# Tips on talking



## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Hi there.

My husband and I have been married less than a year and I feel that we are struggling. No children yet but we are trying.

Recently my depression has become quite bad (have suffered for over 10 years on and off) and I just don't feel that I can talk to him about it. I've turned negative thoughts both on him and myself and I've gotten to the point where I am angry at him all the time. I do feel that this stems from feeling that I can't talk to him.

He is a naturally quiet man and I know he is under stress at work at the moment as well, but I feel that he isn't interested in what happens to me day to day and doesn't actually want to talk to me. Hence the feeling that I now can't tall to him.

He does try every now and then, he has started putting lines on his hand to remind himself to ask me how my day went. But then I feel that he shouldn't have to be reminded but want to know.

I'm after some advice on how to begin the conversation I know we need to have. I'm feeling worse each day and want to be the team that we used to be.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Like all of these things you are going to have to have courage. Courage to be open with him, courage to let him fail at times and not take that as a sign he doesn't love you. Courage to say, "you are hurting me when you say this or do this." (NOT how dare you hurt me!) Or "I miss you and need your support!" Most of all courage to be vulnerable. 

Yes it's a risk, but this is where you find out what kind of man you married. A good man will run through fire for his wife, that mean if she says "I'm hurting" not "Why are you not doing this" he will try to help here. Unfortunately the tendency of people is to say, you shouldn't be hurting. The response to that is, "maybe I shouldn't be but I am, that doesn't help me. Please help me." Good husbands want to help their wives. 

Again though it takes courage. But having courage in life helps you have a very good life. Even when it doesn't work out all the time.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Mrs Doubt said:


> Hi there.
> 
> My husband and I have been married less than a year and I feel that we are struggling. No children yet but we are trying.
> 
> ...


I would sit him down in a way where you're touching/cuddling (I think most heart to heart talks should be done this way), and tell him that intimate conversation is something you need in order to feel connected with him. That you need to feel like you're connected to what he thinks, feels, and goes through, on a daily basis. And that you need to feel that he's connected to you in the same way.

Ideally, the position you're in should allow you to look at each other, while touching. Facing towards each other on the couch, and entwining your legs is a good one. If you want to be bit more up close and personal, he can lean back against the armrest on the couch, you can straddle him, and he can slide his feet up and plant them on the couch so his thighs are standing there behind you. Put a pillow against his thighs, lean back, and you're set! :grin2:


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Mrs Doubt said:


> Recently my depression has become quite bad (have suffered for over 10 years on and off) and I just don't feel that I can talk to him about it. I've turned negative thoughts both on him and myself and I've gotten to the point where I am angry at him all the time.


*He knows* you are angry at him all the time, which makes it more difficult for him to approach you. This is a vicious circle. Your anger keeps him at a distance, and his distance makes you angry. 



> I feel that he isn't interested in what happens to me day to day


This probably isn't true. He just isn't able to deal with your anger, and the sadness behind it. 



> He does try every now and then, he has started putting lines on his hand to remind himself to ask me how my day went.


Which shows that he does want to fix it. 



> But then I feel that he shouldn't have to be reminded but want to know.


Changing any habit needs reminders (like the marks on the hand). His habit is avoiding trouble. 



> I'm after some advice on how to begin the conversation I know we need to have.


Emotionally-focused couple counselling.


----------



## LimaTango (May 7, 2019)

Hi there.

I'm sorry you've found yourself here but there are a lot of experienced people here who can help.

I know I benefitted a lot from reading a few books. Men are from Mars/ Women are from Venus. And 5 love languages. So that's something positive you could do to help with communication. 

Additionally, i would try to avoid this kind of thinking: "He does try every now and then, he has started putting lines on his hand to remind himself to ask me how my day went. But then I feel that he shouldn't have to be reminded but want to know."

The optimist might look at his efforts and see that he is legitimately making an effort. I guarantee he will be deflated as hell if you point out that he shouldn't need things to help him remember things. My wife would do this to me sometimes. And then when I didn't need a reminder and I was doing things great, she'd be upset that it took so long for me to figure it out. Argh!

Anyhow, that's my quick advice. But I really did like those two books. They're not perfect. But helped me open my eyes to another perspective.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

#1 ... stop trying to have a child until you both have this sorted out.


----------



## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Thank you for your replies. I do need courage and it's not going to be easy. It's taken time for this wall to build up between us and I realise it will take time to take it down as well.

We started last night as he picked up that I was 'grumpy'. I told him that I wasn't grumpy but I was sad, I didn't want to talk to him about it at the time as he had been drinking and every serious conversation we have when he has been drinking just ends in a 'oh I don't remember any of that' the morning after.

He has gone to work this morning but I'm hoping we can sit and have an honest conversation about things when he gets back. I've tried to comprehend why I'm feeling sad and would appreciate any rewording tips. I don't want to hurt his feelings but I do want him to acknowledge that I'm hurting and that we both need to change:

Why am I sad?

