# Gifts



## Johann Sebastian

I am responsible for my own happiness and contentment. If I have emotional upsets, that is a result not of external events, but of my own internal thoughts and feelings about those external events. So if my spouse says or does something to hurt me, I'm really hurt by my own feelings and beliefs about what she did, especially absolute beliefs like "she shouldn't do that" or "she has no right to do that" or "she must behave a certain way or it would be awful." The same goes for her. My behavior only hurts her based on her belief that it is "bad." She is happy or unhappy based on her own evaluation of her life circumstances, not on the circumstances themselves.

The corollary is that I will not get to marital happiness based on my own selfish demands, and the same is true for her. Think about it. Let's say I demand sex. Scenario one, nothing happens. I am resentful because my demand has not been met. It's not fair. (It may not be fair, but that's not the point). She is resentful because I am acting like a selfish pig. Scenario two, she "gives in" and gives me sex. She is likely resentful and it becomes a chore to her, and additionally I may be resentful because she may just be going through the motions and is not really into it. Nobody is happy when a selfish demand is made, no matter what the outcome. The reverse is also true. Wife nags about whatever it is (you never help me with ____________) and husband either ignores, or complains, or does it begrudgingly. Everyone ends up resentful.

Assuming both parties truly want a marriage to work (not true in all cases of course), IMO both parties have to first acknowledge that husband and wife are, respectively, autonomous individuals responsible for their own happiness and that each is entitled to unconditional acceptance for who they are. A marriage can really thrive if the parties freely give to one another as a gift, motivated by love. So I can communicate what I want (not demand) and my wife can give me that gift freely and voluntarily, and the reverse is true as well. This works great if both people do it out of a spirit of kindness and compassion. If only one person is giving and the other is a control freak, obviously it won't work so well.


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## StarFires

That's the principle behind Policy of Joint Agreement.

What was your point in posting?


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## Johann Sebastian

Never heard of "marriage builders." I was just posting my observations and personal philosophy.


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## StarFires

I fixed the link so that it's clickable now. Sorry about that.

"This rule teaches couples to become thoughtful and sensitive to each other's feelings when they don't feel like it."

It teaches couples to think of the other before thinking of themselves. When there is a decsion to be made, for example, think of what would make them happy so that each person enthusiastically works to make each other happy, as opposed to thinking of oneself and what would make you happy. It's the same thing you are saying and teaches people how to do it.

The site teaches a lot about background psycho factors too in order to help people overcome their background and their habits so they can become more open to giving (or gifting as you put it) in a relationship.

But I disagree with you that it should be called gifts or gifting.


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## [email protected]

Let's get down to brass tacks.

My wife likes to give me blow jobs because it makes me happy. She has it down to two minutes. I don't ask for them. A woman with half a brain ought to look at that two minute workload and understand the incredible return on investment it is. I can gear up for a 16 hour day at 20 below zero with that act of kindness.

I can also pull off pounding her for multiple times a day when I see she needs it. And it always works. I get away with murder because of it.

Same goes for feeding me, for fixing her toilet for her, for the laundry, the plumbing, etc. etc. Even if you are a sociopath and have no feelings for anyone, the logic here ought to convince people that these acts have enormous pay-offs.


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## Livvie

Johann Sebastian said:


> I am responsible for my own happiness and contentment. If I have emotional upsets, that is a result not of external events, but of my own internal thoughts and feelings about those external events. So if my spouse says or does something to hurt me, I'm really hurt by my own feelings and beliefs about what she did, especially absolute beliefs like "she shouldn't do that" or "she has no right to do that" or "she must behave a certain way or it would be awful." The same goes for her. My behavior only hurts her based on her belief that it is "bad." She is happy or unhappy based on her own evaluation of her life circumstances, not on the circumstances themselves.
> 
> The corollary is that I will not get to marital happiness based on my own selfish demands, and the same is true for her. Think about it. Let's say I demand sex. Scenario one, nothing happens. I am resentful because my demand has not been met. It's not fair. (It may not be fair, but that's not the point). She is resentful because I am acting like a selfish pig. Scenario two, she "gives in" and gives me sex. She is likely resentful and it becomes a chore to her, and additionally I may be resentful because she may just be going through the motions and is not really into it. Nobody is happy when a selfish demand is made, no matter what the outcome. The reverse is also true. Wife nags about whatever it is (you never help me with ____________) and husband either ignores, or complains, or does it begrudgingly. Everyone ends up resentful.
> 
> Assuming both parties truly want a marriage to work (not true in all cases of course), IMO both parties have to first acknowledge that husband and wife are, respectively, autonomous individuals responsible for their own happiness and that each is entitled to unconditional acceptance for who they are. A marriage can really thrive if the parties freely give to one another as a gift, motivated by love. So I can communicate what I want (not demand) and my wife can give me that gift freely and voluntarily, and the reverse is true as well. This works great if both people do it out of a spirit of kindness and compassion. If only one person is giving and the other is a control freak, obviously it won't work so well.


Paragraph one absolutely does not hold true for all acts. Sometimes emotional upsets really are in response to what someone else does to you, period, no question, and not just for to own your "perception" of that you should be responsible for. If my partner beats me, is extremely verbally abusive, or withholds/withdraws to an extreme degree other nothing reasonable, ain't no way you can put that on yourself as you have to just perceive it differently to be responsible for your own happiness. 

Abuse happens, and when it does, you need to hold the OTHER person accountable 100% and proceed accordingly.


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