# Getting and Staying Fit



## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Upon the suggestion of a fellow TAMer I'm starting a thread for posters to share their stories that relate to health and fitness. 

Whether you went through a transformation of your body that also affected your personal life and relationships, or you're interested in hearing how other posters maintain their health and fitness (or possibly even how others motivate their significant other to maintain his/her health and fitness), or maybe you just want some tips on that half marathon that's coming up that you're training for...this is as good a spot as any to collect that knowledge and experiences.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Since I started this thread I'll go first.

Cliff's Notes of my story... Three years ago I weighed 303 lbs. Everything in my life seemed to suck at the time, and my answer was to drown my sorrows in food. After a health scare at 29, the doctor gave me the wake-up call I needed. Without hesitation I bought an elliptical, I started a food journal, and with a determined mind the pounds fell off more quickly than I could have ever imagined. Funny how motivated you become when someone tells you you're going to die.

Standing here today (at 5'7") I weigh 135 lbs. I eat clean (most of the time - we all need a cheat now and then), I lift weights, and I enjoy running. 

Another poster asked about my supplements, and although there's a plethora of different combinations you could take depending on your goals, this is what I supplement with:

Daily multivitamin
Fish Oil
CLA
Whey protein
Casein protein

So that's the abridged version of my story. Would love to hear from others.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

When I married my wife I was in the best shape of my life. But after she became pregnant I was out rock climbing and got involved in rescuing another climber who fell and was critically injured. When my wife learned of this she asked me not to go climbing until after the baby was born. However that small break turned into years. I focused on the routine of life instead of my health and passion. In a few years I was well over 300lbs and my doctor was recommending gastric bypass surgery. 

My weight and inactivity interfered with everything. I couldnt go on a rollercoaster ride with my son because I was too big for them to close the lap bar. Sex was no longer fulfilling for my wife. I was always tired and had back problem, heart issues and other things. 

What got me out of it was a bit of luck plus determination. I had a gall bladder issue which caused extreme pain when I ate fat. By the time I was diagnosed I had lost twenty pounds. I decided to keep going. This was during the tech bubble bursting and I worked for a subsidiary of WorldCom which declared bankruptcy. My VP and manager over my boss gave me a visit one day during the big layoff (which caused me to think I was getting axed) and said there are going to be a lot of "actions" today why don't you take a walk at a park and come back after lunch. Well I found a park near the office which had nice woods and went for a long walk. I noticed that the walking reduced my hunger and was a great stress reducer. So I started walking every day for about an hour. 

I lost over 135lbs by eating less (1600-1800cal) and walking. My back problems disappeared along with the heart issue and tiredness. My wife became attracted to me again and sex improved. Eventually walking was not enough and I started jogging which led to trail running. I became fit enough to climb again.

What I didn't know at the time is that low intensity aerobics (65-75% max heart rate) encourages the build up of fat burning mitochondria which acelarated my weight loss from fat. Walking for me when I was 250+ was the best exercise because it put me in that zone. 

Now I try to do aerobic exercise 3-4 days per week and I climb hard for 1-3 times per week. I also do some basic strength exercises like pulliups, pushups, situps and other body motion exercises. Pilates and yoga are excelent for this. I never use weights because I don't want to build up needless bulk. I am now in my 50s and my doctor says my heart is like 30 year old heart. 

This summer our family is doing an 84 mile backpacking trip. So my wife and I have added long distance walk/hikes to the routine. 

It's been a hard journey and I have back slid twice. But each time it has been easier to regain it. Last fall my parents where hospitalized and i needed to travel home to deal with their them, their house and pets. During that time I had no exercise because I was going back and forth between hospital rooms. I gained twenty pounds last fall and I have taken half of it away. The lesson for me and my wife is that from now on no matter how busy we are we will MAKE time to exercise no matter what.

My getting back into shape and climbing again helped me and my marriage more than anything else. Trust me with the walking.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

That is amazing to hear! Congrats on your weight loss and maintenance! The positive affirmation we receive during weight loss is motivating, but I'd argue that maintenance takes more work mentally than losing the weight. 

I too had to have my gallbladder removed, so I can empathize with that pain. 

Keep up the good work - it's amazing what a difference the extra weight can make in every facet of your life.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

SoVeryLost,

Amazing achievement.
When you were shedding weight at what point did you start gain irreversible momentum?

Were you worried that after losing the weight you would still be dissatisfied with your appearance?


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> SoVeryLost,
> ?
> 
> Were you worried that after losing the weight you would still be dissatisfied with your appearance?


.?????

There's two things in life you'll probably never ever say on your deathbed...

1. I think I was in too good of shape.

2. I think my spouse and I fu(ked too much.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

alphaomega said:


> .?????
> 
> There's two things in life you'll probably never ever say on your deathbed...
> 
> ...


Also, so they say,

I wish I had spent more time at the office.

Regarding health, my epiphany occurred when I was forty. I hurt my knee playing tennis. I was sent to a physiotherapist who said the reason that I had suffered the injury was because I had allowed my quadriceps to lose strength.

He said 'you know that you see all these old people tottering around barely able to a walk? It is not so much because they are old but because they have not taken any serious exercise for fifty years'. A lightbulb went on in my heads as I realised that this was the path I had been on.

So I returned to swimming after 20 years or so out of the pool, got fitter, got into the gym, started hill-walking. Twenty years later, so now in my sixties, I am still very active, swim three times a week, do some sort of exercise every day.

I have identified the mountain I want to climb on my 70th birthday. Here's hoping!


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> SoVeryLost,
> 
> Amazing achievement.
> When you were shedding weight at what point did you start gain irreversible momentum?
> ...


Thank you!

As far as the momentum, my journey was a little different. Not once did I ever set out to lose weight to look better. I was in a horrible marriage and couldn't have cared less what my spouse thought of me...obviously, since I let myself go so extremely. It was irreversible from the moment I heard the words come out of my doctor's mouth. There was no choice. I wasn't prepared to let my son grow up without a mother, and I certainly wasn't prepared to miss seeing him grow up. It truly was life or death. In those moments there's no room for vanity...you just do what has to be done, and you don't stop until you get there.

That being said...now that the weight is gone and I've maintained for some time now, I still struggle with not only my self-image, but how I am perceived by others.

When you are an obese woman you might as well be invisible, for as much of an oxy moron as that is. In my experience, if you are obese you lose societal value. At least that's how I was treated. I had doors slammed in my face, fingers pointed at me with whispers and muffled laughs, and I've had the most cruelest words I could imagine said to my face, all because of how I looked. 

The world is strange now. Doors are opened for me. I'm greeted with smiles. I'm flirted with. And I look at the people doing these things like a deer in the headlights. My mind can't comprehend the difference in how I am treated now that I'm of "average" size. 

It is easy once you have reached the point where you're in a "safe zone" as far as your health is concerned to get carried away. At one point I weighed 115 lbs, and that was not healthy, nor did I look good. But I do obsess over the scale and oftentimes I struggle with my relationship with food. 

Overall I'm happy with my progress, but there is always room for self-improvement.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

tryingtobebetter said:


> Also, so they say,
> 
> I wish I had spent more time at the office.
> 
> ...


Very inspirational!! I want to climb a mountain on my 70th birthday now. 

My mother's mantra is, "never stop moving." She is 58 and my father is 61, and the physical differences between the two is astounding. She has remained active her entire life. My father has not. My mother goes running on a local trail with me several times a week. My father can barely make it up the stairs of their house.

So glad to hear you turned your health around. Very, very cool.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

"If you don't use it, you lose it"

it's true

I play sports and usually try to exercise about 3-4 times a day at work. We also do a lot of outdoors activities.

I'm still about 20-30lbs over where I would like to be....

Other than that, your avatar OP.....probably not too appropriate for these forums, and not something I really want to see to be honest.



:biggrinangelA:


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

DoF said:


> "If you don't use it, you lose it"
> 
> it's true
> 
> ...


Then don't look.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

SoVeryLost said:


> Then don't look.


So considerate of you

How would you feel if my avatar was half of my ball sack?

Anyways, I don't really care......just busting chops.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

there are so many articles etc out there that complicate staying in shape/being fit.

eat less move more!

its really that simple.


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## Cochise (May 8, 2014)

This is a great topic. Y'all have some very inspiring stories. 

I have to completely agree with the concept that health problems in your 50s, 60s, and beyond are often (but not always) attributed more to lifestyle choices than to disease, genetics, etc. A few years ago I ran a marathon and I was struggling to keep up with some veteran runners in their 50s and 60s. I was 20. I ran beside this lady for a while who was a 58 year old school principle and she told me how the kids at her school were tracking her progress and that they had discussed the race during their fitness week and how all the kids were interested. I thought it was a pretty awesome message that she was sending to the kids at her school.


I'm also trying to limit my carb intake, this is kind of difficult to begin with, but it's more difficult because I don't want to go overboard on low quality meat and skip out on good produce. I try to eat a lot of plants that are high in fat such as avacados, nuts, seeds, etc. and get lots of leafy greens and berries which are high in antioxidents (cancer runs in the family). I pair this with a lot of seafood and a mix of other meat. 

It's still pretty difficult not to splurge on fast food while I'm out; that has been my biggest problem so far. It's a whole different world when you get to college and basically you can eat fast food all the time on your mealplan if you want; and I've been going back and forth with that ever since, though I think I've finally got a handle on my fast food (also includes donut shops etc not just burgers) addiction.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

SoVeryLost said:


> That is amazing to hear! Congrats on your weight loss and maintenance! The positive affirmation we receive during weight loss is motivating, but I'd argue that maintenance takes more work mentally than losing the weight.
> 
> I too had to have my gallbladder removed, so I can empathize with that pain.
> 
> Keep up the good work - it's amazing what a difference the extra weight can make in every facet of your life.



Thanks and congratulations on yours! For me maintenance isn't the problem but life that interferes with my schedule. If work becomes busy and I work through lunch or if things get really stressful, that's when I have problems. I am a stress eater. I love to eat but I eat way too much if I am under stress. So I am working on being more relaxed about stuff and setting more boundaries at work.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> there are so many articles etc out there that complicate staying in shape/being fit.
> 
> eat less move more!
> 
> its really that simple.


:iagree:

Yes, this accounts for most of it. The rest is just second order tweaking.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I was a runner in college on track scholarship 5'-8" and 135 lbs, skiiny as a rail. Ran hard training about 75 miles a week.

After I retired I quit running I slowly gained weight each decade until I almost hit the 200 lb mark in 2006. That scared the sh!t out of me and I finally went into action. during that time starting in the late eighties I went back to running/jogging but it wasn't the answer. I got up to about 5 miles but didn't lose much weight. but I was in a lot better shape.

So I quit running and got fat.

when i hi the 196lb mark, i finally decided enough was enough.

I started a combination of walking and skipping meals.
I got real comfortable eating only once a day and walking/jogging every day. In the last 7 years I've fluctuated between 160lbs and 170lbs. right now i'm about 168 with clothes, flat tummy.

people think i'm weird because i only eat once a day. my family tells me "that's not healthy". but I say; "would it be healthier to go back to 195 lbs?

it works for me. i've kept the weight off for 7 years. I'm 59 years old. I'm on absolutely no medication. In good shape with a heart rate in the 50's. haven't needed a doctor except for taking out a benign cyst in years. blood tests all came out normal.

bottom line: find out what works for you and stick to it the rest of your life.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

For those interested, we have a community called "Healthy Living". It's run by Drerio. If you PM him with an interest to join the group, I'm sure he'll send you an invite.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Here's something weird. when I was a bachelor I ate mostly fast food and my weight went down to it's lowest since i was in college.

then i got married and i eat better, almost never fast food anymore, but i've gained 3 lbs since getting married again a year ago.

when I do eat junk food, my weight tends to go down a bit. doesn't make a whole lot of sense. physical trainers out there?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

jorgegene said:


> Here's something weird. when I was a bachelor I ate mostly fast food and my weight went down to it's lowest since i was in college.
> 
> then i got married and i eat better, almost never fast food anymore, but i've gained 3 lbs since getting married again a year ago.
> 
> when I do eat junk food, my weight tends to go down a bit. doesn't make a whole lot of sense. physical trainers out there?


check out the movie called Fat head. very interesting


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> eat less move more!
> 
> its really that simple.


I thought I was eating healthy until I logged my calorie. I was shocked, I was eating about twice as much as I should have been. I lost 50lbs. 

I actually need to start logging as I've plateaued.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I am 55 and exercise very hard 4 times a week in the pool. Sometimes more.

A doctor told me that my liver function was not right and that alcohol was probably the problem. I drastically reduced alcohol. I have a beer now and again. I can tell that alcohol hurts me.

Nicotine, likewise, is history. I gave up chewing tobacco 14 or 15 years ago.

I am addicted to exercise. Of course the worry is that joints will fail.

It is harder to build muscle now.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Great stories on this thread.

For a me a couple of years ago I topped out at about 240ish lbs.

Just got tired of being tired all the time which came about as many do by just getting caught up in life.

Now about 200ish lbs (still up from my lowest last Christmas at 194 lbs, but working on it again).

Same procedures as many for me. Tracking food, getting back into exercise, sports.

Goal is to be around 170 lbs (or show abs - which ever comes first) on my birthday in a few months.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> I thought I was eating healthy until I logged my calorie. I was shocked, I was eating about twice as much as I should have been. I lost 50lbs.
> 
> I actually need to start logging as I've plateaued.


That is very true for me as well. Restaurant portion sizes are too huge being 2-3 times the calories you should eat. After counting calories for a long time I've figured out good portion sizes for me. A lot of diets actually count calories by ridged portion sizes.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> I am 55 and exercise very hard 4 times a week in the pool. Sometimes more.
> 
> A doctor told me that my liver function was not right and that alcohol was probably the problem. I drastically reduced alcohol. I have a beer now and again. I can tell that alcohol hurts me.
> 
> ...


Yes it is harder to build muscle now for me as well. But its also anout the tendons at least for my sport. My recovery time is about double the length it was 25 years ago. For me that means I can't train that hard any more. I used to be able to sustain 5 workout days a week but I can only to 2-3 now that are hard. I compensate for over training by taking a whole week off every 5-6 weeks to ensure my tendons don't get over stressed. Ever since I started that my overuse injuries have subsided.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I started training with weights when I was 11 years old. I was a year younger than everybody else in my class so I figured I needed the muscle to level the playing field for fighting and for the girls. I continued to train myself and others with various techniques up until about age 25 when I was injured using a barbell. I coasted until about 38, then started adding fat and went from 195# to 257# or so by age 46, maybe as high as 40% body fat. 

Went on Atkins induction (ketogenic) phase, but no exercise, and went down to 205# and a 34 waist. Started adding carbs back in and went up to about 230# four years later and got a prostate cancer diagnosis. By the time I'd recovered from the surgery, I was up to 244# and my GP wanted to talk about Metformin (Type II diabetes). I wasn't interested in Metfomrin so, I went back into training and got on the Paleo diet, more or less. Am now back up at 220# with a 33 waist, headed for 200# and 31 waist, courtesy of the cyclic ketogenic diet.

I did a lot of reading when I was recovering from surgery and reached the conclusion that HIT (High Intensity Training) AKA Nautilus Training Principles as espoused by Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer, et. al. was the way to go and I'm very happy with the results. I also find that a couple of serious 6+ mile walks with a ruck weekly aids in keeping the metabolism high.


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## tryingtobebetter (Aug 6, 2012)

meson said:


> Yes it is harder to build muscle now for me as well. But its also anout the tendons at least for my sport. My recovery time is about double the length it was 25 years ago. For me that means I can't train that hard any more. I used to be able to sustain 5 workout days a week but I can only to 2-3 now that are hard. I compensate for over training by taking a whole week off every 5-6 weeks to ensure my tendons don't get over stressed. Ever since I started that my overuse injuries have subsided.


I used to have a lot of problems with my tendons. Then I was diagnosed with a Vitamin D deficiency, have been taking supplements (after eating a little fat) for two years. The problems with the tendons are much reduced.

