# If you men need a women who has cheated in the past point of view



## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Feel free to ask 

I cheated in my first marriage, I was very young (I am only 26 now) 

I am not posting this to start a row about my past behaviour 
But if you are wondering about your wife's behaviour I may be able to help


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Ummm... Thanks. We have quite a few of you to "learn" from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

You start, Post away. Was it easy the first time and why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I'd say if you truly want to help, post how your infidelity ruined your marriage and the fallout that became of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tryingtobreath (Jan 2, 2013)

If it were an affair, did you sense yourself disconnecting from your husband? Did you ever feel like "sh!t, what have I done?!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Did infidelity end your marriage ?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

It didn't ruin the marriage, it was just the final nail in the coffin 
Tbh, it was the only way in my 22 year old immature mind I thought that he would let me go ( I have grown up since then)

There wasn't much off a fall out as we had no kids 

Was it easy the first time, honestly yes 
I felt no love for my then husband


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Did infidelity end your marriage ?


Yes but it wasn't the only reason


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

Brave of you to put yoruself out there on this site as a cheater. 

Didn't you ever consider the damage that you were doing, or going to do when he found out, to your husband's heart, masculinity, sense of self worth and insecurities?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> Brave of you to put yoruself out there on this site as a cheater.
> 
> Didn't you ever consider the damage that you were doing, or going to do when he found out, to your husband's heart, masculinity, sense of self worth and insecurities?


No is the honest answer, in an affair you are just thinking about yourself even more so if you don't care about your marriage


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

After you cheated did you ever compare your husband and your lover, while you were having sex with your husband? How long did it take you to forget the OM?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Tryingtobreath said:


> If it were an affair, did you sense yourself disconnecting from your husband? Did you ever feel like "sh!t, what have I done?!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No but this wasn't I drunken fumble, I knew what I was doing


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> After you cheated did you ever compare your husband and your lover, while you were having sex with your husband? How long did it take you to forget the OM?


My EX husband and I didn't have sex really, part of the reason why I cheated but that's another thread 

I never forgot about OM, he is my husband


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

hoo boy

let's all sit around and listen to some major blameshifting


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Could your husband have done anything to keep you from cheating?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Do you feel remorse for what you did to your husband?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> hoo boy
> 
> let's all sit around and listen to some major blameshifting


I won't shift any blame, I cheated I admit it 
Everyone knows I cheated, all my family know 

I just thought I may be able to help some of you guys


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

denying that you cheated is not blameshifting
trying to justify your cheating is


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Do you feel remorse for what you did to your husband?


I do now, I hope he has found a nice women who is perfect for him 

I am older and wiser and could not imagine hurting my second husband in that way


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Almostrecovered said:


> denying that you cheated is not blameshifting
> trying to justify your cheating is


I honestly didn't start this thread to justify what I did, I am sorry that you think I did


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I think a lot of us BSs would like to know...Could your husband have done anything to keep you from cheating?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I do now, I hope he has found a nice women who is perfect for him
> 
> I am older and wiser and could not imagine hurting my second husband in that way


How long have you been married to your OM?


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I do now, I hope he has found a nice women who is perfect for him
> 
> I am older and wiser and could not imagine hurting my second husband in that way


You're only 26 now, that's not older. It will happen again and your current has thought about the fact you cheated once you have the ability to do it again. I guarantee its gone through his mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I think a lot of us BSs would like to know...Could your husband have done anything to keep you from cheating?


Ok I will say it but I don't want anyone to think I am justifying my cheating 

I was 22 he was 23 and I couldn't get him to have sex with me, he was the first person I slept with I didn't realise I was HD at time I thought I was totally abnormal I couldn't imagine spending the rest of my life like that


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I think a lot of us BSs would like to know...Could your husband have done anything to keep you from cheating?


That's where a lot of you BS's go wrong.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

26 cheater twice married ouch!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Was your OM/now husband aware you were a married woman back then?
Does he have trust issues with you? Do you trust him?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I'll ask again. Could your husband have done anything to keep you from cheating? Yes or no.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> That's where a lot of you BS's go wrong.


Huh? Are you a WS giving advice now?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I'll ask again. Could your husband have done anything to keep you from cheating? Yes or no.


No but we BOTH needed to work harder at the marriage before it got to that point 

We should have communicated


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> Huh? Are you a WS giving advice now?


No I'm just a bystander. Carry on...

But I would like to ask you one thing though, if your wife came up to you and told you she cheated because your penis was 1 inch too small what would you do?


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Did you tell or did he find out? Would you do it again today?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Acabado said:


> Was your OM/now husband aware you were a married woman back then?
> Does he have trust issues with you? Do you trust him?


Yes he knew everything 

I trust him, you would have to ask him but I hope he does


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thanks for posting here. No, really! Thanks for posting. You married your affair partner? That happens, sometimes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. 

You seem unaware of your ex-husband's status. If he married again, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> No


This is what I'm looking for. So many BS think they can keep there WS from cheating. Can't be done. Notice she always adds a BUT. I took it out as not to cloud the matter.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> Did you tell or did he find out? Would you do it again today?


I told him

That last question is a hard one to answer because I am so happy now 

I wish I has gone about it in a different way, I should have just left him not cheated


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> No but we BOTH needed to work harder at the marriage before it got to that point
> 
> We should have communicated


This is what always pmo, its not going well so the exit is by finding someone else while still married, cheating and leaving only when you found the next guy. Great
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> No I'm just a bystander. Carry on...
> 
> But I would like to ask you one thing though, if your wife came up to you and told you she cheated because your penis was 1 inch too small what would you do?


I'm not a WS and am not answering questions in the thread.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I told him
> 
> That last question is a hard one to answer because I am so happy now
> 
> I wish I has gone about it in a different way, I should have just left him not cheated


Too bad you had to hurt another person to get to a place where YOU could be happy!


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Thanks for posting here. No, really! Thanks for posting. You married your affair partner? That happens, sometimes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
> 
> You seem unaware of your ex-husband's status. If he married again, etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

You are selfish, karma and universe order always gets the last word
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Probably


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Well, we have your side of the story only and I am well old enough to know there are always two sides.

Anyway, I'll play along...

So my question is this: Here you have a man who trusts you, has faith in you to do the right thing even if the marriage has a few sniffles and you are having sex with other men. What does it feel like to be trusted like that and then to strip for another man, climb in to bed (or hop the sofa...) and have sex with him knowing your poor damn husband is back home trusting you? Was it a major high? Did you feel empowered? Excited? Did you think, 'take that you trusting SOB'? How did you feel during the time with the POSOM?


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I'm not a WS and am not answering questions in the thread.


 Answer's obvious I guess.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as me justifying the affair


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as my justifying the affair


Your betrayal ("affair" is a chic phrase used by those you DO justify their behavior) cannot ever be "justified". Period. But you came here, presuming your story is even true, and egged us on to ask you questions. And so we have. Why not provide the answers you want and go from there.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as my justifying the affair


Well it's helpful if you just answer the questions. Short and sweet. Don't mention your husband unless your asked directly about him.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Why do you think your OM, now husband, values you? 

He knows he married a cheater, and he himself is able to cheat with a married woman. 

Why do you think marriage is truly valuable? 

Why would your current husband respect his marriage when he didnt respect your first one?


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as me justifying the affair


Do you ever worry OM (now hubby) might cheat on you? Since he doesn't mind married women? Was it love? Lust?

How did you feel right before you slept with him? Any guilt?


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Its still eating you or you wouldn't be here and you know your current H can and might cheat with a married women when he gets bored and tired of you. He will to or you will go first, matter of time!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Originally posted by BjornFree:
That's where a lot of you BS's go wrong.



MrBrains said:


> Huh? Are you a WS giving advice now?


You missed the point. 

It matters not if he is a BS or WS. The point is, cheating is not generally about the Betrayed. What they have or haven't done. The issue is that the problem, the fault, lies with the WS. 

And so to ask if there was anything a BS cd do to stop a WS cheating....this is wholly misguided. Totally wrong mindset.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Considering OP said she felt it was a last option to free her from her marriage I dont see that many people will get much help from her. 

Many people who come here are trying to save their marriage, even the WS's that come here seem to want to fix things.

She did what she did to feel good about herself and have an exit plan from her marriage. I dont see what questions we could ask that would be helpful for a majority of us considering most our our WS's say they just "fell into it" and didnt plan it. Her's appears to have been planned to some degree!


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

I think it does still eat at me cos I was brought up very religious, it's ingrained that we don't get divorced 

I guess he would cheat if he I didn't make him happy, I would have to live with that


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I think it does still eat at me cos I was brought up very religious, it's ingrained that we don't get divorced
> 
> I guess he would cheat if he I didn't make him happy, I would have to live with that


Has he said that to you outright? Or is that how you feel?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

That's how I feel


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I guess he would cheat if he I didn't make him happy, I would have to live with that


this is the major flaw in your thinking

let me tell you a secret-

EVERY marriage has ups and downs and every marriage has problems where one or the other or both are unhappy


you either work to fix it, ignore it, end it or cheat

the latter is the most egregious and immoral and most hurtful choice to make. It may seem like the easiest solution but it is by far the most damaging and worst choice to make


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Cwychbunny, can I get you to go back and answer my questions. I really am curious.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> That's how I feel


So that's your issue. Trust. Yep that's what a lot of affair partners who marry are staring at, the cold reality of a relationship where you don't know when the other shoe might drop


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Q. Could your BS do anything to stop you cheating?

A. No.




MrBrains said:


> This is what I'm looking for. So many BS think they can keep there WS from cheating. Can't be done. Notice she always adds a BUT. I took it out as not to cloud the matter.


Ahhh, you did understand where he was coming from. 

You just came from a different angle.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Remains said:


> Originally posted by BjornFree:
> That's where a lot of you BS's go wrong.
> 
> 
> ...


Huh? Are you a WS giving advice now?


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

southernsurf said:


> You are selfish, karma and universe order always gets the last word
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Especially when she's married to a guy that doesn't consider marriage vows important in regards to fidelity.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as me justifying the affair


That's why it sucks to be a cheater.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

thatbpguy said:


> Cwychbunny, can I get you to go back and answer my questions. I really am curious.


Ok but don't just turn round and say I am justifying myself 

I felt excited and empowered, I was excited that someone wanted to shag me after having a year and half with very little sex 
For a 22 year old with a high drive that was torture


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Ok but don't just turn round and say I am justifying myself
> 
> I felt excited and empowered, I was excited that someone wanted to shag me after having a year and half with very little sex
> For a 22 year old with a high drive that was torture


You can't do it can you? Answer questions straight forward without throwing your x under the bus. Did you come here to help us BSs or not? Just answer short and sweet it will do wonders for ya.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

It's ingrained that you don't get divorced unless 2 things happen... One, the relationship i abusive. Two, adultery... 7th Commandment...

You wanted out of the marriage but you were too 'cowardly' to go about ending it or getting counseling so you took the easy way out and cheated, 'forcing' your husband to divorce you and laying all the pain and guilt on him so you could make your easy escape?

The you find that what you did really was traumatic and you want some justification here? Really some penance? Trying to help give closure to some of these poor guys? You hope he found a nice woman... You hope because you know how painful it must have been to him? You turned your back on him completely and hurt him purposefully to end your marriage?

Honestly, you haven't done anything to anyone here. I am sorry you are in pain. Mr. Brains wants some closure which he will never get or he just might but I highly doubt it.

The fact of the matter is with most divorces and cheaters, there is rarely anything that the BS could have done to prevent the cheating. The act itself lies solely with the cheater.

Are BS perfect? I highly doubt it, some are closer to it than I am. The act of cheating is done to all kinds of people. It is done by people who are acting extremely selfishly in general and if you think that they care about you when they are cheating, the answer is NO!

Afterwards, like in this case, the cheaters can be remorseful, once they realize the grass really isn't so green and they can see the damage they caused.

Cwtchbunny, I think what you are doing is trying to be noble, but I still see it as selfish. You seem to me that you are trying to assuage your guilt here. What I suggest that you actually do is write your EX husband a letter and tell him you are sorry for what you did to him. Ask God to forgive you. He will. Forgive yourself. Ask your EX. (He may or may not) By asking though you can begin your own healing and your advice will be more appreciated.


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> You can't do it can you? Answer questions straight forward without throwing your x under the bus.


But that's the thing I cheated but if from the beginning of our marriage if he gave me regular sex, leant how to drive, didn't expect me to do every aspect of the house work and work a 40 hour week as well I wouldn't have gone looking elsewhere cos I would have been happy 

We both had faults, we were young living on our own for the first time 

I went about this is totally the wrong way


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

So...if all of this is in the past and you're now happy with your affair partn...I mean your soulmate, why do you feel a need to come her to pontificate to us poor male betrayed? What do YOU think we can garner from your oh, so unique experience and sage experience from a 26 year old?

