# Still in love with my wife...what to do??



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Hey, all. Throughout my tough and recent time, I've scoured the internet to find some sort of reason as to why things are happening and the reason why they are. Here is my story. It's a bit "all over the place". I apologize in advance for that. It's going to be a long read. But, PLEASE. Any advice I can get is helpful. As things pop into my head, I will put them down here: 

My wife and I are headed for divorce at the moment. Our relationship has had its ups and downs, just like any other. When we met in college, things were tough at first because I was so resistant in being with someone. I had recently gotten over a very bad on & off relationship with an ex. I had wanted to play my options. But there was something about this girl I couldn't let go of. We did long distance (PA to NJ) during that summer. We still were very close. Our families liked us and each other. 

At some point, she began to act different. I made her go to her doctor (I came along) and she was diagnosed with major depression and anxiety. It was a long & tough road for the both of us. I had a hard time dealing with it because I never had before. After my ignorance, I studied up. I observed her. Went to every doctor visit. I was supportive in giving her anything she needed to feel better. She still has her bouts to this day.

We progressed anyway. I moved from NJ to here with her. We had to stay with her parents until I could get on my feet with a job. We moved in together, but her depression began to get worse. She was unable to work. I would have to tend to all of the household duties because she just couldn't get herself to do anything. Dishes. Laundry. Dinner. Cleaning. She was dependent on me. I was okay with that because I love her and that's what she needed right now was for me to be strong while we try to sort her out. I made enough money to support us both, but, life happens. Emergencies and situations had us to the point where I couldn't handle it anymore on my own. I worked a lot of hours in a week to keep us afloat. We had had so many arguments about her working & helping out so we can get back ahead. It got to the point where it was just a cycle and she didn't wind up working at all. I managed to maintain what we had. It was a lot to take on. Caring for her, tending to her on an emotional level, meanwhile trying to keep myself straight and work long hours. Not to mention my own feelings.

Things wound up getting better. She got better. I proposed. We got married. Things were great. We were on an emotional high. Now, here is where things get bad again.

I unfortunately lost my job around the holidays last year. I made a good amount of money again, so she didn't have to work. We lost our insurance (which means no more meds for her) and we had little savings. We fought again. I tried every single day to find a job. I went to interviews. I couldn't land a job. We had fought again. I was frustrated because she didn't even bring up the fact she would need to work at this point. For me, it didn't seem fair. I know she has her issues, but we need to do what we can. She landed a job at a local gym as a receptionist part-time. I wound up finally finding a job that pays a decent amount, but now we need two incomes to make up for the back rent, late bills, etc. With this, we for sure, had drifted apart. To me, this was different from the past. I work so much and worry so much about our finances. I had no choice but to put my job first, or else we would be homeless. We became more like roommates at this point. We barely went out. There was little affection. It seemed like a rut/habit we both just accepted. We even had a huge argument in which I stated just that. I felt like a roommate. I always had to initiate sex. I always had to do this and that. I said if things don't change, I want a divorce.

Fast forward to last month. I start to feel us drifting more and more. But with both of us working, we barely had enough energy to do much of anything, let alone the funds to do it. She had said that she wanted to go out one Friday night with her friend and a friend of her friend (both in relationships). I told her to go out and have fun. It's good to do that without me being there all of the time. I had hurt my knee at work that day, so dancing was a no-go to me. It got to be about 3am and I wake up on the couch with no word from her. She finally messages me and tells me that she's staying at her friend's place. I figured she had been drinking, the friend lives close to the club so it's a safe bet.

The next day her family had a surprise anniversary party for her grandparents. She came home and she seemed a bit "off". I chalked it up to her still possibly feeling the effects of being out the night before. We got ready and went out. She pretty much didn't give me much attention while out. This is her family that I haven't really met yet. I felt as if I wasn't getting treated like a husband. She was acting a bit strange. That night, she just shot up to bed and didn't say much. I knew something was wrong now.

The next day, she had work. I forgot she did. I was making breakfast and I messaged her asking if she wanted me to make extra for her when she got back to the apartment. She told me "no, but we really need to talk." I wasn't going to wait another five hours. So, she finally told me she "ran into" one of her coworkers from the gym at the club. They danced. Drank. Kissed. She apologized and felt like a terrible person. I immediately lost it at that point. She wouldn't tell me his name or anything. I went to her friend she went out with, and she gave me a name. My wife had to babysit for a family friend for a week starting that night. She got back, didn't say anything. Packed her stuff up. On her way out of the door, I told her, "Tell A (using the first letter of his name for privacy reasons) I said HI!" She looked back at me and was shocked I knew. She got protective over this guy and just walked out and left. 

The next couple of days were tense. It was anger back and forth. I even went so far as to message this guy, who was a total jerk, to put it politely. A said he was in love with my wife and wanted to peruse her. He's four years younger than her (22). By the way, my wife is 26. My wife and I had talked a couple of times between then. I begged. I tried to reason. None of it worked. It pushed her so far away. I suggested we try counseling together and try a 30 day period to see how we feel and interact. If at the end of the 30 days, we are not on the same page, we will get the divorce she wants. Therapy was not good. She had voiced on a scale of 1-10, she had the desire of 5 to save the relationship. Even so, she came back for a couple of days. There was no effort on her part. She went out one night and didn't come back until late. She went to go think by herself for three hours.

The next day, she tells me that "This isn't what she wants" and that divorce is what will happen. I told her to please pack her stuff up and get out. 

The kicker for me was after therapy, she told me she cut A off. One morning before work, I see her phone lying on the ground next to the bed, face down. I decide to take a look. I wish I had not. The things they were saying to each other, makes it look as if they were already together. Sexual things. Love things. Needless to say, we have been separated for over a month now. I let go and gave her space. We keep in light contact. 

We also had this contractual issue. Since we owe back rent, two days before she left, the landlord had us sign an agreement to pay X amount of dollars per week to be caught up. That's the main reason I contact her. We agreed to do half and half to be fair. The landlord contacts me and is about to evict me because she has not paid her half. Had I known she was going to leave, I would not have signed. My W had given me a lot of anger and attitude, in which I got irritated by and gave it back. I've learned to try to handle it better. 

As for the now, things are still confusing. I know I have not been "Husband of the Year". I feel like I tried very hard, but at the end of the day, I was simply depleted. We had talked small, but somehow one of us always brings emotions into it. She would say things like "I want my last name back", "this just isn't for me right now", "I just don't feel that way about you anymore". On the plus side, she brought up why she hadn't responded to me or the landlord. She was going through some things and didn't feel like bringing it up or telling me because I wouldn't understand. I reassured her (because I know most people have turned their backs to her, leaving her alone) that she is still cared about. Even if she has ill feelings towards me, I will at least be there with an ear to listen. That's all. She wound up telling me she doesn't think she will ever find anyone to be with. She thinks she's a monster. But, her reasoning was iffy. She gave me a list of things she wants in a man. I have those qualities, but she has fallen out of love with me. She kicked A to the curb because he wanted too much from her and tried to change her (they had slept together, by the way). I'm sure the rebound would have ended sooner or later. She still reaches out randomly or will like certain things on my facebook.

Also...I had decided to get into her facebook. That's where she chats with people the most. She left her password up. I tracked what she was saying and doing. I kept screenshots just in case we do go through a divorce, I have that in my back pocket. She was telling her best friend (same one she went out with that night) that A was the one. She's in love with him. She had him over that same night we had therapy.

Now to the bottom line: I still love my wife. I'm trying the dating scene. I just want my wife back. I have my bouts mentally from day to day. Yesterday I was ready to continue marching on. Today, I miss her. Not just having her around, but her as a person. Her negative traits that push people away, I like about her. I have given her space (She lives with a friend). I do NC unless it's about finances. Though she is adamant about becoming divorced, I don't want to. I don't believe in it. I know I have caused her pain over the years, but she has done the same to me. I have owned up to my mistakes and now am changing back to who I once was. A better me. She still has some of her belongings at the apartment. She wants to keep it there for a bit until we can get her off of the lease. She claims to have the divorce papers, but her dad told her to hold off for a bit until they can find time to help her with it and file. Not sure why they keep stalling if she's so unhappy being with me...

I had my bouts with not sleeping much. Not eating much. Not performing well at my job. I'm more stable now. But emotionally, I'm torn. I'm still in love with her. I believe that I may have neglected her (not intentional, but I did), didn't validate her feelings, and didn't treasure her the way I did earlier on in the relationship. I'm only talking about my personal faults here. To point any finger at her at this point is not my objective. 

Is there anything I can do at this point to try to reconcile? Is it too soon? Keep going NC? Start doing LC? Should I keep hope alive?


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

The more you chase her, the faster she'll run away.

Immerse yourself in your work, hobbies, and interests. Do the things you were doing when she fell in love with you - before you changed to this domesticated animal she feels comfortable kicking around.


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> I had my bouts with not sleeping much. Not eating much. Not performing well at my job. I'm more stable now. But emotionally, I'm torn. I'm still in love with her. I believe that I may have neglected her (not intentional, but I did), didn't validate her feelings, and didn't treasure her the way I did earlier on in the relationship. I'm only talking about my personal faults here. To point any finger at her at this point is not my objective.
> 
> Is there anything I can do at this point to try to reconcile? Is it too soon? Keep going NC? Start doing LC? Should I keep hope alive?


Who have you exposed this to? Tell her parents. Tell her siblings. Tell her friends. Be polite. Tell them what's going on, and that you don't know if you can save your marriage, and if they can help you need it now.

Find out where the guy lives, and move all her stuff to his house. See if he really wants her when it's not all just fun and games, and she's moving in her furniture.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> The more you chase her, the faster she'll run away.
> 
> Immerse yourself in your work, hobbies, and interests. Do the things you were doing when she fell in love with you - before you changed to this domesticated animal she feels comfortable kicking around.


Returntozero,

At this point, I have decided to do just that. My job is giving me a promotion-type thing very soon, so my work load is increasing. I have also decided to start working out last week to take better care of my body. I've made excuses and put so much on hold for years for her. I figured it's about time I do what I want for *me.*


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Who have you exposed this to? Tell her parents. Tell her siblings. Tell her friends. Be polite. Tell them what's going on, and that you don't know if you can save your marriage, and if they can help you need it now.
> 
> Find out where the guy lives, and move all her stuff to his house. See if he really wants her when it's not all just fun and games, and she's moving in her furniture.


Kivlor,

I have exposed this to her father. Her mother already knew before I said anything. She must have told her. I kept her cousin in the loop because I'm still friends with her. She's good people. Doesn't agree with anything she's doing at all.

How would involving her family help? My wife is _extremely_ stubborn. Once she's set in her ways, it's damn near impossible to shake her from that or to influence. 

With the rent deal...I had tried to message her for _days_ before she responded. She claimed to be going through something and didn't think I would understand. She got mad, so I backed off for a bit. I let her know she was still cared about, and I'm willing to listen. Only listen. She later on told me she kicked this new guy to the curb because he was like her, but worse. He wanted her to change too much, was not enough of a "man" for her, was a bit of a pig (talking about other women in front of her), didn't like her only friend (everyone else pretty much turned their back to her). The OM was a dud anyway. Still lived at home. No car. Works as a janitor and at an arcade. 4 years younger than her. Only a rebound, that we all knew would die out eventually.


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Kivlor,
> 
> I have exposed this to her father. Her mother already knew before I said anything. She must have told her. I kept her cousin in the loop because I'm still friends with her. She's good people. Doesn't agree with anything she's doing at all.
> 
> ...


Who does she trust most? Who does she respect most? Those are the people who can weigh in and convince her to stop. That is the first reason for exposing. Pick people who will support you and weigh in to tell her she's wrong. 

She doesn't care what you think. You need someone else to help take this on. 

Do you have kids? I didn't see you mention any.


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

I don't agree with most of the advice here.

1) Your wife has a history of depression and anxiety, of unknown cause. You don't specify the type or duration of the treatment, nor the results.

2) You have issues currently which go back a while that you are both aware of yet haven;t really addressed.

3) You both seem to care for each other, in spite of the ongoing issues.

4) You tried therapy for only 30 days...that's 4 sessions?

Here's the correct advice: Find a very good psychologist who specializes in marital issues and go once or twice a week for 6 months, and call a truce or "Time out" on the divorce or any fights or arguments and see where you are when a thorough evaluation and treatment has enough time to dig in and see what's left.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Who does she trust most? Who does she respect most? Those are the people who can weigh in and convince her to stop. That is the first reason for exposing. Pick people who will support you and weigh in to tell her she's wrong.
> 
> She doesn't care what you think. You need someone else to help take this on.
> 
> Do you have kids? I didn't see you mention any.


She looks up to her father, and grandparents the most. She hasn't been talking to anyone for the most part, at least in the context of a divorce. She occasionally goes to her grandparents house to see them and hang with her grandmother. She doesn't say much to her parents or anyone else because everyone has sided with me at this point. Everyone is confused as to why she is doing what she is doing. She's being very hush-hush about it all. I take it because she *knows *it's all wrong, and doesn't want to hear the truth from anyone. Her family has all stated to me that they are going to be "hands off" because it's between me and her.

What do you suggest I say to her grandmother? She would be the best option, IMHO. She helped raise her. She's seen how happy my wife was when we were together. She knew I was in love with her. She's even gone so far as to say something to the effect of, "that man is in love with you. The things he's doing and done for you, no man ever would."

No. No kids. We had discussed it in the past. It was on the table, but we needed to get ourselves in a better place financially first.


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Unicus said:


> I don't agree with most of the advice here.
> 
> 1) Your wife has a history of depression and anxiety, of unknown cause. You don't specify the type or duration of the treatment, nor the results.
> 
> ...


I don't think there's much that can be done therapy-wise until the OM is out of the picture. 

I do agree with your basic assessment though. Therapy is going to be necessary. But why should he even bother trying to go to MC as long as his W is going home to OM?


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> But why should he even bother trying to go to MC as long as his W is going home to OM?


...Because it's the best (only) way to address their issues.

Your proposal of involving other family members sounds well intentioned, but most likely would result in the additional stress of a family feud. And, she's likely to be further enraged with H for snitching. Dropping her stuff off at his place is fine if H is done with her..which he's clearly not.

They need to build bridges, not burn them.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> I don't agree with most of the advice here.
> 
> 1) Your wife has a history of depression and anxiety, of unknown cause. You don't specify the type or duration of the treatment, nor the results.
> 
> ...


Please, let me tackle this accordingly, one at a time.

1)Yes. From my understanding, it didn't happen until we were together in college. It may have happened and slowly developed when she was younger, but was never diagnosed. She was on different types of medications until we could find the one that worked best with her. That and the right type of dosage and adjusting accordingly due to how she felt on them. It's a very tiring process for all involved.

2) Yes, there are many issues. Some have been repeated in our past. We never really got to discuss them, because she was wanting to leave and has left. I had wanted to talk, but she shows no interest in that. I figured she needed space, so whether she wants it or not, I gave that to her. Is that a bad move? I don't want to smother her or push her away farther than I already have. I want to talk about these things with her, no doubt. 

3)I still care for her very much. Even if she doesn't feel like she's "in love with me", I still want what's best for her. I want to see her grow and succeed in life. No matter what. She hasn't really said much to me about that other than in the beginning, "We have a history. I still care about you very much."

4)The therapy thing...okay. To clarify, I was in panic mode at the time. I wanted to fix this the right way. I offered us to go to therapy. We made it to _one session_ together. She still seemed to have her mind made up. She only wanted to go because I wanted to go. Not because she wanted to repair or fix the relationship. The 30 day "trial" was also my tossed up idea. My thought was, let's just see how we interact. Go to therapy. Try to work things out. If at the end of the 30 days, we aren't on the same page, I will go through with the divorce. No problem. At that point, we would have tried. But, the issue was, she never really attempted. She claimed to "not know how to try". Soon after, she said she didn't want this anymore. I believe the OM had some influence on her. But reality is, I don't know what her reasoning was for finally coming to her decision.

I appreciate the advice. But she's very set in her decision, but will not pull the trigger, so to speak. She will not go to therapy, and I don't want her to unless she wants to repair our relationship. She pretty much lied to the counselor we went to, to me, and wasted everyone's time and money. I believe deep in my heart she wants to come back and try. But for some reason, she has yet to come around or contact me in any way.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> I don't think there's much that can be done therapy-wise until the OM is out of the picture.
> 
> I do agree with your basic assessment though. Therapy is going to be necessary. But why should he even bother trying to go to MC as long as his W is going home to OM?


I had put this in a previous response. From what she tells me, she had kicked the OM to the curb...at least for now. He was like her, but worse. I guess it was like looking into a mirror for her.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> ...Because it's the best (only) way to address their issues.
> 
> Your proposal of involving other family members sounds well intentioned, but most likely would result in the additional stress of a family feud. And, she's likely to be further enraged with H for snitching. Dropping her stuff off at his place is fine if H is done with her..which he's clearly not.
> 
> They need to build bridges, not burn them.


