# Punishing my 15 year old daughter?



## Rugs

I have a super 15 year old daughter. She is very smart, organized, and wise beyond her years. No drugs...

She is in a "smart school" for lack of a better term that she had to test into to get in. A student....And she will do what I ask of her without pushback. 

Now, she is 15 so she does give off some attitude. I straighten her out verbally when she needs it and it usually works. 

Basically, because she is mature, helpful, driven, she gets tons of PRIVLAGES. 

She is aware of the deal. I make her life easy as long as I can trust her and she is respectful.

So I caught her in a harmless lie the other week and I was pissed but I let it go with just a stern look.

Then she lied to me about wearing her braces rubber bands. 

Today she said she had taken her eye drops that were prescribed for her. She said she did but she could not have because they were in my purse. 

Now I am mad and punishment will be strong. 

No ski club for a month
No iPhone for a month
No IPAD for a month
No driving for a month (she has her learners permit)
No friends for a month
No weekly youth group with her church for a month. (Her life blood)
She has a trip in April for school I just paid $600.00 for and I am thinking about canceling her trip and deying that PRIVlage too. 

Also, the moth is not concrete. These PRIVLAGES will have to be earned back. 

I don't want her to be sitting around moping and hating me, I would like some sort of work penance too.

I have things around the house in good shape but I want her to have to babysit for free or walk old lady's dogs, or help out somewhere. 
She has a chronic infection so I can't have her around a lot of people. 

Any suggestions?

My daughter gets the moon every day. This needs to sober her to what her actions have cost her.


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## Holland

I think the punishment should fit the crime and in this case the punishment is way OTT. 

You say she is a generally a good kid, doing well at school etc. Why the need then for such an extreme set of punishments? She sounds like a stock standard 15 year old, by being so unreasonable with her you run the risk of her rebelling. Your expectations of her seem to be at a very unrealistic and high level, good luck with that.


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## the guy

The rubber bands are there for a reason.

The eye drops are there for a reason!

Both of which are for her benifit...take them a way and when she wants them back...well then!

Your kid sounds smart... so when her jaw or her eyes start messing with her at church, she better start praying! Maybe when she eats it on her run and she has a face full of snow, she may want to keep her jaw and eye's in shape so she can concintraite.

All's I'm saying is ...unless she and her pimp are planing an out of state trip or she is strapping a kelo of dope around her thightes to cross the border, you might want to reconsider taking away her activities that keep her grounded......

As far as the electronics .....ya take that sh1t away for a while...God only knows what she is planning. 

At the end of the day she needs her church, she needs to practice driving and she needs her activities to stay out of trouble. Figure out her wants versus her needs and then establish her punishment.

Granted you do have a valid point if her eye drops directly relate to her ablity to drive...but then again that will all come together when she eats it on the slopes.


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## the guy

Have you tried water boarding?


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## unbelievable

The problem with lying is that people can't trust you. That could be very inconvenient for a 15 year old who frequently wants permission from her mother to have a mom who can't trust her. Your punishment seems over-the-top and unrelated to the offense. The Youth group would seem to be a behavior you'd wish to encourage. I might take the Ipad or the phone but I'd keep her in the youth group.

She's old enough to understand the link between privileges and trust. She's also old enough to understand the ill consequences of failing to follow her medical instructions. i think I'd pick one punishment (maybe a confiscated Ipad) and tell her she'll report to me at X time every day with eyedrops and rubber bands so I know she's tending to those items. If she faithfully shows up for 10 days as directed, she'd get her Ipad back. Since she's in a church youth group, she's familiar with some religious instruction. I'd probably also have her do some research and write me a little essay about lying, complete with about 10 verses from scripture on the subject. 
While we were going through this 10 day period, I'd find opportunities to give her tasks and I'd make a point of praising her when she does the right thing. I'd reserve the rest of the heaviness for use if she screwed really bad or kept screwing up the same way. Try not to take any of this personally. Even good kids screw up and the most honorable folks on earth were occasionally difficult at 15.


