# Okay, now I need support...I think...



## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

So yesterday in MC she finally states that she just cannot do the things I need (full transparency, full disclosure, etc., etc.). We had had a blowup the night before as I "caught" her deleting text message on her phone and she tried to play it off as being from her cousin, blah, blah, blah. She told me I could look it up on the phone records, and I just told her she doesn't get it. Not one bit, does she understand. I don't care about her cousin, and maybe that is who they were from...but what could ever be in those messages that you NEED to erase? AND we had talked specifically about that issue of NOT erasing messages. She gets mad that she doesn't have any privacy, and that it will never get better. I just told her people with nothing to hide, hide nothing, so I don't understand the problem...

We are going to try and keep things together through the holidays, although I dunno about that. But, I will on my part.

I told our MC almost a year ago, that she wouldn't be able to do the things that needed to be done to fully R, and I suppose having known that, I should have moved on at that time.

I guess you just really hope that the other person will grow up, to some degree. 

We had seperated before and I told her this time I was not leaving the house till it was sold or the divorce was final. I'm not doing that again. We will see what sort of battleground this all becomes before too long.

I DID tell her and our MC (in the most even of tones), that recovery is still within her power. That the things I NEED for full R are not out of the ordinary or beyond reason, as could be evidenced by any book on affairs or groups such as this. My wife's response was that she was not a statistic, but my wife. I told her statistically she is behaving perfectly as someone who doesn't want to really recover and that she is following the script well. She didn't like that.

When she went to the bathroom, the MC told me she just doesn't understand the wall my wife has up and why she absolutely refuses to lower it. I guess that is no longer my problem. 

I am thankful for TAM, at least I know I'm not crazy in sticking to my guns about what I need to fully recover. Sweeping it under the rug is definitely the wrong thing to do, and what we did our first go round. I just need to continue to see this as her choice not to return to the marriage, not mine. Someone please remind me of that from time to time...


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## kindi (Apr 28, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I just told her she doesn't get it.
> 
> I just told her people with nothing to hide, hide nothing
> 
> I DID tell her and our MC (in the most even of tones), that recovery is still within her power.


See the 3 things that I quoted you saying above?

Those three things are the height of lameness and gives all the power to your wife when she really deserves none and by giving her the power she loses interest in doing what you want because she isn't all that attracted to you.

Stop giving her the reasons why she should be doing all these things and just tell her it's over. 

If you don't understand why you don't need to justify your reasons and why you shouldn't let her know that youre ready willing and able to take her back anytime she cleans up her act, then think about it until you do.


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## lionsguy22 (Dec 2, 2012)

Well she made her choice. She picks to be secretive over trying for an R. So Divorce is really the only option.
If you cave now it would be the first step in being a doormat.

Man your battle station. You stuck to your guns and she refused the offer. Its not your fault at least your tried.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She has not been taking you seriously. Let her know that you are serious by filing for divorce as soon as possible.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Doc, the next time you see her erase a text, take the phone from her, go to your car, put the phone behind a front tire, back up onto it, turn your steering wheel left and right until you're sure its pulverized, pull up a little, get out of the car, pick up the largest piece, hand it to her and say; "this is our marriage". Then leave.

T


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Doc, the next time you see her erase a text, take the phone from her, go to your car, put the phone behind a front tire, back up onto it, turn your steering wheel left and right until you're sure its pulverized, pull up a little, get out of the car, pick up the largest piece, hand it to her and say; "this is our marriage". Then leave.
> 
> T


Don't leave, just start tossing her stuff out on the lawn! She leaves!


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## DevastatedDad (Oct 2, 2012)

You are married.
She is not.

Sorry.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

DevastatedDad said:


> You are married.
> She is not.
> 
> Sorry.


Perfectly summed up in 7 words.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Did you do a full all out exposure on her affair?


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Doc, the next time you see her erase a text, take the phone from her, go to your car, put the phone behind a front tire, back up onto it, turn your steering wheel left and right until you're sure its pulverized, pull up a little, get out of the car, pick up the largest piece, hand it to her and say; "this is our marriage". Then leave.
> 
> T


Tony, there are a few posters here I really enjoy reading. You are one of them. If nothing more than the blunt truth. Too bad I woud be the one paying for the phone... I think the leave part is valid though. Tough love. Thank you everyone. Even at where I am with forgiveness and holding onto stuff, etc., I find it hard to really say "It's over". I just need to keep reminding myself that she is the one who won't come to the table, not me...


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

theroad said:


> Did you do a full all out exposure on her affair?


fow what it was worth. the POSOM was a cop using different phones so it was really hard to nail this down for a long time! The first D-day (I know...) they both begged me to not expose to the OMW as our town is small and it would cause quite a stir (I didn't know about TAM or really anything at that time, I was just reeling!)

After I caught them a second time, I exposed. I don't think she has ever forgiven me for this. I doubt she ever will. Oh, well. I guess. 

I think often that I will one day look back on this and question why I stayed as long as I did with someone who CLEARLY was not into truly salvaging the marriage. But then I see my kids faces and remember the good times...which were the majority of the marriage!


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

I think filing D is the way to go. I did once stbx wouldn't stop the A after 3 months out on her own, then moving in with him. It's final in 77 days (not that I'm counting) and I am appreciating the peace of mind. No more worry about what she's up to!

I realized two things about my wife, she's extremely selfish and she had no respect for our marriage. Same goes for yours.

I see that you have children, that's rough especially since you plan to move to another community. Thing is, you can't let her walk all over you like this. She isn't the same woman you married. Save yourself, the way you're living is a slow death. I've been there. You can do this.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Doc I am truly sorry. Read again what you just wrote:
"After I caught them a second time, I exposed. I don't think she has ever forgiven me for this. I doubt she ever will. Oh, well. I guess." 

She is unwilling to forgive YOU for outing her A, after being caught a second time. Good god. You so totally deserve more from this life than that.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

To heck with YOU leaving. SHE leaves. Kick her unremorseful cheating butt right to the curb.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Transparency is not much to ask for. I'm sure you are as transparent as she wants you to be because you're not hiding anything. She's not transparent because she's doing things outside of the marriage.

Wheather you are hoping for recovery or divorce, your nest few steps are the same as she's crossing the line in the sand. You have to file papers and become a rock in your position of the things you know are right like transparency. I'm sure you said be transparent or it won't work and she's not being transparent so it's your move now.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> To heck with YOU leaving. SHE leaves. Kick her unremorseful cheating butt right to the curb.


Doesn't really matter who will leave, in the end. I make sh!t loads of money, but not enough to support two households like this. Financially I will come out ahead. When I was out of the house for 6mos, I lived in a converted garage. Hahahaha! Respected surgeon in the community in a drafty garage! Sure kills the image of the surgeon on the hill doesn't it? HA! But I came from nothing, I was happy in that garage with nothing. I just need my kids...


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Transparency is not much to ask for. I'm sure you are as transparent as she wants you to be because you're not hiding anything. She's not transparent because she's doing things outside of the marriage.
> 
> Wheather you are hoping for recovery or divorce, your nest few steps are the same as she's crossing the line in the sand. You have to file papers and become a rock in your position of the things you know are right like transparency. I'm sure you said be transparent or it won't work and she's not being transparent so it's your move now.


As I have said before, right after finding out about her A, I did have an EA with someone who actually was the biggest champion for the marriage. Oddly, our secret relationship was not about our relationship (EA relationship) but about my marriage and how to deal (still a secret, so still an EA, I get it). But I have been transparent as all get out about that one, she read all my texts, talked to her on the phone a few times and we stopped all contact when she asked us to....not that she stopped her contact with OM...

One day I should probably write my story out from beginning to end. Maybe after the end 

I hate writing stuff down sometimes...really makes me see what I putz I have been. What happened to me? When we met, I was dating three other women, from the same group! The first time she said she loved me, I broke up with her to get away. Where did THAT guy go?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

doc_martin said:


> When she went to the bathroom, the MC told me she just doesn't understand the wall my wife has up and why she absolutely refuses to lower it. I guess that is no longer my problem.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

QUOTE]

Your MC is either dumb or a liar.

Your wife wants her privacy to keep secrets. A 5 year old would know that.[/QUOTE]

I have thought both of these things, honestly. when apart I think she panders whomever is in the room. when together she seems to only be interested in the "root" of the feeling. not the affair, but the why? 

So last time I spoke up and said "Okay, she said she had the affair becasue of resentment for me making her go back to work, how is that going?"

