# Angry @ Alcoholism



## julia71

I'm separated from my husband, waiting very impatiently for my divorce. He's an alcoholic. In recovery I guess. Whatever. I don't even care. I suppose I'll get a bunch of crap for that statement, but here's the thing, alcoholism has ruled my life since I was born. My dad was one, two boyfriends were afflicted with it, and then it seems I married one... didn't know it when I married him though. He didn't get the signs, and aggressive, until a few years later. SO, I'm OVER alcoholism. I have no more time for it, no more patience for it, none. Sorry. It ruins, destroys, crushes, forever changes everything it touches. Even when the alcoholic stops drinking, the damage is already done. Oftentimes the damage is too much to forgive. The anger of what was done to those around the alcoholic by the alcoholic is so great, there is no way to forgive it and move past it. Alcoholism is an icidious disease that will eat away at every facet of every relationship that comes in contact with it. It is not worth my time. I'm am happier now that I am not in its presence. There is finally peace in my world, there are no eggshells on the ground, the air is no longer thick, I feel light and my mouth turns up. There is this noise that bubbles up inside me often and leaks out, I'm told it is laughter. I am breathing, full deep breaths. I am walking about my house, without explanation to anyone. It is a beautiful thing. If only I had known all this sooner.


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## CallaLily

My suggestion, even though you are divorcing, you have been effected by alcohol for so long with your dad, other boyfriends, and husband etc, so if you haven't already been, my suggestion is to find a local Alanon group and attend those meetings if you can. Could be beneficial to you. Good luck!


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## trey69

I second that about checking out some Alanon meetings. Also check out the book CoDependent No More by Melody Beattie, that might be helpful as well.


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## Laureen

You definately should start going to Alanon. Here is the thing. Alcoholism is IN THE MIND. It is how we (I am one) think. The act of picking up the drink and putting in my mouth and feeling the 'change' over take me, is how an alcoholic TREATS his disease. Before I drank alcoholically, I qualified for Alanon because I was raised in that environment and I definitely had the same thinking well ingrained in my mind. I did not see it way back then but today, I understand that I was 'alcoholic in the mind' before I picked up the drink. I did on occasion have a safe drink or two - into my late 20s. But something happened. One time when I took a drink, it had a profound effect and I cannot pinpoint what drink it was, but I know it was during a time in my life when I was dealing with an angry, manipulative, controlling, egotistical, selfish, alcoholic (my husband). I had begun to drink for the purpose of 'stress relief' and It slammed me! WHACK! I crossed a line and had not known it. Years later, I entered the fellowship of AA and I am an active member. I have learned so much about who I was BEFORE I drank like an alcoholic. I already WAS ONE in the way I think. I was RAISED to be immature and have inappropriate reactions to the world and the people in it. I grew up maladjusted to life. Not my parents fault. How could they have known any better? They also were raised maladjusted to life and they did not know that they were raising 3 alcoholic children due to the environment we were being raised in. 

My husband, who would not admit he is alcoholic (and it certainly is not my place to call him one) went to alanon for a while when I entered AA and saw that I was working on myself and he no longer could control me and he began to see I might develop some positive esteem. He believed he would do well to learn how to live with me. Well, he got educated. He learned that I am not the only problem the relationship. (Just as I learned that HE AND I both play a part in our troubles, but that I ALONE am responsible for the choices I made that caused chaos in my life - before I ever drank) IE... Why, (when someone is terrorizing me in my home and slamming fists on tables, screaming and yelling, never coming home, hitting me) did I stay!??? I stayed because I DON'T THINK RIGHT. I am maladjusted to life... I learned that a drink make the noise quiet and I could delude myself into thinking I was happy. OH CRAP!! It is NOT my alcoholic husbands fault that I am now alcoholic? Damn... 

Another thing my husband learned as he went to meetings of Alanon, was that it was NOT the program for him. Indeed, he thought like an alanon because they think like alcoholics! The difference is, an alanon does not treat their warped thinking with alcohol. But, over time they certainly might if they don't also grow up. He came into AA - and I never had to say a word about it. He watched me grow up and discover a whole new beautiful way of living life and he liked what I had and he wanted it. 

