# Devistated by Wife's Emotional Affair



## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Yesterday afternoon, I called my wife to ask for her hotmail password because I was downloading a trial Microsoft product and needed to register it through WindowsLive. She gave me the password (after asking why I needed it) and I went into her email to click the link on the confirmation email. I didn't see the email immediately (I later found it in the "junk" folder, if you were wondering) so I started poking around - I really don't know why.

To make a long story short, I wound up in her "Sent" folder, and discovered a bunch of graphic emails between her and a guy I had never heard of. I found out later, she had known him in high school (she's 37 now). The emails were dated between November of last year and January of this year. They included graphic pictures of his "stuff", references to phone sex conversations they had had, etc.... He apparently lives about 40 minutes from here.

In shock, I read and reread each email. My wife was at work and wasn't coming home for several hours, so I just wandered around the house after the kids (we have 4 daughters, the oldest being 5) went to bed.

When she finally came home, I told her we needed to have a big-boy / big-girl conversation. She looked annoyed and asked what was going on. I started by asking her if we were still married because she loved me, or was it only because of our kids. She seemed completely surprised by the question and asked what this was all about. I stated that I knew all about "John" (made up name). I said I had seen the emails, the texts, the pictures, and that I knew about all the phone calls.

My wife seemed floored, kind of like a deer in the headlights look. She responded finally, that she did love me and that kids or not, she did want to stay married. I went on, saying that I wasn't looking for a fight or to make her feel bed. This wasn't something I wanted to hold over her head forever. Whatever we needed to do to fix the marriage, I was all in -- I just needed to know if that was what she wanted.

As our conversation went on, she seemed to say all the right things. She apologized multiple times and told me that there had never been any physical contact between them. I want to believe her...we'll see. The emails seemed to indicate it was all via phone and computer.

I told her to be straight up brutally honest with me and to please let me know if there was something I was doing (or wasn't) that had driven her to do this. She couldn't come up with a reason why and basically claimed temporary insanity. She also said it's never happened before or since. I do think she is telling the truth in this aspect, since I saw an email from him in February, to her, saying that he hoped she was doing well, along with our family. (we had a special needs baby girl born in March, who has been hospitalized for three of the 4 months she's been alive). I also saw a Facebook message to her from him in August where he said he had been following our daughter's progress online via my wife's status updates, that he was praying for her (our daughter), that he always thinks about her (my wife) and that if there was anything he could do, to please let him know.

Anyway, that's the gist of it. Since then, my wife has seemed committed to repairing the damage. She's open to talking about it and genuinely seems concerned.

It's been less than a day though and I've found myself crying while my kids are napping, although I'm not sure why. I want to talk it to death with her, but I'm afraid I'll alienate her if I keep bringing it up over and over and over again. I told her last night that once we were done with the conversation, I would not bring it up again, and instead, just concentrate on moving on and fixing things.

I guess I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. I love her and I think she's sorry and loves me. (I really do) Should I just shut up and see what happens from here? The only demands I've made of her is for her to remove him from her Facebook friends list, and to send him an email telling him not to call or write ever again. I just asked her that this afternoon. We met at the hospital for lunch before she went to work. She hasn't removed him yet, but it's very possible she's busy at work. I'll reiterate that tonight when she gets home if it hasn't been done by then. Also, I didn't know about the "No Contact Letter" when I talked to her. I have it pasted into MS Word and I will ask her to read it, copy it into an email to him and send it to him tonight.

Any thoughts? I'm going a little crazy but I don't want to do or say something stupid.

Thank you.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Bringing it up once and then never again is called......rug sweeping. You only ask two things from her.
Complete transparency and total honesty. Its simple. You also tell her that in the future you randomly choose times to have her take a polygraph test. Could be a year, could be five. But what the hell, see how the rug sweeping works for you.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

You are doing very well in terms of the steps you have asked her to take. 

You do have a right to be upset about it for more than a day though. You don't have to apologize for wanting answers or bringing it up until you are finally given the answers you are looking for.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Have paternity tests on all 4 daughters. These tests are fairly low costs.


And, it's too soon for her after discovery day. She may not be telling you the whole truth. She's in a damage control mode right now.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Expose the other man (OM) to his wife. That's important so that his wife can be aware and protect herself. Also, she can help keep an eye on him to make sure he does not contact your wife again.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Your are likely getting trickle truth now. On D-Day I got the I love you and would never let a "friendship" interfere with our marriage. Three days later I got a written laundry list of what a crappy husband I had been and the ILYBANILWU speech.

You and she have made some good initial steps but make sure she knows no contact is a requirement. Also that you need full disclosure. I will disagree with others on exposure at this point. Hold that one back for now. 

OBTW, our marriage recovered and thrived with time.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but don't expect to be "over" this soon, expect this to affect you for at least 2 years
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Been exactly where you are, Hurt. Asking for a NC letter (and getting rid of his contact info) is very reasonable.

I think Duration has it right on- the best cure for this is her transparancy and honesty.

I don't know about sweeping this under the rug, tho'. You're allowed to have hurt feelings. More than allowed- I'd expect anyone to be hurt. She's going to have to realize that it's up to her to help you thru this, by being honest, by working hard to reestablish trust, etc.

I do think you need to get assurances that this affair is truly over, and if that means picking at her about it for awhile, then so be it. If she understands how she's hurt you and is truly sorry, then it shouldn't be a problem. 

I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you- but you can survive it, and so can your marriage if she's truly remorseful and willing to work on things with you.

