# Do I even have the right to ask for forgiveness?!



## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

Sorry if the story comes out way too long but I need to give the details in order for you guys to understand fully what happened.

First of all my girl and I are not married, but we are, or at least were, very serious about each other.

She and I met about two and a half years after I got divorced. I got married at the age of 25 but had been dating my ex-wife since I was 21. We were married for almost ten years. I am not here saying I was a perfect husband, because I made my mistakes. But cheating was never one of them. I was as devoted as I thought women wanted a man to be. I gave my wife a very confortable lifestyle, honeymoon in Paris and all. I am not bragging, just letting you guys know how far I went trying to make my wife the happiest woman I could. Marriage was a life goal for me, so I wanted it to last for life. But it didn't because after all these years together, my ex fell in love with a man she worked with and decided to leave me for him. She claims there was no cheating and that she wanted to end things with me before anything happend between them. I don't know if I buy that. But the fact alone that my marriage was coming to an end devasted me. 

After the divorce was final I became a totally different man from the honorable guy I used to be. I drank a lot, was extremely depressed and had a rather big string of one-night-stands. I wanted to send a message to women, I guess. That from that moment on, there were nothing more to me other than only sex. I was never going to give my heart to one of them again. 

The fact that I surrounded myself with very toxic women-hating new friends did not help. They got to my head and made me believe being a good person just was not worth it.

When I met my new girlfriend, she complete changed my mind about women. She made me believe again that IT IS worth being a good guy. That there are good women out there, they may be rare, but they do exist. She broke pretty much every single negative female stereotype those toxic friends taught me to believe in. And we were extremely happy together. 

That's when the mess begun. One of the women I had a ONS with after the divorce, was sure she was going to be the one I was going to date seriously. When she found out she wasn't and that I was already dating someone else. She decided I was going to pay for not being with her. What she did was to ask a male friend of her to try and get my gf to cheat on me so I'd dump her. It did not work, because my sweet gf remained faithful to me. 

That's when this woman realised that because my trust in women had been damaged by my ex-wife, my new gf did not have to cheat at all. As long as I believed she had, I was going to give in to the negative thoughts and fears of history repeating itself. The sad part is that it worked. She and this friend of hers make me believe my gf had tried to cheat on me. They came with a scenario where they said she had been alone with this guy, and tried to get him in bed.

They made me believe she was only pretending to be a nice girl, but deep down she was only wearing a mask, like my ex did.
I broke up with her immediately, without even giving the poor girl a chance to defend herself. And I was an a**h*** to her. I insulted her and humiliated her. I told her to get some stuff she had left at my house, but I arranged for her to do so on a day when I filled my house with family and friends to watch her getting kicked out (we did not love together, but spent a long time in each other's places). The worse thign I did was to go on a ONS spree and let her know I was doing it. I wanted to hurt her, and sadly I did. 

Eventually the male friend who had help that crazy lady broke down with guilt after seeing my gf being treated so bad for something she had not done. And he told me the truth.

I have no idea what do to now. I feel like the most worthless and horrible human being of the planet. I feel as if life gave me a chance to start over and sent an amazing person my way, just to show me not all was lost because one marriage did not work. And that there was indeed validity in being a good guy. That just because one woman did not value what I did for her, it did not mean all women were the same. 

My gf was so humble during this whole mess. Not even once did she look at me with anger or hatred for the way I was treating her. She was brave enough to enter my house even though it was full of people to watch her being humiliated. 

I guess she was giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I was only behaving that way because someone lied to me, and that deep down I was as much as a victim was she was.

But I feel like for all the humility and great heart she has shown, a person's heart can only stand enough blows before it breaks completely. I feel that's what I did to her. She had bad heart breaks in the past and now I added to that.

How do I even begin to apologize for what I did? How do I ask for forgiviness after I showed her myself that she would never have mine? 

I know a lot of people would say that those ONSs do not count as cheating since I had broken up with her. But I feel I cheated, because if on one hand I did not have to lie and deceive her to sleep with those girls, I did sleep with them and in doing so I broke her heart pretty bad.

I don't even know if I'm looking for an answer or advice, I just wanted to get this out of my chest. I feel like a mosnter for having done what I did. Do I even have the morals to ask for forgiveness?

Thank you.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Sad story. (sigh) Maybe start by sharing with her what you just wrote.

~sammy


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You can ask all you want. Get therapy and work on yourself before you start dating again


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You say you are a victim, I disagree, but that's more of a technicality. The point is that if you proceed from the point of view of a victim, you will have a much harder time of things, because there's so much you can't control.

That's true, but you can control the most important variable in your life, you. Your behaviour, your outlook, your choices. Obviously you should have thought, investigated the situation, dug for the truth, rather than go off like a grenade. There's a lesson there for you. Probably also a warning. You aren't done working on yourself. You never are I suppose, but you need to get your head on straight before you try to partner up again.

You absolutely must apologize for your behaviour, that's the very least you can do for her. Do not shift the blame, do not minimize, don't make excuses. Do not expect forgiveness, or even a response, just offer an apology that you sincerely mean, and leave it at that.

