# Wife, cheated. I don't know what to do.



## Zak082 (Jun 21, 2015)

I will try to keep this short. My wife and I have been married for 4 years. We married young (19 and 17) due to her being pregnant. We had already planned on getting married anyways. 
After our second child I got my wife a job at best buy where i worked. I left there to go to another job and she stayed. When I left she started coming home later back in February. She said she had to stay late now because of more responsibility at work. Come to find out in May I discovered one day while dropping by work late that she actually had been meeting up with a guy we both knew from work.
Every night before going home she would drive to a theater parking lot near by and meet with him. I discovered 3 months worth of sexting between them two on her phone. It hit me like a truck because she showed ZERO signs that she was unhappy in the marriage. When I busted her she told me that they would meet up at the theater to make out and talk about work. She said they always made out but the sexting I read made it seem like they did more. She said they did oral on each other twice and had sex one time behind their work in his car. 
This DOES NOT sound like the woman I married. She hated people and had no friends. She was sheltered as a kid and is SUPER shy with people. In fact I'm her first boyfriend, kiss, sex, husband, everything. She has only ever had me in her life. We are both super big in church and both christians. We don't even have friends of the opposite sex. She has been an amazing mother and like I said she NEVER showed any signs of her being unhappy. It didn't make sense how she could do this.
When I asked her why she did it her original answer was that he started telling her how beautiful she was and she liked it. So then he asked her to meet up with him one night so she did (which is not like her AT ALL, she wont even go to the gas station by herself during the day) and she said after 4 meet ups HE kissed her and then thats when it snowballed out of control. 
I just don't understand. The sexting and the pictures she sent him without him EVER sending her one just shocks me. She said things in those texts that she NEVER has said to me.
Now its been 3 months and we have been seperated. I filed for divorce but a part of me wants to believe we can work. Yet I know I just can't get over this whole cheating situation. I have been cheated on by past girlfriends and I have no tolerance for it. She has been very sorry and has been THE PERFECT wife for the past 3 months. She has done a complete 180. I don't know which to believe. The wife who is perfect like she is right now or the one that cheated on me for 3 months and come home to me and our kids and acted like everything was fine.
Please help me see clearer to see if this is something I need to get away from or if by some chance I should stay with her. I go soon to sign the divorce papers and I don't know what to do. I'm scared of being alone and that down the road I might regret my decision.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Zak082 said:


> *I asked her to quit and she said no* because we needed the money. Just last week she finally got a better job so she is leaving it now. Also I told everyone in the family about it, which probably wasn't the best idea. All of my friends and family know and her family knows.


Well there you go.

You really don't need two (much less three) different threads. I'd suggest keeping this one and deleting the thread over in the General forum.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

I would sign the papers and run. The fact you saw no signs and she was able to do this with no regrets and able to lie to you without hesitation. You have been trickle truthed. She had nasty porn star sex with him. Everything she would not do with you she did with him and more.

How many nights did she come home after giving him oral....swallowing and then giving you a kiss. How many times did you go down on her after he had his penis down there and 95% sure unprotected sex. 

She got off on humiliating you, and if you did not catch her she would still be to this day screwing him. Divorce her and after it is all said and done and she can prove to you she has changed the start dating again. She killed the marriage you have now.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You are both very very young and it is likely your wife was curious and is too immature to be married. What she has done is terrible and I am sorry that you find yourself in this position. If she can be so devious then it does not auger well for any long term future with her. I would go ahead with the divorce, you are young enough to start over again.
Make sure you get a lawyer so that you are covered, sort out the arrangement for the children, support, visiting rights, etc. It is good that you told everyone, of course she is pissed about it as it exposes her behaviour. You will also need them all on your side. She actually might need help. Get yourself some counselling.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You have posted the same thing in two different sections - I gave you my response in the posting in General Relationships.

You should have the two threads merged here. Contact a moderator.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Sex 1 time? Come on, adults don't sit in a car to make out. She was giving this guy the porn star treatment. Everything that she turned you down for she gave enthusiastically. Super Christians? Dude she didn't give a crap about church, your kids or the marriage when she was banging this POS. 

