# Thoughts About Dating After Divorce As A Former BS



## 2ntnuf

Are we ever really a former betrayed spouse? That's not the question, and yet it sort of is, but it's more complicated.

Something is bothering me and I am asking for some help and opinions. 

I was talking with an older gentleman who told me his wife cheated on him about twenty years ago. He ended up divorcing and lost a portion of his retirement. He even retired early, since his wife was seeing someone where he worked. I suppose like others, he was terribly humiliated. 

He has since found it within himself to date. He talks about having a girlfriend and her "demands". He says she always wants him with her and he half-heartedly complains about it, then talks about what a nice time he had. He told me she sees other men and then seems to want him to show some jealousy. He also said he dates other women. 

He asked why I would not want to do the same. 

I told him that when I think about what he has to say, I feel like I would be doing the very same thing my ex-wife was doing, that I loathed. 

I know it's not the same as infidelity, since none of them is married. For me, it feels very similar and I told him that I might as well have stayed married to a cheating wife because that's basically what his girlfriend is doing. I also told him it seems he has learned to do the very thing that broke his heart and made him divorce. He could have just stayed married. If he is okay with his girlfriend multi-dating, why not his wife? Do you understand my confusion?

Obviously, like most divorcee's, he held up his part of the marriage. Whatever...that's not the issue. 

How do you feel about this, or how did you feel before you started dating? Keep in mind, I have never been a dater, or multi-dater, I suppose is the term. I am more of a one woman man, even in dating. I want to work through one relationship at a time, or one dater. Not that it will happen any time soon for me. I just want to understand a little better, if possible.

I have to assume a few things from the lack of responses with over 150 views. 

1) I wasn't clear in my questions and no one really understands.

2) Very few have these feelings/beliefs.

3) The answers to the question(s) might make someone look bad.

4) You think this question is so simple, you don't understand why anyone would ask.

5) Something else, though I don't know what that could be.


This isn't a test or lesson I want to teach. It's not a game. It's not a sparring match. That doesn't mean threads don't easily go that way. It just means I really am confused and need some help to understand. If it is so controversial no one wants to answer, I didn't realize it. I just laid bare my soul and went for it, because even those I disagree with have given me perspective. 

I will likely bring this up with my counselor, so there is no real pressure. Sometimes it feels good to understand and relieves burdens I needlessly place on myself. The biggest problem is usually that we are all so different and come from such different lives and backgrounds, it's tough to find an answer that is acceptable. Maybe that's really the problem? Maybe there really is no issue? It's just there are so few folks who think like me left in the world? I don't know. That's part of the reason I'm asking.

In other words, am I that screwed up or is this normal for some? Is it something I need to work on or is it just the way some folks believe, whether common or not in the U.S.? 

I hope that makes it a little more clear and produces some responses. I don't know how else to word it. I'm just being as truthful as possible, right or wrong, hurtful or not, pc or not. I do that quite a bit here. Sometimes, I even will answer controversially when I know some anger will sometimes bring out truth. Discovering issues is the first part of changing and healing. 

Now you know me a little better.


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## Jane139

It sounds like you are looking for a committed relationship and he is not. Maybe he feels "safer" seeing a woman who is not monogamous, who knows. That way,,he knows upfront he is not the only man in her life. People react differently to having had a cheating spouse and the effects can last a lifetime.

If you are seeking a monogamous relationship...I would look elsewhere. Plenty of men are looking for the same, despite how it seems sometimes.


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## Jellybeans

I tink this is a very individual thing. Some people prefer multi-dating. Some don't. One size doesn't fit all.

For myself, I've found I'm not very good at it.

The key in dating is to be honest about what you want and are ok with. If you aren't into multi-dating you can tell the person up front. Then if they are, you can decide to cut it off if that's what you want.


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## Nomorebeans

2ntnuf, I think your question is very interesting.

STBXH and I are now separated, he's continuing in his relationship with the OW as far as I know (I really try never to ask about her. I kind of like to pretend she doesn't exist - she is not living with him yet, as she will have to move from another state to do that, so I can deny her existence to myself for a while longer).

I've wondered if I'll find someone I can trust again at this point. I don't dwell on it much, because I'm still trying to fully heal and get to where I truly just don't care what he does anymore before I launch into anything with someone new.

I'm a one man woman. When I was in college and the year before I met my STBXH, I was serially monogamous. Had my heart broken by a couple of guys during that period who, after 3-6 months, wanted "to see other people," and ending up marrying the next girl they ended up seeing.

I sometimes think the only men I'll be able to trust again are other BS's who want to be monogamous, and who are divorced and have healed. I've never had any interest in multi-dating. I'm not co-dependent - I'm quite independent, actually, and definitely not clingy. But I do equate sex with love and don't want to have it just to have it with no emotional attachment behind it. I think those who can sleep with multiple partners must be remaining emotionally detached from them. I can't do that.


