# An Ex Resurfaces



## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex. 

We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.

I recently was contacted by a former girlfriend (from 20 years ago) out of nowhere. She’s married with kids. We were in love for years and had incredible sex together. I literally haven’t thought about her in years and we don’t have any current friends in common. She said she thinks of me fairly often, sometimes dreams about me and just wants to know how I am.
Our talk was personal, nostalgic and we both discussed our lives. I never suggested my marriage has any problems. She said her marriage was ok. Nothing more. She said she’d like to see me with a group of old friends. No mention of spouses. She didn’t flirt with me but was very interested in catching up.

Two questions: 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her? 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?

Any other general thoughts welcome.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MassDaddy said:


> I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.
> 
> We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.
> 
> ...


Who knows what the ex is up to. It doesn’t matter nor should you find out. You have neglected your marriage for at least six years and want to blame your wife for your discontent? Own your feelings. Discuss the situation with your wife honestly. If she doesn’t want sex because you’re “not nice” and you’re “not nice” because she isn’t interested in sex, should you be married?

If you want to create new rules, new boundaries that allow each of you to go outside of your marriage for sex, be honest about it with your wife. Don’t cheat. Have some integrity.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Don’t.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Forget the ex, her wanting you to meet up without spouses is a big red flag. 
Your wife needs to know that you can't live in a marriage with no physical affection or sex and request that she goes to MC with you. She clearly feels you don't treat her well so that is something you need to address.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Exes are exes for a reason, keep them out of your life.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

MassDaddy said:


> I’m confident she hasn’t cheated.


 Uhuh



> I have asked for sex many times


🤦‍♂️ Sigh



> claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.


 Hahahha



> We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.
> 
> I recently was contacted by a former girlfriend (from 20 years ago) out of nowhere. She’s married with kids. We were in love for years and had incredible sex together. I literally haven’t thought about her in years and we don’t have any current friends in common. She said she thinks of me fairly often, sometimes dreams about me and just wants to know how I am.
> Our talk was personal, nostalgic and we both discussed our lives. I never suggested my marriage has any problems. She said her marriage was ok. Nothing more. She said she’d like to see me with a group of old friends. No mention of spouses. She didn’t flirt with me but was very interested in catching up.
> ...


If you insist in no divorce despite your marriage being dead for six years - just make it official then, as you are already *live-in co parents* - so open up the marriage.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

This can't go well. Does your wife know the ex? Could this be a set up?


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

I would ask your wife to accompany you to councelling and perhaps see her doctor about her lack of sex drive. Your current situation is not good.Add in an old flame and boom........an affair begins.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Tested_by_stress said:


> I would ask your wife to accompany you to councelling and perhaps see her doctor about her lack of sex drive. Your current situation is not good.Add in an old flame and boom........an affair begins.


Or he gets suckered in to providing his wife evidence for a divorce?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

MassDaddy said:


> My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.
> 
> We get along ok but not great. I still love her,
> 
> ...


I have no idea if the EX is reaching out to you for an affair but it doesn't matter. You are unquestionably reaching toward this EX for an affair. Yes it's wrong for you to have an affair. If you want to have sex with others get a divorce, don't cheat. 

But here's a better idea. You say you still love your wife. She has told you that you are not nice enough to her for her to be willing to have sex with you. Have you really thought about that? What is it that you are doing to her or not doing to her that makes her this withholding? What efforts have you made to address her needs & be nicer to her on a daily basis so that she wants to have sex with you? Perhaps put more effort into loving your wife then chasing some EX


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MassDaddy said:


> Two questions:
> 
> 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her?
> 
> 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?


1. We can speculate until the cows come home but only she knows the reason. 

2. Yes, it is wrong for anyone to have a sexual relationship with someone else while married - unless they have an open or poly relationship. So, if you want to stick your **** in someone else then you have two choices: End the marriage, or ask for an open marriage (which will likely cause the former). 

You chose to stay in a sexless marriage for this long. If you want to change that then do it the right way.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

MassDaddy said:


> Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?


Yes, and yes.

Why don’t you consider a divorce? Then you at least have hope of finding a woman who wants sex with you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If she has outright rejected you for 6 years straight, then who cares what you do? Does anything really matter? 

What if you get caught? What's she going to do - cut you off??? Be mad at you? 

She already hates you and has no feelings for you other than resentment and contempt. 

Realistically will she even care? Will she even notice or is she so detached from you that she will simply be glad that you aren't around as much and aren't bugging her for sex anymore?

Would she divorce you if she finds out? Would you really care if she did? 

Or would she be relieved that you are parking your boner somewhere else and she'll want you to keep paying the bills and rent? 

Your marriage is already dead in the water, she already hates you and thinks you're an A-hole. What happens if you cheat and get caught - - she'll think you're more of an A-hole??? 

I mean what does she care? she doesn't want to touch you anyway and it's not like your going to give her herpes or anything. 

And if this is what is need to push one of you over the edge to grow some balls/ovaries and finally get a divorce, then I say go for it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> Divorce is not being considered.


That's you're main problem right there.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You wife refuses to have sex with you.
She says you are not nice enough.
This is a serious allegation, is it true?

She does not want a divorce, yet (more or less) says you are a lousy husband.
You do not want a divorce, yet are receiving no intimacy, no sex with her.
I can only assume you are taking care of yourself with your hand.
I can only assume she is taking care of herself with her hand, or has an AP.

Neither of you want to divorce, yet plod miserably along.
Your wife resents you a lot. Again, why?

Why will you not divorce her?
Is it because of the children?

This other woman (obviously) is considering rekindling your former intimate relations.
You probably gave her those vibs that you are interested in her. 
Yes, you did.

Cheating will be rewarding until you get caught, and you will.
Two families will be destroyed, (or further ruined).

When you wife finds out you have been cheating, she will divorce you.
And she will now have a REAL reason to resent you.

Why not get the needed divorce out of the way and then date single women and resume sexual intimacy.

And/or, your ex lover can do the same (divorce) and then all is (complicated) but more proper.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> This can't go well. Does your wife know the ex? Could this be a set up?





MattMatt said:


> Or he gets suckered in to providing his wife evidence for a divorce?


While that might make an entertaining Lifetime Network movie, that's a lot of unnecessary work and espionage. He has an american flag by his name so she doesn't need evidence if she wants a divorce, she just needs to fill out the paperwork and pay the fees. 

If she's willing to go through that kind of trouble to scheme and scam in order to prove he's the A-hole, then he either falls for the bait, she divorces him and he is a free man that go out and screw whatever he wants and do whatever he wants. 

Or he's the good little boy and passes her test so he gets to stay in a dead marriage and continue to be rejected for another 6 years by someone that can't stand him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> I I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.


OK, let's all break this down and talk about this a little more in depth. 

Her saying he's nice enough to have sex with him is one of two things -

One is that he is the A-hole and is a drunkard and abusive and neglectful and nasty. 

The other is that he is spineless simp that spends his days chasing his tail trying to appease her and make her happy and like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown every time she has him convinced she'll play nice, he can never seem to appease her enough and she just wants more. 

So let's look at what information we have starting with the fact that they haven't had sex in 6 years and she has her heels dug in that she will NOT be entertaining that idea. Would an A-hole go 6 years without sex???

He says he has "asked" for sex many times but she says no. Do A-holes "ask" for sex?

They have been married for 17 years and the sex has never been good. Do A-holes stick around for 17 years with bad sex?

The way he has clung on to hope that this ex wants to bang him, leads me to believe he has not cheated before or has only done so very rarely in the distant past if at all. Would an A-hole have gone 11 years of bad sex and 6 years of no sex without getting some tail elsewhere?

He is questioning whether the ex has an agenda and is questioning whether this would even be cheating or not. Would an A-hole question the morality and would an A-hole even question her motives or not??

And would an A-hole even take the time and effort to write to a marriage and relationship forum about the intentions of an ex contacting him and the ethics of getting with her, or would an A-hole have had her legs over his shoulders within days of her contacting him if that was her intent??????

So when she says he needs to be "nicer", what does she really mean? Does she mean he needs to stop coming home from the bar and pushing her around and quit picking up bar flies for BJs in the parking lot and at least picking up a jug of milk on his way home where there is no food in the house?

Or does it mean he's not picking the blades of grass out of the cracks in the sidewalk the way she wants him to and he doesn't tuck his shoelaces in his shoes the closet the way she showed him time and time again??


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Openminded said:


> Don’t.


Don’t.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Or does it mean he's not picking the blades of grass out of the cracks in the sidewalk the way she wants him to and he doesn't tuck his shoelaces in his shoes the closet the way she showed him time and time again??


It means neither. It is "blame-shifting"....



MassDaddy said:


> Sex has always been a problem


Yep. Always has been, always will be. This thing about you "are not nice enough" is complete unadulterated (or, quite possibly, adulterated) horse$hit. The TRUTH is, your wife HAS NEVER been attracted to you sexually. This may have to do with another man to whom she WAS attracted but who didn't meet the "checklist" of being a candidate for marriage, family, responsibility, debts, and bills, and who would enable her to:



MassDaddy said:


> She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids.


Of, course, she is "willing", because that was her complete goal in marrying you.



MassDaddy said:


> Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?


Yes, it is wrong, and yes, it is cheating. You promised your wife that you would UNCONDITIONALLY keep yourself "only unto her". Stay there.

