# Moved out, now what?



## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

I just moved out of our house last week. I don't want to say it is over...I want it to work, but i've been trying SO HARD, for so long...I can't do it anymore. Has anyone been in this place? I feel sad/numb, yet like a weight is off my shoulder.

Some history: My husband and I have been together for 4 years, and married for 3. I was 21, he was 25 when we got married. I knew that we came from very different backgrounds. I knew that we would have to work out some serious issues, but I was naive enough to believe that our marriage would make it through.

Now looking back, I had the "rose-colored" glasses on. I still love him strongly now, but I don't see a reconciliation at this point. I do have two things that I have to have before moving back.

1. He has to quit drinking, I've been in therapy/al-anon and I truly believe he is either an alcoholic or is close enough that he's in danger.
2. We have to go through marriage counseling, and I will come home when the counselor says its a good idea.

I didn't yell, scream etc when I left. Just basically said, "I love you, but I need perspective. I feel like I've done everything I can do. I'm not happy, you're not happy. Nothing I've tried is working." 

Since then, he's only tried to contact me once. This was a few days ago, after I went home to get some things, I split the bills down the middle (I usually pay everything). He called me wanting to know if this meant I was moving out for good. I said, well "I've been gone for 1 week and you haven't even tried to call, text or contact me in any way?" He got pissed off and said "F*** you" before hanging up.

Sorry...i'm venting now...I'll quit. I just don't know what to expect from here on out. I really feel as though I've been the emotional strength/anchor and his support for the last 3 years...without receiving the same in return.

Is anyone else going through something similar?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

from what you've shared it certainly sounds like you're seeing things clearly and taking all the right steps to either motivate your husband to self-reflect on his problems or move along.

but you haven't really explained too much about your marital problems.

you suggest you and your husband have different life views but only suggest; you also mention your husband may be an addict at worse and a problem drinker at best.

understand his drinking is enough of a reason from my perspective to make the moves you've made and good for you for having the committment and confidence to initiate such change.

however, your response to your husband when he called to inquire about the permanency of your situation was understandable but not helpful.

after all, you initiated the move out of your marital home and from what you've said you didn't contact him.

as for your question.. is anybody going through something similar....welcome to talkaboutmarriage.

want a pet frog?:bounce:


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

thanks for the pet frog...

I was raised in a strong, religious family, and he was in a broken family and lived with his mother that was often an addict and neglectful until he was 9. I know that my family of origin gave me alot of unrealistic expectations for life in general, and he will always carry scars from his.

I haven't felt any emotional intimacy with my husband for a long time. We have our moments, but for the most part all intimate conversations are either after sex or after he's had few beers. I don't require alot...am not one of those "high maintenance" girls...and sometimes I wonder if I was too easy for him to snag...if I should have made him work harder to win me in the beginning?

I have no support either...it seems that everything I do is wrong in his eyes...he is quick to criticize, but slow to praise. I know i'm generalizing...its just how I feel, and I've told him this before. 

He has had some hard times, been unemployed, and struggled with anxiety and depression. Early on in our relationship though...I always felt that he was working past it. Over the last year, I become more aware of his drinking habits. He isn't drunk all the time/mean/hateful...it just started as 1-2 times a month...now we are down to 1-2 times a week of being drunk. I've talked to him about it, pointed out behaviors...beginning to see how much of a mother I have become to him.

I hate nagging/complaining and have tried so hard NOT to do this, but I get so frustrated by nothing changing...even when I tried to "praise, stroke his ego, let him rescue you" thing...it just seemed as though I became more and more of the anchor in the relationship.

This summer I learned that he doesn't feel as though we've had fun together since 3 yrs ago...granted we've only been married that long, and these issues were not at the surface then. Or that if he had to choose between his BF or me (as far as hanging out) he would choose his friend. This is directly from him mouth...and not during a fight.

Anyways...I don't doubt his fidelity and he has never been physically violent towards me...but sometimes I wish I had something so obvious to blame things on. I just love him so much, and am so scared of doing the wrong thing. We don't communicate...everything usually ends in him clamming up...or like the last conversation...barely got the phrase "you never call...etc" out of my mouth and he was telling me "**** you." 

