# Why does weight only seem to be an issue if it's the woman who's overweight?



## ku1980rose

I just want to start by saying that I know this is not the issue in every relationship. And that my h has never told me I'm overweight. However we have been married 7 months and he never touches me. At this point I don't think I even want him to until we find a way to fix our underlieing problems that he chooses to ignore. I have been doing weight watchers since January. I've gained 50+ pounds the last 4 or 5 years and it was time to start looking better and being healthier. I recently turned thirty and that was one of the triggers to change. I've lost ten lbs so far and am definitely making healthier eating choices. My h on the other hand seems to be eating more and gaining more weight. He changed jobs and is not very active now in the winter. Today for lunch he ate part of a bag of chiPs, had 2 pepsi's and ate 4 hotdogs. He doesn't seem to realize how unhealthy it is. He is almost 37 and I worry about his cholesterol and his blood pressure because his dad has recently started having health problems. Although he sees how much better I look and feel after only ten lbs he doesn't seem to think it matters that he has a beer belly and continually gains weight. If I put on as much weight as him I would be considered unattractive so why the double standard in societies eyes and how do I make him see what his choices are doing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo

There really isn't much to be done about the double standard. The guidelines for what is attractive to either sex seldom encompasses obesity. That is not to say that heavy people cannot be attractive.

I rant about this ... occasionally ...

Most people are WAY too passive about what and how they eat.

Quick breakdown on your hubbie's lunch ....

3 hot dogs and buns (excluding condiments) - 750 calories
2 16 oz pesis - 400 calories
bag of chips (presuming 2.5 oz) - 375

An overwhelming percentage of the calories in that lunch are sugar and fat. He has already consumed 15 of the 20 grams of saturated fat that are suggested for adults.

At lunch alone, your husband has consumed over 1500 calories.

Once you take the time to stop, and think about what that all means, and presuming the intake equivalent of at least two more similar meals, you have roughly doubled the 2000 - 2400 calorie RDA per day.

Unless your husband is an accomplished endurance athlete, those kind of calorie totals can only result in one thing ... putting on fat.

Congratulations on your success thus far. Learning how, and what to eat, I believe is the bigger hurdle for Americans than ignoring the fact that exercise is good for you.

To be successful, you need both. You can get results with either. You get the benefits of the 'lifestyle' if you do both.

What I have seen on a number of occasions, is a person that embraces a healthy lifestyle, and their partner actually becomes resentful and surprisingly ... unsupportive. 

They used diminishing and dismissive language, all in an effort pull the relationship back into the familiar and unhealthy patterns that they are more secure with. Seen with both men and women.

Stick with it, whether he chooses to step up or keep bellying up.


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## ku1980rose

I agree that there is nothing we can do about a double standard and I also agree that attractiveness doesn't always have to do with physical attraction. Thanks for your post. I hope to continue to lose my weight regardless of what he is doing. It just totally frustrates me, and I needed to rant and here others' views on the subject. He doesn't seem interested in much lately, and I think the eating just goes along with it. When I try to talk to him or say something about how much he is eating, he gets defensive. He has made a bunch of deer jerky and has consumed 2 gallon bags in 2 months all by himself. He seems to eat, eat, eat when he gets started. 

Not being attracted to him didn't start with weight. It is just another thing added on top of everything else. It is all our fights being pushed under the rug by him. It is him not wanting to talk about anything. It is him not talking to his own children for over 2 months. I suppose if we didn't live together and he got his feelings hurt, he would ignore me for months as well. That seems to be his way of dealing with things. Our problems go way beyond his weight gain and eating unhealthy.


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## Blanca

I dont think there is a double standard. I've told my H if he gets fat i'll divorce him. I could never consider marrying someone that didnt take care of their body. that's just gross. 

If you fell in love with this guy while he was like this then you really dont have a leg to stand on. If you have changed and you now want a healthier lifestyle that is wonderful, but forcing that on him is crossing his boundaries.


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## Therealbrighteyes

Blanca said:


> I dont think there is a double standard. I've told my H if he gets fat i'll divorce him. I could never consider marrying someone that didnt take care of their body. that's just gross.
> 
> If you fell in love with this guy while he was like this then you really dont have a leg to stand on. If you have changed and you now want a healthier lifestyle that is wonderful, but forcing that on him is crossing his boundaries.


I disagree. There is most certainly a double standard. A man gets older and he gets distinguished. A woman gets older and well, she is just old. Same with weight. These forums are rife with men talking about how their wives got heavier but if I were to hazard a guess, the men did too. Guys are allowed to gain weight and loose their hair and they will still be viewed in a positive light. Women gain 20 pounds or age and they are viewed as lazy and over the hill. It isn't fair but that is what happens.

As for the OP, congratulations on your new found way of life. Please also consider taking a 30 minute walk at least 3 times a week. Load up your MP3 player with your favorite songs but don't listen to it any other time than while excercising. This then will reinforce that excercise is a treat and not a chore. Great tunes!


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## okeydokie

Blanca said:


> I dont think there is a double standard. I've told my H if he gets fat i'll divorce him. I could never consider marrying someone that didnt take care of their body. that's just gross.
> 
> If you fell in love with this guy while he was like this then you really dont have a leg to stand on. If you have changed and you now want a healthier lifestyle that is wonderful, but forcing that on him is crossing his boundaries.


that in itself is a double standard, havent seen one woman on here advise a man with a "fat" wife that he should divorce her


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## Blanca

okeydokie said:


> that in itself is a double standard, havent seen one woman on here advise a man with a "fat" wife that he should divorce her


Ive seen a couple.


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## Atholk

It's not a double standard, women have a little more tolerance, but I have multiple women I've been in contact with that have the fat husband issue and they hate it.


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## woodstock

I think what it comes down to is that women are more likely NOT to see things once they have an attraction to the person as opposed to the body... Men stay attached to the body, unable to separate the two in heart or head (though it usually happens eventually) 

And ya, there is that stupid double standard and the fact that the world seems to spend every waking minute telling women that they are NOT good enough unless they fit the mold of less than 1% of the freakish population that is the super model, and is also telling men THAT is all that is sexy, so the cards are kinda stacked against us.


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## Blanca

Brennan said:


> I disagree. There is most certainly a double standard. A man gets older and he gets distinguished. A woman gets older and well, she is just old. Same with weight. These forums are rife with men talking about how their wives got heavier but if I were to hazard a guess, the men did too. Guys are allowed to gain weight and loose their hair and they will still be viewed in a positive light. Women gain 20 pounds or age and they are viewed as lazy and over the hill. It isn't fair but that is what happens.


I dont recall the OP saying her H asked her to lose weight. Sounds like he was OK with her just the way she was. Yet she is asking him and threatening to leave if he doesnt. Doesnt sound like the distinguished male scenario you've described. 

If anything the OP is only holding up the stereotype that women marry men and then try and change them.


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## ku1980rose

Blanca said:


> I dont recall the OP saying her H asked her to lose weight. Sounds like he was OK with her just the way she was. Yet she is asking him and threatening to leave if he doesnt. Doesnt sound like the distinguished male scenario you've described.
> 
> If anything the OP is only holding up the stereotype that women marry men and then try and change them.


If you are talking about my original post I never meant to imply I would leave him for this. Just another frustration between my h and I. And I guess I'm looking for what makes him unattractive to me. I think it has a lot more to it than just his health but it is def becoming part of the problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rob774

I don't see it as a double standard at all. I see it as women being less flawed than us men. See women have always been able to "look past" the physical inperfections of a man, and see his inner beauty for what it is. That's why you see 10x as ordinary looking guys ... pull women who are out of thier league than vice versa. Sure i know other things factor in on that, like money, power, status etc. But for most part its true, there are a lot of guys who were just a 7 pull a woman if they are a 9. Whereas how many OK looking women, pull off the Brad Pitt type looking guys??? Very few. We are just too superficial.


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## woodstock

Women have less back up from society if we look at a man and think "Damn, boy is packin it on... EWE!". Meanwhile, damn near EVERYTHING in society is backing up the man (while telling him straight up she should be thin) if he says it, therefore it is just ok, almost expected for them to be more into the looks. Women are allowed to be, but they either look outside the norm if they do, or there is nothing to back up, reassure her that it is OK to think that.

I think women are connected to far more when it comes to attraction. Not too many men would think a seriously physically attractive and sexy women is any uglier for either being a total dope, or even a *****.. nope, she's still hot.... women, on the other hand, will instantly see a man as less attractive if he acts like an ass. Or more attractive if he acts the opposite... we're weird HAHA


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## MsLonely

Because men are more visualised creatures, they're turned on quickly by what looks sexy and flirty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenpearl

I dumped a man who had a big belly! 

Sex with him was difficult! I felt myself dirty for having sex with that man.


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## greenpearl

MsLonely said:


> Because men are more visualised creatures, they're turned on quickly by what looks sexy and flirty.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree! 

I was thinking about this today. 

How should women invest on themselves so they keep their value or become more valuable? 

For example, same money, should she buy a brand name purse or go to facial treatment. I would choose facial treatment because it will help me stay young looking and pretty. 

Same thing with our weight. If we watch out and stay slim and sexy, we look more attractive. When we put on beautiful clothes, they definitely look good on us. 

Confidence is another issue here, we are more confident when we look at our sexy bodies in the mirror. 

Of course, inner beauty is way more important than appearance! 

If we have both, we are hot stocks!


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## MarriedWifeInLove

There IS a double standard--no doubt.

And as Brennan said, and I've said before.

Men believe they get BETTER with age, and they believe their wives just get OLD.

I think that when men age, their vision goes and the reflection they see in the mirror is not what is actually being reflected, but what they wish was looking back at them...LOL

Women, we are always critical of ourselves and that just gets worse as we age - so we see things as they REALLY are.

I am actually now at the same weight when I married, while my husband has gained weight due to his TBI and related meds and medical conditions that make it hard to get the same type of exercise he did before.

Supringsly enough, while I wished he hadn't gained weight - my love for him has made me blind to the weight gain and he looks to me like he always have (hence the reason - love is blind).

For health reasons, he does need to take it off and is trying - but I still love and desire him just the same, if not more.

Go figure...


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## Trenton

I really don't think all men are like this. Even here at TAM, you will find husbands who swear that their wives are perfect despite their age. When a husband truly values his wife, and vice versa, age doesn't take away from a person but adds to his or her beauty because you have all those shared memories to enhance the person you've grown together with.

I think shaky relationships equal shaky sense of self and so weight issues might be more defined, or I've seen here on TAM firsthand, there are handfuls of visual people who can't overlook a person's looks regardless of anything else because it's their top, or very close to their top, priority. I don't think this is the norm.


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## okeydokie

Trenton said:


> I really don't think all men are like this. Even here at TAM, you will find husbands who swear that their wives are perfect despite their age. When a husband truly values his wife, and vice versa, age doesn't take away from a person but adds to his or her beauty because you have all those shared memories to enhance the person you've grown together with.
> 
> I think shaky relationships equal shaky sense of self and so weight issues might be more defined, or I've seen here on TAM firsthand, there are handfuls of visual people who can't overlook a person's looks regardless of anything else because it's their top, or very close to their top, priority. I don't think this is the norm.


yeah, i would be one of them, that still finds his wife very desirable physically. we are late 40s, i still want her and only her. but since she is LD it might be easier if she would get big so i could at least squelch my physical desire for her.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

Trenton said:


> I really don't think all men are like this. Even here at TAM, you will find husbands who swear that their wives are perfect despite their age. When a husband truly values his wife, and vice versa, age doesn't take away from a person but adds to his or her beauty because you have all those shared memories to enhance the person you've grown together with.
> 
> I think shaky relationships equal shaky sense of self and so weight issues might be more defined, or I've seen here on TAM firsthand, there are handfuls of visual people who can't overlook a person's looks regardless of anything else because it's their top, or very close to their top, priority. I don't think this is the norm.


I think it's the exception, not the norm.


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## Trenton

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I think it's the exception, not the norm.


I think that really stinks.


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## chillymorn

men divorce because their wife has gained weight but women divorce because men don't earn enough.

if a man dosn't earn enough for a woman to feel safe then she sends him packing.

if a woman gets fat well you get the picture.


this is very steriotypical not all men and women fall into this steriotype


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## Runs like Dog

Well if that were true the whole world would look different. Most and by most I mean MOST adults are overweight.


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## SimplyAmorous

ku1980rose said:


> If I put on as much weight as him I would be considered unattractive so why the double standard in societies eyes and how do I make him see what his choices are doing?


(I did not read all of these replies) - Because Men are more "visually" stimulated, God created them this way, been this way from the beginning of time. And women "generally" care more about how they are treated, they would rather READ a Romance Novel instead of look at Porn, the visuals just don't do it -for us --as much as for men. 

ONe of the reasons I was attracted to my husband was his very thin body, I like my men THIN, he knows if he gained even 20 lbs, I would be complaining. I don't even like Guys with muscles too much, too much bulk on a six pack is not appealing to me personally. We all know what we like, I consider myself to be visual I guess, these things matter to me.


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## Deejo

Shouldn't come as a secret to anyone that men and women often value, or are attracted to different things from a partnering perspective.

Many men put a premium on beauty and shape. There are studies galore, as to why this is, I don't feel compelled to defend or question those reasons. It's a moot point.

My opinion is that women are _more likely_ to overlook physical qualities in a partner if there are non-physical attraction points.
Such as a great sense of humor, emotional compatibility, great with kids, good provider, confidence, success, money, power, etc.

Do I think there is a cabal of old, balding, fat guys setting the agenda that women over 40 are no longer desirable, and men should only find twenty-something underwear models attractive? Umm ... no. 

I didn't decide to dump my 39 year old wife, because she was 39, or because she was fat.

We parted ways as a direct result of built-up resentment, which manifests over time. Time is the enemy. Not age. I think killing off attraction is far more about what happens over TIME in a non-prosperous relationship, rather than the changes that time inflicts on our bodies, whether it's a pooch, beer belly, bald pate, or muffin top.

That said, I have no intention of marching quietly into middle age without a fight.

I value fitness and shape far more than beauty. As a result, I find those things ... beautiful, and extremely attractive.

Undoubtedly as I have cited previously, everybody carries a degree of bias into this kind of a discussion.

In the OP's case, what will invariably happen if she continues to be successful, loses weight, looks better, feels better, and undoubtedly starts attracting the gaze of other men; and her husband does nothing to curb his hot dog scarfing, and the other elements that have contributed to his spouses lack of attraction for him ... then the relationship will continue to destabilize. Eventually, SHE will hit threshold and need to make a choice about whether she leaves or stays.

And that's where more stereotyping comes into play. If she becomes a bomb-shell, and he remains a slob ... people will presume that she left him because he's fat, and she decided she could trade up. And that will be no where near the truth of the matter.

Same story whether you are a man or a woman.


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## Deejo

Runs like Dog said:


> Well if that were true the whole world would look different. Most and by most I mean MOST adults are overweight.


Most AMERICAN adults are overweight. Sadly, obesity appears to be one of our biggest exports.

I have done my share of traveling. I simply do not find the above to be the case, to the extent it is in the states. What
I find more horrifying is the case of young people, and the rate of obesity.

People 'settle' for this truth, and I think that's what I have the biggest problem with. 

I agree that there is a double standard. But I don't agree that it exists within the framework that has been outlined.


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## sntdwn2ufrmhvn

i get what you are saying... hubby gained lots of weight while i was preggo...and i lost most of my weight (still working on it), and he didn't lose, he just keeps gaining. it's really taking a toll on our sex life, as he sweats more, stops during more, doesn't stay hard, and literally looks like he's pregnant. i love him, but honestly i could care less to have sex right now...he's not attractive at all anymore and sex sucks...


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## MarriedWifeInLove

Trenton said:


> I think that really stinks.


:iagree: but you can't change the "looks are everything" society we live in and women's and men's magazines each and every day show us that to be popular and well liked and successful, you have to be thin and gorgeous.

Doesn't make it right - but it is what it is unfortunately.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

chillymorn said:


> men divorce because their wife has gained weight but women divorce because men don't earn enough.
> 
> if a man dosn't earn enough for a woman to feel safe then she sends him packing.
> 
> if a woman gets fat well you get the picture.
> 
> 
> this is very steriotypical not all men and women fall into this steriotype


I don't think the "men don't earn enough" is as important today as it used to be.

You have a lot more SAHD and a lot more women that are the major bread winner's in the family. That line is getting more blurred all the time.

"If a woman gets fat well you get the picture." This is still true today, for the most part.

Internet porn doesn't help (yes I went there - but that's for another thread).


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## chillymorn

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I don't think the "men don't earn enough" is as important today as it used to be.
> 
> You have a lot more SAHD and a lot more women that are the major bread winner's in the family. That line is getting more blurred all the time.
> 
> "If a woman gets fat well you get the picture." This is still true today, for the most part.
> 
> Internet porn doesn't help (yes I went there - but that's for another thread).


I know 2 SAHD that they are getting grief from their wives who orginally though it was great they could have their career and the husband who earned less should logicaly stay at home with the kids. they both tell me the wife has no respect for them and are threating to leave because they feel like they were left out of the child rearing and a man is supost to be the earner.


and in both cases the man put them throught school so they could earn more.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

chillymorn said:


> I know 2 SAHD that they are getting grief from their wives who orginally though it was great they could have their career and the husband who earned less should logicaly stay at home with the kids. they both tell me the wife has no respect for them and are threating to leave because they feel like they were left out of the child rearing and a man is supost to be the earner.
> 
> 
> and in both cases the man put them throught school so they could earn more.


You reap what you sow, huh?

