# I have to wonder…



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.

I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week. 

In the last couple of days I have read stories of men whose wives give them regular sex, never turn down their husband and STILL men are complaining that it just isn’t enough. “She doesn’t initiate”. “She doesn’t show enough enthusiasm”.

I have to wonder what the hell is going on?

I recently read an older thread where a man said if she loves me she would give me a blow job even if she doesn’t particularly enjoy it. A thread much newer the exact opposite. I don’t want one if she doesn’t desire it.

It feels like sometimes women just can’t win. 

There is much dispute over porn and it’s effect on sexuality. Do y’all think it has slanted how men view sexual relations? The over the top moaning and groaning?
The images of women acting as she is devouring the best steak she has ever eaten in her life? That crap just isn’t real but somehow I feel it has made women out to be inferior if they don’t perform that way especially after decades of marriage. It is a bit disheartening to be honest.

Thoughts?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> In the last couple of days I have read stories of men whose wives give them regular sex, never turn down their husband and STILL men are complaining that it just isn’t enough. “She doesn’t initiate”. “She doesn’t show enough enthusiasm”.


Well, for this part, I think you answered your own question. If a woman thinks of it as GIVING them regular sex then it begins to feel like a chore. And if she does it without and enthusiasm it would make it seem like she is doing him a favor. For me I would rather have no sex then pity sex.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Well, for this part, I think you answered your own question. If a woman thinks of it as GIVING them regular sex then it begins to feel like a chore. And if she does it without and enthusiasm it would make it seem like she is doing him a favor. For me I would rather have no sex then pity sex.


Perhaps the word give was off on my part. 🤷🏼‍♀️ My question still stands.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


I'm on your side. I love women, (my W of course my love now) and believe there's way too much overthinking going on by many guys.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


I think porn has had a truly terrible effect on people's minds and expectations yes. Many studies have shown this the be true especially among the young. 40% of divorces now site porn as the reason.
It's destroying lives, marriages, and skewing people's ideas of what a loving sharing healthy sex life is. 

It also makes me really appreciate the man I have and that I won't need to ever date again.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Perhaps the word give was off on my part. 🤷🏼‍♀️ My question still stands.


I can't really answer that because sex was never an issue with my EX. It was everything else LOL


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CountryMike said:


> I'm on your side. I love women, (my W of course my love now) and believe there's way too much overthinking going on by many guys.


So is it a direct result of the easy access to porn now? Back in the dinosaur age which I am from you had to go to a video store and duck behind the curtains to rent a pornography movie. Now all you have to do is google the letter k and up pops a site. 😉


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> I can't really answer that because sex was never an issue with my EX. It was everything else LOL


😂🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> 😂🤷🏼‍♀️


I can tell you that nothing is a bigger turn off for me then boring sex. If I get the sense that my partner is having "duty/chore/starfish" sex she wouldn't be around much longer.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So is it a direct result of the easy access to porn now? Back in the dinosaur age which I am from you had to go to a video store and duck behind the curtains to rent a pornography movie. Now all you have to do is google the letter k and up pops a site. 😉


It's certainly harder for people to stay away from it now, you need self control and strong values to do so. 
Also what you can choose to see now is beyond awful. Makes the mags I found in my dad's wardrobe seem incredibly tame.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> The over the top moaning and groaning?
> The images of women acting as she is devouring the best steak she has ever eaten in her life? That crap just isn’t real


This reads as though you think every woman enjoys great food more than sex, but I doubt that's what you mean.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> I can tell you that nothing is a bigger turn off for me then boring sex. If I get the sense that my partner is having "duty/chore/starfish" sex she wouldn't be around much longer.


I get that…I just wonder if what we have gotten to the point that every encounter has to be this over the top endeavor. When my kids were smaller I would signal to my husband to come into the bathroom for a quickie. I mean 5 minutes bang it out get it done quickie. Everyone orgasms, no lingerie, no toys, no over the top screaming. 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> This reads as though you think every woman enjoys great food more than sex, but I doubt that's what you mean.


Well after 30 years with the same person an exceptional steak may just be better than sex 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I get that…I just wonder if what we have gotten to the point that every encounter has to be this over the top endeavor. When my kids were smaller I would signal to my husband to come into the bathroom for a quickie. I mean 5 minutes bang it out get it done quickie. Everyone orgasms, no lingerie, no toys, no over the top screaming. 😂


Quickies absolutely have a place (in the pool ☺), even "boring" sex has its place. But to use your food references, if you have chicken even night for dinner you are going to want a steak every once in awhile. Chicken gets boring


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> The over the top moaning and groaning?


I mean my wife and I moan and groan. Is it over the top? I don’t think so. It just comes out.

I think maybe what you’re seeing is just the 4:1 ratio of HD men to women; or perhaps men’s need to be desired and lack of understanding of responsive desire. I know when I started on the journey of trying to improve things I had absolutely no clue.

All I knew was used to have lots of sex and then I didn’t. Used to have better sex and then I didn’t.

Once I started trying to really unpack the why-s I found all kinds of reasons for why, but none of them were that my expectations were unrealistic.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Quickies absolutely have a place (in the pool ☺), even "boring" sex has its place. But to use your food references, if you have chicken even night for dinner you are going to want a steak every once in awhile. Chicken gets boring


Indeed. So what are men going to do about not being a chicken? 😳😂


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Indeed. So what are men going to do about not being a chicken? 😳😂


Don't know about other men but here it is all steak, all the time! 😉


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I mean my wife and I moan and groan. Is it over the top? I don’t think so. It just comes out.
> 
> I think maybe what you’re seeing is just the 4:1 ratio of HD men to women; or perhaps men’s need to be desired and lack of understanding of responsive desire. I know when I started on the journey of trying to improve things I had absolutely no clue.
> 
> ...


I was not saying that moaning and groaning was over the top but as a woman if I’m giving head I have to control my mouth and especially my teeth. It can be edited and added later for effect. If one wants to come away with an intact penis some control is needed. 😉


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I was not saying that moaning and groaning was over the top but as a woman if I’m giving head I have to control my mouth and especially my teeth. It can be edited and added later for effect. If one wants to come away with an intact penis some control is needed. 😉


I mean sound effects in porn are added later 😂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I was not saying that moaning and groaning was over the top but as a woman if I’m giving head I have to control my mouth and especially my teeth. It can be edited and added later for effect. If one wants to come away with an intact penis some control is needed. 😉


Moaning and groaning from her during a BJ no way that’d be pretty fake. Lately I been worried about my nuts though, sometimes she gets a bit too enthusiastic. 😅


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I was not saying that moaning and groaning was over the top but as a woman if I’m giving head I have to control my mouth and especially my teeth. It can be edited and added later for effect. If one wants to come away with an intact penis some control is needed. 😉


If a woman ever moaned while doing that without some sort of simulation to herself I think I would actually laugh out loud.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’ve been ranting against porn forever because I think it makes men finicky, penis obsessed, visually obsessed, performance obsessed, and causes performance or arousal problems. So yeah, porn destroys men and marriage.

