# Am I expecting too much?



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Question: How do I get my wife - who I find attractive- to get into sex as something we can explore together? something we can talk about, joke about, just be completely open about with no inhibitions. 

I have been struggling over the years with our vanilla, often predictable sex. I have shared my desires but get no communication, ideas or sharing from her. The frequency is ok, as of recently (3x per week or so). I think my wife gets that I have needs but too often it seems as if the act is done soley for me to get off and not as a form of intimacy. Ie. foreplay is a minute or two hand job for me, then right up to missionary where it goes one of three ways. PIV she stimulate herself to orgasm then I orgasm, she lets me go down on her to orgasm then back to missionary for me to finish, or when she requests a toy then missionary for me. 

Now maybe I'm off base but this pattern with an occasional change up after a while gets boring. Not to mention there are a few rules from her end that sometimes cause additional frustration.

For example:
Kissing: My wife feels smothered if I kiss her any way but from above in bed. Kissing usually consists of soft lip to lip. Tongue is accepted the first time but discouraged by closing her mouth to me when I try a second time. She never gets her tongue involved. I also can not kiss her or better yet can tell that she would rather not kiss me if I have had any flavored foods (ie. salsa) unless she has eaten it too. It does not matter if I have brushed, mouthwashed, etc.. By rather not, she doesn't say no she just kisses in a way that leads me to think she is not interested. We never make out. I try but it usually only makes it a minute or two before she moves her head away. 

touching: OK - Warming up before sex I can massage non erogenous area's but if I touch the special spots she puts up with it for a few minutes but then I get a quick knee jerk kind of reaction. This sometimes makes me just roll over and not even attempt. She is allowed to touch me and I try to communicate/encourage her verbally and by positive body movements.

By the way - when massaging as instructed, I get limited verbal and barely any positive body movements. And any that is given is not deemed by me as the type that says I like this and it is making me horny. Instead it is I like this and I am relaxing. 

We never talk about sex. I try to talk but she just gets quiet and doesn't share. And when I have shared she has used my "sexual deviations" against me during arguments. She says she has no fantasy's. She claims that she masterbates but apparently only for release then she is done. 

I'm at a loss. I love my wife but I am frustrated. I sometimes wonder if she is Asexual or something. I guess I just need to know am I being silly and should just accept my sexlife as it is? Or, if perhaps I'm not off base and the type of sex relationship I desire is possible.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Sounds to me like she's just not all that sexually attracted to you.

Sex isn't much more than a chore and an occasional release.

Sorry it's not going to get any better with her.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

OP, that is so sad.  Please don't accept a lifetime of that! It sounds like your wife is very inhibited and has serious hang-ups about intimacy. Has she always been this way? If she's content with being that way, there's not much you can do. 

What you desire IS possible! Don't give up.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Lila said:


> Was she like this before you married?
> 
> Sadly, you can't force her to change.
> 
> Eta- Critiquing her vanilla sex mindset is only going to make her resent you. Instead try moving her into other positions. Might work


She always claimed to be "shy" when I tried to talk to her before marriage. When we were first married I seemed to get a lot of excuses. Then a few years after that - 3 kids in 36 months and those excuses. Now 13 years in as the kids are getting bigger and less needy I'm getting less patient about the excuses. 

I know she feels pressure because she has increased the frequency due to some talks we have had. This is appreciated. 

The kicker is because there is no intimacy I don't really want to engage with her. I also am getting super obsessed with finding a way to fix the situation. I keep scouring the internet for any idea's that I think would help. In the end I don't hear many useful solutions that fit my situation. I just feel like we are oil and water and any time I try to bring up sex, I'm a pervert. Or at least she makes me feel that way. 

For example, one night I emailed her a sex questionnaire - asking her check off all the things she would be open to. In return I would fill out the same and our matching responses would click. Out of curiosity I checked almost every conceivable option off as an interest whether I was into it or not just hoping she might be into something other than "Vanilla". The Results: We matched the most conservative stuff and she ended up mad a me because I am disappointed in her because she's not into other stuff.

