# Wife and I had a nice calm talk about PA and a break through



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

*Wife and I had a nice calm talk about being Passive Aggressive and a break through*

I told her I was reading about the silent treatment, being passive aggressive, how much it sucks and is unfair for the recipient, how disgusting, pathetic, immature and selfish it makes me look and what to do instead of PA behavior when I am disappointed with something, how much I knew it cost me and the origin and motives and my PA behavior. 

I told her I loved her and did not want to ever make her feel that way and that I know I have to find a loving way to behave when dealing with disappointment so that it helps our marriage instead of hurt it oer and over again. 

It was a nice calm talk for a change and we connected. She said she loves me but does not like the way I have treated her. She said she starts to soften and feel safe being vulnerable again and then I do something PA again to put the walls back up. 

She said its hard to want to be intimate when she is hurt much of the time. She asked me for some new supports like making dinner more, being more specific about when I will be home and where I am going so she feels more secure, in the loop of my life and informed of my ability to support her or attend things with her. 

She thanked me for the changes I did make over the past two years. Then she asked me if I wanted to have a go of it (did I want to have sex with her). Of course I feel better after the nice talk and meaningful top 20 best ever romp with her. 

Hopefully we can build from it and she understands changing hurtful horrible PA behavior is a formidable effort so a slip may come up on occasion. I told her I would confess when I was feeling the urge to be PA so we can discuss it directly and open instead. 

She said her trying to guess what is wrong all the time is the most maddening and frustrating thing to be deal with so she just shuts down instead so she doesn't have to deal with it. I told her some have said not tolerating it is one of the methods of helping fix it. 

She said she will soften as we make strides and was feeling like she was softening over the past several months since we have made a lot of progress except for my PA behavior when disappointed. 

That was yesterday. Today we will see what transpires

Thanks all for the help with it. The Silent treatment thread was a real wake up call for me and shed the light I needed to address one of the biggest missing pieces of loving my wife and my marriage like I should. I really did not understand until I read about it here and the back and forth of all sides to a PA situation. 

It feels amazing to catch the urge and redirect that wasted energy into something loving and mature and helpful toward my wife and marriage instead of acting like a childish idiot wrecking things evenmore than they already were. I will read about anger management also since it is such a large component of PA.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Sorry, I am lost here. Are you separated? - "THen she asked me if I wanted to have a go if it"

I should have waited for a least 5 replies (but not more than 30) before I joined in, but I think there is some PA in my relationship with wife, so I am anxious to learn about this. 

What did you read (what books etc?) or is that covered in your other threads?

Happy for you that you both are going in the same direction. 

BTW, this comment says so, so much "She said its hard to want to be intimate when she is hurt much of the time. " I bet a lot of sexless marriages are caused by hurt done years ago.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

"Have a go of it " means do you want to be intimate. I will edit that. 

The reading I did was all online so far here and surfing the net results.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> Sorry, I am lost here. Are you separated?


No not separated. She discussed it about 2 years ago but we turned things part way around and then the progress stopped because of my ongoing PA and her resulting shut down from it. 

I did not understand until a few days ago when the silent treatment thread hit home hard for me and I started working on it very recently (days ago). 



blueinbr said:


> BTW, this comment says so, so much "She said its hard to want to be intimate when she is hurt much of the time. " I bet a lot of sexless marriages are caused by hurt done years ago.


That was the first time she said something direct enough for me to comprehend it and act on it. I know what needs to be done. I have to cure myself of PA and love my wife like she deserves. I will grow up. 

BTW my father is the absolute worst PA. That's all I knew until the epiphany acting like a child, tantrums, sulking, silent treatment, its horrible to be on the **** list every day for something most would consider tiny and he considers an all out affront on his highness. 

It's embarrassing to be mimicking him when I hate being n the other end of PA as much as everyone that is on the end of mine. 

I met my wife online 16 years ago. She had a personal quote that was the golden rule. I immediately was attracted to that, messaged her, dated, fell in love immediately, had a great start for about five years and then ...we lost our way twice because of my destructive behavior and her very bad reaction to it.

Once at 7 years and again at 15, she was at her wits end with my behavior and how it made her feel and said things needed to get fixed or she cant go on.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

thread the needle said:


> I told her I was reading about the silent treatment, being passive aggressive, how much it sucks and is unfair for the recipient, how disgusting, pathetic, immature and selfish it makes me look and what to do instead of PA behavior when I am disappointed with something, how much I knew it cost me and the origin and motives and my PA behavior.
> 
> It feels amazing to catch the urge and redirect that wasted energy into something loving and mature and helpful toward my wife and marriage instead of acting like an childish idiot wrecking things evenmore than they already were. I will read about anger management also since it is such a large component of PA.


