# Are we growing apart?



## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hi, I'm new here and seeking some general marriage/relationship advice.

Sorry for such a long post and I will post cliff notes on the bottom.

Little background: Married for almost 15 years/together for 20 with children. Overall our marriage has been great and I have to say I'm a very lucky/happy man. I love my wife dearly and I feel the same coming from her. We are best friends and spend a LOT of time together and really enjoy it.We are high school sweethearts and had a child very early (18/19). My wife and I were both not very good in school but initially we figured that we would have to jeopardize a lot to raise our child/children and she would be the home maker and I would be the provider.

As we had more kids, her job at home grew and obviously expenses grew as well, but we have really been doing great overall. We were able to purchase a house about 5 years back and paid off our debt and are in a pretty good financial situation (based on the past). But still no where near where we should be (no emergency fund, low monthly savings and kids are slowly approaching age of college).

From household standpoint my wife has really stepped up from the get go. I know raising 4 kids is the hardest job out there, and she has done fantastic work. House is always clean, food on the table and I have to say she has been the best stay at home mom I can think of (and do my best to help out when I get home). Now that the kids are older her household responsibilities have minimized. Past 10 or so years i have been talking to her about career and future as I knew time would come when she would have to work. 

Unfortunately my wife upbringing was extremely rough and family never cared to motivate their kids/keep them busy or stress importance of education etc. 

My family offered her to pay for Community college/higher education etc but she was either too busy (hard to blame her) or just had no interest/didn't know what to do (which if normal as well IMO).

Lately (6months - year) I've been really putting much more pressure on her to get something going (anything), just want to see her be proactive. She has somewhat low self esteem and doesn't believe she can be successful in professional world, which is understandable. She says things like "I will just get a minimum wage job" and it just pisses me off that she sets her standards so low. Also minimum wage job would do NOTHING for us (especially in the long run), it's kind of her jerk reaction. I'm not really looking for instant help, but education/steps towards career.....I know this woman can do great in the corp workforce. Especially since I've worked with SO many useless/worthless people over the year hehe.

She has been putting in 5-10 hour weeks (part time) but that hardly puts a dent into our family expenses and she can put in more, but refuses to learn on the job (opportunity has always been there, its my moms business). But every little bit helps and I do appreciate it. She has/had the opportunity to learn things within my moms business (where she works) but just gives up/not interest/doesn't want to do it. She also had opportunity with other family members and even enjoys the work they do.....but again, 0 steps taken.

I've involved her into finances over the years and she knows very well what it takes to sustain/maintain our family. I also wanted her to really be able to manage spreadsheets/do bills and be more involved.....but she really showed no interest in it (I know many men would love that hehe). I just don't want her to end up like her family member that lost their loved one (death) and had NO clue what to do/where anything is or how to manage finances (I'm REALLY scared of that). She would be LOST if I died today.

When it comes to spending money my wife has really been incredible. She is low maintenance, doesn't do shopping sprees and we only purchase what we can afford etc. So no complaints there.

On my end, I never went to college (trade school) and an on my 3rd career. Able to support/provide for my family entire time. I do need to get my but to college and even get cert in my profession but that's a whole another subject.

Anyways, issue at hand is really her lack of ambition to get her career going and just negligence of our financial future.

Finances have been on my shoulders for so long and I just feel very...vulnerable and overwhelmed? Feel like the second I lose my job we are in DEEP financial trouble. And I just don't feel that she has high level of care on this subject,almost seems like she doesn't seem to care what happens? 

She says she will go to college and take steps but I just haven't seen any action. She takes a step or too, but give up.

From a financial perspective, I just want some financial back up/stability and also be able to have more money for travel, kids education and especially our retirement. Based on my financial planning I just cannot do it all myself. We are in our 30s and there is still plenty of time.

She also gets VERY defensive when the subject comes up and it's very difficult to talk to her about it (which sets of red flags for me).

It almost feels like my life ambitions/goals are just on a completely different page than her at this point in our life?

To add to above, my wife has been dealing with a lot of health problems (LONG LONG list) and I know this makes things VERY difficult on her. But last year I also have been diagnosed with chronic disease which has potential to cripple me from career perspective. That can happen next year or never, I don't know. But again I feel that our family will fall apart financially if it does happen.

