# Completely Lost



## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

Hi all.... I am going through some things in my marriage that has left me feeling totally lost and I hope to find some insight here or some support if nothing else. 

First, I started seeing a therapist about a month ago. That may save some of you from offering that advice :grin2:

I have been married for 5 1/2 years. We've been together for 8 years. My first marriage. His second. 

For a few years now, I have been feeling like he and I are incompatible. I am very easy going and it seems like the smallest thing irritates him. I'm open-minded and when I try to offer a different view point on things, most of the time I am told "that's stupid" or "I think I'm better" or something along those lines. When I try to talk to him about my feelings, he says "Don't start your ****" or again that it's stupid or I'm too sensitive etc. It's NEVER a discussion and I never feel like he really cares. We've been having terrible fights which are happening more and more often. Name calling, belittling, sometimes outrageous accusations occur. I am no longer "in love" with him. I love him as a friend and care for him, but no longer have the longing to be with him. We do almost everything together: yard-work, errands, watch t.v. which I always thought was a really good thing until I realized that may be the ONLY good thing. 

I asked him to go to marriage counseling 2 years ago and he told me he would never do that, that it doesn't work, and basically just a big fat NO. 

Now that I have asked for a divorce, he's giving me everything I ever asked for... he wants to go to counseling, get joint bank accounts, go to restaurants I've always wanted to go to. He cried and pleaded for a week not to leave him, lost 7 pounds. We started doing the therapy sessions from the app "Lasting" this past Saturday. It's sponsored by The Knot. (Guys, it really surprised me how in-depth these sessions are! Some of you may want to look into this) Anyway, he's involved in the sessions and I see that he's trying out the things he's learning. That's great! Right? 

IDK.... I feel like I'm "over it". I've been trying to talk to him about my unhappiness for so long and now that he's doing them (I feel only bc I said divorce) it pisses me off! Am I being completely irrational about this? I feel like it's almost too late, but is it ever really too late to turn your marriage around? Are you able to rekindle being in love as opposed to just loving someone? And for how long will this behavior continue? Just Until the dust settles and then he's an *** again????

The last piece to the story.... I have feelings for someone else that I've been friends with for 11 years. I'm pretty certain they are reciprocated even though *NOTHING* has happened between us. I repeat, NOTHING physical has happened between us. We *do not* meet up for lunch or see each other alone. We *don't* talk on the phone. Text rarely. But I see him a couple of times a week through a club that my husband and I belong to. Actually, my husband and I have been members since before we started dating. But we socialized in different groups back then.

I feel so much guilt for having feelings for someone else, but I also know I tried for awhile with my husband and was always shut down. Mentally and Verbally abused. My friends say the old quote, "a leopard doesn't change his spots". 

Thoughts?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Number one, stay away from the other guy. Nothing good can come of acting on your feelings here. (You should have kept that to yourself because now everyone is going to jump on you about it and blame your wanting a divorce on this.)

I have been where you are. For myself, and many women from what I have seen, when I am done, i am DONE. Please know his "changes" are only temporary and a ploy to try and get you to stay. If you give in and stay, within a matter of weeks, he will be right back to the way he really is. *I have lived this.* Your H sounds sooo much like one of my ex's, its scary. 

Stay the course and end it.


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> Number one, stay away from the other guy. Nothing good can come of acting on your feelings here. (You should have kept that to yourself because now everyone is going to jump on you about it and blame your wanting a divorce on this.)
> 
> I have been where you are. For myself, and many women from what I have seen, when I am done, i am DONE. Please know his "changes" are only temporary and a ploy to try and get you to stay. If you give in and stay, within a matter of weeks, he will be right back to the way he really is. *I have lived this.* Your H sounds sooo much like one of my ex's, its scary.
> 
> Stay the course and end it.


Thank you. I won't act on any feelings and I know this other guy wouldn't either. He's what I have always thought of as a respectable man. I also appreciate you informing me that maybe I should have kept this part to myself for fear everyone would blame this on the reason why my marriage seems to be falling apart. I did try to distinctly and precisely note that NOTHING has happened between us, but I see your point. 

So, stay my course and divorce? You're quote or signature I guess speaks volumes to me. I have felt my happiness being sucked right out of me for so long and tried conveying this to him numerous times in several ways without any results. 

But, is it possible that the "shock factor" could make him see how he's been treating me and want to change for the better?


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

You’re not in love with your husband anymore because you are in love with someone else. You should stop seeing the OM ASAP, divorce your husband, and then you can do what you want. Also, confess to your husband that you are in an affair for 11 years and that you meet together several times a week. He deserves to know.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@Divine_Peace, I think another word for what your husband is doing is called "too little, too late". As @3Xnocharm stated above, he is only doing all of those things you've been asking him to do because he knows that you are no longer emotionally invested in the relationship. As soon as you pull off the throttle he will go right back to being "him". He is who he is. If you cannot accept that then you need to move on with your life.

I'm curious, how old are you and your husband?


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## Onarollercoaster (Nov 7, 2019)

How long have you felt attracted to the other man?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Divine_Peace said:


> But, is it possible that the "shock factor" could make him see how he's been treating me and want to change for the better?


Possibly, but not likely for the long term. And even if it did, would your feelings suddenly come back?


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> You’re not in love with your husband anymore because you are in love with someone else. You should stop seeing the OM ASAP, divorce your husband, and then you can do what you want. Also, confess to your husband that you are in an affair for 11 years and that you meet together several times a week. He deserves to know.


Sorry idk what OM means, but No I DO NOT meet up with him several times a week. As I stated, he is a member of the same club both my husband and I are members to. My husband and I go together to the club, not separate. I don't feel like an attraction or feelings for someone else is an affair when there aren't phone calls, meet ups, etc. But thank you for your POV.

Ah... Other Man... got it.


