# Saving my marriage



## WV1975

I need some help saving my marriage. I want to save it, but I am afraid that she does not. Is it too late? I still love her very much and we have a 17 month old son together. I think she wants a trial separation and we are already sleeping in different rooms. Communication has stopped and things seam to be worse each day. She becomes more distant and wants less to do with me. I need help. Does anybody have any advise for me? I want to save my marriage more than anything. I'm having areal hard time dealing with this situation. Please help..


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## sandc

Who is the third party that's involved?


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## WV1975

What do you you mean third party?


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## sandc

I guess I should have asked the question, is there a third party involved? Is there another man in the picture? Old friend, boyfriend, a lot of facebooking or chatting? Has she kept her phone glued to her side?


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## WV1975

Yes she has been chatting and facebooking a lot. Keeps her phone beside her all the time.


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## sandc

Then there is another man in her life. Do you know who he is?

Can you get into her Facebook?
Check her phone records. Look for numbers that are frequently called or texted. You can use spokeo.com to find out who owns the number.
Buy a voice activated recorder and put it in her car. Velcro it under the driver's seat with heavy duty velcro. Put fresh batteries in it and check it every few days.


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## WV1975

I wish that I could get her facebook login, I would love to see what she has been saying. But she's on it all the time.


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## sandc

If you have access to her computer you could install a keylogger on it and get her facebook information.

What kind of phone does she have?


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## WV1975

She has an iphone 5


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## sandc

And take some time to read through this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ted-evidence-gathering-thread.html#post886718


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## sandc

WV1975 said:


> She has an iphone 5


You can do a backup of her phone and get the texts she has been sending on it.

I'm not a hacker or anything but there is a lot of good info in that thread. You can also ask them questions on how to get the info if you're stuck.


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## Toffer

WV,

Sandc is is right.

She is starting or has already started an affair.

Do NOT ask her about this! She'll only deny. You need to gather hard evidence first

Get a keylogger on the PC TODAY!Get the voice activated recorder now and put one under the front seat of her car with heavy duty velcro


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## Toffer

As sandc said, look at her cell phone records to see how long this as been going on

Look for alot ot texts to/from 1 or 2 numbers. These will probably occur early in the AM or late at night or other times you're not around (at work)

Does your wife work outside the home?


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## WV1975

Shes doesn't use the computer much anymore. She most uses her phone. Which is a iphone 4S not a 5. Anything I can do with that?


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## sandc

Oh, and a couple of rules I forgot to mention:

Rule #1: NEVER EVER EVER reveal your sources of information.
Rule #2: DO NOT CONFRONT until you have hard evidence and come talk to us about it first. DO NOT confront until you talk to us here on TAM.

I say this because as soon as you have a little bit of evidence you'll be tempted to confront. She will be able to explain a little evidence away. And she will only admit to what you have evidence for. This is why you need hard evidence.


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## sandc

WV1975 said:


> Shes doesn't use the computer much anymore. She most uses her phone. Which is a iphone 4S not a 5. Anything I can do with that?


Yes, you can do a sync of it on your computer. It will back up all texts including deleted texts. There are programs that will help you read the texts.


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## WV1975

How can I get on her facebook account?


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## WV1975

We are going to a marriage counselor on the 29th. Would the counselor be able to pick up on the facebooking all the time and guarding her phone?


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## sandc

Don't tell anyone anything. Act as normal as you can. If you tell the counselor about her phone useage and Facebooking she will just change tactics. You want her to feel comfortable. If she takes this underground it will be even harder to gather the evidence you need to confront her with.

Read this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...evidence-gathering-thread-21.html#post1082349


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## sandc

Can you get hold of her phone for say, 10 minutes or so? Does she keep it password protected?


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## WV1975

She keeps it (phone) on her all the time. She never leaves the room with out it. If she does it's just for as second until she realizes that she forgot it.


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## WV1975

I did some digging and got her passwrd for face book. If she is on it at work will she be able to tell if I have been on it?


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## Dewayne76

Yes, there is but most likely she won't notice it. Unless they've changed it recently. Just don't forget to log out and make sure she won't be able to tell you've been on it ont he computer you use, talking about the history etc. Some browsers will show where you've been recently and sometimes will have the username last used frozen / filled in already. So sign into yours when you're done. 

Be careful as to not read any unread messages. Use Printscreen to save images of the conversation. You can print these out later. 