I just don't think my wife can ever even come close to be able to sustain this family financially if I can no longer work. This worries me a LOT. 

And when it comes to her health, she really hasn't taken her health seriously either. She never really lost the weight after pregnancies. Even though she is dealing with a lot of pain, she hasn't really taken steps to exercise or eat healthy and lose the weight to "possibly" help her health issues. She tried hard, but it only lasts few weeks or month or so......and back to normal. She is not extremely overweight and I love her body as it is but I just want her to take her health seriously and really work harder to do what she can to improve her health.

Longer this goes on, the more I think that perhaps we are just drifting apart. We are just different people with different outlook/goals in life. 

It's getting to a point where I'm reconsidering my marriage. I love her and want to spend rest of my life with her but her carelessness when it comes to health and career seem to be on the extreme end. This will clearly have a deep impact on our future/life in the long run.

I'm just wondering if perhaps this is one of those 80/20 things. Am I simply chasing the 20 percent I can't have and will end up losing the 80% that's amazing in the end?

I have 0 desire or intentions to look for any other significant other, but I'm questioning myself/our future.

I also kind of feel somewhat used? Taken advantage of perhaps? It seems like she is just completely relying on me financially and it's a bit extreme.

Yesterday she sent me an email telling me that she was hanging out with her friend (usually she dedicated 2 weekdays to her family members as well)....which is great and all, but again 0 effort into physical activity/health or career and I feel that should probably take the priority (especially since I'm at work busting my ass to provide for family).

Cliff notes:
-Wife has lack of ambition/career goals.
-Wife has health problems but puts in little effort to improve her eating habits and physical activity.
- I'm questioning our financial future and stability. Also overwhelmed with pressure on me to provide for family.

Thanks in advance to everyone for any help/advice you can provide. I really appreciate it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Your wife is content to not be financially responsible for your family. She's not interested in being a provider. This is something YOU want her to do and the thing is, you can't reason her into wanting what you want. 

And don't underestimate her ability to jump in if something happened to you. Under pressure, people DO step up. You do it all now so she doesn't see the need to bother.

As far as her career goals... When did she tell you in your marriage/relationship that she wanted that? What did she say interested her or what was it she wanted to pursue? It's one thing to gently push for something she's talked about and wanted for herself, it's another to push for your own agenda.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> Your wife is content to not be financially responsible for your family. She's not interested in being a provider. This is something YOU want her to do and the thing is, you can't reason her into wanting what you want.


I agree. Is the the case of "you can't change people"and I simply accept it and make my decision based on that?

I don't believe in people changing but I do have hope that she might/will. I do want this marriage to work out and want to be her partner for life. 



A Bit Much said:


> And don't underestimate her ability to jump in if something happened to you. Under pressure, people DO step up. You do it all now so she doesn't see the need to bother.


correct but there is also the health thing, it almost seems (at times) like she is step away from being disabled. 



A Bit Much said:


> As far as her career goals... When did she tell you in your marriage/relationship that she wanted that? What did she say interested her or what was it she wanted to pursue? It's one thing to gently push for something she's talked about and wanted for herself, it's another to push for your own agenda.


We both her 0 career goals from the get go. I simply had to become a provider/had no choice so naturally it was easy for me.

She has 0 interests really, some sparks here and there but again doesn't really go after it much.....

I do have to say that I have been pushing her a lot as of late. But I can't say it's my agenda, it's really what this family requires and what our marriage will require as well.

I don't want to use a word lazy, cause she is not (heck I'm more lazy than her) but I guess a more proper word would be negligent?

I just don't know if maybe I'm just blindsided a bit or if I should take any extreme action.

I simply want what's best for our family and future.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

DoF said:


> I agree. Is the the case of "you can't change people"and I simply accept it and make my decision based on that?
> 
> I don't believe in people changing but I do have hope that she might/will. I do want this marriage to work out and want to be her partner for life.
> 
> ...


Does she understand that you see her lack of career and education pursuits as negligence? I don't think you've conveyed that to her as you have here. She may be looking at it as you nagging her, but nothing more. She isn't as concerned about your family's financial future as you are.

