# My wife discovered that I cheated



## dest (Oct 26, 2017)

What do I do to salvage my marriage?


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## dest (Oct 26, 2017)

I don't want to lose her or our kids.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Was it an affair or a ons?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Please tell us @dest, in your very own words exactly what happened!*


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## dest (Oct 26, 2017)

My wife found text messages and photos of correspondence I have had with another woman on and off. She isn't speaking to me, won't answer calls and I don't know where she, or our kids, are. I don't want to lose our family. I need to salvage this. I love her.


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## Ghost Rider (Mar 6, 2017)

Why'd you do it?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

dest said:


> My wife found text messages and photos of correspondence I have had with another woman on and off. She isn't speaking to me, won't answer calls and I don't know where she, or our kids, are. I don't want to lose our family. I need to salvage this. I love her.


You sure about that? Why would you treat someone you love like that?

OK hold on because I am not going to be real nice here, but you don't need nice you need cold hard reality. 

The truth is there may be no chance to salvage it, it's going to really be up to her. Besides that you need to figure out what it is in you that would allow you to do this to someone you say you love. The mother of your children. No matter what you are going to have to fix that or the rest of your life will be hard. As it is your life is going to be harder as you have now severely damaged your marriage if not destroyed it. You also severally hurt you kids mother and their family. Right now she is probably in the worst pain of her entire life. People compare it to emotional rape, and the loss of a child. YES it's that painful, and YES you did that. 

Are you still in contact with your AP (affair partner)? If so that needs to end right now, you must never talk to her again unless it's tell her not to contact you, but that should be done in front of your wife if she wants it. You are no where near that yet. What is the full story of your affair, how long has it been going on? Who is she and where do you know her from? How long have you been married, what are your ages? How old are your kids? Does your wife work?

Don't delete anything on your phone, and don't hide anything else from your wife. Lying and minimizing are just going to make it worse. You need to humble yourself and take your medicine. Being completely honest will show her you mean what you say at least about trying to fix this. When you lie you are showing your wife that you are picking your AP over her and your family. The days of being selfish need to end today. Even if it hurts her to tell the truth, not knowing the truth leaves the BS (betrayed spouse) feeling like they don't know reality. It is terribly disconcerting. 

Start with this book.

Give you wife all access to your electronic devices, password, etc. If you work with your affair partner you are going to have to start to look for another job. Write a timeline with the full details of you affair. Answer any questions she has honestly. Get IC (individual counseling) to figure out why you were able to do what you did and how to be a better person. 

Fact is it's going to take a monumental effort and you still may not get your wife back. Your marriage and life are forever changed. For her this is like going through a car wreck and losing your leg. Or in your case drinking and driving and killing someone. This is one of these thing that you don't get over you just learn to live with. 

If your wife was on here I would be telling her to start over with someone new because frankly I don't believe most people have it in them to do all the work that is required to change their nature. And since you cheated, cheating is in your nature, it's not in everyone's, and the ones who it's not in make better spouses. Besides all that, to me the payoff is just not worth the effort. The marriage she once had with you is dead, now she has to create a new one, and if you are going to do that why not do that with someone who at least has the potential to not cheat on you. In your case you already did. So even if you fix it what do you get? You are still stuck with someone who cheated on you. Just telling you what you are up against, you have left her with a very hard choice and frankly severely lessened your worth to her. You will be competing with men who have not cheated on her, so you better work harder on this then anything you ever have. 

However some have proven me wrong at least they say they have. They say their marriage is healed and they are better. I personally don't believe most of them, but then again doesn't matter if I do or not, all that matters is that you and your wife do. 

Besides all this even if your wife doesn't take you back, your cheating nature is going to destroy your life. You need to learn to honor your commitments, and deal with your issues in a healthy way. That is just as important for you going forward then if you marriage stays together or not. Use this to change yourself for the better. 

Finally don't expect a quick fix, you wife will always have pain from this and is forever changed. It take a good 2-5 years to recover if she stays, a lot less if she moves on. If she stays will you stay through 5 years of her in pain, suffering, and anger sadness, mistrust of you? Make up your mind now and don't waste her and your kids time. 

Finally if she doesn't take you back, be kind to her, you have already humiliated her. Honor what is left of your commitment by being kind and being good from now on to your kid's wife. The best way to do that is to be the best Father you can be to your kids. 

I'm sorry but there is not easy answers to this. Adultery is probably one of the worst things you can do to a person. It's really a lot like rape. It forever changes both of you. It's up to you now to do the best you can to fix what you can.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

dest said:


> My wife found text messages and photos of correspondence I have had with another woman on and off. She isn't speaking to me, won't answer calls and I don't know where she, or our kids, are. I don't want to lose our family. I need to salvage this. I love her.


Ah yes, you love her eh? What kind of love were you hoping to achieve and show your wife in "corresponding" with this other woman? Love your wife you say? What type of photos did you send with the unfathomable love you have for your wife in mind? 

What I'm getting at is are you more sorry for your actions, or more sorry you got caught? Based on the "on and off again" comment, I suspect it is the latter. If she is a strong woman, you won't hear from her next but you will likely hear from her lawyer. 

"The choices we make dictate the life we lead" welcome to the consequences of your poor choices. Reality is if she wants nothing to do with you, there is really nothing you can do at this point other than to reflect on your horrible decisions in life. 

Based on the fact this was an "on and off" relationship with your mistress, it shows that you didn't make a one time mistake. These were calculated actions taken by you to have some strange on the side. As such, I feel no empathy for you or the situation your poor life choices have landed you in. 

My empathy is for your wayward wife and your poor kids. For their sake, I would advise you to go along with whatever she says in an act of true remorse during your impending divorce. Stop focusing on yourself long enough to understand your kids are going to suffer the consequences of your actions just as much if not more than you. Be a man for a change, and work hard to make sure you can be the father they deserve to have when its all said and done. 

You have already screwed up being a good husband, and severely hindered your ability to be a good father. But all is not lost on your kids. No more contact with the floozy on the side. 100% of your energy should be focused on being a good father to your kids. You have already pissed away the good husband roll. Focus on your kids, drop the skank side chick. Become a man and stop acting like a child.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You cheated on het and on your children.

Why?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

dest said:


> My wife found text messages and photos of correspondence I have had with another woman on and off. She isn't speaking to me, won't answer calls and I don't know where she, or our kids, are. I don't want to lose our family. I need to salvage this. I love her.


You might be out of luck.

Start by going to a councler by yourself. And if or when she contacts you apoligise and be honest and open total transparecy! 

But most believe once a cheater


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> most believe once a cheater


Yep. Most of us do. Because, it is rare to find an individual who will accept the COMPLETE blame for his/her own adultery, who will drill down in to his/her own psyche and uproot the sins which prompted the adultery. Most of them continue to blame their spouse, their parents, their circle of influence when they were young, all of the things they cannot change. But, the one thing which needs to change, themselves, is not at fault.

This is exactly the path my WW chose when she cheated.... it was everybody else's fault, especially mine.... I completely "got it", that she would not change. 



sokillme said:


> the payoff is just not worth the effort.


Exactly. Exactly how I felt. I remained living in the home because my lawyer told me that she would get custody of our sons, and if I left, she would have subjected them to a parade of selfish men who she recorded with notches in her vagina handle. But, as to the marriage? I checked out.

You've received good advice from the other posters. No guarantee that it will work, but this advice will give you the best shot.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Adultery can completely destroy a marriage and many cheated on spouses just cant trust again and to them the marriage is over. This is a consequence of cheating. The other problem is that you didn't even come clean and confess, she had to find out so you are only sorry because you got caught. You are only sorry because now you may lose your family, but what did you expect? Thats the risk you take when you betray you wife and children in such a terrible way. You put your own selfish desires before them. You risked it and lost. 

Leave her alone and give her time. She will feel devastated, deeply hurt and betrayed, she needs time to make decisions about her future. You may get the divorce papers in the post, then you will have your answer. If not you will just have to wait till she contacts you. That may be weeks or months.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Is it just "correspondence" or did you do more ?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OK, @dest, get a lie detector done to show exactly what you did.

And get STD tests done to prove to your wife you are clear of that and did not risk her health.

You have already lost your wife and children. However, can you get them back?

That's not something we can answer, at least not at this stage.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dest said:


> My wife found text messages and photos of correspondence I have had with another woman on and off. She isn't speaking to me, won't answer calls and I don't know where she, or our kids, are. I don't want to lose our family. I need to salvage this. I love her.


Sorry Dest but .....expect to receive lots of 2x4 on this thread.

You have to stop lying to yourself

1. you do not love your wife as much as you say, otherwise you would not be texting another woman
2. you are only regretful because you got caught but would not have stopped otherwise
3. this was not a mistake, it was totally premeditated and ongoing over a period of time
4. you have put a nuclear bomb in the middle of your marriage and family and did so knowingly
5. you want her back but what are you prepared to do to see things from her perspective. Imagine if you found similar texts on her phone to another man? 
6. You cannot begin to understand what you are putting her through. There is absolutely not a glimmer of hope without remorse, how remorseful are you willing to be, regret at being caught is not remorse
7. The pain she feels you have to feel
8. why do you want her wife back, you do not love her otherwise you would not have cheated. Incidentally all cheaters want to cake eat, i.e. have their spouses and families and have the other person too, you are a cake eater. 

9. If your wife has any sense she will ensure there is remorse, complete exposure, complete transparency, etc
10. If you are still in contact with this woman (are you? are you crying on her shoulder?) then you might as well file for divorce and move on, learn from your bad behaviour
11. Reconciliation is much more difficult than divorce


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

That's called an "oh ****!" moment!!

