# double whammy....



## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Wow.... Been a rough couple days since I found out. Hope this will help. Here it goes:

Wife and I dated for 5 years. Generally a very good time, little trouble with jealousy on both parts of friends of the opposite gender but no cheating. Were married (1999) and continued to have a good relationship. Those who knew us said we had a perfect relationship, etc... Of course the trouble started when we decided to try to conceive (2003). We tried, and tried, and tried, nothing happened. We saw our doctors and did the initial tests which showed everything was fine, no reason why we couldn't. Of course during this time all of our friends were getting pregnant, having babies, and our mental health (especially my wife's) plunged. She withdrew, become despondent, said she ruined my life, that she was an utter failure. I tried to reassure her I didn't blame her and wanted to help her or help her get help. She withdrew more. Partying became a staple in both of our lives to escape. Her to escape her feelings of guilt and uselessness, me to escape the despair of seeing your wife spiral out of control and not being able to stop her. During this time she started spending more and more time with a mutual friend. At first, of course, I thought it was fine. I would rather her be with someone I knew as a friend when she was out and about so they could keep an eye on her, I trusted both of them. As time went on (at least a year, so 2005) I realized I couldn't do it anymore. They were together all the time, other people were accusing them of having an affair, asking me how I can stand it, etc... I confronted both of them on numerous occasions to fess up if anything was going on but of course they both denied. After a year to year and a half the wife made a breakthrough, wanted to work things out, was tired of running away from problems, etc... Of course I welcomed her with wide arms. I wanted my wife back! We went to counseling for a couple sessions but neither of us were good at it, didn't want to think we had problems that big, whatever.... I basically swallowed everything up, took her word for it that it never was sexual, just emotional (which in many ways is worse) and I basically gave her a get out of jail free card.

So, we gradually start putting things together. We decide to stop worrying about conceiving and become foster parents. We were very lucky that we were able to adopt our first two placements (2007-2008) and in 2009 she gave birth, a home birth nonetheless, to our daughter. Wow! Awesome..... I thought. Just this past weekend (2012!!!!!! after 7 years!) a friend who knew of the whole truth tells me my wife had a physical affair with our so-called friend. Knock-out. I'm blasted. Utterly devastated. I had worked so hard to get over this, never really did (and I'll take some blame for not forcing a reconciliation the first time) but now I have to go through all of this again. And she does too! She doesn't want to rehash this time of her history. I know she was depressed about the infertility (seen many couple break because of it) I know she is genuinely remorseful, she is disgusted with herself, etc... 

So now I am grappling with being extremely angry and extremely sympathetic with her. I want to scream and yell, to punish her, to make her hurt but I want to pick her up and make all of her pain go away as well. I love her, I believe her when she says she loves me. We are going to try to work this out, we know we should have a long time ago, but this time we want to do it right. 

It has only been a couple days and we are both still in shock. In October we will celebrate (hopefully) our 13th anniversary. We have three awesome kids ages 3,4 and 5. A house in the country, horses, dogs, cats, chickens, a rabbit. Good friends, good family. And a load of **** to work through. 

I really don't know why I joined this board but just typing this out seems to help. Now if I can push the post button...


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

This is rough but in the end, she is still to blame.

Don't say it was only depression as you had a rough time too during that period and you didn't cheat. She kept that secret for so long from you. She will say it was not to hurt you but that is wrong. It hurts so much more now after you've come this far. 

It was manipulation. Who knows what would have happened if she admitted it before, but at least you would have had a choice to not let it come this far to 3 kids. I would say she used you for all these years with no guilt. 

It is up to you to see if you can live with that.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She isn't in shock, because she knew all along that's she cheated.

So for her this old news and a crime which she feels she got away with. Hence why she doesnt want to talk about it honestly.

For you, it just happened. It is now a new fact that you deserve to finally have both the truth and the emotional support you need to deal with knowing your wife chose to betray you.

What about the OM? Has she kept him in your lives? If so then that shows a deep lack of either respect or care for your feelings. Keeping him around would be humiliating to you.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

He's been out of the picture since she decided to end it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is not shocked, she is just caught. Of course she would not want to discuss about it.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How long did the betrayal go on? She will try to lie and minimize as much as she can. Get the complete truth out, as much as it hurts. You ignored it once and look where you found yourself.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

3rd child is yours by birth?


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

OK you cannot let her get away with not talking about it. That is called rugsweeping and nothing will get resolved.

Does this POS have a girlfriend or a wife? Is he still involved in your life? 

Let me ask a question that will hurt. Is the baby yours? You have to find out. Her swearing to you does not cut it. She has lied to you all these years, decieved you. 

She also has to answer all of your questions with honesty and not bs or trickle truth


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## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Sad news. Never let another man spend time alone with your wife just to keep her company. That's your job. 
What made this other friend decide tell you about the affair now? And why didn't they tell you as soon as they found out back then?



> I know she was depressed about the infertility (seen many couple break because of it) I know she is genuinely remorseful, she is disgusted with herself, etc...


Don't make excuses for your cheating wife. When does being depressed mean having sex with other men??? She spent the whole year being "depressed" and having sex with your "friend". I doubt they even used protection. She is only disgusted because she got caught. 

You were depressed but did you cheat? She cheated because she wanted to. Be sure to remember that and also make sure she owns up to it.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Clarifications: she is talking about it, the third child is mine, other friend found out one year ago when my wife's lover spilled his guts on a drunk


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You are far more sympathetic towards her than I would be. The fact it happened and is now in the past makes no difference to YOU. To her it does because she's had years to come to terms with it.

She needs IC to figure out why she did what she did. Once she's done that, you both need MC to work on repairing your relationship. You should also seek some IC or at least start dong a bunch of reading on how to heal from the trauma of infidelity. You cannot do so unless SHE does a whole whack of stuff she isn't going to want to do.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Agreed I am too sympathetic. She does claim full responsibility and does not deny any of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

YOU NEED TO DIVORCE HER AND LEAVE!

Listen to me. You get 1 life (there may exist an after life) but 1 life for sure on earth here. You can either stay and remain depressed, hurt and unhappy and realize you are living with a liar who lied to you for YEARS! and destroyed your marriage and did everything that many religions on earth say is the worst thing to do that merits an individual to "hell"... Or you can LEAVE tough it up, be alone for a time being but overcome the hurt and MEET someone NEW, who is truly deserving of you.


I do not understand how anyone could wish to stay with someone who hurt them so badly. You are stronger than this, you might state "your heart loves her" but in reality its your mind telling you that you need her. The truth is the human mind is very powerful and you can overcome this and live a better life. She wants you now and is afraid you might leave, ITS BEST YOU DO LEAVE! Than you will be free of the narcissistic liar.



I wish you best of luck. 


I hope you can find happiness but realize its unlikely if you stay. Trust me man


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

With three young kids knd of tough to pack up and leave.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sorry you are here. Only you can decide what is correct for you. You need to look objectively at the situation, though. There is the affair and there is the deception that has gone on for so very long. Here are my thoughts

1) As the affair at least appears to be over, don't *make any hasty decisions*. You will be going through a rollercoaster of emotions
2) *Your wife must do the heavy lifting*. Absent consequences, your marriage is doomed anyway. Don't forgive and forget. (you can't really anyway)
3) *Absolute transparency *is a must. Cell phone, email, key logger, and even consider a VAR just to assure yourself that nothing further is going on.
4) *You need to read Not Just Friends*, by Shirely Glass.
5) *She needs individual counseling *to sort out her boundary problems. Please understand. She is a selfish broken person. She needs significant work before you can move on
6) *Marriage counseling when the time is right*. Wait a little as your emotions are raw at this point and real work can't begin. Be careful on who you choose. If they haven't read _Not Just Friends_ and don't know who Dr. Shirley Glass is, RUN!
7) Many may disagree, but *I would favor exposing the affair *to family and those friends who didn't know already. Doing so enlists them in the protection of the marriage from future infidelities.
8) *Start working on you*. You need to exercise., work on your self image. Read the man up threads and understand that no one and no situation is to blame for this except your wife. STOP MAKING EXCUSES.
9) *Be prepared to divorce (and she needs to know that you are capable of living quite well without her)*

Finally, although I hate to bring this up, How do you know the kid is yours? I mean really know? And don't give me the "it looks like me" thing.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

There are several of us who have worked through infidelity and come out actually better with our partner afterwards. You don't need to DIVORCE HER automatically. 

But do NOT just stay for the kids. BIGGEST MISTAKE EVER. You and she will both end up miserable, and your kids will suffer. Kids are not better off when parents stay together except in exceptional circumstances and with exceptional parents. Both parents. And anyone who cheats is NOT an exceptional person.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She is not shocked, she is just caught. Of course she would not want to discuss about it.


Mmm, well... she could be in shock.

Knowing you cheated and r_eally_ *knowing* you cheated are two different things.

Also, it could be a shock seeing how broken and hurt your BS is.

Well, they'd expect their BS to be upset, but to see a normally strong person crumble, shake, scream and so upset they can't eat? The result of their actions might cause shock.

Also just being found out can do that, too.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Here is an idea: Give her all the onus.

Outline everything, how you came to her with your suspicions, how she lied and downplayed them. How you tried to help her with her depression etc.

Then ask her how exactly she was going to prove to you that this could not happen again. SHE needs to make the list. She needs to educate herself on how to fix this. She needs to figure out whom she is going to tell. (Make sure you suggest this little gem so she can't ignore it)

Then you pull out the DNA self test kit and hand it to her so SHE can swab your child's mouth. Yes, I know you know KNOW *KNOW* it's yours. That isn't the point of the exercise. She will say something like "But I ended that relationship X years ago!"

The proper response is "What is _your_ word worth to me right now? And even if that's true, that's just _him."_

This is to let her know exactly how little trust you have in her right now and exactly how hard it's going to be to reclaim it. This is to immunize against some trickle truth.


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## tonyarz (Sep 15, 2012)

wow, that is a tough one. I would bail out if I was you. I stayed with my cheating Ex for 8 years and I thought about what she did daily. It literally ate away at me.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Some tough responses! I found out Friday and confronted her Sunday. Obviously I'm on a roller coaster. I told her that she has to regain my trust, win me back, and prepare tomoffer some compensation and that i don't have answers how she can do that. We are still in the same house raising our three kids. I haven't taken off work and have been able to maintain there but may need to get away...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

anotherone said:


> Some tough responses! I found out Friday and confronted her Sunday. Obviously I'm on a roller coaster. I told her that she has to regain my trust, win me back, and prepare tomoffer some compensation and that i don't have answers how she can do that. We are still in the same house raising our three kids. I haven't taken off work and have been able to maintain there but may need to get away...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay at the house. Sleep in the barn if you have to. You can't give up squating rights.

I'd be interested to hear about how this nonsense happened.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

JCD said:


> Stay at the house. Sleep in the barn if you have to. You can't give up squating rights.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear about how this nonsense happened.