I don't think either one of them like me very much at that point. Kinda why I stopped the IC. Just didn't feel like it was doing anything for me, and not seeing any push in MC.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

doc_martin said:


> Doesn't really matter who will leave, in the end. I make sh!t loads of money, but not enough to support two households like this. Financially I will come out ahead. When I was out of the house for 6mos, I lived in a converted garage. Hahahaha! Respected surgeon in the community in a drafty garage! Sure kills the image of the surgeon on the hill doesn't it? HA! But I came from nothing, I was happy in that garage with nothing. I just need my kids...


It's the principle of the thing. She should be the one getting inconvenienced, not you! Besides, it's what I did 

Oh, and you might as well quit wasting money on MC too.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey Doc

Isn't it amazing how you can make life and death decisions for a patient on the table but you cannot make the decision to kill your marriage.

You know it is time to go to 50,000 feet and make those decisions from a detached point of view.

Very sorry she does not respect you. Also sorry you married a dummy. Who would trade a surgeon, a good Dad for a married cop.

Now she deserves not have you support her and work to support herself.

Consider yourself reminded.

HM64


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> It's the principle of the thing. She should be the one getting inconvenienced, not you! Besides, it's what I did
> 
> Oh, and you might as well quit wasting money on MC too.


Her inconvenience factor is going to be huge. Even with child support and alimony she is going to be strapped. I was a cheap date, so to speak. So now that I will get to keep half, as opposed to her spending her half and mine already, she is going to be up the creek without a gucci paddle. 

MC is through my work (free). I was paying for someone but she accused her of having a "thing" for me cause she wouldn't let her get away from the fact that she caused all of this...


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Her inconvenience factor is going to be huge. Even with child support and alimony she is going to be strapped. I was a cheap date, so to speak. So now that I will get to keep half, as opposed to her spending her half and mine already, she is going to be up the creek without a gucci paddle.
> 
> MC is through my work (free). I was paying for someone but she accused her of having a "thing" for me cause she wouldn't let her get away from the fact that she caused all of this...


Yep Doc time for her wake up call and for you to find a hot nurseafter the divorce of course


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> MC is through my work (free). I was paying for someone but she accused her of having a "thing" for me cause she wouldn't let her get away from the fact that she caused all of this...


Oh Doc

She needs a good hit over the head with a 2x4.

When you are single there will be many ladies having a thing for you.

She is still spewing fog babble. Yep, she is in contact with POSOM still.

HM64


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Oh Doc
> 
> She is still spewing fog babble. Yep, she is in contact with POSOM still.
> 
> HM64


I wonder about this. But she is sure depressed all of the time. And I do know where she is most of the time, now. So if she is, it is with a prepaid phone as all other avenues are blocked/monitored. Personally, I could not live like this if I only got to see/talk to my wonderful, caring, perfect, AP a few minutes here and there. Hmmm, maybe that is why she is depressed. :scratchhead:


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I hate writing stuff down sometimes...really makes me see what I putz I have been. What happened to me? When we met, I was dating three other women, from the same group! The first time she said she loved me, I broke up with her to get away. Where did THAT guy go?


Chances are when you pull away, decide you've had enough, and start moving away from the marriage, she will start chasing you again like in the beggining. People tend to want what they can't have or what they think they are about to lose. This would be a good time to evaluate if you really want to consider recovery as the sequence may just play out again later.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I read your older post where you mention it's like the fires of love were kicked and spread around and now you're looking at the cooling embers. I thought that was a great analogy.

The key to rebuilding is finding some way to gather the embers back and stoke them. No way you can do this when your wife is still holding back or lying to you. Sounds like she is still caught up in the fog of her affair.

When you separated for 6 months - how did you keep the fire (to continue your analogy) burning to a point where you moved back in? I've been separated for two months and the fire is dimming rapidly every day. It's like my STBXW is Smokey the Bear - peeing all over the embers. How did you do it, or why did you move back? 

Would you do it again (i.e. move back in), knowing what you know now? Perhaps that is part of the answer?


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I wonder about this. But she is sure depressed all of the time. And I do know where she is most of the time, now. So if she is, it is with a prepaid phone as all other avenues are blocked/monitored. Personally, I could not live like this if I only got to see/talk to my wonderful, caring, perfect, AP a few minutes here and there. Hmmm, maybe that is why she is depressed. :scratchhead:


I don't think they need to maintain contact to stay in the fog. Just wanting to go back or pining over the lost AP will probably maintain the fog for some time.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I wonder about this. But she is sure depressed all of the time. And I do know where she is most of the time, now. So if she is, it is with a prepaid phone as all other avenues are blocked/monitored. Personally, I could not live like this if I only got to see/talk to my wonderful, caring, perfect, AP a few minutes here and there. Hmmm, maybe that is why she is depressed. :scratchhead:


Or maybe she is depressed be cause she knows you are confident, stronger preparing to move on without her.

If you guys are talking (no 180) I think you should sit her down.

Tell her you see she is depressed. Have no desire to pull it out of her and hope she opens up to you. 

If she does not, tell her you are thinking of Divorce since you have no desire to live like this and without her being totally honest you feel it is time to move on to new relationships.

WHat do you have to lose?

Can I ask what made you move back home? Did she pursue you?

DId she ever see any future with the POSOM?

Her Affair sounds like it had no rhyme or reason to it. Did she ever get to the root of it and tell you why she chose to cheat on you???


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I read your older post where you mention it's like the fires of love were kicked and spread around and now you're looking at the cooling embers. I thought that was a great analogy.
> 
> The key to rebuilding is finding some way to gather the embers back and stoke them. No way you can do this when your wife is still holding back or lying to you. Sounds like she is still caught up in the fog of her affair.
> 
> ...


We actually were talking more during the time when I was out of the house. Calm, decent conversations. And I felt that we actually MISSED each other. We were still in MC. I had moved out after I had caught her for the second time, so they cooled things a bit (unknown to me at the time). When the end of six months were up (my own timeline to see how I felt about R) I moved back in. Within a week of moving back in, I discovered that she had maintained contact with him, albeit sporadically...but NC means NC, right? I felt horrible for my kids to think about just getting back in the house and leaving again. They were SOOOOO happy daddy was home.

So I basically told her from that moment on that she had to do the heavy lifting and that I wasn't going to do sh!t until she proved she was making her way back to me. NC was a must and that is when everything got put on severe lockdown in terms of phone, computer, etc. 

In my mind, I told myself that even if she doens't come through, our children will get to see us drift apart and not this cataclismic rift we had been producing before when I was just pissed all the time. Now I am in a much better place. Outwardly I am as calm as a cucumber, and that in and of itself drives her nuts. She told me yesterday that she hates how I can just "shut off" my emotions.

So, of course knowing what I know now...I would have left in 07 after the first EA and saved myself a LOT of pain. Or even in 2010 after DDay#1, 2, or 3. It is what it is. I can't do anything else about not being strict/stern/knowledgeable enough about what happened in the past. Hindsight is truly 20/20.

I want to leave this being able to tell my children that I turned over every stone to try and fix this. In the end, I could look at it as almost two years totally wasted on false R, or I could look at it as a learning experience. If I were an expert on how to expose/recover from an affair, things may have ended up differently. Who knows? I made a lot of mistakes trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I won't beat myself up over it. I can't see it does good except to serve as a learning tool. I guess people really don't change unless they REALLY want to. And when they do, it must be pretty obvious. Cause what she is doing is a lot like what she has always done...rug sweep.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I want to leave this being able to tell my children that I turned over every stone to try and fix this. In the end, I could look at it as almost two years totally wasted on false R, or I could look at it as a learning experience. If I were an expert on how to expose/recover from an affair, things may have ended up differently. Who knows? I made a lot of mistakes trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I won't beat myself up over it. I can't see it does good except to serve as a learning tool. I guess people really don't change unless they REALLY want to. And when they do, it must be pretty obvious. Cause what she is doing is a lot like what she has always done...rug sweep.



I'm in exactly the same place. Spent 3 years on false R without truly getting to the meat of the problem. But I can look myself in the mirror every morning knowing that I have done everything I could to try to rebuild our relationship. But I know that I can't do it myself. My wife is the same - wants to pretend it never happened. I guess for our wives it's easy and preferable to do that when you are the DS.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

What it is you tell your wife you need her to do to recover/reconcile?


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

thebadguy said:


> What it is you tell your wife you need her to do to recover/reconcile?


