# Beating your kids



## RandomDude

Another thread actually inspired this, as I remembered when I walked in on my parents my mother after getting dressed and I was in my room pretending it didn't happen she starting beating the crap outta me. But that wasn't really the only occasion, in fact it became accepted by both my parents, my father being the more merciful one.

When I was a child I was smacked for all sorts of reasons, even not being to figure out 6x3 when I was in primary school. Assorted punishment tools ranged from cains to metal poles to sometimes random objects. I was evicted and forced to live with mum after I fought back at the age of what was it... 9? 10? Can't remember now. Anyways the beatings proceeded until 12 when I began living independently.

Still, if I was to say, am I mentally damaged because of it? I'm not so sure... Also I found this article:
Ten Reasons Not to Hit Your Kids - The Natural Child Project

*1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. *
Well, I was actually quite passive in my youth, either than throwing a kid down a flight of stairs lol - semi-accident - which got me expelled/more beatings, or biting a female on my first year of school (  ). It wasn't until 12 when I became more physically aggressive but I never related it to my childhood beatings.

*2. In many cases of so-called "bad behavior", the child is simply responding in the only way he can, given his age and experience, to neglect of basic needs.*

This I can agree with

*3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way.*

Well, I don't know about that, because I learnt how to resolve conflicts without violence on my own - eventually though, since from 12 to 18 my lifestyle didn't leave me much room for being "humane" - but my parents werent around at that time.

*4. The phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not from the Bible but from Samuel Butler's "Hudibras" *

*shrug*

*5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us.*

I don't know, I was quite close to my mum even though she was the most violent of either of my parents.

*6. Many parents never learned in their own childhood that there are positive ways of relating to children.*

*shrug*

*7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. *

Well when I was left on the streets, I wasn't p-ssed at the beatings, I was p-ssed at being abandoned!

*8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. *

Is this true? Lol

*9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right"*

Hmmm, this goes on and says: "that it is permissible to hurt someone else, provided they are smaller and less powerful than you are. The child then concludes that it is permissible to mistreat younger or smaller children. When he becomes an adult, he can feel little compassion for those less fortunate than he is, and fears those who are more powerful. This will hinder the establishment of meaningful relationships so essential to an emotionally fulfilling life."

Well, I've never really been a bully, I also don't mistreat kids even if they annoy the sh-t out of me sometimes. And when I became an adult I haven't lost compassion for those less fortunate, nor fear those who are more powerful. Whether it is hindered me though, not so sure...

*10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems.*

Well, I mostly learnt from the street but *shrug*

Anyways for the record I'm quite unsure about all of this.
I've never once laid a hand on my child, not to mention I am very protective of my daughter though sometimes I wonder how I would have been like as a parent if I had a son (maybe it's luck?), and a firm voice seems to be have been enough to keep my daughter in line, and when she was a babe we always had music so she hardly ever cried, and I also bought my Maxima as it was the only car she didn't waaah waaah in.

What are your thoughts? Also, I'm encouraging varying opinions in this thread, but I acknowledge the potential for it becoming rather flammable. I ask that opinions be challenged but not posters of such opinions, I personally want to get to the bottom of this through discussion myself.

On a funny note:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn5jlrxcpkI
LOL


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## RandomDude

97 views and no replies? Wah? There are so many parents here!
Not even a comment on the hilarious Russell Peters video? 

Bah! Somebody's gonna get a hurt real bad!!!


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## mablenc

Awesome post! Thank you. Same type if childhood here, but when i bring it up my parents dont remember and say I am lying. i cant even see violence on TV. I vowed never to hit my kid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Sorry, I was too busy beating my kid.. (bad joke I know. He's 6'4". I'm 5'3". Not gonna happen.)

I do believe that there is a huge difference between spanking a kid and beating them.

I was spanked as a kid. Don't think that hurt me.. not even physcially. I do think I learned to not do somethings because of it. I was a very naughty child. I have 7 siblings. When we got in trouble I was always the ring leader 

It would drive my dad nuts, 'cause he'd spank me and I'd just look at him and smile as big as I could. Then he's spank by brother who is 16 months younger than me and my brother would cry his eyes out.

Beating a child is just wrong. There is no excuse for it. Some kids who are abused do grow up to be abusers themselves. I have read that it's about 30% of them who do. So no, most kids who were beaten/abused do not grow up to act that way.


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## missmim

Ok I'll bite:

1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves:

I was "spanked" all the time by my mom. Got chased around with whatever weapon was handy, fly swatted, wooden spoon, hair brush...... to this day i have never been in a fight (outside protecting myself from siblings). I have two kids and the spankings As a kids reinforced the fact I would NEVER spank my kids.

2. In many cases of so-called "bad behavior", the child is simply responding in the only way he can, given his age and experience, to neglect of basic needs.

Agreed

3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way.

I think this is true, but my mom wasn't my only role model, and she did teach me what not to do.


4. The phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not from the Bible but from Samuel Butler's "Hudibras" 

same.....shrug

5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us.

The violence didn't help, but it was the selfishness and meanness that broke the bond. More emotional then phisical.

6. Many parents never learned in their own childhood that there are positive ways of relating to children.

Again, you may not be taught a correct way, but you can learn what not to do.

7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. 

I was pissed at the emotional abuse and non existence protection from it, it effected me MUCH more than the phisical abuse.