They ALL happen the same way.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So sorry for your pain.
My STBXH also suffers from depression/anxiety for years. First, it will impact their thinking, but they are NOT incompetent. A person in the throws of depression becomes ridiculously self-centered. But you have to remember that remain 100% responsible for the actions they take. We started MC because, which he stopped because his response to every instance of pain I would relate, was "I'm sick, you need to get over it." His treatment towards me and the kids became worse. To this day he refuses to accept any responsibility for his multiple EA/PAs. He's rewriting his life's history and telling family we merely fell out of love. I've corrected him and told the truth, he still says, there are two versions of the truth. Only if that means one version in which he engaged in multiple acts of infidelity, and then the fantasy where he admits no wrongdoing.
I guess my babbling here is to remind you not to give your wife a free-ride because of her depression. It is not a get out of jail free card for infidelity, that is on her.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I don't think it's been mentioned yet, she must go NC with the friend


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm sort of curious how the OM relationship ended. Did it end because you were a pill or did she do it on her own?

In the later case, she gets a marginal amount of more credit.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

what is "nc with a friend?"

she ended it on her own and cut all ties.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

You need to make sure you know the whole story now and the details. You don't want to find out more stuff later and get put right back to day one again later on. Once you have that then its going to take time for it to sink in (months) so I wouldn't do anything extreme for a while until YOU decide if this is a deal breaker or not. Even if she never cheats again what she did will never go away and years from now it will still bother you.

She needs to be constantly apologizing to you for this. What she did was sh!tty and she needs to really understand that.


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

anotherone said:


> Some tough responses! I found out Friday and confronted her Sunday. Obviously I'm on a roller coaster. I told her that she has to regain my trust, win me back, and prepare tomoffer some compensation and that i don't have answers how she can do that. We are still in the same house raising our three kids. I haven't taken off work and have been able to maintain there but may need to get away...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Friend - I'm sorry you find yourself on here. I won't welcome you to the club because it is my sincere hope that you won't be staying around here too long!

There are two great books that helped both me and my wife after the discovery of her affair. They are:

"How to help your spouse heal from your affair" (this book does an excellent job of helping you identify what you're feeling and be able to express what it is that you might want to see your partner do to help you recover from their affair - even better if she voluntarily reads it too).

"Hold on to your N.U.T.s: the relationship guide for men" (sadly, your marriage did not go bad overnight. You are 50% responsible for the poor state of your marriage. Your wife is 100% responsible for her decision to cheat. This book will help you figure yourself out and give you tools and techniques to be a better man).

I sincerely hope that you'll consider reading both of them and that, if you do, you'll find your need to come on here and be exposed to the radically different opinions of what you should do (divorce, reconcile, separate, hire a detective, get her to take a lie detector test, cheat on her too etc, etc) becoming less and less.

Keep your head up. You've been hurt - deeply - finding out about this kind of betrayal is akin to suffering a trauma - that's why it is called "D Day" - not just because you discovered it, but because it is an overwhelming assault on you.

I'd also recommend finding a local support group where you can talk to other men. There are many churches that provide this kind of platform and you don't have to be a Chrisitan to attend.


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## WalkingInLight (Aug 14, 2012)

ArmyofJuan said:


> ...Even if she never cheats again what she did will never go away and years from now it will still bother you...


Friend - it takes, on average, 2 - 3 years to recover from an affair and one day it can, "go away." Or better said, you can remember it without the crippling pain.

Lets ensure that in our desire to help others, we don't leave them feeling as though there is no hope.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

A lot of responses seem to focus on humiliating the betrayer. Eventhough she humiliated me, I don't see the sense in "paying her back."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

For your own true peace of mind, have the paternity tests done on all 3 of your kids. They may be all yours but you'll never know for sure till that's backed up by science. The test is cheap.


on edit: Have the paternity test done on your last child.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

anotherone said:


> A lot of responses seem to focus on humiliating the betrayer. Eventhough she humiliated me, I don't see the sense in "paying her back."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



No, not really about the betrayer. It's more about getting yourself in a state to make the right decision.

You know for sure your wife can lie big time.

You know the marriage you thought you had was an illusion.

It's about you getting as much info on the actual situation as you can. If you have to press really hard on your wife to get it, I think you should.

If you feel that's humiliating your wife, why would you let her get away with humiliating you with her affair(s)? You shouldn't.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

anotherone said:


> A lot of responses seem to focus on humiliating the betrayer. Eventhough she humiliated me, I don't see the sense in "paying her back."
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Another nice guy.......

Its time for you to read "no more mr nice guy"

Asking for truth is not humiliating its your right to know the truth. She is alier and a cheat, she may have broken it on her own but the fact remains the same she cheated on you, lied to you on your face even when you confronted her. Now you very well know that she is capable of lying in your face without a wink. She lied to you and made you to live a lie for more than half of your marriage.

By the way do the DNA test.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Oh boy. You are about to sweep the affair under the rug much better than your wife. You do realize one thing, do you? She never confessed. She was caught. She kept lying and denying until the moment she got caught, inspite of your repeated pleas to come clean!! She kept having the affair right in your face. First step to repairing the marriage is to make sure that she isn't hiding anything else. That is not humiliating her, it is getting thr truth out so that you can decide according to the truth. You cannot tell the doctor half truths and ask him to treat you for the disease. It will just get worse.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Until you can look at her in the eyes and tell her every bit of pain her actions caused you, neither one of you can recover. To do this, you need to know everything, and she has to admit to it. This is not an attempt to humiliate her, only to deal with the infidelity honestly.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

anotherone said:


> what is "nc with a friend?"
> 
> she ended it on her own and cut all ties.


no contact, good that she cut off all ties

click the newbie link in my signature for abbreviations, terms and other help


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Clarification: first two kids we adopted, third is biological.

Excellent point that she did not come clean.

I have asked difficult questions of her and she has answered them. I will keep asking questions until am satisfied with my picture of the whole thing. Maybe I am reading between the lines because subconsciously I want to beat her down (not physically mind you).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

anotherone said:


> Agreed I am too sympathetic. She does claim full responsibility and does not deny any of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course. Thats her trying to rug sweep this. She did this years ago, shes over it, suffered no consequemces, now that she got busted she wants to get it over with quick. Children suffer from parents mistake, if you leave her, too bad, your children will take it better than you or your wife, but if you Reconcile make sure the ground is set for a solid foundation. There are many prerequisites for R
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Has she told you how long, many times, where etc?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

DNA test and absolutely STD tests on you and her. Make her show you the report on her tests. Some diseases can have no or subtle symptoms for years. Protect yourself. Go to a clinic that specializes, not just your primary care doc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Geez I just reread my story!!!!!

Any way the thing I learned is when my oldlady had her 1st she broke it off and went straight for a a long time, 5 years or so. That was seven years in. Any way 13 years went by and she has had her share of affairs.

My point is the both of you need to open this can of worms and understand it...especially her! This point is important cuz she needs to affair proof her marriage so the next time she "feels depressed" about some other issue down the road, she handles it better then the 1st time.

Real important that she gets this.....what is she doing to affair proof her marriage?

You guys are rug sweeping here....I know I've been there. It isn't until lately that we both are working on our selves and being emotionally healthier then we have been for the last 23 years of marriage.

Until she face this and owns it and learns, she is doomed to repeat years from now. Trust me on that. God for bid a death in the family happens. Someone very close to her passes in a few months. What will prevent her from dealing with this (also hard issue) the wrong why again? Maybe it won't be years that it happens again....maybe months.

She has alot of work to do on her self and hidding from it won't help you, her or the kids!!!!!!!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Study this with her

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm not insulting you, but I'm gonna be frank because if a few harsh words can stop you from making a huge mistake, I'm gonna give em. 

You are being a pus*y right now. 

You're caring more about her feelings than your own after she had an affair. 

I can tell from your post thats positively dripping with sympathy and rationalizations for her affair that you fully intend to reconcile with her, and you're on the edge of rugsweeping this. 

Reconciliation is not easy. If you want it to work you're gonna have to build the relationship anew and its gonna take some hard hearted actions to do it. 

If you don't, you will be in false reconciliation with one partner resenting to other, destined for a miserable marriage or divorce.

Firstly, you need to man up. Stop making excuses for her affair. She was depressed, she was infertile, her horoscope was off that day, yada yada all bullsh!t. There was no excuse whatsoever for her affair so stop justifying is.

Secondly, you need to expose. You need to expose to parents, and family what she did. 

You may think you're 'humiliating her' slap but you're not. 

Its called having consequences for her actions. For more than a year she lied to your face. While you were confronting and pleading she didn't break down from guilt or sadness, she kept up that facade up 100% and you haven't processed what that means. 

No matter how much she may have loved you, she did not respect you enough to confess. She did not respect you enough to allow you to make your own decisions for yourself. She lied so you wouldn't leave her. No matter how you slice it, THAT IS MANIPULATIVE and you need to let her know that that will not be tolerated. 

She didn't even confess either. She was wholly content to get off scot free and continue the marriage with you being none the wiser. 

Ask yourself, is this the kind of attitude you want your wife to have?

She needs consequences for her actions. Its that simple. If you let her off the hook, she won't realize the gravity of what she has done. setting you up for ANOTHER affair in the future anytime things are rough.

Thirdly, You need to wise up. Right now you are eating up any excuse and any crap that comes out of her mouth as absolute truth. Cheaters are liars. FACT. Therefore from now on everything she says must be verified because shes already proven that she rather lie to avoid strife. 

You say she is shocked, you say she doesn't deny it. 

Well why should she? For her the affair is something she compartmentalized and boxed off in the back of her mind years ago. 

The sooner you stop talking about it and the sooner things go back to normal the better as far as shes concerned.

Shes already made her peace with it, so you need to wake her the fvck up. 

Lastly, stop talking from the position that you're not going anywhere. She needs to know that you aren't defined by your marriage. That if she does not show true remorse, get to the bottom of WHY she cheated(if you don't know why then she WILL do it again some day), and fix it then you're out. Don't stay in a marriage for the children, thats the worse thing for them. To observe parents who can barely manage to be cordial for 5 minutes in the same room together. 

Reconciliation isn't easy. My ex fiance was not interested in any of the necessary prerequisites so I broke it off before the wedding. 

The best analogy is a house. When your wife had that affair she steamrolled it to the ground. Now you cleared the wreckage and saw that the foundation can still be used to build another house but has a crack in it.

So you can either A, build the house while ignoring the crack in the foundation and hope the house doesn't come crashing down one day because of it.(rugsweeping)

Or B, get to the bottom of that crack, fix everything thats wrong with it and then and fill it before building the house.(true reconciliation)

The choice is yours.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

^ Good post



the guy said:


> Until she face this and owns it and learns, she is doomed to repeat years from now. Trust me on that. God for bid a death in the family happens. Someone very close to her passes in a few months. What will prevent her from dealing with this (also hard issue) the wrong why again? Maybe it won't be years that it happens again....maybe months.
> 
> She has alot of work to do on her self and hidding from it won't help you, her or the kids!!!!!!!!!


Agreed


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

If you go to the "Long Term Success in Marriage" section, you'll find a post by a gentleman whose wife cheated on him a while back in a long term affair in which the wife claims she was semi-blackmailed.

