# Sex issues: frequencys



## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

I'd like to start out with how amazing this forum. It has really opened up my eyes.

I've been with my partner for 3 years. We're not married yet, but I do hope it happens in the future.

I've been scrolling through threads regarding LD/HD. I've really taken to heart the stories people have posted. Especially concerning service sex.

I've been having issues with just that. My girl would be happy with 2-4/MO while I'd want 12/MO. After recent arguments, we finally settled on just having sex even when she is not particularly aroused. Though I am uncomfortable with the idea, it seems to be the only way for me to not be frustrated with the relationship/sex-life. However my dilemma is that the sex frequency gap is quite large...and though she is more than willing to please me, I feel it might be unfair for her to put up with my libido. I am unsure if I want to continue what seems like a life-long battle to sate my libido at the cost of her comfort. 

My question to readers/posters is if you are in a similar situation in your marriages, wherein the libidos are vastly different--would you go back and end the relationship if you could? Or is the constant upkeep worth it if only to stay with the one you love?


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

If sex is important to you, don't marry her. You'd be happier with a woman that has a higher libido and likes sex. With no kids and no marriage certificate, you're in the fortunate position to leave without consequences, something that most of the guys on this forum cannot do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I agree that you should not marry someone whose sex drive is this much different than yours. There are plenty of high drive women who understand that frequent sex is part of a good, healthy relationship/marriage.


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that you should not marry someone whose sex drive is this much different than yours. There are *plenty* of high drive women who understand that frequent sex is part of a good, healthy relationship/marriage.


I don't mean any disrespect, but *plenty* seems to be a bit of an overstatement. Maybe the stats prove you correct, I just don't see it. Where are these elusive creatures ? Loch Ness ? There are a handful on TAM, but they are taken.


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## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

Adex said:


> If sex is important to you, don't marry her. You'd be happier with a woman that has a higher libido and likes sex. With no kids and no marriage certificate, you're in the fortunate position to leave without consequences, something that most of the guys on this forum cannot do.


I won't lie, I would be thrilled to have a more "romantic" partner but she's an amazing person and I love her. We've being in and out of the relationship a couple times over the issue, but we've always somehow come back to each other. I want to keep trying, but I don't know how foolish my decision is to accept "service" sex in lieu of normal sex where she is in to it. I guess I want know how people here have handled their partners inability to become aroused, and if it ever felt like it was worth abandoning the relationship rather then put up with it.


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## east2west (Oct 19, 2012)

AnonGuyinhistwenties said:


> I won't lie, I would be thrilled to have a more "romantic" partner but she's an amazing person and I love her. We've being in and out of the relationship a couple times over the issue, but we've always somehow come back to each other. I want to keep trying, but I don't know how foolish my decision is to accept "service" sex in lieu of normal sex where she is in to it. I guess I want know how people here have handled their partners inability to become aroused, and if it ever felt like it was worth abandoning the relationship rather then put up with it.


It is extremely foolish to accept the "service sex". Two reasons.

1) It will not satisfy you. What you really want is a partner who WANTS to have sex with you. She will very rarely actually want sex with you because it is she will always feel like she just did it even though it might have been weeks ago. So you will grow unsatisfied with the sex even though it may be frequent.

2) She will use it to control you. The first time she gets mad at you about something she will cut you off from sex as a punishment. Once she gets good at that you'll never get f*cked again without working for it. You will look pathetic to her and then what little desire she had for you in the first place will disappear completely.

Marry someone who wants sex at the same rate you do. 3X a week is pretty average so you should not have a hard time finding someone. It's better to wait to find the right person than to get hitched with the wrong person and be unhappy for the next 10 or 20 and then divorced.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

AnonGuy,

The "chore" sex you're receiving now may currently be enough for you but when you get 5 or 10 years down the road it won't be. Add in a few kids, mortage or rent payments and all that fun stuff and it will become worse as you stare into your wife's eyes and know she is just lying there thinking about other items she needs to check off on her "To Do" list once she finishes you!

Seriously, don't get married to this woman! If you do, these words of warning will haunt you forever!


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Could not agree with east/west more! I was married for 30 years, (until I discovered my xw was having an affair) my whole married life I dealt with my hd and her ld. The last two years, she basically just gave up fighting and would agree whenever I asked. It was the most unfulfilling sex! Although I could control the frequency, most times I would be more frustrated after than when I wasnt getting any! You have some control now that you are not married. Believe me, if you are not happy now, it will be far worse if you get married, for in any but the very very few instances, sex after marriage declines steadily especially if one of the partners is a ld person. And if you continue to "force" the ld person, resentment will build and build. IF sex is important to you do not settle! You will be miserable. Just keep reading this forum if you want proof!