And of course swimming and the exercise bike are easy on the joints.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

tryingtobebetter said:


> I used to have a lot of problems with my tendons. Then I was diagnosed with a Vitamin D deficiency, have been taking supplements (after eating a little fat) for two years. The problems with the tendons are much reduced.
> 
> And of course swimming and the exercise bike are easy on the joints.


Vitamin D, especially from the sun, looks more important every day.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> When you are an obese woman you might as well be invisible, for as much of an oxy moron as that is. In my experience, if you are obese you lose societal value.


Guys have the same thing happen. It's not "societal," it's just that people's autonomic reproductive system is designed to overlook people who are not showing good health markers. I've been skinny, well built, fat. Well built gets you treated better by everyone in every situation.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Topped out at 280. God it hurts to even write that. Currently down 30 from there but plateau'd a couple of times at 250. I'm currently making a bum's rush at that wall because it p*sses me off.

Had to stop weight training due to a move (I lift in my garage). Almost have enough boxes cleared to reassemble my equipment.

When I get hungry, I just remind myself that I already ate my lunch--three years early.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> Guys have the same thing happen. It's not "societal," it's just that people's autonomic reproductive system is designed to overlook people who are not showing good health markers. I've been skinny, well built, fat. Well built gets you treated better by everyone in every situation.


The overlooking may be autonomic. The outright nastiness is societal.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

At about 60 I trail run 3 miles twice a day with the dogs and a 25lb pack on. Most days I also do 45 minutes treadmill 7mph 10% incline.

I have inherited cardio and blood disorders which un treated would send my cholesterol and triglycerides far off the charts. I've had a minor cardiac 'event' at 31. I've had cancer twice. I am on a battery of psychotropic drugs. 

We rarely eat red meat maybe once a month. Diet is mostly fish once a day, occasionally chicken. No sauces, added salts or sugars. Other meals are fruits and vegetables, hummus, rice, pita, yoghurt, cheese, buckwheat, pasta. No processed food, no juices with added sugar, no fast food, pizza, Chinese food or french fries.

The house is kosher.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

I've found that the secret weapon to better fitness is ... retirement. With time now, I walk 6 miles round trip to the local Y every other day, spend an hour or so in the nautilus room while I'm there. I've developed noticeable upper-body definition, moving toward Machiavelli's famous V-torso (whether I'll ever get there is another matter). W likes to "feel my muscles," something that never happened in the past. I supplement daily with Omega-3, Vitamin D, fiber and baby aspirin.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

tryingtobebetter said:


> I used to have a lot of problems with my tendons. Then I was diagnosed with a Vitamin D deficiency, have been taking supplements (after eating a little fat) for two years. The problems with the tendons are much reduced.
> 
> And of course swimming and the exercise bike are easy on the joints.


I supplement with vitamin D as well. My doctor was on that bandwagon years ago. 

It's my fingers and elbows that had tendon issues. Fortunately my knees are in good shape for now.


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

SoVeryLost said:


> Since I started this thread I'll go first.
> 
> Cliff's Notes of my story... Three years ago I weighed 303 lbs. Everything in my life seemed to suck at the time, and my answer was to drown my sorrows in food. After a health scare at 29, the doctor gave me the wake-up call I needed. Without hesitation I bought an elliptical, I started a food journal, and with a determined mind the pounds fell off more quickly than I could have ever imagined. Funny how motivated you become when someone tells you you're going to die.
> 
> ...


You are quite the inspiration, SVL. I might just print this post out and tape it to the fridge. You make me realize that despite my long and crazy work hours I cannot let myself make excuses. I'm 50, but not too far gone. I'd like to drop about 20lbs. Just gotta do it. 

BTW, with your inspirational story and your lovely legs (yeah, I saw'em) I think you need to change your screen name to SoVeryAwesome.


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## Shift (Jan 22, 2013)

Thanks for starting this thread! Amazing stories! Just the motivation I need to keep going. In high school I was 155lbs at 6ft. Skinny as a ski pole! About two years ago I started to get into weight training and watching my diet. I went up to 170lbs of mostly lean muscle. Now at age 24 I am at 185lbs with about 11% body fat. I'm still trying to gain weight and ultimately hit my goal of 200lbs. I've ran into some old friend and they always point out how much bigger I've gotten and am no longer the skinny nerd in school haha. I simply enjoy the challenge and always look for self improvement. The best opponent is yourself. Best of wishes to everyone and their goal as well! I'll take any suggestions for gaining mass. I don't take any supplements.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

The number one thing I would share and personally experienced was weightlifting. I used to run, bike, swim what have you but kept gaining weight. To much cardio, while good for your heart, not as much as you would think in terms of loosing weight. I was 50 lbs overweight 6 years ago when a friend introduced me back into weight lifting. I lost all 50 and have kept it off.

The real disservice is to women. They are just now telling women to get into the weight room but for years have been telling them they would get big if they did. It's just not true. Lean muscle mass, which is built by resistance training, happens in weight room not cardio room. Lean muscle mass torches fat

If you don't believe me go to any gym and see where the most fit people are, It's the weight room and yoga room not running on machines.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Deleted


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I don't eat breakfast or lunch so I started doing protein shakes then. We always eat a healthy dinner. I've cut out any other drinks besides water and am doing the Couch to 5K program which is awesome. I also picked up my Chantix today to finally quit smoking. The divorce diet lost me about 20lbs the first two weeks.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm 6'3'' and use to weight 250 Lbs. Now down to 226.
I've worked out for 5 years now. When my marriage ran into big issues I started my MAP. Just to up my Sex Rank-it's working.
Lots of the gals at work would like to get their hands on me-I don't care. 
Supplements:
whey protein isolate
CLA
BCAA
Maca
Tribulis
Selenium
Vitamin B12 / D / E
Fish Oil 3-6-9


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> The overlooking may be autonomic. The outright nastiness is societal.


I never got any of the outright nastiness, but some of my obese friends, did. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for my wife, all my obese time was in years 15-19 of our marriage.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> The number one thing I would share and personally experienced was weightlifting. I used to run, bike, swim what have you but kept gaining weight. To much cardio, while good for your heart, not as much as you would think in terms of loosing weight. I was 50 lbs overweight 6 years ago when a friend introduced me back into weight lifting. I lost all 50 and have kept it off.
> 
> The real disservice is to women. They are just now telling women to get into the weight room but for years have been telling them they would get big if they did. It's just not true. Lean muscle mass, which is built by resistance training, happens in weight room not cardio room. Lean muscle mass torches fat
> 
> If you don't believe me go to any gym and see where the most fit people are, It's the weight room and yoga room not running on machines.


So true!! I have so many friends who won't lift with me because they say they don't want to "bulk up." I try to explain to them how difficult it is to put on the kind of lean muscle they'd need to look like a body builder, but they won't hear any of it. 

There's a good book that I picked up called "The New Rules of Lifting: Lift Like a Man, Look Like a Goddess" - I recommend it for any woman who is looking for more information on the subject. It's written very well in my opinion.

I also encourage them to look at the difference in body compositions of those on the cardio machines and those lifting. The majority of the heavy people are sweating it out on the treadmills while all the fit people are on the weights. That being said, I do find a great deal of value in cardio, but I think it's important to balance the two out. Personally I just love to run. Why? Because there was a time I couldn't walk up five stairs without being completely winded. I'm addicted to how my body feels when it's working that hard. But the weights are just as important.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Nucking Futs,

Most likely, that drug you're on has some kind of effect on metabolism and causes fat to be stored or inhibits fat burning. Perhaps it stimulates or mimics certain enzymes that would normally be neutralized when in ketosis.

Ketosis won't hurt you. Back 10,000 years ago when carbs were strictly seasonal, everybody spent over half the year or more in ketosis.

The carb up day is a good idea. If you were stuck, and the drug was not a likely culprit, I would suggest continuing exactly as you are doing, but cutting total calories, including the cheat days, to about 2200. That would approximate the Anabolic Diet, which is another great ketogenic diet.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Nucking Futs said to cut the quote...


Some times the fat will fight you back really hard. You can be in ketosis but still bringing in too many calories. Drop your calories a bit. Even down to 2000 or slightly under. I don't know where we figured we needed to be at 3000 calories and up for our bodyweights, it's usually much less.

I would mess around in this ketosis realm and if it's making you sluggish for your workouts have a hit of orange juice before your workout.

Use cardio along with the weights to get the job done. Look at monthly body weight drop totals. You can drop 8lbs a month rather easily.

Drink enough actual water. I found that if it's not water it causes the body to retain fluids strangely and it looks like fat.

On a 5'8" person I'd be trying to get it down to 200 lb even if you want to look somewhat strong and atheletic and you will feel miles better than you do today.

I'd do a diet with 175 protein, 70 carbs and 70 fats on your low carb days, and on high carb days keep it under 200 carbs. So that's 1600 cals on low carb days and 2100 cals on hi carb days. You can even do 1000 cals on some days or even 500 cals... Make sure you work out, but not as intensly, it will keep your metabolism up and the next day you can feed it at a normal level so your body doesn't freak out.

Cut out alcohol, processed carbs, sugars, too much fruit and juices.

You can do it.

On the cardio i'd do at least 3 30 minute sessions per week with 4 to 5 weight days at an hour.

It be better if your cardio was just a good 30min-1hrs walk every single day in the morning before work.

Your body will fight you when you try to get it dropping and it could take twice as long as you expect to get the weight dropping, but it will start to drop.

I know you can do it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I wanted to post in this thread from the beginning but I couldn't get the time this morning.
Anyway here's my entry.

I'm 44 , well over six feet tall and 225 lbs solid muscle.
I wasn't always this way, I was a skinny 180 lbs at age 39 when i had a mild heart attack.
So I decided to get back into fitness because I had stopped and began eating anything and everything.

I didn't get fat , because my body burns fat quickly, but I think my cholesterol levels were high because I began to suffer from mild ED issues , and would find myself out of breath easily.

Anyway after the heart episode, I decided to start back exercising, and now four years later I'm still in the gym, doing heavy weights, feeling fit,no more ED issues, and my heart feels fine.

I took a liking to bodybuilding because I liked how my body began to look, and people kept complementing.
My body responded quickly and well.
Then I realized I had to change my diet and consume more food, in order to grow.

I tend to loose weight very quickly, like in a matter of days, I can loose between 5 lbs - 8 lbs if I wanted. Just cut back on my carbs and increase my cardio intensity.

So presently, I have four to five meals per day, I usually aim for half dozen eggs, fish , about two pounds of beans, brown rice , yams ,rolled oats , peanut butter, one litre of full cream milk ,and so forth.

My protein intake / day is 300 grams.
Calorie intake / day is approx 4500 cal.

Supplements.

Optimum Nutrition - Pro Complex Gainer [ Whey Protein]
Optimum Nutrition -Creatine Monohydrate.
Universal Nutrition- Amino 2700. [ BCAA's ]
Universal nutrition- ZMA [ Zinc Magnesium Aspartate. [ Natural Testosterone Booster.]
Fish Oil 1000 mg.
Universal Nutrition- Animal Paks [ Multi Vitamins ]
Nutrabolics- Anabolic State [ Intra Workout ]
Universal nutrition - Animal Rage [ Pre Workout stimulant]
I sometimes tweak these supplements if I'm bulking or cutting.
I've just started back bulking , so my aim is to gain another solid 5lbs of muscle . I'd have to bulk up to around 235 lbs and then cut.

I like amateur bodybuilding , because i can manipulate how my body looks plus I just have lots of fun lifting really heavy things.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> The number one thing I would share and personally experienced was weightlifting. I used to run, bike, swim what have you but kept gaining weight. To much cardio, while good for your heart, not as much as you would think in terms of loosing weight. I was 50 lbs overweight 6 years ago when a friend introduced me back into weight lifting. I lost all 50 and have kept it off.
> 
> The real disservice is to women. They are just now telling women to get into the weight room but for years have been telling them they would get big if they did. It's just not true. Lean muscle mass, which is built by resistance training, happens in weight room not cardio room. Lean muscle mass torches fat
> 
> If you don't believe me go to any gym and see where the most fit people are, It's the weight room and yoga room not running on machines.


Actually cardio is the best for losing weight when you keep your max heart rate between 65 or 75%. This develops the growth of mitochondria that metabolize fat. If your cardio workout stresses you heart above 75% then you are developing mitochondria that metabolize glycogen which is basically sugar which makes you need to eat to keep your glycogen stores adequate. 

Look at how endurance athletes train. That is how to train to metabolize fat. That is how I lost my weight. I never weight train because it does just what people say it builds bulk. Bulk is ugly and weighs too much to carry for sports like climbing and gymnastic. Body weight exercises are the best way to do resistance work because you work on moving exactly what you need and not any more.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Soverylost

Great personal story, and great idea for a thread!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Fordsvt said:


> I'm 6'3'' and use to weight 250 Lbs. Now down to 226.
> I've worked out for 5 years now. When my marriage ran into big issues I started my MAP. Just to up my Sex Rank-it's working.
> Lots of the gals at work would like to get their hands on me-I don't care.
> Supplements:
> ...


Tell me about your Maca and Tribulus Terristris; effect and brand?

Instead of fish oil, I use Cod Liver Oil.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Fordsvt said:


> I'm 6'3'' and use to weight 250 Lbs. Now down to 226.
> I've worked out for 5 years now. When my marriage ran into big issues I started my MAP. Just to up my Sex Rank-it's working.
> Lots of the gals at work would like to get their hands on me-I don't care.
> Supplements:
> ...


I forgot to add BCAAs to my list, but I take that as well. Question though... I've been told the BCAAs are basically pointless since my whey protein isolate already includes BCAAs. Personally I like the taste of it in my water at the gym, but the brand I buy (Gaspari sp?) is a tad bit on the expensive side for how quickly I go through it. If there's already BCAAs in my whey, I wonder if I really need to purchase the BCAAs separately...?


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Machiavelli said:


> I did a lot of reading when I was recovering from surgery and reached the conclusion that HIT (High Intensity Training) AKA Nautilus Training Principles as espoused by Arthur Jones, Mike Mentzer, et. al. was the way to go and I'm very happy with the results. I also find that a couple of serious 6+ mile walks with a ruck weekly aids in keeping the metabolism high.


HIT is great for increasing max O2. That's why I like to trail run. The hills will spike your heart and keep your body from adapting to constant output. Then you keep your average heart rate in the zone and you train for endurance. 

Thr philosophy i use use is to train for the sport. For me I need 30-45 minutes of high intensity followed by 30-45 minutes of rest that last 10 hours. So I need to mix HRT with endurance training to achieve my goals.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Soverylost
> 
> Great personal story, and great idea for a thread!


....not only that, I don't mind your avatar at all. Especially since I don't see you having an avatars..anywhere. :scratchhead:


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> ....not only that, I don't mind your avatar at all. Especially since I don't see you having an avatars..anywhere. :scratchhead:


My avatar was a photo of my lower jaw, neck, and fully clothed upper torso that showed only a very slight hint of cleavage from the dress I was wearing. The photo was deemed inappropriate by a fellow poster who then went on to somehow liken it to male genitalia. 

My intent has never been, nor ever will be to offend or make anyone uncomfortable on this forum, so although I saw no merit in that poster's remarks I decided to delete my avatar. If it made him that uncomfortable and disgusted then perhaps other people feel the same. I have remedied the problem. Done and done.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I used to typically weigh around the 200 lb range, but after taking a less physical job, I went up to as high as 235 which made me extremely unhappy.

We discovered a paleo style diet via The Primal Blueprint which operates from the theory of eating closer to what ancestor humans ate before agriculture and the modern processed food boom. Primal eating shies away from grains and corn (and other inflammatory foods) and recommends organic proteins and organic vegetables. 

What makes our weight explode is the constant Carb Cycle via sugar and other carb loaded meals...where we eat our meal, get a boost, crash, need another boost, crash. When I started primal, it was hard kicking the carbs, but suddenly I had lots of energy, dropped weight effortlessly. First realization that I was going in the right direction was when I had some cheesecake about a month in the program...and I felt ill and disoriented from the harsh processed sugar for hours. One night, I failed to plan a meal and tried to eat a frozen meal I had...and it was inedible to me due to the insane amount of sodium. I dropped 25 lbs within a couple months. The book teaches that the recommended Standard American Diet is the most unhealthy thing we can do to ourselves.