When it was revealed, she threw up, confessed everything, and started doing things like revealing everything to her family, contacting the OW to apologize and she calls her husbad EVERY FRIGGING TIME she leaves the house. He knows every password to every device she owns, uses, or thinks about.

She did this on her own. It SEEMS to be working for them and all he says he did was get counseling and forgive her.

So that technique CAN work if what he says about her is true and I see no reason to think he's lying.

BUT!

For every story we read like that, we have three stories about historonic wailing women (and men!) who are JUST SO F*CKING SORRY! And yes, they really are sorry...for now. Then in 3, 4, 5 years down the road, they become 'sorry specimens' again because they are making the beast with two backs with some other scumbag.

Which is why I said: WHAT IS *SHE* doing to fix things? Wailing, saying she's sorry and tears are all well and good...and the sorry and remorse lasts as long as the tears take to evaporate.

HER ACTIONS are what matters. Is she asking after counselers HERSELF? Is she OFFERING to tell her family what despicable actions she's done? Has she revealed which friends covered for her if any? Has she outlined the details of her crime? Not a thrust by thrust scenario, but how long, how many times, how did it start, where did it happen, WHY did she break it off?

That shows remorse. Not soppy tears which are blurring her vision as she is trying to negotiate the lowest price on 'forgiveness' that she can get.

BTW, that WHY is rather important. You say she cut it off. Besides questioning her honesty, assume she did cut it off.

Was it because she was feeling guilty?

Was it because she was bored with the relationship?

Was it because friends were getting suspicoius?

Was it because he was getting too clingy?

Was it because he was getting bored with her and she wanted to retain her dignity?

Was it because you were becoming burdensome with your questions and the sex wasn't worth the danger?

See how few of those motives are really exculpatory? Granted, she'll probably go with the easiest first one...

I'm not trying to fire up your suspicions....actually, considering how quick on the trigger you are to DAMPEN your suspicions, yes I am.

She f*cked around on you a LOT and lied for a LONG TIME. Don't let her off easy on this.

You can always ease off. If you go soft now, she'll throw "I thought we were over this" at you.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

excellent points throughout. thank you for the responses, even the ones that call me out! thanks for doing that.

She has answered the where, how many times, for how long questions. she has answered very pointed questions about the details of their sexual contact. 

I have told her that not telling me the truth and for keeping it from me was in no way "protecting" me nor keeping me from hurt but actually compounded the damage and made it worse. I am not quite sure she really gets this point...

I asked her what her plan is to regain my trust and she answered "to be 100% honest and to give you all the time you need..." 

I am trying not to dwell on the subject every hour of every day but you know how hard that is. I have also contacted a counselor to set an appointment.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

anotherone said:


> I asked her what her plan is to regain my trust and she answered "to be 100% honest and to give you all the time you need..."


Wow...way to sacrifice. So she isn't actually DOING anything.

Granted, she probably has a small idea of how bad the lashing out etc will be and she's volunteering to be a (metaphorical) punching bag for an undisclosed time. But I'm willing to bet that the time it takes YOU to get over it is probably a bit longer then her fortitude.

How does she plan to show you she is '100% honest'? You thought she was before.

She needs to do some research. The MOST you should do is suggest she do research, because she ain't doing so hot here.

And YOU shouldn't have called the frigging counselor! Why didn't SHE suggest it? Why didn't she call a whole bunch of people to find out the BEST FRIGGING Infidelity Counselor in your state?


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

It is a counselor for me. I told her to contact one for her, which she hasn't done yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Individual counselors have been shown here to often rubber stamp their clients "feelings". I would suggest a MC with infidelity experience for you both. Don't be surprised if her IC blames you.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I want to point out that while she may be trying to act like it was far in the past and over and forgotten by them, It's obviously still on the mind of the OM that he talked about it.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

"The wounds of love can only be healed by the one who made them."

Pubilius Syrus Ancient Roman.

No, I'm not pretentious. (Okay, maybe a little) I was looking up a Roman quote for something else and I saw this one. It seemed apropos.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

anotherone said:


> excellent points throughout. thank you for the responses, even the ones that call me out! thanks for doing that.
> 
> She has answered the where, how many times, for how long questions. she has answered very pointed questions about the details of their sexual contact.
> 
> ...


So you mean shes going to sit on her ass and do nothing but be a willing recipient of your inevitable lashing out?

Thats nothing. Remember my friend, ACTIONS not WORDS. 

If words were material, the only thing they'd be useful is wiping my bum with. 

When a spouse is remorseful, they will do THE WHOLE NINE. 

They will research books, get their own counseling, offer up all their passwords to everything, will call you and let you know where the are multiple times a day and come back earlier than the time they said they would so the BS feels no worry. 

They will make at least 20+ hours of weekly undivided attention time for their betrayed spouse. No matter how much it throws a monkey wrench into their schedules, they will do it and without complaint.

They will also do ALL of this without having to be told, and will do this without expecting the BS to praise them along the way. 

And know what, thats just a start. 

Your wife is doing nothing. She is not remorseful.

She may be feeling guilty, but she is not remorseful. 

They are not the same thing.

Like a thief steals from someone, and he may feel guilty about it. Thats not gonna stop him from stealing again though, it just makes him feel bad temporarily.

Remorse is when a person changes himself. Like when a drunk turns their life around and becomes a fully functioning person. when a convicted prisoner in for manslaughter finds god in prison and does nothing but good for the rest of his days to atone after he is released.

Guilt fades away eventually. Remorse changes a person at their very core. I was a smoker several years back. My GF hated it and gave me an ultimatum to stop because she wasn't going to raise a child around me if I was smoking. My GF meant more to me and I felt bad about putting her in that situation so I got a patch and in a few weeks I was off cigs. Haven't smoked once since then. THATS REMORSE

If you don't get remorse, you're not getting squat. 

One thing DO NOT TELL HER THIS. 

Just watch, watch and see the days go by and watch her do nothing. Don't remind her about the counselor see if she does that herself. 

When she does nothing. When you have to ask her or she won't give it then you have your answer my friend. I wish you could read Tears thread in the private section cause THAT is the ideal picture of a truly remorseful spouse who is willing to do whatever it takes and MEANS THAT. So maybe it'd be a good idea to post around in a legit way so you can see. 

When you compare her to your wife, I think the difference will be night and day.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

how do you get to read anything in the private section?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

anotherone said:


> how do you get to read anything in the private section?



30 posts or become a forum supporter (aka donate)


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

what are your thoughts on telling other people? family, friends, etc... we have a mutual friend (our midwife who delivered our youngest) whom we both feel comfortable with and who has mediated in the past if we had a dispute (which are all null and void now since we know that my wife's infidelity and hiding it was the root problem).


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you print off the wayward spouse instructions and read them with her?


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

i had her swing by my work after she picked up our son from pre K and get them. i asked her to read them and we could discuss later. they are very good and were spot on with my emotions. thank you


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Well, I the wayward spouse instructions opened her eyes! Before I left work I texted her to see if she needed anything and her response was "Im si ck." A lot of tears throughout the night while trying to put on a happy face around the kids. No real talking yet but your words explained the enormity of our situation. Thank you. Now, for today....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Stay strong buddy.

You have been given some great advice.

Hold your wife accountable and at the same time keep dealing with the issue.

I think you can have a great again but you both have to want it.

And it needs to be based on mutual respect and honesty.

HM64


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

This little book has only 100 pages.
How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful
There's also e-book version aviable at the autor's page: Here
Another "must read" book for both you guys is: *Not just friends*, by Shirley Glass.

Then you both should make a plan to improve the marriage; marriagebuilders has a tons of good material: Her needs, his needs and Love busters come to mind.
The five love languages is a another must read.

Then, just for you, I recomend you start reading
Married Man's Sex Life


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Thanks for the recommendations. 

I am trying to get the details of her affair. It started over 7 years ago and has been over for at least six, so getting them is a process. She has either pushed them out of her mind (what she is telling me) or just dragging her feet. Hopefully the former! It is weird that I believe that she has been faithful since ending it. Of course how faithful is living a lie? She has offered passwords, her phone, etc... but I'm really not interested in them. There's nothing there about an affair that happened seven years ago! I don't even wonder who it is when she gets a text. 

I have experienced some intense moments of arousal (all of my senses have increased) but just don't want to have sex with her right now. Is this typical? How long did you wait to have sex again, if ever?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The sex is called hysterical bonding, you can google it for details, buts it's very normal.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

22 years reconciled, never got the whole story of my wife's affair. Too late now, I never could.

You have to find a way to rebuild trust. For me part of that was understanding why she fell into the affair so we could establish boundaries to avoid a repetition. I am assisted by the fact that my wife is basically a decent woman. There are some women who feel no guilt at having an affair, all that matters is not to be caught. If my wife had been such a woman we could not have reconciled.

You have been advised to expose. I don't necessarily agree with that. How does it help your relationship to destroy her reputation amongst all your friends? I told my wife's parents so they could support her.

You have been told don't stay for the sake of the kids. Well that's what I did and it turned out ok. But if you do stay for the kids, work on the relationship.

And finally....it will always hurt. It gets better, a lot better, but the pain never totally goes away.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

anotherone said:


> I am trying to get the details of her affair. It started over 7 years ago and has been over for at least six, so getting them is a process. She has either pushed them out of her mind (what she is telling me) or just dragging her feet. Hopefully the former! It is weird that I believe that she has been faithful since ending it. Of course how faithful is living a lie?[/size]


There are some ways of getting to the truth. For starters she could submit to a polygraph to show that there was only one affair and that it was only during that time period. Polygraphs can be quite good if done by a top notch person, but they are not perfect. Done by a lousy person they can be useless or worse. So it is not an easy decision. Do your homework and then find a highly recommended polygrapher.

This should give you confidence that she has told the truth about it being just the one affair during that specific time period.

Next, you can have her write out in detail the timeline as she remembers it. I think that going back slowly and taking maybe a week to work on it she should be able to dig up a lot of details. Her affair was a big event to her, so she will have memories.

Talking about it with a therapist might help her remember. A good therapist who does hypnosis as part of their practice might help her remember more. If the two of you explained what the goal was, the therapist could ask questions with you quietly watching.

She may in fact be blocking some memories, but they should be there as long as you aren't asking for too much detail.

Don't assume you can detect her lies about what she remembers or not. She was capable of hiding the whole thing from you!


