# My wife with OM -- a unique twist



## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm new to the site and love the comments from the different people here.

I'm like others here with a wife who had an affair, but ours is a unique situation. The OM actually lived in our house for three months as he worked as a travelling soccer trainer for our local club. It's easy to see why my W grew attached to him, as she has been a stay-at-home mom for 12 years and he was a ready-made person who would talk to her all day (he didn't work until 5 at night).

We've had problems communicating for years, and I began to see worrisome signs that things were growing more serious. As my suspicions grew, she claimed "he's just a friend," and I backed off because I knew how unhappy she had been. She accused me of being jealous, controlling and irrational about the situation, so I tried to reassure myself.

Needless to say, I found out the truth by walking in on them while they were away with my 4 boys (ages 12, 10, 8 and 5) at a waterpark in late November. At the time, she was convinced he wanted to marry her and said we were over.

But as I said in my tagline, this situation is unique. The OM is a single 29 year-old from England who doesn't have a job back at home. He left the U.S. four days after I discovered the A, and since then my W and him have been carrying on communications via text and Skype. She has had trouble being truthful about what has been going on between them, and that lack of honesty has been by far the toughest thing for me.

We've both been seeing individual counselors, but she's not sure if she wants to reconcile yet. In fact she has been talking divorce, going so far as to discuss her options with a couple of different lawyers. I have never given her an ultimatum as to when she needs to cut off communications with him, but only said that IF she wants to work on our marriage she must maintain no contact at that time.

My conundrum is what to do about the OM. He currently is in England and might or might not be coming back to the States. A part of me wants to call his employer (which relies on families to house its trainers to help curtail costs) to tell them what happened, but fear that this will put the final nail in the coffin of my marriage. And since he isn't married, the only other option is to contact his parents, but I'm even less sure about that.

Since it's only been a month since discovery, I'm willing to continue with the status quo (we're living under the same house but in separate rooms) for a few more months. But he is scheduled to possibly return to the States in the spring (either here or somewhere else), so I think my time is ripe without him around.

Any/all comments are welcome!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The answers is Yes far and wide.. I will post further detail in a moment


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Expose Expose Expose - Why are you worried about the OM? I'm sure his company would not want the bad press either. Your wife is in a fog - she may just snap out of it with the exposure. I would expose to her famliy, your family, his employer - Facebook, everywhere. I would also cut off the means to communicate with this jack-hole. Cut the internet off or block certain sites. 

CUT IT OFF!

The more you can cut off all contact and the sooner the better your chances of recovery. 

Are you working on your Love Busters and meeting the emeotional needs that this jerk was fulfilling for your wife?


I'm sure Eli-Zor will have better ideas than me.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You start implementing what is called a Plan A. I will post a copy later.

First though you have to expose the affair. Do not be afraid of this step. Exposure is to your family, your wifes, to the parents of the children he coached, all his family and friends 

You trawl facebook for his information if he is on there, I assume at his age he probably is, copy all his friends details into word, if he has it locked down load a keylogger, I suspect your wife will be on his friends list, login with her ID and copy all his friends list off. 


For the OM

You identify his family, please note family may support him, you then chose as many married persons or parents you can find. If they are listed on facebook and he has say 30 friends, you send to all 30, if he has 200 friends you have to do some filtering. You are targeting those persons he interacts with or your best guess..

Here is the face book or email letter to OM's friends, family and parents of the children he coached

Facebook / Email letter



> Dear friend of XXXX,(full name of OM)
> 
> It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends and family should know that XXX is having an affair with my wife, (your wifes first and last name) . They started the affair in ZZZZ.
> 
> ...




Now for the exposure to her family and friends. Same processes if your wife is on Facebook target the primary friends and family first then the rest, close family like parents call and send the letter or email.



> Dear XXX
> 
> I would like to ask you to support YYYY(your wifes name) and myself in restoring our marriage which currently is undergoing an extremely difficult time due to XXX (OM full name ) and YYY( your wifes full name) being involved in an adulterous affair which is affecting our marriage and both of our physical and mental health.
> 
> ...



Exposure is one of the steps in the Marriage Builders process, the intent is to target as many persons who your wife and the OM interact with.

The exposure must be thorough. Facebook messages must be sent with a 60 second or 90 second break between them or they will lock you out. 

Exposure works if you follow the guidelines, please harden yourself and fight for your marriage and *YES tell his employer* use the same message you send to his friends, the employer will decide what to do with him. Parents will talk and he will not have a job to come to. 


Best of luck


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Plan A is:----




> The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
> 
> 
> The carrot of Plan A
> ...





Do not ever tell your wife what your Plan A or B is you just do them and do not let her know you are exposing.

She will shout, threaten scream etc.. this is wayward behaviour and will dissipate over time. Your marriage is worth a lot more that her pride so please do expose.

I bet the soccer coach has a girlfriend on his facebook profile when you have extracted the list see if you can track who she is. 


If for some reason you cannot get into his facebook account still expose this to the employer and parents, he will get the message. Please do this as broad as you can and prepare the list properly.

Questions? 

Do you need links to the affaircare site and/or MB site for reference to their articles ?


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

As far as some of Eli's suggestions are concerned, I have informed all of her family and mine that she is having the affair. My boss also knows what is going on because I've been pretty distracted.

I've been instituting Plan A as well already and I've seen an increase in physical contact between us over the past four days. As the time since she has been with him increases (it's been exactly one month today), we have gotten along much better and have had more constructive conversations

I'm torn about contacting anyone related to him because I'm hoping/thinking that his person is going to just fade away with time. I am committed to a 6-month period to see where this goes, and I believe that any overt actions will accelerate her angry response (filing for divorce, etc.).

This is why I think our situation is unique -- with him an ocean away, I have the time to wait it out. But the emotional strain has been high and I have four boys to think about as well. If I am forced to leave, they will be with an unemployed mom in a house she can't afford, and they don't deserve that.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> I'm torn about contacting anyone related to him because I'm hoping/thinking that his person is going to just fade away with time. I am committed to a 6-month period to see where this goes, and I believe that any overt actions will accelerate her angry response (filing for divorce, etc


Every time your wife contacts him she is back to the beginning. She is in a full blown affair with him and unless you get the OM out of the way your marriage is over. 

Your fear of her divorcing you will lose you your marriage, you are not in the affair she is, being angry and the divorce word is the threat of waywards and the fear of betrayed spouses, turn it around, you telling the truth is the threat to the affair and the salvation of the marriage. 

You draw a line in the sand, as you well know she will be in contact with him again, he is her drug dealer and she needs her fix.

You tell his employers,

You send the message on his facebook or email his family .


Faith, hope , fear, religion or any thing else other than proactive action will not save your marriage. Action from you is to effectively remove the OM out of the picture and ensure no future contact occurring. 

You have the weapons. We told you how to use them. Give yourself the gift of self-respect and save your marriage. Get in and fight.


> This is why I think our situation is unique -


Absolutely NOT, even your reaction is not unique.

She is following the script, as are you with your concerns. Your wife may have even gone deeper underground, highly likely. During an affair faking it in bed with the spouse becomes an art to waywards. The level of deception is astounding so ...do you want to save your marriage or pretend you have it under control. 

If as you say you Plan A'd her and the affair is "over" she should now be able to agree to the following


1. Send a no contact letter----has she done this, have you read it before sending, do you want an example template. 

2. Full transparency , emails, facebook, no skype etc.

3. and commit to rebuilding the marriage.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

I agree w/ Eli-Zor's advise. My wife's affair partner was on the opposite coast, 2000 miles apart. He came into town and turned their EA into a PA. This is not charades, you are fighting for your marriage! Avail yourself of whatever means to save your marriage. You need to send a very clear message to the pr*ck that you want him to stay away!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Please do not kid yourself.

You are not new to this and everything your wife does can be forecast.

Winter is a good time to break an affair and start rebuilding a marriage. Spring and Summer is when affairs start to take off again.

Why would you think you know better than experts from affaircare or the MB sites. They work on these issues day in and day out. 

Your marriage is in trouble, expose the affair, followed by her committing to the marriage. Words, actions and deeds.

Furthermore, you do not leave your house , if there are issues she leaves she is in the affair not you, as for your children they stay with you, these are further tools in your stable. Do not underestimate your ability to save your marriage, all that holds you back is uncertainty and fear.


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

First, it's not his fault that this affair happened...It takes two to tango...She was a willing participant...She was hungry for a part of her that was missing...This is true of many women...It takes time to find themselves...Because of this experience she may be more of a woman to you or live in her own mind with her thoughts of yesterday...Yours is the classic example of an affair and it's happening...That being the woman within the woman who can't control her desire to be fulfilled...

It is possible that in time she teaches you this new lesson in life that she has found...Sexual happiness is a mystery...I wonder how many people realize this part of themself that hides in the back of their mind...And even more sad that they don't open their mind to their partner to start....


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## seagrovelady (Dec 23, 2010)

If you truly love your wife, fight for her and for your marriage. She is confused and is not thinking straight right now. She is resentful of you and dazed by her lover. Fight for her. She will wake up one day and realize what a mistake it was.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Thanks to all who have commented thus far. I appreciate all your words of encouragement. I just discovered that my wife and the OM have set up a secret email address to have her converse with only him. And the messages they have sent have made me sure that I need to make sure he is out of the picture -- I'm just not sure what form that is going to take yet.


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Of course she's still communicating with him. You need to put a stop to it! 

Expose hard and fast and hit the OM right in the mouth. Make him lose his job. Make him lose his life as he knows it. He certainly didn't care! He came in and took your wife and still has her!!!!!

I know you're scared. 

Heed Eli-zor's message above. All of this will follow a basic script. There may be variations but all basically the same!


You think you're the only one? It happens everyday! 

Gather your evidence and then strike hard! 

Cruise over to the Marriage builders site and look for a post by Reynolds How to deal with a returned EX - Marriage Builders® Forums

He just exposed within last 72 hrs and affair is over. Read it from start to finish. Is his marriage going to recover? Who knows. Bur he has a heck of a better chance with the affair dead and OM gone!

Good Luck my friend! You can do this. She is in the fog and living a fantasy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

You absolutely need to expose the affair to whatever service / employer placed him in your home.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You expose again to everyone including her family, you have the scripts and words , do not dilute them and take action. This has to be a double hit at the same time. Do this if you can before Christmas , it is a very good time to let their secret out. 

it sounds terrible to say expose now and you may have second thoughts, do this as the impact on both during this time will be huge, your wife must know you are fighting and will pull out no stops to save the family. 

