# "Why Do You Keep Asking Questions About It?"



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

*&quot;Why Do You Keep Asking Questions About It?&quot;*

One thing that annoys me, is when I occasionally ask questions about past infidelity situations (maybe about once every 3 weeks or so, but less frequently since Dday 6 months ago), I am starting to get some push-back from the W. Like "why can't we move on", and "haven't I answered all those questions already?" She says it "makes her feel bad when I bring it up again."
I remind her of our agreement for full disclosure, and that for her it was 12 yrs ago, and for me 6 months since learning the truth.

Example: yesterday on the shower radio news it was reported that Bill Cosby had finally been arrested and charged for unlawful drugging and rape of a woman many years ago. We were in the shower discussing why he needed to drug/rape women when most likely, as a wealthy celebrity, he most likely would have willing partners. My fWW had an experience where she was unknowingly drugged/SA by an OM once. For years prior she had a sexual relationship with him, so why would he need to drug her one night when she was willing? I pointed out the similarities with Bill Cosby and asked her why do these men do this? She said it was because they are narcissists and want total control over a woman, even when they are willing partners. Then she proceeded to get angry that I was even talking about an old relationship, because it makes her feel bad to talk about it. 

My other favorite cheater line is "Does it matter now, that was so long ago?" I should have a female friend that I know call my W's phone and inform her that I impregnated her years ago and now she wants child support. When my W confronts me, I'll say "Does it matter now, that was so long ago?"


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Did her relationship w/ this OM end once she learned that she'd been drugged and sexually assaulted?

Pending an answer to that, it's possible that her unease w/ discussing this particular topic may stem from either a) residual trauma that she may feel due to having been drugged and assaulted or b) the fact that she's lying about having been drugged and assaulted (which, of course, assumes that she is indeed lying).


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Did her relationship w/ this OM end up learning that she'd been drugged and sexually assaulted?
> 
> Pending an answer to that, it's possible that her unease w/ discussing this particular topic may stem from either a) residual trauma that she may feel due to having been drugged and assaulted or b) the fact that she's lying about having been drugged and assaulted (which, of course, assumes that she is indeed lying).


Based on her word alone, this event ended their relationship. But I think her uneasiness about the direction of the discussion was based on this: I was probably about to "blame the victim" and say she brought this on herself for 2 reasons. One, she shouldn't have been in a long-term sexual relationship with a married man and her still legally married. And Two, if he really was an extremely narcissist control freak and a bad guy, shouldn't she have figured that out during the two prior years of the relationship? Affairs have consequences, and this is one of them.


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

It never goes away - triggers everywhere. You just have more distance with time and less frequent hurt - but when your triggering it hurts like the first time (sometimes). I got the same lines early on. A classic was when she was giving me some detail and I became really angry. Yes I had asked for the detail, I did it to myself, but I am entitled to know it all. For my ex WS it was the perfect excuse later on - "Well I'm not talking about that, you become so angry...."

They like to think you have moved on; who wouldn't in their position. But they'd be wrong about that. You don't actually move on, not in the first few years, you live with humiliation and bitterness. I fully realised this not that long ago. Her affair with that filthy rat really f**ked me up. But at some point you do have to move on. Imagine having to live this way to the end. That's my dream - to get past it; stuck in quicksand as I might be right now.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

So not only does she have the trauma of knowing she cheated on you and on any children you might have, she had the added trauma of knowing that she had a TWO YEAR affair with a rapist who drugged and raped her.

I wonder if she requires counselling to help her get her head sorted out?

That's great, isn't it? "Can't 'we' just 'move on'?" ="You know, it would be SO great if you could ignore the hole I put through your heart. And could you PLEASE stop dripping blood on the carpet? We have guests coming over soon and I don't want them knowing that I stuck the knife of infidelity into your chest."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

_"Why Do You Keep Asking Questions About It?"_. That's the trouble with some folks trying to stay in a marriage after one or the other cheats; the betrayed spouse continues to want to exhume and autopsy the body. Right or wrong the cheating spouse gets to the point where they say to themselves, "Geez, how much more can I say". 
You, as the cheatee, will never get over it (no more than you can "get over" a death) nor can you legitimately trust her again. (she's proven there's a level of pressure where she'll cross the line) She may not cheat again, but in your mine you will never be reasonably certain. Folks only get one shot at trustworthiness.
In reality, there ain't a hell of a lot your continuous interrogations are going to do. Perhaps you need to question yourself about why you're staying with a spouse who did something that's going to cause you misery and trepidation an indeterminate amount of time in the future. Your continuous questions may be just a method of temporarily assuaging yourself and prolonging the recognition that you can't live with the fact that she betrayed you.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You do not talk about the affair constantly do you?

