# Confused about "duty sex"



## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

My wife and I have had sex only twice this year, I don't know how to link my other thread with more info. I haven't been initiating since some time in March or April because I just got fed up with the excuses, reasons etc. and her "going through the motions" attitude. 

She initiated yesterday, caught me off guard. I took her up on it and after entry, I noticed she was wincing. I immediately went soft, tried different positions that might not hurt, but all were the same with the pain and a weak erection. It apparently hurt more if I went deeper. I'm wondering if it is because it's been a while? 

Anyway, I don't know if she just offered it up because it has been several months, or if she actually wanted it herself. It makes a big difference to me, I don't care to have sex with someone who is not into it. Any ideas as to how I may figure out what which it is without asking? That will just end in an argument.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Has she ever had pain like this before?


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## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Has she ever had pain like this before?


I just read his other thread. He said she ramps up to an orgasm but then feels pain and doesn't orgasm.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

OK. So has she seen a doctor about this?


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## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> OK. So has she seen a doctor about this?


Maybe link his other post here. He said she is afraid of doctors and hearing anything bad.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

luxnoctis said:


> Maybe link his other post here. He said she is afraid of doctors and hearing anything bad.


I check his profile and he has many threads. I don't know which thread is the one where he discusses this. Since you seem to have found the thread, could you post the link here? All it takes it to copy it (ctrl+c) and then paste it in a post here (ctrl+v).


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## luxnoctis (Jun 29, 2017)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/366930-birth-control-pill-libido.html?highlight=


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

She's been off the pill for a while now, about 6 months. It's different than the other pain. I think it's from inactivity. She's mentioned something about going to the doctor for another issue, so I'll try to talk her into getting this sorted out as well. She's lost some weight recently and is feeling better about herself, so I'm hoping things will change because I had lost interest the last few months and basically riding things out until my father duties are finished in a few years. Then I was going to to make an important decision depending on if things were acceptable or not.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Inactivity does not usually cause pain. She needs to talk to a doctor about it.


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## mary35 (Jul 18, 2010)

Read your birth control thread. My answer to that thread is that sometimes birth control pills, especially taken for a long time - which your wife did - can mess up the hormones permanently - so it's possible that she may never return to the way she was. Plus over the 19 or so year period she was on them - aging has also affected her hormones. 

Now as to this thread - your wife is at the age of peri-menopause if she is still having periods, and menopause if she has stopped having periods. So that could also be affecting and throwing her hormones out of wack. During the peri-menopausal or menopausal phases, some women start having pain during intercourse - for various reasons - thinning vaginal tissue and lack of natural lubrication are common issues for many women. I had a friend who described intercourse feeling like she had thousands of paper cuts being rubbed during intercourse. Simply using lubrication helped immensely and allowed her to enjoy sex again. I also experienced dryness - but it wasn't all that painful - just hard to get it in - and uncomfortable for hubby too. It sounds like she has heavy periods - which can sometimes signify low progesterone levels. Some women also start having decreased clitoral sensitivity that affects their ability to reach orgasms. Some women develop increased sensitivity - so maybe that is what is happening to her and causing the pain before she orgasms. 

I am an strong advocate of women at this age, getting their hormone levels tested if she is experiencing any major issues. But it needs to be done by a doctor that will test her individual hormones and then will supplement them as needed and work with her to help her get a good balance between all of her hormones - if she needs hormonal therapy. Many women can greatly benefit from hormonal therapy. Some don't. But its something to look into and research and talk to doctors about. I personally chose to use bio-identical hormones. Getting my hormonal levels raised back to normal levels and getting them balanced gave me my sex life back! It's not for everyone - but something to look into. 

I also had to deal with conditioned sexual repression issues (before the menopause issues kicked in). It took a lot of work and a sex therapist to help with that. I still fight it sometimes as old habits die hard. But - I was the one that had to want to get help and then do the work. If your wife doesn't - don't expect any changes. It was almost 30 years before I dealt with it though - so my husband put up with it for most of our marriage. I was lucky he stuck around - and he was one of the rare lucky ones - whose wife did finally change. But from what I can see - this is not the norm. Most don't change! I'll be honest - if I had not overcome my sexual repression issues before menopause issues started - I would not have cared about fixing the menopause issues and would probably would have used those issues to just stop having sex completely and told my husband to deal with it. 

If your wife was here posting instead of you - I would say you have a better chance - but she is not - and from what you write - you may be fighting a losing battle. 

