# Help please, marital rape or no??



## mick123 (Jan 26, 2013)

Hello everyone,
I am new, so hello. If you have a moment, please advise. I have been married for over 10 years and have 2 kids. I am writing because I am so incredibly confused and would really appreciate some objective opinions. 
I recently found out (3 months ago) that my 6 year old daughter has likely been sexually abused. She is not talking at all and denies anything has ever happened to her, and even the police believe that she doesn't think she's been sexually abused. But she has serious anxiety and self esteem issues, and she acted out in a sexual way with another child that made a therapist and CPS tell me that 100% she has been taught about sexual behavior by an adult. It involved very adult behavior and bribing. 
I recently found a text between my husband and a buddy of his that was sleezy all around, mostly about hot chicks at bars, but it also mentioned that they wished they had gotten "blow jobs and baby girls" while out. He says that "baby girl" comment was a movie reference to the movie swingers, but because of that, I asked him to give me his computers and phone to investigate and make sure he wasn't involved in hurting my daughter. 
When the computer forensics person went through his stuff, he didn't find anything, but he found that many years of data were missing, and my husband eventually admitted that he thrown away 2 computers that had such horrible things on them that he threw them away, out of fear I would find them.
He says that the reason he threw away the computers was because what was on these computers was him taping me (without my knowledge) naked, getting dressed, taking showers, and him touching me when I was sleeping. He says that he ejaculated on me when I was sleeping, and had sex with me in the anus which he knew I (although I tried a couple times but hated and he knew that) hated and never wanted him to do. He says he especially did it when he was mad at me and/or when I was drinking. He videotaped these things and watched them over the last 3 years and jerked off to them. 
Questions to you all: Is this rape? Why is he taping me? I have consented to taping once before so why is he doing it without my consent? Could he be hurting my daughter? he denies it completely and my daughter loves him so much. 
I am so confused. I want my family to be intact, but I can't believe he took advantage of me in a violent way and jerked off to it for years, and I think because he threw away two computer there could be more than he admitted to. He swears he threw the computers away because he was scared I would find the sleeping sex videos. 
Help, please.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

mick123 said:


> Hello everyone,
> Questions to you all: Is this rape? *YES!* Why is he taping me? *Because he gets off on it.* I have consented to taping once before so why is he doing it without my consent? *Because sexual abuse is never about sex. It's about power. *Could he be hurting my daughter? *Based on what you described here, I'd say there is a very high probability that he is, yes. *he denies it completely *(of course!)* and my daughter loves him so much. *Children don't usually stop loving an abusive parent. They just want the abuse to stop. *
> I am so confused. I want my family to be intact, but I can't believe he took advantage of me in a violent way and jerked off to it for years, and I think because he threw away two computer there could be more than he admitted to. *Can pretty much guarantee that there was a LOT more than he's admitting now. He threw them out so you would not know. It's logical that he'll tell you things that minimize what he did or redirects your attention.* He swears he threw the computers away because he was scared I would find the sleeping sex videos.
> Help, please.


1. There is no way in hell he'll admit to abusing your daughter if he thinks he cannot get your approval and protection, and he knows he will not be protected by you.

2. Although the "baby girls" thing may well have been a movie reference, the rest of this speaks of a very sick, sex-addicted man who consistently and repeatedly demonstrated a lack of respect for you and your boundaries. He never had a breakdown of conscience in all that time. He was logical and rational enough to dispose of the evidence and stay cool as a cucumber. Why wouldn't he do the same thing now? 

3. Your biggest concern is protecting your daughter without traumatizing her more than necessary. Exposing her to police interrogations could prove traumatic for her in addition to the trauma she has already experienced. You might consider pressing charges against him for the crimes he committed against YOU so that you can get her safely away from him in a way that doesn't leave her blaming herself. She is at serious risk if you decide to keep your family intact.

I have some articles related to these subjects that you might find helpful: 
Rape in Marriage 
Protect Your Child from Abuse


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## mick123 (Jan 26, 2013)

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I am already acting in the safest way possible until I sort this out - I am not allowing him around her until her proves his innocence (which he can't because he threw away the computers). The problem is I have no legal standing because I have no evidence that he's done anything to her. The police say there's nothing they can do regarding her case without further evidence. I have not told them about the night "rape" or non-consenting videos, because the police I dealt with were for my daughter and child cases, not me.


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## mick123 (Jan 26, 2013)

So my question now is do I stay married (without him sleeping with me) so I can keep an eye on things, or divorce for my own principal and safety, but knowing he'll get 50% time alone with her??


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You cannot keep an eye on things. You'd be amazed at how fast sexual abuse can happen. You cannot ever go to the bathroom alone and feel certain of your daughter's safety. That's plenty of time for him to cop a feel, expose himself to her, or make inappropriate comments. 

