# These are the Songs About Jane. A true story/journal of our sex life.



## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm at a loss as to how to achieve a healthy sex life. When I say healthy, I don't mean more frequent. I mean less frustrating, less combative. I'm choosing to keep a log of our sex life here. A lot has gone on in the past and I can't cover it all now, but it will slowly trickle in. I'm writing more to vent my concerns to the world instead of bottling it in. Your comments will be appreciated.


My wife has been telling me that I have a problem with Sex. That I desire it too much and as she put it, I make her feel like she is just a hole for me to put it in. We went to counseling once. The doc wanted to talk to one of us first and I went ahead. I ended up taking the entire session with me telling the Doc everything I have done to try to get my wife more interested in sex with me. The doc basically said I needed help. I went to sex AA and realized that I do have an obsession with sex after hearing the others talk. I've been very passive for the last few weeks, especially with sex. Avoiding anything that will trigger thinking of it. I am no longer making sex jokes or bring up sex at all. I've actually been lax to initiate sex for a few months now. The rejection hurts and I'm at a point that I don't want to feel like I am forcing her. I can't really recall the last time I initiated sex in our 10+ year relationship. We are back to our normal average of sex once every 6 to 21 days. 

A few weeks ago, while on vacation, I told her how I wanted to take her to a particular place where we had once gone and had great sex. We got to the place and i flipped thru the tv looking for a music channel and hit on porn, I asked her if she wanted to watch and she explained to me that she finds porn disgusting, seeing a penis going into a vagina was disgusting, but she will watch it if it helps me. I declined after she told me this and I ended up killing the mood. I just wanted to leave but we spoke for a bit after that and she told me how she really wanted to have sex but hated the fact that the mood was killed. We had little time, I figured it would be worse if we didn't do anything at that point so I started kissing her and we had sex. I waited until she came to finish and she landed on top of me, crying. I told her I was sorry. This was not the first time she has cried after sex, it's usually after really good sex. She enjoyed herself very much this time and later commented how much she enjoyed using my tool as she puts it.

During our vacation, not sure if it was related, but she explained to me that the uncle of hers that I met this week, was the uncle that sexually abused her when she was young. She graciously told me long after he had left so I wouldn't overreact. I initially told her I didn't need to know that. I felt like an a-hole a second after saying it. So I explained that being ignorant of knowing which of her uncles kept my feelings at bay. Now I know who it was, I explained how I was mad at him. How frustrating it made me feel. I told her after meeting him, I now sense the shame that he feels when he greeted me. I told her at first I thought he was sick, but I now see it was shame. I thanked her for sharing with me, she told me she wants me to get to know her so I can understand why she does what she does. Also stated that she has put that behind her.

A week went by and I didn't bring up sex at all. Four days ago, she texts me a picture of some chains. She bought a sex swing for my birthday and we have yet to use it. I simply texted her a smile back. I got home and at night she initiated sex and I went with the flow, for the first time, I didn't talk dirty to her, or took any action, I was my new passive me. It went well, she had pain during sex again so I finished quickly, and she stated that I hurt her a bit. She told me "You see I can get things started" I smiled and thanked her.

Yesterday, I made my first sexy comment to her. She told me how she was hit on by some guys while with the girlfriends. Then her girlfriends were also commenting on how good she looked that nigh. I didn't say anything about it, I just said that when i get home, I want a hot girl to give me a manicure as my nails were long and I love how attentive she is to me when she does it.

I got home, we spent time together and then she asked me to take a shower with her. In the past she has explained that this means she wants to have sex. I found it weird as I can't recall the last time we had sex after only four days going by. We showered, and brushed. Everything was set. I was in bed, naked as I normally sleep, she was in her undees. She was on her phone, so I waited patiently and started falling asleep. I went to grab my phone and she went ahead and turned the lights off and got into bed. I turned my phone off and about a minute went by with both of us being in the bed. I reach over and kiss her good night. She doesn't let go of me and kisses me. I start kissing her back, but she is not being very responsive so I slow down and pull back, and then she starts kissing me again. I lean in to get closer and my privates end up touching her leg. She explained how gross it felt because my penis was a bit humid from the shower. I said OK, no problem, I'll get up and put on underwear. I get back into bed and soon after she explains the mood is gone, that she doesn't know how to explain it but she doesn't want to have sex anymore, it was really late and she had to get up early. She then promised we can start over in the morning and asked me not to be mad. I told her I wasn't mad or disappointed. I don't think she bought it as she kept sighing. I would caress her after hearing her sigh. Morning came, and she got ready for work, gave me a kiss in bed, and left.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Wow. I'm not sure what other issues there are here, but something is not right. Maybe a complete mis match sexually, and lack of attraction among other things.

My STBW can't keep her hands off of me, we frequently sext, sexual banter, sex play all day long, sex 10-15 times a week, a lot of it initiated by her. Hell, she had a pretty major surgery, and was trying to initiate three days later.

My point in telling you that is that there is nothing wrong with you. You are not weird for feeling the way you do, and wanting sex with your wife. Something is not right here.

ETA: Nothing personal in this, but gah...The Album and group your user name is the same as...minor irritation of mine


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Dear OP

Your relationship is fine at the moment. I see no signs of trouble. It might seem that past issues are playing a role here, but I dont believe that is so.

I ll just comment on some few things:

Till here you were doing fine:


> I got home, we spent time together and then she asked me to take a shower with her. In the past she has explained that this means she wants to have sex. I found it weird as I can't recall the last time we had sex after only four days going by. We showered, and brushed. Everything was set. I was in bed, naked as I normally sleep, she was in her undees. She was on her phone, so I waited patiently and started falling asleep. I went to grab my phone and she went ahead and turned the lights off and got into bed. I turned my phone off and about a minute went by with both of us being in the bed. I reach over and kiss her good night. She doesn't let go of me and kisses me. I start kissing her back, but she is not being very responsive so I slow down and pull back, and then she starts kissing me again.


Then:


> *I lean in to get closer and my privates end up touching her leg. She explained how gross it felt because my penis was a bit humid from the shower. I said OK, no problem, I'll get up and put on underwear.* I get back into bed and soon after she explains the mood is gone, that she doesn't know how to explain it but she doesn't want to have sex anymore, it was really late and she had to get up early. She then promised we can start over in the morning and asked me not to be mad.


For some women, you doing everything just for sex is a turn off. Some women are turned on by the fact that you remain playful in such a situation and stand up to yourself.. Ready to risk getting no sex! You made a mistake to comply to her not complying to you! That killed all the sexual tension you had built up that day and the days before.



> I told her I wasn't mad or disappointed. I don't think she bought it as she kept sighing. I would caress her after hearing her sigh. Morning came, and she got ready for work, gave me a kiss in bed, and left.


This is another turn off, because you are making a big deal of the whole thing. Stop acting like a victim to her.

Do yourself the favour and do not bring up the topic. You will regret it.
But if you continue what you had started days ago, the situation will repeat itself quiet similar, this time know that if she succeeds in distracting you from beieng assertive, you lose again.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I need more information on how you came to realize you had a problem with sex and what the deal is with your wife. So she likes to initiate and doesn't like it when you do? Seems like a lot of mixed messages with her buying you a sex swing but then also stopping things quickly after they start up. 

The one thing I am picking up on is that she feels as if you just want to have sex generally and she feels excluded in it? As if you could be with anyone and this would suit you but she happens to be the available one? 

I'm at a new point in my own marriage where I am having to learn to talk about sex more during the days and generally as the week goes by. My husband is also having to learn to do this. Many years went by with nobody talking about sex or making sexual comments. I guess I am at the opposite end of the spectrum as you are as it sounds like you are trying to talk about it less. Interesting.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Not seeing where the "doc" concluded that you have a sex addiction.

Your wife was sexually abused. Sometimes, some things you do, or say, a scent, a particular touch triggers a memory. This shuts down her arousal. Try not to take it personally as a rejection, though I completely understand how hard that might be for you. She might respond well to being held at that point, or she may want 3 feet of space. Unless she's in a panic or a rage, I tend to think encouraging positive touching is a good way to overcome the triggers and replace them with feelings of being comforted.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Maso,
Quote: "For some women, you doing everything just for sex is a turn off. Some women are turned on by the fact that you remain playful in such a situation and stand up to yourself.. Ready to risk getting no sex! You made a mistake to comply to her not complying to you! That killed all the sexual tension you had built up that day and the days before."

I've been very passive in the last few weeks. This is obviously a turn off. She's recently told me she quit school and is thinking about quitting her job too. I keep telling her that I don't want to pressure her, that I want her happy. I'm trying my best not stress her, but you are right, I need to stop playing the victim. PS: I have no plans on bringing last night up. I already know the outcome of doing that. I know my battle is showing her that I desire her and not sex. I'm just really good at messing up the moment.

MissScarlett
Quote: "As if you could be with anyone and this would suit you but she happens to be the available one? " 
You hit it on the head. See above.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> I know my battle is showing her that I desire her and not sex.


Dont get the battle wrong. The battle is not about you showing her that you want her and not sex, that is buying into something YOU as man know that is not true, though women will always guilt trip you with it!

You know yourself that when you want sex, it is because it is about her. You just feel like having sex with her. If it werent so, you would go for a hooker or masturbate.

*The battle here is still you not doing everything for sex!*

Meaning if she believes that you just want sex and not her, let that be her problem and withdraw your sexual attention WITHOUT showing hurt feelings. focus on sth else. She will learn that quilt tripping you has no effect than only keeping you away from her.

My wife used to complain about this and that whe it came to sex. It diminished over the time and some years ago she admitted that me not buying each of her word as gold is a great turn on.



> She's recently told me she quit school and is thinking about quitting her job too. I keep telling her that I don't want to pressure her, that I want her happy.


That is very noble, but beieng nice is not what gets you a good relationship, it is a part of it but not the only thing. Beieng assertive and positioning yourself clearly is the other part.

Please refer to this:


> Most men overdo trying to help her get better or fix herself. She is a grown up and has to be the first one showing interest in what is best for her. Otherwise, that is not your job!


The thing is that, you have to see if her having a job is important for your finances and household. If yes, a break from work might suit her, but not forever. She then might need another job if she is having issues with her current one. She has to support the family if that was your agreement before marriage.
Dont buy into liberating your partner from their duty.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> That is very noble, but beieng nice is not what gets you a good relationship, it is a part of it but not the only thing. Beieng assertive and positioning yourself clearly is the other part.


That is my battle, I have tried to be assertive, but sometime I come out being a big d*ck. I've had a lot of stress lately so I have become very passive. You are right that a balance is what I need, that is when she finds interest in me. Right now I think she just feels bad for me.



Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Meaning if she believes that you just want sex and not her, let that be her problem and withdraw your sexual attention WITHOUT showing hurt feelings. focus on sth else. She will learn that quilt tripping you has no effect than only keeping you away from her.


I really tried that last night. When she asked me if I was mad or disappointed, I said no, but my voice cracked. It's really, really hard for me to not show disappointment when I was so excited and then things went dead. I really don't want to show her that I am disappointed, but if I say anything or if I don't say anything she feels the same way. Even when I am truly not disappointed, she still feels I will be because of how disappointed I have felt in the past from being rejected. You are right, I have to be more assertive about my desire towards her, and not let it phase me when I get rejected. 

One problem I have is that we usually get to bed really early when she initiates sex, if it goes bad, then I am awake in the bed and If I get up or look at my phone she gets mad. I feel like I walk on egg shells sometimes.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> That is my battle, I have tried to be assertive, but sometime I come out being a big d*ck. I've had a lot of stress lately so I have become very passive. You are right that a balance is what I need, that is when she finds interest in me. Right now I think she just feels bad for me.


When I was young I always feard beieng a d*ck. Today I know that you have to face it and only appologize when you hurt somebody. Otherwise, you face it and carry the consequenses. Dont withdraw from your position because of every guilt that is thrown on you, unless you truly believe you made a mistake. Not she truly believes, YOU truly believe.
The key is to be able to be a good guy too if needed or if you want to.



> It's really, really hard for me to not show disappointment when I was so excited and then things went dead.


It is sth you learn by time. You looking at your wife from a neutral point wont help your ego here, it rather will fight against you. Accept that when it comes to mating and sex, women (men too) can play games that can drive you crazy if dont control yourself. 
Sometimes a woman can be just satisfied by the fact that you easilly gave in into sex now, which will then let her somewhat lose intrest in it then.



> One problem I have is that we usually get to bed really early when she initiates sex, if it goes bad, then I am awake in the bed and If I get up or look at my phone *she gets mad.*


You have "trained" her to get mad at you for that and she always will. it brings results: you comply..
The thing i believe is that she is usually abit disturded by the fact that you arent angry about getting no sex, this making her to get hold of you on a different area.

Time to jump out of her control.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She called me during work, wanting me to help her translate a word which I told her was sarcastically silly. She was at work and a friend of hers named Michael tells her that he occasionally felt that she was distant. Many times after he told her this, she would tell him "Do you want me to jump for joy every time you pass by the hall?" That's exactly what he did when he saw her yesterday, so she called him silly in another language and later translated for him. She told me through out the day they kept jumping up for joy every time their paths crossed. I found it hilarious. 

She came home venting about her day. I got the kids fed and to bed. We ate dinner. She told me she needed a little cuddling. She went to our bed, I picked her up and took her to the living room. I put on the TV and held her while she told me the story with Michael. I hugged and kissed her while we watched TV. She was tired and had a long day so before she fell asleep I got up and picked her up. She was not expecting it. I had her turn all the lights off with her feet as we walked throughout the house. Laughing as we stumbled, at one point I knocked her side against a door, it was not funny, but we continued laughing soon after. I threw her on the bed and started kissing her. At one point I told her I wanted her. She told me she was tired and she promised after she is rested in the morning we can continue, I kept kissing her. Then I told her I can't do this. I can't take it anymore. She asked me what was it. I told her I had a huge booger and I couldn't take it any longer. She laughed and said she was wondering when I would deal with it. I got up to clean the booger out of my nose, washed up and went to bed.


