# Lazy Wife



## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

My wife and I have been married for nearly 23 years. I’ve enjoyed being and participating in outdoor activities such as hunting, fishing, camping, etc. and she grew up in a more urban environment . One of the biggest things I liked about her while dating, was that she conveyed a love for my spirit of adventure. This was demonstrated by subscribing to my outdoor interests including some new collective interests we embraced together such as canoeing and mountain biking.  During our first 8 years of marriage I can honestly say I was in love with her every minute of it and confident she loved me just as much. We were intimate on a regular basis and respectful of each other. After our first five years of marriage, we agreed it was time for us to have children but soon discovered she couldn’t get pregnant. I was indifferent about having children but it was an obsession of my wife as we exercised fertility treatments to conceive our first child. We are now blessed with four beautiful and amazing children who I love. As the children were young, I worked a full time job plus another job on evenings and weekends so that my wife would be able to be a stay at home mother, fostering the development of our young children. After all the children were in school, my wife resumed her professional teaching career. However, this is where the tide began to change our relationship. Now, I feel like a contortionist to navigate through the house around laundry baskets, boxes, tables with all kinds of junk on it, etc. There is absolutely zero room on the counter to prepare a meal due to clutter. It isn’t because there isn’t room because I recently remodeled the kitchen with new cabinets, countertops, and appliances ; to the tune of over 20K. Our bedroom takes on a similar landscape as in addition to the dressers and closet space, she has clothes piled into boxes as well as thrown on top of her dresser. I could walk in the bedroom now and find at least 3 articles of clothing lying on the floor. In addition, she has her clothes hanging from the ceiling in our semi-finished basement which makes you feel like you’re in some kind of funhouse trying to get through. Then there are the cats which she insisted on getting and caring for. However, they don’t always end up using the litter pan because it doesn’t get emptied on a regular basis. I don’t feel my words can explain the picture well enough but I think you get the idea. It’s not that she doesn’t have the time to take care of this stuff but she doesn’t exercise time management skills. She undoubtedly finds enough time to spend on the telephone, on-line, and texting friends. I have tried discussing the situation with her a few times but she becomes defensive and accuses me of being mean. I am already seeing this laziness being subscribed to by our children as their bedrooms have become a similar story. Our finances were also in trouble as she would make unwise purchases only to be short on paying necessary fixed expenses each month. Therefore, we had to divide the bills up in which her and I take responsibility of paying certain monthly bills from separate checking accounts. 
Unfortunately, I’m finding it very difficult to be intimate with my wife in this environment and although I could indeed love the woman I first married, I’m finding myself loving the person I now know less and less each day. I also don’t feel she has a desire for intimacy which leads to my sexual frustration: Is she withholding it from me or is she just bored/non-interested in sex. I must add that in all this I have remained to be a faithful husband to the woman I married. I can count on one hand the amount of times we have done an outdoor activity together since our children were born. For the past 5 years she has agreed to clean the house out during her summer break but fails to make it a priority. The situation has provoked anger toward each other and the children as we have our own ideas of resolution to the situation. Not only is this an embarrassment, but it is to the point where it is unhealthy and dangerous to our entire family. 
Frankly, I think this situation is a volitale time bomb where I have to give her an ultimatum to shape up or ship out……..Helpful advice appreciate.


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## Mike6211 (Jan 18, 2013)

casey66 said:


> ... we have our own ideas of resolution to the situation ...


What are the ideas of you and your wife?


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

This is new after 23 years? Are you working together to keep house and finances up or are you expecting her to do everything?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Marriage counseling.... maybe a third party is necessary for improvement.

How helpful are you around the house? 

I am a teacher... with 5 kids (six years apart). There were some messy years, not as bad as you describe, but when they were little I had to pick my tidiness battles. My ex-h did not lift a finger to help. He was a schmuck (and I was a sap).... who'd ***** about a mess, or yell at the kids about being slobs in their rooms, but he never HELPED. 

Sooooo.... I hope that you are not one of those schmucks who complain about the house, while not helping. Also, you are a parent too....if you don't like how the kids are doing things (or not doing them) then step up. Make a chore chart, make it clear what is acceptable and what is not, make clean rooms be the minimum required before any privledge..... be the grown-up. 

Not much you can do about your wife tho, except to step up with the kids, and do your half around the house, TEACH the kids how it works, supervise them, etc.... YOU can do this. 

Just a thought... MAYBE w is overwhelmed? MAYBE at this time (even if you already help out) she might need a little extra help, just to show some team spirit. Maybe it would lift her up and make her want to be a better part of this team? I don't mean kiss her butt and do everything.... ask her what she needs. TELL her what your issue is. 

You can't change her, but you MIGHT be able to inspire her. 

That, or the marriage counseling. THAT might be a wake up call for her.

And there is no reason NOT to make those cats be OUTSIDE cats. If no one wants to clean up after them...or not often enough..... ugh.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

She is a working Mom of four, she is tired and maybe resentful that you don't help. Are you enjoying these outdoor activities and leaving her home with the children. Maybe if she didn't have to work she would have more time to clean and do these activities with you. Can't you support the family on your salary? Instead of complaining about how messy the house is, clean it yourself or hire someone.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There is not enough information in your post to give you solid input. So I have some questions.