Here's a question for you... what would you do if something happened to HER? If she dies, it will still fall on you to secure the family correct? With the scenario reversed, she may be relying on your insurance to carry her for a while. 

I get you want help, but I'm not married to you. She has to get it. She has to understand your fears and you both need to talk it through on how best to proceed. Her part time job isn't enough for you and she needs to know that. If she chooses NOT to take action to help more in this area, then you have some choices to make.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> Does she understand that you see her lack of career and education pursuits as negligence? I don't think you've conveyed that to her as you have here. She may be looking at it as you nagging her, but nothing more. She isn't as concerned about your family's financial future as you are.


Yes, I have. I already know she is not as concerned about our families financial future based on her actions.



A Bit Much said:


> Here's a question for you... what would you do if something happened to HER? If she dies, it will still fall on you to secure the family correct? With the scenario reversed, she may be relying on your insurance to carry her for a while.


Yes it would. And you are correct on 2nd part as well, we have life insurance.....but that won't keep her afloat for more than a year or 2....



A Bit Much said:


> I get you want help, but I'm not married to you. She has to get it. She has to understand your fears and you both need to talk it through on how best to proceed. Her part time job isn't enough for you and she needs to know that. If she chooses NOT to take action to help more in this area, then you have some choices to make.


We have MANY times. And she always responds/says the right things. She will go to college/think of something etc but slowly slips back into her own ways.

Part time job/not enough has been communicated. I even told her if she just learns my moms skills she can have her business....no interest.

"I have some choices to make" is where I'm at now. It's been 10+ years and nothing is really happening.

More time she waists the more it pisses me off. 

Negligence on her health and effects it has on her is a HUGE concern as well.

Am I being too extreme? Asking for too much here? I'm kind of second guessing myself here.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

DoF said:


> Yes, I have. I already know she is not as concerned about our families financial future based on her actions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Extreme? No. Asking for too much? Yes, from her you are. 

I feel for you. This is not an easy spot to be in. On the one hand you want your marriage and generally are happy with her, but on the other, you have genuine fears for your financial future that she can help with and won't. Her neglecting her health speaks volumes too. I hate to keep tossing it around, but she may be going through her own thing. She may be depressed. The kids will grow up and out, then what? That's not an easy thing to deal with as a Mom. Especially one so hands on and involved as she is with your kids. She's giving and giving to them and to you emotionally and she has nothing left for herself at the end of the day. Not even enough to care for her own health.

Have you thought about going to counseling together? I think at this point it may be something to try. You need someone to help you both get on the same page.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> Extreme? No. Asking for too much? Yes, from her you are.


I guess one can say that.



A Bit Much said:


> I feel for you. This is not an easy spot to be in. On the one hand you want your marriage and generally are happy with her, but on the other, you have genuine fears for your financial future that she can help with and won't. Her neglecting her health speaks volumes too.


Yep, it's a huge concern and reason for my post/thread.



A Bit Much said:


> I hate to keep tossing it around, but she may be going through her own thing. She may be depressed.


She gets depressed, there is no question about that. But again, not willing to be physically active or eating better plays a HUGE part in that IMO.

So I'm sure some of it is self inflicted pain and some is just health/mental state etc.



A Bit Much said:


> The kids will grow up and out, then what? That's not an easy thing to deal with as a Mom. Especially one so hands on and involved as she is with your kids. She's giving and giving to them and to you emotionally and she has nothing left for herself at the end of the day. Not even enough to care for her own health.


Well, that's not true (to an extent). She has plenty of time for herself. All the kids are out of the house by 8:30 and 3-4 times a week she has 5-6 hours to herself.

Mind you, plenty of things fill her day but she CAN wake up earlier and jump on the treadmill. She can eat better/more consistently and invest into her health. She also has plenty of time for other things.

I get home at 4:30 each and every day and can relieve her so she can do whatever she wants. But we do enjoy being together/with family during/after dinner. 



A Bit Much said:


> Have you thought about going to counseling together? I think at this point it may be something to try. You need someone to help you both get on the same page.


We haven't. We can't really afford it.

We also have been communicating about all of this and know what the issues are. She agrees with me most of the time but again, with words.....not actions.

It almost seems like she is just telling me what I want to hear just so I leave her alone on these 2 subjects......


