# Am I a selfish monster?



## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Short version - 
My fiance and I eloped spur of the moment friday afternoon and got married at the courthouse. My mom knew we planned to get married, but the plans were for October. I eloped last time I got married and my mom was "terribly hurt" not to have been involved. I had asked her in advance if if was important to her to be there this time because we really did NOT want to do a ceremony with other people. She said she'd like to be there but it was not real important because she had gotten over it from the last time. I called her the morning after we married (yesterday) and she seemed fine but today I got an email (below in italics) about how hurt she is. 

Details:
I just got married for the 3rd time.
The first time I got married at a friends house and had a big party and all family was invited and came. Including my mom.

The second time my ex and I eloped to las vegas just us two. I actually wanted to have a small wedding but he really pushed against that, and I went along with what he wanted. My mom didn't say anything until FIVE YEARS after we got married she blew up at me on the phone one day because I had not invited her. Apparently she had been harboring this notion in her head that she had not been invited because we had secretly done a double-wedding with my dad and step mom! (WTF?! My dad didn't even go to my high school graduation because he doesn't like crowds or pomp and circumstance.)

SO - my husband and I have been engaged for awhile and were originally planning to marry in October when the weather is better for a party. We're in a small town and everyone has all kinds of "helpful" ideas for our wedding and party. At some point we decided we really don't even want to do a party. But everyone else seems to want it.

We told everyone, including my mom, that we just want to go to the justice of the peace, alone, the two of us, for the wedding vows. 

The other day I asked my mom "How important is it to you to be there when we say our vows? Because last time I eloped you were upset." She said she was "over that" and it was no longer important because I already did it to her before." Then she did say "Yeah, I would LIKE to be there." But we talked more about how all our friends want to be there but I would only be doing that because other people WANT me to WANT that, not because I actually WANT that. I did say it would be October before we got married anyhow.

The other day I mentioned to my guy that even if we do end up having a wedding party in October, if we really want to do our wedding vows in private, we can do that ANY time. Well he SPRUNG into action and thought he had everything planned at the courthouse for Friday at 5:30 PM. But Friday afternoon he went to check on things and the clerk had given him bogus info and we had to be down there in 15 minutes with money orders and cash and IDs...

My man of action got everything together while I was frantically sending emails to clients 5 minutes before our new deadline -- ran down the road to the courthouse in jeans with no makeup and got it done!!! Then we went out the two of us and ran into friends at the bar (very small town), they were thrilled and celebrated with us.

I called my mom first thing the next day and told her. She was polite. I talked to her again later that day, she seemed normal. Then this morning I got this in an email from her:

_"Suppose I should stick my chin out and go on. This time I am deeply hurt you could have at least told me in advance.. I never thought you would do it again. First time hurt so bad. . I planned my first wedding around my mom so that she could get off work Second wedding made certain whole family there."_

I sent her a reply that was not terribly sympathetic -- pointing out I asked her in advance if she cared and she said no, and that I'm sad her feelings are hurt but I wanted my wedding to be about what I wanted, not what other people wished I wanted.

ANYHOW - *I want opinions - were my actions selfish and wrong?* I do see her point about me not at least telling her first, and I was planning to call her in advance, but the way things worked out, having to be there an hour and a half before we expected left no wiggle room. I could have called her between the paperwork and the actual ceremony, but I honestly was thinking about us, and what we wanted. I was not thinking about her. This is TRUE. It is also true that if my mom had a different personality I might have wanted her there. I'm not sure.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

You must really love wedding cake.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Andy1001 said:


> You must really love wedding cake.


If I loved wedding cake I might have had a wedding.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, you aren’t wrong. It’s about the two of you and not about her or anyone else.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Your mom really must not understand what it means to elope. You don't tell anyone you're going to elope and that is the whole point. I tell you I never had that dream they say all women have of having a wedding. If I had married I definitely would have eloped. I don't need the headache. 

