# Tough Love Parenting



## Corpuswife

Any of you parent of late teen to older teens been through the tough love scenario?

I am looking for some support and input on my now recent 18 year old daughter. She's been on a downward spiral since she turned 16 (divorced was a 6 months prior). She was angry and "acting out" for about a year. Now, this anger has subsided and she is actually quite loving and affectionate. 

We have dealt with substance abuse; a wrecked car and head injury; not showing up at night; (1) rehab stay at age 17; kicked out two times for not abiding by rules; now 3 arrests ( 3 PI's).

She is on medications for depression and anxiety. She takes this on a semi regular basis (not very effective). I have encouraged her to see a counselor but this is up to her. She is no longer living at my home and living with a boyfriend's mother (BF in jail now). 

Obviously bad choices have and are being made. My ex and I are trying not to enable our daughter. It's so difficult and we have really stepped up to the plate and supported each other. She has a sense of entitlement; stubborn and is clueless about life in general. 

Of course, we have educated her about depression; substance abuse; making choices. We have encouraged her to take control of her life and we would help her as long as she helped herself. 

We are "toughing" it out. Any of you been through something similar? Is there a light? Of course, a parents worse fear is her harming herself or others doing harm to her.


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## bkaydezz

I will share with you that my sister has been in a simlar situation since the age of 15 with rebellion and drug abuse, she had a huge problem hitchhiking and we worried about her so much with this as you never know what will happen. I cant even begin to tell you the amount of situations she has been in due to her abuse.
My parents have always tryed to do whats good for her as what they can do, because regardless of the effort they put in she turns right back around and starts all over. every. single. time.
Tough love i have heard is a good way to let your children know that you are a parent! Not someone who is going to bail them out everytime they get stuck in a rut they wilingly put themselves in.
I feel sorry for you. You cant help but worry, have restless nights and missed phone calls. I see it as yo uhave done your part as a parent. Let her do hers as an adult now if she chooses so. you are only nurturing her progression in all of this. I know its hard for you too!!!!! i am by no means telling you to quit taking care of her or loving her. just simply let her find her way. its been a never ending situation with my sister. do i think she has it in her to change....yes. will she? i will never know. she is the only one who can do that.


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## Corpuswife

Thank you bkaydezz for sharing! It's a horrible burden to bare as a parent. I guess she will never know until she is a mother-hopefully not soon!

I posted because I know I am not the only one but it can feel like you are the only one with a serious wayward child!


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## bkaydezz

It is my sister.

But i cant imagine being a parent to a child who plays with life and finds not enough remorse and guilt to turn it around.

Its hard being the older sister and watching it let alone the mother.


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## Corpuswife

My son is having a difficult time talking about his younger sister. He's 23 years old and told me "I can't talk about this. I don't know what to do." It's so painful for us. We weren't a perfect family but damn...she had it pretty good. 

I am praying that when pain outweighs any pleasure....she will turn. I am afraid that I may have years to go.


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## costa200

Ideally tough love starts before they get that feeling of entitlement. Once that settles in its very hard and painful.


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## turnera

The best thing you can do at this point is continue communication. Don't fix things for her - make it clear that you consider that to be NOT helping her - but remind her when you can that you love her and want her to make the right choices, tell her you're there whenever she needs someone to talk to, with no judging involved. 

She'll come around eventually.


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## Corpuswife

Turnera: Thank you! I am having lunch with her today. I told her that we don't need to discuss anything serious. I plan on talking about whatever topics come up, besides HER life. Unless she discusses this on her own, it's off limits to me. I am tired.

Not fixing things for her..is important. I know this and it's a struggle. I have to say "I trust that you can find a way."

Gosh, this has been a heck of a 3 years!


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## Runs like Dog

What problem or problems and in what order, are you attempting to address and why are those issues the ones you want to examine?


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## Corpuswife

Run like a dog: They are in no particular order from my first post.

However, I am just looking for support from other parents that have wayward young adults.


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## lovingsummer

I can't imagine what you are going through. My daughter is 19 and moved in with BF a year ago. Within the first few months, they got their electricity turned off for not paying it (thank heavens it was summer). It was so hard not to go up and "save" her because I wanted to soooo bad. It sounds like you guys are doing the right thing but oh.. the heartbreak


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## costa200

lovingsummer said:


> I can't imagine what you are going through. My daughter is 19 and moved in with BF a year ago. Within the first few months, they got their electricity turned off for not paying it (thank heavens it was summer). It was so hard not to go up and "save" her because I wanted to soooo bad. It sounds like you guys are doing the right thing but oh.. the heartbreak


Love and shack can only go for so long...


