# Engaged and having doubts about future



## fallingupwards (Dec 27, 2012)

Hello,
Im new here so sorry for immediately going into my problems. I have a problem that maybe someone here can shed some light on.
I have been with my girlfriend now fiance for a little over four years.Im 27 now and so is she. We get along in every way except one, our sex life has been weird at best. When we first started dating she didnt want to kiss or have sex until marriage. Crazy, I know. After about 6 months of waiting I told her that if she didnt want to kiss me then I would find someone who would want to. She agreed to kiss me and we did. It was my second time ever kissing so I was pretty excited. 
Anyway after dating for about 2 years she decided that she wants to have sex for our anniversary. She admitted her mom pushed her into it and thought it was weird we hadn't. Now I had only had sex one time before and it was for 5 minutes and then the girl changed her mind. She on the other hand had a boyfriend before me and had sex multiple times. When we finally did it, it was great. After a while she ended up only being in the mood when she wanted it. When I did I was generally shot down. She cited feeling guilty about it.
A little over a year ago she decided she wanted to wait again until at least engagement. I was bummed. In June I proposed. And yet she now wants to wait until marriage before sex. Does this seem right to anyone or does it seem one-sided to me? I feel as though my feelings on the issue are swept under the rug. And I have talked about this with her as well. Any ideas?


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## Andy66 (Sep 17, 2012)

fallingupwards said:


> *A little over a year ago she decided she wanted to wait again until at least engagement*. I was bummed. In June I proposed. *And yet she now wants to wait until marriage before sex*. Does this seem right to anyone or does it seem one-sided to me? I feel as though my feelings on the issue are swept under the rug. And I have talked about this with her as well. Any ideas?


I guess once you're married it'll be postponed to when you want to start a family - Seriously though, what did she say when you talked about this issue? It seems to me that she's insulting your feelings by assuming you'll accept this constant carrot-dangling and stalling over sex.
You need to get to the root of this (and set a mental time deadline where you either reach a mutual compromise or just break it all off and move on)


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Do not get married yet, not when you have unresolved but important issues!

Sexual needs are very important, they are the most intimate form of affection a couple shares. Not being on similar terms can make the partner who needs it feel rejected, cold and insecure. In many times, even if a man just states "sexual needs", it is actually more than that and some emotional/psychological needs are attached too.

Of course each kind of need has different priorities for different people. But if it is an important need for you, then you must seriously consider if you are really ok with it. Chances are, if your partner is not really worrying much about your needs being met and even didn't hold what she promised (sex for engagement - although personally I wouldn't promise such things as I wouldn't want to be proposed for achieving sex), then she might not really consider it when you are married. Marriage does not really change nor cure what is not ok. Worse case scenarios are that the partner even become ok with it since they are safe after marriage (the ultimate goal is achieved, and separation is much less into consideration when a couple is married).


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm curious...why would she be ok to have sex "multiple times" with her old bf but not with you? And to not even want to kiss for the first 6 months of dating?? Is this a religious inhibition? What makes her feel so guilty about it? 

Honestly, if you hadn't stated your ages, I would have thought you two were still teenagers. At the point of discussing marriage, she should be mature enough to have an honest and open discussion with you about sex. This is a VERY important issue. You absolutely should not get married until this is ironed out. If you don't, you may find yourself stuck in a cold, sexless marriage.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

She lacks sexual maturity and therefore should not be getting married. You need to start having a regular sex life that is good for both of you before you get married. You should be doing it at least 3 times a week if not more. 

As it stands what you see is what you are going to get. This is going to be how it is forever.

She is probably lying about the guilt, she lost her virginity years ago. But even if sex actually does make her guilty, why would you want to marry someone like that? 

It sounds like you are not too sexually experienced yourself. Being married to this girl is going to make you very unhappy over the years.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

She sounds conflicted about her morals and is easily influenced by what people say.

Maybe she could go to therapy and get a handle on what it is she wants, she can learn how to protect herself and to advocate for herself and minimize communication issues and the burden of knowing that she's yanking you around with some fairly powerful stuff. 

I'd be more concerned with her inability to really know why she's doing this, than the fact that she's doing this (which in this case is not doing this...)


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## Zig (Oct 6, 2012)

fallingupwards said:


> Hello,
> Im new here so sorry for immediately going into my problems. I have a problem that maybe someone here can shed some light on.
> I have been with my girlfriend now fiance for a little over four years.Im 27 now and so is she. We get along in every way except one, our sex life has been weird at best. When we first started dating she didnt want to kiss or have sex until marriage. Crazy, I know. After about 6 months of waiting I told her that if she didnt want to kiss me then I would find someone who would want to. She agreed to kiss me and we did. It was my second time ever kissing so I was pretty excited.
> Anyway after dating for about 2 years she decided that she wants to have sex for our anniversary. She admitted her mom pushed her into it and thought it was weird we hadn't. Now I had only had sex one time before and it was for 5 minutes and then the girl changed her mind. She on the other hand had a boyfriend before me and had sex multiple times. When we finally did it, it was great. After a while she ended up only being in the mood when she wanted it. When I did I was generally shot down. She cited feeling guilty about it.
> A little over a year ago she decided she wanted to wait again until at least engagement. I was bummed. In June I proposed. And yet she now wants to wait until marriage before sex. Does this seem right to anyone or does it seem one-sided to me? I feel as though my feelings on the issue are swept under the rug. And I have talked about this with her as well. Any ideas?