It is great that you are catching this on your own. Ultimately, individuals are best served by taking responsibility for their feelings. It is a tough pill to swallow, for sure, but one that ultimately empowers the one that (formally) wanted to be the PA victim. Too often, those urges keep partners away from each other. Relationships can never be put on hold. We have to always be looking forward to connectedness and stop making excuses to purposefully be upset.

My old self was PA, at times. While it was a grand leap forward, banishing that behavior, the biggest gains I have made (personally) would be how I handle individuals that are being PA.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

One of the things I find most interesting is my wife would say "it's not always about you" but I did not understand what she was saying and would tell her that. 

Now I understand. For example, she would say "I don't like my car" and I would translate that to "You are a lousy husband" LOL

That thought never crossed her mind but I would give her the silent treatment after that and she had no idea what she did to set that in motion. I now know it was me that set that in motion with a series of absurd conclusions translating an innocent comment into an insensitive personal attack. 

Crazy

Here is another one "No I don't want to go to the movies. There isn't anything I want to see right now" translation resulting in silent treatment "I don't like spending time with you any more because I can't forgive someone for being a lousy husband for so long"


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> That was the first time she said something direct enough for me to comprehend it and act on it. I know what needs to be done. I have to cure myself of PA and love my wife like she deserves. I will grow up.
> 
> BTW my father is the absolute worst PA. That's all I knew until the epiphany acting like a child, tantrums, sulking, silent treatment, its horrible to be on the **** list every day for something most would consider tiny and he considers an all out affront on his highness.
> 
> ...


Well, your success gives hope to us that are still struggling. Thanks for the inspiration for me to do not just better, but do MUCH better.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> Well, your success gives hope to us that are still struggling. Thanks for the inspiration for me to do not just better, but do MUCH better.


what kind of PA behavior do you believe you are guilty of and what are you going to do different next time you trigger? 

I am thinking of saying when I feel the urge "I am getting the urge to (do something passive aggressive) but I am catching it. I am going to do my best to finish this instead or we can table it until I am more calm. The choice is yours" 

Maybe that's nuts but I am going to try it a few times and see how it goes. 

I wish there were more techniques, key beliefs and concepts discussed for those that have overcome PA behaviors but I couldn't seem to get it going in my other thread very deep.


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

thread the needle said:


> thinking of saying when I feel the urge "I am getting the urge to (do something passive aggressive) but I am catching it. I am going to do my best to finish this instead or we can table it until I am more calm. The choice is yours"
> 
> 
> I wish there were more techniques, key beliefs and concepts discussed for those that have overcome PA behaviors but I couldn't seem to get it going in my other thread very deep.


Awareness is the first and one of the most powerful techniques any person can use. Awareness goes beyond the obvious "I have a PA urge right now." When you become distressed, take a moment to analyze everything about your emotional impulses. Instead of being hijacked by your emotions, your pre-frontal cortex can take over and regulate your action/reaction options.

Besides being aware of the emotional impulse itself, it is important to reflect on the trigger, as well. What was it about your partner's action that set you off? Analyze it in-depth, and then challenge your core beliefs. Ultimately, you have to confront the idea that your partner is or is not deserving to suffer because you became upset. You also have to realize that these behaviors are self-defeating and only further commit you to incessant pain.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> One of the things I find most interesting is my wife would say "it's not always about you" but I did not understand what she was saying and would tell her that.
> 
> Now I understand. For example, she would say "I don't like my car" and I would translate that to "You are a lousy husband" LOL
> 
> ...


OMG. Your poor wife! But also, in a way, poor you going through life feeling slighted over things like this. I hope you succeed in stopping this behavior.

Do you have a link to your original thread on the silent treatment? I remember seeing it and being very intrigued but I was in a rush and forgot about it and never read it.

My H gave me the silent treatment 3 times in our marriage. In each instance it was over something small (In my opinion) but I knew what it was. For example, the very last time he was furious because 1) I ate popcorn which he hates the smell of at a ball game. Never mind we were outdoors and someone else was eating popcorn one seat down and he sometimes eats it himself at ball games... he claims to be sickened by the smell and it was a personal affront to him that I had the temerity to eat it in his presence. And then when he was already mad about that and something some else had done (spilled a soda all over him.) I dared to try to help give directions in bad traffic on the way home. 