If she threatens to leave help pack her bags there and then even if it is Christmas day. 

Please do listen , this will help you immensely , remember the parents of the children he coached, no one will want him on their house especially once they know he is an cheat , why would they put their families at risk.

Do not miss a beat on this and do NOT TELL YOUR WIFE WHAT YOU ARE DOING 




> I'm just not sure what form that is going to take yet.


Facebook, or text everyone on her phone contact list etc.. 

What is the issue regarding what form it is going to take, please elaborate ?

It sounds like we are being harsh on you, we are not this is to save your marriage and is very serious. I assure you they have during their conversations spoken about being together and there may already be a strawman plan in place. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Eli, as far as what form I will take regarding taking action, I was referring to the texting and Facebooking of friends. I'm not sure that I can go that far to destroy my wife's name and reputation, although I can say that I'm getting closer to that.

I am going to be speaking with the OM's employer at the beginning of the new year, because I don't think the office is open again until then. I will NOT do this during the Christmas break, as I won't drag the kids directly into the mess and ruin their holiday.

And as far as talking about being together, yes, I have seen the communications regarding being together and what they will do together. That is what has cemented my willingness to take the next step down the road to save my marriage.

BTW, what is a strawman?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Strawman normally refers to a tentative or start of an agreement or plan.In your case they are laying the groundwork for moving in together. 

It is common amongst persons in affairs to start talking about life together so they can experience "love" that they share. She may dream of moving in with him. this happens and is not said to scare you. It is all part of the affair fog. 


You have to prepare yourself, mentally and physically, in the interim monitor her communications, it is rare that affairs have a gap for more than a few days without contact, it is a drug and they have to link up. 

Plan A her, be the best husband you can be all the while while preparing the stick part of the plan.


When you find your wife talking to the OM again what will it take for you to get past the ..



> destroy my wife's name and reputation,



You are not destroying her reputation she is, she is choosing to have an affair . Alas in an affair the word of a wayward does not count . 

Your are dealing with her evil twin not the woman you married, do remember this.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

RegionRat you are being far too gullible and nice.

Obviously you can look back at the fact that you allowed this guy into your home was a simply a boneheaded move. I don't mean to rub your nose in it on that account, but I know you've thought "oh damn that was stupid of me". The majority of the men on this board all probably started groaning knowing what was going to happen between them both about three sentences into your story. Housing a fit young man and a bored housewife together for three months unsupervised all day and X+Y=Z every time. The issue here is that you are gullible and nice.

Right now she is actively plotting to divorce you, take all the money, screw you for alimony if possible and as much child support as possible. She wants you moved out of the house and for the other man to move in. Her ideal goal is probably that you move out, he moves in and you hand over a ton of cash each month to her. She doesn't want you to know about any of this and wants you to believe that things are getting better between you both so she can keep the affair going on in secret.

The other question you need to ask is how often has she cheated on you in the past? This may not have been the first this happened. 

Have a look at Affaircare's site at AffairCare Home and start doing all the things they recommend. They have good advice.

The point is that you can't just hope for the best in all this, you need an active plan and to get into motion.

Just be aware of you're own gullible nature and being too nice to her about this.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I would not hesitate to expose him to his friends on facebook, he will be on facebook somewhere, your wife may be on his friends list. If he has 50 friends you do all 50, make his life hell he has no respect for you, your children and expecialy your wife. 

Your task is to get him out of the way permanently and prevent him from traveling to the US again. Hence the parents of the children he coached being told he is an adulterer. The employer can wait till the new year, it will help you if you expose to the parents of the children before you tell the employer, that way the parents can place the employer under pressure as well. 

This guy is a player I cannot see a fit young soccer coach wanting 4 boys in the house impeding his life, the bubble needs to be popped and the sooner you do it the better. The words used are, you must unleash a Tsunami all at once on all the guilty parties, they must not be able to blink.

Do remember you have a huge advantage, your wife does love you, she is detracted at the moment.

If your wife wants to leave, the children stay at home with you, you provide no financial support. Nothing better than a dose of reality for a wayward. 

There is a route going forward so do not lose hope. In your case the sooner you get him out of the way the quicker you can rebuild your marriage.

Keep posting as this is a journey, you will get sound advice every step of the way. research the articles on the MB site and affaircare site. 

MB site below 

Articles


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Have you separated finances yet, and cut up her credit cards yet? It does not mean that you leave her destitute. It means that you keep control of the money, so she doesn't "nest egg" herself to help her set herself and him up while you pay for it. You can order groceries on line, and give her a cash (small) allowance. When she squeals, you tell her that she will be needing to learn what it's like to be a single mom. It will allow her nice secure little fantasy to feel what reality is like. You cannot be expected to pay for her romance with a POSOM.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Well, it looks like the tsunami starts tonight. I'm going to be meeting with her family and a few of her friends (I am not going to mass email her side yet), before returning home to start the emails to his family, Facebook friends and employer. I will follow up tomorrow with calls to his employer (which is in the States).

At this point, she is executing the strawman plan whereby she is talking about all the time they'll be spending together when he returns to the States in March and what they'll be doing together (not pleasant reading for me to be sure). I need to take control of this situation and will expect the storm to break on me some time tomorrow.

I'm doing this now because I am off work for the next three days and will be able to be there for the kids if she decides to leave the house after this.

Wish me luck!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Good luck

Try get the exposure as complete as possible, on his side you may find a lot of his friends may support him, do not let this detract you someone there will say something, maybe his parents or a current girlfriend. 

Remember the delay between the facebook messaging (60 seconds minimum - best 90 seconds ) take your time, if you have time do all his contacts, it will make life rewarding for him. 


Do not forget the parents of the children, if the employer does not fire him then there is external pressure from the parents after all who wants a known adulterer staying in their house with their wife. 

Hang on there, always be prepared for the worst.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

From some of the emails I've read between them, he doesn't seem to have a lot of support over there. I think his mother has been pretty standoffish, so I'm pretty hopeful there. I'm letting my in-laws (who have my back on this even if they don't really know the full extent of the relationship) know about what I'm going to be doing, so they'll be ready for my wife's reaction and help with the kids if need be.

I am prepared for the worst with my wife, as I'm sure it will be 100x as bad as when I informed her that I wouldn't be taking days off here in January to allow her to travel to England to visit him. Yes, she actually thought that I should do that, and I was (as one previous poster suggested) was being too gullible and too nice at one point to originally agree to it. She already emailed him that she was going to file sometime before I have to go to California for business the week of Jan. 11, so I needed to make my move sooner than her.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Be strong do not get emotional keep to the facts and get home to start the exposure, it will be draining but hold in there, your marriage is worth it. 

Do not tell all what you are doing, I am not certain you should tell her parents what you plan they may let slip and she will warn him . Perhaps to say you are taking steps and leave it at that.

As for the detail, let them know it is physical and she is planning to to run away with him, be open they can only support you if they know the extent of the mess.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> She already emailed him that she was going to file sometime before I have to go to California for business the week of Jan.


You used the word *file* is that file for desperation... 

If it is make she understands you will not divorce and the children stay with you. Make their affair unpleasant and unrewarding.

PS. the facebook template I gave you has been used before to great effect.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

She said she was going to file for divorce before I left on the 11th.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Yip you oppose it hook line and sinker, she is in the fog so deep. Every day delayed is a day for you and your marriage.

Once you expose consider moving your money to a secure account, you do not want your wife helping herself to family monies to facilitate her affair. If you have to cancel all credit cards etc..


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm going to be opening a new bank account tomorrow and acquiring a new credit card as well.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> 'm going to be opening a new bank account tomorrow and acquiring a new credit card as well.


 and closing hers. Waywards sometimes act badly when exposed, if she has no cash she can't do much - like buy a ticket to fly to OM. 

After you have expose there may be strange reactions from you wife, always be calm and tell her nothing of your plans, be the great husband you are. 

Let it sink in it could be soon or take a couple of days even weeks. 

Whatever you do if it goes well for you do not smile...


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Yeah, I understand about not smiling -- my wife has a very famous Irish temper that isn't going to be made any better by this.

I try to continue to surprise her with my behavior regarding this situation. I asked her to join the boys and I to watch a football game this afternoon at 1 p.m. (although I already knew that she had a Skype conversation scheduled with him at 1:30 at one of her friend's house). I knew she was going to turn me down when I asked her, and she was convinced (again found out by reading an email) that I was going to blow my top when she told me. I could see her struggling with letting me know (I guess that is a good sign that some of the old her is still there), and when she said at 11:45 a.m. (she was working as a tutor at noon) that she wasn't coming home after work because she "wanted to drive around and think," I just nodded and said that I understood.

She looked at me quizzically and said "Really?" and I said that it was OK and we would miss her. She seemed a bit confused as she walked out the door, and in fact kissed me (a rare thing these days) and hugged me before she left.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You are running Plan A , if the exposure does not stop the affair you will be doing this for a while yet. 

She may be trying to push and bait you so she has a reason to tell people, wayward do all sort of devious planning. 

Try not to reveal you are tracking the mails, keep copies somewhere very safe. When the bubble bursts he may even try to phone her so you have many items to be aware of.

As for the friend when ready make sure all now she is complicit in helping destroy your marriage, at this moment she is not your issue but stays on the radar.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I'm planning to call her friend (who currently is in another state but gives her access at all times) in the coming days to discuss this with her as well. What is so interesting about this friend is that she is a divorced mother of two, and the reason for her divorce was that her husband (who didn't work either) was having an affair and left her.

It's astonishing to me that she is allowing this to continue, although I know my wife has painted me as a monster to folks. I will admit that I wasn't the most emotionally open husband for years and we had our share of problems recently, but I don't think anyone who knows us would consider me to be a bad guy.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

It sounds like you have a plan so keep on track and strong 

You words are pretty much what you should say to the friend..



> she is a divorced mother of two, and the reason for her divorce was that her husband (who didn't work either) was having an affair and left her.
> 
> It's astonishing to me that she is allowing this to continue, although I know my wife has painted me as a monster to folks. I will admit that I wasn't the most emotionally open husband for years and we had our share of problems recently, but I don't think anyone who knows us would consider me to be a bad guy.