I don't understand what I've done, said or become that he would not want to spend time with me, or be more than just physically intimate...but emotionally too.

Two months ago, for the first time I brought up maybe leaving him, and I asked for two things. He was genuinely scared that I would go. One was for him to go see a therapist about all these issues, and the other was the throw out the intimate pictures of his ex-girlfriends (not the portraits), but the ones of him holding/kissing them...he was seeing a therapist (I was happy until after about 4 wks, he brought it up and said he didn't think he had even told his therapist he was married), and I looked and found the pictures a month later in the same spot, untouched. When I brought them up later...no reaction...he let them sit there for two days and then took them who-knows-where.

On one hand, I hate myself for being such a pushover and allowing him to treat me like this. On the other I want things to work out so bad that I've been willing to do about anything, but the pictures was the last straw. I just needed to remove myself physically from that situation in order to gain some perspective. Not that 1 week later I have any. 

I know I was the one that left and that I should probably be the one that calls...and I WANT TOO so bad it kills...but I don't know, how far is too far?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

larniegrl said:


> Since then, he's only tried to contact me once. This was a few days ago, after I went home to get some things, I split the bills down the middle (I usually pay everything). He called me wanting to know if this meant I was moving out for good. I said, well "I've been gone for 1 week and you haven't even tried to call, text or contact me in any way?" He got pissed off and said "F*** you" before hanging up.


that is so sad. you are handling it a lot better then i would. good for you for leaving. he doesnt sound like someone youd want to be with. but you probably have a lot of healing to do from what you've gone through.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

I actually feel guilty that I am so relieved to be out of the situation, and then angry that he thinks so little of me not to pursue me. 

I never did anything to intentionally hurt him, but he has this vindictive streak that overrides how much he "loves" me. I want so bad to be in contact with him, but I feel as though if I reach out...it would be just me trying to do all the work again. 

Is this crazy? I haven't spoken to him since I left, except for that 20 sec. convo I talked about above. Should I be trying to contact him right now, getting us to talk about everything?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

i suspect any contact you initiate will be seen as some kind of weakness.

i know that sounds strange, but you're dealing with an emotionally immature, vindictive man.

you've set down your boundaries and expectations for a reconciliation.

he either meets your very healthy and reasonable expectations or he doesn't.

either way you might think about getting some counseling for yourself to figure out how you got where you are and make damned sure you don't end up there again.

and last, you'll probably start justifying calling your husband if he doesn't call you by telling yourself you need closure.

sometimes, actually very often, in life we need to find closure within ourselves.

it's a sad and unfortunate fact.

keep moving forward.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks for the advice...

I just needed someone to affirm what I've been feeling. I actually almost broke down and called him last night, but decided I needed to sleep on it first. Woke up feeling resolute again.

I am worth fighting for, our marriage is worth fighting for. One of the last things I told him along with "I love you, I'm not doing this to hurt you." was "I feel like I've done everything I know to do to make us work..." i.e...step up husband, if you really want this...you have to fight, because your wife is tired.

There is some great friends/family around me. I'm seeing a therapist and am going to Al-anon meetings. It is helping my issues, but it doesn't take away the hurt. I guess that will take alot of time...


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

larniegrl said:


> I just needed someone to affirm what I've been feeling. I actually almost broke down and called him last night, but decided I needed to sleep on it first. Woke up feeling resolute again.


that was probably really hard not to call him. but you are just facing the reality of what you've been living all these years. you've been living in neglect but didnt realize it because of physical proximity, and because you had the illusion that all your attempts to get him to change and respond were giving you scraps of the love you really want. 

alanon meetings are good. i used to go to those, too. it doesnt take away the hurt but i think it makes it bearable and gives you a little hope that you are on the right track for things to get better.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks for all the support...and advice. I'm moving on, but am now trying to protect myself financially, but still be fair...I was paying for 95% of the bills, even though he works part-time (I know...) I agreed to pay for half of the mortgage, but that is it...at least until we have a legal separation...so probably in the next few months if this continues down this road.

