# What is an Alpha male



## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

I'd like your definition, if you are one, if you're not, or if your a lady who knows how to spot one?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I don't like the term personally but it speeds some conversations.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

6 men and 6 women signed up for a singles meetup...

The ALPHA takes the lead for his 'lesser' men, puffing his chest out and impressing as women as possible with his, errr 'presense', surrounded by his admirers he wonders where the hottest one went... the BETA of the group starts getting all the drinks for the remaining 5 women. 

The DELTA of the group starts talking about work and bores the ladies, GAMMA of the group tries to impress with romantic gestures... it doesn't work, the OMEGA of the group doesn't say a word all night. In the end the ALPHA takes the pot with all five numbers of the ladies. The rest may have exchanged numbers, but are nonetheless friendzoned, except maybe DELTA if he's rich. The SIGMA and the hottest one is still no where in sight, what must have happened? 🤔

There you go, in a nutshell.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> 6 men and 6 women signed up for a singles meetup...
> 
> The ALPHA takes the lead for his 'lesser' men, puffing his chest out and impressing as women as possible with his, errr 'presense', surrounded by his admirers he wonders where the hottest one went... the BETA of the group starts getting all the drinks for the remaining 5 women.
> 
> ...


Not a bad breakdown.👍


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

You cannot really describe it, you either are or you aren't.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> 6 men and 6 women signed up for a singles meetup...
> 
> The ALPHA takes the lead for his 'lesser' men, puffing his chest out and impressing as women as possible with his, errr 'presense', surrounded by his admirers he wonders where the hottest one went... the BETA of the group starts getting all the drinks for the remaining 5 women.
> 
> ...


Kind of like when you're on a business trip and decide to go to the bar to eat and watch the game. When you step inside, there's a speed dating thing going on, which is highly amusing. After it's over, two of the girls come over to where you're sitting and start talking to you. When you ask if they met anyone decent from the speed dating, they say No and you ask "why"? and they say cause they're not you.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> Kind of like when you're on a business trip and decide to go to the bar to eat and watch the game. When you step inside, there's a speed dating thing going on, which is highly amusing. After it's over, two of the girls come over to where you're sitting and start talking to you. When you ask if they met anyone decent from the speed dating, they say No and you ask "why"? and they say cause they're not you.


Must different where ever I have travelled for work, I travel regularly but not frequently. what I noticed was that the bar would be 90% male mid week, full of single guys all reading a paperback. You could guarantee as soon as a single female walked into the bar it was like watching vultures eyeing wounded prey, their paperbacks forgotten. 

But extracting from what you have written, you believe it must be about appearance and bearing. As obviously the alpha in your sense hasn't uttered a word until approached


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> You cannot really describe it, you either are or you aren't.


So if you can't describe it, you can't identify it, so you can't use it in conversation?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

IMO an alpha male is a man that is confident, intelligent, and successful at whatever they do. 

The typical "alpha male" we see described on here sounds more like an asshole to me.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Jamieboy said:


> So if you can't describe it, you can't identify it, so you can't use it in conversation?


I don't know anyone who uses it in conversation. You can usually just tell what kind of person a man is if you get to know him. No labels are needed.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> IMO an alpha male is a man that is confident, intelligent, and successful at whatever they do.
> 
> The typical "alpha male" we see described on here sounds more like an asshole to me.


For some reason people here think alpha means asshole. But the men they are describing are just assholes.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

Part of the masculinity stereotype. Top of the power/influence hierarchy.

I don't subscribe to the concept of hierarchy.


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## mwise003 (1 mo ago)

Hard to describe as others have stated.
There are ALPHA traits and BETA traits. Just like everything in life, it requires balance. Most women want a mix of the two. How much ALPHA/BETA depends on each woman. 
To BETA and you're a spineless weenie who can't form his own opinion without his wife's approval. You could even be a ****.
To ALPHA and you are considered toxic in many ways, rightly so. You may get lots of notches on your bedpost, but real lasting relationships usually don't happen.