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## Corpuswife

lovingsummer said:


> I can't imagine what you are going through. My daughter is 19 and moved in with BF a year ago. Within the first few months, they got their electricity turned off for not paying it (thank heavens it was summer). It was so hard not to go up and "save" her because I wanted to soooo bad. It sounds like you guys are doing the right thing but oh.. the heartbreak


Yes....doing the right thing is often difficult as a parent as a person! Electricity is one thing....it may be uncomfortable for a bit but they still have shelter!!!:smthumbup:


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## lovingsummer

Yea, I was so thankful it was summer  My H and I are pretty strict parents by today's standards in our community which is sad. We have also made our 13 year old apologize to her school bus driver for being rude and disrespectful... in front of all the kids because she was rude and disrespectful in front of the kids why not apologize in front of them... So much for being "cool" she thought... We have also stripped bedrooms of EVERYTHING except their bed, blankets and pillow. Last year when our 13 year old was in 6th grade, she thought it would be cool to make fun and be mean to other kids that had less than she did. After explaining that some people just don't have money for new clothes, brand name clothes, etc. and giving her examples of why they may not and telling her that if she did it again, we were taking all her "name brand" clothes away... we were buying her sweatsuits and she would wear those for a week. She decided she didn't care and did it again. When the school called, my H and I went to the school, pulled her out of class and I accompanied her to the bathroom with her sweatsuit... I had her bag up her good clothes and wear the sweatsuit and told her that maybe if she walked in these kids' shoes awhile she'll know what it's like. I told her that she is fooling herself if she thinks that what is on the outside is MOST important because no matter how good the clothes or how much make up you have... if you have an ugly inside... it ALWAYS shows. I'm not sure if she has done this anymore but we haven't been called to the school again. It broke our heart to do this to her but after talking and trying to break it down for her didn't work we knew we had to go big to nip it right away... I hate bullying!!!


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## kate542

You sound like wonderful parents what more can you do other than sit back and wait to see what happens.
Try and have a life yourself.


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## Corpuswife

lovingsummer said:


> Yea, I was so thankful it was summer  My H and I are pretty strict parents by today's standards in our community which is sad. We have also made our 13 year old apologize to her school bus driver for being rude and disrespectful... in front of all the kids because she was rude and disrespectful in front of the kids why not apologize in front of them... So much for being "cool" she thought... We have also stripped bedrooms of EVERYTHING except their bed, blankets and pillow. Last year when our 13 year old was in 6th grade, she thought it would be cool to make fun and be mean to other kids that had less than she did. After explaining that some people just don't have money for new clothes, brand name clothes, etc. and giving her examples of why they may not and telling her that if she did it again, we were taking all her "name brand" clothes away... we were buying her sweatsuits and she would wear those for a week. She decided she didn't care and did it again. When the school called, my H and I went to the school, pulled her out of class and I accompanied her to the bathroom with her sweatsuit... I had her bag up her good clothes and wear the sweatsuit and told her that maybe if she walked in these kids' shoes awhile she'll know what it's like. I told her that she is fooling herself if she thinks that what is on the outside is MOST important because no matter how good the clothes or how much make up you have... if you have an ugly inside... it ALWAYS shows. I'm not sure if she has done this anymore but we haven't been called to the school again. It broke our heart to do this to her but after talking and trying to break it down for her didn't work we knew we had to go big to nip it right away... I hate bullying!!!


She sounds very stubborn and dedicated to her decisions! Makes if tough on the ole parents (to say the least). I wonder what is the source of her bullying? Perhaps if she had someone to talk to...an outsider source (minister; counselor; role model)


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## Corpuswife

I took my daughter to a doctor appt. The older boyfriend has been in jail for the past month. She is staying at his mom's house and doesn't like it there. However, she is starting to make plans to move in with a roommate that happens to be Mormon and drug free. She feels that this will be beneficial. Her mood has lifted. 

I am cautious as it takes ACTION! We will see.


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## OhGeesh

It'll workout  but it may leave scars!! I don't feel much at all for my oldest daughter. If I don't talk to her for weeks I don't feel anything.......out of duty I'll txt her and say Hey...

Those wounds can be hard to heal!! It's going on 2 years and while better than 18 months ago......I feel perpetually numb to her.


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## lovingsummer

Corpuswife said:


> She sounds very stubborn and dedicated to her decisions! Makes if tough on the ole parents (to say the least). I wonder what is the source of her bullying? Perhaps if she had someone to talk to...an outsider source (minister; counselor; role model)


Yes, she is stubborn but I see her starting to be more mature. I think it mainly came from starting middle school and trying to mix with new people. We are from a small town area and there are 3 elementary schools that merge into one middle school. She starting hanging around kids that acted like that and apparently got away with it. 

She has since left that group of friends after she became a victim of their viciousness. She has a much nicer little group of friends that don't tolerate that kind of behavior from her at all. I can't tell her enough how proud I am of her for making the changes she needed to. 

Crossing my fingers that her 8th grade year will be a good one this year.