I figured that as well. I don't want to bring anyone into our issues. It is between my wife and I. Plus, I think it would look suspicious if her family comes out of the woodowork, all saying the same things.

I thought about packing her stuff up, as it is too painful for me to look at. Her clothes, items, wedding pictures hung up. It hurts me to come to the apartment, alone, being forced to look at these things. It's a bit haunting. I hope that's understandable to all of you.

I am *wayyyyyy more than willing* to go to a counselor/therapist. Our communication has always had a "disconnect", if you will. We hear each other, but nobody seems to fully understand what the other is saying. Having some sort of mediator to help make the message clear would be _very_ ideal. But, in order to do that, again, she has to *want* to do this. At the moment, not even I, can figure out where her head is at. She seems to be doing well. But after 5 years of knowing her, she is having difficulty internally with this. If she is, she's covering it up with work and and OM (or an interest in one to fill my void).


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

I appreciate the additional info, but unless I missed something here, all 4 points are still valid, let me explain further.

1) She has an underlying psychiatric condition, which means she's vulnerable to relapses. Is the current situation the result of one? She is still on her meds? Is she under a psychiatrists care? Is someone monitoring her meds to see if they're working? Some people can safely come off their meds with no issues and others really cannot. How was this determined?

2) Long standing issues tend to fester and lead to despair. Despair and desperation are fertile emotional states for impulsiveness.

3) You both still seem to care about each other. That she has made a decision, yet cannot follow thru...we call that ambivalence...means it's not all bad for her.

4) Therapy takes time, especially when it's a crisis. Crisis=intensity, which by definition is more complicated and requires time.

Here's what I'd do: I'd let her know you really want to try therapy again, but this time, do it right: A good doc and a longer amount of time. If she refuses, file for divorce. 

If she's ambivalent, getting served might stir up the side of her that still cares and cause her to rethink her behaviors.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> I appreciate the additional info, but unless I missed something here, all 4 points are still valid, let me explain further.
> 
> 1) She has an underlying psychiatric condition, which means she's vulnerable to relapses. Is the current situation the result of one? She is still on her meds? Is she under a psychiatrists care? Is someone monitoring her meds to see if they're working? Some people can safely come off their meds with no issues and others really cannot. How was this determined?
> 
> ...


Okay. Duly noted!

1)When I lost my job, our insurance went with it. She hasn't been medicated or had any help in about 6 months or so. She hadn't done much to help her situation personally (diet, exercise, getting outside, etc). I had suggested earlier on that this may be her depression talking and making her decisions, but she obviously said that it is not. Also claims that the marriage was _making_ her depressed. I have seen her at her worst with this, and it seems like her depression. But hey, it's her body and she knows it best.

2) I can understand that. But what can I do about it if she isn't going to be receptive of anything? I had apologized shortly because she was being short with me. But, she was basically saying "yeah. oh well. at least you learned from it!" There has been no apology or acknowledgement on her part. At all.

3)What do you mean when you say "it's not all bad for her"?

4) Do you think suggesting that at this point would help much? She seems to be going about her life the same way I am, which is acting like the other person doesn't even exist. I'm doing me, and she is moving along as best as she can.

I would love to suggest this again. I would love to fix this. I will put my pride to the side and open up more than I ever have to let her back in. It's just going to be difficult to get her to see that. I'm not even sure if she's thought about any of this. What I mean by that is, for example, on her days off, does she think about us? Does she feel guilt? Remorse? Does she want to come back but is too prideful?


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Where is she living again, if she kicked OM to the curb??


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Where is she living again, if she kicked OM to the curb??


At first, she went to her parents. She wanted her own space and to not be reminded of what's going on. So she tried to stay with her aunt. She eventually decided she didn't want her there. Now, there's a single mom she babysat for. Still friends with her. She's a hippy and doesn't care much, so she's staying there. She didn't care that the OM spent the night there as long as they didn't make any noise.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Cheaters lie, hide and deny. I'd bet OM is still very much in the picture. You are plan B at best.

Good luck, you're gonna need it.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Cheaters lie, hide and deny. I'd bet OM is still very much in the picture. You are plan B at best.
> 
> Good luck, you're gonna need it.


If this is the case, what's the point of lying?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Ok, I think we're on to something here.

Re read your last response to 1).

Her actions now are highly impulsive and destructive..or at least self defeating..she's married to you yet openly involved with someone else. This, not indicative of wholesome judgement. Something is impairing that....these can be symptoms of depression. Regardless of her understanding of the cause (her biology, or the marriage, or you, or the phase of the moon), she admits to depression. That's key. People act irrationally when they're depressed, their actions are determined by emotional self preservation. Don't get too caught up on the probable cause, it's her admission of her depression that's key here.

Shes ambivalent b/c what she's doing doesn't show resolve, it isn't so much the result of you being a scum bag, but of her depression and her need to relieve that. Perhaps she's (wrongfully) assumed that a new relationship will lift her spirits, yet she also seems to still care about you. I know it's a paradox, but that's part of depression. The responses to it don't always make sense.

She sees it as "not that bad" meaning that she's not necessarily with the OM b/c of you, but b/c of her and her feelings. She's confused?

'Id start by reaching out to her..you are in contact with her?...and suggest therapy to try to find "A direction" b/c this is hard for you and you need to know if you're still married to her. You can also let her know she needs to make a choice.

I wouldn't go much further, try to keep it simple. You guys need to get to a doc and s/he needs to assess this and treat it properly.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> Ok, I think we're on to something here.
> 
> Re read your last response to 1).
> 
> ...


We have been in contact about once a week or so for one reason or another. Would forcing a decision make anything better? I realize it's just a suggestion, but it may get misconstrued as an ultimatum. I feel as if she is in fact confused, due to depression. I understand her actions from that perspective of needed to release her depression by testing waters. Eventually, she will hit a wall.

I want to treat it properly, but things are so dicey, I'm unsure of how to approach. In addition, how to I get the horse to not only go, but to drink the water? She doesn't want to do anything of the sort. I could suggest it, but the rejection rate is pretty high...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
It seems she is indeed confused. I believe that her confusion stems from having her way throughout life. When someone is labeled "strong willed" it is indicative of them having become accustomed to having everything their way. This is damaging for two major reasons.

First, having this delusion that life will always go your way and you will always get what you want sets the stage for severe shock when the reality hits and something does not go their way. Second, always having your own way causes one to take much for granted. In so doing, that which is taken for granted loses much if it value in their eyes, to the point of becoming worthless. Things, circumstances and even people are not relished and appreciated but rather seen as just another stepping stone through life.

Very simply put she is a spoiled brat that never matured because she never had to. She may very well be beyond any help that would result in any substantive change. You seem to care deeply for her and she would expect no less since, in her eyes, that is what is expected.

With no children involved it may behoove you to seriously consider your future with her. And consider also that as you continue to mature you will realize, more and more, how unhealthy and unwelcoming this situation is. You may find yourself years or even months from now wishing you had not stayed involved with her.

In order for there to be any real change on her part she must be able to realize that life owes her nothing and that it is important to appreciate all that she has and recognize it as valuable, maybe even irreplaceable. I do not believe she has that ability however. Therefore she will continue to behave in the only way she knows how. Consider it.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> She was dependent on me.


DH, I see a lot of myself in your post, so I will project. 

IMO your relationship is based on her being dependent on you. BTDT. You actually ENJOY taking care of her, making all the money, doing all the chores, addressing her mental state. Do you think she is incapable of living on her own because of her mental state/depression etc? You might be insecure, thinking that no other woman or no functioning independent woman would want you.

Are you the knight in shining armor type to rescue the helpless woman?

I know you love her. You asked for advice on how to get her back, not advice on whether or not you should divorce her. But you will get advice on both here. 

Through this site, I learned I am codependent. (See my signature line for a book by Melody Beattie - Codependent No More.) I spend all my energy caring for my wife, to the DETRIMENT of my marriage. It turns out that neither I nor my wife were happy with my behavior and actions. 

You need to work on yourself and determine what you want, what you really want, other than just having your wife return. She will make her own decisions, good or bad, and you cannot control her.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> It seems she is indeed confused. I believe that her confusion stems from having her way throughout life. When someone is labeled "strong willed" it is indicative of them having become accustomed to having everything their way. This is damaging for two major reasons.
> 
> First, having this delusion that life will always go your way and you will always get what you want sets the stage for severe shock when the reality hits and something does not go their way. Second, always having your own way causes one to take much for granted. In so doing, that which is taken for granted loses much if it value in their eyes, to the point of becoming worthless. Things, circumstances and even people are not relished and appreciated but rather seen as just another stepping stone through life.
> ...


I have already considered that a possibility. She also has a bad habit of starting things and dropping them. She's had an online business, wanted to be a cosplay model, entered beauty pageants. The one thing I have noticed about it, usually something happens during the process. At some point, when things get tough or "doesn't go her way", she finds a reason to not do things anymore.

She may have some skeletons in her closet that I'm unaware of. Her cousin tells me that she's a bit of a liar. Totally selfish. 

Even with all of these things, I married her for a reason. I knew she had flaws. I still love her, though. I want to be there for her when she faces these issues she has, if she ever decides to. I bet she's living in some fantasy world where conducting herself like this makes sense in her eyes. I get that you only want the best for yourself and to never settle. But when things get tough at some point (and they almost always do), you have to work at it. Hard. You can't keep running which is what she seems to be doing. I never really got a concrete and consistent reason as to why this is happening. The reason always changes.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> DH, I see a lot of myself in your post, so I will project.
> 
> IMO your relationship is based on her being dependent on you. BTDT. You actually ENJOY taking care of her, making all the money, doing all the chores, addressing her mental state. Do you think she is incapable of living on her own because of her mental state/depression etc? You might be insecure, thinking that no other woman or no functioning independent woman would want you.
> 
> ...


I will admit, I have had a bit of a "50s household" mentality to an extent. She had as well. It makes sense that she is on a kick right now, wanting to do for herself. I guess a part of it was her being tired of not having anything for herself. But, she always had the option to work and have and make her own...she just never took it.

I don't think I am that type to "rescue".

I know what I want, and I want my wife back. I have personal goals for myself that I will be attacking within the next couple of weeks. I know this is a new "version" of her, but I see similarities in the way she is now compared to how she was when we first met. I was attracted to her drive to be independent and goal-oriented. 

I'm aware I can't control her. I've already come to terms with that. The only thing I can control and be held accountable for is *me.* At this point, I can only take care of *me.*


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> I know what I want, and *I want my wife back. *


Why?


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

You love your cheating wife who doesn't love you because you have a heart.

You can't let go of your cheating wife who doesn't love you because you're not strong enough to do what you know needs to be done.

Which is divorce and start looking forward, not backward.

She doesn't love you. She cheated on you. She is having sex with another man (or men). She doesn't want to be married to you.

I have been in the same spot, exactly. And I still wanted her back.

But you know what? It's a very good thing that I didn't try that hard.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Why?


Other than the fact I took vows and a commitment when we got married, "for better or for worse" I meant it.

I want my wife back because she's strong. She's a bit different, which I always liked. She's been supportive when I've felt my lowest. When we met, I didn't think love was possible, but she showed me otherwise (sappy, I know). I love how passionate she gets about things. Her ability to read people. Her little attitude she gets from time to time. That cute face she makes when she's telling me something and trying not to laugh. How she balances me out and vice versa. Her love of traveling that we both share. 

We have unfinished business. I think these things are more than able to be dealt with in its own time. We hit a lot of emotional stalemates. Too much pride. Not enough communication. These things are able to be worked on and improved on both ends and collectively.

Is this the type of answer you were looking for?


----------



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Missing her or not this one seems done as done. It appears you have no children, you're young, you will easily bounce back. Being married young and having no financial security is a huge stresser, throw in your wife's depression and anxiety and it's a very tough situation.

Nothing you can really do but keep missing her and eventually meet someone else that makes that fade.

Sorry to hear your story, all too common these days.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> You love your cheating wife who doesn't love you because you have a heart.
> 
> You can't let go of your cheating wife who doesn't love you because you're not strong enough to do what you know needs to be done.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. I'm sorry that your situation didn't pan out good for you. Really.

I know what needs to be done. I can't walk away from something without giving it everything I have. I don't want to be stuck with "what if's". 

Be honest, if she doesn't want to be married to me, then tell me: why hasn't she filed, even though she has gotten told by her father to wait? Why hasn't she moved all of her stuff out of the apartment? Why does she still reach out from time to time? Why does she even want to talk? Why is she still trying to get emotional support from me? Why does she want to be friends?

I am looking forward and improving myself little by little in my own way. But, there's still one foot in the door. This was her idea and this is what she wants. She knows I do not. I'm not pulling said trigger. If this is the bed she may think she wants or has to have, then she will indeed lie in it.

Even with the other information provided (mental illness), you still believe the result and bottom line is the same? You don't think that things should be approached and thought about a little differently?


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

darkheavy said:


> Other than the fact I took vows and a commitment when we got married, "for better or for worse" I meant it.
> 
> I want my wife back because she's strong. She's a bit different, which I always liked. She's been supportive when I've felt my lowest. When we met, I didn't think love was possible, but she showed me otherwise (sappy, I know). I love how passionate she gets about things. Her ability to read people. Her little attitude she gets from time to time. That cute face she makes when she's telling me something and trying not to laugh. How she balances me out and vice versa. Her love of traveling that we both share.
> 
> ...


This is going to hurt but if she was on here she would not write similar endearing things about you. She would probably write them about the OM. This is going to suck and take a while to get over but you have to let her go. It's ok to be sad and angry but it's not ok to not move on with your life. You owe it to yourself as a human being to not let this destroy you. It's over buddy. The good news is that you have the rest of your life to find true happiness. You are still young and the world is yours.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

knobcreek said:


> Missing her or not this one seems done as done. It appears you have no children, you're young, you will easily bounce back. Being married young and having no financial security is a huge stresser, throw in your wife's depression and anxiety and it's a very tough situation.
> 
> Nothing you can really do but keep missing her and eventually meet someone else that makes that fade.
> 
> Sorry to hear your story, all too common these days.


Thank you. Again, I have my mental bouts with this from time to time. Some days, I feel hopeful that she'll realize the gravity of this whole situation and will try to reconcile. Other days, I say "F it!" and continue to march forward, thinking she won't come back.

It _is_ at lot of stress to deal with. I know that as a contributor to this. Which confuses me a bit. Only because when she knew she had to get a job, she had battled me on it and got mad about it. Now, she's as ambitious as ever. She's got a full time job at the gym she works at which is something she enjoys. Before that, she couldn't lift a finger?

I guess that part will stay a mystery to me...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> This is going to hurt but if she was on here she would not write similar endearing things about you. She would probably write them about the OM. This is going to suck and take a while to get over but you have to let her go. It's ok to be sad and angry but it's not ok to not move on with your life. You owe it to yourself as a human being to not let this destroy you. It's over buddy. The good news is that you have the rest of your life to find true happiness. You are still young and the world is yours.


Funny thing about that is, when she brought up the OM, she told me negative things about _him_. She wouldn't write all terrible things, as she knows we have a history together. The way I was with her (at least at some point) and took care of her, nobody has ever done for her. Not even her own parents.

Of course it's going to destroy me for a while. Someone I thought I was building something with, invested everything I physically could to, is just wiping their hands clean and leaving (at least seemingly).


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Other than the fact I took vows and a commitment when we got married, "for better or for worse" I meant it.
> 
> I want my wife back because she's strong. She's a bit different, which I always liked. She's been supportive when I've felt my lowest. When we met, I didn't think love was possible, but she showed me otherwise (sappy, I know). I love how passionate she gets about things. Her ability to read people. Her little attitude she gets from time to time. That cute face she makes when she's telling me something and trying not to laugh. How she balances me out and vice versa. Her love of traveling that we both share.
> 
> ...


I am not the one looking for answers. We want to help you find your own answers.

IMO you are hooked on your wife. You have put her on a pedestal. You feel incomplete without her - " I didn't think love was possible, but she showed me otherwise". You have to realize at some point you are no longer bound by your vows. You are not yet there yet.

Have you considered that your wife just does not want to come back? Do you love her enough to let her live the life she wants, even if you think that life is a long step down from her life with you?


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Now, she's as ambitious as ever. *She's got a full time job at the gym she works at which is something she enjoys.* Before that, she couldn't lift a finger?
> 
> I guess that part will stay a mystery to me...


This too is going to hurt....

It is a mystery to you that she got a full time job at the gym? Really? Ambitious of her? Really? She got a full time job there so as to spend as much time as possible with the guy she is banging. That is it. No other reason. She wants to be around him, flirt all day, then go somewhere and ****, whether at work or later at some other place.

Sorry but we have to help you open your eyes, even if the means hitting you with a very large stick.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Have you considered that your wife just does not want to come back? Do you love her enough to let her live the life she wants, even if you think that life is a long step down from her life with you?


Yes, I have considered that. But her actions do not match up. If she wants to not come back, why has she not moved all of her stuff out? Why has she not filed for divorce? Why is she still talking to me outside of business?