Guys would probably be better off without them - they'll never be satisifed.


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## debrajean

sntdwn2ufrmhvn said:


> i get what you are saying... hubby gained lots of weight while i was preggo...and i lost most of my weight (still working on it), and he didn't lose, he just keeps gaining. it's really taking a toll on our sex life, as he sweats more, stops during more, doesn't stay hard, and literally looks like he's pregnant. i love him, but honestly i could care less to have sex right now...he's not attractive at all anymore and sex sucks...


Unfortunately, this seems to be prevalent in long-married couples. One continues to take care of themselves while the other slacks off. I believe it's not always simply the changes in a person's looks that cause the loss of attraction...I believe it may also be the fact that the other just doesn't seem to think it matters. That slacking off is preferable to making any effort to be healthy. Laziness is a big turn-off for many people. Encouraging someone to get moving, sometimes comes across as nagging, so I say work on yourself and don't worry as much about your partner. When your partner sees how healthy you're becoming and how attractive you are to the opposite sex, that may be all the motivation a slacker needs.


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## ku1980rose

woodstock said:


> .
> I think women are connected to far more when it comes to attraction. Not too many men would think a seriously physically attractive and sexy women is any uglier for either being a total dope, or even a *****.. nope, she's still hot.... women, on the other hand, will instantly see a man as less attractive if he acts like an ass. Or more attractive if he acts the opposite... we're weird HAHA


I totally agree with this! I find guys more attractive based on their personalities. And I know that men can be attracted to B****** just because they are "hot". Maybe this is more my problem with my h. With all of our fighting and everything else, he is just not attractive to me anymore. However, I never was totally attracted to him physically. It was more because he was a good guy. Now, I'm wondering if I should've thought about the physical attraction more because I have absolutely no physical pull to be with my h.


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## chillymorn

every mans worst nightmare I married you because you were nice but I never was really attracted to you.

I think you need both for a marriage to survive.

if my wife told me that it would be over I don't think I could have sex with someone who wasn't attracted to me in the back of my mind it would always be a pitty fok.

no thanks! I'd rather use my hand.


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## EnjoliWoman

I always battled weight from childhood up. I got down to a size 9/10 or so (I'm 5'7") when I was 20 and met my husband. I got up to a 13/14 at times. He used to be very fit but seemed to not notice that he had a gut - it was like he still thought he was an adonis! He even measured my biceps when I was pregnant to compare to his, telling me I was getting too fat and he didn't marry a fat woman.

Self esteem and weight have always been issues. After I left I actually gained - I felt free to not have the pressure to please him, and got up to 200lbs. (130 when we met) 

I decided I'd just be the best ME I can be. I work out 3x a week and really enjoy healthy food and make nutritionally balanced meals. I have portion control issues and try to stick to high fiber foods to fill me up. But health-wise no issues - good BP, good cholesterol levels, decent aerobic conditioning. Weak upper body strength and not as flexible as I'd like. But healthy as a freakin horse.

I tend to like beefier guys - Love broad shoulders and thick build - I think it feels protective to me and that's the appeal. 

I feel good that my current BF liked me the way I was when we met enough to date me. It's very freeing to know that he cares even at this size whereas my ex did not. This does not mean I want us to gain - I want to stay active and enjoy life, including good food and wine. And as long as a little extra padding doesn't hurt our health, I'm fine with it.


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## EnjoliWoman

And sorry to resurrect old thread - damn those freaking "Similar Threads" at the bottom...


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## tjohnson

women are more tollerant and interested in personality. 

Men are more visual and well...shallow in this way. 

Sorry guys for the most part we are.


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## 40isthenew20

The OP is 100% correct. Men should be held to some kind of acceptable weight "standard" just as much as any woman. It sickens me when I see some flabby guy pulling into the McD's drive-thru, so I can imagine how his wife must feel when he gets home with those new ketchup stains on his shirt. 

My wife went nuts trying to lose weight following both pregnancies and although she is not the same stick figure I married, she looks fantastic and is a thin person. 

I also take pride in my personal appearance and bust my butt in the gym and eat only clean foods. I do it for myself, of course, but also because I want to look good for my wife.


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## Chelle D

I disagree with the weight only being an issue if it's the woman who's overweight.

Ask a 300lb young man how many relationships he's had. Ask him how he feels about his body.

Ask a 300 lb young lady how many relationships she's had. Ask her how she feels about her body.

My guess is 19 out of 20 times, You'd get just about the same responses.


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## FirstYearDown

This thread makes me feel very fortunate. Despite both of us gaining weight, my husband and I still love each other and have a great sex life built on mutual attraction.

Strangely, we receive a lot of compliments on how happy and healthy we both look. My husband's aunts say that their nephew looks like he's eating some good food.

I know will drop some pounds once I come off the birth control pill; that is what always happens when I stop taking hormonal BC. I have also changed my eating habits.


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## Caribbean Man

There is no double standard.
A good friend of ours [ my wife and I ], husband has put on tremendous weight.
They are both highly educated professionals.
He has a high paying job in a global financial institution, and she also has a very good job that entails travelling all over the world.

She confides in my wife that their sex life is horrible and she is completely turned off by his weight gain. He also has terrible self esteem problems which he has never had before. Behind closed doors, they fight constantly about sex. He accuses her of having affairs with multiple nebulous partners. All figments of his imagination. She cries constantly to my wife ,and is depressed. She has maintained her size , she is slim and very attractive.
His weight issues make her very depressed.
Over the years she has tried to motivate him , she does anything to help him .

I work out in the gym because I love my body.
My wife works out because she loves her body.We both appreciate a healthy lifestyle, 
No double standard here.


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## MaritimeGuy

I've played co-ed volleyball for a number of years. I see the same people a lot although I don't really know them personally. If after the summer break a woman shows up having lost a lot of weight and looking particularly good you can almost bet money on the fact she's split with her partner. It makes me wonder why they don't put the same effort into looking good when they were married as they do when they're single. 

Men might be the same but I don't tend to make note of men's bodies as much. :scratchhead:

As an aside with respect to body image I love the attached cartoon


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## memyselfandi

I've always had an issue with this so called "double standard" in society. Women are supposed to be thin and attractive no matter their age...while as men age..they get bulging middles, receding hairlines and nobodies supposed to notice.

In my opinion a person has to feel comfortable in their own skin and no matter what you weigh..if your beauty doesn't come from within...I don't care whatcha look like on the outside.

I'm not saying that it's okay to just let yourself go as that's not even healthy, but as a person ages and their metabolism changes..we all put on a few extra lbs here and there and fighting the battle of the bulge gets more difficult.

Nobody is going to be the size they were in high school forever..age gracefully people!!


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## in my tree

Deejo said:


> There really isn't much to be done about the double standard. The guidelines for what is attractive to either sex seldom encompasses obesity. That is not to say that heavy people cannot be attractive.


I have to respectfully disagree here. There is something that we can all do about this (the double standard) but to be honest so many of us choose not to. We need to stop buying those fashion magazines that put _only_ waif like women in them. We need to teach both our young girls and boys that they are both worth more than their outside appearance and we ourselves need to catch and stop ourselves when we personally judge others. That double standard would diminsh if we would all just think about how we treat/judge others.


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## in my tree

EnjoliWoman said:


> And sorry to resurrect old thread - damn those freaking "Similar Threads" at the bottom...


lol - I didn't even notice that.


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## Thundarr

I certainly don't have a double standard about weight gain. If I'm too heavy then I feel like crap and like I'm not attractive. 
I venture to say "slim muscular me" is better looking to all women than "fat lazy me". For that matter "heavy muscular me" is not so bad.
If my wife were to gain a bunch of weight then I might lose some sexual attraction to her depending on how she gained it. I'd still love her but realistically I can't make the little guy rise if he doesn't like what he sees. Maybe she'll gain weight and I'll learn how naive I currently am because my love for her will do it for me anyway.

Since my wife and many women want to feel protected and safe, I could get away with some weight gain. Now let me put on 40lbs pot belly and I bet things don't work that way then. Along the same lines if my wife puts on weight and keeps her shape then she's likely still attractive. If she looks pregnant when she's not though I would find that unattractive.


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## Ten_year_hubby

ku1980rose said:


> If I put on as much weight as him I would be considered unattractive so why the double standard in societies eyes and how do I make him see what his choices are doing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Scientific research has shown that couples are happier when the husband is larger than the wife, no matter how large that is.


----------



## tjohnson

in my tree said:


> I have to respectfully disagree here. There is something that we can all do about this (the double standard) but to be honest so many of us choose not to. We need to stop buying those fashion magazines that put _only_ waif like women in them. We need to teach both our young girls and boys that they are both worth more than their outside appearance and we ourselves need to catch and stop ourselves when we personally judge others. That double standard would diminsh if we would all just think about how we treat/judge others.


Yes and the kicker here is how many women buy these magazines. and to boot,the publishers must have discovered that their audience (largely women-my wife included) MUST buy more magazines if they put the waif on the cover. 

This is not progress for the women's movement.


----------



## missmolly

tjohnson said:


> Yes and the kicker here is how many women buy these magazines. and to boot,the publishers must have discovered that their audience (largely women-my wife included) MUST buy more magazines if they put the waif on the cover.
> 
> This is not progress for the women's movement.


I don't understand this post - why would having a waif on the cover make women buy it? I NEVER buy magazines, a few minutes leafing through in the doctor's waiting room is always enough to remind me why I never buy them.


Also, fat does not always imply lazy. My husband works extremely hard, puts in long hours, and rarely does 'nothing' after hours. He is always doing something and achieves an awful lot in a day. He is still much bigger than he should be. 
He eats less than I do and I really feel sorry for how he struggles with weight. I could push for more gym time but when he gets home after a 10hour minimum work day, he is really exhausted. He is 64.


----------



## mel123

OP...Your question was "why the double standard in societies eyes" concerning weight.

Let me ask you this question, with a different twist "why the double standard in societies eyes" for SHORT GUYS. For the most part women will not even consider guys under about 5' 7" as a mate.

Individuals (male or female) have no control over height but they do with weight.


----------



## cloudwithleggs

mel123 said:


> OP...Your question was "why the double standard in societies eyes" concerning weight.
> 
> Let me ask you this question, with a different twist "why the double standard in societies eyes" for SHORT GUYS. For the most part women will not even consider guys under about 5' 7" as a mate.
> 
> Individuals (male or female) have no control over height but they do with weight.


I will never date short men again, both my ex partner and estranged were around 5' 7" and i'm 5' 6", my family are all tall brothers 6' 3" range.

So nothing under 5' 10" preferably 6' for me from now on, because in 5" heels i'm 5' 11"


----------



## Thundarr

Re: Why does weight only seem to be an issue if it's the woman who's overweight?

The book "his needs/her needs" defines this better than we can.

Sure more men find physical appearance of their SO important compared to women but that's not always the case. I think the problem is when people are one thing when they marry and then become different later. Of course everyone's going to gain some weight with age.

The example in the book is a girl who was working and was attractive. (had lost a bunch of weight). After marriage though she quit her job and gained a bunch of weight back. Hubby wasn't so concerned about the job but had big problems with the weight which wife thought was shallow. 

Dr Harley explained to her that one of hubby's primary needs was for her to be attractive which is part of why he married her. Had he gained weight and quit his job she would have been very concerned about him not having a job but not so much about his weight. It pointed out that financial security was one of her critical needs and attractiveness was one of his.

It also pointed out that the real problem was false advertisement in her case.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Thundarr said:


> If my wife were to gain a bunch of weight then I might lose some sexual attraction to her depending on how she gained it. I'd still love her but realistically I can't make the little guy rise if he doesn't like what he sees.


I like to ask my husband random questions... basically when I asked him this one....he answers... if I gained too much, he wouldn't be able to get it up with a crane...he added he'd always love me, never leave me ...but the "desire" would dry up.... 

I wasn't offended cause I am very much like him... a beer belly wouldn't cut it for me either. I care more about looks than a man's job -pretty much... So long as we can pay the bills, at least we'd still be having good sex. I'd choose living in a barn with a hot man over higher class Suburbs -where I could shop till I dropped ~ while watcting the young Gardner outside might be a temptation. That life would never be for me. 



> Dr Harley explained to her that one of hubby's primary needs was for her to be attractive which is part of why he married her. Had he gained weight and quit his job she would have been very concerned about him not having a job but not so much about his weight. It pointed out that financial security was one of her critical needs and attractiveness was one of his.


 This is generally how it works - in comparing the sexes... I am more like a guy in this regard - the scales tipped towards the visual over social status.


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## mel123

when wife & I were married she was 4'11" and weighed 112lb. She was a knock out, all the right curves and had long hair which I adored on her........5 years later weight 180 and she cut her hair to above her ears and said "its easier to take care of short"..and made me feel like she didn't want sex and treated me like I was a pervert for wanting it ....Do women realize the pain they can bring to someone they are supposed to love?...I guess I am just venting .........I haven't cheated or dumped her.


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## FalconKing

To be fair there are a lot of double standards. Or as like to put it, men and women value different things. I do try to stay and shape and be health conscious. But I also expect someone i'm in a relationship with to stay attractive for me. If my wife wanted to not work and me support her, I would hope that she wouldn't at least mind me being visually attracted to her.


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## Thundarr

mel123 said:


> when wife & I were married she was 4'11" and weighed 112lb. She was a knock out, all the right curves and had long hair which I adored on her........5 years later weight 180 and she cut her hair to above her ears and said "its easier to take care of short"..and made me feel like she didn't want sex and treated me like I was a pervert for wanting it ....Do women realize the pain they can bring to someone they are supposed to love?...I guess I am just venting .........I haven't cheated or dumped her.


She's not holding up her end of the marriage at all. If her appearance was important enough for her to land a man like you then it has to be enough for her to keep you. If she wanted a man who didn't care about how she looked then maybe short hair and sweats would have been better attire when she was dating you so you'd know what to look forward to. If she wanted to attract the type of man who would love her at 100 or 300 lbs then why put so much work in to looking good to grab a guy. (yes I'm assuming she worked her arse off to look good and then got lazy once she got her guy).


----------



## MaritimeGuy

mel123 said:


> when wife & I were married she was 4'11" and weighed 112lb. She was a knock out, all the right curves and had long hair which I adored on her........5 years later weight 180 and she cut her hair to above her ears and said "its easier to take care of short"..and made me feel like she didn't want sex and treated me like I was a pervert for wanting it ....Do women realize the pain they can bring to someone they are supposed to love?...I guess I am just venting .........I haven't cheated or dumped her.


Sadly, I'd be willing to bet if you split with her she would lose a bunch of weight and do her hair nice to attract a new man.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Thundarr said:


> Of course everyone's going to gain some weight with age.


That doesn't have to be true. If you take care of yourself you can stay in great shape your whole life. It's never too late to make your health a priority. My partner took up triathlon in her forties (before I met her). Now she's in better shape than she was in her 20's. What attracted me to her was that she had the body of a 20 year old but carried herself with the confidence of a woman more than twice that age.


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## FalconKing

MaritimeGuy said:


> Sadly, I'd be willing to bet if you split with her she would lose a bunch of weight and do her hair nice to attract a new man.


^Funny how that works right? We want to feel empowered and attractive. This attracts people to us. Then when we have someone we want we permanently cross that off our list of things to do. How counterproductive is that??


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## Caribbean Man

MaritimeGuy said:


> That doesn't have to be true. If you take care of yourself you can stay in great shape your whole life. It's never too late to make your health a priority. My partner took up triathlon in her forties (before I met her). Now she's in better shape than she was in her 20's. What attracted me to her was that she had the body of a 20 year old but carried herself with the confidence of a woman more than twice that age.


I am in my forties and the only additional weight I put on is muscle.
My waistline is about 34", 
I'm 6" 6", and my weight is 225lbs.


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## FalconKing

Caribbean Man said:


> I am in my forties and the only additional weight I put on is muscle.
> My waistline is about 34",
> I'm 6" 6", and my weight is 225lbs.


BEAST MODE! CB did you play basketball?


----------



## Caribbean Man

FalconKing said:


> BEAST MODE! CB did you play basketball?


Nah.
I used to play for my college team back then.
Now I only lift heavy irons.

But fat was never a problem for me.
I guess I was blessed with good genetics.


----------



## MaritimeGuy

Up until my early to mid 30's I could eat anything I wanted and stay slim. Now I have to work at it and watch what I eat. My body type is such that if I didn't work out I'd have skinny shoulders and a pot belly. Not at all an attractive figure. 

I like being in shape. At 45 I can still do anything I did in my 20's. In the past five years I've done 3 marathons, 2 half ironmans, numerous half marathons and shorter distance triathlons. I still play competitive volleyball and when the young guys are running out of steam I've still got energy to spare...and I recover faster. I plan on staying young until the day I die.


----------



## Starstarfish

The societal double standard on attractiveness is a given. Celebrity women gain five pounds and they are "ballooning" and "packing it on." I've yet to see anyone with an expose on Tim Curry compared to how he looked in Rocky Horror. 

However, yes, there's a double standard in regards to responses on this board as well. If a wife gains weight, people will begin naming books, or statistics that back up how "wrong" it is. They'll claim she's a "bait and switcher" - that she's lazy, that she doesn't value her husband, that she's selfish. People will become medical experts and make claims there are no medical conditions that cause weight gain. People will suggest considering divorce, throwing out adages that they would "never be married to a woman like that," etc. etc. 

However, from the threads I've read, responses are generally far softer and kinder if the weight gain is on the husband's side. Then the suggestions are more bent towards, change your diet, exercise with him, encourage him. 