I got up in the morning, showered, and slowly woke her up. She got up and showered and then we had sex. 


** SORRY GRAPHIC, BUT NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN **
She came hard so I stopped. I laid on her for about five minutes and then told her if she was OK with another round, explaining that I did not finish. She hesitated, but then said yes if that is what I wanted. She was very active this time helping me to finish. I tried to penetrate her to finish inside her, but she was sore so penetration was impossible. Again I tried and she sighed when she saw me trying to go in again. I ended up finishing on top of her. Soon after I told her how I was hoping to finish inside her. She told me that what she gives is never enough. I laughed and told her no, that I like finishing on top of her too.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Hi SAJ

Good job. I am sure you are doing things right, but will like to underline what things you are handling wrong which will soon get you no sex again when you arent aware of them.



> ** SORRY GRAPHIC, BUT NO OTHER WAY TO EXPLAIN **
> She came hard so I stopped. I laid on her for about five minutes and then told her* if she was OK* with another round, explaining that I did not finish. She hesitated, but then said yes if that is what I wanted. She was very active this time helping me to finish. I tried to penetrate her to finish inside her, but she was sore so penetration was impossible. Again I tried and she sighed when she saw me trying to go in again. I ended up finishing on top of her. *Soon after I told her how I was hoping to finish inside her. She told me that what she gives is never enough. I laughed and told her no, that I like finishing on top of her too.*


You asking if she is ok with sexual things sometimes can interfer with the arousual of your wife, so make sure you are saying what you want and either it is ok or not. If it aint ok, no discussion and no hurt feelings, try again another day. Don't be asking for permission.

Another thing is that you should not strive to always take everything you say back and make it sound soft. This only makes it a habbit for your spouse to guilt trip you when you want sth or are dissapointed about sth. Resist to comment everything you arent getting.



> She called me during work, wanting me to help her translate a word which I told her was sarcastically silly. She was at work and a friend of hers named Michael tells her that he occasionally felt that she was distant. Many times after he told her this, she would tell him "Do you want me to jump for joy every time you pass by the hall?" That's exactly what he did when he saw her yesterday, so she called him silly in another language and later translated for him. She told me through out the day they kept jumping up for joy every time their paths crossed. I found it hilarious.


Just in case you found it hilarious because you were a bit jealous, I wont be surprised if she told you this story with exactly that intention.

If you want to find out whether it was intention, tell her a similar story about you and a female co-worker. Amke sure that you tell the story in her style, so make sure you name following things:

- the name of the co-worker (you will be surprised, that she will keep it in mind in case she felt jealous)
- make sure there is an interaction where the co-worker wants sth from you and you either dont want to comply or are rather clueless
- later state how you nevertheless end up interacting with the co-worker and actually feeling that she aint that bad as you always thought.

If you look at her story, that is exacgtly the structure she used. It is effective. One can learn from the ladies how to make jealous without leaving footsteps.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Hi SAJ
> 
> You asking if she is ok with sexual things sometimes can interfer with the arousual of your wife, so make sure you are saying what you want and either it is ok or not. If it aint ok, no discussion and no hurt feelings, try again another day. Don't be asking for permission.


Got it. Tell her what I want, not ask. 




Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Hi SAJ
> 
> Another thing is that you should not strive to always take everything you say back and make it sound soft. This only makes it a habbit for your spouse to guilt trip you when you want sth or are dissapointed about sth. Resist to comment everything you arent getting.


Absolutely right. Me telling that I wanted X, even with good intention belittles her previous efforts to please me





Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Hi SAJ
> Just in case you found it hilarious because you were a bit jealous, I wont be surprised if she told you this story with exactly that intention.
> 
> If you want to find out whether it was intention, tell her a similar story about you and a female co-worker. Amke sure that you tell the story in her style, so make sure you name following things:


You may be right about the jealousy. I used to tell my wife that I never really felt jealousy from her actions. I have reacted to guys disrespecting her, but I don't consider that jealousy.

Also Michael doesn't make me jealous, and I've told her this in the past. I've seen him at her Job and she has pointed him out. He is very attractive to the ladies at her job. I've never had a face to face conversation with him but I know he is a good friend/coworker of my wife. Recently since I've had uncertainty in our relationship, I have shown jealousy. A few weeks ago we had a fight because she left her ipad home and it kept going off. I turned it on and saw a notification that she had 20+ messages from some guy on facebook. When she got home, I simply told her I saw the notification, but that I did not read the messages as the ipad showed, nor did I have intentions of reading them. But I told her that it made me jealous since I didn't know who he was. She was mad at me for me opening it, and said I shouldn't feel jealousy, especially since I should know her better. She later explained he is a very distant cousin that she grew up with and last night opened his facebook page and showed me his son. She also explained that his wife left him and left her daughter with him. I thought that was sad. 

PS: If I were to do the same, my wife would definitely get jealous.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

meso said: "If you want to find out whether it was intention, tell her a similar story about you and a female co-worker. Amke sure that you tell the story in her style, so make sure you name following things:

- the name of the co-worker (you will be surprised, that she will keep it in mind in case she felt jealous)
- make sure there is an interaction where the co-worker wants sth from you and you either dont want to comply or are rather clueless
- later state how you nevertheless end up interacting with the co-worker and actually feeling that she aint that bad as you always thought."


Wow. You are a counselor and a psychologist, and you are recommending _making up a lie_ to make his wife jealous with, just to "test out" if she wanted to make him jealous or not.

Really? Are you serious?


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> meso said: "If you want to find out whether it was intention, tell her a similar story about you and a female co-worker. Amke sure that you tell the story in her style, so make sure you name following things:
> 
> - the name of the co-worker (you will be surprised, that she will keep it in mind in case she felt jealous)
> - make sure there is an interaction where the co-worker wants sth from you and you either dont want to comply or are rather clueless
> ...


Me beieng a counselor doesn't mean I am a holy priest.

But yes I am serious about advising those wo feel anciety to use the same method in order to know that it is nothing to worry about. Some people tend to see the snake when it is only a fish. This is not a method for everyone, but works for those who feel too ancious about such situations.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Telling someone to LIE rather than be UPFRONT and get the answers you need is shady...especially on a matter like this. I'm wondering how you can see it any other way and actually be a licensed professional. I would hope you would make sure that your clients know that some people would consider that completely shady and immature.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

My wife tells me about a friend of her that moved to a distant country and opened up a high class ***** house making lots of money. I jokingly asked her if she was considering that and she jokingly said she wouldn't mind having some prestige clients that would work on her terms. I told her I doubted that. 


This morning I sent her the message below 

"That ***** house idea is very dangerous, women get lost in sex trade that way. This morning I thought up and I want to play a sexy role playing game with you based on it. The game basically is basically between me and U. I am from that other country and u work like ur friend. It will start today and finish sometime this weekend. Do u want to play?"

She calls me during work telling me about some errands she wants me to do. Then texts me during the errands telling me she is going to a friends house after work. Now I am home, I'm not mad, just wondering if she saw the text and is ignoring it or if she missed it altogether. I'm not bringing it up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Spent the whole day with her and the kids. Been craving her as she is wearing a sexy tight shirt. We were looking at a new house together and during the open house I grabbed her and closed the door and picked her up and put her on the bathroom sink and started kissing her. She was taken back but soon started getting into it. I stopped a few seconds later and opened the door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> My wife tells me about a friend of her that moved to a distant country and opened up a high class ***** house making lots of money. I jokingly asked her if she was considering that and she jokingly said she wouldn't mind having some prestige clients that would work on her terms. I told her I doubted that.
> 
> 
> This morning I sent her the message below
> ...


The problem here is you getting acious about her beieng involved in sexual matters out of your relationship. In my point of view she is either just telling you facts without her beieng really serious about it or she is trying to test your reaction.

Either way you are acting like an idiot trying to compete with her mind by sextexting her. I can understand that she prefers to ignore that, especially when she might just have been testing you.

And you trying to arouse her out of the blue is a turn on, but the more you do it without her ever initiating herself, the weeker her responses to you will become on the long run.

Dint be surprised when u find yourself posting about less sex and rejection in about a month or two.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She can definitely sense my anxiety. You are right, i am acting like an idiot. It is when i get anxious about sex that she gets turned off. I'm acting like a baby. It's hard to not get aroused by her, she is very very sexy. Last night she flashed me by taking her towel off and dancing in front of me with nothing on but a g-string. Soon after I told her how much I enjoyed it.

I tried not bringing up sex and she loved it, but I was also being too passive. I need to find a balance. 

PS: Just had a conversation about an hour ago with her where I got a hint of her noticing my anxiety. She was talking about changing her diet. I jokingly told her she was getting old and she needs to take care of her body. She felt insulted and told me "saying this like that you expect to get sex out of me". I told her when I say things to her, My first thought is not how it will affect my ability to get sex, I care more about her health and well being. Now she is making old lady jokes all day long.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Last night she told me she was tired and started kissing me good night. She was kissing me for a good 10 seconds until I leaned forward and then she stopped. We said good night. I stayed up and watched tv for a few hours. I checked this website last night on my phone, cleared my cache and set my phone to charge in the living room. This morning I wake up and can't find my phone, I ask her for it and she said she moved to the bed room. I turn it on to see the charge and notice I left the browser cache options page open. Soon after she complains to me that our daughter is taking too long to get ready. I work up late because i couldn't check the time, so I told her that the time is late but she is not going slow, I woke her up late. She got frustrated for me not taking her side and walked out the room scratching her head. She is now mad at me. She is next to me now. Good morning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Work up to my wife kissing me for a good minute. I laid back and enjoyed it. To my surprise she gets up and starts getting ready for work. I didn't realize it but it was late. She gets ready and tells me how an old lady conversed with her, telling her that with my wife's skin tone, height, and body, she would be a wild child. I wrote the old lady a note saying "my wife is a good girl, but when she is wild she drives me crazy" sincerely Wild Child Husband. After writing it, I folded it and put it away. I know if I give it to my wife nothing good will come of it. I started thinking about my wife, how just a few months ago she was a wild child, the one I called Jane. I miss Jane, but I love my wife. My wife noticed and asked me if I was ok. I told her I was fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Wife just texted me "can we make love tonight." Usually I would make a sarcastic joke but want to say something nice... Any suggestions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Sarcasm is a bad plan. Try "Looking forward to it" and leave it at that.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

It definitely is. My message back was. "I'll be looking forward to being with you all day " thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

I had to work late last night, ended up picking the kids up about 15 minutes before Jane gets home so I hung around talking to the sitters husband for a few. Called my wife and she said she was on her way so I packed up the kids and met her home. She was on the phone talking to one of our kids teachers. Other kid brought a note as they got in trouble too. We spoke to both and Jane decided no electronics or friends for 2 weeks. We went to bed, I was dead tired, we talked and she told me she doesn't know what she would do without me and fell asleep. 

This morning I wake up and walk over and kiss her good morning. She asks me if something is wrong. I told her no, just groggy. 
She leaves and calls me to tell me something and hangs up, no goodbye. The last few phone calls have ended the same way, i called her back and told her I wasn't mad but asked her to please say good bye after hanging up. She said she did and she sounded mad. 

I was looking forward to sex but I really wasn't in the mood after the long day and dealing with the kids. I truly was not disappointed this time. I know she was tired and stressed and underfed. I had a decision to make yesterday, at work I could have stated I couldn't do the requested task, get home early, get the kids ready, make dinner, clean up, etc, to make sure she was relaxed. I've done that in the past but I had to take care of responsibilities fully knowing it will kill the mood that night. I texted her that I was working late so I couldn't do the normal routine, work provided me pizza and the sitter fed the kids. Before bed she asked me if we ate, i explained we did, but I didn't consider what she would eat. So I know that frustrated her. 

The tough part of all this for me is conveying to her that I am not mad. Every time she asks for sex and doesn't follow up, I would childishly react. I really don't want to play that game but I also have to make sure I communicate how I feel about things without her thinking I am retaliating for the lack of sex. An example is the night before I had to go to the store, when I got back it was way past the kids bed time(hence the kids had a horrible day at school the next day), I wanted to convey to her that she should put the kids to bed, but chose not to at that moment. I planned on telling her yesterday and then she texted me about sex. I thought about telling her last night but after all the stress i didnt. Now if i bring it up, she may think I'm retaliating. I'm rambling. Good morning everyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I think you are handling things well. It is noteable that, to the the higher drive partner, every interaction relates to sex. Everything in the relationship revolves around sex - because of the importance of it to some of us.

I do wonder how often the lower drive partner thinks of sex or how many situations revolve around sex in their eyes. 

Some people feel this way about food. If you ask them about their vacation they will tell you about the restaurants they ate at and what their dinner consisted of. Other people may think of sex they had. 

The work situation immediately made you consider your sex plans. Even though your wife initiated the plan I would like to know what was the center thought of her day.

I can see why people are able to make such better matches in subsequent marriages.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Even though your wife initiated the plan I would like to know what was the center thought of her day.
> 
> I can see why people are able to make such better matches in subsequent marriages.


Her center thought was trying to get thru the day at work. Something prompted her to reach out to me. I can only guess, but that is pointless. I have asked in the past "what prompted this". And she doesn't care to hear that. She just wants me to accept the attention. She doesn't want me analyzing what made her tick. It kills her mood.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Asked my wife out tonight considering she was off today she should be less stressed. She ended the conversation and hung up. I texted her "Babe, I wanted to say goodbye and heard the call drop. "

I think that was better than calling her back and telling her she didn't say goodbye again. 

The little things that she does and doesn't do used to really fuels the engine that wonders if she wants to be with me. I'm trying hard to not turn that engine on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Last night did not go as planned. We had a conversation last night and I hurt her feelings. She explained how something hurt her, and I didn't console her, instead I tried to bring reason. She shut me out soon after. Told me we should stay home because the kids were in the middle of something. She already ate, so I grabbed left overs I made the night before. 