I'm sad because we don't communicate. We spoke about this months ago and nothing really changed.

I'm sad because I feel I can't talk to him anymore. Several things have happened: baby situation, work, family. And I don't feel I can talk to him about any of them, we just keep going. 

I know that he has a lot of himself. But he doesn't talk to me about any of it either. Evenings are spent watching TV in silence while he sits talking to work people on his phone. Something that was making me very paranoid. I even thought he was having an affair.

I'm sad because I'm lonely. I feel cut off from all the wonderful friends I used to have and I'm starting to blame him for that. Correctly or not. 

I'm sad because I feel we don't do anything together anymore. Even going out to a concert for the first time in months, we didn't actually talk or do anything to bring us closer. Just random snippets of conversation about his work. 

I'm sad because I don't want to tell him stuff anymore. Because all I get back is a private sector solutions (I'm a teacher)or a sarcastic response. I can't even talk to others about it when he is around as I'm met with sarcasm or huffy noises from him, just making me self conscious and that what I'm talking about no-one wants to hear.

I'm sad because of the decision to try for a baby was his announcement, yet I seem to be the only one doing anything about it. Giving things up, taking pills, initiating any sex. It's hard to feel like a team when you are the one doing everything.

I'm sad because when I do show my feelings I'm made to feel guilty for them and I just don't know what goes on in his head anymore.


----------



## LimaTango (May 7, 2019)

Mrs Doubt: I can feel your sadness coming through loud and clear from your post above. It's palpable.

Having heard more about your situation, I have a recommendation though:

1. Do NOT get pregnant. You and your H are having communication issues now. Adding a baby to the mix will make it worse. 

Babies take so much effort. You and your baby are going to need a partner that gives you energy. It's pretty clear that being with him is just making you more sad, less connected, more isolated.

A few questions for you though:

1. Regarding the drinking: How much does your H drink? Every night? Just occasionally? 
2. Why are you not close to friends now? (You moved away from them?)
3. You said above "I even thought he was having an affair" - Why did you think that? And Do you still think that? 
4. Have you considered marriage counseling to help bring these issues to his attention? 
5. Have you considered individual counseling to help with your depression?

It's a pretty big red flag that all these issues are happening within your first year of marriage though. Again, I am sorry you find yourself here. This is a pretty big community of people who can help though and just know you are not alone.


----------



## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

LimaTango said:


> Mrs Doubt: I can feel your sadness coming through loud and clear from your post above. It's palpable.
> 
> Having heard more about your situation, I have a recommendation though:
> 
> ...


We have had a talk this morning. He acknowledged my saddness but his reaction is to just apologise, nothing really comes of it.

I have reconsidered counselling, I had it before. I'm in the UK and good counsellors are not readily available.

He drinks more often than he doesn't, he does know that this is something he needs to cut down on.

I think we have taken a step in the right direction, I just want to ensure that it stays in the right direction and is not just forgotten about again.

I did think he was having an affair as he had started being on his phone a lot more and seemed very withdrawn. I realise now that he was dealing with stress in his own way. When I'm thinking logically I trust him I completely. My problem comes when my emotions get in the way and feed my paranoia. 

I know a big part of the change that needs to happen needs to be me.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Mrs Doubt said:


> He does try every now and then, he has started putting lines on his hand to remind himself to ask me how my day went. But then I feel that he shouldn't have to be reminded but want to know.


I think it's unfair to be upset that he doesn't talk to you or initiate conversations about your day but to also be upset with the way he chooses to try to get better at it. You've indicated you want him to ask you about your day more and that doesn't come naturally to him. So, in order to make you happier, he has devised a way to remember to do that which you're asking. I think that shows he cares and wants to make you happier. 

If asking about your day doesn't come naturally to him it just doesn't. He can't change that. But, if he uses this method he has come up with over and over, it's possible that with time it will start to come naturally to him. Just like how I used to have to depend on an alarm to get me up by 5am but after 5 years of getting up at 5 I no longer need the alarm. 

You asked him to make a change, he's working on it. Give him some time to sort it out. In the meantime, you should be appreciative that he is trying and know that the reason he is trying is because he knows it's important to you. That alone should tell you he loves you.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

#2 ...... he has a drinking problem, read #1 again.


----------



## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Somehow I missed the part about him drinking too much. That is a big problem. But instead of working on making him stop, you need to work on how you deal with it. Here in the US there is an organization called Al Anon and it helps family members of people with drinking problems. I'd see if there is something in the UK that is similar. It's not about you figuring out how to make him stop, it's about you learning how to live with his problem and not get sucked into his problem.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Based on what you've said, you are difficult (maybe impossible) to please and you don't like your husband. You want him to be someone else. When he tries to please you, it's not what you want. You want him to feel it rather than doing something to make you happy.