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Oh, and Stargate, I would agree there are PLENTY of women who enjoy sex!!!! If you cant find them you are either not looking in an effiecient manner or need to move! I have been single for just over a year. In that time I have basically seen 3 women, turned away 5 or so others. The three I dated (#3 is my current gf of 7 months, think she is a keeper!) all were very joyful lovers, all enjoyed sex. They are out there!


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

Anonguyinhistwenties, Please read the responses over and over. 

Also read tons of threads on here and you'll get the picture.

Do not marry her until this sex issue is sorted out.


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## Kermitty (Dec 27, 2012)

I've wondered that same question as I think back on my relationship. Should I have ended a relationship with someone who I believe I loved because sex wasn't what I wanted it to be.....I don't know if maybe I'm naive but there has to be a compromise here somehow. It doesn't seem right to miss out on someone who you love everything else about except for this one thing. I agree it can be major thing but isn't it harder to find the "right" person versus someone who likes sex as much as you? Doesn't libido change for everyone at different times in their lives? There's also outside stresses with work and kids that can affect how often you have sex or medical issues that come up. I went through a phase where sleep was far more appealing than sex when my son was born. Now my sex drive seems higher than when I first met my husband. Sorry if this doesn't answer your question and just confuses you. I was just surprised so many were saying to leave her. If she is perfect for you otherwise, I hope you can work it out somehow.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

You're getting caught up in the quantity, when you need to also focus on the quality.
Duty sex?
I shudder at the thought, of having someone have sex out of a sense of duty, that's just wrong on so many levels.
If you think it's bad now, it's only going to get worse after you get married, it WILL NOT get better.
Repeat, it WILL NOT get better & will actually get worse, you might end up having sex every few months, if you're lucky.
Spend more time in this section, read the stories of people who have put up with 20+ years of a LD spouse.
It's not a pretty picture & something I doubt you want to experience yourself.
At some point love is NOT enough.


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## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

east2west said:


> It is extremely foolish to accept the "service sex". Two reasons.
> 
> 1) It will not satisfy you. What you really want is a partner who WANTS to have sex with you. She will very rarely actually want sex with you because it is she will always feel like she just did it even though it might have been weeks ago. So you will grow unsatisfied with the sex even though it may be frequent.
> 
> ...


You are the embodiment of my self each lonely night we just say goodnight and rollover. And you are right. We've tried "duty" sex sometimes, but each and every time I've being unable to even finish due to how mundane and casual it seemed--the indifference. Maybe if I was more into hookers that would seem more pleasant? *chuckle* This is also the first time anyone has explained the POV of a LD so clearly. I can clearly imagine that...thinking sex happened yesterday but really it was months ago. It so crystal clear. 

I really appreciate everyone's responses and POV. I'll admit I'm naive and direly needed outside POV.




Kermitty said:


> I've wondered that same question as I think back on my relationship. Should I have ended a relationship with someone who I believe I loved because sex wasn't what I wanted it to be.....I don't know if maybe I'm naive but there *has to be a compromise here somehow*. It doesn't seem right to miss out on someone who you love everything else about except for this one thing. I agree it can be major thing but *isn't it harder to find the "right" person versus someone who likes sex as much as you*? Doesn't libido change for everyone at different times in their lives? There's also outside stresses with work and kids that can affect how often you have sex or medical issues that come up. I went through a phase where sleep was far more appealing than sex when my son was born. Now my sex drive seems higher than when I first met my husband. Sorry if this doesn't answer your question and just confuses you. I was just surprised so many were saying to leave her. If she is perfect for you otherwise, I hope you can work it out somehow.


These two sentences have being haunting my conscious since the beginning of the relationship. Nobody is perfect correct? 

I guess this is why I've tried to figure it out this long. 

However this forum has changed me in one way: My sexual needs are not uncommon or weird, they are in fact, very normal. I'm pretty naive, and before I even went as far as thinking 3X/week was a ridiculous number and there was something wrong with me. It didn't help that she "felt" sex was more of a want, than a need. I now know differently though, and I'm confident that I will either get my needs or move on.

The people here are more helpful then I'd ever imagine from a public forum I just randomly googled. Major pluses to everyone :smthumbup:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/58693-men-self-imposed-rejection.html

off-topic: This thread really opened my eyes to the dozens of men who were being not just physically but psychologically affected by LD/HD relationships. I don't want that to ever happen. *Sex is important* and I'm going to be assertive in making it important


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Anon,

Be careful of temporary changes!

many of us have seen improvement but they never last long! Best I got was increased frequency for about 6 months and then before I knew it, we were back to where we started!


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## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Anon,
> 
> Be careful of temporary changes!
> 
> many of us have seen improvement but they never last long! Best I got was increased frequency for about 6 months and then before I knew it, we were back to where we started!