So bottom line - my advice - if you can, try to get her to do these things: 1. See a doctor about the pain. This is a must - because she should not be having pain during intercourse. There are a lot of treatable causes for this issue. Find a doctor that will investigate and not just blow it off. (Many do. I had to switch doctors for that reason) 2. go to a good sex therapist that has experience dealing with sexual repression. It wouldn't hurt the both of you to go - cause it sounds like you are dealing with your own built up resentment issues. (which is not surprising given that you are in an almost sexless marriage.) It sounds like you are considering leaving the marriage when your kids are raised. It wouldn't hurt for you to get some counseling first - so at least, if your wife refuses to change, you can be confident you did everything you could to try to fix this marital issue. 

Good Luck!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

mary35 said:


> Read your birth control thread. My answer to that thread is that sometimes birth control pills, especially taken for a long time - which your wife did - can mess up the hormones permanently - so it's possible that she may never return to the way she was. Plus over the 19 or so year period she was on them - aging has also affected her hormones.
> 
> Now as to this thread - your wife is at the age of peri-menopause if she is still having periods, and menopause if she has stopped having periods. So that could also be affecting and throwing her hormones out of wack. During the peri-menopausal or menopausal phases, some women start having pain during intercourse - for various reasons - thinning vaginal tissue and lack of natural lubrication are common issues for many women. I had a friend who described intercourse feeling like she had thousands of paper cuts being rubbed during intercourse. Simply using lubrication helped immensely and allowed her to enjoy sex again. I also experienced dryness - but it wasn't all that painful - just hard to get it in - and uncomfortable for hubby too. It sounds like she has heavy periods - which can sometimes signify low progesterone levels. Some women also start having decreased clitoral sensitivity that affects their ability to reach orgasms. Some women develop increased sensitivity - so maybe that is what is happening to her and causing the pain before she orgasms.
> 
> ...




Thank you for taking the time to post all that. It gives me some hope, and at the same time puts a knot in my stomach. I will try my best to fix this rather than the easy way of walking. Her periods were heavy, that's why she continued with the pill instead of other methods. It hasn't returned in the six months since she stopped. I guess she has to want to fix this otherwise there is no point.

Thank you again.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

If she is making an effort, you should be encouraged. Don't be so quick to label this "duty sex" and make that into a bad thing. Even if she is not enthusiastic about the actual act, once could presume that she initiated sex because she knows you want it and is trying to please you/fix the problem. 

Give her some time. It won't get better overnight. Encourage her. You might not get another chance.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think it can for some women. I know that during the times when my wife an I were sexually active, intercourse was comfortable for her. During the times when there was a long gap, it was very uncomfortable, now impossible. We've gone through more than one phase of this. 






EleGirl said:


> Inactivity does not usually cause pain. She needs to talk to a doctor about it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> Thank you for taking the time to post all that. It gives me some hope, and at the same time puts a knot in my stomach. I will try my best to fix this rather than the easy way of walking. Her periods were heavy, that's why she continued with the pill instead of other methods. It hasn't returned in the six months since she stopped. I guess she has to want to fix this otherwise there is no point.
> 
> Thank you again.


 Try using lubricant.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

uhtred said:


> I think it can for some women. I know that during the times when my wife an I were sexually active, intercourse was comfortable for her. During the times when there was a long gap, it was very uncomfortable, now impossible. We've gone through more than one phase of this.


What has your wife's doctor told her about why she experiences this pain?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think she has asked her doctor but maybe just read, but she believes it is due to post-menopause. Probably fixable with hormonal creams, but there are sided effects she is concerned about. Its exacerbated by her not being able to relax in anticipation of pain. 

By experiment, when we have frequent sex it isn't a problem and when sex is rare its is a problem. Based on timing I think I have the cause and effect in the right direction. 



EleGirl said:


> What has your wife's doctor told her about why she experiences this pain?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

How much foreplay was involved, and what kind? If she wasn't lubricated, it would hurt - there may not be a medical problem, if it's just not enough preparation.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> How much foreplay was involved, and what kind? If she wasn't lubricated, it would hurt - there may not be a medical problem, if it's just not enough preparation.


Not much foreplay, just almost a "get it over with" vibe I get. That is why I feel it is just IV drip sex, just enough to keep the marriage alive. Not interested in that. I will talk to her about getting it checked out, otherwise I will check out. I'm tired of being the only one trying, and the only one who cares. Her initiating was nothing more than "duty", I can't pretend it is anything else.

We pretty much always use lube.


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## Wife5362 (Oct 30, 2013)

Have you had a direct talk with your wife about the direction your marriage is headed (to its end) if things remain the same? 