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

Lila said:


> @Divine_Peace, I think another word for what your husband is doing is called "too little, too late". As @3Xnocharm stated above, he is only doing all of those things you've been asking him to do because he knows that you are no longer emotionally invested in the relationship. As soon as you pull off the throttle he will go right back to being "him". He is who he is. If you cannot accept that then you need to move on with your life.
> 
> I'm curious, how old are you and your husband?


Yes, the "too little, too late" has crossed my mind. That's why I wonder if rekindling is possible or if it rarely happens. My husband is 50. I'm 40.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Divine_Peace said:


> IDK.... I feel like I'm "over it". I've been trying to talk to him about my unhappiness for so long and now that he's doing them (I feel only bc I said divorce) it pisses me off! Am I being completely irrational about this?


No, you're not being irrational.



Divine_Peace said:


> And for how long will this behavior continue? Just Until the dust settles and then he's an *** again????


It WON'T continue. And the dust is going to settle very quickly. If it lasts 3 months, that will be a miracle, but normally it only lasts an average of 3 weeks. So, as soon as the two of you stop the counseling or finish the counseling, you will be able to time it at 2-3 weeks when he starts his crap again, like @3Xnocharm indicated. I have never experienced what you have been going through because I am entirely intolerant of any kind of abuse, mistreatment, unkindness, or insensitivity. So while I have known guys like yours, they quickly got the boot. The longest was 3 months and only that long because of the particular circumstances. After him, I attended abuse counseling and since that time, I have spent more than 10 years (more like 13 or 14) in informal study of relationships and stepfamily dynamics. What I know is you and your husband are very common. I am telling you it is NOT going to last. He will turn back into himself in very short order.

To gain a better understanding of guys like your husband, this article, *Romeo Is Bleeding: When Mr. Right Turns Out To Be Mr. Wrong*, will give you some insight into his twisted mind. There's also the book, *Why Does He Do That: Inside The Minds of Angry and Controlling Men*. These will help you to heal. You should also look into counseling. If you dial 211, the information line can offer the phone numbers to some domestic violence shelters in your area. Call around to see which ones offer counseling. Some have counselors on premises and allow non-resident victims of abuse to attend, and it won't cost you anything.

Please read the article, read the book, and go to counseling. You won't think you need it but you do. Abused women have a tendency to take their experience to heart, blame themselves, or, in the very least, it makes them feel devalued and unworthy of love. But even though it feels personal because it happened to you, it's not personal and has nothing to do with you personally. He would be the exact same way with any woman he married because of the way HE is, not because of the way the woman is. So you see, it's not personal at all. It just happened to be you that he was able to dupe into marrying him. Men like him are very skilled and charming that way.



Divine_Peace said:


> I feel so much guilt for having feelings for someone else, but I also know I tried for awhile with my husband and was always shut down.


People want love and attention. We want to love and be loved, and the psyche craves attention, so it's no surprise that you began having feelings for someone else. It's a survival mechanism your psyche employs in effort to redeem your sense of self and your sense of value and self worth, as well as to express your need for love and companionship. What the psyche needs is psychological, if not physiological too. What the heart needs is emotional. But your conscious mind has to be stronger than them in order to exercise your good and common sense to make logical and rational decisions and choices. It's really great that you haven't acted on those feelings, and you can't until you end your marriage. Although, I wouldn't blame you if you did. Like anyone else, I loathe cheating and cheaters. But I do understand how an abused woman feels and her need to redeem her self worth, so I tend to empathize when an abused woman cheats. But again, you can't. Be good and decent about it. Your pride and dignity are more important. Getting rid of that jerk in your life will be the best revenge and the best for you in the end. 

And don't ever tolerate mistreatment again. Not even for a day. When a guy shows you who he is, show him the door....no matter how much you think you love him.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Your husband treated you like crap for a long time. From my perspective, once you dropped the "D-bomb" he woke up to reality. 

Here's one thing I'd like to know: Do YOU think/feel/see him making what you would consider sincere changes. After all, you know him and we don't. As a rule, I can tell b.s. from sincerity; it's just gut instinct. Maybe you scared him enough that he realized what he has to lose if you walk.

OTOH, when I'm done, I'm DONE. I was married to someone like your husband. Mine made no effort to change, however, so I changed for him by moving out and divorcing him.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Divine_Peace said:


> But, is it possible that the "shock factor" could make him see how he's been treating me and want to change for the better?


No, it doesn't matter now because it's too late being that he's gotten away with it for too long. Had you not tolerated it from the start, there could have been hope he would turn it around once realizing you weren't going to let him treat you that way. But you've been letting him treat you that way for so long that he will think all he has to do is be good for a minute and then he can go back to being his wonderful - and superior - self. That's how he thinks of himself. He can't change that now. I wouldn't doubt it has a lot to do with his first marriage ending.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Divine_Peace said:


> Sorry idk what OM means, but No I DO NOT meet up with him several times a week. As I stated, he is a member of the same club both my husband and I are members to. My husband and I go together to the club, not separate. I don't feel like an attraction or feelings for someone else is an affair when there aren't phone calls, meet ups, etc. But thank you for your POV.
> 
> Ah... Other Man... got it.


Your inan EA emotional affair, and it plays out in YOUR mind you already checked out. This is apparent, why do you think you need strangers affirmation, is it to justify your deepest desires? And if you can't be honest here to complete strangers here and take the flame throwing, that may happen shows. Not what you don't seem to realize it you know what your thinking is wrong you just want some to give you the green light. HERE IT COMES DIVORCE HIM!

But don't think yourself better than him your not just because you have not acted on an impulse you somehow believe your some what justified your not. In today's world you don't need an excuse to give a divorce just go and file. But you should do some personal reflection, because when you carry in and EA for 11 years maybe subconsciously you really fully engaged as a wife. You can type out words here but only you know, the real you. Let him go your checked out. Some one said here here " there's nothing more gone, than a woman who's checked out"


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> You should have kept that (the OM) to yourself because now everyone is going to jump on you about it and blame your wanting a divorce on this.