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## Rugs

It may seem like an extreme punishment but she gets an extereme amount of freedom. Sorry, she knew the consequences. 

She knows she gets a high level of freedom and she knew what would happen if she broke my trust. 

I don't push her grades at all, she does. I don't care about her grades. I want a respectful child. 

She knew I had to spend $400.00 cash on her eye medication that she wanted. 

She can go to church every day if she wants but not sit around with her group. 

She made a clay something or other for Chrismas but it didn't work out so she poured it down the drain. When I asked her if she poured it down the drain, she said no. I said it nicely and she would not have been in trouble. This is a kid whom I have never grounded. I spend $350.00 Chrismas Eve on a plumber, snaking clay out of the pipes. 

She knew I would not have yelled and I understand why she lied. 

I am tired of it. Good grades, responsible......, now it seems like just a great cover to get away with stuff. M

Again, she knew the consequences of breaking my trust. It is a harsh punishment but I feel it can't be a light punishment for all the things she has gotten to do. 

I am calmer this morning and I will talk to her. I want her reasoning behind her lies. Personally, I think it's a test because I am always am such a push-over. 

I did speak with her dad too and he said her attitude toward him has been one of entitlement and he had been meaning to discuss it with her. 

I KNOW she is 15! I was terrible a 15. I got nothing from my parents from 9 years old on. My mother was a schizophrenic and my dad left to live in another state. I am very sensitive to kids getting everything they want and then not respecting their parents. I want them to have the freedoms they have but not at my expense. Not happening. 

I will follow up with what her dad and I decide and what had outcome turns out to be. 

If it's a huge mistake on my part, I will admit it at that time.


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## coffee4me

Rugs said:


> she broke my trust.
> 
> I want a respectful child.
> 
> I am tired of it. Good grades, responsible......,
> 
> Again, she knew the consequences of breaking my trust.


Reading you post, I get you as a parent. I want the same things respect and trust. My kids as well have a great deal of freedom and privledges. 

My approach as a parent is a bit different. I've never grounded my kids or taken away their possessions. I want them to know and understand real life consequences to their actions. As adults no one is going to ground them or take away their stuff for bad behavior. 

For my kids, the real life consequence for lying is that I no longer trust you. I will think twice before I give you permission to go somewhere. I will ask you more questions and proof to back up your statements. I will tell you flat out, I don't believe you. I'm very observant and when things don't fit logically I'll bring it up, that's just a reminder that I'm watching because I don't trust you. That behavior would last as long as it takes to regain my trust. 

My kids would rather give me all of their possessions than to feel like they have lost respect or trust. They have never been punished for telling me anything and my son has done some things I wished I didn't know about. But he'd rather tell the truth and own his actions. Because taking responsibility is what is important and making mistakes is part of growing up. 

To me taking away their things emphasizes the importance of those things.  They suffer without the things and that makes the things more important to them. What I've been able to teach my kids is not the importance of the things but the importance of my trust and respect. They truly feel they are suffering if they lose that, it is what they value the most.


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## Thundarr

Rugs said:


> It may seem like an extreme punishment but she gets an extereme amount of freedom. Sorry, she knew the consequences.


We pick and choose our battles. Like you, I made lying to me or disrespecting me a big deal.

We have three boys who are all grown men now. My oldest son was grounded more often than not between 15-18 but it's our job to hold them accountable because life will once they're grown. Those little white lies can become a habit. You're a good parent for helping your daughter be more prepared for adulthood where compulsive lying would put her at a disadvantage.


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## kokonatsu

Rugs said:


> She made a clay something or other for Chrismas but it didn't work out so she poured it down the drain. When I asked her if she poured it down the drain, she said no. I said it nicely and she would not have been in trouble. This is a kid whom I have never grounded. I spend $350.00 Chrismas Eve on a plumber, snaking clay out of the pipes.
> 
> I KNOW she is 15! I was terrible a 15. I got nothing from my parents from 9 years old on. My mother was a schizophrenic and my dad left to live in another state. I am very sensitive to kids getting everything they want and then not respecting their parents. I want them to have the freedoms they have but not at my expense. Not happening.
> 
> I will follow up with what her dad and I decide and what had outcome turns out to be.
> 
> If it's a huge mistake on my part, I will admit it at that time.


