# Does an EA have to have 2 willing participants



## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

About 18 mths prior to my husbands EA/?PA he spoke of time he spent talking with and having lunch at the office with his bosses daughter of 19. We have known the family for many, many years and watched the girl grow up from age 5. Dad and Mom were having problems with her clubbing and such. She would talk with my husband and others at the office about how to handle things. Now that I think about it my H seemed to be in constant conversation about her. He would come home and tell about things and was always happy sounding. Delighted to have spent time helping her. I just really thought this was nothing because he loves his nieces to death and we have 3 boys, no girls. 
Now when I think back I get this thought in my head that he was head over heels with a crush on her and she had no idea. She was just treating him like an Uncle and hoping he had an inside to why Mom and Dad would let her run. 

He was getting off on the attention of this cute, young girl always talking to him. 

Does this type of EA happen often?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

He fell down the slippery slope of an EA. That's usually how it starts, isn't it? That's why its dangerous for a man and woman to start confiding each other considering intimate emotions and feelings. 

The Red Flags of an Emotional Affair:

Welcome - 10 Red Flags of an Emotional Affair by Jeff Herring

*1) Thinking or saying, "We're just friends."*

If you have caught yourself thinking or saying, "but we're just friends," you are probably already in trouble. "But we're just friends" are four of the most dangerous words for a relationship. These words are usually said to rationalize something you know is wrong. Rationalize is also spelled "rational lies."

*2) Thinking and daydreaming about the person more and more often*

This should be a loud, screaming clue. Do you think and day dream about your regular friends in this way?

*3) Looking forward to the next time you can see and/or talk to the person*

If you feel excitement and anticipation, a quickening of your pulse, as you get ready to see this person, watch out.

*4) Wanting to tell them first when something happens in your day*

This means that this person has become your primary emotional confidant.

*5) Sharing intimate emotions*

This flows naturally from this person being your primary emotional confidant. Because emotional affairs can be harder to break than purely physical ones, you can get trapped right here.

*6) Sharing intimate problems*

Especially dangerous if you are sharing problems in your marriage or relationship with this other person.

*7) You believe that this person understands you much more than your spouse*

Of course it looks like they do. That is part of the illusion of the affair. This belief draws you away from your partner and toward the other person.

*8) Keeping secrets and covering up*

Secrets bond two people together against a third person.

*9) Giving gifts you would not normally give to a friend*

Things to wear, jewelry, and other intimate gifts come with a message: we are very close.

*10) Spending more and more time alone*


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

You know, he probably was enjoying the attention. But does this make him a bad guy or constitute an affair? I don't necessarily think so. During this time, if you were really concerned, you might have tried asking him if he felt like he was getting enough attention from you, or ramped up your affection, etc, to make sure he felt he had enough.

Clearly a 19 year old (assuming she was pretty attractive) is a threat, whether intending to be or not, when a husband feels like he's not getting his ego stroked enough.

But really, if nothing ever happened, I don't see a bad crime committed here. He probably enjoyed the attention, enjoyed looking at her, and that was the end of it. Faithful guys go to strip clubs for the same reason, and they're not bad guys.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I thought this girl was the OW. This prior interaction with a young girl shows that he realy enjoys having his ego stroked, and that he has some very loose boundaries concerning his marriage.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

That's kind of what I was thinking Mayhem. The Office girl I don't think knew he was a danger (LOL) but she probably, as I would have at 19, enjoyed that ego stroke too. I know she would have never let it become anything at all. 

This whole thing started me to thinking, and searching thru past flags. I didn't think she was a flag at that time, even I would talk to her. My oldest worked there too and she was always talking about him. 

Tho now when I think about when He changed and started pulling away it was during the time that she worked there. It was only for a few months during the summer, but enough time to perhaps make him feel like it was ok to search out someone besides me.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

An EA doesn't have to have two willing (or even knowing) participants. This is especially true if one of the parties is a Rescuer type. He/she may have zero romantic or sexual inclinations but has trouble saying "no" when the enamored party pleads for "help" with this or that. The enamored party can build an elaborate infatuation scenario completely on their own.


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> But really, if nothing ever happened, I don't see a bad crime committed here. He probably enjoyed the attention, enjoyed looking at her, and that was the end of it. Faithful guys go to strip clubs for the same reason, and they're not bad guys.


Enjoying looking at her, getting the attention?
That is still cheating, if only in his own mind, getting something from another woman he should only be seeking from his own wife.

... And strip clubs are not places for 'good guys' - It may not be an 'EA' or a 'PA', but it's still cheating.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I agree that guys who regularly go to strip clubs are not the best kind of dudes. But really, it's not cheating to enjoy looking at a beautiful woman dancing on a stage. So everyone who looks at a Playboy is cheating too? Or goes to a topless show in Vegas? Every bachelor party participant is cheating if they go to a strip club? Come on. That's crazy talk.