She needed to be honest and was.
@3Xnocharm, my friend, you need to be honest here. King Brian is waiting for some sort of retraction. No tap dancing or Irish line dancing....please.

Of course, her feelings for the OM plays a part in this. She is only human. 

Why would you ask her to lie, by omission?

This OM has given her what Dear Flubby did not. 
Tick, tick, tick.....

What is it? Umm, hope, for a better future. :smile2:

Is it right, left, correct. No.
But it is....felt.

I agree that she think this one through....more.

I think she has been taken (too far) away by her new feelings for the OM.

The OM may take advantage or her situation and use her for a while and then leave her high and dry.
These things happen.

-Or-

She may 'later' get together with him after divorce and then find him unsuitable, too, three, four Gods sake.
Or, it may work out with him, just peachy.

I think she needs to separate and file for divorce. 
She has been had/taken by Fate.

It was cruel Fate with her now husband, she may get a better Fate with the new fellow.

I say run with it. 
Divorce, then seek out #2 fellow.

You only live once. 
You can marry more than once, many do. Toodle-ooh

Remain honest to yourself and maintain a good as possible image.
Part amicably...if possible.



Lilith McGarvey


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My advice?

Cut the other guy out of your life, at least for now. At best he's a distraction, and at worse he's the trigger for this. In either case, he's bad news for you right now.

You need to make it totally clear and in no uncertain terms that your marriage is over and there's nothing he can do about it. It sounds like you're done, so be done, and the sooner he accepts this, the better off you'll both be.

Call a lawyer, separate your assets and where you live, and get this done. Once the dust settles - at least 6 months to a year, minimum - then revisit your feelings for this other guy.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Wow, women of TAM suddenly forgiving of inappropriate extramarital affairs? When did that happen? It’s all on the husband?? What am I missing?

OP loves another man. How can she love her husband also? Yes, I believe she should ditch, but to blame the husband is flat out wrong. Before she ditches, she should tell her husband that she couldn’t put 100% into the marriage because she had another man on her mind and in her thoughts.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

It sounds like he has given you lots of reason to be unhappy. To your best guess, do you think his change in behavior will last, or is just an attempt to keep you from leaving?

Does he have good points that make up for the negative ones you have posted.

Most important - for you to as yourself and be as honest as you can: do you still love him? If not, they you are not doing either of you a favor by staying 





Divine_Peace said:


> SNIP
> 
> For a few years now, I have been feeling like he and I are incompatible. I am very easy going and it seems like the smallest thing irritates him. I'm open-minded and when I try to offer a different view point on things, most of the time I am told "that's stupid" or "I think I'm better" or something along those lines. When I try to talk to him about my feelings, he says "Don't start your ****" or again that it's stupid or I'm too sensitive etc. It's NEVER a discussion and I never feel like he really cares. We've been having terrible fights which are happening more and more often. Name calling, belittling, sometimes outrageous accusations occur. I am no longer "in love" with him. I love him as a friend and care for him, but no longer have the longing to be with him. We do almost everything together: yard-work, errands, watch t.v. which I always thought was a really good thing until I realized that may be the ONLY good thing.
> 
> ...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

For women, when we try and try and try and there’s no change, love doesn’t usually come back. Could it? Maybe. But you’ve moved on so I would say it won’t. Get a divorce and give it some time before you get involved with your friend. That’s the right thing to do.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Wow, women of TAM suddenly forgiving of inappropriate extramarital affairs? When did that happen? It’s all on the husband?? What am I missing?
> 
> OP loves another man. How can she love her husband also? Yes, I believe she should ditch, but to blame the husband is flat out wrong. Before she ditches, she should tell her husband that she couldn’t put 100% into the marriage because she had another man on her mind and in her thoughts.


You're really taking everything out of context. There's not inappropriate and she's not in love with another man. She's just fantasizing mainly and mistaking that for feelings of love out of her need to be loved. They are not invested, have not shared anything together, and don't really even have any contact, so it's not an extramarital affair or even an emotional affair. It's not like she has him waiting in the wings or carrying on behind her husband's back. Where did you get all that from?

But you're darned straight, her husband deserves whatever he gets.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Your husband was emotionally neglectful and abusive for years. Maybe your love could come back, maybe not.

The real test for him would be if you went through the divorce. If he remained contrite, humble and kind all the way through until the end, then was kind to you afterwards, maybe you could be friends again. After some time of him being consistently the new, attentive, counselling going, bettering himself man, you might fall back in love with him.

Those are a lot of hurdles for him to jump over, but it has happened.

P.S. Stay away from that other guy and get him out of your head until your divorce is final.

P.S.S. How do you know that the feeling is mutual? That spells red flag to me.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Quote:
The last piece to the story....

"I have feelings for someone else that I've been friends with for 11 years. I'm pretty certain they are reciprocated"

even though NOTHING has happened between us.

I repeat, NOTHING physical has happened between us. We do not meet up for lunch or see each other alone. We don't talk on the phone.

" Text rarely. "

" But I see him a couple of times a week through a club that my husband and I belong to."

End quote.

To me this looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, so it must be a duck....

These by her own words are an omission of her obsession of her love, enticement, desire, of a EA she just hasn't acted on it yet. So l guess it is how you read it, because her husband is a loser/abuser and really doesn't deserve a second chance. 
But because of that it does not let her off the hook, and she's already said ILYBNILWY, that's a cheater phrase, or by someone who wants out. 

And has a target already in view.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> You’re not in love with your husband anymore because you are in love with someone else. You should stop seeing the OM ASAP, divorce your husband, and then you can do what you want. Also, confess to your husband that you are in an affair for 11 years and that you meet together several times a week. He deserves to know.


Errr, read what she actually wrote pluzzzzz! She is NOT seeing the OM, she is NOT in an affair ffs! Can't you read! I love how you simply gloss over all the **** her H has pulled in her short years of marriage. Enough already!