Actually, what your wife has done to you is every bit as wrong, every bit as adulterous, every bit as reprehensible, as it would be for you to cheat. She has LIED to you. But, see, it wouldn't have worked very well for her to have come before the JP, Priest, etc., and said "....MassDaddy, I want to have a house and kids. Could you please provide me the money and physical protection, support, maintenance, and be a baby daddy for me ?? I will give you sex enough times to get pregnant......but since I don't want sex with you, I won't continue after MY desires of life are satisfied. From then on, I will leverage the LEGAL SYSTEM to keep you providing.....".

In my mind, her actions qualify you for a divorce, and should qualify you for a 100% FINANCIAL WALK away from her. But, that's only MY mind. In many US states,what your wife has done constitutes abandonment. The finances and kids, however, will be subject to the court's opinion.



MassDaddy said:


> I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does.


For these things I suggest, you begin TODAY, to:
1) you can love her if you want. I have nothing to say about that. However, I hope you stop, because you will be happier when you do.
2) you should completely REJECT ANY DOUBT and ESPOUSE TOTALLY that your wife DOES NOT "love" you;
3) you should completely ignore what your wife says, and trust completely in HER ACTIONS. Your wife is a con artist who is blaming you for something which is ENTIRELY HER FAULT.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Don’t let yourself get caught up in this, OP. Your situation with your wife is sad but, that’s not a green light to cheat.

I would not reply anymore to your ex and block her if you must. Cheating will ruin your life, and it will only serve to distance you even more from your wife.

The ex may be just looking to simply stroll down memory lane with you but the more time you invest in talking to her, the less you’ll be invested in your marriage. Hope you choose wisely.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> If she has outright rejected you for 6 years straight, then who cares what you do? Does anything really matter?
> 
> What if you get caught? What's she going to do - cut you off??? Be mad at you?
> 
> ...


He said he has four kids and thus this isn't just about him and his wife.

What if his kids find out? Is this the type of man he wants to show his kids that he is?

What if he got the other woman pregnant?

What if the OW husband found out and started banging on his door to confront him in front of his kids?

What if his wife found out and started telling his parents, his sibs, his friends, people at work?

His wife is dug in on the no sex. If he's a man of character and a good father, he does one of two things. Either gets into counseling with his wife to address her comments of he's "not been nice to her", to see if this may change things, and if it doesn't then he either accepts that being in a no sex marriage is just the way it is OR he ends the marriage because he wants to have a marriage with intimacy.

He has to look at himself in the mirror and like who and what he is and the decisions he makes. He does NOT do what cowards do and that's sneaking around and cheating not just on his wife but risking blowing up his kids world.

OP, all this OW was doing is fishing to see if there's a crink in your marriage and if there is she could start to share what's wrong with her marriage as well and the two of you start to get close to one another and you know where this heads.

How much longer do you think you can go in a sexless marriage? Do what you have to do to "try" and fix it and if after doing this (counseling) you find that it's not you have a major decision to make.

Our lives are about the choices we make. Don't choose to be a coward and cheat on your wife even if it's sexless. Your wife finds out you cheated and she divorces you trust me your kids are going to blame you for their family being blown up.

If you get into counseling, and things don't change, yes you could still divorce, and as far as your kids are concerned it will be about other issues NOT that you cheated on their mom.

Choose wisely how you move forward.


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

Answering some questions:

my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.

the four kids are little and require hard work. She is a great mother and I’m a good father. She says I could do more around the house. We have argued. Never anything violent just a few unkind words.

we never had sex prior to marriage. She was a bit resistant to sex on honeymoon but she said yes twice. During our first year of marriage she refused to have sex for a six month period. Her reason was that it didn’t feel good - physical problems. She refused to do anything about it (never saw a doctor). she sort a of raised that as a reason not to have sex for a few years on occasion but on other occasions cited other reasons. For a few years we had sex about 5-10 times. She instigated it twice during our marriage when she wanted children 

On the few occasions we had sex she’d jokingly make fun of me just a little the next day. She hates any type of foreplay and absolutely refuses to discuss our sex life. in 17 years she’s never been willing to discuss it at length at all .

I suggested marriage counseling but she said we should only talk to her parents about our marriage or a close friend of theirs. I don’t want that.

A good friend of mine describes me as a great father and a good husband - but not great. He describes my wife as an amazing mother but disinterested wife. She’s extremely well liked and always very kind to others. My friend Said I’m an A father, B husband. Says she’s an A+ mom, C/D wife. Everyone we know loves her.

Prior to marriage I had several long term girlfriends. Very healthy relationships with excellent sex. They just weren’t the ones. As I said my wife never had a boyfriend but no premarital intercourse. she had no real dating life. she’d fool around with guys that were interested in her but zero sex. The odd part is guys didn’t ask her on dates. Only hook ups. She has always had many friends and makes them very easily.


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

Here’s my advice: 

Initiate divorce. Tell everyone it’s for sexual abandonment. Tell your kids their mother broke the covenant.
Tell your ex you’re initiating divorce due to sexual abandonment. Tell her if she also has reason to divorce to do so, and you’ll connect when you’re both single.
I urge you to not model a vacuous marriage to your kids. You’re setting them up for failure in their future relationships if you stay in this farce of a marriage.


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## sideways (Apr 12, 2016)

Sounds like your wife used you as a sperm donor because she wanted to have kids and also uses you as a provider. So all you are/were to her is a means to get sperm and $$.

And you want to stay in this marriage why???


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## gr8ful1 (Dec 3, 2016)

MassDaddy said:


> She was a bit resistant to sex on honeymoon but she said yes twice. During our first year of marriage she refused to have sex for a six month period


These were EPIC red flags you ignored. For anyone young reading this, he should have dealt with this immediately and WAY before agreeing to have children with this sex-averse woman.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

sideways said:


> He said he has four kids and thus this isn't just about him and his wife.
> 
> #1: What if his kids find out? Is this the type of man he wants to show his kids that he is?
> 
> ...


#1: Do you mean show them that he is a living, breathing, autonomous human being that has needs going beyond being an ATM and domestic servant that has no life other than serving them?? Yeah, that would be a terrible thing to show them that a man can't go a mere 6 years with no love or intimacy before he acts up. 

#2: A Google search will show that there has been this thing called contraception that has come about in the last 60 years or so. 

#3: That is a risk he needs to take into account and see if he's willing to risk that. 

#4: First off, most won't give a hoot. Others will wonder what took him so long. A few will high five him and pat him on the back for finally doing something. and a few will just roll their eyes and shake their heads. 

The follow up question is what would HER friends and family think about it once they find out she has browbeat and rejected him for 6 years? 

#5: I do agree with you on most of this. He simply needs to grow a pair and get a spine implant and take some affirmative action to address his dead marriage and pathetic existence. I agree It's better to take positive action before doing drastic. But in the big scheme of things, if his hots for this other chick are what gives him the motivation he needs to take action, then so be it. 

#6: A couple things here. I agree with the mirror thing and that is where he is at now. I question the assumption that she will divorce him over this however. She obviously doesn't like him and repulsed at the thought of any intimacy with him and says he not nice to her. But yet she's not divorcing him. that means she is in it for the money and his labor and child care assistance. 

So will she even care if he is playing hide the sausage with some other chick? Will she be downright relieved and welcoming of not having him bugging her all the time? 

As far as the kids, in the big scheme of things, they need to learn about cause and effect. Yeah the ol' man got with some other chick. But is it in their best interests to grow up thinking that a man is only there to be a work horse, hand over his paycheck and be a domestic servant and babysitter the rest of his life without having his own wants and needs addressed??

If the dude is an A-hole, they'll be glad to see him gone and they'll be better off for it. If he is a loving and supporting father, they need to see that loving and supportive fathers have needs too and there is no reason he can't continue to be a loving and supportive father after the divorce if it comes to that.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> #1: Do you mean show them that he is a living, breathing, autonomous human being that has needs going beyond being an ATM and domestic servant that has no life other than serving them?? Yeah, that would be a terrible thing to show them that a man can't go a mere 6 years with no love or intimacy before he acts up.


He can teach them that, while also teaching them that if you are in an unhappy marriage you LEAVE - you don't cheat. 

Kids also won't give a flying **** about their dads sex life, all they will see is their father is a cheater. As adults, maybe they would understand. As kids, nope. 



oldshirt said:


> #2: A Google search will show that there has been this thing called contraception that has come about in the last 60 years or so.


That same Google search will tell you that those methods are not 100% effective. And don't say it's more effective when both partners are using birth control because someone who is willing to sleep with a married man isn't reliable or trustworthy.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MassDaddy said:


> Prior to marriage I had several long term girlfriends. Very healthy relationships with excellent sex. They just weren’t the ones. As I said my wife never had a boyfriend but no premarital intercourse. she had no real dating life. she’d fool around with guys that were interested in her but zero sex. The odd part is guys didn’t ask her on dates. Only hook ups. She has always had many friends and makes them very easily.


Well, that's kind of what I thought too. Same story my wife gave me. And only after marriage I'm told she'd be fine with sex once or twice a month, if that (she was great at fooling around prior to marriage, and we did have sex (prior to marriage), but everything fell apart from the moment we did).

