# Don't know what she's uo to



## Jeffk

My wife works a straight evening shift, she gets home about midnight on the days she works. She stays up to 1-2 in the morning because she says she can't go to bed right after she gets home because she is still wound up from her shift. This part I can understand, I have worked evenings before and it was hard for me to go right to bed to when I got home. My wife and I share the same Kindle Fire to do our Internet surfing. My wife was still in bed the next morning so I decided to get on the Kindle and do a little surfimg. Something told me to check the history so I did and guess what. Im really not a computer guy, but I saw that my wife had been on Facebook and I saw a name in the history that I didn't know and that she was trying to confirm hie phone number. I don't know this guy, have never even heard of him. So, I got on Facebook to check him out. He lives In a State that is a long way from where we live. i know they couldn't be having 
affair because it is so far away. So, the next morning I causally mentioned that I saw something this guy posted on my time line. I mentioned the guys name and her exchanges mentioned immediately. mentioned this guy's name to her and her expression changed immediately. After this, I said " I've never 
heard of him, do you know him ?" She immediately got very defensive and said "No, I said I didn't know him !" So, I dropped the subject. So, I get up this morning and my wife is on the couch asleep. She woke up for a minute and I said "I'm sorry, did I wake you ?" She said "no, I didn't sleep good last night so I came in here." I said "Ok, I'm sorry if I woke you." She went back to sleep. Anyway, I know this is a long post and I apologize. So this morning I decided to get on the Kindle again and surfed a little, then decided to surf a little while. Then, I went to history again and saw that she had been on FB a few times, no big deal, then I scrolled further down and noticed this guys name and the fact that she was trying to confirm his phone number had been deleted. She has a very private FB page, her settings are where no one but friends can see and post anything to it, so I begin wondering why she attempted to confirm this guys phone number and why she deleted it. It could be something totally innocent, I know that, they could have been chatting, I know that too. But why did she get so uneasy when I mentioned the guys name and why did delete his name from the history ? I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not spy on my wife in any way. I respect her privacy. But, this has honestly got me thinking what she's up too if anything. Could the reason be that she did get defensive because she was afraid to tell me that she was chatting with this guy and didn't know how I would react ? I just don't know. Does anyone have any ideas ?


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## Jeffk

I know there are a lot of grammatical errors on this post and it's kind of hard to read, but I'm new to this and I couldnt use the review this post very well. My apologies.


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## ButtPunch

Her looking some guy up on the internet isn't too alarming but lying about it and going back and deleting history is a red flag. How is the state of your marriage? What does your gut tell you? 

Does your wife guard her cell phone and password protect it? 

Does she close her internet browser when you walk into the room?

You have come to the right place for help....hopefully it's nothing.


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## Q tip

Well, for one, based on the red flags (innocence presumed in this case but Hmmmm.....) --

I'd recommend looking up the user Weightlifter. His sig has evidence gathering information and instructions. Read them carefully and follow them. 

Also, communication is important. Ask her how she knows this guy. There are predators out there who do not have wedding vows with you or her. They pride themselves in making women a notch in their bed posts. Nothing more. If something's up, she'll likely push this further underground. So be careful how you talk. Her denial and delete is a problem.

Does she have an iPhone? Check your detailed phone bills. Save them. 

I'd also get the book, married man sex life primer 2011 by Athol Kay. Good book for all men, married or single. Do this now. Today. Read weightlifters sig today.

If it's nothing, fine. You've gained an education. Trust but verify. This may be a sign to up your game, date your wife, add spice. Have fun and excitement. Don't settle in to a boring marriage.


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## Q tip

Jeffk said:


> My wife works a straight evening shift, she gets home about midnight on the days she works. She stays up to 1-2 in the morning because she says she can't go to bed right after she gets home because she is still wound up from her shift. This part I can understand, I have worked evenings before and it was hard for me to go right to bed to when I got home. My wife and I share the same Kindle Fire to do our Internet surfing. My wife was still in bed the next morning so I decided to get on the Kindle and do a little surfimg. Something told me to check the history so I did and guess what. Im really not a computer guy, but I saw that my wife had been on Facebook and I saw a name in the history that I didn't know and that she was trying to confirm hie phone number. I don't know this guy, have never even heard of him. So, I got on Facebook to check him out. He lives In a State that is a long way from where we live. i know they couldn't be having
> affair because it is so far away. So, the next morning I causally mentioned that I saw something this guy posted on my time line. I mentioned the guys name and her exchanges mentioned immediately. mentioned this guy's name to her and her expression changed immediately. After this, I said " I've never
> heard of him, do you know him ?" She immediately got very defensive and said "No, I said I didn't know him !" So, I dropped the subject. So, I get up this morning and my wife is on the couch asleep. She woke up for a minute and I said "I'm sorry, did I wake you ?" She said "no, I didn't sleep good last night so I came in here." I said "Ok, I'm sorry if I woke you." She went back to sleep. Anyway, I know this is a long post and I apologize. So this morning I decided to get on the Kindle again and surfed a little, then decided to surf a little while. Then, I went to history again and saw that she had been on FB a few times, no big deal, then I scrolled further down and noticed this guys name and the fact that she was trying to confirm his phone number had been deleted. She has a very private FB page, her settings are where no one but friends can see and post anything to it, so I begin wondering why she attempted to confirm this guys phone number and why she deleted it. It could be something totally innocent, I know that, they could have been chatting, I know that too. But why did she get so uneasy when I mentioned the guys name and why did delete his name from the history ? I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not spy on my wife in any way. I respect her privacy. But, this has honestly got me thinking what she's up too if anything. Could the reason be that she did get defensive because she was afraid to tell me that she was chatting with this guy and didn't know how I would react ? I just don't know. Does anyone have any ideas ?


Paragraphs help....


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## Q tip

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## Hardtohandle

First off you need some paragraphs in that post.. 

But something is up and the sad part is your know she is lying and you're just rug sweeping it, trying to pretend like its no big deal.

I live in NYC and the man my now Ex wife left me for came from the state of Louisiana. If it helps you any. 

I've been with my wife for 20 years and it took her all of probably 2 or 3 encounters ( I think it was only 2 ) and 90 days of talking for her to make up her mind on a 20 year relationship with 2 kids of 13 and 8 years old..

Today the boys are with me and she pays me child support.. 

So I would suggest you put your sh!t into high gear if you want to save your marriage.. Or bury your head in the sand and hope she leaves without taking the kids, assuming you have any.


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## Jeffk

Quickbutt, I have noticed that she will change her page really quick if I walk over to her while she is on the Kindle and act kind of nervous. 

She leaves her phone out, doesn't hide it from me, but she is very protective. One other thing I have noticed is that she will get a notice on her phone and immediately pick up the Kindle and log in.

I don't know this for sure, but I think she deletes her Internet history off her phone, the things she doesn't want me to see anyway. 

I will say this, the Kindle is always by her side unless I want to use it.


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## Q tip

Thoughts... Options to consider in no particular order:

Take her phone and kindle away. Talk. If she refuses, Tell her the road of shame she's taking only has an exit to divorce. 

The guy she's gonna cheat with will cheat her too. There are STDs that can't be cured. 

Get a lawyer and have her served. Get separate bank accounts to protect your cash & investments. 

If you find more, convincing evidence, expose to friends and family. That shame will help break her emotional link with the guy. Cheaterville.com is leverage too. You can cancel the D at any time. Adds pressure on her. 

If it's an affair EA/PA, she needs to show remorse, not guilt. True remorse. Remember, cheaters lie. Her Actions not words matter...


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## tom67

Q tip said:


> Thoughts... Options to consider in no particular order:
> 
> Take her phone and kindle away. Talk. If she refuses, Tell her the road of shame she's taking only has an exit to divorce.
> 
> The guy she's gonna cheat with will cheat her too. There are STDs that can't be cured.
> 
> Get a lawyer and have her served. Get separate bank accounts to protect your cash & investments.
> 
> If you find more, convincing evidence, expose to friends and family. That shame will help break her emotional link with the guy. Cheaterville.com is leverage too. You can cancel the D at any time. Adds pressure on her.
> 
> If it's an affair EA/PA, she needs to show remorse, not guilt. True remorse. Remember, cheaters lie. Her Actions not words matter...


:iagree:
There are no secrets in a marriage.
Ask her if you were secretly chatting up a female if she would put up with that.
Expose to close family and ask for support DO NOT TELL HER JUST DO IT.
Then go from there.
there have to be consequences.


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## tom67

Oh get some voice activated recorders and stick one in her car and check the phone records.
And who is Quickbutt?


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## Jeffk

I'm sorry, I called you by the wrong tag ButtPunch. Yes, I know for a fact she was lying to me Hardtohandle, because I saw the evidence. She swore she did not know the guy.

My gut tells me there is something is up. I say this because we went to San Antonio for our sons graduation ceremony from the Air Force. 
She would tell me "Im going out for a smoke and would ALWAYS take her phone with her. 

I would wait a few minutes, then go outside to smoke with her and she would immediately change the page so I couldn't see what she was doing. Or, she would turn the phone away from me so I couldn't see what she was doing. 

Another thing she did while we were in San Antonio was to creep into the bed room to make sure I was asleep. I wasn't. She crept back out of the room. I waited a few minutes and got up to get a drink of water. She immediately closed the cover on the Kindle when I walked into the room.


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## tom67

Jeffk said:


> I'm sorry, I called you by the wrong tag ButtPunch. Yes, I know for a fact she was lying to me Hardtohandle, because I saw the evidence. She swore she did not know the guy.
> 
> My gut tells me there is something is up. I say this because we went to San Antonio for our sons graduation ceremony from the Air Force.
> She would tell me "Im going out for a smoke and would ALWAYS take her phone with her.
> 
> I would wait a few minutes, then go outside to smoke with her and she would immediately change the page so I couldn't see what she was doing. Or, she would turn the phone away from me so I couldn't see what she was doing.
> 
> Another thing she did while we were in San Antonio was to creep into the bed room to make sure I was asleep. I wasn't. She crept back out of the room. I waited a few minutes and got up to get a drink of water. She immediately closed the cover on the Kindle when I walked into the room.


Jeff you can't control her but you can control what you will or will not put up with.


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## Jeffk

Tom67, I'm sorry but I mis spelled someone's name. I apologize. It was supposed to be ButtPunch.


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## Cubby

Starting now, don't bring up the subject of this facebook guy with your wife. If something's going on, she'll hide evidence better. 

She seems guilty and secretive. Go online and retrieve her cell phone records and look at the calls and texts. If there are many long conversations or texts to one number that you don't recognize, that's a bad sign. 

Don't feel guilty about investigating, it's your marriage that's at stake. Doing nothing and allowing a budding relationship to develop is far worse than looking at phone records and facebook postings.


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## Q tip

:lol:


Jeffk said:


> Tom67, I'm sorry but I mis spelled someone's name. I apologize. It was supposed to be ButtPunch.


