# Wife of 5 years is "done"



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Wife of 5 years has checked out of the marriage and is "done". This coming on the heels of a 6 week reconciliation we were building on after discovering some old texts in her phone between her and another guy. These were 6-8 month old texts. She gave me full access to all her accounts, phone, email, facebook, etc. 

We go 6 weeks with things looking up, improving day by day. I go to KC for the weekend with my guy friends and notice on my security camera app that my wife came home at 2am with a female from work. I thought it was weird so i contacted one of her friends to inquire. That friend calls my wife saying I think my wife is a lesbian. My wife explodes at me and says no more. She cant take this crap anymore. Shes done. Turns out my wife isnt a lesbian. I handled that situation poorly. And that was the last straw for my marriage.

She has hired an attorney and gone marble cold towards me. I no longer have access to any of her accounts or passwords.

I have no reason to believe she is having an affair because I can account for her whereabouts 99.9% of the time.

We have a 2 year old daughter together. She is our world. 

Wife is not interested in working on our marriage in any way. Just wants out. All her friends and family are pushing her to leave also.

What can I do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Wife of 5 years has checked out of the marriage and is "done". This coming on the heels of a 6 week reconciliation we were building on after discovering some old texts in her phone between her and another guy. These were 6-8 month old texts. She gave me full access to all her accounts, phone, email, facebook, etc.
> 
> We go 6 weeks with things looking up, improving day by day. I go to KC for the weekend with my guy friends and notice on my security camera app that my wife came home at 2am with a female from work. I thought it was weird so i contacted one of her friends to inquire. That friend calls my wife saying I think my wife is a lesbian. My wife explodes at me and says no more. She cant take this crap anymore. Shes done. Turns out my wife isnt a lesbian. I handled that situation poorly. And that was the last straw for my marriage.
> 
> ...


My best advice to you is to let her go. 

Start the 180 now and live by it. 

Do not beg or plead for another chance.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ButtPunch said:


> My best advice to you is to let her go.
> 
> Start the 180 now and live by it.
> 
> Do not beg or plead for another chance.


Yep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Last night we had a long convo that consisted of her telling me how bad she has had it for 5 years of marriage, how miserable she has been, how she has lost herself in the process, how she just wants to put this all behind her and pick up the pieces and move on with her life. She feels like Im never going to change.
She feels like she has given all she has to give. She feels like she is trapped in a marriage that she doesnt want.

I listened to all of this with a calm demeanor, eye contact, and validation. I told her I understand how she feels and I am sorry for what I have done to make her feel that way. Had I known she was struggling all along I would have been in the trenches with her working on the marriage. She took it all upon herself and finally gave up. 

She changed the subject to custody and what she wants out of a divorce. I told her I am hurt that our daughter will spend 16 years living in a broken home. She said it doesnt have to be that way, and that she wants custody of our kid so she can have one home, and I get all the visitation that I want. Then she broke down saying her biggest fear is that I will take our daughter away from her. I told her I have no intention of any such thing, and that if it were to come to a divorce, the only fair way to go about it is joint 50/50 custody. She broke down again and said she couldnt handle only having our daughter half the time and it wasnt even an option for her. My atty this morning told me otherwise. Based on my work schedule and hers, my ability to care for her and provide for her vs my wifes, and the history we have of sharing the parental role, 50/50 is where it will end up. She is chasing a dream. 

So that showed me some insight as to one avenue that might cause her to reconsider....and to bring my wife back to reality. She needs to face giving up half of our daughters childhood as the price to pay for her walking away from the marriage. Is it really worth it? This is the struggle I have faced myself. I have 100 reasons to leave, but i owe it to my daughter to work things out with her mom raise her in a happy home with two loving parents.

Any pointers on how to play this? I intend to contest and fight this divorce all the way to the end either way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I appreciate the quick replies! I dont think my wife is currently cheating or having an affair. I think she considered it a while back based on the texts I read. But i have no reason to belive she is cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Last night we had a long convo that consisted of her telling me how bad she has had it for 5 years of marriage, how miserable she has been, how she has lost herself in the process, how she just wants to put this all behind her and pick up the pieces and move on with her life. She feels like Im never going to change.
> She feels like she has given all she has to give. She feels like she is trapped in a marriage that she doesnt want.
> 
> I listened to all of this with a calm demeanor, eye contact, and validation. I told her I understand how she feels and I am sorry for what I have done to make her feel that way. Had I known she was struggling all along I would have been in the trenches with her working on the marriage. She took it all upon herself and finally gave up.
> ...


You handled it good. Let her know that you will fight for your rightful time with your daughter. 

Honestly....I believe she is still cheating. I wouldn't have anymore relationship discussions with her. Focus on you and be the best Dad you can be. Find the 180 list and begin to emotionally detach from her.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I appreciate the quick replies! I dont think my wife is currently cheating or having an affair. I think she considered it a while back based on the texts I read. But i have no reason to belive she is cheating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It doesn't matter....she's checked out.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

There is more to the story. Im typing as fast as I can. Thank you for the wuick replies. I will read up on the 180.

After our talk last night I retired to the guest bedroom with our daughter to sleep. My mind was racing and i had a weak moment. I sent her a long text that acknowledged her feelings, took 100% responsibility for failing her as a husband, reminding her that despite my behavior, my love for her is true and unwavering. I thanked her for everything she has given me over 9 years together and 5 years of marriage. A beautiful baby girl, companionship, friendship, undying and relentless optimism, a different perspective of family, and many other things. I humbly asked for her forgiveness one day for not taking better care of her, and ended it by saying if she ever could find it in her heart, i am prepared to stop at nothing to give her the life and the love that she deserves. 

Her reply was that she has been fighting for our marriage for a long time. Now she is fighting for her happiness, and to please just let her have that.

Hurts like you cant believe. 2 weeks ago we were having the most passionate sex of our entire relationship. Today she hates the air I breathe.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I know exactly how it feels.

Got myself a tshirt.

I still think her EA is ongoing and she wants to test the waters.

Do not move out of the house.

Read as many threads as you can.

Find the 180 and live by it.

No more pouring your heart out to her.

Now is the time to show her you can live without her.

Now is the time to suck it up and be man.

That little text did nothing but make you look a little more unattractive in her eyes.

Anytime you deal with her ask yourself would Chuck Norris do this?

If the answer is no.....then don't do it.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I'll bet $50 she has her eyes on someone. A woman doesn't just give up her family and financial security for nothing. You two obviously didn't have a great marriage these past 5 years, or you just married the wrong person.

Get 50/50 custody, you'll get it if there are no drug/alcohol/abuse documented against you. Your daughter needs you in her life just as much or more than her mom. The court sees it this way as well.

I went through an amicable divorce just recently with two kids (both under 6yrs) and I am doing just fine. You will too. Sure it put a big dent in my financials, but I'm young enough where I'll recover. You'll probably need some sleep meds for a bit, because your mind will be racing when you lay down. I checked out of my marriage years ago, almost 5 years of 100% no sex, touch, or anything. I was in a serious relationship a month after separating. You two were having sex a few weeks ago, so things must have looked good to you. I feel for you, it must hurt.

Your kid will be fine as long as you both are in her life and can treat each other with respect. She will probably get an extra mom and dad in her life that loves and cares for her, so that will be a big plus. Make sure you pick a great woman next time, your kid(s) need to see what a true loving relationship is like.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> I know exactly how it feels.
> 
> I still think her EA is ongoing and she wants to test the waters.
> 
> ...


I love the Chuck Norris analogy! 

So one big difference between TAM and marriage builders is how to handle the affair if there is one. MB puts a TON of pressure on busting up the affair. Im hearing thr exact opposite over here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> There is more to the story. Im typing as fast as I can. Thank you for the wuick replies. I will read up on the 180.
> 
> After our talk last night I retired to the guest bedroom with our daughter to sleep. My mind was racing and i had a weak moment. I sent her a long text that acknowledged her feelings, took 100% responsibility for failing her as a husband, reminding her that despite my behavior, my love for her is true and unwavering. I thanked her for everything she has given me over 9 years together and 5 years of marriage. A beautiful baby girl, companionship, friendship, undying and relentless optimism, a different perspective of family, and many other things. I humbly asked for her forgiveness one day for not taking better care of her, and ended it by saying if she ever could find it in her heart, i am prepared to stop at nothing to give her the life and the love that she deserves.
> 
> ...


You really need to stop begging. It's counter productive. Follow the 180 to a T. Stop telling her you want her back. It's pathetic, and women aren't particularly attracted to pathetic guys. EXPOSE HER. This is important. Then start the 180 and play hardball with getting everything you can with the divorce and custody. She needs to see reality for what it is. You might want to ask her to move out. Do not move out yourself under any circumstances. Unless of course your lawyer tells you to. If you abandon the marital home there will be consequences in the form of custody and possibly alimony. If she wants you out, and you stay....make sure you have a recorder on you at all times. Good chance she'll try to say you're abusive and you will need proof that you're not.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I love the Chuck Norris analogy!
> 
> So one big difference between TAM and marriage builders is how to handle the affair if there is one. MB puts a TON of pressure on busting up the affair. Im hearing thr exact opposite over here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


NO....we haven't got there yet. 

If you are not ready to let go, then yes by all means you need to bust up the affair. It's your only real shot of saving your marriage. 

Exposure is the number one tool to bust an affair up.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> I'll bet $50 she has her eyes on someone. A woman doesn't just give up her family and financial security for nothing. You two obviously didn't have a great marriage these past 5 years, or you just married the wrong person.
> 
> Get 50/50 custody, you'll get it if there are no drug/alcohol/abuse documented against you. Your daughter needs you in her life just as much or more than her mom. The court sees it this way as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this insight. The idea of my wife being with someone else causes me inexplicable pain. I cant get out of my mind what she will be doing in bed with someone else. Its eating me alive. As for our daughter I know she will be okay. We are both good parents. She has had her sunshine pumped by her echo chamber of people to the point where she assumes she will just get full custody and ride off into the sunset. Id like to know if she has something going on because it might give me the closure I need to move on. She has re-written history as they all do. Our marriage has been pretty fun for the most part. We have had the typical quarrels that all marriages have, but never anything like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

What have you done to "discreetly" verify that her affair was over?

I second the anxiety meds for sleep as long as you have no addiction issues.

I used them cause i needed to function at work.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> NO....we haven't got there yet.
> 
> If you are not ready to let go, then yes by all means you need to bust up the affair. It's your only real shot of saving your marriage.
> 
> Exposure is the number one tool to bust an affair up.


Im truthfully not ready to let go. I love my wife dearly and have always envisioned a marriage with her that stood the test of time. Around the time she had our daughter 2 years ago our marriage really started stumbling. Running on 3 cylinders. I wasnt the suportive man she needed with a newborn, and I wasnt getting any intimacy from her, so we resented each other. She carries this resentment and is unable to forgive me for any of it. Anytime something doesnt go her way or I drop the ball, those feelings are stirred back up.

I will admit I have been on autopilot in this marriage and done serious damage in the process. That doesnt justify her cheating if thats whats going on. She seems to be in a hurry to push this divorce through and get it over with. I offered to agree to all the logistics of a divorce up front if she would go to marriage counseling with me for a few months first and then re evaluate. She said no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> There is more to the story. Im typing as fast as I can. Thank you for the wuick replies. I will read up on the 180.
> 
> After our talk last night I retired to the guest bedroom with our daughter to sleep. My mind was racing and i had a weak moment. I sent her a long text that acknowledged her feelings, took 100% responsibility for failing her as a husband, reminding her that despite my behavior, my love for her is true and unwavering. I thanked her for everything she has given me over 9 years together and 5 years of marriage. A beautiful baby girl, companionship, friendship, undying and relentless optimism, a different perspective of family, and many other things. I humbly asked for her forgiveness one day for not taking better care of her, and ended it by saying if she ever could find it in her heart, i am prepared to stop at nothing to give her the life and the love that she deserves.
> 
> ...


Ok, going to take the high road(but very hard as your W has appeared to be checked out with someone else.) My W checked out after 20 years of marriage. She did tell me over the years what was missing. I felt I was doing enough. Eventually just really gave up. It was then that it hit me. I was not meeting her emotional needs. My W did provide me the opportunity to change my ways. What a simple change it was and how enormously did it change our marriage for the better. With that said, hopefully your W will allow you to show your ACTIONS of change and not just words. In doing so the marriage can be reinvigorated. 

But, the texting OM is very concerning.

Did your W over the years express here unhappiness to you? If not, why not?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> What have you done to "discreetly" verify that her affair was over?
> 
> I second the anxiety meds for sleep as long as you have no addiction issues.
> 
> I used them cause i needed to function at work.


I will look into anxiety meds. No addiction issues here. 

I have had teensafe and webwatcher monitoring her phone traffic for about the last month or two. I gps tracked her car until she found it and flew off the handle over it. 

Just recently she decided she was done and changed all the passwords to her devices, got an entirely new phone, and this cut me off from webwatcher and teensafe monitoring. So i am now in the dark. All i can do is hire a P.I (very expensive)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She communicates with me about as well as a pine tree. She is a conflict avoider like the PLAGUE. Her personality is so bright and optimistic its what originally attracted me to her. But thats the result of her avoidance of anything that even smells like conflict. Much less anything that would make her feel bad or portray her in a bad light.


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Dude, she obviously doesn't see the same future you do. The sooner you accept that the better it will be. The 180 will help you, but not your marriage. She is done, kaput, it's over. Close that chapter and just tell yourself there is no going back. Every time you get that itch or sadness or whatever, it just slows down your healing process.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Okay, maybe she is not cheating now, but her behavior has been questionable at best, and flagrant at worst. 

The driving factor of her behavior is that she has not been into the marriage at all, at least since your kid was born. Some women do this. The minute they give birth to the first kid, a breaker trips in the love-lobe in their brain and they just shut down. I think that is what has happened here. 

I don't think you should feel bad about anything. You have a coward of a wife who never once told you she was unhappy. She allowed you to live a farce of a marriage all the while making you think things were ok. 

If anyone should be furious it should be you. 

Quit taking the blame for her sad-ass excuses for why she is unhappy. It is not your job to make her happy, but it is her job to not do things to make it look like she is cheating on you and causing you worry. 

Thing is, this recent deal with the female coworker, and your premature handling of it, was all the reason she needed to finally get what she has been wanting. Now she can blame you for driving her away. She will now get on FB and the horn and tell everyone you know that you were crazy, abusive and paranoid and that you have driven her away. All her friends will circle the SUVs around her and cast you out like the devil-man you are... 

No. Do the 180 and shut the fvck up around her. Just shut up. Do not speak to her anymore. Let your lawyer do the talking.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> She communicates with me about as well as a pine tree. *She is a conflict avoider like the PLAGUE.* Her personality is so bright and optimistic its what originally attracted me to her. But thats the result of her avoidance of anything that even smells like conflict. Much less anything that would make her feel bad or portray her in a bad light.


Consistently this is one trait that is shared by many waywards. They don't know how to communicate their needs and desires, so instead of standing up for themselves, they get run over. So they look for alternate methods of getting what they want, hence adultery.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> She communicates with me about as well as a pine tree. She is a conflict avoider like the PLAGUE. Her personality is so bright and optimistic its what originally attracted me to her. But thats the result of her avoidance of anything that even smells like conflict. Much less anything that would make her feel bad or portray her in a bad light.


So for years you are in the dark because your W does not like conflict. That would mean approaching you with her concerns on how you fulfill here needs or lack there of. Avoiding that has now lead to a disconnection that you are suffering the consequences of. So is your child eventually. When will you W own 50% of the failed marriage or is that all on you because you sucked at daddy duty when your child arrived. And....your W holds resentment as a result and you got zero intimacy but stayed the course. See the issue here? It ain't you.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Consistently this is one trait that is shared by many waywards. They don't know how to communicate their needs and desires, so instead of standing up for themselves, they get run over. So they look for alternate methods of getting what they want, hence adultery.


Bingo.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Any way you can get a VAR into her car?

Do you know who the OM is?


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> She communicates with me about as well as a pine tree. She is a conflict avoider like the PLAGUE. Her personality is so bright and optimistic its what originally attracted me to her. But thats the result of her avoidance of anything that even smells like conflict. Much less anything that would make her feel bad or portray her in a bad light.


Your doing what so many do in the beginning, your throwing yourself on the sword unwilling to hold your spouse accountable for her part. She is a conflict avoider which means your supposed to read her mind and just know all of her needs magically. It don't work that way. 

You own your faults and weaknesses, she must own hers. The more you try and carry her weaknesses the more she will avoid them and the more entitled she will feel to dump them on you. 

Everything she has said since her night out points to someone caught her eye, the switch rarely flips without someone else in the wings. She also most likely has a toxic friend or two who have filled her up with notions of taking you to the cleaners, full custody etc etc. You've only been married a few years, you most likely have no empire to divide and the vast majority of states default to 50/50 custody.

She wants her freedom, hand her papers and wish her luck. It's exactly what you don't want to do but it's about the only thing you can do. She is unwilling to work on the marriage and the more you try to "save" it the less she will ever want to.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

honcho said:


> She wants her freedom, hand her papers and wish her luck. It's exactly what you don't want to do but it's about the only thing you can do. She is unwilling to work on the marriage and the more you try to "save" it the less she will ever want to.


This hard stance is also the best way to save your marriage as well.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

You need to stop being "Mr. Nice Guy" with her. She's shown you over and over that won't work. Start playing hard ball, don't back down at all from 50/50 custody. Use the affair against her in the court room and tell the judge it would not be fair to your daughter to make her live with an unstable mother who has affairs. Expose her affair to all of her relatives, parents. friends, work. Like others on here, I'm convinced she's with someone else now. Use a VAR to get further evidence against her.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Reasons I think she's cheating:

1 She's in a hurry to leave
2 You think she's cheating (why you're checking on her
3 She has rewritten the marriage history (guilt)
4 She's in a hurry
5 She's in a hurry
6 Coming in at 2 am with ANYBODY
7 You're such a bad guy (back to guilt and blameshifting)
8 Suddenly the best sex and now wants a divorce (why was it so recently the best sex ever-- got to be a reason and I think I know)

You: are not wanting it to end and trying to hold on to her, using leverage with daughter STRIKE ONE
are trying to win her back STRIKE TWO
are begging and pleading STRIKE THREE and you're out.

She: Has cut you off from passwords, and you're "in the dark"
Has refused to even CONSIDER reconciling.
Has never mentioned she was unhappy or miserable and suddenly wants a divorce?
Has been guilty of texting another man before
rewriting marital history, in a rush to divorce, being secretive, coming home at 2am, etc. etc.

My conclusion: she's checked out long ago, but is in a rush because she's met someone. She may not be having an affair now, but wait and see how long it takes for her to be in a relationship with someone new. It won't be long, I assure you.

What to do:
I know it's hard, but it's already been said. There is nothing, NOTHING you can do EXCEPT move on, get a divorce, get a fair custody and financial agreement, and stay the heck away from her. Fight all urges to communicate (a daunting task, I know).
I swear to you that there is NOTHING you can say or do to change their minds, other than announcing you won the lottery the day after the divorce goes through.
It doesn't matter if you want it or not, you're getting a divorce. If you listen to nothing else I've said, listen closely to the next sentence:

Get a divorce agreement signed and stamped by the court NOW, while she is in a hurry to leave. If you wait, and let her girlfriends and such educate her on how to screw you, you will be given the shaft in the worst way.

Lastly, I'm very sorry and know exactly how you feel. I wish I could tell you the magic cure for this. Well, actually I can--- divorce and find someone else after you've healed from this viscous wound.
No sense in trying to find out she cheated unless you need closure. Not even knowing she cheated will be able to suddenly turn off your love. Your love for her is now your worst enemy. Try to release it. So sorry.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

So dont waste my energy on figuring out whats going on and exposing it?


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Give her a quick divorce to get the best possible settlement for yourself. Strike now, don't wait for her to decide she hates every fiber of your being. If you present to her a fair settlement in accordance to what a judge would likely come up with after a long expensive fight, she will probably go for it rather than pay lawyers lots of money.

If you wait, you lose. It is that simple.

And, when somebody is done they are done. This doesn't seem like a sudden out of the blue decision on her part. I think your chances of wooing her back and her being a loving faithful wife are zero. Sorry.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Eh...don't want to spoil the party, but I have not seen any real red flag yet. So there is seen from the TAM side no evidence for cheating presented.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

BuilderMan said:


> I will look into anxiety meds. No addiction issues here.
> 
> I have had teensafe and webwatcher monitoring her phone traffic for about the last month or two. I gps tracked her car until she found it and flew off the handle over it.
> 
> ...



Builder,

Cutting you off and the above are two of the biggest red flags out there. Her frenzy to get this over with is another HUGE red flag and you "nicing" her back is NOT going to work.

Practically everyone that has responded to you believes that everything she is doing and the manner she is doing it indicates their is some other man involved and you already have caught her once.

is an expensive PI going to change anything unless in your state adultery can impact child care OR your financial situation. my bet is the minute you separate you will find out she is with someone else. i know that is tough to hear but for YOU to heal you must get out of denial and into the anger stage.

