# Is this abuse?



## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

My husband is very very sensitive to pain. It's ridiculous. He is constantly stubbing his toe (almost daily) cutting his finger... Banging his head. It's crazy. Anyway, I have seen him get an evil look when our son accidentally hurts him. He's 4. About a year ago my son was playing and ran over his foot and he threw my son down. He said it's just a normal reflex. I told him to suck it up but let it go... And just said be more conscious of your "reflexes". 

Today my husband was stretching his leg on the bed. My son was bouncing around and he accidentally hit him in the groin. I saw it happen. My husband screamed so I turned around and then... With about a 3 second delay he kicked our son in the side. He had that angry look again. This time my son couldn't even breathe (he's not a crier). I picked him up and held him for a good 5 minutes as he tried to catch his breathe. My husband said it was his "reflex". Now I know the groin is a bad spot .. But as usual.. His bark was way bigger than the injury. He was fine. After he saw our son... He got up and walked over.. He was not incapacitated. Now his leg was right there while ge was stretching... And he did just let it go... But something looked aggressive to me. 

I consoled our son.. Husband apologized and the day moved on... But I am just worried. Is that normal?
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## greeeneyedwife (Oct 16, 2010)

So if he's at work and his boss accidentally steps on his foot is he going to do something violent toward his boss? 

If my husband ever did anything like that to my kids when they were little I'd be ticked. He's a grown up, and your son is a child. He needs to learn to control his "reflexes".


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Thank you. I honestly felt even more concerned about his response AFTER it happened. I wondered if my son broke a rib... And my husband didn't say much other than "that's why you shouldn't be jumping on daddy". He apologized but it seemed like it was a burden for him. 

This is just making me sick inside....


if he's at work and his boss accidentally steps on his foot is he going to do something violent toward his boss? 

If my husband ever did anything like that to my kids when they were little I'd be ticked. He's a grown up, and your son is a child. He needs to learn to control his "reflexes".[/QUOTE]
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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

needopinion said:


> My husband is very very sensitive to pain. It's ridiculous. He is constantly stubbing his toe (almost daily) cutting his finger... Banging his head. It's crazy. Anyway, I have seen him get an evil look when our son accidentally hurts him. He's 4. About a year ago my son was playing and ran over his foot and he threw my son down. He said it's just a normal reflex. I told him to suck it up but let it go... And just said be more conscious of your "reflexes".
> 
> Today my husband was stretching his leg on the bed. My son was bouncing around and he accidentally hit him in the groin. I saw it happen. My husband screamed so I turned around and then... With about a 3 second delay he kicked our son in the side. He had that angry look again. This time my son couldn't even breathe (he's not a crier). I picked him up and held him for a good 5 minutes as he tried to catch his breathe. My husband said it was his "reflex". Now I know the groin is a bad spot .. But as usual.. His bark was way bigger than the injury. He was fine. After he saw our son... He got up and walked over.. He was not incapacitated. Now his leg was right there while ge was stretching... And he did just let it go... But something looked aggressive to me.
> 
> ...


In my home country if that was witnessed and reported your son would have been examined by a doctor and more than likely removed from the home and taken into care.

Your husband needs telling probably by a man, his father, your father someone like that.

Bob


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Honestly ... This is on the heels of some major marital problems. So I think this is the sign I. Need 

It's time to file...he clearly is failing our family. Am I overreacting? I just started crying when I saw my son in such extreme pain. I'm sure I am emotional....





AFEH said:


> In my home country if that was witnessed and reported your son would have been examined by a doctor and more than likely removed from the home and taken into care.
> 
> Your husband needs telling probably by a man, his father, your father someone like that.
> 
> Bob


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I knew a guy like that. No. It isn't normal. It's not even in the ball park of normal.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

You asked if it was abuse. In a word? YES. I don't give a rat's a** about his so-called "reflexes". A reflex is an involuntary reaction. Raising your leg to kick your child isn't an involuntary reaction. 
You kick my 4yo child, I'm gonna kick YOU...out the door. 
I would think that if it were truly INvoluntary, he'd be beside himself with remorse. None of this "that's why you shouldn't be jumping on daddy" crap. Sounds like blameshifting to me. 
You've got an issue here. You mentioned other issues within the marriage, but this one has the potential to become explosive. 
Of course you were emotional! You saw your husband kick your child, and your child in pain! I'd have been furious. But I'm one that doesn't believe in the putting of one's hands on another for any reason. And that includes children. 
So...this leaves you begging the question of what to do....


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## Blue Eyes (Oct 19, 2010)

It's your job to protect your baby no matter who the person is who is hurting him. You need to document each incident with dates, leave & seek supervised visitation. I had to do it for my kids and brought them to see a counselor as well. My daughter was only 4 but she had problems for years because of it. If you don't stop this now, your son may grow up to abuse his kids. Your son needs you to be strong.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

My husband lashed out once towards our son when he accidently hit his dad. My son wasn't hurt, but I saw the terror of fear sweep over him, and that didn't set well with me. It took everything I had to keep from picking something up, and bashing his head in. I told my husband if he ever did that again I would call the police, and I mean that.
He hasn't done it since. He also used the reflex excuse. If you don't take action it will continue. Next time your child maybe seriously injured.