Op made a mistake talking about this OM which she is not doing with cause the trigger happy buggers here will jump on that and ignore everything else about her abusive husband, cause yes he is abusive.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Divine_Peace said:


> Hi all.... I am going through some things in my marriage that has left me feeling totally lost and I hope to find some insight here or some support if nothing else.
> 
> First, I started seeing a therapist about a month ago. That may save some of you from offering that advice :grin2:
> 
> ...



Your husband is abusive. I suspect he either has NPD pr BPD, shutting down other people's opinions, refusing to engage, calling you stupid, irritated easily, no empathy, when you are about to walk then the love bombing, it is all there. Ask him to be diagnosed. Why did his first marriage fail?

I would suggest he is just love bombing to keep you. Narcissists do not like to lose anyone, they are the ones who must do the dumping/divorcing. He will not change, but go back to his former ways. Did he tell you that his ex-wife was absolutely insane/ crazy/a witch, etc? Proceed with the divorce.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

What is wrong with all the males on this thread. The OM is not a trigger, the abusive treatment by OP's husband is the bloody trigger. Unbelievable that this particular fact is being simply glossed over.
I do agree she should dump his ass from the first day he started abusing her verbally, period.

T


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

RebuildingMe said:


> Wow, women of TAM suddenly forgiving of inappropriate extramarital affairs? When did that happen? It’s all on the husband?? What am I missing?
> 
> OP loves another man. How can she love her husband also? Yes, I believe she should ditch, but to blame the husband is flat out wrong. Before she ditches, she should tell her husband that she couldn’t put 100% into the marriage because she had another man on her mind and in her thoughts.


did you read the post i read? Seems not.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Openminded said:


> For women, when we try and try and try and there’s no change, love doesn’t usually come back. Could it? Maybe. But you’ve moved on so I would say it won’t. Get a divorce and give it some time before you get involved with your friend. That’s the right thing to do.


Men don't understand this either. It's nigh impossible to love an abusive man, there has to be a limit and OP has reached hers.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Divine_Peace, he treats you like trash and you want to give him a chance? Won't work. I think he's conning you by going to MC. Start a 180 and dump the other guy. But I'd guess that your H is one of these guys who knows everything. Your marriage doesn't look good.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> Now that I have asked for a divorce, he's giving me everything I ever asked for... he wants to go to counseling, get joint bank accounts, go to restaurants I've always wanted to go to.


Yeah, that's pretty much par for the course - a spouse suddenly "wanting" to do all these things they absolutely *refused* to do up until you said you were leaving. Then, as if by magic, they do this 180 and they're suddenly ALL about doing the very things you've asked for over and over and over and over and over and over year after year after year.

Why, it's a Christmas miracle!

People don't change at their core. He's just on his best behavior because he stands to *LOSE* something. He's not unique, he's not special, he's just doing what most of them do.

I read your post on the introduction board and apparently, you want to blame ALL his **** behavior on PTSD but said you didn't really go into it on this thread. Well, you can only blame a disorder SO much, you know? You're not going to tell me this guy was a saint and then suddenly he became this nasty, verbally abusive POS all because of PTSD. You're making excuses.

I've always said, when a woman is done, she's DONE. You sound like you're done, so just OWN it. I don't blame you one bit for wanting to leave. But as is usually the case, now that you're done and want to leave, your abusive husband is *suddenly* all about trying to fix things *because he stands to LOSE something.* Not because he realizes what a prick he's been and knows that you deserve much more, it's because he stands to LOSE something.

Let that sink in for a minute. Then, for another minute. This isn't about YOU. It's about HIM and what he stands to lose.

Just be done with this phony ass-clown. Right now, he's doing whatever he can so he doesn't lose you. Check back with us in 3 or 4 months (if he even lasts THAT long) and tell us how he's gone right back to his old ways. Because as I said, people rarely change at their core and he's NO different than anyone else.

Too much, too little, too late.


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Divine_Peace said:


> For a few years now, I have been feeling like he and I are incompatible. I am very easy going and it seems like the smallest thing irritates him. I'm open-minded and when I try to offer a different view point on things, most of the time I am told "that's stupid" or "I think I'm better" or something along those lines. When I try to talk to him about my feelings, he says "Don't start your ****" or again that it's stupid or I'm too sensitive etc. It's NEVER a discussion and I never feel like he really cares. We've been having terrible fights which are happening more and more often. *Name calling, belittling, sometimes outrageous accusations occur.* I am no longer "in love" with him. I love him as a friend and care for him, but no longer have the longing to be with him. We do almost everything together: yard-work, errands, watch t.v. which I always thought was a really good thing until I realized that may be the ONLY good thing.


Divine_Peace, I am really sorry you are in this situation but I have to ask and feel you should be asking yourself “Why did I marry a man like this?” You had to of known these things about your husband before you got married and you just ignored the signs. Or did you get married way too soon after starting to date? No one can hide there true self for long, I think when we are in the dating fog we have a habit of overlooking these faults.

I feel that you need to forget about this other man, and maybe for the moment your husband as well and focus on yourself in some one on one therapy to figure out why you pick bad man. If you don’t your just going to go from bad man to bad man.

I wish you the best of luck!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Your husband showed you the way he really is...he will change for the short term because he doesn't want to divorce...but he's still the same guy and will revert back.


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Quote:
> and she's already said ILYBNILWY, that's a cheater phrase,


What does that mean? ILYBNILWY????


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Divine_Peace said:


> What does that mean? ILYBNILWY????




I love you but Im not in love with you



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Daisy12 said:


> Divine_Peace, I am really sorry you are in this situation but I have to ask and feel you should be asking yourself “Why did I marry a man like this?” You had to of known these things about your husband before you got married and you just ignored the signs. Or did you get married way too soon after starting to date? No one can hide there true self for long, I think when we are in the dating fog we have a habit of overlooking these faults.
> 
> I feel that you need to forget about this other man, and maybe for the moment your husband as well and focus on yourself in some one on one therapy to figure out why you pick bad man. If you don’t your just going to go from bad man to bad man.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck!


