# Gee... How about we drag this out a little longer...



## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

So STBXH and I decided to divorce. He told me he didn't want to do any paperwork, pay for anything, or go to court.

Okay.

I get all of the paperwork together and write up a separation agreement based on all of the details we worked out. After a few revisions, we were both 'happy' with the agreement. STBXH says he wants a lawyer to look at it.

Okay.

So he takes the agreement to this lawyer (who he has known through church for 20+ years, mind you, so that kind of has me skiddish) and he comes home this evening and says he's not going to sign the agreement.

Yeah, I knew THAT was going to happen.

Instead STBXH wants to do mediation. This is a $2K-$5K commitment, depending on how evil things get, and STBXH wants me to pay for half of it (STBXH is fronting the funds and offering me 5 years to pay him back).

So here is what I am wondering...

1) The mediator is going to do the paperwork. Well, I've already done the paperwork, and they make no mention of filing the fee waiver that STBXH and I qualify for, so there's an extra $800 ON TOP OF the mediation fees. I've asked STBXH to confirm if the fee waiver can be done, because he didn't ask. If they won't help process the fee waiver, then that right there is a big red flag for me.

2) The mediator is going to walk us through division of property. Well, we already did that. We don't really have anything.

3) The mediator is going to walk us through custody arrangements. We already did that too.

4) The mediator is going to walk us through support (both child and spousal). We did this too, and I thought STBXH was okay with everything after he whittled down most of what he originally agreed to, but now I'm thinking that HE is thinking that going through the court system (or mediation or whatever) will 'get him off the hook' and that he'll end up paying less.

So right now, I'm not sure exactly what the point of paying all this money is unless STBXH has some crazy idea that going through the court is going to help him pay less overall. If we base support off of how things are now, he's going to get screwed. I've run the numbers.

I have no problem with mediation. I would definitely prefer it over litigation. I have no problem splitting divorce expenses in general. My problem is that this seems like an insane amount of money to pay just for him to go through the process, find out he's going to get screwed worse by not going with our original agreement, and then backing out and getting stuck with having paid for mediation we didn't complete.

Would it be out of line to ask him to sign something saying that if he backs out of mediation that I don't have to pay him back my share of the mediation expenses? I am just so sick of getting stuck holding the bag when he changes his mind about stuff.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What in the agreement does he want to change? Has he told you?


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## Swooter (Apr 16, 2012)

...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I would not recommend you do mediation. That is really a process for two people who more or less agree on everything and from what you've said, it doesn't sound like he's going to agree. The mediator cannot advise and will nor force someone to make up their mind. I've know several couples who have tried mediation (for a year) and still don't have any meaningful agreement. I've also known a few who have used mediation with success, but again, there's a general agreement about property/support/visitation and they merely need someone to "walk them through" the legalese.

See if there are some attorneys in your area that practice collaborative divorce, in which each party has an attorney (hence, independent advise), but the goal is NO COURT and quick resolution.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> What in the agreement does he want to change? Has he told you?


He has not come out explicitly and said what he's not happy with, but from what he has told me, I have a good guess.

The lawyer told him that there was nothing in the agreement to benefit him (which I find odd, because in our agreement, he keeps all of his stuff plus a bunch of things we bought during the marriage as well as several things I owned before we married. He also gets the car and the visitation that HE said he wanted). I am guessing that this all stems from the sections regarding child support and spousal support.

STBXH originally agreed to give me money to help pay off part of my student loans. As a favor to him, I called that money spousal support knowing full well I'd have to pay taxes on it, and knowing the he would be able to claim a deduction on his taxes. I didn't have to do that. I could have just written it in as an amount he agreed to give me. I think he is trying to weasel out of that money. 

Also, the lawyer apparently told him that if I didn't go after spousal support and then applied for government aid, that I would get more money and the county would only go after STBXH for a fraction of that: making it sound like it was better for ME to not get support from STBXH and that STBXH would end up paying less money in the long run. I don't know how true this is, but I'm really not fond of the idea. 