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I think you know your wife well enough to know when she wants to do something, she will and when she just doesn't. The hemming and hawing can go on indefinitely if she doesn't see you doing anything else other than bringing it up. You talk to her, she tells you what you want to hear, and then you go silent. Then weeks go by and you do the same thing.

Sometimes people need their tree shaken to the point they GET IT. If you told her you were considering separating over these issues, I wonder if that would wake her up? I mean essentially it is what you're saying here... you realize you cannot deal with things like this for another 10 years. That means some changes need to be made, and it's YOU that have to make them.

She needs to know things as is are no longer acceptable to you and if you give her a time frame maybe she will get the fire under her to take some action.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

That's correct.

I haven't really pushed it to a point where I bring up separation/divorce.

I'm also not sure if such action would be any good for our family and especially children.

I also don't want to threaten her. I mean, how do I communicate to her without actually saying "if you don't start taking steps I'm leaving"? 

So far it's mostly been hints.

Also wondering what others think/other point of views.

I really appreciate your input here A Bit Much, keep it coming!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

DoF said:


> That's correct.
> 
> I haven't really pushed it to a point where I bring up separation/divorce.
> 
> ...


It's not a threat if you really feel like doing it. And separation doesn't mean divorce. What is happening is you are losing your attraction to her based on these things... that's a huge thing. People don't take hints. Direct and honest communication is best, even if you know it will be difficult and/or painful for the other person. You have a history together. You're married. You should be able to trust her with your true feelings and would hopefully want the same from her.

Stop beating around the bush and give it to her straight.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> It's not a threat if you really feel like doing it. And separation doesn't mean divorce. What is happening is you are losing your attraction to her based on these things... that's a huge thing. People don't take hints. Direct and honest communication is best, even if you know it will be difficult and/or painful for the other person. You have a history together. You're married. You should be able to trust her with your true feelings and would hopefully want the same from her.
> 
> Stop beating around the bush and give it to her straight.


Yep

I can't say I'm losing my attraction to her though. Heck I feel like my attraction is at the highest level at this point.

Her health/career issues really haven't effected that end (thank god).


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

DoF said:


> Yep
> 
> *I can't say I'm losing my attraction to her though. Heck I feel like my attraction is at the highest level at this point.*
> 
> Her health/career issues really haven't effected that end (thank god).



Well that's good to hear. She still has the magic 

It's good that you are trying to find solutions instead of just throwing up your hands and saying screw it all. I think once you get it out there in a frank and open discussion you'll feel better and as a bonus, she'll respect you even more. Women like men that just tell it like it is without fear of our reaction. Trust me. I'm a girl, I know. lol


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> Well that's good to hear. She still has the magic


Hey hey hey, I hope that I do too (well from what she says I do). But she did like me when I was younger more....but in general our sex life is great (I would rate it at 10). Can't really ask for more/better.





A Bit Much said:


> It's good that you are trying to find solutions instead of just throwing up your hands and saying screw it all. I think once you get it out there in a frank and open discussion you'll feel better and as a bonus, she'll respect you even more. Women like men that just tell it like it is without fear of our reaction. Trust me. I'm a girl, I know. lol


Ohh I know but I don't like to be forceful/treat her that way. I like open ended discussion vs forcing her. 

I will admit that I might come off that way and when it comes to topics she doesn't enjoy, she doesn't like it at all.

But I know how ladies are, at times you like it and at times you hate it......it's hard to figure out when for us hehe


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

DoF said:


> But I know how ladies are, at times you like it and at times you hate it......it's hard to figure out when for us hehe


Oh it never has to be forceful. No need to have anger or hostility attached... just a conversation that doesn't downplay how you're feeling. 

Lots of I statements. Ask her for what you want, directly. Just like you would if you were ordering a steak. Don't be afraid to tell her what you fear, and what you NEED in order to feel more secure. You are asking for her help. 

I hope you two can find a common ground here where you both are satisfied. Happiness shouldn't come at the expense of your spouse. That's just selfish.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

I approached it directly many times. I just never really put it all on the line.

Perhaps that will get her in gear.....just feels pathetic to me to go to such lengths but it seems like what has to be done at this point.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

DoF said:


> I approached it directly many times. I just never really put it all on the line.
> 
> Perhaps that will get her in gear.....just feels pathetic to me to go to such lengths but it seems like what has to be done at this point.