It's posts like this one that scream "TROLL" to me.

How can any reasonable person see all of these red flags and still want to get married?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Engaged + having doubts = postpone or cancel the wedding.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It's one sided and this will only get worse after marriage.

Don't say you weren't warned.


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## fallingupwards (Dec 27, 2012)

Thanks for the replies everyone. Firstly Im not a troll. This is all stuff that has happened. 
The kissing thing was because of a couple she knew at church who didnt kiss until marriage and ended up getting married. Of course this is what they say and I have no evidence to support that or refute that. She also got this idea from that Duggars 20 kids and counting (probably 50 at this point, Im a bit bitter towards that show). 

It's funny that the carrot dangling was mentioned because last month I used that same analogy when I talked to her. I told her how I felt and she answered that she wanted to have sex but was holding back and that it would change after marriage. The thing is how do I it will change after marriage? What if I get married and she wants to wait until we are trying for kids? It scares the hell out of me.

"She sounds conflicted about her morals and is easily influenced by what people say." 
I have noticed this too. Weirdly enough everyone but myself can sway her opinion. 

The one thing I can say is that when she was with her ex she says she was raped. I really dont understand psychology but why did she continue for a year after the fact?

Thank you all for your help. I cant really talk with family about this stuff nor most of my friends.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Power struggle. She's showing that she'll do whatever it takes to maintain control.


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## fallingupwards (Dec 27, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Power struggle. She's showing that she'll do whatever it takes to maintain control.


Any ideas on how to break this? I dont want to call off the engagement but I honestly dont see any other way... The wedding is 6 months away.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The only way I see to reclaim control is to be willing to walk. As long as she knows you'll follow her no matter how she treats you, she will continue her behavior. The worst part is that women, in general, do not respect men they can control so easily. The future for such a relationship looks very dark. Long term, women don't put out to men they don't respect. They often cheat on men they don't respect. You have a chance, so early in the relationship, to set the rules and boundaries. If you miss this opportunity, and let her unilaterally control your sex life....well, trust me, you don't want to know what your marriage will look like 10 years down the road.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Does she talk at all about sexual desire?
Maybe you could tell her that God doesn't make design/function errors...
There are some good videos out there such as "Sexplorations" that she could watch (on her own) to get an idea of how coupled people/married people express themselves sexually...it might open up a dialog for what you expect after marriage...

Short of that I have no idea. I am guilty of having done the same to a guy who was serious about me when I was around the same age as you two are now...I have to say eventually I decided I was too wild (I'd been trying to control myself...hence the rules/waffling/conditions) and in the end decided he was too nice a person to be married to me, as in my opinion he didn't have a clue about what was really bothering me and I didn't think he could handle it if he did. 

It has taken me a very long time to be able to discuss myself and my needs and my concerns about myself with others...also to be in relationships where I'm not silent (even though it often means the end of those relationships...) 

Once raped or taken advantage of sexually, the only way a woman can feel in control of things is either physically (which also goes against her own nature and causes the conflicts and waffling you're seeing now) or through therapy, understanding their sexual side and seeing it as a positive force in their lives, and learning to handle it through appropriate boundary setting. The psychology of rape/molestation/sexual exploitation is not an easy one. 

Most likely she could benefit from therapy as a loving relationship while beneficial is going to fall short. You can't cater to her perception of how evil the world is, and this makes her anxious. In effect, she thinks you are innocent and naive, and unable to deal with her realities. 

One of the absurdities of having gone through horror is the need to constantly test it out, to see if it was really real. After a few (or a lot) of bad relationships, she will learn to trust herself...

My timeline has gone way down...I'm now able to identify and eradicate a control freak in about 3 weeks or less. I somehow developed a liking for how a nice guy makes me feel about myself and my life. I had a lot of therapy and it wasn't easy.

It's like being a recovered alcoholic I suppose.

With rape, it's not like you can just be a victim and then get over it...usually there is some kind of guilt involved, and blaming of the victim or the perp using some kind of psychological tactics to undermine the victim's sense of reality. Staying with someone for a year after doesn't do much good...but in fact I even gave my husband a second chance (and publicly) after filing rape charges. All I can say is thankful I went to therapy, it did seem to fix me however it's not foolproof...I still make mistakes but they're not as grave/longlasting.