8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. 

Not sure about this one.

9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right"

I dont think this is limited to people who were spanked or beaten.

10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems.

Nope, not for me.

I'll say that the mental torched I felt subjected to by those who were suppose to support and protect me created a tough skin. It has changed my thoughts and behavior forever. The phisical abuse doesn't get much thought, but I can still dwell on the emotional abuse from time to time.

And somewhat to the point, we talk about bullies all the time lately. I always thought that of a bully as the guy/gal who would kick your azz for lunch money. The "bullying" we see today is more emotional torture than fear of a phisical assault. It is soooooo much worse than the old school "bully" I picture in my head. I wish there was a seperate term for it. Many people who hear about bullying may not realize that most of the kids who have committed suicide were not scared of a phisical assault, but had been emotionally and psychologically tortured.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wiltshireman

EleGirl said:


> I do believe that there is a huge difference between spanking a kid and beating them.


:iagree:


I have in the past and no doubt will in the future have occasion to "spank / slap" my children. 

I only ever give a single two fingered strike and make sure I count to ten under my breath before delivering it (to ensure I can control the level of force).

A slapped wrist for trying to climb the book case.
A slapped leg for running across the road without looking.
A slapped hand for biting mummy.

IMO this only works if the "crime" is followed swiftly by the "punishment" and it must not be done in anger.


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## RandomDude

Interesting responses, thank you!

@Mablenc

They can't remember? 
It's like something that either was part of raising their children or it wasnt :scratchhead:

My parents aren't allowed to discipline my child personally, and neither are her grandparents from my STBX's side of the family, still, sometimes my STBX did slap our daughter's hand but that was quite rare - our daughter is mostly very good.

@Elegirl

Hmmm what would you consider acceptable forms of spanking/physical discipline? My STBX did mention that she does most of the disciplining thats why she doesn't give daddy any headaches but I don't know - if so, should I slap my daughter's hand if she ever acts up? She has never done anything in front of me so far that my voice couldn't straighten her up with though.

Also, I wonder how I would have been like as a dad if I had a son =O

@Missmim

Just curious, if I may ask, how did it feel like emotional abuse during those times? Was it the fear? Feeling of being unloved? What was it? =/

@Coffee4me

Hmmm, I guess "beating" can truly be different to "spanking" in that case. I don't know though, like it was quite normal in my parents generation to discipline children using cains and such. Metal poles left bruises but some cains inflicted more pain - lingering I guess.

But if beaten you mean literally, punched/kicked/brutalised... =/

@Wiltshireman



> IMO this only works if the "crime" is followed swiftly by the "punishment" and it must not be done in anger.


Interesting rule, I think this how my parents may have overdone it abit in the past, like when I walked in on them =O for example, mum just grabbed the pole and kept hitting me until dad stopped her heh. Funny looking back.

I wonder what it was really, maybe she was sex starved yet I ruined it for her by embarrassing the hell outta my parents haha xD


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## RandomDude

BTW guys watch the video, it's funny trust me 

Lol


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## Bellavista

With 5 children, 3 of them boys, I had occasion to smack them when they were little. They laugh now and tell stories about the broken and hidden wooden spoons. 

I found that once they were past the age of about 6 or 7 there was little need for corporal punishment any longer. By then, they were aware that there were consequences for their actions and I could usually bring them under control by holding up 1 finger at a time, I rarely had to get to 3 before they were behaving again.

What has happened is that discipline has been confused with abuse. Abuse or excessive punishments are bad, make no mistake, they should be jumped all over.

However, training your child that certain behaviours are not acceptable is not abuse. If that training includes a smack administered in an appropriate way, it is not abuse. In this instance I think that some of the statements copied in your original post are not correct for children who are disciplined rather than abused.

I also think that feeding parents information like the list above has led to a generation with numerous members who are shocked when they find out the world does not revolve around them and that there are consequences for their actions.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

My mother had anger issues. She beat the sh!t out of me. Threw me down a flight of wooden stairs once ... just opened the door to the basement and pushed as hard as she could. Kicked me in the groin several times. Even her threats were violent ... "say that one more time and you will be picking your teeth up off the floor" She threw a fresh pot of coffee at my brother. Really out of control. All I learned is how to be scared of her. 

It stopped one day when I was 14 or 15 ... she swung a toilet plunger directly at my head ... I grabbed her wrist and took it out of her hand ... and ran for my life. My dad forced me to apologize to her "if you want to sleep in the house tonight."

I do not, will not punish my children by hitting them in any way. My children respect us but are not afraid. My children are extremely well behaved and very sweet. I frequently get strangers coming up telling me how good my girls are. My wife once had an older woman, complete stranger, approach at a restaurant, complimented them and bought my wife and my girls dessert. Huh? You mean I don't have to beat the sh!t out of them to get them to behave and have good manners? How 'bout that!!


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## Bellavista

Once again, people are confusing discipline and abuse. Justsomeguy, great work with your well behaved kids, but what you have described from your parents was abuse, not well administered discipline.


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## RandomDude

I both feared and loved my mum until I turned 12 I guess, she never kicked me in the groin or threw me down stairs though, most of the time just going berserk with the cain or pole or whatever.

