# Tables Have Turned - Need Advice!



## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Okay - the tables have turned and I need your help.

My husband told me last night that he thought we should call it quits and divorce. That he would rather live alone and miserable then with me and miserable - at least alone he would have peace and quiet.

He said that he is tired of me criticizing, telling him what's wrong with him, how he is failing me all the time, belittling him (his words) and that he just wants out.

He said he is tried of staying in silence and not responding when I start telling him what a sorry man/husband he is and he can't spend the next 20 years of his life like this.

He also went on to stay that 99% of our issues were the fact that I just couldn't keep my mouth shut and that I made arguments out of non-issues, if I would just shut up, there would be no issue.

I told him that I didn't spend 27 years of my life building a life with him just to see him walk away or us give up and that I wouldn't accept that and I would fight a divorce because I didn't want one.

I thought, with everything we have been going through that I would not have any real feelings if he wanted to leave. I WAS WRONG. I am not ready for this, I don't want a divorce, I love him, I don't want the last 27 years of my life to be for nothing and I want US to work. 

But now the shoe is on the other foot - he no longer has to worry about me leaving, he says HE IS DONE.

When I told him I wouldn't give up without a fight - he said, well if that's the way you feel - didn't really argue with me.

I believe what has happened here is that HE has decided to throw me for a loop and finally get out some of the feelings he has been bottling up.

I was up most of last night thinking about what he said and looking back on things.

And I came to the conclusion that he's right. In my effort to fix myself and fix us, I began letting him know exactly where he had failed me and exactly what was wrong with him and what his issues were, what he needed to work on, etc. While I thought I was helping (I honestly did), he viewed it as criticizing, belittling and how much of a failure he was as a man and husband.

And I don't think he's a failure - not in that sense of the word. I just feel some things needed to change as I was feeling unloved.

In my quest to "express" that I've apparently made things much, much worse. He has never said he wanted out and wanted a divorce before - ever.

I screwed up - I've handled this badly and am about to get what I actually DON'T WANT. He is not planning on moving out - so I have a chance to change this.

I need advice on how to turn this around and quickly. While I understand that it will take time for him to come around, I need to change how I deal with him/things NOW, TODAY.

What I've already done:

- I left him a short note when I went to work (he was still asleep) and it said:

"____, you're right and I'm sorry. You don't deserve that. I will fix it and quickly, there will be changes and they will be fast and in stone. I love you and don't want to lose you in my life."

The note was put under his contact case so I know he read it.

He did answer my phone call from work this morning - so that's a plus - I wasn't put on the hard freeze.

So I know I have to:

- Quit all criticizing.
- Stop all belittling.
- Quit pointing out what I think is wrong with him - it makes him feel like a failure and I don't even think he is.
- Start treating him like I did when we married. Back then I found no fault, had no harsh words, didn't point out where he failed me, etc.

I've already apologized and I'm ashamed that I actually made him feel worthless, unloved and a failure. All the things I was accusing him of making me feel.

What else can I do to show I'm serious about this change - I don't know whether to stay away from him this weekend and minimize contact or continue normal contact with a different attitude.

Help!


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

This man has abused you and is abusive. Sounds like just another way to make you feel like it's all your fault and for him not to have to change anything. He liked getting away with it, and obviously didn't ;like the spotlight being put on him. Much better for him to be able to treat you poorly, go on with his porn addiction, physically abuse you and have it be all your fault.

I am sorry but I have no idea what so ever why you would want to stay with him.:scratchhead:


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Syrum said:


> This man has abused you and is abusive. Sounds like just another way to make you feel like it's all your fault and for him not to have to change anything. He liked getting away with it, and obviously didn't ;like the spotlight being put on him. Much better for him to be able to treat you poorly, go on with his porn addiction, physically abuse you and have it be all your fault.
> 
> I am sorry but I have no idea what so ever why you would want to stay with him.:scratchhead:


I appreciate your input, but not constructive for what I was looking for.

The situation is not all B&W as some would like it to be.

He actually no longer has a porn addiction - he very rarely even looks at it anymore. The physical abuse was ONE TIME in 27 YEARS and due to medication/alcohol issues.

He still drinks, but not hard liquor anymore.

Things have changed. Sure they're not perfect but show me a relationship that is and I'll show you a liar or someone in denial.

My point being - I'm not innocent in this and it was well pointed out to me last night and when I sat down and looked at my own behavior - I can't say I did everything right and good either.

So I'm at fault also, just in different ways.

I'm not looking for whether people "think" I should be in this marriage - I think I should be - that's all that matters.

I'm looking for some good advice, especially from men on how I can turn this around.

Not advice on IF anyone here things I should turn it around.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

I really don't understand why you don't want to leave him. 

Are you used to miserable life scared for a change. 

Your life will be better without him!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't know your backstory, Married, but if he is abusive, leave. If he is not and you think you can work it out, you both haveto be willing and committed to the relationship in order for that to happen. One person cannot do it alone.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I really don't understand why you don't want to leave him.
> 
> Are you used to miserable life scared for a change.
> 
> Your life will be better without him!


