# Walk away wife. A theory.



## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

I found this on another Forum:  _My theory is that the "walkaway wife syndrome," i.e. a "surprise divorce," may occur because the wife fundamentally marries the wrong person or for the wrong reason. That would explain why these wives keep their "secret" for years, it would explain why they tend to give inconsistent answers about why they leave, it would explain why they want to project the fault onto their spouse in the form of anger as a defense mechanism, and it would explain the emotional wall these women put up to prevent any possibility of reconciliation. An affair my complicate the situation but in fact the affair may simply be the catalyst for the wife to execute the plan that had been brewing for years._ 


Any thoughts or opinions? (Applies to walk away husbands too).


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

My thought is the well accepted theory about walkaway wives is correct.

She gets less and less attention from her husband, who ignores her complaints for years and finally she just gives up and finds what she's looking for elsewhere.

Of course you can't apply one theory to everyone.

Sometimes the guy can do everything right and she still screws the mailman.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_My thought is the well accepted theory about walkaway wives is correct.

She gets less and less attention from her husband, who ignores her complaints for years and finally she just gives up and finds what she's looking for elsewhere.

Of course you can't apply one theory to everyone.

Sometimes the guy can do everything right and she still screws the mailman._

But, so many of them don't complain. They just announce it's over. The idea that maybe they chose wrong to begin with or married for the wrong reasons seems plausible.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think many of the spouses (not just husbands, because I think it happens both ways) being left behind have their own version of "the fog" and forget all the warning signs, discussions, etc. that the WAS gave them. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

maincourse99 said:


> But, so many of them don't complain. They just announce it's over. The idea that maybe they chose wrong to begin with or married for the wrong reasons seems plausible.


Well I guess it depends on whether the left behind spouse has really done everything they can, and if they accurately represented themselves early on in the relationship.

Sometimes people put their best foot forward, and then years later the "real" them comes out and it's not pretty. They're fat, lazy, unmotivated, prefer video games over intimacy, they've got drug or alcohol problems, etc.. etc. So you could say in that case yes the walkaway married the "wrong" person.

In other cases, like I said, the left behind spouse did everything they could, they were the "model" spouse, great provider, plenty of intimacy, lots of shared interests, no drug problems, no anger issues, good conflict resolution, good compromising skills, and yet they get cheated on.

Could you say that they married the wrong person? Sure you could.

I guess as I'm writing this I'm wondering why it matters.

What matters is that you come out of each relationship a bit more wiser and experienced then you were before and not be doomed to perpetuating the same mistakes you made before.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> it would explain the emotional wall these women put up to prevent any possibility of reconciliation


There are also MANY EXCELLENT reasons for a spouse (man/woman) NOT to want to reconcile. If a spouse has an addiction (gambling, drugs, drinking, sexual), the spouse may be unwilling to deal with it any longer. Even if the other partner "fixes" himself/herself, the walk-away spouse my decide that they have invested all of the time, energy, emotion into the relationship that they care to.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I recently saw a poster on here who stated that he KNEW he'd been ignoring his wife for years, had acted as though she didn't matter (both of those statements were HIS quotes) and she left him.

NOW he wants to say that he didn't know better. That if she had merely TOLD HIM (told him what....that ignoring someone and acting like they don't matter is NOT gonna endear you to that person?) that she didn't like it, he would have changed! Said he had bad role modeling and just thought that's how marriage was supposed to be after years! It's like Monday morning quarterbacking at this point.

I feel badly for him and his distress, but I have to wonder *how* he can try to make this his ex's fault? Makes me wonder if she DID tell him and HOW she told him and how OFTEN she told him. Did she tell him and he just wouldn't/couldn't HEAR it? Who knows?

As northland pointed out, all you can do is learn and move on!


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## Faiora (Apr 20, 2013)

I actually agree with the initial post.
Based on some personal experience... if a person is in a relationship with someone who has some major moral differences, and one or both partners is unwilling or unable to explore the others' territory, it could easily result in the eventual and sudden end of a relationship. 

For example, say a wife is into kinky stuff and the husband is very sexually "traditional."

The woman might have stayed in the relationship for a long time because she genuinely loves and cares about the man. But there is a need that hasn't been met, and she knows her husband is unwilling or unable to fulfill it. She doesn't want to leave, and over the years she brings it up now and then, only to receive the same response: That's dirty and I don't like it. That goes against my beliefs. I'm not okay with that. 

The woman may know the man loves her, and that she loves him, and that they have a good thing together - but eventually there may be a point where it doesn't seem fair. 

In that scenario, neither party is in the wrong in my opinion. He has every right to have his boundaries, but she has every right to her needs as well. 

When she walks out, you might say "she's choosing some kinky sex over her husband" and I guess it would be true - perhaps walking out isn't the best way to deal with it. But I think that's often what happens. 

