# Need some perspective here...



## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

I've been lurking for a while and I've come to really value all the points of view from everyone around here. I need some outside perspective on something here:

WW and I have been married 5.5 years (involved for 12+). Our relationship grew from lovers, to best friends, to partners and confidants. We really do care very deeply for each other.

Flash forward:
About 5 weeks ago I exposed a PA (it devastated me) between my WW and her co-worker (who happens to also be a co-owner of her business and one of my close friends). We were really stuck in limbo for 5 weeks - WW was deep in "the fog" - it was very difficult on me (not sleeping, lost 8 pounds, etc.), until Saturday (I learned they started an EA underground after I exposed the PA) when, after reading and re-reading all the different stories and advice here - my alpha came out. I finally stood up for myself, reclaimed my self-respect and my voice in our relationship and threatened to walk away from her forever, plain and simple, because I was no longer going to stand for being disrespected (I usually had been mostly beta in our relationship, with maybe a touch of omega; rarely alpha) and be in a three-person marriage. I just wasn't going to tolerate any of this anymore - I mean I leaned into her real hard that night and put the whole relationship and our friendship on the line.

It seemed to bust her out of her fog. Now she's doing and saying things that she's never done or said before (as best I can remember) over the course of our relationship. She's also since been reading the book After The Affair, which she says has really helped her get clarity into what needs to be done. Today she sent me a valentine's day card (I never got one from her before), and she also apparently talked to the AP (who works in the office next to her), and as far as I can tell (I'll find out more tonight) set him straight about the EA that had been continuing since I exposed the PA about five weeks ago. She's even saying how devastated she would be if I was not in her life.

I know you guys don't yet have all the details of our lengthy history together, but just from this surface description, what do you think? I've heard the words (which I discount to some degree because I can't trust them), but I'm seeing real actions too. Temporary reaction to try to draw me back in to keep cakeeating, or the start down a recovery path? I know there is still an enormous amount of work to be done in front of us to get to real recovery.

Thanks in advance for your insight and advice about this?


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

My first thought is that as long as she has ANY contact with the OM their affair will never be over and you will always be in a three way marriage. You can never recover your marriage with him in the picture.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> My first thought is that as long as she has ANY contact with the OM their affair will never be over and you will always be in a three way marriage. You can never recover your marriage with him in the picture.


This is very true. She will back slide on a regular basis.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

She changes jobs or you lose your marriage, take your pick.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> She changes jobs or you lose your marriage, take your pick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Sorry,it's not logical to think it went from PA to EA,even without their daily proximity to one another.More likely still PA.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

All I can say is that yes you can be snapped out of a fog, yes you can realize what a mistake you've made, and yes you can repair the damage. See my stories.
If she is truly sorry and over him, it may work for the two of you. If she is not over him and is just blowing smoke up your butt, you'll find out soon enough.
Trust, but verify.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

What's the background to all of this? why did she cheat in the first place?


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## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

I guess I'd be concerned about the "talked to the AP and set him straight" part.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

TBT said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Sorry,it's not logical to think it went from PA to EA,even without their daily proximity to one another.More likely still PA.


I think going from PA to EA/PA can happen. There was physical attraction, so the f*cked in the office for awhile, then later, feelings developed. Not sure how that happens and the f*cking stops though. 

This is a big mess. His WW and the OM own a business together. Not easy to just "get another job". There will have to be a change in corporate structure, a buyout, etc. It won't be easy. But that said, there's no way they can continue to run a business together after this, AND have the marriage stay intact. NO. F*CKING. WAY.

This one hits home because my brother in law owns a business with a female partner. They are both married. Also my best friend owns a business with a female partner. Both married. Nothing has happened in either of their cases, but geez....


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Did your punch the other guy in the face atleast once?

Also




> We really do care very deeply for each other.


:rofl::lol:

You are in big denial. get out before you have kids with her. Does your friend have a wife? tell her.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> I think going from PA to EA/PA can happen. There was physical attraction, so the f*cked in the office for awhile, then later, feelings developed. Not sure how that happens and the f*cking stops though.


:iagree:

Thanks.You did a better job of clarifying the point I was trying to make.I couldn't see it going from Pa to strictly EA,but for some reason the husband can.:scratchhead:


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

Beowulf said:


> My first thought is that as long as she has ANY contact with the OM their affair will never be over and you will always be in a three way marriage. You can never recover your marriage with him in the picture.


