# Affair Red Flags, Is he having one?



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Hi all, I'm new here. Just had a question for everyone, because my gut and my head and my heart are all wanting to disagree right now.

About a month ago, My H and I, went out for a few drinks with my sister in law, her boyfriend, and her best friend. I was out in the "smoke shack" having a cig, when the bartender (whom i hardly know) came up to me and said, "Is your husband the tall skinny guy with black hair and a white hat on?" I said, "yeah. Why?" She says, "well he and some blonde chick are all over each other in the corner." 

So I go in, and they weren't all over each other, but they were sitting next to each other, heads bowed close together talking. I walked up and they talked to me like nothing was going on. But all night that night, the same bartender came up to me over and over again telling me that they were in the corner again. 

I went off on my H, without really having any evidence, but all i know is that, he hardly spent time with me that night, he was hanging out with his sister and her best friend for most of it. 

Fast forward another week. I had to work for the weekend, pulling double shifts. Friday night I came home, H says, "my sister asked me to come over and bring the kids to just hang out." I said, "ok, I'm just going to clean up and go to bed anyway cuz I have to work in the morning." So, he goes. Calls me later that night.. says hes had a few drinks so he was going to stay there. He didn't come home until 4 the next day, one hour before I had to go to work. And I find out his sisters best friend was there. And he had a long curly blonde hair stuck in his goatee (you guessed it, not my hair)

Then fast forward to this Sunday, My H took the kids to a family event (nephews first communion) and I stayed home because I wasn't feeling well. He comes home that evening, and we are sitting at the dinner table eating and his phone goes off. I look at it, and he has a text messege from his sisters best friend. I flew off the handle.. she was asking how the communion went. How is a girl he has only met 3 times, in his phone and asking him how family events went?

I demanded he remove her from his phone. He said he didn't see what the big deal was she is just a friend. I said if its not a big deal then remove her, because your wife of 15 years doesn't feel comfortable with you talking to a single woman. He adimantly refused to remove her... I think hes having an affair with her. 

That night he told me he wants to seperate and is going to go stay at his sisters.. but he hasn't left yet.. and things are tense.

Does it sound like an affair? Am I jumping to conclusions too quickly? 

(sorry this post is so long)


----------



## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Affair, plain and simple. Emotional affair at least which is jsut as bad. You're right, if it's not a big deal, why doesn't he remove her from his contacts? Lilyana, end it, NOW.


----------



## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Wow, the bartender, the blond hair in his goatee (how in the world did he not notice that and remove it before you saw it?), the phone call, wanting to separate and move in to his sister's (which happens to be good friends with the woman involved in all 3 of the other instances) equals a resounding YES he is having an affair. At the very minimum, an emotional affair. Very likely considering the circumstances a physical affair. You are in the right place for encouragement, support, and guidance. 

Take your time and breath deeply. You are in shock and it will get worse. Take some time to read on here, marriagebuilders.com, affaircare.com, etc. Get someone you know and care about for support. It is an extremely rough ride and you need to know someone is in your corner. You are not alone.

My 13 year anniversary was last night. It was a horrible day. I understand what it is like to give someone over a decade and to be slammed in the face with a sledgehammer. I am sorry you are here. Right now and for a while, you will not be able to think clearly. This site helps. Spending time with the kids helps. Those wonderful little smiles are the best medicine. Talking to a trusted friend, pastor, or counsellor helps. Nothing can take away the pain, but these things will help you cope somewhat.

Again, I am sorry you are here. But at least you found this site. There are many here with excellent advice.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Tomorrow is our 15 year anniversary.. so yeah this is killin me


----------



## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> Tomorrow is our 15 year anniversary.. so yeah this is killin me


Damn...


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I think I would be able to move on easier if he would just get the hell out.. but we have this argument on sunday, while i'm sobbing over the dirty dishes.. and he is still friggin here! I want to scream at him JUST GO ALREADY!!! 

Hes been taking walks every night, I'm assuming to talk to her. The kids are always asking me, "wheres daddy?" UGH.. at this point I just want him to go.....


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Ya it definitely sounds like an affair. Tell him it ends or your done. How long has he known her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

sounds like it, I am so sorry, it is a very painful thing to go through.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

He's only known her for about a month.. .aside from the my neice and nephews birthday, the OW was always at those because she is my sister in laws best friend, but I never noticed anything going on, or that they even talked. But they have been "buddy buddy" for about a month.. known each other through his sister for about 8 months.


----------



## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

doesn't matter the amount of time, you have seen the evidence, shady behavior, blonde hair in the beard, I think you already know the answer, and my heart is breaking for you.