How old are your children?

How many hours a week do you and your wife work?

How much of the housework and child care do each of you do?

What are your wife's ideas of how to resolve this?


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## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

So she was neat and clean before the children came along? 
Both of you working, four kids, cats. . . sounds like a busy household to take care of and have it ***** and span. . . .
If you didn't have this issue with her before the children, than you can count out that she is lazy. Ppl show they are messy pretty early on. Maybe she is just tired, stressed, needs a vacation?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Casey,

You separated finances. What are her thoughts about that?

I am optimistic about the prospects of saving your marriage because you had good chemistry.

If you have guests over, does your wife run around cleaning up before they arrive? If the answer is no, that means neatness is no longer an important value to her. Accept that either way.

Your wife suffered to get pregnant with your sperm. She chose you because she considers your genetic material good. She also saw your character as supportive, which you are.

Does she suffer from a negative self image due to her reproductive health?

Did the treatments have a negative effect on her sexual desire?

Step one, work on yourself to gain leverage for the sake of bettering your lives.

Are you overweight? Smoke? 
Work out and build your upper body, bigger shoulders and s v shaped torso will trigger desire on your wife's side.

The cats are an important clue to your wife's emotional state. They represent an investment of affection that she has not given you. That is why you resent them.

Suppose the next time you discovered cat excrement, you took the offending animal to the county unwanted pet death center, your wife might hate you. Your kids might consider you cruel, too.

I suggest that every time there is cat accident you bring your entire family into the clean up action as a team.

Listen when your wife talks. Don't be reactive. Be a rock. When something is really unacceptable, say so in one single sentence. Make certain you do not display anger.

Be more of leader. Do not beg for sex or display neediness. When you bang your wife make it good.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

SunnyT said:


> Marriage counseling.... maybe a third party is necessary for improvement.
> 
> How helpful are you around the house?
> 
> ...


Agree with all of this. There's no reason why you can't be the one to set some rules for your kids and their bedrooms. It's a pain in the neck to get kids to help out, but you're also the parent, so don't expect your wife to be solely responsible for that task.

As far as making the cats outdoor cats....sometimes it's easier said than done depending on where you live. We have 3 cats and 2 are normally outdoors but it is way too cold out right now so they're all 3 inside most of the time. I've been trying to make the 3rd an outdoor cat (because I hate the litter box) but he's petrified of the outdoors and even in warmer times it's not going so well. I will continue trying, though. If OP lives in an environment where cats can be outside, I'd encourage trying that for sure.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

I'd clean, straighten, & tidy up the house myself. Then demand it stay that way. Make everyone accountable for their own messes.
Put all their clothes in garbage bags (that are scattered about), put them outside. If they bring them inside, make them put them away.
My brother puts up with a house like yours. I refuse to. I've told my "family" as much, I wouldn't come home to it.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm a full-time teacher and my husband also expects me to do all of the housework just like when I was a SAHM. I think making the switch from SAHM to working mom is hard for some couples. The H can fail to realize what a tremendous amount of work it takes to keep a household running. And with four kids! I only have two, and their toys are EVERYWHERE. 

The tone of your post and your point of calling your full-time working wife of 4 "lazy" (because there are 3 articles of clothing on the bedroom floor? Oh noes!) because YOUR house is messy is making me think this is mostly your problem. Is she depressed because she's exhausted trying to keep up after 6 people by herself? Where's the part about you cleaning? 

Here's what I want you to do: Clean the house, just the way you like it. Keep it running that way by yourself for a month. When you understand what you're asking of your wife, and what it feels like to be called lazy when you're working your @ss off trying to meet someone else's ridiculous standards, then we can talk.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I think there is more here than you are aware of. By the sounds of things, your relationship thru the years has changed to include raising a family which it sounds like she shoulders a big part of that load. She then returned to work after the kids started school so not only is she still shouldering the rearing of the kids, trying to run them to appointments/activitites on top of her work schedule but she is also holding down a full-time job. Or was it part-time, I didn't see that specified. She is not supposed to take personal time for herself by getting on the computer or chatting on the phone because you expect her to be cleaning house. Not only that but you are bummed because after 23 years of marriage you do not see that she is as interested as you sexually as she was when you were newlyweds, and you want her to be by your side enjoying the man sports that you like.

What about your wife? Do you suppose she did enjoy the time with you doing your man sports because she was receiving some back in return , like your own interest in her? You already mentioned that you do not have the feelings for her now.....you don't think she feels that? And what does that feel like to her?? Possibly the feeling of rejection on her part. 

Is there any reason you are not doing the house work??


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Hire a professional organizer to come in, purge unnecessary junk, get the place cleaned up and organized, and to help implement new "systems."

It will be money well-spent and you can both start with a clean slate.