If it's just trickle-truth, you will need to reevaluate and figure out a plan.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

You handled the initial discovery very well. I wish I had handled at as well as you.
You can't really sweep this under the rug because the pain you are feeling is real. She is going to have to reassure you and reassure you again.
Your trust has been smashed to pieces so you will have to rebuild it, bit by bit. She needs to realize that for that to happen you are going to need her to be transparent.
All email passwords
All phone records.
She has lost the right to privacy for the time being.

If you find it difficult to talk about it I would suggest MC. This is a place where she is safe to talk and you are safe to ask questions and express your very real pain.

The OM needs to be off FB.
The OM needs to be out of her life totally.

Consequences. 
What will happen if she contacts the OM again?


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Yes, you do need to establish some firm boundaries/consequences.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I'm so sorry you're going through this and be aware that most cheaters when caught lie and trickle truth. If the OM was only 40 minutes away, it is possible it went physical. Don't rule it out yet.

Also, you will most likely need to talk about her affair more than once in order to move on and recover. It is not "holding it over her head" to discuss how you feel, how it hurts you, why she did it, and how your marriage will be different in the future. If in 2 years you need to discuss details again, you need to be able to discuss it. It's being real and honest about your feelings. Holding it over her head would be if you threw it in her face during an unrelated disagreement. 

Your wife needs to figure out why she allowed an affair, otherwise it could happen again. You are 50% responsible for the marital state, but she's 100% responsible for the affair. That was her choice. Don't take on any blame for her poor choices. I'd recommend finding a good marital counselor to help you through this, but get recommendations. There are really bad MC out there too.

Good luck and be prepared for a long road. It's not easy to recover and the affects are long lasting. Your marriage will never be the same, but it doesn't mean that is a bad thing. Just know it will be different.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> It's been less than a day though and I've found myself crying while my kids are napping, although I'm not sure why. *I want to talk it to death with her, but I'm afraid I'll alienate her if I keep bringing it up over and over and over again. I told her last night that once we were done with the conversation, I would not bring it up again, and instead, just concentrate on moving on and fixing things.*
> 
> I guess I'm not sure what the right thing to do is. I love her and I think she's sorry and loves me. (I really do) *Should I just shut up and see what happens from here? The only demands I've made of her is for her to remove him from her Facebook friends list, and to send him an email telling him not to call or write ever again.* I just asked her that this afternoon. We met at the hospital for lunch before she went to work. She hasn't removed him yet, but it's very possible she's busy at work. I'll reiterate that tonight when she gets home if it hasn't been done by then. Also, I didn't know about the "No Contact Letter" when I talked to her. I have it pasted into MS Word and I will ask her to read it, copy it into an email to him and send it to him tonight.


You are doing well, but you should realize that your promising her that you will never bring this up again is just unrealistic and unwise. 

First of all, you do not know if this is the only indiscretion during her M. Also, you do not know that despite your deducing from emails, you still are not sure if she has not minimized the whole story. Demand the full extent of every little details and personally I would demand polygraph to prove her story being genuine

Secondly, you have to make her face some kind of consequence to her action, otherwise how do you know she won't do this again? I know you want to believe she has enough sense in her never to do this again. But, then again, if she had, she wouldn't have done this in the first place, no? In other words, you cannot trust her. You have genuine ground for suspicion over her characters over all. At this point, you really do not know who you are dealing with. To make sure she won't do this again is giving her some kind of consequences. Letting her get away with not much repercussion out of your love and fear of losing her is the worst thing you can do in this situation.

Also, you have to worry about your sanity. Do not make commitment to something you cannot keep. Right now, she is at the weakest position where she just has been found to have A, but if you make a promise now and revert on it later on, it can make you look bad and she can use that to her advantage. You must demand all the sordid truth of what happened here. You may feel like you don't want to know now, but trust me, this is for your long term benefit. If there is anything hidden from you, you mind will eventually turn obsessive toward them. You have to demand her to reveal all the truth and tell her you may want to talk about this A for some time in order to heal your heart.

If she resists cooperation, you can even vaguely hint the threat of exposing to others for "help" instead. I state again, you must make her pay for her teachery. This does not mean any kind of abuse, but she must be made to do the "heavy lifting" to come to feel the true repercussion of what she has done, and it will help her remember this experience as a true lesson to keep herself safeguard against any future temptation.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> As our conversation went on, she seemed to say all the right things. She apologized multiple times and told me that there had never been any physical contact between them. I want to believe her...we'll see. The emails seemed to indicate it was all via phone and computer...
> 
> ...She also said it's never happened before or since.... I also saw a Facebook message to her from him in August where he said he had been following our daughter's progress online via my wife's status updates, that he was praying for her (our daughter), that he always thinks about her (my wife) and that if there was anything he could do, to please let him know...
> 
> ...



I found out about my wife's emotional affair (EA) the exact same way you did. Only hers was more recent to the day I saw it. See the bolded section above. DO NOT DO THIS. Tell her the exact opposite, that you will need to hash this out, probably many times. I made this same mistake about saying, "Well, that's all I need to say." You will come up with more questions for several weeks. Keep asking them. Tell your wife you will keep asking them. DONT let her off the hook.

And I agree with the posters talking about Trickle Truth. I was lucky. The email I saw actually discussed how they had not gone physical, but longed for the day they could (like, after we got divorced). But most of them have.

The fact he is still checking up on your family, claiming he cares, etc, is exactly what my wife's OM wanted to do. I put a stop to it immediately, and it was one of the best moves I ever made. Confront him, tell him to buzz off. Tell your W you are doing this. It's sick that he would talk about your daughter like that after what he has said to your wife.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Thank you everyone for the responses.