And that is what we do in AA. We learn to grow up and act like adults. How? The 12 steps of AA is a spiritual program. The sole purpose of the 12 steps is to produce a spiritual awakening as a result of taking the steps - in order - THE WAY THE Big Book SAYS TO DO IT (not the piecemeal BS people call AA today - golly they give AA a bad rap) with the guidance of a sponsor who has a working knowledge of the steps and lives a good life by applying the principals (steps) in ALL (not where it is convenient) affairs.

Alanon is a great place for YOU to learn the same principals. Becoming God conscious is amazing. Life becomes very peaceful. But, if you are ever having a desire to drink when things are stressful, or you need to 'loosen up to fit in with others' or to feel pretty, or to get rid of anger, or to nurse a grudge, etc... you may already have developed the problem with drink and don't even know it yet. 

Most untreated Alanons will either stay very angry people or go on to drinking themselves and hopefully will make it to AA. Treated Alanons can go on to have fabulous lives, with no anger! Because THEY also learn how NOT TO create their own chaos. 

I will pray for you and for your ex. I hope he is a PART of an active AA group and that he gets himself a Big Book sponsor. Someone who believes in the way the BB tells us alkies to do the work and affect great change in ourselves. 

People can change. You would not believe the great relationships I have with my kids today and I am not quite 3 years sober yet! They KNOW I am different and they absolutely trust me today!


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## phillybrokenheart

Julia71 - I am so happy for you! I too have come from years of addiction (not myself). I would suggest some Co-dependency reading, as I am doing. JUST TO MAKE SURE, I dont pick yet ANOTHER ONE in the future!!!

Best wishes to you and happy peaceful days ahead!!! 

Big Hugs ))))))


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## julia71

Been a bit since I've posted. Sorry 'bout that guys!!  Anyway, I've read the Co-dependent no More books - there's actually a couple others she's written as well. Very good books, very insightful. I was well aware of being co-dependent before I left my marriage. I had been in independent counselling for quite some time.  

I understand what is being said here about victims of alcoholics becoming alcoholics. It is definitely a common statistic. Thank you very much for your concern, but I can assure you that I do NOT use alcohol to mask emotion or "deal with" problems. I face my problems, I deal with them like a big girl - a grown up. I face emotion and deal with that too. I allow myself to feel emotion - all of it - even the ones that hurt. 

My parents did a piss poor job raising me - no emotion allowed in the house, etc. You say it's not their fault? Well, in my opinion it was their job raise me and they failed. So, at 17 I left home unprepared to be an adult, I had raised myself. I had to learn as I went after I left home. It was a hard road, but I've learned via VERY hard lessons how to face emotion and problems in constructive ways and ways that are acceptable in society. I DON'T USE DRUGS OR ALCOHOL like my dad, bfriends, husband. That's the ONLY thing I've messed up thus far - picking poor in relationships. So... now I'm correcting that.  

I attended ACOA for a while. And no, the ex does not actively attend any sort of recovery group... so I'm sorta waiting for him to fall off the wagon. He's coming up on 2 yrs sober... but that doesn't mean anything. I've seen them go longer, I've seen them go shorter. All I know, if they aren't actively recovering... they generally fall. In very rare instances they don't, but that's VERY rare.


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## OhGeesh

I can chime in too!!! I will never understand addiction NA or AA it's almost incomprehendable to me and I don't see that changing.

I've seen it first hand and been to the meetings too on a "family night" seems awfully cultish to me, but if it helps them that's great. I'm just not on board with any of it.


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## trey69

Julia, I'm happy you are carrying on with your own life, its really all you can do! Stay well!