When my marriage went south, I went off track and my weight bounced right back. Now I weigh less than two hundred again.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> I used to typically weigh around the 200 lb range, but after taking a less physical job, I went up to as high as 235 which made me extremely unhappy.
> 
> We discovered a paleo style diet via The Primal Blueprint which operates from the theory of eating closer to what ancestor humans ate before agriculture and the modern processed food boom. Primal eating shies away from grains and corn (and other inflammatory foods) and recommends organic proteins and organic vegetables.
> 
> ...


I've read a great deal about eating primal and am interested in implementing it. All of the information I've read about it just seems to click...it makes perfect common sense to me. 

So did you ease into it first, making small changes, or did you begin it cold turkey, so to speak, and just dive right into it?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

SoVeryLost said:


> My avatar was a photo of my lower jaw, neck, and fully clothed upper torso that showed only a very slight hint of cleavage from the dress I was wearing. The photo was deemed inappropriate by a fellow poster who then went on to somehow liken it to male genitalia.
> 
> My intent has never been, nor ever will be to offend or make anyone uncomfortable on this forum, so although I saw no merit in that poster's remarks I decided to delete my avatar. If it made him that uncomfortable and disgusted then perhaps other people feel the same. I have remedied the problem. Done and done.


I'm offended that you removed your avatar. The lack makes me very uncomfortable, so can you please put it back? Besides, are you sure he wasn't joking?

I've changed my avatar until you put yours back.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm offended that you removed your avatar. The lack makes me very uncomfortable, so can you please put it back? Besides, are you sure he wasn't joking?
> 
> I've changed my avatar until you put yours back.


I see what you did there. 

And no...I don't think he was joking. In fact what he wrote bothered me all day. No more posting pics for this girl. My ego is far too frail.


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## Dredd (Apr 16, 2014)

SoVeryLost said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> And no...I don't think he was joking. In fact what he wrote bothered me all day. No more posting pics for this girl. My ego is far too frail.


Who said what?


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

SoVeryLost said:


> I've read a great deal about eating primal and am interested in implementing it. All of the information I've read about it just seems to click...it makes perfect common sense to me.
> 
> So did you ease into it first, making small changes, or did you begin it cold turkey, so to speak, and just dive right into it?


We did our best to go whole hog...it was difficult, as you just feel sapped and "hangry" from sugar and carb withdrawal. The author suggests an 80% adherence, giving yourself a little room for enjoyment...but we had to make sure to stay away from trigger things, like soda. Haha. My concerns were cost and portions. But cost was stable because you don't need to eat as much...you are satiated easier because little carbs and the quality of the food. Smaller, more frequent meals as well. I cannot state enough the quality of free-range grass fed beef versus vegetarian (corn) fed beef. I got sick less and had much more energy and I was getting reactions from all my friends and co-workers. 

The primal book is pretty good and the author does pretty good in presenting the research, but the basic info is given on his site which is religiously updated and has quite a following:
Mark's Daily Apple No, I am not a salesperson, just benefited largely from it, making me one of THOSE people who had to unlearn so much what I was taught about eating. I've tried to tell my mom about it, but she is so stuck on the thought the healthy eating is about choosing multi-grain.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Awesome, thank you for the book referral. I'll definitely be picking it up.

How long would you say it took for your cravings to diminish? And how soon would you say you started feeling the increased energy, etc? Are you still eating primal?

Sorry for the 20 questions! This is something I'm just so interested in. I've never come across anyone else who's even heard of primal.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Dredd said:


> Who said what?


Eh, just water under the bridge.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

SoVeryLost said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> And no...I don't think he was joking. In fact what he wrote bothered me all day. No more posting pics for this girl. My ego is far too frail.


Great, now I'm stuck with this picture of my brother as my avatar.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Biologically, I'd say it took about two weeks to get out of withdrawal...the emotional eating component is another story. Just altering my eating alone helped me dropped 25 lbs, exercise helped me lose another ten. 

As for energy...it is a more subtle energy...where you can sustain all day, because you aren't waking up soggy from overnight carb crash and you aren't frenetic from a carb spike. My wife discovered that it balances out her mood swings. Hard to say when it kicked in...I just noticed it one day about several weeks in.

The tough thing about eating primal is the severe planning it takes to stay on it...as you have to look and seek around for resources in your area, plan your meals, and have emergency plans...'cos you will have a hard time sticking to it if you forget to take your snacks to work and whatnot. Very easy to drop when things happens, as in my case, a marital separation. My wife struggled too because she emotionally uses food and gained all her weight back and then some. After we got back together, we tried to reimplement it, but more marital fluctuations put it off, then my being diagnosed with multiple myeloma.

Now that things have stabilized, we are back on it...so I really don't have a lengthy track record, but it has definitely made its mark enough on us to know that it is the right direction.


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> Great, now I'm stuck with this picture of my brother as my avatar.


Your brother has...umm...beautiful eyes. :smthumbup:


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I gotta say it, this thread has really inspired me...

...to go finish that last slice of pizza. 

Geez, I need to get to the gym.

F*ck.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Some times the fat will fight you back really hard. You can be in ketosis but still bringing in too many calories. Drop your calories a bit. Even down to 2000 or slightly under. I don't know where we figured we needed to be at 3000 calories and up for our bodyweights, it's usually much less.
> 
> *I am averaging right around 2000 cal/day 6 days a week, no clue what I'm getting on cheat days. I probably ought to track that.*
> 
> ...














Machiavelli said:


> Nucking Futs,
> 
> Most likely, that drug you're on has some kind of effect on metabolism and causes fat to be stored or inhibits fat burning. Perhaps it stimulates or mimics certain enzymes that would normally be neutralized when in ketosis.
> 
> ...


There's that 2200 cal figure again. I guess I need to up my fat intake. I'm staying below 30 carbs and right around 2000 cal.

I'm really leaning towards the drug being the culprit. I can drop out of the trial any time but my latest blood tests showed almost normal liver enzymes so I'm hesitant. I'll be seeing the dietitian next week and I'll ask her to run it by one of the endo's running this show.

How good an idea is the carb up day really? More to the point, how necessary? I don't have any trouble switching back and forth but I feel better when I just stay in ketosis and I really don't see any difference in the gym. In reading about this diet I keep finding that you can't build muscle on ketones, you need carbs for muscle building, but I keep wondering why the Inuit weren't all laying flaccid all over the ice on their diet.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> There's that 2200 cal figure again. I guess I need to up my fat intake. I'm staying below 30 carbs and right around 2000 cal.
> 
> I'm really leaning towards the drug being the culprit. I can drop out of the trial any time but my latest blood tests showed almost normal liver enzymes so I'm hesitant. I'll be seeing the dietitian next week and I'll ask her to run it by one of the endo's running this show.
> 
> How good an idea is the carb up day really? More to the point, how necessary? I don't have any trouble switching back and forth but I feel better when I just stay in ketosis and I really don't see any difference in the gym. In reading about this diet I keep finding that you can't build muscle on ketones, you need carbs for muscle building, but I keep wondering why the Inuit weren't all laying flaccid all over the ice on their diet.



Carbs produce energy quicker than fats or proteins. So if your around your ideal weight some carbs or the right amount of carbs is great. If you have too much bodyfat low carb or ketosis is great because
It means the body is getting most of its fuel from fat. Expirament with staying in ketosis and a e
Really low cal day like 1000 or under. Do excercize on this day to keep the metabolism up. You will burn more fat on that day because you hardly took anything in. id do protein and good fat on that day. Keep the rest of the days under 2000. In 8 to 12 weeks of determined effort that be 20 to 30 lbs of fat stripped out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Carbs produce energy quicker than fats or proteins. So if your around your ideal weight some carbs or the right amount of carbs is great. If you have too much bodyfat low carb or ketosis is great because
> It means the body is getting most of its fuel from fat. Expirament with staying in ketosis and a e
> Really low cal day like 1000 or under. Do excercize on this day to keep the metabolism up. You will burn more fat on that day because you hardly took anything in. id do protein and good fat on that day. Keep the rest of the days under 2000. In 8 to 12 weeks of determined effort that be 20 to 30 lbs of fat stripped out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Do this low cal day every 4 to seven days. Your pretty much dropping a half pound of fat on this day alone. Do the same thing on the other days your already doing but drop the cals by 200 to 300 over what your doing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Job required a certain degree of physical fitness and I was in great shape for years. Got seriously injured during a training exercise and was down for a long time. Still not back to what I was and the injuries sustained still plague me. Getting old doesn't help either.

Running is a job requirement, hate it but keep at it. Lifting is good when I'm not crippled up. Other than that, lots of sex and watch the diet.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I've seen several posters recommend Paleo. I spotted a couple of books on it at Costco the other day....might be time to give a try...


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## kilgore (Dec 14, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> I see what you did there.
> 
> And no...I don't think he was joking. In fact what he wrote bothered me all day. No more posting pics for this girl. My ego is far too frail.


put yours back and i'll make mine the full kilgore. actually, that might discourage you, lol


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

note to self .....buy stock in supplement companies.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> note to self .....buy stock in supplement companies.


Supplement industry is a billion dollar industry , worldwide.

Funny thing is, quite a lot of the stuff they sell are either overpriced or don't work.

I usually do lots of research before purchasing supplements.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I agree. There is lots of junk out there to buy. Research is smart to see what your putting into your body. A good balanced diet is critical too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

meson said:


> HIT is great for increasing max O2. That's why I like to trail run. The hills will spike your heart and keep your body from adapting to constant output. Then you keep your average heart rate in the zone and you train for endurance.
> 
> Thr philosophy i use use is to train for the sport. For me I need 30-45 minutes of high intensity followed by 30-45 minutes of rest that last 10 hours. So I need to mix HRT with endurance training to achieve my goals.


You are confusing HIT with HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). HIIT is the application of HIT principles, mainly stimulating glycolysis on the anaerobic pathway and "fight or flight" response, from the weight room to the track. Both are excellent ways to exercise.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Supplement industry is a billion dollar industry , worldwide.
> 
> Funny thing is, quite a lot of the stuff they sell are either overpriced or don't work.
> 
> I usualld lots of research before purchasing supplements.


In the USA, the stuff that really works is usually a felony.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Ripper said:


> Job required a certain degree of physical fitness and I was in great shape for years. Got seriously injured during a training exercise and was down for a long time. Still not back to what I was and the injuries sustained still plague me. Getting old doesn't help either.
> 
> Running is a job requirement, hate it but keep at it. Lifting is good when I'm not crippled up. Other than that, lots of sex and watch the diet.


That's a fun job, if its the one I'm thinking of. All the lifers who started with me had wrecked knees by the time they retired, so what's the advantage to retiring at age 38?

Unless you're in the infantry or track and field, there is absolutely no reason for anybody to run in a steady state.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Machiavelli said:


> In the USA, the stuff that really works is usually a felony.


LOL=too funny
I know a few guys who were using HGH, Steriods and such. Years later we are in our early 40's and they are having health issues now. I stay away from that stuff


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

meson said:


> Actually cardio is the best for losing weight when you keep your max heart rate between 65 or 75%. This develops the growth of mitochondria that metabolize fat. If your cardio workout stresses you heart above 75% then you are developing mitochondria that metabolize glycogen which is basically sugar which makes you need to eat to keep your glycogen stores adequate.
> 
> Look at how endurance athletes train. That is how to train to metabolize fat. That is how I lost my weight. I never weight train because it does just what people say it builds bulk. Bulk is ugly and weighs too much to carry for sports like climbing and gymnastic. Body weight exercises are the best way to do resistance work because you work on moving exactly what you need and not any more.


can you explain this a bit more. this mitochondria thing.

I was an endurance athlete and we did mostly super high intensity interval training. for example 2 mile warm-up, following by 12 x 440 near top speed, jog between each 440, 2 mile warm down. nothing like the 65-75% of max. heart rate you mention.

also, when I do the elliptical occasionally, i work up to 125-135 heart rate. is that too much. that's about 80% max.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Hooray for a health and fitness thread . . . cuz I'm a junkie!

Been working out most of my adult life in one way, shape or form. Most recent transition (within last 2 years) has been to shun cardio workouts and up the weights. I've always done strength training as part of my routine . . . now it pretty much IS my routine. I might do 15-20 minutes of sprints once or twice a week and take a spin class once in awhile, but if I'm doing cardio for longer than 20 minutes it's because I'm out having fun--mountain biking, day hiking, train running, etc. 

I added cross fit style workouts about a year ago as well but as the amount I could lift increased, I began to get worried about my form, so I joined a xfit gym with certified olympic weightlifting coaches for a few months to get my form scrutinized. It was a good move--I was headed down the road to some serious overuse injuries because I needed correction of several of the olympic lifts. My maxes are also increasing because of the improvement in my form. 

I still struggle with tendonitis in my elbows and a shoulder impingement, but it's not impeded my progress too much so far, as long as I'm careful and as long as I am faithful about seeing my physical therapist on a regular basis. I'm also missing a PCL in one knee due to a biking accident, so I have to watch for tendonitis there, too. The thing about injuries is that they keep you pretty darn honest in your form, and make you think twice about going for that higher 1 rep max to cap of your workout. I'm guilty of pushing to hard to fast, and have overtrained myself into a hole more than once.

I'm full paleo--flirted with it for a few years then went full over a year ago and haven't looked back. What made me commit to trying it was the niggling indicators of systemic inflammation--allergic reactive asthma, joint pain, elevated CRP levels, a bout with exercise-induced rosacia that took weeks to clear up, IBS . . .the list goes on. I was sick to death of the heavy duty asthma meds and when I started paleo I went of the the asthma meds cold turkey. Haven't needed a single puff since, and my allergic reactions these days are limited to some eye itchiness in the spring. IBS and bloating are gone, my mood stabilized and . . . drum roll . . . my sex drive is through the roof. I'm not one to say that one lifestyle is right for everyone, but paleo is IT for me. 

I do struggle with energy sometimes--feel deeply fatigued within a few hours of a really hard workout sometimes. A trainer at my xfit gym suggested I try overlaying The Zone diet on top of paleo to see if my protein/fat/card proportions need some tweaking. Beyond vit D, iron (my ferritin is low) calcium and magnesium I don't supplement at all--the most I'll do is down a gel if I bonk during a workout. I have being going back and forth on this since I'm having trouble keeping my weight up since going paleo. Want to gain muscle, of course, but not fat. I'm highly suspicious of the supplement industry and just haven't had the time to do the research on what science supports as effective and worthwhile.

I've loved reading everyone's health and fitness stories. I'm always looking to change things up; I get bored easily and don't like to stick to one routine for long. I've been getting some good ideas in this thread--keep them coming!


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

meson said:


> Actually cardio is the best for losing weight when you keep your max heart rate between 65 or 75%. This develops the growth of mitochondria that metabolize fat. If your cardio workout stresses you heart above 75% then you are developing mitochondria that metabolize glycogen which is basically sugar which makes you need to eat to keep your glycogen stores adequate.
> 
> Look at how endurance athletes train. That is how to train to metabolize fat. That is how I lost my weight. I never weight train because it does just what people say it builds bulk. Bulk is ugly and weighs too much to carry for sports like climbing and gymnastic. Body weight exercises are the best way to do resistance work because you work on moving exactly what you need and not any more.


Let's look at this a different way. 

4 years ago I weighed 255. I am 6 feet tall. I went into full P90X mode. Completed 6 months of it. (2 3 month periods) I started doing long distance trail running mixed into P90X and Insanity for cardio days. Yeah, as of last year, I was at 185 and was doing really well in a lot of areas. Problem is quality of life wasn't the best. I like to take in a lot of food. It's very clean (paleo), but I do like a good amount of volume. In order to do that, you have to lift heavy weight to create after burn.

Today...11 months into crossfit. My weight varies between 210 and 215 (depending on time of day). I am much stronger than I was a year ago. Sex? Better. My waist is the same. I do have more bulk, and a TON more attention from females. The girls I train with look fantastic. They definitely aren't bulky, and they lift weights. Here is the bottom line- muscle burns fat. Period. 