After eating, I'm sitting on a high chair and pull her towards me. We are talking, she has her arms crossed. I kiss her neck for a bit and hug her tight. She kisses me on the lips, I try the same and she pulls back. 

I sat with her as we talked while she was on her Facebook. It was silent for 10 minutes so I put YouTube on the tv and commented on what I was watching. She grabs a beer and goes to the porch by herself. 10 minutes later I sit outside with her while she plays on her device. One of the kids asks her to help find something, she asks the child to check harder. The child comes back asking for assistance. My wife gets up and says that she doesn't understand why she has to do everything for us. My wife finds it instantly and is now frustrated. couple minutes go by and i don't know what to say. I get dressed to go for a run. I come to her to and tell her ill be back. She explains to me how she is frustrated because we were supposed to go out and now I'm leaving. 

I sit down and I tell her that I can sense she is frustrated at me. She says that she is no longer playing that game and if she is mad at me she is going to tell me. 

I told her I sensed frustration with her comment about having to find everything for us. She explained that us was in reference to the kids not me. I then apologize for being insensitive to her before but it was not my intension to hurt her. She said that she was frustrated because we were supposed to go out, it was her day to relax and now we aren't doing anything. I explained how the plans were changed by her and I am looking for her but she is not responding. I sat there for a minute and she said she didn't want to hold me so if I want to go I should go. I left. 

That night we continued to talk and the mood was calm. We had a bit of intimacy, again her pulling away when I get aggressive. So I let her lead. We fell asleep in the spoon position, with my left arm over her chest and my right arm under her neck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

No, dude, when a woman says if you want to do something go ahead and do it - she is totally lying.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> PS: Just had a conversation about an hour ago with her where I got a hint of her noticing my anxiety. She was talking about changing her diet. I jokingly told her she was getting old and she needs to take care of her body. She felt insulted and told me "saying this like that you expect to get sex out of me". I told her when I say things to her, My first thought is not how it will affect my ability to get sex, I care more about her health and well being. Now she is making old lady jokes all day long.


Oh my God! you are buying each word she sells you for gold. Stop trying to be in her head. Dont you have other stuff to do?

The same applies to almost all othe following posts. You need to be free from focussing on her thoughts and actions or at least behave that way.



> The tough part of all this for me is conveying to her that I am not mad. Every time she asks for sex and doesn't follow up, I would childishly react. I really don't want to play that game but I also have to make sure I communicate how I feel about things without her thinking I am retaliating for the lack of sex.


Very good. I adore how you managed to avoid sex. Just dont forget to balance it, not that she feels punished for initiating or having faith in you.



> An example is the night before I had to go to the store, when I got back it was way past the kids bed time(hence the kids had a horrible day at school the next day), I wanted to convey to her that she should put the kids to bed, but chose not to at that moment. I planned on telling her yesterday and then she texted me about sex. I thought about telling her last night but after all the stress i didnt. Now if i bring it up, she may think I'm retaliating. I'm rambling. Good morning everyone.


Your wife is trying to remain in the control of sex. I cant tell how far this is conciously done, but it happens. The best way for you to deal with it is not to do to much for sex.
So dont be too focused on trying to find the right words. All words can be right and wrong when it comes to sex. You have to focus on triggering her sexualy to an extend that she is sure that she needs it at almost all costs.
So you are doing the right things. 
I advice you not to initiate or communicate sex at times that seem right for it. For example, when getting ready for bed or when the kids are out or whatever. Communicating sex at these times is lethal for sexual tension between you. So times/situations that are least leading to sex are the best to initiate, because no one is rejected BUT tension is built!
This will communicate non-needyness on her side on the long run, which take away all ground to use it against you. She cant reject you when sex is either way not going to happen.



> Her center thought was trying to get thru the day at work. Something prompted her to reach out to me. I can only guess, but that is pointless. I have asked in the past "what prompted this". And she doesn't care to hear that. She just wants me to accept the attention. She doesn't want me analyzing what made her tick. It kills her mood.


Do her the favor and dont ask her anymore! Wanting to understand your wife is a turn off.
So either you are asking other women, or asing other men, or writing a diary in order to compare behaviour. But stop asking her. The thing is, she wont even really know, because it is a feeling that just comes up. Reasons are many, answers are few. Get over it.

*In my point of view. Sex is very close connected to how much of it one believes to get or give. The more you believe to be giving it, the less you want it. The more you believe it is balanced or you are the one who need to be given, the more you want it.*

That is the basics on it. All othe factors count too more or less, but they usually only start counting when the above stated is in the right place.



> Asked my wife out tonight considering she was off today she should be less stressed. She ended the conversation and hung up. I texted her "Babe, I wanted to say goodbye and heard the call drop. "
> 
> I think that was better than calling her back and telling her she didn't say goodbye again.
> 
> The little things that she does and doesn't do used to really fuels the engine that wonders if she wants to be with me. I'm trying hard to not turn that engine on.


Let me tell you the truth. She want to be with you. The only question is how much you are ready to pay for it. She wont stop beieng a problem as long as you are trying to do everything in the right way (especially when it comes to sexual stuff!).

So, better pay less and both of you will be happy on the long run. On the short term, she will guilt trip you so far that you will be ready to set yourself on fire just for her to be content with you.

This is the point a man has to believe that a woman loves him the way he is and not the way the says (or he thinks she would say) he should be.

Just look at the following posts, how you are trying harder with NO positive results:

Black your actions, red her response.. Green what you did right!



> *Last night did not go as planned. We had a conversation last night and I hurt her feelings. She explained how something hurt her, and I didn't console her, instead I tried to bring reason. She shut me out soon after. Told me we should stay home because the kids were in the middle of something. She already ate, so I grabbed left overs I made the night before.*
> 
> After eating, I'm sitting on a high chair a*nd pull her towards me. We are talking*, she has her arms crossed. I kiss her neck for a bit and hug her tight. She kisses me on the lips, *I try the same *and she pulls back.
> 
> ...


Summary.

A lot of talk and action from your side to do everything right. With the result of her actualy guilt tripping you and finally no sex.

You are taking her too serious. You better ignore some things and find a way to let her talk by herself. You trying to ask whats is wrong and what could be right is just a way to beg for her to manipulate your every move!

She has already gotten the habit to withdraw sexually once you bite the bait. You want her to continue, then continue figuring her out. You want it to stop and to be fairly in control of the sexuall stuff, then focus on the things you have been doing right in the past weeks and stop trying to see mistakes that arent actually mistakes but just her illusion of you doing things wrong because you arent enough under her control.

Once she has the control and full perfection of you. That is when real trouble starts.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She told me last night that her request to make love is still pending. I had just started a movie for the kids and we watched it together. I asked her if she wants to fulfill the request or if she wants me to take the initiative. She said we should see how the night goes. As we watch the movie she falls asleep. In the middle of the movie she shifts and I kiss her and ask her if she wants to go to sleep, she says yes, I said ok, we can take care of her plans in the morning. 

Morning came and the thought has not crossed her mind. As for me it is all I have thought about. I'm too anxious. I don't have any method of releasing his anxiety. Not sure what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Maso, just saw your post. I'll read it soon
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm actually quite curious how an uneducated man like myself can spell better than a shrink :scratchhead:


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I'm actually quite curious how an uneducated man like myself can spell better than a shrink :scratchhead:


It is simple. you love to focus on the surface of things rather than what is inside. Maybe it cause u aint so educated ;-)


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> It is simple. you love to focus on the surface of things rather than what is inside. Maybe it cause u aint so educated ;-)


Ha! Mate you could have said you're from Germany 

Auf weidersen!


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Ha! Mate you could have said you're from Germany
> 
> Auf weidersen!


Guten morgen! :smthumbup:

I know, I just felt like some people need to be kicked for trolling. It shows how narrow minded people look at things, just because the outside doesnt fit into their usual opinion.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> You are taking her too serious. You better ignore some things and find a way to let her talk by herself. You trying to ask whats is wrong and what could be right is just a way to beg for her to manipulate your every move!
> 
> She has already gotten the habit to withdraw sexually once you bite the bait. You want her to continue, then continue figuring her out. You want it to stop and to be fairly in control of the sexuall stuff, then focus on the things you have been doing right in the past weeks and stop trying to see mistakes that arent actually mistakes but just her illusion of you doing things wrong because you arent enough under her control.
> 
> Once she has the control and full perfection of you. That is when real trouble starts.



Thanks for the long reply. I'm slowly getting this. I read your response yesterday, but did not have time to reply. I was with my wife the whole day. You are right about the bait. I started noticing it once you highlighted them and spoke of it. I'm not taking her remarks seriously anymore. At least I am trying. Only time will tell how well i grasp what you say. I have to reread everything for the last few weeks to see how much I am grasping.


Yesterday was a good day for us. But she kept trying to bait me. 

Case 1. We were watching a movie on Saturday where a guy was making fun of his wife. He was saying she didn't know English and she would just node to what ever he said. In humor I told my wife that I used to do the same when her English was not as good. She said to me, "You are going to tell me something like that, and I just freshened up, brushed my teeth, getting ready for tonight." I laughed it off saying, "But you didn't know any better, come here" and started kissing her. Pushing me back so I don't make contact, but we were laughing at the end. 

Case 2. She had said fishing lines, and in my head I thought she said fish net stockings. When I explained what I thought they were, she said "I see where your mind is." I laughed and said, "I guess so, I seriously got them confused."

Case 3. I went to a costume party last year without her and I explained how all the women had sexy costumes. I told her a long time ago I wanted her to go with me this year so I can see her in something sexy and she agreed. While at a store yesterday, I barely heard her ask what I was going to wear for this years party and we were quickly interrupted soon after she asked. When the interruption left, I had it in my mind, but chose not to bring it up.

I ended spending a good amount of time Sunday keeping busy not focusing so much on her sex signals. At one point she asked me about a Bachelor party I am going out of town for, telling me she wanted me to only go for one night, at one point saying I don't need a hotel room. I reminded her we have to adjust the same way we adjusted when she went with the Bride. She is on her facebook, so I am on my phone playing a new game I got that I spent a lot of time on. I had just finished a game and go to pick it up to start again. She grabs my phone and asks me to put it down that I've played a lot today. I agreed considering it was true and we sit together while she is on her facebook. A few minute later of me being idle, i get up and say I'm going to bed. I go take a shower, when I get to our bedroom, she is fast a sleep. No good night or anything. So I get on my side of the bed and go to sleep. I didn't kiss her goodnight. I usually give her a deep good night kiss. But thinking that if I do kiss her, she is going to take it as a passive aggressive move for being disappointed tonight as well. It's sad, but that is what I did.

This morning, I go to get up to look at the clock on my phone and she grabs me so I hug her and I hold her for a while. I once again go to look at the clock and see I have to get up, but she pulls at me. I tell her I have to get the kids ready and kiss her. I get the kids ready, kiss her bye, and take them to school.

She calls me about 30 minutes later asking me if I said good bye to her. I laughed and explained exactly where both she and I were standing with details as to when and how I kissed her goodbye. In good humor, I told her next time I will try to make it a bit more memorable. She said she was disappointed and said she loved me, I said I loved her too and gave her my good bye. She said good bye this time.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I wonder how she might react if you say you know you normally spend time on your phone at this time of day - but you would rather do something with her instead. I wonder if she gets irritated at a point with your phone and her sexual desire starts to evaporate.

In this day and age I know how hard it is to ignore technology. We've all gotten quite accustomed to our phones and devices. On the same note - it is such a nice gesture when someone silences their phone to focus on you or lets you know you are appreciated more than the technology. I recently received a hand-written letter in the mail. I can't tell you the last time I received one and I was so touched this person took the time to do it. 

In any case, I can see where you are coming from - if you feel Jane is not paying attention to you then you might as well entertain yourself. However, thinking it may be a nice gesture to her if you acknowledge you could be on your phone but choose time with her instead. Even if she say no and starts doing something else.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> Yesterday was a good day for us. But she kept trying to bait me.


It is good you are aware of this. The important thing for you to know about female baits is that they seem to work against you but in reality they are opportunites for increasing sexual tension between you. So do yourself the favour and rarely guilt trip her when she baits you with sexual stuff.



> Case 1. We were watching a movie on Saturday where a guy was making fun of his wife. He was saying she didn't know English and she would just node to what ever he said. In humor I told my wife that I used to do the same when her English was not as good. She said to me, "You are going to tell me something like that, and I just freshened up, brushed my teeth, getting ready for tonight." I laughed it off saying, "But you didn't know any better, come here" and started kissing her. Pushing me back so I don't make contact, but we were laughing at the end.
> 
> Case 2. She had said fishing lines, and in my head I thought she said fish net stockings. When I explained what I thought they were, she said "I see where your mind is." I laughed and said, "I guess so, I seriously got them confused."
> 
> Case 3. I went to a costume party last year without her and I explained how all the women had sexy costumes. I told her a long time ago I wanted her to go with me this year so I can see her in something sexy and she agreed. While at a store yesterday, I barely heard her ask what I was going to wear for this years party and we were quickly interrupted soon after she asked. When the interruption left, I had it in my mind, but chose not to bring it up.


You did awesome here. You were most of the time calm because you werent in her head. the only thing you need to know in such cases is that as long a woman is playing games, she is still sexualy attracted to you.



> I didn't kiss her goodnight. I usually give her a deep good night kiss. But thinking that if I do kiss her, she is going to take it as a passive aggressive move for being disappointed tonight as well. It's sad, but that is what I did.


Actually not kissing her was passive aggressive. You have to ask yourself if you are doing sth as a reaction to her actions, if so, you are beieng passive agressive. And passive agressive is usually sth rather negative. So giving a good night kiss in this case aint p.a.

About her pulling you of your phone but she remaining on FB. This are value tests that occur in relationships. As MissScarlett mentioned, if she orders you off your phone, she better is having sth better for you ready (e.g. quality time together). Otherwise it is up to you to decide if you are going to obey or not. You did well here because it was also your own concent that you had played enough.