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## wendylou

julia71 said:


> I'm separated from my husband, waiting very impatiently for my divorce. He's an alcoholic. In recovery I guess. Whatever. I don't even care. I suppose I'll get a bunch of crap for that statement, but here's the thing, alcoholism has ruled my life since I was born. My dad was one, two boyfriends were afflicted with it, and then it seems I married one... didn't know it when I married him though. He didn't get the signs, and aggressive, until a few years later. SO, I'm OVER alcoholism. I have no more time for it, no more patience for it, none. Sorry. It ruins, destroys, crushes, forever changes everything it touches. Even when the alcoholic stops drinking, the damage is already done. Oftentimes the damage is too much to forgive. The anger of what was done to those around the alcoholic by the alcoholic is so great, there is no way to forgive it and move past it. Alcoholism is an icidious disease that will eat away at every facet of every relationship that comes in contact with it. It is not worth my time. I'm am happier now that I am not in its presence. There is finally peace in my world, there are no eggshells on the ground, the air is no longer thick, I feel light and my mouth turns up. There is this noise that bubbles up inside me often and leaks out, I'm told it is laughter. I am breathing, full deep breaths. I am walking about my house, without explanation to anyone. It is a beautiful thing. If only I had known all this sooner.


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Hey Julia

I totally agree with you and am angry. After being in a relationship with an alcoholic boyfriend for over 2 years I have finally broken free from him and his control. Alcohol is just a symptom of deeper mental problems. It is not a disease, it is a choice of will. Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people who manipulate others to have their own needs met. Feeling sorry for them and aiding them in any way just feeds their cycle of getting their own way. I have no sympathy for alcoholics or any time for them. I will not participate in Al-Anon but prefer activities unassociated with alcoholism to deal with my anger!


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## DrunkenH

Just like with anything else, if you're "Angry @" it, you're not over it. You're over it when you can simply shrug, say good luck, and not give it a second thought. I truly wish you the best with not falling into any other relationships with alcoholics.

I also agree with the earlier post that alcoholism isn't really a disease per se. I know a lot of people including the AMA would disagree with me, but alcoholism is no more of a disease than anorexia (which I don't think is a disease either). Cancer? Disease. AIDS? Disease. Insisting on chugging sauce or refusing to eat? Not even in the same ballpark.


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## wendylou

Hi there DrunkenH,

I agree, I am not over it. I am still working through my anger. I have read books on co-dependency and am going to get some counselling to try and work through things and regain my sanity and peace of mind. I believe that alcoholics should be held accountable for their actions and their affect on others. My ex-partner only ever blamed me for everything yet he damaged my relationship with others, my self esteem, my financial situation and my well being. 

It will take time and a great deal of courage on my part to restore all that I have lost due to getting involved with this man.

These things just don't happen, some people just treat others badly and others suffer when they become involved with them.


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## Falene

Julia, you are one grumpy girl (with every reason to be)!

You need to work through that. Crap like that weighs us down.


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## ShawnD

OhGeesh said:


> I've seen it first hand and been to the meetings too on a "family night" seems awfully cultish to me, but if it helps them that's great. I'm just not on board with any of it.


Because it _is_ cultish. AA repeatedly states that alcoholism is a disease, but then they turn that around and refuse to treat it like a disease. Has anyone actually read the 12 steps? Basically it says that you should admit you're a loser, turn your life over to God, and hope everything fixes itself without seeking any real medical help. That's not how we should treat a disease. If I tell a person that I have cancer or diabetes and their solution is 100% based on prayer, then I think it's fair to say that person is retarded.

A lot of diseases really are linked to alcohol abuse, and none of them are cured through prayer alone. A short list of them:
-dysthymia (long lasting depression that never goes away)
-bipolar disorder
-schizophrenia
-epilepsy
-ADHD
-mild autism


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## Cherry

ShawnD said:


> Because it _is_ cultish. AA repeatedly states that alcoholism is a disease, but then they turn that around and refuse to treat it like a disease. Has anyone actually read the 12 steps? Basically it says that you should admit you're a loser, turn your life over to God, and hope everything fixes itself without seeking any real medical help. That's not how we should treat a disease. If I tell a person that I have cancer or diabetes and their solution is 100% based on prayer, then I think it's fair to say that person is retarded.
> 
> A lot of diseases really are linked to alcohol abuse, and none of them are cured through prayer alone. A short list of them:
> -dysthymia (long lasting depression that never goes away)
> -bipolar disorder
> -schizophrenia
> -epilepsy
> -ADHD
> -mild autism


What kind of medical procedure treats alcoholism? It is a behavioral disease. And the only known cures are death, jail, or a desire to stop drinking. AA can guide some people towards that desire to stop. It may not work for some people, so... find something that does work.

