# I doubt he will fight for us



## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

I posted before about not being sexually attracted/in love w my H anymore here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...-love-sexually-attracted-husband-anymore.html

I am going to tell him, that I am not in love, etc ( we have a cabin rented memorial weekend with another couple, I am waiting till after that to avoid akwardness for them) but I get the feeling he will not fight for us, he will let his wife and kids slip away.

Due to the great advice of many on TAM, (thank you) I have pulled back and am no longer confusing him by being complacent and meeting his needs when he doesn't meet mine. Yesterday:

I got incredibly sick, fever, cold, etc. I was home with the two kids, 2&4. They were driving me crazy, and I was sick, very sick. He called at 4:00 and said he was on his way home, he was going to get my mothers day present first. I said, "please just come home I need you here. I have a fever. Please, just be here so I can go to bed. " This convo was very sweet on both parts. No nastiness. Flash forward- He comes home at 6pm. He works ten minutes away. He stopped and got food thru the drive thru. He could've been home by 4;45, but he had stopped at the pet store, and spent a whole hour there buying the dog treats. I got upset and told him "How could you stop and buy dog treats when I am sitting here sick waiting for you?" He immediately got defensive and said- " I was already at the pet store when you called, and it's my money!" What an ass. ( I bring home 40% of our income mind you, and do 90 % of the housework) He started to shout about how he can spend $ however he wants. MInd you, I was upset that he went shopping for fun while I was sick, not that he spent money, I didn't care!

I picked up the receipt and the time said 5:30. I said " you were at work when you called, now you say you were already at the pet store?- you left the pet store at 5:30! You spent one hour shopping for the dog while I was home sick!" He screamed that the dog needed food ( the dog has a bin full of food, this was just treats). He was lying- the dog didn't need food, and he did stop at the pet store and lounged around knowing that I desperately needed him at home. Then he began saying that I am always grilling him about where he is and when can he come home. I swear to god- I never do! I DONT' CARE!!! I swear!! He always does this- flips and switches whatever I say- to make me the bad guy. 

Well normally, I would've been the one to break the silence and start the peace. But I no longer am doing that. I am ****ing pissed. This is one story of many- of him coming first. always. We have been in a mexican standoff since yesterday. By now I would've apologized. I am holding my ground- and giving him exactly what he dishes to me.

when I tell him that I am no longer in love etc, we need to fix it, - I know he will not fight for us. I am sure. He will say " me neither, your a *****" and let us drift away from his life. 

I'm sad- but also, why live with someone who will not fight for us?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Don't be so quick to give up. You two have a deeply entrenched dynamic and changing that isn't going to happen overnight. Took me 10 months to break a similar dynamic in my marriage once I truly saw it and knew how to fix. 

The clues are you got sick and he avoided. Already both of you are struggling with change. It's normal and it will pass if you stick with it long enough. 

Stay the course.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> The clues are you got sick and he avoided.


Why would he do this? He does this often.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

What struck me about your post is your husband exhibits the very character traits of an alcoholic. No, I am not even speculating he is one, but I wonder if there was an addict in his family or someone important in his life who zoned out and left him to care for himself.

I lived with a turn-the-tables-and-always-blame-me husband. Did he fight for the marriage after I left? Nope. Went on a sixteen month bender. Yeah, you heard it right - SIXTEEN MONTHS.

He is better now, but still remains unemployed.

It drove me nuts that my ex would accuse me of the very things HE DID! I was even accused of doing things I never did, and some of it was very cruel indeed.

The way I see it, guys like your husband and mine are really into themselves. They are pretty content to live their life their way, and to heck with everyone else. It stems from childhood trauma, poor role models ... I dunno.

To this day, I still get brief zings of feeling, "Why didn't he fight for the marriage? Why did he choose the bottle over me?" But when I find myself going there, I look ahead to the future. Being chained to the past and all the pain wasn't moving me forward in life.

If hubs doesn't fight for his family, don't take it as a reflection on you. It speaks volumes about the kind of person he is. Oh, and one other thing ... it will drive you CRAZY trying to stand up for your point of view or to reason with him. I went that route for a long time, and finally realized I had no reason to defend my point of view or my behaviors to a jerk. There is no reasoning with some people.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

JuliaP said:


> Why would he do this? He does this often.


I think you got sick (subconsciously) looking for him to care for you. And it's a trigger to him so he runs. I'm with prodigal it's coming from his childhood. Look into his past and you will figure out why he does this.