So now I am going through everything, changing passwords...getting a credit report, separating the joint bills (thankfully just the cell-phone, everything else is separate)...anything else I should be worried about?


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

yes. worry about you. take care of yourself. be good to yourself.

and be very proud of yourself!:smthumbup::smthumbup::

you're doing all of the right things and taking one step at a time.

based on personal experience the pain does linger for quite some time, unfortunately.

but i'm here to tell you it does lessen.

again, know you're an amazing person. keep strong.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

So...anyways, an update.

He's called me twice since our last conversation. Each time at 4am. I didn't answer, but called him back and left a message later in the day.

He called again last night at 1am. I thought it was an improvement (and I was up)...so I answered. He said he was just saying goodnight, but then called back again and asked me to come over. I told him no, but he was welcomed to come to my location. (probably a mistake)...come to find out he's lost the keys to his car...and he says, "I'm just not doing well right now." 

I told him that I couldn't help him. He would have to help himself, but that I loved him and wanted to be with him in the end.

I think it went ok...better than the last at least. I was a little taken aback at his "help me" statement. I really feel pretty disconnected from him at the moment.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

Larniegrl.. I think you handled it well until you said the L word and gave him a safe haven when he needs it. Not to upset you but he was starting to see what he was doing was wrong and you let him know that he can come running back when he chooses. My guess is you want more then what you had before..


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## recent_cloud (Apr 18, 2009)

yeah definitely not a good idea to invite him over, but i understand how easy that is to do.

if you don't mind me saying, if you feel it necessary to tell him you love him, you might want to suffix the statement with either 'but i'm not going back to the way things were', or 'but you must stop drinking for at least 6 months, attend aa, and see a marriage counselor. and then only if and when the marriage counselor tells me it's a good idea to go back will i consider it.'

keep strong.

you're doing great.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Thanks you guys...you are both right. Thank you for the reorientation to what I am trying to do here...I tend to forget after not talking to him for days and then suddenly hearing his voice. 

I need to keep setting my boundaries strong...inviting him over was a BAD idea (I knew it as soon as I said it). I would hope me being completely separated from him is enough to let him know behavior needs to change...but I need to voice this as well.

Another day...another time. I'm actually sleeping good now...thats a plus.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

UPDATE ALERT!! 

My husband and I reconciled last Sunday. He finally called and asked why I left, and how much he wanted/needed me back. He said he would quit drinking completely, and would go to marriage counseling with me. I was pretty harsh to him on the phone, and let him know exactly how I have been feeling and how things had to change...there were no other options for us at this moment. That our marriage was very unhealthy and I couldn't let it continue on this way.

So far so good. I am having a VERY hard time opening up to him and communicating, and I know that I have to get over this and start talking about stuff. I am just so tired of risking him rejecting me. We have our first counseling session next week, and I am hoping...hoping...praying...that things will work out for us.

I am not blind to the realization that he may drink again, and that everything will not be "perfectly perfect" from here on out...I am keeping my fingers crossed and trying one more time.

I finally said something today about us dating each other again, that I think it would be a good thing for us to start getting to know each other all over again...go on dates, experience, develop our friendship. He didn't really have much to say...I'm just going to try to keep talking and living my life and see what happens. I hope this is the right approach.


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## Loving Husband (Aug 3, 2009)

It's great you guys are giving it another shot. I hope you both learned something or old habits WILL return.. be careful not to stop the changes that need to be done..


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## MrsFarris (Dec 11, 2009)

I just wanting to say I think you are very brave and strong for the way you handled things. My relationship is struggling and my husband can be very abusive but it seems like the more he hurts me the more I feel like I need him (this is probably my self esteem going down the toilet than anything else) I feel like I put 100 percent into our relationship and if I can give my all and its not enough for him, why would it be enough for anyone else? I would love to feel like I could hold my head up and walk away, but I think I am so afraid that he wouldn't even miss me. If I did walk and he acted like your husband has I don't think I would be able to handle it. I feel like my life would end if things didn't work out and you are proof that if you are strong enough to leave and set a standard of treatment for yourself then you CAN make it through... and that is really encouraging.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Its strange, but I know where you are coming from.