1.complete NC (something she obviously has problems with). and if she sees him even, she is to tell me, since we live in the same town, they go to the same gym she teaches at, we have acquantences in common, our kids know each other and are friendly to each other, etc. 

2.complete transparency, I do have all of her passwords and the phone records passwords. She does have a seperate bank account that she "occasionally" gives me the monthly statements for (she doesn't online bank, and conveniently has "lost" all of the statements during the time I KNOW she was contacting him). When I do ask for them it is more of a "ARRRGG! FINE! Here they are! Happy now?" type of reaction. I have never found anything there, but her reluctance to even offer them up without asking is why I continue to ask. Which is similar to how she tells me about her day. Not in a loving way, but as in a "I am going to the mall today, if you really must know" kind of way. I have asked her to stop the drama, it doesn't help. Honestly, I could GPS track her phone, and have done so in the past with mixed results. It is how I discovered Dday #3...

3.I am a need to know guy. Sorry. Just the way it is. I realize somethings about her story cannot be unheard once they have been spoken. My mind is horrible for the mindmovies. Or I should say I am very creative.  I am not really interested in knowing if his d!ck is bigger (although the though crosses my mind, but that is worthless information), but I do need the huge holes in her story to be mended. This she WILL NOT do. She states she gave me the whole story that I need. She laments that she promised to tell me the story one time and after I needed to move past it and forgive her. The first clarification question I asked her a few days later turned up a lie. But she won't talk about it. Period.

Clearly she doesn't understand much about forgiveness...I have forgiven much of what I know about. I am working on the other stuff that I know is left, lest it eat at me forever. That has nothing to do with our reconciliation. But I can't forgive the "?", could you?

I really feel her reluctance to fill those holes are from two possible sources 

1.she feels that continuing to go over the story just means it will never end, or go away (which it never will go away, but honestly, once you get the answer for something, it rarely does much good to ask again.) 

i.e. "was his d!ck bigger?", 
"Yes"
Okay, I guess we would be done with that line of questioning...:rofl:

2.She has a "manageable" story right now. without too many variables to try and contain. Going over it again and again, raises the possibility of making a mistake in recall. I find this much more likely the case. As I had stated, I had an EA after I found out about her A, my mind was just gone at that point and I was grasping for anything or anyone. Great. I have tried to get her to talk about it. She won't. I have told her the whole story as she would let me. I have NO problems with her asking me questions now or ten years from now. I told her I could probably still give her wording to conversations. It is vey easy to remember the truth. Trying to remember what lies go where is a little bit tougher. And I really think she is worried about getting tripped up. Maybe because her two affairs were with 1.lawyer, 2.cop that she thinks deny, deny, deny until proof is brought forth is the way to go. What I think she misses is that holding those lies in eat most people away from the inside out. It is a cancer that must be cut out (sorry about the medical analogy). 

I think living with a lie is much harder than many people realize, and eventually takes it's toll. Those who can lie to the person they love everyday for the rest of their lives are a rare breed, and I do not envy their special talent...


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

WOW! your wife wants reconciliation on _her _terms. 

why are you guys still interacting with this POSOM and his family??? there should be NC whatsoever.....even if the kids can't hang out.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

So many people who have A's say that they simply compartmentalized it. I've always thought that people who have this ability, this 'putting something cognitively dissonant in another box,' can also easily compartmentalize uncomfortable truths about the A. They shove it all down and back & they don't want other people opening up those boxes.

I also think that the longer something stays buried, the easier it is for the WS to create something more palatable in his/her mind out of the nasty truth. After all, if you don't know the details, how will you be able to naysay her when she lies to herself?

Have to ask, though, doc. Do you love her?


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> WOW! your wife wants reconciliation on _her _terms.
> 
> why are you guys still interacting with this POSOM and his family??? there should be NC whatsoever.....even if the kids can't hang out.


we don't. Our kids don't know (at least they don't know with whom we have had our problems). Their kids must be in the same boat. I can get that, why include your kids in the mud slinging? It isn't their fight. They are just kids.

I don't ever seem to run into him...thank god, that would probably go south pretty quick. I'm not the typical "doctor" type. I ride a stripped down Harley. Drive an old truck. Build my own hot rods and have NEVER been intimidated by another man...Just how I was raised.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> Have to ask, though, doc. Do you love her?


I do. Her affair hasn't changed that. I am not embarrassed of that, either. Being with her has been the best time of my life. I won't rewrite history to make it bad. I made a choice to marry someone and have never regretted that choice. I can choose to love someone and hate the choices they make. I can also choose to love someone and protect myself from further injury. And that is where this is headed now. 

I guess that is why I don't need to do the whole "kick her immediately out of the house" stuff. She will suffer the consequences of her poor choices soon enough. I won't have to impose anything further onto her. I will suffer consequences as well. The consequences of choices I made, good and bad. I accept those as part of life and chances to learn to be a better person in the future. 

At least that is what I am working towards...


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

i didn't mean "telling the kids" or "mudslinging." i meant, why is there any contact at all? isn't this a trigger for you.

her "teaching" at this gym and having interaction with them, at any level, is non-negotiable. i don't see why you've allowed it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Sounds like you have it under control Doc.

I might suggest finding the best lawyer in the State to represent you and not one in your town.

Betrayed spouses sometimes tend to give in to the demands of the cheater just to get it over with. 

I'm not saying "go for the throat" (even though she deserves it) - get an experienced lawyer to protect you and the kids.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> i didn't mean "telling the kids" or "mudslinging." i meant, why is there any contact at all? isn't this a trigger for you.
> 
> her "teaching" at this gym and having interaction with them, at any level, is non-negotiable. i don't see why you've allowed it.


Okay, I get it now. Yes, HUGE trigger for me! The few times I have seen him we have had to leave stuff or they have left stuff before we even got within ear shot. I really don't know how I would handle a face to face, but likely very poorly. I'm the slow to anger type of guy, but once I do, I could carry that anger forever. Forgiveness of my wife is one thing, but I'd love a front row seat to watch karma @ss fVck him with a cactus! :rofl:

I get how the gym thing is a hot topic here, but honestly, the only way to get around this is to move. At the store, at the gym, at starbucks, at baseball, at soccer, etc. It will never end. ever. Thanks, honey.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

that's exactly what i meant.....the triggers. the kids are innocent bystanders in all this, but they are his family and by extension HIM. i just couldn't see myself interacting with them at any level during this tumultuous time.

she should have given up that position from the get-go. i don't think you should move or uproot your life, but the further you distance yourself from these toxic situations the better.


for what it's worth, you're finally handling the situation the way it should be handled. she needs to "own her sh1t."


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> Sounds like you have it under control Doc.
> 
> I might suggest finding the best lawyer in the State to represent you and not one in your town.


I wish I had it under as much control as I sound. Honestly, If I had it under that much control, I probably wouldn't be here. You guys are nice and all, but I would have dropped her like a hot potato and been well into my own recovery a few years by now...

In California, my understanding is you have to have a lawyer who can practice in your county. I have spoken to one. I have told him what I need to protect. I would not be going for the throat, but I did enjoy his comment about her needing to begin working full time ASAP. She has a masters in teaching and works as a personal trainer. Our kids are in school full time, so he said that would need to get fixed since none of my kids are special needs. Ironic how she claims she had the affair because she was mad I MADE her get a job, and now she may need to join the rest of america working full time. Boo hoo... Maybe there is justice after all.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your whole R sounds like a crock of sh!t and a waste of everyone's time.

And that too after a D-day 3 ? 

Your wife does not want to married to you but seems to have a problem telling you about it. Do her a favor.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

his wife was a cake-eater.....safe and sound in a secure marriage with husband with social status, while bangin' a cop on the side. she was in hog-heaven. 

make her pay her own way now, doc.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Your whole R sounds like a crock of sh!t and a waste of everyone's time.
> 
> And that too after a D-day 3 ?
> 
> Your wife does not want to married to you but seems to have a problem telling you about it. Do her a favor.


I guess I could agree with this. It is a very sobering realization to finally come across. I am not sure that I have fully come to it now. I just keep telling myself that if she truly loved me, this would look different than it does. Not my fault. I didn't invite him in. I didn't keep him around. I can only take care of myself and my kids. 

I really do appreciate the tough love. It is what I am able to give everyone else. What I have always been taught. Just now realize how hard the first step is. But you get a little stronger every day.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Oh just get Jessica Dorrell on your hog and you'll feel better although it will cost you better yet get her on the motorcycle eh then again she was with Bobby Petrino


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

cledus_snow said:


> WOW! your wife wants reconciliation on _her _terms.
> 
> why are you guys still interacting with this POSOM and his family??? there should be NC whatsoever.....even if the kids can't hang out.


