# Wife shouts at me and believes crazy things about me after pregnancy and new diet



## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi everyone

I've been married to my wife for a year and a half, we have a baby of 13 months. I've been finding my feelings for her change since she has begun to shout at me in front of our baby. She will scream and swear so loudly. It distresses both me and him. When this happens I don't reply, just leave the room, and, if possible, take my son with me to a quiet part of the house with some toys. More often than not she will follow me and demand that I give her back her child.

My one and only trigger is being shouted at. Before this, it would be very, very rare that I would become angry. I have learned over the years that the best thing to do in that situation is to walk away. The problem here is that she feels I'm ignoring her, so she shouts louder and makes it worse. I haven't shouted back at her in front of our child, but I've come close.

I was madly in love with this woman. She is beautiful, intelligent and so talented. But this new behaviour is killing me. She was never like this before she became pregnant.

So I confronted her, and told her that my feelings for her were changing because I am unable to accept that she is comfortable to act this way. She retorted by telling me that she had suffered silently throughout our marriage, saying that I had starved her while breastfeeding and denied her water. I've never been so hurt in my life. It's like she only said it to hurt me, but that's not her at all. She never would have done anything like that. She really was one of the sweetest women I've ever met.

I was made redundant shortly before the birth, but I had plenty of savings, so money wasn't an issue. Since then, I've been cooking, taking care of the house, making sure everything was as it should be for the baby coming and since the birth. While my wife was breastfeeding I was constantly cooking fresh meals, bringing her tea, carrying bottles of Evian to the bed. To hear her tell me I had starved her was such a suckerpunch, I still don't know how to react or know how to feel. Put plainly, it isn't true. I don't even know if she believes it's true, but she's certainly acting like it.

A few months after the birth she changed her diet to 'Paleo'. This means no grains at all; corn, rice, wheat, oats. She now considers grains poison and also doesn't allow our child to eat it. Before this she was always eating rye bread and butter, rice and fish sauce. The only thing that makes sense is that her new diet is affecting her brain or thought process. She has lost a lot of weight, and while I may prefer her with her old figure, I would still love her no matter her size; I just think that she's lacking some minerals or vitamins that will help her think straight. I would never starve her or deny her anything. It's just too awful to contemplate that my wife believes that about me.

I really don't know what to do. She expects me to stand and be shouted at, she demands to be listened. I'm more than happy to listen and discuss issues she might have when our kid is asleep. I know she wants me to apologise for walking away from her, but I believe it's what is best for our baby. 

I do still love her, but I don't know how I can stay with her if this keeps happening. I love my son and I would never leave him. I hope someone has some advice I could use.

Thanks


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Sad story. Are you saying that she was very sweet before you married her & never yelled at you?

Maybe she has post-partum depression or is bipolar?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

She should definitely be evaluated for PPD. She also should NOT be feeding an infant a Paleo diet. If I were you I would ask a dr. about that one. I know what Paleo is and it's too extreme for an infant, unless she is almost exclusively breastfeeding still, which it doesn't sound like she is.

As with any 'diet', Paleo can be done properly without lacking nutrition, but you have to be really careful. Educate yourself on it so you can see if she's doing it properly or not. Just observe, don't interfere.

And about the shouting, tell her it is unacceptable and that you will continue to leave the room when she yells and you will not be responding when she follows you. Leave the house if you have to - I am sure she doesn't yell at the baby while you're gone. Tell her she needs to see someone about PPD and if she refuses, you will have to decide if you can continue to put up with it.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

When a woman sees your back while you are walking away, she thinks you are abandoning her. If you can, set a specific amount of time you will be gone and tell her that before you walk away. Then, come back at the time you told her. Don't stay away and not say anything. If you have to, you can always come back to her, then walk away again. As long as you let her know what you are doing. Don't walk away and get in the car and drive crazy or anything. Take a walk, go out and sit on the porch or walk around the yard. Go to the garage alone. Wait till you feel better or the time limit you said you would be gone is up, then come back to her. If it is that bad, you will have to address the issue within a day or two, but you will have to tell her that.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

She never yelled at me before she got pregnant, no. The first time she shouted at me she was pregnant but didn't know yet. It was over nothing and she did apologise. The first major yelling happened the day I asked her to marry me - later that day I said we should get lots of fruit and vegetables while we were at the store and she exploded saying that she decides what she eats. She literally didn't stop yelling at me until after we got home, for the entire walk. I was really embarrassed but felt I had to take it on the chin because of hormones etc.

She did suffer from PPD and went to counselling. I supported her as much as I could have at the time and honestly felt I was doing a good job. Last night she accused me of never having read the books and doing nothing to support her. I mean, she's got to know that's not true, but she's adamant. Bipolar is a possibility... She's incredibly smart, genius level smart.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

bwall said:


> She never yelled at me before she got pregnant, no. The first time she shouted at me she was pregnant but didn't know yet. It was over nothing and she did apologise. The first major yelling happened the day I asked her to marry me - later that day I said we should get lots of fruit and vegetables while we were at the store and she exploded saying that she decides what she eats. She literally didn't stop yelling at me until after we got home, for the entire walk. I was really embarrassed but felt I had to take it on the chin because of hormones etc.
> 
> She did suffer from PPD and went to counselling. I supported her as much as I could have at the time and honestly felt I was doing a good job. Last night she accused me of never having read the books and doing nothing to support her. I mean, she's got to know that's not true, but she's adamant. Bipolar is a possibility... She's incredibly smart, genius level smart.


Yes you may be right about bipolar. 

You can't fix her.

She needs to go to a doctor for an accurate dx.

Good luck.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks for your responses!
Hope: Thanks, talking to a doctor is a great idea. It would be great if I could convince her to come along. I'll certainly try. She did scream in front of our baby when I wasn't in the room a couple of times. Once it was a primal scream or roar, the other she was calling me a d-head for leaving the room. Both times I grabbed our baby and bought him to play in another room.

2ntnuf: That's great advice. The time limit makes sense and gives a definite space for both of us. Thank you so much.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Emerald said:


> Yes you may be right about bipolar.
> 
> You can't fix her.
> 
> ...


I really hope it's not bipolar... do you have any experience with it?
Is it ticking boxes for you? I only ask because I knew a guy whose wife was bipolar and that ended terribly.
I'm praying for a solution that doesn't involve meds and the like... :/


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

bwall said:


> I really hope it's not bipolar... do you have any experience with it?
> Is it ticking boxes for you? I only ask because I knew a guy whose wife was bipolar and that ended terribly.
> I'm praying for a solution that doesn't involve meds and the like... :/


Yes, plenty bipolar in my family history.