Then I agree that marriage counseling is in order. A junky, unorganized house (and yours sounds beyond this) is often a symptom of internal and emotional disarray on the part of one or both spouses. You need to find out how you and your wife can get your "house" in order. A good counselor can help.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

SecondTime'Round said:


> Agree with all of this. There's no reason why you can't be the one to set some rules for your kids and their bedrooms. It's a pain in the neck to get kids to help out, but you're also the parent, so don't expect your wife to be solely responsible for that task.
> 
> As far as making the cats outdoor cats....sometimes it's easier said than done depending on where you live. We have 3 cats and 2 are normally outdoors but it is way too cold out right now so they're all 3 inside most of the time. I've been trying to make the 3rd an outdoor cat (because I hate the litter box) but he's petrified of the outdoors and even in warmer times it's not going so well. I will continue trying, though. If OP lives in an environment where cats can be outside, I'd encourage trying that for sure.


If OP isn't helping around the house sufficiently, then he should be. But if he is, then something else is going on. 

As far as setting the rules for the kids I think that will be extremely difficult if his wife sets the example of letting things slide. He can try for a while, but how many times have we heard a story from a husband that starts the same way and we he steps up his game and even does all of the housework it doesn't fix a thing? In the end, there's a deeper problem in the relationship. 

So if he does step it up (or has already stepped it up) and there's no response from her, MC is desperately needed. 

Ditto on the cat advice. Way too cold around here for a house cat to survive outside.


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## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

Thanks for the replys so far. I tried not to make the post too long and therefore may not have provided all the details.

Before kids my wife always tidied our home on Sat. mornings for an hour or two but was never really a super clean person. We both seemed to be OK with that because we both took responsibility for cleaning up after ourselves. 

Our kids are: 15-girl, 14-girl, 12-girl, and 10-boy. It's my personal opinion that they have been babied too long and have become comfortable having everything done for them. My wife on the other hand believes I am too hard on the kids and have unrealistic expectations. This is a fundamental work ethic issue which I should have seen the writing on the wall before marriage but one of those things you tend to overlook when in love. I have conveyed that they are indeed old enough to pick up after themselves but she subscribes to the idea that it is easier for her to do it than deal with the attitudes of enforcing them to do the necessary chores.....My biggest Peave. I have tried the chore chart thing but there was a consistent problem where one of the kids would not be home or unavailable when something needed to be done. Then when the chore was reassigned, I became the one giving a black eye. You can see the bottom line is that the kids are indeed lacking in motivation and pride of household responsibilities and following the idea of "The apple doesn't fall far from the tree" 

From only reading the context of my post, I understand some readers will casually assume I am not holding up to balancing the responsibilities but I have a problem knowing she is spending at least two hours every night between the telephone, computer, and TV while I am slaving away at a part time job while the house remains unkept. 

We live in the Northeast where today's temps are below freezing so the outdoor cat thing will not be a popular option. I do consider myself to be an understanding and caring person but put a wall up when the limits are broken.

As for myself, I work a full time job and have another part time job getting paid for piece work from home at a location separate from the house. As my work is also demanding more time, I rarely have time for recreation and am able to count on one hand the amount of times I've been hunting and fishing in the last two years. I would really like to do several home repair/renovation projects to make our home more user friendly but have a problem working in such a mess. I am NOT a male chevonist and do have significant experience in laundry, cooking, dishes, and vacuming. However, I am personally cautious about developing these expectations. 

My latest vice has been trying to motivate everyone by offering a nice vacation once the house is in order so that outcome is still yet to be determined. 

I am physically fit at 5'11 and 185 lbs, don't smoke, and may only have a drink once in a while when out of the house so I don't see this to be a a depressive lifestyle issue for her. 
I do find my wife physically attractive but often find myself rationalizing if she loved me (us - children included) the home would be a place of pride for her. I know this is the time of life when her sexual desire may not be as complimentary and am trying extremely hard to take this into consideration. Finally, one of my biggest concerns is the example which it is developing in our children.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

casey66 said:


> Thanks for the replys so far. I tried not to make the post too long and therefore may not have provided all the details.
> 
> Before kids my wife always tidied our home on Sat. mornings for an hour or two but was never really a super clean person. We both seemed to be OK with that because we both took responsibility for cleaning up after ourselves.
> 
> ...


Re: Offering a vacation as motivation to clean. I don't think that's a good idea. They should be doing chores because that's what members of a household do. Offering vacation as payment for chores is a bad message. If you guys need a vacation, take one, but don't tie it to chores. Your kids will twist you in knots with behavior issues if you try that carrot and stick approach. 

And the fact that your wife is on a different page than you about chores and discipline is not a good thing. That needs to be resolved. You can't parent effectively when being undermined all the time. It doesn't work.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

When I was 15, I was cooking dinner 3 times a week and doing laundry. It was the BEST thing my mother taught me. My sister too (not my brother, boy issues in the family). So your kids are CERTAINLY old enough to do their share. If your wife disagrees, sit down and have a talk. It's really and truly the best thing for them. My best motivating idea is that the wifi gets switched off until the kids' chores are done (iPhones taken away too). Plug your computer into the router the old-fashioned way if you need access, but none for kiddos. Kind but firm, that's your motto.