So keep you eyes open when she is ordering you around. Most times you will need to be assertive (no matter what crap you are currently doing), unless you too are giving her small orders which she is fullfilling.



> This morning, I go to get up to look at the clock on my phone and she grabs me so I hug her and I hold her for a while. I once again go to look at the clock and see I have to get up, but she pulls at me. I tell her I have to get the kids ready and kiss her. I get the kids ready, kiss her bye, and take them to school.
> 
> She calls me about 30 minutes later asking me if I said good bye to her. I laughed and explained exactly where both she and I were standing with details as to when and how I kissed her goodbye. In good humor, I told her next time I will try to make it a bit more memorable. She said she was disappointed and said she loved me, I said I loved her too and gave her my good bye. She said good bye this time.


Very good. Well played! this is sth David Deida talks about in his book. when you focus on acting manly and dominant in calm way and ignore guilt trips your wife is handing you because of your behaviour, your wife tends more to her female side. Here we see that her interest in your relationship increases.
It is weird, but often this really aplies.

Keep it up.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Actually not kissing her was passive aggressive. You have to ask yourself if you are doing sth as a reaction to her actions, if so, you are beieng passive agressive. And passive agressive is usually sth rather negative. So giving a good night kiss in this case aint p.a.


 The night before, I had kissed her good night even though I though she was asleep. She kissed me back very passionately. Soon after the kiss, I told her I want a kiss good night from her every night. I didn't want her to feel like I was pressuring her into kissing me good night and guilt tripping her. But you are right, I was being passive aggressive by not kissing her. "I felt like she didn't kiss me like I asked so I'm not going to kiss her." I should have just kissed her and definitely not bring up the fact that I told her I wanted a good night kiss. 

I feel she wants the sex, its like she just wants it on her terms. I'm sure if i would have kissed her last night, she may have attempted to contemplate the idea of negotiating in her mind if she wanted to have sex or not  (<-- That was long) That late at night I wanted to avoid being put in a situation where she can test me again. I needed my sleep. Every night she rejects my attempts or simply tells me she looses the mood, I do not sleep.

That is why I was passive aggressive. Sex for us is usually really late at night or in the morning. Tiredness destroys the possibility at night, and responsibilities and the kids kill it in the morning. I think it should be something recreational that we would want to do for each other. I'm at a point where I don't want a quick one. I want to enjoy it with her like I used to when I called her Jane.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> Soon after the kiss, I told her I want a kiss good night from her every night.


You cannot buy affection. Anything to do with affection cant be negotiated in a relationship. On the short term this works, but on the long run, you are not only lowering your personal value in the relationship, but you are also taking away all the thrill for the other to want to do it by own will.



> I feel she wants the sex, its like she just wants it on her terms. I'm sure if i would have kissed her last night, she may have attempted to contemplate the idea of negotiating in her mind if she wanted to have sex or not


This would have been your chance to turn her down or to put up own terms as well. You fearing to approach her in situations where she might seduce you into sex is not going to help get a balance in who supplies the sex. U have to learn to decide to accept the sex, but on your own terms or to say no to it with an excuse.
One of my terms at the beginning when I started getting the sexual power back, was to decide which position we would make or where we would have the sex. After the balance was back I loosen the rope a bit and allowed more flexibility. But this took months.



> That late at night I wanted to avoid being put in a situation where she can test me again.


As I said, it is natural for a woman to put you into situations which will turn out to be a test or scratch your ego a bit. GET OVER IT!
As a man, you should be proud that your lady plays games once a while because that shows she is highly interested in getting you under control, which is a sign of attraction!
The only thing you can do is pass this tests by trying to not be emotional or too serious about them.

The only time a test should be harshly adressed, is when she is disrespecting you. Which she isnt here.

Disrespect in my point of view is only when she insults you or doesnt keep her end of an agreement. All the rest of the stuff that might seem disrespectful, shouldnt be counted as such.
I also advice couples not to make to many agreements at a time because many agreements create reasons for disrespecting or anoying the other. Yes, even threatening.. So less at a time is better.



> I needed my sleep. Every night she rejects my attempts or simply tells me she looses the mood, I do not sleep.


Oh I remember this one very well. I used to not sleep till around 2 am sometimes just because of the rejection.
Once you reject her too once a while, you ll stop taking it personal and that will make you never feel like fighting for sex anymore. This will allow you to sleep whenever she rejects you because u ll know that it is also her loss.

Here is a trick. The next time she rejects you. Remain friendly, say good night with a nice kiss and then after a few minutes pretend to sleep deep already. Surprisingly if she was testing you, you ll notice that she will suddenly have difficulties to sleep herself (*its because you sleeping turns the knife around and makes it her loss!*). In case this happens, you ll feel a relief and from then on u ll rarely lose sleep because of no-sex.



> Tiredness destroys the possibility at night, and responsibilities and the kids kill it in the morning. I think it should be something recreational that we would want to do for each other. I'm at a point where I don't want a quick one. I want to enjoy it with her like I used to when I called her Jane.


Believe me. Once your wife knows that she isnt alone in control of the sex, she ll be ready for sex anytime.
I was surprised. My wife used to hate sex in the morning. She even didnt give an excuse. She behaved as if it was her right to reject me when I woke up horny.
When I was back in control of the supply, she started initiating in the morning when I had rejected her in the night because I was too tired.
Sometimes she even had to work early in the morning, but would wait for me when I came home late from friends, just in order for us to hook up.

It is a matter of how worthy/valuable your sex is.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I wonder how she might react if you say you know you normally spend time on your phone at this time of day - but you would rather do something with her instead. I wonder if she gets irritated at a point with your phone and her sexual desire starts to evaporate.


Miss Scarlett,
Her vagina would dry up like a seed in the dessert. My wife would know I was being passive aggressive. She would assume the comment was related to my dislike of her talking on the phone and being on her device as well. She spends most of her day doing either on. We live far from her family so I understand. I don't see it as a problem if it doesn't interfere with something we planned on doing.

The reason I am in this situation is partially because of technology. There was a time when she would spend time on the phone, so I would spend the whole day on my laptop. Though it was mostly work related, she didn't appreciate me ignoring. but it was a vicious cycle, she ignored me and I ignored her. 




MissScarlett said:


> In this day and age I know how hard it is to ignore technology. We've all gotten quite accustomed to our phones and devices. On the same note - it is such a nice gesture when someone silences their phone to focus on you or lets you know you are appreciated more than the technology. I recently received a hand-written letter in the mail. I can't tell you the last time I received one and I was so touched this person took the time to do it.



I've written her many love notes. I also carry one of hers in my wallet. I haven't given her a hand-written letter in a while. Last one I did, I placed notes around the house, each note leading to the other. The last note had her laying in bed waiting.... 




MissScarlett said:


> In any case, I can see where you are coming from - if you feel Jane is not paying attention to you then you might as well entertain yourself. However, thinking it may be a nice gesture to her if you acknowledge you could be on your phone but choose time with her instead. Even if she say no and starts doing something else.


I'll have to think about this one. Thanks.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

We stayed up late watching a movie last night. Surprisingly during the time we were together she seldom used her phone. Something that is very rare. When I would see she would be disinterested in the movie and reach for her phone, I would wait a few minutes, if she was still on her phone, I would reach for my game and start playing as well. She would put the phone down, so I would finish my game and talk about the movie or reach over to make contact. I'm beginning to feel that she is getting annoyed when I am on my phone. This sounds bad, but at times I've thought that she prefers me to be ideally waiting for her. I'm trying not to think like that though.

When the movie finished I told her I wanted to take her to bed. She said she can't she is now bleeding from her menstrual cycle. I laughed and said "No, I want to take her to the bed so we can sleep. It's late."

She could not believe what I said. She said "I can't believe my insatiable ****ing machine wants to go to sleep, are you really turning me down?" In a firm but calm voice, I told her "yes, it's late, come on, lets go."

Her breast have been swollen the whole week and I've commented on how great they looked without any feedback. Many times last week she has caught me staring and I've told her how beautiful she looks and how it excites me to see her look so beautiful. Last night we went to sleep spooning again. I held her breast and felt how warm and swollen they were. I told her how great they feel in my hand, how it feels like they are calling for me. She said they were calling for me for the last week. She told me how disappointed she was with me because she really wanted to have sex and this whole week she has been giving me signs. She recounted everything I've stated in this post, from the time she texted me during work, to the reminder she gave me about the text, to an instances I don't even recall. She told me how last night she even had sex dreams and felt herself physically moving to the dream. In a loving voice, I told her I didn't realize but it's OK, she will be fine in about a week, I'll be sure to take care of her. 

I knew where she was in her menstrual cycle, I was expecting it. I feel she probably started spotting about two days ago. Cleanliness is very important for her. Most likely next Friday she feels comfortable again in her body to consider sexual activity.

This morning gave her a more memorable good morning kiss before leaving, she didn't want to let go of me, told me she loved me. I reciprocated.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> We stayed up late watching a movie last night. Surprisingly during the time we were together she seldom used her phone. Something that is very rare. When I would see she would be disinterested in the movie and reach for her phone, I would wait a few minutes, if she was still on her phone, I would reach for my game and start playing as well. She would put the phone down, so I would finish my game and talk about the movie or reach over to make contact. I'm beginning to feel that she is getting annoyed when I am on my phone. This sounds bad, but at times I've thought that she prefers me to be ideally waiting for her. I'm trying not to think like that though.
> 
> When the movie finished I told her I wanted to take her to bed. She said she can't she is now bleeding from her menstrual cycle. I laughed and said "No, I want to take her to the bed so we can sleep. It's late."
> 
> ...


You have now successfully pushed her out of the comfort zone.


Now what you need to focus on is not making sex more difficult for her but *making sure that you are rarely initiating at times and situations which she has been turning you down in the past.*

So, if you are horny, dont initiate while in bed or when the kids are out of the house for the next few weeks *(remember, her turning you down is a reflex at the moment and it needs to subside slowly by itself.. give her room for that..*). 
So make sure you initiate at a point where sex is rather impossible or at a point where you will have an excuse to stop the seduction. Just make sure that you are conveying the attitude that what you are doing is not leading to sex but rather just happened spontaniously because you felt like doing it right now (e.g. smacking her butt, kissing her neck, grabbing her butt for like 5-10 sec without letting go, commenting on her beieng sexy etc etc..). The thing is, 

*MAKE SURE U ARENT AWAITING HER APPROVAL!* 

It does not matter whetther she likes what you are doing or not because your aim isnt her concious mind but her subconcious. For the subconcious, a sexual move from a non-needy valuable person triggers a sexual response sooner or later.

So if you are grabbing her butt or holding her hand, *make sure your attention IS NOT only focused on her*, because if you do so, you will need to react too soon incase she guilt trips you on it or doesnt want it. But if you are for example on your phone at the same time, or cooking or holding one of the kids, or talking to s.o. or just passing by to take a beer out of the fridge while smacking her ass etc.. SHE WILL FIRST NEED TO GET YOUR ATTENTION which means that the fact she wants to make you stop what you are doing to her will be her second priority.
Also this way it is more non-needy and dominant at the same time.

No matter what her reaction is, she would have been sexualy triggered already. So dont seek for any signs that state she is horny or turned on. Often she will supress them very efficiently (_e.g. guilt trip you on sth else or change the topic or make you jealous etc etc.. The list is long, so its not worth to watch out for signs. *You need to assume the attraction by faith. Be confident about this. *_)

So your job then is staying calm and not trying to get into an arguement or any justifications.

*Summary:*

1. Take away all possible situations she can turn you down with, no matter how horny she seem to be. If she wants you, she will initiate. Be patient. Just dont overdo beieng distant.

2. When you want to heat her up, whatever sexual stuff you are doing needs to sound like a 2nd or even 3rd priority compared to whatever else you are currently busy with.


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## Onzo (Sep 23, 2013)

Thanks to MissScarlet and Maso, I am learning a lot by following this thread.

Thanks too to the OP for keeping us tuned.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Onzo, 
you are welcome. I thank Maso as well. I'm sleeping better at night and less anxious about sex. 

Maso, 
I just read your notes, and I can see how this is going to take time. She controls sex in the relationship and the more I show her frustration the more sex I may get but the less she will value me as a partner. I don't mind going with out sex for weeks if the end result is my wife finding more desire in me. That is my goal. Not so much the sex but to see that she desires me and for her to express it more often. You are right, she is playing games so she wants me, I had asked her before and she said she does desire me but she doesn't know why the mood is lost at times. I know why, because I guilt trip her into sex. I'm tired of that. 

Regarding not having a fight, too late. Last night I came home, dinner was ready rather quickly. We sat down as a family, we spoke a bit. We worked on doing the homework with the kids. After a while of conveying a message to one of them, I grabbed my phone and started plAying a game, I was still assisting asking him questions to provoke thoughts, but apparently not to the level that she wanted. I was playing for 5 minutes when she got mad about the game, explained that she doesn't like the level of details in the homework and erased everything in the homework and said that she will take care of it. I told her I was working win him and I don't how my playing was affecting his work. I stood there in awe, not having anything to do, I prepared some milk for the kids and have them all a kiss good night. I told my wife I am going to be that I had a headache. She quickly told me to take medication which I always tell her I never do. This time I did take some already and I explained that I already did and walked away. 

I know i was not giving my full attention by me to pickup the phone, but it is not something she hasn't done in be past.

After reading your post this morning in bed, my wife was going to get up, she was clearly mad, sighing as I read your messages. She is really not liking me being on my phone. I grabbed her and gave her a kiss, she was thrown back like if I was a stranger, I stop the kiss, looking into her eyes seeing that if I was a stranger she was conveying a message of "why are you kissing me". I laughed a bit, and went in for another softer kiss this time for a few seconds. Then I thanked her for taking care of he kids last night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Onzo (Sep 23, 2013)

> She controls sex in the relationship and the more I show her frustration the more sex I may get but the less she will value me as a partner. I don't mind going with out sex for weeks if the end result is my wife finding more desire in me. That is my goal. Not so much the sex but to see that she desires me and for her to express it more often.