My point to her is how do you know your not interested if your not willing to at least break out of your comfort zone just a little. I'm not trying to get her to swing or anything. Just think, look, talk about and maybe try some out of the box type stuff.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

soulpotato said:


> OP, that is so sad.  Please don't accept a lifetime of that! It sounds like your wife is very inhibited and has serious hang-ups about intimacy. Has she always been this way? If she's content with being that way, there's not much you can do.
> 
> What you desire IS possible! Don't give up.


She has always skirted the issue with excuses. Never admitting to not being open to intimacy. Or at least the type I'm looking for. 

The other night I told her that I thought the definition of intimacy was to be honest and open and accepting of the other. That it wasn't just about being physical. She really had nothing to say. 

I am traveling so when I return I plan to bring up the topic again regarding intimacy.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

Sampson001 said:


> She has always skirted the issue with excuses. Never admitting to not being open to intimacy. Or at least the type I'm looking for.
> 
> The other night I told her that I thought the definition of intimacy was to be honest and open and accepting of the other. That it wasn't just about being physical. She really had nothing to say.
> 
> I am traveling so when I return I plan to bring up the topic again regarding intimacy.


Right, she wants to avoid it altogether. She may even need IC (individual counseling) to work through intimacy issues. 

There are so many levels to intimacy, and they are interconnected in some ways. If she's not feeling open and embracing emotionally, she won't be physically, either. It really sounds like she's just going through the motions and that her mind/heart/soul are disconnected from them. 

I think it's very important for you to bring up, but I think the right approach is also critical (especially as she seems to be avoidant).


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Is there anything in her background or upbringing which may be contributing?

Sex abuse, very strict or religious parents, etc?


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Thor said:


> Is there anything in her background or upbringing which may be contributing?
> 
> Sex abuse, very strict or religious parents, etc?


No Sex Abuse, nice parents but her mom gave her a book about a woman's body and development vs. any conversations. She also used to accuse her in H.S. of being a **** or acting that way even though she was not behaving that way. Regarding religion - yes, but no more than I am.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Is your marriage intimate in other ways? Do you two share your thoughts and emotions, spend time talking to one another, do fun things together, spend a lot of time alone doing date-like things? 

I ask because it may be that her needs for emotional intimacy aren't being met, so she's not really engaged with you on an intimate level when it's time for sex. For many women, sex and intimacy are two separate things. So, whereas a man might feel the marriage is intimate if the sex life is good, a woman won't get that same feeling of intimacy with her partner no matter how much sex they have, unless the relationship is also intimate in other non-sexual ways. 

You may want to check out the book _His Needs, Her Needs _by Willard Harley.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It sounds to me like she's feeling a bit pressured by you to be into things that don't interest her. She checks the boxes she wants and that's no good.....maybe she should be disappointed in you checking everything? Sexual preferences are very individual and hers are just as valid as yours. So you might be better off with baby steps rather than checking everything.....can you be more specific about what you want? Do you want her to kiss you more or do you want porn sex? Big difference, and I'll tell you now that of you're bringing porn stuff up that will cause a sh!t ton of resentment. Please remember that you're having sex three times a week so you're not exactly going without. Choose one thing that pushes boundaries a little and gently try it.....one thing at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

I feel like I went through the same thing for years, but me and my wife married young. Although we changed our lives and pretended to be adults together, buying a house, having kids, she never changed sexually. It was like a woman, all the sexy parts, with the mind of a high school girl that hesitated during oral and never really initiated. I chased her, and it just stayed that way. 

What's sad to me was, and I knew it, if she was divorced and back on the market, she would have been the woman sexually I always wanted. She was a pleaser and had a desire to be a good woman and wife, but for whatever reason, sex just didn't register. I knew even a random one night stand would get more enthusiasm than I could ever get. Just knowing her personality, she loved me, but sex was the least important thing in her life. She already had me.

I had to change that.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Sampson001 said:


> No Sex Abuse, nice parents but her mom gave her a book about a woman's body and development vs. any conversations. She also used to accuse her in H.S. of being a **** or acting that way even though she was not behaving that way. Regarding religion - yes, but no more than I am.


Good that there's no abuse or trauma.

