# Question about liars, lying, and trash talking the BS



## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

For the past few days I've been mulling over the aspect of WS's trash talking and/or lying about their BS to family, friends, AP's, etc when they are in the throes of an affair. 

My WS trash talked me, and lied, to his mother and sister during his affair that took place in 2012. I don't care much for my MIL, and not much more for my SIL - OTOH, I don't care what they think about me. BUT, it did p*ss me off he was discussing our relationship, to begin with, and also as though I was this horrible person he was "thinking of leaving" when really he was just having an affair and projecting his BS onto me. He has since admitted to his family that he lied to them about the things he said about me. Some of the things he told them were complete confabulations and others mostly exaggerating based in some truth of existing problems. A lot of things he told them I did were things he had actually done. Go figure.

*What I don't understand is, in the general sense, why some people find these liars so believable to begin with.* A lot of the tripe they come up with is so stupid it would make me laugh, at them, if a wayward told me the same thing. I HATE being lied to and will usually call someone out on the behavior.

I realize some people trust implicitly, believe things because they want to, or know when they're being lied to but go along with it for whatever reason. Some people are naive. Some others have never been given a reason to not believe the liar in question in the past. OTOH, a lot of WS/liars are believed no matter how outlandish or BS'y the story sounds. Especially by their own families.

IDK if this makes any sense, maybe just rambling.....:scratchhead:. Hopefully made some sense.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

The person in the throes of an affair is doing something incredibly awful and hurtful to someone they are supposed to love above all else. The only way they can justify it is they make you out to be a monster, and if they tell everyone eventually they'll believe them and now the cheater is is the martyr, it's the way it is, I dealt with the same crap.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

When my ex-wife was cheating and neither I nor any friends or relatives knew about it, she would walk with her girlfriends and complain about me cheating and her wrecking her stuff.

Neither behavior was occurring.

There was a noticeable coldness from these women whenever I was around them. I could never figure out the stink eye, until years later when she admitted she had done that.

She never explained why she did that sick thing.

It was cruel and bizarre.

In some disturbing way I think she wanted sympathy from her friends so she could hear them join her trashing of me and justify her seeking out her affair.

Who knows why liars lie?

Sometimes they do it to manipulate opinions.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

michzz said:


> When my ex-wife was cheating and neither I nor any friends or relatives knew about it, she would walk with her girlfriends and complain about me cheating on her wrecking her stuff.
> 
> Neither behavior was occurring.
> 
> ...


Actually, I don't know why some of their "fairy tales" are so believable by others. I take being lied to as an insult to my intelligence and it ticks me off if I know or later find out I've been lied to. My MIL and SIL were both lied to by my WS. I think my MIL knew better at some level but my SIL completely bought it. Some of the stuff he told them was pretty dumb, laughable even. On many things he was clearly being dishonest with them. Regardless, my SIL bought it hook, line and sinker. MIL not so much. 

The whole thing is just weird to me.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

Cheaters become damn good liars - they are practicing it everyday of their affair. Practice makes perfect. Also, a lot of them may actually convince themselves their lies are truths. Like George Costanza said to Jerry when he was coaching him on how to lie: "It's not a lie if _you_ believe it". 

And yes, I was made out to be a serious pos bastard to all my stbxw's friends and family. She admitted it when we were in false R. Her folks and I used to be tight, and before dday they _hated_ my ass. I had no clue as to why at the time, of course.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

When she informed me of that whole scenario I immediately made her get on the phone to the leader of that pack and tell her that she was the liar and the cheat, not me.

Oh, you should have seen the tears and rage!

I'm sure right after that call and when I was out of ear shot she called her back and did damage control.

I am glad to be out that town and away from the slur she foisted upon my reputation to enhance hers.