Just an update:

I just got off the phone w/my wife. She was asking me how I was doing. I was honest and told her I had been crying off and on but that I was doing "okay" and was trying to sort through everything.

She asked if I still had questions and I asked that even if they didn't get physical, had they met in person since I told her I knew he lived nearby. She seemed irritated that I had "been playing private detective". I clicked on the other guy's wife on facebook and saw where they lived. She asked my to please stop torturing myself by snooping around and that if I had any questions I could ask her. 

She told me again that "it was just words" and that there "were no feelings behind them". Then she asked, "Do you feel like I've cheated on you?" And I said, "YES,* of course* you cheated on me!" Not yelling, but in a tone that let her know I felt very strongly about that.

In all honesty, she seemed surprised that I felt that way. She did remove him from Facebook (confirmed). And I am going to go over the Do Not Contact letter with her when she comes home tonight.

All in all, she still seems sorry but she's getting defensive, which honestly, I understand. She told me that if I need to be mad or hurt or go through my feelings, that's fine and that we can talk about it anytime. Pretty much what I expected but I hate the defensiveness because I do want to talk about things but I don't want to set up a hostile environment (warranted or not).


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

You don't seem to have such a strong assertive position with your W. So, I guess demanding polygraph is out of question, then. Well, the least you have to do is find a good MC to help you thru this. I am actually aghast at her thinking this is not "cheating". A 3rd opinion such as that of MC may help her realize the ramification of her act.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

She actually did ask if I thought we needed councelling during our call. I said no, not right now, but I may think more about that depending on how the coming days/weeks/months go.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

save the emails- you'll need them for when you expose the affair to the OM's wife (do NOT tell her you will do this)


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She had at least ongoing cyber and phone sex with this guy, and didn't think it was cheating?

I expect she is or has been in contact with hum to warn hum that you have found out. You should denamd to see her cell phone when she gets home and should check your phone bill. Her getting defensive sounds like she is worried that you are going to find more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

How do you think she would be acting if the roles had been reversed?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sit her down and tell her that in order for you to stay married and heal from this you need her to do the following-


1) Send the no contact letter- also if he contacts her, she must ignore him and tell you of it right away
2) Be completely transparent- her privacy is now null and void. She must give you all passwords to emails, facebook, phone, etc. She must tell you where she is going etc. If you want to look at her phone then she must give it up. At the same time you must use spy tech to verify her actions and to see if she is being truthful (do NOT tell her), use keyloggers and VAR's.
3) She must show true remorse, know that the problems in the marriage are shouldered 50/50 however this affair is 100% her fault. You did NOTHING to make her cheat. She must answer any and all questions you have and repeatedly if necessary. She also must admit that it was an affair.


also- start spending more together with the just the two of you, I know with babies galore in the house its hard but you must spend 10-15 hours of alone time together a week.

it's a good idea to click my newbie link and maybe even my story as it is a typical reaction to what you'll go thru in the next 2 years.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> * Her getting defensive sounds like she is worried that you are going to find more.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I worried about the same thing. 

She asked me if I had done anything crazy like emailing his wife or going on facebook as her and having a conversation with him. I said no, which is true. If he does try to contact her though, I will let him know that I will expose him to his wife in a heartbeat.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> I will let him know that I will expose him to his wife in a heartbeat.



no, you shouldnt tell her about exposure at all and don't use it as a threat either- just go ahead and expose- that man's wife needs to know the truth


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a key logger onto the pc before she gets home!

Get a VAR into her car under the front seat tonight.

Did you see any it's over emails between them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

So she's more worried about if you'll cause trouble for him than how you feel?

I dunno, Hurt. I don't want to freak you out, but that's not good.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

Is she the main bread winner? She seems to have this condescending attitude toward BH.


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## Mike188 (Dec 29, 2009)

HurtInOH said:


> I worried about the same thing.
> 
> She asked me if I had done anything crazy like emailing his wife or going on facebook as her and having a conversation with him. I said no, which is true. If he does try to contact her though, I will let him know that I will expose him to his wife in a heartbeat.


They always say that when they think you might contact the OM or the OM's wife. They accuse you of being crazy or ask if you are going to ruin people's lives. It creates a lot of drama when they think they are going to be exposed.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Saffron said:


> *I'm so sorry you're going through this and be aware that most cheaters when caught lie and trickle truth. If the OM was only 40 minutes away, it is possible it went physical. Don't rule it out yet.*


My drive one way to work is over 40 minutes. Everyday. So 40 minutes is local. It is just not two doors down.

You are likely receiving trickle truth. Do not rug sweep. She must go total NC with him. Also she has proved she cannot have any close male friends. She cannot handle it. 

How did she first hookup with him? Facebook?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> no, you shouldnt tell her about exposure at all and don't use it as a threat either- just go ahead and expose- that man's wife needs to know the truth


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> I worried about the same thing.
> 
> She asked me if I had done anything crazy like emailing his wife or going on facebook as her and having a conversation with him. I said no, which is true. If he does try to contact her though, I will let him know that I will expose him to his wife in a heartbeat.


This is a mistake. You should expose right now! There is absoloutely no benefit of not exposing. There are different beliefs about how much exposure how soon to be ideal. But, no matter what the situation is, if there is OMW, you "must" expose it to her by all means. The sooner the better. The more you wait around, you risk their continued contact taken to deeper underground. Also, you risk OM start brainwashing OMW incase of your exposure attempt later. So, by the time you contact her, she may not be very perceptive.

Tell OMW right now !!!


