# My Wife Won't Stop Her Affair With Another Father On My Son's Baseball Team



## LoveCloud

It's been two months since I discovered her batphone and all the risque and graphic texts and photos and conversations and life shattering information it contained. I was devastated that day and continue to be more devastated each passing moment. It was with a guy that she has known for years and whose son I have coached for years, alongside my son in baseball. I have to see this loser (lost his house and wife recently, and now lives at home with his mom... nice) almost every other day at practices and games, and she doesn't care. Many parents on the team know about the affair and shy away from both of them at games, but they are both there and sometimes talk to each other on the sidelines as I'm out on the field with the boys. It's heart-wrenching.

She has never apologized, shown remorse, or slowed down her escapades. In fact, now that I know about it, she seems to be more pursuing him with even more vigor and is almost flippant about it. She still lives in our house with me and our three wonderful children, although she's staked the couch as her bed now. She is a stay-at-home mom (although staying at home is no longer the right term for it). She stills sees him practically every day for lunch while the kids are in school (and I think she pays), every other evening until 11:30 and much, much later on the weekends. She suggests that since I don't like the way she's acting (as it's not very becoming of a married mother of three) and have so much trouble with it, I should leave. Until I discovered what was happening, she was loving and caring and thoughtful and I thought she was perfect. We have a great house in a great neighborhood, with great neighbors, friends, and family. A truly wonderful life, or so I thought. She had mentioned that she felt we were drifting apart and she felt more like a roommate the past year or so, but we were still doing things together, going away on trips together, having sex regularly, etc. Typical 17 year marriage stuff, but nothing "newlywed hot". I do regret not paying more attention to her and doting on her more, but life with three kids and lots of activities and work got in the way sometimes. That doesn't excuse my inattentiveness, but it doesn't give her justification for tearing our world apart either.

I have told her that I'm willing to try to forgive her past transgressions and work on restoring our marriage to something even better than it ever was, however, she is determined to continue her affair and has threatened divorce multiple times because she knows that is not what I want for our family. Every time I confront her with my frustration on how she's treating me with such venom and hatred that is far from justified, and so far from her normal behavior, she leaves the house and doesn't return for hours, if at all, stating that I'm crazy and I'm not handling this well (first time dealing with infidelity, so I haven't had lots of experience fortunately). Several of my friends have seen her sitting in parking lots all over town, sometimes with him in the car, sometimes by herself... texting, of course. When they do get together in the evenings and weekends, I'm pretty sure it's in parking lots behind local office buildings. Quite the parking lot romance. She is so addicted to the affair, it is text book.

Her mother, her sister, several of her friends, and my family (with whom she was very close) no longer talk to her and she claims that if people don't support her pursuing her happiness after she's spent the past 17 years making everyone else happy, then she doesn't need them in her life any more. She was very family oriented before all this. This new her is so different and so vulgar and so cruel. It's sad.

I have met with a lawyer and he's informed me that I can't kick her out, I can't change the locks, I have to maintain status quo (although I don't have to pay for hotel rooms or lunch for her boyfriend, but it's tough to stop those particular charges on the credit card if she's allowed to use it for day-to-day stuff as usual). It's beyond frustrating though that she can have her cake and can eat it too. I've tried outright ignoring her; she gets pissed at me and claims I have no respect for her. I've tried pouring out my heart, but she says that there is no way I should love her after what's she's done and she could never love me after that. In fact, she says she has no love for me now at all, only hatred, and that the only thing I have over her boyfriend is money and a job. I think I could add many other things to that list, but I don't think that will get me anywhere.

Anyone had any success with 180 or any other strategy when their spouse was so filled with hatred as soon as their affair was exposed? I still do love her, although I haven't told her that for a few weeks, and I do want to try everything possible before throwing in the towel. I think my family deserves that I make every possible attempt at salvaging something that I cherished so much before giving up. Any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas would be so appreciated. Thanks everyone.


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## tacoma

Divorce her, it`s the only thing that "might" get through to her.


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## CH

Get a bank account in your name only, all your money goes in there. Only put enough in the joint account for groceries and such for the kids/house, no more allowance for her.

Cancel all joint credit cards, lawyer up and get the D going as soon as possible. She's made it clear what she wants, sleep with he f-buddy and you pay the bills.

Expose at this point, let the guys wife know, let all the parents on the team know, tell your friends/parents etc.

You've got nothing to lose anymore except alimony payments and child support if she wins custody.

Do not allow her to have her way at your expense. I find it appalling (only because I was in her shoes) that she think she's getting no respect from you for spreading her legs for another man.

If she needs money to take her BF out to lunch, get her hair/nails done to look good for him, do it on his dime not yours. And yes, get the D papers going as soon as possible.


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## Shaggy

You can cut off the credit card and all her access to money. If she us a sham, she will only be able to mooch off of him.

For food, set up an account at a online grocer and have the stuff delivered.

Honestly, why not divorce her, she is humiliating you,herself, and her children,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Yes. Divorce. this went on way too far and you are way too accepting. No I would not stand for him and the wifey seeing each other at the baseball game. I am not sure why you let this progress as it has. She is trying to humiliate you by cuckolding you in front of the world. Very bad for a son to witness his father being cuckolded. Trust me he knows his mom is all over the other guy and not you. She is more flippant because you put up with it.

So you put the food on the table and she is a SAHM. Are there still kids not yet in school?


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## aug

LoveCloud said:


> *I have told her that I'm willing to try to forgive her past transgressions* and work on restoring our marriage to something even better than it ever was, however, she is determined to continue her affair and has threatened divorce multiple times because she knows that is not what I want for our family. Every time I confront her with my frustration on how she's treating me with such venom and hatred that is far from justified, and so far from her normal behavior, she leaves the house and doesn't return for hours, if at all, stating that I'm crazy and I'm not handling this well (first time dealing with infidelity, so I haven't had lots of experience fortunately). Several of my friends have seen her sitting in parking lots all over town, sometimes with him in the car, sometimes by herself... texting, of course. When they do get together in the evenings and weekends, I'm pretty sure it's in parking lots behind local office buildings. Quite the parking lot romance. She is so addicted to the affair, it is text book.
> 
> 
> 
> I have met with a lawyer and he's informed me that I can't kick her out, I can't change the locks, *I have to maintain status quo* (although I don't have to pay for hotel rooms or lunch for her boyfriend, but it's tough to stop those particular charges on the credit card if she's allowed to use it for day-to-day stuff as usual).



You're too forgiving. Why should there be no consequences for her?

Get a new lawyer. You can cut her credit card now. You dont have to pay for her credit card.

Start protecting yourself financially. No joint credit cards or bank accounts. Start hiding your cash and other assets.

Start collecting evidences and hide/secure them in a safe place.


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## crossbar

Do the children know what's going on?


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## CH

aug said:


> Start protecting yourself *financially*. No joint credit cards or bank accounts. Start *protecting* your cash and other assets.


Never use the word hide, if the spouse ever finds the site and figures out his screen name, a quick printout could spell doom for the OP. Never hide assets and cash, protect it from her spending the crap out of it. Once spent, she doesn't have to repay it if it's spent on non-tangible assets, hair/nails, lunch, dinners, motel rooms etc.

She'll probably get 1/2 of it anyways but at least you'll still have that 1/2 she probably would have pissed away to feed her affair.

Now if you want to help your sister/brother/parents put up a new roof/tile/bathroom/kitchen because they're short on cash then you can give them the money, remember give not loan. And keep it under $10k so it's a gift only and they won't have to pay taxes on it.


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## F-102

Get everything in order, (lawyers, finances, etc.) then when she threatens you with the D again, say: "Okay", and talk to her from now on like divorce is inevitable, say things like "Well, when YOU move out", or "After the divorce..."

Watch her change her mind, stat.


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## Entropy3000

ReasonableMan said:


> I'm sorry to hear of what you're going through and I admire you for trying to stay the course. Divorce can be very traumatic for everyone involved.
> 
> I think maybe your wife's anger has to do with the feeling she has that she's trapped in an unhappy situation in life. The pressure she feels from you and from her/your family also may be contributing to that. I don't mean that this is true, but that she sees it this way. This makes the OM seem like her savior and hero, even though from what you say he's anything but that.
> 
> Have you considered trying to be the best husband you can be, for a given amount of time. In other words, do the best you can for her and to be there for her for 6 months (or whatever time amount you choose). Then cut her off all together so that she sees the reality of having to make a choice. Some people like this Dr. Harley approach and you can go to his site for that.
> 
> I tend to favor the approach of maintaining the status quo, doing the best you can for her and your family and continuing counseling. Give her time to see the reality of all that you offer her and have built with her for those years. Let her see that the OM also has issues and failings and that he isn't a genuine option.
> 
> You can also take the advice of some people on this site, which is shoot first and ask questions later. You have said that you hope to remain married so I hope you don't let anyone talk you into doing that. Maintain your own schedule of what works for you and don't let yourself be pressured by those who may be re-enacting their own troubled relationships. If their advice works for you then by all means use it, but do so on your own terms.


So your wife is having sex with another guy and is flaunting it in front of you, your family and the community and you just double your efforts to be the best husband possible for her.

The idea of not being a doormat is to provide the best possibilty of reconsiling while preparing for the possibility of moving on. Being a doormat is not attractive. He is doing that now and she is being even more flippant about her behavior as it is turning her off even more. So by keeping the status quo she can cake eat all she wants and has no consequences for her behavior. It is 100% on him. How wonderful. This is the example that the son sees of his father. A man being humiliating and not be strong and assertive but submissive, passive and powerless to act.


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## hurthusb

I'm in a very similar situation and it's ongoing. I got all the same advice and I also can't do any of that.

What I did to was get therapy. First, Psychiatrist to get me over the crisis - the revelation of the affair, the pulling me into the conspiracy "for the good of the kids", the neediness, the begging her to come back to me, the hope, then the crushing disappointment when she doesn't come home on Friday night. Depression, suicidal thoughts, anxiety, the whole 9 yards.

Once I got a little more stable with the help of meds, I found a wonderful therapist. She kicked my ass. She made it very clear to me - I can't change her. I can't save her. All I can do is get myself healthy for the kids.

Finding out that it wasn't a secret was the breakthrough I needed - a LOT of people knew, they just didn't have the heart to tell me that my wife of 22 years was sleeping with another man. I found friends who were willing to support me, give me the human contact I craved and couldn't get at home. And one of those friends told me something that shocked me.

When your son is telling the story of his life to a girlfriend, he'll say "My father was badly hurt by something that my mother did. He was devastated".

And how will the story end - "And then he was so depressed he lost his job and ended up living with his father at 50 years old". 

OR 

"But he got help, got himself healthy and he's been a great Dad, keeping the family together as much as possible".

Your choice. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk.


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## ladybird

You need to put your foot down with her. She is doing it because you are letting her with no consequences for her action. Tell her to end it with the other man (OM) or you are done..

If she chooses to continue her affair file for divorce.


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## Entropy3000

ReasonableMan said:


> Entropy3000--I respectfully disagree. There are many ways for a man to be strong for his family. If she's otherwise been a good wife and they've got many years together, then strength can mean working to protect that. At the same time, those who retreat and surrender to divorce may be the ones who have been powerless.
> 
> Neither is right nor wrong, but just show the different options a person has when dealing with such a situation. However, each poster has the right to assess his or her options and do what they feel is best, and not be pressured by people who disagree.
> 
> Those who come on this forum and demand others act as they would are often those who were themselves truly the passive and powerless ones in their relationships. Not everyone uses the same methods as everyone else. I simply want to suggest another option.


I am no more demanding than your are. This situation is not at its early stages. It has become abusive. Being strong by tolerating abuse is one of those things where little bit goes a long way. Being a good role model also teaches the son how he should be treated. Having boundaries is a good thing. It takes real courage and a sense for right and wrong to wisely know when enough is enough. He needs to be an example of how a man should behave in life. Teaching his son to be humilated is not a good lesson IMHO. 

There is a time and place for putting in the lion share of effort to save a marriage and family. So yes your option is valid in its place. To be the source of ridicule in this exposed manner is not heathy for the children. Especially since both he and the OM are coaches. My point is that this situation is painted in such a way as to be well beyond that level. 

At some point it becomes counter-intuitive. You have to be willing to risk losing someone to be able to keep them. If we are consumed with losing something we hang on too tight and lose what we value most by doing so.

