# Marriage and Borderline Personality Disorder



## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

Hi everyone, I'm new here and desperately seeking advice. This will probably be long, and I apologize for that, but I invite any advice and knowledge anyone is willing to give!! 
My husband and I have been married almost 7 years. From the beginning there were problems, but I've talked myself into staying again and again. I highly suspect he has Borderline Personality Disorder. Although I am not at all qualified to make this diagnosis on my own, I am currently 1 year away from obtaining my BA in Psychology, and I'm starting to get scared about what I've learned about this disorder. He see's everything as either black or white.... One minute he is absolutely in love with me, and a second later I will say something to set him off and he instantly hates me. Even though he loves and claims he trusts me, when he gets mad or defensive, he believes I am out to get him (I have never given him reason to believe this!) He is capable of being the most loving man, absolutely devoted to me and our 5 year old, but on the turn of a dime can say the most cruel and hurtful words. He loves his animals more than any man could love them, but when he's angry with me or anyone else, he beats the dog. Yesterday, he tried getting me to agree with him that it's ok to kick a dog when it does something wrong.
He gets so angry at anything that threatens his peace of mind. Any touchy subject: career, finances, children, the house, our marriage.... conversations about these always end in disaster! It takes hours for him to calm down, and days before he is willing and able to talk about an issue peacefully. He jumps quickly to false conclusions (most of the time because I phrase something poorly) and won't back down from his assumptions until days later.
I have continued this marriage for this long because for many years I believed I was the reason he became so angry. I believed if I changed myself, he would get better. It wasn't until close friends saw him for themselves that I realized that placing the blame on me is part of his disease. Now... I don't know what to do. Without a degree, I can't get a job. This means I can't support myself or my child if I decide to leave.
He refuses to seek counseling, believing that his anger is normal. How do I learn to live with, and trust, this man whom I am convinced will never change? What can I do to keep from setting him off while at the same time keeping my own sanity? Please, any advice is better than nothing. Thanks you all so much for any help you can provide!!


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

While some things do strike me as BPD traits, I'm not sure if it could truly be BPD. 
Was your relationship volatile in the beginning? My understanding of BPD is that he would start out as seeming like a great catch. 
I can't make a diagnosis either but, I do have BPD myself. There is a poster named Uptown who was married 15yrs to a BPD wife. He has a wealth of insight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

One of the reasons I married him was because he was so sweet and loving to me. He is a very honorable man, is unbelievably smart, and it was easy to find reasons to look up to him. That changed just a few months into the marriage. Before we married, I only noticed him drink occasionally. It wasn't until afterward that I found out he has a serious drinking problem. I have never seen him go more than a few days without a drink, and if it was longer than that it was only because he was forced (several tours in Iraq). What really scares me is that he gets by at work acting like this because he's able to convince everyone he's a great guy that would bend over backward for anyone. He often compares our marriage to his work relationships.... wondering why he can't have the same with me as he does with his co-workers. 
Thanks for your input Pidge!!


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## artycupid (Jan 19, 2011)

have you considered that it could be HFA or aspergers?

You say several things that make me think this instead of BPD ---which is commonly misdiagnosed for HFA sufferers

1st you say he jumps to wrong conclusions a lot---very common with ppl with HFA who dont fully understand the social world or communication

2nd--he loves his animals dearly then beats them. He could be harming them bc of "meltdowns" which make him lose all control. People with HFA are VERY close to animals, almost more than humans. 

3rd--black and white thinking is a very common trait/symptom with HFA as well as BPD. The intention is different. People with HFA have a hard time understanding concepts and therefore see the world concretely, it just helps them understand it better

4th--he loves u one minute then snaps another--very common with HFA too because he couldbe under a LOT of stress you dont fully realize and then what seems to be "random" act or outburst to you is him finally blowing his lid.


Keep in mind it is VERY destructive to pre-diagnose someone with such a serious mental condition like BPD--even if you diagnose him in your head---bc you are making harsh judgements about his character--you are deciding he is a manipulator and bad at heart----you are putting these one him--not him. He is only doing his actions and the way you perceive them could really wreck your relationship. Try to be understanding before you go off judging him. 