Then make her pay the $350 for snaking out the drains. That's way more appropriate than the miles long list you are planning. 

One weekend, my cousins (who we saw ALL THE TIME) were over for Sunday night when my youth group was, and mom didn't let me go. So I stayed alone in my room most of the time. I will never understand why parents don't allow kids to go to youth group.. 

For any discipline to be effective, it has to fit the crime. Your long list in the OP does not fit her crimes. Maybe make her work to pay for her eye drops or whatever it was.. (I'm on my phone and it's hard to navigate..), or make her do it when you're watching her.. but taking away all those things will not help, IMO. but you know your daughter more than any one here (obviously) so you do what you gotta do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

Could she have used the eye drops and then put them back in her purse? If not, why not?
Your daughter is 15. 15 year olds are irresponsible on some level by nature. So parental oversight for braces and eye drop is needed. If you think she is lying then hand her the eye drops to make sure she uses he. Double check her brackes. Kids, like many adults, will let these things slide.

I agree that some punishment is needed to teach her that lying is not acceptable. The lesson to teach her is that if she tells you the truth, you will help her fix any problem that exists. If you feel there needs to be a punishment, it will be much less if she is honest. 
If she lies and you find out, there will be a punishment that is harsher than if she had just told you.

I did this with my kids. They got to the point here they would burn a path to me to tell me about their screw ups so that I did not find out before they told me. They are in their med 20’s and still do this. My step daughter lives in Florida now and she still calls me to confess and ask for advice. This the result you want.

The punishments you list are so out of proportion to her level of lying that it will back fire. Punishments always have to fit the “crime”. If they are too harsh they do not teach a lesson. They lead to anger and will drive her away from you.

She’s a good kind overall and your punishments are at the level that one gives to a screw-up kid who is going drugs, blowing off school, etc. If you want her to go down that road, keep up punishing her at this level. She will be turned into an angry kid who will live up to the level of punishment that you dish out.

Also, if you take everything away from a kid as you are contemplating doing, what more do they have to lose? 

Come up with a punishment that fits the crime. I think that having her write a paper on the medial issue she has and why the rubber bands and eye drops are needed… 2-3 pages on MS Word would do. 

Plus you will treat her for a while like a 15 year old who is not responsible enough to do these things. So every day you will check for the rubber bands and hand her the eye drops on the necessary schedule. 15 year olds hate to be treated like they are irresponsible. She will get the message.


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## EleGirl

the guy said:


> Have you tried water boarding?


Electric shock might work better.


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## Thundarr

Well if Rugs is like I was then she'll rework the specifics a little bit and will lighten up on the lengths of certain things depending on how her daughter responses to the punishment. Parenting isn't a science after all so we just do our best to know what's right and then do our best to follow through.

I can't list the number of things I could have done better. Fortunately our kids want to love us and want to know we did the best we knew how. I've told my boys more than once that I'd try to figure out a way to avoid capital punishment (spankings) if I had it to do over again. There were a few spankings when they were little guys and quite a few groundings when they were older.

Yep maybe I should have gone with water boarding, electric shock therapy, and caning. .


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## EleGirl

Rugs said:


> It may seem like an extreme punishment but she gets an extereme amount of freedom. Sorry, she knew the consequences.


If you did not want anyone’s input and only validation, you should have said so.


Rugs said:


> I don't push her grades at all, she does. I don't care about her grades. I want a respectful child.


When we raise children we should be raising them to be successful adults, not so much successful children. The fact that you could care less about her grades points to you being too focus on the successful child part. She needs good grades to get into college and/or what she wants to do as an adult. 


Rugs said:


> She knew I had to spend $400.00 cash on her eye medication that she wanted.


15 year olds are irresponsible. You need to be not just ask her if she follows a medial routine. You need to be supervising.