Good luck. I know where you're at. It sucks. 

As been said, NEVER give any tactics away. Once you do, she'll know and change from there. If she thinks you've seen her fb page, she'll change pw and stop using it to communicate. But if you have hard enough evidence, it won't matter past that point anyways. 

IF you guys get to piecing the R back together, it's imperative to have transparency then anyways, meaning she should give you access to her FB at all times. In these times, TRUST is EARNED BACK... and "trusting" is completely out the window. If she gripes at any point, she's still hiding sh.t. 

Good luck.


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## Toffer

Facebook has a feature (if enabled by the user) to send an email notification to an account holder if it is accessed from an "unrecognized device"

If she set the account up from home, you may be OK

Again, get a keylogger ASAP to get all her passwords. That way you could log into her email and delete any facebook notifications that you were there


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## HD1983

Aww... Look at all you giving my husband advice. What he forgets is that there are 2 sides to the story. Nice to know I need to change my passwords daily now. Oh.. And check my car for recording devices (illegal by the way) and my computer for key loggers. 

Oh... And maybe he should sign out of my iPad.


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## sandc

Busted dude.

So why don't you just come clean and tell him what's going on? Or better yet, tell us your side of the story. I would LOVE to hear it.


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## sandc

HD1983 said:


> And check my car for recording devices (illegal by the way) and my computer for key loggers.


You don't live in a community property state? Is it not his car too? 



HD1983 said:


> Oh... And maybe he should sign out of my iPad.


Oh he definitely should have done that.


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## HD1983

Yes it's a community property state but you can't be recorded without consent. 

And I'm not cheating on him. I just don't feel the same way I once did. I don't believe in staying together "for the kids".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

So if he checks your phone records who is he going to find you've been talking to? You have been facebooking and talking to someone right? A LOT, right? Who is he?

Do you believe that someone can be in an emotional affair? Are you in one?

A lot of this is going to come across as accusatory, it's really not. Just a discovery process. We're all strangers here, perfect place to tell your side of the story.


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## HD1983

Honestly? This isn't anyone's business but mine and his. He betrayed my trust coming on here. We've been talking about separating and I've been on my phone talking to friends and family about the situation. There is no affair. The marriage is over.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

That is funny HD.

You say it is between you and your husband but you have been talking to friends and family.

Wow, aren't you one sided.

And yes there are always two sides to every story. But you will not give because you have already made up your mind.

So hear is some free advice for both of you.

Both of you stop being selfish. Stop talking to strangers, friends and family.

Start talking honestly to each other. 

And if you split up remember that your kid is not even 2. So you two will have a relationship whether you want to or not for at least the next 16 years.

HM64


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## HD1983

Yeah... Friends and family who will help me when I move out. Don't be so quick to judge. I'm not kicking him out... It's his house in his name. I'm not taking our son away from him. He's a good dad! Sometimes people just don't belong together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

WV,
Check the phone records. The most frequently called number will be him.


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## HD1983

Wow... When you look at this Chad, I hope you see how absolutely ridiculous these people sound.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

Absolutely pathetic!

Nothing makes a bigger explosion with a more lasting whole than a mans ego! Because you suffered you see infidelity everywhere? Shame on you!

Women talk! Alot! Mostly to other women. Why, because men are typically emotionally retarded. I have been on Facebook having secret conversations that have to do with my lousy marriage. If my husband EVER EVER did to me what you suggested to this poor man I'd leave in a heart beat because that would be the last effing straw! He won't listen to my word, he won't respond to my requests, but he'll spy on me? No Way!

Did it ever occur to you that she HAS told him why she is n happy it he doesn't get it, like most husbands?

I hope you're proud of yourselves for giving advice that likely caused the very end of what likely could have been saved!


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## tom67

Anon Pink said:


> Absolutely pathetic!
> 
> Nothing makes a bigger explosion with a more lasting whole than a mans ego! Because you suffered you see infidelity everywhere? Shame on you!
> 
> Women talk! Alot! Mostly to other women. Why, because men are typically emotionally retarded. I have been on Facebook having secret conversations that have to do with my lousy marriage. If my husband EVER EVER did to me what you suggested to this poor man I'd leave in a heart beat because that would be the last effing straw! He won't listen to my word, he won't respond to my requests, but he'll spy on me? No Way!
> 
> Did it ever occur to you that she HAS told him why she is n happy it he doesn't get it, like most husbands?
> 
> I hope you're proud of yourselves for giving advice that likely caused the very end of what likely could have been saved!