Imagine an alternative scenario. Imagine if she had a different past from what she told you, a past she wanted to keep secret. A double life that she hid from family and church, due to shame. Suppose she wasn't the person she claimed she was, on your honeymooon. Suppose she was racked with guilt over having had sex with a guy (or guys, in my case) prior to you, that she'd kept secret. Imagine having sex with you and having to pretend like you'd never had sex before. How awful an experience would that be for that person? And every single time sex comes up, it would bring up negative connotations for her, because it would remind her of the things she'd hidden from you, things she doesn't want to admit to. 

Not saying this is the case for you, but there could be some trauma, self-induced (it doesn't always have to be from coercion), regarding sex, that she brought into the marriage. Especially if she comes from a religious background.

She needs individual counseling to deal with whatever she's dealing with. This requires a compassionate approach on your part, at least initially. I'd also do some background work on her past. My wife didn't come around until I actually talked with one of her ex's (from 40+ year ago!!!) and her story just blew to pieces.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

gr8ful1 said:


> Here’s my advice:
> 
> Initiate divorce. Tell everyone it’s for sexual abandonment. Tell your kids their mother broke the covenant.
> Tell your ex you’re initiating divorce due to sexual abandonment. Tell her if she also has reason to divorce to do so, and you’ll connect when you’re both single.


No one is entitled to know why someone else divorces. No reason to point fingers at the mom to the kids. 

"We no longer wanted to remain married together.." is good enough.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MassDaddy said:


> I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.
> 
> We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.
> 
> ...


1. Likely yes

2. Only if your wife — along with your ex’s husband — is unaware of it and not OK with it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> Answering some questions:
> 
> my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.
> 
> ...


In other words, you two are roommates and coparents. 

Any reason you can't remain good coparents without being roommates so each of you can move on to find people you are compatible with? 

The Bible Brigade will tell you that divorce will "destroy the children" and they will cite statistics from faith-based agenda organizations that show kids have problems after divorce and that they will always be harmed by the divorce regardless of the circumstances or conditions. 

Children are harmed by abuse, neglect, abandonment, alcoholism/drug abuse and living in an environment of chronic hostility and resentment, fighting etc. 

Children are not harmed by two loving and supportive children that happen to live in separate houses. 

You married a very low sex, darn near asexual woman that had no sexual attraction or desire for you. You've never had a good sex life and now you have had NO sex life for SIX YEARS. This is dead in the water. You got nuth'n to work with here. 

Your options are -

- continue to spank to porn and live the rest of your life sexless and without intimacy.

- Declare yourself sexually emancipated and open the marriage and see what you are able to obtain on the side as a married man. 

- incur and accept the risks of sneaking around on the down low and take your chances. 

- Divorce and date and hook up however you want and however you are able. 

Those are your options. Each has it's own costs and benefits and risks and rewards.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Tested_by_stress said:


> I would ask your wife to accompany you to councelling and perhaps see her doctor about her lack of sex drive. Your current situation is not good.Add in an old flame and boom........an affair begins.


We don't know that she has a lack of sex drive. She's made it clear he's not nice enough to her that she wants to make love to him. Seems clear enough to me.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If your hoping you get a pass to cheat with your ex, if she’s interested (and that may or may not be what she’s looking for), you don’t.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

MassDaddy said:


> Two questions: 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her? 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?
> 
> Any other general thoughts welcome.


1. yes
2. It's not wrong if you expressed your dissatisfaction to your wife and she chose to do nothing about it. At that point, I wouldn't feel guilty about having sex with someone else. Perhaps that might kick her into gear.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> We don't know that she has a lack of sex drive. She's made it clear he's not nice enough to her that she wants to make love to him. Seems clear enough to me.


Read post #22.

It's not that he's not "nice enough". That's just an excuse.

Her sexuality has always been warped.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

Somebody really warped her brain about sex. She's got hang-ups so deep you don't understand them. Still doesn't justify cheating. 

You need to go to MC & she needs to talk to someone about how she has twisted sex from something beautiful between two people who love each other into something to be feared & avoided because it's uncomfortable. You aren't going to persuade of her of this without real professional help.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

This is your fault for tolerating this for so long. Sex is an expectation (actually a key foundational pillar) of marriage.

Clearly your wife is either 1. asexual (she’s not, that’s extraordinarily rare), or 2. just not sexually attracted to you.
Either way, it’s unacceptable in a marriage and she has broken your marriage vows.

why have you tolerated this for so long? It’s your responsibility to ensure that your needs are being met in your marriage. It’s your responsibility to decide what your expectations are and what you will and will not accept in your marriage. It’s your responsibility to lead your marriage.

Unfortunately, it seems pretty clear that you’ve been passive and not leading in your marriage. Women despise weak, passive men and almost always treat them poorly.
Your wife is not following your lead, does not respect you, is not attracted to you and won’t **** you. That’s not a marriage dude.

The point is, you need to take control of your disinterested wife/sexless marriage situation and either drastically improve it, or disengage from it and divorce, before worrying about the ex girlfriend.
You have a lot of work to do on yourself and possibly your marriage if you choose to.

You need to take the next six months (at least) and focus on becoming the kind of man who would not tolerate a passionless, sexless marriage and a disinterested wife.
At that point, you’ll be in a much better position to make good decisions, and hopefully have the strength and confidence to change or leave your current situation.

I’ll probably have a lot of people disagreeing with me on this last point but I would keep the ex girlfriend around, but on hold.

Engage with her casually online. Keep it friendly and don’t start an affair with her. That will only make things worse. 
Your marriage situation is very bad, and having options (or developing the ability to have options) is actually extremely important for your ability to fix or leave your current situation. Just don’t do anything stupid in the meantime.


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> This is your fault for tolerating this for so long. Sex is an expectation (actually a key foundational pillar) of marriage.
> 
> Clearly your wife is either 1. asexual (she’s not, that’s extraordinarily rare), or 2. just not sexually attracted to you.
> Either way, it’s unacceptable in a marriage and she has broken your marriage vows.
> ...


I think you make an excellent point that some of this is of my own making. I let it happen. Fundamentally she never changed. She just downshifted from rarely to never agreeing to sex.

I have wondered if she may be gay. By her upbringing, the worst thing a person can be is gay. The second worst thing is being sexual.

what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MassDaddy said:


> I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.
> 
> We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.
> 
> ...


Are you really asking if it's ok to nail another man's wife?


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

ConanHub said:


> Are you really asking if it's ok to nail another man's wife?


I suppose I’m wondering if that’s why she resurfaced. Obviously it’s not ok to sleep with a married woman. It’s been 17 years and I’ve never done anything like that. Total fidelity. But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MassDaddy said:


> what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.


Infidelity is infidelity. If you want to have sex then you need to end your marriage or tell your wife you want an open marriage. 

Why would you be without your children? You would likely get 50/50 custody. Let's not be dramatic, it will suck at times but you won't die.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MassDaddy said:


> I suppose I’m wondering if that’s why she resurfaced. Obviously it’s not ok to sleep with a married woman. It’s been 17 years and I’ve never done anything like that. Total fidelity. But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.


As to the piece of wood posing as your wife, you have been far to accommodating.

If I go a month without, I'm revved up enough to chew lead and spit bullets.

You really do need to end this sham of a marriage and get a woman that actually has a pulse.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.


Dude! Nut up!!! 

Your sex life is already over and will be forever if you allow it to be and you sit on your hands doing nothing and accepting this sham of a marriage. 

Why is divorce out of the question?? 

Divorce is divorcing your wife and dead marriage, it's not divorcing your kids. 

Most places are default joint custody so unless one parent is determined to be unfit by the court or they relinguish their parental rights. 

With 50/50 you can still be a very involved parent with physical custody half the time and then on her days you can get out and have a life and do things and hang with buddies and get back into some hobbies and be able to date and find someone that actually likes you. 

The reason you feel the kids are all that you have in life is because that what you have allowed to happen and you have lost your own self.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> I suppose I’m wondering if that’s why she resurfaced. Obviously it’s not ok to sleep with a married woman. It’s been 17 years and I’ve never done anything like that. Total fidelity. But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.


You never had a sex life with her. She achieved conception with you when she wanted offspring. 

You have been nothing more than a paycheck, a domestic servant, a sperm donor and assistant child care provider for her.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

You don’t understand.
Trying to find ways to get sex and intimacy on the side, while remaining in your passionless sexless marriage is unfulfilling, destructive and weak. It is a fool‘s errand as a long-term strategy.

The point is you need to be strong enough to leave this marriage. It’s not a real marriage and it’s clearly not acceptable to you.

You can either try to improve your marriage or leave it. The good news is that the plan is the same either way.
You need to improve you. You need to work on yourself, you need to work on becoming the kind of strong confident man who leads his own life boldly and unapologetically, and who leads in his marriage and expects a passionate marriage. And who will end that marriage if his wife is unwilling to be a full and enthusiastic participant.

Sneaking to sex workers is a weak, cowardly way to get your sexual needs met. That is unless you plan to tell your wife that’s what you’re doing, And in that case, skip the sex workers and just get a girlfriend.
If your approach is “wife, since you have no interest in ****ing me, I’m going to find a girlfriend who will.” - I still don’t recommend that route (yet).

That said, divorce being off the table is ********. I assume that’s based on your religious leanings, but it is ******** and it is absolutely incorrect.
As a person of faith, I have never been involved in any church that does not recognize the right and necessity of divorce in some circumstances (including adultery and long term refusal of sex/intimacy).