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> How did she first hookup with him? Facebook?


I think so.


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## McWop (Oct 11, 2011)

I canned my EX for a similar offense. She could have had Postpartum Depression (PD) given your kid situtaion but I found that PD is like alcohol, brings out the demons that were alread there. 
When I kicked her out and then she tried to make nice with me. Basically, some women like to shop around, including their partners. She shopped me, realized she had a good "deal", and then decided she didn't want to return me. I said - "Too late". 
Honestly, I wish we could have made it work and sometimes resent my decision to walk away. But all in all I know I made a best decision I could given my situation. 
You need to figure out the best decision for you and your daugthers.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Your very likely afraid that you will be pushing your wife over the edge and get her so mad at you that she will leave you. After all, she already had a man who at the very least she fantasized with, and engage in mutual sex online/phone with. She cheated and showed she was willing to cross the line. So now you might be feeling insecure about your standing with her. This will cause you to try to negotiate with her, to tell her you are hurt, but to find a way to get her to stay with you.


Stop.

Think about what you want.

Realize that she is the one who has the work to fo to fix this. She is the one who needs to fear loosing you, because you have every right to end your relationship with her. She cheated and only admitted it when caught. 

Do not make deals with her on what you will or won't do. Tell her you will decide as you go and will tell her after you have decided.

Get your intelligence network in place and find out the full extent of her wandering. There maybe be more with the OM, there maybe other men too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> Thank you everyone for the responses.
> 
> Just an update:
> 
> ...


You would not be playing detective if she was not playing the unfaithful wife.

Your wife has cheated on you. You do not know how far they went. You do not know how many other times she has been unfaithful to you. Unfriending him is not enough. She needs to "block" him. Otherwise she can still send and receive messages on facebook.

What was her answer about them meeting? Not sure why you phrased it the way you did. The question was whether or not they met. Per your post she avoided answering your question by showing indignation. That is deflection and a big red flag. If she answered it by saying it was only words then that infers that indeed they did meet up. So you are getting partial truths. A partial truth is lying by omission.

Her contacting this guy and getting close with him on Facebook was inappropriate. It then went to unfaithful with with flirty conversation. Graphic content, pictures with cyber sex is cheating. It is actually quite a leap to assume that they did not get physical being so close to one another.

Has she had other close male friends over the years? Just saying there may be a pattern here. Do you guys spend much time together? Does she go out much without you?

Her comments are condescending and belittling. This is very disrespectful. It is less than adviseable in any human endeavor to relinquish any of your power from the start. This is conflict avoidance. There was no sense in saying you are all in and and willing to do this or that and that you will not hang this over her head. You immediately went to forgiving her without even knowing the extent of her indescretion. Not good. It is not attractive. LIkely part of why she is seeking out other men.

You need to looin to the Nice Guy stuff. Women do not see this as attractive.

I think the fact that she had no feelings makes it an even more questionabkle endeavor. It was just sex is what she is saying. No big deal. Just infidelity with another man.

She is being defensive because there is more you do not know about.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> She is being defensive because there is more you do not know about.


Agreed. Defensiveness is a red flag, it can mean a lack of true remorse and that she's hiding something.

Also, her questioning if you've been snooping and pretending to be her on FB to the OM is a very bad sign. If there wasn't more to uncover, she wouldn't fear you doing these things.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news but don't expect to be "over" this soon, expect this to affect you for at least 2 years
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Speaking of me. I was in the EXACT same boat. I neve doubted my wife and never expect it. Same thing, texts, chats, and phone pictures of body parts. Same thing, she was sorry didnt know why and would stop. She did stop after a few too friendly goodbye emails I found. Do not expect it to be over and do not stop talking about it. I went over it with her for a month and then swept it away. We went through a great period and then slowly faded. Not saying you will but just dont expect it to be quick or easy. I find myself 2 years later and love her (not that way unfortunately) and forgave her and no bitterness (ok a little) but we didnt deal with it right (or maybe it was just our other issues) so I find myself living with a good friend not a wife. Not enough for me and not sure it can be repaired. Do counsiling now if you really want to save things. Might not work but do it before you get to the point I am at.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

Saffron said:


> Agreed. Defensiveness is a red flag, it can mean a lack of true remorse and that she's hiding something.
> 
> Also, her questioning if you've been snooping and pretending to be her on FB to the OM is a very bad sign. If there wasn't more to uncover, she wouldn't fear you doing these things.


There is more, maybe not worse but more. They will fear you finding more and the probably dont even know what else there is but are afraid of what they forgot about. My wife was the same but I demanded she keep all her PW public to me. I checked them hourly then daily and now just once in a while. If she is sorry she will understand the need and will do it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> sit her down and tell her that in order for you to stay married and heal from this you need her to do the following-
> 
> 
> 1) Send the no contact letter- also if he contacts her, she must ignore him and tell you of it right away
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> I think so.


So you need to take a closer look at her facebook activities in gernarl. There is a way to get information on past messages and chats. You should care who the friends are. It is especially important that there are no ex lovers on that list. 

Co-workers make sense of course ... to a point. That said so many affairs are work related.

I have my chat turned off on facebook.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

They should really call it Dramabook.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Dig, then dig some more.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> There is a way to get information on past messages and chats.


I've already been through her chats that are still there. Is there a way to recover deleted ones?

In response to other's suggestions. She DID send a DNC email to him. She asked me if I wanted her to bcc: me. I had her go ahead and cc: me so he knows with no doubt that I am aware of their activities.