Your wife may have some toxic shame around sex. THis is fixable with either self education or IC. Basically, toxic shame is a defective thought and emotion process based in false beliefs. She may not believe in her core that it is ok for her to enjoy or desire sex. She needs to learn that good people enjoy sex, and in fact sex is a good and important part of life.

This is a surprisingly common problem.

Another issue may be that you two have developed certain dynamics and scripts. She may believe she has to be this certain person in your marriage. As you said, she might be totally different with someone else.

Something which many wives don't realize is that their husband wanted their girlfriend to still be their girlfriend when they got married. They didn't want her to morph into some kind of Disney version of a 1950's tv wife.

You could try to bring more of a dating feel to your marriage. Don't make it all about the sex, make it about dating and having fun.

In addition to that, you could introduce some sexy dating. Drop her off at a nightclub and pretend you don't know each other. You pick her up. And, maybe rent a hotel room she doesn't know about. Or, take her out to the car and bang her there (discreetly so you don't get arrested). Be more directive with her, for example tell her to wear some sexy underwear (maybe something you buy for her) when you go out to dinner.

Stop trying to manipulate her into sex. It should be an overt approach when you want it. Don't do things to try to warm her up or gauge her receptiveness. e.g. don't give her a neck massage Saturday afternoon as a way to get her thinking about physical contact. She will learn the only times you do that is when you want sex, so whenever you touch her she will start having negative emotional responses.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

I think you should be happy having sex 3 times a week. That's more than most people get. I doubt she is going to change so just accept it and be happy.


----------



## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

A few things here...

1. Frequency of 3x a week is really good, especially if she's just not that interested in it. She's obviously doing this for you, you should respect and be happy with that. On top of that, she likely does enjoy it but just not to the crazy monkey sex extent that you suddenly want. If you both O that's a good thing, and it's why I think she's more into it than you know -- often women just don't want to show that they are into it. Also, for her to be super into it 3x a week I think that's just never going to happen, that is very rare for most women and it sounds to me like she's not one of those.

2. If she was like this before you married, and always has been, the fault is on you for being ok with it then and suddenly not being ok with it now. So just relax and be patient, rather than suddenly making it into a big issue.

3. Very few women are into sex all the time, some are never really that crazy into sex ever. All this BS up above about her not being attracted to you and so on, I hear it on every post here (I think people enjoy coming in and just saying she's not attracted to you and it will never change -- yea I'm talking to you lenzi). The fact is that attraction has to do with a huge amount of things, and sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. To say it will never change is completely false. Just like people can lose attraction, they can regain it again and there are a lot of factors in life that will influence that. And like I said above, some women simply are not very sexual... they are for an early period of their life, then sometimes they regain it a bit later, but it's common that most of their life sex is a lower priority and it's something that is more done for their husband than for themselves. You should value the fact that she is thinking about you and willing to take care of your needs.

Your key here is going to be very subtle open communication. You cannot bring it up all the time, and you cannot make your life revolve around it. Focus on your relationship as a whole, make sure everything is good, and focus on yourself -- make sure you are taking care of yourself (physically, career goals, hobbies, etc.) and make sure you are strong partner in your relationship that your wife can rely on and look up to. Do that, and you will find that having crazy monkey sex 3 times a week is not what a marriage is all about.

And last bit here -- you mention about that if she was "on the market" again then you know she would be enjoying sex or whatever. That may be true, just like you would be enjoying sex with a new partner, but the fact of the matter is as soon as either of those relationships settled down it's very likely you would be back in the same place you are now. You can never really be sure, because people are different in the early stages of the relationship than they are in the long run. 

Be happy with your wife, your family, and your life. Look at the positives, work on the parts you don't like, but don't make it all about the bad. You have a good thing going, it would be stupid to get hung up on sex and forget about everything else.


----------



## James2020 (Jun 4, 2014)

P.S. I speak from experience as my wife is similar in a lot of ways as to what you had described. Being on these forums for a while now, I have learned to understand which feedback is valuable and which is not. Although everyone here usually has good intentions, they do not have a full understanding of your situation especially if likely you don't either. So taking this advice full on, is likely going to cause you more issues than good (my advice included).