:lol: Ol' quickbutt got buttpunched on that one...


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## Janky

If you dont take action now, you are going to regret it.

This is a red flag, it has stirred your suspicions, dont ignore this.

I dont believe theres anything innocent about her getting a number from a guy neither of you know and her denying it.


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## Jeffk

Well, all the suspicions started when we were in San Antonio. That's when I started noticing the odd behavior, Tom67. That's when my gut started telling me something was up. 

I went for a haircut yesterday and she went with me. Of course, she was on her phone while I was getting it cut. This was the day I asked her if she knew the guy. While I was getting my haircut, the barber and I were chatting about behaviors, I said "I can't stand being lied to by someone, when you KNOW theyre lying.

When I said this, she immediately looked up from her phone and looked at me and started looking at her phone again.


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## Jeffk

Lol, I know QTip. I am sorry for doing that ! But it is funny.


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## Chaparral

Your wife blatantly lied to your face. Her privacy just got blown ou of the water.

Time to start detective mode what do you know about this guy? Did he ever live in your area?

Has your sex life changed at a I the last year or so?


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## ReidWright

do you have a home pc? or other laptop? put a keylogger on it, then block the kindle fire MAC address on the wifi router for a few nights. 

Tell her you're trying to troubleshoot it and she'll need to use the pc tonight.

research this guy on radaris, see if there is any connect or if he lived where she used to live (old boyfriend). 

does she have a password on her phone? get an undelete program for it, pronto.

Does she play any online games?

either she knew him before, or met him online.


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## Jeffk

We have had the talk about me chatting with another woman and she has gotten very angry about the subject. We live in s town where there are lots of old girlfriends, and girls that I hung out with.

One in particular that she does not like at all. I have no desire to start anything with this woman. She is married. I don't mess with another guy's woman. Never have. 

I thought we had a good, healthy, marriage. But obviously one of us isn't, and it's not me.


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## NoChoice

Jeff,
Privacy between a married couple serves what purpose exactly? What would you keep secret from your wife? Secrecy in a marriage is like rust on steel. It only weakens the steel and can eventually destroy it. I would be most concerned if there is not total honesty (openess).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jeffk

Chaparral, yes our sex life has changed, and not in a good way. She either says she is too tired, or not in the mood.


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## Jeffk

NoChoice, she told me one day that she had joined a group on Facebook and that she didn't want me to join it because " I need a page where I can post what I want to and have privacy." Luckily, I know the password to her FB account and check her activity log from time to time, just to make sure she hasn't posted anything bad. 

By the way, she has her activity page set up so only she can see it. She said it was for "security purposes."


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## ButtPunch

Jeff

I've heard enough. She's cheating. Time to put your big boy pants on. Your marriage is now at 50-50 chance for survival. You need to gather evidence (Keylogger, phone records etc.) so you will not be gaslighted at the confrontation. Your walls need to go up, do not let her see any emotional weakness from you from this point on. You need to be a rock. 

Someone post the 180. The 180 needs to be your new bible. You need to detach from this woman and see if she will fight to save your marriage.


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## Chaparral

She's in a full blown emotional, online affair. Probably sexting too. The only question is if they have met up. 

The reason she's holding back on sex is she is being faithful to the other man.


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## Confused In Florida

Hate to say it, but she's cheating on you bro. Maybe not physically yet, but my guess if given the opportunity she will be all over it. Get into gear and listen the advice people are posting on here if you want to have a chance of saving your marriage. If it isnt physical yet, you may have a chance to save it, but you better get into action NOW.


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## Lostinthought61

Jeffk, 

so tell us what kind of phone she has and what kindle of kindle (i'm guessing Fire).

Also have you asked her if there is something she needs to tell you ?

and not say another word and just stare at her, she may lie but read her body language.


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## Jeffk

Xenote, yes she has a Kindle Fire and a Windows 8 phone.


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## Jeffk

Also, I have asked about her having an affair and her reply was "when do I have time ?" She got very defensive. I'm not sure if it should take her until 12:00 AM to get home, her shift ends at 10:30 and we don't live that far from her job. It definetly bothers me that she stays up to 2-3 o'clock in the morning when she gets home.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

I wonder if there are key logger apps out there for kindle?

I'd say that she's having a deep EA, at best. Trying to find his phone number makes me think that she's looking to take the EA further.

Don't ask her ANYTHING else about this guy. And no more comments about trust, ot lying, etc.. You make have already tipped your hand, but she seems like she's not trying to hid the EA anymore than she did before you asked about this guy.


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## Jeffk

Chaparral, I have suspected that she is in an emotional affair for a while. I can't prove it though.


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## Jeffk

My plan today is to wait until she takes a bath or shower and check the history on the Kindle. Chances are though, she will delete what she's done.


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## ButtPunch

GroundPounder is right. Don't tip your hand anymore. She'll just get more secretive. 

You are at a crossroads. You need to take action. 

Action#1....I've seen enough. Go see a lawyer and put divorce papers in front of her. Do not tell her you are going to do this....just do it. Implement the 180 and go dark on her. This could snap her out of the "Affair Fog"

or

If you just can't do #1 here's #2....Get concrete evidence and find out who the AP is? He may be married. You tell his wife and expose this affair to your friends and family. This will help kill the affair. It is also important to implement the 180 during this time. Any neediness on your part will push her further away.

So what is that you want?


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## G.J.

Chaparral said:


> She's in a full blown emotional, online affair. Probably sexting too. The only question is if they have met up.
> 
> The reason she's holding back on sex is she is being faithful to the other man.


Really hope your wrong but from seeing posts on here you guys are nearly always right

Jeffk chin up and follow what these guys tell you


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## wmn1

JeffK,

I will number my points

1) I applaud you for coming here for help
2) While I agree with much of what Hard to Handle said and based on his experience, I disagree that you are rugsweeping. You caught on to things quicker than most people who get screwed over do
3) There's one thing in talking to people in a small town and it's another to begin an emotional attachment to someone else. If your wife had issues with your talking to these other women (what and how you were talking to them only you or you two know) she should have objected. Sounds retalitory here.
4) Don't rule out long term relationships. A friend of mine in Pittsburgh just got dumped by his wife of 10 years for a good friend of his who lives in Texas. It can happen and it doesn't take much on a frail marriage.

I would buy heavily into the 'retreat' than investigate mode, get VARs and keyloggers and copy details before you go on the offense. Regarding separating finances, it may be quick and destructive to do that now although I would ahve a gameplan to do that if you start finding things you don't like.

Your wife's actions are really disrespectful and you should not toelrate them but, even though I think something is up, having the evidence before accusations can help your case tremendously.

BTW, I love your statement about not going after someone else's women. That shows you have true class and I wish there were more like you


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## IIJokerII

Jeff, you need to stop for your own sake. "Stopping what?" you may ask? We are already on page 2 of your thread and you have your answers already with more than enough firepower to aide you in your affair killing assault. But the longer you employ inaction the more damage this will do and you will be the one who is at a loss and under the control of others. 

I know your confusion level is thru the roof, your agitated by this and your wife does little to nothing to sooth your discomfort, you are scared and that is ok. But you cannot nice her out of this, you need to be assertive and able and willing to administer consequences. The person, the wife, you knew is gone, and for now she is the enemy. You must accept this. 

Are you prepared to take action? The time is now!!!!


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## Jeffk

She works in a Nursing Home. One of the things I have seriously considered that she might have met someone there who has come in to see a family member.


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## D.H Mosquito

Everything you have posted mirrors my wife in her EA then briefly into PA, especially the hour and a half home each night when close to work, sounds like the guy is also close by not the long distance one and the main red flag the "privacy" time for the chat and the outcome she ends it and shows all or help her select which luggage to pack her ex life into


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## ButtPunch

Mr Useless said:


> Everything you have posted mirrors my wife in her EA then briefly into PA, especially the hour and a half home each night when close to work, sounds like the guy is also close by not the long distance one and the main red flag the "privacy" time for the chat and the outcome she ends it and shows all or help her select which luggage to pack her ex life into


It mirrors my story as well. I remember waking while she thought I was sleeping going into the room and her immediately putting her phone under her a$$ and sitting on it. Like no one would think that is odd behavior. I was clueless for a while but not forever. I found TAM.


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## Jeffk

One more post then I'm done. My investigation WILL continue, I promise. I just checked the history on both her cell phone and her Kindle. Cell phone history, a link on how to video chat on Skype. On her Kindle, LOTS of post and log in's on Facebook.


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## D.H Mosquito

Read them copy and save them and confront her no point in letting it drag on get it out into the open and have closure one way or the other


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## ButtPunch

The 180
April 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Ami (Login Amistandingstill)
Healing Moderator 



So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


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## Blossom Leigh

Skype is a bad sign. 

That was my MAJOR red flag since the OW's name was the ONLY name in my H's Skype account. 

That possibly means video sexting.

That typically means a progression past flirting, sexting, and nude pic exchanges to live feed video of it.


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> Chaparral, yes our sex life has changed, and not in a good way. She either says she is too tired, or not in the mood.


Women typically give their allegiance to only one man at a time, whereas men can go get as much as they want. So your wife stopping sex is a HUGE sign that she's emotionally cheating with this guy. She's already into the 'love' stage with him, so she can't cheat on him by having sex with you.

Install a keylogger on her kindle; it will email you all her keystrokes. You'll have your proof.


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> One more post then I'm done. My investigation WILL continue, I promise.


Huh? Why are you leaving here?


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## Jeffk

True, the thing with the Skype inquiry worries me a lot. One thing I have learned about her since we have been married is that she is VERY sneaky. 

Also, she left to go to town a few minutes ago and I asked if she wanted me to go with her and she said "you don't have to if you don't want too." 

One of the posts someone asked me earlier was about how I talked and acted around women that I know but she doesnt, it is strictly a "hi, how are you ?" then I move on. No flirting, no extra conversations. I even make it a point to tell her who it was after I talk to the woman.


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## justastatistic

You need a keylogger on that kindle asap, and VAR's in her car and in the house wherever you think she might be chatting.


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## Yeswecan

I concur with all others posting. Your W is up to no good. As far as taking a long time to get home after work, this is a red flag. Other than a 7-11 there is no shopping going on. FB, Skype and secretive activity that on these is a sure indicator of troubles ahead.


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## Blossom Leigh

She just left town? Where is she going?


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## Chaparral

Sounds like she has someone local by the hours she's keeping.


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## MachoMcCoy

Blossom Leigh said:


> She just left town? Where is she going?


She left to go to town.


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## badmemory

A couple of thoughts.

You should put a keylogger on her computer and spyware on her phone.

VAR in her car could catch conversations to and from work.

Do you have access to her e-mail? Check to see if any Facebook messages to her were copied to it. That used to be a default setting on Facebook. Not sure if it still is.

If you have access to her Facebook, you can download her FB messaging history. If you use her computer make sure you delete the downloaded files after you've copied them, the download history, the e-mail notification and the browser history.