It's hard to be wary of traps down the line, I think! But though I've set goals for our sex-life in the past, she has let them "slip" away. I will be watching things like a hawk this time.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I could easily have sex every day (even 1 - 4x a day at times) but realistically, my wife's low drive, compromising to her, 2 - 3x week and only when I initiate. If left up to her, 1 - 2x month. A healthy compromise for me would be maybe once every 2nd day, 3 - 4x each week, but its what she wants, man up, etc....heh.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Sex decreases after marriage. If you're having problems now it will only get worse later.

Think carefully before marrying this girl.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

AnonGuyinhistwenties said:


> After recent arguments, we finally settled on just having sex even when she is not particularly aroused. Though I am uncomfortable with the idea, it seems to be the only way for me to not be frustrated with the relationship/sex-life. However my dilemma is that the sex frequency gap is quite large...and though she is more than willing to please me, I feel it might be unfair for her to put up with my libido. I am unsure if I want to continue what seems like a life-long battle to sate my libido at the cost of her comfort.
> 
> My question to readers/posters is if you are in a similar situation in your marriages, wherein the libidos are vastly different--would you go back and end the relationship if you could? Or is the constant upkeep worth it if only to stay with the one you love?


AnonGuyinhistwenties,

It is very smart to be on your journey for help concerning sex drive differences. It seems like both of you respect and care about each other. She seems to genuinely care about your needs even if she is not as motivated as you.

What matters the most is intentionality. I would evaluate her love for you more than anything else. Even if she has a psychological issue with even the idea of sex... if she loves you and is willing to work through it... even if she is bipolar... it is not fair to write her off as hopeless.

Where there is love and deference for the greater good of each other there is hope for working things out.

In my case, generally, I am the HD and my wife has the lower drive. I don't look at that as a roadblock... I see that as a hurdle that CAN be conquered. I understand her needs that produce a desire for greater intimacy. I work very hard to meet those needs. We end up relating greatly to each other, AND...

... MOST of the time we reach that deep level of intimacy both of us need. There have been nights were I know that I want sexual intimacy and that she is not ready... so I hunker down and spend the time relating to her based on her needs. It may take 5, 6, or 7 hours of simply spending time together at night, but when she is ready... she is ready. I don't see a problem with the level of effort needed to reach that point together. When we are relational and caring for each other the whole time... it really is no effort at all.

I address the specific habits that a husband can do to reach the heart of his wife and to secure a much better relationship over the years in a video I made in my 7 Husband Habits link in my signature box. Consider those habits and try them now to see if they can work for you.

To answer your question: If you look at meeting your wife's need first, relationally, then no, it is not constant upkeep. However, the focus you place on her is well worth it - And, you get to be with the one you love.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

BTW... it rarely takes 5-6 hours to get intimacy in my marriage as an example.

My wife has told me that the more frequent I try the easier it is for her to reach intimacy the next time. If I keep at it (gently) every day, then before I know it... an increasing frequency is a result.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> BTW... it rarely takes 5-6 hours to get intimacy in my marriage as an example.
> 
> My wife has told me that the more frequent I try the easier it is for her to reach intimacy the next time. If I keep at it (gently) every day, then before I know it... an increasing frequency is a result.


RPS,

Just curious but what is the frequency right now and how old are you guys and how long have you been married and do you have kids?


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## PithyOne (Dec 28, 2012)

I have been unhappily married for 21.5 years. #1 I was very inexperienced when I met my wife. I barely dated and only made out with other women.

Let me say. women who do not want sex much in their early twenties rarely change. Not saying it cannot happen, but even if it does you will become bitter. I am speaking from my experience.

Now here I am, I have stayed so longer have teenage son, teenage daughter and a 6 year old daughter. I have stayed for kids, house, and schools. Now I cannot take it any more. my soul feels like I have been losing it. I see how my marriage has affected my son. Other family members sees how my wife treats me. Maybe it was just a bad choice, but none the less.

Think before you move forward.


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## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm still checking this for stories. Anything is appreciated. As many POV are awesome.


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## Horsa (Jun 27, 2012)

My DW was HD when we first met. I usually initiated, but she would initiated if I didn't for 2 days. After our first child, she did turned LD for 2 years, until our second child was borned. Where she did turned HD again for a year. Until she was bored again. MMSL did gave me an understanding of what was going on. We did have a better sex life now. The quantity and quality was the best that I'm aware of. You should get your copy of MMSL.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> ... MOST of the time we reach that deep level of intimacy both of us need. There have been nights were I know that I want sexual intimacy and that she is not ready... *so I hunker down and spend the time relating to her based on her needs*. *It may take 5, 6, or 7 hours of simply spending time together at night, but when she is ready... she is ready. I don't see a problem with the level of effort needed to reach that point together. When we are relational and caring for each other the whole time... it really is no effort at all.*


I'm exhausted just reading that, 5-7 hours of hanging out just to have sex?
That's not relaxing, that's a job!
Seems like your wife is the only one controlling YOUR sex life. 
There's a thread over in the Men's Section that you may want to check out.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...tlemen-here-who-dont-believe-working-sex.html


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Toffer said:


> RPS,
> 
> Just curious but what is the frequency right now and how old are you guys and how long have you been married and do you have kids?