She is NOT your friend now. Your attorney has told you she will get 50/50 at best so DO NOT leave the house or do anything you are not cleared by attorney to do.

keep posting here for support. You will get it as long as you do not keep chasing. That will not be recommended by the "veterans" here who have been through this ****


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> So dont waste my energy on figuring out whats going on and exposing it?


You can. But do it in parallel with filing for divorce and shared custody. 

If it does turn out that she was/is cheating on you...expose it to family and maybe select friends. If it is a work colleague, talk to us before you expose to her employers. It would be bad if you live in an alimony state and you get her fired.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Eh...don't want to spoil the party, but I have not seen any real red flag yet. So there is seen from the TAM side no evidence for cheating presented.


Seeing texts to/from another man and "reconciling" for 6 months and going cold and asking for a divorce isn't evidence?
Coming in at 2 am is normal for a married woman?
Rushing to divorce?
Hiding all passwords and "going dark"?

As said, she jumped on the chance to divorce him and make him the bad guy. She's been wanting out for a while. 
If I were op, id expect to see her with the texting guy within days.

And that .01% of the time she's out of sight is a killer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.

Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM. 

Please dont read this as my naivety, but as an attempt at brainstorming this situation.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Why do all those women hate you?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.
> 
> Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_

No chance at all


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Because anytime we have had indifferences my wife runs to them for support. They all hear the negatives of our relationship but few or none of the positives. My wife handles conflict by garnering support from those that support her unconditionally and have a biased view of our relationship. Its extremely toxic to our relationship given my wife's submissive personality. Her support group controls her like a robot. Our marriage counselor has recently started focusing on this as a major issue in our marriage and, from an independent counseling standpoint, her own issue.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> Because anytime we have had indifferences my wife runs to them for support. They all hear the negatives of our relationship but few or none of the positives. My wife handles conflict by garnering support from those that support her unconditionally and have a biased view of our relationship. Its extremely toxic to our relationship given my wife's submissive personality. Her support group controls her like a robot. Our marriage counselor has recently started focusing on this as a major issue in our marriage and, from an independent counseling standpoint, her own issue.


So she's a child. That is the crux of it. 

A child who was never allowed to solve her own problems or face the consequences of her actions. I.E. a spoiled, entitled princess.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

^ bingo bango


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You had a crappy marriage, just admit it. If you need MC, it's not worth it. Why you want to save it is beyond me. Move on and find someone better. And if that one doesn't work out, move on again. Life is way too short to be with people that make you miserable or have regret.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.
> 
> Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM.
> 
> Please dont read this as my naivety, but as an attempt at brainstorming this situation.


She has stated she wants a divorce, she has a cheerleader section rooting her on. If the marriage is worth that little to her that the opinion of friends/family overrides you and the marriage what exactly are you trying to save? 

Whether she is thinking clearly or not is irrelevant, you arent. She wants a divorce, she is unwilling to work on the marriage. The longer you allow this to go on the more she will convince herself it's the right course for her. Your trying to excuse her behavior rather than look at what's going on.

File for divorce, most states divorce takes forever anyway but the clock needs to get started, either she will try to repair the marriage or she wont, it's that simple.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.
> 
> Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM.
> 
> Please dont read this as my naivety, but as an attempt at brainstorming this situation.


Yes, they could be influencing her.

You need to keep in mind that while your wife could be cheating, there is no evidence yet. Here on TAM, it's pretty normal for the peanut gallery to jump to 'cheating' and pass right over anything else that could be going on.

While doing some snooping is not a bad idea, until you find her cheating, treat this as a very unhappy wife.

You say that your security camera caught her coming home with some woman late at night. Did she know that there was a security carmera watching her?

What are her complaints about the marriage and you besides just that she is unhappy?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm sorry. I can see that you're a ways off from acceptance. It doesn't matter the cause, or what you do, the logic, or anything else. What matters is that your wife doesn't love you. You still love her.
But you can choose to change that by staying away physically, working out, getting a new hobby or interest, dating other women, doing something you could never do married but always wanted to, and going NO CONTACT. The no contact was darn hard for me. But I beg you to resist. Doing so will only bring you pain.

Your life is just beginning. You'll see. But until you reach acceptance, you will be in constant pain. It won't last forever unless you let it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Why would you want to stay married to a child? Wouldn't you rather be married to a mature, independently-minded woman who can make her own decisions and choices? Your wife sounds like a graduate of Jersey Shore. She sounds shallow, immature, immoral, dishonest and selfish to the nth degree. 

Naw... get out of this with your pride and dignity intact. She's a lemon.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Yes, they could be influencing her.
> 
> You need to keep in mind that while your wife could be cheating, there is no evidence yet. Here on TAM, it's pretty normal for the peanut gallery to jump to 'cheating' and pass right over anything else that could be going on.
> 
> ...


Hey EleGirl you want some peanuts? I got some ...fresh roasted.


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> Seeing texts to/from another man and "reconciling" for 6 months and going cold and asking for a divorce isn't evidence?
> Coming in at 2 am is normal for a married woman?
> Rushing to divorce?
> Hiding all passwords and "going dark"?
> ...


It are facts but it is not necessarily pointing to cheating. These facts are also compatible with her being fed up with the situation and wanting to leave because of this:


> Last night we had a long convo that consisted of her telling me how bad she has had it for 5 years of marriage, how miserable she has been, how she has lost herself in the process, how she just wants to put this all behind her and pick up the pieces and move on with her life. She feels like Im never going to change.
> She feels like she has given all she has to give. She feels like she is trapped in a marriage that she doesnt want.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She just text me (i havent heard from her all day)

"we (wife and DD) are about to leave (gay boss's) to go to the farm (to see the alpacas, DD's favorite animal). I think we are eating when we come back. Just touching base with you"

I havent replied


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> She just text me (i havent heard from her all day)
> 
> "we (wife and DD) are about to leave (gay boss's) to go to the farm (to see the alpacas, DD's favorite animal). I think we are eating when we come back. Just touching base with you"
> 
> I havent replied


If your goal is to get back with her and keep your family intact, reply.

Do you understand that she had every right to be extremely upset with over the camera thing? Do you understand why?

Oh, at what is KC?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The "boss" or "guy friend" is always gay. Always. 

Funny how these gay guys go straight for a day when they get a chance to bang another guy's wife.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> If your goal is to get back with her and keep your family intact, reply.
> 
> Do you understand that she had every right to be extremely upset with over the camera thing? Do you understand why?
> 
> Oh, at what is KC?


Playing devil's advocate...what if the camera was just part of the home security system? Lots of people have them. It may not have been planted just to catch her. Was it OP?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

7,000 ft house with cams all over it. Not bragging just giving context


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Playing devil's advocate...what if the camera was just part of the home security system? Lots of people have them. It may not have been planted just to catch her. Was it OP?


That's why I asked. 

But even if the camera is just part of the home security system and she knew it was there, she has every right to be royally pissed at him.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> 7,000 ft house with cams all over it. Not bragging just giving context


Could you answer my other questions?

Do you understand why she has every right to be pissed at you?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > 7,000 ft house with cams all over it. Not bragging just giving context
> ...


Thank you for your insight. Given the situation I dont fully understand her level of anger and how it correlates to this situation. I felt justified in my actions given the circumstances. Can you help me?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> That's why I asked.
> 
> But even if the camera is just part of the home security system and she knew it was there, she has every right to be royally pissed at him.


Well wait a minute, lets read that again: 




> We go 6 weeks with things looking up, improving day by day. I go to KC for the weekend with my guy friends and notice on my security camera app that *my wife came home at 2am with a female from work.* I thought it was weird so i contacted one of her friends to inquire. That friend calls my wife saying I think my wife is a lesbian. My wife explodes at me and says no more. She cant take this crap anymore. Shes done. Turns out my wife isnt a lesbian. I handled that situation poorly. And that was the last straw for my marriage.


Okay, so OP, did this woman come home with your wife and stay in your house overnight? Or did she just drop your wife off at 2 a.m. and leave?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She came home with my wife, and my wife told me they slept in our marital bed together because this chick was intimidated and scared to sleep in one of the guest rooms


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> The "boss" or "guy friend" is always gay. Always.
> 
> Funny how these gay guys go straight for a day when they get a chance to bang another guy's wife.


He is gay, 68 years old and has a life "partner" his age


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Thank you for your insight. Given the situation I dont fully understand her level of anger and how it correlates to this situation. I felt justified in my actions given the circumstances. Can you help me?


First things first.. what is "KC"? >

You checked the video and saw that your wife came home at 2am with a female friend. Instead of addressing this with your wife, you call a friend of hers to find out what was going on. This should have been addressed with your wife and your wife alone. My bet is that she was humiliated by this.

Who did you call? Did you call the woman she was with that night? Did you say or imply to the woman that you thought it was a sexual encounter or that you think your wife must be a lesbian?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> He is gay, 68 years old and has a life "partner" his age



Yeah, but a lot of these guys are also bi, and not above doing a chick on the side once in a while. But if you are okay with him then....


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> First things first.. what is "KC"? >
> 
> You checked the video and saw that your wife came home at 2am with a female friend. *Instead of addressing this with your wife, you call a friend of hers find out what was going on.* This should have been addressed with your wife and your wife alone. My bet is that she was humiliated by this.
> 
> Who did you call? Did you call the woman she was with that night? Did you say or imply to the woman that you thought it was a sexual encounter or that you think your wife must be a lesbian?


There it is...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> She came home with my wife, and my wife told me they slept in our marital bed together because this chick was intimidated and scared to sleep in one of the guest rooms


Do you think that your wife had sex with the woman? 

It could be that it was exactly like what your wife said. Why not? I've done the same thing with female friends. No sex. I have no sexual interest in women.

Shoot my step-daughter visited here for a month this summer. I have a smaller house now. So her choice was the couch or sleep in my bed at the same time I slept in it. It's a California king. We shared the bed.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I doubt they just slept together. But EleGirl has a point. It was chicken-sh!t thing for you to have gone to one of her friends instead of calling her yourself, or waiting until you got home to confront her about the video. 

I think your wife is indeed a cheater...probably bisexual. You have every right to be pissed and hurt, but you went about that whole camera thing the wrong way. Totally passive aggressive way to handle that situation. 

Now you have given her ammo to use against you in the court of public opinion. She will use this surveillance thing to tell everyone what a paranoid freak you are. 

You gotta play smarter than this brother.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> I doubt they just slept together. But EleGirl has a point.


Playing devils advocate here...

If it were me and I had sex with some woman while my husband was away, (and I was lying to cover up), I would just say that she slept in a guest room. It's better cover up.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Likely hood she's gay-- low. 
Likelihood we don't have full story-- high.

Why does her folks and her say you're such a bad guy?
Has she complained she wanted a divorce in the past, and what was her excuse for texting the "guy" 6 months ago?

It's not a big deal for women to sleep in same bed after a night out. Her excuse was legitimate. Especially since she didn't hide it.

What is she hiding, though. After 5 years, why the sudden divorce?
Also, although you did pull a bad one, her anger is over the top.

Forget the friend. Out until 2am when you're away? That's over the top, too, in my opinion.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I have been known to post that the cause of infidelity is, almost without exception, caused by lack of sufficient intellectual development. In other words exactly what Bandit has said, your wife has the body of an adult but the mind of someone much, much younger. I tend to agree that you and your daughter would be better served by separating from this woman to the extent possible. However, since it is your strong desire to try and salvage this union, I offer this advice.

You must be aware that the ultimate failure of this marriage is highly probable. Nevertheless, if you wish to attempt R then you must stop acting with reason and logic. How would you coerce your 2 year old to do what you want her to do? You must adopt a similar tack when dealing with your W. She does not process data rationally so when you present her with rationality she is unequipped to deal with it.

First you must get her attention. You must make her see that her toy, you, is being taken away. The fastest way to make a child want something is to give it to another child. Instead of begging and pleading with her to come back adopt an air of indifference. Speak of finding a new female, a stepmom for your daughter and expound on how much better, more stable life will be with this new female for not only you but your daughter as well. Thank her for opening your eyes to the possibility of life with a different female, one who appreciates you and what you have offer.

Also stop appearing weak and needy. When you speak to her speak sternly as a parent speaks to a child, not condescending just firm and decisive. Do not ask her opinion about every little thing just make a decision and do it. If she chooses not to comply then do it without her, just you and your daughter. For instance, if you want to go out and eat state the restaurant, the time and when you are leaving, If she does not comply, simply take your daughter out to eat alone, just you and her.

Understand that this approach assumes she is not in an affair and in what some here call the "fog". If she is that A must be blown apart before this approach can prove efficacious. Also, and this is very important, you must realize that any success that this approach may yield is temporary and that without further diligence on your part to dissolve her so called "cheering section", this will repeat again and again until she grows up, if indeed she can, or does indeed leave. And it may repeat even with the dissolution of her squad, there are no guarantees.

OP you need to know that this path is very difficult and demanding. It places you, for all intents and purposes, as the "parent' in the relationship. I would suggest that you think carefully about that station and be certain that it is one you truly desire because her maturing beyond where she is currently is highly doubtful. Good fortune to you sir.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Builder Man,

As has been pointed out, no matter what is or is not going on, the cheerleader section telling how justified whatever she is doing is is a big factor, and since they apparently are NOT ALL GIRLFRIENDS it is highly unlikely that they ALL know she has a new boyfriend and like him better than you. 

But the cheerleader section aside, what other options do you have other than filing for divorce ( you can stop it) and seeing if the 50-50 split thing that she does not like will at least cause her to spill the beans if there is any infirdelity going on.

I disagree with Ele in that you have caught her once in an inappropriate relationship so I do not thinking it is unreasonable with all the red flags to think that cheating is a very possible thing going on here.

So here you are
(1) she wants immediate divorce.
(2) you have no access to any of her devices
(3) she will not tell you anything
(4) and you have tried to play the pick me game- That has not worked too well, has it???

Now, you can hire a PI if you can afford it. If she is cheating or involved with another man or woman what does that do for you. If it gives you closure and you can afford it, go for it. It does not change her attitude.

Now, if you file and push the divorce, once her cheerleading section of relatives realize that to their surprise she is NOT going to get full custody, maybe they will stop cheering for her to dump you. But do you really want to live with someone who wants OUT who is staying for the kids. She will then surely cheat, and you putting up with that will make it clear you ain't going anywhere no matter what she does.


----------



## plomito (Apr 7, 2015)

Well take it from somebody that is walking those same shoes. Let her go. Like another member mentioned, wish her nothing but the best, keep you head hight and let her go. Once you ate gone she will start realizing how much you mean to her, and if she loves you the anger will subside and she will find her way back to you. But in the meantime trying to hold her, she will never back down from her mind set 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I will provide an alternative scenario, because things go out of hand on the only red flag, the lesbian possibility.

BuilderMan, you could be a little paranoid, or be a little borderline, or something like that. It is just as good as an explanation of all the information you gave.

Do you know anything of this kind?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

After thinking about it tonight, I confronted her. I told her thr gig is up. I know about the other guy. And I offered her an opportunity to own up and tell me whats going on, so I can have the closure I need to move on. She played the "what are you talking about" game. I bluffed and told her I know everything but I wanted to give you a chance to come clean so we can end this amicably. She said "what are you talking about? what do you know?". I gave her a chance again to volunteer info to me about whats been going on. She dug her heels in. I told her unless she wants me to drag this guy into court very embarrassing testimony, this is her chance. She went with "i dont know what you want from me" i said "the truth". She said "there is nothing to tell". I said fine. I will see you in court.

Im done. She has the decency of a common street *****. Will file tomorrow.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for your insight. Given the situation I dont fully understand her level of anger and how it correlates to this situation. I felt justified in my actions given the circumstances. Can you help me?
> ...


Kansas City

I acknowledge that I handled that situation improperly. I should have talked with my wife about it.

I called the only other girl that was hangjng out with my wife and this other girl. I did imply that i was concerned it could be sexual.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Builder Man,
> 
> As has been pointed out, no matter what is or is not going on, the cheerleader section telling how justified whatever she is doing is is a big factor, and since they apparently are NOT ALL GIRLFRIENDS it is highly unlikely that they ALL know she has a new boyfriend and like him better than you.
> 
> ...


I really subscribe to your perspective. My only hope here to shake this up is to take back control of the situation, if only for myself. After talking to her last night and giving her several opportunities to come clean with me, I may have just found the closure I need. If she has been cheating then she gets to live with her conscience. If she hasnt been cheating, she never went out of her way to give me a shred of confidence that she wasnt. Either way she has checked out, and the only hope for me to not feel raped is to put my pants on and end this on my terms.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: Wife of 5 years is &amp;quot;done&amp;quot;*

From your very first post, you'd said that she was tired of you not changing. 

People rarely fundamentally change (really) and instead, you should accept people as they are. 

So, regardless of the other developments in your story of late, a lot of her unhappiness is her own issue and nothing you can really do anything about. It's immature for a person to avoid seeking their own happiness and ascribe happiness to another - Whether that be another's actions, attitude, position, etc. Now she sees her error and is all gung-ho about finding happiness. 

My bets are on that happiness being an OM, but there's always a possibility she just wants away. 

Go heal and learn from the experience. You'll be okay.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I could get on board with her just wanting to be done this easy if we didnt have a child. Our daughter is my wifes LIFE. So the idea that she is willing to give up half of that out of exhaustion or being "over" the marriage doesnt line up. I suspect its a combination of:

1) another guy possibly waiting in the wings

2) She demonizes me to her friends and family to make it appear as though she is escaping a toxic relationship. They take her side and support her leaving, most if not all of them having no idea about #1.

3) her sunshine pumpers have convinced her she is a good mother and has no reason not to expect full custody of our daughter. So in her mind she gives up nothing to get out of this marriage and pursue the other guy. 

What I want to understand, just for my own sanity, is how this plays out. Lets say I file for divorce, we get in the weeds of this and she realizes she isnt getting full custody. Is that going to change her mind? Will it causenher to reconsider her choices? I believe in reconciliation after an affair under the richt circumstances. 

I guess what I am asking is, would the reality check of her realizing she wont get full custody have a similar effect as exposing an affair?


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Wife of 5 years is &quot;done&quot;*

So you will leverage your child to (for lack of a better term) emotionally blackmail your wife to remain married to you, someone whom she despises?

Your other actions, such as calling her friend after seeing them on video, speak to you being a passive-aggressive, controlling man. Whether your wife is cheating or not does not mean you are a good partner, either.

Grant her wish without manipulation, and let her go. Then you can focus on getting yourself out of the victim chair and i.proving yourself for the next Mrs. Builderman.

All the potential cheating is doing is allowing you to ignore your own poor behavior.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> So you will leverage your child to, for lack of a better term, emotionally blackmail your wife to remain married to you, someone whom she despises?
> 
> Your other actions, such as calling her friend after seeing them on video, speak to you being a passive-aggressive, controlling man. Whether your wife is cheating or not does not mean you are a good partner, either.
> 
> ...


I am not talking about leverage. Im talking about lifting the "fog" of her potential affair. Thats what exposure is for when you have proof. 

I am in denial that my wife despises me. I know we love(d) each other for so long, up until the last couple months or so it seems. I think she isnt thinking clearly due to outside influence. In my mind fighting off that outside influence is about the only way to help her see what shes doing. Its not about control. Its about fighting for my marriage.


----------



## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You can't bank or bet on her "fog" lifting.
That's setting yourself up for disappointment if it never happens.

Your approach is way off here. You need to do what's best for the future of YOU and YOUR CHILD.

Your wife is way too busy doing the same for her own benefit. You need to get on board and stop thinking of your family as a complete unit. That broke the moment she said she was done with you. Now you and your child are the new unit. You must plan your futures around that, and mentally, without your wife.

Some people may reference the fact that seeing someone move on with their life can be a bit of a jolt of reality, that's still allowing the possibility of what MIGHT happen cloud your rational decisions.

Stop wishing and hoping for what is intangible. Plan with what you know and is concrete.

Eventually, your sub-conscious need for including her in everything, even a doomsday plan, will subside.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

But leveraging your daughter to blackmail her is exactly what you're doing under the guise of this so called affair, which it's not even clear she's having. 

Unless I've missed some thing.

Cmon, you have "security" cameras to spy on her, you GPS tracked her car, you spy on everything and called her female friend? Does she have a curfew while you're out of town with your friends?

You do come across as pretty controlling.

Then you basically left her to deal with a baby while you pouted over sex?

Maybe your perception of the marriage is rosier than hers because it was working for you. 

This is pretty common. 

If your wife still resents you over your behavior with the baby she's going to resent the hvll out of you if you leverage your daughter to keep the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

The security cameras are around our house for security purposes. They are not spy cameras. They are all in plain sight and everyone knows they are there including her.

You are missing the point. I am going to fight for 50/50 custody of my daughter because I love her and want to be as active in her life as possible while also realizing she needs her mother in her life an equal amount. My attempt at joint custody is in no way driven by hopes of manipulating my wife or leverage or anything else. My question revolved around what will happen in the wake of reality when it hits her that she is not going to get full custody. Will that have an effect on the "fog" or not. Seems to me like that will be a ton of bricks coming down on her.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Evinrude58 said:


> Reasons I think she's cheating:
> 
> 1 She's in a hurry to leave
> 2 You think she's cheating (why you're checking on her
> ...