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> True, the thing with the Skype inquiry worries me a lot. One thing I have learned about her since we have been married is that she is VERY sneaky.
> 
> Also, she left to go to town a few minutes ago and I asked if she wanted me to go with her and she said "you don't have to if you don't want too."


Why didn't you go?!

And stop asking. Just DO it. Women want strong men, and you're being weak.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

MachoMcCoy said:


> She left to go to town.


:rofl: oh! sorry I misread... that is a "small town" thing calling it "going to town" I had forgotten that. I grew up in a big city and when I moved to a small town during my high school years and the first time I heard someone say "I'm going to town" I had NO idea what they meant. Just cracks me up.


----------



## badmemory

jeffk,

You describe too many red flags for any reasonable person to believe she's not cheating. You have to assume she is.

Be smarter than she is. Make yourself an expert on stealth technology and you will catch her. Use the resources here to help. Don't confront her again until you get your smoking gun. 

Then, you can decide what you want to do.


----------



## G.J.

badmemory said:


> jeffk,
> 
> You describe too many red flags for any reasonable person to believe she's not cheating. You have to assume she is.
> 
> Be smarter than she is. Make yourself an expert on stealth technology and you will catch her. Use the resources here to help. Don't confront her again until you get your smoking gun.
> 
> Then, you can decide what you want to do.


Yep it seems if you don't get the proof before confrontation they will admit nothing....it sucks as the initial response is to face it A.S.A.P. and get it sorted BUT its the worst thing in these cases


----------



## tom67

badmemory said:


> jeffk,
> 
> You describe too many red flags for any reasonable person to believe she's not cheating. You have to assume she is.
> 
> Be smarter than she is. Make yourself an expert on stealth technology and you will catch her. Use the resources here to help. Don't confront her again until you get your smoking gun.
> 
> Then, you can decide what you want to do.


Get info on this fb guy and find out if he's married maybe a PI in his town you give him the name and his number that should be somewhat cheap.
Then you inform his gf/w.


----------



## PBear

*Re: Re: Don't know what she's uo to*



tom67 said:


> Get info on this fb guy and find out if he's married maybe a PI in his town you give him the name and his number that should be somewhat cheap.
> Then you inform his gf/w.


Inform them of what? That the OP's wife is cyberstalking her husband/bf? 

C


----------



## shellgames

A few posts back, "no time for an affair", ha, heard that one myself.


----------



## turnera

Every minute she spends on that Kindle and not with you is an affair.


----------



## tom67

PBear said:


> Inform them of what? That the OP's wife is cyberstalking her husband/bf?
> 
> C


Isn't that usually a good way to end it and expose.


----------



## PBear

*Re: Re: Don't know what she's uo to*



tom67 said:


> Isn't that usually a good way to end it and expose.


Expose what? He knows SFA. If he wants to spend money on a PI, he should be invest it on his wife's activities, not some guy she looked up a few times on FB. Start at the source, and go from there. THEN expose. 

C


----------



## tom67

PBear said:


> Expose what? He knows SFA. If he wants to spend money on a PI, he should be invest it on his wife's activities, not some guy she looked up a few times on FB. Start at the source, and go from there. THEN expose.
> 
> C


I agree start with vars make sure nothing local is going on but it sounds long distance.
And it's a lot cheaper.


----------



## Jeffk

Someone a few posts back said that women like strong men and I'm being weak. I consider myself to be a strong man, just going through a weak moment. 

Just the other day, I told her "you spend a lot of time on Facebook and your Kindle, you need to put it down, turn it off and actually have a conversation with me. Youre being rude and disrespectful."


----------



## Chaparral

Jeffk said:


> Someone a few posts back said that women like strong men and I'm being weak. I consider myself to be a strong man, just going through a weak moment.
> 
> Just the other day, I told her "you spend a lot of time on Facebook and your Kindle, you need to put it down, turn it off and actually have a conversation with me. Youre being rude and disrespectful."


I'll bet she thought that was the understatement of the year.


----------



## Jeffk

I have come to a decision. It's over. Tonight at dinner, there was very little to no conversation. I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and she has broken the trust I use to have. Neither will ever be repaired. I'm done. 

I am going to contact my attorney tomorrow. Hopefully he will be in his office since this is a Holiday week. I have a plan, I have made a decision. I will not change my mind. 

I want to thank everyone for your insight and advice. It is greatly appreciate it.


----------



## farsidejunky

Keep posting. Your troubles will not end when you file. There are plenty of people who have been through this process, and can assist you along the way.


----------



## turnera

Jeffk said:


> Someone a few posts back said that women like strong men and I'm being weak. I consider myself to be a strong man, just going through a weak moment.
> 
> Just the other day, I told her "you spend a lot of time on Facebook and your Kindle, you need to put it down, turn it off and actually have a conversation with me. You're being rude and disrespectful."


Huh? That's not strong. That's weak and passive aggressive.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy.

A strong man would say NOTHING, gently take the Kindle out of her hand while staring in her eyes, pull her off the couch, pick her up, carry her to the bedroom, and make passionate love to her. 

That's what she's dreaming of the OM to do. That's what you should have been doing all along.


----------



## turnera

Jeffk said:


> I have come to a decision. It's over. Tonight at dinner, there was very little to no conversation. I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and she has broken the trust I use to have. Neither will ever be repaired. I'm done.
> 
> I am going to contact my attorney tomorrow. Hopefully he will be in his office since this is a Holiday week. I have a plan, I have made a decision. I will not change my mind.
> 
> I want to thank everyone for your insight and advice. It is greatly appreciate it.


Another weak man's move. You're so scared of her you can't even face her - this WOMAN - and say "I know you're cheating on me and I want you to stop." And THEN have a conversation about what's going on and THEN tell her you're going to divorce her if she won't stop.


----------



## weightlifter

Scratch head: 

Huh?

Just do the top link in my sig. One car where she talks in the house and one under her car seat. This one will take a week tops if you do it right.


----------



## Jeffk

Ok, Turnera. I'm confused here. The majority of the people on here have told me to get rid of her, no questions asked. I may be reading it wrong, but that's the way I see it. I have confronted her about an affair AND told her the marriage would be over if she continued it. As far as picking her up and taking her to the bed room, I have tried that as well, only to be turned down. I am not going to force her to have sex with me if she refuses too. I have had excuse, after excuse after excuse about not wanting have sex. I not afraid to admit that I have started wondering if there is something wrong with me is the reason she doesn't want to have sex. So, call me weak all you want. 

I havent shared everything that's been going on with her on this thread. If I did, this thread would be 200 hundred pages, not just 5. So, again, call, me weak all you want. You do not know the whole story.

I


----------



## Blossom Leigh

I'm so confused.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Jeffk said:


> Someone a few posts back said that women like strong men and I'm being weak. I consider myself to be a strong man, just going through a weak moment.
> 
> Just the other day, I told her "you spend a lot of time on Facebook and your Kindle, you need to put it down, turn it off and actually have a conversation with me. Youre being rude and disrespectful."


I don't call this weak. Its direct and to the point and calls a spade a spade, so it is also not passive aggressive.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Jeffk said:


> I have come to a decision. It's over. Tonight at dinner, there was very little to no conversation. I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and she has broken the trust I use to have. Neither will ever be repaired. I'm done.
> 
> I am going to contact my attorney tomorrow. Hopefully he will be in his office since this is a Holiday week. I have a plan, I have made a decision. I will not change my mind.
> 
> I want to thank everyone for your insight and advice. It is greatly appreciate it.



There must be a lot behind this story not known here.


----------



## G.J.

Jeffk said:


> Ok, Turnera. I'm confused here. The majority of the people on here have told me to get rid of her, no questions asked. I may be reading it wrong, but that's the way I see it. I have confronted her about an affair AND told her the marriage would be over if she continued it. As far as picking her up and taking her to the bed room, I have tried that as well, only to be turned down. I am not going to force her to have sex with me if she refuses too. I have had excuse, after excuse after excuse about not wanting have sex. I not afraid to admit that I have started wondering if there is something wrong with me is the reason she doesn't want to have sex. So, call me weak all you want.
> 
> I havent shared everything that's been going on with her on this thread. If I did, this thread would be 200 hundred pages, not just 5. So, again, call, me weak all you want. You do not know the whole story.
> 
> I


The people here are complete strangers so can only guide you with the information you give.
You have given bare bones by the above message.
For you to suddenly declare THATS IT I would think is very unusual (I'm newish here) after posting for a day!!!
Do you still love her and want to make the marriage work or as you stated 
*Tonight at dinner, there was very little to no conversation. I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth and she has broken the trust I use to have. Neither will ever be repaired. I'm done*
Is that it in your heart, end of, goodbye???


----------



## sidney2718

Jeffk said:


> Chaparral, I have suspected that she is in an emotional affair for a while. I can't prove it though.


You don't have to prove it to HER. She knows what she is doing. All you have to do is prove it to yourself. And when and if you become convinced (it is all up to you) then you confront. Give her the choice: talk or divorce.


----------



## turnera

Jeffk said:


> Ok, Turnera. I'm confused here. The majority of the people on here have told me to get rid of her, no questions asked. I may be reading it wrong, but that's the way I see it. I have confronted her about an affair AND told her the marriage would be over if she continued it. As far as picking her up and taking her to the bed room, I have tried that as well, only to be turned down. I am not going to force her to have sex with me if she refuses too. I have had excuse, after excuse after excuse about not wanting have sex. I not afraid to admit that I have started wondering if there is something wrong with me is the reason she doesn't want to have sex. So, call me weak all you want.
> 
> I havent shared everything that's been going on with her on this thread. If I did, this thread would be 200 hundred pages, not just 5. So, again, call, me weak all you want. You do not know the whole story.
> 
> I


Why are you getting defensive with me? I'M trying to help you. I WILL call you weak because you don't know what the hell you're doing. Do some reading. Read NMMNG. Like TODAY. Women's excuses are **** TESTS. Don't you understand that? I'm not telling you to rape your wife, but once upon a time, you COULD confidently pick her up off the couch and carry her into the bedroom. Now, all she has to do is say 'ooh, I have a headache,' and you retreat into a corner until you can have another chance to get shot down.

Where did your balls go? WOMEN HATE WEAK MEN. This OM, whoever the hell he is, IS STRONG. He is TAKING WHAT HE WANTS. And you are cowering in the corner. 

Actually, you aren't even doing that. You're doing the passive aggressive act of DOING NOTHING and then going to your lawyer TOMORROW and filing. Behind the cover of your lawyer.

I can't believe you can't see this.


----------



## turnera

Blossom Leigh said:


> I don't call this weak. Its direct and to the point and calls a spade a spade, so it is also not passive aggressive.


But then what, BL? He said that to her, and THEN WHAT? 

I'll tell you.

Nothing.

He did nothing. She blew him off and he let her. And said (to himself, too chicken to say it to her) fine, he'll just go file.


