# Betrayed and divorcing



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Dated wife for 3 months, got pregnant. I married her, thinking it was honorable, and she wanted to, and we were quite into each other....but who isnt 3 mos into a new relationship? Plus we were both in the 35-40 range, and had been thru our share of relationships. However, it was my 1st marriage, and I would be her *gulp* 3rd....and neither one of them had lasted past 2 yrs, and of course she was the unsuspecting victim....i know, red flag. 
Anyway, we end up moving out of state to a better job oppty, settle into a nice neighborhood, i worked, she raised the kids. We end up having 3 in total. We struggled pretty early on -- she was controlling, and had no tolerance for any mistakes i'd make, or for my family, or her own extended family for that matter. She would isolate me and the kids from family and neighbors...i felt like we were on an island. She spent a lot of time being pregnant and recovering, so very inconsistent...more like nonexistent...sex life. She would get intensely angry if I did something wrong, especially if I forgot something she told me months ago -- so much so the only way i could deal with her was to avoid any stressful topic, or just avoid her altogether, and just respond to what she had on her mind. So, not really a happy existence between us, despite having 3 kids...we had talked about counseling at various times, but never followed through on it -- something always came up. Rarely did we even go out on date nights...oh, and we never even slept in the same bed...she was always either uncomfortable with her pregnancies, or was too angry with me, then started saying i smelled, or whatever....soon the resentment between us on how we felt each other was being treated became so much that we basically became household business partners. I had a hard time communicating with her, I always felt like she'd lash out at me, say something insulting, sarcastic, or condescending, and even when it seemed she was in a good mood, I felt like there was nothing to talk about other than the kids. 
Anyway, we have our 3rd kid last july....then her behavior started to change....she wanted to visit her friends out of state, she started buying new clothes, hair appts, starting working out...I thought it was just her working to recover from the birth....so in Nov, she takes her trip, returns, and says she wants to see her friends a lot more and plans an early jan trip, post holidays. Shen then goes on to say she wants a separation agreement so she can have some 'space'...and that we would then pursue counseling. But, 2 wks before that trip to see her 'friends', i discover she'd started an online affair over the summer, she met him on her first trip, and now she is meeting him again in jan. He is married, has his own 3 kids, lives 1000miles away. I tell her, if she goes on the trip that I will file for divorce, since going to counseling after she returns from her affair trip that I'm fully aware of makes no sense to me. After a week of thinking about it, she took the trip, and I filed. She followed that up with another 5 day trip 3 wks later, and is now on a 17day trip! (about 30 days traveling so far this year!) Leaving our 5, 3, and 8m old at home for me to take care of! So we continue down the divorce path, but I keep wondering if I'm doing the right thing. I felt maybe I filed too quickly, not giving a chance for counseling....i wonder if she would have even gone since we'd of course talk about the affair trip she just returned from! plus the marriage was such a struggle my therapist said to file and move on from this, the kids will be better off not seeing this dysfunctional relationship. but for some reason I have a slight regret about it.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You did the right thing by filing. Even if you have not spoken about all your own POS tendencies, your account has so many facts that suggest there is no hope. As you note, she had two failed marriages before yours. She got pregnant shortly after you began dating.

"Oops, honey just miscounted the cycle by a few days!"

She has some sort of borderline personality disorder or is dysfunctional because of childhood issues. Not easy to fix. Should have been by early 30s at the latest.

A cheater... hmm... how did the other marriages end? What would suggest that she will ever stop the destructive behavior?

You laid down an appropriate marital boundary – no affairs – she utterly blew you off. There is no reason to believe she wants to reconcile.

Deserted her own small children to pursue a man who is married and has kids. Better file for sole custody. 

How is your job holding up with all the turmoil. 

You must be reviewing all of this in your own mind and wondering how your judgment failed you. Now can you afford to make more mistakes?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Everyone says it was right to do that...just hard to be the one that has to do it. Pregnancy...i know, what a joke...although i should have been more careful, but you'd think she would have been being the one that has to give birth! Anyway, no doubt childhood issues....alcoholic dad, mom was distant, and she was also the product of an unexpected pregnancy....And yes, she made her choice no doubt re affair....she's in the fog of it and addicted to the rush of it.....cant believe this guy is complicit....but who knows what she is telling him. 
Custody -- dads always get screwed, but she is giving me a lot of ammo....she even submitted a 600/mo travel budget, even tho we never traveled much at all given the young kids. 
Job is holding up ok...finally able to concentrate on it.
I just wish I didnt have to see her anymore, but with kids, its unavoidable


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Dated wife for 3 months, got pregnant. I married her, thinking it was honorable, and she wanted to, and we were quite into each other....but who isnt 3 mos into a new relationship? Plus we were both in the 35-40 range, and had been thru our share of relationships. However, it was my 1st marriage, and I would be her *gulp* 3rd....and neither one of them had lasted past 2 yrs, and of course she was the unsuspecting victim....i know, red flag.
> Anyway, we end up moving out of state to a better job oppty, settle into a nice neighborhood, i worked, she raised the kids. We end up having 3 in total. We struggled pretty early on -- she was controlling, and had no tolerance for any mistakes i'd make, or for my family, or her own extended family for that matter. She would isolate me and the kids from family and neighbors...i felt like we were on an island. She spent a lot of time being pregnant and recovering, so very inconsistent...more like nonexistent...sex life. She would get intensely angry if I did something wrong, especially if I forgot something she told me months ago -- so much so the only way i could deal with her was to avoid any stressful topic, or just avoid her altogether, and just respond to what she had on her mind. So, not really a happy existence between us, despite having 3 kids...we had talked about counseling at various times, but never followed through on it -- something always came up. Rarely did we even go out on date nights...oh, and we never even slept in the same bed...she was always either uncomfortable with her pregnancies, or was too angry with me, then started saying i smelled, or whatever....soon the resentment between us on how we felt each other was being treated became so much that we basically became household business partners. I had a hard time communicating with her, I always felt like she'd lash out at me, say something insulting, sarcastic, or condescending, and even when it seemed she was in a good mood, I felt like there was nothing to talk about other than the kids.
> Anyway, we have our 3rd kid last july....then her behavior started to change....she wanted to visit her friends out of state, she started buying new clothes, hair appts, starting working out...I thought it was just her working to recover from the birth....so in Nov, she takes her trip, returns, and says she wants to see her friends a lot more and plans an early jan trip, post holidays. Shen then goes on to say she wants a separation agreement so she can have some 'space'...and that we would then pursue counseling. But, 2 wks before that trip to see her 'friends', i discover she'd started an online affair over the summer, she met him on her first trip, and now she is meeting him again in jan. He is married, has his own 3 kids, lives 1000miles away. I tell her, if she goes on the trip that I will file for divorce, since going to counseling after she returns from her affair trip that I'm fully aware of makes no sense to me. After a week of thinking about it, she took the trip, and I filed. She followed that up with another 5 day trip 3 wks later, and is now on a 17day trip! (about 30 days traveling so far this year!) Leaving our 5, 3, and 8m old at home for me to take care of! So we continue down the divorce path, but I keep wondering if I'm doing the right thing. I felt maybe I filed too quickly, not giving a chance for counseling....i wonder if she would have even gone since we'd of course talk about the affair trip she just returned from! plus the marriage was such a struggle my therapist said to file and move on from this, the kids will be better off not seeing this dysfunctional relationship. but for some reason I have a slight regret about it.


Have you spoken to his wife?

Crush the affair. Immediately.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Have you spoken to his wife?
> 
> Crush the affair. Immediately.


I thought about exposing it to his wife. But I wanted to wait til after this divorce is done so I don't have my stbx making life more difficult for me because I screwed up her fantasy life. Even afterward...not sure. This idiot may try to screw up my life somehow -- he's obviously of low moral character, and if he's thrown out, he'll do something stupid as revenge. I have enough info on him to crush him, his career, military pension -- he's wrapped up in his community with church (teaches sunday school with wife for gods sake...classy) and some family owned bizs, so I doubt he's about to dump all that for my disturbed wife....so, I think this will all collapse on itself in due time and I don't have to do a thing


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> I thought about exposing it to his wife. But I wanted to wait til after this divorce is done so I don't have my stbx making life more difficult for me because I screwed up her fantasy life. Even afterward...not sure. This idiot may try to screw up my life somehow -- he's obviously of low moral character, and if he's thrown out, he'll do something stupid as revenge. I have enough info on him to crush him, his career, military pension -- he's wrapped up in his community with church (teaches sunday school with wife for gods sake...classy) and some family owned bizs, so I doubt he's about to dump all that for my disturbed wife....so, I think this will all collapse on itself in due time and I don't have to do a thing


Would you say not standing up for yourself has been a pattern in your relationship?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Would you say not standing up for yourself has been a pattern in your relationship?


Yes. I did initially, but I began to recognize that what was important to her were things that I did not consider part of a relationship based on love -- rather it seemed what was important was whether I took the garbage out, or did this or did that,...i.e i was an appliance, and when it didnt function the way she expected I was tossed out. 

But yes, I think that is a pattern. I acquiesced too easily, mostly to avoid her usual abrasive and insensitive manner of arguing with me. And her way of complaining about things that suddenly became a top priority to her, while I was still working on things that were priorities last week.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Yes. I did initially, but I began to recognize that what was important to her were things that I did not consider part of a relationship based on love -- rather it seemed what was important was whether I took the garbage out, or did this or did that,...i.e i was an appliance, and when it didnt function the way she expected I was tossed out.
> 
> But yes, I think that is a pattern. I acquiesced too easily, mostly to avoid her usual abrasive and insensitive manner of arguing with me. And her way of complaining about things that suddenly became a top priority to her, while I was still working on things that were priorities last week.


Is there anything to salvage here, in your opinion?

Or, have you called in the dogs and just decided it's her fault?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Is there anything to salvage here, in your opinion?
> 
> Or, have you called in the dogs and just decided it's her fault?


That is why I am conflicted. The only thing to salvage is some sort of hope that we could both change ourselves to be more of the person we hoped each other could be....not really a convincing reason to give it a shot. The state of the marriage is both of our doing, but it was her choice to move onto an affair. It really feels like she chose to just move on to a new relationship, not just a fling. But even after I found out, she chose to continue it, while at the same time suggesting counseling. That just doesn't work for me. It would just continue the pattern of me doing whatever she wants...and in this case it felt absurd to continue an affair right in front of me and then turn around and begin counseling. Its this self-centered/self-indulgent pattern with seemingly no consideration of its impact on me or the marriage that has me thinking there is not much to salvage. I think she wanted to move on but didn't want to be the one to file, so she could somehow in her mind be the victim here.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> That is why I am conflicted. The only thing to salvage is some sort of hope that we could both change ourselves to be more of the person we hoped each other could be....not really a convincing reason to give it a shot. The state of the marriage is both of our doing, but it was her choice to move onto an affair. It really feels like she chose to just move on to a new relationship, not just a fling. But even after I found out, she chose to continue it, while at the same time suggesting counseling. That just doesn't work for me. It would just continue the pattern of me doing whatever she wants...and in this case it felt absurd to continue an affair right in front of me and then turn around and begin counseling. Its this self-centered/self-indulgent pattern with seemingly no consideration of its impact on me or the marriage that has me thinking there is not much to salvage. I think she wanted to move on but didn't want to be the one to file, so she could somehow in her mind be the victim here.


If you're not sure, blow it up.

Crush it.

This will set a new tone.

You are not to be trifled with.

See how she responds.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> If you're not sure, blow it up.
> 
> Crush it.
> 
> ...


When I first found out about the affair, I showed up 2 days later and said lets end this now, but didn't go into detail about the why...we had already talked about separating, so I just said this isnt working, so lets end it. The next day I saw her she looked like she hadnt slept the whole night, visibly stressed, and I felt bad about it...and I backtracked a bit, saying I wasnt sure. I had started seeing a therapist when she had first said she needed 'space'....so my therapist said u have to confront her about the affair, and be firm about what you want. So I returned and confronted her, which she denied, but I had evidence...she blamed me for her affair of course, asking me what did I expect to happen? 
Anyway, that was before her 2nd affair trip -- and when I said i'd file if she went I meant it...she said she was going, so i filed, and havent given her any reason that I'd change my mind. Which I think has compelled her to see this new guy as often as she can, which has been a LOT this year....so that is a new tone, we are moving down the path, we've had the initial court meeting, custody and financial parts are coming up within the next 4 wks. I'm not planning on looking back. She seems to be set on stealing him away from his wife I guess...she has professed her love for him, so they are an item i suppose, as much as 2 cheaters can be an item anyway....


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> When I first found out about the affair, I showed up 2 days later and said lets end this now, but didn't go into detail about the why...we had already talked about separating, so I just said this isnt working, so lets end it. The next day I saw her she looked like she hadnt slept the whole night, visibly stressed, and I felt bad about it...and I backtracked a bit, saying I wasnt sure. I had started seeing a therapist when she had first said she needed 'space'....so my therapist said u have to confront her about the affair, and be firm about what you want. So I returned and confronted her, which she denied, but I had evidence...she blamed me for her affair of course, asking me what did I expect to happen?
> Anyway, that was before her 2nd affair trip -- and when I said i'd file if she went I meant it...she said she was going, so i filed, and havent given her any reason that I'd change my mind. Which I think has compelled her to see this new guy as often as she can, which has been a LOT this year....so that is a new tone, we are moving down the path, we've had the initial court meeting, custody and financial parts are coming up within the next 4 wks. I'm not planning on looking back. She seems to be set on stealing him away from his wife I guess...she has professed her love for him, so they are an item i suppose, as much as 2 cheaters can be an item anyway....


Keeping the details secret makes it easy for them to lie.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Keeping the details secret makes it easy for them to lie.


yeah, well, affairs are built on lies, which is why they typically flame out in the end. Eventually rational thought emerges when the thrill of the affair wears thin...guilt, remorse, fear their affair partner will cheat on them as well...
Thats why its so strange to think she is willing to give up this life she has with me and the kids for some fantasy life that has an awful record of ever working out....she either didn't think she'd have to give it up, or maybe she thought her life with us was the fantasy?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> yeah, well, affairs are built on lies, which is why they typically flame out in the end. Eventually rational thought emerges when the thrill of the affair wears thin...guilt, remorse, fear their affair partner will cheat on them as well...
> Thats why its so strange to think she is willing to give up this life she has with me and the kids for some fantasy life that has an awful record of ever working out....she either didn't think she'd have to give it up, or maybe she thought her life with us was the fantasy?