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## Rowan

I'm divorced from a man I found out had been serially cheating on me for pretty much our entire 15+ year marriage. 

I actually will "multi-date", but only for the first couple of dates with anyone. If it goes further than 2-3 dates with a guy, I stop seeing other people until we've figured out if it's going anywhere. I do not sleep with more than one person at a time. I like sex, but I only want to have it in the context of an exclusive relationship with a man I care about and can see the possibility of a future with. 

So, basically, I'm looking for a relationship, not just something casual. I don't do friends with benefits or NSA sex. I have no issues if others want to pursue those types of arrangements. It's just not what I'm looking for. 

2ntnuf, I suspect your friend remains deeply scarred by what happened in his marriage. Perhaps he hasn't fully healed. Or, he may simply no longer be capable of the trust and emotional vulnerability required for an exclusive relationship. In any case, he seems to have chosen to not even try for one. What he has with his girlfriend may be all he wants, or all he's capable of now. I may think that's sad, but it's apparently working for him at this time.

Personally, I choose to not allow who my ex-husband turned out to be to dictate how I live my life. As you say, if I was okay being with someone who was emotionally unavailable and sleeping with other people, I could have stayed married and kept my house and half my money. I choose to believe that there are good men out there who don't cheat, who love and respect their partners. That's what I'm looking for when I date. I don't want a casual or open relationship. So I don't date men who want that, since we'd be incompatible.


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## EnjoliWoman

:iagree:

That. Both in her view of your friend and the questions you posed as well as how I feel about dating and relationships.

He doesn't want to feel vulnerable emotionally or financially. He'll never have what you are looking for by doing that, though.


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## Chuck71

Some people position themselves to serial dating for several reasons. They could be scared to 

connect deeply with another person, may not feel the reward is worth the risk, some after a 15-20-25 year M....

feel it just isn't in the cards for them. Mom and pop's parents were married till death, my parents

were (well it took them getting M twice :lol: ) married till death, my two older aunts were.

As I grew up... once M, always M.... fight it out. Well times.... they do a' change. 

The months leading up to me meeting 1st love... I was more interested in recovering from the 

botched surgery and enjoying my senior year. We met, both showed interest, but I was hesitant. 

1st love cornered me...."if you like me, act on it or leave me alone." We dated two years.

2nd love... I decided to date around and enjoy my college years. I did like this one gal

but learned she wanted to try things again with her x b/f. I respected that... she would ask me 

advice (I was a few years older). One day she told me she had a friend she thought I would like to meet.

We dated solid for three years and off and on two more. For roughly a year, I dated around... had just

graduated college. Met a few great women, met a few I wish I hadn't. Even was semi-serious with

a gal 17 years older than me. Summer '97 I was happily dating a handful of women and was not

serious with any. Enter my now XW.... "the deck was shuffled" and she was top card on deck.

Reshuffled.... XW still there...... third time.... XW still there. One by one the other women just

faded away. There we were.... 15+ years. After DDay 2012... I had about as much desire to date

as I would getting a hemorrhoid. I knew exactly what I wanted by learning from my mistakes in

our M. But I was not ready.... for anything serious. Enter UG... who personified "the perfect person at 

the perfect time." It was wonderful..... then it was over. Somewhat like a high school or college

romance. I have been dating around for about six months now. Not much has changed... still love older

women. I seem more attractive to older women. Now for the Sandy Koufax curveball....

since I want kids I have to date younger. New territory for me. When you look to the right for that 

"person" she will sneak up on you, on your left. As for the BS.... I never knew if XW cheated or

not. It didn't matter.... she walked out on the M. To he!! with her. She regrets what she did,

has admitted this. Well that is her cross to bear.


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## Wolf1974

I have done both. Multi dated when I was in the early phases of divorce and hurt from the cheating. I was out of control. I would sometimes stack up dates 3 deep on a Saturday and another 2 or so on Sunday. This was ok I guess but expensive even though I had a no dinner first date rule, and not very fulfilling. In the end I am a relationship guy and can't really obtain that dating everyone in town. So now I do one at a time which I'm much happier with.


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## 2ntnuf

I'd say all of you have given me some great "food for thought". Thank you. 

I'd like to respond individually to you all, so give me a little time to think about what I want to post in reply. 

You all made me think, but more importantly, feel like I am not an anomaly.


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## 3Xnocharm

If they are dating other people, then she is not his "girlfriend" nor is he the "boyfriend." You cant have those titles if you are multi dating. The woman in this scenario is very selfish in expecting him to give her all this time and show jealousy. Its kind of sick, in my personal opinion. I dont understand why he is tolerating it, whether he wants commitment or wants to keep dating around. Either way, this woman sounds toxic. 

