# I've crap parented my 8 year old 24 hours after his dad did



## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

My 19 year old is presently cajoling my 8 year old after I lost it - shouting, smacking, hysterics from him, you name it. Yes the origins were fair - not doing what he'd been asked to do and asked to do more than once. But I have to accept I lost the plot. 
Poor kid had that from his dad less than 24 hours earlier. F-ing and blinding over a shower curtain. 
All boils down to our (partner & me) struggling relationship. I know and he knows our lovely son shouldn't be taking this. 
To be practical what I need is suggestions about disciplining a bright wilful 8 year old. Withhold TV? Withhold the opportunity for seeing friends? What works best? And no don't worry about the guilt/knowing I was way out of line. I know that. 
I need another route.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Well, I can tell you what my parents did to me to get the point across LOL. I don't do this to my kids YET, but here in the next year I will be starting since they will be old enough to learn from it.

Minor offense -- Did PT in the morning with my dad. Running, push ups , sit ups. TV was taken away for a week.

Major offense -- Everything was taken out of my room except for the bed, pillow, blanket and the most worn out outfits I owned. Because if I couldn't respect the people putting the clothes on my back and the things in my room, then I guess I shouldn't have them! 

Worked like a charm. How long they kept the stuff was always different to what had happened, but let me tell you a month without anything other than your bed in your room is a rough one!


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> ... All boils down to our (partner & me) struggling relationship. I know and he knows our lovely son shouldn't be taking this.
> To be practical what I need is suggestions about disciplining a bright wilful 8 year old. Withhold TV? Withhold the opportunity for seeing friends? What works best? And no don't worry about the guilt/knowing I was way out of line. I know that.
> I need another route.


As well as knowing what sanctions to use and deciding how many warnings I would give and sticking to it, I found it helped me to have a "strategy" for how I would compose myself if I was in a situation where my natural reaction/instinct was veering towards my blowing my top in a way which I would likely regret later (e.g. shouting, swearing, labelling, being menacing, making ill thought through unworkable, disproportionate or idle threats etc).

My route included breathing slowly, counting to 10 in my head SLOWLY, sending child to their room to give myself space to think and calm down. 

Also my realising that I didn't have to verbalise the sanction to the child at the same time the bad behaviour occurred took some pressure off me (telling my child that I would speak to them LATER about the consequences/punishment for their bad behaviour - I found it did the child no harm to sweat a LITTLE worrying about what the punishment would be).

My sanctons included extra chores, grounding etc. but of course there's always the carrot versus stick approach. It made a huge difference when I tried to make a point of noticing, acknowledging and praising their good behaviour. When mine were little they loved to be "rewarded" for good behaviour with tickles or playing a favourite game together as the end of the day (the carrot).


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks both. 
DawnD: I think that's more extreme than I, not he, could cope with plus his dad's not here half the time, which exacerbates the situation anyway. 

Advocado: I think knowing how to compose myself is an excellent idea. Frustration at dealing with talking over me as I try to be reasonable and explain things just makes me more wound up. 
Only problem I see is that he's just as likely to refuse to go to his room ... leaving me with an argumentative child not allowing me to defuse. I reckon leaving him to sweat about what sanctions there might be sounds good. We've had a 'behaviour chart' for several weeks now. His bike was run over accidentally and we decided that since his behaviour could do with tweaking - and the bike was left on the track by him despite knowing and being told it shouldn't be - that we would use it as the carrot and stick combined, good behaviour getting a roll of the dice, bad behaviour a 'reverse' roll. He's got within sight of the bike but this morning he's grabbing the chart to trash it & won't listen to me saying every time he doesn't do something the first time it'll simply be ONE space back. Good behaviour has shown him he'll get the dice, many times. 
Trouble is (my problem) I'm so upset about his dad & me & our future, plus the way he was shouted at by his dad just two days ago, it leaves me in tears that I can't deal with my own child nicely. 
This is a whole picture of how not establishing consequences, consistently, leads to built up trouble. His dad & I have locked horns many many times - often in front of him, which is the cardinal sin - about not being seen to 'reward' bad behaviour (which I consider his dad effectively does, quite often). In return he reckons I pick up our son about too trivial stuff... I was brought up with very good table manners and want him, for example, to not have his elbows on the table, put knives in his mouth after putting in the butter or whatever, dad reckons that's ok in formal situations but should be 'relaxed' in the kitchen. I say that gives mixed messages. Anyway, this is detail just to build up the picture. 
Son is again being dealt with by my 19yo daughter & I'm at a loss as to how to move forward. nb dad's not here for 17 days, he's at his other house where I'm not welcome (more building up the picture!)
Will probably go and say to 8yo the 'I'll speak to you later about he consequences' routine & see what pans out. 
Thanks for your input, anything else (and from anyone else????) will be gratefully received.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