He did not speak to me for 3 days.

During those three days it occurred to me that I did not want to be married to someone so immature and cruel and I regretted (for many reasons) that I had ever married him in the fist place. When he decided to "grace" me by speaking to me again, I informed him the silent treatment would NEVER happen again or I was leaving. I will not live in a home with a person I could not connect with.

At that time I was so out of love with him I half wanted him to do it again so I would have an excuse to leave. But he said he knew it was not okay and he has never done anything like that since. And, I feel very much more in love with him now.

In my case though, he is not PA in general. I think that was his way of showing me how hurt he was. His mom says his Dad did that to her all the time. 

Have you considered Individual Counseling?

Realizing that it really is NOT about you every time the person you're with does not feel the same way you do about something or want to do something you want to do is a huge step. You have to understand that everyone has their own point of view, their own desires. They can be unhappy about something without thinking less of you or without being unhappy with you personally.

I think this would be great for you and your wife to learn about:
The Policy of Joint Agreement

Good luck and congratulations on your break through. (And know you are a very lucky man to still have your wife...)


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

thread the needle said:


> *One of the things I find most interesting is my wife would say "it's not always about you" but I did not understand what she was saying* and would tell her that.
> 
> Now I understand. For example, she would say "I don't like my car" and I would translate that to "You are a lousy husband" LOL
> 
> ...


I think this is excellent insight! I remember once commenting to my then-husband that I wasn't really happy with the way the cabinetmaker had done the end-panel on the refrigerator. I asked him (since he insisted on being the one who dealt with the contractors) to ask if he would mind doing [a simple solution that I'd come up with] instead. I got the silent treatment for several days coupled with a refusal to actually discuss the matter with the cabinet guy, or allow me to. He'd taken my mild displeasure with the contractor's work as a direct personal attack against him. It wasn't about him. It was about a 30 minute fix to a refrigerator end panel that required a simple conversation to remedy. 

Passive-aggression is actually a very self-centered mindset - thinking that everything is about you. I think one of the biggest steps in stopping p-a behavior is to realize that most people really aren't actually as focused on you as you imagine they are. A whole lot of things really just aren't about you. They're about the car, the movie, the refrigerator end-panel - not you. You make these random things about you, by deciding that they are and that your partner needs to be punished for your own perceptions.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Awareness is the first and one of the most powerful techniques any person can use. Awareness goes beyond the obvious "I have a PA urge right now." *When you become distressed, take a moment to analyze everything about your emotional impulses. Instead of being hijacked by your emotions, your pre-frontal cortex can take over and regulate your action/reaction options*.
> 
> Besides being aware of the emotional impulse itself, *it is important to reflect on the trigger, as well*. What was it about your partner's action that set you off? Analyze it in-depth, and then *challenge your core beliefs*. Ultimately, you have to *confront the idea that your partner is or is not deserving to suffer because you became upset. You also have to realize that these behaviors are self-defeating and only further commit you to incessant pain*.


The bolded words clarify what I must do. Thank you. This will be printed out for daily morning reminder of my priorities until I get the hang of it. 



WorkingWife said:


> OMG. Your poor wife! But also, in a way, poor you going through life* feeling slighted *over things like this. I hope you succeed in stopping this behavior.
> 
> Do you have a link to your original thread on the silent treatment? I remember seeing it and being very intrigued but I was in a rush and forgot about it and never read it.
> 
> ...


All this hit home and is very helpful, Thank you for participating in my recovery and comprehension. I will find the link and post it for you in another post below. Its the least I could do for you after helping me with your insights. 



Rowan said:


> I think this is excellent insight! I remember once commenting to my then-husband that I wasn't really happy with the way the cabinetmaker had done the end-panel on the refrigerator. I asked him (since he insisted on being the one who dealt with the contractors) to ask if he would mind doing [a simple solution that I'd come up with] instead. I got the silent treatment for several days coupled with a refusal to actually discuss the matter with the cabinet guy, or allow me to. *He'd taken my mild displeasure with the contractor's work as a direct personal attack against him. It wasn't about him.* It was about a 30 minute fix to a refrigerator end panel that required a simple conversation to remedy.
> 
> *Passive-aggression is actually a very self-centered mindset - thinking that everything is about you*. I think one of the biggest steps in stopping p-a behavior is to realize that *most people really aren't actually as focused on you as you imagine they are. A whole lot of things really just aren't about you. They're about the car, the movie, the refrigerator end-panel - not you. You make these random things about you, by deciding that they are and that your partner needs to be punished for your own perceptions*.