Rugs said:


> She made a clay something or other for Chrismas but it didn't work out so she poured it down the drain. When I asked her if she poured it down the drain, she said no. I said it nicely and she would not have been in trouble. This is a kid whom I have never grounded. I spend $350.00 Chrismas Eve on a plumber, snaking clay out of the pipes.


So punish her for what she did. She cost you $350. Have her work it off. It would cost you about $10 and hour or more to hire a house cleaner. So she owes you 35 hours of bathroom cleaning. Have her clean every bathroom in the house daily for 35 days. She has to scrub out the toilets, sinks, tubs/showers and sweep, mop the floor. That punishment fits the crime.


Rugs said:


> She knew I would not have yelled and I understand why she lied.


What? You would have understood why she lied? But you did not understand why she lied. That’s your point, isn’t it?
So why did she lie? She is a teenager. Teen are working on separating from their parents. They push the limits and even cross them. Lying is part of it.



Rugs said:


> I am tired of it. Good grades, responsible......, now it seems like just a great cover to get away with stuff.


This is a crock. You have a good child who cares about her ‘work’. She obviously has a very strong work effort. If you take this approach you very well might kill her work effort. Good going dad! 


Rugs said:


> Again, she knew the consequences of breaking my trust. It is a harsh punishment but I feel it can't be a light punishment for all the things she has gotten to do.


What you are doing is that you have saved up a bucket of infractions: lying about the clay down the drain, putting the clay down the drain, lying about the braces, lying about the eye drops. The way you are talking here surely are many more of these infractions that you have listed because 3 lies like this do not warning taking everything away from her.
The way to handle this is not some gargantuan punishment that lumps everytihing together and thus is not related to the “crimes”. The way to handle is to punish each incident with a punishment that fits each crime. 
One part of the “punishment” should be to right something she did wrong… clog the since and run up a $350 bill, she can clean bathrooms to pay back the $$. Her braces and eye drops… she has to study/write about why she has to do those and you will need to supervise her because she is not mature enough to do them.
The other part of a punishment can be punitive. Take way the iPad for a month and only let her use it if she needs it for a school assignment. Supervised.
If you take away everything she cares about in one fell swoop, she will have nothing to care about. She could very well just give up .. on everything. And you have nothing you can add in punitive punishment if she screws up again.


Rugs said:


> I am calmer this morning and I will talk to her. I want her reasoning behind her lies. Personally, I think it's a test because I am always am such a push-over.


It’s no so much a test as it is a teen pushing the limits. Remember that teens are starting to separate from their parents. It is their JOB to separate. One thing teens start to believe, and rightly so, is that they have some autonomy from their parents. They are mini-adults. And they believe that they do not have to tell their parents everything. This becomes more and more their mode of operation as they get older.
White lies like this are often a statement that “I’m my own person right now. So what I do is none of your business.” It is up to you to help her realize what is your business and what is only her business.
Her putting clay down YOUR plumbing is your business because it’s your plumbing and your money that has to be spent to fix it.
Her taking care of her teeth and eyes is still your business because she is still an irresponsible 15 year old and your legally responsible for making sure she takes care of her own medical needs. 
These are the kinds of things you need to be talking to her about. If you rant on about her needed to respect you, you will lose her. A person cannot demand respect, not even a parent.



Rugs said:


> I did speak with her dad too and he said her attitude toward him has been one of entitlement and he had been meaning to discuss it with her.


So address the attitude of entitlement. But again, if you take everything away from her, she will learn that you can take everything away. But she will also learn that once you take it all way she has nothing more to lose.


Rugs said:


> I KNOW she is 15! I was terrible a 15. I got nothing from my parents from 9 years old on. My mother was a schizophrenic and my dad left to live in another state. I am very sensitive to kids getting everything they want and then not respecting their parents. I want them to have the freedoms they have but not at my expense. Not happening.