If you anticipate son will refuse to go to his room then, for the time being at least, don’t ask him to do this. Instead, in his presence discretely use the breathing, counting composure techniques until you feel calm enough to tell him in a measured and low tone of voice (rather than high, screatchy tone) to stop doing whatever (keep it short - you can explain/question/reason with him another time when you are both calm). Then YOU might elect to go to your room/another part of the house/garden for some space rather than him going to his room. Obviously don’t make it seem like you are fleeing from him (calmly “Stop doing ....... Now where was I?: Oh yeah, I’m going to the to the bathroom/garden” kind of thing.) 

Even when I didn’t feel completely composed, I would try and make myself ACT like I was! It helped me to keep in mind that participating in a exchange with an argumentative angry child was totally pointless and I would act calm and tell him that I am not going to discuss this with him now and keep repeating this until he ran out of steam – no matter what arguments he put forward (good or bad) and no matter how angry, hurtful or personal his protestations (I would try and make mental note of his points so I could address them another time as necessary). Yes, kids do know how to push their parents buttons but I would remind myself that I am the adult and would not rise to the bait in the moment). I have to say though that I think this can only work if the parent is consistently making a point of LOOKING for. noticing, acknowledging and praising the good behaviour. I needed to make sure I didn’t only react to my child if they were mis-behaving whilst (unintentionally) ignoring good behaviour - even if it was just the child playing quietly with his construction toy in the corner. E.g. I would make a point of going over to him and acting interested in what he was making and add well done for playing quietly whilst I relax/get on with x y z and get that out of the way – we’ll be having lot of time for tickles/playing together at bedtime.

I’m wondering if you give him a warning about bad behaviour before going to the ‘reverse’ roll of the dice. I always liked the sound of behaviour charts but in practise found it onerous to keep them up to date and I would give up, feeling a bit of a failure. I’m sure it works wonders for some families but I just couldn’t make it work. For me, keeping a mental tally of good deeds, verbally acknowledging and praising them specifically throughout the day and telling the kid he was earning extra tickles/play time with me at the end of the day or whenever was enough to give him something to look forward to and aim for. Maybe this is something you could think about if your son it at the stage where he wants to trash the chart. 

If you’ve really tried and just cannot get his dad on the same page as far as not arguing about what is and is not acceptable behaviour for your son when your son is present then, for the greater good kind of thing, you may have to simply refrain from giving your opposing point of view until later when the boy is not around. Of course this is all easier said than done (you might need to use the breathing, counting to 10 calming measure here as well to stop yourself from arguing with your husband at inappropriate times, LOL). Do try not to see this as you simply giving in to your husband. Hopefully, if you’re consistent with this, your husband will eventually work out that you will not rise to his bait in front of the child and wait for a better time. 

With Dad not being around for 17 days maybe it’s a good opportunity for you to practise any new tactics you decide you want to try out without his intervention!


