# Asset protection ?'s while divorcing.



## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

My wife is going to be delivered the certified 'Complaint in Divorce' letter soon, in the next few day. This will begin the 90 day divorce wait period after which we are divorced or if she refuses, we wait one year and then the marriage ends. 

I'm a real estate agent operating under my own LLC. My commissions go through my broker, then into my LLC's business bank account (wife doesn't know what bank it's with, or really anything about it) then I have a payroll company pay me a salary out of my business bank account into my personal bank account that my wife and I shared. 

My wife and I both bank with USAA, she has an account that her monthly income ($900 per month) goes into, and I have mine that she was part of until today, all household bill, utilities, healthcare gets paid from my account that she was on until today. I pay everything, always have. 

I pay myself a salary of $50,000 from my business account. I've earned roughly $130,000 in commissions in this fiscal year. I have no degree, just hustle everyday. She earns $10 per hr, part time, or $900 per month. She has a masters degree in Instructional Leadership that I paid for by transferring all of my GI Bill benefits to her ($75,000 degree, earning potential of at least $50,000 per year). We have no kids, been married 6 years.

My questions:

Is it alright for me to take my wife off the shared account that all of my pay goes into and which I pay all the bills from? I am paying her living expenses through this separation, she refuses to leave the house. 

I have $30,000 in my business bank account. How can I shield or hide this money in case she retains an attorney and seeks discovery and claims it as a marital asset? Should I withdraw it all and say I spent it frivolously? Put it into my brother bank account for a few months? We live in PA. I became a realtor and started the business while married. She is not a member of the LLC. 

All the best


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I wouldn't touch that account in the middle of any proceedings... create a new direct deposit and have money moved from that new account into the shared.

Never complicate the financial side of parting...

I understand the desire to hide... but your state will determine what is hidden, or not.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Go see a lawyer. 

IMO hiding marital assets is not only unethical it probably is illegal. 

I am more interested in why you want to divorce. Does she want to? What is the reason?


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Go see a lawyer.
> 
> IMO hiding marital assets is not only unethical it probably is illegal.
> 
> I am more interested in why you want to divorce. Does she want to? What is the reason?


Here is a the link to the thread referencing the reasons for divorce. I welcome all opinions. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/357314-need-advice-before-divorcing.html


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Ugh. 

You are already going on dates. You have checked out. But I don't think you are a victim in this case. 

At least have the courtesy to send the divorce papers and officially separate before you date again.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I've spent alot of time with lawyers recently about this very issue and I think I can tell you what they'll say about this. All the assets you mention are part of the marital estate unless in your business account some of the funds belong to clients. Any commissions you earn are going to be half her's. If you try hiding any of this money, you can get into alot of trouble. Don't do it. If she takes anything illegally after you file, you can go after her then. It's alot better than hiding anything. Her attorney will do a search of your assets and will know soon enough if you transferred funds elsewhere.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

jb02157 said:


> I've spent alot of time with lawyers recently about this very issue and I think I can tell you what they'll say about this. All the assets you mention are part of the marital estate unless in your business account some of the funds belong to clients. Any commissions you earn are going to be half her's. If you try hiding any of this money, you can get into alot of trouble. Don't do it. If she takes anything illegally after you file, you can go after her then. It's alot better than hiding anything. Her attorney will do a search of your assets and will know soon enough if you transferred funds elsewhere.


The only things I know of that could change this are:

1) If the company was owned 100% by you before you married, and your state considers premarital assets as separate as long as you haven't commingled them with marital assets.
2) You have a prenup that says the LLC is 100% yours or otherwise denotes how business is handled.
3) The Operating Agreement lays out that she is not an owner, and your state law permits this.

If any of these is the case, you would need to consult an attorney before moving any funds.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You should have a good attorney. Pay your $5,000 retainer and get real advice.

If it was me, I'd ask my attorney "What if I cash out $30,000 and go to Vegas and blow it on strippers and craps?" Of course you'd just hide it under your mom's mattress. Right now, it's both your money. You both could spend it all and not really a damn thing either of you could do. But the minute you file, you can't touch it. 

A co worker of mine's ex wife took $15,000 out of their joint account and left him with $20 one random morning. She left him for another guy and he never got it back.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Ugh.
> 
> You are already going on dates. You have checked out. But I don't think you are a victim in this case.
> 
> At least have the courtesy to send the divorce papers and officially separate before you date again.


I regards to dating, this is my stance, tell me if I'm way off base. We actually separated 5 weeks ago. She kicked me out, I went to live with a buddy, I set up a meeting with a divorce attorney. She had the suicide threat, I came back to the house for 3 days, then she moved out due to that falling apart... separated again. 

