# Was What I Did Really That Bad?



## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

Some of you are probably familiar with my wife’s story @heartbroken50, I suppose that would make me the POSWH in question. Let me just give you a little background, my wife and I have known each other for 25 years and married for 20. Until recently, it has been a strong marriage. We have 3 boys ages 17, 14 and 11, who all have immune issues since birth and I was diagnosed almost 2 years ago now with Stage 4 Colon Cancer. Suffice it to say, my W has been the caregiver for the four of us for almost 2 years, and before that it was both of us but still mostly her, she’s needed to be the rock of the family. 

At this point, you all probably know how I’ve been a POSWH, but for those of you who don’t well here it goes, I have been given a gift by my W in order to heal and recover emotionally from my cancer diagnosis and surgeries and been given a lot of time on my hands to recover. She has a business that help with and takes place in the in-law apartment we converted into my W’s studio. During the week my W spends lots of time handling the admin work for the business and me with my extra added time on my hands am looking for something to do during my down time. 

At this point, I found a game to play online called Yahtzee, many of you have probably played the game online or maybe the traditional board game, I liked to play online. Unfortunately, this has led to my downfall, I was able to chat with the person I was playing with and chat I did. At first, I was playing with random people not really interested in chatting but as time went on I would say nice game or something along those lines. Then one night I was playing this girl (I think or it could have been Bubba?) and she said something that caught me funny, I asked her where she was from, she said she was from Wyoming, and I think I asked her what she does for fun in Wyoming, at this point just making conversation, and she said something like read , go to the movies with friends, dinner with friends and f*ck!!!! At this I had to write excuse me? and she wrote it again. So I made a joke and said what does this consist of? At this point, I should have said goodbye, but I didn’t, I was curious about what she would say. I was laying on the couch not doing much and I thought or justified to myself what or who is this going to hurt? So her description of what it would consist of opened up a dialogue for about six months of very loose talk and game play. Between us there really wasn’t much in the way of other dialogue. I felt she was all the way in Wyoming and I wasn’t looking for any type of relationship from this OW, just texting of a sexual nature, that’s all I was really looking for.

Then one morning a month ago, after some morning sex with my W, the alarms started to go off on my phone and my wife asked me for my phone to shut off the alarms so I handed the phone to her not knowing the Yahtzee app was open to the chat page for all the world to see especially my W, who proceeded to quote some of the verbiage between us for which I looked at as meaningless banter and for my W to look at as the desecration of 25 years together and 20 years of marriage. I consider my wife best friend, my soul mate, my lover and partner in crime. I no longer have contact with this OW and have no desire to, I never felt any kind of deep emotional attraction to this OW and somehow now I’ve changed my relationship with my W forever. 

What I’m struggling with now is that my W is not making it easy for me to fix what I did. I don’t think what I did was that bad. She made me tell my sister, our clergy, and W told 2 friends and my FIL. Isn’t that enough of a penance? She kicked me out of my bed... our dog has better accommodations! We are in MC, and I’m trying to do everything she asks, I even wrote her an apology letter that my therapist assigned. And every day she reminds me because of how crappy she feels that this isn’t over. How can I get her to forgive me? I’m not good at reading hints, but is what I did really all that bad? I know my W is concerned that when the dust settles I may do this again, but I have no desire to do that, because I’ve seen how much it hurt my W and the image of horror on her face when she discovered me is ingrained on my brain forever. I do regret what I did, but she doesn’t believe me. I think I understand where W is coming from but she doesn’t feel that I’m getting it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

To answer the question in the title, Yes.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Minimization: one of THE hallmarks of a remorseless wayward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, you thought "who is this going to hurt" and your wife's name never popped into your mind?

I tell you what. My cousin lost his wife two years ago and is lonely. How about I give him your wife's e-mail address and they can sext all day and night. He'll get his, your wife will get hers and nobody gets hurt, right? Of course, you'll have to relinquish the couch to your wife.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrHB50 said:


> Some of you are probably familiar with my wife’s story @heartbroken50, I suppose that would make me the POSWH in question. Let me just give you a little background, my wife and I have known each other for 25 years and married for 20. Until recently, it has been a strong marriage. We have 3 boys ages 17, 14 and 11, who all have immune issues since birth and I was diagnosed almost 2 years ago now with Stage 4 Colon Cancer. Suffice it to say, my W has been the caregiver for the four of us for almost 2 years, and before that it was both of us but still mostly her, she’s needed to be the rock of the family.
> 
> At this point, you all probably know how I’ve been a POSWH, but for those of you who don’t well here it goes, I have been given a gift by my W in order to heal and recover emotionally from my cancer diagnosis and surgeries and been given a lot of time on my hands to recover. She has a business that help with and takes place in the in-law apartment we converted into my W’s studio. During the week my W spends lots of time handling the admin work for the business and me with my extra added time on my hands am looking for something to do during my down time.
> 
> ...


Thank you for being brave enough to come here.

Can I, please, just be allowed to show you bad what you did really was?

It was this bad.


Not this bad 


*but it was bad enough.*

You broke her heart. You took all the love she gave you and you said: "No, thanks. I think I will share my love with some woman in Wyoming."

That's what you did wrong.

And people know what wrong you did?

Oh! Oh dear. But wait! If there was nothing wrong in what you did, if it was just a little bit of harmless fun, why would you be bothered who knew about it?

Unless you knew all along that you were doing wrong?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My bet is that a large part of your wife's issue here is that you do not seem to get how wrong it was.

Did you actually sext with that woman our only talk a lot of dirty talk with her?


How would you feel about it if your wife spent the same amount of time one line with another man doing what you did?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So you'd be completely fine with your "soul mate" getting some sexual jollies with some Internet dude?

If that's how you feel then you must not have much of a bond with her.

That's she she doesn't forgive you.....because in your view the marital bond means so little that getting sexual jollies from strangers is no big deal. 

It's sad that your bond with your wife is so weak. People with real bonds don't want to share, unless you've negotiated an agreement. Which you hadn't because you hid it and lied about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Does your conscience bother you At all for what you did to your wife? I


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrHB50 said:


> Until recently, it has been a strong marriage. We have 3 boys ages 17, 14 and 11, who all have immune issues since birth and I was diagnosed almost 2 years ago now with Stage 4 Colon Cancer. Suffice it to say, my W has been the caregiver for the four of us for almost 2 years, and before that it was both of us but still mostly her, she’s needed to be the rock of the family.
> 
> At this point, you all probably know how I’ve been a POSWH, but for those of you who don’t well here it goes, I have been given a gift by my W in order to heal and recover emotionally from my cancer diagnosis and surgeries and been given a lot of time on my hands to recover.


So your wife 'gave you a gift' to HEAL and to RECOVER from your illness?

No.

She gave you a 'gift' to give you a second chance after forsaking your vows. YOU CHEATED. You destroyed her TRUST.

You HURT HER TO THE CORE. You humiliated her. You made her feel insignificant. Replaceable. Unloved. Unlovable.

THAT is what she 'gave you a gift' for. To FIX the DAMAGE you caused. The HURT you caused.

What have you done so far to help HER heal?

ETA: Before you go 'there,' my H has never cheated on me, despite TONS of opportunities to do so. So I am not a bitter spouse. I come here to help people SAVE their marriages. But I've been doing this for 15+ years and I'm here to tell you, if YOU don't come to your wife with open humility and admittance of how you HURT her, she WILL leave you. Not because she doesn't love you. It's obvious she does. 

She will leave you because YOU won't come to the table with utter humility and honesty and true CARING about HER feelings. And she will eventually have no choice but to leave you to save her soul.

You sound like a whiny, entitled baby. Tell me why she should stay married to you at this stage?


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

MrHB50 said:


> What I’m struggling with now is that my W is not making it easy for me to fix what I did. I don’t think what I did was that bad. She made me tell my sister, our clergy, and W told 2 friends and my FIL. Isn’t that enough of a penance? She kicked me out of my bed...* our dog has better accommodations!* We are in MC, and I’m trying to do everything she asks, I even wrote her an apology letter that my therapist assigned. And every day she reminds me because of how crappy she feels that this isn’t over. How can I get her to forgive me? I’m not good at reading hints, but is what I did really all that bad? I know my W is concerned that when the dust settles I may do this again, but I have no desire to do that, because I’ve seen how much it hurt my W and the image of horror on her face when she discovered me is ingrained on my brain forever. I do regret what I did, but she doesn’t believe me. I think I understand where W is coming from but she doesn’t feel that I’m getting it.


1. boo hoo for you. If you're embarrassed to tell people, you probably shouldn't have done it.
2. it's over when you're truly sorry you did it. right now, you're not.
3. re: the dog's accommodations - the dog has treated her better than you. The dog may have **** on the floor, but you **** on her soul, and your marriage.

P.S. - I'll give you full credit for coming here. It takes some guts.


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

It was sexting I'm not sure what you call it. I would be pissed if my wife was doing what I did, but I think i would get over it sooner and I would say next time honey we are done, 2 strikes your out. 

Our bond is actually quite strong, that's I believe she'll eventually let this go but for now I can understand she's hurting. 

Yes I have a conscience, while I was doing this I suppressed that I was doing anything wrong, but my wife's reaction to it really opened my eyes and scared me that I might lose her!

I am helping her heal, giving her the space she needs to deal with what happened, and I am here on line to figure out what else I can do to help her heal. I am helping more around the house, I bought her flowers, I've read 3 books she asked me to and talking about it in MC

I am truly sorry for what I did and not intend to ****on her soul And the dog is definitely getting a better night sleep than me 
!!!!!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"What I’m struggling with now is that my W is not making it easy for me to fix what I did."

Have you done the reading she has requested? If not, then you aren't really trying to fix what you did. What have you been doing to try to get her to forgive you? Here is a hint: you can not screw your way back into her heart.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrHB50 said:


> I am helping her heal, giving her the space she needs to deal with what happened, and I am here on line to figure out what else I can do to help her heal. I am helping more around the house, I bought her flowers, I've read 3 books she asked me to and talking about it in MC


You're serious? 

You follow her up the stairs, in hopes that she'll let you screw her. That is NOT giving her the space she needs.

Picking up your trash is payback for what you did?

Reading books (and not changing your belief system) is growth?

Wow.



> It was sexting I'm not sure what you call it.


In real life? We call it CHEATING ON YOUR WIFE.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

You gave time, effort and attention that belonged to her and only her (your wife) to someone else without regard for how that may have affected her.

Your actions tore a piece of the core of her apart and she will never, NEVER get that back. She will never 100% trust you again regardless of what may come out of her mouth to the contrary.

A scar will form where you tore that chunk of her core out but it's not the piece that was there, it will never be that piece again.

That's what you don't understand and until you do it will never be "all that bad" what you did.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Well, I agree that what you did was wrong, but in my personal opinion it's not as bad as an EA or PA. It's basically like a continuing Harlequin Romance story. If no pictures were exchanged and no words of affection, it kind of ranks up there with porn or paying a cam girl. It's interactive but it's fantasy only. 

Did you discuss your marriage or your wife at all? Did you put her down? Did you masturbate to any of this? 

I'm not downplaying this and would be upset if my wife did that, but I wouldn't call it an affair so much as fantasy role playing of an adult nature.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi @MrHB50, 

First, I'm glad you had the courage to post here. I'm going to warn you that a lot of the other people who post here on TAM are spouses who were betrayed (like your wife) and the pain they feel is IMMENSE. So it is 100% likely that you're going to get some folks giving you a 2x4 to the head for even asking the question, because they are projecting their own pain onto the post! Don't discount the posts, but do brace yourself for incoming! 

Second, I'm writing to you as a former Disloyal Spouse myself. That is to say, I had an online affair with someone very similar to yours--it was via a game and we did not meet in person and have physical sex. But we did have very sexual chats--I would call it virtual sex--and I did lie to my spouse to cover it up. So here's the thing, @MrHB50... you made a vow to @heartbroken50. Your promise was that YOU would treat her in a loving way for the rest of your life. Your vow didn't say "...I'll be loving as long as I'm healthy..." or "...I'll meet her needs if she meets my needs..." NOPE. The vow was that you would ACT in love toward her in all the various circumstances that life throws at you, AND that you would FORSAKE ALL OTHERS. 

All these years she has been your companion, your lover, the mother of your children. She has acted in love toward you and toward your children, and in very trying health issues, she has not gotten lazy or walked away. She thought you were the quality of man who would honor your promise to her. She trusted you to resist temptation because she has given you years of her life, her heart and her body. The idea was that you promised HER...and both legally and morally you owed her all of your affection, loyalty, and companionship!! You had an obligation!!

Now you come here to this site and say: "Well, she may have acted lovingly toward me, given me a varied and spicy sex life, and offered me our children, but I'm going to give away to some woman who doesn't mean all that much to me what is exclusively HERS. Is that really all that bad?" 
@MrHB50, by gradually crossing one little line in the sand, then another, then another and justifying each little crossing, it may have felt good to you to escape the gravity of real life (with sick kids, bills and a fatal illness yourself). I totally get this. It probably felt like "it just happened" because it's not like you woke up one morning and said "Oh I think I'll commit adultery today." 

But make no mistake. You did commit ADULTERY. Say it will me: "ADULTERY." That's because adultery is not just putting your Pen!s into some strange vajayjay. Sex doesn't "make" a marriage and sex doesn't "break" a marriage! Adultery is when you BETRAY YOUR PROMISE. Your promise was to act in love and forsake all others--you acted in selfish interest and turned toward another. 

See, the more you dance around and pretend it wasn't all that bad and call it euphemisms, the more damage you do and the less likely you are to grow as a man AND the less likely you are to reconcile your marriage. Don't believe me? I have a great idea: print out the sex chats (if they weren't all that bad) and let your sister, your rabbi and everyone read them. What? You don't want people to see? Why not? It's "not that bad", right? LOL If you want to hide something, keep it a secret, and not share it with the people who are closest with you, then somewhere inside you KNOW it's wrong. and honestly I believe in you. I believe you have a moral compass, or you wouldn't be trying to hard to still be a good guy in other people's eyes. 

Right now, YOUR ACTIONS of illicitly sexting with another woman have dropped a nuclear bomb on the marriage you used to have. You have blown your world to smithereens. The usual appropriate response to adultery is divorce, so that means that right now, based on your actions, what you DESERVE is to lose your home, your wife, half the time with your children, half the money--EVERYTHING. That is what is your just reward. If you do not receive that justice, then anything else is a PURE, UNADULTERATED, GIFT. And it's my understanding your wife is willing to offer you that gift if only you would stop defending what you've done, admit it was wrong, and look into yourself and try to figure out what character flaw you have that allowed you to betray her. 

And @MrHB50, I'm not judging you. I had a character flaw too. I fell too. The difference between us is that I admitted I was wrong, stopped trying to defend the wrong, realized I had to start over from scratch and rebuild trust, accepted I would have to eat some crow and allow myself and my life to be an open book to my spouse, and I GREW. I changed!! I had had a miscarriage followed shortly by learning I could no longer have children, and I plummeted. Hey I'm human. I didn't cope well! And I made choices that were an attempt to feel alive and not like a dried up old prune, and instead I destroyed my marriage. 

But rather than looking at the rubble and telling my hubby "Oh that rubble isnt' so bad. It was just an atom bomb, not a nuke" I looked around at the destruction I'd caused and sat down and cried. I did it. It was me and not him. And then I started with "not doing that any more." As I understand it, you have also completely deleted all contact with the Other Woman (OW) and deleted the game app, so that's a good start. But next, I began to rebuild by ALLOWING my Dear Hubby into my life. He didn't have to snoop on me because I opened up my phone, my computer, my email, EVERYTHING to him and he could see it as I was doing it. I literally envisioned "If I don't want this printed on the front page of the newspaper for all to see, I shouldn't be writing it!" He can (and does) read all my posts here on TAM, as well as all my emails and my computer history etc. any time he wants. The difference is this: he doesn't have to "snoop" and say he's invading my privacy BECAUSE I DON'T HIDE THINGS FROM HIM. That's not "privacy"---hiding is SECRECY. 

Well, as you can tell I have a lot to say, but let's end there. There's a lot of work to be done, but I have faith in you. Let's start with first things first. Admit what you've done is wrong.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TX-SC said:


> Well, I agree that what you did was wrong, but in my personal opinion it's not as bad as an EA or PA. It's basically like a continuing Harlequin Romance story. If no pictures were exchanged and no words of affection, it kind of ranks up there with porn or paying a cam girl. It's interactive but it's fantasy only.
> 
> Did you discuss your marriage or your wife at all? Did you put her down? Did you masturbate to any of this?
> 
> I'm not downplaying this and would be upset if my wife did that, but I wouldn't call it an affair so much as fantasy role playing of an adult nature.


Mr HB. Please understand. We aren't trashing you for what you did.

We are trying to get you to understand WHAT YOU DID TO YOUR WIFE.

This isn't about you or your previous actions. It's about what YOU are doing for HER. Now. 

Which is...?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

If you don't think that it was so bad, why did you hide it from your wife? 

Did you really do everything she asked you to do? Read the books?

Skip the words to your wife. You are being judged by your actions. Focus on what you are doing, not what you should say to her next.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Just curious. Did you tell the Wyoming woman your real name? Do you know her real name?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*You are considered to be one-half of a marriage team, and you screwed it all up royally by minimization and gross deception!

If you're ever going to heal this serious breach of trust, it will have to solely be done on her terms and certainly not yours!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

@Blondilocks - Yes I did read the 3 books that she asked me to.

How to help your spouse heal from your affair

Love Busters

His Needs Her Needs

the last one took me a while to get past the intro, but have finished it now.

I have not done the worksheets portion yet.

Yes I know I can't screw my way back to her heart. I tried (she's impenetrable)


@Personal - that's why I'm here. trying to understand.


@turnera - I'm trying to get clarity about what I did by reading the books and coming here. Based on the feedback I've seen so far, I really need to take a look at my belief system. I still have a hard time seeing what I did as cheating because I never met her in person and barely got to know her emotionally. It was just meaningless self gratification.


@CantePe - I agree with that assessment. At the time I didn't weigh it out or put much thought into what I was doing. If I had I may have done things different. Also usually my wife was busy working so I didn't think I was taking time away from her. All I can do is try to gain as much trust as I once had. But I don't know what I need to do to get it back.


@TX-SC - OW did not know I was married, so I never talked about my wife with her. It was sexual right from the beginning. I may have masturbated occasionally after chatting with her. Sometimes if I was in bed, we may have chatted and after I would wake my wife and we would make love.


@Affaircare - your reply truly spoke to me. Not allowing myself to accept responsibility and not allowing myself to grow as a man are words that I take to heart. Your story sounds close to mine and I can see that you have accepted it as adultery. You are giving me hope that I can recover from this as you have. I am truly grateful my wife is giving me the gift of a second chance and that she is willing to work with me through this. Since dday, I have tried to come up with different ways to be transparent. I have given my phone to my wife whenever she asks, trying to keep busy with chores around the house, reading and being more involved with the kids and dog, and trying to answer any of her concerns.


@turnera - I am trying to think about my wife more often and to do things for her more often. If I am going to the kitchen I ask if she needs anything. Whenever she asks for anything I try to take care of it for her. I'm trying to give her more space to deal with what I have done, and I'm trying to be emotionally available to her.


@blueinbr - I hid what I did because I thought she would be upset if I even asked if it was ok. In the past my wife has made it clear that even going to a strip club without her would not be ok. We have gone together but that is different since we both wanted to be there ... my wife is bi-curious so maybe I should have asked, but she never wanted to do cam-girl type things so I figured this was more like that.

I did read the books but maybe not as fast as I should have. I'm finished with them now. We just have to do the worksheets together.

My username was my real name and she used an alias but told me her real name.


@arbitrator - I know I screwed up and trust me my wife reminds me every day that she is now in charge of my free time. Which I understand and I am ok with.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrHB50 said:


> I have not done the worksheets portion yet.