I am still troubled that your take from this is "my wife is lazy." And you're saying the kids are turning out like her, which sounds contemptful to me. Read this: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo.../contempt-the-number-one-sign-marital-trouble


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

From the time my kids were 12 and up, they had to buy their own cloths and other odds and ends. I figured I was out the money one way or the other, either I bought them for them, or I paid them to do chores around the house and yard and they bought them themselves.

Buy paying them, they got to learn the value working and of money, were much more concerned about how much their cloths cost, etc. They even learned to shop at the second hand stores because all of a sudden, they didn't want to spend $50 bucks on a pair of jeans.

Sometimes I kept a chart, sometimes I would assign a job for a month at a time, sometimes I just paid by the job. BUT, I made it clear that if they wanted cloths for school, they better start earning it, no welfare system at our house.

All my kids were doing their own laundry by the time they were 12 also.

They learned to negotiate too. If I asked them to mow the yard, first thing out of their mouth was "how much are you going to pay me". 

I did other things also to teach them to work and appreciate their environment. They complained at times, especially when they wanted something cute at the mall and didn't have the money to buy it. But that is real life, when they grow up, they need to understand that they can't just have something because they want it, they have to work for it and be able to afford it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

My kids are 12 and 13 and have been doing their own laundry for about 4 years. Your kids are old enough to be doing their own laundry, and a whole lot more. With 4 capable kids, none of them should have to do THAT much work to pitch in, since it can all be split up. Yes, dealing with attitudes can be annoying, as I said before, but so what? You're the parent, not them, and it's your job to teach them to be competent adults. That starts with pitching in. If your wife won't do it, just do it. And make sure you stick to consequences. You don't even have to have a "chart." Just text them all every morning telling them what their responsibilities are for that day. Or use a white board (this is what I do). Once they get into the routine, there will be far less complaining.

As far as your wife, it sounds like clutter is just not something that bothers her. Lots of people are like this. I agree with hiring someone for a complete organizing/cleaning and tell her how important it is that you all pitch in to keep it that way once it's done.


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## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

Perhaps the semantics "Lazy Wife" may not have been most appropriate since I had written the post during a feeling of rage. 

What do you think about setting a date by which the house is in reasonable order. After that time, a dumpster gets delivered and liberty is taken to discard un needed items. Perhaps I may be able to sneak a cat or two in there also....Just kidding. I am willing to make an investment into starting with a clean slate by personally getting things in order. However, I am not naive to know unless attitudes and lifestyle changes are exercised, the monster will reappear. 

This has actually been bothering me for a few years but it has only been within the past few months that I also sense an emotional disconnection to me and the situation.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

It sounds like you are doing a lot, casey. I don't know what you do if your wife won't have the kids do things around the house. I agree with others that they should be helping too. I guess it is a matter of negotiating with your wife what she is willing to do, what she is willing to have the kids do, and what you are willing to live with. Have you taken that approach. Like negotiating things out? The chore chart doesn't work it sounds like.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Oh and how she keeps the house has nothing to do with how she feels about you. Some people are just messier than others. I personally hate housework, it has nothing to do with how I feel about my husband. What if you hired someone to do some things? We have someone come in and clean bathrooms and the kitchen because neither of us is thrilled cleaning the bathrooms.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old is your wife?

Wouldn't everything look different if you had more intimacy? I don't mean just sex but affection. Your wife is not meeting your needs.

Also, if you like hunting and fishing, you ought to go. Treat yourself.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Totally get venting it out.

Some people are not stressed by clutter. Some people really are, and it's draining to live in it. If your wife is the former and you're the latter, it's not fair to you to live in a cluttered, messy house. Have you guys ever done a family meeting before? Everyone convenes in the living room, and you state your case. You all brainstorm a plan together. Your kids might come up with better solutions than either you or your wife. 

Talk to wife alone first, hopefully she'll understand that this is really stressing you out and setting a bad example for the kids. 

If she's still not on board after you take a Team Family approach, maybe there's something else. Depression? Thyroid? Peri-menopause? Has she seen the doctor lately?


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

northernlights said:


> Totally get venting it out.
> 
> Some people are not stressed by clutter. Some people really are, and it's draining to live in it. If your wife is the former and you're the latter, it's not fair to you to live in a cluttered, messy house. Have you guys ever done a family meeting before? Everyone convenes in the living room, and you state your case. You all brainstorm a plan together. Your kids might come up with better solutions than either you or your wife.
> 
> ...


A family meeting is a fantastic idea, northernlights. It sounds like you are pretty busy, casey, but do you think you could meet altogether once a week? My husband and I started doing that and it has helped a lot.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

casey66 said:


> Thanks for the replys so far. I tried not to make the post too long and therefore may not have provided all the details.
> 
> Before kids my wife always tidied our home on Sat. mornings for an hour or two but was never really a super clean person. We both seemed to be OK with that because we both took responsibility for cleaning up after ourselves.
> 
> ...


Could your wife be suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder? Look it up. One of my daughters suffers with this and it sounds much the same as what you are dealing with. 

I am really thankful for my SIL as he has been the parent to the children and he has also been the person to take care of issues with the kids. It was certainly not the example she had with home life but it is life she chose and no matter what help she has had nothing has changed her. 

