# 5 years married



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Tonight was my 5 year wedding anniversary. It started off great. A friend watched our two kids and we got to enjoy a few glasses of some delicious champagne, exchanged cards and gifts and then went off to dinner. Dinner started off well, but a comment was made by my husband, basically making a joke about me being intoxicated when I thought I being thoughtful. It came out later that he felt what I said was rude-- so we were both being sensitive. Complicated for something petty on both our parts.

The real issue for me is these things resulted in him saying I was "ungrateful", followed by saying I was a "spoiled little *****". I proceeded to excuse myself and step outside which is all he could focus in the remainder of the evening.

These words are an especially big trigger as I stay home with our 3
y/o and 1 y/o and there seems to be stress for him around the fact that I don't work (I had a well paying job that I left when I had our first child-- something we discussed and both decided we wanted one of us, ie me, to be the one to raise our kids).

As an aside: we are comfortable financially with having him be the sole bread winner. I cook 2-3 meals a day, maintain the house and homeschool our kids, all the while staying rather fit-- which is not easy! 

The fact he could say these words in such a special yet private moment makes it feel like those feelings are more genuine. I'm struggling with even looking at him without hurt and anger. 
Is his behavior normal? Is it ok? Should I be lax about it and let it go?


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

But is it true ? Think before you answer. Are you an only child? I’ve witnessed plenty examples of women who think they can get away with anything because they can throw the “I clean house and children” line out like it is a blanket excuse for anything.


----------



## Lotsofheart73 (Oct 13, 2021)

Even though you say the decision for you to quit your job and stay home with the kids was a joint agreed upon decision, it sounds like he may have some resentment building up.
Also, although stepping away from a heated or highly emotionally situation can be a good way to diffuse the situation and both parties cool off, some people view it as child-like/runaway spoiled brat behavior (not saying it is but I’ve come across people who view it this way in many cases).
So keeping these things in mind, maybe the two of your need to have a sit down and discuss what is really going on. In a non-accusatory manor of course. Don’t let resentment build up on his side or yours. It’s hard to get rid of it. Try to talk honestly about feelings. Maybe reassess the work, childcare & household arrangements?? Is it working out the way you two envisioned? Maybe each of you need to show more gratitude towards each other for all that the other person does instead of “I do all this & this etc etc etc”.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I can fully understand that you think it best to be a full time mum,(although not quite sure what home schooling you need to do with a baby and a toddler), but you guys need to sit down when you are both calm and not been drinking and talk this through. 
Sounds as if you both has a bit too much to drink which is usually a bad idea.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> resentment


Precisely. I think my wife and I have the same problem. We had the "discussion" in May of 2016 when she wanted to "retire" so she could care for our adult daughter who,, it was apparent, she was losing her fight with terminal cancer. I agreed to this readily, I understood that she was compelled, I wanted our daughter to have the good care I knew my wife would provide for her and our grandaughter.

She has not returned to work. I was not resentful of the time she spent on our daughter and granddaughter. But, over time, daughter (who expired) and granddaughter (who moved away to her father's extended family so he could work and care for her properly) have been supplanted by a menagerie of 9 cats, one dog inside, and about 15 more ferel cats who live outside. 



Kecaj27 said:


> in such a special yet private moment makes it feel like those feelings are more genuine


I want you to rest assured, that whether it was 'special yet private moment" is completely irrelevant. How "it feels" is also irrelevant. You should face the FACTS. It is ONLY YOU who is :



Kecaj27 said:


> comfortable financially with having him be the sole bread winner.


Like @Diana7 says, you guys need to go to a quiet place with no liquor license, and get down to the brass tacks. This is going to break your marriage if you don't.



Kecaj27 said:


> there seems to be stress for him around the fact that I don't work


take away "seems". There ain't no "seems" about it. Men with SAHMs have their stress levels in their eyeballs. This ain't 1950. Being a SAHM will not result in a good marriage for you, over the long haul. 

I advise you to use the "N" word....... NEGOTIATE. Your husband may think it's important for you to be with your children while they are of such tender (and developmental) ages. I know I did..... I'm very glad that I endured the time and my kids got their mom. It was a worthwhile sacrifice. But, I really have a hard time to agree that zookeeping is.

People can withstand almost any stress, if there is a KNOWN END. This needs to have a HARD TIMELINE. No "hand-waving", DATE. When you go back to work.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

What a horrible thing to say. Maybe you can go back to your well paid job and he can stay at home cooking, cleaning and changing nappies. I agree with you OP, this is stuff you never forget... maybe you can have an honest conversation with your husband about it. Sounds you married a very immature man.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> But is it true ? Think before you answer. Are you an only child? I’ve witnessed plenty examples of women who think they can get away with anything because they can throw the “I clean house and children” line out like it is a blanket excuse for anything.


Im one of 4 children... j am the youngest. I can definitely be seen as ungrateful because I don't voice my appreciation as im not a great communicator especially when it comes to emotions.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Lotsofheart73 said:


> Even though you say the decision for you to quit your job and stay home with the kids was a joint agreed upon decision, it sounds like he may have some resentment building up.
> Also, although stepping away from a heated or highly emotionally situation can be a good way to diffuse the situation and both parties cool off, some people view it as child-like/runaway spoiled brat behavior (not saying it is but I’ve come across people who view it this way in many cases).
> So keeping these things in mind, maybe the two of your need to have a sit down and discuss what is really going on. In a non-accusatory manor of course. Don’t let resentment build up on his side or yours. It’s hard to get rid of it. Try to talk honestly about feelings. Maybe reassess the work, childcare & household arrangements?? Is it working out the way you two envisioned? Maybe each of you need to show more gratitude towards each other for all that the other person does instead of “I do all this & this etc etc etc”.


I do feel resentment from him and for me building. I've asked many times if he really is comfortable. He always says yes-- it's something we discussed even before marriage because he wanted someone who would want to be with the kids because he didn't want other people raising them. I feel like the resentment is money motivated-- even though financially we are well off. 

He 100% thinks that walking away like that is childish and it's a big trigger for him. I just wasn't sure what else to do because I was incredibly offended and hurt and we were in a very public,quiet and romantic restaurant.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> I can fully understand that you think it best to be a full time mum,(although not quite sure what home schooling you need to do with a baby and a toddler), but you guys need to sit down when you are both calm and not been drinking and talk this through.
> Sounds as if you both has a bit too much to drink which is usually a bad idea.


Agreed, thank you for your reply.

The homeschool is Montessori style education-- regardless of it that 2 kids is a handful! Haha


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Kecaj27 said:


> Tonight was my 5 year wedding anniversary. It started off great. A friend watched our two kids and we got to enjoy a few glasses of some delicious champagne, exchanged cards and gifts and then went off to dinner. Dinner started off well, but a comment was made by my husband, basically making a joke about me being intoxicated when I thought I being thoughtful. It came out later that he felt what I said was rude-- so we were both being sensitive. Complicated for something petty on both our parts.
> 
> The real issue for me is these things resulted in him saying I was "ungrateful", followed by saying I was a "spoiled little ***". I proceeded to excuse myself and step outside which is all he could focus in the remainder of the evening.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't say the behavior is okay but couples do fight. You definitely should not sweep it under the rug though. There probably is at least some truth to those comments. If he's feeling resentful, it should be talked about so you know what needs to change. If there are communication problems, therapy can be quite helpful. If he just needs a reality check, talking it out may be helpful. 

My wife was a nurse and now she stays home with our (5) kids. We are very comfortable financially, I know she works harder than I do, she does the Montessori thing as well, I know she feels under appreciated, etc. I pushed her to be a SAHM when our first was born, and each time when she went back to work part-time, and I still wouldn't want her to work again. Yet, the resentment is there sometimes and I don’t have a good reason for it. So, sometimes comments do slip out (usually as "jokes", which she doesn't appreciate). 

Talking about it does help, but he has to be willing to talk about it. Don't go into the conversation when things are heated or making him feel attacked (because he will just get defensive).


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

bobert said:


> I wouldn't say the behavior is okay but couples do fight. You definitely should not sweep it under the rug though. There probably is at least some truth to those comments. If he's feeling resentful, it should be talked about so you know what needs to change. If there are communication problems, therapy can be quite helpful. If he just needs a reality check, talking it out may be helpful.
> 
> My wife was a nurse and now she stays home with our (5) kids. We are very comfortable financially, I know she works harder than I do, she does the Montessori thing as well, I know she feels under appreciated, etc. I pushed her to be a SAHM when our first was born, and each time when she went back to work part-time, and I still wouldn't want her to work again. Yet, the resentment is there sometimes and I don’t have a good reason for it. So, sometimes comments do slip out (usually as "jokes", which she doesn't appreciate).
> 
> Talking about it does help, but he has to be willing to talk about it. Don't go into the conversation when things are heated or making him feel attacked (because he will just get defensive).


yes, but calling your wife a spoilt little b!tch? I would have punched him in the face...


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> yes, but calling your wife a spoilt little b!tch? I would have punched him in the face...


It certainly wasn't a good choice of words. They do need to get to the bottom of why he feels that way though. Is he just feeling that she does nothing and gets a free ride (doesn't sound like that's reality)? Is she a huge spender blowing through "his" money? Etc.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

bobert said:


> I wouldn't say the behavior is okay but couples do fight. You definitely should not sweep it under the rug though. There probably is at least some truth to those comments. If he's feeling resentful, it should be talked about so you know what needs to change. If there are communication problems, therapy can be quite helpful. If he just needs a reality check, talking it out may be helpful.
> 
> My wife was a nurse and now she stays home with our (5) kids. We are very comfortable financially, I know she works harder than I do, she does the Montessori thing as well, I know she feels under appreciated, etc. I pushed her to be a SAHM when our first was born, and each time when she went back to work part-time, and I still wouldn't want her to work again. Yet, the resentment is there sometimes and I don’t have a good reason for it. So, sometimes comments do slip out (usually as "jokes", which she doesn't appreciate).
> 
> Talking about it does help, but he has to be willing to talk about it. Don't go into the conversation when things are heated or making him feel attacked (because he will just get defensive).