If she is bipolar, she needs a mood stabilizer. They work wonderfully, will balance her moods & give your family a normal life. The only med-free treatment that I know of is weed. Where I live, medicinal MJ is legal.

The bad news is that most (not all) people with bipolar disorder go an average of 10 yrs. before dx. That is usually when their life falls completely apart before they admit they have a problem & seek treatment.

If she is bipolar you will see mania & depression. Research the sypmtoms for both.

Good luck.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Emerald said:


> The only med-free treatment that I know of is weed. Where I live, medicinal MJ is legal.


Well, I guess every cloud does have a silver lining!

Seriously though, Emerald. Thank you so much for your advice and time. While I hope she isn't bipolar, you've taught me that it is possible she does suffer from something and that thing can be treated. I started this thread hoping to learn something that I can do, but there's plenty more to figure out and in different places. Thanks again.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

You starved her and didn't give her enough to drink??? what, was she bed ridden? I think the proper response to this is to laugh. 

DOn't put up with this. Something is seriously wrong here, with her change in temperment. What exactly is she angry with you about when she does all this yelling?


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

KanDo said:


> What exactly is she angry with you about when she does all this yelling?


The easiest example to tell happened last week. We had been driving for two hours back from visiting my sister, I was at the wheel. When we got into the house I made her a mug of tea, gave her a kiss and asked if there's anything I could do for her. She said no, so without saying anymore I went to the porch for a smoke. 

While outside I could hear her getting frustrated. 'Why is this on the floor? Grrrr", that kind of thing. I popped my head in and asked if she needed help. She said no, so I went outside to finish my smoke. When I came back in she was still frustrated so I asked again, how can I help? She started shouting at me saying the place was filthy and how dare I go off for a smoke without saying so. BTW the place wasn't filthy, there were some socks and baby wipes on the floor.

I feel that after two hours of traffic, making my wife a cup of tea and making sure all is good before going out for a smoke is perfectly reasonable. I don't think I need to announce it nor ask for permission. It's only five minutes. But she yelled at me and our son was right there.

The more I think about it and read about it, the more I think Emerald may be at least pointing in the right direction. It's more than depression at this stage.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bwall said:


> Bipolar is a possibility... She's incredibly smart, genius level smart.


Bwall, I agree with Emerald and you that bipolar is a possibility worth considering. I note, however, that the behaviors you describe sound closer to BPD traits than to bipolar traits. I am not a psychologist but I did live with a BPDer exW for 15 years and I've taken care of a bipolar foster son for longer than that. Moreover, I took both of them to a long series of psychologists for 15 years. Based on those experiences, I have found many clear differences between the two disorders.

*One difference* is that the mood swings are on two separate spectra having very different polar extremes. Whereas a bipolar sufferer swings between _mania_ and _depression_, a BPDer flips back and forth between _loving you_ and _hating you_. Importantly, you mention nothing about seeing mania. But you do talk about her flipping back and forth between loving you and devaluing you.

*A second difference* is seen in the frequency of mood changes. Bipolar mood swings are very slow because they are caused by gradual changes in body chemistry. They are considered rapid if as many as four occur in a year. In contrast, four BPD mood changes can easily occur in four days. The latter therefore seems more consistent with your description of numerous temper tantrums.

*A third difference* is seen in duration. Whereas bipolar moods typically last a week or two, BPD rages typically last only a few hours (and rarely as long as 36 hours). Again, these short-duration rages seem consistent with with the tantrums you describe.

*A fourth difference* is seen in the speed with which the mood change develops. Whereas a bipolar change typically will build slowly over two weeks, a BPD change typically occurs in less than a minute -- often in only 10 seconds -- because it is event-triggered by some innocent comment or action. Significantly, the behavior you describe seems consistent with these event-triggered outbursts.

*A fifth difference* is that, whereas bipolar can be treated very successfully in at least 80% of victims by swallowing a pill, BPD cannot be managed by medication because it arises from childhood damage to the emotional core -- not from a change in body chemistry.

*A sixth difference* is that, whereas bipolar disorder can cause people to be irritable and obnoxious during the manic phase, it does not rise to the level of meanness and vindictiveness you see when a BPDer is splitting you black. That difference is HUGE: while a manic person may regard you as an irritation, a BPDer can perceive you as Hitler and will treat you accordingly. This seems consistent with your description of very hateful, spiteful behavior.

*A seventh difference* is that, whereas a bipolar sufferer is not usually angry, a BPDer is filled with anger that has been carried inside since early childhood. You only have to say or do some minor thing to trigger a sudden release of that anger -- which seems consistent with your description.

*An eight difference* is that a bipolar sufferer typically is capable of tolerating intimacy when he is not experiencing strong mania or depression. In contrast, BPDers have such a weak and unstable self image that (except for the brief infatuation period) they cannot tolerate intimacy for long before feeling engulfed and suffocated by your personality.

BPDers therefore will create arguments over nothing as a way to push you away and give them breathing room. Hence, it is not surprising that they tend to create the very WORST arguments immediately following the very BEST of times, i.e., right after an intimate evening or a great weekend spent together. This seems consistent with your statement that _"the first major yelling happened the day I asked her to marry me - later that day...."_

*A ninth difference* is that the thinking and behavior of a BPDer includes more mental departures from reality (called "dissociation") wherein "feelings create facts." That is, BPDers typically do not intellectually challenge their intense feelings. Instead, they accept them as accurately reflecting your intentions and motivations. In contrast, bipolar disorder tends to be more neurotic in that the mood swings tend to be based more on extreme exaggerations of fact, not the creation of "fact" out of thin air based solely on feelings. 

Because "feelings create facts" with BPDers, it is common for them to do black-white thinking, wherein they will categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad." Because the grey areas do not exist in their minds, they will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just seconds -- based solely on a minor infraction (real or perceived). 

This all-or-nothing type thinking is especially evident in the way -- when a BPDer's mood changes -- she will completely "rewrite history." That is, it is common for a BPDer to suddenly declare -- and sincerely believe it at the time -- that she _never_ really ever loved you or that you _always_ neglected her. The frequent use of all-or-nothing terms like "never" and "always" is a strong sign of this B-W thinking. 

This "feelings create facts" behavior seems consistent with your W's amazing claim that _"she had suffered silently throughout our marriage, saying that I had starved her while breastfeeding and denied her water."_ Similarly, you state, _"She accused me of never having read the books and doing nothing to support her."_

*A tenth difference* is that a bipolar sufferer -- whether depressed or manic -- usually is able to trust you if he or she knows you well. Untreated BPDers, however, are unable to trust for an extended period. Before they can trust others, they must first learn how to trust and love themselves. I mention this because your description of your W's behavior suggests she does not trust you for any extended period.