If you dont want to multi date, then DONT. I dont do it, I hate the idea of that. I am a one on one kind of person, and if you dont like the idea of what he is doing, then dont let anyone talk you into it.


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## 2ntnuf

Jane139 said:


> It sounds like you are looking for a committed relationship and he is not. Maybe he feels "safer" seeing a woman who is not monogamous, who knows. That way,,he knows upfront he is not the only man in her life. People react differently to having had a cheating spouse and the effects can last a lifetime.
> 
> If you are seeking a monogamous relationship...I would look elsewhere. Plenty of men are looking for the same, despite how it seems sometimes.


Well, I haven't even begun to date. I have thought about it, but I was/am not quite ready.

He almost talks like that Sir whatshisname site that's a player guide. It's a little disturbing, actually. I know he doesn't mean any harm and is pretty open about his beliefs. He has learned over time, how to do this, or so he says. I think it does have to do with what happened to him, but that to me, is disturbing when I realize he is doing what he hated. 

He does seem very happy with it all. It seems like a hell of a lot of drama to me.

I get the impression he thinks I should follow in his steps, like there is no chance for me due to my age, past, available money, and so forth. Maybe he is right about me? Him being 67 I think, and me being 52, I sort of look at him as someone with advice I should seriously consider. I don't trust him very well, yet. That takes time and consistency. 

I don't really want to date a bunch of women, or a bunch at one time. If I ever do start dating, I will want to do a one at a time thing. I will likely not have sex until I feel pretty sure that woman is only going to have sex with me until we decide for more or less of each other's time.


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## 2ntnuf

Jellybeans said:


> I tink this is a very individual thing. Some people prefer multi-dating. Some don't. One size doesn't fit all.
> 
> For myself, I've found I'm not very good at it.
> 
> The key in dating is to be honest about what you want and are ok with. If you aren't into multi-dating you can tell the person up front. Then if they are, you can decide to cut it off if that's what you want.


I figured we were all different, but even that statement shows the level of naivety I have. I wish it weren't so, but it is true. I did a little bit of it for about two months and found it to be dramatic and exciting, but that was twenty years ago and I ended it with the one I felt was looking for more, when I realized I could not give it. She gave me the impression she was doing the same, I was a serious consideration, but she wasn't going to commit to only me. I had some issues with worry over possible disease or whatever, and getting a rep for being an ass. I didn't like that, but I guess it was a part of the kind of thing many men do after their marriage dissolves. I'm not up for that, and I wasn't good at it either. I was waiting for something bad to happen.


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## 2ntnuf

Nomorebeans said:


> 2ntnuf, I think your question is very interesting.


Thanks. I didn't think I would read something like that. I keep running into questions that I've never thought about much before. It's literally scary now. I don't want to be thinking of doom and gloom and I'll never have...whatever. I'm trying. I really am. 



Nomorebeans said:


> STBXH and I are now separated, he's continuing in his relationship with the OW as far as I know (I really try never to ask about her. I kind of like to pretend she doesn't exist - she is not living with him yet, as she will have to move from another state to do that, so I can deny her existence to myself for a while longer).


That sucks. At some point, you will accept at least some of it. I haven't accepted all of what happened. Hell, I don't know all of what happened. There may come a time when I'll want to pursue some answers, but I suffer from anxiety now, and when I talk about these things with others, even just glossing over things, I lock in to that anxiety and it really is debilitating. It is much better, but I am not fully healed. I may never be, but I'll keep trying. CBT is supposed to help with that kind of thing.



Nomorebeans said:


> I've wondered if I'll find someone I can trust again at this point. I don't dwell on it much, because I'm still trying to fully heal and get to where I truly just don't care what he does anymore before I launch into anything with someone new.


And that's partly why I don't even casually date. It's in my answer above. The anxiety is tough. The unintentional comparisons stymie any desire to pursue. It's much less prominent, but I'm not quite there yet. 



Nomorebeans said:


> I'm a one man woman. When I was in college and the year before I met my STBXH, I was serially monogamous. Had my heart broken by a couple of guys during that period who, after 3-6 months, wanted "to see other people," and ending up marrying the next girl they ended up seeing.
> 
> I sometimes think the only men I'll be able to trust again are other BS's who want to be monogamous, and who are divorced and have healed. I've never had any interest in multi-dating. I'm not co-dependent - I'm quite independent, actually, and definitely not clingy. But I do equate sex with love and don't want to have it just to have it with no emotional attachment behind it. I think those who can sleep with multiple partners must be remaining emotionally detached from them. I can't do that.


