# Need some ideas, success stories



## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

Hello, this is my first time posting on a site like this. I actually created my account a month ago but it has taken me this long to actually post something.

My wife and I have been in a relationship living together for 5 and a half years, married for 1 and a half. We met in college and have always been "that couple" we had the fairy tale wedding and from all outside perspectives are doing very well. We have over the years both struggled with depression and our "spark" has dwindled. I recently got a new job and things are looking up, I started to try to work on myself and have tried to learn to be a better husband and learn how to be in a positive loving marriage and grow with my wife. Unfortunately my wife is still struggling, now worse than ever... and last night had the talk with me that she isn't happy in our marriage.

The tough part for me is that I am happy in our marriage, we have good communication, a beautiful home, good family and friends, we don't have any money or health issues and never have any fights or struggles. The biggest thing missing is the "spark" which I still feel but she doesn't. I think it is due to her own depression, but she thinks it is due to the marriage. 

I have asked her to seek counseling on her own but she refuses, saying she doesn't need counseling. When I suggested that we go to couples counseling she said "I saw my parents go to counseling and then get divorced, I am afraid that the counselor is going to say we should part ways because (me) am so much better and (her) is a lost cause that doesn't deserve you."

This was the first time that I had ever heard her say that she thinks her unhappiness is related to our marriage and it broke my heart. I love her so much and would kiss her and dote upon her all the time if she let me, I have wanted to go to dance classes with her, do new things she is interested in, read books she likes. But for some reason when I give her affection or put effort into the relationship she turns it away because it makes her feel guilty that she is a bad partner or that she is obligated to be in the relationship with me. I think she struggles with entitlement and feels like she shouldn't need to work at having a happy relationship.

I have scheduled an appointment with a therapist but am not sure if she will go with me. I have told her that I am here to listen and will do anything for our relationship. I just don't know what else to do.

I wanted to hear peoples advice and any success stories from a similar scenario, I need some support right now and unfortunately struggle to get it from my family and previously my wife was my main support structure.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

What does she think is wrong with your marriage? That's the one thing you're not saying. I wonder if you're really listening to her.


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

This is a good point, I have been asking her what is wrong and she says that she feels "stuck" and isn't on the right path. I ask her what the right path is or what she would change if possible and she just says "I don't know". She says that she misses the "new love, butterflies feeling" and I think is questioning the institution of marriage.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get an answer of why she thinks she isn't happy in our marriage other than she isn't happy in her life, and unfortunately we are in a society where when we told people we were getting married, over half of them said "don't do it" and we also both come from broken marriages. 

I am trying my best to listen but might need to learn a different method which is why I am trying therapy. I think she has made our marriage into a scapegoat for why she isn't happy.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

What does she do with her time during the day and evenings? Does she work? Go out anywhere? What do you two do together? What did you used to do together, if it was different?


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

She works 8-4 M-F at a job she really doesn't enjoy, but she hasn't enjoyed a job since graduating college, in the winter when she gets home she sometimes goes to the gym but other than that most nights we stay in and watch Netflix or read. In the summer we go for walks and bike rides and sometimes see friends, but she has few friends so we spend a lot of time together. But we always have some sort of adventure each week that is sporadic and random and I think we both enjoy it.

This is the kind of routine we have almost always had. I guess that the percentage of time we stay in has gone up, her dissatisfaction with work has gone up and she often feels like she wastes her time and is "stuck in the rat race", we are also almost never intimate, maybe once a month (used to be almost every day), sometimes not even sharing a kiss in a day.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So she'd rather avoid counseling and being told she's a part of the problem, and live with being "unhappy" in the marriage until it implodes? Makes perfect sense to me... Avoidance is always the best solution. 

All you can do is work on yourself, and try to get her on board with you. At some point, either she'll buy into working on herself and the relationship, or you'll decide it's time to throw in the towel. You could try insisting on MC at that point, as you'd have nothing to lose if she's says no. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

What do you love about this woman? I don't mean that to be rhetorical or sarcastic, it's just that you make her sound like she has kind of a bad and unpleasant attitude about life. Was she always like that?


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

That's just it, she is the best person I know. She is very smart and driven, she is funny and a good listener, she gets along with my family and friends and she challenges me to be a better person. She is the only person in the whole world who I feel like knows me and when we met she was happy and driven with big dreams and big ideas. She still is passionate and excited, it is just decreasing all of the time. I am afraid she is becoming jaded and depressed and hasn't figured out a way to grow, forgive herself for not being perfect and move on. 

