# Help



## Alilttlelost326

I'm losing my mind, so my wife if 8 years told me whe wants to see other men. (Been together for 14) we have 2 kids, for her to open up like this to me I cant just shut her down. You tell some no they just do it behind your back, ... so she says not sex at first just wants to come home to me and go out but eventually sex. She has never been with any one else and she fears she will hate her self if she waits doesn't try, I did that stuff when I was younger, but I'm afraid do I let her do this? I would like a women's perspective if possible but any thing will help.


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## Bananapeel

Dude, usually when a woman says this she's already cheating or already has someone else picked out. If she really wanted to explore an open marriage she'd figure out a way to do it with you as a couple in ways that you both might enjoy not just her as an individual. Does she have any special close male friends? Is she hiding her phone?

My ex-wife brought up swapping with another couple. I told her no and found out later she was already F'ing the other dude and just was trying to assuage her guilt by getting my approval. Had I approved she would have re-written history (i.e. lied) and blamed her affair on me approving of opening up our relationship. 

The best way to handle this is tell her no and tell her that if she wants to F other guys you'll file for divorce tomorrow so she can do it as a single woman as much as she wants.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

No you dont let her do that, unless you have **** fantasies. You dont think you would mind some Chad filling her vag with his DNA and then come home to you, her good dependable beta provider? 

But then again, I dont think she is looking for permission here. She has an itch and wants it scratched. Strong possibility she is already getting it scratched. I think your marriage may be over. That's a hell of a thing to overcome.


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## Evinrude58

You want help: you want us to tell you how you can work this out and stay married. Nobody can help you there. 

As said, your wife is probably 90% or better already found herself a sex partner. That partner she knows is not long term, reliable, doesn't want her for his wife. So she has him for sex and romance, you for security and a housework and a wallet.

I'll give you some advice, knowing it's a hard pill to swallow.

GO see an attorney and file for divorce. YOU DON'T HAVE TO DIVORCE IF YOU FILE. Have her served with divorce papers.

There will be two possible outcomes: 

1) She will say, "you know what, I think I agree that we should divorce". So you divorce her, it was going to happen anyway.
2) She will go ballistic, see that you are not a man she can walk over, not a man that shares his wife, you are a man that has some balls, you are serious about having a safe, monogamous marriage where you NEVER are willing to share your wife---she then at least hides her trysts with other men from you and you can go a few more years without hating yourself. So you avoid divorce for a while at least. So that's my help.

Sir, your wife has no respect for you if she comes to you asking to have sex with other men. She has no love for you if she desires this.
That combination is a death knell for any marriage. 

IF, (when) you act like a doormat and let her do this, you will earn zero respect from your wife. She will find some stud that pushes her buttons and likes her enough to "marry" her (at least for a year or two), and she will tell you she loves you but is not in love with you and then she'll dump you like a ton of bricks.

So time to man up. Under no circumstances do you beg or plead or ask for anything. You DO things and let her react. Let her react first to a set of serious divorce papers. But you won't do this, or she wouldn't have asked in the first place. Am I right?


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## Alilttlelost326

That's why I'm going for a womans perspective, she never hides her phone, doesn't like and just now I found out she has some in mind, going for a point of view that doesn't end in divorce


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## Yeswecan

Alilttlelost326 said:


> I'm losing my mind, so my wife if 8 years told me whe wants to see other men. (Been together for 14) we have 2 kids, for her to open up like this to me I cant just shut her down. You tell some no they just do it behind your back, ... so she says not sex at first just wants to come home to me and go out but eventually sex. She has never been with any one else and she fears she will hate her self if she waits doesn't try, I did that stuff when I was younger, but I'm afraid do I let her do this? I would like a women's perspective if possible but any thing will help.


Sure, she can do whatever she likes...when she is not your W any longer. This nonsense of stating she my hate herself for not doing some other dude is the same reasoning you may
hate yourself for not having group sex with the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. It is called respect for each other and the marriage. No should be your answer. If your answer is yes...kiss your marriage goodbye.