My daughter does act up with her mum sometimes, but those two are very close and all my STBX ever does when she really acts up was slap her hand. It seems having either mum or dad unhappy with her was punishment enough because my daughter rarely needed discipline, she's really sweet most of the time.

Though she did do some strange things, like kissing boys at school. I was wondering whether my wife and I should stop being so intimate around her at that time because it was obvious where she got it from. Not from my side of the family though 

@Bellavista

I guess the real disciplining comes at teens then eh?


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Bellavista said:


> Once again, people are confusing discipline and abuse. Justsomeguy, great work with your well behaved kids, but what you have described from your parents was abuse, not well administered discipline.


lol ... yes, of course I know that. There is no confusion here on that point. In this day and age, my mother would be arrested for what she did and we would be wards of the state.

Instead of it making me more likely to "hit" my children, it motivated me to go in the complete opposite direction ... not even normal corporal punishment. 

What my mother did was turn me into Mr. Nice Guy. Someone desperately concerned about other people's opinions and hiding my flaws. I was well versed in hiding my flaws ... because otherwise I would get the crap beaten out of me. My children so far are the complete opposite. They are very honest and straightforward about their mistakes. We talk to them honestly, making the point that making mistakes is normal and if you make a mistake then learn from it. Making a mistake does not make you a bad person. 

They are not afraid to talk to us. I was afraid to talk to my mother. I do not have a close relationship with her. I had a childhood without affection, keeping all my mistakes hidden and unable to talk to my parents about my problems. I didn't have anybody to talk to about my problems ... not even my closest friends who I was too worried about proving to them how wonderful I was to let them know I had any problems. My girls childhood will not be perfect. They are far from perfect but I don't expect them to be (do not confuse that with setting low expectations). They will not grow up though with the problems I've had to overcome. So far, I am very proud of both of them.

My oldest daughter has made straight A honor roll for the first 3 quarters this year and she tested out to be placed in advanced class next year. She came home a couple of weeks ago with less than stellar grades on some recent tests. I think the look on my face when I saw those papers said it all. She was crushed. The tears started falling before I said a word. I didn't have to yell or scream or hit ... didn't even have to raise my voice. We talked. She has it straightened out and this week she came home with her normal high marks. 

btw, they are afraid of my mother. She has never disciplined them but they sense it. They do adore my dad. Aside from being a doormat, he is a great guy.

It is interesting that my parents do not fit the stereotype. Liberals, christian, upper middle class. Mother is an Ivy League grad with a long, distinguished career working at Duke University with some of the most respected people in the medical profession. Go figure.


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## richie33

My mother was the abuser also. Her favorite saying was " I brought you into this world and I can take you out also".
She remembers none of this of course. But me and my brothers do. I tell her about throwing dishes at me, hot coffee at me....she says that she doesn't remember. For me the verbal attacks were much worse. She was and is still to this day the master of the silent treatment.
She is shocked as to why half her children don't want nothing to do with her.
I try not to even lose my cool with my two boys. But if they are doing something that may hurt themselves I will slap their hand and firmly tell them no. Most of the time they get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pb76no

I think if hitting is your first choice for punishment, that's a huge problem. 2nd, 3rd choice too. And if you hit to hurt, that is also a problem. I got "the belt" a handful of times in my childhood, and spanked a handful of other times. These were rare occurrences. Occurrences with my children are even rarer. But I don't subscribe to the notion that a whack on the rear ever long once in a while is a crime or abuse or "teaches" my children to be hitters or violent.


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## Soifon

My father was regularly and severely beaten as a child and he never hit any of us including my brothers. My SO was also regularly beaten as a child. As in a grown man full force punching a young child repeatedly type of beaten, not spanked. We have three boys and he has never laid a finger on them in any way. He has two brothers though that were beaten just like he was as a kid and they do beat their children. It is really disturbing and I see no excuse for it whatsoever. I fail to grasp how my dad and my SO were able to see the wrong in it and break the cycle buy my SO's brothers act just as their dad did. It's very sad.


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## althea0212

I would to respond to the following sayings:

*1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. *
If the hitting was done in anger, then the parents aren't showing them the proper behavior. This may make them hit someone when they are angry.

*2. In many cases of so-called "bad behavior", the child is simply responding in the only way he can, given his age and experience, to neglect of basic needs.*
If the child could not express his emotions then he/she may manifest what he/she feels through aggressive behavior.

*3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way.*
It may be confusing for a child if no explanation is given by the parents on why s/he needs to be punished. The child may just think that if s/he displeases the parents, this would lead to punishment.

*4. The phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not from the Bible but from Samuel Butler's "Hudibras" *
I have encountered this passage in the old Testament of the Bible if my memory serves me right.

*5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us.*
I agree. I was punished when I was a child and I fear my mother for this. It's difficult to understand why punishment is necessary when a simple explanation is sufficient to correct a behavior.

*6. Many parents never learned in their own childhood that there are positive ways of relating to children.*
I think this applies to the older generation where parents were born during the 40s to 50s. 

*7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. *
Yes. My mother doesn't accept explanation and she thinks she's always right. So instead of having a good communication, I just keep my feelings to myself to avoid conflict.

*8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. *
When I was young children I do not regard spanking as a sexual pleasure. For me it is an infliction of pain which is sometimes ineffective. 