When she met, she was the top student with a 4.0 GPA in the Honors College, graduating a year early and captain of the universities downhill ski team with many exciting life experiences. But since graduating she has struggled incredibly to find satisfaction in a job and in day to day life. I think she resents me because I have struggled too but have had better luck and opportunities she often says "I am achieving everything for us and she achieves nothing" I think sometimes I have enabled her to have a bad attitude out of compassion because I wanted to make her feel better when I should have challenged her and held her to the standard she held me to. But I have never once tried to compete with her, in fact I still feel like she is smarter than me and ask for her advice often. 

I just don't know what to do, it feels like the woman who I love so much and has helped me grow is dissapoearing and I don't know what to do about it. And I can't give up on her, it would break my heart so badly I can't imagine it. I have never once thought we wouldn't be together until the end.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

maineguy said:


> She says that she misses the "new love, butterflies feeling" and I think is questioning the institution of marriage.


The butterflies love is unsustainable over the long haul. Love passes through phases over the life of a relationship. Here is a thread I did several years ago. I hope it will be helpful in her understanding where she is in her love. Transitioning of the love cycle is normal.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/3991-five-kinds-love.html

As far as her resistance to counselling, too many couples wait until they are at the abyss before they go and by then it's too late to save the marriage. I would look at it as a more proactive approach to head off a bigger problem that might be building. Good luck.


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

Thank you for that post, I think I may be somewhere between Epithumia and Agape at the moment, trying to find a way to show her I am here without losing her by being overbearing. I want to be in Philio but I think she is in storge and feels like it is a bad thing. This is good insight.


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

So here is a question. How do I love her unconditionally and still try to encourage her to grow and be happy? All while trying to give her space so that I don't smother her?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

maineguy said:


> So here is a question. How do I love her unconditionally and still try to encourage her to grow and be happy?


First off, agape love is not unconditional. It has boundaries. Unconditional love can lead to abuse of its nature by a disconnected spouse. Agape love is used as a stop gap to help you deal with your own loneliness and fears while giving her reassurance that she is loved.

You are correct not to dote on her. Don't ignore her but don't go over the top in trying to win her back in manners that are not of your normal nature. Over correcting in a relationship will likely make her feel controlled or pressured and she will withdraw further.

In your engagements with her be supportive but don't pursue. Hold yourself with all the confidence you can muster when in her presence. Do not bring up the marriage issues unless she does or unless something changes dramatically. Don't over read her actions, positive or negative. If there are things you need to change in yourself to make her happier, work on them on your own. Don't announce them, just quietly work on yourself.

If your sex life is still active, don't underestimate its impact on bonding. IF you want to do something special with her, don't ask permission. Do it and if she says no, roll with it.

Finally, I will bring this up because some one will at some point. Be sure you do your due diligence to see if there is a 3rd party involved. Everyone that comes here with a disconnected spouse swears there is no way, but very often there is. Some will talk about key loggers and VARs. But for now, I would suggest a thorough review of her patterns over the last few months to see if things have changed. Daily routine, sex frequency and quality, change in friends. It is also possible your is, as you suspect, in a depression and needs some counselling and medication.


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## foxguy148 (Jan 25, 2014)

You lost me on the "fairytale" part, that right there rings a huge warning bell for this marriage, you both should know by now life is not a fairy tale and no one and I mean no one can live up to the disney tales you grew up with. 

You need to man up in this relationship and confront and confirm she wants to be in this relationship, if she doesn't then it's time to leave it, irrespective of the consequences. 

Showering her with love and details is the exact opposite of what you should be doing, she needs to woman up and be an adult. Do not enable you will pay later down the road.


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## Devotee (Sep 22, 2013)

If she is feeling unhappy and unfulfilled in her job and in her marraige, then how can she not at least give counseling a try? I would try my level best to convince her to go. If she is not able to define exactly why she is unhappy then a counselor will help her sort these things out. 

Otherwise, if she flat out refuses to go, then these are things she needs to work through on her own. You can be there for her of course, but she needs to figure out for herself what will make her happy. 

You have only been married for little over a year. Do you think she had different or higher expectations of marriage? Of her job?