Maybe a better way would be to discuss other ways her needs could be met - having sex with other people, for instance. But if all the other options go against his morals as well, what is she left with?

For the record, this works both ways. If you reverse the scenario so the woman is the more traditional one, it's equally true. >.>


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## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I recently saw a poster on here who stated that he KNEW he'd been ignoring his wife for years, had acted as though she didn't matter (both of those statements were HIS quotes) and she left him.
> 
> NOW he wants to say that he didn't know better. That if she had merely TOLD HIM (told him what....that ignoring someone and acting like they don't matter is NOT gonna endear you to that person?) that she didn't like it, he would have changed! Said he had bad role modeling and just thought that's how marriage was supposed to be after years! It's like Monday morning quarterbacking at this point.
> 
> ...


Nah, she never actually told me. And man, when I read that back, it definitely does sound like I got what I deserved, and maybe I did. I don't know....I'd be in the othe room farting off on the computer and she'd say something like, "Get in here!" and I'd just tell her I'd be there in a minute or I didn't feel like watching the program she was. A few minutes later, she didn't act upset or anything, she would come into the room where I was and she would joke around with me. I honestly did not know it was bothering her that badly.

And I think you may have misquoted me a bit....I had bad examples of long term marriages/relationships. I thought after a certain amount of time you were SUPPOSED to be bored or that it was supposed to have a bit of staleness to it. And my marriage was getting stale. Bah, still, you make valid points. And all I can do here is learn from the very foolish mistakes that I made. In a perfect world, I would get to use this knowledge to make things up to my ex wife, but she's already moved on. She did tell me that if I gave her time and space that one day we could possibly start over, but I think she just told me that so I would leave her alone. At least it's working. lol


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Well, Hank, the upside is.....by working on the NEW HANK, she may find she DOES want you back.

Your decision THEN will be whether you want HER back (will SHE have done any work in the interim?)

Good luck!


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Oh, my X said plenty of stuff. But nothing I heard - at least not to extent she wanted me to. 

She would complain about this or that, sure. But man, she would fly off the handle if I missed something on the shopping list. So I thought that complaint was much more important than the other stuff and I really focused on the shopping list. Etc.

She was poor at communicating her feelings. I was poor at listening. Neither of us were mind readers. 

She never once said anything about our marriage being in trouble. Had she I would've done exactly what I did after DDay. Therapy, TAM, self-help books, etc. 

But afterward she did claim we got married for the wrong reasons. I chalked that up to affair fog and blame shifting, but on some level was correct. 

I told her that I felt her affair was her way of ending the marriage in a cowardly way. 

She agreed.

But not long after was back to "you're the one that wanted divorce". I've come to the conclusion that she has/had no freakin clue what she wants.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

I think that there are two different issues that are being mixed together here. There is what goes on in the marriage, and then there is the way in which the marriage is brought to an end. 

I think that most spouses with a walk away wife/husband would acknowledge that they made mistakes in the marriage - and in many cases those mistakes include missing some vital clues that their spouse wasn't happy as well as not paying enough attention to their spouse. 

But the WAS chooses to end the relationship in a way that is less than straightforward. The give up on the marriage without telling their spouse. They secretly develop an exit plan and test it out, sometimes with affairs or secret dating. They carry on with the marriage as if nothing had happened, but in fact they are simply treating it as a safety net whilst they secretly explore other options. They usually deny their spouse the opportunity to recognise an fix problems. 

Of course to justify their actions they re-write the history of the entire relationship. So statements that they "did everything they could" and "were never really in love with their spouse" have to be taken with a huge grain of salt. "Married the wrong person" sounds to me suspiciously like just another bit of relationship re-writing. It is also an excuse to avoid taking any responsibility for their actions - "I couldn't do anything about it - I just married the wrong person"


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Interesting comments so far. I just thought it was a different angle to explore.


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## PM720 (Oct 10, 2012)

From my experience I know I could have a done a much better job. I remember plenty of times where my EX told me that she wanted to talk more or wanted me to be more serious. I had been working all day (she was a SAHM) and all I wanted to do was relax. She wanted the opposite. She was looking for interaction and conversation. So eventually she began drifting apart and I knew what was happening.

Now for well over a year and a half I tried my best, that I can I honestly say. But what truly bothers me is that no matter what I did it would never be enough. I tried to be an attentive husband well before I believe it was over. I helped out around the house, little gifts here and there for appreciation, planning date nights etc. 

So when I look back on it, I can say I did all I could. She let me know she was unhappy and I did all I could to fix it.

I think what happens or at least in my case is one person becomes bored. Bored with the same ol thing. Bored as a SAHM, just bored with the lifestyle. Then the individual is left with 2 choices. 1) Do their best to fix the marriage and be in charge of their own happiness 2) Blame the other partner for their unhappiness and leave.

