# New Girlfriend Always Going out with Male friends



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

So I've been dating this girl for about two months now and she's very easy going and we have ALOT in common...even down to our tastes and habits. This has been a refresher.
We did have a small hiccup over my vasectomy (I've been married, divirced wiht two kids etc but she's spent all her life in med school etc and in her mid 30's but still has noncommittal hopes of starting a family etc 50/50 according to her....which I have nothing against). Somehow we found middle ground.

Now I'm very open minded and I give people a fair shot but I've noticed often (not constantly but very regularly) goes out with male friends (dinner and a movie, or meeting up for dinner) but it's usually not in a group. Different guys she says she's met over the yrs throug grad school, med school etc but 90% of the time it's just her and a guy friend. Occassionally they are in a group but thats usually a rarity. 

I have a gut feeling there might be more to it from a guys perspective. I know few guys who go out solo with girls they have no plans on banging or haven't banged (lets be real here). I don't go out with girls in that manner since I've been with her, yet she once complained about me often referencing my exes in conversations when discussing lifes experiences.

Am I crazy or something seems "off"?


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## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

aston said:


> So I've been dating this girl for about two months now and she's very easy going and we have ALOT in common...even down to our tastes and habits. This has been a refresher.
> We did have a small hiccup over my vasectomy (I've been married, divirced wiht two kids etc but she's spent all her life in med school etc and in her mid 30's but still has noncommittal hopes of starting a family etc 50/50 according to her....which I have nothing against). Somehow we found middle ground.
> 
> Now I'm very open minded and I give people a fair shot but I've noticed often (not constantly but very regularly) goes out with male friends (dinner and a movie, or meeting up for dinner) but it's usually not in a group. Different guys she says she's met over the yrs throug grad school, med school etc but 90% of the time it's just her and a guy friend. Occassionally they are in a group but thats usually a rarity.
> ...


You are a guy, so you know the male perspective. Yes they want to bang her. Is she out of line? Hard to say yet. Here is the deal though. You know she is going to the movie, right? well slip in to the same movie in the back row when it is dark and wait and watch. If it is a 9:05 movie, then wait until 9:10 to buy your ticket and walk in. She won't see you or be in the back row, if she is in the back row, you already have your answer.
Some woman are naive, some just pretend to be due to enjoying the attention of many men. Some want the attention and will not ever cheat (rare IMO). The ones that like the attention, need it to fuel their insecurities and eventually they will cheat to feel wanted. No relationship or marriage goes until death with out rough patches. People who are extremely insecure can not handle these down times and will seek the affirmation from any where they can get it.
She may just be another female thinking all these guys give her attention b/c they want her as a buddy. She would not be the first to be naive. There will be some women that come on here and fight these statements and most likely a few beta males will as well. You sound more Alpha then Beta to me so you know what I am talking about.

I would be more concerned about the telling fact that it appears you (as the new boyfriend) is not not being invited to join them. When I got with my wife, I took her everywhere I went as I wanted very much for my friends to become hers and vice versa


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## SF-FAN (Sep 24, 2013)

aston said:


> So I've been dating this girl for about two months now and she's very easy going and we have ALOT in common...even down to our tastes and habits. This has been a refresher.
> We did have a small hiccup over my vasectomy (I've been married, divirced wiht two kids etc but she's spent all her life in med school etc and in her mid 30's but still has noncommittal hopes of starting a family etc 50/50 according to her....which I have nothing against). Somehow we found middle ground.
> 
> Now I'm very open minded and I give people a fair shot but I've noticed often (not constantly but very regularly) goes out with male friends (dinner and a movie, or meeting up for dinner) but it's usually not in a group. Different guys she says she's met over the yrs throug grad school, med school etc but 90% of the time it's just her and a guy friend. Occassionally they are in a group but thats usually a rarity.
> ...


I'm with you. I don't believe a guy and girl can just be friends. Guys don't usually hang out with girls they have no intention of "hooking up with" that's just how guys are. It's like going to a bar but not wanting to have a drink...not happening.


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

30 yof looking to start a family... You didn't reach a middle ground...


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

aston said:


> Now I'm very open minded and I give people a fair shot but I've noticed often (not constantly but very regularly) goes out with male friends (dinner and a movie, or meeting up for dinner) but it's usually not in a group. Different guys she says she's met over the yrs throug grad school, med school etc but 90% of the time it's just her and a guy friend. Occassionally they are in a group but thats usually a rarity.
> 
> Am I crazy or something seems "off"?


No you are not crazy. You are only into this relationship for two months now, but if you plan on getting more serous with her and be in an exclusive relationship, then this behavior needs to stop. If there is some reluctance to do so, then do yourself a favor and end the relationship .... or keep it on a "friends with benefits" level. You don't need the headaches that will certainly follow.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SF-FAN said:


> I'm with you. I don't believe a guy and girl can just be friends. Guys don't usually hang out with girls they have no intention of "hooking up with" that's just how guys are. It's like going to a bar but not wanting to have a drink...not happening.


Sure they can and do. They might accept they aren't going to hook up with her in particular, but her friends and associates and any female who gets that social validation would be faregame for him, so he's not wasting his time.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

SF-FAN said:


> I'm with you. I don't believe a guy and girl can just be friends. Guys don't usually hang out with girls they have no intention of "hooking up with" that's just how guys are. It's like going to a bar but not wanting to have a drink...not happening.


I don't know about that. They might not intend to hook up with her. I have had a few female friends I've had lunch or dinner with, etc. that I did not "intend" to hook up with and never did ... but it ALWAYS crossed my mind.

Personally, I would be very concerned, especially if the two of you have committed to being exclusive. My wife had one such friend when she and I started dating ... after the I love you exchange ... and I only found out long after we had married that she was hooking up with him at that point. I had a gut feeling about that. I would be with her at her mom's house and he would stop by to say hello ... the look on her face told my gut that he was no friend of mine.


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## SF-FAN (Sep 24, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Sure they can and do. They might accept they aren't going to hook up with her in particular, but her friends and associates and any female who gets that social validation would be faregame for him, so he's not wasting his time.


Point taken but hanging out alone often says that one or the other are looking for more than a friendship.



JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I don't know about that. They might not intend to hook up with her. I have had a few female friends I've had lunch or dinner with, etc. that I did not "intend" to hook up with and never did ... *but it ALWAYS crossed my mind.*
> 
> Personally, I would be very concerned, especially if the two of you have committed to being exclusive. My wife had one such friend when she and I started dating ... after the I love you exchange ... and I only found out long after we had married that she was hooking up with him at that point. I had a gut feeling about that. I would be with her at her mom's house and he would stop by to say hello ... the look on her face told my gut that he was no friend of mine.


 It also depends on the frequency of the meetings. Not too often, I can buy the "only friends" rationale, but pretty often, as I mentioned above, one of the parties is looking for more.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

There is a reason she goes out with male "friends" *alone* more than girl friends.

They have penises and want to use them.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Seems fairly simple to me.

You say she is your girlfriend, so I would assume that means you are in an exclusive relationship.

Going out with another male friend for dinner and a movie is called a "date"; meaning your relationship is not exclusive; at least not for her.

So you are letting her know that it's OK for her to date other people. That's not something I would accept if it were my "girlfriend".

And even if nothing else is going on during these dates (though I have my doubts), you're setting a bad precedent for your future with her. Will this continue if you are engaged, married?

Best to put your foot down now if you want a relationship with her, and if she balks, find a new girlfriend.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

I'm confused why don't you go out with her, isn't that cutting into your "you" time? Have you been out with her and this friend? If not, why not?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

This won't get better with time...NEXT.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Sure they can and do. They might accept they aren't going to hook up with her in particular, but her friends and associates and any female who gets that social validation would be faregame for him, so he's not wasting his time.


I don't agree. They might "accept" but the acceptance is subjective with a glimmer of hope. We're talking guys here.....it's never really an "acceptance" per se. 
I "accepted" the no hookup zone in the past only to eventually hook up 5, 7 and in one case 10 yrs later (and yes her friends were fair game after the "acceptance" into the friend zone).


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> ... but it ALWAYS crossed my mind.
> 
> Personally, I would be very concerned, especially if the two of you have committed to being exclusive. My wife had one such friend when she and I started dating ... after the I love you exchange ... and I only found out long after we had married that she was hooking up with him at that point. I had a gut feeling about that. I would be with her at her mom's house and he would stop by to say hello ... the look on her face told my gut that he was no friend of mine.


Exactly! and believe me from a guys stand point my gut feeling ya know. Some of these guys cross the international spectrum...Greek, Italian, Middle Eastern, American. Now I was raised in Europe and from being widely traveled there's one thing I know for sure is how guys get down regardless of where in the world they're from. A guy will look you straight in the face and you won't know he's been banging your girl lol.
Plus...just because I haven't banged you yet doesn't mean it's not on my mind otherwise dinner and a movie in the evenings is time I'd rather spend doing other things.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

SF-FAN said:


> Point taken but hanging out alone often says that one or the other are looking for more than a friendship.
> 
> 
> 
> It also depends on the frequency of the meetings. Not too often, I can buy the "only friends" rationale, but pretty often, as I mentioned above, one of the parties is looking for more.


Exactly! else how would you rationalize dinner and late night movies.
Won't a "normal" person wonder why a girl seeing someone is out with him on weekday nights having dinner and off to a movie? 
I don't even know what to think anymore...


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

badmemory said:


> Seems fairly simple to me.
> 
> You say she is your girlfriend, so I would assume that means you are in an exclusive relationship.
> 
> ...


Very well said and I appreciate the bluntness. We did discuss exclusivity but the actions don't match the conversation. So confusing.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

BobSimmons said:


> I'm confused why don't you go out with her, isn't that cutting into your "you" time? Have you been out with her and this friend? If not, why not?


We've gone out alot together....weekdays and weekends as well. SOmething however seems out of place...


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

why do you put up with this?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

At a minimum, you have a GF that blurs the boundaries and is statistically at risk for cheating at some point or another simply due to her preference for male friends and how she interacts with them.

Is she worth all the drama that entails to continue on with a relationship? That's up to you to decide. But since you are so early into it, you can lay everything out on the table now before it gets too complicated. Tell her that you do not accept the idea that she is going out on "dinner dates" and "movie dates" with male friends while she's dating you. If she won't give up these outings with male friends, then leave the relationship for good. It's that simple.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

aston said:


> I don't agree. They might "accept" but the acceptance is subjective with a glimmer of hope. We're talking guys here.....it's never really an "acceptance" per se.
> I "accepted" the no hookup zone in the past only to eventually hook up 5, 7 and in one case 10 yrs later (and yes her friends were fair game after the "acceptance" into the friend zone).


"I know she doesn't see me like that. If she offers I probably will take her up on it, even though I know she's married. But she's so fine and has very attractive friends, so I'll probably be better off getting through to them".

Men do this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It's early in the dating game. Have the two of you agreed to be exclusive? 

My take is that your vasectomy takes you out of the running for a committed, long term relationship in her eyes. She will most likely want children so you are not a good long term option for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

kenmoore14217 said:


> why do you put up with this?


I'm honestly asking myself the same question!! She's also damn fine with a smoking body....I know that sounds bad, men we never learn!!!


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> At a minimum, you have a GF that blurs the boundaries and is statistically at risk for cheating at some point or another simply due to her preference for male friends and how she interacts with them.
> 
> Is she worth all the drama that entails to continue on with a relationship? That's up to you to decide. But since you are so early into it, you can lay everything out on the table now before it gets too complicated. Tell her that you do not accept the idea that she is going out on "dinner dates" and "movie dates" with male friends while she's dating you. If she won't give up these outings with male friends, then leave the relationship for good. It's that simple.


I'm really contemplating that. Now I'm waiting for her next outing with a male friend to lay it out to her.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

treyvion said:


> "I know she doesn't see me like that. If she offers I probably will take her up on it, even though I know she's married. But she's so fine and has very attractive friends, so I'll probably be better off getting through to them".
> 
> Men do this.


Precisely! Nailed it!!!


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> It's early in the dating game. Have the two of you agreed to be exclusive?
> 
> My take is that your vasectomy takes you out of the running for a committed, long term relationship in her eyes. She will most likely want children so you are not a good long term option for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought about this as well which makes sense. But she recently dropped the L - word which honestly I didn't know what to make of. I don't know if I'm over analysing things but the actions are just too blatant to reconcile with the words. I will jsut wait for the next "meeting my friend for dinner / drinks and maybe a movie" to lay it out to her.

I don't meet members of the opposite sex in such exclusive manner when I'm with someone.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

aston said:


> I thought about this as well which makes sense. But she recently dropped the L - word which honestly I didn't know what to make of. I don't know if I'm over analysing things but the actions are just too blatant to reconcile with the words. *I will jsut wait for the next "meeting my friend for dinner / drinks and maybe a movie" to lay it out to her.*
> 
> I don't meet members of the opposite sex in such exclusive manner when I'm with someone.


Why wait? No time like the present.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It seems as if your gf has is still in university mode. imagine all that late night studying she did with her classmates without regard to whatever sex they are; all the all nights that they stayed at each other's place and so forth.......

So now if she is serious about a relationship for herself, she needs to be weaned off this university way of thinking. We all had to go through it.......

As you two move more closely to exclusivity, tell her that you would like to meet all of her friends, male and female. And that over the long term, you do not like the idea of one on ones that she has with her male friends, for the reason that they are date like. If you say that they are a date, you can be sure that she will protest that with "but we're just friends."

I don't know if you can salvage this relationship. Because I think this OSF stuff runs deep among younger (20 and 30 somethings) people and they have to lose or at least practically lose a good relationship before they realise that hanging with people of the opposite sex who aren't making the same sacrifices as you are to be with her is not worth it.

I went through this with my fiance. If I were to give him the benefit of the doubt, he actually thought he was "just friends" with someone he used to date who was interested in our sex life ...... and then told him to dump me because we weren't -- according to her -- having sex often enough. She of course had just rejected a kiss from him and realised that she was losing the advantage of his credit card as he wasn't as available to her as he used to be. 

He has had to do a lot to make up for these foibles. 