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## Corpuswife

OhGeesh said:


> It'll workout  but it may leave scars!! I don't feel much at all for my oldest daughter. If I don't talk to her for weeks I don't feel anything.......out of duty I'll txt her and say Hey...
> 
> Those wounds can be hard to heal!! It's going on 2 years and while better than 18 months ago......I feel perpetually numb to her.


I think you are right about the emotional numbing! My friend and I were discussing how you can't help but become emotional numb to protect yourself. So much goes on that doesn't make any sense to me. Literally, some of her actions and my son's (also) is like touching a hot stove...over and over again and then getting upset that it BURNS!


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## Corpuswife

Although, it's been maybe a month since I posted on this thread....much has changed. It went from bad to worse. 

I gave her another chance...her last one and she blew it after 5 days...with that she asked back in. I said "no" and she left. 

Ended up coming home with her ex boyfriend-not the other one. As I was driving up my driveway, her ex bf contacted me concerned. I met him in the garage he was worried about her harming herself. She had attempted, previously a few months ago.

When I went inside, she was coming out of the bathroom. I asked if she had taken pills. She eventually said she did. I called 9-1-1.

It has been a week of hell. She was emotionally raw. The psychiatric unit did next to nothing but hold her overnight. 

She had contacted a rehab that she attended last summer. According to the director, she had contacted him several times in the last month. She was on the fence about going again. He told her, after the suicide attempt, that she needed to come by Thursday. 

She did and boy was she wishy washy/tempermental/emotional. She ended up following through but threatened to not go/hit walls/and threaten suicide again (several times). 

There was nothing we could do to save her. She was either going to get help or die. The writing was on the wall. I summoned my friends to pray and they did. I did. Her dad did and the rest of the family did.

She is now in rehab (her second night tonight). She's threatened to leave of minor things already. She is still there and going through the motions like she did with us this last week.

God knows this has been extremely trying as a parent.

Her dad and I told her, today, that we loved her but if she chooses to leave the rehab (10 hours away) then we would not pick her up or give her money and she would not live with us. 

Frankly, I could not control her without a 24 hour bodyguard. I also cannot see her destroy herself.

I appreciate anyone that can lend support.


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## lovingsummer

So sorry to hear the update wasn't a good one  Continue to pray and hope for the best... Take Care


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## Bellavista

It is very hard to let them go. I fully understand the numbing yourself in order to detach, although we are parents, we are still humans & it is natural to protect ourselves from emotional battering.
Our eldest son, nearly 24, went feral at 17. He met a wayward girl, got her pregnant, got into drugs & drink etc. He has broken up with the girl, hangs out with druggie mates & drinks every day. he does not live with us. We have made the choice not to bail him out any longer. He lives in a house with our second son & daughter in law. I am always expecting a call to say he has overdosed or been killed in a drinking incident. I have to numb myself against his behaviour.
Our fourth child, 1st daughter, was a bit wild when she was 13-16. As others have said, that really damaged our relationship with her. Maybe one day I will be able to feel like I trust her again.

I am sorry for your situation Corpuswife, I cannot give you answers, but please be aware, you are alone in your struggle. Your daughter makes her own choices, as hard as it is to believe, you are not responsible for how she lives her life.
When you give birth to a baby, it is like a switch is tripped in your head that brings in loads of guilt. We also start to compare ourselves to other families. This does not help, trust me, I know.

As hard as it is, you can't do anything to enable her behaviour. My mother kept bailing my brother out, he was on drugs until his mid 30's & he will admit if she had been tougher, he may have been forced to make different choices.


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## turnera

I'm so sorry. I can't even imagine how hard this is for you. My DD22 is all that matters to me.

That said, you absolutely did the right thing. At her age, or for someone with a mental issue, tough love IS the only thing that works - everything else is enabling. It may take her years to outgrow this, to have enough hard knocks to finally get it. But she likely will. Eventually. It just won't be the fairy tale you envisioned.

My best friend's little sister got into drugs, got married, had kids, kept taking drugs, went to prison, lost her kids through divorce, got out, went back in, got out, went back in and had a baby while in, my friend adopted and raised that baby...I lost track of her after tht, but I saw her picture on FB the other day so I assume she finally got out and kicked the drugs. But it took her 20 years of hard knocks to get there. Because her mom and dad just HAD to take care of their little baby, you know? Every time she got out or got in trouble, there were there to pick her up and put a few hundred dollars in her pocket.

You're doing the right thing, even if she doesn't stay in rehab. Just continue to let her know you love her and she's always welcome back as soon as the bad is over with.


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## Corpuswife

Thanks to all of you.....what a wonderful message board TAM. It's helped me with my divorce and now my child! Really...thank you!

Her dad and I have held the line with as much love as we could. I've called the police; called the ambulance; never bailed her out of jail; and kicked her out several times. 

I pray this works but like someone said...there will be scars.