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## Bananapeel

Most likely you'll get divorced no matter what you do, the question is how much pain you want to endure along the way. The best way to minimize the chance of divorce would require you to put your foot down and stop it before it happens. Once you open Pandora's box you can't close it and go back to where you were before. Plus by agreeing to her letting her F other men you are being a doormat and she won't respect you as a man, which will kill your relationship. 

From a neutral observer perspective what you are valuing doesn't make any logical sense. You want your wife and marriage so much that you are considering letting her destroy it under the guise that it will save it. You are also using the argument that she'll just do it behind your back, which isn't a logical argument unless you accept her infidelity as a normal part of your relationship and an action that wouldn't result in any significant consequences. 

I'd recommend that you read the married man's sex life primer and learn how to re-attract your wife so she isn't thinking about other dudes.


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## brooklynAnn

Here is my thoughts on your other thread.

Never was in your wife's shoes. However, my husband would show me the door if ever, I hinted at this.

As a wife, making this suggestion to my H says the following:

*** I have lost respect for you, therefore you are no longer worth my attention.

*** I no longer find you attractive but because you are a good father and a good husband, I will keep you around to care for the kids, while I have some fun.

*** You no longer satisfied my sexual needs and or emotional needs, I will find it somewhere else, while you hold the fort.

You might want to think on what makes your wife wish to indulge in this type of relationship and would you be allowed to date other women? Or do you just sit around and mind the kids while she ****s other men?????


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Alilttlelost326 said:


> That's why I'm going for a womans perspective, she never hides her phone, doesn't like and just now I found out she has some in mind, going for a point of view that doesn't end in divorce


Someone once said, you got to be ready to lose it to save it. This is one of those thing where compliance is a lose lose. She will lose respect in you and you will lose her fidelity. Then she will divorce you after she finds a better option. Hold firm and let her know, that infidelity is a one way ticket to divorce. Maybe she will respect your backbone. I know you have 2 kids to think about, but this isn't something you negotiate about, unless you are willing to be a water cooler joke.


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## Decorum

Alilttlelost326 said:


> That's why I'm going for a womans perspective, she never hides her phone, doesn't like and just now I found out she has some in mind, going for a point of view that doesn't end in divorce


I was just gong to post, usually they have someone in mind already.

And not just wanting sex but wantig to spend time with him right under your nose is worse.

She just doesn't want the label "cheater" for the rest of her life.

Her disrespect and disregard for you are stunning.

She has one foot out the door already, and wants to try him on for size, and you are her fall back, plan "B".

Your marriage has run it's course, I'm sorry.

Man up, find your nuts, and stand up for yourself.


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## Thor

There is no easy or smooth path out of this one. There will have to be confrontations. There will be unhappiness.

The others are 100% correct that she will lose all respect for you if you even hint at being ok with this. You absolutely will end up divorced after some very unpleasant times if you don't shut her down.

When you tell her you are not ok with this, you will have to endure some histrionics from her. Maybe she'll toss some nasty comments about how you got to experience sex with others, so it is selfish or wrong for you to say no to her. This is where you have to be The Rock.

You should read several books immediately. One is "When I Say No, I Feel Guilty" by M. Smith. It is much more than the title implies. Just buy it and read it. The other is "The Way of the Superior Man". Half of the book is excellent, the other half is New Age mumbo jumbo which I don't buy into at all. But his description of the feminine mind is excellent. Your local library may have this one. 

Another excellent book is the e-book "Women's Infidelity" by Langley. However her price is insane. If you can find a copy at a reasonable price it is something you should definitely read. It will shock you. You will also see how very wrongheaded it would be for you to agree to her having any kind of romantic or sexual relationships outside of your marriage.

The whole Gen X and Millennial philosophy of not judging and of not putting boundaries on others within a close relationship is destructive to marriages. You have every right to judge someone, and you have every right to hold them to your standards. Now she also has every right to decide to leave the marriage if she doesn't like your terms. Just like you have the right to leave if you don't like hers. So if you are thinking it isn't your right to insist she be faithful to you, straighten out your thinking!