I am so waiting to learn something new.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

the true irony here is you started this thread in the hopes of educating the betrayed, but it is you rather who needs some education and insight

the reality is that most of we betrayed here are already all too familiar with the WS drive to justify the affair and how their needs weren't being met.

the stark reality is that the reason you cheated had nothing to do with your husband
well, sure he wasn't meeting your sexual needs but as you can see there are plenty of people in SIM who have the same dilemma yet do NOT cheat.
the underlying cause is that you felt you selfishly deserved sex outside the marriage, you felt entitled to the attention
and instead of doing what's hard but right (either working on the marriage or divorcing) you chose the "easy" path and left a path of destruction behind you

the sooner you come to grips with that plain fact, that it was YOU and not your husband's fault the sooner you will be able to have better relationships


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I just thought I may be able to help some of you guys



Ok, I'll bite. How is it you think you can help? By telling us how we should act to keep a wife from cheating?


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## Cwtchbunny (May 20, 2013)

Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear

He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks 

I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> But that's the thing I cheated but if from the beginning of our marriage if he gave me regular sex, leant how to drive, didn't expect me to do every aspect of the house work and work a 40 hour week as well I wouldn't have gone looking elsewhere cos I would have been happy
> 
> We both had faults, we were young living on our own for the first time
> 
> I went about this is totally the wrong way


I thought you came here to be helpful? I was wrong. Your guilt and pride won't let you help any BS. Read your title to this thread.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as me justifying the affair


You can't.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


Much better....

You know, as AR said, if you're the one that needs help you should just ask rather than come and try to answer questions that people already know the answers for.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I think she is struggling with the why. She says she is happy and content but yet she is lurking on a site about A's

It is great if you are here to help others but I sense you are struggling with what you did and how you hurt and damaged another person.

Are you looking to have your sins washed away?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


see now you're being rather obtuse
no one here stated that your husband is perfect, in fact I stated that all marriages and spouses have issues that they need to work on
but I will say that your choice to cheat was much more destructive to the marriage and less repairable than his lack of intimacy


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


So typical of your type. Smarmy and incomplete.


EDIT to add: The biggest issue OP is you have no idea what we need as male betrayed spouses. I can tell you one thing we don't need, and that is a wayward woman coming here thinking she can "help" us by answering a few questions. That isn't gonna do it. Especially when it seems nothing but self serving and just a way to get attention. Which is what waywards tend to do.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

southernsurf said:


> 26 cheater twice married ouch!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was married twice by the age of 26. Nothing wrong with that.

OP, my ex h had several affairs on me. He married one of the long term girls that was fighting to break up our marriage. I knew he was cheating, but I denied it our entire marriage. Once I had solid proof, I left. 19 years have passed and they are still married, she moved in 3 days after I left. My ex and I have a child together, so I had to be in contact with him. He still cheats to this day and has told our adult child. His affairs ended our marriage. I did not love my ex h and there were other issues besides his infidelity for reasons to leave. My ex H's current wife was not expecting him to cheat on her, which this really surprises me since he slept with her best friend as well while married to me. My ex h never and still doesn't take responsibility for his poor actions. 

Having one affair isn't the same as a serial cheater. There's a big difference. We learn from our poor choices and face the consequences. I learned a very big lesson from my first marriage even though I was the BS and I did not repeat the same mistake twice.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I think we've learned a lot we already knew about WSs in this thread. The BS is the problem. Even after the WS marries OM. Watch OM "Shock the Monkey"


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

People can always learn from the experience of other people & you could have something to say here, but I'm not sure that I've heard anything truly helpful from you.

You were young and self-centered and not ready for adult responsibilities and marriage. So, instead of getting the divorce, which would have struck against your religion, you cheated (which is OK in your religion?).

So far, this isn't unique in any facet.

Now you're happy with the OM, whom you have married, and you want to share what you've learned.

The problem is, OP, at your age, it is you who will no doubt learn from the posters here. You will learn the hard way that you and your H can't trust one another and that, even though things seems blissful now, that lack of trust will probably rear its head at some point and your bliss will fade.

(And just a side note - I keep wondering if this is a change of the modern age that people take so long to grow up and act like reasonable adults. It seems to be true, but I don't believe it always was. My own mother married at 22 and had 4 children by the age of 28. She was a mature, responsible woman in her 20's. That appeared to be the norm. Are we just giving younger people a pass to be selfish and childish?)


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man



You're funny!:scratchhead:

Did this man wake up one morning and start to do things the opposite of the way you wanted or was he maybe that way when you married him, you just chose to overlook it? Leopards cant change their spots!

Did you not have the option to divorce him before you chose to cheat? You needed an exit plan, you needed a fall back guy, right?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Question how can I tell you exactly what happened if anything I say against my then husband is seen as me justifying the affair


you can state that those were the reasons you gave yourself to feel warranted in having the affair but ultimately the real reason was your poor choice and lack of morality at the time

a true remorseful wayward recognizes that 
they take responsibility for their actions and if possible, work towards atoning for those actions


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I guess he would cheat if he I didn't make him happy, I would have to live with that


Yup, I knew it would come out. Nice job at reversing the roles with your answer so as not to make it look like you are justifying your behavior.

Ya aint foolin' nobody.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


And there you have it folks. The real reason why she is here.

As if we were fooled thinking she was really here to help in the first place.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> *The problem is, OP, at your age, it is you who will no doubt learn from the posters here.* You will learn the hard way that you and your H can't trust one another and that, even though things seems blissful now, that lack of trust will probably rear its head at some point and your bliss will fade.


Quoted...bolded...for it's truth.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> the true irony here is you started this thread in the hopes of educating the betrayed, but it is you rather who needs some education and insight


Hmmmmmm............. and I'm thinking of a work that rhymes with roll........................


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry nothing useful here, you don't answer the real questions, you dont seem to care about the damage you have done. You are married to the OM, for now this thread is more of a in your face, "I cheated, I'm happy"


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

mablenc said:


> Sorry nothing useful here, you don't answer the real questions, you dont seem to care about the damage you have done. You are married to the OM, for now this thread is more of a in your face, "I cheated, I'm happy"


I agree...except oddly enough she's posted another thread complaining that her current husband/OM won't tell her of his sexual past.

Good gosh golly...I wonder why not?!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Sorry nothing useful here, you don't answer the real questions, you dont seem to care about the damage you have done. You are married to the OM, for now this thread is more of a in your face, "I cheated, I'm happy"


A WS cannot answer these types of questions until they have felt real remorse for their actions and truly would like to possibly stop a cheater to help a marriage.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

:lol:


Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


Hehe... Funny.

We all know it takes two to make a marriage fail.

The truth was you should have just gotten divorced. You didn't have kids, you were young, etc.

You cheated instead. I know how that feels. Unfortunately your relationship with the current hubby started on the failure and betrayal of your first. I hope all works out for you... We all make mistakes. It's what we do to atone for them and assure they don't happen again that matters.

Good luck.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

They cannot also answer these types of questions when they aren't here to answer those types of questions, and just waiting for the right question to unleash the finger pointing and justifying. 

But I guess I should go easy. She is here to help us understand why we were cheated on


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

That and the thread title starts out with "YOU men" and she has bunny in her handle
:crazy:


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> Huh? Are you a WS giving advice now?


If he is you should listen
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> They cannot also answer these types of questions when they aren't here to answer those types of questions, and just waiting for the right question to unleash the finger pointing and justifying.
> 
> But I guess I should go easy. She is here to help us understand why we were cheated on



I don't believe there is ever a clear answer for why "we" get cheated on. It clearly happens to the wrost and best of us. Cheating is a singular act. It's selfish and cruel. It takes one person deciding for whatever reason (revenge, addiction, selfishness, need, lust, opportunity) that they're going to cheat.

Cheating never just happens. There's always a moment in there where a person could do the right thing, it's the fault of the cheater for not grasping at that moment like a drowning man.

Cheating is NOT the BS fault... Even my story I could have done 10 million other things.. I dont even blame the OM/OW.. If it wasn't them it would have Been someone else.. It's the fault 110% of the cheater.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Why will my hubby not tell me anything about his past sexual relationships
> 
> I am pretty much an open book, I will tell him anything
> 
> I don't even know his magic number





Cwtchbunny said:


> Are there any other HD ladies out there
> 
> My husband has a lower sex drive than me, we do it once a week at the most and I find myself climbing the walls. Thank god for porn lol




From your above 2 threads/quotes, it seems you are not happy in your current marriage either.

So, what to do? What to do?


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Hubby wasn't always like this but kids and work happened, we used to have sex every other day
> 
> Also he is a fair bit older than me, do you think men over 40 don't need sex so often





Cwtchbunny said:


> I wish he would knock one out, I think it would increase his sex drive but I honestly believe he doesn't
> 
> He is 43 I am 26



And this...

So, you jump from a young husband to an old husband (17 years difference).

Are any of the kids yours?

Edit: never mind, read this...



Cwtchbunny said:


> Around 3 years since I was pregnant with our first


Did you leave your first husband because you got pregnant by the OM, your current husband?


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

aug said:


> And this...
> 
> So, you jump from a young husband to an old husband (about 20 years difference).


The 2nd husband is screwed when he is 60 and she is 40, if not sooner.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> The 2nd husband is screwed when he is 60 and she is 40, if not sooner.


I think 2nd husband will shock the monkey way before then.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

I honestly think its a maturity thing....

Once you have been married for a while you have responsibilites that dont enable you to jump in the bed at a moments whim. She seems to want to just F like bunnies (hence the name) and not deal with other factors in being a mature responsible adult (hence her complaining about having to do everything, etc with the first husband).

Thats my 2 cents!


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

So, let me get this straight.

You left your first husband because he did not give you enough sex. Then you found another husband 17 years older, and am now wondering why you aren't getting more sex.

Do you think by the time you're 50 y.o. and he's 67, he'll give you lots of sex? Or, would you then be on husband #5?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

who was the OM(your H)? how did you meet him??


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

I'm 11 years older than my wife and am already saving up for OTC viagra in another 10 years! 

But a 17-20 year age difference yeah, that's going to be ugly. 

Well OP, you spent the first hubby's money and the second is older so probably has MORE money. My guess is you plan on spending his money, complaining about your HD and lack of sex at home, and the cycle will continue. You're 26, there's still a lot to learn about life at your age. Please, please make the best of it and do it by NOT leaving a trail of broken relationships behind you.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

mablenc said:


> Sorry nothing useful here, you don't answer the real questions, you dont seem to care about the damage you have done. You are married to the OM, for now this thread is more of a in your face, "I cheated, I'm happy"


My MIL married her OM... took her about a decade to cheat on him. She probably should have learned from the first time around, but instead she shifted blame, rewrote history, and justified it...

So she cheated.. she's 'happy'.... for now.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I'm a cheater and I don't think there is anything to learn from a cheater's point of view. We all find a way to justify it, and from what I have seen we all seem to be a little bit more "me" focused than non adulterers. Sometimes I honestly wonder if cheaters even love differently. Are we really ever as "in love", in comparison to people who would never cheat no matter what? What can possibly be learned from us that would be positive?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm a cheater and I don't think there is anything to learn from a cheater's point of view. We all find a way to justify it, and from what I have seen we all seem to be a little bit more "me" focused than non adulterers. Sometimes I honestly wonder if cheaters even love differently. Are we really ever as "in love", in comparison to people who would never cheat no matter what? What can possibly be learned from us that would be positive?


Only you would know. Are you really willing to help BSs? Even the FBI hires con men to learn how to deal with con men.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> That and the thread title starts out with "YOU men" and she has bunny in her handle
> :crazy:


he he, thanks Dusty for putting a matching smilie to the thread.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I think it does still eat at me cos I was brought up very religious, it's ingrained that we don't get divorced
> 
> I guess he would cheat if he I didn't make him happy, I would have to live with that


When you say something like this it means you have zero margin for error in the 'current' marriage - that's sad
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Well now that she finally got out what she wanted to say and decided to play games to get there, as if we didn't already know that, then perhaps one of the mods can close this thread since she is more than likely sitting there with a smirk on her face in all her glory.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> Only you would know. Are you really willing to help BSs? Even the FBI hires con men to learn how to deal with con men.


You make a good point. The only thing I could help with is telling women what to look for. I don't think I can tell them anything that would prevent their partner from stepping out.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Eek. OP, you are not irredeemable. I'm sure youre not an evil person. I do believe you have gone into this second marriage with as much immaturity as you handled the first marriage. Who knows if this one will last? I don't like to say "all marriages that start as affairs are doomed to crash and burn." I don't know if that is so. They certainly are starting HUGELY handicapped. Not to mention your age difference, his lower drive and his reluctance to be 100% honest with you about his past. 