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## MamaG

I am in a situation right now with my 18 yr. old daughter. She was dating a "bad" kid her senior yr. and when we realized how bad, we told her she couldn't see him. This caused alot of issues in our household. She is off at college now and come to find out has been seeing him for a while. She has now demanded that we accept him or she will quit the sport that got her to college, leave school and write us off. This boy has a record and sells drugs. He has NO respect for women and is open and honest about it because he was abandoned by his mother. What do we do? We are a loving involved family that others envied. Now we are on the verge of losing our little girl because we can't support her choice.


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## turnera

Call the police and report him.


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## d4life

Op, I feel so sorry for you that you are going through this. I really only thought that this kind of stuff happened in the movies but I know first hand that it is so real. We are dealing with an issue with my daughter too and nothing has ever been so frustrating. In fact your post sounds a lot like our story, but this has been going on since she was 13. She turned 20 today. 



QUOTE=MamaG;1129835]I am in a situation right now with my 18 yr. old daughter. She was dating a "bad" kid her senior yr. and when we realized how bad, we told her she couldn't see him. This caused alot of issues in our household. She is off at college now and come to find out has been seeing him for a while. She has now demanded that we accept him or she will quit the sport that got her to college, leave school and write us off. This boy has a record and sells drugs. He has NO respect for women and is open and honest about it because he was abandoned by his mother. What do we do? We are a loving involved family that others envied. Now we are on the verge of losing our little girl because we can't support her choice.[/QUOTE]

I am right there with you because we are going through it too. I wish we could sit and have some coffee and talk about it because until you go through the hurt, disappointment and absolute heartbreak from this you can't fully understand. 

I will keep you both in my thoughts and prayers.


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## MamaG

Since I posted my daughter gave up her scholarship and dropped out of school. She moved in with him and has little to no contact with us. We had an occasion that my husband drove to where she lived because she posted on her facebook what looked for a cry for help. Our families all saw it and was worried. When he arrived he was met by police. We are not welcome there and if it happens again someone will be arrested. All he did was knock on the door. It turns out she just needed a ride to a party. The boy openly attacks myself and my Mother on facebook. He won't let anyone have contact with her without being in the middle of it. I haven't laid eyes on her in over 2 months. We are so afraid when she comes to her senses we will not be able to undo the damage he is doing to her. My heart aches everyday. I wish there was a support group for Moms like me. My boys and husband are supportive but their answer is "there is nothing you can do about it so don't talk about it." She went from Homecoming Princess and star college athlete to disrespectful mean girl, living with a drug dealer and working in a buffet restraunt in a matter of months.


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## turnera

She just has to learn her own hard knocks. That's how she'll know what works in life and what doesn't. You really do just have to back off and let her figure it out. Continue to show her the path home (if she agrees to boundaries and consequences) and stay out of it.


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## d4life

MamaG said:


> Since I posted my daughter gave up her scholarship and dropped out of school. She moved in with him and has little to no contact with us. We had an occasion that my husband drove to where she lived because she posted on her facebook what looked for a cry for help. Our families all saw it and was worried. When he arrived he was met by police. We are not welcome there and if it happens again someone will be arrested. All he did was knock on the door. It turns out she just needed a ride to a party. The boy openly attacks myself and my Mother on facebook. He won't let anyone have contact with her without being in the middle of it. I haven't laid eyes on her in over 2 months. We are so afraid when she comes to her senses we will not be able to undo the damage he is doing to her. My heart aches everyday. I wish there was a support group for Moms like me. My boys and husband are supportive but their answer is "there is nothing you can do about it so don't talk about it." She went from Homecoming Princess and star college athlete to disrespectful mean girl, living with a drug dealer and working in a buffet restraunt in a matter of months.


I am so sorry. I also wish that we had a support group because this must be more common than I thought. My daughter just lost her scholarship and is now living with the guy too. While I can talk to her, it has not done any good and my guess is it wouldn't help you either. I have had to take a big step back, try to let go, and turn it over to God and just pray that she will wake up and see what is going on. It is the hardest thing that I have ever done.

If you want someone to talk to PM me. It sounds like we have a lot in common.


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## Corpuswife

As parents, we are not perfect and don't have all of the answers. I know that my ex and I have given our best! My kids know that we love them dearly. We have proved it in our actions. 

Now, despite the fact that my daughter is in jail for shoplifting and has attempted suicide while there.....I will leave her and not bail her out. Such a difficult decision but she's left me no choice.

18 years old-2 rehabs-16 day inpatient hospitalization last week; an auto accident w/head injury; arrests (PI); you name it! 

Shes not learning and she's not getting it! Jail-is uncomfortable and painful. I pray this will be her lightbulb moment. She needs to figure out what kind of life she wants.

I am exhausted after 2 years of this.....my former varsity tennis team player; volunteer and salutatorian of her class has disappeared. It blows me away!


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## turnera

You're doing the right thing. It has to become so uncomfortable that SHE chooses another path.