I'm not talking about guys who go there to try to get laid or finger a girl's sweet spot. I think we all know the difference here. Why do you think they put the pretty girls at the counter at stores, or the hostesses at restaurants? Guys enjoy looking at beauty and are flattered when a beautiful woman gives them attention. It's innate. Women are flattered in other, similar ways. It happens. 

Cheating happens when you take that feeling and act on it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> I agree that guys who regularly go to strip clubs are not the best kind of dudes. But really, it's not cheating to enjoy looking at a beautiful woman dancing on a stage. So everyone who looks at a Playboy is cheating too? Or goes to a topless show in Vegas? Every bachelor party participant is cheating if they go to a strip club? Come on. That's crazy talk.
> 
> I'm not talking about guys who go there to try to get laid or finger a girl's sweet spot. I think we all know the difference here. Why do you think they put the pretty girls at the counter at stores, or the hostesses at restaurants? Guys enjoy looking at beauty and are flattered when a beautiful woman gives them attention. It's innate. Women are flattered in other, similar ways. It happens.
> 
> Cheating happens when you take that feeling and act on it.


I consider lap dances cheating. Do you? Looking to me is ok. 

BUT out of respect for my wife I don't go to strip clubs. It makes it easier to handle boundaries. Since there is an inequity between female and male strip clubs to me a man looking at women at strip clubs is not at the same level as women interacting with strippers at their version of things. Women can get a lot wilder at the male strip clubs. It is not just looking in their case. So agreeing to keep the stip clubs out of the relationship makes this a lot more equitable.

Looking at Playboy and going to a strip club are at different levels for sure. But I get your point about looking. 

I think going to clubs and flirting is a form of cheating. One can argue this and have good points. The point in which it is cheating is where your spouse would become upset if they saw you doing it. Just my opinion.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

That's an excellent point. If you KNOW your wife would be really upset, you shouldn't do it. Not sure if that's really cheating per se, but it is disrespectful.

If only my wife considered my feelings when she opened up her friendship to an EA, I wouldn't even be in this mindset or on this board. But I digress.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

WHoa... 

I think that this conversation is a bit of a slippery slope too.

I think the definition of "affair" in the strict sense requires some level of reciprocation. An affair does take 2. While there are levels of communication that may be considered inapropriate, they can not be considered "affairs" IMO. 

having a crush on or thinking about another person does not constitute an "affair".

I forget the exact stat, but i read (and freely admit and verify this fact) that within 10 seconds of meeting a women a man will picture her naked... Could you call that an affair? Certainly an inappropriate thought, though vitrually impossible to control. I think we are hard wired that way.

Someone is not having an "affair" with the hot girl at starbucks who serves him coffee each morning because he looks forward to seeing her, talks briefly about their day and has thoughts about what she would be like in bed...

Men by nature are "visual" creatures. Actually my pastor had a sermon about relationships and mentioned the fact that men have a visual database of images in our heads we don't really have control over. When we are having sex, thinking about sex, or pretty much breathing we have images that pop into our heads... I affectionately call mine the "spank tank".... Anyway, when I must *fap*fap*fap does each image I have that pops into my head constitute an affair? That's rediculous.

So IMO... An "affair" requires at least 2 active participants.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> WHoa...
> 
> I think that this conversation is a bit of a slippery slope too.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Agree. Having a fantasy is not cheating as long as it isn't acted upon and remains a fantasy. Having lust is something we cannot control. Acting on a feeling of lust is something we can control.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> That's an excellent point. If you KNOW your wife would be really upset, you shouldn't do it. Not sure if that's really cheating per se, but it is *disrespectful*.
> 
> If only my wife considered my feelings when she opened up her friendship to an EA, I wouldn't even be in this mindset or on this board. But I digress.


YES!!!! This is it. I set my boundaries as to whether or not my actions are disrespectful to my wife. Cheating is a sub-set of disrespectful. So as long as I make sure I am not disrespectful. I am golden. 

Excellent point.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

An EA can be one-sided for sure. If a husband falls in love with another it is an affair. Not just a fantasy. YMMV. The difference is that he has pursued it. It is not internalized as a fantasy. They are actively seeking out the other in trying to seduce them into an affair. That is cheating and not just a fantasy.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Entropy3000 said:


> An EA can be one-sided for sure. If a husband falls in love with another it is an affair. Not just a fantasy. YMMV. The difference is that he has pursued it. It is not internalized as a fantasy. They are actively seeking out the other in trying to seduce them into an affair. That is cheating and not just a fantasy.


The above _could be_ described as being unfaithful. 

I don't think it could be considered cheating, and it is not an affair.


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## heartbroken1957 (Apr 8, 2011)

Entropy3000 there is a problem with the "Falling in Love" part of your post. 
A person can fall in love with someone and the other person is not even aware of the feelings. 

So it is an EA. One sided but the fantasy has now become real to the fantasizer because they have now brought it into reality in the hopes or perhaps belief that it is being reciprocated.


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