OK. The frequency right now is 2 to 4 times a week. I am 33 and she is 31. And, we have been married for 8 very blessed, but difficult years. Also, we have 4 kids, all of which are 6 years old and younger. Relationally we are really united and can rely on each other to be honest. We talk a lot and work through our problems on a very deep level. We would be miserable otherwise.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Phenix70 said:


> I'm exhausted just reading that, 5-7 hours of hanging out just to have sex?
> That's not relaxing, that's a job!
> Seems like your wife is the only one controlling YOUR sex life.
> There's a thread over in the Men's Section that you may want to check out.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-c...tlemen-here-who-dont-believe-working-sex.html


I think that I did not qualify my statement enough. I will work 5 - 7 hours talking to and helping my wife through an issue because I love her. Sex is the benefit that comes about naturally for having cared enough to work through it with her.

I am building something in my marriage that is built to last. My attitude concerning working through issues and intimacy is positive and constructive. I am my wife's biggest fan. I honor and respect her with an emphasis on making sure she has happiness and fulfillment. I will stop at nothing less. She reciprocates based on my needs as a result. 

Sometimes it is the other way around. Sometimes she is the one with the initiative to make sure my needs are fulfilled first, but you better believe I will turn right around and make sure she is fulfilled. Besides, I am more "even keel" about life than she is. She needs to feel good about what is going on in her life to function best.

This whole process had to start with someone. Sometimes I chuck out the mere thought of getting any sleep for the opportunity to make something right between us. It's a very once in a great while investment in my marriage that pays back mega dividends.

That is where the 5 - 7 hours of talking and relating come in. I would rather go to work the next day exhausted knowing that I did not allow an issue to wear down the strength of my marriage. I always try to make sure we end with intimacy. Now that I work from home and work 4 nights a week, I make sure that she gets to sleep in on those 3 other nights of the week if we talked long into the night. I take on the kids and anything else in the morning. That is not being a fixer - it is being the leader of my family.

Often she lets me sleep in so I can get rest when I had a long night at work too.

I will take responsibility for the health of my marriage. Marriage is like the army for me. It takes long hours of working at it and management to win battles and win the war. I am happy with my marriage. My wife is an emotional creature. I have made it my job to understand her to a T. She reciprocates in kind.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> I think that I did not qualify my statement enough. I will work 5 - 7 hours talking to and helping my wife through an issue because I love her. Sex is the benefit that comes about naturally for having cared enough to work through it with her.
> 
> I am building something in my marriage that is built to last. My attitude concerning working through issues and intimacy is positive and constructive. I am my wife's biggest fan. I honor and respect her with an emphasis on making sure she has happiness and fulfillment. I will stop at nothing less. She reciprocates based on my needs as a result.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the follow up, what you describe does sound more balanced & equitable, with both partners, taking the time they each need.
I think balance is vital in a marriage, there has got to be a Yin to every Yang in order for it to flow properly & to cut down on conflict.
If one was to read through the majority of issues here on TAM, I think the common theme would be an imbalance of sorts & finding a way to create the balance is where success comes from.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> AnonGuyinhistwenties,
> 
> It is very smart to be on your journey for help concerning sex drive differences. It seems like both of you respect and care about each other. She seems to genuinely care about your needs even if she is not as motivated as you.
> 
> ...


This is so on target.  
I am lower drive than my husband. The problem for me is that I don't think about sex while I am caught up in the daily grind. All I need to do is relax with my husband, start slowly and then then do what we need to get me revved up and off we go. It takes about 1/2 hr. 

I think "lower drive" is a misnomer. I think a more accurate term is lower spontaneous desire. For me arousal precedes desire. Other than the different ways we start out, I am as passionate as my husband. 

Talk to your wife about this concept. Tell her it is normal for a lower drive person. All she needs to do is relax and allow herself to be aroused. This I think is where the problem is in many relationships. The LD person may be resistant to jump starting desire under the mistaken belief that spontaneous is the only way to get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

Don't do it, this issues is on almost every relationship forum and it does not end well,she will put up with that now but after you get married it will go out the window and you will have another sexless marrige asking how to fix it on here. 

You now know what what you are in for which she has told you ,so now the choice is yours and if you choose to get married remember she gave you a warning and you still went along with it.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

AnonGuyinhistwenties,

There are three questions that you seriously need to have answered on your journey. Here are the first two.

Does she really love you. I mean, does she love you more than she loves herself as her own personal rule to follow? We all mess up on this... But, is she dedicated to you?

The other question is this:

Do you love her more than you love yourself as a personal rule to follow for yourself?