She's playing nice because now she's facing single momhood. She knows POS doesn't want divorcee with someone else's kids. She was your virgin high school sweet heart. Had kids from her first. That's beautiful thing but she through it away to be some dudes sex toy.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Your gut is right....do not tolerate cheating.

Continue with the D and rid yourself of this traitor.

Make sure the A is exposed to all friends and family so the blame for the failed M is not switched back onto you....you do not want misinformed friends/family teaching your child that you are a POS who caused the D.

And this turd OM knew you?

I think I would be having some 'words' with him about destroying my child's family if I were you....hope his dental insurance is up to date.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

terrence4159 said:


> I would sign the papers and run. The fact you saw no signs and she was able to do this with no regrets and able to lie to you without hesitation. You have been trickle truthed. She had nasty porn star sex with him. Everything she would not do with you she did with him and more.
> 
> How many nights did she come home after giving him oral....swallowing and then giving you a kiss. How many times did you go down on her after he had his penis down there and 95% sure unprotected sex.
> 
> She got off on humiliating you, and if you did not catch her she would still be to this day screwing him. Divorce her and after it is all said and done and she can prove to you she has changed the start dating again. She killed the marriage you have now.


She probably did not get off on humiliating either her husband or, by extension, their children.

How so? Because it's likely she was giving no thought to them at all when she was with her lover.

OP have you two had marital counselling? Spoken with your pastor?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

Zak, I disagree strongly with everyone that's responded to this thread with the exception of MattMatt above. While I'm not interested in indicting those that I disagree with, as they're not on this forum to waste anyone's time and as such have good intentions, I don't think the quick rush to judgment about your wife's motives and divorce is advised. Clearly, she cheated on you, but having had it done to me in the past, I can tell you that as crazy as it may sound at first blush, it's possible for your spouse to love you while they commit adultery. The immediate (and not blameworthy) reaction is, "well that's nuts -- if he/she loved me, they wouldn't do this". But the problem with this line of rationale is that it attempts to make the infidelity about you when, honestly, it has nothing to do with you in as much as its origins and why it exists. Yes, it affects you, so in that sense it has everything to do with you and how you feel about yourself, your spouse, and your life in general, but where it comes from has nothing to do with you. 

In my post here, I am not interested in giving power to excuses that an adulterer could use and wave around like a flag and say, "see? I'm not responsible", because clear sense tells us that people are responsible for their own actions. No. What I am telling you here is that there are reasons -- easily identifiable and clear reasons -- on why people do this sort of thing. People have illicit affairs like this and engage in what otherwise looks like outlandish behaviour to people like us not because of a lack of experience, or a desire to disrespect their spouse, or anything like that, but because they have a giant hole inside of them when it comes to their own vulnerability and their refusal to address it. These people that do this stuff usually feel like they're worthless, even if it's masked well and even if you have no idea. For this kind of conduct, it doesn't just have to be done out of pure malice or sheer disrespect of others. It can be and is usually about a past trauma that left the individual feeling like they can never have real intimacy because they're paralyzed by a fear (real or imagined) that says they could never get close to anybody because.. I'm un-lovable. And when someone feels like that, they will seek illicit means to achieve this insatiable desire for intimacy in ways that they thought they never would. And in doing so, they skirt around the real ways to have intimacy with a spouse -- through being vulnerable, confessing their secrets to one another, and allowing one to know the other fully. With affairs, a person can go around all of that and not have to do the hard work. They can have their cake and eat it too. Just as a side note: I bet if you asked her if her sexual contact with this man was good, she'd probably say no, if she hasn't already offered that up. 