If I was in your shoes, my plan would be to file a police report for his admissions about what he did to me. I would also report it to the investigators who are involved in your daughter's case (the forensic experts in particular). I would also seek a restraining order pending divorce and keep your daughter working with a counselor and a guardian ad litem so you can get supervised visitation.

If that didn't work out, I'd move to another state with her as soon as the ink was dry on the divorce papers.


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## mick123 (Jan 26, 2013)

By supervised visitation, are you talking about for me or for him? My biggest fear is that they will see our household as such as mess that they will take my kids.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Oh man, that's a question I'd pose to both your lawyer and the professionals who have evaluated your child.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Supervised visitation would mean he could only see your daughter in the presence of an authority figure like a counselor. He would not be able to take her anywhere just the two of them.

You would not likely be supervised when you've shown a willingness to protect your daughter and yourself from harm. The hardest part will be convincing authorities that you're not simply being a b*tchy woman trying to harm him by making up stories. Right now, though, you have counselors on your side and people who can attest to what your reaction was from first being notified of your daughter's behavior through the investigative steps that have already been taken. For instance, if you go to the cops and say, "I have been questioning him about the deleted information and he told me (these things)," then you look like a concerned parent who is taking action because you have a valid reason.


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## mick123 (Jan 26, 2013)

I just want my baby girl safe. I don't know that he's done anything to her. I only know for sure he's done very ugly things to me. But he also threw away 2 computers during the investigation into her sexual abuse. I feel that I need to keep her safe for now, until we find out what was on the computers and until I have an answer regarding her behavior. Is that being a paranoid parent or reasonable??


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## mick123 (Jan 26, 2013)

The child sexual assault investigator told me that him throwing away computers was a marital issue, because he told her it was due to embarrassing videos, and not a child sexual assault issue. She dropped it. I didn't tell her about the sleeping forced sex, but she knows he threw away computers and she dismissed it.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

mick123 said:


> Is that being a paranoid parent or reasonable??


Reasonable. Absolutely.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

mick123 said:


> I just want my baby girl safe. I don't know that he's done anything to her. I only know for sure he's done very ugly things to me. But he also threw away 2 computers during the investigation into her sexual abuse. I feel that I need to keep her safe for now, until we find out what was on the computers and until I have an answer regarding her behavior. Is that being a paranoid parent or reasonable??


The investigators would not be able to tie his throwing away computers with anything related to the investigation if they don't have that little nugget of information about "why" he threw it away. Did they even ask him about it? 

If they continue to say something like that after hearing the reason, you may want to ask for another investigator to be assigned. You'd be very reasonable to want to know why an investigator would ignore something like "He threw two computers away during your investigation of him, and deleted much information from the other computer." 

Also, you might consider whether those computers never made it to the trash. There's a fair chance that he stashed them in a car trunk, storage unit, attic, or something like this. 

Even though it's normal to have feelings that go back and forth between having loving feelings for him that urge you to keep things together, and wanting to never see him again, I hope you'll stay focused on taking care of your daughter. I have some serious reservations about the investigation based on what I've read in your posts. If the police think she doesn't _believe_ that she was abused, but agree that she learned the behavior from an adult, then I'm worried that the police investigator is NOT a trained sexual assault responder. Normal police investigation tactics often fail to uncover sexual abuse because the victims don't want to hurt someone they love. Remember, they just want the abuse to stop, and when cops get involved, even a 6-year old understands police put people in jail. 

The fact that her own acting out involved bribery suggests that she has been approached in a seductive manner rather than through physical force. It would be worthwhile to investigate the "games" adults play with her (and do this without focusing on your husband or the sexual aspects) to gain insight. "Hmm... has anyone ever played Bingo with you? Who played Bingo? Really? Was it fun? Cool! And has anyone played (another couple times with other children's games) and then "Ok, and what was the best treat you ever got for keeping a secret?" This kind of backdoor questioning is far more likely to produce answers than "did your daddy ever touch you down there?" kinds of questions. 

It's possible that your husband is not the adult who touched her, but based on what you've written I'm 98% confident that he is.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

mick123 said:


> HHe says that the reason he threw away the computers was because what was on these computers was him taping me (without my knowledge) naked, getting dressed, taking showers, and him touching me when I was sleeping. He says that he ejaculated on me when I was sleeping, and had sex with me in the anus which he knew I (although I tried a couple times but hated and he knew that) hated and never wanted him to do.


Maybe that's all a big lie on his part and he threw away the computers because he's got child porn on them. It fits the general theory that he molested your daughter.

I mean, if nothing else, I'd think if he tried to screw you in the a$$ while you're asleep it would be enough to wake you up.