*An eleventh difference* is that, whereas BPDers are always convinced they are "The Victim," bipolar sufferers usually have a much stronger self image. BPDers therefore have a strong need to validate that false self image by blaming every misfortune on the spouse. This behavior may be consistent with your complaint that "she expects me to stand and be shouted at, she demands to be listened...."


> I hope someone has some advice I could use.


I agree with Emerald's advice that you encourage your W to see a doctor. The type of doctor I recommend is a psychologist or psychiatrist because they have the best training for distinguishing between PPD, bipolar, and BPD.

I caution that BPD is a spectrum disorder that affects everyone to some degree. Hence, every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is emotionally healthy. Moreover, we all can get flair ups where our BPD traits are very strong for a few months when we are under enormous stress or have strong hormone changes. Hence, if you decide that you are seeing strong BPD traits, an important issue is whether this is just a temporary flair up caused by postpartum hormone changes or, rather, is a persistent problem that started in her adolescence.

When strong BPD traits are persistent, they typically start showing big time by the mid-teens and then persist. They do not vanish for years at a time. They typically will vanish, however, for a period of 4 to 6 months during the courtship period because the BPDer's infatuation holds her two great fears at bay. When the infatuation fades, the fears return. In your situation, you say the fighting and verbal abuse has been going on now for 21 months, which may indicate the problems are not explained by PPD. You may be right in concluding _"It's more than depression at this stage."_

I also caution that, even if your W does decide to see a psychologist, you cannot rely on HER psych to be candid with you if the diagnosis is BPD -- even when YOU are the one paying his bill. It is common for therapists to withhold the name of the disorder from BPDers (and their spouses) in order to protect their sick client. This is why it is important to see a therapist who is ethically bound to protect YOUR interests, not HERS, whenever you suspect BPD may be involved.

Finally, I suggest that, while you are waiting for an appointment, you read my brief description of BPD traits to see if most of them sound very familiar. It is located in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, Bwall.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks, Uptown. I've read your post five times now, your link twice. It ticks so many boxes for me that I do think she possibly has BPD more so than bipolar. She had a terrible childhood and her mother was very controlling, but more needy it seems these days as she has grown older. It's an unhealthy relationship that they have and I certainly see elements of her mother's neuroses in her, but put it down to behavioural traits rather than a shared disorder. 

I do feel that I've been enabling her behaviour in this regard. We moved next door to her mother so that she could spend time with our baby. My friends warned me not to, but I saw that the two of them were so close I felt it would be the thing that would make us all happiest. Needless to say, it isn't working out, she has depressive episodes and will not come over to see our son for days and sometimes weeks at a time. She hid away on his birthday which really upset me, but not my wife who shrugged it off as nothing. My MIL has only a couple of online friends whom she Skypes with. She has no hobbies nor real life friends, only my wife and I.

I talked to my wife this morning about how I feel she is depressed, perhaps more, and that I wanted to go to counselling. She responded by saying while she's willing to get counselling, it is I who is 'crazy' and that unless I get professional help first, she's leaving.

I know that of course I could do things better and everybody has room to grow emotionally, I am not mentally ill. I am close to suffering a depressive episode because of her behaviour. I agreed to see a psychologist.

I picked one that also does counselling. My hope is that I can speak to the psychologist about what is happening, my feelings about it and then to be able to bring in my wife, at first together and then just the two of them. I worry about this being a sneaky way of intervening, but I think it's best for her, our baby and our marriage if she is able to pin down exactly what's happening.

I'm tired of being made out to be someone who I am not. I know that I am a caring father and a loving husband - to a fault. I think that, after educating myself about BPD, the spouse is often left to feel that they are indeed crazy and a bad person. I do love her, but I'm worried that being in a relationship with a BPD spouse can only end in tears. 

You seem like a very wise, insightful and empathetic person, Uptown. I hope you've found happiness since leaving your exW.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I'm happy to hear she is willing to get some counseling. Like Uptown says, make sure the counselor specializes in both BPD & bipolar.

Also, I don't know about BPD but bipolar runs rampant in families. Think about her family members going back to grandparents, etc. to see if there is some unexplained "crazy" in her family history.


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## AsTheStoryGoes (Oct 10, 2012)

BPD and BP (along with depression and a handful of other things) run in my family and on my husband's side as well.. I'm just posting to give you my support, I've already read all the great advice people have given you. I really hope your wife gets the help she desperately needs. I'm amazed at the level of patience, self control and understanding you have shown towards her. I can't imagine having a spouse who showed those behaviors continually, it has to be exhausting. But it's clear you care about her and love her despite everything, she's very lucky. I hope for her sake and your child's that she can learn how to deal with this.  Best of luck, and I look forward to seeing how things turn out.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks for your support. It is exhausting, but it's worth it if I can get us all to the point where we are all happy and healthy.


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

I feel for you, I really do. You see, at one time I was like your wife.

After the birth of my second son, I completely changed. I flew off the handle so easy, would throw things, yell, shout. It didn't help that I was on prednizone for chrons (dr failed to mention that it would alter my brain chemistry). I nearly destroyed my family, and that was the last thing I wanted. I made an active effort to fix the issues I had, got off the meds on my own, and while I wasn't 100% myself, I was doing better.

With my pregnancy of my third son, I had depression even before he was born, to the point where I would have mood swings from crying, to blah, to easily angered. Even after he was born I still struggled with this. I do not know how my SO put up with it all, I think what helped was that I also recognized that what I was doing, was not me. I always felt guilty when I would yell shout, etc after the fact.

I also used to say to my SO that I didn't need any help, or even if he offered I would say no. If he went out and I had to stay home, that made me upset. Normally it wouldn't. But during this time it did. Things needed to change. I met with a psychiatrist, was on Zoloft (safe for pregnancy and breastfeeding), and saw my counselor. Once my third son was 1 year old, I over came the issues I had.

Your wife needs to recognize what she is doing. My SO would sit me down (during a time when I was not angry or anything) and would lovingly speak to me, saying things like "I feel hurt and sadden when you act this way, I do not know what I am doing wrong, I ask if you need help, I tell you to ask me for help, and when you shout it hurts me because I don't even know what I am doing wrong". Use I statements. Don't mention the things she does, just tell her how you feel, how you try to help but feel torn down when she does not appreciate or recognize your efforts. As a man, you are being emasculated, that is, being torn down and felt worthless. No man deserves that and no woman should think they are allowed to do that. Tell her you love her and want to one day see the woman come back who you fell in love with and married. An idea would be to say "I will watch our son tonight, you go have a nice hot bath, read a book, relax. Or have a night out with your friends" Offer kindness when she presents scorn. Offer love and patience. That is the only thing you can do to defuse the situation.