----------



## HarryDoyle

Jeffk said:


> I have come to a decision. It's over. .......













This maybe a new record, suspicion to D in less than a day.


----------



## G.J.

Jeffk
How long have you guys been married ?
Any children ?
How old are you both ?
Both have close parents or not?
When did you stop loving your wife ?


----------



## Sports Fan

JeffK you know the deal and you know shes cheating. If you want concrete proof to confront her with its time to VAR her car and GPS it too.

You should get your results quick smart. Sorry you are going through this. Most here do understand your pain. Ignore the few idiots challenging your integrity.


----------



## 6301

Look. If it's me and she lied and I know she lied about knowing this guy then I call her on it. Right then and there and I don't mince word. She'll get the idea real quick that you know and will not put up with her sneaking any longer and let her know that there is a the door and shut it as she leaves with her stuff. 

The trust is broken and anything coming out of her mouth should be considered a lie and if she wants to work it out with you then you let her know that actions speak louder then words and she got one big time job ahead of her. If not then show her the door.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

turnera said:


> But then what, BL? He said that to her, and THEN WHAT?
> 
> I'll tell you.
> 
> Nothing.
> 
> He did nothing. She blew him off and she let him. And said (to himself, too chicken to say it to her) fine, he'll just go file.



Create the standard, *then* hold the standard.


----------



## turnera

How? He's too afraid to SET a standard.

fwiw, Jeff, I do not dislike you. I'm just trying to wake you up. YOU have the power here, not her. YOU can set the course for your marriage. But you can't do it by staying in the background and hoping she'll see the light. She's waiting for you to LEAD.


----------



## G.J.

6301 said:


> Look. If it's me and she lied and I know she lied about knowing this guy then I call her on it. Right then and there and I don't mince word. She'll get the idea real quick that you know and will not put up with her sneaking any longer and let her know that there is a the door and shut it as she leaves with her stuff.
> 
> The trust is broken and anything coming out of her mouth should be considered a lie and if she wants to work it out with you then you let her know that actions speak louder then words and she got one big time job ahead of her. If not then show her the door.


I would want to do it soon as I found out BUT the best option is to find out exactly what is going on, with proof, as she will lie, which leaves you blind from the start


----------



## poida

God it's hard to read this **** and re-live my own experience.
Cheating *****!
Not sure I'm ready to contribute to this site yet. Thought I was, but not yet.
You know what, I STILL can't believe people do this **** to each other. I just find it amazing.


----------



## Q tip

Jeff, whatever happens, you need to take control and drive this.

Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. EVERYTHING you've been taught about women is wrong. Everything. This is a great read for all men married or single. It will teach you exactly what's going on in your life and hers. 

Damn. You're a man. Grow a damn pair. Or at least borrow your wife's.


----------



## thatbpguy

Jeffk said:


> Someone a few posts back said that women like strong men and I'm being weak. I consider myself to be a strong man, just going through a weak moment.
> 
> Just the other day, I told her "you spend a lot of time on Facebook and your Kindle, you need to put it down, turn it off and actually have a conversation with me. Youre being rude and disrespectful."


Were it me, I'd, literally, throw that damn thing thru a window. Tell her to go out and pick up her boyfriend. She'd get the hint. Then when she walks out, I'd shut the door on her. Tells her you aren't putting up with this.


----------



## thatbpguy

turnera said:


> Huh? That's not strong. That's weak and passive aggressive.
> 
> Read No More Mr Nice Guy.
> 
> A strong man would say NOTHING, gently take the Kindle out of her hand while staring in her eyes, pull her off the couch, pick her up, carry her to the bedroom, and make passionate love to her.
> 
> That's what she's dreaming of the OM to do. That's what you should have been doing all along.


Fail.

That's rewarding wrong behavior.


----------



## Q tip

thatbpguy said:


> Fail.
> 
> That's rewarding wrong behavior.


Huh?


----------



## Q tip

Jeffk said:


> Someone a few posts back said that women like strong men and I'm being weak. I consider myself to be a strong man, just going through a weak moment.
> 
> Just the other day, I told her "you spend a lot of time on Facebook and your Kindle, you need to put it down, turn it off and actually have a conversation with me. Youre being rude and disrespectful."


She laughed her az off. Thinking her OM would not tolerate her behavior like you are. Damn... She wants a man of action not cheap words...

Take her kindle and break the damn thing. Make her confess, then dump her.


----------



## turnera

About says it all.


----------



## thatbpguy

Don't know if you will return, Jeff, but here is my best advice...

First, it does seem obvious she is involved with this guy to some degree. She is betraying you.

Second, you need to determine if you want to try and salvage the marriage. If this is a complete deal breaker, then fine, contact an attorney and get it over with.

If you want to try and salvage this thing, then you have to deal with this. You can tell her what you do know, tell her to either stop lying to you immediately and confess all or the marriage is over (and frankly, she may not even care). Or, you can gather some more info to build a better case- it really doesn't matter.

Third, up or down, she needs to be exposed and so does he if it is possible. This is unacceptable and there has to be accountability for it.


----------



## jin

Good luck Jeff. 

If you are done you are done. But it would be prudent to obtain proof if you don't have any right now. Will be useful in future because your wife will tell everyone you are a jealous crazy husband and she is innocent of any wrong doing.


----------



## dkphap13

Jeff don't mind turnera obviously she thinks every one need tough love to get her point across. From your posts it seem like you are a strong man but your wife's infidelity has just put you too a all time low. Take it from me it's being human I was there too, it happens too a lot of us, it's normal. You fall in love, give your heart to some one, get comfortable and think that will never happen to you, even if the passion is gone. You want to make it more exciting but retreat because you respect your spouse and You think to yourself hey this is my life, I love her and regardless of whatever reason this is the person I will spend and the rest of my life. And then bammm they do this to us. All your actions are completely understandable they don't make you weak just shows that you were in love. Never the less I have to say some thing in Turnera defense it's good to hear what she and how she is saying it. It's not to downgrade you but to push you to be stronger in your recovery. I wish some one had said those things to me when I first found out about my wife's affair I think things would have been a lot different for me. 

Pls don't make rush decisions. All your actions have a counteraction. You want to end it that's fine but do it in the right order of things. Get the evidence first. Then get the lawyer and then serve her the papers but don't tell her until then. If you want to save your marriage then get the evidence first. Then confront her and file for divorce. But under no Circumstances you let her convince you at least in the beginning that it will never happen again 

Good luck to you. Pls stay with us There is a lot more to this. And you will be able to find the right guidance from SOME of the OP's here 

And turnera I get what you are saying. Women don't need husbands, they need husbands to be there lovers. Not to be afraid to make them sad, anger or fight them or Break their Kindle fire hahaha. I get that some of us men forget that over the years becouse we get comfortable and want things to stay nice and quiet and come off as nice to our wife's. But braking her Kindle fire at this stage will give his wife's hopefully just a EA some merits and make him look like an a55 hole crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

dkphap13 said:


> Jeff don't mind turnera
> 
> But braking her Kindle fire at this stage will give his wife's hopefully just a EA some merits and make him look like an a55 hole crazy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Spoken as someone who has less than 100 posts here - and thus, less experience with cheating and the psychology thereof.

Look it up. Women want strong men. Women (some) cheat on weak men.

That's how it works. It's been working that way since caveman days.


----------



## dkphap13

turnera said:


> Spoken as someone who has less than 100 posts here - and thus, less experience with cheating and the psychology thereof.
> 
> Look it up. Women want strong men. Women (some) cheat on weak men.
> 
> That's how it works. It's been working that way since caveman days.


Turnara if you read the last half of my post it will tell you I'm agreeing with you 100% but at this stage in the game you can't go from nice guy to a compleat a55 that will just make him look crazy. Yes I agree he needs to grow balls but slowly and under the right circumstances. I am telling you from experience I did not grow any balls I fact mine disappeared hehehe. And when I did I went over board and mad my self look crazy. But I had to learn it the hard way. I which I had you back then to set me right. my wife's EA would have never became a PA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SadSamIAm

Jeff you need to slow down. You need proof before you confront her. Either by talking or with divorce papers. without proof she will make you look crazy. 

Buy a couple of VARs and place one in her car and one where she sits when she gets home from work. If there is a key logger for a kindle, install that. Then just wait a few days. You should have the proof you need to confront her.


----------



## dkphap13

turnera said:


> Spoken as someone who has less than 100 posts here - and thus, less experience with cheating and the psychology thereof.


I have a job and real life stuff to deal with don't have time to put over 10k posts. 

And less experience with cheating really ? Hahahahahahaha 

I have been cheated on and I WAS a serial cheater. those that qualify me in cheating experience and the psychology they're off ??
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub

I'm with Tunera. Best bet.


----------



## ConanHub

dkphap13 said:


> I have a job and real life stuff to deal with don't have time to put over 10k posts.
> 
> And less experience with cheating really ? Hahahahahahaha
> 
> I have been cheated on and I WAS a serial cheater. those that qualify me in cheating experience and the psychology they're off ??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sir, you have way too much experience with cheating and your situation is so screwed up that I think the bulk of your finances should go to getting professional help for you and your wife.

I will sooner trust the wisdom of a person afloat than the person at the bottom of the ocean.


----------



## dkphap13

ConanHub said:


> Sir, you have way too much experience with cheating and your situation is so screwed up that I think the bulk of your finances should go to getting professional help for you and your wife.
> 
> I will sooner trust the wisdom of a person afloat than the person at the bottom of the ocean.


Ty it's so nice to get advice from someone that has a perfect life. Compare to yours all off us must be in the bottom of the ocean.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha

Hi Jeff and sorry you are here. There are indeed many, many red flags here - her being secretive, looking up Skype and most important ones of all are keeping her phone close to her and LYING!!!

However, do you have a smoking gun yet or are you ending it based on her disrespectful behaviour so far ?


----------



## azteca1986

thatbpguy said:


> Fail.


Agreed.

A strong man would say NOTHING, take the Kindle out of her hand and toss it nonchalantly over his shoulder. Then say "Whatever gave you the impression you could have a boyfriend whilst being married to me? GTFO. He can have you. I've already had you. Nothing I won't miss".


----------



## Blossom Leigh

The strong man is the one savvy enough to create the circumstances that cause her to hand him the kindle herself with full transparency going forward.

And I like Azteca's question but would reword it.. "You are severly misguided to think having a boyfriend while married to me is ok. Its not, and starting in this moment you have xyz time to rectify this situation. You choose to pass xyz time, I place a call to an attorney." 

Thats if he is interested in salvaging. But since he says he is not....


----------



## ButtPunch

His first day and you guys have run him off. He's hurting and you folks are pounding on him. I believe in telling the truth but it's a process. No reason to be rude and disrespectful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jeffk

I got up this morning and read all these posts from yesterday that I didn't see. Most of what I posted yesterday is because I was mad, no let me put it another way, I was p*ssed off ! I have decided though to do two things. 1, Get my balls back. 2. wait until I find more proof. You're right, it is too early in the game to make a rash decision to see my attorney. I AM going to confront her. 