So depending on your initial reason for posting, it might be better to ask people what are good ALPHA traits and good BETA traits.

One example of what I think most women would consider good about each.
ALPHA - confident, but not cocky. 
BETA - empathy


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

mwise003 said:


> Hard to describe as others have stated.
> There are ALPHA traits and BETA traits. Just like everything in life, it requires balance. Most women want a mix of the two. How much ALPHA/BETA depends on each woman.
> To BETA and you're a spineless weenie who can't form his own opinion without his wife's approval. You could even be a ****.
> To ALPHA and you are considered toxic in many ways, rightly so. You may get lots of notches on your bedpost, but real lasting relationships usually don't happen.
> ...


I've read the term a lot in this forum, usually from guys who think they are one. And almost always followed by a little anecdote in the form of a not so humble brag proving their credentials. 

Quite often, I view this held up anecdote as proof they are in actual fact a pompous ass. The story usually has one 3 narratives.

1. All other guys give me respect
2. I get all the girls
3. I would not put up with that from my woman.

I asked the question partly because I'm interested, but also so I can see what all these guys, myself included maybe do differently to make them not alpha. 

Ps I really like your answer


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't put much credence in the labels, which I understand are alpha, beta, gamma, delta, omega, and sigma. However, if a label is needed, I'd say I'm closest to sigma.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> IMO an alpha male is a man that is confident, intelligent, and successful at whatever they do.
> 
> The typical "alpha male" we see described on here sounds more like an asshole to me.


I really like this description, but is intelligence necessary? Would confident and competent not be a better description? 

Certain skills don't require high intelligence to attain competence is my reasoning


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

mwise003 said:


> Hard to describe as others have stated.
> There are ALPHA traits and BETA traits. Just like everything in life, it requires balance. Most women want a mix of the two. How much ALPHA/BETA depends on each woman.
> To BETA and you're a spineless weenie who can't form his own opinion without his wife's approval. You could even be a ****.
> To ALPHA and you are considered toxic in many ways, rightly so. You may get lots of notches on your bedpost, but real lasting relationships usually don't happen.
> ...


Well this was pretty helpful!👍


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## DamianDamian (Aug 14, 2019)

Commonly its a term used by clueless douchebags that have no respect, no love and no manners, and see the world through a lens of physicality and dominance.
An older 'alpha' male is generally divorced or some annoying overly aggressive or abusive man. 

I almost always switch off if I hear 'alpha male' used in a conversation unless we're talking about apes or wolves.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I think it's just a convenient term used for ease of conversation a lot of the time.

That's what it became for me.

The first time it was used on me was here at TAM I believe, and I was kind of surprised because I wasn't overly familiar with the term and I didn't really associate it with myself.

In high school I certainly wasn't an alpha. I was a serious pain in their asses though.

I got invited to prom and after-party by an upperclassman who was fairly popular.

I also never came close to losing a fight but I was hardly some community leader.

I had very long hair and a bad reputation which was only partially earned.😉


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I think it's just a convenient term used for ease of conversation a lot of the time.
> 
> That's what it became for me.
> 
> ...


You're my hero!!!


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

Numb26 said:


> You cannot really describe it, you either are or you aren't.


If you can identify the alpha, you're not the alpha. 
If you can't identify the alpha, it's because you're him.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Jamieboy said:


> I'd like your definition, if you are one, if you're not, or if your a lady who knows how to spot one?


I haven’t heard a woman say someone was an alpha except in the boxing gym with professional fighters, “Oh you guys are just a bunch of alphas.”

I did hear something funny at work. Some younger folks I worked with were talking at lunch and one of the women says to a guy, “You’re such a beta.” I almost choked on my lean protein and greens lunch.

As for definition, Oxford nails it:

al·pha male

_noun_

the dominant male animal in a particular group.
"two of them trotted over to greet the alpha male, a black wolf with a graying muzzle"
a man tending to assume a dominant or domineering role in social or professional situations.
"two alpha males constantly competing to be the best"


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Alpha is less about how women react to a guy and more about how other men react to that guy..