To me, if you're really that set on doing something, just do it. To me, some signals are being mixed. She says she done, but then she wants to go hang out and get drinks?

I know that it's a strong possibility that she may never come back. Or at least not come back any time soon. She's placing landmines around herself emotionally. Not facing the issues she has, not addressing the ones we had together, and unsure of where she is and where she wants to go. She's going to wind up doing a LOT of damage to herself by living this "life". It's pretty much a given. I know I can't do anything but let it happen. It's not over until it's over. She may wind up coming to me during the 90 day wait period (after you file for divorce) and want to work on everything. She may find herself coming to grips with this 900 days from now. She may never look back and just gloss over all of these things. In any event, I'm still going to do what I've been doing and that's work on myself. Become social again. Go back to school and finish my Bachelors. In the meantime...anything is possible. Pray for the best, prepare for the worst.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> This too is going to hurt....
> 
> It is a mystery to you that she got a full time job at the gym? Really? Ambitious of her? Really? She got a full time job there so as to spend as much time as possible with the guy she is banging. That is it. No other reason. She wants to be around him, flirt all day, then go somewhere and ****, whether at work or later at some other place.
> 
> Sorry but we have to help you open your eyes, even if the means hitting you with a very large stick.


I had never thought about that. It really sucks to see and hear. But, if that's true, why would she tell me that she kicked him to the curb? Was she fishing for me to try to come back to her?


----------



## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Thank you. Again, I have my mental bouts with this from time to time. Some days, I feel hopeful that she'll realize the gravity of this whole situation and will try to reconcile. Other days, I say "F it!" and continue to march forward, thinking she won't come back.
> 
> It _is_ at lot of stress to deal with. I know that as a contributor to this. Which confuses me a bit. Only because when she knew she had to get a job, she had battled me on it and got mad about it. Now, she's as ambitious as ever. She's got a full time job at the gym she works at which is something she enjoys. Before that, she couldn't lift a finger?
> 
> I guess that part will stay a mystery to me...


Yeah it sucks, but honestly you're in your 20's, no kids, and you've both had nothing but issues in the marriage. You two should still be in the honeymoon phase. The way you describe it, it sounded like someone in their 40's describing their 20 year marriage rather than young kids.

This one just wasn't meant to be. This may not go over well, but to me the easiest way to get over heartbreak is a few hook-ups and casual dating. If the physical piece is taken care of the mental piece comes along quicker, if both are in the pits it really sucks.

As for working and being real into this guy when she's shown severe depression in the past, she could be bi-polar I suppose.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

knobcreek said:


> Yeah it sucks, but honestly you're in your 20's, no kids, and you've both had nothing but issues in the marriage. You two should still be in the honeymoon phase. The way you describe it, it sounded like someone in their 40's describing their 20 year marriage rather than young kids.
> 
> This one just wasn't meant to be. This may not go over well, but to me the easiest way to get over heartbreak is a few hook-ups and casual dating. If the physical piece is taken care of the mental piece comes along quicker, if both are in the pits it really sucks.
> 
> As for working and being real into this guy when she's shown severe depression in the past, she could be bi-polar I suppose.


Haha! Yes. I agree. We felt like old people, too. I've already gotten to the hook-up part. I have needs, and they have not been fulfilled in a couple of months. No sense in waiting on her for that part. Especially after I found out what she had done. I thought it was "stooping down to her level" by doing so, but, hey...I have to fulfill those needs!

I thought she _might_ be bipolar. But that girl won't go to a doctor. The only reason she ever went was because I had to call, make the appointment, go with her, etc. Now, I believe she may be in denial. I am by no means trying to blame everything on her depression, but I know how she gets when she has her issues with it. This type of behavior looks exactly like it. It's not the _only _reason, but a huge one.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Yes, I have considered that. But her actions do not match up. If she wants to not come back, why has she not moved all of her stuff out? Why has she not filed for divorce? Why is she still talking to me outside of business?
> 
> To me, if you're really that set on doing something, just do it. To me, some signals are being mixed. She says she done, but then she wants to go hang out and get drinks?





darkheavy said:


> But, if that's true, why would she tell me that she kicked him to the curb? Was she fishing for me to try to come back to her?


Actually her actions do indeed match up and are very predictable. You are her Plan B. If things do not work out with OW, she knows she can come home to you and you will take her back. That is why she has not moved her stuff out. That is why she is not filing. That is why she wants to do drinks with you, to string you along. She has not kicked him to the curb. She is just telling you that to keep your hopes up and to keep YOU from FILING FOR DIVORCE. She may not be doing this totally consciously, but she is doing it nevertheless. 

Everyone here will tell you the best chance you have to get your wife back is to file for divorce. Time is against you. The longer she stays with him, the weaker you will seem to her and the less likely she will come back.

It seems counter-intuitive but it is not. If you want her back, file for divorce. You can always stop the petition. She needs to decide quickly and she needs to know you are not just going to wait forever with the door open for when she gets dumped by the other guy. Most likely the OW will cheat on your wife and she will find out, leave him and want to come back to you. Is that they way you want her to return to you? Because her first choice dumped her and she needs a place to live?


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

@ darkheavy

How long have you been married? And how long did you know each other before you got married? 

Were your needs being met while you were married & living together? I see a lot of taking on her part and a lot of giving on your part. I think you need to really ask yourself if she was giving you what you needed in the marriage and if not, do you think she's even capable of doing it?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Save your money or spend it on an individual counselor. Marriage counseling works if:
1) You both go.
2) You are both wanting to work on the marriage.
3) You know most issues.

Now, she needs therapy alright, but she needs her own.


Do me a favor, stop blaming yourself. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is the worse thing to rely on in these situations. "Woulda could shoulda" is going to keep you from mending and working on yourself. Depression sucks, but we have quite a few people on this board who deal with it everyday and do not cheat. Don't let her problems excuse all her actions nor, allow you to accept more blame than is legitimate. Now, while you may not be perfect, you seem to have done a TON, while losing jobs, earning money, dealing with her depression and supporting her as a stay at home wife.




> Thanks for your input. I'm sorry that your situation didn't pan out good for you. Really.
> 
> I know what needs to be done. I can't walk away from something without giving it everything I have. I don't want to be stuck with "what if's".
> 
> ...


Actually, his situation is working out much better than yours. Don't assume he's a failure because he gave you blunt advice. Also, make sure you understand, not everyone here is in a failed or failing marriage. Some advice is based on watching men, like yo,u fail because they ignore the signs and want to fix the marriage and not themselves first. You can't fix a problem if you do not what it is and have to guess. Also, to be blunt, sounds like you are arguing from investment and work not love. Seriously, you stood by her threw all of her problems, real and imagined, while you were going through your own things and all it took was some drinks and fun to leave you hanging. Don't use her depression as a crutch to save yourself.

Oh and to answer your question:
She's waiting for you to file to blame you.
You are plan B.
She has free storage of all of her items.
She talks to you to keep you on the hook.
Friends are great for emotional support, it doesn't mean you love them like a spouse.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Actually her actions do indeed match up and are very predictable. You are her Plan B. If things do not work out with OW, she knows she can come home to you and you will take her back. That is why she has not moved her stuff out. That is why she is not filing. That is why she wants to do drinks with you, to string you along. She has not kicked him to the curb. She is just telling you that to keep your hopes up and to keep YOU from FILING FOR DIVORCE. She may not be doing this totally consciously, but she is doing it nevertheless.
> 
> Everyone here will tell you the best chance you have to get your wife back is to file for divorce. Time is against you. The longer she stays with him, the weaker you will seem to her and the less likely she will come back.
> 
> It seems counter-intuitive but it is not. If you want her back, file for divorce. You can always stop the petition. She needs to decide quickly and she needs to know you are not just going to wait forever with the door open for when she gets dumped by the other guy. Most likely the OW will cheat on your wife and she will find out, leave him and want to come back to you. Is that they way you want her to return to you? Because her first choice dumped her and she needs a place to live?


I have contemplated that, but the only thing holding me back is the money aspect of it. I'm also not sure of how or where to get the process started. She claims to have kicked him to the curb. At this point, her credibility is shot with me. She has on her Facebook that she is basically looking for someone new. Makes me believe it a bit more. If that's the case and she is no longer with him (a big IF), she still probably feels that searching is better than putting in work with us. 

Do you really believe that starting this process on my own will get her to realize what this really is? Who I really am?


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> @ darkheavy
> 
> How long have you been married? And how long did you know each other before you got married?
> 
> Were your needs being met while you were married & living together? I see a lot of taking on her part and a lot of giving on your part. I think you need to really ask yourself if she was giving you what you needed in the marriage and if not, do you think she's even capable of doing it?


We were together for 4 years and 1 year of being married before things went south.

Yes, there was in fact a lot of giving on my part. But the emotional aspect I lacked in. Working all of that overtime and then coming home to be expected to spark up the romance...I just didn't have it in me.

I'm not sure if she's capable. But she's looking for a prototype of me. If that's the case, she's never going to find anyone. Her expectations are a bit unrealistic.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Save your money or spend it on an individual counselor. Marriage counseling works if:
> 1) You both go.
> 2) You are both wanting to work on the marriage.
> 3) You know most issues.
> ...


That first part was _extremely _insightful. Thank you for that.

I am not assuming he is a failure. I'm simply acknowledging he took a bit of a blow here, just like most people here, including myself. I assumed the user thought that every situation is the same, but ever one is different. The advice, while blunt, is very hard to read and accept. I apologize if it came off that way. I'm still *very* disoriented from this whole thing. I was in fact talking from that standpoint. Again, my apologies. This is not an excuse by any means and there was no need for that.


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

darkheavy said:


> We were together for 4 years and 1 year of being married before things went south.
> 
> Yes, there was in fact a lot of giving on my part. But the emotional aspect I lacked in. Working all of that overtime and then coming home to be expected to spark up the romance...I just didn't have it in me.
> 
> I'm not sure if she's capable. But she's looking for a prototype of me. If that's the case, she's never going to find anyone. Her expectations are a bit unrealistic.


After she has shown you what she's really about why would you want her back in the first place? There are a lot of sane women out there who would love to have a good guy. Things are actually looking up for you tbh. You were lucky enough to realize that you were with someone with serious issues before you had children with them. Now you can make a clean break and go on with your life.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> I assumed the user thought that every situation is the same, but ever one is different.


You want to know a secret? The script for cheaters who walk away is dang near the same for everyone everywhere and it isn't gender specific. So, he is giving what sounds like "every situation is the same" advice to help you because, unfortunately, it nearly is the same. Yes, from people with depression to people who were blindsided by their spouse walking away. The main differennce is you and your wife, the situation and reasons are VERY common and not as every betrayed believes this when they show up.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> I have contemplated that, but the only thing holding me back is the money aspect of it. I'm also not sure of how or where to get the process started. She claims to have kicked him to the curb. At this point, her credibility is shot with me. *She has on her Facebook that she is basically looking for someone new.* Makes me believe it a bit more. If that's the case and she is no longer with him (a big IF), she still probably feels that searching is better than putting in work with us.
> 
> Do you really believe that starting this process on my own will get her to realize what this really is? Who I really am?


she's saying she's not going back to you. OM1 didn't work out so she's looking for OM2. I wouldn't be taking any of her breadcrumbs. If you go dark it can make you attractive. Something she can't have now. Maybe you're only shot if you want to try.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Thanks for your input. I'm sorry that your situation didn't pan out good for you. Really.
> 
> I know what needs to be done. I can't walk away from something without giving it everything I have. I don't want to be stuck with "what if's".


Repeat after me: **** her.



> Be honest, if she doesn't want to be married to me, then tell me: why hasn't she filed, even though she has gotten told by her father to wait? Why hasn't she moved all of her stuff out of the apartment? Why does she still reach out from time to time? Why does she even want to talk? Why is she still trying to get emotional support from me? Why does she want to be friends?


Because it suits her to hold all the cards and have you have none.

Repeat after me: **** her.



> I am looking forward and improving myself little by little in my own way. But, there's still one foot in the door. This was her idea and this is what she wants. She knows I do not. I'm not pulling said trigger. If this is the bed she may think she wants or has to have, then she will indeed lie in it.


Pull the foot out and slam the door because all you're giving her is a free emotional ride while she sleeps with other men.

Repeat after me: **** her.



> Even with the other information provided (mental illness), you still believe the result and bottom line is the same? You don't think that things should be approached and thought about a little differently?


Repeated after me: **** her.

Her illness doesn't get to define you. Her illness doesn't give her free reign to **** other men while married. Her illness doesn't give her free reign to **** your life over.

I get that you have questions you feel you need to have answered. I did, too.

And I wrote a note on my phone to call my buddy instead of calling her.

And that's what he said: **** her. To every question. **** her.

And, one day, I woke up... 

And I didn't give a **** what her reasons were. She never gave me any. And that was part of the mind-**** to extract maximum damage while she got to pretend it was all on me.

**** her.

One day you won't care why she did it.

One day you won't ever want her back.

One day you'll be happy she did this.

Because... **** her.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Unicus said:


> ...Because it's the best (only) way to address their issues.
> 
> Your proposal of involving other family members sounds well intentioned, but most likely would result in the additional stress of a family feud. And, she's likely to be further enraged with H for snitching. Dropping her stuff off at his place is fine if H is done with her..which he's clearly not.
> 
> They need to build bridges, not burn them.


In my opinion any married person who proposes marriage counselling to their estranged spouse while the estranged spouse is sleeping with their other lover is either someone who is not in touch with reality or someone who has zero self-worth.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> Funny thing about that is, when she brought up the OM, she told me negative things about _him_. She wouldn't write all terrible things, as she knows we have a history together. The way I was with her (at least at some point) and took care of her, nobody has ever done for her. Not even her own parents.
> 
> Of course it's going to destroy me for a while. Someone I thought I was building something with, invested everything I physically could to, is just wiping their hands clean and leaving (at least seemingly).


Yes, it's going to be very tough for awhile with sleepless nights. Eventually you'll detach and see her for who she is. If you later meet another lady, you'll be attracted to her traits too. 

If your wife changes her mind and comes back to you now, you'll still be dealing with this nightmare and having mind movies two years from now.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

What Steve1000 said is right on. 

First you need to get over being a White Knight. You cannot save her. She doesn't want you to save her. She has detached from you and will do as she pleases. 

All you can do is start protecting yourself and start loving yourself, because she doesn't love you anymore bro. 

Download and read _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ and apply what it teaches. You will find that book describes you to a T and it will help you develop positive strategies to stop people like your wife from taking advantage of you and treating you like dirt.

Also, begin doing the 180. 


*The 180*

_1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow him/her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes._


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

darkheavy said:


> We have been in contact about once a week or so for one reason or another. Would forcing a decision make anything better? I realize it's just a suggestion, but it may get misconstrued as an ultimatum. I feel as if she is in fact confused, due to depression. I understand her actions from that perspective of needed to release her depression by testing waters. Eventually, she will hit a wall.
> 
> I want to treat it properly, but things are so dicey, I'm unsure of how to approach. In addition, how to I get the horse to not only go, but to drink the water? She doesn't want to do anything of the sort. I could suggest it, but the rejection rate is pretty high...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're getting a lot of advice, much of it conflicting with mine. 

Mine's based on the information you're giving me, not about me or my experiences or even my opinion of your situation. It's objective. What you're saying is that you want her back and do not want divorce.

In that case, the answer is to try to appeal to that part of her that is ambivalent..as I said, she's with someone else but not filing for divorce...that's ambivalence...and try to get both of you to a psychologist to work this out.

I think a straightforward conversation (preferably in person), discussing your own difficulty with what's going on and the need to either be married or not might work to help you achieve your goal.

Would I set a boundary and a deadline? Yes. That's not an ultimatum, those are threats not followed thru...because I would file for divorce..as I said maybe a dose of reality will get her thinking. You can always stop the proceedings if you guys can come together.

As it is, you don't have many options to achieve your goal, other than talking to her and letting her know you cannot go on like this forever.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Don't tell her you are divorcing her. Just do it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Look it is very hard to tell what is subjective and what is objective. Sure, you may want to save your marriage. You know what has worked more often than not, not being the nice guy and chasing the woman around taking any crumbs you can get. Not only is this based on the information you have given, it is based on real life observations, experiences and reading these threads. When Marduk tells you to detach and move on it is because he tried pretty much EVERYTHING being suggested and then some. Funny how when he decided, not to cheat of course, but to engage in similar behaviors to his wife she came around when she didn't like it at all. Many actions seem fun and cool, until you are on the receiving end of the same attitude .No, you don't stoop or lose your ethics and morals, but if she left, then you do not support her in her times of need. She wants a divorce and to be sort of kind of friends? Then that's what you do as well. You treat her respectfully, but you go hang out with the fellas. You go watch movies in the theater. You go hang out with work friends. She becomes second and third fiddle, just like you.

Pine away and wait? Rarely works.
Writing letters professing your love? Rarely works.
Having an honest conversation with an unrepentant cheater? Rarely works.