So, I do believe it depends on what you want your lifestyle to look like and what your goals are. I was having issues with my joints in my legs from the long sessions of cardio. Those have gone away from increasing weight training and lowering the non resistance cardio. (running/etc)

So, 6 ft, 215 and look better than I did when I played college football. Yeah. Life is good.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

> I have being going back and forth on this since I'm having trouble keeping my weight up since going paleo. Want to gain muscle, of course, but not fat. I'm highly suspicious of the supplement industry and just haven't had the time to do the research on what science supports as effective and worthwhile.


Have you considered doing primal? Have you checked these guys out Eat to Perform |Eat to Perform ?


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Have you considered doing primal? Have you checked these guys out Eat to Perform |Eat to Perform ?


Well I already am full Paleo, so do you mean add back in the dairy and maybe legumes? I can't do the dairy--it makes me wheeze. 

I'll take a gander at the link. I'm a Mark's Daily Apple reader, so I do get lots o' info from the Primal crowd there.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

GettingIt said:


> Well I already am full Paleo, so do you mean add back in the dairy and maybe legumes? I can't do the dairy--it makes me wheeze.
> 
> I'll take a gander at the link. I'm a Mark's Daily Apple reader, so I do get lots o' info from the Primal crowd there.


Ok. So no go on the dairy. How is your sweet potato intake? I take in more carbs than the typical paleo person. Most people in our gym lost weight while I'm up 27 lbs in a year.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Ok. So no go on the dairy. How is your sweet potato intake? I take in more carbs than the typical paleo person. Most people in our gym lost weight while I'm up 27 lbs in a year.


I do more carbs than the usual paleo eater, too. But I never started paleo in order to lose weight--more to feel better and control health issues. I eat sweet potatoes, winter squash, and a sh!t ton of fresh fruit and veggies. I did take it easy on the dried fruit--raisins are like candy to me--because I actually started to gain fat when I was eating a lot of that for carbs. I was thinking about reading The Paleo Diet for Athletes to see if I can gain some insight. I'd like to actually cut down on the carbs a little more, just don't know where to add the calories. Fat, I guess--though I eat loads of that, too.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

The average American farmer circa 1790 consumed 5-6000 calories a day. You need not only to move about you need to always be moving about. Throw away your noisy leaf blower and pick up a rake. Use a bow saw instead of a chainsaw (where possible). Dig that stump out don't call in the grinder. Spread that 10 cubic yards of mulch yourself. A bag of topsoil is 40lbs dry. Your garden could probably use 20 of them. Do it yourself.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I'm going to Best Buy and getting a heavier mouse.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

SoVeryLost said:


> Very inspirational!! I want to climb a mountain on my 70th birthday now.
> 
> My mother's mantra is, "never stop moving." She is 58 and my father is 61, and the physical differences between the two is astounding. She has remained active her entire life. My father has not. My mother goes running on a local trail with me several times a week. My father can barely make it up the stairs of their house.
> 
> So glad to hear you turned your health around. Very, very cool.


Absolutely I agree with being active. My sister who is an RN works with lots of elderly (65+) clients and she says the ones that stay active always do better when they are older.

My dad is 76 and is active and healthy while my MIL who is 77 needs a walker and is not that active nor has she ever really been. So close to the same age but very different health wise.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

jorgegene said:


> can you explain this a bit more. this mitochondria thing.
> 
> I was an endurance athlete and we did mostly super high intensity interval training. for example 2 mile warm-up, following by 12 x 440 near top speed, jog between each 440, 2 mile warm down. nothing like the 65-75% of max. heart rate you mention.
> 
> also, when I do the elliptical occasionally, i work up to 125-135 heart rate. is that too much. that's about 80% max.


This link has the details:

MarathonGuide.com -

I learned about this from a mountaineer who has summited Everest and K2 by training with these principles.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> The average American farmer circa 1790 consumed 5-6000 calories a day. You need not only to move about you need to always be moving about. Throw away your noisy leaf blower and pick up a rake. Use a bow saw instead of a chainsaw (where possible). Dig that stump out don't call in the grinder. Spread that 10 cubic yards of mulch yourself. A bag of topsoil is 40lbs dry. Your garden could probably use 20 of them. Do it yourself.


Yes, use a rake! (I can rake my yard faster than the neighbors can blow it) There are lots of things we can do every day like this. I walk up to the seventh floor of my building to work.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> After we got back together, we tried to reimplement it, but more marital fluctuations put it off, then my being diagnosed with multiple myeloma.
> 
> Now that things have stabilized, we are back on it...so I really don't have a lengthy track record, but it has definitely made its mark enough on us to know that it is the right direction.


FS, have you ever looked in the ketogenic diet for cancer? When I was diagnosed with PCa nobody said a word to me about the fact that cancerous tumors run on glucose.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

Dedicated2Her said:


> Let's look at this a different way.
> 
> 4 years ago I weighed 255. I am 6 feet tall. I went into full P90X mode. Completed 6 months of it. (2 3 month periods) I started doing long distance trail running mixed into P90X and Insanity for cardio days. Yeah, as of last year, I was at 185 and was doing really well in a lot of areas. Problem is quality of life wasn't the best. I like to take in a lot of food. It's very clean (paleo), but I do like a good amount of volume. In order to do that, you have to lift heavy weight to create after burn.
> 
> ...


You are correct that building metabolism this way can work as well. A coworker of mine prefers this and we argue over it extensively. The drawback that wolf was referring to is that it didn't work for him which is why I suggested cardio in a less intensive way. It doesn't work for my wife either because her hunger grows and she eats too much. It does work for my coworker but he always has a bucket of food that he carries around. But your point about the goals is correct because my coworker has differing goals from mine like you do.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> I've seen several posters recommend Paleo. I spotted a couple of books on it at Costco the other day....might be time to give a try...


For many of us it works excellent. You've been overcarbed for years, and it's literally years of fat to strip off of you, so it won't happen overnight.

After you been in ketosis for a while, you will learn the value of carbs. They have their place especially when you are closer to your target body fat levels.

Carbs are very quick acting sources of energy, and more powerful energy, but you can run off of fat alone, and as long as you remain at a deficit, it will eat into your fat stores. This is the whole premise of low carb/keto diets.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

meson said:


> You are correct that building metabolism this way can work as well. A coworker of mine prefers this and we argue over it extensively. The drawback that wolf was referring to is that it didn't work for him which is why I suggested cardio in a less intensive way. It doesn't work for my wife either because her hunger grows and she eats too much. It does work for my coworker but he always has a bucket of food that he carries around. But your point about the goals is correct because my coworker has differing goals from mine like you do.


Wifey needs to learn to control the hunger and not allow it to control her.

That's the secret. Control what you are putting and and putting out and the work you put on the body.

Over time the appetite will adjust, but it will take a couple of weeks.

I turn that hunger into DRIVE needed to be strong and accomplish the mission.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

kilgore said:


> put yours back and i'll make mine the full kilgore. actually, that might discourage you, lol


Weren't you the guy that was joking about balls all the time, and you used to have 2 orange golf balls as your avatar?


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## Cochise (May 8, 2014)

I actually just started the paleo diet at the beginning of this week. It's soooo difficult to keep carbs under 20g in order to get into ketosis. I know the ketogenic diet and paleo diet are 2 different things, but they often overlap, and I figured that I'd try to get into ketosis. If I eat a single banana I'm over my 20g of carbs for the day, pretty crazy. BTW I did that twice this week. Even though I went over my limit, I still ate a lot less carbs, and especially processed carbs, than I did before this week. It really opened my eyes up to how much processed carbs are in the foods that I typically eat.

It may just be placebo, but I'm feeling better already.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Well...lost my last reply to faulty network so I'll keep this short.


Great thread and a good source of motivation again.


Keto diets work wonders for me. After a couple of days back on cycling in all my cravings are gone and I usually have to 'force' myself to eat my calorie requirements.

Its great for motivation too when I start a new 'diet' cycle since I can lose 5-8 lbs of water weight in a couple of days.


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## Ripper (Apr 1, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Unless you're in the infantry or track and field, there is absolutely no reason for anybody to run in a steady state.


Absolutely agree.

Now if someone could just convince the PT nazis.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

meson said:


> Yes, use a rake! (I can rake my yard faster than the neighbors can blow it) There are lots of things we can do every day like this. I walk up to the seventh floor of my building to work.


Absolutely. We've become so lazy we've forgotten we CAN do this.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> FS, have you ever looked in the ketogenic diet for cancer? When I was diagnosed with PCa nobody said a word to me about the fact that cancerous tumors run on glucose.


I am now. The materials I read show how ketogenic lowers cancer risk...and I wonder if things wouldn't have cropped up if I had stuck to it the past couple years. Can't do anything about the past, but I can do my part to try to keep things in remission. On a side note, it was reported recently by the Mayo Clinic that a woman was placed in complete remission of multiple myeloma...through a high dose measles vaccine.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

FormerSelf said:


> I am now. The materials I read show how ketogenic lowers cancer risk...and I wonder if things wouldn't have cropped up if I had stuck to it the past couple years. Can't do anything about the past, but I can do my part to try to keep things in remission. On a side note, it was reported recently by the Mayo Clinic that a woman was placed in complete remission of multiple myeloma...through a high dose measles vaccine.


I just saw that. Great stuff. 

Some of the first stuff I read on cancer pointed out that tumors have about 3X the insulin receptors as normal tissue. That got my attention immediately, and I'm an ignorant moron. Here's an interesting page with some interesting links. Here's some hard core diet advice based on Seyfried's work.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> I gotta say it, this thread has really inspired me...
> 
> ...to go finish that last slice of pizza.
> 
> ...


Come on, Gus. A Polka King has his image to consider...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Philat said:


> Come on, Gus. A Polka King has his image to consider...


Oh, very well... 

Brats and dunkel!!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Oh, very well...
> 
> Brats and dunkel!!!


Brats okay in vast quantities. Dunkel, less is more.


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## GIM003 (Feb 5, 2014)

Runs like Dog said:


> The average American farmer circa 1790 consumed 5-6000 calories a day. You need not only to move about you need to always be moving about. Throw away your noisy leaf blower and pick up a rake. Use a bow saw instead of a chainsaw (where possible). Dig that stump out don't call in the grinder. Spread that 10 cubic yards of mulch yourself. A bag of topsoil is 40lbs dry. Your garden could probably use 20 of them. Do it yourself.


Small things can add up. Take the stairs not the elevator.
Honestly, I really don't like exercising, but I do try to work physical activity into all parts of my life. At work, I walk up 7 flights for stairs from the parking lot to my office and I use the washrooms 3 or more floors up (more stairs).
More walks and bike rides with my wife (it's not exercise if we do it together).

Oh, and smaller servings, fewer seconds, less desert.

I have lost 20 pounds over the last year (and a bit) and am maintaining this (so far).

Okay, and I do a little bit of exercise-- I have abs for the first time in 20+ years (not quite a 6 pack, except if the 6 pack were in neoprene sleeves)


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## SoVeryLost (May 14, 2012)

So I picked up Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint 101 book today. Excited to delve into it. Going to try the primal out starting on Monday...have to go grocery shopping tomorrow. Took my son and niece on a mini getaway this weekend...ate out for every meal and just feel gross. Also haven't been to the gym since Thursday. Time to get back on track. It's amazing how eating junk can make you feel so different so quickly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Great thread SoVeryLost.
I have been careful about what I eat for a long time and pretty much avoided processed foods, so I ate a lot of whole grains. My weight kept increasing. I used to be very thin, but after my last child, at 35, my weight began to increase little by little. I tried exercising, but I kept injuring myself. It was frustrating. I had a whole host of problems from my feet to my shoulders. I felt like I was going backwards and it was terribly frustrating as I watched my weight continue to increase.
Finally I decided to lower my carbs and cut way back on grains. I found an exercise program that worked for me and stuck to it. I lost about 20 lbs. I am about 5’ 1” on a small frame. I could not seem to drop my weight below 120 lbs., which was stressing me out.
M chiropractor helped me with some of my problems and the exercise program I was using helped me a lot. I was using Callanetics Amazon.com: Callanetics (Official DVD): Callan Pinckney: Movies & TV . I love this program. I was also stretching, using hand weights and a treadmill.
Then I injured my shoulder lifting and moving something incorrectly. I actually injured both of my shoulders, but one was worse than the other. I suspended Callanetics and began doing exercises from the book Pain Free Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue: A Review | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World . I did the exercises to correct knees, hips and shoulders seven days a week for six months straight and it corrected not only my shoulders, but many other issues, including problems I had been having for 30 years. It was amazing. However, I had to get back to my other exercises to get back into shape, so now I do a program using some of the Callanetics exercises along with other exercises that work particular parts. This includes stretching, hand weights, planks, some exercises from Pain Free and a few other exercises I have thrown in. I have not reinjured myself and feel very good. I think I have found what works for me to keep me properly aligned and building strength. I work out at home. I have not gotten back on the treadmill, but would like to, because it increases my stamina. I do not run, but do fast walking.
Last year, I changed my diet by dropping all gluten and all cow’s milk dairy. Though I have not gone paleo, I think it is an excellent diet.
I do not eat any cow’s milk dairy due to sensitivity to it, but I do eat goat’s milk cheese and kefir and sheep’s milk cheese. Goat’s milk and sheep’s milk are much different in composition than cow’s milk. They are easier to digest and have other differences from cow’s milk.
No gluten at all, so the only grains I eat are rice and a tiny amount of organic corn usually in the form of corn pasta. I know that some oats are called gluten free, but it can have some gluten and still meet that standard and I just don’t want to take a chance since my doctor said “no gluten.”
I occasionally have some peanut butter.
I eat way too much fruit, which would explain why I still have a little layer of fat on my belly, which makes my abs less visible. Not that it matters since only my family sees my abs anyway when I am in my workout clothes or in my bikini sunbathing on the deck.
I drink at least one huge green smoothie every morning. I love them. They make me feel so good. I have several recipes on my website for green smoothies.
The only supplement I take is a natural vitamin C supplement along with collagen. But I’m not too sure about taking the collagen, so I will probably stop.
I do add some things to my smoothie, however: rose hip powder, maca root powder, green tea powder, turmeric powder and sometimes cocoa powder. The rose hips, maca, green tea and turmeric really don’t change the taste of the smoothie, but they have excellent properties that increase the nutrition of the smoothie.
I am 50 years old. I weigh around 112 lbs. and look better than I did at 100 lbs. due to the muscle I have gained.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Vitamin D, especially from the sun, looks more important every day.


I am learning more about vitamin D, but have heard that synthetic vitamin D is bad, so I have been sunbathing for the first time in my life. I make my own lotion using shea butter, coco butter, coconut oil and argan oil, but am thinking about making it with lanolin when I make a new batch.
I am very fair skinned and have avoided being out in the sun much due to burning easily. In the last couple of weeks, I have been like a rotisserie trying to get enough sun, but not get burned. I live in the Puget Sound area. We do not get a ton of sunshine. We have had pretty good weather, but I have been laying out in the clouds, rather than sun, on some days. I cannot tell you how good it feels to get some sun on my skin. I even bought a bikini, which I would NEVER wear in public, just to get as much sun on my body as possible. I am actually developing a tan. I am darker now than I normally am at the end of the summer.
Between the green smoothies, exercising and the sun, I am feeling very good right now. I’m going to try a hyperbaric therapy soon. Has anyone tried hyperbaric therapy? I have a friend who raves about it and she talked me into trying it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> I do add some things to my smoothie, however: rose hip powder, maca root powder, green tea powder, turmeric powder and sometimes cocoa powder. The rose hips, maca, green tea and turmeric really don’t change the taste of the smoothie, but they have excellent properties that increase the nutrition of the smoothie.
> I am 50 years old. I weigh around 112 lbs. and look better than I did at 100 lbs. due to the muscle I have gained.


Your program sounds good and custom tailored to suit you.

Glad you got something that works for you. 
That's a huge mistake lots of people make when they get into fitness, try stuff that doesn't give them results and they give up.
People's bodies are different and will respond differently.