It's a deference and respect that isn't communicated in words, in body type, but rather in a general aura. 

To give an example related to a recent thread, a true Alpha won't have to worry about strange guys hitting on his woman in his presence because it would never happen.


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## Works (Apr 3, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> Alpha is less about how women react to a guy and more about how other men react to that guy..
> 
> It's a deference and respect that isn't communicated in words, in body type, but rather in a general aura.
> 
> To give an example related to a recent thread, a true Alpha won't have to worry about strange guys hitting on his woman in his presence because it would never happen.


🏆🏆🏆


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Honestly I always think of a pack of wolves, led by an Alpha female who is mated to an Alpha male. No other members are permitted to mate. The Alpha male runs off any males who attempt to depose him. 

In primates, there is an Alpha male who mates all of the females and attacks any other male in his troop who he catches mating with a female. Of course, the females will mate with other males on the sly whenever the old man is occupied mating or eating or sleeping.

In both cases, the Alpha has to be on top of his game 100% of the time. And always ready to fight for leadership. When he ages, he is inevitably deposed by a younger more capable male. The males that are NOT alpha take whatever females they can steal a poke with while the boss isn't looking.

Seems pretty much the same situation in human society. To the victor go the spoils.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rus47 said:


> Honestly I always think of a pack of wolves, led by an Alpha female who is mated to an Alpha male. No other members are permitted to mate. The Alpha male runs off any males who attempt to depose him.
> 
> In primates, there is an Alpha male who mates all of the females and attacks any other male in his troop who he catches mating with a female. Of course, the females will mate with other males on the sly whenever the old man is occupied mating or eating or sleeping.
> 
> ...


Hahahahahaha the fking monkeys are hilarious  

I mean the primates of course!


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

hamadryad said:


> Alpha is less about how women react to a guy and more about how other men react to that guy..
> 
> It's a deference and respect that isn't communicated in words, in body type, but rather in a general aura.
> 
> To give an example related to a recent thread, a true Alpha won't have to worry about strange guys hitting on his woman in his presence because it would never happen.


Women use the social clues of which males are dominant and which ones are submissive to the other males and use that as a measure of attractiveness.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I was recently told by a female that I’m not a “nice guy”. I took it as a compliment. Something’s finally working.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Jamieboy said:


> I'd like your definition, if you are one, if you're not, or if your a lady who knows how to spot one?


The definition is going to change from person to person, especially with what women perceive as "strong" in a man. Some women think intelligence is attractive and a strength, and some think physical strength or good looks are...and still others think accomplishments are a sign of "alpha" strength.

There isn't one single definition for everyone.

And it seems to matter alot more to men than it does to women. But then I believe that's because men crave respect the way women crave attention. So men are constantly thinking of how they can earn that respect. It's not silly or pathetic for men to want that, it's natural. Just like I won't let anyone tell me I am silly or weak because I want to look pretty...Lol!!


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UAArchangel said:


> Women use the social clues of which males are dominant and which ones are submissive to the other males and use that as a measure of attractiveness.


Meh....not ALL women care about or even notice that.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Meh....not ALL women care about or even notice that.


I'm just saying it's a measure that women do use. It does not mean that the Alpha male is the most attractive male to all females. There is a balance in how much work you would have to do and how much work you are willing to do to have him, not to mention having to fend off other females in order to keep him. The attractive person isn't the overall best deal for everybody.

Do I, as a male, really want to stay home to keep other males away?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

UAArchangel said:


> I'm just saying it's a measure that women do use. It does not mean that the Alpha male is the most attractive male to all females. There is a balance in how much work you would have to do and how much work you are willing to do to have him, not to mention having to fend off other females in order to keep him. The attractive person isn't the overall best deal for everybody.


Wrong again....at least for ME.