You never know what your wife has said and a good calm conversation may help shutdown that source of emote access to the OM.

I am in Europe at the moment so will pick keep an eye open for any post updates. 

Keep focused on the task at hand and do not fear, you have been given no option but to do this. If your wife looses it or rages or pushes your buttons be very calm and controlled, no love busters carry on as normal and behave as the man who loves her.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

That same line of reasoning is what I'm going to say to her other friend who has been supporting her tonight. I'm popping in to speak with her and her husband about helping to save the marriage and ending this divorce.

This friend also has infidelity in her past as her father (who was a local pastor) had another family including kids on the side in a different state that this woman just recently found out about in the past decade (she is in her 40s).

Again, I'm not sure what she's been told so I want to speak with her face-to-face about it. At the beginning of this (when I was waiting for my wife to end it herself), I had asked permission to speak to her friend. Of course, she denied that by saying that she didn't have anyone who would support her and she needed her to herself.

I know now that she was protecting her secret, as I'm pretty sure this friend doesn't know the full extent of this relationship. So we'll see how that goes...


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Hey, since you're in Europe, would you mind paying a visit to a 29-year-old soccer trainer in Liverpool to have a talk...


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Lol the thought did cross my mind
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I can guarantee the last thing this soccer trainer wants is your wife and four kids to pay for. He has no concept. Did you separate finances? You never responded. This guy is a soccer vagabond. He won't be getting another job in the states to soon. Your wife can't imagine that she will be allowed to take the kids to England. Now that divorce is on the table. The first thing that came into her mind is how she will support herself. This little trip to England is about one thing, sex. And when she came back she would be looking to reconcile. Don't fall for it.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Ya absolutely do not assist her in seeing him again.

Also do not move out of the house. If there's spliting up to do, she's the one that needs to move out, not you. Once you're moved out is all but impossible to get yourself moved back in.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I haven't separated the finances yet, just monitoring them. And I'm not planning on moving out -- the reason that I'm doing this now is that I have the next three days off, my in-laws can help for the final two and then I'm reset to my normal 25 days off come Jan. 1.

So if I need to spend a LOT of time here at home to get the kids through, I will do that.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Well, the exposure to his friends, family and employer was done last night. The OM has gotten word and emailed my wife this morning to see if I'm OK and let her know what I did -- she hasn't gotten the email yet as she's still asleep. I also got a message back from one of the people I contacted to say that it was my wife who committed adultery, not him and I should leave him alone and stop worrying about revenge. I guess I need to be prepared for that. Should I be responding to these people when they reply like this?

My in-laws were more than supportive about my plans (although I didn't specifically tell them what I was planning to do) to save my marriage by getting rid of the OM. They were completely blind-sided by how deceptive and secretive she's been about her relationship with him and vowed to do all they could to help me and the kids.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

You need to separate finances. She needs to experience what her life will be like B4 she leaves. This is a chance for you to give her a little wake up call. Take advantage of it. It is all about consequence. When she confronts you on the exposure. Ask her, "what, you didn't think there would be natural consequences to you cheating?". When she freaks, and she will. And when she brings up divorce again, which she will. Tell her, "Let me know when you settle down. We are going to need to go over the new budget." Tell her that she no longer has access to your bank account or credit cards. Tell her she can order groceries on line and you will give her a small allowance for the week. You really need to do this. She could clean you out for exposing the affair.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

RegionRat said:


> I also got a message back from one of the people I contacted to say that it was my wife who committed adultery, not him and I should leave him alone and stop worrying about revenge. I guess I need to be prepared for that. Should I be responding to these people when they reply like this?


_"It's not about revenge, it's about making sure he is moved out of the picture so that my wife and I have a chance to work on things together. It's also not about embarrassing my wife, it's about making her aware of the damage she is doing and making her aware of the consequences of her actions. I simply refuse to go down in silence as my family is torn apart and my children face a future of a broken home. She has not expressed any regret or sense of wrongdoing, so I am unsure if reconciliation is possible, but I am determined to make my best effort to save our marriage.

My apologies if my prior email made you uncomfortable. I will not seek your support in this matter again.

Merry Christmas to you and your family."_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> Well, the exposure to his friends, family and employer was done last night.


How deep was this, all his facebook friends or some?

The remainder will still be coming on line so it take a while for the message to spread. There are two days of bank holidays in the UK so they should start accessing their accounts.



> The OM has gotten word and emailed my wife this morning to see if I'm OK and let her know what I did


It this all he said, any threats of concern for her, can you gauge his reaction by his mail? Many of his friends are yet to read the message so be patient?




> -- she hasn't gotten the email yet as she's still asleep


.

Do not reveal your source, simply say that you had been made aware that she and he are in an affair. As you do not want to loose track of what they are saying ie. the emails, imply other people are aware of what is happening and have been in contact with you. (this is a lie but you do not play fair when it comes to affair people.) Or do not answer




> I also got a message back from one of the people I contacted to say that it was my wife who committed adultery, not him and I should leave him alone and stop worrying about revenge


Ignore them the message is out and they know his involvement. Only stupid people blame your wife only. 



> My in-laws were more than supportive about my plans (although I didn't specifically tell them what I was planning to do) to save my marriage by getting rid of the OM.


If they are shocked with your actions tell them you are following the process recommended by experts in saving marriages i.e. Marriage Builders processes. Do not let on you are on this site. 



> They were completely blind-sided by how deceptive and secretive she's been about her relationship with him and vowed to do all they could to help me and the kids.


They need to call her, you must step back and let the damage flow. 

If she pushes you stick to the script I am working to save our marriage. If she walks out then shut all down around her, fast. 

Stay on course it will take awhile for this to filter through.

I am deducing your wife is not going to swing round and stop the affair so be prepared for the next steps.

Plan A her all the time be the best and most amazing husband you can be.

If she continues the affair the next step is to tell your children and identify the OM by name and face as the cause of the marriage break down. You may think you should not do this it is part of the MB process and is strongly recommended. 

Try get hold of the friend who provides her with access to Skype and see you can stop that access. If the friend declines include a short mail to local friends and family that XXX is assisting your wife in committing adultery. 

See how it goes today and let us know. Stay strong and on course.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Be very calm do not let her push your buttons.Your tactic is to future proof your hold on the situation in the event it goes bad. 

If she follows the norm she is going to be mad in a calm hateful way. From your post the OM sounds a little to calm, unless at the moment he does not know how far you have exposed this.

He will be watching the mail system to see if your wife responds.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> The OM has gotten word and emailed my wife this morning to see if I'm OK and let her know what I did


Why would he ask if you are OK, has your wife been gas lighting (saying derogatory things) you to him on the emails? 

Normally they ask if the affair person is OK.

Are you taking copies of the mails they are exchanging and securing them. ?


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

We've had one interaction since she found out what I had done -- no yelling and screaming yet, but there is definitely anger there. She is currently in our bedroom on the computer, locked in the room. I told her that we probably needed to talk, but she said calmly that she wasn't ready to talk to me yet.

I had hidden the coffee cups that she and the OM used when he was here, and she wasn't real happy when she found that out. I eventually gave it back to her when she asked. I figured that it was being childish to do that, and would cause more anger than it was worth.

There will be plenty of time to get rid of his stuff if/when the time is right.

I have gotten one response to one of his colleagues to verify that my message was true -- he actually wasn't on the original list but got it forwarded to him from someone else. He was the person who preceded the OM in his current position, and he said that he would be happy to speak to the OM for us.

And just as I'm typing now, I just received an email from his boss saying he would like to speak with me on Friday (he is out of the office until then), and was going to speak with the OM as soon as possible. So maybe this is really going to happen and keep him in the UK!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do you have a keylogger loaded on her computer?? I guess they are making plans as to what to say to who and what their next steps are .

Take advantage of what help is offered..



> .He was the person who preceded the OM in his current position, and he said that he would be happy to speak to the OM for us.


be open with the guy and tell him the OM came into your house as a guest and seduced your wife, while your wife has equally blame the OM continues to undermine your marriage by his ongoing affair dialog with your wife. 

There is no harm in mentioning that you will be communicating with the parents of the other children as no one will want someone in their house who know as as cheat. 





> And just as I'm typing now, I just received an email from his boss saying he would like to speak with me on Friday (he is out of the office until then), and was going to speak with the OM as soon as possible. So maybe this is really going to happen and keep him in the UK


The only message to the Boss is as a company that places people into your house there is a trust between them and you, the OM as the company representative has breached that trust and is continues to breach it by undermining your marriage and family. 

The Boss may try to defend the employee , bring up that the parents of the children will be notified of the siltation and it is in the best interest of everyone if the OM was no longer around. Be specific ----- and does not come to the US. 


Write your words down, make sure you keep to the facts and make sure they know this is part of the recommend marriage recovery processes, if the OM were to return you will be talking further action to protect your marriage.

Do not get your hopes up yet as these things can still go wrong, proof is if he is fired. 

Your next task with your wife now is to have a calm hard conversation about the affair. 


Set the boundaries , she ends the affair or she leaves the family, she does not conduct the affair on the family time or family dimes. . She is likely to choose the latter. Do not force her to leave, she has the options she must make the decision, if she leaves she abandons the family. 

Remember lock all finances down. She leaves the home not you, the children stay with you.

i think your wife is going to fight this the whole way so be prepared for a long haul. I would even suggest you get lawyered up.
*
Plan A be the Plan A expert and run to course*.

On a side note do you have access to the internet router, shut it down or take her computers access away!!! If she comes out you stick to your guns and say it is time to talk. You say what the boundaries are and let her do the rest of the talking, control your tongue do not say to much , listen listen listen. Waywards say many things so absorb what she says


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I wrote to his bosses about the trust of a family that opens their home to their employees and I belive they will take this seriously. I'm just not sure what their response will be.

Here is the logistical problem about the children -- I work an hour and 45 minutes away from home and need to be in the office by 8. The kids don't leave for school until 8:30 -- I'm not sure how I can get them to school with my schedule. I can tell you that I'm not moving out unless forced by the courts -- I've already told her that.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

RegionRat said:


> I wrote to his bosses about the trust of a family that opens their home to their employees and I belive they will take this seriously. I'm just not sure what their response will be.
> 
> Here is the logistical problem about the children -- I work an hour and 45 minutes away from home and need to be in the office by 8. The kids don't leave for school until 8:30 -- I'm not sure how I can get them to school with my schedule. I can tell you that I'm not moving out unless forced by the courts -- I've already told her that.