Both probably from d0c00l disregard.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso

Oh goodness!

WV1975 you arent really considering spying on your wife. I am a man and I surely understand you going nuts that there could be Mr. Bond sleeping with your wife.. And since she ahs been sleeping with him, she looks so much more sexy to you and you feel more angry when you think of how another is getting it.. Right?

PLEASE! Do not spy on her. Give up trying to get her Facebook account password or keylogers and whatever. If there is anyone on this thread who has saved his marriage by proving adultery of his spouce, then I want to give that couple a visit :-D. But it is your choice.
In any case, any proof should make you divorce her, cause any longer year of marriage will consume you after that, unless you have an affair yourself. That is the only proven way to keep the marriage running with no illfull recents. She is wrong, you are wrong, so no need to hate.

1. In your case I would open a Facebook account myself and add a few friends. Both Male and female. Then I would start flirting a bit secretly.
2. The most important thing to do after is to always be texting with friends and rarely letting her know wo you are texting with. If she insists, you insist that its nothing you want to talk about. Keep your backbone onto this for it to work.
3. Talk about a female college in a few sentences. For example mention how you guys talked about holliday locations or how she helped you handling a certain task at work. This all does nt need to be true, but it will draw your wife bakc to you within a week, rather than stalking her.
4. In case she talks about other men or ANOTHER MAN, relax (at least outwardly). Be interested for a minute or two, then change the topic. Do not act onto it, no matter how it is burning you to know more so you can be sure about adultery. DONT act on it. Fatal mistake!
5. Spend more time of the weak with your friends.
6. Remain a loving husband. All this wont work if you do it while acting agressive or insecure or nervous or malisious! Be polite, but dont do everything she wants. Do not compliment her too often. Twice a week is enouph for the beginning.
7. Have patience with yourself in fulfilling the upper tasks. It might take a week till you notice positive changes.
8. In case you get into a quarell or arguement, then you bet end it on the spot. Better lose ist and give her the win, than to continue fighting your point. Argueing is not manly when a marriage is not running well -> It kills the marriage.


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## Toffer

HD,

Again, you're more than free to express you're side of the marriage.

All marriages have problems and both partners share in those problems. Have the two of you sought counseling previously?

Remember that when a person comes here and asks questions, we answer based on what we are told. We realize it is one side of the story but that's all we get to go on.

Your behavior (as explained by your husband) is that of someone who is leading another life outside of their vows. While it doesn't always turn out that the spouse is cheating, if you do any reading here you'll see that it is true in 98% of the cases

Again, if it's truly friends and family, why wouldn't you let him see your phone then? Why do you need to change passwords daily?

It's obvious to him and the rest of us that you've choosen to dissole the marriage. Do it quickly and with as little pain as possible if you ever felt anything for him.


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## Toffer

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Oh goodness!
> 
> WV1975 you arent really considering spying on your wife. I am a man and I surely understand you going nuts that there could be Mr. Bond sleeping with your wife.. And since she ahs been sleeping with him, she looks so much more sexy to you and you feel more angry when you think of how another is getting it.. Right?
> 
> PLEASE! Do not spy on her. Give up trying to get her Facebook account password or keylogers and whatever. If there is anyone on this thread who has saved his marriage by proving adultery of his spouce, then I want to give that couple a visit
> 
> *Do some reading on the site, especially the Coping With Infidelity section. What you'll discover is that Reconciliation has NEVER been successful until the betrayed spouse knows what's going on and CONFRONTS the cheating spouse with harrd evidence. This is usually the best way to get a cheating spouse to wake up and see what they are doing*
> 
> 1. In your case I would open a Facebook account myself and add a few friends. Both Male and female. Then I would start flirting a bit secretly. *Sriously? How does this help?*


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## Chaparral

HD1983 said:


> Wow... When you look at this Chad, I hope you see how absolutely ridiculous these people sound.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If what you were saying is true, you would give your husbsnd free access to you your phone, texts, facebook etc. And prove it.

If what your husband says is true, you are in an emotionsl affair or physical affair. Not one time have these signs been wrong in the cwi section in the last two years.

