# Realizing we are better off as best friends...



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

So, this is what has happened. A true heart to heart between my husband and I and despite our loving each other, it isn't going to work. As many of you know, we have spent 17 years lobbing hand grenades at each other and bitterness and resentment on both sides got the best of us. We have been to MC and IC and there is just too much pain to overcome. I hurt him deeply with words early on in our marriage and it scarred his heart. He in turn ignored me and acted like I didn't exist. Something my parents did my entire childhood. It scarred me. Too much pain to overcome on both our sides. 
We are like oil and water as husband and wife. I am an extrovert and he is an introvert. That used to work until all the resentment got tossed in to the mix. Add in sexual issues and it doesn't work. It just doesn't. 
What does work? Our deep commitment to each other as dear friends and parents. We do truly love each other. He really is my best friend and someone I would die for. I know he would do the same for me. We also dearly love our children and the home and life we have built for them and ourselves. 
We have agreed to stay married until our youngest son graduates from high school, 4 1/2 years from now. I know many out there will say this is wrong. I disagree. We truly love each other, we just don't "work" as a couple. We show affection to each other. A touch, a look, a hair stroke, a kiss and sex. We really do care about each other. There is just too much to overcome. We rarely argue and we have a great time together. We really are best friends. We are going out tonight to see a local band and we do this every Friday night and have a blast. We love going out together.
Sometimes the writing is on the wall. I came here Feb of 2010. I won't go in to what my post was about, suffice it to say, I was trying to bring back feelings and experiences. We have been on a rollercoaster since trying lots of things and counseling. At some point, as Deejo says, you realize your relationship is in the death spiral. I know we are long past that. We have moved in to the friends zone and I think I am okay with that. 
Am I sad? Yes, for sure. He is the love of my life and I know I am his. Sometimes, love just isn't enough. A phrase that is often used but so so true. Sometimes enough is enough and you decide to move on. We have caused each other enough pain to last a lifetime and it is very hard to erase the past, no matter how much you want to move past it. 
In the meantime, we will continue to love each other. Neither one of us wants to change that.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I am sorry to read of this on one level, but I understand too. At some point hitting your head against the wall doesn't make a doorway.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm truly sorry, but it is heartening to see that you can end it with this realization.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

((((bug hug))))


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Brennan,

My heart is heavy.......................................

I feel you long for something in your marriage but you don't have it! And this is the reality you are trying to accept! 

Deep breathing..................................


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Brennan - Maybe you both were trying too hard to fit a perfect mold of what you thought marriage was supposed to be?

Marriages are up and down and it takes both to work at it. I'm 18yrs in and recovering almost losing mine. 

Maybe now that you've taken this approach - you will get closer as the next few years go by?

I wish you well - you sound like you're taking what life has thrown you.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Brennan;
Not that you should must or can, but many would accept your situation as maybe not Cinderella and King Shrek but better than average or better than better than average.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

It ain't over til it's over ... sometimes even after you decide it's over.

Just 'be' for a while, instead of wondering what you are supposed to be.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Brennan said:


> Our deep commitment to each other as dear friends and parents. We do truly love each other. He really is my best friend and someone I would die for. I know he would do the same for me. We also dearly love our children and the home and life we have built for them and ourselves.


I am so confused. I guess i thought this is what a good marriage would be but i must be misunderstanding something.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Alot can happen in 4 1/2 years living under the same roof. Feelings & desires can never be predicted entirely, Life would be so easy IF it worked this way, things take us by surprise, we take ourselves by surprise! You have alot of history. 

I have seen many times in life, when others "give up" on what they were trying so desperately to 'fix", slowly the answer unfolds. 

Sorry to hear  but as Deejo said, It ain't over till it's over.


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## franklinfx (Apr 7, 2009)

:scratchhead: Im confused by the OP as well , are you saying youre getting a divorce but not for another 4&1/2 years? W/ all due respect, thats seems a bit silly to me. Alota stuff can happen in almost half a decade, youll probably change your minds 10X before that. 

heck, have you watched the news lately, nuclear meltdowns, eathquakes ,sunamys, wars..... the world might not even exisit then.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Is it wrong for me finding this some what insulting. You guys are best friends, their is still some sex,lots of intimacy, no major fights,no abuse.It sounds like you guys made it overthe hump and just don't realize it. At this point in life isn't suppose to be settling down into the companion stage anyways. Not at all trying to invalidate yor feelings it's just wow I was trying to get my marraige there and its shocking to here someone have the type of marriage I want to have getting a D even 5years from now.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> It ain't over til it's over ... sometimes even after you decide it's over.
> 
> Just 'be' for a while, instead of wondering what you are supposed to be.