You are being too logical and intellectual about it. I use my feelings more for relationships. And my feelings don't have the same standards or values as your logic does. But I'm sure it works that way for some women.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

There is now a NEW type of male in town... the *FULL RELEASE MALE!!!*












https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FULL%20RELEASE%20MALE



Hahahaha


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

LisaDiane said:


> Wrong again....at least for ME.
> 
> You are being too logical and intellectual about it. I use my feelings more for relationships. And my feelings don't have the same standards or values as your logic does. But I'm sure it works that way for some women.


I agree that it isn't so simple. We are speaking in generalizations and generalizations are just quick takes on the world without having to write dissertations on a subject. 
A quick categorization.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Usually used as a term for a badass male who attracts women without trying. His superiority and pure confidence allows him to achieve success. He does not WANT, because he is the WANTED. May also be used to describe a "manly" achievement or situation.

"That guy is so Alpha.." - "How does he get all those *****ez?"

"That was an Alpha move, nice work lion cub."

"I was so Alpha last night, she yanked my wang..."

Urban Dictionary nails it again.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

And if you need help with Beta here you go:

A beta is a male who, instead of being alpha and manning up, completely *****es out. Can apply to many situations, but often refers to scenarios with women.
Guy 1: Bro, hook me up with that girl's friend
Guy 2: **** that. I'm going to double up with both of them. Stop being such a beta.

------
Traits of provision: either providing resources or validation to others, women (and perhaps men). Beta traits display low value to women if they are are put on too strong or too early in meeting- giving without equity. Beta can be used to describe individual behaviors, as well as people who have an overwhelming amount of beta properties (opposed to alpha).
"Billy is a real man for marrying Stacy and being step-father to her kids. He is a kind, dependable, comforting, wealthy, faithful, intelligent feminist ally, and a great father/husband who breaks his back working 60 hour weeks to financially support his family. So why did Stacy dead-bedroom him for years while cheating on him with Chad, then divorce him and take all of his assets?"

"Because he is socially awkward, has a small ****, looks like Danny DeVito, and was a virgin when they got married. The thought of giving him any more opportunities to pass on his inferior genes subconsciously repulses her, and she loathes him for making her feel that way. Now he is stuck having to pay alimony and child support for the rest of his life. He is hopelessly beta."

-Urban Dictionary.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

It has nothing to do with anyone or anything else. It's a man who keeps his word and puts honor and character above all else. It's also independent of outcome, though if you do this the outcome will generally be good.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

*ALPHA* = Those who are able to CREATE and/or LEAD in social situations and/or work environments by virtue of their inspirational personality, planning, and skills.

You cannot have your way in every social situation or work environment in life (unrealistic). But you can learn from your experiences and develop new skills to create your own work environment wherein others might follow you or an influential personality to draw others towards you (become a leader yourself).

*BETA* = Those who can provide but are followers in social situations and/or work environments in large part.

----

I was a *BETA* in my younger days and women hardly paid attention to me. Even though I got a job, I found _Intrinsic motivation_ to improve my situation by developing new skills and create new opportunities myself. I found another much better paying job as I moved forward but I decided to enroll in a PhD degree program and develop my own platforms. I began to radiate confidence and beautiful women began to notice me. Some were willing to take matters further but I had found a wonderful woman to spend my life with. My struggles are not over yet but I am getting closer to my goals. My transformation was profound in many ways and I eventually understood what being *ALPHA* is all about.

Some men will be content with a job and being a provider in life. Others will think that they can do better than this.

*ALPHA* = mindset and it shows in your actions and way of life. Others can see it in you and your struggles in life. It works to draw them towards you.

----

The less highlighted type is:

*RATIONAL* = Those who are better aware of their respective strengths and weaknesses; decide to LEAD in social situations which they can control (being *ALPHA*), and FOLLOW in social situations where their skills are not up to the task (being *BETA*). This is realistic in my view.