Thank you for your reply. It's really helpful to hear from someone with a similar home life. We've had the talk about me going back to work and he prefers I don't unless I really want to/feel I need to. 

Any idea why you have resentment for something you want and are supportive of? Even if it isn't a good reason... I feel like the difficulty of the SAHM job is often overlooked, even though I know my husband understands because he works from home most days and has experienced it first hand as he is very involved and does help sometimes with the kids. Do you have trouble remembering/acknowledging your wife's efforts? If not, and really it you do have trouble... what is helpful for you to remember and voice appreciation? Also, what do you expect from your wife being home with the kids? Sometimes I feel like his expectations are unrealistic and I only have 2 right now. Maybe I just need to be better with managing them to achieve more. 🤷🏻‍♀️


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> What a horrible thing to say. Maybe you can go back to your well paid job and he can stay at home cooking, cleaning and changing nappies. I agree with you OP, this is stuff you never forget... maybe you can have an honest conversation with your husband about it. Sounds you married a very immature man.


Thank you for being the only one to stand firmly in the communication being way out of line. I get there may be some truth in his words-- Im a terrible communicator so I definitely come off as ungrateful-- but that's no way to communication to anyone let alone your wife. He acknowledged he shouldn't have spoken that way... but it's difficult to truly forgive harsh words because you can't easily forget hearing them, when it's from your husband it's especially difficult.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kecaj27 said:


> Thank you for being the only one to stand firmly in the communication being way out of line. I get there may be some truth in his words-- Im a terrible communicator so I definitely come off as ungrateful-- but that's no way to communication to anyone let alone your wife.


Why does he feel you are ungrateful? You've split your duties, it was a joint decision, so why should you show him that you are grateful? I don't get it.... because he works? You work too!


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Kecaj27 said:


> Is his behavior normal? Is it ok? Should I be lax about it and let it go?


The words he used in my opinion are not ok if they’re right out of the blue. If you were having a larger argument, raising voices, and maybe took a shot at him and this was the response it would be more understandable.

I have never called my wife a name like that and would never do that and I have been married almost 25 years. So to me that language is not acceptable.


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

This was all complicated by the champagne. 

Both of you were wrong & both of you triggered the other. You seem to acknowledge that so there is hope. 

Talk to him in a calmer moment. Apologize for walking away not because you were wrong to take a moment to calm yourself but because that behavior hurt his feelings. Hopefully he will have enough sense to apologize to you for calling you those things. 

As much as you don't communicate well about emotional subjects, you are going to have to find your words. Ask him if there are specific things you do or say that make him feel as though you are ungrateful. Adjust your behavior & speech to reassure him. Remind him in words that you do appreciate him being the bread winner. Ask him what he would like to see happen going forward. Be prepared to talk about both how you would feel & what it would cost for you to go back to work. Perhaps sit down & do a budget together so you can cut some costs & ramp up savings. His resentment might lessen if he sees a growing bank account.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Kecaj27 said:


> Thank you for your reply. It's really helpful to hear from someone with a similar home life. We've had the talk about me going back to work and he prefers I don't unless I really want to/feel I need to.
> 
> Any idea why you have resentment for something you want and are supportive of? Even if it isn't a good reason... I feel like the difficulty of the SAHM job is often overlooked, even though I know my husband understands because he works from home most days and has experienced it first hand as he is very involved and does help sometimes with the kids. Do you have trouble remembering/acknowledging your wife's efforts? If not, and really it you do have trouble... what is helpful for you to remember and voice appreciation?


Sometimes I feel like she has it easy, even though I know she doesn't (and I work from home as well). Some of it is financial, even though we are well off and do not need her working. Yet, in my mind, if we could have more money or be further ahead why shouldn't we? Especially when I start thinking about retirement, college x6, what if's like being laid off, my demise, etc. If she was working most or all of her paycheck would go to childcare anyway though. I also don't want strangers raising my kids, especially when unnecessary. Her working was also harder on the marriage and the kids. So it just wouldn't be worth it and sometimes I have to remind myself of that. She isn't a spender at all and is on the frugal side, so there isn't any resentment there. 

I know that SAHM's are often underappreciated. I try to tell her every day that I appreciate her, especially when she goes above and beyond my "expectations" (I don't like wording it that way). She is trying to be better about accepting that appreciation and not get defensive or rolling her eyes. It's easy to have unrealistic expectations and I definitely used to. 

Remember, showing that appreciation goes both ways. He may need more appreciation from you. For me, that's verbal appreciation but it could be different for someone with different Love Languages (something you should learn about each other if you haven't yet). 



> Also, what do you expect from your wife being home with the kids? Sometimes I feel like his expectations are unrealistic and I only have 2 right now. Maybe I just need to be better with managing them to achieve more. 🤷🏻‍♀️


I expect my kids to be well-taken care of, that's it really. She is a great mother and I trust her completely in that role, so I don't set expectations of what she should be doing with the kids. Everything else is appreciated, not expected. 

I appreciate a clean house, but I don't expect it. Some days the house is spotless, some days I can't find the floor and the sink is piled with dishes. If the house is a mess I help clean up when I'm done work or on the weekend. My kids made the mess, or the mess was made taking care of my kids/family, so it doesn't matter if it happened on her watch or mine. I also have a cleaner come once or twice a week. 

I appreciate when she makes meals each day, but I don't expect it. I do want her to at least have a plan for dinner and meat thawed (if necessary), even if I end up cooking. When I'm done working I either go help her with dinner or I take over. 

I mention those two because you brought them up in your post. What are your husband's expectations?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Explain further on the “Montessori style”?

How do you assess whether they are learning what they should? Are they required to take standardized tests?

I’m curious because the kind of preparation for teaching like that is pretty huge. 
If you’re putting out 2 or 3 meals a day, exercising and staying in shape, and home schooling your kids in a way that gives them much better than a public school education—/ freaking major kudos to you. I couldn’t do what you do.

As for the rest, talk to your husband and see what’s bothering him so badly you can’t even have a romantic anniversary dinner without arguing. That’s not good at all.
And be sure to make your feelings known as well. Don’t make it an adversarial conversation. Married mean you are one.
A team. 

Never hurts to check the phone bill when distance and senseless arguments start popping up, either.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I assume the **** started with a B. Does her regularly call you names or curse at you?
I would be hurt as well.

If he has resentment then it appears that is on him as he is the one that wants you to stay home.

More likely he thinks you should be more subserviently since he is the breadwinner.

I would look to going back to work. You two also need to work on communication. Have you heard of love languages? Is his words of affirmation? I know my husbands is words of affirmation and I make sure to let him know how much I love and appreciate him. 

Is your husband passive aggressive?


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> Explain further on the “Montessori style”?
> 
> How do you assess whether they are learning what they should? Are they required to take standardized tests?


At her children's ages, it is much more learning motor skills and life skills (self-care, care of the environment, care of others) than academics. For example, my 16 month old is currently cutting up banana for his lunch. When he is done he will pour himself an open glass of water, then take it to his table. After lunch he will clean up after himself and probably use the toilet. Some activities definitely are more academic based.

They learn the same things as other kids. It's more the presentation that is different. Students are not graded but they are observed. Standardized testing is required for homeschooled kids and kids enrolled in public Montessori schools. Private Montessori schools can opt in or out of standardized testing. Multi-age classrooms are a large part of the learning method, so many do choose to send the kids to school when eligible (I believe age 3-5 is the first program).


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Regardless of his feelings about what is going on at home or in your marriage his timing was absolutly unacceptable. Name calling is never a good thing, but to start a fight and insult you during an anniversary dinner is just plain damn cruel and hurtful. 

There's a guy who probably wonders why he didn't get laid on his annerversery. Idiot.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i am sorry, but i am taking your husband's side in this.
long gone are the days where a job means you have to be at an office. you can easily work from home nowadays. what exactly is stopping you. Especially if one or two of those kids are now in school, there is no reason you can not be earning a salary working at home.

who, exactly, is putting away college money for those three kids right now? Your poor overworked hubby, along with everything else? What if hubby's job is not that secure, and he is worried about getting laid off and can NOT count on you as a second income?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

bobert said:


> At her children's ages, it is much more learning motor skills and life skills (self-care, care of the environment, care of others) than academics. For example, my 16 month old is currently cutting up banana for his lunch. When he is done he will pour himself an open glass of water, then take it to his table. After lunch he will clean up after himself and probably use the toilet. Some activities definitely are more academic based.
> 
> They learn the same things as other kids. It's more the presentation that is different. Students are not graded but they are observed. Standardized testing is required for homeschooled kids and kids enrolled in public Montessori schools. Private Montessori schools can opt in or out of standardized testing. Multi-age classrooms are a large part of the learning method, so many do choose to send the kids to school when eligible (I believe age 3-5 is the first program).


Thx, I didn’t look carefully at the ages.

OP, will you return to work after they get school age? I am a single man and it’s tough having all the financial responsibility and no backup from a partner. You never said what comment you made that bothered him. Why not? Is it a secret? Did I miss that too?

I wonder if a massage after work and a calm talk about what’s bothering both of you is a solution? Any other problems in the marriage? Do you spend a lot of money, or are you frugal?


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> i am sorry, but i am taking your husband's side in this.
> long gone are the days where a job means you have to be at an office. you can easily work from home nowadays. what exactly is stopping you. Especially if one or two of those kids are now in school, there is no reason you can not be earning a salary working at home.
> 
> who, exactly, is putting away college money for those three kids right now? Your poor overworked hubby, along with everything else? What if hubby's job is not that secure, and he is worried about getting laid off and can NOT count on you as a second income?


my kids aren't in school, they are 1 y/o and 3 y/o.
My husband shared his work life with me daily. He is lucky enough to have a very secure job/career. I 100% understand there is stress being the sole breadwinner, but income isn't a concern. I have actually tried working remotely on and off the last 3 years and he has always pushed me to stop because it takes away from the other tasks-- caring for the kid(s), preparing meals, etc.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> Thx, I didn’t look carefully at the ages.
> 
> OP, will you return to work after they get school age? I am a single man and it’s tough having all the financial responsibility and no backup from a partner. You never said what comment you made that bothered him. Why not? Is it a secret? Did I miss that too?
> 
> I wonder if a massage after work and a calm talk about what’s bothering both of you is a solution? Any other problems in the marriage? Do you spend a lot of money, or are you frugal?