Stop using other people to try to heal your pain, or fill a void. Only you can do that for yourself. You need to develop your self worth. You need to accept and love yourself before anyone else will have a realistic chance. You'll need to find your value.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Whoa...that's an intense story. Well even if you don't know how to exactly make amends between you two...I think it would be such a huge relief of a burden of this girl...to know that you have come into the truth and that you are deeply sorry for what you had put her through. It is a big shame to feel when someone you loved holds an undeserved judgement against you...so you owe her at least the peace of being free from that condemnation.

That's for starters. Beyond that, the rest is up to her...and you are going to have to be at peace with yourself if she can't bring herself to forgive you. But yeah, I think what you wrote is really well stated...and that really encompasses a lot of what you should be telling her. Also, since she was so publicly shamed in front of friends/family, you should communicate to her that you contacted everyone you know the entire truth and have sought to restore her reputation...so that everyone will know how honorably she acted even under duress.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Self fulfilling prophecy.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

WOW! Your story is identical of mine! Perfectly the same..... only diference (the most important one) is that I married my G.F, and never cheated while we dated, and now we are happy and have 2 wonderful children.
If you really love this woman, and realize what a asxxx you were, then you need to seriusly make-up and try to win her back doing the most wildess things that will convince her that you fuxx-up..... 
What i mean is that you really need to invent something that will even get you humilated doing it!! 
If she is worth it DONT LET HER GO!


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

First, your now-ex-girlfriend deserves a very sincere and heartfelt apology, during which you do not blame-shift and take full responsibility for your deplorable behavior. Help make amends by going to all the family and friends you invited for her public shaming and explaining what an @sshat you were. Do not press her to take you back, or forgive you, or anything else she's not ready to do. You betrayed her trust, humiliated her, and hurt her terribly. You don't get to now decide how, or even if, she responds to your attack.

Then, you need counseling to get your head on straight. Figure out how to stop punishing all women for your ex-wife's poor character. Hope, for her sake alone, that your ex-girlfriend doesn't follow your destructive example and feel the need to punish all men for her ex-boyfriend's (that would be you) poor character.

Oh, and you really, really, _really_ need a better class of friends.


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## sdyjdstyqing (Dec 20, 2013)

First of all my girl and I are not married,


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I think I would start with changing friends and attempting to repair the damage that has been done with GF, also start working on yourself and maybe not be in a relationship for awhile as you need to take care of that emotional and mental baggage caused by exwife. 
Good Luck


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Rowan said:


> First, your now-ex-girlfriend deserves a very sincere and heartfelt apology, during which you do not blame-shift and take full responsibility for your deplorable behavior. Help make amends by going to all the family and friends you invited for her public shaming and explaining what an @sshat you were. Do not press her to take you back, or forgive you, or anything else she's not ready to do. You betrayed her trust, humiliated her, and hurt her terribly. You don't get to now decide how, or even if, she responds to your attack.
> 
> Then, you need counseling to get your head on straight. Figure out how to stop punishing all women for your ex-wife's poor character. Hope, for her sake alone, that your ex-girlfriend doesn't follow your destructive example and feel the need to punish all men for her ex-boyfriend's (that would be you) poor character.
> 
> Oh, and you really, really, _really_ need a better class of friends.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

It really goes to show how damaging infidelity is on the psychic of all involved. 

~sammy


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You should apologize to your ex-gf and leave her alone after that. Let her find someone who has their **** together upstairs. You need to work on yourself and let her find someone who doesn't have so much emotional baggage. You don't sound like you are even ready for a serious or committed relationship at this point in your life. Get some counseling and learn from your mistakes. Good luck.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Octavius, I realize that you were tricked into thinking your gf was cheating on you. That part is truly sad.

However, you humiliated this girl who had done nothing. Do you have a right to ask for forgiveness? Sure. Would I if I were you? Absolutely not. You can apologize if you want, but after that, I'd leave her alone.

I mean, what would you do if a woman publicly humiliated you and had a kicking out party to watch her being expelled from your place?? You think you'd want to be with that woman again? Even if she was tricked by someone else? Admit it, no, you wouldn't. Because you would have seen a side of her that you know could be seen again.

I'd just leave her alone. You were tricked, but you humiliated her.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

I appretiate all the feedback. I know I don't deserve any sympathy from anyone. 

I agree with the fact that I cannot place myself in the position of victim. I believe I was only a victim when my friend and that woman tricked me, but the second I began to act childish and to want revenge I stopped being a victim and became just as bad as the other two. If not worse.

Not that it matters after all that I did to my gf, but so you guys know, I did not cheat on her when we were together. Depiste having been advised to do so by those women-hating friends. 

They tried to convience me that I had spent all those years being faithful to my ex-wife and at the end I didn't get to keep not even her. So this time around I should keep a few girls on the side. Just in case.

I also agree that I have no right what-so-ever to ask for anything other than forgiveness. I know I don't deserve a second chance. I know that I have to obligation to at least offer her whatever I can do in order to help her heal the pain I caused her. I also fear this might damage her perception of men in general, as one of you said here. I truly I can help keep that from happening.

I have already told my family and friends what I now know it's the truth. That she was innocent and did nothing wrong. They are just as shocked as I was. And quite frankly some of them are dissapointed in me. No more than I am however. I don't believe I'll ever be able to express to anyone how much I hate and loath myself. 