*9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right"*
This may happen if physical punishment is given for any infraction or misbehavior of a child. Since children are weaker and smaller in built, they may regard adults as physically mightier but as they mature, they will realize that these adults are emotionally weak. 

*10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems.*
Parents resort to physical punishment as the easiest way of disciplining the child. However, this may give a negative message to children to do the right thing to please their parents instead of doing the right thing because it is necessary for their own good.


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## Betski

I was spanked as a child or got it with the fly swatter. I spank my child after the 20th time he doesnt listen. Just enough spank to not laugh at me cause he thinks its funny 90% time. I was never beaten and had a very passive father. My mom was the boss. But it was a house full of sassy girls! I have no issue with spanking. One spank and then time out.


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## Wiserforit

I was beaten pretty severely with a belt. To my surprise We rarely touch the kids, but if we do it is a swat on the behind with our fingers. Not the palm of the hand. 

We just don't feel like doing more than that, and isolating them in a room by themselves seems to be the punishment most dreaded.


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## Vanguard

EleGirl said:


> Sorry, I was too busy beating my kid.. (bad joke I know. He's 6'4". I'm 5'3". Not gonna happen.)
> 
> I do believe that there is a huge difference between spanking a kid and beating them.
> 
> I was spanked as a kid. Don't think that hurt me.. not even physcially. I do think I learned to not do somethings because of it. I was a very naughty child. I have 7 siblings. When we got in trouble I was always the ring leader
> 
> It would drive my dad nuts, 'cause he'd spank me and I'd just look at him and smile as big as I could. Then he's spank by brother who is 16 months younger than me and my brother would cry his eyes out.
> 
> Beating a child is just wrong. There is no excuse for it. Some kids who are abused do grow up to be abusers themselves. I have read that it's about 30% of them who do. So no, most kids who were beaten/abused do not grow up to act that way.


Maybe you need to be spanked in a certain way to evoke a response.


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## Vanguard

Just want to point out that getting hit as a kid didn't teach me to hit people. 

It taught me that there are certain things you shouldn't do, and that if you do them, punishment ensues. 

I think if you're not willing to give your children some degree of physical discipline you're going to have a very sorrowful life.


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## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> @Elegirl
> 
> Hmmm what would you consider acceptable forms of spanking/physical discipline? My STBX did mention that she does most of the disciplining thats why she doesn't give daddy any headaches but I don't know - if so, should I slap my daughter's hand if she ever acts up? She has never done anything in front of me so far that my voice couldn't straighten her up with though.


Long before my son grew to be 6’4” he could be quite a handful. 
For example he would throw tantrums that were pretty bad. For example at one point we were living in an old house that had plaster walls. Over time he kicked the wall next to his bed hard so many times that he collapsed the plaster and put a hole in the wall. He slammed his door some much that the frame started to come lose. Now he was only in Kindergarten and first grade when he did this. He was basically terrorizing the household. This kid really needed to be ‘civilized’.

I called boys town help line for help. They told me that when he got like this to do two things. One was to get him into the middle of a room so he could not kick, slam or otherwise hit/break anything. So I would have to grab him, safely get him off the bed if that was where he was. Generally once he was on the floor I could drag him by his plants leg to the middle of the room. But it could take some work to get him off the bed or other piece of furniture. Sometimes he’s fight me back… I’d swat him on the bottom. It was never hard enough to even leave a red mark. But just the act of swatting him got his attention. And then he was easier to get to the middle of the room. Once he was in the middle of the room I’d tell him that he had to stay there until he got control over himself.

There was one time when he got his hands of a real sling shot. He was using legos as ammunition and running around the house shooting me. Those darn legos have sharp corners on them.. .they HURT. He would not stop. Eventually I got the sling shot away from the pint sized terrorist. And then I started shooting him back…. In the butt. I did this about 4-5 times. He got furious, saying that grown ups should not shoot kids with sling shots. I told him that childen should not shoot adults with them either. His reply was that shooting adults with sling shots was ok. But adults could not do that to children. He then picked up the phone and called 911. I grabbed it out of his hand and hung up. Thank goodness no one ever called back or showed up. Based on this and other conversations I had with him, all the talks in school about child abuse and children’s rights forgot to mention that not only are adults not allowed to hit/hurt children, children are not allowed to hit/hurt adults. He learned the lesson that day.

There was another time. He was in 2nd grade. By then we had left his father. He was acting out quite a bit so I had him in counseling. On the way home from counseling he was in the car yelling and kicking the windshield. Now keep in mind that he was not a small kid. I had visions of the windshield breaking or popping out while I was driving on the freeway. When we got home he was still in a terror. I sent him to his bedroom to cool down. He was in there kicking the wall, yelling, slamming the door, etc. He was now getting close to too big for me to handle physically. I did spank him on the behind. It was not hard enough to leave a mark. But when I did that he calmed down, threw himself on the bed and just cried for the longest time. This was the last time he ever pulled one of his tantrums.

I have thought it odd that parents are not even supposed to spank a child who gets completely out fo control and cannot be talked down. But what happens when you call the police? The will grab the kid, throw him to the ground, sit on him, twist his arms until they almost rip the muscles to gain control. Here in NM there have been cases of police called to handle a kid who is acting out and they seriously hurt the kid. There are a few cases when they killed the kid. 