Sorry if this seems like all bad news. There really is not a lot you can do except to say that women sometimes have it bad and that there is no shame in having working sexuality and learning to control it. Maybe she will get a hint from that. Honestly a lot of times a women commits to a relationship through marriage and that's when the bad boys start showing their true colors. 

You may have to postpone the wedding until she gets herself sorted out, at the risk of losing her, perhaps. But you should be able to feel good about any marriage you go into. So you do have the right to do that...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Dude, her arbitrary decisions about your sex life will continue after marriage. She cares nothing about your feelings or desires right now; what makes you think that will get better after she's locked you into a marriage? It will be even easier for her to ignore your needs then as you'll have no recourse except to live in a sexless marriage or divorce and divorce is messy.

Read the threads here. See what you'll be signing up for if you marry her. Do you really want to spend the next 40 years of your life begging her for sex and not getting it?


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## fallingupwards (Dec 27, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Does she talk at all about sexual desire?
> Maybe you could tell her that God doesn't make design/function errors...
> There are some good videos out there such as "Sexplorations" that she could watch (on her own) to get an idea of how coupled people/married people express themselves sexually...it might open up a dialog for what you expect after marriage...
> 
> ...


Wow. That was a grat response. Thank You. It really helped me to get a clearer picture as to whats going on.
I guess I need to sit her down and explain things to her from my side of the fence. I may even show her this forum posting. I am not sure if I can talk her into therapy, but something needs to change. 

Norajane,
Thank you as well for your post. I am reading all of these and its reassuring that my feelings about this are justified. 

Thanks WorkingOnMe as well. It's helpful to know that I still have a chance to say something before its too late. Needless to say her and I need to have a talk.


Thanks to everyone with your responses.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

If it were just a principled decision to wait until marriage for sex I would understand, although not agree. But no kissing for six months? The flip-flopping? The moving targets?

Serious issues that raise serious red flags.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

fallingupwards said:


> It's funny that the carrot dangling was mentioned because last month I used that same analogy when I talked to her. I told her how I felt and she answered that she wanted to have sex but was holding back and that it would change after marriage. The thing is how do I it will change after marriage? What if I get married and she wants to wait until we are trying for kids? It scares the hell out of me.


You don't know it will change. All you can do is base your future off of your past. If you touch an electric fence 99 straight days and it gives you a shock, but the farmer said all along that if you touch that fence everyday that on day 100 he'll turn the power off, are you really going to touch that fence for 99 straight days and take him at his word that on day 100 it'll be ok? Or do you tell that farmer to go find a sucker some place else?



fallingupwards said:


> "She sounds conflicted about her morals and is easily influenced by what people say."
> I have noticed this too. Weirdly enough everyone but myself can sway her opinion.


My ex-wife was the same way. She'd listen to anyone but me. It took me a long time to figure it out but in the end I realized the reason was because unlike everyone else, I had nothing to hold her accountable. If she didn't liksten to friends, family, co-workers, etc. they could all turn their backs on her after a while. It's the basic principal of a healthy relationship of any form, you give and take, not just take, or the other person will eventually leave. Thing was, my ex-wife felt I would never leave, so she could take and take and take.

You're in the same boat. She thinks you'll never leave so why even listen to what you have to say? She has all but dropped sex right off the map for you and left you with serious doubts about whether or not you'll be living in a sexless marriage and what is your response? To ask her to marry you? Think about it from her perspective. What is making her listen to you at all and take your needs seriously? What is holding her accountable?

The reason many marriages fail is because one partner has stopped fulfilling some or all of the needs of the other partner. She's already been pretty clear to you that your sexual needs are not really even on her radar and you'll get sex when she's willing to dole it out. Do you see this marriage lasting?



fallingupwards said:


> The one thing I can say is that when she was with her ex she says she was raped. I really dont understand psychology but why did she continue for a year after the fact?


Many possible reasons. Self blame for one.

My fiancee was raped by her ex-husband. The sex stopped after that but she remained with him for about another year before leaving him permanently. She's never really explained why, but then again trauma isn't easy to explain, especially when it's more of an emotional trauma than a physical one in regards to the long-term affects.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

The only time I've heard of no sex and no kissing until we're married was when I attended church way back in the day. I am still a God fearing man, but my sex drive was super high no matter what. I couldn't wait until I was married and I tried!!!

If she is a God fearing woman, no sex / kissing until you're married, that's great in a perfect world, God and parents.

But, this could lead to big sex issues on her side, guilty, repressed, and after you get married, the sex won't then be magically perfect because you waited. Quite the opposite in fact.

My wife and I kissed, lots of cuddling and oral sex while we were engaged. Then she went on the pill, we got married, waited 6 months to be safe, and the sex was okay. Turned out, she was insecure, low sex drive, doesn't talk dirty, no fantasies or fetishes, doesn't take the sexual initiative either. 13 years later.....same thing.

DON'T MARRY HER UNTIL SHE GETS HER ISSUES SORTED OUT FIRST, PLEASE!!!


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