It the guilt that one cheats... or that one gets caught?


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## dest (Oct 26, 2017)

We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore. 

I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family. 

She is someone from my past. It's not like I went and found a 20 year old to make my play toy. I didn't go and live a separate life with another hidden family. I am friends with a woman I have known a good portion of my life and on occasion things progressed. I do love her. And I love my wife. You can love more than one person, people do it everyday with their families and children. 

I didn't plan on letting this info come out to my wife. She didn't need to know. She was happy. We were happy. Spouses do all sorts of things for themselves to keep them a good parent and partner. Because she found out on her own, through snooping, she has a different idea of the story. I made a mistake that let her discover it, that's my fault. I should have been more careful for her. But she doesn't know the full story and is filling in the gaps herself. She won't answer my calls, I don't know where she is, her parents haven't seen her, her friends won't answer me. Our oldest won't answer his phone and I can't track it. I need her to come home and talk to me about it. We can fix it.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

5 to 1, we scare @dest off with TAM 2x4.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...


If your wife is smart (and I hope to God she is) she won't come back. You DON'T love her. Not at all. If you "think" you do - set her free to find someone who will actually love and respect her. Because you sure as hell don't.


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## Penny905 (Mar 28, 2014)

dest said:


> She didn't need to know. She was happy. We were happy..


Really? You can't be serious.......


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...


WOW. Its clear from this post that you are not repentant at all. That you dont see what was wrong with what you did because apparently 'spouses do all sorts of things for themselves to keep them a good parent and partner.' Really? Also that you see nothing wrong with lying and being deceptive towards your wife for all those years, or with having an affair because really she is just an old friend after all so it doesnt matter that you had sex with her. After all she isn't some young floozie is she so its ok. Good grief. 

So what gaps is she fling in? You had sex with her several times, you kissed many times, you basically went on dates with her. You texted her many times, sent photos. I cant see what gaps she is filling in. 

Until you can see that what you did was completely wrong, that your moral values are very low, that adultery is a very very serious and awful thing to do, and that you are 100% repentant, there is no point in talking to her anyway. You have wrecked their lives and yet you are here trying to justify what you did and making out it really isn't that bad. To be honest you dont deserve them back.

Have you cut off all contact with the OW yet? 

If she read/heard what you have just written she would be even more sure that the marriage is over. You seem to have no concept of love and faithfulness, nor of the deep pain you have caused her and the children. 

You are also very arrogantly saying we can fix this if she will only come back. You have destroyed this marriage, its her decision alone as to whether she wants to try again, but I wouldn't trust you not to stay away from the OW from what you have said.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

End all contact with the other woman. Let your wife come to you. Be there with honest humble answers if she does. Ball is in her court, it?s up to her what she does now with the marriage. Don?t try to force things, this is your own doing.

If she stays, she will not be the same. I?ve had lots of friends who worked it out after their affair and their wives were justifiably jealous and cold and different.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Until you can see that what you did was completely wrong, that your moral values are very low and that adultery is a very very serious and awful thing to do, and that you are 100% repentant, there is no point in talking to her anyway. You have wrecked their lives and yet you are here trying to justify what you did. To be honest you dont deserve them back.


This is exactly correct. And I, as the victim of the same treatment from a WW who wasn't repentant in the slightest way for her adultery, her line was "....I'm sorry _this_ had to hurt you...."...

I can tell you of fact, I forgave her. I put away my malice toward her, I held no "right" to re-pay her for what she did.
However, I can also tell you of fact, that I never again allowed myself to be intimate and vulnerable with her. Because I knew, deep inside, I knew, that she was not repentant, and would have just done it to me again.


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## Leroi (May 13, 2016)

What have you got in exchange of some sex? nothing
What have you lost? everything

Was it worth it?
A simple question that comes too late.

Not so sorry for you, mate, you deserve it.
Just don't say you love her, because you don't; you are still looking for excuses, and are putting the blame on her ("busy with everything other than her family").


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

This is pretty simple. Are you willing to give up your affair for your wife? If so, then if she never found out about it, would you have stopped it on your own? 

So, given the circumstance that this doesn't mean enough to you to end your marriage, but wasn't worth ended before she found out, all you care about is yourself and not your wife or your marriage.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

dest said:


> I made a mistake that let her discover it, that's my fault. I should have been more careful for her.


No. Your mistake, or I should say choice, was to cheat on your wife. You regret getting caught, not breaking your marriage vows. When you finally have a chance to talk to your wife, you'd be well advised to adjust that attitude. You better own what you did, demonstrate genuine remorse, and accept any consequence she gives you - including divorce; if you want any chance to save your marriage.


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## Don't Panic (Apr 2, 2017)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...


Yes, you most certainly did. What an epic betrayal....16 years, within a 15 year marriage! 
Your lack of self-awareness is profound and problematic.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

What you did was worse than an affair with a stranger.

It will have hurt her far more.

You blew your family up.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

dest said:


> She is someone from my past. It's not like I went and found a 20 year old to make my play toy. I didn't go and live a separate life with another hidden family. I am friends with a woman I have known a good portion of my life and on occasion things progressed. I do love her. And I love my wife. You can love more than one person, people do it everyday with their families and children.


Sorry dude but you should like the guy who says, I killed him with a gun, but it wasn't with a knife. Her being a friend and your same age means nothing.

Yes it's true you can love more then one person, there are a lot of things you CAN do that you shouldn't. Sounds like you wife doesn't accept this arrangement. That wasn't the terms of your contract. So yeah people do it people do lots of ****ty stuff. 

What does it say about you that you can't commit your whole person to one of these women. Instead you string them both along. Healthy people when they are in love usually want to be open about it and share it with other people. They want to go out and spend time with the ones they love, show the world their love together. Build a life together. Cheater always hide the one the supposedly love, to me that is a strange way to show love. But that's the rub isn't it, what you have for this other woman is really the shallowest form of love (lust). It doesn't involve commitment or sacrifice, it only involves your feels. You can call it love if you want but it's really not worth much. 

If you are that upset with your wife or if she left the marriage for her career you should have ended it before you started something new. Then you could have actually had a real relationship with this other women. Did your wife know about the first kiss 5 years ago? Is that the real reason she left the marriage?

Let me guess your girlfriend is married too right? Does her husband know? 

If you keep making excuses you will not fix your marriage. You are off to a bad start. You absolutely lived a double life, it's kind of pathetic that you don't get that. Frankly your last paragraph makes you a terrible choice as someone to be married to. You are not authentic, you are not a real honest person even with yourself. If you are incapable of accepting that what you did is wrong and there is no excuse then just end your marriage now. Again it's going to take monumental work, just to get your wife to stay. Having an affair in most cases doesn't get your spouse to recommit to the relationship. Unless she is codependent and has her own set of emotional problems, your description of your wife doesn't make her sound that way. At best I think you may get a small window with a chance and then you would be living on a razors edge for a long time as you should be. 

Make no mistake fixing it involves everything I wrote in my first post to you. If you don't even get what you did is wrong you have no chance at all. You will just continue to cheat and eventually your wife will leave you, if she hasn't already. You don't deserve to be married to anyone at this point. And your girlfriend will eventually leave you as well or cheat on you. She isn't exactly a paragon of virtue. See you accepted a bad deal as well. You could have one fully committed authentic relationship, instead you have two broken ones.


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

The ambulance is parked outside, the hospital will be treating you for a severe concussion. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Loveless17 (Oct 16, 2017)

Give both yourself and her time. Keep in mind that maybe your marriage wasn't as good as you thought. Maybe you only want her now because she walked away. Men chase after what they think they can't have. You wouldn't have needed the extra friendship if you felt complete in your marriage.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Loveless17 said:


> Give both yourself and her time. Keep in mind that maybe your marriage wasn't as good as you thought. Maybe you only want her now because she walked away. Men chase after what they think they can't have. You wouldn't have needed the extra friendship if you felt complete in your marriage.


Feeling complete for people who cheat almost all of the time has nothing to do with the marriage. A marriage should never be seen as a thing to complete you. You should go into a marriage as complete, that gives you the best chance. People who are broken don't become whole by getting married, they are just a broken person who is married.


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## Loveless17 (Oct 16, 2017)

You just admitted to being broken and that feeling complete has nothing to do with marriage. You shouldn't be married. Period. You will cheat on her again if she comes back.


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## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

Don't Panic said:


> Yes, you most certainly did. What an epic betrayal....16 years, within a 15 year marriage!
> Your lack of self-awareness is profound and problematic.


I'm in awe that this guy actually thinks he did nothing wrong. His sense of entitlement is beyond reproach.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If your wife knows the full truth of the affair, I doubt she will return. The next time you hear from her will be the process server with divorce papers.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. Define what you mean by a "good" marriage.  I wonder if your wife would agree? My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. (when you were 12 and 10 years oldWe had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family. She was busy earning a living while bringing up kids and while you were fvcking around - cant understand why she didn't just kick your ass to the kerb when she found out you were in contact.
> 
> ...


 At the very least give her an amicable divorce


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. *She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job.* She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...


So, she doesn't really need you. What's her number? I'm single.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Herschel said:


> If so, then if she never found out about it, would you have stopped it on your own? .


The answer is already no. He admits to multiple times ending contact only to reconnect and eventually escalate to full blown sex.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...


Uhhh... no.

Sorry, but you don’t have the mindset necessary for reconciliation, and the details that you _think_ matter so much?

They don’t.

Hope the juice was worth the squeeze.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> The answer is already no. He admits to multiple times ending contact only to reconnect and eventually escalate to full blown sex.


I hear you. It was a rhetorical question to drive home my point.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...



Yes sir. Trickle truth your W. Let us know how that works out for you. 