If she wants a wedding she can go get married again herself. It's your choice what to do about how you get married not your mother's. If there is this much drama just a loping I can't even imagine how much drama there would have been if she actually had to be involved in a wedding.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Make sure she gets invited to your next wedding.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Monster? No. Selfish? Maybe. Inconsiderate? Very. You asked her if she wanted to be there, she said yes she would like to. You decided that didn’t matter to you. That’s okay too, but own it. All your detail about how it was supposed to be 5:30 but turned out you needed to be there in 15 mins is bogus. You knew at least Friday morning you were getting married that day, not October. You could’ve had what you WANTED and still been considerate by letting her know beforehand. Frankly, if you hadn’t asked her in advance if she would be hurt or not by not being there I would say you were free and clear of any wrong doing. But you did ask and basically set her up to be hurt. You set up this drama and I think you owe her an apology.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I don't think you're a ''monster,'' but your actions sound passive-aggressive, sending your mom mixed messages. I echo that an apology would be a good idea. There may very well be deeper issues here between you and your mother, as you mention her personality, but just my advice reading this situation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I feel it's important to at least have very close family and a few close friends at your wedding. It's partly about making vows in front of those who care about you. 
There is no way I could have gone off and got married and not told my parents or included them. In the UK we have to give notice anyway for a few weeks legally and also everyone has to have 2 witnesses. 
Sadly when I married for the second time both of my parents were dead, but I would have loved them to be there. 
We just had a small wedding with our adult children, a few close relatives and friends, and it was lovely. Didn't cost much and no fuss. 

Yes I do think that you were selfish, especially as you know she was hurt before.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Your Mom is disappointed and fed up. She is allowed to be, just like you are allowed to elope. She also has a right to be pissed if she planed a bunch of stuff. That being said after the second time I would have been like, tell me were it is and I might show up. I mean she should have expected it.

A way to smooth this over might be to have a catered party, maybe in your back yard or something, you and your husband show up dressed to the nines and maybe even do a ceremony. Hope that your Mom shows up. 

Obviously up to you.


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## Lapm (10 mo ago)

I think it was very inconsiderate of you not to tell your mother of your plans to elope. i understand it all happened quickly, but this is your mom and you should have taken the time to call her. its time to sit down with mom and discuss this.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Bluesclues said:


> Monster? No. Selfish? Maybe. Inconsiderate? Very. You asked her if she wanted to be there, she said yes she would like to. You decided that didn’t matter to you. That’s okay too, but own it. All your detail about how it was supposed to be 5:30 but turned out you needed to be there in 15 mins is bogus. You knew at least Friday morning you were getting married that day, not October. You could’ve had what you WANTED and still been considerate by letting her know beforehand. Frankly, if you hadn’t asked her in advance if she would be hurt or not by not being there I would say you were free and clear of any wrong doing. But you did ask and basically set her up to be hurt. You set up this drama and I think you owe her an apology.


Thanks for your response, Yeah, I guess I am inconsiderate because I really did not "consider" her the day we did it -- I didn't even think about her until the next morning, and then I thought I'd just keep quiet about it for awhile, then come up with something (a lie) to tell her later, like "we decided we're just going to do XYZ..." But we ran into our next door neighbor on our way back from the court house and told her without thinking. The neighbor sent me a text message the next morning that gave me the distinct impression she had called my mom and told her, so I was like "Oh crap," and called my mom up and tried act innocent.

But as for asking her "if she wanted to be there" in advance -- I asked her if it was *really important *to her to be there and explained because *we* didn't want people there. She said no it was not a couple times, then added that she would *like *to be there. I further explained how we really wanted to just do it alone. I thought I was in the clear.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

FarmTownGirl said:


> But as for asking her "if she wanted to be there" in advance -- I asked her if it was *really important *to her to be there and explained because *we* didn't want people there. She said no it was not a couple times, then added that she would *like *to be there. I further explained how we really wanted to just do it alone. I thought I was in the clear.


Why would you ask her if it was really important for her to be there, knowing you didn't want people there? She said yes, she would like to be there, and the response was basically a "well **** you, we don't want you there".