What the previous posters have here concerning lack of tolerance of infidelity, protecting one's self, and demanding the respect of your spouse, they are 100% spot-on about. However, I don't think it's wise to just throw everything in the trash just yet. In a situation like this, you have to be the bigger person and you have to be willing to *forgive*. None of us stand on a podium of perfection and have the absolute right to condemn others as if we've never done anything wrong. What you have to do here Zak is this: Re-establish your position as husband, proclaim that you have a *right* to know exactly what happened (because you do, Zak; you are not a bystander in this), and threaten an ultimatum that if the pertinent details are not forthcoming, then you will file for divorce. If she concedes to that, then demand that changes be made in behaviour in terms of accountability. From here on out, both of you (notice I said both and not just you) have the right to be accountable to one another as married spouses, knowing where each other is at all times, having access to each other's phones, passwords, and everything else un-restricted that would otherwise allow for the opportunity for impropriety to occur. If she doesn't agree, then disengage and leave, as you'll be justified in doing so. If she does agree, then continue.

From here, if she is truly remorseful, contrite, and looking for you to forgive her, then forgive her, unconditionally, as impossible as it might seem right now. Forgiving someone for something they've done, all the way from small to incalculably large, doesn't depend on somebody else's behaviour. You just do it. It will allow you the ability to release the weight of her actions against you and place them back on to her where she's responsible. The thing here to keep in mind is that you didn't make her do anything. Nobody makes anybody else do something, or perform an action, or feel a certain way. They choose it all on their own. Sure, sometimes those things affect others (like in this case), but we don't make anybody else do anything they don't already want to do. So, you are no to blame. Do not allow yourself to be sucked down into that pit of despair, looking for reasons to rationalize how you're the one who's at the heart of this, or why you didn't do this or that, or why you did too much of this or that. It's all baloney and you didn't make her do anything. She chose it. And in this process of forgiving her, that responsibility will be placed back upon her shoulders and re-iterate that it's up to her to own it and do something about it. 

For a long time, you will be suspicious. You will knee-jerk. You will suffer from PTSD. But you will eventually get over it. Your wife, if she's looking for real reconciliation (R), then you must show her how she hurt you, even though your instinctual reaction will be to go into self-preservation mode and stay angry and resentful. You can't if you want to have any chance at R. She has to see it. You have to cry. You have to scream. You have to have fire in your eyes and she must see all of this. She needs to see that she doesn't have the right to do this sort of thing to you, that you're a real human being, that her actions have affected you badly, and that she must make right on that. 

I agree with MattMatt's suggestion of marriage counseling (MC). It is advisable. Probably advisable on her part to go to individual counseling (IC) and might not be a bad idea for you. But in the end, it will be better.

You will mourn the death of what you thought your marriage was. It's just like mourning a person's death. You're mourning here instead of the idea of what you thought she was. You'll be in shock over the revelation that yes, she too, is a real human being, and isn't perfect. Allow it to help you see her as real and put any idyllic idea you've had of her to death. 

Confess any wrong-doings against her. Wash your hands clean of them so you can raise issue with what she's done with clear conscience. Then, despite her adultery, allow her the opportunity to forgive you as you ask for it. 

Do not allow her adultery to be the defining event in your marriage like a ship hitting an iceberg while it slowly sinks to the depths. Allow it to be the catalyst between to good people, who love each other, and who want the best for one another, to bring light to the truth about both of you and allow it to propel your marriage to a better place than where it was. 

For the record Zak, it will get better. I am one of those success stories, living and breathing in real-life, that's been through every bit of the what-appears-to-be life ripping apart tumult. It took me quite a while to settle from it all, but I can say that my marriage now is better than it was before.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your response is fair and very Christian in that we should forgive. However if the wife doesn't have any remorse, can be this devious how do you know this poor guy will not be hit with more of her selfish and destructive behaviour. I would suggest they separate, both go for counselling and then see where that leaves them. Asking him to forgive and start over with her now is a bit premature especially when she is exactly the same person she was 3 months ago, she can put on a good show, but how long will that last?