How do you figure that coming in at 2am is problematic when he'd gome out of town with friends?

Is it inappropriate for a married man to go out of town with his buddies?

Seems a little double standarish to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

His wife was texting another man. He has reason to "spy". She comes in at 2am. Where's this child that you say he left with her to care for?

Yes, he's guilty of leveraging his child because it's hard to let go. It's not a crime for him to still be in love with his wife.

Op, it won't work. Once they say they're done, no matter the reason or what you do---/ you've GOT to move on. If you don't, you're digging yourself a hole. Divorce, get 50/50 custody, and move on. 

Doesn't matter if she's cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> But leveraging your daughter to blackmail her is exactly what you're doing under the guise of this so called affair, which it's not even clear she's having.
> 
> Unless I've missed some thing.
> 
> ...



Left her? No way. I never left her. I struggled with being a new dad and not knowing how to play that role. It took me a full year to get my sh*t together and figure out what being a dad and being a parent is about. I have never been around babies so the learning curve was VERY steep. No i never left her. I just was not the supportive husband that she needed me to be in that moment.

I tracked her car because I had reason to believe she was cheating. I had seen the texts in her phone to another guy. She deleted them shortly after that and denied them. Later she admitted to texting another guy but played it down as not what I was making it out to be, etc. So yes in my mind I have had good reason to be spying on her.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> His wife was texting another man. He has reason to "spy". She comes in at 2am. Where's this child that you say he left with her to care for?


That weekend was a bachelor party trip to KC for a friend of mine that is getting married. She took our daughter to her parents house for the weekend so she could hang out with her friends while I was gone. Child was in good hands.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> The security cameras are around our house for security purposes. They are not spy cameras. They are all in plain sight and everyone knows they are there including her.
> 
> You are missing the point. I am going to fight for 50/50 custody of my daughter because I love her and want to be as active in her life as possible while also realizing she needs her mother in her life an equal amount. My attempt at joint custody is in no way driven by hopes of manipulating my wife or leverage or anything else. My question revolved around what will happen in the wake of reality when it hits her that she is not going to get full custody. Will that have an effect on the "fog" or not. Seems to me like that will be a ton of bricks coming down on her.


But you are using them to spy on her. And tracking her car isn't for security.

How does she know what you're doing with your friends while out of town?

You certainly should get equal custody of your daughter. Why would your wife fear you taking her away?

And what fog are you trying to break? You'd said you had no evidence of an affair. Please don't let TAM plant this idea in your head if you have no evidence of it, these guys see cheating everywhere . On TAM the only reason women ever walk is because there's another guy. 

As I said, your view of the marriage is likely different because it worked for you. 

Your reason for this seems to be that two weeks ago you had good sex. A lot of men assume that if they're having sex all is good. 

Not necessarily the case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

My attorney is advising me not to file.

"I recommend letting her file. If you file then you really need to be the one to move out, which I know you don't want to do. Plus, you don't want to be the one who files for divorce in a case in which you have a 2 year old. Let's let you be the good guy."


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > The security cameras are around our house for security purposes. They are not spy cameras. They are all in plain sight and everyone knows they are there including her.
> ...



Im not using them to spy on her. I reviewed the cameras to confirm she was doing what she told me she was doing. Call that spying if you must. But when you have suspicion of an affair, have been lied to, seen texts between her and another guy, I dont think spying is inappropriate at all. 

Im looking at our marriage as whole. From the only perspective I have, which is my own. There is plenty to save. Tons of reasons. I believe she has other people doing the thinking for her but I also believe she still loves me. Her actions are speaking otherwise.

Im not convinced there is another guy right now. I am convinced she has someone in mind though. So i am handling this as if there is an active affair. But it seems as though the general consensus of the board is there is no saving this regardless of an affair or not.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Builder,

Not sure about the consensus of no saving it if there is someone else involved or not.

TRUST YOUR GUT

If she has someone in mind and you blow that up or discover it, that may snap her back to reality. 

Now you just stated yoiu DO THINK SHE HAS SOMEONE IN MIND. IF you have an idea who that is you might want to post who that is and why you think that and maybe get some advice on how to dig. 

If it's at work it is much harder when she refuses to co operate at all.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

In fairness and despite his controlling, his wife clearly was in some form of an affair in the recent past. 

To dismiss that is a possibility now is purely reckless.

However, this possibility in no way excuses his poor behavior, nor his need to clean up his own side of the street.


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Last night we had a long convo that consisted of her telling me how bad she has had it for 5 years of marriage, how miserable she has been, how she has lost herself in the process, how she just wants to put this all behind her and pick up the pieces and move on with her life. She feels like Im never going to change.
> She feels like she has given all she has to give. She feels like she is trapped in a marriage that she doesnt want.
> 
> I listened to all of this with a calm demeanor, eye contact, and validation. I told her I understand how she feels and I am sorry for what I have done to make her feel that way. Had I known she was struggling all along I would have been in the trenches with her working on the marriage. She took it all upon herself and finally gave up.
> ...



You WW did cheat when she was texting another man - regardless of whether she is cheating now or not. I don't think there were adequate consequences

She has checked out so you ought to take the advice given here and go through the steps, 180, attorney, etc
Follow through , not threatening.

YOur WW is not the woman you thought she was, she has cheated and is willing to put herself before you and your kid. Do not give in, stay strong and follow through. YOu sound young enough to meet someone who is actually worthy of you


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't get it.

You guys are raking him over the coals because he has trust issues 
six weeks out from catching his wife in an at least an EA. 

Hell yeah he has trust issues. Who wouldn't.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> After thinking about it tonight, I confronted her. I told her thr gig is up. *I know about the other guy.* And I offered her an opportunity to own up and tell me whats going on, so I can have the closure I need to move on. She played the "what are you talking about" game. *I bluffed and told her I know everything* but I wanted to give you a chance to come clean so we can end this amicably. She said "what are you talking about? what do you know?". I gave her a chance again to volunteer info to me about whats been going on. She dug her heels in. I told her unless she wants me to drag this guy into court very embarrassing testimony, this is her chance. She went with "i dont know what you want from me" i said "the truth". She said "there is nothing to tell". I said fine. I will see you in court.
> 
> Im done. She has the decency of a common street *****. Will file tomorrow.


Soooo... You bluffed...You risked your marriage, your daughters family...on a bluff...I must have missed something in the other posts..why would you do that? Bluff=Manipulation....Manipulation is a form of control....see how that works? Stop proving her point. 

You had no real proof of an affair (aside from Text Messages that were older)...You are currently in marriage counseling...this could have been talked about the counselor first. Probably should have been. Stop being rash. 

In the event you are wrong...you do know how entirely crazy and controlling (Yes I get that controlling is rare...but this is massive manipulation) that makes you look...right?? Digging in her heels, in this situation, can also be (likely is), simply her not having anything to confess.....something to consider. 

In any event...do what your lawyer advises. STOP...communicating in such a way that you appear anything less than calm, confident and composed. 

Just slow down.....

AND...you admitted that you own your part of the damage that has been done...but I haven't heard anything concrete in what happened...so...what happened? What else was going on that you haven't told us...or haven't considered.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I have retained an attorney. Asked my wife this morning for the name and address of her attorney. She said "why?" And I said "because I want to send them flowers".

I just 180'd everything with her in that one moment. It was all over her face.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

OP

Trust your gut.

You know where your marriage is.

These readers do not.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I could get on board with her just wanting to be done this easy if we didnt have a child. Our daughter is my wifes LIFE. So the idea that she is willing to give up half of that out of exhaustion or being "over" the marriage doesnt line up. I suspect its a combination of: *(Some optional perspective::*
> 
> 1) another guy possibly waiting in the wings *But you have NO real proof of this*
> 
> ...


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I have retained an attorney. Asked my wife this morning for the name and address of her attorney. She said "why?" And I said "because I want to send them flowers".
> 
> I just 180'd everything with her in that one moment. It was all over her face.


I have watched my father divorce many many many many times. If divorce is your intended direction...you need to be civil. The quips, remarks...make you sound like a spoiled child. Stop that...that iks not the way to neogotiate to a place of yes. Treat her respectfully and cordially. Maybe she doesn't have a lawyer...or really didn't know why you would need to contact hers...she sounds like her family and then you...have dealt with most life issues for her...SHe is going to be learning how to take care of these things herself. Making it harder for her isn't going to help you AT ALL.

Be calm, Slow Down, If you want to say something to her and it will feel like a good zinger.....then don't say it.

Edit: You didn't just 180 everything in that moment. You made her feel inadequate, she won't forget this. You already stated she is conflict avoidant...look at her through the lens of the things you already know.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> That weekend was a bachelor party trip to KC for a friend of mine that is getting married. She took our daughter to her parents house for the weekend so she could hang out with her friends while I was gone. Child was in good hands.


I figured she was being taken care of.... My point was that I also figured your wife was hout "hanging with friends" until 2am instead of taking care of your daughter while you were gone.

Yeah, if you're out bachelor partying it up until late at night, no problem with her going out. However, I seriously doubt that with you two having a troubled marriage and her "trying to reconcile", going out with friends and you going to bachelor parties is very conducive to trust at this point.

Otherwise, if you had a good and trusting marriage, I have no problem with her or you going out and staying out late. Personally, I don't think it should be a regular event when one is married with kids, but once in a while is not necessarily a bad thing. I will say if you're going "out" until late---- it should be with your spouse.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

MarriedDude said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > After thinking about it tonight, I confronted her. I told her thr gig is up. *I know about the other guy.* And I offered her an opportunity to own up and tell me whats going on, so I can have the closure I need to move on. She played the "what are you talking about" game. *I bluffed and told her I know everything* but I wanted to give you a chance to come clean so we can end this amicably. She said "what are you talking about? what do you know?". I gave her a chance again to volunteer info to me about whats been going on. She dug her heels in. I told her unless she wants me to drag this guy into court very embarrassing testimony, this is her chance. She went with "i dont know what you want from me" i said "the truth". She said "there is nothing to tell". I said fine. I will see you in court.
> ...


My bluff was not a risk to anything. My wife wants a divorce and is completely checked out of the marriage. There is reasonable suspicion of another guy in the picture. There are 15 red flags that gave me cause for my behavior. 

I understand if I am wrong about a current affair all this behavior appears a certain way. I also understand that a reasonable person that has nothing to hide would be more concerned about why their spouse feels the need to go to these extents, as opposed to being defensive and mad about it.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> My attorney is advising me not to file.
> 
> "I recommend letting her file. If you file then you really need to be the one to move out, which I know you don't want to do. Plus, you don't want to be the one who files for divorce in a case in which you have a 2 year old. Let's let you be the good guy."


Horrible, horrible advice. Your wife doesn't love you anymore according to her. You know she's getting advice from others.
You know she was cheating recently.

IF YOU WAIT. I'll tell you what will happen. She's going to get to the point that she hates you and enjoys bringing you pain. She's going to get educated by hateful women on how to bring you the hurt financially in the divorce, and encourage her to do whatever she can to break you and fix herself up as good as possible.

You need a different lawyer. Right now, she is in a huge hurry to get out of your marriage. You should use that desire to get out to get yourself a FAIR deal with her. Otherwise you're screwed, and there will be nothing fair about it. Don't learn the hard way. 
I'm not saying to move out. I'm saying it would be GREAT to get her to file first. However, if she wants to cake eat and wait until SHE has her plan mapped out to divorce you, you will be in a bind.
Either get her to actually file, or file yourself.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Evinrude58 said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > That weekend was a bachelor party trip to KC for a friend of mine that is getting married. She took our daughter to her parents house for the weekend so she could hang out with her friends while I was gone. Child was in good hands.
> ...


Totally agree. Her friends hate me and I have a small circle of guy friends that are not much into the bar scene. My wife (30) hangs out with a few of her co workers (hair stylists). Some are married, some are not. None of them are marriage material though. Needless to say we havent gone out to the bars until 2am together one time since we have been married. That ended after the courtship.

Things were on the upswing and we both felt fine about the weekend plans. There were no feelings of distrust on the front end.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I think MB recommends separating the finances as well. 

I would not let her have full access to your money any more. 

Joint credit cards need to be destroyed and/or user names removed.

Keep suggesting she move out. She can't afford that monstrous house anyway.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Totally agree. Her friends hate me and I have a small circle of guy friends that are not much into the bar scene. My wife (30) hangs out with a few of her co workers (hair stylists). Some are married, some are not. None of them are marriage material though. Needless to say we havent gone out to the bars until 2am together one time since we have been married. That ended after the courtship.
> 
> Things were on the upswing and we both felt fine about the weekend plans. There were no feelings of distrust on the front end.


Then you are flipping out about the video of her coming in at 2am, you are flipping out telling her you are done and want a divorce and trying to force a confession, and totally in the wrong. I understand why you're doing it. You have been made by her texting the other guy and probably cheating to be HYPERSENSITIVE to any little thing. 

Simple questions: Do you think she is cheating now? You say you don't but has someone in mind. That could be paranoia
Do you think she did wrong on the 2am thing? If not, you have a major apology to do.
Do you feel she is honest about whether she is having an affair? If so, then you have REALLY screwed up with the bluff and anger thing.


Bluffing with no evidence whatsoever is NOT a smart thing to do. If she's truthful, you have really f'd yourself. If she's lying, you f'd yourself too, because now you've made her angry. Now is NOT THE TIME to make your wife angry. Now, if you're divorcing, is the time to be as good as gold to her.

Sir, you are making some horrible mistakes. You are angry, and you are letting it cause you to make mistakes.

I don't understand why she was against getting an attorney when you bluffed, though. She should have jumped on that if she wants out.

If you want the best advice, you need to give facts, not how you feel about it, but facts of things you've done in the past to hurt her repeatedly. Also, facts about what SHE has done in the past to hurt you.

I'm worried by your actions that you could be the cause of your own problems with your wife.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Look dude, stop. You need to calm down. First, don't leverage your child even if she was doing it earlier and it is being ignored. She wants out, give her an out. Who cares about the OM and OW, this may or may not be true. Again who cares? She wants out, let her get out. Expose her, find out, leverage the child, who cares? She wants out, give her an out. The people you tell are going to support her and blame you for driving her to the affair anyway. If there is even an affair. 

Get your 50/50 or fight for full because you want it, not to spite her or force her back into the marriage. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't want to be with someone who has to be coerced or threatened to be with me. Let her continue the emotional blackmail and keep yourself out of the gutter.


----------



## cutebunny (Aug 26, 2016)

@BuilderMan 
Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.

Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM. 

Please dont read this as my naivety, but as an attempt at brainstorming this situation.

I think there is a chance. My support group -mom and sister have a lot to do with the decisions I make. A lot!


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

OP

How bad were the texts you discovered six weeks ago?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I have spent the last 10 days apologizing my ass off. Falling HARD on the sword. Owning almost every problem in our relationship. I am seeing a therapist. Im working on my knee jerk emotions. Im working on trust. Lots of things are happening on my side. Im losing weight, joined a gym, eating better, drinking less, etc.

I am letting her go. I wanted to file today but my atty (whom is a highly respected/feared litigator in domestic relations) has advised me that he is building a case of me being the "good guy" that is just trying to do what he can to save his marriage and provide for his family. That goes out the window if I am the one to file. I am following the advice of my atty by letting her file. I asked for her atty's name and she gave it to me. 

Right now she is in-between cars. We just sold her car and have a new jeep on order. She is in a rental car. She has decided she doesnt want the jeep and the dealership is letting us out of the deal, but she still wants me to help buy her a car. My atty says to help her get a car but keep it reasonable. Everything in me wants to tell her about the 10 speed huffy I saw on sale at Walmart yesterday. But I guess I will be buying my wife her "drive away" car.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> OP
> 
> How bad were the texts you discovered six weeks ago?


Moderate-bad. No crotch shots exchanged (unless they were deleted), but plenty of talk about our marriage and how unhappy she is. He reinforced her position and told her he thinks she should bail. Etc. Led me to believe more of an EA than a PA. At least at that time.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Look dude, stop. You need to calm down. First, don't leverage your child even if she was doing it earlier and it is being ignored. She wants out, give her an out. Who cares about the OM and OW, this may or may not be true. Again who cares? She wants out, let her get out. Expose her, find out, leverage the child, who cares? She wants out, give her an out. The people you tell are going to support her and blame you for driving her to the affair anyway. If there is even an affair.
> 
> Get your 50/50 or fight for full because you want it, not to spite her or force her back into the marriage. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't want to be with someone who has to be coerced or threatened to be with me. Let her continue the emotional blackmail and keep yourself out of the gutter.


Why does everybody keep saying I am trying leverage my child? Thats not at all what i was talking about. My point was what effect, if any, the cold water of joint custody will have on my wifes fairy tale vision of what divorced life is going to be like. She is adament about getting custody because she wants our kid to have one home (with her) and I get as much "visitation" with her as I want. Im taking the position of not no, but HELL no. She broke down balling crying saying she is scared im going to fight her on that. I feel like she has convinced herself this is the way its going to be, and is ill prepared to accept the fact that its not going to be tha way.

She has in her mind a life that is better than what she has now. The problem is what she is envisioning is not whats coming. If she wants one home for her daughter then we need to work on our marriage. Otherwise its two homes. Thats just how its going to be.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Also, why is she still wearing one wedding band?


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So beyond her texting about how your marriage was bad what else was there?

I don't think it's appropriate to share marital issues with someone of the opposite sex, I'm just hoping there's more to it to make you think she's involved with him. 

There's a long way between crotch shots and b!tching about one's marriage.

And why did you not take that opportunity to address her feeling that the marriage was bad? You could've made the point that if she feels this way she comes to you, not some other dude.

Has she tried to tell you she was unhappy?

Clearly she viewed things differently. That's why I suggested that your view might have been rosier than hers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.
> 
> Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM.
> 
> Please dont read this as my naivety, but as an attempt at brainstorming this situation.


If she had a submissive personality, she wouldn't have cut you off from sex and been "cold as marble" toward you.

Now this is not to say that her friends and family aren't poisoning her mind further, but your problem isn't them. It's her.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> She came home with my wife, and my wife told me they slept in our marital bed together because this chick was intimidated and scared to sleep in one of the guest rooms


I'm not sure the only gay person in this story is her boss...


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> So beyond her texting about how your marriage was bad what else was there?
> 
> I don't think it's appropriate to share marital issues with someone of the opposite sex, I'm just hoping there's more to it to make you think she's involved with him.
> 
> ...


He was asking her about what her plans are after divorce. How long its gonna take. Letting her know she can call him if she needs to talk it out. "Im here for you" that kinda crap. He is an ex boyfriend from before I met her. They were "friends with benefits" back then apparently. 

That was the point at which I DID address all the issues in our marriage and we both agreed to work on it together and in counseling. 6 weeks of progress, everybody happy, and then I pulled the rug out by watching vidoe of her coming home with a female at 2am and contacting her friend concerned that my wife might be having relations with that other girl. I didnt give myself a chance to talk to my wife about it. Thats where i wen wrong. But her adamency about divorce is not because of that one situation. She had to still be carrying a massive amount of doubt for that to be the last "straw"


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

tech-novelist said:


> If she had a submissive personality, she wouldn't have cut you off from sex and been "cold as marble" toward you.
> 
> Now this is not to say that her friends and family aren't poisoning her mind further, but your problem isn't them. It's her.


Why not? Submissive women put out on command?

Whats more likely is that she'said conflict avoidant and he's a little domineering, thus she doesn't know how to talk to him about things that bother her. 
People like that tend to bottle things up and explode.

He thinks this is sudden because until recently he was getting sex, but it's likely not that sudden for her.

This,is pretty common. Hbp thinks things are fine if he's getting sex, wife cuts off sex once she's done. 

I agree the issue is her, not her friends. Why would he assume she can't make her own decision anyway? Look now many people on TAM don't follow advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

tech-novelist said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > She came home with my wife, and my wife told me they slept in our marital bed together because this chick was intimidated and scared to sleep in one of the guest rooms
> ...


Apparently its completely normal for a 30 year old married woman to have other women over for sleepovers in the marital bed while the husband is out of town. Totally innocent and platonic. If you for one second think anything other than nothing at all, then you are being unreasonable, perverted, humiliating, etc

/endsarcasm


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> He was asking her about what her plans are after divorce. How long its gonna take. Letting her know she can call him if she needs to talk it out. "Im here for you" that kinda crap. He is an ex boyfriend from before I met her. They were "friends with benefits" back then apparently.
> 
> That was the point at which I DID address all the issues in our marriage and we both agreed to work on it together and in counseling. 6 weeks of progress, everybody happy, and then I pulled the rug out by watching vidoe of her coming home with a female at 2am and contacting her friend concerned that my wife might be having relations with that other girl. I didnt give myself a chance to talk to my wife about it. Thats where i wen wrong. But her adamency about divorce is not because of that one situation. She had to still be carrying a massive amount of doubt for that to be the last "straw"



Ok, you had me at ex bf and fwb. He has no place in your marriage and is clearly sniffing around her vulnerability.