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Your Mom is disappointed and fed up. She is allowed to be, just like you are allowed to elope. She also has a right to be pissed if she planed a bunch of stuff. That being said after the second time I would have been like, tell me were it is and I might show up. I mean she should have expected it.
> 
> A way to smooth this over might be to have a catered party, maybe in your back yard or something, you and your husband show up dressed to the nines and maybe even do a ceremony. Hope that your Mom shows up.
> 
> Obviously up to you.


Thanks. I guess what frustrates me is that we don't want to have a party. We don't want to get dressed up. We strongly didn't want a public ceremony. And I explained that to her multiple times. I understand she strongly wishes we would do that and she is disappointed, but I'm having trouble figuring out where the line is between living my life the way I want to live it, and family obligation to go through certain motions simply because people you care about want you to. 

I always assumed that when people have weddings it's because that's what they WANT to do. But maybe for many it is more just being thoughtful and caring for what others want. 

It seems there will be a party regardless because all our friends want that and they are basically going to throw one for us. My mom will definitely be invited and I will do my best to make a fuss over her. But it does stress me out because there will be a lot of other friends and family there, some I rarely see will travel in, and I know my mom will expect me to give her 90% of my time and attention during this party.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

The respectful and considerate thing to do would have been to just say "Hi we have decided to elope at the court house on a whim". Then at least she doesn't find out after the fact. Maybe apologize and tell her she'll get notified next time.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Don't worry about it, when wedding # 4 comes around invite her this time. Problem solved.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You knew she wanted to be there and decided that didn't matter to you.

As has already been pointed out, you should own that. It's your right to do what you want but don't play dumb. Playing dumb is passive aggressive and generally nasty


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

I think you sound impulsive and your mother is disappointed because she hopes someday you will become more considerate.

What that ends up being is a dynamic where each expects the other to act the way they want, and both end up disappointed.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Definition of "Elope"

"run away secretly in order to get married, especially without parental consent."

So, all and any consideration (s) should be a mute point. How pathetic that anyone needs to think that an adult person have to have others into consideration when deciding to marry, specially when eloping. Isn't "Eloping" by definition a running away, secretly, without anyone's knowledge or consent? No one owns no-one an explanation.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rob_1 said:


> Definition of "Elope"
> 
> "run away secretly in order to get married, especially without parental consent."
> 
> So, all and any consideration (s) should be a mute point. How pathetic that anyone needs to think that an adult person have to have others into consideration when deciding to marry, specially when eloping. Isn't "Eloping" by definition a running away, secretly, without anyone's knowledge or consent? No one owns no-one an explanation.


Fair enough, but then why ask your mother if it's super important and then when she indicates it's at least kind of important you ignore that, do what you want, then play dumb?

Eloping without any discussion would've at least been honest.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My guess is she pretended she didn’t care about being there as much as she really did. Speaking as the mother of a middle-age child who had one large wedding and one wedding with only the two of them, I was good with however my child wanted to handle it. It wasn’t about me after all.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> You knew she wanted to be there and decided that didn't matter to you.
> 
> As has already been pointed out, you should own that. It's your right to do what you want but don't play dumb. Playing dumb is passive aggressive and generally nasty


I do own that and I'm not playing dumb -- though I have been thinking about this a lot today and I realize I CAN be very clueless sometimes.

But I completely own and understand that 1) My mom wanted me to have a public ceremony and have her there. 2) I did NOT want to do that, and didn't do it. My question is -- should I have done it anyhow. Would a decent, considerate daughter just suck it up and have her mom there and go do her own "fun, private" thing with her new husband another time. 

I do realize I REALLY screwed the pooch by not saying "hey we are eloping today" before doing it.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> My guess is she pretended she didn’t care about being there as much as she really did. Speaking as the mother of a middle-age child who had one large wedding and one wedding with only the two of them, I was good with however my child wanted to handle it. It wasn’t about me after all.