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## Bellavista

Our 18yo daughter seems to be on track nowdays, but with 5 kids it never ends.
Our eldest son, 24, has left his job & is moving back in with us so that he can study at university. Admittedly, he never wanted this job, he was forced out of the job he liked into one he didn't like by the actions of some of H's family. He has been living 5 hours away from us.
He is more than likely on some kind of drugs (presciption or illegal), he drinks, he smokes. We are going to have to be tough with him to have him stay here. Sadly, I am not looking forward to seeing my own son again and that, more than anything, makes me feel terrible.


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## turnera

Bella, make plans AHEAD OF TIME for what his consequences will be. Write them out. Have him sign it BEFORE he moves back in. Tape it on the refrigerator so he sees it every day. Then get ready to ENFORCE the consequences. You probably will only have to do it once or twice, and he'll get it.


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## Corpuswife

I agree with Turnera! Bella you have to state the rules and stick by them or he will make your life hell! It's difficult and they don't like it but in the long run it's best for them and us!

My daughter is still in jail. I am going to call her probation officer to make sure that she not released. I spoke to a police officer, last night, at the jail. She wanted me to bail my daughter off as "she doesn't belong there." Right! I told her "I disagree. She been arrested and stayed for 1 day-several times; she been to rehab twice; inpatient psychiatric stay (her idea) for 16 days last week. Now after 4 days shoplifting. She needs to feel the pain of her choices!"


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## EleGirl

Corpuswife said:


> As parents, we are not perfect and don't have all of the answers. I know that my ex and I have given our best! My kids know that we love them dearly. We have proved it in our actions.
> 
> Now, despite the fact that my daughter is in jail for shoplifting and has attempted suicide while there.....I will leave her and not bail her out. Such a difficult decision but she's left me no choice.
> 
> 18 years old-2 rehabs-16 day inpatient hospitalization last week; an auto accident w/head injury; arrests (PI); you name it!
> 
> Shes not learning and she's not getting it! Jail-is uncomfortable and painful. I pray this will be her lightbulb moment. She needs to figure out what kind of life she wants.
> 
> I am exhausted after 2 years of this.....my former varsity tennis team player; volunteer and salutatorian of her class has disappeared. It blows me away!


My step daughter (23) is in jail right now on drug charges. She got into a rough crowd and with an older guy. This is not hre first time. This time she's been there for about 3 months. They might let her out in 45 days if she can get into a long term residential rehab.

When she called me to bail her out I asked her why would I do that? She obviously exactly where she wants to be. She knew that if she did not stop the drugs this is where she would end up.

Yes it is much more common than a lot of people realize.


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## Corpuswife

It's good to be able to talk about it. You don't feel so alone.

Sometimes, Elegirl....jail is a good place.....


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## Anonymous07

They (usually) do eventually grow out of it. For my cousin, it took several years before she matured and started to act like an adult. She got knocked up in high school and pregnant again within 2 years of her first by a different guy(both given up for adoption). She tried all different kinds of drugs and spent her time with the wrong crowd. She's 24 now and only recently has she started to act responsible, with learning how to budget money, not throw herself at guys, stay away from drugs and heavy drinking, etc. Sadly it takes some a lot longer than others to figure out how life works and how to be an adult. 

Her parents reacted by taking away all of her privileges when she acted out, no longer paying her school tuition, car loan, and any other expenses, along with making her pay rent. She decided to leave and crashed at friend's places here and there, not staying long at any one place. She had to basically hit "rock bottom"(no money, laid off from work, etc.) before coming back to her parents asking to move back in. They did allow her back in, but she had to make sure she would follow the rules or she would be kicked out. That did it for her and she began to straighten up, but it still took a couple years before she got to where she is today.


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## Corpuswife

Anonymous07 said:


> They (usually) do eventually grow out of it. For my cousin, it took several years before she matured and started to act like an adult. She got knocked up in high school and pregnant again within 2 years of her first by a different guy(both given up for adoption). She tried all different kinds of drugs and spent her time with the wrong crowd. She's 24 now and only recently has she started to act responsible, with learning how to budget money, not throw herself at guys, stay away from drugs and heavy drinking, etc. Sadly it takes some a lot longer than others to figure out how life works and how to be an adult.
> 
> Her parents reacted by taking away all of her privileges when she acted out, no longer paying her school tuition, car loan, and any other expenses, along with making her pay rent. She decided to leave and crashed at friend's places here and there, not staying long at any one place. She had to basically hit "rock bottom"(no money, laid off from work, etc.) before coming back to her parents asking to move back in. They did allow her back in, but she had to make sure she would follow the rules or she would be kicked out. That did it for her and she began to straighten up, but it still took a couple years before she got to where she is today.



It's been a few years now...and I can't wait for things to get better! I am just hoping, at this point ,that she doesn't have to many "scars." 

I did end up calling probation and telling her my daughters background and how I thought she should remain in jail. She told me that it was up to the judge. We will see. 

Bless her heart.....she is making her life so difficult!!