That's what d0uchebags like that do.

What do you think were your core marital issues? Seems like you calling the friend was some kind of trigger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > He was asking her about what her plans are after divorce. How long its gonna take. Letting her know she can call him if she needs to talk it out. "Im here for you" that kinda crap. He is an ex boyfriend from before I met her. They were "friends with benefits" back then apparently.
> ...



Right. Thats the point at which i started gps tracking her car, using spyware to monitor her phone, etc. but at that point she knew i was watching so if anything was going on she likely buried it. In my mind if there is an OM influincing my wife right now its this one. There is also the possibility she has met someone else that im unaware of. Im half paranoid so i dont know what a logical scenario here looks like.

Out core marital issues have been her as a conflict avoider, people pleaser, submissive and tolerant combined with my dominant, indifferent, and critical personality. 

She feels like she has been beaten into a pulp emotionally by my personality and her walls are 10 feet thick because of it. I see many ways to work through this and get back to being happy but she says she cant put herself through it anymore.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

cutebunny said:


> @BuilderMan
> Thanks everyone for your support. I am reading each and every reply. Obviously I know my wife better than any of you do. I know that she has an echo chamber that consists of about 5 close female friends, a sister, mother, aunt, stepmother, and god mother that all despise me with a passion.
> 
> Is there a chance that given her submissive personality, combined with the amount of **** talking circulating amongst this support group she has...could that be the driving factor behind her adamency about divorce? In other words she has talked a big game to her peanut gallery and she now feels pressure from them to go through with this...could that be keeping her from thinking about her decision clearly instead of an OM situation? Knowing my wife as well as I do, I can plausibly see my wife's friends and family being as much or more of an influence on her than an OM.
> ...


YOU CAN BET YOUR LIFE THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON.

its a giant cheerleading pity party. 

I have been divorced for several years now....even thought the initial split was more than 5 years ago.

in the last year or so, by chance, I have ran into some of the friends in my XWW's circle. I was shocked by some of the things they told me my wife was saying about me.

how horrible I was, horrible father, looser and so forth. the ones that didn't know me or were here closest friends all areed with her and cheered her for "for finding happiness" with her affair...of course because "she deserved it"

the others that new me just kept their mouths shut and listened. 

funny..most of these women that new us both, all of the single ones and even some of the married ones...tried to sleep with me. guess I wasn't so horrible after all.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

So when word comes down the pipe to those people that she isnt getting full custody of our daughter and will be sharing her with me 50% of the time, will they kick the dirt and tell her "maybe you should work it out instead"?

I mean seriously, our daughter is my wife's LIFE. She couldnt care less about everything else. That peanut gallery has her convinced of this awesome life she will have where she runs off into the sunset with our daughter never to hear from me again. 

Mind you, that group consists of approximately ZERO people that have been where she is right now. Her sister cant keep a boyfriend for 5 minutes before putting him in the friend zone and going to find the next one. Her mom and aunt and god mother have all been divorced umpteen times, godmother has no children. All her friends are either 24 and single or married to men they hate. None of her loud mouth friends have kids. All of the friends she has that I get along with have children and happy marriages. Its the rest of these women that i dont get along with that are in my wife's ear 24/7 right now.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Why not? Submissive women put out on command?


I would think that was implied by the definition of submissive...

But only with the person they are submissive to.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

This thread reminds me of Gridcom.

Your best bet is to let her go. 

She's checked out.

It doesn't matter if she's cheating or not at this point.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> Right. Thats the point at which i started gps tracking her car, using spyware to monitor her phone, etc. but at that point she knew i was watching so if anything was going on she likely buried it. In my mind if there is an OM influincing my wife right now its this one. There is also the possibility she has met someone else that im unaware of. Im half paranoid so i dont know what a logical scenario here looks like.
> 
> Out core marital issues have been her as a conflict avoider, people pleaser, submissive and tolerant combined with my dominant, indifferent, and critical personality.
> 
> She feels like she has been beaten into a pulp emotionally by my personality and her walls are 10 feet thick because of it. I see many ways to work through this and get back to being happy but she says she cant put herself through it anymore.




Funny you said that, I think I said in another post that my feeling was she was conflict avoidant and you were domineering.

Being critical is especially bad to someone sensitive.....I'm like that. A critical personality causes me to put up walls. I can take suggestions but if the tone is nasty, sarcastic or condescending I can't take it.

Well, I can take it from a bunch of Internet strangers but not from my hb.....he's way too important to me. 

Did you never have an inkling that this might be a problem? Or had you gotten comfortable and used to her taking it,?

FWIW I've slept in the bed with a few different gf's and none of us are gay. Women see this kind of thing differently.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

o


tech-novelist said:


> I would think that was implied by the definition of submissive...
> 
> But only with the person they are submissive to.


I don't think that's what he meant. He meant she's conflict avoidant and he's critical and domineering, so she doesn't like to fight with him. 

But such people still build resentment and will come to a point where they explode.

At that point they are quite capable of cutting off sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think that's what he meant. He meant she's conflict avoidant and he's critical and domineering, so she doesn't like to fight with him.
> 
> But such people still build resentment and will come to a point where they explodeserve.
> 
> ...


Ok, with that definition I agree with you.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > Right. Thats the point at which i started gps tracking her car, using spyware to monitor her phone, etc. but at that point she knew i was watching so if anything was going on she likely buried it. In my mind if there is an OM influincing my wife right now its this one. There is also the possibility she has met someone else that im unaware of. Im half paranoid so i dont know what a logical scenario here looks like.
> ...


Yeah you hit the nail on the head with our personalities. It worked for a long time because she is a conflict avoider but also very tolerant. I felt like she had adapted to my personality and had no idea it was beating her up on a daily basis. Her personality to me is like a child almost. Very naive, susceptible, and gullible. That has bothered me for a long time because she takes everyones word for everything. I am very analytical and skeptical of most things. Believe half of what you see...,etc.

The two personalities are harmful to each other over time if you dont make a conscious effort to be empathetic. I see that now and I see how to maneuver my personality in a way that is complementary of hers. But its too late.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

BuilderMan

You asked if her group of cheerleaders might change their tune when they find out the little old divorce is not going exactly the way they all envisioned. That is entirely possible.

When enablers or cheerleaders are constantly reinforcing what she is doing her attitude hardens because she is being told how right she is.

A lot of marriages that might have survived the infidelity crumble because the "girlfriends" convince the WW that
(1) she was entitled
(2) affairs aren't that bad as long as it is only sex
(3) he will get over it
(4) just do what makes you happy
Women tend to discuss this crap with groups of their "buddies" more than men. Men may brag but they rarely sit in a living room drinking some wine talking about their "affair" with their friends.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> tech-novelist said:
> 
> 
> > I would think that was implied by the definition of submissive...
> ...


This is what happened.

I read into it as she wasnt interested in me sexually all of a sudden so her needs must be getting met elsewhere. That led me to snoop on her phone and discover these texts to other dude, which confirmed my gut feeling as accurate. I started assuming this guy is meeting her needs sexually and thats why shes not interested in it with me. So i set out to confirm this as a PA. Who knows if it is/was or isnt/wasnt. May never know.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> BuilderMan
> 
> You asked if her group of cheerleaders might change their tune when they find out the little old divorce is not going exactly the way they all envisioned. That is entirely possible.
> 
> ...


If there is any shred of hope i am clinging to at this point, this is it. Which is why I intend to fight this divorce every way I can. The less attractive the outcome looks for her the more likely she is to reconsider. At least thats my hope.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Yesterday she replied to a text I had sent her telling her how committed I am to the marriage and her response was "i have been working on the marriage for a long time. I cant do it anymore. Now im working on my happiness. Please just let me have that."

So to her, happiness is what she envisions the outcome of the divorce to be.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> If there is any shred of hope i am clinging to at this point, this is it. Which is why I intend to fight this divorce every way I can. The less attractive the outcome looks for her the more likely she is to reconsider. At least thats my hope.


Never say never. I was in a grimmer situation than you yet I am still married.... happily at that.

However, now is not the time to be weak.

Work on your shortcomings for this relationship or the next one.

Focus on yourself now. Hit the gym. Hang out with the guys.

Use the 180 to detach emotionally from your WW. 

Act pleasant and happy around her....fake it if you have to.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

builderman said:


> yesterday she replied to a text i had sent her telling her how committed i am to the marriage and her response was "i have been working on the marriage for a long time. I cant do it anymore. Now im working on my happiness. Please just let me have that."
> 
> so to her, happiness is what she envisions the outcome of the divorce to be.


no more of this!


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > If there is any shred of hope i am clinging to at this point, this is it. Which is why I intend to fight this divorce every way I can. The less attractive the outcome looks for her the more likely she is to reconsider. At least thats my hope.
> ...


Any tips on how to be pleasant and happy around her when i get handed divorce papers? Or when she boxes her stuff up to move out? Or when im dropping my daughter off with her because my time with her is up? This is the most depressing thing I can possibly imagine. Any pointers on how to fake it? Im not going to be good at this!


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

The 180

This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Also, how is she so strong all of a sudden. Somebody who cant decide what to cook for dinner one day and the next she is taking the lead in divorce proceedings, facing the same negative aspects of this as I am, and she doesnt seem to care. Like she is holding her nose and chugging it all down. 

Im serious when I say this. She clearly has not put much thought into what she is trading for her "happiness". There are other ways to skin this cat. She wont consider any of them, which tells me she hasnt considered this much either. Just doing what her friends tell her to do and not even considering the ramifications of her actions.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Also, how is she so strong all of a sudden. Somebody who cant decide what to cook for dinner one day and the next she is taking the lead in divorce proceedings, facing the same negative aspects of this as I am, and she doesnt seem to care. Like she is holding her nose and chugging it all down.
> 
> Im serious when I say this. She clearly has not put much thought into what she is trading for her "happiness". There are other ways to skin this cat. She wont consider any of them, which tells me she hasnt considered this much either. Just doing what her friends tell her to do and not even considering the ramifications of her actions.


She thinks you are too weak right now.

She thinks you will jump at any hint of reconciliation.

Quite frankly, she is in the driver's seat.

Flip the script. Expose her EA with exbf to friends and family.

Is exbf married, tell his wife. 

Freeze the finances.

Do it all with a smile on your face.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You may have just missed it. You have basically said you were domineering, in general, most people like this don't notice change in their spouse until it is too late.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

RE: exposure

I asked my atty about this specifically and he said right now, absolutely not. She will become enraged and cause her to crack the whip on the divorce. He also said he plans to use the evidence of an affair to diminish her credibility in court and possibly subpoena him to testify in court. So he said no go on the exposuse. Im dying to throw it in the face of all her supporters and sunshine pumping family. Id also like to burn OM's truck to the ground. My attorney has also advised me not to do this.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> RE: exposure
> 
> I asked my atty about this specifically and he said right now, absolutely not. She will become enraged and cause her to crack the whip on the divorce. He also said he plans to use the evidence of an affair to diminish her credibility in court and possibly subpoena him to testify in court. So he said no go on the exposuse. Im dying to throw it in the face of all her supporters and sunshine pumping family. Id also like to burn OM's truck to the ground. My attorney has also advised me not to do this.


What's best for your attorney is not necessarily what's best for you.

Attorney's always say don't do anything stir up trouble. Makes their job easier. 

If your goal is to get the best possible DIVORCE, then by all means listen to him.


----------



## Síocháin (Mar 11, 2016)

@BuilderMan, she is showing strength because she can now. I am not sure if you want to save your marriage because you love her, or if you just want her to follow your program. You don't seem to think she can make choices for herself and obviously don't care what she wants because you won't leave her alone. You would probably be surprised to know exactly what she has considered. And, just because she bent to your will, doesn't mean she will submit to her friends. You are not giving her any credit at all for having her own thoughts and feelings. You call them cheerleaders (which they may be) but they could just be supporters. It seems she hasn't had a lot of that. 

Your actions are driving nails into the coffin that is your marriage. Honestly, I think her actions speak volumes as to what she wants.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I hate the idea that there may be no affair, and all this is being seen by her as insane behavior. I realize now that my wife isnt gay and i overreacted to that ordeal. So that has me doubting my instincts on the possibility of there being a legit OM situation. Maybe she really is just burned out.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I hate the idea that there may be no affair, and all this is being seen by her as insane behavior. I realize now that my wife isnt gay and i overreacted to that ordeal. So that has me doubting my instincts on the possibility of there being a legit OM situation. Maybe she really is just burned out.


It doesn't matter.

Yes you over-reacted. Yes you should not have bluffed.

but the fact is she is checked out....

She has already cheated and that's grounds enough for divorce.

This fact alone would put any type "A" personality on edge.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Síocháin said:


> @BuilderMan, she is showing strength because she can now. I am not sure if you want to save your marriage because you love her, or if you just want her to follow your program. You don't seem to think she can make choices for herself and obviously don't care what she wants because you won't leave her alone. You would probably be surprised to know exactly what she has considered. And, just because she bent to your will, doesn't mean she will submit to her friends. You are not giving her any credit at all for having her own thoughts and feelings. You call them cheerleaders (which they may be) but they could just be supporters. It seems she hasn't had a lot of that.
> 
> Your actions are driving nails into the coffin that is your marriage. Honestly, I think her actions speak volumes as to what she wants.


I do love her and care about her. I cant fix her though. We have a child together and we owe that child our best possible efforts in marriage. She is leaving a lot on the table because the pursuit of her own happiness supercedes our daughters upbringing.

Edit: she doesnt see it that way though because in her mind our daughter will have one happy home and daddy can come pick her up anytime. F that!


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I do love her and care about her. I cant fix her though. We have a child together and we owe that child our best possible efforts in marriage. She is leaving a lot on the table because the pursuit of her own happiness supercedes our daughters upbringing.


I had a six and three year old when I went thru it. 

Happens all the time. Sux!

She either wants to work on the marriage or she don't.

You can't fix it.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You guys have a parent child relationship. I know you love her but you also don't think that highly of her as an adult, and are likely projecting a condescending attitude she can sense.

So now she's rebelling like a child.

This is what happens in this type of dynamic.

I too sense that you seem to think she can't make her own decisions. Is she an adult or your daughter you need to correct?

I can see that you're worried about your daughter, but how it is good for her if you don't treat her mother well?

How will you feel if you're daughter's hb treats her like you treat your wife? That's a good question to ponder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I guess my plan for now is to sit around waiting to get served, then contest the D, make her prove grounds for divorce, then go for nothing less than 50/50 custody. Hopefully by then she will have a cold hard look at what life is about to be like, at which time she recognizes my 180's and decides we need to figure something out because divorce isnt going to give her the happiness she is pursuing. Reconsider, go to counseling, pick up pieces and start over. Thats MY fairy tale...


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> You guys have a parent child relationship. I know you love her but you also don't think that highly of her as an adult, and are likely projecting a condescending attitude she can sense.
> 
> So now she's rebelling like a child.
> 
> ...


One of the reasons she has always said she was attracted to me was because I am a decisive person and she isnt. She is more than capable of making all her own decisions, she just never has. She has in fact avoided making decisions because she was scared of making the wrong one. Outside of the pain and humiliation of trying to uncover an affair, I have always treated my wife well. The problem is our wires get crossed and my "support" for her is percieved as control. Or if she has a problem and I try to find a solution, it is perceived as critical or that I am indifferent. Communication is the problem. I say red and she hears blue, and vice versa.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You're going to make her prove grounds for divorce?

And what grounds meet with your approval?

Do you get to decide?

How do you think strong arming her is going to work out for you?

What justifies a divorce can be subjective, and you can't force someone to stay married to you. 

Maybe you don't mean to but you come across like a bit of a bully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> You're going to make her prove grounds for divorce?
> 
> And what grounds meet with your approval?
> 
> ...


In Arkansas you have to have "grounds" for divorce. The court makes you prove them. We do not have "no fault" divorces here.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok, I just think that fighting her is going to blow up in your face.

Back off and give her what she wants, and maybe she'll come around.

Your perception of this is much different....you assume she'll be worse off divorced from you because you don't want a divorce and the marriage worked for you., so that's what you want to think. 

She may in fact be happier without you, but maybe not. You'll never know as long as you're fighting everything....you'll just come off as a bully and further justify her reasons.

As for your daughter you should get 50/50. In practice that may not always work so you'll need to be flexible, but she is your daughter. Here in Florida there is no joint custody, only primary and visitation. Courts find joint custody unstable.

But when you discuss it do not bully or use it as leverage to benefit you, which is what you've been doing. 

Calmly exlplain that you understand this is a sore subject but you are her father and entitled to as much time as her. You'll be flexible as circumstances warrant but it would be irresponsible of you to sign away joint custody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Also, how is she so strong all of a sudden. Somebody who cant decide what to cook for dinner one day and the next she is taking the lead in divorce proceedings, facing the same negative aspects of this as I am, and she doesnt seem to care. Like she is holding her nose and chugging it all down.
> 
> Im serious when I say this. She clearly has not put much thought into what she is trading for her "happiness". There are other ways to skin this cat. She wont consider any of them, which tells me she hasnt considered this much either. Just doing what her friends tell her to do and not even considering the ramifications of her actions.


I'm sure her toxic friends and family are feeding her delusion.

But this is actually good news for you, because it means you may be able to get through the divorce without getting taken to the cleaners.

The best deal you will ever get is during a time when she thinks everything is going to be rainbows and unicorns for her after the divorce.

Take advantage of this opening.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Not going to fight her per se, but I am going to stand firm on joint custody. Arkansas now prefers joint custody unless circumstances prevent it. Its something we are going to end up going to trial over unfortunately, unless somehow her atty can make it clear to her she will not get what she wants from the judge. It could even blow up in her face if she digs her heels in on full custody. 

I work from home and have a wide open, very flexible schedule. I have all the time in the world for my kid. My wife will work 5 days a week and will have evenings, nights, and weekends for our kid.

We both share parenting duties as a married couple (she will argue that she is the primary caregiver and has done more than I have). The truth is i take her to school, wife picks her up. I give her baths at night, wife gets her dressed in the morning. We both change diapers. We both feed her. We both provide food, clothing, toys, etc for her. There is no history of abuse, violence, neglect or anything like that on either side. We are both good parents. No reason joint custody will not work. Wife will have to make the argument that she can provide a better home than I can, or that I am somehow incapable as a parent. Wont happen.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> I could get on board with her just wanting to be done this easy if we didnt have a child. Our daughter is my wifes LIFE. So the idea that she is willing to give up half of that out of exhaustion or being "over" the marriage doesnt line up. I suspect its a combination of:
> 
> 1) another guy possibly waiting in the wings
> 
> ...


It didn't with my X wife. When they are in denial and history rewriting mode they tend to stay in the deep end


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Any tips on how to be pleasant and happy around her when i get handed divorce papers? Or when she boxes her stuff up to move out? Or when im dropping my daughter off with her because my time with her is up? This is the most depressing thing I can possibly imagine. Any pointers on how to fake it? Im not going to be good at this!


It takes time. Many of us went through this. You have to stop focusing on the present and the past........ now start working on the future for you and your daughter. This woman is gone and you are left. She is going to have a very cavalier attitude about the whole thing while your still trying to stop you head spinning from what just happened. You fake like it doesn't bother you and one day you will find you aren't faking it anymore and you don't care about her. 

Protect yourself and your daughter and work on your short term goals to get through this. Stop communicating with her...that's what the overpriced lawyer is for


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

It sounds like you would ultimately like her back, and work on your marriage together. She has said she is burned out on trying, and you recognize that you contributed to her burn out.

This might help you:

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

After you read that, and if you find it helpful, you can click "Back HOME to the Ultimate Husband" at the top of the page and find more articles. Listen to "The Mysteries of the Female Mind" which is on the home page.

I hope your marriage can be healed. It will take a lot on your part, as it might be too late, as you have already recognized.

If your marriage survives this ordeal, the next step will have to be your wife realizing she needs to ditch all her toxic friends and family. She will also need counseling to learn to deal with her fears and face conflict.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Also, how is she so strong all of a sudden. Somebody who cant decide what to cook for dinner one day and the next she is taking the lead in divorce proceedings, facing the same negative aspects of this as I am, and she doesnt seem to care. Like she is holding her nose and chugging it all down.
> 
> Im serious when I say this. She clearly has not put much thought into what she is trading for her "happiness". There are other ways to skin this cat. She wont consider any of them, which tells me she hasnt considered this much either. Just doing what her friends tell her to do and not even considering the ramifications of her actions.


This is what I am saying. This is new information to you that your processing. She has been thinking about this a long time and plotting this in her head. She has her support system in place and is moving forward. This is easier for her because she has been ready and you had better play catch up in a hurry.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

If you follow the above link MAKE 100% sure there isn't another man in the picture. You already have a family against you, you don't need a man whispering sweet nothings in her ear as you fight against two parties to save your marriage.

"The Hardened Wife" rarely works when another man is present.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Just hit the gym hard, eat/drink healthy, and see a therapist. You'll come out better and stronger, most of us have been there.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Any tips on what I can do at this point to confirm or deny the existence of OM?

