# He cheated but you'll never guess with who



## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

Not sure where to even begin, I'm sure I'll unintentionally leave out some info, just ask if there's anything I'm not clear about...

A couple of years ago is when it started (or when I started realizing). My husband of 17yrs came clean with me about some things-he had been using steroids for the last 6 months or so. I was very adamant about this not being ok with me & insisted he stop immediately. He was also adamant that he would not. I struggled with this a lot & was completely thrown off by the idea that he would be injecting his body with this stuff. This was not the man I thought I knew. 

This caused me to become curious & began snooping through his things. I also began checking his FB. Here is where I found some messages between him & a friend I ran with. It seemed benign at first, I thought I was just reading too much into things. I had a race coming up, it would be the longest distance I had ever run, so it was a big deal for me. I would be running it with the sister of the woman he was messaging. He was trying to talk her into going to breakfast with him & our 2 kids (DD14 at the time & DS12) & her young child(she is twice divorced with one child) while I was running the race with her sister. This was a 50K run so I was gonna be a loooong while. She declined his offer but they did correspond quite a bit more about running certain races together. I always ran with her sister since she was more my pace, my husband was faster & more her pace. This hadn't bothered me before as I had never had any trust issues with him & didn't mind they together at the same races as me. I remember being so proud of myself that day after completing that race. My parents came from out of state to support me, my husband was there. After it was over we were all walking to our cars (me, husband, kids, parents & the two sisters I run with) & my husband was walking ahead of me with her. I remember it & thinking 'wow, he's not even walking next to me & asking about my race'

I spoke to my best friend & read her the message. She immediately was shocked as was I, & told me this wasn't acceptable & that I should be concerned. I was beginning to freak out. I confronted him about the message & told him I was not ok with him asking her to breakfast when I wasn't around & the behavior/messages was starting to concern me. He became very angry & we argued about it. He told me I wasn't his mother & I couldn't tell him who he could hang out with. This was 2 yrs ago, so I don't remember everything said at this point, but he did begrudgingly agree to stop. I began checking phone records after this & saw the very next morning on his way to work he called her. I confronted him again & he told me that he called her to tell her how he truly felt about her & wanted to see if there was a chance for the two of them to be together. I was stunned. 

Here is where it all gets a little foggy for me. All of the above happened in & around Sept. 2013. By the first week of October 2013 he told me he was leaving me. That even if there wasn't a chance with her, he still wanted a new life, something different for himself & that didn't include me. He was gone for a week or so, & we did speak during that time & eventually decided to reconcile. I had been doing a lot of reading here & realized he seemed to be in the 'fog' that's always mentioned. All of this was very new to me & I had up until that point never had a clue what was going on. I felt so stupid & blindsided by all of it. 

He had agreed to stop the steroids, which I knew had to be having an effect on his thinking/emotions. Again, things are a bit fuzzy about what went on after that initial 'separation'. I had spoke the running friend. She told me he was the one doing the pursuing & she turned him down & I believed her. I was still unclear as to why she never told me about it though. I am 100% certain that nothing ever came of that situation between them, but the story isn't over yet. Anyway, he's home at this point & we're supposed to be working on things.

Come Christmas time, he started with the irrational thinking again about needing 'something new' We celebrated Christmas as a family, & come NYE, I approached him about what was bothering him. He was acting different & I wanted to know what was going on. He didn't want to talk & I pressed the issue. Finally, he got up & left. I began calling/texting & he wouldn't respond. I used the Find My iPhone app & tracked him to an apt. complex downtown which I knew to be a coworker of his. I'm sure there was a party going on. He was there the whole NYE night. Came home way after midnight. This is something he had never done before. 

When I approached him the next evening to discuss what had happened the night before, he just started stone faced at the tv & refused to speak. I sat next to him & kept asking-I know, I should've dropped it but at this point I was really bewildered at his behavior the last couple of months & couldn't leave it alone. He suddenly looked at me with a look I've never seen on his face in my life & said 'Do you want to die?' in the most callous sounding voice & flattest affect on his face. I immediately jumped up off the couch & without even realizing what I was doing I called 911. He was arrested. He went to jail for a few days. When he got out, the court had put a protection order in place to where we were not allowed to speak or contact in any way. I didn't want that to happen. I was terrified but not just for me, for him. I had never seen him this way. He was a different person. Something was clearly WRONG on so many levels. I never wanted him to get arrested. I thought they'd just make him leave for the night. I was very naive/ignorant to this sort of situation, I'd never been in it before. 

His parents came from out of state & relayed some messages to me about his state of mind after they bailed him out of jail. He was getting a lawyer. He was divorcing me. Again, I was flabbergasted. I was panicking, I was overwhelmed, I was desperate. WTF was happening?? It was almost out of nowhere. I began to think mental illness was at play here. Court dates came, the protection order lifted & he was given a misdemeanor harassment charge but under the veil of domestic violence. He was sentenced to 1 yr probation & had some DV classes to attend for most of that year. Again we talked, he agreed to put the divorce on hold & after a few weeks of talking while he was living in an apt, we again agreed to work things out. We also began MC. He was having a hard time forgiving me for calling the cops on him. He was traumatized from being locked up & held that against me. i was shocked he wasn't taking any responsibility for making the threatening remark to me in the 1st place. I was willing to be patient though & figured it would get worked out in time with the counseling. He also was diagnosed bipolarII & adhd. He was seeing a psychiatrist for meds for these issues also.

At the middle of Feb.2014, he left again. I was tired of this game. What was wrong with him?? I talked with my best friend & she convinced me to do more snooping. At that time I began noticing copious amounts of text msgs & mms (pic messages) between him & another number at all hours of the day/night. We & all of our family & friend are from another state. We live in another state away from all of them. These texts/pics were between him & a number local to our home state. I counted from what I remember at least 25+ PAGES of these between the two numbers. I did more investigating & found the number to be between him & a cousin of his from back home. I was somewhat relieved but still curious. My friend I always consulted with was also confused & didn't know what to think. I did at this point have a lawyer. Papers had been filed. He had his lawyer also. I continued to use Find My iPhone to keep track of his whereabouts. We were still speaking, some days he was fine & seemed to be able to have coherent conversations, other days he was very standoffish & a straight up a**hole to me. I still had hopes at this point of reconciling. I really felt like he wasn't in a stable mindset to be making all of these life altering decisions. He was very clearly not well. We would meet & have talks about what we were doing & what was wrong with him. I spent a lot of time trying to make him see he was sick, something was wrong, & for him to please stop this! 

I met him one night for dinner. I never brought up the texts/pics I was aware of. He acted like his old self, & I had a glimmer of hope that maybe he was coming around. After dinner, I had hoped we were going to go home together, but he was in a hurry to leave. I thought maybe I was pushing it too fast, so I reluctantly agreed & we went our separate ways with me crying all the way home. I used Find My iPhone & saw he wasn't back at the apt that night. He actually went out of town & then the next day the phone had no signal but was frozen at what looked like a house in a town about an hour away. It was like that for the entire weekend. This was approx. mid March 2014. I obsessively checked the Find My iPhone app all weekend, finally on Sun. the icon was in motion & it was headed back towards the apt. I was on the phone with my friend as I backed out of the driveway to head him off & follow him. My heart was racing. Even now as I type this, I remember it like it was yesterday. 