Ultimately of course your opinion is as good as anyones. The OP will have to see what makes sense for them. Hopefully they will learn from their circumstance and choose wisely. Askin someone to carry close to 100% of a relationship for too long is not helpful. I do understand Plan A / Plan B.


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## Chaparral

Cut her off. You are litteraly paying for her to have an affair. Let her get her own job. Time for her to see what real life is. Maybe the two of them can go live under a bridge.

My guess is, however, since you've been willing to pay for OM's affair and coach his son this is going to go on for a very long time. This is based on threads similar to this. Your just not going to stand up for your self.

I would suggest you get a VAR since they are probably using your house when your not around.


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## sadcalifornian

ReasonableMan said:


> I'm sorry to hear of what you're going through and I admire you for trying to stay the course. Divorce can be very traumatic for everyone involved.
> 
> I think maybe your wife's anger has to do with the feeling she has that she's trapped in an unhappy situation in life. The pressure she feels from you and from her/your family also may be contributing to that. I don't mean that this is true, but that she sees it this way. This makes the OM seem like her savior and hero, even though from what you say he's anything but that.
> 
> Have you considered trying to be the best husband you can be, for a given amount of time. In other words, do the best you can for her and to be there for her for 6 months (or whatever time amount you choose). Then cut her off all together so that she sees the reality of having to make a choice. Some people like this Dr. Harley approach and you can go to his site for that.
> 
> I tend to favor the approach of maintaining the status quo, doing the best you can for her and your family and continuing counseling. Give her time to see the reality of all that you offer her and have built with her for those years. Let her see that the OM also has issues and failings and that he isn't a genuine option.
> 
> You can also take the advice of some people on this site, which is shoot first and ask questions later. You have said that you hope to remain married so I hope you don't let anyone talk you into doing that. Maintain your own schedule of what works for you and don't let yourself be pressured by those who may be re-enacting their own troubled relationships. If their advice works for you then by all means use it, but do so on your own terms.


This may be a very humanitarian approach, but I don't think this method will work. WW in fog of A rarely wakes up by herself in any reasonable amount of time. It can last years for the fog to clear, during which time the BH should live the life of cuckhold. This is an abusive environment, and although the choice is his, I cannot recommend this. This is like asking someone to stay in M knowing there is abuse going on. 

What works is some kind of swift slap on the face(not literally) kind of shock that can snap them out of their fog. This can be done by exposure, being dumped by OM, threat of D, actual D, or the life after D. In this case, exposure did not work. And, OM is single and he has no reason to dump her. The threat of D has not worked; as a matter of fact, it is WW using this to scare BH to his place. 

So, at this point, the next available option is proceeding with Divorce. The chances are that once she realizes what she will lose with D, she may wake up from her fog running back to her H. Or, she may go along with D. But, I am 100% sure that she will wake up to realize what she has done soon after D. It could be a month after or 6 months or a year later. But, she will come to regret it considering the situation. I can bet my house on it. 

After D, if she comes to her senses and beg for BH to take her back, then that would be BH's decision. What's sad is that you know how the script will play out, and yet you still have no control to stop this. Is this how God feels looking down on us stupid humans?


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## Entropy3000

I was in an EA. My wife became aware. She intervened and saved our marriage. I love her no end for caring enough to hit me with the proverbial 2x4. I did not realize I was in an EA until I got through withdrawal. Then it was WTF was I thinking? The chemicals are strong.


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## michzz

I agree about not taking this abusive behavior your wife is spewing out.

However, I will caution you that when you draw the live in the sand and she appears to pull back from the brink and realize the error of her ways; that you verify, verify, verify.

A savvy cheating wife such as mine used the appearance of repair to take her affair into deep cover. She continued it for 8 years and hid that even longer.

All the while acting as if she was so glad she ended it and repaired things.

The level of hostility involved in doing that starts as your wife is doing.

Word to the wise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jnj express

Hey reasonable---this woman according to her betrayed H---hates him, flaunts her A., etc., etc---what would you have him do---either her brings her to reality, with a swift kick in the you know what---or he puts D, on the table---SHE ISN'T RESPONDING TO ANYTHING ELSE---how long should he let her walk all over him

Others have told you what to do---its time to start taking care of yourself, and your kids, and let your wife have her lover, and live at his mama's house

Declare a seperation, and cut her off completely--let her lover support her----you buy what is necessary for the kids---take your wife, off all insurances, take away the car, and tell her since she wants to be free and independent--to go for it---with all that money SHE EARNS


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## lordmayhem

LoveCloud,

Sorry your cheating wife enrolled you into the club that no one wants to join. You've been given great advice except for the one that wants you to engage in beta male behavior that will only prolong the agony of living in limbo and ultimately make things worse.

Your WW is practically rubbing the affair in your face for all to see, including family. Unfortunately for you, the OM is a loser who lives with parents and lost his job and family, so there is no one to expose the affair to. 

What you need to do is go on the hard 180. If you need information on the 180, PM and I'll send it to you. The 180 is not a tool to manipulate your wife, it is a tool to empower you and help you detach, and get you ready to move on with life, with or without her. 

What your WW is doing is what most WWs do, she is cake eating. She hates you, but wants the security of marriage, because she's a SAHM, but wants the freedom to screw her OM. Others have given you sound advice about cutting her off financially - she needs to feel the consequences of being in this affair. End any joint accounts, start separating yourself financially. Stop financing her affair. You can't make her move out, but you CAN make her sleep on the couch. This is your home, she is cheating in your face, make her leave the bedroom. 

Its time to let her feeling the consequences for her bad behavior. Right now, you're in the hell of limbo; not heading toward D, but definitely not in R. It's time to move towards D. If you want R, then she has to come out of the fog. If she doesn't want to come out of the fog, then you have no choice. Otherwise you can live as a cuckold who is sharing his wife with an OM. The choice is yours.


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## LoveCloud

I appreciate all the input, especially how quickly everyone has jumped in with opinions and suggestions to my dire life situation which, unfortunately, doesn't seem that different from most others. It's sad how consistently these stories follow the same script as the wayward wife allows herself to stay mired in the fog regardless of how many loved ones tell them they are acting differently and are not thinking rationally. Affection and adoration are strong drugs and tough to overcome in this situation.

To answer and clarify a few of the additional questions that have been asked...

All three of our kids are in school during the day so my wife does have free time on her hands, unfortunately. She is looking for a job but since she has been at home for the past 15 years, her experience is limited. She was previously an elementary school teacher so she is capable, but the job market is tight, and in my opinion, her mental acuity just isn't what it used to be (stupid wayward wife).

Our children (14, 11, and 6) don't know exactly what is happening, but they know that their mother sleeps on the sofa and isn't always home to put them in bed. Our 14 year old daughter has asked me several times if we were getting a divorce, and I've answered that I don't want that to happen and that her mother and I are working on some issues. The two younger boys are fairly oblivious and don't seem too concerned at all yet. They are all my biggest concern through all this though. She believes that the kids are young and resilient so while they may have an adjustment period, they'll be fine in the long run. She may be right, but I know that if we can develop a happy relationship together again, the kids would be even better.

I've been instructed by my attorney to not move money around at this point so if this does head towards divorce, her attorney won't be able to say I hid or redistributed money. That would make me look like I was trying to deceive her and the courts don't look favorably on that. My attorney suggests staying on the up and up, as this will give me a significant advantage especially given her continued unacceptable activities, which I log daily... it's a horrible list to review. That should give me an advantage when it comes to maintaining the house and more than 50% custody, if divorce is the path we take. I've filled out most of the legal paperwork as a precaution and to be prepared in case she actually does file herself, but I still consider that an absolute last resort.

I don't recall who mentioned it, but my crazed wife definitely feels that her loved ones (and me) telling her she is making a huge mistake only drives her closer to the other guy. He understands her. Yada, yada, yada. Since he is the only one telling her this a great choice, she eats up every word he says. It's such a fantasy world, I don't know how she doesn't recognize that.

I do agree and truly believe that at some point, she's going to realize her selfish choices have hurt more than just me (our kids, our families, our friends) and she'll come around, but I don't know how much longer I can withstand the torture her continued betrayal and vicious comments cause. This fog is such a powerful force and I can't figure out how to make her hit rock bottom if she refuses to move out of the house (guess we're both stubborn with that). She has her cake and she's eating it too. I realize that. I just don't want to leave the house that I've shared and maintained with her and the kids for the past 17 years, and per both our lawyers, we're both entitled to stay.

I'm going to do my best to hold out a little while longer, if at all possible, but I struggle so much when I know she is leaving to see him or when she doesn't come home from shopping for several hours and I know she's been with him somewhere. I'm really interested in knowing if anyone has any strategies or thoughts on what to say to her as she's leaving or when she returns from these escapades. I want her to feel guilty and remorseful for leaving both me and the kids for very selfish reasons, but she never seems to feel even a flicker of guilt.


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## sadcalifornian

Like LordMayhem said, a real hard 180 or proceeding with D seems the only answer. What do you say to her when she leaves to see OM? I don't think there are any magic words you can say to make any difference really. If you say anything substantial, it would start a heavy dialogue about D and all, unless that's what you want. 

For me, I would just say, "Have a good time with OM" for sarcasm, or "Are you seeing OM again?" to remind her what she's doing, or "Have you packed a condom?" to let her know you know she is having sex with him, or "Say Hi to your boyfriend.", or "Just don't get yourself pregnant", etc...

The bottom line, though, is you have to take an action. You can't let this impasse go on forever. Also, if I were you, I would let my oldest daughter know what's going on. 13 seems old enough to handle it. I know you want to protect your children, but if it comes to the point where you are about to start D, I think she should know why. After all, she is in this mess together, and her life will be terribly affected by her mom's actions anyway. Besides, she will figure it out herself pretty soon regardless.


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## lordmayhem

ANYTHING you say at this point will fall on deaf ears at this point because she's so deep in the fog of the affair with the OM. To her, OM is the answer to all her dreams and they've adopted the *"us against the world"* attitude. So mere words aren't going to accomplish anything.

Part of the 180 says to not discuss the relationship, so don't. You can't make her do anything. You can't make her love you. You can't make her leave the OM. You simply can't control her. You can only control what you do. And that means start to detach and resolve any of your codependency issues. Just let her go. If she ends up running to the OM, there's nothing you can do about that because you lost her anyway. She has to come to the realization on her own that OM isn't really Mr. Wonderful, but just some loser wanting an easy lay because he destroyed his own life. That will only come once reality hits the affair.


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## aug

Some suggestions...

1. Dont have sex with her now. Her getting pregnant now would not be good for you.

2. You dont have to pay off her credit card that she uses to pay for her tryst. If you do, it could be seen as your encouragement of her adultery.

3. Take all the money you have and put it in a bank account in trust that you control. Only use it to pay your family's necessities. You hold strict control of the money. Be upfront about the money. Dont let her have a cent that can go towards the affair.

4. You need to show in your actions that you are not a continuous enabler of her adultery.

5. Make her get a job now. Any job.

6. If she doesnt like any of this, she can move out and stay with the OM.


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## lordmayhem

LoveCloud, we've seen this many times before on this forum, where the WS is completely unrepentant and unremorseful, and rubbing the affair in the face of the BS. When the WS has reached this point and is so deeply in the fog, the only alternative is to initiate drastic action. Talking with her only falls on deaf ears, and working on yourself is not going to be noticed or appreciated either. The OP, at this point in time, is their savior. Sorry that you're at this point. I hope you haven't gotten the "he's my soul mate" crap from her.


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## Zzyzx

Regarding the money issues, IANAL, but I believe community (or marital) expenses and debts can still be accumulated by both parties until divorce or legal separation is filed for. So if your attorney is telling you not to move money around but divorce hasn't been filed yet, perhaps you should get a second opinion. The point being first you don't need to be subsidizing the affair and second the possibility exists that she will strike first and clean the accounts out and max out the credit card. Sure you can get some money back down the road via court actions, but the key is ... down the road.


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## LoveCloud

Entropy3000... How did you get your epiphany that your EA was a mistake that you needed to stop? Was it simply your wife's discovery of it or was there something else that snapped you out of it? Definitely interested in your experience.