Your W need full disclosure. Anything less and she finds something new becomes another DD. You start all over again...if your W allows it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

dest said:


> We have been* married for 15 years,* ..... We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage....
> 
> ....I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. ..... *Got back in contact 16 years ago*. .....*I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago*. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk.
> 
> ...


OK, my 2 cents. Get MW Davis Book Divorce Busting. There may be hope to save the marriage, but you are going to have to change your belief system and understand how your wife views this. Your wife's perspective will determine whether the marriage can be saved. Your reality needs to become how your wife see this.

As to being able to love more than one person at a time. Yes, that can happen in certain relationships, but it is the exception to the rule.

As to your mistake being that you didn't hide the truth of what you were doing well enough to keep her from finding out about your sexual affair behind her back................I can fully understand why she is keeping you as far away from her and her children as possible.

Just like in AA, the first step in recovery is to admit that you have a problem and that you alone are responsible for your actions. Once you accept your responsibility, then you can apologize to your wife for what you did. Concurrently you can work on changing your life and your "commitment" to your marriage and family.

By the way one of the little discussed hallmarks of a good marriage is "commitment." That means giving up things for the benefit of the marriage. Commitment to your family and marriage means not having the woman you have known and sexually loved longer than your wife in your life. It means putting your family first in such obvious ways that your wife and children totally trust you.

You understand that you made a mistake. That is a start. When you realize that the mistake was your actions and not you not covering things up better, then you might be able to start the process of saving what is left of your marriage.

Understand that it will never be what it was. If you can save it, it will be a much different "marriage" and relationship with your wife. It might be enough so that you will be satisfied with it, since you say you love your wife and family.

Again, assuming you really want to save your marriage, get some individual counseling, read MW Davis book, and then ask your wife to go to marriage counseling with you.

Good luck.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

[ssssss


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

The way to fix this is to give your wife a favorable divorce and go be with your childhood playtoy. There's not much you can do to save your marriage coming at it from the mindset you are in. Your wife would have to be a complete doormat chump to listen to your ridiculous excuses. If by some odd chance she does eventually give you a chance, give her a COMPLETE written timeline and don't leave out ANYTHING. Give her access to all of your electronic means of communication, and have absolute 100% no contact with your affair partner.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Hey there, @dest. My name's Ella, and I'm sorry you're going through this. You have my full support and empathy. You are NOT a bad person and you deserve good things. I know you have it in you to get through this and survive. May I offer you some advice and resources? I have to warn you, this is going to be a long one, mostly copy-pasted from things I've posted on other infidelity websites.

*TL;DR: You're not a bad person. Don't hate yourself. Take as much time to relax and heal yourself as you can. Do what your spouse asks you to, but set a deadline for a later date so you can prepare. Validate and comfort yourself. Grieve for the relationship(s) you've lost. Understand your feelings. Try to understand your spouse's feelings. Seriously, DO NOT HATE YOURSELF. Reward yourself for doing the right thing. Click the blue links below for more help. You can do this. I believe in you.*

In my search through half a dozen books, hundreds of articles, and thousands of forum posts on multiple websites dedicated to recovering from infidelity, I noticed that something was missing. There was a wealth of good advice on how to comfort your Betrayed Spouse, but very little on how to comfort yourself. So many Wayward Spouses, whilst trying to navigate the mess they made, find themselves biting their tongues in a herculean effort not to wail, “But what about ME?!! This hurts ME too, you know!!”

And if you, as a Wayward Husband, have ever actually said that aloud, you’ve probably been made aware of how selfish it sounds. Almost everyone who finds out about the affair, from your Betrayed Spouse to their friends and family to your co-workers to strangers on the internet, are going to be judgmental and quite possibly a little hateful towards you. They couldn’t care less if they tried about your feelings, and might even want you to suffer. This is to be expected. After all, you broke your Betrayed Wife’s heart and very likely traumatized them for life. People have been _commonly_ known to develop severe physical and psychological symptoms identical to PTSD following an affair. And the later the affair is discovered, the worse it is, so unfortunately you will have to tell your wife.
At the same time, though, your needs are still valid. Your pain is still valid. You may not have a right to say so out loud to your partner, but you have a right to feel how you feel. You can’t control other people’s criticism or insults. But you can still control you, and if you treat yourself well you can make this a little less agonizing on yourself.


* 1)Take time for yourself if at all possible.* Schedule time in. Mark it on your calendar. Most people probably don’t have this much time, but an hour on weekdays, 2-3 days a week, and several hours on Saturday or Sunday is ideal if you can spare it.

You should use 2/3 of your free time to focus on helping your wife and rebuilding your bond, and the remaining 1/3 is yours to process and heal. For example, if you have 2 hours free on a certain weeknight, 40 minutes should be dedicated to processing and healing.

This will be easier if your wife has turns her back on you once you tell her, and you end up living alone. If you haven't been kicked out of the marital home, you will need to inform your Betrayed Wife that you would like to spend X amount of time a week alone, thinking about what you've done. The fact that you’re asking for time to process will prove to them that you're trying, but you SHOULDN'T spend that time whipping yourself. Use the time to deal with the consequences of your actions, yes, but also to process and honor your emotions, and to relax and have some much-needed downtime. 

If you find yourself depressed, alone, not wanting to go out, and just generally beside yourself with emotion and you don't know what to do, You Feel Like Sh*t is my favorite self-care guide in that it's interactive. It asks you a series of questions and then gives you advice, one step at a time, based upon your responses. I often use it when I'm feeling so upset I don't think I even have the power to move, or when I'm feeling vaguely "bad" but have no idea why. Nine times out of ten, it gets me back on my feet. It would be a great tool to use (in conjunction with the abandonment workbook and a long bubble bath!) when you're feeling particularly stressed over your Betrayed's pain or especially mournful over your former Mistress. Obviously, if even that doesn't help, you feel suicidal, and/or you're bogged down with sadness in a way that seems overbearing or unusual for you, see a doctor or a therapist, of which I am neither.

You probably have restrictions now about where you can be and when and with whom. But you can work within them and carve out space for yourself even so. For example, your Betrayed Spouse might not want you to leave the house by yourself for anything other than work or errands. That’s okay. You can take up a spare bedroom with just yourself, a relaxing hobby, and/or a marriage book specifically for Wayward Spouses. Shut yourself in the bathroom and have a bubble bath with some relaxing music playing. Watch a light-hearted movie (No romances for now). If you ARE going out, offer to check in every hour, and send a text or a photo of yourself. In between check-ins, take the time to relax, pamper yourself (because you DESERVE IT!!), and process your feelings. I'll tell you more about HOW, exactly, to process your feelings below.

2) *Name your feelings.* An unfortunate part of being a Wayward Husband is that you seem to forfeit the rights to your own feelings. You can’t go to your ex for comfort, your friends and family will probably be too furious with you to help you identify and process your emotions. Commonly, the advice is given that whatever you do, you can’t expect your wifeto be considerate of your feelings. Since you and your feelings for your affair partner have caused so much pain and suffering to your Betrayed Wife, chances are pretty good that they couldn’t care less what your feelings are about your infidelity. That is valid. They have every right to be hurt.

BUT, your emotions are valid too, and you have a right- indeed, an obligation to yourself- to feel them in their entirety. During your aforementioned alone time, it can really help state your feelings out loud into a voice recorder, or write them down in a journal- _especially_ if they are the sort of feelings that aren’t socially acceptable to share with others. Go into detail about your feelings. Examples might be, “I feel angry with my Betrayed Wife because s/he isn't sympathetic towards me over the loss of my Mistress” Or, “I feel grieved because I heard a song on the radio that reminded me of my affair partner and I wish I could go see her”. 

Your feelings may not be socially acceptable to talk about, and they may be wrong to act upon, but feelings, in and of themselves, are neither good nor bad. They are what they are, and you have the right to feel them.

If you are having trouble identifying or expressing your emotions, it would be VERY wise to get an individual counselor with experience in infidelity to vent to. They will help you process without judging you, yet still hold you accountable for your actions.

*3) Validate yourself.* During this time where it may feel like no one is there for you, be your own best friend. Be kind to yourself. Don’t lie to yourself or minimize what you’ve done, but don’t be overly harsh either. Heaven knows you get enough vitriol from everybody else. So acknowledge your successes, even if you’re the only one who will. 

Validation does not mean that the affair was okay or that you should act on your feelings, only that you recognize the feelings are there. Address yourself comfortingly and soothingly without justifying the affair. For example, if you’ve gone two weeks without talking to your affair partner, you could say, “I’ve been through two weeks of missing my ex, and I survived! Someday soon, I won’t miss her anymore.” Or if your Betrayed Wife lashes out at you, you might think to yourself, “This is really painful and difficult for me, but I’m doing the best I can, and can get through it.” If you miss your affair partner and want to call her, you might say to yourself, "It's natural to miss someone I've had a romantic/sexual relationship with, but I can't call her because I made a promise to my wife not to hurt her anymore by contacting my ex."

*4) Grieve.* Most of the advice on infidelity websites states that you should never allow your feelings of sorrow to get in the way of helping your Betrayed Wife to heal. That you should never allow your grief to be an excuse to resume the affair or to avoid personal accountability for the affair. This advice is absolutely correct, but despite what anyone else says, you do have a right to be upset.

The truth of the matter is, you’re grieving the loss of a relationship. It was a wrong relationship, an illegitimate relationship, a relationship you should never have had. But it was still something you lost. You broke up with your affair partner; it’s a breakup. Your Betrayed Wife could very well divorce you in the aftermath of your infidelity, so you may be grieving the loss of your marriage as well. And if you bottle up all that grief and pretend you don't feel it, it's going to come out in more destructive ways later. 