Who cares what she thinks?

What do you think?

You think this is ok?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Who cares what she thinks?
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> You think this is ok?


no, its not ok. its hurtful, and a dealbreaker. And a very good reason to finally end what has been a difficult and unsatisfying marriage. 

I think i'm stuck on this cuz i had assumptions about who she was and how she would deal with things....which were erroneous to say the least. I'm convinced she'll never change her ways to be happy with me...her methods of conflict resolution have been consistent with me and everyone else I know who has dealt with her. I think it would be naive of me to think she's capable of the self-awareness needed to be happy in an intimate relationship.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> no, its not ok. its hurtful, and a dealbreaker. And a very good reason to finally end what has been a difficult and unsatisfying marriage.
> 
> I think i'm stuck on this cuz i had assumptions about who she was and how she would deal with things....which were erroneous to say the least. I'm convinced she'll never change her ways to be happy with me...her methods of conflict resolution have been consistent with me and everyone else I know who has dealt with her. I think it would be naive of me to think she's capable of the self-awareness needed to be happy in an intimate relationship.


Then blow it up.

See if you're right.

Making it easy for her reinforces the message that you're a doormat and not worthy of consideration.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Then blow it up.
> 
> See if you're right.
> 
> Making it easy for her reinforces the message that you're a doormat and not worthy of consideration.


yep...u are right....fuse is already lit....just need to stay the course and we can all move on to better times

thx for the feedback


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

uhboy said:


> Yes. I did initially, but I began to recognize that what was important to her were things that I did not consider part of a relationship based on love -- rather it seemed what was important was whether I took the garbage out, or did this or did that,...i.e i was an appliance, and when it didnt function the way she expected I was tossed out.
> 
> But yes, I think that is a pattern. I acquiesced too easily, mostly to avoid her usual abrasive and insensitive manner of arguing with me. And her way of complaining about things that suddenly became a top priority to her, while I was still working on things that were priorities last week.


This made me cringe when I read it because I can relate to your perspective regarding still working on priorities or complaints from the previous week while new complaints are thrown in your face the next. We all have made our mistakes but I don't doubt from what I have read from you that you were giving it one hell of a shot to try and make it work. In fact, I think you are now being punished for doing too much. You lost yourself while walking on eggshells around her. 

I agree with LongWalk regarding her possibly having mental health issues such as BPD. Do you think there is a possibility that she suffers from Postpartum Depression? I read that you have an 8 month old child. Postpartum Depression typically shows up within 3 months to a year after childbirth. Women have a higher chance of suffering from Postpartum Depression if the pregnancy was unplanned or they have previously experienced mental health issues such as anxiety. Having a poor relationship with a significant other could also be a trigger. It's something consider. If she's had three children back to back there is a chance she could have a serious chemical imbalance. 

I found it interesting that this is her 3rd marriage. It's too bad you didn't have the ability to find out the other side of the story on those relationships. I get a sense that she uses men for the stability they offer her life at the time she meets them over a healthy/loving relationship. Having an affair with a married man that is heavily involved in the community and his family life isn't going to go very far and in the back of her mind I think she knows that. She's using him as an escape. As Conrad suggests, I think you should expose the affair. Either way, you have a long painful path ahead of you. I wouldn't worry about the repercussions you feel may come your way from her. Besides she never has to know it was use that exposed them. She has 3 children at home including an 8 month old baby. It's vital that the children have their mother around especially the 8 month old because his develop and future adult-hood rely on the bonding and care he receives at this period in life from his caregivers especially his mother. How selfish and inconsiderate of her. 

Check in with TAM often. I've come across some priceless advice here. Take good care of yourself and put yourself first. You can't be the best dad or employee you can be when you don't make yourself and your health a priority. Don't second guess yourself regarding your decision to file. She had the opportunity to drop the affair and get into therapy. She had the choice to stay or go. She chose to go. She chose to leave her children behind and has done so over and over again. That right there should be enough for you to be confident in your decision.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

uhboy said:


> Dated wife for 3 months, got pregnant. I married her, thinking it was honorable, and she wanted to, and we were quite into each other....but who isnt 3 mos into a new relationship? Plus we were both in the 35-40 range, and had been thru our share of relationships. However, it was my 1st marriage, and I would be her *gulp* 3rd....and neither one of them had lasted past 2 yrs, and of course she was the unsuspecting victim....i know, red flag.
> Anyway, we end up moving out of state to a better job oppty, settle into a nice neighborhood, i worked, she raised the kids. We end up having 3 in total. We struggled pretty early on -- she was controlling, and had no tolerance for any mistakes i'd make, or for my family, or her own extended family for that matter. She would isolate me and the kids from family and neighbors...i felt like we were on an island. She spent a lot of time being pregnant and recovering, so very inconsistent...more like nonexistent...sex life. She would get intensely angry if I did something wrong, especially if I forgot something she told me months ago -- so much so the only way i could deal with her was to avoid any stressful topic, or just avoid her altogether, and just respond to what she had on her mind. So, not really a happy existence between us, despite having 3 kids...we had talked about counseling at various times, but never followed through on it -- something always came up. Rarely did we even go out on date nights...oh, and we never even slept in the same bed...she was always either uncomfortable with her pregnancies, or was too angry with me, then started saying i smelled, or whatever....soon the resentment between us on how we felt each other was being treated became so much that we basically became household business partners. I had a hard time communicating with her, I always felt like she'd lash out at me, say something insulting, sarcastic, or condescending, and even when it seemed she was in a good mood, I felt like there was nothing to talk about other than the kids.
> Anyway, we have our 3rd kid last july....then her behavior started to change....she wanted to visit her friends out of state, she started buying new clothes, hair appts, starting working out...I thought it was just her working to recover from the birth....so in Nov, she takes her trip, returns, and says she wants to see her friends a lot more and plans an early jan trip, post holidays. Shen then goes on to say she wants a separation agreement so she can have some 'space'...and that we would then pursue counseling. But, 2 wks before that trip to see her 'friends', i discover she'd started an online affair over the summer, she met him on her first trip, and now she is meeting him again in jan. He is married, has his own 3 kids, lives 1000miles away. I tell her, if she goes on the trip that I will file for divorce, since going to counseling after she returns from her affair trip that I'm fully aware of makes no sense to me. After a week of thinking about it, she took the trip, and I filed. She followed that up with another 5 day trip 3 wks later, and is now on a 17day trip! (about 30 days traveling so far this year!) Leaving our 5, 3, and 8m old at home for me to take care of! So we continue down the divorce path, but I keep wondering if I'm doing the right thing. I felt maybe I filed too quickly, not giving a chance for counseling....i wonder if she would have even gone since we'd of course talk about the affair trip she just returned from! plus the marriage was such a struggle my therapist said to file and move on from this, the kids will be better off not seeing this dysfunctional relationship. but for some reason I have a slight regret about it.


You certain they are all your kids? Sorry to put this in 
Your mind but you have to be sure. I had a paternity test done on one of my daughters to be certain. Was good piece of mind after my x wives affair. Something to consider.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> no, its not ok. its hurtful, and a dealbreaker. And a very good reason to finally end what has been a difficult and unsatisfying marriage.
> 
> I think i'm stuck on this cuz i had assumptions about who she was and how she would deal with things....which were erroneous to say the least. I'm convinced she'll never change her ways to be happy with me...her methods of conflict resolution have been consistent with me and everyone else I know who has dealt with her. I think it would be naive of me to think she's capable of the self-awareness needed to be happy in an intimate relationship.


Then blow it out of the water.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Then blow it out of the water.


You have nothing to lose at this point.
DNA the kids also please.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

ICLH said:


> This made me cringe when I read it because I can relate to your perspective...... In fact, I think you are now being punished for doing too much. You lost yourself while walking on eggshells around her.
> 
> I agree with LongWalk regarding her possibly having mental health issues....
> 
> I found it interesting that this is her 3rd marriage. It's too bad you didn't have the ability to find out the other side of the story on those relationships. I get a sense that she uses men for the stability they offer her life at the time she meets them over a healthy/loving relationship. Having an affair with a married man that is heavily involved in the community and his family life isn't going to go very far and in the back of her mind I think she knows that. She's using him as an escape.


ICLH hit it out of the ballpark. 

This woman uses men. She's selfish. She considers marriage as a transitional arrangement and if she's unhappy she breaks the partnership and moves on. She has no concept of the meaning of love, marriage and commitment. 

Don't get angry or bitter, just get out. You're better off without her. 

I'm cringing too. It's creepy. Mine dumped me like people change the channel on the television. My first marriage, her third.

We were used. It happens. Try not to take it personally.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ICLH said:


> You lost yourself while walking on eggshells around her.
> 
> I agree with LongWalk regarding her possibly having mental health issues such as BPD. Do you think there is a possibility that she suffers from Postpartum Depression?
> 
> ...


Definitely felt like I lost myself -- I felt like a cog in her life, going through the motions: leave work by 5, come home take care of kids, put them to bed, 30m for myself, then repeat...wkends, usually accommodate whatever plans she had. 

Postpartum is a very likely possibility given the timing of it, although we'd been having a difficult year leading up to the birth...i just figured it was the usual hormonal pregnancy stuff and I did my best to keep her moodiness in perspective. Family members of mine suspect some sort of emotional disorder. I read somewhere if u want an idea of what its like to be married to her, just look at her own family...i should have known. Her expectations are unrealistic and then punishes you for not fulfilling them, usually in an insulting/caustic way. It just eroded our relationship over time. 

I think she'd assume I exposed the affair regardless of who did it. We have a custody meeting soon, where this attachment concept for our infant will be highlighted. I know she knows about it, I think she is just needing the emotional relief this affair offers despite the egregious selfishness of it. 

I know she chose to go...it just seems like such a high price to give up everything right now with young kids, a house, lifestyle, etc...but then again it probably seems very reasonable to her.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you know the OM's wife's telephone number? Call her today. Put the OM up on Cheaterville.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> ICLH hit it out of the ballpark.
> 
> This woman uses men. She's selfish. She considers marriage as a transitional arrangement and if she's unhappy she breaks the partnership and moves on. She has no concept of the meaning of love, marriage and commitment.
> 
> ...


Seems to fit her alright...especially the love and commitment part. She seems to 'fall in love' easily, which is really just infatuation...its the longer term ability to appreciate and love someone without conditions attached that she seems to lack. Somewhere along the line she got off track...prob chemical imbalance combined with no one her life to force her to get some help. So she leaves a trail of failed relationships that never get beyond the launchpad. 

I was bitter and angry....its fading...especially as she continues her traveling so I dont have to see her. Sorry to hear you were dumped also -- seems like its a blessing in disguise.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Do you know the OM's wife's telephone number? Call her today. Put the OM up on Cheaterville.


Yes, i know where they live, etc. I dont know what they're situation is, but from what I discovered in their communications it didnt seem like his wife was aware of the situation. But who knows, they may be separated...just doesnt seem like it.

There is the likelihood that she won't believe me, or want to believe me. So it may be better to wait til they schedule their next trip, and give her some advanced warning of it, so she can monitor the situation herself, hire a PI, or whatever. And maybe after the custody hearing.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> Seems to fit her alright...especially the love and commitment part. She seems to 'fall in love' easily, which is really just infatuation...its the longer term ability to appreciate and love someone without conditions attached that she seems to lack. Somewhere along the line she got off track...prob chemical imbalance combined with no one her life to force her to get some help. So she leaves a trail of failed relationships that never get beyond the launchpad.
> 
> I was bitter and angry....its fading...especially as she continues her traveling so I dont have to see her. Sorry to hear you were dumped also -- seems like its a blessing in disguise.


Mine has a lot of similar traits. I started to reply with examples but then I hit the backspace button and deleted. Why bother at this point, she's not worth the keystrokes. 

I have a slight head start on you but I'm not nearly healed yet. All I can suggest is get the focus off her and on you. Know that you tried to make it work but she didn't and that's not your fault. The hardest part is forgiving yourself for the decisions you made. Understand that you were acting in good faith and your mistakes, while crappy, do not justify what has happened. Don't persecute yourself for loving her and don't become angry, bitter, or isolated because she doesn't love you. 

Sure, it looks like she's "happy" now. Who cares. I mentally wish mine well right now because I know if it doesn't work out for them she's just going to hurt herself more and more with her pattern. It's no longer my concern. My attitude towards her: Good luck and don't keep in touch.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Mine has a lot of similar traits. I started to reply with examples but then I hit the backspace button and deleted. Why bother at this point, she's not worth the keystrokes.
> 
> I have a slight head start on you but I'm not nearly healed yet. All I can suggest is get the focus off her and on you. Know that you tried to make it work but she didn't and that's not your fault. The hardest part is forgiving yourself for the decisions you made. Understand that you were acting in good faith and your mistakes, while crappy, do not justify what has happened. Don't persecute yourself for loving her and don't become angry, bitter, or isolated because she doesn't love you.
> 
> Sure, it looks like she's "happy" now. Who cares. I mentally wish mine well right now because I know if it doesn't work out for them she's just going to hurt herself more and more with her pattern. It's no longer my concern. My attitude towards her: Good luck and don't keep in touch.


I know i will look back and see i made the right decision to end this sooner than later. In my case the marriage was never good...just week after week of struggle. It would be a surprise if there were 2 consecutive weeks without some sort of argument that left me wondering why we were still married. 

Do you have kids involved? I know I'll have to deal with her from time to time given our 3 young ones. Did she cheat and leave you? was there an OM wife? I feel like her fantasy world is going to collapse and I don't want to be there picking up the pieces of it. I think once we get thru this divorce I can feel like I've at least taken another big step away from this so-called marriage.


----------



## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Who is paying for all of these trips? If its you then stop now. Let her boytoy fund his own booty calls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Thound said:


> Who is paying for all of these trips? If its you then stop now. Let her boytoy fund his own booty calls.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



it comes out of her end of the settlement....so in effect, its her expense, which she hasnt figured out most likely. Hard to believe she thinks it has any chance of working out, but its a good escape for now. The guy has got to be out of his mind to give up his long term marriage/kids/wealth for her. But what do i care, im finally getting out of it.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

You need to expose ASAP.