He was talking about work and business trips and only having one solid suit/outfit for trips and I said that he needs more. He took it in a me poking fun in some way and I meant it in a you should be spending more on yourself. We were took rather tipsy and are both pretty sensitive ppl.

I plan on going back to work when the kids are in school. We are debating homeschooling butif he continues to feel this way then I would probably decided against it and to go back to work. As I mentioned to another poster... I've tried working remotely on and off the last 3 years and each time he tells me I should stop because it takes away from other tasks and puts unnecessary stress on me. He is a great husband but clearly there is resentment... which I'm understanding may just be part of having a stay at home partner. 🤷🏻‍♀️


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Kecaj27 said:


> He was talking about work and business trips and only having one solid suit/outfit for trips and I said that he needs more. He took it in a me poking fun in some way and I meant it in a you should be spending more on yourself. We were took rather tipsy and are both pretty sensitive ppl.
> 
> I plan on going back to work when the kids are in school. We are debating homeschooling butif he continues to feel this way then I would probably decided against it and to go back to work. As I mentioned to another poster... I've tried working remotely on and off the last 3 years and each time he tells me I should stop because it takes away from other tasks and puts unnecessary stress on me. He is a great husband but clearly there is resentment... which I'm understanding may just be part of having a stay at home partner. 🤷🏻‍♀️


Oh and I do spend money on the kids. We have a budget laid out though and things are accounted for.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Sometimes I feel like she has it easy, even though I know she doesn't (and I work from home as well). Some of it is financial, even though we are well off and do not need her working. Yet, in my mind, if we could have more money or be further ahead why shouldn't we? Especially when I start thinking about retirement, college x6, what if's like being laid off, my demise, etc. If she was working most or all of her paycheck would go to childcare anyway though. I also don't want strangers raising my kids, especially when unnecessary. Her working was also harder on the marriage and the kids. So it just wouldn't be worth it and sometimes I have to remind myself of that. She isn't a spender at all and is on the frugal side, so there isn't any resentment there.
> 
> I know that SAHM's are often underappreciated. I try to tell her every day that I appreciate her, especially when she goes above and beyond my "expectations" (I don't like wording it that way). She is trying to be better about accepting that appreciation and not get defensive or rolling her eyes. It's easy to have unrealistic expectations and I definitely used to.
> 
> ...


I'm expected to keep the house mostly tidy but understandable if it gets away from me now and again. Take care of the kids, errands like grocery shopping and meal prep, having dinner taken care of and options available for lunch... he appreciates that I stay in shape but has always made comments about the desire for me to to avoid losing interest and attributes staying in shape to a long (happy) marriage. We also are wrapping up a house remodel and I've been expected to manage the majority of it.

Today I actually apologized for taking him for granted because I am not vocal with my appreciation and during the remodel we definitely went over budget because of my choices-- we are financially able to handle it without issue but I understand the stress it caused and how that can be seen as being ungrateful. He replied with a simple "ok" and when I pressed for more he went on telling me that I was doing enough-- mainly focused on the house not being kept clean enough. I have a history of being messy but since we moved have been pretty on top of it. Somethings have sat around as we haven't had closets until this past week and my hands have been full putting together our girls playroom. (We moved into a new house about 6 weeks ago and it's been on and off a construction zone). His response caused a big argument where I told him I felt his expectations were unreasonable and he told me I don't do anything to contribute and I have help-- we have a weekly house keeper and my older daughter (3) goes to an art program without me for a few hours twice a week. He said I don't clean at all (which aside from deep cleaning the bathrooms is completely false), the only thing I do to contribute is cook. I suggested me going back to work if this isn't working and he literally laughed and said, and do what?That I haven't worked in years and wouldn't make enough to cover child care. He then suggested I spot taking my daughter to her program and fire the cleaner. Saying what I do is so easy.

I also failed to mention that during our dinner when we were trying to shake off our fight we were talking about a couple nearby where the man was 20 or more years senior than his date. As they left he said "well if this doesn't work out I could always date someone 20 years younger". So now I can't stop thinking how he clearly things I'm useless, contribute nothing and can be replaced by a much younger option. A little dramatic maybe, but works have power.
This is out of character BTW. The name calling, outside of a major argument in private, and speaking about it not working in any capacity has never happened.


----------



## SnakePlissken (10 mo ago)

It sounds like your husband has more than a bit of resentment toward you to work through. He may be taking the untidy (sounds like his opinion at this point I'm not there to judge) house as a lack of love/respect for him. It doesn't excuse the name calling one bit by the way. I find that very concerning for you two. Since you say this is something new, I'm going to assume he isn't a mean man. 

As a younger man, I also took it personally when my stay at home wife didn't clean the house and it made me think that she didn't care about my feelings and therefore didn't love me. It might sound silly to you (it sounds silly to me typing it) doesn't change it is how I felt. It is still how I would feel, if the situation were the same. I also started to build resentment toward my wife thinking she sat around doing jack all day. It was not the case at all she was taking care of two children that were the exact same age as yours. We are also both sensitive people and were horrid communicators and that compounded our problems at the time. Something we have (mostly) moved past. I hope this perspective helps you see what *could* (key word is *could*) be what is going through his head.

What are your husbands expectations? 

What about them is unreasonable to you? Edited to add - they could be very unreasonable seeking additional information to help.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Kecaj27 said:


> I cook 2-3 meals a day, maintain the house and homeschool our kids, all the while staying rather fit-- which is not easy!


Your H needs to realize that you have a) the more IMPORTANT job -- you are guiding your kids to be good people, and b) it is 24x7. His work is also important -- to support your family. HE may go to work, but you work also.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> yes, but calling your wife a spoilt little b!tch? I would have punched him in the face...


Yeah, maybe I’d be considered immature as I get that both the champagne and resentment were flowing but if my husband were to call me that I could imagine simply getting up and leaving in a taxi. We don’t name call like that.

If it was ‘I feel you’re acting spoiled..’ that kind of thing, to me, could be talked through. Call me a beotch though? I’m out. Everyone’s different, that’s just how I’m wired.

Other than name calling, there’s opportunity here to have a discussion of where you’re both at, and perhaps what you need from one another.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Kecaj27 said:


> I also failed to mention that during our dinner when we were trying to shake off our fight we were talking about a couple nearby where the man was 20 or more years senior than his date. As they left he said "well if this doesn't work out I could always date someone 20 years younger". So now I can't stop thinking how he clearly things I'm useless, contribute nothing and can be replaced by a much younger option. A little dramatic maybe, but works have power.
> This is out of character BTW. The name calling, outside of a major argument in private, and speaking about it not working in any capacity has never happened.


You wrote ‘a little dramatic maybe’ about how his words have impacted your self-concept… gotta tell you, if I were in your shoes I’d be dramatic in a different way which would be telling him to go right ahead then. Granted, that’s a combative position to take and I know we’re only receiving your perspective, but that kind of ugliness disgusts me.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Kecaj27 said:


> I'm struggling with even looking at him without hurt and anger.
> Is his behavior normal? Is it ok? Should I be lax about it and let it go?


To answer your question, it wouldn’t be okay and/or normal with me.

Where to from here could be having a blunt conversation about what happened. Maybe start with parameters of mutual agreement, if possible, that neither will name-call and each will listen to the other. If you have a chance of a continued marriage, resentment has no place, therefore really listening and expressing to one another may be a starting point. It may get icky in terms of hurt emotions, yet that doesn’t need to equate to intentionally hurting one another.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Sorry, I ought to have read more thoroughly in order to avoid multiple posts. So you had another argument whereby you feel his expectations of you are unrealistic and that he feels you could contribute more. This is a tough one and beyond my pay-grade, however, is there any validity in what he’s suggesting of his expectations of you? I know that you expressed his expectations are unrealistic, and maybe they are (and I recognize that you feel discounted in certain things you bring to the partnership), however, if you were to ‘disarm’ do you really feel his expectations are unrealistic or was that defensiveness? I have no idea or judgement either way. Just asking.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kecaj27 said:


> I'm expected to keep the house mostly tidy but understandable if it gets away from me now and again. Take care of the kids, errands like grocery shopping and meal prep, having dinner taken care of and options available for lunch... he appreciates that I stay in shape but has always made comments about the desire for me to to avoid losing interest and attributes staying in shape to a long (happy) marriage. We also are wrapping up a house remodel and I've been expected to manage the majority of it.
> 
> Today I actually apologized for taking him for granted because I am not vocal with my appreciation and during the remodel we definitely went over budget because of my choices-- we are financially able to handle it without issue but I understand the stress it caused and how that can be seen as being ungrateful. He replied with a simple "ok" and when I pressed for more he went on telling me that I was doing enough-- mainly focused on the house not being kept clean enough. I have a history of being messy but since we moved have been pretty on top of it. Somethings have sat around as we haven't had closets until this past week and my hands have been full putting together our girls playroom. (We moved into a new house about 6 weeks ago and it's been on and off a construction zone). His response caused a big argument where I told him I felt his expectations were unreasonable and he told me I don't do anything to contribute and I have help-- we have a weekly house keeper and my older daughter (3) goes to an art program without me for a few hours twice a week. He said I don't clean at all (which aside from deep cleaning the bathrooms is completely false), the only thing I do to contribute is cook. I suggested me going back to work if this isn't working and he literally laughed and said, and do what?That I haven't worked in years and wouldn't make enough to cover child care. He then suggested I spot taking my daughter to her program and fire the cleaner. Saying what I do is so easy.
> 
> ...