All you have to do is prove it now. He will know soon after the divorce anyway, although the odds are you are being played.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso

> Do some reading on the site, especially the Coping With Infidelity section. What you'll discover is that Reconciliation has NEVER been successful until the betrayed spouse knows what's going on and CONFRONTS the cheating spouse with harrd evidence. This is usually the best way to get a cheating spouse to wake up and see what they are doing


Interesting my friend :-D. I ve read all this stuff too and there is truth in it. And when it comes to reality, these kind of reconciliations never lasted longer than 3 months.
Seeing the betrayer as the only wrong one here is the biggest mistake. Whoever denies this, shouldnt wonder not getting anywhere while trying to work up things.
The fact is that there is a cause to each action between couples..

E.g. let us asume T.E. would find out that there is another man. So then what? Will his wife want to be with him more after this or will any reconciliation just be her giving in for the sake of the marriage?? In the case its latter, you can be sure the motivation to keep up the marriage over a longer period is nearly ZERO!! No one loves to be forced. This also aplies to times when you are doing something wrong. In this case humans never grow up. Dont fool yourself.
Just to finish up. What if his wife isnt cheating? Mr. super jealous husband. She will have all reasons to be angry.



> 1. In your case I would open a Facebook account myself and add a few friends. Both Male and female. Then I would start flirting a bit secretly. Sriously? How does this help?


:-D I am surprised how few people deny the importance of psychology in a marriage. Both one owns mind and that of the partner need to kept in good shape:
It is mostly men who start to get jealous when they neglect all other activities of life and only focus on work and wife/family. This makes them more controling and even paranoid. Sure there are times this is justyfied, but in most cases I have experienced this behavoir was rather cause of the problem.
On the other side his wife will surely soon see him with other eyes when she has the feeling he isnt controling and also has other friends. Its like at school, you hang too much around the same friends and things get boring. The only interesting group members are those who also check out to meet others or to do other activities. You do not need to believe this, but deep in yourself you know there is truth in it.

Cheers


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## caladan

chapparal said:


> If what you were saying is true, you would give your husbsnd free access to you your phone, texts, facebook etc. And prove it.
> 
> If what your husband says is true, you are in an emotionsl affair or physical affair. Not one time have these signs been wrong in the cwi section in the last two years.
> 
> All you have to do is prove it now. He will know soon after the divorce anyway, although the odds are you are being played.


With all due respect sir, that's just boll-ocks. She doesn't need to prove anything. Nada. Zilch. 

If she wants to leave, let her leave. If not, let her work on her problems.

If I were in her position, there would be absolutely no way for any sort of R if anyone went snooping around me. It sucks, it's miserable, hell it's pathetic. That said, I would never cheat either. But trust needs to start from somewhere. The knee-jerk "she's cheating" reaction to every possible WAW is borderline chauvinistic if we're to be brutally honest.


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## sandc

So a BS has no right to verify that the affair is over and done with? They just have to trust that it's over? You really can't see the problem with that?

It's not a knee-jerk reaction. It's observation that in 98% of these threads, someone is cheating.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso

> It's not a knee-jerk reaction. It's observation that in 98% of these threads, someone is cheating.


There it goes the paranoidism.



> So a BS has no right to verify that the affair is over and done with? They just have to trust that it's over? You really can't see the problem with that?


Its better to trust that the problems that caused the betrayal are fixed than to force proof. You can be given true proof today and next week she gets weak again. But if there were issues that caused the adultery and these are fixed. Its more likely you wont need proof because you will be more self confident.

Most men just want proof so they can lay down their butts in lazyness and feel secure like with mom. Lazyness in maintaining your relationship causes the problem at first (A guy loses backbone + he lets his figure go the road down(latter aplies to women too)). All because of doing nothing at the time you feel most secure in your relationship.. By the time you re consumed and out of shape you cant figure out what went wrong and you believe current problems are due to current issues, which actually fail. Most current problems breed silently like a disease.

One of the few ways you can be confident in a relationship is when there are days when you surely can do without it and when you never have a reason to regret giving.
The problem is that most people, especially men, cant do without their wife and do too much for her. When she doesnt reciprocate they either start recenting her or argueing around, which are mistakes too.


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## Toffer

caladan said:


> With all due respect sir, that's just boll-ocks. She doesn't need to prove anything. Nada. Zilch.
> 
> If she wants to leave, let her leave. If not, let her work on her problems.
> 
> If I were in her position, there would be absolutely no way for any sort of R if anyone went snooping around me. It sucks, it's miserable, hell it's pathetic. That said, I would never cheat either. But trust needs to start from somewhere. The knee-jerk "she's cheating" reaction to every possible WAW is borderline chauvinistic if we're to be brutally honest.