Anything negative you say about your first marriage will be labeled as blame shifting. This is from one WW to another. So don't even bother. It will fall on deaf ears. I know you felt like you had your reasons. Not enough sex led to you seeking it out. But that's too simplistic. Lots of people lack sex. They file and move on. If you wanted to leave him anyway, why add the extra pain of an affair? That's something you'll have to work out within yourself. 

I'm in a similar marriage. My husband cannot keep up with me and at times I feel like I could scream. Still, if we are destined to divorce, I want to know I did it without laying down with another man. That's important to me. 

Anyway...end of rambling. Try learning from people here. Ignore the vitriol and look for the honest posts that force you to examine your own motives and desires.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Annie, you reeeeallly think she is here to help? Really? She wants to help "YOU men". She already started the thread out with an attitude against us.

Only way I'd make a statement about "YOU women" is if I had a low opinion of you to begin with.

And the "vitriol" isn't because she has cheated. Its because we know she isn't here to help and was waiting for the right questions so she can reply with the answers she really wanted to say. And she answered, and we aren't surprised.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm a cheater and I don't think there is anything to learn from a cheater's point of view. We all find a way to justify it, and from what I have seen we all seem to be a little bit more "me" focused than non adulterers. Sometimes I honestly wonder if cheaters even love differently. Are we really ever as "in love", in comparison to people who would never cheat no matter what? What can possibly be learned from us that would be positive?


HAHA, we could all learn how to do everything perfect so that our wife/husband wont cheat on us. You know since its the usually our fault that we get cheated on anyway. Im totaly being sarcastic here btw!

Thank you for what you said, I think you are pretty spot on!


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Or let's put it the way you guys want to hear
> 
> He was the most perfect husband, he brought me flowers wrote me poems and took me on mini breaks
> 
> I spent all his money but I still wanted more, I needed excitement so I started shagging another man


Do you think you married up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

dusty4 said:


> Annie, you reeeeallly think she is here to help? Really? She wants to help "YOU men". She already started the thread out with an attitude against us.
> 
> Only way I'd make a statement about "YOU women" is if I had a low opinion of you to begin with.


I could say the same about the hateful, angry men who posted to me under the guise of helping. "You're an ungrateful sl*t! I'm just telling you this to HELP you!" 

Why would I ascribe motives to her? Maybe she THOUGHT she was unique and could be a sounding board to BH but got a rude awakening. 

That's my problem with CWI. People here think they are wise and all-knowing. Sorry. They ain't.


----------



## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> I could say the same about the hateful, angry men who posted to me under the guise of helping. "You're an ungrateful sl*t! I'm just telling you this to HELP you!"


And you'd be justified in saying that about those men. But that isn't this thread.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> The 2nd husband is screwed when he is 60 and she is 40, if not sooner.


Marriage #2 will be over in 3 years tops, bet he's already protecting his money
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

dusty4 said:


> And you'd be justified in saying that about those men. But that isn't this thread.



But seriously. I think she probably thought she'd get bombarded with tearful BHs desperate for answers and she'd dispense wise and sage advice. Unfortunately for HER, that's not that she got. I doubt she was trying to hurt random interwebz strangers.


----------



## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> What can possibly be learned from us that would be positive?


You learn how to respect boundaries.

You learn how your selfish actions and poor decision making can have extreme consequences.

You learn that you in fact, CAN get caught.

You learn how to communicate better with your partner.

You learn that an A isn't the solution to all your problems, it's the cause of most of them.

I can continue.. but you get the idea.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> Do you see everyone who disagrees with you as claiming to be "superior?"


Not at all. It was the veiled backhand about us not being "wise".

But I'm really not offended, as I know better, and decided it wasn't worth it and removed that part, but you were just too fast on the keyboard.



> But seriously. I think she probably thought she'd get bombarded with tearful BHs desperate for answers and she'd dispense wise and sage advice.


Well her true intentions came out, so its a moot point.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm an iPad cowgirl, Dusty! Sorry.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

southernsurf said:


> Marriage #2 will be over in 3 years tops, bet he's already protecting his money
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thats the sad thing about marrying someone that later on you realize you shouldn't have. 1/2 the marital assets is 1/2 the marital assets. The only money he could protect is that which he had before marriage.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> I'm an iPad cowgirl, Dusty! Sorry.


LOL, its all good. And I wasn't really wanting to get into it. I think you are A-ok :smthumbup:


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

you already cheated on H #2 didn't you, that's why you are really here, trying to figure out what's wrong with you. You need to drop the sex drive excuse
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> I don't believe there is ever a clear answer for why "we" get cheated on.
> 
> This is your answer to "why"*It's selfish *and cruel...and cowardly...and self-centered. . It takes one person deciding for whatever reason (revenge, addiction, selfishness, need, lust, opportunity) that they're going to cheat.
> .


Kimatra, In my VERY humble opinion, I think we are ALL born selfish, and that we have to be taught not to be. Most of us grab onto the life lessons we learn in childhood, such as "don't cut in front of someone". Cheating, on a very FUNDAMENTAL level is "cutting in front of someone". The partner/spouse is already in the picture. The cheating parter allows someone to "cut in front of" his partner/spouse. Cheaters may also start to feel that they're 'missing out' on some aspect of life (sex). It's almost as if life dealt them a bad 'hand', and now life 'owes' them. Hence, they start to believe that they "deserve" to be happy (even though they've done NOTHING to earn that 'happiness'. The dynamic of cheating is all very self-serving

Vega


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

OP has left the building.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

ReformedHubby said:


> I'm a cheater and I don't think there is anything to learn from a cheater's point of view. We all find a way to justify it, and from what I have seen we all seem to be a little bit more "me" focused than non adulterers. Sometimes I honestly wonder if cheaters even love differently. Are we really ever as "in love", in comparison to people who would never cheat no matter what? What can possibly be learned from us that would be positive?


Whoa... *lightbulb moment*

My exb/f IS very into HIMSELF. I mean, he had the attitude of "me first" in just about EVERYTHING he did...with NO APOLOGIES...AND, LOTS of blame-shifting. I can't tell you HOW many times he used the phrase 'I _deserve_'. 

I've always believed that EGO was at the 'root' of a cheater's cheating. What you wrote just confirmed that for me...

Vega


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I was a cheater and treated my girlfriends like gold.

Did everything for them and aside from the cheating they always came first in just about everything.
the vast majority of them would enter in a relationship with me again, today if it were possible.

There is no single mental aspect of any group that can be used as an axiom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is the OP a Brit? Just a thought.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> I could say the same about the hateful, angry men who posted to me under the guise of helping. "You're an ungrateful sl*t! I'm just telling you this to HELP you!"
> 
> Why would I ascribe motives to her? Maybe she THOUGHT she was unique and could be a sounding board to BH but got a rude awakening.
> 
> That's my problem with CWI. People here think they are wise and all-knowing. Sorry. They ain't.


Please forgive the thread jack..... Annie, you rock! :thumbup:


I, actually, believe that most of the people posting in CWI, BS's and former WS's, do have honorable intentions and are either seeking direction in their own lives as they are coping with infidelity or they wish to make a positive contribution in the lives of others who are coping with infidelity. There are some, like me, who came looking for direction and who chose to stay for the ongoing encouragement and support as my husband and I continue to move forward in to what is becoming a happier, healthier marriage and successful reconciliation after my 15 month EA/PA. As of today, we are one year into reconciliation. Hopefully, by sharing our own story, we're able to give back some of the encouragement and support we were fortunate enough to receive from others. 

Like you said, there are some individuals in CWI who think they are wise and all-knowing and they're not. Fortunately, they are few and far between and it doesn't take very long to separate them from the rest. The creator of this site enabled the ignore feature for those whom you described in your first sentence. 

I'm inspired by your courage, strength and determination in the way you handle, both, your marital issues in a pro-active manner and in the way you have presented yourself on TAM.


End of thread jack!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Experience is a hell of education. This one experience I could have done without. It does make you more of an authority on the subject. As much as one might say you ain't.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

EI said:


> Like you said, there are some individuals in CWI who think they are wise and all-knowing and they're not. Fortunately, they are few and far between and it doesn't take very long to separate them from the rest.


No offense taken

My opinion isn't any less valid than yours or anyone elses. If I am speaking from the other side of the fence as you or AA, then I'm sorry, but you have your opinions, others have theirs.

There is a point missed in this thread. This isn't about someone who truly came here to help and doesn't have any ill intentions. Pretty much everyone can see through this person's posts. I welcome honest insight from a WS. But its obvious what her intentions are when speaking to US men. She knows what she wants to say, but is playing a game to get us to ask the right questions so she can say them. That way whatever she says, she can say, "you asked".


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> OP has left the building.


It's evening in the UK, mate! She's probably busy!

The OP is probably Welsh and uses a combination Welsh/English name on the board which, when translated is quite cute! 

*Now, I wonder if we saw her cheated on first husband here a while back?*:scratchhead:

Something makes me think maybe we did.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah...a quite cute named 26 year old wanting to teach us betrayed with her wisdom as a wayward when she was 22.

I'm enthralled.

I still want details and her real story. Not some blameshift thing. Just give it to us straight. This is TAM. I ain't married to her...wouldn't wanna be...so don't trickle truth an anonymous forum cuz that just shows how bad the pathology is.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Yeah...a quite cute named 26 year old wanting to teach us betrayed with her wisdom as a wayward when she was 22.
> 
> I'm enthralled.
> 
> I still want details and her real story. Not some blameshift thing. Just give it to us straight. This is TAM. I ain't married to her...wouldn't wanna be...so don't trickle truth an anonymous forum cuz that just shows how bad the pathology is.


It means Cuddle Bunny.

cwtsh cwningen would be the Welsh translation. Says Google translate.


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## Lawyer101 (Jan 17, 2013)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Yes he knew everything
> 
> I trust him, you would have to ask him but I hope he does


A man who knowingly sleeps with a married woman lacks character. How does it feel to be now married to a characterless man?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Lawyer101 said:


> A man who knowingly sleeps with a married woman lacks character. How does it feel to be now married to a characterless man?


That's a naughty lawyer's question!:smthumbup:

You actually answered the question, then pretended to pose the question, having already given the answer you wanted to hear!:rofl:

Of course the truth is that a man who knowingly sleeps with a married woman does not lack character. He may, however, possess a type of character that you do not like. But which is not quite the same thing, is it?


----------



## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

Did you ever talk to the OM about your husband? Doesn't have to be trash talk, it can be small talk or whatever. Just anything?

This is haunting me to this day and I don't know why.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Of course the truth is that a man who knowingly sleeps with a married woman does not lack character. He may, however, possess a type of character that you do not like. But which is not quite the same thing, is it?


Most men who'll sleep with married women are either married themselves or get a thrill from it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

KimatraAKM said:


> Most men who'll sleep with married women are either married themselves or get a thrill from it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or live in a state of denial. Try not to think of the husband at all.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

Is it over already????! Dang it, I didn't get to ask my question!!!


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Of course the truth is that a man who knowingly sleeps with a married woman does not lack character. He may, however, possess a type of character that you do not like. But which is not quite the same thing, is it?


True that. I would revise the phrase 'lacks character' to 'has poor character' ... but everybody knows it is intended to be the same thing.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Cwtchbunny said:


> Feel free to ask
> 
> I cheated in my first marriage, I was very young (I am only 26 now)
> 
> ...


Since you cheated so early in the marriage, why wouldn't you just find a way to end it with your husband.
Did you actually "hate" him so much that you couldn't cut him enough slack to be able to walk away?


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> well, sure he wasn't meeting your sexual needs but as you can see there are plenty of people in SIM who have the same dilemma yet do NOT cheat.
> the underlying cause is that you felt you selfishly deserved sex outside the marriage, you felt entitled to the attention.


For every person in SIM who have the same dilemma and don't cheat or haven't yet, I can show you five who are on other sites and have chosen to cheat. 
Granted, OP is young and may not have any knowledge that is of use to you. It doesn't mean you have to continually bash her for something she admits she would have done differently. 
It's been said before so ill repeat it, if you aren't having sex with your spouse, don't be surprised if they find someone who will. I've heard this plenty of times on the SIM section. Kind of a double standard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

EI said:


> Please forgive the thread jack..... Annie, you rock! :thumbup:


EI and Annie:

I think you may feel a level of kinship as a fellow WS. You also feel for her because you have been bashed to a degree here.

But this woman is no comparison to you.

NONE!


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

larry.gray said:


> EI and Annie:
> 
> I think you may feel a level of kinship as a fellow WS. You also feel for her because you have been bashed to a degree here.
> 
> ...


She's young, quite young. Hopefully she'll outgrow this.