I went on Match.com basically to see what my prospects would be as a single 37 year old man, wanting to find a partner with no kids. I live in a city so I was pleased to find that I would have no problems at all. While on Match I started a convo with this attorney woman, she wanted a date, I didn't see any harm in going to dinner with an attorney that knew I was separated. PA does not have a legal requirement for 'separated' whatever the couple decides as the date of the separation is what goes. 

So we had dinner and a great conversation for 3 hours, I gave her a quick kiss at the end of the night and went home. Being that I have been in outside sales type roles my entire adult life, meeting people and talking for hours is natural for me, although the kiss was new and given because of the context and we both connected. 

When my wife moved back into the house 3 days ago. She somehow got into my laptop and saw a transcript of the texts I had with this attorney the night of our date... that I would see her when she walked in the restaurant... and a text the following day referencing the kiss and that I did it because 'I felt we connected and that you deserved a smooch'. The attorney felt the same and asked for a second date. 

My wife took a picture of the transcripts and sent it to her sisters and said it was cheating. I said that we were separated for 4 weeks at that point and it was basically just a dinner with another person and a little kiss from a man separated and divorcing. Adultery is defined as sexual intercourse, I made no transgressions that could be argued as marital misconduct ever. 

She wanted me out of the house 5 weeks ago, she threatened suicide and made me doubt her ability to be ready for kids.. this all solidified my belief in divorcing her. 

Am I wrong for taking a woman out on a date? It's not like I went out the strip club and picked up a prostitute, and then had sex with that prostitute. She is an private school educated attorney!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Discovery is part of the divorce process. You must provide a detailed list of all your assets. However, this does not mean she gets access to those assets during the divorce process. There is nothing wrong with you putting your assets in accounts only under your name. And as long as you are continuing to pay the living expenses as you were before, and she is keeping her total income as she was before, there is no appearance of you starving her out.

What I would do is create a new account under just your name for your paychecks. Then transfer as much as is required to the joint account to pay the family bills. Due to the traceability it is obvious you aren't hiding your salary or commissions from her, you are just keeping her from taking them.

As to your business accounts, your attorney can advise you on those. In my state, you would have to provide an accounting of the business as part of the financial disclosure. This would mean all cash and bank accounts, plus other assets and liabilities. Net valuation of the business would be then probably argued by the other spouse, who would want 50% of some big number. Meanwhile, the business owner would be arguing for a lower valuation and arguing the spouse had no right to any of it.

Nevertheless, you can't hide the cash. You can keep her name off of the accounts so she can't get to it, but you can't hide it.

The best bet is to give your atty full details, and to be sure to follow the laws about disclosure. If your atty thinks you have legal reason to not give her half the business value, yeah go fight that battle.

Getting tricky with hiding cash will only cause you grief in court.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

37 yo guy, no kids, business owner, no problem getting dates. You are prime. 

Your wife didn't cheat. You decided to end years of drama. Treat her fairly in the divorce. You once loved her and she was there for you at your time of need. 

Try not to let her know about your dating. You comment about dating the coworker was about as low as you can go. 

If she is not properly medicated, and after the divorce papers she goes to doctor, gets meds, and takes them would you consider reconciliation?

BTW my wife smokes, was drinking, watched TV and had depression. We got through it, including a massive health issue.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

blueinbr said:


> 37 yo guy, no kids, business owner, no problem getting dates. You are prime.
> 
> Your wife didn't cheat. You decided to end years of drama. Treat her fairly in the divorce. You once loved her and she was there for you at your time of need.
> 
> ...


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> 37 yo guy, no kids, business owner, no problem getting dates. You are prime.
> 
> Your wife didn't cheat. You decided to end years of drama. Treat her fairly in the divorce. You once loved her and she was there for you at your time of need.
> 
> ...


It is possible that we could reconcile IF she quit smoking, drastically lowered or quit drinking and got counseling for her inability to regulate daily life stress in effective ways. She would have to show proof of change over several months. It would mean getting re-married after the divorce most likely.

I believe she needs to hit bottom. I'm willing to escort her to that point if it helps in the long run, even if I'm not part of the long run. Like basic training.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

53791263 said:


> My wife is going to be delivered the certified 'Complaint in Divorce' letter soon, in the next few day. This will begin the 90 day divorce wait period after which we are divorced or if she refuses, we wait one year and then the marriage ends.
> 
> I'm a real estate agent operating under my own LLC. My commissions go through my broker, then into my LLC's business bank account (wife doesn't know what bank it's with, or really anything about it) then I have a payroll company pay me a salary out of my business bank account into my personal bank account that my wife and I shared.
> 
> ...