I'm going to start the hard 180 this morning and see where that leads. I've done the ignoring before (with the exception of kid related stuff), but only for a couple days in a row and it definitely does affect her. She's thrown it back in my face as me not wanted to save this marriage and this family even though I consistently tell her that's my goal. She says I have a horrible way of trying to show her I want to salvage anything. It's amazing how she can turn absolutely every little thing I say or do as the worst possible thing imaginable to her. It's currently a no-win situation... but I do plan to eventually win, somehow.

It's still baffling how this sweet and cheery person who has saved every birthday and anniversary card we've ever given to each other over the past 17 years (and actually, the 6 years prior to that too) could turn into this vicious and hateful person in such a short period of time. Ahh... the fog. Stupid wayward wife.


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## Chaparral

Opening a new bank account isn't moving money around. Then quit putting money in joint account. Canceling credit cards isn't moving money around either. 

At this point she's just rubbing it in your face. In her mind you are just the exremely stupid bad guy for financing her affair.

Doesn't sound like you've got much of a divorce lawyer. Find a junk yard dog type lawyer or your going to get raped.

Look up the 180

Filing divorce papers doesn't have to lead to divorce but can be called off at any time if she wakes up. She thinks she has you alltied up because you love her.

Let 14 yr old know, she can help you.


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## gonefishin

Your situation is a perfect reason why we need to change the divorce laws.

I know in some states they (legislators) are looking at ideas or laws to better protect the spouse that is the victim of infidelity.

As it stands now, you have no legal recourse against the man having an affair with your wife. It sounds like this guy is a loser and has nothing to loose financially. If he did have money, I think he should loose something. It sounds like your heading down the divorce road. It is going to be very expensive.

You will end up picking up the tab for this destruction your wife and this other man caused. Stay calm, keep your emotions in check in front of her and the kids. Make sure your driving this bus. Do not let your wife start dictating the terms of your marriage. 

Ask your wife to move out. Who knows, she may take you up on it. If she asks you say no. You move out, next thing you know the dirt bag moves in. Smart move getting the lawyer. It also sounds like you have family and the community on the right side, your side.

Good luck.


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## jayde

ReasonableMan said:


> Then cut her off all together so that she sees the reality of having to make a choice. Some people like this Dr. Harley approach and you can go to his site for that.


I've read some of the Dr. Harley articles - just _mindfully_ read them. Most of the advice seems sound and common sense, but some, especially as is pertains to what men should do, is at best doormat like, at worst creepy. And with all due respect, 'being the best husband one can be' while the wife is flaunting an affair falls into the latter category, IMHO. IDK, being married to a woman (in all sense of being married, with intimacy) _while_ she's having sex with another man . . . . 'gross' doesn't quite capture my emotion here. Sorry to be graphic but isn't this the reality of this advice?


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## morituri

Consult with a divorce attorney with regards to obtaining a legal separation to protect the marital assets and your credit rating from being destroyed by your WW. 

Like it or not, your WW at this moment IS your enemy and it is your duty to protect yourself and your children from her destructive behavior.


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## Shaggy

Your lawyer seems to have only given you simplistic advice on how to prepare for a divorce. He didn't gove you legal advice on dealing with a cheating wife.

You do not need to fund her in a marriage. While it is true that money and assets are joint, and are divided in the divorce, there is no guarantee or right of access to monies during marriage.

This means you can have your paycheck deposited into an account only you access. So cut off her access to $. 

This means that you do not have to share credit cards. Cancel any joint cards. Yes she could go get her own, but she will need your cash to pay it, so once she runs it to the limit that's it.

You fo not have to talk to her, and you do not have to do duuportive things for her. No laundry, shopping, etc. Only things for you and the kids.

If people in the community know, then it will get to your kids school mates and they will get humiliated at school. Especially the 14 yr old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan

LoveCloud said:


> I'm going to start the hard 180 this morning and see where that leads. I've done the ignoring before (with the exception of kid related stuff), but only for a couple days in a row and it definitely does affect her. She's thrown it back in my face as me not wanted to save this marriage and this family even though I consistently tell her that's my goal.


Its ironic that she is the one trying to end the marriage but wants to blame you. This is her way of manipulating you so you will continue to support her and her affair. 

Change your tactics, tell her now you do want a divorce. This will take away her safety net. Tell her you no longer want to stay married to a someone that blatantly cheats and disrespects her family. She has given you no choice, you have to divorce her now.

She will NOT want this and it will start to make her panic when it sinks in. 



> She says I have a horrible way of trying to show her I want to salvage anything.


Irony, she is cheating what does she expect? She screwed up and it should be HER job to fix things, not you. Cheating is a deal breaker in most relationships. You trying to be a better husband while she cheats is rewarding bad behavior. 



> It's amazing how she can turn absolutely every little thing I say or do as the worst possible thing imaginable to her. It's currently a no-win situation... but I do plan to eventually win, somehow.


You can win, tell her she is right about everything, its your fault she cheated so to make things right and for her own happiness, you will set her free by divorcing her. 



> It's still baffling how this sweet and cheery person who has saved every birthday and anniversary card we've ever given to each other over the past 17 years (and actually, the 6 years prior to that too) could turn into this vicious and hateful person in such a short period of time. Ahh... the fog. Stupid wayward wife.


Yup, they revert to a child-like state of selfishness. You basically have to treat them like a child.


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## NotLikeYou

Lovecloud- I'm very sorry to read about your situation. It sucks to be stuck in the fog alongside your cheating spouse, and it can be hard to find your way out, much less get your spouse and marriage out of the fog intact.

Yes, you read that right. you are stuck in your own personal fogbank.

I'm not an attorney, but in reading your last comment, I think either you need a new attorney, or you didn't understand what he told you. He told you "not to move money around because it would make you look like you were trying to deceive?" I got some bad news for you. The courts don't care that your wife has her heels up in the air several times a week as her boyfriend bangs her like a kettle. The court will look at your log of her daily hookups and say "gee, you sure do pay attention to details about which you have no proof of anything going on," and assign joint custody, which is to say she will have 51% control, which is all the difference in the world.

Other posters are telling you that you are screwing up by doing the things that you are doing. They are right. If you are asking "what kind of sarcastic comments can I make as she is walking out the door to get her daily protein injection," YOU ARE LOSING. If you are waiting around for her to "realize her selfish choices have hurt more than just me," you are going to be waiting a long long time.

The truth of the matter is, you will find yourself withstanding "the torture her continues betrayal and vicious comments cause" until you have not one ounce of self respect left. Because you are in your own fog.

So I will try to provide you with a beacon, in the form of short sentences with small words.

A healthy, confident man does not let his woman use his money to pay for a hotel room to have sex with another man. A healthy, confident man does not beg his cheating partner to stop- he walks away, and never looks back. If she figures out her mistake, runs along behind him and catches up with him, where ever he is going, it is his choice whether or not to take her back.

You are doing absolutely nothing to stop your wife from continuing her affair. Making scathing comments as she walks out the door is not going to change that. File for divorce. Cut off the money supply. Do the grocery shopping yourself. Put your house up for sale- the threat of losing the roof over your head can really make someone stop doing what they're doing and pay attention. And for God's sake, read up on the 180 and start living it.


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## Shaggy

With her at home and everyone gone, it likely they are meeting up there and using your bed. You need to pop home during the day, and you need both VARs and cameras in your home today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Uggggggg.

I'm sorry about what is happening. But, I wish I could shake you out of your own smog.

I didnt get a chance to read every reply, Im certain this has been brought up. 

There is one way out of this, ONE.

CONSEQUENCES. 

No amount of showering her with love, no amount of guilt, no amount of anything is going to magically shake this women out of a fog this deep. 

She is not living in reality. She is as high as a kite. She is a out of control drug addict. 

It is time to call in the heavy artillery. Play hard ball. 

Get this through your head, Your marriage is OVER. You may recover something, and you may have a life with this women beyond this. Who knows?, you may not even want it by then. anyway that is wayyyyyyyy down the road and it depends on what you do right now. The marriage you remember is over, you have nothing to lose. NOTHING. It's done. 

You want a chance? She needs consequences. She needs you to take action.


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## Saffron

Agree with posters that you should file for Divorce. Doesn't mean it needs to happen, but it's the only thing at this point that has any possibility of snapping her out of the fog.

The way your marriage is progressing, I see a few possibilities . . .

1. Your wife will stay in the affair until she finally asks for a divorce, so she can officially be with the OM.

2. Your wife will stay in the affair until it's over. Then she'll feign remorse for her back-up plan, you. She'll put in a meager effort until another Mr. Right comes along, then start up another affair. She'll keep looking until she finds someone to divorce you over.

3. You file for divorce. This way, your wife will need to make a choice. She may choose divorce, but it was just a matter of time anyway. Or she may choose to fight for you and her marriage.

With the first two situations, your wife sees you as second choice. You will always be there, so you never need to be considered as number one. In the third option, you are showing her that you are no second choice. You would prefer to be alone, then to take her sloppy seconds.

When I first thought my husband was only in an EA, I didn't know if I could forgive him. On d-day he said things like, "Don't stay with me because of the kids" and "If you don't think you can forgive me, let me go." It was foggy talk and he had OW in his mind as back-up. As soon as he confessed the PA, I said I wanted a divorce. Then it was like a light switched in his head and he finally realized, he was going to loose me. He didn't want OW, he wanted me. I didn't have to file, my words alone were enough. His tune completely changed. "Think of the kids" and "You don't need to forgive me, I'll wait as long as you'll have me" were some of the pleas I heard for me to consider R. Polar opposite of what he was saying just hours earlier.

To change your situation, you have to be willing for it to _change_. Right now you're still fighting for it to go back to the way it was, but that is gone forever. Even if your wife drops the affair, your love will slowly die if she continues treating you with disrespect. We've seen it before, someone forgives their spouse for an affair, but then 2 years later the LS wants out. To truly move beyond an affair, you need both people working extra hard to save the marriage. Otherwise, it's only a matter of time before one wants out.

Save yourself years of heartbreak and ask to get out now. If she comes to her senses, great! Maybe you can actually R. But if she doesn't, then you only sped up a painful process of a slow marital death.

I wish you the best, no one deserves to be treated the way you're being treated. It still shocks me how cruel someone can be to a person they once loved.


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## Entropy3000

sadcalifornian said:


> Like LordMayhem said, a real hard 180 or proceeding with D seems the only answer. What do you say to her when she leaves to see OM? I don't think there are any magic words you can say to make any difference really. If you say anything substantial, it would start a heavy dialogue about D and all, unless that's what you want.
> 
> For me, I would just say, "Have a good time with OM" for sarcasm, or "Are you seeing OM again?" to remind her what she's doing, or "Have you packed a condom?" to let her know you know she is having sex with him, or "Say Hi to your boyfriend.", or "Just don't get yourself pregnant", etc...
> 
> The bottom line, though, is you have to take an action. You can't let this impasse go on forever. Also, if I were you, I would let my oldest daughter know what's going on. 13 seems old enough to handle it. I know you want to protect your children, but if it comes to the point where you are about to start D, I think she should know why. After all, she is in this mess together, and her life will be terribly affected by her mom's actions anyway. Besides, she will figure it out herself pretty soon regardless.


Good points here. Also as your lawyer would tell you by default any children that come out of this affair are yours to support. You have to challenge that.

I can't see how any words at all would be anything but bitter and weak at best. Even tongue in cheek comments are really pitiful even if a little painful for her. Any comments only push her further away unless you move ahead with consequences.

Being a martyr is not a productive role. Later on in life you will look at the current times as a wasted opportunity. You can still be a good father but you have to start looking for a new life. How many years can you go without having a woman to love and be loved by? It does sounds like you have prepped with a lawyer. How long do you wait before you can ove to the next level? Are you waiting for the affair to run its course? Woudl you really want that woman back? What stops her from having more OM?

So because she cannot get a job she has free time for affairs. Sweet. Sure there are office place affairs. But this was a bored woman no doubt.


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## lordmayhem

LoveCloud said:


> I'm going to start the hard 180 this morning and see where that leads. I've done the ignoring before (with the exception of kid related stuff), but only for a couple days in a row and it definitely does affect her. She's thrown it back in my face as me not wanted to save this marriage and this family even though I consistently tell her that's my goal. She says I have a horrible way of trying to show her I want to salvage anything. It's amazing how she can turn absolutely every little thing I say or do as the worst possible thing imaginable to her. It's currently a no-win situation... but I do plan to eventually win, somehow.