My advice is for you to tell her that you in no way can condone her dating or having sex with others while married. Either she commits 100% to being faithful in the marriage or it is time for divorce. If she wants to be in the marriage she has to be 100% in the marriage. I would also advise you to insist on marriage counseling, and to be sure she is making an honest effort there. Finally, I would advise you to start monitoring her to verify she isn't already in an affair and that she doesn't start a secret affair once you tell her no dating. I would use a VAR in her car (carefully secured under the seat with velcro for quick removal) and/or any other place she makes phone calls. I would use a GPS tracking device on her car (may be able to plug it into the OBDII port under the dashboard). I would install a keylogger on the family computer if she goes online. Tracking her phone is a little more difficult to do secretly. GPS position as well as capturing text messages would be helpful, but you need to do your research to be sure it can be done without her detecting it. Some of this may not be legal where you live. Personally I would do it even if illegal to protect the marriage and family, but you should be aware and make your own decisions.


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## Thor

Now that my kids are out of the house, if I were married I would probably just file for divorce if your situation happened to me. Seriously. I might look her in the eye and say I'd agree to an open marriage, but in the end I couldn't stay with a woman who is having sex with other men.

You have to ask yourself why would she stay with you? She isn't feeling sexually fulfilled with you. She is feeling her life is lacking. Maybe she just doesn't find you attractive anymore. So why stay? To use you. To use you for child care, for chores around the house, for your income, for the public image of being married, for social status, for keeping up appearances with her family. 

I can tell you my biggest mistake over 25 years of marriage once my first child was born was my Prime Directive that Divorce is Not an Option. This takes away all power to effect any meaningful changes. Since divorce must be avoided at all costs, you must avoid the really tough discussions because you cannot risk her deciding to divorce. And you have to be careful with even small issues because those could become big issues if you push to hard, and then it could devolve to divorce.

Divorce is not so easy when you have kids. We all here know that first hand! If you want to avoid divorce you do need to be willing to risk divorce. If your Prime Directive excludes divorce as an option, you will have to choose between watching your wife go out to date (and screw) other men, or being divorced when she decides she wants to. She can always divorce you. Don't forget that. Letting her go out with other men will almost certainly lead her to lose all love and respect for you, and then she'll divorce you.


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## Thor

One more thing to add. Your wife is already unfaithful to you. She is breaking her marriage vows. Go back and review what you both agreed to. It wasn't simply not to bang other people, it was to love, honor, and respect. Whatever your specific vows were, they meant you were to be loyal to the other person in every way.

I think you are rationalizing for her. You are excusing her. This is because you want to avoid something really unpleasant, which is divorce. Yes, every human has desires. Every human will at some point be attracted to someone not their spouse. A loyal person will know it can never happen, and will know they don't honestly desire to follow through on the attraction. We can all fantasize about jumping in bed or being on a romantic date with some super attractive person, but when we really think about it we know it goes against our values and against our long term goals. That is when the loyal person seeks to put those thoughts out of their mind.

Your wife is being unfaithful by pursuing these thoughts. It is good she has talked to you about it, but that doesn't make her plans acceptable. Giving her the benefit of the doubt, it could just be immaturity and some early mid-life crisis. Working with a MC it may be possible to turn this around. There may be role playing or creative dating which could help her get through this feeling of missing out on something. Maybe you need to look at some self improvement, though be careful not to think this is your fault she wants to have an open marriage (on just her side). But maybe you could benefit from a better diet and more exercise. Maybe your grooming or clothing needs updating. Maybe you need to work at being a more involved and interesting partner. Again, don't blame yourself but do always try to be the best you can be.

Stages Men Move through After Discovering their Wives? Affair | Women's Infidelity

Read the whole page. The bottom part is right on the mark.


> Note: The stages above describe the natural sequence of events that occur for men who don’t take the initial, first step to saving their marriages, which is to let go completely. In fact, there is really only one difference between men who save their marriages and men who allow their situations to proceed into long-term limbo. Men who save their marriages “decide” to save and rebuild their marriages. Men who allow their situations to proceed into long-term limbo “decide” to ride out their feelings; which is exactly what their wives have decided to do.
> 
> When we decide to ride out our feelings in a relationship, we are choosing to let our feelings die. So, the decision that we are actually making from the onset is to end our relationship—slowly.