Which, suggestions like that are made on "fat wife" threads too, but, it's intermixed with more vitriol. People don't claim that heavy husbands are "cheating on you with food" or "a bait and switch."


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## MaritimeGuy

I think if there is a double standard it's because women are more forgiving than men when it comes to appearance.


----------



## Starstarfish

Women are more forgiving towards their own men when it comes to appearance, but as any high school locker room, or reading threads on here will show, women aren't neccessarily more forgiving towards other women about weight. 

Some are, some aren't.


----------



## aribabe

I think it's because women are mostly admired for their looks and beauty. While men are admired for their wealth and power, and having an attractive woman on their arm. My husband is overweight, and I am just fine with that, though I would like him to lose about 50lbs for health reasons. On the other hand, I think my husband would be turned off if I gained significant weight. I'm about 113lbs now, I don't believe he'd be sexually attracted to me at 160+ lbs. He NEEDS for me to look nice/sexy when we go out, and I can acept that. I think that maintaing my body is an important aspect of my femininity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MaritimeGuy

aribabe said:


> My husband is overweight, and I am just fine with that,


I think you will find more woman who feel this way about their husbands then men who feel that way about their wives. 50 lbs is a lot of extra weight to be carrying around.


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## aribabe

I think women tend to be more forgiving than men regarding looks. I think that "good" wives can and try to make their husband feel like a hot to trot sexy adonis even if he's fat, balding, beer gut, too hairy, etc lol. 

Men are less forgiving and more likely to tell the wife she's too fat. I think it's an unfair double standard. but it exists...

In regards to my husband... he's been overweight since i met him. Less so though, maybe 20lbs over, but the pounds have packed on over the years and is a factor in his now having diabetes and high blood pressure. The weight loss would be very beneficial for his health. But i find him to be sexy at pretty much any weight.



MaritimeGuy said:


> I think you will find more woman who feel this way about their husbands then men who feel that way about their wives. 50 lbs is a lot of extra weight to be carrying around.


----------



## cloudwithleggs

aribabe said:


> In regards to my husband... he's been overweight since i met him. Less so though, maybe 20lbs over, but the pounds have packed on over the years and is a factor in his now having diabetes and high blood pressure. The weight loss would be very beneficial for his health. But i find him to be sexy at pretty much any weight.


Well if he carry's on that way you can wave good bye to his erection and then your sex life.


----------



## jaquen

The double standard is widely overblown.

I mean have most of you actually taken the time to look at most married people? Typically husbands and wives are of comparable levels of attraction. Couples where one is far more conventionally attractive, or fit, than their mate stand out like a sore thumb because they are so rare.

If men were the superficial louts suggested, and women collectively see mostly "inner beauty", why aren't we seeing most men married to drop dead gorgeous, in shape, sexy women? 

As it stands there are millions upon millions of unattractive, plain, too fat, too skinny, fill in the blank, wives out here who are married. And usually they're paired with men who are in their bracket of widely perceived "attractiveness". 

Lots, and lots of women are being "forgiven" daily for their weight issues.

The bottom line is that there are both women and men who won't abide obesity and fatness, just as there are plenty who will.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

jaquen said:


> Couples where one is far more conventionally attractive, or fit, than their mate stand out like a sore thumb because they are so rare.


I have to disagree with this. Maybe it's regional but I see couples where the woman is more fit and or attractive than the husband alot!!

Just take a look at some of the reality shows that are local to my area. Look at Duck Dynasty. That is typical around here. I think women are way more forgiving than men when it comes to looks. And even more forgiving than normal when money is involved apparently! LOL Heck look at Donald Trump. No way in an "average" world would he bag some of the women he's had.


----------



## aribabe

We are already battling some ED issues, but it's alright. We have lots of alternatives, toys, oral, porn etc. :smthumbup:

But the weight hugely affects his self esteem, and that impacts me, in alot of ways that i don't like. So i have to work on that. 

We are working on his weight loss, but it's tough for him. He works out regularly but is not always as strict with his eating as he should be. Me being so thin and being such a 'whatever' eater probably doesn't help much either.



cloudwithleggs said:


> Well if he carry's on that way you can wave good bye to his erection and then your sex life.


----------



## jaquen

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I have to disagree with this. Maybe it's regional but I see couples where the woman is more fit and or attractive than the husband alot!!
> 
> Just take a look at some of the reality shows that are local to my area. Look at Duck Dynasty. That is typical around here. I think women are way more forgiving than men when it comes to looks. And even more forgiving than normal when money is involved apparently! LOL Heck look at Donald Trump. No way in an "average" world would he bag some of the women he's had.


Donald Trump is an extremely wealthy man. Elements like wealth, fame, or high social standing skew the pool in all directions, regardless of sex. I mean Donatella Versace has no problems landing attractive young men.

Outside of where I live, NYC, which has an abnormally high concentration of "beautiful people", at least in Manhattan, most of the married couples I've seen in this country are pretty normal looking, average to out of shape people. I have much less often seen super fit, super gorgeous wives outside of this city. But I have seen endless wives who are chubby, pudgy, obese, plain, unattractive, and unexceptional in the looks department on the whole. 

So I guess I'm trying to figure out where is all this concrete proof that men are soooo superficial when soooo many "regular women" are married. Because, again, if we were anywhere near as superficial as suggested, and women as open minded and interested in inner beauty, why aren't most men married to models and the like?


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

jaquen said:


> Donald Trump is an extremely wealthy man. Elements like wealth, fame, or high social standing skew the pool in all directions, regardless of sex. I mean Donatella Versace has no problems landing attractive young men.
> 
> Outside of where I live, NYC, which has an abnormally high concentration of "beautiful people", at least in Manhattan, most of the married couples I've seen in this country are pretty normal looking, average to out of shape people. I have much less often seen super fit, super gorgeous wives outside of this city. But I have seen endless wives who are chubby, pudgy, obese, plain, unattractive, and unexceptional in the looks department on the whole.
> 
> So I guess I'm trying to figure out where is all this concrete proof that men are soooo superficial when soooo many "regular women" are married. Because, again, if we were anywhere near as superficial as suggested, and women as open minded and interested in inner beauty, why aren't most men married to models and the like?


One thing is for sure for every debate there is usually always proof on each side. I am saying I see it as fairly common around here to see a man who shall we say "married up" in the looks dept. I am not saying all the women are supermodels either. Some may be exceptionally attractive and some may seem average but the husbands tend to not be of the same attractiveness in "my neck of the woods".


----------



## jaquen

HopelesslyJaded said:


> One thing is for sure for every debate there is usually always proof on each side. I am saying I see it as fairly common around here to see a man who shall we say "married up" in the looks dept. I am not saying all the women are supermodels either. Some may be exceptionally attractive and some may seem average but the husbands tend to not be of the same attractiveness in "my neck of the woods".


Then lets remove our respective "necks of the woods" out of the equation.

Article about the prevalence of weight gain after marriage in both men and women:
First Comes Love, Then Comes Obesity? - TIME

Data showing that nearly half of the married women in the US are overweight and obese:
Is Marriage Good for your Health? Research Stats say Yes, with Some Exceptions | Counseling and Life Coaching - Find a Counselor

Government data about the current overweight and obese statistics in the US:
*Q: How many adults age 20 and older are overweight or obese (Body Mass Index, or BMI, > 25)?

A: *Over two-thirds of U.S. adults are overweight or obese.[4]

All adults: 68 percent
Women: 64.1 percent
Men: 72.3 percent

*Q: How many adults age 20 and older are obese (BMI > 30)?

A:* Over one-third of U.S. adults are obese.[4]

All adults: 33.8 percent
Women: 35.5 percent
Men: 32.2 percent

*Q: How many adults age 20 and older are at a healthy weight (BMI > 18.5 to < 25)?

A:* Less than one-third of U.S. adults are at a healthy weight.[5]

All adults: 31.6 percent
Women: 36.5 percent
Men: 26.6 percent

WIN - Statistics

The majority of adult women in this country are overweight to obese. Only a third of women are at a "healthy weight". 

Nearly half of the women in this country are married, and nearly half of them are overweight to obese.

It seems a lot more men are with overweight/obese women than can be suggested by the "men are shallow" camp.


----------



## sandc

I am overweight and let me tell you women are pretty shallow too. My weight has never been an issue with my wife because in her culture it's not that big a deal. She aint white and she ain't from around here. She also ain't replaceable.


----------



## jaquen

sandc said:


> *I am overweight and let me tell you women are pretty shallow too.*


That certainly has been my experience. I grew up as a fat kid/teen, and despite being a sweet, respectful guy, I was always sloshed over into the friend category time and again.

As soon as I hit 19 and lost a ton of weight, and built muscles, suddenly I had the most gorgeous girls interested in me.

Same me, different body, different level of attention from women.


----------



## IndiaInk

My mom always complained about my Dad's weight (but then, my mom sort of struggled with anorexic tendencies her whole life)

And when I was in junior high I used to babysit for a doctor and his SAHM/aerobics instructor wife

Pretty much every time she'd drive me home, she'd complain about her husbands weight

And he truly wasn't fat at all, but he didn't work out like she did, if anything, I thought he was sort of "scrawny and small"

Considering her life seemed pretty awesome,I felt it was an odd, non-issue to complain about

Well, they eventually divorced, and she's now married to a younger ,fitness buff 

Anyway, my point is, I don't think this is as gender-specific as it seems

I honestly think it has more to do with one's own self-esteem.

In my experience, people who are genuinely satisfied with how they look, and happy with themselves as a whole, tend to be more accepting of there spouse's looks

The ones who aren't, find faults in their spouse


----------



## AbsolutelyFree

Wow, those numbers are really incredible. I knew that a lot of people in the United States were overweight, but I didn't know it was so bad that *72%* of men are overweight. Wow.

Signed,
-A non-overweight man


----------



## Thinkitthrough

Fat is the corrollary of Sex.Being Fat doesn't kill a marriage, but it kills sex. Being Fat can turn a good marriage to amidling one, a midling one bad and a bad one into a fiasco (sex doesn't make the marriage, but it makes a good marriage fantastic, a midling marriage good etc.) I have always been fat, and yes it weighed (pun) on our marriage. Two things about being fat (at least for me)Being told that if I didn't lose weight I would die doesn't help, nor does offers of more sex even the threat of divorce. Second: Weight loss involves some understanding of why your use food as a pain killer and solving the problem.


----------



## missmolly

cloudwithleggs said:


> I will never date short men again, both my ex partner and estranged were around 5' 7" and i'm 5' 6", my family are all tall brothers 6' 3" range.
> 
> So nothing under 5' 10" preferably 6' for me from now on, because in 5" heels i'm 5' 11"



and then after age 60 or so, you'll shrink an inch or so!!!!


----------



## AFEH

jaquen said:


> That certainly has been my experience. I grew up as a fat kid/teen, and despite being a sweet, respectful guy, I was always sloshed over into the friend category time and again.
> 
> As soon as I hit 19 and lost a ton of weight, and built muscles, suddenly I had the most gorgeous girls interested in me.
> 
> Same me, different body, different level of attention from women.


It wasn't the same you. One of you was unhealthy and probably indicating a lot of internal troubles, low self esteem and others. The other guy is a healthy looking guy.

Two very different people.


----------



## jaquen

stritle said:


> that's almost unbelievable.
> i wonder if they are using some discretion with the numbers or just hard lining on* BMI results that aren't truly representative of fitness level?*


Fitness level is inconsequential. The amount of people who are "overweight/obese" according to BMI charts, but who in actuality have low bodyfat levels, but high weight due to significant musculature, are in an extreme minority. 

Most people who fall into the overweight/obese category on the typical BMI charts are just that, overweight and obese.



AFEH said:


> It wasn't the same you. One of you was unhealthy and probably indicating a lot of internal troubles, low self esteem and others. The other guy is a healthy looking guy.
> 
> Two very different people.


Actually it was the same me. I lost the weight rather swiftly, and my mind/emotions didn't catch up to my new physique. I had the exact same self esteem issues, and developed a case of body dysmorphia where I could not see that I was a fit, healthy looking young guy, despite losing over 70 lbs and carving out a more muscular frame. When looking in the mirror I still saw the same old fat guy; all I saw was that I hadn't reached my ultimate goals, and could not see at all that I was already 90% there. My reaction to the gorgeous girls now making their intentions known was that of abject shock, or in a lot of cases, looking back, total ignorance and denial; on more than one occasion I had to be told that a woman was interested in me, and even then I had questions as to why she'd be interested in ME of all people. Eventually gained back all the weight because, at the time, I couldn't fathom what I was giving up. My sense of self, my broken image, did not change when I did my first body transformation.

So like I said, same me.


----------



## Caribbean Man

sandc said:


> I am overweight and let me tell you women are pretty shallow too. My weight has never been an issue with my wife because in her culture it's not that big a deal. She aint white and she ain't from around here. *She also ain't replaceable.*


Big respect my Caribbean brother,
Yes mon!:smthumbup:


----------



## FalconKing

stritle said:


> hmmmmm, Louisiana.......may have to check that out.


It depends on what part stritle. I live in a small town. There are a few women my age who work out regularly and maintain a healthy body/standard of living here. Maybe like 5. Mostly the culture expects you to be fat. We eat good here and it's expected that once you settle down you become a fatass. I worked out with some amateur bodybuilders and got a lot of definition. I was living away at the time. I was lean 182 on a 5'10 frame. When I came back home my dad told me I looked sick and unhealthy. WTF?! I love my father but after that insult to my hardwork and dedication I let him have it with the man boobs shots

And Jaquen I had the exact same experiences. It's kind of funny. A lady friend of mine never showed any interest in me. But when I leaned up and put on some quality mass(Then I got a decent job and bought me a sports car). She has been trying to sleep with me ever since.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Where I live,
More men are overweight. Women pack the gyms and fitness clubs.

Maybe its because women outnumber men about 10 : 1 so they have to work harder to attract and keep a male?
I'm just speculating here.

But men tend to be more overweight.


----------



## FalconKing

Yeah I know what you mean stritle.

Here, if you go to New Orleans, Lafayette, Baton Rouge or Shreveport there are A LOT of fit and attractive women. I go out to those places and enjoy the nightlife sometimes. But then I leave after a few hours of dancing because I don't drink:yawn2:

I guess I could try to meet girls in church. But it may be slightly odd to drive a few hours to big cities, showing up at random churches and looking for hot girls. Seriously, the biggest issue with that is gas money........


----------



## frootloop

Caribbean Man said:


> Maybe its because women outnumber men about 10 : 1 so they have to work harder to attract and keep a male?


10 to 1! Where is that, precisely? 

I live in the South SF Bay, near San Jose, and the high-tech industry pulls in the guys - I'd say its 1:3 here, and I have noticed a larger difference in sex rank pairings, with what I'd consider an above-average looking guy dating/married to a less attractive woman.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> Yeah I know what you mean stritle.
> 
> Here, if you go to New Orleans, Lafayette, Baton Rouge or Shreveport there are A LOT of fit and attractive women. I go out to those places and enjoy the nightlife sometimes. But then I leave after a few hours of dancing because I don't drink:yawn2:
> 
> I guess I could try to meet girls in church. But it may be slightly odd to drive a few hours to big cities, showing up at random churches and looking for hot girls. Seriously, the biggest issue with that is gas money........


See...I am not the only on who's noticed. Lol The hottest are in shreveport by the way.


----------



## Deejo

Always an eye-opener for me when I go to Europe on business.

Most notable in the Netherlands and Sweden.


----------



## FalconKing

Deejo go to Asia man. It spoiled me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> Deejo go to Asia man. It spoiled me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


FC this almost seems.....for a lack of a better word fetishish. The Asian thing really gets old.


----------



## FalconKing

Well sorry I like skinny women. I live in a society where most people are obese and then I go somewhere where most people are not. I guess that makes me a pervert. HopelesslyJaded I think anything any man says gets old to you if deals with women.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> Well sorry I like skinny women. I live in a society where most people are obese and then I go somewhere where most people are not. I guess that makes me a pervert. HopelesslyJaded I think anything any man says gets old to you if deals with women.


Glad we cleared that up. You like skinny. Really not a surprise.
You better find one that is just naturally thin or you'll be like alot of these other men complaining about a 20lb weight gain.


----------



## FalconKing

All that's what I meant about the Asia thing. They are a little too skinny for some. I don't mind it. But i generally prefer a woman who is active. 20lbs depends on where it's gained!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> All that's what I meant about the Asia thing. They are a little too skinny for some. I don't mind it. But i generally prefer a woman who is active. 20lbs depends on where it's gained!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well thats genetic. Poor future ms falcon.


----------



## FalconKing

Yeah I know. Hoping my wife takes care of herself.......I'm so controlling and demanding.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thinkitthrough

If you check it out you will find that there are also genetic factors. It's not weight so much as ratio. Us guys are universally attracted to a bust, waist to hip ratio of 1 to .7 to 1. Marilyn Monroe had that ratio, so did Kate Moss so did a young Elizabeth Taylor. Women tend to prefer the inverted triangle shape in men. Beyond that its personal preference and parents. Funny how there are so many triggers in this.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

I think throwing Kate Moss in with MM and ET is giving her too much credit. Thats not a healthy image. Bag of bones.


----------



## that_girl

T and A! 

Skinny is not pretty. Look more like children than women.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> Yeah I know. Hoping my wife takes care of herself.......I'm so controlling and demanding.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And being skinny doesn't necessarily mean someone takes care of themselves. Plenty of skinny girls that can't keep up with me. 