As far as marriage councelling goes, does anyone know if insurance covers it? We're pretty broke with me back in school for 1 more year.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You need to tell his wife. And do it without any warnng to ur wife or the other man so they don't have time to get their stories straight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> You need to tell his wife. And do it without any warnng to ur wife or the other man so they don't have time to get their stories straight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I decide to tell his wife, there won't be getting any stories straight. I have more than enough evidence via emails.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> If I decide to tell his wife, there won't be getting any stories straight. I have more than enough evidence via emails.


It is not about confirming the fact that the affair occurred. It is more about having another set of eyes watching to make sure the contact is indeed ceased. Also, you never know what additional info she may provide that may shock you. This is where majority of BH make mistakes.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> It is not about confirming the fact that the affair occurred. It is more about having another set of eyes watching to make sure the contact is indeed ceased. Also, you never know what additional info she may provide that may shock you. This is where majority of BH make mistakes.


I'll think about that. One thing I'm going to demand tonight, is that she sets up an online account with our cell phone provider and that I have full access. Since I know where she is literally 99% of the time, any contact would be on her cell records.

If the contact with him really did cease in February and there are no other suspicious calls since, I'll feel a lot better.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> As far as marriage councelling goes, does anyone know if insurance covers it? We're pretty broke with me back in school for 1 more year.


Depends upon your insurer and coverage. In the Summary of Benefits, it is mentioned under the psychological section in my policy, but it is covered. Our marriage counselor said that some insurers only pay for a set amount of counseling.


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## sadcalifornian (Sep 18, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> I'll think about that. One thing I'm going to demand tonight, is that she sets up an online account with our cell phone provider and that I have full access. Since I know where she is literally 99% of the time, any contact would be on her cell records.
> 
> If the contact with him really did cease in February and there are no other suspicious calls since, I'll feel a lot better.


She is not stupid. If she knows that is what you will be monitoring and wants to continue contact, why would she use the same tool of communication? Also, you don't even know this is one time thing? I am just worried that your approach seems nothing short of just sweeping under the rug. Be more proactive than this!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You forgot to insist on the rest of her passwords and marriage counseling.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

sadcalifornian said:


> She is not stupid. If she knows that is what you will be monitoring and wants to continue contact, why would she use the same tool of communication? Also, you don't even know this is one time thing? I am just worried that your approach seems nothing short of just sweeping under the rug. Be more proactive than this!


I don't disagree and I can see where you're coming from. Here's the thing. According to her and the emails I've seen, I have no solid reason to believe that she's been doing anything since February. One look at her cell records from then to now will 99% confirm or reject that since she and the phone have been surgically connected forever. If I see a pattern of calls to him or anyone else since then, that will let me know I'm not getting the truth from her. I know this isn't a 100% guarantee, but it's a huge one.

Is it possible there's a hidden email account or something else? Sure, but my wife is not very tech savvy (i am) and I've been poring over browser histories as well for any other ID's in hotmail, yahoo, gmail, etc, and haven't found anything. I may never know everything that happened for sure, but I'm reasonably confident that I'll be able to spot if it lasted longer than she said. Thank you. I really do appreciate everyone's advice, even if I'm too dumb to take all of it.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

turnera said:


> You forgot to insist on the rest of her passwords and marriage counseling.


As far as I know, I have all of her other passwords. I can access her hotmail and her facebook (and have been able to for a long time, I just didn't check them carefully before). As I wrote above, I will think about marriage counseling. I'm leaning towards it right now. I'm still in shock so my planning is kind of muddled right now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Well she has had her cell phone all day, so she has very likely deleted all incriminating texts. You might still be able get them from backups if she syncs to the pc, or from the SIMM card depending on the phone. Google the model + remover text 

You really should have that keyloggrer running, and she should be showing you her phone whenever you ask to see it. Wait a couple of days on the phone for her to get complacent.

Have you asked her his it started and how it ended.?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Well she has had her cell phone all day, so she has very likely deleted all incriminating texts. You might still be able get them from backups if she syncs to the pc, or from the SIMM card depending on the phone. Google the model + remover text
> 
> You really should have that keyloggrer running, and she should be showing you her phone whenever you ask to see it. Wait a couple of days on the phone for her to get complacent.
> 
> ...


All I really need to know is if the calls have continued since February. If they have, I don't need to see more texts to know what was in them. If she's been in contact with him since then, I'll know it by looking at our old cell phone bills (she has been doing the bills...yeah red flag in retrospect) and if she lied about the calls, I'll assume she's lying about the rest. I'm hoping contact did stop back then but I'll know soon enough.

As far as how it started, it was apparently through facebook. I do not have details on how it progressed. I do not know how it ended either. She insinuated that they contact just kind of died out. She'll be home in 15-20 minutes and i'll press her on that.

She has been sending me sweet "I love you" texts throughout the day...dare to dream! But seriously, I know there's a lot of work to do.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

One technique for getting the truth out of someone is to have them tell the tale in reverse. It trips up their rehearsed story and shows the spots they are lying about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Only 40 minutes away... unlikely it wasn't a PA.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

It stopped in Feb? Maybe and you could be 100% right on that but that doesnt mean she deserves your automatic trust. That has to be earned back. You have zero reason to believe it wont happen again and be hidden like before. You are not wront to feel like that. There was something that caused her to do it before and if it's not resolved likely will do it again. Get some help even if seperately. She needs to resolve her issues and you need to resolve this


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Call ur phone company or check online for past phone call log statements and text messages. You MUST tell his wife. And don't let your wife or him know beforehand.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hurt, I copy/pasted this from another thread I wrote in but it's relevant to you:

_Here's the thing about exposure: *NEVER GIVE YOUR SPOUSE OR THE OTHER WOMAN/MAN WARNING THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPOSE. JUST DO IT!!!* 

Why?