FYI, My sister was misdiagnosed with BPD for several years and began to hate herself so much she tried to kill herself several times because she said she couldnt get better no matter how hard she tried and thought everyone hated her and felt better off dead than being alive as a bad person. Turns out she was HFA. She is still working to rebuild her wrecked self-esteem from years of being told she was a manipulator. She wasnt, i was the only one who saw her fragile kind hearted side and erratic behavior that was constantly mis-interpreted by others.


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## artycupid (Jan 19, 2011)

also you seem convinced he will never change. if he does indeed have HFA, you must accept it WILL NEVER change. he will always be him, but you can work with him to help him communicate his feelings to you better. and youd be amazed how much that will change the relationship. 

You may not even realize it but right now you two could be communicating in entirely different languages and its killing your relationship. 

He probably needs comfort and care and PATIENCE---not judgement no matter what illness he may or may not have.


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## artycupid (Jan 19, 2011)

"unbelievably smart," people with HFA/aspergers are often very very gifted and kind hearted. 

they also do suffer from drinking problems sometimes to help cope with all the stess and anxiety autism brings on. 

Its sounding more and more like hfa to me but you know him, i dont. please consider it or any other options before such a destructive one like bpd or any other personality illness.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

I try very hard not to be judgmental. Like I said, for many, many years I fully believed I was the problem. Honestly, I still feel I'm a lot of the problem. I have tried for years to find new ways to communicate with him, and to help him communicate with me... but it always leads to anger, resentment, and hostility. For more than 7 years I have tried to be patient, to the cost of my own sanity! I have put myself through counseling, tried homeopathic remedies, attended marriage workshops... you name it. Nothing works. When I say "he may never change" its because I'm at the point where I honestly believe he cannot or is completely unwilling to. How far do I have to overextend myself (and my child) before I end up on anti-depressants or in the loony bin!? I mention BPD as a possiblity and nothing more, and I probably should have made that clear in my original post. I apologize for that. But... after the things I have witnessed, there is no doubt in my mind that he suffers from mental illness... if at the very least, depression. My situation is now... how do I live with mental illness knowing that he refuses help and that he views my attempts to help him as hostile?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

BPD is only destructive if the person does not seek help and try to rectify it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## artycupid (Jan 19, 2011)

assuming someone is bpd without a formal and complete diagnosis is destructive, esp if they arent---it can totally destroy their sense of self. 

Also OP i can already sense your hostility through the forum and i am a stranger, so i can def see why your husband would sense hostility. 

So since you cant change him as you've said, id work on yourself, you seem to have a lot of resentment and anger from the years with him, so seeing someone on your own to move past the anger sounds like the best move here.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

There is a lot of hostility. And, I'm sensing from your replies arty that you believe my hostility isn't warranted. I came to this forum to look for answers, not judgments. You defend my husband by saying that my "diagnosis" is destroying his sense of self. What about mine? How long should I stand by while he calls me "disgusting, a piece of s*&t, and c^%t? How long should I allow my child to listen to her father call me those hurtfull words? How long should I allow her to watch him beat the dog? How long until he does the same to her?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I know you are upset but, don't let one poster's callousness get to you. I know, easier said than done. 
Please, concentrate on you and your daughter. You can't change anyone else. Change has to come from within. 
Take care and if you need to talk/vent whatever, feel free to do it on here or pm me if you want. 
Best wishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

Thank you pidge. I truly needed to hear (read) that. Thank you for being understanding. I'm not trying to be judgmental, and it's hard not to sound that way through words without body language. Thank you. Thank you.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

You are very welcome. (((HUGS)))
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## milom (Apr 25, 2010)

As a person that has been in this situation for nearly 39 years, I truly feel for you. If he is unwilling to seek or accept professional help either individually or as a couple, I would suggest that you may want to look into help for yourself and possibly your daughter. Don't think for a minuet that these relationships don't effect the kids.