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Rowan said:


> Is your marriage intimate in other ways? Do you two share your thoughts and emotions, spend time talking to one another, do fun things together, spend a lot of time alone doing date-like things?
> 
> I ask because it may be that her needs for emotional intimacy aren't being met, so she's not really engaged with you on an intimate level when it's time for sex. For many women, sex and intimacy are two separate things. So, whereas a man might feel the marriage is intimate if the sex life is good, a woman won't get that same feeling of intimacy with her partner no matter how much sex they have, unless the relationship is also intimate in other non-sexual ways.
> 
> You may want to check out the book _His Needs, Her Needs _by Willard Harley.


I will check the book out. I work from home so we are together a lot. Heck, she jokes with people that the nights I am on the road are good for our marriage/save our marriage. We talk a lot about stuff I imagine best friends would talk about ( ie. the kids, extended family and friend gossip, politics etc.) but we never talk or share sexy thoughts. I have tried but get no reciprocation. I try to compliment her. It's not hard as she is very attractive. 

As for activities we run or walk together almost daily. We go out on a date at least once or twice a month. I have been trying to send nice texts throughout the day the past couple of months. 

As for kissing/holding hands and other sensual stuff throughout the day. I try to kiss her but after a while of the grandma kisses I usually get the drift that a kiss is not necessary. In the car I try to hold her hand. Evenings when we watch tv we share a love seat together (side by side) not a ton of touching but we are close. In bed I try to rub her back and legs. Areas I know are ok zones. She usually allows this but after a few it's obvious that she is half asleep. Many nights, in an effort to not be pushy, I get in bed give her a peck on the cheek and just lay there, hands at my side, no touching. Most nights she just gets in here sleeping zone and off to lala land she goes. 

I'm totally at a loss. Like I said, it's almost as if she is what I envision as asexual. Unable to move beyond friendly to intimate.


----------



## confused801 (Aug 8, 2014)

3 times a week with her having orgasm is awesome. May not be great for you is awesome compared to my 1 every two weeks and not 1 orgasm from her in 8 years. Intimacy is nill and void in my relationship. Could be worse...just sayin.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

confused801 said:


> 3 times a week with her having orgasm is awesome. May not be great for you is awesome compared to my 1 every two weeks and not 1 orgasm from her in 8 years. Intimacy is nill and void in my relationship. Could be worse...just sayin.


I feel for you. But it sounds like you have given up on your spouse and yourself. Don't give up. Don't sit on these posts and wallow in others problems allowing yourself to say well I guess I"m not the only one. Get to the bottom of it. Look for ideas here and then personalize them and communicate with your wife. 

You only got one shot in this world. Best to not waste it.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> It sounds to me like she's feeling a bit pressured by you to be into things that don't interest her. She checks the boxes she wants and that's no good.....maybe she should be disappointed in you checking everything? Sexual preferences are very individual and hers are just as valid as yours. So you might be better off with baby steps rather than checking everything.....can you be more specific about what you want? Do you want her to kiss you more or do you want porn sex? Big difference, and I'll tell you now that of you're bringing porn stuff up that will cause a sh!t ton of resentment. Please remember that you're having sex three times a week so you're not exactly going without. Choose one thing that pushes boundaries a little and gently try it.....one thing at a time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you for responding. 

I think I did not explain the questionnaire properly. Only the responses we both agreed on were shown. Any responses I checked that she didn't would not show and any she checked that I didn't would not show. The idea is to show what both parties are into and not create pressure or judgements. Only the stuff we do as a couple now were shown as mutual interests. So apparently I should deduct that my wife has reached the point of exploration with no other items of interest. 

What do I want. 

First, I don't want porn sex. Although I have viewed porn in the past I don't want that. This is sad but when I would view porn in the past I would search for a woman who would look the most similar to my wife and then see what they do and imagine that as my wife. Not being a **** per se but appearing to be actively into sex. 

I want to encourage my spouse to get into sex. Into the idea that we have this bond and that within this bond we have the power together to explore each other and have fun doing it in a loving and trusting way. It is not even about frequency. It is about quality. BTW, I've told her this is what I'm looking for because she said the same thing as you regarding the porn thing. 

