# Sexless marriage: 24-years-old and married barely a year



## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

So, like many people on here, I am in what I consider a sexless marriage. To get started, forget about her cheating, just trust me, it isn't happening. Love and honesty aren't issues.

My wife and I have been married barely a year. We've been together for about 2.5 years. We met at 21 and both just turned 24. In the first six months we were together, we had sex multiple times a week. After that, it became once a week, twice a month, once a month, and now, ever since we got married, about every month and a half. First anniversary sex?...no. Birthday sex?...no. Valentines, Christmas...no, no. We didn't even have sex for the first two days of our honeymoon in Mexico which was directly after our wedding. I love her more than anything, but I want intimacy. Without it, I feel like we have lost a great deal of passion.

The issue has been talked about multiple times. Her usual reasons include she is tired, she hurts, she is on birth control (she refuses to get off of it), she just wants to be sweet, she is fat (she's not), and she has no desire and the thought of it disgusts her (forget about oral). She says if we would just go to bed earlier, but she watches some show or works on photos (photographer) whenever she has a free moment, usually until she gets tired and falls asleep. She actually loves it most when we sit, watch TV, and I rub her head and back. That's fine, but dang it gets boring.

I've tried backing off the subject (because she often assumes I'm shallow(she's told me straight-up)) and doing more to help her out. I l began increasing my workout intensity and got ripped to increase her attraction. I understand that birth control may be an issue, but she was on it in the beginning with no problems. Actually, most everything that is an excuse now was present before but not a problem at the time. She has said before she thought she would need to have sex more to keep me in the beginning which wasn't true and almost feels like an illusion (not implying it actually was). Granted, she works hard, but I work hard too, and stay stressed working on my Ph.D. I know I can do better at being a better husband and at being more attentative, but is anyone perfect? Oh, and my attempts are rejected 100% of the time. When we rarely do it, it is because she either wants it or feels guilty, not sure which one anymore. It is kind of emasculating to not be able to pick-up your own wife (sadly, it would be easier to pick-up a stranger). 

Anyways, I'm becoming more depressed about having a relationship without passion. Also, it is messing with my head and I'm having increased trouble controlling myself because my anxiety to do good has increased because I know it will be a while before I get another chance. No male my age has posted on this thread. She now thinks I don't care about her because I'm beginning to lose my affection (fewer head and back massages, or don't hold her as much, things she considers innocent and sweet). I love her, but I'm just beginning to give up, and what's the point in being affectionate if I'm just going to get aroused and make her mad. Heck, any 24-year-old male is going to get aroused laying in bed next to a beautiful half naked woman (she even falls asleep every time after I give her full-body aka nude massages). It's like a bad joke.

I would love to hear any suggestions or comments. It would be nice to know that I don't have to feel like a jerk but maybe I should just respect her and find a way to be affectionate without any thought of sex.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> I've tried backing off and doing more to help her out. I lift weights and got ripped to increase her attraction. I understand that birth control may be an issue, but she was on it in the beginning with no problems. Actually, most everything that is an excuse now was present before but not an excuse.


If nothing has changed, then there is probably no particular, environmental or hormonal cause.



husband1987 said:


> She has said that she thought she would need to have sex more to keep me in the beginning which wasn't true and almost feels like a trick.


Am I reading this correctly? She used sex to lure you into marriage and now that you're hitched, she has no further use for sex? Yikes.



husband1987 said:


> Anyways, I'm becoming more depressed about having a relationship without passion. No one my age has posted on this thread.


You should be concerned. Sexless marriages don't resolve themselves naturally. You need to change the trend you're currently on.



husband1987 said:


> She now thinks I don't care about her because I'm beginning to lose my affection (fewer massages, or don't hold her as much, things she considers innocent and sweet). I love her, but I'm just beginning to give up, and what's the point in being affectionate if I'm just going to get aroused and make her mad. Heck, any 24-year-old male is going to get aroused laying in bed next to a beautiful half naked woman. It's like a bad joke.


You may be onto something. You've tried backing off sex. That makes her happy, but doesn't get you more sex. You've tried helping out with her chores. That also makes her happy, but doesn't get you more sex.

So you've got to shake things up. I recommend two strategies. First, go to Married Man Sex Life and look over Athol Kay's blog. He's got awesome information and strategies. He's written a book that is even more awesome than the website.

Basically, Athol's strategy is called the MAP. If you are a 5 and your wife is a 6, she may think you're unworthy of her interest. If you increase your attractiveness to a 6, she becomes interested again. If you get up to a 7, she starts to worry that you'll leave her for an upgrade and she brings up her game in the bedroom to keep you satisfied. This strategy is very effective, but takes months or years to reach its full effect.

A second strategy is faster and you've stumbled onto that now. It's called the thermostat strategy. You are the hot spouse and you're wife is the cold spouse. Your wife likes you being hot, but she's not willing to heat up herself. The way to get her to take notice of the problems in your marriage is to cool off. Since she's not meeting your needs, you can stop meeting hers. When she asks you why you're suddenly being cold, you can tell her that you've decided you're going to match her level of effort in the relationship. Why should you love her more than she loves you?

The thermostat strategy is riskier than Athol's MAP because you're not changing yourself much. You're simply not being as nice to her. That may lead her to withdraw further, have an affair, or divorce you.

Until you have resolved your sexual issues, you should absolutely NOT have children. There are way too many stories on these boards of men with unsatisfying sex lives having children only to see their sex lives collapse completely and be stuck in the marriage because of the children.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Thank you for the reply. 

You might be right about the looks ratings. Even though I consider her to be the prettier one, she swears she isn't as good-looking (she is). She doesn't workout anymore and I continue to body build (note: no steroids).

Regarding the trickery, she did say she felt that lots of sex would keep me interested. Once we became engaged, sex started to drop off dramatically. But I'm not implying that she tried to trap me.

The sad thing is she always asks me if I'm happy and if I have everything I wanted in a new wife. Of course I say yes, but I'm honest, and tell her I wanted a passionate relationship. 

No, kids won't make it better, especially while I'm in grad school. We are mature and understand that. If anything, they will distract her more.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> she has no desire and the thought of it disgusts her


Hi husband ~

Sorry you are going through this. It never seems to fail - we all seem to be destined to have incompatibilities in one way or another with our mates - I guess it causes us to have to grow and stretch and mature in ways that we never really want to sometimes. 

I agree with PHTlump's advice. Here, also, is the thermostat thread that he mentioned:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

I quoted something from your original post that concerns me a little bit. I'm concerned that the thought of sex disgusts her. Do you know what kind of upbringing she had? What her prior sexual experiences were? Whether she had any sexual abuse in her past? I'm wondering what the origin of her repression is.

Best wishes.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

I know she was never sexually abused, and she has only been with two other guys. However, these two were complete jerks and she was engaged for a month to the worst one. She has mentioned that girls are raised to think guys want one thing, and when I try to explain to her that it actually means something much deeper to me, she shrugs it off. 

I've heard sex described as grotesque by others on birth control. However, birth control isn't a new thing for her.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

I read the thermostat advice and it isn't completely accurate. She is wonderful to me. She always calls and texts me, kisses me, tells me she loves me, but she will not have sex with me. She just seems perfectly happy without it, and expects me to remain sweet and be patient.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Well, hormonal birth control can definitely mess with a woman's libido, usually depressing it. When you mess with your hormones, there's often some kind of repercussion in many people. When I was on bc pills in my early 20's for a few years, and then went off them, my H and I used to joke that the way they worked was by making the woman want to be celibate. 

Well, your wife has some hang-ups, doesn't she? Those can be hard to overcome - and SHE has to be the one that needs to want to overcome them. She has to the one in the starring role for that, but YOU get to be the supporting actor in all of this.

What do you think would get her attention enough to care to try something? Would she be willing to go off the bc as an experiment? Would she be willing to go to a MC so that you can start communicating about this? Would she be willing to read any marriage books - there are a lot of good ones that can help describe what sex within marriage means to a man?

In the meantime, read through the other resources you were given and look at implementing some of those changes in yourself - to try and help yourself gain back some of your sense of worth and to try and inspire or spur a change within her.

Best wishes.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> I read the thermostat advice and it isn't completely accurate. She is wonderful to me. She always calls and texts me, kisses me, tells me she loves me, but she will not have sex with me. She just seems perfectly happy without it, and expects me to remain sweet and be patient.


You are okay with remaining sweet and being patient - even if you have to remain that way the rest of your married life?

I think this will be hard for you, BUT if you are not willing to 'rock the boat' in some way, then you will need to brush up on that patience - you will be having to be patient for a long time.

Let me ask you this - do YOU feel like you should have to defer to what it is that she wants in this? If so, why?


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

I agree with you there. I've told her the same thing. Our couple friends got off BC and talked with her about it because their sex lives improved. No go for her. It's not that she wouldn't do the things mentioned, she just doesn't think sex is important enough to do them. I would probably have to threaten divorce which I wouldn't do.

What I have noticed is that she is nicest girl I've ever been with and the most sane. With that said, the crazies were all very active. 
Is that a tradeoff for men.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Because marriage really isn't about sex in my opinion. However, I didn't know how hard it would be to live without a nice sex life. My tone may change in time. But no, I do not think it is fair. I just keep telling myself that there is a legitimate reason (stress, hormones) that will change. I'm probably being naive.