If not, you really need to state to her outrightly that you won't stay in a sexless marriage (2 times in the first 6 months of 2017 is sexless). She needs to understand the consequences of her doing nothing to help solve her issues. And you need to stop being the nice guy that allows her to think you will remain married to her under the current conditions. You can sympathize with her pain, but not if she refuses to do anything about it.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

I initiated recently and things seemed a bit better. She was a little more into it, but asked if I needed to go so deep. I told her it does feel better when I do. I went slow and ramped it up slowly. She was wincing a bit and I would go slower. It was a big improvement from the previous session.

I guess I just can't leave it that long, and just initiate more often and not let rejection phase me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

manwithnoname said:


> I initiated recently and things seemed a bit better. She was a little more into it, but asked if I needed to go so deep. I told her it does feel better when I do. I went slow and ramped it up slowly. She was wincing a bit and I would go slower. It was a big improvement from the previous session.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I just can't leave it that long, and just initiate more often and not let rejection phase me.




Dude, she's wincing in pain and you keep going?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Dude, she's wincing in pain and you keep going?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just relax a bit. 

We agreed she would let me know if I needed to stop, and I was asking her every few seconds if it was still ok, and she was ok. She was ok with slight discomfort and would let me know if it got too much. 

There was constant communication, it's not like she was in a lot of pain and I kept pounding away...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

That still doesn't sound the least bit sexy or enjoyable for either one of you.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> That still doesn't sound the least bit sexy or enjoyable for either one of you.



Well if it is because of lack of frequency, then it will help to do it more often. Do you have a suggestion?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Did you 2 over establish whether her ultimate issue is vaginal dryness? If yes, try unrefined virgin coconut oil. It should be solid at room temp and have that coconut smell. It will melt quite easily as you use it on her. We buy this brand for our needs. My wife is 43 soon to be 44 and she tends to be dry more so than not when we have sex. KY jelly never worked well enough and even astro glide was not the best. Coconut oil is awesome. She loves it and I like the results.

The brand we use.


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## Happynmarried (Jul 22, 2017)

Women are wired differently then men we need intamacy and then we crave sex. Try just holding her running your fingers along her skin then gently massage her then back off. It'll drive her nuts do this until she initiates once she initiates dive between her legs and give her some good foreplay this will make her nether regions ready for actual penetration


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

manwithnoname said:


> Well if it is because of lack of frequency, then it will help to do it more often. Do you have a suggestion?


See a doctor...oh wait..


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Happynmarried said:


> Women are wired differently then men we need intamacy and then we crave sex. Try just holding her running your fingers along her skin then gently massage her then back off. It'll drive her nuts do this until she initiates once she initiates dive between her legs and give her some good foreplay this will make her nether regions ready for actual penetration


Or maybe she just isn't interested because you know..pain in the nether regions


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Being super turned on and relaxed could help with the pain issue. Going ahead without foreplay, without her being turned on with her wincing is just going to make the pain/sex association more for her and make her not want it even more (not to mention make her feel you just want to get off and don't care if it hurts her) 

IMO next time say no unless she's willing to let you try to fix things. 
If she is:
Spend a good amount of time on non genetal contact - that means no boobs too!- before moving to those areas gently. I swear so many men think just jamming their fingers in there is a good idea in foreplay. Rub gently, kiss softly, tease her, avoid putting too much attention right on the cl't area until you notice her squirming a bit to get you there. Then still soft and gentle. 

Get her completely relaxed and turned on before starting piv and see if that resolves the pain issue. We can clamp up when not turned on, our vaginas expand when turned on and natural wetness protects us as well. 

Oh and if she didnt have a O before or during, at least attempt after. She may not need or want one but like offering to pay the bill on a date, it's polite to try


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Did you 2 over establish whether her ultimate issue is vaginal dryness? If yes, try unrefined virgin coconut oil. It should be solid at room temp and have that coconut smell. It will melt quite easily as you use it on her. We buy this brand for our needs. My wife is 43 soon to be 44 and she tends to be dry more so than not when we have sex. KY jelly never worked well enough and even astro glide was not the best. Coconut oil is awesome. She loves it and I like the results.
> 
> The brand we use.


We've been using coconut oil. It seems to be better when liberal amounts are used. I'll have to experiment.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

manwithnoname said:


> I initiated recently and things seemed a bit better. She was a little more into it, but asked if I needed to go so deep. I told her it does feel better when I do. I went slow and ramped it up slowly. She was wincing a bit and I would go slower. It was a big improvement from the previous session.
> 
> I guess I just can't leave it that long, and just initiate more often and not let rejection phase me.


*If she's wincing, she needs to be in an OB/Gyns office for due examination! 