The lawyer was telling him about housing assistance and childcare assistance and what not, and I told STBXH that they only accept applications for those things during one point in the year and that the waiting list for housing help for non-emergency cases is 2+ years, and childcare assistance is 1+ year, which the lawyer neglected to tell him, if he even knows.

STBXH tried to play it off like he wants the mediation so that our paperwork gets done properly, however, I am confident in my paperwork abilities (which is why I am going to school to be a paralegal), and the county has it's own family law mediator and paperwork assistance that DOES NOT cost $2800+.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Swooter said:


> I so understand your frustrations...especially about him changing his mind "about stuff" and getting stuck holding the bag.
> 
> I filed for divorce on fault grounds. He contested, wanted mediation and to change it to "no fault" - he doesn't want the filing with the grounds on record (which it is, regardless - another story for another day). I agreed, went through mediation, agreed to separation for a year rather than fault divorce, paid my half of mediation, my half for the house appraisal, my half of everything and all of my own attorney fees. He ended up giving me the house in full - in mediation, no deed signed- the custody as I asked all for for a few "minor" considerations on my part - and one blank to be filled in at our next meeting - the signing of the separate maintenance agreement to be the same day as was our court date. _One_ blank leaving sigatures pending until filled.
> 
> ...


This is really what I am afraid of. I seriously believe that STBXH only wants mediation because he's hoping to get out of paying what we agreed and he wants to have the 'control' by having chosen the mediator (who is a family friend). I'm not interested in paying thousands of dollars for him to get part way through this and then back out.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Sounds like this lawyer is just pulling everything out of his arse to keep this going and run you down.

My stbxw was the one who wanted this, she thinks we would just sit down and come up with everything on our own .. at first I agreed. Soon I learned that she doesn't consider half of our marital assets or even loans 'her responsibility'.

She thinks she doesn't have to pay her part of our loan because SOME of that money was debt from me missing time off work due to my back. She also thinks the car she bought previous to our marriage isn't a marital asset .. because it was paid off by inheritance she got while we were married .. that went and paid off a large loan we had.

So, I've asked her for mediation, because really .. she doesn't seem to understand things. Considers it all separate, doesn't work that way after 5 years of marriage.

Now she's dragging her feet on taking this course, which would give us government mediation (free).

We talked last weekend, I came out of it feeling like a fool, everything is one sided so I don't think she will be happy when I let her know I'm changing my mind on a few things.

This divorce [email protected] sucks.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> I would not recommend you do mediation. That is really a process for two people who more or less agree on everything and from what you've said, it doesn't sound like he's going to agree. The mediator cannot advise and will nor force someone to make up their mind. I've know several couples who have tried mediation (for a year) and still don't have any meaningful agreement. I've also known a few who have used mediation with success, but again, there's a general agreement about property/support/visitation and they merely need someone to "walk them through" the legalese.
> 
> See if there are some attorneys in your area that practice collaborative divorce, in which each party has an attorney (hence, independent advise), but the goal is NO COURT and quick resolution.


This is what irks me. Up until this point, we haven't really had any bone grinding disagreements. We have voiced concerns about issues and managed to work them out to come to a resolution. Now it seems like he's no longer on board because this lawyer basically looked at our agreement and turned his nose up at it. 

I honestly don't see how mediation can give STBXH better results unless it is discovered that he magically owes no support at all, which I just can't see happening. The amount I had allotted for child support was insanely low to begin with (as voiced by many of the members of this board), so I'm not sure if he's expecting that to go down or not. 

As for spousal support, the amount he agreed to pay me to go toward my student loans is higher by a few dollars (like $20-30ish) a month than what I would get in support as things currently stand, so again I'm not sure what the point of mediation is. He may end up paying a few dollars less in spousal support, but he's going to be paying double in child support. And I think once he realizes that, he's going to back out of mediation and want to sign the original agreement, and then I'm going to be angry.