Totally agree and that is the approach we are going to take. We are both exhausted trying to figure "us" out and I think this is a decision that works. Granted alot can change and maybe if we just "are" we can chill out and figure out the future.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I wanted to explain a bit further. Yes, we are better than most but is that all? We can go for days or weeks without talking about anything but superficial stuff and rarely have a conversation about "us" without it breaking down in to the blame game. We can go for weeks and at one point 4 months without sex because he feels disconnected (his words) from me. How do you solve the disconnect unless you discuss it? To me, you can't. His approach is to move on. He doesn't want to discuss anything in the past and just go forward. Perhaps that is a good approach, I don't know. My approach is to discuss some of the things in our past so that history doesn't repeat itself. Is that good? Not sure. Either way, we get nowhere. 
We had a very frank discussion and we both agreed we are not happy with "us". Neither one of us thinks that is going to change so we have decided to stay together for the time being and divorce in a few years. We both realize that if we skip the crazy relationship stuff, maybe we do have a chance. Like you all said, 4 1/2 years IS a long time and anything can change.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

I can see what he is saying and what you are saying and the clarification helps thank you  the original post made things sound a lot better then what they are. I hate that disconnected argument or we aren't that compatible anymore...its like really you don't like x,y,z, anymore huh you just keep doing it for craps and giggles I guess then right. It has always sounded hollow to me and even more so now that I am on the recieving end of it. 

So feel for you Brennan I think those words hurt me more then anything else in my marriage and I can understand the ending it and I can also understand that you guys are still friends and waiting till last kid is done with school.

I also understand about the blame game part, I try not to do it but I get drug into it everytime, either that or the so its all my fault/sympathy game,sometimes you know you just want to talkabout the issues at hand and find a solution for that issue before moving to the next.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Niceguy13 said:


> I can see what he is saying and what you are saying and the clarification helps thank you  the original post made things sound a lot better then what they are. I hate that disconnected argument or we aren't that compatible anymore...its like really you don't like x,y,z, anymore huh you just keep doing it for craps and giggles I guess then right. It has always sounded hollow to me and even more so now that I am on the recieving end of it.
> 
> So feel for you Brennan I think those words hurt me more then anything else in my marriage and I can understand the ending it and I can also understand that you guys are still friends and waiting till last kid is done with school.
> 
> I also understand about the blame game part, I try not to do it but I get drug into it everytime, either that or the so its all my fault/sympathy game,sometimes you know you just want to talkabout the issues at hand and find a solution for that issue before moving to the next.


We have both tried to change but it is futile. I asked him to read the No More Mister Nice Guy book which he did (bad approach as he should have read it on his own) and he cherry picked his way through the issues. i.e honesty dump that hurt me terribly but then failed to do 90% of the other things. He thinks because now he is "honest" that he has changed. The only thing that changed was me feeling more like crap because so many of the things in our marriage I held to be truths were lies. Had he coupled being honest with the other things mentioned in the book, I think things would have gone a much different direction. I don't think he sees that though. I have asked him to come to this website or go to Athol's blog but he won't. He has often said that things are "good" between us. Good I guess means we no longer fight or argue or cry or yell. That's "good" to him. To me? That's the plain of lethal flatness when you just don't care about the relationship anymore. That is where we are. 
We have both agreed that we are not happy. In all honesty, I think he is but his unhappiness comes from seeing me struggle. He would truly be perfectly happy sitting in from of the t.v, or on his laptop, or watching a game. He would be perfectly happy having sex once every few weeks or once a month when he feels like it. So me, 39 years of age should look forward to watching tv, or coming here for support and a lacking sex life. I am 39, not 79. In his defense though, he does try. We go out every Friday night to a bar that has local bands. He goes but I know that isn't his thing. He really would rather be at home but he does make the effort and frankly, once he is there, he has a blast. Last night he told me (again), how much fun I am. I think I know him better than he knows himself. Now, if I could only get him to go skydiving. I am an adrenaline junky and I think deep down he is too. Push him out of the plane?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brennan,

Have you ever been to individual counseling?