Beowulf, I agree with you. This is a point I was planning on addressing with her. The affair environment has to change if there is any chance of reconciliation. I plan on talking to her about this ASAP. Getting him off the island is harder though because it requires the agreement of others to do it. My WW basically is the rainmaker but it is a small group of people and the others rely on her for their $$$. The others don't know about the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> She changes jobs or you lose your marriage, take your pick.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, this is something that I know has to happen. Either he goes or she goes. It is the only real way to move forward. I agree with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

TBT said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Sorry,it's not logical to think it went from PA to EA,even without their daily proximity to one another.More likely still PA.


That is something I've considered. I don't trust what I hear right now. She has said that she cut off the PA in January, but it would be easy for them to have continued it given their work scenario.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

Unsure in Seattle said:


> I guess I'd be concerned about the "talked to the AP and set him straight" part.


This just happened today so I'm going to find out (as best I can) what happened today (and I'll only believe some of it), but it will provide a segue into the more fundamental point, like their break needs to be unequivocal and final. She cannot give him any hope or leave the door open to him.**She must cut off all contact outside work. *If our marriage has any chance to succeed, she needs to be clear with him that it is over and there is no chance of restarting. *It's not just the affair that she has to end but the relationship in total. *No more friendship, no more texts or emails, no more phone calls, no more lunches or personal interactions.* She must do everything that she can to remove herself from the situation.* She never allows herself to be alone with him again.* Never.* She does everything possible to not see him or engage in a relationship of any sort.* She does not allow for temptation.* She does not keep it going in her heart.* It is over.* Done.* Finished.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Does your friend have a wife? tell her.


Yeah. He is married with an 11 month old baby. I've been seriously considering telling her...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Tell your wife to sell her share to the others and get out of the business. If she balks, tell her she has a certain amount of time to do so or you will expose the affair to all. 

See how she reacts. If she hits the ceiling and refuses, you have your answer.

I think she and the OM are playing you.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

> Yeah. He is married with an 11 month old baby. I've been seriously considering telling her...


To not do so is cruel and immoral.

Tell your wife you are going to inform the OMW. If she is as devoted to reconcilliation as you say, then she will abide by your decision and face the consequences. If she begs you not to or gets mad, then she is defending the OM and you will know where her loyalty lies. 

The OM's wife will most likely blow the lid off the whole thing and make it an easy decision for the other shareholders of the business.


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Tell your wife to sell her share to the others and get out of the business. If she balks, tell her she has a certain amount of time to do so or you will expose the affair to all.
> 
> See how she reacts. If she hits the ceiling and refuses, you have your answer.


Agreed. I have already been considering this.



bandit.45 said:


> I think she and the OM are playing you.


This is something that is on my mind which is why I'm leaning hard towards telling the OMW and the other co-workers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> To not do so is cruel and immoral.
> 
> Tell your wife you are going to inform the OMW. If she is as devoted to reconcilliation as you say, then she will abide by your decision and face the consequences. If she begs you not to or gets mad, then she is defending the OM and you will know where her loyalty lies.
> 
> The OM's wife will most likely blow the lid off the whole thing and make it an easy decision for the other shareholders of the business.


This has been my thought as well. When I exposed the PA she begged not to tell the OMW and I foolishly didn't because I wasn't thinking straight. But after I uncovered the ongoing EA evidence I've been in a much stronger mental state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

When I told the OMW what he and my wife were doing, she took it very well. She was different in that her two daughters are older, but she told me that she suspected that something was amiss with her husband for a long time. 

Its sucked to have to do it, but I can sleep better knowing that I went through with it and helped an innocent person who was being lied to and manipulated. 

If your wife was as remorseful as you say she is, she would have called the OMW herself and admitted to what she did. The fact that she begged you not to tell was a defense response to protect her lover. 

She's playing you. Call the OMW tonight.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Expose. If you don't then the OM faces no consequences for his actions and his wife will continue to live a life of lies with the POS. There is also the added incentive that he will throw your wife under the bus in order to save his marriage - something very typical of OM. This will PO your wife because despite it having been a PA, there is more than likely some feelings involved, even if they were only superficial.


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> If your wife was as remorseful as you say she is, she would have called the OMW herself and admitted to what she did. The fact that she begged you not to tell was a defense response to protect her lover.


Agreed. In January she was very much in the fog. I'm not surprised that she was trying to protect OM then. 

Like you say, what I need to find out right now is whether and to what extent she still will try to protect OM now - that would be immediately telling.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> When I told the OMW what he and my wife were doing, she took it very well. She was different in that her two daughters are older, but she told me that she suspected that something was amiss with her husband for a long time.
> 
> Its sucked to have to do it, but I can sleep better knowing that I went through with it and helped an innocent person who was being lied to and manipulated.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

The OMW is as injured as you, without her knowing she is continuing with a POS who will continue to hurt her.