You just bring it up when you are reminded of her cheating such as the allegations of infidelity snd drug use against Bill Cosby, a local media star, a pastor or the like?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> _"Why Do You Keep Asking Questions About It?"_. That's the trouble with some folks trying to stay in a marriage after one or the other cheats; the betrayed spouse continues to want to exhume and autopsy the body. Right or wrong the cheating spouse gets to the point where they say to themselves, "Geez, how much more can I say".
> You, as the cheatee, will never get over it (no more than you can "get over" a death) nor can you legitimately trust her again. (she's proven there's a level of pressure where she'll cross the line) She may not cheat again, but in your mine you will never be reasonably certain. Folks only get one shot at trustworthiness.
> In reality, there ain't a hell of a lot your continuous interrogations are going to do. Perhaps you need to question yourself about why you're staying with a spouse who did something that's going to cause you misery and trepidation an indeterminate amount of time in the future. Your continuous questions may be just a method of temporarily assuaging yourself and prolonging the recognition that you can't live with the fact that she betrayed you.


*Given that your heart, @MAJDEATH, was once firmly into R, presumably as a means of marriage preservation, I think that solution has finally run its due course. 

I think that you'd be far happier putting this sordid past of hers behind you; and a bright future placed squarely in front of you! There seemingly is no trust left between the two of you!

*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I understand the need to ask questions. It like you have to piece together your life (not hers) over that period to find out what was real, what was a lie, when were you being manipulated. You need to make sense of your personal story. Without honest answers, there is a giant hole.

"All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story or tell a story about them."-Karen Blixen


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I understand the need to ask questions. It like you have to piece together your life (not hers) over that period to find out what was real, what was a lie, when were you being manipulated. You need to make sense of your personal story. Without honest answers, there is a giant hole.
> 
> "All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story or tell a story about them."-Karen Blixen


Additionally, “Unless we are willing to escape into sentimentality or fantasy, often the best we can do with catastrophes, even our own, is to find out exactly what happened and restore some of the missing parts.” - Norman Maclean, Young Men and Fire

"But after its restored to the greatest extent practicable, accept it for what you now have before you or you give it up. It ain't gonna get no better." -ThePheonix, Don't Let Your Mouth Overload Your Azz.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I've never had a single question answered from my ex and I and not in R so I'm left with the fact I have to accept I will never get answers. Part of this is conjecture on my part but I think everyone will always have questions and at some point you just have to accept your never going to get full answers.

Your never going to truly know what was going thru there heads when it was occurring, leading up to it etc. Your spouse has "demonized" the om in her head, she has had years to do it. He was a master manipultor, control freak, now he drugged her. It's always an angle with her. Whether all this happened who knows. 

I find it interesting in my situation now that the jello clown story has started coming out my crazy ex is now telling people I did this to her which of course never happened but for her it's just another easy angle for sympathy and her whole queen of victimhood.

Do triggers ever go away, I don't think so. Will questions always come up in your mind, yes. Will your ever get full and complete answers now, probably not. This is just another joy and short end of stick bs get. Especially how many years ago it happened for you.


----------



## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I agree the need to ask questions is to sort out the whole story. What is real and what is not. Everything has to be reframed as new information is given or as a new conclusion or question is formulated. A trigger vomits all those questions up again…..this doesn't make sense in light of what you said happened, I need clarification… I need more details about this because I just remembered something and now I'm missing information and I need to make sense of …..

The timeline is never completed or precisely accurate based on our memories and interpretations of events.


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

My husband will not ask me questions. Everything I've told him has come from ME wanting him to know the details.

Mostly because I want him to know that it's not everything he thinks it was. I think he has this glorified version of a drawn out romantic, pleasure filled escapade. Which is not what I did. My one time contact was filled with confusion, manipulation, intermittent good feelings that someone was interested in me, knowing it was wrong, attempting to stop it, to finally doing what I did and stopping. 

My husband does not believe I stopped. He says it's the same as him saying to me "oh I only stuck my **** in her for a second and then stopped" and that it's all bull****. 

He believes that more happened and I just haven't told him. I don't blame him for that, knowing that I trickle truthed and lied. 

But I would THINK that a truly remorseful spouse would WANT to share the details, even if they are embarrassing. Once you have admitted what you did, why not give the actual details? Come clean, get everything out in the open so there cannot be any more questions? 

My husband thinks there's more like I said, which I don't blame him for. But like I've said before, there is NOTHING stopping me from giving more details if there were any. I have nothing left to lose at this point. I've lost it all. And what my husband can't seem to see is, I finally told him because he deserves the truth. He never deserved to be lied to in the first place, seeing the pain I caused is enough for me to know that if I were hiding anything else, it would just hurt him again and ruin any chance I'd ever have of him being with me again or even as my friend. 