I am betting alot of men could care less how well a woman "takes care of herself" as long as she maintains a certain weight. Funny how these men don't have big concerns about health until weight is involved. Being 20-30 pounds overweight doesn't always translate into unhealthy just as being normal weight according to a chart don't always mean healthy.


----------



## FalconKing

Well I'm not going to apologize for being attracted to slender women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thinkitthrough

Missed my point, its the ration not the body, each of those women had the same ratio despite their size. I'm not making a comment on whether or not they are a good image. Biology plays its role it what we find attractive, for women too. It doesn't really say anythng about us. Enjoy your slender women FalconKing. (cause its your thing)


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

What happens if there's a medical issue that prevents you from exercising normally? 

If your very thin to begin with and a major health issue arises, you may just as well gain weight.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FalconKing said:


> *Well sorry I like skinny women.* I live in a society where most people are obese and then I go somewhere where most people are not. I guess that makes me a pervert. HopelesslyJaded I think anything any man says gets old to you if deals with women.


Falcon,
You prefer skinny women?
Then you cannot live in the Caribbean!

Even the Asian women here seems to have
" genetically "adapted .
[ My wife is Indian ]
They are full figured and voluptious. Full of hips , bust and legs and butt. Kind of like Nikki Minaj.
She was born here and is a mixture of two races, Asian and African.
But most women here have her body type. And we don't consider it " fat " or unhealthy.

Maybe its the food?
I don't know.

But the first thing men who visit here for the first time notice is the difference in the women. women with really
" dangerous curves."

My preference has always been women with flesh in all the right places.
Maybe its Cultural?

However I think women are beautiful.

Here's a music [ Carnival ] vid Nikki Minaj shot down down here recently.
Check out the women in the vid.

Nicki Minaj - Pound The Alarm (Explicit) - YouTube

You think that's fat or sexy?


----------



## jaquen

FalconKing said:


> Well I'm not going to apologize for being attracted to slender women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't. I'm actually surprised that anybody stepped to you at all regarding YOUR personal preference. You never said that all women should be slender, or attacked ones who are not. You simply talked about loving slim women, and it seemed to strike a cord in a couple people.


----------



## FalconKing

Caribbean Man said:


> Falcon,
> You prefer skinny women?
> Then you cannot live in the Caribbean!
> 
> Even the Asian women here seems to have
> " genetically "adapted .
> [ My wife is Indian ]
> They are full figured and voluptious. Full of hips , bust and legs and butt. Kind of like Nikki Minaj.
> She was born here and is a mixture of two races, Asian and African.
> But most women here have her body type. And we don't consider it " fat " or unhealthy.
> 
> Maybe its the food?
> I don't know.
> 
> But the first thing men who visit here for the first time notice is the difference in the women. women with really
> " dangerous curves."
> 
> My preference has always been women with flesh in all the right places.
> Maybe its Cultural?
> 
> However I think women are beautiful.
> 
> Here's a music [ Carnival ] vid Nikki Minaj shot down down here recently.
> Check out the women in the vid.
> 
> Nicki Minaj - Pound The Alarm (Explicit) - YouTube
> 
> You think that's fat or sexy?


Hell yeah that's sexy!


----------



## FalconKing

jaquen said:


> Don't. I'm actually surprised that anybody stepped to you at all regarding YOUR personal preference. You never said that all women should be slender, or attacked ones who are not. You simply talked about loving slim women, and it seemed to strike a cord in a couple people.


It really surprises me here sometimes how if you say something about what you like in a someone, if a someone feels they don't fit that mold then they have to "correct" your thinking. I didn't attack anyone and I have the right to like what I like in a woman.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FalconKing said:


> Hell yeah that's sexy!


Well,
My advice to you is don't limit yourself to one body type. Women come in all types, sizes and shapes. 
Even Adele and Mariah Carey are sexy in my opinion.
Some may consider them as fat.

Pound The Alarm!


----------



## jaquen

Caribbean Man said:


> Well,
> My advice to you is don't limit yourself to one body type. Women come in all types, sizes and shapes.
> Even Adele and Mariah Carey is sexy in my opinion.
> Some may consider them as fat.
> 
> Pound The Alarm!


Adele is definitely overweight. I don't find her shapely overweight either.

Mariah Carey is smoking. But she fluctuates in size. Sometimes she is larger, but a lot of times she is in great shape, with a banging body.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> It really surprises me here sometimes how if you say something about what you like in a someone, if a someone feels they don't fit that mold then they have to "correct" your thinking. I didn't attack anyone and I have the right to like what I like in a woman.


You very mistaken if you think I think you liking skinny women is a personal attack because I am not. Now you making this comment does seem kind of snarky and can be taken as jab on the fact you know I am not defined as skinny. Kind of funny that you think that because I am not skinny that I am offended by your preference. 

What I am pointing out is the assumption that skinny equals healthy is a farce. And alot of these men hiding behind worrying about their wife or girlfriend's health as their main concern of their weight gain is BS! I am betting they didn't concern over their health when the outside was acceptable to them.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Caribbean Man said:


> Well,
> My advice to you is don't limit yourself to one body type. Women come in all types, sizes and shapes.
> Even Adele and Mariah Carey is sexy in my opinion.
> Some may consider them as fat.
> 
> Pound The Alarm!


Thank you! That made my day - I'm built like Adele/about her size and very healthy - healthier than a lot of 'skinny' people I know.

It has pros and cons. The best "pro" though is a little fat in the face softens the features making them prettier and plumping out creases. I look at LEAST 10 years younger than I am. A slim lady at my office is only a couple years older than I am but looks about 5-10 years older than she really is.


----------



## Lon

I have mostly stayed away from this thread but the one about men's height got me thinking about this one - I don't think there is a "double" standard, I think there are two different standards: one for women in general who seem to find men that have a physical presence attractive, and one for men in general who find women that put energy into their appearance attractive. Of course there is some crossover in the rules of attraction, but it has to do with how we each understand masculinity and femininity.

Few are attracted to an obese body, however the personality that leads to obesity is different in a man than in a woman, men are esteemed for going for what they want and being insatiable, women are esteemed for exercising self control and being caregivers. Atleast that is how I've come to see it.


----------



## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> You very mistaken if you think I think you liking skinny women is a personal attack because I am not. Now you making this comment does seem kind of snarky and can be taken as jab on the fact you know I am not defined as skinny. Kind of funny that you think that because I am not skinny that I am offended by your preference.
> 
> What I am pointing out is the assumption that skinny equals healthy is a farce. And alot of these men hiding behind worrying about their wife or girlfriend's health as their main concern of their weight gain is BS! I am betting they didn't concern over their health when the outside was acceptable to them.


Well there are two things you need you to realize:

1. If you feel offended by something somebody says then you maybe you have to realize that you also say things that are offensive. You told me the asian thing sounded like a fetish and it was getting old. Then you pointed that whomever I marry was in trouble. That wasn't snarky, that was downright disrespectful. You directed things at me personally when I didn't do as such to you. I only pointed out that on the average I like slender women and I liked that a lot of women in Asia were like that. When you say things you seem to not care how people take them but you seem to be quite sensitive about someone disrespecting you. Even to the point of them saying something about women in general, you chime in. 

2. On the average, between a fairly large woman and a fairly skinny one the skinny will probably be able more healthy. There are exceptions of course but there are exceptions to everything. I said I like slim women. I also like women with great legs. Also, maybe it is BS when a lot of men worry about their wife's health when they put weight on. But there is no nice way to tell a woman to lose weight because i'm losing an attraction towards you. Also, maybe the weight gain is unhealthy if it effects a woman's endurance and agility. So what? As long as people are insecure there will always be people trying to find nice ways to say things. It's how the world works.

I don't have to go into in great details about all the things that I find attractive in a woman. I like what I like and in 5 years if I like something else that is my right.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

I sincerely hope that when you find a woman whom you care about enough to marry that you take a step back and consider the posibility that no matter how active or slender/skinny/slim she is now there is a possibility that she will gain weight. And that possibility isn't slim/slender/skinny it's more likely than not. Whether it be 5lbs or 50. It's very likely possible. And this is even if you have made it abundantly clear how important it is to you she stay that way. We all make promises not knowing how hard it may be to keep. 

I just hope too much of your love and affection isn't going to be riding on how well she keeps her figure. So many factors come into play. (childbirth, age, wanting to cook for your man because you love him and want him happy, etc..) And yes as a woman it touches a nerve. 

I can't remember if you've been married before or what. But I think I am remembering you are single? Just coming from a wife of almost 11 years. It's one thing to be judged by men who are strangers it's all together another level of hurt when it's the one who said "for better or worse".


----------



## that_girl

Slender/slim/thin is way better than "skinny". When I think skinny, I think someone who is sick or ailing. Malnourished and deprived.

I prefer slender men who aren't too tall  I got one!  Thankfully, he prefers women with butts....I got that too :lol:


----------



## FalconKing

See to me that_girl it's all the same. I use all words interchangeably. If she is too skinny I say just that.


----------



## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I sincerely hope that when you find a woman whom you care about enough to marry that you take a step back and consider the posibility that no matter how active or slender/skinny/slim she is now there is a possibility that she will gain weight. And that possibility isn't slim/slender/skinny it's more likely than not. Whether it be 5lbs or 50. It's very likely possible. And this is even if you have made it abundantly clear how important it is to you she stay that way. We all make promises not knowing how hard it may be to keep.
> 
> I just hope too much of your love and affection isn't going to be riding on how well she keeps her figure. So many factors come into play. (childbirth, age, wanting to cook for your man because you love him and want him happy, etc..) And yes as a woman it touches a nerve.
> 
> I can't remember if you've been married before or what. But I think I am remembering you are single? Just coming from a wife of almost 11 years. It's one thing to be judged by men who are strangers it's all together another level of hurt when it's the one who said "for better or worse".



Aren't you always working your butt off in the gym? Why can't I have a wife that does the same? And I have seen your pictures. I think you are a very attractive woman and very beautiful. Just saying:yawn2: If my wife is into fitness and giving her all for her health I will respect the hell out of her, even if she does gain weight. I do not want a woman that let's herself go though. I want a wife that turns me on and want's to look good for herself. If I can be a positive husband, reliable, romantic and provides for his family then I EXPECT that from my wife. Please stop looking at the negatives so much. If think i'm inherently bad, I guess you have that right. But I think i'm the bomb:bringiton:


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

Yes I do work my butt off in the gym (bout 2 hours a day 5 days a week) but I am definitely not slim and don't think I ever will be unless I am absolutely miserable and don't ever relax and have some fun. Most people are surprised by my weight. I guess that's a good thing. I could look my weight. LOL

I have also been heavier (way heavier) than I am now. And I did get depressed looking in the mirror very often. But I can't imagine what it would have done to me to see that same disgust and disappointment from my husband. He did however fully support me every time talked of losing weight. It was always a "if you wanna do it do it" not a "damn! bout time" kind of reaction. LOL

When you say some of the things you do on here (and not just you) I can just picture a woman who is totally in love with you but miserable because she thinks your love hinges on the number on the scale or whether her butt and boobs stay as perky as the day you met.

Thank you for the compliments. That is nice of you.I will just second what CM about women and body types. You just might be surprised one day.


----------



## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Yes I do work my butt off in the gym (bout 2 hours a day 5 days a week) but I am definitely not slim and don't think I ever will be unless I am absolutely miserable and don't ever relax and have some fun. Most people are surprised by my weight. I guess that's a good thing. I could look my weight. LOL
> 
> *But you are athletic and active. If my wife could ravage me in the bedroom and move like the pink power ranger do you think I would care if she wasn't a size 1??*
> 
> I have also been heavier (way heavier) than I am now. And I did get depressed looking in the mirror very often. But I can't imagine what it would have done to me to see that same disgust and disappointment from my husband. He did however fully support me every time talked of losing weight. It was always a "if you wanna do it do it" not a "damn! bout time" kind of reaction. LOL
> 
> *I mentioned before. I was a fat kid. I started working out when my dad made a bet with me that I couldn't do 10 pushups. I couldn't. Now I can do about 500 to 600 a day(If i'm rrrreaallly bored...) So I know where i came from and I know it can be done. It would really bother me if a woman didn't have any personally goals physically. And another thing. If a woman is slender but doesn't workout or play sports/aerobics that turns me off too. Because I feel she may just be skinny because of her lifestyle and when life slows down she may have no interest in maintaining her figure. Or just being active.
> *
> 
> When you say some of the things you do on here (and not just you) I can just picture a woman who is totally in love with you but miserable because she thinks your love hinges on the number on the scale or whether her butt and boobs stay as perky as the day you met.
> 
> *Well it depends on tooooo many factors I find when you have that relationship dynamic. One of my good friends has always had women. He was an athlete and even did a little bodybuilding. He wife is beautiful. But he's not really affectionate, he's very selfish, unromantic, and puts her down a lot. He's always gotten women so he's never had to put in effort into. i know she loves him but it so frustrated with him. I think that happens a lot. Also there are women who really want to be submissive to their husband but the husband just abuses it and his demands of her become more and more unreasonable. I do see this though. It's sort of like a man always bending over backwards for his wife and she becomes more controlling and loses sexual interest in him. So many factors I think. Also, I hope my wife doesn't feel the need to maintain perfect breast. i'm not even a breast guy. And I like natural. I would rather a woman have to elephant trunks on her chest than get breast implants. Just not into it:nono:.
> *
> Thank you for the compliments. That is nice of you.I will just second what CM about women and body types. You just might be surprised one day.
> 
> *Well we all have certain things we look for, but certain things look attractive on certain people. Some women wear their weight, hairstyle, makeup, better than others. *


----------



## that_girl

I hate working out.


----------



## Thundarr

We could rephrase the question to be 
*"Re: Why does gainful employment only seem to be an issue if it's the man who doesn't work?"*

Most married women choose to work or not without marital consequence because their husbands would be fine either way. Most married men can let their appearance go some without marital consequence because their wives find them attractive based on other things like (being a good provider, etc) and would be fine either way.

If a woman has to work then often she resents her husband for not being a better provider. Men on the other hand don't expect their wives to provide but they do want to be proud of how their wife looks beside them. 

If the goal is to meet each others needs and "physical attractiveness" in a wife is a need for many men and a husband who "protects and provides" is a need for most women then we should try to meet those needs.

Two recipes for disaster
- Man making good money then after marriage he changes job and cannot provide as well.
- Women slim and attractive then after marriage she gains a bunch of weight.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Thundarr said:


> Two recipes for disaster
> - Man making good money then after marriage he changes job and cannot provide as well.
> - Women slim and attractive then after marriage she gains a bunch of weight.


:iagree:

I've actually seen this happen many times.


----------



## Lyris

Thundarr said:


> We could rephrase the question to be
> *"Re: Why does gainful employment only seem to be an issue if it's the man who doesn't work?"*
> 
> Most married women choose to work or not without marital consequence because their husbands would be fine either way. Most married men can let their appearance go some without marital consequence because their wives find them attractive based on other things like (being a good provider, etc) and would be fine either way.
> 
> If a woman has to work then often she resents her husband for not being a better provider. Men on the other hand don't expect their wives to provide but they do want to be proud of how their wife looks beside them.
> 
> If the goal is to meet each others needs and "physicYal attractiveness" in a wife is a need for many men and a husband who "protects and provides" is a need for most women then we should try to meet those needs.
> 
> Two recipes for disaster
> - Man making good money then after marriage he changes job and cannot provide as well.
> - Women slim and attractive then after marriage she gains a bunch of weight.


I just don't think this is true. I don't know any married women without young children who don't work. It's rare for people in my pretty wide circle to stay home full-time even for the pre-school years. Are there really that many women who continue staying at home after their childreN are at school?

Maybe change *most* to some women.

Anyway, I wouldnt be as attracted to my husband if he put on a lot of weight. I wouldn't leave him over it though. I know he wouldn't have married me if I were fat, and he wouldn't be as attracted to me if I gained a lot of weight, but I don't think he'd leave me over it either. Seems reasonable to me.


----------



## Thundarr

Lyris said:


> I just don't think this is true. I don't know any married women without young children who don't work. It's rare for people in my pretty wide circle to stay home full-time even for the pre-school years. Are there really that many women who continue staying at home after their childreN are at school?
> 
> Maybe change *most* to some women.


What I was saying is that many of these women choose to work knowing that their husbands do not expect them to. Very few men think their wives would be okay with them not working. 



Lyris said:


> Anyway, I wouldnt be as attracted to my husband if he put on a lot of weight. I wouldn't leave him over it though. I know he wouldn't have married me if I were fat, and he wouldn't be as attracted to me if I gained a lot of weight, but I don't think he'd leave me over it either. Seems reasonable to me.


I wouldn't leave my wife over it either but her physical appearance is likely more important to me and how I carry myself (confidence, etc) is more important to her. To some degree though all of these are important to both of us. 
Either way I think the real problem comes when we present ourselves as one thing and then change drastically after marriage. I'm not talking about getting a little heavier over the years. If someone gets in great shape to land a spouse and lets if all go after marriage then they're asking for trouble no matter the gender. This scenario just seems to happen more with women.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

that_girl said:


> I hate working out.


I get so bored with working out... Me & my husband did it for a time.....To me it is dreadful, I'd rather dig a ditch, go bike riding, take a walk , anything. 

I belong to this Mops group...just started, some new women......last week we did this little getting to know each other "Speed dating" type thing where we ask questions/ change seats every minute... 

One of the ladies there told the whole group about our little exchange a couple yrs ago playing this- never forgetting my response......