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## artycupid (Jan 19, 2011)

am I missing something but that is exactly what I said, get help for yourself you cannot change people.

Also I even said YOU know your husband and I dont. But that doesnt make you a psychiatrist and looking under a scope of bpd at his actions doesnt exactly save your marriage. 

You came on here asking for advice under the lens that you wanted to help your husband, i was replying to that question--about helping him and his diagnosis or lack there of. 

If you really wanted to get feedback about yourself and your hurt feelings by him, then if I I wouldve definitely replied to that aspect--and given what you are looking for ---which seems to be consoled and reaffirmed that he is the problem or something. 

all I know is what you tell me, i offered my advice, if you dont care to hear it, then thats definitely your choice I was only trying to help.


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## LucyLate (Aug 2, 2011)

Sorry, I don;t know what HFA is? But I'd love to learn more as my husband acts the same way.
I've always said that it's a question of trust. He doesn't trust that I'm on his side even when I get things wrong and it sounds like you're in the same situation.

A difference though is that we have been to marriage counselling, but he still doesn't see that he has a problem. He acknowledges that he shuts down and is cold but he still does it all the time and has a problem with it but maintains that it's my fault.

My story is at Life & Love, so far and I hope things get better for you soon!


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## grizabella (May 8, 2011)

You really should get help for yourself and your child. A counselor can help you with a probable diagnosis of your husband and help you to understand and cope with it. 

There is truly nothing you can do to change him, but even without a diagnosis, you are in an abusive relationship and you need to protect yourself and the kid. It is my concerted belief that if someone will hurt an animal out of anger they will eventually turn physical on the people near them. And I can't believe what your poor dog is going through if the one he has bonded to kicks him. That ought to tell you something about your chances in this marriage.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

jessicx said:


> There is a lot of hostility. And, I'm sensing from your replies arty that you believe my hostility isn't warranted. I came to this forum to look for answers, not judgments. You defend my husband by saying that my "diagnosis" is destroying his sense of self. What about mine? How long should I stand by while he calls me "disgusting, a piece of s*&t, and c^%t? How long should I allow my child to listen to her father call me those hurtfull words? How long should I allow her to watch him beat the dog? How long until he does the same to her?


Jessicx, from my experience you cannot change the person you are living with in anyway whatsoever. If THEY have DECIDED TO CHANGE then for sure you can encourage and help them along their way. This “decision to change” is theirs and theirs alone. While he “has” you he is exceedingly unlikely to be motivated to change.

The very best thing you can do is to put healthy personal boundaries around yourself (and your child) to protect you from your H’s abuse (the names he calls you is very abusive). So I suggest you buy some books on personal boundaries and have a look into codependency, you have some of the signs of being a codependent.

In the above you have already shown you can “assert yourself” in an adult and mature way. Well done. You just need to learn to do that with your H when you have decided what you will no longer tolerate from him with your personal boundaries. These things takes a while. When you start asserting your boundaries you will look like a “new and changed woman” to your H and it will take a while for him to get used to the new you. Just keep quietly asserting your boundaries and he will gradually get the idea and then he may well look to change himself.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

artycupid said:


> have you considered that it could be hfa or aspergers?
> 
> You say several things that make me think this instead of bpd ---which is commonly misdiagnosed for hfa sufferers
> 
> ...


hfa = ????


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

Your words AFEH, carry an unbelievable amount of truth. I do agree that I have codependency issues and that it has helped foster his behavior. I also agree wholeheartedly with everyone that he will only change when he see's the need to, and that I cannot force him. Having realized this 4 years ago, I sought individual counseling for myself, but was met with a psychologist who was too busy with his own personal life to be concerned with mine. That's fine... I began meditating, doing Yoga, and joining local women's groups so that I could learn to release the pain and be a better person for Him. I can now say that I am nowhere near the woman I used to be, and for that I am Thankful. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't respond well to assertiveness. In fact, he views it as an attack and immediately puts up his defenses. He has a way of breaking down anyone who tries to be stronger than himself, including my friends and some of his co workers.
I guess my largest problem right now is that I feel I've exhausted all of my options. There are times when he hits rock bottom and finally agree's that something needs to change. He will wholeheartedly work on his anger, but he always goes back to his old ways... always.
Lucy, HFA is "High functiong Autism". I too don't know enough about HFA or Aspergers to tell you enough about them, other than I don't believe for the life of me that this man could possibly have managed to make it 20 years in the military without a single red flag to his superiors if he had HFA/Aspergers.
Thank you all for your advice. I do plan to seek individual counseling for myself again. Maybe this time it will work?