Ended up I timed it perfectly. I was at a red-light as he crossed me. Only, he wasn't driving, a woman was. I was screaming on the phone to my friend as I followed them. When we got to the apt, I parked right along side them & she jumped out & took off walking. I opened his door & screamed at him to get in my car. He was clearly intoxicated/hungover/not well looking. BTW, the person who got out the car was his cousin from our home state that he had been obsessively texting. He got in our car & I asked him what the actual FU*K was going on. He came clean. He had just spent the entire weekend holed up in a cabin snorting cocaine & drinking & banging his cousin. 

I took him home, put him in bed, & tried to settle my mind & figure out what was going to be my next step. I looked through his phone & found he had been planning this for a while. He'd bought her a plane ticket to get her out here. They had been sexting. I called her husband to expose them to him & he refused to believe it. I guess I can understand that. If I hadn't actually caught them, I wouldn't believe it either. Upstairs he was freaking out, thinking someone was coming for him, that someone followed him home & was going to murder us all. Holding his hands over his ears & yelling 'make it stop, make it stop' I took him to the hospital & they said he was fine, it was just coming off the cocaine making him like that & sent us on our way. 

I waited a few days to give him time for a clear head so we could talk. I should mention my husband has a long, horrific history of some of the most twisted & evil child abuse anyone could possibly suffer. He admitted what happened with this cousin wasn't the first time, it had happened when they were teenagers as well & she was also known to be with other male cousins in the family. This makes me want to vomit even while typing it. It's so sick & disgusting. He cried, told me how sorry he was, let him make it up to me, he was going to get help for himself. He admitted to doing drugs the entire time since he left the first time back in Oct. 2013. He also had never stopped the steroids. This was in addition to the psych meds he was taking that were prescribed. No wonder none of it was helping. 

Again, stupidly? I agreed to give this one last shot. I felt like I forgave him. I chalked it up to being in a mania from the bipolar & all of the drugs/alcohol in his system. He had to go to these classes & we were told we could no longer legally get MC because since it was a DV charge, he had to do all of the classes ordered by the courts first. That meant from the time I busted him in March 2014 until Oct. 2014 we were unable to deal with what happened. At least, I haven't been able to. I'm in IC, but I don't feel it's helping me deal with it with him together. 

He's now at a place where he's moved on & he says 'I thought you forgave me?' when I say we need counseling to help me. I don't feel he's ever put me first even after all he's done. Things were going ok while he was doing the classes & we were getting along, but for me it's been me being patient while he fixed himself so we can fix us. I've been putting me off for a long time because he even said he can't worry about me until he fixes him. 

Now I want to leave. I feel I've given him so many chances & I've given so much I have nothing left at this point. How much can one person handle? I think I've finally found my limit. 

I could keep going, but if you've read this far-THANK YOU, & I'll explain more as you require or ask of me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So what's keeping you from moving on?


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

More of the story, EleGirl....I've been a SAHM for the last 5 yrs. He had a good paying job that allowed me to do so. I had a job before we moved away from our home state, but due to the ages of our kids at the time & child care reasons, I never went back after we left. 

Now that it's been longer than 2 yrs since I've worked in my profession, I have to take a refresher course to get my license back. I am currently in the process of doing so. Hopefully only have a couple of months or so left of that, it is self paced but I'm trying my best to get through it quickly.

He was laid off at the start of March this year. He just left to start a new job today. It took him out of state for training purposes. These last 3 mos of him being home every single day all day long really got to me. I'm a take charge type of person. As soon as he was laid off I was in 'do something' mode. Helping him file for unemployment & other assistance for our family as needed. I got enrolled in the course to get myself back to work. I study every single day for hours on end, he sat there in the same spot on the couch day in & day out playing this game on his phone. Gaming has always been his escape & he literally does it for hours & hours on end to avoid any issues. He got a job a month or so ago & quit after one week without even calling or letting the know. He just didn't show up. I was very put off by that. He's almost 40, what a childish way to quit a job. He was just holding out for his old job to come back, which it did & that's where he's off to today. 

Anyway, what's been keeping from moving on? Well, the SAHM piece is a big one. I've been with him since I was 18 yrs old (i'm 35 now) I don't know any other way of life than this & the thought is quite terrifying to say the least. I know I must have some codependent issues, I've always been the one to rescue him from himself. I've lost (or am losing) myself in the process & I recognize this. He has gone back & forth with refusing to go to MC & then saying he'll go. It's always me that has to set everything up though. I want him to take some initiative also, but I don't think he will. I feel he owes a lot more to this marriage than he's giving. I don't think he has it in him to do much. He views his role as financial provider to the family, he doesn't see much past that. I know he loves the kids, but he's never been they type to do anything with them. He provides for them. That's pretty much it. I've always done everything else. Pay the bills, cook, clean, laundry, run all the errands, go to all school meetings/functions, make the decisions on vacations-where to go, what to do, you get the idea. 

I guess I'm just starting to realize a lot of things. I don't know why it's taken me this long. Like I said, fear of the unknown is really huge. The thought I life without him is both liberating & yet terrifying all at once. We've had a couple of these talks in the last few weeks. He knows what I'm thinking. We haven't been intimate or even cuddled in about 2.5 months now. I mostly just feel annoyed by his presence most of the time & I feel terrible saying that but it's true. I'm all alone here hundreds of miles away from anyone I know & I'm dealing with it alone. I've just been plugging along with my course so that I can get a job & be in a better place for my & my kids to be able to make the break. That's been the plan for a few weeks now. But then I always find myself doubting that decision & I go back & forth. I'm just in a really confused & fearful space in my head right now.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

You are really up against it if he has no clue how all of his issues have affected you and the marriage . He may not even be capable of being a good partner because of all of the work he has to do on himself. It is possible you are fighting a losing battle.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think it would help you if you consulted with a lawyer (or lawyers) and did some research on the internet to find out your rights. 

You can often find some lawyers who will give a half hour to first time 1-.5 hour consultation for free. 

In most places you can file for divorce and request immediate child support and spousal support. There is a thing calling "interim support" that is in place until the divorce is final. then after the divorce, there is spousal support or alimony. It's usually dependent on your circumstances and how long you have been married. In some places it's half the length of the marriage. If the marriage is over 10 years it's can be as long as lifetime.

Most places also have rehabilitative spousal support. This way you can get support from him until you have finished your courses, have your license renewed and have a job. 

You are probably entitled to 50% of assets. 

You will most likely get child support until the children are 18. You can even put in the divorce stipulations about him helping them with college.

If you know what your right are you will be better able to asses what to do next.

Filing for divorce will actually protect you and your children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

File might also be such a shock that it wakes him up.

