# Fantasizing about husband with other woman



## Beth2548 (May 27, 2021)

Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Even if you are here fishing read below. 









Using a selfie as your Avitar (probably not a good idea).


It's always wise to avoid using things that identify you on the forum, particularly real names and self portraits. The reason is twofold - It allows you to speak more freely and therefor enabling you to tell your story without worrying that someone, like your family, friends or partner will...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Leave it as a fantasy, that's my advise. Unless you want to destroy the marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Video yourself and husband together and see if that works to deal with your somewhat dangerous idea?

Counselling might help.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

That is mostly a hazardous road. That said a couple regular contributors here have much experience there and may be additional sources of info for you, outside the be careful typical advice, @maquiscat .


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


You are not weird. This is not an uncommon fantasy, although your intensity might be a little less common.

If your marriage is as good as you claim, then in and of itself, any idea of opening it up is not raising a red flag. As I have noted to others, ENM is not a cure to bad relationships. As long as the relationship is solid, EMH can be used for situations like yours. But you say that you don't want to do that. One alternative that I can think of off the top of my head, that would not involve your H actually sleeping with another woman, is to have him go out and flirt with other woman, while you are nearby to watch. He shouldn't lead them on (if they get the wrong idea despite that, it's their problem), but maybe that flirting will be a good substitute for your actual fantasy.

The biggest question is what is it that you want? If you want the fantasy out of your head, you might need to see a professional. The fantasy itself isn't wrong, but if it is causing you anxiety/stress then it is a problem.

Have you mentioned this fantasy to your husband?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

maquiscat said:


> You are not weird. This is not an uncommon fantasy, although your intensity might be a little less common.
> 
> If your marriage is as good as you claim, then in and of itself, any idea of opening it up is not raising a red flag. As I have noted to others, ENM is not a cure to bad relationships. As long as the relationship is solid, EMH can be used for situations like yours. But you say that you don't want to do that. One alternative that I can think of off the top of my head, that would not involve your H actually sleeping with another woman, is to have him go out and flirt with other woman, while you are nearby to watch. He shouldn't lead them on (if they get the wrong idea despite that, it's their problem), but maybe that flirting will be a good substitute for your actual fantasy.
> 
> ...


My man.

Speak his name and he appears! 👍👍


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Video yourself and husband together and see if that works to deal with your somewhat dangerous idea?
> 
> Counselling might help.


That's what I thought also. Watching a video of the two of them.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

maquiscat said:


> You are not weird. This is not an uncommon fantasy, although your intensity might be a little less common.
> 
> If your marriage is as good as you claim, then in and of itself, any idea of opening it up is not raising a red flag. As I have noted to others, ENM is not a cure to bad relationships. As long as the relationship is solid, EMH can be used for situations like yours. But you say that you don't want to do that. One alternative that I can think of off the top of my head, that would not involve your H actually sleeping with another woman, is to have him go out and flirt with other woman, while you are nearby to watch. He shouldn't lead them on (if they get the wrong idea despite that, it's their problem), but maybe that flirting will be a good substitute for your actual fantasy.
> 
> ...


I would see that as using another woman and any sort of flirting is surely leading someone on?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Beth2548 said:


> Am I really weird


Yes.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


Just my personal opinion, but I would keep this solidly in fantasy land. I think it is fine to talk about it, talk dirty about what he would do to another woman maybe, but involving another person is going to be asking for disaster IMO. Try dressing up pretending to be someone else. Some kind of role playing. Put on a wig and try not to look like yourself and make a video that the two of you watch.


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## Beth2548 (May 27, 2021)

I've thought about all those ideas, were not interested in involving other people sexually. He's the kind of person who is really preoccupied with other things. We've talked about all this openly and were truly best friends. He is clear on the fact that he loves me very much,I'm beautiful & perfect to him and were faithful. But I think he's a little in denial about some things. What i really want to try out is getting him a good sex toy. He's expressed interested in using them and I'm curious to see what we can get that he likes. I got him one the other day and surprisingly he used it right away lol but I want to find a better one for him.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Video yourself and husband together and see if that works to deal with your somewhat dangerous idea?


Virtual reality has come a long way as the new Quest 2 headset is standalone and can handle 5K resolution at very high frame rates. VR 180 cameras are now readily attainable as well and can even live stream to someone wearing a headset. This could possibly allow the OP to have a 3rd person view of her own 1st person experience while being intimate with her husband. Almost as if having an outer-body experience in real time. To avoid motion sickness the OP would need to be in a stationary seated position (cowgirl) and have the VR 180 camera streaming from the same viewing level in a stationary position (say a few feet behind, in front or beside her). While this might seem very similar to watching your reflection in a mirror (she could give that a try as well), it allows for the user to remotely shift their viewing position to any spot in the room. So you could stare at yourself from directly behind and less than a few feet away. Put on a wig and live the fantasy. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

It’s not as common in women as it is in men, or at least women don’t admit to it or bring it up as much, but there are women out there with “Hot Husband” fantasies that have fantasies of watching their partners with other women.

My wife had that fantasy for a long, long time and I basically did not think she was all that serious about it and I did not take it that seriously either.

We had been in the swinging lifestyle for many years but that was all couple/couple and group sex encounters.

We had had a few FMF threesomes before but that was with my wife participating and often the women were more enticed by being with her at least as much as if not more than being with me. 

We had excellent communication and had years of experience in consensual nonmonogamy so the thought of it was not as shocking to us as it is to most people.

Several years ago as our swinging days were winding to a close and we were having a heart-to-heart conversation about our place in the cosmos, I asked her if there were any fantasies or any activities that she wanted to do before the door was closed on the swinging for good.

She said she wanted to watch me from the shadows and use her vibrator and not be a participant at all. She just wanted to watch me.

I was ok in principle but the real crux would be finding the other party without going the route of a professional (not legal in our state).

I said I would try but it would be a tall order to find another woman that is game for just being watched with me as I am no Calvin Klein male model or pro athlete or rock star or anything. 

I ended up contacting an old FWB from clear back in my early 20s back in the ‘80s (yes, it was a very interesting phone call LOL)

She was/is a very free-spirit and kind of a hippy chick and had had a pretty colorful sex life back in the day,, and she and I had always had very good sexual chemistry between us when we were 20 years old.

Anyway, surprisingly enough she was intrigued and and also agreed in principle. 

My wife contacted her and they talked for awhile to assure each other that it was all on the up and up and make sure it wasn’t just me getting wild ideas. 

We all went out for dinner to get acquainted/reacquainted and then got a very nice hotel suite.

A good time was had by all and everyone went home with a smile.

The sky did not fall. No fire rained down from the heavens. The oceans did not boil and there were no dogs and cats living together. 

There were no STDs. No jealousy. No one fell in love with someone they weren’t supposed to. No one tried to steal anyone away. There was not marital discord in any way.

It was simply 3 consenting adults having a very fun and memorable evening, then going on about their normal lives. 

It IS a fantasy that some women have. It is a thing. 

The real crux and challenge of it is finding another woman willing to participate. And the thing to keep in mind there is if this is something you are wanting to do, than the success of it will lay heavily with how willing YOU are to make the proposal to the other women. 

They will have a much higher likelihood of participating if the offer is coming from you and that it is YOUR fantasy.

Otherwise they’ll just think it is him trying to score some extra tail.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> It IS a fantasy that some women have. It is a thing.
> 
> The real crux and challenge of it is finding another woman willing to participate. And the thing to keep in mind there is if this is something you are wanting to do, than the success of it will lay heavily with how willing YOU are to make the proposal to the other women.
> 
> ...



This is a key component that I want to reiterate so it doesn’t get skipped over at the end of the TLDR version above.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> It’s not as common in women as it is in men, or at least women don’t admit to it or bring it up as much, but there are women out there with “Hot Husband” fantasies that have fantasies of watching their partners with other women.
> 
> My wife had that fantasy for a long, long time and I basically did not think she was all that serious about it and I did not take it that seriously either.
> 
> ...


She has said she doesn't want another person involved.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> It’s not as common in women as it is in men, or at least women don’t admit to it or bring it up as much, but there are women out there with “Hot Husband” fantasies that have fantasies of watching their partners with other women.
> 
> My wife had that fantasy for a long, long time and I basically did not think she was all that serious about it and I did not take it that seriously either.
> 
> ...


Sorry if this is a thread jack but how is your sex life now? Your relationship with your wife?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

edited due to misquote.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> She has said she doesn't want another person involved.


That is her perogative either way on whether she wants to actually do it in real life or not. 

My point is that there are women out there who DO have that fantasy and people who have done it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Whether the OP goes through with actually doing it or not to me is kind of moot. Her mere interest and potential discussion with her husband is sure to at least spice things up. I think its great that they might be able to at least fantasize about such things and share fantasies bewteen them. Thats awesome.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes.


You are opening a Pandora’s box you will later regret. Cease!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> You are opening a Pandora’s box you will later regret. Cease!


I'm not sure about that however as maybe just talking about it might be beneficial? I mean, I have the exact opposite in my marriage as my wife dislikes sex or even talking about sex and I am considering divorce over THAT so it can go both ways.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Sorry if this is a thread jack but how is your sex life now? Your relationship with your wife?