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

Dadof3 said:


> hfa = ????


high functioning autism? 

that's all I could find of it.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

jessicx said:


> Your words AFEH, carry an unbelievable amount of truth. I do agree that I have codependency issues and that it has helped foster his behavior. I also agree wholeheartedly with everyone that he will only change when he see's the need to, and that I cannot force him. Having realized this 4 years ago, I sought individual counseling for myself, but was met with a psychologist who was too busy with his own personal life to be concerned with mine. That's fine... I began meditating, doing Yoga, and joining local women's groups so that I could learn to release the pain and be a better person for Him. I can now say that I am nowhere near the woman I used to be, and for that I am Thankful. Unfortunately, my husband doesn't respond well to assertiveness. In fact, he views it as an attack and immediately puts up his defenses. He has a way of breaking down anyone who tries to be stronger than himself, including my friends and some of his co workers.
> I guess my largest problem right now is that I feel I've exhausted all of my options. There are times when he hits rock bottom and finally agree's that something needs to change. He will wholeheartedly work on his anger, but he always goes back to his old ways... always.
> Lucy, HFA is "High functiong Autism". I too don't know enough about HFA or Aspergers to tell you enough about them, other than I don't believe for the life of me that this man could possibly have managed to make it 20 years in the military without a single red flag to his superiors if he had HFA/Aspergers.
> Thank you all for your advice. I do plan to seek individual counseling for myself again. Maybe this time it will work?


I finally put up my personal boundaries, my non negotiable intolerances. My wife just trashed them, crashed right through them. It was then I knew she’d never ever change and it was the end for us no matter how much in love with her I was.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

AFEH said:


> I finally put up my personal boundaries, my non negotiable intolerances. My wife just trashed them, crashed right through them. It was then I knew she’d never ever change and it was the end for us no matter how much in love with her I was.


As hard as it is to admit or believe, I'm finding myself having to make the same decision.


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## lizybitz (Sep 6, 2011)

Oh Jessicx - 
I am in the exact same spot - or so it seems - 
I've been married 9.5 yrs, we have 3 kids... I've been wondering for most of our marriage whether my husband might have aspergers or whether he was just a jerk. I had never even heard of BPD until a few weeks ago...
I found out Memorial Day weekend that he has a porn problem - a big deal for me as it goes against all the values I thought we shared. I used this to FINALLY get him into couples therapy, although to be honest, the porn isn't what I wanted help with - it's more the fact that I've been scared for our entire marriage. 
I now know that it's an abusive relationship. My therapist has a list of about 100 behaviors he thinks are pretty typical of people with BPD. My husband has all but 9 of them. (you can look at the list online, by the way, here's the link: Helpful Information from Dr. Kent Griffiths on Character Disorder
Anyway, my therapist also recommended a book called "Stop Walking on Eggshells" which is AMAZING.
I read this book (in secret obviously - I hide it between my mattress and box spring) and wondered who had put a nanny cam in my house - it seriously feels like someone recorded our ridiculous arguments (about things that never happened!) and wrote a book about it - it's like my husband is following a script for this disorder.
Anyway, whether it's BPD or not, this book is VERY helpful in putting things in perspective.
There's also an online community - yahoo group called Welcome to Oz - you can get there from bpdcentral.com and look around.
This is all new to me, I'm no expert, but I want you to know that YOU ARE NOT CRAZY. I've been feeling like I was going insane for the past several years, wondering if maybe the things he was saying about me are true. Ridiculous, I know, but there it is. 
I am continuing therapy alone now (my husband opted out after 2 appts, when he started to wonder why the therapist only ever 'picked on' him, and wouldn't try to 'fix' me and all my problems at all. Hmmm..... Just trying to be patient and learn and not rush into any decisions right now.
Good luck coming back to reality.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