But I really wanted to comment on the smoothie drinks you mention.
I think it's an excellent way of getting real vitamins and minerals into our bodies. 
My wife and I have them almost every morning.
Thankfully , I live in a tropical country where fresh fruits and veggies are available all year round.

Just wanted to add something that you might be interested in adding to your smoothies.
Papaya and or bitter melon.
They both have enzymes that help with digestion and regulate insulin even in people who suffer with diabetes.
You could probably research it and the benefits are awesome. Helps you body absurd nutrients even better.
Both can be bought at any Asian market.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> Your program sounds good and custom tailored to suit you.
> 
> Glad you got something that works for you.
> That's a huge mistake lots of people make when they get into fitness, try stuff that doesn't give them results and they give up.
> ...


Is there a problem with papaya being gmo in your area? I have heard that virtually all papaya is now gmo or has been contaminated by other gmo crops in the area. This is why I never eat papaya.
I had never heard of bitter melon before, but just looked it up. Looks interesting.
You are right that smoothies are a great way to add lots of nutrients to our diets. I am able to get some of my family to drink them with me daily. I eat a high nutrient diet and would like the rest of my family to do so as well.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Fozzy said:


> I'm going to Best Buy and getting a heavier mouse.


:rofl:


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> Is there a problem with papaya being gmo in your area? I have heard that virtually all papaya is now gmo or has been contaminated by other gmo crops in the area. This is why I never eat papaya.
> I had never heard of bitter melon before, but just looked it up. Looks interesting.
> You are right that smoothies are a great way to add lots of nutrients to our diets. I am able to get some of my family to drink them with me daily. I eat a high nutrient diet and would like the rest of my family to do so as well.


There are four distinct varieties of Papaya grown here , and they are mostly grown for expert into the EU markets.

The three varieties are F1 hybrids developed in China decades ago specially for our climate. They are Tanyung #1 & #2 and Red Lady.
They aren't resistant to any viruses , but they prolific producers and are bred to withstand the extreme weather patterns, extreme wet season to extreme dry season.
Most of ours are exported to the EU.
The EU doesn't allow GM fruits.

GM fruits are genetically modified to fight certain strains of viruses etc, but it is said that they upset the balance in nature. My guess is that science has chosen to tackle the problem that way because the other option, controlling the vector, requires the heavy use of pesticides which contains carcinogenic agents.
So it comes down to a moral issue.

_Lol, six million ways to die, choose one.."_

The GM Papaya you speak of are those grown mostly in Hawaii , which were developed sometime during the late 90's as a response to the deadly Papaya ring spot virus that devastated its production. I can't remember the cultivar , but most of US Papaya would naturally originate in Hawaii.

I used to export Papaya and Pineapples to the US a few years ago .


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I've seen some posts talking about the ketegenic diet and I am wondering if it can work for me. A little about my background. I work out and I would say I'm in good shape.....but, I was never ever really able to stick with healthy eating. Truth be to told this didn't matter until I was past 35. I still had a six pack and it didn't matter how many beers I drank or how poorly I ate. I could literally eat or drink whatever I wanted. 

Fast forward to today, lets just say this has changed. I don't have a gut but...my abs are only kind of showing. My question is if I jump on the ketegenic diet will I get my abs back. Also at what cost? My wife does not want a man with wimpy looking arms, will I lose muscle in addition to fat. I don't put on muscle very easily. The fact that I have broad shoulders makes me a look a lot stronger than I really am these days.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

whatever we do to lose or gain weight, keep in mind you need to do it the rest of your life, unless you want to gain the weight back. and worse.

I devour 2600 -3000 cals/per day and a good portion of it is junk food, so i've got to keep working out to keep at 165 lbs.
i won't give up the junk food, so it's got to go somewhere.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Here's my current regimen

mornings: walk 1 mile, then combination sprint/jog walk 1 mile, or
alternate walk/jog 3 miles or 40 min. elliptical @ about 128 heart rate.

afternoon: fast 2 mile walk, every day.

back in the day we trained 'fartlek', a Swedish training where you alternate speeds varying between jog/run/sprint. trying to readopt that to my current deal, except i'm old now.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> _Lol, six million ways to die, choose one.."_


I agree, but I am very against GMOs. They are very dangerous on so many levels.
I do understand that it's a problem when there are bugs, viruses and other things that make growing crops difficult, but GMOs have issues of their own that are far worse, imo. The cure is worse than the disease.


Caribbean Man said:


> The GM Papaya you speak of are those grown mostly in Hawaii , which were developed sometime during the late 90's as a response to the deadly Papaya ring spot virus that devastated its production. I can't remember the cultivar , but most of US Papaya would naturally originate in Hawaii.
> 
> I used to export Papaya and Pineapples to the US a few years ago .


Yes, I am in the US and GMOs are becoming more and more of a problem. I have not seen any organic papaya available, and I just assume it's GMO since that seems to be what is available to us now. Therefore, I just don't eat it at all.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

One week in to Paleo....8 pounds down.

Ok, so maybe there's something to it.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Fozzy said:


> One week in to Paleo....8 pounds down.
> 
> Ok, so maybe there's something to it.


Paleo is a really good diet.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ReformedHubby said:


> I've seen some posts talking about the ketegenic diet and I am wondering if it can work for me. A little about my background. I work out and I would say I'm in good shape.....but, I was never ever really able to stick with healthy eating. Truth be to told this didn't matter until I was past 35. I still had a six pack and it didn't matter how many beers I drank or how poorly I ate. I could literally eat or drink whatever I wanted.
> 
> Fast forward to today, lets just say this has changed. I don't have a gut but...my abs are only kind of showing. My question is if I jump on the ketegenic diet will I get my abs back. Also at what cost? My wife does not want a man with wimpy looking arms, will I lose muscle in addition to fat. I don't put on muscle very easily. The fact that I have broad shoulders makes me a look a lot stronger than I really am these days.


Pick up an e-book called "The Anabolic Diet" by Dr. Mauro DePasquale MD. It's a cyclic ketogenic diet that is designed to cut fat while preserving and even building muscle. It works.


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

so I recently started getting back into my fitness routine to gear up for summer and overall feel better. But there is something that occasionally happens and it bugs me, and I'm wondering if anyone knows why this happens... when you have uneven soreness.

Like right now, I did some arm exercises the other day both for my biceps and triceps. Today my biceps are both appropriately sore equally. But my triceps are not... one tricep is sore on one arm, and the other arm's tricep is not sore AT ALL. Did I do something wrong?! It is bugging the crap out of me... I know I did even reps for each, I mean only thing I can think of is if I absentmindedly grabbed different weights for each? I don't know. Why would this happen? I don't know if I should go back and do more reps for the unsore one or what. Blah. It's driving me nuts, actually.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Soooo I had not worked out since about Feb of this year. At the same time, moving from Asia to North America meant that my daily caloric intake went from ~2000cal/day to about ~3500cal/day. At the same time, my daily exercise routine is only consists of walking from bedroom to livingroom, to garage.

2 weeks ago, I couldn't fit into my jeans anymore. I also couldn't lift up the suitcase that I came to US in March anymore. Bodyweight was at 173lbs. Time to start training again.

Strength training consists of 4 training session / week, about 30min each session. Alternating squat / front squat; press / bench press; rotate in power cleans, chins, good mornings, and rows. Each day that I did not train on weights, I walked for about 45min wearing a 30lb sack.

Diet wise, I went to an extremely fiber rich diet. About 1.5lbs of veggies / fruits combined, about 2 slices of bread, and about 1lbs of meat per day. That's a lot of food: today, I ate 1.5onions, 2 bell peppers, and half head of white cabbage, 6 eggs plus 10ozs of minced beef. All in all, about 1700cals, about 30g of fibers. I am running at about 1000cal deficiet.

Past 2 weeks, I lost about 10lbs, and my strength recovered to about 70% of my peak back in November.

Yay!


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Adeline said:


> so I recently started getting back into my fitness routine to gear up for summer and overall feel better. But there is something that occasionally happens and it bugs me, and I'm wondering if anyone knows why this happens... when you have uneven soreness.
> 
> Like right now, I did some arm exercises the other day both for my biceps and triceps. Today my biceps are both appropriately sore equally. But my triceps are not... one tricep is sore on one arm, and the other arm's tricep is not sore AT ALL. Did I do something wrong?! It is bugging the crap out of me... I know I did even reps for each, I mean only thing I can think of is if I absentmindedly grabbed different weights for each? I don't know. Why would this happen? I don't know if I should go back and do more reps for the unsore one or what. Blah. It's driving me nuts, actually.



Very common. We are simply not symmetrical left/right. For an extreme case, look at left / right arm of a pro tennis player. There is no way in hell they are equal in strength, hence no way in hell they respond same to training.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

rubpy3 said:


> Soooo I had not worked out since about Feb of this year. At the same time, moving from Asia to North America meant that my daily caloric intake went from ~2000cal/day to about ~3500cal/day. At the same time, my daily exercise routine is only consists of walking from bedroom to livingroom, to garage.
> 
> 2 weeks ago, I couldn't fit into my jeans anymore. I also couldn't lift up the suitcase that I came to US in March anymore. Bodyweight was at 173lbs. Time to start training again.
> 
> ...


That's awesome. It doesn't take long to get back on track.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Adeline said:


> so I recently started getting back into my fitness routine to gear up for summer and overall feel better. But there is something that occasionally happens and it bugs me, and I'm wondering if anyone knows why this happens... when you have uneven soreness.
> 
> Like right now, I did some arm exercises the other day both for my biceps and triceps. Today my biceps are both appropriately sore equally. But my triceps are not... one tricep is sore on one arm, and the other arm's tricep is not sore AT ALL. Did I do something wrong?! It is bugging the crap out of me... I know I did even reps for each, I mean only thing I can think of is if I absentmindedly grabbed different weights for each? I don't know. Why would this happen? I don't know if I should go back and do more reps for the unsore one or what. Blah. It's driving me nuts, actually.


While there have been a lot of theories batted around in the last 45 years, nobody really even knows why we get sore AKA delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS). You can get tremendously sore from painting the house, but you won't build any muscle. and negative work tends to increase DOMS.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Was at the gym today and hit a new PR [ personal record.]

I maxed out on my deadlift @ 480 lbs for five reps.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Was at the gym today and hit a new PR [ personal record.]
> 
> I maxed out on my deadlift @ 480 lbs for five reps.


Outstanding C-Man. You're closing in on the big 500!


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I am on Day 7 of keeping my carbs under 20g a day. Kind of a pain in the butt making my stuff separate from everyone else. I take my lunch to work. There's been a few days where I came in under 10g just because I didn't feel like making something different for me after I cooked for everyone else. I have also started working out on our Total Body Gym. My arms are hating me.....lol


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The thread I never thought I would join. I had been looking at bicycles to get into it and finally cashed in a bunch of gift cards from work awards and so on and I'm the proud owner of an awesome Specialized bicycle. I live in a city renowned for its bike and walking trails so it's very helpful to have shaded trails for pedestrian / bicycle use only.

I'm 54 and about 30 lb overweight but have very strong legs and good endurance... Regardless after 2.5 miles today I feel I bench pressed a school bus.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Any other xfitters out there doing "Murph" for Memorial Day tomorrow?

For time: 
run 1 mile
100 pull ups
200 push ups
300 air squats
run 1 mile

Named in memory of Navy SEAL Michael Murphey
Michael P. Murphy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not looking forward to those pull ups . . . .


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

john117 said:


> The thread I never thought I would join. I had been looking at bicycles to get into it and finally cashed in a bunch of gift cards from work awards and so on and I'm the proud owner of an awesome Specialized bicycle. I live in a city renowned for its bike and walking trails so it's very helpful to have shaded trails for pedestrian / bicycle use only.
> 
> I'm 54 and about 30 lb overweight but have very strong legs and good endurance... Regardless after 2.5 miles today I feel I bench pressed a school bus.


I never knew Paducah was known for biking/walking trails. I've only been there for Joe's company Christmas parties and to take our son to Chuck E Cheese....lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I don't live in Paducah, but it's my imaginary hometown . I live within a few hours drive in a city that is well regarded for its paths.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

john117 said:


> I don't live in Paducah, but it's my imaginary hometown . I live within a few hours drive in a city that is well regarded for its paths.


Oh, gotcha...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heyyoo (May 24, 2014)

inspiring thread


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Outstanding C-Man. You're closing in on the big 500!


Thanks!

Sunday's are my back days, so I did it while doing giant sets inclusive of heavy rows , pull ups ,hammer strength pullover machine, and seated rows.

I warmed up first on the deadlifts, pyramiding up, and then did my working sets. Heavy volume.

But to be honest, yesterday my energy levels went through the roof when I tried a pre workout concoction I saw making the waves on a youtube channel.

Apparently, this guy came up with a formula , 3 - 4 tbsp of instant coffee , mixed with 1 cups of coca cola.

When I hit the gym , I usually do 10 - 15 mins cardio first , either on the step machine , treadmill or spinbike. Yesterday I did the bike. Within 5 mins my heart was racing and I was drenched...

That sh!t crazy.


Anyways , whilst I'm on the threshold of the holy grail of deadlifting, my bench press sucks, imo.
For almost six months I've been stuck on 250lbs flat. However, on the decline I can go heavier without effing up my rotator cuff.
I can do heavy 120 lb d-bells , no problem. Heavy cable flies, no problem. Dips with a 100 lb plate on the belt, no problem.

But I can't go heavy flat or incline, with a B-Bell on the bench press, and I don't get a proper stretch or contraction with light weights.
Maybe it's my biomechanics, I have long arms.
Last evening I looked at a vid on Youtube and the guy was suggesting contracting the traps to take out the front delts from the movement. [ I think my front delts are overcompensating ]
Dunno.

I suspect my form might be the problem.
Any suggestions?


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

CM, you're correct that a combination of rotator cuff injury and long arm body mechanics is probably working against your 300. I doubt it's your form. Since you can decline press, why not just make that your personal target? Let's face it, it makes for better pec development than flat benching anyway. Start micro loading. Have you ever tried "negative accentuated" training?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

heyyoo said:


> inspiring thread



It was inspiring until I had to ride the bicycle downhill on a 3 ft wide concrete trail. I have driven on an inch of ice on the road and that was nothing compared to today... 

But you're right it is inspiring. I'm just starting and it's awesome.


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## NotEZ (Sep 23, 2012)

L


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

NotEZ said:


> L


What do you mean by L?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## delirium (Apr 23, 2012)

Anyone else into running (as opposed to the gym) or use My Fitness Pal? 

I'm having good luck with these two things... the exercise more than anything else. It becomes very addicting. I started walking for 1-2 hours several times a week and it's gradually turned into running. I hate if it I can't get a daily run in now - good music is mandatory! I don't go to the gym because I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, but I know I'll need to add some strength training in at some point. 

I find if I try to restrict too much diet-wise (eat clean 100% of the time) I get discouraged and quit. I use MFP because if I don't pay attention I tend to eat out of boredom and could easily eat 3000 calories a day. I naturally make healthier choices if I'm aware of everything I'm eating.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

I'm starting to incorporate running into my HIIT program if that counts.

Myfitnesspal is what I currently use as well and find it very handy for looking up foods and tracking which is the most important for me.

Looking at "Lose It" app too just to compare.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> CM, you're correct that a combination of rotator cuff injury and long arm body mechanics is probably working against your 300. I doubt it's your form. Since you can decline press, why not just make that your personal target? Let's face it, it makes for better pec development than flat benching anyway. Start micro loading. Have you ever tried "negative accentuated" training?


I've heard about it , but never really tried it.

Sometime ago ,one of my training partners did something that gave my pecs a different feel. He put me on the smith machine , loaded it with medium weight ,and while I was pressing upward he was applying added resistance to the bar ,pushing it down. Basically it took about 12 - 15 secs to complete the positive .
Did that for three reps , then completed the set with 12 " normal " reps.
It definitely gave me a pump, but it's brutal.

I've done micro loading with 2.5 lbs plates , lol, that a long , slow process , but it works .