Just curious, how does your husband react towards you if you accidently hit him?


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

I am so nervous that I'm overreacting. He SWEARS that this was not on purpose and was his reflex. He was sitting Indian style when it happened... Stretching. Now here's the thing. I talked my son and I told him he could always tell me if someone hurt me. Again he's 4 but he said daddy only hurts him when he's mad. But he said non chalantly that he thinks daddy will hurt him everytime he gets mad. 

Is it possible that a 4 year old is telling non sense or do I have to listen to my gut and throw my husband out. I really truly believe these are isolated incidents. My husband says he will "mention my concerns" to his therapist at his next apt. But that's not until 2 weeks!

My son still says he misses daddy when he's at work so he definitely is not withdrawn. 

I made an apt with a child therapist today... But I'm trying to figure out if I should move. My husband loves that boy. But then again I have NEVER hurt my son no matter how badly his missteps have hurt me. 




4sure said:


> My husband lashed out once towards our son when he accidently hit his dad. My son wasn't hurt, but I saw the terror of fear sweep over him, and that didn't set well with me. It took everything I had to keep from picking something up, and bashing his head in. I told my husband if he ever did that again I would call the police, and I mean that.
> He hasn't done it since. He also used the reflex excuse. If you don't take action it will continue. Next time your child maybe seriously injured.
> 
> Just curious, how does your husband react towards you if you accidently hit him?


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## Bloodymary (Oct 10, 2010)

I would have a very hard time not kicking his ass myself first...but I would walk outside my home with my son, call a lawyer, ask him if I should call 911 or the non-emergency number, (whichever one would be better for me during court proceedings, if it is not an emergency of course). Then call and file a report. My babies are my soul...all that's left of it at least. No one, not even their father...my lover/husband has the right to ABUSE them. 

My husband treats MY dog like he's a piece of crap...if that somehow transfers to my children...I would def. leave....


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## Tootsiepop (Sep 7, 2009)

YES...this is ABUSE all in capital letters!

Who's the adult here? We are talking about a 4 yr. old and a grown man! Don't give me this "sensitive" stuff! He is abusive and dramatic to boot!

Please do what you know in your heart you have to do! No more denial!


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

To answer the question here...no he's never hit me. He squeezed my arm once and I got in his face. He never did it again

Tonight my husband is saying he will go to therapy (in 2 weeks) and understands why I want take my son to a child therapist. He is less defensive. Should I separate during this time or allow him to live here? I don't know what to believe. He's such a good dad normally... But my son was really hurt. I would do anything not to hurt my son.. Reflex or not. 


OTE=Tootsiepop;197333]YES...this is ABUSE all in capital letters!

Who's the adult here? We are talking about a 4 yr. old and a grown man! Don't give me this "sensitive" stuff! He is abusive and dramatic to boot!

Please do what you know in your heart you have to do! No more denial![/QUOTE]
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

So tonight my son... Out of the blue said "daddy you only hit me when you are mad right?". My husband got so upset and depressed. He was withdrawn etc and said he doesn't know where all this coming from. That he never hits him... Except for a spanking here or there... And the most recent incidents described above. He is dumbfounded. Well I informed him that I have an appointment with a child psych this Thursday. He got upset and said I want to run this all by my therapist first. I said well your appointment is 7 days away. He said yes. I said if you can get in before my child psych appt great... But I am not delaying this appointment. He was clearly upset. I said I'm sorry he is the priority. 

Then he started googling child abuse and read aloud the outward symptoms. My son doesn't really have any. He said see.. He has none of these and you are trying to call me a child abuser?

I just shook my head and walked away. He says he will get help... But should I be patient and wait it out with him in the house? I am just so confused. 






needopinion said:


> To answer the question here...no he's never hit me. He squeezed my arm once and I got in his face. He never did it again
> 
> Tonight my husband is saying he will go to therapy (in 2 weeks) and understands why I want take my son to a child therapist. He is less defensive. Should I separate during this time or allow him to live here? I don't know what to believe. He's such a good dad normally... But my son was really hurt. I would do anything not to hurt my son.. Reflex or not.
> 
> ...


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## whynotme (May 18, 2010)

It's abuse. It really is. It's the first signs of it.

I would guess the reason why you're feeling confused is because your head is warring with your gut.

Your gut knows kicking a child is NEVER right and there is NO excuse for it.

Your head is thinking, "this is my husband. everybody gets angry sometimes. he's really sad about it. he loves my son all the other times." You don't want to believe your husband is this bad.

Believe me, I know of what I speak. My ex not only threatened to hit me during an argument, but he also pushed our cat into a wall because the cat came in the bedroom meowing, and woke him up before the alarm. He slammed him into the wall for it. The cat walked around shaking his head for a week.

One day what happened to my cat can happen to your son. I remember thinking, if he can't stand a cat meowing, what's he going to do when a baby's crying?

Please, for yourself and your son, you have GOT to leave him. If he can do this to his own child...it's very rare for people who are like this to become truly cured. Usually they are lost causes, unless they go to jail or someone dies. 