You know what works to save or end a marriage? Fixing yourself and not settling for bread crumbs. Yes, I, as well as others read what you said. Then you were given the truth of the situation. Timelines, Marriage counseling, boundaries and whatever else you come up with will not work if the cheater believes or knows you will save this marriage at all costs. These are all things you do when the person WANTS to work on the marriage.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

All,

I'm going to be looking through these new responses as I can throughout my day and responding to them. Today is a bit busy for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

As soon as she is served, she will likely come apart. She is expecting you to always be there, so she can take you for granted.

You have shown her that she can mistreat you, and you will still be there waiting. 

You have shown her you do not respect yourself.

Show her that keeping the marriage is not her choice, but YOURS.

File, have her served, and 180 like it is your job.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## pwnc (Mar 11, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You know what works to save or end a marriage? Fixing yourself and not settling for bread crumbs. Yes, I, as well as others read what you said. Then you were given the truth of the situation. Timelines, Marriage counseling, boundaries and whatever else you come up with will not work if the cheater believes or knows you will save this marriage at all costs. These are all things you do when the person WANTS to work on the marriage.


darkheavy, I've been in your shoes. Please head the above information. Like you, I was still in love with my wife and I tried all the things you've been trying. None of them worked.

What worked for me was following the advice given here. I managed to get my wife back three times. She came back only when I detached and began to REALLY move on. You have to show that you don't care about the final outcome of the situation. It's the ONLY way to get her interested again. 

If you detach, begin to move on, become indifferent to the outcome, she will most likely start showing great interest in you again and might possibly return. But, beware, that is the easy part. The hard part is maintaining her interest and you not going back to your needy behaviours. Needy behaviours will drive her away again. And, you should know that once cheating behaviour is tolerated, it rarely stops. 

My wife came back blissful three times. It was the greatest feeling in the world. But all three times were short lived because she feel back into cheating behaviour. 

Please be careful not to set yourself up for future hurt that's even worse than what you feel now. 

And please put her stuff away somewhere so you don't have to look at it all the time. It will drive you crazy, I know.

It's taken me a long time and a lot of hurt to learn, but the focus has to be on you, even if you want her back.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

No Kids........You need to run and I mean run like hell.

Your wife has done you a huge favor. 

She has shown you who she really is. Believe her.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

niceguy28 said:


> After she has shown you what she's really about why would you want her back in the first place? There are a lot of sane women out there who would love to have a good guy. Things are actually looking up for you tbh. You were lucky enough to realize that you were with someone with serious issues before you had children with them. Now you can make a clean break and go on with your life.


My thoughts on marriage was pretty much "if something is wrong, we're going to attack it together." I don't believe in divorce. Moving on to someone else makes the most sense to me. But my morals and views on being married seem to hinder that process a bit. Feels like a rock and a hard place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You want to know a secret? The script for cheaters who walk away is dang near the same for everyone everywhere and it isn't gender specific. So, he is giving what sounds like "every situation is the same" advice to help you because, unfortunately, it nearly is the same. Yes, from people with depression to people who were blindsided by their spouse walking away. The main differennce is you and your wife, the situation and reasons are VERY common and not as every betrayed believes this when they show up.


That is an extremely tough pill to swallow. I didn't get married to be going through this or to be playing games. I understand the perspective, though. It is what it is...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> she's saying she's not going back to you. OM1 didn't work out so she's looking for OM2. I wouldn't be taking any of her breadcrumbs. If you go dark it can make you attractive. Something she can't have now. Maybe you're only shot if you want to try.


I still want to try. Again, this is due to the fact I still love her in combination with my views on being married. 

She reached out to me about a week and a half ago, messaging me on FB. She said something like, "if I make another facebook, don't get mad please". At which point, I didn't care. She can make 5 if she wants. I have no place to say anything. She requested me on the new one, which I guess is part of the "breadcrumbs". I accepted it. But then I thought, "why? Why is she requesting me?" I did some Google work, and apparently I can be friends with someone and still block them from seeing anything on my page. This could be a part of "going dark"? I did that to both of her pages. She lost the privilege of knowing what I'm up to when she did what she did. I thought this is what's best for me for the time being anyway. I haven't talked to her since. She hasn't reached out either. We'll see what happens as time goes on. I figured once this divorce is close to or actually finalized, I will delete her completely. Possibly change my number (might not depending on work contacts).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> I still want to try. Again, this is due to the fact I still love her in combination with my views on being married.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your views on marriage don't mean squat to her. 

She is a classic cake eating cheater.

Your story is no different than the thousands that come thru here.

We posters have been in your very shoes albeit several years ago.


----------



## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

darkheavy said:


> My thoughts on marriage was pretty much "if something is wrong, we're going to attack it together." I don't believe in divorce. Moving on to someone else makes the most sense to me. But my morals and views on being married seem to hinder that process a bit. Feels like a rock and a hard place.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Once she decided to commit adultery any moral obligation you had to her went out the window. She is the one that cheated, not you. Even biblicaly, adultery is grounds for divorce. You don't really have much of a choice in this situation. You can't make her come back nor should you.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Repeat after me: **** her.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Marduk,

As one can assume, this has broken me beyond belief. I've had my heart broken in the past, but nothing close to the magnitude of this. I think you may also agree, that I've been trying to make excuses to make myself feel better about all of this. Using her depression as a crutch, like, "oh she didn't mean it at all! The depression is the problem!" While that could possibly be true (or something undiagnosed that's even worse), I have to admit that there is no excuse for her actions at the end of the day. There's plenty of people with illnesses or handicaps that would never do anything like this. I take my part in missing some red flags and whatnot, but the bottom line is still the same. No excuse.

Your part about wanting answers is mainly true. Looking within, I think that hurts the most. An action without a true explanation. You mean you can't tell me WHY you're being this way? You can't tell me why you did what you did? All I get is, "meh."? Come on. Loads of BS. I want truth. **** being hurt by it. I deserve that much...the truth. To me, it leaves me only to speculate. She's not telling anyone else anything. I'm not even sure SHE knows why she's doing this. It's pretty wild.

I'm never one to be too bitter about things. I wish everyone well in what they do. I'm not sure I can do that with her as much as I want to.

**** her. 
**** her. 
**** her. 
**** her.

Finally, I have had a buddy for almost 20 years. We grew up together. He's been there for me through everything in my life, and vice versa. His take is pretty much the same as yours. It's just very hard to accept, man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I have been here quite awhile. The script your wife is acting out is very common. In this version there is literally no hope. She doesn't love you. The only chance you have is to make her jealous. The next time she wants to meet up tell her you have a date.

To help you save this disaster of a marriage would be a crime against humanity.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You are desperately clinging on to the hope that she will suddenly grow up, begin thinking rationally and be reasonable. This is an understandable mindset from a person of relative maturity. She however is not a person of relative maturity and therefore the odds of any of the above happening are extremely slim, practically non existent. This is the reality of your situation. You can continue to believe that she is going to "come around" but it simply is not within her abilities to do so.

No one here wished to cause you pain nor do we wish to add to your angst. The reason so many are saying basically the same thing is because that is the reality of it. Your mind will say "yeah, but I am that one in a million that it will happen for" and you may be but one in a million odds is quite thin and it does not seem prudent to bet your future on it.

You had a mindset when you married about what married life meant to you, she did not. You had ideas on how to work through issues and difficulties, she did not. You understood empathy, she did not. You were relatively mature, she was not. Oil and water. They simply do not mix and to change water into oil is exceedingly difficult and costly. And, even if you are up to the task the water (her) may not be willing. Therefore doing all you can do may simply not be enough.

Also, I remember in a previous post of yours that you have no problem "having your needs met" by someone else, did I read that correctly? How do you reconcile engaging with someone else while trying to "win back" your W? There seems to be a lack of maturity on both sides and that may cause this "meeting of needs" to have an unintended consequence in that you may find a partner with whom you experience a connection and your W may suddenly become insignificant.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> Yes, it's going to be very tough for awhile with sleepless nights. Eventually you'll detach and see her for who she is. If you later meet another lady, you'll be attracted to her traits too.
> 
> If your wife changes her mind and comes back to you now, you'll still be dealing with this nightmare and having mind movies two years from now.


The sleepless nights are behind me. I still have an issue sleeping in what used to be "our" bed. For now, I'm crashing on the couch. There's too many memories in that bedroom. I've already met someone, and she's great. She's everything I wished my wife was, and those are traits of a WIFE. I'm going to continue to see her, take things slow, and see where it goes.

Now, I have thought about this numerous times, and my answers are always the same. Let's say hypothetically, she calls me today and wants to come home. I will agree, to an extent. 

She would need to:
-Cut all ties with any OMs
-Absolute transparency (passwords, unlocked phone, etc)
-See a therapist to work out her personal issues
-Quit her job at that gym and find another full time position 
-Stay moved out until I've seen some changes 
-Divorce must go through and be finalized

At that rate, hypothetically, she won't want to do any of those things. I know she won't. In addition, I'm not sure if I'm willing to live my life having to constantly worry about where she is, what she's doing, etc. That would be the end of that chapter in my life...hypothetically. With all of that being said, who's to say 2 years from now she won't do it again? I think I'm starting to get it, it's just very hard to accept still.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> To help you save this disaster of a marriage would be a crime against humanity.


I agree.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> What Steve1000 said is right on.
> 
> First you need to get over being a White Knight. You cannot save her. She doesn't want you to save her. She has detached from you and will do as she pleases.
> 
> ...


I will look in to that book tonight. Thank you for that!

I have somewhat started the 180. I'm not sure if it will bring her back around, but it would at least be beneficial for me to move forward in the right direction.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> As it is, you don't have many options to achieve your goal, other than talking to her and letting her know you cannot go on like this forever.


Unfortunately, I had already tried this and basically got rejected. I did this a couple of times, with distance between the talks as to not seem desperate or smothering. I've given up on that.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> As soon as she is served, she will likely come apart. She is expecting you to always be there, so she can take you for granted.
> 
> You have shown her that she can mistreat you, and you will still be there waiting.
> 
> ...


I guess you are right. I had talked to my father (I confide in him a lot) and my friend of almost 20 years. They both had pretty much said I don't have a line in the sand. My buddy has been there for me through every relationship. He pointed out that this has happened in almost every single one. I allow to much to happen to me that would be unacceptable to the common man.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

pwnc said:


> darkheavy, I've been in your shoes. Please head the above information. Like you, I was still in love with my wife and I tried all the things you've been trying. None of them worked.
> 
> What worked for me was following the advice given here. I managed to get my wife back three times. She came back only when I detached and began to REALLY move on. You have to show that you don't care about the final outcome of the situation. It's the ONLY way to get her interested again.
> 
> ...


That is what I fear the most. Her coming back and it happening again. I'd at least wait for the divorce to be finalized before even thinking about taking her back.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Marduk,
> 
> As one can assume, this has broken me beyond belief. I've had my heart broken in the past, but nothing close to the magnitude of this. I think you may also agree, that I've been trying to make excuses to make myself feel better about all of this. Using her depression as a crutch, like, "oh she didn't mean it at all! The depression is the problem!" While that could possibly be true (or something undiagnosed that's even worse), I have to admit that there is no excuse for her actions at the end of the day. There's plenty of people with illnesses or handicaps that would never do anything like this. I take my part in missing some red flags and whatnot, but the bottom line is still the same. No excuse.


Bull****.

It hasn't broken you.

It has hurt you. Because you have the ability to love. And that's good. The pain is good, because it shows the depth of your ability to care.

And some other woman will love that.

But what it has also done is made you question yourself, and made you weak.

And that's what you need to deal with.

**** her.



> Your part about wanting answers is mainly true. Looking within, I think that hurts the most. An action without a true explanation. You mean you can't tell me WHY you're being this way? You can't tell me why you did what you did? All I get is, "meh."? Come on. Loads of BS. I want truth. **** being hurt by it. I deserve that much...the truth. To me, it leaves me only to speculate. She's not telling anyone else anything. I'm not even sure SHE knows why she's doing this. It's pretty wild.


My wife left without a warning or an excuse or a reason.

Because she couldn't admit the truth: that she was ****ing someone else. And good girls don't do that. 

3 months later, I woke up one morning, and didn't care what the reason was. I was surrounded by friends and family that loved me. Other women were chasing me. I had a good career. If I were that profoundly broken, none of those things were true.

Either our relationship just didn't work, or she was broken, or both. So, I learned from what I did wrong -- which turned out mostly to be put up with way too much BS because of love and thinking "that's what men are supposed to do" and then I moved the **** on.

Because, **** her.



> I'm never one to be too bitter about things. I wish everyone well in what they do. I'm not sure I can do that with her as much as I want to.


No, you're one to become an emotional black hole.

So get angry instead.



> **** her.
> **** her.
> **** her.
> **** her.


now you're getting it.



> Finally, I have had a buddy for almost 20 years. We grew up together. He's been there for me through everything in my life, and vice versa. His take is pretty much the same as yours. It's just very hard to accept, man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good!

Do what I did. Have a second childhood. Have beers with your buddies. Play music too loud. Play video games. Chase women. Work out. Be silly.

Because when Mrs. Next finds you, you may not get another chance at that.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> I guess you are right. I had talked to my father (I confide in him a lot) and my friend of almost 20 years. They both had pretty much said I don't have a line in the sand. My buddy has been there for me through every relationship. He pointed out that this has happened in almost every single one. I allow to much to happen to me that would be unacceptable to the common man.


What is the common denominator in each of those relationships? 

If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> Your views on marriage don't mean squat to her.
> 
> She is a classic cake eating cheater.


That's what it seems like. Trying to take the easy way out. Nobody is making it easy for her whatsoever. As I've stated, her family reaches out to me from time to time. From my understanding, they love her, but are disgusted with what she doing and has done. She's tried to shack up with family, but they know her ways. t's supposed to be temporary, but she will get a bit _too_ comfortable and mooch. It's very disappointing to think that someone you think so highly of would do that to you.

I am really digging your handle by the way! HAHA!


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Now, I have thought about this numerous times, and my answers are always the same. Let's say hypothetically, she calls me today and wants to come home. I will agree, to an extent.
> 
> She would need to:


Find merlin's magic wand and go back in time and not **** her marriage up, and magically be a better person to boot.

Fixed that for you.

You're fantasizing. 

Fantasize about your current GF instead.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Bull****.
> 
> It hasn't broken you.
> 
> ...


I need more people like you around, man. Nobody is ever really willing to give it to me straight. Either they don't want to hurt my feelings, or they just have never been in that position so they don't think their advice will help. I do feel weak and hurt. Some days are better than others. But, I'm trying to combat that with working on myself. Being married turned me into someone I don't recognize when I look in the mirror. Now, I'm going back to the way I was before we met. I was social. I loved going out. I had friends. I'm going to go back to school and finish out my degree. I'm getting a promotion at work soon. I'm exercising to get my body back. I put too much on hold for this woman. It's about time I do for myself again.

Just for the record, I'm reading all of your responses in a Keanu voice. For some reason, that seems to be helpful!


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> What is the common denominator in each of those relationships?
> 
> If you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I think we both know the answer to that. 

I wind up very hurt. Surprised. Disappointed. Cheated. I can't keep doing this to myself. Lesson learned. Also, I have issues speaking up when things bother/upset me. Another lesson learned.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> I need more people like you around, man. Nobody is ever really willing to give it to me straight. Either they don't want to hurt my feelings, or they just have never been in that position so they don't think their advice will help. I do feel weak and hurt. Some days are better than others. But, I'm trying to combat that with working on myself. Being married turned me into someone I don't recognize when I look in the mirror. Now, I'm going back to the way I was before we met. I was social. I loved going out. I had friends. I'm going to go back to school and finish out my degree. I'm getting a promotion at work soon. I'm exercising to get my body back. I put too much on hold for this woman. It's about time I do for myself again.
> 
> Just for the record, I'm reading all of your responses in a Keanu voice. For some reason, that seems to be helpful!


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Find merlin's magic wand and go back in time and not **** her marriage up, and magically be a better person to boot.
> 
> Fixed that for you.
> 
> ...


Just to clarify, she isn't my GF _yet_. She's made it clear that's what she wants. This girl knows what she wants and who she is. Doesn't seem to be about the games or BS. Only issue is that she has two daughters...so best believe I am treading slowly and lightly.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


>


Ha! What the...?!

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that today.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

marduk said:


>


Nice denim jacket.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Just to clarify, she isn't my GF _yet_. She's made it clear that's what she wants. This girl knows what she wants and who she is. Doesn't seem to be about the games or BS. Only issue is that she has two daughters...so best believe I am treading slowly and lightly.


Listen.

The first relationship is going to be a messy train wreck.

A _fun_ messy train wreck. Enjoy it.

Just know the bridge is out right around the corner, and get off the train just before it goes over the cliff.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

farsidejunky said:


> Nice denim jacket.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


Thanks.

Need to work on my pecs though.

Should I stop shaving my chest?