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

_*Originally Posted by MovingAhead 
well, sure he wasn't meeting your sexual needs but as you can see there are plenty of people in SIM who have the same dilemma yet do NOT cheat.
the underlying cause is that you felt you selfishly deserved sex outside the marriage, you felt entitled to the attention.*_

For every person in SIM who have the same dilemma and don't cheat or haven't yet, I can show you five who are on other sites and have chosen to cheat. 
Granted, OP is young and may not have any knowledge that is of use to you. It doesn't mean you have to continually bash her for something she admits she would have done differently. 
It's been said before so ill repeat it, if you aren't having sex with your spouse, don't be surprised if they find someone who will. I've heard this plenty of times on the SIM section. Kind of a double standard.

*Kermitty: Let me be straight with you.*

1. You quoted and EDITED something that I may have written. You posted it in this thread, you link to my quote goes back to my post in this thread... POST #65 

That quote of mine that you posted is *NOT* in this thread! *That is dishonest and disingenuous at best!*. Seriously?

2. I generally do not BASH people. If I were bashing someone, I would say something like this... I think you are a FU**TARD for misquoting me and making it look like I was bashing someone. I don't post to bash people, but I speak to people in real life bluntly. I will tell my best friends they are POS if they do things. I am honest and opinionated to a fault.

3. If you think I was bashing her, then why is it that to the present time of posting this, my post #65 is the *only* post in this *entire* thread that she actually liked? I scanned the entire thread!

4. The only person I cuddle with is my girlfriend. I hug my boys, but I do NOT coddle people. I don't berate people for making mistakes and I don't tell them they are POS. Everyone deserves forgiveness if they are truly remorseful.

5. I am a tough love person. Others here are softer. I am glad. People need all kinds. I am extremely harsh on people's _*actions*_ and I play it straight. People tend to make excuses for their bad actions and I hold them accountable. People make bad choices, but it's their choice to make. I don't have a problem telling them their choice is crap if I believe it.

6. Holding someone accountable is NOT bashing them! 

7. I don't give a rat's hind end about other sites and cheating statistics. Someone who decides to cheat is a coward and selfish, or has some mental issues in general.

8. It is NOT a double standard to cheat if you aren't having sex. You ALWAYS have the option to divorce or counsel. Cheating is the cowards way out!

9. If you aren't having sex with your spouse... You have issues. What they are I don't know. It's case by case. Your spouse will have to meet their needs. I understand that. Do it the right way. Sneaking behind someone's back is WRONG! If you disagree with that then well that says a lot about your character. 

Again look at my post #65... Look at the bottom and see that she *LIKED* my post. I tend to think she may really have agreed with something I said. I could be wrong. It would not be the first time.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

MovingAhead said:


> _*Originally Posted by MovingAhead
> well, sure he wasn't meeting your sexual needs but as you can see there are plenty of people in SIM who have the same dilemma yet do NOT cheat.
> the underlying cause is that you felt you selfishly deserved sex outside the marriage, you felt entitled to the attention.*_
> 
> ...


My deepest apologies moving ahead. That was not your quote at all. It was a copy and paste mistake I made while using my iPhone. The quote I copied was actually made by "almostrecovered"
I can edit my original post if you would like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

No problem. It's not like I was being defensive or anything


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

I do believe that Elvis has left the building.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

EI said:


> Please forgive the thread jack..... Annie, you rock! :thumbup:
> 
> 
> I, actually, believe that most of the people posting in CWI, BS's and former WS's, do have honorable intentions and are either seeking direction in their own lives as they are coping with infidelity or they wish to make a positive contribution in the lives of others who are coping with infidelity. There are some, like me, who came looking for direction and who chose to stay for the ongoing encouragement and support as my husband and I continue to move forward in to what is becoming a happier, healthier marriage and successful reconciliation after my 15 month EA/PA. As of today, we are one year into reconciliation. Hopefully, by sharing our own story, we're able to give back some of the encouragement and support we were fortunate enough to receive from others.
> ...


To the OP, AnnieAsh and EI:

There's a funny thing about affairs which I think you know (Annie and EI): the WS usually sees it as unique, a truly individual event that changes their life, while many of us see the same old pattern again and again.

WSs are often very blind to themselves and the situation, and they don't see the selfishness in their actions and they certainly don't see what they are doing to their BS. Except in a few rare cases.

But even if there are tears shed, they are usually not tears for their husbands that they are betraying but for themselves. 

Maturity is learning this, which usually takes a very long time, far too long to save the marriage. 

You two are lucky in that you learned it sooner than most. It IS possible. I've seen a few others on here that do, but most don't. Some years down the road they may look back with more understanding and maybe remorse.

That's what the OP has to come to see and may very well not. Has she REALLY seen herself? Many are questioning that and I think they have a point. Doesn't mean she's lost but has a lot more growing up to do. Don't we all . . .


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

PreRaphaelite said:


> That's what the OP has to come to see and may very well not.


I think she has come to see that too.

But not in this thread.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Or live in a state of denial. Try not to think of the husband at all.


I wonder if xOM is looking over his shoulder waiting for a baseball bat to the head.... obviously they also forget the risk of messing with another mans wife. I wondered if they come out of the fog and realize they're life is in danger now... or if they're just so stupid, that it doesn't even register.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

I wonder why OP logged in at 4:07pm (EST on my computer) and never said a word.

I neeeeeed my enlightenment!!!!!


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

In casual conversations with other people/couples, what do you tell when asked how you and your now husband met?

If you are going to have children, would you tell them that part of the story when they grow up?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

snap said:


> In casual conversations with other people/couples, what do you tell when asked how you and your now husband met?
> 
> If you are going to have children, would you tell them that part of the story when they grow up?


She'd lie and lie to her kids. Lets don't forget she's a WS.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

snap said:


> In casual conversations with other people/couples, what do you tell when asked how you and your now husband met?
> 
> *If you are going to have children*, would you tell them that part of the story when they grow up?



She does have kids. The OM/husband is 47 with kids (I believe) and she was pregnant 3 years ago.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

FLGator said:


> Did you ever talk to the OM about your husband? Doesn't have to be trash talk, it can be small talk or whatever. Just anything?
> 
> This is haunting me to this day and I don't know why.


I'm sure she probably did. She freely admitted he knew she was married.

I know I talked to my OM about my hubby. Not bashing, just questions.. He was my friend.

She spent alot of time with this OM so I'm sure they discussed the BS.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

LOL...but did you talk to your hubby about your OM?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> No I'm just a bystander. Carry on...
> 
> But I would like to ask you one thing though, if your wife came up to you and told you she cheated because your penis was 1 inch too small what would you do?


So your 5" and she "needs" 6"? Or your 8" and she "needs" 9"?

Big difference.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> LOL...but did you talk to your hubby about your OM?


Heh.... Not yet...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> I'm sure she probably did. She freely admitted he knew she was married.
> 
> I know I talked to my OM about my hubby. Not bashing, just questions.. He was my friend.
> 
> She spent alot of time with this OM so I'm sure they discussed the BS.


The thing I wonder about, but why bother asking.. is how much of the stuff they talked about was total bull... since we're dealing with two people, trying to be perfect for each other, and living a fantasy (aka lie wrapped in more lies).. I wonder how horrible she made me out to be to coworkers and to xOM to justify her actions.. and I'm sure he had quite a bit of bull about his GF as well, since that's part of how they play it... My GF isn't as good to me as you are, your H doesn't appreciate you like I do etc...

So really.. they discussed the BS, but at the time they are talking about made-up stuff... like 'he never spends time with me anymore'... no, because you're coming home late and are too tired.. probably all that sneaking and lying wearing you down.. 'my husband never wants sex with me'... No, he only wants it three times a day but was happy with three or five times a week because that's what he thought you were wanting. I'm sure he'd rather have you doing some guy at work than coming home for a quickie with him at lunch, because yea, guys hate that.... Lies fuel it.... lies about the BS.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> Heh.... Not yet...


No time like the present, especially when hubby's years are passing him by.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

russell28 said:


> The thing I wonder about, but why bother asking.. is how much of the stuff they talked about was total bull... since we're dealing with two people, trying to be perfect for each other, and living a fantasy (aka lie wrapped in more lies).. I wonder how horrible she made me out to be to coworkers and to xOM to justify her actions.. and I'm sure he had quite a bit of bull about his GF as well, since that's part of how they play it... My GF isn't as good to me as you are, your H doesn't appreciate you like I do etc...
> 
> So really.. they discussed the BS, but at the time they are talking about made-up stuff... like 'he never spends time with me anymore'... no, because you're coming home late and are too tired.. probably all that sneaking and lying wearing you down.. 'my husband never wants sex with me'... No, he only wants it three times a day but was happy with three or five times a week because that's what he thought you were wanting. I'm sure he'd rather have you doing some guy at work than coming home for a quickie with him at lunch, because yea, guys hate that.... Lies fuel it.... lies about the BS.


You're likely right in this instance. They were "falling in love" so most everything they sai was complimentary of the OM/WS. I doubt she would be saying "my husbands so much bigger" or "sex is amazing with hubby" as they were likely lost in the fantasy at that point. No one likes facing the truth...


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> You're likely right in this instance. They were "falling in love" so most everything they sai was complimentary of the OM/WS. I doubt she would be saying "my husbands so much bigger" or "sex is amazing with hubby" as they were likely lost in the fantasy at that point. No one likes facing the truth...


When/If the WS wakes up, and realizes they are full of crap.. they also realize the OM/W is/was full of crap as well.... Takes a bit more of the shine off of Mr(s). perfect...


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

russell28 said:


> When/If the WS wakes up, and realizes they are full of crap.. they also realize the OM/W is/was full of crap as well.... Takes a bit more of the shine off of Mr(s). perfect...


Exactly... Then again someone people lie to themselves for years and years.. Such as that lady in another thread mad over her gross OM. Some people get stuck in the fantasy and can't see the truck driving straight at them. That's likely why they lie when first discovered... no one ever finds out in the fanasy.. All is perfect until the WS has hit rock bottom.

That's why DDay sometimes doesn't wake them up. 180 makes them hit rock bottom and face the truth of their addiction (OM/OW) and they realize what they're about to lose.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> Exactly... Then again someone people lie to themselves for years and years.. Such as that lady in another thread mad over her gross OM. Some people get stuck in the fantasy and can't see the truck driving straight at them. That's likely why they lie when first discovered... no one ever finds out in the fanasy.. All is perfect until the WS has hit rock bottom.
> 
> That's why DDay sometimes doesn't wake them up. 180 makes them hit rock bottom and face the truth of their addiction (OM/OW) and they realize what they're about to lose.


I'll never forget my WS telling the MC " I'm afraid when he comes to his senses he going to leave me fast." I didn't understand it at the time.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I would say and treat her exactly the same IRL face to face.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

She said there was nothing her first husband could have done to keep her from having an affair. Everything after that is moot!


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's subjective. Unless she could go back and relive her life with her first husband, and the first husband was on his game, she really has no idea. None of us do. But we know, objectively, that her 1st husband neglected her, had "mommy" chauffer him around because he didn't have a license and he didn't pull his weight with the household chores sure allows a person to build up enough resentment and a loss of respect to potentially do something stupid.


It's not subjective. She said it! Go back and look.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I would say and treat her exactly the same IRL face to face.


As would I.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Based on what little we know about the BS *(from the woman who chose to cheat on him)* here he:
> 
> He has a number of strikes against him.


Wow. Couldn't see that coming


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's subjective. Unless she could go back and relive her life with her first husband, and the first husband was on his game, she really has no idea. None of us do. But we know, objectively, that her 1st husband neglected her, had "mommy" chauffer him around because he didn't have a license and he didn't pull his weight with the household chores sure allows a person to build up enough resentment and a loss of respect to potentially do something stupid.


Did his mommy chauffeur him around before she took the wedding vows?


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

EI said:


> Please forgive the thread jack..... Annie, you rock! :thumbup:
> 
> End of thread jack!





larry.gray said:


> EI and Annie:
> 
> I think you may feel a level of kinship as a fellow WS. You also feel for her because you have been bashed to a degree here.
> 
> ...


Wow....... lg, thank you very much! I truly appreciate that.  My comment truly was meant only as a shout out to Annie and not geared towards the OP's thread, at all. That's why I apologized for the thread jack at the very beginning. 

The WS's that I feel a level of kinship with are the WS's who are seeking direction in trying to (God help me choose the right words here ... ) understand the enormity of the devastation of their own BS's and children brought on by their selfish choices, the WS who is seeking direction from other BS's in how to best help their BS heal, and the WS who is seeking a greater understanding of themselves so that they and their families have a greater chance of moving forward into happier and healthier lives whether they choose to reconcile or divorce. And, finally, I feel a level of kinship with those WS's who reach out to other WS's and to BS's in an effort to pay it forward and give someone else the direction, encouragement and inspiration that I received from others when I first found TAM.