What I have at the moment is a person who is trying by putting out regularly. Unfortunately, what we are doing is physical only. No real interest is involved and too many rules (see list above). It is just hurry up and lets get this over with instead of lets enjoy the gift of each other.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Lila said:


> I'm not blaming you for anything but technically, you have changed your views about sex and now status quo is unacceptable.
> 
> The facts are that your wife showed you before marriage that she was "shy" about sex. There is no bait and switch going on here. She was "shy" about sex back then and she's still "shy" about sex now.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. I'll check out that post. 

After reviewing and reflecting on a lot of what not only you said above and what a few others have said. I agree that I may be obsessing over this. I tend to have that tendency when something worth while doesn't seem to be working. Obsess until I figure out a way to make it work. 

The pressure and resent issue you bring up rang a bell. Given your comment on my obsession I can see how that could lead to both for her. If she is feeling this way I believe your right, time is the only thing that will fix it. 

The only thing that is bothering me about what you said is the shy factor. To me in the early days of our relationship that was her saying I'm shy but willing. What I have seen over the past 13 years isn't a shy person but a person who has absolutely no personality when it comes to sex. It is just like I get nothing but a body to do PIV sex with. No emotion, no suggestions, no sexy ideas. 

Not to mention. As for the shy point what I was trying to explain above was: I got I'm shy when we were dating. Things aren't just right when we first married. I'm pregnant what do you expect. I'm tired from the kids (I would give her a pass on this one if I thought it just wasn't an easy excuse for her, she is smart). Now the kids are getting older and the excuses are getting harder to dig up on her side. 

Now the last few years I've been beginning to obsess over it. I'm tired of listening to excuses from her. I"m tired of being patient. If she is just not into it don't string me along to believe there is a glimmer of hope. Just like I knew who she was, why would she lead me along if the whole time she is incapable of providing to my needs for intimacy? It's not like this idea is new. Yes, the idea is becoming more vocal from my side which is probably turning up the heat on her side but is that wrong? 

I've been trying to fix it. Looking for solutions to nudge her to begin to think about sex. To develop a sexual persona per se. But each time I try something I get shot down like she is unwilling to talk about or see or try something. It is like I just hit a brick wall or that she is turned off by the fact that I just might want to talk to her about something I read about that might be fun. That the idea of doing XYZ turns me on when thought about in the context of her and I.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I need her to communicate to me not lead me along as to who she is. I think I have her figured out but she is unwilling to admit to herself who she is. 

What I'm trying to accomplish with this post is:

1. Are my sexual/intimacy needs and expectations too high? 
The answer from here sounds like, no but you can't force her to be like you. I get that. 
2. How do I get her to open up to idea's?
I have heard from many that I should be happy with what I've got. OK - but what if things could be better. Should I not try? So far she has not told me that she can't go any further. 
I have heard be patient, be up front,be specific as to what I want to do - OK - will try to do more of it.
3. How do I get her to be honest about who she is to me? 
If she could explain to me who she is, why my ideas seem off the wall to her I might be able to understand and accept. Instead I get a person who is not approachable to this kind of conversation.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Coldie said:


> I feel like I went through the same thing for years, but me and my wife married young. Although we changed our lives and pretended to be adults together, buying a house, having kids, she never changed sexually. It was like a woman, all the sexy parts, with the mind of a high school girl that hesitated during oral and never really initiated. I chased her, and it just stayed that way.
> 
> What's sad to me was, and I knew it, if she was divorced and back on the market, she would have been the woman sexually I always wanted. She was a pleaser and had a desire to be a good woman and wife, but for whatever reason, sex just didn't register. I knew even a random one night stand would get more enthusiasm than I could ever get. Just knowing her personality, she loved me, but sex was the least important thing in her life. She already had me.
> 
> I had to change that.


How did you change that?


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Thor said:


> Good that there's no abuse or trauma.
> 
> Your wife may have some toxic shame around sex. THis is fixable with either self education or IC. Basically, toxic shame is a defective thought and emotion process based in false beliefs. She may not believe in her core that it is ok for her to enjoy or desire sex. She needs to learn that good people enjoy sex, and in fact sex is a good and important part of life.
> 
> ...


I think you got confused that Coldie's response was mine, the OP. 