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I've heard about it , but never really tried it.
> 
> Sometime ago ,one of my training partners did something that gave my pecs a different feel. He put me on the smith machine , loaded it with medium weight ,and while I was pressing upward he was applying added resistance to the bar ,pushing it down. Basically it took about 12 - 15 secs to complete the positive .
> Did that for three reps , then completed the set with 12 " normal " reps.
> ...


I love the 2.5 lbs plates overloading process. They even have little 1 lbs magnetic weights you can use to load in a smaller increment.


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## NotEZ (Sep 23, 2012)

*Re: Re: Getting and Staying Fit*



treyvion said:


> What do you mean by L?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pocket posted... dont know how to delete posts on tapatalk lol


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I've had the most success with group exercise classes at the gym. I'll work out harder and more consistently if an instructor is telling me what to do. If I do a solitary activity like lift weights, running, biking, swimming, etc., I find it hard to stay motivated. I tend to cut the workout short, not work as hard, and not go as often. But in a supervised environment, I can turn off my brain and just do what the instructor says. Next thing I know, an hour has gone by and I'm drenched in sweat.

Unless a beginner has a strong desire to do a particular activity, I would advice them to try group classes. They will have an instructor telling them what to do with the proper form. If they have questions, they'll have someone to ask. They will learn how to exercise and build a strong core, which will then allow them to confidently try other activities.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I've heard about it , but never really tried it.
> 
> Sometime ago ,one of my training partners did something that gave my pecs a different feel. He put me on the smith machine , loaded it with medium weight ,and while I was pressing upward he was applying added resistance to the bar ,pushing it down. Basically it took about 12 - 15 secs to complete the positive .
> Did that for three reps , then completed the set with 12 " normal " reps.
> ...


I don't remember if you showed a pic, but from your description you have sculpted your physique out pretty well. Have you ever gotten to a point where everything is right around the right size, and you don't need even a little bit of extra size anywhere, and maybe just increased hardness or seperation?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Has anyone had any success in encouraging their spouse to exercise? 

My husband always has an excuse for why he doesn't do much(tired, says he's "old"  - in his 30s, doesn't have time, etc.). The last time he tried to go jogging, he said there were dogs that were running around and he didn't want to get chased by them(I think it's bs). He isn't super overweight or anything(average weight), but he's definitely out of shape. I would really love for him to exercise more for his health(blood pressure and so on), but he never seems motivated. I don't know how to get him to get moving. We occasionally go hiking together as a family, but I have to really push him to do it and be the one who plans it out. I like being active and go on walks often, but when my husband gets home from work, he says he only wants to relax. 

Anyone have ideas to motivate their spouse to exercise?


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I have been doing a hodge podge of stuff to get back to my pre-pregnancy weight since Oct 2013. I got started eating healthier while I was pregnant. I went to visit a nutrionist during pregnancy and one post partum visit just to make sure I followed a healthy diet for nursing.

I've been back at my pre-pregnancy weight for about a month or two. I was hitting the gym before I got pregnant and all during pregnancy up until about 2 weeks before giving birth. Ironically, although I'm more toned, I have not been back to the gym since giving birth (mainly because we moved).

Here is my hodge podge:

-No. 1 is making sure I eat healthy and balanced enough for breast feeding. 
- Cut out sodas and empty sugary calories for the most part (maybe a soda every other weeks or so, desert twice a week).
-More veggies, less meat. Red meat maybe once or twice a month.
-4 small meals during the day, 1 regular meal.
-Very little bread.
-Lots of salads, at least 4 times a week salad is a main meal.
- only healthy snacks; no chips, cookies, etc. 

My exercise hodge podge:

-Push ups. Yep! I've been doing them for about 7 months. I have no idea how many per day because I do them periodically during the day when I'm on the floor with baby on her playmat. Maybe 3 times a day? 
- sit ups
- pilates
- arm exercises with a pair of hand weights that my H has. They use to be too heavy but now, not so much. I do these 2 or 3 times a day also.
-kegels
-treadmill interval training
-leg lifts

That's about it. I really do want to get back in a gym for weight training but my husband hasn't found one he likes yet. He is using the gym at his office which he says really sucks but it must be sufficient because he hasn't lost any definition at all.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Has anyone had any success in encouraging their spouse to exercise?
> 
> My husband always has an excuse for why he doesn't do much(tired, says he's "old"  - in his 30s, doesn't have time, etc.). The last time he tried to go jogging, he said there were dogs that were running around and he didn't want to get chased by them(I think it's bs). He isn't super overweight or anything(average weight), but he's definitely out of shape. I would really love for him to exercise more for his health(blood pressure and so on), but he never seems motivated. I don't know how to get him to get moving. We occasionally go hiking together as a family, but I have to really push him to do it and be the one who plans it out. I like being active and go on walks often, but when my husband gets home from work, he says he only wants to relax.
> 
> Anyone have ideas to motivate their spouse to exercise?


One thing we do is periodically get down on the floor and do sets of different exercises competitively. Watching the game, drop and do some push ups during a commercial. Or some arm exercises. Park far away from your destination at the mall, grocery, etc. One of the things we do a lot is park all the way at the opposite end of the store we want to go to if it is a strip mall or something and walk. We take turns carrying the baby instead of using the stroller (although your son may be too big for that now?)

Take a stroll with baby in carriage up a hill. Tell him baby needs some sun (don't we all).

We have the most fun with seeing who can outdo the other -- although he thoroughly beats me every time and has not mercy that I'm a woman. LOL!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> I have been doing a hodge podge of stuff to get back to my pre-pregnancy weight since Oct 2013. I got started eating healthier while I was pregnant. I went to visit a nutrionist during pregnancy and one post partum visit just to make sure I followed a healthy diet for nursing.
> 
> I've been back at my pre-pregnancy weight for about a month or two. I was hitting the gym before I got pregnant and all during pregnancy up until about 2 weeks before giving birth. Ironically, although I'm more toned, I have not been back to the gym since giving birth (mainly because we moved).
> 
> ...



To me your " hodge podge " sounds excellent and functional.

I've been trying for ages to teach my wife how to do push ups. She's afraid when she goes down, she wouldn't be able to get back up , lol.

I'll give you a tip with the push ups.

What type of dummbells do you have ,are they the round type or the hexagonal type?

If they are the hex type , then you can use them to assist you with push ups and save your wrist from the discomfort associated with doing push ups..
Push up can be uncomfortable on your wrists.

Just clench the dumbbells in your hands , and instead of placing your hands flat on the floor, use the dumbbells , like in this pic.



The advantage of using a dumbbell is that you can place it in different positions to work different parts of your chest , triceps , shoulders , and upper torso.

Have you ever tried doing push ups with your feet slightly elevated?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

treyvion said:


> I don't remember if you showed a pic, but from your description you have sculpted your physique out pretty well. Have you ever gotten to a point where everything is right around the right size, and you don't need even a little bit of extra size anywhere, and maybe just increased hardness or seperation?


Well I have posted my pics here already.

People in real life tell me I have a good physique.
But I always see " weak points."

Bodybuilding is mostly about gaining symmetry in the way your body looks. For instance , I think my rear delts and traps are a bit underdeveloped, my training partners also tell me that, so I'm trying to bring them up to speed.

Lol, but my wife tells me that she love my shoulders!

so sometimes other people won't see but to the trained eye, they can spot where the symmetry s lacking.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Bodybuilding is mostly about gaining symmetry in the way your body looks. For instance , I think my rear delts and traps are a bit underdeveloped, my training partners also tell me that, so I'm trying to bring them up to speed.


Traps are incredible for stabilizing the shoulder girdle, and helps with the last phase of all heavy pulls. By stabilizing the shoulders, you'll quickly see improvements carried over your other lifts as well: most notably the press. If you O-lift, your 3rd pull will dramatically increase in efficiency as well.

Traps are easy to develop, but you gotta hit it with really heavy weights. Since so many other depends on traps for stabilization, I work it heavy once a week, on the last day of training, making sure to give at least 2 days for recovery.

Traps are pretty underdeveloped for most people, so they are easily developed via a linear progression of exercises such as BARbell shrugs, clean high pulls, and snatch high pulls.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> What type of dummbells do you have ,are they the round type or the hexagonal type?
> 
> If they are the hex type , then you can use them to assist you with push ups and save your wrist from the discomfort associated with doing push ups..
> Push up can be uncomfortable on your wrists.
> ...


Thanks for these tips. I will give this a try. I have to be careful with push-ups due to my wrists bothering me if I do too many. 
Why would you elevate your feet and how high?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

rubpy3 said:


> Traps are incredible for stabilizing the shoulder girdle, and helps with the last phase of all heavy pulls. By stabilizing the shoulders, you'll quickly see improvements carried over your other lifts as well: most notably the press. If you O-lift, your 3rd pull will dramatically increase in efficiency as well.
> 
> Traps are easy to develop, but you gotta hit it with really heavy weights. Since so many other depends on traps for stabilization, I work it heavy once a week, on the last day of training, making sure to give at least 2 days for recovery.
> 
> Traps are pretty underdeveloped for most people, so they are easily developed via a linear progression of exercises such as BARbell shrugs, clean high pulls, and snatch high pulls.


Does anyone know of a way to work traps without putting a compressive load on the spine? Right now I'm not specifically working traps at all.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> Thanks for these tips. I will give this a try. I have to be careful with push-ups due to my wrists bothering me if I do too many.
> Why would you elevate your feet and how high?


Raising your feet shifts more of your body weight onto your arms.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Nucking Futs said:


> Raising your feet shifts more of your body weight onto your arms.


But wouldn't that make the push-up more difficult and harder on my wrists?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> Thanks for these tips. I will give this a try. I have to be careful with push-ups due to my wrists bothering me if I do too many.
> Why would you elevate your feet and how high?


Elevating your feet and spacing your arms closer together , like about 12" apart would work the tricep muscle in your arms.

Elevating your feet and spacing your arms wider , like about 24" or more would work your upper chest , shoulders etc.

When your feet is elevated , you must tuck in your abs , and keep your body tight ,in order to stabilize your torso. Somewhat like when you're doing planks exercises.
So it helps.

If you like , you can start by elevating your feet just 12" , perhaps on a plastic 1gallon paint bucket , or a short footstool .


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Thanks for the explanation.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> Does anyone know of a way to work traps without putting a compressive load on the spine? Right now I'm not specifically working traps at all.


Google " reverse dumbbell shrugs " and that might help.

Using dumbbells instead of the barbell helps isolate the left and right side of the traps without loading the spine.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Does anyone know of a way to work traps without putting a compressive load on the spine? Right now I'm not specifically working traps at all.


I don't think that a dedicated trap training is really necessary for someone undergoing normal training: notice that in the last post I emphasized the functional gains of having stronger trap, and using a stronger trap to move beyond a sticking point in other major exercises.

Several months ago, I was stuck on my cleans due to lack of equipments. I only had a rusty bent barbell, iron plates, and an old smith machine. I focused on press and smith machine shrugs for about 3 weeks (6 training sessions). My press did not deterioriate, my 3 rep shrug increased by 35kg. These the only weight training that I did during those 3 weeks. 3 weeks later I attempted a max single rep clean, and turned out I increased my own PR by 10kg. I would not have shrugged if I were in my north american gym.

That being said, if you do your deadlift and pulls diligently, your traps will grow more or less in proportion to the rest of your body. Given proper form, I think that your traps maybe underdeveloped if: your DL < squat (unless you are already deadlifting 400lbs, in which case you don't need to listen to me), ir your clean < 60% of your squat, or if your snatch < 50% of your squat.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Again, addendum to above. 

I would work on shrugs more often if my time permits. I'm not too worried about spine compression, as it's mostly abs doing the stabilization anyway.

I can go all-out in gym for about 30~45min, afterwhich I quickly lose steam and efficiency. I work out Mon/Tue, Thur/Fri 4 days a week, each session no more than about 45min. I do about 2 exercises on Mon/Thur (squat / press), and about rotate 3 on Tue / Fri (C+J, S, good mornings, RDL deadlifts, weighted chins / dips).

I would make Saturday a 10min shrugs only day.. but I'm not disciplined enough to make that come true.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rubpy3 said:


> Again, addendum to above.
> 
> I would work on shrugs more often if my time permits. I'm not too worried about spine compression, as it's mostly abs doing the stabilization anyway.
> 
> ...


I do hang cleans and clean & press , and deadlift way above 400 lbs.
But my traps and rhomboids are stubborn. They don't respond to low reps.

The only time I actually " feel" anything in my traps is when I do really high rep range with around 70% of my 1RM. 

Recently I started doing between 30 - 40 reps reverse dumbbell shrugs and my traps has started responding.
I also tried a version of the seated cable row , with a wide grip bar . I basically shrug the weight by scapula retractions using high reps and squeezing my rhomboids.
Only then I " feel" it.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Google " reverse dumbbell shrugs " and that might help.
> 
> Using dumbbells instead of the barbell helps isolate the left and right side of the traps without loading the spine.


I googled it but it appears to be shrugs with the weight behind the back. Since I would be standing and holding weight in my hands it would be putting a compressive force on my spine. 

I was told by my doctor after my last back operation that I can lift no more than 35 lbs. I chose to interpret that as meaning that I can lift no more than 35 lbs in a manner that would put a downward pressure on my spine since I'm missing a disk and the warning was to keep the diskless space between the vertebra from collapsing. I could do shrugs one side at a time with a 35 lb dumbbell but I don't think that little weight is going to do me much good.

I did find one page that shows scapular pullups are sometimes called reverse shrugs and work the traps. I'm going to try it.

ETA: This looks even better. Body weight exercise but that's way more than 35 lbs!


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> I do hang cleans and clean & press , and deadlift way above 400 lbs.
> But my traps and rhomboids are stubborn. They don't respond to low reps.
> 
> The only time I actually " feel" anything in my traps is when I do really high rep range with around 70% of my 1RM.
> ...



By the sounds of it, once-a-week heavy barbell shrugs is the prescription you need. If you are DL >400lbs, dumbbells / machines is not going to give you the intensity needed to stimulate growth.

I mean really heavy shrugs. Bill Starr had his Hopkins footballers shrugging with 6 plates on each side, for a total of 585lbs.



> Of course, how much weight you use on the shrugs depends on your current level of strength, but regardless of where you are, you must overload the pulling muscles. The goal I set for my athletes at Hopkins was to be able to shrug with a clean grip, the bar plus six 45-lb, plates on each side, 585 lbs. Nearly everyone of them achieved that goal. And what they really liked about being able to handle that much weight was when they went home and trained at the local gym. Naturally, no one there was even coming close to shrugging that much so their stock went skyhigh among their friends and fellow lifters.


 - Bill Starr, Stronger Traps

Starting Strength: Article


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rubpy3 said:


> By the sounds of it, once-a-week heavy barbell shrugs is the prescription you need. If you are DL >400lbs, dumbbells / machines is not going to give you the intensity needed to stimulate growth.
> 
> *I mean really heavy shrugs. Bill Starr had his Hopkins footballers shrugging with 6 plates on each side, for a total of 585lbs.*
> 
> ...


Interesting that you should mention Bill Starr. I started off training with a derivitive of his " Mad Cow " 5 x 5 template.
It was called " stronglifts 5 x 5."
The guy responsible for it was a Belgian called Mehdi.

But I over the years I plateaued with it and experimented with different types of templates like German Volume and so forth.

However, whenever I try very heavy shrugs, I hardly get a full ROM. I'm presently trying with the trap bar shrugs and farmer's walk with the trap bar.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Interesting that you should mention Bill Starr. I started off training with a derivitive of his " Mad Cow " 5 x 5 template.
> It was called " stronglifts 5 x 5."
> The guy responsible for it was a Belgian called Mehdi.
> 
> ...


Yeah, those linear progressions give you good results for couple of months, than you hit the wall hard. My squats stalled at 260 hard during linear progression and I ended up tearing my abdominal muscles.