Ain't no sunshine in his world.😉


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Ain't no sunshine in his world.😉


I would then surmise in the end it didn’t bode well. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I would then surmise in the end it didn’t bode well. 🤷🏼‍♀️


All I can say is it's always "sunny" in the land of this barbarian.😁


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> All I can say is it's always "sunny" in the land of this barbarian.😁


Can I ask how Mrs. Conan would feel about you having sex with someone else while she watched?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Can I ask how Mrs. Conan would feel about you having sex with someone else while she watched?


Watch any Toshiro Mifune movie and picture her holding the sword.

I'm definitely a territorial barbarian. Mrs. Conan is a territorial samurai in my service.

She straight up told me when we were seriously committed and dating for several months that if I married someone else, she would show up with a katana and bisect the wedding cake.😉


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Watch any Toshiro Mifune movie and picture her holding the sword.
> 
> I'm definitely a territorial barbarian. Mrs. Conan is a territorial samurai in my service.
> 
> She straight up told me when we were seriously committed and dating for several months that if I married someone else, she would show up with a katana and bisect the wedding cake.😉


😂 It certainly is another breed that can do it. Not in my wheel house.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Watch any Toshiro Mifune movie and picture her holding the sword.
> 
> I'm definitely a territorial barbarian. Mrs. Conan is a territorial samurai in my service.
> 
> She straight up told me when we were seriously committed and dating for several months that if I married someone else, she would show up with a katana and bisect the wedding cake.😉


Do not ...I repeat...do not piss that lady off.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Can I ask how Mrs. Conan would feel about you having sex with someone else while she watched?


Not really a fair question as most people are not going to be into that kind of thing. 

The vast majority of people in the world don’t want their partner rubbing up against other people. 

And even though some people may have fantasies of such, many will choose to not act on it in real life. 

Most couples simply don’t do this kind of thing in real life or even want to - but some do. 

As far as my own current sex life, as was mentioned above,, not a whole lotta sunshine these days. 

But considering the supernova (or at least lots of solar flares LOL) of years past, I don’t really have room to complain. 

Did our lifestyle choices cause or at least contribute to our current situation??? Maybe. Maybe not. 

It could have. But it could also be a that we are in our 50s (I’m closer to 60) have been together over 25 years, menopause, health issues, medications, weight gain, hair loss, work stress (we’re both medical professionals in the time of covid), death of parents, illness of parents, teenagers in the house raising hell etc etc etc etc etc 

Does any kind of consensual nonmonogamy carry risks of marital trouble? Absolutely. 

Does monogamy always mitigate those risks? Absolutely not. 

How many traditional, monogamous marriages either end or end up unsatisfying or even miserable within 25 years?

How many people in their 50s with declining health and vitality, weight gain, life stressors etc etc have comparatively lackluster sex lives compared to their younger days? 

It all comes down to temperament and risk tolerance vs risk management. 

If you believe that nonmonogamy raises the risks to unacceptable levels for you, then don’t do it. 

If you accept that life has no guarantees and that risks and hazards are all around us no matter what we do and that half of all marriages end even with monogamy, then are you willing to incur a little more risk for higher reward??


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Ain't no sunshine in his world.😉


I hope you aren't being flippant...because that's not like you.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Not really a fair question as most people are not going to be into that kind of thing.
> 
> The vast majority of people in the world don’t want their partner rubbing up against other people.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with this...ALL of the marriages that I have seen end have been monogamous, including my own.

And there are plenty of other posters here on TAM who practice non-monogamy who have very successful marriages, and are STILL non-monogamous.

So it's not really a correlation that can be made accurately.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

LisaDiane said:


> I hope you aren't being flippant...because that's not like you.


I'm being easy going and I'm not going down this particular rabbit hole today.

He is more than capable of taking up his cause.

My statement was simply the truth as he has shared it and no slight was intended.

There are far more serious issues in the world right now and I'm actually dealing with some of them. Let's all lighten the hell up a little and stop taking every single thing personal and offensive.

The dude isn't getting any. He has my sympathies and I've expressed them to him in other threads.

Relax. Some of us might not be here so long. What's worth getting worked up over?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> I'm being easy going and I'm not going down this particular rabbit hole today.
> 
> He is more than capable of taking up his cause.
> 
> ...


That's why I asked...I absolutely didn't mean to appear to attack you. 

I'm not worked up at all, I tried to sound as mild as I felt.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Not really a fair question as most people are not going to be into that kind of thing.
> 
> The vast majority of people in the world don’t want their partner rubbing up against other people.
> 
> ...


I apologize if my question was not fair. I know that when my STBXH suggested that I have sex with someone else that it hurt me worse than his affair. I understand clearly how monogamy for the long haul is difficult especially today when women have no issue screwing married men. The suggestion to me indicated that I was not special if he was willing to share me with someone else sexually. I wondered if that was part of the reason your sex life with your wife is now non existent. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I apologize if my question was not fair. I know that when my STBXH suggested that I have sex with someone else that it hurt me worse than his affair. I understand clearly how monogamy for the long haul is difficult especially today when women have no issue screwing married men. The suggestion to me indicated that I was not special if he was willing to share me with someone else sexually. I wondered if that was part of the reason your sex life with your wife is now non existent. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I can fully understand why you felt so hurt. Such a disrespectful and totally unloving thing to do. 
Yes there are some men and women who think nothing of having sex with married people but thankfully more that want to stay faithful.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I can fully understand why you felt so hurt. Such a disrespectful and totally unloving thing to do.
> Yes there are some men and women who think nothing of having sex with married people but thankfully more that want to stay faithful.


I’m starting to think no one cares anymore. 🤷🏼‍♀️😳


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m starting to think no one cares anymore. 🤷🏼‍♀️😳


Yes they do. I know loads and loads of faithful couples. Even if 40% cheat that still leaves billions who don't.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> I apologize if my question was not fair. I know that when my STBXH suggested that I have sex with someone else that it hurt me worse than his affair. I understand clearly how monogamy for the long haul is difficult especially today when women have no issue screwing married men. The suggestion to me indicated that I was not special if he was willing to share me with someone else sexually. I wondered if that was part of the reason your sex life with your wife is now non existent. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I understand where you are coming from and I understand your reaction when your husband suggested that. 

But it is not an apples to apples comparison to the OP's situation. You were already having serious marital issues and had experienced infidelity. 

The OP has not indicated any marital problems, and I think it makes a difference that SHE is the one with the fantasy of seeing him with someone else. 

A guy is either going to be interested in accommodating her fantasy or he won't. He's not going to sit and fret about it 24/7 and or think that she doesn't care about him. The thought that is going to go through most men's minds is, "awesome!!!" 

If a guy doesn't want to or if he doesn't think it's a good idea, he is simply going to say no and then go on about his business and make a T-time for golf or something. He's not going to dwell on it and let it fester into a big issue worrying about it. Men are simple machines. 

A more insecure and jealous man might fear that her wanting to see him with another woman is really an elaborate plot and scheme to get with another man. 

In fact, I am surprised no one here has brought that up yet. The fear of women getting with other men runs so deep that someone here is always sounding the alarm bell that a woman may actually be concocting some elaborate conspiracy to scam some unsuspecting soul into her getting with another dude.... but I digress. 

As far as my situation, I can't say for sure whether our previous lifestyle had any bearing on our current situation or not. We are not technically sexless or in a true DB. We get along fine and would probably have sex if the other were to ask nicely. 

It's possible our previous life is a factor. But as I said above, we've been together over 25 years and we are both in our 50s. Compared to most other couples in their 50s that have been together over 25 years, our current sex life today is probably pretty dang good compared to the rest. Then when you add in the menopause, the chronic migraines, the medications, the covid job stress etc etc etc etc etc etc Who's to say how much our previous lifestyle is a factor? 

One could probably even make the argument that our lifestyle has put us in a BETTER position today because we had developed excellent communication skills and had a very sex-positive mindframe and had a whole lot of fun together as a couple. 

Without having a chrystal ball to look into an alternate universe to see how our lives would have been if we had remained traditional and monogamous, there's no way to know if we would have been in a better situation now or whether we would have hated each other and divorced years ago. 

Nonmonogamy does carry risks. Monogamy carries it's own risks and it's own pros and cons as well.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I understand where you are coming from and I understand your reaction when your husband suggested that.
> 
> But it is not an apples to apples comparison to the OP's situation. You were already having serious marital issues and had experienced infidelity.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> I have to agree with this...ALL of the marriages that I have seen end have been monogamous, including my own.
> 
> And there are plenty of other posters here on TAM who practice non-monogamy who have very successful marriages, and are STILL non-monogamous.
> 
> So it's not really a correlation that can be made accurately.


Considering current estimates are that only 4-5% of people in the US are in non-monogamous relationships, and an even smaller number are married, it is no surprise that you wouldn't know anyone in that situation that has divorced. I wonder what the relative success rate really is compared to monogamous relationships. Monogamous or non-monogamous, it really comes down to the compatibility of the two people. That said, going from a monogamous to non-monogamous relationship may sound cool, but shouldn't be taken lightly, IMO.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Considering current estimates are that only 4-5% of people in the US are in non-monogamous relationships, and an even smaller number are married, it is no surprise that you wouldn't know anyone in that situation that has divorced. I wonder what the relative success rate really is compared to monogamous relationships. Monogamous or non-monogamous, it really comes down to the compatibility of the two people. That said, going from a monogamous to non-monogamous relationship may sound cool, but shouldn't be taken lightly, IMO.