Why not?



MrHB50 said:


> Yes I know I can't screw my way back to her heart. I tried (she's impenetrable)


Good. You have NO RIGHT to have sex with your wife at this point. Do you understand that?



MrHB50 said:


> that's why I'm here. trying to understand.


So what do you understand so far?



MrHB50 said:


> - I'm trying to get clarity about what I did by reading the books and coming here. Based on the feedback I've seen so far, I really need to take a look at my belief system. I still have a hard time seeing what I did as cheating because I never met her in person and barely got to know her emotionally. It was just meaningless self gratification.


So this is where we need you to focus. To YOU, it was meaningless self gratification. Do you now understand how your wife felt to learn you were jacking off to another woman? Explain.



MrHB50 said:


> - I agree with that assessment. At the time I didn't weigh it out or put much thought into what I was doing. If I had I may have done things different. Also usually my wife was busy working so I didn't think I was taking time away from her. All I can do is try to gain as much trust as I once had. But I don't know what I need to do to get it back.


So...because your wife was BUSY, and you were NOT WORKING, you felt it was ok to 'gratify' yourself? A man on my street is retired. Guess what he does? He builds furniture. He sells it to the neighbors. He CONTRIBUTES. If I knew I might die, I would spend my time figuring out how to CONTRIBUTE in a lasting way to my family, since I would forever be unable to further contribute once I died. 

What did you do? You sat on your couch. You let your wife baby you. You played video games. You let your wife run herself ragged taking care of you AND your kids, and all their therapies and school and extracurriculars AS WELL AS all the medical issues YOU needed taken care of. And you CHEATED on your wife with another woman. 

And since then, you have spent your time doing what? Trying to screw your wife. Trying to get her to forgive you. Trying to get back to what you had before.

Classy.



MrHB50 said:


> I am trying to think about my wife more often and to do things for her more often. If I am going to the kitchen I ask if she needs anything. Whenever she asks for anything I try to take care of it for her. I'm trying to give her more space to deal with what I have done, and I'm trying to be emotionally available to her.


No.

You are trying to get back WHAT YOU HAD. You follow her up the stairs hoping she'll 'forget' she's mad at you, so you can screw her. You do meaningless chores in hopes she'll forget what an ass you've been and let you back into bed. 

In other words, it is STILL all about YOU and your SEX.

Do you get it yet?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

" I hid what I did because I thought she would be upset if I even asked if it was ok. In the past my wife has made it clear that even going to a strip club without her would not be ok..." 

And you still contend that you do not believe it was cheating. 

Say you give a kid $1/week for allowance. Kid knows not to ask for more. Kid goes into your wallet and takes a dollar without telling you. You ask the kid why he thought stealing from you was ok. Kid says I knew you would be upset if I asked for another $1 but I wasn't stealing. He *was* stealing and you and he both know it.

Would you have been comfortable sexting this woman while your wife looked on? If not, then you *know* you were cheating and parsing the word 'is' will get you nowhere but a smaller doghouse. 

The sooner you refine your belief system or vocabulary, the sooner reconciliation can commence. The ball is in your court.

P.S. Getting all worked up by another woman and then waking your wife to have her service you is not 'making love'. It's called having sex. And a whole bunch of other things I won't mention.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

@MrHB50:

Your posts are typical of an remorseless wayward. Do you know how it is so easy to spot? Everything is still all about you.

When you are ready to see and feel her pain rather than avoid it, maybe then you will be actually ready to start a true reconciliation.

Until then, all you are doing is reinforcing to her that you are not worthy of her love.


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

@Tunera

there really isn't any excuse first I couldn't find the worksheets but I have them now and plan to work on them tomorrow! 

Quote: Good. You have NO RIGHT to have sex with your wife at this point. Do you understand that?

Yes I understand this she makes it abundantly clear. This will happen only when she is ready!

Quote: So what do you understand so far?

this is not about making sure i'm OK this is about making sure my wife is OK and making sure she knows that I love her!!!!


Quote: So this is where we need you to focus. To YOU, it was meaningless self gratification. Do you now understand how your wife felt to learn you were jacking off to another woman? Explain.

Yes the fact that I was giving any of my time to another woman at all was completely wrong.

Quote: No. You are trying to get back WHAT YOU HAD. You follow her up the stairs hoping she'll 'forget' she's mad at you, so you can screw her. You do meaningless chores in hopes she'll forget what an ass you've been and let you back into bed. In other words, it is STILL all about YOU and your SEX. Do you get it yet?

I agree i have to stop making it about me and make it more about my wife and what I've done to her. I am not just trying to get back into her bed I am currently sleeping on the couch downstairs and trying to give her the space she needs to heal from this


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrHB50,

Your wife found out about your cheating about a month ago. It takes somewhere from 2 to 5 years for a betrayed spouse to recover from an affair. Now it might take a bit less in your wife's case since there was no physical contact between you and the woman. But it's going to take a lot longer than 30 days.

You said that she has been the care giver to you and your children for some time now. On top of that she's working to earn a living. Being the primary care giver of one person is enough stress to break a person emotionally and physically. You wife has been doing that for 4 (FOUR) people for some time now. You seem to be completely unaware of the heavy load that she had been carrying for a long time.

She was busy so your cyber affair was not taking anything from her? Oh, you are soooo wrong. All that time you spent with your cyber affair partner is time that you could have spent doing your part to help your wife. 

Who was doing things like the laundry, dishes, cooking meals, sweeping, moping, vacuuming? Every that that you could have taken over from her you should have. And you should be doing now too. I have no doubt that you could have been doing things to help with your children as well.

So what are the household chores and child care things that you are now doing on a regular basis to lift as much of the load off your wife as you can?

I had an online relationship. I was single so it was not an affair. But I get how intense and how real they can feel. Because of this experience I consider cyber affairs like you had to be equalent to at least an emotional affair in real life, and they can be as intenst as a physical affair.. yes even if you never touch the other person they can be as real as in-person sex. The biggest sex organ is the brain. And boy does a cyber affair get the brain involved.

I was also married to man who did what you did. Like your wife, I ended up to be the care giver for him, his 2 children and my son. I worked full time. And what did he do? Exactly what you did. He spent his time online sexting. He did this while dumping all responsibility on me. Over time, with no help from him, I became physically and mentally exhausted.

When I found out what he was doing, his reponse was a lot like yours. He'd say to me that he was remorseful but he really did not get it. He always had these wide-eyed look on his face when we taked about it. And yea, he read those three books too. But he did not change his behavior and take responsibility for what he did. Nor did he take responsibility for being a true partner in running our home and raising the children.

In the end I divorced him because he never got it. He never changed his behavior. Never took over some of the responsility so that I could put down some of the load that I was carrying.


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

@Blondilocks - I agree with what you are saying, I can see now that it was indeed cheating, and I can see that I was taking my wife for granted. I assumed she would stick around no matter what I do, even though I knew it was wrong.
When you say it like that about the OW getting me worked up and then having sex with my wife, it sounds horrible. I really need to stop being so selfish. I didn’t mean to treat her that way.
@farsidejunky - With all of your posts I am reading, there seems to be a recurring theme that this is not about me. This is about my wife and the pain she is suffering. I can see firsthand the pain I have caused her by the way she is behaving these days. For the first week she was crying almost non-stop. She would calm down briefly and the slightest thing would trigger her again. Every time that happened my guilt grew greater. I felt helpless in knowing that I had caused her unnecessary pain. She is unable to focus on her work, our children, or me. I miss her usually carefree attitude and her smile and I feel like a total d0uchebag for making her feel so sad.
@EleGirl - 2-5 years does seem extreme to me. I understand that she may never have the same kind of trust she once had, but I hope it won’t take that long for her to forgive me. I don’t feel I am unaware of how much my wife does for my family. I admit to taking her for granted, but I do see how hard she works on her business, how she gives time to her children and taking care of all their medical needs, making sure they shower and do homework. She makes sure I get to all my medical appointments and that my medications are filled. And all of this while running her own business. I love my wife so much. She has stood by me through layoffs, a failed business, bankruptcy and foreclosure. And of course she has been right by my side with my cancer treatment and surgeries. She is unwaveringly selfless, loving, loyal to those she loves, generous, smart, funny and beautiful inside and out. I try to help as much as I can with her business so I see first hand how hard she works, and I’m proud of the way she built her business from nothing into something that now supports our family. My wife is amazing and certainly did not deserve to have me betray her trust. As I have been regaining my strength I have tried to help out around the house because I can see how overwhelmed she is and the housework is the last item on her list and sometimes goes undone. I’m trying harder, especially now to pick up the slack. I can see that I should have been doing that all along. Thank you for sharing your story. I don’t want to be like your ex because I truly love my wife and don’t want to lose her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrHB50 said:


> @EleGirl - 2-5 years does seem extreme to me. I understand that she may never have the same kind of trust she once had, but I hope it won’t take that long for her to forgive me.


A large part of that time to heal is her getting to the point where she feels that you are trust worthy. 

You will need to earn back her trust. And that can take a long time. Patience with her, and you being 100% open and honest in everything, is a large part of helping her heal.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When you eventually read your wife's thread in the Private forum, you'll find posts there that encouraged her to at least separate from you or even divorce you. Why? Because trust was broken. And there are people who just can't recover from broken trust. Marriages can end when that happens. So, yes, what you did really was that bad. 

Your wife is trying hard to rebuild your marriage. You need to accept that the old marriage is gone -- thanks to you. That's what happens when trust is broken. If you don't step up, and really work on helping her rebuild, then you are going to find yourself alone. I'm sure you don't want that -- and she certainly doesn't -- but it could happen. So, step up.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

PS

There is no quick fix for this. People heal in their own time. You are the one who broke the marriage so stop wondering why she isn't over it yet. This can be a long process -- not measured in days or weeks or, sometimes, even months. You want to rush it but that's not how it works. Always remember that she's really trying to R with you. Someone else in her place might not even try. 

She's trying because she wants to be with you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

@MrHB50

Yes it was that bad. And worse is that you did not get that. Hopefully you do now because of all the posts above.

But...It is not about her. It is about you. YOU need to change. The speed with which things will change depends on the speed with which YOU change.

You cannot do 'things' to her to make her feel different. If you change, you will do things different. That might make her believe you have changed, and then 'things' will change to you.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i actually can see the future, and am renown as a prognosticator. i see in your future....MUCH heavy lifting, maybe for years to come.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Have you done this kind of thing before?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MrHB50 said:


> What I’m struggling with now is that my W is not making it easy for me to fix what I did. I don’t think what I did was that bad. She made me tell my sister, our clergy, and W told 2 friends and my FIL. Isn’t that enough of a penance? She kicked me out of my bed... our dog has better accommodations! We are in MC, and I’m trying to do everything she asks, I even wrote her an apology letter that my therapist assigned. And every day she reminds me because of how crappy she feels that this isn’t over. How can I get her to forgive me? I’m not good at reading hints, but is what I did really all that bad? I know my W is concerned that when the dust settles I may do this again, but I have no desire to do that, because I’ve seen how much it hurt my W and the image of horror on her face when she discovered me is ingrained on my brain forever. I do regret what I did, but she doesn’t believe me. I think I understand where W is coming from but she doesn’t feel that I’m getting it.


HB50 is struggling because her H is not making it easy for her to fix what he did. 

Like you, she doesn't think that separating from you is so bad. You humiliated and devastated a devoted, intimate and kind wife. You were very foolish to throw all you had for 6 months of sexual fantasies and sharing intimate details about your wife. All the while accepting her love and devotion. 

You kicked her out of a happy marriage ... Bubba got better treatment. You two are in MC, and she is simply appealing to your sense of empathy and compassion, she even gave you easy forgiveness at first. 

Is what your wife is doing now really all that bad? She knows you miss all the goodies you got for very little effort in the past but those days are over. You squandered it. 

This is how relationships work, you may not know because you have been very fortunate to give so little and gotten so much. 

!. You get as much as you give. 

2. If your partner is in pain the person who loves them is in pain too. It does not matter that you don't think what your wife feels is a big deal. It is a big deal for one reason, their feeling are important, not your feelings. 

You think she is not justified to be upset? A man who throws away a warm loving wife and 3 children to spend 6 months talking dirty with a stranger who did nothing for him does not get easy forgiveness. You set the tone for your marriage. 

You want different? Start by giving her feelings the same regard as you want her to give yours. Work on a new relationship, you killed the old one. If you can't do that then don't whine.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

To answer your question
Yes it was that bad
You broke her trust and sometimes that can never be repaired.
I've read your wife's thread and I have to say it is nice to see the other side.
I think you just simply don't get how the act of doing this has altered your marriage.
For the life of me I don't know why people squander the gift of trust. 
From reading your story you were bored one day and decided to make your own fun with no regard to your wife.
The fact that you didn't even stop for a moment to think about her tells me you were solely thinking about yourself when you are supposed to be in a partnership.
Now you're skating over everything and seem to be doing the bare minimum for her to move on.
I think you won't get anywhere until you realize what breaking her trust means. You guys will stay in this weird limbo.

Having said all that I am not championing for her to leave you.
Sometimes throwing away a marriage and walking away just isn't feasible. There are valid reasons for her to stay..number one being that she does love you. The fact that she is trying so hard shows you that.

Once you open your eyes and see what this had done then you guys have a chance.
Good luck.


Sent from my iPhone


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Did you ever fantasize or think about having sex with Wyoming woman?


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

You say if the shoe was on the other foot, you would be upset but get over it pretty quickly. You wouldn't. Believe me. I discovered a half hours worth of flirting and my head was f--ked up for months. 

You've gotten a ton of good advise here from people who know their sh!t. Please listen. These people are genuinely concerned about you and your wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

MrHB50 said:


> It was sexting I'm not sure what you call it. I would be pissed if my wife was doing what I did, but I think i would get over it sooner and I would say next time honey we are done, 2 strikes your out.
> 
> Our bond is actually quite strong, that's I believe she'll eventually let this go but for now I can understand she's hurting.
> 
> ...


One of the reasons I have issues with your apparent attitude in your posts is that you assume that your wife will react to things in the same way you claim you would.

That is an assumption that is going to keep her pissed off at you and feeling that you aren't into healing this relationship at all.

You need to stop your assumptions based on your limited, personal viewpoints and open yourself to understanding HER side. HER hurt, and HER intolerance for what you did. You say you understand but your posts are really saying otherwise. Saying "I understand" and SHOWING her you understand are two very different things.

You say your bond is strong. Again, that's another assumption you're making. Just because YOU think it's strong, doesn't make it so. In fact, after reading your wife's posts, I bet most posters would say that her tolerance is hanging by a thread at this point. This is a mistake many spouses make that are minimizing the impact of what they have done. If you convince yourself it's no big deal, then it's no big deal TO YOU, meanwhile the person you say you care about is working to become done with your $hyt.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I will repeat my question. (It might be a time zone issue, after all...)
@MrHB50 *have you ever done anything like this before?*


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

You sought and obtained sexual gratification from someone who was not your spouse. Your wife believed you were never the kind of husband who would do that. She was wrong.
You hid your behavior. Your wife thought she could trust you.
You have told your wife you didn't think it was that big of deal. Your wife is devastated.

It absolutely was that bad.
Your solution was to try to have sex with your emotionally brutalized wife. Dude, its not about sex. Its about love and respect.
And you are complaining here she's not making it easy on you.
That is not her job.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

MrHB50 said:


> Yes I have a conscience, while I was doing this I suppressed that I was doing anything wrong, but my wife's reaction to it really opened my eyes and scared me that I might lose her!


That's not remorse and it's not having a conscience.

It's realizing the consequences YOU would pay for what you've done. That's all about what YOU stand to lose and how it affects YOU, not her.

I'll probably get skinned alive here, but after everything I've read over the last 20 years and seeing the amazingly LOW levels cheaters are willing to sink to, this really doesn't seem that 'horrible.' But I'm not the one dealing with it, your wife is. And to her, it IS that horrible. And she's the one who COUNTS, not me.

Buying her flowers isn't remorse. "Helping" around the house isn't remorse. You should be doing that *anyway*, especially since this poor woman works her fingers to the bone 24 hours a day caring for all of you while *you* spend your spare time sitting around playing stupid online games and just taking for granted tht the pack mule - your wife - will do all the work that needs to be done.

She's sick and tired of giving 110% all the time and getting nothing in return - unless you count a whole lot of DISRESPECT and UNGRATEFULNESS as a 'return' for her efforts.

I really don't think this is so much about you acting like a fool with someone who may or may not be some fat hairy guy living in his mother's basement pretending to be some 25 year old female nymphomaniac; I think it's MORE the complete lack of respect you have for the woman who continually sacrifices her own needs and desires every single DAY in order to make all *your *lives better.

You're missing the BIGGER picture.

What you lack is remorse. The issue isn't how 'big' your sin was. The issue is that you have no TRUE empathy for the pain you've caused her. You might regret what you've done, but you have ZERO empathy.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

I made an account and logged in just to reply to the Op who I can relate to.

I've flirted with women on line like you did and I too minimized the potential damage.

That's how some of us guys think. If it's not a big deal to us then it's not a big deal to her.

Unfortunately what we think doesn't matter, it's now all about what SHE thinks and if you continue to disregard how she feels it's only going to make the problem worse. Much worse.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

I am going to get blasted I am sure, and those that know me from SI and this forum know i am NOT soft on WS ( wayward spouses), but personally in your situation i think all this talk of throwing you under the bus is callous and pretty lacking in empathy. Lets make it clear
(1) I am not excusing what you did. It was wrong and hurtful, and you have been told correctly that you would not just get over it if she was sending naked pictures or sending filthy e mails to another man.
(2) you have minimized what you have done which has hurt your wife even more.

But that aside for a second, there are people on here who are married to serial cheaters ( I mean physical and emotional cheaters) who reconcile. And I am at a lost at how when a BH catches his wife banging eight guys he gets advice that reconciliation is possible and yet there are some here telling your wife to separate or divorce you.

I see so many frigging excuses here about why a wayward does something wrong, and yet how many of the folks here have a diagnosis like yours facing them and how many could be so sure every decision the make would be totally rational and proper. 

I'll stop now because I am getting a bit upset. I have posted to your wife that I PRAY that the two of you can work this out and that your remaining time is spent with some joy.

That will take you being more remorseful and taking advantage of the generous opportunity she is giving you. If people who have faced multiple affairs, long term affairs, multiple breaking of NC can reconcile you can too, and i hope you do not separate and waste this precious time you have.

And for those who want to attack my post as too soft or making excuses, go for it. You obviously have not read much of what I have posted here if you think I am a softie. my wife got the nuclear option as big as it gets, but if she were terminally ill i would not be dumping her for what you did.

Again, I pray for you and her to find peace.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> there are some here telling your wife to separate or divorce you.


That seems like an extreme reaction to the poor guy flirting with a woman online who he never even met.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

MrHB50 said:


> Then one night I was playing this girl (I think or it could have been Bubba?)


You're absolutely right. 

You threw your marriage down the toilet for Bubba. 

@heartbroken50 - dump him immediately. You deserve better.

He's completely remorseless. The only thing he lacked was opportunity. 

If he didn't have colon cancer he would of been halfway to Wyoming by now.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

I really have no idea what the texts were like, can anybody give a link to examples of the texting, sexting, flirting or whatever we talk about here?? Somebody mentioned (naked) pictures? Was that an example or were they exchanged?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It is a mistake to equate flirting with sexting. Flirting doesn't involve the genitals. And, since when is it ok for a married person to flirt with others? If a person wants to keep flirting, then they have no business being married.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrHB, you are quite an eloquent writer. You're saying all the right things. And MrsHB wants to find a reason to stay with you. So I'm rooting for you, believe it or not. 

Now I know men and women have different ways of looking at things. I know men tend to put the need for sex above most other needs. I know women tend to be willing to sacrifice to ensure everyone else is taken care of. And I know men tend to take that aspect for granted (probably because it was a woman who raised you, so guess who gets that role now?).