So I guess I wonder how much are you willing to take?


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

casey66 said:


> I do find my wife physically attractive but often find myself rationalizing if she loved me (us - children included) the home would be a place of pride for her.


I think you should consciously stop yourself from thinking this way. We're well past the time when the condition of the home reflects solely on the wife. I'm SURE she loves your kids (and hopefully you too!), but there's no obligation that she express this love in a perfect home. 

Have you seen the love languages book or read about love languages on the internet? The idea is that people feel and express love in different ways. You feel loved when your wife provides acts of service (especially domestic ones). Maybe your wife shows you love in another way? Or maybe she's not communicating it at all? Maybe your acts of service (remodeling the kitchen) don't strike her as displays of love for her and the kids, and you two are ships in the night to each other? You can even take a quiz online that will help you identify your love languages. I highly recommend it!


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## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

Either of us have the manager type personality and feel very uncomfortable being the drill seargent but tough love seems like the best recipe to begin moving forward. 

I am uncomfortable hiring someone to clean our house not just because I can't afford it but am concerned it sends the wrong message to our children that ordinary household chores are beneath them. 

Yes two ships in the night has been our mode of existence lately. A "Good Morning" "Good Night" and maybe a "Goodbye" kiss for work once in a while. I know we are capable of much better than that. 

I'm hopeful the situation can have resolution with a little motivation and creative thinking.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

casey66 said:


> Either of us have the manager type personality and feel very uncomfortable being the drill seargent but tough love seems like the best recipe to begin moving forward.
> 
> I am uncomfortable hiring someone to clean our house not just because I can't afford it but am concerned it sends the wrong message to our children that ordinary household chores are beneath them.
> 
> ...


Casey, I get what you mean about the kids because I feel the same way, and we have a house cleaner, but she does not touch the kids' bedrooms. They have such little responsibility in life, they can be responsible for their own rooms. They are not the ones with full time jobs. I've also reiterated to them that yes, we have a house cleaner once a month, but we do not only clean once a month!! It's just to HELP....we are still keeping things clean throughout the month.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

It's just to HELP....we are still keeping things clean throughout the month.

Yeah, that's the way it is for us too. She doesn't even do half of all things that need to be done. It just helps with stuff that we hate doing.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Doesn't anyone think maybe his wife is plain lazy?? OP your wife sounds just like my ex wife. She was 25 and still living at home when we married so I had no clue as to her living habits. I spent a lot of time for many years cleaning the house but when you have to clean up after another adult who could help but just doesn't it's very frustrating. 

The bad thing about getting the kids to do their share (I did this) is they are always resentful that their "area" needs to be clean while the rest of the home is a mess. And if both parents don't enforce, agree and set an example the kids are not going to want to abide, and they will follow the easiest path (to not clean). 

I feel sorry for you OP, you are hard working and trying to nurture your kids to grow up to be self reliant adults with good habits, but your wife doesn't worry about teaching them basic skills and responsibilities. 

I have no solution for you, I divorced mine and as soon as she was out of the house I got rid of all her trash and the house has been clean ever since.


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## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Considering your wife's age, she may be starting to go through physical and hormonal changes. *NOT* blaming this on menopause but it may be a contributing factor. That, with four kids and working full-time. A low functioning thyroid makes you exhausted and not caring. You can barely get through the day. BTDT. *NOT* saying she needs HRT but a full physical is a good idea. *For you both*. There is more to good health than weight and a low BMI.

You and your wife should have a pleasant meeting about having the kids step up and do chores. As others have said, you *NEED* these skills to live on your own. Do they expect mommy to come to college to do their laundry and clean their room? Farm the kids out and order takeout from your wife's favorite place/restaurant. Sit on the floor, eat off the coffee table and discuss this. Then draw up the charts for each child. After this have her favorite dessert and, who knows, maybe even sex. Make everything "we" and *NOT* "you" and "me."

After everything has been decided, have a meeting with the kids, maybe with pizza for dinner. Then *inform* them there is a new sheriff in town and how things will be. There is *NO* negotiation or wiggle room. Let them know the consequences for failure to comply. Will they balk and complain? Absolutely. But when there are no clean clothes for school or their activity, they will get the message. Seeing you and your wife as a united front will let the kids know divide and conquer won't work. Even have (minor) consequences when they try the divide and conquer maneuvers. They will learn to live with it. Believe me, when they go off to college, they will thank you and maybe even make some money doing laundry for the inept classmates. (Hint, they pay cash up front.)

IamSomebody


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

You ARE sending a message to your kids that chores are beneath them by not demanding they do them and giving consequences if they are not done. 

With both of you working, you should be doing half of the other housework. If your kids don't do laundry, they go to school in dirty clothes. If they don't cook, they go hungry. If they leave their stuff everywhere, you confiscate it. If you let your present circumstances go on too much longer, the resentment will grow until your marriage is dead, in my opinion. Good luck on turning things around.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

casey66 said:


> Perhaps the semantics "Lazy Wife" may not have been most appropriate since I had written the post during a feeling of rage.
> 
> What do you think about setting a date by which the house is in reasonable order. After that time, a dumpster gets delivered and liberty is taken to discard un needed items. Perhaps I may be able to sneak a cat or two in there also....Just kidding. I am willing to make an investment into starting with a clean slate by personally getting things in order. However, I am not naive to know unless attitudes and lifestyle changes are exercised, the monster will reappear.
> 
> This has actually been bothering me for a few years but it has only been within the past few months that I also sense an emotional disconnection to me and the situation.