For you OP, if she continues to insist that these are "just friends" and continues with the objectionable behavior, I would say you are wasting your time.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

I have a female friend on facebook...not really a friend but someone I went to school with...NO PRIVATE MESSAGES LOL

She is always *****ing about how men are jealous wussies and none of them can deal with her having male friends...um...honey...your 43...dying to get married...and no prospects in site...maybe its this whole "ALL my friends are guys" ****...I wouldnt put up with that crap either

I have female friends...99% of them are friends with my wife or MY male friends wives...when we get together, men go in one room, women in the other...we just dont have THAT much in common

imo a male friend is just someone who wants to but hasnt banged you yet...period...flame away...unless they are gay (i am not anti-gay, I have gay friends)


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> It seems as if your gf has is still in university mode. imagine all that late night studying she did with her classmates without regard to whatever sex they are; all the all nights that they stayed at each other's place and so forth.......
> 
> So now if she is serious about a relationship for herself, she needs to be weaned off this university way of thinking. We all had to go through it.......
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reality check I think the writing is on the wall to be honest. I just needed some insight and input....getting clearer and clearer.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

missthelove2013 said:


> I have a female friend on facebook...not really a friend but someone I went to school with...NO PRIVATE MESSAGES LOL
> 
> She is always *****ing about how men are jealous wussies and none of them can deal with her having male friends...um...honey...your 43...dying to get married...and no prospects in site...maybe its this whole "ALL my friends are guys" ****...I wouldnt put up with that crap either
> 
> ...


It really feels nice to know I'm not crazy here and I'm right to acknowledge my gut feeling.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

This feels strangely like deja vu all over again because my ex is now with a guy who was a family friend....YES FAMILY FRIEND. Some family friend right?

I mean......no guy I know just hangs solo with a hot doctor without a motive, willingness, or inclination to bang her. Just saying.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

aston said:


> I'm honestly asking myself the same question!! She's also damn fine with a smoking body....I know that sounds bad, men we never learn!!!


Because of those attributes she gets to kick you in the head over and over again


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Because of those attributes she gets to kick you in the head over and over again


geez no sympathy lol. at least my lines are cut so no anchor babies lol. These responses really have me thinking in many directions.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

aston said:


> I'm honestly asking myself the same question!! She's also damn fine with a smoking body....I know that sounds bad, men we never learn!!!


Dime a dozen, if you can get her you can get others just like her. 

Start backing away, even if she isn't cheating its just a matter of time. When you play with fire long enough you end up getting burned. Countless affairs start out with "just friends".


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

ArmyofJuan said:


> Dime a dozen, if you can get her you can get others just like her.
> 
> Start backing away, *even if she isn't cheating its just a matter of time. *When you play with fire long enough you end up getting burned. Countless affairs start out with "just friends".


there also comes a point when "just behaving as friends" can also be an insult to the exclusive relationship.

She needs to learn to have arms' length relationships with her male friends. But she may not learn this in time for you.


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

Guys and girls CAN be friends. A lot of the negativity you hear on here about that are from people who's WS had a "friend" they were intimate with. 

It's hard to learn to trust but trust you must. Locking up your spouse for life won't make for a happy relationship. 

If there is nothing amiss with their friendship then they won't mind including you. If they do mind, or if they are trying to make sure their time is always alone that is probably a sign of trouble. 

I have two great friends who are girls. My wife is included in all our conversations. We get our families together and hang out. But occasionally it might just be me and one of them who have lunch together. It's not a big deal if done right. 

Unfortunately you aren't far enough along in your relationship to know what's going on. And you aren't far enough along to be demanding too much from her. 2 months in it's still in a "take it or leave it" phase


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

^^My wife doesnt have inappropriate relationships with male friends...Ive not had a ws or wayward grlfriend in a LONG LONG time

I think men and women can be friends, but its obvious when they are too close...

Ive sat at the table with my wifes friends...after 20 minutes of the female banter I cant take it any more...men and women just dont have that much in common...now if I am texting and emailing and hanging out with a female friend all the time, there is more going on...sorry...we didnt just discover a mutual love for fashion or football...we are either banging or I am planning on it


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

JadedHusband said:


> Guys and girls CAN be friends. A lot of the negativity you hear on here about that are from people who's WS had a "friend" they were intimate with.
> 
> It's hard to learn to trust but trust you must. Locking up your spouse for life won't make for a happy relationship.
> 
> ...


and if these two (either one or both at the same time) offered you a romp in the sac would you turn them down? Go ahead...lie to me :rofl:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

missthelove2013 said:


> ^^My wife doesnt have inappropriate relationships with male friends...Ive not had a ws or wayward grlfriend in a LONG LONG time
> 
> I think men and women can be friends, but its obvious when they are too close...
> 
> Ive sat at the table with my wifes friends...after 20 minutes of the female banter I cant take it any more...men and women just dont have that much in common...now if I am texting and emailing and hanging out with a female friend all the time, there is more going on...sorry...we didnt just discover a mutual love for fashion or football...we are either banging or I am planning on it


20 minutes makes sense but dinner and a movie? or multiple "meeting up for coffee" evening solo get togethers? to me thats a red flag.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

aston said:


> I'm honestly asking myself the same question!! She's also *damn fine with a smoking body*....I know that sounds bad, men we never learn!!!


Scarcity thinking will F you up every time. Read the Nice Guy book if you haven't already.

You already have her up on a pedestal b/c she's "damn fine." So now you're willing to eat shyte.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

thunderstruck said:


> Scarcity thinking will F you up every time. Read the Nice Guy book if you haven't already.
> 
> You already have her up on a pedestal b/c she's "damn fine." So now you're willing to eat shyte.


This is what the pedastal viewpoint does to us. At the end of the day they are people. They use the bathroom, have to perform hygene, have to eat, need shelter, work, communicate, can help you can harm you...


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Have you brought up your concerns with her?(Ask if she would be ok if you do the same)


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

SF-FAN said:


> I'm with you. I don't believe a guy and girl can just be friends. Guys don't usually hang out with girls they have no intention of "hooking up with" that's just how guys are. It's like going to a bar but not wanting to have a drink...not happening.


Right... As a drinker, or even alcoholic. I'm going into that environment to just look around and have a "good time", right...

Keep going in there and you will do what they do in there.


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## Samus (Aug 28, 2012)

JadedHusband said:


> Guys and girls CAN be friends. A lot of the negativity you hear on here about that are from people who's WS had a "friend" they were intimate with.
> 
> It's hard to learn to trust but trust you must. Locking up your spouse for life won't make for a happy relationship.
> 
> ...



This is BS. Men and Women cannot be friends if they are in exclusive relationship. It is just a temptation that is not appropriate in a marriage. 

Why put yourself in a position to be tempted to cheat. Friends get way to close and are very personal, I rather my wife be personal with her female friends then a male friend. 

Women will cheat if you give them the opportunities. 

If your girlfriend has any ounce of decency and respect for a relationship she should know better. How stupid can people be to think men and women can have friendships with other men and go out on private movie and dinners. That is WTF crazy LOL....It boggles my mind you haven't said WTF hell no, yet.

You have read it here over and over and over that wives/husband say they would never ever cheat and find it so offensive only to find out there the ones cheating. bull**** bull**** bull****.

"Whatever you give a woman, she will make greater. If you give her sperm, she'll give you a baby.. If you give her a house, she'll give you a home. If you give her groceries, she'll give you a meal. If you give her a smile, she'll give you her heart. She multiplies and enlarges what is given to her. So, if you give her any crap, be ready to receive a ton of sht!” If you give her free dates with men, she will give you a broken heart.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

New GF should be Ex-Gf real soon or right now. And that is why you date, weed out the bad ones. Now, if she was the last woman on the face of this earth and you had her, I would say grab her and keep her no matter what. But since there are millions of them out there, throw her back.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

aston, you need to just dump her and get a girl that respects you.

She is keeping her options open and I'd be good money she already has been riding their baloney ponies. You know she has. So get rid of her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Well, here's the deal. I had a number of female friends who I used to go out with to concerts, drinks and the like. And never even so much as a kiss.

But only very rarely when I was in a relationship. And usually for a good reason which my wife accepted, when I explained it to her. (Now reduced to being sent out by my wife to help her girl friends with computer issues, spiders to be caught, etc!)

It seems as if your girl friend is being disrespectful, but might not be aware of this fact.

A serious talk is in order, I feel.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

CH said:


> New GF should be Ex-Gf real soon or right now. And that is why you date, weed out the bad ones. Now, if she was the last woman on the face of this earth and you had her, I would say grab her and keep her no matter what. But since there are millions of them out there, throw her back.


Yeah, I have to agree with this. There are 3.5 billion women in this world ... you have options.


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

aston said:


> and if these two (either one or both at the same time) offered you a romp in the sac would you turn them down? Go ahead...lie to me :rofl:


Why is that hard to believe? I don't understand it. My wife makes me happy. I wouldn't need to be with them. It doesn't make sense. 

But friends don't do that. A friend respects you and your marriage. 

Both at the same time???? Well....the spirit is strong but the flesh is weak.. :rofl:

But in all seriousness maybe levels of attractiveness come into play with others? Friend #1 isn't unattractive but nothing exceptional. Friend #2 is attractive but there is no attraction. My spouse is smoking hot according to everyone else. I think so too but I'm biased obviously. 

It just wouldn't make sense for me to step out considering it's a step down? 

I don't know...your question has made me think more about this than I ever had. 

There are members of the opposite sex that when you relate to them it is more as brother and sister than boyfriend/girlfriend. 

Both of my friends are big football fans and my wife isn't. When I'm talking to them via texts it's during a game we are both watching. When the game is over we aren't texting anymore. We don't say "good morning" or "good night" we say "that was a stupid call!!" or "omgz touchdown!!!"

/ramble


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

Samus said:


> This is BS. Men and Women cannot be friends if they are in exclusive relationship. It is just a temptation that is not appropriate in a marriage.
> 
> Why put yourself in a position to be tempted to cheat. Friends get way to close and are very personal, I rather my wife be personal with her female friends then a male friend.
> 
> *Women will cheat if you give them the opportunities.*


If you are tempted to cheat whenever you are around another female that is a personal issue, not an issue everyone has. That is a sign of admitted moral weakness. Why project that on others?

And the "women will cheat..." line. For surely you must be joking right??

Bc if not, heaven forbid you find out yours did cheat, it won't be due to her proximity to other men. It will be because of that attitude.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

aston said:


> I'm honestly asking myself the same question!! She's also damn fine with a smoking body....I know that sounds bad, men we never learn!!!


 There's your problem and a lot of guys make the same mistake. "Smokin' Hot Body". Men, including me have a habit of looking from the neck down rather than opening our ears and listening to what she has to say and we miss the big picture.

You said she complains when you mention one of your old GF's in conversation but she has no problem going out with a "friend" that is male. (see above. look from the neck down) 

If this is an exclusive thing that you two have, then open your mouth and tell her why she gets bent out of shape when you mention an old GF yet she can go out with another guy and not think anything about it. Wanna know why? I think she already notices that your checking out that smoking hot body and that's whats keeping you in line.

You and I know that what she's doing is wrong if this is exclusive. You have a choice. Either let her keep doing this and sooner or later it's going to be more than dinner or a movie or open your mouth and let her know that this sort of thing can't continue if she wants you two to stay together. If she refuses, then move on. 

I'm 66 years old and I found out a long time ago that a big set of boobs and nice ass doesn't mean quality in a relationship. If that's all she has to offer and all your interested in is a quick romp in the sack, fine and dandy but there has to be more than that for a good relationship. So tell her what's on your mind and if you look at her face without gazing down and open your ears and listen, you'll get the answer you need to either stay or move on.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

JadedHusband said:


> If you are tempted to cheat whenever you are around another female that is a personal issue, not an issue everyone has. That is a sign of admitted moral weakness. Why project that on others?
> 
> And the "women will cheat..." line. For surely you must be joking right??
> 
> *Bc if not, heaven forbid you find out yours did cheat, it won't be due to her proximity to other men. It will be because of that attitude.*


Thank God you've come to enlighten the lesser mortals. Here we were all thinking that their cheating was their own fault but in reality they cheated because we were aware they could. 

Your "logic" is astounding.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> It's early in the dating game. Have the two of you agreed to be exclusive?
> 
> My take is that your vasectomy takes you out of the running for a committed, long term relationship in her eyes. She will most likely want children so you are not a good long term option for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with what you are saying, but frankly this is the type of dishonesty that leads to further troubles down the road in relationships.

If I was him, I wouldn't stick around, and I would start exploring my options and expanding my dating pool.

That is exactly what she's doing.

Doesn't matter is she cries a river of tears and says she loves you.
Actions speak louder than words.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

aston said:


> This feels strangely like deja vu all over again because my ex is now with a guy who was a family friend....YES FAMILY FRIEND. Some family friend right?
> 
> .


Then Aston , the problem is with you.
Not saying that you are a bad person, you probably are a very sensitive man, who loves and cares deeply for his relationships.

But you need to fix that part of you that allows women to do that kind of stuff to you.
Women don't respect a man that allows them to get away with indiscretions.
There's a difference between love and respect.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Have you brought up your concerns with her?(Ask if she would be ok if you do the same)


Action Item 1#


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Samus said:


> This is BS. Men and Women cannot be friends if they are in exclusive relationship. It is just a temptation that is not appropriate in a marriage.
> 
> Why put yourself in a position to be tempted to cheat. Friends get way to close and are very personal, I rather my wife be personal with her female friends then a male friend.
> 
> ...


Amen! It's amazing how I suddenly feel like it's not all in my head. That whole "just friends" thing is too risky especially when it comes to spending time alone together. I know what needs to be done.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

vellocet said:


> aston, you need to just dump her and get a girl that respects you.
> 
> She is keeping her options open and I'd be good money she already has been riding their baloney ponies. You know she has. So get rid of her.


Yes it's clear she's keeping her options open because I'm examining this from her point of view. Only someone who is keeping options open will act this way.
You know you're a player and you get **** on for being a jerk, you act nice and they try to play you. I think being a jerk looks increasingly appealing with every woman I get involved with.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

aston said:


> Yes it's clear she's keeping her options open because I'm examining this from her point of view. Only someone who is keeping options open will act this way.
> You know you're a player and you get **** on for being a jerk, you act nice and they try to play you. I think being a jerk looks increasingly appealing with every woman I get involved with.


You don't have to be a jerk or a player, just don't take any crap. If in your opinion she's disrespecting you then move on to the next one. 3.5 billion women in the world, eventually you'll get to one that gets it.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

Well... I'm going be a little harsh. 

I'd go out with other peaple... i'D START asking a women friend (single) if she will like to hang out for a drink, I'd show myself very confident with myself and what I'm doing.... even comming back at the early light of the morning! I will cut of any discussion that involves her friend and start to look in other directions....
In a few words I'd treat her worse then she treats you but without showing it out! If she start's geting pissed, I would looked sorprized and say: THER ONLY FRIENDS!