----------



## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> Hes been taking walks every night, I'm assuming to talk to her. The kids are always asking me, "wheres daddy?"


Wow, I know exactly what this is like. I rocked my crying daughter to sleep several nights while Mommy was out on a "walk." I am very sorry you are in this situation. The saddest thing about these affairs is all of those precious innocent children are the ones that are hurt the most. 

I don't know how old your children are. Mine are 7, 9, and 10. Some here suggest telling the children. Some say not to. I went back and forth on this one for quite a while. One night, she brought an argument downstairs in front of the kids and I mentioned her boyfriend. The kids just looked like "What did he say?" We sat them down and told them. There were many tears shed that awful night. Everyone but my wife.

I still don't know if it was best to tell them. I would prayerfully consider strongly before I tell your kids about Daddy's girlfriend. If they are older than mine, it probably would be OK. But since you say they ask where Daddy is, I am guessing they are about the same age or younger. That will be one of your toughest decisions, If, when, and how to tell those precious children.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Sadly my kids know the gist of whats going on. They are 6 and 9.. my son is too young to really understand, but he knows we are fighting a lot. My daughter is scared and sad. The text messege he got from the other woman 2 nights ago, the night i became unhinged and went bezerk on him, the kids were here  I couldn't hold it in anymore...

I always told myself no matter what happened i wouldnt fight with him in front of the kids, but I have been holding stuff in for months.. and i just came unglued.. I'm so sorry I did, but the minute i saw the text.. i started sobbing.. was trying to do the dishes.. i just blew up.. threw his phone.. cursed this way and that.. screamed... cried.. 

I walked away.. to my bedroom.. sat quietly in there locked the door and cried for another hour.. avoided him until after the kids went to bed, then (because he fell asleep early) I woke him up to talk to me.. and thats when he told me he wanted to seperate.

I messed up, I shouldn't have blown up with the kids there, but I did.

The last couple days we have remained calm and civil around each other, and the kids haven't mentioned it again. But I have not been able to ask him if he is leaving or what the hell we are doing, and I don't want to blow up in front of the kids again.


----------



## baldmale (Dec 29, 2010)

can you check the phone records online to see the extent of their talks and texts? can you install some spyware on his phone to get the proof you want?

i'm sorry you're going thru this...my recommendation is to engage with him as little as possible because everything he says is likely untrue and waywards have this special way of twisting everything around so everything is your fault.

these choices he is making are not about you; they are about his poor boundaries and choices.

after i had enough proof (in my case i caught her), i gave my wife 3 days (jan 1st was coming) to end all contact, commit to total transparency, and work on the marriage.

otherwise i was filing for divorce. and i would have...you know you can always stop the divorce procedure if they have a change of heart.

in the meantime, put your best foot forward. be that woman he's loved for so long. don't cry in front of him, don't beg, don't plead. those types of behaviors will seem very unattractive to him and just strengthen his resolve to be with the other woman.

i know it's not fair, but you have to be the best you you can be to "win him back," assuming that's what you want.

hang in there, you aren't alone.


----------



## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> I messed up, I shouldn't have blown up with the kids there, but I did.


Well, I wish I had told my kids under better circumstances as well. It is very understandable to lose control in your situation. One piece of advice - don't add alcohol to the mix. A common formula seems to be (Alcohol + Cheating Spouse = Strange fist-sized holes in the wall). You will make mistakes. Everyone does. 

Try to stay calm and civil as much as you can. The 180 helps on that. You can find a lot about it on here. It is more for your own sanity than to save the marriage. You will need all the help you can get to keep your sanity.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm not sure I want him back anymore.. I love him yes. I care about his well being yes. But our marriage has been toxic for years, and I don't know if I can see myself going through 15 more years of it. Plus I'm still somewhat young (34) and not bad looking.. I've been married to this man since i was 19.. i almost want to find out if theres life outside of marriage.

I've had a few days to think about things, since the big blow up and his admitting to wanting to be seperated. And yes it hurts to walk away.. yes, its the hardest thing i will ever have to do in my life. But, maybe its the best thing for both of us? 

While I was typing this my H text messeged me and said, "the philly cheesesteaks you made were awesome" ... the first thing hes said to me in 2 days... which makes me wonder why i'm still fixing his lunches? ..... habit i suppose lol


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

oh I don't drink.. so i'm not worried about me having any drunkin fights with walls.. my H however.. huge drinker, especially around his sister and the OW.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I noticed in another thread that you had left him, or he had left to stay at his brother's house before this happened, earlier this year? What was the reason for the last temporary seperation ?