Daisy12, this is incredibly judgmental and unfair. I know you're right that women very often ignore the signs and end up with an abusive man, who had been abusive all the long. But there are also the other stories that occur just as often, if not more frequently, where the woman is duped into the relationship. He's Mr. Charming, Mr. Wonderful, and as described in the Romeo's Bleeding article that I linked, he's Mr. Right but later turns out to be Mr. Wrong. Those are the ones who do and say all the right things to get a woman (to get someone to abuse, in other words) and then turn into their true selves later. 

So, it's not hardly the simple matter of "you had to know these things about your husband before you got married." She describes verbal/mental/emotional abuse, gaslighting, insensitivity, minimizing, and so on, but she doesn't say when any of it began. They've been together 8 years, married for 5½, and it's been the past few years that she's been having thoughts of incompatibility but doesn't indicate how long he has been abusing her or when it started. 

Go a little easier on her, please. It's common for abused women to take a while to become aware of the abuse. And just like her, they don't even know they are being abused. As you can see, she never once stated or even indicated that he is abusing her. She only described the abusive treatment and how it makes her feel. That's often what they do and usually not until they are downtrodden and reached the breaking point.


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

@manwithnoname, @Daisy12, @She'sStillGotIt, @[email protected], @aine, @Tilted 1, @Adelais, @StarFires, @Openminded, @uhtred, @3Xnocharm, @RebuildingMe, @Lila, @Onarollercoaster, @Prodigal, @SunCMars, @Marduk


WOW!!! First of all, Thank you all for the feedback. I'd like to start today by answering a few questions and possibly clearing up some miscommunication. 

1. I have only had an attraction or feelings for the OM for about 6 months. So how in the he** some of you thought I was "in love" with this man or have had feelings for 11 years is crazy. I said I've KNOWN him for 11 years, *not had feelings* for him for 11 years.

2. How do I think it may be reciprocated? Nothing verbal, nothing has ever been communicated. I suppose it's because he's intervened a couple of times when he's seen my husband mistreating me. Although, I realize now, that's probably just a man who doesn't like to see a woman being mistreated - nothing more and that's ok. 

3. Those of you who *think* I am asking for advice on leaving my husband for another man.... I ask politely for you to read, not skim, my initial post. For if this does go as far as divorce, I think I'd like to have some "ME" time before dating. I hated dating when I was single so that's not something I am hoping for or looking forward to doing.

I am not in love with anyone at this moment. I hope to see some real changes in my H and see we could grow from this. I am seeing my FRIEND in a new light b/c I know my emotional calls haven't been met by my husband for the most part of our marriage. 

I was really hoping for more guidance on my H and not for this to be made out like I'm an adulterer trying to justify my actions. I don't blame my H for everything failing in our marriage. After all, it takes two. I believe in Cause and Effect. I'm not perfect. Of course, I make mistakes. I am human. However, do I believe that I deserve to be abused because of my short-comings, my views on certain issues, because I can be stubborn and hard-headed at times, etc., NO! 

I guess I, more or less, was hoping for some enlightenment on why SOME men act like this and how to deal, cope, fix....idk. 

However, I find it very interesting that most of you all have the same "final answer" even though your reasons are different..... divorce. 

So, here's my question to you all... as a new member, Is this a Forum to help save marriages or a Forum to give up and walk away? Some of you that have been around awhile.... is most of the advice here divorce or work it out? Just curious......


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

3Xnocharm said:


> I love you but Im not in love with you
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you! Still trying to grasp some of the lingo here.... :laugh:


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

@StarFires, I honestly can't say when it began. But, for a long time I thought he was just in a bad mood, had a bad day, and I always thought of that saying that you take out your frustration on the people closest to you. I realize I was making excuses for him. I started looking up signs of abuse and controlling spouses and reading articles recently and was shocked at how on point most were in my marriage. I have started seeing a therapist, about a month ago, so it's new, but I'm going. Thank you for your suggestions and support!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Divine_Peace said:


> I guess I, more or less, was hoping for some enlightenment on why SOME men act like this and how to deal, cope, fix....idk.
> 
> However, I find it very interesting that most of you all have the same "final answer" even though your reasons are different..... divorce.
> 
> So, here's my question to you all... as a new member, Is this a Forum to help save marriages or a Forum to give up and walk away? Some of you that have been around awhile.... is most of the advice here divorce or work it out? Just curious......


So try to understand, this is why whoever said you should not have talked about your friend. 

And no, most of us do not thing you are having an affair. However, when you are trying to decide or work through your marriage, and opposite sex friend, even if no one has acted on anything, is not usually a good idea. 

Either, as you are working through this stuff, something could happen. Or it takes your focus off of what you are trying to decide or work through. 

That is what that is about... 

As far as your husband, what you describe is not got. To me, and I am a guy, it sounds like a guy that is basically unhappy, for whatever reason, and for whatever reason he is blaming you. 

The reason that people are saying divorce is the following: 

If you have tried more than once to have a calm talk, about how you want to be treated, what you want in a relationship, and he has not changed or gotten better at all...

Frankly, experience says to divorce. 

There are things you could do, but honestly they usually do not work. 

Does that help with anything?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sure, you can stay with him and see if he really does change and maybe your love for him will return. But just be aware that the odds aren’t good. Love doesn’t usually come back.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Divine_Peace said:


> I was really hoping for more guidance on my H and not for this to be made out like I'm an adulterer trying to justify my actions. I don't blame my H for everything failing in our marriage. After all, it takes two. I believe in Cause and Effect. I'm not perfect. Of course, I make mistakes. I am human. However, do I believe that I deserve to be abused because of my short-comings, my views on certain issues, because I can be stubborn and hard-headed at times, etc., NO!


