# Technology, Spying and Cheating



## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

I know I am going to stir up a lot of heated emotions with this thread, so before I begin, please know that I do not advocate spying any more than I advocate cheating. I am not interested in a moral/ethical debate whatsoever; nor what laws are where or what is admissible or not. I'm referring here FOR YOUR OWN INFORMATION AND NOTHING MORE.

If you find yourself reading this and feeling tempted to ask "Why?" just remember I am interested in the "How", please.

My goal is simply to have a respectful and informative exchange. 
Now, I am not a person who is into technology. I just got my first touchscreen phone at the age of 35, and am slowly learning about apps, vaults, email aliases, etc. Heck, I'm still trying to completely understand what an app is, what "clouds" and "drives" do and how they can aide cheaters in concealing information. Of course, the very definition of what constitutes "cheating" is a long, hot debate in and of itself. Let's not distract ourselves with that.

Where to begin.... I think the best way for me to talk about a subject I don't know much about would be to list some observations I've had in the past few months, most regarding a cell phone...

* A "frequent" number not listed in the call history, but a number that shows up when opening a blank text message. *I* am not even a "frequent" contact, and he calls me daily. The number is also TOO LONG, 12 digits if I recall correctly, and when called, you get the "check the number and try again" prompt.

* Several consecutive numbers in the call history, for example, 738-0007, 738-0008, 738-0009, 738-0010 and so on. Many of these numbers are a 'quick' busy signal when you attempt to call them back.

* The complete absence of the number "4" - Let me try to explain. I will open a blank text message and in the "to" box I will entire one number at a time to see which numbers have been called/texted. This is easier for me than going through call logs. I enter "1" and look through the results, then delete the "1" and start with "2" to view the numbers. Every number 0-9 has a list of results EXCEPT "4". Absolutely nothing for it. Even numbers WITH "4" in it do not appear.

* Outgoing calls TO Private numbers... How?

* Identical Gmail addresses with two different passwords? I think one may be an alias, but I'm not sure exactly how makes this. 

* For a brief period of time, when this person called my phone, the contact ID photo I set for them, as well as nickname (everyone in my phone is saved under a nickname, not their formal name) would appear, and minutes later the same person would have a different photo and their formal name appear, and this would go back and forth so many times in a short period I could not NOT noticed. When asked, the person said they had no clue what I was talking about and it hasn't happened since....

* Under "My Devices" there has been a T-Mobile phone that is active about once a week or so, but I've never had T-Mobile. Ever. Suddenly, my husband's phone (originally registered in November) was now showing registered in May, and also was only showing active once or twice a week, even though I see him using it every day....

I basically get the "you're losing it/crazy/you need help" line when I try to ask about these things, so I've learned to just journal what I see and hope it makes sense someday....

I have many, many, many more examples to include, but not the time to write them at the moment...

(And yes, I know he's up to something, I know I should probably leave and not waste my time... But first I want to know "how"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

There is a whole other odd side story to this, and frankly, I have no clue what to make of it.

When my husband created (and didn't inform me whatsoever) his new Gmail address in May, he also created a Google Hangouts/Google Plus account. I had to create a different identity myself to see who was in his "circles" (I really don't understand any of this craps). I assume he blocked my existing Gmail account/address because his info isn't viewable.

I, being female, assumed his two "friends" we're women... But lo and behold... One "friend" was actually his dummy account (with the one I found first being saved under the name "The Real Account" in his phone's contacts...). There I found his second friend who is actually the ex-boyfriend of a very good friend of mine (a woman), who had shown me years ago her boyfriend (let's call him M) had posted ads on Craigslist looking for other men in 2013. I never would have believed it had she not showed me on Craigslist.

Ok. Cool. I'm really open minded and I figured that was the real reason they split up over a year ago. No big deal to me, I remained friends with both, although I invested a great more energy into my female friend than M.

So far, so good?

In early July of this year, armed with my brand new Google/Gmail whatever account, I began looking up my husband's name and finding a ridiculous amount of profiles with his same name. Based on the link in his contacts list, I was able to find his "real" account, which at the time had 2 or 3 followers, and about 5k views that I remember... (Of course I'm taking time and date stamped screenshots all the way). The Dummy account (it took me awhile to figure this out, initially I did not know there were two accounts and felt both were one)....

After locating the Real Account, I began just sort of of checking on it now and then when I had computer access. I would go to Hangouts and it would say "last online at 3:17am" or something to that affect.

I joined Google Hangouts under my original Gmail, and was not able to locate his profile. I believe I had been blocked.

Under my new Gmail and new Hangouts (now I have 2 accounts) I was able to locate him and see when he was available, on a call, etc. All very late/early in the morning. With his only two friends being himself and my friend's ex, I started to wonder what they were possibly talking about... In a video call... At 3am.... ESPECIALLY since I had been told by my husband that he no longer talked to M after he and my friend broke up.

If you've stayed with me so far, you deserve a friggin' medal!