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> *You don't have to be a jerk or a player, just don't take any crap.* If in your opinion she's disrespecting you then move on to the next one. 3.5 billion women in the world, eventually you'll get to one that gets it.


This..

This is why I disagree when people are labelled "Nice Guy", absolutely nothing wrong with being nice, but being disrespected and taken advantage of is something else altogether.

OP, nothing wrong with a girl having friends, but in England as we call it, she's taking the piss/michael. 

There should be boundaries when people enter into a relationship, what she's doing is borderline dating. Fact is you've allowed it because you tried to play it off like you're not a jealous guy and you're understanding. Fact is you're betraying your own feelings and not being truthful. If you don't like it, then you tell her you don't like it. If she insists on continuing and that she has done nothing wrong then I'm afraid you must part company. The BS will only increase with time, and so early into a relationship you shouldn't really be going through so much drama. 

Dating someone should be fun. Dating is an audition, if she's like this with a "friend", what would happen with someone she was actually attracted to?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

JadedHusband said:


> Why is that hard to believe? I don't understand it. My wife makes me happy. I wouldn't need to be with them. It doesn't make sense.
> 
> *But friends don't do that. A friend respects you and your marriage.*


the problem here is that we will never when a "friend" will jump the track and have an agenda of their own.

My fiance swears that he was "just friends" with his EA. Then after closing a 3 figure bar tab for her and her friends, he went in a for a kiss. She rejected him and then he decided to turn away from her. She then accused him of "leading her on" even though he knew -- and she knew that he knew -- that she was f*cking another guy who, two weeks later became her boyfriend. 

In my 20s, when I still thought that men and women could be friends, I was surprised when the guy would go off on me about leading him on. This from a guy who agreed that we were "just friends" and who I knew was still dating around. 

So, no, I wouldn't trust any woman with my husband in which he went out with her without me. I don't need to waste my time and goodwill with any women who think
1. that they know my husband better than I do; 
2. that they are better friends with my husband than with me; 
3. that they will never agree to go out with me without my husband; 

and so on. I know I can't control what other people think, but hint of the above (maybe others) and they will be completely frozen out.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

aston said:


> Yes it's clear she's keeping her options open because I'm examining this from her point of view. Only someone who is keeping options open will act this way.
> You know you're a player and you get **** on for being a jerk, you act nice and they try to play you. *I think being a jerk looks increasingly appealing with every woman I get involved with*.


You know, I've thought this myself at times. But you can't let a lousy girl turn you into a jerk.

Don't ever be a pushover, but not a player either. Even if women do go for the players, then let the players have them. They'll end up regretting it later.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

vellocet said:


> You know, I've thought this myself at times. But you can't let a lousy girl turn you into a jerk.
> 
> Don't ever be a pushover, but not a player either. Even if women do go for the players, then let the players have them. They'll end up regretting it later.


Agree. I personally don't think that a woman that falls for a jerk or a player is long term material anyway.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Agree. I personally don't think that a woman that falls for a jerk or a player is long term material anyway.


But you'll get laid.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

treyvion said:


> But you'll get laid.


True that and if that is all you want then go for it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I don't know about that. They might not intend to hook up with her. I have had a few female friends I've had lunch or dinner with, etc. that I did not "intend" to hook up with and never did ... but it ALWAYS crossed my mind.
> 
> Personally, I would be very concerned, especially if the two of you have committed to being exclusive. My wife had one such friend when she and I started dating ... after the I love you exchange ... and I only found out long after we had married that she was hooking up with him at that point. I had a gut feeling about that. I would be with her at her mom's house and he would stop by to say hello ... the look on her face told my gut that he was no friend of mine.


WOW! Would You have married her If you found out back then? What type of fallout happened when you did find out? She basically cheated on you back then. Maybe trying out two guys at once Just to see which one she like better?
Did you carry that behavior into your marriage? Just curious. These types of scenarios Our mind boggling to me!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

When did TAM/CWI turn into a dating advice column?

OP, check out Dr. Love (Doc Love - AskMen). He'll answer all your questions.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> WOW! Would You have married her If you found out back then? What type of fallout happened when you did find out? She basically cheated on you back then. Maybe trying out two guys at once Just to see which one she like better?
> Did you carry that behavior into your marriage? Just curious. These types of scenarios Our mind boggling to me!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, I would not have married her back then. Yes, I think she WAS trying to determine which one she wanted. It's actually amazing that she chose me because this guy was a backup QB for Texas A&M who was not only ripped but definitely a charmer (but not a player). They were really good friends.

No, as far has behavior into marriage, that is one thing I haven't felt a need to question. She is a person of high character. That said ... we separated for some time a few years ago due to unrelated issues ... and she dated. I also have evidence that she started this just prior to the separation. I caught her and she lied ... honestly the first time in 21 years that I had caught her in a lie. She explained that she was extremely angry at me at the time; I actually believe her about that. I was separating from her and she wanted to get even.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

She's not your girlfriend.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

treyvion said:


> But you'll get laid.


...or get labelled a rapist. 
Ok , j/k:rofl:

Anyway sometimes in a man's life there comes a time that even though he's getting laid, he wants more from a relationship.
He realizes that there's so much more than _just_ getting laid.

I think the OP is probably at that stage being married for sometime and now , divorced.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

aston said:


> Amen! It's amazing how I suddenly feel like it's not all in my head. That whole "just friends" thing is too risky especially when it comes to spending time alone together. I know what needs to be done.


Here is the problem: The Spark.

A couple of people meet and without knowing why they just 'click'. They swap glances, they tend to gravitate to each other, they prefer each other's company.

Now...if they are in a monogamous relationship with other people, they MAY...if they BOTH have good boundaries be able to keep the relationship kosher. But they need to HOLD to the rules. (Always in public and preferably with the significant other, no driving alone, communicate seldom and don't allow it to get onto 'personal' issues.) 

My advice to you is a bit of game playing. You have female friends. Go out to dinner and a movie with them. Alone. Late showings. "Sorry honey, she's my friend, you don't know her. I love you. Buh bye."

Her reaction may be entirely internal. Sometimes you need a bit of contrast to wake you up on what you are doing.

HOWEVER...I do not hold out a lot of hope. If she is Ms. 'Smoking Hot Body', she has a holding pattern of guys just waiting to land. She feels that you should take what you can get and be happy about it. All her OTHER boyfriends aren't complaining...

But you already know this.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> She's not your girlfriend.


Correction: She is EVERYONE'S girlfriend. At least the suitable ones.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Biz Markie - Just A Friend (Official Video) - YouTube


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You have gotten yourself snipped. She wants kids. She dates other men. You don't date other women.

She may love you but not being able to have kids is a lot to get over. It flies in the face of the biological imperative.

How old are you? Before the second date you should have told her you do not want any kids. Do you have kids by your first wife?

There seems to be a lot missing in this thread. Has she known you were snipped from the beginning?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> You have gotten yourself snipped. She wants kids. She dates other men. You don't date other women.
> 
> She may love you but not being able to have kids is a lot to get over. It flies in the face of the biological imperative.
> 
> ...


I am curious to know this, too. Because this is the legacy of younger women, that is the belief that men and women can be friends and the relationships are 100% interchangeable with same sex friendships.

Even my fiancé outed himself when he told me that his EA's boyfriend met them both at the airport after their 4 day trip --in which they shared a hotel room. After telling about the trip and his free ride home grace a her boyfriend, he said, I can't believe that she's able to have a boyfriend and just take off with another man.

Really? Um, if you believe that you two were truly just friends, then why would this whole scenario be so difficult to believe.

OP, if you must date only 20 and early 30 somethings, the whole OSF dilemma will most likely be a recurring problem.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Here's an example of what can happen to a man with a vasectomy when he deals with a woman who wants children:

Blunkett's affair started weeks after Quinn's marriage - World - NZ Herald News

It is only near the end of the article that it states that Kimberly's husband tried to get his vasectomy reversed.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Aston

Let us know how the talk goes with her.

You guys are exclusive. After 2 months?

She says she loves you.

But she sure has a funny way of showing it.

I have found in my dating years that professional women (Drs & Lawyers) had a funny view of themselves. They have an inferiority complex.

Most men are inferior to them.

It is engrained into them during their education process.

Not all Drs and & Lawyers but certainly most of the ones I dated.

Just something to think about.

HM


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Aston
> 
> Let us know how the talk goes with her.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Yeah...add a smoking hot body and it's a recipe for disaster.

Luckily he hasn't invested TOO much time into her.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Aston
> 
> Let us know how the talk goes with her.
> 
> ...


Haven't seen her since Thursday but I will see her this Sunday evening. She usually goes to NYC every other weekend to spend time with her mom (aging mom relies on her and brother).
She had also mentioned that her family (hardcore Greeks) would more than likely not approve of us! Mind you I was married to a half Greek Half Italian woman. Another nail there.

When she gets back I'm going to have this conversation. Thursday she went to dinner and a movie with a "friend". Now I haven't asked if it was male or female but it's obvious. It's gonna be an interesting sunday.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

aston said:


> So I've been dating this girl for about two months now and she's very easy going and we have ALOT in common...even down to our tastes and habits. This has been a refresher.
> We did have a small hiccup over my vasectomy (I've been married, divirced wiht two kids etc but she's spent all her life in med school etc and in her mid 30's but still has noncommittal hopes of starting a family etc 50/50 according to her....which I have nothing against). Somehow we found middle ground.
> 
> Now I'm very open minded and I give people a fair shot but I've noticed often (not constantly but very regularly) goes out with male friends (dinner and a movie, or meeting up for dinner) but it's usually not in a group. Different guys she says she's met over the yrs throug grad school, med school etc but 90% of the time it's just her and a guy friend. Occassionally they are in a group but thats usually a rarity.
> ...


I see this as her still dating.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SF-FAN said:


> Point taken but hanging out alone often says that one or the other are looking for more than a friendship.
> 
> 
> 
> It also depends on the frequency of the meetings. Not too often, I can buy the "only friends" rationale, but pretty often, as I mentioned above, one of the parties is looking for more.


People are way too hung up on whether they are hooking up. Indeed that is a problem. BUT it is not the only problem. Dating, which is what she is doing, is about bonding. It is an emotional relationship. Where does a very close and dear friend become an EA? And is it really a different thing at all?

Anyway, the damage to a relationship can occur with this even without PIV sex. But basically there is a very good chance of this. It is just not the only problem.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> It's early in the dating game. Have the two of you agreed to be exclusive?
> 
> My take is that your vasectomy takes you out of the running for a committed, long term relationship in her eyes. She will most likely want children so you are not a good long term option for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. BUT, and I am being blunt here. She may be shopping for a sperm donor. She gets pregnant ... has the child / children and she can still marry the OP.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Agreed. BUT, and I am being blunt here. She may be shopping for a sperm donor. She gets pregnant ... has the child / children and she can still marry the OP.


Well said but she knows full well about my vasectomy


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

aston said:


> Well said but she knows full well about my vasectomy


And this is my point my friend. Surely you did not miss my drift here? You are NOT the sperm donor.

That she is dating other men, and that out of this crowd she will eventually select a donor and have their child. She may or may not marry them. But she could marry you.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

aston said:


> Haven't seen her since Thursday but I will see her this Sunday evening. She usually goes to NYC every other weekend to spend time with her mom (aging mom relies on her and brother).
> She had also mentioned that her family (hardcore Greeks) would more than likely not approve of us! Mind you I was married to a half Greek Half Italian woman. Another nail there.
> 
> When she gets back I'm going to have this conversation. Thursday she went to dinner and a movie with a "friend". Now I haven't asked if it was male or female but it's obvious. It's gonna be an interesting sunday.


I wouldn't have the talk. What are you going to say: 'your actions make me feel weak and insecure'? Guess what? She should already know this. Saying that WILL make you look weak and insecure.

I would line up a date...with someone else. This isn't game playing. I mean, you are in the two month mark. THIS, more than any other time, IS the honeymoon phase. And in a brief two months, she is 

-Dating other men

-Telling you her mom isn't thrilled with you

-Wanting kids KNOWING you have a vasectomy.

So keep seeing her as long as you are getting sex and she is willing (at this point, the pleasure of her attention and a potential future is really off the table), but see the relationship for what it is to avoid getting emotionally hurt.

And if she sees you dating others and asks you about that, simply state with sangfroid that you let her define your relationship and it seems to be an open one. So if she is dating, why is she complaining about you doing the same?

Her obvious retort is 'but they are just friends'.

The retort: "A male friend who you spend alone time with is a date...at least in one of your minds."

The added: "I am not jealous. I am being realistic." might go over nicely.

This MIGHT be the wake up call she needs...but please don't invest any more emotion in this woman until she sends some very clear market signals your way.


Caveat One: She is not treating you badly...but she is treating this as a SELLERS market. Hot, educated, non crazy women are not exactly a common commodity. She feels that she is in charge of the relationship. You need to decide exactly how much you are willing to pay. This is the only important question

Caveat Two: You are also ONLY in the two month mark. She does not know if you are 'The One'. So going nuclear isn't a good idea. Do you think you are getting engaged in the next two months? Do you think SHE is thinking you will be engaged in the next two months? Unlikely!

Treat this realistically: a fun date which MAY go somewhere...but is still an open relationship. The problem seems to be is she seems to want YOU to be exclusive to her but allow HER to hide behind the weasel words "He is just a friend" to justify her dating.

So...make some friends


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Hot, educated, non crazy women are not exactly a common commodity.


We also haven't exactly seen Aston's scorecard. How old are you? Are you in shape? Are you at least as high an earner as she? 

Women aren't hot for older men as older men would like to think. Even my fiancé's EA when she described her boyfriend to my fiancé framed his age -- 11 years older than she (exactly the same age gap that she and my fiancé had) as a negative.
I should also add that her boyfriend was married at the time they met; he may have been officially separated. (His FB wall does not make that clear).

From the e-mails and text messages between them, it appeared that she gotten some therapy as she wrote that "my weight doesn't define me." That sounds like psychobabble to me. and my fiancé noted once in a draft e-mail that he never sent to her that she was pissed that she didn't get the attention that she wanted from guys at the bars.

But she was (and given her latest photo on Facebook must still be) 50 pounds overweight. I can only imagine that a hot, well paid 30 something would think that he could do better than someone who looks already as if she's had 4 kids when she hasn't even gotten started. If her collection of friends on Facebook was any indication, it looked as if she got friendzoned quite a bit herself.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> She had also mentioned that her family (hardcore Greeks) would more than likely not approve of us!