I have no access to her phone, social media, etc. 

Hire a PI?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

GuyInColorado said:


> Just hit the gym hard, eat/drink healthy, and see a therapist. You'll come out better and stronger, most of us have been there.


Doing all of these things


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Other than financial ruin, losing half of my time with my kid for the rest of her life, and paying my wife to destroy our family....yeah it will be alright.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Start Here

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## Ralph Bellamy (Aug 8, 2016)

BuilderMan said:


> Other than financial ruin, losing half of my time with my kid for the rest of her life, and paying my wife to destroy our family....yeah it will be alright.


It beats being married to a cheater. She's cheating.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ralph Bellamy said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > Other than financial ruin, losing half of my time with my kid for the rest of her life, and paying my wife to destroy our family....yeah it will be alright.
> ...


You have no way of knowing if his wife is cheating.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Livvie said:


> You have no way of knowing if his wife is cheating.


He has already caught her once.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> RE: exposure
> 
> I asked my atty about this specifically and he said right now, absolutely not. She will become enraged and cause her to crack the whip on the divorce. He also said he plans to use the evidence of an affair to diminish her credibility in court and possibly subpoena him to testify in court. So he said no go on the exposuse. Im dying to throw it in the face of all her supporters and sunshine pumping family. Id also like to burn OM's truck to the ground. My attorney has also advised me not to do this.


The job of a lawyer is to get you divorced, not reconcile. Keep that in mind when the person is giving advice. Lawyers in general want the least amount of drama, maximize easy billing time and get a divorce done.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> I really subscribe to your perspective. My only hope here to shake this up is to take back control of the situation, if only for myself. After talking to her last night and giving her several opportunities to come clean with me, I may have just found the closure I need. If she has been cheating then she gets to live with her conscience. If she hasnt been cheating, she never went out of her way to give me a shred of confidence that she wasnt. Either way she has checked out, and the only hope for me to not feel raped is to put my pants on and end this on my terms.


I don't have a problem with this. 

You are giving her what she wants, just not entirely on her terms.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> My bluff was not a risk to anything. My wife wants a divorce and is completely checked out of the marriage. There is reasonable suspicion of another guy in the picture. There are 15 red flags that gave me cause for my behavior.
> 
> I understand if I am wrong about a current affair all this behavior appears a certain way. I also understand that a reasonable person that has nothing to hide would be more concerned about why their spouse feels the need to go to these extents, as opposed to being defensive and mad about it.


 How exactly is she supposed to prove that she is not having an affair? Proving a negative is next to impossible.

Most people would be furious if their spouse falsely accussed tehm of having an affair. Sure she texted some guy in the past. But if there is nothing presently going on, then how is she supposed to prove that.

Further, you went to a bachelor party. Now there are threads here on TAM in which most men said that the thought it was 100% WRONG for any woman to go to a bachelorette party before a wedding. Why? Because they think that they know that every bachelorette party is nothing more than an excuse for drunken debauchery. Well isn’t that what a bachelor party is? She has no idea what you were up to when you went out of town for this.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> How exactly is she supposed to prove that she is not having an affair?


Give her a lie detector. 

She cheated once and refuses to be an open book.

What other choice does he have but to let her go?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> Apparently its completely normal for a 30 year old married woman to have other women over for sleepovers in the marital bed while the husband is out of town. Totally innocent and platonic. If you for one second think anything other than nothing at all, then you are being unreasonable, perverted, humiliating, etc
> 
> /endsarcasm


Who was caring for your daughter when she was staying out to the wee mornings? 

As for the sleepover, there is nothing wrong with it per se...women do that sleeping in the same bed thing a lot. Must be some vestigial psycho leftover from our frontier cabin days....

Maybe she did try some muff-diving, maybe she didnt. 

Point is, it would have been nice if she had called or texted you and told you that her friend was staying over. And 2:00 a.m.? That is pretty fvcking late for a married woman to be staying out on the town. I'm sorry, the bra burners here on TAM can sue me for thinking that way. 

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is, she strikes me as a married woman who seems to think it is okay to act like a college student. She doesn't *act* like she wants to be married. I honestly don't think it has so much to do with you as it does she just wants her freedom. We tell people on here to judge a person by their actions and not by what they say. Well...

And talking all that sh!t about you with the ex-boyfriend? That is a bunch of bullsh!t, and is worth divorcing over right there. If there was only one reason to divorce her it would be that. 

She wants her freedom to date her ex-boyfriend, probably date other men, stay out partying on Friday nights, leave her kid with whomever so she can go out and have her fun... 

She is a suck-ass wife by any definition. She needs to grow the fvck up and stay single until she is 55 and over sowing her oats. 

Now as for you: you need to move on from this and learn some self control and curb this impulsiveness of yours. You fly off the handle too easily and you don't pause to think about what you are doing sometimes. That is also a sign of immaturity. You need to do some growing up yourself. We have watched you shoot yourself in the foot several times. Slow down and start being smart.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> In Arkansas you have to have "grounds" for divorce. The court makes you prove them. We do not have "no fault" divorces here.


Here are the grounds divorce allowed in your state
•Adultery
•Defendant committed a felony
•Habitual Drunkenness
•Living separate and apart continuously for a period of eighteen (18) months without reconciliation


Anuncontested divorce may also be based on one of the following fault grounds:

•impotence
•adultery
•mental illness for three consecutive years
•felony conviction for one spouse
•cruel treatment
•personal indignities, meaning a spouse has made life intolerable for the other
•habitual drunkenness, or
•refusing to support a dependent spouse.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ButtPunch said:


> He has already caught her once.


No, he caught her exchanging a few texts with some old boyfriend. There was nothing sexual in the texts and nothing indicating that they were meeting up or planning to meet up.

He put GPS on her car and found nothing.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ButtPunch said:


> Give her a lie detector.
> 
> She cheated once and refuses to be an open book.
> 
> What other choice does he have but to let her go?


Lie detector tests are unreliable.

What he found was not her cheating. She did exchange a few texts with an old bf. There was no sex talk, nothing except her complaining about her marriage. Not good. But that's not cheating.

What do you mean she refuses to be an open book? She is she not open about? I did not see anything in what he said where she is not being open.

He could have been smart and just let things calm down. I don't blame her for being royally pissed after he called her friends accusing her of have sex with some woman. Instead he has been excalating, trying to bluff her into confessing an affair he has no proof about.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Who was caring for your daughter when she was staying out to the wee mornings?


He already said that their daughter was at her mother's. He knew about it and was ok with it.



bandit.45 said:


> As for the sleepover, there is nothing wrong with it per se...women do that sleeping in the same bed thing a lot. Must be some vestigial psycho leftover from our frontier cabin days....
> 
> Maybe she did try some muff-diving, maybe she didnt.
> 
> ...


So it's ok for him to take off for days to go to a bachelor party, but its' wrong for her to go out with friends. 2am is not too late to be out, no for anyone. 

Do you think that the OP should text his wife to give her a blow by blow of the parting he was doing? What was he doing ta 2am? Were there strippers at the bachelor party? Were they all getting drunk? What was going on?

Insult me and call me and other women on her bra-burners all you want. But if he can go out and party, so can she. There should not be a one way street with this.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> So it's ok for him to take off for days to go to a bachelor party, but its' wrong for her to go out with friends. 2am is not too late to be out, no for anyone.
> 
> Do you think that the OP should text his wife to give her a blow by blow of the parting he was doing? What was he doing ta 2am? Were there strippers at the bachelor party? Were they all getting drunk? What was going on?
> 
> Insult me and call me and other women on her bra-burners all you want. But if he can go out and party, so can she. There should not be a one way street with this.


Yeah....

But he's a guy.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah....
> 
> But he's a guy.


Are you joking or being serious?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Are you joking or being serious?


Men can handle that late night stuff better than women. You know that. We're warriors...hunters.... 

And besides I don't think he mentioned coming back to the hotel with one of his buddies and spooning with him all night in the king bed? 

Did you BM? 

What did you get up to at the Bachelor party BM? Did you get a lap dance? Did a stripper rub her boobs in your face? What time did you get back to the hotel? Spill it.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Bad mouthing your husband to an ex bf is definitely divorce worthy.

Being secretive of the communication is emotionally cheating in my book.

And that's all he caught.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

*Wife of 5 years is &quot;done&quot;*

.


----------



## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

*Wife of 5 years is &quot;done&quot;*

.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

He just needs to let her go and move on. They both have issues, and she's made it clear she's not happy in the marriage.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

spinsterdurga said:


> Seriously @Bandit???!!!!!!!!!????!!!


Of course. It's proven.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Of course. It's proven.


Of course. Men do a bang up job of controlling themselves around drunken bimbos and strippers.

Cmon man, I thought you were better than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> I guess my plan for now is to sit around waiting to get served, then contest the D, make her prove grounds for divorce, then go for nothing less than 50/50 custody. Hopefully by then she will have a cold hard look at what life is about to be like, at which time she recognizes my 180's and decides we need to figure something out because divorce isnt going to give her the happiness she is pursuing. Reconsider, go to counseling, pick up pieces and start over. Thats MY fairy tale...


You know what makes this ironic. You've told us how childish your wife can be and then you want to enact childish behavior. Yes, making her prove "grounds" is just like a child throwing a temper tantrum for not getting their way.

If even a third of what you say is true, you need to act like an adult for all three of you.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

OP...

I hope you can answer some of the questions...in detail about your marriage history. Whats happening to you happens everyday...one party thinks its out of the blue...but it never us. There were undoubtedly many things over time that brought both of you to this point. 

You will need to ask yourself...what do you REALLY want....most steps you take will not help you if you dont have a goal, and end. Whats the end you want? Why do YOU want that end...dont say for your daughter...im asking about you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BuilderMan said:


> She communicates with me about as well as a pine tree. She is a conflict avoider like the PLAGUE. Her personality is so bright and optimistic its what originally attracted me to her. But thats the result of her avoidance of anything that even smells like conflict. Much less anything that would make her feel bad or portray her in a bad light.


This is interesting to me. I avoid conflict, too (but working on it). And from my perspective skimming through this thread, you sound a bit controlling. Your wife has done a lot wrong in the marriage, and has a lot of issues. But, you are controlling, and you will never ever EVER have a good relationship with any woman, if you are controlling. So, maybe figure out where this is coming from and work on yourself. You are very focused on your wife and all she is doing, but you are losing yourself in this, and your child needs a healthy and happy dad. If your wife has checked out, and it's been ongoing now, then you need to let her go. 

Praying you find some peace in your life with this.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Does she work at a hospital or medical office?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Let me ask you a few questions.

Define your use of domineering.
Who made all of the decisions when you first came together?
Were you domineering or had this behavior in any of your other short or long term relationships?
How were decisions made when you first were married and now?


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Of course. Men do a bang up job of controlling themselves around drunken bimbos and strippers.
> 
> Cmon man, I thought you were better than that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What are you talking about?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Forgot one other thing. If you are doing the 180 for her to notice, you are doing it wrong.


> at which time she recognizes my 180's


 It is for you and only you. It is not to fix your marriage, win a divorce, get at least 50% custody or manipulate your wife back into your arms. It is things for you too do to get out of limbo and wondering what to do next. Plus, the big one, stop chasing the spouse who wants out.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Men can handle that late night stuff better than women. You know that. We're warriors...hunters....
> 
> And besides I don't think he mentioned coming back to the hotel with one of his buddies and spooning with him all night in the king bed?
> 
> ...


What a crock. There have been several threads on TAM posted by men did not want their wife to either go to a bachelorette party or out with the girls. Just every guy who posted on the thread said that there is no way a married woman should ever either.

And no men don't handle it any better than women do.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Of course. It's proven.


Yep it's proven... the, men most likely to hit on women in a club are the married men.

Yea, men can handle it when their wives are not there spying on them. Any single woman knows this.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> He just needs to let her go and move on. They both have issues, and she's made it clear she's not happy in the marriage.


There are plenty of couples who have big blow out fights like this and patch them up, learn from them and go on to have a good marriage.

He was grossly wrong with accusing her of having sex with a woman, talking to her friends about it, and then accusing her of an affair that he has no proof of. God only knows what other over reactions he's pulled.

Instead of cheering him on to divorce, he needs people to calm him down so he can be the voice of reason here.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Builder,

The biggest red flag here is your dismissive reaction to the fact that her closest friends and family dislike you. 

Most folks triangulate. Meaning they combine their direct observations of you with the second hand stuff they hear. If they very much like you 'in person' and she's giving them mixed feedback: the good and the bad

They wouldn't hate you. If however her complaints, align with their direct observations that is a whole different ball game. 







BuilderMan said:


> Other than financial ruin, losing half of my time with my kid for the rest of her life, and paying my wife to destroy our family....yeah it will be alright.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ele,
All true. And it's ALSO true that she was recently trashing him to her old boyfriend who was pushing her to divorce him. Remaining in contact with an ex who is trying to blow up your marriage is a major betrayal. 

Sad thing is, by then I think she already wanted out of the marriage. He doesn't get the difference between being decisive and controlling and it's a huge difference. 




EleGirl said:


> There are plenty of couples who have big blow out fights like this and patch them up, learn from them and go on to have a good marriage.
> 
> He was grossly wrong with accusing her of having sex with a woman, talking to her friends about it, and then accusing her of an affair that he has no proof of. God only knows what other over reactions he's pulled.
> 
> Instead of cheering him on to divorce, he needs people to calm him down so he can be the voice of reason here.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MEM2020 said:


> Ele,
> All true. And it's ALSO true that she was recently trashing him to her old boyfriend who was pushing her to divorce him. Remaining in contact with an ex who is trying to blow up your marriage is a major betrayal.
> 
> Sad thing is, by then I think she already wanted out of the marriage. He doesn't get the difference between being decisive and controlling and it's a huge difference.


I agree that there are serious issues. I agree that what she was doing was wrong, but probably not really an affair. But still wrong.

But his actions are not good. They are getting in the way of things that could be done to fix this. She is not here so we don't have her side of things. But I would not be surprised if he could fix this with her.

And even if it cannot be fixed, he's blowing things up to that is not good for the divorce outcome he wants.

I get that he feels that his world is falling apart and that leads to people doing all kinds of panicky dumb things. 

At this point I agree that Builder needs to do the 180 until he has more control over his own actions/reactions.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> What a crock. There have been several threads on TAM posted by men did not want their wife to either go to a bachelorette party or out with the girls. Just every guy who posted on the thread said that there is no way a married woman should ever either.
> 
> And no men don't handle it any better than women do.


Ele I just want you to know I understand your anger and that you have been heard.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bandit.45 said:


> Ele I just want you to know I understand your anger and that you have been heard.


Don’t patronize me…. LOL…

I’m not angry. I’m astonished at the double standard that some here continue to hold onto so tightly.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Don’t patronize me…. LOL…
> 
> I’m not angry. I’m astonished at the double standard that some here continue to hold onto so tightly.


I don't. If it's wrong for a woman to go to a bachelorette party, then it's equally wrong for a man to go to a bachelor party.

(My opinion is that both are moronic and invitations to trouble.)


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> My attorney is advising me not to file.
> 
> "I recommend letting her file. If you file then you really need to be the one to move out, which I know you don't want to do. Plus, you don't want to be the one who files for divorce in a case in which you have a 2 year old. Let's let you be the good guy."


This is for us on TAM a person that has an opinion outside of your own mind. This is a pointer for me that the problem may be really only in your head. You should see a doctor to check things out. Because you have a 2 year old. Who knows you may have a medical condition that causes your brain to produce illusions. I really do not want to offend you, this happens to some people. Can also be me or you.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

So i am gathering from everyone that at this point, less is more. Do less. Talk less. Etc.

I do want to win my wife back, and I do see the situation for what it is. I know the odds are way against me at this point. But if getting my wife back is the goal then I need a plan built around that. Add all the disclaimers you want to it. I AM working on me in the mean time. I am seeing s therapist once a week, going to the gym, eating better, losing weight, hanging out with friends, even talking to a couple different women (non relationship/non sexual, its just nice to hear a females perspective). 

I am focused on my wife right now and what she is doing and I realize thats unhealthy. But i literally cant help it. I wake up in the middle of th night and my mind is racing. I cant stop feeling that she is hiding a big something. If I have a gut instinct, this is it. I know my wife better than anyone else on this earth, and this is not who she is. Yes she may be tired of trying to find happiness for herself in the marriage, but something has given her overwhelming confidence that the 
grass is greener elsewhere. I cant see any other explanation for all of the red flags.

So yes I am already working on myself. No its not making me feel any better because my life is being torn apart at the seams. No amount of leg presses at the gym changes the facts or my emotions. 

Im not following her around. Im not texting/calling her all the time. Im not begging or any of that. If I have been communicating with her about anything other than our child or finances its been just me listening and trying to get her to open up to me. Look, it may sound controlling and manipulative but all I am asking for out of this woman is the truth.
She doesnt have the decency or respect for herself or me to even provide me with the truth. Thats what has driven me to this extent and I hate it. I guess a big part of my efforts to bluff a confession from my wife came from the fact that, on some level I am letting her go and accepting that she isnt coming back. There is this conflict inside me that on one hand believes I have nothing to lose by trying it because I will be divorced either way, but on the other hand maybe if I had the whole picture to work with, the outcome of this situation could change OR I might find the closure I need to accept this and move on. I dont have closure or even a full understanding of what is going on and thats what I am chasing.

I also realize that she is protecting herself from anything that can be used against her in court. So to confess a full blown affair to me right now would be one of the dumbest things she could ever do from a legal perspective. So if I am seeking answers, she is probably the worst possible source at this point. 

My self esteem is at an all time low. I am literally being turned down by the love of my life. I feel like I am the type to have multiple rebound relationships now because i have a huge hole to fill, and that can only be filled by the companionship of a woman. All that other "working on me" stuff is fine but none of it does anything for my feelings of loneliness and rejection.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Also, regarding the 180 list, a lot of it seems centered around the concept of moving on. This is difficult/impossible for me right now for legal purposes. I have child custody to be concerned with which muddies the water as to how I am supposed to pull this off. I dont want to give anyone a shred of ability to say I am abandoning my family or any variation thereof. Furthermore it is damaging to my lawyers attempt to portray me as a guy that truly cares about his wife and just wants the best for his family.

How do I move on but do no damage here? The rest of it I can and am doing to the best of my abilities.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Another thing to consider:

The 180 list is written with the assumption that the reader has a pattern of behavior in the relationship of being the clinger, the follower, the chaser, and the attached one. My marriage has not been this way, believe it or not. I never have been the kind to constantly text her to check up on her and stuff. In fact its usually been her checking in with me. I have my own hobbies that she never got involved in and vice versa. We have separate groups of friends that we hang out with. I have been acting and truly being happy for a long time even though things were much worse than I knew. There are many aspects of our daily life in marriage that have played out similar to the 180 list. Hindsight being 20/20, that would explain her checking out a long time ago. I have been 180-ing in many ways our entire marriage (indifference towards her, etc).


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Builder,

If she has an attorney, she may be getting advice to not talk to you or tell you anything.

But in most states in US, infidelity in itself has no impact at all in divorce division of assets unless it can be tied to something that would be detrimental to childcare or the safety or parental supervision time.

She could tell you in most places that she was banging a football team with no consequences so I do not think that is it. I think the reason is she just does not want you to know what she is doing.

There is nothing wrong with trying to find out the truth on your part if it will help you with closure. But understand it may make this more painful.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Builder, what you said and how you feel I believe is probably exactly right.
You have got to control your anger and show nothing but calm resolution to handle this regardless of whether she wants a divorce or not. 
If she has this huge desire to divorce, don't even think twice--- divorce her. It will never be right with her if she doesn't still love you. Don't think deep down she does if she says she doesn't. That's probably the only thing she's being totally truthful about.
Yes, your life is going to change, but the good news is that there are tons of other women that WILL love you. And you will get to pick. 

Try to detach. Regardless of her feelings, good or bad, that's the best thing. If she gave you the ilybinilwy speech/-- divorce her. Matters not if she's cheating, and as said, probably wouldn't affect your case legally. Nobody cares if women cheat anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Thanks. I havent gotten the ILYBNILWY speech from her. I have gotten " i cant do this anymore, want out and to just move on" about a thousand times in the past 10 days. I dont remember hearing her say she doesnt love me but she has said she cant let herself love me anymore. Splitting hairs. She probably doesnt have the nerve to tell me and she probably on some level is scared to hurt me.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

The 180 has to be modified for kids.

You can't completely cut her out of your life.

Be cheerful, respectful but do not discuss your relationship with her.

Yes you made some mistakes but a wife who has already proven she 
isn't trustworthy would put any husband on high alert especially if they
are high strung to begin with.

Trust your gut. All that matters is one person cannot work on a marriage alone.

She wants out you give it to her. 

Are you the primary breadwinner? Lockdown the finances but keep the status quo.

She needs to miss your financial support, emotional support, etc. for you to have any chance
and this will take time. Find out discreetly if there is another man and use exposure to bust
her out of the fog.

Did you expose when you caught her emailing the exbf? Was the exbf married?