The 2nd option is much easier.


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

My wife left me and then even threatened repeatedly to just leave the kids behind and go out of state. Definitely a WAS. I wasn't willing to be everything she wanted for her to be happy but then neither would she. So where I found sufficient happiness with her and otherwise (football, hobbies, friends, kids) she eventually decided she needed another man. It was a tough blow and I did plenty of introspection and of course sought validation from other women. So far as I can tell now as then there's nothing wrong with me. If she couldn't accept who I am and make things work with me, that's her problem. So I pretty much agree with the OP.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

PM720 said:


> Then the individual is left with 2 choices. 1) Do their best to fix the marriage and be in charge of their own happiness 2) Blame the other partner for their unhappiness and leave.
> 
> The 2nd option is much easier.


Amen


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

I does not matter if you did not hear or ignored their cry for help or even if they did not cry for help. In my mind there are two truths that result.

To end the marriage by having an affair and devastating a person that you supposedly once loved will NEVER be right.

Optimistically, those of us on the dumped side that choose to have a sincere re-evaluation of ourselves as partners and actively change to be better partners will have a better chance at a deeper and longer lasting love in the time we have left.

Too bad for my WAW.

I will be the ultimate "winner" in this tradgedy.

Stretch


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There was a divorce attorney who posted here for a while. I'm not sure if he still does. He said that the 'walk away wife' thing is no where near as big as things like the news say it is.

He said that something like 80% or more of the divorces initiated by women that people are calling 'walk away" were filed because the husband was cheating and/or abusing the wife.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

For the marriages that actually end with a spouse walking away when they had not informed the other that there was a problem before that... there are many different reasons for this. No one reason fits all cases. People have brought up different reasons on this thread. I them that all of them make sense for particular cases.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> He said that something like 80% or more of the divorces initiated by women that people are calling 'walk away" were filed because the husband was cheating and/or abusing the wife.


Interesting. 

But I'm sure that not even divorce attorneys actually see what goes on in a marriage - they just hear what their clients tell them. My STBXW is most certainly a classic WAW - checked out of the marriage a long time ago, planned the exit route, had dry runs, fully in the fog and still has a fantasy of "freedom" where everything will be perfect with rainbows and unicorns, etc. etc.

Of course as a WAW she also rewrote the entire relationship history and this is the "reality" she presented to her lawyers. The story they heard is that she was a perfect victim of a nasty controlling manipulative husband who was emotionally abusive. She has accused me of having affairs that I never had (I have been 100% faithful from the day I met her to the present day) and she has probably told her lawyers that I had affairs. 

So based on her story they would probably stick her in the abused wife/cheating husband category rather than label her a WAW. But that would be completely wrong.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> He said that something like 80% or more of the divorces initiated by women that people are calling 'walk away" were filed because the husband was cheating and/or abusing the wife.


While certainly not our experience here, this place likely is not a representative sample.


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## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> There was a divorce attorney who posted here for a while. I'm not sure if he still does. He said that the 'walk away wife' thing is no where near as big as things like the news say it is.
> 
> He said that something like 80% or more of the divorces initiated by women that people are calling 'walk away" were filed because the husband was cheating and/or abusing the wife.


I wasn't aware that divorce attorneys had up to date specific and accurate statistics on the reasons people divorce. Doesn't seem like something they'd care all that much about.

My guess is he was just throwing out a rough number based on his own experiences with his clients which of course is meaningless as compared to the population as a whole.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

MY theory is that WAW and terms like MLC or just more excuses for people to behave poorly

Lets face it, people have affairs because they are selfish as holes who only think about themselves
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goofball (Mar 24, 2013)

I think it's a good theory, I know that I have grown in a completely different way than my stbxh, we don't have the same values, ideals, or morals. When we first met, I was young (21) and thought that was how life was - partying, drinking out having a good time...Then I grew up and he didn't. I'm not a WAW per se there are other extenuating circumstances that caused the break down of our marriage but this is a factor as well.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Goofball said:


> I think it's a good theory, I know that I have grown in a completely different way than my stbxh, we don't have the same values, ideals, or morals. When we first met, I was young (21) and thought that was how life was - partying, drinking out having a good time...Then I grew up and he didn't. I'm not a WAW per se there are other extenuating circumstances that caused the break down of our marriage but this is a factor as well.


If you addressed the issues openly and honestly and spoke with your H about your concerns and about your feelings then you are not a WAW. A WAW usually claims that she has done everything possible to save the marriage - but she never discusses her concerns openly with her H or takes steps herself to repair the marriage. Usually "I tried everything" means that she has dropped hints and made oblique references in the hope that HE would do something to mend the marriage. And often these efforts just push him away.