Cheaters rarely do the heavy lifting to fix things without trying to get out the easy no-consequence way.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Oh just get Jessica Dorrell on your hog and you'll feel better although it will cost you better yet get her on the motorcycle eh then again she was with Bobby Petrino


You know the funny thing about this? I would bet any amount of money that she will be very reluctant to ever ride a motorcycle again...but for some reason, cheaters never have the same aversion....I wish her fiancee good luck.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> You know the funny thing about this? I would bet any amount of money that she will be very reluctant to ever ride a motorcycle again...but for some reason, cheaters never have the same aversion....I wish her fiancee good luck.


Seriously Doc filing now will force her hand to see if she is really showing remorse or not as you know you can stop the process. Limbo just sux. I can't believe that guy Josh Morgan took her back he's a coach now at south carolina and she was seen there


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

doc_martin said:


> In California, my understanding is you have to have a lawyer who can practice in your county. I have spoken to one.


I don't know the laws in CA. It sounds a little weird that lawyers are limited to practice by County.

Even if this is true - it probably does not mean that the lawyer is required to live in that county or even maintain an office there.

Do a little research and find the best/most experience one you can.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I can also choose to love someone and protect myself from further injury...


I know the feeling, damned if you stay and damned if you leave, love is love, it gets taken out of the equation because it's a constant either way; ultimately the decision comes down to what's tolerable and what's not. Sad.

T


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Why does pulling the plug tear a hole in your heart all over again? We have been trying to keep it together just to get the kids through Christmas. That isn't going to happen, now. I had asked her just the other day, if she was seeing anyone (or him still) and if so, could she at least not until we get things settled. 

Yesterday I go to move her curling iron off the bathroom counter after she leaves to work (at the gym) and totally burned my hand. So I text her saying she forgot to turn it off and she texts me back saying "I didn't use it. Sorry if you are having a reaction" 

WTF?!? Then of course, it's all in my mind why she would lie about something so dumb? But when she got home, she was adamant she hadn't used it that morning (which, BTW I KNEW she had as it creaks when you open and close it, and I heard that when she was in the bathroom and I had personally turned it off the night bedfore cause she had blown the fuse working on our daughters hair. So now, I'm just pissed with her effing gaslighting. Like I don't know reality, anymore. I think at one point she called me crazy, and paranoid. 

So I just asked her to leave. we are meeting MC today to work out arrangements for when either of us can be in the house with the kids. 

Merry fVcking Christmas, kids!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Why does pulling the plug tear a hole in your heart all over again?


Well it's like a death. You have an overwelming feeling of impending lost. It was the same for me when my first wife and I divorced and we have two boys so I was feeling tons of guilt as to whether I was trying hard enough or not.

In the end though, infidelity is a cancer and this death was not unforeseen.

I must say that I learned alot and did a better job the second time around of finding a good person as well has knowing how to treat one. Hopefully this will be the case for you. Keep using your head and go through the motions. It's never easy emotionally though at first.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Thundarr, how old were your boys when you divorced? I hate the thought of my kids having to live through this. I don't know of any "perfectly adjusted" kids of divorce. From what I have read it's a bunch of BS that we tell ourselves to validate what we are doing. But in the end, what else can be done?


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Just chiming in here, my first wife cheated on me, we were both in our twenties and we had a 4 and a 3 yo. Trust me, it was a very bad situation with her, no chance of R. As far as my boys, they had a great childhood, they were my life and we have so many great memories. Both are well adjusted men in their twenties, so it can be done.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Thundarr, how old were your boys when you divorced? I hate the thought of my kids having to live through this. I don't know of any "perfectly adjusted" kids of divorce. From what I have read it's a bunch of BS that we tell ourselves to validate what we are doing. But in the end, what else can be done?


My oldest was seven and my youngest was four. We maintained a very amicable parenting relationship though. For example if they were grounded at moms house then it carried over to dads house.

Also they never heard me say a nasty thing about their mom and our divorce even though I didn't think very much of her. She was still their mother.

My Oldest just got out of the Marines as a sergeant and years of electronics training which an achievement for only one enlistment and he's moved back home (about 15 minutes away) with his wife and three kids and number four on the way. My youngest son is currently a junior at Clemson majoring in Mech Engineering. I think they've done well. Not just academically either.

I think divorce is more difficult when they are older so I think it was better sooner than later. I can't stress how important I thought it was for us to team up in raising them and to have a unified front.

Now my ex married the OM, so it was not something I prefered but if raising our children to be men and women is not the highest job we have in life then I don't know what is.

Now they're grown I don't have to deal with the ex but rarely which I nice.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Doc, the next time you see her erase a text, take the phone from her, go to your car, put the phone behind a front tire, back up onto it, turn your steering wheel left and right until you're sure its pulverized, pull up a little, get out of the car, pick up the largest piece, hand it to her and say; "this is our marriage". Then leave.
> 
> T


I do not cry, at least not at much but this is so accurate, so telling, it had me weeping. Tony said it better than I ever can. She isn't giving you what you need, what you have a right to expect.

She leaves, you stay. She had the opportunity to make a marraige, several times and she couldn't do it. I am so sorry that it didn't work out.

Hugs,

Lu


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> QUOTE]
> 
> Your MC is either dumb or a liar.
> 
> Your wife wants her privacy to keep secrets. A 5 year old would know that.


I have thought both of these things, honestly. when apart I think she panders whomever is in the room. when together she seems to only be interested in the "root" of the feeling. not the affair, but the why? 

So last time I spoke up and said "Okay, she said she had the affair becasue of resentment for me making her go back to work, how is that going?"

I don't think either one of them like me very much at that point. Kinda why I stopped the IC. Just didn't feel like it was doing anything for me, and not seeing any push in MC.[/QUOTE]

Oh flaming heck. Who cares who likes you??? The only person who had to like you is the guy you live with and that's the guy who stares at you in the shaving mirror each morning.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Why does pulling the plug tear a hole in your heart all over again? We have been trying to keep it together just to get the kids through Christmas. That isn't going to happen, now. I had asked her just the other day, if she was seeing anyone (or him still) and if so, could she at least not until we get things settled.
> 
> Yesterday I go to move her curling iron off the bathroom counter after she leaves to work (at the gym) and totally burned my hand. So I text her saying she forgot to turn it off and she texts me back saying "I didn't use it. Sorry if you are having a reaction"
> 
> ...


Oh wow. She's gaslighting you about curling irons??? No more. Really. So, she had to go to work? Who damn well cares, we all flaming well have to. Jeez, this gets me. When I invited my ex to leave, I marched into the local store the same day and begged for a job - any job because the ex had cleared the bank account before I invited him to leave. I worked my tail of 6am til 10pm, jus to keep a roof over my kids' heads and I had to deal with telling them that 'Daddy has done some silly things but he still loves you...' 

This woman you married is a piece of work. Sorry. I know you still love her but really, if she is going to have to find time to do a little work, well that's just tough sh!t.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Louise7 said:


> I have thought both of these things, honestly. when apart I think she panders whomever is in the room. when together she seems to only be interested in the "root" of the feeling. not the affair, but the why?


I suspect good therapists are not common. Many of these guys pursued psychology to figure them selves out. No thanks. Now if they could clone Dr Phil, or Dr Harley (his needs her needs dr harley).


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Since she has been seeing him at the gym the affair was never over. NC is an absolute must for reconcilliation and there was never no contact. They just got better at hiding it. One poster here found out the wife was bringing her lover into the basement after he went to sleep. They're still at it you just haven't caught it.

JMHO

Did you ever check to see if she was deleteing her cousins message?

The reason she lied about the curling iron was because she thought you realized she was fixing herself up for the POSOM.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Since she has been seeing him at the gym the affair was never over. NC is an absolute must for reconcilliation and there was never no contact. They just got better at hiding it. One poster here found out the wife was bringing her lover into the basement after he went to sleep. They're still at it you just haven't caught it.
> 
> JMHO
> 
> ...


I think you are probably correct. We are beginning mediation after the first. She is taking the kids for a few days to the snow, then she takes possession of her new leased house. Her affair will certainly escalate after that. Looking back over the last few months, I am realizing more of the little things that aren't adding up, again. 

In a way, I am glad. She will finally get to ride this pony right into the ground. It is obviously what she has been after since she first started this bullsh!t. 