Right now he thinks that he is calling the shots and you love him so much that you will never divorce him. You are his rock. Show him that he's kicking his only real support to the curb by what he is going.. file.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

Yes, SecondTime, that has actually been said by me. He has refused my multiple requests for him to go back to IC for himself. I know he knows he needs it, but he refuses to go. He's been very adamant about that. I think he can't face his past. He was going on & off for a while to a couple of different therapists, but he never stayed long, not even a year. Same thing with MC, we'd find one, start going, & then he'd find something about the therapist he didn't like & say for me to find another one. I'd do that , but same thing again. Now he's saying he'll do MC, but that's it. I just don't believe it's going to help if he's not in IC also. I am in IC & have been for the last couple of years. 

Also, our DD16, is in counseling as well. Most of her time is spent discussing seeing her dad arrested & how much that has deeply traumatized her. She's currently on meds & was even hospitalized last year for being a 'cutter'. He's done so much damage to all of us & won't take the steps needed to remedy it. Which at this point, I feel may not be possible. I wish it was. I want it to be, but I also know him. When I try to explain to him things I need from him in order to help me heal, he'll have an outburst where he tells me something like 'oh yeah, i need to complete your list of things I need to do & ways I need to be in order for you to be happy' When he puts it that way, it makes me feel like I'm some demanding bit*h who can't ever be satifisifed & that's not it at all! 

I just want him to acknowledge my hurt & my needs. He either won't or he's not capable. It think it's a little of both. Often I find myself wondering how the hell did we get here? He claims he thought everything was better because we had been getting along ok before he lost his job. I was waiting for him to get better so that we could work on us! But that never happened. We kind of just got on with life. I guess me having no choice but to work towards getting my back into my field of work had made me realize maybe I could do this without him. Whereas before, when the cheating & drugs was exposed, I was really stuck & maybe at that time I thought I had to forgive him because what else was I gonna do? Where was I gonna go? It was all a terribly stressful time.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I think it would help you if you consulted with a lawyer (or lawyers) and did some research on the internet to find out your rights.
> 
> You can often find some lawyers who will give a half hour to first time 1-.5 hour consultation for free.
> 
> ...


I would likely use the lawyer I had used the last time when he had a lawyer & was wanting to file. I know from that experience I would receive spousal support but the cheating would have no bearing on the divorce in our state. As for assets, we really don't have any. We have a car with a really high note on it. We rent & rent is expensive in our area. He's been laid off for the last 3 mos & in order to survive financially we had to pull our retirement account to live off of, so that's almost gone as well. He's just starting his new job today, & I've done the math-he'd barely be able to afford child support, our rent, his rent, the car note, let alone spousal support for me. 

This is why I was trying to hold off on anything until I was able to get back to work, which at this point is looking like the end of the summer, hopefully. But at the same time, I've been going crazy having to wait. I just feel like that's my only option right now-waiting.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

BJJmom said:


> I would likely use the lawyer I had used the last time when he had a lawyer & was wanting to file. I know from that experience I would receive spousal support but the cheating would have no bearing on the divorce in our state. As for assets, we really don't have any. We have a car with a really high note on it. We rent & rent is expensive in our area. He's been laid off for the last 3 mos & in order to survive financially we had to pull our retirement account to live off of, so that's almost gone as well. He's just starting his new job today, & I've done the math-he'd barely be able to afford child support, our rent, his rent, the car note, let alone spousal support for me.
> 
> This is why I was trying to hold off on anything until I was able to get back to work, which at this point is looking like the end of the summer, hopefully. But at the same time, I've been going crazy having to wait. *I just feel like that's my only option right now-waiting.*


Unfortunately, it probably is.

I see a lot of things in your H that I see in my STBX.

My STBX has been loosely diagnosed with ADHD and it's also been strongly suggested to me he is bi-polar.

I can TOTALLY imagine him turning to me and asking in a serious way if I wanted to die.

Early childhood abuse he refuses to discuss.

My SBTX is in IC counseling now, but who knows how effective it is since some topics are off limits. I honestly do not think he'll ever be capable of being a good partner .


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BJJmom said:


> I just want him to acknowledge my hurt & my needs. He either won't or he's not capable. It think it's a little of both.


You will need to accept that he cannot hear what you say or what you need. Why? Because he's put himself into an emotional place where he is non-functional basically, or maybe better said that he only hears the ranting in his own head. 

You talk about his childhood abuse, bi-polar, his meds, the steroids cocaine and probably other drugs. These things left his mind open to the crazies from things like his childhood abuse, him over inflating his own selfish wants. He's lost right now. Has thrown him into what is probably an extended mania phase. I’ve seen this happen. I can look like all out schizophrenia. He probably has had trouble knowing the difference between reality and the versions of things in his head.

You are right, he does not want to and at the same time cannot. They are not mutually exclusive. If he acknowledges it, then he has to face that he’s really messed up. But he does no see himself as that bad guy. His abusers were the bad guys. He’s the victim. He has to keep that image of himself. So he won’t go there. And they cannot because his brain has been fried with abuse, steroids, coke, etc.

I've had some dealing with people who abuse drugs. Especially bi-polar people who do this.. He's not coming back to reality until he wants to. Right now he probably enjoys the crazy too much. It's giving him some payoff that nothing else can. He is no longer the guy you once knew. Sadly, you need to accept this.



BJJmom said:


> Often I find myself wondering how the hell did we get here? He claims he thought everything was better because we had been getting along ok before he lost his job. I was waiting for him to get better so that we could work on us! But that never happened.


In his head it’s all about him. He felt ok so of course everything was ok. He has yet to realize that you actually have feelings and needs. You are just there to take care of his feelings and needs. I wonder if he has developed some narcissistic tendencies.


BJJmom said:


> We kind of just got on with life. I guess me having no choice but to work towards getting my back into my field of work had made me realize maybe I could do this without him. Whereas before, when the cheating & drugs was exposed, I was really stuck & maybe at that time I thought I had to forgive him because what else was I gonna do? Where was I gonna go? It was all a terribly stressful time.


It’s very easy and typical to feel trapped when you are a SAHM. Shoot, it’s easy to feel trapped even when working and yet having children with the person. But at some point you need to put your needs and your children’s needs first. I think that time has come.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Unfortunately, it probably is.
> 
> I see a lot of things in your H that I see in my STBX.
> 
> ...


I hear myself in what you say, SecondTime. For me, he had discussed all of the ugly things from his childhood that he witnessed & things that had been done to him. So I knew everything, or so I thought, until he told me the thing with his cousin had happened before we met back when he was a teenager. I was so stunned. I was so very disgusted. He had brought me around these people for visits in the past. I felt so stupid! I couldn't believe I was around her & had my kids around her all the while this had happened before when they were younger & I was oblivious. 