So, in my last response (to Daisy12), I stated, "_That's often what they do and usually not until they are downtrodden and reached the breaking point,_" and was going to add "_because they spend the better part of the relationship thinking they are to blame and deserve to be abused._" I decided to omit that part but wish I'd left it in because you are blaming yourself and think you deserve to be abused. Another thing is you are hopeful he will change, which is another common characteristic of abused women. You just want things to go back to the way they used to be, but abusive men DON'T change. When they realize they have something to lose and actually have to pay for their actions, they become remorseful, crying, begging, pleading, and making all kinds of promises. It is all so very typical....and only temporary. It's all just more of their manipulative tactics. Just like he spends so much time convincing you that you're crazy, too sensitive, essentially unimportant and stupid, he also makes you believe he can change his ways in order to also convince you to stay, just like he's tried to convince you of all the other things that are not true. 

So now you think you are somehow complicit and the cause of the effects, the effects being his abusive actions and responses. You now think your feelings, your opinions, and your views are not valid because he convinced you they aren't. You called yourself hardheaded as if that man is your father, and you deserve to be indicted for not agreeing with him and not doing as he told you to do. All of it - every bit of this nonsense - is so typical of an abused woman.

No, dear. You DO NOT deserve to be abused. You need to free yourself from his mind control.



Divine_Peace said:


> I guess I, more or less, was hoping for some enlightenment on why SOME men act like this and how to deal, cope, fix....idk.


I gave you that, so please read the article and the book. All you have to do is spend a little bit of time googling, and you'll see how typical your husband's tactics are of abusive men. You will also find how typical you are as an abused woman. 

I'm sure I'll think of other things I didn't say and very probably regret omitting things I should have said but at the moment, I've done my best to enlighten you regarding the situation you're in. If you'd like more, please just ask. I will be happy to share.



Divine_Peace said:


> However, I find it very interesting that most of you all have the same "final answer" even though your reasons are different..... divorce.
> 
> So, here's my question to you all... as a new member, Is this a Forum to help save marriages or a Forum to give up and walk away? Some of you that have been around awhile.... is most of the advice here divorce or work it out? Just curious......


You are absolutely right. The major propensity of this forum is to do their best to tear marriages apart. It is absolutely sickening.

My personal efforts are usually to try to find ways to convince posters to work on their marriage. That's usually hard to do when everyone else is telling them to leave. And that's not even to mention that those telling them to leave don't leave their own sad situations, so go figure. But it's common on boards like these, believe me. 

But there is one exception to my general rule. In cases of abuse, I know from my own experience, the counseling I received, and the many years of informal study that there is only ONE way to deal with abuse, and that is to get away. To end your marriage is an extremely hard and hurtful decision, I know. But it's the one and only way to deal with an abusive man. You don't try to find ways to cope with abuse. You find ways to get away from it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

People tend to say that when a woman is done, she is done. In my own life, though, this hasn't always been true. Just sometimes. I was sometimes able to recover love feelings over time with someone I felt deadened to.

That being said, it's not at all unusual to hear the walkaway wife say that she has begged and pleaded for change for years, but the H just ignored her pleas. It's also very common for men to come on boards like this and admit that they heard all the pleas and ignored them. They were now desperate for advice on how to get their wives 'back.' My best friend says of her H: "He doesn't listen unless I'm standing at the door with my bags packed."

For better or worse, we have gender behavioral stereotypes and we can see patterns after reading many, many threads.

As for your H - You fell in love with him and married him for some reason.If he can get help and recover the person you fell in love with, it might be worth the risk of trying. I would give myself a mental deadline - say, six months of trying - to see how you feel. Wait and watch. And cut off communication with the friend you're infatuated with.

There's no magic formula. Set out a path for yourself that is honorable and honest and then follow it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Divine_Peace said:


> I guess I, more or less, was hoping for some enlightenment on why SOME men act like this and how to deal, cope, fix....idk.


The same reason that people cheat. Because they want to. Your husband didn't want to fix things when he felt safe, and is only trying now because he doesn't. Highly suspect he'll go right back to his old behavior as soon as he feels safe again.



> However, I find it very interesting that most of you all have the same "final answer" even though your reasons are different..... divorce.


My answer is divorce because you're not in love with him any more. You yourself have said it's over, so make it be over then.



> So, here's my question to you all... as a new member, Is this a Forum to help save marriages or a Forum to give up and walk away? Some of you that have been around awhile.... is most of the advice here divorce or work it out? Just curious......


I can't speak for TAM, but my goal here is to help people be happy. Not all marriages should be saved.

I sure wouldn't want to be married to a wife that didn't love me any more and had feelings for someone else. I'd want someone telling me to leave.

I also sure wouldn't want to be married to someone I don't love and don't want to be married to. I'd want someone to tell me to leave, too.

So there you are.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

alte Dame said:


> People tend to say that when a woman is done, she is done. In my own life, though, this hasn't always been true. Just sometimes. I was sometimes able to recover love feelings over time with someone I felt deadened to.
> 
> That being said, it's not at all unusual to hear the walkaway wife say that she has begged and pleaded for change for years, but the H just ignored her pleas. It's also very common for men to come on boards like this and admit that they heard all the pleas and ignored them. They were now desperate for advice on how to get their wives 'back.' My best friend says of her H: "He doesn't listen unless I'm standing at the door with my bags packed."
> 
> ...


And so how many times has she stood in the door with her bags packed?

I always feel like most guys don't know how to be a husband or what it means to have a wife. They turn their wife into the enemy. So, it's very often she ends up the Walkaway Wife, and he ends up shocked and desperate and making promises to change. Marriages like these are fixable if the wife is not done, has the patience to work on it, and is willing to give him another chance. The only problem is most people makeup and say they will try again. Most men say they will work on themselves and change. But nothing specific gets addressed, and they don't learn how to work on things to prevent making the same mistakes. So the same problems repeat themselves.