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## Served Cold (May 25, 2014)

TryingToRecover said:


> For the past few days I've been mulling over the aspect of WS's trash talking and/or lying about their BS to family, friends, AP's, etc when they are in the throes of an affair.
> 
> My WS trash talked me, and lied, to his mother and sister during his affair that took place in 2012. I don't care much for my MIL, and not much more for my SIL - OTOH, I don't care what they think about me. BUT, it did p*ss me off he was discussing our relationship, to begin with, and also as though I was this horrible person he was "thinking of leaving" when really he was just having an affair and projecting his BS onto me. He has since admitted to his family that he lied to them about the things he said about me. Some of the things he told them were complete confabulations and others mostly exaggerating based in some truth of existing problems. A lot of things he told them I did were things he had actually done. Go figure.
> 
> ...



There's a saying that blood is thicker than water. I disagree, I believe that IGNORANCE is thicker than water. 

My cheating ex wife played the victim card and she fooled herself along with her family members, she *****ed about me, but she never came clean with her cheating with a player, a no money loser. An ******* with nothing to show for himself, an ******* who when I nicely showed her the door and she was free he didn't want her anymore.

My ex in laws were stupid, and I guess stupid apples don't fall too far from the tree.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Served Cold said:


> There's a saying that blood is thicker than water. I disagree, I believe that IGNORANCE is thicker than water.
> 
> My cheating ex wife played the victim card and she fooled herself along with her family members, she *****ed about me, but she never came clean with her cheating with a player, a no money loser. An ******* with nothing to show for himself, an ******* who when I nicely showed her the door and she was free he didn't want her anymore.
> 
> My ex in laws were stupid, and I guess stupid apples don't fall too far from the tree.


My in-laws are pretty smart people but my SIL has always been odd along with being emotionally unstable. She also has NO common sense, never has. If my WS told her the sky was green she'd believe it. I've never understood why she feels her younger brother/my husband can do no wrong but I've long believed that my SIL and MIL putting WS on a pedestal his entire childhood contributed greatly to his selfishness and entitlement issues. Unfortunately my FIL was not able to be around a lot due to his career taking him away from home every other two weeks. I suspect things would have been a lot different had he been able to be home more.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

We have all heard stories that are just so outlandish and crazy we believe it must be true because no one could actually make it all up. 

Ws will often tell the story and it grows and gets weirder each time they tell it, they want to play the victim card so they spin it till they become "the victim" 



TryingToRecover said:


> For the past few days I've been mulling over the aspect of WS's trash talking and/or lying about their BS to family, friends, AP's, etc when they are in the throes of an affair.
> 
> My WS trash talked me, and lied, to his mother and sister during his affair that took place in 2012. I don't care much for my MIL, and not much more for my SIL - OTOH, I don't care what they think about me. BUT, it did p*ss me off he was discussing our relationship, to begin with, and also as though I was this horrible person he was "thinking of leaving" when really he was just having an affair and projecting his BS onto me. He has since admitted to his family that he lied to them about the things he said about me. Some of the things he told them were complete confabulations and others mostly exaggerating based in some truth of existing problems. A lot of things he told them I did were things he had actually done. Go figure.
> 
> ...


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

I admit I fell for the badmouth story once, though I have to deal with people intents, motives, hidden agenda, etc daily. 

It is just your are looking at this good innocent looking lady and subconsciously you tend to believe her story (like no way She is lying) and you end up disappointed when you learn what was behind that innocent look. 

My assumption is that get so skilful in lying throughout their affair they have to problem fooling others. Of course this may be true for men as well.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Healer said:


> Cheaters become damn good liars - they are practicing it everyday of their affair. Practice makes perfect. Also, a lot of them may actually convince themselves their lies are truths. Like George Costanza said to Jerry when he was coaching him on how to lie: "It's not a lie if _you_ believe it".
> 
> And yes, I was made out to be a serious pos bastard to all my stbxw's friends and family. She admitted it when we were in false R. Her folks and I used to be tight, and before dday they _hated_ my ass. I had no clue as to why at the time, of course.


I'm sure OJ Simpson believes to this day that he did not kill Nicole or Ron Goldman. It's amazing the crap that people can convince themselves of.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Mostlycontent said:


> I'm sure OJ Simpson believes to this day that he did not kill Nicole or Ron Goldman. * It's amazing the crap that people
> 
> can convince themselves of*.


