# D-day: Today. Now what?



## Walt

Background:
Married 16 yrs, 3 kids. W had an EA that turned into a PA this week. We've been in MC and IC for 2+ months over EA - I thought it had stopped but it was underground. Tonight I found the texts confirming the PA.

I confronted her and told her to leave. She was stunned that I found out and that I asked her to leave. If it hadn't been for TAM, I would have left. Thanks TAM ( I guess).

After loads of her tears the only explanation is that she was just trying to find herself and experience things. She had no explanation. Why did she throw away 16yrs and 3 kids? "I don;t know."

In MC, we talked repeatedly about the EA and how dangerous it was and the potential for PA. It was a train I saw coming a mile away and warned her incessantly.

Now that it is done - I feel a strange calm. The stress of not knowing when (not if) is over. She's gone.

I got her a suitcase and she packed and left minutes ago.

*What now?* How do you know whether to R or D? My first inclination was D. How long should I let the decision simmer?

What do I tell my kids who are sleeping upstairs when they wake up and mom isn't home?

How can I pull the knife out of my back?


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## Chaparral

How did you find out?


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## Walt

She's a bad lier. Things didn't add up. I've been watching like a hawk and she let something innocent slip. Adding 2+2 made it obvious.


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## pidge70

Why on Earth did she even bother with MC? I suppose to throw you off. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

pidge70 said:


> Why on Earth did she even bother with MC? I suppose to throw you off. I'm so sorry you are going through this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When we started MC, it was a "weak" EA. 

I think what happened is that my W "split" into 2 personalities - the one willing to go to MC and see it thru vs. the one who thought she could have it all and no one would find out.

The PA was a rash decision on her part - more like a one night stand. It was the dopamine that overcame her.


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## upset/confused

I am 4 weeks since finding out and still don't have and answer to R or D. I think it is still too early and your emotions are out of control. Hurt, anger, sadness at every turn. I still have them. 

My kids have been told that dad is on a trip. He calls once in awhile but they don't suspect too much yet. Only when I loose it and have to go into the bathroom.

Take some time to calm down, read as much as you can. The first instinct always seems to be divorce, but it will not stop any of the pain.


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## lordmayhem

Walt said:


> *What now?* How do you know whether to R or D? My first inclination was D. How long should I let the decision simmer?
> 
> What do I tell my kids who are sleeping upstairs when they wake up and mom isn't home?
> 
> How can I pull the knife out of my back?


Actually your DDay was some time ago here:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28619-im-here-not-choice.html

Throughout your story, your WW has refused to go NC with OM, refused to write a NC letter, refuses to be transparent, and isn't remorseful. She's been asking for separation since you found out. 

This is actually your first day of separation, and you had no choice but to go this route because of her actions. She was not suffering any consequences from having her EA with OM.

It's basically up to you how long you want to wait to decide. But what is certain is that she should not be allowed back until she meets the requirements for R:

1. No Contact with OM forever. She must write a NC letter in front of you.
2. She must willingly be fully transparent. Anything else than that is rugsweeping. She should never call you controlling. She betrayed the trust and the marriage. If she wants to save it, she would do anything to rebuild that trust.
3. True Remorse. That means being empathetic to your hurt, not just hers. 

Here's a chart by Fighting2Survive at SI, Before you R:










You should change your mind about monitoring, if you want to ensure that NC in effect. But that's farther down the road if you should decide to give her a shot at R. You may not feel that she deserves a shot at R later down the road.

Tell your kids that you love them, and continue to reassure them. Make sure that they know that the problem between their mother and you is NOT THEIR FAULT.


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## Walt

lordmayhem said:


> Actually your DDay was some time ago here:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/28619-im-here-not-choice.html
> 
> Throughout your story, your WW has refused to go NC with OM, refused to write a NC letter, refuses to be transparent, and isn't remorseful. She's been asking for separation since you found out.
> 
> This is actually your first day of separation, and you had no choice but to go this route because of her actions. She was not suffering any consequences from having her EA with OM.
> 
> It's basically up to you how long you want to wait to decide. But what is certain is that she should not be allowed back until she meets the requirements for R:
> 
> 1. No Contact with OM forever. She must write a NC letter in front of you.
> 2. She must willingly be fully transparent. Anything else than that is rugsweeping. She should never call you controlling. She betrayed the trust and the marriage. If she wants to save it, she would do anything to rebuild that trust.
> 3. True Remorse. That means being empathetic to your hurt, not just hers.
> 
> Here's a chart by Fighting2Survive at SI, Before you R:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should change your mind about monitoring, if you want to ensure that NC in effect. But that's farther down the road if you should decide to give her a shot at R. You may not feel that she deserves a shot at R later down the road.
> 
> Tell your kids that you love them, and continue to reassure them. Make sure that they know that the problem between their mother and you is NOT THEIR FAULT.



Yes that was the 1st D-Day. Believe it or not the PA was actually with OM#2, who I didn't even know about until MC. I knocked off OM#1 - but still lost the battle.

Thanks for your advice. This is so raw, I'm going to need time to process.


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## lordmayhem

Sorry to hear that there is actually an OM#2 besides OM#1. Something is definitely broken inside her. 

Take your time to process this. Continue the 180 to help you detach and think more clearly. Remember, R is not for everyone. She must do some serious heavy lifting if she wants back into the marriage, like a complete 180 in her attitude from what you've described of her.

Will you get that serious attitude change? Nothing is certain. But what you can expect is for reality to start hitting her. She may or may not call to want to come home, it depends how deep in the fog she is and if the OM throws her under the bus. Is OM#2 married? Have you exposed the A to the OMW if he is married?


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## the guy

I think the ball is in her court, If she wants to stay married thens she does the NC, the password things, and recommit. If she can own this crap and take the responsablity for it then there is something to look at. I mean if she is truely remorseful and shows it, then its something to look at.

But if she can't NC and plays the blame game and isn't willing to do the things that you need to heal...well then you have your answer.

Granted shes in the fog, but either she's all in or she's not. You can't control her, so don't try. Just be careful and if she can't allow you to validate her commitment and you see that she can't give up the OM it may be time to let her go.

It might be better to just let her go rather then forcing the feeling she just doesn't have. It's her call...again she can step up or step out, but don't beg for the marriage, and make it clear that unlike her ...you are not confused and know for sure you will not tolorate her affair, that is the bottom line.

Again she may make the choice for you, but I think if she recommits 100% I would work it out. Thats what I think needs to truelly be looked at...her commitment.


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## Walt

lordmayhem said:


> Sorry to hear that there is actually an OM#2 besides OM#1. Something is definitely broken inside her.
> 
> Is OM#2 married? Have you exposed the A to the OMW if he is married?


OM#2 is single and is someone I don't know personally. He is a friend of one of her friends. Ironically, he got divorced b/c his wife cheated on him. 

From what I could gather, he saw an easy target and hit it. I doubt he's looking for a relationship.

You're right - something is broken and she was hell bent on finding someone, anyone to be unfaithful with.

Why she put up the charade of MC is beyond me. She should have just left.


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## ItHappenedToMe

Walt, I'm sorry for what you are going through. Your resposes are the same as I could imagine from my DH. Keep breathing deeply. Keep nourished. Sleep.

Mayhem, you have a gift.


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## lordmayhem

Walt said:


> Why she put up the charade of MC is beyond me. She should have just left.


Because like many cheaters, she wants to cake eat. The whole, wanting the security of marriage, while having the freedom to cheat. This is why MC is useless while the WS is in the fog, the WS doesn't listen anyway, and leaves the BS with a false sense of security. 

MC is great AFTER the A is over AND the WS wants to recommit 100% to the marriage. From your threads, it seems like your WW used MC to continue to blame shift and validate her A. It also seems like you got a MC who was more into concentrating on pre-affair issues instead of focusing on the affair and how to end/deal with it. This is why MC is so hit and miss. You have to be able to find the right one, one that will hold your WW accountable. It seemed the MC you were going thru only validated her affair, she even told you to stop snooping. How silly is that? How else can you verify NC and rebuild trust? 

You've learned the hard way that you cannot trust what a cheating spouse says.


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## 8yearscheating

Lord Mayhems chart and words are dead on. You can't change ehr mind and MAKE her want to R. She has to want that herself and take the ACTIONS not words to do it. Just lay out that list and tell her for all intents and purposes your done. If she wants the one last sliver of a chance she had better start doing the list TODAY before you last ounce of reservations about D are gone. Remember - actions, not words or tears. How did she take it underground? Oh and the friend of a friend - that friend of hers - is he/she complicit or knows whats going on? ASK the friend!


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## Chaparral

Have you confronted OM1 and OM2?


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## jnj express

Ultimately this is about what you want---can you spend the rest of your life, living with what she has done to you----she knew the whole mge., was on thin ice---yet she went deeply underground, and PLANNED, CONNIVED, MANIPULATED, AND DECEITFULLY made sure she had her tryst

Chemicals or not, she knew what she was risking, and lets just put you out of the picture for a minute---she KNEW full well she was also doing this to her kids---

Right now you hold all the leverage----if you D., her she will be on her own, working one to two jobs to make ends meet---she will be dog tired day after day from work, plus having to run the kids around when she has them----and she will not really be financially stable---PLUS---she will now be a single divorced mother of 3, who is in that situation cuz she cheated on her H---that is the label she will wear into her future life----SHE ISN'T GOING TO GET MUCH IN THE WAY OF DECENT MEN, CARRYING THAT BAGGAGE

Stay hard, do not back down, and let her think about what she has done to everyone she is involved with---the ball is in your court---the game is completely played, NOW, by your rules------she gets no say, discussion, about anything in how this all will play out----figure out what is best for you, and implement it


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## morituri

jnj express said:


> Stay hard, do not back down, and let her think about what she has done to everyone she is involved with---the ball is in your court---the game is completely played, NOW, by your rules------she gets no say, discussion, about anything in how this all will play out----figure out what is best for you, and implement it


:iagree:

So many let their decision be clouded by the fact that they have kids with their cheating spouse as the reason to allow them back without having them PROVE that they are worthy to be taken back.

Make Lordmayhem's chart part of your core values.


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## Shaggy

I went back an reread your original thread. Looking back all her reactions make it clear that when she got caught in the EA with OM1 she pushed at you to trust her and to let her have space etc. while giving up OM1.

Now it's clear it was because she want space and freedom with OM2. She had you focused on stopping the EA and getting rid of OM1, while she was actually done with him and onto OM2.

You say she's a bad liar, yet she kept you misdirected, and continued playing the game of MC etc. all the while she went after OM2. It sounds like she's actually pretty conniving liar Walt.

Now that you've broken through the most recent lies, have you gone back and looked for other times she's been doing this? Perhaps she's a serial cheater who just got caught because you started paying attention?


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## cj9947

We have similar stories just in different order. My wife confessed to a several month PA but I had to find out on my own that she was having a 3+ year EA with another man. Follow the advice giving here and I am sure you will come to the right decision for you and your family.

The advice I really appreciated was the 180 rule, do not fall for the WS lies, be patient, trust your gut, take care of yourself, expose the WS to light of day, purge all the people who were involved with this from your life....

Best wishes.


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## Walt

lordmayhem said:


> Because like many cheaters, she wants to cake eat. The whole, wanting the security of marriage, while having the freedom to cheat.


This is exactly what happened.

I was so busy fighting EA OM1 that OM2 snuck up from left field.


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> You say she's a bad liar, yet she kept you misdirected, and continued playing the game of MC etc. all the while she went after OM2. It sounds like she's actually pretty conniving liar Walt.
> 
> Now that you've broken through the most recent lies, have you gone back and looked for other times she's been doing this? Perhaps she's a serial cheater who just got caught because you started paying attention?


She is a bad liar - andI did get misdirected on OM2. I got gaslighted.

No, there is zero evidence or behavior that would suggest anything other than what happened this week was the first. She's not a serial cheater.


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## Walt

Update:

So, I kicked her out last night and she came back in the middle of the night. She said she didn't have anywhere else to stay (liar) and she was going to kill herself w/sleeping pills (she has a ton of them) . I knew this was a ploy, but I couldn't risk letting it happen, so I let her sleep on the couch.

This morning she starts to tell me what happened w/ om2. She says no sex happened only groping. (Liar - I saw the texts.)

Then she tells me she is confused. She doesn't know why she did it or what to do now. LIAR. (She wants out, just can't bring herself to do it).

I told her that she had to leave for the rest of the weekend and here is the separation she wanted. We;ll work out the details on the kids later. Basically, I think I'm going to have her stay elsewhere at night and take care of the kids at our house during the day. When I come home from work, she'll have to leave.

She is apologetic, but not remorseful. I gave her the reconciliation/rug sweeping chart and told her this would have to happen if any R were to occur. Actions, not words. 

She needs to choose if she wants to stay or go. I need to decide if I can take her back. 

I feel a strange calmness. Like the storm I knew was coming has finally passed. If D happens, I'm ready. I'm just not sure I want to make that decision yet.


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## Entropy3000

jnj express said:


> Ultimately this is about what you want---can you spend the rest of your life, living with what she has done to you----she knew the whole mge., was on thin ice---yet she went deeply underground, and PLANNED, CONNIVED, MANIPULATED, AND DECEITFULLY made sure she had her tryst
> 
> Chemicals or not, she knew what she was risking, and lets just put you out of the picture for a minute---she KNEW full well she was also doing this to her kids---
> 
> Right now you hold all the leverage----if you D., her she will be on her own, working one to two jobs to make ends meet---she will be dog tired day after day from work, plus having to run the kids around when she has them----and she will not really be financially stable---PLUS---she will now be a single divorced mother of 3, who is in that situation cuz she cheated on her H---that is the label she will wear into her future life----SHE ISN'T GOING TO GET MUCH IN THE WAY OF DECENT MEN, CARRYING THAT BAGGAGE
> 
> Stay hard, do not back down, and let her think about what she has done to everyone she is involved with---the ball is in your court---the game is completely played, NOW, by your rules------she gets no say, discussion, about anything in how this all will play out----figure out what is best for you, and implement it


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Walt

Do I contact OM2?

I don't know him and exposing him is useless as he is single and not part of our community.

The only reason to contact would be to confirm details and let him know that I know. However, I'm sure he knows already b/c W has contacted their mutual friend.