Don't worry about her knowing it was you. In fact she needs to know it was you. Tell her you did it.

OMW likely knows something is up but, like most BS's, is ignoring the clues.

Do her a favor and let her know.

Does your state take adultery into consideration? 

It could help you with the separation of assets as well as custody.

Are you afraid she won't like you or will get mad at you for exposing?

Brother, that's been your whole marriage. What would change?


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> You need to expose ASAP.
> 
> Don't worry about her knowing it was you. In fact she needs to know it was you. Tell her you did it.
> 
> ...



Both states are no fault, so no adultery consideration. Only impact to her is the fact that she is leaving every few weeks to meet him. 

Im not afraid of her getting mad for exposing. But if she is happy, she causes fewer problems for me.

But she doesnt know who I am, so why would she believe me? I can give her details of their trips I guess, but i've heard they usually don't believe or don't want to believe you. Then he just denies it, goes on the trips anyway, and nothing changes.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> Both states are no fault, so no adultery consideration. Only impact to her is the fact that she is leaving every few weeks to meet him.
> 
> Im not afraid of her getting mad for exposing. But if she is happy, she causes fewer problems for me.
> 
> But she doesnt know who I am, so why would she believe me? I can give her details of their trips I guess, but i've heard they usually don't believe or don't want to believe you. Then he just denies it, goes on the trips anyway, and nothing changes.


When I found out who OM was I sent her a message through Facebook. 

She found the message 2 months later and called me.

She did not know me but knew who I was. 

OM and my XW had been filling her with stories for months about how crazy I was.

But in her gut she knew something was up. She had no problem believing me because I knew things that she knew.

Stories matched up and the puzzle came together.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> When I found out who OM was I sent her a message through Facebook.
> 
> She found the message 2 months later and called me.
> 
> ...


Yeah, i see i can send her a facebook email...although it doesnt look like its been updated for months. 

How did you find out about their affair? how long had it been going on? 

I guess I could convince her -- my stbx is such a paranoid person anyway she'd think I'm stalking her or something and raise the issue to a judge. Thats why I want to just get thru this stage and deal with exposure after.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> Yeah, i see i can send her a facebook email...although it doesnt look like its been updated for months.
> 
> How did you find out about their affair? how long had it been going on?
> 
> I guess I could convince her -- my stbx is such a paranoid person anyway she'd think I'm stalking her or something and raise the issue to a judge. Thats why I want to just get thru this stage and deal with exposure after.


Yeah, my XW thinks I'm stalking her too. 

I suspected something but didn't do enough work necessary to confirm.

Once D was final, people started coming out of the woodwork to tell me. Mostly HER coworkers and her (my old) neighbors.

Details of the length and level of the affair are sketchy but EA began in 2010. She filed for D in 2012 and we finalized in 2013.

If OMW has any suspicions it may be very easy for her to believe. 

You don't have to convince. That's not your job. 

You just need to give her the info and let her do with it what she wants.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> Yeah, my XW thinks I'm stalking her too.
> 
> I suspected something but didn't do enough work necessary to confirm.
> 
> ...


i discovered relatively early....but given his situation and hers, she wanted to keep us both in the picture. she'll end up alone, but i'm confident she'll charm some new unsuspecting fool into her web. 

The downside of exposing is that it pulls me into their pathetic circle...which I want to avoid. And if they split up, next thing I know he'll be visiting here to see her so they can cry on each other's shoulders.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> i discovered relatively early....but given his situation and hers, she wanted to keep us both in the picture. she'll end up alone, but i'm confident she'll charm some new unsuspecting fool into her web.
> 
> The downside of exposing is that it pulls me into their pathetic circle...which I want to avoid. And if they split up, next thing I know he'll be visiting here to see her so they can cry on each other's shoulders.


Exposing allowed me to finally leave her drama and get on in my life. 

Plus, I felt a burden of holding this knowledge without telling OMW. 

I know that I would want to know if the roles were reversed. 

That was enough to convince me.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> Exposing allowed me to finally leave her drama and get on in my life.
> 
> Plus, I felt a burden of holding this knowledge without telling OMW.
> 
> ...


The sooner you expose the sooner you can move on.
But that is your call.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> Exposing allowed me to finally leave her drama and get on in my life.
> 
> Plus, I felt a burden of holding this knowledge without telling OMW.
> 
> ...



was there any fallout from it? did he leave his wife?

it does seem that it would feel empowering and that the pain for everyone would finally start to come to an end. Its amazing it has persisted this long. They spent like 10 days together, even over V-day this month...seems strange if their marriage is still intact.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> was there any fallout from it? did he leave his wife?
> 
> 
> 
> it does seem that it would feel empowering and that the pain for everyone would finally start to come to an end. Its amazing it has persisted this long. They spent like 10 days together, even over V-day this month...seems strange if their marriage is still intact.



He told her he wanted a D. That's when she found my email. 

If we could have talked sooner maybe she could have done something. Maybe not. 

Affairs are all about lies and deceit. 

Knowing about it makes the lies apart of your life.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> i discovered relatively early....but given his situation and hers, she wanted to keep us both in the picture.


We've never heard that before

It's called Plan B.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> He told her he wanted a D. That's when she found my email.
> 
> If we could have talked sooner maybe she could have done something. Maybe not.
> 
> ...



that makes sense i guess.....the truth shall set you free?

she asked if i was going to call his family after I found out, then discouraged me because they are already going through a divorce. and im supposed to believe that since she's been so truthful about everything else....


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> that makes sense i guess.....the truth shall set you free?
> 
> she asked if i was going to call his family after I found out, then discouraged me because they are already going through a divorce. and im supposed to believe that since she's been so truthful about everything else....


Exactly.
Expose.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> We've never heard that before
> 
> It's called Plan B.




yes, of course....why give up anything if you dont have to.

i kind of hope they give it a shot...he deserves the misery he will encounter, and so does she when it all collapses.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> that makes sense i guess.....the truth shall set you free?
> 
> she asked if i was going to call his family after I found out, then discouraged me because they are already going through a divorce. and im supposed to believe that since she's been so truthful about everything else....


So many of the left-behind wonder "why" for so long.

It makes healing and recovery so much harder. 

Knowing there was a third person involved helps to answer those questions.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Uhboy,

Even though you are in a no-fault state, the adultery, abandoning her children, and week-long booty calls can be used to help you gain full custody of your kids.

Which means no child-support.

It can also impact if you will be paying alimony.

Please talk with your attorney.

BTW, perhaps its time to change the locks.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Uhboy,
> 
> Even though you are in a no-fault state, the adultery, abandoning her children, and week-long booty calls can be used to help you gain full custody of your kids.
> 
> ...


Ass.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> I know i will look back and see i made the right decision to end this sooner than later. In my case the marriage was never good...just week after week of struggle. It would be a surprise if there were 2 consecutive weeks without some sort of argument that left me wondering why we were still married.
> 
> Do you have kids involved? I know I'll have to deal with her from time to time given our 3 young ones. Did she cheat and leave you? was there an OM wife? I feel like her fantasy world is going to collapse and I don't want to be there picking up the pieces of it. I think once we get thru this divorce I can feel like I've at least taken another big step away from this so-called marriage.


I'm very lucky. We had no kids. My gut says she left for another man but I have no proof she cheated. It doesn't matter when it started but I know I've been replaced. In a way I feel bad for her. Once the fog lifts she'll realize the grass isn't greener. Even if it is, or if she never realizes that I don't care. I'm better off without her brand of love


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Uhboy,

You are assimilating the exposure iead quickly. Do you think that it is because your horse sense has been urging you to do this for some time?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Uhboy,
> 
> You are assimilating the exposure iead quickly. Do you think that it is because your horse sense has been urging you to do this for some time?


no, i think i've been wanting to but for revenge, and to eliminate what looks to me is making her happy, while I feel unhappy. That doesnt seem like a healthy rationale. I want to minimize my involvement with her, and blowing up that guy's marriage seems counterproductive to that end. Do I need the anxiety of wondering if he will retaliate? Yes, the OMW deserves to know, of course -- but i found out because i was aware enough of her changes in behavior...why is the OMW not aware of his changes in behavior/attitude? Or maybe he's good at hiding it. Who knows. I think I just need to get an agreement on this divorce first. 

But if it was not this idiot, she would have found someone else to get involved with....she was unhappy, and this is her method of choice of dealing with it.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

The suspense is killing me. I'm reading these posts, one after the other, and it seems like you are skating around the issue. EXPOSE the AFFAIR. Do it for humanity. The wife of the OM needs to know. 

What are you afraid of, really? Custody issues? You have the children the majority of the time already. She treats you like a nanny. She is either going to continue to do that or start spending more time with her kids which she needs to do. As far as having to deal with her mouth after exposure you have full control of that. You only have to listen to and communicate with her as much as you want. Expose the affair and cut her off. Refuse to have anything to do with her unless it involves the children.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

If OP is set to divorce....then exposure will only cause him more problems. Best to hit her with the D while she's in fantasyland.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> no, i think i've been wanting to but for revenge, and to eliminate what looks to me is making her happy, while I feel unhappy. That doesnt seem like a healthy rationale. I want to minimize my involvement with her, and blowing up that guy's marriage seems counterproductive to that end.


I'm impressed with your compassion for his wife.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

We have the famous Eric415 or Eric514 thread in which the debate on exposure and divorce has dragged on and on. Eric thought his WW would skip demands for alimony if he divorced peacefully. However, as time went by her true intent was revealed. She wanted reconciliation. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, she began to speak of the need for an agreement that he would never expose the affair evidence.

So for all his patience, Eric, still has a hassle. Shamwow, another excellent thread, showed that divorce could be smooth.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Not necessarily custody issues im afraid of. Its more the unknown. I worry she shared info on me to him which he could use against me...i dont have anything specific, but people do crazy sh*t when s*x is involved. 

I appreciate your views -- then I have family, some friends, and my therapist saying dont bother with it...better to focus on yourself and your kids and getting on with your life.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> Not necessarily custody issues im afraid of. Its more the unknown. I worry she shared info on me to him which he could use against me...i dont have anything specific, but people do crazy sh*t when s*x is involved.
> 
> I appreciate your views -- then I have family, some friends, and my therapist saying dont bother with it...better to focus on yourself and your kids and getting on with your life.


If the roles were reversed, wouldn't you want to know?
Just saying.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> If OP is set to divorce....then exposure will only cause him more problems. Best to hit her with the D while she's in fantasyland.


agree....they seem to be in la-la land...

So, i've had all kinds of ideas thrown at me about this....e.g. I have a friend that is connected to this guy's upper mgmt where he works who wants to expose....a few friends that want to call his wife for me.....some say call his church...


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

uhboy said:


> I thought about exposing it to his wife. But I wanted to wait til after this divorce is done so I don't have my stbx making life more difficult for me because I screwed up her fantasy life. Even afterward...not sure. This idiot may try to screw up my life somehow -- *he's obviously of low moral character*, and if he's thrown out, he'll do something stupid as revenge. I have enough info on him to crush him, his career, military pension -- *he's wrapped up in his community with church (teaches sunday school with wife for gods sake...classy)* and some family owned bizs, so I doubt he's about to dump all that for my disturbed wife....so, I think this will all collapse on itself in due time and I don't have to do a thing


Meanwhile he's cheating on his wife with your wife, totally against God's will. He's crafted a retirement plan... is he currently military? They frown on that, you know. 

There are no good reasons not to expose at this stage of the game. You have listed serveral excuses in your first posts about this, but the man is a sickening example of hypocrisy at its finest. 

Do you have a care or concern about his life? 
Do you want to protect him from being hurt by his inexcusable behavior? 
Do you want to protect this man from his wife's righteous anger? Why? To make it easier on you later? Some payoff later that you're imagining might come about? In hopes that it will self destruct?

What's happening to your life is partly this man's actions. So what it if self destructs? Will that make you feel better? Will it inform his wife that she's being cheated on? _Doesn't she have the right to know?_ Even if she doesn't believe you, it will make her pause, and him, and make things uneasy in their lives. It may blow up the affair, and probably will. 

You've been handed a sh!tcake, and you're eating it. Toss that back in his face and your STBXW's. They made it; let them eat it.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> If the roles were reversed, wouldn't you want to know?
> Just saying.


i know, thats always the question right? Yes, of course I'd like to know. I know she should know -- of course. But I feel exposed in this divorce process...maybe I shouldnt be, but I've not been thru it and I feel like there is a lot out of my control. So it feels safer to play nice until I can get things agreed to and then lower the hammer on this loser.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> We have the famous Eric415 or Eric514 thread in which the debate on exposure and divorce has dragged on and on. Eric thought his WW would skip demands for alimony if he divorced peacefully. However, as time went by her true intent was revealed. She wanted reconciliation. When it became clear that wasn't going to happen, she began to speak of the need for an agreement that he would never expose the affair evidence.
> 
> So for all his patience, Eric, still has a hassle. Shamwow, another excellent thread, showed that divorce could be smooth.



So I guess the verdict is to expose? 

I was worried also that she'll accuse me of spying on her (actually 'our') computer -- which is how this all came to light -- and bring some sort of legal action or something


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> I'm impressed with your compassion for his wife.


ok, i can certainly see the case for making her aware...its the decent thing to do. Just feels messy. I dont much proof except for some lurid chats they have had

I think i'd like to do it when I know they have planned their next trip...plans will have been made...then let her know, and see how she handles it. Give her a chance to hire a PI if she wants or whatever...

I will take the other side of any bet that she doesn't make another trip plan within the next 2 wks.


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> ok, i can certainly see the case for making her aware...its the decent thing to do. Just feels messy. I dont much proof except for some lurid chats they have had


She likely can connect the dots with you.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> ok, i can certainly see the case for making her aware...its the decent thing to do. Just feels messy. I dont much proof except for some lurid chats they have had
> 
> I think i'd like to do it when I know they have planned their next trip...plans will have been made...then let her know, and see how she handles it. Give her a chance to hire a PI if she wants or whatever...
> 
> I will take the other side of any bet that she doesn't make another trip plan within the next 2 wks.


You don't have to share with OMW any sources if you're not comfortable with it.

Say emails for example. If you "hacked" her email account you may not want to reveal that to anyone.