Sex is such an intimately vulnerable thing for me, I really have a tough time getting to it with just anyone. Insecurity, realization that I'm not all that and a bag of chips, and many other personal issues come in to play. Those aren't the only things, though. I have a little issue with leading a woman on. I may have been taught that in my youth. I don't know. It's the icing on the cake for me. It is so special and wonderful, I like it when it is "making love". It has always been much more satisfying for me when it has been "making love". I do like just sex for sex, but from that one woman I'm with at the time. I even like exploring, though even that response shows my shyness, by avoiding directly addressing what I mean. So, you can see, I have to deal with many things, too. 

I think you will eventually recover to a point that you can function in a fashion that is normal for a scarred BS. Some of that scarring, believe it or not is good, but mostly it just sucks and is needless.


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## 2ntnuf

Rowan said:


> I'm divorced from a man I found out had been serially cheating on me for pretty much our entire 15+ year marriage.


I knew the betrayed part, but not the most of the marriage part. Good lord. I couldn't read on without commenting. That's how much that affected me. 



Rowan said:


> I actually will "multi-date", but only for the first couple of dates with anyone. If it goes further than 2-3 dates with a guy, I stop seeing other people until we've figured out if it's going anywhere. I do not sleep with more than one person at a time. I like sex, but I only want to have it in the context of an exclusive relationship with a man I care about and can see the possibility of a future with.


If I did anything, I might do this, but it's as far as I think I would go now. I don't think I would even know how to do this, though. I would think of them as friends or acquaintances rather than potential partners. 



Rowan said:


> So, basically, I'm looking for a relationship, not just something casual. I don't do friends with benefits or NSA sex. I have no issues if others want to pursue those types of arrangements. It's just not what I'm looking for.


I agree. I don't know what I want. I feel like if I actually dated, it would be with one woman and would not be much more than dating and eventually, after much consideration, sex, but only with her. What's scary is I can't be sure about her doing the same, and many people lie just to get a little satisfaction. 



Rowan said:


> 2ntnuf, I suspect your friend remains deeply scarred by what happened in his marriage. Perhaps he hasn't fully healed. Or, he may simply no longer be capable of the trust and emotional vulnerability required for an exclusive relationship. In any case, he seems to have chosen to not even try for one. What he has with his girlfriend may be all he wants, or all he's capable of now. I may think that's sad, but it's apparently working for him at this time.


This seems likely and I think it has become comfortable for him. I mean the lack of having to be too vulnerable and open to becoming another betrayed...monogamous dater, committed partner...? It seems he is covering for fear and keeping options open so he can think, "I don't care and it doesn't hurt because I have other women who want me besides you". 



Rowan said:


> Personally, I choose to not allow who my ex-husband turned out to be to dictate how I live my life. As you say, if I was okay being with someone who was emotionally unavailable and sleeping with other people, I could have stayed married and kept my house and half my money. I choose to believe that there are good men out there who don't cheat, who love and respect their partners. That's what I'm looking for when I date. I don't want a casual or open relationship. So I don't date men who want that, since we'd be incompatible.


Yeah, that's pretty much summing it up. I guess it's peer pressure causing me some angst? Many men are laughed at or get their stones broken if they don't act like they don't hurt any more. They are laughed at for not getting back into the game and screwing as many women as they can. I jokingly mentioned something about a sort of harem type deal where he had his options always open to him and he shook his head yes. He's not a bad guy, just so you all know. He's a decent guy, just no longer monogamous. And, strangely enough, he said many men and women who have been burned like this do similarly. He's always joking or talking to women, almost like he's always looking for another woman because he knows the last will eventually be gone. 

That really sucks and breaks my heart when I think of my future. I can't be that way. I won't lie and say I don't find myself saying something humorous, but I don't consider it flirting since I don't have that intention. I suppose someone might consider it as flirting. Today, a woman sneezed and someone said "bless you". Right after, I said, "that blew my hair back". I thought it was funny because I have a crew cut and some male pattern baldness, so there isn't much to blow back. On top of that, she was about eight feet away and turned the other way. Another woman in the area chuckled her butt off. The one I said that to, didn't. Don't know now why I wrote that, but I'll let myself be vulnerable.


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## 2ntnuf

EnjoliWoman said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That. Both in her view of your friend and the questions you posed as well as how I feel about dating and relationships.
> 
> He doesn't want to feel vulnerable emotionally or financially. He'll never have what you are looking for by doing that, though.


That last sentence is one thing I am thinking in the back of my mind. Don't know if I would ever marry again. Likely not, but I would want someone close to me in heart and exclusive to me. It's hard to write that and not feel like it's controlling. I don't mean it that way. 

But, that's freakin' scary as hell. It frightens me to my core.


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## 2ntnuf

Chuck71 said:


> Some people position themselves to serial dating for several reasons. They could be scared to
> 
> connect deeply with another person, may not feel the reward is worth the risk, some after a 15-20-25 year M....
> 
> feel it just isn't in the cards for them. Mom and pop's parents were married till death, my parents
> 
> were (well it took them getting M twice :lol: ) married till death, my two older aunts were.
> 
> As I grew up... once M, always M.... fight it out. Well times.... they do a' change.