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Almost two weeks from DDay. I have a pretty good idea of the "complete picture." Wife has been very open about details but still fuzzy on a couple (exact number of times and location of each time). I know the first time was in my house......ugh. I have asked very detailed questions about the act itself. Either she is very good at acting disgusted or she is genuinely sick at herself thinking about her doing that. I have asked the same questions several times and in several ways and see no discrepancies in her answers. I do know she was going through an awful time, she was depressed about our fertility problems, she was drinking heavily, eating little, puking a lot, and having sex with someone else. I am not making excuses for her and she is not making them for herself. I feel confident in saying that she did break off the affair about six years ago, the only problem is that she maintained it was an emotional affair and that she never slept with him. She has owned up to the fact that she is 100% responsible for her infidelity and she actually feels better now that it is in the open and she doesn’t have it “in her gut” all the time. She is doing a decent job at the "i love you, i'm sorry, i'll never do it again" reassurances and coming up with some seemingly heartfelt ways to say it. Of course she is eager to get out of this discovery/shock period and on to healing but she understands that I dictate the timeline and she is not pushing me. I have recently asked her to pen a letter in which she comes clean to me (I found out from a third party). Only broke down into the "fetal position wail" once yesterday! Feeling pretty good now, but you know how that can change at any time. I realize that our marriage has not been very good since her affair. We swept it under the rug (the so called emotional affair) and I always held resentment. I am willing and wanting to attempt reconciliation. I will start IC on October22. I have formulated a work out plan and will put it in to action on Friday. I will wait until I am satisfied that I have the whole picture of the affair and then get in to the nitty gritty of her winning me back, showing total and complete remorse, and in some way (don’t really know how) she shows me that she will never run away from me when times are tough. 
One thing that I am wondering about is compensation. I don’t know what I want but feel that I deserve something. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this? Any other suggestions about my situation?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Cheaters lie!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

anotherone said:


> I realize that our marriage has not been very good since her affair. We swept it under the rug (the so called emotional affair) and I always held resentment. I am willing and wanting to attempt reconciliation.


You have to let go of the resentment as much as possible. She will have put up barriers too because of guilt. I don't have any magic answers, but my advice is just be both very open about your feelings, while being sensitive to each other.

This board has a lot of betrayed spouses and in my view it can be harsh on cheating spouses. Your wife has her own hurt. If you love her you won't want that...the tragedy is your hurt too.



anotherone said:


> I will wait until I am satisfied that I have the whole picture of the affair and then get in to the nitty gritty of her winning me back, showing total and complete remorse, and in some way (don’t really know how) she shows me that she will never run away from me when times are tough.


It can't be done. Your wife had an affair once, she could have one again. You could leave her and the next woman could have an affair. 

The truth is your wife lied to you and did not come clean (bad news) but that she did end the affair herself (good news). That is her character. She's not perfect. She's human.

What you can do is agree boundaries with each other that might have prevented the last affair, be open.



anotherone said:


> One thing that I am wondering about is compensation. I don’t know what I want but feel that I deserve something. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this? Any other suggestions about my situation?


I don't understand this question. Are you thinking she should bring you breakfast in bed every day for the next ten years or something?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> Cheaters lie!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course. 

So do we all go and live alone in a cave, just so there is no risk of anyone else letting us down?

Life is risk.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> Cheaters lie!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


People lie! Cheaters just have a lot more motives to do so.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You can't get 'even'. Imagine you are in a lifeboat with your wife. She just shoved a pole through the bottom of the boat. Do YOU put another hole in it to 'let the water run out'? No.

What you do is insist if things go to the bottom of the ocean, you get the only life preserver.

You MAY be able to fix it, but that doesn't mean you don't protect yourself. It could be a post-nup. It could be her signing over all interest in your farmhouse, putting it outside any future divorce proceeding.

But even that has a quality of you having one foot outside the door, ready to run. If she loses hope, the marriage is done. You know her best. At the very least, she needs to expose herself to friends and family.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

anotherone said:


> Almost two weeks from DDay. I have a pretty good idea of the "complete picture." Wife has been very open about details but still fuzzy on a couple (exact number of times and location of each time). I know the first time was in my house......ugh. I have asked very detailed questions about the act itself. Either she is very good at acting disgusted or she is genuinely sick at herself thinking about her doing that. I have asked the same questions several times and in several ways and see no discrepancies in her answers. I do know she was going through an awful time, she was depressed about our fertility problems, she was drinking heavily, eating little, puking a lot, and having sex with someone else. I am not making excuses for her and she is not making them for herself. I feel confident in saying that she did break off the affair about six years ago, the only problem is that she maintained it was an emotional affair and that she never slept with him. She has owned up to the fact that she is 100% responsible for her infidelity and she actually feels better now that it is in the open and she doesn’t have it “in her gut” all the time. She is doing a decent job at the "i love you, i'm sorry, i'll never do it again" reassurances and coming up with some seemingly heartfelt ways to say it. Of course she is eager to get out of this discovery/shock period and on to healing but she understands that I dictate the timeline and she is not pushing me. I have recently asked her to pen a letter in which she comes clean to me (I found out from a third party). Only broke down into the "fetal position wail" once yesterday! Feeling pretty good now, but you know how that can change at any time. I realize that our marriage has not been very good since her affair. We swept it under the rug (the so called emotional affair) and I always held resentment. I am willing and wanting to attempt reconciliation. I will start IC on October22. I have formulated a work out plan and will put it in to action on Friday. I will wait until I am satisfied that I have the whole picture of the affair and then get in to the nitty gritty of her winning me back, showing total and complete remorse, and in some way (don’t really know how) she shows me that she will never run away from me when times are tough.
> One thing that I am wondering about is compensation. I don’t know what I want but feel that I deserve something. Anyone have any ideas or experience with this? Any other suggestions about my situation?


One quick observation. Anotherone, re-read your posts. Look at the amount of work you have done to reconcile (a lot) and look at the amount of work your wife has done (next to nothing). What is wrong with this picture? SHE CHEATED, so she should be doing cartwheels to try to win you back, right? Is she doing this? No. She is paying lip-service to R, and hoping it will all blow over. Where is the remorse? Where is the self-loathing? But most importantly, where is the love and respect for you? If I were you, I would proceed with plans to divorce and possible co-parenting. Possibly she will then begin to actively do the heavy lifting that your marriage will require to recover.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

At the very least, you've been telling YOUR story quite well.

Are you glossing things over? What else is she DOING, not SAYING?


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Wazza said:


> Of course.
> 
> So do we all go and live alone in a cave, just so there is no risk of anyone else letting us down?
> 
> Life is risk.


I guess you don't asses that risk and make decisions accordingly? My point was, most likely she is LIEING and he deserves to know the truth, so he can decide if the risk is worth the reward. Good God, I didn't even mention anything about a cave.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Wazza: good point about giving up the resentment. i want to but can not at this time. i posted in another thread that for me, reconciliation would allow me not to react to any and all criticism with "so what, you had an affair!" 

i really don't know about the compensation but just feel like i deserve something! the wife is an excellent cook and during her "escape time/affair" she still cooked almost daily for me. she would even admit that cooking for me is the only thing she could do for me at that time. i don't know if it should be a one time thing (wouldn't mind a new banjo... or a daily, weekly whatever.

jcd: i don't know if i am glossing things over. a lot of the time i don't know what the hell i am thinking, doing, going to do, going to think, when i will find myself in a ball on the ground crying or screaming at the top of my lungs. she definitely doesn't get this. i keep telling her that i don't think she really gets the enormity of the situation. we have not exposed this to anyone. i am thinking of telling her she has to at least tell one friend (it is obvious she would tell a mutual friend of ours). 

any comments on exposing?

i hear you badblood.....


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

You still don't get it. 

YOUR WIFE IS NOT GOING TO CARE. 

Let me explain. For her the affair is some incindent she filed off in her brain more than half a decade ago. Why should that illicit strong feelings from her now?

Also you say she doesn't get the enormity of the situation? :slap:

Well why the hell would she? You haven't done anything and you haven't exposed. 

IF a child is playing with fire and never burns himself or gets scolded, why exactly should he give a damn about his actions?

You don't need to just expose, you need to go nuclear.

After having her affair 6-7 years ago she has received NOT ONE consequence of her actions. She has shown no remorse and simply wishes to rugsweep and get back to the status quo as soon as possible and wishes you would 'get over it'.

And you are her accomplice. You are helping her rugsweep. To face this you need to make it where it can't be ignored. 

There are multiple ways to do this. Last time I checked its pretty hard to rugsweep when the betrayed has booted their wayward out of the home. Read Sick's thread in here. He ignored her, blew her off and gaslighted her until she FINALLY kicked his ass out. Now he is begging, and while thats not true remorse its a start to get R or D on the table. 

Don't just expose, GO NUCLEAR. Family, parents, friends EVERYONE gets told. Exposing is ALWAYS the right thing to do under any circumstances. And going nuclear forces the wayward to deal with this, and it always helps. 

Also you need to confront the fact that she did not tell you at all. You have to confront that. I've seen some spouses where after their affairs they felt so guilty they had to tell their husband/wife. Some do it the next day. Your wife? 6-7 years of lies and she never once felt guilty enough to tell you. And some of these cases where the wayward breaks down and tells end in divorce. But you know what? At least they respected their spouse enough to give them a choice in the relationship. They could've buried it and lied to their spouse's face everyday like your wife did.(lie by omission, every single day she woke up and did not confess is her telling a LIE)

But no, they had something called integrity. That it would not be fair or right for their spouse to live in a marriage that is a sham due to their actions. 

You wife had no such respect for you. She also had no such integrity. All she was thinking was "I don't want MY life to change, so I won't tell him and he won't have that choice"

She was A-OK with having her affair be buried in the sand, and wasn't going to tell you about it anytime soon.

Is this the kind of wife you want? To lie to you when it suits her? Thats what you have now. Shes proven that everyday of your marriage. You really can't believe a word that comes out of her mouth so I find it very sad you are taking her word for it when it comes to the details the affair.

You are taking the word of a PROVEN LIAR as truth. 

You need to go nuclear. Tell everyone, not just one friend of her choice. Thats nothing, that changes nothing, is nothing but a stopgap cop out for you, so YOU don't have to man up and take real action. Old mittens found out his wife cheated, Day one manned up and left and already started filing papers. Wife immediately went into remorse mode. Show her consequences. Until she sees them, shes never gonna realize just how big a can of worms she opened with her affair. See how she reacts and then you will really get your answers and she will finally have to show you TRUE remorse and not just talk a big game. Words = sh!t from a cheater's mouth. You need actions and actions where you don't have to tell her or hound her to do them. Its either that or shes out the front door.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

thanks danielfom.... come on! who else? give it to me!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Knowing you cheated and r_eally_ *knowing* you cheated are two different things.


I don't see the difference. 



anotherone said:


> what is "nc with a friend?"
> 
> she ended it on her own and cut all ties.


NC = "No contact"

I am sorry this happened to you. Seeems your gut was right. (It is a common occurence).

The bottom line is: she needs to address your concerns/questions if she really cares about you. Make that clear to her. It's not fair for her to have cheated and betrayed you and then to want to rug-sweep. It's wrong. How would she feel if you did that to her with a mutual friend. Egads.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

anotherone said:


> thanks danielfom.... come on! who else? give it to me!


So what are gonna do?

This stalemate, nonagression pact, whatever you and your wife have right now will eat you up and you'll die a little bit inside everyday by being near your wife.

Time to roll the dice. 
Once its been cast, sh!t is going down, one way or another. 
There will be no fence sitting, no rugsweeping, none of that if you go nuclear. 