This is terrible stuff. No way to treat your wife. I'm afraid you married a bully POS.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

My wife and I often read these threads/posts together...... It's extremely clear that he is resentful and feels like you are just lazy. But I am going to let my wife say something here.

Honey, you know darn well you are just sitting around doing nothing most everyday and he knows it to. There ain't no reason why a stay at home wife cannot keep a spotless home and have meals prepared for the family everyday without hired help. I was a stay at home mom for the first 8 years. I would get up in the morning and prepare a breakfast which would take 30 minutes max if it wasn't just cereal. Afterwards was about an hour of running dishes, straightening up, laundry load, and light cleaning. Make it two hours on weeks where I would clean the bathrooms and mop the floors. Taking the kid to the park, afternoon nap and playtime was simple. Dinner isn't much harder either. I still had hours of free time to sit around and do whatever. And I will admit what most women won't. It's really easy to make it sound like being a stay at home mom is a chaotic and exhausting job. But it's not really hard or chaotic at all. Write down a daily list of plans for chores, dinner, etc and quit making excuses.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> my kids aren't in school, they are 1 y/o and 3 y/o.
> My husband shared his work life with me daily. He is lucky enough to have a very secure job/career. I 100% understand there is stress being the sole breadwinner, but income isn't a concern. I have actually tried working remotely on and off the last 3 years and he has always pushed me to stop because it takes away from the other tasks-- caring for the kid(s), preparing meals, etc.


My first husband used to say to me that he much preferred to be out at work rather that work at home being a full time mum and homemaker with small children. He said my job was far harder and he couldn't do it. 
So don't let anyone make you think that caring for a baby and toddler and running the home isn't very hard work and not a 'real' job. It is!
Even if they are at school they have long holidays and are often off sick when they are young. So who looks after them then if you are at Work all day?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> My first husband used to say to me that he much preferred to be out at work rather that work at home being a full time mum and homemaker with small children. He said my job was far harder and he couldn't do it.
> So don't let anyone make you think that caring for a baby and toddler and running the home isn't very hard work and not a 'real' job. It is!
> Even if they are at school they have long holidays and are often off sick when they are young. So who looks after them then if you are at Work all day?


Totally agree... I have been a SAHD for a few months and it's the hardest job I have ever done in my life.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> My wife and I often read these threads/posts together...... It's extremely clear that he is resentful and feels like you are just lazy. But I am going to let my wife say something here.
> 
> Honey, you know darn well you are just sitting around doing nothing most everyday and he knows it to. There ain't no reason why a stay at home wife cannot keep a spotless home and have meals prepared for the family everyday without hired help. I was a stay at home mom for the first 8 years. I would get up in the morning and prepare a breakfast which would take 30 minutes max if it wasn't just cereal. Afterwards was about an hour of running dishes, straightening up, laundry load, and light cleaning. Make it two hours on weeks where I would clean the bathrooms and mop the floors. Taking the kid to the park, afternoon nap and playtime was simple. Dinner isn't much harder either. I still had hours of free time to sit around and do whatever. And I will admit what most women won't. It's really easy to make it sound like being a stay at home mom is a chaotic and exhausting job. But it's not really hard or chaotic at all. Write down a daily list of plans for chores, dinner, etc and quit making excuses.


Nice try...


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In Absentia said:


> Nice try...


That was honestly her words...... I was a stay at home dad myself for a while after she was recovering from surgery. It really isn't all that hard. I would pick that over my job any day of the week. Get up, breakfast, drop her off at school, load washer, dishwasher, little yard work, empty the Roomba, straightening up, and sitting down in front of the TV by noon and sooner most days because the outside doesn't need attention but once a week. Fire up the grill for some chicken or whatever while a side or two is on the stove

Not trying to be disrespectful, and yes I am being blunt. But come on, if you treat this as an actual job and can't keep on top of it...... 😂. Let's have a breakdown of what I did

Up at 6:15 and she gets dressed and eats pancakes/sausage/omelette or something similar by 6:40. We out the door and she is at school at 7:15

7:40 - 8:00 - I have dishwasher loaded and washing machine going along with Roomba emptied

8:00 - 9:00 got everything straightened up in the house, and beds made. Also done light cleaning including wiping counters, and sink. Spray down the shower with foaming cleaner and wipe toilet and vanity and dusting.

9:00-9:15 Dishwasher emptied and clothes in the dryer

Now between 9:15 to 2:00 I at some point make something easy for lunch, fold clothes, and watch TV or do whatever I want when she didn't need something. 

Pick her up from school and help with whatever homework she needed help with. I would cook dinner and then hours more of whatever I wanted.

I seriously wish I could be a full time stay at home dad. It was a vacation for me compared to meeting workplace metrics, demands, meetings, and dealing with office politics.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> Nice try...





ThatDarnGuy! said:


> My wife and I often read these threads/posts together...... It's extremely clear that he is resentful and feels like you are just lazy. But I am going to let my wife say something here.
> 
> Honey, you know darn well you are just sitting around doing nothing most everyday and he knows it to. There ain't no reason why a stay at home wife cannot keep a spotless home and have meals prepared for the family everyday without hired help. I was a stay at home mom for the first 8 years. I would get up in the morning and prepare a breakfast which would take 30 minutes max if it wasn't just cereal. Afterwards was about an hour of running dishes, straightening up, laundry load, and light cleaning. Make it two hours on weeks where I would clean the bathrooms and mop the floors. Taking the kid to the park, afternoon nap and playtime was simple. Dinner isn't much harder either. I still had hours of free time to sit around and do whatever. And I will admit what most women won't. It's really easy to make it sound like being a stay at home mom is a chaotic and exhausting job. But it's not really hard or chaotic at all. Write down a daily list of plans for chores, dinner, etc and quit making excuses.


I bought up three children and I just didn't didnt stop for many years. Even in the evenings I was busy. Preparing school lunches, tidying up, washing up, bath times, reading times, helping with homework, getting uniforms ready plus other stuff for school, sorting washing for the next day etc. I maybe had an hour or two in the evenings to relax and watch tv if I was lucky. 


I never ever just sat around unless I was playing with the children, doing colouring, playing games or painting or whatever.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> That was honestly her words...... I was a stay at home dad myself for a while after she was recovering from surgery. It really isn't all that hard. I would pick that over my job any day of the week. Get up, breakfast, drop her off at school, load washer, dishwasher, little yard work, empty the Roomba, straightening up, and sitting down in front of the TV by noon and sooner most days because the outside doesn't need attention but once a week. Fire up the grill for some chicken or whatever while a side or two is on the stove
> 
> Not trying to be disrespectful, and yes I am being blunt. But come on, if you treat this as an actual job and can't keep on top of it...... 😂. Let's have a breakdown of what I did
> 
> ...


You have any only one child it seems and you are talking about when she was at school. Somewhat different from 2 or 3 children under school age. A totally different story then.

Plus she appears to have a very long school day. There by 7.15? What time did she finish? Ours don't start till about 5 or 10 to 9 and finish by about 3. So a far far shorter day.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Diana7 said:


> You have any only one child it seems and you are talking about when she was at school. Somewhat different from 2 or 3 children under school age. A totally different story then.
> 
> Plus she appears to have a very long school day. There by 7.15? What time did she finish? Ours don't start till about 5 or 10 to 9 and finish by about 3. So a far far shorter day.


I will agree with you that children out of school would add to the workload. Her school day was intake at 7:25 and dismissal was 2:20 and I thought that was a long day as well. But both my wife and I feel the OP has a resentful husband. She has hired help and we both feel there should be no excuses. I mean she could drop the hired help and put them in daycare for 4-5 hours a day which would give ample time for the house and free time.

But I feel the same way towards a lot of guys as well. You hear guys saying I am so overwhelmed with working 60 hours a week, yard work, house repairs, honey do lists, and I just never have any time for myself..... I am thinking if you work so much, then hire a lawn care service. And if you have to make home repairs every week, then maybe it's time to move into a home that isn't in such disrepair 😆. Also be realistic with your wife and say I can only do so much.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I will agree with you that children out of school would add to the workload. Her school day was intake at 7:25 and dismissal was 2:20 and I thought that was a long day as well. But both my wife and I feel the OP has a resentful husband. She has hired help and we both feel there should be no excuses. I mean she could drop the hired help and put them in daycare for 4-5 hours a day which would give ample time for the house and free time.
> 
> But I feel the same way towards a lot of guys as well. You hear guys saying I am so overwhelmed with working 60 hours a week, yard work, house repairs, honey do lists, and I just never have any time for myself..... I am thinking if you work so much, then hire a lawn care service. And if you have to make home repairs every week, then maybe it's time to move into a home that isn't in such disrepair 😆. Also be realistic with your wife and say I can only do so much.


2 children, 1 and 3, and not in school... you have to look after them ALL the time, plus stay on top of the chores and cook for everybody. A walk in the park, I would say. Then the husband comes home and think she's been doing nothing because the house is not perfect. And then he will want sex after being an asshole.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In Absentia said:


> 2 children, 1 and 3, and not in school... you have to look after them ALL the time, plus stay on top of the chores and cook for everybody. A walk in the park, I would say. Then the husband comes home and think she's been doing nothing because the house is not perfect. And then he will want sex after being an asshole.





In Absentia said:


> 2 children, 1 and 3, and not in school... you have to look after them ALL the time, plus stay on top of the chores and cook for everybody. A walk in the park, I would say. Then the husband comes home and think she's been doing nothing because the house is not perfect. And then he will want sex after being an asshole.


My mom did it as she was a stay at home mom. It was my sister and I. The house stayed clean and meals everyday. My sister in-law has a two year old and works from home while maintaining the house.

My niece is in her mid 20s with two kids not yet in school. She maintains her home while taking online classes. I am also sure there are many mom's here who balance children, schooling, a career and marriage.