Why the hatin' on AA? Again, it may not have worked for you, but it works for some.. and isn't that the goal? Sobriety? Who cares how someone got there... Theyre there and if it works, no skin off my a$$, in fact more power to them.


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## ShawnD

Cherry said:


> What kind of medical procedure treats alcoholism?


Like most brain disorders, the only treatment at this time is drugs. Prescription drugs are an improvement because they're strong enough to make a person feel better but weak enough that the person is still functional. I knew a guy with extreme panic disorder who kept the disorder under control as long as he was on lorazepam (a benzo that acts similar to alcohol). He could very easily become an alcoholic to deal with the anxiety, but he's not. He has a job, he pays his taxes, and he's doing well. 




> Why the hatin' on AA?


Because they don't work. They almost never keep records to show their success rate, and the records they do keep showed that the average success rate was only 5%. It's statistically the same as the people who get no treatment at all. 



> Again, it may not have worked for you, but it works for some.. and isn't that the goal? Sobriety? Who cares how someone got there... Theyre there and if it works, no skin off my a$$, in fact more power to them.


But it doesn't work. That's the problem. People go to AA thinking it will do something, and 95% of them are disappointed. AA simply refuses to treat the underlying problem - deficiencies in the brain's GABA and glutamate systems.


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## Cherry

ShawnD said:


> Like most brain disorders, the only treatment at this time is drugs. Prescription drugs are an improvement because they're strong enough to make a person feel better but weak enough that the person is still functional. I knew a guy with extreme panic disorder who kept the disorder under control as long as he was on lorazepam (a benzo that acts similar to alcohol). He could very easily become an alcoholic to deal with the anxiety, but he's not. He has a job, he pays his taxes, and he's doing well.
> 
> 
> 
> Because they don't work. They almost never keep records to show their success rate, and the records they do keep showed that the average success rate was only 5%. It's statistically the same as the people who get no treatment at all.
> 
> 
> But it doesn't work. That's the problem. People go to AA thinking it will do something, and 95% of them are disappointed. AA simply refuses to treat the underlying problem - deficiencies in the brain's GABA and glutamate systems.


Overcoming alcoholism is a personal journey and one doesn't NEED drugs to do it. In fact, that's a cross addiction waiting to happen. It is not advisable. I drank for 20 years and I didnt need any drug to stop drinking. 

The reasons people drink has nothing to do with defenciencies in brain chemestry. It may happen over time.. but I drank because of low self esteem.. is there a pill I can take to treat that???? Alcohol helped.. alcoholism is a symptom of an unresolved behavioral issue. 

Are you an alcohic and how did you stop drinking?? What drug curbed your cravings? I'm sure others would like to know there a cure in the form of a safe prescription drug....

ETA: now that I think about it, you're pushing prescription drug use over alcoholism? Did you know we have a prescription drug abuse epidemic in this country? In fact most of the young women (age 30 and younger) who were in rehab with me were there for prescription drug abuse.


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## Cherry

Also, did you know lorazepam should only be prescribed for short term use? Two to four weeks, recommended by the FDA. Otherwise user develop a tolerance and dependence? Any chance your friend is an addict if he needs it to function... It's actually prescribed as part of a treatment for something, short term..


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## ShawnD

Cherry said:


> The reasons people drink has nothing to do with defenciencies in brain chemestry. It may happen over time.. but I drank because of low self esteem.. is there a pill I can take to treat that???? Alcohol helped.. alcoholism is a symptom of an unresolved behavioral issue.


Lots of drugs fix low self esteem. You can take a dopamine drug to create a more grandiose self image, or you can take a serotonin drug to make you not care about self image. Drugs like alcohol and opium tend to make people feel better, but they don't really fix the self esteem issue.



> Are you an alcohic and how did you stop drinking?? What drug curbed your cravings?