My husband would avoid me because he felt like such a failure. His parents treated him like crap so if I got sick he'd avoid me because he felt powerless to make me better. To change that dynnamic I had to work to get him to stop running away no matter how much he wanted to. When I asked him for help he also felt controlled, manipulated, etc. To fix that I had to give him the space to WANT to come home.

My story is complicated but the solution was simple once I was able to see WHY he behaved the way that he did.

Now your husband may have his own reasons for avoiding you so don't assume it's the same as mine. Dig deep. You can't solve a problem you don't yet understand.

Oh and my first step was to stop meeting his needs just the same as what you are doing. You're on the right track.


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## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> What struck me about your post is your husband exhibits the very character traits of an alcoholic. No, I am not even speculating he is one, but I wonder if there was an addict in his family or someone important in his life who zoned out and left him to care for himself.
> 
> I lived with a turn-the-tables-and-always-blame-me husband. Did he fight for the marriage after I left? Nope. Went on a sixteen month bender. Yeah, you heard it right - SIXTEEN MONTHS.
> 
> ...


Same boat here as well. I never hide my feelings, I tell him I think he is choosing the bottle over me and he blows me off and says "you're nuts." I know for a fact he wouldn't fight for the marriage. I know he would hit the sauce hard (which he does already) and drown in rum. Detaching emotionally which I learned how to do by coming here to TAM, has been wonderful, for me. I no longer cry when he dismisses me, I don't get upset when he gets up and goes into the kitchen to start his nightly drinking while playing poker on the computer. He just leaves me sitting there, even if we are watching something together. I stopped begging him to spend time with me because he would get annoyed like I was asking him for a kidney.

When I go to sit with him when he wakes up, usually in the early evening because he drinks until the morning, he will make a crack that I am encroaching on his nap time. NAP TIME, can you believe it? Man, I used to get so hurt and I would go away from him and pout or write in my journal, or cry in private. NOT ANYMORE. 

Funny thing is, I don't think he even realizes I have detatched emotionally. I think he thinks I have given up the fight and just accepted that booze comes before me. I haven't accepted sh!t, I just handle it differently now. I handle it in a way that is good for me. 

But this can be hard work. Sometimes I slip and let one of those comments he makes or lack of attention get to me and I have work hard at repairing my wall. Is this a way to live? Nope. 

Our spouses are trying to make us eat sh!t sandwiches and actually enjoy it. Just make sure you don't take a bite.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

I'd feel pretty demoralized if my partner told me they weren't in love with me or sexually attracted to me. That's a pretty big blow. I'm not sure I'd want to fight either. 

Then again, I'm not your husband and there's a whole lot more going on than I can begin to approach.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Wow! Okay- the mexican standoff continues, with neither apologizing ( By now, normally I have). As I was sitting here on the couch reading- after a day of cleaning- He left with my daughter, and then came back and took my son as well. This is HUGE- He never goes out with the two kids alone, and I told him last week that he needed to start doing this. In 4 years he never has and it has been a point of argument for us. I was floored to see this.

Could he be changing already???


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> What struck me about your post is your husband exhibits the very character traits of an alcoholic. No, I am not even speculating he is one, but I wonder if there was an addict in his family or someone important in his life who zoned out and left him to care for himself.


No, he isn't, but I am a former addict, 8 years sober. Thrill seeking kaos, etc. 

His father totally walked out on him and zoned everybody out.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

SoWhat said:


> I'd feel pretty demoralized if my partner told me they weren't in love with me or sexually attracted to me. That's a pretty big blow. I'm not sure I'd want to fight either.
> 
> Then again, I'm not your husband and there's a whole lot more going on than I can begin to approach.


I know, but he hasn't taken any of my needs seriously, no mater how I beg, please, ask nicely etc. This would be the final blow to make him see the seriousness of the years of asking.

He has dismissed me, and what I say.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JuliaP said:


> No, he isn't, but I am a former addict, 8 years sober. Thrill seeking kaos, etc.
> 
> His father totally walked out on him and zoned everybody out.


I know you see the similarities. You husband is an ACoA ("Adult Child of an Alcoholic"). Children of addicts frequently marry addicts.

You work a program and you know the drill. I assume hubs isn't working a program. His right.

I do not know your husband's side of this issue. I am coming from the perspective as the spouse of an alchoholic. I dismissed a whole lot of stuff he was doing in order to survive.

However, if you are working a good program, then the issues he has are not on your side of the street ... and you know that.