OMG, Thank you so much Lizy. I've been doing the same things, reading books and hiding them in the nightstand, wondering to myself if this was all my fault. I had a conversation with a really good friend last week where I admitted that I might be developing an OCD. When these bad arguments happen, I just can't seem to put the conversation out of my head. I sit for hours wondering what I did wrong, what can I do to fix it, what could I have said that would have made it better, is it all really my fault! I realized after reading an article on "the gaslight effect" that this is the exact inner monologue of a person who is in a gaslighting relationship. My husband has found a way to blame me for every one of his shortcomings (even kicking the dog!!) and I truly felt as if it was all my fault! Thank you for your references and your advice. It's conversations with helpful people here and good friends that help me find my place in reality. Thank You!


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## TwoDogs (Jul 29, 2011)

Just a thought, since you mentioned concerns about his drinking. All of those traits like rigid thinking, mood swings, excessive rage, blame shifting and paranoid accusations can also be attributed to alcoholics. As well as to "dry drunks", which describes alcoholics who are not actively drinking but who are not working a recovery program and so retain the personality characteristics.

Bottom line, however, is that he won't change unless he wants to.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

There are actually a number of diagnoses in which he may possibly fall under. A career soldier for more than 20 years and several overseas war tours make him a very likely candidate for PTSD. His refusal to seek counseling stems partly from the stigma that mentally ill soldiers are weak and useless. Now that he's close to retirement, he's less worried about falling under that stigma and has actually made the decision not to lie about his drinking and mental health during his yearly medical report this time. For this reason alone I want to stay, for him, because it's his real first step toward recovery. At this point, the question is how serious he is about taking that step. Thanks Twodogs!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What I would do is tell him that you are not happy (and ignore all the insults that follow this statement - they are his attempt to control you back into the acquiescent pet you used to be), and that you cannot stay married if he doesn't start attending psychological sessions. 

It really is that simple. He either does something to give you a reason to stay, or you don't stay. You aren't helping him by going along with it; all you do is reinforce his bad behavior and the bolder he gets with you, the more it will spill over into his workplace, and he will end up getting fired. Then you'll really be stuck. Help HIM by giving him this choice.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

Unfortuntely, he knows it would be an empty threat Turnera. I don't have the means right now to support myself and my 5 year old if I leave. Believe me, there have been times where it got so out of control I did just that very thing. I stood my ground, told him if he didn't get help I was leaving. I packed my stuff and rented a hotel room for a week, all the while looking into my options for starting a new life. When he finally cooled down and realized his mistake, we sat down and talked and he asked me to come back. He told me he would go to counseling, and I agreed to do the same. That was in January. Still no counseling, no chaplain, he won't even read the books I recommend. He has told me that my actions that week scared him into seeking a counselor, but since things were getting better he didn't think he needed to anymore. It's one of a million in a long list of learning experiences that he just doesn't seem to learn from. Eventually, he always goes back to his old ways. Coincidentally, Turnera, he has been in a position for many years for promotion, but even though he has hit every technical qualification needed, they still won't promote him. I think in his heart he truly knows why and I know it kills him inside, but even that doesn't give him reason to change. BUT.... in light of this weekend's business with the dog, I AM going to stand my ground and insist on therapy. I ordered the book that Lizy recommended, and I might try talking with my professor, who might be able to teach me a thing or two about how to talk to my husband without putting him on the immediate defensive. Thank you everyone for your advice, it helps more than you could ever know!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you in America? If so, you have at least a good 50 different agencies available to you to help you get started on your own. You just have to make the effort.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

I guess the issue really is would leaving him really help? He has shown me in the past that he doesn't learn well from his mistakes, because he finds a way to blame others for them. Leaving him might actually cause his problems to get worse, and with a child involved, that scares the hell out of me. At least while I'm with him, I can monitor his interactions with our daughter, but if I leave, she's all alone. Honestly, what I really think I need at this point is to find a way to talk to him. I know that I can't, and probably shouldn't, leave right now. So... I'll continue to work on myself and hopefully these next steps will bring us closer to an answer. Thanks again.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why would she be all alone? You wouldn't leave without her, would you?