...Back then...her question to me was..."Do you exercise?"- or If I liked it or something.... I guess I made a sour face how I HATE exercising, but I sure LOVE sex, so it's all Sexercising for us. She told all these new women that, they were all









I have such a reputation there.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SimplyAmorous said:


> I get so bored with working out... Me & my husband did it for a time.....To me it is dreadful, I'd rather dig a ditch, go bike riding, take a walk , anything.


SA,
Both you and your husband seem to be blessed with good genes. 
You guys look the same way today as you did in your wedding photo.
You guys don't need a workout programme!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *Thundarr said:* Two recipes for disaster
> - Man making good money then after marriage he changes job and cannot provide as well.
> - Women slim and attractive then after marriage she gains a bunch of weight.


 $$ means less to me - over my husband's physical appearance. 

I'd rather live in a shack with a good looking slender man over being married to rich man with a pot belly - being able to shop till I drop -while lusting after the hot gardner.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Caribbean Man said:


> SA,
> Both you and your husband seem to be blessed with good genes.
> You guys look the same way today as you did in your wedding photo.
> You guys don't need a workout programme!


Thank you CB.. but you know what... we both have higher cholesterol (runs in both families it seems) -noone seems to get heart disease young & die though....thankfully. I have a Grandfather still living at age 95. Grandma just died in her 90's. 

I do worry about this a great deal though...was in a frenzy over it a few yrs ago....even with the working out, couldn't get his HDL higher .....and his TEST levels are on the lower side of normal to begin with....and guess what makes TEST.....freaking cholesterol [email protected]#$%^ Taking those darn statins do not help matters...it's like one drug corrects this but it screws with something else... then he'll need TEST therapy to correct that ! 

I was posting on Health forums about this worry before landing at TAM....some of the stuff I read scared the daylights out of me....he said they were making him feel "weaker"....so we said Fvk it. Not worth it. 

We are both getting a Physical in a month - I am dreading these Test results. I'm going to start worrying all over again...I know me. Not sure what to do about the statins. I am depending on family history here, taking a chance.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

I love working out! It's extremely addicting!

I really miss running 6 miles a day! I miss my super toned body while I was a runner. I miss racing in triathlons. Biking a few minutes a day with restrictions is not the same as running and it took a year to see starting of weight loss results. Running only takes a couple months before you see results of weight loss. I miss mowing the lawn by hand for 4 hours at a time, sweating profusely. I rarely eat anymore since I want to get back down to my running size or near it. I believe this is a good goal. I've always worked hard to stay thin. I better quit thinking of the past before I become depressed.

I don't really think I do this for my husband? Rather I do this for myself? Maybe I subconsciously try to look my best for my husband? I don't know. I've also always taken really good care of my hair. I buy nice hair products to keep it looking healthy. I have it professionally colored to cover the grey. I have not changed much other then my neck injury preventing me from doing the things I was most passionate about. I bought a brand new pair of running shoes the day before my injury. I never even had the chance to put a single mile on them.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

> *I'mInloveWithMyhubby said*: I love working out! It's extremely addicting!


I only WISH I felt this way.. I tried to find the most exciting things to work out too- like these sexy women in skimpy clothes so my husband would remain entertained, then I had some dancing with Billy Banks on ....somehow dance steps -for exercising holds my level of interest longer.....I stumbled over the steps mercilessly though.. 

I wonder if they have work outs to the beat of some good Rock music... now that I might get into. We even got this Romantic workout where couples were exercising - like his push ups over top of her, kinda "hands on" exercising, anything to keep our level of interest up...but we still grew bored. 

I recall you saying you used to run Marathons...







That would kill me, you'd find me laying on the road somewhere. 

2 of our sons run cross country (nice collection of metals) - our oldest's team was runner up to winning in the state championships about 6 yrs ago- their lead runner missed breaking the state Record by a half second, my son roomed with him before that race and afterwards ...boy was he ever upset!! 

Me.... I'd have trouble lasting one jog around the Track without my side killing me. Pathetic I know.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

I know this sounds contrite SA but you'll get a pass on the exercise and health thing by most men because you are blessed genetically and aren't overweight without the exercise regime.

Your very lucky.


----------



## Caribbean Man

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I know this sounds contrite SA but you'll get a pass on the exercise and health thing by most men because you are blessed genetically and aren't overweight without the exercise regime.
> 
> Your very lucky.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I know a few women like that.
Their metabolic rate is so fast that no matter what they eat , they never get excessively fat and they always have excess energy.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I know this sounds contrite SA but you'll get a pass on the exercise and health thing by most men because you are blessed genetically and aren't overweight without the exercise regime.
> 
> Your very lucky.


There was a little talk on here earlier that thin is not always healthier, this is very true !! We had a guy friend, very thin, ...died of Type 1 diabetes in his 20's....and another with type 1 die a year ago in his 40's. Life is just not fair for some. 

My reasons for wishing exercise was enjoyable has nothing to do with keeping thin, it has ALL to do with health. 

For instance, my husband only weighs 150 lbs... the man has high cholesterol, once his triglycerides were 400! ( I was feeding him too much pasta) :slap: got that lowered by watching his diet....at least something worked! 

But even though we exercised for 30 minutes a day for a few months.... this did NOT raise his HDL as they claim... very very discouraging to me. Nor did it do diddity squat to mine. He has a labor Job where he walks near 3 -4 miles a day sometimes- up & down the tracks, he keeps moving (the RR)... he is not sitting in an office. 

I fed him nuts, olive oil, had all these books on raising the HDL, for what... 2 points. He also has Type 2 on his dad's side (dad never got it - but he was the thinnest of the bunch)...I know if my husband starts getting a belly (that metabolic syndrome) -he is gonna have it -just like his uncles & Aunts got it. Enter Metformin .... guess what that does... lowers his TEST. He is already low, he gets any lower, then he needs Therapy. 

I was pricking his finger for awhile & getting myself all worked up. His last A1c was 5.8 - I think he gets the glucose test at 6.0. 

I don't know what the hell to feed the man.







Everything good for TEST is BAD for his cholesterol and if I feed him like a Diabetic , he will blow away in the damn wind. It's a real dilemma. I tried to feed him healthy & he kept complaining I was feeding him cardboard...and he sure wasn't gaining any weight. 

We should Exercise more, some cardio.... joining a gym just won't work for us, too far from home, too much Gas, too many kids in activities, not enough time. 

So for us... when you don't see the LAB results in the HDL & eating better ~ we just kinda gave up.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

That behaviour sounds just like someone wanting to lose weight SA. They try and try and the results don't come as fast as they would like so they quit. You just gotta keep looking till you find what works. My mom and my sister both have developed type 2 diabetes in the last couple years. Mom is 51 and sister is 28. I sure don't want it! If I lived next door to them I'd be drill sgt hopeless getting them to exercise!

Maybe cardio isn't what he needs since he seems to get that. He probably needs some weighted exercises. Not heavy. But building a little more muscle. The eating thing....unfortunately for me it means boring and simple 5 out of 7 days. Not exciting.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SimplyAmorous said:


> I don't know what the hell to feed the man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything good for TEST is BAD for his cholesterol and if I feed him like a Diabetic , he will blow away in the damn wind. It's a real dilemma. I tried to feed him healthy & he kept complaining I was feeding him cardboard...and he sure wasn't gaining any weight.
> 
> We should Exercise more, some cardio.... joining a gym just won't work for us, too far from home, too much Gas, too many kids in activities, not enough time.
> 
> So for us... when you don't see the LAB results in the HDL & eating better ~ we just kinda gave up.



SA,
Egg whites are very good at increasing test levels in men.
I use about half dozen / day. NB: That is my personal diet! I lift heavy weights in the gym, so your mileage may vary.

You might want to check these links;

Foods That Increase Low Testosterone Levels | LIVESTRONG.COM

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/BeefnEggs.aspx

http://johnalvino.com/the-natural-way-to-boost-testosterone-levels/

Hope they help!


----------



## FirstYearDown

My metabolism was very fast until I became ill and had to take medicine which caused weight gain and cravings.

Birth control has also wreaked havoc on my metabolism. 

I hate idiots who say that all overweight people are just lazy.

There are medical problems and medication which can be the real culprit. 

I wish I could just lose weight in my stomach and keep the large breasts and bottom.


----------



## FalconKing

Birth control wreaks havoc on a woman's weight(not all women). Something has got to be done about that.


----------



## I.T. Guy

To OP. Congrats on losing weight.
The answer to your question tho, is: "Men place a higher value on their mate being in shape then the woman does"
Fact of life.
Men get judged by other men on how their wife/S.O. looks.
Women get judged by other women on how well their husband/S.O. provides for the family.
There are a lot of other judgements too, but in a nutshell - thats the biggies, respectively.


----------



## FalconKing

Yeah but even if no other men were judging my wife I would still have my own standards. Likewise, if a woman's husband can't hold down a job that would in itself probably start to wear down her own attraction level towards him no matter what other women say.


----------



## I.T. Guy

I don't want a woman that works out to make me happy.

I want one that works out to make HERSELF happy. And believe me, I will support her.

And a gym is a luxury. It isn't a requirement, but it does make some things easier. It is also a place that when you are there, you feel more in the mindset. I've worked out at home, and you can do just about anything you need at the house with dumbells, a chair or two, a doorway hanger for pullups. Free weights are in general better then machines, anyway. Two dumbells each of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 should last beginners a while. Small to bigger bags of sand. A 5 gallon bucket filled to various levels of water (make sure you have a lid). 

But, I sure like the gym.


----------



## FalconKing

Yeah you are right. Sometimes I just go to the gym because I know at my home I will find something else to do. Also, I like to shoot ball sometimes to clear my head(even if I miss every shot).


----------



## FirstYearDown

FalconKing said:


> Yeah but even if no other men were judging my wife I would still have my own standards. Likewise, if a woman's husband can't hold down a job that would in itself probably start to wear down her own attraction level towards him no matter what other women say.


Not this woman.

My husband was unemployed for a year in 2008.

I still found him attractive. We made love even more often so that he knew that I loved him no matter how much money he had. 

Imagine proposing to a woman and then the company you work for shutting down! Terrible.

I think my husband spoils me because I was with him when life was hard, so he thinks I deserve it now.

Before I was married, I dated a few men who were well off but awful people. I grew up in an upper middle class home, but I often went to school with bruises from my mother.

Those experiences taught me that money does not equal happiness in life.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> Yeah but even if no other men were judging my wife I would still have my own standards. Likewise, if a woman's husband can't hold down a job that would in itself probably start to wear down her own attraction level towards him no matter what other women say.


I think a man's ability and willingness to work steadily speaks more about him than how much he makes at said job. I know there are plenty of gold diggers out there but I think the average woman likes this quality in a man.

For example: Say a man who was a welder who made $100K a year got laid off and after few weeks found there was nothing in his field available he goes and takes a job at Burger King because that's what's available at the moment and little money is better than no money. Rather than turn his nose up because it's beneath him. 

I don't think men are as able to get away with the "trophy wife" mentality as much anymore because most of the women are out there working 40+ hours a week outside the home like they are. They are losing their superiority ranking in the home and it's not necessarily bad.


----------



## FalconKing

Point taken. I have question though. If you are use to a certain income level and a standard of level, would it give you a sense of panic if that was taken away?


----------



## FirstYearDown

My husband and his family view me as a trophy wife, because I am "so young" compared to him. When he brought me to meet his family, most of them said "Where did you get such a pretty woman?" :rofl: I am average looking at best and we are less than ten years apart. 

I panicked when he lost his job because it was such a terrible time for that to happen, not just because of the income nosedive. Our wedding was sadly tiny because that is what we could afford and we didn't want to be engaged anymore.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> Point taken. I have question though. If you are use to a certain income level and a standard of level, would it give you a sense of panic if that was taken away?


I think anyone would have a "what are WE going to do" moment if there was a drastic change coming but sh!t happens. Who wouldn't? I think that is normal. But you sit down as a couple and figure out what needs to happen. Do you try and maintain or do you go ahead and play it safe by downsizing. I think a lot of the issues discussed on here fall under the "for better or worse" part of a marriage. (not including abuse and cheating) I think those things you have full right to give up, pack up and walk away.


----------



## frootloop

Caribbean Man said:


> Falcon,
> You prefer skinny women?
> Then you cannot live in the Caribbean!
> 
> ...
> 
> Here's a music [ Carnival ] vid Nikki Minaj shot down down here recently.
> Check out the women in the vid.
> 
> Nicki Minaj - Pound The Alarm (Explicit) - YouTube
> 
> You think that's fat or sexy?


I've just selected my next vacation destination.


----------



## Lon

frootloop said:


> I've just selected my next vacation destination.


I don't really get CM's statement that falconking can't live in the caribbean since he only likes skinny women, then puts up a link to Minaj's vidoe that is full of skinny women dancing in Carnival garb. (though I don't think of Minaj as skinny, nor attractive to me but I bet she is probably tiny in real life compared to those young girls she was strutting with they make her look chubby)


----------



## Runs like Dog

Because men are shallow and women are desperate.


----------



## FalconKing

Lon said:


> I don't really get CM's statement that falconking can't live in the caribbean since he only likes skinny women, then puts up a link to Minaj's vidoe that is full of skinny women dancing in Carnival garb. (though I don't think of Minaj as skinny, nor attractive to me but I bet she is probably tiny in real life compared to those young girls she was strutting with they make her look chubby)


I think people mistook my definition of skinny as anorexic. If you make a statement about what you like in a woman, If it can be taken positively or negatively more than likely it will be taken negatively.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Caribbean Man said:


> SA,
> Egg whites are very good at increasing test levels in men.
> I use about half dozen / day. NB: That is my personal diet! I lift heavy weights in the gym, so your mileage may vary.


 Well, we've been talking about getting chickens for ages... (we have a coyote problem right now though)..... That is ALOT of eggs for just HIM..... I guess he needs to built that Coop soon, then we can up the egg whites .... 



> Foods That Increase Low Testosterone Levels | LIVESTRONG.COM
> 
> Testosterone - Eggs and Beef
> 
> How To Increase Testosterone Naturally


That 2nd link you gave mentions *The Mediterranean Diet* near the end... I've known this for years...this is the way to go...the best diet on the planet. Cooking for a family as large as ours , trying to buy on sale to keep the cost down & making special provisions for him, it gets frustrating....I tend to do OK for awhile, then I get lax... I can get really caught up in Over worrying about health issues. Spent alot of time on health forums before I landed here, I don't want to go there again, it makes me worry - too much. 

You realize your 2nd link talks about NOT using the Egg yolks, the 3rd link says this ...


> 3) Low cholesterol- Adding a yolk (or two) to your egg white omelet does more that add a little flavor. Testosterone (like many other sex hormones) is made from a base of cholesterol. So in order to provide your body with all of the raw materials that it needs, you should ingest some cholesterol.


 See, I have been down this road so many times ...trying to build the TEST but not raise the cholesterol.. it's a balancing act that one will take a bigger hit. I just need to choose which I want that to be. 

I end up feeding him the darn eggs anyway... then all this stuff about buying organic..drinking Rice milk..... We simply can not afford a lifestyle like this.... not with a family the size of ours, separating his veggies from the kid's & all. And then it adds to not buy the meat in stores due to hormones feed to the cows... read this so many times too. 

It's not like we expect to live to be 100...Frankly we'd rather die of a heart attack before we need a Nursing home or go senile not knowing who the other is. If he makes it till mid 70's, I'll feel blessed, this is generally when his relatives keel over anyway.

I have to think Smaller steps or I get overwhelmed in this conflict on how to feed the man. I did look up the stuff you take -Animal Pak & save it ....like when he runs out of vitamins, might have to get those... but sounds as though even that should be discussed with a doctor. So many questions. 

Almost sounds this is meant for those who are doing intense work outs, body builders, power lifters....so I am confused there. Sounds alot more than just vitamins .


----------



## Lyris

SA, I don't know a lot about cholesterol levels, although my husband is like yours - super lean, with hereditary higher cholesterol- so I think I'll have to learn as we get older.

I do remember reading about a study that found that eggs don't raise cholesterol as long as they are not eaten with foods that raise the blood sugar abruptly. So, eating a couple of eggs on wholegrain/rye/spelt bread would be fine, as it is the blood sugar spike that makes your body absorb the cholesterol. I'm no expert, but it might be worth looking into. I think it was associated with the high/low glycemic index diets.

Also, you might find some good ideas from raw foodists. I'm not one myself, but I use some of the recipes, like green smoothies and chia seed puddings try www.therawtarian.com. They are delicious, satisfying and full of protein and good fats while being very low in cholesterol. 

Thinking about the income level thing, I have been with my husband for more than 20 years. We have been in all kinds of financial situations, from him not working-me working, him working part-time and studying-me working full-time, both of us working full-time, him working full-time-me not working and now, him working full-time and me working part-time. 

We have always pooled whatever money we had and shared. What he was doing work-wise has had no impact whatsoever on how attractive I found/find him. If he lost his job and we took a sudden drop in income, yes I'd panic, he would too, initially. But I wouldn't blame him, or leave him or stop wanting to have sex with him. I know how hard he works, I know what kind of person he is - ambitious, intelligent, hard-working and responsible. 

In that situation we would be a team working together to get our family back on track. I would willingly go back to working full-time, he would move heaven and earth to find a new job. The only thing that would worry me would be how he felt about himself, because he would feel he was letting us down.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FalconKing said:


> Birth control wreaks havoc on a woman's weight(not all women). Something has got to be done about that.


:iagree:

That's very true.
My wife chose not to use BC pills because of that.
It turned her sister who was a beauty queen into a severely overweight woman.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FalconKing said:


> I think people mistook my definition of skinny as anorexic. If you make a statement about what you like in a woman, If it can be taken positively or negatively more than likely it will be taken negatively.