If yes to both of these first two questions, then you have the necessary ingredients to make your marriage a mutual success.

If she has relational needs that must be fulfilled in order to have the frame of mind and physiological chemical reactions ready so she can be desirous, then if you really care about her needs more than your own, you will put forth the effort to make that intimacy together possible with her.

If she really cares for your needs more than her own, then she will let you lead in that endeavor... and in all probability (per these givens) she will increase in desire for you and in frequency of that desire. Is it 100% successful all the time? Yes and no. Sex doesn't always result, but greater intimacy does result. If you love each other, then both of you will give it all you've got to make it work.

I have a friend whose wife is going through chemotherapy for breast cancer. He takes care of his VERY sick wife 24 hours a day, and does almost everything for her. She is going to lose both her breasts. He told me he did not think twice about the idea of her double mastectomy, and all the problems associated with cancer getting in the way of anything in their marriage.

Think about that. He is going through hell right now with no possibility of sex, and he is caring for her with all he's got. Do you think that kind of love is unappreciated by her?

Now apply that kind of thinking to your sex life in your possible/future marriage. Do you think she will not appreciate you giving all you've got?

I know plenty of guys, (me included) who work 60 to 70 hour weeks. Come home and still give the rest of themselves to their wife and family and make that time seem like he was never gone those 60 to 70 hours.

Now for my third question.

Do you think your gf is physically, mentally, and emotionally incapable of having sex?

If not, then there is hope for a sex life in your marriage.

I told my wife when we got married. "I don't understand you AT ALL. Our marriage will only work if you coach me into a greater understanding of you that will make me able to lead our family into victory." 

She's never failed in her promise to be my coach. I have given all I have got in order to make good on that promise of victory. It is all in how you approach the problem, and the attitude you apply to your solution that makes the difference.


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## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm so glad people are willing to share their stories.

After a long weekend of thought. I will meet with her soon. I have a very confident frame of mind for the discussion ahead. 

By expanding my knowledge, I have a clear set of goals in mind. I now know it is *important* that we understand each others love languages. I will not dispute the fact that I really had no idea how to communicate in HER love language. Though I know she wanted to spend time together--that it made her feel good--I did not fully invest myself with all my heart. An evening spent watching TV together or me engaging in my own hobby--is probably not what she has in mind for an emotionally fulfilling experience with her SO. I understand that now. I am guilty of the equivalent of "duty" together time. I want to change for the better, and I find this to be a very important factor in bringing us both together again

However as I have also learned, she needs to acquire the skill to communicate in my LOVE language as well. Laying down in bed, opening her legs, and saying "get on with it" will never be an acceptable experience.Sex is *important* to me, I am going to be proactive in fulfilling my need--the days of being insecure and self-rejection are behind me now. It is because of TMA that I can confidently express my sexual needs. It is also because of TMA that I can empathize with her LD. But as one very smart member on this board mentioned, "Low drive means the engine is not revved at all times, there is no "spontaneous" feeling to desire sex." She goes on to mention "However, being spontaneously aroused is not the only way to become aroused." That will be the key to getting the frequency and fulfillment I want out of our sex life. As long as we--together--rev her engine, then desire for sex will follow. My mistake in the past was to presume her lack of spontaneous desire as a blow to my ego--she doesn't want me, I told myself. With my new set of mind though, I'm excited to use our combined creativity to find ways to arouse her in to wanting sex.

My only fear is that the problem runs much deeper than needing a warm up before being able to feel aroused and desire fox sex. But what I have learned will go a long way toward future relationships if that's the case.


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## KendalMintcake (Nov 3, 2012)

You wanted to know if us schmucks who got blindsided by LD issues would end it if we could go back in time. The answer her is yes. One guy mentioned that as soon as a fight happens, which is bound to, she would then use sex to ontrol you - that is so true. If she is LD now just, you wait. My wife actually believes that we should be able to function with no sex at all - I am not bs'ing here - I asked her point blank recently. She actually somehow believes that, and as many have expressed here also, the worst part about it is that they will tell you that you are hyper sexual for wanting it 2 or 3 times a year. Next thing you'll find yourself at strip clubs, and if things progress - to extra-marital affairs. She'd get her kids then dump your needs. As an example, my wife doesn't even cook or do cleaning or laundry and if I get hungry I dang well better not eat her food or the kid's food. I had cereal for dinner last night after cleaning this hole of a house and doing the family laundry. It gets so insane that she would even tell you her period came back a week later, the night you expressed interest being intimate - total flat out lies - as in no tampons were even used. That's how crappy it gets. As for now, be careful even if you try to address it now - if the LD partner wants to get married they'll tell you whatever is needed to keep you - so BEWARE - so she's a great person. Who wants to bone a great person? You want to have Alex with an enthusiastic lover. I would never call my wife a lover - she's a great 'person' sure - I am you 20 years ago...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

AnonGuyinhistwenties said:


> My only fear is that the problem runs much deeper than needing a warm up before being able to feel aroused and desire fox sex. But what I have learned will go a long way toward future relationships if that's the case.