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## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> Update:
> 
> So, I kicked her out last night and she came back in the middle of the night. She said she didn't have anywhere else to stay (liar) and she was going to kill herself w/sleeping pills (she has a ton of them) . I knew this was a ploy, but I couldn't risk letting it happen, so I let her sleep on the couch.
> 
> This morning she starts to tell me what happened w/ om2. She says no sex happened only groping. (Liar - I saw the texts.)
> 
> Then she tells me she is confused. She doesn't know why she did it or what to do now. LIAR. (She wants out, just can't bring herself to do it).
> 
> I told her that she had to leave for the rest of the weekend and here is the separation she wanted. We;ll work out the details on the kids later. Basically, I think I'm going to have her stay elsewhere at night and take care of the kids at our house during the day. When I come home from work, she'll have to leave.
> 
> She is apologetic, but not remorseful. I gave her the reconciliation/rug sweeping chart and told her this would have to happen if any R were to occur. Actions, not words.
> 
> She needs to choose if she wants to stay or go. I need to decide if I can take her back.
> 
> I feel a strange calmness. Like the storm I knew was coming has finally passed. If D happens, I'm ready. I'm just not sure I want to make that decision yet.


Stay strong. I think you have gotten very good advice from people have gone through these things before.

Minimizing to groping really does not help much. When did this occur? Who was watching the kids? Did he come to your home? I know, not the point now. For all you know this could have been a longer pattern of behavior with more than these two guys. That does matter if you are considering R.


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## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> Do I contact OM2?
> 
> I don't know him and exposing him is useless as he is single and not part of our community.
> 
> The only reason to contact would be to confirm details and let him know that I know. However, I'm sure he knows already b/c W has contacted their mutual friend.


If it helps you decide on whether to R or D then do it. If you are going to R then you need to warn him off and mean it. You may be able to trick him into validating what your wife said. Sure she may have already told him the cover story but maybe not and even then he may just ignore her cover. Challenge him with having a PA with the mother of your children. His response may give you a clue. If he gets aggressive that validates it was a PA.

This was called a ONS but maybe it was just the first time. Maybe there had been others as well.


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## Walt

Entropy3000 said:


> Minimizing to groping really does not help much. When did this occur? Who was watching the kids? Did he come to your home? I know, not the point now. For all you know this could have been a longer pattern of behavior with more than these two guys. That does matter if you are considering R.


It was at his place. She lied and said she was going out to dinner with a friend.

I was home with the kids. 

Details don't matter. Bottom line, she's still lying even when busted. Honestly, I don't really care about the sex details. The betrayal & the lies after 16+ yrs. hurts much, much more.


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## lordmayhem

Walt said:


> Update:
> 
> So, I kicked her out last night and she came back in the middle of the night. She said she didn't have anywhere else to stay (liar) and she was going to kill herself w/sleeping pills (she has a ton of them) . I knew this was a ploy, but I couldn't risk letting it happen, so I let her sleep on the couch.
> 
> This morning she starts to tell me what happened w/ om2. She says no sex happened only groping. (Liar - I saw the texts.)
> 
> Then she tells me she is confused. She doesn't know why she did it or what to do now. LIAR. (She wants out, just can't bring herself to do it).
> 
> I told her that she had to leave for the rest of the weekend and here is the separation she wanted. We;ll work out the details on the kids later. Basically, I think I'm going to have her stay elsewhere at night and take care of the kids at our house during the day. When I come home from work, she'll have to leave.
> 
> She is apologetic, but not remorseful. I gave her the reconciliation/rug sweeping chart and told her this would have to happen if any R were to occur. Actions, not words.
> 
> She needs to choose if she wants to stay or go. I need to decide if I can take her back.
> 
> I feel a strange calmness. Like the storm I knew was coming has finally passed. If D happens, I'm ready. I'm just not sure I want to make that decision yet.


When you look at it from an outsiders point of view, what she says sound ridiculous. They groped? Yeah, right. What, are they in middle school or high school or something? 

Looks like you have a decent plan in place. She has to know that you will not finance her cheating. That she will NOT have the financial security of marriage while she spreads her legs for other men. No, you can't make her love you or be faithful, but you CAN show her the consequences of her actions. And that means you are no ones second choice or back up plan. You are not a cuckhold.

And if you decide to go to MC again, to fire the previous one. The previous MC, only focused on pre-affair issues and practically enabled her affair by validating her foggy feelings. This MC did more harm to your marriage. Find another one in the future, one that will hold her accountable for her actions, not validate them.


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## whammy

dont listen to all this advice. MC, letter writing, forced NC with the OM... its all bull crap. YOU have to be the man she wants over everyone else. A life with you has to be what she wants over any other life. You dont do that by forcing her to go to MC... MC isnt real and its a waste of money. MC has never made a man or woman attracted to or fall back in love with the person they cheated on. Forcing her to write some stupid letter is not going to make her want/love you over somebody else. Just because she shows remorse doesnt mean she loves you or wants you. A women cheats because she doesnt want/love/respect her husband at all or she wants/loves/respects somebody else more... The key to a womans heart is hypergamy. A woman would never cheat if she viewed her husband as having more value then her or the people around them. She cheated on you because she views these men as above you. All the typical post d-day advice = begging... and will never result in the wanting/love/respect from the cheating woman. Your only move is too move on. You need to legally seperate and start seeing other women. Improve yourself physically, socially, romantically, start dressing better and all that. Talk to her about nothing but the kids and legal stuff... and keep it brief. go out and live and be better then her and be better then you used to be


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## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> It was at his place. * She lied and said she was going out to dinner with a friend.*
> 
> I was home with the kids.
> 
> Details don't matter. Bottom line, she's still lying even when busted. Honestly, I don't really care about the sex details. *The betrayal & the lies after 16+ yrs. hurts much, much more.*


I agree about the betrayal. My brain tries to explain how this can happen but really it is still unbelieveable to me when a woman leaves her husband at home to take care of thier children while she goes to another man. This I see on this forum time and time again. 

Sure hypergamy. I get that ... to a point. It is her perception of greater value. But how a woman can see greater value in this other guy when her husband is supporting thier children and her as a SAHM is still baffling to me. But I am guy. I guess we guys put too great of an emphasis on taking care of our families base needs of food and shelter and so on. Some other jerk has some kind words, maybe she sees him as sexy but give me a break. Especially when the husband is with her in counseling to try to turn things around. She is hiding behind the children as without the kids it would be easy for a man to just move on.


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## lordmayhem

Entropy3000 said:


> I agree about the betrayal. My brain tries to explain how this can happen but really it is still unbelieveable to me when a woman leaves her husband at home to take care of thier children while she goes to another man. This I see on this forum time and time again.
> 
> Sure hypergamy. I get that ... to a point. It is her perception of greater value. But how a woman can see greater value in this other guy when her husband is supporting thier children and her as a SAHM is still baffling to me. But I am guy. I guess we guys put too great of an emphasis on taking care of our families base needs of food and shelter and so on. Some other jerk has some kind words, maybe she sees him as sexy but give me a break. Especially when the husband is with her in counseling to try to turn things around. She is hiding behind the children as without the kids it would be easy for a man to just move on.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

She leaves him to stay at home and watch the kids, while she goes to the OMs place to screw his brains out. 

Yet she has the gall to accuse Walt of being "controlling." For some reason, the fear of being accused of controlling, leaves many men staying at home watching the children while their cheating wives go out to bang other men. 

Now, whenever I see a story here of suspected infidelity, and the WS accuses the BS of being controlling, I see that as an automatic red flag. Its ususally the WW that plays the "controlling" card, which usually makes the man back down quickly. 

Walt, I would also cut off contact with this friend of hers. If she knew about your WW's affair, then she facilitated it by providing your WW with the alibi. She may or may not have known about your WWs planned trip to OMs place, but she undoubtedly helped enable your WWs affairs by providing her the emotional support. (i.e. He can't do that to you! He's being controlling!)


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## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
> 
> She leaves him to stay at home and watch the kids, while she goes to the OMs place to screw his brains out.
> 
> Yet she has the gall to accuse Walt of being "controlling." For some reason, the fear of being accused of controlling, leaves many men staying at home watching the children while their cheating wives go out to bang other men.
> 
> Now, whenever I see a story here of suspected infidelity, and the WS accuses the BS of being controlling, I see that as an automatic red flag. Its ususally the WW that plays the "controlling" card, which usually makes the man back down quickly.
> 
> Walt, I would also cut off contact with this friend of hers. If she knew about your WW's affair, then she facilitated it by providing your WW with the alibi. She may or may not have known about your WWs planned trip to OMs place, but she undoubtedly helped enable your WWs affairs by providing her the emotional support. (i.e. He can't do that to you! He's being controlling!)


Absolutely. Almost mentioned the friend myself. She has not been a friend of the marriage.

I don't know why guys are so afraid of the "controlling" word. LOL. It would not impact me one bit. A husband is supposed to c0ckbl0ck. Controlling? So f'ing what? If someone called me that about how I was dealing with my wife, which they never have, I have two words for them ... F^ck Off. I guess technically if a guy pulls his wife physically off the guy she is feverishly riding he would be controlling. UFB.

Then we get some crunked out folks who sound like they are living in their mothers basement zoned out on crack who then jump to "You are not her dad. You don't own her. She can do whatever she wants". That just sounds like someone who is not even married yet and has no clue.

I think it is eye opening though to see how much of this happens after a couple of kids. The seven year itch thing. Then I see a lot of "we have been married ten years". In his case sixteen. We don't know when this really started however. I have no doubt that done correctly being a SAHM is plenty challenging. But these days it seems past a certain point women get bored with this and their husbands.

There are just too many guys out there willing to jump on the next MILF. It appears very easy for moms who have any inclination to "check out their options" to cheat. I mean realistically an average woman could walk into a number of places and walk away with a guy or two or three with little effort. Or just go to the right website. My point is that now one can cheat on the a passing whim too readily. A weak moment. Instant gratification. And there is little stigma to this any more.


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## jnj express

Hey Walt-----you didn't get blindsided---you were taken in with a well thought out plan---your wife is no innocent---she and her lover planned everything, lied to you, and decieved you every step of the way----Is this the person who you want to continue to call your wife, for the rest of your life.

Leave the other man alone---yes he is scum, and lower than low----but you didn't take vows with him, you didn't go thru 16/17 yrs of reality with him, and he is not the mother of your children, mother at this point who thinks little, or nothing of her own kids

One more thing---BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING SHE SAYS---she doing nothing more than protecting her butt, and trying to make it look like very little happened------the facts/inferences, don't support anything she says-------why would a spouse go to all that trouble, and risk EVERYTHING, for some groping!!!!!!


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## F-102

Groping-she's trickle truthing you, just feeding you bits and pieces in the hopes that eventually, you'll be satisfied with one of her lesser bulls**t confessions, and then you'll get off her case.

If there's one thing I've learned on this site, there is almost always MUCH, MUCH MORE to this than she's telling you.


----------



## Chaparral

"Leave the other man alone---yes he is scum, and lower than low----but you didn't take vows with him, you didn't go thru 16/17 yrs of reality with him, and he is not the mother of your children, mother at this point who thinks little, or nothing of her own kids"

I flat do not understand this. OM has basically stolen everything Walt has in his life. I hear this all the time here. Might as well pat OM on the back and tell him well played ,you win, congratulations. Its pathetic. No wonder people go after other peoples spouses, there are no longer any consequences. Never lay down in front of evil, period.


----------



## whammy

Entropy3000 said:


> I agree about the betrayal. My brain tries to explain how this can happen but really it is still unbelieveable to me when a woman leaves her husband at home to take care of thier children while she goes to another man. This I see on this forum time and time again.
> 
> Sure hypergamy. I get that ... to a point. It is her perception of greater value. But how a woman can see greater value in this other guy when her husband is supporting thier children and her as a SAHM is still baffling to me. But I am guy. I guess we guys put too great of an emphasis on taking care of our families base needs of food and shelter and so on. Some other jerk has some kind words, maybe she sees him as sexy but give me a break. Especially when the husband is with her in counseling to try to turn things around. She is hiding behind the children as without the kids it would be easy for a man to just move on.


1.) The beta-provider type hubbys get sh*t on way more often then not (usually through infidelity then divorce court.)
2.) A woman's children rarely come into play when she is making romantic/sexual decisions.
3.) Being married doesnt remove ANYONE from the sexual market


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> "Leave the other man alone---yes he is scum, and lower than low----but you didn't take vows with him, you didn't go thru 16/17 yrs of reality with him, and he is not the mother of your children, mother at this point who thinks little, or nothing of her own kids"
> 
> I flat do not understand this. OM has basically stolen everything Walt has in his life. I hear this all the time here. Might as well pat OM on the back and tell him well played ,you win, congratulations. Its pathetic. No wonder people go after other peoples spouses, there are no longer any consequences. Never lay done in front of evil, period.


I have never had to do this so I don't know what I would do for sure. But I can guess that while I would hold my wife 100% responsible the OM would have hell to pay. I would hold him the other 100% responsible. No free pass from me. If it ended my relationship it would not bode well for him at all as I would have less to lose. 

Veritas Aequitas


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## Entropy3000

whammy said:


> 1.) The beta-provider type hubbys get sh*t on way more often then not (usually through infidelity then divorce court.)
> 
> I can only be thankful I am not that Beta of a guy. I thought I was until I came to this forum. I am a person of extremes. I can be a very compassionate understanding person until my boundaries get triggered. Then I am pretty much medieval.
> 
> 2.) A woman's children rarely come into play when she is making romantic/sexual decisions.
> 
> I see this too. It still amazes me though. I guess they know they will keep the kids anyway and in many ways use them as a weapon against thier mate. It is a way of manipulating them. They feel safe to cheat as they are the mother of the guys children. Pretty f'd up.
> 
> 3.) Being married doesnt remove ANYONE from the sexual market
> 
> Yes, indeed. Perhaps the biggest mistake that people make. I absolutely do not believe in blind trust either. The only thing I can suggest is that men take care of thier marriage and make sure they are the best man for their wife. She has to want him. That said it is stupid to tempt fate and have your wife hang out in meat markets and so on. Even Shaqs wife cheated with her personal trainer.


Yes, I would agree with this. This is the reality. One must deal with this reality. I do see this as reality but it is still a bunch of sh!t. So be it.


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## jnj express

Don't get me wrong---the A. partner is nothing but lowlife---and in 7 states they can be sued for what they have caused----but in the end---it is the betrayed's spouse that is 100% responsible----they are spose to have enuff of, call it anything you want, to see thru the BS, being thrown at them, to know what the consequences will be, and yes the innocent kids always come into play, THE BEEF IS WITH YOUR SPOUSE, had your spouse not participated we wouldn't be here discussing this-----much as you want to put the A. partner in the hospital for a year, it is the spouse who did the cheating!!!!!!!