So when you're mentally in that 'place,' where you're ok with letting your wife support you, especially when you have something like cancer hanging over you, it's easy to become self-absorbed and to have trouble seeing things from someone else's perspective. Especially a woman's perspective.

Unfortunately, that's what's really needed here - you figuring out HOW to see what it's like for her, to understand the pain she's in, to stop thinking 'when am I gonna get sex again?' and where you're sleeping. Each time you make a statement like that, you hurt her more because you're ignoring HER pain.

Do you see that?


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

It's not all your fault, OP. Society pressures us to get married and stay with the same person for 50+ years. Nothing lasts forever. People change (physically/emotionally/spiritually/politically/etc). We get bored. We get older and start to realize our life is going by faster than we thought it could. We start thinking there has to be more than life than sitting on the couch watching TV with same person every night.

You just have to get in your mindset this is the best it will get it, so love her with everything you got.

-- From a recent divorcee. 

FYI - to be more serious... It sounds like you two had a great 20 years of marriage, way better than most. You got bored and got a new high talking with someone new. It created new hormones in your brain that you haven't felt in a LONG TIME and you couldn't stop. You should have known it was wrong and told your wife. But she found out and became very hurt. So yes it was bad. But have others done worst? Oh yeah. You can two can recover from this, that's for sure.


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## mistakesweremade (Aug 15, 2016)

It doesn't matter if you think it's "that bad" or if we think it's "that bad".. what matters is that your wife thinks it's THAT BAD.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What others have done is totally irrelevant. Your wife is married to you and your actions are all that matter to her. You cannot compare marriages.


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

@Openminded - In our case it would not be suitable for us to separate as we wouldn't be able to work on our marriage as effectively that way. It's almost as if "out of sight, out of mind", not to mention the boundaries set or not set. If she's upset enough to separate, what's to stop her from seeking companionship or more with another man? I appreciate my wife working hard to help rebuild our relationship. I just wish I could go back in time and undo what I have done. At this point all I can do is step up like you said. I understand this betrayal takes time to recover from. I do appreciate that she is willing to take the time, no matter how long it takes, to help me make amends.
*
* @See_Listen_Love - I agree that I need to be changing my way of thinking to make her feel at ease that I will never do this again.
There were no pictures sent between me and OW. Our texts were graphically descriptive depictions of what we imagined doing to one another.
* @MattMatt - No, I have never done this before and believe me I will never do it again!!!!
*
* @Catherine602 - I did not talk about my wife with the OW as I never told her I was married. I agree with the rest of what you have to say. My wife has done nothing but give me unconditional love for the past 25 years, and I threw it all away for nothing. It makes me want to throw up when I think about it. I wish I gave it this much thought before I did what I did. I need to give my wife the same unconditional love for the rest of my natural life. Even though I know it's not really about me, it does pain me to see my wife hurting from this. I know she is justified in being upset. I took what I had for granted for nothing. The whole idea of this makes me feel empty inside for putting her through this.
*
*
*@citygirl4344 - I never thought about her trust as a gift. It was just always there. It wasn't my intent to squander her trust. I was just thinking of myself and I should have stopped to take my wife's feelings into consideration and I definitely would have stopped myself. I don't know if I would say that I am skating over everything and doing the bare minimum, but I am stepping up my game and that will be for my wife to decide. My wife and I both agree that we have an open line of communication that will keep us out of limbo. I appreciate that you not advising her to leave me. I do love my wife and I only want to work on our marriage so we can be happy again.
*
* @blueinbr - No, I did not fantasize about OW. The fact that she was in Wyoming made me feel safe that nothing would ever happen. I had no picture of her so no image in my mind to think of.
*
* @PhillyGuy13 - you are right. I only think it would be easier for me because I avoid conflict. But it would probably eat me up inside if she did what I did.
*
* @Satya - I'm sorry if my posts come off as callous or unfeeling. I'm not trying to minimize what I did but I'm not always good at expressing myself. You are right that I need to be able to put myself in her shoes and understand what she's dealing with instead of what I think she should be dealing with. Before all this, our bond was very strong. If you've read our story you would understand but I have come to understand that what I did has shaken our bond to the core.
*
* @Pluto2 - having sex with my wife was not a solution, nor did I think everything was fixed because of that. Lying next to her in bed and making love for that moment gave me a sense of normalcy. I think I was also trying to show her that I still love her, find her attractive, and sexually exciting. I don't want anyone else. She made me understand that this is all about love and respect and at that time I just wasn't getting it. You're right. It's not her job to make it easy on me. Afterall, I've made it hard on her.
*
* @She'sStillGotIt - tell me how you really feel LOL. Yes, my wife does work her fingers to the bone and she does give 110%, but I wouldn't say she doesn't get anything in return. I do try to do my part to help make a nice life for all of us. After reading all of these replies, I can see the bigger picture now and how my actions were disrespectful to her and how ungrateful I was. That was not my intent but I can see it for what it is now.
*
* @silex - making this worse is the last thing I want to do.
*
* @straightshooter - Thank you. I think what you say is direct and to the point. All cheating is wrong because of how it hurts the spouse. But if a wife who bangs 8 guys can reconcile that gives me hope.
*
* @BetrayedDad - cancer or no cancer I would not be on my way to Wyoming. I made no attempt to get to know OW so there wouldn't be any emotional attachment on my part. My wife does deserve better and I will be that man from now on.
*
* @Blondilocks - Yes, flirting is not ok for married men, and what I did was worse than flirting.
*
* @turnera - Yes. I see that. I don't want to hurt her anymore. I just want to ease her pain.
*
* @GuyInColorado - thank you for your comments. You are right that this is the best it will ever get, but I am ok with that because I have it pretty good. I will love her with everything I've got.
*
* @mistakesweremade - Yes...ditto. thank you.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

I know you don't want to make things worse, but by minimizing it you ARE making things worse.

I get it, if you downplay it you hope she will come to the conclusion that she's over reacting but it doesn't work that way. 

She's probably more pissed off at you for disregarding her feelings and she's also probably worried that if you think it's no big deal then what's to stop you from doing it again?

Best thing you can do is tell her you realize it was a big screw up and you understand how she feels.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MrHB50 said:


> @Blondilocks - Yes I did read the 3 books that she asked me to.
> 
> How to help your spouse heal from your affair
> 
> ...


I am going to be sick to my stomach. OP, get a therapist.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm not going to trash the OP that badly. He didn't intend to do anything wrong and got caught up. 

To me, his wife of course has the right to leave him if she wishes, as anyone has a right to leave a marriage if they wish. 

I do not think anyone has a right to "punish" their spouse, whatever the offense. Forgive or leave. A spouse is not a child.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Not intending to do anything wrong the first time it happened is understandable. But keeping it up for six months is a whole lot of self-delusion. Continually making the choice to engage is premeditated. I haven't noticed any reference to punishment. Punishment to one spouse can be self-protection to the other.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

uhtred said:


> I'm not going to trash the OP that badly. He didn't intend to do anything wrong and got caught up.
> 
> To me, his wife of course has the right to leave him if she wishes, as anyone has a right to leave a marriage if they wish.
> 
> I do not think anyone has a right to "punish" their spouse, whatever the offense. Forgive or leave. A spouse is not a child.


But when a spouse acts like a child it can be damn hard to remember to treat them like an adult.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nolight (Aug 20, 2016)

Oh god, this is why i mostly consider spouse who got cheated on to divorce

I have a feeling that OP regrets it not because of he thinks cheating is terrible but because of the consequences he's getting right now. Sort of like when a robber asked if he regret his crime and he said yes because the jail is not worth it, not because stealing is wrong. It's really alarming that you described sexting as "that's all you were looking for" as if it's better. 
Many posters here have given you great advices but well, it looks like you have very low sympathy to your wife's feeling and expect her to just forgive and forget considering even you don't see what you continually did for 6 months is cheating. Plus you consider recovery as punishment. What else is there to say ?


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

MrHB50 said:


> [
> 
> 
> @CantePe - I agree with that assessment. At the time I didn't weigh it out or put much thought into what I was doing. If I had I may have done things different. Also usually my wife was busy working so I didn't think I was taking time away from her. All I can do is try to gain as much trust as I once had. But I don't know what I need to do to get it back.
> ...


Wow...the bolded. That's what my WH did to me. It's why I resent him, why I have a scar deep in the core of me that *I* will never get back. Why I'll never trust another person ever again, at least not fully and never with my most inner being.

You used your wife like some thing, like she wasn't a sentient, feeling, living being...how could you do that to her and still say you love her? That's not love at all.

I've had my count down since Jan 2012. 7 more years, just 7 more years (I'm not about to debate why I'm waiting to leave or my choices. They are mine to make and regardless of what others may think i have made mine).

It's because of men who do what you did that women like me will never be able to trust others or ourselves fully ever again.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Two things:

First: 


> I do try to do my part to help make a nice life for all of us.


Please be specific. What did you do before d-day to make life nice? And how does it differ from what you're doing now?

Second: Are you aware that part of the reason she's not kicking you out right now is because it's just logistically too hard on her to be doing everything without you as a backup? It's not that she's crazy in love with you and can't live without you. Not completely. I'm telling you this so you can understand that the pain she's in isn't just something that goes away because she can't leave you behind because she's so in love. It's also because she feels stuck. Not a good place for you to be.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CantePe said:


> Wow...the bolded. That's what my WH did to me. It's why I resent him, why I have a scar deep in the core of me that *I* will never get back. Why I'll never trust another person ever again, at least not fully and never with my most inner being.
> 
> You used your wife like some thing, like she wasn't a sentient, feeling, living being...how could you do that to her and still say you love her? That's not love at all.
> 
> ...


It's amazing to me that he really sees no issue with getting excited by his internet h0 in bed next to his wife and then simply waking up the convenient warm body next to him to get off.

I don't even know what to say to someone who doesn't understand the issue with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@MrHB50

I'm going to take a little bit of a leap of faith here. I'm going to assume that hearing everyone pretty much unanimously say 'Yeah--what you did WAS that bad' has been a surprise to you. That is to say, you had yourself fairly convinced that seeking out the same fantasy woman and illicitly chatting with her in a full-out sexual way while sometimes masturbating to the thoughts and words, all the while hiding it from your wife for half a year, wasn't all that bad compared to murder or PIV adultery. The reason I put all that in there was because a disloyal spouse's natural tendency is to defend themselves and to minimize what we did. Masturbating becomes sexting...sexting become flirting...flirting becomes 'it was nothing!' and so on. So again, rather than using euphemisms and softer words, I just spoke the truth, and when you say the words out loud, it helps you see exactly what you've done. And now that you've seen several/many people tell you that it WAS that big a deal and it's a marriage busting move, my guess is that you're thinking something like this: "REALLY? You guys would break up a family and a end a good marriage over THAT?"

Here's the thing, @MrHB50--and we are trying to help you see it--for YOU it may not have been all that bad! In fact, it was probably fairly good! You got to escape your cancer and the bills and the kids and all the "responsibility" stuff, and you got the attention of someone who was supposedly a female. You felt young and alive and desired. Like all of us, you have 24 hours in a day, and of those hours, you got to choose what to do with that time and who to be with--and your choice was to let your wife take care of the medical and the bills and the kids and all that "responsibility" stuff while you had FUN!! For you, you had the "ideal" female because you could make up in your head what you wanted her to look like, what age you wanted her to be, and she never talked to you about colostomy bags and pills that make you sick! You had your cake and ate it too! On one hand, you had your wife to take care of the heavy stuff, and you had the fantasy woman to take care of the fun, sexy stuff. So see? For YOU it probably felt pretty good! 

But here's where the problem is: you made a vow to your wife. Vows are not "Oh wow I am so in love with you right now, and as long as you make me happy, I will still have warm, lovey feelings toward you." NO!! Vows are promises, and with promises come obligations. YOUR obligation was to look at your wife and behave toward her in a way that was loving and thoughtful of her for as long as you live. Would you say that giving your sexuality to another woman is treating your wife with love? Is it being thoughtful of her? No you were thinking of YOURSELF!

Now, we all do this. It's not like you are the first person to think of themselves or to even carry it further and become self-centered! Shoot, some degree of self-awareness and self-interest is healthy, right? But while we may all have some degree of understanding--I mean, facing a fatal disease can be really daunting--the way that you dealt with your anxiety, fear and stress was to turn to someone else. That is a bad coping technique!

Right now, your wife is thinking: "I did all this for all these years and carried all this alone for all these years, and I wasn't even worth one thought to him." She also thinks something like: "If all that I've done was so valuable and he loves me and wants me, then why would he throw that away for something that didn't even mean something to him?" Also there's the obvious: "If I am so desirable and sexy and everything, why wasn't I enough? Why did he need or want someone else? How can I compete with a fantasy? I'm imperfect! How am I ever going to feel like he is here with me, loving me in a physical way when he won't even love me mentally or emotionally?" See??

So you thought it was "nothing." You've come here and seen many, many people reply to you and say "It WAS something!" Part of your head may be realizing right now that due to your choice to introduce another person into your sex life, you destroyed your marriage. I'm going to take the leap of faith and guess that's about where you're at: it's just beginning to dawn on you that you may very well lose your wife. So what do you do? 

Well the first thing I'd recommend is having a real heart-to-heart with your wife and letting her know that you are learning a lot--especially about taking the focus off YOU and putting your focus onto her. If you truly believe in your heart of hearts "Okay, I need to stop defending this. I know it was wrong and I just didn't want to admit to myself or to others that I did the wrong thing. I need to put down the walls and just admit--it was me. I was wrong." Then apologize and I mean a REAL apology:

*R--Responsibility.* Take PERSONAL responsibility for the choices you made and for experiencing the natural consequences of what you chose to do. It's not "her being mean" but the normal cost and benefit of what YOU as an adult chose to do. 
*E--Empathy.* Tell her what you think she might be thinking and feeling. Put yourself in her shoes. Express some understanding for what she may be going through. If you're having trouble with this part, this may help: Understanding Your Loyal Spouse - Affaircare
*P--Plan.* Tell your wife how you plan to deal with yourself so that this NEVER, EVER happens again. What are you going to do differently? What do you plan to do to yourself? What protective measures do you plan to take? See, right now the chance of you doing this again if you have another physical downturn is about 90% because you haven't learned any other coping method or changed the way you view it. Thus to your wife, she's scared to death! All it will take is a worsening of your symptoms or disease and she'll be right back here, hurting and insecure! So share what steps you ARE taking and plan to take to ensure HER SAFETY. 
*S--Safety. * This one is a hard one, because you want to reunite with your wife and feel secure yourself and right now you feel like you could lose it all! But YOUR ACTIONS caused this destruction, and it is important for your wife to know that she has your blessing to do whatever she believes she needs to do to keep herself emotionally and mentally safe from further damage. It may be that she is so emotional she can't think clearly and wisely, so she needs time to let her mind click in and make wise decisions. It may be she needs space because the thought that you touched HER while you thought about Bubba makes her ill. Let her know that you encourage her to "do what has to be done" for her to be safe. 

Next steps? I would say start living this mantra: Words mean nothing. Do not "say" or "promise" things to her--SHOW HER. Do actions that DEMONSTRATE growth, change, understanding and honesty. In fact, if it were me, I wouldn't necessarily speak a lot right now at all--it is ALL in your actions. Let your actions consistently demonstrate that you are a changed man inside and out. Okay--maybe you're not "there" yet but you are moving toward it and seriously pursuing growth! Another article that might help you is What the Disloyal Spouse Can Do to Save Their Marriage - Affaircare

Then, stop talking and get to work! Here's one little suggestion--this weekend, even though you LOVE football, arrange for grandparents to watch/care for the boys and take your wife to a mini-vacation somewhere you both enjoy. Purposely do not turn on any of the games, and purposely demonstrate to her that she is so valuable to you that you would give up your favorite thing just for her! The vacation should not be romantic--that is not the purpose! Instead, have it be something FUN that the two of you have always wanted to do but not "got aroundtuit." Go and look into her eyes when she talks and be present and find joy in being with her. Make sense?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mr HB50

How do you feel about the Patriots cheating? 

It's a serious question.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's amazing to me that he really sees no issue with getting excited by his internet h0 in bed next to his wife and then simply waking up the convenient warm body next to him to get off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




At least he is being truthful and forthcoming with the details. It's a start.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> At least he is being truthful and forthcoming with the details. It's a start.


I'll give him that much, he is being truthful about it. I can fully empathize with his wife on how devastating that truth can be though.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

heartbroken50 said:


> REDACTED



Starting your thread here a month after your wife wrote the above and titleing it *"Was What I Did Really That Bad"* shows a complete lack of awareness.

How do you feel when you read what she wrote?

Did you think that you could come here and post your story to get sympathy so your wife would soften?

She feels like you do not love her because of your actions. Your words are not going to change that.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Mr HB50
> 
> How do you feel about the Patriots cheating?
> 
> It's a serious question.


Most people don't even care. It's amazing. They're repeat offenders yet people still look at them like they're champions.

Even Al Michaels glossed over Tom Brady's penalty and even said "Hello Tom I'm sure you're watching this, see you soon" or something silly like that.

The guy should be banned from football, not missed.

Not so sure that's a good example for the Op.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> At least he is being truthful and forthcoming with the details. It's a start.


Sure....

He's truthfully not sorry about doing it because it's "not a big deal" to him and he's just sorry he got caught because now he has to put up with her being hurt.

We get it.... Just sucks for @heartbroken50 to be married to someone who genuinely cares so little about her feelings.

But hey, at least he's honest!




blueinbr said:


> How do you feel about the Patriots cheating?
> 
> It's a serious question.


Explain how it's "cheating" when they played FAR BETTER with the balls at the proper inflation after halftime.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Was What I Did Really That Bad? 

How long did it go on again? If not so bad, then give your wife the same amount of time frame to have sex with other men. Its not really that bad.


Deception, lying hurts a relationship.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Starting your thread here a month after your wife wrote the above and titleing it *"Was What I Did Really That Bad"* shows a complete lack of awareness.
> 
> How do you feel when you read what she wrote?


What makes you think he cared enough to even read it? 

He's only on here to shut her up. Seems fairly obvious....


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Benefit of the doubt...but I quoted a piece just in case...


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Her thread is in Private, so unless she showed it to him (don't recall either way) he couldn't see it.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

Yeah, it was bad. Could it have been worse? Sure. It could have been no big deal too. Like if your wife was doing similar or really didn't give a crap about you.. The problem is that she does care deeply. She does love you very much. And she has been loving on you for 25 years.

You have been getting a lot of tough love here, as you should. I agree with almost all of it. The part I want to turn you on your head about is your health. It is not an excuse for what you did, nor is it a reason for her to extend reconciliation to you. 

The best tool that this shytty hand can be used for is this. Time is short and you know it. Give her the gift of every last fvcking bit of you. Set down your pride or fear or whatever. Grow the biggest pair that has ever been manifest and weep with her, absorb her pain, take the slings and arrows....and love her.

Dammit man!! Give her the memory of you digging deep, going all out and being a bigger better man than you ever thought was possible. Do not go quietly. Do not go weak.

~ Passio


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> What makes you think he cared enough to even read it?
> 
> He's only on here to shut her up. Seems fairly obvious....






CharlieParker said:


> Her thread is in Private, so unless she showed it to him (don't recall either way) he couldn't see it.






Ceegee said:


> Starting your thread here a month after your wife wrote the above and titleing it *"Was What I Did Really That Bad"* shows a complete lack of awareness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




OP was asked by his wife to come here to learn. 

He came. He gets points for that. 

He told some really heavy stuff, eye rolling stuff. He gets points for that. 

He responded to most of replies. He gets points for that too. 

Even if he never "gets it" it is important to W that he at least makes a real effort to try to understand. 