I'm not sure anyone will see this, because they've quit reading this thread but, I have access to her Facebook account. She "liked" a picture that said "My husband is an ass hole." Of course this was hidden from me, because she has me blocked from some of the the things she looks at. 

Like a lot of you said, I might throw that d*mn thing out the window.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Jeffk said:


> I got up this morning and read all these posts from yesterday that I didn't see. Most of what I posted yesterday is because I was mad, no let me put it another way, I was p*ssed off ! I have decided though to do two things. 1, Get my balls back. 2. wait until I find more proof. *You're right, it is too early in the game to make a rash decision to see my attorney.* I AM going to confront her.
> 
> I'm not sure anyone will see this, because they've quit reading this thread but, I have access to her Facebook account. She "liked" a picture that said "My husband is an ass hole." Of course this was hidden from me, because she has me blocked from some of the the things she looks at.
> 
> Like a lot of you said, I might throw that d*mn thing out the window.


It's not too early to see an attorney. It's too early to file the divorce but it won't hurt to find out your rights and obligations under the law.

Var the car. If she's sitting in the car skyping with this guy the var will catch the conversation. Read weightlifters evidence gathering thread and follow those instructions. Pay special attention to the part that says if you hear a mans voice stop listening and have a friend listen to it for you.


----------



## ButtPunch

Nucking Futs said:


> It's not too early to see an attorney. It's too early to file the divorce but it won't hurt to find out your rights and obligations under the law.
> 
> Var the car. If she's sitting in the car skyping with this guy the var will catch the conversation. Read weightlifters evidence gathering thread and follow those instructions. Pay special attention to the part that says if you hear a mans voice stop listening and have a friend listen to it for you.


OP...Glad you are back. If you don't file and blindside her with papers, I suggest you get concrete evidence. Read the books that have been suggested. Only confront when you have the evidence and never give up how you got the evidence. Good Luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Jeffk

One other thing and then I am gone from this page forever. I have been married to this woman for 9 years. The first two were great. The last 7 have been hell. I have done everything I know to do to try and salvage this marriage. I love her deeply, or at one time did. 

I do not appreciate being told to "get my balls back" or "at least borrow hers". I came on this page to seek help, not to have some people tell me that "I am weak" and "passive agressive." 

You're right, I havent shared the whole story. Again, if I shared I have had to endure with her these 9 yrs, the post would be 200 pages. Maybe I am weak for not being gone a long time ago. But, being the sap some of you are saying I am, I stuck around and tried to make it work.

I even convinced her to go to Counseling with me. That lasted maybe two seasons. She said it "wouldn't work." Now, am I weak for wanting her to go to Counseling with me ? Some of you would say so. 

So, dont sit there and tell me I am weak for trying to salvage a marriage she seems to not want to be in. If she doesn't want to be in it, why should I ? If the other guy wants her, he can have her. Period. After a while the real her will come out and he will see what he got.


----------



## Jeffk

Oh, one more thing then I really am gone. How would most of you feel if you got on your husband or wife's FB page and found out that she "liked" a picture that said "my husband is an ass hole." Bet you wouldn't like it, bet you would be hurt by it. Especially after all you have done to make the marriage work and to all who said "I was being passive aggressive" " needed to get my balls back, or at least borrow hers." 

What kind of advice is that to someone who is new to this page and seeking help for a marriage ? Trust me, I WILL get my "balls back" when I confront her this morning about the picture.


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## Blossom Leigh

Why do you keep running off... I don't get it.


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> I got up this morning and read all these posts from yesterday that I didn't see. Most of what I posted yesterday is because I was mad, no let me put it another way, I was p*ssed off ! I have decided though to do two things. 1, Get my balls back. 2. wait until I find more proof. You're right, it is too early in the game to make a rash decision to see my attorney. I AM going to confront her.


Good choice. Just not now. Get your proof first. 

In the meantime, please read this book; it will explain a lot and it'll help you make the changes you need to make, to get her into you again:
No More Mr. Nice Guy | A Plan for Love, Sex, Dating & Career


----------



## turnera

First you say you get it, we were right, and you're going to make changes, now you're back to saying we're all *******s and being mean to you and you're divorcing. I don't understand the back and forth. You seem awfully sensitive to internet strangers' words.


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## Nucking Futs

Jeffk said:


> Oh, one more thing then I really am gone. *How would most of you feel if you got on your husband or wife's FB page and found out that she "liked" a picture that said "my husband is an ass hole."* Bet you wouldn't like it, bet you would be hurt by it. Especially after all you have done to make the marriage work and to all who said "I was being passive aggressive" " needed to get my balls back, or at least borrow hers."
> 
> What kind of advice is that to someone who is new to this page and seeking help for a marriage ? Trust me, I WILL get my "balls back" when I confront her this morning about the picture.


That would depend on who posted it. If a friend of hers posted it I would either think "yeah, that guy is an ass hole" or I'd think "I don't think he's an ass hole, I wonder what he did". I wouldn't think my wife agreeing that her friends husband was an ass hole was any reflection on how she felt about me. Unless she commented that she thought you were an ass hole too.

Now about you leaving because people are calling you weak. You think you leaving here is going to affect anyone here but you? People here try to help people in situations like yours. If you've been here any length of time you realize that situations like yours come up every few days. Some folks follow the advice they're given and have a decent result, most do not and regret it later. But you taking your ball and going home because you're butt hurt over some anonymous person on the internet telling you to man up? Classic.


----------



## Cubby

Jeffk said:


> *Oh, one more thing then I really am gone. *How would most of you feel if you got on your husband or wife's FB page and found out that she "liked" a picture that said "my husband is an ass hole." Bet you wouldn't like it, bet you would be hurt by it. Especially after all you have done to make the marriage work and to all who said "I was being passive aggressive" " needed to get my balls back, or at least borrow hers."
> 
> What kind of advice is that to someone who is new to this page and seeking help for a marriage ? Trust me, I WILL get my "balls back" when I confront her this morning about the picture.


Jeffk, you received some very good advice here. How about a thank you?


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## 6301

Jeffk said:


> Oh, one more thing then I really am gone. How would most of you feel if you got on your husband or wife's FB page and found out that she "liked" a picture that said "my husband is an ass hole." Bet you wouldn't like it, bet you would be hurt by it. Especially after all you have done to make the marriage work and to all who said "I was being passive aggressive" " needed to get my balls back, or at least borrow hers."
> 
> What kind of advice is that to someone who is new to this page and seeking help for a marriage ? Trust me, I WILL get my "balls back" when I confront her this morning about the picture.


 I don't blame you for being pissed when she liked the picture that said "may husband is a A hole. When you saw it is when you should have let her know that she can leave and helped her pack. Seven years of being tormented is seven years too many.


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## turnera

Jeff, just so you know. The reason we harp on the strong/weak thing is because it works. We've seen result after result after result. I've read tons of books about it, as have others. It's basic psychology that women instinctively warm up to strong men and dismiss weak ones. Goes back to caveman days; it's in our DNA to need strong men. 

So, barring whatever it is she's done to you for 7 years that you won't talk about, this is one very simple step you can do - to fix this marriage or maybe the next one. Look hard at yourself, read NMMNG and MMSLP, and maybe Hold On To Your N.U.T.S., and see what keeps women coming back for more. Women WANT to be attracted to their men. 

If she IS cheating, she sees this man as strong because, well, he's taking what he wants. As sick as that sounds, the primal female urge is attracted to that. Aside from your other issues with her, should you want a healthier marriage, work on that strength thing.

And PS: strength doesn't equal assh*le. Strong men don't have to be rude or mean or loud or anything like that. They just have to know what they'll tolerate, give the girl one chance, and leave if she won't respect his boundaries.


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## badmemory

jeffk,

It sounds like you know what you want to do but are not sure how to do it. What I hear is that after years of putting up with her crap, along with her latest episode, you've had enough. You don't love her enough any more to even try.

Fine.

Just be smart about your exit. Try to get some concrete evidence before you confront her with a D. Give her one last opportunity to come clean and show remorse.

Know ahead of confrontation, what you expect from her if she wants to save this marriage; whether you find that smoking gun or not. *Expect* her not to do what she needs to do.

Make a plan, than stick with it. As hard as it is to do, try to calm your anger and emotional reactions.


----------



## jin

*Re: Re: Don't know what she's uo to*



turnera said:


> Jeff, just so you know. The reason we harp on the strong/weak thing is because it works. We've seen result after result after result. I've read tons of books about it, as have others. It's basic psychology that women instinctively warm up to strong men and dismiss weak ones. Goes back to caveman days; it's in our DNA to need strong men.
> 
> So, barring whatever it is she's done to you for 7 years that you won't talk about, this is one very simple step you can do - to fix this marriage or maybe the next one. Look hard at yourself, read NMMNG and MMSLP, and maybe Hold On To Your N.U.T.S., and see what keeps women coming back for more. Women WANT to be attracted to their men.
> 
> If she IS cheating, she sees this man as strong because, well, he's taking what he wants. As sick as that sounds, the primal female urge is attracted to that. Aside from your other issues with her, should you want a healthier marriage, work on that strength thing.
> 
> And PS: strength doesn't equal assh*le. Strong men don't have to be rude or mean or loud or anything like that. They just have to know what they'll tolerate, give the girl one chance, and leave if she won't respect his boundaries.


Jeff provided few background details so we do not know if this is applicable in his case or not. 

Jeff your wife calling you an ******* sucks. If you do get a VAR or access to her emails / messages then you might want to let someone else you trust listen/read it for you. Hearing your woman with another man will make you lose your ****.

I hope i can forget some of the **** my WW said behind my back. 

If you don't have anyone then some of the respected long time posters could do for you. 

As bad as your situation is there are other people going through much worse. Something that might help you give perspective is reading some of the other threads in CWI.


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## Jeffk

I know what most of you are thinking "he's back again ? He's said he is leaving for good about 3 times ". Well, the reason I am back is that I feel I owe a few of you an apology. I know I got a little out of hand and I do apologize.

Let me share a little insight with you. I have been under a TON of stress the last 3 months and my mind has been going about a million miles an hour. I know everyone has stress in their lives, but I feel like I have had more than my share lately. 

First of all, I was diagnosed with Epilepsy in September. A couple of weeks after I told my boss he fired me because I was missing too many days at work for follow up appointments with my Neurologist. 

On the VERY same day I find out my dad has terminal cancer. I still do not know how much longer he has and I don't think he does either. If he does, he hasn't told me. 

Now, I am on 5 different meds for my Epilespy and am unable to do the things I use to be able to do. Simple things, like drive a car. That has been taken away from me. I have to depend on someone else to drive if I want or need to go somewhere. I have always been a very active and independent person. Hardly ever got sick. Not even so much as a cold. 