None of them have hired help.... My point is that it is absolutely doable.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I can fully understand that you think it best to be a full time mum,(although not quite sure what home schooling you need to do with a baby and a toddler), but you guys need to sit down when you are both calm and not been drinking and talk this through.
> Sounds as if you both has a bit too much to drink which is usually a bad idea.


We started by 6 months with all three of our kids. Blocks, shapes, colors, letters, numbers and animals. Our daughter was putting words together when she was 1. We never baby talked with our kids.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

My sister’s first husband was like yours. He never was able to see everything a stay at home mom has to do.

About five years ago he apologized for the way he treated her. They have been good at co-parenting.

I would suggest marriage counseling. Also, start looking for a job.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> My mom did it as she was a stay at home mom. It was my sister and I. The house stayed clean and meals everyday. My sister in-law has a two year old and works from home while maintaining the house.
> 
> My niece is in her mid 20s with two kids not yet in school. She maintains her home while taking online classes. I am also sure there are many mom's here who balance children, schooling, a career and marriage.
> 
> None of them have hired help.... My point is that it is absolutely doable.


Who's saying it's not doable? I'm just saying the husband should cut her a bit of slack instead of complaining...


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

You hit the nail on the head-- he takes the untidiness as a lack of respect and me not caring about his feelings. I understand that if you ask your SO to not to do something or to do something because it's meaningful to you and it's not done then your feelings are hurt, I just feel it's a bit extreme.

I listed the expectations in the post above this one.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I will agree with you that children out of school would add to the workload. Her school day was intake at 7:25 and dismissal was 2:20 and I thought that was a long day as well. But both my wife and I feel the OP has a resentful husband. She has hired help and we both feel there should be no excuses. I mean she could drop the hired help and put them in daycare for 4-5 hours a day which would give ample time for the house and free time.
> 
> But I feel the same way towards a lot of guys as well. You hear guys saying I am so overwhelmed with working 60 hours a week, yard work, house repairs, honey do lists, and I just never have any time for myself..... I am thinking if you work so much, then hire a lawn care service. And if you have to make home repairs every week, then maybe it's time to move into a home that isn't in such disrepair 😆. Also be realistic with your wife and say I can only do so much.


If I wasn't working I wouldnt use day care as that seems lazy but I know some do.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

heartsbeating said:


> Yeah, maybe I’d be considered immature as I get that both the champagne and resentment were flowing but if my husband were to call me that I could imagine simply getting up and leaving in a taxi. We don’t name call like that.
> 
> If it was ‘I feel you’re acting spoiled..’ that kind of thing, to me, could be talked through. Call me a beotch though? I’m out. Everyone’s different, that’s just how I’m wired.
> 
> Other than name calling, there’s opportunity here to have a discussion of where you’re both at, and perhaps what you need from one another.


Agreed. We talked (fought) a bunch last night and I clearly told him, no matter his trigger or feelings towards being left in public-- he is name calls like that I'm walking away.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In Absentia said:


> Who's saying it's not doable? I'm just saying the husband should cut her a bit of slack instead of complaining...


The way the husband is talking to her is unacceptable. But that is a symptom of a much bigger issue here of his growing resentment. I think they should both have a civil discussion to lay out expectations for who does what. Maybe even spend a weekend working together to get everything in the house completely done to start off.

But I believe that a stay at home parent whether dad or mom should not have any issues keeping up a home with one or two children. Yes, there can be exceptions with disabilities or something of that nature. But I absolutely would love to be able to be a full time stay at home dad again. I actually felt down when it was time to go back to work.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> My mom did it as she was a stay at home mom. It was my sister and I. The house stayed clean and meals everyday. My sister in-law has a two year old and works from home while maintaining the house.
> 
> My niece is in her mid 20s with two kids not yet in school. She maintains her home while taking online classes. I am also sure there are many mom's here who balance children, schooling, a career and marriage.
> 
> None of them have hired help.... My point is that it is absolutely doable.


Maybe for some. With three children I definitely wouldn't have had time to study or work as well unless I paid for childcare or had willing relatives nearby which I didn't.
Who looks after the 2 year old while your SIL works?


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

heartsbeating said:


> Sorry, I ought to have read more thoroughly in order to avoid multiple posts. So you had another argument whereby you feel his expectations of you are unrealistic and that he feels you could contribute more. This is a tough one and beyond my pay-grade, however, is there any validity in what he’s suggesting of his expectations of you? I know that you expressed his expectations are unrealistic, and maybe they are (and I recognize that you feel discounted in certain things you bring to the partnership), however, if you were to ‘disarm’ do you really feel his expectations are unrealistic or was that defensiveness? I have no idea or judgement either way. Just asking.


I don't feel like the majorities of them are... it's mainly the degree in which he is hurt/angered from something being left out or untidy. It'll be clothes on the sink an hour after I showered or a pile of laundry not folded and he flips. Mind you the rest of the home would be clean. So it's really the lack of understanding and tolerance to mild messes. Having the house keeper weekly for deep cleans and being able to have a few hours of the toddler having an activity is very generous and makes the takes not unreasonable.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> My wife and I often read these threads/posts together...... It's extremely clear that he is resentful and feels like you are just lazy. But I am going to let my wife say something here.
> 
> Honey, you know darn well you are just sitting around doing nothing most everyday and he knows it to. There ain't no reason why a stay at home wife cannot keep a spotless home and have meals prepared for the family everyday without hired help. I was a stay at home mom for the first 8 years. I would get up in the morning and prepare a breakfast which would take 30 minutes max if it wasn't just cereal. Afterwards was about an hour of running dishes, straightening up, laundry load, and light cleaning. Make it two hours on weeks where I would clean the bathrooms and mop the floors. Taking the kid to the park, afternoon nap and playtime was simple. Dinner isn't much harder either. I still had hours of free time to sit around and do whatever. And I will admit what most women won't. It's really easy to make it sound like being a stay at home mom is a chaotic and exhausting job. But it's not really hard or chaotic at all. Write down a daily list of plans for chores, dinner, etc and quit making excuses.


Maybe I'm just more hands on with my kids? Maybe my kids are needy? Maybe my house is bigger... I can't really make a comparison of what you're capable of without knowing your circumstance. 1 kid is definitely different the 2, so not sure how many you had.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> My mom did it as she was a stay at home mom. It was my sister and I. The house stayed clean and meals everyday. My sister in-law has a two year old and works from home while maintaining the house.
> 
> My niece is in her mid 20s with two kids not yet in school. She maintains her home while taking online classes. I am also sure there are many mom's here who balance children, schooling, a career and marriage.
> 
> None of them have hired help.... My point is that it is absolutely doable.


Tell your wife (or yourself) that you are welcome to come over, be a SAHP, and keep my house spotless - while properly looking after my children and with no hired or outside help.

Here's your schedule for today:

*5:00am *- 6 month old morning bird wakes up.
*5:00-5:30am* - 6 month olds morning routine of sitting on the potty, having a bottle, getting cleaned up and changed.
*5:30am* - start/switch over laundry, we have two sets of washers/dryers and they both run once a day
*5:35am *- pack lunches for 3 kids, no garbage foods, all fresh and cut into fun shapes for one of the kids; at the same time start prepping breakfast for 6 month old
*5:50-6:20am *- feed 6 month old breakfast, we do babyled weaning so this is very messy = lots of highchair, floor, and baby cleanup
*6:30am* - 6 month needs a bottle
*7:00am* - 6 month old goes down for nap #1
*7:05am* - Wake up 5, 11, and 13 year olds.
*7:10-8:00am -* Make breakfast for the 5, 11, and 13 year old, then remind them a dozen times to eat. Listening to moaning and complaining for the next hour, stop siblings from annoying each other by looking out "their window". Make sure everyone gets dressed, mainly the 5 year old who needs about 10 reminders, then convince him to brush his teeth.
*8:00-8:10am* - 6 month old wakes up from nap #1. 16 month old needs to be woken up as well. They both need to be changed, have potty time, and get dressed for the day. Good luck, the 16 month old rolls around like a crocodile if not allowed to self-dress (but you don't have time for that).
*8:10am* - Get all 5 kids (who dont want to go) into the car. You have to get 3 kids to two different schools, both with a start time of 8:30. I work early today, so I can't drop off and the 5 and 11 can't walk alone in the morning.
*8:35-9:20am* - morning snack for 6m and 16m. Again, 6m will be very messy. 16m helps prep his own snacks and meals = very messy. He helps clean up after but this is more time consuming.
*9:20-10:00am* - Walk and park, dog goes as well.
*10:00am* - 6m needs a bottle
*10:20am* - 6m goes down for nap #2
*10:20-12:00pm* - Individual time with 16m, also need to start prepping lunch
*12:00pm* - 6m wakes up from nap #2
*12:00-12:30pm* - postnap routine of potty, change, bottle
*12:30-1:00pm* - lunch for 16m, 6m isn't hungry yet; Remember, very messy
*1:00pm* - 16m goes down for a nap, he hates sleep so it will take a while to get him down
*1:30pm* - lunch for 6m old and individual time with 6m.
*2:10pm* - 6m needs a bottle
*2:20pm* - 6m goes down for nap #3; you have a choice: take a quick nap because you are absolutely exhausted, or be a grump the rest of the day
*2:55pm* - wake up 6m and 16m from naps and rush out the door because you need to pick up the 13 year old from school. The 5 and 11 year old will walk home together.
*3:20pm* - afternoon snack for all the kids, then remind older kids about their chores
*4:00/4:30pm* - start dinner and prepare it alone, because that is expected of a SAHM. The 6m and 16m are cranky now and not easily entertained by the big kids. It's Monday so the 5y is helping with dinner and requires supervision.
*5:20pm* - 6m needs a bottle
*5:30pm* - 6m goes to bed for the night.
*5:30-8:00pm* - You have to choose, nap/go to bed, spend quality time with the kids/spouse you haven't seen all day, or clean.
*8:15-9:00pm* - 16m and 5y need to get ready for bed. Potty, bath, potty again, teeth brushed, changed, meds, etc. Your spouse would do this but you prefer doing it yourself most nights, given all the SAHM guilt.
*9:00-10:00pm *- 16m will probably be fighting sleep and we don't abandon our kids so you will need to stay with him until he's asleep. If you get too frustrated, your spouse takes over.
*10:00pm* - ideally all the kids are in bed (but this isn’t an ideal world).