There is very little research on nonmonogamy and it would be hard to even define it for research purposes. Is a bisexual wife that gets with a girlfriend periodically with her H's knowledge and consent in the same catagory a swinging couple that has sex with other couples together? Is a polyamorous couple that have another person or couple that live with them and have sex with but they are all exclusive and committed to only the people in that household the same as a military couple that have a hall pass to do whatever they need to do to get by while one is on deployment? 

When I was doing my research into swinging years and years ago before we got into it, there were some statistics floating around the swinging community that swingers has slightly less divorce rates than the general population. Slightly less. 

As we have a lot of friends and acquaintances in the swinger community I have seen divorces and cheating and marital strife. But I have also seen just as much of those things in the vanilla community as well if not more. 

Yes, nonmonogamous couples run the risk of one falling for another and hitting the road. That does happen. 

But how many traditional couples get with someone at work or at the gym or in the nieghborhood or hook up on a business trip or on a Girls-Night-Out???

Relationships are very complex and there are a lot of constantly moving parts. nonmonogamy carries risks but so too does monogamy. 

I knew going into swinging that my wife could fall for some rich, handsome stud that we meet in the swinging lifestyle. 

But she is a conventionally beautiful woman and gets flirted up and hit on daily while shopping for groceries or filling her tank at the gas pump. The risk of her cheating or falling for someone else or packing up and leaving me for greener pastures is ever present anyway. 

My thought process prior to getting into swinging was that there would be a risk of her cheating/leaving, but that is an ever present risk whether we swing or not, so might as well get out and have some fun and excitement and at least have something to show for it if she bolts.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


Totally normal. I'd be surprised if you didn't have fantasies. No harm in this one. I hope you've told your husband. May really heat up things in the bedroom. I've shared fantasy ideas. Great results. Not sure if you want to do this for real, as in have another woman join you two. Gotta both be on board for that. And hope he does not fall for her.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I understand where you are coming from and I understand your reaction when your husband suggested that.
> 
> But it is not an apples to apples comparison to the OP's situation. You were already having serious marital issues and had experienced infidelity.
> 
> ...


No offense, but you could also be very biased because you’re simply too proud/hurt/guilt ridden to admit that you severely damaged your marriage via non-monogamy.

I think any spouse would, at least privately, be hurt by the offer of “sharing”... know I would..

I think after all the sex urges are satisfied the participants are left with reality.... “they don’t truly love me, otherwise they wouldn’t share me”.

This doesn’t even mention the possible fact that participants could procreate children. Is this reality even considered or is it assumed that these poor unborn babies will be slaughtered in the womb? How fair is that to the babies?

Seems like the are a lot of good, practical reasons why monogamy is always best.

Not bragging here, but my wife and I are in fifties (monogamous!) and sex is hotter than ever (just need to steal her away from kids). We actually don’t need porn/toys/etc.. rather just a little wine/music/relaxation/time.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> No offense, but you could also be very biased because you’re simply too proud/hurt/guilt ridden to admit that you severely damaged your marriage via non-monogamy.
> 
> I think any spouse would, at least privately, be hurt by the offer of “sharing”... know I would..
> 
> ...


33+ years of monogamy and we are in our fifties too. I would say our sex life is as good or better than it ever has been since we were first married and it was very good at that time.

I think the only way you can have a non-monogamous relationship is if you can somehow separate sex and intimacy. If you just see sex as an act of pleasure I could see it working. Personally, I can't separate the two and I find it gut wrenching to even think about my wife being that intimate with another person and I'm sure she feels the same.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> 33+ years of monogamy and we are in our fifties too. I would say our sex life is as good or better than it ever has been since we were first married and it was very good at that time.
> 
> I think the only way you can have a non-monogamous relationship is if you can somehow separate sex and intimacy. If you just see sex as an act of pleasure I could see it working. Personally, I can't separate the two and I find it gut wrenching to even think about my wife being that intimate with another person and I'm sure she feels the same.


You and Catholic Dad are some of the lucky ones. Many of us didn't make that long in our marriages to find out (ex bailed out on me after 20 years due to my lack of earning potential).

And I mean that sincerely that you each have great sex lives after long term marriages. Thats great! Unfortunately the more I read here and elsewhere, I think that is being more of the anamoly than norm, Very few of my friends have made it past the 30 year mark let alone have great sex as well.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> I would see that as using another woman and any sort of flirting is surely leading someone on?


And that's you. Some of us flirt purely for the sake of flirting. I have flirted with many a married monogamous woman, who would never go beyond that, and they would flirt back. We both knew that it was as far as it would go. But here is part of the thing. Flirting is part of the evaluation process. So simply not resulting in a date or anything else is not leading someone on. They simply didn't make the cut. If you (the generalized you) expect a given result out of flirting, then you have been watching/reading too many romances.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> There is very little research on nonmonogamy and it would be hard to even define it for research purposes. Is a bisexual wife that gets with a girlfriend periodically with her H's knowledge and consent in the same catagory a swinging couple that has sex with other couples together? Is a polyamorous couple that have another person or couple that live with them and have sex with but they are all exclusive and committed to only the people in that household the same as a military couple that have a hall pass to do whatever they need to do to get by while one is on deployment?





> Relationships are very complex and there are a lot of constantly moving parts. nonmonogamy carries risks but so too does monogamy.


Most of the risks that ENM has, are the exact same ones that monogamy has. The odds, with no other factors being considered are probably higher in any given connection failing. However, a lot of the community learn how to communicate better than most of the monogamous community, so that balances the odds more.



> My thought process prior to getting into swinging was that there would be a risk of her cheating/leaving, but that is an ever present risk whether we swing or not, so might as well get out and have some fun and excitement and at least have something to show for it if she bolts.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think the only way you can have a non-monogamous relationship is if you can somehow separate sex and intimacy. If you just see sex as an act of pleasure I could see it working. Personally, I can't separate the two and I find it gut wrenching to even think about my wife being that intimate with another person and I'm sure she feels the same.


This is a factor indeed, if you are only talking about open/swinging. For such people, sex can be either an act of pleasure only, or one that also includes intimacy.

However, when it comes to poly, there is no need to separate out the two. You are engaging in both pleasure and intimacy with all your partners. That assumes that you have a sexual attraction as well as a romantic attraction to them. I am like that with both my wives, engaging in both pleasure and intimacy with them, whereas with my husband we only have the emotional intimacy with each other but not physical intimacy. When it comes to my playmates, it's only about the pleasure, although I have to admit that I do need at least a friendship with them before I can go that far.

I am by no means saying that everyone is capable of ENM. Most people are not. But there are still a lot of people who can and do, and many of them engage in poly, and not just open/swinging.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

maquiscat said:


> However, a lot of the community learn how to communicate better than most of the monogamous community, so that balances the odds more.


I fully agree with this. I am going so far as to say that many hookers and their jons communicate more effectively than many traditional monogamous couples. 

I think a lot of traditional couples make way too many assumptions about marital sexuality and fail to actually communicate about it. Many have been indoctrinated by society and media and religious dogma to the point they never speak of it. They each have been indoctrinated into the narative of what sex should be and they march in lock-step without ever asking any important questions or having serious communication. 

Then one day they wonder why they haven't had sex in two years or wonder why they came home one day to find their spouse out of the house and living with someone else. 

The alternative lifestyles on the other hand HAVE to talk about it. They are already out of the mainstream so they can't rely on dogma or social narative, they actually have to discuss what they want and what they are willing to provide. They have to state boundaries and parameters. 

I could argue that in my swinging days, I had more effective communication in an hour over drinks with new playmates than many traditional couples that have been married for decades. 

Hookers and jons communicate. Negotiate. Arrive at agreements. Sugar babies and sugar daddies communicate and each discuss what they are willing to give and wanting to receive and arrive at an arrangement. Gays and lesbians all have to discuss their interests and objectives as well as their boundaries, deal breakers and limits. Polys, swingers and open marriages all have to be open and honest and discuss their desires and wishes as well as their boundaries. 

I'm not saying that traditionalist do not ever do these things, but how much is explicitly spelled out vs relying on convention and assumption? 

bringing this back to the OP and thread topic, IMHO the OP's fantasy is normal. It may not be common in the mainstream but I'm willing to bet it is a lot more common that one would initially think as it's likely not something that many women discuss. 

Whether they actually do it in real life or not is up to them but the real value comes from the communication and sharing and exploring together whether they actually engage in it or not.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Considering current estimates are that only 4-5% of people in the US are in non-monogamous relationships, and an even smaller number are married, it is no surprise that you wouldn't know anyone in that situation that has divorced. I wonder what the relative success rate really is compared to monogamous relationships. Monogamous or non-monogamous, it really comes down to the compatibility of the two people. That said, going from a monogamous to non-monogamous relationship may sound cool, but shouldn't be taken lightly, IMO.


You missed my point completely. I was simply stating that for every marriage that I have seen fail, being monogamous HAS NOT protected the commitment and relationship one bit.