So it's very important that you take some time for yourself (Preferably, the aforementioned alone time) to process your own pain. Go ahead, indulge. Eat half a pint of ice cream, play that one sad love song over and over, write your mistress a letter and burn it. Break out the tissues and cry until you're totally spent, then wash your face and have some tea. Punch things. Do all the things people do to move past a breakup, so long as nothing you’re doing is harmful (such as drinking, drugs, or texting your ex). This is a breakup, and you’re strong enough to get through it.

Thisis a link I've found telling you a little more and how and why getting rid of all your grief and pain is important. It’s a publication that tells a wayward spouse who is considering ending or who has just ended an affair how to go no-contact, stay no-contact, and deal with their own private grief over losing their affair partner. It explains that while going no-contact, getting rid of affair memorabilia, and banishing them from your heart is necessary, it also says that honest, true, and final grieving for the fantasy life you thought was real is equally necessary. It offers no judgment of a Wayward's character, only of their actions.

Another book I love is The Abandonment Recovery Workbook and it is one I have bought and used myself. I didn't use it to get over my Other Man specifically, but rather to grieve the loss of a friendship. Still, as it was written with both Wayward Spouses AND Betrayed Spouses in mind, and does not differentiate between either's pain, and treats them with equal compassion, I consider it absolutely ideal in helping the grieved and hurting Wayward deal non-judgmentally with the sometimes all-consuming pain that composes the consequences of your actions and the loss of your fantasy relationship.

* 5) Practice empathy.* Sometimes self-care means doing difficult things, things that you dread doing in the short run, because you know it will make your life better in the long run. 
Once you have labeled your feelings and felt them, do your best to imagine what it would be like if the person you loved romantically cheated on you. Try to develop empathy for your Betrayed Wife. Imagine if she had an affair (or if your Mistress cheated on you) and she felt for her affair partner what you feel for yours. Imagine if she told you she wished you’d stop complaining because she’s suffering too. Think about how this would make you feel. This is *not* to shame you, but to develop empathy and remorse. 
Yes, you’re hurting because of what you’ve done, and you absolutely have the right to feel and process all of your hurt, but your Betrayed Wife is hurting as well. She needs you. So put yourself in her shoes, and go read all of those other books, the ones that tell you how to help your Betrayed Spouse, and take the advice on board. Even if it feels miserable to face up to what you’ve done or to have to comfort someone else when you’re in pain, it will make your marriage better in the long run. 
If it takes you too long to come to the recognition that you have severely hurt your wife and that you need to help her, you'll probably lose your wife. Therefore, I recommend you at least _start_ trying to read the below material whether you feel ready or not. The eagerness to help heal will come with time. If you lead with the head, the heart will follow eventually. 

Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass is an oft-recommended gold standard for both Wayward and Betrayed Spouses, as it helps to elucidate BOTH parties' thoughts, feelings, and motivations during every stage of an affair and afterwards. There are some hard-hitting truths in here about the real nature, consequences, and longevity of affair relationships, but if you're a Wayward Spouse, they are things you need to hear. You can't properly grieve for the alleged "perfect relationship" you've lost if you don't understand why you never really had it in the first place. It also gives you some pointers on what your wife is currently feeling and why, and what you can do to help them feel better. Myself, I bought the e-book and the audiobook and my Betrayed Husband and I listen together to a few chapters every once in a while. He says he finds it enlightening rather than triggering.



How to Help your Spouse Heal from Your Affair is another big one people recommend here a lot. I've read it, and while I personally find it a little dry and unemotional, it's a decent how-to guide. I've also read an article by our very own @Affaircare called Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse and it is much more succinct and to-the-point about what your wife is feeling, why she is feeling that way, and how to help her through the pain your actions have caused her. 
Word of obvious warning, this isn't easy stuff to digest. A lot of it will trigger feelings of guilt and shame. For the most part, the only way to cope with that is to push the feelings down for a little while in moments when your spouse needs you to listen to them, comfort them, and reassure them. Forget what you feel for a few short moments and focus on doing and saying whatever they need you to. Focus on being their healer. You can take time to yourself later to decompress and unpack your horrible, guilty, doleful feelings when you are alone.


6) *Find out why you cheated.* In the same vein as processing your feelings and emotions about the affair, you also need to process your feelings and emotions *before* the affair. This is a several-step process, and you might have to stop and regroup (or grieve, or rest) several times. That's more than okay. This stuff hurts _really_ badly a lot of the time, and you are EXTREMELY brave to attempt to do it. But don't shy away from the pain because you need to feel it in order to heal.

Try and remember what you were thinking and feeling most of the time just before you fell for your affair partner(s). Did you often feel lonely? Angry? Empty? Numb? Dissatisfied? Write down these feelings in a journal. It's okay if you didn't feel any of those things, but write that down too. 

Now try and remember how you felt when you met your Mistress(es). Remember all the feelings they inspired in you and all the thoughts you had about them. Examples of such thoughts might include, "She looks so sweet", "She's really sexy", "She seems nurturing", "She's funny."

Next, remember and write down all the things you loved about your Mistress, and everything she did for you while you were in the relationship or having the one night stand(s). Examples might be that she gave you really great sex, or that she was your crying shoulder, or that she was spontaneous and made you laugh.

If you have all three of those categories written down, you now have a vague idea of why you cheated, because you know what was missing in your life, and what you may have been subconsciously looking for in your relationship(s) that made the affair(s) look attractive to you. And you might begin to formulate a way to meet those needs yourself. For example, if you often felt lonely, and you loved your affair partner because he was nurturing and kind, you now know that you need comfort and emotional support, and from there you can find a way to get that emotional support without cheating on your spouse again. If you often felt bored pre-affair, and the first thing you noticed about your mistress was how young and beautiful she was, and you loved her sense of humor and her skill in bed, you now know that you need sexual excitement, and if you reconcile you might be able to get that from your spouse without needing to have another affair.

All of this is very hard work, and may take months to properly analyze and figure out. And, of course, there might be other factors such as mental illness, drug addiction, childhood abuse, and more. If it is at ALL possible, I STRONGLY recommend you see a therapist for help in sorting out your reasons for cheating.



*7) Take time to prepare for big tasks.* If your wife asks you to do something that makes you feel overwhelmed, hopeless and terrified (e.g. write a timeline, take a polygraph exam, or have a long conversation about the affair) plan out when specifically- date and time- that you will be able to fulfill said request. Tell your wife, "I will (insert request here), but I need some time to prepare. Can I (insert request here) for you on (date) at (time)?” Then take a break. 

Process your feelings and relax until the specified time. Having a deadline or a specific time set means you can't avoid your partner's request. No excuses. It has to be done on time, but since you've taken time beforehand, you will hopefully be as relaxed and prepared as you can be when the time comes.

* 8) Separate shame from remorse.* So much of the counsel in infidelity circles chastens the Wayward Spouse to become remorseful, and fast. The same advisors will tell the betrayed to look for remorse in their partner- and leave if they don’t see enough of it. But remorse isn’t shame. Shame involves self-loathing and it considers the fatal flaw to be you as a person, not the infidelity. Shame says, “I’m a terrible person. I’ll always be a terrible person. I’m worthless. Why even try?” 

Remorse, on the other hand, knows that the flaw was in what you did, but not in who you are. Remorse says, “I made a terrible choice. I devastated my wife, and that will take a long time to recover from. But I can and will recover from it because I am capable of being a better person than my actions have shown. From now on, I’m going to be the good person I know I can be.” Remorse is determined, rather than defeated. When you catch yourself calling yourself names or condemning yourself, try to re-frame the thought as hating your past behavior rather than hating who you are as a person.

* 9) Reward Yourself.* You probably don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel right now, and the horrific reality of where your marriage now stands coupled with the pain of loss might make it that much harder for you to find motivation to do what’s right. You can light a candle or two in that tunnel yourself, though. Every week you don’t text your Mistress, every time you take a major step towards healing your Betrayed Wife and yourself, every hurdle you overcome is cause to celebrate your progress. Reward yourself for sticking with it. 
Perhaps give yourself X amount of money every week you don’t contact your ex affair partner, and save up to buy something extravagant. Examples might be a spa treatment, a new device of your choosing, or a new playlist from iTunes. 

Another thing you might do is to reward yourself with something special after you’ve overcome a hurdle such as taking a polygraph, or reached a milestone such as 6 months without your affair partner. Especially when no one else is willing to acknowledge your accomplishments, do so yourself and treat yourself after doing something especially emotionally taxing.

Again, I'm so sorry that you're going through this. The worst part about being a Wayward Spouse is that no one seems to care about your suffering. The Betrayed Spouse comes first, which leaves precious little room for your own hurt and healing. While it’s true that you must now put your wife’s needs above your own, the good news is that you don’t have to neglect yourself in the process. If you have cheated on your spouse and are now trying to navigate the chaotic despair, I wish you good luck, better guidance, and healing. As an end note, please remember that this too shall pass, even if it looks from all angles that your life will be like this forever. It won't. As you and your Betrayed Spouse heal together, you can take comfort in knowing that you were part of their healing.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

dest said:


> *We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore. *
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. *Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.*
> 
> ...



Umm...yeah. Unless you're very bad at math, it must be obvious that blaming your wife's not being "really present anymore" because she "was too busy with everything other than our family" for your affair doesn't really fly. She started working more after your 8 year old started school. So that's 2-3 years ago. You were basically dating your affair partner off and on beginning 16 years ago. You were having sex with your affair partner 5 years ago. Logical thought would indicate that it's unlikely that a situation is _caused_ by an event that came _after_ that situation first existed. It is therefore pretty unlikely that your wife working more, beginning 2 years ago, was the cause of your having been cheating on her for the past 16 years.

