# The last straw



## Begofdend (Dec 12, 2021)

This is scary. Writing in here...
About two years ago my husband of 13 years shoved me with his shoulder intentionally and out of anger. His psychologist diagnosed him with PTSD so I think his violent behaviors have to do with that. I talked this through with my therapist and I thought things were going to be better and we were trying to keep things healthy for our two kids. That shove happened where my kids didn't see it. However, today, he pushed me hard with his hands. My daughter saw this, this time!!!!! I cannot let her think this is how a man treats a woman!! He pushed me so hard that I had to take a step back the first time and the second time was a bit less intense but regardless, he has crossed a line that I promised my self a long time ago that I would never tolerate. I don't fear for my life but I still have to take next steps and I have no clue where to start. Do I move out right away or do I move out only on weekends with my parents? My sister told me to take my time and do it slowly. I could see that for the kids sake and for our adjustment of changes to be easier to process? I need advice.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Begofdend said:


> This is scary. Writing in here...
> About two years ago my husband of 13 years shoved me with his shoulder intentionally and out of anger. His psychologist diagnosed him with PTSD so I think his violent behaviors have to do with that. I talked this through with my therapist and I thought things were going to be better and we were trying to keep things healthy for our two kids. That shove happened where my kids didn't see it. However, today, he pushed me hard with his hands. My daughter saw this, this time!!!!! I cannot let her think this is how a man treats a woman!! He pushed me so hard that I had to take a step back the first time and the second time was a bit less intense but regardless, he has crossed a line that I promised my self a long time ago that I would never tolerate. I don't fear for my life but I still have to take next steps and I have no clue where to start. Do I move out right away or do I move out only on weekends with my parents? My sister told me to take my time and do it slowly. I could see that for the kids sake and for our adjustment of changes to be easier to process? I need advice.


If you can start moving stuff out without him noticing when he's gone and are positive he doesn't have a tracker on you or your phone or your car and he doesn't have cameras in the house, then that's what to do. But you need to make sure about those things or he's going to know what you're doing and where you're going.

Do you have some place safe for you and the kids to go?

And then you're going to have to file for divorce to start getting some sort of control and accountability on finances.

Lots of men are using trackers and cameras in secrecy on their spouses so don't assume he's not. If you even have a ring doorbell he will see you coming and going. You might be able to go out the back door.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Violence should never be tolerated, especially in front of children. 
Can you tell us if he has any other violent tendencies? Throwing things? Shouting? Why do you think he has PTSD?

Would he agree to leave? It would be much easier if you could stay with the children but he may refuse. 
Not sure of the point of leaving just for weekends.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Physical violence is never to be excused. But, if it’s entirely out of character, just these two times separated by a year, there is no fear for your safety (which might be an incorrect assumption), and he’s been clinically diagnosed and under care…

_If_ all that is true, you may be rushing things.

Most of us have never considered ourselves capable of physically assaulting our spouse. And yet, if the bar is set as low as it appears you’re describing, there might be a whole lot of marriages that were dissolved that, with serious and appropriate help, could have been kept together.

I don’t know where such a line can be safely drawn; I think it’s a question that needs to be explored.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

You get yourself down to the local family court and file an Order of Protection and have HIM removed from the house.


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## Begofdend (Dec 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Violence should never be tolerated, especially in front of children.
> Can you tell us if he has any other violent tendencies? Throwing things? Shouting? Why do you think he has PTSD?
> 
> Would he agree to leave? It would be much easier if you could stay with the children but he may refuse.
> Not sure of the point of leaving just for weekends.


He had a traumatic childhood. He told me his therapist (at the time) told him he likely had that. Yes, he throws things (not at us) and yells. He gets road rage. It can be scary and unfortunately, I think I've gotten used to it. It's hard to know what's ok and what's not when you've lived with someone like this for so long. I often have to try to calm him down and more times than not, it doesn't work.
Thank you for your advice. I think I should ask him to leave so the kids don't have to go through all of the back and forth. 
im going to start seeing a therapist again. I have been back and forth about this for so long and this time I want the therapist to help me with a plan for moving forward with a divorce.


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## Begofdend (Dec 12, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> Physical violence is never to be excused. But, if it’s entirely out of character, just these two times separated by a year, there is no fear for your safety (which might be an incorrect assumption), and he’s been clinically diagnosed and under care…
> 
> _If_ all that is true, you may be rushing things.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your cautious and careful reply. He has been abusive emotionally most often, however, he has always tried to keep his hands off of me in the past. His dad used to beat his mom and he said he was a witness so I was proud of him that we made it this far but it was always a fear of mine that he would repeat the cycle. I'm not sure I want to take the chance for things to get worse. I just want to end things as civil and respectful as possible.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Begofdend said:


> Thank you so much for your cautious and careful reply. He has been abusive emotionally most often, however, he has always tried to keep his hands off of me in the past. His dad used to beat his mom and he said he was a witness so I was proud of him that we made it this far but it was always a fear of mine that he would repeat the cycle. I'm not sure I want to take the chance for things to get worse. I just want to end things as civil and respectful as possible.


It’s your choice how to regard his actions. Based on what you knew of his history, his father, it might be argued he’s done well moving away from that sort of thing. But in your first post, something read a bit strangely. That the ultimate bad thing was that your daughter saw it and that’s just not something that’s acceptable, that line that cannot be crossed.

Why? I can think of reasons, but what is yours? Why do you believe your kids can’t understand that Dad has an issue that he recognizes and is working on? Because that’s a different story than the typical story of abuse. That’s to some extent a story of hope.