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## Entropy3000

jnj express said:


> Don't get me wrong---the A. partner is nothing but lowlife---and in 7 states they can be sued for what they have caused----but in the end---it is the betrayed's spouse that is 100% responsible----they are spose to have enuff of, call it anything you want, to see thru the BS, being thrown at them, to know what the consequences will be, and yes the innocent kids always come into play, THE BEEF IS WITH YOUR SPOUSE, had your spouse not participated we wouldn't be here discussing this-----much as you want to put the A. partner in the hospital for a year, it is the spouse who did the cheating!!!!!!!


Cheating wives suck.

Wow, that could be a tee-shirt.

I think a guy who even tries to game your wife should have his @$$ kicked. I am not talking about hitting on her. I am talking about the guy who methodically stalked her, and gamed her. I think he gets a co-pay on this one. I think his life gets f^cked up too. Maybe there should be a sign in the yard that warns these guys. Maybe a special tag on her panties that says once you break this seal you are a dead man. Something subtle.

I think if my wife were to do this to me at this point in our marriage it would put me over the edge. I would take the guy off the board. Yes she would be responsible for her actions. But the dude would have really made a poor choice for his activities. Seriously. I am not suggesting this for anyone else.


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## Walt

I sincerely appreciate all the help and advice you've given. Some has been right on, other stuff not so much. In any case, I truly needed to hear it.

At the moment, I have not decided to R or D. 

Last night, the fog began to lift. I think the seriousness of her actions have finally caught up to her. She gave me honest answers to most - not all - of my questions. Remember, I have info that she doesn't know I have so I asked her things I already knew the answer to. 

I gave her the Reconciliation/rug sweeping chart (thanks, LordM). Told her that *IF* any R would happen, it would be on these non-negotiable terms. Also told her that I haven't made a decision on R or D and that my decision would hinge on whether I could open my heart to her again after this betrayal.

Without my asking, she has already done some things to prove herself. Baby steps, but steps nonetheless.

If I go the R route, she is going to have a lot of work to do. I don't know if she can be honest enough with herself to do it. She hasn't been honest with anyone, including herself, for months.

Someone mentioned the friend. Yes - she has to go. And so does another very close friend who knew about this. I'm not sure whether she will end contact with them. But that is the price you pay for being a cheater. 

I;m going back and forth on contacting OM. Calling him out would really be the only benefit. As this was not a "relationship", I don't see him pursuing her. There wasn't any emotional involvement on his side. As someone said, my beef is with my W, not him.

Right now, I'm 36 hours away from this. Every time I've felt weak (let's just make up and move on) I re-read this thread and realize that I'd just be setting myself up for failure down the road. Your comments give me the strength to move forward in a positive manner.

Beta and "Nice Guy" got me here. Now is the time to be Alpha.

-Walt


----------



## 8yearscheating

Strong yes, but mix it with a little compassion and understanding if you want to R. It can work Walt. Believe me my situation had a much bigger pile of crap to work through but I'm doing it, so is she and it's been getting better and better everyday with absolutely zero regrets.

I'm so happy for you she is starting to see daylight and that light is burning off the fog. Hold on, have hope, stick to your needs and boundaries. BOTH of you need IC and MC. Get moving on it and don't procrastinate.


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## Eli-Zor

Good work, give it time an see how it pans out. As for the OM take him out , he knew your wife is married and chose to play with her, she writes a nc letter copy his parents and/or siblings therein , few men want their folks to know it puts a downer on the next family gathering. Don't let him get away with this without removing him from the picture with your wife cooperation she may hankering for him, her working with you to out him will say volumes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70

I just wonder how much good outing a ONS is going to do. Do you think the guy gives a crap? I mean really, who comes out looking worse when this happens? 

The whole concept of the NC letter eludes me. You can do all the things stated and you still cannot be 100% sure it just doesn't go underground.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

Pidge, the idea is for the WS to write it and LS to send it. The LS will be able to tell by the tone of the letter written where the DS is on the matter. It must also be sent registered return receipt requested mail so it is signed for. Later if the ONS keeps badgering or trying to contact, t can be used to pull a restraining order. Again, if the WS balks at this, it is a clear indication where their loyalties lie.


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## pidge70

To each his own. I know in my case if either myself or SO had tried most of the things suggested on here, we would not be together. He has said the same. All the things mentioned on here are not going to work for everyone. I get that it has worked for some but, not all. 

Anyway, I am sorry you are here Walt. I wish you all the best in whatever decision you make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

pidge70 said:


> I just wonder how much good outing a ONS is going to do. Do you think the guy gives a crap? I mean really, who comes out looking worse when this happens?


You are right about the OM not giving a crap about her. Let's face it, if he is truly a divorced man who has been without sex for a long time, he's going to be wanting sex badly now that he's been with her. More so if he believes that her husband is completely unaware of it. How much more do you think he is going to want to continue having sex with her? 



> The whole concept of the NC letter eludes me. You can do all the things stated and you still cannot be 100% sure it just doesn't go underground.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again it is to expose to the AP (affair partner) that the LS(loyal spouse) is aware and that from this point on, the DS (disloyal spouse) will have nothing more to do with him/her.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, you know that. We do these things because reality has proven time and again that doing so will yield the results we desire, most of the time. In other words, we play when the odds are in our favor.


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## jnj express

Somewhere thru all of this turmoil, and if YOU wanna try to R.---You have to get to the deep down CORE WHY---she did this

Your mge., can't be fixed, your wife can't be fixed, unless you know what to fix

She may give you the I don't know WHY line---but she sure as he*l knows what she was thinking every step of the way

She knew what she was thinking when she lied to you and said she was going to dinner with a friend, she knew what she was thinking as she drove to meet him---she knew what she was thinking as she went with him into whatever place they were at, she knew what she was thinking as they made small talk, and flirted, she knew what she was thinking as she went to where ever he wanted to perform the sex with her, she knew what she was thinking as she undressed, she knew what she was thinking as she had foreplay, and she knew what she was thinking as she had her final destructive act of sex, that changed so many lives forever

She knew what she was doing, and before you do anything else---you need to get it out of her----and you really don't need a counselor at this point----just you and her---talk about why, what is really wrong, and what is needed to even attempt to go into a R.----This needs to come before anything else---otherwise you are just wasting each others time.


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## 8yearscheating

It may take long time to get the why and asking a million times won't get the answer. First she has to own it, then forgive herself THEN examine why with an IC. That is a LONG process. It took my wife 3-4 months to get there and I dare say she got there faster than most.


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## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> I sincerely appreciate all the help and advice you've given. Some has been right on, other stuff not so much. In any case, I truly needed to hear it.
> 
> At the moment, I have not decided to R or D.
> 
> Last night, the fog began to lift. I think the seriousness of her actions have finally caught up to her. She gave me honest answers to most - not all - of my questions. Remember, I have info that she doesn't know I have so I asked her things I already knew the answer to.
> 
> I gave her the Reconciliation/rug sweeping chart (thanks, LordM). Told her that *IF* any R would happen, it would be on these non-negotiable terms. Also told her that I haven't made a decision on R or D and that my decision would hinge on whether I could open my heart to her again after this betrayal.
> 
> Without my asking, she has already done some things to prove herself. Baby steps, but steps nonetheless.
> 
> If I go the R route, she is going to have a lot of work to do. I don't know if she can be honest enough with herself to do it. She hasn't been honest with anyone, including herself, for months.
> 
> Someone mentioned the friend. Yes - she has to go. And so does another very close friend who knew about this. I'm not sure whether she will end contact with them. But that is the price you pay for being a cheater.
> 
> I;m going back and forth on contacting OM. Calling him out would really be the only benefit. As this was not a "relationship", I don't see him pursuing her. There wasn't any emotional involvement on his side. As someone said, my beef is with my W, not him.
> 
> Right now, I'm 36 hours away from this. Every time I've felt weak (let's just make up and move on) I re-read this thread and realize that I'd just be setting myself up for failure down the road. Your comments give me the strength to move forward in a positive manner.
> 
> Beta and "Nice Guy" got me here. Now is the time to be Alpha.
> 
> -Walt


Good to hear Walt. Hang tough.


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## Entropy3000

jnj express said:


> Somewhere thru all of this turmoil, and if YOU wanna try to R.---You have to get to the deep down CORE WHY---she did this
> 
> Your mge., can't be fixed, your wife can't be fixed, unless you know what to fix
> 
> She may give you the I don't know WHY line---but she sure as he*l knows what she was thinking every step of the way
> 
> She knew what she was thinking when she lied to you and said she was going to dinner with a friend, she knew what she was thinking as she drove to meet him---she knew what she was thinking as she went with him into whatever place they were at, she knew what she was thinking as they made small talk, and flirted, she knew what she was thinking as she went to where ever he wanted to perform the sex with her, she knew what she was thinking as she undressed, she knew what she was thinking as she had foreplay, and she knew what she was thinking as she had her final destructive act of sex, that changed so many lives forever
> 
> She knew what she was doing, and before you do anything else---you need to get it out of her----and you really don't need a counselor at this point----just you and her---talk about why, what is really wrong, and what is needed to even attempt to go into a R.----This needs to come before anything else---otherwise you are just wasting each others time.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Walt

jnj express said:


> Somewhere thru all of this turmoil, and if YOU wanna try to R.---You have to get to the deep down CORE WHY---she did this
> 
> Your mge., can't be fixed, your wife can't be fixed, unless you know what to fix
> 
> She may give you the I don't know WHY line---but she sure as he*l knows what she was thinking every step of the way
> 
> She knew what she was thinking when she lied to you and said she was going to dinner with a friend, she knew what she was thinking as she drove to meet him---she knew what she was thinking as she went with him into whatever place they were at, she knew what she was thinking as they made small talk, and flirted, she knew what she was thinking as she went to where ever he wanted to perform the sex with her, she knew what she was thinking as she undressed, she knew what she was thinking as she had foreplay, and she knew what she was thinking as she had her final destructive act of sex, that changed so many lives forever
> 
> She knew what she was doing, and before you do anything else---you need to get it out of her----and you really don't need a counselor at this point----just you and her---talk about why, what is really wrong, and what is needed to even attempt to go into a R.----This needs to come before anything else---otherwise you are just wasting each others time.


Absolutely. But like 8yrs said I don't think she can verbalize it, yet.

Only when we get to this point can we truly R. Anything else is just a band-aid.


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## Walt

Update:

My W has been more open and honest. NC has been established. W called OM2 to tell him. He actually dumped her before she could explain why she needed NC.  He didn't want the drama!

NC with OM1. Although I know she still thinks about him. 

We've been going to weekly MC and separate IC. In general we've been nicer, kinder and more considerate w/each other than in months.

However, today we hit a serious roadblock in MC. The MC asked what we wanted out of MC - were we looking to commit to the M or just deal with the issues so that we could end the M peacefully?

My response was that I needed to do what I could to try to repair the M. I didn't want to have regrets & (more importantly) I wanted to be able to tell my kids that Dad gave it 100%. I clearly stated that I don't know if R is possible, but I'm willing to try.

My W is still on the fence. She says she doesn't want to end the M, but she still feels this need to go out and get attention from other men. Her explanation is that she didn't have those experiences when younger and she needs them now.

Essentially, she wants to go out and be "single", yet still have me as a backup. Perhaps a limited separation, not a D. I've already told her and the MC that separation=D for me. 

The MC said that most, if not all, M's could not handle what she is asking for. That she is highly unlikely to get me to agree to that (duh!). That she would eventually need to make a choice - find some other way to fill this need or risk losing me.

Either way, she has 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I think she is going ask for the separation. Not now, but in a few months. 

Before you flame me or call her a *****, please help me with these questions.

1. For the WW - is normal to wavier on re-commit? It's been almost 3 weeks since D-day. Is this just withdrawal/confusion or something more? 

2. Other than continue to state separation=D, what can I do?  I implemented a pseudo 180, but I need to recommit to that. I'm working out more, lost weight, etc. W even commented on it. Told her I needed to get ready to date:rofl:. I'm spending more quality time with my kids.


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## bryanp

Has your wife finally admitted to the sex? If she remains dishonest then what is the point? By the way have the both of you been tested for STD's. The fact that she still wants to get attention from other men and go out really should be a deal breaker to you. I wish you luck.


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## Walt

bryanp said:


> Has your wife finally admitted to the sex? If she remains dishonest then what is the point?


She's been honest. 

My question really is about the inability to make a commitment in or out of the M.

Is that normal at this stage?


----------



## Shaggy

Walt given her history, does she have an OM3 in the wings that she's currently looking at or talking with? 

She sounds like she hasn't truly ended the outside relationships in her head and she is continuing to try an figure out how to return to her rediscovery life.

Is there true remorse in her, or frustration at having lost her affairs
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

The majority of unfaithful wives will fall in love with the man who is their lover. Even if they end the sexual part of their affair, the emotional part still is very much alive. The only way for it to die is to end all contact with their lover and to make the conscious choice to recommit to marital rebuilding. Without these two things in place, there is no hope for the marriage.


----------



## crossbar

Walt said:


> Update:
> 
> My W has been more open and honest. NC has been established. W called OM2 to tell him. He actually dumped her before she could explain why she needed NC.  He didn't want the drama!
> 
> NC with OM1. Although I know she still thinks about him.
> 
> We've been going to weekly MC and separate IC. In general we've been nicer, kinder and more considerate w/each other than in months.
> 
> However, today we hit a serious roadblock in MC. The MC asked what we wanted out of MC - were we looking to commit to the M or just deal with the issues so that we could end the M peacefully?
> 
> My response was that I needed to do what I could to try to repair the M. I didn't want to have regrets & (more importantly) I wanted to be able to tell my kids that Dad gave it 100%. I clearly stated that I don't know if R is possible, but I'm willing to try.
> 
> My W is still on the fence. She says she doesn't want to end the M, but she still feels this need to go out and get attention from other men. Her explanation is that she didn't have those experiences when younger and she needs them now.
> 
> Essentially, she wants to go out and be "single", yet still have me as a backup. Perhaps a limited separation, not a D. I've already told her and the MC that separation=D for me.
> 
> The MC said that most, if not all, M's could not handle what she is asking for. That she is highly unlikely to get me to agree to that (duh!). That she would eventually need to make a choice - find some other way to fill this need or risk losing me.
> 
> Either way, she has 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I think she is going ask for the separation. Not now, but in a few months.
> 
> Before you flame me or call her a *****, please help me with these questions.
> 
> 1. For the WW - is normal to wavier on re-commit? It's been almost 3 weeks since D-day. Is this just withdrawal/confusion or something more?
> 
> 2. Other than continue to state separation=D, what can I do?  I implemented a pseudo 180, but I need to recommit to that. I'm working out more, lost weight, etc. W even commented on it. Told her I needed to get ready to date:rofl:. I'm spending more quality time with my kids.