This is all about money. STBXH does not want to give any money to 'benefit' me at all, and in his mind this includes child support too. He doesn't see child support as supporting his child. He sees it as a shopping spree for me or something, which I find totally insulting since I'm the one using every penny I have to buy food and things for this house's functioning and he's out spending $600 in ONE MONTH on fast food and beer. 

He has no grounds to get uppity about my spending habits. I've pulled all of my financial records and I can show where every penny I've gotten has gone, and none of it is frivolous. I've also pulled his records, and it's a huge mess. Charge after charge from Del Taco and the liquor store.


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## Swooter (Apr 16, 2012)

...


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Well, I am coming at this from the other point of view. My stbxw wants to do this pro se because we can not afford attorney's, so she drafted a proposal and went through it with me very carefully explaining everything and how she was asking for this and asking for that, and everybody agreed that she really should ask for this, and that she really deserved that. She said over and over that she was not screwing me over, and that this settlement was very fair, and that she was not going to make me pay for everything that she is entitled to get.

Over the past 17 years of marriage, I have learned exactly what she meant by her tone and what she was saying. She is fully expecting that I will sign off on it, in fact, she expected it that night. She was not asking for anything. She was telling me what she was getting, and assumed that I was going to be like I have been over the course of our marriage, and simply agree with her. Well, I did not sign the agreement. Some of the gems were her needing $1500 per month for food for her and the three kids, her expecting that I will pay $100/month for her yoga, that half of all future retierment goes to her, that 4/5 of future tax returns go to her.

I have no problem with the child support at all which in my state would be $1280/month, but she is also expecting $1920/month in spousal support.

It all boils down to this. I take home about 52,000 per year. She does not have a job, and has had less that 1 year total employment while we were married between three jobs she took and quit. I never once asked her to get a job, even when we filed for bankruptcy. She was the financial manager in our formaer family. Her settlement amounts to $41,600/ year for her to just scrape by on leaving me with $10,400/per year. The sad part is that she honestly believes that this is fair and generous to me, and that I should be happy with it.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Well, I am coming at this from the other point of view. My stbxw wants to do this pro se because we can not afford attorney's, so she drafted a proposal and went through it with me very carefully explaining everything and how she was asking for this and asking for that, and everybody agreed that she really should ask for this, and that she really deserved that. She said over and over that she was not screwing me over, and that this settlement was very fair, and that she was not going to make me pay for everything that she is entitled to get.
> 
> Over the past 17 years of marriage, I have learned exactly what she meant by her tone and what she was saying. She is fully expecting that I will sign off on it, in fact, she expected it that night. She was not asking for anything. She was telling me what she was getting, and assumed that I was going to be like I have been over the course of our marriage, and simply agree with her. Well, I did not sign the agreement. Some of the gems were her needing $1500 per month for food for her and the three kids, her expecting that I will pay $100/month for her yoga, that half of all future retierment goes to her, that 4/5 of future tax returns go to her.
> 
> ...


That sounds insane to me. That's way too much, in my opinion.

Here is the thing: a good amount of women expect to be taken care of after a divorce. That is NOT what I am after. I fully intend to finish school, get a job, and build a household for myself and my son. I'm not expecting loads of money from STBXH just to be evil or because I think I 'deserve' it.

I left a decent job to stay home with our son so that my husband could go back to work because he was tired of being a stay at home dad, and I wanted to be home with my son anyway. We agreed at that point that I would continue to stay home with our son until he went to school, at which point I would re-enter the work force because, as great as my son is and as much as I enjoy being with him, I need to work. Being a housewife has never been a permanent solution for me.

Part of my leaving my job was an agreement that my husband would assist me in paying OFF my student loans. Once divorce became imminent, he changed that to only wanting to help with 10K of it...then he changed it to even less. Now he is acting like he doesn't want to pay any of it at all. I realize this debt is mine, however, before we married he had gotten a DUI and I spent thousands of dollars paying that off as well as a multitude of gambling debts he racked up. This whole thing is annoying me because now that he's the one making the money, he is back pedaling on everything.