I understand that you are depressed, but what are you doing to resolve the depression rather than blame your problems on your husband? I'm sorry if I don't seem very empathetic, but you seem to have an unhealthy perspective on life in general, which may be the root of your depression.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

A baby will definitely complicate your life. Don't get pregnant until your marriage is in a better place.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Mrs Doubt said:


> We have had a talk this morning. He acknowledged my saddness but his reaction is to just apologise, nothing really comes of it.


He doesn't know how to help with it, so that makes him feel worse. 



> I have reconsidered counselling, I had it before. I'm in the UK and good counsellors are not readily available.


Depending where you are in the UK, but try beftcentre.org for an EFT marriage counsellor. 

Also I agree with the others, this is not a good time to get pregnant.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I'm after some advice on how to begin the conversation I know we need to have. I'm feeling worse each day and want to be the team that we used to be.


I am the worlds worst listener! My wife and I have kids, so whenever she is talking I assume she is talking to one of them and it is not until she is furious at me that I am like, "oh wait you are talking to me!" 

Why is that? Well if anyone ever bothered to listen to me, I would explain that you have to get my attention first. Sometimes that might take a while, especially if I am in deep thought trying to think through a problem at work or if I am focusing on reading/watching the news. 

Here are some tips if your husband is like me:



Don't watch live TV, instead stream something so that it can be paused in the event you need to talk to each other. Buy a TIVO if necessary so that live TV can be paused.
Make sure you have his attention before talking to him. A "yes" does not mean you have his attention as that is just a simple social interaction that just means that he is aware that you are talking. Make sure you also have eye contact and THEN begin talking. 
If your husband is busy thinking through something, ask him if he needs a moment before talking to him. This will give him a chance to let you know what he is struggling with emotionally that you may not be aware of at the moment. 
If there is simple things that you need him to remember, make a list and write them down. Better yet, synchronize your smartphone calendar with his so that you can set reminders.

If my wife tells me that tomorrow I need to pick up something from the grocery store in the morning before doing anything else. I will forget! Anything outside of my normal routines, I forget. So I might have to go outside right when my wife says that and put a note on the dashboard that says, "buy stamps." If my wife tells me that while I am watching the news, I will assume she was talking to the kids. You can see how easily things can get pretty bad...

Anyway, hope that helps.

Regards,
Badsanta


----------



## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

CynthiaDe said:


> Based on what you've said, you are difficult (maybe impossible) to please and you don't like your husband. You want him to be someone else. When he tries to please you, it's not what you want. You want him to feel it rather than doing something to make you happy.
> 
> I understand that you are depressed, but what are you doing to resolve the depression rather than blame your problems on your husband? I'm sorry if I don't seem very empathetic, but you seem to have an unhealthy perspective on life in general, which may be the root of your depression.


I don't think I'm impossible to please. If anything I'm a push over and this is where our problems come from. He is very much in charge in our life, not in an abusive way, I moved in to his house and his opinion is what we normally go with because I am easier to please than he is. From simple things like what we watch or eat, to bigger things like holidays. I'm not as awkward doing stuff that was mainly his idea as he is mine, so we tend to do his stuff. 
I don't always have the words or courage to say at the time when things he does upset me, like rude comments about my job to other people or me having to not see my friends because he doesn't like them.

I know that my own depression manifests in rumination and that because I don't talk about these thoughts they can lead me down dark paths. The thing that I've realised as the stem of our problems is that we don't talk anymore. I've got to the point where I feel that he doesn't want to know what I have to say. I feel like this because in the past he has complained when I talk about my day or made fun of me.

I don't find it easy to talk about my emotions in the first place and I think this makes him feel awkward as well, so we just don't. That is until they are spilling over. 

He is ex-forces so suffers with his own mental health, he doesn't talk about how he is feeling and I guess that has made me think that I shouldn't either.

I'm well aware that I need more help with my depression. I've been on medication for years and been on courses in the past. It has only recently got to a point where I feel that I'm ready to accept more help again. I've always been brought up to just get on with things, no matter how bad they get.

Thank you to everyone for the advice so far. I have made a gp appointment and hope that that will give me somewhere to start a deeper conversation with my husband. I believe part of my depression comes from having tried for a baby now for nearly a year and it not happening. Several false alarms have left me emotionally battered and I don't know how to explain this to a man who needs black and white problems that he can provide a solution to.