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> You are desperately clinging on to the hope that she will suddenly grow up, begin thinking rationally and be reasonable. This is an understandable mindset from a person of relative maturity. She however is not a person of relative maturity and therefore the odds of any of the above happening are extremely slim, practically non existent. This is the reality of your situation. You can continue to believe that she is going to "come around" but it simply is not within her abilities to do so.
> 
> No one here wished to cause you pain nor do we wish to add to your angst. The reason so many are saying basically the same thing is because that is the reality of it. Your mind will say "yeah, but I am that one in a million that it will happen for" and you may be but one in a million odds is quite thin and it does not seem prudent to bet your future on it.
> ...


It is a curse for me to be optimistic about mostly everything. Even this. 

Yes. I did find someone. _They _found _me_, really. She had gone through a rough divorce, so it was nice to talk to someone that's pretty much in the same boat as myself. I understand the advice is blunt and harsh at times. I get that nobody is trying to be negative towards me, just realistic.

To me, I figure, "okay. It was emotional/physical with OM. I have proof. She's moved on. I'm sitting here wallowing. We haven't done the deed in what feels like ages. I need what I need. In this aspect, I can't wait for her to come back and do that. Even if she were to, what is her reasoning? Would I just be a jumpoff? Is it a trick? Is she trying to trap me?" 

So, I just did what I felt I needed to do.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I don't think she's worth chasing anymore. She was a do nothing when you were first married and before the affair. That of course lowers her value to you even more. I think the best thing for you is to find someone else who will be willing to work, do her share of the house work and will be less a risk for affairs. You definitely deserve that instead of someone who is constantly not helping you and loving you.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> I don't think she's worth chasing anymore. She was a do nothing when you were first married and before the affair. That of course lowers her value to you even more. I think the best thing for you is to find someone else who will be willing to work, do her share of the house work and will be less a risk for affairs. You definitely deserve that instead of someone who is constantly not helping you and loving you.


You are absolutely right. Throughout this whole process, my confidence and self-worth has gone right out the window. It hurts still, but I'm slowly gaining that back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Does anyone know where I can/should go to get this paperwork started? How much it could possibly cost? We already discussed assets (we don't have much to split, anyway). I'm just unsure of where to go for this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Ask around for a good Divorce attorney. Hopefully someone knows one in your town. Try not to let it go to litigation. 

Alternatively, if you want to try doing it alone, I've heard--but never used--that places like LegalZoom have such papers.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> We already discussed assets (we don't have much to split, anyway).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


More reason to RUN like hell.


----------



## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> Does anyone know where I can/should go to get this paperwork started? How much it could possibly cost? We already discussed assets (we don't have much to split, anyway). I'm just unsure of where to go for this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask around in your town for lawyers that are willing to do divorce cases for reasonable fees. I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this and wish you all the best in the future.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Ask around for a good Divorce attorney. Hopefully someone knows one in your town. Try not to let it go to litigation.
> 
> Alternatively, if you want to try doing it alone, I've heard--but never used--that places like LegalZoom have such papers.


Neither of us can afford to take anything to court. So, any place I can get the papers would be best. Again, she claims to have said papersomething, but I can't believe everything I hear from her. Are any of those online filings legit?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Neither of us can afford to take anything to court. So, any place I can get the papers would be best. Again, she claims to have said papersomething, but I can't believe everything I hear from her. Are any of those online filings legit?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


LegalZoom advertises all over the country, so I would hope so. I don't know if they have divorce forms. I have not ever used them for anything. I just hear them on the radio all the time.

You could also ask your local courthouse how a person goes about filing for D. Remember this when dealing with government employees: Never ask them to help you do something, ask them how something is done. If they are asked to give you advice, 9/10 times they will stop talking to you / stonewall because of "liability" concerns. 

"I was wondering, how do people file for Divorce?" "Is there a divorce form I could see?" etc.

As opposed to "Hey, can you help me file for divorce?" "How do I file for divorce?" "Where do you keep the divorce forms?" etc. The difference is petty, but that's my local government. If I don't ask in the right way, they won't let me review the city building code, it's that bad here.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Are you having sex with the new girl?

I hate to say it, and I'm not exactly advising it, but that wiped the mental and emotional cobwebs away for me.


----------



## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

darkheavy said:


> Neither of us can afford to take anything to court. So, any place I can get the papers would be best. Again, she claims to have said papersomething, but I can't believe everything I hear from her. Are any of those online filings legit?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 @darkheavy You can try this... Divorce Forms by State - FindLaw

Or maybe just google what forms are available from your state.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Are you having sex with the new girl?
> 
> I hate to say it, and I'm not exactly advising it, but that wiped the mental and emotional cobwebs away for me.


What do you mean by that?


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> What do you mean by that?


My ex stopped having sex with me. Probably when she started having sex with the other guy. 

And told me I was unattractive, that I was a loser, that I was sex crazy because I wanted it more than once every month or two. And many things. 

And the way she left with no reasons, it made all that worse. Because I loved her I thought it was true. And if it was true, who would want me?

Except lots of girls did. And when I had sex the first time with someone that actually wanted me, I balled my eyes out after she left. 

Because it was the best sex I'd had in a very long time, and a beautiful smart woman wanted to have it with me. 

And I woke up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> My ex stopped having sex with me. Probably when she started having sex with the other guy.
> 
> And told me I was unattractive, that I was a loser, that I was sex crazy because I wanted it more than once every month or two. And many things.
> 
> ...


Haha!

Yes. We have done the deed a few times. I was in the same boat as you. We hadn't done it in a couple of months, and I assume that's when OM came into the picture. Now, this woman WANTS to do this with me. It's good stuff, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> I still want to try. Again, this is due to the fact I still love her in combination with my views on being married.
> 
> She reached out to me about a week and a half ago, messaging me on FB. She said something like, "if I make another facebook, don't get mad please". At which point, I didn't care. She can make 5 if she wants. I have no place to say anything. She requested me on the new one, which I guess is part of the "breadcrumbs". I accepted it. But then I thought, "why? Why is she requesting me?" I did some Google work, and apparently I can be friends with someone and still block them from seeing anything on my page. This could be a part of "going dark"? I did that to both of her pages. She lost the privilege of knowing what I'm up to when she did what she did. I thought this is what's best for me for the time being anyway. I haven't talked to her since. She hasn't reached out either. We'll see what happens as time goes on. I figured once this divorce is close to or actually finalized, I will delete her completely. Possibly change my number (might not depending on work contacts).
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Accepting her friend request at this time is accepting her actions. You are playing this all wrong. You'll starve to death on breadcrumbs which is what this is.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Read up and fix yourself

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=GwDYzG9yFN29SNquT.t5m2mWDBM-


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Accepting her friend request at this time is accepting her actions. You are playing this all wrong. You'll starve to death on breadcrumbs which is what this is.


I was unsure of that. Even though I've blocked all of my activity while still being friends with her? I see nothing of hers, nor do I go searching for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Get a divorce packet from your local court house or download your states packet. Even more importantly get he book linked to below to see why this sh!t keeps happening to you. MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

darkheavy said:


> I will look in to that book tonight. Thank you for that!
> 
> I have somewhat started the 180. I'm not sure if it will bring her back around, but it would at least be beneficial for me to move forward in the right direction.


Understand this...

The 180 is not to "bring her around". The 180 has nothing to do with her. The 180 is to help you achieve emotional detachment from her, which is what you need most right now. The 180 helps you to build that invisible wall between yourself and her so that, no matter what stones and spikes she throws at you, you will be on better footing to withstand her onslaught. 

The 180 is not about winning her back or to get her to come back to you, and if you use it for that purpose, you will fail.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Understand this...
> 
> The 180 is not to "bring her around". The 180 has nothing to do with her. The 180 is to help you achieve emotional detachment from her, which is what you need most right now. The 180 helps you to build that invisible wall between yourself and her so that, no matter what stones and spikes she throws at you, you will be on better footing to withstand her onslaught.
> 
> The 180 is not about winning her back or to get her to come back to you, and if you use it for that purpose, you will fail.


Duly noted. I guess in the unlikely even she does try to come back, that would just be a byproduct of the 180?


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Duly noted. I guess in the unlikely even she does try to come back, that would just be a byproduct of the 180?


Stop it.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Stop it.


Fantasizing again.

=X


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Uhhh. Just as an update, I checked the county website for a divorce. I'm looking at $300 at least. Possibly $600. Going to try to find some loopholes or other avenues to try to get this price knocked down. This is the only reason I'd have to wait. She's already left me in a tight spot with finances. I had things planned out for TWO incomes. It'll be a little bit for me.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why do you think so little of yourself that you would even entertain the fantasy of her returning?

Do you not believe yourself to be worthy of better treatment?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Why do you think so little of yourself that you would even entertain the fantasy of her returning?
> 
> Do you not believe yourself to be worthy of better treatment?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


It's going to take a little bit of time to shake that bad habit. I love hard. In this particular case, it's easy to say **** her. But I've been fantasizing for a while here. Just need to stop doing it! I know I deserve better and not settle for her and her ways. It's just difficult.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Uhhh. Just as an update, I checked the county website for a divorce. I'm looking at $300 at least. Possibly $600. Going to try to find some loopholes or other avenues to try to get this price knocked down. This is the only reason I'd have to wait. She's already left me in a tight spot with finances. I had things planned out for TWO incomes. It'll be a little bit for me.


Stop it. 

Make a plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Stop it.
> 
> Make a plan.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Apparently, I can go down to the local County Clerk's office and get my papers. With that, there are certain qualifications my soon-to-be ex-wife and I need to meet in order to get the fee waived. It's a shot I'm willing to take. I'm hoping I can do this without her knowing. But, unless they require some information about her job, which I know nothing about, she will know. C'est la vie, I guess.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> It's going to take a little bit of time to shake that bad habit. I love hard. In this particular case, it's easy to say **** her. But I've been fantasizing for a while here. Just need to stop doing it! I know I deserve better and not settle for her and her ways. It's just difficult.


Bullshyte. 

Love hard? Many do. 

But healthy people invest their love into those who love them in return.

And it is difficult, even for those who are healthy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> Apparently, I can go down to the local County Clerk's office and get my papers. With that, there are certain qualifications my soon-to-be ex-wife and I need to meet in order to get the fee waived. It's a shot I'm willing to take. I'm hoping I can do this without her knowing. But, unless they require some information about her job, which I know nothing about, she will know. C'est la vie, I guess.


This is a start.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> This is a start.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


It is. I'm doing my homework here. I found a reliable site that will do payment plans. It may take a week or two, but this seems to be my best option so far. Thank you.

I think I just needed some advice from those other than the two people I confide in that have never been through this or have never even been married.

*I can do this. I can do this.*


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Bullshyte.
> 
> Love hard? Many do.
> 
> ...


You beat me to it.

Love hard my a$$. 

You meant hard for you to let go.

Big difference.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> You beat me to it.
> 
> Love hard my a$$.
> 
> ...


I think I may be misunderstanding you. I thought during our duration I loved as best as I could? I will admit it is also hard to let go, yes. No argument there from me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> Let's say hypothetically, she calls me today and wants to come home. I will agree, to an extent.
> 
> She would need to:
> -Cut all ties with any OMs
> ...



You're further along than I thought you were. I also think you being very honest with yourself that if you wife wanted to come home now, you would still not be able to say no. Let's hope the day comes soon when you will not even want her to come back. ...and remember, that if she comes back, you will definitely being dealing with this emotionally for a long time. This would also include being disgusted with yourself sometimes.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Unicus said:


> ...Because it's the best (only) way to address their issues.


With her banging posOM it has zero chance of working.

She won't miss darknheavy if he won't go away.

Going away is exactly what he should do.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> I was unsure of that. Even though I've blocked all of my activity while still being friends with her? I see nothing of hers, nor do I go searching for it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Unfriend her. It'll send her the message. I'm not OK with your actions.

Definition of a friend: trustworthy, honest, faithfull. She's not your friend. Sorry man


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

darkheavy said:


> Duly noted. I guess in the unlikely even she does try to come back, that would just be a byproduct of the 180?


On rare occasions. Don't hedge your bets on it.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

darkheavy said:


> It's going to take a little bit of time to shake that bad habit. I love hard. In this particular case, it's easy to say **** her. But I've been fantasizing for a while here. Just need to stop doing it! I know I deserve better and not settle for her and her ways. It's just difficult.


I'm going to get smacked by the women here but.....

Pvssies are a dime a dozen darkheavy. There is absolutely nothing irreplaceable about this woman. Nothing. There is a world full of single women out there who are so much better than her. You could be driving a 2016 Tesla, but instead you choose to pine for a 1985 Yugo.

In fact, you need to be concentrating on yourself more than anyone. I am glad you found a new girlfriend and I hop that works out for you, but you are doing that girl a disservice by hanging on to your exWW and not investing in this lady. 

The "love" you have for exWW is mostly in your head, mostly co-dependency, and with the proper counseling and therapy for your co-dependency, you can re-train your brain to no longer "love" her. Ask your employer if your insurance covers any counseling.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> With her banging posOM it has zero chance of working.
> 
> She won't miss darknheavy if he won't go away.
> 
> Going away is exactly what he should do.


You're exactly right. That's partially why it didn't work the one time we went. I'm told by her cousin that he was most likely manipulating and using her clearly in a physical way. She wasn't invested partially because OM was calling shots on the sideline.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> You're further along than I thought you were. I also think you being very honest with yourself that if you wife wanted to come home now, you would still not be able to say no. Let's hope the day comes soon when you will not even want her to come back. ...and remember, that if she comes back, you will definitely being dealing with this emotionally for a long time. This would also include being disgusted with yourself sometimes.


No. I agree. No telling what could happen if I were to let her back in. Talk about rolling the dice...loaded dice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Unfriend her. It'll send her the message. I'm not OK with your actions.
> 
> Definition of a friend: trustworthy, honest, faithfull. She's not your friend. Sorry man


My assumption is:

-breadcrumbs
-give me false hope
-keep tabs on me
-ease her guilt
-wants to believe she's doing better than me
-reinforce her choices 
-possibly ruin anything good I may have with an OW

I will be contemplating this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> On rare occasions. Don't hedge your bets on it.


Ha! I wouldn't dream of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> My assumption is:
> 
> -breadcrumbs
> -give me false hope
> ...


You are correct except the contemplating part.

Read No More Mr Nice Guy!!!!! You'll understand


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> With her banging posOM it has zero chance of working.
> 
> She won't miss darknheavy if he won't go away.
> 
> Going away is exactly what he should do.


And exactly what are you basing such a self assured prediction, Zero?

Since the OP falsely agrees with you, I will no longer respond. Let me know how this type of advice works out for you though.

Best of luck.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> And exactly what are you basing such a self assured prediction, Zero?
> 
> Since the OP falsely agrees with you, I will no longer respond. Let me know how this type of advice works out for you though.
> 
> Best of luck.


Whoa, what happened there?

It makes sense. If she has this guy or any OM in the picture, would that make it difficult for us to work it out??? I'm thinking she would need to be FULLY invested in this. It's a couple, not a triangle. Just saying, in that perspective...it makes sense
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Listen, my advice is based on what you're saying, not my own opinion. It's purely objective.

Your the one saying you want her back. If that's still the case, then cutting her off or setting ultimatums about the OM isn't going to get you there. Ask yourself if that would work with you. People respond better to outreach than rejection.

Reaching out to her and getting her into a place...therapy....is your best shot at achieving your goal. That she goes home to the OM isn't the issue right now. it's that in spite of that, she still can't let go of you and the marriage. You can choose to talk with others and get some phony support for being "Angry", but recall your goal isn't to merely express yourself but get her back.

Do I have any of that wrong? Does any of this not make intuitive sense?

You can let her know that the current situation is unacceptable to you and that you need clarification. If she really wanted this other guy, she'd cut off all contact with you and file for divorce, That she hasn't lets you know that there's room here.

But you have to move effectively within that space. Being angry with her or otherwise antagonizing her wont do it.

It's hard to determine who to listen to online, but use common sense.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Unicus said:


> And exactly what are you basing such a self assured prediction, Zero?
> 
> Since the OP falsely agrees with you, I will no longer respond. Let me know how this type of advice works out for you though.
> 
> Best of luck.


Dafuq?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> Listen, my advice is based on what you're saying, not my own opinion. It's purely objective.
> 
> Your the one saying you want her back. If that's still the case, then cutting her off or setting ultimatums about the OM isn't going to get you there. Ask yourself if that would work with you. People respond better to outreach than rejection.
> 
> ...


While she was with OM, I got rejection. Obviously. I had stopped reaching out because of her cold shouldering me. What you're saying makes absolute sense, yes.

What is your suggestion if she still refuses to go to therapy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

darkheavy needs therapy to see WHY he wants his ex wife back. 

Any healthy person would kick her to the curb and start banging rebounds the next night.

My divorce will be final on Friday, pretty much non contested and attorneys will cost around $10K. Process took 5 months. I'll be paying around $1K/month in child support/day care. Man, you could have it so much worse! Be thankful you can get out with no financial pain or having to deal with children. Move on and don't look back.