Things have gotten better, but are far from good in our marriage. We have so many things to repair to work on, and I am unsure at this point that he is able/willing to do the work. Abuse is a terrible thing. Emotional neglect and verbal has done so much damage on me as an individual that sometimes I feel like a crazy woman. As if what I want, what I need is completely irrational. It isn't though. I want my husband to love me as unconditionally and completely as possible...and I want to feel as though my house is a safe-haven that I never have to fear about what he might say or not-say that will hurt me.

Of course, that is what I want...but realistically we can make our men do nothing. Know that you are not alone...that there are others of us who want more, but yet still hold onto the hope that our men will someday wake up.


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## alone in love (Nov 10, 2009)

Larniegirl and Mrs.Farris - I understand what you're going through. The thought of my husband leaves makes me feel desperate and I want to throw myself on him and not let him leave. All I ever wanted, too, was to be loved for who I AM. Not the person he wanted me to be, or thought I was. He never understood me, he was always suspicious. He said terrible things, but the worse it got, the more determined I was to make our marriage work. He told me last night that he found a place to live, and he doesn't have faith in me or our marriage at all. I told him that I know in my head that this is probably the best thing for us, but in my heart I love him and desperately want our marriage to work. I want to go back, I want to call him and beg him to stay. But if he does, will things get better? No. I wish you both luck with your situations - being alone can't be the worst thing in the world. I may be lonely and alone, but it's even harder to be lonely and married. I just hope the loneliness doesn't hurt me more than the emotional neglect and the silent treatment that I've suffered for the last year.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

No...the loneliness is bad, but living with an abusive/neglectful man is much worse. It will eat away at your core and you will become a shell of your former self. 

Separation was good for me...it set strong boundaries, and clarified what I want out of life. I've been able to tell my hubby these...and have specifically stated that he has to shape up or I am out. This has everything to do with the quality I want in my life...I am even willing to live alone, than with someone that doesn't love me for me.

aloneinlove...You deserve so much more than this kind of man. Keep your head up, don't settle for anything less than what you have given. Let him go...you will never be able to make him love you more, or treat you better. I hate this fact. Just take care of yourself.


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## sienna (Dec 8, 2009)

WOW!! I feel like I just read about the last 6 weeks of my life!
Im not sure if you have read any of my posts but I am in a very similar situation to you. All I know is that as soon as I started thinking about myself and what I wanted, and stopped letting him treat me in any way that he wanted, and was very ready to leave our marriage - he has started putting in allot more of an effort. He still has a long way to go but its a start.
The only advice I can give you is not to settle. Now that you are seeing a counsellor together make sure you make your points loud and clear and that he understands that you are prepared to walk away from the marriage if he doesnt compromise and listen to what you need. No marriage is perfect because no one is perfect. However you owe it to each other to listen or more to the point hear what each other are actually saying and make the effort to show each other that you heard.
Sounds like he has a long way to go before he will be able to make himself happy again and therefore for you to be happy married to him. However if you truely love him (which it sounds like you do), continue to support him through it but dont do it for him! 
He needs to start contributing as much as you and working as hard as you have been otherwise there is no point.
Good luck - keep us updated.


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## alone in love (Nov 10, 2009)

Larniegrl -
Thanks for the support. I am hoping that this separation will give me more independence and strength to decide what I will and will NOT live with. And I'm hoping he will see all the things I've taken care of for the last 15 years and appreciate what I did and what stress I was under. Seeing that a separation made you stronger gives me alot of hope. You are so right that I can't make him love me more -- I have to love myself more. I just wish our children weren't involved in all this drama.....


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Aloneinlove-I hope everything works out for you. I hope that you find the grace and strength to push through.