By any standard, that's just not natural!*


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

arbitrator said:


> *If she's wincing, she needs to be in an OB/Gyns office for due examination!
> 
> By any standard, that's just not natural!*



I've asked her several times to book an appointment, she keeps procrastinating. I need to be a lot more firm with her on this.

Thanks to all


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## HumbleHubby (Jul 12, 2017)

My wife was also experiencing pain/discomfort during sex which hampered her interest and killed our frequency. It mostly came down to vaginal atrophy after menopause. Her vaginal walls had thinned and her natural lubrication really dried up. Once we finally got the topic onto the table for discussion, we arrived at some solutions that were better than avoiding sex.

We now apply lube VERY liberally and reapply often. It gets a bit messy, and she is wired to hate messy, but it truly helps her avoid pain and increase pleasure. We found a water-based product that was also hypoallergenic which was nice because she's highly sensitive down there to many ingredients. We are both fond of the slippery feel it provides. 

The other thing she did to improve her general vaginal condition was to use a suppository product we found online. It is a very natural product containing only coconut oil and vitamin E. If she uses it every other night before bed for a while, she seems to almost have the wetness of her 20's. If she runs out or skips them for a while, she seems to have post sex pain more often. I wish she would take these suppositories daily, but I'm still promoting that habit just like she will someday get me to floss daily.

I think she would also benefit from vaginal estrogen (like Vagifem), but she already uses a bio-identical HRT (Estradiol/Biest Versa and Progesterone) applied as a cream to her skin on arms or thighs. She thinks that is enough estrogen, but my research shows that the vaginal form might help more with atrophy/dryness issues than the topical form.

Although she avoids frequent sex, she does enjoy it once we get into it and can have strong orgasms, sometimes multiple. But she is convinced that she can only have orgasmic sex once per week. If we've already done it earlier in the week and she had an orgasm, then she will start the next lovemaking session by reminding me that she probably won't have an orgasm because she already had one earlier in the week. Ugghh...that pessimistic attitude kills me. I wish she was more like the Little Engine Who Could ("I think I can, I know I can"). I believe her libido would benefit immensely if she added testosterone into her HRT program. I would love it if we could go from scheduled, duty style sex to "Honey, I want you so bad, I need you now" sex. Maybe someday...for now we continue to make small, but important steps in a positive direction.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> She initiated yesterday, caught me off guard. I took her up on it and after entry, I noticed she was wincing.


Did you use any lubricant? Maybe the reason she is not having sex with you is it always hurts because she is very dry. "Immediately" mounting her means there was no foreplay, so no natural lubricant was formed....

IF it is an ongoing problem, there is a hormonal cream to thicken the inside surface of the vagina. The skin thins out with age in many women, and starts to hurt during sex. Have her see her doctor


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> Did you use any lubricant? Maybe the reason she is not having sex with you is it always hurts because she is very dry. "Immediately" mounting her means there was no foreplay, so no natural lubricant was formed....
> 
> IF it is an ongoing problem, there is a hormonal cream to thicken the inside surface of the vagina. The skin thins out with age in many women, and starts to hurt during sex. Have her see her doctor


We use lubricant when she's dry. She bought two different types of lube several days ago, and then initiated late evening when we would normally just be trying to fall asleep. I didn't turn her down.

I purposely made it all about her (got mine as well) but spent a really long time on foreplay, used my tongue until it got sore, then used my hand until it cramped up. She seemed into it, which is the opposite of the last couple of years. I think it has a lot to do with weight loss. She's feeling better about herself, and it has carried over into the bedroom. 

Still lots of room for improvement, but heading in the right direction! :smthumbup:


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> I purposely made it all about her (got mine as well) but spent a really long time on foreplay, used my tongue until it got sore, then used my hand until it cramped up. She seemed into it, which is the opposite of the last couple of years. I think it has a lot to do with weight loss. She's feeling better about herself, and it has carried over into the bedroom.


Perhaps you might consider changing your techniques. Bringing a woman to orgasm really doesn't require a very long time, a sore tongue or hand cramps.



manwithnoname said:


> Still lots of room for improvement, but heading in the right direction! :smthumbup:


I hope things keep getting better for both of you.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Personal said:


> *Perhaps you might consider changing your techniques. Bringing a woman to orgasm really doesn't require a very long time, a sore tongue or hand cramps.
> 
> *
> 
> She had one almost immediately, then we were going for a second one. The technique was being changed constantly, and with her direction. It was just too late and we were too tired.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

manwithnoname said:


> I purposely made it all about her (got mine as well) but spent a really long time on foreplay, used my tongue until it got sore, then used my hand until it cramped up.


No bigger turn off than a whiner.