Long story short.....Give defiant people what they want.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yep it's proven... the, men most likely to hit on women in a club are the married men.
> 
> Yea, men can handle it when their wives are not there spying on them. Any single woman knows this.


I'm not a fan of double standards, because if nothing else they're bad for the spirit of partnership and harmony that a good marriage needs.

But if one must be applied here it's actually men that can't handle going out.....women can handle it just fine. 

Pretty much everything guys do involves thinking about their d!ck.....we've heard this all over TAM. Men are responsible for the majority of sex assaults and around the world routinely sexually assault little girls. Most porn is geared toward men and most everything they do involves giving some thought to getting off.

Men are programmed to spread their seed, remember?

So it's actually men that should be staying home. 

Women, otoh, make plenty of decisions that don't involve their sex life.

So while I think double standards are a bad idea and I don't ask anything of my hb that I wouldn't reciorocate, this particular double standard is applied in the wrong direction . I suppose it suits some men but it's not based on anything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> The 180 has to be modified for kids.
> 
> You can't completely cut her out of your life.
> 
> ...



So financial support is a good way to strong arm your wife back into the marriage?

How's that going to get him a fulfilling marriage?

Besides, he's said several times she works too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Don’t patronize me…. LOL…
> 
> I’m not angry. I’m astonished at the double standard that some here continue to hold onto so tightly.



Ele... they are both children. I was teasing. You know me better than that. 

OP is a big Man-child. He flies off the handle and is his own worst enemy. He needs to divorce her and then wait about ten years before he marries again. After he has learned some patience and self control. 

She is the same. She needs to decide whether she wants to be a wife or not. Just from where I'm sitting, she sound like a chick who wanted wedding, not a marriage. She keeps her old boyfriends strung out on a line behind her as a steady supply of ego kibbles. 

They both need to go their separate ways and grow the hell up.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I don't know if she's cheating. I don't know for a fact what you should do. I'm just saying what I think here. You'll have to make up your own mind.

You know she was talking to her ex. It doesn't matter about what. She was talking to him. She was talking to him about YOU and how lousy a husband you are in her mind. That is pretty telling about her mindset.
You still didn't see lovey dovey stuff toward him, but who knows in what other ways she's communicating with him or another man.

You don't have super evidence of any affair stuff.

However, what she is saying and what she is doing is VERY similar to what I'd expect a woman to say that has given her emotions to someone else.
She says she wants out, and is in a hurry about it. "I can't do this anymore". Do what????? Have you been abusing her? Do you yell at her constantly, not take care of bills, get drunk, gamble, chase women? Just what is it she can't do????
Usually, what she "can't do" is be with her husband when her mind is on another man. But it could be she just wasn't happy and is tired of trying to fight the negative feelings for you. Sometimes, I think some people are just not able to ever be content and are always going to be unhappy about something. Your wife may be like that. But usually if they're in a hurry, it's for a reason like another man. Otherwise why the big hurry?

She is going out with girlfriends and staying out until 2 am. What for? What is she looking for? 

You going to bachelor parties and being gone a whole weekend when your marriage is in hot water? That's a mistake, I think.
You going off on her and demanding divorce and bluffing for a confession? I think you see that was a mistake.
You looking for her to be hurt when you told her you wanted a divorce and saw the look on her face? DON'T DO THAT! you need to have her thinking you are hurt (you are) and can't move on, and are sad, and a big baby and feel guilty about this divorce. You don't want her mad as a hornet and trying to get back at you for enraging her. Got to be cool about this.

And, you do want her back! So chill the f out, don't chase, but don't anger or try to pull things out of her. You're NOT going to MAKE her give you any info, come back, or anything else. The harder you pull, the faster she will run and GTFO. 
You probably don't need her back at this point. She's just not likely to ever be able to be happy with you. Once they throw "the switch", that sucker stays in the off position.

I would truly detach, and try to improve yourself so you appear happy. The best honey to attract flies is looking happy and being happy. You CAN find a way to be happy if you start working on goals that are unrelated to her. IT's hard, but your best chance to get her back, and the best chance to prepare yourself should you have to move on-- which is most likely.

I personally think you'd be better off divorcing, detaching, and working on your relationship should she WANT to reconcile after. Unless she is really wanting to reconcile, you're wasting your time on her anyway.
GOod luck,


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> So financial support is a good way to strong arm your wife back into the marriage?
> 
> How's that going to get him a fulfilling marriage?
> 
> ...


Comes straight out of Dr. Harleys book the ladies love so much.

It's not strong arming it's separating the finances and protecting yourself and taking away the things that she may be taking for granted.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> What are you talking about?


I was going to tell you not to play dumb, but since you've said you're teasing I take it all back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> Comes straight out of Dr. Harleys book the ladies love so much.
> 
> It's not strong arming it's separating the finances and protecting yourself and taking away the things that she may be taking for granted.


I personally am unfamiliar with his book. 

As a woman though I doubt it's going to yield a wife who's hot for you, only a wife who thinks she's financially better off with you. 

If that's what you want then fine.

Protecting oneself is a separate issue and is something everyone should do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> Thanks. I havent gotten the ILYBNILWY speech from her. I have gotten " i cant do this anymore, want out and to just move on" about a thousand times in the past 10 days. I dont remember hearing her say she doesnt love me but she has said she cant let herself love me anymore. Splitting hairs. She probably doesnt have the nerve to tell me and she probably on some level is scared to hurt me.



Dude, you know what? Just stop talking to her. You're like Obama: every time you open your mouth the stock market tumbles. She doesn't care if you love her. It isn't working for her. It's over brother. Stick a fork in this sham of a marriage of yours. You don't trust her, you act like a teenager, and she's no better. 

STFU and stay away from her until you get yourself sorted out. You are a bare nerve right now. Stick with your lawyer and concentrate on getting your ducks in a row.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I was going to tell you not to play dumb, but since you've said you're teasing I take it all back.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You and Ele need to learn when I'm being a smartass and when I'm serious. If it sounds dumb, I'm probably just jerking your chain. 


Waaaaaay to much vitriol on TAM. Why can't we loosen up and tease each other once in a while?


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I personally am unfamiliar with his book.
> 
> As a woman though I doubt it's going to yield a wife who's hot for you, only a wife who thinks she's financially better off with you.
> 
> ...


You been here how long and are not familiar with His Needs Her Needs or Marriage Builders.

PS I am not a fan btw


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She is on me about buying her a car right now. We sold her last car and had a new one on order. Then she dropped this bomb in my lap and decided she didnt want the car we ordered. Now she is wanting me to give her enough down payment money to buy the car she wants and can keep the monthly payment where she wants it.

What do I do? She needs to buy a car, but i really dont want any part of it. I realize i will be giving her money when we split but as of today i havent been served and that makes this marital debt. I am going to be on the hook for half of what we owe on this car.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She works part time and makes 20k a year. I work from home full time and make 200k. She i going to be rich before this is over.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

She has a job.

She can buy her own car. 

You are getting divorced.

She can buy it in her name only.

Only five years married means little or no alimony.

OTOH

Give her the money from the last car sale not a penny more if your
lawyer thinks you need to.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> She has a job.
> 
> She can buy her own car.
> 
> ...


I just told her she needs to go ahead and file for D if she hasnt already.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Her reply "im trying to do one thing at a time here"


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> She is on me about buying her a car right now. We sold her last car and had a new one on order. Then she dropped this bomb in my lap and decided she didnt want the car we ordered. Now she is wanting me to give her enough down payment money to buy the car she wants and can keep the monthly payment where she wants it.
> 
> What do I do? She needs to buy a car, but i really dont want any part of it. I realize i will be giving her money when we split but as of today i havent been served and that makes this marital debt. I am going to be on the hook for half of what we owe on this car.


Exactly. Why would you even consider it? 

Don't do it. This is why you need to file for separation and divorce asap. Once you file, you are no longer liable for any joint debt she may rack up. 

She wants you to underwrite this car, so that if things don't work out for her and she has to dump it, you will be left holding the bag for it. And what if she is late on payments? Dude that will screw your credit up! 

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. Tell her "No." Beautiful word "no": two letters, short, simple, powerful....

She is a big girl. If she wants her freedom, give her her freedom: physically, emotionally and financially.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> I just told her she needs to go ahead and file for D if she hasnt already.


NO! You file! 


Again, you talk without thinking first. Take control and quit being a sissy about this. Take charge and be a leader, even if this is the last leadership role you will play in this marriage. 

This prevarication sh!t you pull is one reason she lost respect for you.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She doesnt want me on the note. She wants me to put 10k down on a 26k car and finance the remainder in her name.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> You and Ele need to learn when I'm being a smartass and when I'm serious. If it sounds dumb, I'm probably just jerking your chain.
> 
> 
> Waaaaaay to much vitriol on TAM. Why can't we loosen up and tease each other once in a while?


Yeah, you're right.

I should know you better than that. 

It's easy to forget with so many who really do think that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> NO! You file!
> 
> 
> This prevarication sh!t you pull is one reason she lost respect for you.


He is following his Lawyer's advice. He needs to follow it here or get a new Lawyer.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > I just told her she needs to go ahead and file for D if she hasnt already.
> ...


Atty is advising me to let her file because i dont want the divorce


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> She doesnt want me on the note. She wants me to put 10k down on a 26k car and finance the remainder in her name.


How much did you sell her old car for?


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> She doesnt want me on the note. She wants me to put 10k down on a 26k car and finance the remainder in her name.


"No."


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> You been here how long and are not familiar with His Needs Her Needs or Marriage Builders.
> 
> PS I am not a fan btw


I've heard of them but have not read any, so I really don't know that much. 

Just a few tidbits that people post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> > NO! You file!
> ...


I have a very reputable and highly respected atty so i need to follow his advice and let her file.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> Also, regarding the 180 list, a lot of it seems centered around the concept of moving on. This is difficult/impossible for me right now for legal purposes. I have child custody to be concerned with which muddies the water as to how I am supposed to pull this off. I dont want to give anyone a shred of ability to say I am abandoning my family or any variation thereof. Furthermore it is damaging to my lawyers attempt to portray me as a guy that truly cares about his wife and just wants the best for his family.
> 
> How do I move on but do no damage here? The rest of it I can and am doing to the best of my abilities.


Pull this Off, Win your wife back, worrying about what others think blah blah blah. That's how you lose if we are going for the rah rah rah jock talk. 

This is your life, it is not a game. How is it damaging to support your family, talk to your wife about the kids ONLY, pay your bills, live in your house, but not entertain her BS and manipulation? How does ANYTHING in the 180 make you a crappy father?


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Personally I think whatever her old car sold for should be applied to the new 
car (not a penny more) as long as your name doesn't go on the note.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

ButtPunch said:


> Personally I think whatever her old car sold for should be applied to the new
> car (not a penny more) as long as your name doesn't go on the note.


Agreed - this would be most fair.

Take whatever equity you had from the old car, add in some fair X% factor for depreciation, and use that as her down payment, then she can choose a car that fits her budget with regard to payment.

If that ends up being close to 10K, just do it to remove a hassle from your life.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> She doesnt want me on the note. She wants me to put 10k down on a 26k car and finance the remainder in her name.



*"NO"*


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah, you're right.
> 
> I should know you better than that.
> 
> ...


I'm in the middle for the most part. 

Men are pigs. Yes.

But women need to get over themselves also.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> He is following his Lawyer's advice. He needs to follow it here or get a new Lawyer.


You and I both know that is bad advice. I believe in taking the battle to the enemy. 

But he needs to do what he needs to do.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've heard of them but have not read any, so I really don't know that much.
> 
> Just a few tidbits that people post.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_*His Needs, Her Needs* _is actually a good read. It is straightforward with no snake oil. I think you would like it. 

_*The Five Love Languages*_ is a good one too.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

How much did you get for her first car that was just sold? Write her a check for half that amount, and let her use it on her next car...which she completely finances on her own.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> How much did you get for her first car that was just sold? Write her a check for half that amount, and let her use it on her next car...which she completely finances on her own.


Bold move (I like it) but sets him up as petty and the Lawyers would make him pay her half his vehicles worth.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

We were upside down in her old car. Owed 28, sold it for 25. I came 3k out of pocket to free up the title. No equity


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Atty is on board with telling her no. He said its unreasonable for her to ask you to invest in a new asset while she is threatening divorce at the same time. As long as she has transportation you are doing your job.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> We were upside down in her old car. Owed 28, sold it for 25. I came 3k out of pocket to free up the title. No equity


NO way then. She can buy her own car.

Welcome to divorce.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> She is on me about buying her a car right now. We sold her last car and had a new one on order. Then she dropped this bomb in my lap and decided she didnt want the car we ordered. Now she is wanting me to give her enough down payment money to buy the car she wants and can keep the monthly payment where she wants it.
> 
> What do I do? She needs to buy a car, but i really dont want any part of it. I realize i will be giving her money when we split but as of today i havent been served and that makes this marital debt. I am going to be on the hook for half of what we owe on this car.


You are still married. She gets a car. Not the most expensive one out there but a good reliable car. It has to be a safe and reliable car because she will be driving your daughter around in it. Plus, by law, 50% of the marriage assets and income are also hers. If you try to prevent her from getting a car, a judge will order that she gets a car. I’ve seen this happen.

Also, if she does not have a car, how is she going to get to work? You will end up ordered to pay her more alimony if she loses her job because she cannot get there.

What access does she have to money? Is there a joint account where all of you’re and her income goes into? Or do you control your money and she has no access to marital assets and income?

ETA: Your attorney told you to be the good guy so that you look good to the judge. So you get her the car. Put it in her name and you co-sign it. The last thing you want is for her to have to go court and get a judge to order you to give her get the car so that she can take care of your daughter and drive to work. You will pay your attorney thousands to go to court, plus you will end up buying the car. And the judge will not see you as the wronged party.

Further, she could just go down today and buy the car without you being involved.. using your income to support her purchase.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> She works part time and makes 20k a year. I work from home full time and make 200k. She i going to be rich before this is over.


How is she going to be rich before (or once) this is over?

She is legally entitled to 50% of the marital assets you both accumulated during the 5 years of your marriage. She is not entitling to anything you had before marriage or any inheritance you might have.

You have only been married 5 years. She most likely won’t get a penny in alimony after the divorce. It’s a short term marriage. At most she might get alimony for half of the length of the marriage, 2.5 years.

Unless the two of you accumulated millions in 5 years, she’s not getting rich.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

our funds are separate and have been since day 1. I pay all the bills and provide everything out of my income. She pays for nothing and keeps all her cash for spending money. 

She has a rental car at the moment. Im paying for it and will continue to do so. Everything will be liquidated at some point and then she can go buy whatever she wants. Im not handng her $10k on her way out the door. That would be like me going to the casino and burning $10k today. She can pay her atty to take it from me. She still hasnt filed, she is still wearing a wedding band, and she is still trying to get me to support her financially. Meanwhile talking divorce and full custody to anyone that will hear it. Im growing tired of the game at this point. Get off the fence!


----------



## Ralph Bellamy (Aug 8, 2016)

BuilderMan said:


> our funds are separate and have been since day 1. I pay all the bills and provide everything out of my income. She pays for nothing and keeps all her cash for spending money.
> 
> She has a rental car at the moment. Im paying for it and will continue to do so. Everything will be liquidated at some point and then she can go buy whatever she wants. Im not handng her $10k on her way out the door. That would be like me going to the casino and burning $10k today. She can pay her atty to take it from me. She still hasnt filed, she is still wearing a wedding band, and she is still trying to get me to support her financially. Meanwhile talking divorce and full custody to anyone that will hear it. Im growing tired of the game at this point. Get off the fence!


She needs about a dozen doses of reality. File for divorce.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> our funds are separate and have been since day 1. I pay all the bills and provide everything out of my income. She pays for nothing and keeps all her cash for spending money.
> 
> She has a rental car at the moment. Im paying for it and will continue to do so. Everything will be liquidated at some point and then she can go buy whatever she wants. Im not handng her $10k on her way out the door. That would be like me going to the casino and burning $10k today. She can pay her atty to take it from me. She still hasnt filed, she is still wearing a wedding band, and she is still trying to get me to support her financially. Meanwhile talking divorce and full custody to anyone that will hear it. Im growing tired of the game at this point. Get off the fence!


Paying for a rental during the entire divorce process sounds ridiculously expensive.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > She works part time and makes 20k a year. I work from home full time and make 200k. She i going to be rich before this is over.
> ...


We have assets that total about $1M and debt that totals about $250k. We both had nothing when we got married. I have contributed to and provided everything we have. She has contributed a new hair dryer, purses, and shoes to herself. She will get $350K out of me plus about $4k a month in child support. She has never made more than $2k in a month of her life. She will have $6k month income and $350k in the bank and no debt. At 30 thats pretty good for a hair stylist.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > our funds are separate and have been since day 1. I pay all the bills and provide everything out of my income. She pays for nothing and keeps all her cash for spending money.
> ...


Dont care. Its a drop in the bucket compared to what im going to be paying out in the D. It will just be that much less to split. She wanted this. Thats what i keep reminding myself. She wanted this instead of trying to work on our marriage. Her problems are not my problems anymore.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Atty is advising me to let her file because i dont want the divorce


You need a two prong strategy here.
1)	You want to save the marriage. Refusing to help her get a car will hurt this goal because needs a car. You refuse the car, you are a jerk. You work with her to make sure she has safe, reliable transportation, you are the good guy who did the right thing by her.

2)	If this goes to a divorce, you need to do things that minimize fighting. Believe me you do not want to fight with her during a divorce. It will make both of your attorneys rich and you and she will lose. Plus, guess who will be paying her attorney fees…YOU. Her attorney will most likely ask that her legal fees be paid out of marital assets and income. That is because the court wants to make sure that the two of you have equal access to legal representation. So why would be pay to fight yourself?

Go ahead and help her get the car. If this does indeed end up in a divorce, the car and the down payment end up on her side of the balance sheet. If you two have any saving and investments, she’s getting 50% of it. So put the $10,000 down payment on her side of the divorce balance sheet. You would be giving it to her anyway.

Talk to your attorney about this. I have no doubt that he will agree with what I said here. I’ve done work on divorces, on the financial end of them. I’ve seen this play out many times.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Atty is on board with telling her no. He said its unreasonable for her to ask you to invest in a new asset while she is threatening divorce at the same time. As long as she has transportation you are doing your job.


You sold her car. So how does she have transportation if her car was sold?


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't see $4K a month child support with 50/50 custody either.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> We have assets that total about $1M and debt that totals about $250k. We both had nothing when we got married. I have contributed to and provided everything we have. She has contributed a new hair dryer, purses, and shoes to herself. She will get $350K out of me plus about $4k a month in child support. She has never made more than $2k in a month of her life. She will have $6k month income and $350k in the bank and no debt. At 30 thats pretty good for a hair stylist.


based on this, just go buy her the dang car. It'll come out of her share of assets anyway.

I'd suggest just paying for it, but you can seem to be a "better guy" if you tell her that getting the loan is a good thing for her going forward to help her establish a more robust credit profile - which is actually true, if you've been handling all the financials.

Give her the money, just make sure your attorney has it noted in the assets.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I agree with ELE and dubsey.....just give her the dang money
and have it noted by your Lawyer This is assuming you have that 
kind of cash laying around in a bank somewhere.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Builder,

Your wife, for reasons unknown at this point, wants a divorce, and has rejected all of your efforts, both kind and forceful, to talk it out and reconcile.

You will eventually find out if there is another man involved in some way or not. She has given you some red flags but nothing firm. on the other hand, she has given you absolutely NOTHING to indicate any willingness to stay married to you.

At this point, with the difference in your incomes, it is time to 100% listen to your attorney. His job is to not give a **** about all the personal stuff and protect YOU in this transaction. 

If your attorney says do not get her a car, and I agree, then listen to him. if he says buy her a Mercedes, then do it ( only kidding).

You job now is to be as amicable as possible for your child. But that does not mean you are required to make this process just a pleasant little old experience for her. She initiated it all and so far you have borne the brunt of the **** sandwich. You owe her NOTHING at this point but legal formalities and good parenting. And a rental car, which is most likely less than two years old, is safe enough and reliable enough transportation until she can buy whatever the hell she wants to out of the money she gets that you provided.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your attorney might have told you to not help her get the car because of the attitude you were taking.

But one thing for sure, he's going to make money off you not helping her get a car right now. He knows that this will end up an item in court. 

Call him back, tell him that you really think it's prudent to help her get the car as in the end, it will be less money out of your pocket... with lower court and lawyer fees and with it will make you look like the good guy. See what he says.

It's not going to hurt you in any way to get her the car and not make her have to fight you for it. It's going to hurt you financially to not do it.

And not doing it will hurt your chances of her deciding against the divorce. The more you are antagonistic towards her, the worse the chances are of her deciding against the divorce. Tell the attorney that too.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

This is the path I am taking. I owe her nothing until ordered by the court. Im not buying her a new car until she files and then everything becomes documented. Her rental is a 2015 chevy cruse. Safe, reliable, economical. Its not the mercedes she is used to driving but hey, im facing a financial crisis and cant afford those types of luxuries. She has been telling me she is going for full custody of our daughter. Thats the biggest middle finger she can put up. Im not going to run out and buy her a new car because this is war. You dont buy your enemies gifts. This woman has cheated on me, lied to me, continues to hide the truth from me, is destroying our family and trying to take my daughter away from me, and yall want me to buy this B a new car???