Update: It didn't last. I ended up moving out, permanently this time. He has decided that I want nothing more than to "move on with my life" and he believes that I think "these last four years were a mistake."

It really didn't take much to push me over the limit. I have tried so hard to get him to understand what I needed from this marriage. He finally emotionally abused me for the last time. 

It was regarding us going on a trip overseas...we were both getting excited, and I thought that maybe we were finally planning something together to experience when he said he would see if one of his best friends wanted to go with us too. It hurt my feelings...but I didn't tell him until he asked what was wrong later...I had opened up to him regarding how I felt regarding something he said that hurt me...made myself vulnerable...and he mocked/belittled how I felt. The more he mocked...the more I cried and emotional I got...he finally left. It was so mortifying. Not really because it happened...but because it was just a repeat of history. 

I have a feeling he will never understand, even though we have talked multiple times since...he doesn't get why that kind of behavior hurts so much. 

He states that he is making little changes and that it takes time, and then he acknowledges that he hasn't given 100%...but that 6 months isn't long enough to change. I totally understand gradual change, but he never quit drinking 100% and tried sobriety. He doesnt participate fully in marriage counseling (doing homework etc), and he continues to emotionally abuse me in pretty obvious ways. (belittling, "cold shoulder" etc.).

I am not saying that I am perfect. I was so angry at him this fall...I felt betrayed, and unloved, but I never said no to sex...tried to show him respect as a man. 

Here is an e-mail exchange we had that pretty much sums up the feelings at the moment...minus the "if you cannot see how much I love you...**** you" I got when I talk to him on the phone last night...and told him that I didnt feel loved by him right now.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

His e-mail:
I'm hope you understand why I don't want to talk to you on the phone. In return I will do the same and not call you anymore. I also have change the locks to the house so If you have left anything you will need to set up a time where I can let you in. You have made yourself clear on what you what and what your going to do, despite what I want for us. Nothing I say matters to you anymore. I'm sure God will forgive for your choices, but I never will. Hope your new life never disappoints you. 

My response:
1. I never said I was giving up on us.
2. I've made clear what I wanted, and it has never been the end of our marriage.

It isn't that you haven't shown me love before, done things for me, taken care of me. 

It is that I do not feel loved by you. This is not how I experience love. It hurts me that I can tell you repeatedly what, how and why I love you...but have never, never heard you tell me the same.

I feel loved by:
1. the words you say
2. the time we spend together as a "couple" doing things together
3. the conversations we have, and how you treat me during them

It hurts me that you do not place the same emphasis and importance on our friendship/intimacy that I do...that you do not care to learn how I experience love...that you do not give 100% to make sure our intimacy is steadily developed and never lost.

I want our marriage to grow, expand and be the amazing relationship that it can be...should be. I cannot do this alone. I need to know that you love me. I need to know that you will do whatever it takes to show me this, that you will try to keep us together by changing the way you treat me. 

The words you say when you are angry or critical...especially about me or what I do...have hurt me deeply, and were affecting the way I saw you. I cannot allow that to happen anymore, and I do not trust that you will not hurt me like that again. I have fought for this for too long. I feel alone, scared, and unloved. I need to know that you will do what it takes to win my trust back. 

I am not angry anymore, and I don't hate you. Anger and bitterness never fix or help anything. It will only destroy the love that I have for you.

You may never forgive me...you may hate me forever, but realize that this will only hurt you. 

I will always love you.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

I haven't gotten a response...honestly don't think I will.

Thanks for reading...


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## TempTime (Jan 31, 2010)

larniegirl -
replied to you on another thread about how similar our situations are. 
I am so sorry for your latest update... but I am so proud of you for standing up for yourself and for not letting this drag on and on like so many of us do. 
I know it must be a sad time for you, but I hope it is also a moment of clarity and that you can see a bright future for yourself. From reading your posts it is clear that you are an intelligent, caring, "together" woman. You deserve someone who will share your desire for a GREAT marriage AND do what it takes to make and keep a great marriage.
Stay strong! Cheering for you!
-temptime


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

temptime...thanks for the response. Marriage is HARD...but I've seen enough successful ones to know that a healthy, strong marriage is amazing. 

