## indiecat

I vote for a trial separation. Divorce is much more painful than you realize, and a trial will give you a chance to analyze how your feel.


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## richard_73

SandyBeaches said:


> Thank you for you insight. I appreciate a good ending to a story similar to mine.
> 
> It would be nice to think my story could end happily as well
> 
> I agree that I have been negativly re-writting my marriage history to a point. And seeing all the good he has been doind this past year as too little too late. I can't seem to get out of that mind set.
> 
> I'm still in the house and still in the marriage... Not because I'm too scared to leave or because I am trying to stick it to my husband as some have suggested here. I'm still in this marriage hanging on for the same reason I fought so hard so many many years that my H was not fighting for our marriage... because I still am holding desperately for a glimmer of hope that maybe my love for him truly will come back!


I'm in the same situation with my wife. She has become bored with things and feels directionless! Every little thing I do seems to drive her nuts. Totally intolerant and unreasonable. Now I see it for what it really is! 
But she is almost out the door. My chances are looking less than 1% after a great life together.
I will ask that she reads this thread. 
I really hope you two can get it together and feel the love again.
Opinions vary but I believe a good marriage is worth trying anything to save.

I think it's good your taking the time.

Good luck

R


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## SandyBeaches

indiecat said:


> I vote for a trial separation. Divorce is much more painful than you realize, and a trial will give you a chance to analyze how your feel.


I sort of did try a trial separation a year ago. 

A year ago, I told my husband I wanted a 1 year separation. I thought we needed (or at least I needed space). He told me he would give me that. He moved out of the house. ( I offered to be the one to move out since I was the one asking for the separation but he said he would since he couldn't afford to stay in the house on his own). Anyways, he moved out but would not stay away. He constantly came over to visit and was always asking to spend the night or to stay until late into the night. He called several times during the day and dropped in for visits multiple times. Eventually I gave in and he moved back in within just a very few months. It has been right at almost a year since I first asked for the 1 year separation and I never really got it. I am not blaming my husband. I should have been stronger and stuck to what I said. because now I just want to ask once again for what I asked for this same time last year. BUT I saw the hurt and the tears, the pain I caused him when I asked the last time. I just don't want to do that to him again. I don't want to see the pain in his eyes.

However, I want to be happy too, and right now, I can't honestly say I am.


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## SandyBeaches

turnera said:


> Let me go back to HNHN. I'm going to assume you both filled out the Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires. If you haven't, then you haven't really done much to fix you marriage, now have you?
> 
> So what are his top 5 ENs? In what ways are you meeting them on a daily basis? Give specific examples.
> 
> What are your top 5 LBs that he said you do that make him unhappy? What have you done to eliminate these habits from your daily life? Give specific examples.
> 
> Notice I'm not asking you how HE is doing these things for YOU. That's not relevant yet.


I went back and looked because I could not answer your questions. It has been a year since my husband and I read any of these book. Now I know why I couldn't answer your questions. I never read HN/HN. I read Love Busters and Love Language. My husband started to read HN/HN but says he stopped about half way through. We never did the questionaire.

We had a good weekend but some of it was tough. Lots of talking about issues but most of the talks went well.

I will post on my next post about what our talks were about because they were about 2 of our major issues that our present day issues.


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## Fabiovelli

Sounds like he is doing a lot of the things you were asking and hoping for. But they are not good enough for you???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SandyBeaches

Fabiovelli said:


> Sounds like he is doing a lot of the things you were asking and hoping for. But they are not good enough for you???
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I know that is how it sounds and to some degree that is very much the truth wich is why I feel very selfish in feeling unhappy still even after all of his efforts to change. I think it is a true example of too little to late. For MANY years I have fought very hard for this marriage to work. I have begged and pleaded with him and told him how unhappy I was. It wasn't until I was dead serious about the separation (either him or I leave). And what does it mean that he is doing everything I have asked and I'm still not happy??? Am I being selfish or have I truly fallen out of love with my husband?? This is the question. This is why I am here a TAM!


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## SandyBeaches

So, as I have stated before, my husband is a pizza delivery driver. He works 25hrs a week. He just finished doing a self paced on line study program to become a licensed tax preparer. His goal is to run his own tax service during tax season for 2015. This will be his 4th personal business he has done during our 25 years of marriage. one of them was successful for about 4 years. 2 didn't last more than a year. 1 didn't last 1 week! 