My son’s father was upset because I bought my son toys and books. I always bought educational toys and book. But his take on it was that he never had toys growing up so his son does not need toys. He was also angry that I had my son in activities like sports, learning to read music, swimming, etc.
What was obvious to me was that not having toys, activities and love, etc. turned my ex into a bitter, angry person. 


Rugs said:


> I will follow up with what her dad and I decide and what had outcome turns out to be.


The punishment should always fit the “crime”. It should contain an element of fixing the problem and punitive punishment for the “crime”.
Teach that if she comes to you with the truth, then the punitive portion of the punishment will be much lower or not at all. You will help her fix the problem. This encourages her to come to you and admit things she has done wrong. 

Punish “crimes” one by one. Do not accumulate bucket loads of them and then come down with a huge punishment that takes away everything.

Do not take away everything because then she will give up. Plus, if you have taken away everything, what are you going to take away if she does the next naughty thing?



Rugs said:


> If it's a huge mistake on my part, I will admit it at that time.


I hope that you and your husband take input being given you here seriously.


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## Thundarr

EleGirl said:


> Punish “crimes” one by one. Do not accumulate bucket loans of them and then come down a huge punishment that takes away everything.
> Do not take away everything because then she will give up. Plus, if you have taken away everything, what are you going to take away if she does the next naughty thing?


I can vouch for this because it's something I had to work on. A little attitude would manifest in several ways all at once and then I was ready to drop the hammer. The problem is kids will get used to not having whatever was taken away and if you took everything then you have less influence to take away privileges because they're already all gone. Not only that but they've learned that life isn't so bad when everything is taken away so the threat isn't so scary any more.


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## frusdil

I agree that your punishment for any of these petty lies is WAY OTT.

I also agree that your daughter should experience consequences for lying. Those consequences should be things like taking away her electronics until she's paid off the $350 for the pipes, and setting a schedule for checking that she's done her eye drops and rubber bands (in front of you) while explaining that this is because she cannot be trusted. These are the consequences of her lies.

The list of things you are taking away from her - I would consider that action if my daughter got a DUI, or stole a car or something...not for lying about taking eye drops etc.


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## Pluto2

Seems to me there are two different types of behavior here. Deceit, and destruction. She is not being honest with you, so you must stop trusting her until she earns that back. I wouldn't ground her....yet. Let her go out only on the condition that she check in every half-hour. If she should fail to check in, even once, then ground. If she goes to a friend's house, tell her a parent at that house must call you to verify her presence. Again, if she fails, then ground. If she won't take her eye drops, you put them in-at your convenience. If she balks, you tell her you'd love to treat her like an adult, but she has not earned the privilege. These are the repercussions for losing your trust.

The destruction of property (drain) could be met with her either losing an equivalent dollar value of her belongings, or requiring her to work it off. Give her additional household chores, or require she babysit and give you the money. This also indicates a lack of respect for your efforts in providing a nice house.

I get why you are doing this, but you really are piling on for things that accumulated.


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## pidge70

What do you mean eye medication she wanted? Were the eye drops not medically necessary?

You're upset that you spent $400 on eye drops, and $350 on a plumber, and now you want to take a hit on $600 for a trip to punish her? I'm not comprehending the logic here. 

Tell you what....I'll trade you my 15yr old for yours straight up. My kid thinks I'm tough....Holy Hell.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

My 17yo has been raised with a lot of freedom, a lot of trust, and a lot of respect. I'm not raising a child, I'm raising an ADULT. 

Every teen has LOTS of choices to make: study and get good grades/not; have sex/not; drink and party/not; cut school/not. Unless you're homeschooling them in your own home, you don't have eyes on your kids 24/7. Therefore, kids still have the opportunity DAILY to make good/poor choices! You need to arm your daughter with the knowledge of:

what is the right choice
why is this the right choice (how do I decide?)
how can I turn things around if I make the wrong choice (purposely or accidentally)
Your 'bring the hammer down' approach reminds me of my daughter's friend who gets straight A's (she'll be valedictorian), wins all kinds of competitions, etc. Her parents are extremely over-the-top on her limits. She started cutting herself a few years ago (undoubtedly the pressure to be 'perfect' and 'best' at everything). In the past year, they've taken her to task for going to an R-rated movie; punishment was no bed or electricity (slept on the floor in the dining room for weeks, had no tv, or opportunity to read once the natural light stopped coming through the window). [My solution would have been to ask my daughter WHY the movie was rated "R", WHY she wanted to see it, WHAT she thought of it.]