Agree. Its getting clearer by the minute how much suffering I caused so many and especially my wife and myself by not being able to grasp that comment said a thousand times by my wife to me "Its not about you"


It takes some getting used to since its so new and so shocking buts its liberating as he11 to not feel so $hitty every few hours about someone slighting me with their independent thoughts entirely independent of me. I am embarassed to have been so thick and unaware of my destructive issue. 

I am in fear of going overboard by overcompensating and seeming foreign to those that know me best. Hopefuly I can manage this recovery with some grace.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

@WorkingWife 

Here is the link you asked for 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sive-behavior-including-silent-treatment.html


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

thread the needle said:


> The bolded words clarify what I must do. Thank you. This will be printed out for daily morning reminder of my priorities until I get the hang of it.


Realize that it takes time. You are forming new neural connections. You are beginning by establishing a path through an overgrown and thickly weeded thicket. Your urges will tell you to take the easy way around, by giving the same old negative emotional reaction.

In time, you will create a path that is easier and easier to traverse, culminating into something analogous to a paved trail.

At first, focus on awareness. You can even write down what the impulse is and then force yourself to think of what a positive and healthy response would be. You can then make the choice of your course of action.

Make sure you let it be known if you are struggling with this after the fact, in the hours and days since the trigger event. Individuals typically have to also establish a new pressure relief system.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Individuals typically have to also establish a new pressure relief system.


Please elaborate if its not too much to ask


----------



## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

thread the needle said:


> Please elaborate if its not too much to ask


Of course.

Typically, individuals relieve pressure by offloading emotional poison onto another individual. When that enraged driver cuts off you (for example), you become upset and calm down by doing the same to that driver, in retaliation. That driver received his punishment for the feeling elicited within you, which tends to soothe your ego/pride/inner voice.

The problem is that it is a very short-term fix, and one that locks one into bad behavioral patterns.

Then I come along and tell individuals to just stop it with the bad behavior. That alone is horrendously unrealistic, as individuals don't have the habits formed to instinctively take the better courses of action, but also will be left feeling even more upset.

"Hey, I was taken advantage of!"

I'll give you a brief list of what I advise and use myself:

1. Distract yourself.

This entails doing anything but ruminating about the trigger event.

2. Re-activate your vision.

When you become upset, you tend to be lost in your thoughts. When a trigger event occurs, it is simply compared against your emotional memory banks, you then receive an impulse to act based upon the neural connections made. The words flowing through your mind just ensure you take this action. If you concentrate on your eyesight, you will snap out of thought. It is a bit of a skill, but extremely simple.

3. It is only temporary.

Realize that every time you were upset before, no matter to what extent, you always got over it. What you can be left with is guilt over taking negative emotional reactions, instead of restricting your actions. In time, you will be grateful for restricting negativity from exploding.

4. Think positively.

If you are going to think, then think positively. It can be difficult when very upset, and in those cases, you can take to pen and paper. When severely compromised, just write positive facts.

"I love my partner"
"My partner is beautiful."
etc.

5. Accept.

Don't just accept your partner; Accept yourself. You will become upset, no matter what level of mastery you obtain. It is okay to be upset at times. Emotions do serve a purpose, after all. It is just prudent to not let emotions control us. Just look at the moment as a learning opportunity. You can explore every aspect about that particular event and truly learn about what emotional impulses drive you. From then you can make a better and more in-depth course of action plan.

From there, just take some time. You don't have to solve the problem there and then. It is perfectly fine to take a time-out and approach the subject in the hours or days, moving forward.


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Sounds like a good talk and a good start. She seems really understanding and a keeper. Keep your head out of your ass here, OK?

Let me put a finer point on your behavior, though: It's not "Passive", that's a misnomer to somehow absolve the doer of responsibility, as we associate intent with responsibility. It's really aggressive, regardless of how or what it is..if the intent is to cause harm pr pain, it's aggressive. Don't give yourself a pass. And do'lt prematurely accept that you'll "Slip up"..you have control over what you say and do.

My experience with PA is that it is typically rooted in deeper hostility that has little to do with the other person, it goes back a ways. I applaud your efforts at awareness and self correction, but I suspect that the latent hostility you harbor will ooze out. If you find that happening, use the same awareness of your own behavior..as well as yort desire to preserve your marriage..to get some professional help.