My son had a level of anger in him from an early age that was pretty scary. I had to learn to handle it and used as much outside help as I could. And yes I did physically tangle with him a few times and I spanked him a few times. It was always to get control of an very strong, out of control kid. In the long run it paid off. Now that he’s 6’4” he no longer has that violent anger. And he also does not have the police record he might have had if I had left him unchallenged. 

Where did my son get his anger? Maybe from watching his father’s abusive behavior? But a lot of it seemed to be just him. We adopted him when he was 10 days old. I don’t know a lot about his family history. A few times he’s mentioned what it feels like to know that his birth parents just gave him away. I just don’t know. But I do believe that a certain amount of carefully used physical interaction was needed when he was younger.


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## EleGirl

Vanguard said:


> Maybe you need to be spanked in a certain way to evoke a response.


Another thing that my kid used to do was to run out in the road laughing his head off. He was a toddler and thought it was funny to watch me lose it when he'd do that. We lived on a street that fast traffic used to come down. 

So eventually I swatted him on the behind a few times to teach him that running into traffic can hurt. Better a swat on the behind then to be hit by a car.


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## RandomDude

EleGirl said:


> Long before my son grew to be 6’4” he could be quite a handful.
> For example he would throw tantrums that were pretty bad. For example at one point we were living in an old house that had plaster walls. Over time he kicked the wall next to his bed hard so many times that he collapsed the plaster and put a hole in the wall. He slammed his door some much that the frame started to come lose. Now he was only in Kindergarten and first grade when he did this. He was basically terrorizing the household. This kid really needed to be ‘civilized’.
> 
> I called boys town help line for help. They told me that when he got like this to do two things. One was to get him into the middle of a room so he could not kick, slam or otherwise hit/break anything. So I would have to grab him, safely get him off the bed if that was where he was. Generally once he was on the floor I could drag him by his plants leg to the middle of the room. But it could take some work to get him off the bed or other piece of furniture. Sometimes he’s fight me back… I’d swat him on the bottom. It was never hard enough to even leave a red mark. But just the act of swatting him got his attention. And then he was easier to get to the middle of the room. Once he was in the middle of the room I’d tell him that he had to stay there until he got control over himself.


Wow! I don't know if I could handle my daughter doing all that, her tantrums mostly involved her giving me those pouting lips, crossing her arms and/or jumping out and down crying. Guess a smack on the bottom or hand seems to be effective, that's one card I can play I guess if my daughter decides to stop being sweet and not have 2nd thoughts about it now - thanks for the reinforcement. I've always been worried what I would do if my voice eventually becomes obselete in disciplining her!



> There was one time when he got his hands of a real sling shot. He was using legos as ammunition and running around the house shooting me. Those darn legos have sharp corners on them.. .they HURT. He would not stop. Eventually I got the sling shot away from the pint sized terrorist. And then I started shooting him back…. In the butt. I did this about 4-5 times. He got furious, saying that grown ups should not shoot kids with sling shots. I told him that childen should not shoot adults with them either.


LOL!!!! :rofl:



> His reply was that shooting adults with sling shots was ok. But adults could not do that to children. He then picked up the phone and called 911. I grabbed it out of his hand and hung up. Thank goodness no one ever called back or showed up. Based on this and other conversations I had with him, all the talks in school about child abuse and children’s rights forgot to mention that not only are adults not allowed to hit/hurt children, children are not allowed to hit/hurt adults. He learned the lesson that day.


Have you watched that video I posted? Skip to near the end where he tells of his father calling his bluff when he was a kid threatening to call "children's aid" heh



> There was another time. He was in 2nd grade. By then we had left his father. He was acting out quite a bit so I had him in counseling. On the way home from counseling he was in the car yelling and kicking the windshield. Now keep in mind that he was not a small kid. I had visions of the windshield breaking or popping out while I was driving on the freeway. When we got home he was still in a terror. I sent him to his bedroom to cool down. He was in there kicking the wall, yelling, slamming the door, etc. He was now getting close to too big for me to handle physically. I did spank him on the behind. It was not hard enough to leave a mark. But when I did that he calmed down, threw himself on the bed and just cried for the longest time. This was the last time he ever pulled one of his tantrums.
> 
> I have thought it odd that parents are not even supposed to spank a child who gets completely out fo control and cannot be talked down. But what happens when you call the police? The will grab the kid, throw him to the ground, sit on him, twist his arms until they almost rip the muscles to gain control. Here in NM there have been cases of police called to handle a kid who is acting out and they seriously hurt the kid. There are a few cases when they killed the kid.
> 
> My son had a level of anger in him from an early age that was pretty scary. I had to learn to handle it and used as much outside help as I could. And yes I did physically tangle with him a few times and I spanked him a few times. It was always to get control of an very strong, out of control kid. In the long run it paid off. Now that he’s 6’4” he no longer has that violent anger. And he also does not have the police record he might have had if I had left him unchallenged.
> 
> Where did my son get his anger? Maybe from watching his father’s abusive behavior? But a lot of it seemed to be just him. We adopted him when he was 10 days old. I don’t know a lot about his family history. A few times he’s mentioned what it feels like to know that his birth parents just gave him away. I just don’t know. But I do believe that a certain amount of carefully used physical interaction was needed when he was younger.


I'm actually quite impressed, you adopted him when he was 10... so alot of his childhood antics must have already been developed earlier on, personally I would have disowned straight away as he wasn't my flesh and blood. He definitely had a very loving mother to put up with all of that, I'll give you that, glad that he grew to appreciate this in the end.