My next question is, if I truly feel the affair is going on, should I even bother telling the OMW that it is still likely happening? I feel bad for her. But honestly, I don't know if that is a good idea. And I don't know if I have the energy to do it any more. As long as the STBXW is "happy" the divorce may go more smoothly. If she is pissed I have spoiled her "action" yet again, things may get ugly. I guess I could always wait until the divorce is final, and then let her know. You know, sometimes I get mad at the OMW for being so dumb about all of this stuff, too!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you taken the affair to the police department internal affairs office and reported the cop as a lying piece of human feces?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

doc_martin said:


> My next question is, if I truly feel the affair is going on, should I even bother telling the OMW that it is still likely happening? I feel bad for her. But honestly, I don't know if that is a good idea. And I don't know if I have the energy to do it any more. As long as the STBXW is "happy" the divorce may go more smoothly. If she is pissed I have spoiled her "action" yet again, things may get ugly. I guess I could always wait until the divorce is final, and then let her know. You know, sometimes I get mad at the OMW for being so dumb about all of this stuff, too!


My belief is you should cause as much pain and suffering for the OM as legally possible.

Make the b1stard pay dearly for walking in your garden.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Have you taken the affair to the police department internal affairs office and reported the cop as a lying piece of human feces?


Would that even do anything? What do they care?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

doc_martin said:


> Would that even do anything? What do they care?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually many do care because there is an expectation of moral standards for officers.

It also looks bad when/if it blows up on the news.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Actually many do care because there is an expectation of moral standards for officers.
> 
> It also looks bad when/if it blows up on the news.


Don't make it easy for them doc and get yourself a shark lawyer asap. Make it very uncomfortable for the both of them it won't matter in the divorce 50/50 split with kids and assets anyway.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Would that even do anything? What do they care?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What's it going to cost you to report him to the PD?

A phone call? A 15 min meeting ?

And tell the OMW again.

Do whatever you can, whenever you can to mess with POSOM.

You owe him less than nothing.

And let your lawyer know that your'e talking to the PD.

You don't want an arrest on trumped up charges.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

i think you _should _inform this woman of your current status(divorcing). let her know you won't be keeping tabs on the whereabouts of your wife anymore. you don't know what she's up to, or who she's seeing. just as a courtesy.

she needs to be extra vigilant from now on concerning the affair going underground.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

So that is exactly what I did. I got all the goodies I need to nail that coffin closed. Called his wife today and layed all the gory details for her and told her that I'm out, rear view mirror time. And that she now has the torch passed to her if she wants to try to keep them apart. Good luck! 

Newbies, please take heed to the wisdom here on TAM. You are not crazy! You are not imagining things! The pit of your stomach is correct!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> So that is exactly what I did. I had the VAR in the car for the last few weeks and got all the goodies I need to nail that coffin closed. Called his wife today and played all the gory details for her and told her that I'm out, rear view mirror time. And that she now has the torch passed to her if she wants to try to keep them apart. Good luck!
> 
> Newbies, please take heed to the wisdom here on TAM. You are not crazy! You are not imagining things! The pit of your stomach is correct!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What did your STBX say when you told her this?

Are you ok?
.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

You seems too nice At least now do something to expose the OM to the Police department he works. Dont expect that they will give you some medal its for revenge purely for revenge. Let them know what he is capable off.
At least throw your nice mans face for sometime else you are going to get screwed in your a$$ by OM and your wife i your divorce. Your nice mans face showed them Really how weak you are, they used it for continuing their A right in front of your nose.

Actually reading your story made me pissed not at her but at you. You thrown the marriage out of the window by your passiveness and being lovey dovey instead of being a tough guy who knows what he needs.

I am not saying you got the best wife. with D you are not loosing something, but actually you will be faaaar better without a sh!t like her as your wife.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Doc go to the police station and file a formal report even if they do nothing it's on the record.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> So that is exactly what I did. I had the VAR in the car for the last few weeks and got all the goodies I need to nail that coffin closed. Called his wife today and played all the gory details for her and told her that I'm out, rear view mirror time. And that she now has the torch passed to her if she wants to try to keep them apart. Good luck!
> 
> Newbies, please take heed to the wisdom here on TAM. You are not crazy! You are not imagining things! The pit of your stomach is correct!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doc,

Don't kick yourself for trying to save your marriage. I admire your willingness to give it a shot.

Your wife actually did you a favor. She provided you with "no doubt about it" exit motivation and now you shouldn't have any second thoughts or doubts about moving on without her. That hopefully will help you put her in the rear view mirror with no regrets.

Take care of yourself and stay with us for support.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

sounds like this affair went underground.


i never understood why you let her keep that training job where she still interacted with OM's family...... BIG MISTAKE! this was a half-assed attempt at NC.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Because it didn't matter. This town is too small. They found each other anyway. It's just too easy. And neither one of them wanted it to end. So no matter what, it was gonna just keep going further underground until they decided to stop...
Or until I left, which I have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

So you know the affar is continuing? Have you told her and his family and friends they are still hooking up?


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

OK. I have been away from this thread for a couple of weeks and just now caught up.

In case I missed it, I will urge you to report the POSOM to his superiors and file a formal complaint. 

He could get disciplinary action if they find he did her on duty or he used official equipment to communicate or expedite the affair.


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> OK. I have been away from this thread for a couple of weeks and just now caught up.
> 
> In case I missed it, I will urge you to report the POSOM to his superiors and file a formal complaint.
> 
> He could get disciplinary action if they find he did her on duty or he used official equipment to communicate or expedite the affair.


Amen to that. 

Doc, please file a complaint against this a$$hole. Screw making things nice for the divorce. March in there, tell them his name, tell them what he did and is still doing. It's fact, it's not nice and they need to know. 

When you have done that, then do whatever makes Doc happy. I don't know... ride a bike, play ball in the park, dance all night to really L O U D cheesy music. You did nothing wrong and the Karma bus will be along soon...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Because it didn't matter. This town is too small. They found each other anyway. It's just too easy. And neither one of them wanted it to end. So no matter what, it was gonna just keep going further underground until they decided to stop...
> Or until I left, which I have.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is why BH's are told to move far away from the OM after dday.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Yeah, I offered to move, me! Just pick up and move, set up a new practice and everything. But we are here taking care of her aged parents and they can't move. I guess you could say I was doomed from the start. Doomed by my delayed actions, doomed by circumstance, doomed by a person who just became the embodyment of the exact person you wouldn't want to be married to. Someone who could dead face lie to you thousands of times. Directly and by omission.

Or, you could say all of these things saved me. Do I really want to be married to such a cruel, selfish, weak, and immature woman? Why should I uproot mine and my kids lives because she cannot grow up? To go somewhere else to meet her next affair? No thank you!

So yes, their affair is going full steam again. What I heard on the VAR would have made me sick, if I weren't expecting it. The OMW could only stomach a few short minutes before she had me cut it off. Now the STBXW is livid! I spoiled her parachute! How will she land softly now from leaving me? Well, she will have her nasty friends and cousins to help her. One of her "clients" she trains is fbcking around on her husband and they were both planning on getting out so they could stalk around like college girls. The cousin with whom she was deleting texts with is getting divorced, so my best guess is she knows everything and is happy to have my STBXW along for the ride with her. Misery DOES love company!

As for the OWM, she was just floored again. And she has asked me to not blow the top off of this, just yet. She says she needs to decide what she wants to do And can't handle the humiliation. I told her that she should let is both blow this sh!t far and wide. If she has any inkling of saving her marriage she MUST do this. I think she will cave. I begged her to come here for support and to see what she must do. I think she will let him off. I have exposed fully to her family and all of our close friends. But really, she is only pissed about her family. She says I destroyed her parents (me? Hahahaha) and she FORBIDS me to see them any longer (last I checked they were adults). She has new friends who all support such crappy behavior so it won't matter. My friends are true and dedicated family oriented people. 

And as for the gym thing, they started their affair before she started working there, and I guess the OMW told me he doesn't go there often (but who knows?). They were planning a trip to Vegas in march for one of his conferences. I hope they still find a way to go. I hope they end up together. They deserve each other! 

As for the reporting, still on the fence if I care. 