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## center1 (Jan 25, 2013)

sharkeey said:


> Maybe that's all a big lie on his part and he threw away the computers because he's got child porn on them. It fits the general theory that he molested your daughter.
> 
> I mean, if nothing else, I'd think if he tried to screw you in the a$$ while you're asleep it would be enough to wake you up.


I was also wondering about this. You'd have to be sleeping pretty soundly for someone to have anal sex with you without waking you. That doesn't seem possible.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

It's very possible. 

The body relaxes a great deal when someone's asleep. When they are in deep sleep stages, they would not rouse even for that, and it wouldn't cause the same pain it might normally cause. By testing her for signs of wakefulness and paying attention to her breathing patterns, he could have done this.

She said he acted out against her when he was mad or when she was drunk. If she was intoxicated when she went to sleep, it would be even easier to pull this off.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

center1 said:


> I was also wondering about this. You'd have to be sleeping pretty soundly for someone to have anal sex with you without waking you. That doesn't seem possible.


I'd be concerned that he's drugged you before. And if he's drugged you, I'd be very worried that he's done the same thing to your daughter.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

mick123 said:


> By supervised visitation, are you talking about for me or for him? My biggest fear is that they will see our household as such as mess that they will take my kids.


Fair concern, because given your account of the “sleeping sex videos”, I can only reasonably assume there is/was some very significant substance abuse issues here as well.

Sorry, but you’d need to be pretty drunk or high not to recall being anally penetrated while you were sleeping.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> It's very possible.
> 
> The body relaxes a great deal when someone's asleep. When they are in deep sleep stages, they would not rouse even for that, and it wouldn't cause the same pain it might normally cause. By testing her for signs of wakefulness and paying attention to her breathing patterns, he could have done this.


Really? Sounds farfetched. Are you some sort of sleep specialist or at least a medical professional? Or do you have some sort of reliable source for the information you have provided.

The simplest answer is that if an alarm clock buzzer can wake anyone up so can anal sex.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> Really? Sounds farfetched. Are you some sort of sleep specialist or at least a medical professional? Or do you have some sort of reliable source for the information you have provided.
> 
> The simplest answer is that if an alarm clock buzzer can wake anyone up so can anal sex.


I'm not a specialist on sleep, no. My familiarity with sleep comes from my own research because I have a sleep disorder to cope with because the docs can't do anything but recommend drugs. Alarms almost NEVER wake me up unless I time my sleep stages accordingly. 

There's no way to know whether she may have been drugged, as was pointed out, by her husband who wants to go looking for blow jobs with his pal. Date rape drugs would certainly not make this far-fetched at all, and I don't think it's necessary to be an expert to comprehend this, nor to understand that muscles relax more as sleep progresses to deeper sleep, nor to understand that some people are lighter sleepers than others. It's false to say that alarms will wake anyone up. I literally slept through a tornado passing through my back yard once and had no recollection of it and had a boyfriend who liked to initiate sex when I was sleeping. 

If you really want to challenge this, I'd encourage you to read up yourself on sleep stages, particularly the deep Delta stage 4. I'll look up some sources for you in a moment... 


http://www.helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm (general info)
http://apsychoserver.psych.arizona.edu/jjbareprints/psyc501a/readings/Carskadon Dement 2011.pdf (pretty scientific look at sleep)
http://www.thefrisky.com/2012-12-04...thing-but-raping-someone-while-they-sleep-is/ (example of a woman who was raped while sleeping)

As far as child sexual abuse and the dynamics involved in sexual abuse, if I'm not an expert I'm probably pretty damn close. And yes, I do have a fair amount of medical training in my background. When I am not pretty confident in what I'm saying, I'm careful to point it out.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

Doesn't seem beyond the bounds of reason that the OP's husband slipped her a date rape drug before the sleeping incidents.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Daughter, too. ^

I've had some exposure to subconscious mind work, which I guess I should say up front. It's possible that your daughter doesn't remember what happened to her either because she has suppressed it or because she experienced it in a semi-conscious state.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

*If that didn't work out, I'd move to another state with her as soon as the ink was dry on the divorce papers.*

Depending on your state laws, it may be easier to leave the state BEFORE divorce. 

Talk to an attorney. Start figuring out what to do to get away from him. 

You can't stay married or living with this man, he has molested you.... which makes it easy to guess he may have molested your daughter also. Either way, he doesn't respect you at all if he actually did those things to you while you were sleeping. If you want to protect her, you have to get him out of the house. But like Kathy said, you have to make the divorce all about YOU and HIM, not about the kid and what happened there...because that could scar her more. 

Also, just my opinion....but if your daughter sees you stand up for yourself, and for self-respect...that may empower her more with her own issues. You'll be a strong role model for her. 