I guess no big fat Greek wedding for you. 

She's already hinting that this relationship won't be going far.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> I wouldn't have the talk. What are you going to say: 'your actions make me feel weak and insecure'? Guess what? She should already know this. Saying that WILL make you look weak and insecure.
> 
> I would line up a date...with someone else. This isn't game playing. I mean, you are in the two month mark. THIS, more than any other time, IS the honeymoon phase. And in a brief two months, she is
> 
> ...


There isn't a single thing in this post I disagree with. I'll point out that the bolded part has not really been established but neither has the opposite.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

If it was this complicated just 2 months in, I would have already left. Why stay, fall in love and get to see what all the other complications are. Sounds as if it's not much fun as well!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Aston

You left out the most important fact.

She is Greek. Her family would rather see her marry her 1st cousin before you or anyone of non-Greek ancestry.

have that convo and go there with her.

HM


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

We still don't know anything about the Op. That's very odd.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> There isn't a single thing in this post I disagree with. I'll point out that the bolded part has not really been established but neither has the opposite.


It was bound to happen eventually


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

JCD said:


> It was bound to happen eventually


I don't always disagree with you. I'm just usually too full of shame to admit it when I agree.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> Aston
> 
> You left out the most important fact.
> 
> ...


'Tis true.

One of my former dates was Greek and her family was running fast to the point where they would have wanted me to go retrieve the golden fleece with Iason and The Argonauts, just to go out with their daughter.

And my mom is from Crete and dad is from Thessaloniki.


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## jac70 (Sep 7, 2013)

********** said:


> If it was this complicated just 2 months in, I would have already left. Why stay, fall in love and get to see what all the other complications are. Sounds as if it's not much fun as well!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> We also haven't exactly seen Aston's scorecard. How old are you? Are you in shape? Are you at least as high an earner as she?
> 
> Women aren't hot for older men as older men would like to think. Even my fiancé's EA when she described her boyfriend to my fiancé framed his age -- 11 years older than she (exactly the same age gap that she and my fiancé had) as a negative.
> I should also add that her boyfriend was married at the time they met; he may have been officially separated. (His FB wall does not make that clear).
> ...


Here's my scorecard:
I'm 6 ft, athletic (played D 1 college sports and still very much in shape)

Have a career that takes me around the world.....42 countries and counting

Raised in Western Europe (U.K. , Netherlands)

I'm 34 yrs old.

Does that help?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Aston
> 
> You left out the most important fact.
> 
> ...


It's interesting how this came up a few times in conversation and her tone is the same. Then she throws me for a loop by saying positions can change. This is just feeling like a relationship cluster*uck!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

aston said:


> It's interesting how this came up a few times in conversation and her tone is the same. Then she throws me for a loop by saying positions can change. This is just feeling like a relationship cluster*uck!


Positions can change=Relationships can end.

At least in my mind.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

aston said:


> It's interesting how this came up a few times in conversation and her tone is the same. Then she throws me for a loop by saying positions can change. This is just feeling like a relationship cluster*uck!


It's true, positions can change. 

It's also true that a nearby star could go super nova and send a gamma ray burst our direction and we'd all be dead before we knew there was anything to worry about.

It's also true that a sink hole could open up under your bedroom in the middle of the night and you'd wake up long enough to say WTF!!! before you suffocate.

Lot's of things can happen. Most are so unlikely they're not worth mentioning.

I would interpret this as saying she wants to keep you dangling on the hook until she makes up her mind what she wants to do with you.

Sleep well tonight.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> It's true, positions can change.
> 
> It's also true that a nearby star could go super nova and send a gamma ray burst our direction and we'd all be dead before we knew there was anything to worry about.
> 
> ...


and that my friend is the definition of a cluster*uck!


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## gpa (Feb 22, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> 'Tis true.
> 
> One of my former dates was Greek and her family was running fast to the point where they would have wanted me to go retrieve the golden fleece with Iason and The Argonauts, just to go out with their daughter.
> 
> And my mom is from Crete and dad is from Thessaloniki.


Really?
So y r a Greek yourself. R'nt y?


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## gpa (Feb 22, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Aston
> 
> You left out the most important fact.
> 
> ...


I don't think that the "cousin" is a problem. Don't even think about it. 
OP has the perfect age for a SBH. He is quite mature and still very young and has the perfect age difference. He is actually very husband material in Greek traditional marriage scheme.
But the vasectomy? Well. THIS is a problem. A very big one.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Aston, it does sound as if you can pull other women. What made you decide to get a vasectomy?


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

Guess 2 months of dating is way too early to consider marriage... Especially after divorce...

And it doesn't look like your new GF thinks she is in exclusive relationship with you.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

What happened to the Sunday talk?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

aston said:


> Here's my scorecard:
> I'm 6 ft, athletic (played D 1 college sports and still very much in shape)
> 
> Have a career that takes me around the world.....42 countries and counting
> ...


Dude,
She ain't got nothing on you.
You want one thing, she doesn't seem to want that , at least not right now.
After all, you have a career that takes you around the world.
Means you have options, many , many options with different types of women etc.
Don't limit yourself to someone who thinks your are just another option in a long list of options.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Aston, it does sound as if you can pull other women. What made you decide to get a vasectomy?


See my post on my vasectomy - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/132034-1-week-post-vesectomy.html#post4963962


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

BobSimmons said:


> What happened to the Sunday talk?


Oh she sent a text saying she'll be in NY till monday (today) so I won't see her till this evening or tomorrow. Keeps getting better.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Aerith said:


> Guess 2 months of dating is way too early to consider marriage... Especially after divorce...
> 
> And it doesn't look like your new GF thinks she is in exclusive relationship with you.


Interestingly she actually brought up the issue that we are exclusive. However the actions don't match the words.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Dude,
> She ain't got nothing on you.
> You want one thing, she doesn't seem to want that , at least not right now.
> After all, you have a career that takes you around the world.
> ...


Oh I know and believe me there are many options. It just happens that when you exercise those options you're a jerk and when you're nice you get *hit on. A part of me also sees it as jsut having the options doesn' mean I exercise them. That's now starting to change with every passing day to be honest.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

aston said:


> Interestingly she actually brought up the issue that we are exclusive. However the actions don't match the words.


I can't argue with that.:iagree:


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

aston said:


> Interestingly she actually brought up the issue that we are exclusive. However the actions don't match the words.


WIN-WIN for her. You get to do the exclusive part, and she gets to keep test driving other dudes.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> WIN-WIN for her. You get to do the exclusive part, and she gets to keep test driving other dudes.


With every one of these experiences you wonder why some men have a have a hard time trusting women. I just find it interesting why women are quick to play the victim role in just about any situation. I'm sure when I have the talk with her she's going to crawl into that role.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> Oh I know and believe me there are many options. It just happens that when you exercise those options you're a jerk and when you're nice you get *hit on. A part of me also sees it as jsut having the options doesn' mean I exercise them. That's now starting to change with every passing day to be honest.


I think it's about even. My fiance likes to use the excuse that he didn't know if I was stilll dating around..... that was the reason that he reconnected with his just a friend ex.

I asked him, so you would rather date a woman who you know is f*cking another man than date a woman whom you can ask what the deal is. 

Still, when I looked for some support, either in IRL or on message boards, I was told in many places that if I kicked up a fuss, that I would look jealous and insecure. I better keep my head down. 

At some point, it hit me, if I see him faithfully without going out with any other guy and he sees his just a friend ex, whether telling me or not, that would make our relationship not significantly different from that of an FWB. 

In other words, I could offer to him that he could continue seeing that just a friend ex while I take time to date other men..... or, he cut all ties with her and I will not look to date other men while we are together.

His response was immediate and we are together now, 2 and half years after that discussion.

So no, it's not different from one sex to the other. People who have a backbone whether man or woman, just don't put up with that "just a friend" facade.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

aston said:


> See my post on my vasectomy - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/life-after-divorce/132034-1-week-post-vesectomy.html#post4963962


I might have missed it, but did you already get the vasectomy? Or are going to get it?

When I was going through my divorce, I wanted to get a vasectomy because it was nearing year end and I had already met most of my deductible. So getting it was mostly covered under insurance.

Anyway, the doctor wanted me to get written consent from my "wife". I explained that we are in the process of getting a divorce. He said he still needs consent.
Oh I was pissed. I explained to him that the divorce is almost over and we are NEVER getting back together and that she has no say so in what I do from here on out.

He let it go trusting that I was in fact getting a divorce, but funny how even in divorce a guy might have to get permission if a doctor is adamant about it.

We apparently have no say so in a wife's reproductive "choice", why should they have it in ours?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> I think it's about even. My fiance likes to use the excuse that he didn't know if I was stilll dating around..... that was the reason that he reconnected with his just a friend ex.
> 
> I asked him, so you would rather date a woman who you know is f*cking another man than date a woman whom you can ask what the deal is.
> 
> ...


I think I'll just lay it all out and possibly end it. It's too much of a headache at this point.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

vellocet said:


> I might have missed it, but did you already get the vasectomy? Or are going to get it?
> 
> When I was going through my divorce, I wanted to get a vasectomy because it was nearing year end and I had already met most of my deductible. So getting it was mostly covered under insurance.
> 
> ...


Oh I got it already! the scariest part for me was smelling burning flesh and seeing smoke LOL. My Dr. being a personal friend is on a first name basis so I'm there asking him "Scott WTF are you doing down there? My balls aren't for you pasta" lol.
WHy would you need an almost ex wifes permission? Maybe you should have brought a copy of the divorce proceedings etc.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

aston said:


> I don't agree. They might "accept" but the acceptance is subjective with a glimmer of hope. We're talking guys here.....it's never really an "acceptance" per se.
> I "accepted" the no hookup zone in the past only to eventually hook up 5, 7 and in one case 10 yrs later (and yes her friends were fair game after the "acceptance" into the friend zone).


I once asked a girl on a date and she wholeheartly said yes. On the drive over she calls and tells me if its ok that her friend come along. Mind you she's 24 at the time and I was hoping for some action. I tell her that I wanted to go just with her and she says "Well we are not having sex so it shouldn't be an issue". I turned around and never called her back. 

In short, unless the guys are flaming gay, most if all men do not go out with women in non-group settings unless sex is a possibility. Sorry to say.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

aston said:


> Oh I got it already! the scariest part for me was smelling burning flesh and seeing smoke LOL.


Oh ya, I remember that, LOL. All I knew is that my sack was on fire and I couldn't feel a thing.

Glad you didn't have to get your "wife" to sign off on it.




> WHy would you need an almost ex wifes permission? Maybe you should have brought a copy of the divorce proceedings etc.


The idea is that if you get a vasectomy, you are denying your wife's "right" to reproduce, even though we have no say in their reproductive "rights".

And even in the even of divorce, I'm sure the doctor doesn't want to have time taken away to testify in the event a vindictive stb X wife wanted to cause trouble.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Sanity said:


> I once asked a girl on a date and she wholeheartly said yes. On the drive over she calls and tells me if its ok that her friend come along. Mind you she's 24 at the time and I was hoping for some action. I tell her that I wanted to go just with her and she says "Well we are not having sex so it shouldn't be an issue". I turned around and never called her back.
> 
> In short, unless the guys are flaming gay, most if all men do not go out with women in non-group settings unless sex is a possibility. Sorry to say.


Lol, dude that is so not true. First of all it depends on how you ask the girl out? If you're trying to get to know her sneakingly under the radar as a friend, then she'll go out with you as a friend. I don't quite get how you asked a girl out, you were hoping to get laid on the first date, were told no sex then you bounced. That was on you.

I've gone out with women just to have a drink and relax as friends. No sex whatsoever. Last time I checked I was not into dude..though I worry about these flaming gays.. their burn insurance must be off the charts.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Sanity said:


> I once asked a girl on a date and she wholeheartly said yes. On the drive over she calls and tells me if its ok that her friend come along. Mind you she's 24 at the time and I was hoping for some action. I tell her that I wanted to go just with her and she says "Well we are not having sex so it shouldn't be an issue". I turned around and never called her back.
> 
> In short, unless the guys are flaming gay, most if all men do not go out with women in non-group settings unless sex is a possibility. Sorry to say.


Very true! I like it when guys try to pull off the whole "we're just friends" thing too cause I sit there and have a laugh.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

BobSimmons said:


> Lol, dude that is so not true. First of all it depends on how you ask the girl out? If you're trying to get to know her sneakingly under the radar as a friend, then she'll go out with you as a friend. I don't quite get how you asked a girl out, you were hoping to get laid on the first date, were told no sex then you bounced. That was on you.
> 
> I've gone out with women just to have a drink and relax as friends. No sex whatsoever. Last time I checked I was not into dude..though I worry about these flaming gays.. their burn insurance must be off the charts.


and the thought of one or more (and I'd dare to say most) of them offering you some action hasn't crossed your mind? Betterstill you'll turn some or more of them down if offered under the right circumstances? Go ahead...lie to me :smthumbup:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sounds like one frank, open conversation is coming up.

What a shame you had to part with $500,000.00 in the divorce.

It makes the burning vasectomy feel like a bargain!


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

So until she gets back are you going NC with her? No texts, no phone calls, to help you separate?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

harrybrown said:


> So until she gets back are you going NC with her? No texts, no phone calls, to help you separate?


We've been very sporadically texting. I think she's got something to say because her texts have been quite distant as have mine. I just want to get this thing over with.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Sounds like one frank, open conversation is coming up.
> 
> What a shame you had to part with $500,000.00 in the divorce.
> 
> It makes the burning vasectomy feel like a bargain!


Yes....vasectomy is definitely a bargain! It has narrowed my dating pool but I'm content with that....gladly so.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

aston said:


> Yes....vasectomy is definitely a bargain! It has narrowed my dating pool but I'm content with that....gladly so.


Good. You piqued my curiosity so I read your other threads.

Your ex was a douche. No offense intended.

I think she is in for an awakening if you haven't seen the signs already. But with a family of "victims" like hers I highly doubt she will ever grow up, get her issues dealt with and be a viable partner in life.

Keep being you. You will find the right gal sooner or later.

Hopefully you are starting to feel the healing and that little voice in the back of your head that keeps whispering " Am I crazy?" Is starting to go away.......