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

I don't have the money to take him to court for supervised visitation. Since he refuses counseling, there will never be a formal diagnosis unless he's forced, as such it's his word against mine to a divorce lawyer. Now there is not a chance in hell that I would let him have her, and if a fight ensued, I'd do everything in my power to keep that from happening. But since we could really only afford a regular divorce, I doubt there is any way I could keep him from getting her on weekends or holidays.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How old is she?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you checked into all the organizations that help people in your situation?


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## smarti36 (Aug 9, 2011)

WOW JESS!!!

I swear my situation is the exact same as yours. The differences are our son is 3yrs old and he blew up on Tuesday night and left. Now, he has ran to his mothers house many times. I do feel bad for him because I feel that there is no other woman would put up with him. So, our son would have to endure countless women in and out of his life. 

I too have changed every way I know how to communicate with him. Nothing works and he blows a lid. About a month ago, he was really angry at me all in my face with a look of rage. He grabs my arms and says horrible things. I usually just try and defuse the situation so it does not get worse. I have 9yr old twin boys from a previous marriage that have to see this. I lost my cool and punched him. Now, that gave him the green light to grab my neck put me on the wall and try to choke me to dealth. Our 3yr old was watching he was crying so he then stopped choking me and threw me against the foot board of the bed. I was bruised pretty badly. From my shoulder to my thumb was pretty much one big bruise. 

Now, fast forward 4 weeks to day before yesterday. He again was all enraged and in my face yelling like he was going to hit me. I said what are you going to do hit me? His reply was "if you hit me first but I bet you learned your lesson after last time". I am 5'2 and 115 lbs. I am no match for him. I'm sure when I punched him he didnt even feel it. 

I also feel I am codependent and have a therapy appointment tomorrow. I hope I can stay strong enough to not let him back. Good luck. I know exactally what your going through. It is a nighmare. If you need to vent please let me know. Again, I completly understand your situation.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The thing is, if you leave him, you TEACH your daughter what is right and what is wrong. If you STAY, you teach her to be an abuse victim. 

That's it.

You are practically GUARANTEEING that she will grow up to pick a man just like her father, and be in the exact same place as you in 20 years. 

If you are really making decisions for the welfare of HER, and not YOU, you will leave. You will take pictures of her before she goes to see him and pictures when she gets back, and any bruises you see will be reported to Children's Protective Services the same day, and you will create a RECORD of any abuse, so that he will LOSE any rights to see her unsupervised. 

She will SEE you fighting for her rights and safety and she will feel loved. 

If you stay, and she sees YOU getting abused, she will feel UNLOVED and IGNORED because you apparently pick your own needs (unhealthy as they are) ahead of hers. And she will hate you for it.

Educate yourself on what goes on in houses like yours.


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## jessicx (Sep 5, 2011)

You are absolutely right Turnera. There isn't a day goes by that those exact thoughts don't race through my miind. Having grown up in an unstable home myself, I know exactly what will happen should I choose to stay. I have no doubt that eventually I will leave, especially if he chooses once again to ignore my demands. I also remember the hell my sister and I went through when my father left us with his unstable wife. He was in the exact same position I am in, and I don't want to make the same mistake with my daughter. I am trying to go about this as rationally as I possibly can. I haven't set my needs before those of my daughter, although I can see where it looks as though I have. I truly understand where you're coming from Turnera, but knowing my husband he can be down right nasty when he's angry. I have to look at it from every perspective, and for now that means trying to get him into therapy. I can promise you this much right now.... if he refuses again, I'm walking. I'm not taking NO for an answer, and I'm not staying in this abusive relationship. I'm putting the ball in his court, and I'll live with my grandmother if I have to.
Smart, I truly feel for you. I read things like that and they just make me sick, because I can't understand how a human being can treat another like that. I think you and I could provide a tremendous amount of support for each other. Good luck at your appointment, and I hope you find strength in your person.