So far, everyone from my two older brothers, who are 11 and 13 years older, on back through to forever that I know of, have stayed married till death. There are maybe just two or three of my relatives, out of say thirty, that have divorced. My sister, who is only 15 months older and me are the ones who have had the toughest time with it. Different generations, I guess. Taught the older ways by aging parents and they weren't compatible with the realities of the day. I don't know for sure. Some of it is me, too. I won't lie. 



Chuck71 said:


> The months leading up to me meeting 1st love... I was more interested in recovering from the
> 
> botched surgery and enjoying my senior year. We met, both showed interest, but I was hesitant.
> 
> 1st love cornered me...."if you like me, act on it or leave me alone." We dated two years.
> 
> 2nd love... I decided to date around and enjoy my college years. I did like this one gal
> 
> but learned she wanted to try things again with her x b/f. I respected that... she would ask me
> 
> advice (I was a few years older). One day she told me she had a friend she thought I would like to meet.
> 
> We dated solid for three years and off and on two more. For roughly a year, I dated around... had just
> 
> graduated college. Met a few great women, met a few I wish I hadn't. Even was semi-serious with
> 
> a gal 17 years older than me. Summer '97 I was happily dating a handful of women and was not
> 
> serious with any. Enter my now XW.... "the deck was shuffled" and she was top card on deck.
> 
> Reshuffled.... XW still there...... third time.... XW still there. One by one the other women just
> 
> faded away. There we were.... 15+ years. After DDay 2012... I had about as much desire to date
> 
> as I would getting a hemorrhoid. I knew exactly what I wanted by learning from my mistakes in
> 
> our M. But I was not ready.... for anything serious. Enter UG... who personified "the perfect person at
> 
> the perfect time." It was wonderful..... then it was over. Somewhat like a high school or college
> 
> romance. I have been dating around for about six months now. Not much has changed... still love older
> 
> women. I seem more attractive to older women. Now for the Sandy Koufax curveball....
> 
> since I want kids I have to date younger. New territory for me. When you look to the right for that
> 
> "person" she will sneak up on you, on your left.


That's a lot to me. I know it's not that much, in the bigger picture. Sneaking up on me is how I met my second wife. She was there speaking at a meeting. I wanted to get to know her, but had no designs of getting married to anyone. I didn't take it off the table completely and forever. I just had no thoughts of it. A few dates later, and she wanted to move in. 



Chuck71 said:


> As for the BS.... I never knew if XW cheated or
> 
> not. It didn't matter.... she walked out on the M. To he!! with her. She regrets what she did,
> 
> has admitted this. Well that is her cross to bear.


Some day, I may want to talk with my second wife. I haven't been able since she left in '11. There was no ability to have a conversation, no matter how I tried. A ton of hurt later, and I have not contacted her since June of '12. I sometimes believe it will be a must to heal. Trouble is, I doubt she will ever want to discuss in general, just what the hell happened. I'm not ready yet anyway. I have time. I may choose not to ever attempt that and have no real designs on it presently. It's just thoughts and musings at the moment. Trying to heal and figuring out what I need to do that is tough.


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## 2ntnuf

Wolf1974 said:


> I have done both. Multi dated when I was in the early phases of divorce and hurt from the cheating. I was out of control. I would sometimes stack up dates 3 deep on a Saturday and another 2 or so on Sunday. This was ok I guess but expensive even though I had a no dinner first date rule, and not very fulfilling. In the end I am a relationship guy and can't really obtain that dating everyone in town. So now I do one at a time which I'm much happier with.


I've never had two scheduled in one day. I have had one in or two in a week, but that's it. That was in my thirties and part of the one time I did that, as I posted above this. 

I think it would be less problematic, even for those with experience multi-dating, to just stick with one at a time.


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## Rowan

2ntnuf said:


> If I did anything, I might do this, but it's as far as I think I would go now. I don't think I would even know how to do this, though. I would think of them as friends or acquaintances rather than potential partners.



Virtually all of my dating has been with men I met on online dating sites. I think of the first date as a chance to see if we gross each other out, if we can carry on a reasonable conversation, if either of us are lying about anything major and obvious in our profiles. In other words, it's a very preliminary, very low-key meeting to decide if it's even worth it to continue talking or try to arrange another date. I'm not looking for true love on a first date. I'm looking to determine if this person is even someone I would be willing to get to know further. It's a chance to do the initial evaluation I would have done if I'd met the guy in person - through friends, at a party, through work, etc. - but didn't have the opportunity for since I "met" him online. 

The second date is where I start trying to really evaluate a man's potential as a romantic partner. Is this someone I am attracted to and would like to date, know better, perhaps develop a relationship with? Or, as has been most common so far, is this a really nice man that I'm not really attracted to or doesn't really seem all that compatible? I've had a number of second dates that didn't go any further. 