When my husband first brought up divorce, he swears that he tried to talk to me about the kiss later and that I said "we've already talked about this, I'm not talking about it again". I know damn well I never said any such thing. Given my mind state for the years after my infidelity, I often hoped he would push me further. I carried a lot of guilt and regret for a long time, still do. I drank heavily, cried often and would work my mind into a state of frenzy really trying to go back in time and change what I did. Had he pushed me to talk about it earlier, I may have come clean earlier.

I've stated before, my husband made it easy for me to hide what I did BECAUSE he never pushed for details. Literally 3-4 days after the supposed kiss, things were back to how they used to be. And it never came up again. I thought he wanted to forget it and I wanted nothing more than to bury it. I only had to face what I did in my mind. My conscious was my only punishment. It wasn't a pretty place, but it was the only place I actually faced consequences.

I would like nothing more than to sit down with my husband, go over every single detail, have him question whatever he wants and have him actually see and feel my emotions of sadness, regret, remorse and wish to be able to make this right. But that will never happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MAJOR,

Are you and your wife going to marriage counseling? You have said you've been in reconciliation for ten years or longer, correct? So why was d-day six months ago? I'm just trying to understand your story, and I have many thoughts on what is going on. I've also noticed when people have challenged you you become quite agitated. Why? Are you thinking deep down, that just maybe this is more then you could accept? If you would rather, I can PM my thoughts to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> My husband will not ask me questions. Everything I've told him has come from ME wanting him to know the details.
> 
> Mostly because I want him to know that it's not everything he thinks it was. I think he has this glorified version of a drawn out romantic, pleasure filled escapade. Which is not what I did. My one time contact was filled with confusion, manipulation, intermittent good feelings that someone was interested in me, knowing it was wrong, attempting to stop it, to finally doing what I did and stopping.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to be mean, but at some point you are going to have to stop blaming your husband for getting fed up with your trickle truth. You chose to do what you did. 

You had control over your actions: the sexual affair, and the later trickle truth. Who cares what specific act you did, you had sex with a man who wasn't your husband. One time or hundred times. A hand job, or a blow job. Does't matter. You failed to control yourself.

You can't control your husband's response to your actions.

Let it go. Learn from it and never cheat again with your next husband or boyfriend.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

M, with all these multiple threads you have started, each one addressing your wife's infidelity from a different angle, is it far fetched for me to assume that you are a man trying to talk himself into something? Or trying desperately to talk himself out of something that, deep down in his heart, he knows he needs to do?

I get the feeling that you know...in your soul's center...that what your wife did was a deal breaker.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> One thing that annoys me, is when I occasionally ask questions about past infidelity situations (maybe about once every 3 weeks or so, but less frequently since Dday 6 months ago), I am starting to get some push-back from the W. Like "why can't we move on", and "haven't I answered all those questions already?" She says it "makes her feel bad when I bring it up again."
> I remind her of our agreement for full disclosure, and that for her it was 12 yrs ago, and for me 6 months since learning the truth.
> 
> Example: yesterday on the shower radio news it was reported that Bill Cosby had finally been arrested and charged for unlawful drugging and rape of a woman many years ago. We were in the shower discussing why he needed to drug/rape women when most likely, as a wealthy celebrity, he most likely would have willing partners. My fWW had an experience where she was unknowingly drugged/SA by an OM once. For years prior she had a sexual relationship with him, so why would he need to drug her one night when she was willing? I pointed out the similarities with Bill Cosby and asked her why do these men do this? She said it was because they are narcissists and want total control over a woman, even she they are willing partners. Then she proceeded to get angry that I was even talking about an old relationship, because it makes her feel bad to talk about it.
> ...




Your posts remind me of women who go back to their physically abusive SO, yet run back to complain and vent to their friends when the abuse eventually happens again.

The last para entirely exposes you. I can't recollect but there is a word for such imaginary/delayed retorts that only happen in the mind and feeling good about it.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I broke the cardinal rule for R-never agree to R without having the complete truth. I only learned most (I say most because you never get 100%) of the story 6 months ago. I then contacted nearly all parties involved to verify and understand what happened.
After rereading my post in this thread and others, it's clear that I am rethinking my decision to R back in 2006.
We both are in counseling but their help is limited to what I will accept.


----------



## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

You need to sit her down, get a 100% written timeline and then follow it up with an (unannounced) poly. Staple divorce papers to the back of the poly appointment. Once you get the timeline there are no do-overs.

This not-knowing is going to freaking kill you man. I promise you that you'll never be whole.

The amount of disrespect that she is showing someone that she should be helping heal (given it was her actions, after all) is staggering. Personally, it would be a non-starter for me no matter when she told me about it initially.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

There is no law that I know of, anywhere, that says you cannot change your mind about R. You may have been okay with it initially back in 2006, but hindsight is indeed 20/20. 