You probably already know that to follow linear progression successfully the starting weight needs to be really low. So if you can't hit the full ROM with heavy shrugs, why not back off weights until you get to a weight that you can handle, than use LP to add 10lbs per workout until you overshoot desired goal? I think that's the essence of the conjugate method, you find the weakest link in the chain and linear progression the weak link for a couple of weeks. Once you can do 500lbs for 3 reps, you can probably rep out 400lbs easily and really get a nice hypertrophy.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

If anyone cares:

After about 6 years of very sporadic fitness activities - I remained in decent shape but wasn't terribly dedicated to it - I joined a competitive sports team a year and a half ago. 

And this is my biggest advice to anyone trying to get in shape/get in better shape/make gainz: COMPETE. It could be against yourself or other people, but have a definite, definable goal in your mind. Go after that goal. Make a training program to reach that goal. When you reach it, go after a new one.

Say: I will increase my bench by 10 lbs in 8 weeks. I will drop my 40 time by 0.3 in 8 weeks. Rinse, wash, repeat. 


I was 28 and competing against 18-23 year olds. It spurred me to do everything I could to overcome by bum shoulders and knees, to attack the weight room and the track, to really *get after it*. Concrete goals.

The specifics of what I did/am doing: 

Sprints - this is what I'm competing in, so it's obviously going to be my cornerstone. But sprints have a number of benefits for nearly any fitness goal. You're burning way more fat than with steady-state cardio, you're jacking up your testosterone production, you're getting muscle gains as a byproduct. 


Plyometrics - Same as sprints.

Lifting - I honestly only do 3 lifts on a regular basis: bench press (twice a week), squat (once a week), deadlift (once a week). This is more than enough. Lift heavy, lift with clear goals (I'm going to boost my squat max by 40 lbs, etc), and stay on your program.

If anyone's interested in nitty-gritty details, message me! I made a total transformation and have never felt better. I'm stronger, faster, and more confident than I've ever been.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> To me your " hodge podge " sounds excellent and functional.
> 
> I've been trying for ages to teach my wife how to do push ups. She's afraid when she goes down, she wouldn't be able to get back up , lol.
> 
> ...


CM, thanks for the tip! My husband had been telling me to try different hand positions to work other muscles. I do try but some are so much harder especially the ones with hands close in. I showed him your post and he said although he doesn't use them, he has seen others use them but it just never occurred to him to tell me to try that. He does all kinds of push ups including one hands and clapping mid air but then he has been doing them since high school.

Anyway I tried it this morning and it works! Although still hard for me to do, I feel less like I'm straining something and more like Im working the muscles that should be worked. 

I tried elevating my feet too, I thought that as suppose to be easier! LOL!


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

delirium said:


> Anyone else into running (as opposed to the gym) or use My Fitness Pal?
> 
> I'm having good luck with these two things... the exercise more than anything else. It becomes very addicting. I started walking for 1-2 hours several times a week and it's gradually turned into running. I hate if it I can't get a daily run in now - good music is mandatory! I don't go to the gym because I have no idea what the hell I'm doing, but I know I'll need to add some strength training in at some point.
> 
> I find if I try to restrict too much diet-wise (eat clean 100% of the time) I get discouraged and quit. I use MFP because if I don't pay attention I tend to eat out of boredom and could easily eat 3000 calories a day. I naturally make healthier choices if I'm aware of everything I'm eating.


I run and use the gym - weights three times a week and am doing a half marathon training programme that mixes endurance training with sprints and shorter runs

The running programmes I use are brilliant because they aren't daunting at all. I wasn't much of a long distance runner before but in 10 weeks I've built up to doing long runs of over 10 miles. Make sure you have decent shoes - all of the tweaks and pains I had with my old ones have disappeared now I have insoles moulded to my feet - and try and get some strength training in

I use Youtube to look at technique for strength training exercises and am totally comfortable using the free weight area at the gym now (believe me, half the guys in there have no clue what they are doing either ha ha)

Diet is the key though. I eat clean most of the time but no issue with indulging every now and again - I'm not one for getting fanatical about food because it has to be sustainable. It's easier for me because I don't have to cook family meals so can eat whatever the hell I like. Do your food prep for a few days at a time and it all becomes much easier


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Found something interesting online: twinkie diet. By limiting the calories to 1800cals per day, all coming from sweet cakes that are found in 7/11, a professor in nutritional science loses 27lbs in 2 months.

Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds - CNN.com


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Here's some new fitness toys I got from home depot: chains!

Each segment of the chain is exactly 1.3lbs, for a combined total of 2.6lbs. They will be used to microload my press.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> One thing we do is periodically get down on the floor and do sets of different exercises competitively. Watching the game, drop and do some push ups during a commercial. Or some arm exercises. Park far away from your destination at the mall, grocery, etc. One of the things we do a lot is park all the way at the opposite end of the store we want to go to if it is a strip mall or something and walk. We take turns carrying the baby instead of using the stroller (although your son may be too big for that now?)
> 
> Take a stroll with baby in carriage up a hill. Tell him baby needs some sun (don't we all).
> 
> We have the most fun with seeing who can outdo the other -- although he thoroughly beats me every time and has not mercy that I'm a woman. LOL!


We do walk a lot, parking far away. I am just trying to have him do more than just that, since that alone won't really get him back into shape. We do put my son in the carrier a lot, instead of using the stroller, but typically it's me who wears him(while it should be my husband!). The only time he is the one who wears our son consistently is when we go hiking, which is not often. He's not too big to be carried(be 1 this month! ah). 

I do like the competition with exercises idea. I'm not sure if my husband would be up for it, but we'll see. 

I have kept myself in shape, lost all pregnancy weight in under 4 months. I just want my husband to put more value in being in shape, too.


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## I'll make tea (Oct 11, 2013)

There also is a very good fitness thread on the off topic board.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> I googled it but it appears to be shrugs with the weight behind the back. Since I would be standing and holding weight in my hands it would be putting a compressive force on my spine.
> 
> 
> 
> ETA: This looks even better. Body weight exercise but that's way more than 35 lbs!



Yes.

I think dip shrugs ( in the youtube vid) might be a good alternative. But I guess it depends on your fitness level.
The average person usually find it difficult to dip their own bodyweight.

Another alternate that doesn't compress the spine is seated cable shrugs. I'll try to link it here ;

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UBzOiXxCpAk

I do it sometimes at the end of my shoulder workouts.

Hope that link works!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rubpy3 said:


> Here's some new fitness toys I got from home depot: chains!
> 
> Each segment of the chain is exactly 1.3lbs, for a combined total of 2.6lbs. They will be used to microload my press.



Never used it before but I've seen competitive power lifters at the gym using it.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes.
> 
> I think dip shrugs ( in the youtube vid) might be a good alternative. But I guess it depends on your fitness level.
> The average person usually find it difficult to dip their own bodyweight.
> ...


I'm doing the dip shrugs on the seated dip machine. Once I finish my dips I just stand up and do shrugs. I'm fortunate that my height is about perfect to do this on this particular machine. I doubt I could do even one full body weight, I'm only up to 165 on that machine so far.

I watched that video and the guy was pointing out that you get the same range of motion in the back just doing the shrugs as you would doing the seated cable row, so wouldn't the opposite apply? Wouldn't I get the same benefit from the seated cable row as well as working my arms?


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Never used it before but I've seen competitive power lifters at the gym using it.


Powerlifters use chains to dynamically change the weight on barbell as they complete a lift - little added weight at bottom position, and almost 100lbs heavier nearing the top. Muscles work hard to accelerate the bar at bottom, but the work gets easier nearing the top when you are no longer accelerating the bar, only keeping it a constant speed upward. By dynamically increasing the weight at the top, you force the muscles to exert more force even at the top of lifts. This is done using chains or bands. This is a highly advanced technique. Even if I were to train without any interruptions, it would be at least a year or two before needing to use this technique to elicit gains.

All I am doing is tying up the ends of the chains and hanging them from the end of barbell, so I can increase the weight on the barbell in smaller increments. The smallest plate at my gym is 2.5lbs, which means the smallest weight increment is 5lbs. That's too much jump for lifts like press. On Monday I do 7 sets of 3, and on Thursdays I try to get a new PR, 2.5lbs over previous week. I add 10lbs on press per month. I got up to bodyweight press last year. 

Lost all the gains after D-day, have to pretty much start over.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I used to love red meat. Steak and pork chops, yum! Now beef feels heavy and difficult to digest. Just skip it most of the time. Fish seems a healthier food.

I don't buy ice cream or cheese much anymore.

A few years ago I was doing 3k open water races. The training put on muscles everywhere. Need to sign up again.

D almost19 is going to start strength training this summer. She doesn't worry about looking muscular. She knows that's a myth.

This evening I am going to fetch a wheel barrow of fertilizer from the riding stable across the road. It takes an hour. Shovelling is a combo of weight and aerobic.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> I used to love red meat. Steak and pork chops, yum! Now beef feels heavy and difficult to digest. Just skip it most of the time. Fish seems a healthier food.
> 
> I don't buy ice cream or cheese much anymore.
> 
> ...


Did the swimming slim you anywhere? You know the body gets stronger where it needs to and slimmer where it needs to when you do certain sports. I was wondering if perhaps the waist became more streamlined.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> Has anyone had any success in encouraging their spouse to exercise?


Forget about a spouse, has anyone ever had success getting anyone else into exercise? That has to be one of the hardest things to do. I think you can force someone to do an activity every once in a while, but it's very hard to get them to want to exercise on a regular basis.

One thing that doesn't work is to try to force them. First, they'll resist because they're being forced to do it. Second, they won't take ownership of their exercise. It will be something that someone else makes them do. To be useful, exercise should be something done on a regular basis. For that to happen, they themselves need to want to have the benefits of exercise. 

So then, the challenge is to get him to want to exercise. One way to do that is to have him see people who are enjoying exercise. Try to get involved with the running scene in your area. Volunteer for a race or sign up for one yourself. Generally, the people involved with the race enjoy exercise. Consider signing up with a running training group. Find one which is more friendly than hardcore. When he comes to these events and sees everyone having a good time, he may be more interested in getting involved. Plus, all types of body shapes race. He may look at the runners and realize that he can do it too.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Getting people to exercise is easier when they make constant improvements and can see the progress. Moreover, if they obtain real-life improvements to their own quality of life, they will be motivated to go after this natural high.

A friend of mine is in his early 30s, obese, with diabetes. Several years back, I convinced him to start a high intensity training program with me. Within a month, he obtained noticeable improvements to his blood measurements, to the verge of getting off medications. He felt more energetic, he can run up an down stairs all day without feeling winded. His weight training went from curling 20lb dumbbbells for an hour to deadlifting 225lb and squatting 185. He could pick up his new born daughter, toss her in air, and catch her again.

Let me tell you, this guy was excited to go into the gym every single day, motivated by the increase in quality of his own life.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm doing the dip shrugs on the seated dip machine. Once I finish my dips I just stand up and do shrugs. I'm fortunate that my height is about perfect to do this on this particular machine. I doubt I could do even one full body weight, I'm only up to 165 on that machine so far.
> 
> *I watched that video and the guy was pointing out that you get the same range of motion in the back just doing the shrugs as you would doing the seated cable row, so wouldn't the opposite apply? Wouldn't I get the same benefit from the seated cable row as well as working my arms?*



Yes you get the same ROM on the seated cable shrug as you would on the rows.
But here's the difference, the first part of a seated cable row is the shrug in which you contract your traps and rhomboids. Then your lats as you begin to pull with your elbow.
So doing the rows would eventually take the emphasis off the traps and rhomboids and involve the lats and teres minor etc.

Just shrugging , which is essentially the first part of the move will keep the tension on the traps and rhomboids alone.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rubpy3 said:


> Powerlifters use chains to dynamically change the weight on barbell as they complete a lift - little added weight at bottom position, and almost 100lbs heavier nearing the top. Muscles work hard to accelerate the bar at bottom, but the work gets easier nearing the top when you are no longer accelerating the bar, only keeping it a constant speed upward. By dynamically increasing the weight at the top, you force the muscles to exert more force even at the top of lifts. This is done using chains or bands. This is a highly advanced technique. Even if I were to train without any interruptions, it would be at least a year or two before needing to use this technique to elicit gains.
> 
> All I am doing is tying up the ends of the chains and hanging them from the end of barbell, so I can increase the weight on the barbell in smaller increments. The smallest plate at my gym is 2.5lbs, which means the smallest weight increment is 5lbs. That's too much jump for lifts like press. On Monday I do 7 sets of 3, and on Thursdays I try to get a new PR, 2.5lbs over previous week. I add 10lbs on press per month. I got up to bodyweight press last year.
> *
> Lost all the gains after D-day, have to pretty much start over.*



Sorry to hear about your D-Day.


But your program of linear progression sounds great. You have already hit your bodyweight which is excellent on the press.

Is that overhead press or bench press.

If it is overhead press then that's the strongman standard. One should be able to overhead press one's own bodyweight.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes you get the same ROM on the seated cable shrug as you would on the rows.
> But here's the difference, the first part of a seated cable row is the shrug in which you contract your traps and rhomboids. Then your lats as you begin to pull with your elbow.
> So doing the rows would eventually take the emphasis off the traps and rhomboids and involve the lats and teres minor etc.
> 
> Just shrugging , which is essentially the first part of the move will keep the tension on the lats and rhomboids alone.


Well that makes sense.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Just as an update on my earlier post--finally broke through my plateau (five pounds ago), still dropping...

Dinner last night--two hamburger patties with green chiles and an avocado, plus a green smoothie before bed. If only I'd known you could actually eat good food and still lose weight....


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Nucking Futs said:


> Well that makes sense.


I made a typographical error.

I posted:

_" just shrugging , which is essentially the first part of the move will keep the tension on the* lats* and rhomboids alone..."_

What I really meant was this;

_" Just shrugging , which is essentially the first part of the move will keep the tension on the *TRAPS* and rhomboids alone..."_

My apology.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

wilson said:


> Forget about a spouse, has anyone ever had success getting anyone else into exercise? That has to be one of the hardest things to do. I think you can force someone to do an activity every once in a while, but it's very hard to get them to want to exercise on a regular basis.
> 
> One thing that doesn't work is to try to force them. First, they'll resist because they're being forced to do it. Second, they won't take ownership of their exercise. It will be something that someone else makes them do. To be useful, exercise should be something done on a regular basis. For that to happen, they themselves need to want to have the benefits of exercise.
> 
> So then, the challenge is to get him to want to exercise. One way to do that is to have him see people who are enjoying exercise. Try to get involved with the running scene in your area. Volunteer for a race or sign up for one yourself. Generally, the people involved with the race enjoy exercise. Consider signing up with a running training group. Find one which is more friendly than hardcore. When he comes to these events and sees everyone having a good time, he may be more interested in getting involved. Plus, all types of body shapes race. He may look at the runners and realize that he can do it too.


I've learned this lesson too - although I don't see it as my challenge to get him to want to exercise or eat differently. I'm strength training and eating clean for myself. This is something I am motivated with. I dig observing my own strength and fitness slowly increasing week by week. And I have the visual of myself one day doing chin-ups. 

I've extended the invitation for my husband to join me but it's not his bag. There's opportunity for him to be included if he wishes. While the way I eat is changing, it hasn't really effected him beyond the evening dinner where white rice and breads have been switched with quinoa, brown rice or sweet potato. I'm pretty much eating protein and fat with each meal and adding in complex carbohydrates as needed. I'm also opting for gluten-free as much as possible. He still eats bread and his usual foods. Sometimes he is choosing healthier options but all-in-all, he's content with doing what he is doing. 

If we're out to dinner, I'm not particularly restrictive as I feel there's a balance to enjoying food as celebration and being social.

I'll admit that in the past, I used to think it was hard if we weren't making these changes together. Really though, they were just excuses on my part. It's nice to have his encouragement though. Last week I came out of the gym, ready to walk 30mins home and he'd walked there with the dogs to meet me. Loved that


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Did the swimming slim you anywhere? You know the body gets stronger where it needs to and slimmer where it needs to when you do certain sports. I was wondering if perhaps the waist became more streamlined.


There are two different ways to move through the water. Freestyle/crawl and backstroke are powered by hip rotation. Butterfly and breaststroke require undulation. So different muscles are used more. Butterfly sprinters have powerful shoulders.