Appreciate the advice.

Now - could someone put it aside on why I want to stay, why do I stay, etc., and please give me some constructive advice.

I'm not asking in this thread why I stay, should I stay, etc.

I'm asking for advice on how to turn things around so my husband changes his mind about leaving.

Period - I've already decided I want to stay, for my own reasons - I appreciate everyone's input and advice, but you don't walk in my shoes and live in my house - things are always different for those looking in.

I'm simply asking for advice on how to turn things around from where they are right now. 

That's all - if you can't give that type of advice, then please no more advice on leaving and why do you stay.

It is not the point of the post nor the questions I've asked.

Thanks.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

You are asking to change what can't be changed. 

Sorry, I can't help! 

God might be able to!

You are a wonderful woman, still don't know why you don't want to give yourself another chance.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You can't change someone's mind about anything, Married. If he is convinced he wants out, then let him go.

You can start to do 180s. Ifyou usually criticize, don't anymore. If you nag, don't. If you are usually asking where he's going/when he's coming back, stop.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Don't understand why you are happy with misery!

From some of your posts, you are an alpha woman. 

Shouldn't alpha women be decisive?


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> don't understand why you are happy with misery!
> 
> From some of the posts, you are an alpha woman.


victim.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

People don't respect us when we beg. 

Then don't beg!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Where is Married's original post...?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Against my better judgement:

1. Relax. If this means you need a long workout before he comes home do it. If you can't relax none of the rest applies.
2. Be good company. A low affect, positive vibe is very soothing and quite nice. That said, if he is looking for a fight go somewhere else in the house. Do not let him treat you badly - that will hurt your situation. 
3. I don't know if your "touch" relaxes or agitates him. If it relaxes him - give him some non-sexual affection - lightly - if he responds positively keep doing it. 
4. See if you can get him to engage in positive conversation. If you can't don't force it. 
5. Accept that you can be positive and good company - and he may still want to leave. Don't get visibly angry at him if he says that. He may be "testing" you. That said you can tell him "I am not ready to talk about that" if he brings up leaving again.

If he is drinking too much I can't see this working. Plenty of folks have an alcohol problem and only drink soft stuff. 



MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Appreciate the advice.
> 
> Now - could someone put it aside on why I want to stay, why do I stay, etc., and please give me some constructive advice.
> 
> ...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> You are asking to change what can't be changed.
> 
> Sorry, I can't help!
> 
> ...


I was simply asking for advice for change ON MY SIDE - not his.

This has absolutely nothing to do with fear of being alone, fear of change, etc. I'm a bright, well educated, top earning woman who is attractive, well spoken and read.

It's not about that.

I WANT TO STAY IN THIS MARRIAGE - I LOVE MY HUSBAND - END OF STORY.

Come on guys, I appreciate the "protection" and sage advice you're trying to give, I really do - but YOU ARE NOT IN MY SHOES - none of you are.

When your husband has a TBI, a prior stroke, PTSD, depression and all the other issues - then come see me - then we have something in common.

I'm simply asking for advice on changing (from my standpoint) - I'm not asking you to agree, etc.

I just want advice. 

Can you just give it to me without all the rest of the stuff?

I use this forum because it helps me a lot - I know the issues at home, I understand them - hell, I live them 24/7.

But I've made my choice - you don't have to agree with it - but respect it and move on and be there for me to lean on - that's all I ask - if that's too much to ask, then perhaps I need to leave TAM and find another forum that would put judgment aside and just be my friend.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Against my better judgement:
> 
> 1. Relax. If this means you need a long workout before he comes home do it. If you can't relax none of the rest applies.
> 2. Be good company. A low affect, positive vibe is very soothing and quite nice. That said, if he is looking for a fight go somewhere else in the house. Do not let him treat you badly - that will hurt your situation.
> ...


Thanks MEM - this is what I needed and I appreciate you putting judgment aside and giving me some well thought-out advice.

That's what I'm looking for.

Again - thanks!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> You can't change someone's mind about anything, Married. If he is convinced he wants out, then let him go.
> 
> You can start to do 180s. Ifyou usually criticize, don't anymore. If you nag, don't. If you are usually asking where he's going/when he's coming back, stop.


Thanks.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> Don't understand why you are happy with misery!
> 
> From some of your posts, you are an alpha woman.
> 
> Shouldn't alpha women be decisive?


I am alpha and decisive.

But I'm in a situation that isn't just B&W but shades of gray all over the place.

Makes it difficult...if you were in my shoes you would understand.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> People don't respect us when we beg.
> 
> Then don't beg!


Not begging.

And won't - thanks!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I think he's bluffing just to get back in control of the situation.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MWIL, buy that book

*“AWARENESS”*

by
Anthony de Mello

AND READ IT!!!!​
Do absolutely nothing with your H until you’ve read if from cover to cover. It will take you about 3 hours. It will help you take your “self”, all YOUR MEs, MYs, MINE out of the dysfunctional dynamics and CHANGE WILL HAPPEN.