...10/10 in your case I would say.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Maj, you're on the S in M topic talking about your old lady sleeping nude, never turning you down and apparently bragging about being the luckiest husband in the world. 
Look Dawg, you'll never know if you're getting the "whole truth" or not. Besides, what good is it going to do you. The bottom line is she if she didn't enjoy her erotic meetups with these guys or she wouldn't have done it. If you want the truth about what she did, watch a few pron movies. She turned these guys every way but loose and screwed them nine ways to Sunday multiple times. What more do you need to know. 
You're clearly having buyer's remorse my man but at the same time she's putting something on you Ajax won't take off. You need to make up your mind whether your keeping the rig or return it for a refund.


----------



## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

MAJDEATH said:


> *I broke the cardinal rule for R-never agree to R without having the complete truth. I only learned most (I say most because you never get 100%) of the story 6 months ago.* I then contacted nearly all parties involved to verify and understand what happened.
> After rereading my post in this thread and others, *it's clear that I am rethinking my decision to R back in 2006.*
> We both are in counseling but their help is limited to what I will accept.


M,

Don't beat yourself up on near DD decisions and expectations. Very few BS have the "tools" and experience to navigate the confusion of being cheated on. 

How many of us have said/thought _"if only I had found TAM a year prior to DD."_ Hindsight and all...

I'm 6+ years into R with my WW. It was bad, real bad. I made a lot of mistakes pre/post DD that are TAM 101. My advice to someone in R, very little... 

Accept that there will always be more than you will ever know and the corollary... R is a daily, conscience decision for the BS.


----------



## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Majdeath- I am always rooting for you to find peace with or without your wife. Relationships are complicated and the longer they last the more entangled the emotions are. The deeper the connection is, whether for good or bad its deep and difficult.You are making the right decisions for yourself as you go along- things may get better or worse and you will make new decisions based on those events….

Have you read "Codependent No More"? I think you would find yourself on many pages. You can google the main points and get the drift of where you fit in and what you can do to help yourself feel more whole.


----------



## CH (May 18, 2010)

Looks like you're looking for the final nail in the coffin, all details to make your final decision. As Bandit stated you're pushing for something here.

And when they ask why do you keep asking, tell them

If you didn't cheat, I wouldn't have to ask. That usually shuts them up pretty quit.

Will you ever get 100%, NOPE. There will be little things that might get left out to either lessen the damage or simply because we didn't find it an important detail.

BTW, alot of BS that actually get close to 100% of all details, the marriage usually won't work out. Now the mind movies are reality. Prior to knowing what really happened you're going crazy with what could have happened BUT it's the maybe it didn't happen part that keeps you there. But once you discover all....game over for most people.


----------



## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Majdeath,
I like to point out you last DDay was just --what about 6 months ago of these old affair(s), 

so essentially you are still fairly new in this process, which most say it takes 2 to 5 years to get through.

where as, she is way past this and it is old news to her.

that is why trickle truth/minimizing is so damaging, it seems to keep resetting the clock on the recovery process for the betrayed spouse.

with any new information it brings on more questions.


----------



## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

I asked over and over again...the same questions...why?...because every day I got a different answer...some totally opposite from her last answer...there was no consistency with any of her responses. So, this just validated how much was lying or how our issues meant so little to her.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Like others have stated, I am comparing her truthful answers to my perceptions as to what I thought was occurring at the time. Why she was cold and uncaring at certain times but also warm and loving at other times. Her priorities and motivations kept changing, and now the picture is getting clear. 
There were emotional elements involved, physical elements involved, using others to have your needs met, and being used as well. The fog of "fabricated love and care" during the As was also at play.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

By talking to others involved in the As (spouses, mutual friends, family members, co-workers, and the OM themselves), I have confirmed her answers as facts. With the exception of a certain OM, who I don't think I would be able to maintain objective composure with. Also based on my perceptions and descriptions by others, he probably wouldn't be truthful anyway and would cause more harm than good. But he is the key OM-he was involved with my fWW for 3 yrs. I did speak with his wife but the key answers really need to come from him. Maybe thru an intermediary I could prepare some written questions and see if he would provide some answers. While the wife knows about the A, he probably did TT with her, and doesn't want all the details to get out. I tried to inform her of all that I knew, but she did not want to hear most of it and blamed herself for what happened.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> One thing that annoys me, is when I occasionally ask questions about past infidelity situations (maybe about once every 3 weeks or so, but less frequently since Dday 6 months ago), I am starting to get some push-back from the W. Like "why can't we move on", and "haven't I answered all those questions already?" She says it "makes her feel bad when I bring it up again."
> I remind her of our agreement for full disclosure, and that for her it was 12 yrs ago, and for me 6 months since learning the truth.
> 
> Example: yesterday on the shower radio news it was reported that Bill Cosby had finally been arrested and charged for unlawful drugging and rape of a woman many years ago. We were in the shower discussing why he needed to drug/rape women when most likely, as a wealthy celebrity, he most likely would have willing partners. My fWW had an experience where she was unknowingly drugged/SA by an OM once. For years prior she had a sexual relationship with him, so why would he need to drug her one night when she was willing? I pointed out the similarities with Bill Cosby and asked her why do these men do this? She said it was because they are narcissists and want total control over a woman, even she they are willing partners. Then she proceeded to get angry that I was even talking about an old relationship, because it makes her feel bad to talk about it.
> ...