But, like Annie, I found no positive value in the comments from BS's (and others) whose words were spoken _solely_ for the purpose of being punitive. While I can understand the desire to inflict emotional pain onto someone who is representative of their own WS's betrayal of them; calling me vile names, making incorrect accusations and making sweeping generalizations about ALL WS's did nothing to help me become a better person, to help me heal or to give me the directions and tools I needed to help my own BS heal. Those words were spoken only for the benefit of the one making the comments. The problem with that is, all too often, the ones who are genuinely seeking help will not come back and may never have another opportunity to access the very, very valuable help that can be found here and has undoubtedly been instrumental in changing the lives of countless BS's and WS's for the better.

But, as I said in my original comment. My post was a complete thread jack meant only to support Annie's statement. Now, it's an even bigger thread jack..... Sorry! 

Carry on.............

~ EI


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm typically more polite here, I think, than I am face to face. When I know someone personally, I am usually more informed and confident about whatever opinion I have.

I'm also the sort of person who would not have an affair if the marriage was bad. I would leave, divorce, or live in misery if divorce were somehow not possible. I have had relationships where my SO cheated (bigtime) and also relationships where my SO was not at all a nice person & I never cheated. My boundaries are very naturally strong in this regard. I think this is almost a personality type.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Since the OP hasn't been back, I don't feel so guilty about a threadjack. 

EI, you know I love ya, girl! Big hugs to you. 

Larry, I feel kinda bad for the OP. I know what it is like to be frustrated and at the end of your rope and you come here and people have nothing but negativity for you. That blows! I was just trying to inject a little encouragement to look at her situation honestly. Probably the optimist in me, but oh well lol.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Plan 9 are you sure your not a WS? Your rationalizing.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Yeah. I don't think we blame BS's enough on here. I mean, come on guys!! Own your sh-t.





***This post is written in jest. If any portion of it were in fact a true and heartfelt post you would be directed to your closest safe sight to ride out what surely would be the wrath of TAM. We now turn you back to your regularly scheduled threadjack and absent OP.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Rationalizing - To devise self-satisfying but incorrect reasons for one's behavior.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

Plan 9, for some people, myself included, the only acceptable courses of action in a bad marriage are listed below:



alte Dame said:


> I'm also the sort of person who would not have an affair if the marriage was bad. I would leave, divorce, or live in misery if divorce were somehow not possible.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> My boundaries are very naturally strong in this regard. I think this is almost a personality type.


Nothing my spouse does or doesn't do often enough will change my mind. This is my choice.


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## PreRaphaelite (Dec 15, 2012)

KimatraAKM said:


> Exactly... Then again someone people lie to themselves for years and years.. Such as that lady in another thread mad over her gross OM. Some people get stuck in the fantasy and can't see the truck driving straight at them. That's likely why they lie when first discovered... no one ever finds out in the fanasy.. All is perfect until the WS has hit rock bottom.
> 
> That's why DDay sometimes doesn't wake them up. 180 makes them hit rock bottom and face the truth of their addiction (OM/OW) and they realize what they're about to lose.


For some people, the fantasy never ends because if it did, they'd have to face up to life.


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## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree with you 100%. It's the same for me. But it's also quite possible to have your values eroded over time by being in a bad situation. Take the examples we read about with sexless marriages. If you are in a sexless marriage and you are the one craving the sexual relationship with your spouse, if the situation doesn't change and you are trying to work it out with your spouse, it's quite possible that you will be weakened to the point that you succumb to temptation. No, not everyone fails. Not everyone makes the poor choices to react to the sexless situation. But it's not outside the realm of possibility for good people to fail and fall for temptation.


There's never an out for cheating.. My husband cheated on me. Still not a good enough reason. If her husband is awful... Leave.

I do understand your point in that people (all people) make mistakes and do stupid things. That doesnt excuse it though. 

Sure we should be more understanding but I never think there is an excuse for cheating. It's never like "well she/he deserved to cheat".. There are 2 viable options as others have said: fix it or leave. Cheating is not leaving, cheating is moving on without notifying the other person. In my case cheating is getting even when the other person already thought they'd been forgiven.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's a strawman statement and you know it. You make it sound like I believe the BS is at fault 100% of the time in all affairs. I never made that statement. I also stated numerous times that cheating is never justified. However, cheating is a way to react to a bad situation. Some of the affairs that we read about here are clearly based happenings within a marriage.
> 
> I'll use an example I used before about someone having their car stolen. It's one thing if you have your car in a locked garage and the keys are kept away from the car - and someone goes to great efforts to steal your vehicle. However, it's a little different situation when you have your car stolen but you park it a block away from your home, leave the car unlocked and the keys in the ignition. In both cases, the thefts are clearly wrong. However, in the first situation the car owner made reasonable attempts to secure his property. In the latter case, the owner was irresponsible with his/her property and did not treat it with respect or care to be so careless with it. Surely you can see the difference.
> 
> Because the bottom line is that we are not dealing with 100% purely rational actors. We're all human and we can react to situations in stupid and irresponsible ways. So while the cheating is always the wrong answer, it is still a potential reaction to a bad situation if the BS is neglectful to the marriage for whatever reason.



Ummm...dude..........did you read _all_ of my post?!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I also find it wrong to draw the conclusion that all cheating is mutually exclusive from the quality of the marriage. This is an untrue statement to make for all situations.


I disagree, Cheating is a decision that one makes and not a reaction to a situation. To blame a cheater's decision to cheat on the quality of the marriage is wrong. Several other options were available and this (the worst and most hurtful of the possibilities) is the one that they chose. My wife and her AP used that same theory to defend their A. Finally after leaving the fog, my wife says that she chose her path (as did the AP, and admits he is wrong as he still believes it) and to say it was a reaction is wrong. She says she should have either went into counseling or petitioned for divorce.

The car theft analogy is not fully correct either. Just because someone legally parks their car a distance from their destination does not make them more responsible for the theft of their vehicle. ARe they more susceptible to issues with their vehicle by parking there? YEs, but that doesn't make them more responsible.

Should we remap our routes so that we don't drive past bars, as by your logic having to drive past bars makes us more responsible for being hit by a drunk driver?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I see your point, but c'mon. Unlike issues like sexual history that cannot be changed no matter how hard you try, this is something that is easily fixed. It's a tangible issue that can be remedied with a little bit of studying, practicing and making the time to take the test. You rarely get the whole story about an individual before you enter the marriage. Despite the fact that I think she could have vetted the first husband better, plenty of people on here have fallen into similar traps and have been treated much differently.
> 
> If the OP would have simply divorced, then the marriage problems would have been laid at the feet of the BS and everyone would have thought him a fool. However, since she stupidly responded to his laziness and stupidity by being stupid herself, the BS is practically exonerated and all the scorn shifts towards the OP (not only on this thread). Funny how that works.


Easily fixed? Did she tell him before she married him that he'd need to fix that problem or she'd cheat on him? She probably knew about the driving thing.. I doubt that it didn't come out until after the marriage. A clue might have been when his mommy drove them on the first date.

My point is that if you marry a fool, and then you get angry after you're married because your husband acts like a fool.. don't use that to justify your affair. You married the fool, you can divorce the fool. Who cares what others would have thought.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

If she would not have dressed so provocatively she would have not been raped. Please..The victim here is the BS not the WS. In any way.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Reality is there are some betrayed who have neglected their spouses. They have been manipulative and some downright horrible people.

However, the wayward has every f'ng opportunity to walk. Period.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Blame the WS for being wayward. Period. Grow up and take responsibility for your actions.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> If she would not have dressed so provocatively she would have not been raped. Please..The victim here is the BS not the WS. In any way.


Many BS get "dumped on".


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree. Cheating is not justified, but it's not exactly a shocking or unexpected result if a BS is a poor marriage partner. There are clearly better choices to be made. I won't excuse the cheating, but it will be one of the choices a spouse could make as a reaction to a poor marriage. That's my only point, and IMHO it's not driven home nearly enough on this forum.


What is a "poor marriage partner"? Someone who is neglectful and/or abusive?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I think Bela Lugosi has something to spill.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree. Cheating is not justified, but it's not exactly a shocking or unexpected result if a BS is a poor marriage partner. There are clearly better choices to be made. I won't excuse the cheating, but it will be one of the choices a spouse could make as a reaction to a poor marriage. That's my only point, and IMHO it's not driven home nearly enough on this forum.


I'd say it's driven home quite well, actually. Plenty of people have said they were neglectful and yet, the stance remains the same: (s)he could have left rather than cheat. And I think that's valid. If you're not getting through the thick skull of your spouse, then walk. You keep saying "I agree...I agree, but...." No, not "but". Adding "but" is just another way of rationalizing, justifying the actions of the cheater. Cheating should never be an option, no matter what. Yea, I know, I'm going to get the same "I agree, but..." Just stop at "I agree", ok?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

treyvion said:


> What is a "poor marriage partner"? Someone who is neglectful and/or abusive?


Speaking of neglectful...that's subjective anyway. One person may see not doing the dishes as neglectful. Some may see not giving hugs as neglectful. Who decides what is "neglectful"?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Speaking of neglectful...that's subjective anyway. One person may see not doing the dishes as neglectful. Some may see not giving hugs as neglectful. Who decides what is "neglectful"?


I think what plan 9 is saying is no BS is ever blindsided by their WS.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm sure you have a good understanding of what makes a person a solid contributor to a marriage vs. one who is little better than a parasite. Sure, neglecting your spouse by never talking to them, withholding sex, verbal abuse, physical abuse, refusing to find a job to help the household, putting friends first, putting the kids first in everything and refusing to reserve time for your spouse, etc. etc... From what I can tell, these things normally come in bunches and are rarely isolated to one thing.


Right, it's usually not just one thing. They all indicate relative priority on the situation.

However, with the shoe on the other foot. I wonder how my wife at the time felt when I was deeply into hobbies,the computer, forget some of the things she said and was not as attentive as I could be? Perhaps that felt neglectful?

When we had sex, she orgasmed each time, unless she just wanted to put me to sleep...

The bills were paid, and I did some of the chores around the house.

After going through a bad situation, I became alot more attentive, I know what my current likes, dislikes, watch her perception to things, concerned about her interests, etc - probably easily 2x more than my earlier situation... However I'm not getting the response I prefer. That alpha/beta ying/yang thing. 

I would say neglectful would be ignoring the needs and concerns of the partner. Perhaps deeply upsetting them in the process.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I think what plan 9 is saying is no BS is ever blindsided by their WS.


And that sentiment is bs as well. How many threads have we seen where the BS has done all the right things and yet, the WS cheated anyway? And, often...VERY often.... the WS exaggerates the marital problems for sympathy.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Of course not. But don't go crying to everyone that your wife is cheating on you if you 1) refuse to have sex with her, 2) constantly play your X-box instead of spending time with her and 3) Lay around the house while your wife does all the household work. By my logic, doing something like that in your marriage increases the odds that you will either by divorced, cheated on or asked by your wife to go to MC... For the record, I'm not saying this example explains your situation. I have no idea what your situation was.


IMHO your logic is flawed. When the above happens, you say that the BS is responsible as they were lax in their marriage, yet, when the BS comes on here and described their marriage as none of those things, the posters here claim the BS was Mr. Nice Guy, put the WS on a pedestal, was beta, the WS has a mental illness, addiction, etc. 

There is no reason or excuse that justifies or makes cheating anything more than what it is, a DECISION to be entirely owned by and the responsibility of the cheater.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I agree. Cheating is not justified, but it's not exactly a shocking or unexpected result if a *BS *is a poor marriage partner. There are clearly better choices to be made. I won't excuse the cheating, but it will be one of the choices a spouse could make as a reaction to a poor marriage. That's my only point, and IMHO it's not driven home nearly enough on this forum.


You got one thing right... I bolded it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Since the OP hasn't been back, I don't feel so guilty about a threadjack.
> 
> EI, you know I love ya, girl! Big hugs to you.
> 
> Larry, I feel kinda bad for the OP. I know what it is like to be frustrated and at the end of your rope and you come here and people have nothing but negativity for you. That blows! I was just trying to inject a little encouragement to look at her situation honestly. Probably the optimist in me, but oh well lol.


OP is in Wales, I think. There was an Earthquake in Wales.

She might be busy.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Listen, bud. I worked my f'ng ass off flying a jet 38,000 feet in the air to bring home dough to pay for our lives together. Yeah, we may have had some communication problems, but don't think for one f'ng second that I had _any_ thought or inkling that she was out having an affair.