Once you’ve read it post me questions and I will help you.

Bob


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Holy christ you are getting terrible advice on this thread, aside from MEM (and Bob).

Gang - She's clearly stated what she wants and has politely shut down conversation that are not constructive and you insist on judging and being catty. It's awful behaviour. 

MWIL - He's clearly told you he feels judged, and beaten down. I sent a PM with a resource. Basically, he wants to feel strong, appreciated, able to protect you and like he matters. He's probably less able to communicate then you are and does so in other ways. Ask yourself, how can I help him feel strong, desired and appreciated. It could be as simple as telling him he looks sexy, or telling him when he does something that appreciate.

Over the next little while he's going to be very sensitive and resistent to any of your changes. He won't trust them, and if the nagging has been going on for sometime, he had legitimate reason to doubt you. Just keep at it.

Most men want to feel useful, appreciate, desired and special. It's not rocket science.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> MWIL, buy that book
> 
> *“AWARENESS”*
> 
> ...


Will do it today!

Thanks Bob.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> Holy christ you are getting terrible advice on this thread, aside from MEM (and Bob).
> 
> Gang - She's clearly stated what she wants and has politely shut down conversation that are not constructive and you insist on judging and being catty. It's awful behaviour.
> 
> ...


Thanks - look forward to your PM with resources.

Don't worry about me - I can take care of myself - yes some have been harsh and probably rightly so - but bottom line is I've made my decision, I will live with it and I'm simply asking for constructive advice on what I CAN DO TO CHANGE.

Thanks again - I appreciate it.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Seeking,

Telling her to get away from a man who beat her so badly she had a concusion is not catty behavior. We are trying to give her strength so she recognizes the situation for herself. We are on her side, ya know.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> I think he's bluffing just to get back in control of the situation.


Maybe?

Or he might be serious - guess the only person that knows that is HIM.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Maybe?
> 
> Or he might be serious - guess the only person that knows that is HIM.


The reason I say this is because it was something I said to my husband right before we went to MC. I didn't mean it. It was a bluff. And remember both me and my husband have PA tendencies. So does yours. I've ordered that book that Bob suggested as well. I've already read the other PA book that I got from the library. I think your husband feels pushed into a corner and he's out of ammo so he threatens the ultimate which is divorce.

This is why just agreeing to it won't work because it will only drive him farther away. Its a cry for you to fight for him (I think). The good news is it means he really loves you if he didn't he would have just served you with papers. There would have been no threat. He would have just left.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> The reason I say this is because it was something I said to my husband right before we went to MC. I didn't mean it. It was a bluff. And remember both me and my husband have PA tendencies. So does yours. I've ordered that book that Bob suggested as well. I've already read the other PA book that I got from the library. I think your husband feels pushed into a corner and he's out of ammo so he threatens the ultimate which is divorce.
> 
> This is why just agreeing to it won't work because it will only drive him farther away. Its a cry for you to fight for him (I think). The good news is it means he really loves you if he didn't he would have just served you with papers. There would have been no threat. He would have just left.


I was thinking that too.

And why he didn't respond negatively when I said I was going to fight him over a divorce. He just said if that's what you want (voice tone changed).

I already have the book on reserve that Bob mentioned and will pick it up on my way home from the bookstore and will read it TONIGHT.

I have another one that someone PMd me that I will be picking up too - I'll send you a PM with it.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I was thinking that too.
> 
> And why he didn't respond negatively when I said I was going to fight him over a divorce. He just said if that's what you want (voice tone changed).
> 
> ...


Thanks I need all the books I can get on this subject. Ironically I'm the one that lately told my husband I was contemplating leaving before I knew he was PA. I've since taken it back and told him I was going to fight for him too. My husband's tone changed as well. He was visibly happier that I said that to him.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Thanks I need all the books I can get on this subject. Ironically I'm the one that lately told my husband I was contemplating leaving before I knew he was PA. I've since taken it back and told him I was going to fight for him too. My husband's tone changed as well. He was visibly happier that I said that to him.


Nice to have someone to lean on.

We could definitely HELP each other out.