I should indeed not have carried the baggage from my marriage to this relationship. I made the same mistake a lot divorced people, specially men, make. To believe that just because someone had hurt me, I had now the right to the same to others. The right to pretty much punish innocent women for something they had not done. 

I feel like I, as other divorced men, gave the best man I could be to my first wife and the worst man I could be to gf as if it was her fault what was done to me.

I surely hope my story is useful at least to warn other people not to do the same I did. I'll make my mission to share my story with other divorced men I meet. Like part of my act of repentance really.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

jack.c said:


> WOW! Your story is identical of mine! Perfectly the same..... only diference (the most important one) is that I married my G.F, and never cheated while we dated, and now we are happy and have 2 wonderful children.
> If you really love this woman, and realize what a asxxx you were, then you need to seriusly make-up and try to win her back doing the most wildess things that will convince her that you fuxx-up.....
> What i mean is that you really need to invent something that will even get you humilated doing it!!
> If she is worth it DONT LET HER GO!


I really hope my story can have the same happy ending yours did. Would you mind sharing what you did to win you girl back? Thanks.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> Sad story. (sigh) Maybe start by sharing with her what you just wrote.
> 
> ~sammy


agree, and if you feel like crying in front of her for what you did, then you cry in front of her, you don't hold anything to her, she was humble and vulnerable to you, now is your turn, If I were you I will even go a post a public a apology in her FB page because at this moment her close friends and family already know what you did and will not want you in her life, so being humble is the best way to show your sincerity


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## loving1 (Aug 5, 2013)

I think you should apologize and then leave her alone and get some therapy. You were very cruel to her, and I don't think that a future relationship with her will work after this. You pretty much salted the earth here, I don't think there's anything left to build a relationship on other than bad feelings.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

loving1 said:


> I think you should apologize and then leave her alone and get some therapy. You were very cruel to her, and I don't think that a future relationship with her will work after this. You pretty much salted the earth here, I don't think there's anything left to build a relationship on other than bad feelings.


disagree, if people can forgive cheaters (and I mean years in the marriage infidelity), alcoholics, drugadicts and then make a sucessful marriage then of course someone can forgive a partner being a jerk under false pretenses, of course this depend in the person who was affected.

that is why he can at least try and see if she found in her heart enough love and desire to forgive him, remember that we don't know how is she feeling right now, maybe she is destroyed and wishing he to come back and open his eyes to see that they can have a wonderfull future together, or maybe she wants nothing to do with him, but he will not be able to know until he do everything possible to win her forgiveness and see if they can still make things work together.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Octavius said:


> I appretiate all the feedback. I know I don't deserve any sympathy from anyone.
> 
> I agree with the fact that I cannot place myself in the position of victim. I believe I was only a victim when my friend and that woman tricked me, but the second I began to act childish and to want revenge I stopped being a victim and became just as bad as the other two. If not worse.
> 
> ...


Keep working on yourself. Choose your friends more carefully in the future. They do say a lot about who you are. We always tell kids that and sometimes adults forget it.

If I were her quite honestly I'd be afraid of what you'd do if she committed some other "offense" and you found me guilty again based on the word of two liars. I just wouldn't invest the time to risk being burned at the stake again. You've kind of shown her who you are now. 

Sadly you are changed because you've been cheated on. You'll always have some issues going forward. Sorry, I wish you the best.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You also need to get rid of those friends. Like yesterday.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

You are a lucky man. Just as sure as i live in the bronx youd have a problem if she was my sister.

Tell her u will get therapy if she is willing to try again. If she says no, get it anyway.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Go to therapy, and when you think you are done, go for more therapy. Is this something anyone would fall for? Not likely IMO.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Jasel said:


> You also need to get rid of those friends. Like yesterday.


Having a group of toxic friends and countless one night stands tends to change your character (more like destroy it) pretty quickly. You become one of them, it's just common sense. Roll around in a dumpster you're going to smell of trash.

I find it odd and telling that the scorned ONS was able to play him so easily, and find a willing male accomplice.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

How does it go? Believe half of what you see and nothing you here. 

She had a right to defend herself and give her side of the story. It's not only fair but the right thing to do even if it was true or not. 

You made a horrible mistake and you owe her an apology and it's up to her if she will forgive you. If she doesn't then chalk it up as a lesson and don't make the same mistake again.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

_Having a group of toxic friends and countless one night stands tends to change your character (more like destroy it) pretty quickly. You become one of them, it's just common sense. Roll around in a dumpster you're going to smell of trash._

Yes, I have to agree. I believe like many people, I was very emotionally fragile after the divorce. So those guys had their work in corrupting me cut out for them. The sad part is that my father warned me to stay away from them because they would fill my head with bad ideas and hatred for women in general. But I let me fragility make me believe only alcohol and too much partying and women would make me feel better. And it obviously only made things worse, as my father predicted.