I am NOT against him having higher goals than being a pizza driver. Before he was a pizza driver, he was a manager for a well know restraunt and making as much money as I was as a nurse. We were both working many hours (around 50hrs a week) and he was un happy with his boss. He quit his job as a manager and started delivering pizzas just over 2 years ago working 35 - 40 hrs. I continued working the same 40 - 60 hrs a week. 

About 6 months ago he cut his hours to 25 hours a week and started doing the on line sel paced school for tax prep. Now the schooling is over but he has no intention of working any extra hours. This does not make me happy. When he dropped his hours to 25hrs a week, he requested his days off to match mine and his hours to match mine. He expects me home when he is home unless I am at work and if I ever make plans to be at my best friends house then I better be home by the time he is home. In the past he would be mad if I wasn't. Now he doesn't get mad, but he pouts and makes me feel guilty for not being home with him.

Another thing I am not pleased about, I just got a $2,000 bonus check from my hospital. He expects to use every bit of this money to spend on the start up of his tax business. He is estimating a need of $3,000 to start up his business. I told him we do not have that much money and he asked if I could pick up a few extra shifts at the hospital over the next 7 months!!

When I asked him what HIS plan was to help out the situation and if HE was WANTING to pick up any shifts. His response was in anger. He sais, "OH, I see where this is going. Now I see what you are upset about." But then he started talking about me going out with my friend and the time together issue and we never got back to money issues and so the next dayI told him I wanted to see a business plan like you would have to give to a banker if you were asking for a loan. He didn't like it but he made one. 

I am thinking about taking that business plan to a loan officer and getting their oppinion on it.


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## turnera

SandyBeaches said:


> Yes, I know that is how it sounds and to some degree that is very much the truth wich is why I feel very selfish in feeling unhappy still even after all of his efforts to change. I think it is a true example of too little to late. For MANY years I have fought very hard for this marriage to work. I have begged and pleaded with him and told him how unhappy I was. It wasn't until I was dead serious about the separation (either him or I leave). And what does it mean that he is doing everything I have asked and I'm still not happy??? Am I being selfish or have I truly fallen out of love with my husband?? This is the question. This is why I am here at TAM!


SB, what you describe is SO VERY common. So common that there are books and books written about it. Men are fine with just about any marriage, as long as they get sex. But they also happily let the wife carry the weight in the marriage - household duties, attention to feelings, taking care of the family members, etc. Many times men just aren't raised to understand that they have to give back in terms of affection and attention and emotion. So the wife goes into withdrawal, complains. But she's still meeting his needs so he's still happily oblivious. And her anger and discontent increase. Until one day, she finally can't take it anymore, being the one carrying most of the weight. And she either leaves, cheats, or threatens divorce. And suddenly - faced with loss of the cushy life he's got - he notices. But by then, the wife's love bank has dwindled to near empty. So when he starts doing what he should have been doing all along, she says so what?

You CAN get your feelings back, if he shows true understanding and consistent effort to make up for what he's done. So I will urge you not to just walk away at this point. This critical point which will tell you if he truly gets it, truly loves you and doesn't want to lose you - let him try to woo you back. At ONE point, you two loved each other and there was a reason for that. Don't throw that away just because you're finally getting the attention and not feeling 'it' right away.

Get HNHN out, read it together, discuss it, do the questionnaires, and do this journey together. Spend 15 hours a week together. See what happens.


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## turnera

SandyBeaches said:


> So, as I have stated before, my husband is a pizza delivery driver. He works 25hrs a week. He just finished doing a self paced on line study program to become a licensed tax preparer. His goal is to run his own tax service during tax season for 2015. This will be his 4th personal business he has done during our 25 years of marriage. one of them was successful for about 4 years. 2 didn't last more than a year. 1 didn't last 1 week!


If you read HNHN, you'll see that one of a woman's typical top 5 Emotional Needs is financial stability. Goes back to caveman days, it's in our DNA to need the man to be the one who 'protects' the family by providing, 'bringing home the meat.' He has showed you repeatedly that he is weak, that he puts his happiness ahead of yours. Now, you should have told him the truth about how you feel. But it's not too late to do that. My H has a lot of faults, but the one thing he's always done is take ANY job just to keep money coming in, no matter how humiliating. So I think you should give him some leeway that he is at least delivering pizzas. But you DO need to have this talk about how he makes you feel.