Go take a look at the site FlyLady.net They have a plan/program for how to get the house tidy and keep it that way in a way that does not feel like your trying to move the unmovable.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

for the cat box.. get a electric one. They are self cleaning. When I had cats, I had one similar to the one at the link below. They take the hassle out of kitty litter.


Littermaid Automatic Self-Cleaning Classic Litter Box, LM680C - Walmart.com


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Offering something like a vacation as incentive is a bad idea.

If who of you kids work their behinds off and two don't. Are you going to leave the two behind who did not pull their weight?

Instead come up with individual incentives.

I do like the idea of paying for chores in the way another poster here described. I did a lot of that with my kids. They wanted spending money and clothing. They could earn it.


the way I did it was that each kid had a set of basic chores to do. Each kid got $1 in allowance for each year of their age. any chore that was not done, they lost $1 for that month. 

There were also other chores that they could volunteer to do for $$. They used to argue over who got to do them.  It worked great.

When each kid was 10 years old I taught him/her how to use the washer and gave them 2 hampers. They learned very quickly that if they wanted clean clothing, sheets, and towel.. they had to do it themselves.


Basically the kids got nothing except birthday and Christmas gifts that they did not earn.

They also learned very quickly that the good things cost a lot so they basically taught themselves to save money.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

casey66, you've got a couple of things going on. Your kids are not being held responsible and that's damaging to them. There's no way to candy coat this and there's no shortcuts. If you have to be the bad guy in this regard and hold them to their responsibilies then that just what you have to be. Yes you'll hold alot of resentment later on toward your wife but you have no choice about it. Your kids deserve a chance in life and you absolutely have to do what you think you need to for them to have that chance.

I think your wife has lost perspective of reality. Maybe she's in a bad place that you may or may not be able to get her out of but either way you've got to do damage control for your kids. What you're describing is a spirral that often gets worse. More clutter, more pets, more mess, more chaos and I'm worried that your wife is in on her way to becoming a horder or possibly she's chronically depressed.

I've never been in your situation but here's my thoughts. Short term I would tell my wife that I'm holding the kids responsible for their sake and I'm throwing away anything that doesn't have a place until I can walk into a house that looks normal. Your wife might thing this is a debate and disagree but that's missing the point. It's not a debate. You've reached the end of your rope so it's actually just the way things are unless she's ready to split from you. Step 2 would be to do what I said. I would literally declutter my home in the process surprising my wife and kids when things they didn't find a place for is now gone.

Don't get me wrong, if it were just you and your wife then a lot of compromise can be made but this is about your kids too. Some reality has to be injected into a home when either of the parents is spinning in an unhealthy direction. I honestly would not feel I had any other choice about it given where you're at on this day.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

Tons of people here have made some really good points here so I'm not going to waffle on too much but I can give a suggestion for cleaning up. 

My favorite thing in the world: a chore roster!

We started one of these up when our boys were 11 and it's still going now. Because your children are in that 10-15 bracket it's pretty much perfect. Think of all the work that needs to be done and assign a few things to each kid and yourselves (important so your kids don't think you're just treating them like slaves), write it down and stick it up on the fridge or wherever. We used to give our kids one veto star for each week and they were allowed to trade with a sibling if they wanted to. If they didn't do their fair share, we'd cut privileges, their allowance, take their phone or cut the Internet, etc. Our house of seven people and like, twice as many dogs and cats (and chickens, and a goat, and a pig) is pretty much immaculate thanks to this.


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

intheory said:


> My take on this is a bit different; and probably a bit drastic.
> 
> Get rid of every extra bit of "junk" in your house.
> 
> ...


That's fantastic advice, intheory.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Does your wife work or is she a stay at home parent?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Try this: Determine your take home pay from the part time job; determine what that money is used for; determine what expenses can be cut that would compensate for the pay.

Family meeting: Okay guys, since this house is a pig sty we have two options - a. I quit my part time job and devote more time to cleaning up after you pigs & we eliminate cable, internet, phones, new clothes (Goodwill or do without), movies, decent food and trips to the mall; b. you people come up with a plan to get this house in shape & keep it in shape on a daily basis. Let me know what you decide when I get back from my hunting trip.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Maybe you should help her clean the house then.


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## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

ladybird said:


> Maybe you should help her clean the house then.