Well you did mention Asian women, who are known to be very slim!
Some men tend to think that anything bigger than a 28" waist , and 35" hip is fat.


----------



## FirstYearDown

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> That's very true.
> My wife chose not to use BC pills because of that.
> It turned her sister who was a beauty queen into a severely overweight woman.


I have been on both the Pill and Depo Provera.

Both of them made me fat. 

As soon as I come off the hormones, the weight falls off like magic. I don't even change my diet or exercise.


----------



## Starstarfish

I can second that - I went off the pill for blood tests for a period of time. I lost 20 pounds in three months. It was magic. I was not exercising more, and I was recently out of college, so was still pretty used to eating crap (AKA Taco Bell three times a week.)

However, at the end of that third month I was pregnant. 

So - I recognize that yes, I am likely heavier than I could be, because I know going off BC would make me lose a lot of weight. However, knowing how easy it was for me to get pregnant the first time (yes, we were using other precautions), I'm paranoid about it. 

So - yes, I'm one of those people who finds the threads directed towards "fat wives" about "not being lazy" and "stop eating all the time" kind of offensive for that reason. Women are affected by BC differently. Like FYD, I unfortunately, am one of the ones who gains a lot of weight. I truly wish that wasn't true. However, this is the trade off at the moment, as we are not quite ready to to take a permanent BC solution. 

So, given the number of threads from husbands about how they don't believe in condoms if you are married (as it "ruins it"), I am curious, about cross-referencing that to posts about "fat wives." And - yes, the recognition that hormonal issues, including those caused by the use of birth control, could be a big cause of weight gain. People can poo-poo that all they want, but - if they've never seen and lived the results, then, they can't really understand that it is real and not a lame excuse.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Lon said:


> I don't really get CM's statement that falconking can't live in the caribbean since he only likes skinny women, then puts up a link to Minaj's vidoe that is full of skinny women dancing in Carnival garb. (though I don't think of Minaj as skinny, nor attractive to me but I bet she is probably tiny in real life compared to those young girls she was strutting with they make her look chubby)


Ok Lon,
I'm sending some more here for you.
All shapes , sizes,slim, fat, mediun,but,
ALL BEAUTIFUL women.
Enjoy

1 Million Trini Girls... (Women of Trinidad & Tobago Descent) HD - YouTube

Saw any there that you liked?


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

What has this turned into? LOL There are beautiful women in every country. We could all find a video like that. I am curious CM did you already have that video in your favorites or did you just do a search for something like that? I am sure I would be quite plain anywhere but the states. Nothing exotic about me. I couldn't go anywhere without "tourist" all but written on my forehead.


----------



## Rags

Upfront statement: I like women with curves. Not fat, necessarily, but at least that you couldn't mistake for a boy.

Another caveat: Generalisation warning. There are exceptions to most human things, and what is found attractive covers a broad spectrum.

A woman's attractiveness (in a physical sense) tends to be related to the visible cues about her likely health and fertility. Hence young, symetrical features, red lips, heathly skin tone (even if managed with make-up - men's triggers don't care), etc. Anything that indicates problems (or hides positives) can reduce that attractiveness.
The obsession with skinny is a recent thing (check out the attractive women paintings and sculptures from classical, pre-classical, renaisance, many eastern cultures - scarecely a waif among them) - and, I think in many cases it's driven by media/fashion instustries looking for extremes.

The difference for men falls into two categories, I think - firstly, the fertility isn't massively affected by body weight - and secondly having extra weight can indicate spare food availablity (i.e. wealth, which bodes well for feeding children ...)

Women's attractiveness tends to relate to how healthy their offspring might be. Men's attractivess has this, and also how likely those offspring will be looiked after.

Horribly biological, in that it ties to species propagation, but these traits survive and are desirable for a reason. They work.

Of course, in a modern society, these things are hardly relevant - but the triggers are still there.

You are, of course, entire free to disagree 

Rags


----------



## Lon

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok Lon,
> I'm sending some more here for you.
> All shapes , sizes,slim, fat, mediun,but,
> ALL BEAUTIFUL women.
> Enjoy
> 
> 1 Million Trini Girls... (Women of Trinidad & Tobago Descent) HD - YouTube
> 
> Saw any there that you liked?


I got about 49 seconds in and realized I just am not interested in looking at a series of of stillshots of random attractive women. I could see where it was going and for that first 49 seconds it was all thin women - yes some thin women that were curvy and some that were straighter but all thin - yes these were all "normal" women but only a partial subset of all "normal" women, the ones on the thinner and more physically attractive type - that video missed out on all the REAL medium and fat ones, so please don't profess that those are all the shapes. Or if you still want to disprove me, then tell me what time frame in that video has one that is your idea of medium or your idea of fat. But I think your standards of what "all shapes" means has pre-filtered out around half the female population. And don't think I am judging beauty purely on weight or size, though I go googoo for the petite ones I notice many actual plus sized women that physically do it for me.

ps. ok after I wrote most of this I watched another minute or so and saw two plump ones that I didn't find particularly attractive but probably because they were not the most flattering photos, a better shot would have done them justice.


----------



## FalconKing

Caribbean Man said:


> Well you did mention Asian women, who are known to be very slim!
> Some men tend to think that anything bigger than a 28" waist , and 35" hip is fat.


It has more to do with the fact there are less overweight people. I like American girls. But we do have an issue with weight here. So naturally if I go somewhere where there on the average less overweight people it would be more what I like. Some of it is genetic but a lot of it is how and what they eat. But I do find many things about Asian culture quite intriguing. It makes me upset though when I here people saying foreign men like Asian women because they are more submissive. Haha that is absolutely not true. Maybe those men think the women will be that way and often they are surprised. Food for thought: A lot of cultures do not practice birth control. So they may not have the body issues to deal with on the average of the ones practicing it. Something to think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

FalconKing said:


> It has more to do with the fact there are less overweight people. I like American girls. But we do have an issue with weight here. So naturally if I go somewhere where there on the average less overweight people it would be more what I like. Some of it is genetic but a lot of it is how and what they eat. But I do find many things about Asian culture quite intriguing. It makes me upset though when I here people saying foreign men like Asian women because they are more submissive. Haha that is absolutely not true. Maybe those men think the women will be that way and often they are surprised. Food for thought: A lot of cultures do not practice birth control. So they may not have the body issues to deal with on the average of the ones practicing it. Something to think about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well I guess nothing's wrong with a man having his preferences!
My preference has always been beautiful women.
No matter what type, just as long as they are beautiful!


----------



## Lon

FalconKing said:


> It has more to do with the fact there are less overweight people. I like American girls. But we do have an issue with weight here. So naturally if I go somewhere where there on the average less overweight people it would be more what I like. Some of it is genetic but a lot of it is how and what they eat. But I do find many things about Asian culture quite intriguing. It makes me upset though when I here people saying foreign men like Asian women because they are more submissive. Haha that is absolutely not true. Maybe those men think the women will be that way and often they are surprised. Food for thought: A lot of cultures do not practice birth control. So they may not have the body issues to deal with on the average of the ones practicing it. Something to think about.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know about "asian" women being more submissive, however I was with a Persian lady, and the cultural differences carry over into sexuality without question - she was definitely submissive compared to Western women, however it was not in a weak or demeaning way, she actually had all the power and she knew it, yet would just submitted control of herself to me in a way that felt very empowering to me and very masculinizing - and she loved invoking that response from me, seeing me take charge. As kind of a submissive guy I didn't really know what to do at first, but she was patient and it just sort of came naturally to me for the first time in my life.

I'm sure a lot of it was just her own personality but I think it is a skill that can only be honed to that level in cultures that do segregate the sexes to a certain degree.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

Caribbean Man said:


> well I guess nothing's wrong with a man having his preferences!
> _My *preference* has always been beautiful women._
> No matter what type, just as long as they are beautiful!


You and every red blooded male on the planet. Doesn't mean they can attract them.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Lon said:


> I don't know about "asian" women being more submissive, however I was with a Persian lady, and the cultural differences carry over into sexuality without question - she was definitely submissive compared to Western women, however it was not in a weak or demeaning way, she actually had all the power and she knew it, yet would just submitted control of herself to me in a way that felt very empowering to me and very masculinizing - and she loved invoking that response from me, seeing me take charge. As kind of a submissive guy I didn't really know what to do at first, but she was patient and it just sort of came naturally to me for the first time in my life.
> 
> I'm sure a lot of it was just her own personality but I think it is a skill that can only be honed to that level in cultures that do segregate the sexes to a certain degree.


Lon,
You actually had a Persian kitty?
Lucky feller,
Some of the most beautiful women in the world!


----------



## Caribbean Man

HopelesslyJaded said:


> You and every red blooded male on the planet. Doesn't mean they can attract them.


Well I can only speak from myself.
My wife IS beautiful.
And she was attracted to me.

Before her I never had a problem. In fact the easiest women to attract [ for me ] were beautiful women.


----------



## Lon

Caribbean Man said:


> Lon,
> You actually had a Persian kitty?
> Lucky feller,
> Some of the most beautiful women in the world!


Yeah, it was a little awkward because her looks varied from beautiful to not very at all depending on so many things - she was sort of pretty at first, then I thought she looked like an old lady, sometimes she would smile in a way that reminded me of a youthful lady - very confusing. But when I was around her she just had a power over me, like she had pheromones or something. And sex with her was unbelievable, but it could have been because I was so deprived - now talk about a woman with curves! And she was thin, she was down on her luck and had a wedding to translate for and wanted a dress, so I took her shopping and I was amazed to find she was a size zero? It doesn't really make sense to me because she certainly didn't appear much smaller than average, however I have never felt so manly as when she was wrapped around me.

Tragically, she had a really tough life and a lot of it was just from horrible choices - like when I told her my ex W owned a spa then she went there as a customer and became my ex's employee after I told her how disappointed I was at that which spelled the end of our relationship. And like her choice to always refuse to wear her seatbelt even on the highway, resulting in me attending her funeral this past week.


----------



## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> You and every red blooded male on the planet. Doesn't mean they can attract them.


HJ if a woman said the same thing about attractive men and I responded like that how do you think I would look?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> HJ if a woman said the same thing about attractive men and I responded like that how do you think I would look?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well we do keep seeing this "my wife is too fat" threads. Way more than "my husband". Men seem a little more hung up on this and the status of what a beautiful woman on his arm brings him. Or cool points or whatever.

But I guess I could have said beauty is subjective, eh? 

Hey I fall in that category. I have always been more attracted to guys "above me" in the looks dept. I had to accept I was just your average white girl with nothing special in the looks dept. and those guys weren't interested. So hey.....


----------



## Caribbean Man

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Well we do keep seeing this "my wife is too fat" threads. Way more than "my husband". Men seem a little more hung up on this and the status of what a beautiful woman on his arm brings him. Or cool points or whatever.
> 
> But I guess I could have said beauty is subjective, eh?
> 
> *Hey I fall in that category. I have always been more attracted to guys "above me" in the looks dept. I had to accept I was just your average white girl with nothing special in the looks dept. and those guys weren't interested. So hey.....*


Hope,
I really don't understand why you keep saying these things about yourself.
I have seen the pics you have posted , that one in your avitar, and all of them look beautiful to me.
I've seen how you articulate yourself,and you hold very strong views. Another positive.
Added to that , you actually take the time to go to the gym religiously to take care of your body.
No need for you to compare your self with " them and those."
You are an attractive woman.
Period.

BTW, What's the cost of that smile you're wearing in your avatar?


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

Caribbean Man said:


> BTW, What's the cost of that smile you're wearing in your avatar?


The huge Margarita that was on the table in front of me. 

Add: I speak from experience. I have seen you all say more than once you attract your own "level" and apparently I am not up to par with the beautiful people. None of the beautiful men were ever into me.


----------



## FalconKing

What makes a man beautiful to you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> What makes a man beautiful to you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't have a particular look that gets me. I know it when I see it.


----------



## FalconKing

You have never had a man you thought was good looking approach you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

Average yes. One that I would define as hot or beautiful no.


----------



## Ikaika

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Add: I speak from experience. I have seen you all say more than once you attract your own "level" and apparently I am not up to par with the beautiful people. None of the beautiful men were ever into me.


Do you really want a "beautiful" man looking into a mirror at himself more often than he looks at you? 

Don't sell yourself short


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

drerio said:


> Do you really want a "beautiful" man looking into a mirror at himself more often than he looks at you?
> 
> Don't sell yourself short


Like I said...no risk. Lol I just don't have IT. I am very invisible. I have experienced it enough to know. 

I swear it's like any woman who hangs with me becomes twice as attractive. I am always standing there when my friends get hit on.


----------



## Ikaika

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Like I said...no risk. Lol I just don't have IT. I am very invisible. I have experienced it enough to know.
> 
> I swear it's like any woman who hangs with me becomes twice as attractive. I am always standing there when my friends get hit on.


If your avatar is s representative of you, I have a hard time believing this.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

It's true.


----------



## Ikaika

HopelesslyJaded said:


> It's true.


My wife says she feels like a wallflower but I beg to differ. I like to think I am a pretty good judge... Not trying to make you feel uncomfortable, but you too are not a wallflower. I'm sure your H feels the same.


----------



## Lon

Hopelessly Jaded, I am like you, my jaded personality shines through and the opposite sex seems to pick up on it like a poopy diaper or something. Granted I don't "approach" women, but you'd think I'd get the occasional glance my way (nope).

If you look anything like your avatar I would definitely give you a double take, and if you were able to return my glance quickly enough with a pleasant smile I'd be giving you one back, and probably trying to find a way to increase the odds of bumping into you to say hello.

Maybe you just need to flirt more (ie smile at the good looking guys more). Just as I need to be less passive when I approach. Old habits die hard though.


----------



## Goldmember357

it seems to be an issue its odd that overweight men will demand a thin woman. I am like really? if you are not in shape or thin yourself how can you demand that in another especially your spouse?

my wife actually wants me to gain weight so i do not think a weight gain would bother her. I have thin legs especially my calves, sadly only my arms seem to get big. Ha


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## HopelesslyJaded

Lon said:


> Hopelessly Jaded, I am like you, my jaded personality shines through and the opposite sex seems to pick up on it like a poopy diaper or something. Granted I don't "approach" women, but you'd think I'd get the occasional glance my way (nope).
> 
> If you look anything like your avatar I would definitely give you a double take, and if you were able to return my glance quickly enough with a pleasant smile I'd be giving you one back, and probably trying to find a way to increase the odds of bumping into you to say hello.
> 
> Maybe you just need to flirt more (ie smile at the good looking guys more). Just as I need to be less passive when I approach. Old habits die hard though.


Well Lon I am sure flirting more would be wrong since I am married. Lol 
I am just saying I have ben exposed enough before marriage and during marriage out with the girls, etc. heck even at the gym. Or even by myself. I cannot count how many times I have been standing there while the girl next to me got asked out or hit on.

Whole other topic but I think this is why I still feel hurt. The feeling that even my husband picked someone else over me once.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

Goldmember357 said:


> it seems to be an issue its odd that overweight men will demand a thin woman. I am like really? if you are not in shape or thin yourself how can you demand that in another especially your spouse?


This is what I mean. I hear this from men so much. Men in general, not just fit men. They feel this is what they deserve, like it's all that matters in a woman. Something to show off. It's a who's woman is the hottest contest and then wonder why we as women act so competitive with other women and feel threatened.


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## Torrivien

I've never was repulsed by overweight unless it's morbid obesity. But if it's an additional couple of pounds, I might actually like that.
There's something feminine, I can't really explain it, in a curvy woman. My ex wasn't thin, and it actually turned me on.

Hope, no way you're not attractive. I think that you actually would impress men too much for them to risk and come talk to you. And believe me, the more attractive the woman is, the more crushing her rejection will be.
In the gym, I remember you working your ass off too hard and even beat men in weight lifting. We may seem noisy and macho, but men are extremely insecure when it comes to asking a girl out. So believe me, if humanity were into two teams. You'll be playing for the good looking one.
It's not that it matters, since you're married. So you really found the one who should be seducing you.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

FalconKing said:


> What makes a man beautiful to you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Someone who is genuine on the inside. Someone who treats me with the upmost respect. Someone who is not constantly gawking at other women or their parts. Someone who is a true family man and loves to spend time with his wife and children. It's not about looks, it's about how they treat others and how honorable they are. 

I'm very lucky to have been set up with a man that has high values in life. Me as the wife being one of those high values.


----------



## Lon

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Well Lon I am sure flirting more would be wrong since I am married. Lol


yeah maybe don't flirt too much, lol - but take on the same attitude, because what is attractive to other men is always in part what is attractive to your H. So flirt with your H every chance you have.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Lyris said:


> SA, I don't know a lot about cholesterol levels, although my husband is like yours - super lean, with hereditary higher cholesterol- so I think I'll have to learn as we get older.
> 
> I do remember reading about a study that found that eggs don't raise cholesterol as long as they are not eaten with foods that raise the blood sugar abruptly. So, eating a couple of eggs on wholegrain/rye/spelt bread would be fine, as it is the blood sugar spike that makes your body absorb the cholesterol. I'm no expert, but it might be worth looking into. I think it was associated with the high/low glycemic index diets.
> 
> Also, you might find some good ideas from raw foodists. I'm not one myself, but I use some of the recipes, like green smoothies and chia seed puddings try Simple, Satisfying Raw Food Recipes | The Rawtarian. They are delicious, satisfying and full of protein and good fats while being very low in cholesterol.