Appreciate it.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You've spent 27 years with this guy, so either he's not a complete and total loser or you're a major glutton for punishment. One instance of physical abuse in 27 years is one two many but it doesn't describe a chronic problem. There is no place for belittling in a marriage. You clarified that with "in his words", indicating such might not actually be the case. He feels belittled, beat down, and constantly criticized. You wouldn't do that to any kid or employee. I'm an Army First Sergeant and I don't do that to my lamest excuse of a Private. People need to hear legitimate criticism but it goes down better with a healthy dose of deserved praise, too. Surely you can find something nice to say to this guy after 27 years. Just having the guts to stick with a marriage for 27 years speaks well of both of you. I wouldn't swear off all criticism cause that's not really possible. He's going to screw up and if it's important enough, he needs to hear about it. He should hear more supportive, encouraging, and loving words from his wife, though. If all you get is negativity, it's counter-motivating and tends to make people just give up (like your husband did). If someone just can't be pleased, there's no point in trying. Pick your battles wisely. Most of the things people argue about are really not that important. After he's gone (dead or just gone), you'll wish you could pick up the occasional dirty sock or hear him snore, or watch his bad table manners. He shouldn't be a total slob or completely indifferent to your needs but it's ok for him to be him. He wasn't born to meet your every expectation. You probably aren't always his idea of perfection on earth, either. Sometimes it's not what we say but the way we say it or the frequency. My wife is highly critical, too. If she could limit her vocalized disappointments to one or two of my flaws, that would be cool. Nobody wants to hear 30 in a row and after about number 3, it just sounds like *****y noise. If she tosses me the occasional sugar cookie (little kiss, hug, or praise), I'll walk through fire for her. Not even in the Army, not even in prison, do people get exclusive drudgery and criticism. I don't suppose he's killed anyone or molested any kids, so he doesn't deserve worse treatment than he would get from a prison guard, especially seeing as how the idea is for him to be in his present situation for the rest of his life.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> You've spent 27 years with this guy, so either he's not a complete and total loser or you're a major glutton for punishment. One instance of physical abuse in 27 years is one two many but it doesn't describe a chronic problem. There is no place for belittling in a marriage. You clarified that with "in his words", indicating such might not actually be the case. He feels belittled, beat down, and constantly criticized. You wouldn't do that to any kid or employee. I'm an Army First Sergeant and I don't do that to my lamest excuse of a Private. People need to hear legitimate criticism but it goes down better with a healthy dose of deserved praise, too. Surely you can find something nice to say to this guy after 27 years. Just having the guts to stick with a marriage for 27 years speaks well of both of you. I wouldn't swear off all criticism cause that's not really possible. He's going to screw up and if it's important enough, he needs to hear about it. He should hear more supportive, encouraging, and loving words from his wife, though. If all you get is negativity, it's counter-motivating and tends to make people just give up (like your husband did). If someone just can't be pleased, there's no point in trying. Pick your battles wisely. Most of the things people argue about are really not that important. After he's gone (dead or just gone), you'll wish you could pick up the occasional dirty sock or hear him snore, or watch his bad table manners. He shouldn't be a total slob or completely indifferent to your needs but it's ok for him to be him. He wasn't born to meet your every expectation. You probably aren't always his idea of perfection on earth, either. Sometimes it's not what we say but the way we say it or the frequency. My wife is highly critical, too. If she could limit her vocalized disappointments to one or two of my flaws, that would be cool. Nobody wants to hear 30 in a row and after about number 3, it just sounds like *****y noise. If she tosses me the occasional sugar cookie (little kiss, hug, or praise), I'll walk through fire for her. Not even in the Army, not even in prison, do people get exclusive drudgery and criticism. I don't suppose he's killed anyone or molested any kids, so he doesn't deserve worse treatment than he would get from a prison guard, especially seeing as how the idea is for him to be in his present situation for the rest of his life.


Thanks - I agree and that's the type of input I'm looking for.

I've done the 30 in a row and I guess that could be exhausting.

What I've realized is that I have been doing to him the exact same thing I have been fussing at him for - criticizing, nothing ever good enough, lack of appreciation and constant b**tching.

I said "in his words" as a clarification of THIS IS WHAT HE SAID. Not that I didn't believe it to be the case. 

I didn't realize I was giving what I was getting - I thought I was being helpful - he thought I was being a b**tch.

I'm actually glad that he finally spoke up and told me exactly what he was thinking - I was surprised - but it beats the hell out of the silence when I have to try and figure it out myself.

At least NOW I know how he feels - it's up to me to change how I interact and behave - ball is in my court now - but at least I know "which" ball it is.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> You've spent 27 years with this guy, so either he's not a complete and total loser or you're a major glutton for punishment.


No, he's not a total loser.

He spent 20 years and retired from the Air Force.

Fought in Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

Has a college degree.

And is very smart (still is, just changed from TBI).

He has a LOT going for him and I used to know that but I've forgotten it with all the crap that has rained down on us in the last couple of years.

I need to go back to the time when I can remember what he had going for him and why I fell in love with him.

THAT man is still there, but buried under life and everything that has happened. I need to remember that he IS still there, somewhere.


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## JamesTHorn (May 20, 2011)