Not alcohol, but other drugs. I didn't have any desire to stop taking them since those drugs were holding me together, but I didn't like how much they cost, so I looked for alternatives. All of those drugs have been replaced with prescription fluoxetine. It's safe, legal, and completely free after insurance. 



> I'm sure others would like to know there a cure in the form of a safe prescription drug....


Naltrexone is given for alcohol withdrawal.




> you're pushing prescription drug use over alcoholism? Did you know we have a prescription drug abuse epidemic in this country?


It might be an epidemic in the US, but not in Canada. Prescription drugs are cheap here, so it's not a problem. My entire year supply of fluoxetine costs $0. Without insurance, it would be about $100/year. Most people spend more than that on coffee.



> In fact most of the young women (age 30 and younger) who were in rehab with me were there for prescription drug abuse.


Maybe they should try to get a job in Canada. Even our minimum wage people have enough money to maintain the most insane prescription drug addictions.



> Also, did you know lorazepam should only be prescribed for short term use? Two to four weeks, recommended by the FDA. Otherwise user develop a tolerance and dependence? Any chance your friend is an addict if he needs it to function... It's actually prescribed as part of a treatment for something, short term..


The tolerance doesn't build up forever. It eventually levels off and the person doesn't need to increase the dosage. My gf's ex was taking lorazepam for several years to deal with his epilepsy.


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## Cherry

ShawnD said:


> Lots of drugs fix low self esteem. You can take a dopamine drug to create a more grandiose self image, or you can take a serotonin drug to make you not care about self image. Drugs like alcohol and opium tend to make people feel better, but they don't really fix the self esteem issue.
> 
> 
> Not alcohol, but other drugs. I didn't have any desire to stop taking them since those drugs were holding me together, but I didn't like how much they cost, so I looked for alternatives. All of those drugs have been replaced with prescription fluoxetine. It's safe, legal, and completely free after insurance.
> 
> 
> Naltrexone is given for alcohol withdrawal.
> 
> 
> 
> It might be an epidemic in the US, but not in Canada. Prescription drugs are cheap here, so it's not a problem. My entire year supply of fluoxetine costs $0. Without insurance, it would be about $100/year. Most people spend more than that on coffee.
> 
> 
> Maybe they should try to get a job in Canada. Even our minimum wage people have enough money to maintain the most insane prescription drug addictions.
> 
> 
> The tolerance doesn't build up forever. It eventually levels off and the person doesn't need to increase the dosage. My gf's ex was taking lorazepam for several years to deal with his epilepsy.


What are you saying? That prescription drug abuse is okay so long as you have enough money to support it? Prescription drugs can have deadly consequences... Did you know that? Any addiction program promotes abstinence of ALL mind altering substances. You don't just replace it. You might take something temporarily to minimize withdrawal.. but then you aren't suppose to take anything... Why are you promoting prescription drug use? Our children are dying of overdoses left and right over crap like that...


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## ShawnD

Cherry said:


> What are you saying? That prescription drug abuse is okay so long as you have enough money to support it?


Exactly. Read through all of the threads on this page and you'll see money mentioned in every one of them.



> Prescription drugs can have deadly consequences... Did you know that? Any addiction program promotes abstinence of ALL mind altering substances.


They promote abstinence because they want you to replace drugs with religion, and you become dependent on AA for support. If you could just take a pill and all of your problems go away, you would never go back to AA, and the organization would completely fall apart. 



> are you promoting prescription drug use? Our children are dying of overdoses left and right over crap like that...


Do you have any stats to back this up? As of 1999, 38,000,000 people have been on fluoxetine and only 34 people died from overdose. Your odds of dying from fluoxetine are less than 1 in a million. Of the millions of people on sertraline, only 8 people have died. Dying from citalopram overdose is so rare that I can't even find a number for it.


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## Cherry

ShawnD said:


> Exactly. Read through all of the threads on this page and you'll see money mentioned in every one of them.
> 
> 
> They promote abstinence because they want you to replace drugs with religion, and you become dependent on AA for support. If you could just take a pill and all of your problems go away, you would never go back to AA, and the organization would completely fall apart.
> 
> 
> Do you have any stats to back this up? As of 1999, 38,000,000 people have been on fluoxetine and only 34 people died from overdose. Your odds of dying from fluoxetine are less than 1 in a million. Of the millions of people on sertraline, only 8 people have died. Dying from citalopram overdose is so rare that I can't even find a number for it.