You mentioned that the shouting is a trigger for you and that you ignore and leave the room. As a woman, that is the wrong thing to do as we do take that as being ignored. So instead, calmly say "At this time, I cannot reply to you as your shouting angers me and I do not want to speak to you in anger. I am going to leave the room to give you time to calm down, I will also take our son with me, please do not continue this. I will speak to you when you are calm and when I am ready' or something along those lines. If she persists to take the baby, ensure her that you will take care of him and that she needs some cool off time, don't make it negotiable, heck, leave the house if need be, that is go for a walk or to the park. Stand your ground. Tell her that she needs to think about what her actions are doing. And at the same time to let you know of the things she needs of you.

Also, her shouting when the baby is around is not smart. With my first son, with my ex-husband, he yelled alot. I told him that he needed to save it for when our son was not around. Needless to say he did not, and I had noticed that my son could tell the tension in the room, it was hard to get him to smile his first year because the atmosphere was so toxic. Babies can sense the emotions of the people around them. They need to feel safe.

As for the diet, any diet she is on she needs to be very, VERY careful what the baby eats. Watch the documentary "Forks Over Knives" and consider a whole foods plant based diet. You see, we cannot cut out grains from one'sdiet. We need those nutrients, albeit there are some grains that do nothing for the body, (corn, white rice, etc), but I recommend looking at a whole foods plant based diet if she is deeply concerned about food in general. I fed my boys fruits and veggies and grains, I held off giving them meats, and while they do eat meats now, it is not the main course. And I have no problems trying to get them to have their veggies. My oldest calls broccoli trees  Thing is, no baby should be lacking anything, and grains are important (so as long as you know of the ones that do nothing for the body)

I feel for you, it is tough, like I said, I have no idea how my SO managed to get through things, and now with baby #4 on the way, I surely hope I keep my eye on my behavior so that as soon as things start to veer off who I am, I can get a handle on things.

I hope things work out for you. You and your wife will be in my thoughts and it is my hope that one day something will help her to see that what she is doing is hurtful and needs to be dealt with and changed.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

JoyfulHeart, thank you so much for sharing your experiences and for your support. May I ask if you for how long you attended professional counselling? Did your husband go with you? I will take your advice the next time she yells at me. I won't just leave the room, I'll explain why I need to leave. It may be the same speech each time, but it's definitely better than how I normally react. Thanks.


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

I basically went to counseling for close to a year. I went on my own, for i knew it was I that needed to take a look inside myself as to what I was doing to sabotage my relationship and family. Albeit, I also spoke with my SO about what I learned or about what he counselor said or suggested I do. Communication is also important as well. It also helped my SO hold me accountable to the things I needed to work on and change.

Ya, I can totally see your situation only because I was on the other side and see what happens to the man in all this. I know you are doing your best, and I know men can't read women's minds and likewise. That is why you need to take initiative and show with actions that you do care about her, love her, even have a date that she likes (perhaps a movie or a favorite venue and have her decide and be excited about the date) Kindness is hard to show, especially when you are being yelled at. But remember, cooler heads always prevail. A gentle answer turns away wrath. Men are told to hide their emotions and act tough. But I think it is important that they at time show that they are hurt by another's words or actions. To me, this shows me that that man has great strength, not only to stand up for himself but to stand up to those who hurt him and to be courageous in a good and kind way. 

You will do well, I hope your wife will begin to see that you are not against her, but are with her. I hope the eyes of her heart will be open to your loving actions.


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## Oatmeal (Mar 30, 2012)

Just wanted to say that I went through something like this with my wife after we had our kid: increased harshness, emotional outbursts, not caring about my feelings, etc. In my case, I don't think a personality disorder like BPD had anything to do with it. It is just common for mothers to get some of their emotional needs from their bond with the new baby and to kind of push their husbands to the side a bit. 

I (stupidly) put up with it for about two years, thinking that it was my duty as a husband and father to ride out some tough times. Everybody tells you that "everything will change when you have a kid", so I wasn't sure what exactly to expect. However, when things didn't improve in that two year time span, I just made it a huge issue and confronted her about it several times. I didn't know about the 180 at that point, but I did similar things. It was rough, but things have improved a lot since then.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

bwall said:


> Thanks for your support. It is exhausting, but it's worth it if I can get us all to the point where we are all happy and healthy.


bwall,

You would be surprised how many people experience something like this. Your wife probably grew up with one of her parents (probably her mom) yelling like this. Growing into adulthood, she was able to develop self control so when you met her, she was a functional adult. The experience of pregnancy or childbirth or having an infant to care for or all these things causes her to revert to her childhood and model the behavior she experienced from her parent(s).

So what to do? I think there must be some kind of pattern of escalation, some kind of trigger, some series of events that consistently occurs before she gets herself into full fit mode. A sarcastic comment, condemnation, scorn, I think if you look carefully and try to remember, you will see a pattern. The time to leave the area is at the first sign. My wife always starts with sarcasm (modeling her mom). She then proceeds (again modeling her mom) through judgemental projection ("you think you're always right") and on into yelling and screaming. My healthy boundary is that I will not allow myself to receive sarcasm. When I hear it, I call it out and I'm halfway out the door. If my wife agrees to de-escalate, we proceed together, if not, I'm all the way out the door. This has diminished our episodes of her yelling and screaming by a factor of ten over the last year.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Having a baby can really mess with your brain chemistry. I've noticed in me and my friends that it tends to bring any psychological issues you've dealt with in the past back up, this time stronger. For me, it was anxiety and panic attacks. 

I also know what it's like to have a spouse who says crazy things. After a while, you start to lose your bearings and become unsure of what to believe. I can't tell you how many times I've secretly wished we had cameras in our house, so I could roll back the tape and show him what he just said. It's hard, but you sound like you're being very pro-active, so hopefully you guys will all be back on the right track soon. I buried my head in the sand for way too long and it didn't help. Good luck to you.


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## Oatmeal (Mar 30, 2012)

northernlights said:


> I also know what it's like to have a spouse who says crazy things. After a while, you start to lose your bearings and become unsure of what to believe. I can't tell you how many times I've secretly wished we had cameras in our house, so I could roll back the tape and show him what he just said.


Yep. My wife's memory is way better than mine normally. So after she had outbursts and we were talking about it, she would disagree with my account of what had happened and depend on her superior memory to gaslight me. I'm not certain that she was doing this on purpose...perhaps she really didn't remember. 

