# How things are getting better



## joshbjoshb (Jul 11, 2011)

So many people come here to vent. I do that all the time. It really helps - when someone responds you feel good. But not many of us come to update when things are getting better, right?

So I would like to buck the trend 

I have written here in the past. A nice guy, always wants to please his wife, forgoes many things he likes just to make her feel happy, and for some strange reason she is still not happy. In fact, she is always criticizes him which makes him feel so bad.

One rainy day (maybe it was actually sunny, can't remember) I found this blog. Started reading, and the "nice guy" jumped right at me. What is wrong with being a nice guy? It was my pride to be the nice, always pleasing person that I was.

Read the post, downloaded the book, what an eye opener!

I am on this forum for few months now, but just realized that the change has actually become part of me. I used to fake it - pretend as if her tantrums don't effect me, and every wrong look I got would make me feel horrible - but not anymore.

In general, I am so much happier and relaxed. If my wife is not talking nicely, I am not going crazy anymore. Not getting so angry. Looking back at her, either making fun of what she is saying or just reminding her that this is not the way we talk. I am no longer afraid to tell her the hard truth about different things, even if she won't like it.

I didn't become a bad guy. I did become someone who is not constantly looking to his wife to get approval. I still tell her how much her words and compliments mean much more than anyone's else, but her not nice words are not going to kill me. I have no problem being very open about how I feel, telling her when she hurts me.

Thank you everyone here who have helped. This is just the beginning, but I am sure it will lead for a happier marriage for me for many more years to come.


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

joshbjoshb said:


> So many people come here to vent. I do that all the time. It really helps - when someone responds you feel good. But not many of us come to update when things are getting better, right?
> 
> So I would like to buck the trend
> 
> ...


You know what confuses me about the whole "nice guy" thing?

Like you said, what's wrong with it? You put your wife first. You put your kids first. What's wrong with that? Isn't that what you should do? Isn't that what most major religions teach is unselfishness? Isn't that what everyone who tells you anything about marriage says about it? You have to sacrifice a part of yourself for the woman you love. You can't do the things you used to.

So, is it not in the unselfishness? Is it maybe in the not standing up for yourself part? That's not being nice. That's being a doormat. Right? There's a difference and shouldn't be confused with being nice and/or unselfish. 

To me, the problem is when the wife or significant other doesn't reciprocate. Imagine how good life would be if both sides were unselfish. But for every giver, there's a taker. And that person takes and takes and takes. They become a leach. You give them your life, your blood, and your sweat, and they resent you for it. Maybe as a nice guy we should tell them they're leaches and they need to fix it. 

I don't know, dude. I know there's a ton of literature out there on this, but the problem seems to me to be on their end. Not on the "nice guy's". The only thing a nice guy is guilty of is being a doormat. Other than that, they're doing it right, and as it should be done.

Or maybe I have it wrong. Or maybe I have the wrong forum and should go to the stickied "nice guy" section?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

The problem with the "niceguy" thing is that the "niceguy" is giving to get. And, often sex is what he's hoping to "get"

Of course, when someone isn't genuine, it shows.

This often tempts his wife to take advantage of the "niceness" - no matter how phony - and she loses respect for him as she steamrolls him out of the relationship.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Crazy8 said:


> You know what confuses me about the whole "nice guy" thing?
> 
> the problem seems to me to be on their end. Not on the "nice guy's". The only thing a nice guy is guilty of is being a doormat. Other than that, they're doing it right, and as it should be done.


Nothing wrong with being nice if that's what you want to do. Problems start when one is compulsively nice. Problems continue when one see themselves as being "really nice" when they are in fact just regular guys who are nice sometimes and sometimes not. Yet more problems when one expects special rewards for all the niceness from someone who is really not all that impressed by it.

Giving, serving and unselfishness does not extend to letting someone hurt you and not doing anything about it. When being nice prevents one from protecting themselves, the hurt they suffer can sometimes find itself expressed in inappropriate ways. This can actually pull their "observed nice quotient" (as opposed to the assumed nice quotient) even more into the negative.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Conrad said:


> The problem with the "niceguy" thing is that the "niceguy" is giving to get. And, often sex is what he's hoping to "get"


I thought faking being nice was the number one way to get what you want and "nice guys" were too nice to fake it since dishonesty is never nice?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I thought faking being nice was the number one way to get what you want and "nice guys" were too nice to fake it since dishonesty is never nice?