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Your attorney might have told you to not help her get the car because of the attitude you were taking.
> 
> But one thing for sure, he's going to make money off you not helping her get a car right now. He knows that this will end up an item in court.
> 
> ...


Who buys into this garbage about "making you look like a good guy" in court? I'm no attorney, but I don't believe that stuff. I think the judge just does whatever is the standard thing. I doubt they give a rats rear about who is right or wrong. They think about what's best for the kids and just do the "legally fair" split thing whether one of you seems like a good person or not.

I know, I'm not an attorney. I'd like to hear more on this since I hear it a lot. I've never seen it work, but....


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> and yall want me to buy this B a new car???


Giving her the 10K for the down payment on a 25k car will cost you less than fighting over the car.

You always have to give up a few pawns to set up the big pieces.

Just start documenting everything and only communicate about your kid.


----------



## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Builder,

Your last sentence in your last post says it all. 
(1) cheated
(2) lied
(3) stonewalled
(4) destroyed family
(5) trying to take your child

Maybe I missed something but the above is enough to tell her she is lucky she is driving something with an engine in it and if it was not for your child she would be walking right now.

I do not think anywhere near the majority of us are advising you to buy her anything but a one way ticket out of your life .


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Builder,
> 
> Your last sentence in your last post says it all.
> (1) cheated
> ...


This what detachment feels like to me. I have to get mad to cut ties. I need to stay mad for many reasons throughout this deal.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My ex went into our divorce with the idea that it was a war. I offered to go with exactly what the law said, 50/50 custody, 50/50 split on debt and assets. He fought for 100% custody, tried to hide money, etc.

In the end the legal fees were about $100,000. He got less than I was initially offering. It was the judge, not me that did that. You could easily end up with legal fees that eat up a good portion of your assets. 

You need to be working on de-escalation here. I’m saying this out of concern for YOU.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Evinrude58 said:


> Who buys into this garbage about "making you look like a good guy" in court? I'm no attorney, but I don't believe that stuff. I think the judge just does whatever is the standard thing. I doubt they give a rats rear about who is right or wrong. They think about what's best for the kids and just do the "legally fair" split thing whether one of you seems like a good person or not.
> 
> I know, I'm not an attorney. I'd like to hear more on this since I hear it a lot. I've never seen it work, but....


The standard thing is that she gets to have a car. She needs one. They have the assets for her to have a car. She's going to either get a car or the money to buy one.

On the topic being the good guy... my ex was a complete a$$ during our divorce as escalated all kinds of things.

I offered 50/50 custody. He was going for 100% custody. The court gave him 30% custody because his behavior was way out of line. They ordered him to go to counseling until the counselor said he was stable enough to have more custody. After two years of counseling custody was changed to 60/40. The counselor, at a place called "Fathers and Family" reported to the court that he should not have any more custody that that.

He was also playing games about assets and liabilities because to him, it was a war. It hurt him there too.

I'm not saying to be a kiss ass. But it's not going to hurt him to help her get a car now. If she has a good attorney, the first thing that they will do is to demand that he hand over to her 50% of all community assets. It could happen so fast that his head spins. The reason that she can give is that all through the marriage he has denied her access to marital assets. And she needs access to enough money to buy a car and take care of herself and their child. Interim child support and interim spousal support can also be put in play within a week or two after she files. And right now she has cause because he has always controlled marital assets. I've seen this happen.. withing the first month of the divorce process. This is why I'm suggesting that he works to de-escalate things.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Newsflash 

100% custody is a joke

You are the one working from home not her.....

She has a fulltime job away from home

You will have a battle on your hands anyway should she want full custody

Why does she want full custody?

$4000.00 a month that's why. 

Lawyer probably informed her that alimony was off the table. Lawyer also found
out how much money was up for grabs and told her he could get her custody.

If this turns into a custody dispute, the car thing is trivial.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> This what detachment feels like to me. I have to get mad to cut ties. I need to stay mad for many reasons throughout this deal.


Yes, absolutely get mad and stay mad. Mr. Nice guy tactics don't work with her. Definitely don't get her a car, make her walk if that's what's necessary. Divorce is war, she started it, she wrecked your life and now is trying to take everything and everything that is left. Go for full custody of your daughter. Use VARs to get further evidence against her. Play dirty, she already has.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She sent me an unsolicited text just now saying she didnt want to split hairs and she wanted this to be amicable but if i want to be difficult then thats what we can do. 

I replied that i dont want a divorce at all. I want to rebuild our marriage and raise our daughter together.

She said "you have made that clear. Let me rephrase that. You have made that clear woth your words"

I said: 
My actions will speak for themselves in time. In the interim all I have is words. I dont want a divorce for many reasons. But i am accepting that its not up to me and I have to respect your decision wether I agree with it or not. 

She said "thank you"


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

What was behind the decision to keep your finances separate when you both came in with nothing?

You seem to view most of the money as your money, but the courts won't. 

She only has access to "her" money? Doesn't sound like much of a partnership. Also supports the argument that you don't see your wife as much of a partner.

You comment that she has purses and shoes and you pay everything, but what else do you think will happen if you assume the dad role and don't involve her in anything financial? One which isn't involved in finances won't have a reasonable grasp of them. 

And she's "just" a hairdresser? If that mattered to you then you were free to marry someone with more income potential. Further supports that you don't think that highly of her. This kind of thing creates a toxic environment.

Your money isn't your money, it's marital money. 

And wth do you do that you work at home and make that much money?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> We have assets that total about $1M and debt that totals about $250k. We both had nothing when we got married. I have contributed to and provided everything we have. She has contributed a new hair dryer, purses, and shoes to herself. She will get $350K out of me plus about $4k a month in child support. She has never made more than $2k in a month of her life. She will have $6k month income and $350k in the bank and no debt. At 30 thats pretty good for a hair stylist.


Seriously, I almost stopped reading after "we both had nothing" and you said "I provided everything." Seriously, get over yourself before she rakes you over the coals. I asked all of the questions earlier to see where your head was at. I do not like to be biased, but the more you type the less I believe she was childish and feel more that she feared you. I know you are hurt and angry, but some of the comments in the post are demeaning and degrading.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> She sent me an unsolicited text just now saying she didnt want to split hairs and she wanted this to be amicable but if i want to be difficult then thats what we can do.
> 
> I replied that i dont want a divorce at all. I want to rebuild our marriage and raise our daughter together.
> 
> ...


Anything less than 50/50 custody is war.

Quit discussing the relationship with her.

Anyways if this costs alot she will be the one losing. You 
will continue to be a high earner while she quite frankly will
be at poverty level. So fight this to the bitter end. 

She has more to lose than you.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > She sent me an unsolicited text just now saying she didnt want to split hairs and she wanted this to be amicable but if i want to be difficult then thats what we can do.
> ...


This guy gets it


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Doesn't matter what he gets, it is when you decide to "get it" when it counts. All the advice he is giving you comes straight out of the 180.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

ButtPunch said:


> Newsflash
> 
> 100% custody is a joke
> 
> ...


He said that 50/50 is automatic in his state. His lawyer told him that he is getting 50/50. If his lawyer knows what he's talking about (I assume he does.) there is no fight to be had.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Lawyer tells me the courts here "prefer" joint custody if the parents are reasonable and amicable. Also imadvised that grounds for divorce have no bearing on child support.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Another thing to consider:
> 
> The 180 list is written with the assumption that the reader has a pattern of behavior in the relationship of being the clinger, the follower, the chaser, and the attached one. My marriage has not been this way, believe it or not. I never have been the kind to constantly text her to check up on her and stuff. In fact its usually been her checking in with me. I have my own hobbies that she never got involved in and vice versa. We have separate groups of friends that we hang out with. I have been acting and truly being happy for a long time even though things were much worse than I knew. *There are many aspects of our daily life in marriage that have played out similar to the 180 list. Hindsight being 20/20, that would explain her checking out a long time ago. I have been 180-ing in many ways our entire marriage (indifference towards her, etc). *


Can you explain the bolded part? 

In what ways have you been indifferent towards her for your entire marriage? 

And what is the “etc” at the end of that sentence? What else is there?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Lawyer tells me the courts here "prefer" joint custody if the parents are reasonable and amicable. Also imadvised that grounds for divorce have no bearing on child support.


You have no evidence that she committed adultery anyway. Her talking on the cell phone with some guy is not adultery. It’s not a good thing. But it is not legally adultery.

If you don’t want the divorce, then stop telling her to file for divorce, stop texting her about it. 

You have already let her know that you do not want it. So let it go. I know it’s hard to let it go. But the more you stir it up, the more likely she is to file. So far she has not filed. It does not sound like she really is all that interested in filing. Give it a time frame… if she has not filed in 2-3 weeks and is still going on about divorce then re-evaluate what you want to do. But stop egging her on with texts, etc.

Just to give you some hope… I know a couple who had a big blowout because she caught him cheating. He ended the affair. But she filed for divorce. After the divorce was final, he refused to move out of their townhome. So they lived together as roommates… and over time they started to date again. About 3 years after the divorce they re-married. It’s been 25 years since they remarried. They are still together and very happy. There are all kinds of marriages out there.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I made a point to stay gone all day today from the house. When i walked in at 5 my wife said "where have you been all day?"

I said "everywhere"

She said "like where"

I told her "clarksville" 
- side note. I do commercial real estate development for a few different retailers. Im always being sent different places to look for new store locations. Just so happens we have 3 in our back yard (arkansas). Clarksville also happens to be the home town and frequent visiting place of the potential OM. 

She said "why were you in clarksville?"

I said "reasons"

She said "oh"

End of convo.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Sounds like in many ways you didn't treat your wife that well. It's really important that you not take a victim attitude because if you do you'll make the same mistakes next time. 

If you've been doing a 180 the whole marriage it's no wonder she'd detach. It sends the message that she's not that important.

Protect yourself but own what you've messed up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> This is the path I am taking. I owe her nothing until ordered by the court. Im not buying her a new car until she files and then everything becomes documented. Her rental is a 2015 chevy cruse. Safe, reliable, economical. Its not the mercedes she is used to driving but hey, im facing a financial crisis and cant afford those types of luxuries. She has been telling me she is going for full custody of our daughter. Thats the biggest middle finger she can put up. Im not going to run out and buy her a new car because this is war. You dont buy your enemies gifts. This woman has cheated on me, lied to me, continues to hide the truth from me, is destroying our family and trying to take my daughter away from me, and yall want me to buy this B a new car???


If true, yes. But I am not convinced by the facts you gave us. For me you could also be like Don Quichote, fighting imaginary foes. Where is the evidence of her cheating??


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I took DD to dinner last night and my wife went with her sister, mom, and friends to dinner somewhere else. We were on our way home when my wife called asking if i could come pick her up. Her mom had an allergic resction to something and her sister drove her to the hospital. So i went and picked her up, drove her to the hospital so she could see her mom. She was nice and said thank you for picking me up. I said no problem. Dropped her off and came home. She got home about 2 hrs later. Her mom is ok. She seems to be less mean right now to me. Not trying to read too much into it. Its so nice having her cold, raging angry side turned off if only for just a minute.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ok, I can see that you're no longer going to address anything that doesn't suit you. 

Maybe that's part of what got you to this point.

I'll leave you to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing to consider:
> ...


I have been somewhat detatched the whole time. Not emotiinally but in sure she has felt as if i was detatched. Doing my own thing with my friends or choosing hobbies that dont involve my wife instead of trying to find things to do together. That type of thing. Ive been pretty selfish with my life and not gone out of my way to involve my wife in it beyond raising our daughter together. Thats about all we have in common. I do love her deeply but i realize my actions have not reflected that.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Builder,
This is honest. Very helpful that you understand why this is happening. 

So let me summarize:
- You didn't really make much effort to synchronize your life with your wife's (detachment)
- You are very 'decisive' (controlling)

The thing about that second point is that it is easy to end up being decisive about stuff that is primarily about your partner. This is also called being controlling. 

Combining detached and controlling behaviors - marital equivalent of nitro glycerine. 









BuilderMan said:


> I have been somewhat detatched the whole time. Not emotiinally but in sure she has felt as if i was detatched. Doing my own thing with my friends or choosing hobbies that dont involve my wife instead of trying to find things to do together. That type of thing. Ive been pretty selfish with my life and not gone out of my way to involve my wife in it beyond raising our daughter together. Thats about all we have in common. I do love her deeply but i realize my actions have not reflected that.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

So the 180 is about detachment. Since thats been the status quo for my marriage, the 180 list is almost me doing more of the same. But trying to attach right now is clearly not an option either, so how do i play this?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

When i told her i dont want a divorce at all and that i want to rebuild our marriage and raise our daughter together, she said:

You have made that clear. Let me rephrase that, you have made that clear with your words."

Maybe im reading too far into that statement but to me thats an invitation to convince her with my actions. Am i off base with that?


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Maybe just show your wife that you love her. It might be easier than you think, if it comes from the heart.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

give her what she wants (the divorce) and be in a hurry about it being fair, and everything split 50/50 so you can move on to your new life.

it's the only way you'll find out what she really wants. you don't want/need to deal with anything passive aggressive. Just get whatever it is out there.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> I have been somewhat detatched the whole time. Not emotiinally but in sure she has felt as if i was detatched. Doing my own thing with my friends or choosing hobbies that dont involve my wife instead of trying to find things to do together. That type of thing. Ive been pretty selfish with my life and not gone out of my way to involve my wife in it beyond raising our daughter together. Thats about all we have in common. I do love her deeply but i realize my actions have not reflected that.


So it sounds like you spent little to no quality time with your wife. Basically you did not want to spend with her. People do what they want to do. So I can see, on this alone, why she would not want to stay married.

I think that MEM's assessment is right on.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> When i told her i dont want a divorce at all and that i want to rebuild our marriage and raise our daughter together, she said:
> 
> You have made that clear. Let me rephrase that, you have made that clear with your words."
> 
> Maybe im reading too far into that statement but to me thats an invitation to convince her with my actions. Am i off base with that?


Yep, she is saying that your actions do not match your words.

There are two books that I think would help you as they talk about how to rebuild a marriage to be healthy... and to regain the passion.

"Love Busters"
"His Needs, Her Needs"

My suggestion is that you read the books and start doing the work that they lay out. Hopefully you can get your wife to eventually read them too and the two of you can work together to fix your marriage.

But even if you cannot save this marriage, it's information that will help you in you next relationship.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I am familiar with marriage builders and dr harley's work. They suggest "plan A" in my situation where i shower my wife with love, be the best husband i could possibly ever be, keep in mind im likely competing with another man for my own wife, etc.

These actions are almost polar opposite of the 180 list.

But they also INSIST that there is another man in almost every single situation of a "walk away wife". So everything in their plans revolves around snooping/spying/ busting up the affair. There is little they have to offer if you dont get cold hard proof.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> Also, how is she so strong all of a sudden. Somebody who cant decide what to cook for dinner one day and the next she is taking the lead in divorce proceedings, facing the same negative aspects of this as I am, and she doesnt seem to care. Like she is holding her nose and chugging it all down.
> 
> Im serious when I say this. She clearly has not put much thought into what she is trading for her "happiness". There are other ways to skin this cat. She wont consider any of them, which tells me she hasnt considered this much either. Just doing what her friends tell her to do and not even considering the ramifications of her actions.


Because she is DONE. For her, this has been coming for a long time, so it isn't new to her like it is to you. I have been there, I KNOW that DONE feeling. There wasn't a damn thing in the world either of my XH's could have done to keep me there once I hit that point. 

You need to let go.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> I am familiar with marriage builders and dr harley's work. They suggest "plan A" in my situation where i shower my wife with love, be the best husband i could possibly ever be, keep in mind im likely competing with another man for my own wife, etc.
> 
> These actions are almost polar opposite of the 180 list.


Don't do it. You will only make her resent you even more and make her that much more determined to get this over with.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Builder,

Before everything went off the track:
1. What did you typically do for B2 to show her that you loved her? 
2. How often did you do it?
3. And how did she typically react to that?





BuilderMan said:


> I am familiar with marriage builders and dr harley's work. They suggest "plan A" in my situation where i shower my wife with love, be the best husband i could possibly ever be, keep in mind im likely competing with another man for my own wife, etc.
> 
> These actions are almost polar opposite of the 180 list.
> 
> But they also INSIST that there is another man in almost every single situation of a "walk away wife". So everything in their plans revolves around snooping/spying/ busting up the affair. There is little they have to offer if you dont get cold hard proof.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Wife just left to go to the football game. Said she wouldnt be home tonight, might stay with her sister, so she will just text me tonorrow. Could she make it any more clear that she is banging another dude? This hurts SO BAD!!!!!!!!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> I am familiar with marriage builders and dr harley's work. They suggest "plan A" in my situation where i shower my wife with love, be the best husband i could possibly ever be, keep in mind im likely competing with another man for my own wife, etc.


You are a bit confused about MB.

He has a book and web pages dealing with “Surviving an Affair”.

He has another set of books and web pages/info about how to build a marriage so that it is as affair proof as humanly possible. The idea is for the couple to stop love busting and meet the each other’s top emotional needs. It builds a strong marriage. It maintains a high level of passion in the marriage. These are the books that I suggested above because you seem to not know what a good marriage looks like.

Your wife said that your actions are not matching your words. So if you want to get her to give up this divorce thing, you need to know what actions to take. The books will help you.

Now back to the “Surviving an Affair” stuff. It’s not that you shower her with love. It’s that you start acting like a good husband. But it also says to avoid emotional displays like begging, etc. That’s Plan A. Harley says to do Plan A for 2 weeks to 6 months. Though that one guy in his book did it for 2 years. Most people can only do it for a few weeks.

What you did last night is a good Plan A action. You drove her to the hospital to see her mother. It’s something that is important, very important, to her. And you helped her and supported her in it. That’s not “showering her with love”.

Then there is MB Plan B. Plan B. The 180 and Plan B are basically the same thing. The idea is that after Plan A, after you have shown her that you do care and do want to fix things, you go to Plan B (or the 180). This is done when the cheating spouse will not give up the affair. You do Plan-B/180 because it’s too emotionally destructive to Plan A for too long. You would need to start moving on with your life. MB says to do Plan-B/180 until: 1) she has agreed to end any affair that might be going on and has agreed to work on the marriage or; 2) you are no longer in love with your spouse. At that point you are ready to file for divorce.

Plan A and Plan B work whether or not there is a real affair going on. In your case, I think you caught what she was doing before an affair really got going. Sadly that was the time to start Plan A. But you could still do it now… for a short while. MB has a very high success rate… not their forum. I used to post there. It has no oversight by Harley and his people really and it’s gotten to be a religion almost on that forum. Not good. But the material is good. Have you considered making an appointment with Dr. Harley or one of his people. I think that they could help you quite a bit.



BuilderMan said:


> These actions are almost polar opposite of the 180 list.


Plan B… the 180 is the same as MB Plan B



BuilderMan said:


> But they also INSIST that there is another man in almost every single situation of a "walk away wife". So everything in their plans revolves around snooping/spying/ busting up the affair. There is little they have to offer if you dont get cold hard proof.


First off…. almost every single situation of a "walk away wife" means that there are cases where there is no affair is some case.

Plus.. who is ‘they’ that says that? Is it on their forum? Or is it in the MB material. Could you please provide a link to where in the MB material it says that? I know way too many women who qualify as WAWs where there were no affairs going on… myself included.

And again, you did catch her talking to a guy. Not an affair. But clearly her going down the wrong path for an unhappily married woman. Just because you caught a potential problem before it turned into a full blown affair does not mean that MB does not apply.

You get go the MB route of Plan A for about 2-3 weeks and see what happens. If you do, you just might get her to soften on leaving you. It’s only 2-3 weeks out of your life.

Do you know what the standard suggestion is to a potential WAW? A WAW is a woman who has been telling her husband for a long time that there are serious problems. And he’s happy in the marriage so he just blows off her concerns. After all, for him the marriage is happy, all’s good. So he thinks she’s just nagging and complaining once in a while. Nothing serious. He’s ignoring her concerns.

Women are told that before they completely lose all their love for their husband, before they reach the point of no return to destabilize the marriage. Basically it’s to tell their husband that they are divorcing because their concerns are not being addressed, they have been unhappy for a long time. So either the husband wakes up and changes or this goes through to divorce. It’s a risky move but it can work. (By the way, men are told the same thing when their wife has a long history of not paying attention to their concerns.)

You have a choice, there are two ways you can go with this. Entering a war and pushing it to divorce pretty much guarantees that’s where it’s going to end. The other way gives a chance to recover the marriage.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Wife just left to go to the football game. Said she wouldnt be home tonight, might stay with her sister, so she will just text me tonorrow. Could she make it any more clear that she is banging another dude? This hurts SO BAD!!!!!!!!


Do women only go to football games if they are with a guy?