You never want to reveal any sources to STBXW.


----------



## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

She's having an affair. Who cares if she thinks you are "spying" on her.

All is fair in love and war.

You are hesitant do anything because you've been treated like sh*t for so long by her. Start gaining some of your self respect back and expose her a**.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> You don't have to share with OMW any sources if you're not comfortable with it.
> 
> Say emails for example. If you "hacked" her email account you may not want to reveal that to anyone.
> 
> You never want to reveal any sources to STBXW.




she figured that out already -- even though it was our family computer -- had an IT guy analyze it. lawyers are aware of it but just want to get thru this peacefully


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ICLH said:


> She's having an affair. Who cares if she thinks you are "spying" on her.
> 
> All is fair in love and war.
> 
> You are hesitant do anything because you've been treated like sh*t for so long by her. Start gaining some of your self respect back and expose her a**.



Yes -- what about using that knowledge as a negotiating chip with her or him if she tries to make things difficult thru the divorce?


----------



## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Oh well. *shrug* Every critter leaves a trail.


----------



## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Uhboy,

How long does the D process take in your State?

Are you hoping to settle things without going to court?

I can understand waiting until after D to expose to OM's wife, but ONLY if you have a fast D process. If this is going to court, and will be drawn out, then tell OM's wife now.

Just tell her what you suspect. Let her do her own digging and investigation.

I will tell you that, as a man, it will eat at you forever if you don't expose her affair.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Uhboy,
> 
> How long does the D process take in your State?
> 
> ...



If we can agree on custody and fin'l split, it can be done quickly..like April, and out of court. I think she'll be reasonable with the kids...she has a heart for them, just not anyone else....and she will want some freedom to continue affair. I'll have a much better sense within a 3-4 wks on when this will end. This is someone that says her kids are everything to her, but then leaves them for weeks at a time on her pleasure trips. Fin'l stuff is straightforward...maybe some trading of assets, but this wasnt a longterm marriage.

But yes, she should know. either sooner or not much later...


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Yes -- what about using that knowledge as a negotiating chip with her or him if she tries to make things difficult thru the divorce?


It requires a deft touch.

Blackmail is illegal in most places.

So, it's likely that hints are all you're allowed, there can be no quid pro quo.

Remember, she may have a voice-activated-recorder on her person. You should get one asap.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> It requires a deft touch.
> 
> Blackmail is illegal in most places.
> 
> ...



yeah, i think its prob not a good idea to do that...i think we can get thru this without too much drama. 

I say as little as possible to her other than casual chit chat about the kids or whatever...nothing at all about the divorce proceedings. I almost always keep my voice recorder on when i speak with her.


how do we feel about others besides wife....inlaws? church?


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

UhBoy,

I'm in the minority here when it comes to exposing affairs to the public at large. I'm not for it because:

It keeps you the victim zone
It makes you look vengeful and hurt
It can prolong the divorce process
It won't bring the cheating spouse back
Why stoop to their level

Use the fog. Her joyful cloud is your cover and concealment. Attack the enemy: your legal ties to her. 

You know the truth. Walking away quietly and with dignity shows this is nothing to you.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> UhBoy,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pic,

Couldn't disagree more. 

This is based on my experience mind you. 

Exposing removed me from the victim zone. 

It made me feel in control. 

I didn't want her back. 

It elevated me to heights they could only wish to see. 

Exposing was the best thing I ever did.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I'm impressed with your compassion for his wife.


He can expose after the Divorce is final. Why can't he use the fog to his advantage to get the best settlement possible. If the affair is nuked you may have a pissed of DW with nothing better to do than to fight him over everything. I'm all for exposing just not yet. Unless of course there is a chance he wants her back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> UhBoy,
> 
> I'm in the minority here when it comes to exposing affairs to the public at large. I'm not for it because:
> 
> ...




thankyou....this is the philosophy I started with....I very much want to expose but there's a part of it that feels petty, small minded, and too focused on them vs my own new path -- why drag that along with me. And yes, the legal ties are the true enemy right now....which is why i wanted to expose after all is said and done. 

However, I can see the merits of letting his wife in on the big secret. Its not fair indeed. whether the cheaters are conscious of it or not, they are aware that one of the outcomes is exposure, which makes it all the more exciting to take that risk. So getting caught is not an uncalculated outcome. So the OMW finding out is all part of the story. 

I have remained silent and uncaring what she does, which I think in itself send the message she is unimportant and not worth my energy, despite her efforts to make this all the more dramatic by acting the mistress role, dolling herself up, and flying first class to meet her paramour...so french, pretentious, and above it all....just as she views herself above all others.

So I guess I'm sort of ambivalent about it....i want to expose because it seems we all should have the info...but don't want to for many of the reasons you articulate.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> He can expose after the Divorce is final. Why can't he use the fog to his advantage to get the best settlement possible. If the affair is nuked you may have a pissed of DW with nothing better to do than to fight him over everything. I'm all for exposing just not yet. Unless of course there is a chance he wants her back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



there was a time where i would have considered taking her back.....if she had shown an iota of remorse after her 2nd trip after I had filed...a small chance I would have given it a shot. But now, no way....4 trips later, over a month spent together in hotel rooms...its ruined beyond repair, and she hardly batted an eye over it.


----------



## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I disagree with pictureless and usually say expose immediately. I have seen exposure bring back many waw here on TAM. It just sounds like to me that you are done. The omw does deserve to know and it is not vengeful or petty of you to tell her. It's the moral thing to do. I was purely thinking of the D settlement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

The sooner it's done the better the chances are of successful R for OM and omw.

Edit: as my IC said tonight, "the power of pu55y is strong."


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

It is just as bad as the cheaters behavior to not tell the other spouse. It helps hide the affair from the BS. It is a duty to expose and tell the truth. If they don't want to believe, that is their choice.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> I disagree with pictureless and usually say expose immediately. I have seen exposure bring back many waw here on TAM. It just sounds like to me that you are done. The omw does deserve to know and it is not vengeful or petty of you to tell her. It's the moral thing to do. I was purely thinking of the D settlement.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



if you knew my stbxw, you would wait til D is final...mostly because she is a paranoid, irrational person. If her liferaft was taken from her she would make everyone around her suffer for it. And if she's so capable and nonchalant about doing what she's doing, whats to stop her the next time she's unhappy? My friends and family are uniform in their advice: get out...now....run.

And no, I really don't want her back. There were no good times to return to....we'd basically be starting at square one, but with a ton of baggage. Other than for the kids, why bother? I'd rather have the kids exposed 50% to a healthy adult relationship than 100% to a bad one.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

btw, does anyone live near colorado springs?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> thankyou....this is the philosophy I started with....I very much want to expose but there's a part of it that feels petty, small minded, and too focused on them vs my own new path -- why drag that along with me.


If your instincts were serving you well, what are you doing here?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

So, as irony would have it, the OM is some sort of raving christian, and even teaches a sunday school class with his wife....so, I came across these biblical gems that maybe he and my stbxw can recite to each other in their hotel room:

“If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

“If a man is found lying with the wife of another man, both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.

Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

I'm not religious whatsoever........but just sayin.....


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> So, as irony would have it, the OM is some sort of raving christian, and even teaches a sunday school class with his wife....so, I came across these biblical gems that maybe he and my stbxw can recite to each other in their hotel room:
> 
> “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
> 
> ...


Blow it up.

Expose to his Church Council and Pastor.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

uhboy said:


> thankyou....this is the philosophy I started with....I very much want to expose but there's a part of it that feels petty, small minded, and too focused on them vs my own new path -- why drag that along with me. And yes, the legal ties are the true enemy right now....which is why i wanted to expose after all is said and done.
> 
> However, I can see the merits of letting his wife in on the big secret. Its not fair indeed. whether the cheaters are conscious of it or not, they are aware that one of the outcomes is exposure, which makes it all the more exciting to take that risk. So getting caught is not an uncalculated outcome. So the OMW finding out is all part of the story.
> 
> ...


I can see where you are coming from. The only reason I think you should expose the affair is because there are children involved that she continuously shows disregard for. When I found out about the other woman I could have called her and told her about me but I chose not to. I also did not say a word to him about it either. I told his brother and it got back to him that I knew. He threw it in my face and I didn't blink an eye. Like you, I felt I was sending a message that he was unimportant and not worth my energy. That's another reason why I didn't call her. I didn't want him to think he was even worth fighting for. 

Things got really ugly the night he found out I knew and he tried to force me out of the home. I left for a couple days and when I returned he had packed up all of my belongings and stacked it up out in the garage sending the message that I had no choice but to leave. I had already planned on it. Moved all of my things while he was gone and have not had any contact since (about 2 months). About a month after I'd been gone he repeatedly texted and called me after 2:30 a.m. trying to initiate sex. I never responded to any of it and have continued on with the 180. 

I guess what I'm trying to get at is there are many different ways you can approach an EA. There really is no telling what the outcome will be if you expose it. I do know that if I had children it would have been a whole different ball game and that's why I've encouraged you expose her. She needs to be held accountable for her role as a parent at least. You do what you think is right.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dude you know what you have to do come on.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

I also get the feeling this guy she is having the affair with has done this before. He's got a lot to lose including his reputation with the church, his wife, kids, etc. He seems awfully confident.

I'll do it if you want. :smthumbup:


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> If your instincts were serving you well, what are you doing here?


well, my instincts certainly didnt serve me well when I suggested a second date with her.

and yes, i do have a lot of those "just do the opposite" costanza moments. and maybe this is one of them. I dont know. I guess thats why Im on here. To try to make sense of nonsense, or maybe find a path that makes sense. 

She should know, yes. I would like not to care at all, but I do...less and less each day, but still care. She should have reprecussions from this so that she will at least pause when she considers it again.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Dude you know what you have to do come on.


that one made me laugh out loud..thanks for that! I know, I know, I know....

She's a monster...she thinks she's a great mom so she should have carte blanche to do whatever she wants with the rest of her life....but she fails to realize with 3 kids ages 5 and under, her life IS her kids, for now at least. And not flying around like a skanky call girl......
And not to mention loser dude with 3 kids of his own...older, but still, what an example...Although I have to say, she's more offensive...he's not giving up anything, she just shows up at her expense...he's on biz trips....he must think she's some sort of nut, but why protest if he's getting laid on a boring biz trip?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ICLH said:


> I also get the feeling this guy she is having the affair with has done this before. He's got a lot to lose including his reputation with the church, his wife, kids, etc. He seems awfully confident.
> 
> I'll do it if you want. :smthumbup:



Agree on the children involved point...from my 6 yr experience with her, it seems obvious she's had some traumatic childhood issues that affect her ability to have lasting intimate relationships with people. Most unfortunate for our kids. I've dated people longer than both of her prior marriages. Why someone isnt compelled to look in the mirror after that suggests to me they are beyond repair, and prone to despicable behavior like she is displaying now. 

Astute observation on his confidence. I wouldn't doubt that this isnt his first rodeo. I got to think my stbxw knows that. She's no dummy, i'll give her that. I think she takes this for what it is, a fantasy...but useful to move on from a marriage that has served her purposes, whatever they may be....She plays by different rules and morals than most that enter into marriages -- that seems obvious. 

I've got a line of people wanting to expose this to her. I was thinking after the divorce, some sort of simultaneous exposure to his wife, their church, their inlaws....maybe too much? Maybe the wife should be the determinant of who knows.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

gotta say though, the christian thing is just too much. Tragic, hilarious, and altogether worthy of exposing is sorry a$$


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

If and when you do expose her - GO ALL OUT. She needs to be taught a lesson. Let his church jump all over his ass.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ICLH said:


> If and when you do expose her - GO ALL OUT. She needs to be taught a lesson. Let his church jump all over his ass.



yeah, i had hoped I could get some photos of them at some point...and do some sort of carpet bomb thing within his small town...

but i suppose even the allegation of it would be enough to get the neighbors talking


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

uhboy, read the entire first page of this thread from Marriage Builders. Maybe it will give you a better understanding of exposure. You don't need to read any further than the first page, as all you need is there.

Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

3putt said:


> uhboy, read the entire first page of this thread from Marriage Builders. Maybe it will give you a better understanding of exposure. You don't need to read any further than the first page, as all you need is there.
> 
> Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums




If i wanted to save this marriage then I would have exposed by now...but I don't want to do that -- she/the marriage was too damaged from the beginning, and now she's proven she cannot be trusted. She'll just pull this again at some point down the road when she finds herself unhappy again.

She's not the type that would say, 'oh, you know what, i was wrong, im sorry, take me back....i'll work on my own issues too so this won't happen again...".....her past history would suggest that she is not capable of that


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

uhboy said:


> If i wanted to save this marriage then I would have exposed by now...but I don't want to do that -- she/the marriage was too damaged from the beginning, and now she's proven she cannot be trusted. She'll just pull this again at some point down the road when she finds herself unhappy again.


Exposure also works for the chuckles, as well. That being said, that woman has a right to know what is going on in her marriage and life. You not telling her what you know makes you nothing more than an accessory to the crime being committed against her and her family. You would be just as guilty as your WW is.

You wanna put head to pillow every night with that hanging over your head?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

What if exposure is the difference between him seeing his kids 20% of the time and 50% of the time? How about eric415? He saved about 200K in alimony. Shouldn't the OP protect himself first and then expose when it is safe to do so.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> What if exposure is the difference between him seeing his kids 20% of the time and 50% of the time? How about eric415? He saved about 200K in alimony. Shouldn't the OP protect himself first and then expose when it is safe to do so.


That's a big 'what if' though, isn't it? Chances are he lives in a 50/50 no-fault state anyway, so exposure really isn't going to affect that one way or the other. Eric's case was different because he's in Cali. Men get financially raped there, regardless of circumstances.

OP, what state are you in?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

3putt said:


> That's a big 'what if' though, isn't it? Chances are he lives in a 50/50 no-faulty state anyway, so exposure really isn't going to affect that one way or the other. Eric's case was different because he's in Cali. Men get financially raped there, regardless of circumstances.
> 
> OP, what state are you in?



im in a no fault state -- reasonable laws here if there is such a thing in divorce. 

we have to agree on custody, preferably without the judge deciding...so if she's at least happy for now that can be accomplished, but if not, it will be more difficult


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> What if exposure is the difference between him seeing his kids 20% of the time and 50% of the time? How about eric415? He saved about 200K in alimony. Shouldn't the OP protect himself first and then expose when it is safe to do so.