LisaDiane said:


> The definition is going to change from person to person, especially with what women perceive as "strong" in a man. Some women think intelligence is attractive and a strength, and some think physical strength or good looks are...and still others think accomplishments are a sign of "alpha" strength.
> 
> There isn't one single definition for everyone.
> 
> And it seems to matter alot more to men than it does to women. But then I believe that's because men crave respect the way women crave attention. So men are constantly thinking of how they can earn that respect. It's not silly or pathetic for men to want that, it's natural. Just like I won't let anyone tell me I am silly or weak because I want to look pretty...Lol!!


Spot on.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> The definition is going to change from person to person, especially with what women perceive as "strong" in a man. Some women think intelligence is attractive and a strength, and some think physical strength or good looks are...and still others think accomplishments are a sign of "alpha" strength.
> 
> There isn't one single definition for everyone.
> 
> And it seems to matter alot more to men than it does to women. But then I believe that's because men crave respect the way women crave attention. So men are constantly thinking of how they can earn that respect. It's not silly or pathetic for men to want that, it's natural. Just like I won't let anyone tell me I am silly or weak because I want to look pretty...Lol!!


If you believe Dr. Professor Jordan Peterson he suggests that women these days have intelligence as the primary selector, which makes sense as this offers their progeny the best chance of success in today’s world.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LeGenDary_Man said:


> *ALPHA* = Those who are able to CREATE and/or LEAD in] social situations and/or work environments by virtue of their inspirational personality, planning, and skills.
> 
> You cannot have your way in every social situation or work environment in life (unrealistic). But you can learn from your experiences and develop new skills to create your own work environment wherein others might follow you or an influential personality to draw others towards you (become a leader yourself).
> 
> ...


You can't "create" Alpha, which is what you are implying. It doesn't work that way. You are or you aren't. 

My opinion, anyway.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

It's a meaningless term at this point. Every woman calls her husband that in public and many guys think they qualify as one. Even the ones who behave like women. 

It was meant to refer to pack dynamics and most men aren't part of packs anymore. I don't know about you guys but I don't eat, sleep and hunt with a group of men. The only person I go to the grocery store with is my wife.

As far as everyday interaction go, pretty much every guy plays a variety of roles when they come across other men now, depending on circumstances. So there are no set in stone Alpha, Betas, Deltas or whatever.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Jamieboy said:


> I'd like your definition, if you are one, if you're not, or if your a lady who knows how to spot one?


Having been a leader in my business and profession I think I understand. I really don't like the term Alpha male as it implies to me a "Bull Moose" concept. You know the male that bullies the other males to exert dominance and for the prize of having sex with all the ladies he controls.

Having been a Nice Guy and worked hard at becoming an integrated man, I also feel that an integrated man is not a Bull Moose. As a hunter, the real alpha bull moose gets shot pretty early in the season because of all the attention he draws to himself.

For me a real man's man is someone who is not codependent on his wife, who has a good work and life balance, who is proud of his accomplishments, who praises others and gives them credit, who mentor's others, who can build a life long relationship with one spouse, who provides his children with love and support, who is committed to a lifetime of learning, who like to share wisdom with others, who is happy with what he has, who views his life as a glass half full, who is not envious of what others have, who isn't trying to impress anyone. and is just plan happy.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> You can't "create" Alpha, which is what you are implying. It doesn't work that way. You are or you aren't.
> 
> My opinion, anyway.


Some assume this to be the case because some of the boys can be bold, confident, and/or smart in their teens. These characteristics will come together to realize the capacity of being an alpha in social situations by drawing people to oneself. This is the situation on the one hand.

But people have the capacity to learn, grow and change over time as well. This is the situation on the other hand. Some will learn from their life experiences, refuse to play second fiddle to others for long, and grow by setting goals to achieve in life. This realization can come at a later stage in life (natural?).

An Alpha does not buy and subscribe to dictionary tropes of describing humans in life - he believes in himself and strives to be a leader and will find a way to become one or an influential figure at some point in time.