But I started a log of the events as a memory aid to myself. Then I could look at it and say with certainty "No, actually on Nov X, you DID yell at me and say this and then not talk to without acid in your voice until two days later..." Huge help to write down what happened and when. Just be aware that you're writing down your own biased account. It's an aid, not an actual record.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

That's a great suggestion Oatmeal. I'll keep a diary of incidents from my phone.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

My wife just got back and told me she refuses to talk to me until I meet with a psychologist. I told her I thought she was delusional, regarding me starving her etc. She denied that she said it and called me crazy again, then ended by saying 'Well, you didn't give me enough to eat so you did starve me'.

She was lucid, not aggressive. She was very calm. It makes it almost more scary because I see she truly believes that I am a crazy abuser who starved her. My appointment is made for this Friday, so the day after tomorrow. I can see in her reality that she is a saint for giving a monster like me a chance to fix things. 

It hurts so much.


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

Well that sucks and that isn't fair. This psychologist you are going to see, is your wife coming with you? I suggest she does. Because you are going to need someone neutral to hear everything.

Its appalling, I never was that bad, granted I had my moments, but I never accused my SO of being the one with the problem.

I am sorry you are going through this, take it one day at a time. Keep Calm and Carry On!


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

I think and hope she will come with me eventually. I'm praying she will come for my second session. She says she will. 

I'm just not sure how she'll react when the psychologist tells her she has a problem.

*edit* She knocked on my office door and told me that she's sorry and she hopes we can work things out. Another mood swing? I'm not sure. I graciously accepted all that she said and told her I'd do anything to make this work. I'm taking the day off work tomorrow and bringing the little man with me to the zoo or something nice, so that should be able to circumvent any drama until Friday, psychologist day.


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

Yes, that is a mood swing, I had those. I would say and do things and then maybe an hour later apologize for what I did and hope that we could just work on getting things better. 

You basically want to convey that no matter what, you will always love her, but that you want from her is for her to be open with you and communicate, that if she needs your help to ask you and not feel bad about asking. I get it that men can't take hints and that is why we as women need to speak up. 

Hope all goes well the rest of the week. Enjoy your time with your son tomorrow


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bwall said:


> My hope is that I can speak to the psychologist about what is happening, my feelings about it and then to be able to bring in my wife.... I'm praying she will come for my second session.


Bwall, I strongly encourage you NOT to bring your W to the first two sessions. Indeed, I suggest you not tell the psychologist you intend to do couples counseling with him. At the first and second visits, your objective should be to describe what you've been seeing for two years and obtain his CANDID professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Granted, without your W there, the psych will be unable to render a formal diagnosis. That is a small price to pay, however, to greatly increase your chances of obtaining a candid assessment -- e.g., "It sure sounds to me like you may be dealing with...."

My concern is that, once the psych knows your W will be his client as well, he likely will withhold the name of her disorder -- if in fact he suspects she has strong BPD traits. For many reasons, therapists are LOATH to tell a high functioning BPDer -- much less her spouse -- the name of her disorder. One reason is that providing the information almost certainly means the BPDer will immediately terminate therapy. 

Another reason is that, even if the BPDer stays, treatment costs will immediately double because insurance carriers generally refuse to cover any BPD treatments. I am sensitive to this issue because I spent over $200,000 taking my exW to weekly visits -- for 15 years -- to six different psychologists (and several MCs). Significantly, NONE of them ever mentioned to me the name of her disorder. Instead, they used code words like "thought disorder" and spoke only of possible comorbid disorders like PTSD, depression, and anxiety -- all of which ARE covered by insurance because, unlike BPD, they are "clinical disorders" instead of personality disorders. 

My exW's last psychologist saw her weekly for five years and saw me once or twice a month. Every time I asked her for a diagnosis of my exW's issues -- and I asked many times in five years -- she simply replied "I don't believe labels are useful." On my very last visit, when I was far more insistent, she grudgingly conceded that my exW suffered from a "thought disorder." Duhh. That's exactly what BPD is! 



> I'm just not sure how she'll react when the psychologist tells her she has a problem.


As I said, Bwall, the psych likely will not tell her if she is diagnosed as having BPD -- for her own protection. Nor will he tell the insurance company -- or YOU. This is not to say, however, she would not be given a diagnosis. Most BPDers suffer from one or two other disorders in addition to the BPD. A third of BPDers also suffer from bipolar disorder, for example. It therefore is common for high functioning BPDers to be told only about the depression, anxiety, bipolar, or PTSD. 

I therefore believe it is as foolish to rely on your W's _psychologist _for advice during the marriage as it is to rely on her _attorney_ for advice during a divorce. It is important, when you suspect strong BPD traits, to see a psych who is ethically bound to protect only YOUR interests, not HERS. In light of this, Bwall, I offer several suggestions.

*As an initial matter,* if you suspect your W has strong BPD traits, I recommend that you NOT tell her. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Because projection works entirely at the subconscious level to protect her fragile ego, her conscious mind likely will be absolutely convinced YOU are the BPDer. Instead of telling her, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist -- ideally one that you are not seeing for your own IC.

*Second,* I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to abused spouses. (The second-best seller on the same issue is _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me._) If your W actually has most BPD traits at a strong level, you likely will find that this book reads like the story of her life. And, if you ever decide to get a divorce, I suggest you get _Splitting: Protecting Yourself when Divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist_. Both books are written by the same author.

*Third,* I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Staying" board, "Leaving" board, and "Raising a Child when One Parent Has BPD."

*Fourth,* while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York.

*Fifth,* for a more detailed explanation of why BPD information usually is withheld from HF BPDers -- and from their spouses even when they are footing the bill -- I suggest you see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-official-im-getting-divorced.html#post811909.

*Finally*, please don't forget those of us on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers.


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## Oatmeal (Mar 30, 2012)

JoyfulHeart said:


> Yes, that is a mood swing, I had those. I would say and do things and then maybe an hour later apologize for what I did and hope that we could just work on getting things better.
> 
> You basically want to convey that no matter what, you will always love her, but that you want from her is for her to be open with you and communicate, that if she needs your help to ask you and not feel bad about asking. I get it that men can't take hints and that is why we as women need to speak up.
> 
> Hope all goes well the rest of the week. Enjoy your time with your son tomorrow


I disagree completely with this. When your partner is abusing you, which is what this is...you should teach them that what they are doing is unacceptable, not that you will love them no matter what.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I am BPD and diet is essential to me keeping my moods in check. And by diet I mean balance. Cutting out an entire food group makes me irritable, cranky and angry. And yes I've tried because like your wife I wanted to lose weight after having babies.