I think she prob has f-ed herself with all her travel by now to give me an advantage, but you don't know how much of an advantage til its all said and done. I should just offer the 50-50 now and see if she agrees while she's still in her fog


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

uhboy said:


> I think she prob has f-ed herself with all her travel by now to give me an advantage, but you don't know how much of an advantage til its all said and done. I should just offer the 50-50 now and see if she agrees while she's still in her fog


What if you let this go on, you get your 50-50 custody, and then she decides to relocate her and the kids to be closer to the POSOM's area? What are you gonna do then? 

You'll still be 'entitled' to your 50-50 custody, but realistically, how much do you think you would really get?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

3putt said:


> What if you let this go on, you get your 50-50 custody, and then she decides to relocate her and the kids to be closer to the POSOM's area? What are you gonna do then?
> 
> You'll still be 'entitled' to your 50-50 custody, but realistically, how much do you think you would really get?




she cant relocate without my consent -- otherwise court order to drag her a$$ back here...SHE can relocate, but not with the kids

it will be exposed, soon enough. Ideally, it would have been nice to have exposed immediately, and have had her feel remorse, reconcile, and all of us move on from this happily ever after. But her actions even leading up to this suggested to me that this was never a marriage in the true sense, there were not stable times to go back to...it would be starting from scratch - and given the damage done, seems like foolish and naive path to follow.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Uhboy,

I've thought more about your circumstances and weighed the opinions of others.

I know where they are coming from and respect that. I know in my case exposure really didn't matter because we had no kids together and parting ways was relatively easy.

Now I'm thinking about posom's w in your case. You need to tell her.

You need to do what is best for you first but at some point you need to tell that woman.

What a mess. Good luck.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Uhboy,
> 
> I've thought more about your circumstances and weighed the opinions of others.
> 
> ...



What a mess indeed. Its interesting to me that although she's exposed, she still wanted to continue...obviously he needs to be exposed to end it...although they may just both run off together, who knows. 

If we can wrap this up by the end of march, then I'll do it then. Early exposure would have helped I guess to maybe salvage it, but five years of her oppression seems like maybe D is the right path. Otherwise she'll always feel entitled to walk all over me. There is also a small chance she is waiting for me to ask her to call off the D....no chance.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> What a mess indeed. Its interesting to me that although she's exposed, she still wanted to continue...obviously he needs to be exposed to end it...although they may just both run off together, who knows.
> 
> If we can wrap this up by the end of march, then I'll do it then. Early exposure would have helped I guess to maybe salvage it, but five years of her oppression seems like maybe D is the right path. Otherwise she'll always feel entitled to walk all over me. There is also a small chance she is waiting for me to ask her to call off the D....no chance.


I have a feeling like most of the time you think you can do this without a judge deciding but some friend of hers is going to tell her how she is getting screwed and then she fights everything anyway.
Just don't be surprised that's all.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sometimes, all it takes is a word or a look to turn an amicable situation into an all out war.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> I have a feeling like most of the time you think you can do this without a judge deciding but some friend of hers is going to tell her how she is getting screwed and then she fights everything anyway.
> Just don't be surprised that's all.



its a possibility for sure -- hoping for the best, assuming the worst


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Cheaters are wired differently.
You trying not to make waves she will look at this as weakness and try to crush you.
She'll figure you won't do anything about it.
Prepare for her feeling entitled and dragging this out.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Cheaters are wired differently.
> You trying not to make waves she will look at this as weakness and try to crush you.
> She'll figure you won't do anything about it.
> Prepare for her feeling entitled and dragging this out.



Fair..although she didnt want or expect me to file and I did.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> Sometimes, all it takes is a word or a look to turn an amicable situation into an all out war.



I dont know what she wants to war over...she has no leverage for custody given her behavior; financially its pretty clear who gets what; its not a long term marriage; we can both walk away without too much brain damage.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

uhboy said:


> I dont know what she wants to war over...she has no leverage for custody given her behavior; financially its pretty clear who gets what; its not a long term marriage; we can both walk away without too much brain damage.


Question: What would you do if she were addicted to alcohol or drugs?


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I was in your shoes 1 year ago in March. I didnt find out OM identity until November. After consideration I did expose to OMW. Who bought the lies OM told her. Regardless like you the day she left I filed and had her served at work.

If I could do it over - I would have hired a PI to find out OM identity immediately. I would have put VAR in stbx car. I would have exposed to everyone who mattered. Her close friends, coworkers, OMW, immediate family. Done and done.

I think had I stood up for myself it would have been the best chance of saving my family. Which I thought I wanted at the time.

Now.... after showing her my belly and doing everything wrong and letting her destroy my identity and spirit I did 11 months of IC and finally getting back on my feet.

The turnaround for me happened when I started following the advice on TAM and respecting and loving myself again. Acknowleding my own POS tendencies, working on myself, and realizing I dont need her. I am far from perfect but hell who isnt. There are lines you dont cross and get to keep your spouse. 

She isnt remorseful. Do not live in fear of her or she will destroy you. I exposed my stbx and she didnt say or do anything to me. D is 1 week away.

Do not live in fear. At least inform the OMW, she deserves to know. It isnt revenge. Its standing up for what you believe.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

cbnero said:


> I was in your shoes 1 year ago in March. I didnt find out OM identity until November. After consideration I did expose to OMW. Who bought the lies OM told her. Regardless like you the day she left I filed and had her served at work.
> 
> If I could do it over - I would have hired a PI to find out OM identity immediately. I would have put VAR in stbx car. I would have exposed to everyone who mattered. Her close friends, coworkers, OMW, immediate family. Done and done.
> 
> ...




So you think even before all the custody and stuff? 

Its literally like 2 wks away....why poke the beehive before that?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

3putt said:


> Question: What would you do if she were addicted to alcohol or drugs?


if that were the case, i wouldnt have to do much of anything, they'd put her in rehab and give me the kids, right?


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> So you think even before all the custody and stuff?
> 
> Its literally like 2 wks away....why poke the beehive before that?


Agreed. It would be a whole different ball of wax if you were trying to get her back home. The second she signs those papers I would be on the phone with omw. You are too close to the finish line to pour gasoline over a smoldering fire.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> Agreed. It would be a whole different ball of wax if you were trying to get her back home. The second she signs those papers I would be on the phone with omw. You are too close to the finish line to pour gasoline over a smoldering fire.


:iagree:
If she waffles on the agreement though, full on exposure.
Carry a var when talking to her you don't need a false DV charge you'll be screwed then.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> Agreed. It would be a whole different ball of wax if you were trying to get her back home. The second she signs those papers I would be on the phone with omw. You are too close to the finish line to pour gasoline over a smoldering fire.



Its strange being that close -- i mean, if I had exposed early on, maybe it could have been saved, but it sure didnt seem like it. 

so i think then, ok, what if i expose now -- does that make her want to come back? Do i really want that? it was lousy before, why would it be any different? Feels like she'd have to come to me if she really wanted to make it work, but after all this, seems like a tough hill to climb.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> If she waffles on the agreement though, full on exposure.
> Carry a var when talking to her you don't need a false DV charge you'll be screwed then.



Right...i think there will be plenty of time to expose -- i dont think she has any intention of giving him up -- too much invested so far, but what a waste -- all because they couldn't keep their heads on straight.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Right...i think there will be plenty of time to expose -- i dont think she has any intention of giving him up -- too much invested so far, but what a waste -- all because they couldn't keep their heads on straight.


That's not the issue.

It's what HIS wife does that counts.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

I like this scenario:

1.) Uhboy gets the agreement signed and filed. He says it's in two weeks.

2.) Then he exposes to OM's wife.

3.) OM's wife blows up, and OM breaks it off with Uhboy's ex because he wants to save face.

4.) Uhboy's ex is left high and dry.

Uhboy, we need a nickname for your STBX.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ThreeStrikes said:


> I like this scenario:
> 
> 1.) Uhboy gets the agreement signed and filed. He says it's in two weeks.
> 
> ...


Fertile Myrtle


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Fertile Myrtle



hah -- no doubt about that....it was way too easy to get preg...OM better be fixed or she'll strike again

Agreed that its his wife that is the catalyst for any change for them, otherwise it will go on and on behind her back. Fertilemyrtle may run of time and $$ to keep her jetset mistress lifestyle... please dont tell me i'll have to deal with the POSOM on my turf


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> hah -- no doubt about that....it was way too easy to get preg...OM better be fixed or she'll strike again
> 
> Agreed that its his wife that is the catalyst for any change for them, otherwise it will go on and on behind her back. Fertilemyrtle may run of time and $$ to keep her jetset mistress lifestyle... please dont tell me i'll have to deal with the POSOM on my turf


Well
The sooner you expose to his wife you may not have to deal with him he will be too busy having to deal with her.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ThreeStrikes said:


> I like this scenario:
> 
> 1.) Uhboy gets the agreement signed and filed. He says it's in two weeks.
> 
> ...





Reasonable plan. The custody part is in 2 wks, but i think thats the critical part. the rest is 2 wks after that, and could wrap it up by then. But we'll see. 
The POSOM should be left high and dry also...best case is he stays w/his wife of 20yrs and 3 kids


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

I have a feeling as soon as the OM is exposed he will drop your wife like a bad habit. He'll be too busy trying to explain himself to everyone he won't have time for her. She may even try to reconcile with you to regain a source of stability. It seems like she is the type of woman that needs a crutch in her life and it doesn't matter who it is as long as she's got one. If he isn't in the picture I don't think she will have the strength to fight you on anything as much as you may think.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

ICLH said:


> I have a feeling as soon as the OM is exposed he will drop your wife like a bad habit. He'll be too busy trying to explain himself to everyone he won't have time for her. She may even try to reconcile with you to regain a source of stability. It seems like she is the type of woman that needs a crutch in her life and it doesn't matter who it is as long as she's got one. If he isn't in the picture I don't think she will have the strength to fight you on anything as much as you may think.


Exposure suddenly makes the mysterious and exciting world of an affair into the same difficult existence we all inhabit.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

ICLH said:


> I have a feeling as soon as the OM is exposed he will drop your wife like a bad habit. He'll be too busy trying to explain himself to everyone he won't have time for her. She may even try to reconcile with you to regain a source of stability. It seems like she is the type of woman that needs a crutch in her life and it doesn't matter who it is as long as she's got one. If he isn't in the picture I don't think she will have the strength to fight you on anything as much as you may think.


In the back of my mind, I keep wondering if at some point she says ok, i've lost my mind....lets figure this out if we can.... A lot has happened since i gave her that ultimatum...i dont think I could go back to her... but with the young kids and the life we've had, part of me would like to make it work. But then I think, wait...she just spent 2 wks with this guy in a hotel on his biz trip....wtf


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Exposure suddenly makes the mysterious and exciting world of an affair into the same difficult existence we all inhabit.



Right...what a ridiculous thing they are doing. I pin most of it on her though, as she is the one perpetuating it by getting on planes and leaving her family. He's just doing his job and getting a piece of a$$ on the side. 

it should be blown up....any tips on how to break the news?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Right...what a ridiculous thing they are doing. I pin most of it on her though, as she is the one perpetuating it by getting on planes and leaving her family. He's just doing his job and getting a piece of a$$ on the side.
> 
> it should be blown up....any tips on how to break the news?


Do you know his address?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Do you know his address?


yes

well, one of 2 addresses, but pretty sure which one it is

i was thinking of waiting til their inevitable next trip so she has time to throw his things out on the lawn, and/or interrogate him on the phone while he's in his hotel room


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> yes
> 
> well, one of 2 addresses, but pretty sure which one it is
> 
> i was thinking of waiting til their inevitable next trip so she has time to throw his things out on the lawn, and/or interrogate him on the phone while he's in his hotel room


If you have an address pay a PI to confirm and have him give her a letter with basic info and for her to call you.
Please stop procrastinating.
Then he could talk to the pastor of his church.
I think they would appreciate that so they can quietly let him go.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Most thorough way. 

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> If you have an address pay a PI to confirm and have him give her a letter with basic info and for her to call you.
> Please stop procrastinating.
> Then he could talk to the pastor of his church.
> I think they would appreciate that so they can quietly let him go.


PI? why not a phonecall? email?...she's on facebook

although the pastor talk is a good angle....although i could phone him on that too no?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> Most thorough way.
> 
> Exposure 101 - Your Most Powerful Weapon - Marriage Builders® Forums



yeah i guess the OM could have already been warning his wife that there's some nut out there accusing me of cheating...seems like a fine line to walk though....but I do wonder why he is so confident in continuing the affair. She said it cooled off after she was discovered by me


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> PI? why not a phonecall? email?...she's on facebook
> 
> although the pastor talk is a good angle....although i could phone him on that too no?


Is he also on an organization like the PTA? Fine upstanding guy that he is?

A fedex with your evidence and a cover letter to each location. Signature required on part of recipient.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> PI? why not a phonecall? email?...she's on facebook
> 
> although the pastor talk is a good angle....although i could phone him on that too no?


Try a phone call then if you have the number.
Other ways can be intercepted.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> yeah i guess the OM could have already been warning his wife that there's some nut out there accusing me of cheating...seems like a fine line to walk though....but I do wonder why he is so confident in continuing the affair. She said it cooled off after she was discovered by me



The fog makes people do crazy things.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Is he also on an organization like the PTA? Fine upstanding guy that he is?
> 
> A fedex with your evidence and a cover letter to each location. Signature required on part of recipient.


hmmm, i think he is not -- i thought i read somewhere he does homeschooling....he's a raving christian, cant be influenced by evil secular forces


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Do you happen to know what motel your wife is staying at?
Hypothetically if the pastor needed more proof that would be the icing on the cake and the end of Jimmy Swaggert if you know what I mean.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> hmmm, i think he is not -- i thought i read somewhere he does homeschooling....he's a raving christian, cant be influenced by evil secular forces


Uhh
He's not a "christian" if he's banging other mens wives just my opinion.
He is as phony as a 3 dollar bill.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Uhh
> He's not a "christian" if he's banging other mens wives just my opinion.
> He is as phony as a 3 dollar bill.



are you saying no christians are adulterers? hahahh....i know what you mean....he's a scumbag.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Do you happen to know what motel your wife is staying at?
> Hypothetically if the pastor needed more proof that would be the icing on the cake and the end of Jimmy Swaggert if you know what I mean.


yeah -- not sure where they are staying...however, his wife could find out!