All it takes is a simple call. A quick "I think you should know that currently our marriage is (fked up, ruined, destroyed. etc. Make a stand. Not "we're having trouble" or "theres a problem". None of that weak stuff) because 6-7 years ago my wife had an extramarital affair and she never told me. I had to find out from a third party. 

I'm still figuring out what I want to do whether its to reconcile or divorce, but I think our situation should be known"

That divorce part will get back to her from mutual family/friends right quick. And this 'playing dumb' and 'I don't understand' crap that shes doing is gonna end when she finally starts feeling the heat of the hot water shes in. 

And then call the next person and say the same thing. You don't have to give them the skinny. Just she cheated, and I'm still figuring out what to do. 

If anything happened or someone did something bad, you'd tell someone else right? What makes her affair any different?

Answer: Nothing.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

So I decided to go to a caterer's website.

A whole hog roasted for 75-100 people costs about $525.

I went in this direction because you mentioned she's a good cook and I was wondering how many rump roasts a screw was worth. It seems like a pretty cheap price to me...

**

Here is the conversation I'd have. And you acting like we're piling on you isn't helping matters at all. If you had any frigging clue, you wouldn't be here in the first place. It isn't our fault that you don't like what you're hearing.

If you want to rug sweep, have the bitterness burn in you (YOU were the one who asked for compensation) then by all means, do so. Here's a broom. She's totally remorseful, she'll NEVER do it again, she still has the same amount of respect for you, and she didn't enjoy what happened AT ALL! After all, you shouted at her and made her life difficult when she was having sex with the friend. If she was enjoying it, she'd quit...oh...wait... 

Well, she sort of did quit, so she's not totally a waste of space (but like I said, you have no idea about the motive)

You decide you DON'T want to rug sweep? You want compensation? You want what the Merchant of Venice was cheated out of? Read on.

This is what you say:

"X days ago, I found out you were a murderer. You shot and killed our old marriage and the body was just dug up. You didn't confess to anyone. You took a shovel, dug a hole and buried the body.

Now you want to pretend it never happened. You want forgiveness because you shot our marriage 7 years ago and you've been good since then.

Well, let me tell you. You didn't shot our marriage 7 years ago. You shot it last week. That's when I found out. It happed last week to me. YOU may have gotten over it, but I certainly haven't and the statute of limitations hasn't run out.

So here is what we're going to do. You will go to MC and we'll try to fix this. You'll go to IC and you'll keep my appraised of what that person says. I get to vet your counselor. 

We try to make this work.

But first, we're going to visit your parents, my parents and all our friends and *YOU* will tell them that you cheated on me, whom you cheated on me with, how long it lasted and how many times it occurred. I will tell them that since then, you've _seemed_ to have cleaned up your act and we'll try to make a go in a NEW marriage. A marriage where you aren't treated as automatically trustworthy. I won't hang this over your head forever, but you lost the right to not answer my questions about who you're seeing and where you are going. You've given up the right to privacy.

Because you lied for 7 years. If you want me to hear and feel your apology, this is what you have to do. Otherwise 'I'm sorry' just means 'I'm sorry you found out.'

For a felon to get a suspended sentence, they need to admit their guilt to a judge first. That's our family and friends.

So what do you want to do?"


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

Its gonna take real action Another. 

No stopgaps, no half measures, no asking her what she wants to do. 

You gotta come out with it 100%.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you shjould think about the exposure question. Exposure is used here to break up an affair, not punish someone for a past transgression.

The Wayward spouse instructions may work however. Not sure about the affair being over so long. There have been quite a few threads here similar to this. 

Just trying to get over it htpough doesn't work.

One book is After the Affair. Have you read it.

Everyman needs to read MMSL also.

Let me know if you need the wayward spouses intructions list.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

^ I disagree. Its not punishing. Its revealing

Their marriage is on the rocks because she had an affair, thats just the fact of the matter.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

anotherone said:


> thanks danielfom.... come on! who else? give it to me!


Your marriage has been a lie this whole time and you are going to let her get away with cheating on you. You may not feel like that today but in a couple of months its going to hit you like a ton of bricks, especially when you see she is all talk and no action.

She should be thanking her lucky stars you even acknowledge her existence.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

anotherone is asking for 'compensation'. He wants a sense that she isn't getting away scott free, because if he doesn't 'get' anything, that's what will have happened.

He can't 'get' anything, but she can put her money where her mouth is by exposure.

But going back to my ORIGINAL POST, you should be asking HER what SHE will do to make you feel whole. So far, all she's ****ing said was she'll 'be patient' (while you get over your snit fit) and be 100% honest (because you can verify this with your magical home polygraph machine...)

She has done nothing. Why aren't you asking her this question? What exactly do you have to lose?

Okay, start small. Ask her to write down how she thinks you feel and what concerns you have. See if she's anywhere NEAR where you are in empathy.

God, the more I'm on this site, the less and less impressed I am with the so called 'empathetic' gene in women. That 'relationship' magic women claim? BS!


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

here are some of her responses (in quotations after relevant article info) to an article she read on monday:

However, the unfaithful spouse often has no idea what to do, or how to behave, in order to help rebuild trust in the relationship. "I feel at a loss about what ELSE to do. Please remember that I am trying " 

about transparency "I am being as honest as I know it. I've spent a lot of time pushing those details out of my mind. It's taken a lot of review on my part to conjure the ugly memories. It has been a LONG time since I've thought about that. I honestly can't remember some things. The things I do remember I am telling you."

being around: "I will continue to do this and try to work harder to be more available. I do anticipate my needing a few times to do things away from the house though. let me know what you are comfortable with."

getting defensive or assign blame: " I hope that you don't get the impression that I blame you at all. Last night I was trying to address something else entirely, but it didn't come out right, and you got mad, and that's why I backed down. I don't blame you at all for my behavior. I don't feel like you did anything that "made me" do what I did"

the fact that you chose to betray your partner rather than to raise the issues and work on them in an honest way is 100% your fault. "I own up to this."

"Please know that I NEVER felt justified. I always did and still do feel terrible and sick about what I did"

It is also important to show and tell to other people how much you care or love your partner, this will help your partner to overcome all the humiliation that may have been caused but will also more than likely make you feel a little better about yourself. "I see this specifically as a valid point - to verbalize my love for you to other people. I will actively work on this. I know it can be hard to pull other people and things to the surface with our kids and daily life. I will try harder to show you how valuable you are to me."

transparency: " I feel like I am doing this and have been doing this for a long time. I only had the lock code on my phone to keep the kids off of it and I've since taken it off after all of this has happened. If you want to look at anything, ask me and I'll tell/show you. I truly have nothing to hide, and that makes me happy. I feel so much better knowing it. I hope you believe it, but tell me what I can do to help you feel better about it. The fact that it has been my own choice has made me more comfortable with my exisitence with you."

"I will tell you what I know and remember. Even though it's been a long time for me, I will keep it in mind tht this is all fresh to you. I am sorry."


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

There are only two valid responses in all she said.

First, that she doesn't know how to fix this. What is she doing to remedy that? Has she picked up a single book? Has she talked to a single counselor on her own? 

Second is the transparency thing. That is pretty basic. But full points for doing it.

What you neglected to mention is her response to the idea of exposure, at least to family members. ADULT family members.

The other question is why didn't she reveal it herself? Why did she have to let you find out from a third party, from all things having the OM bragging about it while drunk! Whom else did he tell? Does she have any idea how humilitating that is?

She might be telling the truth. And she might be telling a lie. Or she could mean it now, and change her mind when she feels she's paid enough but you don't feel that way.

**

Just to clarify: what was the deal with the cooking? Did she cut you off from sex or something but still cooked for you? What was that all about? When did that happen?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

You wife needs to read this:

Affair Recovery: Forgiving Infidelity: The High Price of Forgiveness | Affair Recovery


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

anotherone said:


> here are some of her responses (in quotations after relevant article info) to an article she read on monday:
> 
> However, the unfaithful spouse often has no idea what to do, or how to behave, in order to help rebuild trust in the relationship. "I feel at a loss about what ELSE to do. Please remember that I am trying "
> 
> ...


This may seem overly critical, but I did not like this. 

"I feel at a loss about what ELSE to do. Please remember that I am trying " 

Uh huh, you're trying. Seem to have put more effort into hiding the affair and keeping it under wraps than trying. 

"I am being as honest as I know it. I've spent a lot of time pushing those details out of my mind. It's taken a lot of review on my part to conjure the ugly memories. It has been a LONG time since I've thought about that. I honestly can't remember some things. The things I do remember I am telling you."

Nice mini pity party. Also shes being as honest as she knows how. Hmm, thats reassuring. 

"I will continue to do this and try to work harder to be more available. I do anticipate my needing a few times to do things away from the house though. let me know what you are comfortable with."

Jesus Christ, that didn't take long. Didn't even get far and already bargaining with the betrayed spouse about her needs. 

"I own up to this."

Yes

"Please know that I NEVER felt justified. I always did and still do feel terrible and sick about what I did"

Tell her to understand that you can't fully take her word on that. Her words may say she felt terrible about it but her actions of lying for 7 years certainly don't give it any credit.

"I see this specifically as a valid point - to verbalize my love for you to other people. I will actively work on this. I know it can be hard to pull other people and things to the surface with our kids and daily life. I will try harder to show you how valuable you are to me."

Thats good, hopefully she follows through on that. 

If she has been talking about doing transparency for a long time in that last paragraph, I don't even want to be the one to touch that one. Maybe entro or someone can handle that.

"I will tell you what I know and remember.(Ergo, whatever she pleases) Even though it's been a long time for me, I will keep it in mind tht this is all fresh to you.(implying that you're new to it and will eventually get over it like she did) I am sorry.(Yep, thats why you had to find out from someone else)"

What a can of worms that is.

Also what does she think about exposure(Not her idea on what to do, thats YOUR CHOICE and no one elses. See if she will willing expose to family or if she wants to keep her indiscretions under the rug) and ask her if she was so sorry and feeling bad about it, why didn't she confess?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

> "Please know that I NEVER felt justified. I always did and still do feel terrible and sick about what I did"
> 
> Tell her to understand that you can't fully take her word on that. Her words may say she felt terrible about it but her actions of lying for 7 years certainly don't give it any credit.


Actually, you can. She had this affair. What happened after she dropped the hot stud?

You were there for B.A. (Before Affair) and A.A. (After Affair).

Was there a sizable and credible difference between her quality for wifeing and her accessiblity (i.e. transparency)?

If she became a Stepford wife after the affair, then you have SOMETHING to see that she channelled her remorse in a way that paid you dividends.

If there was no appreciable difference...well...

Look....cows! (Wanders off quickly)


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Sbrown said:


> I guess you don't asses that risk and make decisions accordingly? My point was, most likely she is LIEING and he deserves to know the truth, so he can decide if the risk is worth the reward. Good God, I didn't even mention anything about a cave.


Of course you assess the risk, that was my point.

I suspect everyone lies. You just have to judge each person. To me, saying "cheaters lie" is unhelpful in doing this. I think there is a significant difference between a wife who had an affair, lied about it, but was otherwise moral and decent, vs a skank who bar-hops every Saturday night and only cares about not getting busted.