And she is now threatening me about the legality of the VAR stuff. I said go ahead and have me arrested. Will be tough to prove anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You're a tough hombre Doc. Gotta be.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Unfortunately this is really one of those experiences where you are stronger if it doesn't kill you. I have grown sooooo much in myself! And I see how much she has shrank and withered and refused to grow at all! She thinks that if I just disappear and she is free of me, she can just go back to being happy! How shallow is that? At 40, she is looking forward to being someone's mistress, maybe slvt around a little, you know, "freedom". I laugh at that! My kids and I watched movies under a blanket last night with hot cocoa and went fishing today! Great memories! My twenties were fun but I have no desire to relive them at all. 

I wish her luck. Mostly cause she is still going to be a major influence on our kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> And she is now threatening me about the legality of the VAR stuff. I said go ahead and have me arrested. Will be tough to prove anything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Next time she brings this up, BEG her to do it so all her sleazy, adulterous, whorish behavior will then be a matter of public record and scrutiny. BEG, her to debase herself even further than she has already. 

She'll shut up quick enough.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

That's pretty much what I told her. Whatever is on that tape may be played for all to hear. You sure you want everyone to listen to you fbcking in the car?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Unfortunately this is really one of those experiences where you are stronger if it doesn't kill you. I have grown sooooo much in myself! And I see how much she has shrank and withered and refused to grow at all! She thinks that if I just disappear and she is free of me, she can just go back to being happy! How shallow is that? At 40, she is looking forward to being someone's mistress, maybe slvt around a little, you know, "freedom". I laugh at that! My kids and I watched movies under a blanket last night with hot cocoa and went fishing today! Great memories! My twenties were fun but I have no desire to relive them at all.
> 
> I wish her luck. Mostly cause she is still going to be a major influence on our kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Buy her a year's subscription to Couger Life. It's about all she has to look forward to.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> That's pretty much what I told her. Whatever is on that tape may be played for all to hear. You sure you want everyone to listen to you fbcking in the car?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What was her response to that? (LOL, awesome, BTW)


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> My kids and I watched movies under a blanket last night with hot cocoa and went fishing today! Great memories! My twenties were fun but I have no desire to relive them at all.


*Keep it up Doc! When the pain subsides in he future and you have your children’s memories and respect you will not be that affected by your wife.*




> I wish her luck. Mostly cause she is still going to be a major influence on our kids.


She will need some luck as she will find out that when she gets older her resume of being a cheater and betraying her children for her emotional and physical needs is not that desirable. In fact good men will only want her for a sperm depository if that.

Not much demand for old cheating women that do not give a lot of consideration to her children.

*You are a good man Doc!!*


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, if you can tip off the husband of her client that his wife is cheating on him, please do.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm just really getting interested to see of this "fog" thing is real. Cause if it is and she comes out of it...oh, baby! 

When we were in MC she blamed her affair on the resentment she felt cause I wouldn't support her staying at home while the kids were in school to shop and have coffee with her friends, etc. now she will need to get a job! A REAL job, not a hobby! And she's lost her AP, and even if she hasn't, he certainly isn't going to be her knight in shining armor to pamper and take care of her while paying child support and alimony.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Btw, if you can tip off the husband of her client that his wife is cheating on him, please do.


I wish I knew who he was. I don't even know this woman save a few things my STBXW has told me and what I have overheard. Same story, early 40's, struggling with the last bit of youth they have before they are old and withered. No offense to the women here in that age bracket, but seriously, part off job is facial plastics, and it is so sad to see these women struggling to hold onto the last bit of youth! I find a woman who is aging gracefully and willing to accept her place in life to be sexy! None of us are ever gonna get younger. You just have to change your focus! I, for one, am looking forward to my kids getting older, traveling the world and experiencing as much through myself, with them, and through them, as possible. And what will she get? 3-5 years of being a hot cougar before the pressure of age sets in for real. Maybe hook up and get her claws into some second rate man to hopefully grow old with of she doesn't screw that up? I know I going to wake up many years from now and just shake my head I gave her so many chances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Unfortunately this is really one of those experiences where you are stronger if it doesn't kill you. I have grown sooooo much in myself! And I see how much she has shrank and withered and refused to grow at all! She thinks that if I just disappear and she is free of me, she can just go back to being happy! How shallow is that? At 40, she is looking forward to being someone's mistress, maybe slvt around a little, you know, "freedom". I laugh at that! My kids and I watched movies under a blanket last night with hot cocoa and went fishing today! Great memories! My twenties were fun but I have no desire to relive them at all.
> 
> I wish her luck. Mostly cause she is still going to be a major influence on our kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Doc - sorry for what you're going through. Your wife sounds very much like my STBXW. I wonder - was your wife a fairly "good" girl through high school, university? I too, had a normal fun-filled late teens to marriage experience. Dating, parties, alcohol and light drug fueled all-nighters. But then I graduated, got a job and grew up. My wife was always a good student, lived at home, had many friends but was very, very straight - she was a virgin when we met. Her MLC started when she was 42 - 44 and it is like she has regressed to the adolescent she never was. She had an affair at age 45 with a POSOM who was 32 (and a father of a 3 year old and a 1 year old). My STBXW looks great now, but I know from my MIL how she'll look in 10 years of trying to land another man and it ain't pretty. She'll be an aging, pathetic "cougar". Yeah, it's all about "freedom". Freedom to make an eventual fool of herself.

And I like the part where you mention the memories you are building with your kids. That's the part that our ex-wives will never understand. When our kids are older, they'll remember the good times with their Dad and wonder why their Mom was missing for so many of the good times. I almost feel sorry for my STBXW because she doesn't even know what she's missing. 

Stay strong and keep building those good memories!


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Oddly enough, pretty close. You know, we watched a good friend of ours do this exact same thing a few years prior. Good girl, out of the blue saying she was tired of being "perfect" and "the good wife". Had some affairs that played out exactly as my STBXW did. Well, she left, ended up hooking up into a number of short term relationships with younger men (read: used as sperm depository) ended up getting caught up in an affair with a married man, and is now nearly penniless and dating a complete loser! Meanwhile her BH has shouldered the kids, moved on and never looked back. She is in financial ruin on vacations with her lover boys and the convertible BMW, etc. 

Well, when my STBXW first got busted she contacted her, listened to her story and said "that is exactly how I am feeling about my life". And her friend told her to wake up! Don't lose hope. Hold onto any hope there is and work your ass off! Can you say too little too late on her part? But did my STBXW listen? Hell no! She followed her same footsteps and will likely end in the same manner. Her only hope is to lasso some rich guy quick before her looks give out, because she likes shiny things, and expects nice things...cause that's how she rolls (as she said on the VAR)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

sounds like you're doing all you can do at this point.

i agree with the others. you should file a formal complaint to his superiors. not only am i saying this because of the cheating, but because i wouldn't want my hard-earned tax dollars being spent so this [email protected]@hole could chase some tail. he's there to "serve and protect" the citizenry. how can he do that while talking to his mistress, texting, or getting a bj on duty.

F*CKING RIDICULOUS! expose this SOB!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> And I like the part where you mention the memories you are building with your kids. That's the part that our ex-wives will never understand. When our kids are older, they'll remember the good times with their Dad and wonder why their Mom was missing for so many of the good times. I almost feel sorry for my STBXW because she doesn't even know what she's missing.


Cedar and Doc,

The day they are dying in the hospital or the first minute they have a health crisis aNd need help, only to find out that their kids do not offer support or help her.

Only then will she question her actions. 

Too little too late.........


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Cedar and Doc,
> 
> The day they are dying in the hospital or the first minute they have a health crisis aNd need help, only to find out that their kids do not offer support or help her.
> 
> ...


HM64: The weird thing is, my wife does things for the kids - big things. She's the "good-time Mom". Eg - today, I dropped the kids off at her place - they are going to Cuba for 5 days. Fun in the Sun. The kids will love it. Of course, my wife hates winter (my kids love to ski and play in the snow) so the destination suits her. And the kids will build memories on this. They DO love their mother. (BTW, Cuba was a destination because her original plan - to go to Cayman Islands was really a girlfriends trip in disguise).

What I was getting at are the little things which create memories. EG: Like the summer (2009) when my STBXW was having her PA - I trusted her completely so left her in the city so that she could practice (we're both serious golfers and she was competing in the women's club championship). On the very weekend I suspect her PA started (July 1st weekend) while she was fcking around with her younger golfing boy-toy, I was with the kids, lying on our backs stargazing and talking, until midnight. My brother was there with his guitar and their cousins and we were making up stupid songs. They still talk about it. Just laughing and talking and having a good time. My wife doesn't do stuff like this. Simple everyday stuff that creates memories. When she has the kids, their big outings are to the mall to shop and buy stuff. She buys memories.