Cheaters tend to get a high with being with other people, they get drunk on the attention and the excitement of the danger of doing something that they KNOW they shouldn't be doing. Just like any street drug. I think you're right. I think she's more sorry about getting caught than she is about breaking your heart.

You went to marriage counseling, but she wasn't 100% on board with it at all. She was just going through the motions. When you caught her all she did was lie, lie and more lies.

Sorry dude, but nothing in your posts screams at me that she wants to fix this at all. Time to start working on yourself and protecting those kids from her destructive behavior.


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## bryanp

If she is still on the fence then that is all you need to know. She is clearly sending you a message that she does not want to stop living the single life behind your back. By the way you should not insist that the both of you get tested for STD's. 

It really sounds like you are now the back-up guy. If the roles had been reversed do you honestly think that she would be so accepting as you have been if you were involved with two different women behind your back?


----------



## Walt

crossbar said:


> Cheaters tend to get a high with being with other people, they get drunk on the attention and the excitement of the danger of doing something that they KNOW they shouldn't be doing. Just like any street drug. I think you're right. I think she's more sorry about getting caught than she is about breaking your heart.
> 
> You went to marriage counseling, but she wasn't 100% on board with it at all. She was just going through the motions. When you caught her all she did was lie, lie and more lies.
> 
> Sorry dude, but nothing in your posts screams at me that she wants to fix this at all. Time to start working on yourself and protecting those kids from her destructive behavior.


You're right. She's looking for that high. There is no OM3 (yet!). Currently, she's not able to live the single life as she is on lockdown.:rofl:

For clarification, when she got caught she told the truth. 

As Morituri stated - she hasn't made a conscious choice to stay in the M. Only a choice not to go. Is this normal? Is this a small positive? 

How much fence sitting is normal? How much time should I let this go on? Right now, she's being the dutiful wife and mom. Of course, this may just be temporary.

Fear for her plays into this. As a SAHM, she has no clue what it will take to maintain her cushy lifestyle. I know she is afraid of giving up the house, expensive car and plenty of spending money. The 3 kids also play a role.


----------



## the guy

The only thing that come to mind to the questions you have is being as positive and as attractive to your wife as possible. I know it sound like a reward, but she has made the effort to stay, even though its out of convience, my thinking here is giving her another good reason why she stuck around.

In may case, after d-day, the confrontation, after the NC, and the commit to R, I made an expensive effort to take her out and spend the time with my WW.

For us it may have been a little different, My W was waiting on me to start caring about her and the kids instead of my work.

Again for many it may sound like a rewards but my W has done the heavy lifting to help me heal so I feel, in my case it was diserving.

This perspective may not fit your sitch. but I offer it any way.


----------



## bryanp

I am sorry Walt but I meant to say that you should insist that the both of you be tested for STD's.


----------



## Jellybeans

As long as she's still in contact with the other men/lovers, you have no marriage. 

Tell her to sh!t or get off the pot. If she wsaffles or stays on the fence, file for divorce/separation. It shows yu that she is not 100% about the marriage. Iif that doesn't wake her up, nothing will.

The longer you stay with the status quo, the more she wil lose respect for you. She won't end the extramarital relationships because she knows there are zero consequences for her actions and she's not losing anything in the process if yOu stand idly by waiting for her.

NO Woman LIKES A DOORMAT.


----------



## crossbar

Walt said:


> You're right. She's looking for that high. There is no OM3 (yet!). Currently, she's not able to live the single life as she is on lockdown.:rofl:
> 
> For clarification, when she got caught she told the truth.
> 
> As Morituri stated - she hasn't made a conscious choice to stay in the M. Only a choice not to go. Is this normal? Is this a small positive?
> 
> How much fence sitting is normal? How much time should I let this go on? Right now, she's being the dutiful wife and mom. Of course, this may just be temporary.
> 
> Fear for her plays into this. As a SAHM, she has no clue what it will take to maintain her cushy lifestyle. I know she is afraid of giving up the house, expensive car and plenty of spending money. The 3 kids also play a role.


Your absolutely right, she has more of a fear of losing her lifestyle. House, car and not being able to see her kids when she wants to. What's telling is that she isn't more remorseful to you.


----------



## southernmagnolia

Walt said:


> Before you flame me or call her a *****, please help me with these questions.
> 
> 1. For the WW - is normal to wavier on re-commit? It's been almost 3 weeks since D-day. Is this just withdrawal/confusion or something more?
> 
> 2. Other than continue to state separation=D, what can I do?  I implemented a pseudo 180, but I need to recommit to that. I'm working out more, lost weight, etc. W even commented on it. Told her I needed to get ready to date:rofl:. I'm spending more quality time with my kids.


1. Yes it's normal, but you can nip in the bud by enforcing some rigid consequences. Cut off her comforts that you are providing. Don't be her friend nor her lover. She certainly isn't yours.

2. Again force consequences on her, meanwhile working on the possibility that you may divorce. Don't just talk the talk, live it. The 180 is what will save you and you have to become selfish for yourself to save your sanity and be a father for your kids.


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## Jellybeans

1. Super normal. And as long as you willingly act as a back up plan, they will keep playing you like a fiddle when convenient for them

2. You can't "do" anything to make her stop her ways. You CAN change the way you react to her by saying _"I am removing myself from this situation altogether because it doesn't work for me and you have made zero effort to work on our marriage. I am filing divorce because I will not live in a marriage where there are third, fourth and fifth parties... in an open marriage. I deserve better."_ Then you MUST follow through.

Don't FEAR losing her. Why would you want her anyway th eway she is acting. She has zero respect for you. Someone who loves you doesn't keep f-cking around on you and making no effort to commit to the marriage.


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## jnj express

Her back is agst. the wall---she has 3 kids, (forget you, for the moment)---and she still wants to be single---You have your answer---

If she wanted this mge., she would be moving heaven and earth to make things work---she sits and vasilates

Let her have her freedom, D., not Sep---maybe over the course of time she will get it out of her system, and if you don't have someone new by then, you can restart with her----at least she won't be cheating on you and the kids


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## Walt

She is making an effort in the M. Just not 100%. Probably closer to 75%.

I'm not afraid to lose her. In fact, sometimes I'll look at her and think, "who are you and why the F do I still want to be with you?" 

I think I really have two options:

1 - Be the H that she wants. Fill the needs that were missing. Prove that I can do it. Give her a reason to stick around.

2 - Pursue a D. See a lawyer, start making things uncomfortable financially. 

Option 1 rewards bad behavior. But it may keep the M together.

Option 2 definitely ends it. As long as she is making an effort, I don't think I can go here. When effort ceases or a new OM appears, I'm out.

Is there a 3rd option?

As for the 180, I'm doing most of it. The hardest for me is the acting happy and content. I'm not. It's not easy to hide my feelings.

Thanks for your advice.


----------



## Jellybeans

Option 1 is sad. Option 1 is filling/giving all her needs and not getting anything in return. And rewarding bad behavior. And if you need to give someone a "reason" to stay with you, even sadder.

You do fear losing her, even if you aren't admitting so. Which is why you're ok with accepting crumbs from her. 75% isn't 100%.


----------



## jnj express

You cannot just sweep it under the rug again, she will cheat again, as she knows you will just suck it up, and stay for whatever reason you want to convince yourself of, at the moment.----There MUST be boundaries, and consequences

You do not have a mge---you have a wife that is running wild, and you, a father that is responsible, innocent, and takes whatever she throws at you

Have you ever given her boundaries, and consequences

Have you ever actually put D., on the table---How do you know she won't come around if she is facing being alone, squarely in the face---alone as in single, divorced, with children, and a label of cheating wife---who must work one, maybe 2 jobs, and do everything by herself, that the 2 of you did as a couple

AND---what does she have to look forward to as to guys, there is no one out there, that will care for her as you do.---She is looking at guys with baggage, guys who want sex only, guys who want her to take care of them------There is little out there for her---believe me----AND SHE KNOWS THIS---is this the main reason you are getting the 75%.

You must do what is best for you, not her, and her 75% attempt to try to make this mge. work---what about love---is that anywhere in sight, or is that gone for good??


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Walt said:


> She is making an effort in the M. Just not 100%. Probably closer to 75%.
> 
> I'm not afraid to lose her. In fact, sometimes I'll look at her and think, "who are you and why the F do I still want to be with you?"


That's a good attitude to have.

To keep her will cost you a good amount of dignity and self respect. Being that she is not giving 100% yet I don't see how its worth it.

File for D (there's usually a waiting period anyway) to prod her to give 100% and you can decide later to not follow through with the D. Filing cost a little bit but it gives you more power and you don't have to finalize it.


----------



## Walt

jnj express said:


> Have you ever actually put D., on the table---How do you know she won't come around if she is facing being alone, squarely in the face---alone as in single, divorced, with children, and a label of cheating wife---who must work one, maybe 2 jobs, and do everything by herself, that the 2 of you did as a couple
> 
> AND---what does she have to look forward to as to guys, there is no one out there, that will care for her as you do.---She is looking at guys with baggage, guys who want sex only, guys who want her to take care of them------There is little out there for her---believe me----AND SHE KNOWS THIS---is this the main reason you are getting the 75%.
> 
> You must do what is best for you, not her, and her 75% attempt to try to make this mge. work---what about love---is that anywhere in sight, or is that gone for good??



D is squarely on the table. She's been asking about our finances and what money we have in savings, IRAs, etc.

As we were talking about D yesterday, I realized that she thinks that everything will be the same (kids, house, money) except I don't live there.

When I explained how it will work (sell the house, she gets a job, kids are put in after-school care, no more volunteer work, when lease is up no new luxury car, no shopping sprees, etc.) she broke down crying. Reality is starting to sink in.

Most of the $ we have was mine prior to M. From what I gather, she's not entitled to that. 

We're going to MC this week. In the meantime, I'll be looking into an attorney.

As for love - I think the only love left is the love of the memory of the relationship we once had. For me, her selfishness is quickly overwhelming those once happy memories.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Looks to me like you are being used Walt. She only wants you because of the life you provide. She wants another man. She will be cheating or looking to cheat until she finds one that can provide the financial security that you can.

I think you should talk to the lawyer. You have done all you can and should be proud of how you handled the situation.


----------



## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> D is squarely on the table. She's been asking about our finances and what money we have in savings, IRAs, etc.
> 
> *As we were talking about D yesterday, I realized that she thinks that everything will be the same (kids, house, money) except I don't live there.
> 
> When I explained how it will work (sell the house, she gets a job, kids are put in after-school care, no more volunteer work, when lease is up no new luxury car, no shopping sprees, etc.) she broke down crying. Reality is starting to sink in.*
> 
> Most of the $ we have was mine prior to M. From what I gather, she's not entitled to that.
> 
> We're going to MC this week. In the meantime, I'll be looking into an attorney.
> 
> As for love - I think the only love left is the love of the memory of the relationship we once had. For me, her selfishness is quickly overwhelming those once happy memories.


Wow.


----------



## Jellybeans

It's not surprising at all she thinks that way. 

Most waywards think divorce is a walk in the park with zero consequences, cut and dry, no grey areas, that they will have the divorce go exactly as they like/get what they want, that you will not be hurt (and if you are, God forbid!) and everyone walks away with a smile on their face. 

The sense of entitlement is astounding though not surprising. It's part of the Wayward Script.


----------



## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> She is making an effort in the M. Just not 100%. Probably closer to 75%.
> 
> I'm not afraid to lose her. In fact, sometimes I'll look at her and think, "who are you and why the F do I still want to be with you?"
> 
> I think I really have two options:
> 
> 1 - Be the H that she wants. Fill the needs that were missing. Prove that I can do it. Give her a reason to stick around.
> 
> 2 - Pursue a D. See a lawyer, start making things uncomfortable financially.
> 
> Option 1 rewards bad behavior. But it may keep the M together.
> 
> Option 2 definitely ends it. As long as she is making an effort, I don't think I can go here. When effort ceases or a new OM appears, I'm out.
> 
> Is there a 3rd option?
> 
> As for the 180, I'm doing most of it. The hardest for me is the acting happy and content. I'm not. It's not easy to hide my feelings.
> 
> Thanks for your advice.


I don't see an option where she is accountable. I don't see mention of her boundaries or of her meeting your needs. So no Option #1 is not a marriage. Option # 1 by itself is you being a doormat. You may not mean it that way but I just don't see what she is bringing to the table.

Have the affairs stopped?

I need to catch up on this thread ...


----------



## Walt

Entropy3000 said:


> I don't see an option where she is accountable. I don't see mention of her boundaries or of her meeting your needs. So no Option #1 is not a marriage. Option # 1 by itself is you being a doormat. You may not mean it that way but I just don't see what she is bringing to the table.
> 
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Option 1 is a doormat option. She is not meeting my needs and that is a requirement for R. Thanks for keeping me honest Entropy.
> 
> Option 2 is coming on strong.


----------



## Walt

Reimplemented 180 last night.

W is accusing me of being cold. Someone have a response to that?


----------



## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> Update:
> 
> My W has been more open and honest. NC has been established. W called OM2 to tell him. He actually dumped her before she could explain why she needed NC.  He didn't want the drama!
> 
> NC with OM1. Although I know she still thinks about him.
> 
> We've been going to weekly MC and separate IC. In general we've been nicer, kinder and more considerate w/each other than in months.
> 
> However, today we hit a serious roadblock in MC. The MC asked what we wanted out of MC - were we looking to commit to the M or just deal with the issues so that we could end the M peacefully?
> 
> My response was that I needed to do what I could to try to repair the M. I didn't want to have regrets & (more importantly) I wanted to be able to tell my kids that Dad gave it 100%. I clearly stated that I don't know if R is possible, but I'm willing to try.
> 
> *My W is still on the fence. She says she doesn't want to end the M, but she still feels this need to go out and get attention from other men. Her explanation is that she didn't have those experiences when younger and she needs them now.*
> 
> *Essentially, she wants to go out and be "single", yet still have me as a backup. Perhaps a limited separation, not a D. I've already told her and the MC that separation=D for me. *
> 
> The MC said that most, if not all, M's could not handle what she is asking for. That she is highly unlikely to get me to agree to that (duh!). That she would eventually need to make a choice - find some other way to fill this need or risk losing me.
> 
> Either way, she has 1 foot in and 1 foot out. I think she is going ask for the separation. Not now, but in a few months.
> 
> Before you flame me or call her a *****, please help me with these questions.
> 
> 1. For the WW - is normal to wavier on re-commit? It's been almost 3 weeks since D-day. Is this just withdrawal/confusion or something more?
> 
> 2. Other than continue to state separation=D, what can I do?  I implemented a pseudo 180, but I need to recommit to that. I'm working out more, lost weight, etc. W even commented on it. Told her I needed to get ready to date:rofl:. I'm spending more quality time with my kids.