There are men who truly can't get enough of a woman and you literally have to make them stop and pull them away. And then, there are the selfish whiners who complain about everything because they actually had to 'work' - for a big change - in order to 'get theirs.'

Golly, I just can't _understand_ why your wife isn't jumping all OVER that every single night of the week.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> No bigger turn off than a whiner.
> 
> There are men who truly can't get enough of a woman and you literally have to make them stop and pull them away. And then, there are the selfish whiners who complain about everything because they actually had to 'work' - for a big change - in order to 'get theirs.'
> 
> Golly, I just can't _understand_ why your wife isn't jumping all OVER that every single night of the week.


You're calling me a selfish whiner, when I am neither. I explained that I spent a lot more time on her pleasure than she expected, asked for, or even dreamed of. My mentioning of my tongue and wrist getting sore was to illustrate the amount of effort I put into it. I did not complain or "whine" to her. I mentioned it here. You must be pissed at all the posters on this site "whining" about their spouse cheating on them! 

Oh, and thank you for the productive post.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> Not much foreplay, just almost a "get it over with" vibe I get. That is why I feel it is just IV drip sex, just enough to keep the marriage alive. Not interested in that. I will talk to her about getting it checked out, otherwise I will check out. I'm tired of being the only one trying, and the only one who cares. Her initiating was nothing more than "duty", I can't pretend it is anything else.
> 
> We pretty much always use lube.


I agree, if she doesn't want to why do it at all? You can only use pain as an excuse so many times. After you run out of excuses you can't simple dodge the issue anymore. If it's a medical issue have her go to the doctor. If only one of you wants to fix it, you don't have a marriage anymore.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Too much direct stimulation is counter productive. It can become sore, numb, or just plain annoying. If your hand hurts it was probably way too hard, it's a very sensitive area. I've found men tend to be too rough and need to be dialed back, they don't understand that it's not like a penis you can just beat on for 20 minutes. 

Try spending time on everything other than the vagina area for a while until she is already very close before light, direct stimulation. 
If you're wanting to go for round 2, I'd try going back to foreplay a while again before more direct stimulation. 

There are sooooo many parts on us that are erotic and help towards orgasm, there is no need to spend all your time on one.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> I've asked her several times to book an appointment, she keeps procrastinating. I need to be a lot more firm with her on this.
> 
> Thanks to all


I would be worried that she's not only as concerned as she should be about this being a health concern, but about the damage it's doing to your marriage. It sounds to me like she's trying to use this as an excuse for not having sex.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Too much direct stimulation is counter productive. It can become sore, numb, or just plain annoying. If your hand hurts it was probably way too hard, it's a very sensitive area. I've found men tend to be too rough and need to be dialed back, they don't understand that it's not like a penis you can just beat on for 20 minutes.
> 
> Try spending time on everything other than the vagina area for a while until she is already very close before light, direct stimulation.
> If you're wanting to go for round 2, I'd try going back to foreplay a while again before more direct stimulation.
> ...


Regarding the hand getting sore, I was following her direction "keep doing that" for whatever it was at the time. So I kept doing it. I figured she knew what she wants when it happens, so I just varied things until she liked it, then told to move on to something else after a bit.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

jb02157 said:


> I agree, if she doesn't want to why do it at all? You can only use pain as an excuse so many times. After you run out of excuses you can't simple dodge the issue anymore. If it's a medical issue have her go to the doctor. *If only one of you wants to fix it, you don't have a marriage anymore*.


Too much doom and gloom on this site.

Our marriage is nowhere near this state.

She's much more receptive to intimacy recently.

No, she's not cheating now, nor in the past.

I am not cheating.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Too much direct stimulation is counter productive. It can become sore, numb, or just plain annoying. If your hand hurts it was probably way too hard, it's a very sensitive area. I've found men tend to be too rough and need to be dialed back, they don't understand that it's not like a penis you can just beat on for 20 minutes.
> 
> *Try spending time on everything other than the vagina area* for a while until she is already very close before light, direct stimulation.
> If you're wanting to go for round 2, I'd try going back to foreplay a while again before more direct stimulation.
> ...


Can you please be more specific?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

manwithnoname said:


> Can you please be more specific?


I think each woman is different but 
Neck, tummy, inner thighs, behind the ears, the part right under your bum where it meets your legs, crease of the inner thigh between the legs and vagina, breasts are obvious but avoid the squeeze and nipple twisting unless she likes that sort of thing. 

Light touches, tips of your fingers lightly drawing lines down her body getting super close to the vagina and then back up again. 