You're doing the 180 for the wrong reasons. It's not about winning or losing. The 180 is a tool for you to help you grow stronger mentally, help you detach from her, and help minimize your codependency issues. It's NOT a tool to manipulate her. It may have the side effect of making you look more attractive, but that's not the main purpose. 

Again, do not let her blame shift anything on to you. She's rubbing the affair in your face for goodness sakes! Besides, you are not supposed to be talking about your relationship while doing the 180. Ignore her atttempts to blame shift. Only talk about finances or the children's well being, no marriage talk.


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## lordmayhem

Shaggy said:


> With her at home and everyone gone, it likely they are meeting up there and using your bed. You need to pop home during the day, and you need both VARs and cameras in your home today.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was thinking the same thing. She's a SAHM and he's unemployed. They have plenty of time and opportunity to pursue a PA. And as with most PAs, its most likely unprotected sex. Gross I know.


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## rrrbbbttt

Someone once said "Nice Guys finish last" when you have a WS in a relationship that is true. By being a "Nice Guy" she has shown in her actions she does not respect you and is using you as a doormat.

Things you need to do as others have pointed out put your money in an account only you control.

Big Issue sit down with your children and let them know that "Mom" is seeing another man. If you don't do this "Mom" who is home may poison the well with your children about you. They know more about what is going on in the world then you think, you need to let them and the rest of the family know about what is going on.

From your posts no matter what happens you will take her back but Tell your wife that prior to her coming back as your wife she needs to get tested for STD's. This goes over like a lead ballon but you need to protect yourself and the family.

Quit supporting her financialy. 

Her statements to you that any action you take is not making the marriage work is her trying to justify it. Sorry to say this but you need to "Man up". This is a WAR and there will be some blood spilled and psychological damage from the affair. It all depends on how you handle it.

One final thing take the time to self examine this issue. " Your wife comes back to you, the affair is over, but this incident will be in your mind the rest of your life." Can you accept that or if it will eat you alive, believe me it will never leave your mind and you will always have TRIGGERS which will remind you of how your wife treated you like a piece of S**T. If you can't handle that you need to quit thinking that all you want is Reconciliation and think of how you want your relationship to be with your children and others when this is over.


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## AFEH

LoveCloud said:


> Entropy3000... How did you get your epiphany that your EA was a mistake that you needed to stop? Was it simply your wife's discovery of it or was there something else that snapped you out of it? Definitely interested in your experience.
> 
> 
> I'm going to start the hard 180 this morning and see where that leads. I've done the ignoring before (with the exception of kid related stuff), but only for a couple days in a row and it definitely does affect her. She's thrown it back in my face as me not wanted to save this marriage and this family even though I consistently tell her that's my goal. She says I have a horrible way of trying to show her I want to salvage anything. It's amazing how she can turn absolutely every little thing I say or do as the worst possible thing imaginable to her. It's currently a no-win situation... but I do plan to eventually win, somehow.
> 
> *It's still baffling how this sweet and cheery person who has saved every birthday and anniversary card we've ever given to each other over the past 17 years (and actually, the 6 years prior to that too) could turn into this vicious and hateful person in such a short period of time. Ahh... the fog. Stupid wayward wife.*


That’s very easy to explain. Your wife is deluded. She “believes things that are not real or true”. It can take a while for that to sink in. Being deluded is a Mental Illness.

Think on your wife as having two separate and distinct characters, each with their own “personal history”. Two distinctly different people in one body. And the one does not know the other exists. It is a mental illness. So she may be either temporarily or permanently mentally ill. I think on it as a form of schizophrenia.

There is not much you can do for her. She’s on a course that you cannot change but you may well wreck yourself trying. The very best you can do is 1) Take very good care of yourself. That is exceptionally important because you are going to need all the strength and resilience you can muster and without that you cannot 2) Take excellent care of your children and of course 3) Be as humanistic with your wife as you possibly can given your history weighed up with the circumstances you are now in.

And then proceed as surely as you can towards separation and divorce while enacting the 180. And keep heading to divorce and enacting the 180. Your wife may well “see” what’s going on and WHAT SHE WILL LOOSE IF SHE DOESN’T TURN AROUND!

And you may well see the woman you know is inside of her make a reappearance. But you will not see that by being weak, a doormat. You have to be strong and be a man for it to happen. By your writing I know you have it in you.


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## Entropy3000

LoveCloud said:


> Entropy3000... How did you get your epiphany that your EA was a mistake that you needed to stop? Was it simply your wife's discovery of it or was there something else that snapped you out of it? Definitely interested in your experience.
> 
> 
> I'm going to start the hard 180 this morning and see where that leads. I've done the ignoring before (with the exception of kid related stuff), but only for a couple days in a row and it definitely does affect her. She's thrown it back in my face as me not wanted to save this marriage and this family even though I consistently tell her that's my goal. She says I have a horrible way of trying to show her I want to salvage anything. It's amazing how she can turn absolutely every little thing I say or do as the worst possible thing imaginable to her. It's currently a no-win situation... but I do plan to eventually win, somehow.
> 
> It's still baffling how this sweet and cheery person who has saved every birthday and anniversary card we've ever given to each other over the past 17 years (and actually, the 6 years prior to that too) could turn into this vicious and hateful person in such a short period of time. Ahh... the fog. Stupid wayward wife.


First off my wife caught it early enough. I was certain I was just very good friends with the OW. My wife was able to reason with me in a firm way that this was not right. She showed me some emails and the language used. I never stopped loving my wife. She also enlisted the help of some co-worker friends. So they intervened as well. I was already in the process of changing jobs, so that was critical in NC. There still was some back sliding in emails from my new job but after six weeks of withdrawal and some meds I finally came to my senses. It was only then I realized it was not right. Later when we did His Needs her Needs together it became crystal clear. My wife forgave me long ago but I did not fully forgive myself for a very long time.


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## Dadof3

Lovecloud,

You definitely have a BIG problem. While the BIG problem is your wife, you can't do much about what she is doing. This leads to the 2nd problem - your lawyer. 

Get a NEW lawyer - this one isn't helping you any but prolonging your pain. Solving the 2nd problem will get you further in solving the 1st one.

Dr Phil would say - "How's that working for ya?" Please think about this. 

Some of the other posters put scenarios in for what would happen with the wife.

If she's only with you cause you have a job - well guess who becomes the loser when you D her - the OM. She should have NO benefit what so ever with doing what she is doing. Be a MAN, find your B*lls and start using them again. 

Ask her to leave, and tell her the OM should be prepared to take her B*lls*it now as you are letting her go, and get those D papers filed PRONTO!


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## Entropy3000

gonefishin said:


> Your situation is a perfect reason why we need to change the divorce laws.
> 
> I know in some states they (legislators) are looking at ideas or laws to better protect the spouse that is the victim of infidelity.
> 
> As it stands now, you have no legal recourse against the man having an affair with your wife. It sounds like this guy is a loser and has nothing to loose financially. If he did have money, I think he should loose something. It sounds like your heading down the divorce road. It is going to be very expensive.
> 
> You will end up picking up the tab for this destruction your wife and this other man caused. Stay calm, keep your emotions in check in front of her and the kids. Make sure your driving this bus. Do not let your wife start dictating the terms of your marriage.
> 
> Ask your wife to move out. Who knows, she may take you up on it. If she asks you say no. You move out, next thing you know the dirt bag moves in. Smart move getting the lawyer. It also sounds like you have family and the community on the right side, your side.
> 
> Good luck.


Yes, I suspect her goal is to have the husband move out so he can move in and enjoy the home the husband has paid for with the former love of his life. Sigh.


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## Entropy3000

jayde said:


> I've read some of the Dr. Harley articles - just _mindfully_ read them. Most of the advice seems sound and common sense, but some, especially as is pertains to what men should do, is at best doormat like, at worst creepy. And with all due respect, 'being the best husband one can be' while the wife is flaunting an affair falls into the latter category, IMHO. IDK, being married to a woman (in all sense of being married, with intimacy) _while_ she's having sex with another man . . . . 'gross' doesn't quite capture my emotion here. Sorry to be graphic but isn't this the reality of this advice?


As I recall it was about Plan A / Plan B. Do a Plan A so that when you do the 180 they have a reason to miss you. But I don't remember Dr. Haley saying a man has to cuckold himself. Maybe we have some of those hard line marriagebuilder forum folks coming over here. I like Dr. Harley but I think some folks totally misinterpret him.

Cuckolding oneselft is very creepy and a bad example to ones children.


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## Gabriel

ArmyofJuan said:


> Its ironic that she is the one trying to end the marriage but wants to blame you. This is her way of manipulating you so you will continue to support her and her affair.
> 
> *Change your tactics, tell her now you do want a divorce. This will take away her safety net.* Tell her you no longer want to stay married to a someone that blatantly cheats and disrespects her family. She has given you no choice, you have to divorce her now.
> 
> She will NOT want this and it will start to make her panic when it sinks in.
> 
> 
> Irony, she is cheating what does she expect? She screwed up and it should be HER job to fix things, not you. Cheating is a deal breaker in most relationships. You trying to be a better husband while she cheats is rewarding bad behavior.
> 
> 
> You can win, tell her she is right about everything, its your fault she cheated so to make things right and for her own happiness, you will set her free by divorcing her.
> 
> 
> Yup, they revert to a child-like state of selfishness. You basically have to treat them like a child.


DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!! We have a winner. Exactly. Take away the option of the stability you provide. Let her fall down.

Here's the thing - she will either panic and snap out of the fog, and slowly repent, OR, she will yell and scream and take you up on it, and leave for the OM. And that's totally okay. She is looking like a total ***** right now to the whole community seeing her in cars, talking to him at the games while you coach. The behavior is unconsionable (sp?). And everybody knows it, her family, etc. So she can live in the OM's mom's basement with the whole communitiy calling her a **** who abandoned her family, and you look like the victim. And all of that would be accurate.

She might, however, see that coming, and realize how badly she is behaving, and actually end the A. But that can't happen without you pulling the 180 and removing yourself as an option first.


----------



## Entropy3000

NotLikeYou said:


> Lovecloud- I'm very sorry to read about your situation. It sucks to be stuck in the fog alongside your cheating spouse, and it can be hard to find your way out, much less get your spouse and marriage out of the fog intact.
> 
> Yes, you read that right. you are stuck in your own personal fogbank.
> 
> I'm not an attorney, but in reading your last comment, I think either you need a new attorney, or you didn't understand what he told you. He told you "not to move money around because it would make you look like you were trying to deceive?" I got some bad news for you. The courts don't care that your wife has her heels up in the air several times a week as her boyfriend bangs her like a kettle. The court will look at your log of her daily hookups and say "gee, you sure do pay attention to details about which you have no proof of anything going on," and assign joint custody, which is to say she will have 51% control, which is all the difference in the world.
> 
> Other posters are telling you that you are screwing up by doing the things that you are doing. They are right. If you are asking "what kind of sarcastic comments can I make as she is walking out the door to get her daily protein injection," YOU ARE LOSING. If you are waiting around for her to "realize her selfish choices have hurt more than just me," you are going to be waiting a long long time.
> 
> The truth of the matter is, you will find yourself withstanding "the torture her continues betrayal and vicious comments cause" until you have not one ounce of self respect left. Because you are in your own fog.
> 
> So I will try to provide you with a beacon, in the form of short sentences with small words.
> 
> A healthy, confident man does not let his woman use his money to pay for a hotel room to have sex with another man. A healthy, confident man does not beg his cheating partner to stop- he walks away, and never looks back. If she figures out her mistake, runs along behind him and catches up with him, where ever he is going, it is his choice whether or not to take her back.
> 
> You are doing absolutely nothing to stop your wife from continuing her affair. Making scathing comments as she walks out the door is not going to change that. File for divorce. Cut off the money supply. Do the grocery shopping yourself. Put your house up for sale- the threat of losing the roof over your head can really make someone stop doing what they're doing and pay attention. And for God's sake, read up on the 180 and start living it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Sorry there is nothing about marriage that says a partner should put up with this. This is abuse. How could a woman go back to a man that she is cuckolding? This woman does not even have a job!!! She is just a bored selfish person. Frankly I get that we all love people just because, but really this woman's value of a wife is zero.