Good job for day 1 MrHB50.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Please don't drag his wife's posts from the private section to here. They are in 'private' for a reason.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

blueinbr said:


> OP was asked by his wife to come here to learn.
> 
> He came. He gets points for that.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: 

I do agree with what @blueinbr said, except I'd like to point out one thing. We are not "keeping score" here so the concept of getting points really isn't as accurate. 

I think @blueinbr 's intent was that we recognize @MrHB50 's effort and that we acknowledge the attempt. That is to say, at this early stage we would not expect to see completely fog-free thinking nor attaining the goal of "reconciling." We would expect some struggle to understand, some resistance, and some puffs of fog here and there--but for people who have a chance, we'd also expect to see some courage, some honesty when it's difficult to be honest, some determination even though it's hard, and some movement in a positive way (toward mental health and growth vs. toward minimizing and defending the affair). 

I think we're seeing that. I think @MrHB50 has a really good chance of working through this and coming out a better man. It's within the realm of conceive-ability. Now let's see if we can take another step forward!


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Please don't drag his wife's posts from the private section to here. They are in 'private' for a reason.


Did someone do that? I did not see any.

OP needs 30 posts. Then he can read the private. Or he can ask his wife.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> Did someone do that? I did not see any.
> 
> OP needs 30 posts. Then he can read the private. Or he can ask his wife.


Post #68.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

My bad. 

I didn't realize. 

Will delete. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Did someone do that? I did not see any.
> 
> 
> 
> OP needs 30 posts. Then he can read the private. Or he can ask his wife.




Thanks for pointing out btw. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MrHB50 said:


> @Openminded - In our case it would not be suitable for us to separate as we wouldn't be able to work on our marriage as effectively that way. It's almost as if "out of sight, out of mind", not to mention the boundaries set or not set. If she's upset enough to separate, what's to stop her from seeking companionship or more with another man? I appreciate my wife working hard to help rebuild our relationship. I just wish I could go back in time and undo what I have done. At this point all I can do is step up like you said. I understand this betrayal takes time to recover from. I do appreciate that she is willing to take the time, no matter how long it takes, to help me make amends.
> *
> *
> @See_Listen_Love - I agree that I need to be changing my way of thinking to make her feel at ease that I will never do this again.
> ...


You are saying all of the right things but are you living them? Your actions seem to indicate that you don't take what you did seriously enough to suit the deep hurt you caused. The title of your thread says that. 

In reality, your wife's pain has effected you only because you are not getting all of the free goodies she gives so freely. I doubt you would get impatient, demanding and entitled if you were. 

If your friends and family knew what you did, what would they think of you? Betraying a kind and good wife and then afterwards ignoring her pain, would not make you a man worthy of respect.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

OP is a cake eater.

(Some of you will get it. ) :grin2:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> My bad.
> 
> I didn't realize.
> 
> ...


No worries. I dealt with it for you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> OP is a cake eater.
> 
> (Some of you will get it. ) :grin2:


Oh, yes. He is like...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

blueinbr said:


> OP is a cake eater.
> 
> (Some of you will get it. ) :grin2:


Polite laughter.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

If you playfully pushed your wife into a pool and suddenly she was drowning.....taking on water.....struggling to break the surface to keep herself alive......would you jump in and save her? Or would you throw her a floatie and hope she caught it?

If you jumped in to save her and you had to give her cpr to revive her, while hoping and praying that she lived - would you look at her and said "oh yeah, you almost drowned, but I didn't MEAN for THAT to happen, so what I did wasn't that bad!" Or would you hold her in your arms and apologize profusely for your mistake of not meaning to hurt her but instead severely hurting her and her almost dying?

That's what you did OP. You weren't thinking and you pushed her in the water. As she's choking on her tears, you're trying to throw her a floatie, hoping that's enough to save her life. And you're laughing at her saying "oh just buck up, I didn't MEAN to almost kill you, get over it!"

You're letting her drown, at your hand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> OP was asked by his wife to come here to learn.
> 
> He came. He gets points for that.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. The OP and his wife are here asking for support and help. So let's be careful about the 2x4's. They cause a lot of bruising and make healing a lot harder.


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

@silex- Thanks for the advice. In the beginning I was trying to minimize hoping this would go away but you are right all this did was make W more upset. I wasn’t getting it. With all these new posts I’ve been reading the only sensible thing to do is own it and do what I can to make things right.
@NobodySpecial - First of all I do have a Therapist, and second when you piece all of the passages together like that, it makes me want to throw up too. I am truly here trying to work on myself and the only way to really do that is to put it all out there, I could gloss over the really uncomfortable parts but then I wouldn’t really be accomplishing anything. I really don’t want to do this ever again!!!
@uhtred - You’re right my wife does have the right to leave but after 20 years of marriage I am thankful she is willing to work with me, just as we have done through all of our hardships- the kids illnesses, bankruptcy, foreclosure, and my stage 4 colon cancer. We have to at least give it a shot, we are worth that. I have never stopped loving my wife. 
@Blondilocks- I am sleeping on the couch in the living room, she reminds me everyday what I did, walking around in a funk, crying or red-faced and an unhappy look on her face. I created that, me alone, isn’t that punishment that I can’t do anything to change it. I say I am sorry over and over but it just seems to make her madder, I help more around the house and she’ll say why are you not trying to make things better.
@MattMatt- Agreed
@nolight - Thank you for your post - it seems as if you’re a bit angry and I’m not sure if you had a partner who did this same to you, but I believe every relationship is different and unique and cannot just be chalked up to one simple answer- divorce. If both partners in a marriage want to work to make things better, it is their right to do so, that is why I’m here I am hoping to become a better husband and man. I don’t understand why you think I have a low sympathy for my wife. I can see she is truly hurt by what I did and I’m trying to make things right as best I can, with the help from all of you.
@CantePe - I am truly sorry for what your going through, I have seen first hand the impact it has had on my W so again I say sorry. My question to you, is this the first and only time your WH did this to you? Is there even a shred of happiness you’ve found in this marriage that might find you forgiving him? Hopefully you can, I am here working on my marriage because I do love my wife and I regret what I did. I am not interested in anybody else and I don’t want to throw away 20 years of marriage. Why did you stay for 7 years, if your husband is truly looking for something or someone else, why wouldn’t you just let him go, so you could move on and find happiness?
@turnera - I do alot within the house. W has her business in our house so we are here 24/7 we occasionally go on a date night or do errands outside the house but other than that we are home, my 3 boys go to school, I drive them back and forth daily, I take care of all meals or order in on occasion, I take care of the finances, I clean the house (well I try, not always the best job) but generally it functions. Now, I am doing the same, but just trying to step up my game and do more and better.
I believe I understand my wife fairly well after 20 years of marriage, we all say things we don’t mean in a fit of rage, for which I don’t blame her. This is my mess, I need to clean it up the best way I can, and be sure that my W is comfortable moving forward the best that she knows how. For now I am working on myself and giving her the space she needs to be able to get past this or not.
@LifesTooShort - I definitely find what I did as wrong, my W does not deserve to be treated this way and you can be sure I will never do this to her again. I keep trying to apologize but it just reminds her of what I did and she gets more upset. It sounds terrible when I see it written. Hard to believe that’s what I did.
@Affaircare- Thank You for the sane advice. I feel like you are giving me advice that I can take and use to let my wife know how much I appreciate and adore her. I understand my past actions do not convey this at all, in fact, I did everything I could to destroy what I have. If my wife does find it in her heart to forgive me, I will never ever again take it for granted. And yes, it does make sense!!!! Again thank you for the acknowledgment, but what I did is terrible and my thanks will be when I have my wife back and we are moving forward together towards a better life than the one we had before D-Day.
@blueinbr - That’s a tough one, best not to go there!!!
@blueinbr- I am trying to be truthful and open, so as to never have the desire to do this again, there are many other coping skills I can use that don’t involve cheating on my wife or destroying my marriage. Thanks again for seeing that I am trying not just for her but for myself as well.
@CantePe - Coming forward with the whole truth means I have nothing else to hide. I would never want my wife to be blindsided by this ever again, I’ve done enough of that already.
@Ceegee - Trust me I was aware of everything right from D-Day to today I heard every word of what you had posted first hand several times and my W even asked me to read her thread the first time she sent it. Don’t worry I get it, I have heard from many others on this site that what I did was cheating. Growing up I always thought cheating was the physical act of sex happening between a man and woman against the others spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend. I was questioning the fact that I never had sexual intercourse so how could it be cheating. Now I understand!!!!
@BetrayedDad- I really am trying to work thru this, I am not interested in doing this again. My wife really is an amazing woman if you were to meet her and she did not deserve any of my crap. Thanks for saying what I would have said about the Patriots. No need to be so bitter, again I not only read her first thread, I heard all of it on D-Day and a few days after that.

@TaDor - Agreed, It is that bad!!!

@CharlieParker- Yes she let me read her first thread and I saw first hand when she was crying and feeling broken-hearted
@Idyit - What you described is what I want to do. Reconciling what I did, and paying back in spades to my wife before I go.
@Catherine602 - W wanted me to tell my sister what I did, so I told her, I thought she would have been harder on me, but that’s why I’m here to hold nothing back, to lay all of it out on the table and to get the harshest feedback to learn and grow from.
@LosingHim- I’m jumpin in!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, why do you believe it wasn't a big deal? Was it because you did not have physical contact? 
Are you starting to understand that the betrayal was just as deep to your W without that element? Whether you agree or not is pretty irrelevant.

I'm sharing a link to ChumpLady, and one of her posts about real vs, fake remorse. I think you may see some- but not all- of you in there. I honestly don't think you are engaging in a full blown "fake" remorse. But the fact you sleep on the couch should be enough for you to realize what ever you are doing is simply not enough.

Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com


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## nolight (Aug 20, 2016)

MrHB50 said:


> @nolight - Thank you for your post - it seems as if you’re a bit angry and I’m not sure if you had a partner who did this same to you, but I believe every relationship is different and unique and cannot just be chalked up to one simple answer- divorce. If both partners in a marriage want to work to make things better, it is their right to do so, that is why I’m here I am hoping to become a better husband and man. I don’t understand why you think I have a low sympathy for my wife. I can see she is truly hurt by what I did and I’m trying to make things right as best I can, with the help from all of you.


The reason about sympathy is quite clear, your wife is deeply hurting and confused and here are your quotes



MrHB50 said:


> just texting of a sexual nature, that’s all I was really looking for.





MrHB50 said:


> for which I looked at as meaningless banter and for my W to look at as the desecration of 25 years together and 20 years of marriage.





MrHB50 said:


> I don’t think what I did was that bad. She made me tell my sister, our clergy, and W told 2 friends and my FIL. Isn’t that enough of a penance? She kicked me out of my bed... our dog has better accommodations! We are in MC, and I’m trying to do everything she asks, I even wrote her an apology letter that my therapist assigned. And every day she reminds me because of how crappy she feels that this isn’t over. How can I get her to forgive me? I’m not good at reading hints, but is what I did really all that bad? I know my W is concerned that when the dust settles I may do this again, but I have no desire to do that, because I’ve seen how much it hurt my W and the image of horror on her face when she discovered me is ingrained on my brain forever. I do regret what I did, but she doesn’t believe me. I think I understand where W is coming from but she doesn’t feel that I’m getting it.




I'm sorry if i came across as angry, i was just being straight forward and from what i've read from your posts, it's still all about you. And no, i'm not married and haven't been cheated and cheated on but i've seen multiple times both in my inner circle and environment the effects that cheating bring to someone who got cheated on and here you are talking that you don't get laid and sleeps on sofa. Recovery is not penance or punishment like you've said, it's impossible to expect someone who got cheated on not to behave at least cold toward the cheater


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

To me the fact you have to ask that question in the heading says it all. YOU have not come to the full realization of the damage you have done to your wife and your marriage. It's like a tornado went through your home when your family was sleeping upstairs, you were in the basement, get up the next morning, the sun is shining and wonder what all the fuss is about. You are either in denial, very selfish or plain unsympathetic, maybe all three.

I wonder how you would feel if your wife were to talk the way the OW talked with you but with another man. Would you be ok with that if if went on for a period of time? With him telling her all the things he wants to do to her and her reciprocating likewise, her telling him how hot he was, etc. You get the picture?

A woman is not like a man. A man can often compartmentalize the sex from the emotion, a woman cannot. To her you have decimated her world and everything she believed about herself as your woman and about you as her man. You are not the man she thinks you are and that is something difficult to come to grips with. You have lost a part of her heart, and you will never get it back.

The way you talk is of someone who is minimizing, no remorse and it's all about poor me, poor me, how can she be making this so difficult for me..........as I said no sympathy, empathy or realization of what you have done.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It sounds like you are doing your best here, OP. I feel kind of sorry for you. I believe you when you say you love your wife. I don't think you were trying to hurt her, though that is certainly what happened.

Please be as honest and open as possible with her, including why you did it, why you hid it, and why you did not, or possibly even do not, really understand why she is so upset by it. If you feel she has overreacted, you need to tell her that. Humbly and gently, for sure. But if it is your genuine feeling, she needs to hear that, and why. 

You both need to give honesty, and be able to hear it, no matter how painful. That is how you will both grow from this incident. Transparency is powerful, and can heal. But it is often painful at first.

FWIW, I don't think you ever loved that woman. I do think you love your wife, and are showing her that love in a way that you consider meaningful. But she wants to be loved in a way that *she* considers meaningful. You two could have an interesting talk on how she feels you could best do that for her.

And please do not feel you have to say what TAM wants to hear. Say what you genuinely think, as you did with your title. Or feel free to say nothing. You do not need to please anyone here. You certainly do not owe us anything. 

Thanks for being willing to come here and share your thoughts with us. You did not have to. I hope it helps you and your wife somehow.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MrHB50, you are interpreting your wife's reaction to the situation as punishment. It is not her intent to punish you by crying etc. Her behavior is a consequence of having her world blown apart. Referring to it as punishment smacks of self-pity and manipulation. You are not the victim here. 

What you did was a crime against the heart. You cannot make amends for emotional pain by doing physical things. Yes, it is nice that you are being more helpful with the day to day tasks of living but that doesn't cut the mustard. You need to find a way to make your wife feel emotionally safe with you. Read those books again until her pain resonates with you. And, stop increasing her work load by buying flowers and ordering in. She needs more rest - not more work to pay for them.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Cook for the family today, or for you and the kids if W eats NS. 

I agree with BL. Quit the order in for now.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> You need to find a way to make your wife feel emotionally safe with you.


This might be a good focus, OP. Ask your wife what could make her feel emotionally safe with you. Really listen to what she says. Make a plan together for how to do this.

And then work on how she could do the same for you.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

The worse thing you can do right now is not to follow through with what you committed to. If you agree to do something, do it. And do it by the time you said you would.


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

I stay for the kids. He has not done it again but he has never truly acknowledged what he did.

He said sorry, sure. Many times in the first year or two. He never did the heavy lifting, he never truly appreciated the pain he caused and rug swept it (but that means I rug swept it as well).

We don't fight though (never really have to be honest).

Can I forgive him? Enough to co parent our children in a civil manner for the sake of the children - absolutely.

Can I forgive him enough to trust him 100% - unfortunately, that answer is no.

He said the same thing - he wasn't (and isn't) truly looking for someone else or something else and yet he did what he did.

His actions did not reflect his words. 17 years together. I gave up and sacrificed my career, my 20s (a career I went to college for) ...we have a special needs child ourselves (autism spectrum).

So many similarities between your household and ours. I usually don't or try not to let a poster affect me directly but I have to admit both your wife and you have resonated so many similarities between your situation and mine that I can't help being affected.

Do the work, heavy lifting, don't rug sweep, acknowledge it to its fullest - acknowledge her and her pain and ask how can I help you today, this moment. Listen to what she is both saying and not saying.

When a woman gives up, she stops asking/speaking and goes silent. When a woman goes silent she has given up the fight.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

CantePe said:


> When a woman gives up, she stops asking/speaking and goes silent. When a woman goes silent she has given up the fight.


Worth reflecting on.

Fortunately for you, OP, your wife is not there. She is still very much trying.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

CantePe said:


> When a woman gives up, she stops asking/speaking and goes silent. When a woman goes silent she has given up the fight.




OP, this needed repeating. When the wife is silent, us guys think all is well. But nothing is further from the truth. 

Silent is a warning sign. Remember that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fwiw, I think you have truly had your eyes opened, and the posts you made when you first came here are probably not your viewpoint now.

The danger I see now is that you are still looking at this in terms of 'how long do I have to go through this' instead of 'please tell me what else I can do that will help her'?

IIWY, focus on THAT. Have regular talks with her. Ask her what feels bad. What would make a difference. What would make her feel safe. Ask for specifics, and then just do them.

When a betrayed spouse first finds out the betrayal, they will often have to rehash it, day after day after day. Usually for months. Yes, months. And a truly remorseful WS will, yes, just sit there and take it. Because their spouse's healing is THE most important thing at the moment. If you're so uncomfortable on the couch, borrow someone's blowup bed. If you're horny, take care of yourself. Following her up the stairs is a no-no, until SHE feels safe enough around you. 

And once this panic period is over, make sure that you: 1) go on regular dates somehow to bring back the romance and 2) have regular meetings, once a week or once a month, where you both speak VERY honestly about how the marriage is going, what you would change, what you like and don't like...so that neither of you ever starts withholding again.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

HB50

Until you have been cheated on you have no idea what turmoil this causes. You say you would be angry if your wife had done this, well you can add about a hundred emotions and you aren't even close to knowing what a betrayed spouse feels. The fact you hope your wife heals quicker then 2-5 years is an arrogant response. This clearly shows you have absolutely no idea about infidelity or its consequences. 

You have asked for help, a moderator has said to be careful of the 2X4's, so I have gently said you are arrogant. You are in fact much worse, and to save your marriage you will need to self reflect on yourself. In the meantime your wife has seemed distant on what you post, and that shows me her resolve for fighting is diminishing fast. This means you will need to work on you and the marriage at the same time. From what you have posted, from the words you wrote, it appears to me they are just words and minimal actions at best. 

That may seem harsh to you, but I guarantee it is harsher on your wife. You have stated you would be mad if your wife did this, that you would get over it before 2-5years passes, which is pure arrogance. Part of healing is to understand exactly what you have done, you have essentially killed your wife. Your wife will never be the same, your marriage died that day you began to "chat" with the OW. You need to build a new marriage now, and your posts show you aren't capable. I say this because you have no empathy, no compassion, and barely shown any sort of love. As for remorse, I don't think you have any with exception to the definition of the word. 

My post may sting, my post may be regarded as a 2X4, but I assure you I have barely even touched on how harsh your affair was. You have asked for help and keep all of this about you. You say you need to think of her more and not yourself, but then your next post is about you again. My advice, have your wife seek therapy, then let her decide what she wants. It's her choice to make anyway, just as you chose to betray your family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

jld said:


> It sounds like you are doing your best here, OP. I feel kind of sorry for you. I believe you when you say you love your wife. I don't think you were trying to hurt her, though that is certainly what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I completely agree with this.
I think he broke a trust by doing something stupid and now had to suffer the consequences but he does love his wife.



Sent from my iPhone


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

OP, I’m not going to beat you up. But I want to give you some information.

My husband is a porn addict – undiagnosed of course – but all of the signs and symptoms are there. My husband has used/abused porn for the entire almost 11 years we’ve been together. I never minded porn. At all. I’ve watched it myself. I’d dated guys that watched it, I was married to one. But with my husband it was different. He told me he didn’t need porn because he had me. I wholeheartedly and fully believed that. Thinking I was his everything. And for a man to not need porn because he had me? Man, I must’ve really been hot stuff in and out of the sack! He needed no fantasy because he had ME! 