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## Goofball (Mar 24, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> If you addressed the issues openly and honestly and spoke with your H about your concerns and about your feelings then you are not a WAW. A WAW usually claims that she has done everything possible to save the marriage - but she never discusses her concerns openly with her H or takes steps herself to repair the marriage. Usually "I tried everything" means that she has dropped hints and made oblique references in the hope that HE would do something to mend the marriage. And often these efforts just push him away.


I don't think I'm a WAW, I think I'm a spouse who tried everything and probably stayed too long to make things work so my kids would have both parents in the home, because I thought that was the best thing for them.

I was addressing the points about marrying the wrong person on a fundamental level, which is what I think happened in my situation.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

zillard said:


> I've come to the conclusion that she has/had no freakin clue what she wants.


:iagree:

Quoted. For. Truth.

I think it all boils down to that. For WASs, there may be different excuses for walking away and there may be different methods for walking away, but the root cause for their dissatisfaction is simply that they don't know want they want...

And even if they did know, they wouldn't know how to get it.

_“If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.” _ *- Lewis Carroll*


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_I think it all boils down to that. For WASs, there may be different excuses for walking away and there may be different methods for walking away, but the root cause for their dissatisfaction is simply that they don't know want they want...

And even if they did know, they wouldn't know how to get it._


True. They move on to the next person, the honeymoon phase wears off, the annoyances pile up, they realize that the relationships' foundation is cheating and lies, and he (or she) fails to make them "happy". 

All of a sudden, are they going to handle things differently than they did in their marriage? Doubtful. That involves effort, looking inward and communication. 

Then it's on to the next victim. One honeymoon after another. Like you say Pbar, they don't know what they want. 

,


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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Hey maincourse99, I just read through your thread and wanted to add my thoughts. I believe that some WAWs simply checkout. They go looking for "happiness" and they convince themselves that their spouse and/ or their marriage is preventing them from getting what they feel they deserve. They don't care about the impact on their kids, the LBS, etc. It's the epitome of selfishness. 

It's interesting to see how they turn out. It's hard to gather much data on this, especially from these websites, because most LBSs end up moving on at some point & we lose track of the WASs. As for me, 14 months post D, mine seems to be doing great (on the outside), pursuing a career in real estate (she was a SAHM) & getting along great with her BF of 9 mos. 

But then again, she excited the marriage with over 1/2 a million $$, so she's not had to struggle at all. If she marries this guy, they'll have 5 kids between them & if she works, her life will cease to be fun & games & start to get real. I would think that once the honeymoon wears off, the cycle may repeat itself but it could takes years to get to that point. 

I didn't realize our sitches were so similar. Although some may disagree, some WASs really do just up & go without making it clear they were unhappy "for years" & not wanting to try counseling or anything. I agree that some actually want to get caught in an affair so their spouses will divorce them! When I caught mine, she seemed shocked when I wanted to try counseling. But then again, I was the classic beta male "Mr. Nice Guy" for the final few years of the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Oh, & in your first post, you asked about this notion of the WAS marrying claiming they just married the "wrong person". I agree with the poster who thinks that's just another attempt at rewriting marital history. They have to find a way to justify walking away from a perfectly good marriage in their minds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

I get fed up with all the excuses we have to read through this stuff. It's always her "needs" , her this, her that . He didn't do this, he didn't do that !
I ask myself more and more these days , what about his needs , how was she with him , what was she doing in the marriage? I'd almost say 50% of wives you see out there drive their men away from them not too them once they drop the honeymoon act. I've thought that for yrs.

I get fed up seeing guys just roll over and cop the blame for all this crap. Truth is , you see in so many cases often she's just turned into a stupid shallow moron . She hasn't put any thought into the marriage either , for years. Or she's just as clueless to thing's she does that detract him not attract him and she might be a boring ***** in bed to.
Even sexually , men seem to always be getting the blame but there are just as many bad women lovers out there . They often have no clue either that sex, attraction, wanting to , actually starts from everywhere else , the bedrooms just the end of it.
They also get just as selfish and self centered as men , more from what I read by far actually . I mean "her needs" has become a household fkg word these days , whens the last time you can even remember reading anything about his needs?
Or no one ever talks about what she might have been to make him this way. Would she know a warning sign if it hit her between the eyes - not a hope in hell.
My x had mine for 4yrs and missed 3/4 of them and ignored or had excuses for the rest . They all do , I think they're actually very cunning about that angle and ride it all the way to the bank actually !

Just observations on a very definite pattern I see in every marriage forum and even counselors I've spoken to since all my stuff started !