So how can you say she is most likely lying? What could she say to convince you she was truthful?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> "I will continue to do this and try to work harder to be more available. I do anticipate my needing a few times to do things away from the house though. let me know what you are comfortable with."
> 
> Jesus Christ, that didn't take long. Didn't even get far and already bargaining with the betrayed spouse about her needs.


What is the alternative? She cannot remain a prisoner in the house, it has to be managed.



Danielfom said:


> "Please know that I NEVER felt justified. I always did and still do feel terrible and sick about what I did"
> 
> Tell her to understand that you can't fully take her word on that. Her words may say she felt terrible about it but her actions of lying for 7 years certainly don't give it any credit.


Agree her word has to be suspect, but her position is not unreasonable.



Danielfom said:


> What a can of worms that is.


Ain't that the truth. Affairs suck.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

anotherone said:


> Almost two weeks from DDay. I have a pretty good idea of the "complete picture." Wife has been very open about details but still fuzzy on a couple (exact number of times and location of each time). *I know the first time was in my house......ugh.* I have asked very detailed questions about the act itself. Either she is very good at acting disgusted or she is genuinely sick at herself thinking about her doing that. I have asked the same questions several times and in several ways and see no discrepancies in her answers. I do know she was going through an awful time, she was depressed about our fertility problems, *she was drinking heavily, eating little, puking a lot, and having sex with someone else.* I am not making excuses for her and she is not making them for herself. I feel confident in saying that she did break off the affair about six years ago, the only problem is that *she maintained it was an emotional affair and that she never slept with him.* She has owned up to the fact that she is 100% responsible for her infidelity and she actually feels better now that it is in the open and she doesn’t have it “in her gut” all the time. She is doing a decent job at the "i love you, i'm sorry, i'll never do it again" reassurances and coming up with some seemingly heartfelt ways to say it. Of course she is eager to get out of this discovery/shock period and on to healing but she understands that I dictate the timeline and she is not pushing me. [rest deleted]


The bold above does not make sense. If it was an emotional affair and no sex, why was the "first time" in your house? "first time" for what? That she started the emotional affair? That does not make sense. An emotional affair is gradual and I doubt if anyone can say accurately when it started.

So, what it looks like to me is that she's still covering up and minimizing her affair. I wonder if she's only admitting to what you know. I'll be curious if the affair had gone underground since your "friend" just recently slipped it out.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

chapparal said:


> I think you shjould think about the exposure question. Exposure is used here to break up an affair, not punish someone for a past transgression.


This is my view also.



Danielfom said:


> ^ I disagree. Its not punishing. Its revealing
> 
> Their marriage is on the rocks because she had an affair, thats just the fact of the matter.


How does revealing help?


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

How does not revealing help?

Also puts her money where mouth is. 

All shes done so far is talk talk talk, and by now we know her words are worth as much as horse droppings. 

OP isn't ever going to let go of his resentment unless he feels the proverbial score is evened and all the cards are out on the table.

So far, she cheats on him 7 years ago, and now hes the one doing the doing most of the R work?

Thats a recipe for failure.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> How does not revealing help?
> 
> Also puts her money where mouth is.
> 
> ...


Not revealing avoids social awkwardness and allows them to heal. 

Evening the score looks suspiciously like punishment or revenge to me.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> So far, she cheats on him 7 years ago, and now hes the one doing the doing most of the R work?
> 
> Thats a recipe for failure.


Lot of similarities between my story and OPs. I don't consider my reconcile a failure.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Fwiw I didn't expose to family and friends and wife still demonstrated remorse. It's not always needed. Not sure yet if that's the case here.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Have you contacted your (I hope) ex friend and wished him well? Although you may be better served telling him what a shetbag he is.

Was he married at the time or in the same relationship as he is in now?

If so you need to tell his wife/partner about the affair she deserves to know as much as you deserved to know about your wifes cheating.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

As far as hiding the affair goes, 80% of affairs are never discovered. I doubt many of the 20% that are discovered are discovered because the wayward spouse gave his/her partner the sordid details. Its human nature to hide shameful acts that they have committed. That has no bearing on how remorseful/repentant that person is.

You may not be able to get over this even if she is a wonderful wife. However you may be able to save your family too. Your best bet is to see a counselor with experience with PTSD. Check around and be sure the counselor fits. Do not hesitate to drop one you do not like. 

Also, go to this link and print off the instructions and go over them WITH your wife. Although this is generally used for current affairs but it may just help. Its about the 11 post down.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sided-need-perspective-please.html#post534068

Do not count the PTSD, its very important to realize how bad this affects one.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Not revealing avoids social awkwardness and allows them to heal.
> 
> Evening the score looks suspiciously like punishment or revenge to me.


Waz, forgiveness isn't a free pass. In almost every site devoted to reconciliation, there has to be some form of punishment or restitution made by the WS to the BS. It can take many forms, and one of the most profound is for the WS to admit the affair to family and friends, as both a form of restitution and a gesture of good intent. Your idea of non-disclosure smacks a lot like rug-sweeping and avoidance.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> Fwiw I didn't expose to family and friends and wife still demonstrated remorse. It's not always needed. Not sure yet if that's the case here.


AR, it is of course situational, but she has yet to demonstrate any remorseful actions and this might be a way for her to , at last , begin to understand the enormity of her past actions.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Lot of similarities between my story and OPs. I don't consider my reconcile a failure.


After reading your story, Waz, with all due respect, I would consider your R as an armed truce, rather than a complete reconciliation. It has always seemed to me that you were settling for less than a full marriage.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Waz, forgiveness isn't a free pass. In almost every site devoted to reconciliation, there has to be some form of punishment or restitution made by the WS to the BS. It can take many forms, and one of the most profound is for the WS to admit the affair to family and friends, as both a form of restitution and a gesture of good intent. Your idea of non-disclosure smacks a lot like rug-sweeping and avoidance.


Hey BB, welcome back, how is Chicago? You and I have had this discussion before. Agree to disagree. 

Not saying anyone gets a free pass, but neither do I believe in excessive punishment.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> After reading your story, Waz, with all due respect, I would consider your R as an armed truce, rather than a complete reconciliation. It has always seemed to me that you were settling for less than a full marriage.


Well, that's an escalation. You used to say we had communication issues, and I have agreed with you on that. But the notion of my marriage as an armed truce is ridiculous. 

Let's not threadjack. If you seriously think that, PM me.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

chapparal said:


> As far as hiding the affair goes, 80% of affairs are never discovered. I doubt many of the 20% that are discovered are discovered because the wayward spouse gave his/her partner the sordid details. *Its human nature to hide shameful acts that they have committed.* That has no bearing on how remorseful/repentant that person is.


This is why the WW can never remember WTH happened and how it happened. Once they decide to sit on and bury the affair, they rugsweep their own mind of the kinkiest sh!t they did with OM. it's a mind purge so the rationalization hamster can maintain the woman's self image as an almost upstanding wife and mother. They do retain some of the milder stuff to dredge back up when mental orgasmic assistance is needed.

OP, get your polygraph questions together. That's how your wife can help. You might also take her to a hypnotherapist if she still can't remember.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Aug: she claimed it was only an EA 6-7 years ago. I bought it, only to find out 2 weeks ago it was also physical.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

You know your wife has cheated, you know she lied about it. You know that if she cheated once, she is capable of cheating again. Any plan you form has to accept these unpleasant facts.

I believe EVERYONE is capable of cheating. A lot of people on TAM would disagree with that. You have to decide what you think, because it's a really important point. It means I think that if I were to divorce my wife, I am trading one person who is capable of cheating for another who is capable. So there's no point in searching for Mrs Perfect. I have to find Mrs Good Enough and work with her (which is what I am doing)

I don't know if you can come at that. Some years after my wife's affair I found myself tempted to cheat, and if circumstances had been different I think I probably would have..it came very close. That was a huge wakeup for me, it helped me to understand what my wife had gone through.

Your wife could be a serial cheater who is lying to cover her tracks and has no intention of being faithful in future, or she could be a decent woman who got into a bad situation and did something she now bitterly regrets.

So here's the decision you have to make. Her not admitting it all was certainly a deception, but you have to decide why she was deceiving you. 

During her affair my wife deceived me because she was trying to keep me at bay while she continued it. Later, she deceived me because she was so wracked with remorse. I can never 100% know that, but I have 22 years of history post affair supporting that belief.

Is your wife merely conceding facts she has to concede, or is she genuinely remorseful, and relieved at not having to hide things any more?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Hey BB, welcome back, how is Chicago? You and I have had this discussion before. Agree to disagree.
> 
> Not saying anyone gets a free pass, but neither do I believe in excessive punishment.


I'm doing great and living large in Chi-town!!! How you doin? I guess we will have to , because I don't see where owning your actions and being honest with family and friends is excessive punishment.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Badblood said:


> I'm doing great and living large in Chi-town!!! How you doin? I guess we will have to , because I don't see where owning your actions and being honest with family and friends is excessive punishment.


Owning your actions, fine. Why does that mean telling everyone every personal detail? 

For example, suppose a woman cheated because the guy had a one inch penis and erectile disfunction, suffered from chronic halitosis and BO, and was completely inconsiderate in bed. Should the couple confess to his failings as well as hers? If not, why not? Isn't there such a thing as too much information? 

As for "excessive punishment". Are you saying it's not punishment or not excessive?

I'm hurt at what my wife did, and she got plenty of grief from me in the aftermath of the affair. None of the grief I gave her made me feel any better though. Forgiving is what helped me to heal.

Meanwhile, she is haunted by her own guilt. She knows the damage she did and it hurt her as well as me. I take no joy in her sadness. I love her, I want us both to be happy. 

Life is too short for bitterness.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

I think you seem to be projecting.

I mean this with no offense. What happened for you is great, but so far the only thing OP's wife has been able to come up with is "I'm trying"

Also his family deserves to know how hes doing. His marriage is in the gutter, why exactly should he hide that? So she can keep up some self image of herself as being a respectable wife and person?

Like BB said there has to be something, some punishment or restitution. Maybe not now, but anotherone is going to be thinking,"Huh, she has her affair, gets off scot free, while I went through hell over it and shes flipping through magazines like nothing happened" This will breed resentment. 

And there are a lot of other scenarios that can breed resentment as well when the betrayed spouse knows of her infidelity but family and relatives don't and treat her like a saint.

Its not rational, but he needs to feel that the scores are evened before he can heal, because thats the kinda of guy he is. Saying he doesn't or its bad really isn't helping because thats not gonna help him get through this. 

So far shes done nothing but talk. 

Exposure does two things.

See if shes really committed to R. If she is owning up to what she did this should be no problem.

And 2, give him a support base other than TAM because his family and friends don't know anything and their obliviousness may make him rueful of his situation. 

"You're a really lucky man"

"I sure I am" (mentally: With my wife cheating on me and lying to my face and all)


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

> Like BB said there has to be something, some punishment or restitution. Maybe not now, but anotherone is going to be thinking,"Huh, she has her affair, gets off scot free, while I went through hell over it and shes flipping through magazines like nothing happened" This will breed resentment.