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## lizybitz (Sep 6, 2011)

Oh, Ladies.
What a sad world we live in.
My husband has never physically battered me, but there have been times when I wished he would so that I could KNOW that I should leave. Verbal abuse is so much harder to pinpoint and describe, and it makes me feel like I'm just going crazy...
We've been talking divorce all week.
My husband is not interested in separating and working on ourselves, then reassessing in a month, three months, etc, which is my first choice. He has committed to finding a therapist of his own, since he doesn't trust 'mine' - he's our couples therapist, and he desperately wants us divorced. Ironic, huh? Of course my husband just thinks the therapist wants to split us up with no good reason - I think he just sees that between the pattern of verbal abuse and the borderline personality disorder, the possibility of my husband changing is not very good.
I do have three kids though (7, 5 and 2) and I'm torn between feeling that I owe them a happy mother and an emotionally safe home, and feeling like now that everything is out in the open with my husband (he found a book by Patricia Evans called "The Verbally Abusive Man: Can He Change? A Woman's Guide to Whether to Stay or Go". (By the way, Jessicx - this book is amazing. Another recommendation from my therapist. The borderline thing is kind of irrelevant when you see yourself very clearly as a victim of abuse - and we both are.) You can imagine how well that went over with him... 
But at least he knows how I feel - I think the term 'abuse' is hard for him to digest since he is sooo much less obviously abusive than his dad was to him. (My husband was abused physically and emotionally as a child by both parents). 
Now that it's all out in the open I figure it will be pretty obvious whether he has a fire under him to change or not. He's committed to come with me to our current therapist until he finds one he trusts more. 
We shall see...


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## lizybitz (Sep 6, 2011)

Smart - that sounded really insensitive of me - to say that emotional abuse is worse in any way is totally unfair since I've never been physically abused. I did not mean to minimize what you are going through at all. I agree with Jessicx - it makes me sick to think of anyone being treated that way, and by someone who is supposed to love you. What a betrayal.


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## jc2006 (Aug 17, 2011)

lizybitz said:


> Oh, Ladies.
> What a sad world we live in.
> My husband has never physically battered me, but there have been times when I wished he would so that I could KNOW that I should leave. Verbal abuse is so much harder to pinpoint and describe, and it makes me feel like I'm just going crazy...
> ...


OMG...I could have written a lot of these posts word for word...I have been saying for a long time "if he ever lays a hand on me I will leave so fast with our girls his head will spin..." sometimes I wish he would so that I could follow through with it...it scares me to leave though, cause just like you Jess I would rather be monitoring his actions with our girls than wondering how they are being treated during their visits with their Dad...I really feel as though I cant give them the life they deserve no matter what choice I make though...


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## jc2006 (Aug 17, 2011)

turnera said:


> The thing is, if you leave him, you TEACH your daughter what is right and what is wrong. If you STAY, you teach her to be an abuse victim.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> ...


This may be a good way of documenting physical abuse but there is no way to document the possibility of verbal abuse


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

True. But you CAN change that dynamic in your children. You can teach them what healthy boundaries are - even with your parents - and you can teach them what is wrong and what is right and how to report it to you or someone else when they are put in bad situations.


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## grizabella (May 8, 2011)

Listen Ladies, these men will KILL you one day!!! They probably will feel some pain and confusion at first, then blame you for it..."you provoked him" or "he got so angry he blacked out". These men CAN'T change because they have an ILLNESS. You wouldn't expect them to cure themselves of cancer would you?  Please, please do your caring for them from the outside. There are places, shelters where you can go and get help. And lack of money should never keep a woman in an abusive relationship. There is help for you but you must seek it. The days of protecting his image is over because it has become too dangerou. You can't help your kids if you're dead.


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