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## whiteviper (Aug 8, 2015)

@Symajhi, dude that's one strong kool aid i don't even know where to begin


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Whether you choose to reconcile is a personal choice, just as she chose an affair. Some people will immediately want to reconcile, while others can not do it for infidelity. I do believe that most relationships can be fixed, if both parties work to fix the problems, but it must start with the offending party confessing their transgression and being contrite for the things they have done. If you reconcile, you also need to let her know directly that this is a one time offer, so if she values this relationship, she needs to give it her all. Any relapse, half-truth or contact with OM will be immediate reason to go to divorce, no questions asked. Additionally, there has to be open communication between you two, no passwords for media or devices. I agree with Matt, most people cannot navigate these waters by themselves and need a counselor to help right the ship and get them back on course. There is certainly a risk that you could be hurt further if she is not sincere in her actions, the question them becomes, do you think she is worth the risk? If she appears to be truthful about what happen and her actions match her words, then she is probably a good risk. If she leaves you with more questions than answers, then you may want to cut your losses.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Zak082 said:


> *She said they always made out but the sexting I read made it seem like they did more*. She said they did oral on each other twice and had sex one time behind their work in his car.


She is minimizing, they always do.

she and OM has most likely did a lot more.

you said it yourself, that reading the sexting made it seem like they did more, that's because they did.

If you try and R you deserve the whole truth.

this may be hard to get, maybe with the threat of a polygraph you might get more info, and this is trickle truth and it sucks.

How much exposure did you do?

did the Om have a girlfriend or wife?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

whiteviper said:


> @Symajhi, dude that's one strong kool aid i don't even know where to begin


That is actually quite insulting to a thoughtful post...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

She quits her job or you divorce her. That's my opinion.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

ButtPunch said:


> She quits her job or you divorce her. That's my opinion.


i second this. if she wants you to be together she must change jobs?

she will see him each day.

rules of priority
Partner & Family first, Work is second.

separated? did you leave the Effin house? do not leave the effin house do you hear me! lord pls dont leave the house.
you will lose divorce case if you leave the house!

do not ever leave the family home till the divorce is over!


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

aine said:


> Your response is fair and very Christian in that we should forgive. However if the wife doesn't have any remorse, can be this devious how do you know this poor guy will not be hit with more of her selfish and destructive behaviour. I would suggest they separate, both go for counselling and then see where that leaves them. Asking him to forgive and start over with her now is a bit premature especially when she is exactly the same person she was 3 months ago, she can put on a good show, but how long will that last?


We don't know Aine, just like I didn't know. I was too busy being consumed by my own devastation as I suspect Zak is. Since some marriages are worth salvaging, and since some people are worth it, it's why I suggest he choose to forgive and trust her but demand a change in behaviour by both of them being accountable to one another. Make each other's phones, passwords, and time accessible to one another without inhibition. Also, she needs to change jobs and break contact with the other gentleman (I'm not sure if that's happened already or not). If she's sincere about it, he will see positive changes in her behaviour along with a willingness to make things right.


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> That is actually quite insulting to a thoughtful post...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's the Internet, MattMatt. I've gotten used to it. :wink2:


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

ButtPunch said:


> She quits her job or you divorce her. That's my opinion.


As part of a larger regimen of behavioural change, yes.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

As a former chaplain and pastor I would say you have every right as a Christian to divorce her, without regret, without guilt, without even attempting R, MC or anything else. She committed adultery, period end of story.

If you decide to R that is an option.

Forgiveness is something you are required to do as a Christian. I would suggest that this may take some time. Forgiveness does not require you to take her back. Forgiveness does not require that you overlook what she has done. Forgiveness does not require that she does not face the consequences of her actions.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

If she was able to pull this off and leave you clueless and never once seeing any kind of red flags then how do you know that her turn around and now the perfect wife isn't just another ploy.

Best way to play this is your gut feeling. You said you were cheated on in other relationships and have no tolerance for it and then the added sending pictures to the cheating, if it was me, then I end it. 

She caused the problem. She knew right from wrong, good from bad and saw the red flag warnings and she didn't stop. Her problem. She bought it. She owns it.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

this case has a high chance of divorce-

for one that fact that you discovered the affair, and not through her confessing

and this is not a ONS affair.

its a full blown EA/PA - Emotional and Passionate Affair.