This aspect even after what I've gone through still amazes me, the ability for a person to embed an untruth into their brain and in the face of unarguable incontrovertible evidence* still believe it* and base / justify everything they say and do on that illusion!

Truly staggering

mstbx short of having a decent "my unmet needs" and other complaints of which there are few came up with the "my husband did no work in the marriage no financial input I did most of it whilst he sat in a corner and watched"

Got to the point with each dday (4) that I started believing her as well!

In our small home office we had all our work records from day one (15 yrs worth) I thought deep down this does not sound right. I know I have worked and done this and this and this etc etc so I checked it all. All of it every record. Took me about two months piecing everything together tax records, agency records, worksheets p45s p60's the whole lot. Turns out I worked more than she, earned a third more, also put £80,000 cash into our house at the start. She benefitted from remortgages and lumps of money, one £92,000 that enabled her and I to live partime for a few years early on. If low key luxury with no pressure other than to to wonder where the next holiday or car was coming from was your thing, she had it - the lot, and she worked part time for 10 years, none for three years and fulltime for 18 months in a dream job she didn't even need to have! 

The complete employment records show it to the letter to the day. My work mostly self employed and part time ( but very well paid) kept going for every day for 15 years, which actually allowed her to have the life of Riley she enjoyed (and she did enjoy it it too) BUT seeing as this was the thing she had used to slay me with, that she hung her adultery justifications upon, she stuck to her guns not realizing we actually had every single record every evidence and proof to the contrary! Her toxic friends and family upon hearing her very charismatic 'reasoning then' encouraged her in rebelling against the "terrible" life she was leading with me, her working all the hours God sends whilst I lapped it all up with my feet up! - this horrible, negative, dark person, who forced her to seek out other more "understanding" men !! (all married men with families waiting to be ripped to pieces, which they were)

And here's the crux the horrible evil bastards believed her ! Yes and before you know it she believed it herself. In the two and half years since she's been gone she still believes it!
I said to her only two months ago as she sat in our out house still raging on about my work record "Stop it, I can get you all the folders right now, here, this minute, have them in front of you to go through. In fact take them away with you and go through and see just how much lies, sh!t and damage you have done about this " Shall I get it ? Get it now for you" . (Btw I also said that two years ago after she left) I said sarcastically she might want to show these folders to all her friends and see what they think of them !! hehe 

Her response "Fk OFF! why do I need to see them. I know you did nothing to support us" (I was also the main child carer as my work was privately done in a studio at home so that allowed me to be flexible in my work about how we dealt with the kids)

Her last words at the beginning of June - "When I met you you retired! 
I've seen retired people put more effort into supporting a family than you did" !!! Evil bast**d 

*She STILL believes this* nomatter what the evidence ......When a person needs justification they will stop at nothing absolutely nothing.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

If you look at the seven stages of grief the first stage is denial and shock.

There are neon signs pointing at the person saying liar! And it's just human nature to be in disbelief. This is a stage though, but it can also be that some people "can't handle the truth" as cheesy as it sounds.

My mother is like that, even with every day things, she will say "why don't you just me be happy, and let me beleive it" or worse "just let them be happy, what's it to you if they think or don't know x".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

michzz said:


> Who knows why liars lie?
> 
> Sometimes *they do it to manipulate opinions.*


In one way or another, this is the reason for every lie told. Even the self-deluders lie to themselves to manipulate their opinions of themselves. They have crafted a narrative, which they either truly believe or cynically don't, and will say whatever they need to say to whomever will listen in support of that narrative.

And these narratives are believable to people who are disposed to be sympathetic to the narrator anyway (friends and relatives). 

An example from my own life (not related to infidelity): My father died in his 50's of a heart attack. He was a good man, but he smoked, drank, had a stressful job and didn't exercise. My mother has for years peddled the narrative that it was the fatty ethnic food he ate as a child that did him in. This is delusional, and I think it is because she does not want to contemplate the possibility that she did not do enough to try to help improve his lifestyle.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

They have to trash the BS to justify the affair/make it seem like a good idea they are exiting the relationship.