My world came crashing down when I came home one day, opened the internet, went to the history to find a page I’d visited the day before and there was porn ALL OVER my computer. The very first thought in my head was “I’m NOT enough”. He’d told me he didn’t need it because I was enough, but he was watching it so it must mean I WASN’T enough. I confronted him about lying about it. I got remorse and tears and sorry’s and promises, but it never stopped. 11 years later – he still watches porn. The only thing that’s different now is that he doesn’t hide it. But I dealt with him lying about it for close to 11 years. He’s only NOT lied and hid it for 7 months! 7 months does not erase the pain of 10 years. Each time felt like a betrayal. Each time FELT like cheating. Not because he watched porn. He’s a man. Men watch porn (as do some women) but because he lied about it. I wasn’t worth the truth. The porn meant more to him then being honest with me or the fact that I felt betrayed every single time he lied about it. Some floozy on pornhub meant more than me trusting him and my self esteem and self worth. I began to see these women as REAL women he was actually cheating on me with. No, he never saw them in person, but these women were real enough to take away from my marriage and destroy me. I have body issues now, I have self esteem issues, every time I sleep with my husband – I wonder if I’m performing up to par with what he sees on the internet. 

Through my research on porn addiction, I have discovered that it usually is used as a form of escape from reality and generally starts with a traumatic event. My husbands dad died when he was 15 years old – very violently and unexpectedly. Guess when my husband started watching porn? When he was 15. He has admitted he uses it as an escape from reality. It is his own personal escape where he doesn’t have to worry about anyone elses feelings, pleasing anyone else, stress, etc. The ONLY thing he thinks about during that time is pleasure. To a certain extent OP, I understand this. But what I cannot understand or accept is the lying about it and hiding it. THAT is what makes it a betrayal. 

I am explaining all of these things because I believe that what you did was an escape from reality. You used it to soothe yourself. And I am pretty sure your wife understands that. You didn’t have to think about cancer during that time or anyone else’s feelings. You focused only on your pleasure and it was a nice distraction from life. But the thing is, on the other end of your phone was a REAL PERSON. Now, I’m sure you understand that that other person could’ve been a 400 pound man for all you know. But I am sure that you had a picture in your head of what this person looked like. Maybe she was blonde, about 5’8 with a ginormous rack and a youthful private arena. Maybe she was a big beautiful woman with curves for days. Maybe she looked like Angelina Jolie – who knows? The fact is, you most likely gave this person an identity and that identity was attached to a real person. And you spoke sexually with that real person. Just like I am typing this now and you are reading it – yes, it is anonymous because we can’t SEE each other, but we are still real people behind these keyboards and phone screens. 

Your wife mentioned you get worried when @turnera posts on your thread. I can see why. She’s beat me upside the head a lot of times too, but she does it because she cares. My point is – you get worried when she posts because she’s a REAL PERSON behind the screen she’s posting from. She is telling you REAL things, REAL advice, REAL feelings. They are coming from a LIVE person. That’s what you need to understand about what you did. Some people look at sexting the same as viewing porn and it’s not. Viewing porn online IS real people, but these real people are performing for a camera, being paid to do a job, distributing their goods for men, women and couples to peruse at their leisure. Sexting with someone is a real person, sharing real time information, real time thoughts and feelings, real time turn ons and arousal. While they may have ‘just been words’ there were physical reactions to those words. You gave yourself sexual pleasure from those words. You turned to your wife for sexual gratification from those words. And all of those words were spoken by a REAL person, whom you’d manufactured in your mind to look like whatever fantasy you had. You replaced your wives physical body with the fantasy of the words that you spoke and read from another person. Your wife was the stunt double for the star.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

aine said:


> A woman is not like a man. A man can often compartmentalize the sex from the emotion, a woman cannot.


Too much of a generalization... There certainly are women who easily separate sex from any emotions.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Steve1000 said:


> Too much of a generalization... There certainly are women who easily separate sex from any emotions.


Short term I believe it’s easy for many women to separate sex from emotion. Long term may be a little different. But yes, there are many women that can separate sex from love.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think it is easier for women to separate love from sex in a relationship. If that were not the case then how do you explain women who love their husbands but have no sexual desire for them. 

Having sex does not mean that a woman loves her partner nor does not having sex mean she does not love him.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Steve1000 said:


> Too much of a generalization... There certainly are women who easily separate sex from any emotions.


To be fair in this particular scenario the wife HB doesn't see this as some meaningless sexual thing her WH did. That was my point. He cannot understand that because for the OP they can be compartmentalised. I take your point that not all women are the same.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi MrHB, how are you feeling?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

You have repeatedly said that you help your wife. The mindset behind that is that you are doing her some kind of favor. 
You are an adult. You live in that house. You reap the rewards of your wife's labor. When you are doing anything household or family related, you are not helping. You are doing your duty - taking care of your personal responsibility. When your wife does the dishes, do you think she is helping around the house? How about when she cleans the toilet or makes dinner or any other thing? No. You don't think she is helping, but when you do it, that suddenly becomes helping.
Do your duty, man. And stop thinking that what you do is taking up someone else's slack. Your wife isn't slacking, so there is no slack to take up. Your wife is working her butt off to make a better life for your family and you think you are somehow picking up slack. If there are things left to be done, it isn't because your wife didn't get them done. It's because you haven't been taking your responsibilities seriously enough.
That mindset is what caused you to sex a woman other than your wife and all that amounts to.


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## MrHB50 (Sep 11, 2016)

@Pluto2- Yes, I always thought an affair had to have physical intercourse. I do realize now that no matter how you look at it sexting is cheating. I wish I could change the title of my posts because I do get that now. You’re right what I’m doing is not enough. I realize this is a process, and processing takes time, as I said before I’m giving W all the time and space she needs to process whats happened. What else can I do to show my wife how much she means to me?
@nolight - I don’t remember saying anything about not getting laid, even though I’m not these days and I don’t think I’m making this about me anymore. This is all about W and how I can make her feel emotionally safe. W has done a good job at giving the cold shoulder.

@aine - The title has been answered over and over again in this forum. Yes it really was that bad!!!!! I do see that now. I hurt my W very deeply and now I need to focus on making her feel emotionally safe with me. I realize the path of destruction I have created, but I will do everything in my power to clean this up between me and my W. 
@jld- I realize forgiving takes time and time is what I have now. When W is ready or maybe never to forgive, I will be here waiting. I want to give W love in a meaningful way, if she’ll let me. I did ask W what I could do to make her feel emotionally safe, so we proceeded to hug for 10 minutes, it was nice,she loves to hug.
@Blondilocks- I am trying to make W feel emotionally safe I walked right up to her this afternoon and asked her what I could do to make her feel emotionally safe and we hugged for about 10 minutes but she never answered the question, I’m sure I’ll have other opportunities to ask the question and get an answer. Your right about not creating more work for her, that’s the last thing I would want to do.
@blueinbr- I did cook in today made NS for W and pizza for the kids went to Senior Night at the school my son is graduating from this Spring. Thanks for the warning, I’ll keep my eyes and ears open.
@CantePe- Hope I didn’t come off too defensive, I’m just trying to do the heavy lifting here especially by laying it all on the table and showing my W I am in this 100% to repair the damage that I have done to her broken heart and try to make her feel emotionally safe again. Fortunately, W has not gone silent, I will do everything in my power not to make that happen!!!
@turnera - I really feel I am taking away alot of great advice from this forum in order to save our marriage. You have given me some great advice here, for that I say Thank You. I like the idea of keeping the romance fresh and talking about the marriage whether its weekly or biweekly. My W and I don’t often do that, we just assume things are OK. Up until dday our MC was all about coping with stress and medical issues. First, I will work on making my W feel emotionally safe and after we turn the corner we will work on romance and I don’t just mean sex. Then we will work on open a line of communication about the marriage and how we feel it’s going.
I am feeling OK amazing all the people who care to try and help, I don’t take this for granted. Sorry I didn’t get back here sooner, been running around all day doing errands, etc. Thanks for asking.
@driftingon- It appears you have not followed my W’s entire thread nor mine if you had you would know I have stage 4 colon cancer I may not even have 2-5 years left. You also mention that it appears my W is not inputting her opinions to my thread that is a decision she made when I decided to come to this forum, she is trying to let me have my own experience and discovery without giving her opinion. I believe if she has anything to say you can go to her private thread to see what she has to say. I am here trying to figure out how to be more empathetic, remorseful, loving to W and to enjoy her and my children for whatever time I do have left. Thanks for the 2x4’s
@citygirl4344 - Thanks, Yes I do love my wife very much even if I had a terrible way of showing it. I’d be lost without her.
@LosingHim - Thanks for sharing your story and I’m sorry you have to deal with your husband’s addiction. No matter how you slice it what I did was wrong, thankfully I am not addicted to what I was doing as I have no desire to get back on and chat with this person and I’m not an addictive personality. I maybe have a drink a month and I quit smoking back in April 1991. When I say I have no desire to go back to sexting or anything like that, I love my wife too much to ever hurt her again like that.
@CynthiaDe - You’re right, I am trying to do more but my body still gets fatigued from the lasting effect of chemo and my diagnosis. This is an on going battle plus W and I are working on getting the kids more involved in the household chores not because I’m lazy because we are preparing them for when they leave the nest my oldest will be gone next year, off to college.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Couple of things:
1) Chores and flowers are things you should have been doing anyway, unless you were too sick. So, no, those have NOTHING to do with healing.
2) If it takes 1 week or 10 years, YOU do not get to dictate when she heals or how. Yes, this sucks with your diagnosis, but it can't be helped.
3) Don't just read the books, understand what they are saying.
4) Dude, there is no checklist to mark off which will win your marriage and wife back. I get this impression from many of your posts. Stop this thinking and remove it from your tool box.

5) This is important. It is that bad regardless of what posters say, if your wife feels this way. Yes, it may lessen later, but DO NOT operate under the false assumption there is worse, she'll get over it or it could've been <insert act>. Right now, it absolutely is not. It can be marriage ending bad and you not getting it isn't helping the issue. TAM WAS her safe place to share and vent and she opened it to you. This could be a good thing, but with your comments it feels like she may think you do not get it and that is bad.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorry MR HB, i know we are all giving you what you think is a hard time and it is not our intention. A few things you have said makes me wonder have you really got it yet? I know you are grappling alot with your medical issues and that of course clouds the issues in your marriage. I think you are slowly getting there, but be careful with what you say and write. YOur wife is probably reading this thread also. For example, 

"W has done a good job at giving the cold shoulder" : it is not something she is doing to YOU, you have decimated her world, you are lucky she even allows you in the house at all, some women would have simply kicked you out, and moved on no questions, no talk, no nothing.

I would suggest that you speak and write mindfully, this is very important in reconciliation. I know we are all human and sometimes want to express our own hurts, bitterness, etc but this does more damage than good. Mindfulness is the way forward, think before you speak or write, listen more and actually hear what she is saying to you.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

MrHB50 said:


> [MENTION=73425] I know I screwed up and trust me my wife reminds me every day that she is now in charge of my free time. Which I understand and I am ok with.


Dude, it's not that she's "in charge" of your free time. You aren't a little boy with detention.

You're going through a period of having to re-earn your partner's trust, and _learn_ what should be communicated and when. And you're going to have to do the learning and the finding out and the heavy lifting on solving everything there is to know about what you should be learning. While you're in a mindset of "she's in charge of my free time" you're avoiding responsibility of getting better than you were before - clearly for whatever reason (that will only truly be remembered in the minds of women) you stuffed up - therefore you're the only one who can teach you what you need to do better and how to fit that into who you are. Otherwise, what when you get back in charge of your free time, you'll make a similar mistake?? I think you know you've got to be better than that, make better choices, find paths that put you in places so that choice doesn't really seem appealing. It's a big job and can't be done with a bums' rush.

You got a lot of books to read - here's another (a few pages) 5 Love Languages. It will help you spot cues in the relationship that you (like everyone) don't notice.

Also beware the books, reading them tends to give people the idea that they're experts (defintion of "expert" : "read a book and came from out of town"). Treat them like customer complaints, great ideas, good leads, but only a place to start; not answers, and never quite fit the real deal. Who you are depends on how you want to apply them and who you want to be; so as parting shot I completely recommend if you haven't done so yet, get a Miers-Briggs personality profile for yourself and your partner......not because you need to know what it says, but because there are lots of really awesome descriptive words that you can apply to lives problems and how you think about yourself and your partner; ie things to say to a partner, and ask yourself in the test, "how do I think my partner would act", "What would they do", "What are their priorities".... 'cause I doubt you sat down at that game first time going "Oh boy, I'm gonna get some hot hand action here tonight"


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Yes, you can change your thread title.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

MrHB50 said:


> W has done a good job at giving the me the cold shoulder.


HI there, I think it's a great thing you're here. We can learn a lot from you and you can learn alot from us. 

The statement above makes me think you're a long way from getting it. You can get there, but buckle your seat belt Cuz the ride ain't easy.

She's not giving you the cold shoulder. Shes not "giving" you anything. It's how she feels. She is devastated and rightfully so.

I think at this stage, you're merely parroting the right words to say. I hope you can work toward healing your relationship with your wife with the help of the good folks here. 


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Are you doing the HNHN worksheets to your wife's expectations? If not, stop posting for a day and do the **** worksheets.

Obviously you are well educated. We can tell from your writing style. But you don't seem to be doing what you need to do. Why is that?

Your wife is trying to figure out if you are unable to do the heavy lifting or unwilling to do the heavy lifting. There is a world of difference between unable and unwilling. 

We can help you with unable, but if you are unwilling, your marriage is toast and you better get used to sleeping on the couch. 

Take what you read and learned from here the last two days and spend today IMPLEMENTING it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you are sincere, OP.

I hope you and your wife start having sex soon. She surely does not want regrets if and when she loses you.

Have you tried any special diet for your cancer, like a juice diet?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Hunh? I hope she doesn't have sex with him until she is ready, time permitting or not. There is no "surely" when it comes to regrets. She owes herself time to heal. Being used as a fill in and then finding out about it, is not healthy or helpful for anyone.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Hunh? I hope she doesn't have sex with him until she is ready, time permitting or not. There is no "surely" when it comes to regrets. She owes herself time to heal. Being used as a fill in and then finding out about it, is not healthy or helpful for anyone.


 @heartbroken50 is a very loving and mature woman. She seems to be growing a lot, herself. I trust she will consider all angles to this, and do what she feels is best.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Awesome and it changes nothing about what I posted. If she is giving him the cold shoulder and isn't letting him sex her out of her growing, good for her. Part of growing is making adult decisions which may be good for you and not someone else.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Awesome and it changes nothing about what I posted. If she is giving him the cold shoulder and isn't letting him sex her out of her growing, good for her. Part of growing is making adult decisions which may be good for you and not someone else.


I don't think she is happy with the no sex part, either. And when she is ready, they will move beyond that, together.

Again, I trust in her love and in her maturity. @heartbroken50 is a very nice lady.

And really, @MrHB50, you are a nice person, too. That is why you and she are together. Water seeks its own level.

To be sure, you did not treat your wife the way you yourself would like to be treated. I think you have learned from that. And I think your wife is learning some things about herself, too, from this experience, that will strengthen her for the future.

For the encouragement of you both, as you work through this, remember that a dark cloud, even one as hurtful as this, can have a silver lining.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Happy about sex, mature and being a"nice lady" are all red herrings. Then you basically repeated what I said, with your typical rewording.

He hasn't learned yet, he is trying to learn which is a HUGE difference. That is why he is here.
Like I said earlier when he loses the checklist, they'll start to heal. 
When he loses the timeline they will start to heal. 
When he loses the comparison of what he would do in her place, they'll start to heal.

Honestly, when he stops being selfish they will start to heal.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Awesome and it changes nothing about what I posted. If she is giving him the cold shoulder and isn't letting him sex her out of her growing, good for her. Part of growing is making adult decisions which may be good for you and not someone else.


I can't even imagine how much better my marriage would be if I had been brave enough to kick my H out of our bedroom - ever! - in 36 years because of what he's done to hurt me. If I had taken away his most important thing, sex, until he finally LISTENED to me and actually tried to put himself in my shoes.

But I never did, so he never learned. And I sacrificed.

I am proud that she kicked him out. Why? Because if he suffered no consequences, he was psychologically predetermined to NOT LEARN and NOT IMPROVE. Psychologically, we humans NEED something to strive for, for it to matter. Many former waywards have later thanked their BS for being strong enough to not give in, and wait it out until the former WS had to do the hard work to figure things out.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yep. It oozes through all of his posts. 
I did chores=sex.
I gave you flowers=sex.
I helped more even though I am sick=sex.


Sorry for being blunt, but caregivers sacrifice their happiness, their lives and their fun to care for the sick. They do it out of love and then some get slapped in the face with a dose of reality. Then they sit back thinking "what did I do wrong," "what didn't I give this person why why why why why." If they grow, they learn they weren't the selfish one, it was their spoiled spouse. My uncle died of colon cancer so, I am not saying it is easy. Still, I'm not giving you a pass because you faced your own possible mortality. Hopefully, you live a long life. It isn't exactly the same, but she has to face your potential mortality as well. She could have easily copped out, tried or successfully cheated and then blamed you for being sick. She didn't. She could have thrown her hands up in the air and said "NO WAY" and left you. She didn't. 

This is the part you have to UNDERSTAND and LEARN, no one owes you ANYTHING in this world. Many people talk about vows, promises, marriages and laws, but at the end of the day it is the people behind those words which make them matter. Your wife CHOSE, vows or not, to do her best by you because she made a CHOICE out of love to help you. You should return the favor by LEARNING and understanding not just hearing.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

While sex can help stremgthen a marital bond, you need to realize that betraying her in a sexual way she’s going to have bad feelings for a while ABOUT sex. You used her body after getting excited by another woman. So she’s automatically going to think that WHEN you have sex, you are thinking about this OW. Unfortunately, that may NEVER go away. I can tell you that it lessens to a point where you don’t think of it as much, or you’re able to push the thoughts out of your head quickly or you’re able to tell yourself it’s not true, but they never completely go away. 

For now, you have a hand. 

My husband didn’t physically cheat on me Mr. HB. He had an EA. I suspect it went PA but no proof. I STILL have mind movies of him having sex with her when we have sex! And I have absolutely zero PROOF he ever touched her physically or sexted with her. Your wife had hard proof that you admitted to. I’m sure that means it’s 100X worse for her than it is for me. All I have is my rampant suspicions and thoughts and anxieties. Your wife SAW it. 

I had a one night stand PA on my husband. I gave his best friend a 30 second BJ not to completion. He just told me a week ago he still thinks about it when we mess around. And I came clean just shy of a YEAR ago in 3 weeks. 

Even when you DO get sex OP, it’s going to hurt your wife. It’s going to hurt BAD. With time the pain will lessen, but it’s going to be a long time before it lessens to a point that’s manageable. You want sex for pleasure, but to her, the sex will ONLY be about her emotions, for quite some time.


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## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

@MrHB50 There are things said by you and some by other posters that makes me want to take another stab at this. You have an amazing opportunity. Imagine if you had a fairly fool proof way to provide funds for your family when you are gone. What if it was an investment that would last the lifetime of your children and perhaps re-invested in your grand children. This gamble would require that you take a personal risk. It could cause you pain. Would you do it?

I think you would. Before you ever got here your lovely wife was kind in describing you. She related that when you were diagnosed all you could think about was her and your children. Your focus was on financially securing their future. Some of this could be related to not wishing to be a burden.

Right now you have the opportunity to secure your legacy in a different way. By taking on the challenge of your current shortcoming and truly being a different, better man. Rather than muddling through your pain, lack of sex/affection and personal disappointment you can rise above it. Take this 'thing' on, rip it apart and destroy it. You own it. You handle it.

Leave no doubt as to your love for your wife and kids. It will not be easy or painless but the result is an amazing gift to all of them. This legacy will endure longer and be more meaningful than financial security. 

Everyone is telling you to read books. Sorry, but here's another one. https://www.amazon.com/Pit-Lion-Snowy-Day-Opportunity/dp/1590527151 Don't regret the opportunities lost, chase them.