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## turnera

SandyBeaches said:


> Now he doesn't get mad, but he pouts and makes me feel guilty for not being home with him.
> 
> Another thing I am not pleased about, I just got a $2,000 bonus check from my hospital. He expects to use every bit of this money to spend on the start up of his tax business. He is estimating a need of $3,000 to start up his business. I told him we do not have that much money and he asked if I could pick up a few extra shifts at the hospital over the next 7 months!!
> 
> When I asked him what HIS plan was to help out the situation and if HE was WANTING to pick up any shifts. His response was in anger. He sais, "OH, I see where this is going. Now I see what you are upset about." But then he started talking about me going out with my friend and the time together issue and we never got back to money issues and so the next day I told him I wanted to see a business plan like you would have to give to a banker if you were asking for a loan. He didn't like it but he made one.


Now here is where you need to 'grow up' and say "I'm sorry, but I've backed all your other business ventures and you have not done what's necessary to make them work; I'm no longer willing to support your ideas; if you want to make them work, YOU will take on the extra shifts to pay for it. I'm putting this in my retirement account."

Oh, and it is NOT YOUR JOB to take his business plan to the bank. Stop enabling him.


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## Omar174

SandyBeaches said:


> I sort of did try a trial separation a year ago.
> 
> A year ago, I told my husband I wanted a 1 year separation. I thought we needed (or at least I needed space). He told me he would give me that. He moved out of the house. ( I offered to be the one to move out since I was the one asking for the separation but he said he would since he couldn't afford to stay in the house on his own). Anyways, he moved out but would not stay away. He constantly came over to visit and was always asking to spend the night or to stay until late into the night. He called several times during the day and dropped in for visits multiple times. Eventually I gave in and he moved back in within just a very few months. It has been right at almost a year since I first asked for the 1 year separation and I never really got it. I am not blaming my husband. I should have been stronger and stuck to what I said. because now I just want to ask once again for what I asked for this same time last year. BUT I saw the hurt and the tears, the pain I caused him when I asked the last time. I just don't want to do that to him again. I don't want to see the pain in his eyes.
> 
> However, I want to be happy too, and right now, I can't honestly say I am.


What is stopping you from trying a separation again? Only this time, put your foot down and tell him to STAY AWAY if he has any interest in saving the marriage! 

I'll be blunt. He is a big boy and needs to be able to take care of himself. So tell him to leave, or you leave and don't worry about him starving. He'll figure it out. 

But honestly, the more I read your thread, the more it sounds like you are done with the marriage. If that's the case then I'm not sure what you are waiting for. End it already.


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## clipclop2

I think this is about a lot more than falling out of love with him. The love allowed you to overlook things that in reality would bother a lot of people. Looking at it objectively, you have grown and he has not.

Being DONE is also a lot more than no longer "feeling" in love. And it is different than indifference. You can live with indifference. Parallel lives. Everything else stays the same.

DONE is when you NEED to get out because you see the current situation as holding you back. You fought the good fight, lost, accepted it, moved on emotionally, and don't want to blow the rest of your future in same spot. Marriage in this case is a straight jacket.

So your husband finally got the message. It will help him in the next relationship he is in but it doesn't do you any good because you are already past him. 

Separation would in this case only prolong his hope of winning you back. For you, it would just be one more step away from him.

Pain can't be avoided. You had your pain in the past and now he must face his.


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## harrybrown

his tax prep business.

Has he taken his business plan to the bank? There is competition. He should take it to the bank and not you.
Advertising does not help, it is wasted dollars. The best is happy clients and word of mouth.

There are franchises. It is hard work to be successful.

(and problems when things do not go right)

You can do things for clients, but they will not remember what wonderful thing you did for them. It is more hours than what a nurse works. I know. My wife and 3 of our daughters are nurses)

There are many law changes to get it right. Good luck to him. 
Some are CPAs, some are enrolled agents, etc. Some are scam artists. 

I have been a CPA for over 35 years. none of my kids wanted to do anything like accounting, consulting, and tax preparation.

They would rather be nurses than work all these crazy hours. 

Someone comes up with something illegal, and the clients leave to go to that person or firm. Then when they get in huge trouble, they are back wanting you to fix it for free.