Now I still occasionally talk to M, as he was my friend first, then introduced me to his then girlfriend, and we became very close. I decided to spend even more time catching up with M and doing regular friend things - shopping, etc. 

I began to drop hints to M about my husband's activities online over time and he just pretended to know nothing. Then one day I told him I knew he was my husband's only "friend" on Hangouts and started grilling... Lightly. Oh, he said they friended each other two years ago but don't talk anymore, etc.

Two days later, M's profile was completely deleted. He didn't just remove himself as my husband's friend, he deleted everything.

When I asked him why, he said the app was taking up too much power on his phone. I knew this was a lie, because 1, his new phone did not have internet. It was a basic service call/text only "Obama" phone as he put it. 2 the phone he had complete service on was shut off.

It was about this time I confronted my husband and he gave me the password to his "Dummy" account, which I changed immediately. However, I now feel this was really a decoy (an alias email or disposable email) because he continues to use the same address and receive notifications, but when I try to check them I get a "app failed to respond and must close" message... Which I had read somewhere was a protective measure on the phone the app was installed on. I received this message on my own phone.... And still do.

I don't know what is going on, but I feel like it must be pretty important for the two of them to be so secretive...

Any thoughts?

I have a monumental headache after trying to articulate and type all of that.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

First, you're not going to stir up any emotions or get any backlash here for spying. We're all pro-spying here.

I have no clue what to make of your first post and most of the technical stuff of the second since Google Plus really confuses me. @GusPolinski might be able to provide insight on your first post. 

You have every right to be concerned here. Most people do not put so much effort into creating real accounts, dummy accounts, blocking their wife, etc. It also sounds like he was web-camming with M in the middle of the night.....

Have you perused your local Craigslist casual encounters section to see if any ads look like they could be your husband's? (I'd check M4W and M4M)


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

Yes I have, but nothing has really stood out yet...

And I would absolutely not have an issue with what I think is going on, except that I also suspect M of feeding my husband lies in an effort to get him away from me.

Not that it's my loss... But I am starting to wonder if I am really crazy or not.... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Just going off Occam's Razor here: I have to believe a lot of what you've seen is inconsequential to your (suspected) issue. I can't believe that someone would need to go through such ridiculous lengths to hide an affair. I mean, can't he just make an email address that you don't know about and access it somewhere else to do his communication? All you typed sounds the guy is trying to facilitate the hostile takeover of an entire foreign economy.

That being said, most of that doesn't really make any sense to me either, and I consider myself at least somewhat fluent in the basics of modern technology. I'll be curious to hear a more informed opinion.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i'm pro spying too. i exited a disastrous relationship and sure life long of misery by spying.


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

ChangedBeliefs.... Earlier this year my husband started going to the library.. a lot..... He'd spend hours there (and since it was a community center, there was an attached gym) and he'd be gone for ridiculous amounts of time..... With nothing to show for it..... And it is true he went there often before losing his job, but being that the center is 7/10ths of a mile away and he was usually gone 30 minutes and this suddenly increased to like 3 hours and he'd have a stupid excuse... Like traffic or long lines....

There are so many little side stories to this whole thing it's ridiculous... As a self-proclaimed "***-hag" I would think my husband who have no troubles coming out to me if that were the case.... I just don't understand....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

Trust me... I couldn't make this up if I tried. I e been working almost a year to decipher and figure out every little thing....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Not everyone is pro spying. If you have to go to these great lengths to find information just file for divorce.


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

Same could be said for my husband and whatever he is hiding....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

EverythingU.RNot said:


> Same could be said for my husband and whatever he is hiding....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Whats your gut telling you? He is cheating correct? All the spying in the world will not change that.


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

My gut is telling me something unusual is going on. Do I believe it's cheating? More than likely, yes. 

You need to observe my goal, however. My goal is to make sense of this, explore other rational explanations, not jump to conclusions, investigate until I am satisfied.

What's happening is happening and nothing I find out will change the past. It's not my goal to change my suspicions. It's my goal to be objective.

Yes, even if he is not cheating, I have this and probably a hundred other reasons to leave. But I have my reasons to stay, too. And no, it's not all financial... It would actually have a lot to do his family, our child, etc. First and foremost, I do not want to chase him with judgement or retaliation. People who lie are people who are afraid. I try to be mindful of the turmoil he might have inside over his identity.

Of course I don't like being deceived. But I just feel I should further educate myself to his means, understand his psychology and better myself in the long run by doing what most people are too self-absorbed to do: care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EverythingU.RNot said:


> My gut is telling me something unusual is going on. Do I believe it's cheating? More than likely, yes.
> 
> You need to observe my goal, however. My goal is to make sense of this, explore other rational explanations, not jump to conclusions, investigate until I am satisfied.
> 
> ...


So, if you were to ind out he was having a gay affair, what would you do?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
any chance his phone has been hacked? That sounds more likely.