A large number of men have the capacity to be Alpha to be honest. But it is not beneficial to be addicted to the thrill of being an Alpha all the time. I have been in situations where I could lead and did fine in them. But there are situations in which I follow the lead of another to my benefit. I am fine with consulting people including my wife for how to plan something and move forward with it.

I do not sell myself as an Alpha in Public situations. It does not work like this. But I will find a way to lead when I can.

I am dropping hints to the benefit of all men here. Point is to believe in yourself.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I really don't like the term "alpha" applied to humans, because it comes from the study of mammals that have completely different social organisation from us. 

I'd prefer terms like "assertive" and "authentic".


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> If you believe Dr. Professor Jordan Peterson he suggests that women these days have intelligence as the primary selector, which makes sense as this offers their progeny the best chance of success in today’s world.


Depends... I think what stage of life they are in is important and their relative baggage.

Intelligence doesn't get her hormones racing (like the typical deep voice, square chin, muscular) but it helps when she is choosing who to rear her progeny... aka provisioning. 

But then again getting knocked up by an alpha is different than family planning with a beta.


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## Firecat (5 d ago)

Laurentium said:


> I really don't like the term "alpha" applied to humans, because it comes from the study of mammals that have completely different social organisation from us.
> 
> I'd prefer terms like "assertive" and "authentic".


This is completely false. It comes from Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, where the Alphas were bred to be the top group of people. Huxley wrote his classic dystopian novel in the 1930s, long before anyone was misapplying the terms to wolves or primates.

Anyway, the definition is simple.

Beta = approval-seeking, looking to others for validation

Alpha = not approval-seeking, self-directed, not concerned with what others think

and it properly doesn't apply to a person, but rather a specific behavior. There aren't alpha or beta people, only alpha or beta actions.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> You can't "create" Alpha, which is what you are implying. It doesn't work that way. You are or you aren't.


Honestly, this is exactly how I see it. We are all a product of our genetics, environment, and upbringing. And by the time we reach puberty the die is pretty much cast. So anyone trying to be someone they aren't at their core is just someone my kids called a "poser". A man whose genetics produced a 6' 5" tower of strength filled with testosterone is just going to physically dominate the 5'6" scrawny guys. The latter can never be the former no matter what they do. 

And there is somewhere a woman for every man, regardless of stature. A lock for every key. My wife-to-be traveled half a world from her birthplace for us to meet in a small-town high school. She was attracted to an average guy (me), not the jocks (Alphas?) who were attracted to her. The rest is a long happy history

We all just have to make do as best we can with the gifts we were blessed with. And I also believe we all have at least one gift that we can use to make our way in the world. We just need to find it.


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## UAArchangel (2 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> If you believe Dr. Professor Jordan Peterson he suggests that women these days have intelligence as the primary selector, which makes sense as this offers their progeny the best chance of success in today’s world.


Since trades are downplayed in the culture, intelligence may be a shorthand way of saying 'earning potential' because a guy has a college diploma.


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## Firecat (5 d ago)

Rus47 said:


> Honestly, this is exactly how I see it. We are all a product of our genetics, environment, and upbringing. And by the time we reach puberty the die is pretty much cast. So anyone trying to be someone they aren't at their core is just someone my kids called a "poser". A man whose genetics produced a 6' 5" tower of strength filled with testosterone is just going to physically dominate the 5'6" scrawny guys. The latter can never be the former no matter what they do.


Definitely not. Alpha behavior is developed and learned over time. It's got nothing to do with your height. It's simply learning a skill.

This is why a lot of guys find that girls are way more into them in their 30s - they've stopped caring so much what people think and learned to be less needy and approval-seeking.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Firecat said:


> It comes from Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, where the Alphas were bred to be the top group of people.


Interesting! Many thanks for that. 

Of course, if it came from Brave New World, the meaning is still pretty different from the current slang usage. 