And no, you won’t die without your kids. It’s very plausible to get 50-50 custody and see them almost as much as you do now. I realize it’s not ideal (even tragic) but it’s far better for everyone than where you’re at now. You’ll be a much better father and show them a much stronger example to follow by not allowing yourself to passively waste your life in a passionless sexless marriage.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

MassDaddy said:


> But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.


The answer is yes. But there is a lot of faulty teaching about married sexuality. Your wife may be following a traditional view held in her family-of-origin. The unfortunate part about this is that these beliefs can be staunchly held-to when people don't want sex. Your wife believes that depriving you of sex is "ok". She needs to be instructed that it is not "ok".

Many people feel that their body is their own, and they have a "right" to be sexual as they chooise. However, The Bible instructs otherwise to married people. The Old Testament laws were very clear that married people had an obligation to provide sex for each other. So does the Apostle Paul in the New Testament.

The unfortunate part about this is that many people are never taught BIBLICAL Christianity, even by their churches. Any Christian pastor worth his salt (and, who is indeed interested in being salt like His Lord commanded of him) would make sure there was a complete understanding between the applicants for his marriage declaration that neither of them was to withhold sex from the other, for any reason, except "brief times of prayer and fasting".....as the Bible instructs. Sickness, contagious situations, temporary circumstances may intervene in the sexual marriage from time to time, but they should be clearly the exception, and not the rule.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TJW said:


> The answer is yes. But there is a lot of faulty teaching about married sexuality. Your wife may be following a traditional view held in her family-of-origin. The unfortunate part about this is that these beliefs can be staunchly held-to when people don't want sex. Your wife believes that depriving you of sex is "ok". She needs to be instructed that it is not "ok".
> 
> Many people feel that their body is their own, and they have a "right" to be sexual as they chooise. However, The Bible instructs otherwise to married people. The Old Testament laws were very clear that married people had an obligation to provide sex for each other. So does the Apostle Paul in the New Testament.
> 
> The unfortunate part about this is that many people are never taught BIBLICAL Christianity, even by their churches. Any Christian pastor worth his salt (and, who is indeed interested in being salt like His Lord commanded of him) would make sure there was a complete understanding between the applicants for his marriage declaration that neither of them was to withhold sex from the other, for any reason, except "brief times of prayer and fasting".....as the Bible instructs. Sickness, contagious situations, temporary circumstances may intervene in the sexual marriage from time to time, but they should be clearly the exception, and not the rule.


They've never had a good sex life and she has consistently rejected him for 6 years (I am assuming since the conception of the last child) 

This is not a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of biblical sexuality. 

It's that she doesn't like him, is not attracted to him and does not desire him.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> They've never had a good sex life and she has consistently rejected him for 6 years (I am assuming since the conception of the last child)
> 
> This is not a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of biblical sexuality.
> 
> It's that she doesn't like him, is not attracted to him and does not desire him.


The potential misunderstanding / misrepresentation is that OP seems to think he shouldn’t divorce over it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MassDaddy said:


> I think you make an excellent point that some of this is of my own making. I let it happen. Fundamentally she never changed. She just downshifted from rarely to never agreeing to sex.
> 
> I have wondered if she may be gay. By her upbringing, the worst thing a person can be is gay. The second worst thing is being sexual.
> 
> what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.


Cheating is cheating and no you won't die if you don't have your children all the time.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question.


What you are doing here whether with sex workers or an affair with your ex is you are essentially trying to have sex with other people in order to remain in your dead marriage with the dead fish that does not want to be with you. 

Do you at least see the irony and contradiction there????

Do you at least see that you are compromising your own values and morals and subjecting yourself to all of the pitfalls of humiliations of having to pay for sex or cheating with a married woman, in order to STAY in a very toxic and unhealthy relationship that probably should not have ever been in the first place and that should have ended many years ago.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> The potential misunderstanding / misrepresentation is that OP seems to think he shouldn’t divorce over it.


If you are assuming that his refusal to divorce is based on religious convictions, I'm not so sure. 

He hasn't said a word about religious beliefs or convictions or anything pertaining to religion at all. 

He hasn't even directly indicated that she even has any religious beliefs or convictions that are influencing her sexual disinterest. He said that she was brought up to believe that being gay was bad and being sexual was bad, but he has not said a word about religion. 

If there are no strong religious convictions at play here, then it is a self-esteem and self confidence issue in that he does not think he can do better or deserves better or will be able to get anyone else. 

If not due to religious conviction, it's weakness and lack of initiative and confidence.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> If there are no strong religious convictions at play here, then it is a self-esteem and self confidence issue in that he does not think he can do better or deserves better or will be able to get anyone else.
> 
> If not due to religious conviction, it's weakness and lack of initiative and confidence.


All of this is exactly the issue either way, that’s the point.

The point being made is that the religious argument (in a case like this) is a BS excuse and most religious people know that. It’s an excuse not to take action and do the scary thing


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I disagree with staying in touch with your ex. Affairs don’t happen over night, they’re a slow fade. I feel bad for you OP, but you should end your marriage before you do something you’ll regret. I agree with the others about being passive. In a way you thought that you were keeping the peace but in another way, you’ve lost respect and attraction from your wife.

Marriage isn’t a prison sentence, stand up for yourself to your wife. If she neglects you even more, then you may have to consider leaving. Hope things get better for you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@MassDaddy

Is your wife a stay-at-home-mom (SAHM) or does she work outside the home?


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi OP.
Instead of talking to your ex behind your wife's back... talk to your wife about your sexless marriage.
How many more years does she wish to have no sex in her marriage? Ask her this.
Difficult conversation? Oh yes, can be about as difficult as it gets in a marriage. 
It's going to be up to you to do something about this. Tell her a sexless marriage is unacceptable to you, make this clear to her. You can try to discuss alternatives, such as you with sex workers.

The alternative to breaching this topic with your wife - status quo, sexless marriage, you pursuing other women like you ex behind your wife's back. You don't risk separation or divorce in the near term, but it's probably there in the long term.

Sorry for the state of your marriage OP.


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> @MassDaddy
> 
> Is your wife a stay-at-home-mom (SAHM) or does she work outside the home?


She works outside home


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> She works outside home


which means she has an income and means to support herself which reduces or even eliminates your obligation to pay spousal support. 

At least meet with a divorce attorney to get a good picture of what your rights, entitlements and responsibilities would be in the event of a divorce and find out what measures you can take to best protect your assets and relationships with the children. 

This would be wise whether you contemplate divorce yourself or get with this other chick which could lead to divorce should she find out and want to dump you or whether you decide you want to dump her after discovering what it's like to be with someone that actually likes you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Has your wife told you what it is that you do that makes her not want to have sex with you? What's her viewpoint on this?

Do you have your wife spend time together doing things that you both enjoy, just the two of you? If so what sort of things do you two do and how often do you two do them?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

MassDaddy said:


> Answering some questions:
> 
> my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.
> 
> ...


Have you guys even discussed your love languages?

I'm guessing acts of service is her highest and touch is her lowest?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

MassDaddy said:


> 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her? 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?


Yes and yes.

You have two choices - end the marriage or suck it up and deal. I personally wouldn't waste money on counselling. You shouldn't have to go to counselling for your spouse to sleep with you.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

frusdil said:


> Yes and yes.
> 
> You have two choices - end the marriage or suck it up and deal. I personally wouldn't waste money on counselling. You shouldn't have to go to counselling for your spouse to sleep with you.


Agreed, counseling will NOT fix this.

He needs to get himself together, get a lot stronger and more confident, and move on. If she happens to come around and start enthusiastically ****ing him, MAYBE he could consider working on the marriage (1 in 1 million, but you never know).

Or he could just suck it up as you put it. And live the rest of his life as a sad involuntary celibate, in a sad marriage with a wife who doesn’t respect or desire him.

I think the best choice is pretty ****ing obvious, but that’s OPs call. We see what he has continually chosen thus far…


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> Who knows what the ex is up to. It doesn’t matter nor should you find out. You have neglected your marriage for at least six years and want to blame your wife for your discontent? Own your feelings. Discuss the situation with your wife honestly. If she doesn’t want sex because you’re “not nice” and you’re “not nice” because she isn’t interested in sex, should you be married?
> 
> If you want to create new rules, new boundaries that allow each of you to go outside of your marriage for sex, be honest about it with your wife. Don’t cheat. Have some integrity.



just curious, how do you come off and say that OP has neglected his marriage ? It sounds like to me that his wife has neglected the marriage by being sexless and then gaslighting him. Just because she says 'he's not being nice' Doesn't mean he's 'not being nice'. 

Plus just mentioning the possibility here of open marriage is horrible. Those relationships aren't pursued by 95 % of the people and of the 5% who try it, their divorce rates are horrific. This guy doesn't need to be screwing other women. He needs to take steps in order to fix it. He is not alone in sexless marriages but many do fix them and I feel he needs to have a ganeplan. BUT she is responsible for neglecting him sexually too.


ccpowerslave said:


> Yes, and yes.
> 
> Why don’t you consider a divorce? Then you at least have hope of finding a woman who wants sex with you.


Yes this !!!