If it's that important to you, then you do what you need to do. If not, let it be.

We have to get to a place where we choose our battles. If this is your hill to die on, then you say what you need to say/do what you need to do to get that across to her. If it's NOT? Then drop it and accept she is who she is.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

A Bit Much said:


> If it's that important to you, then you do what you need to do. If not, let it be.
> 
> We have to get to a place where we choose our battles. If this is your hill to die on, then you say what you need to say/do what you need to do to get that across to her. If it's NOT? Then drop it and accept she is who she is.


That's where I'm stuck.

I'm thinking it might be better to fight this battle when kids are grown up....

But it's just been so long.

Her health is only getting worse and longer she waits, harder it will be.

I've exhausted everything I can to explain all of this to her through the years.....

Now that I think about it, health thing is probably more important than career. 

We both started working out etc in January and she was extremely disappointed in herself cause she lost 5 lbs, I told her 5lbs is amazing and it should drive her to work harder/do more. But it seems like it totally brought her down.....

I just can't seem to get her motivated in these 2 areas. To an extent I feel like a failure.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Her lack of motivation is NOT a reflection on YOU. It's her. She is responsible for her own action or inaction, and health for that matter (unless she's mentally ill and incapable of caring for herself). I know it tears you up watching her go this route, when the solution to her unhappiness is right there if she would do something. That's the problem. She's not ready to do anything about her unhappiness. You can't fix that for her. The more you try, the more you'll feel like you're spinning your wheels in the mud. 

You've taken the lead here. That's great! It doesn't mean that she as an individual has to follow your lead. It would be nice, but she's not ready for whatever reason. How patient are you? This all requires patience... and you may not ever get the results you are looking for. She's an adult and can decide what she wants and what she doesn't want.

Her getting healthy should be a priority. She should go see a doctor and get on some kind of health regimen to manage whatever is going on with her.. and I would impress that upon her the most. You have kids. They want their Mom around.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Thanks again

Anyone else? Looking for wide variety of perspectives.


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## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

My perspective may be skewed by my experience, so take the best and leave the rest. If she is clinically depressed, she will have no ambition or motivation. She could be able to take care of things at home, but feel emotionally and mentally drained just by doing that. 

Now if she isn't depressed, how about being a nanny/babysitter, going for a certificate program instead of making a 2-4 year commitment, taking in a foster child (which would involve you as well, but just a suggestion.) Even hosting a parents night out childcare once a week could bring in a lot. (Watch kids overnight while parents party sort of thing.) 

Did she have ambition when you met? Is she anxious at all? 

As for college funds, my two teens are going to college on scholorships, loans and work study and they haven't died yet. 

If she never changes, think about what is the worst that could happen. If you can't accept that, you may want to separate. 

Just my opinion, of course.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

scatty said:


> My perspective may be skewed by my experience, so take the best and leave the rest. If she is clinically depressed, she will have no ambition or motivation.


I don't think that's the case.



scatty said:


> She could be able to take care of things at home, but feel emotionally and mentally drained just by doing that.


Sure, it's not easy, but again they are not babies anymore. Youngest is 8.

Besides, I feel emotionally and mentally drained at times too.....I survive.



scatty said:


> Now if she isn't depressed, how about being a nanny/babysitter, going for a certificate program instead of making a 2-4 year commitment, taking in a foster child (which would involve you as well, but just a suggestion.) Even hosting a parents night out childcare once a week could bring in a lot. (Watch kids overnight while parents party sort of thing.)


Foster care is a big commitment and we don't have room. We also already have enough kids on our shoulders hehe.

She tried babysitting etc but nothing worked out.



scatty said:


> Did she have ambition when you met? Is she anxious at all?


She is anxious I guess (at times). 

No, she never had drive or ambition unless we are talking motherhood/family. Her drive there and taking care of family is great.



scatty said:


> As for college funds, my two teens are going to college on scholorships, loans and work study and they haven't died yet.


Correct, I don't feel obligated to pay for my kids college but I would like to have means to contribute and give them options (assuming they are responsible etc)



scatty said:


> If she never changes, think about what is the worst that could happen. If you can't accept that, you may want to separate.
> 
> Just my opinion, of course.