Do NOT think you know anything about how some of us had sh-t shoved down our throats on f'ng Dday. Ever.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Plan 9, I'm puzzled by your rationalizations. I agree with you about the bashing in the thread - i dislike that too. I also get the idea that a poor marriage can cause one to consider being unfaithfull - just considering it as some sort of emotional first aid.

But you're going further than that - you state that if my partner cheated as a result of a marriage in a bad condition (in my case, we disagree on the degree of badness). Would you agree that some waywards rewrite and post-rationalize?

I know you like analogies - how about these then:

* It's understandable that poor people rob banks - the banks are partly responsible because of high interest on loans
* It's understandable that people get mugged on the street, because so many violent people had trobled childhoods - victims should know better than making eye contact with potential offenders
* How about this one.... people who were betrayed by their SO, it's quite understandable and partly acceptable that they beat up the disloyal spouse as a result

What's wrong with this picture? It's a rethorical question, it removes responsibility and accountability from the offenders in question.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

I can see what *Plan 9 from OS* is saying. Certain situations will make some people consider cheating when those people otherwise would have not. Of those people who consider cheating, some of them go through with it. 
I don't believe he is saying that all BS should have seen it coming. Your situation isn't necessarily what he is talking about. There are many different ways that cheating happens to many different kind of people by many different kind of people. 
In the end everyone agrees that it is the choice of the WS to cheat. However what happens before the WS comes to that decision, behaviour of the spouse for example, can influence the WS's decision.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> I can see what *Plan 9 from OS* is saying. Certain situations will make some people consider cheating when those people otherwise would have not. Of those people who consider cheating, some of them go through with it.
> I don't believe he is saying that all BS should have seen it coming. Your situation isn't necessarily what he is talking about. There are many different ways that cheating happens to many different kind of people by many different kind of people.
> In the end everyone agrees that it is the choice of the WS to cheat. However what happens before the WS comes to that decision, behaviour of the spouse for example, can influence the WS's decision.


So behavior of the spouse can influence? Really the WS spouse doesn't have any responsibility to change or work on the marriage as well? It is all the BS's behavior that drives their actions (where is the reaction theory here)? This is the way it is coming across, that the BS is the problem. Maybe the marriage is sexless, because of something the WS has done and the lack of sex is the BS's "reaction" to that (or maybe the BS just was never brought up in an affectionate household and thinks this is the normal amount?). The same could be said for neglect or any of the other reasons given. Why isn't it just assumed that the BS is acting a certain way because that is the way they are (if it was a reaction, then they would be responsible as well, but would you rather be ignored or cheated on)? I think if this is the case the BS made a better decision.

Everyone is just too driven to find fault and place blame.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> So behavior of the spouse can influence? Really the WS spouse doesn't have any responsibility to change or work on the marriage as well? It is all the BS's behavior that drives their actions (where is the reaction theory here)? This is the way it is coming across, that the BS is the problem. Maybe the marriage is sexless, because of something the WS has done and the lack of sex is the BS's "reaction" to that (or maybe the BS just was never brought up in an affectionate household and thinks this is the normal amount?). The same could be said for neglect or any of the other reasons given. Why isn't it just assumed that the BS is acting a certain way because that is the way they are (if it was a reaction, then they would be responsible as well, but would you rather be ignored or cheated on)? I think if this is the case the BS made a better decision.
> 
> Everyone is just too driven to find fault and place blame.


Here's what I did to make my wife cheat...

I played video games.. about two hours a night, when she is watching tv and i'm sitting beside her on the couch... also talking about the television show, because I'm listening to it.
She was jealous of the avatar I was controlling, it was a female character. I also played quite a bit the last few years since she was out shopping so much.

I never took her anywhere.. while she was with her OM, I took her to Florida four times.. we always went out to eat, went shopping together, took day trips to cape cod etc.. Went for walks.. I guess what she meant was I never took her to Hawaii? Or that she wanted me to take her places, but with some other guy and then I would leave.. not sure... She went with him for walks in the woods.

I never helped with the kids... I always did stuff with my kids, took my son and daughters to ball games and dance.. Never missed a recital, or a game.. Always played catch, blocks, cars, dolls... Spent all weekend at travel games. I'm very close to my children.. She never went to any of my sons basketball games, a few baseball games.. was too busy shopping.

She felt I was too smart for her... I Brought home lots of money to buy a big house, two nice cars.. I got my wife a Honda Pilot, because that's what she wanted. Live on a dead end street, pond in back, porch, nice sounds at night.. privacy. She brought him here one day after work, when I took the kids to the amusement park by myself. He could never afford a house like this one, I bet he enjoyed his time here.

Never helped out around the house.. I tried to make dinner, but she didn't like my cooking even though I'm probably a better cook than she is, so I let her make meals.. I did the yardwork, painted the house, fix stuff, drive kids places, wash stuff, do dishes, laundry and vaccum... I guess I should have also washed and waxed the floor, I never did that. I wonder how helfpul OM was around his house.. he probably told her he did it all, cooking, cleaning AND windows.

She felt old... I always told her how beautiful she looked, how nice she smelled.. how much I adore her.. never stopped. If I could choose between a Victorias secret model or her, I'd choose her every time and I made that clear. She didn't want to hear it from me, she wanted another guy to validate it for her. We had a healthy sex life.. made love mornings and nights, some weeks more than others, but 3 to 6 times a week average, always brought the passion although hers seemed to fade a bit for a few years.. probably thinking about shopping while I was focused on how lucky I was to have such a beautiful woman beneath me.

Now am I perfect? Hell no.. I have flaws.. I can't read minds, and when my wife pretends to be happy, but is dying inside, I have no idea if she doesn't tell me. I'm trusting, and I think that because I've been able to avoid putting myself in situations that might lead me to temptation, I've assumed she's done the same. I think when I feel such love, that she must know I feel it.. I think that when I get her flowers, and tell her I love her, she'll believe me.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Yes... No one knows the pain of DDay until they have lived it. Period. Don't think you can understand. You only know you can by living it.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Russell28,

You caused her reactive cheating as you put her on a pedestal, were too beta (alpha up!!!), and were Mr. Nice Guy. It is all your fault and you need to own most of the marital issues and 50% of the responsibility for her cheating!!!! She will cheat on you again unless you man up!!! Start your D now!!!



In case anyone takes this seriously, I am just kidding with all of this (really wish there was a sarcasm font before people go hog wild with this). It just seems to be the standard response when someone posts the above, and I wanted to get in first! 

I actually feel your pain and although I know I did my part in my marriage, I am not going to own any of her bad decision!


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> So behavior of the spouse can influence?


 Yes.



> Really the WS spouse doesn't have any responsibility to change or work on the marriage as well?


 The WS does have that responsibility to work and help change the marriage.



> It is all the BS's behavior that drives their actions (where is the reaction theory here)?


 Not all. 



> This is the way it is coming across, that the BS is the problem.


 Sometimes the BS is the problem, sometimes being the key word.



> Maybe the marriage is sexless, because of something the WS has done and the lack of sex is the BS's "reaction" to that (or maybe the BS just was never brought up in an affectionate household and thinks this is the normal amount?). The same could be said for neglect or any of the other reasons given. Why isn't it just assumed that the BS is acting a certain way because that is the way they are (if it was a reaction, then they would be responsible as well, but would you rather be ignored or cheated on)?


 This is possible as well.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

russell28 said:


> Here's what I did to make my wife cheat...
> 
> I played video games.. about two hours a night, when she is watching tv and i'm sitting beside her on the couch... also talking about the television show, because I'm listening to it.
> She was jealous of the avatar I was controlling, it was a female character. I also played quite a bit the last few years since she was out shopping so much.
> ...


I don't recall anyone saying you made your wife cheat. 
No need to get defensive. No one is attacking you.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> Russell28,
> 
> You caused her reactive cheating as you put her on a pedestal, were too beta (alpha up!!!), and were Mr. Nice Guy. It is all your fault and you need to own most of the marital issues and 50% of the responsibility for her cheating!!!! She will cheat on you again unless you man up!!! Start your D now!!!
> 
> ...


I'm in R because she won't let me own any of this.. she's taking 100% of the blame for the A.. The first few days after dday I got stuff like "I told you I thought we should get counseling" .. I asked why she never set that up. It didn't take her long to realize it was all on her, 0% on me... She never asked me if I would be okay with her having a boyfriend. I would have said no.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, or I can't work on things.. I can be a better husband, but only if I know there's a problem.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Don't come off as cornering the market on misery in marriage. Yeah, I haven't been cheated on, but don't try to tell me that I'm incapable of feeling heartache and misery just because my wife didn't cheat. Yeah, I may have never had any sh!t shoveled down my throat via a d-day, but don't think for ONE SECOND that I hadn't had my own share of sh!t shoveled down my throat being married and having a family.
> 
> I've never been shot. Does that mean I'm incapable of understanding the dangers of firearms? Of course not. So why in the fvck do you think I'm incapable of understanding the issues with infidelity just because I haven't personally experienced it? I'm sick and tired of you people making these blanket statements that some of us are incapable of understanding things or are stupid just because we haven't been exposed to it.


Plan 9, he wasn't saying, at all, that you "incapable of feeling heartache and misery". He was saying that you cannot understand that SPECIFIC heartache. Just as I cannot understand how it feels to raise an autistic child because I do not have one. I can SYMPATHIZE, but I can't KNOW. And that's the point some are tying to make. Someone who has never been there can always give the "what if you did this, or that, etc" speech. But someone who HAS gone through that sees it as a slam. Just as I, not having an autistic child, could question your parenting skills if your child has a meltdown, because mine are perfectly well behaved in public... how would that make you feel? I suspect that, either you would lash out, seethe inside, or explode when you got home. Yea... that reaction? That's how a BS feels when someone who has never had infidelity points out "well, ya know, you could have/should have done this...."... when they WERE doing the right things. Understand? 

Now, I COULD be wrong about how Dig as well as others interpret the posts. But I know that's how it looks, to me.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Kermitty said:


> I don't recall anyone saying you made your wife cheat.
> No need to get defensive. No one is attacking you.


Read the quote I'm replying to.. you _might _understand why I was using sarcasm..

edit: Maricha75 summed it up quite nicely above my post.. thank you much.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

russell28 said:


> Read the quote I'm replying to.. you _might _understand why I was using sarcasm..
> 
> edit: Maricha75 summed it up quite nicely above my post.. thank you much.



I understood your point and figured you were responding to mine as tongue in cheek sarcasm, so I played along!! 

I agree with Maricha75 whole heartedly.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

wow. one in a million really means nothing today. this basically sums up my marriage:



> Here's what I did to make my wife cheat...
> 
> I played video games.. about two hours a night, when she is watching tv and i'm sitting beside her on the couch... also talking about the television show, because I'm listening to it.
> She was jealous of the avatar I was controlling, it was a female character. I also played quite a bit the last few years since she was out shopping so much.
> ...


went through very this to a T. basicallt i was a good man, but her "needs" changed and i didnt recognize them. Probably a good thing to or the divorce would have come BEFORE the affair as her needs became selfish and harmful to the relationship. 

but here is the question i have in all this. most cheaters talk about how aunhappy they were, as did mine, and how they hold you at least semi- resposible if not entirely.

but my spouse wants R...... why would a cheater want to R when the person they cheated on was so horrible in the first place. rings hollow to me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OP missing since yesterday and trench warfare has broken out in her absence. Job done, huh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

I mean it when I say no one knows the pain of DDay unless they've had one. No one here has experienced more pain in their life than I. Plan 9 has not either. Take your self righteous ideals about marriage somewhere else. I was blindsided may times the the past 49 years. DDay just one of them. The WS takes ALL the blame in being wayward.


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## EHuntIMF (Nov 8, 2011)

x598 said:


> wow. one in a million really means nothing today. this basically sums up my marriage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

x598 said:


> wow. one in a million really means nothing today. this basically sums up my marriage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine doesn't hold me responsible for her being unhappy.. she said that she knows I told her she was pretty, but she didn't feel pretty so even though I told her, she still felt ugly. She felt stupid, so even though I told her I wouldn't be married to a stupid person, that I chose her because she challenged me and was funny.. she thought I was just saying that to be nice. She said her biggest problem was that she didn't think I loved her, even though I couldn't have loved her more, she convinced herself that I was too good for her, she wasn't in my league, and I was going to leave her or wanted to leave her etc.. She keeps telling me that she had no idea how much I loved her until I decided to R. 

So she's feeling crappy about herself.. some guy props her ego up.. She's wondering about her husband, he's telling her how he would do things perfectly and how her husband doesn't appreciate her etc.. it spirals. She's weak.. He's handsome and likes her.. It doesn't mean she never loved you, it means she's in a bad place and needs you more than she ever has in her life, but instead of telling you, she tells her new 'friend'.. and he comforts her. He takes advantage of your weak woman because he's a person with no moral compass and likes to prey on people who need his help instead of giving them good advice, to go to the husband and tell them how they feel. Instead he makes her feel pretty, it sounds better coming from this guy.