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I was looking at the online account trying to see his recent texts and calls... I have to pay extra for "detailed billing" to get that info.. i dont know how to find it.. i'm searching for it..why can't verizon make this easier for me? lol


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Yep, I agree with everyone. Even his behavior with wanting to separate and being confused is par for the course. I'm going through this as well. Sad that we all belong to this little club of betrayal. My H won't admit it, but it seems really unlikely that the suspected OW is really just a "friend". I wish you luck.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

The reason for our last seperation was because of his addiction to pornography and sex.. i know some of you are groaning as you read this.. but his was BAD.. He got into BDSM.. literally i wouldn't have sex with him anymore because he would only get off if i were in pain.. not exactly enjoyable to me. 

He joined BDSM clubs here in the city we live in.. which i found out were like "whipping party's" they would all get dressed up in leather and spank each other... apparently there was no "penetration" so he doesn't see it as cheating....

but anyway.. yeah thats the gist of why i left last may. only to be a sucker and fall for the MC and addiction therapy and now an affair.


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> I was looking at the online account trying to see his recent texts and calls... I have to pay extra for "detailed billing" to get that info.. i dont know how to find it.. i'm searching for it..why can't verizon make this easier for me? lol


You can get it online for no charge. Just go into billing, and then there's something you click on where it shows detailed calls and text usage. This is how I found out my H's last EA.


----------



## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> I'm not sure I want him back anymore.. I love him yes. I care about his well being yes. But our marriage has been toxic for years, and I don't know if I can see myself going through 15 more years of it. Plus I'm still somewhat young (34) and not bad looking.. I've been married to this man since i was 19.. i almost want to find out if theres life outside of marriage.
> 
> I've had a few days to think about things, since the big blow up and his admitting to wanting to be seperated. And yes it hurts to walk away.. yes, its the hardest thing i will ever have to do in my life. But, maybe its the best thing for both of us?
> 
> While I was typing this my H text messeged me and said, "the philly cheesesteaks you made were awesome" ... the first thing hes said to me in 2 days... which makes me wonder why i'm still fixing his lunches? ..... habit i suppose lol


Stop fixing his lunches, doing his laundry, and whatever else you deem wifely duties. He's chosen to go outside of the marriage. He wants a separation? Show him that he'll have to take care of himself. If he get upset, let him know that you cannot support him while he's having an affair. Don't be emotional about it, just state it like any other fact. If he starts yelling, calmly tell him that you won't be disrespected and walk away.


----------



## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> The reason for our last seperation was because of his addiction to pornography and sex.. i know some of you are groaning as you read this.. but his was BAD.. He got into BDSM.. literally i wouldn't have sex with him anymore because he would only get off if i were in pain.. not exactly enjoyable to me.
> 
> He joined BDSM clubs here in the city we live in.. which i found out were like "whipping party's" they would all get dressed up in leather and spank each other... apparently there was no "penetration" so he doesn't see it as cheating....
> 
> but anyway.. yeah thats the gist of why i left last may. only to be a sucker and fall for the MC and addiction therapy and now an affair.












I think you're right in wanting to see what else is out there. Your husband seems to only care about himself.


----------



## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Why can't my wife cook me lunch?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> i know some of you are groaning as you read this...


I think you'll be suprised, and you will see that most of us aren't. 

Don't be shy about sharing the whole story about anything and everthing. 

No one will ever groan. Gasp maybe, but never groan.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

ok so i was looking at my verizon account.. and in the details i can't see the text messeges themselves.. they say its a privacy issue and i would need a court order to view my H's phones text messeges. 

I can see what phone numbers he texted to, and what days.. but this is last months bill thats on the internet.. so i'm not even sure if one is her number or not...

not sure what to do there...


----------



## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> ok so i was looking at my verizon account.. and in the details i can't see the text messeges themselves.. they say its a privacy issue and i would need a court order to view my H's phones text messeges.
> 
> I can see what phone numbers he texted to, and what days.. but this is last months bill thats on the internet.. so i'm not even sure if one is her number or not...
> 
> not sure what to do there...


Yeah you can't see the actual contents of the texts. Just look at the numbers and then call the one that appears numerous times. That's your proof right there. I know I could nail my husband with this info, but he switched to MetroPCS and I have no access to his phone records.


----------



## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

you can pay about 10 bucks for a reverse cell phone lookup to get the name.


----------



## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> you can pay about 10 bucks for a reverse cell phone lookup to get the name.


It may come back unlisted, though. You got a deal! I paid $25 for one that gave me name - "unlisted".


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm really not sure if i care enough to shell out money to find out... does that sound horrible?

Part of me is saying.. GOOD TAKE HIM! HES YOUR F&$*%*& PROBLEM NOW!