What I put in my mouth has a direct relationship to my mood. It's taken me several years to figure out what works for me and I can assure you Paleo would not.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Bwall, childhood sex abuse can cause such behaviors. BPD is the extreme of the manifestatiion. Less permanent but equally bad behavior can seem to the spouse to be BPD. Do not get too focused on diagnosis name. Tackle the behavior. Be firm anmd consistent. If she has a hisstory of CSA she must get professional help for it or she will not ever improve or be happy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Bwall, I agree with Oatmeal and Thor that it is important to hold an abusive spouse fully accountable for her bad behavior. Although learning about BPD traits can help you _understand_ her behavior -- if she has strong BPD traits -- it does not _justify_ that behavior. This means it is important that you stop protecting her from the logical consequences of her own bad behavior. She should be allowed to suffer those consequences. Otherwise, you will be an "enabler" who is harming her by destroying all incentives she has to confront her issues and learn how to manage them.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Sounds to me as if she is having problems with her hormones and diet will effect them. I would suggest she see a GP and get it checked out.


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## Liam (Nov 13, 2009)

My wife is bipolar, and it really manifested itself in the couple of years after she had our son. Very difficult times, to say the least, and we were both really young.

Whether it is BPD or bipolar, or even something else, the correct medication will make a huge difference. Going on quite a restrictive diet(Paleo in this case) can definitely aggravate these kinds of conditions for some people. All that added to the hormonal changes from becoming a mother, and you can have yourself a dangerous ****tail that needs to be treated. 

I wish you all the best in your psychologist sessions - I think that can be a positive step that gradually moves things in the right direction and will hopefully lead to the three of you being happy and enjoying your lives together


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Thanks again everyone for your support and advice.
As of this morning she seems to be calm again. I will take Uptown's advice and not tell the psychologist exactly what I hope to achieve and try and get their professional opinion before suggesting that they meet my wife. 
I'll check out those forums and will keep you all updated.
I did some thinking regarding the whole breastfeeding/ starving situation. My wife could only manage a month of breastfeeding and was upset with herself over this. I gave her as much support as I could have at the time. It occurred to me that she is projecting what she feels is her failure upon me. If she can convince herself that the breastfeeding ended prematurely because of me starving her then she is absolved. It ended because our baby didn't latch properly at the beginning and damaged her nipples. As an aside, she didn't really read up on breastfeeding and was very much focused on getting through the birth. I had read a book and watched some videos. She couldn't get him to latch so I suggested the football hold which worked. I had to do the latching every time which was awkward, not emotionally, but physically as she was in bed that whole time. I feel she was bedridden due to depression as she would potter about the house if I was doing groceries and obviously go to the toilet etc.
I have to run. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

Idk, maybe it is the fact that I am new here (although I have been behind the scenes reading for the past 2 months), but I am slightly appalled that the label BPD is being put on this woman that only the OP truly knows.

I understand that there are some of you who have actually dealt with BPD with yourselves or those who are close to you, and sure the OP's wife exhibits the signs you recognize, but how fair is it to give the OP this idea? Maybe I am wrong, but the wife is still a person and does that mean we diagnosis her? Just asking.

I am sure I exhibited a lot of BPD behavior for 2 years, but that doesn't mean that I had it or even still have it. As anony2 says and I agree, it seems to appear more that it is diet and hormone related, not a disorder, especially if she was never like this before pregnancy as the OP has mentioned. Oatmeal, Thor, I do not know if you are male or female, but coming from a female, I can certainly tell you that pregnancy DOES affect your hormones, it can last a month, a year, even two years and beyond if not taken care of. Those of us women who struggle with the mood swings and emotions are not purposely trying to hurt the ones we love, especially when we feel terrible afterwards for our actions. I have to say sometimes it is hard to control, especially if it is not being looked after by a counselor and even anti depressants. It is the spouses who can recognize this and be willing to know that it isn't truly them we lash out at, we have a hormonal imbalance. And the OP's wife seems to simply have that. She wants to work on things, she does recognize that. But believe when I say, having a hormonal imbalance is tough to deal with and it is true we think irrationally.

I do not agree with what the OP's wife has done, some of you call it abuse. Perhaps, in terms of verbal abuse. And I agree that the OP has to stand up and not tolerate that, but how do you expect him to do that? By giving him ideas that it is BPD she has? By doing a 180 on her? I can say for certain that it is a fine line to tread in doing that. Because if she truly has hormone issues, that can blow up in his face.

Oatmeal: In regards to your reply to mine about loving no matter what. Perhaps I failed to mention that you love the person but you stand up to what they do. How can one teach if one is not willing to also show love? Love is a list of actions one also shows, not just an emotion. He needs to stand up and not tolerate being yelled at, or as you say abused, but he also needs to show love, which is being patient, kind, not self-seeking, not easily angered (_this one is tough as the OP's trigger is the shouting, but I have given him some ideas to help this, as we all should do_), it always protects, always hopes, always perseveres, it never fails, it is everlasting. That doesn't mean the OP becomes a pushover, heck no. But that also means he doesn't act aggressively either. He basically goes to his wife and says in a loving manner "Your shouting is not acceptable, the things you say are not acceptable, nor are they true. Right now I am sure you have a lots of emotions that you are feeling, I want to help and understand, but I also need you to calm down and realize that I do want to help and do not want to be hurt. We are married, we are to help one another so that we both can succeed and be happy. I will be with you through thick and thin, but you need to stop this hurt you are causing me, I feel disheartened and much pain. Let's get this solved so we can give our son a happy life and show him that we can overcome anything when we work together". _(or something along those lines)_

Okay sure, how utopia that sounds. But if we gave kindness, mercy, love, held the person accountable in a loving way, I must admit, love can move mountains.