OMG. Wow. She is just casually asking that you agree to an open marriage. She wants you to support her though. So what she is saying is that she wishes for you to willingly be cuckolded. 

This is way beyond waivering to re-commit. She is ok with humiliating you to the greatest degree a woman can do to a man.

I see the 180 as a prelude to finishing up the D. Doing the 180 does nothing that I can see to keep her from carrying out her plan to be single and yet have you support her. In fact it is what she wants.


----------



## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> She is making an effort in the M. Just not 100%. Probably closer to 75%.
> 
> I'm not afraid to lose her. In fact, sometimes I'll look at her and think, "who are you and why the F do I still want to be with you?"
> 
> I think I really have two options:
> 
> 1 - Be the H that she wants. Fill the needs that were missing. Prove that I can do it. Give her a reason to stick around.
> 
> 2 - Pursue a D. See a lawyer, start making things uncomfortable financially.
> 
> Option 1 rewards bad behavior. But it may keep the M together.
> 
> Option 2 definitely ends it. As long as she is making an effort, I don't think I can go here. When effort ceases or a new OM appears, I'm out.
> 
> Is there a 3rd option?
> 
> As for the 180, I'm doing most of it. The hardest for me is the acting happy and content. I'm not. It's not easy to hide my feelings.
> 
> Thanks for your advice.


I am not sure how you say she is 75% working on the marriage. This is only true if you are the 25% she wants out of the picture. She wants you economic support. She may or may not enjoy humiliating you. I cannot say, but that is what she is doing.

She is telling the truth about how she feels, but the truth is she wants other men and not you. Marriage to her is you supporting her in an open marriage.

I feel I am being cruel here. But you have given every effort. 

Let her go.

If you ever want to have a chance at R, you have to let her go. Wat you are doing in putting up with this is making yourself less attractive to her and the OM more alluring. 

I hear that she is on lockdown. I have no idea what that means for a SAHM if you are at work. But you cannot force a person to love you. You can only insiust that her behavior is not acceptable. She has even to the counselor stated she wants other men. She is encouraged and empowered by your fence sitting. She sees this as a weakness and an opportunity to exploit you further. 

You have to carry through with letting her go to ever have a chance to R. BUT, that should not be the reason for doing this. You need to focus on preparing yourself to move on.

If you accept her behavior she will be more emboldened to behave more radically adn rub your face in it. She will expect you to pay for her affairs. Trips and so on.


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## Shaggy

Walt be careful with the 180 she will possibly see it as you having a hissyfit. Remember you need to project alpha not wounded sad beta
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> Entropy3000 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see an option where she is accountable. I don't see mention of her boundaries or of her meeting your needs. So no Option #1 is not a marriage. Option # 1 by itself is you being a doormat. You may not mean it that way but I just don't see what she is bringing to the table.
> 
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Option 1 is a doormat option. She is not meeting my needs and that is a requirement for R. Thanks for keeping me honest Entropy.
> 
> Option 2 is coming on strong.
> 
> 
> 
> Walt, you know how much I hate to see this. You also know how much I wanted to see you able to get in front of this to stop it from going to a PA. She was just hell bent on smashing her vows. Very sad.
> 
> Start thinking about yourself. Be a good father for your children.
Click to expand...


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> Walt be careful with the 180 she will possibly see it as you having a hissyfit. Remember you need to project alpha not wounded sad beta
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My attitude is more "I need to get ready to move on" vs. I'm pissed at you.


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## Walt

UPDATE:

Quick history -W had EA with OM1 (started 12 months ago, EA ended), makeout session with OM2 in August (NC with OM2).

Married 16 yrs, 3 kids under 11. We've been in MC since June. 

She moved out for a trial separation for 1 month starting December 1.

*Today is D-day #2. Just found out there has been two ONS (OM3 and OM4) since early November. She does not know that I know about them.*

I'm going to file for D. 

Here are my questions:

Should I confront now or hold my powder until I get the lawyer set up. I have an attorney, but won't be able to get anything going until probably Tuesday or Wednesday. I think I'd like to control the D process

We have a family trip scheduled leaving next Friday. It is non-refundable. I would hate to disappoint the kids who have been looking forward to the beach. I think I could hold my tongue until we get back prior to Xmas. Perhaps telling her I'm filing on Xmas would be some sort of justice.

Thoughts?


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## Eli-Zor

Confront her , go on the break without her and let her experience what is going to happen in the future . Use this time without her to bond with your children. There is no nead for you to hold your tongue for her , she has no remorse nor does she care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

I agree, confront her and tell her she is not welcome on the family trip. She can tell the kids why she isn't coming along.

I'm sorry Walt, I had been rooting for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

How dd you find out about 3 & 4? Where they random pick ups or actual relationships?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

If I confront her, she will prevent the kids from going on the trip. I don't want to traumatize them any more than I have to.

Also, what about the element of surprise w/regard to the attorney?

Confronting her won't change anything, we're done. OR am I missing something?


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> How dd you find out about 3 & 4? Where they random pick ups or actual relationships?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Saw her email. 

OM3 is a random friend of a friend of a friend who lives out of state. She seeks validation from others and he gave it to her. OM3 will be back in town this week. I know she has plans to see him (don't forget she's living elsewhere this month). They've been sexting since Nov.

OM4 is someone she worked w/10+ yrs ago. Frankly, I'm shocked b/c he always was such a stand-up family guy. Guess not.


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## HerToo

Don't tell her you are filing on Christmas day. That will give the kids a memory they don't need. Wait a few days.

Sorry this happened to you.


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## Shaggy

Well confrontation and the attorney ate teo separate things. 

Confront, tell her she's not coming on the trip, that she really doesn't want to be around you for a week. Tell her this will give her more time to explore her feelings without you.

Then when you've got the D papers ready have her served, so you still get your big shock to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

Walt said:


> Saw her email.
> 
> OM3 is a random friend of a friend of a friend who lives out of state. She seeks validation from others and he gave it to her. OM3 will be back in town this week. I know she has plans to see him (don't forget she's living elsewhere this month). They've been sexting since Nov.
> 
> OM4 is someone she worked w/10 yrs ago. Frankly, I'm shocked b/c he always was such a stand-up family guy. Guess not.


Any way you could arrange to be there and catch them?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> Any way you could arrange to be there and catch them?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why bother?:scratchhead:

Doesn't change the result...


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## Shaggy

Walt said:


> Why bother?:scratchhead:
> 
> Doesn't change the result...


No, but it will run their party.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> No, but it will run their party.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He'll be in town for several days and she has lots of free time. Ruining it one night might be a short term victory in a long-term war.

I'm thinking I keep my mouth shut, enjoy the trip with my kids and surprise her with D papers on Xmas.


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## Shaggy

Walt, how could you be with her for the trip knowing what she has done, and what she is going to o this week?

How can you sit back this week knowing she is going to cheat more and then go on a family trip?

You'll be angry and hateful just being around her. And if anything happens to her, you'd be a prime suspect. Better to confront, she'll be enough in shock shell agree to not her not going.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered

and expose the crap outta those OM


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## Shaggy

Yes, don't forget to spread the love to the OMW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

Almostrecovered said:


> and expose the crap outta those OM


Yeah - OM3 is D (4 kids!) but has a serious long-term GF. OM4 is M w/4 kids.


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## Shaggy

Walt, 

Expose to their wives ASAP, especially 3. It may let her try to save her marriage before he goes farther. Give her that chance.

Don't even tell your wife, just wait to see if she says anything to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walt

Shaggy said:


> Walt, how could you be with her for the trip knowing what she has done, and what she is going to o this week?
> 
> How can you sit back this week knowing she is going to cheat more and then go on a family trip?
> 
> You'll be angry and hateful just being around her. And if anything happens to her, you'd be a prime suspect. Better to confront, she'll be enough in shock shell agree to not her not going.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, I'm feeling peaceful right now. 

In my IC last week, I discussed getting D and how I knew I had to do it - I've just been wavering b/c there seemed to be a small glimmer of hope. I've been mentally prepared for this for 2 months as I had a bad feeling about OM3 (similar pattern as OM2, raised it in MC, was told "he's just a friend.")

I'm relieved to find this info. Now I can D w/o any regrets or 2nd thoughts. 

I'll just continue the 180 and focus on the kids. It will be their last memory of a complete family. 

Right now, I think I can keep it together. Of course, who knows what tomorrow will bring.

As for her continuing to cheat, the horse has already left the barn. We're not having sex so I'm not worried about STDs.


----------



## calif_hope

Walt, my advice such ad it is.

Expose now, tell it's over and take kids on the trip, tell her she will have more time with OM3 or OM4 or to go out and find OM5-10.

Insist taking the kids, hardball, ask why she would want to ruin their trip when she already ruined the family.

Before you leave change the locks on your house, take and secure important papers, get someone to watch your house and secure/separate your finances.

Just tell her it's over, her fig will not see divorce.....let the process server bring reality.

Talk to your lawyer to not only start the divorce but to also amend the separation agreement that states absolutely no OM (who ever is the current flavor) contact with your children........make very clear she is no longer her friend and only conversation will be about kids and divorce.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walt

calif_hope said:


> Walt, my advice such ad it is.
> 
> 
> Insist taking the kids, hardball, ask why she would want to ruin their trip when she already ruined the family.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I want to avoid traumatizing my 3 kids (all under 11) at all costs. Things are going to be tough enough for them soon. She will go berserk if I try to take them. 

Its a plane ride so it's not like I can just throw them in the car and drive away. 

That to me is worth more than my ego/pride. What is another week? On the other hand, am I just being foolish?


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## calif_hope

A more.........as a child of divorce I knew fake when I saw it.....knew as a 8 year old that my family was gone no mater the forced holidays and family Saturday's --- I could see the pain and hurt in my dads eyes and the hate in my moms eyes and actions and later regret fir what she had done...

These days of my parents trying to make a happy memory did't work, caused only pain and hurt in my brother and I - made it worse, it was unbearable. My brother tried to commit suicide during this time.

I believe with all my heart and soul that this trip, you and your kids creating NEW memories is more important, healing, bonding, healthy.......they need to know that they have at least one solid and stable parent.

Think about it.......do you really believe that the stress of what is currently happening will not come out - that your kids won't see it.....if you do you and your soon to bevel wife will deserve Oscars, Grammys, and Golden Globes for acting!

Good luck, stay sane!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walt

calif_hope said:


> A more.........as a child of divorce I knew fake when I saw it.....knew as a 8 year old that my family was gone no mater the forced holidays and family Saturday's --- I could see the pain and hurt in my dads eyes and the hate in my moms eyes and actions and later regret fir what she had done...
> 
> These days of my parents trying to make a happy memory did't work, caused only pain and hurt in my brother and I - made it worse, it was unbearable. My brother tried to commit suicide during this time.
> 
> I believe with all my heart and soul that this trip, you and your kids creating NEW memories is more important, healing, bonding, healthy.......they need to know that they have at least one solid and stable parent.
> 
> Think about it.......do you really believe that the stress of what is currently happening will not come out - that your kids won't see it.....if you do you and your soon to bevel wife will deserve Oscars, Grammys, and Golden Globes for acting!
> 
> Good luck, stay sane!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



That's a lot to think about. Thanks for you opinion. I don't know what I'd do w/o TAM.


----------



## JustaJerk

> I'm thinking I keep my mouth shut, enjoy the trip with my kids and *surprise her with D papers on Xmas*.


I like this one. I'd get a huge box- like if it was a big gift- fill its contents with the divorce papers, wrap it up with a nice bow and all and give it to her last minute. As soon as she opens it, and looks at the documents you whisper in her ear "_I know about OM3 & OM4... Merry Christmas_."


----------



## the guy

:iagree:
Walt,
Your doing a solid for the kids, right on dude, I bet it will be tough but just keep repeating to your self that its not about her any more but this trip is for the kids.

Face it, physicaly she will be on the trip, but we all know she will be neck deep with her cell and all her text. So as shes texting away take the kids and do things and let her know you will meet up with at such and such a place and go out.

I can only hope she puts her texting on hold and " does it for the kids" not likely but at this point does it matter if she sit on the beach all day by her self while you build sand castle with the kids, for that matter she can sit in the room all day while you enjoy your time with the kids....It really doesn't matter at this point. 
So go have fun with the kids and leave her to her vises,its not even worth the effort. Let her be. It will be her choice to join the family....you just go out and have fun with the youngens, while she sinks her self deeper and deeper.

Remember to keep track of her time spend with the texting versus time spent with the kids. It may not matter but itmay come in handy to have that ammo.


----------



## Shaggy

Do warn om3s gf so she can call him out. She might save her relationship if you can warn her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Walt

the guy said:


> :iagree:
> Walt,
> Your doing a solid for the kids, right on dude, I bet it will be tough but just keep repeating to your self that its not about her any more but this trip is for the kids.
> 
> Face it, physicaly she will be on the trip, but we all know she will be neck deep with her cell and all her text. So as shes texting away take the kids and do things and let her know you will meet up with at such and such a place and go out.
> 
> I can only hope she puts her texting on hold and " does it for the kids" not likely but at this point does it matter if she sit on the beach all day by her self while you build sand castle with the kids, for that matter she can sit in the room all day while you enjoy your time with the kids....It really doesn't matter at this point.
> So go have fun with the kids and leave her to her vises,its not even worth the effort. Let her be. It will be her choice to join the family....you just go out and have fun with the youngens, while she sinks her self deeper and deeper.
> 
> Remember to keep track of her time spend with the texting versus time spent with the kids. It may not matter but itmay come in handy to have that ammo.


Thanks. I'm hoping I have the strength to pull it off. 

I just got home to an empty house. Kids are at a friends house, WW is at a charity event (no OMs there). Anyway, I felt like crying as I came in. My anxiety just jumped 10X. I need to get this under control.