Hide money?
Are you insane?
Just ask the idiot that I divorced 3 months ago how things went for him after he hid money from me.

Honesty is the best policy!


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

VeryHurt said:


> Hide money?
> 
> Are you insane?
> 
> ...




OP, listen to VH. She is the most qualified person on TAM concerning this topic.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> OP, listen to VH. She is the most qualified person on TAM concerning this topic.


Why thank you Blu .............it's almost like being nominated for an 
Academy Award !! :wink2:


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

VeryHurt said:


> Hide money?
> Are you insane?
> Just ask the idiot that I divorced 3 months ago how things went for him after he hid money from me.
> 
> Honesty is the best policy!


I spoke with my attorney today. He is having her served tomorrow and told me that the commission checks in my business account won't be divided an marital assets. No hiding necessary!


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

53791263 said:


> My wife is going to be delivered the certified 'Complaint in Divorce' letter soon, in the next few day. This will begin the 90 day divorce wait period after which we are divorced or if she refuses, we wait one year and then the marriage ends.
> 
> I'm a real estate agent operating under my own LLC. My commissions go through my broker, then into my LLC's business bank account (wife doesn't know what bank it's with, or really anything about it) then I have a payroll company pay me a salary out of my business bank account into my personal bank account that my wife and I shared.
> 
> ...



This public place is not the best place to come for you to get instructions on how to break the law and defraud your wife.

She is entitled to half of the commonly held assets (unless extreme circumstances apply) that includes a 50% share in your company, and 50% of any assets (and liabilities) it holds.
How do you protect "your" assets? You put them in your pre-nup which she signs acknowledging it.

If she has been depending on you for financial support then you owe her a stripend so she can support herself, at least until someone takes up that chore in your place.

Oh btw... if the judge finds you've been lying or hiding assets they will often compensate by awarding more to her for your deception , even up to 100%. Chose your course wisely.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

spotthedeaddog said:


> This public place is not the best place to come for you to get instructions on how to break the law and defraud your wife.
> 
> She is entitled to half of the commonly held assets (unless extreme circumstances apply) that includes a 50% share in your company, and 50% of any assets (and liabilities) it holds.
> How do you protect "your" assets? You put them in your pre-nup which she signs acknowledging it.
> ...


Yeah, thanks. I spoke to my attorney, he's says my business bank account will not be considered a marital asset. I have and will continue to pay $2,500 - $3,000 in household expenses without any help from her or the $75,000 masters degree that I paid for her to obtain. She can continue to live in this home and below her abilities until the divorce is done, then she can put her big girl pants on and join the working world, because I will be listing and selling this home ASAP. No more working part-time for $10 an hour and spending the rest of your days smoking, drinking and watching netflix when you have bills to pay.

She'll no longer simply exist to smoke a pack a day, drink a bottle a half or wine a day and watch netflix and walk the dog... she'll probably be forced to lead a better life for once. It will be good for her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

53791263 said:


> I regards to dating, this is my stance, tell me if I'm way off base. We actually separated 5 weeks ago. She kicked me out, I went to live with a buddy, I set up a meeting with a divorce attorney. She had the suicide threat, I came back to the house for 3 days, then she moved out due to that falling apart... separated again.
> 
> I went on Match.com basically to see what my prospects would be as a single 37 year old man, wanting to find a partner with no kids.
> .
> ...


I'm separated since Jan 1, living in my own place now for a few months. We're just waiting for the judge to sign the decree.

My opinion is you should hold off on any dating for a while, like maybe 6 months after the divorce is signed. You need some time to get your head back on straight, and to get settled into your new routines. This date you had sort of looks like testing your options, as if maybe you wouldn't divorce if your dating prospects were not good. Ok, I understand that. But now that you know you have plenty of options, you should watch out for yourself here. That means don't do anything which could torpedo a smooth divorce, and then don't rush into anything which could hamper your successful detachment and recovery from the marriage.

At first you may be looking pretty hard to find female companionship. But there is the risk of a rebound romance, which you really want to stay away from.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Thor said:


> I'm separated since Jan 1, living in my own place now for a few months. We're just waiting for the judge to sign the decree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Granted I know Nothing about divorce and post divorce life, but if a guy is initiating divorce without infidelity cause, why wait to date? If i was divorcing i think I couldn't wait to date and find a better partner. And have sex. 