HM


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Good. You piqued my curiosity so I read your other threads.
> 
> Your ex was a douche. No offense intended.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the response and looking at my other posts. The intereresting thins has always been that you try to do the right thing and you get *hit on. Yes society is quick to judge when you get into self preservatiom mode. 
You should have seen how I was treated by some people over my vasectomy, some people made it sound like I was committing genicode. Lost some friends, dating pool shrank by a disproportionately wide marging (which I'm ok with...quality over quantity), and the girl I'm dating now has puzzled me more than anything.

So someone tell me why I should look at any woman with an eye to honesty or take them serious after the last 13 yrs experience with relationships. Maybe it's just me......but experience is teaching me some unpleasant things about the other gender (no offense...just saying).


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I get where you are coming from.

And I can see how your opinion could be jaded by your experiences.

I got screwed over when young and engaged.]

Fortunately I was not married nor had children.

I shied away from the girls for a while but I knew I wanted a girl/woman that had the same values as me.

I dated my wife for 6 years before I married her. We never lived together before marriage.

No divorce on her side. No divorce on my side. Both our parents married over 50 years.

Go figure. But her values have never changed and neither have mine.

There out there. But you have to know what you want and not settle.

So if your current chick tells you the truth I think you know what is coming. 

Don't settle.

You deserve a great woman the 2nd time around. After your Ex at least you know what you don't want.

I can understand a woman wanting kids and that is a dealbreaker for both of you. There is nothing wrong with that.

So keep looking.

HM


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

So she gets back yesterday and we had a very pleasant evening. Great dinner, wine, conversation, Sinatra, and I even had a cigar (which I like about her because she's the only woman I've dated that tolerates my occasional stogie).

No sex but we had a very pleasant evening. I didn't bring up the talk yet because she's going to London this weekend (she leaves tomorrow afternoon) and she will be staying with my brother in Wembley...I don't want to ruin the trip but stirring up conflict yet.

Well this morning I get up earlier than usual since I have meetings with our foreign operations folks (time zone issue). Well I'm in the shower and she walks into the bathroom. As it turns out she decided to look through my phone andsaw messages she deemed inappropriate. So now I'm pissed.....2 months firstly she's talking husband and kids, talking her family not accepting me, running around with other people on dates and now snooping on my phone and accusing me of being inappropriate? I was so flabagasted I didn't even know where to begin!

I swear if she wasn't going to be staying with my brother I'd have ended it today. Especially since she's already shipped her bridal dress etc there.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

aston said:


> So she gets back yesterday and we had a very pleasant evening. Great dinner, wine, conversation, Sinatra, and I even had a cigar (which I like about her because she's the only woman I've dated that tolerates my occasional stogie).
> 
> No sex but we had a very pleasant evening. I didn't bring up the talk yet because she's going to London this weekend (she leaves tomorrow afternoon) and she will be staying with my brother in Wembley...I don't want to ruin the trip but stirring up conflict yet.
> 
> ...


You should have opened your hand and asked for her phone back....

She shipped her dress to the UK. Is she planning on marrying your brother??? 

That might make your life easier.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> You should have opened your hand and asked for her phone back....
> 
> She shipped her dress to the UK. Is she planning on marrying your brother???
> 
> That might make your life easier.


Knowing my brother he would purposely have a 3 way as she's walking in the door just out of spite:rofl:
I took my phone back and she insisted on looking at the messages. Considering she had already looked through them it didn't make a difference but yes I should have simply asked for my phone back and asked her to leave.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

She left herself wide open for you to lay your cards on the table with her. 

When she started giving you grief about the messages on your phone is when you should have told her about her and her "dates" that she has no problem going on. But instead, your more worried about her upcoming trip. Bull $h!t! You should have laid it on the line about her going out with these guys and threw it back in her face. 

If she's sending her wedding gown to your brothers house, I think you better sit her down real quick and tell her what's on your mind before it's too late. You gotta set up some boundaries for her and let her know that these casual dates with guys have to come to a stop or she can send the wedding gown back and get her money back. Quit playing games and hash this thing out now.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

aston said:


> Knowing my brother he would purposely have a 3 way as she's walking in the door just out of spite:rofl:
> I took my phone back and she insisted on looking at the messages. Considering she had already looked through them it didn't make a difference but yes I should have simply asked for my phone back and asked her to leave.


Have you looked through her phone at all????


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> Have you looked through her phone at all????


No but you know what I'm putting an end to this nonesense ASAP. It's come too far.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

6301 said:


> She left herself wide open for you to lay your cards on the table with her.
> 
> When she started giving you grief about the messages on your phone is when you should have told her about her and her "dates" that she has no problem going on. But instead, your more worried about her upcoming trip. Bull $h!t! You should have laid it on the line about her going out with these guys and threw it back in her face.
> 
> If she's sending her wedding gown to your brothers house, I think you better sit her down real quick and tell her what's on your mind before it's too late. You gotta set up some boundaries for her and let her know that these casual dates with guys have to come to a stop or she can send the wedding gown back and get her money back. Quit playing games and hash this thing out now.


This is true. I should have just nipped it in the bud. She surely ambushed me in the shower but never again. Putting an end to this today.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good for you.

She can console herself with a never ending parade of dinner & movie nights with her male friends......


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> Well this morning I get up earlier than usual since I have meetings with our foreign operations folks (time zone issue). Well I'm in the shower and she walks into the bathroom. As it turns out she decided to look through my phone andsaw messages she deemed inappropriate. So now I'm pissed.....2 months firstly she's talking husband and kids, talking her family not accepting me, running around with other people on dates and now snooping on my phone and accusing me of being inappropriate? I was so flabagasted I didn't even know where to begin!


This is an example of something I find very fascinating about people like this.... their sense of entitlement.

My fiance's EA apparently saw nothing wrong with asking about the sex life of another woman (in this case me) and making health comparisons between herself and me when she had that information (ie oh well, even though I'm 29 and have to get tested for diabetes, cholesterol and be seen by a nephrologist (liver specialist), at least it's not cancer........)

When my (future) fiance came clean of his other activites, he inadvertently sent me her e-mail address. And I sent her an e-mail, that is, forwarding to her some cinema tickets that my fiance sent me to prove that we were indeed going on another date. In my mind I thought I was doing her a favor as I couldn't possibly understand how she could have a boyfriend AND take a trip with my fiance. It could be that my future fiance was macking her as well. So I just wrote, "perhaps you and your boyfriend could make use of these tickets."

oh dear, the text messages between them. How inappropriate. how psycho for someone more than 20 years older than she. Fortunately, I had my info and I asked my fiance, how is that any more psycho than some woman that I have never met asking about my sex life....... and based on that, advising you to drop me when she doesn't even know the whole story between us........

In other words, Aston, if this woman is going to make decisions and behave in ways as if she is all knowing and all entitled...... with no sense of proportion or empathy for other people.......


ummmm do you really want to have to deal with that???????


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Confused about the wedding gown.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

********** said:


> Confused about the wedding gown.



Yah, me too. And why is she staying with your brother? Is this a wedding gown just handed to her or is she already planning a wedding with someone?


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

aston said:


> So she gets back yesterday and we had a very pleasant evening. Great dinner, wine, conversation, Sinatra, and I even had a cigar (which I like about her because she's the only woman I've dated that tolerates my occasional stogie).
> 
> No sex but we had a very pleasant evening. I didn't bring up the talk yet because she's going to London this weekend (she leaves tomorrow afternoon) and she will be staying with my brother in Wembley...I don't want to ruin the trip but stirring up conflict yet.
> 
> ...


Did I miss a memo? Bridal dress? You've been dating two months.

You need to take this as a learning experience. Next time a girlfriend (IF you drop Ms. Hot and Fresh) takes a look at your phone, demand hers back. She will spin out some BS about how she hasn't done anything to warrant that intrusion so you say you haven't either and since YOUR phone is open, hers is too.

Also...better boundaries in acceptable behavior. 'Nipping in the bud' seems an operative term which you just keep failing at. Get a pruner.

Additionally...Hot and Fresh whomever (not just her) tends to have a sense of entitlement. Maybe drop down a point or two in desirability to find someone who is less likely to feel extra dates isn't your business and is 'perfectly acceptable...for me.'

I think that you have rather naïve sense of male female interactions: that there is never ANY lying deception, game playing, or manipulation going on in a marriage. That, IMO, is BS. Even the primmest and most devoted wife will dangle, cut off, change things and emphasize things in specific ways to get the proper reaction from YOU. What is proper? What she wants.

Men do it too...though they tend to be a bit more ham handed in implementation.

I recall an article I read where some woman HATED their cheap disgusting kitchen table from hubby's bachelor days. So she took him on the table...hard...until it broke. She got her new table and he got a smile on his face.

Another wife I know personally used to toss an onion in the microwave if she was slow on making dinner so hubby would not ask her questions she didn't want to answer about dinner. It saved her grief, and she was a very moral woman.

That is what you are facing and need to be able to identify. People play games for their own satisfaction. You need to make sure you are getting fair trade and identify when you are being jerked around.

You were slow on the switch here in a very basic moral dilemma. Granted, if I saw the right set of 'headlights' I would probably be a bit 'dazzled' too...but instead of just quitting on women or filing them all under 'liars', get the game...and start playing. Or at least stop being played.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

aston said:


> So she gets back yesterday and we had a very pleasant evening. Great dinner, wine, conversation, Sinatra, *and I even had a cigar *


Was that a hand rolled Cuban_ Romeo y Julieta?_

Sorry couldn't help it, yep, most women hate the smell of Cigars.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> This is an example of something I find very fascinating about people like this.... their sense of entitlement.
> 
> My fiance's EA apparently saw nothing wrong with asking about the sex life of another woman (in this case me) and making health comparisons between herself and me when she had that information (ie oh well, even though I'm 29 and have to get tested for diabetes, cholesterol and be seen by a nephrologist (liver specialist), at least it's not cancer........)
> 
> ...


No I don't, hence ending things before it gets too complicated.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

********** said:


> Confused about the wedding gown.


She is attending a wedding in London for a friend of hers (who lives and works there). She's in the bridal party. 
Most of my family lives in Western Europe (UK, Netherlands) hence her staying at my brothers house in London instead of paying for an expensive hotel.

Thats the reason for her bridal party gown at my brothers place. Shipped ahead of her friends wedding so she doesn't have to lug it through TSA etc.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Yah, me too. And why is she staying with your brother? Is this a wedding gown just handed to her or is she already planning a wedding with someone?


No she's in a wedding party as a bridal maid....ya know the group of women dressed in similar clothing to support the bride lol


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> Was that a hand rolled Cuban_ Romeo y Julieta?_
> 
> Sorry couldn't help it, yep, most women hate the smell of Cigars.


Rocky Patel  :smthumbup:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

JCD said:


> Did I miss a memo? Bridal dress? You've been dating two months.
> 
> You need to take this as a learning experience. Next time a girlfriend (IF you drop Ms. Hot and Fresh) takes a look at your phone, demand hers back. She will spin out some BS about how she hasn't done anything to warrant that intrusion so you say you haven't either and since YOUR phone is open, hers is too.
> 
> ...


Reality check :iagree:


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What did she actually ask you in the shower ?

Maybe bring it up to her on why she thought she should look at your messages. Would be interesting to notice her reaction.

Was she satisfied with your answers ??


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> What did she actually ask you in the shower ?
> 
> Maybe bring it up to her on why she thought she should look at your messages. Would be interesting to notice her reaction.
> 
> Was she satisfied with your answers ??


No she wasn't, and I was 30 minutes late for work!  . For me it's simple, I've never given her reason to worry or doubt..if anything I'm the one that should be worried and for good reason.
That she even decided to look at my phone to me means she has trust issues there which she could have addressed with me directly without spying on my phone. Unacceptable to just snoop on my phone. I'm sure she wouldn't have told me she looked at my phone if I had it locked or wiped all my messaging. I've been very open with her is why I'm livid.
I also think sometimes when people are up to no good, they become suspiciously irrational...if you know what I mean.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

She's going to London for a wedding. And she's in the bridal party. And you're 5,000 miles away. And she's hot. And there will be English men there.

And how distraught she'll be that she caught you in this behavior just before she left. She'll need comforting. And those English accents...

I'm just having fun with you. The hot bridesmaid doesn't ALWAYS get laid. Even if she DID catch you in this inappropriate texting just before she left.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

MrK said:


> She's going to London for a wedding. And she's in the bridal party. And you're 5,000 miles away. And she's hot. And there will be English men there.
> 
> And how distraught she'll be that she caught you in this behavior just before she left. She'll need comforting. And those English accents...
> 
> I'm just having fun with you. The hot bridesmaid doesn't ALWAYS get laid. Even if she DID catch you in this inappropriate texting just before she left.


I think I'm just going to end things before it gets overly complicated.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

MrK said:


> She's going to London for a wedding. And she's in the bridal party. And you're 5,000 miles away. And she's hot. And there will be English men there.
> 
> And how distraught she'll be that she caught you in this behavior just before she left. She'll need comforting. And those English accents...
> 
> I'm just having fun with you. The hot bridesmaid doesn't ALWAYS get laid. Even if she DID catch you in this inappropriate texting just before she left.


Just watch 4 Weddings and a Funeral to see what she's getting up to:

Unrequited Love (Four Weddings and a Funeral, 1994) - YouTube


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Shes a user. Plain and simple. 

Go home early and pack her sh!t in garbage bags and tell her you want her gone. Tell her she is a hypocrite for spying on your phone and giving you grief while she goes out with other men playing ariound and probably throwing her legs up for them.

What a piece of work.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

aston said:


> No she wasn't, and I was 30 minutes late for work!  . For me it's simple, I've never given her reason to worry or doubt..if anything I'm the one that should be worried and for good reason.
> That she even decided to look at my phone to me means she has trust issues there which she could have addressed with me directly without spying on my phone. Unacceptable to just snoop on my phone. I'm sure she wouldn't have told me she looked at my phone if I had it locked or wiped all my messaging. I've been very open with her is why I'm livid.
> I also think sometimes when people are up to no good, they become suspiciously irrational...if you know what I mean.


I understand what you mean..

But I also think you are acting a bit on the paranoid side of things(Only based on things you posted about her. We haven't interacted with her in person like you did to tell anything more ). Some of the posts are't helping either. She could be a selfish person with misplaced boundaries or a scumbag cheater. Too little information to make an educated guess.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Become one of those male "friends" who she goes out with, and probably makes out with. Let her be someone else's problem.

Problem solved. Next.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

verpin zal said:


> Become one of those male "friends" who she goes out with, and probably makes out with. Let her be someone else's problem.
> 
> Problem solved. Next.