I don't know if my wife was out in the market if her interest would change. It might, I have no idea. 

I do sometimes wonder if I should get her out of the home. She is a SAHM. She volunteers a lot at school and has a few girl gouts she meets up with monthly but she really doesn't get exposure to the world outside her comfort zone. 

Anyway, thank you for your response.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

Happilymarried25 said:


> I think you should be happy having sex 3 times a week. That's more than most people get. I doubt she is going to change so just accept it and be happy.


Happy25 - I like your idea. I am trying to be happy. I know I am very blessed. I just want to get her to open up. I also don't want her putting out 3 x per week if she isn't into it. I want what is best for both of us. Not just me.


----------



## Sampson001 (May 30, 2013)

James2020 said:


> A few things here...
> 
> James2020 - I like the way you think.
> 
> ...


I hear you. Thanks for nice words above. I am truly blessed. I am obsessing a little and will do my best to keep in perspective. 

I do want to try and figure this out and I appreciate all the suggestions/points everyone is making. Some of this stuff I haven't really considered. Or I have but when you hear from someone else it seems a little more real.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sampson001 said:


> Thank you for responding.
> 
> I think I did not explain the questionnaire properly. Only the responses we both agreed on were shown. Any responses I checked that she didn't would not show and any she checked that I didn't would not show. The idea is to show what both parties are into and not create pressure or judgements. Only the stuff we do as a couple now were shown as mutual interests. So apparently I should deduct that my wife has reached the point of exploration with no other items of interest.
> 
> ...



I understand, and I think in a perfect world what you're looking for is fair. I had to ask about the porn because this is common with men and many don't seem to understand the impact on their intimacy with their wives and the pressure women feel because of it, so i'm glad this isn't an issue for you. But there's probably frustration for her because she tries in the way she's capable of trying and it's not good enough. You want something she isn't capable of giving right now, but she might be with baby steps and patience. You're asking her to make a big journey, and the pressuring will only serve to clam her up.

You know, when I first met my hb I couldn't finish when he gave me oral, which he did willingly. And he wanted me to soooooo bad, but I just couldn't do that level of intimacy. I have intimacy issues in general...He would gently try every now and again, and in the mean time we built our intimacy outside the bedroom. He let me know that he had my back and I was safe with him. Now I can't wait to get it from him and sometimes it's the only way I can finish. Don't know if any of that applies to you guys, it's just my personal story.

Have you tried sitting with her over some wine and dessert when there's no sex involved and asking her about what she likes? What turns her on? What bothers her? What she would like from you in a perfect world?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Sampson, in your other thread "out of sync" you wrote this:



> I am married to a woman who was raised in a family that appears to never express their feelings. To keep things to themselves.
> 
> I am from a family that talked about things.
> 
> ...


You knew what type of person your wife was and what her family was like, but you married her anyway. Her personality and behavior has stayed consistent, but you are insisting on changing her to fit your personality. I have experience with this, I am the wife who my husband wanted to change since before marriage.

I will give you a glimpse of what goes on in her head when you are having one of your "helpful" talks:

Gee, didn't we increase the frequency to what he wanted? Why is he still complaining? It is never good enough, is it? Another article about sex? Gee whiz does this ever end, I shouldn't have married this guy if I knew he was going to carry on about it like this. I don't feel the same about sex, can't he just see it?

Sooner or later, the frequency will die because she will feel, why do it when I'm being critisized anyway. No matter how you phrase it, or how fun you try to make it sound, she is who you married. She is the same person who you accepted before, now you are trying to change her. This is what I go through with my husband all of the time and it is frustrating from our end too.

Just take into consideration that you are having sex 3 times a week, this may be the limit on what she is able to push herself to. If you wanted someone who was like you, you should have found them. But you want to mold her into what you want and get frustrated when she doesn't fit.

I don't want to seem like I'm beating you up, but your posts scream " why doesn't she want to be more like me?". And that is not accepting or loving her for who she is and how she expresses her sexuality. Think about how she feels, she may be just as frustrated as you but on the opposite spectrum. 

People who marry someone expecting them to change should not be married at all.