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_Hey maincourse99, I just read through your thread and wanted to add my thoughts. I believe that some WAWs simply checkout. They go looking for "happiness" and they convince themselves that their spouse and/ or their marriage is preventing them from getting what they feel they deserve. They don't care about the impact on their kids, the LBS, etc. It's the epitome if selfishness. 

I didn't realize our sitches were so similar. Although some may disagree, some WASs really do just up & go without making it clear they were unhappy "for years" & not wanting to try counseling or anything. I agree that some actually want to get caught in an affair so their spouses will divorce them! When I caught mine, she seemed shocked when I wanted to try counseling. But then again, I was the classic beta male "Mr. Nice Guy" for the final few years of the marriage._


When I found the email that had the evidence of her cheating, she said that maybe subconsciously she wanted me to find out. Gave her the impetus to tell me about the guy she was "in Love" with. 

Who knows how long she would have continued her cheating until she got the nerve to leave.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

_I get fed up with all the excuses we have to read through this stuff. It's always her "needs" , her this, her that . He didn't do this, he didn't do that !_

I agree. But I know there are plenty of women who just want a guy who is a responsible, decisive, hardworking, loving person. They would be overjoyed to find a decent guy, so many douches out there.


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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Great Post WH! Thank you for reminding us all that making a marriage work is a two-way street. During our D, I had collected all my x's text messages & one exchange between my x & her sister (who is 20 years older than her) is relevant here.

My x was complaining about all the traveling I had to do for my job & how she was often stuck in the house with our girls during the week, etc. and that she was often bored with me (she never expressed this to me, btw).

The reply from her sister was priceless! She reminded my x that she should take a look around the beautiful 7,000 sqft house on acreage with the beautiful pool, etc. She told my x to give me a break & that all the hard work & travel I was doing to support my family & give us the amazing life we had should be appreciated.

I always liked her sister!

The point here is that many (not all) women now-a-days are constantly exposed to what I call the "Oprah-fication" of the modern woman. Women are encouraged to shed themselves of the "controlling" men in their lives and take charge of their own destinies. 

Much of the hard work & sacrifice that men make to support their families is devalued. My ex was a SAHM and instead of thanking her lucky stars, she hated it. She felt "trapped" as a wife & a mother and simply wanted out!

Men's needs are almost always completely ignored by the WAW. It's ALL about them!! It's hilarious to watch my x so infatuated by her BF now. Comical, really. I guess she feels that she "has" to put on a front of being happy, or else everyone would question why in the world she would leave such a wealthy man & terrific Father/ husband (or maybe she IS truly happy...for now).

In my view, as long as this new guy pines over her & gives her a steady supply of fuel for her narcissism, the honeymoon period will continue.

But, eventually, things WILL get "normal", their honeymoon will end, and watch-out! The reality of trying to blend 5 children into a family and the demands of running a household with both parents working, etc. will be interesting to say the least.

I think that guys end up copping the blame because we end up becoming beta-male "nice guys" over time. We become the stereotypical males who say, "yes dear" all the time, put our wives on pedestals, and try not to rock the boat. 

What I've learned (the hard way) is that women don't want this. They actually can't stand it. They will devalue everything they have when they're being catered to constantly. If they are overly narcissistic, they may stick around awhile until they completely devalue their "host" and succumb to GIG, MLC, etc.

So, I agree with your observation. Men should make sure their "needs" are being met as well!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

All the focus on them may bring some clarity, but the takeaway is this:

If you treat women like you would appreciate being treated, it won't work.

They're not men.


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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> If you addressed the issues openly and honestly and spoke with your H about your concerns and about your feelings then you are not a WAW. A WAW usually claims that she has done everything possible to save the marriage - but she never discusses her concerns openly with her H or takes steps herself to repair the marriage. Usually "I tried everything" means that she has dropped hints and made oblique references in the hope that HE would do something to mend the marriage. And often these efforts just push him away.


Voltaire, one of the best posts I've ever read about the WAW! Exactly.

What's interesting to me is what is going on inside their heads. Each person is different, of course, but I've come to the belief that there must be some underlying personality disorder driving their odd behavior. NPD, BPD, alcoholism, etc., etc. I mean, why wouldn't you want to try & fix your marriage?? How they can exit with little to no emotion after being married for 10-20 years will always be mind-boggling to me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ExisaWAW said:


> Voltaire, one of the best posts I've ever read about the WAW! Exactly.
> 
> What's interesting to me is what is going on inside their heads. Each person is different, of course, but I've come to the belief that there must be some underlying personality disorder driving their odd behavior. NPD, BPD, alcoholism, etc., etc. I mean, why wouldn't you want to try & fix your marriage?? How they can exit with little to no emotion after being married for 10-20 years will always be mind-boggling to me.


It's not a personality disorder.