She can't go on a date without a 3rd-party to act as an escort (it's NOT a cultural thing). [As I pointed out to my 17yo yesterday, kids can have unprotected sex at 3:45pm as well as 12:15am...there's nothing "magical" about night.]

Need I tell you, this friend's bad behavior/poor choices have escalated! Parents went through her phone and found she'd been sneaking out to see her boyfriend. She is now grounded, no phone, was supposed to 'dump' boyfriend (how's that going to work when they see each other at school every day?!?) 

IMO, these parents have created this problem! She's a good girl (I've known her since she was 12yo, she's 17 now). She gets straight A's, she's motivated, she's involved with her church (sound like YOUR daughter?)

Without words, they're telling her that she isn't SMART enough to make good choices! That she isn't smart enough to live in a world full of other teens. They're afraid she'll do something stupid (haven't we all?), or make a mistake, or not be perfect. Instead of seeing the good, recognizing the effort and growth she's made in the last 5 years, they constantly treat her like a little kid. Yet, they fully intend to send her away to college in 8 months! WTH do they think is going to happen at that point? She's either been trusted to make good decisions, lauded for them, helped to correct the ones that were bad, or she hasn't!

How many GOOD decisions do YOU think she'll "magically" make in 8 months? Me? I think she'll make very few! I think she's the kind of kid who'll be 'wussed' into making BAD choices (are you too scared to drink? afraid your parents will find out? aren't you old enough to make your own decisions? don't you LOVE me enough to have sex, etc.) because she wants SO BADLY to be SEEN as mature, normal, an adult. She'll suddenly BE an 18yo 'adult', but with absolutely ZERO experience in making adult decisions. Good luck with that one!

Please TALK to your daughter about the effects of not using her medicine, not dealing with her braces correctly, not being honest with YOU. Please heed the excellent advice others have posted here! Your entire focus should be on assisting her to live SMARTLY without you three years from now (and going forward from then on!) 

Best wishes to all!


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## EleGirl

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Your 'bring the hammer down' approach reminds me of my daughter's friend who gets straight A's (she'll be valedictorian), wins all kinds of competitions, etc. Her parents are extremely over-the-top on her limits. She started cutting herself a few years ago (undoubtedly the pressure to be 'perfect' and 'best' at everything). In the past year, they've taken her to task for going to an R-rated movie; punishment was no bed or electricity (slept on the floor in the dining room for weeks, had no tv, or opportunity to read once the natural light stopped coming through the window). [My solution would have been to ask my daughter WHY the movie was rated "R", WHY she wanted to see it, WHAT she thought of it.]


OMG, I feel so sorry for her. I can see why she is cutting herself. She will most likely run off with the first guy who look like he can get her away from this abusive household.


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## Thundarr

Any thoughts Rugs? A lot of the input here has been about approach but I think everyone has your daughter's best interests in mind so I'm glad you took constructive criticism well.


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## Blonde

Have you considered that she might have lied because she was afraid of your OTT punishments for forgetting the eyedrops and rubber bands?

If she ever does anything REALLY BAD do you think she is going to feel safe communicating it to you?

I have a policy with my kids that I want truth and I will forgive a great deal as long as they are *honest.*

Daily supervision and nagging about the eyedrops and rubber bands is punishment enough IMO. After a month you can ask her if she thinks she is ready for another try at managing those responsibilities without your supervision.


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## anja

I'm confused. Is she a "good kid" or are you "tired of it"? Are you asking for our thoughts or being defensive of your chosen course of action? Wait... when you asked for opinions, did you mean "What else can I do to ensure she'll never trust me enough again to tell me the truth?" 
People lie because they are afraid of something. What is your daughter afraid of?