Do you think the usage for mammals came from BNW? Or a separate coinage?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

UAArchangel said:


> Since trades are downplayed in the culture, intelligence may be a shorthand way of saying 'earning potential' because a guy has a college diploma.


I think that’s exactly it. He also noted that humor was a trait that showed intelligence so it was also high up on the list for women.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Jamieboy said:


> I really like this description, but is intelligence necessary? Would confident and competent not be a better description?
> 
> Certain skills don't require high intelligence to attain competence is my reasoning


I agree with you. In my mind I think intelligence could be interpreted in many ways. It actually might be better to combine it with competence. Maybe you don't have "book smarts", but you are the best mechanic in the shop, highly skilled carpenter or construction foreman, etc.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

DamianDamian said:


> Commonly its a term used by clueless douchebags that have no respect, no love and no manners, and see the world through a lens of physicality and dominance.
> An older 'alpha' male is generally divorced or some annoying overly aggressive or abusive man.
> 
> I almost always switch off if I hear 'alpha male' used in a conversation unless we're talking about apes or wolves.


Odds are, if you go around calling yourself and thinking of yourself as the "alpha male" you are a douche. I think being a little humble can go hand in hand with a true "alpha" person.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Firecat said:


> This is completely false. It comes from Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, where the Alphas were bred to be the top group of people. Huxley wrote his classic dystopian novel in the 1930s, long before anyone was misapplying the terms to wolves or primates.
> 
> Anyway, the definition is simple.
> 
> ...


I think that was the first time the term Alpha was used in pop culture, but Huxley didn't invent the term. It was used in science prior. 

_Monika Sumra, an anthropologist diving into the history of the term 'Alpha Male,' found that the term was first used academically in 1921. During research on chicken hierarchies or pecking order, researchers labeled the top chicken with the first letter in the Greek Alphabet "Alpha." _


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Firecat said:


> Definitely not. Alpha behavior is developed and learned over time. It's got nothing to do with your height. It's simply learning a skill.
> 
> This is why a lot of guys find that girls are way more into them in their 30s - they've stopped caring so much what people think and learned to be less needy and approval-seeking.


Alpha behavior can be learned. It doesn't make you an alpha, but to the untrained eye if you learn the cues and how to handle oneself you can get quite a few notches. And thats what people think about when they buy into the Alpha Male dynamics. How to get lots of women.

But as the old drill sergeant said, you can only fake the funk for so long. If you end up in a relationship you will revert back to your beta ways.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Laurentium said:


> Interesting! Many thanks for that.
> 
> Of course, if it came from Brave New World, the meaning is still pretty different from the current slang usage.
> 
> Do you think the usage for mammals came from BNW? Or a separate coinage?





https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_beta_male#History



Use with humans seems to be recent (1990s).

I failed trying to find quickly when biologists started using it, would be interesting if they took from Huxley.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_and_beta_male#History
> 
> 
> 
> ...


See my post above. It was used in the 20's by academics, Huxley's book is from the 30's


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Odds are, if you go around calling yourself and thinking of yourself as the "alpha male" you are a douche. I think being a little humble can go hand in hand with a true "alpha" person.



The loudest guy in the room is usually the weakest...


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> You cannot really describe it, you either are or you aren't.


Exactly. It's like Fight Club. You don't talk about Fight Club.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Laurentium said:


> I really don't like the term "alpha" applied to humans, because it comes from the study of mammals that have completely different social organisation from us.
> 
> I'd prefer terms like "assertive" and "authentic".


I think you can add charisma as a big one too.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Jamieboy said:


> So if you can't describe it, you can't identify it, so you can't use it in conversation?


I think people use it for lack of a better description. The term comes from the animal world and in that context usually refers to a physical dominance within a pack or group. I think in the human realm it is really just a leader of men. They guy in the group who others tend to defer to because they respect his competency, confidence, and other personality traits. When you see a group of men you can usually tell who that person is. Another way to say it is a guy who just goes about his business and life and the way he does it leads to others giving him more respect than others. 