It's immaturity.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> What I've learned (the hard way) is that women don't want this. They actually can't stand it. They will devalue everything they have when they're being catered to constantly. If they are overly narcissistic, they may stick around awhile until they completely devalue their "host" and succumb to GIG, MLC, etc.


Heh... It's the financial principles of supply and demand applied to relationships.

The Nice Guy is floods the market with a great product, and predictably there's suddenly no demand... the only way he can sell it is by putting it on the discount shelf for practically nothing.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It's not a personality disorder.
> 
> It's immaturity.


Which _is_ arguably a personality disorder, once you get past the age 25 or so.


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## ExisaWAW (Mar 5, 2013)

Pbartender said:


> Which _is_ arguably a personality disorder, once you get past the age 25 or so.


Conrad, I get your point. Part of my healing process was trying to "figure out" how/ why this person who I had children with, who I shared my hopes, dreams, & bed with could do this to the people she once claimed were the most important in her life with so little (if any) remorse.

So I probably over-analyzed what is, at the surface, simple immaturity & selfishness.

Pb, you're right. We're saying the same thing. There may not be an actual disorder/ box that the WAW falls into, but psychological immaturity is definitely a major component.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

People grow up at all sorts of ages.

We're just here to help the process along


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

They have to walk away. The broom they flew in on is in the shop and their flying dragon is sick.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> Part of my healing process was trying to "figure out" how/ why this person who I had children with, who I shared my hopes, dreams, & bed with could do this to the people she once claimed were the most important in her life with so little (if any) remorse.





ExisaWAW said:


> I believe that some WAWs simply checkout. They go looking for "happiness" and they convince themselves that their spouse and/ or their marriage is preventing them from getting what they feel they deserve. They don't care about the impact on their kids, the LBS, etc. It's the epitome of selfishness.


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> The point here is that many (not all) women now-a-days are constantly exposed to what I call the "Oprah-fication" of the modern woman. Women are encouraged to shed themselves of the "controlling" men in their lives and take charge of their own destinies.
> !


Don't even get me started on that sow


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> The point here is that many (not all) women now-a-days are constantly exposed to what I call the "Oprah-fication" of the modern woman. Women are encouraged to shed themselves of the "controlling" men in their lives and take charge of their own destinies.
> !


Don't even get me started on that sow


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

ExisaWAW said:


> Great Post WH! Thank you for reminding us all that making a marriage work is a two-way street. During our D, I had collected all my x's text messages & one exchange between my x & her sister (who is 20 years older than her) is relevant here.
> 
> My x was complaining about all the traveling I had to do for my job & how she was often stuck in the house with our girls during the week, etc. and that she was often bored with me (she never expressed this to me, btw).
> 
> ...


Thanks Ex and I'll just say , great post . Man there are so many huge valid points in this one I wouldn't even know where to begin though so I'll just agree.

What a great come back from the sister BTW , so glad a female from outside could
actually see that and gave her a serve.

Can't work out why the ex wouldn't just get a job or something to if she didn't wanna be at home , that's what a lot of the girls do , pretty simple. And, it helps take a load of her husband too !
He can be at home more , they can be together more , win win.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Stretch said:


> Don't even get me started on that sow


Not kidding Stretch and Ex ! My x is coming down right now after a taste of the real world - The X Show , she doesn't seem all that impressed either , what a surprise !


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> I get fed up with all the excuses we have to read through this stuff. It's always her "needs" , her this, her that . He didn't do this, he didn't do that !
> I ask myself more and more these days , what about his needs , how was she with him , what was she doing in the marriage? I'd almost say 50% of wives you see out there drive their men away from them not too them once they drop the honeymoon act. I've thought that for yrs.


I asked my WAW what she actually did to repair our marriage or to address the issues if the whole thing was so awful for her. She replied that she just gave up.



ExisaWAW said:


> The point here is that many (not all) women now-a-days are constantly exposed to what I call the "Oprah-fication" of the modern woman. Women are encouraged to shed themselves of the "controlling" men in their lives and take charge of their own destinies.


A lady posted on the CWI section yesterday that women like men who take control. I replied that they like it right up to the point when they are ready to ditch the man, when suddenly that romantic Alpha "being in charge" thing that was so wonderful at the beginning is re-cast as being nasty, controlling and unreasonable. 




ExisaWAW said:


> Voltaire, one of the best posts I've ever read about the WAW! Exactly.


Thank you



ExisaWAW said:


> What's interesting to me is what is going on inside their heads. Each person is different, of course, but I've come to the belief that there must be some underlying personality disorder driving their odd behavior. NPD, BPD, alcoholism, etc., etc. I mean, why wouldn't you want to try & fix your marriage?? How they can exit with little to no emotion after being married for 10-20 years will always be mind-boggling to me.