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## farsidejunky

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chillymorn69

Call a lawyer and file for divorce. Serve her and when she asks why tell her your not interested in sloppy seconds!

Or put your tail between your legs and act like your cool with some other dude ,dudes shagging your wife.


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## Thor

You should have a mod merge your 2 threads. Having it split across 2 threads in 2 forums makes it difficult to have a cohesive conversation.


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## Emerging Buddhist

farsidejunky said:


> Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


...then set a clear boundary that you can succeed with.

If you set one you cannot stand by, the spiral down will be uglier than it currently looks.

Hold her to her words she promised when you married, or free her from them.

It may seem different from your perspective, but she holds little power in this...


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## Marc878

Alilttlelost326 said:


> That's why I'm going for a womans perspective, she never hides her phone, doesn't like and just now I found out she has some in mind, *going for a point of view that doesn't end in divorce*


Is the marriage worth letting her screw other guys while you babysit a home?

You sound extremely weak and passive. You don't change your doormat attitude you are going to get walked on and destroyed.

What marriage are you trying to save? I don't see one.

Better wake up


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## Lostinthought61

Alilttlelost326 said:


> I'm losing my mind, so my wife if 8 years told me whe wants to see other men. (Been together for 14) we have 2 kids, for her to open up like this to me I cant just shut her down. You tell some no they just do it behind your back, ... so she says not sex at first just wants to come home to me and go out but eventually sex. She has never been with any one else and she fears she will hate her self if she waits doesn't try, I did that stuff when I was younger, but I'm afraid do I let her do this? I would like a women's perspective if possible but any thing will help.



Aliitle....where did you end up going with this conversation with your wife?


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## 3Xnocharm

Tell her to go ahead with the other men... then you pack her bags and file for divorce. Period. Why are you even here questioning? This should not require any kind of thought!


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## Mr.Married

The truth is you have already lost her.


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## EveningThoughts

You wanted a woman's perspective and as I went through similar feelings and thoughts as your wife, I thought I would quickly summarise mine.

I had these feelings when I was with my 1st partner but fought them. 
With my husband they didn't surface again until we had been together for about 23 years and it was when my sex drive was through the roof. 

There was no other man (I've never been attracted to any other men ever before this). I had not lost respect for my husband at the time. In fact we were in a great place. 

But my body, mind and soul had this huge hunger for more experience. I would feel physically sick knowing that I would never get to touch another person sexually. At no point did I want to end my current relationship.

I spoke many times with my husband about it, but there was little we could do to help me. I had to fight my sex drive as that was the main driving force at the time, closely followed by my thoughts. 

It was a huge battle and one that took its toll on both of us. Being less sexual has helped and we had a compromise where I could flirt online. 

Please don't mention the divorce word. It should never ever be said unless you really mean it. My husband was firm with me but once he mentioned divorce I lost a lot of love for him.


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## aine

Alilttlelost326 said:


> That's why I'm going for a womans perspective, she never hides her phone, doesn't like and just now I found out she has some in mind, going for a point of view that doesn't end in divorce


Woman here and I cannot for the life of me understand why you would want to stay with a woman who wants to be with someone else? Do you think so little of yourself? Why are you not enough for her?

Go get the divorce papers, you will find someone who makes you feel good about yourself, someone who you look forward to coming home to every day, is this what you want?


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## aine

EveningThoughts said:


> You wanted a woman's perspective and as I went through similar feelings and thoughts as your wife, I thought I would quickly summarise mine.
> 
> I had these feelings when I was with my 1st partner but fought them.
> With my husband they didn't surface again until we had been together for about 23 years and it was when my sex drive was through the roof.
> 
> There was no other man (I've never been attracted to any other men ever before this). I had not lost respect for my husband at the time. In fact we were in a great place.
> 
> But my body, mind and soul had this huge hunger for more experience. I would feel physically sick knowing that I would never get to touch another person sexually. At no point did I want to end my current relationship.
> 
> I spoke many times with my husband about it, but there was little we could do to help me. I had to fight my sex drive as that was the main driving force at the time, closely followed by my thoughts.
> 
> It was a huge battle and one that took its toll on both of us. Being less sexual has helped and we had a compromise where I could flirt online.
> 
> Please don't mention the divorce word. It should never ever be said unless you really mean it. My husband was firm with me but once he mentioned divorce I lost a lot of love for him.