Hell your story makes me wary about having another child actually, like, what if child #2 is a handful like THAT! I think I would be out of my wits!


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## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> I'm actually quite impressed, you adopted him when he was 10... so alot of his childhood antics must have already been developed earlier on, personally I would have disowned straight away as he wasn't my flesh and blood. He definitely had a very loving mother to put up with all of that, I'll give you that, glad that he grew to appreciate this in the end.


No, I adopted him when he was 10 DAYS OLD. I don’t know why he would have those fits so badly. From about the age 1 year to about 3.5 he’d wake up with night terrors and just scream and be uncontrollable. I think that the way he was is an extension of that. Maybe an immature nervous system? Who knows?


RandomDude said:


> Hell your story makes me wary about having another child actually, like, what if child #2 is a handful like THAT! I think I would be out of my wits!


When my son was not throwing a fit he was the sweetest, brightest kid around. Today he’s 24. Working on a degree in Physics and math. He’s grown into a handsome, good man. The young ladies love him ‘cause he’s pretty much what people around TAM call alpha and he treats them with a lot of respect. I have no problems with him at all. He still lives at home while in college.

My two step kids turned out to be quite a handful too. I won’t even go there right now. 

Now you know why I’m crazy :lol:


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## FryFish

10 days old not 10 years old


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## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> BTW guys watch the video, it's funny trust me
> 
> Lol


That is a funny video... pretty true too.

One thing about spanking up to about the age of 6.. I'm not talking about beating.

From the begging of time, up to about a generation for so ago, almost every parent spanked their kids when nothing else seemed to get through to them. It was a rare thing.. but it was a tool available to parents. 

And since then we have produced a generation or two of children who are rude, who are having problems holding down jobs. We have a generation or two of boys and men who are not very productive. 


Study: Spanked Children May Grow Up to Be Happier, More Successful | Fox News


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## Red Sonja

I had a violent childhood; both parents were involved although my father was the major perpetrator. The violence varied from punches, kicks and burns to emergency room visits. None of this caused me to be violent as an adult. The only lasting effects have been occasional nightmares, mild PTSD reactions when dealing with angry people and a few scars. For me, my violent childhood instilled a determination to be a different type of parent (and person) than my parents were.

*Elegirl*, my DD19 (adopted at 13 months) also had “violent fits” when she was young and I dealt with them in a similar manner. I would grab a large blanket, wrap her up in it so she could not hit/kick and then hold her, swaddled like a baby, until she was calm and could talk about what was bothering her. I used this method until she was about 10 years old; it works so much better than spanking and teaches the child to control/calm themselves … eventually .


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## EleGirl

Red Sonja said:


> I had a violent childhood; both parents were involved although my father was the major perpetrator. The violence varied from punches, kicks and burns to emergency room visits. None of this caused me to be violent as an adult. The only lasting effects have been occasional nightmares, mild PTSD reactions when dealing with angry people and a few scars. For me, my violent childhood instilled a determination to be a different type of parent (and person) than my parents were.


I am so sorry that you had to endure this in your childhood. How terrible. It’s a great statement of your character that you come out of such a situation determined to not bring it forward. 

My parents used spanking. My father used a belt often for this. But my mother became very emotionally abusive as we children got older. The spanking, even my father using a belt had no ill effect on me. There are things much worse than spanking that a parent can do to harm their children. My mom’s emotional craziness did cause me harm. She needed help and in those days it was not usual for people to get the help they needed. My saying about the abuse is that it has to stop somewhere… and so it’s stopping with me.



Red Sonja said:


> *Elegirl*, my DD19 (adopted at 13 months) also had “violent fits” when she was young and I dealt with them in a similar manner. I would grab a large blanket, wrap her up in it so she could not hit/kick and then hold her, swaddled like a baby, until she was calm and could talk about what was bothering her. I used this method until she was about 10 years old; it works so much better than spanking and teaches the child to control/calm themselves … eventually .


The blanket is a good idea. Boys town told me to “wrap” myself around my son.. to hold him close with my arms and to even used my legs to hold him until he calmed down. I’d sit in a chair and do this.

The boys town help line was very helpful in teaching me how to handle my son. I suggest it for anyone who is having this type of problem with a child. They were wonderful. They would stay on the line with me sometimes for as long as an hour to help out.


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## Topical storm

He who spares the rod, hates his child. I was whooped with a belt, switches, cords, shoes..smacked upside the head in public, private....got beat with all my clothes off....even got the kunte kente slave whoopings...Guess what? I still love my parents...No harm no foul. I don't have any psychological problems stemming from it.

Some people just don't know the proper way to effectively beat a child. Some people go overboard and sometimes the beating doesn't get to the root of the problem or the parent doesn't follow through with it. Not spanking your child is a relatively new recent philosophy. It really hasn't worked or proved to be effective. I've seen too many foul mouth undisciplined kids that wasn't afforded the cow.


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## Red Sonja

Topical storm said:


> He who spares the rod, hates his child. I was whooped with a belt, switches, cords, shoes..smacked upside the head in public, private....got beat with all my clothes off....even got the kunte kente slave whoopings


The problems from this method of discipline arise from people (parents) that don’t know when to stop, don’t practice limits or that administer discipline while in a rage. For example: my father once slapped me in the face so hard that I was thrown across the room, impacted a wall and ended up unconscious and with a concussion. I was 3 years old and yes, I remember it.