Your wife is REMORSELESS. Here is the irony....

She has absolutely no respect for you because you gave her another chance.

Also, her inconvenience is more important than your pain and suffering.

I'm sorry you don't think you can do better. Hell, alone would be better than this.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Your wife is REMORSELESS.


To me hearing a caught cheater acting remorseful is kinda like a drunk surviving a car wreck. They ain't sorry they were driving drunk. They are just glad they didn't get killed.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Well, it has been over a month since I have asked any infidelity related questions. I wasn't really keeping track until I reread this thread and remembered the date. 
I was advised by my IC that it is common for the time frame between questions to increase for the first 2 yrs after DDay. Occasional triggers may pop up, but generally progress is being made. She also indicated it may take from 2-5 yrs to process all the information and apply it to make your M better.
Unfortunately I am reconsidering the R, which was based on incomplete information.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This is why it's a deal breaker for my fiance and me. The relationship will never be the same after infidelity, and while we would forgive, forgetting would be hard to do. And trusting would be harder to do. I'm a pretty trusting person and so is he, so if that trust was broken, it would be hard to repair. I hope you find peace about it all.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Horizon said:


> It never goes away - triggers everywhere. You just have more distance with time and less frequent hurt - but when your triggering it hurts like the first time (sometimes). I got the same lines early on. A classic was when she was giving me some detail and I became really angry. Yes I had asked for the detail, I did it to myself, but I am entitled to know it all. For my ex WS it was the perfect excuse later on - "Well I'm not talking about that, you become so angry...."
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Right, so it becomes your problem and not her's. Women typically try to make little of their wrongs and try to blame them on you. My wife does that all the time. Pisses me off!


----------



## Grogmiester (Nov 23, 2015)

R is hard enough. R without full disclosure is next to impossible. Every time you find out something you didn't know you're back to square 1. It's like D day all ove again.


----------



## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> Women typically try to make little of their wrongs and try to blame them on you. My wife does that all the time. Pisses me off!



Are you trying to implay that men 'typically' don't do the same?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

adriana said:


> Are you trying to implay that men 'typically' don't do the same?


I think he is just mad at his wife but I thought the same thing.

Male cheaters suck wad too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"Why do you keep asking questions about it?"

Because I still can't believe that you would do it to me."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

adriana said:


> Are you trying to implay that men 'typically' don't do the same?


For the most part, yes. I think men more likely justify what they did rather than try blaming someone else or make little of what they did...just my observations


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You know, if my hubby had had that attitude only 6 months out, we would NOT be together now, almost 6 years out. There are STILL times when I trigger, and he consoles me and apologizes for what he did. They happen maybe every 6-12 months, but when they do he does what he should - admit he did something horrible (again) and promise (again) to never do it again and ask me (again) what I need him to do for me and then DO it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> This is why it's a deal breaker for my fiance and me. The relationship will never be the same after infidelity, and while we would forgive, forgetting would be hard to do. And trusting would be harder to do. I'm a pretty trusting person and so is he, so if that trust was broken, it would be hard to repair. I hope you find peace about it all.


I hope you are correct and never have to experience infidelity, but many a poster has said this only to reconcile when it occurs.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> I understand the need to ask questions. It like you have to piece together your life (not hers) over that period to find out what was real, what was a lie, when were you being manipulated. You need to make sense of your personal story. Without honest answers, there is a giant hole.
> 
> "All sorrows can be borne if you put them into a story or tell a story about them."-Karen Blixen


I think this is right on. My mom had to do this with my dad. She needed to know what was real and what wasn't.

I also think that the cheater really needs to verbalize what terrible things they did to actually get it. Not so much as a punishment but so they can actually "hear" how silly and stupid they were. "I thought she was my soul mate.", "He told me he loved me.", "I lied, I really didn't go to mall, I went to her house instead." When they have to say what they did or felt it takes all the romance, (unicorn pooping rainbows), out of it.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I hope you are correct and never have to experience infidelity, but many a poster has said this only to reconcile when it occurs.