Even now, 14 mos after the day I discovered everything, I still think about it. A couple of weeks ago I was driving down the road & I could have sworn I saw her & it made me so sick I had to pull over. Of course it wasn't her, but that's the thing he doesn't understand. I may have forgiven him, but I've not forgotten. I'll never forget. I think about it everyday. I've never thrown it in his face. But he thinks that's what I'm doing when I told him it still affects me. He says that's my problem that I should be working on in IC. I asked him, 'Don't you realize everyone else is in IC talking about something you've done to them & you're the only one here NOT going?' Clearly that's not ok.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You will need to accept that he cannot hear what you say or what you need. Why? Because he's put himself into an emotional place where he is non-functional basically, or maybe better said that he only hears the ranting in his own head.
> 
> You talk about his childhood abuse, bi-polar, his meds, the steroids cocaine and probably other drugs. These things left his mind open to the crazies from things like his childhood abuse, him over inflating his own selfish wants. *He's lost right now. Has thrown him into what is probably an extended mania phase.* I’ve seen this happen. I can look like all out schizophrenia. He probably has had trouble knowing the difference between reality and the versions of things in his head.
> 
> ...


Are you saying he's still manic? I don't believe so. He has religiously taken his meds as that experience did scare him. I've been with him to his psych doc who does think he's in a depressed state because he had been laid off of his job. He's definitely been depressed, he will even say he knows he is.

Again, I know this to be true. He was definitely manic at the time all of the drug use, the leaving, & the cheating episode happened. This was all over a year ago, not sure if that was clear or not. Lately the behavior problem is definitely his depressed state due to him being laid off. I know that he's been on his meds, I watch him take them. But again, the meds are not the cure all as I've told him. He should be in IC as well, but refuses. I'm just tired of the roller coaster he takes me on. And I do believe he doesn't think I'll go through with it as you said. We've been down this road before. I've never felt this way about it before though. The other times, it was all his doing, & I knew he was making decisions while in a sick state of mind. This time, we're both more level headed about it, but I still don't think he's convinced I'll go through with it. Sometimes, I'm not sure I can go through with it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

With a bi-polar person, both extremes can have some not so good things that they do to the minds of the person.

Have you considered make a written list of what you need from him. Then sitting him down and telling him that this is what you need and if he does not work with you on it you will divorce him.

It might just scare him enough to get him motivated.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I'm really sorry but your husband is so mentally and emotionally damaged with his history of sexual abuse, drug taking, etc that he doesn't know how
to treat himself well never mind you and the children.

he needs to realise this and do something about it otherwise he will drag you and your family down into the gutter with him. Sometimes we cannot rescue those
we love, they have to hit rock bottom and claw their own way out. The more you are there to support him, to run to him, the more he will abuse you and do whatever he wants.

It is painful but you have to draw a line and mentally tell yourself enough. Ignore him and what he is doing (do the 180 on him whether he is home or not). Focus on
getting your own career back on track, your counselling and your kids.

When all your ducks are in a row, ask him to leave, by then you will be independent enough to make your own choices regardless of whether he is better or not.
You cannot nor should you babysit him forever.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I would say he may not be experiencing mania presently, but he definitely is lifeless and soulless without the drugs and the risky sex. This is what you would call someone a "dry drunk": someone who is not presently using or acting out, yet has not addressed the void that his self-destruction had caused...is just walking in a depressed, purposeless haze.

Yes, dealing with it may be very hard for him to cope. Some people, such as my STBX, have been triggered to act out while trying to address her past traumas.

Whatever the case, your H is not a whole, healthy person...and will cannot be a truly healthy and functioning husband and father for as long as he bottles it up and runs away. My suggestion at this point would be to take his butt to church and get him surrounded with other men who have struggled with their own demons but found a fresh start.

At the same time, there is a point where you have to consider your own sanity and your daughter. So much focus and energy has been given obsessively over to "How is he going to be today?" and your life revolves around someone who is not willing to heal nor able to heal his family.

You cannot be his salvation...you pretty much need to get out of the way, so that he must face things of his own choosing, his own initiative. You may be thinking, "Yeah, but if I don't line things up for him, he NEVER will!" Is this a relationship dynamic that you want to always have?? Your husband has been free to knock his food from his baby tray with someone always being there to clean it up. Your husband now needs to learn on his own how to be an adult and eat like a grown up. You need to learn how to prepare yourself for a life without cleaning up others' messes.

Get your focus off of him. Start working on your identity and start to help develop that in your daughter. You may have fearful thoughts as to what your H may fall into if you back off, but there must come a point when you must find equilibrium here, otherwise you will remain in this dysfunction. Learn what a healthy person and healthy relationship looks like and this start to do your part by setting boundaries...even if one of those boundaries means pulling the plug.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Filing might also be such a shock that it wakes him up.

Right now he thinks that he is calling the shots and you love him so much that you will never divorce him. You are his rock. Show him that he's kicking his only real support to the curb by what he is going.. file.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> With a bi-polar person, both extremes can have some not so good things that they do to the minds of the person.
> 
> *Have you considered make a written list of what you need from him. Then sitting him down and telling him that this is what you need and if he does not work with you on it you will divorce him*.
> 
> It might just scare him enough to get him motivated.


I have not actually written anything down, but I have been very clear with him on multiple occasions. Being forced to wait by the court to be able to get MC together really interfered with R for us I believe. I think if we'd been allowed to go straight away, maybe things would be different now? Or not. He's a messed up person & I am aware of this now more than ever. 

Now that all of the legal issues are resolved, I wanted to revisit the MC with him. Like I said before, he says he's willing but after the last 3 months of his lay off from work, something changed in me & the way I feel about all of it. I think MC at this point is not something I want to do anymore. We've been down that road multiple times in the past, it never works out.

I know that filing will devastate him. It will devastate me. It will devastate our kids. But I don't feel there's other options for me anymore. I want a happy life with a stable & man. He's not stable & he's not happy.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

aine said:


> *I'm really sorry but your husband is so mentally and emotionally damaged with his history of sexual abuse, drug taking, etc that he doesn't know how
> to treat himself well never mind you and the children.*
> 
> he needs to realise this and do something about it otherwise he will drag you and your family down into the gutter with him. Sometimes we cannot rescue those
> ...


Yep, that's definitely him. He knows it. He's aware of it. He can verbalize this to you. But he's not willing to do the IC right now. He has attempted it in the past, but does not stick with it for long. 

I admit, I am a rescuer. That's exactly what I talked about in my original post. After his drug/alcohol fueled weekend with his cousin I took him home to help him get sober & clear headed again. I called his psych doc & told him what was going on. I called his work & got him a few days off. 

I won't lie about how I feel inside & what my fears are. He told me in the past when he's left, he sat alone in the apt & considered suicide. This is my biggest fear about going through with my current plan. I am terrified that he will hurt himself. As much as he's F-ed up, his entire identity as far as he's concerned is being a provider for his family. If he doesn't have us, I don't know what he'd do. Again, I realize this is a form of emotional blackmail of sorts. 

I have finally come to the point where I can't let that fear consume me & dictate my life decisions. I do love him & wish that he could help himself. I know right now, he can't. That makes me so terribly sad. 