Then there's this thing with my wife. Is she cheating or not ? Still don't know. Still hasn't been proven.

No, I am not having a pity party. For one, I don't believe in that. I just wanted to offer to everyone a heartfelt apology. Thanks again.


----------



## G.J.

JeffK don't sweat it, what you are going through with out what you have just told us is enough to bring anyone to their knees.
The guys on this board have your best interest at heart believe me.
Its ok to vent on these boards as its better than at home and everyone here understand how gutted you feel

YOU WILL FEEL BETTER IN THE FUTURE I PROMISE

Just listen to the advice as it will make it quicker and easier for you in the long run


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## badmemory

Jeffk said:


> First of all, I was diagnosed with Epilepsy in September. A couple of weeks after I told my boss he fired me because I was missing too many days at work for follow up appointments with my Neurologist.


Sorry for your troubles jeffk.

In regards to being fired. If you've worked at that job more than a year and the company is larger than 50 employees; you should qualify for FMLA protection for a serious illness. Yours would meet the criteria even for intermittent absences. If you weren't informed about that possibility by the company, you should contact a labor attorney. Many will work on a contingency basis.


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## Blossom Leigh

Jeffk said:


> I know what most of you are thinking "he's back again ? He's said he is leaving for good about 3 times ". Well, the reason I am back is that I feel I owe a few of you an apology. I know I got a little out of hand and I do apologize.
> 
> Let me share a little insight with you. I have been under a TON of stress the last 3 months and my mind has been going about a million miles an hour. I know everyone has stress in their lives, but I feel like I have had more than my share lately.
> 
> First of all, I was diagnosed with Epilepsy in September. A couple of weeks after I told my boss he fired me because I was missing too many days at work for follow up appointments with my Neurologist.
> 
> On the VERY same day I find out my dad has terminal cancer. I still do not know how much longer he has and I don't think he does either. If he does, he hasn't told me.
> 
> Now, I am on 5 different meds for my Epilespy and am unable to do the things I use to be able to do. Simple things, like drive a car. That has been taken away from me. I have to depend on someone else to drive if I want or need to go somewhere. I have always been a very active and independent person. Hardly ever got sick. Not even so much as a cold.
> 
> Then there's this thing with my wife. Is she cheating or not ? Still don't know. Still hasn't been proven.
> 
> No, I am not having a pity party. For one, I don't believe in that. I just wanted to offer to everyone a heartfelt apology. Thanks again.


NOW, I get it.... I knew there had to be something significant that was causing you to "flee" so easily. So sorry for these deep troubles. Sounds like you may have a lawsuit with your employer.

So sorry OP. I truly hope you get the help you need. Have you considered a service dog? And living in the city where public transit is possible?


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## Jeffk

Bad memory, and Blossom Leigh, I have filed a complaint with the EEOC for discrimination against someone with a disability. I have also consulted an attorney and am in the process of filing a law suit against him.


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## Blossom Leigh

Jeffk said:


> Bad memory, and Blossom Leigh, I have filed a complaint with the EEOC for discrimination against someone with a disability. I have also consulted an attorney and am in the process of filing a law suit against him.


Good!


----------



## Jeffk

Oh, I forgot. There's one other thing. I forgot to say that my short term memory is gone. Gotta have something to laugh about, right ???:lol:


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## MattMatt

We are here for you, Jeff.


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## Lostinthought61

Sorry to hear about your father....and what your boss did to you was despicable....and I hope you screw him to the wall....and this is what drives me even more crazy with your wife after everything that has happen to you, when you most need her....she is spend her mind on another....screw her to the wall and not in a good way.


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## Yeswecan

Sorry to hear of your woes. Hang tough. There are a bunch here that will lend a ear and support.


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## Jeffk

Trust me Xenote, I am going to everything I can to nail him to the wall. He is the most worthless piece of sh*t I have ever met. He's going to get what he deserves. 

Thank you for your sympathy and support. It is appriciated.


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## warlock07

> I know what most of you are thinking "he's back again ? He's said he is leaving for good about 3 times ". Well, the reason I am back is that I feel I owe a few of you an apology.


Nope, no one thinks that.

I don't think you owe anyone apology either. People who are here and give advice are not perfect either.


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## G.J.

Jeffk is the memory loss caused by side effects of meds or ?

How badly does it effect you..example?

Have you got any buddies that can anchor you while you work through this phase of your problems.

If not use this board even more as much as possible


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## Jeffk

G.J. The memory loss is caused by the seizures and some of the meds. I had a particularly bad seizure Monday. It took me a while to recover from it. Afterwards, I could remember bits and pieces, the rest is gone.


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## Jeffk

I have decided that I am going to wait up until my wife makes it home tonight from work. Then, I am going to take her by the hand then lead her into the den and tell her "we need to talk, if she says let me do "this, or that first" I am going to tell her, "no, this is important, we need to talk now." 

Is that a step in the right direction, or have I just taken two giant ones backwards ?


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## farsidejunky

Depends. What will you say after that?


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## Jeffk

I will say that if she is using Facebook, Twitter, texts, emails, Facebook or any other Social media to chat with other men, it needs to stop. If it doesn't you need to go.


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## betrayed2013

Jeffk said:


> I will say that if she is using Facebook, Twitter, texts, emails, Facebook or any other Social media to chat with other men, it needs to stop. If it doesn't you need to go.


im sure on paper that sounds like a great idea...hell i did that too....it didnt work. She'll say she isnt and then go underground with it by covering her steps....you'll keep stressing out and spy on her and one day, she'll screw up and forget to clear something off and you'll realize she never stopped. I wish i could tell you what to say, but this stuff seems to be rampant and once a woman checks out, she seems to be gone.


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## Jeffk

Well, I'm pretty much at a loss here. With everything else that's going on with me physically, and with my dad, and what seems to be a problem with my wife.

I really don't want to check out. But I am leaning that way. I am stressed beyond belief, and it's just not about her. My emotions and my mind are pretty much spread thin.


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## Jeffk

Another question ? By me saying "she needs to go" is that giving her the out that she has been looking for ? Am I pushing her farther away by saying that ? I know a lot of people have shared good advice, and I thank you for that. I'm just a little overwhelmed right now.


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## happy as a clam

You need print outs of her conversations, chats, emails, phone records and texts, so when she tries to deny it, you can throw the proof in her face.

If you confront too soon, without solid proof, she will deny and take it underground.

Wait a few more days, gather your evidence, then confront.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jin

Without the evidence she will convince you she is not doing anything wrong. You don't need to show her the evidence just have it so you know when she is lying to you.


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## GusPolinski

Jeffk, what kind of phone does your wife use?


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## lisamaree

Don't confront without undeniable solid proof!! Don't even lead her to suspect that you are watching her. It may take time to gather evidence but if you skip this crucial step she will deny, deny, deny and then she will find a more secure way to contact OM.

Do you have access to her cell phone records? See if there are any odd numbers she is chatting with. When you have time to access her phone compare the billed activity to the phone to find out if any messages are missing.

Also I'm confused that you say she has blocked you on Facebook from seeing certain activity but then you state you know her password. If you log in to her Facebook you should be able to see all of her activity.


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## BobSimmons

I don't know who told you to get your b*lls back but that's what is called a 2x4.
Sometimes they are aggressive but believe it or not they are done with your best interests at heart.
People are not attacking you. Indeed many here have been through what you've been through, it's just some people's way of trying to push you in the right direction.

Take a lot of b*lls to endure an unhappy marriage and try to make it work. But that sometimes spills over into apathy, almost like being abusing and being unable to leave.

Never to early to see a lawyer or start to formulate a game plan while you gather evidence.


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## BobSimmons

Jeffk said:


> Another question ? By me saying "she needs to go" is that giving her the out that she has been looking for ? Am I pushing her farther away by saying that ? I know a lot of people have shared good advice, and I thank you for that. I'm just a little overwhelmed right now.






> Well, I'm pretty much at a loss here. With everything else that's going on with me physically, and with my dad, and what seems to be a problem with my wife.
> 
> I really don't want to check out. But I am leaning that way. I am stressed beyond belief, and it's just not about her. My emotions and my mind are pretty much spread thin.


Pretty normal. You want R but are afraid to push her away. But she knows this. If she really had the courage of her convictions she would have up and left, filed for divorce and freely pursued her OM.

You said 7 years of unhappy marriage? She's cool with the status quo, her life, apparently she's getting hers and you? Well you get whatever else, she has no motivation to change or make this better, why would she, she gets fantasy romance with none of the work and you get squat.

You're not pushing anything away because she was never there. In order to win sometimes you have to be willing to lose.
Draw your line in the sand and show her..hey I'm not really fine with you banging someone else! Does that make sense?

If you can't respect yourself, then you're never going to make her respect you enough to want to do the hard work and R.


----------



## yeah_right

happy as a clam said:


> You need print outs of her conversations, chats, emails, phone records and texts, so when she tries to deny it, you can throw the proof in her face.
> 
> If you confront too soon, without solid proof, she will deny and take it underground.
> 
> Wait a few more days, gather your evidence, then confront.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I put it all in a Word doc...screenshots of texts and emails, phone records, dates/times, and handed it to him. Impossible to argue. Can't recommend this enough.


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## Jeffk

You guys are definetly right. I dont have enough evidence to confront her yet. You guys are right again, if I confront her know she will bury it so deep I will have to do a lot of digging. 


Lisa maree, yes, I do have access to her FB account. I check it almost everyday. I guess what I said earlier was confusing, what I meant is that there are certain pages she goes to on FB that I can't see because she has her settings set up where they don't show up on my news feed. I check her activity log every day and see where she has been. 

I noticed this morning that she has been deleting a lot of her history of where she has been and what she's looked at one her Kindle. There use to be a lot of FB sign in's in her history. Not now. There's only a few.

Does this mean that she has been on FB more than what her history shows? I don't know. I'm not a FB guru, can she chat with someone that is not on her friends list ? If she can, I can almost guarantee you she will delete that history from her Kindle.


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## Jeffk

I just checked her activity log, she posted on a page that she goes to and the subject was about open marriages. She commented on it and said that "my rule is, if you stick your d*ck in something else I will cut it off, run over it, and then run over it with the mulching lawn mower." Could it be that I over reacted and she really isn't seeing someone else ? Or could it be that she meant that for the OM to see ?


----------



## Lostinthought61

I believe there is software (app) that you can place on the kindle that will track all activities and then send them to you. If you google it or perhaps some one on here knows....same thing with her window 8 phone.


----------



## Jeffk

GusPolinski, we both have Windows 8 phones ? I'm not really a tech guy. I don't know how to really check to see anything but her Internet activity,but again she may know that I am checking her Internet history and deleting what she doesn't want to see. 

Same thing with text messages. She can delete the ones she doesn't want me to see. She both have FB messenger on our phones. I dont know much about this either except you can delete messages from who you've been chatting with. Can someone who isn't on your friends list chat with you on messenger you is not your friends list.