I can't keep up with all the work. I have stopped accepting new clients, because my current clients would suffer from my lack of available time. 

I hope he is successful, and it might give you time to yourself. 

Good luck to you in your decision about your marriage. 

I am glad that you are being honest with him. He does deserve that from you. I am glad that he is trying even if it is too late.

hope you and your H find some happiness, or at least some peace in your life.

If you decide to leave and be on your own, it may bring you happiness and if you can, do not start up with someone right away. That is a real kick to the heart.


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## LongWalk

Make it clear that you will not finance his business. Why would he pour himself into something owner? Can't he be an employee?

When is the last time you took a nice vacation together?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## SandyBeaches

turnera said:


> Get HNHN out, read it together, discuss it, do the questionnaires, and do this journey together. Spend 15 hours a week together. See what happens.


I told my H that I wanted to read HNHN together a couple of days ago.... Well, he has more free time than I do and he told me last night that he finished reading HNHN last night. I will start reading it today. I have been working the past 5 nights (12hrs shifts) so have not had time to start reading. So, he got it part right, he read HNHN, just not together. As I go through the book it is my intention to discuss with him the different sections. I think that will be a good thing to do.


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## SandyBeaches

turnera said:


> If you read HNHN, you'll see that one of a woman's typical top 5 Emotional Needs is financial stability. Goes back to caveman days, it's in our DNA to need the man to be the one who 'protects' the family by providing, 'bringing home the meat.' He has showed you repeatedly that he is weak, that he puts his happiness ahead of yours. Now, you should have told him the truth about how you feel. But it's not too late to do that. My H has a lot of faults, but the one thing he's always done is take ANY job just to keep money coming in, no matter how humiliating. So I think you should give him some leeway that he is at least delivering pizzas. But you DO need to have this talk about how he makes you feel.


Last night he read or rather re-read the part that you are talking about. He came to me and asked if him being a delivery driver bugged me. I told him the status of his job / jobs never was an issue for me. My issues had to do with how much effort he was willing to put into his jobs and providing for his family. I told him that his excuse of him working and going to school didn't hold water with me because when our boys were younger, I took care of the boys, did on line college for nursing pre-requisites and held down a 40hr job! My H is choosing to only work 25hrs a week and do a at your own pace on line school.

He told me he now sees my point and will be changing this immediately.


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## SandyBeaches

turnera said:


> Now here is where you need to 'grow up' and say "I'm sorry, but I've backed all your other business ventures and you have not done what's necessary to make them work; I'm no longer willing to support your ideas; if you want to make them work, YOU will take on the extra shifts to pay for it. I'm putting this in my retirement account."
> 
> Oh, and it is NOT YOUR JOB to take his business plan to the bank. Stop enabling him.


I didn't tell him I would keep the money and put it into a retirement account but after several days/nights of talks, as of today, he says he will reconsider the previous job offer he was given and that he is willing to work with that company for a year or two, build up some experience, possibly do some accounting jobs on the side as during the off seasons, and then start his business.

Oh, and I told him that before I would back any new business, I wanted a loan officer to look at his business plan to see if they agreed it was a solid plan.

I think this hurt his ego some but he said, "Well, looks like that is on hold for a year or two. So we can make that happen when that time is needed."


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## SandyBeaches

Omar174 said:


> But honestly, the more I read your thread, the more it sounds like you are done with the marriage. If that's the case then I'm not sure what you are waiting for. End it already.


If, you read the last 2 or 3 posts I just posted, it is because, when I bring something up, like him only working 25hrs or him wanting to use $2,000 plus to start yet another business.... This past year, it may not be the first or second time I discuss it with him but over time when he sees this really is a 'love buster' for me he says he will change it and usually does at least for a while.

It is hard for me to walk away when he is trying so hard. He is far from perfect, but I'm not perfect either. I know this, so I keep waiting to see if my emotions and my feelings will come back.


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## SandyBeaches

LongWalk said:


> When is the last time you took a nice vacation together?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


Last time we took a vacation?? We went to a B&B for our 25th anniversary last February.

Before that... I don't remember.


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## turnera

One, I am VERY impressed with all the reading and talking and changing plans. That sounds very promising.

Two, you really really need to make time to go on vacations, even if they are just going camping in a tent or just for a weekend. If you can be spontaneous, you can get great deals on last-minute trips that are under-booked.


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