Yeah, I knew on some level she wanted it to be the way she wanted it to be. I was hoping that by explaining to her that that was NOT what I wanted, that would make it okay but deep down I know my mom better than that. I did have a "real-ish" wedding the first time and she was involved. Given this is my THIRD marriage I would have felt ridiculous making a thing out of it. Disappointed and hurt is my mom's baseline. In my mind I knew she'd be upset but I said to myself "This is not about her. Do what YOU (me) want." And I did but now I'm sick to my stomach because she's so upset and I do feel a little guilty -- like maybe most people would have done more to humor their mom.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> I don't think you're a ''monster,'' but your actions sound passive-aggressive, sending your mom mixed messages. I echo that an apology would be a good idea. There may very well be deeper issues here between you and your mother, as you mention her personality, but just my advice reading this situation.


Yeah. I was not deliberately being passive aggressive -- I was hoping that by talking with her in advance and explaining how much I didn't want people there that she would see that it was not about her and not be personally hurt. But I did leave the door open to her being there, then decide to just go do it the way I wanted. I definitely could have handled that better. One issue is that my mom is almost always hurt and disappointed -- and my reaction to that is to try to make her feel better while simultaneously minimizing my exposure to her. I'm sure that's a mixed message to her.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Fair enough, but then why ask your mother if it's super important and then when she indicates it's at least kind of important you ignore that, do what you want, then play dumb?
> 
> Eloping without any discussion would've at least been honest.


I'm not saying it was the right way to handle it, but the *reason *I asked her was that I was hoping she would say no but also I wanted to explain to her, again, how much I did not want to do a ceremony, hoping she would realize it's nothing personal. That didn't work out so well...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@FarmTownGirl ,

First, one thing your mom said kind of stood out to me:

_"Suppose I should stick my chin out and go on. This time I am deeply hurt you could have at least told me in advance. I never thought you would do it again. First time hurt so bad. *I planned my first wedding around my mom so that she could get off work*. *Second wedding made certain whole family there*."_

It sounds like your mom set aside what she wanted "for her mom" on her first wedding, and her expectation was that you would do essentially what she did...at least once! It sounds like for her second wedding, not only did she consider her mom, but she also made sure that people who were important to her were there. Soooo...her expectation was that you would do like she did and that the people who were important to you would be invited--you didn't invite her and thus, she equates that to not being important to you. 

Second, all too often, when a young couple is getting married, the dysfunctional parts of the family come popping out. On one hand, a marriage is two people standing in front of their friends and family and saying "We choose to be together and form a new family". On the other hand, the marriage is a commitment between the two people (and their understanding of God) doing the legal requirements in order to form a new family. So yes, it is your marriage so it's what "you two" want. But also yes, it is you forming a new family in front of and with the support of your old families. It is a joyous moment! 

What struck me here is that over and over, as people here on TAM have said "Um...yeah you actually were kind of inconsiderate" you've come back with "But it's *MY *wedding! Doesn't what *I* want outweigh what other people want?" Well...being inconsiderate means "thoughtlessly causing hurt or inconvenience to others." That's pretty much what you did. Even if it is "your" wedding, you didn't think of others who would be happy for you and want to celebrate with you/for you. It wasn't like you wanted "red" bridesmaids and your mom was throwing a hissy fit because she thought you should have "blue" --or forced you to have a country wedding when you wanted something fancy in the city. Nope. You began your new marriage by focusing only on yourself...to the painful exclusion of others. 

Part of being a married person means that you volunteer to always consider another person--your spouse. And yet you started that relationship by acting in a way that was self-centered and did not consider others. I'm not saying you have to party like it's 1999, because that's not my style either. I'm an introvert and kind of private. But I knew that some of my family and some of my Beloved Buddhist's family ... and friends... would like to wish us well and witness our commitment. So we did a party that considered people but "was us". That's what would have been considerate for you to do. In my opinion, I think that's what would STILL be considerate for you to do. 