I know, and understand the reasoning at times. But, it won't be me. I don't see how I'd ever be able to trust again after that, and even if the person was truly repentant and changed his ways, it would be unfair to stay resentful, which I would be.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Well, it has been over a month since I have asked any infidelity related questions. I wasn't really keeping track until I reread this thread and remembered the date.
> I was advised by my IC that it is common for the time frame between questions to increase for the first 2 yrs after DDay. Occasional triggers may pop up, but generally progress is being made. She also indicated it may take from 2-5 yrs to process all the information and apply it to make your M better.
> Unfortunately I am reconsidering the R, which was based on incomplete information.


You definitely seem to have a lot strong unresolved emotions about her affair. It comes through in many of your posts. That's only natural until you have all the details you need and the time it takes to process that information. 

She may have told you once (or thought she did). But that doesn't mean you understood it, or retained it. A trigger will bring those feelings back, and that is consequence you are forced to bear. If she really wants R to work, she has to be willing to bear it with you. Sounds like she is hoping you'll start rugsweeping your emotions. Try not to let that happen. 

If you are yelling at her or taking out anger in a destructive way, then you need to check yourself. But if you are being patient and kind in your inquiries, she needs to indulge it. Even if it causes her pain to relieve her mistakes.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> I know, and understand the reasoning at times. But, it won't be me. I don't see how I'd ever be able to trust again after that, and even if the person was truly repentant and changed his ways, it would be unfair to stay resentful, which I would be.


Was I wounded by my wife's affair? Undoubtedly. 

Did I resent my wife? No, I didn't.


----------



## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> For the most part, yes. I think men more likely justify what they did rather than try blaming someone else or make little of what they did...just my observations



Interesting theory but completely false.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

No one in a relationship is blameless when infidelity occurs.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MAJ, you two still in therapy? That's where to bring up the 'stop bringing this up' stuff.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> No one in a relationship is blameless when infidelity occurs.


I think no one in a relationship is blameless for the problems in that relationship. 

When it comes to infidelity, it was one party in the relationship who made that choice. 

The wayward needs to figure out why they made that choice. They need to be honest with themselves, this is sometimes impossible. Without understanding, they risk repeating that choice. They need to decide if the damaged relationship they are in can be repaired, and if they want to try and repair it. Sometimes the wayward sticks around out of obligation or guilt/shame. But their heart really isn't in it. 

The betrayed needs to figure out if they can ever get over the hurt. If the relationship can be repaired and if they want to try and repair it. The betrayed has the added issue of figuring out how likely the wayward is to cheat again and if that risk is worth taking. 

Until the betrayed understands the wayward and the conditions around act of infidelity, they have anxiety that the infidelity might repeat. The condition of the relationship is an important factor. But it's really only one. You can have a perfect relationship, there are people in the world who will still cheat on it.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MAJDEATH said:


> No one in a relationship is blameless when infidelity occurs.


If you've both cheated, then sure.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> For the most part, yes. I think men more likely justify what they did rather than try blaming someone else or make little of what they did...just my observations


Er... isn't that more or less the same thing?


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Acoa said:


> *I think no one in a relationship is blameless for the problems in that relationship.*
> 
> When it comes to infidelity, it was one party in the relationship who made that choice.
> 
> ...


Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.


Doesn't your partner have the same obligation to you? Certainly cheating would reasonably be expected to empty the love tank. 

I agree that being married to a self serving person who only thought of themselves would be mentally draining. Heck, I was married to one. I can see where that would would increase the desire to get your bucket filled elsewhere. But shouldn't you end the current relationship first? Especially if you vowed to remain faithful and forsake all others? 

Allowing the wayward to put the blame on the problems in the relationship is just a way to control the betrayed. "If you would have only done this, I wouldn't have to have sex with other people". Doesn't that seem manipulative?


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Of the successful marriages I have seen, they aren’t struggle-free, but they aren’t mentally exhausting like some of you seem to be involved in. Marriage shouldn’t consume your life in a negative way, causing you to feel badly about yourself, and distraught 24/7. There are ups and downs in ALL types of relationships…even friendships, but if you are constantly feeling stressed out, depressed and your quality of life is being downgraded by another person…time to reassess if this is the right person to keep around in your life.


----------



## adriana (Dec 21, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Marriage shouldn’t consume your life in a negative way, causing you to feel badly about yourself, and distraught 24/7. There are ups and downs in ALL types of relationships…even friendships, but if you are constantly feeling stressed out, depressed and your quality of life is being downgraded by another person…time to reassess if this is the right person to keep around in your life.



Absolutely!


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great.