After speaking w/my IC and a friend who went through a D recently, they both advised I think with my head and hold off exposure until I can get my game plan together vs. the emotional response of telling her to fvck off.

I need to get the attorney lined up and move some money around so she can't get to it. I want to figure out which credit cards I can/should cancel and how to manage paying bills.


----------



## Walt

Shaggy said:


> Do warn om3s gf so she can call him out. She might save her relationship if you can warn her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When? Before this week? My STBXW already had a ONS with OM3. 

I don't know OM3 or his GF. I;ll let her know when I drop the D on my W. Letting her know beforehand will tip off my STBXW.


----------



## Beowulf

I think the trip is a bad idea. You think you can keep your emotions in check but if you can't then you tip her off before you can get your finances in order for the D. My advice is to cancel the trip, get your house in order and then have her served the divorce papers at one of the charity events she seems to hold so dear. Then contact the OMW and let them know what is going on.


----------



## Walt

Beowulf said:


> I think the trip is a bad idea. You think you can keep your emotions in check but if you can't then you tip her off before you can get your finances in order for the D. My advice is to cancel the trip, get your house in order and then have her served the divorce papers at one of the charity events she seems to hold so dear. Then contact the OMW and let them know what is going on.


I should have most of it done by Tue. The lawyer can help me with the rest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

Separation after D-day almost always spells divorce. She's going through what looks like a female MLC where she's desperate for outside male validation of her desirability as a woman, that she doesn't care that it is going to cost her marriage and her family. 

Don't be surprised if she has a mental breakdown later on. It happened to my ex-wife a year and half after our divorce became finalized, it just happened to oldmitten's wife after he filed for divorce, it happened recently to Badblood's wife, Ahhhhman's ex-wife and I have no doubt that it will happen to other women as well who follow a similar path. I hope that you can convince your stbxw to get professional help not just for her well being but that of her children as well. As much as it may seem like the karma justice bus running over them, it is a terrible thing to witness the destruction of someone who we once loved above all others.


----------



## the guy

Never reveal your game plan, I heard this many of time on TAM. Quitely make the plan, then work the plan. Its not worth the drama any more so hold your cards close until everything is in place.


----------



## Walt

morituri said:


> Separation after D-day almost always spells divorce. She's going through what looks like a female MLC where she's desperate for outside male validation of her desirability as a woman, that she doesn't care that it is going to cost her marriage and her family.
> 
> Don't be surprised if she has a mental breakdown later on. It happened to my ex-wife a year and half after our divorce became finalized, it just happened to oldmitten's wife after he filed for divorce, it happened recently to Badblood's wife, Ahhhhman's ex-wife and I have no doubt that it will happen to other women as well who follow a similar path. I hope that you can convince your stbxw to get professional help not just for her well being but that of her children as well. As much as it may seem like the karma justice bus running over them, it is a terrible thing to witness the destruction of someone who we once loved above all others.


Thanks for your advice morituri. 

I look @ my STBXW with pity and sadness. She is definitely going through MLC. She is rebelling against me and our marriage. She is sowing her oats that she didn't do in her 20s.

I read this and it fits completely:
Rebellion

She has been in her own IC. Her IC knows about her affair and I guess is supporting it. I can't even imagine....

We separated b/c I told her I wasn't going to stay in limbo for much longer. She knew she had a deadline, so she demanded a 1 month separation. 

I truly believe in her twisted head that she thinks she's just experimenting and will try to come back to me. Its similar to what happened to OM2 - she thought she could do it, move on and no one would get hurt. She just never thought she would get caught.

OM3 & 4 are not relationship potential. OM3 lives 2000+ miles away and OM4 is M. In her f'd mind, they are "safe" b/c she can't have them.


----------



## Walt

the guy said:


> Never reveal your game plan, I heard this many of time on TAM. Quitely make the plan, then work the plan. Its not worth the drama any more so hold your cards close until everything is in place.


That's my plan. If I confront prior to the trip, I will tip her off. Interrupting her and OM3 on Tuesday might make my ego feel better but doesn't change the facts that I am filing.


----------



## Shaggy

Walt said:


> When? Before this week? My STBXW already had a ONS with OM3.
> 
> I don't know OM3 or his GF. I;ll let her know when I drop the D on my W. Letting her know beforehand will tip off my STBXW.


Ok, then c-block them. Without tipping of your hand, tell her you can't be with the kids, etc. Really really make their hookup hard. Even if you have to show up at the same place.

Heck, if you think about it, this will be your last chance to mess with her like this. After you drop the bomb, she'll be outta reach.


----------



## the guy

Really, whats one more fling, screw it, stay stong knowing there is an end to a means. Let her crap role off your back knowing that a reckoning is coming, a very big reckoning.

Her little hook won't mean crap compared to the life aultoring event that is coming her way.


God knows it will be tough as hell, but it takes fire to make steel, don't forget that.


----------



## the guy

Shaggy, I like the way you think


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## Shaggy

the guy said:


> Really, whats one more fling, screw it, stay stong knowing there is an end to a means. Let her crap role off your back knowing that a reckoning is coming, a very big reckoning.
> 
> Her little hook won't mean crap compared to the life aultoring event that is coming her way.
> 
> 
> God knows it will be tough as hell, but it takes fire to make steel, don't forget that.


Understood - It's just my nature to interrupt cheaters. Can't help myself.


----------



## morituri

Do you think that it might be better if you were to serve her the divorce papers in front of her IC? I ask because if there is a professional therapist there with her, the likelihood that she might do something to hurt herself, could go down significantly. Just something for you to consider.


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## the guy

M- that make good sense. IMO next IC after the trip serve her at IC, atleast the server will know were shes at.


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> Ok, then c-block them. Without tipping of your hand, tell her you can't be with the kids, etc. Really really make their hookup hard. Even if you have to show up at the same place.
> 
> Heck, if you think about it, this will be your last chance to mess with her like this. After you drop the bomb, she'll be outta reach.


I made her move out for the separation. I don't have access to where she is. He's probably staying in a hotel.

Even if I do that, he's in town for a few days. She'll have Tuesday night, most of Wed and even Thur before the trip. I could c-block for a few hours, but it wouldn't matter.

I just don't need the drama or want to spend the energy on that. I need to get the plan in motion and find out how to protect my kids from her inevitable break down.


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## warlock07

try postponing the trip. It is a bad idea to go now..


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## crossbar

Well, if you're going to present her with D papers on X-mas, you might as well do in style. Talk to the Process Server and pay him a few extra bucks to dress as Santa Claus.

"HO HO HO!!!!......you've been served."


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## the guy

Postponing the trip will only make it harder to take the kids later on. 

Its going to take steel to get through Tue, Wed, and Thur. but if he can be indifferent and strong enough he can have a good time with the kids. He will for sure have a bad taste in his mouth, but if he's stronge enough then go thru with the trip.

Walt,
Aviod the early conflict and have a good time with the kids. Emotionaly speaking, she won't be there any way so go have a good time.

If it is set in stone and clear in Walts mind that no matter what from this day forward his WW will no longer define him then there should be a trip.

Walt,
You guys are seperated, let her get her own ride to the beach/airport. If she show fine, if not great. Just an option. I wouldn't wait for her she's seperated she's a big girl now, she can find her own way to the airport.

You'll have to be strong, just look thru her and focus on the kids, most likely there will be a tiff or two, just manage it knowing there is a end to the means.

Sabatoge her carry on, I'm thinking drugs or a gun, heheheh


----------



## Shaggy

You arrange to have her served at the airport on the return home? Or is that too evil.

Don't do the santa thing - that will really mess with your kids.


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## hurtnohio

the guy said:


> Sabatoge her carry on, I'm thinking drugs or a gun, heheheh


I know this is a joke, but I'm not sure I'd recommend that even as a joke. I work for an airline. We had something similar happen once, the cops figured it out and arrested the spouse who had been cheated on. Cancelled two of our flights and closed down two different airports (the one where the flight originated and the hub that flight was going to). Don't end up going to federal prison and cancelling flights over the holidays because of your wife's stupidity!


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## crossbar

Shaggy said:


> You arrange to have her served at the airport on the return home? Or is that too evil.
> 
> Don't do the santa thing - that will really mess with your kids.


 If they're seperated for 1 month and she left 1 December, that means she won't be home yet. Still a few days to go.


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## ShootMePlz!

Maybe tell her hey I got a call from OM's wife and she was hysterical....saying husband cheated on her and they may be divorcing etc. But needs to talk to me and wants me to call her back!!! 

Waiting is a misstake do it now let her be the bad guy if she wants to cancel the trip.


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## warlock07

What is this obsession with serving her? Doesn't matter, family ruined.


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## lordmayhem

Sorry you stayed in limbo for this long. So who is financing this 1 month separation that she demanded? Are you still paying for her bills? The lease on her new luxury vehicle? 

You said that if you confronted her, that she would prevent the kids from going. There's no legal way she can do that. Even if she called the cops, they wouldn't be able to do anything. There's no child custody order signed by a judge. You can bring the kids anywhere you want to until then.


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## Walt

lordmayhem said:


> Sorry you stayed in limbo for this long. So who is financing this 1 month separation that she demanded? Are you still paying for her bills? The lease on her new luxury vehicle?
> 
> You said that if you confronted her, that she would prevent the kids from going. There's no legal way she can do that. Even if she called the cops, they wouldn't be able to do anything. There's no child custody order signed by a judge. You can bring the kids anywhere you want to until then.


She;s a SAHM - I'm paying for everything. Luckily her lease on her car runs out this summer. She's been asking me what car she should get next. :rofl:

She can't legally prevent it, but she would have no problem making a huge scene in front of the 3 kids. For all practical purposes I don't think I would be able to just take them without having to call the cops (which is not an option).

My biggest reason not to confront right now is so I can buy time to get the attorney and finances in order without tipping her off. I also need to figure out how to tell the kids.


----------



## Walt

the guy said:


> Postponing the trip will only make it harder to take the kids later on.
> 
> Its going to take steel to get through Tue, Wed, and Thur. but if he can be indifferent and strong enough he can have a good time with the kids. He will for sure have a bad taste in his mouth, but if he's stronge enough then go thru with the trip.
> 
> Walt,
> Aviod the early conflict and have a good time with the kids. Emotionaly speaking, she won't be there any way so go have a good time.
> 
> If it is set in stone and clear in Walts mind that no matter what from this day forward his WW will no longer define him then there should be a trip.




I've been in limbo for 4 months. As they say, limbo is hell. It has drained me emotionally and spiritually.

Limbo + 180 have helped me emotionally detach from my STBXH. I am in SO much better shape to handle this then I was a few months ago.

Last night, she unexpectedly showed up at the house (after the kids were asleep) to drop something off one of the kids forgot in her car.

She walked in and was lightly sobbing. She moved to give me a hug. My anxiety jumped briefly, but then went back to normal. I hugged her back. After 5 seconds, I let go. She held on for 10 more (seemed like an eternity). Finally, she let go. 

She said how much she missed me at the holiday party she went to and wished I was there w/her. (she is on the board of this charity. it was for the staff, no spouses were invited).

She then went on to ask what the plans were for this weekend. I told her what the kids and I were doing. She quickly realized she's not involved in what I planned. Told her she's free to join us, but I didn't know what her plans were.

She lingered by the front door, continuing to lightly sob. Waiting for me to rescue her. To hold her. To comfort her. Like the old Walt did for years. Sorry, b*tch, that train has left the station. I let her leave w/o a word.

2 minutes later, she calls me. I pickup. She is upset that I didn't hug her back (I did) and that I pushed her away (no, I was done). Her hug was an "I love/miss you" hug. Mine was a "good to see you friend" hug. After several minutes of awkward silence, I told her I'd see her tomorrow (she has to drive carpool). She hung up.


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## lordmayhem

Walt said:


> She;s a SAHM - I'm paying for everything. Luckily her lease on her car runs out this summer. She's been asking me what car she should get next. :rofl:


That's what I thought. From reading all the stories in all the forums, I've noticed that when SAHMs cheat, they're usually the most delusional, having not been in the work force for a while. The vast majority of them seem to have this idea that their BH will continue to pay for everything, in essence, everything will stay the same...except you're no longer there and they're free to do what they want and simply have OM move in.



Walt said:


> She can't legally prevent it, but she would have no problem making a huge scene in front of the 3 kids. For all practical purposes I don't think I would be able to just take them without having to call the cops (which is not an option).


Seriously? What would she say? "Kids! Your Dad doesn't want me to go on vacation with you because I've been banging my boyfriend! I want you to stay here with me and keep me company while my boyfriend comes over!"



Walt said:


> My biggest reason not to confront right now is so I can buy time to get the attorney and finances in order without tipping her off. I also need to figure out how to tell the kids.


Fair enough. As long as you're getting your ducks in a row, you should have your lawyer draw up the temporary child custody order, that way there's a signed court order granting you full custody. This will help during the D, because most judges are reluctant to overturn an pre-existing custody order.


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## F-102

So funny how many W that leave their H think that they are going to "get everything".

Let's see how she likes having to work minimum wage jobs, be driving a beater, having to buy clothes at Wal-Mart only when they're on sale, having to fend for herself, etc...

And someday, my 50 smelly cat analogy may come true.

You know what would have been good? You telling her that "It's the strangest thing, but OM#4's W told me that he had this case of genital warts for the last two months..."


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## Numb-badger

I love the 50 smelly cats image


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## Saffron

So sorry you're having to go through this Walt, your wife will realize someday what she lost.

I'm on the fence about whether or not it's a good idea to still do your trip as planned. Not that it's my decision, but I really wish you could do it with just you and the kids. I would hate for them to look back on that trip someday and think you and your wife were being deceptive by doing a "family" vacation right before getting divorced.

The only reason I say this is because my husband's parents told him and his sister about their plans to divorce right after the Christmas holiday. My H was around 9 and his sister 5. They all flew to visit the Grandparents, celebrated like everything was normal, then were told they were staying there (in another state from home) and Dad was flying back alone. The news of his parents impending divorce eclipsed any joy or fun he had over Christmas. Years later he still looks back and wonders how they could just pretend everything was fine and what a joke of a holiday it was that year.

Hmmmmm, I'll have to ask my H what he thinks of your situation. He may be a BS, but he is a child of a marriage ending due to infidelity (his Dad left his Mom for the OW) and might have some insight.