I really can't recommend teasing enough. If you can tease with no direct vagina contact until she is dying for you to touch it, you've won. At very least vagina should be wet and turned on before touching. Then start soft. Always. Direct clit stimulation can be uncomfortable for many, running the sides and top and bottom are usually better for the gradual build up you're going for. Slowly one finger for a while, then another. Watch cues, pulling away usually means too hard. The harder you go, the longer it can take to O. A hand with gentle pressure on the pubic area + fingers + oral on clit for your end game after teasing the other parts of her body for a while = heaven. Get a tarp 😉

After being single I dated .. a bit... and found that the majority of men were too rough with their touches and went to the vagina too soon. Kiss, boobs, vagina. 
Ya I can get off that way but it doesn't mean it was good and I didn't go back for more. It's like they are racing, trying to do it quick.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think each woman is different but
> Neck, tummy, inner thighs, behind the ears, the part right under your bum where it meets your legs, crease of the inner thigh between the legs and vagina, breasts are obvious but avoid the squeeze and nipple twisting unless she likes that sort of thing.
> 
> Light touches, tips of your fingers lightly drawing lines down her body getting super close to the vagina and then back up again.
> ...



Now that's the kind of post that is helpful! Looking forward to trying this all out. I used to go slow and after a while it became more of a rush it in because of kids, then it got to get it over with. Now it seems to be back to I can take my time again and hopefully have success with this. 

Thank you!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Well she finally went to the doctor for having pain in the lower abdomen area. Was sent to a gyn and for further tests, everything checked out ok. Gyn gave some cream for over sensitive nerves in that area. She took several weeks to apply it, and apparently it takes several applications before it is effective.

We have not tried it.

We've been in a drought since July when we had sex a handful of times. I don't initiate any more. The smallest act of affection is not returned (especially in bed) so I'm not setting myself up for disappointment. 

I'd like to know if there is a way without asking, if she's got no sex drive at all, or if she does but not with me. If she has no sex drive at all I will tell her to go get hormones checked or whatever can be done. If she's just not into me, then I don't know what else to do.

This sucks as every other aspect of our marriage is great except for the lack of sex and affection. Now that I read what I typed, it doesn't look so good, because she knows this is something I don't like.

I don't know how to word an ultimatum, or whether that would just be a waste of time. 

Maybe we both just need to move on...


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Have you tryed toys?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Have you tryed toys?


No. Years ago she brought it up. At the time I wasn't crazy about the idea. Then when opportunity to go into one of those shops came up, she didn't want to go.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Well she may be too embarrassed to go. You and or her can shop online. She may need a little help getting in the mood and this could be a big help.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Inloveforeverwithhubby said:


> Well she may be too embarrassed to go. You and or her can shop online. She may need a little help getting in the mood and this could be a big help.


My concern is if she has no attraction to me specifically or if she just has no sex drive whatsoever. If she has no urge at all she won't care about toys.

She may view this as a trick to get what I want.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

manwithnoname said:


> My concern is if she has no attraction to me specifically or if she just has no sex drive whatsoever. If she has no urge at all she won't care about toys.
> 
> She may view this as a trick to get what I want.


Well, if you haven't initiated in a long time, that won't help her mentally or emotionally.

Regardless of how low drive she may actually be, simply having you express interest is still important. It's validation, even if she rejects most of the time.

I chimed in on another thread recently about a similar subject. How my LD/ND wife won't show much interest (sexually), but if I go too long without expressing MY interest, she'll take notice.

It's likely your wife has noticed your lack of interest in her, and how this isn't the first time you've just... stopped. And because it's not a major issue for her in the first place, it's easy to just put it out of her mind entirely.

In my other post, I said how it's a real catch-22 at times. I initiate, or express interest, and sex is "all I want". I don't express interest for a period of time, and it's "what's wrong?".

To be fair, my wife does not have any physical limitations that prevent her from enjoying sex, as yours does. My wife doesn't "need" sex - until it's unavailable. She thoroughly enjoys the physical AND emotional aspects of sex. For her, it's entirely mental, IMO. Being wanted sexually is part-and-parcel of being a single woman (or man). It means little or nothing, in other words. You expect to be ogled, hit on, etc. You know their interest is purely physical - and it's okay, because it's clearly spelled out.

Suddenly, marriage to a person who is supposed to love and respect you, and being wanted sexually, physically, by them is... different. Now it "means" something it didn't before. So seeing the same desire from your spouse that the casual guy/girl gave you is off-putting, almost insulting. I'm supposed to be "different" than all those other people, who only viewed her as one thing or the other.

In any case, start showing your interest in her again. Not sex - her.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not trying to belittle her medical issues, if they are legitimate, but a drought since July is dire.