~ Passio


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> While sex can help stremgthen a marital bond, you need to realize that betraying her in a sexual way she’s going to have bad feelings for a while ABOUT sex. You used her body after getting excited by another woman. So she’s automatically going to think that WHEN you have sex, you are thinking about this OW. Unfortunately, that may NEVER go away. I can tell you that it lessens to a point where you don’t think of it as much, or you’re able to push the thoughts out of your head quickly or you’re able to tell yourself it’s not true, but they never completely go away.
> 
> For now, you have a hand.
> 
> ...


*QFT*

Couldn't have said it better myself.

That said, my understanding is you have a diagnosis that is not terribly good. I hope you and your wife can find a way to be happy for the remaining time as I would hate to see you two end bitterly and with regrets. I'm rooting for your marriage.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

@MrHB50 someone upthread asked something about what kind of legacy you'll be leaving when you pass.

I ask you: do you really want to leave a legacy of j*cking off and sexting with another woman? Because I fear that's what your wife will be left with. It's doubtful it'll be about all of the fond memories of your life together, your wonderful children, the hard work both of you put into a great relationship despite your many trials and tribulations. 

Do you see that's all been erased by what you have done? Or at the very least, put on the far back burner? Do you really want to leave your loving and devoted family with that sort of legacy? You've cheapened your life together.

I remember your wife initially talking about things you wanted to do together-a bucket list. And you both were doing them. Do you see that might be totally off her radar now? She is questioning everything. She's questioning if she ever really knew you. So, for six months of sexting, you've compromised everything.

Second, what's with these disparaging comments about her appearance? And the "so is this going to be your new thing now?" comment when she met a GF for a drink? What is your motivation for saying these things to her? Do you realize that the top she was wearing that night was one of your favorites? And that she hadn't been able to fit into it since before you got diagnosed? That was a perfect opportunity to buoy her up. But you did the opposite.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

@MrHB50 Would you like to start a new thread? Perhaps the title of this one is not an accurate reflection of how you feel now. It might help to break from this thread and the reactions your OP provoked. You may get more supportive and encouraging assistance. 

You have been battered and bruised and although your attitude invited the harsh reactions, we want you and Mrs HB50 to R and be happy together. I think there is enough love in your relationship to get to a good place. There is also insensitivity, laziness, lack of empathy and compassion. 

It takes time to overcome lifelong habits. Being aware that they are there and making a sincere effort to change will work in your favor. 

How can we help you get where you want to be? What stands in the way of making the changes Mrs HB needs to see in order to R with you? What do you feel about her request for change, is it more that you are able to do?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> @MrHB50 Would you like to start a new thread? Perhaps the title of this one is not an accurate reflection of how you feel now. It might help to break from this thread and the reactions your OP provoked. You may get more supportive and encouraging assistance.
> 
> You have been battered and bruised and although your attitude invited the harsh reactions, we want you and Mrs HB50 to R and be happy together. I think there is enough love in your relationship to get to a good place. There is also insensitivity, laziness, lack of empathy and compassion.
> 
> ...


Speaking with my moderator hat on, I think that it would be helpful to stick to one thread at this point.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Having sex without truly trusting and being over his infidelity is the absolute worst thing Mrs. HB50 could ever do. Sex without trust and respect is demeaning, and she's been used enough by you.

-and please, giving you the cold shoulder.
heck of a lot kinder and less financially costly than a divorce.
She thinks SHE can fix YOUR issues. Shame on you for letting her believe that.
This is on YOU.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, you've said a couple times that you have never, before now, considered anything other than sexual intercourse to be cheating. So, have you ever before done anything like what your wife caught you at now? Ever had a sexting relationship with another woman before now? Ever had a friendship, online or in person, with another woman that was intensely flirtatious and overtly sexually explicit but never actually ended up having sex? Ever had a "harmless" crush on a co-worker, employee, friend, or ex that you spent a lot of time talking to and engaging with? Do you discuss your marriage and/or your wife's failings with female friends? Ever have interactions with women that you hid from you wife or edited for content or minimized when discussing with her?

I ask because people who think anything short of actual PIV sex is not cheating tend to have pretty poor boundaries with the opposite sex. Many seem to feel that anything that their spouse doesn't know about is just harmless fun and none of their partner's business. I'm wondering if this is really a one-off event, or if there's actually been a pattern of inappropriate and wayward behavior throughout your life/marriage, but this is simply the first time you've 'gotten in trouble' for it?

That mindset might help explain why you still don't seem to get it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rowan said:


> OP, you've said a couple times that you have never, before now, considered anything other than sexual intercourse to be cheating. So, have you ever before done anything like what your wife caught you at now? Ever had a sexting relationship with another woman before now? Ever had a friendship, online or in person, with another woman that was intensely flirtatious and overtly sexually explicit but never actually ended up having sex? Ever had a "harmless" crush on a co-worker, employee, friend, or ex that you spent a lot of time talking to and engaging with? Do you discuss your marriage and/or your wife's failings with female friends? Ever have interactions with women that you hid from you wife or edited for content or minimized when discussing with her?
> 
> I ask because people who think anything short of actual PIV sex is not cheating tend to have pretty poor boundaries with the opposite sex. Many seem to feel that anything that their spouse doesn't know about is just harmless fun and none of their partner's business. I'm wondering if this is really a one-off event, or if there's actually been a pattern of inappropriate and wayward behavior throughout your life/marriage, but this is simply the first time you've 'gotten in trouble' for it?
> 
> That mindset might help explain why you still don't seem to get it.


This is such an excellent point, and now that you bring it up I'm surprised nobody has already mentioned it. 

Given his cavalier attitude it is likely this isn't his first rodeo.....only the first where he got caught.

I doubt he'd admit anything at this point given how much difficulty he's having facing any consequences for just this one, but it is something Mrs. Hb should consider.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

If you want to see how a husband SHOULD act when his wife catches him cybercheating, have a look at my story - the link is in my signature. She should have kicked your a$$ out when she found out what you did.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> This is such an excellent point, and now that you bring it up I'm surprised nobody has already mentioned it.
> 
> Given his cavalier attitude it is likely this isn't his first rodeo.....only the first where he got caught.
> 
> ...


Matt asked this twice early in the thread. MrHB did respond.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Matt asked this twice early in the thread. MrHB did respond.


OK thanks, I missed it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Quote by MrHB50
@driftingon- It appears you have not followed my W’s entire thread nor mine if you had you would know I have stage 4 colon cancer I may not even have 2-5 years left. You also mention that it appears my W is not inputting her opinions to my thread that is a decision she made when I decided to come to this forum, she is trying to let me have my own experience and discovery without giving her opinion. I believe if she has anything to say you can go to her private thread to see what she has to say. I am here trying to figure out how to be more empathetic, remorseful, loving to W and to enjoy her and my children for whatever time I do have left. Thanks for the 2x4’s




Mrhb

When you came onto this thread, and your title of this thread, was nothing but arrogance. You can be mad at me all day, you can even hate me, but I tried to show you that you have no clue what you did to your wife. Look at the posts above mine, look at what others have written on just this page alone. What do you call it? 

You may have cancer, but that is not a "I get to be an arrogant person and hurt people" because you have cancer. My father in law died from cancer last December, I have also lost two uncles, a grandmother, and friends due to cancer. In fact at noon yesterday I was told my former boss held his thirty four year old sons hand at 6:00am as he passed of brain cancer. My point is we all have crosses to bear, so Monday I will go to a wake and Tuesday the funeral. We all have hardships. 

As for you, you had a wife who became your caretaker, there whenever you needed her, and what do you do. Your wife valued your marriage, each of your vows, and took on the responsibility of your family without help from you. You couldn't help, you had to recover from your own medical issues. I understand that, really I do, I've seen many close persons as they went through treatment. 

After all your wife did, helping you to recover as best you could, you decide to cheat. I don't care what you lost as a reason, I don't want to know. You say you came here to learn empathy, how to help your wife heal, but your concern seemed to be sex. How posters have mentioned this? Some even think this isn't your first time! How do you view yourself? What do you see when you self reflect?

If you want to learn how to help your wife, I think that's great. But many of your posts don't reflect the words you actually write. Maybe you are starting to learn, as not all your posts reflect arrogance. As for the 2x4, maybe it was, or maybe you are perceived as either arrogant or entitled by myself and others. Maybe I'm the only one who sees you this way, maybe not, but you can't tell me your title doesn't scream arrogance. No matter if you want to change the title or not, that's the feeling you had. 

Best of luck to you and God bless.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I've kept up with your BW's thread and posted a few times. Each time I post it's because I am overwhelmed with empathy for her for the load she carries. She is one of the valiant ones among us. She loves and caretakes and gives selflessly. She is honest and loyal. It's easy to get this from her posts.

And as the years have gone on, she has had more and more dumped on her plate. She has children who are ill and require constant care and attention. She has built up her own business to make sure her family is secure. She is faced with a terminal diagnosis for the husband that she so honestly loves.

And she keeps going to do what is right through all of this. She keeps going, always taking care of the people she loves.

And then you BREAK HER HEART. You have BROKEN HER HEART.

She's been dancing as fast as she can - all out of love and loyalty - and you just blithely turn off the music. She no longer sees the reason to keep dancing. Why should see?

I think that until you start to find remorse by understanding that you have carelessly broken the heart of the woman you share your life with, you will never recover your marriage.

You have to feel her pain. She DESERVES for you to come out of yourself and feel her heartbreak. Until you stop imprinting your own inadequate views on the seriousness of this, you will have no reconciliation.

Her pain is real and justified. If you love her as you say, you will find a way to dig deep and 'get it.'


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Hi Mr. 

If you want, make of list of what you are doing to repair this. We can tell you if that is right or needs revision. 

Or do you want us to tell you actions to do?

Just saying you get it does not work. 

We are here for you. 

BTW. If i was you i would work on those worksheets before watching the Patriots game. Don't send the message that football is more important than your marriage, or your wife. 

This is all about actions or lack of action. 

I think we beat you up enough. Now what do you want next?


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## Tabitha (Jun 17, 2014)

You made another woman feel more wanted than you wanted your wife. Your wife knows this other woman knew that, had that power. That’s humiliating to her. I think for your wife, this is some part of it—knowing that someone out there KNOWS you didn’t put your wife first. You elevated ANOTHER WOMAN over your wife. A wife should NEVER have to “share” you in any intimate way like that, sexually OR emotionally. A wife wants to be the only one on that kind of “pedestal”—NO sharing (I’m not talking about general relationships, like with mom, daughters, sisters, etc.). 

You broke her heart. You disrespected her and your marriage. Here she was—carrying a big burden of taking care of raising the children, her own business, worry over your health…..and there you lay on the sofa, sexting another woman. You’re lucky you still have her. And yeah, she’ll put you through the ringer for it because you betrayed her trust and ideal of you. Men and women process things differently, so don’t be surprised at how long this “uncomfortableness” lasts for you. You’ve forever changed her heart, and she’s still rearranging those pieces. You’ll never be the same to her in her mind, no matter what you do. You’ll never get that trust back. So, if she has to deal with it in her head, then you’re just going to have to suck it up and deal with her if you want to remain in the marriage. Good luck. You CAN come out stronger, though, but it takes work…….


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Rowan said:


> OP, you've said a couple times that you have never, before now, considered anything other than sexual intercourse to be cheating. So, have you ever before done anything like what your wife caught you at now? Ever had a sexting relationship with another woman before now? Ever had a friendship, online or in person, with another woman that was intensely flirtatious and overtly sexually explicit but never actually ended up having sex? Ever had a "harmless" crush on a co-worker, employee, friend, or ex that you spent a lot of time talking to and engaging with? Do you discuss your marriage and/or your wife's failings with female friends? Ever have interactions with women that you hid from you wife or edited for content or minimized when discussing with her?
> 
> I ask because people who think anything short of actual PIV sex is not cheating tend to have pretty poor boundaries with the opposite sex. Many seem to feel that anything that their spouse doesn't know about is just harmless fun and none of their partner's business. I'm wondering if this is really a one-off event, or if there's actually been a pattern of inappropriate and wayward behavior throughout your life/marriage, but this is simply the first time you've 'gotten in trouble' for it?
> 
> That mindset might help explain why you still don't seem to get it.


Trust me, go read her thread. If it is too long, just the last 7 days. VERY eye opening.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By OP
> I love my wife so much. She has stood by me through layoffs, a failed business, bankruptcy and foreclosure. And of course she has been right by my side with my cancer treatment and surgeries. She is unwaveringly selfless, loving, loyal to those she loves, generous, smart, funny and beautiful inside and out.




Reply by Blunt:

If you are really serious about R with your wife then do this. 

*Take ACTIONS every day so that you can try and match what your wife is as you have described above*. Failure to do so means that you are mostly just words without the right amount of actions (All hat and no cattle?)


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Hi Mr.

It is not a good day. The Saints lost and the Patriots won. Ok. Let's put that aside. Back to what really matters.....

There is another active thread here started by a young lady, SAHM, with little three boys. Husband did some online things with another woman. Short story, he is being a d**k - saying the wrong things, doing the wrong things - and the young woman is near the point of leaving him. (That story is still unfolding.) So it can and does happen. Spouses do leave for this or even less than this. Yes, you were not meeting a woman in a hotel room for 5 years. But this is not a scorecard. One person's "I don't think that is too bad" is another person's "I kicked him out the door and divorced him".

You can probably helped heal this by being truly remorseful and having your actions follow your words. This is not a power struggle. Do not fight with your life partner of 20+ years. Your have three great boys. When they are your age, they will not remember or care you makes the money (you BOTH did at various times). But they will remember who cared about them, and which one cared about their other parent. Be a man of honor. Don't let your ego get in the way of working on this marriage.

A leader of the family knows when they made a mistake and works to fix it. A leader does not fight a losing cause. Be a leader to your boys. And to your wife. 

Can you swallow your pride, check your ego and be a leader?

BTW, I don't know it all. I screwed up. Badly. I am still working to fix what I did. I am here to both help and to learn. It does not get fixed in one day, but you must work to have each day better than the prior day. Don't let this situation spiral out of control. This site is littered with far too many people that let their pride contribute to ending their marriage.

FWIW I have learned from you. You and the family have endured hardships that probably would have crushed me. But you persevered. You found the strength to go on. Find your inner strength again!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@MrHB50 Some plain talking, now.

At some point within the next several years, your wife will lose you.

You, however, decided that you would make sure that your wife would lose a substantial part of you, early.

You took the emotional component of your relationship and you gave it to someone else.

The woman who loved you, looked after you while you were ill, took care of business and took care of the children that you made with her, you took all of that and you flushed it all down the toilet.

You have some heavy lifting to do. Some *very* heavy lifting.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I'd be surprised if you come back here, but just in case...
It appears that you came here for justification of your actions. When you didn't get it you blame shifted your wife's pain by saying that TAM is making her upset, rather than you. That's messed up. You are completely at fault for your wife's current state of being. That is an assh0le move on your part. First you betray her, then you say she feels bad because we made her feel bad. Really low there. You are unwilling to own what your terrible behavior has done to your already maxed out wife.

You are not the only one who is ill. Your wife has lupus. That is no small thing, especially when it comes to doing the kind of job that your wife is doing to support the family. Stress plays a role in lupus, yet you place another huge loadstone on your wife. Something is seriously wrong with your character to be pulling that kind of evil on your wife. She doesn't deserve to be treated like you are treating her. She deserves to be loved and appreciated. I wouldn't blame her if she did kick you out. You have added insult to injury. You need to get your head out of the dark recesses of your


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

*Quote:* What I’m struggling with now is that my W is not making it easy for me to fix what I did. 
She is not suppose to make it easier on you, you are suppose to make it easier on her. 

*Quote:* I don’t think what I did was that bad. 
Yes it is.

*Quote:* She made me tell my sister, our clergy, and W told 2 friends and my FIL. Isn’t that enough of a penance? 
That is called accountability. 

*Quote:* She kicked me out of my bed... our dog has better accommodations! 
That is because he has proven to be more loyal. 

*Quote:* I think I understand where W is coming from but she doesn’t feel that I’m getting it.
You can't just say my bad and it is over. You have to prove that you are a trust worthy person again, that takes time. There are no short cuts to reconciliation, it takes time and patience. I guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot, you would understand her position better. I believe that you will get there if you keep trying, but you have a long row to hoe.


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## Sephirox (Sep 18, 2016)

Definitely inappropriate behavior, and having sexual conversations with someone other than your wife is definitely grounds for an EA. Honestly after reading your first post I felt that there was no remorse or any type of desire to make amends and take the initiative to make this up to your wife, but you need to be accountable for yourself and your actions and I really hope you work things out and make amends with your wife


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

Very enlightening thread as I am in a situation somewhat similar to MrHB. I learned from this and am doing my best to make amends for my mistakes. There are some complicating factors, but let it suffice to say that I understand and will do my best to re-earn her trust and grow from this.

Please keep us in your thoughts.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Shades of Gray said:


> Very enlightening thread as I am in a situation somewhat similar to MrHB. I learned from this and am doing my best to make amends for my mistakes. There are some complicating factors, but let it suffice to say that I understand and will do my best to re-earn her trust and grow from this.
> 
> 
> 
> Please keep us in your thoughts.



@Shades of Gray you should start a thread and seek help and 2x4's . Seriously thiugh


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shades of Gray (Sep 20, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @Shades of Gray you should start a thread and seek help and 2x4's . Seriously thiugh
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely feeling the 2x4s from my wife and the counselors. Reading this thread has changed/altered my perspective. I feel terrible about what I have done...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shades of Gray said:


> Definitely feeling the 2x4s from my wife and the counselors. Reading this thread has changed/altered my perspective. I feel terrible about what I have done...


Then you are being a man about it all.

Best wishes to you and your wife.

If you need to talk more on TAM about your problems, please stop by and start your own thread.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Shades of Gray said:


> Definitely feeling the 2x4s from my wife and the counselors. Reading this thread has changed/altered my perspective. I feel terrible about what I have done...




I've been there too. It really does help to tell your story. You get move help than using just a counselor.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I firmly believe that @MrHB50 knew from very early on that what he did was wrong and was potentially bad enough to destroy his family.

*But he went ahead and did it, any way.*

But wait! Isn't MrHB50 a good guy?

Yes, he is. So, how could he have done something so terrible, so bad?

It couldn't have been his fault, could it?

"Aha!" shouts MrHB50 to himself in a moment of a false epiphany! "If it wasn't my fault, then it must have been the fault of... my wife!"

That is wrong. So wrong that it defies all normal logic.

But we have seen this type of arrant, arrogant lying, illogical nonsense before. MrHB50 is running to the cheater script in all its horrible dirty, tackiness.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

IMO this is a "just happened". He started something. It snowballed. He did not plan it nor think about consequences. 

He did not wake up one day and say "Today I will destroy the marriage"

Once exposed and his wife reacted, Mr spiraled out of control. 

Very sad story because his actions post d-day were more damaging (imo) than the sexting. 

No cheater's handbook. Just a sad story.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Shades of Gray said:


> Definitely feeling the 2x4s from my wife and the counselors. Reading this thread has changed/altered my perspective. I feel terrible about what I have done...


Then it has helped someone, which is what this place is all about, just not the OP apparently... Because he seems less interested in improvement than you. 

This is why even sad ending posts should get saved, stickied, etc. People DO come here and learn from others.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> IMO this is a "just happened". He started something. It snowballed. He did not plan it nor think about consequences.
> 
> He did not wake up one day and say "Today I will destroy the marriage"
> 
> ...


Six months with multiple women is not a "just happened"


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

TheTruthHurts said:


> [MENTION=261154]Shades of Gray you should start a thread and seek help and 2x4's . Seriously thiugh


I certainly did not find this thread inspiring me to open up to this forum. Unmitigated bash fest would be an accurate descriptor. And for some unfathomable reason no one gave the OP the advice that he needed.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Mr. Nail said:


> I certainly did not find this thread inspiring me to open up to this forum. Unmitigated bash fest would be an accurate descriptor. And for some unfathomable reason no one gave the OP the advice that he needed.