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

darkheavy said:


> While she was with OM, I got rejection. Obviously. I had stopped reaching out because of her cold shouldering me. What you're saying makes absolute sense, yes.
> 
> What is your suggestion if she still refuses to go to therapy?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she refuses therapy, let her know that the current situation is incompatible with your definition of marriage and that she can expect to be served divorce papers, and do it.

As I said, she seems ambivalent...she's not filing for divorce, people who have found the true love of their lives while they're married to someone else don't have a problem with that....so by filing, you send her a clear message which would hopefully get her thinking more clearly. When you serve someone it's not like it needs to be permanent, you know...the process itself takes a long time, and either of you can change your minds at any time.

But right now, you're stuck and this approach might move things...in either direction, which has to better than where you are now.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

machristol said:


> This is my testimony about the good work of a man who helped me..My name is Marian Christ. and I am based in London , UK. My life is back!!! After 8 years of marriage, my husband left me with our three children. I felt like my life was about to end,and was falling apart. Thanks to a spell caster called papa Justus who i met online. On one faithful day, as I was browsing through the internet, I was searching for a good spell caster that can solve my problems. I came across series of testimonies about this particular spell caster. Some people testified that he brought their Ex lover back, some testified that he restores womb, some testified that he can cast a spell to stop divorce and so on. There was one particular testimony I saw, it was about a woman called Grace,she testified about how papa Justus brought back her Ex lover in less than 72 hours and at the end of her testimony she drop papa Justus e-mail address. After reading all these,I decided to give papa a try.
> 
> I contacted him via email and explained my problems to him. In just 3 days, my husband came back to me. We solved our issues, and we are even happier than before. papa Justus is really a talented and gifted man and i will not stop publishing him because he is a wonderful man…If you have a problem and you are looking for a real and genuine spell caster to solve that problem for you. Try the great papa Justus today, he might be the answer to your problems. Here’s his contact: [email protected]
> Thank you great Justus. Contact him for the following:
> ...


Uhmmmm...what??


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Unicus said:


> If she refuses therapy, let her know that the current situation is incompatible with your definition of marriage and that she can expect to be served divorce papers, and do it.
> 
> As I said, she seems ambivalent...she's not filing for divorce, people who have found the true love of their lives while they're married to someone else don't have a problem with that....so by filing, you send her a clear message which would hopefully get her thinking more clearly. When you serve someone it's not like it needs to be permanent, you know...the process itself takes a long time, and either of you can change your minds at any time.
> 
> But right now, you're stuck and this approach might move things...in either direction, which has to better than where you are now.


She claimed this OM was "the one", but apparently again from what she's telling me, kicked him to the curb. She's now on the hunt for another OM. Does that still show her being ambivalent?? My gut says she will be reluctant to go. If she does, I'm hoping she would tell the truth. She seems to have a hard time facing and admitting truth for her own reasons thus far.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> She claimed this OM was "the one", but apparently again from what she's telling me, kicked him to the curb. She's now on the hunt for another OM. Does that still show her being ambivalent?? My gut says she will be reluctant to go. If she does, I'm hoping she would tell the truth. She seems to have a hard time facing and admitting truth for her own reasons thus far.


DH

I disagree with Unicus' advice. MC is a waste of time right now. You asking for it just makes you look even more pathetic and unattractive. Your wife has cheated on you accept that your marriage is probably over.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> DH
> 
> I disagree with Unicus' advice. MC is a waste of time right now. You asking for it just makes you look even more pathetic and unattractive. Your wife has cheated on you accept that your marriage is probably over.


I'm aware of how a look to her, in a sense. Her take was that "it won't solve anything". I think I may try one last time to reach out to her next week, continue to give her space. If she says "no", then I will have no choice but to file. She will probably blame me still for everything. But, I have to do what I have to do. If I already look pathetic, it can't get much worse than that, huh?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> Her take was that "it won't solve anything".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her take is right because she is 50% of the equation.

I get it....you want her back because your brain hasn't/won't accept the reality of your situation.

I have been in your shoes. You cannot nice her back.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

ReturntoZero said:


> The more you chase her, the faster she'll run away.
> 
> Immerse yourself in your work, hobbies, and interests. Do the things you were doing when she fell in love with you - before you changed to this domesticated animal she feels comfortable kicking around.


This is good advice.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> Her take is right because she is 50% of the equation.
> 
> I get it....you want her back because your brain hasn't/won't accept the reality of your situation.
> 
> I have been in your shoes. You cannot nice her back.


THANK YOU. That seems to be a big issue. I had reached out yesterday to remind her to pay me what she can for the backrent. I got "ok I certainly will". Better than a cold shoulder. Best thing I can do is hit therapy on my own. My assumption is that eventually he/she may ask me to see if she will come to one or more sessions. 

I can be nice, that's in my nature to most people. Besides, she'll expect me to be angry, pushy, etc. That may thrown her off a bit. 

I can't do anything to get her back, but I feel like I can at least change her perception of me. Only way to do that is to continue to grow and better myself. But take note that this is not for her. This is for MY benefit. If she gets attracted again, that would just be a byproduct. I've stated that being married changed me, and not for the better. The way I was before I met is the complete opposite. I'm going back to that because I was happy with myself in that state. It feels good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> This is good advice.


Agreed. I've already started to do that. Working out again. Being social. Getting more involved with work. I'm happier this way. GAL!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I'll put it this way. Any sort of reconciliation will have to be her idea.

You need to move on.

Have you read the 180?

That should be your detachment bible.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> I'll put it this way. Any sort of reconciliation will have to be her idea.
> 
> You need to move on.
> 
> ...


Someone in this thread posted about the 180. I would also think that any reconciliation would have to be on her part. Everyone and their mama knows I'm up for it. I've already claimed my own faults. She has yet to show any remorse or reasons why things are this way. No ownership whatsoever from her. I can hold my breath waiting for that, but it'd be a waste of time. She may possibly never come around. She may come around next week. She may come around two years from now. Either way, I can't wait for that from her. 

Do you think that me serving her will at least get the message across? She can view it however she wants...me taking a jab at her, me being petty...but...I'm growing restless with this. If she wants her last name back so badly, she can have it. She's put enough disgrace on it with her actions. I need to pull the trigger on this. I'm mad because she's playing these games and coming up with excuse after excuse. I want to show her I mean business and I don't want to sit around idle while she just does whatever she pleases. If she has enough time to go out on dates and run around with OM, then she has time to file.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> Someone in this thread posted about the 180. I would also think that any reconciliation would have to be on her part. Everyone and their mama knows I'm up for it. I've already claimed my own faults. She has yet to show any remorse or reasons why things are this way. No ownership whatsoever from her. I can hold my breath waiting for that, but it'd be a waste of time. She may possibly never come around. She may come around next week. She may come around two years from now. Either way, I can't wait for that from her.
> 
> Do you think that me serving her will at least get the message across? She can view it however she wants...me taking a jab at her, me being petty...but...I'm growing restless with this. If she wants her last name back so badly, she can have it. She's put enough disgrace on it with her actions. I need to pull the trigger on this. I'm mad because she's playing these games and coming up with excuse after excuse. I want to show her I mean business and I don't want to sit around idle while she just does whatever she pleases. If she has enough time to go out on dates and run around with OM, then she has time to file.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be a man......You File! but only if you are emotionally strong enough to do it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Filing doesn't mean crap and I never understand WHY men hold on to the weakest thread as PROOF "she stiw woves me."


> That she goes home to the OM isn't the issue right now. .


This is the main issue right now that is feeding the other problems. 
Read this thread. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html

Yes, it is long. Read it and then tell me how true the above quote is when you are done. Heck, after that, go read Newphoenix5's thread. Then go read ACOA's thread. They are long reads, but they have a common theme running through them. I will get you some more threads, if you don't see why I am pointing this out. Just like you, they latched onto advice which appears intuitive and rejected the counter-intuitive advice. All I'll say is why are you letting yourself be manipulated over the internet? Oh and yes, we ALL know what you want, but you do realize what you want doesn't matter to her? You do realize therapy only works if she wants to be with you? You do understand if you reach out, every time she goes to therapy the OM will counter everything you do positive.

Edit:
In all threads, please pay attention to THE ACTIONS that follow the words the wives have said.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Filing doesn't mean crap and I never understand WHY men hold on to the weakest thread as PROOF "she stiw woves me."
> This is the main issue right now that is feeding the other problems.
> Read this thread.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html
> ...


Don't listen to what she says, watch what she does.

I speak from experience.

Counseling, begging, pleading, reasoning... all makes you look like the pursuer... and it will not work. Every word lowers your value to her. Remember, she hates herself and you want her. So, how much of a catch could you possibly be?

These decisions are made by women on an emotional level. Master emotional communication... crack the code... and your happiness will increase almost immediately.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> Don't listen to what she says, watch what she does.QUOTE]
> 
> I'm unsure of how to do that. I haven't really kept tabs on her. Haven't reached out to her other than yesterday, but that was strictly business. I can't watch what she does unless she's visible. At the moment, she is a ghost. As am I. She doesn't know what I'm up to. Last I was told was that she's working a lot and working out a lot.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Filing doesn't mean crap and I never understand WHY men hold on to the weakest thread as PROOF "she stiw woves me."
> This is the main issue right now that is feeding the other problems.
> Read this thread.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/277794-my-wife-thinks-she-love-co-worker.html
> ...


300 something pages. Long reads, indeed.

I do realize anything I want at this point doesn't matter to her. I've been rejected enough initially when this all went down to realize that. I know therapy only works when there's just me and her and no third party. Even if there isn't an OM atm, she has a friend of hers that she confides in. She's the _only _one encouraging her behavior.

To that end, these are long reads. When I have time to, I will get to these and see what you're trying to tell me through these threads. I will let you know!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

To sum it up, every one of them FAILED because the OM was still INSIDE the marriage. What you have to be careful of, on the net, is people believing all marriages can and should be saved at all costs. It doesn't work that way at all. RZ's thread is interesting as well. Sorry, RZ, with all of the threads, I should have recommended yours FIRST, as you are posting in the thread. Yes, your wife needs therapy for her DEPRESSION, but not marriage counseling. She is already out, she was living single and seeing another man, your marriage is broken. So, how is MC going to help with someone who is already living single? See, this is common sense. You do understand common sense works, with common actions right? Still, you do understand you are dealing with an irrational and illogical person? Common sense doesn't work, when trying to see logic in someone being illogical. Even if OM is gone, she already had the taste of no marriage responsibilities and sexual freedom.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Even if OM is gone, she already had the taste of no marriage responsibilities and sexual freedom.


I thought that. Let's just say her kicking OM to the curb is true. She tells me this. If that was the case, my common sense tells me that this would have been her wakeup call. Things fizzled out with this guy. She found fault in him. Cool. When she told me that, this would have been her time to come forward and acknowledge _something_. Get her out of the fog, so to speak. It would have been the beginning of trying to repair herself and whatever bridges she destroyed between us.

Now, even if there is no OM, like you say, she's made it clear she's still on the hunt for a new OM. She's not being logical. Her life must be chaos from being broke to being homeless to being lonely. If she wanted to, she would have came back already. But, like I've seen, dealing with someone that is still in a fog and not thinking logically or even rationally, there's not much I can do.

I guess her not filing, being a cake eater, leaving some of her things in the apartment...is a part of...?

I'm going to assess that what you're ultimately saying is basically just to file and keep it moving? I mean, there is literally no getting through to her on any level. This would explain why her family and friends all turned their back to her. She has no one. She has alienated herself to only communicate with those who will encourage her decisions (which is one, _possibly _two women). Filing won't do anything to her or change any feelings, other than maybe being surprised because she never thought I would nut up and do it?

Please, let me know if I'm hitting the mark. If not, please correct me. I'm trying to understand what you're really saying here


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

She is not being logical to you. She's being quite logical to herself. 

She's not into you. She's seeking somebody out that she's actually into. 

In order for you to properly evaluate her actions, you must properly see her actions. Watch her actions toward you. That will be what is most telling.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, you move on and work on you. 

Common sense says if she tells me she doesn't want me, has an affair, moves out, lives on her own, hunts for dates and wants a divorce she doesn't WANT ME. Again ACTIONS speak louder than words. Yes, let's say she kicked him to the curb, she still isn't LIVING WITH YOU.

Just saying.

Depression makes it easier to cheat, some studies say so, but it doesn't make it right nor impossible to stop.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> She is not being logical to you. She's being quite logical to yourself.
> 
> She's not into you. She's seeking somebody out that she's actually into.
> 
> ...


Those are non-existant. She doesn't reach out. When I did send her the message yesterday, I got a positive response, I'd say. Nothing else there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> Those are non-existant. She doesn't reach out. When I did send her the message yesterday, I got a positive response, I'd say. Nothing else there
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A positive response because she responded? That is your spin on it. 

Don't confuse courtesy with desire. That is the needy side of you looking for bread crumbs.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> A positive response because she responded? That is your spin on it.
> 
> Don't confuse courtesy with desire. That is the needy side of you looking for bread crumbs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


If that's the case, then it was courteous. All signs point to "I'm done with this." except her not filing for divorce and leaving her stuff behind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> A positive response because she responded? That is your spin on it.
> 
> Don't confuse courtesy with desire. That is the needy side of you looking for bread crumbs.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



QFT!!!.. Listen to these guys !!


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> Uhmmmm...what??


Well, of course! Casting spells! Why we didn't think of that earlier?


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> I can't do anything to get her back, but I feel like I can at least change her perception of me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would bet my last dollar that she already knows you are a nice guy who cares very much about her.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

As I said when this thread first started, you become the bad guy if you file because you didn't wait. Yet, all of her actions show you, common sense again, she doesn't want to be married. Pack that garbage up, put it in storage, pay the first month and have the future bills sent to her.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> I would bet my last dollar that she already knows you are a nice guy who cares very much about her.


Everyone and their mama knows that. But, something must have changed in her view of me for her to get to this point. Right??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> As I said when this thread first started, you become the bad guy if you file because you didn't wait. Yet, all of her actions show you, common sense again, she doesn't want to be married. Pack that garbage up, put it in storage, pay the first month and have the future bills sent to her.


That puts me in a bit of a pickle, then...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> Everyone and their mama knows that. But, something must have changed in her view of me for her to get to this point. Right??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, your wife still knows you are very nice and care about her. She did not start pursuing other men because she thought you didn't care about her. In her mind, I think she wanted to go out and experience new things.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> No, your wife still knows you are very nice and care about her. She did not start pursuing other men because she thought you didn't care about her. In her mind, I think she wanted to go out and experience new things.



There's a lot of variables in this thing. This was another one I considered. As much as she thought she was ready for this, she clearly was not. Our tough times kind of prove that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> I thought that. Let's just say her kicking OM to the curb is true. She tells me this. If that was the case, my common sense tells me that this would have been her wakeup call. Things fizzled out with this guy. She found fault in him. Cool. When she told me that, this would have been her time to come forward and acknowledge _something_. Get her out of the fog, so to speak. It would have been the beginning of trying to repair herself and whatever bridges she destroyed between us.
> 
> Now, even if there is no OM, like you say, she's made it clear she's still on the hunt for a new OM. She's not being logical. Her life must be chaos from being broke to being homeless to being lonely. If she wanted to, she would have came back already. But, like I've seen, dealing with someone that is still in a fog and not thinking logically or even rationally, there's not much I can do.
> 
> ...


FFS.

Call your best friend. Tell him to smack you upside the head very hard.

And tell him to do it every day you even think/rationalize/fantasize/try to come up with answers for your ex.

Stop it. **** her.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

marduk said:


> FFS.
> 
> Call your best friend. Tell him to smack you upside the head very hard.
> 
> ...


QFT.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> FFS.
> 
> Call your best friend. Tell him to smack you upside the head very hard.
> 
> ...


I still plan on filing by the end of next week. I still want answers.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> I still want answers.


To what?


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> To what?


Why she did what she did? What was she thinking? Did she even plan this out? How long had she been contemplating this? Was it random? Did she even _want _to be married? Why did she lie? If she wanted a divorce, why not just be a big girl and say so? Why weren't we worth working on together? Why hasn't she moved her stuff out fully?


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You won't get them. 

You want to know the real answer? She did it because she was selfish. That's it. That's all. No mystery. 

The sooner you accept that the sooner your healing begins.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> I still plan on filing by the end of next week. I still want answers.


You may never get them.

And even if you do, they'll likely be 90% lies mixed with 10% truth.

They will have a very low utility. You might as well go to the dump and start picking through garbage, trying to find scraps that are useful.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

FSJ is right.

You won't get any answers. Just the rationalization hamster spinning its wheels.

You best course is to shun her attempts to explain. Don't listen to her tell you how
you weren't there for her crap. 

Just let her go.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Why she did what she did? What was she thinking? Did she even plan this out? How long had she been contemplating this? Was it random? Did she even _want _to be married? Why did she lie? If she wanted a divorce, why not just be a big girl and say so? Why weren't we worth working on together? Why hasn't she moved her stuff out fully?