AnonGuyinhistwenties,

It is good to hear that you have a new mind set, and that you are excited to use both your combined creativity to find ways to arouse her in to wanting sex.

You will figure out if she loves you enough to work on this objectively and deeply relationally if she is willing to work on intimacy with you. 

There is no guarantee that it will be a quick solution, but if she is willing to be open and honest with you, then real intentionality for wholeness with you is there. Success is just a matter of time. If you persevere even just a little bit, you will see results. You might just be surprised how fast you both will find a new life of intimacy in marriage.

Be on guard for the signs of the possibility of her being selfish and manipulative once you get into this with her. Take it from Catherine602, if both of you are willing you will have success.

Please, if you are comfortable with it... let us know the developments of your intimacy journey with her.

RP.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I think "lower drive" is a misnomer. I think a more accurate term is lower spontaneous desire. For me arousal precedes desire. Other than the different ways we start out, I am as passionate as my husband.
> 
> Talk to your wife about this concept. Tell her it is normal for a lower drive person. All she needs to do is relax and allow herself to be aroused. This I think is where the problem is in many relationships. The LD person may be resistant to jump starting desire under the mistaken belief that spontaneous is the only way to get there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she is loving and willing, then Catherine602's sentiments should ring true.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

Also, make sure you find out from her if sex in marriage is an "unnecessary evil." 

Find out if she thinks that a marriage could be healthy without sex.
That is a recipe for control, manipulation, torture, temptation to cheat, and could destroy the marriage.

Sex should not be a means of blackmail or any other kind of control.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> If she is loving and willing, then Catherine602's sentiments should ring true.


I think this is key. A LD person can love another deeply but still not want to be arroused. It depends on the type of person they are. 

What type of person is your fiancé? Is she rigid, or is she mailable. When you discuss differing points of view, does she consider your view?

Is she sympathetic towards people and you? Has she ever read books on emotional attachment, and relationships etc? 

If she is not naturally HD, she is more apt to accept that she needs a jump start to get in the mood if she is relatively phychologically healthy, a giving, empathetic, and flexible person. 

However, if she domineering, rigid and selfish, she may be that way when you marry. Look at her family and how her mother and father treat each other. 

That may be the model that she knows and may use in yiur relationship.

Some posters you may want to communicate with are SimplyAmorous and Workingonme . SA changed from a LD partner to high drive. Maybe you can ask her about the transition. 

Working's wife is more connected with him now. I don't remember how this change came about but you can PM him for particulars.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

AnonGuyinhistwenties,

There is also a side to this issue that you can control. That side of a marriage dynamic is your own growth of character, and insight into what a wife (and a marriage for that matter) need from a husband in order to be healthy, growing, and strong. 

These points are not easy, or necessarily intuitive for husbands to undertake..., but deep down inside wives crave these qualities to be used in full action on the part of their husbands. 

These personal qualities and actions are intuitive for them to desire. They require the combination of manliness, stability, strength of character, sensitivity, responsibility, and taking charge of the sphere of influence in his life, and the marriage.

If your (potential) future wife is emotionally and relationally stable, then this marriage relationship dynamic is at play in any issue of marriage intimacy. Catherine602 hit that issue perfectly on the head. But, it goes both ways. 

I put together an article that is on Yahoo Voices that can help you understand this dynamic: 7 Husband Habits You Need to Know to Save Your Marriage Originally, this was a video I made, but it is now published as an article. Through a little practice, and your (potential) future wife's help -- these qualities can be the positive influence you can use to soften some intimacy reservations your (potential) future wife may have. 

She is most likely more of an emotional creature than you, me, or any other guy could ever imagine being. Personally, my marriage has gone from periods of dealing with her having LD and me having HD, to both of us having HD together. The single most important aspect of this contrast in my marriage has centered around how stressed my wife had been, how much well-being she felt personally, and how well she had felt about her our marriage.

I don't get the impression that you are a quiter. If you can help her feel more secure, loved, and cared for in her life, then there is hope.


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## AnonGuyinhistwenties (Dec 29, 2012)

She didn't feel like she could have sex at the frequency I needed it. She said there was an emotional disconnect from the physical part. She could become aroused physically but somehow was still feeling disconnect.

I decided to end it in good terms.

Thanks a lot for the help, you guys are awesome.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

Ruuuunnnnnn, Forrreessssstttttt, Ruuuunnnnnnnn


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## popcorn (Nov 2, 2012)

StargateFan said:


> I don't mean any disrespect, but *plenty* seems to be a bit of an overstatement. Maybe the stats prove you correct, I just don't see it. Where are these elusive creatures ? Loch Ness ? There are a handful on TAM, but they are taken.