The people believe them because they are their loved ones (one tends to believe their loved one). Also, they are only hearing one side of the story.

It's not surprising. In fact, it happens with nearly every wayward. Standard operating procedure.

I'm more surprised that you are surprised. Lol.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Saying you did things that they actually did is the most amazing... They aren't bright enough to fabricate stories fearing they won't be plausible. But projecting... That isn't even projecting is it... Condemning you for what they did shows how clearly they recognize how wrong they are.

I don't buy affair fog when it comes to this kind of thing.

They know they are wrong. They show you who they really are deep down... I'm not sure that true self can change without a lot of therapy.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

It is wise to not buy the affair fog, as it is not real. It is an excuse, nothing more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> They have to trash the BS to justify the affair/make it seem like a good idea they are exiting the relationship.
> 
> The people believe them because they are their loved ones (one tends to believe their loved one). Also, they are only hearing one side of the story.
> 
> ...


I'm not a person who just believes in the face of clearly being lied to, even when it involves a family member. My grown kids have occasionally tried to BS me and I've called them out on it. I was suspicious of my WS long before an actual dday; I knew something was amiss and I knew when he started actually lying. My dad and I both seem to have excellent BS detectors. A gift and a curse, I suppose. 

I'm not surprised waywards lie, of course that's SOP. I'm just surprised that so many other people believe the lies they tell. Some people are good liars but it seems like a lot of WS's spin tales and excuses that truly push the envelope of sounding even remotely truthful. Especially to an extended family member who wouldn't have nearly the emotional investment a spouse would.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

TryingToRecover said:


> I'm not a person who just believes in the face of clearly being lied to, even when it involves a family member. My grown kids have occasionally tried to BS me and I've called them out on it. I was suspicious of my WS long before an actual dday; I knew something was amiss and I knew when he started actually lying. My dad and I both seem to have excellent BS detectors. A gift and a curse, I suppose.
> 
> I'm not surprised waywards lie, of course that's SOP. I'm just surprised that so many other people believe the lies they tell. Some people are good liars but it seems like a lot of WS's spin tales and excuses that truly push the envelope of sounding even remotely truthful. Especially to an extended family member who wouldn't have nearly the emotional investment a spouse would.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think that sometimes the family members *choose * to believe the lies the WS tells them because the truth is too hurtful. In doing so they are protecting the love that they have for their family member. Believing that I was the wicked witch of the west as my spouse made me out to be at this time was easier to digest than the truth that their loved one was:

Cheating on me when pregnant
Addicted to porn (and further, gross porn)
Lying to EVERYONE, including himself
Willfully hurting me and the kids

It was easier to swallow that their son/brother was cheating on me if they could convince themselves that I was also an adulteress and had been for years and that I had physically and verbally abused him (none of this was true). Otherwise, their son/brother was a bastard. While his actions would have been wrong, it would have been more palatable if I had been worse and somehow "deserving" of it. 

So not only do I have a reconciliation to contend with, with my spouse, I am reconciling and forgiving his family as well. I went almost two years not wanting to speak to them as a result of how I was treated when their son/brother was doing what he did. 

I can tell you, in some ways it's been more trying emotionally dealing with his family than it has been dealing with my WS. My MIL had the hardest time accepting the ugly truth but is coming around. Three fights have now been had with them and while it's been hard, they are needed to clear the air. I can't pretend and be fake as if they didn't all throw me under the bus. I wish I could but that's not in me to do. It's been difficult but they are making headway and I am slowly forgiving them. I would completely understand people that can't do the same. If we didn't have kids together and I had my own family out here, reconciling with them wouldn't be on my radar.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)




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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

I only know when I heard my WS trash talking about me it hurt like he!!. I can't say what I feel about them doing that. If I said it on here it would only show a line of Asterisk symbols *******************************


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

My sister is a pathological liar and I feel terribly sorry for her although it's annoying. 