Hire one of the local moms in the area to take them to school.

somebody from their school.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You will have to be honest with the boss and let him know that he embarked on an affair and has not stopped. He has breached the trust your family placed in the company and is a risk to other families. As for your children it is important you do not show your wife you cannot look after the children, even if you get a nanny. At this moment the logistics are less importnant than the processes to stop the affair and recover your marriage.

As for moving out you stay put, no movement, do not talk about separation or moving out to her, if it comes up she moves, as you said she has to have a court order. Be careful she does not try to push you or file false charges against you.

How has the rest of the day gone with your wife.?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Keep strong , it feels and looks bad , this is only one of the steps in the journey. You will come out OK with your wife and family.

Stay on course, you still have a few aces up your sleeve to keep the OM at bay, her family are behind you she still has to talk to them. Be patient and keep on course. Look after your health physically as well as your mind. 

Keep to Plan A it takes a lot out of you, no lovebusters. Btw. other forum members will step into the post to provide support as and when you need it. 

In the event of issues can you secure your childrens passports elsewhere.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

The day has been a pretty quiet one as she has holed herself in a room to talk to her friends and family. She has emailed him, and we've talked a bit -- nothing dramatic thus far. She still says that she wants a divorce and that this is pushing her farther away.

The OM is starting to get worried because some of his friends have been a bit angry at him. He is petrified that his parents will find out (they haven't opened my email yet) and that he is done with his company here in the States because none of them have spoken to him yet.

I will continue with Plan A, as I am making dinner for the family and will continue to reiterate that I am doing this with the idea of getting our marriage back together. I know she sees this as an attack on her (the OM keeps calling my actions "childish"), but I keep trying to avoid the Lovebusters.

What would you say are the most difficult Lovebusters to avoid at this stage?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

The biggest love busters are chasing her, begging or pleading. They remove respect from you. She already doesn't respect you. Do the 180. Focus on you and the kids. DO NOT CHASE HER.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Excellent idea! Thanks!


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do not discuss divorce, if forced to you say she is having the affair so she leaves., them walk away. Try avoid any relationship talks if you can.

At the moment she is in the fog.So she will say many things . 

We are holding thumbs that the OM get his ass kicked and loses his job, you must have the ethical, trust, parents will be told script ready for the Boss on Friday.

Focus on you and your kids, the 180 works well as long as you *do not *compromise Plan A

the 180 below:-



> What is 180 and how does it work?
> 
> A: 180 is a list of behaviours from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviours as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)
> 
> ...



i have highlighted some of the lovebusters in the 180 , the other examples help keep you on a sound footing .

I liked the OM's "childish" comment, is that why he is worried.!!!!


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

RegionRat said:


> The day has been a pretty quiet one as she has holed herself in a room to talk to her friends and family. She has emailed him, and we've talked a bit -- nothing dramatic thus far. She still says that she wants a divorce and that this is pushing her farther away.


She's got nowhere to really go does she.

The OM is soon to be unemployed and lives in a different country. She won't be able to take the kids with her to England and I doubt she would go without them. She's going to be a pariah among friends and family. Seems like her best option is fixing things with you.

Funny how she frames it as you pushing her away though isn't it... she was already saying she was leaving / divorcing you for him anyway. So how can this be making it worse for you. 

She's just pissed that you didn't turn turtle and leave the house in tears. Which means as awful as your day has been, you're making progress.

At some point she needs to admit fault or you shouldn't even take her back anyway. 

Hang in there. You're doing great.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Do you want to be her fall back, she stays in the marriage because she has nowhere to go not out of love for you, why do you want that. I am so glade that the OM is feeling the consequences of his actions, he won't be able to find employment in that field anymore. How long do you think it will take her to find another OM to rescue her. 

I don't agree with being so nice to a person who feels they are entitled to disrespect you in your own home. Why should be able to shut herself in a room to communicate with another man right in your face. Throw her out of your house she is a horrible person and she needs to learn respect why should she be able to shut her self up in your house let her go somewhere else to talk to him not in your face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

:iagree::iagree:


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Start a journal so you can keep track of what is happening. 

Have your thoughts ready to ensure you are a couple of steps ahead of her. 

Set a finite amount of time for a Plan A and fix a date that it ends this is normally when you are exhausted and your spouse continues to be a cake eater, you want her to be a cake eater she must see the new you, she may not want to recognize this but your actions will be noted, the next step after Plan A is a Plan B details will be shared in the interim-----

-----be ready for the event that she does file, on the day you suspect she files or completes the paper work you ask her to sit with you and the children , do not give her a heads up that you are going to explain to the that she is leaving due to her affair, you identify the OM by name and face. 

Many baulk at this, stay firm and let them know the truth. 

This is part of the MB processes extracts below:- 



> Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children
> 
> Even if you are divorcing tell your children the truth. Don't forewarn your wife, have the script written down, at the last moment say to your wife you are sitting down together and tell your kids.
> 
> ...



Check your state laws regarding divorce periods, many can take up to a year and that is what you want. The longer the better, oppose it in every way. Are you in a fault or no fault state, to subpoena people to court will cause your wife concern, I am thinking of her friends who facilitated this affair.


However if she shows remorse and is willing to work on the marriage then an extract from affaircare. 




> Here's the minimum that we usually recommend:
> 
> 1) Write a No Contact Letter to the Other Person (OP). The no contact letter is written by the DS to the OP and indicates that they can NEVER, EVER contact each other again in any way...including seeing each other. Here are some Sample No Contact Letters. If your DS works with the OP, he/she may need to quit their job or ask for a transfer, or may need to ask their employer for a shift that does not coincide with the OP. Most/many Disloyals balk at this or say "Are you crazy? I can't quit my job now!" but marriages can survive periods of unemployment or under-employment; they CAN NOT survive an active affair!!
> 
> ...


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you want to be her fall back, she stays in the marriage because she has nowhere to go not out of love for you, why do you want that.


Because right now she is in the fog of the affair. Once the fog lifts and she sees reality, she may very well be extremely grateful to her husband and love can return.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Today has been a bit different for my wife. She was willing to talk -- she went out with her friends (not the one who was facilitating the contact with the OM) last night and then stopped by her parents. I guess her dad absolutely ripped her up one side and down the other about her behavior.

She still is in the mode of blaming me of taking away the "real" her by destroying the affair. There has been a lot of telling me what is wrong with me -- but I've been a bit of a punching bag because I'm not lashing back at her or even disagreeing. But she did discuss communicating again for the sake of the kids -- neither of us discussed working on the marriage yet or divorce. She did mention that her parents were willing to work as mediators between us for right now to set guidelines of behavior for both of us to the other -- she acknowledged that hers was going to be non-contact with the OM. At what point do I ask for the non-contact letter? She has already disabled her Facebook account (mostly because some of the people I messaged went through her account).

I told her that right now I'm moving on with my life for the sake of me and the kids. She will decide if she wants to continue to work on the marriage, but I will proceed as if it is over. But I also told her that I would treat her with respect and continue to do as I always did before as long as there is no other man in her life.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> she acknowledged that hers was going to be non-contact with the OM. At what point do I ask for the non-contact letter? She has already disabled her Facebook account (mostly because some of the people I messaged went through her account


The no contact letter must be done now , if you have to involve her parents do so. An email format and a hand written one that she signs, I have seen some claim they were forced to send the nc letter so a hand written one dispels that theory . If you do not have his address then scan it into PDF format and send it as an attachment 

Run the Plan A be charming let her see the man she loves and get that OM fired from his job in case they have a plan to go underground. He must not come to the US again 

A lot of what you wrote and her words is fog babble and is standard. 

Hang in, there will be a few ups and downs but as time passes it will get better. 

What you must do is turn the marriage round so she can find the opening to ask to stay in the marriage.

Keep an eye open on the bank accounts and if she files, they sometimes do this in the background such is the addiction 

Is she still in contact with her email account as that should be closed down as well and if you have not done so already load a keylogger on the laptop she uses 

So far so good and to script.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Well done. You are lucky that her parents are acting as they are. That's unusual and a huge advantage.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Nothing major to report except that it appears that my wife's counselor nixed the idea of using her parents as mediators (I got this information from her dad, not my wife). Supposedly, the counselor is looking into setting up either a third person to work with us or a joint effort between our two counselors (who work for the same organization).

My wife is telling her parents that I did the exposure to his side in direct opposition to my counselor's wishes. That's not exactly true as I did NOT tell him about my plans -- he is on vacation this week and we don't have another meeting scheduled until next week.

What I will tell my wife, her counselor, my counselor or anyone else is that I am a man who makes his own decisions. I KNOW in my heart that I did this as a last-ditch effort to save my marriage -- I told her parents before I did it that I had a 10-25% chance of saving the marriage if I did it, but a 0% chance if I didn't. Even if my counselor would have suggested that I not do this, I ultimately have to look at myself in the mirror on a daily basis.

My wife has said that other than the boys, she has no reason to live right now, that she is at the bottom and doesn't know if she'll ever be able to become "human" again. I have not said anything when given this information, such as that I could provide her what she found in the OM if just given the chance. 

The interesting thing about the situation is that when I first suspected something was going on, I underwent an epiphany of how I had been emotionally unavailable for my wife for years. I told her that I would be willing to change, visit a counselor and start over if she would be willing to go along as well. This was before there was any physical affair, but I'm pretty sure that the emotional affair was taking root at that time. She decided that it was a better option to continue on with the EA, and strung me along, telling me that she would give me a chance. It never materialized. Maybe that time will be coming in the future.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You have to be tough on the councilors, tell them both you are following the Marriage Builders programme and unless they are there to save the marriage you will select new pro marriage counselors. 

If they need guidance direct them to the MB or affaircare sites. 

You are fighting for your marriage so do not mince your words with them

Your wife is going through withdrawal, do not let her manipulate the counselors or you, stay on course, the counselors and you must push for permanent no contact and only once the fog has cleared can you work on your marriage 

Please still continue to get the OM out of the picture, you have no idea what they planned in the background so tomorrow when you speak to the boss have your script ready, the OM must not come near your wife again. 

I am tempted that you have your wife and you call the MB counselor or affaircare for a way forward as any counselor worth their salt will see what your wife is trying to do, 


No counseling would work while she was in the affair and the same is true today. Every time she has contact she is reminded of her foggy days.