I loathe to offer this, but I think you should seriously just make up your mind that she's not attracted to you, full stop. It's better operating on a known or assumption than an unknown and remaining in limbo.

So maybe start living and making decisions as though she has zero attraction to you. Expect the worst and then it won't come as such a shock if it turns out to be the actual truth.

JMO.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

The only thing an ultimatum will do is shred your credibility when you fail to enforce it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

I never initiated sex out of a series of rejections and part of me (maybe my porn history) always wanted her to initiate and jump my bones. I read a few books and i think it was; Hold on to your NUTS (i think) that changed the perspective for me.

During the day I lead a very critical piece of my company with millions of dollars flowing through it... i manage that like a BOSS... yet at home, with my sex/romance department.. i let it stagnate to the point of cobwebs developing everywhere. I had to RUN the sex/romance department in my relationship with the same energy I do at work. For my wife, that just meant setting up dates and planning activities... something so simple yet i ignored it for years.

The book has alot of other aspects to it as well that i think are very beneficial and may help you... like things to do for yourself that actually build attraction for your wife. You wont be running a successful sex department if you are undesirable to your wife... 

The mindset (after you have re-built the attraction) is to initiate sex.. and if you get rejected, thats OK.. ill try again tomorrow or later. In the end she knows you desire her and will keep persisting.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

manwithnoname said:


> My wife and I have had sex only twice this year, I don't know how to link my other thread with more info. I haven't been initiating since some time in March or April because I just got fed up with the excuses, reasons etc. and her "going through the motions" attitude.
> 
> She initiated yesterday, caught me off guard. I took her up on it and after entry, *I noticed she was wincing. I immediately went soft, tried different positions that might not hurt, but all were the same with the pain and a weak erection. It apparently hurt more if I went deeper. I'm wondering if it is because it's been a while?*
> 
> Anyway, I don't know if she just offered it up because it has been several months, or if she actually wanted it herself. It makes a big difference to me, I don't care to have sex with someone who is not into it. Any ideas as to how I may figure out what which it is without asking? That will just end in an argument.


First you are in a Sex Starved Marriage. My suggestion is to start by reading MW Davis book, the Sex Starved Marriage. Next, I would suggest you figure out what you want and start implementing what you want and need, I was in a Sex Starved Marriage and after a lot of hard work by me initially, later with my wife, and a great sex therapist we saved our marriage.

There can be lots off reasons for the pain. One of the concerns of our sex therapist was that my wife had not masturbated with any kind of insertable toy during her celibacy. There are medically prescribed dilators designed to gradually stretch the vagina so that it can accommodate intercourse. Of course that is only one of many possible reasons that could be making intercourse painful for your wife. Seeing a medical specialist will be important for your wife and marriage. 

Good luck.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The only thing an ultimatum will do is shred your credibility when you fail to enforce it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's why I'm holding off on an ultimatum. If I go that route, I will follow through.

I'd rather fix things.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I don't get why she's not reciprocating basic affection. That's really problematic. Maybe she's worried it will lead to painful sex? Or does she have some deep-seated resentment? It's time for her to be honest, rather than just avoid the subject. Certainly she must realize she's hurting you (although my own wife never seemed to grasp this).


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Tatsuhiko said:


> I don't get why she's not reciprocating basic affection. That's really problematic. Maybe she's worried it will lead to painful sex? Or does she have some deep-seated resentment? It's time for her to be honest, rather than just avoid the subject. Certainly she must realize she's hurting you (although my own wife never seemed to grasp this).


I don't get it either. If we're in bed she doesn't move at all if I reach out and touch her. Just lies still and doesn't acknowledge it. If she's worried about the pain, we haven't tried to see if the medication will work or not. 

Not sure about any resentment, wouldn't that affect other aspects of our life/interactions? She acts normal otherwise. 

It's like we're friends, roommates, and she's ok with it, but I'm not. 

She must realize she's hurting me. I've addressed it a few times over the years. She probably doesn't realize she's hurting our marriage. I'm not sure if this is time for a 180. She seams to act like everything is good. Probably because everything is good for her, doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to do.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

manwithnoname said:


> Tatsuhiko said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get why she's not reciprocating basic affection. That's really problematic. Maybe she's worried it will lead to painful sex? Or does she have some deep-seated resentment? It's time for her to be honest, rather than just avoid the subject. Certainly she must realize she's hurting you (although my own wife never seemed to grasp this).
> ...


Of course only you know yourself, your wife, your marriage. However, as a female who has read your thread and many others like it, it seems like a logical conclusion that since everything you provide as a husband continues to be extremely good for her, she doesn't do anything she doesn't want to. She has no reason currently to behave any differently.