Maybe I should turn up the heat. Just hate sounding like a sex-hungry jerk. She does ask every now and then if I think about other girls. I guess it bothers her that I work with young college girls and she says other girls often notice me.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

H1987,
In a healthy loving marriage the following statements are ALWAYS true:
1. Each spouse makes a good faith effort to do things that make their partner feel loved
2. And perhaps even MORE important each spouse makes a sincere effort to AVOID doing things that cause their partner to feel UNLOVED

Your W likely NEEDS you to show some edge for her to feel desire. That means when she is behaving in a manner inconsistent with 1 and 2 above you let her know through your actions that you are disappointed that she has deprioritized you. 

I bet every time she sends you a text/tells you she loves you - you respond in kind quickly and completely. For a woman who NEEDS sexual "tension" that is a TOTAL desire killer. Total. 

The fact that she won't switch to condoms is a HUGE message that you and your emotional need to feel love through sexual intimacy have been completely deprioritized. At some level she is shocked and disappointed that you are not standing up for yourself. 

If you are too afraid of "upsetting" her to calmly tell her that you will not continue to make her your highest priority when she is treating you this way, then you WILL have a sexless marriage for as long as you two remain married. 

You truly believe you are being kind and patient and respectful. At a core/primal level she perceives your behavior as fearful and weak. She may like you, but she cannot respect you when you behave that way. 





husband1987 said:


> Because marriage really isn't about sex in my opinion. However, I didn't know how hard it would be to live without a nice sex life. My tone may change in time. But no, I do not think it is fair. I just keep telling myself that there is a legitimate reason (stress, hormones) that will change. I'm probably being naive.
> 
> Maybe I should turn up the heat. Just hate sounding like a sex-hungry jerk. She does ask every now and then if I think about other girls. I guess it bothers her that I work with young college girls and she says other girls often notice me.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> H1987,
> In a healthy loving marriage the following statements are ALWAYS true:
> 1. Each spouse makes a good faith effort to do things that make their partner feel loved
> 2. And perhaps even MORE important each spouse makes a sincere effort to AVOID doing things that cause their partner to feel UNLOVED
> ...


Wow, that it some deep evolutionary stuff, but it makes sense. She knows I'm completely unhappy with the situation, but I do stay kind. 

She freaks when I turn a cold shoulder, but maybe I will do it, tell her why, and let her deal with it. It's not that I'm afraid, I'm just trying to be a gentlemen, but this forum is confirming my hunch that I am in the right.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

H1987,
You need to prepare yourself. And you need to have a plan. 
Step 1: Stop reassuring your W that you are ok with what is happening. You are not. And frankly you shouldn't be. 
Step 2: Prepare yourself to accept that she is going to get extremely upset with you for a while. This will pass IF and ONLY IF you remain calm and firm. Do NOT let her get you angry. Do NOT say anything mean or hostile to her. Simply stop being so loving and supportive and let her melt down so that she can have an "epiphany" and realize that a sexless/near sexless marriage is EMOTIONALLY harmful to the HD spouse and therefore to the marriage. 
Step 3: You need to be clear and concise regarding your expectations for her. If it were me those would be a short non-negotiable list. 
A. She goes off the pill immediately. It is a possible contributor to the problem and therefore it must go. This is not optional. 
B. She begins to make AT LEAST as much effort as you do non-sexually. This means that you alternate giving massages. They don't need to lead to sex. However if your typical massage is a half an hour - hers needs to be comparable. She is NOT allowed to tease you - inner thigh massage/etc. UNLESS she intends to actually have sex with you. 
C. AFTER she has been off the pill long enough for its libido impact to have dissipated (I don't know how long that is - google research may give you an idea) SHE and you need to BOTH learn how to get her in the mood when she starts out in "neutral". Most women, if they love their (typically) higher drive partners, are willing to let those partners gently warm them up so that they get aroused and desire sex. 

In the meantime I suggest that you get MMSL by Athol Kay. Read it. Try some stuff and see what happens. For instance my W likes to wrestle. It is a type of foreplay for us. I would NEVER in a million years hurt her. That said, she likes it when I overpower her. I think this is very common. 







husband1987 said:


> Wow, that it some deep evolutionary stuff, but it makes sense. She knows I'm completely unhappy with the situation, but I do stay kind.
> 
> She freaks when I turn a cold shoulder, but maybe I will do it, tell her why, and let her deal with it. It's not that I'm afraid, I'm just trying to be a gentlemen, but this forum is confirming my hunch that I am in the right.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

H1987,
One last thing. Your W is not nearly as happy as she could be. But she is "comfortable". By removing her comfort, you will make her very angry. That is ok. In fact it is NECESSARY. However, she will likely test your resolve in the most extreme fashion possible. She may hint/threaten to end the marriage. And when that happens you need to show her that you have the courage to BET the marriage to save the marriage. If she is willing to end the marriage - rather than work with you to make it a healthy marriage - you NEED TO LET HER do so. Don't get aggressive and feed her anger. Just let her know that you will respect her decision if she would rather walk away then treat you like a man and show you and your needs respect. 

IF YOU FOLD, when she seems to be considering walking away, you will NEVER have a healthy marriage. 

Trust me on this. One reason my W and I have a loving marriage is we are both fully cognizant of the fact that if either of us treated the other badly over a period of time, the badly treaten partner would walk. This is not a bad thing. It is a good thing. 




MEM11363 said:


> H1987,
> You need to prepare yourself. And you need to have a plan.
> Step 1: Stop reassuring your W that you are ok with what is happening. You are not. And frankly you shouldn't be.
> Step 2: Prepare yourself to accept that she is going to get extremely upset with you for a while. This will pass IF and ONLY IF you remain calm and firm. Do NOT let her get you angry. Do NOT say anything mean or hostile to her. Simply stop being so loving and supportive and let her melt down so that she can have an "epiphany" and realize that a sexless/near sexless marriage is EMOTIONALLY harmful to the HD spouse and therefore to the marriage.
> ...


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The first thing you have to do is decide that sex is very important to you. And that you can't, as a man, decide that everything is great except for sex. You have to decide and realize that by anyone's definition of marriage, including all men and all women and all churches, that sex is the key part of marriage that makes it different from all other relationships. In other words, YOU are NORMAL, and your wife is the one who is lacking. You are not a pervert or a pest or insensitive or any of that.

Now, your wife does not value sex, becuase every man she meets and has ever met wants her sexually. Therefore there is no value to her in sex. You as a man pursued hundreds of women for sex. And the ones that "give it up" must love you. Therefore you equate sex with love.

Now, one of the things you have to do in your marriage is find the thing that sex does for you, i.e. makes her feel loved, happy, fulfilled. 

In addition, you have to go the tough love route that MEM outlines above. I will say that when you do step 3, you need to tell her that sex is important to you on an emotional level and try to explain the difference between how a man views sex compared to a woman. She will throw alot at you. She will say you are selfish, all her excuses, you are a pervert and all of that. Your answer to this is that you are not forcing her to do anything, that she has to look in her heart and decide what kind of wife she wants to be in her marriage.

Underlying all this you need to make it clear that if she cannot choose to provide you with sexual fulfillment, that she is not abiding by your definition of marriage and she is choosing not to participate in the marriage.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

husband 1987 - you sounds very close to where i was last year,
things havent improved. we havent had sex in neally a year (im 27)

we dont argue much and have a young daughter but have decided counsilling. i feel our marriage is more or less normal apart from the no sex part.

prepare yourself for some hard times, and although i havent and you sounds like you probably wont. you will have thoughts about cheating/paying for sex or picking up elsewhere.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Thank you all for the advice. It is very helpful. Mostly to be reassured that I'm not a pervert, and that sex has to be a priority despite work, stress, etc. You all seem like you have been in my shoes or are still there.

She knows it is important and meaningful to me. For a while, I talked the subject into the ground in attempt to get some ounce of concern for the situation, nothing. Just your selfish, I'm tired and you should understand, but you can rub my head and feet.

I'll read and prepare for harder times. Brendan, your right, thoughts do enter your mind, especially when you are young and work around lots of other girls your age that actually seem to notice you. It is nice to be checked out when you are killing yourself to be in shape for someone who never seems to notice.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> Regarding the trickery, she did say she felt that lots of sex would keep me interested. Once we became engaged, sex started to drop off dramatically. But I'm not implying that she tried to trap me.


Why not? It sounds like she's admitting to exactly that. And that's not love. That's just cold manipulation.



husband1987 said:


> The sad thing is she always asks me if I'm happy and if I have everything I wanted in a new wife. Of course I say yes, but I'm honest, and tell her I wanted a passionate relationship.


Good. Honesty is always good. If you lie, she will know you're lying. What you need to work on now is making your actions consistent with your words without looking like you're pouting.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

If she always asks you if she if you are happy, and if you have everything, you should ask her "Are you happy and do you havce everything you wanted in a husband"... If she says no, ask her in what ways could you meet her needs better. If she says yes, then you should tell her that actually, no you are not everything I wanted in a new wife. I expect my marriage to be sexual.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Hicks said:


> If she always asks you if she if you are happy, and if you have everything, you should ask her "Are you happy and do you havce everything you wanted in a husband"... If she says no, ask her in what ways could you meet her needs better. If she says yes, then you should tell her that actually, no you are not everything I wanted in a new wife. I expect my marriage to be sexual.


We've had that conversation. She says I'm perfect, I tell her I want a more sexual relationship. She says I'm sorry, ant that is that. 