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

maineguy said:


> when we met she was happy and driven with big dreams and big ideas. She still is passionate and excited, it is just decreasing all of the time


This jumped out at me. What were her dreams and have you as a couple enabled/encouraged her to pursue them, or is it all about a settled, contented family life now? You sound very content, but she is evidently not and sounds like all her wild ideas and glorious dreams are dying inside her. It must be very hard for you to watch. You said you have adventures sometimes, but it could be she's craving a MAJOR change. Is that kind of upheaval something you are willing to face to save your marriage if that's what it takes?

I am similar to your wife in that respect - passion and excitement. I don't know her at all, but the in the comfortable settled life (a *lot* more back-story in my CWI post) I was unhappy and eventually cracked. I selfishly had an affair and it ended my marriage. Not saying your wife would do that, of course, it was my own downfall. Ironically my energy, adventurous lifestyle and my big dreams are one of the most appealing things about me to many men, who seem to want to 'domesticate', kind of like a lion tamer lol. But you might only end up with a once-magnificent broken beast....think of the sad, flabby, moth-eaten lions at zoos. Unless you will be her wild alpha male, King of the Pride... (metaphor stretched to breaking point now)

Like I said I don't know your wife, but as they say: if you love something, set it free. Ask her more about this. Question to you - how can you meet this need, set her free and stay married?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Am I understanding correctly that you guys are in your early to mid twenties and not out of university very long? I think that's a common period of letdown for a lot of people, because you get out and you realize that having to make a living and make it in the world isn't necessarily the kind of adventure you were sold when you were young. And neither is marriage, for that matter. She sounds like she's having a harder time adjusting to the real world and marriage than you maybe are. 

She does sound mildly depressed. Maybe you could encourage her to see an individual counselor: "I feel like you're not sure what you want out of life and out of our marriage. Maybe a counselor could help you figure it out."


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

@ Amplexor: I think that I do need to ask her about another person, she is in night classes again and often goes to them early and stays late. I trust her to not do this but I think she is depressed and looking for instant satisfaction in something. I will do better to just take care of myself and not crowd her, I needed to hear that because I thought giving her affection might win her back, but I realize it might push her away.

@Mrs. John Adams: She is 24 turning 25 in February and does not take medication, not even birth control because she thought it was affecting her libido. I often suggest she try counseling on her own and only wanted to do it as a couple so she might feel safer. But if she will not go then I am going to, I agree that I need to be at my best to support her and not pressure her. I will try to talk to her mother to see if she has confided anything in her.

@Foxguy148: I agree that the fairy tale expectations might be a cause for this situation, I had at times a challenging childhood and learned early on to take care of myself, she had a slightly more privileged childhood and this might be the first time she has legitimately struggled. I am changing my behavior to not coddle the bad attitude and not jump down her throat either. Being over compassionate is something I struggle with and at times know that I have enabled people to miss treat me. I am going to search for a middle ground where I can hold her accountable but also forgive her and allow her/me to try and resolve this.

@ Devotee: I do think she had higher expectations of almost everything in her life. She was a very high achiever in her youth, almost never struggling to be the very best, she was a state champion skier, best in her class, top seat in band etc, this continued through most of college as well, but she hasn't been happy in her adult life at all, and unfortunately I met her right at the beginning of her adult life. Now I think she feels that our relationship had held her back from achieving, and maybe that is the case, but I try to ask her how she wishes it would be different or what we need to do and she doesn't have an answer. She struggles with judgement and has never accepted criticism. In her younger years when she was the best, if something didn't go right she could usually blame it on someone/something else and then move on. Now I think she is having a hard time realizing that what she really needs to change is herself, and she somehow has run out of things to blame in her life except for our relationship.


Now I know it probably sounds like I am just complaining about her, but these are just the things we are struggling with. This is by no means the whole picture of who she is because she is definitely a wonderful person who I love immensely and we still share lots of great moments and happiness, we have just been dodging around this issue for about a year now and will briefly touch on it, fight, then move on. I just feel like I now have enough courage to try and actually fix it, but I guess she might not yet, so I need to take the advice of taking care of myself, loving her and allowing her the space to grow and come back to me in our marriage.

Thank you everyone.


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

@ John Lee: This is spot on John, I had a very rough adolescent period of my life where I had to grow up fast and learn about what the world really is like, had to get a job to help pay bills and almost parent my brothers. She did not, and I see almost all of my peers experiencing this "let down" of what life really is. I try to tell her that we have good things in our life every day and that we have so many things to look forward to but she wants them now, because she feels like they will lift her out of her unhappiness. I try to explain that happiness is a point of view and that she can choose to be happy no matter what her reality is. But I am going to really encourage the counseling and go myself. If I go and have success maybe she will feel better about trying it.