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## Entropy3000

So a somewhat peripheral issue. You and the OM are coaches for a baseball team. He has a son on the team? You are the head coach?

You pointed out that it is obvious to most people about your wife's affair from their interactions at these events. At some point your son is going to notice this too. Or some kid is going to tease him because they heard their parents make a rude comment about it.

She flaunts this in your face. I am assuming it is not overt. i.e. they are not holding hands, holding onto each other in the stands or having little kisses and such. This seems a very volatile situation. Meaning at some point even if you do not plan on it, there is a danger that you just might lose it under this public humiliation. I guess this is not a big deal right now for you. Maybe you will not react no matter how public their affection. BUT, even if a miracle occurs her display of affection for this other man will always be public record. A tad awkward I would think. A minor thing in the big picture I am sure. Just the act of her leaving with the OM after the game should make the kids wonder why is mommy going off with Coach Jerqov?

I guess she has not progressed to spending the night with the OM but they do have all day together so maybe that will not happen since he does not have his own place. He is hoping to be moving into your house no doubt. Yes, put a VAR or two in your home. They probably use your home for thier fun on occasion. I would think that type of data would be valuable if she denies having sex with the OM.


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## Runs like Dog

I don't get it. She's screwing around. You know about it. She knows you know, she won't stop and she's doing it in front of you. That's not cheating. That's telling you to go f^ck yourself. Pack her stuff and put it on the lawn or something.


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## lordmayhem

What is it with these SAHMs that makes them so vulnerable to affairs? Is it just plain boredom?


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## Halien

LoveCloud said:


> I appreciate all the input, especially how quickly everyone has jumped in with opinions and suggestions to my dire life situation which, unfortunately, doesn't seem that different from most others. It's sad how consistently these stories follow the same script as the wayward wife allows herself to stay mired in the fog regardless of how many loved ones tell them they are acting differently and are not thinking rationally. Affection and adoration are strong drugs and tough to overcome in this situation.
> 
> To answer and clarify a few of the additional questions that have been asked...
> 
> All three of our kids are in school during the day so my wife does have free time on her hands, unfortunately. She is looking for a job but since she has been at home for the past 15 years, her experience is limited. She was previously an elementary school teacher so she is capable, but the job market is tight, and in my opinion, her mental acuity just isn't what it used to be (stupid wayward wife).
> 
> Our children (14, 11, and 6) don't know exactly what is happening, but they know that their mother sleeps on the sofa and isn't always home to put them in bed. Our 14 year old daughter has asked me several times if we were getting a divorce, and I've answered that I don't want that to happen and that her mother and I are working on some issues. The two younger boys are fairly oblivious and don't seem too concerned at all yet. They are all my biggest concern through all this though. She believes that the kids are young and resilient so while they may have an adjustment period, they'll be fine in the long run. She may be right, but I know that if we can develop a happy relationship together again, the kids would be even better.
> 
> I've been instructed by my attorney to not move money around at this point so if this does head towards divorce, her attorney won't be able to say I hid or redistributed money. That would make me look like I was trying to deceive her and the courts don't look favorably on that. My attorney suggests staying on the up and up, as this will give me a significant advantage especially given her continued unacceptable activities, which I log daily... it's a horrible list to review. That should give me an advantage when it comes to maintaining the house and more than 50% custody, if divorce is the path we take. I've filled out most of the legal paperwork as a precaution and to be prepared in case she actually does file herself, but I still consider that an absolute last resort.
> 
> I don't recall who mentioned it, but my crazed wife definitely feels that her loved ones (and me) telling her she is making a huge mistake only drives her closer to the other guy. He understands her. Yada, yada, yada. Since he is the only one telling her this a great choice, she eats up every word he says. It's such a fantasy world, I don't know how she doesn't recognize that.
> 
> I do agree and truly believe that at some point, she's going to realize her selfish choices have hurt more than just me (our kids, our families, our friends) and she'll come around, but I don't know how much longer I can withstand the torture her continued betrayal and vicious comments cause. This fog is such a powerful force and I can't figure out how to make her hit rock bottom if she refuses to move out of the house (guess we're both stubborn with that). She has her cake and she's eating it too. I realize that. I just don't want to leave the house that I've shared and maintained with her and the kids for the past 17 years, and per both our lawyers, we're both entitled to stay.
> 
> I'm going to do my best to hold out a little while longer, if at all possible, but I struggle so much when I know she is leaving to see him or when she doesn't come home from shopping for several hours and I know she's been with him somewhere. I'm really interested in knowing if anyone has any strategies or thoughts on what to say to her as she's leaving or when she returns from these escapades. I want her to feel guilty and remorseful for leaving both me and the kids for very selfish reasons, but she never seems to feel even a flicker of guilt.


Above all, I am a businessman, so I'll be blunt. Your attorney is directing you only in one direction, and that is divorce. I don't understand why your replies indicate that you want to save this marriage, then. If you want to save it, it just doesn't seem like the divorce path makes sense.

I'll add that the other business people reading this will agree that I'm somewhat butchering the westinghouse studies we all covered in our business training, but I'm trying to make a point. Hope it helps.

First, your wife has no source of income other than you. It sounds like a nice standard of living. So, she is very far away from our most primal "needs". Needs drive us in very practical ways. "Wants" is the zone that she is flourishing in right now. There is very little motivation for change for your marriage security in the 'wants' zone. Sorry, but its true. People on this site call it cake eating. You are meeting her needs, and there is no apparent risk of this ending, based on your behavior. Why in the world would she 'want' anything to change? She's got to 'need' the situation to change before it will change.

Cut off her access to your money, and you've just dropped her into an ice water bath of primal 'needs'. If you want to make the divorce attorney happy, keep a spreadsheet of every dollar transaction you make. Print out statements of your accounts. Tell her that she can have cash money for a very specific list of bread, beef, potatoes, clothes or whatever the kids need. Its preferable if you just buy this yourself, and cut her off. You'll add enough gas to her car to get them to school, but no more. Her gravy train is over.

As a child, I was very poor. Its incredible how we get such clarity of thoughts when we enter the 'need' zone. What choices are open to her now? If she wants to declare it to be unfair, she can ask for a divorce ... wait ... don't those cost money?

I'm really not advocating making her do without her basic needs, like food and clothes. Just making a point that it takes a bleak picture to change a person's thinking. She doesn't have to take the kids to practice. Doesn't have to go shopping, or have cable TV, or access to the internet. She doesn't have to have a cell phone. These are not needs, and there are plenty of short term sacrifices you can make to try to save the marriage.


----------



## aug

Make sure to ask for receipts. No receipts, no reimbursements. 

File those receipts away.


----------



## Almostrecovered

lordmayhem said:


> What is it with these SAHMs that makes them so vulnerable to affairs? Is it just plain boredom?


I think
It's selective memory, we see lots of work affairs too
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tacoma

ReasonableMan said:


> Entropy3000--I respectfully disagree. There are many ways for a man to be strong for his family. If she's otherwise been a good wife and they've got many years together, then strength can mean working to protect that. At the same time, those who retreat and surrender to divorce may be the ones who have been powerless.


I seriously disagree.

The serious threat of divorce in this case isn`t a "retreat" or "surrender"it`s a full frontal nuclear assault.
It`s no holds barred brawling that lets the spouse who is blatantly disrespecting and hurting you that you`re not ****ing around.
It`s a great show of strength and an absolute refusal to accept the abuse.

It more often than not lifts the delusion the WS is in so that the BS can get them back in the marriage.

It is also to my mind the ONLY weapon left to the BS whose WS is frolicking around in public with their lover letting the world know they have no respect or love or care for their marriage and family.

If it doesn`t succeed in bringing the WS back to the marriage it will succeed in getting them out of your life which is the only place for them if they continue with their affair anyway.

It`s a win/win for everyone



> Neither is right nor wrong, but just show the different options a person has when dealing with such a situation.


Perhaps neither is right or wrong but one generally has an objectively better chance of success considering.
Quite honestly "right and wrong" goes out the window for me when confronted with someone who is obviously "wronging" me.
Don`t break the rules and then expect those who were affected by your rule breaking to continue to handicap themselves with the rules you ignored.



> Those who come on this forum and demand others act as they would are often those who were themselves truly the passive and powerless ones in their relationships. Not everyone uses the same methods as everyone else. I simply want to suggest another option.


I only suggest the options that have a reasonable chance of gaining the desired results.
Options that have me continuing to be cuckolded for the duration of my marriage aren`t really options at all.


----------



## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> What is it with these SAHMs that makes them so vulnerable to affairs? Is it just plain boredom?


I think boredom and too much opportunity to dwell on things.

Once the children reach school age their role changes dramatically.

They see their husbands always being busy and not having time for them so they look for attention elsewhere. Sure affairs can happen in the work place but having a reason for being is good for all of us. Otherwise we look for meaning in someone elses eyes. If hubby is not there, it leaves a woman vulnerable. No exzcue but a fact of life.

So for someone in this situation who gets friended on FB by a past HS or College BF it seems innocent to them to relive those simpler days where she had less responsibility ans was free to have her fun. Or they go to the gym and get some guy as their personal trainer. Maybe a tennis or golf instructor. Going to school is good but now she is in the middle of folks who are very much on the market for some unattached sex. Pro marriage GFs are good but toxic ones are not. This is when they may want to start going out on not so marriage friendly GNOs or as a soccer mom meets some lonely dad. And so on. Too much time. Too much boredom which turns into resentment for their SO. Just a very risky situation.

My wife is way past being a SAHM but a few years back she was out of work and said she was ready to stop working. LOL. This was bad for her mentally. So I told her that for her own mental health she needs to work a few days a week. So now she works two days a week and has creative project she can do on her off days that relates to her work days. This is all good for her .... and me.


----------



## Entropy3000

Halien said:


> Above all, I am a businessman, so I'll be blunt. Your attorney is directing you only in one direction, and that is divorce. I don't understand why your replies indicate that you want to save this marriage, then. If you want to save it, it just doesn't seem like the divorce path makes sense.
> 
> I'll add that the other business people reading this will agree that I'm somewhat butchering the westinghouse studies we all covered in our business training, but I'm trying to make a point. Hope it helps.
> 
> First, your wife has no source of income other than you. It sounds like a nice standard of living. So, she is very far away from our most primal "needs". Needs drive us in very practical ways. "Wants" is the zone that she is flourishing in right now. There is very little motivation for change for your marriage security in the 'wants' zone. Sorry, but its true. People on this site call it cake eating. You are meeting her needs, and there is no apparent risk of this ending, based on your behavior. Why in the world would she 'want' anything to change? She's got to 'need' the situation to change before it will change.
> 
> *Cut off her access to your money, and you've just dropped her into an ice water bath of primal 'needs'. * If you want to make the divorce attorney happy, keep a spreadsheet of every dollar transaction you make. Print out statements of your accounts. Tell her that she can have cash money for a very specific list of bread, beef, potatoes, clothes or whatever the kids need. Its preferable if you just buy this yourself, and cut her off. You'll add enough gas to her car to get them to school, but no more. Her gravy train is over.
> 
> As a child, I was very poor. Its incredible how we get such clarity of thoughts when we enter the 'need' zone. What choices are open to her now? If she wants to declare it to be unfair, she can ask for a divorce ... wait ... don't those cost money?
> 
> I'm really not advocating making her do without her basic needs, like food and clothes. Just making a point that it takes a bleak picture to change a person's thinking. She doesn't have to take the kids to practice. Doesn't have to go shopping, or have cable TV, or access to the internet. She doesn't have to have a cell phone. These are not needs, and there are plenty of short term sacrifices you can make to try to save the marriage.


From a business perspective we are talking about playing hardball. In any negotiation one has to understand the bottom line. When it is better to walk away from the table. If you cannot aford to walk away from a client and they know it you have little grounds to negotiate. You endlessly cater and give into them. Bad business. So you want to primarily work with them as a partner, but they have to understand that in any endeavor it takes two parties to make things work. 

In this case she is working with another vendor already breaking the contract you thought you had in place. So breach of contract situation. In that case with a client you can sweeten the pot to a point but it is disengenuous for the client to continually play one against the other when there is already an agreement with you. So one has to be firm about the aggreement at some point and back off free support so the client can see what they are missing.