Wife has already checked out of marriage.

its not yet a 5 year marriage? you can still get pretty limited spousal support from this.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

She's not ready to be married. She got pregnant and married at 17 without so much as a handshake from anyone else. You at least had girlfriends, she had nothing. 

I get that cheating triggers everyone here and it is wrong, but you simply can't hold a kid to the same standards as a mature adult. They haven't the coping skills of an adult, so when combined with no experience it's not surprising that she'd like the attention from someone else. 

It's nothing you did wrong, it's her not being ready to be married. You can try to make it work if you want but I don't think it will get any better as you guys older. She'll only obsess more about how little she's experienced as she gets older. That's why it's so important to get that stuff out of your system before you get married.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

whiteviper said:


> @Symajhi, dude that's one strong kool aid i don't even know where to begin


This sh!t just isn't black and white.. 

There is only so much you can post on a forum and in text to get a point across..

Once a drunk, always a drunk, Once a drug addict, always a drug addict... Once a cheater, always a cheater ?

People can change.. IF THEY WANT TO... 

Being a cop 25 years.. I can tell you I know guys that spent 10 to 15 years and jail and never went back and have kept themselves clean ever since..

These forums are great.. The people here are great.. But not everyone here is right ( including myself ) and not everyone here has the right answers all the time..

Look for me divorce has been great.. Granted I have my issues but it's been good for me.. Any man here would want to be divorce wise.. 

But I would be lying if there wasn't a small part of me that regrets the way things turned out and realize it didn't have to turn out this way..

But again beyond some issues I have a GF that crushes my Ex wife in every department excluding the cheating.. 

It hurts to say it, but being that this is her first everything is part of the issue I think.. 

But lets not kid ourselves here.. This young man is working at best buy with 2 kids.. Unless he mentioned he is studying something in college or looking to get a higher education or whatever it is to better himself.. He will be very much struggling to be paying child support and paying rent for his own apartment.

I will also add and I am sorry up front.. 

But fvck this church bullsh!t.. For all the church you both are going too, it seems she didn't learn sh!t from it.. Personally church has served his purpose, but its time is coming to an end. Men and Women do not need some god to make them morally, correct and just.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> She's not ready to be married. She got pregnant and married at 17 without so much as a handshake from anyone else. You at least had girlfriends, she had nothing.
> 
> I get that cheating triggers everyone here and it is wrong, but you simply can't hold a kid to the same standards as a mature adult. They haven't the coping skills of an adult, so when combined with no experience it's not surprising that she'd like the attention from someone else.
> 
> ...


I agree with some of what you said but cheating isn't a right of passage. I never did and many are never unfaithful. 

Many do not need to have sex with multiple people before marriage to make them safe.

I think a lack of education and understanding of her own character contributed here. She had it in her to cheat and she did.

She is also not showing that her marriage was a priority after D-day by refusing NC and continuing to work with her walking dildo.

It is obvious that she is not ready for marriage. She needs to get a grip however, so she doesn't establish an idiotic pattern of behavior.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I agree with some of what you said but cheating isn't a right of passage. I never did and many are never unfaithful.
> 
> Many do not need to have sex with multiple people before marriage to make them safe.
> 
> ...


I wasn't suggesting that cheating is a right of passage. I'm suggesting that it has a higher probably among those who aren't ready to settle down, so commitment is not a good idea until you're mature enough to handle it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whiteviper (Aug 8, 2015)

@Symajhi
That was a strong word of choice in my previous post and i sincerely apologize. 

To my stance: I think that if OP follow your advice then it will be a graceful move, very honorable but i doubt it will save his self respect. I've read many stories here and in my experience as a WS and BS, it's mostly entitlement issue not self esteem issue. Cake eaters, or runners, people who have actual problem but choose to bang something new instead of fixing the problem. OP's wife herself had said to him that it was flattery and clearly lack of boundaries, not self esteem issue. OP said that she said things that she had never said to him, to me it reads that she got off from doing the taboo. Framing it as self esteem and viewing wayward spouse as lost pretty much just gave them a get out of jail free card instead of truly finding by themselves on why they did what they did. 
As for asking WS in this case the OP's wife for forgiveness, why ? This i just don't get it. She lied, risked his health, risked their kids stability, humiliate and broke the vow, had sex with other man and he has to apologize? I'm confused

Like i said, it's kind. But is it wise ?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's nothing you did wrong, it's her not being ready to be married.