And that's a good day, where both little ones take proper naps and aren't cranky and losing their **** all day. Crap naps, sleep regressions, butt rashes, sniffles, etc. are frequent and will all ruin your day - for many days in a row. It's also a day where the 16 month old didn't take a crap in your shoe (true story) and the kids don't have dance, gymnastics, musical theater, karate, piano, violin, swim, physical therapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy and behavioral therapy, and need to be in three different places at once.

You have 3,700 sq feet to clean, not including the finished basement and garage which is about another 2,600 square feet. It has 6 bedrooms, 6 full bathrooms. The 5y, 11y, and 13y clean their own bedrooms and bathrooms, but let's be real, that's not a spotless house so you still have work to do there. You can only do one bedroom and two bathrooms while the kids are sleeping. The big kids also have chores but nothing loud can be done after 5:30pm because it wakes the 6 month old, if her routine gets thrown off it's hell so you don't want that. There are 3 shedding pets in the house and the roombas don't get everything, but you also don't vacuum much while your spouse is working from home or baby is sleeping. Throughout the day you have many potty times with the 16 month old and multiple spit ups from the 6 month old, which takes away from the few minutes you get here and there to clean up. You really don't get to sit down at all, unless it's while doing an activity with the kids. 6 month old sleeps through the night but 16 month old does not - which means neither do you.

Good luck.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ABHale said:


> We started by 6 months with all three of our kids. Blocks, shapes, colors, letters, numbers and animals. Our daughter was putting words together when she was 1. We never baby talked with our kids.


I don't call that home schooling, I call that play. Learning through play. I see home schooling as a structured day for learning when they reach school age.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Kecaj27 said:


> I don't feel like the majorities of them are... it's mainly the degree in which he is hurt/angered from something being left out or untidy. It'll be clothes on the sink an hour after I showered or a pile of laundry not folded and he flips. Mind you the rest of the home would be clean. So it's really the lack of understanding and tolerance to mild messes. Having the house keeper weekly for deep cleans and being able to have a few hours of the toddler having an activity is very generous and makes the takes not unreasonable.


That is what he is flipping out about? 😳😳😳 Tell that guy to get over himself and be thankful for a clean house..... That is absolutely NOTHING. What you are describing isn't even a mess. That is more like signs of a functioning home with people living there 

I admit I was overthinking this. I was imagining my friends wife. He works 7 in the morning to usually 6 in the evening. He comes home to dishes in sink, toys all over, dryer is full, washer is full, unfolded laundry piled in front of dryer, and her wanting to order delivery for dinner. She has every excuse in the world about how she tries so hard and is completely overwhelmed. But my wife says she is trying to chat with her on Facebook throughout the day about everything from what is on TV to hanging out.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> That is what he is flipping out about? 😳😳😳 Tell that guy to get over himself and be thankful for a clean house..... That is absolutely NOTHING. What you are describing isn't even a mess. That is more like signs of a functioning home with people living there


What do expect from a guy who calls his wife a spoilt b!tch?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Kecaj27 said:


> I don't feel like the majorities of them are... it's mainly the degree in which he is hurt/angered from something being left out or untidy. It'll be clothes on the sink an hour after I showered or a pile of laundry not folded and he flips. Mind you the rest of the home would be clean.


I feel sorry for you, to be honest...


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Moving can be very stressful, and reno's can definitely add to that stress. If these issues started recently, that may explain some of the out of the norm behavior from him. Flipping out over one or two things being out of place is too much though. 

What does your husband do around the house? What hours does he work? Is he a neat-freak or does he expect you to clean up his mess as well? 



> he appreciates that I stay in shape but has always made comments about the desire for me to to avoid losing interest and attributes staying in shape to a long (happy) marriage.


This rubs me the wrong way. Let's be honest, most of us don't want our spouse to get fat but it sounds like he's too fixated on it. There are other important things that lead to a long, happy marriage. Like not name-calling or threatening divorce, _proper communication_, and supporting your SAHM wife (that he wanted).



> during the remodel we definitely went over budget because of my choices-- we are financially able to handle it without issue but


Is that your opinion, or an opinion you both share?

You said earlier that you spend money on the kids, which is understandable obviously. I know you have a budget but does he agree with what you are spending the money on? For example, filling the house with too much "stuff", too many toys (Montessori materials are expensive), too much clothing or designer clothing? Too many shopping trips for you?

Some people here disagree with it but there is nothing wrong with your daughter going to some form of childcare for a few hours - _if _you can comfortably afford it. Have you asked your husband if he thinks you can afford the cleaner and childcare program? If he genuinely thinks it's not a good choice financially, that's a good reason to stop (but he needs to help out around the house).

His comment about you not being able to find a well-paying job isn't totally false. It may be difficult when the time comes. That could be a fear-based thing but he still shouldn't have said it that way. You could try having a conversation and asking if he wants you to start looking for a job, and taking it if the salary is enough. He may make some more snarky comments like "you won't be able to find something", and I'd just say "that's not what I asked, I asked IF I can find something acceptable, do you want me to go back to work?". And part of that conversation would be having a conversation about the new division of housework, childcare, errands, cooking, etc. being 50/50.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

For the lazy comments... 

7am awake and getting milk for toddler and nursing baby
7:20am get dressed and ready for day
7:30am cook breakfast and we eat
8:15am play with the baby and get my toddler on an activity 
9:00am put baby down for nap 
9:10am work on admin stuff (meal planning, ordering groceries, processing returns, phone calls for appointments or tasks my husband has asked me to handle, etc.) 
10:00am spend time with my toddler and set her up with another hands off activity.
10:30am wake up baby-- nurse 
10:45am snack time
11:15am park or group activity/play time
12:00/12:30 lunch time 
1:00/1:15 nap time for both girls-- one of which usually fights it till close to 2
1:30/2 clean up from lunch, clean up the kitchen in general, and put in laundry or switch it over if I put it in early, clean up the toys, activities from earlier in the day, maybe have 30 mins max of "free time" some may call it a lunch break? You know the state mandatory time where you get a moment to rest during a 12+ hour work day. 🙄 god forbid. But I guess this 30 mins will make me lazy?
3:00pm kids up, nurse baby
3:15/3:30 snack time
3:45 take the kids outside to play or playground if we didn't go earlier
4:30/5 kids home, I utilize 30 mins of tv for my toddler-- but baby is mostly on me or crawling around the house so needing constant minding. This is when I start dinner...
5:30/6 dinner is ready, we eat
6:30 we go on a family walk
7:00 bathtime
7:15 bedtime bottle for baby while my toddler runs around like a lunatic 
7:30 baby asleep, toddler has quiet time while I do dishes or laundry
8pm my toddler goes to bed, I work out
8:30pm clean the house, laundry, etc
9:30/9:45 stop everything to shower and get ready for bed.
10:00pm my husband and I watch 30-1 hour of tv and/or read.
11:00 sleep
To give credit where it's due, my husband will get breakfast started if the kids are being difficult, he will unload the dishwasher and helps with the 8;30pm clean up if he is home-- he goes to play basketball 1-2 times a week and has the occasional work gathering in the evenings.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

In Absentia said:


> What do expect from a guy who calls his wife a spoilt b!tch?


The only b!tch in this relationship is this guy and his Adrian Monk expectations..... I swear, if he asks for sex. Say I would, but I don't want to risk staining the sheets and listening to you squeal in anger.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

bobert said:


> Moving can be very stressful, and reno's can definitely add to that stress. If these issues started recently, that may explain some of the out of the norm behavior from him. Flipping out over one or two things being out of place is too much though.
> 
> What does your husband do around the house? What hours does he work? Is he a neat-freak or does he expect you to clean up his mess as well?
> 
> ...


I actually talk to him again last night about going back to work and he said he doesn't want that at all.

we can afford the cleaning and childcare services-- they are budgeted for and we are lucky to be very financially secure. The kids toys, etc are he always acts impressed by them but maybe I need to dig in there.

It really seems to come down to the cleaning... 🤷🏻‍♀️


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> For the lazy comments...
> 
> 7am awake and getting milk for toddler and nursing baby
> 7:20am get dressed and ready for day
> ...


Also it won't be long till the older child stops having a nap which will make it harder! In fact few 3 year olds still have one.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> I actually talk to him again last night about going back to work and he said he doesn't want that at all.
> 
> we can afford the cleaning and childcare services-- they are budgeted for and we are lucky to be very financially secure. The kids toys, etc are he always acts impressed by them but maybe I need to dig in there.
> 
> It really seems to come down to the cleaning... 🤷🏻‍♀️


What childcare services do you have if you don't work? 
You are blessed to have a cleaner though, never had one.


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Be prepared, Diana will try and make you feel like crap for using childcare. She told me that my wife shouldn't have kids if she can't look after them, because we had our (then 2 year old, with special needs) in daycare twice a week for 3 hours. 

If you and your husband agree that it's right for your family, ignore it.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

bobert said:


> Be prepared, Diana will try and make you feel like crap for using childcare. She told me that my wife shouldn't have kids if she can't look after them, because we had our (then 2 year old, with special needs) in daycare twice a week for 3 hours.
> 
> If you and your husband agree that it's right for your family, ignore it.


I don't think there is anything wrong with using childcare. It is extremely important to socialize children from 2-4 years old. My mother in law paid for our daughter to be in child care at those years. I hated it because of how often she got sick. She kept telling me to trust her and it will not only build her immune system, but socialize her ..... She was 100% correct on both.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

we used childcare after a while because I was going crazy and wanted a job with no kids!