Sorry caladan but I disagree too.

If my wife thinks I am acting differently towards her, she has every right to try and find out what I am up to and if i'm putting the marriage in danger.

I have never cheated either. It seems that many here do not intend to go that route and then it happens for whatever reasons. I would hope that someone would stop me before I went too far.

I think everone here recognizes that people fall out of love too when there's no one else involved. It does happen but when you see the typical signs of cheating it's hard not to advise someone to check into what's going on IF they want a chance to fix the marriage. Knowing that your wife is a WAW would lead you to trying certain things (albeit that none of them will probably work since she's already long gone) 

Knowing that she (or he) is involved in an affair would result in a completely different approach for the BS.


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## caladan

Just so we're clear, what I consider BS isn't the right to snoop - by all means go ahead and snoop. But just so we're clear, could be a price to pay for snooping.

What I do consider BS is the statement that it was up to the spouse to prove her innocence. I mean, seriously. I find the lack of openness from the WAW rather ingenious, as well as her apparent anger. The fact is that she may well be cheating. Regardless, she doesn't need to prove anything. That's not how it works.

By the way - I disagree with your stats about 98%, that's rookie statistics. How many people whose partners left without cheating come here and wail about it? How many of them actually document it? The odds are that the people who feel the most aggreived are also the most likely to log on here and express themselves as a way of dealing with their pain. Your 98% is certainly a lot lower than that.


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## WyshIknew

caladan said:


> Just so we're clear, what I consider BS isn't the right to snoop - by all means go ahead and snoop. But just so we're clear, could be a price to pay for snooping.
> 
> What I do consider BS is the statement that it was up to the spouse to prove her innocence. I mean, seriously. I find the lack of openness from the WAW rather ingenious, as well as her apparent anger. The fact is that she may well be cheating. Regardless, she doesn't need to prove anything. That's not how it works.
> 
> By the way - I disagree with your stats about 98%, that's rookie statistics. How many people whose partners left without cheating come here and wail about it? How many of them actually document it? The odds are that the people who feel the most aggreived are also the most likely to log on here and express themselves as a way of dealing with their pain. Your 98% is certainly a lot lower than that.


However caladan, I don't know any exact figures but there are many instances on here where people have posted their first thread trying to work out why their husband/wife has suddenly decided to leave a long term marriage. After taking the steps advised here it is almost invariably found to be an affair of some kind. So it is not always the case that posters here are aware that their partner has cheated.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso

Most people disagree with caladan because they are control freaks who should have marrried a puppet in order for things to always be smooth. Puppets dont need men with backbones and self cofidence. Sorry, but thats my opinion.


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## sandc

caladan said:


> By the way - I disagree with your stats about 98%, that's rookie statistics. How many people whose partners left without cheating come here and wail about it? How many of them actually document it? The odds are that the people who feel the most aggreived are also the most likely to log on here and express themselves as a way of dealing with their pain. Your 98% is certainly a lot lower than that.


I defer to you then. You've obviously spent far more time going through the threads than I.


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## sandc

There suddenly seems to be a lot of sympathy for the wife and none for the husband. Are you a friend of hers? Are you her?


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## caladan

I'm a realist. I feel for the guy - his wife wants to leave, it totally sucks. I however don't see how snooping after her will improve things, it's like too many people here are angry and vengeful, and are only looking for ways to find fault with other people.

Look - my advice to the guy would have been more in the line of "get a backbone, let her go, improve yourself, etc", and not snoop, but I didn't get a chance to respond before it all blew up (and quite frankly, I'm tired of telling people that discovering an affair isn't exactly the bed of roses people seem to make it out to be, but that's a different story).

I love and respect the institution of marriage. I however am under no illusion that there's a magic wand can be waved to make an erring partner suddenly discover the hitherto depths of his love for the spouse he/she is about to leave. It often takes months of anguish and soul-searching for all but the most callous to decide to leave, and when they decide to, I suggest you throw them a party, pop the champagne, and wish them the best of luck, then do your absolute best to work on yourself, because in the end, all you have control over is yourself.