I have been studying relentlessly to finish this course. I am getting everything lined up & trying to have a plan in place.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

FormerSelf said:


> I would say he may not be experiencing mania presently, *but he definitely is lifeless and soulless *without the drugs and the risky sex. This is what you would call someone a "dry drunk": someone who is not presently using or acting out, yet has not addressed the void that his self-destruction had caused...is just walking in a depressed, purposeless haze.
> 
> Yes, dealing with it may be very hard for him to cope. Some people, such as my STBX, have been triggered to act out while trying to address her past traumas.
> 
> ...


That is exactly what our daughter said to me just the other day. Her exact words to me were "He's like a shell of a person. I don't know why you're with him. He's never going to change." Yeah. That struck me really hard to hear her say that. 

As for church. When all the crazy was happening last year, I started going. Once the dust settled, I asked him to start coming as well & he won't do it. I've since stopped also, but I know the reason he won't go is because it will force him to look at things he probably doesn't want to look at. He feels guilt somewhere inside & going to church would be something he couldn't do since he can't face himself. 

This is NOT the dynamic I want anymore. I realize now it's been that way for our entire relationship. We were kids when we got together-I was 18, he was 20. Now we're 35 & 37. I've grown up being with this one person for my entire adulthood. With growth comes life experience & realizations. That's where I'm at now. I've grown, I've realized what I want in my life & being another man's "mother" figure is NOT it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you do decide to continue with the marriage, consider writing down what you need from him and giving it to him, even having him sign it as proof that he's read it. The reason for this is that then he cannot forget it. He can read and re-read it. Plus it creates a feeling of a contract, of responsibility.

Part of the problem with people with issues like his is that they might hear you in the moment but they do retain what you say. Plus there is a tendency for a person to hear a lot of words and not be able to filter out the important points. By writing it down you can make the list of important points. Another thing that happens in conversation is that it's very hard to stay on topic. So the meandering of a conversation tends to de-emphasize the important points.

Just a thought.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BJJmom said:


> That is exactly what our daughter said to me just the other day. Her exact words to me were "He's like a shell of a person. I don't know why you're with him. He's never going to change." Yeah. That struck me really hard to hear her say that.
> 
> As for church. When all the crazy was happening last year, I started going. Once the dust settled, I asked him to start coming as well & he won't do it. I've since stopped also, but I know the reason he won't go is because it will force him to look at things he probably doesn't want to look at. He feels guilt somewhere inside & going to church would be something he couldn't do since he can't face himself.
> 
> This is NOT the dynamic I want anymore. I realize now it's been that way for our entire relationship. We were kids when we got together-I was 18, he was 20. Now we're 35 & 37. I've grown up being with this one person for my entire adulthood. With growth comes life experience & realizations. That's where I'm at now. I've grown, I've realized what I want in my life & being another man's "mother" figure is NOT it.


This is so sad.

When I was married to my son's father, my then 6 year old son gave me a similar talk. He told me (not asked) that I had to divorce his father because he was abusive and did not treat either of us very well. He gave me that talk a few times.

What the little guy did not know is that I was laying the ground work for leaving but did not feel that I should burden a 6 year old with the details. I just told him that he was right and it would happen one of these days.

Children are very perceptive. 

We see a lot of marriages here that start young. Then both or one end up changing dramatically for the worse. It's often some kind of mental illness that causes the changes and the problems.

Many mental illnesses do not really set in until a person is in their late teen years or early 20s. I've seen this happen in my real life. It's very sad and devastates a lot of people around them as well. 

Your husband adding drugs to the mix made it many times worse. Often times they add to drugs to self medicate. My step son has some mental health issues. He's in about the same place now that your husband was a while back.

One thing that I have read about situation like this is that martial recovery cannot happen while there are issues ... well the long list of the types of issues you have been struggling with. Your husband has to handle his own problems first. Since it's not good for you and your kids to live in the emotional turmoil caused by your problems at least separation is usually suggested... even legal separation. Then the spouse with the problems can live on their own and work on fixing the issues in themselves.

Only after that happens does the couple consider reconciliation and working on the marriage. It's an alternative I wanted to put out there for you just in case. I'm not necessarily suggesting it, just pointing it out.


It's tragic to see this happen to him, you and your kids. I'm so sorry that you have had this visited upon you.

However, you sound like a strong woman with a good head on your shoulders. I think that you will come out of this ok. With your there, your children probably will as well.

Whatever you decide, you will probably be fine.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BJJ Mom, you cannot allow you H to blackmail you into anything. He is old enough to make his own choices and take what comes. You need to be mentally and emotionally strong for your children. 

He can still be the provider, that does not change, he can still be a better man but he has to be willing to make the changes through counselling, therapy, church, etc. What changes is that you will no longer be there to pick up the pieces for him. Let him know that. 

You are probably co-dependent due to the years of taking care of him. I was in that position for years due to my husband's abuse of alcohol. The most recent event involved him getting legless and arriving home 2 hours before a flight for a family holiday. I left him asleep in the bed and went on the holiday without him (which was great), the old me would have struggled with getting him there, dealing with his alcoholic fog, his mood the next day, etc, the new me, said I'm going to enjoy this with or without him and off i went. Of course he was mad but I pointed out that it was not my job to deal with his drinking, he was home alone as a consequence of his own actions, not mine. He never mentioned it again! The drinking has reduced considerably and I will do the same again if the occasion arises. We try to control the unmanageable, keep all the balls in the air when it is not our actions that is causing our misery. Let the balls fall! Take care of yourself and the children.

You might consider attending an Al-anon or Nar-anon to help you with the co-dependency, to help you get strong and remove yourself from his problems


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

Thanks for all responses. Here is where I find myself constantly going back to-what I'm struggling with the most. As I mentioned, we've done MC before-3 times that I can recall right off. The first time, we stopped because we moved out of state. Once we started up in our new state, he found he didn't like her & didn't want to go anymore. I found us a new one & again, we stopped going. In between those 3 times is when all of the crap that I've explained in this post went down. When I've mentioned going back, he said he didn't want to. 

Now that I told him what my plan is after I'm done with my course to get back to work, he says he wants to go back to MC again. I find myself struggling with that. Part of me says I should, be the other (louder) part of me says why bother? I go back & forth ALL DAY long with this thought. I strongly feel like I just want to move on, but there's still that nagging part that says MC again. I'm very conflicted with this & it's making me crazy. I think MC would just be prolonging the inevitable like it always has in the past. Why would MC be any different with him this time around? I don't know if this just fear on my part-fear of going through with a separation/D, fear of being on my own for the first time in my adult life, fear of this being final & always be alone & never have a life partner who I would be happy with.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I'm sorry if I missed it but is he still doing steroids? Does the start of the behavior problems coincide with the using of the steroids? The steroids could be the issue if he's still taking them.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

Hi, soccermom, I explained previously that no, he isn't. This all occurred over a year ago at this point.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

So I was just browsing through his email, because yes, after all that has occurred I do feel the need to snoop sometimes. If you recall me mentioning the game on his phone he obsessively plays-I mean obsessively. He plays it ALL THE TIME. I've even woke up in the middle of the night to pee & he's laying there playing it. He plays it in all of this down time. He doesn't do anything else. Gaming has always been an escape. When he was laid off 3 mos ago, he sat in the same spot on the couch every single day (I"m not exaggerating) & played it from the time he got out of bed until we went to bed, & even then he'd play it in bed till going to sleep.