----------



## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with using childcare. It is extremely important to socialize children from 2-4 years old. My mother in law paid for our daughter to be in child care at those years. I hated it because of how often she got sick. She kept telling me to trust her and it will not only build her immune system, but socialize her ..... She was 100% correct on both.


Parental sanity is also important. 

There are other ways to get socialization, for example my wife takes the kids to play groups, library, etc.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I will agree with you that children out of school would add to the workload. Her school day was intake at 7:25 and dismissal was 2:20 and I thought that was a long day as well. But both my wife and I feel the OP has a resentful husband. She has hired help and we both feel there should be no excuses. I mean she could drop the hired help and put them in daycare for 4-5 hours a day which would give ample time for the house and free time.
> 
> But I feel the same way towards a lot of guys as well. You hear guys saying I am so overwhelmed with working 60 hours a week, yard work, house repairs, honey do lists, and I just never have any time for myself..... I am thinking if you work so much, then hire a lawn care service. And if you have to make home repairs every week, then maybe it's time to move into a home that isn't in such disrepair 😆. Also be realistic with your wife and say I can only do so much.


Daycare is $1100 per month per child. My house keeper is $600. The whole point of me staying home is to raise our children, not to keep the house clean.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> Maybe I'm just more hands on with my kids? Maybe my kids are needy? Maybe my house is bigger... I can't really make a comparison of what you're capable of without knowing your circumstance. 1 kid is definitely different the 2, so not sure how many you had.


I think it’s like you said, you just moved in and remodeling. Now there is places to put the thing that were laying around. Don’t sweat it, from what you have said, your doing great. This is your husband’s problem to solve.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> That is what he is flipping out about? 😳😳😳 Tell that guy to get over himself and be thankful for a clean house..... That is absolutely NOTHING. What you are describing isn't even a mess. That is more like signs of a functioning home with people living there
> 
> I admit I was overthinking this. I was imagining my friends wife. He works 7 in the morning to usually 6 in the evening. He comes home to dishes in sink, toys all over, dryer is full, washer is full, unfolded laundry piled in front of dryer, and her wanting to order delivery for dinner. She has every excuse in the world about how she tries so hard and is completely overwhelmed. But my wife says she is trying to chat with her on Facebook throughout the day about everything from what is on TV to hanging out.


Yeah it's not like the house is a wreck or even a mess. At most laundry can pile up to a basket unfolded and mid day you may walk in to a kitchen destroyed, but that's taken care of by the end of the day. Just depends what the kids and I get into and how slammed our day ends up being. If one was in school then totally agree this wouldn't be some time consuming and those things wouldn't happen much if ever. This whole thing has me debating our thoughts on home schooling though. I can deal for the next couple years but I don't want to have these arguments over petty and minuscule things for the rest of our marriage. Trying to give some slack to him as we've been under a crazy amount of stress for the past year. Planning on a non-confrontational conversation and possibly therapy for our communication problems.


----------



## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Kecaj27 said:


> Yeah it's not like the house is a wreck or even a mess. At most laundry can pile up to a basket unfolded and mid day you may walk in to a kitchen destroyed, but that's taken care of by the end of the day. Just depends what the kids and I get into and how slammed our day ends up being. If one was in school then totally agree this wouldn't be some time consuming and those things wouldn't happen much if ever. This whole thing has me debating our thoughts on home schooling though. I can deal for the next couple years but I don't want to have these arguments over petty and minuscule things for the rest of our marriage. Trying to give some slack to him as we've been under a crazy amount of stress for the past year. Planning on a non-confrontational conversation and possibly therapy for our communication problems.


Ask him if he would be willing to talk to a counselor to evaluate him for OCD disorder. It's a form of anxiety that can absolutely cause agitation and anger in the person who is suffering. What you are describing is nothing unreasonable. 

My wife's grandmother is OCD in cleanliness. It's absolutely absurd to deal with her rules. Her own husband is not allowed to use the kitchen because he could make a mess. He is required to scrub clean the barbecue grill after each use. And if you eat a banana, you can't just throw the peel into the trash. You have to fold it in a napkin, place that into a Ziploc bag and put it into the freezer 🤣. It gets thrown in the trash can the night before trash day and she has him rinse out the can with soap and water after each trash day 😂


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I have been in homes where both parents were complete neat freaks. You couldn’t even tell they had kids. Needless to say we never did play dates for the kids at their home. There is a difference between being trashed/dirty and being lived in.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> I don't think there is anything wrong with using childcare. It is extremely important to socialize children from 2-4 years old. My mother in law paid for our daughter to be in child care at those years. I hated it because of how often she got sick. She kept telling me to trust her and it will not only build her immune system, but socialize her ..... She was 100% correct on both.


My children mixed with lots of others of their age when I met up with friends or groups of friends, and when they got to 3 they started preschool which was 2 or 3 mornings. I never used childcare as I didn't work at that time. As I was at home I didn't see the point of paying someone else to care for my children.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> Yeah it's not like the house is a wreck or even a mess. At most laundry can pile up to a basket unfolded and mid day you may walk in to a kitchen destroyed, but that's taken care of by the end of the day. Just depends what the kids and I get into and how slammed our day ends up being. If one was in school then totally agree this wouldn't be some time consuming and those things wouldn't happen much if ever. This whole thing has me debating our thoughts on home schooling though. I can deal for the next couple years but I don't want to have these arguments over petty and minuscule things for the rest of our marriage. Trying to give some slack to him as we've been under a crazy amount of stress for the past year. Planning on a non-confrontational conversation and possibly therapy for our communication problems.


My three all loved their primary school. I don't see the point in home schooling unless you live in the outback or wherever. It's good as they get to 5 or near 5 to spend that time with others of their own age and learn and play together. Some of my best days were with school friends.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> Daycare is $1100 per month per child. My house keeper is $600. The whole point of me staying home is to raise our children, not to keep the house clean.


Wow, how many hours does she work? I thought you meant she came in one morning a week or so.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> Daycare is $1100 per month per child. My house keeper is $600. The whole point of me staying home is to raise our children, not to keep the house clean.


Most mums do do both though. At least here in the UK. None of my friends had cleaners, even the ones working full time.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> we used childcare after a while because I was going crazy and wanted a job with no kids!


I didn't see the point as I was there to look after them.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Wow, how many hours does she work? I thought you meant she came in one morning a week or so.


She comes once a week, 9:30-2ish. She comes with her niece. Our home is 4 bedrooms, an office and playroom. About 3800 sq. ft.. she charges $150 per week.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

ThatDarnGuy! said:


> Ask him if he would be willing to talk to a counselor to evaluate him for OCD disorder. It's a form of anxiety that can absolutely cause agitation and anger in the person who is suffering. What you are describing is nothing unreasonable.
> 
> My wife's grandmother is OCD in cleanliness. It's absolutely absurd to deal with her rules. Her own husband is not allowed to use the kitchen because he could make a mess. He is required to scrub clean the barbecue grill after each use. And if you eat a banana, you can't just throw the peel into the trash. You have to fold it in a napkin, place that into a Ziploc bag and put it into the freezer 🤣. It gets thrown in the trash can the night before trash day and she has him rinse out the can with soap and water after each trash day 😂


Wowowow. That's bananas. Haha 

Seriously though-- it's interesting because I think it does trigger anxiety for him.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> She comes once a week, 9:30-2ish. She comes with her niece. Our home is 4 bedrooms, an office and playroom. About 3800 sq. ft.. she charges $150 per week.


Ok so between them they do 9 hours. That's a lot. It's hard to think what could take them all that time every week.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Kecaj27 said:


> She comes once a week, 9:30-2ish. She comes with her niece. Our home is 4 bedrooms, an office and playroom. About 3800 sq. ft.. she charges $150 per week.


Sounds reasonable to me. Our cleaner (who has a family member helper) is once a week from 1:00-4:00. Our house is about 3,600 sq. ft. and she charges $125 a week. It’s a tremendous help since everyone here is busy and I’m not able to keep up with all of it anymore.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Ok so between them they do 9 hours. That's a lot. It's hard to think what could take them all that time every week.


We have construction debris right now and she is trainingntbenother girl to work on her own. Shes been with us 3 weeks sonnot sure whag to expect moving forward. Here it is normal for 1 cleaner to work about 7 or 8 hours.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> Sounds reasonable to me. Our cleaner (who has a family member helper) is once a week from 1:00-4:00. Our house is about 3,600 sq. ft. and she charges $125 a week. It’s a tremendous help since everyone here is busy and I’m not able to keep up with all of it anymore.


Its super reasonable. I don't think her helper (her adult niece) is a permanent thing.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Kecaj27 said:


> Its super reasonable. I don't think her helper (her adult niece) is a permanent thing.


As long as we’ve used this cleaner, about ten years, she’s had a helper although it’s changed during that time as to which family member helps. I like that she does have a helper since she’s in and out quicker than when I used to have a cleaner with no helper. To me the cleaning process is endless (and thankless) — especially when you have children — and I prefer not dealing with it if I don’t need to. That’s why cleaners exist.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I didn't see the point as I was there to look after them.


Yes, I get it! I just found it too difficult at the end… I got a lot out of it but I was destroyed… 😊


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Kecaj27 said:


> We have construction debris right now and she is trainingntbenother girl to work on her own. Shes been with us 3 weeks sonnot sure whag to expect moving forward. Here it is normal for 1 cleaner to work about 7 or 8 hours.


Here it's more like 2 hours a week for a cleaner. Maybe 3 if you have a very large house. Sometimes its every other week. 
Obviously if they do more such as all the laundry and ironing, it's a bit longer.
I used to clean when my children were young. I did a 4 bed detached house plus about 30 mins of ironing in 2 hours. Thats why I couldn't understand what they did for 9 hours. Or even 4 or 5. 
I also cleaned a doctor's house. Same size, also 2 hours.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

@Diana7 This hyper-focus on the tasks and quantity of time of the cleaner comes across as nit-picky to me - and distracts from the communication / dynamic of the marriage and what OP is facing. Or perhaps I’m the one missing what is being conveyed through those details and questions about the cleaning support? Yet I don’t think so.