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## Whitesnake (Feb 9, 2012)

morituri said:


> Expose. If you don't then the OM faces no consequences for his actions and his wife will continue to live a life of lies with the POS. There is also the added incentive that he will throw your wife under the bus in order to save his marriage - something very typical of OM. This will PO your wife because despite it having been a PA, there is more than likely some feelings involved, even if they were only superficial.


This is why I have been leaning towards telling her. Previously I struggled with it because I didn't want to selfishly put someone innocent, let alone a new mom struggling with raising a baby, through the emotional pain and anguish I have been going through. I have really struggled with this for a long time. Knowing the hurt that exposure will cause weighs heavily on me. I know her. She will not take it as well as the woman did in Bandit's case.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't think you have any chance at repairing your marriage while the OM and your wife have any contact at all. No way for you to recover while she still works with/near him.

They continued the affair (EA) after D-Day and she begged you not to tell OM's wife. She still has feeling for him and she is protecting him and the affair. Even while attempting reconciliation, wandering spouses do not flip a switch and forget about the affair partner that fast, it takes months, sometimes years for the feelings to fade. You are being played and gas-lighted.

OM's wife is being lied to and manipulated the same as are you. You need to contact her and tell her what you know. She is owed the truth, so she can make up her mind what she needs to do. You are not the cause of her pain, your wife and her husband are.

With only 5 years of marriage and already in a Physical Affair and no kids - I would run away from her as far and fast as possible. By the way - do you know how long the PA has gone on?

Reconciliation rarely works out - some do - most do not. Most attempted reconciliations fail sooner, because the spouses just cannot get over the lying and deception or latter, because the wandering spouse eventually enters another affair. 

Your wife has shown you her true self - get out while you can.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Whitesnake said:


> This is why I have been leaning towards telling her. Previously I struggled with it because I didn't want to selfishly put someone innocent, let alone a new mom struggling with raising a baby, through the emotional pain and anguish I have been going through. I have really struggled with this for a long time. Knowing the hurt that exposure will cause weighs heavily on me. I know her. She will not take it as well as the woman did in Bandit's case.


She is going to find out eventually. Office affairs rarely stay hidden forever. How do you think she will feel about you when she learns you knew about the affair and did not tell her? How will you feel knowing you let down a friend? By not telling her you are siding with the cheaters.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

She cannot be in any environment he is period.
Someone has to go.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LEANING! What the hell are you waiting for? You need two eyes on this. Get the OMW signed up to the cheater police, she will be your best bet in putting a leash on the OM.

Your wife will get pissed and protect him or she will own this crap and but her big girl panties on and deal with the consequences.

Please do your self and our marriage a favor by getting the support from the OMW. Two sets of eyes are better then one, plus it would be interesting to see if your WW can except this kind of consequence.

Do not jump into this, but inform the OMW that you are looking for her support in your marriage. Be prepared to some harsh words about your wife, the OMW will be in pain, just be informative and keep it short. Just like you it will take her time to swallow this info. Leave her your contact info and then it will be her choice to follow up. Even if she doesn't just planting that seed will give you that extra set of eyes that you need to make this affair as inconvienent as possible to restart/continue.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Whitesnake said:


> Yeah. He is married with an 11 month old baby. I've been seriously considering telling her...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tell her.

You want to see your wife and the OM split for good and real?

Tell the OMW, tell her now and offer any evidence you have for her review.

Now.

Edit:

She`s "begged" you not to tell the OMW.
Why? Have you thought why she would care about the OMW?

She doesn`t, she`s protecting her OM and she`s doing it at your expense.
She`s protecting him over you.

Tell the OMW now or you`re wife is going to take this underground


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My WS said they just kissed- her older brother (who is a pastor) told me that it was code for sex. He was right. She then told me they only had sex the first time and all the rest of the times they met they sat and talked about how bad they felt about what they did. Her brother told me - yea right- she is the first person in history to go backwards. He said, brother they had sex every time they met. He was right.

She needs to end it completely.

Facts:

1/3 of marriages survive this crap
Statistics go way up if the WS keeps answering questions without hesitation, defensiveness, and for as long as it takes and even if the questions are the same over and over again.
Statistics go way up if the WS is an open book (transparency).
Statistics go way up if the WS tells everything you need or want.

IF you want it to work out I hope she does the things you need her to do and even then it may prove too difficult for you.