I'm done talking to you about this. We simply disagree. Good day.

ETA: check this article out. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/17/local/la-me-drugs-epidemic-20110918


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## oddball

Shawn D , you are very poorly informed. If you seriously believe that the only problem with prescription drug addiction is the cost, you have obviously not seen as many people die from their addiction as I have.

There are many roads to recovery. Na and AA certainly helped me.

I no longer attend, and remain clean.


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## ShawnD

Cherry said:


> I'm done talking to you about this. We simply disagree. Good day.
> 
> ETA: check this article out. Drug deaths now outnumber traffic fatalities in U.S., Times analysis shows - Los Angeles Times


I lost a friend to suicide, and that article is exactly the kind of BS I heard when he died. He listened to pop music, so we should blame music! He liked to pretend he was god by playing Sim City, so we should ban that game! He really liked Star Trek, so we should ban Star Trek! All of them completely ignore the root problem - a deeply depressed man wanted to die.
The same BS also happened after those Columbine shootings. Instead of coming to the logical conclusion that two very disturbed boys went on a rampage, people started blaming music and video games and TV.


A few quotes from your article:


> A 19-year-old Army recruit, who had just passed his military physical, *took a handful of Xanax* and painkillers while partying with friends.


Taking a handful of xanax is a widely known way to kill yourself, just as shooting yourself in the head is a widely known way to kill yourself. It's even a common plot device in movies. Examples: Fight Club (Marla) and Seven (the woman who had her nose cut off). This person intentionally kills himself and you're blaming this on the drugs? Are you also one of those people who tries to blame gun companies when people use guns to commit suicide?



> A groom, anxious over his upcoming wedding, overdosed on a *****tail of prescription drugs*


That would be a suicide as well. When people don't know exactly which drugs will kill them or what dosage is needed, they take everything at once or take very large amounts. This is why people end up downing entire bottles of Tylenol to kill themselves. They don't know what to take, so they take whatever is available. Rampant suicide is actually the reason Tylenol is the #1 cause of liver failure. That surprises a lot of people because they naturally assume alcohol would be #1.



> A teenage honors student overdosed on painkillers her father left in his medicine cabinet from a surgery years earlier.


This sounds like a legitimate accident. This is why you don't take other peoples drugs. Talk to your doctor and get your own drugs.



> A toddler was orphaned after *both parents overdosed on prescription drugs months apart*


That's not random chance. That's definitely suicide. 



> A grandmother suffering from chronic back pain apparently forgot she'd already taken her daily regimen of pills and ended up double dosing.


This sounds legit. This is a particularly dangerous mistake when dealing with opioids because double dosing when you're already on a high dose can be enough to stop respiration. 



> That's apparently what happened to a San Diego woman found dead with a Fentanyl patch on her body, *one of five she'd applied in the 24 hours before her death*.


That's definitely a suicide.



> Shawn D , you are very poorly informed. If you seriously believe that the only problem with prescription drug addiction is the cost, you have obviously not seen as many people die from their addiction as I have.


Was their death intentional? I've lost a few people to suicide, and a couple of them were done with drugs. Guns and drugs are the most popular methods of suicide.


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## Cherry

ShawnD said:


> I lost a friend to suicide, and that article is exactly the kind of BS I heard when he died. He listened to pop music, so we should blame music! He liked to pretend he was god by playing Sim City, so we should ban that game! He really liked Star Trek, so we should ban Star Trek! All of them completely ignore the root problem - a deeply depressed man wanted to die.
> The same BS also happened after those Columbine shootings. Instead of coming to the logical conclusion that two very disturbed boys went on a rampage, people started blaming music and video games and TV.
> 
> 
> A few quotes from your article:
> 
> Taking a handful of xanax is a widely known way to kill yourself, just as shooting yourself in the head is a widely known way to kill yourself. It's even a common plot device in movies. Examples: Fight Club (Marla) and Seven (the woman who had her nose cut off). This person intentionally kills himself and you're blaming this on the drugs? Are you also one of those people who tries to blame gun companies when people use guns to commit suicide?
> 
> 
> That would be a suicide as well. When people don't know exactly which drugs will kill them or what dosage is needed, they take everything at once or take very large amounts. This is why people end up downing entire bottles of Tylenol to kill themselves. They don't know what to take, so they take whatever is available. Rampant suicide is actually the reason Tylenol is the #1 cause of liver failure. That surprises a lot of people because they naturally assume alcohol would be #1.
> 
> 
> This sounds like a legitimate accident. This is why you don't take other peoples drugs. Talk to your doctor and get your own drugs.
> 
> 
> That's not random chance. That's definitely suicide.
> 
> 
> This sounds legit. This is a particularly dangerous mistake when dealing with opioids because double dosing when you're already on a high dose can be enough to stop respiration.
> 
> 
> That's definitely a suicide.
> 
> 
> Was their death intentional? I've lost a few people to suicide, and a couple of them were done with drugs. Guns and drugs are the most popular methods of suicide.


And just like I don't believe guns should be legal, I don't believe prescription drugs should be legal. My cousin recently became so intoxicated with a mix of drugs she died.. she didn't need sh!t in her system, she needed rehab from everything. Her head was so fvcked, she couldn't see straight. She needed nothing, she was fine, she did need to resolve her childhood sexual abuse.. no amount of drugs would've helped her... TALK TALK TALK... Don't mask it with synthetic poison.


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## ShawnD

Cherry said:


> no amount of drugs would've helped her... TALK TALK TALK... Don't mask it with synthetic poison.


This is hard to say. Lots of weak drugs can suppress cravings for much stronger drugs. For example, I completely stopped taking MDMA after I started taking citalopram. MDMA is an extremely powerful serotonin releasing drug, possibly the most powerful. Citalopram is often regarded as the weakest antidepressant, and its effects are nowhere near as intense as MDMA, but it was enough to stop craving MDMA. Taking MDMA was like using a sledge hammer to hang a picture frame - it works but it's overkill and potentially causes more damage. Sometimes a little tiny hammer is all you need.

Drug cravings are something 12 step programs don't seem to fix. People who haven't smoked or drank in years can still crave those things because the underlying problem was never solved. They might still have crippling anxiety or depression, and they're standing on thin ice. I'll offer a beer, and the guy says no because he's a recovering alcoholic. Translation: he knows he will not stop at 1 beer. He will keep drinking and he will be back where he started because deep down he still loves alcohol. The 12 steps didn't fix that root problem. 

I don't have that problem because medication actually fixes that root problem. I was never an alcoholic, but I would drink way too much when I did drink. On medication, that doesn't happen anymore. I'll drink 1 or 2 beers and I stop. I stop because I feel satisfied, not because I'm fighting against myself.


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## Cherry

ShawnD said:


> Drug cravings are something 12 step programs don't seem to fix. People who haven't smoked or drank in years can still crave those things because the underlying problem was never solved. They might still have crippling anxiety or depression, and they're standing on thin ice. I'll offer a beer, and the guy says no because he's a recovering alcoholic. Translation: he knows he will not stop at 1 beer. He will keep drinking and he will be back where he started because deep down he still loves alcohol. The 12 steps didn't fix that root problem.


It ain't that big of a fvcking deal to not drink.. did you know that? Did you know that people can have a fulfilling life without that one or two drinks that you can so proudly handle now.. that's not a goal for some, so who cares? Think of it as an allergy... kinda like peanuts or penicillin or poison oak or yellow jackets or whatever... And is just easier to stay away from it altogether quite frankly. 

And you really shouldn't be drinking more than that one drink with that anti depressent you're so proud of... Just saying


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## Amanda G

DrunkenH said:


> Just like with anything else, if you're "Angry @" it, you're not over it. You're over it when you can simply shrug, say good luck, and not give it a second thought. I truly wish you the best with not falling into any other relationships with alcoholics.
> 
> I also agree with the earlier post that alcoholism isn't really a disease per se. I know a lot of people including the AMA would disagree with me, but alcoholism is no more of a disease than anorexia (which I don't think is a disease either). Cancer? Disease. AIDS? Disease. Insisting on chugging sauce or refusing to eat? Not even in the same ballpark.