Because that will give her and the OM time to get their stories straight/corroborate timelines and make YOU out to be the crazy/psycho husband who has trust issues and is going through a hard time in his marriage, therefore he suspects his wife is cheating on him and wants to lash out at everyone. They WILL do this if you keep giving them warnings. Oh and you bet she's told him already "My husband knows...if someone asks we can just say we're friends" and have already started planning and concocting their stupid excuses and lame cover up stories.

Find out who his wife is and exposes immediately:

"OM's Wife,

Your husband, Name, has been having an affair with my Wife's Name since on or about Month/Year. I discovered the affair by way of (fill in the blank). (Copy/paste or verbalize any proof you have). Their affair has been detrimental to my marriage. My wife told me the affair ended however I have proof contradicts that--they are still having an affair and in contact. I am telling you this because you deserve to know the truth. If you were already aware of the affair, then I am sure that this comes as no surprise to you, but if not, I am sorry to have to be the one to inform you. If you want to talk further or need further proof, you may contact me (at....fill in the blank).

Your Name"

THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F them! And no, your wife doesn't sound like he wants to work it out with you if she's still lying to you. So expose her for the liar she is without telling her or OM. And in the interim, tell her "I am aware you are lying to me and still in contact with the OM. You need to leave today because I refuse to live in an open marriage. I refuse to be treated so callously and be lied to and I will not tolerate this nonsense and your betrayals anymore. Get the f*ck out, homes!"

Remove yourself as an option for her. She will not feel any consequences as long as you're covering up the affair and allowing him to stay in the house/carry on as a married man with all the benefits of a committed relationship. She is not committed to your marriage, therefore you do not need to reward her with the same generosity and pat her on the back and feel fearful when she is the one making these d!ck moves. Tell her where to go. _

Oh and a word of advice: NO marriage counselling as long as she's having an affair. MC does nothing as long as one partner is still lying/having an affair.


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## HerToo (Oct 3, 2011)

As someone who had an EA, let me tell you about the power of the affair drug. My wife discovered my EA when she saw emails on my phone. So I had to tell the OW it's over. I did, and we haven't contacted each other since.

Yet, the drug like addiction desire to feel those "good feelings" again is very strong. But, I have not done so. My wife has forgiven me, I am in counseling, and we are going to do counseling together. Does that mean I don't think of the OW? No. I hurt her as well, as others, and that's a hurt that I can't even attempt to fix since it would start things all over again her. And I don't want that for either of us, and my wife.

To go from "deep passionate love" (fake) to no contact can happen. But the drug like feeling will last for some time. It's just now starting to fade away for me. What is not is the hurt I caused everyone.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

It took me four to six weeks of NC along with some anti-depressants to go through withdrawal.

It is very powerful, yet very enlightening. I did not see what I was doing as anything more than having a close female friend. However, after the withdrawal it was then obvious to me.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> All I really need to know is if the calls have continued since February. If they have, I don't need to see more texts to know what was in them. If she's been in contact with him since then, I'll know it by looking at our old cell phone bills (she has been doing the bills...yeah red flag in retrospect) and if she lied about the calls, I'll assume she's lying about the rest. I'm hoping contact did stop back then but I'll know soon enough.


You do realize that the other most common tool for cheating besides the secret email accounts is the secret cell phone - those pay as you go phones. With those phones, you can pay for them in cash at many stores and pay in cash to refill the minutes on those.

Here are some posts in a thread about affair phones in a forum from a support site for cheating women:

“That's why he has a pay as you go phone! No bills for W to find - but if ever she got hold of the phone...........! We will be soooooo busted!!!”

“same here...he has several hiding places he keeps it& he'll move it around every so often but really it's only home w/ him on sunday-tuesday. then he's off on the road and doesn't have to worry about it. Except one time he was on his regular phone w/ her..and I called him (normally he has it on vibrate) and it started ringing and she was like "who's phone is that?" and OMG he almost got seriously busted a while back. She was talkin to him on the phone and he had "our' phone laying on his chest..he was lyain down in his bunk on the bus. She said "XX (the kid) wants you to take a picture and send it to him"..so he took a picture of himself...and she calls back and was like "who's phone is that in the pic?" he was like "huh?" looks at it and realizes like an idiot he left the phone on his chest. He said "oh that is XX (band mate), he had to use my charger and I told him it was charged and was waitin for him to get it.." surprisingly she believed him ha! that was a close one...”

“I am sorry you are going through this ....as XXXX said be VERY careful....even if you get a call from his mobile or home nunber...let him speak 1st (tell him that this is what you are doing so he does speak) as she may do a redial or something from HIS phone”

“Dont contact him 1st at any time.... she will be on red alert....and there are so many gadgets out there now to help someone who wants to spy on another person...like putting key loggers on the computer”

“Him phoning you from work on a work line should be a safe way to chat...but for awhile be REALLY careful with texts...if you do send any...keep them 'normal' no love or sexual texts” 

“Good luck I hope it all blows over”

“It may be a good idea for him to have you listed on his phone in a male name not under your name”

“My MM's W went through his old phone and found photos, e-mails and VMs going back years - before me and after me.” 

“He has also had my picture as caller ID - and it was seen a few times before this final phone d-day. Now he has a fingerprint scan locking application on his new phone.” 

“He had no choice but to fess up to everything. We are riding it out - and he is finally being more careful.”