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end,
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> Why she did what she did? What was she thinking? Did she even plan this out? How long had she been contemplating this? Was it random? Did she even _want _to be married? Why did she lie? If she wanted a divorce, why not just be a big girl and say so? Why weren't we worth working on together? Why hasn't she moved her stuff out fully?


I can completely understand how you very much want to have answers to these questions. I'm sorry to tell you that you will never have satisfying answers to your questions even if she offers to answer them. There are no logical explanations and anything she says will be to put herself in the best light. 

Among your questions above, her answers will often be "I don't know" I don't understand myself" and "I don't remember".


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You are young, an Idealist, honest, trustworthy and naïve.

As a young man with little wear on your tires, you CAN weather this slippery road.

When you age and mature, your tread and patience will thin. 

You will question your sanity for going down hill, lickity-split....no brakes on her car...you hanging onto her bum-per!

Let her go....she is too ordinary, not a keeper. There are plenty of other good women "out there" that will not "Pull this Taffy" on you.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> I wish I could claim credit for this masterpiece but I can't. It belongs to very wise member from another website. It should be etched in the minds of every man and woman who has been the victim on infidelity.
> 
> Just Let Them Go
> 
> ...


I'm really going to have to sit here for a while and process this. Not in a bad way, but because of the type of viewpoint and perspective it's showing. Wow...*stares off into the distance*


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> Among your questions above, her answers will often be "I don't know" I don't understand myself" and "I don't remember".


I had went this route soon after therapy and how she said she no longer wanted to go/wanted to go just because I wanted to. That's pretty much what I got. "I didn't feel like it", "I don't know"...*BS, BS, BS.* I thought maybe with time, she would eventually look back on things and find an answer. Or even look within herself as she's doing these things. But, no. Empty handed, I walk away.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> You are young, an Idealist, honest, trustworthy and naïve.
> 
> As a young man with little wear on your tires, you CAN weather this slippery road.
> 
> ...


That was very kind. Thank you. :grin2:


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> Why she did what she did? What was she thinking? Did she even plan this out? How long had she been contemplating this? Was it random? Did she even _want _to be married? Why did she lie? If she wanted a divorce, why not just be a big girl and say so? Why weren't we worth working on together? Why hasn't she moved her stuff out fully?


Because she hates herself it's easier to blame you for her lot in life than to look in the mirror.

And when you are at fault for everything the easiest solution for her is to go find someone else to be the KISA that saves her. 

And guess what? KISA #1...KISA #2... will be just like you a couple of years down the road. Lather, rinse, repeat. 

She cannot escape herself.

You, on the other hand, don't have to put up with her $hit any more. Get off the train!


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Tron said:


> Because she hates herself it's easier to blame you for her lot in life than to look in the mirror.
> 
> And when you are at fault for everything the easiest solution for her is to go find someone else to be the KISA that saves her.
> 
> ...


Agreed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Why she did what she did? What was she thinking? Did she even plan this out? How long had she been contemplating this? Was it random? Did she even _want _to be married? Why did she lie? If she wanted a divorce, why not just be a big girl and say so? Why weren't we worth working on together? Why hasn't she moved her stuff out fully?


Having an affair is a decision. She made it. It's just that simple. 

She is planning on keeping you for a backup, plan B.

Nothing unique here. Happens all the time. Most nevertheless a definite answer. 

The cheaters mantra is to lie, hide and deny. They are for the most part all the same.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> Having an affair is a decision. She made it. It's just that simple.
> 
> She is planning on keeping you for a backup, plan B.
> 
> ...


Oooh. Boy, I wish she would! 

My screenshots and emails have more truth than that 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> I had went this route soon after therapy and how she said she no longer wanted to go/wanted to go just because I wanted to. That's pretty much what I got. "I didn't feel like it", "I don't know"...*BS, BS, BS.* I thought maybe with time, she would eventually look back on things and find an answer. Or even look within herself as she's doing these things. But, no. Empty handed, I walk away.


Let me lay an even heavier trip on you that will bust your ego.

She may actually not know. Because she never bothered to actually think about it.

Because her marriage and relationship with you didn't matter enough to her for her to actually think about it.

Or she lacks the ability to even try.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> Let me lay an even heavier trip on you that will bust your ego.
> 
> She may actually not know. Because she never bothered to actually think about it.
> 
> ...


Probably all of the above.

Side question: would exposing her at the end of this do anything? Only a few people know the truth. I'm not sure what she's told people, but odds are it's her distorted perception of reality. Too petty? Just right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Probably all of the above.
> 
> Side question: would exposing her at the end of this do anything? Only a few people know the truth. I'm not sure what she's told people, but odds are it's her distorted perception of reality. Too petty? Just right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It might. For you.

What would it do for you?


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> It might. For you.
> 
> What would it do for you?


Make me feel better. She has a tendency to lie about things to save face or to look like a victim (I have reliable sources to prove that).

I guess I want her to see what she's actually been doing. Since she won't do it on her own. I want people to see exactly what kind of person she is deep down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> Make me feel better. She has a tendency to lie about things to save face or to look like a victim (I have reliable sources to prove that).
> 
> I guess I want her to see what she's actually been doing. Since she won't do it on her own. I want people to see exactly what kind of person she is deep down.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It won't make you feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

marduk said:


> It might. For you.
> 
> What would it do for you?


This is key.

For a codependent, this seems counterintuitive. But, to be an attractive man, you have to have a plan.

That plan serves to make YOU happy by doing what YOU want to do.

Asking her "if it's ok honey" greatly lowers your value in the relationship. It's ingested (by her) as weak and needy.

You seek her approval. She hates herself. You must not be worth a thing if you care what she thinks.

Lather - rinse - repeat, until she's banging posOM.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> > Don't listen to what she says, watch what she does.QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You should learn to love yourself, and once you do that...you won't let this woman or any woman treat you like a doormat. Your ''wife'' has treated you like a doormat for a very VERY long time, it seems. You allowed it, though. We get what we accept. I think that you just need time to heal. And once you give yourself time, you will find that there are women out there who are loving, caring, and will not treat you like a doormat. Until then, commit to enjoying life without anyone, and learn to love yourself.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> You should learn to love yourself, and once you do that...you won't let this woman or any woman treat you like a doormat. Your ''wife'' has treated you like a doormat for a very VERY long time, it seems. You allowed it, though. We get what we accept. I think that you just need time to heal. And once you give yourself time, you will find that there are women out there who are loving, caring, and will not treat you like a doormat. Until then, commit to enjoying life without anyone, and learn to love yourself.


We teach people how to treat us.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Don't misunderstand.
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> You should learn to love yourself, and once you do that...you won't let this woman or any woman treat you like a doormat. Your ''wife'' has treated you like a doormat for a very VERY long time, it seems. You allowed it, though. We get what we accept. I think that you just need time to heal. And once you give yourself time, you will find that there are women out there who are loving, caring, and will not treat you like a doormat. Until then, commit to enjoying life without anyone, and learn to love yourself.


That's partly why I feel so cheated, but I can accept my part of the blame for allowing it.

"Wife" in quotes....I need to start referring to her this way if I ever need to again :grin2:

I know there are women out there who will treat me the way I deserve. I'm not sure if you read earlier on in the thread, I have already met someone new. This woman is great. We have not known each other for very long, but what she has shown me thus far is just what I deserve. She's catching feelings and has been open about it. I asked her, "how is that possible? I'm not even really doing anything!" To be realistic, I really am not. The occasional flirting, conversations, hanging out. She tells me, "you make me smile all of the time just by looking at you. You be yourself...that's all you need to do"

Even if things don't pan out with her, which I will not bank on 100%, it at least shows me there's still decent women out there that will accept, like and potentially love me for me.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

darkheavy said:


> That's partly why I feel so cheated, but I can accept my part of the blame for allowing it.
> 
> "Wife" in quotes....I need to start referring to her this way if I ever need to again :grin2:
> 
> ...


Admittedly, I didn't read all 14 pages of this thread. lol :laugh:

Glad you met a nice woman. Just remember though, don't let women define you. It shouldn't take meeting a good woman, for you to feel like you're a good guy. That is what I learned about myself from letting men in relationships, treat me like a doormat. Life is beautiful alone, or with someone...but if we only think life is worthwhile if we're in a relationship, we are missing out on the whole of life. I wish you well!


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Admittedly, I didn't read all 14 pages of this thread. lol :laugh:
> 
> Glad you met a nice woman. Just remember though, don't let women define you. It shouldn't take meeting a good woman, for you to feel like you're a good guy. That is what I learned about myself from letting men in relationships, treat me like a doormat. Life is beautiful alone, or with someone...but if we only think life is worthwhile if we're in a relationship, we are missing out on the whole of life. I wish you well!


It's a long read. I go through quite a bit of backsliding, fantasizing, rationalizing...it's just a mess. Entertain yourself with it later!

I never thought about looking at myself in that way. My buddy had mentioned that to me before. "Where is the line in the sand for you, man? You always let this happen...then it gets to the point where you're accepting things that are unacceptable."

I know I'm a good guy. 99% of the people that know me or have known me will tell you that. Getting out of this marriage, it's going to take some time to "relocate" myself internally. I don't need a woman to define me. I was just looking for actual proof that there are good women out there still that will like me for who I am. I've found that, and with that, my confidence is sky high atm.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> > She may show up, she may not. I can't really focus on that any more. It's a waste of time. It's a waste of thought.
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > She won't.
> ...


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Either way, that part is out of my hands. It's an end result I can't be expecting, looking for, or (like I have been) fantasize about.
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Prayer is just fine.
> ...


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Can you please elaborate?
> ...


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy;15885017
I never thought about looking at myself in that way. My buddy had mentioned that to me before. "Where is the line in the sand for you said:


> And, each and every time, you lose your personal power in the process.
> 
> Anthony DeMello imparted some serious wisdom in his book "Awareness". I'd recommend you read it. It's free on line.
> 
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> What concerns me is that you CONSTANTLY seem willing to do things you're not ok with - to please other people.
> 
> This makes you a doormat - and your personal power slips from you like sand in an hourglass with each and every one of these concessions.


Agreed. Now that this has been brought to light, I really can't deny it. Not even just in my marriage, but previous relationships that I've had. It almost seems as if I _enjoyed _being a doormat. It's weird to finally see that about myself. It explains a lot.


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> Not even just in my marriage, but previous relationships that I've had.


Fix this and you may find yourself a "keeper".

Until then, you will attract the wrong kind of woman.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> Fix this and you may find yourself a "keeper".
> 
> Until then, you will attract the wrong kind of woman.


My track record proves your point!


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

ReturntoZero said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Prayer helps. Pray for the strength and discernment to make the right move. Then make it.
> ...


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Can you please elaborate?
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> > Praying for strength is good.
> ...


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

darkheavy said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Marduk, trust me. I've tried that. All that happened was my "wife" getting pushed farther and farther away. I take that at as a sign to let go. This is a challenge, yes. I agree. I prayed last night knowing what I have to do, and that is to finally start to fully let go and distance myself from this.
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

marduk said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > What's the plan?
> ...


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> > Okay...
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Do you believe you can simply break lifelong habits without help?
> ...


----------



## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

darkheavy said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> > "Help"??
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ButtPunch said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Therapy for codependency. You need it or the cycle will keep repeating.
> ...


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> ButtPunch said:
> 
> 
> > Ohhhh! Right! Got ya.
> ...


----------



## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

darkheavy said:


> marduk said:
> 
> 
> > . I still don't believe in divorce. But, unfortunately, it's what needs to be done at this point as well.
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Steve1000 said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Imagine for a moment that divorce was illegal. That means that you'd have to deal with this *for the rest of your life*.
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> darkheavy said:
> 
> 
> > Count on you.
> ...


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> ReturntoZero said:
> 
> 
> > You mean like self-help books??
> ...


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Hey, all.

I just want you all to know I appreciate your input and advice. I can't thank you all enough for that. Really.

Just a quick update....

I have been talking to my buddy a lot this weekend. He's still on the same page as most of you. He basically helped me peel back the layers of myself internally to get at the heart of why I'm feeling the way I am. It's been very eye-opening and somewhat painful to face these feelings and emotions head on. I'm still continuing to move forward and work on myself bit by bit. I haven't talked to my W and she hasn't reached out to me. I plan on keeping it that way. I'm finding myself thinking about her less and less and less as time goes on.

I have also been spending a lot of time with this new girl and things are going great. It's a bit difficult coming from the way I've been treated in my M to a new "relationship". I put that in quotes because we are not "together" at the moment, but I'm not talking to anyone else. I'm looking at this as the way things are SUPPOSED to be. It's driving the point home further that there are indeed other women out there that are better for me. Ones that will treat me how I deserve to be treated. She's even going so far as to help me personally through this process (packing her stuff up, filing, my personal goals, etc.). 

When I get some time, I will update further.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Hey, all.
> 
> I just want you all to know I appreciate your input and advice. I can't thank you all enough for that. Really.
> 
> ...


This is an extraordinarily dangerous time.

Simply wallpapering over this with a new relationship has you back here - with no growth - within 18-24 months.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Another update.

Things haven't gone very well since I was on here last. With the back rent issue, last week, I reminded her nicely, and she responded in civil manner. I went to mention it again the other day, and she came at me pretty hard.

She claims I am being manipulative, trying to take all of her money. I just want her to pay her half of the amount owed, like she told me she would. Just honor that one simple agreement. She says she's not giving me another dime. This really screws me over. I can't financially handle all of that. I'm supposed to meet with my landlord tonight to hash things out so I can attempt to do this.

The other half of her "attack" was about Facebook and her family. She brought up the fact that I have her blocked from seeing anything on my page (Restricted list). I don't see the relevance, but okay. Other thing she was really mad about was that I still communicate with her cousin, mainly. I still like her. Her family sometimes comments or likes my things I post. Nothing going on there. She also had claimed that I'm trying to turn her family against her. I'm not seeing any of this. I attempted to ask in detail where this is coming from and how she's assessing everything. She's done "kissing my ***". Threatened to get a pro bono lawyer for women. I'm thoroughly confused at this point. It seemed like when I tried to ask about these things, I didn't get an answer (as expected). It seemed more to me like she was upset with something going on in her life and she was just taking it out on me because I'm the easiest target to project feelings onto right now.

Yesterday, she said I "expect too much" and she "doesn't have it (money)". The only way she will help with the back rent is if I got half on the filing fee ($300). You all know my mentality. She wants to be free, have your own things, make your own way alone...more power to you. But, she did what she did. She wanted this, I did not. I feel like she's maybe trying to make me hate her in a way, so I just go along with things. No idea.

My counter offer is to indeed pay the $150 when I can pony that up. BUT, I want her to sign an agreement with me, saying she will pay her half of the total amount owed, in installments. That will be the only way for me.

I also have to admit my lack of focus with things that are high priority lately. I came home the other day, and the electric company shut my power off. The past due balance is more than I can shell out right now. I'm currently without power and staying with the new lady friend in the interim. This was not my idea. She is still making me stay there at night. I am frantically looking for a roommate situation so I can get back on my feet. May have to pick up a night/weekend job to get this all done. 

Hopefully this offer goes well. I'm going to present her with it this weekend and see what she says. I reached out to her father about it. I told him what was going on as I'm not sure what my stbxw has let out. I simply asked if he would get her to come around to the idea. She doesn't seem to want to listen to many people, but, being the man he is, he may be helpful in this.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Dark,

does your wife drive a car? and if so who pays for it? is it in both your names?


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

Xenote said:


> Dark,
> 
> does your wife drive a car? and if so who pays for it? is it in both your names?


The friend she's staying with has a spare minivan she's using while she works and saves for her own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sounds like you're still expecting reasonable behavior from unreasonable people.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> Sounds like you're still expecting reasonable behavior from unreasonable people.


I now realize that. There is still no logic to be had. I'm trying my best (and succeeding I think) on making this more like a business transaction without any feelings involved. Trying to be as fair and reasonable as possible without compromising anything for myself. Even when I make it strictly business, she somehow makes it personal with throwing emotions into things. I'm not sure why I'm surprised. I keep putting my expectations of her actions and thoughts (to what a level of "normal" should be) too high. I was surprised but not at the same time. With the nature of this beast, I shouldn't expect much of anything at this point except confusion and frustration. Should keep it to low/nothing at this point to avoid doing that to myself further. Also seems as if I may be getting reeled back in with the way she's addressing me.

She came back to the apartment on Wednesday to get the rest of her stuff with her mother (or so she claims...I haven't been back there in a bit). 

Even so, I'm still taking things one day at a time here. When she messaged me Tuesday to confirm, I got more of the same attitude which was totally unwarranted on all levels. I told her I would follow up with her on her decision about the contract idea at the end of the week. A whole week should be ample time to think about it. I'm hoping she'll come around to the idea, but hey, at this point, anything can happen with that. She still wants to be divorced, but won't do anything about it to make it happen. I may wind up taking a sunk loss on the back rent. If so, at _least _I made an attempt. 

It's a bit difficult trying to be the bigger person (on a moral and ethical stance) with this while trying to get the message across that I'm not her doormat or punching bag anymore.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Only do what you're ok with doing.