So I agree, he needs to stop meeting her needs. The OM is doing no heavy lefting. He is just enjoying having an affair with her while the husband is still meeting her other needs. This has to stop. I totally agree with you.


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## Entropy3000

Almostrecovered said:


> I think
> It's selective memory, we see lots of work affairs too
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Work affairs are common too no doubt. But I am coming to the conclusion that a SAHM with children in school is in gernarl more of an issue. At work, at least there is the fact that she shopuld be busy doing something to keep her job. But in a quiet home and being all alone ... Well that is a lonely place and the mind wanders when not engaged.

My EA was at work .....


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## hurthusb

LoveCloud - I'm afraid that I have to agree with a lot of people here. I'm in a situation that has some parallels with yours, but there are differences too. 

When I first read about the 180 I thought it was about getting her back, and I treated it as such. Massive failure.

But when I got into therapy and my therapist told me to quit trying to save my wife and protect her, that I had to save myself and protect myself, a light bulb finally went on. I really and truly found acceptance and started to move on. My wife accused me of being passive-aggressive, she claimed I was treating her badly, all kinds of stuff. I wouldn't engage, wouldn't react - not because I was trying to get her back, just because I was trying to be strong.

Guess what's happening. In the last couple of days she's begun to signal that she's feeling conflicted over what to do. She's really beginning to stress out. We went to a joint counseling session. I originally thought I'd use it to show her the error of her ways. Instead, the subject was how and when to tell the kids we were getting a legal separation and how to manage the money. She started trying to process all the problems in our marriage, she started to cry. I got us back on track. We're going one more time this weekend to finish the tasks in front of us, then I'm stopping the joint sessions. I have no interest in going over the past. I want to move forward. If she wants to agonize over the past, she can go to therapy herself. But I refuse to engage in any "marriage counseling" until she goes NC and transparent. Then we'll see where I'm at. Because you know what? I've let go, I feel better than I've felt in years. 

And if this doesn't happen pretty soon, I'm pretty sure I won't even want to go back there. She told me a couple weeks ago that there was no chance of reconciliation. now she's talking about being torn. And I'm the one really not interested.

So forget getting her back. Accept that your marriage is over, start legal proceedings, don't get caught up in the secrecy. You don't have to be a **** about it. Just protect yourself. Get therapy. Watch yourself for signs of depression or anxiety. FORGET getting evidence - you know it's happening, MOVE ON. Most states, adultery just doesn't matter. Unless you can prove shes an unfit mother - and sex in a car with an unemployed man has nothing to do with if she's a good mother - then the best you can hope for is shared custody.

Oh, and don't have sex with her, even if she offers. You need to disengage emotionally, sexually, financially from her.


----------



## AFEH

hurthusb said:


> LoveCloud - I'm afraid that I have to agree with a lot of people here. I'm in a situation that has some parallels with yours, but there are differences too.
> 
> When I first read about the 180 I thought it was about getting her back, and I treated it as such. Massive failure.
> 
> But when I got into therapy and my therapist told me to quit trying to save my wife and protect her, that I had to save myself and protect myself, a light bulb finally went on. I really and truly found acceptance and started to move on. My wife accused me of being passive-aggressive, she claimed I was treating her badly, all kinds of stuff. I wouldn't engage, wouldn't react - not because I was trying to get her back, just because I was trying to be strong.
> 
> Guess what's happening. In the last couple of days she's begun to signal that she's feeling conflicted over what to do. She's really beginning to stress out. We went to a joint counseling session. I originally thought I'd use it to show her the error of her ways. Instead, the subject was how and when to tell the kids we were getting a legal separation and how to manage the money. She started trying to process all the problems in our marriage, she started to cry. I got us back on track. We're going one more time this weekend to finish the tasks in front of us, then I'm stopping the joint sessions. I have no interest in going over the past. I want to move forward. If she wants to agonize over the past, she can go to therapy herself. But I refuse to engage in any "marriage counseling" until she goes NC and transparent. Then we'll see where I'm at. Because you know what? I've let go, I feel better than I've felt in years.
> 
> And if this doesn't happen pretty soon, I'm pretty sure I won't even want to go back there. She told me a couple weeks ago that there was no chance of reconciliation. now she's talking about being torn. And I'm the one really not interested.
> 
> So forget getting her back. Accept that your marriage is over, start legal proceedings, don't get caught up in the secrecy. You don't have to be a **** about it. Just protect yourself. Get therapy. Watch yourself for signs of depression or anxiety. FORGET getting evidence - you know it's happening, MOVE ON. Most states, adultery just doesn't matter. Unless you can prove shes an unfit mother - and sex in a car with an unemployed man has nothing to do with if she's a good mother - then the best you can hope for is shared custody.
> 
> Oh, and don't have sex with her, even if she offers. You need to disengage emotionally, sexually, financially from her.


Well done. Very well done. I do know where you are in your life.


----------



## Entropy3000

hurthusb said:


> LoveCloud - I'm afraid that I have to agree with a lot of people here. I'm in a situation that has some parallels with yours, but there are differences too.
> 
> When I first read about the 180 I thought it was about getting her back, and I treated it as such. Massive failure.
> 
> But when I got into therapy and my therapist told me to quit trying to save my wife and protect her, that I had to save myself and protect myself, a light bulb finally went on. I really and truly found acceptance and started to move on. My wife accused me of being passive-aggressive, she claimed I was treating her badly, all kinds of stuff. I wouldn't engage, wouldn't react - not because I was trying to get her back, just because I was trying to be strong.
> 
> Guess what's happening. In the last couple of days she's begun to signal that she's feeling conflicted over what to do. She's really beginning to stress out. We went to a joint counseling session. I originally thought I'd use it to show her the error of her ways. Instead, the subject was how and when to tell the kids we were getting a legal separation and how to manage the money. She started trying to process all the problems in our marriage, she started to cry. I got us back on track. We're going one more time this weekend to finish the tasks in front of us, then I'm stopping the joint sessions. I have no interest in going over the past. I want to move forward. If she wants to agonize over the past, she can go to therapy herself. But I refuse to engage in any "marriage counseling" until she goes NC and transparent. Then we'll see where I'm at. Because you know what? I've let go, I feel better than I've felt in years.
> 
> And if this doesn't happen pretty soon, I'm pretty sure I won't even want to go back there. She told me a couple weeks ago that there was no chance of reconciliation. now she's talking about being torn. And I'm the one really not interested.
> 
> So forget getting her back. Accept that your marriage is over, start legal proceedings, don't get caught up in the secrecy. You don't have to be a **** about it. Just protect yourself. Get therapy. Watch yourself for signs of depression or anxiety. FORGET getting evidence - you know it's happening, MOVE ON. Most states, adultery just doesn't matter. Unless you can prove shes an unfit mother - and sex in a car with an unemployed man has nothing to do with if she's a good mother - then the best you can hope for is shared custody.
> 
> Oh, and don't have sex with her, even if she offers. You need to disengage emotionally, sexually, financially from her.


Good stuff. It has the added advantage of you looking stronger as well. So you come off as being a strong attractive man. But it is about being a strong attractive man period, who has a life in front of him. Sometimes this is enough to swing them but it is not the reason alone for doing it. Certainly being a doormat is just lose-lose.


----------



## turnera

Why, again, can't you cancel her credit card?


----------



## turnera

LoveCloud said:


> I'm going to start the hard 180 this morning and see where that leads. I've done the ignoring before (with the exception of kid related stuff), but only for a couple days in a row and it definitely does affect her. She's thrown it back in my face as me not wanted to save this marriage and this family even though I consistently tell her that's my goal.


That's fogbabble used to control you. Be smarter than her. Every time she throws anything in your face just look her in the eyes and say "I'M not the cheater here." And walk away. Keep using the words every chance you get. If you have to get more into it, just say "I will never share my wife with another man; that's why I'm divorcing you."

The ONLY way she will EVER stop cheating is if you show her you WILL WALK AWAY if she doesn't stop. You can love her, you can want her, but to ACCEPT her cheating makes you lower than a doormat. And women cannot love a doormat.


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> Why, again, can't you cancel her credit card?


I don't think there is a legal requirement for a husband to share a credit card with his wife.
It is plausible that she can say that when she started cheating he closed down the creidt card. So what? Stop enabling her. Even if it cost you money would that be worse than what she is doing to you now?


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## turnera

You can set up a prepaid amount at the local grocery store. You can pay all the bills. You can fill the car with gas. You can give her one of those phones that only works in emergencies. And then you can stop giving her access to any money - tell her you have shut down all accounts to BOTH of you until the divorce is final. 

Stop paying for her to cheat.


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## tacoma

turnera said:


> Why, again, can't you cancel her credit card?


Credit card companies will go to ANY lengths to keep from canceling a card.
It often takes the threat of litigation to do so.

I was told by a CC company I couldn`t cancel mine because it had recurring charges being taken off of it monthly.

They flat out refused to cancel it until my lawyer sent them a nice letter.


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## turnera

My cards let me cancel them even if I owe them a ton of money. Every year when they charge a fee, they say you can cancel the card.


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## sadcalifornian

There is nothing I can add here as you got a ton of excellent advices already. But, I will try. 

The bottom line is you must take a hard action. It is not even to wake her up, but to protect yourself and move on. If she wakes up in due time to crawl back to you, that would be her choice. 

See, the expected route in a case like this is pretty simple. A wife cheats, get found out, refuse to end it, and H files for D and moves on. That pretty much sums it up. Things get complicated when the betrayed spouse refuse to move on and hang on to the M when the situation says there is no M anymore; it's just paperwork at this point. She has already divorced you in her mind, despite what she says.

If God has plan to keep you two together as family, she will find her way back. But, as far as you are concerned, you should do what you are supposed to do. If you let yourself stay in this limbo state, nothing gets done. You are not really helping anybody with your inaction or lack of action. Just move on. While at it, you can look behind if she is still staying with OM or chasing after you crying and begging. You do your part, and she gets to decide what she wants to do. If you don't make your move, she won't make her move either. You must force her to make the decision whether to choose OM or you and your family. 

Another poster mentioned "needs" vs. "wants". "Needs" always take precedence over "wants". Your W being SAHM and OM being financially inferior makes your position very strong in this, if you play your cards right. Unfortunately, to play the cards right in this case would be hard 180 or filing for D. Between the two, I personally think D would be the better choice. But, then again who knows? Since she did respond rather acutely to your past attempts at 180, you may invoke the kind of response you hope by applying a really really hard "180" here. 

Remember, there is analogy of fog in a pot. When a fog is thrown in a boiling pot, it will jump out in a blink of second. But, if you put a fog in a cold water and heat the pot gradually the fog stays in the pot to its ultimate death. Any tactic you use to wake up the WW must be done with a greatest shock value you can achieve. You have to be ruthless and meaning business. Any half-hearted action will be sensed and called bluff. 

Realize this W of yours is not your W anymore. She is OM's wife. It does not matter what the paper says. She has chosen him. She just does not want to lose the status quo and the financial support she gets from you. At this point, you are not her H anymore and just a paycheck to her.


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## Chaparral

At this point the only reason she's hanging around is for the POSOM to get a job and carry her away. You need to stop the gravey train before this happens or she will not have to face the consequences of being dumped by you. You have a lot better chance of ending this now rather than later.

In regard to your kids, they need to know it is their mother who has destroyed their family.... before she turns them against you. I have seen them do this and worse.

Good luck, Use some of the money you aren't giving her now and go treat yourself and the kids. Do as much fun stuff with kids and without her as possible. Go to the gym and start working out. Nothing except meds (see doctor) will help as much. Let her see how well you can get along without her.


----------



## F-102

I think this may be a case of: The best way to convince your W of what she stands to really lose-is to go ahead and let her lose it.


----------



## Jellybeans

hurthusb said:


> But when I got into therapy and my therapist told me to quit trying to save my wife and protect her, that I had to save myself and protect myself, a light bulb finally went on. I really and truly found acceptance and started to move on.
> 
> I refuse to engage in any "marriage counseling" until she goes NC and transparent. Then we'll see where I'm at. Because you know what? I've let go, I feel better than I've felt in years.
> 
> She told me a couple weeks ago that there was no chance of reconciliation. now she's talking about being torn. And I'm the one really not interested.
> 
> So forget getting her back. Accept that your marriage is over, start legal proceedings, don't get caught up in the secrecy. You don't have to be a **** about it. Just protect yourself. Get therapy. Watch yourself for signs of depression or anxiety. FORGET getting evidence - you know it's happening, MOVE ON.
> 
> Oh, and don't have sex with her, even if she offers. You need to disengage emotionally, sexually, financially from her.