Stay strong and on course. No one is perfect including your wife, she may yet have to realize that. 

Do you know if there has been further contact with the OM?


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

There was one brief text message (not sure of the content) yesterday morning, but nothing else that I can tell. Not sure about today yet, as I'm at work again (I was home since Christmas Eve).


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Unfortunately I suspect they will maintain contact and therein lays the problem. I doubt your wife will hold true to the no contact. 

You cannot force her to stop what you can do is refuse to a discuss or agree any changes, counseling or otherwise unless she evidences no contact over a long of time 4 to 6 months or even more. That same message goes to the councilors and her parents. It is during this time you have to change the marriage dynamics. 

In the interim carry on with the plan to get the OM out of the picture. He has to have a more severe consequence and if the employer can remove him all the better.

Carry on monitoring for a couple of days, if it continues the next part of the plan is to rock his boat further, he will stop when there is enough pressure on his side to stop, like his parents or others telling his to stop contacting a married woman.

Always assume the worst so there are no surprises down the line.

Your marriage can recover, Plan A your wife , it is hard but there is no other way forward. The affair has to die by their own accord with a little bit of prodding on your side.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

My next step is to call his employer back tomorrow -- they had asked me to do this. The last I had seen the employer had NOT contacted the OM back.

And BTW, my wife continues to have small contact with the OM. I will make the call tomorrow, see where the chips fall and go from there.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Depending how the conversation goes with the employer you may have to let them know that the parents of the children he coaches may be made aware of the issue and that the company has not taken action to ensure a repeat of this episode with other wives does not occur.

Be careful not to threaten the employer, if they have any ethics or business interests the boss will employ another coach, I wish you luck with him.

I did say that you cannot force NC however you can prepare for a second mail shot and speak to her parents to see if they can apply their pressure, the affair has to die willingly from their side but it does not mean you have to facilitate it. 

See how tomorrow goes with the employer, I suspect that you will have to do one more mail shot then step back and let the noise on his side kill it. Key on the next one is to get his parents involved as well as the previouse coach you mentioned. Update us tomorrow.

Stay on course and be strong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

He is absolutely PETRIFIED that his parents are going to find out -- they went on vacation the day after I sent the messages so I presume they haven't seen it yet (they aren't the most tech savvy folks out there, from what he said).

What I find interesting is that the OM hadn't told ANYONE about his "true love," and it was getting to my wife a bit that he was so secretive. Also, one of the women I contacted was someone who also worked locally for the same company and was friendly with the OM -- to the point that they travelled for 3 weeks in California before he returned to take an EA to a PA with my wife. She was stunned by the news (I assumed she knew), and was cold to both my wife and the OM when they reached out to her -- she was very concerned about me and the boys, though. I'm thinking that she had feelings for him and may have even had a fling in CA -- a point my wife has been desperately trying to verify.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

So his parents are a good target. I think we need to make an effort to get hold of them. Give me 10 min I will PM you.

If you think the other woman can help talk to her directly , leave no stone unturned, every effort must be made to bust this affair so you can focus on the recovery as that part is a lot more taxing than breaking the affair
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Wow, that's horrible. I'd cut my losses if I were you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

RegionRat said:


> What I find interesting is that the OM hadn't told ANYONE about his "true love," and it was getting to my wife a bit that he was so secretive.


She's just a fling to him most likely. Perhaps that can be bought up.

I'm glad to see that you willing to admit there were things you could have been doing better in the marriage though. That's an excellent step and awareness in growing back together again.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Well, I talked to the OM's boss this morning and he was very supportive of my efforts, although he stopped short of saying he was going to outright fire him (although technically the OM doesn't have a contract -- he works on seasonal contracts that get renewed on a semiannual basis). The boss asked for my take on what happened and I ran down the discovery and aftermath -- he seemed a bit upset, but still asked me for proof.

He said that he had called the OM after he received my email on Sunday, and of course, the OM completely lied and said there wasn't an affair -- only that he was a friend and had lent a shoulder to cry on when my wife came for solace regarding her terrible marriage. He told the OM that IF he did return to the U.S., it wouldn't be in any geographical proximity to my family. He also ordered him to stop all contact with my wife -- I told the boss that the OM had completely ignored that order and continued to do so.

The boss asked if I had any proof of the affair, I asked what kind of proof he was asking for. He asked if there was an email that showed that there was a relationship of a sexual and continuing nature. I explained that I was hesitant to send anything of that sort along to him, citing the recent Michigan case where the husband is charged with a felony for reading his wife's email.

I asked him what I could possibly gain from making these accusations other than getting the OM to leave my family. And then I asked him what gains the OM could have to lie about it -- continued employment, access to my wife, the relationship and more sex. He seemed to see my point and indicated that he was leaning to ridding the organization of this PR nightmare. He asked me if I would be willing to talk to the VP of personnel for the company on Monday, and I agreed that I would be happy to discuss the situation with him.

I'm interested in finding out what is going to happen, but I have a good feeling about the company doing the right thing and preventing him from coming back to the country.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

This is good news and the OM is lying.

What you can offer is to meet with the VP and boss and say I can show you the mails and records of the text messages but they may not take copies of any sort . It will help the Boss firm up his opinion. This is a procedural thing once you make that offer they know they do not have a leg to stand on. It will also prove to the company that the OM is dishonest. 


I have requested this a few times for my own company, we looked the mail headers scanned the content and the decision was made, never once in favor of the OW or OM. 

Evidence if you can the continued contact between the two since you exposed. 

So far so good

How is your wife behaving?


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

We haven't spent much time together since I went back to work -- she's very short in conversation when we talk.

I have been tracking cell phone/texting records and have evidence of continued contact initiated by the OM.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You will need to consider a second mail shot to rattle him some more. This will not die until he is very uncomfortable. Even though his parents are on holiday you can mail them a second time summarizing that he was asked by his employer to not contact your wife again and he continues to do so. 

What he will do is lie to his parents as well however if you say you have hard evidence and they can call you this does cause a problem for him.

The pressure will build on him and sooner or later he will wilt. Have you spoken to your in laws about the continued contact ? Do you think it will be of any help? We are not as close as you to understand if they will be of assistance.

Another thing is bar his calls, do not tell any one just do it.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Keep it up.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

My wife just returned home with the boys from a movie and a grocery trip. While the boys came in the house, my wife sat in the van with her head against the steering wheel. When I asked if she was OK, she said "I don't want to look at you," at which time I closed the door and walked in the house.

I'm not sure if his work spoke to the OM today or not, but she seems exceedingly angry and withdrawn today. So, I'm going to take the boys to a New Year's Eve party that she was going to take them to -- she is going to curl up in bed and be depressed.

I'm going to let the work with the employer stand for a few days -- that is his ONLY way to get back into the U.S. for him as they were his sponsor and he doesn't have other options at this point.

I did have a question for the forum -- what is the difference between Plan B and the 180?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The 180 if used correctly can be used to compliment Plan A as long as there are no love busters. Plan B is using an intermediary to communicate with your wife and going dark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

By going dark, what does that mean? Since we're currently living in the same home, what changes would need to be made?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Normally by the time you get to plan b your wife has moved out, if she stays in the house you are in plan A . Plan A has a no contact with OM policy so take your time you may still have to remind her of that boundary. Be patient the longer she stays with you she sees you at your best. That is why I want the OM out of the picture or to be proven to be a liar, in her eyes. You are dealing with an addict and the withdrawal has to be complete for her to think clearly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Catherine602 said:


> Do you want to be her fall back, she stays in the marriage because she has nowhere to go not out of love for you, why do you want that. I am so glade that the OM is feeling the consequences of his actions, he won't be able to find employment in that field anymore. How long do you think it will take her to find another OM to rescue her.
> 
> I don't agree with being so nice to a person who feels they are entitled to disrespect you in your own home. Why should be able to shut herself in a room to communicate with another man right in your face. Throw her out of your house she is a horrible person and she needs to learn respect why should she be able to shut her self up in your house let her go somewhere else to talk to him not in your face.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I just got off the phone with the corporate VP for personnel w/the OM's company. With a 28-year marriage and 4 kids himself, he was inclined to hear my story and believe what I had to say. He did mention that in 20 years with the company, he had run across 2 or 3 other situations like this.

He said that when he was given my email he immediately ordered the OM to cease all communications with my wife -- which he has not done. When told this, the VP was none too happy and said that he would be talking to the OM now to get his take (he hadn't spoken to him yet, but heard from the OM's immediate supervisor that the OM denied anything had happened). He acknowledged that he believed I had no motive other than trying to save my marriage, while at the same time the OM has EVERY reason to lie.

I am hopeful that this avenue to the U.S. is going to be taken away fairly quickly. However, the long road is still ahead with my wife, who has been trying to goad me into a fight over the last couple of days. Yesterday after returning from tutoring at a local Dunkin' Donuts, she walked in the house, threw her cell phone on the counter and challenged me to check it to see if she was lying about where she had been. She yelled that she didn't go to her friend's house (the one who has allowed her to Skype in the past) and why don't I check up on that, too. All of this was unprovoked, and I turned and walked away.

I have one problem with Plan A. Before any of this happened, I was a completely unemotional person. Needless to say that changed when I was going through the discovery period and I noticed some things about myself that I didn't like -- such as being an emotionally detached automaton. But now, I feel like I have to avoid ALL emotional outbursts, thus proving to her that I am the same guy I was all along -- a guy that she didn't like very much over the past few years.

How am I supposed to get her to be willing to reconcile if she is convinced that I am incapable of changing?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> She yelled that she didn't go to her friend's house (the one who has allowed her to Skype in the past) and why don't I check up on that, too


Before I proceed have you closed this avenue down, did have that conversation with the friend or her husband. This friend has no place facilitating the affair and she and her husband have to know this. 



> But now, I feel like I have to avoid ALL emotional outbursts, thus proving to her that I am the same guy I was all along -- a guy that she didn't like very much over the past few years


Plan A does not mean you do not show emotion, it means you do what you are doing now and not be goaded, no negative emotions or anger, you smile, you laugh, you hug her if she allow you to. You kiss her good bye in the morning, when you come home and when you go to bed, even if it is a peck on the lips or the forehead or cheek, you start. You hug your children in her presence you kiss them on the forehead, you go to their rooms and hug them good night. That is the start of emotion and it shows you care. 