Really the concept doesn't translate into human behavior. Humans are more complex than animals. In one situation a man could be a leader based on his competency in that situation and then in another situation he may be more reserved and take a follower role because others in the group have more competency in that situation. So it's more a guy who has the ability to lead in situations where he has strong competency or is willing to take a leading role even if he lack competency because there is no one else in the group capable of leading. To be a leader you have to have characteristics about you that make you a person others will follow, so having those characteristics Is what makes some "Alphas" and others not. 

Thats the best I can do in trying to explain my opinion of something that doesn't really work for describing humans. 

One thing I have noticed is guys who regularly refer to themselves as alphas are rarely alphas, often their kind of d-heads who act poorly and then tell people they are just too alpha thats why they come across as A-holes.


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## Rooster Cogburn (10 mo ago)

The American Alpha prioritizes and lives through a social order based on:

-God
-Family
-Country
-Anti-Communism

Everything in-between is peripheral stuff that is subjective to each and every male.

You are welcome.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)




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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

How to Be a Respectable Alpha Male (With Real-Life Examples)


Want to know the ingredients that make an alpha male? Let’s take a look at celebrities and movie stars to see what makes them alpha!



www.scienceofpeople.com





Give it a read and see what parts you can relate to. Cheers.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

gaius said:


> It's a meaningless term at this point. Every woman calls her husband that in public and many guys think they qualify as one. Even the ones who behave like women.
> 
> It was meant to refer to pack dynamics and most men aren't part of packs anymore. I don't know about you guys but I don't eat, sleep and hunt with a group of men. The only person I go to the grocery store with is my wife.
> 
> As far as everyday interaction go, pretty much every guy plays a variety of roles when they come across other men now, depending on circumstances. So there are no set in stone Alpha, Betas, Deltas or whatever.


Aye, but it is very popular (and funny!)

I reckon men just need their role models. Besides strip down the narratives and expose the core message and it just comes down to "don't be a wuss, grow a backbone, be a man", culture will try to attach or grow a few branches here and there, but ultimately that's all it is.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> Aye, but it is very popular (and funny!)
> 
> I reckon men just need their role models. Besides strip down the narratives and expose the core message and it just comes down to "don't be a wuss, grow a backbone, be a man", culture will try to attach or grow a few branches here and there, but ultimately that's all it is.


Honestly, I never even heard the term until I stumbled upon TAM. Then I was like, it sounds like they are literally describing ALL of my friends, and most of the men in my family. Still don't see the big deal...


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

karole said:


> View attachment 95574


Why is get married in there? You can't be a man unless you punch a lotto ticket for possible financial disaster? More like "if you get married, if you have a family".


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## Firecat (5 d ago)

I don't think it's a meaningless term at all. I think all of us have healthy (alpha) behaviors at times, and unhealthy approval-seeking (beta) behaviors at times. The goal is to increase the former and reduce the latter for more success in life.

A lot of times you'll see guys who are super dominant professionally, leaders in their social groups, yet still seek the approval of women they're dating. 

They tend to have more traditional/provider views and they may come off as alpha, but they exhibit tons of beta behaviors in relationships. 

They go monogamous because she wants to, make her cum first in sex every time because they put her first, have trouble leading sexually and in their relationships, are ok getting sexually rejected, and so forth, and it causes problems and loss of attraction in their relationships.


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## so_sweet (10 mo ago)

I haven't read all the posts, but here's an example, although I don't know how great it is...

A man I dated called 911 when he accidentally cut his finger. It wasn't as small as a papercut but not a huge gash or anything like that, but he was panicking and said the pain was unbearable. When the ambulance came, the paramedics literally rolled their eyes, gave him a band-aid, told him it was not an emergency and he didn't need to call 911.

My husband's arm could be hanging by a thread and he'd say he's just fine.


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## heather42 (2 mo ago)

karole said:


> View attachment 95574


Love Ben Shapiro!


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