Thanks

The worst that can happen?
- lack of options in the future (travel, vacations etc)
- no means to retire
- I lose job and things go downhill FAST
- lack of financial stability
- again, way too much pressure on me to provide

I always make sure she knows how much I value the work she has done/is doing with kids. IMO stay at home parent is one of the hardest jobs (when done right). But she doesn't really appreciate the work I put in around the house and at work (I do EVERYTHING around the house, big DIYer). Everything seems to be way beneath anything she does.

I just really can't stand her entire attitude when it comes to importance on providing financially. It's not even on her radar. Just complete severe negligence (I feel).


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Not to overstate the obvious, but from your posts it is very clear that your wife has no interest in obtaining a career. She is willing to get a PT job, but she just doesn't want financially-sustaining job.

There are tons and tons of women- and men- who are totally OK with this kind of set-up. Many SAHMs never go into the workforce. There is even an "Emotional Need" that reflects this ("Financial Support".) Working a paid job is not for everyone. 

Now, just because something is OK for anyone else doesn't mean it's OK for YOU; just sayin', she probably never really considered anything besides helping out a bit and mostly being a very competent home-maker. Your wife's make and model is one of a home-maker, not a career-woman.

The main thing here, it seems, is that you want your wife to do something she doesn't want to do. You want her to be someone she isn't. 

Does she know your exact concerns? Does she share them at all, or does she feel that will deal with that situation when/if it anything happens to you?

You have an enormous amount to lose if you start talking separation and divorce. You're young and can rebuild, but I think you should very seriously consider not only post-divorce finances in your situation but also post-divorce family relations. Not sure how well your children would be with you were to you have your wife stay home all their lives then boot her out once she was no longer 'useful' to you. I think there is a very significant chance they would harbor some serious resentment, as it seems overall you've been happy in the marriage.

I'm sorry to say this, but your best bet is to probably accept that she is not going to be a substantial financial contributor. Brainstorm together about ways that the two of you can improve your income; and by the two of you, I mean the way that YOU can increase your income and she can support or mildly enhance your efforts. This might mean you taking a traveling job for a while, if she is OK with it (although at this stage I would keep that as an absolute last option). It might mean her agreeing to work a PT or very low-stress job with the money earmarked specifically for IRAs. It might just mean that you chase a better job/get additional training.

Your finances are likely to improve once you're Empty Nesters, with no change at all. I agree it would be ideal if you can help your kids with their education, but this isn't an Ideal World. It is what it is.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

If she's not interested in going back to school for a career, I think you shouldn't push for that. School is a commitment and it's not for everyone.

I do think it's not unreasonable for your wife to get a part-time job.

Here's what I would do in your case. Lay out your finances for her, and lay out the projections for what you'll have to retire on if you continue at the present rate. Then, figure out how her earning an additional 10k, 20k, or 30k per year would affect that. How much more could you save and invest, and how would that affect your retirement ages and nest egg? What are your retirement goals? Will this extra money help you reach them?

Lay out the whole picture for her at once, and then just talk. Maybe this is really about having entirely different goals for this part of your life?


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

RoseAglow said:


> Not to overstate the obvious, but from your posts it is very clear that your wife has no interest in obtaining a career. She is willing to get a PT job, but she just doesn't want financially-sustaining job.
> 
> There are tons and tons of women- and men- who are totally OK with this kind of set-up. Many SAHMs never go into the workforce. There is even an "Emotional Need" that reflects this ("Financial Support".) Working a paid job is not for everyone.
> 
> Now, just because something is OK for anyone else doesn't mean it's OK for YOU; just sayin', she probably never really considered anything besides helping out a bit and mostly being a very competent home-maker. Your wife's make and model is one of a home-maker, not a career-woman.


That's all true



RoseAglow said:


> The main thing here, it seems, is that you want your wife to do something she doesn't want to do. You want her to be someone she isn't.
> 
> Does she know your exact concerns? Does she share them at all, or does she feel that will deal with that situation when/if it anything happens to you?


I've expressed it to her many times and did again last night.