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## Saffron

I asked my H and he says as a kid he only remembers living in the moment. He said it took years for him to look back at that particular holiday as being "bad" because of the divorce. So I guess it would depend on the ages of your kids and their personalities on how they'll remember the trip. My H's opinion was if you could handle it, then give the kids a fun trip with you and their Mom. But only if you can handle it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

Saffron said:


> I asked my H and he says as a kid he only remembers living in the moment. He said it took years for him to look back at that particular holiday as being "bad" because of the divorce. So I guess it would depend on the ages of your kids and their personalities on how they'll remember the trip. My H's opinion was if you could handle it, then give the kids a fun trip with you and their Mom. But only if you can handle it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for your input and concern.

A lot of people have questioned my ability to pull this off. I hear you, believe me I do.

She showed up at the house yesterday for a few hours. I didn't feel the anxiety like I briefly did the day before (D-day 3?). She hung out with the kids and we even played a game as a family for 45 minutes or so. I was fine. She was very tense, snapping at the kids. Once she left, I could see the kids visibly relax. (this scared me).

Even though she's been gone for 2 weeks, I feel much closer to my kids. They are talking and sharing more. I'm a better dad b/c I can focus on them and not my STBXWs shenanigans. 

My IC wonders if I not confronting due to me being a Nice Guy. I've read the book and have been following it. I don't think so. She doesn't matter anymore. I know the truth and there is no way to spin it. Anything she does moving forward is her deal, not mine, not ours. I'm trying to be a "good ender" as NMMNG talks about.

She can't make me angry, she can't make me emotional in any way. We're done. Cord cut. The end.

Due to the trip, I'm going to have a short week. I want to get the attorney set up and finances in order. Also, I'm not ready to drop the bomb on my kids. 

Lets say I confront. I take the kids on the trip, she stays. Now, she's going to be alone w/access to the house for a week and will get her attorney moving. I'd probably come home to an empty house and empty bank accounts. I'd also have to explain to my kids why Mom isn't coming with. My oldest will figure that out quickly.

Maybe I'm kidding myself and I'm just surpressing my emotions. Its possible. I've always been a rational, calm person. I'm trying not to act out of anger, but out of strength. 

Confronting her now might make my ego feel better, but won't change the past. It won't change the present. It will, however, likely harm my ability to plan/control my future.


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## aug

FWIW, I think you're on the right track. You're closest to your situation so that helps. And you've detached emotionally, so decisions you make now should be more rational.


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## morituri

Have you considered filing for temporary custody? Her leaving the family home is often considered abandonment and can greatly improve your chances of getting primary custody of the kids.


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## Chaparral

Saffron said:


> Hmmmmm, I'll have to ask my H what he thinks of your situation. He may be a BS, but he is a child of a marriage ending due to infidelity (his Dad left his Mom for the OW) and might have some insight.


On a side note, how long did the relationship between his dad and OM last?


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## Chaparral

Good luck Walt,praying for your family. You sound like you have handled a terrible situ as well as anyone could be expected to. So very sorry you have to do this but I don't see any alternative. I wish everyone could man up as well as you. Trust your gut and stay well. Your children are lucky to have at least one good parent, many don't have even that. You're taking backbone to a new high. Thanks


----------



## Walt

chapparal said:


> Good luck Walt,praying for your family. You sound like you have handled a terrible situ as well as anyone could be expected to. So very sorry you have to do this but I don't see any alternative. I wish everyone could man up as well as you. Trust your gut and stay well. Your children are lucky to have at least one good parent, many don't have even that. You're taking backbone to a new high. Thanks


Thanks chapparal - always appreciate your input.

I don't think there is any alternative. I spoke with a friend of mine who was in a similar situation with his now exW. She had a EA/PA with a couple friend of theirs. (broke up 2 families). Anyway, he said that it feels great to throw the WW under the bus, but it doesn't solve anything and will only make it worse b/c you still have to resolve the finances and, more importantly, the kids. He has been a guiding light for me in trying to be rational, unemotional, calm and deliberate.

As for manning up - I don't think I deserve that. I look back over my threads and see so many missed chances to man up. I made a ton of mistakes. I was too trusting, too scared of the future w/o her & the destruction of the family to crush this at the start. I failed in so many ways. 

That being said, she was hell bent on cheating. She pursued all of the OMs. She instigated the contact. After D-day, I offered the possibility of R. She took it and was somewhat convincing. I got gaslighted bad. But after so many years, you want to believe that your best friend and partner wouldn't fvck you over. Live and learn. Live and learn.


----------



## Walt

morituri said:


> Have you considered filing for temporary custody? Her leaving the family home is often considered abandonment and can greatly improve your chances of getting primary custody of the kids.


I;ll bring this up the atty when I speak to her.

I knew that, that's why I made her move out for the separation. I don't know if it will matter as she is a SAHM and has been for 11 yrs.


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## joe kidd

Walt you are too hard on yourself. I hope everything works out in your favor.


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## Shaggy

Walt - do not beat yourself up. You've done everything you could with her, she was and is hell bent on cheating. She can't even stick with one guy either. It's like she's just gone off the deepend and has lost any sense of right and wrong.


----------



## morituri

Walt said:


> I;ll bring this up the atty when I speak to her.
> 
> I knew that, that's why I made her move out for the separation. I don't know if it will matter as she is a SAHM and has been for 11 yrs.


Please don't forget to do that - bring it up with your attorney.

BTW if she has been a SAHM how is she paying for her apartment, her food, gas, etc.?


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## Walt

morituri said:


> Please don't forget to do that - bring it up with your attorney.
> 
> BTW if she has been a SAHM how is she paying for her apartment, her food, gas, etc.?


I'm the gravey train.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60

When a wife makes the decision to cheat ( and it is a choice that is made with eyes wide open) there is nothing you can do to stop it. This is not your fault in any way! Problems in a marriage can be addressed if both are willing. She was never willing to give you or your marriage a chance and actively went after other men.

Get your finances straight. Make sure she does not have access to your money. Get ready to cut all financial support. Talk to your attorney about what rights you have and what rights she has under the laws of your state. Protect yourself and your children.

Then pull the trigger and give her the freedom she has looked for without you and marriage.

Sorry you are in this mess. Stay strong for you and your children.


----------



## Walt

UPDATE:

Have appt. w/lawyer tomorrow.


@joe kidd, tdsc60, & Shaggy - thanks for the kind words.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Walt said:


> UPDATE:
> 
> Have appt. w/lawyer tomorrow.
> .


Play hardball , being nice gets you nowhere
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron

chapparal said:


> On a side note, how long did the relationship between his dad and OM last?


My H's Dad is still with the OW, they finally got married the year I met my husband (17 years ago). But I'm fairly sure my H's Dad has cheated on the OW at some point over the years. Two years ago they separated for about 6 months, but everything seems to be fine again. I don't see it as a blissful union, but now that they're "old" they're stuck with each other.

My H's Dad and Mom were not the best examples of fidelity in marriage. I guess they used to "swap" with neighbors, but I have no clue if this was before or during his Dad's affair with OW. To make matters worse, his Dad and Mom hooked up a few times after they started divorce proceedings. False reconciliation for the kids and his Dad essentially "cheating" on the OW, since she had no clue. 

My H witnessed some really f'ed up behavior and poor role modeling through his parents, he totally remembers his Dad being an @hole to his Mom. After d-day my H finally could see that he was on the fast track to being like his Dad with me. Why some people can overcome their past and not relive it, while others seem to repeat history baffles me.

Anyway, one's past is not an excuse for cheating but at least shows where some attention can be paid during counseling. Childhood isues? Yes!

Walt, it seems you're being a strong and stable parent for your children which is what they need. In my H's situation he felt abandoned by both parensts. His Dad lived in another state with the OW and her son, while his Mom had to scrape together every month to make ends meet. My H would watch her cry over overdue bills and used his own money from a paper route to buy after school snacks. This will not be your children. You're being proactive in making sure they feel safe and secure, which is what they need most from you at this time.


----------



## Saffron

Another side note . . . when my H was having his affair he would tell the OW he could never leave me, because he didn't want to be like his Dad. Boggles the mind how a cheater's brain works. As long as he didn't leave his wife and children, my husband was "not like his Dad". Never mind that you're sleeping with another woman and being an @hole just like your Dad. :scratchhead:

Sorry for the thread hijack!


----------



## Walt

Update:

Spoke with the atty. Paperwork underway. Advice was to keep quiet as long as I can so as not to trigger her defensive measures.


----------



## Walt

Update:

Back from vacation. Wasn't sure she was coming until the last day. She waffled and I told her it was OK with me that she didn't come. In the end she did. She didn't want to disappoint or explain to the kids....

I successfully avoided/deflected almost all relationship talk. Told her I was on vacation and that we could wait until we got back to talk.

As someone suggested, she was distracted most of the time texting OM3. It was very difficult not to take her phone and throw it into the ocean.

The upside was that I had virtually no interference from STBXW with regards to the kids. We played in the ocean, built sandcastles, etc. She sat on her deck chair, missing out on key moments. Hopefully, the kids will remember the trip fondly. I know I will treasure the time. 

Since we returned, I filed for D. After the papers were filed w/ the court, I let her know. As soon as I gave her the papers, she started to cry. She said she was sorry and left the house quickly.

A huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I know I did my best. I know I couldn't stop her cheating. I know that D was inevitable. 

My only regret is that she couldn't have acted in a more honorable way at the end. Her deceit will mar our co-parenting relationship for years to come. This (the deceit) hurts more than anything else.

I know I have a long way to go, but I feel like I've got my bearings and I'm heading in the best (only) direction I can.


----------



## Shaggy

So Walt are you going to expose her? Are you going to potentially post her on cheaterville? 

At this point it's not about revenge since you've taken the best choice available and filed.

But I'm worried about the other families she's going to destroy as she burns through men. These other families need to be warned about her.


----------



## Walt

Shaggy said:


> So Walt are you going to expose her? Are you going to potentially post her on cheaterville?
> 
> At this point it's not about revenge since you've taken the best choice available and filed.
> 
> But I'm worried about the other families she's going to destroy as she burns through men. These other families need to be warned about her.


She'll be exposed to those who matter most - our family and friends. She has been afraid of this since D-Day #1. 

I don't believe in cheaterville or public humiliation. 

I'm trying to maintain my integrity and take the high road. I probably will expose OM3. Not sure about OM4.


----------



## Shaggy

The rate she is burning through men is scary. Clearly she's not in love with them as she is able to hop from one to another easily.

So is she having a mid life breakdown? Is she decided she wants to be the town fluzzie? 

This behavior is going to burn her out, and it's going to set an awful example for this kids.

I say this because you should talk to your lawyer about it and things you can do to protect your children from the consequences of it too.

btw - does your wife also do any kind of drugs for fun? Is it possibly these guys she is with will expose your kids to that crap?


----------



## Walt

Shaggy said:


> So is she having a mid life breakdown?
> 
> This behavior is going to burn her out, and it's going to set an awful example for this kids.
> 
> I say this because you should talk to your lawyer about it and things you can do to protect your children from the consequences of it too.
> 
> btw - does your wife also do any kind of drugs for fun? Is it possibly these guys she is with will expose your kids to that crap?



Probably some form of MLC. She's looking for validation anywhere she can find it. That's what the OMs have in common. They make her feel good/pretty/desirable/etc.

She doesn't do drugs. But some of her "new" friends smoke pot.


----------



## calif_hope

Expose them all! It's not a violation of honor or integrity. The public stockade and the scarlet letter had a purpose and a value......exposing OM 1 through ........ has the purpose of allowing those in their lives (family, co- workers, & etc.) information on their integrity and honor and to make an informed decision to enter into relations or distance themselves.

In my life I was leaning to promote an individual, found that he had affairs with two married women, I promoted an other and glad I did. The cheater did damage to our firm by lieing to clients on the cause of delayed work (a lier is a lier a cheater is a lier) ...... We mitigated the damage and kicked him to the curb....if he had been promoted he could have caused damage that we couldn't fix.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unsure in Seattle

It sounds like you've done the best you could with a very difficult situation. You're much stronger than you realize. Don't be so hard on yourself, and best of luck.


----------



## warlock07

Why not the OM4?


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## Chaparral

Good luck Walt,I'm certain next Christmas and New Years will be a much happier time!


----------



## Walt

chapparal said:


> Good luck Walt,I'm certain next Christmas and New Years will be a much happier time!


Thanks Chapparal. Couldn't be worse, could it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ing

Hi walt
I haven't been able to look at your thread up until now because it made me trigger really badly. i think you have handled this admirably and fought long and hard for your M. 

My Dday was 10 months ago reality had hit for my ex wife.
She is working full time at a famous burger chain and trying to pay all the bills. 
She has been diagnosed with a serious illness and is now looking at her Om who seems less than enthusiastic to take on someone who is no fun and who works full time.

Now. She wants me back. I have almost no feelings for her other than friendly concern. It is a very odd feeling to have for someone I spent 25 years with and would have been their for until the end.

Just expect that this may happen. My wife is in MLC and it is horrible to watch a person destroy themselves, even from a distance.

Christmas can't be worse. Your right!


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## the guy

What I tell you, text and b*llsh*t, while you go have a good time.

That is so crappy, the only reason to go was so she didn't have to explain it all.

She wasn't realy there and it played out like I said. I'm glad you were prepared, I'm glad you went. I think if you weren't you would have made a seen. In stead you expected it and she...in the end lost out on one last time as a family.

Sad, but we all expected this, at least I did, I guess I've been there and it sucked, but in the end it was all about the kids, and she choose her path.

How ever upsetting it is that she didn't set down her cell for one moment for the kids, you now have a very clear direction in were you and the kids need to go.

Good luck man,


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## Walt

@ the guy - yep, she was very focused on her phone. It was soooo frustrating to not be able to say anything about it, yet liberating at the same time b/c I didn't have to deal with her.

Now that she's been served, I'm encountering a whole different set of issues.

I petitioned to be custodial parent. As a SAHM, if she fights it, she'll win (get the kids.) She's going to want them to soothe her ego. She can't be a bad mom/wife/person if she wants her kids, right?

I'm trying to get a handle on how much conversation I should have with her. She gets that we are no longer a "we." She knows not to ask me for anything unless it has to do with the kids. Small talk is out. 

I did get another apology tonight. Lots of tears. Whatever.


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## morituri

Walt said:


> I'm trying to get a handle on how much conversation I should have with her. She gets that we are no longer a "we." She knows not to ask me for anything unless it has to do with the kids. Small talk is out.