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> Agreed, counseling will NOT fix this.
> 
> He needs to get himself together, get a lot stronger and more confident, and move on. If she happens to come around and start enthusiastically ****ing him, MAYBE he could consider working on the marriage (1 in 1 million, but you never know).
> 
> ...


agreed


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> You never had a sex life with her. She achieved conception with you when she wanted offspring.
> 
> You have been nothing more than a paycheck, a domestic servant, a sperm donor and assistant child care provider for her.


amen


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

wmn1 said:


> just curious, how do you come off and say that OP has neglected his marriage ? It sounds like to me that his wife has neglected the marriage by being sexless and then gaslighting him. Just because she says 'he's not being nice' Doesn't mean he's 'not being nice'.
> 
> Plus just mentioning the possibility here of open marriage is horrible. Those relationships aren't pursued by 95 % of the people and of the 5% who try it, their divorce rates are horrific. This guy doesn't need to be screwing other women. He needs to take steps in order to fix it. He is not alone in sexless marriages but many do fix them and I feel he needs to have a ganeplan. BUT she is responsible for neglecting him sexually too.


@Casual Observer is correct, the OP has been neglectful and asleep at the wheel. He has allowed this to go on for many years without addressing the issues or holding her or himself accountable for the breakdown of the marriage. 

She has never been into him sexually and only had sex for conception to get children out of him. 

She got what she wanted out of the marriage and since he has not addressed his discontent with her or the marriage, it is questionable on how neglectful she has been. 

In terms of open marriage, that is also a legitimate topic for discussion. She has made clear through word and deed that she does not want a sex life with him. There for he is well within his right to divorce her or if neither he nor she wish to divorce, then he is within his right to seek his needs elsewhere outside of the marriage. 

I understand people's urgings for him to try to "fix" this. But read his posts, when he did ask to seek MC, she refused MC and said they could talk to HER PARENTS instead. 

So you tell me - is there any hope for marriage that has never had an active sex life and has been completely sexless for 6 years and she would only agree to discuss their marital issues with her parents? 

This is a dead end and a done deal.


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> Has your wife told you what it is that you do that makes her not want to have sex with you? What's her viewpoint on this?
> 
> Do you have your wife spend time together doing things that you both enjoy, just the two of you? If so what sort of things do you two do and how often do you two do them?


My wife is steadfast in her refusal to discuss her reasons for not having sex. I’ve literally tried talking to her for the last 12 years about it. She has gotten up and left the room. I sent her a letter in the mail to impress upon her the importance of it. She just told me that she loved me but wasn’t willing to discuss it.

my sense is she is well aware she can’t justify her behavior towards me and therefore won’t discuss it. She just said on a few occasions in the past four years that based on my attitude I didn’t deserve sex. She refused to be specific. Will she ever have sex with me again? How could I know that?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> We don't know that she has a lack of sex drive. She's made it clear he's not nice enough to her that she wants to make love to him. Seems clear enough to me.


I'd agree with this, BUT he stated later -- she really has NEVER been in to sex.
She AGREED to have sex 2ce on their honeymoon? Ummm, yeah, NO. If at no other time, she should have been banging him until the cows came home.

I think she has a very warped sense of sexuality and what it means to a marriage.
She's probably been told it's only for having kids her entire life, so....


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

EleGirl said:


> Has your wife told you what it is that you do that makes her not want to have sex with you? What's her viewpoint on this?
> 
> Do you have your wife spend time together doing things that you both enjoy, just the two of you? If so what sort of things do you two do and how often do you two do them?


We do very few things together. We get along pretty well but I’m not that interested in doing things with her anymore due to building resentment. We do lots of things with our children


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> My wife is steadfast in her refusal to discuss her reasons for not having sex. I’ve literally tried talking to her for the last 12 years about it. She has gotten up and left the room. I sent her a letter in the mail to impress upon her the importance of it. She just told me that she loved me but wasn’t willing to discuss it.
> 
> my sense is she is well aware she can’t justify her behavior towards me and therefore won’t discuss it. She just said on a few occasions in the past four years that based on my attitude I didn’t deserve sex. She refused to be specific. Will she ever have sex with me again? How could I know that?


Well tell her that since she can't discuss your sexual issues, then you need to sit down and discuss divorce.
If she willfully doesn't communicate, YOU can't solve the problem by yourself -- she flat out just doesn't want to.
PLEASE see a lawyer first to determine how things would work out financially, child support/custody, etc.. At least this way you have a plan.
Oh, DO NOT pull the divorce card unless you are completely prepared to follow through.
She will probably try to pull her parents into this at which point you can tell them that she refuses to have marital relations, and refuses to discuss it. A marriage without sex isn't a marriage (unless there are medical issues..).


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

MassDaddy said:


> My wife is steadfast in her refusal to discuss her reasons for not having sex.


Of course, she is.... she will LOSE, and she will LOSE BIG TIME if she tells you the truth. You will dump her like a used Kleenex.



jlg07 said:


> I think she has a very warped sense of sexuality and what it means to a marriage.


And, she has a very self-centered and sinful attitude that she is "entitled" to a marriage in which she TAKES everything and GIVES nothing.



jlg07 said:


> PLEASE see a lawyer first to determine how things would work out financially, child support/custody, etc..


This is good advice.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

wmn1 said:


> just curious, how do you come off and say that OP has neglected his marriage ? It sounds like to me that his wife has neglected the marriage by being sexless and then gaslighting him. Just because she says 'he's not being nice' Doesn't mean he's 'not being nice'.
> 
> Plus just mentioning the possibility here of open marriage is horrible. Those relationships aren't pursued by 95 % of the people and of the 5% who try it, their divorce rates are horrific. This guy doesn't need to be screwing other women. He needs to take steps in order to fix it. He is not alone in sexless marriages but many do fix them and I feel he needs to have a ganeplan. BUT she is responsible for neglecting him sexually too.


He neglected the marriage because he allowed this to go on so long that he can rationalize having an affair. That part is on him.

I don’t believe in open marriage by the way. I don’t consider that a true marriage. The point was to make him understand that would be the only alternative, since he doesn’t want to divorce her. How would his wife feel about that?


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

MassDaddy said:


> I have wondered if she may be gay. By her upbringing, the worst thing a person can be is gay. The second worst thing is being sexual.


This is why counseling may help. She was taught sex is bad. This isn't about her being attracted to you. She genuinely thinks she shouldn't have urges & she thinks you are warped because you want sex. 



MassDaddy said:


> what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over. Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.


Your sex life never got started but it doesn't matter if you pay for sex outside your marriage or get in through an affair. It's still cheating. Marital vows say forsaking ALL others' there are no exceptions for prostitutes. 

Divorce is not out of the question. You simply don't want to divorce. You are making a choice to never have sex again because you don't want to leave somebody who has broken her vows to you for years. It's called marital abandonment. 




MassDaddy said:


> My wife is steadfast in her refusal to discuss her reasons for not having sex. I’ve literally tried talking to her for the last 12 years about it. She has gotten up and left the room. I sent her a letter in the mail to impress upon her the importance of it. She just told me that she loved me but wasn’t willing to discuss it.


I suspect that religion plays a huge role in your wife's screwed up views about sex so go talk to her minister & get that person to give her permission. I am envisioning an intervention type situation where you ambush her with the minister so she can't say no to talking. Her refusal to talk to you s childish & petty. You really need to tell her that if she doesn't talk to you with an eye toward fixing things you will divorce. Getting out of this sham of a marriage is your best option. I get that you don't want to divorce so that makes you are condemned to a life of celibacy. That is your choice but it is a choice. By staying married you are accepting this.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> He neglected the marriage because he allowed this to go on so long that he can rationalize having an affair. That part is on him.
> 
> I don’t believe in open marriage by the way. I don’t consider that a true marriage. The point was to make him understand that would be the only alternative, since he doesn’t want to divorce her. How would his wife feel about that?


Fair enough, I misread you.

I too am absolutely opposed to open marriage. I too feel it's not a true marriage. Not at all.

Regarding your first point, I see now where you were getting at. Yes, he allowed it to go on too long and he should have fixed it or should have gotten off the pot. Also his thoughts about not only having an affair but also with a woman who is married and with kids is highly disturbing. 

To him, if his marriage is a mess, why destroy another family because of you and your wife's own failures. 

To me, while it is somewhat common, I think there's more to her withholding sex than 'you're not nice enough to me' or religion. Her refusal to talk speaks volumes but that is a hunch right now.

My advice to him at this point is to not cheat, stop begging for sex and simply lay down the law and say to her that she is not filling her complete role in the marriage by withholding sex without a reason adequate to him and the marriage can't last that way and leave it at that. If she fails to come around, get a D or accept lifelong celibacy.

Thanks for the response


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> I'd agree with this, BUT he stated later -- she really has NEVER been in to sex.
> She AGREED to have sex 2ce on their honeymoon? Ummm, yeah, NO. If at no other time, she should have been banging him until the cows came home.
> 
> I think she has a very warped sense of sexuality and what it means to a marriage.
> She's probably been told it's only for having kids her entire life, so....


I wonder how the sex life was before marriage ? Did she get married under false pretenses and then go cold or was she this way before marriage and he just accepted it which would be on him


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> @Casual Observer is correct, the OP has been neglectful and asleep at the wheel. He has allowed this to go on for many years without addressing the issues or holding her or himself accountable for the breakdown of the marriage.
> 
> She has never been into him sexually and only had sex for conception to get children out of him.
> 
> ...