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## Maricha75

sandc said:


> There suddenly seems to be a lot of sympathy for the wife and none for the husband. Are you a friend of hers? Are you her?


Aww, sandc, you know from where they migrated... 

I did love the D.C. psychologist's comment that R only lasts 3 months when the betrayed confronts the cheater. How many on here are at a year? Two years? More? And funny how the spouses confronted, huh? 

I looked through my husband's texts. I looked through his Facebook messages. I looked through his emails. The OW is out and we are at almost a year since. Funny how our R only lasts 3 months, according to D.C. here... and yet, we are way past 3 months. Nice try though! It got a good laugh from me! :smthumbup:


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## caladan

Maricha75 said:


> Aww, sandc, you know from where they migrated...


Really. Are we allowed to get snarky as well?


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## Maricha75

caladan said:


> Really. Are we allowed to get snarky as well?


Snarky? My comment wasn't snarky. It was merely an observation.


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## caladan

Maricha75 said:


> Snarky? My comment wasn't snarky. It was merely an observation.


Those are not mutually exclusive.

Anyway, we have different opinions regarding how people should carry on obviously. I would never snoop, you would. I would never tolerate snooping, your significant other did. I would also never cheat.

Make of it what you will.


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## HD1983

Ok...

1. I've asked for counseling numerous times. It's his insurance that covers it and he has made no effort (up until me saying I'm going to move out) to follow through with that. It's been 6+ months.
2. It's already over. We're working on what's going to go where now. So eff all this stuff about cheating because that's not going on. Priority #1 is our child. If anyone has any CONSTRUCTIVE advice on how to transition smoothly for our son that would be appreciated. Anything beyond that is insignificant.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75

caladan said:


> Those are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> Anyway, we have different opinions regarding how people should carry on obviously. I would never snoop, you would. I would never tolerate snooping, your significant other did. I would also never cheat.
> 
> Make of it what you will.


He always said he'd never cheat. He always said if you are flirting, you are cheating. The one thing I am thankful for is that it never went physical. There was no possible way for it to go physical, and that is something we agree is a deal breaker. 

Now, we both communicate as we should have been the last few years. We allow access to each others accounts/communications, willingly. I feel no need to constantly snoop and neither does he. And if everything is open and available to each other, it is no longer snooping.

Make of it what you will.


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## Maricha75

HD1983 said:


> Ok...
> 
> 1. I've asked for counseling numerous times. It's his insurance that covers it and he has made no effort (up until me saying I'm going to move out) to follow through with that. It's been 6+ months.
> 2. It's already over. We're working on what's going to go where now. So eff all this stuff about cheating because that's not going on. Priority #1 is our child. If anyone has any CONSTRUCTIVE advice on how to transition smoothly for our son that would be appreciated. Anything beyond that is insignificant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm sorry, I have no idea how to make the transition smoother for your son. All I can suggest is to stress that none of it is his fault, that it is between you and your husband. Listen to him. And, maybe get HIM to see a counselor about his feelings regarding this? I honestly don't know...


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## caladan

HD1983 said:


> Ok...
> 
> 1. I've asked for counseling numerous times. It's his insurance that covers it and he has made no effort (up until me saying I'm going to move out) to follow through with that. It's been 6+ months.
> 2. It's already over. We're working on what's going to go where now. So eff all this stuff about cheating because that's not going on. Priority #1 is our child. If anyone has any CONSTRUCTIVE advice on how to transition smoothly for our son that would be appreciated. Anything beyond that is insignificant.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We played it (and are playing it) rather unconventionally. We have two family house, so the boys get unrestricted access to either parent. We've split weekdays and weekends so each parent gets some "me" time, and once a month or so, we have a joint activity (movies/other social activity). There are some other rules regarding visitors to the house and all that. Nesting, I believe it's called.


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## HD1983

That is rather unconventional! 

I'll be moving out. Either my dad will buy a house for me to live in or I will rent my own place for now. Is 17 months too young for a back and forth situation?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan

HD1983 said:


> That is rather unconventional!
> 
> I'll be moving out. Either my dad will buy a house for me to live in or I will rent my own place for now. Is 17 months too young for a back and forth situation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can't comment on that unfortunately.

For me, I didn't want the kids to move back and forth. The agreement we currently have is that the kids own the house, and parents get to shuttle back and forth if necessary.

And no, I don't expect this arrangement to last indefinitely, there's just no way I'll be paying all the bills in two locations. Not right now.