She has to lie about everything, even small things that don't matter. I go along with it for the most part because we don't have much contact. 

I see my parents believing her far-fetched lies and I know they are just putting up a mental block and truly believe her because if they faced reality, they would have to realize how truly messed up their own daughter was. Her lies don't really hurt anyone but herself because they are trivial lies for the most part. It's very interesting how the brain works. In my sister's case, no one benefits from the lies, really.

Now when my D-Day hit, I found one email of my husband telling some woman, for health reasons, I could not have sex because it was painful. ?? That was untrue. 

And I saw a Facebook message to one of his old girlfriends putting me down as a not so stellar wife. I was pretty mad about that one because I bailed our family out of so many of his mistakes it's not even funny. He took HIS faults and failures and made them MINE. 

I was hoping he would someday end up with this old girlfriend and she could find out for herself what my husband was all about. 

People's true colors always come out if you're around them long enough. 

I always believe what people tell me because I don't care. Unless they want to get close to me, then, time will tell if they are trustworthy or not. 

People lie. Some lies don't matter and other lies ruin lives forever.


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## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

Rugs said:


> She has to lie about everything, even small things that don't matter.


I knew a guy like this when I was in the Marines, we grabbed some Burger King for lunch and his wife came by the unit when we were walking up and he said we just came from McDonalds and looked at me to corroborate it with this odd panicked look. It was so flipping odd, like wtf? Why lie about the fast food restaurant we went to? 

He lied about everything, all the time I couldn't handle even small conversations with him, he was completely insane.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

He probably was insane. Maybe a memory deficiency he was trying to cover up.


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

The most ridiculous is when you have absolute, indisputable evidence and they still lie. They're like those people who are caught on video stealing one of those police bait cars and when caught, they're adamant it wasn't them.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

nickgtg said:


> The most ridiculous is when you have absolute, indisputable evidence and they still lie. They're like those people who are caught on video stealing one of those police bait cars and when caught, they're adamant it wasn't them.


I had pictures and a video. She said I just photoshopped the picts. Her family still buys that line.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

What the cheater is doing, comes right from the cheaters playbook----they, the cheaters call it JUSTIFICATION


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

TTR, if someone who you loved and respected, and trusted 100%, and who you had known for a long time, who had never, _ever_ (to your certain knowledge) told you a lie, then went ahead and told you a lie... *

how would you even know or suspect they were telling you a lie?*:scratchhead:


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Like there would be anything to gain from photoshopping something like that! Photoshop your heart being ripped out! Give me a break. Nobody wants it to be true.


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## Turin74 (Apr 11, 2014)

Yes, but the alternative (for ws) is too ugly to accept - I'm talking about post affair lies and badmouthing /justification lies. 

It's like protective trigger on the brain of ws - the facts are so ugly they cannot be true. 'I'm not that bad, am I? It MUST be somebody else fault'. 



clipclop2 said:


> Like there would be anything to gain from photoshopping something like that! Photoshop your heart being ripped out! Give me a break. Nobody wants it to be true.


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> TTR, if someone who you loved and respected, and trusted 100%, and who you had known for a long time, who had never, _ever_ (to your certain knowledge) told you a lie, then went ahead and told you a lie... *
> 
> how would you even know or suspect they were telling you a lie?*:scratchhead:


Some of the whoppers told during the throes of an affair would seemingly be pretty tough to believe, regardless of the relationship prior to. I trusted my WS 100% prior to the affair and knew without a doubt, and without initial proof, I was being lied to. My FIL knew his son/my WS was lying about me/our marriage and he trusted his son as well.


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## nickgtg (Jan 11, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> TTR, if someone who you loved and respected, and trusted 100%, and who you had known for a long time, who had never, _ever_ (to your certain knowledge) told you a lie, then went ahead and told you a lie... *
> 
> how would you even know or suspect they were telling you a lie?*:scratchhead:


This is what makes it so difficult. I think most know when they're being lied to, but it's because of that love and trust that you tell yourself to give them the benefit of the doubt when you know in your gut they're lying.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

nickgtg said:


> This is what makes it so difficult. I think most know when they're being lied to, but it's because of that love and trust that you tell yourself to give them the benefit of the doubt when you know in your gut they're lying.