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## turnera

There are two different kinds - the pushers and the receivers. Some literally just have to learn by pushing against the ropes to see what happens, and then learning (hopefully) to live within those boundaries/consequences. Mine was the opposite and I am SO thankful, every day. Once her dad asked her, after yet another of her friends ruined our plans by bailing on us because she got grounded - yet again - why she never got in trouble or needed to be grounded. She just shrugged and said 'why would I do something that I know will get me punished?'

But that's why, when you have one of the pushers, it's SO vital NOT to rescue them. They have to learn those consequences - some time - themselves. So the sooner they experience them, the earlier they'll be able to check that off their mental don't do this checklist, and move on to more productive ways.


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## Bellavista

When my brother went feral 25 years ago, (drink, major drug use/dealing), my mother went through a stage of praying that if he was not going to turn his life around, then God should just let him die. It was too painful for her to deal with.
It took 20 or so years for him to come off the drugs. Personally, I don't think I can last that long with my son, I am now at the point of praying like my mother did.
As parents we want to rescue our kids, we want to make all of the bad go away, it is the hardest thing of all to step back & let them fall.
Our son is here for Christmas at the moment. I look at him & I feel nothing, I don't like him anymore, I feel like I don't even love him.
How bad is that for a mother? To feel like her first born would be better off dead than living this farce of a life. This child of ours has become the relative that no-one wants around.


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## Corpuswife

Bellavista said:


> When my brother went feral 25 years ago, (drink, major drug use/dealing), my mother went through a stage of praying that if he was not going to turn his life around, then God should just let him die. It was too painful for her to deal with.
> It took 20 or so years for him to come off the drugs. Personally, I don't think I can last that long with my son, I am now at the point of praying like my mother did.
> As parents we want to rescue our kids, we want to make all of the bad go away, it is the hardest thing of all to step back & let them fall.
> Our son is here for Christmas at the moment. I look at him & I feel nothing, I don't like him anymore, I feel like I don't even love him.
> How bad is that for a mother? To feel like her first born would be better off dead than living this farce of a life. This child of ours has become the relative that no-one wants around.



I have began preparing for my daughters death....that's the way it's heading. Can I prepare? I don't know but she is heading down that path. 

I agree.....20 years! I pray daily for my daughters healing but have begun disconnecting. I know it sounds heartless regarding now liking your child but really after years of grief....your are human.

take care of yourself....pray for peace.


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## Corpuswife

I was able to take a phone call from my daughter today (from jail). She was crying and apologizing and telling me how she doesn't belong there because she had a good childhood. She realizes that it's her choice to be there and she will need to suck-it-up and take the consequences. 

I told her how much I loved her and we weren't bailing her out. She was in danger of burning her relationships. It was a 15 minute conversation.

She will see the judge on Jan 4th for this charge and will get time served. However, she has another court date at the end of Jan and this will effect the outcome. More than likely, she will be sent by the courts to a drug rehab/legal system. I expect it. 

She has been praying she says. We will see.


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## turnera

This all sounds VERY promising. Lots of introspection. Lots of time for her to sit around and question where her life is going.


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## Corpuswife

turnera said:


> This all sounds VERY promising. Lots of introspection. Lots of time for her to sit around and question where her life is going.


Yes it does. She is making sense and clearing her mind (minus the drugs and/or psych meds). She mentions that she feels that this is the best thing for her. She knows she was out of control.

I am letting her figure things out. Many people "find Jesus in jail" and I am leery of her not making the changes. She will need to prove herself.


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## MamaG

Bella,

My heart goes out to you. I believe that this is "learned conditioning" for you to shut down where your son is concerned. Mothers are some of the strongest people on earth but we too have a breaking point. If we keep putting our hand in the fire and getting burned, we will learn soon enough to keep our hands in our pockets.

I was shocked to find there were so many Mothers like us out there. I am also shocked to find (like the Mothers on here) so much support. Its nice to be able to say some of these things out loud and not be judged.

My friend down the street has not been thru this so its easy for her to tell me what should be done. Walk a mile in my shoes... I bet your game plan would be different. I think you are doing what needs to be done for you. That is never a bad thing.


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## Bellavista

We are on holidays at the moment and our eldest son is part of the group here. I will say that he is trying hard to be helpful. 
Everyone and then he spaces out but that could be due to his aspergers and the number of people here.
The real test will be when he moves back in with us next month.


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## Corpuswife

My mother and I are going to visit my daughter in jail. She sounds good on the phone. I pray that she is able to get her life straight. We will see. 

Well, I made it through the Christmas celebration. 

Bella: Have you given thought to your boundaries prior to him moving in?


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## Corpuswife

My mother and I weren't able to visit my daughter today. It seems there is some sort of mix up and they had her privileges taken away (on the computer it showed). However, she called me later and she wasn't sure what was going on as nothing has occurred while she's been in jail and she is being allowed to make phone calls. She was going to ask after the call.