Enough is enough. I'm convinced to make a stand. It seems to me from all the books, even MMSL, that the woman will always be in control of sex. All the books are just strategies for men. The only way for a man to get some control is to marry a kinky woman.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> Because marriage really isn't about sex in my opinion. However, I didn't know how hard it would be to live without a nice sex life. My tone may change in time. But no, I do not think it is fair. I just keep telling myself that there is a legitimate reason (stress, hormones) that will change. I'm probably being naive.


You are being naive. Marriage is absolutely about sex. Especially for men. For men, regular sex is probably the primary reason for marriage. Marriage doesn't have to be ONLY about sex. But a marriage without sex is like a hamburger without beef.

You are young and you probably have a very idealized picture of marriage. You think that the vows you took mean that you and your wife must show each other unconditional love forever. The problem is, it's not true. Adults don't have unconditional love for each other. Even married couples. If you quit your job, gained 200 pounds, planned to be on welfare forever, and spent every day playing video games on the couch, your wife would absolutely divorce you. You would have become worthless in her eyes. And women want high value in a mate.

So don't fool yourself that your wife would never leave you or hurt you, so you shouldn't hurt her. She's already hurting you in the honeymoon stage of your marriage. If you allow this to continue, she will only value you less and less as time goes on.



husband1987 said:


> Maybe I should turn up the heat. Just hate sounding like a sex-hungry jerk.


You absolutely need to turn up the heat. You just need to do it with your actions and not your words. By complaining about sex, but continuing to give your wife everything she needs, you come across as weak. You've devalued yourself from her husband to her servant. And women don't like having sex with servants.

And don't worry about coming across as a jerk. First of all, she likes jerks. You said her other two relationships were with jerks. Don't be afraid of being a bit of a jerk sometimes. And really, you won't be a jerk. When a certified nice guy (which you sound like) starts trying to act like a jerk, all he ends up doing is standing up for himself in a respectful way. What's wrong with that?



husband1987 said:


> She does ask every now and then if I think about other girls. I guess it bothers her that I work with young college girls and she says other girls often notice me.


That's the Preselection Effect. Other women are interested in you. That's a display of high value. The primitive part of her brain notices that and actually becomes more attracted to you. The worst thing you can do in this case is insist that other women are not interested in you, and even if they were, you would absolutely never take any interest in them.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Wow, I feel like glass. You people have seen right through me. Your right, I've always put marriage on a pedestal. A do what they want attitude even if it means sacrifice. She had me thinking that if sex is that important then I don't love her. 

Ya'll are right though, this marriage is boring and kind of sucks without sex and passion. Can't imagine forty more years of this.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> Enough is enough. I'm convinced to make a stand. It seems to me from all the books, even MMSL, that the woman will always be in control of sex. All the books are just strategies for men. The only way for a man to get some control is to marry a kinky woman.


I"m not really sure what you mean by this.
Your wife will respond sexually to you if you take the proper actoins. Mainly she has to know that you are steadfast in your needs, there is no wavering, and you are willing to let her step aside if she cannot be an equal partner in the marriage. YOu can't act out of desperatoin and neediness, but out of resolve and confidence.

This does two things 1. Forces her to reassess her actions 2. Turns her on sexually because you are a man with principles and boundaries.

The last thing I will say is you have to realize that inside of her, she is sexual and wants to be sexual. She needs you to draw it out of her. And if you don't, someone will at some point.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> We've had that conversation. She says I'm perfect, I tell her I want a more sexual relationship. She says I'm sorry, ant that is that.
> 
> Enough is enough. I'm convinced to make a stand. It seems to me from all the books, even MMSL, that the woman will always be in control of sex. All the books are just strategies for men. The only way for a man to get some control is to marry a kinky woman.


It should not be about control at all. It needs to be about mutuality. However, both of you have misconceptions and pre-conceived notions that will have to change in order for this mutuality to happen. Believe it or not, that is what marriage is all about - it's not about cruising along happily with nary a problem in sight. It's about trying to navigate together all of the bumps and turns that you get thrown in life - and sometimes it means that YOU need to help take the helm and steer. Congratulations - you are having to learn how to navigate a very big bump in married life. 

And the level of kinkiness is both, at the same time, something that is part of the make-up that is intrinsic to a person and is also the RESPONSE of them to another. YOU can help to open the second door - her response to you - by finding the way to get your wife to respond to you - and all of the menfolk here have given you some good advice on that. Your WIFE will have to be the one willing to open the first door - changing her ideas and attitudes about how she feels about sex.

Oh, and you don't really have to be a jerk. A jerk is someone who could care less about the other's feelings, a jerk is someone who would be in it only for themself and short term gratification. Instead, change your mindset and tell yourself you are not being a jerk, you are being a person with resolve - you are doing it for the betterment of both of you, for the betterment of your marriage. A person of resolve has strength of CHARACTER and MIND, cares about the other person, but has enough foresight and FORTITUDE to keep going when things start to get rough.

Best wishes.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

One way would be to throw the TV and her IPhone away. I swear she is on FaceBook until she falls asleep.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Two things for you H1987:

1 - IPhone / FB - I see a red flag - I'll get to this in a minute:

2 - Get His Needs, Her Needs and 5 Love Languages. Read it with her. Also for yourself, read Married Men Sex Life Primer, No More Mr Nice Guy, and Hold on to your Nutz (these after you've read His Needs, Her Needs)

Ok back to iPhone / FB. Well, now that you mention it, obsession with smart phones and FB are often hallmarks of someone who could possibly having an emotional affair (EA). 

Whats the big deal you might ask? If you read Athol's Married Mens Sex Life Primer, you will find out that Men are wired for Polygamy and women are wired for Hypergamy - which means trading up to a partner that will result in some advantage for her offspring. Not saying your W is doing this, however, Hypergamy means that they can only engage in one relationship at a time emotionally, sexually. Even if its only an "emotional thing" or best friends kinda thing, they become less or not sexually available. 

Now I've brought this up - you mentioned two words that by themselves aren't necessarily bad alone - iPhone and Facebook. Combine that with the fact that it sounds like she's glued to them - there's a high chance that there maybe someone else in the picture. 

Read some of the other posts if you don't believe me. Take my word, an EA will kill your W's desire. Somehow, you need to confirm her actions with both, if you give it a chance. If there is nothing there, then proceed with reading His Needs, Her Needs with her. She needs to understand 2 things: 1 - this is NOT ok, and 2 - you can work together to figure it out.

Read the other books I've mentioned.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> She has said before she thought she would need to have sex more to keep me in the beginning which wasn't true and almost feels like an illusion (not implying it actually was).


You have been given some good advice so far. I would note that if your marriage fails, your wife will be back to having to give sex to some other guy to keep him. Ironic, considering that had she given that sex to you, the marriage would not have failed. Would not be the worst idea in the world to get that point across to her.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Two things for you H1987:
> 
> 1 - IPhone / FB - I see a red flag - I'll get to this in a minute:
> 
> ...


I'll read the books.

As far as FB and the IPhone. I have complete access to both. It is all family and friends, but mostly she uses for marketing her photography business which has consumed her. I have no doubt that she is faithful. She is honest even when I could do with a little less honesty. 

Who isn't consumed with FB these days? 

Personally, I think it is a combination of her working a lot including nights and becoming content with our marriage. Basically, sex isn't a priority for her and she has gotten lazy that regard.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Just sayin'!

I can't even recall all of the threads I've read that start out eerily similar to yours, then when sh*t hits the fan - turns out wifey has been secretive about some FB friend, etc, etc, etc. 

Its good for her to have this part of her life to keep busy. Where its bad - is that it obsesses her to the detriment of the marriage. 

Just thought I'd point it out, just in case.

If you are good with it, then proceed to these books with HER: His Needs, Her Needs. 

You start reading No More Mr Nice Guy on your own. You may want to share with her at some point what you've learned.

Once you are both done with His Needs, Her Needs, proceed with her to 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman. Its possible that you aren't speaking her love language, so she's unwilling to speak yours. Know and understand what hers are (and she vice versa) before going to deep with the thermostat approach mentioned earlier in your posts. Last thing you want to do is totally shut down her love language areas while "cooling the temp" on the relationship. You want to be conversant in hers, as well as she in yours.

Then when you are done with Mr Nice Guy, your choice of MMSLP or Hold on to your NUTZ for reading next.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

If reading through all these and working with your W with the joint books and still no improvement, then you should run your MAP or lower the Thermostat.

It wouldn't be bad to seek some counseling for your W on her aversion to sex. Get her hormones checked at the Doc, make sure they are normal in all areas. Women who are polycystic can have very low desire too. You can usually diagnose a polycystic woman with hormone tests.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Just sayin'!
> 
> I can't even recall all of the threads I've read that start out eerily similar to yours, then when sh*t hits the fan - turns out wifey has been secretive about some FB friend, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the advice.

I know what you mean about the cheating. My ex of many years drew back her affection and bam, she had been cheating on me for a while. Sucks, but at least you can move on. 

The main thing I've learned is that this does seem to be a real problem that can lead to those things. I'll stop taking it lightly. Hopefully, we can turn it around since we are just starting off.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I would not plant seeds with her regarding of a bunch of possible "reasons" why she is not horny.

I would plant seeds in your own mind that there is a sexual woman dying to get out.... and plant seeds within her that sex is normal, natural, fun.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

husband 1987 - my wife of 14 months is on facebook about 2 hrs a day too. I feel we are the same but im a about a year in front of where you are and i have a child.