As a schoolteacher I see children react so differently when the dad gives the son or daughter a hug before they leave the car. You are doing the same to your wife, she may not want you to hug her and initial it may annoy her take your time, look for the opportunity and if you get it say something like "I love you so much" and move on. She may react angrily , in her state of fog the truth hurts. 



> How am I supposed to get her to be willing to reconcile if she is convinced that I am incapable of changing?


Plan A will show you can change, it takes time and is a step by step processes. You have to have patience.



Have you read the "his needs , her needs" from Harley, if not try it it is a very good book to get your basics right. The link is below , leave the book out so she can see it. 

Amazon.com: His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-Proof Marriage (9780800744236): Willard F. Jr. Harley: Books


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

I've read the "His Needs, Her Needs" book, but I'm struggling to find openings to put the lessons in practice now. Since last Monday when the realization of what I had done was setting in, she has refused to carry on any sort of meaningful conversation with me.

She vented and fumed on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, but since then she has only answered "Yes" or "No" when I talk to her or try to criticize what I'm asking. She is still very angry with me, and I don't want to push her right now. So I walk away from the confrontations.

I guess when I wrote that I wasn't showing emotions, I meant in relation to my wife. My mother-in-law and brother-in-law both mentioned that since I've been able to move on (eating, having a good time with the kids, sleeping) since I exposed the affair, my wife feels like I'm gloating and happy with myself. I certainly don't want to give that impression, as I'm still torn up waiting for the other shoe to drop (divorce).

I still hug the kids and have a good time with them, but any time I'm in the room with her, she gets up and leaves. Any suggestions on what to do next?


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Drop a PM to affaircare, perhaps she can offer better advice.

It may be early days so your wife is still in the anger I have been caught out phase and she can't stand the sight of you. This has happened to others before and it took some weeks to fade away, the difference is their OM's were no longer in contact.

Plan A as best as you can, this is a tough phase and will sap your strength.



> as I'm still torn up waiting for the other shoe to drop (divorce).


If she does this you fight it all the way and pack her bags , tell her she is leaving and the children stay ....Bye..


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Thanks -- I also have my first meeting with my counselor in two weeks tomorrow night. I have a few things to speak with him about


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I have one problem with Plan A. Before any of this happened, I was a completely unemotional person. Needless to say that changed when I was going through the discovery period and I noticed some things about myself that I didn't like -- such as being an emotionally detached automaton. But now, I feel like I have to avoid ALL emotional outbursts, thus proving to her that I am the same guy I was all along -- a guy that she didn't like very much over the past few years.


Perhaps I can clarify this a bit: you are equating 'emotional outbursts' with expressing emotions. If you are referring to the Marriage Builder (His Needs/Her Needs) terms, then the issue is that in that usage, an emotional 'outburst' is a negative emotional explosion: usually an explosion of anger. The term 'outburst' infers that the expression of emotion is hurtful. 

On the other hand, presenting yourself as joyless, flat, monotone and 'unfeeling' can come across to a spouse as uncaring and dis-involved. What is really happening is that you come across to your spouse as not part of their life. After a while this can become so disenchanting to them that they begin to look for this connection elsewhere.

The real problem is that your emotions are your own, hers are hers, and they are never shared. There may be times when both of you experience an emotion simultaneously - but you are not sharing the emotion! 

The solution is to become aware of your partner's emotions, and to learn to accurately determine both the emotion and it's cause. This can take some time. Also note that while it is extremely important to know the cause of the emotion, it is not wise to dig to find the cause, at least until the marriage is stronger. Instead, it is wisest to acknowledge the emotion and be ready to talk about it. 

Also, if you experience an emotion, it can be useful to relate it to your spouse.

Here's a key issue, however. _Not all persons find the same relevance with emotions_. Some people find more value in rational discussion. This is a major personality difference - thinkers and feelers. If your wife is a 'feeler' type of person, and you are a 'thinker' type, there will by nature be problems in communication. 

Note: these problems are not insurmountable - they can be overcome - ways of communication can be learned for both partners. 

Are you aware of your particular personality type? Here is a website quiz that can identify the way you interact with the world. And here is a site bearing descriptions of the results you find. 

Learning about this can be crucial to how your relationship moves from here on out.



> How am I supposed to get her to be willing to reconcile if she is convinced that I am incapable of changing?


You can't get her to be willing to reconcile! That is a choice she makes. The best you can do is to actually change. And the MBTI quiz that I posted above will show you some real, practical and workable ways you can change. Learning about the love busters/extinguishers and emotional needs/love kindlers is also a huge step in bringing about positive change.

It may take some time, but she will notice. There is no easy, fast track to solving marital problems!


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

My wife and I finally spoke more than a few words to each other last night. She finally saw a doctor about her massive weight loss over the past 2 months (she's lost almost 20% of her body weight), and I was asking her how the appointment went.

After that was over, she began telling me how sad she has been (since I exposed the affair to the OM's side and her family). I didn't express remorse for anything that I did, which bothers her. She also asked me what part of the marriage was I trying to save. I told her that I wasn't trying to save anything about our "old" marriage, but was trying to salvage the chance to create a better one through hard work and both of us committing to the marriage. I told her that I was committed and was waiting to see if she was willing to commit as well. She had no answer at that time.

I haven't heard back from the OM's employer, but I did see that the OM had a flurry of texts to my wife (no, she still hasn't given him the no-contact letter yet) a couple of hours after I spoke to the VP. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm still confident that the company will do the right thing.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do you know when his parents return from vacation?

You cannot stop them texting each other what you can do is make it so unrewarding that it has to die a natural death due to the pain.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

The only reason that I'm monitoring the texts now is because his bosses wanted to know if he was still trying to contact my wife. Both of the bosses I spoke with say that they ordered the OM to cease all communications with her -- they want to know if he is still trying.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Do you have to call them back at some stage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

They are going to give me a follow up email in the next couple of days -- if I don't hear from them by Friday, I'm going to call them back.

As far as his parents are concerned, I think they'll be back in the next week.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Even if the employer fires him I suggest you prepare a second mail that targets his parents only , forward the original mail to them again and give them your contact details to call. He may have gained access to their mail account and deleted your mail , your intent is for them to know the truth that their son is still in an affair with your wife. 

Send the mail a day after they return .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Dec 30, 2010)

maybe I'm the odd one out here but I'm not sure exposing and contacting his parents is the right thing. For one he is 29 years old and single so what do you really think his parents are going to do here? Also if you truly want to work things out with your wife then really it should be between you guys. Family members and friends will all have opinions and advice that may pull you both in all different directions. My hubby and I have been in a similar situation and if there is resentment there or trouble before the EA then by doing all of this it may cause more. However if you aren't not interested in reconciliation and healing the marriage or neither is she then I guess exposing is a good way to go.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Adrenaline, thank you for your response. A couple of points that might be instructive regarding this situation. The 29-year-old guy still lives at home and is VERY concerned that his parents not know about this. And the affair was a physical one with a HUGE emotional attachment -- my wife would not be able to even think about reconciliation if he was possibly in the picture. Now that he might be gone, she has backed off her threats of divorce (for now) and has begun to think about her kids and her health now -- two areas that she wasn't paying any attention to while she was obsessed with him.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

The exposure has already been done, the parents may not have read their mails as yet , if "son" has accessed their mail then the parents must be told, exposure is the single most effective tool on the arsenal. If the parents know we move on. Key here is to get the OM out of the picture
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AdrenalineJunkie (Dec 30, 2010)

oh thanks for the clarification. I guess it just depends on your wife and how she feels now. I know having a relationship with my husband's family can be hard enough at times so if they knew all our problems and business I would probably not want to be around them at all. I was ignored for 3 years pretty much and tried to talk to my husband before I even thought about anyone else. I asked him to go to counseling and everything and he refused. He even at one point (in anger) told me to find someone else if I didn't like it. Well I developed an EMOTIONAL affair with a co-worker and told him about it because I just can't live with the lies it eats me up. He decided then he wanted to save our marriage and was willing to try anything. We agreed together to keep our issues to ourself so that we had time to heal and try without everyone else telling us what to do or how to do it. I think that made it easier for me to try to get feelings back for him because I already had so much resentment built up anyway. He knew if I was angry then I was more likely to leave and be on my own than to be unhappy. Only you know your wife well enough to know what makes her tick and what she responds to though. good luck with everything. I hope it all works out for you.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

My wife probably can commiserate with you on your experiences. She was very lonely, as I was an emotional hermit for too long. While she never suggested we go to counseling, she did have a couple of letters that I see now as cries for help but that I ignored at the time. And I've heard the same statements about leaving rather than being unhappy.

The only difference is that I finally did wake up to what I was doing to my wife BEFORE she decided to have any physical contact with the OM. When I approached her to try and work it out, she basically turned her back on me and continued down this path because HE WAS IN OUR HOUSE. Now that he is back in England, my main goal now is to make sure that he doesn't return.

I know that it doesn't guarantee any reconciliation, and in fact has pushed my wife farther away. But I can tell you that she finally has started to pay attention to things in the past week that she had ignored for over 8 weeks because of her obsession with him. If for nothing else, my actions have been a success. But I don't know if we'll ever be able to work on the marriage, as she is too angry at this time to commit to it.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

It's all a process. Doesn't hurt to frame it as a joint wake up call either.


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

Last night we continued to talk, which is a good thing. There is still a pretty wide gap between us -- demonstrated by the fact that she stood in the doorway while I was in our bed. She wouldn't come in the room when I asked her to come in.

We were able to carry on a calm conversation for about 40 minutes, discussing our feelings about what has happened. She acknowledges that she will have to end her relationship with the OM, and is willing to meet with an outside counselor to help us learn how to communicate with one another. But she refuses to accept it as marriage counseling and says she's not willing to work on the marriage -- yet.

Her complaints revolve around feeling like she has no privacy inside the home -- she is convinced that I've been reading her emails (I had been until last week) and tapping her cell/home phone conversations (unbelievable!). She says she feels like she's in jail and is watched all the time "in (her) own home." While I told her that I understand that she felt that way, I also said that she shouldn't have anything to hide if she was breaking it off with him. She didn't understand that thinking, so we agreed to disagree about that.