I'm hearing you. If he wants out, it is simply because 1 or more of his 6 fundamental human needs is not being met in his life and/or in his relationship with you. If you facilitate and cultivate the fulfillment of these needs in your relationship he will either naturally reciprocate and move in your direction or he is just an irrevocable ASS. Here they are:
1. CERTAINTY. He needs to know that you love him unconditionally. He needs the certainty that grows from unbroken promises and commitments. Certainty comes from being married.
2. UNCERTAINTY. He needs to know that your willingness to continue to be married is not certain. Physical abuse? Deals off! Alcohol or drug abuse? Deals off! Period. He needs surprise. He needs to know that he cannot always anticipate your next move. It's one of the things that intrigue us guys in the beginning. Don't be too predictable. Unpredictability drives us crazy. But we love crazy.
3. SIGNIFICANCE. We all need to know that our existence in the world, in our family and in a relationship matters to others. That we're important. That we add some sort of value to the relationship. We need constant reminders.
4. LOVE. All we need is love. Well, love in it's all-encompassing sense covers all the other 5 needs. Just like you, he needs to feel love- unconditionally. What does this mean? See below.
5. GROWTH. He needs to feel like he is expanding, evolving, changing for the better. If you're not growing- you're dying. He needs to be encouraged and supported in the things that interest him, that he has passion for, that help him expand who he is. You can't be afraid of where this takes him.
6. CONTRIBUTION. Giving back. Using your unique gift to add value and increase the quality of others' lives is one of the greatest gifts we can give ourselves. 

Very often in failed marriages people say "I gave him/her everything". My response is that "you gave him/her everything except what they needed". You see, we very often "love" people the way we were "loved" as children or how we want to be "loved" instead of how they want to be "loved". How do we know how to make our partner feel loved? Well, sometimes the best thing to do is ask them. Questions like, What can I do to make you feel loved? What can I do to support you in your dreams? What actions and behaviors of mine make you feel small, disconnected, insignificant, un-loved etc? I want to know so I can eliminate them from our experience immediately. What do you want in a wife/woman? 

Be the woman of his dreams without asking anything in return. You can't fix a relationship by trying to fix the other person. I just doesn't work. The only true power and control that you have is over yourself. Become the kind of person that the husband of your dreams wants and you will attract that person into your life. In your case that would mean attracting your husband back into your life or , if he's past the point of no return, the man you are meant to be with. 
Also, mix it up a little. Color your hair. Wear new clothes that are a little out of character to get his attention. Persuade him out for some fun. And by all means, make every experience he has with you a positive one. At this stage you don't want to nurture any negative association he may have with you. I have to go but one last thing- Don't act desperate. He needs to know that you're willing to fight for the marriage but that you won't be abused in the process nor will you spend your life doing it. A good marriage is the pinnacle of human experience. Fight for it, but know when to cut your losses.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

This guy gave you 27+ years and he gave the Air Force 20. He's not your typical quitter. I think if you give just a wee little bit you can expect the same from him and all will be well. I bet you both want essentially the same things, to be loved and respected and to live in peace. When folks try to make a plan, agreeing on the goals is the biggest roadblock to success. Y'all already have the goals pretty well established. After 27 years, you both have seen all the ugly surprises and you've proven you can weather those. You've both earned a loving and peaceful retirement or semi-retirement. It'd be a tragedy and a terrible shame to let a little pride steal that precious time. I figure I'm probably pretty close to your ages and I know I have no ambition to break-in another woman. Dating is exhausting and I don't have the patience or the inclination. I'll stick with my imperfect wife and she can stick with her imperfect husband.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

I think its a good sign that he's telling you the negative of how he feels. Could it be manipulation on his part to get out of being accountable or not having to change? I guess but if you have an honest heart then its impossible to be manipulated. What's more important to note is that he felt he had to go to such extremes to get his boundaries respected, which is what you've done.


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## reader27 (Apr 26, 2011)

I don't think that this is really about you. It's about him. Maybe you have been criticizing him a little too much, but even if you were very supportive he would still think that you believe he is a failure. The root of most of the problems in your relationship is that _he_ believes that he is a failure, and so he projects those feelings onto you. I don't think either of you are going to be happy until he finds a way to raise his self esteem.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MWIL,

I apologize if I repeat something that's already been said, but...

I'm confused---I thought you'd been actively and consciously implementing a changed attitude.
Less criticizing, belittling, cooler temp, etc...?
I thought it was making a noticeable difference? 

Is he not seeing that? 
Or is he stuck in a historical view?
Or is he seeing it, doesn't like it, and accuses you of historical view to keep you there?

This is why it's hard to advise...because you've already been doing what you thought would turn things around.

Is it possible he's just bluffing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok, I read most of the replies.

I still know you HAVE been posting that you've been doing less of this stuff he brought to your attention.

I think magnoliagal has a good read on it. Especially since you've been working at this for awhile.

Like my H, he can't possibly NOT see a difference.
It probably gets under his skin, scares him, hurts, or angers him. 
So he's pushing you away. Upping the ante. 

The one other thing I'll add is caution NOT to wholeheartedly agree that you've been such a *****.
You clearly haven't. You clearly love him.
Show him confidence. And love at the same time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

You have clearly stated you love your husband and want to stay. So I'm going to say, STAY! 

It does no good to say leave, when that's clearly not an option for you. I will suggest however, that while you stay, get some good books on abuse, why women stay and love VS. dependence etc.

I'm sure you love him but there is a deeper core reason for why you do, and love is just a smaller part of it . Even though he might not be physically abusing you now, and because you have been in a previous abusive situation, it might shed some light.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

It's sad to love a person who doesn't love back!

It's just sad!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> It's sad to love a person who doesn't love back!
> 
> It's just sad!