Ding ding ding!



sadcalifornian said:


> The bottom line is you must take a hard action. It is not even to wake her up, but to protect yourself and move on. If she wakes up in due time to crawl back to you, that would be her choice.
> 
> *See, the expected route in a case like this is pretty simple. A wife cheats, get found out, refuse to end it, and H files for D and moves on. That pretty much sums it up. Things get complicated when the betrayed spouse refuse to move on and hang on to the M when the situation says there is no M anymore; it's just paperwork at this point. She has already divorced you in her mind, despite what she says.*
> 
> *If you let yourself stay in this limbo state, nothing gets done. * You are not really helping anybody with your inaction or lack of action. Just move on.
> 
> You must force her to make the decision whether to choose OM or you and your family.
> 
> Any tactic you use to wake up the WW must be done with a greatest shock value you can achieve. Any half-hearted action will be sensed and called bluff.
> 
> Realize this W of yours is not your W anymore. She is OM's wife. It does not matter what the paper says. She has chosen him.



A really really really excellent post!!!! And so true! Every left behind spouse and/or betrayed spouse needs to print out that post and put in on their mirror, read it every day til it sinks in for them.

It all comes down to this: if they won't work WITH you for the marriage, then they are working AGAINST you & the marriage.


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## lordmayhem

His last log in was on Oct 20 at 1 pm. I wonder if he'll be back.


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## Initfortheduration

Listen to hurthusb!!!! I can guarantee you that if you continue in the path you are going, you will only succeed in her feeling contempt for a cuckold husband with no self respect. FIRST OFF. This is the computer generation. You take her cards away and make her right out a list AND YOU BUY THE DAMN GROCERIES ON LINE. You give her no money. NONE. You are not denying her anything, you are only insuring that she is not supporting her POSOM. Expose to everyone. Let all your friends off the hook, tell them that its not their fault that your wife is cheating on you. You need to learn the 180. And use it.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

lordmayhem said:


> His last log in was on Oct 20 at 1 pm. I wonder if he'll be back.


Nope. Not for awhile. 

The truth is brutal. Not ready for reality quite yet. He needs more pain first. Doubt denial will hold up much longer. 

The truck is baring down on him...


----------



## gonefishin

Lovecloud

You need to deal with reality. She has no respect for you, your children, no one period.

Stop supporting this activity by doing nothing.

Your have recieved great suggestions on your post, use them. File for divorce, try to get her out of the house. Once this is accomplished you have a platform to work from.


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## LoveCloud

Thanks everyone. I'm reading and taking this all to heart and thinking constantly, talking to friends, and talking to a therapist. Many of your suggestions and sentiments are echoed there as well. I'm building up the courage to file... just not quite there yet. Keep thinking about what I'm losing. Need to focus on what I could possibly gain now. Thanks again for the strong support.


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## SadSamIAm

What you are losing by not filing is the respect of your wife. 

You need to show her that you value yourself and that you won't put up with her having an affair.

File and she will she that you are serious and what she is losing. Make sure she knows that you want her, but you won't tolerate the affair. 

You will either get back your wife or you will loser a cheater. Either way, you will win.


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## turnera

SadSamIAm said:


> What you are losing by not filing is the respect of your wife.


Why would she want you if you won't even fight for yourself?

Very sad to see.


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## turnera

Look. After helping hundreds and hundreds of men whose wives cheated on them, I've developed a sort of set of statistics. Of the marriages saved, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them involved the man WALKING AWAY from the cheating wife until she gave up her lover.

Every single one.

Go ahead and try to defy statistics. You're just prolonging your divorce.


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

turnera said:


> Look. After helping hundreds and hundreds of men whose wives cheated on them, I've developed a sort of set of statistics. Of the marriages saved, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them involved the man WALKING AWAY from the cheating wife until she gave up her lover.
> 
> Every single one.
> 
> Go ahead and try to defy statistics. You're just prolonging your divorce.


Quite right!

Stop thinking about what you might be losing because honestly, you have already lost it.

You cannot control your wife and she will continue to go down this road until she is faced with the "reality" that you will not support her.


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## lordmayhem

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> The truth is brutal. Not ready for reality quite yet. He needs more pain first. Doubt denial will hold up much longer.
> 
> The truck is baring down on him...


You're right. And the truck is nearing.....


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## gonefishin

Lovecloud

Do not think about "losing" Think about gaining your sanity back. Your wife is the one who is losing.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Stop thinking about what you might be losing because honestly, you have already lost it.


*Ding *Ding *Ding.

There is nothing left to lose.

Your shopping for insurance on a car that's already totalled.


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## bryanp

Nobody and I mean nobody respects a doormat. Your wife is screwing her lover virtually in front of your face and you do nothing. Why should she respect you? If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so passive as you have been? She clearly has no respect for you at all. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Onedery

When does this guy get out of the hospital where you put him? As far as you ***** wife goes, you would be better off getting away from her even if it costs you everything you have provided her.
There's no way she can keep you from your kids, providing that you are indeed their father.
Been there and know what I'm talking about.


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## PHTlump




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## Mike188

If I had it to do over again I would have kicked mine out two years ago when the BS first started.


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## Entropy3000

PHTlump said:


>


This is beyond awesome.


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## tacoma

turnera said:


> Look. After helping hundreds and hundreds of men whose wives cheated on them, I've developed a sort of set of statistics. Of the marriages saved, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them involved the man WALKING AWAY from the cheating wife until she gave up her lover.
> 
> Every single one.
> 
> Go ahead and try to defy statistics. You're just prolonging your divorce.


This is something I`ve noticed as well.


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## LoveCloud

Quick update... I started divorce proceedings this morning. Not how I wanted this saga to end, but I'm prepared. Thanks everyone.


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## Arnold

tacoma said:


> This is something I`ve noticed as well.


I agree. Never seen a case of reconciling without the betrayed going hardass. Good that you filed.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

There you go! Good job!


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## Eli-Zor

Do yourself a favour and save someone elses marriage , let some of the parents know he is a preditor looking to seduce married women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel

There's walking away, and there's hard a*s. Not always the same thing. I didn't walk away, but I did lay down the law. Told her my conditions for staying married, but continued to show love to her and commit to our marriage. I think the more correct statistic is that 100% of the men in this situation take a stand, not necessarily walk away.


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## turnera

eli-zor said:


> do yourself a favour and save someone elses marriage , let some of the parents know he is a preditor looking to seduce married women.
> _posted via mobile device_


i so agree.


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## sadcalifornian

LoveCloud said:


> Quick update... I started divorce proceedings this morning. Not how I wanted this saga to end, but I'm prepared. Thanks everyone.


Good for you. It's about time. If she indeed wakes up from her fog, she should be crawling back to you. If not, just move on. She is a lost cause.


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## Shaggy

It's been a day, how has she reacted to your new spine?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

She's probably soooooo pi**ed off right now....


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## SadSamIAm

I bet she told the OM that her husband asked for a divorce and so she is now FREE. Then the OM, probably told her that he wants to take things slow. He is probably trying to figure out how he can continue to have sex with her without a real relationship. Or he has just broken up with her and moved on.


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## turnera

Update please!


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## AB1

LoveCloud said:


> Quick update... I started divorce proceedings this morning. Not how I wanted this saga to end, but I'm prepared. Thanks everyone.


Glad to see you took action. 

I have been reading this for a while...curious what is happening. Please update.


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## Dadof3

yea - i'm hooked on the drama. keep it coming!


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## 4821

I am so sorry for your pain.


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## 4821

cheatinghubby said:


> Never use the word hide, if the spouse ever finds the site and figures out his screen name, a quick printout could spell doom for the OP. Never hide assets and cash, protect it from her spending the crap out of it. Once spent, she doesn't have to repay it if it's spent on non-tangible assets, hair/nails, lunch, dinners, motel rooms etc.
> 
> She'll probably get 1/2 of it anyways but at least you'll still have that 1/2 she probably would have pissed away to feed her affair.
> 
> Now if you want to help your sister/brother/parents put up a new roof/tile/bathroom/kitchen because they're short on cash then you can give them the money, remember give not loan. And keep it under $10k so it's a gift only and they won't have to pay taxes on it.



any amount under $500 on the credit card will be the OP's financial responsibility if the credit card is in his name. He will not be able to get money back from those charges that are under $500


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## 4821

LoveCloud said:


> I appreciate all the input, especially how quickly everyone has jumped in with opinions and suggestions to my dire life situation which, unfortunately, doesn't seem that different from most others. It's sad how consistently these stories follow the same script as the wayward wife allows herself to stay mired in the fog regardless of how many loved ones tell them they are acting differently and are not thinking rationally. Affection and adoration are strong drugs and tough to overcome in this situation.
> 
> To answer and clarify a few of the additional questions that have been asked...
> 
> All three of our kids are in school during the day so my wife does have free time on her hands, unfortunately. She is looking for a job but since she has been at home for the past 15 years, her experience is limited. She was previously an elementary school teacher so she is capable, but the job market is tight, and in my opinion, her mental acuity just isn't what it used to be (stupid wayward wife).
> 
> Our children (14, 11, and 6) don't know exactly what is happening, but they know that their mother sleeps on the sofa and isn't always home to put them in bed. Our 14 year old daughter has asked me several times if we were getting a divorce, and I've answered that I don't want that to happen and that her mother and I are working on some issues. The two younger boys are fairly oblivious and don't seem too concerned at all yet. They are all my biggest concern through all this though. She believes that the kids are young and resilient so while they may have an adjustment period, they'll be fine in the long run. She may be right, but I know that if we can develop a happy relationship together again, the kids would be even better.
> 
> I've been instructed by my attorney to not move money around at this point so if this does head towards divorce, her attorney won't be able to say I hid or redistributed money. That would make me look like I was trying to deceive her and the courts don't look favorably on that. My attorney suggests staying on the up and up, as this will give me a significant advantage especially given her continued unacceptable activities, which I log daily... it's a horrible list to review. That should give me an advantage when it comes to maintaining the house and more than 50% custody, if divorce is the path we take. I've filled out most of the legal paperwork as a precaution and to be prepared in case she actually does file herself, but I still consider that an absolute last resort.
> 
> I don't recall who mentioned it, but my crazed wife definitely feels that her loved ones (and me) telling her she is making a huge mistake only drives her closer to the other guy. He understands her. Yada, yada, yada. Since he is the only one telling her this a great choice, she eats up every word he says. It's such a fantasy world, I don't know how she doesn't recognize that.
> 
> I do agree and truly believe that at some point, she's going to realize her selfish choices have hurt more than just me (our kids, our families, our friends) and she'll come around, but I don't know how much longer I can withstand the torture her continued betrayal and vicious comments cause. This fog is such a powerful force and I can't figure out how to make her hit rock bottom if she refuses to move out of the house (guess we're both stubborn with that). She has her cake and she's eating it too. I realize that. I just don't want to leave the house that I've shared and maintained with her and the kids for the past 17 years, and per both our lawyers, we're both entitled to stay.
> 
> I'm going to do my best to hold out a little while longer, if at all possible, but I struggle so much when I know she is leaving to see him or when she doesn't come home from shopping for several hours and I know she's been with him somewhere. I'm really interested in knowing if anyone has any strategies or thoughts on what to say to her as she's leaving or when she returns from these escapades. I want her to feel guilty and remorseful for leaving both me and the kids for very selfish reasons, but she never seems to feel even a flicker of guilt.


Your wife knows you well and knows that you are not the type of person to get a divorce. She even suggested getting a divorce according to your post. Is there something in this relationship with your wife that you have not told us that makes you want to stay with her? 

She and her unemployed lover have all day together to play. She is not looking for a job. She is having sex daily with this guy. 

Wake up - hello - you have kids and you also think they do not know what is going on? They know. 

Please get legal advice, file for seperation and present her with papers when she RETURNS from being with her lover. 

She could go undercover and continue all of this and fake a reconciliation with you. Since you have caught her and she has not stopped - I have to sadly say that she no longer cares what you think, and no longer loves you except for the money to finance her affair.