*There is no proper way to “beat” a child. * If you leave marks/wounds on a child you have exceeded the limit and crossed over into abuse. Swat on the butt with your hand … YES, “beat” … NO, humiliate … NO.


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## JustSomeGuyWho

Topical storm said:


> He who spares the rod, hates his child. I was whooped with a belt, switches, cords, shoes..smacked upside the head in public, private....got beat with all my clothes off....even got the kunte kente slave whoopings...Guess what? I still love my parents...No harm no foul. I don't have any psychological problems stemming from it.
> 
> Some people just don't know the proper way to effectively beat a child. Some people go overboard and sometimes the beating doesn't get to the root of the problem or the parent doesn't follow through with it. Not spanking your child is a relatively new recent philosophy. It really hasn't worked or proved to be effective. I've seen too many foul mouth undisciplined kids that wasn't afforded the cow.


The problem I think is when corporal punishment is used when more effective methods could be used. In other words, problem: child acts up, solution: spanking ... problem: child gets bad grades, solution: spanking. Instead of the standard punishment, it should be used sparingly when nothing else seems to work. 

I do not use corporal punishment. I have never struck my child in any manner. I don't need to. I have their respect and I am the authority in the household. My girls are very well behaved and respectful. I mentioned in a previous post; we frequently receive compliments from other parents, teachers and even complete strangers on how well mannered our children are. That is not to say that I am against corporal punishment. I imagine that it might be necessary/effective under some situations. 

My point is that it is a vast oversimplification to say that the reason these children are foul-mouthed and undisciplined is because their parents refused to "beat them." I would say that the reason is that parents allow their children to get away with it, regardless of what type of punishment is used.


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## RandomDude

EleGirl said:


> No, I adopted him when he was 10 DAYS OLD. I don’t know why he would have those fits so badly. From about the age 1 year to about 3.5 he’d wake up with night terrors and just scream and be uncontrollable. I think that the way he was is an extension of that. Maybe an immature nervous system? Who knows?


Ok now I'm scared... looks like sometimes there's nothing a parent can do to avoid the possibility of crazy kids! lol
Hell I'm glad I only have one kid now, and an angel at that!



> When my son was not throwing a fit he was the sweetest, brightest kid around. Today he’s 24. Working on a degree in Physics and math. He’s grown into a handsome, good man. The young ladies love him ‘cause he’s pretty much what people around TAM call alpha and he treats them with a lot of respect. I have no problems with him at all. He still lives at home while in college.
> 
> My two step kids turned out to be quite a handful too. I won’t even go there right now.
> 
> Now you know why I’m crazy :lol:


LOL, yeah I reckon just one kid like that would be enough to drive me bonkers let alone 3...



> And since then we have produced a generation or two of children who are rude, who are having problems holding down jobs. We have a generation or two of boys and men who are not very productive.


Oh yeah, I get them sometimes in my restaurant, and the parents can't control them and even seemingly let them run riot around the place without supervision and I had to grab their hand and drag them to their parents. They make a hell of a mess too!

Whoever was working on those sections with kids like that, we always get other our waiters/waitresses to help out the poor sod with the horrid table. Seriously some parents!!!


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## BWBill

My mother had 4 boys. Us two older were spanked a lot, but then her arm must have gotten tired because my two younger brothers were not. We all turned out about the same.

I think there is a difference between spanking and beating, although some spankings can be raised to the level of beating. Mom never beat us.

I spanked my daughter once when she ran out into the street. Got her attention.

We found that time outs were effective, but if they hadn't been I would have gone to spankings.

Spanking definitely raises the ire of some people, but I think failing to discipline children is worse.


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## Mavash.

I've chosen to use other methods to teach my 3 kids. I don't spank never needed to. I've done it a couple of times when they were little in anger but I apologized for it. I'm more of a love, logic and consequences parent.


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## Emerald

My parents were very calm (outwardly) folks. They didn't yell, spank or abuse us 6 children in any way. They were loving & never critical. I developed good self-esteem & had a lovely childhood.

As such, I am very sensitive (maybe too much so) to any behavior that even "feels" like abuse & spanking falls into that category for me anyway.

I raised my 2 daughters the same way I was raised. My husband was abusive verbally & emotionally to all of us. He WANTED to spank the girls & I would literally jump in between to them to prevent it.

They are both grown, college educated & independent.

They thank me for not letting their Father spank them but will never forgive me for allowing him to verbally & emotionally abuse them.

I also want to add that I reserve no judgement for different parenting styles (spanking, etc.).


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## Lyris

I wasn't smacked as a child, and I've never seen the need to smack mine. They're six and three, and lovely co-operative helpful kids. 

If they are having issues, it's because they're tired, hungry or getting sick. Not much point smacking them because of any of that.


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## Mr.Stinger

I never hit my children (two imps). Never. There are more severe punishments than belt. Be creative. One thing is to beat crap out of them and other - to teach them how to be an adult.


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## somethingelse

Beat my children? I'd beat whoever tried to beat my children. Can't stand the thought of letting loose on a child. That's abuse and unnecessary to say in the least. My mom was beat as a kid by her mother, and she has huge anxiety issues to this day.