The thing is that one day that frsutration will stop working too. So dont believe that it is a sort of gold card you have.

As for the value, you are on the right track. My wife has started to be more affectionate in the past days. I have been reading David Deida 's book "The Way of the Superior Man". Maso had recommended it.

Since then I havent been having any headache to pass any tests or to handle any problems. I havent finished it, but what I ve read till now was valuable information to how you have to frame your own attidtude.

As Deida says, a woman will strive to get you under her control. So no matter what you are currently doing now, whether it is your games or whatever, she ll want to see how far she needs to go to get you off them. Once you give in, she will let you drop like a hot potatoe.. In the moment your phone is actually her biggest rival because I think she knows that it distracts you from paying too much attention to her sexual baits etc.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Onzo said:


> The thing is that one day that frsutration will stop working too. So dont believe that it is a sort of gold card you have.


That was what I was trying to convey, and what Maso has been instilling in me. I don't want to show my frustration. Now, I am at a point where I see no reason to get frustrated. Only time will tell though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Onzo said:


> The thing is that one day that frsutration will stop working too. So dont believe that it is a sort of gold card you have.
> 
> As for the value, you are on the right track. My wife has started to be more affectionate in the past days. I have been reading David Deida 's book "The Way of the Superior Man". Maso had recommended it.
> 
> ...


Onzo, great analize ! I have nothing to add to it.

@ SongsAJ

you need to stop seeing the tests and complains of your wife as a threat. As I said, they are the opposite !

The part you tried to kiss her and she like jumped away, that was a value test and u passed with high marks by avoiding to be passive agressive and doing rather the opposite (thanking for what she had done with the kids and kissing her).

This is where the saying "fight hate with love" shows its benefits. * BUT : * You have to know that if you hadent worked so hard on yourself, your wife wont be doing this stuff and none of your moves on her would have any impact. She would be to busy doing and paying attention to other things and wouldnt care about whatever you are doing.

Here is sth for u to try: Next time she gets her moods, pull her dress or trowser down to her thighs, grab her and give her a good kiss. Dont make it too easy for her to slip off your hands unless she uses real force. If she finally gives in to it, you have the proof that the sexual tension is the one causing her moods. Me, I know it is, the question is if u know? If not, then it is time to do as stated above.
You have one single run here, so if u fail doing it dont try again. If you succeed, dont try again either. It is just about building your ego a bit.

Summary:

Keep it up.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> You have now successfully pushed her out of the comfort zone.
> 
> Now what you need to focus on is not making sex more difficult for her but *making sure that you are rarely initiating at times and situations which she has been turning you down in the past.*
> 
> ...


I won't initiate. She was extremely agitated this morning after the kiss. She tried everything for me to stop her madness, but I just ignored her. At one point she said to me, "You know I hate the way you batter those eggs" I said "I know, I'm making breakfast so I can't stop" Then she said "You can do it in a way that you don't make so much noise" I just kept making breakfast. Soon after she started screaming at my son, about his room being a mess, threating to hit him, saying "I haven't hit you in a long time, I need you to x,y,z" Then she started saying how she has to do everything for us. I again ignored her this time. I walked over to my son and helped him get ready for school, reminded my son he has things to do before going to school, and asked him how he thinks we can do things better so he is ready. We spoke of making a to do list again like we did last year. He said he will try. After I took him to school, I came back home to pick something up. I grabbed her, put her on the kitchen counter and started kissing and caressing her. She reacted fairly well. She even stated, I don't know why I am so mad at everyone. She said she needs to go to work, this being a stay at home mom is too much for her. I continued kissing her, then abruptly stopped with a kiss goodbye, grabbed my keys and left.





Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> *Summary:*
> 
> 1. Take away all possible situations she can turn you down with, no matter how horny she seem to be. If she wants you, she will initiate. Be patient. Just dont overdo beieng distant.
> 
> 2. When you want to heat her up, whatever sexual stuff you are doing needs to sound like a 2nd or even 3rd priority compared to whatever else you are currently busy with.


[/QUOTE]

1. Will do. It is tough not to be distant. Last time I tried this approach she said I was being mean to her. I felt i was kind of mean when I said I wasn't going to stop making breakfast. This is another place I have to find balance.

2. I will keep that in the back of my mind.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

Double


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> I won't initiate. She was extremely agitated this morning after the kiss. She tried everything for me to stop her madness, but I just ignored her. At one point she said to me, "You know I hate the way you batter those eggs" I said "I know, I'm making breakfast so I can't stop" Then she said "You can do it in a way that you don't make so much noise" I just kept making breakfast. Soon after she started screaming at my son, about his room being a mess, threating to hit him, saying "I haven't hit you in a long time, I need you to x,y,z" Then she started saying how she has to do everything for us. I again ignored her this time. I walked over to my son and helped him get ready for school, reminded my son he has things to do before going to school, and asked him how he thinks we can do things better so he is ready. We spoke of making a to do list again like we did last year. He said he will try. After I took him to school, I came back home to pick something up. I grabbed her, put her on the kitchen counter and started kissing and caressing her. She reacted fairly well. She even stated, I don't know why I am so mad at everyone. She said she needs to go to work, this being a stay at home mom is too much for her. I continued kissing her, then abruptly stopped with a kiss goodbye, grabbed my keys and left.


I hope you have enough proof now that she is weird because of all the sexual tension in her. The fact that she is responding well will need to be adressed on a subconcious level (not concious!), meaning that you have tortured her enough for now and you should agree to the sex if she initiates.

Why is this important? You have to remember that whatever you do, overdoing is a dangerous thing. So letting her have sex is sth which is ok now because you have proven to be non-needy. If you dont agree to the sex you might now just be creating problems that dont need to occur during your journey.
You are now finally holding a part of the power on sex! With great power come great responsibility, so use it wisely to your and her benefit. Yours first, then hers. It is her turn now.
So if you want to keep that power, you have to know that she ll need to benefit too, otherwise she ll just get used to you rejecting her while she brings up more drama. Everything can become a habit. So which habit do you want:

The I-turn-her-down-she-then-makes-drama habit

or

The we have more sex habit

Meaning, when the price is good dont get stuck in your shop. There are days you need to open and sell your product so people keep coming back wanting more.

What is important is that after the sex, you continue your mission. If you lose focus and fall back into old habits, you will be back at square A in no time.



> 1. Will do. It is tough not to be distant. Last time I tried this approach she said I was being mean to her. I felt i was kind of mean when I said I wasn't going to stop making breakfast. This is another place I have to find balance.


Beieng mean is not wrong. We have grown up taught otherwise, but actually beieng not mean is a reason many spouses dont get sex.
A stable relationship needs both a bit of good and a bit of bad in order for both parties to feel a sort of benefit.

What is important is to not overdo certain things.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She is getting anxious.


Jane 1:35pm
Babe I don't want you to go for three days to the bachelor party

Me 1:36pm
why not?

Jane 1:37pm
.... I'm going to miss you, and I'm afraid.

Me 1:37pm
I'll miss you too. But why would you be afraid?

Jane 1:41pm
Of the guys being stupid and getting in trouble. Like starting a fight or something 

Me 1:42pm
I don't plan on getting drunk and everyone should be fine. I got a room with X. I just got the hotel details.

Jane 1:43pm
From when to when?

Me 1:43pm
Friday evening to Sunday Morning

Jane 1:43pm
Noooo 
Why you need to be there 2 nites

Me 1:44pm
I Don't Know, that's what they said it will be so I said I was going
I'll be back early on Sunday

Jane 1:47pm
Not good right now

Me: 1:53pm (after reading the last response from Maso)
My love, I'm going into a meeting, but when I get home I'm going to take good care of you. I can't wait

Jane 1:53pm
I'm really mad now


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She is highly frustrated. She came up to me an hour ago and told me she was mad at me. I tried laughing it off and reach over to kiss her while continuing to do what I was doing, but she pulled away, so I focused on what I was doing. She got closer and said to me "I can't believe I am mad at you. I've never been mad at you" I said "Your right I don't recall the last time you were ever mad at me" and I reached over and kissed her neck a few times, continuing to do my work. When she pulled away, again, I continued focusing on my work. She walks away mad. I guess she was hoping I would ask why she was mad, but I didn't want to go there. I know she doesn't want me to go this weekend, so there really is no reason to ask. 

She comes back to me, stands behind me and rubs her chest on my back. Saying "You see how swollen they are" I said "Yes they are" and I start touching them and give her a kiss. She walks away so I continue at what I was doing. She was in our bed room for about an hour and I didn't realize it but she was in the shower. I'm mad at myself because she had given me a sign, and at the time I didn't think of it especially since she is bleeding from her menstrual cycle. I'm sure if I would have gone in the shower with her she would have wanted to be with me. 

Mind you, I really had to finish what I was working on. I told her before coming home that I had work to do. I wasn't avoiding her.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

If she's a sahm why are you up, cooking breakfast and getting the kids ready?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Sbrown said:


> If she's a sahm why are you up, cooking breakfast and getting the kids ready?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She is not a SAHM. She was considering it. She works, just that her schedule is crazy. Some weeks she works a lot, some weeks not so much. She is considering a change. It really messes up our love life. She gets home late and too tired for anything when she works.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

> I guess she was hoping I would ask why she was mad,


No she was mad because you werent biting any baits. She was expecting u to run after her for more of that kiss and finally beg for sex.
She always came back because u were making her even more horny because u werent moving an inch from what u were doing.

Remember the pavlov dogs? Small reenforcements can become a drug.



> She comes back to me, stands behind me and rubs her chest on my back. Saying "You see how swollen they are" I said "Yes they are" and I start touching them and give her a kiss. She walks away so I continue at what I was doing. She was in our bed room for about an hour and I didn't realize it but she was in the shower. I'm mad at myself because she had given me a sign, and at the time I didn't think of it especially since she is bleeding from her menstrual cycle. I'm sure if I would have gone in the shower with her she would have wanted to be with me.
> 
> Mind you, I really had to finish what I was working on. I told her before coming home that I had work to do. I wasn't avoiding her.


The thing is, she wasnt really overtly direct. She told u her breast were swolen and once you started kissing she walked away, so that means she was still out for playing games.

Be patient. U were doing the right thing. it doesnt feel right because you have the habit to always look out for signs of interest and these seemed like real ones, but dont forget that this falling for indirect messages is what got u less power over sex at first. She used to make u hot then reject u though things had seemed so 100% safe for sex.

Now that you were assertive, you just have to keep the pace of how u are doing things now and she will be very direct in initiating.

Be ready for her to guilt trip you that you didnt read her since lately. In this case she just wants approval, which u shouldnt give. Behave innocent and stupid that those didnt seem like signs for u.

U have to make it almost impossible for her to double bind u. I ve seen women who never were direct in initiating become nymhos just because their husbands decided to ignore indirect signals.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Sexual Tension is in the air. I slapped her ass, walked away telling her it looked a bit bigger (Good thing here) and was calling for me to do so. I also told her that she is lucky she is on her menstrual cycle otherwise she would get more than a slap. She quickly said, that her cycle won't last for ever. Why is this a success for me? In the past, If I were to do the same I would get the "Stop that, or I don't like it when you just grab" Very different reaction.

I'm also gaining respect in the relationship. She was mad at me for not paying attention to something. In a harsh tone, she said I need to pay attention. Then followed by we will talk about this later. I told her, no, we will talk about it right now. She ignored me. But I soon realized why she was mad, we were there to do X, I thought it was for Y. I told her that I was under the impression we were supposed to be doing Y. I did not apologize. But then I started paying attention. When we left the place, we walked out and she hugged me from the back. Walking out of that place I was expecting her to start explaining to me how I disrespected those that were talking but it never happened.

She is also no longer asking me not to go away tonight. Last night she actually started asking me questions to see how we were going to coordinate my departure since she has to work today. 

Times are changing


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> No she was mad because you werent biting any baits. She was expecting u to run after her for more of that kiss and finally beg for sex.
> She always came back because u were making her even more horny because u werent moving an inch from what u were doing.
> 
> Remember the pavlov dogs? Small reenforcements can become a drug.


Keeping this in mind.



Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> The thing is, she wasnt really overtly direct. She told u her breast were swolen and once you started kissing she walked away, so that means she was still out for playing games.
> 
> Be patient. U were doing the right thing. it doesnt feel right because you have the habit to always look out for signs of interest and these seemed like real ones, but dont forget that this falling for indirect messages is what got u less power over sex at first. She used to make u hot then reject u though things had seemed so 100% safe for sex.
> 
> Now that you were assertive, you just have to keep the pace of how u are doing things now and she will be very direct in initiating.


Seeing her taking the initiative is what I am striving for. We had a lot of fun in the past and when things went wrong she kept saying to me how I pushed her to do things. I don't want to push. I will plant the seeds telling her what I desire, but I want her to make the decision that she is doing things for her, because she desires it, not because I guilt tripped her into doing things. I want her do things because she desires to please me as well, the same way how I do and allow things to happen, to see her being pleased. Nothing makes me happier.

Yesterday she said something but left a part to the imagination, and I gave her a look, she quickly said get out of my head thinking that I was implying something. I told her I'm not planning on doing that anymore. If she wants to tell me what happened next because she desires to please me, I will accept it. I'm not going to push her. She has yet to tell me. I am ok with that.



Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Be ready for her to guilt trip you that you didnt read her since lately. In this case she just wants approval, which u shouldnt give. Behave innocent and stupid that those didnt seem like signs for u.
> 
> U have to make it almost impossible for her to double bind u. I ve seen women who never were direct in initiating become nymhos just because their husbands decided to ignore indirect signals.