I all but gave up the nagging about no sex a few months ago. i did bring it up with counssillor last week and we only spoke about it for 2 or 3 minutes which was crap i thought.

With the ex's scenario too, i hear ya.

my previous ex's which last ed about a year each we had sex about 2 times a week and one of them 2 times a day, we were sexually connected but she was a bit silly and wasnt for the future so i left her but sex was the best.

with my wife this is an estimate: year one = 2 times a week
year two - 2 TIMeS A WEEK
year three - once a week, but still sexually happy
year four: once every 2 weeks, wanted more but still satisfied
year five: birth of child - once every 2 months
year six (last year)(got married) maybe 3 times for whole year
this year: only once (and that was a fluke).....very sad i know


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Brendan,
Let me show you how this looks to an outsider.

Either:
You got steadily deprioritized. Instead of asserting yourself you conveyed by: having a child and getting married that you were ok with being deprioritized. 

OR

Her story might look like this:
As I steadily cut back on sex I figured that he would realize that many of his behaviors outside/and inside the bedroom were a turn off. He didn't make that much effort to understand what turned me on or if he did understand he chose not to act on it. And part of it was that he wasn't willing to call "foul" and stick up for himself when I treated him badly. I wanted him to show me that HE felt he was worthy of being treated well. But aside from complaining about it now and then (a total turn off) he didn't DO anything to show me that he had boundaries. 





brendan said:


> husband 1987 - my wife of 14 months is on facebook about 2 hrs a day too. I feel we are the same but im a about a year in front of where you are and i have a child.
> 
> I all but gave up the nagging about no sex a few months ago. i did bring it up with counssillor last week and we only spoke about it for 2 or 3 minutes which was crap i thought.
> 
> ...


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

MEM11363 - Could there be other possiblities? 

Like some level depression combined with different views on what sex means? I know many women to whom sex is the icing on the cake (=which happens when the stars align and the emotional connection is there and conditions are perfect). Not something that they necessarily crave on regular bases but something that happens when the time is right. And from that perspective it could be hard to understand why someone wants sex regularily when you don't want it or feel ready for it. The understanding I've gotten from depression is that it makes you turn inward and makes connecting emotionally more difficult. If you have trouble connecting and have very different views on sex, it could be hard to understand why your partner wants sex when you don't. And to some it might seem like he/she wants to use me for his/her pleasure and disregards my feelings totally. That'd mean there's a situation where both see the other as the bad guy (depressed spouse: he/she just wants to use me as a wanking tool / other spouse: she/he doesn't care for my feelings and is hurting me deeply etc.). 

What do you think?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Rainbow_Dazed said:


> MEM11363 - Could there be other possiblities?
> 
> Like some level depression combined with different views on what sex means?


Anything is possible. But we're talking about couples that started with healthy sexual relationships where the wives steadily withdrew sex until the husbands were sex starved.

If a woman views sex as something to be enjoyed, or at least tolerated, a few times a year, then that woman probably won't engage in sex several times a week when she starts dating a man.

The most likely scenario in a sexless marriage is that, over time, the husband has adopted behaviors that aren't attractive to the wife, and the wife has deprioritized the husband and his needs. I think people who don't recognize those cold, hard facts are just kidding themselves by thinking that sex can only happen when conditions are perfect. The fact is that sex doesn't just happen. Two imperfect people, living imperfect lives, make it happen. There is no such thing as the perfect scenario for sex. There will always be a chore that could be done instead. There will always be another person you could be tending to instead of your spouse. But people who prioritize each other put that aside and demonstrate their love and commitment to each other on a regular basis.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Rainbow,
As far as the original poster goes - his W shows no signs of depression at all. As his commitment to her increased, the effort she made to bond with him through sex steadily decreased. 
They got engaged - sex life rapidly faded. 
They got married - sex life basically all but stopped

As for the scenario you describe below I will provide my own context. If I wanted to demonize my W in a parallel manner I could say "all she wants is my financial support". That would be untrue, unfair and frankly a very ugly thing to say. Instead I will make this observation which I know to be true. My W loves me because I am:
- Kind and honest
- Fair and considerate
- Smart and funny
- Upbeat and good company
- Generous and patient

It is ALSO true that my W strongly wanted to be a stay at home mom. She needed for me to be hard working and resourceful enough to provide for us and our children. That was not "optional", it was a requirement she had. She isn't spoiled or lazy. She isn't into fancy clothes or expensive jewelry. She wanted to have a nice house and reliable/relatively new cars. Fine by me. I made a major effort and provided a nice life without her having any financial stress.

In turn I love my W because for an almost identical list of qualities I listed above. Plus a bunch more. AND it is also true that if her approach to sex had been - "it isn't that important to me, so it isn't going to happen unless the stars align" - we would never have gotten married. If she had pretended to like sex before marriage and then after marriage suddenly decided that she didn't care that it is the most important way for ME to feel loved, we would be friendly ex's at this point. 

As for the type of person you describe below, I have a simple view. If their behavior before marriage and after marriage is consistent, that is perfectly fine. If however - to extend the analogy - I had waited until after we had a child or two and then said "I don't feel like wearing all the financial stress - you need to find a good paying job and earn half the money for our family - my W would have been stressed, miserable AND quite rightly have felt tricked. I would never have done that to her. It just isn't right. I knew what was important to her when we got married. If I didn't plan to stay the course, I would have had no business marrying her. 

I will leave you with one last thought. My W's raw sex drive is MUCH lower than mine. Always has been. What has driven our frequent, wonderful and beautiful sex life from day one - now going on 22 years - was HER desire to be a great W and make sure that I FEEL loved by her, just as SHE feels loved by me. 

I hope I answered your question. 




Rainbow_Dazed said:


> MEM11363 - Could there be other possiblities?
> 
> Like some level depression combined with different views on what sex means? I know many women to whom sex is the icing on the cake (=which happens when the stars align and the emotional connection is there and conditions are perfect). Not something that they necessarily crave on regular bases but something that happens when the time is right. And from that perspective it could be hard to understand why someone wants sex regularily when you don't want it or feel ready for it. The understanding I've gotten from depression is that it makes you turn inward and makes connecting emotionally more difficult. If you have trouble connecting and have very different views on sex, it could be hard to understand why your partner wants sex when you don't. And to some it might seem like he/she wants to use me for his/her pleasure and disregards my feelings totally. That'd mean there's a situation where both see the other as the bad guy (depressed spouse: he/she just wants to use me as a wanking tool / other spouse: she/he doesn't care for my feelings and is hurting me deeply etc.).
> 
> What do you think?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Rainbow,
> As far as the original poster goes - his W shows no signs of depression at all. As his commitment to her increased, the effort she made to bond with him through sex steadily decreased.
> They got engaged - sex life rapidly faded.
> They got married - sex life basically all but stopped.


A lot of people have said how the husband may be exhibiting unattractive behaviours that result in the wife deprioritising sex with him so he will stop doing them.

To a first estimate the "unattractive behaviours" seem to be getting engaged and getting married...

I know correlation isn't causation, but on the face of it...:scratchhead:


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

in my case, no sex in more or less a year. as she says she has no libido.

to satisfy her husband, shouldnt she at least, gve hanjobs or kissing in bed????

when she wasnt in the mood for sex, 2/3 years ago, we used to masturbate eachother to climax and she loved it, now its just nothing, nothing sexual at all.

id take a handjob and be happy with no sex these days....im going to settle for christmas reasons but after christmas thigns hae to change.


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## Rainbow_Dazed (Sep 28, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Rainbow,
> As far as the original poster goes - his W shows no signs of depression at all. As his commitment to her increased, the effort she made to bond with him through sex steadily decreased.
> They got engaged - sex life rapidly faded.
> They got married - sex life basically all but stopped
> ...


Thank you for your reply. I really enjoy reading your posts and admire the relationship you have with your wife. It seems that you are both very together as human beings, and aware of what you want in life and that is something I admire very much. 

First, I must clarify that my response was meant to your response to brendan - not to the OP. 

I think that for some people understanding unravels more slowly and through experience. I could imagine there being many couples who haven't communicated as openly as you did before getting married. Maybe interpertations were made from both sides aswell (like: "at the moment we are having sex n times a month, she/he must like sex and wishes us to have sex n times always" vs. "right now we are having sex n times n times a month, which is normal at the start of the relationship but fades with time - which is also normal"). 

I don't think there's always or even often ill will from either party involved when the relationship doesn't work. More than anything I at the time think that when there is trouble, both parties are still working on learning skills that would've been good to know before getting married. And I imagine that with the current divorce rates, that's the fate for a lot of people. 

I believe that most people want good things in life for themselves. Everyone just does not have the tools to constructively bring those things to their lives (=to get good stuff, you have to give out good stuff). Atleast I'm still working on that. A lot.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

To the OP, let me explain this to you very carefully. More than likely, this is as good as its going to get sex wise, shame part is that it usually doesn't happen this early in a marriage, especially at your age. Its usually early to mid 30's when this starts. Anyway, you have 1 of 2 things to do. Either hang in there, appreciate the other traits your wife has.. .ie her love for you, her kindness, her nurturing and live with little to no sex. Or leave now while you don't have any kids. Waiting for things to get "better" translate to more years of bitterness, kids and basically putting yourself in a position where its too late to leave. 

You say u don't think she's having anysort of affair, they could be true. But alot of guys once said..."My wife would never..." and then you find out another man is the reason why you aren't getting any lovin in the sack. Good Luck.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

We had a very straightforward conversation about it last night. She broke down crying and said she realizes that the situation isn't right and is afraid something is wrong with her. She said she would try her best to do more and figure out why her sex drive is gone. 