I think it’s God’s way of punishing men who commit this fantasy form of adultery. I’ve known personally of several marriages that ended in part due to it. Man gets obsessed with sex acts from porn and pushes harder and harder for his wife to recreate- all reason just goes out the window. Eventually the wife realizes it is a sort of sickness on his part especially when he starts pushing to watch her with another person (clearly a porn thing).

Further, men were made to be jacked up on testosterone and sexual frustration. The modern man feels a tinge of frustration, clicks up a porn fantasy, and wastes his mojo on an illusion. He’s like a relaxed, teddy bear wussy for the rest of the day. A man all satisfied with porn and masturbation is afraid to fight, suffer, or take risks.

I consider it real love when my wife welcomes me in for a quickie... isn’t that the very definition of selfless giving? Finicky porn guys call this pity sex (STFU with your “pity sex”). If my wife has been wrestling the kids and isn’t in the mood but welcomes me in anyway- I call that true love and accept. In fact, I usually “accept” these instances so aggressively and excitedly that she gets into it too. Porn guys go “yawn, let me get this over with..sob sob, poor me”... only because they beat off yesterday.

Admittedly, porn gives men a HUGE advantage in marriage. Wife’s being a *****... just ignore her and go pull up some porn.

Rant concluded...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I’ve been ranting against porn forever because I think it makes men finicky, penis obsessed, visually obsessed, performance obsessed, and causes performance or arousal problems. So yeah, porn destroys men and marriage.
> 
> I think it’s God’s way of punishing men who commit this fantasy form of adultery. I’ve known personally of several marriages that ended in part due to it. Man gets obsessed with sex acts from porn and pushes harder and harder for his wife to recreate- all reason just goes out the window. Eventually the wife realizes it is a sort of sickness on his part especially when he starts pushing to watch her with another person (clearly a porn thing).
> 
> ...


I know in my marriage my husband was very high sex drive. Everyday was his philosophy. There were days I was not into it and I did it anyway. Because I loved him and was it a chore…sometimes. Not like cleaning the kitty litter but something on my list of things to do. 😂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> A man all satisfied with porn and masturbation is afraid to fight, suffer, or take risks.


I used to jerk off to porn and then immediately after step into the boxing ring for 6 rounds. Later in the day I’d go to the horse track and literally gamble.

I don’t think porn is good because as @dadstartingover so eloquently said in his work, you don’t want to be Eugene watching other people having sex on a magic box instead of having sex yourself.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I know in my marriage my husband was very high sex drive. Everyday was his philosophy. There were days I was not into it and I did it anyway. Because I loved him and was it a chore…sometimes. Not like cleaning the kitty litter but something on my list of things to do. 😂


Exactly my point! If it's a chore then I would rather her not


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I used to jerk off to porn and then immediately after step into the boxing ring for 6 rounds. Later in the day I’d go to the horse track and literally gamble.
> 
> I don’t think porn is good because as @dadstartingover so eloquently said in his work, you don’t want to be Eugene watching other people having sex on a magic box instead of having sex yourself.


I feel about porn the same way I feel about strip clubs....a waste of time


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Exactly my point! If it's a chore then I would rather her not


In hindsight I wish I had not put his needs above mine. 😂


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

There was a thread running a few years ago and I would have quite happily travelled to the posters home city to kick him in the ass.
He was married to (in his own words) a beautiful woman who looked after his every need domestically, she had a well paying job and her salary went into their joint account, she loved sex and was great in bed. He never had any reason not to trust her.
His problem? He wondered how she had become like this because some of his friends complained about their wives hating sex and/or refusing to work or do chores.
He was worried that she might have been promiscuous when she was younger. 
As far as I remember he had decided to leave her and wanted people here to agree with him. 
The stupid ****ing asshole. He had a diamond and he didn’t know it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Andy1001 said:


> There was a thread running a few years ago and I would have quite happily travelled to the posters home city to kick him in the ass.
> He was married to (in his own words) a beautiful woman who looked after his every need domestically, she had a well paying job and her salary went into their joint account, she loved sex and was great in bed. He never had any reason not to trust her.
> His problem? He wondered how she had become like this because some of his friends complained about their wives hating sex and/or refusing to work or do chores.
> He was worried that she might have been promiscuous when she was younger.
> ...


That is it! Like WT actual F? You have a loving woman but she doesn’t moan loud enough while performing oral sex. Poor, poor man. 😂


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I was not saying that moaning and groaning was over the top but as a woman if I’m giving head I have to control my mouth and especially my teeth.


Perhaps what you don't understand is that some of us are married to a woman who thinks controlling her teeth is not biting the whole thing off if it gets anywhere near her mouth.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Now all you have to do is google the letter k and up pops a site. 😉


🤣 🤣🤣


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Exactly my point! If it's a chore then I would rather her not


I think I generally have a good feeling about where she is at on it. If she comes to bed and is like you know what I’m not into PIV, but I’ll give you a blowjob. Then it is one of these:

1. She is worn out from taking the D too many times that day, doesn’t want it again. In this case I decline because we’re in chore territory.

2. She’s on her period. Yes please.

3. Has something wrong with her physically like pain such as a headache. Chore world.

4. None of the above but she won’t have an orgasm because she’s in a weird head space or something and just isn’t into PIV. Ok, I’m taking it.

At this point I don’t think she’ll do chore PIV. If she’s not trying to have an orgasm these days she’s always looking at me, grabbing my head or shoulders or whatever so if it’s a chore it’s a damn good performance A+.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

This porn has been brought to you by the letter 'k'.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Perhaps what you don't understand is that some of us are married to a woman who thinks controlling her teeth is not biting the whole thing off if it gets anywhere near her mouth.


If I moaned and groaned giving head (sound effects added) like women do in porn there would be a bloody stump left.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

As an example I struck out last night and she stayed up working. Didn’t come to bed at all.

Today she is looking cuter than normal and all over me in the house so if I don’t drink too much at happy hour I’m in there. Chore level for today is zero.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Cletus said:


> This porn has been brought to you by the letter 'k'.


The Lost Episode of "Sesame Street".


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> As an example I struck out last night and she stayed up working. Didn’t come to bed at all.
> 
> Today she is looking cuter than normal and all over me in the house so if I don’t drink too much at happy hour I’m in there. Chore level for today is zero.


Excellent!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Excellent!


The main problem there is I am going out with a bunch of alcoholics and the place we’re going to is half off on all wine. It will take lots of willpower but the prize is worth it I want to see if the neighbors hear it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> The main problem there is I am going out with a bunch of alcoholics and the place we’re going to is half off on all wine. It will take lots of willpower but the prize is worth it I want to see if the neighbors hear it.


😂 Stay strong bother!


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> As an example I struck out last night and she stayed up working. Didn’t come to bed at all.
> 
> Today she is looking cuter than normal and all over me in the house so if I don’t drink too much at happy hour I’m in there. Chore level for today is zero.


How come I heard the music from "Rocky" when I read this?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> The main problem there is I am going out with a bunch of alcoholics and the place we’re going to is half off on all wine. It will take lots of willpower but the prize is worth it I want to see if the neighbors hear it.