I can behave innocent and stupid. Let's see how I do.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

My wife called me let me know that she's coming home little late. She got home I had dinner ready. We ate. We spoke a bit. I commented once again on her swelling. Took a picture and showed her. She was also amused as they are big. She opened up her shirt and told me to have at it. I put my face in between them while she shook them. Never done that. Felt great. I played with them a bit moreI walked over to the kids and said good bye. I gave my wife a kiss good bye and she asked me where I was going. I reminded her and she said it was too late for me to go. I have a 2 hour drive and its dark already. She pleaded with me. Asking me to leave tomorrow. She said she had never pleaded for me to do something and all my nodding yes was making her mad. I explained we are starting late and I already said I was going to the guys. More importantly I want to go. I gave her a kiss and she rejected it. I looked at her and then kissed her. I walked away. From across the room She asked me if I was going to say bye to the kids in case this was the last time I ever see them. I explained that I already did and the boy screamed out bye dad. 


10 minutes later she writes. "Love please be safe, I would not know what to do if something was to happen to you. I'm mad because I'm scared, stress and worried. Please be safe. Please don't get drunk and act out of line. Please if they get in a fight don't get involved, please. Be home soon. I love you mi amor"

I wrote back "I love u too. I'll be fine."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Just got home. Had a great time with the guys. Good hello kiss. But Wife is overly quite.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She is not happy. These have been our conversations in the last half hour

Me: Cut my nails please
Jane: ask your daughter for the nail cutter she used it last
Me: I walked away

Me: honey, what are u doing?
Jane: I'm doing x
Me: ok cool
Jane: do u need me to do something?
Me: not at all

Jane: my phone is acting up
Me: u need a new phone
Jane: how much did u pay for the tv
Me: it's x a month for 2 years
Jane: that's not what I asked
Me: x dollars
Jane: I ask for one thing, u give me different answer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Psy.D. C. Maso (Jan 22, 2013)

First of all. Read the book I advised you to read from David Deida. You are always falling for the basic traps just because ure mind state isnt yet completely right:



> Just got home. Had a great time with the guys. Good hello kiss. But Wife is overly quite.


and 



> She is not happy. These have been our conversations in the last half hour


This is guilt tripping what she is doing. And you are reenforcing it the more you deal with it.
Her aim here is to make you start to figure her out again. If you do that, dont be surprised when she doesnt change her habbit of using indirect sexual approaches. Why? Because she is used to u figuring her out.

You have to understand that a woman wont give up her power over u without a fight. U have been really independant in the past few weeks and you even told her that u stopped figurrring her out. Believe me, she isnt fine with that, because that means more work for her to keep and motivate you to do things for her. But more treats for you. 
Just be aware that she will first always try to be non-compliant in order to get u angry, if that fails, she will become slowly more and more compliant. Believe me.

Before she would do some indirect stuff and then you would initiate sex or do X Y for her. With the result that you sometimes were never able to please her right.
Now, she isnt only more attracted to you, she also senses that she isnt able to manipulate you. Meaning that when she wants sex and then turns you down after you bite the bait, she is the one losing more than u! That is scary for her.

Look, when she offered her tits to you the other day, it was because she hoped to keep u home (remember she has been trying to get ure head of your going away the whole week!), because usually u would have wanted sex after such a move. Didnt work, so now she is desperate because she knows that sex isnt a manipultaion tool anymore.

Just for us to be straight here. She might not be conciously aware of what she does as manipulation. For her it might seem quite natural that u as man should do everthing for sex when all her other tools dont motivate you.

Keep it up.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> First of all. Read the book I advised you to read from David Deida. You are always falling for the basic traps just because ure mind state isnt yet completely right:


I don't see how I am failing. I am ignoring her attempts to start a fight. I got the book, maybe I will see how. Right now I'm just enjoying my day, not looking to start a fight. We just left a friend of her's house and I was talking to the husband in the backyard. We decided to hang out on Friday night. When we leave, He tells me that he looks forward to us hanging out on Friday. My wife asks me what that is about, and I said me and the husband made plans to hang out and my wife said "Good, we can get a baby sitter." She clearly understood that this was a guy thing, yet she is getting in the middle. I ignored her comment. She is clearly looking to get even, you want to go out, I have to go out. I don't see any way to deal with this but than to ignore her comments for now. She is looking to start a fight and I'm not going to start it. Soon after that almost had another fight. I comment about their house and she tries to argue a different point. I'm at a point where I just let her talk, any opinion I give is the basis for a new fight. I'll be reading my book.




Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Just for us to be straight here. She might not be conciously aware of what she does as manipulation. For her it might seem quite natural that u as man should do everthing for sex when all her other tools dont motivate you.
> 
> Keep it up.


I know she is not. She will see the wrong in her just like she did on Friday night by texting me. I am going to be patient.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

*** Explicit ***
During the bachelor party, we went to a strip club. I've never been. The whole night I just sat back and watched. One girl came up to me and offered me a lap dance. Believe it or not, this girl was physically identical to my wife. I told her I've never been in a strip club and she said she will take care of me. She did her thing and the whole time I felt like I was with my wife. Though it was fake, I kept thinking how much I would enjoy to see my wife wanting to please me like this. Half way though it, she told me I was very respectful and sweet, that I could touch, but I didn't. I told her how much I enjoyed it as that she looked like my wife and showed her a picture. She got a big smile when she heard that and again told me how sweet I was.

Another girl came over and sat on my lap and she started conversing. I spoke to her about all the sexual desires I have with my wife and all the adventures I have had with my wife. Showed her a picture as well, she said she would do my wife if my wife offered. I laughed. End of the night as I was walking away, she walked over to me and said to be sure to bring my wife next time. I smiled and walked away. I bring up this part of the weekend because I found out that my wife was told by the bachelor's future wife that it was planned to go to the strip club. This is one of the reasons why she was mad and didn't want me to go.

Last night was better than the day. We sat on the couch. I told her I was going to read my book and was on her Facebook. During that time, I would caress her. Feeling the warmth of her body. I got up and told her I was going to shower. I got into bed and kept reading my book. She said she was going to take a shower(first hint she wanted sex), and she did. She came out naked and put on a sexy pair of underwear, walked around a bit and got into bed. I put the book down and snuggled in. She was directing my hands so I complied. She started kissing me very intimately so I again complied, enjoying the moment. She would stop so I would stop, started snuggling her, enjoying her warmth. She would pull at my leg, at times push me closer to her, a lot of hints of her asking me to start, and I really wanted to, really bad and she was making me hot, but I let her lead. We ended up falling asleep. 

She couldn't sleep at night. She was dreaming and talking in her sleep. I was having trouble too because of my hard on and because I slept a lot that day. At one point in the night, she started caressing my penis though my silk boxers. She did this for a good five minutes, I enjoyed every minute, getting closer to her and kissing her on her neck. We fell asleep again and soon the alarm rings. She tells me we have another hour to stay in bed because her work schedule changed. She put my hands on her breast. We cuddled a bit more. at one point she sits up so I rub her back. She puts her back on my chest, stretching so I rub her chest and kiss her. Then I go ahead and put my hands over her underwear and feel her warmth. Something I don't recall doing in a long time. I did this for only a little bit enjoying how hot she was. I really enjoyed how hot she felt. She really wanted me but there wasn't much time for anything more, I look at the clock and tell her it's time to go. We got up and got ready for the day. Before leaving I could sense she was frustrated but I acted like I was oblivious to it and gave her a good kiss. I just texted her and told her how much I enjoyed having her stretch over me and feeling her warmth this morning and I'm sad that we had to go to work.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She just texted me "Me too, I was thinking about it while driving to work. I really miss you "


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Wife just told me she will be done early today. I feel like going home for lunch, and telling my wife I want her for Lunch. Not sure if I should though or if I just continue to let her get hotter and hotter.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Last night was awesome. I'm really enjoying the attention she is giving me. I usually am all over her trying to warm her up for sex. Table has turned. Again we showered and got intimate last night. She keeps kissing me, biting me everywhere, and caressing me. She kept hinting me to initiate sex but I just kept enjoying the moment. It's crazy, but i prefer the attention and intimacy to the actual sex right now. I hate having blue balls, last night I had to release the two week load because the pain was so great. I love seeing her this way. She would stop and I would think she was sleeping and she would get back up and start kissing me. Any other time I would have started sex as soon as I see the moment begin to fade. We fell asleep together. 

This morning I wake up and as soon as I get near she grabs me and locks in to me kissing me. Grabs my butt while she continues to kiss me and puts my hands on her butt. I pick her up and take her into the laundry room. I sit her down on a washing machine, kiss her neck, and kiss her chest and the twins, spread her legs open, she resists as if her vagina was off limits, but I keep my assertiveness keeping her legs open and she feels how hard I am. I continue to kiss her and then abruptly stop and go back to getting ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

You have the patience of a saint. Sounds like it's working, though! I hope she's thinking about it all day.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> You have the patience of a saint. Sounds like it's working, though! I hope she's thinking about it all day.


It's hard. Many times have I wanted to rip her panties off. I know she wants me to, but I won't until she shows me or tells me to rip them off. 

Years ago. When our relationship was sour I actually spent 3 months waiting for her to initiate sex. I didn't even masturbate once. But I did it all wrong, I ignored her as much as she did me. I don't really recall how sex was initiated. Actually I kind of do. Two and a half months into the wait, I went to a party and she refused to go. I ended up cheating on my wife. By cheating I mean I spent time with a friend kissing. She implied sex but I told her that it was only for my wife. I didn't have intimacy with the girl after that. I changed soon after and I think my wife got a hint and the jealousy may have broken the sexless cycle. In case you wonder, I eventually told my wife everything. At the time she was ok with it but I know it affected our relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

"If a woman suggests something that changes a man's perspective, then he should make a new decision based on his new perspective. But he should never betray his own deepest knowledge and intuition in order to please his woman or "go along" with her. Both she and he will be weakened by such an action. They will grow to resent each other, and the crust of accumulated authenticity will burden their love, as well as their capacity for free action." David Deida

So True.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Been trying to keep up with your thread.
Can't dismiss the urge to add a few cents, from a woman's point of view.

A couple of comments for you...
1) The week before "period" is highly sexually aroused. Don't miss the boat this month. We all assume you men know this. And should kinda know when "period" time is. 
2) When a woman says "I was hurt by what you said".... All you need to do is say I"M SORRY. Please. *Never *reason your way out of it. Feelings are feelings. There is no reasoning (which is a fun way of saying you argued that she was WRONG). Respect. And self awareness of how your actions may make others feel.
3) I'm fine means you aren't truly listening. (Reasoning instead?)

That's all I have. MMSL. 5 Love Languages. And RD is not a troll.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

deejov said:


> Been trying to keep up with your thread.
> Can't dismiss the urge to add a few cents, from a woman's point of view.
> 
> A couple of comments for you...
> ...



1. I am aware. But I'm looking for balance in our desire, not a schedule of when I should initiate sex with Jane. There has been a true imbalance in our relationship and it is all my fault. I working to make it better.

2. Not sure what you are referring to here. I would like to know. But I've been apologizing my whole life when I never had intentions of hurting people. I will take what she says and her feelings into consideration, but I can't apologize anymore when I didn't think I was wrong.

3. Again, not sure what you are referring to. But I do know that when she says she is fine, all it means is that she is putting this disagreement on hold until the next time it becomes relevant. Recently I have called her on this and requested that we settle the matter at that moment. Either she hasn't yet conveyed her message in a way I can comprehend or she has not accepted that I made a decision based on my best understanding of the situation. Either way, I've never looked forward to waiting to readdress, nor do I plan on leaving it so it can be readdressed.


PS: I may sound insensitive or like a d*ck if that is a better word. I'm looking for balance in my life. I'm in a d*ck mood right now. It will subside. I appreciate your following and comments.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Yesterday, I sent her a picture of her reaching for something in the kitchen and told her she looks like a sexy nurse. Then the conversation followed


YESTERDAY 
ME: If I were a patient, I would make my sexy/hot nurse spend a lot of time in my room. "Oh nurse, can u get me a blanket from the top shelf please?"

Jane: Stupid
Jane: ;-)

ME: Wait don't go, I need a bath
ME: So will my nurse bathe me today?

Jane: Sure
Jane: Well keep it in mind all day. Bye have to go

Today
Jane: I will have the tub ready for your bath tonight.

ME: Can't wait


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## mr hillbilly (Jul 16, 2012)

Good luck. I appreciate this thread because I feel our stories are very similar. I'm just not ready to confront my problems yet.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

2. Not sure what you are referring to here. I would like to know. But I've been apologizing my whole life when I never had intentions of hurting people. I will take what she says and her feelings into consideration, but I can't apologize anymore when I didn't think I was wrong.



Put in another way:
A person is never _wrong _when they tell you that you hurt them. Arguing (reasoning) that her "hurt feelings" are not warranted is beyond boundaries. 

Self awareness is the act of being aware of how your actions affect other people, and taking responsibility for that. 

Responsibility starts with listening to feedback, and accepting that other's see things differently than you do. Empathy is the act of putting yourself in their shoes, and understanding why your actions are hurtful.

It's totally not about right or wrong. Or your intentions. It's about listening to what is being said, and being truthful. 

No one is perfect. But the perfect situation is one where you GET feedback and opportunity to better present your intentions. 

You can be thankful she gives you feedback, or be right.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

deejov said:


> Put in another way:
> A person is never _wrong _when they tell you that you hurt them. Arguing (reasoning) that her "hurt feelings" are not warranted is beyond boundaries.


i'm thinking you are referring to this statement I made before "We had a conversation last night and I hurt her feelings. She explained how something hurt her, and I didn't console her, instead I tried to bring reason."

The dog is dying. It was previously discussed that the dog was dying. I simply tried to tell her again that it is expected and we need to follow through. I did apologized for being insensitive to her feelings. But note, she did not tell me she was hurt by my insensitivity, I figured it out after her passive aggressive behavior. She is getting better at telling me when things hurt her and how she feels. I am taking her feelings and my thoughts into consideration when I act out. It's a work in progress


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

I got home and she showed me a bottle for the bubble bath she was planning for me. I smiled.