Maybe this will result in real change. I hope.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

How'd it come about?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

IF your W is committed to you, and considers you a priority then the Birth Control pills will go in the garbage tomorrow. That action shows a first step in the right direction. If she will NOT do that, then you need to stop reassuring her constantly that you love her unconditionally. And you need to lower the thermostat quickly and firmly. That means you stop saying ILY. When SHE says "ILY", your best response is a very calm, low key reply that goes like this: "For now, I need you to stop saying you love me, and actually show me that I am a high priority to you. Until you can do that, I am not going to continue to pretend that everything is ok by saying ILY. Because talk is cheap and I am very disappointed in the way you are behaving". 

And then be prepared for tears, threats, cold anger or whatever else she throws at you. Be silent and go on about your life and see if she comes to her senses. Because if she WON'T discontinue the pill, she really doesn't care about how you feel no matter what she actually SAYS. 




husband1987 said:


> We had a very straightforward conversation about it last night. She broke down crying and said she realizes that the situation isn't right and is afraid something is wrong with her. She said she would try her best to do more and figure out why her sex drive is gone.
> 
> Maybe this will result in real change. I hope.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Well, we had great sex last night so we will see. But, I know it will take a lot of work to get back to where we were.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife has to give herself an excuse to have sex.
This is why it's important for you not to constantly reassure her that she's a great wife. She has to fear that you will leave if she is not sexual.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> Maybe this will result in real change. I hope.


I hope so too. And the sex last night is a good indicator. But you should continue to read this board. It is full of men who reach a critical point, have a serious conversation with their wives, the sex improves for a time, and then steadily declines back to the critical point. This can go on for years if you let it.

For now, take your wife at her word, but make sure her actions match her words. And continue your self-improvement to better attract her. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

H1987: Here's a thread for you to check out where the gentleman is having a similar problem to yours. The advice that was given, and that he has taken to heart is working for him so far. I think it would do wonders for you too. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...y-wife-says-i-am-controlling-needs-space.html


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## teddybear12 (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm in a similar situation as you are... I'm 23, and am in a sexless marriage. And the sex that we do have feels empty because I know she is not enjoying it. Our first year together we had sex several times a day. After getting engaged a year into our relationship, she tells me that she doesn't enjoy sex at all. I went with it thinking that it would one day resolve itself. 4 years later, it's only declined. It is seriously hurting our relationship and will likely end in divorce. I love her to death and I know that she loves me but a marriage without sex/affection is not a marriage but a friendship. 

You really need to face this issue head on and work things out NOW. Because if you don't, it will end with you divorcing each other several years down the road. My best advice is to go to a psychiatrist. My university has free counseling services and it has helped a lot, yours will likely have one too... specifically ask for a psychiatrist, there is a major difference between a marriage counselor and a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist has to go through medical school and then a 4 year residency to become a psychiatrist. A marriage counselor is a graduates degree program.

Another thing... Don't do anything that you will regret several years down the road. If you keep badgering her about sex, she will associate sex with something that is unpleasant and it will only make things worse(speaking with experience here). The best thing you can do is show your support and love for her to make this change in your relationship TOGETHER. But seriously, stop playing the blame game, it won't lead anywhere good.


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## teddybear12 (Dec 15, 2011)

Hicks said:


> Your wife has to give herself an excuse to have sex.
> This is why it's important for you not to constantly reassure her that she's a great wife. She has to fear that you will leave if she is not sexual.


I don't think that I agree with your view point... If his wife doesn't feel secure in their relationship, it will most likely make her withdraw even more. 

Having said that, she does need to understand that a sexless marriage is not ok and needs to be worked on. Like I said the best way to approach this is to go to a psychiatrist so that it can be mediated.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

You could also stop beating yourself up. Some people marry psychopaths who want to watch you suffer and squirm for the hell of it. Back of the envelope I'd say one out of seven or eight.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Teddy,
This isn't a communication issue. She understands the situation perfectly. Nothing WILL change unless she feels the marriage is in jeopardy. That is spimply how this works. The reason you are sexless is that you don't grasp that.


TE=teddybear12;518859]I don't think that I agree with your view point... If his wife doesn't feel secure in their relationship, it will most likely make her withdraw even more. 

Having said that, she does need to understand that a sexless marriage is not ok and needs to be worked on. Like I said the best way to approach this is to go to a psychiatrist so that it can be mediated.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

RE: "Well, we had great sex last night so we will see. But, I know it will take a lot of work to get back to where we were." It sounds like where you "were" is her being motivated to do what she needed to attract and keep you - consciously or instinctual. Indeed, you are there now. It will be your challenge to keep her interest, thoughts and motivations moving in that direction - IF it is your desire to remain with a woman of her disposition. You may want to give that some thought - relative to her expressed views of what men only want, apparently said with at least some discount of a like of sex on her part. She may have deep issues that will make this more than a hormonal or temperature fix. A couple of things that I don't think have been mentioned: 1) Get her off the pills to not only address possible hormonal issues, but also put you MORE in control of the ties of the relationship. She could decide to get pregnant - to keep you. That would be "easy," wouldn't it? 2) Sounds like her previous relationships were with Alphas. You are the sane and sensible Beta she needs, but you are way too Beta for your own sexual good. In fact, YOU are more control than you think, with YOU being able to help her "decide" if she is going to get pregnant, have an affair with an Alpha, or grow up to be YOUR wife and have better sex to keep her husband. Get more Alpha, turn up the heat, do a 180 . . . whatever. But, DON'T keep being so nice!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> I agree with you there. I've told her the same thing. Our couple friends got off BC and talked with her about it because their sex lives improved. No go for her. It's not that she wouldn't do the things mentioned, she just doesn't think sex is important enough to do them. I would probably have to threaten divorce which I wouldn't do.
> 
> What I have noticed is that she is nicest girl I've ever been with and the most sane. With that said, the crazies were all very active.
> *Is that a tradeoff for men.*


No it does not have to be. I know quite a few very nice, loyal, loving women.. myself included who are 'very active' and love sex as much as our husbands. IMHO, your wife's attitude is down right mean. 

Too bad there is no one in your life... a woman she respects... who can give her the scoop on this. If she keeps it up she will very likely lose you in the end. You are very likely to fall out of love with her as our needs are not met.

There is a very good book, "His Needs, Her Needs" by Dr. Harley that might help. If the two of you read it and work through it, it could change things. You really do need to be up front with her about how disappointed you are and how hurt you are. If you are not then you are not being honest with her and giving her the chance to change and meet your needs.


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## teddybear12 (Dec 15, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Teddy,
> This isn't a communication issue. She understands the situation perfectly. Nothing WILL change unless she feels the marriage is in jeopardy. That is spimply how this works. The reason you are sexless is that you don't grasp that.


I disagree again... my marriage is actually in jeopardy and it is because of the way I handled the situation that got me to this point. I didn't show her support or love, I did the exact opposite and badgered her about sex all the time. This lead to resentment and for her to withdraw even more. Speaking from experience.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

teddybear12 said:


> I disagree again... my marriage is actually in jeopardy and it is because of the way I handled the situation that got me to this point. I didn't show her support or love, I did the exact opposite and badgered her about sex all the time. This lead to resentment and for her to withdraw even more. Speaking from experience.


Teddy,

You're looking at apples and oranges here. In your case, you have said that you physically abused your wife. In cases of abuse, yes, the abused spouse will have trouble feeling secure and trusting the other spouse.

But that's not what many, or most, women in sexless marriages experience. They feel insecure because their husband is too nice and doesn't have boundaries. If their husbands are easily pushed around by their wives, then how can they deal with external forces more powerful?

So these average men in sexless marriages need to stand up to their wives and enforce boundaries in their marriage. That will give their wives respect for them, which will increase attraction, which will lead to more sex.

So the actions of boundary enforcement are much more effective in most sexless marriages than one more conversation or visiting a psychiatrist for medication.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> I'll read and prepare for harder times. Brendan, your right, thoughts do enter your mind, especially when you are young and work around lots of other girls your age that actually seem to notice you. It is nice to be checked out when you are killing yourself to be in shape for someone who never seems to notice.


Let her know about these women as casually as you can in conversation.

Start talking about how interesting one of them is, about how she likes to be around you, about how funny, witty, clever, & cute she is.

Nothing forces my wife to step up like the threat of another woman taking my interest.

Nothing.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> It seems to me from all the books, even MMSL, that the woman will always be in control of sex. All the books are just strategies for men. The only way for a man to get some control is to marry a kinky woman.


This isn`t really true.

It does happen more often than not but a man either allows his woman to control his sexuality or he takes control of it himself.

Do not ever allow any woman to make you believe this.

How does your wife control your sex?
Can she really?

You say there are other women interested in you.
Could you sleep with them?
Let her know it could happen.

She needs to value you more and she has no motivation to do so at the present time.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is exactly and 100 percent true and sometimes needs to be directly mentioned. 

The best delivery style (IMO) goes like this:
- Clearly you don't like having sex with me
- Far worse, you seem unwilling to tell me why, so that we can improve it
- It isn't fair for us to put all this pressure on you to do something you really don't want to do
- So until we decide otherwise, all the pressure is off, as I will be getting my sexual entertainment outside the marriage

And then shut up. I mean it. Don't say another word. Expect outrage and fury. Just keep repeating "this is all about you, removing the guilt you feel for being an incomplete wife. And the tension between us about our very poor sex life".