Which I think is why I have no problem having a couple first dates in the same week or two-week period. Or even a first date with one man on Tuesday and a second date with another man on Saturday. As I said, though, if I think there's enough potential with a man to warrant a third date, I stop seeing other people.

If the idea of multi-dating doesn't feel right for you, though, then you shouldn't do it.


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## 2ntnuf

3Xnocharm said:


> If they are dating other people, then she is not his "girlfriend" nor is he the "boyfriend." You cant have those titles if you are multi dating.


This comment made me sit up and take notice. I never thought to label it this way. I'm not saying there is something wrong with labeling it. I'm saying it's very accurate and eye opening to realize this perspective. 

He has told me she sort of complains he is not retired. It's his fault for how he spent his money. She wants more time with him. She threatens to "go to the dance" with another man. He says "go". He told me today that he will dance with someone else too. It doesn't bother him. For me, that's shocking and something I wish I could believe in my heart, but I'm just not that way. I'd be hurt. 




3Xnocharm said:


> The woman in this scenario is very selfish in expecting him to give her all this time and show jealousy. Its kind of sick, in my personal opinion. I dont understand why he is tolerating it, whether he wants commitment or wants to keep dating around. Either way, this woman sounds toxic.


Yes, I think she is selfish to some extent. I think she expects life to be a certain way. Like, having some money, a good retirement and so on a so forth. Just like the american dream says we must all have to win. I don't really know what his financial state is, but I don't think he is broke. I agree she is toxic. There is something he gets out of this. I'll let you guess. 



3Xnocharm said:


> If you dont want to multi date, then DONT. I dont do it, I hate the idea of that. I am a one on one kind of person, and if you dont like the idea of what he is doing, then dont let anyone talk you into it.


Thanks for the validation here. It means a lot.


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## 2ntnuf

Rowan said:


> Virtually all of my dating has been with men I met on online dating sites. I think of the first date as a chance to see if we gross each other out, if we can carry on a reasonable conversation, if either of us are lying about anything major and obvious in our profiles. In other words, it's a very preliminary, very low-key meeting to decide if it's even worth it to continue talking or try to arrange another date. I'm not looking for true love on a first date. I'm looking to determine if this person is even someone I would be willing to get to know further.
> 
> The second date is where I start trying to really evaluate a man's potential as a romantic partner. Is this someone I am attracted to and would like to date, know better, perhaps develop a relationship with? Or, as has been most common so far, is this a really nice man that I'm not really attracted to or doesn't really seem all that compatible. I've had a number of second dates that didn't go any further.
> 
> Which I think is why I have no problem having a couple first dates in the same week or two-week period. Or even a first date with one man on Tuesday and a second date with another man on Saturday. As I said, though, if I think there's enough potential with a man to warrant a third date, I stop seeing other people.


Sorry if I sounded judgmental or misleading in my response. I did not mean it that way...not at all. Don't feel guilty. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.(what you are doing) 

You have to understand that I have specific reasons personal to me that have nothing to do with you or anyone. Most of this stuff I should or did know, but have either forgotten or cannot for the life of me figure out, no matter how simple it seems. I wasn't always this way. Something happened to me that left me with a few problems that I have to work through. Well, lots of things happened that affected me. 

It's nothing to do with any of you. 

At my core, I am a conservative when it comes to dating and sex, but not totally inhibited. I would just need someone special to bring things out in me, now. I need to work on myself some more. I know it and this thread is part of helping me define what I need to address about myself, not anyone else.


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## 2ntnuf

Thank you everyone.


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## Nomorebeans

2ntnuf said:


> That last sentence is one thing I am thinking in the back of my mind. Don't know if I would ever marry again. Likely not, but I would want someone close to me in heart and exclusive to me. It's hard to write that and not feel like it's controlling. I don't mean it that way.
> 
> But, that's freakin' scary as hell. It frightens me to my core.


I understand this, and I don't think it sounds controlling. It's crossed my mind more than once that marrying again may not be something I would or should do. But I'd certainly like to eventually be exclusive with someone and have that closeness again.

I think it's going to take me a while to heal, though. And I also think that at least one of my son's parents should show him that someone you've spent half your life with can't be that easily replaced. I don't mean that as spitefully as it sounds - I mean sincerely that my son is a little freaked out that his Dad is doing this seemingly out of nowhere - he thought we had a good marriage and were happy, and it's kind of left him reeling just a bit.


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## 2ntnuf

Nomorebeans said:


> I understand this, and I don't think it sounds controlling. It's crossed my mind more than once that marrying again may not be something I would or should do. But I'd certainly like to eventually be exclusive with someone and have that closeness again.
> 
> I think it's going to take me a while to heal, though. And I also think that at least one of my son's parents should show him that someone you've spent half your life with can't be that easily replaced. I don't mean that as spitefully as it sounds - I mean sincerely that my son is a little freaked out that his Dad is doing this seemingly out of nowhere - he thought we had a good marriage and were happy, and it's kind of left him reeling just a bit.