Don't let it get that far.

-WNM

PS after the divorce my ex asked if he could have the cat live with him. I told him no way can you have this cat, this cat stays with me. And all I have to do to remember is pet him and feel the bump on his head that is still there. I am ashamed I let it happen. But we got out with our lives.


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Can I ask this? Putting Saturdays kicking incident aside.. Is it Normal for a man/parent to throw a child backwards when they bite the adult or accidentally step on them? My husband WILL admit that he has a tendency to have an aggressive response to my sons missteps. Is THAT normal? I have never done it... But he did throw my son off the bed last year when he hurt him while screwing around. But my son was not hurt.. It was just a light push. 

I just feel terrible that I may be overreacting because my husband swears Saturday was an accident. He says he didn't realize where he was at when this "reflex" happened. 

My husband was up all night. But what was so interesting is .. While he said he was "destroyed" by what our son said... He said that he's scared he's going to go to jail!

I said the ONLY thing you should be worried about is losing our son! You aren't going to go to JAIL unless all this escalates etc...

I am just a wreck. Am I being manipulated? 




-WNM

PS after the divorce my ex asked if he could have the cat live with him. I told him no way can you have this cat, this cat stays with me. And all I have to do to remember is pet him and feel the bump on his head that is still there. I am ashamed I let it happen. But we got out with our lives.[/QUOTE]
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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Funny, you keep using the possessive when you refer to your son. You refer to him as 'my son'. Until your post above, I presumed that your husband was not the boy's father.

Therapy and taking a look at yourself is never a bad thing. 

Kicking your child in the ribs is.

It is distinctly NOT adult behavior. It displays a gross lack of self-control.

Don't understand why you would think you are being manipulated? You are looking for a solution. Sounds like he is willing to look for a solution as well.


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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

Thank you for your feedback.* The reason I asked if I was being manipulated is that I am so unsure as to whether the kick in the ribs was truly a "reflex/accident" from being accidentally hit in the groin while in a seated postion -- holding his leg back while stretching.** I wondered if that is a real possibility?* If it's not -- I think I'm being manipulated.
*
My husband this morning asked if we could avoid going to a child therapist and just talk with our son together tonight.* He wants to avoid the therapist.* He said he would have to bring up the situation with the therapist in a round about way ...since she might report it to Child Protective Services.
*
He is still worried about going to jail...but in the same breathe ...tells me that the most important thing is our son.
*
I guess what I am asking here -- is if he does agree to go to therapy after all over this -- do I really need to get him out?* Would YOU as a parent -- separate?*
*
I see such a normally well mannered dad - who appears to love his son.* So when I see these few "blips" on the radar --I begin to wonder if he is truly a danger to us.* This is such sporadic.*
*
My therapist also tells ME that I am acting like an abuse victim by making excuses.** But, she has heard a lot of drama about my husband over the last year.* I can tell she wants to get me to file divorce -- but I'm definitely scared to be on my own.*
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## needopinion (Sep 10, 2010)

I really need some advice. My husband requested that we both talk with our son last night. He wants to do that instead of actually talking to a therapist because he is concerned about the CPS reporting. 

He started the conversation by asking our son if he understand that what happed with the kick -- was an accident. My son isnstantly said no - daddy - that wasn't an accident. That's why I keep telling Mommy you hurt me. My husband said NO it was an accident I didn't mean to hurt you at all. My son still said - no I think you were mad at me. 

My husband just wrapped it up by saying that he won't even be spanking him anymore. Only longer time outs.

He now feels that we should not take our son to the therapist and he says he will work on himself. He did NOT move up his own therapy appointment like I asked him to...he said "let's just talk to him (our son)".

I just don't know ...I'm so torn. Maybe the incident where he was hit in the groin was indeed an accident. Notice he's no longer calling it a reflex. I think he just wasn't thinking about protecting our 4 year old -- he was just thinking about his pain. He let his leg go and didn't care where it landed. Was it intentional? Boy - I feel confused.

What would you do?


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## workin' (Jun 3, 2010)

I would see the child therapist. They are trained in these situations. These "blips" could have been much worse, and only by chance, they weren't. A grown man, kicking a 4 year old in the ribs could do severe damage. A grown man, pushing a child off the bed, could do severe damage. Both therapists should be able to help here. 

It also seems your husband is more afraid of the consequences of his actions, rather than finding a way to stop it from happening again. IMO, he should have called his therapist at the latest, the next day, and insisted on getting in there. 

See what the therapist advises you to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Normally, I'm the first person to urge people to leave abuse. But I have to say that, in this instance, I want to suggest that you do allow him to see his therapist - and maybe you go, too - before kicking him out. Many people are raised with bad coping skills, and if he saw 'reflexes' in his childhood, his brain has been hardwired to use that coping skill. It doesn't necessarily mean that he is abusive.

I think the real question here is whether the child truly is experiencing more than this one instance, or is going along with the 
'chill' in the air and speaking of hitting when he doesn't really know what it means (as in abuse); kids do that sometimes. 

Let his child psychologist get to the truth, and then decide.

The real issue here is whether he does it more often, like when you're not around.


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