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> All this hit home and is very helpful, Thank you for participating in my recovery and comprehension. I will find the link and post it for you in another post below. Its the least I could do for you after helping me with your insights.
> ...
> 
> It takes some getting used to since its so new and so shocking buts its liberating as he11 to not feel so $hitty every few hours about someone slighting me with their independent thoughts entirely independent of me. I am embarrassed to have been so thick and unaware of my destructive issue.


I think the fact that you're aware and realizing the behavior is not acceptable is huge.

I don't have a PA bone in my body (I don't think...), but I can definitely relate to you on being very sensitive to criticism - real *or imagined*.

If I felt I let someone down in the slightest, or said or did anything inappropriate, I would fear they did not like/approve of me. Particularly my partner. And if he said something critical of me, I would feel extremely hurt/scared. It's hard to describe. I think my usual tactic for dealing with it was to point our all his flaws. (Maybe that is passive aggressive, IDK.)

I would also talk down about other people - point out all their weaknesses. I think I felt on some level that everyone else had to be more flawed than me or I would not have any friends.

ANYHOW - one day I noticed how my H could agree with me and laugh, or be annoyed by, all the quirks and flaws of our friends and aquaintenances, but he still liked them, and so did I. Then I noticed in the business world how so many people have some serious short comings and can irritate the hell out of their boss/coworkers on occasion, but they are still liked and valued. And how people can actually do some pretty crappy things to one another and good friends and family will overlook it and accept them and love them regardless.

And it dawned on me... I don't have to be perfect to be valued and loved. In fact, my flaws are really part of my charm and what makes me unique. My H can tell me I'm driving him crazy at the moment and still LOVE ME TO DEATH and want me in his life. My family and friends still care about me and want me around even if I have all my flaws.

Once I had that epiphany I stopped being defensive. Some things (like my being super spacey) I just sort of embraced and decided "I am what I am. Let WorkingWife be WorkingWife..." My God, the things I've seen people overlook in others? The things *I *overlook? Surely they will overlook my unintentional flaws. They won't leave or abandon me because they had one unhappy thought about me.

Some things where I know my ways cause my H frustration, I try to work on. Like I am super messy, so instead of being defensive and pointing out all his flaws, now I just happily pick my stuff up when he points it out and we joke about how oblivious I am to mess.

ETA: I think the "silent treatment" and other PA behaviors are controlling at their core. The person dishing out the treatment is trying to "control" the thoughts, words, actions of the recipient. I think they are saying "I will make you so miserable that in the future you will know it's not worth it to ever say or do anything I don't like." The sad irony, of course, is that in their insecurity they are actually pushing the other person away. 

*So I am very curious:*
1. How long would your silent treatments last?
2. When you were upset over something like your wife complaining about the car, what were you _*thinking*_when you didn't speak to her? Were you so angry you couldn't speak or were you thinking this will teach her a lesson...? 
3. Did it ever occur to you during the middle of a silent treatment that you'd taken a comment wrong and were being unreasonable?


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> BTW my father is the absolute worst PA. That's all I knew until the epiphany acting like a child, tantrums, sulking, silent treatment, its horrible to be on the **** list every day for something most would consider tiny and he considers an all out affront on his highness.
> 
> It's embarrassing to be mimicking him when I hate being n the other end of PA as much as everyone that is on the end of mine.


You know, not only did you have this "modeling" of how to handle disappointment/frustration growing up, but also, when you are a kid and you're constantly on guard thinking 'Oh God, what did I do wrong now?" I think it makes you very sensitive to criticism.

Not that anyone likes to be criticized, of course, but this kind of unpredictable behavior on your father's part would make you very afraid of disappointing/upsetting others, so when your W says something innocent like "I don't want to go to a movie" you are on high alert hearing that there is something wrong with you and she doesn't want to be with you.

And then the tool you know to deal with conflict is to act like the very person who probably made you so insecure.

Isn't life fun? But that's okay because you can change, you can do better! You are not doomed to repeat the sins of the father forever.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thread the needle said:


> One of the things I find most interesting is my wife would say "it's not always about you" but I did not understand what she was saying and would tell her that.
> 
> Now I understand. For example, she would say "I don't like my car" and I would translate that to "You are a lousy husband" LOL


So what are you doing (with a therapist) to work on your low self esteem?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Hmm. This thread makes me wonder if the 180 can be considered a passive-aggression technique. I guess it depends on the goal of the person using it.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> 1. How long would your silent treatments last?
> 2. When you were upset over something like your wife complaining about the car, what were you _*thinking*_when you didn't speak to her? Were you so angry you couldn't speak or were you thinking this will teach her a lesson...?
> 3. Did it ever occur to you during the middle of a silent treatment that you'd taken a comment wrong and were being unreasonable?