They don't know how or can't and yes that is sad.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

In my personal sphere, friends tell me to leave. They say that I'm carrying her through life. The things that have been said over the years are hurtful, but I still see the one I married within. I think I know a little about your feelings, and I also understand those who urge you to leave. Thing is, there are things keeping you with him that your posts can't put into words. How do you describe such a complex set of emotions?

Its your decision, so I'm saying this as though its a blank slate.

As a man, I'll urge that you don't write off criticisms. Just keep them as impersonal and infrequent as your needs allow. "This makes me feel---" comments let him know that you are sincere, balanced, and not wearing a mask. Otherwise, he'll think its an act. Keep check, and let the positive comments outweigh the negative.

He's a man with a degree and a military service record. Most think that speaks for itself, but he would much rather hear you speak of the things that you admire and respect. One ounce of your verbal praise has the potential to make him feel capable of being so much more. I mean, if he describes you as critical, then he's only hiding behind the wall because he's scared. He's not a coward, nor a saint. We just make these kind of decisions one bit at a time. Supplement the positive words with affirming body language. Push your boundaries with the way you touch him on the areas that only a wife will touch (get your mind out of the gutter - I'm taking about his face and neck).

Sadly, most of us get caught up into thinking its so much more complicated. There is a number of complex reasons he got to where he is, but you're looking for something that gives short term results while you work on the long term solutions. Maybe this can help a little in the meantime.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Halien said:


> He's a man with a degree and a military service record. Most think that speaks for itself, but he would much rather hear you speak of the things that you admire and respect. One ounce of your verbal praise has the potential to make him feel capable of being so much more. I mean, if he describes you as critical, then he's only hiding behind the wall because he's scared. He's not a coward, nor a saint. We just make these kind of decisions one bit at a time. Supplement the positive words with affirming body language. Push your boundaries with the way you touch him on the areas that only a wife will touch (get your mind out of the gutter - I'm taking about his face and neck).


Very wise words and ones which apply to me as well. I used to think for my own husband being an accomplished, high ranking officer was enough but nope it's not even close. He cares more about how I feel about him than he does those at work. Mind boggling and sometimes overwhelming.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You can be married and love someone but it becomes a black hole of need. Folks, those who do not know MWIL's situation let me give you the Cliff Notes version. She is a lovely lady who has stood by her husband with addiction issues, a brain injury, his emotional/verbal abuse, his physical abuse that caused a concussion, his constant anger at her, his mocking her weight, the way she eats, etc. She also works full time to support him. 
There is literally nothing she can do in his eyes that is enough. Literally nothing. The best thing she could ever do is kick him out. I know she won't, she knows she won't. She has been in this prison for so long, she is dependent on it. 
MWIL, you know I love you dearly. I wish you the very best and perhaps after your surgery you will have a new lease on life and see this man for who he really is. I know you love him, trust me I do. I really hope though that after June you love yourself more. You are worth so so much more, my dear!


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You can be married and love someone but it becomes a black hole of need. Folks, those who do not know MWIL's situation let me give you the Cliff Notes version. She is a lovely lady who has stood by her husband with addiction issues, a brain injury, his emotional/verbal abuse, his physical abuse that caused a concussion, his constant anger at her, his mocking her weight, the way she eats, etc. She also works full time to support him.
> There is literally nothing she can do in his eyes that is enough. Literally nothing. The best thing she could ever do is kick him out. I know she won't, she knows she won't. She has been in this prison for so long, she is dependent on it.
> MWIL, you know I love you dearly. I wish you the very best and perhaps after your surgery you will have a new lease on life and see this man for who he really is. I know you love him, trust me I do. I really hope though that after June you love yourself more. You are worth so so much more, my dear!



While some of this may be true.

The fact is I am absolutely devastated that my marriage may end.

In fact, I am paralyzed by fear that it may actually end.

I am now having trouble eating and sleeping again. 

I appreciate that you care about me - I DO NOT WANT MY MARRIAGE TO END and to be honest, I don't know what I'll do if it actually does. I can't even process that it might let alone process anything else.

That fist is back in the pit of my stomach again.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

AFEH said:


> MWIL, buy that book
> 
> *“AWARENESS”*
> 
> ...


I read it and PMd you.

Thanks.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> This guy gave you 27+ years and he gave the Air Force 20. He's not your typical quitter. I think if you give just a wee little bit you can expect the same from him and all will be well. I bet you both want essentially the same things, to be loved and respected and to live in peace. When folks try to make a plan, agreeing on the goals is the biggest roadblock to success. Y'all already have the goals pretty well established. After 27 years, you both have seen all the ugly surprises and you've proven you can weather those. You've both earned a loving and peaceful retirement or semi-retirement. It'd be a tragedy and a terrible shame to let a little pride steal that precious time. I figure I'm probably pretty close to your ages and I know I have no ambition to break-in another woman. Dating is exhausting and I don't have the patience or the inclination. I'll stick with my imperfect wife and she can stick with her imperfect husband.



This isn't about breaking in another wife/husband.