As far as getting records of her phone activity, we both use the pre paid phones that you put minutes on the phone with cards. We did this because we didn't want to be tied to a contract. I tried to find a way to get her phone records on line from the cell service and was unable too. Am I doing something wrong ? Like I said, I am not much of a tech guy.


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## shellgames

That comment is her rule for you. May not apply to her.


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## shellgames

Rationalization and compartmentalization. Cheater script.


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> Oh, I forgot. There's one other thing. I forgot to say that my short term memory is gone. Gotta have something to laugh about, right ???:lol:


Well, that explains why you keep forgetting you were leaving here for good! :rofl:

Just kidding. Gotta laugh, right?

Anyway, I am SO sorry! That is WAY too much to deal with at one time. I have to say, if I had that all going on right now, I'd just cut my wife loose and focus on the stuff that really matters. With all this going on, your wife turning into a ho in your greatest time of need just shows you what character she DOESN'T have. Tells me that she is just a fair-weather spouse - i.e. she's there as long as things go good for HER, but she never intended to be there for YOU.

I may be wrong; we'll see.

And so you know, I had epilepsy as a child. Took meds for a couple of years and they went away, never came back. There are tons of treatments nowadays.


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## turnera

Jeff, PM a poster named Weightlifter. He's our technical guru. If there's a way to get her data, he'll find it.


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## Jeffk

You're right Turnera, it has been an awful lot to deal with at one time. Seems like these things hit me at one time. It has definetly been heavy burden to bare. One thing, after another, after another, after another. It's a wonder I'm not sitting in a corner drooling with a crazed look in my eyes.

The main reason I am on here, is that I need someone to talk to about everything that is going on in my life and help me deal with it. 
I have been through a LOT since September. 

I have been looking for something like this site for a long time and I am glad I found it. You guys have been great. Anyway, I have to go take my meds now. Some make me very drowsy, so if some of my posts dont make much since, that's why.


----------



## wmn1

Jeffk said:


> GusPolinski, we both have Windows 8 phones ? I'm not really a tech guy. I don't know how to really check to see anything but her Internet activity,but again she may know that I am checking her Internet history and deleting what she doesn't want to see.
> 
> Same thing with text messages. She can delete the ones she doesn't want me to see. She both have FB messenger on our phones. I dont know much about this either except you can delete messages from who you've been chatting with. Can someone who isn't on your friends list chat with you on messenger you is not your friends list.
> 
> As far as getting records of her phone activity, we both use the pre paid phones that you put minutes on the phone with cards. We did this because we didn't want to be tied to a contract. I tried to find a way to get her phone records on line from the cell service and was unable too. Am I doing something wrong ? Like I said, I am not much of a tech guy.


Jeff I know it's been discussed. Any chance of getting a keylogger or spyware on that machine of hers so you can see everything ?


----------



## GusPolinski

Jeffk, have you looked through her archived FB messages? Not sure about how to reach them on a Kindle device, but from a browser (on a PC or Mac) you'd do the following...

Log into her account
Click "Messages" over to the left (underneath "News Feed")
From the Messages interface, select "More" at the top, and then click "Archived"

Think of the archive kind of like the "Recycle Bin" on a Windows PC... the way that it works is that you first have to archive messages, and then you can delete them.


----------



## Jeffk

Another thing I thought of. Could she be resentful that I was diagnosed with Epilepsy and she is the sole provider right now ? Trust me, if there was anything I could do to change that I would. I absolutely HATE not being able to work or drive. I love to deer hunt and it is in season now. I'm afraid to climb up in my stand because of three reasons, it's 15 ft off the ground, some of the meds make me very sleepy and unstable, I could fall out and injure myself and be in a even worse situation I am in now.


----------



## turnera

Yes, psychologically, women need their men to be strong, the protector. So find other ways to do that while you're in treatment and looking for a job. Read those three books asap - NMMNG, MMSLP, and Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. Also read His Needs Her Needs - it's a basic guide to making BOTH of you happy. The more you know, the easier it is to make the right moves. And the first two books show you how to be stronger, to get that attraction flowing.


----------



## Jeffk

Thank you InTheory. Yes,this has been a VERY difficult time in my life. SO not use to not being able to drive and depend on someone else. It sucks. And like in another post, I said I have always been a very active person and very independent person. I dont like not being able to do the things I use to do on a daily basis.

The health of my Dad has been a very heavy burden on me. Really much more than the fact about my wife. And yes, I did bring our vows "for better or worse, in sickness and in health to her." Her response to that was " I do that." 

Honestly, I don't know what she is doing when I am having a seizure. She could be by my side, or in the other room for all I know. But, when I come out of it she is always by my side. Could she have been there the whole time, I don't know.

When I am postictal, I am very confused and don't remember a lot, and this happens for a long time. Yes, I have been through a h*ll of a lot the last 3 months, and I do think I am strong too. 

Growing up, my dad and I didn't have a very close relationship. There was a lot of resentment towards him. Now, I find out he is dying. Now I regret all the things I said and did to him in the past. I am doing all I can to repair our relationship with him. He seems to be receptive to it and we have had a lot of good talks about it. 

Makes me want to cry talking about it. I have tears in my eyes now, and could bust at any minute.


----------



## Jeffk

Another thing. I feel like I need to take care of myself first. In my opinion I am no good to anyone else if I don't. If that's wrong of me to say, I really don't give a damn. If I am being selfish about putting myself first. I really don't give a damn. I have a lot to get settled in my own mind first. Then, and only then, can I take on anything else.

Trying to handle all three at once has been too much, and it has honestly come close to driving me over the edge. Even to the point where I dont give a damn about anything. That worries me and I don't need anything else to worry about right now.


----------



## Jeffk

I know I am posting a lot, but there is one other thing I am dealing with. I buried my favorite Aunt this weekend. She was the most sweet, generous, caring, loving person I have ever met. 

She ALWAYS had a smile on her face. She spent a lot of time in a Nursing home and even then she had a smile on her face. She couldn't walk, but that didn't take the smile off her face. She was loved very much, and I will miss her. She was also my Dads sister.


----------



## carmen ohio

Jeffk said:


> I know I am posting a lot, but there is one other thing I am dealing with. I buried my favorite Aunt this weekend. She was the most sweet, generous, caring, loving person I have ever met.
> 
> She ALWAYS had a smile on her face. She spent a lot of time in a Nursing home and even then she had a smile on her face. She couldn't walk, but that didn't take the smile off her face. She was loved very much, and I will miss her. She was also my Dads sister.


Man, that's a lot of bad stuff to happen to just one guy.

Please tell me you're not also a Jets fan.


----------



## Jeffk

Lol, no I'm not a Jets fan. I don't actually watch Pro football. Im more of a College football guy.


----------



## thummper

Jeffk said:


> Lol, no I'm not a Jets fan. I don't actually watch Pro football. *Im more of a College football guy*.


Yes, they're only semi-pros.  I hope you can have a good Thanksgiving, Jeff.


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## G.J.

Can you get your hands on her kindle when she goes to sleep ?


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## Blossom Leigh

Jeffk said:


> Lol, no I'm not a Jets fan. I don't actually watch Pro football. Im more of a College football guy.


Me too!! Roll Tide Baby!


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## Jeffk

Yes G.J. In fact I usually do that. But since she stays up so late after she gets home from work, she has a chance to delete her history. I will tell you one thing, I am getting sick and tired of being turned down for sex. I wrote her a love letter before I went to bed last night and left it for her to see when she got home. 

I know I said I was going to stay up and talk to her when she got home, but the meds I take make me very sleepy and I just couldnt do it. 

This morning she told me she loved the letter. So, I tried what someone suggested about looking into her eyes, kissing her, and leading her to the bedroom. Once again, she turned me down. Said she wasnt in the mood. Maybe we could try it this weekend.

Im getting sick and tired of this sh*t. Something's got to change. I will admit, the thought of seeking it elsewhere has entered my mind. I won't do it though. For one, the guilt would kill me. For another thing, I follow the vows we took when we were married "foresaking all others." I am beginning to get pissed about this and blowing up on her. I won't do this either. 

I am going to play it cool, and act like it's not bothering me.


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> I will tell you one thing, I am getting sick and tired of being turned down for sex. I wrote her a love letter before I went to bed last night and left it for her to see when she got home.
> This morning she told me she loved the letter. So, I tried what someone suggested about looking into her eyes, kissing her, and leading her to the bedroom. Once again, she turned me down. Said she wasnt in the mood. Maybe we could try it this weekend.


OMG STOP DOING THAT!

You haven't read NMMNG yet, have you? STOP WRITING LOVE LETTERS!

Do you know why she said she loved it? Because to proved to her that you are a schmuck, in the Friend Zone, and you'll sit there on the couch night after night after night, like the good little dog you are, while she goes out and lives her life.

She's never going to have sex with you again until you get rid of the other men she's seeing.

Did you hear me yet?

STOP WRITING LOVE LETTERS!

The strong man doesn't do that. He PROVES his love, doesn't have to say it, SURELY doesn't have to leave it on her pillow.

Dammit man, download that book RIGHT NOW and start reading.


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## G.J.

Have you got a VAR yet and installed it in car?

have you contacted weightlifter on here yet as he will tell you what to do ref surveillance ?

If you can afford it might be worth getting secret camera to see what she does next time you have seizure amazon/ebay not the expensive ones


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## carmen ohio

Jeffk said:


> Lol, no I'm not a Jets fan. I don't actually watch Pro football. *Im more of a College football guy.*





Blossom Leigh said:


> *Me too!!* Roll Tide Baby!


No law against liking college and pro (and high school and pee-wee).


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## Jeffk

We just had a talk and she told me that she has been incredibly stressed and her libido is in the toilet. I can give her that. Considering everything that has happened lately I can certainly understand her being stressed. I know I certainly am. 

Another thing I am getting absolutely sick and tired off is being told I am "weak" and a "lap dog" and all this cave man sh*t. No, my feelings aren't hurt. You can call me "weak" and a "lap dog" all you want. 

I don't have to prove to you or anybody else on this page how strong I am. I already know how strong I am. Condering all that I have been through in the last 3 months, I think I am quite strong thank you. And by the way, I am not taking offense to what complete strangers are saying on the Internet.


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## Jeffk

Oh, and by the way, I don't think there's a problem with leaving love notes. I believe it does show her I love her. And I DO things that show her. And, I am not using my physical condition as an excuse, but I COULD not stay awake to talk to her last night. No matter how hard I tried. My suggestion to you is to get your nose out of the books and trying a little one on one time. And once again, I am not taking offense to what strangers say on the internet. You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.


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## G.J.