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

This is sad news Brennan.

My one thought is that waiting 4.5 years is completely pointless if you want second marriage or anything other than being pumped and dumped for a sex life. 

Your Sex Rank will fall from age 39 to 44/45, so you're better off doing something about it now.

Also 4.5 years just means he thinks you aren't going anywhere.. ever. He won't learn anything until start the process for real.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Atholk said:


> This is sad news Brennan.
> 
> My one thought is that waiting 4.5 years is completely pointless if you want second marriage or anything other than being pumped and dumped for a sex life.
> 
> ...


Right now, I don't care about my sex rank. I know what you are saying though Athol, I really do. Our kids, in particular our youngest would be devastated if we split up now. He is a heart on his sleeve kind of kid, sort of like me personality wise. Family means everything to him, it really does. Things are actually quite good. We have come to a point were we don't have much conflict anymore, namely because I have given up. As Michzz said perfectly, "banging your head against a wall constantly doesn't create a doorway". So true. 
Athol, he knows I am going somewhere. It scares him big time. He isn't under the delusion that I will be around forever. He actually knows this and it saddens him. Even sadder that he is such a conflict avoider that he buries his head in the sand over the whole thing. 
Who knows what 4 1/2 years can bring. Maybe an epiphany on his part of maybe we just go our separate ways. Either way, I know I tried. I know he did too.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Brennan,
> 
> Have you ever been to individual counseling?


Yes, from age 13-17. Age 19. Age 24-26. All of last year. Guess it worked.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Yes, from age 13-17. Age 19. Age 24-26. All of last year. Guess it worked.


When we "get stuck" on something, the pattern is to go all the way to the precipice and then....(to quote major misfit) "evolve".

The blameshifting you describe in your husband is this sort of thing. When we get to the wall, it often melts away as we gain understanding of each other.

Sporadic counseling sessions help in this regard. But, the emotional "getting it" inevitably happens "when it happens" - not during that hour.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

So sweeping all the bull**** and psychobabble aside for a moment, you're basically locked in a mutually codependent relationship that's functioning according to what's normal for these things. 

And you want more excitement. I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, this is the reason MOST WOMEN your age divorce. 

But at the end, you need to examine whether not being in this relationship would or could be materially different than this one? In short, what happens to the next relationship? That is uniquely your problem to solve and no one else's.


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## anx (Nov 30, 2010)

This is sad to read. I hope the next 4.5 years bring something good for you. At least you have agreed on where you are at, which can take years. 

Best of luck


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Brennan - I am sad when I read this. I have read your other post and realize that you are dissatisfied with the quality of your relationship. Can I ask you to describe what exactly you would make you happy in a relationship. What are the most important elements of a relationship that would make you happy. What are the changes you husband can make that would make you satisfied. Just the top 4 let's say. 

I have to admit I can not understand why you have given up on you marriage I especially don't understand why you plan to stay together and not continue to work on the bond between you. You are there, what would it hurt to continue. Conrad is right, you are working too hard, why not plan to take a break from working on the relationship and each person work individually. 

Brennan don't know if this is true but have you considered that there may be something that makes you unhappy that has less to do with your husband and would you be willing to explore that possibility? This is my opinion of course but, I feel so unsettled as i think about you marriage. I am not living your life but I have a strong feeling that there is enough here to make each of you happy if you would lower your expectation and look at what you do have. I don't see that a complete break in your marriage is necessary. Is it that your husband is not the man you want him to be? 

Let me ask you this, have you ever considered that we expect too much from marriages? Is the expectation of excitement, stimulating intellectual exchange, travel, money, big house, wild sex, romance, more than any relationship can provide? Suppose you moderated your expectations to just the 4 most important elements and let the rest go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Suggest you pick up a copy of "Committed: A Skeptic Makes Peace with Marriage" written by Elizabeth Gilbert.