Another example: Last night, since this will be the first time in their lives that I will miss New Years with them, I declared it early New Years at our house and my daughters and I toasted one night early. They thought it was a riot - we stayed up, watched a movie, drank fake champagne, had late night snacks. All simple, homey stuff. THAT is what my STBXW is missing, and she doesn't even realize it.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Doc Martin
> None of us are ever going to get younger. You just have to change your focus! I, for one, am looking forward to my kids getting older, traveling the world and experiencing as much through myself, with them, and through them, as possible. And what will she get? 3-5 years of being a hot cougar before the pressure of age sets in for real


Actually I hope Doc Martin’s wife gets out of her fog someday soon. Why? *Because she has children and they will always be attached to their mother.*


Doc Martin’s wife (I will call her Cougar for now) is a woman that is not very strong right now and/or has made decisions that represent a person with low character. She has to have someone else validate her worth and ego and her valuation is in the area of youth and sexy. She will become desperate in a few years when she realizes that she is fighting a losing battle.

Also, Cougar will have to deal someday with the fact that her children will always have in the back of their mind that she betrayed their father and her children. That will not go away and will be devastating to a person that has some love for their children. Cougar will have to face the fact someday that she molested the emotions of her children. *Her future is one of pending deep heartache.*

It is in the best interest of the children that Cougar get better. I am not going to start a donation drive for Cougar and I am sure that Doc does not want to start one either. It is just that I think that Doc will recover nicely as he has a good future financially, and he is close to his children. In the later years those two mean a hell of a lot! If Cougar gets better Doc’s children will get some healing.

If Doc progresses in the future, like it appears he will, then the Cougar will be more of a person to pity than a person that stirs up a lot of emotion in Doc. Doc’s children, health, finances, and travels will be the fulfillment of his life. Doc looks forward to his older years but the Cougar is in for a rude awaking when her skins wrinkles, sags and her sex appeal will be about as attractive as root canal. She will then drop her sexy ego and turn her attention more to her children and that is when some real pain will become evident. *The sooner she gets out of the fog and puts more attention to the children the more she will be able to add something positive to her children.*


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Cedar

She thinks she is buying memories. You think she is buying memories.

But you will see in time what the kids truly value.

How old are your kids now?

And do me a favor.

Do not wait around for her to grow up, mature and get sick of screwing around.

Because she sounds like someone that will always be selfish.

HM64


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Cedar
> 
> She thinks she is buying memories. You think she is buying memories.
> 
> ...



my kids are 12 (girl) and 8 (boy). and I do agree she will always be selfish. It seems to be the modus operandi of her family. 

Her two older brothers are both status post marriages x2, both killed via affairs, both times. The younger brother just this year leaves his wife and son to go to Hawaii to work for a year and "live it up" while the divorce is happening. Talk about a kick in the nuts for his poor son! Her older brother same thing, he got so out of control with women and gambling and *****ing it up that the courts gave his second wife sole custody of the kids and he cannot even see them unless it is supervised. So he doesn't even bother. Nice! Two POS dads and 6 messed up kids. Now, there is NO chance my kids are gonna end up in that catagory if I have anything to do about it. She can self destruct if she wants to. I will have no part in it. 

And memories are made, not bought. Sunshine if free! So are laughter, smiles, hugs, and tickles.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

Oh, and here is the possible first ***** in the armour. I got this message last night.

"(doc_martin),
I lay here after watching (our son's name) stare at our photo tucked in his pillow before bed, and snuggle (our daughter's name) as she cries her self to sleep, and I struggle to not hate right now - so I write you this to thank you. 
Thank you for marrying me- for giving me the best years of my life. For allowing me to be the mother of these two wonderful children. For a home full of laughter and love and memories to cherish. 
I won't make excuses, place blame, or fight anymore- it's killed what truly was "picture perfect". I won't pretend that at this point we will be friends, or share much communication right now, but I will say I'm sorry. Sorry we failed, sorry we blamed, sorry we lost. 
Even in all this darkness-as this truly has been my biggest fear, I will forever hold on to what I am thankful for and that is you. You are a wonderful, handsome, and loving man that truly deserves nothing but joy, and I pray you find it. 
I pray one day we will be friends and I pray that for now we put our personal failures aside and do the best we can to support our greatest loves through this. 
So I thank you, for being the love of my life and giving me the only loves I have left. I wish you peace in the new year, and gratitude for what was given to us; a wonderful path that was lost. 
My cousin gave me a ring today and it reads- "if God brought you to it he will bring you through it". I'm going to search deep for that faith, for the darkest days are yet to come, I know. 
I will love you today and everyday and will search deeper for that on the days I think I can't. 
Goodbye for now, my Sunshine, and may one day we both find peace and friendship again. 
Your Wife-"


what I really love is that even in this, she really, really wants to give me half of all the blame here. I love it. Good night!


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Cedar
> 
> She thinks she is buying memories. You think she is buying memories.
> 
> ...



My daughters are 14 and 12. Agree that you can't buy memories - or rather bought memories aren't always as significant as the free ones. During her fog, my wife turned her nose up at simple family outings - like she was too cool for it. A very immature, adolescent attitude. But rather than mope, I just carried on with the kids - which kind of pissed her off and further distanced us. In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have been so kid-centric, given my STBXW more of a chance to do something. Problem is, when she WAS included, she would invariably spend lots of time on her Blackberry - there physically but not mentally. Constantly texting with her toxic group of friends. So I gave up on her for family stuff.

Ironically, now that she is playing full time mother (SINGLE mother) every other week - she is actually being a BETTER mother than before we separated. But she'll still do irresponsible stuff like allowing my oldest daughter to go out or to a sleepover with questionable friends and then try to get my youngest daughter at a sleepover too, so that she is free and can go out. I find this out after the fact. Hasn't happened a lot, but then she hasn't had the kids very much. We just started the every other week business.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Oh, and here is the possible first ***** in the armour. I got this message last night.
> 
> "(doc_martin),
> I lay here after watching (our son's name) stare at our photo tucked in his pillow before bed, and snuggle (our daughter's name) as she cries her self to sleep, and I struggle to not hate right now - so I write you this to thank you.
> ...




Man.... I think your wife and mine are cut from the same cloth.

It's almost eerie. The bad thing is, when the fog temporarily lifts and my STBXW acts a little bit like her OLD self - I always get these pangs of memories of the good times together. Then she'll snap back into the fog the next minute.

Anyway good night and Happy New Year to everyone.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Oh, and here is the possible first ***** in the armour. I got this message last night.
> 
> "(doc_martin),
> I lay here after watching (our son's name) stare at our photo tucked in his pillow before bed, and snuggle (our daughter's name) as she cries her self to sleep, and I struggle to not hate right now - so I write you this to thank you.
> ...


Doc,

The language in this is classically exonerating. She so doesn't want to see her behavior for the tawdry mess it has been. Your kids are very lucky to have you.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> but I will say I'm sorry. Sorry we failed, sorry we blamed, sorry we lost.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Doc. She is fishing for sympathy.

I would not reply to this letter. If she brings it up later downplay any effect it may have had. Call it nice and then that's it.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

keeoing plan b and the meal ticket in place


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Summer4744 said:


> Doc. She is fishing for sympathy.
> 
> I would not reply to this letter. If she brings it up later downplay any effect it may have had. Call it nice and then that's it.


I would not call it nice. I would zoom in on the core issue, that saying she will not hate while fvcking another man is bullsh1t.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

New year's eve. 

Watching the babies breathing rhythmically, peacefully, dreaming the dreams of the innocent. 

A full glass of champagne

Old lang syne playing softly from the TV room

Drunk texting/writing
---------------------------------------
IN the morning? All is back to normal


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally Posted by doc_martin
> but I will say I'm sorry. Sorry we failed, sorry we blamed, sorry we lost.


My guess is that the “WE Failed” is maybe like not keeping your marriage tuned up. Maybe you both failed at that.

But failing to keep an engine in your car tuned up is a lot different than forcing a piston through the cylinder wall. Now you will need a complete overhaul or a new engine.

I can understand Cougar trying to gloss over the issue by using generalities. *The fact remain that she allowed the piston to be put through the cylinder wall and that was what broke the engine (Marriage)*


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Sounds like she read that somewhere and decided to make it her own by adding a few words....in school I tried to pass it off as paraphrasing but my teacher would call it plagerism. But I am a cynic!!!