Just make sure you use a condom.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Why are you suffering with this? The longer it goes on, the harder it will be to get your answer. Give her a call in the UK or wherever she is and let her know that your pissed that she made accusations that were unwarranted and ask her why she can go to dinner and movies with other guys and not think a thing about it. 

Give her a chance to answer the questions and LISTEN TO HER ANSWERS. her answers will tell you everything. At least you can have a clear mind because if it's not this thing with her being in a wedding it will be something else.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Did she pick a fight so she could feel better about banging a couple different guys while she is there without you? Who knows? Why care?

This relationship doesn't sound healthy.

I'd bail before I was writing a new thread... New WIFE always going out with Male Friends.

Your future with her is being shown to you now. Is that what you want?


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think she might be a cheater and is projecting her own actions upon you. That's why she is checking your phone. checking up on you etc.

Wanna bet she's having sex with at least one of these guys she meets up with.

Let me guess, she pushed for being exclusive too right? Ironically cheaters hate being cheated on.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

workindad said:


> *Did she pick a fight so she could feel better about banging a couple different guys while she is there without you? *Who knows? Why care?
> 
> This relationship doesn't sound healthy.
> 
> ...


I think this is the case. These days my antenna is very attuned to criticism and you have to be confident within yourself to decide whether the criticism has merit or you're just being set up.

In the early days with my (future) fiance, we had settled in to the habit that I would regularly spend from Friday to Sunday afternoon together at his place.

My fiance's a nerd and not a good housekeeper. I finally decided to just start tidying up around his place. I realise that everyone (like my mother) can have very specific ideas to what a "clean" kitchen looks like. But on this occasion I just put dishes in the dishwashing, washed the pots and pans and wiped up the surfaces.

Do you know that by the evening he had nerve to call me to tell me that I had not cleaned up his kitchen enough. I was unapologetic and told him that it was cleaner than before I started and he should be thankful for that. What I didn't say but thought was, that "just a friend ex" of yours is never coming back over here (he said out of their dating for 6 months, she only came over once and at that point she had a bf of her own), let alone be disposed to doing some housework for him.

Knowing now how much he likes that feisty behavior, I'm sure I gave him stiffy while we were talking. And I still do believe since he was in contact with her at that point, that he was consciously comparing us and should the opportunity arise, have reasons available as to why I am, in his opinion, less suitable for him than the other one is.

I know some people will say that when friends give constructive criticism I should listen because they're just trying to be helpful, but one must always look at the context in which it is given and whether it really has any merit.

These days my fiance tells me regularly how much better his life is with me in it.


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## TheFlood117 (Mar 24, 2013)

Yeah. Break up... Like yesterday.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Shes a user. Plain and simple.
> 
> Go home early and pack her sh!t in garbage bags and tell her you want her gone. Tell her she is a hypocrite for spying on your phone and giving you grief while she goes out with other men playing ariound and probably throwing her legs up for them.
> 
> What a piece of work.


We did not communicate yesterday but I've decided to put an end to it. No going back.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

workindad said:


> Did she pick a fight so she could feel better about banging a couple different guys while she is there without you? Who knows? Why care?
> 
> This relationship doesn't sound healthy.
> 
> ...


Oh my you are like the 10th person to say this and it makes alot of sense! Why randomly would a person in a 2 month relationship behave like that and suddenly decide to start snooping?


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> I think she might be a cheater and is projecting her own actions upon you. That's why she is checking your phone. checking up on you etc.
> 
> Wanna bet she's having sex with at least one of these guys she meets up with.
> 
> Let me guess, she pushed for being exclusive too right? Ironically cheaters hate being cheated on.


Yes she was the one who pushed/emphasized exclusivity. It's also interesting because my ex wife did the same thing only to find out many years later she was still communicating with her ex (whose nickname was interestingly "Jigsy") LOL


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

aston said:


> Yes she was the one who pushed/emphasized exclusivity. It's also interesting because my ex wife did the same thing only to find out many years later she was still communicating with her ex (whose nickname was interestingly "Jigsy") LOL


She collects commitments to her.

It was also a test to see how easy you would cave. M betting you agreed straight off, no resistance.

She then had you looked down, while she continued whatever she was already dong.

That also gave her a tool to use by threatening to take exclusivity away.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> She collects commitments to her.
> 
> It was also a test to see how easy you would cave. M betting you agreed straight off, no resistance.
> 
> ...


Correct on all counts. I've decided to end it so whichever way the pendulum swings from here on makes no difference to me. I just feel like a sucker since I actually put in the effort. My time is my most valuable asset.....I put in my time, energy, money etc and got *hit on. I see a woman now and all I see is manupulation. No offense just saying.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

QFT




Shaggy said:


> She collects commitments to her.
> 
> It was also a test to see how easy you would cave. M betting you agreed straight off, no resistance.
> 
> ...


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> QFT


what does QFT mean?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

aston said:


> what does QFT mean?


Quoted For Truth, or Quite F'ing True. Take your pick. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

PBear said:


> Quoted For Truth, or Quite F'ing True. Take your pick.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll take the latter :lol:


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> Correct on all counts. I've decided to end it so whichever way the pendulum swings from here on makes no difference to me. I just feel like a sucker since I actually put in the effort. My time is my most valuable asset.....I put in my time, energy, money etc and got *hit on. I see a woman now and all I see is manupulation. No offense just saying.


Two months isn't that long at least. and it's not like you blew it or nearly blew with someone you realised later on was better.

I still wonder why my fiance went through all that charade his EA. Did he like the competition? He told me that she even compared him unfavorably to the other she was dating....... as if I am going to think, oh yeah, she's safe. 

Let us know if you have any new developments. It contributes to the overall body of knowledge here.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Don't break up with her until after the wedding. She'll screw your brother just to get back at you.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

MrK said:


> Don't break up with her until after the wedding. She'll screw your brother just to get back at you.


Knowing my brother he will not only let me know but would probably get it on tape.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> Two months isn't that long at least. and it's not like you blew it or nearly blew with someone you realised later on was better.
> 
> I still wonder why my fiance went through all that charade his EA. Did he like the competition? He told me that she even compared him unfavorably to the other she was dating....... as if I am going to think, oh yeah, she's safe.
> 
> Let us know if you have any new developments. It contributes to the overall body of knowledge here.


Will keep you posted.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

aston said:


> No she wasn't, and I was 30 minutes late for work!  . For me it's simple, I've never given her reason to worry or doubt..if anything I'm the one that should be worried and for good reason.
> That she even decided to look at my phone to me means she has trust issues there which she could have addressed with me directly without spying on my phone. Unacceptable to just snoop on my phone. I'm sure she wouldn't have told me she looked at my phone if I had it locked or wiped all my messaging. I've been very open with her is why I'm livid.
> I also think sometimes when people are up to no good, they become suspiciously irrational...if you know what I mean.



You know what this sounds like to me? She's guilty of something (maybe there's a reason she spent an extra day in NYC?) and she's feeling extremely guilty about it. Therefore, she snooped through your phone with hopes beyond hopes that she would find something in there. And she did! Texts that SHE deemed inappropriate with other girls! NOW, she doesn't have to feel so guilty about what she did, "You know what? I was feeling bad about screwing the entire New York Jets team. But, now that I see that he's chatting it up with a girl! Well. screw that! I'm glad I did!"

She found a way to forgive herself.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

crossbar said:


> You know what this sounds like to me? She's guilty of something (maybe there's a reason she spent an extra day in NYC?) and she's feeling extremely guilty about it. Therefore, she snooped through your phone with hopes beyond hopes that she would find something in there. And she did! Texts that SHE deemed inappropriate with other girls! NOW, she doesn't have to feel so guilty about what she did, "You know what? I was feeling bad about screwing the entire New York Jets team. But, now that I see that he's chatting it up with a girl! Well. screw that! I'm glad I did!"
> 
> She found a way to forgive herself.


Wow! talk about transference! and with that I'm very sure she will deny it even if one of the guys tatto'd his social security number on her butt! No offense just sayin...


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Aston, you've only been dating her two months. Your'e not engaged, you're not married. You two are _just dating_. Just tell her it's not working for you and you're breaking it off. Short and sweet. You don't have to give her any long exposition as to why. 

You're not a sucker. You're just a decent guy who picks winners. You need to go talk to a counselor, someone who can give you objective feedback as to why you pick these daisies to go out with.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Aston, you've only been dating her two months. Your'e not engaged, you're not married. You two are _just dating_. Just tell her it's not working for you and you're breaking it off. Short and sweet. You don't have to give her any long exposition as to why.
> 
> You're not a sucker. You're just a decent guy who picks winners. You need to go talk to a counselor, someone who can give you objective feedback as to why you pick these daisies to go out with.


I broke it off tonight....of course she went up and down about how it's all my fault She's shocked etc and how I need professional help etc. The text messaging won't stop either!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Well, this is a little late into the game, but here it goes.

First, never ascribe to others that they are evil and/or stupid to explain their actions. It won't get you very far.

So I got to ask...what was in those texts which had her worked up. YOU think they are nothing. SHE doesn't. I am not saying she is right, but she isn't making this up most likely. She has a POV not based on evil or stupid. It might be WRONG, but within her POV, it's rational.

Second, Latin/Mediterranean women tend to be...ahem...snoops. They also tend toward histrionics in communication. It shows they care. So these 'fights' are to show that you are valued. She likes you enough to get angry with you. I know these are stereotypes, but there you are.

Third, I think she is overplaying her hand. "See how many men want me? YOU lucky fellow have me...but don't you dare take me for granted." She is not reading men correctly and their aversion to sharing women even tacitly. We would rather share gum out of another person's mouth.

Because this is in the infancy stages, this is how the game is played.

You just grabbed hand if you decide to R with her. Now YOU made a statement of value.

Or keep walking away. I think there is a little 'stupid' and arrogance in her character if she thought this was acceptable.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

aston said:


> I broke it off tonight....of course she went up and down about how it's all my fault She's shocked etc and how I need professional help etc.


This^^^ was the part I liked best,, when I was dating.
When you served them and they got caught off guard and didn't know what to say, hence the gibberish.

She always thought she had you under her wings.

Just look at this as one of life's lessons and move on as quickly as you can, and put some distance between you both.

She might try to get revenge.
Remember revenge only works if you pay her attention.
Ignoring her tantrums will neutralize the effect.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> This^^^ was the part I liked best,, when I was dating.
> When you served them and they got caught off guard and didn't know what to say, hence the gibberish.
> 
> She always thought she had you under her wings.
> ...


Exactly! I'm ignoring it and honestly it stings a bit but will dissipate over time.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

JCD said:


> Well, this is a little late into the game, but here it goes.
> 
> First, never ascribe to others that they are evil and/or stupid to explain their actions. It won't get you very far.
> 
> ...


Where you're from is no excuse to act irrational. What was in those texts? Does it matter? If she found nothing on my phone would she tell me she spied on me? Oh by the way I called her out on her going out with other guys and she alluded to the fact that she's "no angel" herself. So what does it matter what was on my phone?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

And she says you need professional help???

She is no angel. 

Send her a text that you will make sure your next GF is a psychiatrist.

Just kidding.

Glad you dumped her. She needed it. All the schooling in the world cannot make a person grow up.

HM


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## adv (Feb 26, 2011)

One thing I've found after coming out of an eighteen year relationship/marriage, is that women are very available and looking for a good man. Especially if you have a good career, personality, etc...

I think you did the right thing by dropping all that drama and moving on clean. After all, it was only two months of dating. Beautiful women (physically and personally) are everywhere and dating is just like an interview process so you can weed out those that aren't compatible with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

aston said:


> Where you're from is no excuse to act irrational. What was in those texts? Does it matter? If she found nothing on my phone would she tell me she spied on me? Oh by the way I called her out on her going out with other guys and she alluded to the fact that she's "no angel" herself. So what does it matter what was on my phone?


Sorry...I was just watching Richard Gere doing a 'Tapdance' while watching 'Chicago'.

What did you just say? 

Hey, I am not trying to probe into your stuff. I don't CARE about your texts. I CARE that she cares about the texts.

There are only three ways it can go:

1) she is crazy/guilty/stupid/evil.

2) this is a cultural thing for her. 

3) there is a valid concern on her part *even if wrong.*

If she THINKS there was a valid concern...do you see where she might be a trifle less invested in the relationship and...oh...I don't know...keep her options open? Go on other dates? Like I told you about HER actions: if she isn't that invested, you don't get invested. So YOU get to date too. She says the texts are inappropriate. She has a reason (in her mind) to be less invested.

This would be a conversation you should have with her...IF you try to fix things. At this point, there is not much benefit to it. That ship has pretty much sailed...though I wonder at the contents of the texts she is sending you.

I am not trying to pry in your stuff. I am doing a post mortem at this point.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> And she says you need professional help???
> 
> She is no angel.
> 
> ...


That might encourage her to specialise in psychiatry herself to win him back.

Dangerous move.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

It matters about the content of the texts because at face value, sending inappropriate texts to women is far worse than going out with a male friend.

You can't complain about your gf doing something that has dangers of becoming inappropriate, when you yourself are doing things that ARE inappropriate, getting sympathy for you regarding her actions, yet you won't even discuss them with her??? Allowing posters to paint her as some kind of prostitute, and yet all she has done is what many single women do (go out with their many friends, some of them male), and hasn't given that up yet because you are only together 2 months and you have not even talked to her about it. 

I have never seen a thread that has so many inconsistencies in it and where so many posters ignore a very important point and continue to support you in ignorance of that point....

Were you sending inappropriate texts? If so, good job she looked at them and realised you were not someone to have a relationship with. And if her answer was 'I am no angel', good job you have dumped her....though, maybe you 2 actually fit well together. Both engage in inappropriate behaviour while in a relationship!


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> And she says you need professional help???
> 
> She is no angel.
> 
> ...


She's a Dr. a Psychologist.


----------



## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

adv said:


> One thing I've found after coming out of an eighteen year relationship/marriage, is that women are very available and looking for a good man. Especially if you have a good career, personality, etc...
> 
> I think you did the right thing by dropping all that drama and moving on clean. After all, it was only two months of dating. Beautiful women (physically and personally) are everywhere and dating is just like an interview process so you can weed out those that aren't compatible with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I had to drop the drama...glad I did. More things came out and I made a very good decision after all.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> That might encourage her to specialise in psychiatry herself to win him back.
> 
> Dangerous move.