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Thanks again... 
I immediately adopted (your) plan B ref 'I'll speak to you later about the consequences' and lo and behold it worked! Not 100% perfect, of course, but virtually. He kept talking over me a bit, but generally pretty much accepted nothing was going to happen there and then it was going to be discussed later. And when I sat him down in the evening & explained my sanctions - no TV at all for effectively a day and a half but nothing more than that (he suggested losing some slots on the behaviour chart too but I said no, it was dealt with) there wasn't a squeak of dissent. 
Go you!!!!
The idea of removing myself sounds good too - if I can avoid making it obvious I'm stomping off in frustration/upset 
Saying I'm not going to discuss it now will also be easier said than done but sounds like adult argument avoidance technique so I guess that should work too. I like the sounds of LOOKING for good behaviour. Yes I do definitely move the chart along if something brilliant's been noticed, and he's definitely chuffed by that but you're right it's easy to overlook the everyday 'child being absorbed in something causing no problems to anyone' type stuff. 
Once again you're right ref not raising the issue of our difference in attitude to manners/ etc in front of 8yo. We know that and sometimes succeed sometimes fail. Problem is 8yo (as probably they all do to an extent) plays us off against each other about this as well as many other issues.... not least because dad's not here all the time so I'm parenting single-handed then he comes along and 'changes' things (I don't *always* disagree once we've discussed in detail but it's quite irksome to have him upset the apple cart on a regular basis) 
And of course you're right too that it shouldn't be about us parents disagreeing it should be about not disagreeing in front of 8yo. Mind you I struggle with the notion that 8yo then thinks it's ok (for example) to eat slobby, noisily, arms on the table, etc., even some of the time.... Either way, it would certainly be a new notion if I were to not react. That's our principal problem, the pair of us. Reacting. We get on intellectually/sexually/etc but day to day differences are the stumbling block. 
Having agreed with so much of what you've said I know it'll prove less easy to implement but thanks for saying it all so clearly.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

To take that a step further, one of my favorite punishments is to say "I'm going to think about your punishment; go to bed; I'll let you know in the morning what it will be."

Having to deal with it overnight magnifies the issue, lets them worry themselves silly, and think about what they did.

Another thing that worked for us was to ask the child what THEY think their punishment should be. Gets them to actually think about the action that caused the punishment. Teaches them to logic things, and also to learn to negotiate. Kids often feel a loss of power; this way, you're teaching him to use his brain - not his attitude - to get what he wants. And it rewards him for doing so.


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## pulse (Mar 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> Mind you I struggle with the notion that 8yo then thinks it's ok (for example) to eat slobby, noisily, arms on the table, etc., even some of the time.... Either way, it would certainly be a new notion if I were to not react. That's our principal problem, the pair of us. Reacting. We get on intellectually/sexually/etc but day to day differences are the stumbling block.


Could you and your husband come to some compromise about table manners and the like - e.g. if husband thinks A, B, C, D, E, F are all acceptable whereas you do not, could you both agree that you would refrain from telling son off about A, B, C and that you would only correct son if he did D, E, F and your husband would not contradict you on D, E, F.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

pulse said:


> Could you and your husband come to some compromise about table manners and the like - e.g. if husband thinks A, B, C, D, E, F are all acceptable whereas you do not, could you both agree that you would refrain from telling son off about A, B, C and that you would only correct son if he did D, E, F and your husband would not contradict you on D, E, F.