Now spanking for punishment purposes? I'm ok with that. I was spanked as a kid. My parents love me, I love them, it was out of love and I turned out to be a very loyal person, responsible person, and I like that. 

I don't usually spank my kids, but there are times when it is a good tool to use if a child is getting REALLY out of hand. Otherwise a good time out, or enforcement of good behaviour and habits are what I use to help my children behave. Being the example setter is always a plus too.


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## turnera

I got spanked. Once. I deserved it. And I still remember it. But I wasn't very nurtured, and I grew up with toxic shame.

My DD22 got spanked once. She deserved it. She doesn't even remember it. She's been raised to feel extremely loved and wanted and sure of herself. 

I think there's an analysis in there somewhere.


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## diwali123

How did your parents evict you? That's illegal. 
I'm sorry for what you went through. I had an abusive childhood too. I have only spanked my child a few times in very dangerous situations. 
Other than that it's all behavior based and people comment on what a great kid she is.


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## Theseus

I guess I would consider myself "pro-spanking" although my wife and I used it very rarely. Some children of non-spankers are harmed as well; they have such a sense of dependence on their parents and entitlement that the effective emotional damage was just as bad as someone who was physically abused. Here are my own thoughts on those points:



> *1. Hitting children teaches them to become hitters themselves. *


So taking away a child's allowance teaches them to steal from others? Putting them in a "time out" teaches them to kidnap others?

If spanking kids just teaches them to spank their own kids, I don't see what the problem is.



> *3. Punishment distracts the child from learning how to resolve conflict in an effective and humane way.*


I agree, but when we are talking about very young children, you can't sit down with them and reason with them on every issue.



> *4. The phrase "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is not from the Bible but from Samuel Butler's "Hudibras" *


But the original phrase is from Proverbs 13:24: "_Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them._"



> *5. Punishment interferes with the bond between parent and child, as it is not human nature to feel loving toward someone who hurts us.*


Then ANY kind of discipline or punishment would interfere between the parent and child bond. Good luck raising a kid without using any discipline whatsoever!



> *7. Anger and frustration which cannot be safely expressed by a child become stored inside; angry teenagers do not fall from the sky. *


Spoiled children don't fall from the sky either.



> *8. Spanking on the buttocks, an erogenous zone in childhood, can create in the child's mind an association between pain and sexual pleasure, and lead to difficulties in adulthood. *


Then you would expect that spanking fetishes would be almost gone by now, yet judging by surveys on sex fantasies, and the porn available, they are still going strong.



> *9. Physical punishment gives the dangerous and unfair message that "might makes right"*


This makes little sense, because then ANY method of discipline is teaching the kids that "might makes right". When you give your child a "time out", send them to their room or take away privileges, they know you are able to do it because you are bigger and stronger. It's no different from corporal punishment in that regard.



> *10. Because children learn through parental modeling, physical punishment gives the message that hitting is an appropriate way to express feelings and to solve problems.*


Well, that will certainly be true if that is the ONLY way you discipline your child! Spanking should be only one tool in your toolbox. It shouldn't be your only one.


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## NextTimeAround

Both my parents used corporal punishment on us. 

When I was younger, both my parents used a belt on a me. My mother would use a hairbrush. I remember at least one time it was when she wanted to use a hot iron to straighten my hair........ oh god, there are some things about being black that I hate......

As I reached adolescence I don't recall it happening but I do remember the threats and the fact that I backed down I was the third of 6 children..... and I felt that I was often saddled with the house and especially after the older sibling left to go to university....... guess who was left with the housework..... my younger siblings are too young to be responsible for picking after themselves, I am the mature one, I was told.....

I graduated in the top 25% of my class in high school, but I sometimes wonder if I could have done better if I could have had more time to do my homework than cleaning someone else's piss off the toilet seats along with giving younger siblings a bath and putting them to bed............ since i was a teenager, my mother has never lost an opportunity to call me stupid...... quite often asking me questions that she assumes that she knows the answer..... and when I don't answer as she would expect, she calls me stupid .....

Like the others here, my parents don't remember any of this....... but my mother does remember that I am terrible at housework......... now that I feel secure in my current relationship (at the age of 54), my feelings for my birth family are definitely unraveling.........


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## mablenc

Next time, it's never too late to get counseling. I have benefited so much from it, and now know a lot of whys, to my personally, fears and behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

When we were kids, we would get routinely beaten with a belt, wooden spoon or whatever happened to be there for any infraction, from accidentally spilling something to lying. My mother's favorite threat was: "If I find out you have (insert transgression here), your ass has had it!"

My sister reacted by being rebellious, getting into trouble and mouthing off to anyone who didn't agree with her. Consequences from which she pays for to this day.

I reacted by accepting it-convinced that if I got smacked, well then, I deserved it. I was bullied growing up, was very withdrawn and a bit of a social pariah, because, well-I deserved it.

But, I decided a long time ago that I would in no way raise my daughter the way I was brought up. 

She is a straight-A student, is 1st-chair viola in her school orchestra, has a group of loyal friends, has a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, is a talented artist and a great dancer and singer, has a wonderful sense of humor and is very well behaved.

And my W and I have NEVER laid a hand in anger on her.

Gee, never hit our kid...must be doing SOMETHING right, don't ya think?


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