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## unbelievable

Even highly intelligent, very honest people break things in the home and those things have to be repaired. Had she been perfectly honest about dumping the wet clay down the drain, you still may have not been able to avoid the plumbing bill, so the $350 wasn't caused by lying but by a 15 year old being ignorant about plumbing (a trait no doubt shared by most 15 year olds). 
There are times for coercive reinforcement but positive reinforcement works lots better. Positive reinforcement keeps working when you aren't around. Fear and coercion only work if you happen to know of an offense and you happen to be available to administer punishment. A kid who does what you want because she has adopted your values or because she admires and respects you too much to let you down is a whole lot less trouble than a kid you are in constant power struggles with. In just a very few years, all forms of coercion available to you are going to be gone but you will probably still wish to have some influence.
If my kid was generally untruthful to everyone, my kid would have a serious problem. If she was truthful to everyone but me, I would have the problem. Before I'd come down heavy for a kid lying to me, I'd do a little self-checking first to make sure I wasn't teaching her that I handled truth badly. If you respond to minor mistakes in a huge way, how likely is she to come to you when she has a big problem? My kids are grown but I supervise cops, now. I could pretty easily turn most of them into liars by the way I handle their mistakes. Part of fairness is recognizing good behavior as well as bad. That's why I suggested giving her tasks where she could earn praise and positive reinforcement while she's doing whatever penance you choose to impose.


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## Uptown

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> My daughter's friend who gets straight A's ...started cutting herself a few years ago. (undoubtedly the pressure to be 'perfect' and 'best' at everything).


SGW, cutting and other forms of self harm are STRONGLY associated with having strong BPD traits. Indeed, the association is so strong that self harming is one of the nine symptoms used in diagnosing BPD. This association has been found in many studies. A 2004 study, for example, found that most people treated for cutting themselves have full-blown BPD. It concluded:
Self-mutilating behavior is a symptom seen in both men and women with various psychiatric disorders, but the majority of those who self-mutilate are women with borderline personality disorder. This complex, maladaptive behavior is used by clients as a means of self-preservation and emotion regulation, and is often associated with childhood trauma. _See _Understanding those who se... [J Psychosoc Nurs Ment Health Serv. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI.​


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

Thanks, Uptown! (Not to derail original post). I know this young woman *has* received professional help for her cutting.


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## Rugs

I have had company all week so I haven't responded. I am also late to meet my sister so I can type more later in detail.

The talk went well and the punishment went fine too. (More later)

She has earned her phone and iPad back and even go to the mall with a friend and have that friend over on New Years. 

Basically, she was understanding, stated her case, agreed on most things, talked it out, pouted a bit, has earned a few things back based on behavior (past and present). 

It really wasn't that bad for her. The only thing she cannot do is drive around aimlessly with one of her friends that just received their license, and her curfew has been adjusted to an earlier time.

Ski club is a per week basis and not a given that she can just go.

Both her and her brother were talked to by both parents at the same time about new teen boundries and responsibilities. 

Both were getting complacent in there expectations to be able to do whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted with falling respect for mom and dad. I do not wanting my kids to be running the household as I see so many times. Everything is good but there is to be a new normal now.


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## nikoled

I haven't read the whole thread, but I have teens that sound a lot like your daughter. They are great kids and really never do anything awful. I must say that I do think your punishment is a bit extreme and doesn't really fit the crime. Maybe any one of these punishments, but the whole list???

In your shoes I would pick one and stick with it. Or better yet, I would come up with something more fitting. For example, I am going to be putting your eyedrops in for you twice a day as recommended by your doctor since you cannot seem to remember to do so. In addition, because you lied, you will not be (pick one punishment off of your list) for the rest of this week. Or you need to be wearing your rubber bands. If you are not, I am going to be taking your phone. If you lie to me about it then you will not be getting the phone back. 

You want to be in control, but not perceived as irrational.