You find out, you confront her, she's faced with her new life.. alone in an apartment or with this guy who she knows isn't better than you, but actually a loser... he lies and cheats. She can go two ways.. blame you, hate you, you caused it.. or she can own it, and accept that she's been living a horrible life for the entire A, and it hasn't helped her in any way, in fact it almost destroyed her life. She can finally see all those things mentioned in the post above, that you are a good dad and were a good husband.. that fight about wearing a wedding ring, she now realizes you were right and she was a mean POS. She cries, and tells you that she doesn't understand how you can forgive her, that you're too good for her, that you deserve better and that she'll work as hard as she can and do whatever it takes, for the rest of her life to fix her marriage because it's the most important thing to her in the world and she can't believe she risked it all. She hates the person she was and never wants to be that person again. She understands what boundaries are, and where they were crossed. She no longer says things like 'you can be friends with a guy and not have it go beyond friendship'... she understands that isn't the case, she knows that you'll start to fill each others emotional needs, and get attached. She needs to be capable of feeling pain and remorse for her actions, and needs to be capable of learning and changing her behaviors.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

x598 said:


> but here is the question i have in all this. most cheaters talk about how aunhappy they were, as did mine, and how they hold you at least semi- resposible if not entirely.
> 
> but my spouse wants R...... why would a cheater want to R when the person they cheated on was so horrible in the first place. rings hollow to me.


I can't speak to why your wife wanted R but I can tell you why I did. We have a son together and he showed me 24 hours later that he was willing to seriously work on the things that he neglected. Had I seen no change in the next weeks after DDay, I would have said we need to seperate.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> I can't speak to why your wife wanted R but I can tell you why I did. We have a son together and he showed me 24 hours later that he was willing to seriously work on the things that he neglected. Had I seen no change in the next weeks after DDay, I would have said we need to seperate.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you also tell him that you were willing to work on things on YOUR end? I'm actually a bit...floored... that he was the one having to do the "serious work" and changing. I would hope you made a lot of changes, yourself, as well.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I mean it when I say no one knows the pain of DDay unless they've had one. No one here has experienced more pain in their life than I. Plan 9 has not either. Take your self righteous ideals about marriage somewhere else. I was blindsided may times the the past 49 years. DDay just one of them. The WS takes ALL the blame in being wayward.


DDay sucks. I've been betrayed when I was younger as a kid, but you move on. When I realized for a fact that that I was being cheated on, and SHE DID NOT CARE about me - I was literally knocked from my body... It was excruciating pain, and subconsciously you want to use your former "lover", "wife", etc as a mirror and/or anchor, and it's just not doing that for you. It was a serious amount of pain. I tried to fight through it, tried to recover - but that relationship partner was using our old connectivity to intentially inject pain and suffering into me.

That situation is the one that tought me about how WAS's work. I'm almost sure I'm at a point where if I realize it's a true WAS situation, that you HAVE to let go if you value your sanity and physical health.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

EI said:


> But, like Annie, I found no positive value in the comments from BS's (and others) whose words were spoken _solely_ for the purpose of being punitive.


Problem is, and many here can see it, there is no value in this thread. Some WS coming here to educate "US men" under the guise of helping. She was simply waiting for the right questions to unload what she really wanted to say. But she wasn't getting those questions, so her answers were short.

Why play games? You want to say something to "US men", then say it.

This was not a thread designed to help. More of a "I'll tell you men exactly why you were cheated on". We just didn't give her that opportunity.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> Since the OP hasn't been back, I don't feel so guilty about a threadjack.
> 
> EI, you know I love ya, girl! Big hugs to you.
> 
> Larry, I feel kinda bad for the OP. I know what it is like to be frustrated and at the end of your rope and you come here and people have nothing but negativity for you.


Is it being COMPLETELY missed that its obvious she isn't here to help with this thread? Read some of the responses from most who replied who aren't fooled.

Now if she were here looking for insight to her situation and wasn't seeking to blameshift, etc. and received negativity, then I'd agree.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> Reality is there are some betrayed who have neglected their spouses. They have been manipulative and some downright horrible people.
> 
> However, the wayward has every f'ng opportunity to walk. Period.


you man you  You need an education as to why you were cheated on.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

dusty4 said:


> Is it being COMPLETELY missed that its obvious she isn't here to help with this thread? Read some of the responses from most who replied who aren't fooled.
> 
> Now if she were here looking for insight to her situation and wasn't seeking to blameshift, etc. and received negativity, then I'd agree.


It is all very exhausting to me. I don't know why she came here. Or if "she" is even a "she." Or if this thread is legit or whatever. I don't like the round and round and round. So, it's fine. You win. She's evil. We're all evil. We cheat on perfectly good men who don't neglect us sexually, emotionally. We're nothing but succubi.

Good luck to everyone.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> You find out, you confront her, she's faced with her new life.. alone in an apartment or with this guy who she knows isn't better than you, but actually a loser... he lies and cheats. She can go two ways.. blame you, hate you, you caused it.. or she can own it, and accept that she's been living a horrible life for the entire A, and it hasn't helped her in any way, in fact it almost destroyed her life. She can finally see all those things mentioned in the post above, that you are a good dad and were a good husband.. that fight about wearing a wedding ring, she now realizes you were right and she was a mean POS. She cries, and tells you that she doesn't understand how you can forgive her, that you're too good for her, that you deserve better and that she'll work as hard as she can and do whatever it takes, for the rest of her life to fix her marriage because it's the most important thing to her in the world and she can't believe she risked it all. She hates the person she was and never wants to be that person again. She understands what boundaries are, and where they were crossed. She no longer says things like 'you can be friends with a guy and not have it go beyond friendship'... she understands that isn't the case, she knows that you'll start to fill each others emotional needs, and get attached. She needs to be capable of feeling pain and remorse for her actions, and needs to be capable of learning and changing her behaviors.


meeting her needs in a time of weakness? sure. but the one thing i think is missing is the fact that there is an alure of fun, danger, excitiement to break up or take away real life. when i finally understood that my wife not just wanted the affair, but that it was fun and adventurous, i saw things differently. never again will i feel like she was lost or out of control, things just spiraling. no Fing way. it was all a grand time at my and my childrens expense.



[QUOTEIt is all very exhausting to me. I don't know why she came here. Or if "she" is even a "she." Or if this thread is legit or whatever. I don't like the round and round and round. So, it's fine. You win. She's evil. We're all evil. We cheat on perfectly good men who don't neglect us sexually, emotionally. We're nothing but succubi.
][/QUOTE]

well in hetro circles, it take TWO to cheat......so there are just as many guilty men out there as women. never understood why it was men that generally got a bad rap on this.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Did you also tell him that you were willing to work on things on YOUR end? I'm actually a bit...floored... that he was the one having to do the "serious work" and changing. I would hope you made a lot of changes, yourself, as well.


Yes, I told him that I would put in every effort to make things work. He was actually the one doing the "serious work" and once he made our marriage and family a priority, it was easy for me to be the wife that he wanted. It took some time for me to let go of the resentment I had and some acceptance about things I learned in therapy but for the most part, I don't think I changed.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

AnnieAsh said:


> It is all very exhausting to me. I don't know why she came here. Or if "she" is even a "she." Or if this thread is legit or whatever. I don't like the round and round and round. So, it's fine. You win. She's evil. We're all evil. *We cheat on perfectly good men who don't neglect us sexually, emotionally*. We're nothing but succubi.


Ok, just cut it out. No you are not all evil. You are simply taking up for someone in a thread that is NOT designed to genuinely help us, but is just itching to tell us why we have been cheated on. Thats all. She is not you or any of the other WS's/cheaters.

As far as the bolded, well, even though you mean it with sarcasm, this is some of that great finger pointing I'm sure she was just waiting to unload on "US men"


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> Ok, just cut it out. No you are not all evil. You are simply taking up for someone in a thread that is NOT designed to genuinely help us, but is just itching to tell us why we have been cheated on. Thats all. She is not you or any of the other WS's/cheaters.
> 
> As far as the bolded, well, even though you mean it with sarcasm, this is some of that great finger pointing I'm sure she was just waiting to unload on "US men"


Actually the sad truth is in some percentage of cases, the bolded statements is the truth. They needed someone "good" to cheat on because it makes them feel empowered. They know it hurts the other person, but they do not care.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> It is all very exhausting to me. I don't know why she came here. Or if "she" is even a "she." Or if this thread is legit or whatever. I don't like the round and round and round. So, it's fine. You win. She's evil. We're all evil. We cheat on perfectly good men who don't neglect us sexually, emotionally. We're nothing but succubi.
> 
> Good luck to everyone.


Annie, you're better than this. Stop it. Even I saw the real purpose if this particular thread. It has nothing to do with "All cheaters". It has to do with THIS particular one thinking she could show the men a thing or two.... and it backfired on her... badly. I can honestly say I wouldn't come here (and didn't!) and say "Hey, you know why your wife had an EA??" Nor would you. Neither you, nor I (nor any other WS on here) is THIS particular WS. So don't do that. Don't stoop to that level.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> Yes, I told him that I would put in every effort to make things work. He was actually the one doing the "serious work" and once he made our marriage and family a priority, it was easy for me to be the wife that he wanted. It took some time for me to let go of the resentment I had and some acceptance about things I learned in therapy but *for the most part, I don't think I changed*.


Uhhh... I beg to differ. Unless you mean you always had the propensity to cheat...


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> Yes, I told him that I would put in every effort to make things work. He was actually the one doing the "serious work" and once he made our marriage and family a priority, it was easy for me to be the wife that he wanted. It took some time for me to let go of the resentment I had and some acceptance about things I learned in therapy *but for the most part, I don't think I changed.*


Well, if my wife after being unfaithfull, had said this to me, she would have faced divorce papers within 5 minutes (I have a slow printer).


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Maricha has firmly chastised me! That's why I like her.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Why do I get this feeling of entitlement creeping in on me? Those of you defending infidelity on the grounds of a marriage in bad shape - do you advocate revenge affairs as well? 

My marriage didn't get any better after her cheating, to say the least, so now the relationship is definitely in bad shape - does that mean that I'm entitled to have some fun on the side now?


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

x598 said:


> but my spouse wants R...... why would a cheater want to R when the person they cheated on was so horrible in the first place. rings hollow to me.


Maybe becasue it's cold out there...
Maybe she still loves the potential, hope the old you might come back? Maybe she loves the potential new couple. Maybe she's not a quitter. Maybe...

Ask her.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Uhhh... I beg to differ. Unless you mean you always had the propensity to cheat...


The propensity? I've never had an inclination towards cheating and I don't now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Well, if my wife after being unfaithfull, had said this to me, she would have faced divorce papers within 5 minutes (I have a slow printer).


If its the truth, why would it bother you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> The propensity? *I've never had an inclination towards cheating* and I don't now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Really? So how did you manage to cheat then? Perhaps you could say, instead, that before you cheated, you never thought you would be "that person", just like I never thought I would either... and now, I don't feel inclined to cheat. It still doesn't change the fact that you did and I did as well. But to say that your spouse had to do all these changes in order for you to take him back? And follow it up with "for the most part, I don't think I changed".... At some point, you DID change, if you maintain that you never were inclined to cheat before you did. Just as I did. And, while there was a lot my husband had to do (he cheated as well), it was on me to do the big stuff in relation to MY cheating. It wasn't on him. It was on me.

So this is why I say you are wrong when you say you didn't change. If you weren't inclined to cheat before, then you DID change... you cheated. That's a change.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

Well then yes, I changed in that I realized that cheating was the wrong choice and divorce is a viable option if it ever comes to that again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> If its the truth, why would it bother you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you for real?? If she says "I'm illoyal and like to cheat on you, and I don't intend to change..." - well, maybe it wouldn't bother me, I would just ask her to pack her bags.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> But that's the thing I cheated but if from the beginning of our marriage if he gave me regular sex, leant how to drive, didn't expect me to do every aspect of the house work and work a 40 hour week as well I wouldn't have gone looking elsewhere cos I would have been happy
> 
> We both had faults, we were young living on our own for the first time
> 
> I went about this is totally the wrong way


I hate you 
I hate you 
I hate you
I hate you...

Heh. Kidding. Welcome to TAM. Kind of a hard landing. Oh well.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Are you for real?? If she says "I'm illoyal and like to cheat on you, and I don't intend to change..." - well, maybe it wouldn't bother me, I would just ask her to pack her bags.


You misunderstood. When I wrote I would put in the effort to make things work, that meant I was putting an end to the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malcolm38 (Dec 25, 2012)

This is one of those threads that puts the fear of God into me about ever getting married again.