Another part of me wants the evidence to throw in his face.

And another part of me says.. who flippin cares? It's done, let him do what he wants.. I'll live my life for me and the Kids now.. I'm done!


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

ok another question.. where is the info on 180?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Lilyana said:


> ok another question.. where is the info on 180?


It's everywhere, use the search function here in the forums. I see copies of it get posted in lots of threads. Maybe someone who has access to it quick will post it here for you if you dont find it. I can't imagine it will be hard to find though.

Question though... 

What are you doing a 180 too ? Do you think that something you did or a need you weren't filling for him is the reason that he has a desire to get into BDSM and the debauchery ? You feel like if you were a better wife he wouldn't want to cheat and wouldn't have pervertions ? the bondage and humiliation impluses? 

Obviously you have you faults and everyone could improve as a person and as a spouse, you havent really mentioned what you feel like you did to contribute to the place you guys are in in your marriage and I would like to hear it if you would like to share...


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I know exactly what I did to contribute.. When his porn addiction started to consume my life (about 7 years ago) i quit working. I felt i had to stay home and "babysit" his addiction. To make sure him watching porn while he was suppose to be watching the kids wasn't happening.

Thats his only beef with me.. is that i dont hold a job long. I start working, and something will happen again to make me think I can't trust him so I have to babysit his behavior. 

After a couple years of therapy for my own wellbeing.. (yes I know I'm codependant and all that) I have started to realize I can not control his behavior.. he is going to do what hes going to do no matter if I'm there to watch it happen or not. 

I currently have had a job for almost 2 years now. And he is now really angry with the fact that I don't have to depend on him for everything, He used to control the finances, meaning I didn't have access to money EVER while i wasnt working. He had it all.. accounts in his name only.. cash in his wallet.. everything. And now the argument has turned to how I don't need him anymore so he feels worthless.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

baldmale said:


> don't cry in front of him, don't beg, don't plead.





LonelyNLost said:


> Yep, I agree with everyone. Even his behavior with wanting to separate and being confused is par for the course. I'm going through this as well. Sad that we all belong to this little club of betrayal. My H won't admit it, but it seems really unlikely that the suspected OW is really just a "friend". I wish you luck.


All cheaters say the affair partner is "just a friend."



WhereAmI said:


> Stop fixing his lunches, doing his laundry, and whatever else you deem wifely duties. He's chosen to go outside of the marriage. He wants a separation? Show him that he'll have to take care of himself. If he get upset, let him know that you cannot support him while he's having an affair. Don't be emotional about it, just state it like any other fact. If he starts yelling, calmly tell him that you won't be disrespected and walk away.


This!!!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The 180 List:

[Copyrighted content removed by request of copyright holder http://www.divorcebusting.com/]


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

awesome ty! :smthumbup: I'm already well on my way then.. I look pretty right now and he will be home any minute.. the house is clean.. and as soon as he gets here I'm taking the kids to the park by the river and we are having a picnic dinner without him!


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

What you need to let him know in NO uncertain terms is that you will NOT live in an open marriage. If he wants to leave, let him go.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> I'm not sure I want him back anymore.. I love him yes. I care about his well being yes. But our marriage has been toxic for years, and I don't know if I can see myself going through 15 more years of it. Plus I'm still somewhat young (34) and not bad looking.. I've been married to this man since i was 19.. i almost want to find out if theres life outside of marriage.
> 
> I've had a few days to think about things, since the big blow up and his admitting to wanting to be seperated. And yes it hurts to walk away.. yes, its the hardest thing i will ever have to do in my life. But, maybe its the best thing for both of us?
> 
> While I was typing this my H text messeged me and said, "the philly cheesesteaks you made were awesome" ... the first thing hes said to me in 2 days... which makes me wonder why i'm still fixing his lunches? ..... habit i suppose lol


I'm going through a similar situation with my husband. We separated on April 3, 2011 after he confessed to being unfaithful (again) We are still living the same house although he most nights he sleeps at his "just-a-friend's" house. He can be so ugly one minute with saying horrible things to me to 5 minutes later offering to buy me dinner. It's like WTH demon has possessed you!


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Oh I know! My H hasnt admitted to anything.. hes denying it saying they are just friends and dont talk much and yada yada. but he refuses to remove her from his phone. 

He hasn't said anything too horribly mean to me.. other than that he wanted to separate, and he wasn't sure if our marriage was fixable. Back when I left him last may, he told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore, and that he had considered having an affair. He denys saying it now, says he don't remember ever saying those things.. but when someone says them to you, you remember them VERY well.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Well.. H came home.. strapped on some jogging shorts, grabbed his MP3 player and headed out for a "jog"... this is a man who has NEVER jogged in our 15 years of marriage...