So, blaming your affair on your wife is not only unfair, it's also patently untrue. That should be obvious to even a wayward as deeply mired in the fog as you are. Which leads me to think that maybe you're not really blaming your wife for the affair. You're blaming her for finding out that you were cheating and messing up your sweet little arrangement. I think you also may be kinda pissed that your little fool of a wife finally wised up when you didn't think she ever would. After all, if she hadn't then things would still be great. 

Just stop. Normal people do not treat their friends, much less people they love that way. You do not love your wife. You hold her in deep contempt. You have lied to her, gas lighted her, made a fool of her, humiliated her, every single day for nearly two decades. Just stop.


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## dest (Oct 26, 2017)

Don't make it seem worse than it is. I have never ****ing raped my wife. Having an affair and raping her are two entirely different things and it's disgusting to compare the two. 

I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication. I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous. The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair. 

I understand that she needs space right now, but until when? I can't try and fix our marriage if she won't talk to me and I don't know where she is. She has our kids with her. Who knows where they are, what they are doing, what she is telling them to turn them against me. I could call the police over it, how is that not kidnapping? At some point I may have to. They could all be dead for all I know. 

She found a secondary phone I have, that had pictures and messages on it. She still has that in her possession. She doesn't have the full story. She thinks I have been having a solid affair for the entirety of our relationship (pre-marriage and marriage). To the extent of saying that SHE is the "other woman". Before she left she was questioning everything about our life, most of which was untrue. Pulling up details from 10 years ago that have NOTHING to do with my affair, but she will connect anything to it to hurt herself. She even said that the other woman's children are mine, she is going to drive herself insane if she doesn't just talk to me. Yes, what I did was bad, but there is a difference between a 16 year affair and what I've done. It wasn't good, but there is worse. 

My wife knew that I kissed the other woman 10 years ago. I told her about one occasion after it happened. It has no correlation to her working more and abandoning our marriage and kids. That is on her. She was obviously upset and our marriage struggled for a while, but we recovered from that. Why not again? She still has the phone in her possession, and it's bad. She can see everything there and will draw the wrong conclusions. I understand coming clean about cheating in some situations, but I don't believe a cheater should always come clean just to clear their conscience and shift the hurt to someone else. She already knows. The deed is done. I can't erase her mind. But she doesn't need to see all of the things that I said to my other woman or the pictures we took together and for each other. I went on a trip recently with the other woman and there is proof of that on that phone. She will have the wrong ideas about that. I know here and she obsesses over details. I know she will read everything over and over. She will obsess over it. That isn't going to help us and it sure isn't going to help her. Like I said, she already knows I had an affair and I can't erase her mind but she doesn't need to make it worse for herself. Knowing the fact is enough. It's about more than protecting myself, she needs to be protected from herself. My wife has called the woman apparently, I guess she can talk to her but not to me. 

Full exposure sounds like suicide. She has full exposure right now and that's not getting me too far. I didn't expect her to find that phone. There was a reason I was using an old phone for communication. I wasn't planning on her finding it or looking for it and hadn't deleted things in months. She has all the exposure she wants and she's not running back to me. It's ****ing me over more than anything. She is overwhelmed with information and it's willing to just talk about it and see the real side. How would more possibly help? She had full access to my computer, tablet, other phone, everything and didn't suspect anything until recently. It's not going to help at all. She will drive herself crazy looking for dirt. 

And a lie detector test? Are you serious? This isn't CSI or whatever crap shows are on TV now. An STD test is unnecessary and will make my wife thing I've been sleeping with more than one person. I'm not making this worse. 

A lot of people do things they enjoy and only stop when they come to light. I am sorry that my wife is hurting and that what I did hurt her. I am not a narcissistic bastard, I didn't do this to hurt her. 

So how do I talk to my wife to get her to understand and give us another chance? She hates me, ok, but how do I change that? She changed her bank password so I can't login and see what she's been doing. I called our kids schools and they haven't bene in attendance the past days. Like I said, for all I know they are dead. 

I do not want to lose my wife or my kids. We have both made mistakes but this is something that we can fix. I just need to get her to listen to me. She should have trusted me and I shouldn't have broken her trust. She could have tried to talk to me about her worries, rather than take things into her own hands. We have been together for 15 years and have 4 kids, we have worked hard to get to where we are today and the lifestyle we have, that isn't something to throw away without talking it through.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Assuming the facts really are as presented, it's obviously her choice what she wants to do. 

Until she lets you know, back off.


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## dest (Oct 26, 2017)

Yes I know it's her choice if she wants to stay married to me or not but I need to help her get there to make the decision. She can't make a decision if she doesn't know the whole story. That is like someone being charged with a crime and getting the death penalty without the jury even listening to their side and just looking at a fraction of the evidence.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Why should she fix anything with you? You weren't worried about losing your wife and kids while you were doing the things that would most likely cause you to lose your wife and kids. It's like the 30 year smoker who can't believe he actually gets lung cancer. 

You sound like a typical entitled wayward spouse who thinks everyone owes him. 

Your wife could have done a lot of things different but you're not here because of her actions, no matter how you want to justify or rationalize it all. Your actions have gotten you to your current situation. You were the one with the power.

What do you think you can tell her that will fix this? You cheated. You cheated off and on for a very long time. Your wife was suspicious about your OW and she was right. You're going to tell her that it's wrong? That it's not what she thinks it is?

It is what she thinks it is. "It's not as bad as you think" isn't going to get you anywhere. It's not the truth. It's just you trying to weasel your way back in. You just want to try to convince her like an attorney tries to convince a jury. 

You post 0 accountability or responsibility. Your wife would be well off to stay away from you unless or until you begin to see things differently.


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

dianaelaine59 said:


> The ambulance is parked outside, the hospital will be treating you for a severe concussion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




From the 2x4's .... in case you guys didn't know what I was referring to. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

dest said:


> Don't make it seem worse than it is. I have never ****ing raped my wife. Having an affair and raping her are two entirely different things and it's disgusting to compare the two.
> 
> I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication. I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous. The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair.
> 
> ...


Haha you cheaters kill me what exactly is the "wrong idea" a wife would get from photos of her husband's trip with his lover? Too funny. :rofl:

You can't be for real. 

Moving on, dude I gave you your only chance with detailed instructions yesterday in my first post to you. What I wrote was the standard advice that every one of these sites give when it comes to infidelity. Besides all that the most important thing you can do is humble yourself and be contrite. Your post yesterday about how she should have never found out about it was monstrous. Be honest would you want to be in your marriage if your wife was having an affair with another man and saying what you don't know won't hurt you? Even if you would your wife doesn't, what she had with you was not the terms of your agreement. Would you want to be married to you? YOU NEED TO GET THIS. If you don't there is no chance. 

One other thing, you keep saying she just needs to talk to you. Why do you still think she will believe anything you say? All you have done has lied about your entire person. Does it make any logical sense for her to believe you? Do you really think so little of your wife? I mean I know you don't care about her as much as you do your penis but do you think she is an idiot? Did you marry and have kids with an idiot? I know you pathological liars are so use to lying your way out of everything that you think if you just have more time to lie you can get out of it, but even you have to know there is a point of no return. (I mean common dude you sound a little delusional) You are not getting it. You live in an entirely different world now. Your wife will never believe another word you say ever again, and rightly so. Every word you say now will have to be backed up with action. 

Truth is you lost, you have no power. You live in your wife's world now. Just like you took all her power away from the marriage when you chose to cheat. You also gave her all the power in the aftermath. Everything from this day forward will be up to her. Most likely she is going to divorce you and not be nice about it, and there is absolutely nothing you can do. 

If you want to survive with her, your kid and even have the possibility of a decent life, read my post, do the steps. Turn away from the darkside.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

dest said:


> Don't make it seem worse than it is. I have never ****ing raped my wife. Having an affair and raping her are two entirely different things and it's disgusting to compare the two.
> 
> I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication. I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous. The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair.
> 
> ...




Reverse the roles, you just found out, how fast would you be running back?? Your regret is amazing, what you don't get is even more amazing. You got caught, your affair partner is caught, and maybe your wife will contact her husband. I would advise to if your wife came here. What you need to do is give your wife space. For as long as SHE NEEDS. I can tell you this though, it doesn't look good for you, maybe contact your affair partner and ask her if you are even human. You have no idea what you did to your wife.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dest said:


> We have been married for 15 years, my wife is 34 and I am 44. We have 4 kids who are 8-16. Up until the last couple years we have had a good marriage. My wife has been working a lot more, which started when our youngest went into school. She has a high paying but time consuming and stressful job. She often brings work home with her. Our kids have noticed that she isn't really present anymore.
> 
> I met my "affair partner" 32 years ago. We had an on and off relationship through high school. Fell out of contact for about 9 years. Got back in contact 16 years ago. She contacted me. We talked online and on the phone. I went met her for coffee sometimes. We'd kiss. We'd go back to no contact for months or over a year at a time. My wife was aware that I was talking to her and that I met up with her as friends catching up. She was not happy about it but knew about it. I had sex with her a few times about 5 years ago. Again falling in and out of contact. 2 years ago we got back in contact and have stayed in contact. I have seen her on a semi regular basis but mostly we just talk. My wife didn't notice. She was too busy with everything other than our family.
> 
> ...


You are quite unbelievable. You write this as if you are entitled to have a woman on the side blameshifting your infidelity to your wife (she is too busy working, etc maybe she has to work because you are not earning enough and providing for your family instead chasing another woman).