She is still tearful with remorse but for the first time, she spoke of asking God to help her, forgive her, and come back into her life. She stated that this jail stay has been so helpful for her. She feels it's God way of her gaining perspective. She told me..."it's weird, I am in jail and I haven't felt so happy in over a year. It doesn't make any sense that I am in jail and happy but something has happened to me." She no longer feels suicidal and no longer is depressed. 

I understand both personally and professionally that "people find Jesus in jail." 

We had a great conversation and she realizes that amends that she needs to remedy, if possible. She realizes that she will still have consequences but is ok with that. 

I am proud of her. No matter what. Still hesitant but hopeful. Jesus gives us the tools we just have to use them.


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## d4life

They say sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can finally see what is best. Maybe this has helped her, and she sees that what she was doing is just not working. Sometimes when we are at our lowest, we finally turn to the only one who can help us, and that is God. This has been true for me always. God is good, all the time.


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## turnera

What happened is that the jail did what YOU were unable to do - show her firmness and being unwilling to bend to her machinations.

Realize that this euphoria will likely fade quickly once she is out, and she'll be right back where she was - unless you stand 100% FIRM on not allowing her to do ANY of the former stuff.


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## turnera

I have to say, though, having been around lots of young women like your daughter, that the most LIKELY thing that is happening is that she has figured out this is what you want to hear. 

So she is giving it to you.

So you will get her out.

People don't change overnight, they don't stop disrespecting their mother overnight, and they don't stop manipulating overnight.


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## d4life

turnera said:


> I have to say, though, having been around lots of young women like your daughter, that the most LIKELY thing that is happening is that she has figured out this is what you want to hear.
> 
> So she is giving it to you.
> 
> So you will get her out.
> 
> People don't change overnight, they don't stop disrespecting their mother overnight, and they don't stop manipulating overnight.


This is exactly, *exactly*, what my daughter does to us. Then she breaks our hearts again. OP, I hope she is being truthful with you but dont be surprised if she's not. Just be aware.

I know as a mom, all we want is for them to have that moment when they "wake up" and see what we have been saying. I'm still waiting for that moment too.


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## Corpuswife

Well...I have been doing the tough love thing for quite awhile. She doesn't live with me and hasn't for about 6 months plus. I have given her no money. She knew and knows that we won't bail her out.

Yes. I understand her manipulation and "finding Jesus in jail." I am just being supportive and telling her that she has a long path to follow and many actions to put in place. My heart is guarded.

I see things as hopeful and I have faith that she will eventually turn around.....perhaps with some scars to show.


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## Corpuswife

She has been home and noticeably different. Not fake or manipulative as I can spot that a mile away. I listen and remain supportive of good things. 

She called me, at work, to let me know that were letting her go. She said, I will ride the bus home because I don't want you to have to come out here. It was 38 degrees, raining, and she was in shorts and a t-shirt (what she went in with). I said "ok. I love you. See you then!"

She knows that she has made excuses for her behaviors (our divorce, depression, car accident in which head injury was involved). However, she said "this has been an excuse for me to do what I want. I never looked to God in all of this or ask for help. I didn't care and I was selfish." 

We had a great talk. She had a real eye opener of her "future" if she continues. She doesn't want it anymore. I haven't spoke to my "real" daughter in over 2 years. The sane one, the smart one, the driven one, the one that is the salutatorian in high school, varsity tennis player, volunteer. I have my daughter back for today. 

I will take it. 

I will not take her breaking rules or give her money or allow her to do nothing while in my home. I am an accomplished boundary setter with over 2 years of practice. I know how to handle it.

She deactivated her facebook. She wants to hang out with me in the living area and do things with me. She asked me to buy her an adult bible today (her Christmas present). She is 18 years old. She got an employment application at a nearby restaurant. 

I am proud of her for today. That's all I have.

She tells me that she is happy and not depressed. It's been 2 years.


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## EleGirl

turnera said:


> I have to say, though, having been around lots of young women like your daughter, that the most LIKELY thing that is happening is that she has figured out this is what you want to hear.
> 
> So she is giving it to you.
> 
> So you will get her out.
> 
> People don't change overnight, they don't stop disrespecting their mother overnight, and they don't stop manipulating overnight.


My step-daughter and step-son have done exactly this when they are in trouble. They see the light while in there and talk a good talk. Then come out and nothing changes.

Words mean nothing to me now.