I agree.

But perhaps; her receiving the consequence of divorce at such a young age with small children, will be a life lesson that will improve her maturity level. Maybe she'll be closer to being "ready" for her next marriage.


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## Zak082 (Jun 21, 2015)

I told her to be completely honest with me for the 3 months after I discovered the affair. In those 3 months I have caught her in 2 more lies dealing with a guy on Facebook and on an app. All she did was like something of his but when I asked she lied straight to my face.
Both times she said she would never lie again and she learned but then did it again 2 days ago. 
I just don't think I can ever trust her again of she can't even be fully honest with me for 3 months while I try to process her affair she had.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Zak082 said:


> I told her to be completely honest with me for the 3 months after I discovered the affair. In those 3 months I have caught her in 2 more lies dealing with a guy on Facebook and on an app. All she did was like something of his but when I asked she lied straight to my face.
> Both times she said she would never lie again and she learned but then did it again 2 days ago.
> I just don't think I can ever trust her again of she can't even be fully honest with me for 3 months while I try to process her affair she had.


This is not good.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Zak082 said:


> I told her to be completely honest with me for the 3 months after I discovered the affair. In those 3 months I have *caught her in 2 more lies dealing with a guy on Facebook and on an app*. *All she did was like something of his but when I asked she lied straight to my face.
> Both times she said she would never lie again and she learned but then did it again 2 days ago. *
> I just don't think I can ever trust her again of she can't even be fully honest with me for 3 months while I try to process her affair she had.


Now that she's had a taste of strange, she's on the prowl for more. Liking stuff on peoples social media is done for fishing and snap chatting or similar apps are for communicating without leaving a trail. I wouldn't be surprised if she has a burner phone. 

You have to trust your gut. It's screaming because you know there is more. Talk of forgiveness when she's still lying is a recipe for more heartache.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
There are several things here that I find problematic. First and most importantly is her inability to grasp and understand basic principles. I assume that you and she were raised in "the church", going regularly throughout your young lives and even with this strong influence she is unable to demonstrate its positive effect on her in this instance. She further exemplified this during the 3 month period you mention above by not even being able to be completely truthful with you for such a short time.

The next issue is her age and I see this as both a blessing and a curse. Part, but certainly not all, of this behavior may be attributable to her immaturity. As such, it may be slightly more probable that she can mature beyond this behavior and become a better person but only if she learns from her actions and that usually only occurs with serious repercussions for without consequences, the behavior is more likely shown in her mind to be acceptable rather than detestable.

Also, we must consider that this was not a one time mistake that she immediately repented for, begged forgiveness and made drastic changes to correct. This was months long and was only stopped by your discovery, that speaks more to a lifestyle than an isolated occurrence. And again, as mentioned above, this was going on while all the while attending church, going on family outings and generally acting as if all was well. No discernible guilt, remorse or concern of any kind. This is indicative of someone sorely lacking in conscience and that is disturbing.

The focus of this really becomes what you want at the end of the day. And also what you can tolerate and forgive. I agree with others here in that a hasty decision is not usually prudent. However, in order to make any decision one must consider as many of the variables as one can. If you want your family to continue and if you believe that you are capable of forgiving* her then you should fight for your marriage with counseling and therapy and whatever else you find helpful. If you simply cannot accept what she has done and are unable to see past it, then no amount of reconciliation will suffice.

I advise you to carefully consider what R will entail and be as prepared as is possible to see it through. You must also take her desire to R into account. If she is not all in then the effort will not be successful. You must try to ascertain her sincerity and you will only have her actions to guide you so you must be extremely diligent in your observations. It is a difficult road to R but it is possible if the desire to succeed is strong enough and if both parties are invested 100% in its success. Whatever your decision I wish you strength and good fortune.