To finish, I really don't want to start a debate, as I said, I am new here, and I really don't want to create tensions. Perhaps consider this a new perspective. I have the experience of the OP's situation, I was his wife in my relationship with my SO. If my SO did not show love and hold me accountable, we would have ended long ago. But because she showed love, stood firm without being aggressive, showed his emotions to show me that what I was doing was hurting him, I could only hold my mouth shut and put everything together and recognize that I needed to do something. So I disagree to be giving the OP the idea that his wife possibly, or more likely to have BPD, maybe she has it, maybe she not, but from everything the OP has said thus far, basically seems to show that it is hormonal (good possibility from pregnancy) and diet related. I do not think we should be self-diagnosing unless an OP of any topic actually comes and say, this is what they have, this is what I was told, this is... etc.. You get the idea


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## JoyfulHeart (Jun 12, 2012)

bwall said:


> Thanks again everyone for your support and advice.
> As of this morning she seems to be calm again. I will take Uptown's advice and not tell the psychologist exactly what I hope to achieve and try and get their professional opinion before suggesting that they meet my wife.
> I'll check out those forums and will keep you all updated.
> I did some thinking regarding the whole breastfeeding/ starving situation. *My wife could only manage a month of breastfeeding and was upset with herself over this. I gave her as much support as I could have at the time. It occurred to me that she is projecting what she feels is her failure upon me. If she can convince herself that the breastfeeding ended prematurely because of me starving her then she is absolved. It ended because our baby didn't latch properly at the beginning and damaged her nipples.* As an aside, she didn't really read up on breastfeeding and was very much focused on getting through the birth. I had read a book and watched some videos. She couldn't get him to latch so I suggested the football hold which worked. I had to do the latching every time which was awkward, not emotionally, but physically as she was in bed that whole time. I feel she was bedridden due to depression as she would potter about the house if I was doing groceries and obviously go to the toilet etc.
> ...


To the bolded part: I can understand how she feels, and if this is how she feels you need to somehow get her to talk about it, whether with you or a counselor she sees. As a woman, breastfeeding is such a close bonding. I didn't get that with my two sons and it hurt inside, I became deeply depressed with my second, he was in the hospital for the first month. My third son I was able to breastfeed for a year and it made a difference to help overcome the depression and emotional issues. But if she is blaming you, that is not fair. But I think she may feel like she is more to blame and feels worthless not being able to.

I agree with Uptown that you shouldn't tell the psychologist first what you expect. If anything you say "This is what is happening, this is how I feel, how can I overcome and better the situation" or something along those lines. Never go into a meeting setup with a predetermined thought (like your wife having BPD for example), just go in for yourself and hopefully the psychologist will be able to give you some ideas and thought provoking words to help you in this journey. I am sure you love you wife so much, and I bet your wife loves you as well. You guys are just going through a tough spot in your marriage right now. (Part of me wishes I was friends with your wife, I feel as though I can relate so much to give her encouragement and ways to help you as well, even though she is struggling, I know what it is like)

Alas, you have a good day. Hold your head up, take it one day at a time. This too shall pass.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

bwall said:


> I did some thinking regarding the whole breastfeeding/ starving situation. My wife could only manage a month of breastfeeding and was upset with herself over this. I gave her as much support as I could have at the time. It occurred to me that she is projecting what she feels is her failure upon me. If she can convince herself that the breastfeeding ended prematurely because of me starving her then she is absolved.


bwall,

I think you are catching on here. When you can clearly understand how the whole denial-projection thing works, you will relieve yourself of your (self imposed) burden of guilt over your wife's feelings and actions and her blaming them on you.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

JoyfulHeart said:


> I am slightly appalled that the label BPD is being put on this woman that only the OP truly knows.


Joyful, no respondant on this thread has claimed that Bwall's W has strong BPD traits. Nobody has attempted to diagnose her. None of us has even met the woman. Instead, Emerald and I have been encouraging Bwall to see a doctor. 

In addition, we have been pointing him to online information about bipolar, BPD, and PPD so that, based on HIS OWN assessment of the symptoms, he can make a prudent choice of what type of doctor to go to. For certain symptoms (e.g., temporary, reactive depression), a medical doctor may be the best place to begin. For other traits (e.g., lack of communication skills), a MC is the place to begin. And for other symptoms (e.g., BPD and other personality disorders), a PhD psychologist is needed.

Being able to spot the symptoms (i.e., red flags) is important because you can easily waste years going to the wrong professional -- or jumping from doctor to doctor or therapist to therapist -- if you choose the wrong type of professional to begin with. This is why hundreds of the leading health centers and hospitals have been providing descriptions of symptoms on their websites for the past 15 years. They know that, when the lay public knows what symptoms to look for, they are much more likely to seek professional help -- and to do so far more quickly -- because they know their situation is very serious. 

Significantly, these health centers and hospitals do not limit their symptomatic descriptions to only _diseases_ treated by medical doctors. They also provide information to educate the public about _mental disorders_. The Mayo Clinic, for example, tells the public the basic symptoms of BPD at Borderline personality disorder: Symptoms - MayoClinic.com.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all of your comments and continuing support. When I first started this thread I would have been delighted with one or two replies, but this has far exceeded what I dared to hope. Strangers on the internet who care!

JoyfulHeart, I'm very mindful of jumping to a diagnosis in the absence of a professional, but I did find Uptown's comments helpful insofar as it opened up the possibility that my wife could be suffering from something rather than her just hiding her mean and cruel true self from me until now, which was what I thought was going on. 

This came as a real relief, although I know and understand that BPD is only a possibility at this stage. I appreciate your concern, but I'm not the type of guy to accuse anyone of anything unless I'm 100% positive. You radiate empathy and I find it a great support. Thank you.

I do see BPD traits in my wife, I also see bipolar traits there too. But, honestly, I could probably cherry-pick some of those traits to anyone I feel hugely aggrieved by, so I know it is hard to remain objective when there's such strong emotions. I just hope that my psychologist will be frank with me as to her opinion of my wife and that my wife will eventually receive help and that we can get through this.

A quick update as to what's happening right now... I came back from my day out with my son and my wife was in a good mood. She kissed me when I came in which came as a surprise. I put my son to sleep and we hung out for the rest of the evening. 

I'm visiting the psychologist today, as I mentioned before. I'm happy to go as I believe it will move this problem forward rather than stagnating, but at the same time I feel somewhat resentful that I'm forced to go - she told me before that if I didn't go then she would not speak to me. I'm conflicted.

She told me last night that she is having some friends over to our house today. They'll arrive before I go to the psychologist and they'll still be here after. I'm not happy about this. What I would have liked to have happened would be for me to come home after the session and discuss with my wife some of what happened. Instead I feel like they'll be talking about our situation from her point of view and that I'll be left to kind of creep around the house until they are gone. I feel like inviting her friends over is almost passive aggressive as I think the time after my session should be spent together, instead I'll have to wait a few hours. Is that selfish of me? 

I haven't talked to her about how I feel. She's still in bed, it's after 10.30am where we are and I've been up since 6.30am playing with our son and he's having his morning nap right now. I'm thinking that when she wakes up I'll give her some time to freshen up and bring it up with her.

I'll let you guys know how the session went.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bwall said:


> I do see BPD traits in my wife, I also see bipolar traits there too.