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Oh, and here is the possible first ***** in the armour. I got this message last night.
> 
> "(doc_martin),
> I lay here after watching (our son's name) stare at our photo tucked in his pillow before bed, and snuggle (our daughter's name) as she cries her self to sleep, and I struggle to not hate right now - so I write you this to thank you.
> ...


Wait... she is sorry both of you failed, not that she cheated? Got to love delusional people. I love how she's talking about putting aside "our personal failures".

Please don’t dignify this nonsense by responding to her massage.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Isn't funny. Normally I would agree and say do not answer this but I actually think you should along these lines.

*"Correction: Sorry you failed us and the kids, sorry you blamed me for your choices, and I am truly sorry you are so lost....."*

But of course the choice is yours.

HM64


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm just trying to stay so 180 right now, it isn't funny. I'm pretty much NC except finances and kids. If I know her, she is just going to become a complete nightmare about EVERYTHING! I'm just trying to stay positive and upbeat. So hard!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I'm just trying to stay so 180 right now, it isn't funny. I'm pretty much NC except finances and kids. If I know her, she is just going to become a complete nightmare about EVERYTHING! I'm just trying to stay positive and upbeat. So hard!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be strong. Clinical. Matter of fact.


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## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Doc. Going through a divorce right now your ex is probably trying to position you to be on good terms so she can get a good deal.

I would not be too kind nor too angry when you deal with her. The best approach is to be coolly detached from her. This will probably drive her crazy as she will realize that she has limited control over you.

Being too nice to her would be bad because this would signal that she can walk all over you, but the worst thing is to get angry with her. This would signal weakness to her and she will take it as you are still not over her and she can manipulate you.

You are doing a good job y using 180. The best demeanor around her is to be happy and carefree and too act like you could care less what she does.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> Oh, and here is the possible first ***** in the armour. I got this message last night.
> 
> "(doc_martin),
> I lay here after watching (our son's name) stare at our photo tucked in his pillow before bed, and snuggle (our daughter's name) as she cries her self to sleep, and I struggle to not hate right now - so I write you this to thank you.
> ...


Doc, you should have prefaced this with "Grab Puke bag before reading."

Histrionics!


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

I just don't know how to go from "being the love of my life" to wanting to make the divorce process as miserable as possible? I boggles my mind. She's seriously gonna lose it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I just don't know how to go from "being the love of my life" to wanting to make the divorce process as miserable as possible? I boggles my mind. She's seriously gonna lose it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You just go cold on her and only talk about the kids yea she'll have to get a job too bad she shouldn't have cheated. Carry a var on you.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> Originally *Posted by doc_martin*
> I'm just trying to stay so 180 right now, it isn't funny. I'm pretty much NC except finances and kids. If I know her, she is just going to become a complete nightmare about EVERYTHING! I'm just trying to stay positive and upbeat. So hard!


Get as much emotional support as you can (friends, family, internet, faith, etc)
Concentrate on helping yourself and your children as much as possible
Force yourself to NOT think about your wife and that situation.
Make a “Bucket List” for someone that is going to live a long time and start planning or doing those things.


You are going to just have to suffer some pain, no way around that. You are a Doc so I know you know that you have to go through some pain before the healing starts to kick in.

Do it right and you will recover and you will have the possibility to have a good life.

*Millions have done it and so can you.*


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I just don't know how to go from "being the love of my life" to wanting to make the divorce process as miserable as possible? I boggles my mind. She's seriously gonna lose it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck figuring out that puzzle. People are confusing. Human ability to justify any action and still be the victom is utterly amazing.

Just *remember who the "love of your life" was. She was a figment of your imagination*. The woman you're divorcing now is the reality. She's not the dream girl that your mind constructed.


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## Carlton (Sep 15, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Carry a var on you.


I CANNOT AGREE WITH THIS MORE!!!!

My wife has threatened to kill me at least twice. This will have a bearing on the outcome of the divorce.

I will be getting her psychologically evaluated. It will not play well for her.

The best one I have found...

Sony ICDPX312 Digital Voice Recorder ICDPX312 B&H Photo Video

I have had a few others from radio shack, but this one is the best. A nice big mic, follow the instructions for best use, do not move while she is talking (lots of noise).


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## berlin292 (Dec 18, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> I'm in exactly the same place. Spent 3 years on false R without truly getting to the meat of the problem. But I can look myself in the mirror every morning knowing that I have done everything I could to try to rebuild our relationship. But I know that I can't do it myself. My wife is the same - wants to pretend it never happened. I guess for our wives it's easy and preferable to do that when you are the DS.


Ditto! Spent a year in MC, wife still insists the A happened because I'm "controlling" and because she "had no voice" and all kinds of other things that added up to the A was my fault. She wouldn't acknowledge what really happened ("It was really just a friendship"). Continued contact for 3 months after discovery.

So after 1 yr of MC, the counselor quit! "I can't help you." So I took action -- got a lawyer, apartment, cut off the paycheck. We're heading for the D now.

If they won't own up and show that they want R, then you have no other option.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

I just become so sad, that something so insignificant has become so paramount to her. And her kids, who she claims are her focus, are suffering so much! 14 years of a great marriage tossed aside for an on again off again affair, where they never even got to spend real time together! I almost hope she ends up with him just so I can laugh about it! Truly affairs are like a drug addiction! It's all just so sad. Any chances she would get married to him the day after our divorce is finalized? That would be great!!! Have to try and laugh at something!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

doc_martin said:


> I just become so sad, that something so insignificant has become so paramount to her. And her kids, who she claims are her focus, are suffering so much! 14 years of a great marriage tossed aside for an on again off again affair, where they never even got to spend real time together! I almost hope she ends up with him just so I can laugh about it! Truly affairs are like a drug addiction! It's all just so sad. Any chances she would get married to him the day after our divorce is finalized? That would be great!!! Have to try and laugh at something!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your wife is deep into the fog, or a MLC. Doesn't matter which one - the fact is she has changed. My STBXW is the same. I've spent 5 years in total since she entered her MLC - waiting for her to snap out of it. But she isn't and likely won't. It IS sad and hard to let go because of the memories. And the memories ARE real, but my current wife (and your wife from the sounds of it) has changed into someone very, very broken. And it's no longer my job to help fix her. She has made that very clear.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Take heart in the fact that when she wakes up from this she'll most likely be in a very dark place. After 8 months my STBXW texted me at midnight a few days ago saying she's "in Hell", "life has destroyed her" and wants to come back but "doesn't know how". She supposedly cries every day over what she did to me and my daughter. 

But only a few months ago she was saying the same types of things your wife wrote in her letter. Now she's at least $20,000 in debt and living with a man who's old enough to be her father who's already had one stroke and has "circulation" problems (wink, wink).

I, on the other hand, am doing quite well without her and am starting to date a bit. I'm amazed at how many great women there are out there. You're going to end up so much better off. Hang tough.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think there's a protective, biological purpose to the karma bus.

It shows the WS's behavior for the tawdry mess that it is. It assuages, if even just a little bit, the pain that they cause by making them look pathetic both to the world and to themselves.

There's a lot to be said for honorable, moral behavior. It really makes it much easier to live our lives happily. It's not just showing other people that we're not bad human beings, it's actually being able to hold our heads up and not live a lifetime of regret.


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## doc_martin (Oct 19, 2012)

There IS a lot to be said of honorable, moral behavior. I regret my brief revenge EA to the core of my being! I hated losing my position of respectability FOR MYSELF! I have WORKED everyday at repairing the damage that has caused to myself and my family (even tho she never stopped contact before, during, or after). I will forever try to make it up to myself and my kids. 

But I really truly believe the "fog" is just like an addiction. I never saw my EA partner for anything else than what she was. Maybe that is why when I was caught, I just stopped. No goodbye. I didn't care how she was doing. Never felt the urge "to check up on her". I was snapped back to fully being committed to my love and responsibility. Too bad she just used that to further justify her affair. 

I work everyday to become the man I want my kids to remember.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> *I work everyday to become the man I want my kids to remember.*


This is one my most important goals in my life Doc.

Keep it up.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

you can send out all the ill will/vibes you want to your wife. the important thing is you got rid of that no-good, lying cheater. 

that's some baggage you were carrying..... namely her.


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## Hermione (Dec 13, 2012)

In her stupid letter, who is she struggling not to hate?

It better be herself. And not you.

She is quite a whackadoodle with her self pity. She stuck her hand in a fire and is seemingly amazed that it's hot.

Duh.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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