Just be thankful she isn't a screamer and trash talker LOL


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

SpinyNorman said:


> The Lost Episode of "Sesame Street".


Lost? Bert and Ernie want a word.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> I know in my marriage my husband was very high sex drive. Everyday was his philosophy. There were days I was not into it and I did it anyway. Because I loved him and was it a chore…sometimes. Not like cleaning the kitty litter but something on my list of things to do. 😂





Numb26 said:


> Exactly my point! If it's a chore then I would rather her not





Numb26 said:


> I feel about porn the same way I feel about strip clubs....a waste of time





Torninhalf said:


> In hindsight I wish I had not put his needs above mine. 😂


I think this is a fine line. Keep in mind that when I was married, I was the one with HD while my husband was LD. And if I initiated he struggled with performance and then got frustrated which was stressful for the both of us. So we had a pretty sexless marriage. But I would definitely say, that I could view sex as a chore without it bothering me. There are things we do to take care of the people we are with that isn’t our idea. Even being HD, I didn’t think about sex 24/7 so there were times when he initiated that I wasn’t in the mood. But I went with it, because it was good for bonding, and was a way to care for him. And I even if I didn’t O I still enjoyed it. For me, it was an act of love. And even if he is a loser who I should have kicked to the curb long before I did, I don’t regret that. 

For me sex sometimes was like giving a shoulder rub. I am rarely dying to give anyone a shoulder rub. It is never at the top of my mind that I need to give a shoulder rub. But if someone asks for it, I don’t mind giving one. I don’t even need it to be reciprocated. But I would think it was weird that someone didn’t want a shoulder rub from me because I wasn’t enthusiastic enough or I didn’t initiate it, even though they really wanted a shoulder rub.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of people are unhappy because they mistake a good sex life as wanting/giving a high quantity of sex. I think the truth is a good sex life is more about wanting/giving a high quality of sex.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Just be thankful she isn't a screamer and trash talker LOL


Screaming would be off putting I think. Trash talk wow... maybe it could work.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> Well after 30 years with the same person an exceptional steak may just be better than sex 🤷🏼‍♀️


I would guess different women would have different comparative ratings of food vs. sex, and wouldn't say any of them aren't real.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BlueWoman said:


> I think this is a fine line. Keep in mind that when I was married, I was the one with HD while my husband was LD. And if I initiated he struggled with performance and then got frustrated which was stressful for the both of us. So we had a pretty sexless marriage. But I would definitely say, that I could view sex as a chore without it bothering me. There are things we do to take care of the people we are with that isn’t our idea. Even being HD, I didn’t think about sex 24/7 so there were times when he initiated that I wasn’t in the mood. But I went with it, because it was good for bonding, and was a way to care for him. And I even if I didn’t O I still enjoyed it. For me, it was an act of love. And even if he is a loser who I should have kicked to the curb long before I did, I don’t regret that.
> 
> For me sex sometimes was like giving a shoulder rub. I am rarely dying to give anyone a shoulder rub. It is never at the top of my mind that I need to give a shoulder rub. But if someone asks for it, I don’t mind giving one. I don’t even need it to be reciprocated. But I would think it was weird that someone didn’t want a shoulder rub from me because I wasn’t enthusiastic enough or I didn’t initiate it, even though they really wanted a shoulder rub.


Spot on!


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Screaming would be off putting I think. Trash talk wow... maybe it could work.


It works! Made me blush sometimes


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> I would guess different women would have different comparative ratings of food vs. sex, and wouldn't say any of them aren't real.


I like my steak well seasoned and rare. I order it that way but most times it’s just a medium steak with salt and pepper. Is it not good? No. It’s just not drool worthy. 😳


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm in the camp of those who think porn is damaging.

It interferes with the bond between partners, creates unrealistic expectations, and can even create a false sense of how high of a sec drive one has.

Porn stimulates the brain, so the same guy who wouldn't necessarily be thinking of sex all the time will watch porn, think of sex, and congratulate himself on his high drive.

Porn isn't put there for altruistic reasons. It's a business that is designed to keep you coming back just like heroin.

Of course adults can do what they want, but I have no interest in a guy who watches a lot of porn.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I mean sound effects in porn are added later 😂


In college a friend used to joke he would have a career doing exactly this. He didn't, but I remember at least one of his imaginative strategies.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I like my steak well seasoned and rare. I order it that way but most times it’s just a medium steak with salt and pepper. Is it not good? No. It’s just not drool worthy. 😳


You are eating at the wrong restaurants 🤣


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> It works! Made me blush sometimes


Lol!!! You gotta post some sample lines now.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm in the camp of those who think porn is damaging.
> 
> It interferes with the bond between partners, creates unrealistic expectations, and can even create a false sense of how high of a sec drive one has.
> 
> ...


I’m not a fan of porn. I’ve watched it and to be honest it’s not something I ever need to see again. I prefer a well placed mirror in my own bedroom 😉


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> You are eating at the wrong restaurants 🤣


Well I live in the south now and chicken is it’s star. 😂


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not a fan of porn. I’ve watched it and to be honest it’s not something I ever need to see again. I prefer a well placed mirror in my own bedroom 😉


Ha ha...preach!

Maybe TMI but I like being on top with a mirror. 

Must be a runner thing.....LOL.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Well I live in the south now and chicken is it’s star. 😂


Love Southern cooking but chicken isn't a favorite. Maybe you should expand your culinary horizons?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ha ha...preach!
> 
> Maybe TMI but I like being on top with a mirror.
> 
> Must be a runner thing.....LOL.


Amen! I do my best work on top 😉


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not a fan of porn. I’ve watched it and to be honest it’s not something I ever need to see again. I prefer a well placed mirror in my own bedroom 😉


I would take my IRL wife 10 times out of 10 over any porn. Since I cut porn completely sometimes if I go on like 3 days with nothing which happens occasionally I start going a bit off; but what I learned is in that case I need to just explain it to her and tell her I’m dyin’ here.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Love Southern cooking but chicken isn't a favorite. Maybe you should expand your culinary horizons?


Coming from NY and it’s steak houses how should I do that?


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> I would take my IRL wife 10 times out of 10 over any porn. Since I cut porn completely sometimes if I go on like 3 days with nothing which happens occasionally I start going a bit off; but what I learned is in that case I need to just explain it to her and tell her I’m dyin’ here.


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I would take my IRL wife 10 times out of 10 over any porn. Since I cut porn completely sometimes if I go on like 3 days with nothing which happens occasionally I start going a bit off; but what I learned is in that case I need to just explain it to her and tell her I’m dyin’ here.


😂


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not a fan of porn. I’ve watched it and to be honest it’s not something I ever need to see again. I prefer a well placed mirror in my own bedroom 😉


See, this is why you had to ask this question in the first place. With all due respect, you are not part of the problem and probably don't understand much about those who are. 

A mirror in the bedroom? What woman wants to look at herself having sex with her husband? THOSE are the wives getting bad press 'round here.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Hmm I have been thinking we need a mirror lately.