Hoping for the best for you. Because this stuff sucks.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Whitesnake said:


> This is why I have been leaning towards telling her. Previously I struggled with it because I didn't want to selfishly put someone innocent, let alone a new mom struggling with raising a baby, through the emotional pain and anguish I have been going through. I have really struggled with this for a long time. Knowing the hurt that exposure will cause weighs heavily on me. I know her. She will not take it as well as the woman did in Bandit's case.


Read this carefully *you did not cause her husband to have an affair with your wife by giving him the green light - your wife did that.*

Her suffering is the direct result of her husband's and your wife's disrespect, selfishness and cruelty.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Tell your wife you are going to inform the OMW.


 Do not tell your wife first. Tell the OMW about the affair right now without warning to your wife. Only tell your wife after you have told the OMW. 



bandit.45 said:


> The OM's wife will most likely blow the lid off the whole thing and make it an easy decision for the other shareholders of the business.


:iagree::iagree::iagree: If the OMW does not immediately tell the other shareholders about the affair then you need to do it. Affairs are like vampires, they die in the open sunlight.

It is clear that you have not done enough to end the affair. It is still on going with your wife suffering no consequences. Exposure is a needed consequence. Also, your marriage is over if one of them does not leave the company immediately. As the main rainmaker, I doubt that she is making that much more money than she would if she just walked away and worked for someone else.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TRy said:


> Do not tell your wife first. Tell the OMW about the affair right now without warning to your wife. Only tell your wife after you have told the OMW.
> 
> :iagree::iagree::iagree: If the OMW does not immediately tell the other shareholders about the affair then you need to do it. Affairs are like vampires, they die in the open sunlight.
> 
> It is clear that you have not done enough to end the affair. It is still on going with your wife suffering no consequences. Exposure is a needed consequence. Also, your marriage is over if one of them does not leave the company immediately. As the main rainmaker, I doubt that she is making that much more money than she would if she just walked away and worked for someone else.


:iagree::iagree:


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed wouldn't you want the other spouse to tell you? It is cruel and unjust not telling the OM's wife. By the way has your wife and yourself been tested for STD's? Stand up for yourself and tell the OM's wife today. I think it is extremely telling that she was begging you not to tell the OM's wife. How sweet that she was still protecting him. How can you not see this?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

It's good that you've been lurking here and learning, that's better than what I did. With that said, others have given you great advice about exposure to the OMW and having NC with the OM. 

I really don't know how the affair can be killed without her changing jobs. Experience here has shown that as long as the WW/WH is still working with the affair partner, NC can never be established. And NC is essential for ending the affair. 

Then of course, there is the fishing in the months to come that you have to be on the lookout for, which means the tiring process of verification.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Can you imagine two people with full blow sexual affair can forget everything in a second and work together as if nothing happened, i dont think so.

They are playing with you, they are aware that they have to fix things at home before it is exposed to others and put their marriage in threat. she wanted the security of your marriage and also wanted to eat the cake too.

They may be afraid of OMW knowing it. so they know you should be kept quite for some time. It may be the reason for remorse and doing things which make you comfortable. don't buy this completely. Did she disclosed everything to you without TT? How long was this going on?

Your wife did the cruelest thing a human being can do to another one, without compassion, respect and love. Dont trust her doings, its only things done to control the damage. when everything is under control they will start it gain full blown.

Dont trust her words, its only said to you to save her and OM face. don't trust her actions completely, as she is good in acting she can very well handle the role of a loyal wife, she did this during the entire period of their affair without any guilt, without any clue for you. 

If there is no consequences why should they stop what they are getting.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey whitesnake---I have not read one line ANYWHERE, about you forcing NC, and you demanding your wife end her job/business

Other people depend on her, fine, does this guy co-own the business----then you step in and force a sale----she needs to be gone from any possible contact with him as of YESTERDAY. Stop making excuses, for sitting and doing nothing

I know you have threatened this, and threatended that---but in all actuality, you have really done nothing.

Why doesn't the other wife know----once again, you throw out crappy excuses, about how you don't want her to feel pain---believe me she already has problems----give her what she needs, knowledge so she can decide about her future, whether it will be with or w/out her cheating H., is not your problem, nor decision, it is her's, but she needs to have knowledge to be able to make it----also, she will help you keep an eye on your wife

Your next step is to look at your wife very hard, and 1st off, find out why she needed another man to take your place, and 2nd---why is she staying---cuz she really truly loves you, which I doubt, cuz if that were so, she wouldn't have destroyed you, and treated you as a sloppy 2nds, POS----or is it she just doesn't wanna face what a D. will bring into her life, and so she will do whatever is necessary to stay in this mge

You got a lot to do, and it is time you stopped doing nothing, throwing out excuses, and instead get yourself moving in whatever direction you intend to go.


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