I know hes calling her.. I want to sit here wait for him to get back and ask him how his conversation with his girlfriend was...

I'm so angry.. hurt.. confused.. i just want to sit here and cry


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> Well.. H came home.. strapped on some jogging shorts, grabbed his MP3 player and headed out for a "jog"... this is a man who has NEVER jogged in our 15 years of marriage...
> 
> I know hes calling her.. I want to sit here wait for him to get back and ask him how his conversation with his girlfriend was...
> 
> I'm so angry.. hurt.. confused.. i just want to sit here and cry


HUGS. I know how that is. My husband, who has had 3 knee surgeries suddenly began taking walks at midnight. Because he felt like going for a walk. Yeah, not buying it. I'm so sorry for everything you are going through. Our stories sound so much alike.


----------



## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> Oh I know! My H hasnt admitted to anything.. hes denying it saying they are just friends and dont talk much and yada yada. but he refuses to remove her from his phone.
> 
> He hasn't said anything too horribly mean to me.. other than that he wanted to separate, and he wasn't sure if our marriage was fixable. Back when I left him last may, he told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me anymore, and that he had considered having an affair. He denys saying it now, says he don't remember ever saying those things.. but when someone says them to you, you remember them VERY well.


Remember that right now they are in "the fog" They are like dealing with 2 year olds. They cannot be reasoned with. You just have to throw them in a time out and leave them to kick and scream until eventually, they settle down and come to their senses.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

Yeah, last night it was a bike ride.. tonight it was a jog.. wonder what hes gonna tell me he's doin tomorrow so he can go call her or see her... He jogged tonight for an hour and a half.. said he ran around half the city! YEAH RIGHT!!!!!! coming from a man who NEVER JOGS.. he would have died lol

Anyway on another note.. i slipped his cell phone from under his pillow after he fell asleep.. i just looked thru it.. found OW's number, wrote it down, then deleted her from his phone. Then I set his phone so all of his text messeges and calls he recieves i get forwarded to my phone. I feel like a horrid snoop, but I feel the need to bust him in his lies so I can justify myself with my family and his family when this does end.

The last time, when I left him.. everyone abandoned me, and I don't know why. The kids and I shacked up in a little hotel room until our apartment was ready, and everyone in my family called HIM to see if HE was ok.. I had the kids with me, and didn't recieve one single phone call from anyone to see how I was doing. I guess they figured cuz I was the one that left I was fine.. I don't know.

Anyway I did feel alone, and scared.. but.. I felt better. I wasn't sad and feeling like I had to gaurd my heart anymore. Just don't be stupid like me and let him move into your place with you and try to work it out! STAY SEPERATED UNTIL THE ISSUES ARE SOLVED!


----------



## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> I know exactly what I did to contribute.. When his porn addiction started to consume my life (about 7 years ago) i quit working. I felt i had to stay home and "babysit" his addiction. To make sure him watching porn while he was suppose to be watching the kids wasn't happening.
> 
> Thats his only beef with me.. is that i dont hold a job long. I start working, and something will happen again to make me think I can't trust him so I have to babysit his behavior.
> 
> ...


Please don't stay/ go back to this awful man.

 You really do deserve much much better.


----------



## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> Well.. H came home.. strapped on some jogging shorts, grabbed his MP3 player and headed out for a "jog"... this is a man who has NEVER jogged in our 15 years of marriage...
> 
> I know hes calling her.. I want to sit here wait for him to get back and ask him how his conversation with his girlfriend was...
> 
> I'm so angry.. hurt.. confused.. i just want to sit here and cry


Anger, hurting, confusion and crying are not on the list of pulling the 180 off successfully  We DO know exactly how you feel, however.


----------



## Lilyana (Apr 12, 2011)

I didn't.. I stayed calm.. cool.. collected.. made my picnic basic.. took the kids to the park and had a nice picnic dinner  Came home, got the kids in bed and didn't even acknowledge his existance.


----------



## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Lilyana said:


> I didn't.. I stayed calm.. cool.. collected.. made my picnic basic.. took the kids to the park and had a nice picnic dinner  Came home, got the kids in bed and didn't even acknowledge his existance.


Keep it up then


----------



## nikkipooh187 (Apr 18, 2011)

i know i just replied to a post u posted on someone else's post but i didnt have your whole story. if he's willing to give up 15 years of marriage for a woman he only knew for 3 days...he's not in the marriage anymore and you should leave. it may hurt but you have to do whats best for you and your kids and show him your not gonna tolerate what he's doing


----------