Nevertheless, DP's problem is different. This isn't the normal kind of marital problems that you refer to. It's not a matter of he just doesn't listen. Hers is a matter of abuse, and that kind of problem doesn't change......ever. it only escalates. Hoping for change and trying over and over again only gives him more opportunity to abuse. Statistics show the evidence. In fact, if she doesn't leave, the more chances she gives him, the more in danger she will be when she does try to leave.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

From our perspective, which yet remains varied, we agree on this, our lifetime is limited. 

You can gamble with most anything but not with your life.
Once gone, it does not return. 

Wasted time is time shot dead.

All those years wasted, why add more time to the funeral pyre that is your marriage.

If you honestly feel you cannot do better than the man you married, stay married.
If not, jump away from the flames.
Divorce, start over.

Your call, always has been.


The HeadMates-


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I gave the advice I did because I have lived this myself. I was married to someone just exactly like you describe your husband. And the same thing happened. Once I was heading out the door he suddenly started paying attention to me, smothering me actually. I was beyond DONE and all he did was piss me off even more. And all those things he was supposedly changing... went right out the door. He remarried after our divorce and she dealt with exactly the same crap I did. She eventually left too. 

I am like Marduk, I want people to be happy. And I know that will not be possible for you if you stay married to this man. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Bluuespower, alte Dame, and Marduk says alot of things very well. I stand behind what l have said.

Now you must know, PTSD is not a ticket or a free pass. But l do suffer with it, and by no means does it make a person be CRUEL or MEAN but because you may not know of this is why now l mention it so I'll address it. PTSD in it's self is quiet until it rears it ugly head when something cause you overwhelmed ( triggered) in an instant two emotions come forward they are fight or flight. And it's a personal conflict not so much an outward experience. 

So it is never just one sided because of fear, will cause the person to move away to protect themselves. And all you have said says he is just truly Cruel and abusive. ( And when l experience it at times, but rarely do try to repeat the cause of my triggers) it is never abusive.

As much as I wish that most marriages to be saved some are not worthy of saving. My concern for you is that he truly may hurt you. Take advantage of this time. Maybe to leave safely! 

I do not know what is in your heart, only you do. Do l think it would be best to leave, only you know. But it is best to get it all out here in the open this way you will have covered all options. Then you can make your choice. ( And live with yourself)

Lastly just because some here have alot of post, doesn't necessarily give them the all knowing ability even if they think so. Everyone has an opinion and yes you have to have thick skin to see all thoughts posted. 

Lastly do l think you should leave, l don't know but l advised you with my experiences in my life only to possibly guide you in yours.


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## Divine_Peace (Nov 7, 2019)

Tilted 1 said:


> Bluuespower, alte Dame, and Marduk says alot of things very well. I stand behind what l have said.
> 
> Now you must know, PTSD is not a ticket or a free pass. But l do suffer with it, and by no means does it make a person be CRUEL or MEAN but because you may not know of this is why now l mention it so I'll address it. PTSD in it's self is quiet until it rears it ugly head when something cause you overwhelmed ( triggered) in an instant two emotions come forward they are fight or flight. And it's a personal conflict not so much an outward experience.
> 
> ...


I believe someone has mistaken me for another post. I don't think he has PTSD, never said that. Not even in my introductory post where someone said I said that. That was someone else entirely. 

Nevertheless, I thank you for the advice and warnings. House is in my name so it sucks that I would have to leave, but it's just a house, right? :frown2: From other things I know he wouldn't leave easily.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Divine_Peace said:


> *For a few years now, I have been feeling like he and I are incompatible*. I am very easy going and it seems like the smallest thing irritates him. I'm open-minded and when I try to offer a different view point on things, most of the time I am told "that's stupid" or "I think I'm better" or something along those lines. When I try to talk to him about my feelings, he says "Don't start your ****" or again that it's stupid or I'm too sensitive etc. *It's NEVER a discussion and I never feel like he really cares.* We've been having terrible fights which are happening more and more often. Name calling, belittling, sometimes outrageous accusations occur. *I am no longer "in love" with him.* I love him as a friend and care for him, but no longer have the longing to be with him. We do almost everything together: yard-work, errands, watch t.v. which I always thought was a really good thing until I realized that may be the ONLY good thing.
> 
> I asked him to go to marriage counseling 2 years ago and he told me he would never do that, that it doesn't work, and basically just a big fat NO.
> 
> ...


Since you clarified that the other guy stepped in for you when your husband was abusing you, is that all? Do you think you may have developed feelings for him because he acted like your knight in shining armor in a time of need, but not because of anything deeper? Just be aware that if you divorce your husband and then start seeing him (if he even wants to) there may not actually be anything there on his part, he might have just been giving you advice and protection as a friend.

With regard to my suggestion for divorce, I was going on the things you said in your initial post. Maybe you don't feel that way every day, and you were just at that place on the day you wrote that post? I understand how that can happen.

You really gave the impression of being what is called a Walk Away Wife. You have told him how you have felt for years, and he never heard you, much less changed, and you finally had enough.

Do you think that your anger about his now wanting to change is because you still have feelings for him? When you finally had the courage to say "That's enough" he decides to change, and because you still have a bit of love for him, you might feel like giving him another chance? Are you angry he waited so long, and made you suffer to the point you finally were going to put yourself first before he finally took you seriously?

If you want to give him another chance, set a time limit for it, and conditions. Don't tell him what your time limit or conditions are, because if he is not really changing, he will just keep up the show until the time limit runs out. A time limit, and REAL and permanent changes will keep you from being stuck in limbo with him indefinitely in the case that he is just pretending because he is afraid of losing his slave and whipping dog.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Opp's sorry got you confused.

Added: Only about the PTSD.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

REVISED: 

Bluuespower, alte Dame, and Marduk says alot of things very well. I stand behind what l have said.