You justify why you are unfaithful as if knowing the OW since you were kids makes it alright. No it does not. 
You have lied and are still lying to your wife, she is completely right to investigate and then divorce your ass, you do not deserve a second chance for this level of betrayal. 
And no, spouses do not go and cheat when the marriage is under duress or to put it in your words " spouses do all sorts of things for themselves to keep them a good parent and partner" You are absolutely delusional if you think cheating makes you a good partner, it makes you a lying cheating POS, nothing more or less.

i hope your wife finds comfort in the arms of a good, decent man who knows what being a husband and father is all about and I hope she can move on with her life and get as far away from you as possible and take the kids with her, they don't need you as an example in their lives.

You always have the OW to fall back on. And maybe one day you will feel the kind of pain you have inflicted on your wife to understand the true extent of how much of a lowlife you are.

An NO you cannot fix it, you need to fix yourself first and your thinking because it sure is totally screwed up. Maybe then you will be able to have a faithful decent relationship but your wife would be an utter fool to ever let you back into her life again.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

badmemory said:


> No. Your mistake, or I should say choice, was to cheat on your wife. You regret getting caught, not breaking your marriage vows. When you finally have a chance to talk to your wife, you'd be well advised to adjust that attitude. You better own what you did, demonstrate genuine remorse, and accept any consequence she gives you - including divorce; if you want any chance to save your marriage.


I hope the OP's wife has solid family and friends to advise her not to touch the Op with a barge pole, to run for the hills and never look back. He nuked his family and does not deserve his wife or family.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Hey there, @dest. My name's Ella, and I'm sorry you're going through this. You have my full support and empathy. You are NOT a bad person and you deserve good things. I know you have it in you to get through this and survive. May I offer you some advice and resources? I have to warn you, this is going to be a long one, mostly copy-pasted from things I've posted on other infidelity websites.
> 
> *TL;DR: You're not a bad person. Don't hate yourself. Take as much time to relax and heal yourself as you can. Do what your spouse asks you to, but set a deadline for a later date so you can prepare. Validate and comfort yourself. Grieve for the relationship(s) you've lost. Understand your feelings. Try to understand your spouse's feelings. Seriously, DO NOT HATE YOURSELF. Reward yourself for doing the right thing. Click the blue links below for more help. You can do this. I believe in you.*
> 
> ...


I think most of this will be wasted on the OP, he doesn't have the slightest clue of the enormity of what he has done over a prolonged period of time , he shows absolutely no empathy for his wife or family, he justifies his actions and even blames shifts onto her his actions. Your write up is for people who have faced the reality of what they have done and those who can muster empathy and remorse. 
This is merely throwing pearls before swine and a waste of your time.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dest said:


> Yes I know it's her choice if she wants to stay married to me or not but I need to help her get there to make the decision. She can't make a decision if she doesn't know the whole story. That is like someone being charged with a crime and getting the death penalty without the jury even listening to their side and just looking at a fraction of the evidence.


You have proved yourself to be a man who cant be trusted. Whether you cheated a few times or multiple times makes no difference. You have shattered her trust and not surprisingly she wants nothing more to do with you. 
If you call the police you will be making things even worse. 

No you don't need to help her make a decision with more lies and deception, she will make her own decision and has probably already made it. Few women would want a man back who had done what you have. This wasn't a one off drunken thing,(which would be bad enough) this was something that went on on and off for all of the marriage. So she contacted you again, and what, you were helpless not to reply? And went on to have an affair with her? 
You still cant see how very serious what you have done is. You still aren't repentant. You seem to think that once you tell her that you only actually had sex a few times that she will say, oh well that's ok then as long as it was only a few times it doesn't matter. Emotional affairs are also wrong. 

Yes you do need to be tested for STD's. You should have been after you had sex with her. A woman who has sex with a married man has very low morals and will probably be having sex with other married and single men as well. 

There is nothing you can do until such time as she chooses to contact you. Leave her in peace, her life has just been devastated by you. There are bad consequences to what you have done and now you are having to face the music. Poor woman. Poor kids.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dest said:


> Don't make it seem worse than it is. I have never ****ing raped my wife. Having an affair and raping her are two entirely different things and it's disgusting to compare the two.
> 
> I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication. I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous. The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair.
> 
> ...



Err, your wife didn't throw anyway anything, you threw away your marriage and family once you stuck your tongue down the throat of the OW, stuck your penis in her and took her on holidays. You deserve nothing except an amicable divorce and your OW


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

dest said:


> Yes I know it's her choice if she wants to stay married to me or not but I need to help her get there to make the decision. She can't make a decision if she doesn't know the whole story. That is like someone being charged with a crime and getting the death penalty without the jury even listening to their side and just looking at a fraction of the evidence.


I thought you said you didn't want her to know the full truth. Your version of the 'story' is not the truth is it, just more manipulation. Photographs and texts don't lie, apparently, you do. You are one for the dramatic, well now you are in a real-life family tragedy all started by yourself. When are you going to face the reality and enormity of what you have done and stop focusing on trying to control and manipulate your wife and start looking inward at yourself? 
What will it take for you to see how YOUR actions have destroyed a marriage and a family, none of which has anything to do with your wife and everything to do with the choices you made, knowingly and willingly? When?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dest said:


> Yes I know it's her choice if she wants to stay married to me or not but I need to help her get there to make the decision. She can't make a decision if she doesn't know the whole story. That is like someone being charged with a crime and getting the death penalty without the jury even listening to their side and just looking at a fraction of the evidence.


Your wife does not need your help to decide what she wants to do with her life after finding out the truth.

Did you ask her for her input before you decided to have an affair that was spread over 16 years? Of course not. You want to control your wife. 

Your wife does need complete revelation. I'm glad that she has your old phone, computer, etc. I'm glad that she is learning exactly what went on because you will only lie to her. And your wife has the right know the truth about her own marriage and cheater that she married.

Due to your wife's reaction to finding out about your affair, I doubt that she will stay in this marriage. She sounds like a strong woman who will not tolerate what you have done. Good for her.

You reap what you sow.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@dest

Is your affair partner married? Does she have children?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So what does "fixing" your marriage look like?

Convincing you wife that what you did is no big deal?

I suppose you'd like to continue screwing your ***** with your wife's permission?

Yeah..... can't imagine why she wouldn't want to come back.

"She" threw the marriage away. 

Rich. 

I hope it was worth it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

dest said:


> Don't make it seem worse than it is. I have never ****ing raped my wife. Having an affair and raping her are two entirely different things and it's disgusting to compare the two.
> 
> I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication. I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous. The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair.
> 
> ...


Contact her family first and if the children aren't made available or put back in school, call the authorities.

You certainly screwed the pooch but she can't just disappear with the children. 

Cut all contact with your "friend". She was not a real friend BTW to help you destroy your family.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> So what does "fixing" your marriage look like?
> 
> Convincing you wife that what you did is no big deal?
> 
> ...


“I’m so sorry I didn’t do a better job of hiding my years-long affair. I promise I’ll get even better at being a deceit-driven sneak so as not to hurt your needlessly dramatic sensibilities.

Please come home so I can share all of the super important details of my infidelity while simultaneously gaslighting you with respect to my intentions and convincing you that it’s all your fault.

Also, I forgive you for snooping.”


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Disappear. It’s the only chance she has of a truly happy ending.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Spicy said:


> Disappear. It’s the only chance she has of a truly happy ending.


Ah, yes, melt into the woodwork.

To be fair, he should say it was all on him and that he is sorry. Oh, tell all their friends and relatives the same truth.

Then, step totally out of her life.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I am for reconciliation 99.9% of the time. 

But I hope your wife never comes back.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> So, she doesn't really need you. What's her number? I'm single.


I kinda fell in e-love at this part right here.....;p



dest said:


> Don't make it seem worse than it is. I have never ****ing raped my wife. Having an affair and raping her are two entirely different things and it's disgusting to compare the two.
> 
> I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication. I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous. The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair.
> 
> ...


I hope you don't teach your children to become manipulators like you are.



aine said:


> You are quite unbelievable. You write this as if you are entitled to have a woman on the side blameshifting your infidelity to your wife (she is too busy working, etc maybe she has to work because you are not earning enough and providing for your family instead chasing another woman).


My thoughts, too. He seems quite angry at his wife for helping to provide for his children- and set a good example of trying to get ahead with hard work. 

Some one definitely lives in La-la land....and it ain't the Missus.



GusPolinski said:


> “I’m so sorry I didn’t do a better job of hiding my years-long affair. I promise I’ll get even better at being a deceit-driven sneak so as not to hurt your needlessly dramatic sensibilities.
> 
> Please come home so I can share all of the super important details of my infidelity while simultaneously gaslighting you with respect to my intentions and convincing you that it’s all your fault.
> 
> Also, I forgive you for snooping.”


This sums it all up in a nutshell. Hammer hitting nail on the head. 

Your wife would be crazy as hell to reconcile with you if you said even ONE thing to her among the many things you have said here. 

But then again, I don't think she's the one with issues....


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

So is this dude just a troll or what? This hits pretty good on a lot of stuff that would drive people on TAM batty.

Wonder if this is someone's alt.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

toblerone said:


> So is this dude just a troll or what? This hits pretty good on a lot of stuff that would drive people on TAM batty.
> 
> Wonder if this is someone's alt.



I find myself wondering if a lot of the threads on here are "real". Especially when it's a new poster that seem to know all the short cut phrases that took me a minute to figure out.....SAHM, WW, WS, 2x4, 180, etc. 

Either they have been lurking/reading for a long time before posting....or they're regular posters with new IDs. This happens on the net a lot IMO....*shrugs*


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

OP sounds like a piece of ****. I hope he's a troll.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

I guess sometimes you just have to unroll that piece of string to find out how long it is...