Edit: We have a peak in the ceiling though and live in earthquake country. Might need it on the wall.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> See, this is why you had to ask this question in the first place. With all due respect, you are not part of the problem and probably don't understand much about those who are.
> 
> A mirror in the bedroom? What woman wants to look at herself having sex with her husband? THOSE are the wives getting bad press 'round here.


Could you expand on this? I have to say I’m a bit confused.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm I have been thinking we need a mirror lately.


I have 2. One as a head board with iron slats and one above my dresser at the foot of the bed. Only draw back is I can never see my backside when I get dressed 😂


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I have 2. One as a head board with iron slats and one above my dresser at the foot of the bed. Only draw back is I can never see my backside when I get dressed 😂


You have a mirror as a headboard?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

AllyCat702 said:


> You have a mirror as a headboard?


Yes. It is iron slats with a mirror back. Why?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I have 2. One as a head board with iron slats and one above my dresser at the foot of the bed. Only draw back is I can never see my backside when I get dressed 😂


Luckily I have a room that is all mirrors LOL


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> I used to jerk off to porn and then immediately after step into the boxing ring for 6 rounds. Later in the day I’d go to the horse track and literally gamble.
> 
> I don’t think porn is good because as @dadstartingover so eloquently said in his work, you don’t want to be Eugene watching other people having sex on a magic box instead of having sex yourself.


I think if you faced your non-porn self in the ring... he’d kick your a$$. Purely speculation, but he’d be more amped up and less nice.

Many men have plenty of testosterone to do it all.. won’t argue... but many don’t.


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Yes. It is iron slats with a mirror back. Why?


Just trying to picture what it looks like. I love furniture and I have never seen a bed like that. No particular reason otherwise.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Could you expand on this? I have to say I’m a bit confused.


Some (many?) of us are married to women who don't give or receive oral sex. Who wouldn't allow a mirror in the bedroom if one was offered. Whose definition of variety is to take the top. 

Guys married to women like you FTMP aren't here complaining about their sex lives.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Luckily I have a room that is all mirrors LOL


When I was much younger we rented a house and put a mirror on the ceiling. My son was only a baby. When he started to invite friends over we too it down. 😂


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I think if you faced your non-porn self in the ring... he’d kick your a$$. Purely speculation, but he’d be more amped up and less nice.


Women weaken legs is the classic line from Rocky. I will have to ask my coach’s opinion on porn but the last informal survey I took in the gym with the mostly 20 something fighters in there is they’re all porn spankers. I brought it up and they started shouting out names I never heard of.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> I think if you faced your non-porn self in the ring... he’d kick your a$$. Purely speculation, but he’d be more amped up and less nice.
> 
> Many men have plenty of testosterone to do it all.. won’t argue... but many don’t.


I always try to have sex before competitions, it helps


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Some (many?) of us are married to women who don't give or receive oral sex. Who wouldn't allow a mirror in the bedroom if one was offered. Whose definition of variety is to take the top.
> 
> Guys married to women like you FTMP aren't here complaining about their sex lives.


Not true and the reason for this post. A man here is complaining his wife isn’t enthusiastic enough with her blow jobs.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> There was a thread running a few years ago and I would have quite happily travelled to the posters home city to kick him in the ass.
> He was married to (in his own words) a beautiful woman who looked after his every need domestically, she had a well paying job and her salary went into their joint account, she loved sex and was great in bed. He never had any reason not to trust her.
> His problem? He wondered how she had become like this because some of his friends complained about their wives hating sex and/or refusing to work or do chores.
> He was worried that she might have been promiscuous when she was younger.
> ...


I honestly believe that there are those who will never be content no matter how good their life. Contentment is something that is so important.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> When I was much younger we rented a house and put a mirror on the ceiling. My son was only a baby. When he started to invite friends over we too it down. 😂


My kids know to stay out of the weightroom LOL


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Women weaken legs is the classic line from Rocky. I will have to ask my coach’s opinion on porn but the last informal survey I took in the gym with the mostly 20 something fighters in there is they’re all porn spankers. I brought it up and they started shouting out names I never heard of.


When I first met my husband in 1984 he was an armature body builder. No sex before leg day was his mantra 😂


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Not true and the reason for this post. A man here is complaining his wife isn’t enthusiastic enough with her blow jobs.


Nothing worse then a sad blow job


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Not true and the reason for this post. A man here is complaining his wife isn’t enthusiastic enough with her blow jobs.


This is what always scares me is reading men complaining when their wife is doing everything in the marriage.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> I always try to have sex before competitions, it helps


Thats long been a debate....whether sex before athletic events is helpful.

I tend to run faster when I'm annoyed, but I don't like being annoyed. 

It's a tough one.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> When I first met my husband in 1984 he was an armature body builder. No sex before leg day was his mantra 😂


He wasn't doing something right then


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Not true and the reason for this post. A man here is complaining his wife isn’t enthusiastic enough with her blow jobs.


Yeah, I know it's not formal law of physics. Hence the FTMP. Don't let the six sigma outliers become your idea of typical.

This site can be to marriage what porn is to sex.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> My kids know to stay out of the weightroom LOL


Well it was my bedroom. 😂


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Nothing worse then a sad blow job


really? Nothing? 😂


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> Thats long been a debate....whether sex before athletic events is helpful.
> 
> I tend to run faster when I'm annoyed, but I don't like being annoyed.
> 
> It's a tough one.


I find I have more energy and strength if I have sex the morning of a contest


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> really? Nothing? 😂


Maybe if she starfishes


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Maybe if she starfishes


Maybe those men are yawn worthy. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe those men are yawn worthy. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Yeah why is it assumed the woman is the problem?


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> I know in my marriage my husband was very high sex drive. Everyday was his philosophy. There were days I was not into it and I did it anyway. Because I loved him and was it a chore…sometimes. Not like cleaning the kitty litter but something on my list of things to do. 😂


Wow, that’s a real testament to a your commitment and love for him... what a foolish jerk he is.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

AllyCat702 said:


> Yeah why is it assumed the woman is the problem?


Exactly! Maybe it’s men who are boring the crap out of us women 😂


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe those men are yawn worthy. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Probably, considering the state of men in this new generation


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Wow, that’s a real testament to a your commitment and love for him... what a foolish jerk he is.


Thanks. I thought so. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Exactly! Maybe it’s men who are boring the crap out of us women 😂


And maybe they aren’t listening to what we are telling them we need in the relationship


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

AllyCat702 said:


> Yeah why is it assumed the woman is the problem?





AllyCat702 said:


> Yeah why is it assumed the woman is the problem?


Both sides are equally responsible for how good or bad their sex life is


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> Both sides are equally responsible for how good or bad their sex life is


That is very well said.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Probably, considering the state of men in this new generation


I’m not sure if it is the new generation. Most know my story my husband cheated. He was 55 probably in a mid life crisis. A much younger woman. Whatever. I know for me the last few years he bored me out of my mind. Same old jokes, same flirting, same old same old same old. I’ve screwed him for 3 decades and somehow he thought I would be raring to go every time. He wanted me to be sexy and new but he didn’t do a thing different in all those years. Why is this always one sided with men?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Exactly! Maybe it’s men who are boring the crap out of us women 😂


Like I said, you need to expand you culinary horizons. Too much chicken!