I read here to wait a year or two. I don't get it.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

blueinbr said:


> Granted I know Nothing about divorce and post divorce life, but if a guy is initiating divorce without infidelity cause, why wait to date? If i was divorcing i think I couldn't wait to date and find a better partner. And have sex.
> 
> I read here to wait a year or two. I don't get it.


I don't buy into the year time frame, nor the oft quoted one month per year of marriage rule. I'd be out of action for 3 years!

But my experience after moving into my own place was initially that I wanted a woman. Which seemed dangerous to me. Even though things have been winding down for years, and we were financially separated last January, there is still an adjustment period to leaving a relationship.

Admittedly I was hoping a particular female acquaintance's flirting would lead to a FWB or ONS when I first moved in here. It didn't develop. I'm not opposed to a casual sex relationship if someone is newly separated or divorced, but it is playing with fire. Rebounds are a real threat, even more so if one dates.

For me anyhow, I think there is great value in establishing my own space and life without a woman for a few months. Maybe 6 months. If a ONS opportunity arises I might jump at it with the full intention of it being nothing else. If one can keep it in that realm it could be a healthy assist to breaking the old bonds and establishing a new start.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

I separated 1/10/16 and was dating a couple girls a week later. Ended up serious with one that I've been dating since 2/6/16 and looking at buying her a diamond soon. My divorce was final 6/10/16. Life is short, live it up.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you were to make the $30K disappear can claim that you spent it, she could claim that you wasted martial assets. You would need to still give her 50%, or $15K.

Why should she move out of the house? It's her legal residence. She has as much right to live there as you do.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

53791263 said:


> I went on Match.com basically to see what my prospects would be as a single 37 year old man, wanting to find a partner with no kids.


This quote and others on this thread talking about "why wait?" and going directly into another relationship are concerning. If nothing else you should be asking yourselves "why can I not tolerate being alone?" because this type of behavior is not mentally healthy. It will lead you into repeating past mistakes.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Red Sonja said:


> This quote and others on this thread talking about "why wait?" and going directly into another relationship are concerning. If nothing else you should be asking yourselves "why can I not tolerate being alone?" because this type of behavior is not mentally healthy. It will lead you into repeating past mistakes.


I agree when we're talking about a marriage. Even more so a marriage which has lasted a decade or more. It takes time to mourn the loss of the marriage and to really disconnect emotionally from the ex. We do change when in a relationship. It takes time to come back to being ourselves when we leave the relationship.

Speaking for myself, I went from really desiring another relationship at first (even just a sexual relationship), to feeling liberated and not wanting any entanglements. To each his own, but imo it is important to have some time without an emotional relationship after divorcing.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Thor said:


> I don't buy into the year time frame, nor the oft quoted one month per year of marriage rule. I'd be out of action for 3 years!
> 
> But my experience after moving into my own place was initially that I wanted a woman. Which seemed dangerous to me. Even though things have been winding down for years, and we were financially separated last January, there is still an adjustment period to leaving a relationship.
> 
> ...


I've mourned this relationship over 2-3 years. 4 weeks ago I feel that I cleared the 5 stages of grief and am at piece. 

I'm not really even after sex or a sexual relationship. What I need and crave is female companionship. I feel that I'm in a catch 22 because the female companionship will lead to sex, and a rebound, from what I've read. I'm hesitant to date because I'm scared I'll find an amazing person and ruin it even though I need the company right now. 

Last night my attorney friend took me out to a new restaurant. I told her I liked her but that I want to take it slow. She thanked me and appreciated it. No kiss at the end of that date. Just one of those awkward, 'see ya later's'. Hope I didn't scare her off. 

I need to settle down and get my business back on all 8 cylinders, become a gym rat... maybe a Tinder ONS? Then I can get serious about dating.


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## MSalmoides (Sep 29, 2016)

...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Your attorney is an idiot, or you heard what you wanted to hear.

While the account might be separate property because it was your's before the marriage everything you earn while married can be considered, regardless of which account it went into. The increased value of any asset during the marriage is marital property, even if the underlying asset is separate. 

You will have support obligations because of the disparity in income, unless she's not competent and waives support.

Be fair, not greedy and you are far more likely not to get dragged back into court.


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## 53791263 (Nov 14, 2016)

Pluto2 said:


> Your attorney is an idiot, or you heard what you wanted to hear.
> 
> While the account might be separate property because it was your's before the marriage everything you earn while married can be considered, regardless of which account it went into. The increased value of any asset during the marriage is marital property, even if the underlying asset is separate.
> 
> ...


This attorney specializes in divorce and family law, he's not a DUI or real estate attorney, or a journeyman looking to find his way. I guess I'll find out and give an update.


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