This. So much this!

I'm not sure exactly what she's doing except sitting patiently like a school marm saying 'I'll be waiting right here until you're ready to get over this thing." as if it's a dent in the car or a forgotten check instead of repeatedly giving her body and love to another man...while blatantly lying to and hiding it from her husband.

She said she's trying to figure out how to fix this. anotherone, has she picked up ONE BOOK? Has she called ANYONE?

No? Why not?

It's because she's over it and thinks you should be too.

Wazza, do you measure that as remorse?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> I think you seem to be projecting.
> 
> I mean this with no offense. What happened for you is great, but so far the only thing OP's wife has been able to come up with is "I'm trying"
> 
> ...


I'm not projecting. I'm offering my experiences as input to Anotherone while he figures out what to do.

I've said quite clearly he has to make a judgement on the character of his wife, and it would be naive to think that's an easy judgement to make, particularly given the stakes. I've said quite clearly that reconciliation is tough. Read my post 107 again.

As for punishment. Well if she's a decent person who made a mistake the guilt has punished her endlessly. My wife was like that. She was horrible while in the affair, but I have no doubt about her remorse after it, it's real.

And if she was a serial w h o r e....well, how much punishment do you think will stop a w h o r e being a w h o r e?

It's natural to want to even the score. In my anger I wanted to hit my wife. I didn't and I couldn't live with myself today if I had. It wouldn't have been helpful. The fact that you want something doesn't make it right.

Your point about support base is valid, but announcing to the world isn't going to achieve it. I told my wife's parents and a few friends about her affair. I got support from some of them. It ended a couple of friendships though, which is a good thing...I found out who true friends are. But to be honest, if you haven't been through an affair, I think it's pretty hard to understand what it's like.

As long as you remain trapped in bitterness over the affair, you're hurting yourself as much as your wayward spouse.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

JCD said:


> This. So much this!
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what she's doing except sitting patiently like a school marm saying 'I'll be waiting right here until you're ready to get over this thing." as if it's a dent in the car or a forgotten check instead of repeatedly giving her body and love to another man...while blatantly lying to and hiding it from her husband.
> 
> ...


I don't know if it's remorse. I don't know how many books she's picked up or how many people she's called. Nor do I think picking up books or calling people will undo the affair.

You don't know how many books she's picked up, who she's called, or what else she's done either. You don't know what's in her heart any more than I do. 

I'm not sure that the "expose and shame" orthodoxy on TAM is all that different from putting cheating spouses in the stocks in the village square and throwing rotten vegetables at them. I'm sure it would sometimes break marriages that could have been saved.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I'm not projecting. I'm offering my experiences as input to Anotherone while he figures out what to do.
> 
> I've said quite clearly he has to make a judgement on the character of his wife, and it would be naive to think that's an easy judgement to make, particularly given the stakes. I've said quite clearly that reconciliation is tough.
> 
> ...


She didn't make a mistake, she made a choice. Just like she made a choice to bury it and we don't know if the guilt has punished her either. 

Like I said, not much is known, that why exposing will help find out. 

Like I said I didn't say it was right or wrong, what matters is what OP wants to do. 


Also I have been through an affair. 

I never exposed her buried secret and was miserable. I told my family however and everything improved, I also found out which friends knew and were covering for her and cut them out. 


Yeah, you're right its not gonna work if hes 'trapped in bitterness'. Which he kinda is currently since he sounds like hes resentful about his wife having zero consequences throughout.

Something has to change that and from the stance OP's taking, I don't think he wants to just do nothing exposure wise like you and others have been suggesting. Since when did forgiveness become so expected and cheap? 

I think we really need Anotherone to post again so he can fully deliberate on what he wants.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> ...what matters is what OP wants to do.


I agree, and I don't envy him at all. I hope NEVER to be in that position again. It sucks.

P.S. I never said do NOTHING exposure wise. I said whatever is done must be done for good reason. I don't necessarily see punishment as a good reason, and I certainly don't see evening the score as one. Why not just have a revenge affair...that would even the score more if that's the goal.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

^ Because that wouldn't get him a support base, and how is her owning up to her bad choices punishment? 

Telling someone the truth of one's indiscretions isn't punishment unless they force themselves to see it that way. 

Is it punishment for a woman to tell her husband shes cheating on him?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I don't know if it's remorse. I don't know how many books she's picked up or how many people she's called. Nor do I think picking up books or calling people will undo the affair.
> 
> You don't know how many books she's picked up, who she's called, or what else she's done either. You don't know what's in her heart any more than I do.
> 
> I'm not sure that the "expose and shame" orthodoxy on TAM is all that different from putting cheating spouses in the stocks in the village square and throwing rotten vegetables at them. I'm sure it would sometimes break marriages that could have been saved.


Excuse me. You misunderstand me. I was going with exactly what YOU did. You said



> I told my wife's parents and a few friends about her affair. I got support from some of them.


So your assertion defeats itself. You DID reveal what happened...in a polite, respectful, non-shaming way.

I am not engaging in erotic vengence story reveals where the guy holds a dinner party with all their friends and relatives while wifey gets to make a speech on how horrible she is (dressed in red of course).

No. I am discussing doing exactly what you did. A respectful discussion. SHE NO LONGER GETS TO GET AWAY WITh HER ACTIONS.

Then it's over. Keep the list small but the parents should know. Friends? I'm a little iffier on that, but I'd certainly get from his wife who exactly of their friends knew, suspected and in any way enabled her. They would come right off the Christmas Card list.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Badblood said:


> AR, it is of course situational, but she has yet to demonstrate any remorseful actions and this might be a way for her to , at last , begin to understand the enormity of her past actions.


and I'm saying there isn't a huge rush to expose

I'm usually in the expose camp as well

but in this situation the affair is over for a while, so exposing doesn't serve to end it. She isn't in a fog and blameshifting and claiming the affair is OP's fault so it's not like you need to shock her brain into believing what she did was wrong.

She was given the wayward instructions and is willing to work on them, obviously after years of burying this she needs to go back through the muck and re-examine her actions but I'm not sure throwing her into the exposure pool is the best idea right now. If she decides to rug sweep after some time and doesn't follow through with helping OP heal then I would say to expose.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

JCD said:


> Excuse me. You misunderstand me. I was going with exactly what YOU did. You said
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Keeping list small and targetted,we agree.

"She no longer gets away with her actions" was never part of my thinking, nor was punishment. 

I told her parents because I thought the marriage was over and she'd need their support. I told three friends because I needed to talk, and lost two of them, but got good support from the other.

And of course I am talking about it like it was all very logical now, but I was a mess at the time and it was far from easy.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and to add, I get that you usually desire a quick resolution in terms of an answer of if she is willing to do the heavy lifting. And when you use an extreme method like exposure you will certainly get that answer but at the same time you also get the pain of conflict that goes along with it and when in situations where time is important and the WS is either still in an affair or is in the heavy fog then it is worth using that method and going through the trauma of exposure. In this case I don't think that drama is worth it right now if she continues to demonstrate improvement and increasing remorse.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Keeping list small and targetted,we agree.
> 
> "She no longer gets away with her actions" was never part of my thinking, nor was punishment.
> 
> ...


This. Why did you lose the two friends? If you had to do it over would you have told them?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

He says he needs something.

Telling her parents, the people most likely to forgive her in the world, is something.

HE needs something to get over this. He's said it. She gets sloppy fun illicit BF sex.

He got stuck holding the bag.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

JCD said:


> He says he needs something.
> 
> Telling her parents, the people most likely to forgive her in the world, is something.
> 
> ...


it will be empty in all likelihood


he's reeling just like any other BS does on Dday

it takes time and hard work by both the BS and WS to heal, the feelings of hurt aren't going to go away if he exposes and I doubt it will make him feel better about his R, unless he derives joy from hurting someone who hurt them first. For most people revenge feels empty and doesn't make them feel better. If it were to make him feel better to hurt her back then I would say to not R. 

Yes, she has to atone, face consequence, do the heavy lifting, etc in order for him to heal during R, but again I argue that exposure isn't the magic pill everyone thinks it is here.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

One thing you also need her to explain. Why should she expect you to believe anything she says after lying to you for 7 years? 

I still think you should get a paternity test on your bio child.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Actually, making her get a paternity test and a std test would help drive home the hurt he has incurred as opposed to screwing up a bunch of family/friend relationships with exposure. He also needs to know who knew about the affair.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

chapparal said:


> Actually, making her get a paternity test and a std test would help drive home the hurt he has incurred as opposed to screwing up a bunch of family/friend relationships. He also needs to know who knew about the affair.



this I agree with 100%


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

chapparal said:


> This. Why did you lose the two friends? If you had to do it over would you have told them?


I lost them because one, it turned out, was in an affair and feeling guilty and the other didn't want to take sides.

Dunno if I would tell them again, but the one in the affair was a very close friend and I should have been able to count on his support, so at least I know.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

I want to talk to someone about it. A friend. I made an appoi tent for a counselor but won't get in for another 30 days. We have a mutual friend whom we've talked to before about marital problems. This was friend was present during the affair, talked at length with both of us about our feelings during, after and everywhere in between. This is our best friend. To my knowledge she does not the wife's affair was physical. Of course the wife doesn't want to tell her... I don't know if it is shame, guilt, may e our friend knows the truth and my wife has lied to me about that as well. I told her I will need to talk to a friend. I am offering to talk to this mutual friend which wife trusts
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

the need to talk to a friend is fine and since it isn't being used as a hurtful or vengeful tactic but rather to help you get through the pain and have a trusted friend listen. I do caution to be very careful in talking with a OS friend and to keep appropriate boundaries.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

chapparal said:


> Actually, making her get a paternity test and a std test would help drive home the hurt he has incurred as opposed to screwing up a bunch of family/friend relationships with exposure. He also needs to know who knew about the affair.


I could see that as something. I suggested it early on at least the paternity test.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

JCD said:


> I could see that as something. I suggested it early on at least the paternity test.


Uh, me too. Just not as early on as you did.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> Owning your actions, fine. Why does that mean telling everyone every personal detail?
> 
> For example, suppose a woman cheated because the guy had a one inch penis and erectile disfunction, suffered from chronic halitosis and BO, and was completely inconsiderate in bed. Should the couple confess to his failings as well as hers? If not, why not? Isn't there such a thing as too much information?
> 
> ...


Come on, Waz, you're exaggerating. In most exposure scenerios , you don't have to give all of the gory details, that WOULD be a case of TMI. What she SHOULD say is that she cheated and is working on rebuilding her husband's trust in her. That's all that needs to be said. Owning her sh*t to family and friends (and taking the resulting heat) would go a long way to showing remorse and commitment. You have to remember that the OP's sitch isn't the same as your own.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Badblood said:


> Come on, Waz, you're exaggerating. In most exposure scenerios , you don't have to give all of the gory details, that WOULD be a case of TMI. What she SHOULD say is that she cheated and is working on rebuilding her husband's trust in her. That's all that needs to be said. Owning her sh*t to family and friends (and taking the resulting heat) would go a long way to showing remorse and commitment. You have to remember that the OP's sitch isn't the same as your own.