And eventually you will get the ultimatum - if you do that I will divorce you. And at that moment you make your last point:
"So you don't think sex is not important in a marriage, and are comfortable not having it open ended". But suddenly if I am doing it with someone else it becomes SO IMPORTANT to you, that you are ready to divorce. 

And then shut up again. And no matter what she says reply with "I disagree". Finish it at the very end with: "I won't bring anyone back to the house". 










tacoma said:


> This isn`t really true.
> 
> It does happen more often than not but a man either allows his woman to control his sexuality or he takes control of it himself.
> 
> ...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

The problem with brinksmanship is that rarely does the person who starts it have any serious intent of following through. In more than a few cases were the man to confront his wife with a "Screw me or I'm screwing someone else" he'd be met with badly packed suitcase and her angry brothers tossing you out the door. And then she gets all your stuff. 

People who don't have sex don't want sex. At least not with you. Probably not with anyone, but at the least not with you. All the finely tuned Amazon book-worthy nuanced psychobabble or pas de deux whilst walking the knife's edge of compassionate hand holding the friend zone.....are complete f^cking bullsh^t.

I truly do not understand the point of 'daring' someone. As if what? They didn't know they had genitals? It simply never occurred to them that lovemaking was something normal couples do? Daring someone into psychically kicking them in the head to get them to wake the hell up is stupid. Why? Because all they have to do is comply with your demands for a very short time. And they know that if they can do that for a few weeks or months, they can get away with going back to sexless marriage soon enough. And then what? You're a one-trick pony and she (or he) would laugh at you if you tried the same thing. You clearly didn't leave the last time and all they had to do was keep you happy for a few weeks. My recommendation would be, if you're going to threaten, don't. Just bolt. Separate. It won't be a shock to your partner. Believe me, when you're gone either they'll be happy or they'll be miserable they can't torture you any more. In either case, have an exit strategy and don't suddenly go off and move w/o any planning.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Runs,
From your own posts your wife changed steadily from nice/normal to what she is today - an aggressive, mean spirited bully.

Forget about sex. You allowed her to morph into this monster by choosing to avoid conflict at all costs.

And i would take steep odds that you could afford to live decently even with the cost of divorce.

I hope some day you tear up your "victim" card.



OTE=Runs like Dog;524760]The problem with brinksmanship is that rarely does the person who starts it have any serious intent of following through. In more than a few cases were the man to confront his wife with a "Screw me or I'm screwing someone else" he'd be met with badly packed suitcase and her angry brothers tossing you out the door. And then she gets all your stuff. 

People who don't have sex don't want sex. At least not with you. Probably not with anyone, but at the least not with you. All the finely tuned Amazon book-worthy nuanced psychobabble or pas de deux whilst walking the knife's edge of compassionate hand holding the friend zone.....are complete f^cking bullsh^t.

I truly do not understand the point of 'daring' someone. As if what? They didn't know they had genitals? It simply never occurred to them that lovemaking was something normal couples do? Daring someone into psychically kicking them in the head to get them to wake the hell up is stupid. Why? Because all they have to do is comply with your demands for a very short time. And they know that if they can do that for a few weeks or months, they can get away with going back to sexless marriage soon enough. And then what? You're a one-trick pony and she (or he) would laugh at you if you tried the same thing. You clearly didn't leave the last time and all they had to do was keep you happy for a few weeks. My recommendation would be, if you're going to threaten, don't. Just bolt. Separate. It won't be a shock to your partner. Believe me, when you're gone either they'll be happy or they'll be miserable they can't torture you any more. In either case, have an exit strategy and don't suddenly go off and move w/o any planning.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Like I said, I have an exit strategy. It's a delicate matter and will take about 20 months or so to pull off.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Truly happy for you.




Runs like Dog said:


> Like I said, I have an exit strategy. It's a delicate matter and will take about 20 months or so to pull off.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## might_be_committed (Dec 25, 2011)

I love all the advice telling you to "go read these 9 books" and then spend a few months beefing up your sex appeal so your wife will all of a sudden realize what a MAN she has. The dude didn't log onto this site to read a damn book. He wants to get laid. Period. Reading books doesn't get you laid dude. Playboy is about the closest thing, and it's not really a book, and doesn't actually get you laid.
I married really young, just like you, and am in a freakishly similar situation...only 15 or so years further into the marriage. I've tried all the **** you've tried. I even had a couple of affairs, when I figured that was the only way I was ever gonna get any. She stuck around even after finding out, and both of us are doggedly committed to making it work if only for the kids.
You aren't gonna change her, bro. It just doesn't happen. No amount of working out or earning more money, or talking to a counselor until you're blue in the face is going to change the situation. You sound committed to the girl. So if you want sex, then go have it. The only difficult part is avoiding the emotional **** that eventually comes along with any prolonged affair. You just have to know when to cut the cord.
Marriage is a MOFO, dude. Go find a hobby that doesn't include sitting on the internet all day whining about how bad your life with your ice-princess is. Best of luck.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

MEM,

I have always respected Big Bad Wolf's and your opinion on these types of situations but I do think Runs Like a Dog has a point and to placate you, I'll reference a Real Man's Man for you -

The Duke

John Wayne

Don't dare someone.

"When you go for your gun, you had better intend to use it."

So, to me, with regards to the original poster, if he's going to threaten divorce, he had better have his gun loaded (lawyer picked out and his next moves plotted).

I wouldn't threaten this at all or bluff, hoping she won't call his bluff.

You either mean it or you don't.

Take it from someone who's actually pulled the trigger, Guys. Take it from someone who's had the Showdown at High Noon.

Because unless you have killed a marriage over this issue, you don't know what it's like. . .

Merry Christmas.

Pilgrim.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Scanner,
My views on this are different now than when I started 4-5 years ago. 

I absolutely would (and HAVE) done a face down over being treated with respect. I would end a marriage over that. 

As for a somewhat challenged sex life - as long as both partners are making a good faith effort that is enough. You mention a sexless marriage for almost a decade before you got divorced. And it sounds like your xW deprioritized you fairly quickly. In hindsight would you do anything different? Are you glad you got divorced?

As for bluffing I agree 100 percent. Don't bluff. Fwiw many badly behaved spouses would be reasonable if you called their bluff quickly. Letting Inge drag on and on kills respect. It is very hard to convince someone - I am not gng to take a 12th year of this....




QUOTE=Scannerguard;527167]MEM,

I have always respected Big Bad Wolf's and your opinion on these types of situations but I do think Runs Like a Dog has a point and to placate you, I'll reference a Real Man's Man for you -

The Duke

John Wayne

Don't dare someone.

"When you go for your gun, you had better intend to use it."

So, to me, with regards to the original poster, if he's going to threaten divorce, he had better have his gun loaded (lawyer picked out and his next moves plotted).

I wouldn't threaten this at all or bluff, hoping she won't call his bluff.

You either mean it or you don't.

Take it from someone who's actually pulled the trigger, Guys. Take it from someone who's had the Showdown at High Noon.

Because unless you have killed a marriage over this issue, you don't know what it's like. . .

Merry Christmas.

Pilgrim.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

MEM, I think you've got good advice, the one thing to remember is that you have a wife with an equal stake in the game. She's a great lady, from what you've written. And emotional mature and willing to communicate. Many other guys on this site don't have that. 

Really all this does come down to willingness to walk. Which REALLY means, the only sensible strategy for a man is that you don't get too attached, don't let yourself feel too much. Because if you do, you're f#cked.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

might_be_committed said:


> I love all the advice telling you to "go read these 9 books" and then spend a few months beefing up your sex appeal so your wife will all of a sudden realize what a MAN she has. The dude didn't log onto this site to read a damn book. He wants to get laid.


Unfortunately for the OP, and for you, there is no magic word, phrase, or pill you can take to get more sex from your wife. It's a process that can be successful, or unsuccessful. I understand that magic is more attractive than changing yourself. It's just not realistic.



might_be_committed said:


> I married really young, just like you, and am in a freakishly similar situation...only 15 or so years further into the marriage. I've tried all the **** you've tried. I even had a couple of affairs, when I figured that was the only way I was ever gonna get any. She stuck around even after finding out, and both of us are doggedly committed to making it work if only for the kids.
> You aren't gonna change her, bro. It just doesn't happen. No amount of working out or earning more money, or talking to a counselor until you're blue in the face is going to change the situation. You sound committed to the girl. So if you want sex, then go have it. The only difficult part is avoiding the emotional **** that eventually comes along with any prolonged affair. You just have to know when to cut the cord.
> Marriage is a MOFO, dude. Go find a hobby that doesn't include sitting on the internet all day whining about how bad your life with your ice-princess is. Best of luck.


Spectacularly bad advice. It may, or may not, be possible for the OP to improve his marriage and get sex from his wife. But the OP can certainly make it worse by giving up and having an affair.

I agree that reading books and investigating the wants and needs of women can be tedious. But it's sometimes necessary to have a good marriage. If you're unwilling to do the work necessary to have a good marriage, then you have no right to go on a marriage forum and denigrate others who are doing that work.


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

Husband1987

I would suggest counseling. Let her know how you feel if seperation or divorce is on the table.

She has to look at the big picture here. You are 24 years old, very young. Can you picture yourself going through this agony for the next 50+ years.

It is very important for her to know your expectations. It is very important to talk to her about this.