Bwall, if she has one of those disorders, there is a good chance she has the other too. They sometimes are comorbid. A recent study (pub. 2008) found that about half of the bipolar-1 sufferers have BPD and about a third of the BPD sufferers have bipolar-1. In any event, I wish you the best of luck this afternoon with the psychologist -- and will look forward to your next update.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

After my last post, my wife woke up at 11am and then went for an hour long bath. I told her I wasn't happy about her having her friends over when I was due back from the therapist as I would have liked to have spoken to her about it instead of waiting until later tonight. She called me selfish. I said a selfish person wouldn't let their wife sleep in for the whole morning and then have a bath when they have lots of work to do. She started shouting in from of our son again who started crying. I told her that her shouting was distressing our baby, it was unacceptable and that I was leaving the room for 5 minutes and that would be back. After those 5 minutes were up I came back and she was smoking a joint! Nonstop action in my house.

So the counselling session went well. She talked to me about the possibility of my wife needing medication. Told her I was pretty sure she wouldn't take them. I'm taking that as a sign she does think my wife needs help. Relieving in some ways, sad in others. 

She agrees the starvation thing is concerning. If she can go to the toilet and wipe her bum she can crawl downstairs and get a banana she said. 

Overall, I found the session helpful. She agrees my wife may need help and that I was, by and large, going about things in the right way.

My wife said I was abusive earlier today, then changed it by saying she was in an abusive relationship and then changed again by saying I was indeed abusive. She said it was because I grew up with physically and emotionally abusive parents which is true. I went to counselling and worked for months on my issues. That gave me the strength to confront my parents and we all faced the issues together and got over them. I'm proud of myself and proud of my parents for facing their own issues and apologising. The abuse ended with me and I'm not an abusive person. She knows about this and I felt hurt that she would accuse me of that knowing how hard I worked to get over that part of my childhood. I should note that I brought it up today and told my therapist that I'm open to the possibility that it's true, but that I've had two long term relationships before my marriage and I've never been accused of being abusive and I am still on good terms with my ex's and I feel if it was true then they probably would never talk to me again. 

I told my wife this morning I think she needs counselling way more than I do, but I would never force her to go. I think as long as she's willing to get help I think we will be OK. My next session is on the 30th and that she's hoping my wife will come. I hope so too. I think she was expecting me to be diagnosed with all manners of crazy at this session, which hurts. We'll just have to wait and see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

bwall said:


> My wife said I was abusive earlier today, then changed it by saying she was in an abusive relationship and then changed again by saying was indeed abusive. She said it was because I grew up with abusive parents which is true. I went to counselling and worked for months on my issues. That gave me the strength to confront my parents and we all faced the issues together and got over them. I'm proud of myself and proud of my parents for facing their own issues and apologising. The abuse ended with me and I'm not an abusive person.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Textbook denial and projection



bwall said:


> I told my wife I think she needs counselling way more than I do, but I would never force her to go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This type of comparison is probably not helpful. A better tactic would be telling her how much you like it and how much help you are getting and invite her to come along


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

You're right, it was said out of frustration but it is how I feel.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

JoyfulHeart said:


> Idk, maybe it is the fact that I am new here (although I have been behind the scenes reading for the past 2 months), but I am slightly appalled that the label BPD is being put on this woman that only the OP truly knows.
> 
> I understand that there are some of you who have actually dealt with BPD with yourselves or those who are close to you, and sure the OP's wife exhibits the signs you recognize, but how fair is it to give the OP this idea? Maybe I am wrong, but the wife is still a person and does that mean we diagnosis her? Just asking.
> 
> ...


Nobody is dxing OP's wife. Those of us with experience with bipolar (me) & BPD (Uptown) are giving our opinions based on what the OP is writing.

I've have 2 children, my daughter has 1 & countless friends that have been pregnant & not one of them has treated our husbands the way OP's wife is. Maybe we were a "little" moody & cranky at times but we did NOT verbally abuse our husbands....quite the contrary...we all loved being pregnant.


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## bwall (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi everyone, OP here.

Just an update on what's been happening...

We had our first couples session yesterday. It was ok, I didn't get to say much, my wife did most of the talking. She was describing why she was unhappy, giving brief details of our arguments and then ended with her saying she could not accept that I believe that she is sick.

I explained that I believe she is sick because she believes I starved her and denied her water when she was breastfeeding. Earlier in the thread I explained that breastfeeding only lasted a month and I think that she is projecting her own feelings of failure upon me. Also, I don't see it as a failure, it just couldn't continue, she had mastitis.

She remained steadfast. I starved her. I denied her water. I was adamant, I took good care of her, I was at home the whole time, my whole day centred around taking care of her. I didn't once leave the house for any other reason than to go to the store around the corner. I work from home, give my wife spending money, earn well, cook, clean and mind our child. She also shares in minding our child, but doesn't cook, doesn't clean and she gets work every few weeks as a musician, but the money she gets doesn't contribute to the house.

The rest of the session was pretty much her venting and talking me down every time I tried to say something. I actually felt bullied and it made me realise how dominant my wife can be over me. Now I'm not the type of guy who must be in control or believes he is superior over his wife, but I haven't felt bullied since I was a kid. It was odd. I said at the end of the session that I felt like I had little chance to speak and felt my opinion was drowned out.

When we were leaving the therapist did give me a look that I would interpret as sympathy, she whispered my name as she shook my hand whereas she said my wife's name in a normal tone. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

The therapist wasn't much help. I don't know how I feel about it. Perhaps she felt that my wife needed to vent. She never challenged her about it. It made me feel awful as I had hoped that the therapist would say or do something that would open her eyes a little more.

I would say that after the session, my wife is even colder now to me. It was only my second session and my wife's first session, but I hoped that we would be brought even a tiny bit closer to a resolution or understanding. 

I feel sad and alone. I love my son and cannot bear to be away from him. But I cannot stay in this relationship with my wife's uncontrollable anger and her belief that I abused her in the most horrible way. I know I'm a good guy. I love cooking, I love feeding people. We've got two fridge freezers full of food! Starving someone is just crazy, let alone my wife and child. I know therapy is a long road, but I'm not sure how I feel about this therapist.

Thanks for reading, guys.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

bwall said:


> The therapist wasn't much help.


Bwall, thanks for giving us another update. As I discussed in post #30 above, it is highly unlikely that a therapist -- who is treating BOTH of you -- will tell either of you about BPD if she believes your W has strong traits of that disorder. Hence, if your W is suffering from strong BPD traits, your best chance of obtaining a candid professional assessment is to see a psych by yourself.

Hopefully, your W is only suffering from a hormone change due to the pregnancy and birth. If that is the case, your therapist will not hesitate to tell you (unlike BPD, PPD is covered by insurance and won't scare your W off). By the way, is this therapist a psychologist (i.e., does she have a PhD in psychology)?


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