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Try a phone call then if you have the number.
> Other ways can be intercepted.


thats what i figured...i have plenty of friends that want to make the call for me...


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> The fog makes people do crazy things.



its crazy alright...he needs a dose of reality


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> thats what i figured...i have plenty of friends that want to make the call for me...


Like the judge in caddy shack "Well, we're waiting."
If you call be as matter of fact as you can be stick to the facts and if she wants tell her to call back anytime.
How she reacts you can't control but you would be doing the right thing though.
There is never a right time for this so the sooner the better.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Like the judge in caddy shack "Well, we're waiting."
> If you call be as matter of fact as you can be stick to the facts and if she wants tell her to call back anytime.
> How she reacts you can't control but you would be doing the right thing though.
> There is never a right time for this so the sooner the better.



seems like a call is the best option....so info is received.

best to wait til next trip so i know he isnt lurking around


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> hmmm, i think he is not -- i thought i read somewhere he does homeschooling....he's a raving christian, cant be influenced by evil secular forces


He's likely connected to a homeschooling group.

Find out.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

All this talk about exposing has me thinking. Should I drive by and see if Scrooge is "entertaining" on the days she doesn't have custody of her kids? If I did, then what? I wouldn't know whose car it is, and she could always lie and say the relationship started after ours ended.

My mind dreams of knocking POSOM's teeth in while Scrooge watches, but what good would that do? I don't need to get arrested on top of everything else.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> All this talk about exposing has me thinking. Should I drive by and see if Scrooge is "entertaining" on the days she doesn't have custody of her kids? If I did, then what? I wouldn't know whose car it is, and she could always lie and say the relationship started after ours ended.
> 
> My mind dreams of knocking POSOM's teeth in while Scrooge watches, but what good would that do? I don't need to get arrested on top of everything else.



Yeah, that has got to be a weird feeling right? I'm not looking forward to it...some other dude to get used to around my kids. But, then again, I know that when I look in his eye, I'm sure I'll see the same tinge of 'damn, what have i done!?' that I saw in the mirror when i was married to her. So maybe i'll feel more sympathy than anger towards him.

Best revenge is your own happiness....without her. That's what I'm looking forward to anyway.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> He's likely connected to a homeschooling group.
> 
> Find out.




looked, but found no info on him

had such a whacked exchange with her today I can't wait to have this thing done. she's seriously got some sort of emotional/mental/anger issue


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

uhboy said:


> Custody -- dads always get screwed,*this is BS! There are dads here on TAM with 100% custody of small children and some with 50%! Don't sell yourself short. Get a GREAT divorce attorney and ask for FULL custody. Your kids deserve 'normal'!*
> 
> but she is giving me a lot of ammo....she even submitted a 600/mo travel budget, even tho we never traveled much at all given the young kids. *$600/mo travel BUDGET to go screw other men? Is she smokin' crack?*
> 
> ...


*
Hire a GREAT attorney
File for FULL custody
Contact the other man's WIFE; SHE should get to decide whether she wants to stay married to his cheating azz (just like YOU got to decide whether YOU wanted to stay married)...the cheaters should not get to CHOOSE by default! Wise this woman up! He may be exposing her (the mother of young children) to potentially fatal diseases; it's her RIGHT to know and your DUTY to tell her. If she wants to stay with him after having full knowledge, good on her!
*


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> *
> Hire a GREAT attorney
> File for FULL custody
> Contact the other man's WIFE; SHE should get to decide whether she wants to stay married to his cheating azz (just like YOU got to decide whether YOU wanted to stay married)...the cheaters should not get to CHOOSE by default! Wise this woman up! He may be exposing her (the mother of young children) to potentially fatal diseases; it's her RIGHT to know and your DUTY to tell her. If she wants to stay with him after having full knowledge, good on her!
> *



thanks for advice -- she MAY be on crack...definitely not in the reality we are all familiar with. Problem is, the court rules in the best interest of kids. I may think shes a nutjob and have lots of evidence (i mean, c'mon, sleeping around in hotel rooms with kids left behind?...what more do they need?), but unless she literally is on crack, they give her a least SOME custody.

Their time is coming...not far from now. And she will erupt, but it will be too late for her...or i'll end up with full custody by default.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

So, I have been trying to stay the course on this thingbut honestly I keep wanting to put things back together again. Maybe it's the fear of the unknown, or wanting to 'do it right this time'. I carry some guilt about filing, but family, friends, therapist all said do it now, so I did, as I know it was never great between us. We both broke each other's trust now...she for cheating, and me for catching her via her email. I keep thinking, well, if I hadn't caught her with her online activity then maybe we could reconcile more easily since I would be the only that had to forgive...now she seems be using the broken trust and her being the victim because I filed to fuel her affair further. I keep thinking that if she was truly sorry and really didn't want this divorce she would say something...but maybe the fog of her affair helps her put me in the rearview mirror. I'm sure this sounds like I'm weak and that I'm nuts to go back to her, but man it's a hard pill to swallow. I was naive to think someone couldnt be that cold hearted. Live and learn!


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

Shake it off. You said yourself you didn't have any good times to fall back on. This is codependence talking. Stay the course.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

If it helps I go through the same thought process you do. Forgive yourself, it isn't your fault. You want what you had but she is not that person anymore. The woman you knew is dead and long gone and never coming back. 

Be strong for yourself and your kids. If you start dwelling to long then get up and do something, anything, to get your mind off of it. It will get easier.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> Shake it off. You said yourself you didn't have any good times to fall back on. This is codependence talking. Stay the course.



Codep...good point. Thanks for the insight. After all this, I think psyche evaluations should be part of the premarital process!


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

uhboy said:


> Codep...good point. Thanks for the insight. After all this, I think psyche evaluations should be part of the premarital process!


It's all part of the process. Realizing what you want and what you had are two very different things. Do what is necessary so that you can find what you want.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

uhboy said:


> Codep...good point. Thanks for the insight. After all this, I think psyche evaluations should be part of the premarital process!



That codependent feeling may never fully go away. 

You have to be able to recognize and resist it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> So, I have been trying to stay the course on this thingbut honestly I keep wanting to put things back together again. Maybe it's the fear of the unknown, or wanting to 'do it right this time'. I carry some guilt about filing, but family, friends, therapist all said do it now, so I did, as I know it was never great between us. We both broke each other's trust now...she for cheating, and me for catching her via her email. I keep thinking, well, if I hadn't caught her with her online activity then maybe we could reconcile more easily since I would be the only that had to forgive...now she seems be using the broken trust and her being the victim because I filed to fuel her affair further. I keep thinking that if she was truly sorry and really didn't want this divorce she would say something...but maybe the fog of her affair helps her put me in the rearview mirror. I'm sure this sounds like I'm weak and that I'm nuts to go back to her, but man it's a hard pill to swallow. I was naive to think someone couldnt be that cold hearted. Live and learn!


You're still buying into guilt over busting her putting out for posOM?


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> You're still buying into guilt over busting her putting out for posOM?


I know...its ludicrous. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a fog of my own. Why does this happen? It's crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> I know...its ludicrous. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a fog of my own. Why does this happen? It's crazy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A combination of reading insightful books, individual counseling, and friends in this forum will help you get over it.

AND.. more importantly... self-regulate that crap in the future.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> A combination of reading insightful books, individual counseling, and friends in this forum will help you get over it.
> 
> AND.. more importantly... self-regulate that crap in the future.


Its the usual male pavlovian response thinking
that somehow some way of u please her somehow
u will get laid....regardless if u r treated like a doormat!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Its the usual male pavlovian response thinking
> that somehow some way of u please her somehow
> u will get laid....regardless if u r treated like a doormat!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Doormats are neither attractive or sexy.

That behavior is how you got here.

Figure out "why" you feel that way.. and when the first time you ever felt abandoned was... and care for that part of yourself.


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

uhboy said:


> *We both *broke each other's trust now...she for cheating, and me for catching her via her email.
> 
> 
> > That's ridiculous for you to think like that. Stop letting her make you feel like any of this is your fault. That's what cheaters do best, make the other person feel as though it's their fault.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

GutPunch said:


> What if exposure is the difference between him seeing his kids 20% of the time and 50% of the time? How about eric415? *He saved about 200K in alimony*. Shouldn't the OP protect himself first and then expose when it is safe to do so.


Not yet !!!

55


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

uhboy said:


> So, I have been trying to stay the course on this thingbut honestly I keep wanting to put things back together again. Maybe it's the fear of the unknown, or wanting to 'do it right this time'. I carry some guilt about filing, but family, friends, therapist all said do it now, so I did, as I know it was never great between us. We both broke each other's trust now...she for cheating, and me for catching her via her email. I keep thinking, well, if I hadn't caught her with her online activity then maybe we could reconcile more easily since I would be the only that had to forgive...now she seems be using the broken trust and her being the victim because I filed to fuel her affair further. I keep thinking that if she was truly sorry and really didn't want this divorce she would say something...but maybe the fog of her affair helps her put me in the rearview mirror. I'm sure this sounds like I'm weak and that I'm nuts to go back to her, but man it's a hard pill to swallow. I was naive to think someone couldnt be that cold hearted. Live and learn!


I think you've already received good advice, but when your thought process comes around to this again (and it will), you must remember:

1. She's not sorry.
2. She slept (and is continuing to have sex with) another man. She has no boundaries whatsoever. You need to establish impeccable boundaries with her. Now. 
3. She will see you as weak if you got back together with her. Do you think she would really respect you again knowing that you're still with her even though she cheated on you? That you are ok with her being with someone she feels more desirable than you? That you didn't have better self respect or better options than accepting and placating her cheating azz?
4. As far as trust violation goes, her screwing another dude > your snooping.
5. Step out of her victim/drama triangle. She will be the victim. Do not be the persecutor or rescuer. You stop being the victim too. She did what she did. Men moving forward denounce victimhood. 
6. You must stay detached from crazy. 
7. Keep your eyes open always to her actions. Words are meaningless.

Swallow the red pill, bro. I've been where you are and I can assure you, that with proper self-respect and proper self improvement, there are much better days ahead. 

PM sent.

- HL


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Uhboy... for your consideration:

Here's a letter the Count of Monte Cristo received from posOM's attorney. I can imagine you getting something similar - and my smile will be a mile wide:

And - at that time - your wife will be ashen-faced

*************
I got the following letter from the posOM's lawyer after I exposed to his wife, everyone at his office, and the PTA at his daughter's school:

[Names have been omitted to protect my secret identity]

Dear Count of Monte Cristo:

Please allow this letter to inform you of my representation of members of POSOM's family in relation to recent communications from you. As you are aware, you have taken agressive action against POSOM in the following ways:

1. You sent a letter to POSOM's wife with which you included a thumb drive of alleged email correspondence betwen POSOM and your wife.

2. You emailed virtually all of POSOM's co-workers and attached the same alleged email communications; and

3. You emailed the PTA of POSOM's youngest child's elementary school and attached aforementioned emails.

Mr. Count of Monte Cristo, I certainly understand your anger toward POSOM. For that reason, there will be no action taken in response to your violation of several federal and state statutes... Let me assure you that if your intent was to cause POSOM extreme pain emotionally with his family and economically with his career, you have accomplished your mission.

**********
He finishes by saying that if I contacted POSOM or his friends, family and associates then he would be forced to take legal actions against me. However, like he said - I accomplished what I set out to do. That is, expose his lying cheating ass to the world so that they could see him for the scumbag that he really is.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Uhboy... for your consideration:
> 
> Here's a letter the Count of Monte Cristo received from posOM's attorney. I can imagine you getting something similar - and my smile will be a mile wide:
> 
> ...


The funny thing is Count could have even continued his exposure, had he chosen to, and there would've been absolutely nothing POSOM or his atty could've done about it.

No laws broken; no lies told. Perfectly legal and NO grounds for a lawsuit.

That atty letter must have been highly gratifying to Count.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

3putt said:


> The funny thing is Count could have even continued his exposure, had he chosen to, and there would've been absolutely nothing POSOM or his atty could've done about it.
> 
> No laws broken; no lies told. Perfectly legal and NO grounds for a lawsuit.
> 
> That atty letter must have been highly gratifying to Count.


I know of no betrayed spouse who wouldn't relish such correspondence.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Conrad said:


> I know of no betrayed spouse who wouldn't relish such correspondence.



I would forward it to everyone who received the original exposure letter and include it as attachment to any future recipients.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Wish I had known about TAM a year before I did everything wrong on my own. 

Lol I dont regret her or the marriage. I regret becoming a worthless doormat of a man. Shyt happens I guess I wasnt prepared. 

Count is my hero.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

cbnero said:


> Wish I had known about TAM a year before I did everything wrong on my own.
> 
> Lol I dont regret her or the marriage. I regret becoming a worthless doormat of a man. Shyt happens I guess I wasnt prepared.
> 
> ...



I hear you on regretting being a doormat. I did the same unconsciously. Felt that the best way to avoid her incessant insults, ridicule, and disrespect was to acquiesce to whatever she wanted and eventually avoid conversation. Ultimately that lost her respect for me, but not before I lost respect for her. It would have been nice if one of us had the maturity and power to call time out and demand help, but neither did. So in the end, it seemed like a tacit agreement that this would eventually end up in flames. But, anticipating and having it actually happen are two different things. Now that its happening, it feels like going over a waterfall -- no turning back. Its easy to mondaymorningquarterback and say I should have done this or done that, but in the heat of the battle its hard to remove yourself and observe the bigger picture since so much of your mind and attention is focused on protecting yourself from the battle in front of you. What a mess.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

So, I keep cycling this through my head, and I know this is the shoulda woulda coulda talking....but if I had gone into this marriage and avoided the doormat syndrome by demanding and foisting my control over situations (e.g. saying no to her demands to always be the driver....she always demanded to drive because she was a paranoid control freak and the worst back seat driver you can imagine)....and not being the servant/nice-guy/yes-dear type that they always lose respect for, would I have avoided divorce? Or is she too narcissistic/bipolar/depressed to have ever been able to sustain it......will never know. I think it would have created a lot of conflict from the start, but understanding more of the male/female communication dynamic now, maybe she would have settled down and respected my male-ness and got with the program.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> So, I keep cycling this through my head, and I know this is the shoulda woulda coulda talking....but if I had gone into this marriage and avoided the doormat syndrome by demanding and foisting my control over situations (e.g. saying no to her demands to always be the driver....she always demanded to drive because she was a paranoid control freak and the worst back seat driver you can imagine)....and not being the servant/nice-guy/yes-dear type that they always lose respect for, would I have avoided divorce? Or is she too narcissistic/bipolar/depressed to have ever been able to sustain it......will never know. I think it would have created a lot of conflict from the start, but understanding more of the male/female communication dynamic now, maybe she would have settled down and respected my male-ness and got with the program.