The e-mail struck some chord. He called me shortly after reading it and we had a long conversation regarding my hurt over the emotional neglect/abuse, his hurt over me separating...and he said that he doesn't want to lose me. 

Since then we've been together and talked a little about everyday life. I mentioned doing something small for V-day, and he said he would come up with something. He also thought I would just up and move back in...but I told him that I didn't trust that in two weeks he would decide he could go back to treating me the old way...and that I needed to see that he really was willing to treat me different and give 100% to our marriage. 

We will see...will keep my fingers crossed. We've already had sex since then, and I think that was good for him to know that I still am attracted to him in that way...and truly do still love him. I think I am heading the right way...vulnerability is hard...letting go of hurt is hard.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I hope you will stay apart for longer, so that you can get a better handle on yourself and your boundaries - away from the belittlement.

IIWY, I wouldn't even consider going back with him unless you've seen a real sea change in him, for a good year or two. That would require personal counseling on his part, maybe even specific counseling for his type of situation, as in something for anger management for a person who is physically abusive, the kind that opens their eyes (hopefully) to the damage they've done.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

2-3 yrs is a long time to be separated...but I do get your point about waiting until he has made REAL change. 

He is so impatient about me being gone from the house. It actually makes me a little on edge, and I've got the feeling if he doesn't catch himself...he will start using my absence as a "excuse" for being mad at me and saying that it is proof that I don't want this to work out.

I find it hard to even focus on the issues. There have been so many things that have hurt me, or I've brought up in the past...only to be shot down. I guess my trust for him is pretty shaky. I don't know how to convey this in a loving and understandable way. Except to just say it...the e-mail did touch him, and he has mentioned that it might be good communication tool for me in the future when it comes to talking to him about issues. 

Basically...counseling is a wonderful idea. It will have to come from him though...realizing that he needs to figure out were these feelings of anger/resentmet are coming from. He is such a private guy...it is hard for me to believe that he will go, but I guess that will be a good sign. For the moment...I am just watching/waiting.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Another update:

He surprised me, and took me out to eat for dinner last night to a romantic spot. It was fun, we just chilled and talked about little things. I ended up spending the night with him, and we continued to talk/discuss what was going on. Bottom line: he still thinks he is right about pretty much everything. 

The topic of us spending quality time (out of the house) together weekly was not a good idea to him. He "understood" it was something I needed in order to feel wanted/loved by him, but he wanted me to know that he likes being around lots of people and making memories with me and all his friends at the same time. (???) At least we are talking...i guess.

He was EXTREMELY shocked/hurt that I had seen a divorce attorney. I almost left at that point because he starting getting angry/defensive/blaming...I simply told him that my hurt was that deep, and he was not always right about what was good for our marriage and something had to change. He apologized at that point.

I thought it was encouraging. He still doesn't understand, but at least we are talking and able to have a positive experience together. There is still so much love between us, but definitely not alot of trust in me towards him truly changing his behavior. Time will tell...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It sounds more to me like he simply can't imagine the possibility that what anyone else thinks could possibly be right, since it isn't what HE thinks. Does that makes sense? My H does that. He is completely incapable of seeing that anyone else's viewpoint could be right. I bet your H literally thinks you are wrong, since you don't agree with him. 

It's hard to get past that, because I imagine nothing short of total meltdown will ever get him to honestly appraise himself, i.e., to learn true humility.

So...good luck, but be careful. At this point, anything he says to you to get you back is likely a lie. And even then, he thinks he has the RIGHT to lie to you, to get you back, because you're wrong and need to be 'educated.'