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

OP - you have to come to grips that is a 50/50 split.

So- no more free sex at your spouses expense.
That is some expensive tail you have been banging.

Hope it was worth it!


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Infidelity is a type of sexual assault and can cause betrayal trauma, which has many of the same symptoms that someone who has been raped can have.
https://www.onsiteworkshops.com/programs/milestones-at-onsite/infidelity-betrayal-trauma/


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You may or may not be able to get your wife to take you back, but if you don't have a serious heart change it won't happen. You are seeing this all wrong. Your current attitude isn't at all about what is good for your wife or your family. It's all about you. Until or unless that changes, your wife would be better off without you.

If you want help to change your thinking and be an honorable man, there are people who will help you. But as it stands what you have written is dishonorable and abusive towards your wife.


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## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

Loveless17; You wouldn't have needed the extra friendship if you felt complete in your marriage.[/QUOTE said:


> Nice- blame shift much there?
> 
> Yep- all the sexless, loveless spouse fault.
> 
> ...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've had a long-term affair, the recent stages of which are chronicled in what you euphemistically call a 'secondary phone.' For a very long time you have cheated and lied and now you have a wife with a broken heart. You have broken her heart.

This cannot be manipulated or downplayed. You can't 'explain' in just the right way so that she 'understands' that it's not as bad as she thinks. It really is as bad as she thinks. You love two women, which you say 'happens to people,' but you really can't do that if you've taken marriage vows. You don't get to do that. Your BW knows that and she now has to decide how to deal with the way you have disrespected her and cheated and lied all these years.

You want us to advise you on what to do to get her to come back to you. There are well-worn strategies for trying to reconcile a marriage after infidelity. You would have to be willing to commit to those strategies and your BW would have to agree to let you work on this with her.

The very first thing a cheater must do to work toward reconciliation is to establish NO CONTACT (NC) with the affair partner. This means that you must dump your OW immediately and forever. Send a No Contact Letter to her and block her on all of your electronics. Never talk to her again.

Given what you have written here, I have a feeling that you will have some excuse for not going NC with her. And if you can't do that, you can't ever be a safe partner to your BW.

If you can commit to complete NC, come back and tell us and we will tell you the next steps.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VibrantWings said:


> I find myself wondering if a lot of the threads on here are "real". Especially when it's a new poster that seem to know all the short cut phrases that took me a minute to figure out.....SAHM, WW, WS, 2x4, 180, etc.
> 
> Either they have been lurking/reading for a long time before posting....or they're regular posters with new IDs. This happens on the net a lot IMO....*shrugs*


The problem is:

Humans only have so much empathy to share.
After reading sad stories..... say, two in a row...

The third story gets short shrift.

Fellow women TAM readers have run out of tears. Run out of verbs..kind words.
The men have no more waddle to twaddle.... forth.

But let's face it. That is why most are here....Hear?

Just Sayin'
..........................................................................

Winter is moving in on me.
My mind, my dusty, ghostly body is drifting..

Away? 
For sure.
To where?

Likely, where Trolls and hard hearts, selfish hearts cannot raise their head, cannot flourish.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

dest said:


> *I wasn't sleeping with the other woman everyday for 16 years. We went months and sometimes over a year without any communication.* I stopped many times, so don't say I couldn't stop again. I didn't go searching for another woman to penetrate, she re-started the communication after a decade of silence, and it was not about sex for years. *She was just a friend who I enjoyed catching up with. She re-connected with me at a time when I was very stressed and it was simply perfect timing. *Stress has always been a trigger to go back to her, even 16 years later. When my marriage and wife changed, yes I developed feelings for another woman, that's only natural. I have not been cheating on my wife for 16 years, that's ridiculous.* The last two years, yeah, ok, fine, but not the last 16. Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair.
> *


Dest,

Who are you trying to convince? Yourself, Your Wife, Us?

Your last statement..._"Cheating on occasion does not equal a 16 year affair."_

Just a heads up... In your situation, Yes it does. You discount the affair involvement by saying it was occasional, _"We went went months, sometimes a year without communication"_ New flash, it was always there in the background. The lies and deceit colored the relationship and feeling you had/showed for your wife.

My WW said the same thing. "I wasn't like I was seeing him every week." They would go months without even speaking or texting. Then one little... "Hey, how you doing, I was thinking about you." and they were off and running to the Motel-No-Tell. That's the way LT affairs evolve. They don't need constant "maintenance" because the are not real life, with Kids, Bills, House Issue, Parents to deal with... etc. They evolve in to an escape of 100% selfish desire with no regard for the unknowing BS. 

Face the facts, you have been cheating on your Wife for the entirety of your marriage. That's the way see will perceive it and very rightly so.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

There is a very long back story about me having to give up the college scholarship I worked so hard to get and the career of my dreams to take care of my wife who became disabled the night of our honeymoon and confined to bed rest for over a year. 

Yet, the reason I cheated was that the girl I had the one night stand with was a model in town for a photoshoot. She turned the heads of both men and women when she walked by and she choose me to take care of her sexual needs that night. 

My wife's reaction was very different than most. All she said was don't do it again. However my wife knew I was poly before we married. My ex girlfriend and I were in a poly relationship and my wife had heard about me and saw my picture years before we met. That one incident started us on a path to find another women to join us in bed and our lives. After going through all the girls my wife knew who thought I was hot, we settled in with her best friend, whom I knew even longer than she did, to form a poly triad that lasted 30 years. 

A lot rides on how your wife feels about sexual fidelity and the good possibility that you will do it again. If she cannot live with the thought of what you did and the worry of what you might do, you are in for a bumpy ride. We are all taught that sex outside of marriage is the gravest sin. Your spouse can abuse you emotionally, and not fulfill even your minimum needs, but should they cheat, it is grounds for divorce legally and emotionally. Not all men have a wife like mine whose love transcends non monogamy. Our marriage was never built on a foundation of monogamy. If it works it can be wonderful but after looking at the 50% fail rate of currently structured marriages, we thought is crazy to buck those odds. Trying to defend our current structure of marriage is like a car salesman defending their cars by saying that although half of them will not work after a year, the ones that do are really good. No test drives allowed if you are religious 
For your reading pleasure:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/once-a-cheater-always-a-cheater-marriage-therapists-weigh-in_us_57e9a7e3e4b0c2407cd8d729

Rethinking monogamy today - CNN

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/all-about-sex/201310/the-curious-couples-guide-occasional-non-monogamy


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> There is a very long back story about me having to give up the college scholarship I worked so hard to get and the career of my dreams to take care of my wife who became disabled the night of our honeymoon and confined to bed rest for over a year.
> 
> Yet, the reason I cheated was that the girl I had the one night stand with was a model in town for a photoshoot. She turned the heads of both men and women when she walked by and she choose me to take care of her sexual needs that night.
> 
> ...



Our love for each other means that we have boundaries and are faithful. Boundaries in marriage are very healthy and important. Sex outside marriage IS serious. 
Poly =being unfaithful and committing adultery.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

dest said:


> Yes I know it's her choice if she wants to stay married to me or not but I need to help her get there to make the decision. She can't make a decision if she doesn't know the whole story. That is like someone being charged with a crime and getting the death penalty without the jury even listening to their side and just looking at a fraction of the evidence.



What IS the full story though? Because what you have written so far is not very encouraging and if I was your wife I would leave (on the basis of what you have written here. You seem to be under a couple of delusions).
You screwed up. It doesn’t matter who it was with: I think it’s worse than an ONS with a stranger as well. We may have the ability to love more than one person but we make a choice to commit ourselves to one person. You don’t have that commitment and your wife deserves better.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Vinnydee said:


> There is a very long back story about me having to give up the college scholarship I worked so hard to get and the career of my dreams to take care of my wife who became disabled the night of our honeymoon and confined to bed rest for over a year.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



not everyone lives in heaven with 72 (bi-curious) ‘virgins’ 
Somehow I doubt his (or most, in fact) wife is into that...


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

This thread should be shown to every head in the sand BS as an example of what their cheating hoar of a spouse is really thinking.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Jus260 said:


> This thread should be shown to every head in the sand BS as an example of what their cheating ***** of a spouse is really thinking.


Yes, 99% are sorry they got caught and their game is up.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Okay I'm sort of dumb when it comes to narcissistic excuse making. Let me dumb it down into words I can understand. You are saying since it stopped, you took breaks and it happened over a long period of time it isn't a long term affair? I want to make sure I get this correct. So, I'll be hitting twenty years. So, as long as I stopped talking to an old high school girlfriend in between kissing and sex acts it isn't like a 16 year long affair?

Please, do explain how this works like I am stupid. Seriously, because there is some strange rationalization when everything you have stated, all of your actions and the FACT this is someone you KNEW before you were married makes this a long term affair. That or you are writing a fictional book or movie. 

Oh and your jury trial is a bogus analogy. If I see you with the bloody knife, a written confession,texts and your own admission to prove it was you, I do not need to see or hear the rest of the story.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Okay I'm sort of dumb when it comes to narcissistic excuse making. Let me dumb it down into words I can understand. You are saying since it stopped, you took breaks and it happened over a long period of time it isn't a long term affair? I want to make sure I get this correct. So, I'll be hitting twenty years. So, as long as I stopped talking to an old high school girlfriend in between kissing and sex acts it isn't like a 16 year long affair?
> 
> Please, do explain how this works like I am stupid. Seriously, because there is some strange rationalization when everything you have stated, all of your actions and the FACT this is someone you KNEW before you were married makes this a long term affair. That or you are writing a fictional book or movie.
> 
> Oh and your jury trial is a bogus analogy. If I see you with the bloody knife, a written confession,texts and your own admission to prove it was you, I do not need to see or hear the rest of the story.