Like I said, in case you missed it, we have quite a few VERY successful married people on TAM who practice ethical non-monogamy. So I know THOSE couples are having NO problems with being non-monogamous.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> No offense, but you could also be very biased because you’re simply too proud/hurt/guilt ridden to admit that you severely damaged your marriage via non-monogamy.
> 
> I think any spouse would, at least privately, be hurt by the offer of “sharing”... know I would..
> 
> ...


No offense, but you could also be very biased because you're simply too proud/hurt/guilt ridden to admit that other people could have different relationship and sexual paradigms than you and that your way is not the only way. 

Now I have never denied that our previous lifestyle could have contributed to our current state. I admit it is possible. 

But as I said above, it's also possible that we may be in BETTER shape today as a couple than if we had not been in that lifestyle. 

One of the reasons people often point fingers at those with different lifestyles than themselves is what we all learned in Psyche 101 called attribution. We attribute someone's else's behaviors or problems on traits or characteristics that are different from us. If someone is somehow different, then we can feel somewhat safe in our situation that it won't happen to us. 

In otherwords you may feel a sense of security because you attribute my issues to my history with an alternative lifestyle and since you haven't been in that lifestyle and that is different from you, you feel a bit safer that it can't happen to you because I am "different." 

But you're not safe. You're not exempt. Monogamy does not offer any additional safeguards. 

I'm not sure nonmonogamy offers additional safeguards either. But for some people, it is a more natural and authentic way to live.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> You missed my point completely. I was simply stating that for every marriage that I have seen fail, being monogamous HAS NOT protected the commitment and relationship one bit.
> 
> Like I said, in case you missed it, we have quite a few VERY successful married people on TAM who practice ethical non-monogamy. So I know THOSE couples are having NO problems with being non-monogamous.


I did miss your point. I completely agree that being monogamous in and of itself does not protect the relationship. There are other issues that can be the source of problems. I suppose if both spouses are in full agreement about ENM it somewhat takes infidelity out of the picture for marital problems. I know there are still ways someone in a ENM relationship can commit infidelities, but it seems logical to me that they would occur less than they do in monogamous relationships.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I suppose if both spouses are in full agreement about ENM it somewhat takes infidelity out of the picture for marital problems. I know there are still ways someone in a ENM relationship can commit infidelities, but it seems logical to me that they would occur less than they do in monogamous relationships.


That would be a logical presumption. 

But relationships and sexuality etc are often not logical. Infidelity does exist in poly/swing/open marriage communities. 

Does it happen more or less than in the general vanilla population - I don't know, but it does happen. 

ENM does not prevent infidelity. But what it can do is provide a mutually agreed upon pathway to exercise the innate need for variety, novelty as well as experience a higher level of excitement and stimulation than what one other person can provide. 

For some people that is enough to keep them from getting bored and frustrated to the point of being vulnerable to attentions of someone else. 

However the same forces and situations and feelings that can lead a monogamous person into someone else's bed are still out there for nonmonogamous people as well. 

People are still people.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> No offense, but you could also be very biased because you're simply too proud/hurt/guilt ridden to admit that other people could have different relationship and sexual paradigms than you and that your way is not the only way.
> 
> Now I have never denied that our previous lifestyle could have contributed to our current state. I admit it is possible.
> 
> ...


Monogamy typically doesn’t lead to sexually transmitted diseases, abortion, or broken homes. It can, but certainly less common than non-monogamous relationships. So I’d say it does offer a few safeguards. 

Non-monogamy works especially well though if you just really enjoy strange people playing with your genitalia.. lol... not sure I’d call that authentic or natural though.. the highest state of man is he who has mastered his bodily passions I think.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> There is very little research on nonmonogamy and it would be hard to even define it for research purposes. Is a bisexual wife that gets with a girlfriend periodically with her H's knowledge and consent in the same catagory a swinging couple that has sex with other couples together? Is a polyamorous couple that have another person or couple that live with them and have sex with but they are all exclusive and committed to only the people in that household the same as a military couple that have a hall pass to do whatever they need to do to get by while one is on deployment?
> 
> When I was doing my research into swinging years and years ago before we got into it, there were some statistics floating around the swinging community that swingers has slightly less divorce rates than the general population. Slightly less.
> 
> ...


All of the senarios you quoted are non faithful marriages so it it pretty easy to define. Anyone who goes outside the legal marriage for sex is not being monogamous.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I did miss your point. I completely agree that being monogamous in and of itself does not protect the relationship. There are other issues that can be the source of problems. I suppose if both spouses are in full agreement about ENM it somewhat takes infidelity out of the picture for marital problems. I know there are still ways someone in a ENM relationship can commit infidelities, but it seems logical to me that they would occur less than they do in monogamous relationships.


Those in those lifestyles are still committing infidelity even if it's agreed on. It's still going outside the marriage for sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> the highest state of man is he who has mastered his bodily passions I think.


If by "mastered", you mean really mean deny, then we will have to disagree.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Those in those lifestyles are still committing infidelity even if it's agreed on. It's still going outside the marriage for sex.


One can quibble over the definition of the word infidelity but the point is that if it is mutually agreed upon, then it isn't cheating. At that point it is consenting adults. 

As far as going outside of the marriage, sometimes it is. sometimes it isn't. 

If it is an open marriage type arraingement where people are seeing others on the side on their own as an individual, then yes, you can call that going outside the marriage. 

In the case of swinging or even some polyamory situations where people play together as a couple, That is still within the sexual dynamics of marriage...... it just involves other people coming into the marital bed for some extra fun and excitement. 
It may be a play on semantics but if a couple invites another woman into their bed for the enjoyment of both the husband and wife and they all play together, is that really going outside the marriage, or is that bringing extra fun for each into the marriage?? It's an augment. A force multiplier. It's like bringing a sex toy into the marital bed.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Non-monogamy works especially well though if you just really enjoy strange people playing with your genitalia.. lol... not sure I’d call that authentic or natural though.. .


If lifelong monogamy were authentic and natural, then we would all be with the person we lost our virginity to and would be with them until one died. 

And then when one would die, the other would never be with another again.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Monogamy typically doesn’t lead to sexually transmitted diseases, abortion, or broken homes. It can, but certainly less common than non-monogamous relationships. So I’d say it does offer a few safeguards.
> 
> Non-monogamy works especially well though if you just really enjoy strange people playing with your genitalia.. lol... not sure I’d call that authentic or natural though.. the highest state of man is he who has mastered his bodily passions I think.


Isn't the very definition of "mastering bodily passions" the fact that you are denying what IS natural and authentic?

There absolutely are people for whom being monogamous is NOT natural or comfortable or enjoyable - for WHATEVER reason. And as long as those people are open and honest about that, and give their partners a choice about living with non-monogamy, there is NO harm...in fact, there are BENEFITS for those people.

And you made a joke about non-monogamy being about a stranger playing with a person's genitalia, but that's actually part of the appeal for some people who swing or bring other people into their sex lives - they DO enjoy expressing themselves sexually with people they don't know. For them, it adds an element of excitement and novelty that enhances the experience.

The important distinction is that for YOU, non-monogamy is negative and painful and a mistake - but for OTHERS, it's positive, enriching, and a benefit to their lives and relationship.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Along the lines of monogamy vs non-monogamy, there probably wouldn't ever be any issues if once people were married sex was always there, good and plentiful.

I believe its the "lock" that monogamy presents that allows one partner to withhold as they believe the other partner won't do anything about it due to the monogamous belief. And then they are surprised when they do.

Not saying its "right" of course but it happens.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


I haven't read all the posts, so I hope I am not repeating what others have said. 

My suggestion if for you to listen to and watch the Ester Perel TED talk on YouTube about Monogomish. She describes a way that you can safely put your "toe" (as opposed to your husband's penis) in the water of your fantasy without hopefully blowing up your marriage. In essence her advice is a combination of role playing, teasing/flirting and setting firm behavioral boundaries as you explore the comfort limits of your fantasy. I would also urge you to go slow and not invite another person into your relationship. 

Good luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> One can quibble over the definition of the word infidelity but the point is that if it is mutually agreed upon, then it isn't cheating. At that point it is consenting adults.
> 
> As far as going outside of the marriage, sometimes it is. sometimes it isn't.
> 
> ...


Anyone having sex with someone who isn't your spouse is going outside the marriage. Of course swinging is outside the marriage.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Anyone having sex with someone who isn't your spouse is going outside the marriage. Of course swinging is outside the marriage.


Everyone and every couple gets to determine the definition of marriage that works for them. And so what is "outside of marriage" really depends upon the definition of marriage.

My definition of marriage is a commitment of two people to each other, to the success of them as a family, to their respective physical and emotional happiness, to the supported growth of each and to their comfort. It involves love, respect, commitment, trust, support, sexual intimacy, and feelings of closeness and emotional bonding.

Personally, I don't think actually having sex with others is good for a marriage, but that is just me. There are lots of folks out there who are not completely faithful. In fact for centuries, the concept of a man having both a wife and a mistress have been understood and tolerated. I don't want that kind of relationship, but obviously many men and women have over vast periods of times. 

The OP and her H get to decide what each wants and what excites and completes each and what they can emotionally handle.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> Isn't the very definition of "mastering bodily passions" the fact that you are denying what IS natural and authentic?
> 
> There absolutely are people for whom being monogamous is NOT natural or comfortable or enjoyable - for WHATEVER reason. And as long as those people are open and honest about that, and give their partners a choice about living with non-monogamy, there is NO harm...in fact, there are BENEFITS for those people.
> 
> ...