@Gumtree: Thank you for your ideas, I think you are a lot like my wife. When I met her she was graduating a year early and had dreams of going to grad school and being a doctor or something of high prestige. She wanted to travel the world, be a mother by 28 and own a home. These were all things I wanted too and we were so excited to start the journey. Unfortunately she didn't know what she wanted to go to grad school for and decided not to go although I tried to encourage her. We saved a bunch of money and went on a cruise to the Caribbean for our honeymoon to try and travel, but unfortunately we have a lot of student debt and no one else to support us so buying a home and traveling are just not a reality. This is the biggest thing that disappoints her. I would go on every adventure she wanted to go on if we actually could, but the fact is we just don't have any money and have over $1000 of loan payments each month. And I am very on board with changing something drastically, we were 99% on our way to moving from Maine to California to chase a job opportunity for her, but it fell through. Then we were 99% on our way to moving up north into Maine to buy a house and follow a job offer that fell through. This year I was finally offered a great job that is right near our house, I now make enough so that she can actually go back to school and not work, but now she feels like I am achieving the things she should be achieving and feels like we are now tied to this area because of my job. I told her that I will leave at any point, but currently can save a lot of money each month, enough that in a year we could go on a trip around the world, or in three years buy a house. She just hears those things and wants them now, because she can't see herself struggling on for a year, or three years.

I wish so badly that I could let her out of her cage, but she is the one keeping herself there. She is brilliant and vibrant and that's what I love about her. I never once wanted to domesticate her, I just am working with what we have as best I can. I am afraid that if she cheats on me, or leaves me, she will find nothing but rock bottom which might be what she needs to move on and grow. It would just break my heart for her to find that without me because I love her so much, but If that is what she needs her happiness is most important.

I will try to find a way to let her be free and be in our marriage, I just hope I am strong enough and she still wants it.


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

Oh Maineguy, I never meant to imply that her feeling stifled is YOUR fault! Sorry if it came over that way. I just thought that might be a key factor for her and you could somehow address it together perhaps, rather than letting her work those feelings out on her own. 

I think people with this character (myself and your wife, although she sounds much more accomplished than me!) have a tendency to be active adventurous think-big charmers, but also short-sighted malcontents at times. I often wish I could just calm down instead of being a blowfly as my ex-H called me once. And I did hit rock bottom as a result of my tempestuous nature.

I'd agree with the poster who suggested she needs to adjust her expectations of life and marriage to an adult perspective. How to do that, while keeping her passion alive? I only wish I knew so I could advise you while applying it to myself! Best wishes.


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

Boy I sure wish my husband had noticed this about me and asked for help here too... kudos to you!
Hope I'm not thread-hogging, some more thoughts - perhaps buy her a motorbike? Lol.
And passionate women need their man to show passion for us! If she hears reasons 'why it cant happen now' from you all the time, she'll appreciate the logic but still feel stifled. So if you dont already: throw logic to the wind for a while - fantasize with her, get excited planning your travels online and brochures, look at houses for sale and discuss them eagerly. Just enjoy involving yourself in her dreams sometimes rather than focus on the budgets and time frames. She's clever enough to know it cant happen now but her passion still needs feeding. Biggest of all, don't ever forget to dance with her, laugh with her, push her against the wall and kiss her because you cant contain your passion and lust for her. 

Problem solved?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

maineguy said:


> ....., I am afraid that the counselor is going to say we should part ways because (me) am so much better and (her) is a lost cause that doesn't deserve you."
> 
> This was the first time that I had ever heard her say that she thinks her unhappiness is related to our marriage and it broke my heart. I love her so much and would kiss her and dote upon her all the time if she let me, I have wanted to go to dance classes with her, do new things she is interested in, read books she likes. But for some reason when I give her affection or put effort into the relationship she turns it away because it makes her feel guilty that she is a bad partner or that she is obligated to be in the relationship with me. I think she struggles with entitlement and feels like she shouldn't need to work at having a happy relationship......


The stuff about acknowledging fault is quite a common tactic. Oddly, if you beat her, saying that you were on the wrong would not make it OK. Essentially, it is a sugar coated way of saying take it as it is or leave it. However, the way it is presented makes it seem unreasonable that you would find such a statement annoying.

I have no wise advice and I am not sure if this helps, but if her saying this sort of thing irritiates you, it is understandable. 