If you and your new husband do not want to do another commitment "ceremony" type thing...that's fine. That's you. You already committed in front of the judge. But I think it's reasonable to consider others. COVID made a lot of people miss their wedding and only hold a reception "after the fact" so do that. Do something that "is you." We did a catered BBQ and had pie for wedding cake. Yes--"do you" but yes--consider others. Begin your new life together demonstrating that you aren't self-centered but able to consider others (including your new spouse). Maybe do a potluck in your back yard or at the park. Maybe have a very exclusive dinner at a once-in-a-lifetime restaurant--and the bill will be outrageous but the few you select will be honored. Whatever your thing is, it's reasonable to plan it your way but also to consider that some folks--family and friends--are going to want a way to congratulate you and celebrate this new life.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

FarmTownGirl said:


> Yeah. I was not deliberately being passive aggressive -- I was hoping that by talking with her in advance and explaining how much I didn't want people there that she would see that it was not about her and not be personally hurt. But I did leave the door open to her being there, then decide to just go do it the way I wanted. I definitely could have handled that better. One issue is that my mom is almost always hurt and disappointed -- and my reaction to that is to try to make her feel better while simultaneously minimizing my exposure to her. I'm sure that's a mixed message to her.


Yea, no one really intends to send mixed messages but it happens sometimes. It’s best to just own our behaviors when we hurt people. I hope you can make amends. It’s never too late to apologize and begin anew.  I wish you good things in your new marriage.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

FarmTownGirl said:


> I'm not saying it was the right way to handle it, but the *reason *I asked her was that I was hoping she would say no but also I wanted to explain to her, again, how much I did not want to do a ceremony, hoping she would realize it's nothing personal. That didn't work out so well...


I get it, but if you ask you have to be prepared for a yes. Don't extend an invitation you don't want to be taken up on.

You should've had a direct conversation where you acknowledged that you understood what she wanted but for reasons x, y, and z you'd be eloping. Tell her directly it's not personal. What you did was take the cowards way our and then play dumb.

I recommend that you have a conversation with her right now where you acknowledged that you handled it poorly and for that you are sorry. You wanted something private and still don't want a parry, but might there be something you can give her? Maybe a nice dinner with friends and family?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

FarmTownGirl said:


> I do own that and I'm not playing dumb -- though I have been thinking about this a lot today and I realize I CAN be very clueless sometimes.
> 
> But I completely own and understand that 1) My mom wanted me to have a public ceremony and have her there. 2) I did NOT want to do that, and didn't do it. My question is -- should I have done it anyhow. Would a decent, considerate daughter just suck it up and have her mom there and go do her own "fun, private" thing with her new husband another time.
> 
> I do realize I REALLY screwed the pooch by not saying "hey we are eloping today" before doing it.


That a tough one. We all do things we really don't want to do for family, but what you want does matter. I personally think a small ceremony is worth it to make your mother happy (assuming she's not a big jerk) but I'm not you....you have to decide for yourself where to draw your line. Just think about whether the hurt feelings are worth ir. 

Sometimes that answer is yes, but on the flip side you'll get plenty of opportunities to do fun, private things with your husband. 

As of now, do you think it was worth it?

Don't take decent family for granted.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

FarmTownGirl said:


> Thanks. I guess what frustrates me is that we don't want to have a party. We don't want to get dressed up. We strongly didn't want a public ceremony. And I explained that to her multiple times. I understand she strongly wishes we would do that and she is disappointed, but I'm having trouble figuring out where the line is between living my life the way I want to live it, and family obligation to go through certain motions simply because people you care about want you to.
> 
> I always assumed that when people have weddings it's because that's what they WANT to do. But maybe for many it is more just being thoughtful and caring for what others want.
> 
> It seems there will be a party regardless because all our friends want that and they are basically going to throw one for us. My mom will definitely be invited and I will do my best to make a fuss over her. But it does stress me out because there will be a lot of other friends and family there, some I rarely see will travel in, and I know my mom will expect me to give her 90% of my time and attention during this party.