He said he would drather be totally alone and miserable than with me and miserable. At least he'd have peace and quiet.

I don't think he's interested in breaking in another wife. I think he just wants to get rid of this one.

And I am absolutely devastated by it - a lot more than I thought I would be - I'm just plain scared that it may actually happen and I'm having trouble functioning.

How did I screw things up this bad????????????????????????????


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> And I am absolutely devastated by it - a lot more than I thought I would be - I'm just plain scared that it may actually happen and I'm having trouble functioning.


THIS is what you should be discussing with your therapist. Your fear is causing you not to be able to think straight.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> How did I screw things up this bad????????????????????????????


YOU didn't.

(I'm not implying that he singlehandedly did.)

but, YOU did not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> YOU didn't.
> 
> (I'm not implying that he singlehandedly did.)
> 
> ...


YES I DID.

I have been in complete denial about the role I have played (and it's been a big one).

And now it may be too late and I'm absolutely devastated - just plain devastated.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> YES I DID.
> 
> I have been in complete denial about the role I have played (and it's been a big one).
> 
> And now it may be too late and I'm absolutely devastated - just plain devastated.


MWIL, 
I've read several posts from you where you essentially say "I didn't realize how much I was doing all these things, till now. Now that he's mentioning it, I'm going to work on it."
OR, specifically listing all the things you're changing, and the positive effect it's had on your relationship.

You've been working at that self-awareness and those changes for months.

And even if you "fail" or slip here and there...it still takes two.
Why would you give yourself the entire burden to bear of this failure?
It cannot possibly be ALL on you. 
That's a lie you're willing to believe--why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

I'm sorry you're going through this MWIL. I have no real words of advice, except to hang in there the best you can. I know thats easier said than done. 

How was the weekend? Did he speak to you? Was much of anything said or discussed about what he said to you the other day?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Jamison said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this MWIL. I have no real words of advice, except to hang in there the best you can. I know thats easier said than done.
> 
> How was the weekend? Did he speak to you? Was much of anything said or discussed about what he said to you the other day?


The weekend was quiet.

I tried to give him his space to process what was going on with him. I stayed out of the way and kept contact to a minimum.

Somewhat of a freeze on Sat (didn't want me to make his breakfast, give him his meds, etc., - was doing everything for himself), but a slight thaw on Sun - he was speaking back to me (unlike Sat when he wouldn't answer) and we watched TV together (in silence). He did (I believe accidentally) reach out to hug/touch me in bed this weekend but then jerked away.

I know he loves me - he's just fed up - with his Mom & Dad dying within 3 months of each other, he's reassessing his life and has decided it might be better without me in it.

This is worse case scenario for me and I'm having a really hard time with it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> MWIL,
> I've read several posts from you where you essentially say "I didn't realize how much I was doing all these things, till now. Now that he's mentioning it, I'm going to work on it."
> OR, specifically listing all the things you're changing, and the positive effect it's had on your relationship.
> 
> ...


I'm not.

He has admitted to mistakes also but says he can't live his life like this anymore. He would drather be alone and miserable, than miserable in the marriage.

I have slipped a lot - I've been very demeaning, critical and belittling. I thought that enlightening him on what I needed and where he "failed" would bring us together - I couldn't have been more wrong.

I believe I have emasculated him to the point where he just doesn't want to be around me anymore, I make him feel worse about himself than he already does.

We don't have children in the house anymore and so he doesn't think there is anything to keep us together. I told him I would completely change everything where I was at fault and he said - great - you can do it for the next guy.

But then again, he sends mixed messages. Watched TV with me yesterday, threw his arm over me in bed several times this weekend, kissed me goodnight - but then tells me he's done.

I know he still loves me - he didn't deny it when we talked - just said it wasn't the point.

I want to believe he's bluffing - but I don't think so anymore - he seems so final. But he's made no plans at all and is doing his normal day-to-day thing.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well if he is adamant about wanting out out, the only thing you can do is accept it & let him go.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I know this must be unimaginably difficult and painful.

I think giving him even more space is advisable.
He told you he doesn't want things from you--breakfast, meds, conversation.

When you offer them, you set yourself up for probable rejection.
And you give him the power and ability to hurt you by saying "no."

If you want him to feel a desire for you, he may have to feel a void where you were.
You may have to back off even more.
180...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Sounds like he's trying to detach but isn't completely able to do it hence the mixed messages.

Stay strong. I agree with the space thing. Respect his wishes.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I know this must be unimaginably difficult and painful.
> 
> I think giving him even more space is advisable.
> He told you he doesn't want things from you--breakfast, meds, conversation.
> ...


He didn't want those on Sat - he accepted them on Sun and this morning.

The scary part is - he may not feel a void - he didn't seem to this weekend - at all and I think that was the worst part because I could sense it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Well if he is adamant about wanting out out, the only thing you can do is accept it & let him go.


I'm not sure that's what he really wants.

Mixed messages I've been getting.

I think he wants it but doesn't want it - I think he's confused, hence the reason he's actually done nothing other than say it.