This is why I think it will be more like a year or two, to see any real change from him. He'd need to spend at least that much time in therapy or at least introspection, to get any real revelations.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

larniegrl~

I'm going to tell you something that I'm fairly sure you know. Maybe you haven't thought these words right out loud, but intuitively some part of you knows that this is true. Your hubby is an abuser. I realize it's a little shocking to hear at first but until he realizes that he is abusive, nothing will change. Now he may not "hit" you with physical abuse, but his words are verbally abusive, the way he hurts you emotionally abusive, and the way he messes with your mind mentally abusive. Some of the Signs of Verbal and Emotional Abuse can be found on Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse Website.

Now, don't give up hope because he's abusive. Thank God so far you have been very reasonable and set very healthy boundaries around yourself, and I would encourage you to continue to keep those boundaries! They are VERY SMART! Furthermore, on Dr. Irene's site, there is a whole section for The Abuser that talks about how they think and offers an abuser some help. There's even one page that is a Quick Guide to the Abuser's Treatment. 

I bring this up because unless and until he recognizes that he is an abuser, and he takes steps to treat his irrational thought pattern--he will continue to abuse. Now abusing has a certain pattern to it...a cycle that happens over and over (I call it a dance and since it happens over and over, those are the "dance steps"). There are basically three steps to it: The tension-building stage, the abuse stage, the remorse stage. In the tension-building stage, you walk around on egg-shells trying to do everything "right" so they don't have their excuse to scream at you. He might decide you have to do this or that to "show him you love him" and you do so you try to do it...and yet what he asks doesn't really sit with you right and you don't feel right. He controls more, you resist some and it leads right into the abuse. The abuse stage you recognize I'm sure, but it's when he blows, yells, calls names, and is exceedingly hurtful. After that stage, the abuser feels better but you probably pull away and that would be when you think of leaving. The remorse stage kicks in (I call it "hearts and flowers" because they abuser will even be romantic if they have to, and the abused person thinks, "Ah ha! There's the real him. I knew it was in there!") He'll do or say ANYTHING to keep you in his control and get you to come back to do the dance steps). 

Anyway, read up on Dr. Irene's website and see if that doesn't describe what is happening to a TEE...and see if there's not some help there for both of you. larniegrl, it is entirely possible, once you see this, that you will finally understand what has been happening to you and he will vehemently deny that's what the problem is. I just want you to know that the way you've handled it so far has been very mature and I think you have a good head on your shoulders...but trust ACTIONS not words. When you see his ACTIONS going to counseling and acting in a different way, that would be when to move back and not before. Otherwise it was all just a long "hearts and flowers" stage and it will start right back up.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Turnera...You describe him almost perfectly. It is an egocentric/narcossistic way of thinking, and it is impossible to have a "normal/healthy" relationship with that kind of man. They refuse to take advice or see life from anothers point of view. I may be asking for more than he can give.

Aftercare...He is definitely emotionally abusive/neglectful of me, and has been from the beginning of our relationship. It took alot of pain/tears/frustration for me to reach the point where I could admit that I was letting another person abuse me. He has been verbally abusive to me as well...name-calling, put-downs and such. I honestly believe he has no idea how to relate to me emotionally...it is almost like he is missing that chip. 

I am trying to be honest with him. Trying to call him out on issues when they come up and not "overload" the system with all my hurt...but two things are a big problem. 

1. I am still VERY hurt over present issues, the verbal/emotional abuse and the problem drinking.
2. I love him very much and still want to be with him.

How do I reconcile the two...I feel as though my heart is splitting.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You set up YOUR boundaries - what YOU can live with. And you start living that life. You let him know what they are, and what you will do if he oversteps those bounds. Then just continue. Fight the fights you have to. Show him what will happen - you leaving, etc. - and DO it! He will learn because he HAS to learn.

I have to warn you, though, that you can be smarter than him when it comes to emotional abuse. But if he decides to become physical, in oder to try to control you, you HAVE to stop all contact with him.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

> It is an egocentric/narcossistic way of thinking,


I was thinking this at the beginning of your thread, from the description of his behaviors, and just read through to make sure I didn't miss anything else; I'm glad you see this.

Also, Tunera said what I wanted to say and can only reinforce: remember, he will do/say anything to get you back, except that he won't admit truly that you are right and therefore he will only change to get you back and then he'll go back to his old ways, sooner or later. 