What about the children that get created in a non-monogamous relationship? I guess paternity testing to figure out who the dad is? Sounds truly awful... glad I had one dad and mom in a monogamous relationship aka marriage.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> What about the children that get created in a non-monogamous relationship? I guess paternity testing to figure out who the dad is? Sounds truly awful... glad I had one dad and mom in a monogamous relationship aka marriage.


You are assuming that children can only be nurtured by their biological parents...and that's simply NOT true. And I am the perfect example!! In fact, my whole family is!

My parents had me and my sister, and then divorced when I was 1 1/2, and my mom remarried and had 4 more kids with my step-dad, and my father maintained a long-term relationship (25+ years) with a woman I considered my step-mom.

So my sister and I had a broken home, but my four other half-siblings did NOT. With the exception of ONE half-sister, the other three are an absolute MESS, with alcohol abuse, cheating, acrimonious divorces, estrangements - every dysfunctional thing you can think of. Oh...they are also church-going Baptist Christians. RIGHT.

I have often said that the BEST parts of how I relate to myself in my life and to other people came from what I learned from my step-parents, because my biological parents are emotionally stunted and narcissistic. I shutter to think of how poorly I would have managed my life without the guidance and example of my NON-biological parents.

So in MY life, and in MY situation, my parents having other partners is what benefited me the most, because it brought OTHER parental/adult figures into my life who had much more to offer me emotionally and physically than my "real" parents ever did.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> You are assuming that children can only be nurtured by their biological parents...and that's simply NOT true. And I am the perfect example!! In fact, my whole family is!
> 
> My parents had me and my sister, and then divorced when I was 1 1/2, and my mom remarried and had 4 more kids with my step-dad, and my father maintained a long-term relationship (25+ years) with a woman I considered my step-mom.
> 
> ...


I could make the same argument about myself for marriage. My parents remained married until death and I am a college educated, happily married, Christian father of ten.

The fact is though kids are more likely to succeed and be happy if they are raised as part of a monogamous family. I think this is evident by the huge increase in mood altering pharmaceuticals being prescribed today.

Im not sure divorce situations are an argument for non-monogamous relationships anyway. Non-monogamous means sleeping with multiple people. You’re getting WAY off topic with your lengthy description of your family divorce and anti-baptist rant.

Are you in a non-monogamous relationship with children?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I could make the same argument about myself for marriage. My parents remained married until death and I am a college educated, happily married, Christian father of ten.
> 
> The fact is though kids are more likely to succeed and be happy if they are raised as part of a monogamous family. I think this is evident by the huge increase in mood altering pharmaceuticals being prescribed today.
> 
> ...


No I'm NOT...I am not invested enough in disagreeing with you to ever "rant" about it to you...Lol!!

And if you think THAT description was "lengthy", you haven't read any of my other posts about my family!! Lol! Nor was it "anti-Baptist"...the assumptions you made in your reply make me wonder if you are even hearing what I'm trying to convey, or if you just immediately default to disregarding MY experience and opinion because it doesn't agree with YOURS.

What I was doing was distilling the topic down to the PRINCIPLE that you disagree with - or what I was assuming the principle was, maybe I'm mistaken - that having other adults around as parental figures is detrimental to children as they grow.

You are WRONG that it's "a fact" that kids are more likely to succeed and be happy if they are part of a monogamous family, if that family is dysfunctional and unloving...or if the parents in it are miserable and hateful to eachother...or for any number of other reasons.

I have said before when this issue is brought up about non-monogamy that I believe having MORE loving adults around to care for children is only GOOD for them. I have just given you a perfect example of what has shaped my belief, but you dismissed it instead of even considering that I might have something to contribute to your understanding.

And you are absolutely correct that YOUR experience with your parents is a great example for YOU of why monogamy and staying married forever to the same person is what's best for families...but the difference is that I am able to agree with your point, while you are unable to agree with MINE (even though MY experience is real and just as valid as yours). That detracts from your credibility in my eyes when you argue a point with me - if you cannot be equitable when considering my side and my views that I am sharing with you, I will not be able to think of your counter points as anything but biased.

I also believe you are reaching by saying that the large amount of mood altering prescriptions today are caused by non-monogamy - I could list several OTHER reasons that I believe there has been such an increase. 

If you want to know if children in non-monogamous families are happy and successful, why don't you look at the members who practice ENM right here on TAM for your answer -- because I believe it would be an overwhelming YES.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

LisaDiane said:


> No I'm NOT...I am not invested enough in disagreeing with you to ever "rant" about it to you...Lol!!
> 
> And if you think THAT description was "lengthy", you haven't read any of my other posts about my family!! Lol! Nor was it "anti-Baptist"...the assumptions you made in your reply make me wonder if you are even hearing what I'm trying to convey, or if you just immediately default to disregarding MY experience and opinion because it doesn't agree with YOURS.
> 
> ...


I’d call it a rant since you’re way off topic, continuing to throw out CAPS for emphasis, and writing 6 paragraphs plus per response. Yeah, I’m not reading your stupid s**t.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> Non-monogamy works especially well though if you just really enjoy strange people playing with your genitalia.. lol... not sure I’d call that authentic or natural though.. the highest state of man is he who has mastered his bodily passions I think.


This is stereotyping. A large number of people within the ENM community are in 2+ person closed relationships. They are no more about "strange people playing with your genitalia" than a monogamous couple. Remember at one point even your SO was that strange person, when they first did sexual activities with you. And if you want to claim that you knew them well enough prior, the same applies to many ENM people as well. This doesn't mean that there are not people who are quite happy to have strange people play with their parts. Of course there are. But if you want to play stereotyping games, we can equate all Christians to WBC. The comparison is just as valid.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I think the one drawback of assuming monogamy and non-divorce parents being the best and happiest is not every divorce is always wanted by both parts of the couple. So if one spouse bails out and leaves the other behind, does that doom the parenthood and children forever to being failures?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

looks like we scared the OP away! 

if her and her husband decide they want to try this, why not? she is certainly now informed about the potential risks. but having a boring sex life in itself is a big risk to a marriage. if they want to do it, go for it. maybe the OP has a single friend who she can invite over, someone she sort of trusts


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> looks like we scared the OP away!
> 
> if her and her husband decide they want to try this, why not? she is certainly now informed about the potential risks. but having a boring sex life in itself is a big risk to a marriage. if they want to do it, go for it. maybe the OP has a single friend who she can invite over, someone she sort of trusts


I agree. A boring or non-existant sex life can be just as much a marriage killer as anything else.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> The fact is though kids are more likely to succeed and be happy if they are raised as part of a monogamous family.


Kids are more likely to be successful if they have stable, loving, supporting adults in their lives nurturing and guiding them.

I’m not sure what those adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom matters much to the kids.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> The fact is though kids are more likely to succeed and be happy if they are raised as part of a monogamous family.


Is monogamy really a pertinent variable in the success of children though?? 

So alcoholic, abusive, neglectful and irresponsible parents can raise successful and happy children as long as they are monogamous? 

And responsible, sane, sober, loving and supportive parents will raise troubled children because they may not be completely monogamous behind closed doors in their private life?? 

I didn’t know monogamy had that much power.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think the one drawback of assuming monogamy and non-divorce parents being the best and happiest is not every divorce is always wanted by both parts of the couple. So if one spouse bails out and leaves the other behind, does that doom the parenthood and children forever to being failures?


It makes it much much harder for the one left.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Is monogamy really a pertinent variable in the success of children though??
> 
> So alcoholic, abusive, neglectful and irresponsible parents can raise successful and happy children as long as they are monogamous?
> 
> ...


The more your love life is a “revolving door” the more likely you’ll procreate children with the “wrong” person and resulting children’s lives will be a disaster.

I’m sure all the sex obsessed swingers are glad to raise other people’s kids... lol. Not likely... too busy seeking out their next fling.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> The more your love life is a “revolving door” the more likely you’ll procreate children with the “wrong” person and resulting children’s lives will be a disaster.
> 
> I’m sure all the sex obsessed swingers are glad to raise other people’s kids... lol. Not likely... too busy seeking out their next fling.


I think thats a pretty bad generlaization Catholic Dad. The few swingers I know are all 50+ and the kids are long out of the house. And they all only start swinging after the kids left.


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## foobar (May 6, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Video yourself and husband together and see if that works to deal with your somewhat dangerous idea?
> 
> Counselling might help.


Oh havens no video. OP: You are in your 40's perhaps? Not unless you are in "Porn Star" shape or just close up video. Otherwise you might be very disappointed in the result. People most always think they look good on camera until they see them selves.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Is monogamy really a pertinent variable in the success of children though??
> 
> So alcoholic, abusive, neglectful and irresponsible parents can raise successful and happy children as long as they are monogamous?
> 
> ...


Come on man, that’s amateur, and you’re way smarter than that. 
It’s not a drunk, bad, monogamous vs. angelic, healthy single/non-monogamous argument.
The point is that -all other things being equal - a monogamous, two-parent household is by far the most effective environment for raising healthy children. Not a psychologist, but as I understand the studies/literature/consensus - it’s not even disputable.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think thats a pretty bad generlaization Catholic Dad. The few swingers I know are all 50+ and the kids are long out of the house. And they all only start swinging after the kids left.