I can tell you this: those of us who have survived with addicts during the bad years frequently have major adjustment problems once the addict gets clean/sober. We no longer know what to do with our victim mentality. We no longer know onto whom we should glom all our pent-up resentments.

I think you are down, but not out. You have come back from he!!, and addiction is just that. Your husband has his own issues. You have your's. If he doesn't want to fight for his family, then fine. You can't make him. All you can control are your thoughts and your mouth. Other than that, what he does is up to him.

Do you think he wants to fight, even a little bit, to save the marriage? Any chance of him getting into Al-Anon or IC? I don't know what else to tell you, because these are the only two routes I can see him going. 

When our parents abandon us, we tend to have less of ourselves invested in a relationship. It's sick, but it is the only way we know to survive . I'm thinking this is his way of "surviving."


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> When our parents abandon us, we tend to have less of ourselves invested in a relationship. It's sick, but it is the only way we know to survive . I'm thinking this is his way of "surviving."


That is so it. He has told me many times how he has a fear of loss and divorce and turning out like his dad.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Julia,
Sounds like maybe the "fight" has already started. In a good way. It is terrific that you have realized the importance of "not" initiating peace when your partner has treated you badly. 

Interesting thing is - his behavior reflects that he knows he was in the wrong. That is why he took the kids. It is an "act of service" apology. In some ways those are the best kind since it is all too easy to say "I'm sorry". It means much more when you actually do something to make amends. 

What do you think will happen if you simply acknowledge what he did by thanking him for taking the kids. 

I do think you should try to modify his behavior by using this new approach. I also think you need to do some soul searching. And the reason for that is the dynamic you describe often goes like this:
- H acts in selfish, combative ways for a long time. W is the one always trying to smooth things over even when H was clearly in the wrong. 
- W hits breaking point. Loses sexual desire. Loses desire to even remain married. In a VERY short time period the power dynamic reverses. 
- Now H (sadly) overcompensates. He goes from being a selfish jerk to being a scared little boy who is constantly seeking reassurance you won't leave him. 
- W has zero desire - jerky was a turn off - needy is even more so. She is much more blatant about her lack of desire - which freaks him out even more. 
- For a while W feels vindicated - finally HE is treating her well. But quickly she feels smothered and irritable. WHY can't he just be normal. Why can't he just leave her alone for a while sexually. Why can't he be "strong" but not selfish? 

I think you need to do what you are doing. I also believe at some point you may need to help him find that healthy middle ground. 





JuliaP said:


> Wow! Okay- the mexican standoff continues, with neither apologizing ( By now, normally I have). As I was sitting here on the couch reading- after a day of cleaning- He left with my daughter, and then came back and took my son as well. This is HUGE- He never goes out with the two kids alone, and I told him last week that he needed to start doing this. In 4 years he never has and it has been a point of argument for us. I was floored to see this.
> 
> Could he be changing already???


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## Knowing (May 13, 2012)

Julia P, I've read many of your posts and I am heartbroken by them.

If you are telling the truth here is my take. But first a little bit of back information. I've been involved in a few relationships in which the only reason they kept moving was because of complacency. In all truth, I had no love, desire, or any emotion left for the woman any longer. I eventually went on to despise everything about them. 

While I don't know 100% of the details of your marriage, to me it sounds like your husband has checked out long ago. As have you. 

My advice: Prepare for divorce. Because I know for a fact, there is a wonderful man out there who will give you everything your current "husband" is not. 

From what I've read, your husband does not even sound like a friend. 

We cannot choose who we fall in love with, and we cannot choose when we fall out of love with someone. But we can choose when we decide to end a non fulfilling emotionally taxing and draining relationship. 

The talk he says about having a fear of loss is him trying to manipulate you, and use mind games to control you and make you stay with him.


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## cory275 (Aug 11, 2011)

Julia... i am a big fan of "picking your battles"... you're picking a fight about dog treats. if you think you and your hubs have major problems then dont post about dog treats. 

in my head... kids suck... they need everything from their parents. why would anyone want to come home to neediness? i would have done the exact same thing.. take care of the baby that might actually appreciate it. 

plus.. if all you have is a check list for him when he gets home.. then why would he be rushing home to do that crap? 

i understand being sick sucks... but geez... march through it. expect more from your kids instead of your husband. if he works more than he's obvisouly working more. my hubs works at least double what i do.. and i understand that. but picking up slack at home isnt a reason for divorce. if you want equality then work more and hire a nanny.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

cory275 said:


> Julia... i am a big fan of "picking your battles"... you're picking a fight about dog treats. if you think you and your hubs have major problems then dont post about dog treats.
> 
> in my head... kids suck... they need everything from their parents. why would anyone want to come home to neediness? i would have done the exact same thing.. take care of the baby that might actually appreciate it.
> 
> ...