I don't even think that it's straightforward selfishness....I think a lot of these women get a very fixed idea into their head that they deserve happiness, they need happiness, and there is only one way to get it. A lot of that is peer pressure and a lot is the media. It is well documented that divorce is infectious amongst groups of women.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> A lady posted on the CWI section yesterday that women like men who take control. I replied that they like it right up to the point when they are ready to ditch the man, when suddenly that romantic Alpha "being in charge" thing that was so wonderful at the beginning is re-cast as being nasty, controlling and unreasonable.


Much like many women who will say that they want a sensitive, caring man... But when things start going south, she sudden sees those traits as clingy... wish-washy... wimpy...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pbartender said:


> Much like many women who will say that they want a sensitive, caring man... But when things start going south, she sudden sees those traits as clingy... wish-washy... wimpy...


They like men with healthy boundaries - always.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> I get fed up with all the excuses we have to read through this stuff. It's always her "needs" , her this, her that . He didn't do this, he didn't do that !
> I ask myself more and more these days , what about his needs , how was she with him , what was she doing in the marriage? I'd almost say 50% of wives you see out there drive their men away from them not too them once they drop the honeymoon act. I've thought that for yrs.
> 
> I get fed up seeing guys just roll over and cop the blame for all this crap. Truth is , you see in so many cases often she's just turned into a stupid shallow moron . She hasn't put any thought into the marriage either , for years. Or she's just as clueless to thing's she does that detract him not attract him and she might be a boring ***** in bed to.
> ...


This is one of the best posts I've read here for a long time.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Thanks Alpha .


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## Bullwinkle (Feb 4, 2013)

This is good stuff. I gotta start following this thread more closely, you guys are speaking my language.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

WAWs in their own words...

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/divorce-busting/200803/the-walkaway-wife-syndrome/comments


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

That's an interesting article, SS. It's a very complicated thing because people are complicated and two people getting together with all the family and financial pressures, and add in the various temptations to cheat that arise, it makes it very challenging. 

I can only go by a small sampling from on here and in my own situation, but I think in so many cases there is not any clear communication of unhappiness. Many times I thought about what life would be like if I wasn't married to my wife. I considered leaving more than once.

Thing is, I was realistic about marriage. The good outweighed the bad by quite a bit. I know for a fact because my ex has told me that as she looks back on 18 years, it was good and she misses it. She never mentions coming back, maybe she really is in love with POSOM.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Give it time, MC. Things are still settling for both of you. You never know what the future holds.

Regarding the general WAW phenomenon, it's probably too difficult to say. Certainly there are women who tried and tried but their husbands just weren't fulfilling his duties in a normal way like you and I would. Maybe the husbands felt nagged or disrespected and that whole avoidance cycle started. Who knows? You can't really know until you sit down with a couple. 

However, I do wince when I see WAWs talk about begging their husbands for months or years, crying because they felt neglected and their husbands did nothing. I think some of these women are completely exaggerating. There was a woman on TAM who was so upset because she felt she tried "countless" (I think that is the word she used) times to speak with her husband about what upset her. But when I dug at it with her, it came out that it was really only a few or "several" times, and it wasn't even clear about the form of communication. That got me thinking about how to read these posts by WAWs.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> I think that there are two different issues that are being mixed together here. There is what goes on in the marriage, and then there is the way in which the marriage is brought to an end.
> 
> I think that most spouses with a walk away wife/husband would acknowledge that they made mistakes in the marriage - and in many cases those mistakes include missing some vital clues that their spouse wasn't happy as well as not paying enough attention to their spouse.
> 
> ...


Great points Voltaire. The woman I live with now is much different than the woman I thought I had three months ago when I found out she was leaving. She'd finished grad school and was just waiting for an opportunity to point to why she was leaving and she had been for years. Now, plenty of history re-writing of how unhappy she's been since the start. Throughout she's lied to me about direct questions about her happiness. I planned dates, bought little gifts, wrote cards, told her she is beautiful, held her hand while we fell asleep, etc. That didn't matter, at some point she decided she didn't want to be with me anymore and then she kept up a facade for at least a year, maybe two, while she was in grad school of the same level of happiness. Once grad school was done and she could support herself (after our savings was wiped out and we'd been living on tightened belts for three years), she was gone. Even my 12 year old noticed the timing and called it out. How can someone live for that long with a facade of love and meanwhile be planning the demise of the relationship? Yuck.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> If you addressed the issues openly and honestly and spoke with your H about your concerns and about your feelings then you are not a WAW. A WAW usually claims that she has done everything possible to save the marriage - but she never discusses her concerns openly with her H or takes steps herself to repair the marriage. Usually "I tried everything" means that she has dropped hints and made oblique references in the hope that HE would do something to mend the marriage. And often these efforts just push him away.