* It has been suggested on this thread that you forgive her unconditionally. This is not possible for someone who cares. If you did not care then anything the individual could do would be forgiven since it would be of little consequence to you. However, if you care for someone, then their actions do affect you greatly and can stir strong emotion. Therefore, in order to forgive someone, they must want your forgiveness. As such they will go to extraordinary measures to prove not only their regret for their actions but their resolve to never allow it to happen again as well. Short of this, really all you can do is give them acceptance, which is not a good basis for R.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> I wasn't suggesting that cheating is a right of passage. I'm suggesting that it has a higher probably among those who aren't ready to settle down, so commitment is not a good idea until you're mature enough to handle it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree completely.

Zak you said in a prior thread that you don't have a job and she is the sole support of your family. Is this still true today? If so, you couldn't have created a more perfect storm for an affair. 17 year old bride, 21 year old mom of 2 who's the only provider for the family. I'm not trying to excuse your wife's behavior by any means but most women in that position would have a hard time respecting her husband.

You say you are a Christian. I suggest you go read 1 Tim 5:8. Then read it again and then again. Yes you need to address your wife's infidelity but you need to address you as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JMGrey (Dec 19, 2012)

Zak082 said:


> I told her to be completely honest with me for the 3 months after I discovered the affair. In those 3 months I have caught her in 2 more lies dealing with a guy on Facebook and on an app. All she did was like something of his but when I asked she lied straight to my face.
> Both times she said she would never lie again and she learned but then did it again 2 days ago.
> I just don't think I can ever trust her again of she can't even be fully honest with me for 3 months while I try to process her affair she had.


Remember that a marriage, any relationship really, is a meeting of wills. When united, it can do miraculous things. When in contention, it can be hell on Earth. You can do nothing about her half of the relationship but you can about yours. I recall the words of Frank Herbert, who wrote:

'He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing.'

The salient word in that quote is *can*, and in this instance does not refer to ability, but rather the expression of will. That you can stomach the loss of the marriage and the consequences. If you truly want to save your marriage, you must demonstrate to your wife that you have the ability (which you legally do) and the will to do so if your requirements from the relationship are not met. Right now, you are hesitant, while she is reasonably certain that she can exit the marriage on terms that are advantageous to her. She has the control. If you would wrest that from her you must demonstrate that it will not be entirely on her terms nor on her schedule, i.e., when she has finished shopping for your replacement.

I wish you luck.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Thorburn said:


> As a former chaplain and pastor I would say you have every right as a Christian to divorce her, without regret, without guilt, without even attempting R, MC or anything else. She committed adultery, period end of story.
> 
> If you decide to R that is an option.
> 
> Forgiveness is something you are required to do as a Christian. I would suggest that this may take some time. Forgiveness does not require you to take her back. Forgiveness does not require that you overlook what she has done. Forgiveness does not require that she does not face the consequences of her actions.


Exactly!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Zak, I just realized you have 3 different threads going with the same title. People are responding in all three threads. Perhaps you should consider deleting 2 of them and keep it all on one thread so people can more easily follow your updates.

Just a thought...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

happy as a clam said:


> Zak, I just realized you have 3 different threads going with the same title. People are responding in all three threads. Perhaps you should consider deleting 2 of them and keep it all on one thread so people can more easily follow your updates.
> 
> Just a thought...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree,

zak stick to this thread it will help more


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

whiteviper said:


> @Symajhi
> That was a strong word of choice in my previous post and i sincerely apologize.


Don't worry about it. It's an Internet forum. I'm old enough to know that I ought not get all bent out of shape over a slight.