But then you did not try to reconcile very hard. It sounds like you are simply guessing.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

OP and OS?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Wazza said:


> I don't know if it's remorse. I don't know how many books she's picked up or how many people she's called. Nor do I think picking up books or calling people will undo the affair.
> 
> You don't know how many books she's picked up, who she's called, or what else she's done either. You don't know what's in her heart any more than I do.
> 
> I'm not sure that the "expose and shame" orthodoxy on TAM is all that different from putting cheating spouses in the stocks in the village square and throwing rotten vegetables at them. I'm sure it would sometimes break marriages that could have been saved.


Waz, I've reread the posts of this thread and nowhere did I find ANYONE advocating telling all of the details of the affair to the whole world, or pillorying the WS. You are an intelligent poster but you lose credibility by your wild-a** exagerations. Some of your advice is pretty much exactly what I said, YOU told some family and friends , too , didn't you? What's the diff? Come back down to earth, pal. Okay?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

OP= Original Poster

OS Not sure.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Goldmember357 said:


> YOU NEED TO DIVORCE HER AND LEAVE!
> 
> Listen to me. You get 1 life (there may exist an after life) but 1 life for sure on earth here. You can either stay and remain depressed, hurt and unhappy and realize you are living with a liar who lied to you for YEARS! and destroyed your marriage and did everything that many religions on earth say is the worst thing to do that merits an individual to "hell"... Or you can LEAVE tough it up, be alone for a time being but overcome the hurt and MEET someone NEW, who is truly deserving of you.
> 
> ...


He does not need to divorce her and leave. He needs to do what is best for him. Divorce may be an option, but he does not NEED to divorce her and leave.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> and I'm saying there isn't a huge rush to expose
> 
> I'm usually in the expose camp as well
> 
> ...


I agree with most of this, AR, but do think that limited exposure would drive home the point that to the OP , this is a new affair and she should treat it as such.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> it will be empty in all likelihood
> 
> 
> he's reeling just like any other BS does on Dday
> ...


Exposure isn't a magic tool but it is a tool and should be considered in situations where the WS isn't showing proper remorse or doing the necessary work to help the OP heal.


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## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Hi Anotherone,

This may seem to some to be irrelevant to the main problem but I still have some concerns over the OM. Was he in a relationship at the time he was humping your wife, and is he still in the same relationship?
As much as you deserved to know about the truth of the affair so would she.
Although many will say that the POSOM did not make a commitment to you, only your wife did, I would disagree in this case. He set himself up as a friend. Friends do not behave like that. I would be very tempted to phone him and tell him what I thought of him.

As far as exposure goes, normally it is done to blow the affair up and bring the WS to their senses. But as the affair ended years ago it might be pointless. But if the POSOM (it can help sometimes if a WW refers to the OM in a derogatory manner) is bragging to all and sundry about his 'conquest' you might be better pre-empting any harm he can do by performing a low key exposure.

You mentioned heightened sex feelings and whether you should make love. If you are comfortable with doing this then go ahead, it will help you heal, you may even (as some posters have mentioned) experience hysterical bonding, this will help you heal, and to 'reclaim' your wife.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I think what needs to be understood by Anotherone, is that he should be aware of ALL of the tools he can use to help him recover and heal from, what is to him , a new affair. Some of the tools that are used for an on-going affair or to get the WS out of the fog of an affair, "180" "letters of NC" etc will have limited or no value, but exposure of a limited kind, can be a very useful gauge, for him to determine how remorseful and contrite his wife is. It will also gauge her concern for and respect for her husband's feelings .


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Honestly, that may do the trick quite nicely.

Let his wife know that the OM is bandying around his 'conquest' if that is indeed the case. How many people know? Would she like to know?

This jackhole just put her marriage and her children in jeapordy.

Classy guy.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

WyshIknew said:


> Hi Anotherone,
> 
> This may seem to some to be irrelevant to the main problem but I still have some concerns over the OM. Was he in a relationship at the time he was humping your wife, and is he still in the same relationship?
> As much as you deserved to know about the truth of the affair so would she.
> ...


I agree with this to a certain degree, but would caution Anotherone, that hysterical bonding should not be viewed as a substitute for his wife addressing the underlying issues and damage , her affair has caused to his family.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

according to my source, the AP was very remorseful and sorry. breaking down and crying how he felt so awful. the kicker is our sons are in the same kindergarten class.... great huh? i haven't seen him since dday and i am kind of scared to. i will say something to him (i had confronted him several times during the affair 6-7 years ago and he always denied anything more than friendship) but i will not waste any energy on him at this point.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

With all due respect, Anotherone, the OM isn't your major problem, it's your wife's lack of remorse and unwillingness to do what it takes to R. Fixating on the AP will not help you with your marital issues. Remember my other post. Why isn't SHE asking about what SHE can do to regain your love and trust? Why are YOU doing the heavy lifting? She is the cheater and should love and respect you enough to WANT to do anything and everything to make it up to you. Are you seeing any of this from her?


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

yes, she is doing some of this. i was answering questions some had about the AP. i am in agreement with you that he, especially at this point, is a non issue.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

JCD said:


> OP= Original Poster
> 
> OS Not sure.


opposite sex?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

yes opposite sex


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> You still don't get it.
> 
> YOUR WIFE IS NOT GOING TO CARE.
> 
> ...





Badblood said:


> Waz, I've reread the posts of this thread and nowhere did I find ANYONE advocating telling all of the details of the affair to the whole world, or pillorying the WS. You are an intelligent poster but you lose credibility by your wild-a** exagerations. Some of your advice is pretty much exactly what I said, YOU told some family and friends , too , didn't you? What's the diff? Come back down to earth, pal. Okay?


Does going nuclear count as pillorying?

I brought up the question of detail in response to the argument that telling friends about the affair is some act of noble truth. My point was, if truth is the goal, why not tell all details, rather than limiting to a version tailored to embarrass the WS.

Go through the thread again, and see how many times the notion of exposure gets linked to "consequences", "punish" or "even the score". That's what I am picking up on with my analogy of the stocks.

Gotta go...wife wants a cuddle...that "armed truce" you spoke about sure is fun sometimes  Reconciliation is hard but times like this are when it is nice.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Enjoy yourself, Waz.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

Wow Wazza, nice way to take my words out of context.

Show me exactly where I said to give them the skinny.

Oh yeah, you won't be able to because I didn't. Also if you took more than one minute to copy and paste the barest essential for the quote you needed to make some kind of point, you would've seen a later post I made in this thread that depicted an example exposure in which it gave NO intricate details of the affair whatsoever so don't even try to peddle that I was advocating telling everybody every little thing about the affair. 

And family and friends = the whole world now? 

What a cheap shot.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> Wow Wazza, nice way to take my words out of context.
> 
> Show me exactly where I said to give them the skinny.
> 
> ...


Hey DF, I don't want to fight and I don't want to single you out.

Two separate points I touched on. How much detail and who gets told.

Who gets told you said family, friends, *everyone* - go *nuclear*. I think that's extreme. Those were your exact words. Perhaps you might like to clarify exactly what "go nuclear" means. You said it more than once.

I introduced the idea of how much should be told. I am not "accusing" you of anything on the level of detail that should be exposed.

I am unsure what you mean by "give them the skinny". Hopefully my comments have addressed that. If not, let me know.


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## Danielfom (Sep 27, 2012)

Now thats just semantics, 

Its pretty obvious by everyone I mean family and friends.

Does going out and making it known to the world and random people in the street even make sense? 

And nuclear isn't even extreme, its sudden. 

You accused me of the level of detail when you quoted my post in conjunction with BBs. 

Anyways, I'm not gonna argue the meaning of idioms in AO's thread, if you want to know you can google it.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Danielfom said:


> Now thats just semantics,
> 
> Its pretty obvious by everyone I mean family and friends.
> 
> ...


I think you are misunderstanding me and putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. That's ok. For whatever I said that has upset you, I apologise without reservation.

If you want to expose, go ahead. Don't be surprised if, under some circumstances, it is the act that destroys your marriage rather than saving it, because it makes life untenable for the WS. I've seen that happen. But you don't need to believe me.

And don't be surprised if a BS, hurt and angry, doesn't judges well and goes too far in exposure even if it is warranted.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Take it to another thread guys this one is getting hijacked


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## jameskimp (May 8, 2012)

If I was in your situation, I would leave. Yes there are 3 kids, history, but life is just too short too live with the resentment and this ultimate betrayal/lies.

She had no guilt/no burden in her chest until she got caught. Everything was fine for her and she would've denied it to the end. 

She lied to you all these years and you believe weeks of crying is honesty guilt? OF course, she wants your money and support. Transparency now is the stupidest thing ever.

The affair is bad enough, but the lies and deceit are so much worse. 

Enjoy the rest of your trigger filled life.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

jameskimp said:


> If I was in your situation, I would leave. Yes there are 3 kids, history, but life is just too short too live with the resentment and this ultimate betrayal/lies.
> 
> She had no guilt/no burden in her chest until she got caught. Everything was fine for her and she would've denied it to the end.
> 
> ...


Here is what was posted in his first post.

* She doesn't want to rehash this time of her history. I know she was depressed about the infertility (seen many couple break because of it) I know she is genuinely remorseful, she is disgusted with herself, etc... 

So now I am grappling with being extremely angry and extremely sympathetic with her. I want to scream and yell, to punish her, to make her hurt but I want to pick her up and make all of her pain go away as well. I love her, I believe her when she says she loves me. We are going to try to work this out, we know we should have a long time ago, but this time we want to do it right. 

It has only been a couple days and we are both still in shock. In October we will celebrate (hopefully) our 13th anniversary. We have three awesome kids ages 3,4 and 5. A house in the country, horses, dogs, cats, chickens, a rabbit. Good friends, good family. And a load of **** to work through. 

I really don't know why I joined this board but just typing this out seems to help. Now if I can push the post button...*

The poster is asking for help on how to save hsi family, forgive his wife and move on. 

Please try to help him. He has made his call and he nor his kids need poster trying to destroy his family with this kind of ludicrous speculation and evn going so far as telling him he has no idea what his wife is thinking.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Surprisingly I agree with chap. I think that divorce isn't anything the OP should even consider , right now. What he needs is some remorseful ACTIONS from his wife , not just words. Until she is an active participant in the R process, things aren't going to change much.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

Please elaborate on what actions she should be doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Have the two of you read any of the after the affair type books? The wayward spouse instructions?
When all of this was going on, did you ever believe them when they said nothing was going on? It sounds like no one else believed it.


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## anotherone (Sep 19, 2012)

We have read the wayward spouse instructions. No books yet, numerous articles found online, none as good as wayward spouse instructions, IMO. Yes, I believed them when they told me nothing was going on. Other people asked them what was going on, but they always professed their innocence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

The 5 Love Languages is a good book to read, not necessarily about infidelity but will help communication


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Anotherone, go to the Marriage Builders website. Dr Harley has some specific actions she can take to help promote healing and prevent a recurrance.


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