So talk to an attorney, clean up your house, search for places H could have stashed those computers. Start figuring out your plans.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Anyway you can get his buddies computer? Child Predators like to band together, they trade pictures and stories. They have a code for various material, though I don't know it. If there is kiddie porn on the buddy's PC it may include both you, if he was truthful in his confession to you, and your daughter. Porn gets old so the images have to be fresh. Child predators are constantly on the look out for new material.

Also, I don't buy the confession at all. The legal ramifications of non consentual sex with a spouse are much less severe than sex with a daughter. Cop to the less offense to avoid a bigger penalty.

Also, do not overlook other adults in your daughter's life. Ask the therapist working with your daughter about anyone taking pictures of her or asking her to pose for pictures. 

I don't suggest you investigate these matters with your daughter yourself. It is so easy to lose evidence in child sex abuse cases because the interviewer asked questions that were poorly worded. Leave the questions to the experts who are specially trained to get answers, help the child and preserve the integrity of evidence.

lastly, do not leave the state unless/until your husband's visitation is court ordered supervised. Otherwise you will end up having to send your daughter to visit with her Dad with out protection.

For your daughter's piece of mind, do not trash her father in front of her. The split has to do with how he treated you, not to protect her. When she is much older she can hear from you on that.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Yes, you are living with a rapist.

I really think you need to get a protective order to keep him away from your daughter.

Good luck.


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## janefw (Jun 26, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> Maybe that's all a big lie on his part and he threw away the computers because he's got child porn on them. It fits the general theory that he molested your daughter.
> 
> I mean, if nothing else, I'd think if he tried to screw you in the a$$ while you're asleep it would be enough to wake you up.


I have to say that I agree with this. My immediate thought on the story about what he did to you when asleep, was how the heck would you not wake up if someone was having anal sex with you? You would wake up at the time, or - if you were that fast asleep - you would have discomfort the next morning. 

It sounds to me like a smokescreen too. I can't imagine anyone throwing away a computer, other than they committed something that is _criminal _on it.

In this scenario, I would be talking to a lawyer SO fast. And I would be divorced as quickly as he or she could make it happen. Regardless of whether he molested your child, he is a sick individual.

Oh, and your daughter is probably too terrified to talk about it right now. I'm sure there have been threats. Once you are clear from him, get her into counseling. Poor baby.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You need to search your house up and down. If they say anything about this type of behavior, he has mementos of his acts. If he kept that crap for three years he has a stash somewhere.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

I would get a lawyer ASAP who specializes in this. It sounds like a lot of lies to me. I think he 
He sounds like a very sick person.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ChangingMe (Oct 3, 2012)

I agree. There is no part of your story that doesn't give me a sick feeling. There are way too many disturbing issues here. And to me there are 2 major points. 

1. The less important one: Do you stay married to this guy even if he didn't molest your daughter? NO. If what he says is true, he has raped you and done things to you while you were passed out. This is not behavior that will end, but will actually more than likely escalate. You don't "snap out of this" behavior. It's a sickness, and over time you need more and more in order to get off. Don't stick around for this. 

2. Most importantly, I agree that there is a high probability that he has something to do with your daughter's acting out. Kids don't inherently know sexual acts. They may explore out of curiosity, but it is pretty easy for a well-trained professional to be pretty certain that a child has been either involved or exposed to sexual abuse based on what sexual play they are taking part in. Your husband throwing out the computers is a HUGE red flag. Tell the police. Tonight. Or at the latest tomorrow. I get that yo want to keep this about your daughter, but they need to know what he told you, so that they can question him and see if his story changes. 

Take care of that little girl (though it truly does sound like you are). Not sure where you live, but if you haven't already, find an advocacy center or a sexual abuse agency where she can get play therapy and they can hopefully figure out what's gone on. Have her examined by a Sexual Assault Nurse Examiner (that's what they're called in my state). They should be able to determine if penetration has taken place, at least. 

I am beyond sorry that you are in your situation. It makes me cringe and breaks my heart. I am a licensed counselor who has worked at a sexual assault agency, as well as spent time doing playing therapy with foster kids. I've dealt with this, but as a professional. My own daughter is 3, and what you're experiencing is my worst nightmare. I will say this though: kids are resilient, much more so than I believed before I worked with foster kids. Especially if they have a parent who believes them and protects them. Regardless of what's happened, your daughter can survive this and, if she gets the help she needs, overcome it and thrive.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

I'd be packing my bags. I'll bet there was a lot more on his thrown away computers than he is admitting to and what he is admitting to is rape.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Not good,
Absolutely not good!

This story is sickening , and he needs professional help which might be out of your capacity.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

It's gone on for years, there is no "might," it is way out of her capacity.


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