But I feel like there’s more behind the curtain, as you bring up his verbal abuse as well.

How would his side of the story sound? Would it be repentant or nasty?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

You stop accepting this unacceptable behavior right now.
HE needs to move. You need to file for divorce and see if you can have your kids 100% if the time - ask for supervised visitation for him to see his kids.
If you allow those kids to be with him he will continue yelling and also put them at risk in his car. 

Start protecting yourself and your kids. Do you work? Work enough to support yourself?
Do you have family that can help you with your kids? If so, tell them you need help now!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

This behavior always gets worse not better. Beware.


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## Chaotic (Jul 6, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> This behavior always gets worse not better. Beware.


^^^ This.
My ex was like this. He didn't touch me in anger, but he threw things, screamed, punched walls, broke things in anger, raged while driving, raged at home over uncontrollable things like the weather. It got progressively worse over years. I left. I do not regret it. You and your kids can live without this kind of rage and stress in your lives. You'll be amazed at how good it feels to not walk on eggshells all the time.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think there needs to be a clean and fast break, and frankly he is the one who should leave. If you drag it out or try the weekends only thing my opinion is that will only elevate his hostility level, and gives him the opportunity to put hands on you again.

Many of us men grew up in abusive homes, many people have PTSD, but that doesn't give the right to be abusive. An adult knows this. Any adult who can't control abusive behavior shouldn't be in a relationship, shouldn't have kids, until they can control their outburst.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Chaotic said:


> ^^^ This.
> My ex was like this. He didn't touch me in anger, but he threw things, screamed, punched walls, broke things in anger, raged while driving, raged at home over uncontrollable things like the weather. It got progressively worse over years. I left. I do not regret it. You and your kids can live without this kind of rage and stress in your lives. You'll be amazed at how good it feels to not walk on eggshells all the time.


Even if there is no actual hands on violence the children must be living in fear constantly from his rages, shouting, throwing objects around. 
Op
He needs anger management but for your safety and for the children's emotional well being, you need to at least separate until/if/when he can stop the rages and temper.


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## Begofdend (Dec 12, 2021)

Casual Observer said:


> It’s your choice how to regard his actions. Based on what you knew of his history, his father, it might be argued he’s done well moving away from that sort of thing. But in your first post, something read a bit strangely. That the ultimate bad thing was that your daughter saw it and that’s just not something that’s acceptable, that line that cannot be crossed.
> 
> Why? I can think of reasons, but what is yours? Why do you believe your kids can’t understand that Dad has an issue that he recognizes and is working on? Because that’s a different story than the typical story of abuse. That’s to some extent a story of hope.
> 
> ...


he has not addressed it at all. I think he realizes he was in the wrong. He doesn't want to try therapy... when he did it last time it was because it was like my ultimatum and now Im not even going to ask him to consider it because it needs to come from him. I feel like there's not much hope since he's not willing to work on himself. 😞


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## Begofdend (Dec 12, 2021)

Chaotic said:


> ^^^ This.
> My ex was like this. He didn't touch me in anger, but he threw things, screamed, punched walls, broke things in anger, raged while driving, raged at home over uncontrollable things like the weather. It got progressively worse over years. I left. I do not regret it. You and your kids can live without this kind of rage and stress in your lives. You'll be amazed at how good it feels to not walk on eggshells all the time.


Thank you so much for sharing hope.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Begofdend said:


> he has not addressed it at all. I think he realizes he was in the wrong. He doesn't want to try therapy... when he did it last time it was because it was like my ultimatum and now Im not even going to ask him to consider it because it needs to come from him. I feel like there's not much hope since he's not willing to work on himself. 😞


And he’s been told this is where you are? It’s not going to come as a surprise, something you kept to yourself until it was too much and crossed a line he couldn’t have seen coming?

What I’m getting at is that it feels like maybe you made up your mind about leaving some time ago, and have been looking for an excuse to leave. And if that’s the case, fine, I get it, but try to be as honest about it as possible.

The problem with TAM is that we see a lot of stories that look like they’re relevant in a current sort of way, but eventually it turns out that the spouse had been looking for a way out for a while and has already been thinking about someone to take their spouses place. It creates a very jaded view of breakups over time. You start to see things that aren’t there.

But if he’s known what’s expected of him, if he’s got anger issues he refuses to address, then it’s pretty much game over.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The decision to change things is going to have to come from you.
Expecting him to change is a pipe dream. 

You start making the changes you want in your life. Make sure you protect yourself and your kids first.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Begofdend said:


> This is scary. Writing in here...
> About two years ago my husband of 13 years shoved me with his shoulder intentionally and out of anger. His psychologist diagnosed him with PTSD so I think his violent behaviors have to do with that. I talked this through with my therapist and I thought things were going to be better and we were trying to keep things healthy for our two kids. That shove happened where my kids didn't see it. However, today, he pushed me hard with his hands. My daughter saw this, this time!!!!! I cannot let her think this is how a man treats a woman!! He pushed me so hard that I had to take a step back the first time and the second time was a bit less intense but regardless, he has crossed a line that I promised my self a long time ago that I would never tolerate. I don't fear for my life but I still have to take next steps and I have no clue where to start. Do I move out right away or do I move out only on weekends with my parents? My sister told me to take my time and do it slowly. I could see that for the kids sake and for our adjustment of changes to be easier to process? I need advice.


I suffer from PTSD as well. So does my wife. I have never put hands on her, but she has put hands on me. 

This is hard. Yeah, you can come out of all this good. But it can just as easily go bad. 

The biggest question I would ask is this...


Are you scared?


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