I agree it's a dead end and that the OP is complicit in being asleep at the wheel.

I would like to know how their relationship was pre-marriage because if she was fine to him sexually back then, he got baited.

I disagree with you about open marriage. I am completely open marriage and it will cause more problems. Especially with another married woman.

Fix it or divorce but don't bring other women into this nightmare. 

I do agree with you that it appears unfixable so why beat a dead horse and keep trying. 

Personally, there is something up with her that isn't being revealed IMO but it is what it is.


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## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

wmn1 said:


> I wonder how the sex life was before marriage ?


Non-existent. She was a virgin & was brought up to believe sex was bad.


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

MassDaddy said:


> I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.
> 
> We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.
> 
> ...


Your ex is looking for a parachute and she has selected you. Out of the blue she reaches out to you after 20 years. Her options are few. You can pursue this course but you will trade one disaster for another. Nothing more.

Cheating is cheating regardless the circumstances. 

You do not want to divorce. If you take another woman into your bed your wife likely will not give you the choice.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

MassDaddy said:


> But I do wonder if my wife has abandoned her marital vows to me when she unilaterally brought an end to my sex life.


IF sex is about "marital vows" and your problem is about "your" sex llife THEN and IMO marriage is a fake and also would be sex even if frequent.
A sexless relationship is also a loveless one if not also based in mutual desire.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

marko polo said:


> Cheating is cheating regardless the circumstances.


THIS


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

OP
You both were wrong in choosing each other.
Fix the choice and (both) learn to do it better.
In any case, do not cheat.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

D0nnivain said:


> Non-existent. She was a virgin & was brought up to believe sex was bad.


We only know her claims that she was a virgin prior to marriage. OP says she did have a history with guys trying to have hook-ups with her, which she fought off. So she says. Imagine a guilt-ridden person, someone who'd gone secretly against their beliefs and engaged in sex and felt that what they'd been taught was that they'd ruined themselves for marriage because of it. So instead they pretend it never happened, perhaps believing that everything will be fine once married, but instead every sexual act brings back the need to repress what had gone on before. Sex becomes the enemy, something to be avoided at all costs, a reminder of things gone wrong.

We're talking trauma of an extreme nature. It happens. Don't ask me how I know.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

He addresses this in an earlier post.

She would not have sex with him prior to marriage and then was reluctant to have sex on the honeymoon and would mock and ridicule him the next day after sex.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP

You are 45 years old.

Why post about this?

You KNOW none of this good. You KNOW you shouldn't talk to her etc.

So your sex life with your wife sucks. Fix it or stay like it is or divorce her.

You are intentionaly choosing to go down the WORST path and you know this.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

MassDaddy said:


> my sense is she is well aware she can’t justify her behavior towards me and therefore won’t discuss it. She just said on a few occasions in the past four years that based on my attitude I didn’t deserve sex. She refused to be specific. Will she ever have sex with me again? How could I know that?


Does your wife really say you don't "deserve" sex? Because that is some serious gaslighting. Whatever her issue is, it's her issue. Making this out as if it were somehow your fault is definitely toxic. 

If your wife isn't interested in discussing it, then you can't fix it. It's out of your hands. If you aren't interested in living this way, then go see a lawyer. Or continue living with her in a sexless marriage.


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## bygone (11 mo ago)

Your wife said it wasn't good enough to make her want sex!
Are you sure that your wife is not in a relationship with others? Did you ever check it out?

Many sites have articles of people who had a relationship with their om/ow for 10/20 years or until their om/ow died.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

D0nnivain said:


> Non-existent. She was a virgin & was brought up to believe sex was bad.


I just wonder why he married her then ? He has to take some responsibility for it.

I think I found his story on Reddit.

Regardless, sick situation


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

wmn1 said:


> I just wonder why he married her then ? He has to take some responsibility for it.
> 
> I think I found his story on Reddit.
> 
> Regardless, sick situation


My story is not on Reddit. I do take responsibility. I’ve already said that in a prior post. That’s why I have lived with it. I married her because I love her. I didn’t know this would happen. All marriages are a gamble…


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

MassDaddy said:


> My story is not on Reddit. I do take responsibility. I’ve already said that in a prior post. That’s why I have lived with it. I married her because I love her. I didn’t know this would happen. All marriages are a gamble…


It's true that you didn't know this would happen, and it's not the case with every marriage that waits until marriage. _However_, the red flags were coming up as early as your honeymoon. This "marriage" could have ended shortly after it began, and certainly before children entered the picture.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> My story is not on Reddit. I do take responsibility. I’ve already said that in a prior post. That’s why I have lived with it. I married her because I love her. I didn’t know this would happen. All marriages are a gamble…


All marriages are a gamble. 

But some things stack the odds in your favor or against you. The fact she would not have sex with you prior to marriage, was reluctant to be intimate with you on your honeymoon, would mock and ridicule you after the few times you did have sex and only wanted to have sex for conception should have been major clues. But yet you continued to plant babies in her and have remained with her for 17 years, 6 of which have been completely sexless. 

But that is all water under the bridge and without a time machine, you can't go back and change that. 

But tomorrow is a new day,,, You can change the course of your future. Just because you made mistakes in the past does not mean you are condemned to continue with those mistakes. 

The one thing that is worse than 17 years of a dead marriage is 17 years and a day.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

What's actually stopping you from divorcing her? Maybe that's a good place to start to sort your head out.

-You love her? Everyone loves her? Well, what you're getting isn't from her isn't love. I don't even know what to call it. What's with the ridiculing you next day? Wow! Dunno how you've put up with that. 
-Money? More complicated for sure. But is divorce impossible?

You're tempted to have an A, otherwise you wouldn't be here.
Don't do it, if for no other reason that if she finds out and you divorce, you'll get the worst possible outcome. If you don't divorce, your life will be 100 times worse than it is now, forever. You want to walk into another marriage just for sex? Think of the kids of OW, not her. You gonna do that to them? and their Dad?
You well know all the other reasons you shouldn't.
She's married yet she's putting out the warmies to you. Frankly she ain't a good alternative. I'd stay a million miles away.
Just my thruppence worth.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

bobert said:


> It's true that you didn't know this would happen, and it's not the case with every marriage that waits until marriage. _However_, the red flags were coming up as early as your honeymoon. This "marriage" could have ended shortly after it began, and certainly before children entered the picture.


The religious community has played a big joke on the world in getting people to believe that no one should have any kind of sexual relations prior to marriage, but if they manage to hold out that they will miraculously be blessed with a wonderful sex life after marriage. 

To that, the OP was duped to a degree and sold a bad bill of goods by a greater conspiracy. He and countless other chumps. 

Going forward I think the big clue on whether someone who is waiting for marriage due to strong religious convictions vs simply being a sexual dud is how comfortable and content are they waiting. 

If it doesn't bother them a bit and they are perfectly fine to wait until the marriage and they have no trouble keeping you at arm's length and keep saying to wait until the wedding etc etc etc - they are simply either a sexual dud or they do not have any genuine desire for you. 

On the other hand if they are yearning for touch and they making out with passion and their body is burning to melt with you and they are sincerely struggling to hold out until the wedding,,,, and heck there are even people that ascribe to the "Poophole Loophole" ,,,,,, there is at least some hope. 

But if they are content to wait, push you away at arm's length at any kind of physical intimacy and are not bothered at all by not having sexual contact - Run Forest Run!!!!!!!


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MassDaddy said:


> I’m a 45 year old husband married 17 years with 4 children. Sex has always been a problem and my wife has left me sexless (zero) for last six years. My wife is healthy, pretty but has no physical interest in me. I’m confident she hasn’t cheated. I have asked for sex many times but she always says no and claims I’m simply not nice enough to her to make her want to have sex.
> 
> We get along ok but not great. I still love her, but doubt she loves me, although she says she does. For obvious reasons I resent her satisfaction with not having sex or any physical intimacy with me. She is very willing to never have sex with me and just raise the kids. Divorce is not being considered.
> 
> ...


The answer to number two is: Yes it is cheating. Just tell your wife if she doesn’t want to have sex with you that you will find it somewhere else. That you are finished being in a sexless marriage.

Sorry but, most stories about a sexless marriage turn to the one refusing sex having or had an affair.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MassDaddy said:


> My wife is steadfast in her refusal to discuss her reasons for not having sex. I’ve literally tried talking to her for the last 12 years about it. She has gotten up and left the room. I sent her a letter in the mail to impress upon her the importance of it. She just told me that she loved me but wasn’t willing to discuss it.
> 
> my sense is she is well aware she can’t justify her behavior towards me and therefore won’t discuss it. She just said on a few occasions in the past four years that based on my attitude I didn’t deserve sex. She refused to be specific. Will she ever have sex with me again? How could I know that?


She is in love with the guy she is cheating with. She won’t cheat on him by having sex with you.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

MassDaddy said:


> My story is not on Reddit. I do take responsibility. I’ve already said that in a prior post. That’s why I have lived with it. I married her because I love her. I didn’t know this would happen. All marriages are a gamble…


I apologize, sir. There is a post on Reddit that matches yours. I should not have assumed.

I agree with you that all marriages are a gamble and none are perfect.

I am supportive in every way except cheating, especially with a married woman.

The best move IMO is to divorce and find a single woman who can fulfill your needs.