I think might represent a lack of respect. No doubt a book reocmmendation will appear from someone more knowledgable than me, but I would suggest that her lack of respect is not your responsibility. You can try and do something about it, but do not take the weight of responsibililty.


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

@ Gumtree: Thank you for your suggestions, you know I think a motorbike or at least scooter would be an awesome idea. I definitely play the responsible "we can't afford that" role to often and I wish I could break it but its part of my nature, I am sure its one of the things she loves about me even if it pisses her off sometimes. But a scooter is cheap, fun, gives her freedom and can feel like a cool chick riding it, and she has mentioned it before. I might give that a go, and I will get better at not being afraid of the rejection and keep letting her know I am passionate, I think for a while I held back because I knew she was shaky and I didn't want to smother her. I wish that there was an instruction booklet for this stuff.

@ Mr the other: I think its good sometime to realize its not my fault. This is actually something I need individual counseling on. I often take on other peoples problems as my own and don't hold them accountable. Thanks for your insight.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Her happiness is her own responsibility.

If she is not happy in her marriage, then it is up to her to figure it out. Flat out ask her what she "needs" from you as a husband. If she cannot articulate it or refuses to then what can you do really?

Finally, if she is clinically depressed, then she needs to see a doctor for her illness. Again if she refuses, there is not much you can do but try & be supportive of a sick person who refuses to help themselves.

I understand that it is HARD. However she is an adult woman who entered into a marriage/partnership & is not trying to make it work.

Book a marriage counseling appointment. Invite her to come along. If she refuses, go alone (I did).


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm so glad my ideas could be helpful to you. I'm sure she appreciates your mature perspective on finances in her rational moments but other times it can feel very 'stick in the mud' when her flight of fancy is struck down. Here's an example from my marriage.

I remember when my husband and I just moved into the ramshackle farm house we'd bought with not even power or running water. I got all excited and came to him with house and garden magazine, thrilled to tell him/ask him about the gorgeous, elaborate, and completely impractical, Japanese courtyard garden I imagined us relaxing in with friends. I'd been doodling paving stones, bamboo, fountains and blossoming plum trees in my notebook. He slapped it right down with "can we just get the house livable first?" I was just building castles in the sky for a few hours and it was making me so happy. I knew the priorities and that we obviously didn't have 2 dollars to rub together.

This was my happy place and he shattered it with his comment. I found myself instead looking at the cracks in the plaster, the sag in the ceiling that we had no money to fix anyway. My bubble burst and I slowly stopped sharing my dreams with him over the years. I hope you can recognise that these dreams are not grounded in reality, they are her harmless pleasure. Share them with her, be as outlandish as you possibly can and she'll eat it up. It's a bonding experience.

Could it really be that simple? Just try opening with "where shall we go on our round-the-world trip honey? I'd really like to see the pyramids..." then refrain from mentioning any practicalities at all for the next hour, see where that takes you both. Can you do that?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Long posts, much talking, I feel the direction and intentions are good.

But now you need to take ACTION!

Go outside of the house, do new activities, meet new people, and make her and yourself find PASSION in life (again)

Lots and lots of DO!


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## maineguy (Jan 15, 2014)

@ emerald, Gumtree, See Listen Love:

We did go to counseling last night and she was open, she is committed to the relationship and I think we had some good communication. We talked about her dreams being too big and that she knows they aren't practical but she loves to get lost in books and stories and feels like dreaming is the same thing. So I am going to dream with her and let reality state itself, not me. 

To actually accomplish a dream and something she wants to have so she has adventure we are going to go out and buy her a moped tomorrow. She has always wanted one, since it would make her feel excited and free and rebellious (against her mom) but previously we couldn't afford it. Now we can so we are making it happen. 

And we will go get out there, she has acknowledged that she is depressed and had falsely put it on my shoulders, and unfortunately I enabled her to put it there which only made it worse. But we are moving on, first baby steps but they feel good.

Thanks everyone!


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## gumtree (Jun 1, 2013)

Yay!! Well done, tackling it together! Good on you for addressing the issue head on and coming up with solutions together. Enjoy. That is all.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

maineguy said:


> We talked about her dreams being too big and that she knows they aren't practical but she loves to get lost in books and stories and feels like dreaming is the same thing. So I am going to dream with her and let reality state itself, not me.
> 
> Eh... Lots of succesful people advise to dream BIG!
> 
> ...


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