The messy house is only a product of a more volatile issue outlined earlier.
There has been some good advice which I will give consideration to and although I believe that I can get the kids to cooperate, I still think wifie will be the biggest challenge to bring on board. She will yell at the kids for not respecting me but then turn around and usurp my authority: I said no cats after the ones we had died...so what she does is comes home with the kids one day with two new cats. She brought a dog home conveying it was my daughters foster/rescue dog to help her develop responsibility. When I said it had to go after two months. The wife said that she loved the dog and if I loved her I would let her keep it. However, I'm saving to play that same card for the day I pull in the driveway with a new motorcycle. The latest was two of the girls wanted to go skating and I said their room had to be cleaned. In "cleaning" the room they took all the junk and piled it into the closet. I said they couldn't go. After a few tears and moaning, they convinced my wife she should then take them. So with that understanding, it is difficult for the kids to have respect for me when my wife doesn't. You can see she finds it much easier and convenient to let the kids have their way than deal with the prevailing issues. Hopefully you can now see why things that should be done by competent individuals are falling between the cracks.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I gather you don't have any family or friends come over to your place. How about snapping some pics & sending to your wife's relatives, friends & coworkers and asking if they know of a good cleaning service? Maybe a little embarrassment will motivate her.

Don't forget that 15 year old will be wanting to get her driver's license in the near future. Any ideas on how to handle that?


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## casey66 (Jan 25, 2015)

Ironically my mother in law elected to stay in a hotel when visiting us two months ago for Christmas.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> I gather you don't have any family or friends come over to your place. How about snapping some pics & sending to your wife's relatives, friends & coworkers and asking if they know of a good cleaning service? Maybe a little embarrassment will motivate her.
> 
> Don't forget that 15 year old will be wanting to get her driver's license in the near future. Any ideas on how to handle that?


Oh yeah, that's a good idea, embarrass her with photos to family and friends. If my H did that, the clutter would be the least of his worries.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Would you prefer he give her the "ultimatum to shape up or ship out"?

Seriously, if she wasn't embarrassed enough to clean up the house with her mother coming for Christmas then it wouldn't matter to her what anyone says or thinks.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Would you prefer he give her the "ultimatum to shape up or ship out"?
> 
> Seriously, if she wasn't embarrassed enough to clean up the house with her mother coming for Christmas then it wouldn't matter to her what anyone says or thinks.


There really aren't any easy answers here for Casey. My opinion is that neither embarrassment nor an ultimatum will work because I don't think she has full control at the moment. I'm not sure she'd be willing to consider counceling either because we're afraid to face our vices and she'll know that's what will come of it.  So if it were me, I'd focus on actionable steps I could take. Throwing away or boxing up all of the clutter in the house and then continuing to do so if it started to clutter again would be an actionable step for me. Another actionable step would be grounding the kids when she overrides what he says. In other words they both have to agree or the kids is grounded. That sucks for the kids but what other options are there if she's overriding. Either way the division is bad but being able to run to one to get what they want is even worse IMO. I suppose it could be looked at negatively but many boundaries can be viewed as indifferent or mean based on perspective. It still doesn't change the fact that a hoarder's home is unhealthy for children to grow up in.

I really do feel bad for Casey, for his wife, and for his kids. There are tough choices to make and taking the easy route now may come back to haunt him later.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He has to do something before he works himself to death. Am really curious as to what subject his wife teaches.


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## Gitman (Feb 15, 2013)

We have so much in common; I have four kids messy house wife methodically castrates me by not backing me on chores or discipline. Kids do not help at all. Real messy / dirty house. I work two jobs, do almost all car repairs, fix everything, plumbing drywall, clean and do dishes whenever she cooks. Read the article below. It hit right at home with me. Btw wife is a SAHM youngest is sixteen.
Why Being a Stay-At-Home Mom Nearly Destroyed My Marriage | YourTango


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## Gitman (Feb 15, 2013)

I can emphasize with you. I work two jobs money is real tight but she refuses to go back to work. I have four kids youngest being sixteen. Wife is a SAHM. House is a wreck and dirty. I help clean, do dishes, almost all car repairs, take care of the lawn and landscaping, fix everything around the house, remodeled a bathroom. She methodically castrates me by not having my back on discipline, kids doing chores etc. See link to the story below it hit home with me:

Why Being a Stay-At-Home Mom Nearly Destroyed My Marriage | YourTango


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## Gitman (Feb 15, 2013)

Same here work two jobs four kids SAHM youngest being sixteen. Wife methodically castrates me with the kids on discipline and chores. Messy/dirty house I help clean and do the dishes as well as fix everything remodel bathrooms work on the cars etc. Read the article by Samantha Darby Sollenberger "Why Being a Stay-At-Home Mom Nearly Destroyed My Marriage". I cannot post a link here but search for it you'll find it.
It hit right at home for me.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Blondilocks said:


> Would you prefer he give her the "ultimatum to shape up or ship out"?
> 
> Seriously, if she wasn't embarrassed enough to clean up the house with her mother coming for Christmas then it wouldn't matter to her what anyone says or thinks.


I would hope my relatives would opt for a hotel too if I had a house full of kids (I do), work full time (I do) have pets ( I do) and a Husband (I do). I imagine anyone in that position would like to enjoy their holiday instead of picking up after and seeing to the needs of one more person. The woman is a teacher, which means she teaches all day and comes home to grading papers, lesson planning, and probably additional classes for herself. 