It is distinctly, not a self-help book. But, it gives some great insight and perspective about how we (particularly in western culture) think about marriage.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

I truly appreciate the input. Perhaps I do expect too much, this is something I need to chew on a bit and Deejo, I will order that book.
Catherine, no he isn't the person I need him to be. I have outlined my needs and he has tried to meet some of them but simply cannot on the others. He will always be passive aggressive and a conflict avoider in relationships. I cannot change that, I can only work around that if I choose to. What I cannot understand is he was not like this when we dated. He was a heart on his sleeve no holds bar kind of guy. He spoke his mind and backed up his words. I guess the hurt he has felt changed him in many ways. The hurt I feel changed me as well. 
He chooses to deal with this by rug sweeping and going forward. To me, and perhaps I am wrong, doing that doesn't solve/resolve anything. Putting on blinders to the past is not something I am comfortable with. Maybe I need to get over that discomfort and change my approach. :scratchhead:
For now though, a friendship works for us and as SA said so eloquently, sometimes when you stop pushing, the solution happens. So in the meantime, we are just going to stop pushing. The chips will fall where they fall.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I think you have a good plan, Brennan, but you both need to be aware that you will each be very vulnerable to affairs now, perhaps you more so than him. You might want to discuss this issue if you haven't.

Someone said that perhaps you shoud lower your expectations--and on the one hand, I get that--some people have unrealistic expectations for what marriage can offer us. On the other hand, I believe there is a point below which each of us cannot go and still be happy and, besides, lowering expectations regarding marriage is one thing, while lowering one's expectations for life is another. When the marriage gets in the way of one's expectations for life, perhaps the marriage should go. If, for example, one partner does not care for some things that are really important to you, and even actively interferes (travel, sex, spontaneity are examples that come to mind), then going it alone is probably better. I should premise this by saying that each of us should be responsible for the basics first (financially stable, making sure kids feel loved and have their basic needs for food, home, health care, and education, met), then reaching for more to fulfill one's own dreams is never wrong. I would rather not reach my dreams despite trying than to just give them up. (And yes, each of us needs to evaluate how many dreams and how realistic they are--but that has to be a personal thing, rather than someone else trying to tell us why our dreams are "wrong.")

I do not think it is at all wrong, Brennan, that you want more out of life than he does. Neither of you is wrong; you are just different individuals. Isn't this the essence of incompatability? As long as you are willing and able to take responsibility for what you want, then who has the right to stand in your way? Some of us need to keep striving to feel alive--and obtaining the actual goal is so much less important than the freedom to strive. One person ends up really unhappy if there is an imbalance here--either the non-striver feels anxious and put-upon if the striver keeps striving, or the striver feels caged and bitter if s/he stops striving to accommodate the anxious, unhappy non-striver. 

I think this imbalance is so much more obvious when the woman is the one with more dreams---and too often, she is accused of simply being "bored" or "wanting more excitement," as though it is a deficiency or selfishness in her, when it is the very essence of her. Husbands seem more often to be very uncomfortable being left at home alone if a wife takes off to travel, for example (even when they both work). I have seen more men than women complain about having to take on the double burden of home and work for a traveling spouse--and I do not mean this as a criticism, just an observation. The point is, a man who is comfortable in his dream often seems to feel more threatened by his wife's continued dreaming, while wives seem to feel more comfortable saying, "Go ahead; I'll be here when you get back." This could very much be simply a reflection of the kind of people I know, so I hope no one takes offense. But a "nested" wife seems more often happy and comfortable more often with a "soaring" spouse, whereas a "nested" husband seems much less so if his wife wants to soar. 

OK, now I've probably gotten everyone confused, but I hope that you, at least, Brennan, get what I am saying!


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Sisters,

Very astute assessment. I got what you are saying loud and clear.


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## Niceguy13 (Apr 7, 2011)

Being a nested husband it was never my wife's "soaring" that bothered me it was the fact she never wanted to stop by the nest. I always encouraged her to soar and it is the primary reason I stay nested. We both wanted our children to be reared by one of us. I think nesting husbands are more acutely aware that a soaring spouse is less commited to the relationship.

It has also come to my attention that most men tend to be words of affirmation quality time or physical contact for how they express their love. I.e. We like to hear yes honey your an amazing man, or yes honey I would love to do x with you and the physical contact keeps aggresiveness at bay. It gives us that sense that you are still coming home to the bed every night. 

Most women I have come across even the ones here at TAM seem to be words, gifts, and acts people. So I think it stresses a marriage to be in "opposite" mode. I.e. my case if I was the one working all day Then the wife would have been missing me so I could get that quality time with her when I got off work whenever I needed it and she wouldn't have someone at work wooing her with a fantasy land.

@bren not trying to change your mind Bren but you have recenttly brought up those "lost" dreams of his? It sounds like that is one of your personal big problems with the marriage and it sounds like a fun one to fix, if not expensive.


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