RoseAglow said:


> You have an enormous amount to lose if you start talking separation and divorce. You're young and can rebuild, but I think you should very seriously consider not only post-divorce finances in your situation but also post-divorce family relations. Not sure how well your children would be with you were to you have your wife stay home all their lives then boot her out once she was no longer 'useful' to you. I think there is a very significant chance they would harbor some serious resentment, as it seems overall you've been happy in the marriage.
> 
> I'm sorry to say this, but your best bet is to probably accept that she is not going to be a substantial financial contributor. Brainstorm together about ways that the two of you can improve your income; and by the two of you, I mean the way that YOU can increase your income and she can support or mildly enhance your efforts. This might mean you taking a traveling job for a while, if she is OK with it (although at this stage I would keep that as an absolute last option). It might mean her agreeing to work a PT or very low-stress job with the money earmarked specifically for IRAs. It might just mean that you chase a better job/get additional training.
> 
> Your finances are likely to improve once you're Empty Nesters, with no change at all. I agree it would be ideal if you can help your kids with their education, but this isn't an Ideal World. It is what it is.


Correct


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

northernlights said:


> If she's not interested in going back to school for a career, I think you shouldn't push for that. School is a commitment and it's not for everyone.


Correct, I'm well aware of that. We are BOTH like that actually. 



northernlights said:


> I do think it's not unreasonable for your wife to get a part-time job.


She already has one and is looking for more hours. But again, we are talking minimum wage/not much future potential etc.

I'm trying to think long term vs immediate fix. 



northernlights said:


> Here's what I would do in your case. Lay out your finances for her, and lay out the projections for what you'll have to retire on if you continue at the present rate. Then, figure out how her earning an additional 10k, 20k, or 30k per year would affect that. How much more could you save and invest, and how would that affect your retirement ages and nest egg? What are your retirement goals? Will this extra money help you reach them?
> 
> Lay out the whole picture for her at once, and then just talk. Maybe this is really about having entirely different goals for this part of your life?


I already did. She knows what it takes to support this family financially. It's a pretty big amount and perhaps it's overwhelming......I know it would be to me if I was in her shoes.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

We spoke last night about # of issues and I thought it went well. She didn't get defensive and agreed with my concerns and said she would do her best to fix them.

I told her that I can't put any dates on anything, I just don't know. But I told her that Health is a HUGE concern to me and the future of this family. She needs to deal with it ASAP. She agreed.

Same for career.

I told her that I'm not talking to her about these 2 issues anymore/ever again. And if she needs support/help I'm here to help but I'm not initiating anything.

There is also some other minor issues we need to work out but it's all just polishing up mostly.

I really need her to step up and start motivating me as well. I need to be pushed too and just want her to have ambitions/drive to do better and drive me as well.

Again, even though I've been extremely successful in my career(s).....I do need education etc.

I guess to an extent we BOTH have to drive ourselves, I just feel like I'm the only one doing it so far.....

I know she has it in her, the problem is, her childhood/parents never really laid out foundation to drive/ambition etc so she has very little belief in doing these things herself.

To think what she went through during her childhood and the woman/mother she has become is simply incredible. If there is one person in this world that can do it, it's her. 

I think she will do just fine.....I'm pretty optimistic.

She knows that I need to see progress and if she neglects her health/career it will put some huge walls in front of our relationship. Walls that we might not be able to overcome.

I just want my children/grandchildren to have her be part of their life.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Update to my situation:

Wife has been amazing, she stepped up to the plate and some.

Started College this week, and will be becoming a teacher. 

Even though I told her no immediate job change is necessary, she proceeded anyways and found a job with WAY more hours at a daycare place (assistant teacher) which she loves/enjoys so far).

She has also been making progress on her health as well, lost good 10+ lbs already and working hard on it (from what I see).

it almost brings me to tears when I think about how amazing of a woman my wife is......based on where she came from/how she was raised. 

I'm so proud of her.

On top of it, her actions are now motivating me to get education as well and drive me to become a person as well.

I guess I can answer my own question at this point. We are not growing apart, quite the opposite actually. It seems like it's only getting better and better.

We are at the prime of our relationship 18 years+ in. Amazing.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

That's a terrific update!!!


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Ok,

Here's a totally different perspective for you to consider.