I don't get this. Do you honestly believe Women aren't just as interested in sex as most men? Wow, where have I been? Why get married then? What is the point?


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## CanadianGuy (Jun 17, 2012)

popcorn said:


> I don't get this. Do you honestly believe Women aren't just as interested in sex as most men? Wow, where have I been? Why get married then? What is the point?


From what my wife tells me her friends say. She say's "the women she knows are just not as interested in sex with their husbands as their husbands are" .


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## rundown (Mar 21, 2012)

AnonGuyinhistwenties said:


> She didn't feel like she could have sex at the frequency I needed it. She said there was an emotional disconnect from the physical part. She could become aroused physically but somehow was still feeling disconnect.
> 
> I decided to end it in good terms.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the help, you guys are awesome.



I am sorry that this had to end for you. It probibly hurts quite a bit. In the end though you most likely saved both of you many years of frustration and hurt. You made the correct decision. Good luck to you going forward sir.


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

AnonGuyinhistwenties said:


> She didn't feel like she could have sex at the frequency I needed it. She said there was an emotional disconnect from the physical part. She could become aroused physically but somehow was still feeling disconnect.
> 
> I decided to end it in good terms.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the help, you guys are awesome.


AnonGuyinhistwenties,

You are fortunate for making sure you talked seriously concerning your intimacy needs (physical and relational) and that you are certain about her present point of view on this topic.

This is huge!

I assume that you are through with this thread, but I want to suggest that her point of view showed a finality in her mind about the disconnect she told you about. Willingness to accept the possibility of things getting better, and the admittance that there is hope for success in the reaching a relationship goal are so very important. 

Because of that, I feel like you made the best choice!


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## StargateFan (Nov 19, 2012)

popcorn said:


> I don't get this. Do you honestly believe Women aren't just as interested in sex as most men? Wow, where have I been? Why get married then? What is the point?


From my own experience and from reading on TAM for a few months I believe that most women are not as interested in sex as men. At least those in LTR. After the first six months or so it just goes away. Maybe that is the males fault for becoming more beta, maybe it is other factors. Not every relationship is like this, but it sure seems like there are a lot. 

Why get married then? That is a very good question. I strongly believe many get married not knowing what they are getting into. Before I got married we got MC and things got better. Second night on the honeymoon cruise and still no sex, I lost it, left the room and realized right then I got hoodwinked. I always suspect her mother told her to give just enough to keep them from leaving.


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## donkey_punch (Jan 15, 2013)

Hi,

You and i are in similar situations, my wife's libido is lower than mine. She even fell asleep once during sex. But hey, sex isn't everything in a marriage and for the other days you can masturbate.

We enjoy going out together, traveling, watching movies, reading books, studying, etc She has a beautiful smile and most important, she respects me. Her parents love me so... am i willing to give all those things over more sex sessions? I don't think so.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

donkey_punch said:


> Hi,
> 
> You and i are in similar situations, my wife's libido is lower than mine. She even fell asleep once during sex. But hey, sex isn't everything in a marriage and for the other days you can masturbate.
> 
> We enjoy going out together, traveling, watching movies, reading books, studying, etc She has a beautiful smile and most important, she respects me. Her parents love me so... am i willing to give all those things over more sex sessions? I don't think so.


This logic completely evades me. For many people, and most men, a marriage with a bad sex life is like a restaurant with awful food. Rather than avoid the terrible food, few people would say, "But the service is great, the location is perfect, and it's clean as a whistle. Sure, you can go somewhere else for good food, but look at all you would be giving up." And most of us would rightfully look at such a person with amazement for suggesting that bad food is acceptable for a restaurant. However, many of those same people will insist that a bad sex life is perfectly fine in a marriage. :scratchhead:


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> This logic completely evades me. For many people, and most men, a marriage with a bad sex life is like a restaurant with awful food. Rather than avoid the terrible food, few people would say, "But the service is great, the location is perfect, and it's clean as a whistle. Sure, you can go somewhere else for good food, but look at all you would be giving up." And most of us would rightfully look at such a person with amazement for suggesting that bad food is acceptable for a restaurant. However, many of those same people will insist that a bad sex life is perfectly fine in a marriage. :scratchhead:


I agree that sex is a very vital part of any marriage. However, in this restaurant marriage analogy the husband is part owner of the place. He can find out why the food is bad and do relational things to bring the quality up! 

This is like a partnership thing for the restaurant. Terrible food would come from both partners mistrusting each other b/c one partner thinks the other partner is only in it for themselves.

This is what I gather from the restaurant analogy. This is my take, and may not reflect the true meaning of the analogy. If I am wrong on this, then I will admit to it when shown to be wrong.

Secrecy, mistrust, confusion, and non-relationship practices make the marriage a cold war of sorts. Instead of working together to make mind blowing "food"... they make assumptions about each other, and do not work together to make amazing "food" (read: sex) together.