I did give Mr advice he needed by PM. Several times.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Six months with multiple women is not a "just happened"


You missed the point of my post. It is not the time duration. It never is. I was referencing how it started. I understand how it started. He did not PLAN this. 

Once started, his internet escape world formed a bubble and (IMO) he kept the two worlds separate. It does not matter that it was 270 times he stepped into the bubble, nor that it was for 6 months. He had his bubble. And the feel good effects are really addictive. I still remember the high each time I got a text from my coworker. To this day, I still jump to look at each text to my phone. I miss the dopamine. 

I will concede to you that once he sought out Bubble #2 or #3 he actively decided his path. But if you view it as an addiction, it is not surprising. If he was addicted to internet pornography, would the situation or outcome be different? 

I know most of the posters on this thread here have been betrayed in some fashion and most have no sympathy for a "cheater". And most will disagree with what I say next. IMO he was his own victim in this situation. He created an escape and was trapped in it.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ok Mr. 

I am going to make one more appeal to you.

We are the same age. I am married. I did something to betray my wife. I did NOT have sex with the other woman but that is not material to the betrayal. Stop looking at this from a guy's point of view. You need to understand that most women will see this differently than you. Your wife certainly does. And many guys too. 

I can understand what you did. Even sympathize. I get it, although most of the others do not. That is why I keep pushing here on your thread. 

IMO I am not an internet loser, weirdo or defective person. Just the opposite, but I did/do have one really really big problem. This site is a place where help can be found if AND ONLY IF you want to receive it.

You want this to go away. I did too. But reality is that it will not just go away. However, you can take actions to repair the damage. Not words, actions.

I hope you read this. Reach out to some of us. I have made some good friends here who have helped me, and I help some others. And yes, I have many real friends too who have helped, but I still found tremendous help from anonymous internet strangers. They can and will say what you need to hear. IRL friends may not do that.

Good luck.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> I certainly did not find this thread inspiring me to open up to this forum. Unmitigated bash fest would be an accurate descriptor. And for some unfathomable reason no one gave the OP the advice that he needed.


Your only post on this thread is to complain that people aren't giving advice that the OP needs.
In that post, you gave no advice and did not even address the OP.
Plenty of helpful advice has been given in this thread, along with people trying to reach the OP's heart, so he can get out of the situation he has created and heal his marriage.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> I certainly did not find this thread inspiring me to open up to this forum. Unmitigated bash fest would be an accurate descriptor. And for some unfathomable reason no one gave the OP the advice that he needed.


Not to be trite, but OP'S question was, was what he did really that bad. That was answered in spades . And some thought-provoking questions were asked of OP. I think that we have to illustrate to him first that YES it is that bad, before any advice would be seriously considered by him.

His attitude has gotten way worse and that's very discouraging. First, he must see and understand that what he did decimated the marriage.



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

lucy999 said:


> His attitude has gotten way worse and that's very discouraging. First, he must see and understand that what he did decimated the marriage.


In his defensive for his lack of presence here, TAM can be and is really hard on waywards. And TAM does not differentiate too much sexting from EAs or from full PIVs. 

I was here for three months before I posted my story and knew what to expect.

Mr. not only knew nothing about TAM, but came here as a severe underdog - not just as a wayward, but coming here after his wife posted her side.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> In his defensive for his lack of presence here, TAM can be and is really hard on waywards. And TAM does not differentiate too much sexting from EAs or from full PIVs.
> 
> I was here for three months before I posted my story and knew what to expect.
> 
> Mr. not only knew nothing about TAM, but came here as a severe underdog - not just as a wayward, but coming here after his wife posted her side.


True. I can't argue with that. But this was his chance to really dig deep and attempt to "get it". His flip attitude isnt serving him well.

You, on the other hand, have grown by leaps and bounds in your understanding. 

It was an opportunity for him, just like it was/is for you. 



Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> And TAM does not differentiate too much sexting from EAs or from full PIVs.


Nor does his wife according to her thread. 

TAM is not the problem.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

His wife informed him of TAM, encouraged him to post and told him how it would be. Wat he didn't expect was men and women, some of which have never dealt with cheating, to agree with his wife this vehemently. He expected delineation like Blueinbr keeps posting.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If TAM posters were hard on the OP, it could be because it was easy to tell that he didn't really get it. Sure, he mouthed some words about realizing it was cheating but he didn't really believe it was. He still believes it was only inappropriate texting and his wife has blown everything out of proportion. He values his ego and pride more than his wife.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> If TAM posters were hard on the OP, it could be because it was easy to tell that he didn't really get it. Sure, he mouthed some words about realizing it was cheating but he didn't really believe it was. He still believes it was only inappropriate texting and his wife has blown everything out of proportion. He values his ego and pride more than his wife.


Yes. And now he had said similar to his three impressionable boys.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I wonder if OP ever thought that his sexting partner could have been a 16 year old.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If you're still reading on here, OP - I've been following your story in your wife's thread, and my heart goes out to you both. I'm sorry about your diagnosis, and I'm of the opinion, that maybe you just lost a sense of reality and what really is valuable since finding it out. Your wife seems to be a very special person, and I hope that you realize what you have in your family. Praying for you guys.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> If you're still reading on here, OP - I've been following your story in your wife's thread, and my heart goes out to you both. I'm sorry about your diagnosis, and I'm of the opinion, that maybe you just lost a sense of reality and what really is valuable since finding it out. Your wife seems to be a very special person, and I hope that you realize what you have in your family. Praying for you guys.




I doubt he is here. Thursday night football and the Patriots are playing. 

He knows his priorities.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> I doubt he is here. Thursday night football and the Patriots are playing.
> 
> He knows his priorities.


Sadly, I think you might not be far from the truth.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Remeber that woman "Wishes" who posted here? I was reading SI a couple of months ago. You all beat her down so bad, her husband Donegone took her back. In that case destroying a wayward backfired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Jus260 said:


> Remeber that woman "Wishes" who posted here? I was reading SI a couple of months ago. You all beat her down so bad, her husband Donegone took her back. In that case destroying a wayward backfired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




How is that a backfire?

We want them back together, in a healthy way.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

to be honest, I don't believe for one minute that anyone here has the power to run off anyone else. The ones that run away and blame others here for it is because they are used to shifting blame on others. This sadly is typical of a lot of WWS. It is part of the problem.  They are behaving cowardly even when they ask for help because in reality they don't want to change. They just want the problem that they created, mind you, to simply go away...rug sweep like we say here.

NO ONE has that much POWER over ANYONE else! I would suggest that posters around here stop trying to attach too much power to others. It's wrong and very dysfunctional to think this way. The WWS that come here are not innocent children that can be peer pressured or forced to anything. They just love to blame shift for their lack of restraint and unfortunately some members here adhere to that ridiculous mentality.

So next time a poster comes and posts here and plays ball so to speak, and then decides he/she doesn't like ALL the rules and simply takes his/her ball home and leaves kicking and screaming that some folks around here made them leave....pleeze! The immaturity of it all is mind boggling! What are they 10?

The OP in this poster is no different, just happens to be deadly ill when he chose to cheat on his spouse. WWS make bad choices and most continue to make them for a long time. An online forum is not going to sway them from their path if they don't want to truly save what they themselves destroyed in the first place! 

What happened to the phrase "WE CAN ONLY CONTROL OURSELVES?", which is very true by the way; therefore it is ridiculous to think we have the power to run off others!

Well then we might as well believe in Super Powers, as it seems that some members here possess "mind control"...evil grin


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jus260 said:


> Remeber that woman "Wishes" who posted here? I was reading SI a couple of months ago. You all beat her down so bad, her husband Donegone took her back. In that case destroying a wayward backfired.


Sucker.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

blueinbr said:


> How is that a backfire?
> 
> We want them back together, in a healthy way.


Healthy and apart would be better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I think he hoped we would say to HB50 "We agree with your husband. What he did wasn't that bad! You should forgive him!"

And with plenty of platitudes like "Move on, honey. Give him his space! Boys will be boys!" And some such other scrapings of the bilge tank. 

But even if what he did wasn't THAT bad, it was still plenty bad enough!

The trouble with her husband is that he seems to have a weird outlook on life. 

If someone had killed a person and they had only meant to injure them, her husband's attitude would be: "They never meant to kill them. And as they only killed one person and they aren't as bad as a serial killer, I say we let them off!"

I say the punishment should fit the crime.

But if the criminal will not recognise that they committed a crime, things could get a little bit tense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> I think he hoped we would say to HB50 "We agree with your husband. What he did wasn't that bad! You should forgive him!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Or worse. He is committing more "crimes" while on bail.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Or worse. He is committing more "crimes" while on bail.


:iagree:


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> Or worse. He is committing more "crimes" while on bail.




Or there were more before this one. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Ceegee said:


> Or there were more before this one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I totally agree. This time he got caught...that's the only difference.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

In this case, the sad fact is OP really only has to do one or two things, but he seems too prideful to do them.

Just accept that he put the marriage on a death spiral through his actions, and stop minimizing

I believe @heartbroken50 coukd work with that. But OP refuses to do the bare minimum. 

He could literally pass with a D- but won't do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Although my H does accept that his EA was VERY wrong (His EA was with his ex coworker mistress from over a decade ago.) he has recently stated...

"Normal people just get over it & let it go. They don't stay miserable & read the bitter losers on forums to keep the pain alive!"

....I wish I was one of those people who could quickly snap back with the truth, "No! Most 'normal' people get divorced!!!". 

I believe that adultery is one of those things that you can never truly understand until they've been a BS. EA's are even harder to 'get'. I know that I would find a ONS far, far easier to deal with. Even sex for the sake of it I can comprehend BUT an EA?? It's brutal. I've experienced all of those forms of cheating. Knowing that the love of my life could sit, with our toddler girl on his lap, writing THOSE WORDS to his OW is shattering!! 

I can imagine knowing that my love could be being 'fluffed' by his OW, roll over & instigate sex with me!! OMG! How can one get past that?

My H has also been incredibly angry, bitter & passive aggressive. It's about guilt & pride. My H has never taken any form of criticism maturely. 

This story is all the more heart breaking because time is so limited due to his health. I'm a chronic pain sufferer who has damaged internal organs as a result of becoming septic AND I've been diagnosed with 2 kinds of cancer. 1 is now in remission. Mortality changes you in so many ways. Like the OP's wife I considered my H to be my best friend. I've spent my entire adult life loving him. I think it would of been different if we had a 'bad marriage'. The further you fall the more it hurts!!

I TRULY hope that he is still reading this thread but I doubt that he is. It's so bloody tragic! I'm haunted by the fact that 'Our love story' has forever been tarnished....more by his words & behavior than the actual EA!! Even if I can find a way to forgive his affair how do I even start to wrap my head around the cruelty, lack of empathy & compassion? How can my love, my best friend, my FAMILY treat me with such utter contempt?? Some of the things he's said will haunt me until I die. He must of HATED me to look into my tear drenched face & dig the knife in even deeper just to protect his fragile ego?

All love stories have a beginning, a middle & an end. Knowing what the end will be & knowing it will be soon does change things. I wish that the OP could just swallow his pride, stop being driven by selfish, self righteous nonsense. His wife writes about loosing her love, feelings for him. I know what that feels like BUT the day he dies, no matter where he is or what the state of their relationship is in she will be broken. That little family will be consumed by this forever! 

WHY WHY WHY can't he see what he's doing? He is changing, fundamentally changing each & ever member of HIS family. WHY can't he give his everything to make these final years something they can draw strength & pleasurable memories from? 

OP PLEASE BE READING!!

This is your legacy. This is what will fill your mind in your final days laying waiting for the end. The true value of life will hit you. I've been there & although my life didn't flash before my eyes I did see so many of the moments, the people, the love. 

At that time in my life I was at peace. I believed, blind faith, not a second of doubt that I had my little family & it was wonderful. The warmth & security of being 'one', truly loved, was the greatest comfort. It took my H less than 4 months from my emergency, life saving surgery for my H to ask the OW to open a secret account for them to communicate without my knowledge. She said "Hi" on linked-in & it took him a week to reply. In that week he decided that it was worth stripping me of everything I held dear in my life. One week to choose to shatter me into a million pieces.

Just because "It's only words" doesn't change anything. Think about how many things are only words?!?!? "Will you marry me?", "I love you", "You have cancer", "were pregnant!", "Its a boy!", "You are so hot!". ONLY WORDS!!


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> Although my H does accept that his EA was VERY wrong (His EA was with his ex coworker mistress from over a decade ago.) he has recently stated...
> 
> "Normal people just get over it & let it go. They don't stay miserable & read the bitter losers on forums to keep the pain alive!"
> 
> ...





Brokenlady

I like you, and I really don't mean to speak harshly of your husband, but I couldn't just let his comments about an Internet forum go without a response. Please give this message to your husband one way or another. Mrhb maybe this will help you too. 

Obviously if you are reading this your spouse has come here to comprehend what has happened. The marriage has been bombed and the one who was betrayed is left standing on jello. They are looking around them but don't see anything familiar, although they are in their own living room which they could walk through blindly before you detonated the bomb. Trust has now become a word that they both snicker and cry at. All because the one they loved so much has hurt them like they could never fathom. 

Some people need to go to therapy, some are diagnosed with PTSD, yes, PTSD is what your actions have inflicted. You have destroyed your spouse to the core, try to imagine being destroyed to your core. I'm sure you think you can relate, I'm sure you think you understand how your spouse feels, but you really don't. It's not your fault and I'm not saying you are cold or heartless, it's just something you don't understand. I pray that you actually never feel this pain, this confusion, this feeling of feeling lost, and knowing trust doesn't exist. It's truly brutal, it kills you on the inside yet you breathe, you feel even more pain, and you wonder how to survive to see the next day. 

What I have touched on is just a small part of how infidelity feels. I haven't even mentioned what it's like to look at you. How you could never think you would one day truly hate what you loved the most, how you think you shared your bed with them and slept being at your most vulnerable. But we do, and as hard as it can be we haven't told you to take your sorry a$$ to some other house. No we endure and look straight at you, trying to figure out where the real you is, except the real you is right there, always have been. We just never saw or could think that you would ever be so arrogant to cheat. And now that you have, you expect us to just forgive and continue loving you like nothing really happened. 

This is where I just can't understand your method of thinking. Forget trying to think of your spouse who cheated and how you would feel, but how do you think this is nothing? How do you think it wasn't that bad? With this method of thinking I'm thinking you wear headphones twenty four hours a day, and every five seconds you hear "breathe in". I'm not trying to make fun of you, I'm not trying to say you have no intelligence, but I am saying you are lacking in something. Lacking in what I can't really say, I don't know you after all, but you sure fooled some very kind and honorable spouses. Maybe that is what you are best at, living life like a sheep in wolfs clothing. 

I would hope, for the sake of your spouse, you either engage your marriage with every ounce of your being or tell them you are not capable of being a human being. Comments of was what I did that bad, or why do you seek company of those on the Internet to remind you of the pain will cease. You see, we all came here because the only person who can truly understand how we feel is another betrayed spouse. We are the ones who get how your spouse feels, we get that PTSD and lost feelings that you don't. We offer help to each other because of what we've gone through to get better. Yet all this time your spouse has allowed you to stay in a warm house, to be with your family, to have a roof over your head, to have a cup of coffee in the morning at YOUR kitchen table. We do this even though we feel the most excruciating pain, even though we look at you and wonder who you are, and we try to recover enough to get to the next day. 

I truly hope one day you get what I'm saying to you now, that you understand the choice you made and why. Then I hope you cherish your spouse as you should have before you did the unthinkable. Then, then I hope you never say anything about the person your spouse has never met who saved them from such uncertainty. Sometimes help comes from the most unlikely of ways, and the spouse you cheated on who has had to come here never should have been here. But they are here because of you, and even though this may hurt its something you need to own, we are here because of actions like yours. So look in the mirror, look at yourself really well, you are now looking at the problem in your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Bibi1031 said:


> I totally agree. This time he got caught...that's the only difference.




So you don't believe the poly results?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> So you don't believe the poly results?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A polygraph session will only work if the right questions are asked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Jus260 said:


> Remeber that woman "Wishes" who posted here? I was reading SI a couple of months ago. You all beat her down so bad, her husband Donegone took her back. In that case destroying a wayward backfired.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He did not take her back because she got a "beat-down." 

He took her back because he CHOSE to.

That choice is all on him. It's still early days. Time will tell.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Satya said:


> He did not take her back because she got a "beat-down."
> 
> He took her back because he CHOSE to.
> 
> That choice is all on him. It's still early days. Time will tell.




I recall @Wishes was quite remorseful and I believe she was a genuinely good person. I realize formerly betrayed often see things in black and white, but life is full of nuance. I believe she was working on issues from her past based on recommendations from some here at TAM. I do wish her well and see her as among those who make R seem to be a feasible thing in some instances. Another is the former WW of lonely husband ##### (some number).

Btw I am not a former BS but I often line up with the 2x4's so am by no means a softy. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> My bet is that a large part of your wife's issue here is that you do not seem to get how wrong it was.
> 
> Did you actually sext with that woman or only talk a lot of dirty talk with her?
> 
> ...


Ah, HAH!

_This age old answer reels in more Large Mouth BSass then any other truism_.

The shoe on the other foot never fits. It does not apply......here.....not hear-ing the analogy.

Oh I know the excuses, wrong size, wrong gender shoe, "It's Different" brand of shoes that will not work for POSWH. Shoo get away....the truth hurts my *Case-Hardened Excuse*.

Her *Flame-Hardened rebuttal *shatters his Mettle.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

About 175 2x4 posts. 

I think it will be hard for him to come back here even if he is remorseful.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> About 175 2x4 posts.
> 
> I think it will be hard for him to come back here even if he is remorseful.


The title of the thread alone speaks volumes...IMNSHO.

I refrained from posting when he came to play ball because I knew the OP would not like ALL the rules and take his ball and not want to play anymore; and of course, some members here would give him the "victim" card of being run off...:surprise: 

His poor wife has been walking on eggshells with him for a very long time, that is not something any of us here or in real life should have to do...again, just MNSHO here...sigh.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

drifting on said:


> Brokenlady
> 
> I like you, and I really don't mean to speak harshly of your husband, but I couldn't just let his comments about an Internet forum go without a response. Please give this message to your husband one way or another. Mrhb maybe this will help you too.
> 
> ...


If you can read this as a WS and not have it reduce you to a pile on the floor for what you did. You are not human. You have no heart. Jesus @driftingon my heart just broke....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

@driftingon is an incredible communicator. He helped me when I posted here about my EA and I really appreciate the time he's taken to articulate things that no one can really imagine unless it happens to them.
Thank you.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

LosingHim said:


> If you can read this as a WS and not have it reduce you to a pile on the floor for what you did. You are not human. You have no heart. Jesus @driftingon my heart just broke....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Losinghim

I feel terrible that my post has caused you to feel as you do, but you understand what you have done. You have made great strides in your recovery, you have become a much better person overall. I posted this because brokenlady's husband and mrhb think people should just get over it. It's not so simple as you well know yourself firsthand. My apologies for causing you any negative feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

tigerlily99 said:


> @driftingon is an incredible communicator. He helped me when I posted here about my EA and I really appreciate the time he's taken to articulate things that no one can really imagine unless it happens to them.
> Thank you.




Thank you for the kind words tigerlilly, I am truly humbled by your words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> If TAM posters were hard on the OP, it could be because it was easy to tell that he didn't really get it. Sure, he mouthed some words about realizing it was cheating but he didn't really believe it was. He still believes it was only inappropriate texting and his wife has blown everything out of proportion. He values his ego and pride more than his wife.