_I find it odd and telling that the scorned ONS was able to play him so easily, and find a willing male accomplice._

The willing accomplice had the hots for my gf, so he thought if the plan worked and my gf gave into temptation, he could get sex with her out the deal. I guess that was enough for him to agree to help the ons woman.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

but, did she not tell you inmediatly when he went after her?, I understand that they lied about what really happened, but then she screw up when she did not tell you that the guy tried to play her (I mean, she probably thought it will just cause problems but still that is also something that contributed to the whole problem)

did you already contacted her? if not, you are wasting precios time


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Octavius said:


> _Having a group of toxic friends and countless one night stands tends to change your character (more like destroy it) pretty quickly. You become one of them, it's just common sense. Roll around in a dumpster you're going to smell of trash._
> 
> Yes, I have to agree. I believe like many people, I was very emotionally fragile after the divorce. So those guys had their work in corrupting me cut out for them. The sad part is that my father warned me to stay away from them because they would fill my head with bad ideas and hatred for women in general. But I let me fragility make me believe only alchool and too much partying and women make me feel better. And it obviously only made things worse, as my father predicted.
> 
> ...


If my post came off judgemental I apologize that wasn't my intent. 

You learned a tough lesson and are paying the price. Sometimes pointing out what you might know helps to hear from a neutral party.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

manticore said:


> but, did she not tell you inmediatly when he went after her?, I understand that they lied about what really happened, but then she screw up when she did not tell you that the guy tried to play her (I mean, she probably thought it will just cause problems but still that is also something that contributed to the whole problem)
> 
> did you already contacted her? if not, you are wasting precios time


Well I heard it from him first, since we worked together. When she had time to talk to me, my demons and fears of the story repeating itself had already clouded my jugdement. She told me exactly what happened. But I was convienced she was lying to me like my ex-wife did. Looking back, you guys are right, I should have calmed down and analized things rationally rather than emotionally.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> If my post came off judgemental I apologize that wasn't my intent.
> 
> You learned a tough lesson and are paying the price. Sometimes pointing out what you might know helps to hear from a neutral party.


I understand. I need to hear what I need to hear. And mostly what I deserve to hear .


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

Octavius said:


> I really hope my story can have the same happy ending yours did. Would you mind sharing what you did to win you girl back? Thanks.



I dont want to hj your post, so I will just give a summary version:
With my first G.F we where about to get married and buy a house toghether, we wher very deeply in love. Then one day i caught her redhanded with my best friend (really best friend!), long story short i left her and moved out and started to treat all women as [email protected], just like you did! 
Then i needed to vanish! At 29 i left the US to Italy wher my parents live, started e new life. I meet my wife after 1 year and i immediatly new she was the one. She was and is a one girl man, never even kissed before me. She has deep morals and changed me totaly. Peaple tried to put sticks beetween us, but i did'nt allow it...... after 3 years of dating we got married.

What tou fxcked up was the part of letting peaple get in the middle, now you need to win her back, hoping she is willing to forgive you. But i think that if you show true remorse and apoligize, then all you you need is to wait. and hope!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

jack.c said:


> I dont want to hj your post, so I will just give a summary version:
> With my first G.F we where about to get married and buy a house toghether, we wher very deeply in love. Then one day i caught her redhanded with my best friend (really best friend!), long story short i left her and moved out and started to treat all women as [email protected], just like you did!
> Then i needed to vanish! At 29 i left the US to Italy wher my parents live, started e new life. I meet my wife after 1 year and i immediatly new she was the one. She was and is a one girl man, never even kissed before me. She has deep morals and changed me totaly. Peaple tried to put sticks beetween us, but i did'nt allow it...... after 3 years of dating we got married.
> 
> What tou fxcked up was the part of letting peaple get in the middle, now you need to win her back, hoping she is willing to forgive you. But i think that if you show true remorse and apoligize, then all you you need is to wait. and hope!


That's optimistic, because OP not only allowed the sticks between him and the GF, he used the sticks to punish her, and threw in a bunch of his own for good measure!


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

jack.c said:


> I dont want to hj your post, so I will just give a summary version:
> With my first G.F we where about to get married and buy a house toghether, we wher very deeply in love. Then one day i caught her redhanded with my best friend (really best friend!), long story short i left her and moved out and started to treat all women as [email protected], just like you did!
> Then i needed to vanish! At 29 i left the US to Italy wher my parents live, started e new life. I meet my wife after 1 year and i immediatly new she was the one. She was and is a one girl man, never even kissed before me. She has deep morals and changed me totaly. Peaple tried to put sticks beetween us, but i did'nt allow it...... after 3 years of dating we got married.
> 
> What tou fxcked up was the part of letting peaple get in the middle, now you need to win her back, hoping she is willing to forgive you. But i think that if you show true remorse and apoligize, then all you you need is to wait. and hope!


I appretiate you sharing you story. Don't mind any hj at all. The more inputs the better. I'm happy for you, that things worked out in you life.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

For the person that asked: No I have not contacted her yet because first, I believe I'm the last person she wants to see right now and I can only guess her family does not want me around me either. So I want to let things calm down a bit. And second, we're both away from each because of the holidays. I hate the idea that I most likely ruined this time of the year for both of us, specially her.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

manticore said:


> but, did she not tell you inmediatly when he went after her?, I understand that they lied about what really happened, but then she screw up when she did not tell you that the guy tried to play her (I mean, she probably thought it will just cause problems but still that is also something that contributed to the whole problem)
> 
> did you already contacted her? if not, you are wasting precios time


No the girlfriend did nothing wrong. His ONS and a guy friend just made a story up, and he bought it readily and set up a Puritan shaming for her.