Decisions based in feelings rather than mostly logic are scary and confusing. There doesn't seem like something solid to think on and say, oh yeah I get your reasons. It's more...Huh? You what? But...I just can't understand that....

The trouble is, love, as a feeling each of us has is not perceptible to others unless we do something. Doing something might not be love, but obligation and perceived as love by a spouse or partner. It's really messed up. How can a kid, even a teen understand if we really don't? 

I bet there are some books that he can read and if anyone is looking in and has a suggestion, please feel free to hijack a little for her and her son's sake. I'm not going anywhere soon with this, so it won't hurt a thing and we can come back to topic. 

Oddly, I haven't read any spite or bitterness in your posts, just hurt, anger, frustration, a little confusion at times, and pain. I wish it weren't so.


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## Chuck71

As for the reasoning why my XW gave up on our M... after I walked out of the clouds and stepped into the light,

I profiled her (my field of study), everything made sense. Did I want questions answered even after

I forced her hand? Yes I did. I knew one day they would be answered and at her request to.

They were answered about a year later. Was she honest with all of them? She wasn't.

One day..... down the road she will. I will always love who she was but not what she turned into.


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## zillard

2ntnuf said:


> Are we ever really a former betrayed spouse?


In a sense, no. Being betrayed can be a very traumatic experience, and if it was for you, you'll always be a person who has been through that trauma. 

However, it doesn't have to define nor control you. 

You can think of yourself as a BS, a former BS, or as a single man with experience. 

As far as the dating goes, you're not alone. Multi-dating as has been described here (first round of dates prior to sex) is something I have no problem with, as I see that first round as a fun interview process. But sex is very intimate to me and I wouldn't be OK with myself having multiple partners, and due to that I expect the same from any partner. 

I've had a couple ONSs before. Sure I got my rocks off, was fun, but ultimately would rather not that way. I see them as being more about immediate gratification and validation. However, that quickly dissipates leaving me feeling a bit icky. Not for me. I've even turned down naked women before as it just didn't feel right to me. 

Multiple partners and FWB would not work for me either, for the same reasons.


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## Nomorebeans

Chuck71 said:


> I will always love who she was but not what she turned into.


I don't think my STBXH was once a good-hearted person who turned into something else - I think I've just finally starting to see him for what he really is. 

I look back at our marriage, now, and realize that the good times were an exception and not the rule. He basically abandoned me on a number of occasions. I wanted him to accompany me to my extended family's or out-state-friends' holiday and other events and visits and asked him sincerely to do so, and he almost always talked his way out of going with me. In the rare event he did accompany me, he acted like a spoiled brat who didn't get his way the whole time and embarassed me in front of my family and friends. Consequently, none of my family or long-time friends are terribly upset that we're divorcing. Some of them have even said things like "He's treated you terribly for years. Good riddance."

Chuck, do you think your WW actually changed, or just more openly showed herself for what she really is?

In my view, people don't change. They just get older.


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## 2ntnuf

zillard said:


> In a sense, no. Being betrayed can be a very traumatic experience, and if it was for you, you'll always be a person who has been through that trauma.
> 
> However, it doesn't have to define nor control you.
> 
> You can think of yourself as a BS, a former BS, or as a single man with experience.
> 
> As far as the dating goes, you're not alone. Multi-dating as has been described here (first round of dates prior to sex) is something I have no problem with, as I see that first round as a fun interview process. But sex is very intimate to me and I wouldn't be OK with myself having multiple partners, and due to that I expect the same from any partner.
> 
> I've had a couple ONSs before. Sure I got my rocks off, was fun, but ultimately would rather not that way. I see them as being more about immediate gratification and validation. However, that quickly dissipates leaving me feeling a bit icky. Not for me. I've even turned down naked women before as it just didn't feel right to me.
> 
> Multiple partners and FWB would not work for me either, for the same reasons.


It's almost too much to believe, but it's true. I've never had a ONS. I've also turned down sex with a sure thing woman who was aggressive and telling me to go upstairs with her. I would not do it. I've done it several times with women I didn't know and some I did know a little, but was married.
Edit: I meant turned them down when I was married and when single, if I didn't know them. That read like I "did it" with them. haha No, sorry. Never cheated. Never slept with a woman I didn't at least know a little and date.

I won't truly feel like a former betrayed spouse, ever. It's impacted me too much. It's sort of like being a widow/er in my mind. You can get married again, but you were married to a spouse that died. Unless they reverse that death and come back, I don't see how it could be different, but I suppose I won't have to talk about it all the time.