She's a head doctor - A Psychologist.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Remains said:


> It matters about the content of the texts because at face value, sending inappropriate texts to women is far worse than going out with a male friend.
> 
> You can't complain about your gf doing something that has dangers of becoming inappropriate, when you yourself are doing things that ARE inappropriate, getting sympathy for you regarding her actions, yet you won't even discuss them with her??? Allowing posters to paint her as some kind of prostitute, and yet all she has done is what many single women do (go out with their many friends, some of them male), and hasn't given that up yet because you are only together 2 months and you have not even talked to her about it.
> 
> ...


Firstly, there's no excuse for invation of privacy and adults should have the decency to engage their partner if they have any concerns. I had never given her reason to worry or doubt anything. She gave me reason by going out with other guys (dinner here, movie there) but I did not go snooping on her phone. Given we only been dating for 2 months, out of respect I was focused on giving her reasons to put me over the other guys she was spending time with. She brought up exclusivity and I delivered on my end of the bargain.

Secondly, the content of the text messages were grossly taken out of context by her. I didn't have naked pictures or anything explicit. I have friends who talk about THEIR escapades so what I can't banter with close friends over their lives? If your friend engages in sexually devious behavior does that make you a deviant too? I laid out my entire history to her and up until she snooped on me she only reciprocated in bits and pieces. Her reason was that she's not sure, she's shy, she's taking her time, one reason after another. So I don't buy that BS about what was in the text, she had NO reson to snoop on me given her being forthcoming and meeting me halfway was lacking at best. 

If you took the time to read through the entire thread you will have a better idea of whats going on here. That you even make an excuse or justify such actions makes your inferrence questionable at best.

Inform yourself before pontificating.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

I did read the entire thread.

I was just wondering why you never took the time to discuss with her your concerns. And why you were not forthcoming in the content of the texts she was upset about.

I find it odd that people are ready to hammer her for inappropriateness, yet there was no dealing with her actions. And an ignoring of you having inappropriate texts. She read them on your phone....and you refused to disclose. Sounded rather like double standards to me.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Remains said:


> I did read the entire thread.
> 
> I was just wondering why you never took the time to discuss with her your concerns. And why you were not forthcoming in the content of the texts she was upset about.
> 
> I find it odd that people are ready to hammer her for inappropriateness, yet there was no dealing with her actions. And an ignoring of you having inappropriate texts. She read them on your phone....and you refused to disclose. Sounded rather like double standards to me.


I don't think you read the entire thread from your above statements. What concerns do I have to discuss with her? Her actions during 8 weeks of dating? Did you read the part where she told me they were just friends (guy friends) she was getting together with (after me asking, not information people just volunteer right)?

On being forthcoming on the texts, I think you need to read the entire thread again or at the bare minimum my initial response to your message. You talk about double standards yet you sit there justifying unacceptable behavior on spying on someones phone while saying I should have discussed my concerns with her (which by the way I did and prompted her "Just friends" response...if you truly read the entire thread). Does that apply to her as well?

Again....inform yourself.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

aston said:


> I have friends who talk about THEIR escapades so what I can't banter with close friends over their lives?


As long as neither of you are in a committed relationship, it's ok. But if either is, opposite sex discussions like this are a slippery slope to EA and/or PA. I know this from experience. Please keep that in mind when you do find "the one" and respect boundaries.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

yeah_right said:


> As long as neither of you are in a committed relationship, it's ok. But if either is, opposite sex discussions like this are a slippery slope to EA and/or PA. I know this from experience. Please keep that in mind when you do find "the one" and respect boundaries.


These are guy friends by the way....not members of the opposite sex. One is named "Tracy" and I actually offered to put the person on the phone. "Guy talk".....thats all it was.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> I don't think you read the entire thread from your above statements. What concerns do I have to discuss with her? Her actions during 8 weeks of dating? Did you read the part where she told me they were just friends (guy friends) she was getting together with (after me asking, not information people just volunteer right)?
> 
> On being forthcoming on the texts, I think you need to read the entire thread again or at the bare minimum my initial response to your message. You talk about double standards yet you site there justifying unacceptable behavior on spying on someones phone while saying I should have discussed my concerns with her *(which by the way I did and prompted her "Just friends" response..*.if you tryly read the entire thread). Does that apply to her as well?
> 
> Again....inform yourself.


This reminds me of conversations that you have with paid therapists(who are not your friends and that you never otherwise know, kind of like the other posters here (except they don't get paid......). They ask:"Did you make yourself clear?" and you answer for the umpteenth time "Yes, I did." (b!tch, implicit)

Funny, they never ask, "what EXACTLY did you say so" that they can make an informed decision.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

aston said:


> These are guy friends by the way....not members of the opposite sex. One is named "Tracy" and I actually offered to put the person on the phone. "Guy talk".....thats all it was.


She didn't know that when she went ballistic.

As far as the privacy thing...you will not find many people who buy into that here. We have many Betrayed Spouses here...and guess what? Their spouses ALSO cited this idea of privacy.

Now...you weren't married, so that changes things...but you WERE exclusive.

Was she dating AFTER the exclusive talk? And frankly, yes, I think there is a clear double standard.

First, she is expecting her 'just friends' to absolve her of blatant insensitivity even if what she says is true and they were 'just friends'. That is a double standard on YOU.

YOU would not be comfortable with her doing sexy talk about your relationships with her 'friends'...but you are doing something similar with your friends. She made a few assumptions about gender and if YOU were reciprocating. And for some reason, I don't believe you aren't accepting female 'sexy talk' about their relationships. Men love when that stuff happens to them. Why do I believe this? Because the minute I brought up the subject, you got cagey and defensive as hell.

But frankly, SHE was the more direct person. When she saw a behavior she didn't like (the texts) she told you directly as soon as it happened. She didn't sit there and worry for months. She told you directly she didn't like it.

Take a lesson from that.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> This reminds me of conversations that you have with paid therapists(who are not your friends and that you never otherwise know, kind of like the other posters here (except they don't get paid......). They ask:"Did you make yourself clear?" and you answer for the umpteenth time "Yes, I did." (b!tch, implicit)
> 
> Funny, they never ask, "what EXACTLY did you say so" that they can make an informed decision.


:smthumbup:


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

JCD said:


> She didn't know that when she went ballistic.
> 
> As far as the privacy thing...you will not find many people who buy into that here. We have many Betrayed Spouses here...and guess what? Their spouses ALSO cited this idea of privacy.
> 
> ...


We weren't even discussing our relationship. My boys were discussing theirs. Nothing to be defensive about. I raised my concerns wiht her over her guy friends hence her "just friends" response. So yes I was DIRECT with her from the ONSET.
You mean to tell me your friends (same gender) don't share some of their experiences with you? go ahead...lie to me.

Lastly, after I broke things off to her she did admit (as I mentioned earlier) that she's "no angel" either, and never disputed when I brought up my earlier concerns and her continued behavior which continued AFTER she brought up exclusivity.
If you're female I KNOW females share certain details about their escapades because I was married for 8 years. Same with men....we discuss certain things among each other. Just because my ex wife discussed certain things with her friends didn't mean she was out doing the same things. 

The point being: guilt is what sometimes make people act preemptively irrational. I called out her actions and she DID NOT DISPUTE IT!
Point made!


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

What's going to happen when she returns? Does she have things at your place? My advice is to pack them up and take them to her place and be done with her. I have a feeling that she's not done yet.


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## SoulStorm (Jul 17, 2012)

aston said:


> We weren't even discussing our relationship. My boys were discussing theirs. Nothing to be defensive about. I raised my concerns wiht her over her guy friends hence her "just friends" response. So yes I was DIRECT with her from the ONSET.
> You mean to tell me your friends (same gender) don't share some of their experiences with you? go ahead...lie to me.
> 
> Lastly, after I broke things off to her she did admit (as I mentioned earlier) that she's "no angel" either, and never disputed when I brought up my earlier concerns and her continued behavior which continued AFTER she brought up exclusivity.
> ...



Yeah, a Dr with a smoking hot body going out on a "date/s" with guys she calls "just friends" definitely isn't innocent. "just friends" is code for Just F'ing" She knows they want her and hey, aston isn't here right now so I can have a little fun until he gets here.

Her guilt played her out though. She wanted you to be exclusive because she was guilty of not being so.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

6301 said:


> What's going to happen when she returns? Does she have things at your place? My advice is to pack them up and take them to her place and be done with her. I have a feeling that she's not done yet.


I already did, left them at her door, I also canceled her staying at my brothers place in London. She can find her own accomodation.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

SoulStorm said:


> Yeah, a Dr with a smoking hot body going out on a "date/s" with guys she calls "just friends" definitely isn't innocent. "just friends" is code for Just F'ing" She knows they want her and hey, aston isn't here right now so I can have a little fun until he gets here.
> 
> Her guilt played her out though. She wanted you to be exclusive because she was guilty of not being so.


Exactly! Eating her cake and having it, to which she did not deny and stressed that she's aware she's "not an angel".


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

SoulStorm said:


> Yeah, a Dr with a smoking hot body going out on a "date/s" with guys she calls "just friends" definitely isn't innocent. "just friends" is code for Just F'ing" She knows they want her and hey, aston isn't here right now so I can have a little fun until he gets here.
> 
> Her guilt played her out though. She wanted you to be exclusive because she was guilty of not being so.


SHE might have thought they were not dates...or perhaps she was lying to herself. Her "no angel' comment could be taken a lot of different ways. Maybe she knew she was playing with fire by putting herself in that position. Maybe she was actually screwing.

No idea.

It is over.

I would say that once the concerns were voiced by him, he should have started dating for the reasons I outlined earlier.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Bottom line: You're not comfortable with it and she is.

=

Difference of opinions and boundaries.

Move on. 

There's nothing to see here, folks.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

aston said:


> Very well said and I appreciate the bluntness. We did discuss exclusivity but* the actions don't match the conversation*. So confusing.


Like I said, move on.

There is nothing confusing here. You just want to front like it's confusing because you like her and want to give her a pass. But the thing is, she has already shown you she's ok with it and you aren't. 

That's it.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

JCD said:


> SHE might have thought they were not dates...or perhaps she was lying to herself. Her "no angel' comment could be taken a lot of different ways. Maybe she knew she was playing with fire by putting herself in that position. Maybe she was actually screwing.
> 
> No idea.
> 
> ...


HA! OK any woman who thinks a guy spending an evening with her having dinner or seeing a movie is not a date is either blissfully ignorant or....blissfully ignorant. Women know these things and the mere idea of playing it off as just friends I belive is an insult to anyones intelligence. More than one guy for that matter. Especially if you're with a guy who is vasectomized and you stressed you want kids in the future (unless he considers vasectomy reversal) and the possibility of your family not accepting your relationship. 
I'm sorry but no I think she was playing the field. I'm glad it's over.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

aston said:


> Exactly! Eating her cake and having it, to which she did not deny and stressed that she's aware she's "not an angel".


It was very nice of her to show you who she really was rather quickly. Tell her thank you for confirming your suspicions. Good show. 

Good move tossing her back into the pond.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Like I said, move on.
> 
> There is nothing confusing here. You just want to front like it's confusing because you like her and want to give her a pass. But the thing is, she has already shown you she's ok with it and you aren't.
> 
> That's it.


JB! I did want to give her a pass initially and to be honest a part of me wanted to give her reason to put me above the other guys given what I had to offer. Then again it's what it is. Over, moving on.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Like I said, move on.
> 
> There is nothing confusing here. You just want to front like it's confusing because you like her and want to give her a pass. But the thing is, she has already shown you she's ok with it and you aren't.
> 
> That's it.


Agree. 14 pages already, when you had your answer on the 1st page of this thread.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> It was very nice of her to show you who she really was rather quickly. Tell her thank you for confirming your suspicions. Good show.
> 
> Good move tossing her back into the pond.


The Irony and I'm going to quote one of her texts here "I'm no angel I know, you are the one who put me on a pedestal". I guess I shouldn't have expected much...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

aston said:


> JB! I did want to give her a pass initially and to be honest a part of me wanted to give her reason to put me above the other guys given what I had to offer. Then again it's what it is. Over, moving on.


Sometimes when we like people, we do stupid things (like letting them have a pass over dumb sh!t we would normally never tolerate). Normal. 



thunderstruck said:


> Agree. 14 pages already, when you had your answer on the 1st page of this thread.


Yep!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

aston said:


> The Irony and I'm going to quote one of her texts here "I'm no angel I know, you are the one who put me on a pedestal". I guess I shouldn't have expected much...


I wouldn't even bother responding to that if I were you.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

aston said:


> Exactly! Eating her cake and having it, to which she did not deny and stressed that she's aware she's "not an angel".


So, I guess my "transference" post wasn't too far off the mark. 

And she actually blamed you for putting her on a pedestal?!?! That's the excuse she's using?!?! I would have texted back, "Oh look how the mighty have fallen."


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

crossbar said:


> So, I guess my "transference" post wasn't too far off the mark.
> 
> And she actually blamed you for putting her on a pedestal?!?! That's the excuse she's using?!?! I would have texted back, "Oh look how the mighty have fallen."


Yes you were correct on the "transference". Over and done with.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Just move on. It seems to me that in addition to the subterfuge on her part, there was simply not enough positive chemistry between the two of you to have sustained anything. 

And a problem with psychs like her is that most of them are too smart by half. All that book knowledge and yet clueless how to apply what they have learned to their own lives. 

They do however, have enough of a window into the human psyche to learn how to manipulate people, and I think that is what she was doing with you.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Just move on. It seems to me that in addition to the subterfuge on her part, there was simply not enough positive chemistry between the two of you to have sustained anything.
> 
> And a problem with psychs like her is that most of them are too smart by half. All that book knowledge and yet clueless how to apply what they have learned to their own lives.
> 
> They do however, have enough of a window into the human psyche to learn how to manipulate people, and I think that is what she was doing with you.


True...it was always something though. The way I communicated or I was too direct or I had to phrase things a certain way or look at her a certain way when talking etc. It was just a relationship cluster*uck. It's done and over with. Moving on.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

aston said:


> True...it was always something though. The way I communicated or I was too direct or I had to phrase things a certain way or look at her a certain way when talking etc. It was just a relationship cluster*uck. It's done and over with. Moving on.


So you were suppose to walk on eggshells while she keeps you in a holding pattern as plan B while she plays the field. 

Fvck her. Delete her number. Move on. Move on and make it fast.

Too many truly nice decent woman around than to have to stress yourself dealing with a entitled pain in the a$$ like that. 