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## EleGirl

Corpuswife said:


> She has been home and noticeably different. Not fake or manipulative as I can spot that a mile away. I listen and remain supportive of good things.
> 
> She called me, at work, to let me know that were letting her go. She said, I will ride the bus home because I don't want you to have to come out here. It was 38 degrees, raining, and she was in shorts and a t-shirt (what she went in with). I said "ok. I love you. See you then!"
> 
> She knows that she has made excuses for her behaviors (our divorce, depression, car accident in which head injury was involved). However, she said "this has been an excuse for me to do what I want. I never looked to God in all of this or ask for help. I didn't care and I was selfish."
> 
> We had a great talk. She had a real eye opener of her "future" if she continues. She doesn't want it anymore. I haven't spoke to my "real" daughter in over 2 years. The sane one, the smart one, the driven one, the one that is the salutatorian in high school, varsity tennis player, volunteer. I have my daughter back for today.
> 
> I will take it.
> 
> I will not take her breaking rules or give her money or allow her to do nothing while in my home. I am an accomplished boundary setter with over 2 years of practice. I know how to handle it.
> 
> She deactivated her facebook. She wants to hang out with me in the living area and do things with me. She asked me to buy her an adult bible today (her Christmas present). She is 18 years old. She got an employment application at a nearby restaurant.
> 
> I am proud of her for today. That's all I have.
> 
> She tells me that she is happy and not depressed. It's been 2 years.


I hope your daughter has turned a new leaf; for her sake and yours. It would be good to see her young life take a better turn.


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## MamaG

Oh Corpuswife... just to have the real her back... I hope things continue to get better.


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## turnera

Good luck!

Now would be a perfect time to write up a Conduct Contract and get her to sign it. Include the consequences, in writing, if she breaks the rules of conduct in your home.


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## Corpuswife

Her attitude has changed to her old self. She isn't phony or over doing it...just the old self. She is appreciated, apologetic and doing things that are respectful. 

I take it for what it is....I feel peaceful. If it goes away tomorrow, then I know what to do.


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## d4life

I am glad to hear it. I hope she stays on the right track. It's so heartbreaking when they don't, believe me.


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## arbitrator

Think that my adherence to "tough love" with my son's~ the way that I was brought up, as opposed to my STBXW's reluctance in enforcing tough love with her own kids partially led to the demise of our relationship.

My two know that they must walk the straight and narrow. I don't ask much of them, but drugs, body piercings, and tattoo's are strictly taboo. So is trying to drive a car after drinking.

My STBXW thought recreational drugs and liquor were fine for her kids and even encouraged them to do their thing in the confines of
their bedrooms in our home, even with their friends. Her logic was that she'd rather have them do it at home than be off at someone else's house doing it.

She was so supportive of their habits that I remember one time that she found a small pot plant that had sprouted from a seed on her lawn and she physically picked it and gave it to her oldest son.

I told her early on in our marriage that I wanted a zero-tolerance policy implemented regarding these things for as long as my kids were visiting or living in the house, but all to no avail.

Bottomline: My two are stellar college students, with morals; her's all have arrest records for possession, high school dropouts, whose only future plans involve mom continuing to support their habits, and waiting around for their grandparents as well as their mom to kick the bucket, so they can collect sizeable inheritances.

Having said that, I'll take "tough-love" anyday!


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## turnera

I hope you send her a letter some day and say 'SO...how did your child-raising policy turn out? MY policy turned out two college graduates earning more than both of us.  '


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## arbitrator

turnera said:


> I hope you send her a letter some day and say 'SO...how did your child-raising policy turn out? MY policy turned out two college graduates earning more than both of us.  '


Thanks, Turnera! But it seems that STBXW's mantra is richly, "Money conquers all!"

And she uses that against anyone who would either try to stand in her way, she hates or dislikes, disagrees with her, is not politically or socially in-tune with her, or is just an easy target for her to come after. After all, wealth does have a marked tendancy to do some strange things to warped people!

Regretfully speaking, I'm a living witness to that!


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## Bellavista

I have never seen the 'let your kids drink & do drugs at home because they are safe there' end succssefully.

All of the now adults that were allowed to do that as teens have ended up as self-serving individuals who think the world owes them a living. 
We have friends with a 15yo daughter, they let her drink, they let her take alcohol to friends' places for parties, they know she hangs out with bad kids & smokes pot, but they are too scared to stop her. I can say, the girl is still disrespectful to her parents, she still fights with them, their caving in has not made her like them any more than if they were tough.

My kids know my stance on underage drinking, use of illegal substances and other issues. While it may not have stopped them, in the case of two of them, being circumspect about their behaviour did not make it easy for them to drink underage while they were out.


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## arbitrator

The real blessing from it all, at least for me, is that my two college age boys have chosen to identify with kids much like themselves: kids that are intelligent, have a sense of ambition, take total responsibility for their own actions, are generally respectful of their elders, have a sense of deity and sympathy for those less fortunate than themselves, have a general respect of the law and for the authorities, and generally keep a "look out" for each others well-being.

Conversely, they generally ostracize druggies, dumbasses, or people who are "plastic," especially those overbearing folks who would readily "pee on their shoes and just tell them that it was a thunderstorm."

Now that's not saying that they do not let their hair down and have a good time, but in doing so, they totally know what limitations that they are bound by!

And I absolutely couldn't be any more prouder for them to call me "Dad!"


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