Thank you Lyris for your thoughts here. Do you know it sounds like I NEED to go to SCHOOL to understand all of this, I bought the books on the Glycemic index too, sitting on my shelf in my bedroom. Yep...your husband sounds like mine !! I spent a good amount of time trying to find a book catered to those who couldn't stand to loose weight -for how they need to eat...to avoid diabetes & cholesterol issues -but not take a hit on their muscluar health. Not an easy find at all. 

I know you are right.... certain foods *are* better absorbed and all of this - when eaten together. I started out with the intentions of understanding this -to eat like a diabetic and got so confused, the learning curve seemed too great -since he doesn't have it yet....so I took a pause on it all.

He mentioned cooking him 2 eggs this morning, I said..."Oh I think we'll do oatmeal", he goes on about me feeding him like a Rat now and told me that is how they kill rats, it bloats their stomach & they go for water. He is just kidding - but still. Me getting on these health kicks, not something he invites with a . (not that I really care, his health is too important)

I mentioned your green smoothie chia seed drink there, he can't imagine that tastes good either. I guess our tastes buds can get used to anything if we keep at it though. At least a smoothie can be drank fast ~~~ that's a plus!!

Thank you for this link, need to check further into this. 




> We have always pooled whatever money we had and shared. What he was doing work-wise has had no impact whatsoever on how attractive I found/find him. If he lost his job and we took a sudden drop in income, yes I'd panic, he would too, initially. But I wouldn't blame him, or leave him or stop wanting to have sex with him. I know how hard he works, I know what kind of person he is - ambitious, intelligent, hard-working and responsible.
> 
> In that situation we would be a team working together to get our family back on track. I would willingly go back to working full-time, he would move heaven and earth to find a new job. The only thing that would worry me would be how he felt about himself, because he would feel he was letting us down.


I feel the same as you & my Husband would feel the same as your last sentence here...he would do anything to put food on the table to provide for his family.... 

I married him when he worked in a Grocery store. His work ethic was superb -he just didn't have the breaks yet in life... I knew we'd struggle together, and make it work...we had hope in our dreams...... We saved, we skimped and still had fun doing it -enjoying the little things in life...we pretty much did all our own projects for many of those years.... He's never been layed off ...we've been lucky there. 

Just now as we are getting older are we relaxing a bit in this area ~ accually hiring other people to do things we would have done when we were younger. Nice to kick back a little and just enjoy.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Torrivien said:


> *I've never was repulsed by overweight unless it's morbid obesity. But if it's an additional couple of pounds, I might actually like that.
> There's something feminine, I can't really explain it, in a curvy woman. *My ex wasn't thin, and it actually turned me on.
> .


:iagree:
There is a time in the month when my wife looks like she's
" blossoming."
I think its around that ovulation period?
But she more sexy,
More " full " and a little more curves etc.
I go crazy for that " look."
That's the time when we have the most sex.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

SimplyAmorous said:


> I mentioned your green smoothie chia seed drink there, he can't imagine that tastes good either. I guess our tastes buds can get used to anything if we keep at it though. At least a smoothie can be drank fast ~~~ that's a plus!!
> 
> Thank you for this link, need to check further into this.


Chia seeds are great! Unfortunately they have more then DOUBLED in price in the last 6 months. I was buying 6lbs for 27.00 and now they are about 67.00 on Amazon. How frustrating. I cringed at the last purchase. I've tried cutting them out of my diet, but I can't. I feel so much better when I eat them on a daily basis. I have cut back from 2 tbsp to 1 tbsp per day. I eat chia seeds in my cereal. A true super food packed with omega's. 

Chia seeds are so much better then flax and fish oil supplements.


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## Starstarfish

Just as a thought, Trader Joes has bags of chia seeds for like $5.


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## Ikaika

HopelesslyJaded said:


> This is what I mean. I hear this from men so much. Men in general, not just fit men. They feel this is what they deserve, like it's all that matters in a woman. Something to show off. It's a who's woman is the hottest contest and then wonder why we as women act so competitive with other women and feel threatened.


It is true... We men will often parade our women around; trophies we won... HJ you saw the pic of my wife when she was around 28. Well, she just made 50, I will be 52 soon... I still love her so... I will admit I was attracted to her looks, but I continue to love her for who she is... The parade may be over, but our personal celebration continues. 

We both stay fit, but for personal and selfless reasons... Do I enjoy having a fit 50 year old wife? You bet. For one her sex drive has gone up, oh yes. Same for me. Also seen enough couples where one does not take care of themselves then has a major medical issue and the other spouse is saddle with home care duties. So any fit woman who saddles themselves with a man not willing to look after his own health, beware of my last point. 

We men do eventually grow up... So don't remain jaded forever.


----------



## FalconKing

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> Someone who is genuine on the inside. Someone who treats me with the upmost respect. Someone who is not constantly gawking at other women or their parts. Someone who is a true family man and loves to spend time with his wife and children. *It's not about looks, it's about how they treat others and how honorable they are. *
> 
> I'm very lucky to have been set up with a man that has high values in life. Me as the wife being one of those high values.


What if a man was all these things and was 400lbs and had only one eye? Does it make you heart flutter imagining how passionate and intimate your sex life will be? 

Women are frustrated with how much men harp on looks. But I think men are equally frustrated when women talk about how a man looks don't matter at all. I think in the beginning some women talk about how a man makes them feel and how wonderful he is. Then later on in the relationship they complain about the sex life because they are physically not attracted to their husbands. They didn't want to admit it was a factor in the beginning because they thought they were "better" than that and he was such a nice guy. Not all women do this. But it's like some women can't admit they want a man that makes them feel good AND look good. It's ok ladies.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

FalconKing said:


> What if a man was all these things and was 400lbs and had only one eye? Does it make you heart flutter imagining how passionate and intimate your sex life will be?
> 
> Women are frustrated with how much men harp on looks. But I think men are equally frustrated when women talk about how a man looks don't matter at all. I think in the beginning some women talk about how a man makes them feel and how wonderful he is. Then later on in the relationship they complain about the sex life because they are physically not attracted to their husbands. They didn't want to admit it was a factor in the beginning because they thought they were "better" than that and he was such a nice guy. Not all women do this. But it's like some women can't admit they want a man that makes them feel good AND look good. It's ok ladies.


I broke my neck and became disabled over 4 years ago. I use to run 6 miles a day and race in triathlons. Now I barley can walk. I thank God I can still use my legs. I rest most of the day. The pain is unbearable a lot of the time.

My husband did not sign up for a disabled wife, but he supports me like no other. He is always by my side. He is one honorable man. My looks have changed. No matter how healthy I eat, I will never have that runners body again.


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## FalconKing

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> I broke my neck and became disabled over 4 years ago. I use to run 6 miles a day and race in triathlons. Now I barley can walk. I thank God I can still use my legs. I rest most of the day. The pain is unbearable a lot of the time.
> 
> My husband did not sign up for a disabled wife, but he supports me like no other. He is always by my side. He is one honorable man. My looks have changed. No matter how healthy I eat, I will never have that runners body again.


That is out of your control and not the point I was making. Obviously you and your husband's relationship is unique to your situation.


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## bonita83

wow--I agree with the title and I am not sure why it is this way


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## Starstarfish

I'm sure a Sumo wrestler with all of the prestige, honor, and money could do quite well for himself, even at 400 lbs with one eye.  (The average sumo wrestler is like 412 lbs, for point of reference.)


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## FalconKing

I'm not a statistician but I'm betting most severely over weight guys are not prestigious sumo wrestlers. What if he looked like the hunchback of notre dame??? Imagine that with you at night grunting and sweating..... You'll make love to that if he's really sweet and pays the bills on time?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HopelesslyJaded

You are using extremes like quasimodo. I am betting the majority of these women that are being complained about aren't quasimodos.
They just can't keep up with the music video vixens, playboy spreads, strip club dancers or random friend Joe's arm candy of the week.


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## Lyris

I wouldn't be attracted to my husband if he weighed 400 pounds and only had one eye. I wouldn't have married him. 

I will say one thing though, there seems to be more of a 'showing off' vibe when I hear some men talk about women's attractiveness levels. It seems to be important that their friends think their wife/gf is hot. and I also think it is more likely that an ugly man who has mitigating characteristics, such as intelligence or charm, will be with a pretty woman, than a handsome man with an ugly woman. I can think of two couples that I know personally where this is definitely the case. 

SA, I have PMd you, as I think the chia/green smoothie stuff was getting a bit off topic!


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## HopelesslyJaded

Lyris said:


> I wouldn't be attracted to my husband if he weighed 400 pounds and only had one eye. I wouldn't have married him.
> 
> I will say one thing though, there seems to be more of a 'showing off' vibe when I hear some men talk about women's attractiveness levels. It seems to be important that their friends think their wife/gf is hot. * and I also think it is more likely that an ugly man who has mitigating characteristics, such as intelligence or charm, will be with a pretty woman, than a handsome man with an ugly woman.* I can think of two couples that I know personally where this is definitely the case.
> 
> SA, I have PMd you, as I think the chia/green smoothie stuff was getting a bit off topic!


I have pretty much said this before too. So agreed.


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## joe kidd

I know I'm late to the party. If I expect her to stay "attractive" then shouldn't I be expected to put in the same effort?


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## Ikaika

Lyris said:


> I wouldn't be attracted to my husband if he weighed 400 pounds and only had one eye. I wouldn't have married him.
> 
> I will say one thing though, there seems to be more of a 'showing off' vibe when I hear some men talk about women's attractiveness levels. It seems to be important that their friends think their wife/gf is hot. and I also think it is more likely that an ugly man who has mitigating characteristics, such as intelligence or charm, will be with a pretty woman, than a handsome man with an ugly woman. I can think of two couples that I know personally where this is definitely the case.
> 
> SA, I have PMd you, as I think the chia/green smoothie stuff was getting a bit off topic!


I would say - you make some good points, but it over generalizes all men. I parade my wife around for different reason. She can kick a$$ when it comes to scrabble. She is so damn good she beat my SIL's mother who is an award winning author from Canada. So yea, she hot, I find intelligence sexy. Not interested in some ditzy hooters girl... Yawn.


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## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> You are using extremes like quasimodo. I am betting the majority of these women that are being complained about aren't quasimodos.
> They just can't keep up with the music video vixens, playboy spreads, strip club dancers or random friend Joe's arm candy of the week.


Why do you have all the understanding for women and none for men? We men are all not evil beings. You even said yourself that you some guys have a look you like. My example was extreme but the point I was making was that even if looks are not number 1 on some people's list they still may matter. And if you think men want women to look like those things then maybe you need to change the quality of men you associate with. Sometimes men are very selfish but sometimes WOMEN ARE TOO. Everything negative women do in relationships are not reactions to things done to them by men. There are indeed some men just want their wives to look like strippers. I think most examples you have seen have not been that extreme. But maybe you harp on these more to feed your bitterness towards men. Some men just want their wives to make an effort in their appearance. Some women do get married and reserve themselves to sweats, no make up and just watching t.v. all day. Women are not always perfect in relationships. I should be able point things that are unfair that some women do without having to defend it. Not everything you say about men is nice. Actually most of it is anything but. I do understand that some men have done things that hurt you so I am accepting a lot times of your perspectives. But some men have legitimate complaints. Also if women are saying looks do not matter but your husband is saying he wants to find you physically attractive how is that a double standard? If a woman is telling me she wants me to romance her and make her feel special I won't throw it her face how she never buys me flowers. We all know men and women want and value different things in a relationship. We only bring up double standards when it's something we don't feel like doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl

I totally parade my husband around. Eff yea. He's hot.


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## HopelesslyJaded

I guess we can go round and round on this subject. It seems though that every time I thought I might actually see a man prove me wrong, AAAACCCKKK WRONG!

Just a few snippets that I am sure haven't helped.

Losing my virginity to a guy I was totally head over heals for just for him to break up with me a week later. Basically I guess he figured out I was an easy target.

Being called Ms. Piggy by my date to homecoming (I was a size 10 then so I guess according to high school standards I was a fat cow) when up until that point I was actually thinking I looked alright and thought I would have a fun evening.

Wasn't careful, got pregnant at 19. Guess what, got the whole "how do I know it's mine" routine. I made sure he got his scientific proof. I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt with this one considering the horror stories of guys getting stuck with kids that aren't theirs. Well he got his 99.98% proof and he basically tells me to go find my son a father because it wasn't going to be him.

Then I get married. My dream man. The man that may finally prove me wrong. Honesty is good in a relationship right? He finds out I was little wild in my single days, thinks he missed out on something and mopes about it for almost a year till i give in and have a 3some so that he can "join the club" i guess because he felt like everyone else had done it but him apparently.

So then trying to be the exciting wife we go the exhibition route because I told him that sharing him would hurt my feelings. Well one night I guess curiosity gets the best of him and he literally gets up off of me during one of these sessions and takes up with the other woman in the room. And I end up watching my husband **** someone else. There's an image I can't wash from my mind no matter what.

That's just a few of the highlights of the times that directly affected me. We are not counting what I've observed. So yeah. I feel I've earned my title.


----------



## Lon

HJ, I don't think you are hopelessly jaded, I think you are hopelessly romantic.

So what you lost your V to a jerk, many of us have. You had a little (and I really mean a little) extra padding in high school, so what it's just how are bodies are (kids are just cruel when they find something they can hurt you with, I know I was an easy target of bullies when I was a kid). You obviously were sexually attractive enough to atleast have some promiscuouity - for me I would have loved to have opportunities like that but I never did get good at finding sex. You married your idea of the perfect man and found out perfect men don't exist.

At each of those turning points in life you were presented with two things - consequences for the choices you've made and the opportunity to learn from your lesson.

One thing it seems you are being stubborn accepting is that if you really are jaded, it is only because that is how you have taught yourself to feel about the consequences of your choices in life. So find a therapist and unlearn those emotional behaviors so you can start to feel not so hopeless again.

Sorry I'm not trying to be mean, you are perfectly allowed to have constant pity parties, sometimes it is good to get it out of your system, but you have to celebrate the good parts of life too. The reason I felt compelled to write this is I can sense the anguish and sadness in your words, and I can hear that part of you wants to reach out for some kind of a lifeline from the universe, I can't really offer you one but I hope I can encourage you to keep yourself extended so that when the next ones comes you can grab it.


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

I don't get the hopelessly romantic part at all.

Yeah..so what. It's just been my life that's all. Apparently there is a difference in "sexually attractive" and attractive. We all know a guy don't necessarily have to see you as hot to bang you. Just have the right parts and be willing.

Constant pity parties. That's fine. You definitely have a right to call it as you see/perceive it. I am pretty much just trying to come to a point of acceptance. It don't get better. Your right, there is no perfect man for me. If I left my husband I would probably just trade one evil for another plus I don't want to have to beat a b!tch for mistreating my children.


----------



## Ikaika

HopelesslyJaded said:


> I guess we can go round and round on this subject. It seems though that every time I thought I might actually see a man prove me wrong, AAAACCCKKK WRONG!
> 
> Just a few snippets that I am sure haven't helped.
> 
> Losing my virginity to a guy I was totally head over heals for just for him to break up with me a week later. Basically I guess he figured out I was an easy target.
> 
> Being called Ms. Piggy by my date to homecoming (I was a size 10 then so I guess according to high school standards I was a fat cow) when up until that point I was actually thinking I looked alright and thought I would have a fun evening.
> 
> Wasn't careful, got pregnant at 19. Guess what, got the whole "how do I know it's mine" routine. I made sure he got his scientific proof. I actually gave him the benefit of the doubt with this one considering the horror stories of guys getting stuck with kids that aren't theirs. Well he got his 99.98% proof and he basically tells me to go find my son a father because it wasn't going to be him.
> 
> Then I get married. My dream man. The man that may finally prove me wrong. Honesty is good in a relationship right? He finds out I was little wild in my single days, thinks he missed out on something and mopes about it for almost a year till i give in and have a 3some so that he can "join the club" i guess because he felt like everyone else had done it but him apparently.
> 
> So then trying to be the exciting wife we go the exhibition route because I told him that sharing him would hurt my feelings. Well one night I guess curiosity gets the best of him and he literally gets up off of me during one of these sessions and takes up with the other woman in the room. And I end up watching my husband **** someone else. There's an image I can't wash from my mind no matter what.
> 
> That's just a few of the highlights of the times that directly affected me. We are not counting what I've observed. So yeah. I feel I've earned my title.


HJ, I am sorry for the experience you have had, I had no idea ... it is understandable that you are jaded. I am sure anything I have to say rings hollow. Needless to say I can only assure that your experience does not necessarily paint the picture of every man. 

I hope you continue to find healing. Again, sorry that these men you encountered were the real pigs. No woman is deserving of such treatment.


----------



## Lyris

drerio said:


> I would say - you make some good points, but it over generalizes all men. I parade my wife around for different reason. She can kick a$$ when it comes to scrabble. She is so damn good she beat my SIL's mother who is an award winning author from Canada. So yea, she hot, I find intelligence sexy. Not interested in some ditzy hooters girl... Yawn.


I know it's not all men, hence my use of the qualifiers 'some' and 'more likely'.


----------



## FalconKing

HJ, How do you feel when men come here who have had bad experiences with their wives and they hate women? Do you think it's justified? Do you think it's right for that man to think of you negatively when the only thing you have in common with women who've scarred him is being the same gender?


----------



## Ikaika

Here you go... I love this woman (no I am not in love with her, just like that she stood up for something). Where I am from we are far less critical.

CBS WKBT News Anchor's On-Air Response to Viewer Calling Her Fat (Oct. 2nd, 2012) - YouTube


----------



## Caribbean Man

".......Nobody will ever win the Battle of the Sexes. There's just too much fraternizing with the enemy......."