OP - it’s sounding like you’re keeping the discussion going with your husband and that’s really important.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> @Diana7 This hyper-focus on the tasks and quantity of time of the cleaner comes across as nit-picky to me - and distracts from the communication / dynamic of the marriage and what OP is facing.


It's just weird to me that it can take 9 hours every week to clean one 4 bed house. 
Oh well. 
She is however very blessed to have a cleaner. Most dont.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> It's just weird to me that it can take 9 hours every week to clean one 4 bed house.
> Oh well.
> She is however very blessed to have a cleaner. Most dont.


Okay, it’s weird to you. Not to her. Can we move on from that point to further support OP?


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

It doesn't sound like your husband has much respect for you. Using names like that, especially in public, is not something that spouses do to each other.

Walking out of a restaurant on someone also sucks, but I think it was well deserved in your case.

Did he ever apologize for what he called you?

There is a saying that the spouse who cares the least (about the relationship) has the power. For him to say so many negative things about you, in a non-constructive manner, is him showing he doesn't really care... especially with the comment about dating someone 20 years younger.

You need to flip the script and care the least to regain some balance.

If someone is going to treat you like that over minor items, they can kick rocks....


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Kecaj27 said:


> Yeah it's not like the house is a wreck or even a mess. At most laundry can pile up to a basket unfolded and mid day you may walk in to a kitchen destroyed, but that's taken care of by the end of the day. Just depends what the kids and I get into and how slammed our day ends up being. If one was in school then totally agree this wouldn't be some time consuming and those things wouldn't happen much if ever. This whole thing has me debating our thoughts on home schooling though. I can deal for the next couple years but I don't want to have these arguments over petty and minuscule things for the rest of our marriage. Trying to give some slack to him as we've been under a crazy amount of stress for the past year. Planning on a non-confrontational conversation and possibly therapy for our communication problems.


I was thinking of your thread. Terming this as petty and minuscule things misses the mark. It's these very things that are a constant navigation throughout a relationship. You mentioned it is just about the cleaning that he has issue with. My suggestion, now that my annoyance on your behalf has dissipated, would be to concisely summarize back to him what his issues/complaints are. Done in a way that is void of annoyance, and from a place to understand. It helps to build trust to know that our spouse has understanding and may swiftly get to the crux of the issues. At that point, you're just ensuring that you have fully understood what he has expressed. The intention is to understand, and to ensure that you are on the same page of what is being discussed. That unto itself may just be a starting point - to then work out together what and how these things can reasonably occur. Given that he has instigated bringing up a sense of frustration, is why I suggest to first understand from his perspective by reflecting it back to him in this summarized way. Language is ambiguous and so this may frame mutual understanding. Note, I'm not suggesting that you agree with what he is expressing; rather, simply first aiming to ensure that he is heard and understood. To emphasize, just as a starting point to disarm.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> Your H needs to realize that you have a) the more IMPORTANT job -- you are guiding your kids to be good people, and b) it is 24x7. His work is also important -- to support your family. HE may go to work, but you work also.


While there are other serious issues here with her husband, in a general response to this...

No, actually, her job is not more important. Pragmatically speaking, in the stay at home parent/spouse dynamic, the working spouse has the more important job. Literally the entire dynamic depends on that job. The stay at home parent would not be able to do their job without the income of the working parent.

While the importance of the stay at home parent should not be minimized, all too often, as exampled by this very comment, the stay at home parent is societally exalted to a point where the working parents contribution is dismissed as part of the dynamic, and resentment is practically built into the dynamic. And even when there is recognition of the working parent, it is almost always given as a dismissive afterthought.

This right here is why, especially in todays social media and echo chamber driven world, that this dynamic is extremely difficult to maintain, and often causes irreparable harm to the marriage. Not many people can actually pull off this dynamic over the long term.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> While there are other serious issues here with her husband, in a general response to this...
> 
> No, actually, her job is not more important. Pragmatically speaking, in the stay at home parent/spouse dynamic, the working spouse has the more important job. Literally the entire dynamic depends on that job. The stay at home parent would not be able to do their job without the income of the working parent.
> 
> ...


You can change your job, but you can't change your kids after you've messed them up.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> While there are other serious issues here with her husband, in a general response to this...
> 
> No, actually, her job is not more important. Pragmatically speaking, in the stay at home parent/spouse dynamic, the working spouse has the more important job. Literally the entire dynamic depends on that job. The stay at home parent would not be able to do their job without the income of the working parent.
> 
> ...


Both are equally vital. One job paid and one unpaid, but bringing up children is mega important.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Both are equally vital. One job paid and one unpaid, but bringing up children is mega important.


Well sure, both are important, and from an emotional appeal standpoint, the stay at home parent is almost always the one who gets the attention and support, but that still does not change the fact that from an objective, unemotional, standpoint, the stay at home parent could not do their job, they wouldn't even have the opportunity to be a stay at home parent, without the job, what ever job, the working parent has.

Working spouses in this dynamic are routinely, and unapologetically taken for granted and dismissed from outside the relationship, it is in full display right here on this thread, and it is very common for that to creep into the relationship as well.

As to the specifics of the OP's situation, her husband seems to be very unreasonable, and is completely out of order. There is never an excuse for that kind of name calling. End of.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> It's just weird to me that it can take 9 hours every week to clean one 4 bed house.
> Oh well.
> She is however very blessed to have a cleaner. Most dont.


Depends on how deep they clean. I will spent the whole of a day really cleaning the kitchen. Frig and range pulled from the walls and cleaned from inside out.

Or 

30 mins wiping everything down.

Saturday morning was cleaning day. Got the kids in the routine of cleaning the common areas, their bathroom and rooms. They have always done their part on things I have had them doing.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Yes but you don't need to do those things weekly!


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

To be honest, I would prefer well adjusted kids to a spotless house. But we are all different.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

samyeagar said:


> the stay at home parent is almost always the one who gets the attention and support


There are MANY SAH parents who DO NOT get attention and support. Look on this forum. How many times have you seen "WHY isn't the house clean. What do you do all day long. I'm out working my ass off and all you have to do is take care of the house and kids..."
TONS.

Of course the working parent's job is important -- as I said, their job is to support the family.
There are just too many times where the SAH parent is minimized or ignored as not being as important as someone who goes to work.

The repercussions of them messing up the kids is WAY more important than if you miss a deadline at work.


----------



## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

Kecaj27 said:


> Tonight was my 5 year wedding anniversary. It started off great. A friend watched our two kids and we got to enjoy a few glasses of some delicious champagne, exchanged cards and gifts and then went off to dinner. Dinner started off well, but a comment was made by my husband, basically making a joke about me being intoxicated when I thought I being thoughtful. It came out later that he felt what I said was rude-- so we were both being sensitive. Complicated for something petty on both our parts.
> 
> The real issue for me is these things resulted in him saying I was "ungrateful", followed by saying I was a "spoiled little ***". I proceeded to excuse myself and step outside which is all he could focus in the remainder of the evening.
> 
> ...


Sounds like he's a narcissist. Nip it in the bud now. Shame on him ruining your Beth's night.
Teach him his error that behavior is not tolerate


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

David60525 said:


> Sounds like he's a narcissist. Nip it in the bud now. Shame on him ruining your Beth's night.
> Teach him his error that behavior is not tolerate


Uh, what?


----------



## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Op are you still here?


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

heartsbeating said:


> I was thinking of your thread. Terming this as petty and minuscule things misses the mark. It's these very things that are a constant navigation throughout a relationship. You mentioned it is just about the cleaning that he has issue with. My suggestion, now that my annoyance on your behalf has dissipated, would be to concisely summarize back to him what his issues/complaints are. Done in a way that is void of annoyance, and from a place to understand. It helps to build trust to know that our spouse has understanding and may swiftly get to the crux of the issues. At that point, you're just ensuring that you have fully understood what he has expressed. The intention is to understand, and to ensure that you are on the same page of what is being discussed. That unto itself may just be a starting point - to then work out together what and how these things can reasonably occur. Given that he has instigated bringing up a sense of frustration, is why I suggest to first understand from his perspective by reflecting it back to him in this summarized way. Language is ambiguous and so this may frame mutual understanding. Note, I'm not suggesting that you agree with what he is expressing; rather, simply first aiming to ensure that he is heard and understood. To emphasize, just as a starting point to disarm.


This is a really great and thoughtful response. Thank you! I'd really love to hear your thoughts on my recent post.


----------



## Kecaj27 (10 mo ago)

samyeagar said:


> Well sure, both are important, and from an emotional appeal standpoint, the stay at home parent is almost always the one who gets the attention and support, but that still does not change the fact that from an objective, unemotional, standpoint, the stay at home parent could not do their job, they wouldn't even have the opportunity to be a stay at home parent, without the job, what ever job, the working parent has.
> 
> Working spouses in this dynamic are routinely, and unapologetically taken for granted and dismissed from outside the relationship, it is in full display right here on this thread, and it is very common for that to creep into the relationship as well.
> 
> As to the specifics of the OP's situation, her husband seems to be very unreasonable, and is completely out of order. There is never an excuse for that kind of name calling. End of.


This is an interesting perspective. Where I live the SAH parent is often accompanied by an eye roll and thoughts/comments like "oh how nice" or assumptions about being lazy or pampered. Very seldom are people commenting on how great it is for the children, or how hard the job must be-- unless it's another SAH parent.
But I appreciate your perspective and hair because things are like that here doesn't mean he doesn't feel less than or doesn't need more support etc. I think a lot of his frustrations come from feeling under appreciated. But he also has a big ego and is very sensitive... on top of our love languages being different. We should probably seek consoling but he sees that as a failure to handle it on our own which speaks to how badly we must be doing and that scares him.


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

You have two threads going which is confusing. Why didn’t you just update this thread?


----------



## So far so good (7 mo ago)

You’ve been married 5 years. Picking fights over small things… is that something new? If yes, did you notice any other behavior that changed?


----------