I could understand if he had to make money to support a household how he might want to nickel and dime me to death in the divorce, but the fact of the matter is, he pays no rent, no utilities, no car payment, etc. I have no pity for him financially.

All I want is to be able to finish school and get a job to make a good home for our son. STBXH doesn't seem to give two cents about that. He wants me out of here and he wants me out with as little out of pocket for him as possible because he feels no obligation to keep his word or take care of his kid. Which means he's also being cheap about our son and THAT I have absolutely no tolerance for. Our son did not ask to be born and he had no choice in having us as parents. I will NOT let my STBXH screw our son out of the support that HE deserves as an innocent bystander in this mess.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I have no tolerance for avoiding child support either, and from what you said, it does appear that he is backtracking. How does child support work in your state? In mine, the parent receiving support can receive it from the state, and the person paying, pays it to the state, that way there is no argument possible between the two, and the child support gets paid regardless.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> I have no tolerance for avoiding child support either, and from what you said, it does appear that he is backtracking. How does child support work in your state? In mine, the parent receiving support can receive it from the state, and the person paying, pays it to the state, that way there is no argument possible between the two, and the child support gets paid regardless.


It's done that way here too, or it can be arranged so that one party pays the other directly.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Kearson said:


> It's done that way here too, or it can be arranged so that one party pays the other directly.


I really don't like the idea of paying the othder directly. Too easy to have a payment "missed".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

California has pretty clear guidelines on child support, spousal support and student loans.

The attorney most likely advised your husband to stick with the state guidelines on all of this.

If I recall correctly, your husband makes minimum wage and you have been married a few months short of 4 years. 

Thus any child support obligation he has while you are unemployed is going to be very small. 

He will have no spousal support obligations because yours is a short term marriage.

While he promised to pay some of your student loans, he is not legally obligated to do so. And it does look like he wants to back out of that. The court or mediator will not make him pay on the loans unless he agrees to do it.

So besides splitting some household and personal items it seems that there is very little to your divorce. Why not just offer him a settlement exactly along state guidelines and save the mediation costs?

I also recall that when you did work, you made at least twice what he makes. So once you are back to work, you will most likely be paying him child support if he petitions for recalculation based on change of circumstances.

Sticking to state guidelines will help you in the future if he tries to get more child support out of you once you start working again.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Your best bet if you can`t talk him out of this is to go straight to litigation.

You`ll be paying out for mediation anyway, might as well pay out for litigation AND get a better deal for yourself when all is said and done.

Let him screw himself if he`s so intent on doing so.


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## Kearson (Jan 18, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> California has pretty clear guidelines on child support, spousal support and student loans.
> 
> The attorney most likely advised your husband to stick with the state guidelines on all of this.
> 
> ...


My husband makes above minimum wage. His monthly gross has been consistently around 2400 for the last 2 months. The mediator advised him that he would be responsible for support for half the marriage, which will be 2years once we actually get into mediation.



EleGirl said:


> While he promised to pay some of your student loans, he is not legally obligated to do so. And it does look like he wants to back out of that. The court or mediator will not make him pay on the loans unless he agrees to do it.
> 
> So besides splitting some household and personal items it seems that there is very little to your divorce. Why not just offer him a settlement exactly along state guidelines and save the mediation costs?


My husband wants to go to mediation because he does not want me filling out the paperwork.



EleGirl said:


> I also recall that when you did work, you made at least twice what he makes. So once you are back to work, you will most likely be paying him child support if he petitions for recalculation based on change of circumstances.
> 
> Sticking to state guidelines will help you in the future if he tries to get more child support out of you once you start working again.


I made $8.50/hr more than he's making now. However, I cannot get that job back and have been unable to get any employment (even fast food jobs) in the last two months of applying. I haven't even been called for interviews


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