Being on here has helped me to think through what I want and some steps to feel better- which is what I needed. I was at the point where I didn't know what to do to feel better, so I couldn't even advise my husband of this.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I don't think I'm impossible to please.
> 
> It’s easy to write off your complaints as you being impossible to please. But I’m not sure that’s the issue here. To me it sounds like you need a good amount of non-sexual intimacy and you are not getting it. So you are focused and calling it depression. From what I see you have a valid complaint. The question is how you deal so that you get what you need from your relationship. What’s the point of being married if it’s not meeting your needs?
> 
> ...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> I would sit him down in a way where you're touching/cuddling (I think most heart to heart talks should be done this way), and tell him that intimate conversation is something you need in order to feel connected with him. That you need to feel like you're connected to what he thinks, feels, and goes through, on a daily basis. And that you need to feel that he's connected to you in the same way.
> 
> Ideally, the position you're in should allow you to look at each other, while touching. Facing towards each other on the couch, and entwining your legs is a good one. If you want to be bit more up close and personal, he can lean back against the armrest on the couch, you can straddle him, and he can slide his feet up and plant them on the couch so his thighs are standing there behind you. Put a pillow against his thighs, lean back, and you're set! :grin2:


I agree with this in concept but respectfully, such a serious approach may not always be the best.

If a couple can sit quietly while not talking, just knowing they love each other, that's good too.

Then when there's conversation it's in a way no one feels it's forced. 

Kindly, could you be over thinking it a bit, and feeling the resulting stress that keeps the negative loop going?

Just a thought. 

Hang in there, you two will find a natural rythm.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You need to find a way out of this sort of thinking. A lot of depressed people do this. They crawl into their heads and then collect all sorts of nonsense that drives them crazy. It’s like being a hoarder, but instead of hording junk, you hoard depressing thoughts. Then like a hoarder of things, you spending your mental time moving those depressing thoughts around.


This is a brilliant way to describe depressive thinking. 




EleGirl said:


> You need to start doing things with your female friends and family members. Start planning something with them at least once a week. Do you have someone that you can call up and talk to? Someone who you can unload on? I have a couple of close female friends and family members who I can do this with and they with me in return.
> 
> Another thing that I find very helpful when I have something driving me nuts, or depressing me, is to write about it. I guess that’s journaling. I do this on the computer because I can type about as fast as I think. I just sit there typing out my thoughts as fast as they flow…. Pages and pages of it. The odd think is that once I get to the point that I have nothing more running through my head, I stop writing. And I usually have dealt with it and it’s not a problem anymore. I generally have come to a solution. I don’t even keep the ‘journaling’ that I just typed out because when I go back and re-read it, I sound like a nut. Don’t want anyone to find that.  Try it. You are upset today? Write/type it out until you are tired of writing/typing. Sometimes we just need to get it out of our heads.


This is a really good suggestion.

I have been around depression, although not suffered with it myself, and my personal experience and inclination to be a solver was that it challenged me in knowing how to navigate the dynamic. Without knowing better at the time, I tried a variety of interactions, which often left me feeling frustrated. At times I felt I was walking on eggshells, not knowing what mood or reaction I was going to encounter. I'm not presumptive that your husband feels this way, however, just throwing another perspective forward. It is good you have an appointment and considering what you can do to help yourself.

What I'd like to suggest is to start speaking up more. Even if you are easy going, start choosing some of your own preferences. And, start telling him to cut out the crap when you feel he is being rude. It doesn't need to be aggressive, but don't shy away from confrontation.

My husband has low tolerance for complaining, or not taking responsibility for oneself. Sometimes we joke about this; I am more inclined towards the empathy route, he is more towards taking the ownership route. There's a place for both perspectives. Sometimes I used to consider whether something was worth me speaking up about, energy-wise. I was kidding myself that this meant I was easy-going. Now I readily speak my mind, regardless. And I trust the intention between us. After several years, this has organically spilled out into other areas of my life. Work included. This has meant that stuff is typically dealt with in the moment, and only snippets come home with me, or exchanged with a friend. Recently I was blatantly honest with my manager. It wasn't a conversation I planned to have. The outcome was the manager demonstrated trust in me in return. When I shared the conversation with my husband, and his reaction was 'Whoa! That's a big conversation..what a day you've had!' That it really made me realize what a difference this was to how I would have dealt with things a few years ago. Like you, Mrs Doubt, I was raised to have a 'stiff upper lip'. Unlearning that can seem simple, yet is simultaneously liberating. I'm not sure if any of this helps, I just encourage you to slowly but surely, stop being easy-going and speak your mind with good intention.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Definitely speak your mind when you want. 

If you're clear to yourself you are actively doing this you'll be able to reign in and put an end to, and this is huge, take this to heart - you'll stop having the:

"I wish I'd said... ", or "I really wanted to/didn't want to do this (his idea to do something) type of thoughts it appears that are staying in your thoughts, a negative way of living. 

If you're believing and knowing you're speaking up, all these endless thought replays/loops will reduce and stop. 

Best wishes!


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

To add to Ele's book suggestions, I think the same author has a book called "Steps to Romantic Love", and that book also has a workbook. If you have trouble talking off the cuff, going through a workbook togethr might be a good way to frame conversations.


----------