NEXT!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> So you were suppose to walk on eggshells while she keeps you in a holding pattern as plan B while she plays the field.
> 
> Fvck her. Delete her number. Move on. Move on and make it fast.
> 
> ...


It was the same with my fiance and his EA. He went in for a kiss with her (just after he closed a 3 figure bar tab for her and her friends) she rejected him.

Then she had a sense that he was turning away from her -- he refused to make plans with her for the follwoing weekend until he made them with me , as per the text messages. So she accused him of leading her on even as he knew -- and she knew that he knew -- that she was f&cking some other guy. 

That sense of entitlement with 20 something women is just astounding.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

*Aston:*

You have decided to disengage from a serious relationship with this woman. Logical decision.

Now, let me ask you something: *If you have crossed that Rubicon already, why not be a little devious, desist from clearly disclosing this to her, continue to be vague about your disengagement, and enjoy her sexual favours as long as they last?* Meanwhile, you could explore other relationships too.

(If you can manage your emotions well enough, i.e.)



Later on, when she finds out / you yourself disclose this to her, you might add:* “I am not an angel either. It was YOU who thought I was weak enough to accept a unilaterally exclusive relationship with you. The truth is, for a long time now, I have also been seeing you just as a sex buddy, just like all those other men you seem to like. No hard feelings, I hope.”*

THAT would be payback in kind. And I would say her sense of entitlement deserves this sort of a payback. *It will help her in the long run too, in a backhanded way, to reassess her cross-gender attitudes. And it will help you erase any latent shame of being strung along.*

*But I guess you are not as shallow a human being I am, to execute such a plan.*



I KNOW this is a bad suggestion. But I am out of good suggestions of late. And bad seems to work quite well in today’s world.


All said and done, it seems as though *it was YOU who assessed her LTR value wrongly. She was just being herself, *and if you didn’t like it, you could go watch Chasing Amy again.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

aston said:


> HA! OK any woman who thinks a guy spending an evening with her having dinner or seeing a movie is not a date is either blissfully ignorant or....blissfully ignorant. Women know these things and the mere idea of playing it off as just friends I belive is an insult to anyones intelligence. More than one guy for that matter. Especially if you're with a guy who is vasectomized and you stressed you want kids in the future (unless he considers vasectomy reversal) and the possibility of your family not accepting your relationship.
> I'm sorry but no I think she was playing the field. I'm glad it's over.


You forget exactly what women are being taught these days. They (try to) genuinely believe that friendships between the sexes are as simple, carefree and non judgmental as going out shopping with a girlfriend. 

Now, yes, this is, IMO BS. You generally find some 20ish year old girl lamenting how she can't have the 'player' life that men enjoy without taking the reputation hit.

They want to be able to 'pal around' with their guy friends while having a steady monogamous relationship (God Forbid if a man tries that on her, however).

This is the Age of Female Emancipation. This is not just wishful thinking and denial (never underestimate the power of denial. We have a lot of posters urgently trying to convince themselves that those marks on their wives are 'mosquito bites' or that her showering when coming home is normal).

Her having boy...friends is a political statement of independence of your Patriarchal restrictions. She is an independent contractor...who wants to have a steady date with you on Fridays (you pay)

This is NOT to dismiss her actions or to villainize her as some Feminist shrew. I see this attitude of pushing for freedom from a LOT of young women these days, desperately telling themselves that what they are doing is okay...even as their common sense knows that it is not. They WANT it to be okay and will talk at LENGTH justifying these choices.

But it isn't, as she found out.

So, yeah, maybe she is playing the field. Maybe she was making a statement. Maybe she was sh!t testing you. Maybe she was seeing if you were 'secure enough' whatever that means, to allow her her freedom.

Lots of room for these theories and they are not mutually exclusive.

Here is how you have a friend relationship with an opposite gender person: invite YOUR wife/gf/mother along when you go see her, or SHE brings her spouse/bf/mother/sister along with her.

That's pretty much it. Only write texts you are willing to show your spouse immediately.

Not rocket science...and obviously not psychology either.


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## Stronger-now (Oct 31, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> You know she is going to the movie, right? well slip in to the same movie in the back row when it is dark and wait and watch. If it is a 9:05 movie, then wait until 9:10 to buy your ticket and walk in. She won't see you or be in the back row, if she is in the back row, you already have your answer.


No disrespect, but this is just downright creepy. The new girlfriend is not his ex wife, she hasn't given him a reason not to trust her. If he is not comfortable with her going out solo with her buddies, then he needs to talk to her. If they can't come to a compromise and this is a dealbreaker to him, there you go. But creeping into the back row of a cinema just to stalk your new girlfriend because you have trust issues with women is just not right.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

aston said:


> Am I crazy or something seems "off"?


Your girlfriend is dating other men.

Yes, something is off.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Stronger-now said:


> No disrespect, but this is just downright creepy. The new girlfriend is not his ex wife, she hasn't given him a reason not to trust her. If he is not comfortable with her going out solo with her buddies, then he needs to talk to her. If they can't come to a compromise and this is a dealbreaker to him, there you go. But creeping into the back row of a cinema just to stalk your new girlfriend because you have trust issues with women is just not right.


Yes that is creepy. But what is even creepier is his (exclusive) girlfriend in a cinema with another man friend. That is way more creepier - especially since she was the one behaving oddly about him possible seeing other women.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

JCD, your last post is spot on.

I'd also add that these types of women buy into the belief that they're just friends with these guys that they start advising them on their dating life, to the point where they feel justified in telling the guy to drop the woman (women) that they're dating on whatever flimsy excuse that they can think of.

Some men buy into this as well thinking their female just a friend is just giving friendly advice. As well as accusing any woman that he is dating who has a problem with their "friend" as jealous and insecure. 

I think it can take months or years for some guys to realise that they're not going to be able to keep a girlfriend until they get rid of the female friend.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> JCD, your last post is spot on.
> 
> I'd also add that these types of women buy into the belief that they're just friends with these guys that they start advising them on their dating life, to the point where they feel justified in telling the guy to drop the woman (women) that they're dating on whatever flimsy excuse that they can think of.
> 
> ...


well said. almost a week post breakin things off and feeling good. saw her on my way to work this moring. Waved and kept driving.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

aston said:


> well said. almost a week post breakin things off and feeling good. saw her on my way to work this moring. Waved and kept driving.


You might be surprised at her reaction to this, especially if you smiled when you waved. You're upping your value with this display.

ETA: She may try to add you to her stable of on call lovers. Rejecting her booty calls if she tries will raise your value higher. In the meantime find a new GF.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> You might be surprised at her reaction to this, especially if you smiled when you waved. You're upping your value with this display.


:iagree:

I bet she calls you before the weekend.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

tom67 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I bet she calls you before the weekend.


I think she will. She was on the phone and waved back.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> You might be surprised at her reaction to this, especially if you smiled when you waved. You're upping your value with this display.
> 
> ETA: She may try to add you to her stable of on call lovers. Rejecting her booty calls if she tries will raise your value higher. In the meantime find a new GF.


Oh I'm totally NOT going for that. I'm not one of those guys that just falls for that old game.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Nucking Futs said:


> You might be surprised at her reaction to this, especially if you smiled when you waved. You're upping your value with this display.
> 
> ETA: She may try to add you to her stable of on call lovers. *Rejecting her booty calls if she tries will raise your value higher.* In the meantime find a new GF.



No I think they will be more _foodie_ calls, and your treat, whether you like it or not.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

I would resist any urge to text her back if she texts or talk to her if she phones. 
Being ignored p*sses people off more than anything and she's used to, sorry, expects the attention of men. 
You still might have leftover warmies for her. I think she got under your skin somewhat. Otherwise you would have told her to get lost immediately. Therefore a booty call might do you more harm than good. 
I'd be shutting the door firmly on this one. 
Couldn't believe what you said about her criticising you. . . only 2 months dating? You never even had a honeymoon period. 
I feel sorry for the poor sucker who marries her!


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

********** said:


> I would resist any urge to text her back if she texts or talk to her if she phones.
> Being ignored p*sses people off more than anything and she's used to, sorry, expects the attention of men.
> You still might have leftover warmies for her. I think she got under your skin somewhat. Otherwise you would have told her to get lost immediately. Therefore a booty call might do you more harm than good.
> I'd be shutting the door firmly on this one.
> ...


Now now! Let's not go too far.

Aston wasn't The One. Who knows why? Maybe she lacked The Spark. Maybe family opposition was too great. Maybe the kid thing was a deal breaker, perhaps unconscious.

Aston is a great guy. He was not a great guy *for her.* However, she found more than enough value with him to share large quantities of her time with him.

So you chalk that up as an ego rub, make sure your boxers are snug and you don't fall for the 'other friends' crap again.

The girl who DOES have The Spark with you won't want to date other guys.

But seriously...two months is sort of rushing on the exclusive thing.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

********** said:


> I would resist any urge to text her back if she texts or talk to her if she phones.
> Being ignored p*sses people off more than anything and she's used to, sorry, expects the attention of men.
> You still might have leftover warmies for her. I think she got under your skin somewhat. Otherwise you would have told her to get lost immediately. Therefore a booty call might do you more harm than good.
> I'd be shutting the door firmly on this one.
> ...


Yes the ink is dried on this one. Just ammended the trip to Amsterdam to one ( I had planned it for two). Anyways.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It sounds like you made a clean break with her, so that's good.

Just to give you an idea of what you missed (so you won't look back).......

I finally decided to have a look at these e-mail and FB accounts that my (future) fiance was leaving open because my gut was telling me somthing.

So I finally initiated a conversation with him. I told him that I knew that her 30 b-day was at the end of the month, do you plan to go IF you are invited. ( I really think that she put him in the one down position).

He said immediately, "before this conversation, I would have gone. But now that we are discussing it, I would ask you your opinion." Oh, dear.

What did happen was that on the sAturday that we decided to go to the beach (an all day activity), her boyfriend sent my fiance an invitation on that day of the party at 1pm through FB. "You're more than welcome to join us......." As if, everyone else had been invited just an hour beforehand.

By the time we got home that evening, after 11pm, he showed me that message in FB and then the text message that SHE sent him at 11pm (mind you the closing time of that pub and most other pubs on London) which said (verbatim) "Why didn't you come?" 

A female friend of mine and I came to the conclusion that they were fishing around for someone to close the bar tab (my fiance had in the past proved that he was good for that). 

My fiance never expressed strong feeling about that situation which I guess is normal when you are still in the fog / feeling that you have a great investment in the relationship but know that you shouldn't.

In any case, you don't want to gain a reputation with any woman for being the clean up guy to her social activities.

Despite the fact that women like me are considered jealous and insecure about these types of relationships, men have a lot to lose by them as well.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I wouldn't even bother responding to that if I were you.


Maybe he should respond

"I think you need a really good psychologist. Look in the mirror and start talking. That Dr. Looking back at you is the only one who will believe your bullsh!t."


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

JCD said:


> The girl who DOES have The Spark with you won't want to date other guys.


I fully agree with this^^^.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

aston said:


> Yes the ink is dried on this one. Just ammended the trip to Amsterdam to one ( I had planned it for two). Anyways.


A fantastic city, I lived there for a while. The social life is terrific, the natives are very friendly and all speak Engreesh.  

You just had a narrow escape. Phew! 

Next time, if you are not asked along if your lady is meeting up with a male friend, you will know what to do. Come to think of it, I don't know many women who do that. If I was doing it, my man would DEFINITELY be invited. 

You were luckier than me though. My WS forgot to even tell me he was meeting his lady friend.:rofl: Alzheimers I suppose. 

Don't forget to send a postcard to TAM.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> I fully agree with this^^^.


Amen! I dodged a bullet to be honest...thats how I feel about the whole thing at the moment.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

********** said:


> A fantastic city, I lived there for a while. The social life is terrific, the natives are very friendly and all speak Engreesh.
> 
> You just had a narrow escape. Phew!
> 
> ...


Yes it's an amazing place. I spent a large part of my childhood not too far from there in Utrecht. Here I was planning to show her my old stomping grounds.....dodged that bullet lol.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

NextTimeAround said:


> It sounds like you made a clean break with her, so that's good.
> 
> 
> In any case, you don't want to gain a reputation with any woman for being the clean up guy to her social activities.
> ...


To your point - in 6 - 8 weeks of dating she only offered to pay for anything 4 times namely;

My Birthday
She spilled oil on my shirt and bought me a replacement..wrong fit
Weekend in Providence I paid the lion share and "floated" the idea of her paying for the toll and a couple of meals
Ice cream treat since I didn't have change and she had some cash

Figures..


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Eh.....

Chalk it up to experience and move on. 

There are alot of fish in the sea. Alot.


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Eh.....
> 
> Chalk it up to experience and move on.
> 
> There are alot of fish in the sea. Alot.


Yup, and this Mako is about to go hunting :smthumbup:


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Interesting. You struck me as being more of a happy dolphin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aston (Oct 24, 2011)

LostViking said:


> Interesting. You struck me as being more of a happy dolphin.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


HAHA Dolphins are too nice lol


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Actually I saw a video of a group of dolphins attacking a great white. They went at it like a pack of wolves and tore it to pieces.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

LostViking said:


> Actually I saw a video of a group of dolphins attacking a great white. They went at it like a pack of wolves and tore it to pieces.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Tv Theme Flipper - YouTube

Sorry childhood flasback


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

aston said:


> To your point - in 6 - 8 weeks of dating she only offered to pay for anything 4 times namely;
> 
> My Birthday
> She spilled oil on my shirt and bought me a replacement..wrong fit
> ...


Wonder how much she pays even for herself when she goes out with her male friends. 

One of the things that motivated me to have a word with my (future) fiance was finding receipts and credit card statements that a painted a picture of his underwriting his "outings" --they were just friends so of course it wasn't a date-- with his EA at a time when he was hassling me to pay for stuff when we went out. I really hit the roof to read in text messages how he had offered her cab fare -- when she was dating another guy.

Perhaps you guys can enlighten me here but a woman with a pretty face, a big belly, a snarky attitude and who shares your love for heavy metal and indie bands. Can that really be enough to let a relationship get out of control? (ETA: he claims the sex wasn't that great between them and she told him that the new guy was better in bed than he.)

And also, guys, c'mon, does the relative amount of money that you spend on a woman suggest where stands in the pecking order in his social/ personal life?


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

aston said:


> Yup, and this Mako is about to go hunting





LostViking said:


> Interesting. You struck me as being more of a happy dolphin.





aston said:


> HAHA Dolphins are too nice lol



*eventually, evolve as a Fugu.*

Best of luck.


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