Love can cover it up, but so can being intoxicated on weed or alcohol or other drugs. Some aren't intune enough with themselves not to realize the lie.

And think about people who get swindled in business, sometimes they were just that good at it.

However in a relationship, over time you will realize something is not right, and you will have stress in you, then an interaction with your partner, will raise the stress and so on and so on, and you can accept that you know that something must not be right.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Parents are the most likely to believe their child. Not to do so would mean they have to admit to themselves their child is not quite as wonderful as they prefer to believe. And then they might have to worry about the parenting job they did. Best not to think about that. So they choose to believe them. Perception is reality for most. The truth doesn't enter into it.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Openminded said:


> Parents are the most likely to believe their child. Not to do so would mean they have to admit to themselves their child is not quite as wonderful as they prefer to believe. And then they might have to worry about the parenting job they did. Best not to think about that. So they choose to believe them. Perception is reality for most. The truth doesn't enter into it.


This is my MIL, without a doubt. 

My FIL, not at all. He was one of the first people to tell WS he could lie to himself but he wasn't going to do it to him. I don't think it was so much in defense of me but my FIL knew WS was bullsh*tting them or trying to. FIL told WS that all marital problems have two (or three!) sides to the story and perhaps he 
ought to man up and work on solving the problems or divorce me. 

Maybe I'm not very "normal" because I can't think of anyone I'm inclined to believe to a fault, not even my kids. They aren't habitual liars but they have tried lying to me on occasion and I can see right through it 9 times out of 10. I'm the first one to call them out on it the few times it's happened. I have no illusions that their parenting job was done perfectly by either of us nor do I blame myself automatically if they do try doing something stupid. 

Idk, perhaps I'm just cynical. I still remember knowing when WS's affair was on the brink of going physical and he got home late from work on a Friday I was not working. He said he was late because he was at the store checking out bait and tackle when the man NEVER fishes anymore, hasn't in years.... 10 or more. He also is a spender and can't even walk out of Wal-mart to this day without buying something, even if it's just soda. He came home with nothing, late, and tried to claim he wanted to get back into fishing. Although it wasn't a real wild or outlandish story, I knew he was full of it as soon as he started talking.  He still has never gone fishing in the few years since dday, has never even spoke of it. 

Anyhow, not too long later it was confirmed by the xOBS that late home on Friday was due to my WS "fishing" for his now xAP, no real bait and tackle involved. Well, at least not the "bait" for sale in the fishing and hunting section of most major retailers 

For the record, I don't go around thinking I'm being lied to by everyone regularly but somehow with most people I do seem to know when they're lying to me, at least about major things. I've never been one to just believe because I'm close to the person, a relative or whatever.


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

what i want to know..for us BS is what to do about being lied about. 

its one thing that a M does not work out however to lie due to an affair and trash the other spouse is to ruin the reputation..ruin the relationships they spent years building. etc. 

how to deal with that is still unknown to me. i lost several relationships in response to my husbands trash talking me and people believed him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Depends on whether some people are worth trying to keep as friends.

I think after a few incidences I would go scorched Earth on the X. I would expose them in a devastating manner if they felt they could not leave me without trashing me.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

notadoormat said:


> what i want to know..for us BS is what to do about being lied about.
> 
> its one thing that a M does not work out however to lie due to an affair and trash the other spouse is to ruin the reputation..ruin the relationships they spent years building. etc.
> 
> ...


If my WS and I were to divorce and he trash talked me throughout that process, I suspect I would provide his parents and sister with more of the damning evidence of his affair that was not provided to them when he admitted to his family he cheated. That is, if I cared enough at that time to get revenge, etc. Admittedly, I do have a slight mean streak  which I usually keep under control unless really angry, and fortunately I don't get that angry very often. 