The rushing you is all in his favor; he does not want to have to be on good behavior for any longer than the absolute minimum it takes to get you back. He will try to turn that back on you and you must not buy it--you left, he does not get to give you a timeline of when YOU will feel it is right and safe to come back. Be aware that he may QUICKLY decide to find someone else when he realizes you won't play his game. That will be the ultimate sign that YOU are not important to him; having someone he can manipulate into taking care of his sexual needs IS. You are fearful of losing him, but if he moves on b/c he cannot see you as worth waiting for, then you know he is probably NOT capable of loving you, the real you. People like him just need a warm body and it honestly doesn't matter all that much to them who it is as long as that person provides the "basics" such as sex, maybe some $$, whatever. 

I know this is painful to hear, but I went through this with my ex and it was almost funny how quickly he found someone else right after he went through a huge "I can't live without you" crisis. It was never about me--he didn't value me for who I am. So I have been very easy to replace and yet he is still extremely angry I left him. Go figure: engaged to a new woman and still wasting so much emotional energy on the "old" one (me). 

Anyway, hang in there. If he surprises you and shows you that you are worth waiting for, great. If not, you haven't "lost" him b/c you never had him to begin with.


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## larniegrl (Oct 7, 2009)

Wow...its already been month? Crazy...and two months since I moved out. I have to admit that I am doing really well...except for missing the physical connection of a lover...I am at peace and happy for the first time in awhile. 

I've been working through the hurt/bitterness. Its amazing how much we, as people, will bury deep in order to cope. It comes in waves...I'll be good, then it will get bad...then I work through it, then good again. I've begun to face the things that I did wrong in my marriage...its been a little humbling...I can't point blame completely at him.

I find it is not in my nature to love partially..again that is the virginal love for you. I should probably just cut the losses and run...but I can't. Life is short, and the things that matter in life is not peace and tranquility. Don't believe someone who tells you that life is about finding happiness. Happiness is not for creatures that have a soul and rational mind. We fight every day to heal the hurts that we have caused ourselves and others...not to mention what has been done to us.

The best things in life are not those that come painless and guilt free. The best things are caused by tears, pain...evolution. It is the growth process, the thing that makes us better humans. I have to grow past this...even if my marriage is never repaired.

I have to evolve...forgive myself and him. Does this mean I go back...no way. I can't live the rest of my life with someone that doesn't know how to love...but I can heal. There is hope...it makes me so happy to know that there is hope.

Thank you all for your loving support and advice.


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## standardsfiend (Mar 7, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> larniegrl~
> 
> I'm going to tell you something that I'm fairly sure you know. Maybe you haven't thought these words right out loud, but intuitively some part of you knows that this is true. Your hubby is an abuser. I realize it's a little shocking to hear at first but until he realizes that he is abusive, nothing will change. Now he may not "hit" you with physical abuse, but his words are verbally abusive, the way he hurts you emotionally abusive, and the way he messes with your mind mentally abusive. Some of the Signs of Verbal and Emotional Abuse can be found on Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse Website.
> 
> Now, don't give up hope because he's abusive. Thank God so far you have been very reasonable and set very healthy boundaries around yourself, and I would encourage you to continue to keep those boundaries! They are VERY SMART! Furthermore, on Dr. Irene's site, there is a whole section for The Abuser that talks about how they think and offers an abuser some help. There's even one page that is a Quick Guide to the Abuser's Treatment.


Oh my god...I'm actually from another thread, and I think you just helped me identify my biggest issue. I never wanted to admit that I was actually being abusive. I will spend more time reading Dr. Irene's site, as it identifies me perfectly, and that means I can have some HOPE for real change in my self. Also, trying to go it on my own, with no help from outside has been impossible, as I just tried to force being nice, instead of getting at the root. Forcing anything just wears a person out, and it's not sustainable. I'm taking this info to the counselor I started seeing and will ask her to help me focus on this. 

Thank you thank you thank you!


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