Aren't you answering your own question? :scratchhead:



> I did get another apology tonight. Lots of tears. Whatever.


She knows that she is responsible for destroying the marriage but is she is so addicted to the validation from men other than her stbxh.


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## Initfortheduration

How did she respond when you exposed her OM4? She has become a totally shiftless skank. If I were you, I would tell her that she should think about leaving the kids with you, since she is pretty much going heals up under any takers. She will not want the kids hanging around when she wants to have sex with these guys. Kids make it impossible to concentrate on an orgasm. Since you are aware of her dealings (and apparently are far less effected by then). Let her leave the kids, but document everything. She needs to get a job, that will cramp her sex life. And then she needs to see you happily moving on with your life. Best revenge, let her watch from outside the window on your life.


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## lordmayhem

She may not actually want the kids because they interfere with her new skank lifestyle...but she will want them for the child support. She's a SAHM, after all. She's not used to having to work to get money (no offense to the SAHM BS's here). She's used to having Walt finance her affairs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Walt

lordmayhem said:


> She may not actually want the kids because they interfere with her new skank lifestyle...but she will want them for the child support. She's a SAHM, after all. She's not used to having to work to get money (no offense to the SAHM BS's here). She's used to having Walt finance her affairs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She wants the kids. Two reasons - ego & money. 

Ego - she would be seen as a bad mom/person if she didn't have her kids. What upstanding, moral mother like her doesn't want her kids? :rofl: Her friends and the community would look down on her if she left them with me. She's guilty enough that should couldn't do this. The tragedy is that she doesn't see that I'd be better able to take care of them. I can keep the marital home, she can't. I can keep them in their school, she can't.

Money - she's a SAHM. She doesn't want to work. She wants the freedom I've given her to stay in place. She could keep volunteering, going to the gym, etc. Without child support, she's screwed. She'll have to get a job ASAP.


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## Shaggy

Walt, I hope you get the very best shark lawyer on your side.

Meanwhile how about exposing OM3 and OM4.


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## Walt

More apologies and tears when she picked up the kids this morning.

I basically got a full confession. I told her what I knew and she copped to it. There may be more, but I doubt it. I think she was relieved to tell the truth for once. She's always had a guilty conscience and this must have eaten her alive.

In a nutshell, she "loved me, but wasn't romantically in love with me" for over a year. We've been together our entire adult lives and she loved our life/family together. But, she was looking for that intimacy that was missing (and, I admit, after 3 kids it was). 

Since she never had a chance to really date others when we were younger, she thought that if she went out and had a fling or two, she could get it out of her system and refocus on us. :scratchhead: Of course, we know that never works.

She admitted that she was a coward, weak, stupid and deceitful. She said she wasn't honest in MC. She misled me b/c she wasn't ready to get a D. She thought a miracle would happen and one day she'd wake up and our problems would be solved. (How would that happen when she would never commit to working on them?) 

She told me I deserved better and that I would have never done what she did. That she regrets how she handled this and hopes I don't hate her b/c she still loves me, that I'm an amazing father and person. 

I told her I had zero respect for her. I don't hate her, but I don't trust her and don't really want anything to do with her. I told her that I can't argue with her feelings but her lies/deceit can't be erased. (cue more tears.)


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## Walt

Shaggy said:


> Walt, I hope you get the very best shark lawyer on your side.
> 
> Meanwhile how about exposing OM3 and OM4.


I have one of the best in town.

I will expose, but now isn't the time. I believe OM3 gave her the brush off and OM4 is married. Neither wants a relationship, just wanted to get laid.


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## Eli-Zor

> I believe OM3 gave her the brush off and OM4 is married


Be sure to let her family know of her cheating, today she cries tomorrow she gaslights you. Get this done as soon as.


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## aug

Walt said:


> I told her I had zero respect for her. I don't hate her, but I don't trust her and don't really want anything to do with her. I told her that I can't argue with her feelings but her lies/deceit can't be erased. (cue more tears.)



That's quite a healthy progress you have there.


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## Walt

Update:

Well, the sh*t keeps hitting the fan for STBXW. Seems that she has basically been abandoned by everyone. Her friends & family are all pretty upset by her behavior. While they are "there for her", they are just shocked by what she did.

Handing her the papers broke the fog. She's going to have to grow up and grow up fast. 

Surprisingly, she is being cooperative on the legal front. Looks like this will be worked out without too much conflict.

Once again, she tried to explain to me her twisted logic on why she did what she did. She recognizes now that it was absurd, deceitful and flat out wrong. That she destroyed the one normal, supportive relationship she had (ours). But she was so "confused" that it made sense then. She should have just left. Instead she tried to eat her cake and have it, too.

I've gone from disgust to pity. She truly is a lost soul.


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## Complexity

Expect alot of begging and pleading as the reality of the situation really sits in. Don't be depressed or have any pity, after 16 years of marriage you can pat yourself in the back for being a loving faithful husband, a devoted father with children that adore you for it and a person who's showed on more than one occasion a remarkable ability to forgive the unforgivable.

All that matters now are your children and YOUR happiness. You went above and beyond what was needed to save the marriage. Don't break now that she's seen the grass isn't greener on the other side. Men who mess around with married women are the scum of the earth and I'm afraid that's who your wife will be tossed between for a very long time. Enjoy your life now because it way too short to rekindle the past.

Stay strong and that crisp breathe of freedom will come your way very soon.


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## Walt

Complexity said:


> Expect alot of begging and pleading as the reality of the situation really sits in. Don't be depressed or have any pity, after 16 years of marriage you can pat yourself in the back for being a loving faithful husband, a devoted father with children that adore you for it and a person who's showed on more than one occasion a remarkable ability to forgive the unforgivable.
> 
> All that matters now are your children and YOUR happiness. You went above and beyond what was needed to save the marriage. Don't break now that she's seen the grass isn't greener on the other side. Men who mess around with married women are the scum of the earth and I'm afraid that's who your wife will be tossed between for a very long time. Enjoy your life now because it way too short to rekindle the past.



I don't foresee any begging for R. She knows I'm done. I think she's relieved it is over as well. The guilt was eating her alive.

I'm pushing forward - told her I want this D done quickly. She wants to drag it out "for the kids stability". Told her that she's wasted enough of my time already. 

I'm making plans for the future. My friends have been great - several who live out of town have asked me to come visit. This is something I never did while married.

I pity her b/c the chickens have come home to roost. Her actions destroyed most of her important relationships - me, my family, her family. Yes, the marriage was on life support and needed lots of help. But, as we all know, infidelity isn't the way to go.


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## the guy

Yes there is a reason to pity her. Years from now when she is alone with an apartment full of 100 cats, she will blame someone else for stepping on cat boo that has covered the entire floor.
She may or may not acknowledge her unhealthy life choices, but she will never say them out loud.

The kids will resent her.

You of course will not be around b/c only the good die young. LOL

And the post manwill find dead in a room ful of cats.


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## Entropy3000

Walt said:


> I don't foresee any begging for R. She knows I'm done. I think she's relieved it is over as well. The guilt was eating her alive.
> 
> I'm pushing forward - told her I want this D done quickly. She wants to drag it out "for the kids stability". Told her that she's wasted enough of my time already.
> 
> I'm making plans for the future. My friends have been great - several who live out of town have asked me to come visit. This is something I never did while married.
> 
> I pity her b/c the chickens have come home to roost. Her actions destroyed most of her important relationships - me, my family, her family. Yes, the marriage was on life support and needed lots of help. But, as we all know, infidelity isn't the way to go.


2012 will be a better year for you my friend. Good luck.


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## oldmittens

Still hanging in there Walt??


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## Walt

oldmittens said:


> Still hanging in there Walt??


Still around, just trying to avoid TAM for my sanity.:rofl:

We've both retained lawyers and are heading toward mediation. :smthumbup: We've settled custody issues ourselves, so the only issue(s) left are financial - child support, alimony, etc.

Unfortunately, we are living in the same house for now. She's continuing to be in contact with OM3 via text. I'm sure they're even Skyping sexing and talking via phone. She's planning a trip to go see him soon (using her own $). Even though I've detached, it still hurts.

The kids don't know yet, we plan on telling them in a few weeks when we have more concrete details (who is living where, custody schedules, etc.).

As I said before, she's in a world of hurt. For 20 years, I did everything. Now she's on her own. She's scared. Really scared.

Of course, I'm scared for different reasons - what is going to happen to my kids, my life, dating, loneliness, etc. I've got a great job, great family and friends who have been very supportive. I'll be OK. I just need to keep telling myself that.


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## oldmittens

Walt said:


> Still around, just trying to avoid TAM for my sanity.:rofl:
> 
> We've both retained lawyers and are heading toward mediation. :smthumbup: We've settled custody issues ourselves, so the only issue(s) left are financial - child support, alimony, etc.
> 
> Unfortunately, we are living in the same house for now. She's continuing to be in contact with OM3 via text. I'm sure they're even Skyping sexing and talking via phone. She's planning a trip to go see him soon (using her own $). Even though I've detached, it still hurts.
> 
> The kids don't know yet, we plan on telling them in a few weeks when we have more concrete details (who is living where, custody schedules, etc.).
> 
> As I said before, she's in a world of hurt. For 20 years, I did everything. Now she's on her own. She's scared. Really scared.
> 
> Of course, I'm scared for different reasons - what is going to happen to my kids, my life, dating, loneliness, etc. I've got a great job, great family and friends who have been very supportive. I'll be OK. I just need to keep telling myself that.


I know where you're coming from. My divorce will be final In two weeks and I still have some of the fears that I had when I first decided to separate. They never really go away until you actually start living life and realize you can actually make it. Keep focusing on yourself this nothing you can do for your wife anymore she's going to have to hit rock bottom on her own and when she does she's going to hit it hard. Focus on getting yourself healthy and happy (that goes for your kids as well) again and remember no one can do that but you. Best of luck though I doubt you'll need it you seem to have a great handle on things.


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## Kallan Pavithran

No updates?


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## Walt

Thanks for being interested Kallan:

We're still in the same house. I'm going to keep the house and unfortunately, she doesn't have the $ to move out yet.

We've completed our parenting plan - I've got basically a 50/50 split with the kids. I'm very pleased. She thinks I got the better end of the deal. She can't see that when she gets a job (after being a SAHM for years) that the 50/50 will actually benefit her.

As for the financial end, she's spinning like a top. Reality is setting in that her cushy life has come to an end. I'll be OK, she's going to struggle.

She's instructed her attorney to slow things down. Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do to speed it up - yet. Hopefully, I can get this wrapped up in the next 3-4 weeks. For my sanity, I need her to move out. Her anxiety is a negative force for me and the kids. 

As for me - I'm in the best shape I've been in since HS. People actually stop me and tell me how good I look. My STBXW has gone the other way, gaining a lot of weight.

There is no talk of R. Every time I do something she doesn't like, she'll rationalize it as "see, you never supported/appreciated/loved/etc. me, that's why I need a D." My answer - "yep, you're right.":rofl:


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## morituri

Walt said:


> Every time I do something she doesn't like, she'll rationalize it as "see, you never supported/appreciated/loved/etc. me, that's why I need a D." My answer - "yep, you're right.":rofl:


Ah don't you just love the lies they tell themselves and to others?

In any case, it looks like you're doing well for yourself and that your kids are being well taken care of. 

As for her, let her get all the support and appreciation from how many OM there are out there. She'll find out soon enough that it is solely dependent on how much sex she is willing to put out for them.


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## Beowulf

Walt said:


> Thanks for being interested Kallan:
> 
> We're still in the same house. I'm going to keep the house and unfortunately, she doesn't have the $ to move out yet.
> 
> We've completed our parenting plan - I've got basically a 50/50 split with the kids. I'm very pleased. She thinks I got the better end of the deal. She can't see that when she gets a job (after being a SAHM for years) that the 50/50 will actually benefit her.
> 
> As for the financial end, she's spinning like a top. Reality is setting in that her cushy life has come to an end. I'll be OK, she's going to struggle.
> 
> She's instructed her attorney to slow things down. Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do to speed it up - yet. Hopefully, I can get this wrapped up in the next 3-4 weeks. For my sanity, I need her to move out. Her anxiety is a negative force for me and the kids.
> 
> As for me - I'm in the best shape I've been in since HS. People actually stop me and tell me how good I look. My STBXW has gone the other way, gaining a lot of weight.
> 
> There is no talk of R. Every time I do something she doesn't like, she'll rationalize it as "see, you never supported/appreciated/loved/etc. me, that's why I need a D." My answer - "yep, you're right.":rofl:


Yeah, wait until she's out on her own and has to "gasp" actually have to work for a living and doesn't have you supporting her. She'll get her reality check in a big way. She'll start saying "why was it that I needed that divorce again?"


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## Walt

morituri said:


> Ah don't you just love the lies they tell themselves and to others?
> 
> In any case, it looks like you're doing well for yourself and that your kids are being well taken care of.


That's the rub, Morituri.

The kids are only being well taken care of because I'm picking up her (massive) slack. I'm spending my time working & taking care of them (not that I mind). She spends her time doing things for herself - volunteering, working out, etc. (OM3 is long distance).

She's been an absentee mom for the past 9-12 months. The kids have learned to survive w/o her, but it really is heartbreaking to me. That's not how it should be.

Frankly, one of my biggest concerns right now is how she will handle the kids when she's on her own and she has no one to help. That scares the sh*t out of me.


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## morituri

If after the divorce you find out that she continues to neglect the kids, gather evidence, and report her to child welfare services for them to investigate. If they proceed with an investigation, they will contact her to do an evaluation. I guarantee you that she will sh!t on her panties once she realizes that they can take the kids away from her. Hopefully she'll step up to the plate for if she doesn't then she won't have the kids for very long.


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## bandit.45

> As for me - I'm in the best shape I've been in since HS. People actually stop me and tell me how good I look. My STBXW has gone the other way, gaining a lot of weight.


So the silk purse becomes a sow's ear!

Ahh, the wages of sin....


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## Walt

morituri said:


> If after the divorce you find out that she continues to neglect the kids, gather evidence, and report her to child welfare services for them to investigate. If they proceed with an investigation, they will contact her to do an evaluation. I guarantee you that she will sh!t on her panties once she realizes that they can take the kids away from her. Hopefully she'll step up to the plate for if she doesn't then she won't have the kids for very long.


It won't be that bad. She won't physically neglect them. They'll be fed and have clean clothes. Just mental/emotional abandonment.

The irony is that she thinks she's a candidate for "mother of the year" because she drives them to their various activities...


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