> To my stance: I think that if OP follow your advice then it will be a graceful move, very honorable but i doubt it will save his self respect. I've read many stories here and in my experience as a WS and BS, it's mostly entitlement issue not self esteem issue. Cake eaters, or runners, people who have actual problem but choose to bang something new instead of fixing the problem. OP's wife herself had said to him that it was flattery and clearly lack of boundaries, not self esteem issue. OP said that she said things that she had never said to him, to me it reads that she got off from doing the taboo. Framing it as self esteem and viewing wayward spouse as lost pretty much just gave them a get out of jail free card instead of truly finding by themselves on why they did what they did.
> As for asking WS in this case the OP's wife for forgiveness, why ? This i just don't get it. She lied, risked his health, risked their kids stability, humiliate and broke the vow, had sex with other man and he has to apologize? I'm confused
> 
> Like i said, it's kind. But is it wise ?


I see where you're coming from. My ex-WS spouse had both self-esteem and lack of boundaries issues. Even in her attempt to try to "be good", it didn't work. She was compelled nonetheless. It was only after the discovery of it (I suspected it and she told me about the EA after I confronted her) and her subsequent desire to do IC and then tell me about her sordid past, that she was able to shed all of it and change. Had none of this happened, I wouldn't have stayed, of course not. My whole argument here is that it's possible for some to truly do a 180 and repent of it and I think honestly it just depends on their character. There's some people who just frankly don't give a damn and ought not be with anyone. Those people are just interested in quick, self-satisfaction. I am not advocating that Zak the OP hands an olive branch out to a girl like that *if it can be proven that that is what she is*. He knows her best and we don't know her at all. All we are going on is what he's posted about her (which could be fully truthful, partly truthful, or full of distortions, any of which are possible given his current emotional state). So, I'm giving him a blueprint to follow in how to make decisions about this. Part of that blueprint leaves open the idea of bailing on it entirely if she won't agree to certain things that are, in essence, part of the real building blocks of marriage and what I would say (just like in my marriage) were missing. 

He doesn't have to apologize for anything unless he's guilty of any wrong-doing. The point of that comment was that he needs to wash his hands of anything he's guilty of as well so the slate is clean for both of them. It's a matter of equity and reciprocity (if that is applicable) and one also of having clear conscience. It'd be real easy for him to shine a floodlight on her and keep it on her over her EA/PA and then that be the focus of their relationship while he has his own skeletons. See where I'm going with that?


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

badmemory said:


> I agree.
> 
> But perhaps; her receiving the consequence of divorce at such a young age with small children, will be a life lesson that will improve her maturity level. Maybe she'll be closer to being "ready" for her next marriage.


Maybe, could be. Sometimes there's an EA or PA that a WS engages in, then the couple gets divorced, and then they reconcile some time later only to re-marry. That's possible, too. :wink2:


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## Symajhi (Nov 2, 2011)

Zak082 said:


> I told her to be completely honest with me for the 3 months after I discovered the affair. In those 3 months I have caught her in 2 more lies dealing with a guy on Facebook and on an app. All she did was like something of his but when I asked she lied straight to my face.
> Both times she said she would never lie again and she learned but then did it again 2 days ago.


Expect her to at first. My WS did the same thing and I suspect many others' WS's did as well. She's attempting to resist and stick to her status quo.



> I just don't think I can ever trust her again of she can't even be fully honest with me for 3 months while I try to process her affair she had.


It's because she doesn't understand how an EA/PA affects a BS. That is one thing that nobody will ever understand unless they've been a BS. If there's any one concrete truth about infidelity, it is that. 

Aside from that though, I suggest you lay down an ultimatum like I said in my first post. She needs to know how you've hurt her. She needs to see that it isn't acceptable, that it's completely and totally off-limits, and that this isn't some silly kid's game. You need to lay down the law, demand that she be upfront with you and provide you full access to her phone, emails, and anything else that can be used as a means to pursue secretive impropriety, or you will leave her, and you will pursue to have custody of the kids. And if she doesn't, you must be willing to pursue that options. Unfortunately, when it comes to human beings sometimes, we need negative force placed against us to push us to do the right thing. It's the same thing as the law of consequences and punishment we use on kids to straighten them up. But in this case, you're not the parent; you're the spouse. 

If she will not acquiesce to your RIGHHFUL demands as her spouse, then threaten to leave. You have to protect yourself and you certainly cannot allow this type of activity on her part to continue.


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