She also said that I hadn't forgiven her for her actions. I responded by saying that I did forgive her or I wouldn't still be trying to save the marriage. I expressed the pain that she caused me by her actions, and she surprised me by saying that she regretted doing what she did with the OM. However, she fell back into her old line of comparing her actions to "15 years of misery (in the marriage)," and how I couldn't handle the amount of pain that she went through.

I love the fact that we're beginning to speak again, as I see it as the first step to a possible reconciliation. But I'm having a REAL hard time believing her when she says that she's breaking it off with him, when I still see that they text message and have short cell conversations. That will probably be our next topic of conversation tonight. She did express frustration that her family calls me to see if she is still contacting the OM, and can't understand why they don't ask her. When I responded that they don't trust her, she got upset and ended the conversation.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

The key thing to me in your conversation with your wife is her problem with being watched (checking email, texts, etc.). 

She had an affair! Why would she not allow you to see all she is doing in order to rebuild your trust? 

My guess, is because the affair is continuing. Don't stop checking up on her. 

I have been following this thread. I am so hoping that she gives up on the OM and begins to work on your marriage.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

It will have it's up and downs , stay on course and be strong every day takes you closer to her understanding what she has done. While she is in contact with the OM that fog holds her mind closed to the marriage. This is going to be tough on you keep a clear mind and carry on with Plan A . You must however still close the loop with the parents, your wife may be mad at you but untill he is out of the picture she is still in the affair. So far she is working to script.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

There are two issues here. (1) She has to dump the OM to work on the marriage. (2) What the "new" marriage you have together will be.

If you have ignored her for 15 years or whatever, then you do need to apologize for that and be clear that you are willing to change as well.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

AdrenalineJunkie said:


> maybe I'm the odd one out here but I'm not sure exposing and contacting his parents is the right thing. For one he is 29 years old and single so what do you really think his parents are going to do here? Also if you truly want to work things out with your wife then really it should be between you guys. Family members and friends will all have opinions and advice that may pull you both in all different directions. My hubby and I have been in a similar situation and if there is resentment there or trouble before the EA then by doing all of this it may cause more. However if you aren't not interested in reconciliation and healing the marriage or neither is she then I guess exposing is a good way to go.


I'm with you. I mean, I get the concept, I really do. I don't mean to oversimplify it, but it really does seem to be a well thought out way of "telling his mommy." I absolutely agree airing out the affair to loved ones will take away the secrecy of it and add some negativity to their situation so that it's not seen through rose colored glasses, but like you said, the older you get the lesser the impact your family knowing about your affair will have. It'd be one thing if he was screwing around on his wife, and abandoning his kids, but as a single guy it doesn't mean as much.

In times of crisis, outside people matter less and you all need to figure things out for yourselves. Nobody else can fight those battles for you.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

RegionRat said:


> Last night we continued to talk, which is a good thing. There is still a pretty wide gap between us -- demonstrated by the fact that she stood in the doorway while I was in our bed. She wouldn't come in the room when I asked her to come in.
> 
> We were able to carry on a calm conversation for about 40 minutes, discussing our feelings about what has happened. She acknowledges that she will have to end her relationship with the OM, and is willing to meet with an outside counselor to help us learn how to communicate with one another. But she refuses to accept it as marriage counseling and says she's not willing to work on the marriage -- yet.
> 
> ...


Absolutely don't let up on the transparency issue. I'm not saying you have to bug rooms in the house or tap her phone, but she should be open with you about letting you check her messages from time to time. Is this kind of monitoring normal in a relationship? No. But that's what happens when trust is broken, it must be rebuilt. She has to be on board to help rebuild it.

With her on board with that, you can then begin to work on the areas of your relationship that have been damaged. Learn what you do wrong and what you do well. Fix the wrongs and strengthen the positives. Always communicate. This can only be done once the trust issue is taken care of though, so it's imperative that she's on board. If she's not helping rebuild trust, you'll only be half hearted about your efforts to fix things, which does no one any good.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Blue Moon said:


> I'm with you. I mean, I get the concept, I really do. I don't mean to oversimplify it, but it really does seem to be a well thought out way of "telling his mommy." I absolutely agree airing out the affair to loved ones will take away the secrecy of it and add some negativity to their situation so that it's not seen through rose colored glasses, but like you said, the older you get the lesser the impact your family knowing about your affair will have. It'd be one thing if he was screwing around on his wife, and abandoning his kids, but as a single guy it doesn't mean as much.
> 
> In times of crisis, outside people matter less and you all need to figure things out for yourselves. Nobody else can fight those battles for you.


Yeah but it's a single guy that lives AT HOME.

Maybe his parents don't want Mrs. Regionrat moving in with them. Maybe he has a girlfriend in England and they parents will spill the affair news to her. Maybe he's already married. Maybe he already has kids in England too.

Personally I would be highly surprised he told Mrs. Regionrat anything but half bull**** to simply get into her pants. The parents might have a better persecptive. Imagine the effect if the parents wrote back an email saying, _"we're so sorry to hear of the trouble you've had, this is the third time this has happened on one of his overseas trips"._


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RegionRat said:


> I haven't heard back from the OM's employer, but I did see that the OM had a flurry of texts to my wife *(no, she still hasn't given him the no-contact letter yet)* a couple of hours after I spoke to the VP. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm still confident that the company will do the right thing.


NOTE TO SELF, RegionRat. She would write the No Contact Letter, and give the letter to you. This is to ensure that it is not "one final love letter" that says how evil you are for making them break up and how she will always love him but Fate won't allow them to be together... (or equal drivel). Then YOU mail the No Contact Letter to his home address with a small note on it from you that you intend to do what has to be done to protect your marriage and family. 

So *she* doesn't send it. She writes it and gives it to you. Okay?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

RR, I am sorry, but there is no contrition, no humility, and only blame shifting. You may well have emotionally distant, that is something that can be worked on in counseling. But her doing some guy in your home is so far beyond the pail. Her attitude does not convey any sorrow for hurting you or the kids. Her problem is, she has not experienced the consequences of what she has done. She needs an "It's a wonderful life" moment. Where she can actually envision losing her life (home) with you and your family. Until that happens, you are wasting your time and actually could be hurting recovery. You need to 180, separate finances. And be banished from your bedroom until she decides if she wants to in the marriage. You are not the standby, 2nd choice, the fallback, her security blanket. The more you try to restore things without her actually accepting blame and owning her own ****, the less respect she will have for you. JMHO


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RegionRat said:


> We were able to carry on a calm conversation for about 40 minutes, discussing our feelings about what has happened. She acknowledges that she will have to end her relationship with the OM, and is willing to meet with an outside counselor to help us learn how to communicate with one another. But she refuses to accept it as marriage counseling and says she's not willing to work on the marriage -- yet.


This is really positive and a good step forward. I would suggest that you be pro-active and look for a counselor who is pro-marriage (you take the initiative and interview them) and not to toot my own horn, but you may want to consider what I do for a living: marriage coach. I don't delve into your past to deal with abuse issues or diagnoses mental illnesses--a coach helps you identify where you are as a couple now, helps you establish where you want to be, sets a measurable plan for how to get there, then holds you accountable for doing the plan. Usually a counselor can be longer and more "in depth" (maybe a year or so) and a coach is shorter but more practical (ten meetings and done). 

Presenting it like that MAY be an option that she could accept and still save some face (keep her dignity).



> Her complaints revolve around feeling like she has no privacy inside the home -- she is convinced that I've been reading her emails (I had been until last week) and tapping her cell/home phone conversations (unbelievable!). She says she feels like she's in jail and is watched all the time "in (her) own home." While I told her that I understand that she felt that way, I also said that she shouldn't have anything to hide if she was breaking it off with him. She didn't understand that thinking, so we agreed to disagree about that.


Ah! Here's some helpful stuff: There is a difference between “privacy” and “secrecy.” In a marriage, the whole POINT is to be intimate with another person (not just sex, but also emotionally intimate...close), and to be truly intimate there has to be transparency. That means being "see through" enough to let your spouse see the True You, warts and all. Thus, *Privacy*=closing the bathroom door when you dress or go to the bathroom; aka modesty or freedom from an unauthorized intrusion. *Secrecy*=not revealing the True You and purposely hiding from your spouse. *There is no room for secrecy in a marriage!* Every individual does have does have the reasonable expectation of privacy (as defined above) but that does not give a spouse the right to secrecy! So this is about the SECRECY of an affair, not the privacy of an individual.

Next, it is not your job to police her (aka, snoop through her email, phone, chatlogs, etc. looking for contact). If you do that, you actually ARE being controlling and trying to force her. Just to be clear, it would be a very BAD choice, but she's a fully grown adult who's capable of making choices and if she wants to continue the affair, that is her choice. She would then also be personally responsible for the consequences of what she has chosen! And you can not "stop": her or "make" her. 

But regarding the transparency--I absolutely affirm that you stand by that one as non-negotiable. Here's how you do it though: it is HER JOB to police herself and show you that she is not in contact. You tell her right up front that what she did in the affair was SECRECY not privacy, and your boundary is that you won't be with a spouse who hides themselves from you. If she wants to save the marriage, of her own accord--even if it's somewhat reluctant right this moment--she has behaved in a way that was secretive. So now...how does she intend to demonstrate to you that she's not being secretive? She chose to hide the affair, and the consequence of behaving in a hiding way is that now she has to put up with a little "feeling overexposed." It's a cost of her choice! 

So you don't snoop and sneak on her--that would be no way to rebuild a trusting relationship (and it would probably feed your insecurity anyway)! Nope, she would need to have some understanding that her lying put her in the position of now having to be "extra open"....and then voluntarily say "Once a day I will hand you my cell phone and you can look at it to your heart's content." "Once a day we will sit down together and open all of my email accounts so you can look." And this is something you two do TOGETHER...so that it's not you snooping and it's not a big burden that's just on her--you two are a TEAM and you do it together. 

In conclusion, you two do this as a Mutual United Understanding (MUU). This is where you two agree that you will do NOTHING without your spouse being enthusiastic. If you suggest something and she doesn't want to, but gives in to your side, she will feel resentment or she will feel like next time you should give in to her! Instead, just agree that from now on you'll work on things until you can BOTH say, "Hey you know what? I can agree to that!"  So same here...you two negotiate a bit on what would help you regain trust, and what she would be willing to do to rebuild trust. (Well..actually you DO trust her. You trust her dishonesty! What we usually mean here is rebuilding trust in her HONESTY.) For example, talk together like a negotiation and come to MUU's about rules you can agree on, like: she won't close her laptop the minute you come in a room, she'll give you her passwords, she'll point her screen out into the room so anyone can see it, etc. This way, you can REQUEST what would work for you, and she can say "yes I'll do that" "no I won't do that" or "no I won't do that but I will do this" and it treats her with dignity. 