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

It's true that you can't change someone's sexual flavor. If they're vanilla, they're vanilla. Even if they'd want to be other than vanilla for you, it just won't happen.  So can you live with the vanilla forever? Something to really think about.


----------



## roostr (Oct 20, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I understand, and I think in a perfect world what you're looking for is fair. I had to ask about the porn because this is common with men and many don't seem to understand the impact on their intimacy with their wives and the pressure women feel because of it, so i'm glad this isn't an issue for you. But there's probably frustration for her because she tries in the way she's capable of trying and it's not good enough. You want something she isn't capable of giving right now, but she might be with baby steps and patience. You're asking her to make a big journey, and the pressuring will only serve to clam her up.
> 
> You know, when I first met my hb I couldn't finish when he gave me oral, which he did willingly. And he wanted me to soooooo bad, but I just couldn't do that level of intimacy. I have intimacy issues in general...He would gently try every now and again, and in the mean time we built our intimacy outside the bedroom. He let me know that he had my back and I was safe with him. Now I can't wait to get it from him and sometimes it's the only way I can finish. Don't know if any of that applies to you guys, it's just my personal story.
> 
> ...


I think what you said makes a lot of sense. It begins outside of the bedroom. It seems to me that a lot of people complain about vanilla sex of a lack of sex and wonder what they can do to change their partner, when in reality, the only chance they have is to change things outside of the bedroom. 

I've worked on my own self and have seen an improvement in the bedroom. It took me a long time to realize that the sex wouldn't change until certain other things changed leading up to sex. I now know that with a woman, it's all about the state of the relationship and it is directly related to their desire for intimacy. At least this is how I understand it.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, nothing says, "you're defective" quite like having a spouse that's always trying to "fix" something about you. Your wife is probably more resistant the more you try to fix her. I would be. No one likes to be told they're defective or broken or never quite good enough. You wanting to "fix" this problem, when you're pretty clear that "this problem" is actually "_her_", is doing a lot of harm to your marriage and not a lot of good for your sex life. 

If you do read _His Needs, Her Needs_, pay special attention to the section of the book that mentions lovebusters - particularly disrespectful judgments.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

techmom said:


> You knew what type of person your wife was and what her family was like, but you married her anyway. Her personality and behavior has stayed consistent, but you are insisting on changing her to fit your personality.


No, he is trying to engage his wife. Wanting to try "new things" is not trying to change a person. Unless of course you think marriage is about never doing anything new.




> I will give you a glimpse of what goes on in her head when you are having one of your "helpful" talks:
> 
> Gee, didn't we increase the frequency to what he wanted? Why is he still complaining? It is never good enough, is it? Another article about sex? Gee whiz does this ever end, I shouldn't have married this guy if I knew he was going to carry on about it like this. I don't feel the same about sex, can't he just see it?
> 
> ...


Ya, what an ahole this guy is  Another example of a man that desires his wife, simply wants to try new things and god forbid..*gulp*...communicate with her.





> And that is not accepting or loving her for who she is and how she expresses her sexuality. Think about how she feels, she may be just as frustrated as you but on the opposite spectrum.


Ok, so what is the solution? To suck it up buttercup and only take into consideration her side of things?




> People who marry someone expecting them to change should not be married at all.


That is uncalled for. He desires his wife. He wants to try new things. He wants to communicate with her. He isn't trying to change her.

So that's it? That's your advice? That he shouldn't be married? I know you aren't too fond of men, but try to see that he cares about a relationship with his wife...if you can.


----------



## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

soulpotato said:


> OP, that is so sad.  Please don't accept a lifetime of that! It sounds like your wife is very inhibited and has serious hang-ups about intimacy. Has she always been this way? If she's content with being that way, there's not much you can do.
> 
> What you desire IS possible! Don't give up.


I have to disagree. It's not that it is sad; it's just her. She isn't into sex. 

She's not going to change. What you desire is possible, but not with her. It's like getting a man who doesn't like to communicate to talk. Just ain't gonna happen.


----------



## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

Sampson001,

We are in the same boat my friend. I feel your pain and hopefully things can change because I really think they can. I have to disagree with the naysayers in these threads thinking that people won't break out of a vanilla sex life because personally trying new things in marriage is not out of the ordinary. 