She was on the phone with a friend who is being physically abused. And my wife made a comment about how no woman should take physical abuse, and then she loudly started talking about emotional abuse, stating how through "these" types of abuses, abusers think that they can keep their partners down, oppressing them. Because through abuse like this the abused won't see that there is a better world out there. (at this moment, from the way she was saying things, I started thinking that she was referring to the lack of sex and my recent change in behavior and how maybe she felt emotionally abused), then she noticed me looking at her and her tone changed and she went back to talking about physical abuse. I really felt this was her showing me her frustration. I kind of got mad.

She got off her call, She saw me on the phone, I was looking for a gift to buy her and she requested that I get off and help the kids with their homework. Because I was now annoyed, I childishly told her that I was doing something for her but I can do it later. My daughter looked over and asked if the what was on the screen was for her mom. I said yes, but I can focus on that later. My daughter said great because she needs a new one. This spawned a disagreement. But I know it was my fault, I could have worded things better. There was no need in me trying to ruffle her feathers. I eventually stated I was wrong and told her what my plans were.

Later that night we are talking on the floor, kids are in bed. She asks me if something is wrong. I tell her I'm not sure what she means. She then tells me how she sees that I am different, at one point stating that I am acting like my sh*t don't stink, like I am too good, for a lack of a better translation. I rap my arms around her and tell her that I want her to close her eyes. She then says that she wonders why we didn't have sex last night. I ask her to close her eyes. We sit there for 10 minutes holding each other. During those ten minutes I started thinking how all of this has been affecting her. I was thinking that I will have to tell her why I have been acting the way I have, but having her understand my current state of mind would not be healthy for the two of us. I decided against it. I figured I would say that I don't know why we didn't have sex if she brought it up. I see she is falling asleep so I take her to the bedroom. She asks me if we can do the bath in the morning, I said i was ok with what ever she wanted.

We are laying in bed and she asks me if it is ok if she falls asleep holding my penis. I said yes and she did.

This morning the alarm goes off and she is again kissing me, grabbing me. I would kiss her. At one point I was about to pull at her panties, but I controller myself. I was so close to doing it, especially after our talk last night. Then it happened. We are cuddling and I go to get up, and she grabs me, whispers that she wants me, that she needs me*(Thank you Maso)*. I kiss her and say OK. She goes to freshen up in the bathroom and I am waiting for her. Sex was intense, it was very passionate on both sides. It was quick, but we both gave it our all and came at the same time. Later this morning she comes up to me and started kissing me. Then she said "You made me beg for it," I just smiled and said "Yes, I did" she slapped my butt and I walked away.

PS: Probably not the best timing on all of this, don't want her to think that sex = gifts, but my intentions were to buy her the gift soon as her current one is practically useless. I saw a deal on ebay and I texted my wife about it to make sure it is the one she wants. I won the bid.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I love happy endings. Literally and figuratively.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

My Jane is on her way back. This moment of her admitting that she desired sex is a great step. She has been dripping all day long. She thinks it's my cum , but I know it is her. She is burning with desire. She just got home and she was leaking through her pants. Brought a big smile to my face and helped me remember the first time I saw this about a year ago after some hot adventures we once had. My Jane is almost here 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> My Jane is on her way back. This moment of her admitting that she desired sex is a great step. She has been dripping all day long. She thinks it's my cum , but I know it is her. She is burning with desire. She just got home and she was leaking through her pants. Brought a big smile to my face and helped me remember the first time I saw this about a year ago after some hot adventures we once had. My Jane is almost here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A lust filled cauldren.


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## mr hillbilly (Jul 16, 2012)

*Re: Re: These are the Songs About Jane. A true story/journal of our sex life.*



SongsAboutJane said:


> My Jane is on her way back. This moment of her admitting that she desired sex is a great step. She has been dripping all day long. She thinks it's my cum , but I know it is her. She is burning with desire. She just got home and she was leaking through her pants. Brought a big smile to my face and helped me remember the first time I saw this about a year ago after some hot adventures we once had. My Jane is almost here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amen


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

SongsAboutJane said:


> My Jane is on her way back. This moment of her admitting that she desired sex is a great step. She has been dripping all day long. She thinks it's my cum , but I know it is her. She is burning with desire. She just got home and she was leaking through her pants. Brought a big smile to my face and helped me remember the first time I saw this about a year ago after some hot adventures we once had. My Jane is almost here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wasn't expecting this, but I must share. I said my Jane is almost here, I was wrong. My Jane has arrived. Without a doubt. I just hope I can handle it better this time. I hope we continue the communication we had once had. Having Jane comes with a lot of responsibility. If Jane doesn't talk to me, I get anxious. I need to overcome this because I know her heart is mine. I could not sleep last night wondering about Jane. I know this is all vague, but too personal for me to share more at the moment.

Last night was amazing. We went to bed and once again we played the i'm interested, i'm not interested game. She would kiss me and then stop. I would reach for my side of the bed and she would pull me back to her. This happened twice. On the second time I got on top of her and started kissing her body. I spread her legs and she started moving to rub on me. I did the same. At one point in the dark, I get up to turn the fan off and strip my underwear off as i walk back to bed. I get back on her, and reach for her butt to find she had taken her underwear off. We both laughed at this, then she felt on me and realized I didn't have any on either and then we really started laughing. I told her how on fire she was and how I want to consume all of it. I did, we did, we consumed each other very well this time. 

Twice in one day. Awesome!


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I love happy endings. Literally and figuratively.


Miss Scarlett,
This is just the beginning. Lets call it end of chapter 1 :smthumbup:


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## mr hillbilly (Jul 16, 2012)

I really need to go back to post one and reread everything to better understand how you did it.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Chapter 2

I think my Jane is thinking of cheating on me. I don't have anything concrete, but the day we had sex twice, She posted on Facebook how she was in the mood to look for trouble. See this is a calling. A way to get negative attention from me. I think she was mad because I made her beg for sex. My wife once dated a married guy. She said she did it because she was a good girl and was looking to do something out of her norm. In her words "to get in trouble". I found it strange that she wanted sex for a second time on the same day. She had gone out with a friend that night and they had drinks. When Jane gets hit on at bars it turns her on. She always comes home and uses me. I'm thinking something like that happened that night as well. I know, I know, I'm still trying to get in her head. I'm driving myself crazy
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Perhaps its not that dismal. I know when I get a new surge if sexual energy it does make me feel somewhat like that. Tell her you can give her all the trouble shes looking for and more. 

If you want to break this cycle then you need to not let yourself fall back into old patterns. She has responded to this 'new you' that is confident and in control. Don't let yourself go to this petty place. If you make yourself seem needy for her you will lose your momentum.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Perhaps its not that dismal. I know when I get a new surge if sexual energy it does make me feel somewhat like that. Tell her you can give her all the trouble shes looking for and more.
> 
> If you want to break this cycle then you need to not let yourself fall back into old patterns. She has responded to this 'new you' that is confident and in control. Don't let yourself go to this petty place. If you make yourself seem needy for her you will lose your momentum.



After she posted I kind of did reply like that. I wrote on her Facebook "little trouble maker left a mark on me and she is going to have to pay for it". 

I'm trying hard not to let her get to me. I want our relationship to work, I want trust and balance. But she knows how to drive me crazy. I'm trying hard not to show my insecurity, but it's hard when she asks me questions like "is everything ok?" "Is something wrong?" She reads me like a book the way I read her. 

I'm positive me writing on this post is driving her crazy. She just got home from work. Bye all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She just called me a jerk. I explained my opinion and stood my ground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Awesome. She just turned around and said she has been thinking of something mischievous. I said ok tell me. She said she recently thinking about using the swing she bought for my bday a few months ago. I said ok we can do that. She says you don't have to show so much enthusiasm. I jump up and lift her off her chair and tell her why wait, let's do it right here. I start humping on her as she laughs. Kiss her and say "can I go back to watching my movie now?" She laughs and says "yes, I'll go back to doing what I was doing" and continues to start At me with a smile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

We had sex this morning. She was telling me about how our son woke up with a hard wiwi. He sleeps naked like his dad. When she asked him about it he said that it happens randomly, that he has no control. When she said this, I put her hand on mine and was hard too. I started kissing her and took her there. She wasn't ready. We should not have had sex. It was good, but she was not initially for it. It took work to get her body warmed up. But she guided me this time so I don't hurt her and she came good. After we were done I felt like I guilt tripped her into it because of the jealousy I have been feeling lately. I feel like I stole her energy instead of her desiring to give it to me.

I've been fighting with something, and I haven't told anyone here until now. My wife is calling for Michael to seduce her again. But I'm not sure if it is actually working. She has been publicly giving him hints on twitter that are reminiscent of the last time she had an affair with him. Today she just stated that she was off work on twitter and I know this is a calling to see if he initiates something with her. She wrote online "when you set a goal be clear on what the result will be.... good day to reach our goals as I'm not working today." I stated before that Michael does not make me Jealous. What makes me jealous is my wife doing this so secretly in public, if she would just tell me then at least I would know where we stand.

In a private message I wrote:
"Be productive. If that means I have to stay home the whole day with the kids while you get things done, so be it. I want you determined. If you do this, don't do it for me, don't do it because I pressure you, do this for yourself, because your core desires it. No other reason. My ego wants to be with you, but this time I know I have to let you lead. Reach for your goals so we can put all of this behind us and move forward with our lives. I want to be there to support you on your decisions."

I can't stop her if she wants to do something, I'm only delaying the inevitable.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Hang on there, Songs. Is she actually saying things for this Michael to respond to or are you reading into it? 

How do you know she is actually saying these things for his benefit particularly. 

Maybe she likes to make you jealous and is being intentionally vague. Maybe it's her way of baiting you. 

I'm not sure that I'm buying this whole Michael thing unless she has been very plain in her intentions.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Note, she says she never had sex with Michael, but there was an emotional connection for her at least. When I found out, I was not mad. Because I did a similar thing a few years back, no sex, but definitely had a connection. I confessed when I found out. She told me at one time that she did it to partly to get me mad. So she was not successful the first time. He stated it was over when I found out so I don't know if he is taking the bate. He has a family to look after so he has valid concerns. I pretty much blocked her online so I don't see her messages anymore. I told her a few weeks ago that Michael doesn't make me Jealous. He doesn't. But she drives me crazy with all of this. I have been showing her desire and praise for the last few weeks, but I haven't been showing neediness. I have not been grouchy about lack of sex nor have I tried hard to initiate it. She is definitely looking to bate me. I feel like she is taking my lack of full attention to me being unfaithful.

1. She said publicly she was looking for trouble. This is what she told me was her reason for seeing him. to get out of her island, her norm.

2. Tells the world during the bachelor party and this week that I was out of town.

3. She publicly writes "I'm looking for you" 

4. She publicly writes "Filled with Joy listening to X" Where X is the singer of a song that she once told me fueled her drive to see him.

5. She put up some tasteful but hot pictures online and said "Great Adventures" The last time she posted "Great Adventures" was to the picture she posted online when she last went out to see him.

6. She put up a picture online of the two of us that Micheal once marked that he liked. It was the night that we ran into him.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

She wrote to me "Thanks my love, you are the only one I truly have in my life, you and god who is always by my side."


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

We had sex on 9-25. The night that her and Michael were acting so friendly. Then on the morning of 10-17 after starving her for about three weeks, she begged me for sex. That day she goes "looking for trouble." and we have sex again that night. On Oct 4th, she showed the first sign of looking for him. On the 17th two more signs, on then every other day after something being said. 10-22 we have sex again and she is looking for him. I may just confront her.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

So I got into her account and i found her message to him. I confronted her. She said it was all innocent and that I shouldn't go through her stuff. She told me she can't take me any longer. She almost walked out on me. I grovelled explaining that I am insecure. I was wrong to go through her account, but in my opinion they should not be having this kind of conversation.


Jane: Hoping to assist you <attached is a picture of her in her underwear>
Him: Hmmm... wow
Jane: Help yourself
Him: LOL
Jane: ?
Him: You telling me to take care of it myself...
Jane: Was I of help... Did you?
Him: At work?
Jane: No at the mall, work fri, sat
Him: Thong Shopping
Jane: Yes
Jane: Also got a nice set to dressup(or dress down tonight) he is going out of town on monday night.
Him: Well hopefully u guys will have a good night
Jane: I hope you do too
Him: Hopefully so
Jane: Make plans for it, you have a lot of good skills that can convince any woman. 
Him: I need to find time
Jane: Ok.....
Him: But thanks.
Jane: 
Jane: Any time you need a boost just let me know <Smiley face wink with tongue out>
Him: LOL.... Ill keep that in mind.

....

Her: I went to your office the other day.
Him: Oh Yeah?
Him: Lol... yep. we do have that
Her: I enjoyed my cup of cafe' uhmmm
Him: Did X get it for you
Him: What is
Him: Oh.. wasn't sure what you meant
Her: Sorry just realized how bad it sounded. I type it as I was doing something else.
Him: Oh no problem, Just didn't understand... LOL. U working?
Her: No just finished showering. Be there tomorrow. Btw X gave me the code to the office
Him: I'm off tomorrow
Her: 
Him: Yeah, taking the day off
Her: Cool
Him: 
Her:


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

This is just a guess on my part, but I wonder if this behavior from her is being fueled by jealousy and resentment about the strip club. It sounds like from what you described previously that she was very upset about you going to that bachelor party, and the strip club was at the heart of her reason for being upset. Maybe she's just trying to even the score for what she perceives to be cheating on your part?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

And you think she wasn't physical with him? lol, keep burying your head in the sand. Wow.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

No solid evidence of that in what I'm seeing above, but it definitely looks headed in that direction. Sending underwear pics to an old love interest? Not much else it could be indicating.


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## herblackwings (May 16, 2013)

Jane's song should be "crazy" by gnr. Dude pack your bags and leave. I only read the last few pages - mostly in awe. So apologies if I'm off base here. But know this: she is making Michael's toes curl. Get out before you get too deep. I'm thinking that's too late though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Seriously -.a photo of her in her undies!? Way over the line. Way. 

I don't know either of these people but from the conversation it reads like she is pandering to him. He doesnt sound as interested as she does. That makes it worse!