> She also said that I hadn't forgiven her for her actions. I responded by saying that I did forgive her or I wouldn't still be trying to save the marriage. I expressed the pain that she caused me by her actions, and she surprised me by saying that she regretted doing what she did with the OM. However, she fell back into her old line of comparing her actions to "15 years of misery (in the marriage)," and how I couldn't handle the amount of pain that she went through.
> 
> I love the fact that we're beginning to speak again, as I see it as the first step to a possible reconciliation. But I'm having a REAL hard time believing her when she says that she's breaking it off with him, when I still see that they text message and have short cell conversations. That will probably be our next topic of conversation tonight. She did express frustration that her family calls me to see if she is still contacting the OM, and can't understand why they don't ask her. When I responded that they don't trust her, she got upset and ended the conversation.


Yeah--it hurts to hear the truth. Okay so #1, she has GOT to END ALL CONTACT WITH THE OTHER MAN...PERIOD. That means no more "little text messages and short cell conversations." I would work on that #1. Then when she's written the letter and given it to you, #2 is working together on the details of how she'll have no contact. Hash out if she's going to delete his phone #, block him, delete her email, etc. and then work on that together. (BTW, saying, "I just won't answer his calls" or "I won't read his texts" does not count. It does need to be more concrete such as blocking him...). #3 would be working on a MUU about rebuilding trust in her HONESTY and we say stand firm on the transparency because *she* made the choice to behave in a dishonest way and now *she* needs to make the choice to behave in an honest way...and here's how she'll prove it XYZ. See what I mean? 

If you get that far..you have made some SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS. At that point I'd say take that woman out for a nice night out!


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Initfortheduration said:


> RR, I am sorry, but there is no contrition, no humility, and only blame shifting. You may well have emotionally distant, that is something that can be worked on in counseling. But her doing some guy in your home is so far beyond the pail. Her attitude does not convey any sorrow for hurting you or the kids. Her problem is, she has not experienced the consequences of what she has done. She needs an "It's a wonderful life" moment. Where she can actually envision losing her life (home) with you and your family. Until that happens, you are wasting your time and actually could be hurting recovery. You need to 180, separate finances. And be banished from your bedroom until she decides if she wants to in the marriage. You are not the standby, 2nd choice, the fallback, her security blanket. The more you try to restore things without her actually accepting blame and owning her own ****, the less respect she will have for you. JMHO


Very, very sound advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RegionRat (Dec 23, 2010)

It's been awhile since I've posted here, and a few more things have happened. As I mentioned in my last post, I had some concerns about "a few texts and short conversations" that I noticed on the cell phone records, and I asked her about it. To my chagrin, she pointed out that the number I thought was his was actually NOT his -- which made her even madder.

Then I did what I've been wanting to do for awhile -- I admitted to her that I had been reading her emails, printing them out and saving them. I wanted to admit to her my actions for a couple of reasons: 1) I felt dirty and awful about what I was doing -- I didn't like who I'd become and needed to stop and 2) I felt that it would be the first step to rebuilding the trust between us as I gave her a peace offering (the emails that I had printed).

Unfortunately, only one of the two happened. I haven't read another email since the Monday after Christmas (the day after I exposed the affair) and I feel much better about that. However, my wife isn't quite as forgiving. In fact she has grown even more irate that I would DARE invade her privacy and she can't trust me. I've tried to stay away from being goaded into a fight over this, as she refuses to understand that I feel a lack of trust as well. I agree with Affaircare's idea of secrecy vs. privacy, but my wife isn't there.

Right now, I'm stuck in a damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't situation. If I don't tell her everything I do, then I'm a bad guy and sneaky. And if I do tell her (such as saying that I've spoken with a lawyer when she asks me), then I'm a bad guy as well. 

So, I feel better about myself as I know that I'm doing everything to help save this marriage. But right now, I know she's not even close -- and I can't change that right now. So it's staying with Plan A and the 180 until June when I'm going to re-evaluate. So, it's still full-speed ahead.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

You are going about this wrong. She cheated. She doesn't deserve your trust.

Don't apologize for checking up on her ..... Tell her that she should expect to be checked up on. If she has nothing to hide, then it shouldn't matter to her.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Trust your gut if she is having lots of text conversations it is with someone , dial the number , those in affairs are most devious. As for the emails read them, privacy is going to the bathroom - secrecy in a marriage is deceit. Do not fear her anger it will blow over . I would carry on gathering evidence do not doubt yourself they work to a script and there is a very good chance they are still in contact, if they are still in contact there is a way forward, so snoop it is not you that should feel guilty she certainly does not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Dial the number. Who did she say it was and why would you trust her? 

Now is not the time to second guess yourself. It quite possible she is still playing games and I think you know it. 

The script for affairs and the waywards is all the same. They will lie, lie, lie to keep the addiction of the affair going. 

I know it's painful to snoop. You need to know the truth. Unfortunately, now that you've told her, it may drive this even further underground. 

Never ever give your hand away. It was her choice to cheat and now it's yours to snoop. 

By the way, privacy is for the bathroom. You're invading her secrecy and that has no place in a marriage. It will kill it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Dude she totaly turned this around on you and you let her. Show some tough love and grow a pair.

Sorry for being so harsh but come on, she is doing you wrong and you have not given her any consequences for her behavior. I get the feeling you will tolorate her behavior and will just let it go on until June. 

Are there any consequences she will have if she continues to contact OM? At least she should have the consequence of you checking up on her for behaving badly the 1st time. I kind of get the whole thats not me thing but....

I quess I just don't get it, sorry.


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

I read this quote on another forum somewhere and I think it applies to your WW actions -

"You always have a choice with your actions, you NEVER have a choice with the consequences!"


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

RegionRat said:


> It's been awhile since I've posted here, and a few more things have happened. As I mentioned in my last post, I had some concerns about "a few texts and short conversations" that I noticed on the cell phone records, and I asked her about it. To my chagrin, she pointed out that the number I thought was his was actually NOT his -- which made her even madder.


If it were me I would say, _"Oh I'm sorry I was wrong about the other man's number. What IS the other man's number so you can show me that you're not calling it? How exactly are you going to demonstrate to me that you're not in contact with him?"_



> Then I did what I've been wanting to do for awhile -- I admitted to her that I had been reading her emails, printing them out and saving them. I wanted to admit to her my actions for a couple of reasons: 1) I felt dirty and awful about what I was doing -- I didn't like who I'd become and needed to stop and 2) I felt that it would be the first step to rebuilding the trust between us as I gave her a peace offering (the emails that I had printed).


I am not positive this was a wise move because I think you keep expecting your wife, who's actively involved in an affair, to react in a way that "makes sense" compared to the person she usually was. The person who's before you right now will not be like the woman you have known for most of the rest of your marriage. So expecting her to act "reasonable" is an error on your part--she won't. She is going to try every trick in the book to paint you as the "bad guy" and why she "had to" have an affair...in order to justify doing what she knows is wrong. That is just a fact, and the sooner you accept that she's not reasonable or herself, the sooner you'll be able to deal with her. 

HOWEVER, I suspect you did this move about 90% FOR YOU...namely you had become the kind of man you did not want to be. From *that* point of view, this was a medium good idea because now at least you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning. 



> Unfortunately, only one of the two happened. I haven't read another email since the Monday after Christmas (the day after I exposed the affair) and I feel much better about that. However, my wife isn't quite as forgiving. *In fact she has grown even more irate that I would DARE invade her privacy and she can't trust me. * I've tried to stay away from being goaded into a fight over this, as she refuses to understand that I feel a lack of trust as well. I agree with Affaircare's idea of secrecy vs. privacy, but my wife isn't there.


:lol: I actually love this one: "How dare you find out what's REALLY going on! I'm lying to your face, I'm purposely hiding the sexual emails and I'm sleeping with someone else---but YOU are just *evil *for checking up on me!" :rofl: I'm sorry but did you really fall for this RegionRat? I'm not laughing at you, so don't misunderstand, but this is CLASSIC Disloyal Spouse blameshifting. She can huff and puff all she wants, but as her spouse, you do you have the right to intimately and deeply know the true her in a way that no other person on the earth has a right to! Is it "a good thing" that you have to sneak behind your wife's back to read her email? No. Not really. It would be ideal if she would share it with you herself, or if she's losing her feelings for you, share THAT with you. But it is not wrong or illegal or anything for you to look at your spouse's things--even their underwear drawer! But it most definitely IS WRONG of her to lie to you, mislead you, omit things, hide her cell and emails from you, and have sex with others (even cybersex)!!!! That is very wrong! So rather than deal with herself, she tries to shift the blame to you and see if you'll take it. 

Please don't. 

I would say something like this: _"Okay it wasn't my grandest moment to have to look at your email, but I would not have been there if you had been telling me the truth all along, and I have conclusive evidence you have been lying. Thus, let's not get off track here. The topic of our discussion is that adultery is not okay with me."_



> Right now, I'm stuck in a damned-if-I-do, damned-if-I-don't situation. If I don't tell her everything I do, then I'm a bad guy and sneaky. And if I do tell her (such as saying that I've spoken with a lawyer when she asks me), then I'm a bad guy as well.
> 
> So, I feel better about myself as I know that I'm doing everything to help save this marriage. But right now, I know she's not even close -- and I can't change that right now. So it's staying with Plan A and the 180 until June when I'm going to re-evaluate. So, it's still full-speed ahead.


Again, you do need to do the right thing and be the better man by being honest and doing what you have to do to protect the family. If she is committing adultery that means the OM is waging war against your family and half of your joint assets. So it is reasonable for you to tell her right out: _"Due to your adultery, I just wanted you to know that I am seeing a lawyer to get informed as to my rights and advice how to best protect the family and the marriage. I will do everything in my power to make sure the OM doesn't harm us." _

RegionRat--seriously, do not keep swallowing her B.S. :bsflag:


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I was going to write a more thorough reply, but pretty much all of it has been said. I'll keep it short and sweet... Get your balls back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SurprisedinME (Jan 7, 2011)

Any update?


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