I just scheduled our first appointment for MC and it's going down this week. I already know feelings are going to get hurt (mine and hers), but this is something that needs to be done. She text me today that she was glad I set up the appointment and thanked me for taking the time out of my day in order to get us through this roadblock. So my suggestion is offer up counselling for you two and see if she would be willing to go.

Good Luck and stay positive!

Here is my thread if you are interested on my side of the story.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/211946-asking-your-significant-other-perform-certain-acts.html


----------



## Juice (Dec 5, 2013)

vellocet said:


> No, he is trying to engage his wife. Wanting to try "new things" is not trying to change a person. Unless of course you think marriage is about never doing anything new.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great Post!:smthumbup:


----------



## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

ebp123 said:


> I have to disagree. It's not that it is sad; it's just her. She isn't into sex.
> 
> She's not going to change. What you desire is possible, but not with her. It's like getting a man who doesn't like to communicate to talk. Just ain't gonna happen.


What I meant is that it's sad that he's in this situation.

And by saying what he desires is possible, I didn't necessarily mean with her! But that's up to him to decide - whether he wants to stay for other reasons, or if it's just not enough. I didn't mean that he should expect her to change, because as I said in another post, you can't change someone's 'flavor'.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

4) He can try to get her to agree to try, and then hopefully enjoy, a broader sex life within the marriage.


----------



## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Lila said:


> You're right, wanting to try "new things" is not trying to change a person. It's when a person can't accept NO for an answer that it becomes a problem. That's when the feelings of inadequacy and deep hurt start creeping in.


I agree. However, on the other side of the coin, when one spouse has to give in for the rest of their lives and accept that "NO", that isn't good either.



> And for the record, no one said the OP is an a*hole.


No, but the person to whom I was replying is a chronic man ranter and wouldn't he have to be an ahole for her to have such a contemptible view of him when he is trying to have a healthy relationship with his wife? 
I mean really, telling him he has no business being married?? Wow, just wow.




> What people are trying to help OP understand is that he knowingly married a woman who never hinted at being sexually adventurous. Now, years later, he's confirmed that she's not interested in sexual exploration or communication. Trying to convince her otherwise is only going to lead to more frustration on his part and eventual resentment on both their parts.


Yes, I believe people are trying to help him see this. But not the person to whom I was responding.




> There are always solutions to every problem, and as far as I can see, OP has at least three:
> 
> 1) Convince her to go to M.C. to learn to communicate better. I do agree that his wife needs to state her desires, or lack thereof, clearly and confidently. M.C. can help with this.
> 
> ...


All of those are definitely ways he can handle this.

Or he can stop trying and find a hobby. I'd recommend option 1 so that way they can get it all out on the table. Then he can make a decision about how he wants to proceed. Option 2, IMO, is really not an option. I've lived this one(although in my case it was total rejection) and that didn't turn out well.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I see things quite differently than most of the posts:

From what I've read, the OP's wife:

* Stimulates herself during intercourse with him.
* Uses sex toys in his presence.

This does not sound like someone who is inhibited or stuck in "vanilla" mode. Also, on top of sex 3x per week, she masturbates (but "just for release"). So, it sounds like she has a strong sex drive, and he is not pressing her for more sex sessions than she would engage in otherwise.

I see a trend that her needs dominate any encounters:

* She stimulates herself to orgasm, and then he has his.
* He goes down on her until she orgasms, and then he has his.
* She uses her toy to finish, and then he gets his.
* She gets a backrub, or a kiss, until she has had enough.

IMO, the problem is not that she is uptight, or low drive. It is that she just wants to get herself off and then be done with it. She is a female counterpart to a guy who ignores his wife but masturbates to porn.

So, the OP should not be asking "why will she not do" this or that and trying to expand her horizons. He should be asking "why does she only focus on getting herself off and leaves me to catch up?"

I think this actually portends worse for their relationship. The advantage of her not being uptight is outweighed by the issue of her simply not caring to try any harder. She gets off and everything else is a chore.


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

OP,

Please please please... Read MMSLP. Do it now. Results guaranteed.


----------



## bestwife (May 10, 2014)

vellocet: I agree with you more than you can think


----------