What? Their kids are 2 and 4. What exactly is she supposed to expect from them? They didn't ask to be born and they certainly didn't ask to be put second to a dog, which is what your post seems to be implying. Take care of a baby that will appreciate it? You would have pissed around buying dog treats for an hour while your sick spouse looked after two pre-schoolers? Nice priorities. Don't have kids.

OP, your husband sounds like a damaged, emotionally shut-down man. MEM has some great advice, as do lots of other posters here. I'm just going to wish you luck and really hope that these steps you are taking have good, lasting effect.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

cory275 said:


> Julia... i am a big fan of "picking your battles"... you're picking a fight about dog treats. if you think you and your hubs have major problems then dont post about dog treats.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Oh for goodness sakes..... this 'battle' isn't about the stupid dog treats.
> ...


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

waiwera said:


> cory275 said:
> 
> 
> > It's about the facts that she rang him sick and upset and begged him to come home straight away...and he chose to go shopping instead.
> ...


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Knowing said:


> Julia P, I've read many of your posts and I am heartbroken by them.
> 
> If you are telling the truth here is my take. But first a little bit of back information. I've been involved in a few relationships in which the only reason they kept moving was because of complacency. In all truth, I had no love, desire, or any emotion left for the woman any longer. I eventually went on to despise everything about them.
> 
> ...


I hope you are wrong- but I appreciate the input. He is very manipulative and he knows and admits it. I think- my husband is very damaged from childhood, and he was taught to put himself first as a protective measure. To keep a distance, because this is safer. For all I know, he might be out as well. Maybe in some way, I will be comforted to know that I am not the only one suffering through this- Because it does suck!


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Note: His apologetic behavior continues. Besides taking the kids yesterday, he then took me out to dinner, and took me to see a movie, my choice. At night at bed he crossed his leg over mine (usually I put mine over his first). The in the morning, he woke me up with an oral alarm ( I'll let you guess what that is!!). Wow! Talk about sorry!

Thanks so much to all who have taught me to scale back my complacency. I see that all my words-he never understood. But he does understand actions, and then he apologizes with actions.!


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You're doing well. Good job.


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

HOly crap- He actually said "I"m sorry about yesterday".

wow.


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## BoomHower (May 7, 2012)

By the way julie we are men that way, I'm kinda that way. it is normal for men to do so, but the only different is that my wife does not work. and i cant handle two kids at the same time alone.


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## BoomHower (May 7, 2012)

so no more cheating thoughts after what he did. we men are stupid and easy to control. 
we are easy going, but you have to know how to control a man. men love woman with strong personality.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I have a 2 year old and a 5 year old and have rarely taken them out by myself. Some men can do it. Some can't. 

I can't. Sounds like your husband is trying though.


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## Shiksa (Mar 2, 2012)

All men can take two kids out together (or more). Its hard and they don't LIKE to do that. When my kids were little, I went on a girlfriend retreat with college friends. It made my husband realize how hard taking care of kids are. When I came home he told me I was a goddess and how much work it was. Now, when I tell him I need help with the kids, he gets it, especially when I am sick like the OP.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

sinnister said:


> I have a 2 year old and a 5 year old and have rarely taken them out by myself. Some men can do it. Some can't.
> 
> I can't. Sounds like your husband is trying though.


Oh how ridiculous...what a cop out!
You CHOOSE not to.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Gee, I hate to break through all the 12-step speak, but if you are not in love with him or sexually attracted to him anymore, then...

What's the problem? Just leave.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I have a 2 year old and a 5 year old and have rarely taken them out by myself. Some men can do it. Some can't.
> 
> I can't. Sounds like your husband is trying though.


Some men can't? Why? Do their penises get in the way? 

Anyone can do it. You're just choosing not too because it's hard and things don't always go to plan. There's nothing magical about managing more than one kid, if you care then you practice and it gets easier.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JuliaP (Mar 21, 2011)

Lyris said:


> Some men can't? Why? Do their penises get in the way?
> 
> Anyone can do it. You're just choosing not too because it's hard and things don't always go to plan. There's nothing magical about managing more than one kid, if you care then you practice and it gets easier.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


yeah, seriously! Some men 'can't'. The gig is up fellas, yes you can.


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