I just read on another thread that sex is the “glue” that keeps marriage together and I agree. Men and women are just so different! If you’re having sex with others than that glue is more trying to pull you apart than stick you together.

of course all we do on here is generalize... ain’t it? I’m sure @oldshirt has like five kids and they’re all surgeons, lawyers, and such!

But still in general, one man one woman is the Godly option... sorry, but it just IS.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> Come on man, that’s amateur, and you’re way smarter than that.
> It’s not a drunk, bad, monogamous vs. angelic, healthy single/non-monogamous argument.
> The point is that -all other things being equal - a monogamous, two-parent household is by far the most effective environment for raising healthy children. Not a psychologist, but as I understand the studies/literature/consensus - it’s not even disputable.


It is disputable because things are never equal. 

If you make monogamy vs nonmonogamy the variable, then how much impact can the monogamy/nonmonogamy really have?

The argument being made wasn’t two-parent home vs nontwo-parent home.

The argument being made by catholic dad was that monogamy was the key to success and happiness in children. 

So again, is monogamy an actual variable in the success of children? Is what goes on in private behind closed doors with consenting actually going to impact the children’s well being?

I hope YOU are smarter than to think if two loving, supportive, sane, sober parents have some kind of discrete, private interaction with other consenting adults that the children will likely never know about, that their private sexual activities behind closed doors should impact the children.

To make a blanket statement that parents who are nonmonogamous are bad parents and that their children will somehow be negatively impacted by their private sex life is pure judgementalism. 

I thought we as a society had gotten beyond this level of sexual judgmentalism when gay/lesbian couples were no longer barred from fostering/adopting children decades ago. 

Now are we going to step backwards and say that consensual nonmonogamy in heterosexual couples are bad parents due to what they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. 

Again - does monogamy in and of itself have that much impact on child development?? 

Or are people just being judgmental jerks because consenting adults do some things in the privacy of their own bedroom that they don’t like?


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> It is disputable because things are never equal.
> 
> If you make monogamy vs nonmonogamy the variable, then how much impact can the monogamy/nonmonogamy really have?
> 
> ...


I don’t think anyone said non-monogamous parents are bad people or necessarily bad parents. What they are doing is adding additional potential for drama and instability into the marriages- and hence the family.

Let’s focus on reality and not idealistic visions of how things “should” be. And the reality is that the vast majority of marriages can’t handle non-monogamy (even the ones that think they can) - and everyone knows this.

So it is plausible - if not probable, that non-monogamous couples have a additional propensities for added drama, instability and disfunction. They have additional potential points of failure that most people can’t handle.

So yes, as a general rule, children are most effectively raised in a stable, married, monogamous family. That is ideal. Period.
Again, that doesn’t mean that non-monogamous people are bad or bad parents, just that there’s more complexity/points of failure and higher likelihood of instability.

And we all make judgments about what we believe is good or right or ideal, or less ideal, or problematic, etc. And that’s OK, as long as we treat each other with civility and decency.
I don’t respect non-monogamy in marriage, and I won’t pretend to. But I do respect everyone’s right to live however they see fit.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I just read on another thread that sex is the “glue” that keeps marriage together and I agree. Men and women are just so different! If you’re having sex with others than that glue is more trying to pull you apart than stick you together.
> 
> of course all we do on here is generalize... ain’t it? I’m sure @oldshirt has like five kids and they’re all surgeons, lawyers, and such!
> 
> But still in general, one man one woman is the Godly option... sorry, but it just IS.


But what if you don't believe in God? And can it not be two men or two women and still be a marriage?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But what if you don't believe in God? And can it not be two men or two women and still be a marriage?


Some think it can, God says no, marriage is for male and female who can have children.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> But what if you don't believe in God? And can it not be two men or two women and still be a marriage?


You could still have a monogamous same sex marriage. I thought it was being argued that monogamous was what was import and brought stability, no?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You could still have a monogamous same sex marriage. I thought it was being argued that monogamous was what was import and brought stability, no?


I guess murderers and drug dealers and child abusers and bank robbers etc are ok as long as they are monogamous.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I guess murderers and drug dealers and child abusers and bank robbers etc are ok as long as they are monogamous.


Come on now you know that's not what is being said.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Come on now you know that's not what is being said.


What is being said is that monogamy is a trait of ‘good’ people and that it is part and parcel of the ideal framework and that any deviation of that will be detrimental.

And that nonmonogamy is a trait of ‘bad’ and that since it is a deviation from what you consider proper, that it will lead to bad outcome.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> What is being said is that monogamy is a trait of ‘good’ people and that it is part and parcel of the ideal framework and that any deviation of that will be detrimental.
> 
> And that nonmonogamy is a trait of ‘bad’ and that since it is a deviation from what you consider proper, that it will lead to bad outcome.


Chldren need stability, parents who sleep around are not providing a good example or stability.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Chldren need stability, parents who sleep around are not providing a good example or stability.


And this is evidenced by the 50-60% divorce rate in the presumptive monogamous community?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Some think it can, God says no, marriage is for male and female who can have children.


What about those that don’t want children or can’t have children?


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> The more your love life is a “revolving door” the more likely you’ll procreate children with the “wrong” person and resulting children’s lives will be a disaster.
> 
> I’m sure all the sex obsessed swingers are glad to raise other people’s kids... lol. Not likely... too busy seeking out their next fling.


Not all, or even a majority of ENM are doing the "revolving door", at least as you seem to envision it. You might be surprised at the number of closed poly relationships. And most experienced swingers/open people are well practiced at preventing pregnancy in the first place. Unless you can bring data to bear to show otherwise, swingers simply aren't having kids from outside the marriage in any great numbers.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

foobar said:


> Oh havens no video. OP: You are in your 40's perhaps? Not unless you are in "Porn Star" shape or just close up video. Otherwise you might be very disappointed in the result. People most always think they look good on camera until they see them selves.


Actually given the number of number of body type fetishes out there, pretty much anyone can get a following.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> Come on man, that’s amateur, and you’re way smarter than that.
> It’s not a drunk, bad, monogamous vs. angelic, healthy single/non-monogamous argument.
> The point is that -all other things being equal - a monogamous, two-parent household is by far the most effective environment for raising healthy children. Not a psychologist, but as I understand the studies/literature/consensus - it’s not even disputable.


Except that there are not a lot of studies on polyamourous families with children that didn't only look at troubled subsets such as the FLDS. But they are out there.









Children in Polyamorous Families' Age-Dependent Experiences


First in a series of blogs on children in polyamorous families.




www.psychologytoday.com












Advantages & Disadvantages for Kids in Polyamorous Families


Second in a series on kids in polyamorous families




www.psychologytoday.com












Polyamorous parenting: The surprising benefits of the ultimate modern family


A growing number of Canadian parents are polyamorous. Experts, parents and even kids say it offers some surprising benefits.




www.todaysparent.com












(PDF) Children in Polyamorous Families: A First Empirical Look


PDF | On Jan 1, 2013, Elisabeth Sheff published Children in Polyamorous Families: A First Empirical Look | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate




www.researchgate.net





That last one is from as far back as 2013. I am sure that there is more out there, but the study is still relatively small.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I just read on another thread that sex is the “glue” that keeps marriage together and I agree. Men and women are just so different! If you’re having sex with others than that glue is more trying to pull you apart than stick you together.
> 
> of course all we do on here is generalize... ain’t it? I’m sure @oldshirt has like five kids and they’re all surgeons, lawyers, and such!
> 
> But still in general, one man one woman is the Godly option... sorry, but it just IS.


Glue can also hold more than two things together and multiple items can be put together to make a working whole greater than the sum of the parts.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Some think it can, God says no, marriage is for male and female *who can have children*.


So if either of them can't have children, say the woman has no uterus, then marriage isn't for her?


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Chldren need stability, parents who sleep around are not providing a good example or stability.


That is making an assumption that all ENM is sleeping around and not closed relationships of 3+ people. You're stereotyping again.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

maquiscat said:


> That is making an assumption that all ENM is sleeping around and not closed relationships of 3+ people. You're stereotyping again.


Monogamy is often viewed by the religious/traditional crowd as all or nothing. 

Either you are righteous and die 60 years later with only being with one person, or you are a sinner and deviant and evil doer if you have sex with someone else, even if it was completely consensual by all parties involved and even if there was no bad outcome and a good time was had by all. 

So your assertion that some poly triads or quads or whatever that may be stable, committed, long term loving, stable households mean nothing. It is a deviation from their heteronormative standard so there for it is bad.

I’ve personally known couples in the swinging lifestyle that in 20 year marriages may have had a couple 3somes and maybe entertained another couple here and there. But again, out of 20-30 years of productive marriage, if they had a few consensual experiences over a 30 year period - they are heathens and sinners and ripe for disaster. 

In my case we had a completely traditional, monogamous marriage for 10 years. Then took a few years slowly dipping our toes into the swinging waters, then had several years of being very active in that lifestyle, then over time transitioned back out of it and have had a traditional marriage for the last 5-6 years. 

So out of our 25 year marriage, at least 15 have been traditional. 

But will we ever be recognized as a “normal” couple with normal marital issues and normal family matters and normal life challenges?? ?? 