1. Minutes to days. It depended on my wife's reaction or distractions of life. If my wife was sweet at some point I would let things go. If she got angry and confronted me we would fight because she was usually very defensive, angry and stubborn when I told her what the issue was that I was having. 

2. Punishment, disgust not deserving of my highness, ungrateful biatch

3. No I struggled with understanding her comments or actions were not always about me, I personalized all complaints as a personal attack or lack of respect. Realizing she says things and does things that have nothing to do with me is liberating. I will assume not going for because its exhausting taking on all that she complains about is being placed at my door step because it just isnt. 



WorkingWife said:


> when you are a kid and you're constantly on guard thinking,,,.


What I was thinking as a kid is how do I stay off the $hit list which was impossible so I can avoid the silent treatment tantrum, witholding love to punish or a full on destruction of happiness with a lecture for hours "criticizing" and rereviewing resolved matters like ripping off a band aid of everything I did wrong over the past months and years. He was an obnoxious bully and still is today. We are estranged and that is because I called bull$hit on his a$$ and he went PA once and for all with the ultimate silent treatment of 11 months and counting and it has been the happiest 11 months so far telling him to phuck off with his bull$hit and that I don't give a $hit any more to try to please his stupid a$$ by foregoing the pursuit of my own happiness.

The ONLY way to shut him up was to PROMISE COMPLIANCE with NO INTENTION OF ACTUALLY COMPLYING 



turnera said:


> So what are you doing (with a therapist) to work on your low self esteem?


I'm not feeling low self-esteem. Quite the opposite. I am enjoying all matter of life except the challenging marriage because the destruction created from not having a manual ahead of time. Silent treatment to punish is not behavior of low self-esteem. Conflict avoidance would be unless the other person is screaming and throwing things so anything else said makes things worse not better. Knowing when to shut up so things don't escalate into violence is important also.



jld said:


> Hmm. This thread makes me wonder if the 180 can be considered a passive-aggression technique. I guess it depends on the goal of the person using it.


Hmm is right


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

jld said:


> Hmm. This thread makes me wonder if the 180 can be considered a passive-aggression technique. I guess it depends on the goal of the person using it.


It shouldn't be if done with its true intent which is to disconnect and move on with your life. But I have seen many here describe it as a manipulation tool to try and get their spouses attention back..so I could see how it might be


----------



## LadybugMomma (Apr 28, 2016)

My marriage isn't sexless but I can confirm that when my H and I are having a disagreement/issue, sex is the last thing on my mind.


----------



## thread the needle (May 4, 2015)

And the 180 I believe was written by Michelle Weiner Davis a licensed clinical social worker and best selling author in the marriage an relationship category. 

Is she recommending Passive Aggressive behavior ?

Chump lady thinks so http://www.chumplady.com/2014/07/the-pretzel-logic-of-the-180/


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

*Re: Wife and I had a nice calm talk about being Passive Aggressive and a break throug*



thread the needle said:


> I told her I was reading about the silent treatment, being passive aggressive, how much it sucks and is unfair for the recipient, how disgusting, pathetic, immature and selfish it makes me look and what to do instead of PA behavior when I am disappointed with something, how much I knew it cost me and the origin and motives and my PA behavior.
> 
> I told her I loved her and did not want to ever make her feel that way and that I know I have to find a loving way to behave when dealing with disappointment so that it helps our marriage instead of hurt it oer and over again.
> 
> ...


Pretty cool, sir. I am very happy for you. Fixing things like this and enjoying the resulting happiness is about as good as it gets. Nothing like a relaxing smile after good sex with the woman you love, and knowing is was because you "figured it out" and started working on fixing a problem.
Kudos!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

thread the needle said:


> ...Knowing when to shut up so things don't escalate into violence is important also....


That's for sure.

That's also why I was curious how long your "silent treatment's" lasted. Sometimes it's very wise to stop talking and remove yourself from the other person's presence when emotions are high. I consider that calming down, not doling out the silent treatment. And if the other person is in your face demanding you talk and explain your anger right then and there, then they're making things worse and you're wise to remain silent and get away from them 'till you can collect yourself and your thoughts. (Or just say "I need time, let's talk later" and get away.)

To me, the silent treatment is when you deliberately "treat" others to your stony silence in an attempt to punish/make them miserable.

Your dad sounds like a real miserable piece of work. Good for you staying away from him. Sometimes being on the receiving end of the silent treatment actually IS a treat when you're not stuck living with the person...


----------