Good luck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SS,
I am in love with my W. totally crazy about her. Envy once in a while I think about that and I feel afraid. Afraid of how much power she has in my life. 

Mostly I try to be a great partner. A fun, playful, honest, loving, supportive partner. So my main protection is not my willingness to have conflict. Any fool can get into an argument. My main protection is and always has been that I am not really replaceable. And in truth neither is she. But if we ever got into a "sliding into the abyss" conflict my message would be: I feel really sorry for you because screwed up as my life without you will be, yours is going to be vastly more screwed up. 

I hate playing chicken - absolutely hate it. But when it feels necessary I do it. I really really wish my W did not find my "inner sociopath" quite so appealing. Frankly I cannot stand him. I only let him loose when she has completely lost her mind.




OTE=seeking sanity;527199]MEM, I think you've got good advice, the one thing to remember is that you have a wife with an equal stake in the game. She's a great lady, from what you've written. And emotional mature and willing to communicate. Many other guys on this site don't have that. 

Really all this does come down to willingness to walk. Which REALLY means, the only sensible strategy for a man is that you don't get too attached, don't let yourself feel too much. Because if you do, you're f#cked.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> Scanner,
> My views on this are different now than when I started 4-5 years ago.
> 
> I absolutely would (and HAVE) done a face down over being treated with respect. I would end a marriage over that.
> ...


Ah, MEM,

You're a gentleman and a scholar. Yes, you can't argue with that logic - if both parties are making a good faith effort, than that's all you can ask.

I am not sure if this is the thread for it, but yes, I would have had the showdown long before I did. . .I let it drag on too long, blaming myself.

That "self-talk" the original poster speaks of is powerful. My ex-wife called me shallow (or made me feel that way) also for wanting sex. . .even told me "That's not a reason you get married."When someone you love and respect says that, you start to entertain it, like "Well, maybe she has a point, maybe I AM being shallow." It can sound totally silly to the forum, but I guess you have to be living it to understand how 10 years could elapse, trying to demonstrate loyalty.


Now, am I glad I got divorced? Well, you have never been divorced. . .but it's like asking someone with any morals, "Are you glad you killed that Japanese soldier in WWII?" or asking John Wayne if he was glad he had a showdown with Wild Bill. "Glad" just isn't the right word. Many days I have regrets, sadness, loss, and it's been 16 months.

To borrow a phrase from The Duke, "Sometimes a man has gotta do. . .what a man's gotta do."

So no. . ."glad" isn't the right word. But I have reached a level of peace with it.

Finally, my "high noon" came around 40 years old and I said, "I went through my 30's with a sexless marriage. I will not go through my 40's with that." 

And then. . .I drew.

There are lots of other regrets. . .I have come to "own" some things that I did, and I did alone, to contribute the demise of the marriage. But this thread isn't about me. . .and I dont' want to digress.

I do beleive in "manning up" as you have preached and the philosophy definitely, DEFINITELY has it's place here, I just want the listeners here to be real careful about bluffing.

If it's really been a year since sex and she's refusing. . .then I think it's time to suit up. . .showdown is coming. . .and if she says, "Draw!", I want him really ready for it. Otherwise, don't call her out onto the street.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Even after a year,which I personally think is too long, this whole conversation should be focused on the "LD" spouse. And the basic theme goes:
- clearly you don't like sex and are continuing to choose not to say why which is sad. We are going to take all the pressure off you and I will find a playmate outside the marriage. 

And any static you get is handled by"what, you expect me to remain celibate, why"?

This forces your partner to decide if sex is worthkillingthe marriage over. This way you aren't the bad guy/gal


OTE=Scannerguard;527778]Ah, MEM,

You're a gentleman and a scholar. Yes, you can't argue with that logic - if both parties are making a good faith effort, than that's all you can ask.

I am not sure if this is the thread for it, but yes, I would have had the showdown long before I did. . .I let it drag on too long, blaming myself.

That "self-talk" the original poster speaks of is powerful. My ex-wife called me shallow (or made me feel that way) also for wanting sex. . .even told me "That's not a reason you get married."When someone you love and respect says that, you start to entertain it, like "Well, maybe she has a point, maybe I AM being shallow." It can sound totally silly to the forum, but I guess you have to be living it to understand how 10 years could elapse, trying to demonstrate loyalty.


Now, am I glad I got divorced? Well, you have never been divorced. . .but it's like asking someone with any morals, "Are you glad you killed that Japanese soldier in WWII?" or asking John Wayne if he was glad he had a showdown with Wild Bill. "Glad" just isn't the right word. Many days I have regrets, sadness, loss, and it's been 16 months.

To borrow a phrase from The Duke, "Sometimes a man has gotta do. . .what a man's gotta do."

So no. . ."glad" isn't the right word. But I have reached a level of peace with it.

Finally, my "high noon" came around 40 years old and I said, "I went through my 30's with a sexless marriage. I will not go through my 40's with that." 

And then. . .I drew.

There are lots of other regrets. . .I have come to "own" some things that I did, and I did alone, to contribute the demise of the marriage. But this thread isn't about me. . .and I dont' want to digress.

I do beleive in "manning up" as you have preached and the philosophy definitely, DEFINITELY has it's place here, I just want the listeners here to be real careful about bluffing.

If it's really been a year since sex and she's refusing. . .then I think it's time to suit up. . .showdown is coming. . .and if she says, "Draw!", I want him really ready for it. Otherwise, don't call her out onto the street.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

It's okay. . .in the end, I don't mind being the bad guy. The villian with the black hat.


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## tjohnson (Mar 10, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> Because marriage really isn't about sex in my opinion. However, I didn't know how hard it would be to live without a nice sex life. My tone may change in time. But no, I do not think it is fair. I just keep telling myself that there is a legitimate reason (stress, hormones) that will change. I'm probably being naive.
> 
> Maybe I should turn up the heat. Just hate sounding like a sex-hungry jerk. She does ask every now and then if I think about other girls. I guess it bothers her that I work with young college girls and she says other girls often notice me.


See this is the messed up thing that witholding women do. they assign a moral judgement on men by saying: 

is that all you care about?
Do you think with your [email protected]#?
I am tired

and yes that is what we men think about!! why do we feel inclined to make apologies about it. Do we critisize our wive's hormonal cycles or things that make them women? 

Essentially men's feelings are dismissed in this regard. Even you are discounting them by refering to your self as a "self-hungry jerk". I mean WTF dude You said you indicated once every month and a half. I believe that is clinically considered a sexless. Let's not forget that your wife admitted to providing sex before marriage "to keep you interested". This also kept you from leaving. I am not saying it was intentional but, still. So she is no longer motivated any more. You need to call her out on this and make the statement/question. So you are no longer motivated to to this for me anymore. 

I agree with enchanted and others. Unless you shake things up...

I also read allot about men saying sex makes them "feel close to their wife...." I mean yes this is true but, i make no bones about my need to "release" If my wife is not interested in sex i make it clear i am having it on my own. It makes her feel like a bad wife and it works to some degree. 

I do agree you should consider BC's roll in this. I mean if you aren't getin' any she won't get pregnant anyway. 

If you are waiting for the midlife rise in her drive remember it may NEVER come. Many men have married thinking things will get better and it will not?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Scanner,
We both set some core expectations with each other prior to marriage. I would have expected her to divorce me if after marrying I had done some major take away and then attacked HER for being unhappy. I cringe at the thought. What a hateful thing to do. 

As many of you have pointed out my W has a conscience and is focused on being a good partner. While she was that way from the start it is also true that I reinforced the idea that I deserve to be treated well all along the way. 



OTE=Scannerguard;528012]It's okay. . .in the end, I don't mind being the bad guy. The villian with the black hat. [/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sparkly (Nov 2, 2012)

You do not sound like a sex hungry jerk. It is completely normal and expected to feel the way you feel. I am the same age as you, I've been married a little over a year, and I'm in the same boat as you. It feels harder, because I am the wife, and friends joke that after marriage women withhold sex. In my case, my husband is withholding sex. I've brought up the issue to him many times, which breaks my heart. Nothing changes. To be clear, I'm a highly attractive women. People stop my in the street to tell me so. Women, men, all say how beautiful and stunning I am. their opinions do not matter, It hurts, because it makes me think, these people would KILL to have me, and he has me, and doesn't appreciate it. I just want my husband to want me. I know he loves me, and gives me attention, but I want to have sex with my husband! Even, knowing how attractive I am, makes it harder. He claims it is work, and things will slow down, but they will not. I own my own company, and I'm very busy as well, but I think it is important to make time for intimacy. I even wear sexy lingerie. I'll even try to get him in the mood, only to be rejected and feel AWFUL, and cry when I am alone! We only have sex when he wants to, during the time of day that he wants to. Which comes out to about once a month. I thought men needed sex? He comes home every day around 5, and leaves for work every morning around 6. We spend all weekends and nights together, so I do not think he is having an affair, but sometimes my mind wonders. 