Now you must know, He has no reason to be CRUEL or MEAN. You have a right not to live a life as this, and now he wants to change. And all you have said says he is just truly Cruel and abusive. 

As much as I wish that most marriages to be saved some are not worthy of saving. My concern for you is that he truly may hurt you. Take advantage of this time. Maybe to leave safely!

I do not know what is in your heart, only you do. Do l think it would be best to leave, only you know. But it is best to get it all out here in the open this way you will have covered all options. Then you can make your choice. ( And live with yourself)

Lastly just because some here have alot of post, doesn't necessarily give them the all knowing ability even if they think so. Everyone has an opinion and yes you have to have thick skin to see all thoughts posted.

Lastly do l think you should leave, l don't know but l advised you with my experiences in my life only to possibly guide you in yours


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

I'm curious as to what these outrageous accusations are that you speak of OP?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

StarFires said:


> And so how many times has she stood in the door with her bags packed?
> 
> I always feel like most guys don't know how to be a husband or what it means to have a wife. They turn their wife into the enemy. So, it's very often she ends up the Walkaway Wife, and he ends up shocked and desperate and making promises to change. Marriages like these are fixable if the wife is not done, has the patience to work on it, and is willing to give him another chance. The only problem is most people makeup and say they will try again. Most men say they will work on themselves and change. But nothing specific gets addressed, and they don't learn how to work on things to prevent making the same mistakes. So the same problems repeat themselves.
> 
> Nevertheless, DP's problem is different. This isn't the normal kind of marital problems that you refer to. It's not a matter of he just doesn't listen. Hers is a matter of abuse, and that kind of problem doesn't change......ever. it only escalates. Hoping for change and trying over and over again only gives him more opportunity to abuse. Statistics show the evidence. In fact, if she doesn't leave, the more chances she gives him, the more in danger she will be when she does try to leave.


I don't agree with your interpretation.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Divine_Peace said:


> But, is it possible that the "shock factor" could make him see how he's been treating me and want to change for the better?


Yes, it is. He is your husband, you both owe it to each other to give the marriage one last chance. 

Cut off contact with the OM, your feelings are clouding your judgement. Like it or not, you're married and this is disrespectful to your husband.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Some people are shocked into realizing they either change or they lose their spouse. Some actually care enough to get honest with themselves so they can acknowledge their failings and change them.

Your husband may be genuine. Only time will tell.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Lots of posters here and they all tend to see things through the lens of their own experience. You will likely get a lot of opinions, but keep in mind that none of the posters know nearly as much about the situation as you do. Its useful input but you have to decide what you want to do




Divine_Peace said:


> [
> snip
> However, I find it very interesting that most of you all have the same "final answer" even though your reasons are different..... divorce.
> 
> So, here's my question to you all... as a new member, Is this a Forum to help save marriages or a Forum to give up and walk away? Some of you that have been around awhile.... is most of the advice here divorce or work it out? Just curious......


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Divine_Peace said:


> @manwithnoname, @Daisy12, @She'sStillGotIt, @[email protected], @aine, @Tilted 1, @Adelais, @StarFires, @Openminded, @uhtred, @3Xnocharm, @RebuildingMe, @Lila, @Onarollercoaster, @Prodigal, @SunCMars, @Marduk
> 
> 
> WOW!!! First of all, Thank you all for the feedback. I'd like to start today by answering a few questions and possibly clearing up some miscommunication.
> ...



Your H is the problem here, he is abusive, nothing more nothing less, yet you are still on the roller coaster trying to figure out how you can do better, be there done that, in the long run, he will not change, therefore depending on what suits, stay but live your life for you, not him or divorce, it is simple. You can only change you. You sound trauma bonded to his man, read about trauma bonding, it is not love but gives the same high.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Divine_Peace said:


> So, here's my question to you all... as a new member, Is this a Forum to help save marriages or a Forum to give up and walk away? Some of you that have been around awhile.... is most of the advice here divorce or work it out? Just curious......


 For the record, I didn't even mention your male friend or claim you're 'in love' with him or that you want to leave for him. I never even mentioned the guy in my prior post because quite honestly, I just see him as a symptom of your unhappiness. I think you've just attributed feelings to this guy because you're so beat down by your husband and need to feel desired by someone. I get it. But I think it's temporary and fleeting.

There _*are*_ websites that will convince you to save your marriage no matter _*what*_ (especially faith-based websites). They'll persuade you into staying with your abuser and claim that therapy will fix what ails him (that's a crapshoot - at _best_) and that all you need to do is get him to fix himself and you'll be back on track to wedded bliss again. What most of these marriage cheerleaders can't seem to comprehend is that YEARS of continued emotional and verbal abuse will kill someone's love for that person no matter how much they 'change' at the 11th hour. I still believe that once a woman is truly done, she's *done*.

Just because most of us in this thread would never stand for this type of treatment and recommend that you divorce your abusive husband doesn't mean we don't support saving a marriage. We support saving marriages that have the capacity to be *healthy*. Yours does not. It appears the damage is too great and has gone on for far too long, but that's just my opinion, of course.

He's "changed" - for now. Like I said, it's *temporary*. You'll see.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

WTF. 
Really...WTF. 

OP never said she was in love with another man. She has feelings for someone she met through a club WITH her husband.

She is already, and has been, addressing marital issues with her husband.

She's doing everything right. She can't help she has feelings for a man she knows. She's not acting on it, nor does she know the man in an inappropriate way.



RebuildingMe said:


> Wow, women of TAM suddenly forgiving of inappropriate extramarital affairs? When did that happen? It’s all on the husband?? What am I missing?
> 
> OP loves another man. How can she love her husband also? Yes, I believe she should ditch, but to blame the husband is flat out wrong. Before she ditches, she should tell her husband that she couldn’t put 100% into the marriage because she had another man on her mind and in her thoughts.


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