Very few women will cheat if the relationship is great. The problem many betrayed men have is that they believe if the relationship is good for them, and that they "love her so much", the relationship is outstanding for their wives. Their wives are often demonstrating otherwise. 
If you don't believe it, talk to the girls and see what they say. I'll acquiesce to what they say. I may learn something in my old age.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Of the successful marriages I have seen, they aren’t struggle-free, but they aren’t mentally exhausting like some of you seem to be involved in. Marriage shouldn’t consume your life in a negative way, causing you to feel badly about yourself, and distraught 24/7. There are ups and downs in ALL types of relationships…even friendships, but if you are constantly feeling stressed out, depressed and your quality of life is being downgraded by another person…time to reassess if this is the right person to keep around in your life.


Hear, hear. Some folks wade around in shyt for years hoping it going to turn into something even tolerable. You've got better odds with the Powerball lottery.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> No one in a relationship is blameless when infidelity occurs.


Some people are utterly blameless. 

So when the cheating occurs they are hurt and utterly bewildered.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.


I can think of one woman who was a perfect wife.

Yet her idiot husband cheated on her with a woman who was no where near as pretty as his wife and who also had an ugly soul.

She set out to seduce him by "accidentally" bumping into him and the like.

He was like a lamb to the slaughter.


----------



## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.


Ok, sounds like you have it all figured out so why don't you just get over it already? That's not fair at all, is it? If somehow you weren't "filling your partner's love tank" why didn't you know? Why didn't she tell you? 

Yeah - both parties have a role in the decline of their marriage. I just don't think a BS should be talking about this while they are still considering whether R is a mistake or not. Nothing is going to "pardon" the WS so focusing on the affair until BS is truly ready to decide on R or D is not just appropriate, it's imperative. Moving into R before this is resolved is just a form of rugsweeping.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

ThePheonix said:


> Hear, hear. Some folks wade around in shyt for years hoping it going to turn into something even tolerable. You've got better odds with the Powerball lottery.


Often times, people who are cheated on, have grown conditioned to believing that if only they had said the right things, or done the right things, or made more money, or looked better...their spouse wouldn't have cheated. Truth is, everyone has choices...and if you really don't love your spouse anymore, or are just not 'into them' anymore...TELL HIM/HER. Don't cultivate an affair. 

The problem is that the betrayed person in many cases doesn't believe they can have better. There are people out there who are hot, and successful, and smart, and kind, and generous, and fit, and spiritual...who are also faithful and loyal to their mates. Trying to turn your wayward spouse into one of those people, is like putting a square peg into a round hole...probably impossible. Counselors aren't magicians. 

Life is so short...to spend it consumed with an unhealthy relationship that you can't accept is forever going to be unhealthy... just seems like a waste. No disrespect to anyone, it's just how I feel.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.
> ...


So by your logic, if he was "seduced" without any fault of his own, then the fault must lay with the W? I would say he wanted to, which circles back to why would he want to if there were no problems from the W. 
Now granted, he may not have communicated what the problem was, but she had a part.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

drifter777 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.
> ...


I think I have made it clear in previous posts the mistakes I made, but have learned from. Communication is the key, and I do ask often if I am filling her love tank or is something missing? Just look at my signature quote.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. As a spouse, I believe you have an obligation to determine what it takes to fill your partner's love tank, then actually engage those behaviors while refraining from behaviors that unload the love tank. Other factors come into play as well, like toxic friends. Once again, the spouse has a role in identifying a toxic friend and assisting in the filtering/removal process if necessary.


Dr. Harley huh.

Marriage advice solid. Infidelity advice, not so much.

Cheating has to do with the cheater, not the betrayed.

Same as how beating your wife was partially her fault right?

Moronic thought process to blame the victim for the crime.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> So by your logic, if he was "seduced" without any fault of his own, then the fault must lay with the W? I would say he wanted to, which circles back to why would he want to if there were no problems from the W.
> Now granted, he may not have communicated what the problem was, but she had a part.


That just about the biggest crock of sh!t I've ever heard on this board. As far as your marriage is concerned, there's simply no blame, big or small, you're not willing to assume to justify her actions.

Hell, no wonder she has had, what?...six OMs that we know of? You all but give her your blessings!

Wow


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Dr. Harley huh.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dr. H would never say that crap. Not even close to it.


----------



## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> So by your logic, if he was "seduced" without any fault of his own, then the fault must lay with the W? I would say he wanted to, which circles back to *why would he want to if there were no problems from the W. *
> Now granted, he may not have communicated what the problem was, but she had a part.


Because he thought he could get away with it. Opportunity presented itself and he took it. The End.



MAJDEATH said:


> Not sure how often people cheat when the relationship is great. *All parties play a role in getting to the point of stepping out. *


This is another simple one: You need two people to have a relationship. You need two people for one of them to cheat on the other. The "role" the betrayed played was existing.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> So by your logic, if he was "seduced" without any fault of his own, then the fault must lay with the W? I would say he wanted to, which circles back to why would he want to if there were no problems from the W.
> Now granted, he may not have communicated what the problem was, but she had a part.