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## SweetheartNoMore

wendylou said:


> -----------
> Hey Julia
> 
> I totally agree with you and am angry. After being in a relationship with an alcoholic boyfriend for over 2 years I have finally broken free from him and his control. Alcohol is just a symptom of deeper mental problems. It is not a disease, it is a choice of will. Alcoholics are selfish, self-centered people who manipulate others to have their own needs met. Feeling sorry for them and aiding them in any way just feeds their cycle of getting their own way. I have no sympathy for alcoholics or any time for them. I will not participate in Al-Anon but prefer activities unassociated with alcoholism to deal with my anger!


I have a hard time going to Al-anon too, went to my first a few days ago, and I understand it's a support system, but to have to go in and discuss the very things i discuss on here, just seems a bit of a waste to me. I guess i want a more uplifting way to spend that hr & a half, other than talking about the alcoholic in my life. I've wasted too much of my life on his alcoholism, I just want away from it altogether. My counselor wanted me to go, to see that other people have experienced the same as me and that i'm not alone. I can see that by just looking at my own family. the Co-dependent No more book helped me more i believe. But, people are all different, what helps one may not help another.


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## Amanda G

I am also angry at ex-boyfriend. He moved from another state to be with me (we knew each other WAY back in high school and re-connected) and I did not know of his "problem" until he arrived at the airport: messy/smelly/frumpy/belly sticking out of old Hawaiian shirt/drunk. WOW, was I duped! He really came off so 'together' on the phone and through pictures. Yes...he had had a bit of a hard time with his job...so many did right at that time. He IS very intelligent..high I.Q. But yes, I am PISSED for many of the same reasons. I am very thankful I did not have him move in with me! (I do have some smarts myself, at times, but he did spend the weekends with me). I am tired of reading how I am supposed to "act" around an alcoholic...how "sensitive" I am supposed to be. He sat on his behind, every day after promising a new life with me. We planned...had so much in common and already knew each other a long time ago. He came from a good family, brought up with good values. But now, 1 1/2 yrs later, he is living in a flea-bag motel, still sitting on his behind on unemployment, blogging in FB and his philosophy chats ALL day and ALL night long, drinking his cheap high-impact talls, sleeping into the late morning or early afternoon; his health is horrible (and yet, he is soooo smart to tell me his recent blood test says he is "perfectly healthy"!Look at your left swollen ankle! It's SO swollen! He said to me, after I had asked if he was going to get a job (and I waited almost a full year, walking on egg shells not to "push him")...."I need to get settled first". Good bye lazy arrogant man with high I.Q. You ARE so much smarter than everyone else...and you tell them so.....buh bye. I tried, I tried and I tried. You have sunken so low.....I don't believe your excuse as to why you moved out of that room you were renting in that nice home in a nice neighborhood, had a nice girlfriend, me, that loved to cook for you, tried to get you out to do fun things....but no, it's because your room smelled so bad, you didn't do anything but drink and posts on the Internet, your landlady got tired, just as I did....I don't believe I have to treat you like a poor, diseased person....YOU made this choice. There.....I said it and everyone can also get mad at me for saying it like it is. I will NOT be the victim! I will continue to go on, work hard, and be around people of the same. Good luck. I am sorry I had re-connected to see how you are doing...it just brought it all back up. (Mad at myself, actually...MY mistake). Okay...I'm done with my rant.


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## Ignis

OhGeesh said:


> I can chime in too!!! I will never understand addiction NA or AA it's almost incomprehendable to me and I don't see that changing.
> 
> I've seen it first hand and been to the meetings too on a "family night" seems awfully cultish to me, but if it helps them that's great. I'm just not on board with any of it.


I am really sorry to hear that. It is true that some people can not involve in such groups, but it is also true that this kind of treatment help to many many many...

I would suggest you to think about giving it a second chance, maybe elsewhere. I am sure you can find many new friends there with similar experiences but successful life now.


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