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

Well I really did not want to get into this one I read it but even that was well crazy. I try not to post unless I think I can help someone otherwise I would rather keep my mouth shut. Kermity I have looked at most of your threads and I can say that it looks like you just don't want to be married to your man. Nothing wrong with that but you have to understand the WS that post DO want to married yes they made bad choices but many of them have worked DAMN hard to fix not only the problems their cheating caused but also the underlying problems of the relationship. For all of that they are to be commended, how we go about fixing the wreckage of our mistakes is a mark of character. What sometimes gets lost is that a WS can leave the relationship as well as the BS those that stay take a huge amount of pain not just from a hurting BS but from themselves as often cheating is something against their core morality so their self image is destroyed. I am not excusing the BS pain just for this post I am focusing on the WS.

Now lets look at you. All your threads are about how you are unhappy or have unrealistic expectations. For the affair you admit you were wrong but then you say your husband drove you to it. You also state that he has changed and that makes you want to stay with him. I don't think I need to draw direct contradictions for you to get it.

The BS are so upset because in your posts it is all about you, your husbands trust was violated but since you would rather not be married or have had kids you don't seem to value this. The point is that in your posts you don't seem to feel the regret that many WS do I think the heart of this is because you don't value that which you betrayed, your marriage. I mean really if you could go back and undue the marriage you would, your posting reflects that.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think this thread may help push a lot of BS that were considering R, all the way firmly to D.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

CEL said:


> Kermity I have looked at most of your threads and I can say that it looks like you just don't want to be married to your man.


I do want to be married and I am here trying to figure out how to make that marriage a happy one. 



> but you have to understand the WS that post DO want to married yes they made bad choices but many of them have worked DAMN hard to fix not only the problems their cheating caused but also the underlying problems of the relationship.


 I never said I'm not working hard to change my marriage and finding feelings for my husband. I've done what he's asked in terms of regaining his trust. 



> Now lets look at you. All your threads are about how you are unhappy or have unrealistic expectations.


 I wouldn't say that is what my posts are about. My posts are about my trying to find a way to be as happily married as those that say they are and to understand what happily married means as well as if I have unrealistic expectations or what expectations one should have for marriage. 


> For the affair you admit you were wrong but then you say your husband drove you to it. You also state that he has changed and that makes you want to stay with him. I don't think I need to draw direct contradictions for you to get it.


 Direct contradictions? Not sure what you mean. I never said my husband drove me to it. My point as the point that was trying to be made earlier by another poster, was that the situation had become such that I found myself seeing the option to cheat as actually appealing. I choose to cheat and that was not my husband's doing. My husband's role was that of causing the breakdown of our marriage and my "falling out of love" with him. 



> The BS are so upset because in your posts it is all about you, your husbands trust was violated but since you would rather not be married or have had kids you don't seem to value this.


 My posts are about me because I'm the one posting trying to figure things out. I'm not going to post on behalf of my husband. Again, I already said I want to be married and never did I say I would rather have not had kids. I love my son and he was the driving force for our trying to work things out in the very beginning. 


> The point is that in your posts you don't seem to feel the regret that many WS do I think the heart of this is because you don't value that which you betrayed, your marriage.


 I didn't value my marriage, hence why I was able to cheat. I wasn't in a marriage that was worthy of being valued, in my opinion. I regret the hurt that I saw in my husband's eyes and in hindsight I would have done things differently. 



> I mean really if you could go back and undue the marriage you would, your posting reflects that.


 That's not accurate and there is no point of even stating that. HOw many times does a WS state if they could go back and undue the cheating they would. In fact I just did. Does that make anyone feel any better? They usually get bashed for saying those words.

I don't know how this became all about me. I was just supporting a point that someone was trying to make. Then I answered a question. I assure you there are plenty of WS that are in my shoes. Most of them won't say so because they don't wish to suffer the wrath that is TAM versus the WS.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

EI said:


> But, like Annie, I found no positive value in the comments from BS's (and others) whose words were spoken _solely_ for the purpose of being punitive. While I can understand the desire to inflict emotional pain onto someone who is representative of their own WS's betrayal of them; calling me vile names, making incorrect accusations and making sweeping generalizations about ALL WS's did nothing to help me become a better person, to help me heal or to give me the directions and tools I needed to help my own BS heal. Those words were spoken only for the benefit of the one making the comments. The problem with that is, all too often, the ones who are genuinely seeking help will not come back and may never have another opportunity to access the very, very valuable help that can be found here and has undoubtedly been instrumental in changing the lives of countless BS's and WS's for the better.


I'm sure I haven't seen a lot of the bashing that you've been on the receiving end of. I did see what Tears was subjected to and it was reprehensible. Here was a woman who was *INSTANTLY disgusted* by her bad choice to cheat. She laid her soul bare to this forum.

What happened to her? Every BS who had an unrepentant spouse wanted to tell things to her that would slide off their own WS's back without stinging. 

That's the tough balancing act for the moderators. You don't need a tough time, neither did tears. She needed caring advice. But that's not the case for all WS. Some of them need cold honesty to cut the "fog." 

For that matter more than a few BS need tough talk too.


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## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> If she would not have dressed so provocatively she would have not been raped. Please..The victim here is the BS not the WS. In any way.


No woman deserves to be raped.

But a shapely woman dressed in a short skirt walking through a bad neighborhood is being an idiot.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Cwtchbunny said:


> I am older and wiser and could not imagine hurting my second husband in that way


But you could given the correct circumstances, this has been proven. Are you now capable of walking away from an unfulfilled relationship without blowing it up, and if so, what made this change?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Kermitty said:


> You misunderstood. When I wrote I would put in the effort to make things work, that meant I was putting an end to the affair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just linguistics, butto me, what you write now translates to: "I'll stop my current affair, but I won't change my personality or attitude towards infidelity, so I reserve the right to future affairs" - doesn't it?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

larry.gray said:


> No woman deserves to be raped.
> 
> But a shapely woman dressed in a short skirt walking through a bad neighborhood is being an idiot.


That's the point, Larry. He wasn't ACTUALLY saying a woman deserves to be raped...no matter how she's dressed. He was using that as an example. Blame the one who was raped, rather than the rapist... likened to blaming the BS rather than the one who betrayed: the WS.


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## sarcasmo (Feb 1, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I think what plan 9 is saying is no BS is ever blindsided by their WS.


I don't buy that at all. I didn't see this coming. Did I see divorce coming? Sure, but I never imagined the person I pledged my life to would succumb to such a cowardly, selfish, and hurtful decision to cheat. Never saw that coming. Maybe it's my fault for being so trusting.


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## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

sarcasmo said:


> Maybe it's my fault for being so trusting.


I couldn't fault you sarcasmo for trusting your spouse - nor would I for anyone pre-Dday.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

sarcasmo said:


> I don't buy that at all. I didn't see this coming. Did I see divorce coming? Sure, but I never imagined the person I pledged my life to would succumb to such a cowardly, selfish, and hurtful decision to cheat. Never saw that coming. Maybe it's my fault for being so trusting.


It's a weak decision. They see it as a power move. They figure you will never figure out, and even if you do, you would never leave.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

SomedayDig said:


> I couldn't fault you sarcasmo for trusting your spouse - nor would I for anyone pre-Dday.


I can't either and?would question anyone that had never been betrayed by their spouse, why did they even get married in the first place if they had such lack of trust in the spouse and concern for their character? Isn't that what marriage is supposed to be about. Trust, concern, and intimacy shared with another and reserved for that person alone (a special closeness and bond).


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just linguistics, butto me, what you write now translates to: "I'll stop my current affair, but I won't change my personality or attitude towards infidelity, so I reserve the right to future affairs" - doesn't it?


No.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

sarcasmo said:


> Maybe it's my fault for being so trusting.


Yes, it is your fault. And the rest of us that have been betrayed, there has to be a reason and our fault as to why we were cheated on. There just HAS to be!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

This is a psychology question not much of a sex question.

Did you know well ahead of time that you were going to give yourself to the other man?

If yes, what were your thoughts the last faithful hour until about 1 minute into coitus?

Rough timeline for each of the listed of events from faithful to meeting to inappropriate communication to taking it all the way. IE 1 week from meeting to say sexting and 2 more weeks to physical.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

In modern days, we see marriage as conditional because we have the option of divorce.

What the conditions for breaking the marriage bonds are obviously vary from person to person. Even given this variation, they all fall within a certain identifiable set, which is why we all feel like we've 'heard it all before.'

I have two problems with the whole 'there are understandable reasons for cheating even though I don't condone it and it shouldn't be the choice' argument:

- People routinely rewrite marital history to justify what was clearly a thoughtless, selfish choice to cheat.

- When people get married, they usually don't check with one another to see if their conditions for breaking the marriage bonds are the same. So, you get one person who thinks that having sex only 2x/month is a reason for cheating, while his/her partner is clueless that that would trigger a rupture.

I think that using these conditions when they are not clearly stated and used after the fact of cheating is itself an act of cheating, since it post-rationalizes the behavior.

The marriage bond is a societal attempt to actually clear the waters in this regard, not muddy them. It's supposed to make the ground rules obvious, not say that 'well, yes, we know that people are supposed to be faithful, but how much video-gaming can one put up with?' In other words, it's supposed to make the conditions for breaking up the marriage as clear as possible and to put both spouses as much on the same page as possible.

It's of course much more complicated and much messier than this, but to me so much of this is a matter of one partner accepting these basic conditions of a marriage and then saying 'sorry, I now don't think I want to accept them' in order to allow him/herself to cheat.

We all understand the extreme conditions that can cause breaking the bonds without resorting to divorce - leg-shackling, for example.

I have a brother who has a knack for saying things clearly and concisely. When we were talking about the marital problems of a family member, he said, 'What about for better or worse doesn't that guy understand?'


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## Numbersixxx (Oct 10, 2012)

sarcasmo said:


> I don't buy that at all. I didn't see this coming. Did I see divorce coming? Sure, but I never imagined the person I pledged my life to would succumb to such a cowardly, selfish, and hurtful decision to cheat. Never saw that coming. Maybe it's my fault for being so trusting.


Blindly trusting *anybody* is pretty stupid.


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Numbersixxx said:


> Blindly trusting *anybody* is pretty stupid.


And some of us had to learn that the hard way.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> And some of us had to learn that the hard way.


Actually, why is that? I mean, we see pretty bad stuff done by a lot of people every day. We should have learnt this a long time ago.

What makes a person blindly %100 trust their spouse? Is it an escape mechanism so you won't have to dwell on what may happen if you find out the truth? Or are we just needy in that we need someone else to seem like a constant beacon of innocence?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Actually, why is that? I mean, we see pretty bad stuff done by a lot of people every day. We should have learnt this a long time ago.
> 
> What makes a person blindly %100 trust their spouse? Is it an escape mechanism so you won't have to dwell on what may happen if you find out the truth? Or are we just needy in that we need someone else to seem like a constant beacon of innocence?


It could also be that we trust ourselves, so we think there are others out there with the same values and ability to keep boundaries clear...


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Shadow_Nirvana said:


> Actually, why is that? I mean, we see pretty bad stuff done by a lot of people every day. We should have learnt this a long time ago.
> 
> What makes a person blindly %100 trust their spouse?


For me it was the illusion that as long as I was as loving and affectionate as I could possibly be, I didn't want to think I had the kind of wife that would cheat simply because she wanted the excitement of fu****g a new face once in a while.

But we know now after some chiming in here that we caused our spouses to cheat. Its our fault.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

dusty4 said:


> But we know now after some chiming in here that we caused our spouses to cheat. Its our fault.


Us trusting bastards!!


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

I feel like I should be paraphrasing GySgt Hartmann from Full Metal Jacket: "If it weren't for trusting bastards like us there would be no cheating in the world!"


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

russell28 said:


> It could also be that we trust ourselves, so we think there are others out there with the same values and ability to keep boundaries clear...



Yes, there must be others out there who a trustworthy and will not intentionally take advantage of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dusty4 (May 8, 2013)

Squeakr said:


> I feel like I should be paraphrasing GySgt Hartmann from Full Metal Jacket: "If it weren't for trusting bastards like us there would be no cheating in the world!"












Holy Jesus, what is that? What the #$%& is that? What is that Private Pyle???

Sir a cheating wife and its all my fault!!! But looks more like a jelly donut......sir


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by x598
> but my spouse wants R...... why would a cheater want to R when the person they cheated on was so horrible in the first place. rings hollow to me.
> 
> ...


sure. what is a cornered and proven LIAR going to say? you think she's going to say anything other than what serves her? when that asll she was doing before? i'm just suposed to start trusting her now (again)? :rofl:


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