I do appreciate your loyalty in staying with this situation for so long. She needs to $hit or get off the pot. 

My only question is if you were duped, why did you ignore the warning signs ? However, regardless, you have to react in the situation you are in


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

********** said:


> What's actually stopping you from divorcing her? Maybe that's a good place to start to sort your head out.
> 
> -You love her? Everyone loves her? Well, what you're getting isn't from her isn't love. I don't even know what to call it. What's with the ridiculing you next day? Wow! Dunno how you've put up with that.
> -Money? More complicated for sure. But is divorce impossible?
> ...


this !!! If she's married, and she's putting herself out there, why considering having an affair at all, especially with a cheater


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

ABHale said:


> She is in love with the guy she is cheating with. She won’t cheat on him by having sex with you.


this is often true. Is she using his loyalty and ethical behavior against him by cheating but ensuring he doesn't cheat on her.

I am not saying this is the case but we have seen it here multiple times.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

MassDaddy said:


> Two questions: 1. Do you think old girlfriend is trying to approach me for an affair or was it just a bit of nostalgia for her?


You most likely got a rash of people who claimed affair. But these are more likely from those dealing with scars from past cheating, and see anything even close to this as an affair brewing. It could be either one. People can relish the old days and not desire to relive them today. 



> 2. Is it wrong of me to have a sexual relationship with her in light of my wife’s complete and total refusal to have a sexual relationship with me? Is that really cheating?
> 
> If you are going to do it behind her back and not tell her, then yes it's cheating. Even if your wife is not providing you sex, you are still in the wrong for going behind her back. Now, you still have several other choices. You can ask for an open marriage, and get your sex on the side. Hell you can even tell her outright that since she will not provide that you will go out and get it, and if she doesn't like it, she can leave. A bit heavy handed, but not cheating per se. Or you can leave and then find someone who will provide. Keep in mind that there are those who would claim that other than the third option is cheating as well. In the end, they are your vows or promises or whatever and only you know (others will claim to know but they weren't there) what they were and how dearly you hold them. Only you can define whether engaging in open honest relationships is cheating or in violation of your vows or not.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

MassDaddy said:


> what about having sex with a sex worker instead of an affair with an ex? It’s very hard to think my sex life is over.


Whether it is a sex worker or your ex, my points on your choices still stand. It doesn't matter who it is. To hold it as a secret is wrong and cheating.



> Divorce is out of the question. I literally will die if I don’t have my children. They’re all I have in my life.


You're stuck in old world thinking. If you have done nothing wrong with regards to the children, then there is no basis for any court to deny you access to them. It becomes a matter of who has custody for what lengths of period. Many men are getting custody as women are these days. Dual custody is a valid option, especially if you both can manage to live in the same school district. Many people who are divorcing are realizing that they may not have been good spouses, but they can still be good parents and co-parent without being married or living together. Keep this in mind with regards to your children. They can end up suffering more and learning the wrong relationship behaviors from you two remaining married. Do you really want them to grow up to think that a sexless marriage is a valid working one, and copy the kind of marriage you and your wife currently have?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> We don't know that she has a lack of sex drive. She's made it clear he's not nice enough to her that she wants to make love to him. Seems clear enough to me.


Lol. She refused him sex for 6 months the first year of marriage. If he is such an ass to her, why did she marry him? If he’s such an ass, why did she have 2 kids with him ?

The only thing clear here is that this woman NEVER had any romantic interest in the OP, was strictly marrying him for a sperm donor/walking ATM. And, that the OP has consistently rewarded his shrew with being a good provider while she otherwise ignores him.

OP, your wife has been the same as the day before you married her. Why are you complaining? She never has wanted sex with you! Just accept that or divorce her. There’s not much else you can do.


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## Peering_Within (8 mo ago)

Unpopular opinion perhaps (haven't read all the multitude of replies to this post): I am woman willing to say sex is a NEED. I am fairly sexual and don't get enough from my husband. That's fine--what I do get it great (so Great). That said, if I got none--it would be more difficult. Sex is about reproduction (of course) and really about closeness in marriage. From a religious POV is it a recommitting of the marriage promise. I do think your wife should try to look into endocrine/psychological/etc. causes for her lack of sexual desire. It is unfair to you that she isn't willing to be more giving. It is a spouse's duty to attempt to be there (within reason) for each other. Especially if they expect fidelity--not that you should act on your impulses. That is all kinds of asking for trouble. Ditch the Ex. That's a mess best left alone.


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## Peering_Within (8 mo ago)

I'm 


maquiscat said:


> Whether it is a sex worker or your ex, my points on your choices still stand. It doesn't matter who it is. To hold it as a secret is wrong and cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> You're stuck in old world thinking. If you have done nothing wrong with regards to the children, then there is no basis for any court to deny you access to them. It becomes a matter of who has custody for what lengths of period. Many men are getting custody as women are these days. Dual custody is a valid option, especially if you both can manage to live in the same school district. Many people who are divorcing are realizing that they may not have been good spouses, but they can still be good parents and co-parent without being married or living together. Keep this in mind with regards to your children. They can end up suffering more and learning the wrong relationship behaviors from you two remaining married. Do you really want them to grow up to think that a sexless marriage is a valid working one, and copy the kind of marriage you and your wife currently have?


I understand what OP is saying. I can't bear to think about being away from my children for weeks at a time, even with equal time on custody. And aside from how common divorce is, I know my family will be so different if we split. It is literally two families. I am old school and don't believe in divorce. It isn't "just as good". It has to be sometimes, but I think making it work is best. You can hate on it, but family values developed for a reason.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

As has been mentioned OP, we've seen a few stories where a dead bedroom is because the uninterested spouse is getting laid elsewhere.

Another story where the uninterested wife had contracted herpes thru an affair, and cut off her husband because her infidelity would be discovered if she then had sex with him.

Desperate times, might be worth hiring a PI to find out if she's having an affair.


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Your wife's behavior is highly unusual for a faithful spouse, but not unusual for a cheater. You have to think about the statistics of that.

Have a good look at phone records, her phone itself, etc.

If she isn't cheating and you plan to stay married.... maybe she won't care if you openly (with permission) see others since she has no plans of having sex with you. This is not a healthy example for your kids to model.....

Right now you are co-parents and roomates.... I don't see why you couldn't continue to co-parent and divorce.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Peering_Within said:


> I'm
> 
> I understand what OP is saying. I can't bear to think about being away from my children for weeks at a time, even with equal time on custody. And aside from how common divorce is, I know my family will be so different if we split. It is literally two families. I am old school and don't believe in divorce. It isn't "just as good". It has to be sometimes, but I think making it work is best. You can hate on it, but family values developed for a reason.


Staying in a sexless, passionless, unfulfilling, potentially adulterous marriage out of fear of disrupting the fragile children’s family structure (and probably just fear of the unknown) - is NOT family values. 
Weakness, passiveness, conflict avoidance and sneaking off to get unmet needs sort of met on the side - is not family values.


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## ArthurGPym (Jun 28, 2021)

MassDaddy said:


> She just told me that she loved me but wasn’t willing to discuss it.


But see, that is the thing. She does not love you. A partner who claims to love his/her partner would not refuse them sex for no justifiable reason. Love is an action as well as a verb, and she has not shown you any real love for the entirety of your marriage.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

@MassDaddy

Being a virgin before marriage does NOT suggests that the person is sex-averse. People masterbate for a reason.

Both me and my wife were virgin(s) before marriage by choice, and due to our religious convictions as well. But WE are NOT sex-averse. My wife welcomes intimacy.

Sex-aversion could be due to medical problems, or trauma, or questionable past.

You should try your best to figure out that your wife is absolutely faithful to you, and honest with you. This is important for you to move forward and make a decision about shaping your future.

Try to reach out to your wife's college friends for information (if any). These people might have revelations for you. Also, hire a PI (Private Investigator) to keep tabs on your wife to see if she is clean.

As for your EX, this is not a good time for you to be in touch with her. You are emotionally vulnerable and will end up doing much more harm than good by engaging with her. You have marital problems to address.

So get to work and provide an update about what more you could learn about your wife.


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

To have and to hold. If you can't hold, is it a marriage? What you have is a long term unhealthy relationship which will wear you down. 

Your ex or any other vessel can comfort you, but it's still unhealthy. Best option is to go through the hassle to live separately, and go from there. The option to remain in limbo could take years off of your life. 

T. C. B. 
Begin again, live a new life.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

MassDaddy said:


> My wife is steadfast in her refusal to discuss her reasons for not having sex. I’ve literally tried talking to her for the last 12 years about it. She has gotten up and left the room. I sent her a letter in the mail to impress upon her the importance of it. She just told me that she loved me but wasn’t willing to discuss it.
> 
> my sense is she is well aware she can’t justify her behavior towards me and therefore won’t discuss it. She just said on a few occasions in the past four years that based on my attitude I didn’t deserve sex. She refused to be specific. Will she ever have sex with me again? How could I know that?


This is a very disturbed woman. Something very wrong with her, perhaps stemming from some type of sexual abuse.
You have tried very hard to address this problem but are banging your head against a wall. Not much you can do. She is just too closed off. Consider divorce.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> OK, let's all break this down and talk about this a little more in depth.
> 
> Her saying he's nice enough to have sex with him is one of two things -
> 
> ...