At least that was my take. I've kicked coffee so I'm very slow.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> No the girlfriend did nothing wrong. His ONS and a guy friend just made a story up, and he bought it readily and set up a Puritan shaming for her.
> 
> At least that was my take. I've kicked coffee so I'm very slow.


No, you're right. That's exaclty what happened. They set us up, I fell like a stupid duck, fearing that if I trusted history would repeat itself (demons from my first marriage). She did tell me her side of the story as soon as she could. But by then the guy had gotten to me first.


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## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

There's a difference between asking for forgiveness and apologizing. To ask for forgiveness suggests you want to be at peace with someone, and perhaps possibly even resume a relationship similar to what had gone on before. 

Infidelity experts suggest the wayward spouse spend several months apologizing before getting to the point of even mentioning asking for forgiveness - it takes a LONG TIME for the betrayed spouse to heal enough to start thinking about the forgiving part. Betrayed spouses are traumatized and they usually have a LOT of healing to do before their hearts get to a place of forgiveness - what you did was not infidelity, but I bet your gf was traumatized by what YOU did to HER.

In my opinion, you have an obligation to apologize, but no, I don't think you have the right to ask for forgiveness. If I were you, I wouldn't even try to apologize by phone or in person - I would do it in a card that you mail to her. After the way you publicly humiliated her, you don't deserve to have her even take a call from you. I don't think you should try to call her - she might consider it harassment. I think you should leave her alone, after the way you treated her. 

Most people who post on this website who deal with infidelity are married, and even THEY don't call people over to their homes to have an audience present for a public shaming of their spouses. They may "out" them verbally, and post their names on cheater websites, but putting them through a shaming show like that is pretty rare. That was a special kind of cruelty. 

Because of this, and the ensuing ONS streak, and the company you keep, you are in need of some serious introspection and character repair, NOT a girlfriend. I suggest you consider individual therapy, and if you have a religious affiliation, regular meetings with a clergy person. You need to focus on YOU now, not reconnecting with her or with any woman now. Please stay away from women until you make yourself safe for them to be with. You aren't a good bet right now. Should she take a chance on you again? NO. Not the person you are now. Think of her best interests - you are not anywhere in there. 

Self improvement is hard work. Posting here was a form of asking for help, which is a good sign - you realize you need help. Please seek professional help as you try to become your best self.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

As a mother of sons that has been treated badly by men in the past, I know and knew that I can't carry that kind of hate in my heart and show unconditional love to my boys.

You need to let the pain from what your wife did to you go. It is toxic. It is poisonous. You may one day have daughters, as I have had sons and no matter how much you will love them, you cannot bring them up with self-esteem as women, while treating them and their mother like the "exceptions" or "credits to their gender" and bashing the rest.

Letting go of the toxic friends is important. As is counseling, I believe because what you did to your girlfriend was very messed up and emotionally traumatizing for her. The public humiliation is a form of abuse by proxy where you form a gang of people to back you up and left your girlfriend there alone and defenseless. Without the cheating, that is a betrayal in itself. 

Although you had dumped her, the string of ONS you had afterwards was another betrayal and if I was your girlfriend, I would consider it cheating. You have every right to apologize but expecting forgiveness is another story. Expecting forgiveness without concrete, measurable changes and demonstrations of your remorse:

1. Apologizing to your girlfriend
2. Getting counseling for your misogyny issues, trust issues, the baggage left over from ex-wife's betrayal
3. Losing the women-hating friends
4. Apologizing and setting the record straight to family and friends that you dragged into the humiliation of your girlfriend
5. Apologizing to girlfriend's parents for how you treated her (she no doubt has told them and if that was my daughter, I wouldn't want you near her after that).

is unfathomable to me.

Even if you did reconcile with girlfriend, I would guess that your trust issues towards her would even be heightened because once you betray someone, you often start thinking that they will betray you as well. You need to think about what you can do to prevent this in the event she does take you back because your jealousy and trust issues towards her probably won't be tolerated anymore if she has any sense.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

Miss Taken said:


> As a mother of sons that has been treated badly by men in the past, I know and knew that I can't carry that kind of hate in my heart and show unconditional love to my boys.
> 
> You need to let the pain from what your wife did to you go. It is toxic. It is poisonous. You may one day have daughters, as I have had sons and no matter how much you will love them, you cannot bring them up with self-esteem as women, while treating them and their mother like the "exceptions" or "credits to their gender" and bashing the rest.
> 
> ...


Thanks you for input, you're absolutely right about every word you said. As I said before my father warned me about becoming friends with those guys and that if I behaved they way they advised me to, I would lose all those years I spent being a good man and that I would lose that man forever. That's exactly how I feel, as if I lost the man I used to be. I threw him out the window and became the kind of man I hated.

I'll do everything you said, specially getting counseling to work my issues out and learn to let go of the baggage from my marriage. I have already cut ties with those toxic friends. And have also let my family and friends know the entire truth of what happened. 

Like I said, forgiveness might be too much to ask, but at least I want to let her know how much I regret every word I said to her and everything I did. I want to her to at least know that much. But other than that, I am willing to accept whatever punishiment she throws at me.