Many many men post about similar situations. When I read about them, I can't help but think to myself, if all of these men in these marriages with very sub par sexual/affectionate connections from their wife stopped providing a high quality dynamic to their spouses (wife acts like a roommate to her husband yet is receiving care and energy from him as a caring and doting *husband*) that things would change.

And you can bet the farm on the idea that if these women were suddenly single and wanted a man in their life, they'd not be able to build a relationship with a new man treating the new man as they do their current husband!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> And you can bet the farm on the idea that if these women were suddenly single and wanted a man in their life, they'd not be able to build a relationship with a new man treating the new man as they do their current husband!


This is absolutely, 100%, completely and utterly true. 

Back when my wife and I were in counseling, I said this exact thing - almost verbatim. 

I said the way I treated her and our home and family, that there would be a million single (and probably even unhappily married) and lonely women that would step into her shoes in a heartbeat. 

Where as virtually no man would opt to step into my place knowing that she would treat him the way she was treating me at that time. 

The beauty of that moment is after I said that, the counselor simply sat looking at her waiting for her response. His silence was deafening and his waiting for her response spoke untold volumes as to the validity of that statement. 

My wife is a beautiful woman and she was very sexy and an amazing lover back in her prime. (I am no longer in my prime either so I am not judging) She could have any man she wants, but in order to get any man at all, she would have to sexually responsive and have an active sex life with him. 

No real man that has anything going for him at all is going to knowingly go into relationship with a sexually uninterested and nonresponsive woman. 

Women that do not already have some poor sap tied down that are truly asexual and uninterested in sex either live with a bunch of cats that they pamper and overfeed into feline obesity, or they crochet and go to cooking and painting classes with other round, butch-haired, asexual women. 

(I am not knocking cats or cooking or painting classes with the girls if that is their thang. I am just saying that no man will knowingly enter into a relationship where sex is off the table)


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> This is absolutely, 100%, completely and utterly true.
> 
> Back when my wife and I were in counseling, I said this exact thing - almost verbatim.
> 
> ...



I agree and understand all of this. It wasn't always the way it is now.

This poor sap is nearing the breaking point.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

manwithnoname said:


> I agree and understand all of this. It wasn't always the way it is now.
> 
> This poor sap is nearing the breaking point.


If when you were dating she told you or you somehow new that this is how it would be, you would have never married her, correct?

If she had treated you this way on the first few dates, would you have continued even dating her?


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> If when you were dating she told you or you somehow new that this is how it would be, you would have never married her, correct?
> 
> If she had treated you this way on the first few dates, would you have continued even dating her?


Answer to first question, probably not. 

Second question is more difficult to answer. She was brought up a certain way, and wanted to abstain until marriage. While engaged, there was a lot of fooling around, everything but PIV. She even asked me if I wanted her to do something for me, I wasn't sure what that meant. Turns out it was a BJ. I could tell it was her first one as well.

Problem was we had kids fairly quickly, and then it was sneaking in sex when kids were sleeping etc. and eventually became more of a chore. 

I went through a phase where I would just initiate whenever I felt like sex, with the attitude that it didn't really matter to me if I got turned down. Frequency was up, she seemed to enjoy it when it happened. Then one day during this phase she was silent, didn't want to talk about what was bothering her. Finally she just came out and said she didn't care about sex and didn't really want to do it anymore and that it hurt etc. That's when I started this thread and one other.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, you kind of have your answer. She came out and told you she didn't care about sex. I guess you need to figure out if you can live the rest of your life like this, in this kind of relationship, and if not, what you are going to do.

I've been in your position. The details are very different, but same position. Long term marriage, two children. On top of that, I had been a SAHM mom for over a decade. I decided I could not live the rest of my life in that relationship and I divorced.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Many many men post about similar situations. When I read about them, I can't help but think to myself, if all of these men in these marriages with very sub par sexual/affectionate connections from their wife stopped providing a high quality dynamic to their spouses (wife acts like a roommate to her husband yet is receiving care and energy from him as a caring and doting *husband*) that things would change.


It’d be nice. But, in my case, I’ve not seen it happen for any length of time. Usually, quite the opposite.

IT can happen that a perceived drop in quality supplied to the withholding/non-responsive/non-participating partner eventually is used as further justification for restricting their partner to only crumbs. It can be disorienting, depressing, and paralyzing to be told “How could I desire you when you don’t do X for me?” — even though one has done X and Y and Z for years, one still only received crumbs.

It’s understanding this dynamic that compels me to leave. “Lord, give me the strength to burn off this ring.”


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