I am a female and giving you the female prospective. There may have been a lot of things she told you that you didn't hear. Now she is making it loud and clear. You make it loud and clear back. Her reaction will give you a ton of information about what she wants.

I feel your pain.


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## shadwe11

turnera said:


> Look. After helping hundreds and hundreds of men whose wives cheated on them, I've developed a sort of set of statistics. Of the marriages saved, EVERY SINGLE ONE of them involved the man WALKING AWAY from the cheating wife until she gave up her lover.
> 
> Every single one.
> 
> Go ahead and try to defy statistics. You're just prolonging your divorce.


Is that really completely true?

I found out on Wednesday last week, but I knew there was something going on in my heart but could not find any evidence she was using friends to arrange night and days out to meet with him, I really didn't think she had it in her.

I'm into IT so I decided to start a proper campaign of investigation it only took me a few days to get all the evidence I need, I love my wife I think but she says hes like a drug and can't stop, this is crushingly devastating as she says she loves me but is carrying on even though she knows it is breaking my heart. I can't type anymore...I don't seem to be able to be angry....


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## Sindo

shadwe11 said:


> Is that really completely true?
> 
> I found out on Wednesday last week, but I knew there was something going on in my heart but could not find any evidence she was using friends to arrange night and days out to meet with him, I really didn't think she had it in her.
> 
> I'm into IT so I decided to start a proper campaign of investigation it only took me a few days to get all the evidence I need, I love my wife I think but she says hes like a drug and can't stop, this is crushingly devastating as she says she loves me but is carrying on even though she knows it is breaking my heart. I can't type anymore...I don't seem to be able to be angry....


It certainly helps, but it would take a lot more than that. 

You may want to start your own thread to get better advice more specific to you.


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## shadwe11

I think I will, I'm in the UK so not sure if there are many on here from here.


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## lordmayhem

shadwe11 said:


> I think I will, I'm in the UK so not sure if there are many on here from here.


Irrelevant. There are plenty from the UK here. One of our regulars, Numb Badger is from the UK. Infidelity is infidelity, no matter what country you're from.


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## turnera

shadwe11 said:


> Is that really completely true?
> 
> I found out on Wednesday last week, but I knew there was something going on in my heart but could not find any evidence she was using friends to arrange night and days out to meet with him, I really didn't think she had it in her.
> 
> I'm into IT so I decided to start a proper campaign of investigation it only took me a few days to get all the evidence I need, I love my wife I think but she says hes like a drug and can't stop, this is crushingly devastating as she says she loves me but is carrying on even though she knows it is breaking my heart. I can't type anymore...I don't seem to be able to be angry....


Shadwell, here's another piece of psychology for you. Dating back to caveman days - it's in our genes - women have to respect their man. Back then, if the man wasn't deserving of respect, he got eaten. So she chose the strong man, the decisive man, the aggressive man - the Alpha man.

Any husband who will LET his wife keep boinking another guy, just to get to keep her at home...instantly loses whatever respect she had left for him and it's now only a matter of time before she leaves you anyway.

You don't have your wife right now. She may be physically in your home, but if you don't take a stand, you are worthless to her. Find your cajones and take a stand - him or me. THAT, she will hear.


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## Almostrecovered

LoveCloud-
Last Activity: 11-09-2011 03:37 PM


wonder what's happened?


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## Dexter Morgan

LoveCloud said:


> I have met with a lawyer and he's informed me that I can't kick her out, I can't change the locks, I have to maintain status quo (although I don't have to pay for hotel rooms or lunch for her boyfriend, but it's tough to stop those particular charges on the credit card if she's allowed to use it for day-to-day stuff as usual).


You cancel all credit cards. It sucks, I know. She is a cheating wh0re, and you will end up getting to become an every other weekend dad, and pay that s!ut child support.

So she gets to cheat on you and come out of it smelling like a rose, and you get the shaft. Nice huh. 

But one thing you can do is know that she is only entitled to half the marital assets and child support. Nothing more. The only way she will get more is if you agree to it just to get things over and done. Do NOT do that. You have your lawyer hold firm on everything. Do NOT let her have more than she is entitled to.

And you could fight for custody, but unfortunately, being a cheating dirtbag isn't reason enough to get custody. Unless she is abusing the kids, neglecting them, or she is a criminal or drug abuser, she WILL get custody. She is the mother. Fathers get screwed. 

So unless your attorney thinks you have a better chance than not of getting custody, don't waste your efforts there.




> It's beyond frustrating though that she can have her cake and can eat it too. I've tried outright ignoring her; she gets pissed at me and claims I have no respect for her.


Uh, she is a cheater. She doesn't deserve respect. 




> I've tried pouring out my heart, but she says that there is no way I should love her after what's she's done and she could never love me after that.


She is right. I was the same slobbering all over the wife mess that you are. Your desperation soon gets replaced with anger. And you may be wanting to pour your heart out now, but you will feel like calling her all the names she is worthy of later.

Trust me, you will never trust her again, and you would live a life of suspicion with a sorry excuse for a woman like this.
There IS a better life out there for you. And when you are out in the dating world again, you'll feel silly for wasting your tears on her in the first place.




> In fact, she says she has no love for me now at all, only hatred


Then why does the dumb airhead care if you ignore her or not?




> and that the only thing I have over her boyfriend is money and a job.


Ignore her. Tell her anything she has to say to you can be done through the attorneys. Do NOT talk to her from this point out. Let your attorney handle business for you.




> Anyone had any success with 180 or any other strategy when their spouse was so filled with hatred as soon as their affair was exposed?


Why would you want a 180 from a woman like this?




> I still do love her


*sigh* Oh man. One of your buddies needs to take you out for a beer and give you the V8 slap upside the head to get you to man up. Better yet, a buddy of yours needs to take you out and get you laid. Cuz if he does that, you will be all over getting rid of that huss of a wife of yours.




> I think my family deserves that I make every possible attempt at salvaging something that I cherished so much before giving up.


Your family deserved a mother that kept her legs closed to another man.

But my man, you do what you want. I can guarantee you if for some reason you get her to stop the affair and stay, you will be happy with that for a while. Until you start thinking clearly and the resentment starts building. Because how could one NOT have resentment for an obvious unscrupulous disrespectful woman like this?


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## Dadof3

Methinks LoveCloud evaporated on 11/2/11. Doesn't look like he'll be coming back. He filed for divorce and thanked us all for our time. No more LoveCloud.

Would be nice to have an update, if he for whatever reason made it back here.


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## dynamik

LoveCloud said:


> It's been two months since I discovered her batphone and all the risque and graphic texts and photos and conversations and life shattering information it contained. I was devastated that day and continue to be more devastated each passing moment. It was with a guy that she has known for years and whose son I have coached for years, alongside my son in baseball. I have to see this loser (lost his house and wife recently, and now lives at home with his mom... nice) almost every other day at practices and games, and she doesn't care. Many parents on the team know about the affair and shy away from both of them at games, but they are both there and sometimes talk to each other on the sidelines as I'm out on the field with the boys. It's heart-wrenching.
> 
> She has never apologized, shown remorse, or slowed down her escapades. In fact, now that I know about it, she seems to be more pursuing him with even more vigor and is almost flippant about it. She still lives in our house with me and our three wonderful children, although she's staked the couch as her bed now. She is a stay-at-home mom (although staying at home is no longer the right term for it). She stills sees him practically every day for lunch while the kids are in school (and I think she pays), every other evening until 11:30 and much, much later on the weekends. She suggests that since I don't like the way she's acting (as it's not very becoming of a married mother of three) and have so much trouble with it, I should leave. Until I discovered what was happening, she was loving and caring and thoughtful and I thought she was perfect. We have a great house in a great neighborhood, with great neighbors, friends, and family. A truly wonderful life, or so I thought. She had mentioned that she felt we were drifting apart and she felt more like a roommate the past year or so, but we were still doing things together, going away on trips together, having sex regularly, etc. Typical 17 year marriage stuff, but nothing "newlywed hot". I do regret not paying more attention to her and doting on her more, but life with three kids and lots of activities and work got in the way sometimes. That doesn't excuse my inattentiveness, but it doesn't give her justification for tearing our world apart either.
> 
> I have told her that I'm willing to try to forgive her past transgressions and work on restoring our marriage to something even better than it ever was, however, she is determined to continue her affair and has threatened divorce multiple times because she knows that is not what I want for our family. Every time I confront her with my frustration on how she's treating me with such venom and hatred that is far from justified, and so far from her normal behavior, she leaves the house and doesn't return for hours, if at all, stating that I'm crazy and I'm not handling this well (first time dealing with infidelity, so I haven't had lots of experience fortunately). Several of my friends have seen her sitting in parking lots all over town, sometimes with him in the car, sometimes by herself... texting, of course. When they do get together in the evenings and weekends, I'm pretty sure it's in parking lots behind local office buildings. Quite the parking lot romance. She is so addicted to the affair, it is text book.
> 
> Her mother, her sister, several of her friends, and my family (with whom she was very close) no longer talk to her and she claims that if people don't support her pursuing her happiness after she's spent the past 17 years making everyone else happy, then she doesn't need them in her life any more. She was very family oriented before all this. This new her is so different and so vulgar and so cruel. It's sad.
> 
> I have met with a lawyer and he's informed me that I can't kick her out, I can't change the locks, I have to maintain status quo (although I don't have to pay for hotel rooms or lunch for her boyfriend, but it's tough to stop those particular charges on the credit card if she's allowed to use it for day-to-day stuff as usual). It's beyond frustrating though that she can have her cake and can eat it too. I've tried outright ignoring her; she gets pissed at me and claims I have no respect for her. I've tried pouring out my heart, but she says that there is no way I should love her after what's she's done and she could never love me after that. In fact, she says she has no love for me now at all, only hatred, and that the only thing I have over her boyfriend is money and a job. I think I could add many other things to that list, but I don't think that will get me anywhere.
> 
> Anyone had any success with 180 or any other strategy when their spouse was so filled with hatred as soon as their affair was exposed? I still do love her, although I haven't told her that for a few weeks, and I do want to try everything possible before throwing in the towel. I think my family deserves that I make every possible attempt at salvaging something that I cherished so much before giving up. Any thoughts, suggestions, or ideas would be so appreciated. Thanks everyone.


Dear friend. I was in the same EXACT boat as you seven years ago. VERBATIM!!!! My wife acted the same exact way (demon possessed ) . Blatantly continuing the relationship after it was discovered. Going away for the weekend, etc.etc. God I wish I knew then, what I know now. I was in fear of a divorce after 10 years and Two kids. But as God as my witness, the best thing you can do now is a complete 180. As much as you font want to face it, Your marriage is over, or at least the possibility of a healthy one. The most important thing for a man to do for himself, and his family (children) is to regain his masculinity and self respect. You may think that she took both of those, but in reality you gave it up. Understand that because of the way that women are wired, they are a ticking time bomb of chaos. Reclaim your place in the universe. Understand that you are a MAN!!! She must feel the consequences of life without you. Don't put your dignity and self respect up for sale (staying in fear of the financial burden of child support and alimony ), no price is enough. I see that a lot of people refer as a wayward spouse as being in "the fog" , but in reality the person who was cheated on is in an even bigger fog if you don't do a 180 immediately like a clap of thunder. I'll probably catch some flack for this but... For men, my suggestion would be to go out get some "strange" as soon as possible. It's very therapeutic, and necessary to bring us out of the fog. The smell, feel, and taste of another woman reminds us that we have options, we are capable of fulfilling the most basic requirement of a man (attracting women) And that we are needed. After being through what I've been through, I've realized that no relationship is worth the emasculation and it puts everything in perspective. There is life (and lots of it) after this horrendous tragedy brought upon you and your children. I know I've rambled on a bit, and I'm typing from my phone, so please excuse any misspellings. God Speed friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WyshIknew

Dynamik, this is a dead thread, you're talking to 'ghosts'.

OP was last active on site towards end of 2011.


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## dynamik

WyshIknew said:


> Dynamik, this is a dead thread, you're talking to 'ghosts'.
> 
> OP was last active on site towards end of 2011.



Bummer
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

WyshIknew said:


> Dynamik, this is a dead thread, you're talking to 'ghosts'.
> 
> OP was last active on site towards end of 2011.


It's almost hollaween ghost time


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