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> Like I said, you need to expand you culinary horizons. Too much chicken!


Trust me I’m all about trying something new. 😂


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Trust me I’m all about trying something new. 😂


But ex husband wasn’t?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not sure if it is the new generation. Most know my story my husband cheated. He was 55 probably in a mid life crisis. A much younger woman. Whatever. I know for me the last few years he bored me out of my mind. Same old jokes, same flirting, same old same old same old. I’ve screwed him for 3 decades and somehow he thought I would be raring to go every time. He wanted me to be sexy and new but he didn’t do a thing different in all those years. Why is this always one sided with men?


I don't think it's an exclusively male thing. I have read stories where it is both the husband and the wife not making an effort. 
And my personal experience is an exception to that, we did have an varied and interesting sex life but it still.wasnt enough for her.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

AllyCat702 said:


> But ex husband wasn’t?


Oh no he was. Someone entirely new 😂


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Oh no he was. Someone entirely new 😂


This deserves a dislike button


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Cletus said:


> This porn has been brought to you by the letter 'k'.





SpinyNorman said:


> The Lost Episode of "Sesame Street".


I'm thinking the letter "O" would be better.("Oh! Oh!")


----------



## AllyCat702 (May 30, 2021)

Why do men also expect women to love lingerie?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

AllyCat702 said:


> Why do men also expect women to love lingerie?


Good question. Men have any answers for Ally?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Good question. Men have any answers for Ally?


I don't. Just one more thing between me and what I'm after. LOL


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Exactly! Maybe it’s men who are boring the crap out of us women 😂


People who complain about being bored can sometimes be boring.

Just saying.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> I don't. Just one more thing between me and what I'm after. LOL


What are you after?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> What are you after?


A beautiful naked body......free of all obstacles


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> A beautiful naked body......free of all obstacles


Gottcha


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

AllyCat702 said:


> Why do men also expect women to love lingerie?


I'm a man and I don't.

As an outsider looking in, I definitely don't think it's about women loving it but it's for the man obviously.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I'm a man and I don't.
> 
> As an outsider looking in, I definitely don't think it's about women loving it but it's for the man obviously.


It doesn't do anything for me either. I suspect some women like the way they look in it and others don't care about that.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Good question. Men have any answers for Ally?


Some women like looking pretty. I suppose in another generation or two it will be the men wearing lingerie- waiting for the women to initiate.

Wearing lingerie is an act of love.. performed by a wife to please her husband. It’s sort of no different than wearing lipstick- right?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

AllyCat702 said:


> Why do men also expect women to love lingerie?





Torninhalf said:


> Good question. Men have any answers for Ally?


Hmm. Well love it I don’t know. I have to say, I love it and if my wife wears it, it drives me nuts!!!

The stuff I like the best like thongs is the stuff she dislikes the most. So when she wears it for me I love it that much more as it’s purely for me.

In fact I may have accidentally bought some Wicked Weasel pieces for her today that she will hate but will make her look amazing.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Some women like looking pretty. I suppose in another generation or two it will be the men wearing lingerie- waiting for the women to initiate.
> 
> Wearing lingerie is an act of love.. performed by a wife to please her husband. It’s sort of no different than wearing lipstick- right?


It’s an act of love? Give me something comparative that a man would do similarly for his wife.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm. Well love it I don’t know. I have to say, I love it and if my wife wears it, it drives me nuts!!!
> 
> The stuff I like the best like thongs is the stuff she dislikes the most. So when she wears it for me I love it that much more as it’s purely for me.
> 
> In fact I may have accidentally bought some Wicked Weasel pieces for her today that she will hate but will make her look amazing.


You got her stuff she will hate? Why?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> You got her stuff she will hate? Why?


I bought it for me not for her.

She will be late to appreciate it but when she eventually feels like wearing it the amount of compliments and encouragement she will get will make her feel good. Just my smile will make her light up.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s an act of love? Give me something comparative that a man would do similarly for his wife.


I would do nearly anything for her. I just got her margarita salt and bar napkins for her popcorn.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I bought it for me not for her.
> 
> She will be late to appreciate it but when she eventually feels like wearing it the amount of compliments and encouragement she will get will make her feel good. Just my smile will make her light up.


At least you admit it is for you and not her. 😂


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

About lingerie... Mrs. Conan would where anything for me out of love and desire to please me. She wore it early in our relationship but it's just not my particular thing.

Now when she meets me at the door in my cowboy boots, hat and pasties it's on! Ride em cowboy! Literally! LoL!🤠

She also has worn sexy Batgirl outfits for me and that tripped my trigger as well.

If lingerie did it for me, she would wear it regularly.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s an act of love? Give me something comparative that a man would do similarly for his wife.


Nothing really compares I think. Certainly not plunging toilets or the like. 😂


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Nothing really compares I think. Certainly not plunging toilets or the like. 😂


My point exactly 😂


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> My point exactly 😂


My wife bought us matching outfits that showed up today. Briefs for me and a matching boy shorts and bralet for her. It is going off we doing it fam.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife bought us matching outfits that showed up today. Briefs for me and a matching boy shorts and bralet for her. It is going off we doing it fam.


Damn I love boy shorts! You going to post pictures?


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Damn I love boy shorts! You going to post pictures?


I will take a picture of the popcorn and bar napkins and margarita salt hahah.

This is supposed to be a movie theater. The place we went didn’t have enough service and this place has a bar so we just went to the bar and skipped the movie part.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I will take a picture of the popcorn and bar napkins and margarita salt hahah.


I don’t think this thread was posted for you. It was a culmination of many over the last few weeks. If I offended I apologize. As a woman who is sexually adventurous and someone who always put my partners needs on the front burner I found some threads odd. My wife never refuses, she will do whatever I want but damn she isn’t acting like a porn star 😂


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> My wife never refuses, she will do whatever I want but damn she isn’t acting like a porn star 😂


No I get it. I even posted something snarky in that one before I bowed out.

Wife: <starts giving BJ>
<stops...>
Wife: Husband, have I ever told you how much I enjoy sucking you off? I can’t even contain myself it’s that good!!!
Husband: This is now satisfactory.


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

It's not just men's expectations in the bedroom that have gotten out of hand IMO, it's everyone. I've met more than enough women over the age of 30 that come with an instruction manual on how to get them off. They read 50 Shades of Grey or some other drivel and now a guy needs to tie them up, spit in their face, call them names, pull their hair, and choke them...just a little. That's part of the reason my marriage failed. That's what my ex wife expected literally any time we did anything and it started to feel like a chore to me. 