Hiding an affair is too easy. Just have a secret email, and if needed a burner phone. Leave your own phone at work so it isn't tracked.


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

I would hope he and I could discuss our goals. Do we want to remain under the same house? Live separately? Divorce?

It would involve the both of us, not just me.

I will be ok if he is gay, or even bi.

I will be upset over being lied to.

I understand why someone with his upbringing would be afraid to tell the truth.

If he is gay, honestly I would feel a strange level of relief. Needless to say, our sex life is almost non-existent. The tension of things not being said is stressful. And no solution can be appropriate until at atmosphere of trust and acceptance can be established.

He will be embarrassed and feel shame... And I do not want that for him. 

I am fairly certain that a divorce would happen, but I would want no hard feelings between us....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

I do not believe his phone has been hacked. In fact the other night I set up a surprise get together between M and H... They both were extremely awkward, and while at the store, each tried his own attempt to excuse himself. I can't say why, but I can guess....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EverythingU.RNot said:


> I do not believe his phone has been hacked. In fact the other night I set up a surprise get together between M and H... They both were extremely awkward, and while at the store, each tried his own attempt to excuse himself. I can't say why, but I can guess....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm not sure I understand. How did you do this? What exactly did you do?


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

I was with M and asked him to go with me to pick up my H. He was ok, (he needed to go to the store anyways), my H seemed more u comfortable, as I did not tell him in advance, although he knows that I often see M before picking him up from work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

It wasn't done with any ill intent... In fact I was quite surprised with their reactions....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

They both tried the 'I'll go over here and meet you when I'm done' kind of thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Just getting started on this now. Having not read through all of the replies just yet, I'd like to ask the following...

@EverythingU.RNot, your suspicions aside, how would you describe your marriage? Bad, Poor, "Meh", Decent, OK, Good, Awesome...?

On a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being "F*ck this assh*le, I'm gone" and 10 being "He's so awesome, I love him so much and want to stay with him forever"), how would you rate your marriage?

ETA: Nevermind. Just finished the first page.


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

Yeah... I was going to say that multiple factors are against us, and no amount of effort of my end will compensate for lack...

I do love him. He's a different kind of person for sure, but not always in a good manner. He is aloof and very self-involved... He is extremely polarized on his thinking (I.E. You are good or bad, this situation is good or bad, mistakes are bad, you are bad, etc.)

But I do not think like him (thank goodness). Although he is very negative, I understand why. Although he sucks as a husband, I understand why. Knowing and empathizing, of course, does nothing, and I accept that.

He is mildly autistic and has had a "different" childhood. He has been abused, witnessed abuse and there are several factors that contribute to his ultimate fear of being "engulfed" by me and my love.

No, he's not going to change, and that's ok. I can and will change someday and that's ok too.

Probably of all things, the thing that hurts the most is: he never (ok, very rarely), let's his guard down. He is always on the defensive, which means he must interpret logic, reason, affection and sincerity in a very skewed way. In his mind I am only operating strictly to gain something that somehow depletes him but benefits me.

So very often we are both depleted.

I don't think he will ever trust himself to be authentic around me or anyone else because of what seems like like an overwhelming fear of rejection controlling him.

He doesn't laugh at my jokes. In fact he rarely smiles. The only things he seems to talk about are how he'd be better off without me and that I am a constant disappointment to him.

He has to have a secret life where nobody knows him... So he can feel safe. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

I am still interested in learning his tricks.... So perhaps in the future I won't be so naive....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

I'm either extremely stupid or a glutton for punishment.... Or both. 

Http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/298113-found-panties-my-bed.html#post13979521


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

EverythingU.RNot said:


> I'm either extremely stupid or a glutton for punishment.... Or both.
> 
> Http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/298113-found-panties-my-bed.html#post13979521


I just commented on your other post and didn't realize it was you/this story. 

I think he put the panties there to fvck with you because he knows you're on to him with the whole gay thing. He's not going to admit to not cheating, but he's not going to admit to cheating with a man.


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## EverythingU.RNot (Sep 2, 2015)

LoL I just had to say I cracked a smile reading that, lol! I can totally understand why that would be the case, given his strict religious upbringing, his family would disown him. Or at least stop sending him his "allowance" 

And I'd be ok if he were gay or bi.

But the lying? All the weird sh!t he's been doing on his phone lately? It's not cool.

But, these are not new panties.

nd something I just remembered
... He pocket-dialed me the other night while he was at work and for 25 minutes I heard some normal work things going on... Then it sounded like he was further away from the activity, the sound of a zipper being zipped up or down and at least one kinky sounding moan.... From him.

I could be reading A LOT into that.... But I have a call recorder on my phone, so it can be replayed.

I'm not sure I want to replay it anytime soon.. I will admit that once I get a thought in my head I can become blind to other possibilities.

So posting here has been very helpful and I'm thankful for the insight everyone has to offer...

I just can't sleep tonight to save my @$$. Ugh.


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