OTOH, I don't think I'd care much for what my in-laws would think of me should a divorce happen. I really like my FIL but wouldn't expect a continued relationship with him in that scenario. I'm the mother of three of their grand kids and as long as they didn't say crappy and untrue things about me to my kids, I'd probably let any WS trash talking go. My MIL has never been my biggest fan anyway, and vice versa, so I'd probably just be thrilled to never deal with her again. 

But in the case of mutual friends, that can be tough. It seems in many cases friends seem to take sides in a divorce and it's truly unfair if any of that is due to lies and trash talking by a STBX. On the flip side, I guess you DO learn who your real friends are if they are only going to listen to one side of the story and end the friendship with you. I'd try to look at the loss of friendship as a good thing with people like that.

I don't know what can be done about ruined reputations, honestly. Waiting for karma to come back around and bite the liar on the azz, so to speak, often seems to take way too long or seemingly never happens. 

Overall, you are better off without those kind of friends in your life (IMO) but that's not much of a comforting thought all the time either, especially when someone purposely set out to do this to another person .


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

i was left with no friends locally. i virtually stayed home for two years alone. went out twice. one with best friend out of town and one w sons friends mom. 

some because of what he said
some because people seem to avoid couples going thru drama like plague
and i found out this year apparently his circle of friends are drug addicts like him.

karma hit this year. he got caught. lost his job. people found out true him and lies. 

now we both dont have friends locally. i have a couple new ones finally but due to busy lives only talk to catch up once in a while.

funny thing about karma. we wish for it. but when it hit for my H ..i felt like ooh karma..but in reality. no one wins. it just stops crap choices sometimes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

nickgtg said:


> The most ridiculous is when you have absolute, indisputable evidence and they still lie. They're like those people who are caught on video stealing one of those police bait cars and when caught, they're adamant it wasn't them.


Reminds me of this classic by the Murph.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_f6qFBQD9U


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My ex span a tale about mental instability, abuse, and me hating her family as an excuse to leave... 

Not to me, of course. She just left. That's the story she tried to spin for a few weeks to others.

When people questioned my mental instability by simply asking "if what you say is true why is he not a train wreck" she would stop talking to them and cut them out of her life.

When people questioned the abuse by saying things like "I've seen you yell at him and slap him and he didn't respond abusively" she would stop talking to them and cut them out of her life.

When her family questioned me hating her family by saying "Why would he always hang out with us and have a good time even for weeks on end" she would stop talking to them and cut them out of her life.

Then our best friends questioned her sudden appearance of her boyfriend a few weeks into our separation when it was obvious that they had been together for some time, she stopped talking to them and cut them out of her life.

So she basically ended up only spinning tales to her mom and dad, who I think really wanted to believe her. I mean, who wants to believe your darling daughter is abusive and adulterous?

See, we all have coping mechanisms. For her, her coping mechanism was that she was cheating on me because it was my fault. Even thought it wasn't. Because she was cheating, there must be something wrong with me. So she'd pick on every flaw and magnify it.

As an excuse. Why it was OK for her to be doing what she was doing. Otherwise, she'd go crazy with guilt or remorse, and that just wasn't going to happen.

So eventually she ended up with zero friends and almost no family talking to her. From what I hear it took the better part of a decade to repair the damage.

And after a long string of failed relationships, no marriage, no kids, and living single and alone... while I retained my friends, dated like crazy, settled down, got married, had kids, and have a great career it's obvious where the truth is.

There's no way to convince someone of the truth they don't want to see.

You can only live your truth and let the chips fall where they may.

The best revenge -- and the best path to demonstrate your truth is simply to live well.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

marduk said:


> My ex span a tale about mental instability, abuse, and me hating her family as an excuse to leave...
> 
> Not to me, of course. She just left. That's the story she tried to spin for a few weeks to others.
> 
> ...


This is very common, they play the sympathy card and once people begin to realize what is really going on the WS will end long term friendships...everything to maintain the illusion and not face reality. 