Swimming improves core body strength. So stomach muscles definitely become stronger.

Slimness around the waist requires that the person not consume calories that are deposited around the waist for men and thighs and buttocks on women.

Two little known sports underwater rugby and underwater hockey.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> I made a typographical error.
> 
> I posted:
> 
> ...


We knew what you meant.

Of course, these days isolations are "bad" and compounds are "good."


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Thinking more on this thread, I like that my husband is somewhat supportive and is open to hearing details of a new exercise I'm learning. I recently did the glute ham raise machine for the first time and admittedly carried on like a pork-chop during the first set as it felt really unnatural to be in that position; to push forward and over, while feeling high up. Sometimes I'm a ridiculous person. I was collected again by the 2nd set. And it was hard! I showed hubs clips of what I was doing.... and loved when he commented, "Wow, that's some serious Lara Croft business!" I dig that he takes enough of an interest in something he's not particularly interested in. 

How To Perform Glute Ham Raises - Technique WOD 96 - YouTube

Glute Ham Raise - Erin Stern - YouTube


A friend told me that she hates when her husband gets on a health-kick because even though he's doing it for himself, it makes her feel like he is judging what she is doing and that affects how she reacts to him with his goals. Making changes is not always easy as a couple.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> Thinking more on this thread, I like that my husband is somewhat supportive and is open to hearing details of a new exercise I'm learning. I recently did the glute ham raise machine for the first time and admittedly carried on like a pork-chop during the first set as it felt really unnatural to be in that position; to push forward and over, while feeling high up. Sometimes I'm a ridiculous person. I was collected again by the 2nd set. And it was hard! I showed hubs clips of what I was doing.... and loved when he commented, "Wow, that's some serious Lara Croft business!" I dig that he takes enough of an interest in something he's not particularly interested in.
> 
> How To Perform Glute Ham Raises - Technique WOD 96 - YouTube
> 
> ...



Damn HB,

Glute Ham raises leaves me sore for a couple day after. Can't even sit on my behind , reminds me of boyhood days when I was justly rewarded with a spanking to the rear for my bad behavior!


Great that your husbands that supportive though!


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

rubpy3 said:


> A friend of mine is in his early 30s, obese, with diabetes. Several years back, I convinced him to start a high intensity training program with me. Within a month, he obtained noticeable improvements to his blood measurements, to the verge of getting off medications.


Specifically, how did you get him to start training with you? What did you say or do that made him agree to try it out?


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sorry to hear about your D-Day.
> 
> 
> But your program of linear progression sounds great. You have already hit your bodyweight which is excellent on the press.
> ...


That's on the overhead press. It's a real showoff in gyms! Back in college, before I knew what I was doing, I messed up my shoulder. Whenever I bench, my left should makes funny clicking noises.




> Specifically, how did you get him to start training with you? What did you say or do that made him agree to try it out?


He was not motivated to come to gym, because most of the exercises he did weren't useful in meeting his goals. In fact, he didn't even know what his goal was, beyond "get fit". One day in breakroom a group of us had a discussion on fitness, and I openly said I hated exercising. So the logical question from him was, how can I be so motivated to goto gym regularly if I hated exercises. I responded along the lines "I train, I don't exercise. Because I have very specific goals and I am always making measurable progress towards the goals, I know I'm not just wasting time, and thus I'm always motivated."


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

rubpy3 said:


> I responded along the lines "I train, I don't exercise. Because I have very specific goals and I am always making measurable progress towards the goals, I know I'm not just wasting time, and thus I'm always motivated."


This makes really great sense. Thanks for that. I will mention this to my husband who I would like to have around for another 30 more years, at least.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

rubpy3 said:


> That's on the overhead press. It's a real showoff in gyms! Back in college, before I knew what I was doing, I messed up my shoulder. Whenever I bench, my left should makes funny clicking noises.


Great stuff!

I too messed up my right shoulder early in the game, same loud clicking noise ,tremendous pain ,and it took about one year to heal.

How long did yours take to heal?

I stopped barbell bench pressing for about six months and opted for the seated chest press machine. I had many different hand placement options that allowed me to use lighter weights and put less stress on my shoulder.

Now that I'm back pressing, before I work out I do my cardio, then I warm up with external rotations for my rotator cuffs , using very light weights.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I once did climbing wall on a cruise ship. There was a move that required the left heel to come down on the left hand, which suddenly was free to go few inches to the right and allow further upward progress. It was amazing to solve that challenge. 

Unfortunately something broke in my left shoulder and although it healed and there is no pain, the something that broke never reconnected.

We use our bodies until they are all used up.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

Those shoulder pains, along with lack of progress, lead me to stop lifting for about 3 years. 

After I restarted lifting, there were still clicking sounds, but there was no pain. However, I didn't want to take any chances, and focused on overhead press and weighted dips instead of bench press.

I don't train bench press anymore. I do a few sets every now and then just to find what's my 1rep max, and I find that the increase in dips and overhead press directly translates into increases in bench press.

Even better is that overhead press gives that "cannonball" rounded shape to the deltoids, and weighted dips naturally brings out that "horseshoe" shape in triceps. Dips are also good for chesticles.

Between overhead press, dips, chins, and rows, I pretty much got all my upper body covered. No real need for benches.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

So I wanted to post a small motivational vid of a fitness couple working out.

Both are on a vegan diet and very strong.

Posting this one especially for the ladies on this thread.

Hot Fitness Couple Working Out In Metroflex Gym!

Like?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> We knew what you meant.
> 
> Of course, these days isolations are "bad" and compounds are "good."



What's your take on Carb Backloading in the night, before you train the next day?
[ I'm ectomorph.]


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Today officially the lightest I have been since well before my wedding. Celebrating with spinach scramble


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I'll follow CM with fitness clips because I love 'em  

Regardless of your view on veganism, this 78yo body builder continues to be motivated:

Jim Morris Vegan Bodybuilder Interview - YouTube


And for the ladies .....couldn't resist sharing CT Fletcher "Work for it!" 

Women's Squat Day with CT Fletcher: ITS STILL HER MUTHA ****IN SET!!! - YouTube


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I workout now and then


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

For me staying fit is a matter of life. I have a rare condition where my red marrow cannot keep up the production of red blood cells with the normal turn over rate. So at times I have to get shots from the doc (those same ones that certain unnamed MLB players have used) so I don't have hypoxia 'crash' that gets me feeling like the flu x 10. I know I have to fight against nature wanting to take me down. I will go down fighting with everything I have in me. 

I typically do a combination of weights and HIIT at least five times a week. On other days I may do weights and yoga or get in a swim. I'm a former masters swimmer and will likely start swimming with them again this summer. I would like to enter a few open ocean swim events again this season or next.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

heartsbeating said:


> I'll follow CM with fitness clips because I love 'em
> 
> Regardless of your view on veganism, this 78yo body builder continues to be motivated:
> 
> ...


My kinda stuff.^^^
_BTW , CT Fletcher is 55 yrs old and had the valves in his heart surgically replaced years ago when he suffered a heart attack._

Heartsbeating and Drerio,

I've got a special two minute vid about a female trailblazer for you both , very inspiring ,

Meet NASCAR's First Woman Pit Crew Member | Video - ABC News

Damn , she's good!


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## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

Caribbean Man said:


> So I wanted to post a small motivational vid of a fitness couple working out.
> 
> Both are on a vegan diet and very strong.
> 
> ...


Nice video!!! I have always been in average condition, but decided to start working out a few years ago.

At first I hated going to the gym, and being sore constantly. But after 6 months or so, something clicked in my brain and I started loving the personal time, the music, and the camaraderie of see other healthy folks in the gym working on improving themselves.

As I became more and more fit, my sexual drive increased. At that time my wife had ceased any attempts at sex, making the problem worse. I tried to focus on just the fitness side of it, but as I transformed my body into the classical bodybuilder model body, the more disappointed I became at my wife's attitude against sex.

Finally I had enough and filed for divorce. Today my soon to be ex regrets not keeping herself in shape...no duh you only think you need to be in shape to attract a mate, not to keep one.

I'm very proud of my great physique and health, and love the gym time I get as often as possible. Too bad most people just don't get the same joy and fun out of going to the gym.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

long_done said:


> *As I became more and more fit, my sexual drive increased.*


Yes, this happened to me also. I had a short bout of ED and when I started working out seriously, things came back working much better than before.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

I have begin to enjoy doing Tai Chi in the morning after I run with my dog. It energizes me for the day.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> What's your take on Carb Backloading in the night, before you train the next day?
> [ I'm ectomorph.]


Kiefer, the originator of this twist on Mauro Di Pasquale's anabolic diet, says you should Carb Backload _*after*_ training, with the training ideally occurring in the 3-6PM block; hence, the name "carb backloading" which means putting the carbs (as glycogen) _back in the muscle_ it was just burned out of.

If you train in the morning, you have a small amount of carbs before training, then the big carb-up that night. Of course, you're back on induction the next morning.

I've never tried Kiefer's Backload, but it is sound in theory and I do something very similar. Ellington Darden, one of Jones' minions at Nautilus in the glory years, is very much about maintaining a supply of carbs even when in fat loss mode. Tim Ferris' Slow Carb can also get some people pretty shredded.

My overall take on the Carb Backload version is to do it if it works for you until you're sure you've hit the wall (genetics, age, etc) and you're not really progressing, then cut back to one carb up night a week, which is pretty much what Keifer says, so I guess I'm just agreeing with him. This also coincides with what I'm doing from Di Pasquale and Ferris with regards to a big cheat window.

Being a cancer boy, I'm generally leery of carbs.


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## Vanton68 (Feb 5, 2012)

I tend to eat a strict low carb about 9 months of the year and adjust it as necessary. It's not the healthiest way to stay cut, but it works for me. Some of the ladies I have worked out with did well with intermittent fasting tho (did not work for me at all)


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Vanton68 said:


> I tend to eat a strict low carb about 9 months of the year and adjust it as necessary. It's not the healthiest way to stay cut, but it works for me. Some of the ladies I have worked out with did well with intermittent fasting tho (did not work for me at all)


Intermittent fasting seems to work well with the female fitness models, but I've heard a lot of men say it makes them lose muscle.

I've also read some articles across at tnation.com that said the same thing.

A low carb diet leaves me feeling tired all the time and I don't get the energy to lift heavy.

Here's a ling to tnation website:

T Nation | Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store

( You would have to search the site for the article I mentioned on intermittent fasting if interested in the actual research .)
Lots of useful information there, and lots of articles with the research behind it.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

long_done said:


> As I became more and more fit, my sexual drive increased.


This is one reason I love seeing my husband going jogging in the morning. It has begun to increase his sex drive, which is nice.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I always have my son with me, so I never really get to exercise alone, so he is always included. I'll take him in the stroller for a jog and I also use him as a weight, although it's getting more tough since he is 20 lbs now. I use him as a weight to do arm curls, hold him out in front of me as I do lunges, and so on. He loves it and cracks up laughing, and I get to exercise.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I was always a bookworm and not particularly athletically inclined. I lost my youthful chub around 20, married to someone fairly fit who used to really train. So I joined a gym but didn't consult him so he was mad about that and resentful of the time and money I spent. We moved and after that I never exercised until after I gave birth 10 years later and began doing aerobics. He made fun of my lack of coordination (even tho I was sweating like heck!) so I tried to do it before he got up. Bottom line I have negative feelings about exercise.

But about 6 years ago I realized I needed it to be healthier, but I wasn't good about consistency... 2 or three times a week. Age, weight, etc. crept up. I started getting serious about being both healthy and fitter. Not seeking perfection, just to be happy with me. 32 pounds down so far this year. 

First month was getting food/appetite under control (thanks MFP) second month was adding cardio (elliptical primarily) and third month I added strength training. I've had to increase weights on several machines already and I'm not overly sore - just from time to time. I upped the weight on the leg curls (Saturday was leg day) and I could feel it this morning, oddly, 2 days later.

I don't know if I'll ever love it, but I do feel a sense of accomplishment after I've gone, and happy with myself when I've done more/longer/heavier than last time. Small improvements. I've been thinner (weight only) and I've been fitter (BP/heart rate) but I've never been BOTH. I'd like to usher in next year/age 47 in better shape (healthier, not thinner) overall than I've ever been. And by 50 I'd like to feel more energetic than I did at 30 when I gave birth.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Doing aerobics while giving birth sounds excessive to me









I enjoy free diving. Three or four times I've done 75 meters with fins. With a mono fin I think I could do 100. Free diving is very meditative and relaxing.


_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I was always a bookworm and not particularly athletically inclined. I lost my youthful chub around 20, married to someone fairly fit who used to really train. So I joined a gym but didn't consult him so he was mad about that and resentful of the time and money I spent. We moved and after that I never exercised until after I gave birth 10 years later doing aerobics. He made fun of my lack of coordination (even tho I was sweating like heck!) so I tried to do it before he got up. Bottom line I have negative feelings about exercise.
> 
> But about 6 years ago I realized I needed it to be healthier, but I wasn't good about consistency... 2 or three times a week. Age, weight, etc. crept up. I started getting serious about being both healthy and fitter. Not seeking perfection, just to be happy with me. 32 pounds down so far this year.
> 
> ...



Your doing great.


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## rubpy3 (Nov 19, 2013)

> I don't know if I'll ever love it, but I do feel a sense of accomplishment after I've gone, and happy with myself when I've done more/longer/heavier than last time. Small improvements


It's those small, consistent improvements that will motivate you to continue. The iron game is addictive.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I was always a bookworm and not particularly athletically inclined. I lost my youthful chub around 20, married to someone fairly fit who used to really train. So I joined a gym but didn't consult him so he was mad about that and resentful of the time and money I spent. We moved and after that I never exercised until after I gave birth 10 years later and began doing aerobics. He made fun of my lack of coordination (even tho I was sweating like heck!) so I tried to do it before he got up. Bottom line I have negative feelings about exercise.
> 
> But about 6 years ago I realized I needed it to be healthier, but I wasn't good about consistency... 2 or three times a week. Age, weight, etc. crept up. I started getting serious about being both healthy and fitter. Not seeking perfection, just to be happy with me. 32 pounds down so far this year.
> 
> ...


Those are both very reasonable goals.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

EnjoliWoman said:


> I don't know if I'll ever love it, but I do feel a sense of accomplishment after I've gone, and happy with myself when I've done more/longer/heavier than last time. Small improvements. I've been thinner (weight only) and I've been fitter (BP/heart rate) but I've never been BOTH. I'd like to usher in next year/age 47 in better shape (healthier, not thinner) overall than I've ever been. And by 50 I'd like to feel more energetic than I did at 30 when I gave birth.


Sounds like you're doing all right to me!

And pretty soon, as you start seeing results, you will start liking it, and then loving it.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

drerio said:


> I have begin to enjoy doing Tai Chi in the morning after I run with my dog. It energizes me for the day.


I used to love Tai Chi... definitely something I'd like to do again. Enjoy!!


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Vanton68 said:


> I tend to eat a strict low carb about 9 months of the year and adjust it as necessary. It's not the healthiest way to stay cut, but it works for me. Some of the ladies I have worked out with did well with intermittent fasting tho (did not work for me at all)


Actually, before the Agricultural Revolution, this is the way our ancestors ate. Your body is genetically optimized for this.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Actually, before the Agricultural Revolution, this is the way our ancestors ate. Your body is genetically optimized for this.


Good news Mach.

I hit the 250 on the bench press yesterday , with ease. In fact, I went up to 260 for eight reps.

Usually I pre exhaust my chest with dips and cable flyes. This time after warming up , I dived under the bar and did fifteen reps with on 45 plate on either side, then added a 35 plate for twelve reps then replaced the 55's with 45's for ten reps.

Then I did the dips and cables.

Couldn't believe it, I added a 10 plate, on either side, went back under the bar for eight reps, and drop set right back down.

Finally broke that plateau, and it wasn't overly hard. I could have gone higher for sure. At least an extra 35 plate on either side for three - five reps.

Next Tuesday I'll try again.


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