I also agree with humiliating her part. I should never have done what those guys advised me to do. And the sad thing is that this is rather normal isn't it? All over the internet and in real life, men are always advising each other on what to do punish their cheating gfs and wives. Like I said on another post, let my story be a lesson to everyone who ever finds themselves in my position. Even if you have been cheated on, just walk away, and don't seek revenge. You just become something you will not like.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think you the other guy (the set up guy) and your ex girl friend sit down and hash it all out.

Then all three of you need infrom who ever you can that the b1tch that was behind the set up be blacklisted and shunned.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

If some has already said this I am sorry for repeating it. If not then please do this now.

You need to get up and go tell this woman now that you are sorry. You need to go be a man and own this mistake. What you did was horrible and honestly you don't deserve to have her in your life but sitting here and talking about it while she is suffering is bs. 

Get up go buy her flowers and get on the ground before her and apologize for your behavior. You may never get her forgiveness but at least she will have closure and she deserves that. 

Clay


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

dude public apology in her FB page now, and even self loathing in there, with phrases like "I let my demons come between us", let she and her family know you regret it and are apologetic, and then after that you can contact her directly, she is going to be reunited with family in this holydays and all of them are going to bash you and make harder for her to forgive you, public apology now so family can build a Little amphaty for you


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

the guy said:


> I think you the other guy (the set up guy) and your ex girl friend sit down and hash it all out.
> 
> Then all three of you need infrom who ever you can that the b1tch that was behind the set up be blacklisted and shunned.



With all due respect that is just deflecting responsibility. She doesn't need to deal with these lowlife people that she was harmed by. What would a face to face with that dirtbag do to help her.

The OP chose to believe them and not her. He needs to apologize sincerely with ZERO excuses except he was an idiot. And tell her if he could do it over again it wouldn't happen because she did nothing to deserve that kind of treatment except start to restore his faith in women. 

Unfortunately she may be a bit jaded towards men at this point.

He needs to own it all by himself.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

I have talked to her brother and explained to him what happened. He has told her, but she says at the moment she wants some space and time. 

Believe all I want to do right now is indeed to get on knees and humiliate myself in front of her and whomever else I need to, and apologize and tell her I'm willing to accept any punishment she decides to throw at me. Even if she does not take me back, if only to give her closure and myself to feel at least a little bit of a human being again.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Octavius said:


> Thanks you for input, you're absolutely right about every word you said. As I said before my father warned me about becoming friends with those guys and that if I behaved they way they advised me to, I would lose all those years I spent being a good man and that I would lose that man forever. That's exactly how I feel, as if I lost the man I used to be. I threw him out the window and became the kind of man I hated.
> 
> I'll do everything you said, specially getting counseling to work my issues out and learn to let go of the baggage from my marriage. I have already cut ties with those toxic friends. And have also let my family and friends know the entire truth of what happened.
> 
> ...



She's not going to throw punishment at you. You are living with her punishment. Perhaps she will show you some mercy, and give you a second chance. If she does she is a saint.

For now respect her wishes and honor her space request. Your need to feel better shouldn't make you ignore that.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Octavius said:


> I have talked to her brother and explained to him what happened. He has told her, but she says at the moment she wants some space and time.
> 
> Believe all I want to do right now is indeed to get on knees and humiliate myself in front of her and whomever else I need to, and apologize and tell her I'm willing to accept any punishment she decides to throw at me. Even if she does not take me back, if only to give her closure and myself to feel at least a little bit of a human being again.


I am still with the FB apology idea, you have nothing to lose and people who is against you is still going to be against you with apology or not, but in the other hand you can win people in your side, (and women love whem men show how important they are in front o verybody).

but in the end is your decsision, you know her better than anyone here.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

manticore said:


> I am still with the FB apology idea, you have nothing to lose and people who is against you is still going to be against you with apology or not, but in the other hand you can win people in your side, (and women love whem men show how important they are in front o verybody).
> 
> but in the end is your decsision, you know her better than anyone here.


Oh I'm definetely considering doing what you advised me. I just need to get my thoughts together properly and put them into words that make it clear that my intention is to apologize and at least try to undo the damage I did. I don't want her to think all I want is to get off the hook and that's it. 

Thanks for the idea.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

She may not want a public apology if she asked for space. Your apology will be more sincere if you are in therapy. She will know its not just guilt and false promises. Plus when you figure out exactly why you did this, (and stop blaming your friends like a coward) your words will have depth.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Doesn't a FB apology just traumatize her all over then finish with an apology? It just spreads this teenage BS even further, leaves a permanent pretty public cyber record and then leaves it out there for others to put a spin on. Not everyone reads the whole thing or walks away with the same version of the story. Even if they do it's just a trashy situation.

She may very well be even more mortified on a larger scale. At this point SHE should have control over if and how she revisits this personal attack. If I were her I'd be pissed he needed to drag me through the mud yet again to make himself feel better, under the guise of an apology. Because my friends made me do it isn't flying.

And yeah, until he stops blaming his woman hating friends he's not in a place to try to get her back. He said he's not one of them anymore...he blames one woman for "making" him one. That is just a bit of a cop out. Work that out first and stop trying to make yourself feel better at her expense.