No actions to go at all.

In fact, he told me last Thursday when he brought this up that it takes a year to get a divorce in our state.

Not true, he could file now and it would be over within 60 days if we agreed to settlement issues since there are no minor children involved and everything, but our home is paid off.

So where did the year come from?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Sounds like he's trying to detach but isn't completely able to do it hence the mixed messages.
> 
> Stay strong. I agree with the space thing. Respect his wishes.


I am/will.

I'm just afraid this will allow him to further drift away.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to sit in a home with someone who is like a ghost - there, but not there?

It's the worst thing I've ever been through - with the exception of some time on Sun - it was terrible - I didn't even know what to do with myself - went into town, did some shopping, laundry, etc., and still felt so totally alone I almost couldn't bear it.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Do you have any idea how hard it is to sit in a home with someone who is like a ghost - there, but not there?


Yes in fact I do. I spent years like that with my own PA husband. Sucks and it hurt more than I can describe. The only thing that helped was the fact that we worked opposite shifts so I didn't have to do it often. When he gets that way can you leave?

I'm not saying ignore him I'm saying respect his wishes. 

Oh and the year thing is another bluff tactic. He think it's his timeline but I'm not sure I believe him. I said the same thing.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> He didn't want those on Sat - he accepted them on Sun and this morning.
> 
> The scary part is - he may not feel a void - he didn't seem to this weekend - at all and I think that was the worst part because I could sense it.


There wasn't a void if you were sitting there right next to him!
What harm does it do to get out of the house by yourself when he drops this bomb on you?
Instead of sitting next to him waiting for him to accept your love???

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. 
My own H has pulled similar crap on me before. 
"may I please make you breakfast?"---is an AWFUL feeling.

I will NEVER allow myself to be rejected by my husband again.
That feels much better.

Don't position yourself for rejection. 
He says "I don't want you"? 
Say "I hope you don't mean that," give him a confident smile, and then leave the house to give him space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Now is the time to get out of the house some. Do some things for yourself. Take care of yourself, because this seems to possibly no longer be in your hands.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I am taking care of myself. 

I went out on Sat and shopped, etc., and stayed gone for about 4 hours.

On Sun I went into town and was gone for 3 hours.

It was the being home that was awful - it felt like a tomb. 

That's the hardest for me - being in the same bed with him and not being able to touch.

No good night kisses.

No kisses goodbye.

No PM phone call when he finished his doctor's appt's.

Those were things I looked forward to and now that they are gone - it's like I've died.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

One other thing that was weird.

His porn use ramped way down the last few weeks.

Until yesterday (Sun) - then it was all he did - not really websites, but websites for sex toys. Even with me sitting in the room.

Seemed to be an obssession to look at everyone he could find.

Was weird, even for him.

And, he's not even hiding anymore. Browser is right there and open for me to see, yet he minimized the screen every time I got near the computer.

If he's leaving and doesn't care - then why minimize the screen - if I'm to be his STBX, then why does he care if I see what he's doing?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> If he's leaving and doesn't care - then why minimize the screen - if I'm to be his STBX, then why does he care if I see what he's doing?


Fitness test?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Fitness test?


Okay - well what did he expect me to do?

I didn't question, didn't ask and only saw it later because he left it on the screen, like he had nothing to hide, yet minimized the screen every time I came near it.

He just confuses the crap out of me sometimes.

I don't know which end is up.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Okay - well what did he expect me to do?


How would you have responded in the past?

I've been changing my behavior with my PA husband and he's fitness testing me. Sounds like you are in the same place I am.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> How would you have responded in the past?
> 
> I've been changing my behavior with my PA husband and he's fitness testing me. Sounds like you are in the same place I am.


In the past -

Said - you don't have to minimize your screen when I walk by, I know you're looking at porn.

This time I had no input or response whatsoever - pretended like I didn't even see it.

Could he be saying he wants a divorce a test too?

He seems so serious - like it's final - it's not like him to do it the way he's doing it unless he's made up his mind.

But then again - he flops - like the TV and touching me in bed, etc.

I want so badly to believe I can turn this around - but I'm not sure.

I'm gonna try though.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Could he be saying he wants a divorce a test too?


Yes. Think about it. He is sending mixed messages, he gave the year timeline when if he wanted he could leave now, etc.

I think he's trying to take back control of his life starting with you. Just a guess I mean he could be serious and if he is there is not a whole lot you can do. Your job is to give him space, back off and let him be.

Not commenting on the porn was a good move.


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## reader27 (Apr 26, 2011)

It seems like you are contributing a lot more to your marriage than he is. It makes me wonder, does he really think that he would be better off without you? Or does he think that _you_ would be better off without _him_?


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

reader27 said:


> It seems like you are contributing a lot more to your marriage than he is. It makes me wonder, does he really think that he would be better off without you? Or does he think that _you_ would be better off without _him_?


Actually - he has said in the past that I would be better off without HIM.

Maybe this is his way of going about it since I'm too damn stubborn to leave myself.

IDK.


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