Others have said it before, but I'll repeat because you and I need to believe it....

We own 50% of our marital problems, the wife owns the other 50%. It's 100% on them why we are divorcing-that's what they want.

Some ladies have their own rules and understanding of the meaning of words such as vows, promises, and commitment. Some have hypergamy they cannot control. Some see the truth as objective, some see it as subjective. You'll never understand why. Just accept it.

Stop blaming yourself. Consider yourself lucky. Take the red pill. It doesn't work overnight, but it helps a little.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Others have said it before, but I'll repeat because you and I need to believe it....
> 
> We own 50% of our marital problems, the wife owns the other 50%. It's 100% on them why we are divorcing-that's what they want.
> 
> ...



I think her cheating/our divorce was the inevitable end as she was not mature enough to allow me to be the Man and be in control....her feminine nature may have wanted me to, but her emotional/psychological disorder/immaturity never allowed her to without painful conflict. In the end, killing off the marriage was the red-pill solution. She'll move on to repeat the same thing....unless the 4th times a charm


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> I think her cheating/our divorce was the inevitable end as she was not mature enough to allow me to be the Man and be in control....her feminine nature may have wanted me to, but her emotional/psychological disorder/immaturity never allowed her to without painful conflict. In the end, killing off the marriage was the red-pill solution. She'll move on to repeat the same thing....unless the 4th times a charm


Our wives sounds a lot alike. I wish I could find the article I read somewhere (I think on the red pill site) about dating "single" mothers. It really helped me a lot.

It described Scrooge perfectly. She buried me alive with sex and had no other interests except for me when we dated. What I liked, she loved, etc. ect. It was like that for years...until after we married. Then the problems started. Little by little the mask came off and the real priorities came to light. If I can find that article I'll share it with you.

I'm trying to move on. I can't control her or make her love me. My head knows I'm better off without her, her baggage, and her crazy selfish ways. Just waiting for the heart to catch up.

I suggest you try to do the same. You'll never figure it out so stop trying.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Our wives sounds a lot alike. I wish I could find the article I read somewhere (I think on the red pill site) about dating "single" mothers. It really helped me a lot.
> 
> It described Scrooge perfectly. She buried me alive with sex and had no other interests except for me when we dated. What I liked, she loved, etc. ect. It was like that for years...until after we married. Then the problems started. Little by little the mask came off and the real priorities came to light. If I can find that article I'll share it with you.
> 
> ...


Its sad/pathetic how often I hear how similar the wives of those on this site are. I guess it shouldnt be that surprising given the nature of the site. i've been reading rationalmale blog, good stuff. Her initial pregnancy was avoidable of course, even if she thought it was an 'accident' I think the most charitable thing I can say is she unconsciously allowed it to happen...she'd never admit it, but after 2 failed marriages and mid-30s ticking away, what better way to secure the 3rd, with a nice guy/provider. The pain is fading, partly because I don't think I loved her in the first place....I liked the sex and wanted to love her....and she's physically attractive now even in her 40s, but her getting pregnant after 3m of dating short-circuited the infatuation phase and her mask came off pretty quickly after that. Glad its finally happening, but the cheating is pretty humiliating and made me realize I could never respect her again, and going back to her would eventually make her respect me less as well. So, off to a better life!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> Its sad/pathetic how often I hear how similar the wives of those on this site are. I guess it shouldnt be that surprising given the nature of the site. i've been reading rationalmale blog, good stuff. Her initial pregnancy was avoidable of course, even if she thought it was an 'accident' I think the most charitable thing I can say is she unconsciously allowed it to happen...she'd never admit it, but after 2 failed marriages and mid-30s ticking away, what better way to secure the 3rd, with a nice guy/provider. The pain is fading, partly because I don't think I loved her in the first place....I liked the sex and wanted to love her....and she's physically attractive now even in her 40s, but her getting pregnant after 3m of dating short-circuited the infatuation phase and her mask came off pretty quickly after that. Glad its finally happening, but the cheating is pretty humiliating and made me realize I could never respect her again, and going back to her would eventually make her respect me less as well. So, off to a better life!


Was it your first marriage? Her third, right?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Was it your first marriage? Her third, right?


Correct. There were even more red flags than that, and even more down the road....but I rationalized them as a tradeoff for a hot piece is a$$.....and paid a price for it! Sounds like a pro now that I say it that way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> Correct. There were even more red flags than that, and even more down the road....but I rationalized them as a tradeoff for a hot piece is a$$.....and paid a price for it! Sounds like a pro now that I say it that way!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have you read about hypergamy?


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Have you read about hypergamy?


yes. I have. implying she moved on to an alpha after she transformed me into a beta?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> yes. I have. implying she moved on to an alpha after she transformed me into a beta?


I'm not saying you're not alpha. Not all hypergamic women do that anyway. They sometimes $hit test you out of a relationship. They can't help themselves because of their mental wiring. Add the war bride disloyalty and feminine subjective truth and rule set and we never stood a chance.

We have to take ownership of faults, too. Brother, what were we thinking? I married a twice divorced woman with two kids. Why did I do that?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Uhboy,

Your first post is an agonizing read. You already knew you got on the wrong ship a long time ago but leaving did not seem like a good option. How could you have know how iittle loyalty she had to offer to you or any man.

A really alpha guy would not have married her. But you are going to emerge a different.


----------



## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I really wish I could find that article. It described my situation perfectly.

She lures you in with bat-$hit crazy sex....loves everything you love....you never fight.....her kids are never around, never an issues....you marry.....you start paying the bills.....her money is hers but your money is ours.....all of a sudden the kids need all her attention.....you notice a shift in priorities......you voice your concerns, and she says you've changed....now she no longer adores everything you adore.......she asks are we compatible.....it starts to feel like them vs you......more love tests.....wham! You're out! You'll never change. She says she's better off without you.

You too?

You're like, what did I do wrong? How can she leave so suddenly?

Not sudden. She was never there, player. She got game.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Uhboy,
> 
> Your first post is an agonizing read. You already knew you got on the wrong ship a long time ago but leaving did not seem like a good option. How could you have know how iittle loyalty she had to offer to you or any man.
> 
> A really alpha guy would not have married her. But you are going to emerge a different.



I recall discussing the option of marrying or not marrying with my brother, who urged me to recognize not marrying her is a very viable and reasonable option. My own mother urged me for none other than legal access to our child...but I felt it was more of the 'right thing to do'...and a dream that it would all work out somehow. Safer sex and I'd not be typing this tonight.


----------



## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> I really wish I could find that article. It described my situation perfectly.
> 
> She lures you in with bat-$hit crazy sex....loves everything you love....you never fight.....her kids are never around, never an issues....you marry.....you start paying the bills.....her money is hers but your money is ours.....all of a sudden the kids need all her attention.....you notice a shift in priorities......you voice your concerns, and she says you've changed....now she no longer adores everything you adore.......she asks are we compatible.....it starts to feel like them vs you......more love tests.....wham! You're out! You'll never change. She says she's better off without you.
> 
> ...



Sounds like a time honored tradition. I had a similar experience....different events along the way, but the arc is similar. The cheating was the last straw, and for some reason she felt she could keep me in the orbit while she escaped a week or 2 every month. Im right now expecting a call within the next week from her conveying her next trip to see her married bf. I interpreted the cheating though as her signal to me that she was done with this marriage....but me finding out and filing was something she hadnt expected, at least not so soon. I felt worried that I filed too quickly, but as time goes on it feels like the only thing I could do and still respect myself. 

But yes, I couldn't believe she could make that choice, at least something so dramatic, particularly since we have an infant and 2 other young kids. While I was miserable with her, I think her cheating solution was more of an escape from dealing with the stress of raising 3 young kids full time...combined with her intolerant personality I shouldnt be surprised that she cheated when presented the opportunity. Equally unsurprising is she pursues a married guy with kids that lives several states away...short trysts without all of the challenges of mundane day to day routines. 

We never really did have a marriage...little/no affection, separate rooms, belligerent emotional bully...whats not to like? nothing like starting a relationship with a pregnancy...note to self: doesnt work!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> Sounds like a time honored tradition. I had a similar experience....different events along the way, but the arc is similar. The cheating was the last straw, and for some reason she felt she could keep me in the orbit while she escaped a week or 2 every month. Im right now expecting a call within the next week from her conveying her next trip to see her married bf. I interpreted the cheating though as her signal to me that she was done with this marriage....but me finding out and filing was something she hadnt expected, at least not so soon. I felt worried that I filed too quickly, but as time goes on it feels like the only thing I could do and still respect myself.
> 
> But yes, I couldn't believe she could make that choice, at least something so dramatic, particularly since we have an infant and 2 other young kids. While I was miserable with her, I think her cheating solution was more of an escape from dealing with the stress of raising 3 young kids full time...combined with her intolerant personality I shouldnt be surprised that she cheated when presented the opportunity. Equally unsurprising is she pursues a married guy with kids that lives several states away...short trysts without all of the challenges of mundane day to day routines.
> 
> We never really did have a marriage...little/no affection, separate rooms, belligerent emotional bully...whats not to like? nothing like starting a relationship with a pregnancy...note to self: doesnt work!


Note to self: you're better off without her


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Note to self: you're better off without her



Amen to that brother

Have you begun dating? As bad as it felt to be cheated on, i actually feel more confident getting back into the dating scene, whenever that occurs.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> Amen to that brother
> 
> Have you begun dating? As bad as it felt to be cheated on, i actually feel more confident getting back into the dating scene, whenever that occurs.


I was trying for awhile but I've decided to wait.

All the chicks my age on the dating sites I've visited are not for me. I've set my standard and I'm not lowering it. 

I'm not wasting my time chasing dating site divorcees with children. I'm better off alone right now. I'm a church going Christian and I never dreamed I'd say this, but right now I don't think marriage is worth it. It's too risky for men. We get screwed emotionally and financially


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> I was trying for awhile but I've decided to wait.
> 
> All the chicks my age on the dating sites I've visited are not for me. I've set my standard and I'm not lowering it.
> 
> I'm not wasting my time chasing dating site divorcees with children. I'm better off alone right now. I'm a church going Christian and I never dreamed I'd say this, but right now I don't think marriage is worth it. It's too risky for men. We get screwed emotionally and financially




good plan.

i think if i had known how easy it was for women to dispose of their mates, i'd have been more cautious/aware going into it. better late then never


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> I was trying for awhile but I've decided to wait.
> 
> All the chicks my age on the dating sites I've visited are not for me. I've set my standard and I'm not lowering it.
> 
> I'm not wasting my time chasing dating site divorcees with children. I'm better off alone right now. I'm a church going Christian and I never dreamed I'd say this, but right now I don't think marriage is worth it. It's too risky for men. We get screwed emotionally and financially


Read the stories here
A Voice for Men – Humanist Counter-Theory in the Age of Misandry
You are right not to get married again.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

The red pill is alive and well with this group. Excellent.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

helolover said:


> The red pill is alive and well with this group. Excellent.


Already swallowed. Now it's MGTOW for me. 

Yes I'm bitter. But the next 25 years will be better spent attending to my own needs, instead of hunting for a woman (who is probably divorced with children) from a pool of females with entitlement mentality and hypergamy.

The money I paid to marry was a bad investment. I've been made celibate based solely on the unilateral actions of one other person even though I had a 50% State sanctioned interest in my marriage.

If marriage can be voided at any time by only one person for reasons other than violence, abuse, abandonment, or infidelity, then it's pointless. Anyone can enter into it falsely without facing any consequences. Imagine if I could get out of my auto loan as easily, stating sorry but I just don't love my cars color anymore.

Some will say why do you want to be bound by marriage to someone who doesn't love you? That's their defense of easy divorce. I say I don't, but easy divorce makes marriage pointless in the first place. If you couldn't get out of marriage so easily, maybe some people would think harder before they agree to it.

In any case, after all arguments, marriage today is NOT for men because divorce is completely for women. It's sick. It depresses me to write this. Thank goodness it's Sunday. Off to church now.


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## parker (Dec 2, 2012)

You seem very bitter, angry, broken, hurt, and damaged. Don't let a failed marriage define your life. It didn't work out, that sucks, move on to healing and recovery. Keep your life centered on the one that it should be centered on, and keep pushing forward. Let the anger and bitterness go or it will hinder your healing.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Uhboy

I read your thread and just wanted to share some wisdom I have gained over the years.

*Alpha vs. Beta*

Every man is an Alpha if he chooses to be.

Any man that considers himself a beta has made those decisions in life that allowed him to become or be perceived as a beta.

Your wife is not too blame. You are!

The good thing is you recognize this. So get this divorce done and then focus on yourself to be the Alpha you want to be.

*Exposure*

I know you have decided to wait on exposure until after the divorce. But you have come to this decision partly out of fear of the OM retaliating or your wayward wife acting even crazier.

That is what a beta does.

An alpha would have exposed after having solid concrete proof. He would make the exposure be memorable, painful and brutally honest for all parties involved.

An alpha would not expose to end her affair so she dumps the Om and comes running back to you.

oh no.

An alpha would expose the affair so the wayward spouses look like complete fools in front of their respective betrayed spouses, betrayed families, betrayed coworkers and betrayed friends.

An alpha would expose the affair so the wayward spouses get a clear message from the battered spouse.

"I have been betrayed by you. You have hurt me, hurt our marriage but most importantly hurt our family and its future. I no longer can tolerate your behavior nor will I allow you to further damage our family. Do not "F" with me or our family any longer. Or further consequences will be felt by you..."

An alpha would expose the affair to the other battered spouse out of respect for her being totally in the dark, at risk for std's and out of respect for her families future. Doesn't she deserve a right to fight for her family?