Thank God he didn't post her on Cheaterville.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

That says it all.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

well I am was suggesting a public apology because for what I got in his story his acts of disdain were very public, I accept that in the other hand if there are just few people involved (but from what I got from his story this was not the case becuase he even make her go to retrive her things in front of family and friends) it will do more harm that good.

if not then a public apology is a good option, we have many BS whose WW have made public apologies in similar ways and I have never hear a complaint from them, they in the other hand say how ther WW are taking resposability for their harmful actions (I know is not the same but still she was affected her in a terrible way by his actions)


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> Doesn't a FB apology just traumatize her all over then finish with an apology? It just spreads this teenage BS even further, leaves a permanent pretty public cyber record and then leaves it out there for others to put a spin on. Not everyone reads the whole thing or walks away with the same version of the story. Even if they do it's just a trashy situation.
> 
> She may very well be even more mortified on a larger scale. At this point SHE should have control over if and how she revisits this personal attack. If I were her I'd be pissed he needed to drag me through the mud yet again to make himself feel better, under the guise of an apology. Because my friends made me do it isn't flying.
> 
> ...


I understand what you saying. Perhaps the FB idea isn't that great. However I did mention that the very reason I'm not contacting her right this second, besides respecting her need for time and space, is precisely because when I do talk to her I want to be able to make it clear this for her, not for me. For her to get the apology she deserves and not leave the smallest shadow of doubt that this isn't about me feeling better and getting off the hook.

Second, I understand that I am an adult and I cannot place the consequences of my action entirely one someone's else shoulders. However I needed to mention that those toxic friends and my ex because they DID play a part in changing me. 

I'm sorry I don't want to sound harsh, but other people's actions and influences DO affect us enough to play a part of how we see the world and how we behave. Otherwise nobody would be telling me, as well as others, to lose the toxic friends. They just say "keep toxic people around you, because there's no harm in that". How many people here who have been betrayed by their SOs have now trusting issues? Is it only their fault that they are now unable to trust others as they used to? 

Does that mean only my ex and toxic friends are guilty? Absolutely not. However what happened in the past and in my moment of emotional weakness (after the divorce) are worth mentioning because they were two very powerful componets of what let me to behave the way I did.

Again, sorry if I sound harsh, but if only the individual in question should be blamed for what he/she does despite them saying that people around them kind of drove them to do certain things, does that mean teenagers who kill themselves over bullying are the ONLY ones to be held responsible for what they did? The bullies should not even be mentioned because it's not like it's, at least partially, their fault right?!

Like I said, I want to do this for her. If I feel better at the end, then it's only a bonus. My goal is to apologize and help with whatever I can to undo the pain I caused. This is not about me getting off the hook and that's it.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

manticore said:


> well I am was suggesting a public apology because for what I got in his story his acts of disdain were very public, I accept that in the other hand if there are just few people involved (but from what I got from his story this was not the case becuase she even make her go to retrive her things in front of family and friends) it will do more harm that good.
> 
> if not then a public apology is a good option, we have many BS whose WW have made public apologies in similar ways and I have never hear a complaint from them, they in the other hand say how ther WW are taking resposability for their harmful actions (I know is not the same but still she was affected her in a terrible way by his actions)


Perhaps, when the time is right, my "public" apology should in the presence of the very family members and friends who were at my house that day and no one else. 

I believe you're idea of me apologizing in front of others is good because it shows that I'm willing to be humble enough to put head on the chopping block, even if she does not choose to "cut it". 

It shows that I'm willing to "go as big" on apologizing to her as I was in punishing her. Kind of that saying " love covers all sins" (I'm not sure if that's how it goes, but you get the idea right?)


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Just write her a letter, ask her brother to deliver it, and leave it at that for the time being. Worry about the work you need to do on yourself, not about fixing things with her. Write the letter, take a day or 2 to get your thoughts down, and pull the trigger. Don't agonize for weeks on making it perfect. Actually don't worry about if it's perfect or not. Just write what you feel, and follow the guidelines you've been given here.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Just write her a letter, ask her brother to deliver it, and leave it at that for the time being. Worry about the work you need to do on yourself, not about fixing things with her. Write the letter, take a day or 2 to get your thoughts down, and pull the trigger. Don't agonize for weeks on making it perfect. Actually don't worry about if it's perfect or not. Just write what you feel, and follow the guidelines you've been given here.


That's what I have been thinking about too, writing a letter. That way she will know I do care about how I made her feel and that I do regret all of it, yet I'll be respecting her need for time and space. Thanks.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Octavius said:


> I understand what you saying. Perhaps the FB idea isn't that great. However I did mention that the very reason I'm not contacting her right this second, besides respecting her need for time and space, is precisely because when I do talk to her I want to be able to make it clear this for her, not for me. For her to get the apology she deserves and not leave the smallest shadow of doubt that this isn't about me feeling better and getting off the hook.
> 
> Second, I understand that I am an adult and I cannot place the consequences of my action entirely one someone's else shoulders. However I needed to mention that those toxic friends and my ex because they DID play a part in changing me.
> 
> ...



I get it and trust me I can take harsh. I was merely giving my view on the Facebook thing. I was one if the people who posted lose the friends.