Anyway, it's a game on his phone that he has apparently been purchasing add-ons for through iTunes. Each add-on package he's buying is $99.99. Just in the last few weeks that I saw in his email there were at least 7 of those receipts. That's $700!!!! He's putting it on a credit card that I'm not sure I'm even aware of. The card it's charging to is not one I get statements for. WTF?? 

Currently he's out of state for his new job, so he's not home but I decided to look in the email today & noticed all of these. How would I approach this? We don't have the money for him to be charging that sort of thing to credit cards. He's doing it every few days! That's ridiculous! I don't want him to know I saw, but at the same time I need him to stop doing this. We can't afford this!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*

I'm sorry you're in such a bad situation.

My wife was sexually abused as a young child. Though I am not sure of the exact type of abuse your husband experienced, or at what ages, I think the abuse is a major factor in all of the issues you brought up in your post. Abuse changes the child's brain, and it badly distorts their understanding of the world.

Nothing substantive is going to change until he deals with the abuse issue via qualified trauma therapy. Such therapy will take years, and will not reverse all the damage done to him. Drugs and alcohol will be their own major issue for him to overcome.

You don't have to sacrifice your life for him. You have every right to walk away to save yourself.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*



Thor said:


> I'm sorry you're in such a bad situation.
> 
> My wife was sexually abused as a young child. Though I am not sure of the exact type of abuse your husband experienced, or at what ages, I think the abuse is a major factor in all of the issues you brought up in your post. Abuse changes the child's brain, and it badly distorts their understanding of the world.
> 
> ...


THIS is what I've been trying to get him to understand for a long while now. He doesn't want to deal. He says that stuff doesn't affect him. Yeah right. 

He's been gone this past week for his new job out of state for some training. Yes, I still periodically check his email. I did so a couple of days ago. He's an obsessive gamer, whether it's on his phone or playstation, when he gets going it's for HOURS. I'm talking (no exaggeration here) from the time he wakes up until we go back to bed that night. Sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night & he's awake laying in bed playing. It's his escape. It's what he's always used as a way of avoiding dealing with issues. Anyway, checked his email & there's receipts from iTunes-multiple receipts. Just in the last couple of weeks or so there's over $1000 worth of downloads for these add-ons from this game on his phone he constantly plays. He's putting them on a credit card that I don't have access to so I'm not even sure how much more there are that I don't know about yet. We cannot afford this type of frivolous spending, especially for something as insignificant as games! I'm not sure how to approach this with him or if I even should. He doesn't know I know.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

Is there something I'm not doing correctly here? I've gotten maybe 2-3 people responding but well over 1100 views on my post!


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

I know no one is responding anymore, but I have no one to talk to so I'm going to write it down to myself here. I have to get it out somewhere. 

Today I'm sitting here with my coffee & I'm wondering as I sit here & read other members' posts. I don't see any other situations like mine, where their husband's cheated with a family member. It makes my stomach turn to even type that, let alone think about it. Even a year later, it disgusts me. 

For a while, I thought I could let it go. I wanted to work this out with him & he of course was more than happy to move on from it also. I wonder about the things I told myself in order to be able to do that. Things like-he was in the midst of an episode of an (at that time) undiagnosed, untreated mental illness, he's suffered through unspeakable acts of horrific childhood abuse of all types, this isn't him being a "cheater" so to speak, it's not his fault (to a certain extent), it's not like this is something he's ever done or likely will do again. Those are all the things I've been telling myself. But you know what? None of that is making me feel better anymore. I have extreme feelings of sympathy for him. I feel sorry for him. But I want someone to have those feelings towards me & the amount of CRAP I have been through because of his actions. No one asks me how I'm doing. No one asks me what they can do for me to help me out. I'm lying, my therapist does, but I pay her so I don't think that counts. I just feel he was too happy to just move on & not have to discuss this further. Of course I know he's sorry. I just expected more out of that. I didn't get it. Life just went back to 'normal' & I feel all the things I felt needed discussing or dealt with never happened. Sure, we had big talks, long drawn out discussions about things, but it still feels like something is missing. Something doesn't sit well with me over it. I'm not even sure what it is I expect. 

I thought I could go on like this, just letting it go & moving on. That's what he's done. He knows now something is up with me. I've let him know. He's been gone for the last week for his new job. I've not texted or called him once. He's been the one to call. He asked why I wasn't calling. I told him since I don't know his schedule of work over there right now, I figured he'd call when he had time & wasn't busy. He didn't call last night. It almost doesn't bother me. Almost. Of course I'm afraid of all these feelings I'm having & what they mean. I've told my friend I'm leaving him. I've told my mother I'm leaving him. I've told my therapist I'm leaving him. I've told my daughter's therapist I'm leaving him. Then I wonder if I really mean it. I think I do. I want to mean it. But then I don't. I believe a lot of that is due to fear. 

My ramblings for right now.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*

Are you aware that you are a "Secondary Survivor" of his abuse? There is not a large amount of information, nor many good support forums, on the internet. There are some such as AfterSilence, though that one tends to be more for the victims than the secondaries.

Anyhow, you need some support for yourself. I suggest you find a therapist who has a real expertise in trauma therapy and who works with the spouses and family members of abuse victims. Even a good basic counselor can help a lot.

After I learned of my wife's abuse (30 years into our marriage), suddenly it all fit. All the odd and frustrating things made sense. And then the more I learned about the effects of abuse, the more I could see how it impacts everything in her life. You've seen how your husband uses games as a distraction. I bet there are dozens of other things you've seen which are attributable to his abuse.

Eventually it comes down to this: He is an adult with the obligation to take every reasonable effort to be the best possible spouse he can. If he doesn't, you no longer are obligated to make excuses for him. One of my counselors explained it as being similar to alcohol abuse. We would be compassionate about our spouse who develops a dependence on alcohol. We would try to help them, try to explain to them why they need help, and we'd even put up with unacceptable behavior for a while. If they try to get over the problem, we'd stick by them and do what we could to assist. But if they refuse help, or chronically relapse, they have an unfixable defect. And of course we would be sad for them and sad for the loss of the relationship we had with them. But we would also be obligated to take care of ourselves, which means leaving the relationship.

With sex abuse, the Catch-22 is that you can't tell them the abuse is the cause of the problem, but somehow you have to get them to be willing to get therapy for it. I think the way to approach it is to tell them the behavior is unacceptable, and if it doesn't change you cannot stay in the marriage. You can even start with marriage counseling with the hope it leads to him getting IC. But, like the alcoholic, the sex abuse victim needs to have things get bad enough that he/she is willing to seek help. So your job is to stop making things easy and comfortable for him. Cut off his credit card if you can. Demand MC. Stop enabling his bad behaviors.