Dad needs to either carry his share of household duties, round up a chore chart for the kids, hire a maid, or lower his expectations.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> I would hope my relatives would opt for a hotel too if I had a house full of kids (I do), work full time (I do) have pets ( I do) and a Husband (I do). I imagine anyone in that position would like to enjoy their holiday instead of picking up after and seeing to the needs of one more person. The woman is a teacher, which means she teaches all day and comes home to grading papers, lesson planning, and probably additional classes for herself.
> 
> Dad needs to either carry his share of household duties, round up a chore chart for the kids, hire a maid, or lower his expectations.



Hi LonelyinLove. It sounds like you may be able to connect with his wife's mindset more than I do. Due to gender, lifestyle, etc you would have to get her better than some of us. My thoughts are based on the sum of several things he's explained. Maybe yours is too. I'm wondering if you have any ideas for him? Here are some issues I see.

One issue; he said he feels like a contortionist to navigate through the house around laundry baskets, boxes, tables with all kinds of junk on it, etc. To me it sounds like she's overwhelmed. The picture I see when he talks about clothes piled in boxes everywhere and on the dresser and the floor and hanging from the semi-finished basement is overwhelming.

Another issue is the pets. He mentions cat and them not alway using the litter pan and then says he doesn't feel his words can explain how bad this is. To me they do because I've seen homes where pet's are not cleaned up for and it beyond disgusting. So if he doesn't want the burden of the pets plus the house is also nasty then he's left scratching his head wondering what to do.

Another issue is that he sees her have time to text and talk yet the home is in a nasty shape. Yea I'm making the assumption it's very nasty because that's waht I've seen when clutter meets unkept animals. He says finds enough time to spend on the telephone, on-line, and texting friends. I get that maybe she needs some time to unwind. I'm not sure the home being in a stinky clutter state okay though.

Another issue is the kids rooms are fitting in with the rest off the home. Maybe he's like me and isn't okay with that. After all a single room is such a small space to keep semi clean. It's a lesson in accountability and responsibility to expect kids to not let the room become a pigsty. This is something I admittedly didn't do well.

Another issue is that he thinks she makes unwise purchases. I suppose we need more details on this to know for sure but the fact that they split up bills is probably a good start. What's disturbing is that they actually had to do this. Let's face it, bills and responsibilities are stressful. Normally when assigning certain payment to a spouse occurs it's because they were not actually being responsible and understanding the reality of the finances.

Another issue that's going to affect them both is that Casey has lost so respect for his wife and is losing interest sexually. This might be crushing to her if she learns the reason is that he doesn't respect who she's becoming. 

He metions that before the kids when the home was cleanish but not super clean they were okay because they both took responsibility for cleaning up after themselves. To me this sounds like he's not a neat freak expecting and impossibly clean home. Maybe I'm wrong.

Another issue is that he feels this 15, 14, 12, and 10 year olds have been babied too long and have become comfortable having everything done for them. It could be differing opinions but the sum of other comments make this one fall right into place of a parent who's overwhelmed and not holding her kids responsible. In other words this piece of information wouldn't stand on it's own to be relevant I think it is in this case.

Another issue is that he's conveyed that the kids are indeed old enough to pick up after themselves but she subscribes to the idea that it is easier for her to do it than deal with the attitudes of enforcing them to do the necessary chores.... This one is rubbing me very wrong. If he believes his wife is enabling the kids then what should he do here?


This snippet is hard to defend as well.


> From only reading the context of my post, I understand some readers will casually assume I am not holding up to balancing the responsibilities but I have a problem knowing she is spending at least two hours every night between the telephone, computer, and TV while I am slaving away at a part time job while the house remains unkept.


Okay I got tired of sifting through his comments because there's enough here to see a pattern of a woman who's overwhelmed and not completely in reality IMO. I'm just not sure of what he should do or if there's anything he can do.


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## Feeling-Lonely (Nov 13, 2013)

Call me lazy but I would never want to work two jobs! Are you living in a very expensive area? How can two and a half salaries not be enough? Or maybe you (you and your family) have swapped your free time for junk you don't really need. Cut the junk and cut your work hours to spend time with your family. Just out of curiosity? Do you have cable? Do you have monthly phone plan for your kids? 
I suggest paid minute phone, I have one because it was much more affordable than being locked in a monthly plan.

Believe me the only thing that is not for sale is time. I cut my own hair, have never done professional manicure and cook at home so me and my h don't have to slave ourselves in a grave just to "have it all" vacations included. We do a mini breaks now and then but no tropical islands.

Move to Oregon, the weather is nice and it is far less expensive than northeast.


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## lonelyhusband321 (Feb 18, 2014)

Different people have different definitions, but to ME, a working mom of 4 doesn't describe lazy.

If these things are an issue, I would suggest a housekeeper. I know - they cost, but I guarantee the five year cost of a housekeeper will be a hell of a lot less than a divorce.

Now for the "bang on OP" part. Just my opinion, but I don't think your (or ANY wife) should HAVE to work. I was raised up to believe that a man's number one duty is to support his family.

Don't take that the wrong way! If your wife wants to work/contribute, that's fine and dandy, but I just don't think it should be mandatory. That's old-fashioned (maybe), but that's my personal conviction...it might not be yours.


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