In the end you are an adult and you can't compare the voluntary company of "toxic" friends to a teenager being bullied. They don't choose to be bullied, you chose your friends and your actions (yes I believe toxic friends exist and also believe their influence on us is up to us). Do you see that difference? If you robbed a bank because your toxic friends all did you'd still face the consequences on your own as an adult.

If you are "bullied" into socializing with people of questionable character. And acted on their advice you still behaved like a bully. 

Just my opinion. I don't mean to sound harsh but the truth of this situation isn't pretty.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> I get it and trust me I can take harsh. I was merely giving my view on the Facebook thing. I was one if the people who posted lose the friends.
> 
> In the end you are an adult and you can't compare the voluntary company of "toxic" friends to a teenager being bullied. They don't choose to be bullied, you chose your friends and your actions (yes I believe toxic friends exist and also believe their influence on us is up to us). Do you see that difference? If you robbed a bank because your toxic friends all did you'd still face the consequences on your own as an adult.
> 
> ...


Perhaps my bully analogy wasn't good. However you seem to be dismissing one very important point of my story. I was emotionally fragile and damaged when I met those guys. If I had met them before and chose to behave like them because I thought it was cool then it'd a different story. 

Look around right here and see how much emotional damage infidelity and divorce has been done to most of TAM members. I know that it cannot be used as an excuse for how we behave afterwards, but we cannot discount it either. 

How many here can throw their rocks for never having behaved out of character due to the emotional damage and extreme psychological distress their spouses' cheating and divorce have caused them? 

Like I said, if I had started a friendship with those guys at a "normal" moment of my life and willingly chose to act like them for fun sake, I would totally agree with you. 

But as I mentioned before, I had just gotten of out a long marriage in which I did all the things I believed women wanted from a husband and went out of my way to make her happy the way I thought she deserved, and then one day she decides she met her soulmate and says it's all over. Just like that. All those years, all that dedication, all that work on me as person to be a good husband was thrown in trash can. I was left feeling it was all for nothing.

Ask others here what that has done to them and you will see that althought I'm responsible for what I did, when I met those toxic guys I was extremely fragile both emotional and psychologically speaking. So their influence and was a bit stronger than my ability to dismiss it. I was being very self destructive back then. 

In a way I was under a similar type of emotional and psychological distress and pain as a bullied person. Not completely able to think cleary and make better choices.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I fully understand that. I've been pretty fair to you in all my posts.

I am a "betrayed spouse". I get how crazy it can make you feel. In the end "rising above" and taking the high road was harder but I can still look at myself in the mirror. I've given 20+ years to my husband and am working on reconciliation. 

If you were to ask me to bottom line it: I get you want to feel better and fast. Ideally you want a happy ending. I'm saying not so fast. You hit her with a Mack truck let her heal and take some time to work on yourself. Your actions show you are still damaged from what your wife did to you. Don't smother her. Apologize, see where it goes. 

Sometimes you can't sugar coat it. In the end you alone are responsible for how you choose to behave going forward.

Just take some time. I'm sure I sound like a huge b!tch, some days I am. I'll own it. You can take the advice that's useful or leave it...no charge either way.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

If you have this tone when you do see her, you will be done with her. You take on all the blame. Why?
Because you are an adult. Bringing up your friends and trying to justify anything at all will get you no where.

She does not want excuses. And shes not your wife, so why should she tolerate any of this?

And by the way you should have waited or gotten therapy before you started dating again. I did. And i know many who did. Thats also on you. Based on your last few posts you are not worthy of a audience.

And by the way, your dad warned you about these toxic friends. So, you really do need to stop with these excuses. You chose to ignore him. You chose. I also dont buy you were some great guy before. Or theres no way you could have ever done this.

Not trying to be harsh, but you still dont seem to get.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

You've said several times you were emotionally damaged and fragile. OK, understood sometimes the damage inflicted by others leaves an ugly scar. Consider that by entering into a relationship while you were still damaged and fragile you injured another party. You can blame your toxic friends your ex, their parents and the postman. 

Listen to illwill and do some work in therapy and sort yourself out.


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## Octavius (Dec 20, 2013)

I do get it. I acted like an a**h*** and pretty much punished her for way more than only what I thought she had done. I admit that, more than likely, when I did what I did, I was unleashing all of the pain and anger and frustration of my previous relationship too, as if it was her fault. I was probably seeing both her and my ex as if the were one and the same.

I was carrying the bomb inside me. My toxic friends may have been the ones who offered me the matches but they did not force me light it.

I, now, get it that I should have looked for professional help in order to deal with the damage my failed marriage did to me. And yes I should have listened to my father. Believe me if I could go back in time and do it all differently I would in a heart beat.

Trust me, I am taking ownership for what I have done, both in front of my family and true friends as well as hers. I believe this might be the only reason her brother still speaks to me in the first place and is willing to help if he can. 

And you are right I was never a great man. But I thought I was doing all the things possible to be a good man, specially to my ex wife. I wasn't perfect or a prince charming, but I was one of those guys who wanted to at least be a good man. The one who is faithful, and dedicated etc...

Like I said I am willing to do whatever it takes to fix the situation, however small that fixing may be.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Take whatever she is able to give. Even if its just friendship.

Good luck.


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