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Those posts are just....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I know. 

HurtinTN's WW ended up getting 2 of those affair phones. He found one, destroyed it, and she bought another. That's why the VAR is so crucial.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheating women need a 'support site'? You would think riding some other woman's man would provide all the support they need.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Just an update.

The last several days have actually gone tremendously well. My wife has freely given full access to all of her accts, including email and facebook and helped me set up an online account with our wireless company (she's the primary) and told them to give me full access so I could go back through all of the calls and texts since this started. I have gone through those and found no contact since last February.

She's been extremely patient in answering any questions I had about their relationship and activities, and while it doesn't make the hurt go away, she truly seems like a full partner in the recovery process. 

We'll see how things progress but as for now, things are going much better than I expected. I'm crossing my fingers and knocking on wood, but I really think we're on the right path and her response in the last few days has made all of the difference.

I'll post back from time to time with any updates.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

The willingness to be completely transparent is always an excellent indication of a proper R. How is she with the remorse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> The willingness to be completely transparent is always an excellent indication of a proper R. How is she with the remorse?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She gets sad when she sees me start to get upset or my mood changes (which it will do out of the blue). She'll ask me what's on my mind until I tell her, hear me out, answer any questions, and then tell me how sorry she it that she hurt me so badly. I believe her when she says this as she really does seem sad for me, and remorseful about what she did.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sounds good- just keep an open eye out


start spending more time together and bond more, lots of sex helps too.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> sounds good- just keep an open eye out
> 
> 
> start spending more time together and bond more, lots of sex helps too.


Eyes open and four times in the last four days. :smthumbup:

We also had an awesome sweetest day today. Carriage ride downtown, great dinner lots of hand-holding. It's almost like dating again or being newlyweds.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

Sounds good, make sure you deal with it properly. I would still see someone (her too) and work out the why it happend. Not saying it will happen again if you dont but after I found out, my W had the same reactions and she was good about everything. We went through and extremely loving period (prob best ever) but I think it was us both trying to prove something after something so bad. It slipped away and we were both back to normal. Just saying because it feels so great doesnt mean you are over it or on the track to that. I thought the same so I just let time heal, it doesnt and maybe if I did talk to someone back then things would be different now (maybe not but I wish I had tried)


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Therapy?

No Contact Letter?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> Therapy?
> 
> No Contact Letter?



I thought he mentioned the NC letter from the get go


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

turnera said:


> Therapy?
> 
> No Contact Letter?


Therapy is on the table. She's brought it up as an option and I said we'd see how things go. I realize we may be in a little of a post-shock, honeymoon reconciliation phase. If things start slipping, counseling will definitely be in the works.

She sent a NC letter the the OM on day #2.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

Dont wait for therapy, you might not see it slipping. Happens slowly.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

HurtInOH said:


> All I really need to know is if the calls have continued since February. If they have, I don't need to see more texts to know what was in them.


You may want to see the content of those texts, actually. What if they proved there was a physical affair? Would that change anything for you? Because that would mean that she is lying to you still. Also, it could prove that it wasn't physical, just fantasy and texts...that would be worth it for you to know as well, and good for the trust she's rebuilding with you. You can get these texts from her phone backup folder on the computer she syncs to or her SIM card, in many cases (not all phones though).

It does sound like she's acting in a very helpful way here, glad to hear you're dating each other and being intimate and working on things. I really really hope this was a one time thing that didn't go physical. Just saying if it did and she's just not telling you because she thinks you don't have proof, would you like to know? I know I did. And that proof is what has given me all of the leverage I have. What to do with that leverage is a tough call, but best to hold all the cards if you can.

Talk with her, let her talk, show her you care, but try not to tell her too much about your pain or if you have a good cry, as she needs to know you're strong, in charge, and able to move on if she gives you any reason. (Nothing wrong with crying, I've done plenty, but certainly don't tell my stbxw about it. Far as she needs to know, I'm fine.) Your W needs to know your boundaries and believe them. I waited too long to lay down boundaries, my W broke them the day after I laid them down, and I had to follow through on divorce to stand up for myself. But I respect myself more and so does my W, even if we're rolling toward divorce. Dignity and respect for yourself first, your W's needs second. Think about that for a second, sounds selfish, but it's not at all. My two cents...

Good luck, enjoy the "new" honeymoon phase, hope you two can keep that the norm from now on, I'm jealous...


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

Shamwow said:


> You may want to see the content of those texts, actually. What if they proved there was a physical affair? Would that change anything for you? Because that would mean that she is lying to you still. Also, it could prove that it wasn't physical, just fantasy and texts...that would be worth it for you to know as well, and good for the trust she's rebuilding with you. You can get these texts from her phone backup folder on the computer she syncs to or her SIM card, in many cases (not all phones though).
> 
> It does sound like she's acting in a very helpful way here, glad to hear you're dating each other and being intimate and working on things. I really really hope this was a one time thing that didn't go physical. Just saying if it did and she's just not telling you because she thinks you don't have proof, would you like to know? I know I did. And that proof is what has given me all of the leverage I have. What to do with that leverage is a tough call, but best to hold all the cards if you can.
> 
> ...


Shamowow,

Thank you for the insight from your experience. I'm not sure there's going to be anything else "evidence wise" to check out. It seems the texts I was talking about were actually emails sent and received from her phone. That makes sense to me because all of them said "sent from my Verizon Wireless phone" on them. I don't believe texts do that, and their emails showed up in every communication I saw. If that's the case, that should be everything since if there were more emails, at least on this account, she would have deleted them all and would not have left any for me to find. Could I be missing something? Of course, but all of the evidence I have found leads me to believe I know pretty much everything that occured and I'll have to rely on her to fill in any blanks. Not perfect, but I have no reason to believe she's lied since D-day. I'm guessing she may have minimized some of the details of their conversations to spare me (in her mind) but I think she's telling the truth about when they stopped contacting each-other.