What you have gone through is a hell of a lot in the last 3 months 

A lot of guys would have buckled by now

The macho talk is about you *looking tough in her eyes* as its the old caveman theory that a mate loves a strong dominate type (I think we have evolution and needing to reproduce to thank for that)
That's why the saying good guys come last has a lot of truth in it


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## thummper

Jeffk said:


> Oh, and by the way, *I don't think there's a problem with leaving love notes. I believe it does show her I love her. And I DO things that show her*. And, I am not using my physical condition as an excuse, but I COULD not stay awake to talk to her last night. No matter how hard I tried. My suggestion to you is to get your nose out of the books and trying a little one on one time. And once again, I am not taking offense to what strangers say on the internet. You are entitled to your opinion, just as I am entitled to mine.


I do this frequently for my wife, too. Hang in there, Jeff.


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## Jeffk

Ok G.J. I'm not sure how to take your last post. Are you agreeing with the cave man crap, or disagreeing with it. As upset and emotional as my wife was when we talked to her a minute ago, I have no choice to believe she was being sincere, and the tears were certainly not fake. 

I am the one who was in the room with her when we were talking. Not any of you. Judge me if you want. But I believe her. Tell me I'm weak and that I will finish last because I am a good guy. I take pride in being a good guy and not over bearing. If thats going to make me finish last. So be it.


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## thatbpguy

Jeffk said:


> I just checked her activity log, she posted on a page that she goes to and the subject was about open marriages. She commented on it and said that "my rule is, if you stick your d*ck in something else I will cut it off, run over it, and then run over it with the mulching lawn mower." Could it be that I over reacted and she really isn't seeing someone else ? Or could it be that she meant that for the OM to see ?


Hard to say, but be careful with this chick. OUCH!!!


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## thatbpguy

Blossom Leigh said:


> Me too!! Roll Tide Baby!


No, no, you meant Go Ducks!


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## thatbpguy

Ya know, after nearly every page this takes on a whole new twist. Something new is added repeatedly in defense or to be considered.... I wonder when it will all end.

So, after taking all this in.....

I still think that Jeff's wife has a guy friend she is hiding. That much is obvious. But we also see Jeff's issues more and more and what may have led up to all this. Not that she is at all justified, but clearly there is a huge disconnect in the marriage from both sides. Huge.

I think the best thing is for some serious counseling. Both together as well as individual. Some serious stuff going on ad it should be professionally addressed.


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## BobSimmons

Wait this thread was about possible infidelity now it's morphed into the OP taking shots at posters for leaving love letters et al.

Hmm


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## G.J.

Hi Jeffk

I was just trying to let you know the direction some of the posts were coming from, not that you arnt an Alpha but at the minute you need to make her see you in that light, that's what they are saying



> We just had a talk and she told me that she has been incredibly stressed and her libido is in the toilet. I can give her that. Considering everything that has happened lately I can certainly understand her being stressed. I know I certainly am.





> As upset and emotional as my wife was when we talked to her a minute ago, I have no choice to believe she was being sincere, and the tears were certainly not fake. .


If there's some one else in the relationship EA or what ever then its no wonder she's like that
So until you get more info on her activities (as you know she is hiding stuff) its just perpetuating and will only get worse

So have you got VAR?
Contacted weightlifter ?
Thought about a spycam ?

It will eventually get better


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## Stillasamountain

Jeffk said:


> Another thing I am getting absolutely sick and tired off is being told I am "weak" and a "lap dog" and all this cave man sh*t. No, my feelings aren't hurt. You can call me "weak" and a "lap dog" all you want.



There's a reason why people keep pointing it out to you.

And it's not "caveman" to have some self respect and boundaries. Being a doormat is not an attractive option for anyone. Ever. I sympathize with the rough time you're having with recent circumstances, but we'd be doing you a huge disservice by not pointing what is painfully obvious to most of us.


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## wmn1

Stillasamountain said:


> There's a reason why people keep pointing it out to you.
> 
> And it's not "caveman" to have some self respect and boundaries. Being a doormat is not an attractive option for anyone. Ever. I sympathize with the rough time you're having with recent circumstances, but we'd be doing you a huge disservice by not pointing what is painfully obvious to most of us.



Jeff is defensive and rugsweeping. He has abandoned doing anything constructive to help himself. he needs to be aggressive and stop slamming the people on this board for helping him out, especially on Thanksgiving.

Jeff, rather than blasting us, tell us the gameplan you have on making sure your marriage survives and what steps you are taking to protect yourself... Otherwise good luck


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## Jeffk

I tell you what. You can criticize me all you want. This doesn't apply to all of you. Most of you guys on here are convinced that my wife is having an affair and that I am blindly letting it go on. Now, I'm not so sure she is. I have absolutely no evidence that she is, but a lot of y'all are convinced. I came here for advice, not to be belittled. A lot of you have you're own issues that you need to work out and I seriously hope you get help for them if you aren't already. I wish I had never come to this site. This time I mean it. I won't be back.


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## thatbpguy

Jeffk said:


> I tell you what. You can criticize me all you want. This doesn't apply to all of you. Most of you guys on here are convinced that my wife is having an affair and that I am blindly letting it go on. Now, I'm not so sure she is. I have absolutely no evidence that she is, but a lot of y'all are convinced. I came here for advice, not to be belittled. A lot of you have you're own issues that you need to work out and I seriously hope you get help for them if you aren't already. I wish I had never come to this site. This time I mean it. I won't be back.


OK.

Bye.


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## SadSamIAm

Jeffk said:


> I tell you what. You can criticize me all you want. This doesn't apply to all of you. Most of you guys on here are convinced that my wife is having an affair and that I am blindly letting it go on. Now, I'm not so sure she is. I have absolutely no evidence that she is, but a lot of y'all are convinced. I came here for advice, not to be belittled. A lot of you have you're own issues that you need to work out and I seriously hope you get help for them if you aren't already. I wish I had never come to this site. This time I mean it. I won't be back.


You should quit telling us you won't be back. 

You are going through a lot and you need someplace to vent and get advice. 

You just need to learn to bounce over things you find offensive.

I have a feeling things are going to get worse on the home front and many people here can help you!!!


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## Sports Fan

Jeffk said:


> I tell you what. You can criticize me all you want. This doesn't apply to all of you. Most of you guys on here are convinced that my wife is having an affair and that I am blindly letting it go on. Now, I'm not so sure she is. I have absolutely no evidence that she is, but a lot of y'all are convinced. I came here for advice, not to be belittled. A lot of you have you're own issues that you need to work out and I seriously hope you get help for them if you aren't already. I wish I had never come to this site. This time I mean it. I won't be back.


Jeff no belittling from me, just straight out advice. You have your suspicions regarding your wifes behavour. Her actions are red flag triggers for possible affair.

Install a VAR in her car ASAP and then install some spy ware on her devices.

At the very least install the VAR. Hopefully it will lead to the answers you seek qucikly


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## notmyrealname4

Jeffk said:


> We just had a talk and she told me that she has been incredibly stressed and her libido is in the toilet. I can give her that. Considering everything that has happened lately I can certainly understand her being stressed. I know I certainly am.





Jeffk said:


> As upset and emotional as my wife was when we talked to her a minute ago, I have no choice to believe she was being sincere, and the tears were certainly not fake.


If you come back, jeff, I just wanted to say that the above^^^, is really good. You need communication. You need more of this with your wife.

She's not handling your illness and resulting job loss very well. She is escaping into a cyber-world at least, as far as we know.

What you said here is promising. It shows she can be reached. I hope you guys can build on this.


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## turnera

thummper said:


> I do this frequently for my wife, too. Hang in there, Jeff.


Do you do it WHILE SHE IS CHEATING?


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> Tell me I'm weak and that I will finish last because I am a good guy. I take pride in being a good guy and not over bearing. If thats going to make me finish last. So be it.


Just proves you haven't read ANY of the books we've recommended.

Strong men ARE NOT OVERBEARING.

Strong men take a stand and stick by it. Strong men don't accept being treated like crap. Strong men don't accept their wives going out til 2am and laughing online about ******* husbands.

Strong men DO NOT ACT MEAN. Only WEAK men do that.

You don't know what you're talking about. You are afraid she will leave you. Period. So you shower her with love and love letters and kissing her butt WHILE she is looking elsewhere.

Doesn't work, man. Ignore me, fine, I don't care. Your marriage you're throwing away.

At least read the freakin' books before you tell us we don't know what we're talking about.


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## tacoma

Jeffk said:


> I tell you what. You can criticize me all you want. This doesn't apply to all of you. Most of you guys on here are convinced that my wife is having an affair and that I am blindly letting it go on. Now, I'm not so sure she is. I have absolutely no evidence that she is, but a lot of y'all are convinced. I came here for advice, not to be belittled. A lot of you have you're own issues that you need to work out and I seriously hope you get help for them if you aren't already. I wish I had never come to this site. This time I mean it. I won't be back.


Jeff,

Do you both share the same Amazon account on the Kindle?
I'm assuming you do since you share the Kindle.

Go online on a PC and have a look at the apps purchased on that account.
Look for messaging or video conferencing apps.
They may not be on the Kindle but they will be in your purchased apps in your Amazon account.

Often cheaters will download a messaging app every day, use it to communicate with their AP and delete it off the device before their spouse can get hold of it.

You were asked pages ago what kind of phone she has and never answered it.
Please answer that question and we can tell you how to retrieve deleted texts/messages.

Have you considered putting the VAR in her car?
It's the fastest way to bust her if she is cheating and honestly the beginning of this thread you posted quite a few infidelity red flags.

Also, I know Turnera is pissing you off but you should listen to what she's saying...it's valuable info.

Stop with the love letters and trying to "win" her back, it only pushes her away.
It's not what she wants right now.


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## G.J.

tacoma said:


> Stop with the love letters and trying to "win" her back, it only pushes her away.
> It's not what she wants right now.


I know it sounds crazy Jeffk but its true !!!


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## turnera

Jeffk said:


> I tell you what. You can criticize me all you want. This doesn't apply to all of you. Most of you guys on here are convinced that my wife is having an affair and that I am blindly letting it go on. Now, I'm not so sure she is. I have absolutely no evidence that she is, but a lot of y'all are convinced. I came here for advice, not to be belittled. A lot of you have you're own issues that you need to work out and I seriously hope you get help for them if you aren't already. I wish I had never come to this site. This time I mean it. I won't be back.


Yet ONE MORE man afraid to confront his wife who chews out those who know better and are trying to save him from the hardship ahead.

Oh well.

PS, Jeff, just to help you medically, has it occurred to you yet that you always have these epiphanies/anger issues at night? Maybe there's something medically that makes you blow up at night. May want to ask your doctor about that.


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## thatbpguy

turnera said:


> Yet ONE MORE man afraid to confront his wife who chews out those who know better and are trying to save him from the hardship ahead.
> 
> Oh well.
> 
> PS, Jeff, just to help you medically, has it occurred to you yet that you always have these epiphanies/anger issues at night? Maybe there's something medically that makes you blow up at night. May want to ask your doctor about that.


Aside from the emotional issues we see, he states he is epileptic and the problems that can bring. I know I'm not a mod here, but I think it best to close this one down.


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