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## Nomorebeans

2ntnuf said:


> I won't truly feel like a former betrayed spouse, ever. It's impacted me too much. It's sort of like being a widow/er in my mind. You can get married again, but you were married to a spouse that died. Unless they reverse that death and come back, I don't see how it could be different, but I suppose I won't have to talk about it all the time.


:iagree:

It does very much feel to me like my STBXH has died, too. Except his ghost is still walking around, and having a whole other life with other people I don't know and don't care to know - other ghosts, I guess.

Yes, it will be nice to not have to talk about it all the time, won't it? I know that, and yet right now still need to talk about it all the time, I guess until I wring it out just as much as I possibly can before I hang it out, let it dry, and never handle it again. It'll still be hanging there and I won't be able to help but notice it once in a while. But I won't need it anymore.


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## 2ntnuf

Nomorebeans said:


> :iagree:
> 
> It does very much feel to me like my STBXH has died, too. Except his ghost is still walking around, and having a whole other life with other people I don't know and don't care to know - other ghosts, I guess.
> 
> Yes, it will be nice to not have to talk about it all the time, won't it? I know that, and yet right now still need to talk about it all the time, I guess until I wring it out just as much as I possibly can before I hang it out, let it dry, and never handle it again. It'll still be hanging there and I won't be able to help but notice it once in a while. But I won't need it anymore.


It takes quite some healing to get there. I'm not completely there. It's why I am not dating. Still, I want to know about these things. I'm hoping, but not holding my breath. If I never date again it would be really sad, but it's not completely impossible. 

I guess I am partly afraid to want anything anymore. All that I loved most deeply has left me or been taken from me. Seems defeatist, but I honestly have assessed what my life has been like. Many would say it was my fault, but I don't believe that with this second marriage. Some things I did wrong, sure.


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## zillard

2ntnuf said:


> Many would say it was my fault, but I don't believe that with this second marriage. Some things I did wrong, sure.


It's important to own our own crap - our choices, our actions. Just as important is to place the rest where it belongs, and let it go. They don't have to own their actions in order for us to refuse to carry them (though that would help). 

We all have enough stones to carry - no use carrying someone else's.


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## Chuck71

Nomorebeans said:


> Chuck, do you think your WW actually changed, or just more openly showed herself for what she really is?
> 
> In my view, people don't change. They just get older.


I don't know if she ever cheated or not....but it never mattered. Walking out was enough for me.

12/11/12 was my dark day... I climbed from the rabbit hole and funny, she began coming home 

every night from work next day. But all I wanted to hear was, "what about us" and all she gave was other things.

I detailed much about the upcoming D in my Crossroads: Sink or Swim thread, it is still there.

Her coming around is in my current thread..... Crossroads II: The Way.

Not much drama but bare boned emotion


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## SunCMars

2ntnuf said:


> I was talking with an older gentleman who told me his wife cheated on him about twenty years ago. He ended up divorcing and lost a portion of his retirement. He even retired early, since his wife was seeing someone where he worked. I suppose like others, he was terribly humiliated.
> 
> He has since found it within himself to date. He talks about having a girlfriend and her "demands". He says she always wants him with her and he half-heartedly complains about it, then talks about what a nice time he had. He told me she sees other men and then seems to want him to show some jealousy. He also said he dates other women.
> 
> He asked why I would not want to do the same.
> 
> I told him that when I think about what he has to say, *I feel like I would be doing the very same thing my ex-wife was doing, that I loathed.
> *


I am late to your enquiry. I am not likely a BS.

But, having an active imagination, empathy, courage of convictions, and having a "dead certain and known" response to such a situation [infidelity], were it to happen to me, I can answer your question.

You and I both have strong values. For us, our values will not vacillate much; with reference to any future interpersonal-situation that would test those values.

We think and feel the same way in private, in outer space, in a land where we know no one, and no one knows us. 

We have stubborn, ingrained strength of character.

It is simple as that.

There are many people who are flexible in all aspects of their life. 

This often serves them well.....though sometimes they get served with divorce papers. Flexibility is the antithesis of Boundaries.

Kudos for your resolve!


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## KillerClown

It is a general expectation throughout history that a promise once vocalized is to be kept. When a promise is written down it is called a contract and breaking a contract generally incurs penalties. A marriage is a mutual promise that is both vocal and written. If the promise is not to be taken seriously then the marriage is meaningless.

Dating on the other hand is like test driving a car. If you wrap it around a tree while taking it around the block then you are fully expected to make amends for it. But if you bring it back without a scratch then you are totally within your rights to make a bee-line to the lot across the street and test drive another car.


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## 2ntnuf

Don't know if I ever thanked everyone for their responses. 

Even if it's late, thank you all. All thoughts are appreciated. They make me see things that I might not otherwise. Perspective is very freeing.


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