Unless they're delusional.

And, most of us were.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

gotcha


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I thought faking being nice was the number one way to get what you want and "nice guys" were too nice to fake it since dishonesty is never nice?


Aren't most nice guys fundamentally dishonest though? :scratchhead:

Because of the whole ulterior motive, don't want to make waves thing?


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Crazy8 said:


> Aren't most nice guys fundamentally dishonest though? :scratchhead:
> 
> Because of the whole ulterior motive, don't want to make waves thing?


They are certainly dishonest in regards to themselves. If nice guys were really that nice they wouldn't have any problems getting what they want


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## Crazy8 (Jun 1, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> They are certainly dishonest in regards to themselves. If nice guys were really that nice they wouldn't have any problems getting what they want


LOL!

I wish we'd stop calling them "nice guys". We should call them confirmation dependant or something. They need women to confirm who they are and justify what they do. That's where the real problem is. Happiness hinges on that justification. That's not "hot", "sexy", or "attractive" to anyone let alone women.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I think being 100% Nice isn’t being authentic because it’s impossible. To be seen to be 100% nice, Nice Guys are holding their tongue and being essentially and fundamentally two faced. What they think inside of them is nothing like what they project on the outside.

Basically Nice Guys are deceitful and tell lies in order to maintain their 100% Nice persona. We all to some extent tell white lies in order to not hurt another’s feelings. But Nice Guys go way beyond that. 

As far as a person is concerned there’s an aspect of them called fidelity. It means an authentic external representation, reproduction of who they are inside. Nice Guys are so concerned with being Nice that they lose touch with who they are inside.

And being a Mr Nice Guy often doesn’t get them what they want anyway. So they lose while trying to be someone else, someone they’re not.

What a way to lose! I’d much rather lose while being myself than lose while trying to be someone else.

In essence Nice Guys are “living a lie”. They are not living in fidelity, in truthfulness to themselves.

If you’re going to fail, fail while being yourself, not while you’re trying to be someone else. And if your wife doesn’t love you “for who you are” then she’s not the woman you should be with.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

I was going to post a new thread on the NMMNG book but Josh, you more or less took the words out of my mouth, er post.  I downloaded the book yesterday and am almost finished with it, my God what an eye opening experience!

2 areas jumped out at me, the unspoken contracts where I would bend over backwards to do things for my wife but not get the expected results and also allowing and even asking her to do things I would never in a million years do for myself, i.e. quit her job, go to a spa for the day, etc. I kept having to put the book down for a minute and rub my eyes in disbelief that I have been doing all these things for SOOOO long.

It's going to be tough for me to break over a decade of this behavior but I'm determined to try, especially after reading about your success. THANK YOU for posting this! :smthumbup:


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

Crazy8 said:


> Maybe as a nice guy we should tell them they're leaches and they need to fix it.


You're correct with this and the book touches on it. We as "nice guys" hate conflict and don't want to make waves so we keep our mouths shut and suffer in silence. It's our own fault for not having the balls to speak up. If we had spoken up from day one, they wouldn't have been able to become leeches in the first place.



Crazy8 said:


> The only thing a nice guy is guilty of is being a doormat. Other than that, they're doing it right, and as it should be done.


There's a fine line between nice and doormat and I think I speak for a number of other "nice guys" when I say that line can easily get blurred over the years.

I will always enjoy doing "nice things" and being a "nice guy" toward my wife, assuming my marriage works out in the end. But one thing I will not do any longer is do said nice things with any expectations. It's too easy to say to one's self "If I come home from work early, get the kids fed and do all the dishes, she'll be in a good mood! If she's in a good mood, we'll go out and have fun! If we go out and have fun, she'll be in the mood for SEX when we come home!" etc. etc. ad nauseum. Yes we want sex, and no, we don't mind being nice to our wives, but sexual interest from a spouse isn't something that can be "bought" and this is where we're wrong in our thinking. Sex is the most obvious example but there are dozens of others in married life where we enter into these unwritten contracts that we mentally create without consulting the other party and getting their approval.

There's nothing at all wrong with being a "nice guy" in the true sense of the term. There is something wrong when you sacrifice all your wants and needs for someone else in hopes of getting love, attention or affection in return. You end up disappointed every time.


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