 @phillybeffandswiss, You need to use common core math for it to work.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Jus260 said:


> This thread should be shown to every head in the sand BS as an example of what their cheating ***** of a spouse is really thinking.





Diana7 said:


> Yes, 99% are sorry they got caught and their game is up.


At DD my WW, I can only assume, had stored up all these explanations/rationalizations for her LT affairs if she ever got caught. Oh yeah, I suspected for many years and tried to get the truth many times, took me damn near 7 years to have iron clad proof. 

When the there was no more denying, her explanations were as crazy as the OP here. Like Jus260 said... every head in the sand BS should understand the what their cheating spouse is really thinking.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

dest said:


> She is someone from my past. It's not like I went and found a 20 year old to make my play toy. I didn't go and live a separate life with another hidden family. I am friends with a woman I have known a good portion of my life and on occasion things progressed. I do love her. And I love my wife. You can love more than one person, people do it everyday with their families and children.
> 
> I didn't plan on letting this info come out to my wife. She didn't need to know. She was happy. We were happy. Spouses do all sorts of things for themselves to keep them a good parent and partner. Because she found out on her own, through snooping, she has a different idea of the story. I made a mistake that let her discover it, that's my fault. I should have been more careful for her. But she doesn't know the full story and is filling in the gaps herself. She won't answer my calls, I don't know where she is, her parents haven't seen her, her friends won't answer me. Our oldest won't answer his phone and I can't track it. I need her to come home and talk to me about it. We can fix it.


You are justifying your affair which you carried on for your entire marriage.

If I were to speak with your wife, I would tell her to divorce you, because although you say with your words that you love her, your actions (and mental justifications) do not show love.

People who love someone don't have coffee, kiss, have sex, etc. with someone other than their spouse, keep it a secret and carry on like this for years.

You only want your wife back because you want your cake an eat it too. Had you not gotten caught, you would have kept lying to your wife, and kept having your affairs.

Your wife is very hurt, and may never forgive you, much less ever trust you. If she decides to reconcile with you, do her the favor of stopping your affair and going no contact with your affair partner until the day you or your wife dies. Show remorse, open up your phone, computer, etc. and never again keep a secret from her.

And get counseling. Any man who can do what you did has character issues, and some serious compartmentalization problems.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Our love for each other means that we have boundaries and are faithful. Boundaries in marriage are very healthy and important. Sex outside marriage IS serious.
> Poly =being unfaithful and committing adultery.


Wait what? Sex outside marriage is serious? Like, if you aren’t married? No, it’s fun and recommended!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Wait what? Sex outside marriage is serious? Like, if you aren’t married? No, it’s fun and recommended!


Talking about if you are married here. 

If you aren't married then in my opinion its FAR more fun if you want till marriage. Nothing better than sex with a person who you are 100% committed to and faithful to. Its so special.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, so what actions are you going to take after reading the opinions and advise here?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Talking about if you are married here.
> 
> 
> 
> If you aren't married then in my opinion its FAR more fun if you want till marriage. Nothing better than sex with a person who you are 100% committed to and faithful to. Its so special.




But what if you only find out after the wedding that her vagina is not very suitable for his penis? It’s painful, icky or just generally kind of wrong?
Why not rehearse before marriage to make sure everything is in working order?


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

dest said:


> What do I do to salvage my marriage?


OP,
The opposite of what you did to destroy it. I am doubtful as to whether this is within your realm of capability. One issue you seem to struggle with is how you define "love". You cannot "love" someone and hurt them, repeatedly. You cannot "love" someone and expose them to peril, repeatedly. You cannot not "love" someone and them not be foremost in your thoughts. You claim to have "feelings" for both women and that I find plausible since "feelings" is such a vague generality. One can feel many things for another including lust.

If you truly wish to save your marriage then you must fundamentally alter your character. Empathy is an integral component in "love" and you seem to be lacking it almost completely. However, based on your posts I do believe that you are indeed madly in love with one person, yourself. Now yourself is experiencing some pain, in the form of your W and children being gone and, most probably, the thoughts of losing your "situation" and it would seem you do not like the feeling. It is a natural consequence of your behavior for decades.

Perhaps it would be prudent to allow your W to find someone who shares her beliefs and values and for you to go be with the OW since she apparently shares your feelings as she is tolerant of you still being with your W and her simultaneously. She seems to be a better candidate for a LTR given your "feelings".

As to saving this relationship, I see very little to salvage from your W's perspective considering your current mindset. However, if you feel intent on doing so then you must make the relationship valuable to your W, currently it is of little value. As I said you must fundamentally alter your character in such a way that your W will perceive your sincerity and your steadfastness at making this marriage viable. Sadly, I do not think this possible due to your limitations. I do however wish you good fortune if you attempt to do so.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> But what if you only find out after the wedding that her vagina is not very suitable for his penis? It’s painful, icky or just generally kind of wrong?
> Why not rehearse before marriage to make sure everything is in working order?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The vagina is designed to accommodate all sizes.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Unless you are prepared to never see the OW again, and to spend the next few years being repentant and being completely open about where you are and who you are with, don't even bother. 

I admire her for making such a strong decision as to leave so quickly. So many are not strong enough to do that. 

The OW clearly has as low morals as you, you suit each other. Your wife and children deserve so much more than the appalling way you have treated them.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Talking about if you are married here.
> 
> If you aren't married then in my opinion its FAR more fun if you want till marriage. Nothing better than sex with a person who you are 100% committed to and faithful to. Its so special.


You can be 100% committed and faithful to someone you are not married to


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Herschel said:


> You can be 100% committed and faithful to someone you are not married to



Living together isn't being fully committed to each other.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> The vagina is designed to accommodate all sizes.



Not according to some threads around here...
But point was more about ‘sexual chemistry’.
How do you know unless you try?
It’s just like wine tasting 


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Living together isn't being fully committed to each other.


Lol, who said anything about living together. You can be just as committed to someone married or not. In fact, it’s possible to be more committed than someone else who is married. It’s a fact jack


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Living together isn't being fully committed to each other.


Marriage doesn't prove nor guarantee being fully committed to each other.

If marriage was evidence of full commitment, marital infidelity would not ever exist.

Likewise any person who has ever chosen to get a divorce which includes you and me. Prove through their actions, that marriage isn't about being fully committed for them either.


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

OP is missing in action ....


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Not according to some threads around here...
> But point was more about ‘sexual chemistry’.
> How do you know unless you try?
> It’s just like wine tasting
> ...


You communicate before hand. I knew we had that physical chemistry very soon after we met, long before we married and had sex.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Personal said:


> Marriage doesn't prove nor guarantee being fully committed to each other.
> 
> If marriage was evidence of full commitment, marital infidelity would not ever exist.
> 
> Likewise any person who has ever chosen to get a divorce which includes you and me. Prove through their actions, that marriage isn't about being fully committed for them either.




Far far more people who live together break than those who are marred. For us marriage is non negotiable.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> You communicate before hand. I knew we had that physical chemistry very soon after we met, long before we married and had sex.




Isn’t it much more likely to rush to get married for sex?
There are statistics about it...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

inmyprime said:


> Isn’t it much more likely to rush to get married for sex?
> There are statistics about it...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I knew that I wanted to marry him after less than a week, so for me it would never have been a rush.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Far far more people who live together break than those who are marred. For us marriage is non negotiable.


Um, data to back that up?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Herschel said:


> Um, data to back that up?


This one for starters. 
Cohabiting couples twice as likely to part as married partners | Daily Mail Online


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Dest, dude, one cheater to another. I did not expect my wife to find out either. I wanted to protect her and myself from my extracurricular activities. Now, what I get from your postings is that you are not understanding her reaction, even though it is both warranted and expected. Please read and re read EleGirl's post on page 4. Let me tell you that mine was a short affair, no more than 3 weeks. It took me that amount of time to realize that what I was doing was dead WRONG. I was throwing away the best things that happened to me. Yes, my wife's reaction was extreme, and we went through months of hell afterward. We literally remade our marriage. We courted and dated all over again. If you want a minor piece of advice, if you want this marriage, then get to work.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

inmyprime said:


> But what if you only find out after the wedding that her vagina is not very suitable for his penis? It’s painful, icky or just generally kind of wrong?
> Why not rehearse before marriage to *make sure everything is in working order?*.....


Adults are suppose to be self-aware enough to see a doctor if they suspect something is not in working order. Similarly, smart adults go in for periodic check-ups to have their doctor look them over to see if things are in "working order."

My assumption is that when confronted with this reality, you meant to say the there was sexual chemistry and comparability of desires.

In some circles, pre-marriage counseling and/or long discussions help to people prior to marriage figure out the sexual and emotional chemistry. A couple hundred or more years ago, bundling boards and talking all night long with a prospective spouse were done, instead.


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## KaggyBear (Jan 16, 2017)

dest said:


> She is someone from my past. It's not like I went and found a 20 year old to make my play toy. I didn't go and live a separate life with another hidden family. I am friends with a woman I have known a good portion of my life and on occasion things progressed. I do love her. And I love my wife. You can love more than one person, people do it everyday with their families and children.
> 
> I didn't plan on letting this info come out to my wife. She didn't need to know. She was happy. We were happy. Spouses do all sorts of things for themselves to keep them a good parent and partner. Because she found out on her own, through snooping


How dare you blame her. She obviously had a sense of your vile deceit and thought she should snoop. Good thing she did and now she knows what kind of person you are.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

In my best SunCMars voice.

Dest is dust .......... in the wind.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep, this guy left TAM days ago. I'm closing the thread.


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