Who is she going to the game with?

Do you have a VAR in her vehicle or a GPS tracker on it?

Could you hire a PI to check this out?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> Don't do it. You will only make her resent you even more and make her that much more determined to get this over with.


I don't think so.

I would have stopped the divorce had my ex shown through actions that he was ready to change and fix things.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Here's what I (another logical and analytical person) would do.

Give her what she wants. Tell her that you love her and support her and so you're going along with what she says she wants, even though you want otherwise. It's basically impossible to have a good marriage when one partner doesn't want to be there, so unless she changes her mind, you have to behave as though you're headed for divorce. Because you are.

From here on, keep emotions out of things, except maybe expressing disappointment and regret now and then so she continues to understand the door is open for reconciliation. Don't be cold to her, but don't be loving either.

She may not have filed for divorce yet, but since her announcement of wanting it, you are now separated. Behaved separated. Ask her now and then when she intends to file, as you are waiting. Don't be snarky about it. Ask her what grounds she proposes to use, since apparently your state needs them.

Put all her stuff in a spare bedroom. She's the one who wants to end things, she's the one who will move out of the house, especially since she can't afford it anyways. Stop sleeping with her. Stop showing her affection. Stop doing her favours. You are acting as supportive as possible of her decision to separate, all the while shaking your head in disappointment that she thinks it is necessary. BUT if she asks for help with things, tell her you're sorry, but she's got to learn to figure those things out for herself now, and the most supportive thing from you is to give her space to do that. It sounds like she's got lots of family and friends who can step in where you used to.

Figure out the finances. Pretend each of you are single now. Stop paying for ANYTHING of hers. This includes the new car AND the rental. Or lease something cheaper/older. I would anticipate that this process will be very lengthy since it sounds like a custody battle will be involved, and a rental car will suck your money away. Don't give her extra money or you'll be helping her build a case for spousal support. Suggest she start apartment hunting or car shopping, just don't finance any of it. Don't pay child support as long as the child is still in your house, just keep paying for all the child's expenses.

Figure out the custody. If you want 50-50, don't budge on it except to accept more. Pretend each of you are single parenting. Research typical child sharing schedules and figure out which you would prefer. Start following it, but with the caveat that you take any extra time she offers you and never offer her extra time. Attend all your child's activities, even if they fall on your wife's time. Be superdad. Document everything you do with/for your child (keep a journal, take lots of photos). You may need it in court later. Let her know what child support you've calculated for 50-50 situation.

Stop fixating on a possible affair. You'll only get yourself worked up into knots. BUT keep your eyes open for evidence, just in case, for court. It's very normal to need closure, to be able to fully understand what just happened, but sometimes, closure is just admitting to yourself that closure doesn't matter. Your wife has made a (rare) decision. Her reasons are mostly irrelevant, since they don't affect the fact that you are headed for divorce at this point.

Focus on yourself. Yes, do the self-improvement parts of the 180. Make yourself a better man. Learn from the mistakes you believe you made in this relationship, so you don't repeat them, either in a new relationship, or if your wife changes her mind. If she asks what you are doing, be honest - you admit your mistakes and want to be a better man, for her or the next woman. Find a support network too, friends and family members who are solely in your corner, not your wife's. Find emotional support from them, since you will not be seeking it from your wife. Yes, this HURTS, like nothing else. Counselling can help. Exercise can help (dopamine). You can even let your wife see you in pain, though you should really be expressing support for her decision through your pain. Just don't expect support from her in return.

Now, maybe reality hits, and the 'fog' (which I don't really believe in) lifts and she comes to her senses when she sees what she'll lose in the way of money and time with her child, and offers to try reconciliation. But unless she comes to realize what she'll lose in YOU, reconciliation won't work. She'll just be enduring the misery she claims she was experiencing all over again as the price for not sharing a child and staying rich. There is not a single thing you can do to help her come to that last, most important, realization.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She is going to the game with her sister and some of her sisters friends (not sure who, didnt ask) but it will be over around 6pm. Sc obviously she has plans after the game if she is not coming home tonight. She mentioned she might stay at her sisters. She is driving to her godparents house to ride to the game with them, and then meet up with her sister and company. I assume she will be riding with her sister after the game since her car will be across town at her godparents house. 

The guy she was talking to lives like 2 miles from her sisters house. Very close proximity. I have a guy that said he will try to do some checking up on her after the game. 

No tracker or VAR. she is onto my games with that stuff. Wouldnt matter in this case since she is riding with other ppl.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> She sent me an unsolicited text just now saying she didnt want to split hairs and she wanted this to be amicable but if i want to be difficult then thats what we can do.
> 
> I replied that i dont want a divorce at all. I want to rebuild our marriage and raise our daughter together.
> 
> ...


Stop saying I don't want a divorce. You keep saying it. Makes you look weak.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

BuilderMan said:


> She is going to the game with her sister and some of her sisters friends (not sure who, didnt ask) but it will be over around 6pm. Sc obviously she has plans after the game if she is not coming home tonight. She mentioned she might stay at her sisters. She is driving to her godparents house to ride to the game with them, and then meet up with her sister and company. I assume she will be riding with her sister after the game since her car will be across town at her godparents house.
> 
> The guy she was talking to lives like 2 miles from her sisters house. Very close proximity. I have a guy that said he will try to do some checking up on her after the game.
> 
> No tracker or VAR. she is onto my games with that stuff. Wouldnt matter in this case since she is riding with other ppl.


So hire a PI.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> I would have stopped the divorce had my ex shown through actions that he was ready to change and fix things.


My ex tried this, and I was thouroughly disgusted by the display. All that time he chose to completely neglect me and NOW that he knows I want out he is all over me?? NO! SORRY! All it did was make me bolt for the door that much faster.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> She is going to the game with her sister and some of her sisters friends (not sure who, didnt ask) but it will be over around 6pm. Sc obviously she has plans after the game if she is not coming home tonight. She mentioned she might stay at her sisters. She is driving to her godparents house to ride to the game with them, and then meet up with her sister and company. I assume she will be riding with her sister after the game since her car will be across town at her godparents house.
> 
> The guy she was talking to lives like 2 miles from her sisters house. Very close proximity. I have a guy that said he will try to do some checking up on her after the game.
> 
> No tracker or VAR. she is onto my games with that stuff. Wouldnt matter in this case since she is riding with other ppl.


Who is watching your daughter during this time?

There is a good chance that she is just hanging out with her sister afterwards. She might just want to get away from the tension being in the same house as you.

What are you doing for yourself today?


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Who is watching your daughter during this time?
> 
> There is a good chance that she is just hanging out with her sister afterwards. She might just want to get away from the tension being in the same house as you.
> 
> What are you doing for yourself today?


:iagree:


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

3Xnocharm said:


> My ex tried this, and I was thouroughly disgusted by the display. All that time he chose to completely neglect me and NOW that he knows I want out he is all over me?? NO! SORRY! All it did was make me bolt for the door that much faster.


Agree with this, it seems like many spouses who are going through these things, don't want to go through a divorce but don't really want to be married, either. They don't want the person, they are just afraid to go through a divorce, and thus start damage control and try to romance the person back. Idk, shouldn't take the threat of divorce to cause someone to treat you well.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > She is going to the game with her sister and some of her sisters friends (not sure who, didnt ask) but it will be over around 6pm. Sc obviously she has plans after the game if she is not coming home tonight. She mentioned she might stay at her sisters. She is driving to her godparents house to ride to the game with them, and then meet up with her sister and company. I assume she will be riding with her sister after the game since her car will be across town at her godparents house.
> ...


Going to the game with a college buddy and his wife. Got invited to tailgate with one of my ex's. May stop by and catch up with her. What is off limits at this point? Its taking everything in me to not go home with somebody tonight just so im not laying in bed later with my mind racing about what my wife is doing. I know thats the immature thing to do but im weak right now and im being told to let my wife go.

Edit: daughter is with wife's mother.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

So, again, where is your child?

Like I said, the more you type the worse you sound. Sounds like your wife is doing the 180 to me. 

Now, you were invited to a tailgate with an............ex.......... Someone you stayed in contact with since you were married. Yes, I know, you'll explain and backtrack, but I do enjoy my posting privileges. 

So, I'm out.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, again, where is your child?
> 
> Like I said, the more you type the worse you sound. Sounds like your wife is doing the 180 to me.
> 
> ...


I havent stayed in contact with her. Thats why i mentiones stopping by their tailgate to catch up. We have lots of mutual friends. I havent talked to her or seen her in 11 years.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Going to the game with a college buddy and his wife. Got invited to tailgate with one of my ex's. May stop by and catch up with her. What is off limits at this point? Its taking everything in me to not go home with somebody tonight just so im not laying in bed later with my mind racing about what my wife is doing. I know thats the immature thing to do but im weak right now and im being told to let my wife go.
> 
> Edit: daughter is with wife's mother.


What's the harm? if you were to hook up with woman now, it's still adultery. Could be used again you in divorce.

I believe that in your state, it's adultery until day that the divorce is final.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
It would appear that you have indeed not been a model H. It would also seem that your wife is quite immature in her handeling of the situation so I have a rather unorthodox proposal for you. Your wife seems fixated on getting this new car and you seem to vacillate between wanting her/the marriage to wanting to be at war with same. So, if you are sincere about wanting the marriage and her I offer this possibility.

Ask your wife if she wants her new car and to have it paid off, free and clear, in three months time. If she responds in the affirmative then propose this to her. Preface this with an explanation of how you realize the cad you have been and that you are now acutely aware of the effects/damage it has done and that you are truly contrite. As such you offer her the opportunity to "test" your resolve.

Explain to her that you will get her the new car immediately AND that you will pay off the entire note IF she will allow you three months to prove your intentions are genuine. For three months you and she must engage as a family. Go to football games together, out to eat together INCLUDING your daughter. Also she must engage in date night with you at least once a week while the daughter is with your in laws. Assure her that there are no strings attached other than she must participate AS A FAMILY. Intimacy is encouraged but not expected unless she is willing/wanting.

The only caveat is that she keep an open mind for the three months and that if another man is discovered the deal is off. Assure her that after this time, if she still finds life with you to be intolerable then you will pay off the car and amicably give her the 50/50 divorce.

Now you must be sure that you are willing and able to be a world class H and father from now on or you will be wasting your time and money. However, if you are determined to save your marriage then you now have three months to prove to her that you were negligent as a H and that you now know the value of your family and you will do whatever is necessary to prove it to her.

You compared putting the money down for her as getting burned in Vegas well now you have a real wager, with high stakes. She has a win win situation in that if you fail she gets a car and divorce and if you succeed she gets a car, a Caring attentive H and her family, intact. Just be sure you are willing to put forth the effort. I wish you luck.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

OMG 

Stop talking and stick to the 180.

She was only testing your resolve with the actions comment.

She doesn't love you any more. Accept it. Her actions show this.

Give her what she wants.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

She text me during the game wanting to know how good our seats are and asking who i was with. I told her who i was with. Told her they were great seats. She sent me a selfie of herself and her best friend. Their seats were WAY better than mine. 50 yard line, 2 rows up from the field, seat backs, etc.

I told her those look like great seats.

Then after the game she text me and asked me if the ppl that i was at the game with were staying at our house tonight. I said i didnt know. (They arent)


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

I proposed something very similar and was shut down on the spot. She wouldnt even consider it.

I offered the divorce she wanted if she would do marriage counseling with me for 3 months. She said no. 

As of today its been 13 days since the day she said shes done. Still no divorce papers. Not sure what to make of that. Just an observation


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

If your conduct towards your wife is consistent with your behavior on this thread, your odds of recon are close to zero.




BuilderMan said:


> She text me during the game wanting to know how good our seats are and asking who i was with. I told her who i was with. Told her they were great seats. She sent me a selfie of herself and her best friend. Their seats were WAY better than mine. 50 yard line, 2 rows up from the field, seat backs, etc.
> 
> I told her those look like great seats.
> 
> Then after the game she text me and asked me if the ppl that i was at the game with were staying at our house tonight. I said i didnt know. (They arent)


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

MEM2020 said:


> If your conduct towards your wife is consistent with your behavior on this thread, your odds of recon are close to zero.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok. Do you care to expand on that?


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

MEM2020 said:


> If your conduct towards your wife is consistent with your behavior on this thread, your odds of recon are close to zero.


And from what I have seen from the OPs wife that is not necessarily a bad thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Sure

In this situation you can categorize all your behavior as focused on three distinct areas:
1. Your own conduct and improvements thereof
2. Your and your wife's behaviors as they relate to the impact on your child
3. Your wife's behavior

The folks who come here mostly focused on self improvement, tend to achieve the best outcome - even if that means an amicable or at least non hostile divorce. 

That self focus is the hardest path, but the best path. 

And so far, I believe you are struggling with that. Understandable but unfortunate. 

If you wish to change that focus, nay if you become determined to change that focus, say so and I will make some suggestions that will give you a sense of where you are on that continuum. 

And for clarity, I am not being critical, merely descriptive. 





BuilderMan said:


> Ok. Do you care to expand on that?


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> Got invited to tailgate with one of my ex's. May stop by and catch up with her. What is off limits at this point? Its taking everything in me to not go home with somebody tonight just so im not laying in bed later with my mind racing about what my wife is doing. I know thats the immature thing to do but im weak right now and im being told to let my wife go


Let stick to the facts:

1) There is a possibility your wife cheats on you by spending the night with OM instead of at her sisters. This is a theoretical possibility at this moment. No further clues than that she is away from home and there has been a contact with possible OM some time ago.

2) Your reaction is not waiting for further investigation, but instead you contemplate a revenge affair?? :surprise:

eeeehhh....maybe the human thing to do is let your wife go?

How can I put you actions in nice words....irrational I think is the good word. The above is not rational. And not careful either. It is your marriage and your child that are at stake!


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Had p.i "attempt" to follow her last night. Lost them going into the game and never got a visual after that. He confirmed that nobody stayed at wifes sisters house as of 5:30am this morning. Nobody at OM's house either. Have no idea where wife stayed last night but it wasnt where she told me she would be.

I made a point to be home at a reasonable time last night. I will make a point to the judge in court that my wife still parties like she is 21 year old paris hilton and lies about where she stays instead of coming home. Meanwhile I was home by 9pm and sober as a judge.

Part of me says she is testing me, trying ti push my jealousy button and get a rise out of me which will validate her wanting a divorce. The other side of me wants to call her on her BS and get the truth, even though id have no way of knowing if her story is true or BS. I cant trust anything she says right now.

Edit: i called her just now to work out logistics of picking up my kid from her moms. Asked if she was okay and asked where she stayed, told her i was a little concerned after i didnt hear from her. She said she stayed at one of her friends house. Lets call her "Liz" for the purpose of discussion.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Had p.i "attempt" to follow her last night. Lost them going into the game and never got a visual after that. He confirmed that nobody stayed at wifes sisters house as of 5:30am this morning. Nobody at OM's house either. Have no idea where wife stayed last night but it wasnt where she told me she would be.
> 
> I made a point to be home at a reasonable time last night. I will make a point to the judge in court that my wife still parties like she is 21 year old paris hilton and lies about where she stays instead of coming home. Meanwhile I was home by 9pm and sober as a judge.
> 
> ...


Let her go. This stuff about who she's with and where she's sleeping is irrelevant except that it gets your emotions riled up. Whether she's doing it on purpose to upset you, or just in her own world and completely ignorant of how upset you are, it doesn't matter. You are separating from her and ultimately divorcing her. Her whereabouts and what she says about them won't affect things, except if you let them upset you and react in anger.

The part in bold is the only relevant bit of your post, though I suppose the rest of it confirms that she's not interested in saving the marriage. So move forward with the separation.

Stop communicating with her about anything that isn't about the separation process or your daughter.

Get a separation agreement made up, and give it to her. Ask for her to sign it, or provide you with a counter-proposal.


----------



## Síocháin (Mar 11, 2016)

How did you get a PI so quickly and on a holiday weekend?


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> BuilderMan said:
> 
> 
> > Had p.i "attempt" to follow her last night. Lost them going into the game and never got a visual after that. He confirmed that nobody stayed at wifes sisters house as of 5:30am this morning. Nobody at OM's house either. Have no idea where wife stayed last night but it wasnt where she told me she would be.
> ...


This goes against my atty's advice, amongst other things. He wants her to initiate this for several reasons.


----------



## BuilderMan (Aug 31, 2016)

Síocháin said:


> How did you get a PI so quickly and on a holiday weekend?


Family friend. Retired. Wanted to help and needed the cash.


----------



## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

BuilderMan said:


> This goes against my atty's advice, amongst other things. He wants her to initiate this for several reasons.


And what is your plan if she does not, and just keeps doing whatever she wants and stringing you along like she is doing now ?

You don't need anymore snooping at this point, you know she's up to no good and doesn't want you anymore, if frankly, she ever really did.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> Had p.i "attempt" to follow her last night. Lost them going into the game and never got a visual after that. He confirmed that nobody stayed at wifes sisters house as of 5:30am this morning. Nobody at OM's house either. Have no idea where wife stayed last night but it wasnt where she told me she would be.


How did the PI confirm that nobody was staying at her sister’s house? Did he peep in the windows or just break into the house to check out each room? I’m serious, how did he know?


BuilderMan said:


> I made a point to be home at a reasonable time last night. I will make a point to the judge in court that my wife still parties like she is 21 year old paris hilton and lies about where she stays instead of coming home. Meanwhile I was home by 9pm and sober as a judge.


Your wife has told you she is getting a divorce. She can claim in court that the two of you were legally separated from the day she told you. She has proof that she told you this too.
Further, your wife going to the football game with her sister and friends is not partying “she is 21 year old paris Hilton”. There is no law requiring your wife to tell you where she is or to come home at some time prescribed by you.


BuilderMan said:


> Part of me says she is testing me, trying ti push my jealousy button and get a rise out of me which will validate her wanting a divorce. The other side of me wants to call her on her BS and get the truth, even though id have no way of knowing if her story is true or BS. I cant trust anything she says right now.


It sounds to me like a woman who is planning to file for divorce and already considers herself separated.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

BuilderMan said:


> This goes against my atty's advice, amongst other things. He wants her to initiate this for several reasons.


I get that you claim that your attorney wants you to wait for her to file. You say that he said it will make you look like the good guy.

But this is confusing because attorneys know that it makes zero difference who files first. IT makes zero different on the outcome of the divorce. A lot of lay people have a mistaken belief that it does, but it does not.

What makes a difference is if during the divorce process you pull a lot of jerk moves that piss off a judge or run up legal fees.

You need to tell your attorney that you cannot emotionally deal with this ambiguous situation so you need to file for divorce NOW.

This is ridiculous. Your wife has told you that she is divorcing you. She can go out with friends and stay with anyone she wants and she does not owe you an explanation. She’s told her more about last night than she needed to. The only thing that impacts on your divorce is whether or not she is cheating. And you have no proof that she is having an affair. No evidence = no affair.

YOu need to file for divorce for your own mental sanity. And you need to stop fretting over where she is. As long as your daughter is taken care of, all it ok. Stop focusing on your wife.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

To be honest

I don't think she wants to divorce.

I think she wants to cake eat and drive around in a Mercedes. 

Builder you have alot to lose remaining married to this child. In a few more years she will be eligible for a hefty alimony payment and whatever else you accumulate. 

Her timid no conflict personality sets her up as a potential cheater already. TAM is riddled with these women.

Do you think she loves you? I bet she loves your money. I bet she wants to work on things after she has her fun and then drops the hammer five years from now.

Let her go. She isn't marriage material. I'm guessing she is really pretty though. They always are. You better get over it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In the future, if you have a desire to use a PI, at least hire one who knows what they are doing. He probably sat at home with his feet up and told you what you already knew - she went to the game.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

And she didn't lie about NOT being at the sister's house. Why don't you believe she was at Liz's house?


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

BuilderMan said:


> Hopeful Cynic said:
> 
> 
> > Get a separation agreement made up, and give it to her. Ask for her to sign it, or provide you with a counter-proposal.
> ...


You can wait for her to initiate the divorce, but you should be able to start protecting yourself with a separation agreement.

I don't know what family law is like where you are, but where I am, you have to try to sort things out yourself via a separation agreement first. If you get a reasonable one, a judge will rubber stamp it and turn it into a divorce. Get your separation agreement, then let your wife be the one to take it to a judge.

If your wife won't negotiate, that's when you know you will need a trial. But you won't know until you try.

Keep in mind that your lawyer sees your money situation and knows that the longer he can make things take, the more he can bill you. So he will advise things that cause disagreement and lengthen the process.

Besides, it sounds like you have done a lot of the decision-making and organizing in your family up until now. Your wife probably hasn't got a clue what to do next and is just waiting for you to run with the divorce ball she's handed you.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Builder

Been a while.

How goes it?


----------



## WhiskeyVictor (Sep 13, 2016)

She probably is cheating. She may not be a lesbian but the accusation is not grounds for divorce. And anyone, man or woman, in your home at 2am when you're not there and your child is is worth questioning. She may just be using this as an excuse to leave and pin it on you so she doesn't feel guilty


----------