So many prioritise their own discomfort due to cheating, betrayal, lying etc far above the hurt it causes to the other person.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sadly, Mr.HB50 still does not appear to comprehend that it was a big deal to his wife-who holds the only opinion that should matter.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Judged, sentenced, quartered and drawn. 2x4 after 2x4 sprinkled with a few helpful practical ideas on what to do. No matter what he said - how honest he was - the 2x4s keep coming even after he had his fill. Who would come back for more of that?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mary35 said:


> Judged, sentenced, quartered and drawn. 2x4 after 2x4 sprinkled with a few helpful practical ideas on what to do. No matter what he said - how honest he was - the 2x4s keep coming even after he had his fill. Who would come back for more of that?


How did people here know that MrHB50 was not genuinely contrite?

Well, the first clue was his whiny, self-justifying topic header: "Was What I Did Really That Bad?"

He got upset when the answer he got was not: "Of course it wasn't really that bad. In fact, it was all your silly wife's fault. She should forgive you. After all, boys will be boys, eh?"

And we all have one of these running, 24/7, whilst on TAM:-











You might like to install one.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

his wife told him to ask that question.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I never heard him get upset - it sounded more like he accepted what everyone was telling him.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mary35 said:


> his wife told him to ask that question.


What question?

And please give a specific quote.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mary35 said:


> I never heard him get upset - it sounded more like he accepted what everyone was telling him.


You didn't hear him get upset?:

So you must have been in their home and witnessed what was said by both sides?

This should be interesting.

Please tell us what you know.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> What question?
> 
> And please give a specific quote.


Deleted by request of administrator.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> You didn't hear him get upset?:
> 
> So you must have been in their home and witnessed what was said by both sides?
> 
> ...


hear=read

I read the same thing everyone else read. Your turn - please quote where he got upset with what was said?

We may have to agree to disagree on this. I see it differently than most do apparently. Maybe I am wrong. 

I am not excusing what he did - and how much pain and anguish this has caused his wife. But I do think that every single effort he made to make amends has been dismissed as not good enough whether is was to appease her and make things better, or truly was from his heart. Sometimes, when no matter what you do - the only feedback you get is it is not acceptable or good enough can cause one to get frustrated and angry. Especially if they feel they are really trying. 

I see another side to this story but it feels like no one is interested at looking at another side. Most here have already made up their mind. He has clearly been found guilty of everything he has been accused of by the majority of posters on both of their threads. So keep the 2x4s coming. It seems to be working so well in helping this couple stay married and get on a path of healing.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

mary35 said:


> hear=read
> 
> I am not excusing what he did - and how much pain and anguish this has caused his wife. But I do think that every single effort he made, to make amends has been dismissed as not good enough whether is was to appease her and make things better, or truly was from his heart. Sometimes, when no matter what you do - the only feedback you get is it is not acceptable or good enough can cause one to get frustrated and angry. Especially if they feel they are really trying.
> 
> I see another side to this story but no one is interested at looking at another side. Everyone has already made up their mind. He has clearly been found guilty of everything he has been accused of by the majority of posters on both of their threads. So keep the 2x4s coming. It seems to be working so well in helping this couple stay married and get on a path of healing.


Have you read the ENTIRE thread from HB?

I have been on "his" side. I stated as such. I offered him advice. I PM'd and offer whatever he needed. Nothing. He formed his own negative opinion of TAM long before he started posting. 

A person is judged by their actions, not just their words. His ACTIONS while he was posting were completely opposite to the great words he spoke. 

Based on what you wrote here and in the other thread, you seem to judge and form opinion more on appearance, rather than efforts and results. 

If you have not read HB's entire thread, do so, then comment again. Until then, you are basing your opinion on insufficient information.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mary35 said:


> hear=read
> 
> I read the same thing everyone else read. Your turn - please quote where he got upset with what was said?
> 
> ...


It is in the other thread. The one you admitted to not reading all the way through? 

Read the other thread. And then you will be able to make a valid, fact-based judgement.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I am bringing this in from another thread, because it directly contradicts what you are saying. In this thread you said this.



mary35 said:


> I read the same thing everyone else read. Your turn - please quote where he got upset with what was said?


But in another thread you said:



mary35 said:


> Please don't crucify me, this is an honest question. *While I have tried to skim most of the posts*, I admit I came in late and have not read them all.


So, no, you haven't read the same things that others have read. You didn't even skim all the posts, you only tried to. This means that you did not read all the posts and you don't have a clear picture of what those of us who have read them have.



mary35 said:


> Please dont take offense. Maybe my assumptions are wrong. I am just trying to understand.


What you are saying is offensive, because you didn't even read the thread through. In your posts you are commenting that it's normal for her to be hurt and upset, but she should give him a pass and it's understandable that he has become a completely self-centered person and she should let him have whatever he wants so this will all go away and they can be happy. 



mary35 said:


> I am not excusing what he did - and how much pain and anguish this has caused his wife. But I do think that every single effort he made to make amends has been dismissed as not good enough whether is was to appease her and make things better, or truly was from his heart. Sometimes, when no matter what you do - the only feedback you get is it is not acceptable or good enough can cause one to get frustrated and angry. Especially if they feel they are really trying.


This is not true. Every effort he has made has not been dismissed. Saying that completely changes what is really happening here. You are making a false statement and taking this whole discussion off topic into the direction of explaining to you what is clear if you read it for yourself. You are accusing @heartbroken50 of something that is not true and continuously posting from that perspective. That's harassment. You are harassing a woman who is already stressed and broken by turning it around on her and making her the one who is mistreating her husband when nothing could be further from the truth.


mary35 said:


> I see another side to this story but it feels like no one is interested at looking at another side. Most here have already made up their mind. He has clearly been found guilty of everything he has been accused of by the majority of posters on both of their threads. So keep the 2x4s coming. It seems to be working so well in helping this couple stay married and get on a path of healing.


 No you don't see another side to this story. You are making up another side to this story. You are rewriting what has been clearly stated by both Mr. and Mrs. HB50. Then you end your post with a sarcastic, passive/agressive statement. Your posts are out of line.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mary35 said:


> Post 687 in her thread
> 
> *{quote from private thread deleted. ~ EleGirl}*
> 
> Thus the title of this thread.


 @mary35

That bears no relation to the title of the thread. At all. Whatsoever. None. 

You seem to have totally misconstrued the whole dynamic of this situation.


I'll break the saga down for you. The Cliff Notes, if you like:-

*
Wife works hard to look after her children and at the same time, running her cake baking business, which was the sole source of the family's income, whilst also looking after her terminally ill husband.

Meanwhile, husband has an online Emotional Affair.

Wife finds out about his cheating and is, quite understandably, very hurt by it.

Husband cannot really understand why his wife is so upset.

Wife invites husband to TAM.

Husband cannot come to terms with the fact that the vast majority of people on TAM called him on his truly disgraceful behaviour, from my rather restrained and somewhat gentle chastisement to some more severe 2/4 work.

Husband blames his wife for taking away the fun and pleasure of his online affair, doing this in front of their horrified and now heartbroken children.*

There's more, but that's the basics and it's enough for now.


I hope that I have now enabled you to see why HB50's husband had very little support on TAM for his poor attitude and his shockingly bad behaviour.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

I started to go through and explain and defend myself but my computer crashed. Actually, I am glad it did - because really what I think, and what you all think about what I think is not important. What is important in my mind is that HB50's marriage is imploding and if they are to stop it, if they want to stop it - they BOTH need to get off the track they are BOTH on. And if people on TAM really want to help them try to save their marriage they will give advice on how to get off the destructive path they are on and give suggestions for a constructive path instead. 

For the record, when I first posted on HB50's thread, I had not read every single one of her posts and skimmed through them. Since then, I have read all of HB50's posts and have even gone back and reread them trying to see what I am missing. I skimmed through some of the other posters posts but did not read all of them.

And for the record - I never once told her to give him a pass. I have said over and over that what he did was wrong and hurtful and she was entitled to her feelings. He caused this problem and he needs to step up to the plate to work on fixing it with her. He has not been doing this very well since the Rabbi blow up and being kicked out of the marital bed. He has been really stupid and said really stupid things, and his behavior towards her that she has posted has been horrible since then. Her anger has justifiably been growing and she has withdrawn more and more from him for the purpose of self preservation. This is the track they are on - and this is the track they will stay on which will result in the end of the marriage if BOTH of them do not change tracks. This is how I see things differently. End of discussion as far as I am concerned.

And this is the end of my participation in this discussion and on her threads. I had no intent of hurting HB50 in any way, and if I am doing that in any way, and if my posts are coming across as harassment to her then I sincerely apologize to her and any one else I have offended.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

mary35 said:


> Post 687 in her thread
> 
> .......
> 
> Thus the title of this thread.


Do NOT take quotes from a thread in the private forum and post them out here in the public forums. Do NOT discuss a private thread in the public forum. It's private for a reason.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

mary35 said:


> He caused this problem and he needs to step up to the plate to work on fixing it with her. He has not been doing this very well since the Rabbi blow up and being kicked out of the marital bed. He has been really stupid and said really stupid things, and his behavior towards her that she has posted has been horrible since then. Her anger has justifiably been growing and she has withdrawn more and more from him for the purpose of self preservation. This is the track they are on - and this is the track they will stay on which will result in the end of the marriage if BOTH of them do not change tracks. This is how I see things differently. End of discussion as far as I am concerned.


What you and MrHB are failing to see is that this is a wrong committed entirely by him and it has been compounded by further wrongs. SHE cannot fix what HE did. HE has to do that all by himself. This is not a typical marital spat where the wife kicks the husband out of bed for telling her that her azz looked big in that dress. This is a whole nother ball game and the responsibility for making it right falls entirely on him.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@mary35 is not wrong that the path they are each on will result in a failed marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @mary35 is not wrong that the path they are each on will result in a failed marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


*That is wrong.*

If the marriage fails it will not be the fault of the person who was cheated on.

It will be the fault of the cheater.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Do NOT take quotes from a thread in the private forum and post them out here in the public forums. Do NOT discuss a private thread in the public forum. It's private for a reason.


Thanks for catching that, @EleGirl.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> *That is wrong.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No it is not wrong and your comments are not responsive to mine. You are talking fault and I am talking trajectory. Fault is irrelevant in the trajectory discussion. Who fired what rocket boosters when is a different discussion from the one that addresses where the ship is headed.

And each can independently decide to course correct. If hubby chooses not to and HB chooses not to then the path is set.

That's a valid observation.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

What an odd perspective given that Mr. HB50 is not denying what he's done and has called it his "affair."

Mr. HB50 was caught by his wife and he did not deny his behavior.
He said sorry, get over it
They went into counseling and for two months he refused to do the work that was asked of him because--football.
He belittled his wife and blame-shifted his infidelity in front of their children.
He literally blamed his wife for having to get rid of his affair partner
And the above is from Mr. HB50's own words both here and on his wife's page.
But some see "another side to this story"

Some people are more infidelity-apologists, by that I mean, they see the situation as the affair hurts the WS and we should all be empathetic to the pain they must have been in to have betrayed their spouse. This assumes the WS was in pain. It also requires assuming that the WS is truly sorry for their actions and the consequences of their actions. It further requires a belief that no one would knowingly, willingly betray their spouse unless something else was horribly wrong in the marriage.

It requires a lot of assumptions that are not always accurate. It ignores the reality that some people cheat because they can, with nothing more. I want to believe Mr. HB50 is not in the later group. What I want is irrelevant.

Yes. MrHB50 is facing his own mortality. I feel for him and his family in dealing with the illness and knowing his time is limited. As someone who has dealt with life-threatening illnesses both personally and with my ex-spouse I feel I can say, SO WHAT. Lots of people deal with these issues and don't behave the way he has. So his looming illness cannot be raised as a justification for his atrocious behavior towards his spouse and family.

He has said he was sorry for his actions.
He has not said he was sorry for the consequences his actions created, nor the impact his subsequent behavior has had on his entire family. Maybe he'll get there, maybe he won't. Imagine what a gift he could give his sons if MrHB50 were willing to take responsibility for his behavior and work towards healing his broken marriage.

I really hope he appreciates the fact that the degree of heavy lifting required here and the road to R are not his to determine.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @mary35 is not wrong that the path they are each on will result in a failed marriage.


The path they are on is 100% the fault of MrHB. She has given him chance after chance after chance to DO something, and as far as I can see, the ONLY thing he has done since she came here, out of the ten or so things she's asked for, is to write her letters. Which he's obviously very good at, and which he obviously is using to try to smooth things over so that he doesn't HAVE to do the other things. Oh, and he came here to post. And then gave us the old FU and ran.

She has tried to get him to see her side, to understand why she's devastated, and to get him to show some humility (explain to sons, etc.). Until he can lower his pride and find that humility, the marriage is doomed. She is there, patiently giving him yet another chance to come through.

This is on him.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think Ele said we are not supposed to post here things that were written in the private section?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

turnera said:


> The path they are on is 100% the fault of MrHB. She has given him chance after chance after chance to DO something, and as far as I can see, the ONLY thing he has done since she came here, out of the ten or so things she's asked for, is to write her letters. Which he's obviously very good at, and which he obviously is using to try to smooth things over so that he doesn't HAVE to do the other things. Oh, and he came here to post. And then gave us the old FU and ran.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I don't know why you responded to my post with this response. I agree with you. My post is not about that.

I think the people responding to me are responding emotionally and are not even reading my post. I am not AS or on the spectrum but I am high IQ and I see a clear distinction between things that are not the same. Perhaps that's it - many can't separate emotion from logic on certain topics. I'm not criticizing you (but again I see this as a plain factual observation) but I suspect you might feel criticized by this comment.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I don't know why you responded to my post with this response. I agree with you. My post is not about that.
> 
> I think the people responding to me are responding emotionally and are not even reading my post. I am not AS or on the spectrum but I am high IQ and I see a clear distinction between things that are not the same. Perhaps that's it - many can't separate emotion from logic on certain topics. I'm not criticizing you (but again I see this as a plain factual observation) but I suspect you might feel criticized by this comment.
> 
> ...


I have a very high IQ. Not as high as my wife, that's true, but still very high for all that. 

And I can spot that you seem to have some 'different' ideas to most of the other people in this thread.

That's not necessarily a good thing. If your ideas happen to be wrong.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> I have a very high IQ. Not as high as my wife, that's true, but still very high for all that.
> 
> And I can spot that you seem to have some 'different' ideas to most of the other people in this thread.
> 
> ...




Hmm well to me I think the opinions here that really count are those of the OP and his wife. There are many different ways to look at this situation and whose to say what is right or wrong except the people actually involved in real life/

He isn't going to come back to his thread regardless.



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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> I have a very high IQ. Not as high as my wife, that's true, but still very high for all that.
> 
> And I can spot that you seem to have some 'different' ideas to most of the other people in this thread.
> 
> ...




Well I am not going to argue with you but independently assert that I am correct


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Wow!

If everyone is so smart here how can half of us be wrong?

Makes my feeble brain hurt. 


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

citygirl4344 said:


> Hmm well to me I think the opinions here that really count are those of the OP and his wife. There are many different ways to look at this situation and whose to say what is right or wrong except the people actually involved in real life/
> 
> He isn't going to come back to his thread regardless.
> 
> ...




Most (if not all) of the posters on this thread had already been following his wife's. 

They knew how hurt she was. 

Answering the question "Was what I did really that bad" wasn't all that hard. 

Open book quiz. 


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Ceegee said:


> Most (if not all) of the posters on this thread had already been following his wife's.
> 
> They knew how hurt she was.
> 
> ...




I completely agree.
But in the end it's the opinions of the op and his wife that matter.



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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

citygirl4344 said:


> I completely agree.
> But in the end it's the opinions of the op and his wife that matter.
> 
> 
> ...




No "but" needed. 

Same page. 


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

When people start using IQ as an appeal to authority, it is time to close the thread.

LOL.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Well I am not going to argue with you but independently assert that I am correct
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What are you independently asserting that you are correct about?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

IQ does not matter here when we only have 20% of the story. We might think we know all that we need to be CERTAIN, but we don't. Only two people know enough and THEY cannot be certain of the outcome.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

blueinbr said:


> IQ does not matter here when we only have 20% of the story. We might think we know all that we need to be CERTAIN, but we don't. Only two people know enough and THEY cannot be certain of the outcome.




We know what we need to know. 

HB felt jilted. We tell her how to deal with it in a healthy way. 

MrHB felt he was misunderstood but wanted to reconcile with his wife so we told him how to deal with it. 

This isn't rocket science. 


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @mary35 is not wrong that the path they are each on will result in a failed marriage.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Fwiw, TTH,

I agree with you though I'm not sure if for the same reasons. Maybe, just not sure. 

If he continues to think he did no wrong and digs his feet in without remorse. 

If she continues to to say he did wrong and won't move forward without reparations. 

Then yes, it would be a failed marriage. 

If she sticks to her guns. 

She has all the power here. 

To borrow a TAM friends moniker, I think the peanut gallery here disagrees on how much remorse he needs to show before she can trust him again. 

That's all up to HB50. 


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> What are you independently asserting that you are correct about?




I'll have to think about that and get back to you. There must be something I was incorrect about lately but I haven't been able to recall what it is.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ceegee said:


> Fwiw, TTH,
> 
> I agree with you though I'm not sure if for the same reasons. Maybe, just not sure.
> 
> ...




Bingo! But he checked out at the start and doubled down on infidelity with boorish behavior and harassment. And though HB is compassionate and wants to believe, she's not wrong if she chooses to move in a straight line forward and not contort herself in ghastly ways to pretend things should be ok.

Never say never... I suppose he could emerge from his fog... but...


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

So we really are on same page here. 


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Ceegee said:


> So we really are on same page here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Of course. That's why I was concerned and amused to be treated as a pariah.

And why does autocorrect screw up half my text. Is pariah really that unusual a word?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Of course. That's why I was concerned and amused to be treated as a pariah.
> 
> And why does autocorrect screw up half my text. Is pariah really that unusual a word?
> 
> ...


Auto correct and the Android phone.

It actually adds new words onto the word you just typed.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> So we really are on same page here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, like a few other posters he feels the dude is being unfairly bashed and his responses are colored with this feeling. Notice how the word pariah was just used to explain his treatment? All people did was disagree with his position and it really wasn't that harsh.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Some take the position that if we dial it back Mr will come back here and post. 

Cheaters have been scared away. I know. They cannot take the heat. But we help them to also help the BS and their family. If they are not here, we cannot help.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, like a few other posters he feels the dude is being unfairly bashed and his responses are colored with this feeling. Notice how the word pariah was just used to explain his treatment? All people did was disagree with his position and it really wasn't that harsh.




Absolutely false. Did you read my post? I don't have a problem with the 2x4's. Personally I think he must be AS or on the spectrum or something because his entitled behavior is unbelievable.

I ONLY agreed with one statement by @mary35 and I only quoted that statement.

I did that because I wondered if that's really the point she was making AFTER she read the whole thread.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, like a few other posters he feels the dude is being unfairly bashed and his responses are colored with this feeling. Notice how the word pariah was just used to explain his treatment? All people did was disagree with his position and it really wasn't that harsh.




And the people who responded DIDNT disagree with my position. That's the whole point. They made up a position opposite of mine and then decided it was mine.

But I get why they did that - they responded emotionally without reading 


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Absolutely false. Did you read my post? I don't have a problem with the 2x4's. Personally I think he must be AS or on the spectrum or something because his entitled behavior is unbelievable.
> 
> I ONLY agreed with one statement by @mary35 and I only quoted that statement.
> 
> ...


LOL. Not even what I am addressing, but okay. 




> And the people who responded DIDNT disagree with my position. That's the whole point. They made up a position opposite of mine and then decided it was mine.
> 
> But I get why they did that - they responded emotionally without reading


I disagree it was other's words applied to you, but will end it here because all we will do is argue semantics and interpretations.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I think we are risking wandering off into the long grass with this thread if we aren't too careful.


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