My stbx has done the same thing, she has severed every friendship, even her childhood friends she has known for 30+ years. she makes new friends, tell the horrible tales, she gets the attention she wants. People start to see the truth and the new friendship ends. Its a rinse and repeat cycle with waywards it seems. At the end all they have is self-made drama and they cant let it go.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Depends on whether some people are worth trying to keep as friends.
> 
> I think after a few incidences I would go scorched Earth on the X. I would expose them in a devastating manner if they felt they could not leave me without trashing me.


You wouldn't know you were trashed until it was too late. Then when you start trying to defend yourself it will already be manipulated so it looks like your telling lies.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

treyvion said:


> You wouldn't know you were trashed until it was too late. Then when you start trying to defend yourself it will already be manipulated so it looks like your telling lies.


This is true and the whole idea p*sses me off. 

I remember before WS admitted to his parents he'd cheated, his mother called me up to confront me on what a horrible ogre I was being to her son, based on the trash talking WS had been doing about me to his mom and sister (his dad refused to listen). 

When I responded to her, I started off by saying "there's two sides to every story...." Well, she wouldn't even let me finish before blasting me with, "there might be two sides to every story but my son's side is the only one I care about."

I guess that means I didn't matter enough, in her opinion, to even be considered a liar - nothing I would have said would have mattered to her anyway. 

I have only seen my MIL 4 or 5 times since dday in 2012, despite the fact they live fairly close by. This year, it's been since January since I saw her last. I don't miss her:yay:.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Trash talking is otherwise known as monsterisation.

See, your wife/husband/boy/girlfriend would never cheat on you, because you are such a lovely person.

But they really, _really_ want to make the beast with two backs or get at it like a rat up a pump with that new man/woman in accounts, so what do they do?

They convince themselves you are a bad, evil person. Then they trash talk/monsterise you to their lover.

Well, in reality would a person really want to have an affair with someone who kept praising their husband/wife up to the high heavens? Nah! 'course not! So it's happy trash talking, the slippery slope to affairsville.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TryingToRecover said:


> This is true and the whole idea p*sses me off.
> 
> I remember before WS admitted to his parents he'd cheated, his mother called me up to confront me on what a horrible ogre I was being to her son, based on the trash talking WS had been doing about me to his mom and sister (his dad refused to listen).
> 
> ...


In some families they will defend their own family member even if they are obiously wrong. Other families will do a subset of this, is that they will agree on a story and that's the truth so their family member can spin the story about the "sky is currently purple" and they will enact it.

So you see you can't count on the moral highpoint to be maintained at all, nor you can't count on being honest and forthright keeping you out of trouble.

LOL. So the cheated, get to pay for being cheated on and pay as if they have cheated themselves.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

treyvion said:


> *In some families they will defend their own family member even if they are obiously wrong. * Other families will do a subset of this, is that they will agree on a story and that's the truth so their family member can spin the story about the "sky is currently purple" and they will enact it.
> 
> So you see you can't count on the moral highpoint to be maintained at all, nor you can't count on being honest and forthright keeping you out of trouble.
> 
> ...


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TryingToRecover said:


> treyvion said:
> 
> 
> > *In some families they will defend their own family member even if they are obiously wrong. * Other families will do a subset of this, is that they will agree on a story and that's the truth so their family member can spin the story about the "sky is currently purple" and they will enact it.
> ...


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## notadoormat (Jun 1, 2013)

not that it matters in my case. but for those who have successfully R or in the process..did the ws who trash-talked the Bs go back and humbly admit the lies they told? i have never seen it a requirement that they do in an R.


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## X-B (Jul 25, 2013)

notadoormat said:


> not that it matters in my case. but for those who have successfully R or in the process..did the ws who trash-talked the Bs go back and humbly admit the lies they told? i have never seen it a requirement that they do in an R.


 My wayward denied it even after her hearing herself on a recording. She thinks we are R'ing but I am going to bust her bubble after a certain date.


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