The OP needs to find out why his marriage became dead. he can go have an affair, but the assholery (assuming he is an Ahole, using your words above) will continue and he may get some temporary sex but if he wants a relationship with another person after divorce, he needs to sort our his 'assholery' as other women are unlikely to want to sleep with him either. OP why does your wife say you are not good to her?

I am in the same position, I moved out of the bedroom and have not slept with H for over a year cause he was treating me like **** with his drinking and constant let downs. He has bemoaned the fact but for me enough was enough. Now I am at the point of indifference. He is a weak selfish man who doesn't have the backbone to change, so be it. I wont put up with his walking over my boundaries. Some men treat their wives like **** and think they can do that forever without consequences. I never wanted to lose my marriage, but will no longer be a martyr. Current living arrangements suit me for now. I have thought about cheating, opportunities have been there but will not. He refuses to communicate about anything, so fine with me, we live like passing ships. I am no longer emotionally bonded to him as a result of leaving the bedroom, it hurt like hell initially, all the trauma but now I am free though we still live in the same house. It took a long long time of detaching for me to get to this point and I am happier than I have ever been. 
So OP, my advice is to sort yourself out first. Be a man your wife admires and wants to make love to instead of blame shifting and looking for tail elsewhere. It makes you look like a loser and a man of no character. Have you actually talked to your wife about her concerns, are her concerns valid? What steps have you taken to resolve the issues?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

MassDaddy said:


> Answering some questions:
> 
> my wife thought marriage would be a little different. She thought she was marrying a guy just like her father- who’s a very good guy. I like him. he’s always good to me and my kids. I’m different than him.
> 
> ...


Sounds like your wife has issues surrounding sex, is there a very strict religious upbringing or CSA involved? Maybe time to investigate?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I knew someone years ago who had his stereo system stolen from his car.

His solution was to break into the car of someone else and steal their stereo system.


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

aine said:


> The OP needs to find out why his marriage became dead. he can go have an affair, but the assholery (assuming he is an Ahole, using your words above) will continue and he may get some temporary sex but if he wants a relationship with another person after divorce, he needs to sort our his 'assholery' as other women are unlikely to want to sleep with him either. OP why does your wife say you are not good to her?
> 
> I am in the same position, I moved out of the bedroom and have not slept with H for over a year cause he was treating me like *** with his drinking and constant let downs. He has bemoaned the fact but for me enough was enough. Now I am at the point of indifference. He is a weak selfish man who doesn't have the backbone to change, so be it. I wont put up with his walking over my boundaries. Some men treat their wives like *** and think they can do that forever without consequences. I never wanted to lose my marriage, but will no longer be a martyr. Current living arrangements suit me for now. I have thought about cheating, opportunities have been there but will not. He refuses to communicate about anything, so fine with me, we live like passing ships. I am no longer emotionally bonded to him as a result of leaving the bedroom, it hurt like hell initially, all the trauma but now I am free though we still live in the same house. It took a long long time of detaching for me to get to this point and I am happier than I have ever been.
> So OP, my advice is to sort yourself out first. Be a man your wife admires and wants to make love to instead of blame shifting and looking for tail elsewhere. It makes you look like a loser and a man of no character. Have you actually talked to your wife about her concerns, are her concerns valid? What steps have you taken to resolve the issues?


I do not think we can assume this man behaves like your husband. His posts sound reasonable and his attempts to discuss the issue seem sincere and non-threatening. His wife, OTOH, is just shutting down any attempt to have a meaningful discussion, summarily. 
Some wives, BTW, treat their husbands like crap.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Megaforce said:


> I do not think we can assume this man behaves like your husband. His posts sound reasonable and his attempts to discuss the issue seem sincere and non-threatening. His wife, OTOH, is just shutting down any attempt to have a meaningful discussion, summarily.
> Some wives, BTW, treat their husbands like crap.


Agreed, men and women can be equally cruel and treat spouses badly. 
If you had read my post, it was clear in the opening paragraph that he being an asshole is an assumption (to follow on from an earlier post by @oldshirt , 2 assumptions, (he was bad to her or he was not bad to her).
I never suggested he was bad to her. I simply said in my own case my H is an AH hence my own response.
We also cannot assume that the man has not treated his wife badly either which is what you are doing. People come on here and don't always give the full picture. Hence I agree and followed on from @oldshirt 's post on the possible scenarios. Did you read that post?


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## Megaforce (Nov 12, 2021)

aine said:


> Agreed, men and women can be equally cruel and treat spouses badly.
> If you had read my post, it was clear in the opening paragraph that he being an asshole is an assumption (to follow on from an earlier post by @oldshirt , 2 assumptions, (he was bad to her or he was not bad to her).
> I never suggested he was bad to her. I simply said in my own case my H is an AH hence my own response.
> We also cannot assume that the man has not treated his wife badly either which is what you are doing. People come on here and don't always give the full picture. Hence I agree and followed on from @oldshirt 's post on the possible scenarios. Did you read that post?


Yes, we really do not know.


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## MassDaddy (8 mo ago)

aine said:


> The OP needs to find out why his marriage became dead. he can go have an affair, but the assholery (assuming he is an Ahole, using your words above) will continue and he may get some temporary sex but if he wants a relationship with another person after divorce, he needs to sort our his 'assholery' as other women are unlikely to want to sleep with him either. OP why does your wife say you are not good to her?
> 
> I am in the same position, I moved out of the bedroom and have not slept with H for over a year cause he was treating me like *** with his drinking and constant let downs. He has bemoaned the fact but for me enough was enough. Now I am at the point of indifference. He is a weak selfish man who doesn't have the backbone to change, so be it. I wont put up with his walking over my boundaries. Some men treat their wives like *** and think they can do that forever without consequences. I never wanted to lose my marriage, but will no longer be a martyr. Current living arrangements suit me for now. I have thought about cheating, opportunities have been there but will not. He refuses to communicate about anything, so fine with me, we live like passing ships. I am no longer emotionally bonded to him as a result of leaving the bedroom, it hurt like hell initially, all the trauma but now I am free though we still live in the same house. It took a long long time of detaching for me to get to this point and I am happier than I have ever been.
> So OP, my advice is to sort yourself out first. Be a man your wife admires and wants to make love to instead of blame shifting and looking for tail elsewhere. It makes you look like a loser and a man of no character. Have you actually talked to your wife about her concerns, are her concerns valid? What steps have you taken to resolve the issues?


Very interesting thoughts. It’s hard to honestly self examine. My wife told me many years ago that at no point in her life has she been interested in sexual intercourse with any person. She never masturbated and is extremely religious. She used to hook up with random men at weddings prior to meeting me but refused sex. She never had a boyfriend before me.

I have endured numerous set backs in my life but she has never comforted me. She told me that I should see a psychotherapist if I need guidance and encourages me to take medications. I have been resentful in recent years. She really doesn’t care.

the one thing I haven’t been able to eliminate is to possibility wife is gay. To a very religious person, homosexuality is worse than being a felon. It’s the ultimate sin. She has never indicated any interest in another woman. I noticed a few women flirt with her over the years. She didn’t reciprocate. But her being gay would literally explain everything.

as for cheating, I’d be more open to the possibility if I didn’t personally experience her complete lack of interest in sex at all times since we first began dating. As odd as it seems. I’d prefer her to be cheating, because it would prove she is capable of se and intimacy.

I think the reason she married me is because she had no options and she wanted family and friends to see she could find a husband.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

MassDaddy said:


> Very interesting thoughts. It’s hard to honestly self examine. My wife told me many years ago that at no point in her life has she been interested in sexual intercourse with any person. She never masturbated and is extremely religious. She used to hook up with random men at weddings prior to meeting me but refused sex. She never had a boyfriend before me.
> 
> I have endured numerous set backs in my life but she has never comforted me. She told me that I should see a psychotherapist if I need guidance and encourages me to take medications. I have been resentful in recent years. She really doesn’t care.
> 
> ...


You might want to read Dr Minwalla’s work about the Secret Sexual Basement. Your wife’s past might not be as she says. She may hcreated a false narrative that fits whom she wished to be, something consistent with her beliefs and different from her actions. My wife had two entirely different sides to her, an evening with boys and day as a conservative Christian. No close friends to confide in so she never came to terms with it. 45 years claimed to not have had sex prior to me, only to discover I was #3, maybe #5, who knows. And she has resented sex since, we’ll, the first time. I married her partly out of guilt for taking her virginity.

Random hook-ups with men at weddings? There could be more to that than you believe.

Oh. Almost forgot this. My wife also said she “fooled around with a bunch of guys but never had sex.” Even described herself as a tease before we married.

Your wife could be gas-lighting you big-time, to preserve her preferred image of herself. It may have nothing to do with you.


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## masterofmasters (Apr 2, 2021)

17 years of no sex is absolutely abuse. you should have left her a long time ago.

encourage her to masturbate FFS. even very religious people masturbate. she doesn't. so therefore, she has no idea what makes her orgasm.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MassDaddy said:


> I think the reason she married me is because she had no options and she wanted family and friends to see she could find a husband.


You are probably correct.

So then the question before you is how willing are you to continue to be the chump and the fool?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> I knew someone years ago who had his stereo system stolen from his car.
> 
> His solution was to break into the car of someone else and steal their stereo system.


 I had forgotten about things like that ,


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

She sounds so sad inside. This would be a horrible way to live.


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