I suspect our relationship's at the point that any talk of negotiation/compromise - which doesn't go down well with OH because he's been in business much of his life and seems to resent spending time debating at home, preferring to 'be the boss' in both places (which notion doesn't fit well with me) - wouldn't be the best option currently. 
I agree your suggestion might be the ideal, but given my oh's views and my rather strident beliefs (I accept they may not be the norm but I'd rather my children know how to behave in *all/any* company) I'm not sure. Yes but no but, to plagiarise a popular UK comedy!
Same child, different scenario. Tonight. Friends/neighbours invited us to supper. Me, 19yo daughter & 8yo go. (oh in home country). They've two kids playable age with 8yo plus 18mo baby. Comes dark, pretty near time to go, the husband has a traumatic family phone call re illness, baby getting ready for bed. I say we have to go. 8yo says no I don't want to. Now that should be something any parent can deal with but it was a flat NO and he organised the 'home' kids to find a torch & they disappeared into the scrub. I did manage not to lose it completely as we drove home; he'd actually (under duress) said thankyou & goodbye to the mum... I said I'd talk to him tomorrow about what would happen but there wouldn't be anything nice planned. Which doesn't help because I have a meeting & 19yo would have been taking him to the beach/zoo so WHAT DO I DO I think to myself. Anyway, he won't say goodnight nicely, I explain that he's the only child I know who point blank refuses to do what he's asked at the end of a very nice evening; though I'm not sure how much one should explain to an 8yo. So although we've made huge strides in the past few days, this leaves me feeling flummoxed again. I'm just glad I didn't totally lose it. I did stop the car on the way home & threaten a smack, but realised that was achieving nothing so said he knew what he'd done wrong and we'd deal with it tomorrow. 
HO hum... help???? 
nb 19yo's volunteered to keep him at home for a boring day but as I see it that's putting them at loggerheads when it's his discipline issues with me (/his dad) that should be in question, not placing problems at their door as a brother/sister.


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## Advocado (Feb 24, 2010)

madimoff said:


> ... nb 19yo's volunteered to keep him at home for a boring day but as I see it that's putting them at loggerheads when it's his discipline issues with me (/his dad) that should be in question, not placing problems at their door as a brother/sister.


I was really glad to hear that things were going a little better and am not too surprised it isn't all plain sailing - there are bound to be setbacks from time to time when you're trying to implement new methods. Be sure to reflect often and give yourself a pat on the back when you know you have done the right thing and on occasions when things do not turn out well have a good long think about what you might have done differently if you could have your time over and bank that for next time a similar situation arises (e.g. would it have been possible to give him say 5 minutes notice before it was time to leave or would you want to have taken some slow deep breaths/slow count to stop yourself from hinting to son what the punishment might be before you had time to really think it through.)

To pull this back, without loosing too much face or looking like it was an idle threat, how would you feel about saying to 8yo that you know 19yo was looking forward to going to the beach and do not want to disappoint her and so on this occasion the punishment will be loss of playstation (or whatever) for a day instead of not going to the beach. 

Like you say, you really don't want the 19yo to end up at loggerheads with her brother or to eventually become resentful. 

If I may suggest one other thing - how about (in a quite moment), ask you 8yo why he went and hid when it was time to go home - even if you believe you know the answer, ask him anyway. On the odd occasion I got some surprising answers to what I though was a foregone conclusion - answers that helped me view things from another standpoint. At the very least, by the parent asking and paying attention to their answer, it shows the child you value their opinion. Another benefit is it helps the the child reflect on their own behaviour.

Lastly, I have to say it sounds like you've parented a gem of a 19yo. If I am right and you've done so well with her I'm betting it'll all turn out great with the 8yo also. It's just every child is different and as parents it's hard to adjust to the feelings and needs of different children, different circumstances etc.


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## madimoff (Feb 17, 2010)

Advocado said:


> (snip)
> 
> Lastly, I have to say it sounds like you've parented a gem of a 19yo. If I am right and you've done so well with her I'm betting it'll all turn out great with the 8yo also. It's just every child is different and as parents it's hard to adjust to the feelings and needs of different children, different circumstances etc.


Thanks for your help again (and pulse, and turnera, btw: thinking overnight and/or asking his suggestion for punishment are both worth a shot) ; yes it has been going better. Not sure the 19yo will go for going out anyway; she's worried he'll be in a grump & even worse to cope with. May suggest it, though. 
Ref your last point, yes of course she's a gem!....... not to forget the 8yo has a different dad to her & her elder brother...... he & I, as I've said, have a 'can't live with, can't live without' type relationship. Her dad was a real mate but with no drive or passion. So I have to take the rap for my choices!!!!!


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