I do agree with you about men though. Porn probably has a part to play in that. It's also a thing where a lot of ladies can put those porn girls to shame and if a guy has a previous partner that did that for him, he might expect it. It may just be a matter of sexual compatibility which would cause the relationship to fail like my marriage did.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> No I get it. I even posted something snarky in that one before I bowed out.
> 
> Wife: <starts giving BJ>
> <stops...>
> ...


I suppose I was trying to get a handle on it all.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Enigma32 said:


> It's not just men's expectations in the bedroom that have gotten out of hand IMO, it's everyone. I've met more than enough women over the age of 30 that come with an instruction manual on how to get them off. They read 50 Shades of Grey or some other drivel and now a guy needs to tie them up, spit in their face, call them names, pull their hair, and choke them...just a little. That's part of the reason my marriage failed. That's what my ex wife expected literally any time we did anything and it started to feel like a chore to me.
> 
> I do agree with you about men though. Porn probably has a part to play in that. It's also a thing where a lot of ladies can put those porn girls to shame and if a guy has a previous partner that did that for him, he might expect it. It may just be a matter of sexual compatibility which would cause the relationship to fail like my marriage did.


Well I thank you for that. I’m someone who always took care of my man. He strayed anyway. She was younger..no surprise. No kids…no responsibility. I have said here before I don’t want a relationship. I just wonder what men expect sexually. Apparently it’s a show. I’m too old for that crap. I have toys that don’t expect anything and shut the **** up when I am done with them. I seriously think men overestimate their worth sexually now a days. This “woke” culture has made y’all a pass time 😂


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torn I mean... I am under no illusions that my stuff is on point. If I need to use toys to get her over the top I am making sure the USB is plugged in so it is charged.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Torn I mean... I am under no illusions that my stuff is on point. If I need to use toys to get her over the top I am making sure the USB is plugged in so it is charged.


There was a time when no toys were needed. I lived that generation so what are you doing wrong and why do men think we women are willing to settle?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> My point exactly 😂





Torninhalf said:


> Well I thank you for that. I’m someone who always took care of my man. He strayed anyway. She was younger..no surprise. No kids…no responsibility. I have said here before I don’t want a relationship. I just wonder what men expect sexually. Apparently it’s a show. I’m too old for that crap. I have toys that don’t expect anything and shut the **** up when I am done with them. I seriously think men overestimate their worth sexually now a days. This “woke” culture has made y’all a pass time 😂





Torninhalf said:


> Well I thank you for that. I’m someone who always took care of my man. He strayed anyway. She was younger..no surprise. No kids…no responsibility. I have said here before I don’t want a relationship. I just wonder what men expect sexually. Apparently it’s a show. I’m too old for that crap. I have toys that don’t expect anything and shut the **** up when I am done with them. I seriously think men overestimate their worth sexually now a days. This “woke” culture has made y’all a pass time 😂


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Feeling some sort of way today? LOL


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Feeling some sort of way today? LOL


Maybe. I’m feeling like men overestimate their sexual worth. We are arguing over VS models and ignoring toys that make y’all absolute 😂


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Numb26 said:


> 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
> 
> Feeling some sort of way today? LOL


That dude saying I want my wife to moan like a porn star while blowing me can just grab a toy and replicate any orgasms he can he can give her. 😂😂


----------



## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe. I’m feeling like men overestimate their sexual worth. We are arguing over VS models and ignoring toys that make y’all absolute 😂


If toys can make humans obsolete, then just remember there are toys for men as well. Also, some of that stuff, like the moaning during a BJ, some people actually do those things outside of porn. Maybe expectations are raised because of porn, or because previous partners did that stuff, but expectations probably are up. I mean, my GF does some things that ladies in porn can't even seem to do. If things between her and I fell apart, that sort of thing might affect my expectations as well. For all I know, my ex wife might have found a guy that was into the same sort of things she was into.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Enigma32 said:


> If toys can make humans obsolete, then just remember there are toys for men as well. Also, some of that stuff, like the moaning during a BJ, some people actually do those things outside of porn. Maybe expectations are raised because of porn, or because previous partners did that stuff, but expectations probably are up. I mean, my GF does some things that ladies in porn can't even seem to do. If things between her and I fell apart, that sort of thing might affect my expectations as well. For all I know, my ex wife might have found a guy that was into the same sort of things she was into.


I know for me if you are going to critique my moans and blowjobs you can step aside. If you want to make love to me and feel my heart that is different. The whole I’m bored when my wife blows me cause she isn’t loud enough is asinine.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I know for me if you are going to critique my moans and blowjobs you can step aside. If you want to make love to me and feel my heart that is different. The whole I’m bored when my wife blows me cause she isn’t loud enough is asinine.


Honestly, the best part isn't the blow job itself, it's the 20 to 25 minutes of quiet. So I don't know why he would want noise. 🤪


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> There was a time when no toys were needed. I lived that generation so what are you doing wrong and why do men think we women are willing to settle?


I remember those times. It turns out everyone is lazy. If you can get off in 2 minutes why take 15? She’s bringing it in. On the plus side I can say that positions where nothing would happen for her if you add the toy bing bang boom now it is popping off.

She just lost her **** because a guy rolled through the bar on a scooter with speakers built in. She has been laughing for two minutes so I ordered Patron shots for the table that will hopefully shut it down.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Honestly, the best part isn't the blow job itself, it's the 20 to 25 minutes of quiet. So I don't know why he would want noise. 🤪


Oh man... 25 minutes? Hahahhaha


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Oh man... 25 minutes? Hahahhaha


Been a long day, I need some sleep. Can't do an all nighter


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> Been a long day, I need some sleep. Can't do an all nighter


I think after about 10 minutes if I haven’t popped off the “are you building?” Questions start. It’s very accusatory and dare I say it can cause anxiety.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> That dude saying I want my wife to moan like a porn star while blowing me can just grab a toy and replicate any orgasms he can he can give her. 😂😂


This is sadly true. My wife likes the PIV with a vibrator at the same time but you can get toys that do that. Too bad for her I haven’t bought one, so she has to use me for the D part.

At least I think she hasn’t.

Maybe I need to check the credit cards and install a VAR in her vehicle.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> He wanted me to be sexy and new but he didn’t do a thing different in all those years. Why is this always one sided with men?


What convinces you it is "always"?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> So is it a direct result of the easy access to porn now? Back in the dinosaur age which I am from you had to go to a video store and duck behind the curtains to rent a pornography movie. Now all you have to do is google the letter k and up pops a site. 😉


I Googled K and a song by Cigarettes After Sex was the first thing to come up, so you were close!

I have a feeling I know which post prompted you to start this one and I really can't comprehend where that guy was coming from. The standard seemed to be if the wife wasn't gushing with joy and ecstasy during a BJ or other sexual act then he didn't want her doing it and it turned him off. That is a very quick path to plain vanilla sex and eventually no sex. Of course I want my wife to enjoy everything we are doing, but not every sexual encounter is going look like some hot and steamy sex scene from a movie. That is an unrealistic expectation. I can tell you for certain if my wife is willing to give me a BJ even though it isn't her favorite thing, but does it because she knows I like it and loves me, I'm in!. 