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## WyshIknew

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Most people disagree with caladan because they are control freaks who should have marrried a puppet in order for things to always be smooth. Puppets dont need men with backbones and self cofidence. Sorry, but thats my opinion.


Thats ok, opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one.


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## sandc

Maricha75 said:


> Aww, sandc, you know from where they migrated...


I do indeed. And for the record, I've always admired your snarkiness.


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## WyshIknew

Psy.D. C. Maso said:


> Most people disagree with caladan because they are control freaks who should have marrried a puppet in order for things to always be smooth. Puppets dont need men with backbones and self cofidence. Sorry, but thats my opinion.


Just a heads up, if you really had this amazing backbone and oozed self confidence you wouldn't be sorry for your opinion.

That is my opinion and I care not a whit to be sorry for it.


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## chicagocat

HD: I think have your father rent a place for you for six months and see how it goes. I got the impression your dh really cares for you and wants it to work. These sites can help offer perspective but when they confound things, create needless anxiety- that's worry porn. Your son is so young and men are so immature. Many times when they realize they will lose you, they will try a little harder to understand and care for you. Don't be hasty, I've been sleeping in separate beds with my husband for a long time but he is a good father and a good person. Is he sensitive and caring towards me? sadly, no. he is too angry, but he loves the children and I fail him as well. be mindful and deliberate.


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## Psy.D. C. Maso

> Just a heads up, if you really had this amazing backbone and oozed self confidence you wouldn't be sorry for your opinion.


That amazing backbone gives me the double O licence to say sorry whenever i like ^^


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## Shaggy

Keep this in mind mrs. Hd, you husband came looking for help in a forum that's is pro marriage. He didn't go to a how to cheat forum, of which there are many. He didn't go to a forum on how to screw over your spouse in a D. He came to a forum of people who believe in trying to save and better marriages.

Now btw, a great many spouses who are cheating show the exact behaviors and attitudes you are exhibiting. Even saying NO in an aggressive tone when asked if there is someone else. Your words won't prove you aren't cheating, only your actions will.

You are not and have not been open and honest with you husband. Even if you do intend to D because he is not the one you want, you do not need to be having a long set of private and secret conversations with people about it, nor do you have to hide who you are talking with from your SO. Ok you what a D. Then file for D, but stop the secrecy and drama. The only purpose of secrecy like that is because you fear discovery, or you fear he will counter your plans.

He knows you plan on D. Ok, so what do you need to hide? Who amongst your advisors do you need to hide from him?

You'll find the D a whole lot easier and faster if you treat him with respect and honesty. Unfortunately you've chosen drama, confrontation, secrecy. So as this escalates remember you are the one who chose to go the drama route. 

Of course you could still choose a different path. Be open and honest with him. Treat him as someone worthy of your respect and you might find the D a lot less painful and scaring.


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## Anon Pink

To Mr. And Mrs HD

My knee jerk reaction to being spied upon was because it doesn't adress the real problem which is, why is your marriage so unstable? Unstable that, if accusations are true, she is seeking love and affection from another man, she wants to end it. A well loved woman doesn't stray. 

Keeping her away from another man, finding evidence, snooping, none of those things fix the essential problem. She isn't and hasn't felt the love SHE needs. 

If Mr. HD wants to save his marriage that is what needs to be addressed first, last and always.

Dont waste your prescious little time left as a married couple by snooping. Find out what needs SHE has that have failed to have been met and seek to meet them. ONLY then will she entertain the thought of trying to save the marriage along with you.

Mr. And Mrs, give each other one last chance to be the person who best meets your needs, best shows you love, best partner and lover. Once you have reconnected for a significant length of time, you can then delve into possible infidelity.

However, if she has fully and firmly closed the door already, you must seek to understand what went wrong on your part in order to make a better relationship with the next Mrs. HD.

Mrs HD, I urge you to reconsider leaving. It is worth it to work this out. Men are... Stupid. Sorry guys but you are. Give your husband a chance to be the husband you want. If the accusations are true, that you have found love elsewhere and that is where you intend to go no matter what your husband does or doesn't do, you owe it to him to tell him. You will want an ex husband who has moved on and made a happier relationship with the new Mrs HD and he can best do that by understanding what went wrong. You will want your son raised by TWO sets of happily married couples, not by two bitter, angry and mistrustful divorced parents.