Hormones and hormone balance are so very critical to her life and health. As people age, their hormones tend to drift into an unbalanced state. Men, pot belly, man boobs, lethargic state of mind, forgetfulness...

Similar with women. Dr. Ercole Cavalieri said estrogens are the "angels of life and angels of death". Too much or too little estrogen can make a HUGE difference in her well being and health. Too much, she's gonna be bloated, over sensitive and insomniatic. Can create deficiencies in various vitamins. Too little - mentally lethargic, depressed, wounds taking longer to heal. 

High, low or normal estrogen levels without enough progesterone balance can be a major issue to her health. She could be estrogen dominant, and low progesterone can bring on lots of symptoms:

Allergies, breast cancers, decreased sex drive, depression, anxiety, dry eyes, fat gain - hips, thighs, stomach, foggy thinking, hair loss, headaches, irregular mental periods, magnesium deficiency (80% of America probably is anyway). PMS, sluggish metabolism, fibroids... 

Your wife could be premenopausal and balancing hormones during these years can be a challenge. Could be as simple as diet, exercise and a bit of progesterone cream. 

I am no doctor. 

1) My advice to to find a doctor who actually understands these things. If he takes a full hormonal blood test and says she's in the normal range from the blood tests printed range, find another doctor. These ranges are being widened by Obamacare so fewer people will be treated. Contact www.lef dot org. They will provide you a list of recommended blood levels based on scientific research. They have tons of research on health online for free.

Most doctors only get a couple hours training in hormones in medical school and are therefore ignorant. 

2) get the book "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Premenopause". Balancing Your Hormones and Your Life from 30 to 50. Authors - Drs John R Lee, Jesse Hanley

Good luck


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Ok,
> 
> Here's a totally different perspective for you to consider.
> 
> ...


Thanks

She has premenapause! And is dealing with it quite well, but it does get hard at times....on top of SO many other things she deals with then it comes to health/pain.

Sometimes I wonder if this woman i have is even human. I would've probably took myself out 100x over and over if I was to walk in her shoes......

:scratchhead:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Awesome. Now's the time to find a really special gift for her - a tree she's always wanted, or a gift card for her favorite store, or taking her on a day trip...show your appreciation.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> Awesome. Now's the time to find a really special gift for her - a tree she's always wanted, or a gift card for her favorite store, or taking her on a day trip...show your appreciation.


Right now, my primary is simply communicating how proud I am of her. 

Things are tight financially, so as much as I would like to get her something really nice.....it's not that easy.

I did get her flowers yesterday.....just because (I don't get them for "occasions" usually....ok fine, sometimes....)......I just like to get them randomly.

Day trip, that's been in the plan and something she likes the most (no gift can replace that).

We are hitting up our favorite back roads soon!!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We live near a lake and our neighborhood has a little dock onto it. One day my H prepared a picnic basket with food, wine, wine glasses, and near sunset he told me to get in the car, and he drove me the 1/2 mile to that dock, and we just went and sat on that dock and had our little feast and watched the sun set. Cool stuff like that...even unsentimental women like me appreciate that.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

turnera said:


> We live near a lake and our neighborhood has a little dock onto it. One day my H prepared a picnic basket with food, wine, wine glasses, and near sunset he told me to get in the car, and he drove me the 1/2 mile to that dock, and we just went and sat on that dock and had our little feast and watched the sun set. Cool stuff like that...even unsentimental women like me appreciate that.


Thankfully, women like you and my wife know that the best things in our lives are free.....nature/beauty of land.....and loved ones.

This world needs MORE of women like that.

We have noticed that further away from people and civilization we get.....more happier we are. Just give us nature and each other....and we are good to go.

:smthumbup:


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

DoF said:


> Thanks
> 
> She has premenapause! And is dealing with it quite well, but it does get hard at times....on top of SO many other things she deals with then it comes to health/pain.
> 
> ...


Get the book and get smarter on the subject. You'll get your wife back! (And you too on the male side. Same thing). Her other issues might be directly related.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Q tip said:


> Get the book and get smarter on the subject. You'll get your wife back! (And you too on the male side. Same thing). Her other issues might be directly related.


I already have my wife though, no need to get her back.

But more knowledge NEVER hurts!


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