Expectations seem to be really screwed up. I don't know if it is porn or something else. I think it may just be a person's personality trait. Some things are just never good enough.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not sure if it is the new generation. Most know my story my husband cheated. He was 55 probably in a mid life crisis. A much younger woman. Whatever. I know for me the last few years he bored me out of my mind. Same old jokes, same flirting, same old same old same old. I’ve screwed him for 3 decades and somehow he thought I would be raring to go every time. He wanted me to be sexy and new but he didn’t do a thing different in all those years. Why is this always one sided with men?


I am always working to improve myself for me and for my wife. And I would try anything she asked me to in the bedroom.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...



Well.....I guess I have been pretty fortunate, then.... 😂

I didn't read the whole thread....Can't win? I dunno....

I have known a LOT of women that married men with unrealistic expectations themselves....Marrying "nice" guys because they treat them well, marry wealthy guys so that they can have a lifestyle, marry hardworking guys because they don't want to work hard, etc...but then cry, "they can't win", because now they actually have to not only give sex, but actually be enthusiastic about it?? FOH with that shyt...

These are the same women that if a guy decides to get some from a woman that actually desires him a thousand times more than she does, he is the Devil incarnate...."How dare he!!"..."I _let him_ have starfish sex on Christmas and Valentine's Day, what a perfect wife I am"....

I don't think it's unreasonable for a "good" guy that is doing what he should, to want his woman to actually see him as a tiger sees a bloody piece of meat when it comes to sex.....Quite frankly I'd never be with a woman unless that was my reality....I am pretty good as an individual actually...

Porn has become the whipping boy for anything that women don't like about sexuality...If you want to join that party, then go ahead....Also consider this irony....Women sit around and cry about porn and unrealistic expectations, yet a guy abandons or barely touches them in the bedroom, because she stopped giving a shyt about her appearance or grooming once the honeymoon cruise was paid for and gained 50 lbs and all she does is make excuses, then he is the bad guy?

Like i said...I dunno...I tell women all the time that you better make sure that you pick a guy that you have a STRONG sexual attraction to, even if he can't even hold down a job...Because you will get sick of the CEO quick, once the novelty of the trappings wear off and he wants to eff you all the time...


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

Both my ex husband and myself are high sex drive. Some nights he would get me to have as many orgasms in one night and then try and have more the next time haha. I couldn't walk afterwards for a bit lmao. Too exhausted and wobbly legs after 15 orgasms. I do miss that part of my ex because we were good together in bed or wherever we ended up. Sad things ended and why. We bought lots of sex toys, lingerie, stockings, oils, lotions, and he didn't have to ask if OK to try certain positions, he didn't need to, we just went with our flow and knew what we both enjoyed and wanted, needed, and wherever it lead and if it felt good together we did it. Guys if you haven't already, try and see how many orgasms you can give your wife a night, and beat that score next time. It makes sex more exciting if partner is up for it. Make her feel special and relaxed and say let's play a game lol. Let's see how many orgasms I can get you to have in one night. Then you can share your results with the other men haha. Then try and beat that score the next time. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not sure if it is the new generation. Most know my story my husband cheated. He was 55 probably in a mid life crisis. A much younger woman. Whatever. I know for me the last few years he bored me out of my mind. Same old jokes, same flirting, same old same old same old. I’ve screwed him for 3 decades and somehow he thought I would be raring to go every time. He wanted me to be sexy and new but he didn’t do a thing different in all those years. Why is this always one sided with men?





Torninhalf said:


> Good question. Men have any answers for Ally?


Sure, some lingerie, is very erotic. Men have got decades of movies and TV commercials and mags re-enforcing the idea that women love lingerie. Why wouldn't a man think women love lingerie?..unless she told him.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I must say, and I will...

This Thread crushed My Spirit.

I cannot handle bitter.

Life is too short and precious.

And, seemingly lost, on so many.

True love and desire may be that Myth.

I write Myths, my likeness stars in them. 

Yes, their stars are forever crossed.

Such a gentle soul I am, in this lion's world.

The Typist-


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> Well.....I guess I have been pretty fortunate, then.... 😂
> 
> I didn't read the whole thread....Can't win? I dunno....
> 
> ...


Yes. A man who complains there are no good women is considered a loser, but a woman who complains there are no good men is praised for her high standards. IMO they are the same, and I don't agree w/ either of them.

If I choose a crappy mate that isn't the female gender's fault. A man may fail at a thousand things, but he only becomes a failure when he blames others.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> I must say, and I will...
> 
> This Thread crushed My Spirit.
> 
> ...


Well I certainly didn’t mean to crush anyone’s spirt. 😔


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Further, men were made to be jacked up on testosterone and sexual frustration. The modern man feels a tinge of frustration, clicks up a porn fantasy, and wastes his mojo on an illusion. He’s like a relaxed, teddy bear wussy for the rest of the day. A man all satisfied with porn and masturbation is afraid to fight, suffer, or take risks.


You and I disagree on a lot. But I could have written this myself. 

For a lot of men, porn is their lover and their primary source of sexuality and their partner is an after thought that might get whatever is left over in the bottom of the tank. 

For some men, their partner is even an annoyance and an interference that gets in the way of their true love and so they develop a resentment much the the resentment that a WS can feel towards a BS. 

I can remember the porn wars of the 1980s where the moralists, feminists and church ladies were trying to get porn banned and criminalized. Their argument was porn would turn men into insatiable rapists and sex maniacs that would take to the streets in a sexual frenzy and that women would need to baracaded into underground survival bunkers for their own safety.

But what it has actually created is passive, basement dwellers that sit in front of glowing rectangles relieving their own energies and drive, resulting in lack of interest in flesh and blood women and often having ED when they do try.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The worst punishment is isolation, certainly one that is self-imposed. 

The opposite sex is meant to complement you, not to torment you.

The opposite sex, ideally, completes you.

Ideal, is that dream, yes, it is a rare thing, it seen and realized.

Ah, a rare thing found while in that state: alert, "awoken".

Life has a way of taking those day dreams away, making them nightmares; that soon sad, present reality. 

While, we must never rely, solely, on hope, we should never abandon the notion of it.

Hope is it's own Clarion Horn. 

Sometimes it blows in your favor. But only if your mind and your ears search, seek it out.

Desire lights that same feeling in those near, hopefully, with they, soon, like-wise become, interesting, interested.

May those desires be sweet, leaving that bitter, un-shared, un-tasted by those undeserving of that, your pain.


The Typist-


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think some men don't "get" the transitions you go through in married life. I didn't. You always tend to remember the great times when you were young, had beautiful bodies and sex was hot. Then come jobs, marriage, mortgages, kids... our sex life was good, but not enough for me. Twice a month was just miserable. I wish we got divorced then. Some honesty would have been good.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Patience is often our only defense against disappointment.

Patience is Hope's strength.

Waiting for the right man seems a Fools Quest, and it may be. 

So...you need not enter a man's lair; window shopping and light faire is good for the soul and wastes not that rare meeting of souls. 

Mingle, not mangle your good will against any man that comes calling.