I just thought it may help for you to know a woman is in the same hurtful boat as you, and I too have no idea how to solve it. It is horrible when the person you love most in the world, rejects you in that way. Especially when you are attractive, smart, and loving. What gives?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sparkly said:


> You do not sound like a sex hungry jerk. It is completely normal and expected to feel the way you feel. I am the same age as you, I've been married a little over a year, and I'm in the same boat as you. It feels harder, because I am the wife, and friends joke that after marriage women withhold sex. In my case, my husband is withholding sex. I've brought up the issue to him many times, which breaks my heart. Nothing changes. To be clear, I'm a highly attractive women. People stop my in the street to tell me so. Women, men, all say how beautiful and stunning I am. their opinions do not matter, It hurts, because it makes me think, these people would KILL to have me, and he has me, and doesn't appreciate it. I just want my husband to want me. I know he loves me, and gives me attention, but I want to have sex with my husband! Even, knowing how attractive I am, makes it harder. He claims it is work, and things will slow down, but they will not. I own my own company, and I'm very busy as well, but I think it is important to make time for intimacy. I even wear sexy lingerie. I'll even try to get him in the mood, only to be rejected and feel AWFUL, and cry when I am alone! We only have sex when he wants to, during the time of day that he wants to. Which comes out to about once a month. I thought men needed sex? He comes home every day around 5, and leaves for work every morning around 6. We spend all weekends and nights together, so I do not think he is having an affair, but sometimes my mind wonders.
> 
> I just thought it may help for you to know a woman is in the same hurtful boat as you, and I too have no idea how to solve it. It is horrible when the person you love most in the world, rejects you in that way. Especially when you are attractive, smart, and loving. What gives?


He's home at 5 every night? Then how can he be over stressed?

Once a month is considered a sexless marriage. My suggestion is that you tell him that you will not live this way. Have him get his hormone levels checked. If he does not have low hormones then it's emotional. Generally when a man withholds sex it's becuase he's angry. It's a passive-agressive way of punishing the wife. So if his hormones are ok the two of you really need to go to MC.

If things do not improve divorcing him a reasonable thing to do. You do not want to go through life feeling the serious rejection that you are feeling. It will slowly sap you of self esteem. I knew.. been there, done that.


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## Sparkly (Nov 2, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> He's home at 5 every night? Then how can he be over stressed?
> 
> Once a month is considered a sexless marriage. My suggestion is that you tell him that you will not live this way. Have him get his hormone levels checked. If he does not have low hormones then it's emotional. Generally when a man withholds sex it's becuase he's angry. It's a passive-agressive way of punishing the wife. So if his hormones are ok the two of you really need to go to MC.
> 
> If things do not improve divorcing him a reasonable thing to do. You do not want to go through life feeling the serious rejection that you are feeling. It will slowly sap you of self esteem. I knew.. been there, done that.



Thank you. I really appreciate all the help and advice I can receive. It sounds like you have experience on the issue. I was wondering if you had any advice to things I could do, or say, or even how to say or do them, before choosing MC?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Sparkly, I would suggest that you post a thread of your own. You'll get lots of help and advice from people who have been in your shoes. By comparison, few people will read a year old thread where the original poster is long gone. Good luck with your situation!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You might want to read back through the responses on this thread, while they are talking to a guy about them it's really not all that different for a woman. You can do a lot of the things that they are suggesting.

There are some books that I think would help you a lot.

"Divorce Busting", when you read it pay special attention to the "180" (not the "180" listed in my signature block below). The 180 is changing your behavior to be 180 degrees different from your norm. The book explains it and will give you some good ideas.

The other books are linked in my signature block below for building a passionate marriage. Read them and do what they suggest. Also see if your husband will read or at least participate in the exercises in "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters".

On the topic of MCs. Find one who is a sex therapist. They are MCs but they look at the sexual issues in a marriage as well.

One thing you need to state very clearly to your husband is that you will not stay in a sexless marriage. So either he works with you to fix this problem NOW or you will end the marriage. You need to be very clear that he is hurting you. 

Withholding sex is a form of emotional abuse. He might as well be screaming at you all day long that he's rejecting you. It's that serious an issue.

Men on this forum always say that sex is the way that they show their love and it's the primary way that they feel loved. It's the same for many women. Your husband is denying you a very important part of why you married him. Don't put up with it.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

Sparkly said:


> You do not sound like a sex hungry jerk. It is completely normal and expected to feel the way you feel. I am the same age as you, I've been married a little over a year, and I'm in the same boat as you. It feels harder, because I am the wife, and friends joke that after marriage women withhold sex. In my case, my husband is withholding sex. I've brought up the issue to him many times, which breaks my heart. Nothing changes. To be clear, I'm a highly attractive women. People stop my in the street to tell me so. Women, men, all say how beautiful and stunning I am. their opinions do not matter, It hurts, because it makes me think, these people would KILL to have me, and he has me, and doesn't appreciate it. I just want my husband to want me. I know he loves me, and gives me attention, but I want to have sex with my husband! Even, knowing how attractive I am, makes it harder. He claims it is work, and things will slow down, but they will not. I own my own company, and I'm very busy as well, but I think it is important to make time for intimacy. I even wear sexy lingerie. I'll even try to get him in the mood, only to be rejected and feel AWFUL, and cry when I am alone! We only have sex when he wants to, during the time of day that he wants to. Which comes out to about once a month. I thought men needed sex? He comes home every day around 5, and leaves for work every morning around 6. We spend all weekends and nights together, so I do not think he is having an affair, but sometimes my mind wonders.
> 
> I just thought it may help for you to know a woman is in the same hurtful boat as you, and I too have no idea how to solve it. It is horrible when the person you love most in the world, rejects you in that way. Especially when you are attractive, smart, and loving. What gives?



Thank you for your sympathy. I guess most people on this forum did think I was long gone, but I still watch it. 

After lots of urging, my wife finally saw a doctor. She apparently has polycystic ovarian syndrome which might be affecting her sex drive. Not much has improved, so I guess you just live with it. Right now, I focus on understanding her syndrome and my Ph.D. 24/7.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Knowing her health issue can go a long way to figuring out how to handle this.

What dos the doc say about her using birht control iwththe cysts? can it make it worse? better? no affect?


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Knowing her health issue can go a long way to figuring out how to handle this.
> 
> What dos the doc say about her using birht control iwththe cysts? can it make it worse? better? no affect?


She has been and currently is on Mirena, which I though might be the problem. The doctor also gave her additional birth control pills to help balance out her hormones. She seems to have more energy now, which is good, but still doesn't care much for sex or intimacy. 
She still just wants to cuddle or get a massage while watching her ipad.


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## helpwanted (Sep 16, 2012)

husband1987 said:


> So, like many people on here, I am in what I consider a sexless marriage. To get started, forget about her cheating, just trust me, it isn't happening. Love and honesty aren't issues.
> 
> My wife and I have been married barely a year. We've been together for about 2.5 years. We met at 21 and both just turned 24. In the first six months we were together, we had sex multiple times a week. After that, it became once a week, twice a month, once a month, and now, ever since we got married, about every month and a half. First anniversary sex?...no. Birthday sex?...no. Valentines, Christmas...no, no. We didn't even have sex for the first two days of our honeymoon in Mexico which was directly after our wedding. I love her more than anything, but I want intimacy. Without it, I feel like we have lost a great deal of passion.
> 
> ...




I wish my husband would massage me anywhere. even if his life depended on it I would get nothing. I could count on one hand how many times I have had a massage from him in the last 10 years of our relationship. It's ridiculous. He barely touches me, doesn't caress me. Nothing. I give him massages, rub his feet. You name it I do it. I would kill to be in your wife situation.

I can tell you birth control can cause a great deal of side affects but as far as not wanting to HAVE SEX that's BS. I was on Birth control for over 8 years and just stopped last year. I wanted sex still and I was on the birth control that was suppose to decrease your sexual drive. I also gained about 10 pounds and the birth control made me depressed.

Since coming off the BC I have lost all the weight and back down to 120. I feel great and my sex drive has been stronger than ever. One question, If you are married Why is she still on BC? It take a while to get it out of your system so if you are planning on having kids in the future she should consider getting off. I know i stayed on it a while until we were married then I came off and refused condoms(which we never used anyways) I enjoy the feeling way to much without them.

How are you shallow by expressing that she isn't totally fulfilling you sexually. Obviously if you aren't getting it you will want it way more.
I wish you the best in this situation and i can assure you that you are no jerk for what you are doing.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

husband1987 said:


> I agree with you there. I've told her the same thing. Our couple friends got off BC and talked with her about it because their sex lives improved. No go for her. It's not that she wouldn't do the things mentioned, she just doesn't think sex is important enough to do them. I would probably have to threaten divorce which I wouldn't do.
> 
> What I have noticed is that she is nicest girl I've ever been with and the most sane. With that said, the crazies were all very active.
> Is that a tradeoff for men.


Here in lies your problem You have decided that the status quo is good enough and you are unwilling to take a stand. She knows this and does not respect you enough to make the effort for you to have a fulldilling sex life. I think you are :nice guy" (and I mean it in a not so nice way!)

Read up on the man-up threads. You can not nice her into more sex. If you are unwilling to leave her, you have already lost the battle. We teach people how to treat us. You have taught her this is ok

Good luck


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

Don't underestimate the effect of BC on the wrong woman. I'm 24 as well and like 2 years back - when our relationship was going through a rather rough period - she was on BC and our sexlife was pretty dim. Even though pretty serious issues were festering between us as soon as she quit that damn BC our sexlife magically became much better.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Open up now let it all go said:


> Don't underestimate the effect of BC on the wrong woman. I'm 24 as well and like 2 years back - when our relationship was going through a rather rough period - she was on BC and our sexlife was pretty dim. Even though pretty serious issues were festering between us as soon as she quit that damn BC our sexlife magically became much better.


You will find multiple threads where bc causes many sex drive/hormonal problems in women. Kando is right though how much more of this can you handle, only you can decide.


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