It is unfortunate that one married partner may have their hormones out of balance, maybe their church taught them that sex is evil, maybe their mother told them to give just enough to land a man, and then shut off the sex engine. Are these insurmountable problems? 

I think all these influences can create a neurosis that makes a person use sex as leverage for personal power, or cause them to shut off being sexual all-together.

However, not every low drive wife has a low drive for these reasons. I think that there were some great examples of this posted throughout this thread. This whole thread would make for a good study on what I am talking about.

I think it is dangerous to lump every LD wife into the category of "unable to share in sexual intimacy with her husband, or wife who uses sexual withholding as an instrument of power over her husband."


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## Pravius (Dec 12, 2012)

I am in the same exact position as you, and many people on this forum. I have a very high sex drive, my wife does not. My wife will oblige to have sex with me whenever I want for the most part, but it's very dry passionless sex. She lays there and clearly has no interest in participating. I have to ask her to do anything to me, she will NEVER willingly do it. 

All I want in life is to feel desired and wanted by the person that I love most. I give it to her and all I want is it back and in my mind it's so incredibly easy. 

You are not alone. I am actually debating divorce. I have personally sacrificed so much for my marriage (I want kids, she doesnt want more.. so much more) and I am just not willing to sacrifice this. 

As a man I need this. I need this to feel confident, independent, secure and if my woman can't make me feel that way then I need to move on. 

Sorry for the rant... you are not alone!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Rough Patch Sewing said:


> I agree that sex is a very vital part of any marriage. However, in this restaurant marriage analogy the husband is part owner of the place. He can find out why the food is bad and do relational things to bring the quality up!
> 
> This is like a partnership thing for the restaurant. Terrible food would come from both partners mistrusting each other b/c one partner thinks the other partner is only in it for themselves.


My analogy was more of the husband as a consumer and the wife as a supplier. Yes, husbands can do some work to improve the sex in a marriage. But, the wife still has to accept and fire up the ovens. And it's just not always possible. As in this thread, sometimes the communication happens and the two people just aren't willing to come together.



Rough Patch Sewing said:


> I think it is dangerous to lump every LD wife into the category of "unable to share in sexual intimacy with her husband, or wife who uses sexual withholding as an instrument of power over her husband."


There are obvious exceptions. However, people are generally just people, rather than snowflakes. People tend to want the same things, have the same problems, and react the same way to stimuli. So, the patterns that we see on this board are patterns for a reason.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

C, 
This theme cannot be repeated often enough. It ties back to reciprocity. Your H wants an experience with you. Sex is not something he does to you. 

And because of that a has fully aligned with your (very typical) female responsive desire. 

It also helps that he is really into you and always has been as that prevents the all too common 'irritation' the LD partner may feel when they first realize 'oh my partner wants sex'.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that you should not marry someone whose sex drive is this much different than yours. There are plenty of high drive women who understand that frequent sex is part of a good, healthy relationship/marriage.


God/Science/Tom Cruise bless those women. :smthumbup:


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## Rough Patch Sewing (Apr 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> My analogy was more of the husband as a consumer and the wife as a supplier. Yes, husbands can do some work to improve the sex in a marriage. But, the wife still has to accept and fire up the ovens. And it's just not always possible. As in this thread, sometimes the communication happens and the two people just aren't willing to come together.
> 
> 
> There are obvious exceptions. However, people are generally just people, rather than snowflakes. People tend to want the same things, have the same problems, and react the same way to stimuli. So, the patterns that we see on this board are patterns for a reason.



This is true. However, due diligence needs to be in place before lumping a wife into that catagory. It may take some work to chip away at these sexual issues. Sadly, some cases are rock solid and can't be cracked open for a sexual relationship in a marriage.

AnonGuyinhistwenties did his due diligence it seems and prevented his ending up in a sexless marriage, because when he tried to deal with it relationally she would not budge. He took that as a sign and left the relationship and possible future marriage on good terms as friends.

That is a brilliant move. If she is willing to work on it with a heart to make the needed changes, then there is hope... the ice can begin to thaw.

If she is not and will not try then hope is strained, perhaps to the point of futility.

Thank you for clarifying your analogy btw. And, I agree the pattern is there and can be relied upon if there is no willingness or desire to make the ovens heat up. I suggest looking into any perscription drug side-effects, hormone balances, life situation, stress management, getting away from it all, having relational stability, etc before deciding it is a lost cause - tho it may be.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SGF,
TAM is a self selected group and therefore subject to a high level of statistical bias. 

As for the situation you describe, while common it is not inevitable. You mention honeymoon issues. 

And as you have found, if you tolerate bad treatment you get it. 

Choosing to have children with a woman who started jerking you around sexually on e honeymoon produced a result that you dislike but can't be surprised by.


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