Henry Kissinger 1923


----------



## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> HJ, How do you feel when men come here who have had bad experiences with their wives and they hate women? Do you think it's justified? Do you think it's right for that man to think of you negatively when the only thing you have in common with women who've scarred him is being the same gender?


Don't know if I have visited many of those threads. Probably too easy to find them being hypocrites. To a degree I am use to being judged and to a degree I am not. I just think sometimes I am wanting you to be more realistic.

What I have seen more of is men feeling like they are allowed to live a different standard simply because they are men. Meanwhile feeling they have a right to be critical of women for being similar to them. And this covers a broad spectrum from weight to sexuality. These are single and married men. So many things swim around in my head when I read this stuff.

Here's one recent question that popped in my mind. After seeing on here how critical people can be when it comes to women and their sexuality. How nasty it can get on here with talks of 3 somes, couple swapping and people having a high number of partners in general. But the same people are avid porn watchers. So are they getting off to these people on the screen and monitor all the while judging them for doing what they do. Oh she's hot and I sure wanna fantasize about doing her but she's gross. If that woman were on here (the one they are masturbating to in the flick) what kind of descriptors would be used for her...low value, gross, disgusting, whvre.....a whole host of things. But your turning to her in private for pleasure. Isn't it hypocritical to use porn if your opinion is such of the people in them?


----------



## Caribbean Man

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Don't know if I have visited many of those threads. Probably too easy to find them being hypocrites. To a degree I am use to being judged and to a degree I am not. I just think sometimes I am wanting you to be more realistic.
> 
> What I have seen more of is men feeling like they are allowed to live a different standard simply because they are men. Meanwhile feeling they have a right to be critical of women for being similar to them. And this covers a broad spectrum from weight to sexuality. These are single and married men. So many things swim around in my head when I read this stuff.
> 
> Here's one recent question that popped in my mind. After seeing on here how critical people can be when it comes to women and their sexuality. How nasty it can get on here with talks of 3 somes, couple swapping and people having a high number of partners in general. But the same people are avid porn watchers. So are they getting off to these people on the screen and monitor all the while judging them for doing what they do. Oh she's hot and I sure wanna fantasize about doing her but she's gross. If that woman were on here (the one they are masturbating to in the flick) what kind of descriptors would be used for her...low value, gross, disgusting, whvre.....a whole host of things. But your turning to her in private for pleasure. Isn't it hypocritical to use porn if your opinion is such of the people in them?


Jade,
You're heading down a slippery slope there.
We all love sport, whether it be bodybuilding, boxing , athletics, swimming, baseball, football , soccer whatever..
The plain fact is that most professional athletes USE BANNED ILLEGAL DRUGS classified as steroids.
Does that mean that those who love the sport an either look at them on TV or live at the stadia have double standards, because they don't approve of the use of steroids?

Equating looking at porn with an acceptance of their lifestyle is a slippery slope because,these people are PAID ACTORS , depicting a work of fantasy. Just like actors in a horror movie " kill" for fun.

I absolutely love Luthor Vandross and his music, but that does not mean that have a double standard because i'm hetrosexual.


----------



## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> Don't know if I have visited many of those threads. Probably too easy to find them being hypocrites. To a degree I am use to being judged and to a degree I am not.* I just think sometimes I am wanting you to be more realistic.*
> 
> What I have seen more of is men feeling like they are allowed to live a different standard simply because they are men. Meanwhile feeling they have a right to be critical of women for being similar to them. And this covers a broad spectrum from weight to sexuality. These are single and married men. So many things swim around in my head when I read this stuff.
> 
> Here's one recent question that popped in my mind. After seeing on here how critical people can be when it comes to women and their sexuality. How nasty it can get on here with talks of 3 somes, couple swapping and people having a high number of partners in general. But the same people are avid porn watchers. So are they getting off to these people on the screen and monitor all the while judging them for doing what they do. Oh she's hot and I sure wanna fantasize about doing her but she's gross. If that woman were on here (the one they are masturbating to in the flick) what kind of descriptors would be used for her...low value, gross, disgusting, whvre.....a whole host of things. But your turning to her in private for pleasure. Isn't it hypocritical to use porn if your opinion is such of the people in them?


I don't think I make a habit of saying unrealistic things. If you are referring to my post about a 400lb man, if I didn't say it like that then some people would use miniscule stipulations to avoid answering the question. If you find most of my post to be unrealistic I would like some examples of such. Maybe you don't like what I have to say but I always try to keep it real. On other hand, i'm just wanting you to at least be more objective towards men. 

If you have resentment towards men obviously you are going to take any post made by men speaking about women and form something negative. Also, some men do hold women to the same standards of themselves. I don't drink, smoke, sleep around and I workout regularly. If I want these same things in a woman or not it is still my right. Didn't you mention in one of your post that you have children, but if you were single again you would not want a man who has children? That's a double standard right? But you have that right if you think it will be better for your relationship and you feel you also bring something to him that is special. What you are complaining about works both ways. Yes, some men do want a woman who has had less partners than them or is thinner than them. Some women want a man who makes more money than them. I know that you are going to say. Those women are golddiggers. Well they are still women. If you are quick to distance yourself for being different than those types of women than guess what? You have to be willing to do the same for men too. 

Well what's worse? Looking at porn and masturbating to somebody who has no communication with you, all the while knowing you would never marry or be with this kind of person. Or having threesomes with people and physically bringing other people into the relationship? Also you are making black and white statements. Every person who thinks those things are disgusting does not watch porn. Some people do not watch porn at all. Also, i'll tell you something else. A lot of men watch porn because they enjoy seeing a woman who likes being sexually fulfilled. You can take good and bad from anyone or anything. I like how a stripper embraces her sexuality. I do not like how it's open for any man to see if he pays enough. There also may be other reasons he is turning to porn. Some men, just as women, may just have problems. We are not perfect. How about some understanding sometimes.


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## FalconKing

Caribbean Man said:


> I absolutely love Luthor Vandross and his music, but that does not mean that have a double standard because i'm hetrosexual.


:rofl::rofl: I hear you CB.


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## HopelesslyJaded

FalconKing said:


> I don't think I make a habit of saying unrealistic things. If you are referring to my post about a 400lb man, if I didn't say it like that then some people would use miniscule stipulations to avoid answering the question. If you find most of my post to be unrealistic I would like some examples of such. Maybe you don't like what I have to say but I always try to keep it real. On other hand, i'm just wanting you to at least be more objective towards men.
> 
> If you have resentment towards men obviously you are going to take any post made by men speaking about women and form something negative. Also, some men do hold women to the same standards of themselves. I don't drink, smoke, sleep around and I workout regularly. If I want these same things in a woman or not it is still my right.* Didn't you mention in one of your post that you have children, but if you were single again you would not want a man who has children?* That's a double standard right? But you have that right if you think it will be better for your relationship and you feel you also bring something to him that is special. What you are complaining about works both ways. Yes, some men do want a woman who has had less partners than them or is thinner than them. Some women want a man who makes more money than them. I know that you are going to say. Those women are golddiggers. Well they are still women. If you are quick to distance yourself for being different than those types of women than guess what? You have to be willing to do the same for men too.
> 
> *No, what I did say was.....I was a single mother for a couple years before I met my husband. I had hopes that I would meet a man who didn't already have children to make things easier. It was not requirement. It wasn't on the checklist because I knew it to be hypocritical. IF i were to divorce, it wouldn't matter whether a guy had kids or not. I don't plan on ever getting that serious again. For sure not while I am responsible for my kids.*
> 
> Well what's worse? Looking at porn and masturbating to somebody who has no communication with you, all the while knowing you would* never marry or be with this kind of person*. Or having threesomes with people and physically bringing other people into the relationship? *Also you are making black and white statements. Every person who thinks those things are disgusting does not watch porn.* Some people do not watch porn at all. Also, i'll tell you something else. A lot of men watch porn because they enjoy seeing a woman who likes being sexually fulfilled. You can take good and bad from anyone or anything. I like how a stripper embraces her sexuality. I do not like how it's open for any man to see if he pays enough. There also may be other reasons he is turning to porn. Some men, just as women, may just have problems. We are not perfect. How about some understanding sometimes.


*Not black and white. I referred to those that do watch it. Like seeing a woman who is sexually fulfilled? LOL But yet judge her for doing it? That's my point. You all claim to want a woman who embraces her sexuality and enjoys being sexually fulfilled like the women you are use to seeing in porn but yet vilify and look down upon them when they do. 

You tell a woman certain behavior is unacceptable but masturbate to it in private. Do you not see how that can be confusing and not make sense?

It's just food for thought. And by the way I can tell you from experience, one of the highlights not in my previous post, that porn can hurt almost as much as the live person when it's being chosen over you.*


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## FalconKing

HopelesslyJaded said:


> *Not black and white. I referred to those that do watch it. Like seeing a woman who is sexually fulfilled? LOL But yet judge her for doing it? That's my point. You all claim to want a woman who embraces her sexuality and enjoys being sexually fulfilled like the women you are use to seeing in porn but yet vilify and look down upon them when they do.
> 
> You tell a woman certain behavior is unacceptable but masturbate to it in private. Do you not see how that can be confusing and not make sense?
> 
> It's just food for thought. And by the way I can tell you from experience, one of the highlights not in my previous post, that porn can hurt almost as much as the live person when it's being chosen over you.*


Like I pointed out, people are different. And everyone has their fantasy and their reality. Some people think about things when they masturbate that they would never do. Maybe you do not. But some do. Everyone is judging someone else for something. It's what we all do. You have judged that all men are bad:yawn2:. Also, let me explain it like this. I want certain things in a relationship. I want a woman who enjoys sex but I also want a woman who has been in monogamous committed relationships. So if see a woman who embraces her sexuality but has a high number of partners and a low number of committed relationships, I decide that's not what I want. But there are still things about her that I like. I just would never date her. If a man is in a sexless marriage and his wife doesn't even want to be naked around him, what do you think he's going to do when he has a primal urge to see a naked woman? Probably porn. He's not thinking about how he want's his wife to sleep with 30 dudes(well maybe some guys do:yawn2, he's enjoying seeing the female body in motion and a woman enjoying herself. Because his relationship is deprived of that experience with his wife. 

I do understand how it looks. But with what I was saying, some men use porn for an outlet when they do not get sex. I guess you were speaking of how some men choose porn over their lovers and try to get them live up to what they see on the pornos. I am one of those guys that if I am having sex with a woman in a committed relationship then I don't need porn. What you have described is not healthy IMO but I think most men don't do that. Not everyone has had the same experiences as you and the things done to you are not what all men do to all women. That's what i'm trying to get you to see.


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## HopelesslyJaded

Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I had *ONE* prove me wrong. I thought my husband was it. I think after one has been picked over so many times the ultimate letdown is to have it done to you by your own husband. Even the one that loves you (cause I do believe he does) to do it. Then it's a toss up of acceptance feeling like he's really no different than the rest or being alone. Whereas it's still acceptance but without the feelings.


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## FalconKing

What attracted you to your husband in the beginning? How did you feel he was different?


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## HopelesslyJaded

He stayed. He wasn't embarassed to be seen in public with me. He treated my child like his own. I didn't have to ask him to make necessary transitions from single life to relationship life like going out all the time and such. He just did it. I just saw and felt something different.

He made me feel superior to other women.


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## Starstarfish

I feel like the ruler of non-sequitor land, but -for point of reference, my sumo comment comes with a personal antecedent. 

Yes, FalconKing, I did once date a man significantly bigger than myself. Was he 400 lbs? Probably not, more like 300 - 325. We never had sex, so - I couldn't tell you if your description is accurate as far as how it would go with a bigger man. 

I can say, however, despite him being 300-325 lbs himself, the reason, indeed, we stopped dating, was that I, at a size 14 (I was roughly like 185, at that point - yes, I could lose weight myself, that's a whole separate conversation) and 5'7" was too fat for him.
Which, he didn't even tell me himself, he told the friend who set us up to give me the news, and then he just stopped calling.

So, I, myself was willing to give a bigger dude a chance, yes, because he was well employed, funny, we had similiar interests, etc. I was willing to give it a shot, but, ultimately got turned down.


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## Torrivien

Hope :/

It's painful to know that you decided to never be convinced of your worth.
If you focus on s*** that happened to you, than you'll never be able to be happy.
You're a good mother, you did a miracle with your work outs, and you're a good wife.

Pleasing people will usually end up devastating to you.
It's not people were d*cks to you because they are d*cks not because of you.


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## FalconKing

> He stayed. He wasn't embarassed to be seen in public with me. He treated my child like his own. I didn't have to ask him to make necessary transitions from single life to relationship life like going out all the time and such. He just did it. I just saw and felt something different.
> 
> He made me feel superior to other women.


Well maybe he has his own issues that have nothing to do with you. When that happens even our best efforts sometimes offer little improvement. But we can't feel like something is wrong with us. I think maybe you have self esteem issues. You never really seem to see your positive qualities. I'm also guessing you didn't have a lot of positive male role models growing. You have lost all hope and trust in men. So a man(me and other posters) giving you compliments or words of encouragement probably means very little to you may even seem insincere. HJ I dunno man. I don't mean you any harm. I do realize that I rub a lot of females the wrong way here. But, I think a lot of issues some may have may have to do with what they think of men in general.


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## HopelesslyJaded

Torrivien said:


> Hope :/
> 
> It's painful to know that you decided to never be convinced of your worth.
> If you focus on s*** that happened to you, than you'll never be able to be happy.
> You're a good mother, you did a miracle with your work outs, and you're a good wife.
> 
> Pleasing people will usually end up devastating to you.
> It's not people were d*cks to you because they are d*cks not because of you.


Before he let me down those past things didn't hurt so bad anymore. I was more at peace with them. Once he did what he did it compounded and in my mind put him with the rest of them. If that makes sense.

Me feeling like I was enough and his one and only since we met is part of what made me feel superior (in his eyes) to other women. After seeing what I saw it's impossible for me to feel that way anymore. And feeling that way (superior) is what fueled my passion for him. I still love him. But that passion is gone.


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## Torrivien

I had to go several posts back to read what he did. Oh my god, that's an aweful thing to do ? He basically cheated on you. 
Did you talk about it afterwards ? Did he explain himself to you ?


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## HopelesslyJaded

Torrivien said:


> I had to go several posts back to read what he did. Oh my god, that's an aweful thing to do ? He basically cheated on you.
> Did you talk about it afterwards ? Did he explain himself to you ?


He claimed he couldn't explain. "He wasn't sure why" But he knew it was wrong and he was sorry.


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## Torrivien

HopelesslyJaded said:


> He claimed he couldn't explain. "He wasn't sure why" But he knew it was wrong and he was sorry.


:/
Gracious of you to forgive him. But you should have made him do chores for a decade!!

I know it sounds dull and flat, but like FalconKing said you shouldn't see this kind of actions as having anything to do with you. People suck big time most of the times.


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## Torrivien

Starstarfish said:


> I feel like the ruler of non-sequitor land, but -for point of reference, my sumo comment comes with a personal antecedent.
> 
> Yes, FalconKing, I did once date a man significantly bigger than myself. Was he 400 lbs? Probably not, more like 300 - 325. We never had sex, so - I couldn't tell you if your description is accurate as far as how it would go with a bigger man.
> 
> I can say, however, despite him being 300-325 lbs himself, the reason, indeed, we stopped dating, was that I, at a size 14 (I was roughly like 185, at that point - yes, I could lose weight myself, that's a whole separate conversation) and 5'7" was too fat for him.
> Which, he didn't even tell me himself, he told the friend who set us up to give me the news, and then he just stopped calling.
> 
> So, I, myself was willing to give a bigger dude a chance, yes, because he was well employed, funny, we had similiar interests, etc. I was willing to give it a shot, but, ultimately got turned down.


My ex wife has some excessive pounds but I used to like that about her. Anyway, four/five years ago back when we were dating I had 4 pounds more and overheard her saying over the phone that she thought my belly was disgusting. (I was like WTF!)
People can be weirdly blind to their own flaws.


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## HopelesslyJaded

Torrivien said:


> :/
> Gracious of you to forgive him. But you should have made him do chores for a decade!!
> 
> I know it sounds dull and flat, but like FalconKing said you shouldn't see this kind of actions as having anything to do with you. People suck big time most of the times.


We'll both pay. I will never forget and he'll have a wife that will never look at him the same.


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## Torrivien

I hear you. I rarely get over disappointement.


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## Ikaika

HopelesslyJaded said:


> We'll both pay. I will never forget and he'll have a wife that will never look at him the same.


:'(


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## EnjoliWoman

HopelesslyJaded said:


> We'll both pay. I will never forget and he'll have a wife that will never look at him the same.


That's sad. I get it - still sad. 

And if I just saw you on the street I'd probably be envious - pretty woman w husband... just goes to show things aren't always as they seem.


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## FalconKing

Torrivien said:


> People can be weirdly blind to their own flaws.


I know right?

When I was seeing my EX-GF my friend called me and told me how he and his girlfriend at the time were having problems. She wanted to marry and he wasn't ready. They had no kids together. She couldn't have anymore. He felt like marriage would only hurt him if things didn't work out. My EX-GF was adamant about wishing my friend would just get dumped. She said he didn't respect how special and wonderful marriage is. She said marriage was a precious gift. I thought that was funny she would say that considering that her and her husband cheated on each other in their marriage and after her divorce she slept with married men:scratchhead: I'm sure all those wives thought she did a good job respecting their marriages


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## Torrivien

Projection, projection, projection.


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