Well I think a good life strategy is when you love someone you do things that you may not want to do, to a point. What about the party is it that you don't like? Can you come to a happy medium. 

Another thing is if you have an overbearing parent you do things like a one day party but you put up boundaries with everyday stuff, then when they complain you say - Didn't "I just do this big party for you." The point being make a big show for one day, and the rest of the time you can get them to back off. Again better strategy.

As far as my marriage day. Both my wife and I would say we hardly remember it but at the end of the day is was us throwing a party for everyone else. 
It's up to you.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> That a tough one. We all do things we really don't want to do for family, but what you want does matter. I personally think a small ceremony is worth it to make your mother happy (assuming she's not a big jerk) but I'm not you....you have to decide for yourself where to draw your line. Just think about whether the hurt feelings are worth ir.
> 
> Sometimes that answer is yes, but on the flip side you'll get plenty of opportunities to do fun, private things with your husband.
> 
> ...


As of now I'm not sure -- I think a better way to handle it would have been to invite her (and her boyfriend) to be there and then gone out to eat with them. THEN tried to do our own thing, and if she wanted to stick around just write the evening off. My husband didn't want anyone there either, probably even more than me, I didn't want her there but I was mostly protecting him from her. (She's not a terrible person she's just pretty high maintenance -- negative, critical, disapproving, I must focus all attention on her to the exclusion of others, etc.) I need to learn to just ignore those traits and let my self have fun while she is sitting there looking like she's sucking on a lemon. Or just walk away and interact with other people too even though she wants me to sit with her the whole time. I told my husband today that I'm really not proud of myself and he agreed we can do better.

I did have a great night though -- it was perfect -- until the next morning when I realized my mom had to be told...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Sounds to me like your mom uses her negativity to influence the actions of those around her.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think you screwed up by not telling her beforehand. As someone else said, don't extend an invitation that you're not prepared to act on.

While your wedding is about you, yes, a nice compromise would have been to tell your mum on the day, and pick her up and take her with you, so that she could be there when her baby girl got married.

I would be so terribly hurt if my daughter did what you did.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

If this was your 1st wedding. yes I could see where your mom would be hurt. 

Just invite her to your 4th wedding. There will be one.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Sounds to me like your mom uses her negativity to influence the actions of those around her.


Definitely. She tries to manipulate by being hurt and disappointed. Unfortunately for her she drives me away by trying to guilt me into wanting to be around her. She is extremely in touch with her own feelings but oblivious to her impact on others. Still, I want to be a good daughter (within reason). She does her best.


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## FarmTownGirl (Feb 18, 2021)

sokillme said:


> What about the party is it that you don't like?


Well, there is going to be a party, just not for a few months. But everyone really wants us to do one so I surrender. I'm nervous about family traveling so far to see me and there being so many people there's hardly any time to spend with anyone. We live in a small town and a lot of people we know casually want to come -- I like them fine, but I'm an introvert and really just put up with parties.

Getting back to my mom though - She will be there, of course. But here's how the last big party that she came to went:

She arrives and sits at a table with her boyfriend and a couple of my most boring neighbors. She got "hurt" when I went into the house for 10 - 15 minutes to help out (as hostess...) My then boyfriend had 3 couples from out of town that traveled hours to be there. He is talking with them, manning barbecues, fetching people drinks.... He came over and said HI to my mom a couple times, but didn't sit down.

My mom complained that he didn't spend more time with her and when I explained he was cooking and had a lot of friends from out of town she said "you spend your time with the people you want to be with." (as in she is obviously not important to him). Even after the party she complained a few times and when I defended him she said "He had time to sing karaoke." "He was talking to Jeff who he can see any time." I felt guilty about not helping out more (our party was at a friend's house) and neglecting the guests from out of town because I was babysitting her. And she was disappointed anyhow.

Her boyfriend on the other hand had a great time and my husband said he snuck over and drank beer with my husband a bit.

The whole thing just stresses me out. I need to remember that these are adults we are dealing with, they are choosing to come, and they will make sure they have a good time.


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