Truth brother. All truth. This is exactly the script I've been hearing.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Angstire, it's hard to figure it all out. Comes down to selfishness, she really used you. Mine did the same thing, once she found her AP, she had her way out. 

There's nothing you can do, can't control another person. Sorry you're going through this, you'll find someone better if you choose to.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> I can only go by a small sampling from on here and in my own situation, but I think in so many cases there is not any clear communication of unhappiness. Many times I thought about what life would be like if I wasn't married to my wife. I considered leaving more than once.
> 
> Thing is, I was realistic about marriage. The good outweighed the bad by quite a bit. I know for a fact because my ex has told me that as she looks back on 18 years, it was good and she misses it. She never mentions coming back, maybe she really is in love with POSOM.


:iagree: Lots of good, some bad, some just bleh. Kids, taxes, housework, work-work, family, etc. A lot to just deal with to get through the days. High spots of vacations and dates, low spots of fights or illness or sad days. But all in all, much worth the effort to be together. And then to harbor a plan for years to leave and walk away and say she tried so hard and is surprised that I'm surprised. I don't get it and I don't think I ever will.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> Angstire, it's hard to figure it all out. Comes down to selfishness, she really used you. Mine did the same thing, once she found her AP, she had her way out.
> 
> There's nothing you can do, can't control another person. Sorry you're going through this, you'll find someone better if you choose to.


Thanks MC, even last night I had a dream about reconciling. Luckily, those feelings were gone 5 minutes after I woke up; so that's progress, I think. 

Sorry for your situation and thanks for starting the thread. I've been looking for answers and TAM is helping that I can read other people's stories and see that what I'm hearing about how hard she tried is consistent with many others' stories.


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## maincourse99 (Aug 15, 2012)

Definitely a common story on here. Getting blindsided is brutal. Relationships have ups and downs, the honeymoon stage ends and then the real work begins, IMO. Any cheating on her part, Angstire?


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

maincourse99 said:


> _I get fed up with all the excuses we have to read through this stuff. It's always her "needs" , her this, her that . He didn't do this, he didn't do that !_
> 
> I agree. But I know there are plenty of women who just want a guy who is a responsible, decisive, hardworking, loving person. They would be overjoyed to find a decent guy, so many douches out there.


Point is, no , there's just as many douchesses - gone are the days just being 'female' or a 'mother' - another popular goody, is an automatic assumption of she can do no wrong,forget it. 
If anything they're actually worse than guys , just read through this place at what some of them have done but oh wait - that's still automatically somehow all his fault isn't it.
And yep , plenty of guys out there that would love a women like that too. 2/3 of the guys here were exactly that and look where that got them , they thought they had a women like that!


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

maincourse99 said:


> Definitely a common story on here. Getting blindsided is brutal. Relationships have ups and downs, the honeymoon stage ends and then the real work begins, IMO. Any cheating on her part, Angstire?


Nope, I've been through her stuff (phone, email, fb) to learn more about what the hell happened. Now that I have those answers, I'm respecting her privacy. She's leaving me for herself, not an OM. Now that she can work again in a good job (which she had, but hated before she started grad school), she can afford to be on her own. It will be very tight for her financially, but she wants to be alone for a variety of reasons and my usefulness to her is at an end. She could have told me she was done halfway through school and moved in with her mom to finish. I would have appreciated the honesty and introspection from her.


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## angstire (Jun 4, 2013)

There's been a couple of mentions of the Mr. Nice Guy. Is that a thing I can read more about? I really treated my WAW and her kids well and I'd rather not play games and be a d1ck or whatever just to keep the next relationship, but maybes there's some ground rules I need to know. Really sucks to be 42 and still trying to figure out how to have relationships with women.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Exactly ! And l'd say to these mystery women that 'could' truly go the distance-50-60yrs,through the thick, through the thin, GIVE , as good as they get with a good bloke - if l was you l'd put a sign on my head because you are a rare one and deserve a good bloke!


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

angstire said:


> There's been a couple of mentions of the Mr. Nice Guy. Is that a thing I can read more about? I really treated my WAW and her kids well and I'd rather not play games and be a d1ck or whatever just to keep the next relationship, but maybes there's some ground rules I need to know. Really sucks to be 42 and still trying to figure out how to have relationships with women.


Link to book on Amazon. Take what you can from it. You won't see yourself in all of it. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0762415339/ref=redir_mdp_mobile

You will always be learning Angstire.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> If you addressed the issues openly and honestly and spoke with your H about your concerns and about your feelings then you are not a WAW. A WAW usually claims that she has done everything possible to save the marriage - but she never discusses her concerns openly with her H or takes steps herself to repair the marriage. Usually "I tried everything" means that she has dropped hints and made oblique references in the hope that HE would do something to mend the marriage. And often these efforts just push him away.


I'm late to this conversation but I can't agree more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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