That's bull****.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Seriously -.a photo of her in her undies!? Way over the line. Way.
> 
> I don't know either of these people but from the conversation it reads like she is pandering to him. He doesnt sound as interested as she does. That makes it worse!
> 
> That's bull****.



Of course she is pandering to him. This is mostly my fault. I previously allowed this to happen and told her he doesn't make me jealous, but I've told her this is not healthy for our relationship. In the past I allowed it because of my guilt for cheating on her. This may sound sick to most but she always asked me for permission before she would see him. She never saw him without me knowing and I believe it. 

When confronting her, I told her that I'm not asking her to not be friends with him but I'm not interested in seeing this pander out again. I told her she needs to get whatever it is she is looking for out of this game so we can move on with our lives as I won't be a part of it anymore. I sensed frustration in her this last week. I really think she wanted to start this over again and is mad for me not accepting it anymore. Technically he broke it off. So it makes sense she wants to play again.

She told me she wants to get financial independence from me and I agreed. This is her playing mind games with me again, hinting at me that she is frustrated. I'm beginning to ignore her attempts to instigate my insecurities. I've realized as the Doc has said before that she just needs me to take control of the relationship so she can feel that she can trust me. When I give her choices or ask her what she wants she begins to value me less. I'm ignoring her on social media and taking control of my decisions.


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## mr hillbilly (Jul 16, 2012)

*Re: Re: These are the Songs About Jane. A true story/journal of our sex life.*



SongsAboutJane said:


> Of course she is pandering to him. This is mostly my fault. I previously allowed this to happen and told her he doesn't make me jealous, but I've told her this is not healthy for our relationship. In the past I allowed it because of my guilt for cheating on her. This may sound sick to most but she always asked me for permission before she would see him. She never saw him without me knowing and I believe it.
> 
> When confronting her, I told her that I'm not asking her to not be friends with him but I'm not interested in seeing this pander out again. I told her she needs to get whatever it is she is looking for out of this game so we can move on with our lives as I won't be a part of it anymore. I sensed frustration in her this last week. I really think she wanted to start this over again and is mad for me not accepting it anymore. Technically he broke it off. So it makes sense she wants to play again.
> 
> She told me she wants to get financial independence from me and I agreed. This is her playing mind games with me again, hinting at me that she is frustrated. I'm beginning to ignore her attempts to instigate my insecurities. I've realized as the Doc has said before that she just needs me to take control of the relationship so she can feel that she can trust me. When I give her choices or ask her what she wants she begins to value me less. I'm ignoring her on social media and taking control of my decisions.


How are you doing? Any confrontations over the weekend?


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

mr hillbilly said:


> How are you doing? Any confrontations over the weekend?


Yes. We went to a party this weekend. She was a ball of emotion because the day didn't start the way she wanted it to. She kept picking at me to start a disagreement. I made jokes, only made her more mad. She recently told me I need to stop being so obsessive over her. So that is what I did. During the party I reconnected with a lot of good friends. So every time I would step away I would let her know and enjoyed myself. I drank, ate, and laughed as much as I wanted while she spilled her negative energy to all those that crossed her path. There was an after party and she didn't want to go. I decided not to go either, not because she wanted to go home, but because our kids had to be picked up from the babysitter. 

The following day, I did house chores while she slept. She did some chores later and cooked dinner but really wasn't in the mood for doing much. I did about two weeks worth of laundry and as she sat watching TV, told her I needed her to fold it. She said she was feeling lazy. I told her I needed the laundry folded so how exactly are we going to get that done. She asked me if I needed it today, I said yes, I don't want to spend the week looking for clothes. She was moody about it, but later thanked me for motivating her to get her up and moving. She spoke with her friend on her phone and commented on how glad she was that I got her to get up and moving and that her headache went away because of it. She offered that we shower together later that night. We did. I made her cum without penetrating, using my mouth, or using my hands  She was disappointed because she didn't get a chance to make me cum. I told her we can continue another time but she didn't want that. She offered me a blowjob which she normally does it to slowly for me to finish. But to please her, I showed her how to give me a hand job while blowing me at the same time to make me cum fast. I guided her until I was done. She said she enjoyed it very much and thanked me.



During the party I was told two things by two people that I keep hearing over and over. I'm starting to understand.

1. I was dancing with a friends wife and as we danced, she kept trying to lead. I told her to let go, and let me lead, she kept trying to move and I kept pushing her back to my direction and telling her to let me lead. Soon after when she let her body move to the flow that I sent her, she said it was awesome. I told her that all goes well when you let the man lead, she said "You need to tell my husband that"

2. The bartender for some reason told me he was married 25 years. I asked his secret. He said "Listen to what your wife has to say, and then do what you want."


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Jane is constantly testing me. I told her a few days ago that I loved the shower we had and I was looking forward to another one of her bjs. She smiled and said tonight. That night came and playfully I hinted that I was ready and she turned it into a game of prostitution where we were negotiating a price. At one point she said she would take 50 for a handjob but no blowjob. I kept emphasizing I wanted a Bj as well, but the negotiations weren't going anywhere. I told her 50 for a bj or I walk. She said no. So I said ok and turned off the lights and gave her a kids goodnight. This made her really mad. I gave her a kiss goodnight and she was in total disbelief. Telling me I shouldn't be mad that it was a game. I laughed it off showing no signs of being mD, because I wasn't And told her I didn't want a hand job and I offered 50 for a bj and it didn't happen. She started trying to guilt trip me saying that it was a game and she was playing along. So I jumped on her, she telling me no, I said I wanted my Bj, she laughed and told me to get off. I told her I can kiss and hold her down all night and I won't stop until I get my bj. She said tomorrow. I told her she was working the next two nights and the chance of intimacy when she comes home from work is 0 so I'm not giving up. She laughed. I got off her and laid across the bed waiting. She came over and started rubbing me, still a bit hesitant. And this is where it got interesting. Instead of a bj, she went ahead and did something, played on a fantasy that I have been having for years. She saw how it excited me and she rolled with it. I finished well. I thanked her with many kisses soon after I was done. 

Why is this interesting. I think she was testing me and I failed. She made it clear last week that this fantasy will never happen. And I made it clear I won't partake in her to play games with Michael or any other man. 

I've been spending less time with her lately. Spending more time with friends and even reconnecting with old friends. One really old friend who my wife has never met but who I have spoken about to her many times. A friend who was there for me when I was going thru relationship problems early on in life. A girl stuck in my friendzone and it's been made clear. She made it clear to me that the relationship did not work because I was too obsessive and worked to hard to try to make it work. She told me how this really turned my ex off. I agreed and saw a patern in my behavior going back over 25 years of my life. 

Jane is beginning to feel jealous. Or at least I see that. Went out with friends last night and she boxed me in so I would be away from all the guys. I already spent an hour with them at the bar as we waited for our table so I didn't care. But shortly after sitting I noticed she purposely sat us away from them. When we met at the restaurant and she saw I was already talking to them, I felt the cold shoulder. I got her a drink so she can hang with the ladies and I talked to the guys while we waited. 

I've gotten a strange vibe from her, but never again will I go to her and say "is something wrong babe". She craves this more than ever and I don't care to go into her head. Again main reason why I'm not logging into social networks anymore. I broke down last week and did look at her public posts but they were very non-controversial so I logged out before I could read anymore. 

Last night before bed she played another game. She was looking on her phone and asked me to promise not to get mad. Before I would say sure I won't get mad in hopes to get any detail of what she wanted to share. This time I told her I won't promise it as I don't know what she is going to tell me. I started getting mad and told her to ahead and tell me I won't get mad. My heart was racing, new thing for me, she got to me. She shows me a picture on her phone, I could not make it out, it was our bed. I eventually got the notion that she was looking for my reaction when I noticed the pillows were in a way that it would look like a man was sleeping in our bed. She said she was just playing and saw the pillows and was startled by it so took a picture. A little secret for all, I may be obsessed with Jane at times, but she can be obsessive as well. In my mind this is a clear example of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Jane had asked me to do something for her, but I explained how it was not possible. The details of what it is, is not important. She asked me to do x. More on this below.

Jane's time of the month came and we didn't take advantage. Let me rephrase, she didn't take advantage of it with me at least. The moment never came. I'm sure she is still talking to her two guy friends online. Funneling her emotional needs through them. It doesn't bother me, but I think I made it clear that I don't want to play that game. If I do get wind of it though, there will be trouble. I'm looking for the moment to really emphasize that.

She woke me up this morning and caressed my body. she touched me below and I was aroused. I told her to touch again so she can see what she started. She was surprised to see me at attention. I told her she had to take care of it. I said she must give me a hand job or something. We played around, laughing back and forth. She gets up from the bed and I said, "OK, You have to at least give me a blow job." I take the covers off so she can see. She walks over to me and takes care of me. When she is done, she said that I am becoming very manipulative. I laughed and said so when do you want to do X. She laughed. I then said, who is manipulating who?



later on, there is an text exchange ...

Jane: I left my make up bag 
Jane: My face looks like sh*t
Me: Good, I don't want you looking hot at work.
Jane: Well the good thing is they will love me without make up. Fresh Face out of bed. The real me.
Me: Then you have nothing to worry about.
Jane: I was sharing with you

I do not reply to her comment to try to get me to apologized. I want to see how far I can take this. Minutes go by.

Jane: So, I don't look hot without makeup?
Me: I think you look OK without makeup

A few minutes go by. I had to pass by her job for an appointment at work, so I had her makeup bag with me and dropped it off. I sent her a picture of her makeup bag sitting on the reception counter of her job. I don't say anything else.

Jane: You didn't have to do that.
Me: You are welcome.

a few minutes later. I text her a recording of a song we listened to and talked about last night. the recording went like this. I also write "Play with these words all day. Listen to what they say"

"Don't you worry bout gettin' fixed up
When you wake up your pretty enough
Look out your window at the cloud of dust
That's my head lights, that's my truck
Come on baby don't you keep me waiting
I gotta go I got a reservation,
Tailgate for two underneath the stars
Kiss on your lips when your in my arms"

Jane: I love you babe



She is working late today so I'll be cooking dinner. Thinking of serving dinner under the stars. Let's see how it goes.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't know, Songs - I find this male friend thing unaccceptable. Does she continue to punish you then for your indiscretions? It seems a lot of energy is flowing outside the relationship.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> I don't know, Songs - I find this male friend thing unaccceptable. Does she continue to punish you then for your indiscretions? It seems a lot of energy is flowing outside the relationship.


This is her way of punishing me. She is very insecure. A good friend of my wife reminded me that our high school reunion is coming up. I asked my wife if I can go with her friend who also went to that hs, with the assumption that my wife will stay with the kids. She said yes. I didn't ask her to go and that was bad but I had reasons. 

Recently she has been openly showing me that she is talking to these guys. And I can tell she is doing it to get my attention. About five years ago I went alone to the reunion and she questioned some pictures of me and an old friend. A few nights ago She tells me if I go, she doesn't want to hear any drama about me and another woman. I told her that I did not disrespect her at the last reunion. I also reminded her that our game of her playing with Michael and me flirting was over. 

Just today we are in bed she is on her phone. I am on mine. She flips to a message she has with Michael and then eyeballs me to see if I am reading it. I ignore her. 10 minutes later she is asking me questions about my trip. Why am I going. Etc. showing signs of jealousy. I told her I want to see old friends(by name) that didn't go the last time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

My recent posts below. our intimacy is at a new low. I posted a new question online talking about the last time we had intimacy about two weeks ago. Posted below. As far as a time line, we had not had penetration since my last post. Twice we were intimate in that we both got pleasure, but I could not penetrate her and I had to put a lot of effort to get her there.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...etration-issues.html?highlight=songsaboutjane


This thread talks about the trip she wanted to go on. A trip to the home town where her crush lived in. I asked her at one point if she wanted me to go and she smiled and said yes. So I'm here now with her.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...ot-sure-what-do.html?highlight=songsaboutjane


We are currently on the trip. Apparently her crush for this guy "X" is a family secret. One family member made a comment on how my wife was supposed to inherit the house where X was born. I quickly asked how is that, but they all looked at each other and stayed quite. I looked at my wife asking what is going on with my eyes. Sitting on my lap, my wife looked at me and said I shouldn't ask questions for "X" if I already know and asked if I was mad. I told her I wasn't mad, but didn't realize that everyone knew about her crush. She gave me a very intimate kiss shortly after. 

We went to a secluded beach with a water fall. I asked her if she wanted to go to the caves with me and she said no. Every attempt I make for us to be intimate or to show that I want intimacy gets me shot down. I haven't initiated sex in weeks and she hasn't had any desire either.

This lack of intimacy makes me feel like every time I look at her she looks at me with eyes of contempt and displeasure. Then next thing I know she will reach over and give me a deep kiss. We took a hot shower together last night, she hugged me, gave me a deep kiss, and fell asleep with me holding her. 


She has yet to see X, I'm going to ask her if she would like to. Part of me wants to meet him, and the other part want her happy even if it is not with me.


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## SongsAboutJane (Sep 24, 2013)

Her childhood crush, X came up in conversation. actually his name is a verb like neal, so when I heard it, i asked my wife if maybe we should ask Neal to go out with us tonight. She said she will think about it but she thinks it's not safe as he runs in bad circles. I didn't say anything. She asked a family member if they knew where X worked. She spent sometime on her phone while I stayed up stairs. She gave me a few intimate kisses though out the day and told me she loved me.

I'm beginning to thing that she just likes to test the waters. I felt jealous because she doesn't talk much about X, but the more she does, the more comfortable I feel. At times I think she just uses his name to get me jealous. Partially because she feels bad that she doesn't get excited about sex as much as I do. She told me last week that she is going to see a doctor because she only desires sex once a month and she knows how much more I desire it. I would really prefer not to play these games. But I've decided i'm not going to let her lack of sex be a method for her to control my desire to be happy. I'm at a point where I show her that if it happens great, if not, even if it hurts, I'm not going to show her.


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