Nothing more - nothing less.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> Only do what you're ok with doing.
> 
> Nothing more - nothing less.


Absolutely agree 100%. No more backing down or changing anything. In the past, I've been known to do that. *Not anymore.*


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I think it is 2x4 time for you. 

If I understand correctly your wife began an adulterious relationship in May. By mid June she is out of the apartment and you have a FWB relationship with a recently divorced woman with two daughters. At this point you are posting about wanting her back but hooking up with your FWB. Why should your WS come back as you are just as bad as her. Step back and look at your FWB partner. You are using her as a feel good fix. And that is shameful. You are not 3,6,9 months out waiting for the final decree. I always advise BS that the WS actions do not define, it is their reaction that defines them. Your reaction in this matter do not speak well of you. 

Second you are not a good guy, you are a nice guy: a nebbish, a putzs, a martyr without a cause. The difference is a good guy can and will gut someone without a second thought at times. I suggest you read no more mister nice guy. https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

Why are you not planning to leave central PA and move back to NJ? There is to much going on right now is no excuss not to be planning. Have you done a job search? Have you discussed trying to move back with your parents, Sibs, best bud? Have you looked into finding a roommate situation with a cheap rent and sending the difference to your landlord until the back rent is paid? 

As to her not paying you, small claims court. Have you ever watch judge Judy? No lawyers, little or no cost to you. You have documents, she does not case close and a repayment schedule is set up. 

I get the chance you have little self esteem. That you might seek out woman like your wife to create a debt on their part to hold over them. 

If I am wrong, I am wrong but you need to look in the mirror and seriously consider what I have discussed. As I said you are not a good guy, you are a nice guy. The thing is to be a good guy a part of you has to be a nice guy. Keep the nice just add the "thats bull**** and bull**** gets pushed out the door. 

Seriously be well, become the person you can admire.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

@marduk and @farside your thoughts on my post.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

As far as I know, it was May. Could have started as early as December of last year. You are right in a sense. I _did_ want her back at one point. But, throughout this process and mental gymnastics of back-and-forth, I realized I can't. It's not best for either of us. Right now, it's about ending things as best as possible.

After she did what she did, I mentioned I continued to monitor what she was doing, saving evidence. I can't say I'm proud of doing it or that I wasn't in a fog at the time, but I did it. I saw it as that, she made this abundantly clear on several occasions that she is done with me. There is no "in love". She wants her last name back. She wants to be left alone. That's fine. I'm no longer bound by anything at all with her. She's claimed to have moved on. That's expected. So, onward I go.

Please explain your second point a bit more.

I thought about moving back to NJ but I have little to no family there to fall back on. My immediate family moved to Florida and sold the house last year. Any that I still have there aren't very reliable in that sense. Plus, it's quite expensive to live there. My parents have my little sister and brother along with my older brother there, so, no room/funds. I have been franitically looking into a roommate situation while I pay off any debts I have including the back rent. I mentioned that in a previous post somewhere. Also looking into going back to school to finish out my major. Also mentioned earlier that this was one of the things I had to put on hold for what I thought were the right reasons. Once I get to my bachelor's, I'll be able to work anywhere I want. I could work a normal job now, but I want something more fulfilling. I've wanted a specific type of work within my major, and I'm going to do just that.

I'll have to look into small claims court.

Normally, my self esteem is average/above average. After D-Day, it did plummet quite a bit. If anything at this point, I want someone not like my stbxw. The comfort of having a person similar will be short lived, followed by reality coming back and realizing this is the same destructive path.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I think your response is well reasoned. It shows a BS coming out of the fog of denial and low self esteem. One might say you have turned a corner. You might have allowed a woman two small daughters to become at some level to become depended on you. How will you fix this mess?


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

JohnA said:


> You might have allowed a woman two small daughters to become at some level to become depended on you. How will you fix this mess?


This is absolutely true. I've been trying to get even a minute to have to myself to reflect and plan on what the next move is. But, I'm slowly realizing with two kids and the woman, it's a slim to none chance :|

I finally have had the "forehead smack" moment. For some odd reason, looking back, I think I may have enjoyed living and purposely/inadvertently living in some sort of chaos. Moving from one mess or situation to the next without really weighing my options. This is definitely happening now.

I really need to hit the eject button on this one as soon as I possibly can. I've still been in touch with my buddy from Jersey as well as my older sister. They are the only two that are aware of every single detail of what's happening currently. They both advised that I talk to my father down in Florida, openly and honestly. At this point, what I want for myself is a fresh start, somewhere new. I can't think about much or work on myself. Things are just too hot right now. Mentally, I still get a lot of "static". Meaning, there is so much going on, I can't seem to grab a decent focus on anything. I'm going to talk to my father after I get out of work in a couple of hours. Hopefully my parents will be able to take me in temporarily while I get back on my feet and sort myself out. I need my family now more than ever, anyway. Also with that, I'm going to be looking at jobs in their area or not too far away. This is so they don't get the impression I'm going to be getting comfortable. This is just a temporary setting until I can get out.

Question though...my buddy has been spot on thus far with his advice. Everything has worked like a charm. This one bit I am questioning just a tad...he suggested I have a casual check up with her about once a week. His reasoning was that the nature of this beast is hard in every sense. Doing this may soften her up a bit. Obviously not bringing up the marriage unless I have to. It makes sense in a way. It contradicts my 180 a little, but, she is a bit of a "special" case to me.


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I thought you parents where in Fl. Fl has a strange economy. You either do well or stave and those that well are not many. 

As to your buddy are you sure he is not making it easier for you to agree? Tell others say it is a really bad idea and you agree and see what his response will be. 

Do not be a Plan A and Plan B BS. Even the Dr who proposes advises that divorce is most likely the best choice in cases of adultery. He is adamant he would divorce. So who is this plan for, it is for people who would rather live in pain than start over. I've seen posts that state their is a success rate of 15%.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

JohnA said:


> I thought you parents where in Fl. Fl has a strange economy. You either do well or stave and those that well are not many.
> 
> As to your buddy are you sure he is not making it easier for you to agree? Tell others say it is a really bad idea and you agree and see what his response will be.
> 
> Do not be a Plan A and Plan B BS. Even the Dr who proposes advises that divorce is most likely the best choice in cases of adultery. He is adamant he would divorce. So who is this plan for, it is for people who would rather live in pain than start over. I've seen posts that state their is a success rate of 15%.


Yes, my parents are in Florida. Most of my immediate family are with them as well.

You're going to have to explain the rest of that post because for some reason I can't seem to wrap my head around it...


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

You and a lot of other people. Think in terms of accepting an open marriage (ie let them have fun) while you work at being a better man for her to return to, oh and stay faithful.


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

JohnA said:


> You and a lot of other people. Think in terms of accepting an open marriage (ie let them have fun) while you work at being a better man for her to return to, oh and stay faithful.


I can explain it better. Be a sexless cuckold and play the "pick me dance". While the wayward has passion filled affair sex. :|


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I like Marc's explanation better. Here is the thing though he advises "kill the affair" by exsposing the adultery to everyone including children 4 or above. He advises to confront AP. His policy of joint agreement is good. All good but the lack of 180 at that point is hard to accept.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> Absolutely agree 100%. No more backing down or changing anything. In the past, I've been known to do that. *Not anymore.*


What's changed?


----------



## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

JohnA said:


> I like Marc's explanation better. Here is the thing though he advises "kill the affair" by exsposing the adultery to everyone including children 4 or above. He advises to confront AP. His policy of joint agreement is good. All good but the lack of 180 at that point is hard to accept.


Thanks @JohnA :grin2:


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

It's been a while since I've posted.

I have had a bit of a hard time with finding a solid place to live. Thankfully enough, I've made friends with some good people over my time in the area. My friend has opened her home to me and things are decent now.

Things still hurt quite a bit, but I'm doing what's best for me. I've blocked my STBX from every social media outlet. She only texts about the divorce and nothing else. I had to put my foot down about that before, she now finally gets that.

I am moving to Florida to be with my family. I need a new start. I went down over the holiday weekend to do job interviews and visit them. It was a blast, but the humidity is NO JOKE! I landed a decent job and my parents are making room for me. I should be down and ready to start over in about a month tops.

I've found my self confidence again. I'm smiling more and laughing more than I have in the past five years (that's how long we were together). I'm enjoying life the way I want to. This is only the beginning. Now that I will have the love and support of my family, I feel amazing. I no longer pine for my STBX. I still have my random thoughts and feelings of sadness of what "could have been". I embrace it. Let it sit. Get upset for a few minutes if I need to. Then move on. This was her loss. This is her doing. I'm going to be just fine  There's still some personal growth and lessons to learn and apply, but I'm ready for it. I'm ready for the next chapter of MY life.

Only major issue is that she's still dragging her feet with the papers. I still have no received them. Should be in the next two weeks (though I've heard that line already). 

Just wanted to finally say "thank you" to anyone that has put their two cents in here. Looking back that fog was PRETTY thick. As time goes on, I can gradually see it lifting.


----------



## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

In an odd way, she did you a favor by leaving, not that she was trying to be benevolent. This was a relationship that was doomed from the beginning, she is and will always be a person that is never pleased with any relationship, because she really is not happy with herself. She will always blame others for the problems in her life and will always be seeking the high of a new relationship. Take time to reflect on the relationship and look at where you could have done better and apply those lessons to the next relationship. Work hard and look to get a place of your own, so you can move on with your life. She will either file or not file, you may need to file sometime in the future, but you have more pressing matters right now.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> It's been a while since I've posted.
> 
> I have had a bit of a hard time with finding a solid place to live. Thankfully enough, I've made friends with some good people over my time in the area. My friend as opened her home to me and things are decent now.
> 
> ...


What are you doing (for you) to make certain it does not happen again - with someone else?


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Cheers bud... divorce isn't that bad, just ending a chapter in your life and starting a new one. Just think of all of the new and wonderful women you are about to have fun with! Here's a tip, date many at one time. Don't get hung up on the first one, just keep your options open. Eat and drink healthy, work out. Being healthy and having some muscle will give you boost in confidence. Trust me, the gym and my diet is where I put my focus during my divorce and I love the new me.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

VFW said:


> In an odd way, she did you a favor by leaving, not that she was trying to be benevolent. This was a relationship that was doomed from the beginning, she is and will always be a person that is never pleased with any relationship, because she really is not happy with herself. She will always blame others for the problems in her life and will always be seeking the high of a new relationship. Take time to reflect on the relationship and look at where you could have done better and apply those lessons to the next relationship. Work hard and look to get a place of your own, so you can move on with your life. She will either file or not file, you may need to file sometime in the future, but you have more pressing matters right now.


I couldn't agree more. I still take responsibility for my part in the downfall, though it takes two to tango, so to speak. I plan on doing all of that. I have one full time and one part time job lined up. I plan to work both to get out of my parents' quicker. Hopefully, by the new year I will have my own place. 

The papers I'm not holding my breath on. It's no real matter to me at this point. Not like she was making it a priority anyway. :rofl:


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> What are you doing (for you) to make certain it does not happen again - with someone else?


Ah! ReturntoZero! We meet again!

....do you have time to listen to that?


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

I've got all day.

Let me have it.


----------



## wbellyboy (Sep 27, 2016)

I am in the same situation. The most important thing right now is caring about YOU. Put your love to the side and take care of yourself. It isn't selfish,but it is important. Eating less is normal,not concentrating on anything else is normal. She will be attracted to the good state you will be in. Be strong and like others on here have said immerse yourself into something that will keep you busy and not idle. Nothing is impossible so I hope in time you either heal or get back together,but nothing else. Good luck!


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> I've got all day.
> 
> Let me have it.


Apologies for the late response. To backtrack, I needed to realize some of the mistakes I've made in our five year "stint".

-I tend to put the women I'm with on a pedestal. I need to realize that while I think the world of them, they are only human. It may also tend to give them leeway to take advantage of me.

-I have a problem not speaking up when someone or something upsets me. Poor communication which doesn't validate my own feelings.

-I realized that most of the time when things _were_ important to me (visiting my family, events, etc), I never got any support or emphasis from her on it. She knew it mattered, but never did much to help or empathize. 

-I hold on to things for too long. I needed a _*wife *_, not a child. I have a tendency to hope for the best, knowing it won't ever get better. I should have let go sooner.

Those are just some things I saw wrong. Once I get settled, I plan on looking for a decent therapist just to make sure I've unpacked all of my emotions and feelings fully and properly. Beyond that, to make sure it doesn't happen again...I'm going to listen to my gut more. A lot of times, things felt "off" or just "not fully right". I threw caution to the wind too much, and things wind up not well for me. So many red flags and warnings that I didn't address for reasons I'm unsure of. Naïve? Fear? Hope? I'm not going to put my partner on a pedestal. I'm trying to be more fair to myself in that sense of acknowledging my own feelings and validating them. When I have a problem with someone or something, I'm going to speak up. Not going to depend on anyone. I think that was also a huge thing. I need to have my own things. When I looked to her to help financially, I got nothing but resistance. I can't do all of that on my own. I'm going to take things slower, letting them happen organically. Too many times thing had felt forced or rushed. 

I think that's all I have for now. This is still a leaning process for me. 

As another update: I finally got my papers served to me. She jumped down my throat about it. Unfortunately, I lost my cool. I had been well up until last night. I had a bit of an emotional hangover from that this morning, but I'm over it. She's simply projecting whatever miserable existence she has on to me. Just trying to get under my skin again. The more she does this, the more it proves that I deserve and have deserved better than this. Such a shame.

I believe I'm now in the 90 day wait period (there's no separation laws in PA). If things pan out, by January 1, 2017, I will legally be free! :smthumbup: I'm getting more and more excited about this new chapter!


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

wbellyboy said:


> I am in the same situation. The most important thing right now is caring about YOU. Put your love to the side and take care of yourself. It isn't selfish,but it is important. Eating less is normal,not concentrating on anything else is normal. She will be attracted to the good state you will be in. Be strong and like others on here have said immerse yourself into something that will keep you busy and not idle. Nothing is impossible so I hope in time you either heal or get back together,but nothing else. Good luck!


I agree, brother. That's what I'm worried about. The people I've surrounded myself with understand that it may seem selfish, but these are trying times for me. My support system is amazing right now. 

I went through the "less appetite/not eating as much" stage already. It's been back to normal for some time. If anything, I need to slow down :rofl:

My healing has already begun. Once I make my move, literally about 1,000 miles away, my focus will be better. I have been making plans for once I get settled in down South with my family.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Can you master the words, "I'm not ok with this"?

This is actually a far more difficult question than you realize.


----------



## darkheavy (Jun 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> Can you master the words, "I'm not ok with this"?
> 
> This is actually a far more difficult question than you realize.


I believe from fear in the past, I had chosen to not that to a _*lot *_of things and people. I have this weird fear of upsetting others and rocking the boat. But, with that being said, I sacrifice my own needs, wants and feelings for that. Obviously this isn't healthy. It's really time to make a change with that. Whether it be family, a friend or a partner...I can't keep doing this to myself. I could have been happier a lot of times if I had spoken up what I really felt. Definitely easier said than done. But, what choice do I have? I have to start doing this.


----------



## unbe (Dec 20, 2013)

dude its like looking into a mirror reading what you wrote.

just know your not alone going through this, all these different emotions. Fine one day, pulling your hair out the next.

Stay strong, keep the path. It will get better for you


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

darkheavy said:


> I believe from fear in the past, I had chosen to not that to a _*lot *_of things and people. I have this weird fear of upsetting others and rocking the boat. But, with that being said, I sacrifice my own needs, wants and feelings for that. Obviously this isn't healthy. It's really time to make a change with that. Whether it be family, a friend or a partner...I can't keep doing this to myself. I could have been happier a lot of times if I had spoken up what I really felt. Definitely easier said than done. But, what choice do I have? I have to start doing this.


No one can talk you into being "ok" with something you're not ok with.

Each time you use those words to gently, firmly stand up for yourself, you'll actually FEEL your personal power return.

It's a good feeling.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Dude look for a partner not a princess. Woman are just as sh1tty as the rest of us. By the way the only way this would have worked out is if she was a different person. A good SO is an asset when things get tough. You wife was a liability. Realize you bought a lemon with her, but also there are many great woman out there, you just have to pick the right one. 50% of a good marriage is who you pick to marry.

One other thing you need to be strong, weak men are not attractive to your average woman. Weak men get bullied and taken advantage of. When I say strong I don't mean aggressive I mean assertive. Read any board/thread where a man tries to hold on to a cheating wife and they are lots of them, and the common denominator is the same weakness that is making him take the abuse is the same thing that attracted the cheater to him. Cheaters know a safe bet, that the person will continue to pay for their lifestyle. In essence they are bullies. I don't think it is a coincidence, it's kind of the male version of how some woman are attracted to the bad boy and always end up miserable. In this case the cheater both woman and men can sniff out the person they can take advantage on. That is why they choose to marry them, they bang the ones they are attracted to. 

Good luck man.


----------