I’m betting not. I’m betting we will be seen as deviants and that whatever problems we do have will be directly related to our past lifestyle in their eyes.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Chldren need stability, parents who sleep around are not providing a good example or stability.


Says who? You and Catholic dad? 

You’re assumption that people who are consensually nonmonogamous are “sleeping around” and thus not providing stability or appropriate example is pure judgementalism and simple mindedness on your part. 

If one wishes to be monogamous and you believe that is the best way for you to raise a family, that is fine and that is your perogative as a consenting adult. 

But your knee-jerk assumption that anything that deviates from your preferred paradigm is bad and deleterious to children only spotlights your own bigotry and prejudice.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> And this is evidenced by the 50-60% divorce rate in the presumptive monogamous community?


It's 40 % here, no stats to say how many were monogamous and how many weren't.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Says who? You and Catholic dad?
> 
> You’re assumption that people who are consensually nonmonogamous are “sleeping around” and thus not providing stability or appropriate example is pure judgementalism and simple mindedness on your part.
> 
> ...


Says the Creator.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

It ain't judgmental.


maquiscat said:


> Not all, or even a majority of ENM are doing the "revolving door", at least as you seem to envision it. You might be surprised at the number of closed poly relationships. And most experienced swingers/open people are well practiced at preventing pregnancy in the first place. Unless you can bring data to bear to show otherwise, swingers simply aren't having kids from outside the marriage in any great numbers.


Any science class or birth control package label will say they aren’t 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So unwanted pregnancies most certainly do happen. Sadly, that is why the holocaust on the unborn continues. About 125,000 babies will be aborted today. Sure some could be from husband/wife relationships but undoubtedly most aren’t. So, there is a cost from unrestrained sexual relations... it is paid for by the suffering of unborn babies. I think people should only have sex with someone they would be glad to procreate and raise children with.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> I think people should only have sex with someone they would be glad to procreate and raise children with.


Then I would still be a Virgin at 57.

Sorry, ain’t hapn’n Bro.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Monogamy is often viewed by the religious/traditional crowd as all or nothing.
> 
> Either you are righteous and die 60 years later with only being with one person, or you are a sinner and deviant and evil doer if you have sex with someone else, even if it was completely consensual by all parties involved and even if there was no bad outcome and a good time was had by all.
> 
> ...


NOt only that, but your marriage is doomed. DOOMED I tell you! It will never last!


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Says the Creator.


Yeah, She doesn't agree with your interpertation.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> It ain't judgmental.
> 
> Any science class or birth control package label will say they aren’t 100% effective at preventing pregnancy. So unwanted pregnancies most certainly do happen. Sadly, that is why the holocaust on the unborn continues. About 125,000 babies will be aborted today. *Sure some could be from husband/wife relationships but undoubtedly most aren’t.* So, there is a cost from unrestrained sexual relations... it is paid for by the suffering of unborn babies. I think people should only have sex with someone they would be glad to procreate and raise children with.


You are welcomed to try to back that up. Keep in mind that what we are talking about is not the same as simple single parenthood. A closed poly relationship is no different risk wise of STI or pregnancy than a closed monogamous one. And as I noted, swingers are good at minimizing the risk, save maybe the newbies who don't do their homework. Do you have anything to show, outside of assumptions, that swingers actually do have a higher rate of children outside the actual couple or a higher rate of abortion?

Although I agree on one point. Do not have sex with someone whom you are not willing to co-parent with.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I guess murderers and drug dealers and child abusers and bank robbers etc are ok as long as they are monogamous.


I actually said that with a bit of sarcasm honestly. The argument was being made for a while that a monogamous relationship was best for raising kids. Then somewhere it changed to marriage, and specially heterosexual marriage. Seemed like moving goal posts to me. 

That said, I do personally feel like a monogamous heterosexual marriage should give the best chance for a good childhood. You take a few potential issues out of the mix. However, I don't get to decide what is best for other people. That is their choice.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

maquiscat said:


> Yeah, She doesn't agree with your interpertation.


I would be hapy to hear what interpretation that says we as Christians can committ adultery. He sees it as so serious that people were put to death for committing it at one time. If you arent a Christian you are free to choose how you live.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I would be hapy to hear what interpretation that says we as Christians can committ adultery. He sees it as so serious that people were put to death for committing it at one time. If you arent a Christian you are free to choose how you live.


Who sees it as so serious that people were put to death?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Who sees it as so serious that people were put to death?


God.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Who sees it as so serious that people were put to death?


Old testament, adultery was punished by death. Still happens sometimes in certain cultures.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Old testament, adultery was punished by death. Still happens sometimes in certain cultures.


You a proponent of the notion?


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Old testament, adultery was punished by death.





Torninhalf said:


> You a proponent of the notion?


Adultery sucks and we may wish the cheater would die, but no death. I don't believe in death penalty whatsoever.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> God.


I'm glad God is alot more forgiving now then He was back then.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I'm glad God is alot more forgiving now then He was back then.


He still sees sin as serious. We tend to just excuse it more these days.


----------



## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> I would be hapy to hear what interpretation that says we as Christians can committ adultery. He sees it as so serious that people were put to death for committing it at one time. If you arent a Christian you are free to choose how you live.


Have you read what people were put to death for in Leviticus? All of the sins that Christians today wantonly commit? But aside from the fact that polygamy is still a marriage so all sex there is within marriage, he also approved the use of surrogates such as Abraham's use of Sarah's handmaiden. If adultery was so bad as one needed to be put to death for it, why wasn't Abraham put to death, or Solomon with his concubines above and beyond his wives? That is before we look at the fact that your principles and religion no more apply to others as does theirs do to you.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

maquiscat said:


> Have you read what people were put to death for in Leviticus? All of the sins that Christians today wantonly commit? But aside from the fact that polygamy is still a marriage so all sex there is within marriage, he also approved the use of surrogates such as Abraham's use of Sarah's handmaiden. If adultery was so bad as one needed to be put to death for it, why wasn't Abraham put to death, or Solomon with his concubines above and beyond his wives? That is before we look at the fact that your principles and religion no more apply to others as does theirs do to you.


The teaching for Gentile Christians is in the NT. Marriage is for one man and one woman and sex to be between them only.

I always say that if you aren't a Christian you are free to choose how you live. God never forces us to do anything, but there are consequences for whatever we choose.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Then I would still be a Virgin at 57.
> 
> Sorry, ain’t hapn’n Bro.


Wonder how many abortions you may have caused... ever thought about that?

If you’ve had sex with hundreds of ladies... I’d say there are decent odds.

maybe you don’t care..


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

LisaDiane said:


> Isn't the very definition of "mastering bodily passions" the fact that you are denying what IS natural and authentic?
> 
> There absolutely are people for whom being monogamous is NOT natural or comfortable or enjoyable - for WHATEVER reason. And as long as those people are open and honest about that, and give their partners a choice about living with non-monogamy, there is NO harm...in fact, there are BENEFITS for those people.
> 
> ...


Someone is now '_out of the closet!_'


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Wonder how many abortions you may have caused... ever thought about that?
> 
> If you’ve had sex with hundreds of ladies... I’d say there are decent odds.
> 
> maybe you don’t care..


No abortions because some of us are actually responsible about our reproductivity and use safe, effective and readily available contraception rather than crapping out kid after kid because some senile old man who has never had sex (at least not with a consenting adult) said not to use it 100 years ago for no legitimate reason.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> some senile old man who has never had sex (at least not with a consenting adult) said not to use it 100 years ago for no legitimate reason.


@CatholicDad I also find it ironic that someone who calls himself a “Dad” supports and pays into an organization that looked the other way when when children were being taken away from their homes and families and stuffed into boxcars, marched into gas chambers and burned en mass in crematoriums and then hid the ringleaders and helped them escape justice. 

And then I find it ironic that you preach sexual morality and point fingers when the organization you support and give money to every week is sheltering pedophiles and covering up their crimes. 

Anyone else find it convenient that these old men that molest children stand up on the pulpit and tell adults not to use birth control every Sunday ?


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d call it a rant since you’re way off topic, continuing to throw out CAPS for emphasis, and writing 6 paragraphs plus per response. *Yeah, I’m not reading your stupid s**t.*


Your response is childish, profane and disrespectful, and it revealed much more about your own character than it accurately described anything about me.

As I suspected, there is nothing of substance to analyze in your opinion -- "because you're stupid!!" is not a valid argument if you want to be taken seriously.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

What the hell happened to the thread? Lol


----------



## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

SunCMars said:


> Someone is now '_out of the closet!_'


Lol!!! Do you mean you think I am not monogamous??

My sexual desire has always been monogamous - meaning, I am really only interested in having sex with one man at a time, because I have never had my desire "split", it's always intensely focused on ONE guy at a time.

However, my feelings don't come from any sense of morality, and I'm NOT arrogant or prideful enough to think that MY way is "the only way" that's right or good. It's what makes ME happy...and I'm fine with other people doing anything that is right for THEM. In fact, I celebrate that!!!


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

RandomDude said:


> What the hell happened to the thread? Lol


It has one of the best examples of "thread drift" I have seen in quite some time.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> It has one of the best examples of "thread drift" I have seen in quite some time.