Are you really this ignorant?

You haven't figured out that some people just suck and do shytty things?

Extremely flawed reasoning.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

3putt said:


> Dr. H would never say that crap. Not even close to it.


I've actually got quotes underlined in his book Surviving an Affair where he clearly blames the betrayed husband for one of the worst betrayals I have ever heard of.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I've actually got quotes underlined in his book Surviving an Affair where he clearly blames the betrayed husband for one of the worst betrayals I have ever heard of.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, I have that book as well, and if you go back and look you'll see him saying that about the state of the marriage that set up the conditions for it, but not the affair itself. He's always been very adamant about that.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

3putt said:


> Oh, I have that book as well, and if you go back and look you'll see him saying that about the state of the marriage that set up the conditions for it, but not the affair itself. He's always been very adamant about that.


I'll double check but he was pretty straight about blaming the husband.

I know you like Harley and I do on marriage advice but hate his view on infidelity, except exposure. He kills it about exposure!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I'll double check but he was pretty straight about blaming the husband.
> 
> I know you like Harley and I do on marriage advice but hate his view on infidelity, except exposure. He kills it about exposure!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hey, I think we pretty much feel the same way about him. I don't like 95% of his advice on how to approach infidelity either (exposure the 5% of course), but as you said, his recovery and marriage advice is good.....gold actually.


----------



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Perhaps blame is not the correct word. Both partners have a responsibility to affect the success of the M.


----------



## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps blame is not the correct word. Both partners have a responsibility to affect the success of the M.


I see a lot of stuff on the net about dealing with infidelity and one common theme I see is to ask yourself what YOU did to contribute to the spouses infidelity. 

And I do see a theme here where the waywards do try to blame their spouse. I did that in the beginning myself.

I no longer agree with that. 

What I DO agree with is that there ARE things a betrayed spouse can do to make a wayward think their only option is cheating. Be that neglect, lack of intimacy, abuse, etc. When a wayward isn't happy, they may look elsewhere. Maybe not intentionally, but they do it. And they do it a lot of times out of not being happy.

This does NOT justify an affair! This just gives the wayward justification in their OWN mind. 

What I've learned here most is that I always had a choice. No matter how bad **** got at home, I had a choice. I had a choice to leave, I had a choice to go to counseling. I had a choice to lay the hammer down and refuse to be walked on. I had many choices to stop the unhappiness that did not involve cheating.

Instead, I chose to cheat. That is where it becomes the waywards fault and not the betrayed.

The betrayed has a choice to be an amazing spouse, to fix the broken things, to talk it out.

But it always comes back to the wayward making the ultimate choice of cheat or leave.

That is why it is solely the waywards fault.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps blame is not the correct word. Both partners have a responsibility to affect the success of the M.


Infidelity takes means, opportunity and motive. 

Means - Cyber, EA or PA
Opportunity - Anytime they can elude detection
Motive - This one has a wide range of answers

Of these 'conditions' required for cheating, the betrayed at most has some influence on motive (depending on the wayward's motive). Most of the time that motive is claimed after the fact in a contrived way for the wayward to shift some blame away. 

One really needs to deal with the boundary and moral issues of why the wayward took that opportunity to do what they did. One can always invent a motive that fits the situation. But the reality is, the motive could simply be that they wanted to.


----------



## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps blame is not the correct word. Both partners have a responsibility to affect the success of the M.


You do realize that the success of the marriage is a totally separate thing from the cheating, right?

Asking yourself how you contributed to your spouse cheating is NOT the same as asking yourself what you did to contribute to the fact your marriage sucked.

Marriage sucks does NOT = cheating. In order to make it = cheating, the cheater - and ONLY the cheater - makes a choice to make it that way.

Both spouses have to commit to making the marriage as good as it can be. But if one falters, that in no way gives the other permission to cheat.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Er... isn't that more or less the same thing?


not really...justifying what you did is not the same as trying to blame someone else for it.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> I see a lot of stuff on the net about dealing with infidelity and one common theme I see is to ask yourself what YOU did to contribute to the spouses infidelity.
> 
> And I do see a theme here where the waywards do try to blame their spouse. I did that in the beginning myself.
> 
> ...


I wish their were more of you on this forum. 

Please keep contributing!


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

jb02157 said:


> not really...justifying what you did is not the same as trying to blame someone else for it.


In the end they're more or less the same. The degree to which that's true is debatable, but here's the bottom line -- 

Both are attempted at avoiding, deflecting, minimizing, and/or mitigating one's accountability for one's on transgression.


----------