It's weird. I want to trust her even though I question everything she tells me about what happened. It seems though, that barring a major investigation into finding secret cell phones or email accounts, which I don't believe exist (I've always had access to her purse) I probably have all of the physical evidence I'm ever going to get. If I try to overthink it, I'll drive myself crazy. I still have mind movies, and wonder about things, and I'm sure I will for a long time, but I really just want to accept the fact that on the face of things, she seems to be doing all that she can to reconcile.

I'm thinking more and more about counseling, just because several people here have mentioned that they wish they had done it, but hadn't because things seemed to be going well.

As always, I appreciate the advice!


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

Yes, after I found out I had to go out of town for work. It was very good for me to clear my head, do alot of reading on ways to handle, and let things calm down. I returned home and we had very open conversations. I, like you, think I knew everything I needed. I also didnt press it. She also did all the right things to make me feel better and she did mean it. After a few months we moved into a great place, best our marriage ever had. Looking back it was her trying to make up for the huge mistake she made and I was just trying to recreate something and pretend I was over it more than I was. That went on for several months and then slowly faded (I did not notice), she slowly went back to all the old bad habits that caused issues before (not the EA). I went back to feeling the same way about her I did before only now knowing she also had the EA. Why should I put up with all those other issues when she also cheated on me. Anyway, not saying it would be different now if I had therapy but I might be better and she would definately be better and have the tools to deal with the pre-existing issues. 

Why did she cheat exactly? It's never just a mistake, something lead her down that path. She needs to get that resolved if you want to have a chance at healing too.


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## HurtInOH (Oct 12, 2011)

2yearsince said:


> Why did she cheat exactly? It's never just a mistake, something lead her down that path. She needs to get that resolved if you want to have a chance at healing too.


2Years,

I don't know exactly. She says she doesn't either. It all started shortly after we found out she was pregnant with our 4th daughter. Her impression of me when she told me the news was that I panicked rather than being happy (she is probably right). She said she was angry with me about that for a while although not the reason she would seek attention elsewhere.

This is her version of how events unfolded, she said he mssged her on facebook and they started chatting. At some point and she says she doesn't remember when (this is the hardest thing for me when it comes to believing her) it turned sexual or how. She says he started sending her pics of him and she reacted very inappropriately. She claims that they only talked a handful of times, maybe 4 or 5 on the phone, from work, which could be true. At night, she works in her own area and would be able to have a private conversation if she wanted to. She says that they never met, and that they never had phone sex...that last part also makes sense because if she went to her car, the lot is covered by very high res cameras and her office would still be way too dangerous. Is it impossible that she did? No, but I guess I'm not going there unless I have reason to. She says he never had her cell phone # because she didn't want him to have her number so there were no other calls or texts, which lines up with what I said earlier. How did it end? She says it just stopped. She stopped emailing him and he didn't pursue, except for that time in Aug, he tried messaging her on Facebook again. She says she didn't reply and since I could see his message with no response from her, in her account's message history, I believe that's true.
She says she felt bad, even at the time, and doesn't know why she did it. Like I said, the only thing I doubt, it her memory of the details. If I had been doing that to her, especially over a short period, I think I would know every single detail. I think she's trying to protect me, even though all the details in the open would probably help in the long run...although, I guess even if she did, there would still be that wondering feeling that there might be more.

The worst part right now is doubting my wife when she's talking to me right to my face. I hate that more than almost anything I think. Just a few minutes ago, she called to tell me her coworker (a girl) asked her to stay late. I immediately thought "Oh no." I asked her how long and it turned out she only needed another 15 minutes to run a test. One week ago, I wouldn't have blinked at the though. Today, I immediately jump to conclusions I hate jumping to.

Hmmm...this is getting long, lol. Enjoy your book. 

Seriously though, I can tell it's going to be a long process to get over. Even though today has been a pretty good day overall, and yesterday was fantastic, I don't think there's been more than 10 minutes or so when I haven't at least thought about it for a second and from other posts I've read here, it seems I have it lucky compared to many. *knockonwood*


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

It is a long process, even when do right and when she is perfect in her responses. She sounds alot like my wife in her responses. She doesnt know why, neither did mine. It was something innocent that somehow turned into more, same thing. My current situation 2 years later has no impact (she had other issues). She had a reason to do it, she just doesnt understand, that is what therapy is for. You should demand it from her. Whatever the issue is, you need her to find out what so you know she will not do it again and so it doesnt become some other issue later. Her not knowing why will never give you security to move forward IMO. For my wife, 2 years later I can see why she might have done it but still not sure. My wife was very insecure, very hard life, and treats me poorly. I think it was her escape and she could feel good about how she treated him and it gave her reinforcement of herself even though she didnt feel like I didnt. She still hasnt dealt with it which is why she is still the person she is today.


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## 2yearsince (Sep 20, 2011)

Ohio, I have the same personality. I let things slide and hate to push. The defensiveness is a concern to me but it may just be her not used to you pushing back about anything. Tell her you are going to snoop until you feel comfortable and you just dont feel like she is telling you everything which is ok cause she is trying to spare you. Let her know you can not move forward not knowing all the facts. Again, demand she get therapy with or without you. If she cares about the marriage she will


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