Lol yeah I was about to post a meme but that would make it even worse


----------



## Mickey77 (Jul 28, 2021)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


That is a huge fantasy of mine too! I picture him f**** an extremely hot chick from behind while she's eating me out. I don't think I could every do it but the fantasy is always there and it turns me on so much. Or her giving him oral while I masturbate.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I'm glad God is alot more forgiving now then He was back then.


Unless one dies in their sin. Die in wreck leaving APs house or they are killed in the act...they are screwed. There is no repentance.


----------



## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

maquiscat said:


> Have you read what people were put to death for in Leviticus? All of the sins that Christians today wantonly commit? But aside from the fact that polygamy is still a marriage so all sex there is within marriage, he also approved the use of surrogates such as Abraham's use of Sarah's handmaiden. If adultery was so bad as one needed to be put to death for it, why wasn't Abraham put to death, or Solomon with his concubines above and beyond his wives? That is before we look at the fact that your principles and religion no more apply to others as does theirs do to you.


He did not approve of what Abraham did. Sarah approved of it until she got jealous.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sure. 
Get a wig, and dress differently from normal. Role play being someone else - heck you can even agree to meet him at a bar have have him "pick you up". Have him take you home and have a wild ONS, do things you don't normally do - and and video it. (let him know of course). After, you will have a video of him having sex with what looks like a different and attractive woman. 

Nothing wrong with fantasies if they don't hurt anyone. 

Of course if you _really_ want to watch him, you can talk to him about it, but pretending to be the other woman is a lot lest risky in a whole lot of dimensions.




Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Mickey77 said:


> That is a huge fantasy of mine too! I picture him f**** an extremely hot chick from behind while she's eating me out. I don't think I could every do it but the fantasy is always there and it turns me on so much. Or her giving him oral while I masturbate.


Wow. People have really lost their filters eh?


----------



## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Wow. People have really lost their filters eh?


It's called Hedonism"" if you study history and map the rise and fall of civilisations around the world you will see how strong morally these people were, and due to their hard work and sense of being they rose and become a very strong civilization. Later becoming an empire for some of these civilizations. Then, you can chart as they became more, and more economically strong their life went soft, their morality faltered, and then they became nothing but a culture of degenerates in an environment of free for all as far as sexual proclivities and adverrations, until they became so soft that others have to do the work for them. That's the end for almost all of those empires. They were taken over by stronger others. You see it now; see what's left of the Spanish, french, British empires. What's becoming of the USA after the generation of WW II. Is all there for all of us too, but to lazy, and to blind to see.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Rob_1 said:


> It's called Hedonism"" if you study history and map the rise and fall of civilisations around the world you will see how strong morally these people were, and due to their hard work and sense of being they rose and become a very strong civilization. Later becoming an empire for some of these civilizations. Then, you can chart as they became more, and more economically strong their life went soft, their morality faltered, and then they became nothing but a culture of degenerates in an environment of free for all as far as sexual proclivities and adverrations, until they became so soft that others have to do the work for them. That's the end for almost all of those empires. They were taken over by stronger others. You see it now; see what's left of the Spanish, french, British empires. What's becoming of the USA after the generation of WW II. Is all there for all of us too, but to lazy, and to blind to see.


I call it oversharing. 😂


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I call it oversharing. 😂


Can you really "overshare" sexually? My guess is No. 

Woman can share sex with me wherever they like.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Can you really "overshare" sexually? My guess is No.
> 
> Woman can share sex with me wherever they like.


Maybe I should have said sometimes ones private thoughts should not be shared out loud. 😂


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe I should have said sometimes ones private thoughts should not be shared out loud. 😂


Oh you mean "TMI!... TMI!" People yell that at me all the time


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Oh you mean "TMI!... TMI!" People yell that at me all the time


It’s happened to me once or twice. 😂


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Oh you mean "TMI!... TMI!" People yell that at me all the time


Where's a facepalm emoji when you need it?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe I should have said sometimes ones private thoughts should not be shared out loud.


Maybe save them for an anonymous forum  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Adultery sucks and we may wish the cheater would die, but no death. I don't believe in death penalty whatsoever.


having sex outside of the marriage, with the full knowledge of the two married people, is not adultery.

you can argue if it is wise or dangerous, but thinking in victorian times sexual ways is simply outdated today


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Talker67 said:


> having sex outside of the marriage, with the full knowledge of the two married people, is not adultery.
> 
> you can argue if it is wise or dangerous, but thinking in victorian times sexual ways is simply outdated today


Technically, it IS adultery (by definition), but not infidelity or cheating.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> having sex outside of the marriage, with the full knowledge of the two married people, is not adultery.
> 
> you can argue if it is wise or dangerous, but thinking in victorian times sexual ways is simply outdated today


Actually it is the very definition of adultery. The definition does not account for the knowledge or lack thereof by the spouses involved. As to whether adultery is positive, negative or neutral, is a subjective matter.

Now the issue of knowledge does determine whether or not it is cheating.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

alright, i concede it is a fine point. It IS adultery, but not cheating, if the spouse gives permission.

i wonder, percentage wise, how many women have this fantasy (hooking their husband up with another women). And how many actually go thru with it, as opposed to only fantasizing about it.

And the same for husbands, how many have this fantasy for their wives.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Talker67 said:


> alright, i concede it is a fine point. It IS adultery, but not cheating, if the spouse gives permission.
> 
> i wonder, percentage wise, how many women have this fantasy (hooking their husband up with another women). And how many actually go thru with it, as opposed to only fantasizing about it.
> 
> And the same for husbands, how many have this fantasy for their wives.


For women I am thinking its around .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent. 

I did know one guy years ago whose wife setup a threesome with a woman she worked with but that was so they could BOTH play with the woman. not just the guy.as his wife was bi. But he did get to be part of numerous sessions together so it was good for him. That ONE LONE occurence is why my perceived percentage is so low.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> For women I am thinking its around .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.
> 
> I did know one guy years ago whose wife setup a threesome with a woman she worked with but that was so they could BOTH play with the woman. not just the guy.as his wife was bi. But he did get to be part of numerous sessions together so it was good for him. That ONE LONE occurence is why my perceived percentage is so low.


you may be right. 
but it is really hard to get truthful statistics on such things!


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## [email protected]@@ (Aug 2, 2021)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


It is a super exciting kind of game and it work so well in spicing up the sex life but my wife and i would come up with all kinds of situations to talk about.like fantasizing out load to each other.we did get a bit out of hand in comming up with new ideas and stories and almost spilled over into real stuff so be carefull


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> For women I am thinking its around .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.
> 
> I did know one guy years ago whose wife setup a threesome with a woman she worked with but that was so they could BOTH play with the woman. not just the guy.as his wife was bi. But he did get to be part of numerous sessions together so it was good for him. That ONE LONE occurence is why my perceived percentage is so low.


Not as uncommon as you might think. There is a lot out there about it.



sexual fantasy husband with another woman - Google Search



But aside from this there are plenty of women within the ENM community who are willing to let their husbands sleep with other women and usually feel happy for them, even if it is not part of a sexual fantasy for them.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

maquiscat said:


> Not as uncommon as you might think. There is a lot out there about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maquis,

Yeah I know...just exageratting for effect. I had some friends in the past who were poly and often talked about what they did. I still think its pretty low among most people you talk to. 

Too bad my wife doesn't feel this way


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## TonyM (Jan 5, 2021)

Beth2548 said:


> Hi. My husband and I have been married 18 years now. Our marriage is great but I feel the sex is getting a little routine and boring which is probably normal. Were working on ways to spice it up but my biggest fantasy is to think about him having sex with another woman, especially an attractive woman. Not that I would actually want it to happen, it just turns me on to think about it. I looked into dolls but they're too expensive. Am I really weird and is there anything out there to satisfy this fantasy because it's starting to drive me crazy.


 From what I've read and understand, this is a far greater fantasy for men than women. I am guilty of having this fantasy of seeing my wife with another man. Through sex talk and fantasy talk, she has also expressed seeing me with another woman. The majority of it is just that...fantasy talk. I rarely find myself thinking of this outside of sex so for us, it's the "in the heat of the moment" type talk. Going through with it is not a decision to take lightly. It can go so many ways from destroying a relationship to creating a fun new outlet to explore and do as a couple or even individual. It can be a great turn on during sex but be wary of going through with it of you're not prepared to deal with the possible consequences. Best wishes in whichever route you ultimately decide.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The idea of my wife with another man makes me feel ill.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> For women I am thinking its around .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 percent.
> 
> I did know one guy years ago whose wife setup a threesome with a woman she worked with but that was so they could BOTH play with the woman. not just the guy.as his wife was bi. But he did get to be part of numerous sessions together so it was good for him. That ONE LONE occurence is why my perceived percentage is so low.


Make that 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002% then because it was my wife’s biggest fantasy. 
(And yes we did do it 😉)

Realistically though, compared to all other fantasies out there, it’s probably no less than any other fantasy. 

I would venture that compared to all other fantasy scenarios, it’s probably well towards the common end of the spectrum. 

It may even be quite common. People just deny it publicly.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

The idea of my husband with another woman makes me ill. When I have dreams (which are not something you can control) and there is another man, before there is actual sex, it changes to my husband. Every time.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zombie Cat says "No. This is a zombie thread."


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