She can also become an ally by taking the OM out of the equation for you.

What you decide to do is up to you. These choices are yours to make.

I will end this post by saying this Uhboy.

God gave men balls for a reason. To use them. 

I look forward to hearing about your use of them.

Filing was a great first step. But it is the 1st step of many that need to be taken.

Don't stop now. You and your kids will be better off without your wife. She has not been much of a wife or mother as of late.

And she will never, ever respect you until you start using your balls my friend.

Now go remind your wife who you are:

Man.
Lover.
Father.
Alpha.
Uhboy.

Soon to be a better man than she deserves.

Finish this mess and send a clear message to her that you will no longer be disrespected.

I had a friend in your exact same shoes three years ago.

A.He ended up with all the $$$.
B.He ended up with the house.
C.He ended up with his two daughters (full custody).
D.He ended up divorced in three months.
E.He ended up with his WW asking him to reconcile multiple times.
F.He now has a beautiful fiancé who is 8 years younger than his exwife.

He is learning to be happy again. he is no longer a beta.
his exwife learned a very valuable lesson.

Good luck on your journey.

HM


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Uhboy
> 
> I read your thread and just wanted to share some wisdom I have gained over the years.
> 
> ...


HM usualy posts short and to the point posts

But every word and every punctuation needed to be posted

Get to it 

55


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Already swallowed. Now it's MGTOW for me.
> 
> Yes I'm bitter. But the next 25 years will be better spent attending to my own needs, instead of hunting for a woman (who is probably divorced with children) from a pool of females with entitlement mentality and hypergamy.
> 
> ...


actually, I quite understand this entire post. Enjoy your church, bro.

As far as the "bitter" comment, You may think so, but that's a typical and expected shaming type comment. Pictureless feels what he needs to feel. He's still on his journey. If he wants to be MGTOW, good on him. He may enter more relationships with women, but I can't fault him for not wanting to get married. As long as the system remains as it is now, I completely understand this.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

happyman64 said:


> Uhboy
> 
> I read your thread and just wanted to share some wisdom I have gained over the years.
> 
> ...




She doesnt care if her family or friends know about the affair. In her mind, there is no affair if we are divorcing. But the OM wife, that will be taken care of.

An internalization of the alpha/beta concept perhaps would have altered the course of this marriage, but as previously posted, then I wouldnt have married her in the first place. But the fact I did speaks to the beta mindset I had at the time -- doesnt seem fair that we get conditioned into this and then figure it out after the damage has been done -- it should be required reading for all males. At least I'm getting out of this only after 6 yrs. 

I'd love to divorce wherever your friend did. Leaving her with no custody and no money would require her to be an incompetent mother with some sort of substance abuse problem where I'm from. I'll make out better than most of the guys that go through this given her traveling around. 

So, here's a question -- if beta mindset drives females away and the marriage ends up in divorce as she seeks alphas, when is divorce the fault of the female? Does this imply that alphas never marry or if they do they never divorce?


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

uhboy said:


> So, here's a question -- if beta mindset drives females away and the marriage ends up in divorce as she seeks alphas, when is divorce the fault of the female? Does this imply that alphas never marry or if they do they never divorce?


Both Alphas and Betas marry. To some females men become beta when they become husbands.

I know I was an alpha when I married. I know I'm a wounded Alpha now, but at the end I was a wimpy beta. For example:

She talked me out of divorcing her. I had a lawyer and everything, but she dragged me back in. Then more $hit tests, she dumped me, I dragged her back in. Then I dumped her, she dragged me back in. More $hit tests, she dumped me again, I dragged her back. Then MC, more tests and then wham! She files for divorce. 

I bought the lie. They all said she needs space, she's confused, try MC, learn to communicate with each other better, etc. Bull-crap! I put the work in, she didn't. Blue pill. I thought she was struggling. Nope, she was plotting exit strategy.

An Alpha would have been like see ya! I got options. Right from the start. I see that now. 

I do have options. I am better off without her.

And to the person who said you sound bitter and damaged, that's right because I am. Its my fault. I shouldn't have been so naïve and trusting. But I learn from my mistakes, my dope ex-wife just repeats them, another reason why I am better off without her.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Both Alphas and Betas marry. To some females men become beta when they become husbands.
> 
> I know I was an alpha when I married. I know I'm a wounded Alpha now, but at the end I was a wimpy beta. For example:
> 
> ...



I hear you. I felt betrayed, used, and abused, but then I'm like, aha...i get why she felt the desire to cheat, not that its acceptable, but I get it now. I wish I knew what I know now, but I don't know that it would have mattered in the end. She not only has burned thru 2 marriages, all of her other familial relationships are $hit....treats everyone like doormats, not just her husband.

I was alpha going into it....had never married, always dated multiple girls til i got to 40....then the unplanned pregnancy after we dated for 3 mos....lots of sex, she had moved from another city and didnt know a lot of people, which accelerated our relationship....she moved it along pretty quickly in retrospect, then wham! surprise! pregnant! The beta transformation began at that moment....if i had slapped myself I would have not married her, and raised the kid as single parents. I would have then realized she was a BPD and minimized her impact on my life. 

I'm curious how she will fare once her fantasy affair man finally dumps her. Wont matter I guess, she'll just move on to the next man to be #4. But what alpha would want to be #4 and help 3 little kids? She'll catch a beta, and repeat the pattern.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

> I'm curious how she will fare once her fantasy affair man finally dumps her.


Stop wondering about her. An Alpha don't care.



> Wont matter I guess, she'll just move on to the next man to be #4. But what alpha would want to be #4 and help 3 little kids?


A nice guy would=beta



> She'll catch a beta, and repeat the pattern.


Alpha *ucks, beta bucks. It's the nature of hypergamic women.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Let me show you the way Uhboy.



> She doesnt care if her family or friends know about the affair. In her mind, there is no affair if we are divorcing.


Who cares what she thinks. In fact, she cares what she will look like to others. Her attitude that you perceive is juts false bravado. She thinks she is trading up. 

But in reality they always affair down.

But an Alpha does not care what she thinks. All he knows is that he will no longer tolerate the situation he has been put in. He will no longer tolerate her affair. he will not allow any more damage to be done to himself or his family.

He does what it takes to protect his family.



> So, here's a question -- if beta mindset drives females away and the marriage ends up in divorce as she seeks alphas, when is divorce the fault of the female?


Beta does not drive a woman away. A female alpha would love a beta. We have a few relationships like that on TAM.

A woman that has low self esteem, poor boundaries and lousy self control is ripe for an affair. The fact she has no respect for you just made it easier.

The good thing is that even though you are divorcing her if you get tough and show her consequences, in time, she will learn to respect you.



> Does this imply that alphas never marry or if they do they never divorce?


Great question. Alphas marry. Alphas divorce. IMHO the best way to choose a life partner is to take your time and vet them well.

I dated my wife for six years, almost seven before we married. After my previous relationship that failed I got smart. I got tough. I raised my standards.

I became an Alpha.

Not too bag a lot of women. But to choose the right woman.

I will be married 22 years this year.

And we are both still smiling.

Like I said clean this mess up then focus on you.

In time you will be great!

As for my good friend that divorced his wife. He lives in Tennessee. They have very interesting laws down there when it comes to infidelity and divorce.

He used the laws and her ongoing affair to his advantage. He tried to reconcile for almost a year.

His life and that of his two young daughters is slowly returning too normal.

Yours will to.

HM


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> Stop wondering about her. An Alpha don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I know, I really don't care. I cared intensely after I discovered it....now, 3-4 mos later, the beta scales are falling off. 

What women aren't hypergamic? I thought it was central to the female specie...and secondly, if alpha 'controls' the relationship as she innately prefers, how does an alpha control her if she is in fact a control freak driven by underlying childhood issues that have yet to be resolved? It seems that being alpha can't necessarily result in a functioning LTR or marriage.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

> What women aren't hypergamic?


All of them. If the guy stays Alpha her hypergamic traits are kept in check. Read more!



> I thought it was central to the female specie...and secondly, if alpha 'controls' the relationship as she innately prefers, how does an alpha control her if she is in fact a control freak driven by underlying childhood issues that have yet to be resolved? It seems that being alpha can't necessarily result in a functioning LTR or marriage.


Aware Alpha's don't marry damaged goods. I know I was fooled. I'll do better next time. 

Females like our ex-wives had to bury their POS tendencies in order to hook us. They used their only bait to catch us, their sexuality. A woman's SMV gets her the best male available to her. When her rating starts to drop she has to drop her draws sooner and more often if she wants anyone to provide for her needs. If she's divorced, has kids, or both, she is more likely to attach to anyone (beta bucks) but long for better (alpha f*cks).

As the relationship progresses and we become comfortable (more beta), women like our ex-wives think their rating is unchanged, higher, or just as high as their POS/toxic friends. This triggers the hypergamic tendencies to surface but since we are content, don't read minds, believe in objective truth, and take vows seriously; we don't notice until its too late.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Pictureless said:


> All of them. If the guy stays Alpha her hypergamic traits are kept in check. Read more!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i've read a lot on it -- i just assumed they all were, and I get alpha traits keep them from wandering as they will have anxiety over their perception that they can be replaced as their alpha's always convey to them covertly that they have options. 

Good summary...She was damaged goods for sure, but I was so PW'd over her physical attributes I think I lost my mind for awhile there. i blame myself for not seizing on the sea of red flags that were whacking me over the head before we got pregnant and shortly thereafter. I had lots of chances to NEXT her but I didn't. Its valuable experience at least. Looking forward to applying this knowledge.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

> I get alpha traits keep them from wandering as they will have anxiety over their perception that they can be replaced as their alpha's always convey to them covertly that they have options.


If you keep yourself alpha you always have options because YOUR SMV is high.

That's the thing to remember. Our SMV decreases slower as we age, which keeps us in the market longer. But they like to make you think otherwise because they don't want you to know the truth-about yourself. 



> i blame myself for not seizing on the sea of red flags that were whacking me over the head before we got pregnant and shortly thereafter. I had lots of chances to NEXT her but I didn't.


That's why we hurt right now, brother. We didn't know. Heck, maybe we were beta's on steroids or something. Don't matter now its done.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

We know that almost all men look at women and wonder what it would be like to have sex with them. It us part of our nature. Women desire the attention of alpha males and it makes them horny. The biggest difference is that women love the men they have sex with, whereas male cheaters may often just want strange nookie but do not need to transfer their entire emotional life to OW.

Of course some affairs are just exit moves from failed relationships.

Reconciliation with a BPD WS is an unwise bet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> We know that almost all men look at women and wonder what it would be like to have sex with them. It us part of our nature. Women desire the attention of alpha males and it makes them horny. The biggest difference is that women love the men they have sex with, whereas male cheaters may often just want strange nookie but do not need to transfer their entire emotional life to OW.
> 
> Of course some affairs are just exit moves from failed relationships.
> 
> ...



Agree -- i think her affair was an exit move. Although the evidence I uncovered included a lot of expressions of love towards him, so probably some of both emotional/love affair and exiting. She held no accountability or remorse since then....just one heart to heart conversation where she basically said she couldnt not see him since he's a 'friend', a shoulder to cry on, and someone to give her a hug....ummm, oh, dont forget FB! She wasnt sure if she wanted to stay with the guy she has 3 kids with or move on. I made that choice easy for her by filing. Her emotional immaturity and tactlessness led me to give her the choice of him or our marriage, and ultimate rejection of reconciliation. Her version of that was to travel to see him while getting counseling. No thanks. I'll move onto better options. Made me unsettled to have to spend the rest of my life repairing this mess. Best to move on is what I figured. And also a little costanza-psychology too: if my ingrained inclination was to be agreeable to whatever she suggested, the opposite must be the right choice.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Women don't like indecisive men. Better not to be one
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Sh!tty situation. But great thread. Hang tough you are on the right track now. Keep your focus on you. It will get easier.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Women don't like indecisive men. Better not to be one
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




agree....drives me crazy too....men and women.....its an indicator of confidence


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Done with custody meeting -- thank god

she needs some serious therapy

freedom is near!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Done with custody meeting -- thank god
> 
> she needs some serious therapy
> 
> freedom is near!


I cannot wait for the fedex to the Church Council.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

Conrad said:


> I cannot wait for the fedex to the Church Council.



how does that guy look at himself in the mirror....same for her. she's nuts. the evaluators knew she wasnt well and were trying to be gracious to her to foster some sort of agreement. but she didnt know how to handle their questions and spent most of the time bashing me, which got her nowhere. then she said she couldnt decide right now and wanted to wait til we figure out the financial stuff....umm, wrong! seriously. using the kids as a bargaining chip? bad idea.


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

my stbx is driving me crazy -- she keeps accusing me of lying, of turning the kids against her, intentions to leave her with nothing, its crazy and making me anxious. Yet, she seems not to comprehend that an affair is by definition a lie -- she's shocked that I would characterize it as that. That its not lying to carry on an online and physical affair? What am I missing here.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I went through much of the same during my divorce. My advice is to go NC immediately. Yes you need to communicate for kids. But keep it strictly business. I would NOT answer a single phone call from her anymore. If it was the kids leaving a VM I would call back but only when it was convenient for me.

She is trying to keep emotional control and engage you. Do not play along. Use text or email. I used bullet points in the emails. Seemed appropriate for business, and that is all this is now.

ignore her comments about everything. Dont respond. Only reply when needed. Show no emotion.

Vent on TAM when you need to. You can get through this.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## uhboy (Feb 25, 2014)

cbnero said:


> I went through much of the same during my divorce. My advice is to go NC immediately. Yes you need to communicate for kids. But keep it strictly business. I would NOT answer a single phone call from her anymore. If it was the kids leaving a VM I would call back but only when it was convenient for me.
> 
> She is trying to keep emotional control and engage you. Do not play along. Use text or email. I used bullet points in the emails. Seemed appropriate for business, and that is all this is now.
> 
> ...


Thanks.....its a strange and kind of lonely feeling knowing your former spouse now views u as her enemy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

uhboy said:


> Thanks.....its a strange and kind of lonely feeling knowing your former spouse now views u as her enemy
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has for a long time.

Good to hear you can see it now.

In Hebrew, the word for "spouse" is the same as "adversary."

The Jews are a wise people.


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