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## turnera

kokonatsu said:


> Then make her pay the $350 for snaking out the drains. That's way more appropriate than the miles long list you are planning.


This is the kind of punishment that works - you caused this, here's what you do to fix it.


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## turnera

Rugs said:


> The talk went well and the punishment went fine too.


Most importantly, have you set new rules for lying? Kids need to know the rules up front as well as the punishment that awaits for lying.


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## NobodySpecial

One more thing. Stop setting her up to lie. If you know the answer, don't ask the question. Use statements instead. Gee I see that you are not using your expensive eye drops. Something wrong them? You are more likely to get an ooops sorry Mom, I forgot. Do you know where they are?...


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## NextTimeAround

NobodySpecial said:


> One more thing. Stop setting her up to lie. If you know the answer, don't ask the question. Use statements instead. Gee I see that you are not using your expensive eye drops. Something wrong them? You are more likely to get an ooops sorry Mom, I forgot. Do you know where they are?...


Also, I hope this mother practices what she preaches. Parents are not totally honest either. My mother regularly practices selective sight, hearing and memory.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening all
Please be careful with "over punishing" because if you are not careful you can run out of "range" on punishments. 

When I was growing up, my younger sister (about 14) got into a lot of (fairly mild) trouble - smoking etc. My father reacted with excessive punishment - completely grounding her etc. Well she started sneaking out of the house at night, cutting school etc. He took away every last privilege - and she rebelled with even worse behavior. 

Without putting bars in the windows, he couldn't keep her from escaping at night. He would drop her at school, and she would duck out the back. As her transgressions got worse he ran out of things to do. To try to teach her a lesson, and out of ideas, he threw her out of the house. She stayed out - found people who would take care of a (then) 16 year old girl.

Alcohol, drugs - prison for a while for robbery. She was lost. More than 30 years later she is just getting her life back together. 

Please consider what happens when you have used up your "last punishment". What happens when your child thinks of you as the enemy and starts hurting themselves as the best way to hurt you.


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## turnera

Our overly religious, extremely strict best friends ended up putting bars on their windows - to keep sweet innocent teenage girl from getting OUT at night. She just ran away from school. Got pregnant. On drugs. Sold all her belongings. Moved to Hawaii with a druggy. Blew through the money. Came back and adopted out the kid. Met new great guy to whom she lied about her previous life. Who then divorced her when he found out the truth. And the whole time, the girl's mom took no responsibility for how she turned out, even though we'd been telling them for YEARS to stop being so restrictive, and she did exactly what we said she would do. (well, I missed the Hawaii part, but...)


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## michzz

If the punishment does not fit the crime, a petty lie gets doubled-down to another lie to avoid the outrageous level of punishment.

So the girl didn't use her braces rubber bands?

Her ultimate 'punishment' is crooked teeth.

As others have noted in this thread, the severity of your punishment scheme is so over the top to have hardly any relationship to reasonableness.

Your teen will start to tune you out over the unfairness of it all.


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## turnera

My DD's punishment for not wearing her rubber bands was I made her get braces again when she went to college.


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## HypnoHealer

Oh My I am sure for lying about rubber bands on braces should be five or six broken bones with a baseball bat, maybe removing her teeth with a pair of old pliers.

Warden Mommy maybe you should check and see how fast you would like your very smart child to have absolutely zero respect of you.

I do suppose talking is off the table? Are you aware she is actually an adult? I know society is trying like anything to make you believe she is a "child" and might start referring to her as an "infant" soon, but biologically, when she can get pregnant and when she is going through puberty, she is developing her own rules. This is actually normal.

Sitting down and letting her know you are worried and ask her if there is anything you can do to help her or does she have any ideas that she feels might work, seems to me to be the intelligent approach, but boy a good beating with a baseball bat, that would sure show her who is boss here!

Little over the top. Are you having some hormonal, mental issues? Have you seen a doctor lately. Your reaction would trigger a warning flag that your mental-emotional and given her age, doing some math and general lack of heath of many people these days, be setting off some warning bells about your hormones.

Just a thought.


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