There is a chance he can get better, but be realistic that he will never get back to "normal" because he never knew normal.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*

In essence, do not martyr your well-being for his. If you are going to spiral downwards with him as a partner, it is time to cut the relationship loose.

As Thor posted, he will never be fully mentally healthy. Years of not dealing with his issues, has formed a big part of who he is. Those issues will always lie beneath the surface, although he may develop tools to deal with flare-up of his past behavior from time to time. He may be addicted with the escape method, since as organism, we learn to avoid pain. His escape is how he learns to avoid dealing with his issues, and he has reinforced that behavior for years on end.

Like learning to ride a bike, you never forget.

As children, due to our environment and genetics, we will develop in certain ways. A child who comes from an abusive home will have more aggression expressed in their genes. A child who is constantly neglected will seek a lot of attention and love or be emotionally stunted because in order to protect themselves, they never show emotions, thus the limbic system does not develop normally.

Due to our neuro plasticity, their is some hope that he can at least improve somewhat. Learning new coping mechanisms, learning to deal with his emotions, can help change him to be more mentally healthy. To what degree, it remains to be seen if he does seek help.

You,yourself, will change in order to deal with his dysfunction. Here is an example. In order to deal with an abusive spouse, the abused spouse will probably operate in fear, afraid of the next outburst. They do not want to be abused, so they change their behavior to avoid the pain and what triggers their abuser's anger.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

BJJmom said:


> Is there something I'm not doing correctly here? I've gotten maybe 2-3 people responding but well over 1100 views on my post!


I have a theory why you're not getting more responses. First, in my case, I rarely haunt this section. However, when I came in and read your opening post the fact that it was with a family member put it straight into a "do not respond" category. No offense intended and I'm not accusing you, but incest themed posts have come up dozens of times since I've been a member here and every single one of them turned out to be a troll.

I've read your most recent update and I don't think you're a troll, which, if I'm right, will make this a unique thread.

So, now that that's out of the way, my advice: File for divorce and have him served. Usually, when I give this advice, I explain that I'm advocating filing for divorce as a way of shocking the wayward out of the affair fog so an honest attempt at R can be made. Not in this case. I'm suggesting you file for divorce and have him served because you need to kick him to the curb like the trash he is. You can and should do much better in a mate than this.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> I have a theory why you're not getting more responses. First, in my case, I rarely haunt this section. However, when I came in and read your opening post the fact that it was with a family member put it straight into a "do not respond" category. No offense intended and I'm not accusing you, but incest themed posts have come up dozens of times since I've been a member here and every single one of them turned out to be a troll.
> 
> *I've read your most recent update and I don't think you're a troll, which, if I'm right, will make this a unique thread.*
> 
> So, now that that's out of the way, my advice: File for divorce and have him served. Usually, when I give this advice, I explain that I'm advocating filing for divorce as a way of shocking the wayward out of the affair fog so an honest attempt at R can be made. Not in this case. I'm suggesting you file for divorce and have him served because you need to kick him to the curb like the trash he is. You can and should do much better in a mate than this.


For once in my life, I wish I were trolling. If members aren't responding because that's what they think, maybe I should just delete this. I didn't come here to screw around with anyone & make up some stupid story for attention. This is my life. I wish it were a silly story for attention. I was so desperate for advice & opinions of others to help me sort through this mess that I posted my story here hoping to get that. I did get it from a couple of posters, but what I mostly got was a bunch of anonymous nosey people look it over & ignoring it without saying a word. 

There are so many posts here that have pages upon pages of responses. I delayed posting my story on here for a long time. I've been conflicted with whether or not I wanted to put this embarrassing & hard to talk about topic on here. It never crossed my mind people would think I was trolling or making it up. 

Thank you for pointing this out & bringing it to my attention. It certainly didn't cross my mind that my post would be looked at that way because I know my intentions were to seek advice/help, not attention. As for your advice, also, thanks. I do plan on (at least that's what I'm telling myself) filing. It's not an easy thing for me to say let alone do. I'm very conflicted & unsure & scared of going through with it.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

BJJmom said:


> For once in my life, I wish I were trolling. If members aren't responding because that's what they think, maybe I should just delete this. I didn't come here to screw around with anyone & make up some stupid story for attention. This is my life. I wish it were a silly story for attention. I was so desperate for advice & opinions of others to help me sort through this mess that I posted my story here hoping to get that. I did get it from a couple of posters, but what I mostly got was a bunch of anonymous nosey people look it over & ignoring it without saying a word.
> 
> There are so many posts here that have pages upon pages of responses. I delayed posting my story on here for a long time. I've been conflicted with whether or not I wanted to put this embarrassing & hard to talk about topic on here. It never crossed my mind people would think I was trolling or making it up.
> 
> Thank you for pointing this out & bringing it to my attention. It certainly didn't cross my mind that my post would be looked at that way because I know my intentions were to seek advice/help, not attention. As for your advice, also, thanks. I do plan on (at least that's what I'm telling myself) filing. It's not an easy thing for me to say let alone do. I'm very conflicted & unsure & scared of going through with it.


You should pm EleGirl and have her consolidate your threads and move them to CWI, it's the highest traffic board and this certainly fits.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I did consolidate the threads and moved them to CWI. I hope you get more input here.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Cocaine, steroid abuse, risky, incestuous sex.

Oh. Dear me, no. That's not good.

How are your children coping?

BTW, serve him with a divorce.

Maybe that'll wake him up.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Even the strongest caretakers and codependents among us can get worn out. Our love just gives up.

I think you are on an inexorable path to divorce. You can pull the band-aid off slowly over time, as you are doing now, or you can rip it off quickly. Either way, in my opinion, you will be living a separate life from your WH soon enough if some serious changes aren't made.

If it weren't for your long history with him, coupled with his illnesses, you would certainly not still be there, no? And now he has replaced his earlier self-medication strategies with relentless gaming. Certainly, this is better than cocaine and sex weekends with a blood cousin, but it is still dysfunctional.

I am a caretaker, too, so I sympathize strongly with your impulse to see this through. Nonetheless, if you don't draw some reasonable and serious lines in the sand for him, you will find yourself continuing as you are now, just slowly, slowly removing the band-aid.

The line in the sand I would suggest is that you demand that he start with IC and stick with it. If he doesn't like the first IC, then you find one that fits. No MC without his IC first. If he doesn't do this, you rip off the band-aid.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Cocaine, steroid abuse, risky, incestuous sex.
> 
> Oh. Dear me, no. That's not good.
> 
> ...