Good for you, you maintained self control in spite of your primal urges. There are lots of things in marriage we want but do not follow through on out of respect and love for our spouses. Following through in a self centered way and not exercising self control is what creates all these problems in the first place.


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## Evinrude58

EveningThoughts said:


> You wanted a woman's perspective and as I went through similar feelings and thoughts as your wife, I thought I would quickly summarise mine.
> 
> I had these feelings when I was with my 1st partner but fought them.
> With my husband they didn't surface again until we had been together for about 23 years and it was when my sex drive was through the roof.
> 
> There was no other man (I've never been attracted to any other men ever before this). I had not lost respect for my husband at the time. In fact we were in a great place.
> 
> But my body, mind and soul had this huge hunger for more experience. I would feel physically sick knowing that I would never get to touch another person sexually. At no point did I want to end my current relationship.
> 
> I spoke many times with my husband about it, but there was little we could do to help me. I had to fight my sex drive as that was the main driving force at the time, closely followed by my thoughts.
> 
> It was a huge battle and one that took its toll on both of us. Being less sexual has helped and we had a compromise where I could flirt online.
> 
> Please don't mention the divorce word. It should never ever be said unless you really mean it. My husband was firm with me *but once he mentioned divorce I lost a lot of love for him.*


Interesting to hear a woman's perspective that has had these feelings. I hope you continue posting.
From a husband's perspective, I can't IMAGINE why you would lose love for him at the mention of divorce. I would think if the first few years of your marriage when his drive as really, really high like most men's, you'd have freaked and mentioned the word divorce to him very quickly if he'd asked you if he could be with other women or told you he had urges to do so. (I'm just speculating, you may have a totally diff. point of view). From my perspective, if you'd told me after 23 years of marriage that you wanted to experience sex with other men, I'd have lost my feelings for you. My EX wife told me that (she was already cheating at the time) and I divorced her and felt totally justified, even if I never caught her physically having sex with other men (although I did catch her masturbating while skyping a guy-- though I didn't realize that's what she was doing at the time). 
So your statement there is really odd to me. 
But still interesting.
The proper response (to me) when your wife tells you she wants sex with other men is that a divorce is needed. 
I'm also kind of shocked that your husband agreed to let you flirt with other men online. That is incredibly dangerous to the relationship. It is very easy to become emotionally attached to people online because it's not real life and one only sees what they want to see. Kind of like a book and visualizing what the book is describing. The movie is always not as good as the book, because one's imagination always makes things seem exactly as the individual wants to see them.......
Kind of frightening what you describe... from a husband's perspective. I personally wouldn't even consider letting my wife do that. But I'm glad it is working for you.


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## Tasorundo

I would lose a lot of love for my wife when she told me she wanted permission to sleep with other people.

If my divorcing her causes her to lose love for me, then tough ****.


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## EveningThoughts

@Evinrude58

I can certainly answer all your questions but feel I would be thread jacking.

But in brief, my husband had enjoyed posting pics of me online in the past, so moving towards chat as well was not a big step.
So we are not your conventional couple to start with.

I didn't divorce my husband or even mention it when he caused big problems in our marriage earlier, so for him to mention divorce over something I was not doing was like a double standard to me.


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## Tron

EveningThoughts said:


> Please don't mention the divorce word. It should never ever be said unless you really mean it. My husband was firm with me but once he mentioned divorce I lost a lot of love for him.


Why?

Because he wouldn't let you cheat?


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## EveningThoughts

@Tron

Again I don't want to thread jack.

But that is not the reason why.

Also, at no point did I want to cheat as that goes against my very being. I have been cheated on but I will never cheat.


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