I wish you both peace and love.


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## Keepin-my-head-up

HD1983 said:


> That is rather unconventional!
> 
> I'll be moving out. Either my dad will buy a house for me to live in or I will rent my own place for now. Is 17 months too young for a back and forth situation?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My question to you HD is; how did u find out ur husband was on this forum?
did u snoop, did he tell you, were u looking for advice urself?
As far as all that other stuff? I don't know.. life is what life is. Good luck to the 3 of you, especially the little one
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

HD found her husbands post on her iPad. He never logged out.

Notice how HD husband who started ths thread has not returned?

Notice how HD has taken over his thread?

So HD, is this how your marriage has been run?

I wish both of you would post and really, truthfully tell your story.


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## sandc

Never mind.


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## caladan

You may be right. But I can say for sure that this is arguably the most.... intriguing thread I've read on here so far.


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## The Cro-Magnon

Maricha75 said:


> Aww, sandc, you know from where they migrated...


This. Thank you.


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## The Cro-Magnon

Anon Pink said:


> To Mr. And Mrs HD
> 
> My knee jerk reaction to being spied upon was because it doesn't adress the real problem which is, why is your marriage so unstable? Unstable that, if accusations are true, she is seeking love and affection from another man, she wants to end it. A well loved woman doesn't stray.
> 
> Keeping her away from another man, finding evidence, snooping, none of those things fix the essential problem. She isn't and hasn't felt the love SHE needs.


Stopped reading right there. Total frogshtt. You can be the most perfect husband or wife in the world, and a spouse can STILL betray you, due to their own psychological issues. Read tears' thread in which she cheated on her perfect husband and broke him, and had to look within to find it was all in her, all her problems. And I think in alot of situations this is the case.

I am married, and my needs have been discarded, shat upon, spat on, I have been treated like a 2nd class human, I have been denied intimacy of any kind, but have I cheated on my wife?

Not. In. A. Million. Fcuking. Years.

I have instead FORCED my reasonable feelings of discontent down her throat, in blunt & unequivocal terms, to ENSURE she got the message. Our ability to communicate was broken, so I spoke in a language she could not ignore because I love her, and want to repair our marriage.

Only selfish, damaged, childish, and sociopathic people cheat IMO, people too weak and pathetic and worthless to even attempt to work on things, to grow a pair and rise to the challenge. Nope, they'd rather just get their needs met like junkie scum drug addicts, and that's the level they are on.


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## caladan

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Stopped reading right there. Total frogshtt. You can be the most perfect husband or wife in the world, and a spouse can STILL betray you, due to their own psychological issues. Read tears' thread in which she cheated on her perfect husband and broke him, and had to look within to find it was all in her, all her problems. And I think in alot of situations this is the case.
> 
> I am married, and my needs have been discarded, shat upon, spat on, I have been treated like a 2nd class human, I have been denied intimacy of any kind, but have I cheated on my wife?
> 
> Not. In. A. Million. Fcuking. Years.
> 
> I have instead FORCED my reasonable feelings of discontent down her throat, in blunt & unequivocal terms, to ENSURE she got the message. Our ability to communicate was broken, so I spoke in a language she could not ignore because I love her, and want to repair our marriage.
> 
> Only selfish, damaged, childish, and sociopathic people cheat IMO, people too weak and pathetic and worthless to even attempt to work on things, to grow a pair and rise to the challenge. Nope, they'd rather just get their needs met like junkie scum drug addicts, and that's the level they are on.


Wow. Pot. Kettle. Black.

It takes two to tangle IMO. 
Cheating sucks, but nobody is perfect.


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## Toffer

caladan said:


> Wow. Pot. Kettle. Black.
> 
> It takes two to tangle IMO.
> Cheating sucks, but nobody is perfect.


Do you really believe that cheating is always the result of both people in the marriage?

WOW!


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## caladan

Toffer said:


> Do you really believe that cheating is always the result of both people in the marriage?
> 
> WOW!


Oh come on. Did you even read my entire post?

Cheating is ALWAYS the cheaters fault. 

However, the "perfect spouse" is a myth.


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## Toffer

caladan said:


> Oh come on. Did you even read my entire post?
> 
> Cheating is ALWAYS the cheaters fault.
> 
> However, the "perfect spouse" is a myth.


Agree with that.

Your last post came off sounding a little different though

No one is perfect


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