My kids. Our oldest, DD16, wasn't doing well for a long while. Everything crashed down in March 2014. By summer last year, she had runaway once & I found out she was cutting herself. Once school started back up she was cutting classes & caught off campus once. She was hospitalized in late fall for threatening to hurt herself. Since then she's been coming around. She's made comments to me (I mentioned in my OP) about her dad never changing & why did I stick around. She's in counseling & is also on meds as well. I've spent some counseling sessions with her, her dad doesn't come. She's asked him to, but he won't go. Almost every session is entirely about him or ends up becoming about him. It makes me so angry, so sad, not just at him, but myself as well for putting her through this. I feel very much at fault because I choose to stick around & now here we are. 
My younger, DS14, is the opposite. He's an honor student, popular & well liked with many friends, & is generally (seemingly) well adjust happy kid. He loves his dad, doesn't say anything negative about him, loves talking to him about video games they play & basketball.


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

alte Dame said:


> Even the strongest caretakers and codependents among us can get worn out. Our love just gives up.
> 
> I think you are on an inexorable path to divorce. You can pull the band-aid off slowly over time, as you are doing now, or you can rip it off quickly. Either way, in my opinion, you will be living a separate life from your WH soon enough if some serious changes aren't made.
> 
> ...


I think that's what it is. Like I said, I've been with him since I'm 18, I'm 35 now. I don't know what it is to be alone, to be single, to date, to live any other way. Fear of the unknown. And of course, I loved him. I still do, but I feel it's different now. How do you just break off & learn to live another way. I think about it constantly. How do you know when you've done enough? 

I've asked him so many times to go back to IC. He was for a while but stopped because he said they didn't have anything to talk about. Then his next excuse was his job. The business he's in doesn't afford him a 9-5 schedule. He can be working around the clock or just nights & sleeping during the day or he can be gone out of town/state. So then he says it's hard to be able to schedule appointments because he doesn't know when or if he'll be home. I just feel these are excuses. If he wanted it to work, he'd find a way & make it work.


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## TheGoodGuy (Apr 22, 2013)

For what it's worth, I don't think you're a troll, and I'm sorry you're here. My exWW was never officially diagnosed (because she wouldn't keep going to counselling/therapy) but I believe she was BP or BPD or at least heading that way. Straight up IRRATIONAL behavior the last year or so became the norm before she abandoned everyone.

I think they have you moved into the correct forum now so hopefully you'll get plenty of advise and responses. It's true that we don't see cheating with family very often, although LoneShadow's thread tells his story of his WW cheating with his own father. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/212314-wrists.html


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## BJJmom (Jan 24, 2011)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*



Thor said:


> Are you aware that you are a "Secondary Survivor" of his abuse? There is not a large amount of information, nor many good support forums, on the internet. There are some such as AfterSilence, though that one tends to be more for the victims than the secondaries.
> 
> *Anyhow, you need some support for yourself. I suggest you find a therapist who has a real expertise in trauma therapy and who works with the spouses and family members of abuse victims. Even a good basic counselor can help a lot.*
> 
> ...


I have been in IC continuously since before the fallout of last year. I almost never miss an appt. Funny how everyone but him is in therapy! I've never heard of the term 'Secondary Survivor'. 

As for today, I've not heard from him since Friday. He called then to check in & asked why I wasn't making the contact. To be honest, after having him home every single day since March, it's been nice to have some alone time & I haven't really missed him. So I haven't contacted him since he's gone for his new job. He asked why, I said because I don't know his schedule & I figured he'd call when he had time. I think this may have hurt him/upset him in some way so he's since stopped calling. Oh well......He'll be home eventually, probably the end of the week. 

BTW, the course I'm taking to be able to get my license back to get a job in my profession requires a test before moving on to the second part of the course. I'm taking that test tomorrow morning! Super nervous but it's open book & I feel pretty good about it despite my nervousness.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*



BJJmom said:


> I have been in IC continuously since before the fallout of last year. I almost never miss an appt. Funny how everyone but him is in therapy! I've never heard of the term 'Secondary Survivor'.
> 
> As for today, I've not heard from him since Friday. He called then to check in & asked why I wasn't making the contact. To be honest, after having him home every single day since March, it's been nice to have some alone time & I haven't really missed him. So I haven't contacted him since he's gone for his new job. He asked why, I said because I don't know his schedule & I figured he'd call when he had time. I think this may have hurt him/upset him in some way so he's since stopped calling. Oh well......He'll be home eventually, probably the end of the week.
> 
> BTW, the course I'm taking to be able to get my license back to get a job in my profession requires a test before moving on to the second part of the course. I'm taking that test tomorrow morning! Super nervous but it's open book & I feel pretty good about it despite my nervousness.


Good luck with your test!:smthumbup:


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*



BJJmom said:


> I have been in IC continuously since before the fallout of last year. I almost never miss an appt. Funny how everyone but him is in therapy! I've never heard of the term 'Secondary Survivor'.
> 
> As for today, I've not heard from him since Friday. He called then to check in & asked why I wasn't making the contact. To be honest, after having him home every single day since March, it's been nice to have some alone time & I haven't really missed him. So I haven't contacted him since he's gone for his new job. He asked why, I said because I don't know his schedule & I figured he'd call when he had time. I think this may have hurt him/upset him in some way so he's since stopped calling. Oh well......He'll be home eventually, probably the end of the week.
> 
> BTW, the course I'm taking to be able to get my license back to get a job in my profession requires a test before moving on to the second part of the course. I'm taking that test tomorrow morning! Super nervous but it's open book & I feel pretty good about it despite my nervousness.


Are you seeing the c.c. statement online or just a receipt for the purchases for this game? 

You wont even realize how much of a caretaker/rescuer role you have taken on until you gain some distance from this situation. He sounds like he just trades one addiction for another right now. Its all part of the overall denial world they seem to create to not deal with the ultimate issue and that is themselves. 

Even if he tries MC with you it will likely go nowhere long term because the root problem is the demons he carries which he wont truly deal with. He sounds like he needs a great deal of long term work before he really work on any marriage issue. 

Your stuck seemingly in the lose/lose game which happens to too many of the "caretakers". We do everything we can to hold what little together you can which just allows him to not change or you separate or divorce only to give them an excuse to be depressed etc. 

How long has it been since he worked out of town like this?


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Does he know you can read his email? 

FWIW, many games on phones have messaging programs. It sounds like he's really playing but that doesn't mean he's not also using the app to message with someone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

*Re: Infidelity, Drugs, Childhood Abuse, &Mental Illness*



BJJmom said:


> I have been in IC continuously since before the fallout of last year. I almost never miss an appt. Funny how everyone but him is in therapy! I've never heard of the term 'Secondary Survivor'.


I think you need a different counselor. Either that, or you need to direct your IC to go in a different direction. For starters, I would have him/her read this thread. It's a fair bet there are some things you describe one way here and a different way there. 

And you need to be in a support group, like AlAnon. You need to be redirecting your thinking, not just talking about your feelings. You need concrete WORK assigned by your IC for redirecting that thinking.

You are WAY too wrapped up in HIS stuff instead of YOUR stuff. That's why you're not moving forward. Fix what YOU can control - you.


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## golf4ever (Oct 30, 2013)

a life of fear isn't a life at all.


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