Each, knows what the other wants.
That, only leaves the dance.


The Typist-


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Wearing lingerie is an act of love.. performed by a wife to please her husband. It’s sort of no different than wearing lipstick- right?


Doing something to please your mate is an act of love, and for some couples it's as you describe. Of course, different people like different things.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I think some men don't "get" the transitions you go through in married life. I didn't. You always tend to remember the great times when you were young, had beautiful bodies and sex was hot. Then come jobs, marriage, mortgages, kids... our sex life was good, but not enough for me. Twice a month was just miserable. I wish we got divorced then. Some honesty would have been good.


There is an old saying that goes - " A woman marries a man thinking he will change. A man marries a woman thinking she won't change." 

I am guilty of this to a degree. My wife assumed I would settle well into a provider and father role......... I didn't. 

I thought she would remain the hot, sexy, funloving, playful sex kitten she was before kids..... she didn't. 

Now on an intellectual and rational level I knew that things would change with the passage of time and kids and careers and mortgages etc and had no dellusions that life would remain the same as when we were young and single. 

But where I was wrong was I significantly underestimated how much things would change and I really underestimated the impact it would have on me and just how much I would be effected by it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> There is an old saying that goes - " A woman marries a man thinking he will change. A man marries a woman thinking she won't change."
> 
> I am guilty of this to a degree. My wife assumed I would settle well into a provider and father role......... I didn't.
> 
> ...


My experience too. Especially the bolded bit.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


I haven't read all 8 pages of discussion yet but wanted to reply to the original questions. 

In a way, I am kind of one of the guys you mention in my post. My marriage is many regards is stable. We don't fight. There's no abuse. No alcohol or drug issues. We are cordial towards one another. We both coparent well and are both loving and supportive parents to our children etc etc

Sexually,,,,, well things get a little more complicated there. We used to have an extraordinary sex life at various times. In looking back, it was kind of a roller coaster ride. In the early days we were the typical horny rabbits that couldn't keep our hands off of each other and anything goes day or night. Sometimes multiple times a day. 

When kids came, it was night and day difference and there was a number years of serious drought. But the kids were little and I expected a drop off in our sexuality - I just didn't expect it to be as bad as it was or how much that drop off would effect me. 

after a few years, her libido came back and we were starting to connect again. 

We were late bloomers and didn't have kids until she was mid 30s and I was almost 40. When the kids were getting old enough to feed and dress and toilet themselves and were getting old enough to leave with sitters or grandparents for a weekend, Mrs Old was approaching menopause and that middle age/pre menopause libido kicked in and breathed new life into sex life and we even got into swinging for a number of years. 

At one point as the peri-menopause was kicking in she was being treated with hormonal therapy and testosterone injections - that was like living on porno set for about a year. 

Then she was talken off the hormones, menopause kicked in fully and she began having other issues like chronic migraines, anxiety etc and has been on a whole host of medications that i can't even keep up with. 

And then everything came crashing down. The party was over. Today several years later and she is not even recognizable to the person she was before. It's like she was abducted by aliens and replaced with a pod person. 

Now like the men you speak of, if I were to ask nicely and she didn't have anything else going on like any of her TV shows where people sing in front of judges or something critical going on like seeing what people are eating on Facebook, she would lay there looking at the clock and let me masturbate with her body for awhile while she tells me to hurry up, and then the second I'm done push me away and run to the shower to decontaminate. 

So yes, she would do a "wifely duty" and allow me to have an orgasm,,, but it is every bit as tasteful to her as cleaning the toilet after a bad night of Chipotle. The juice isn't worth the squeeze. Yes, we could have sex tonight if I pushed the issue but it would be very distasteful and unappealing for both of us and instead of feeling closer and more bonded afterwards, we would be feel more distant and gross. 

I don't see it as a case of "never enough". I see it as becoming distasteful and dysfunctional and distressing for both of us. 

And yes, we have been to two different MCs on different occasions and yes she is under the care of multiple doctors and yes, we have had hundreds of "talks." All of it causes more distress and resentment and discord than before. 

....I'll continue more later.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> There is much dispute over porn and it’s effect on sexuality. Do y’all think it has slanted how men view sexual relations? The over the top moaning and groaning?
> The images of women acting as she is devouring the best steak she has ever eaten in her life? That crap just isn’t real but somehow I feel it has made women out to be inferior if they don’t perform that way especially after decades of marriage. It is a bit disheartening to be honest.
> 
> Thoughts?


Now as far as porn is concerned, I have very mixed feelings and think it is a much more complex and nuanced topic than what people even generally think. 

First off, I am not an anti porn crusader like Catholic Dad or Diana et al. I think porn can have it's place and under certain applications it can even be apositive force and have some benefits. 

HOWEVER, I am in complete agreement with @CatholicDad 's assertion above about the role of porn in the passivity and lack of initiative in men. 

What I do not know is whether porn is creating unrealistic expectations or whether porn is creating men that are happy to just sit there looking at a glowing rectangle and take care of themselves and are thus satiated and content and lose their natural assertiveness and initiative. 

Your complaint in your opening post was that men aren't ever satisfied. Well the older and hopefully wiser I get, I wonder if men are ever even supposed to be satisfied or if we were put here on earth to always strive for more and for better. If people were satisfied, we would have footpaths through the woods instead of super highways. If people were satisfied we'd have grass huts and not pyramids and skyscrapers. If people were satisfied we'd have donkeys and not trucks, ships, and airplanes. If people were satisfied with life here on earth we would not have space programs, satililites or moon landings. 

If we were satisfied with our sex lives, we would have sex with our high school prom date, crap out a kid and never have sex again until we decided we needed another kid. 

Men go to war for sex. Men kill and die for sex. Men build pyramids and skyscapers and rocket ships to the moon for sex. Men get up and go to work in a job they don't particular care for for sex. Men marry, have homes and children and families for sex. It's what makes the world go 'round. 

If men are completely sexually satisfied and satiated, they sit in their mom's basement playing video games all day eating Hot Pockets. 

I do see porn contributing to the passification of men (if passification is a word)

BUT, I question whether it creates unrealistic expectations in the pure sense of the word. OK yes, hanging from the ceiling with whips and chains being dipped in a vat of Ramen Noodles while circus midgets dance around is unrealistic. 

But is your garden variety boy has sex with girl scene unrealistic??? I don't think so. 

I think one of the things that is disquieting about porn is it hits a lot closer to home than what we want it to be. Porn is a depiction of when horny, attractive people get with other horny, attractive people with whom they are attracted to. It may be a bit glamorized and embellished a bit for the camera and the camera may try to avoid the warts and pimples on the butt if possible, but the general depiction is often real. 

Porn is a spectator sport where the nerds stand along the gym wall and watch the jocks and cheerleaders dance. It's the uninitiative watching the sexy people have fun. 

At a primal evolutionary level, it is the inferior of the species watching the superior procreate while their own genetic bloodline comes to end. 

Here is the million dollar question that we all need to lay awake at night asking ourselves - Is porn an unrealistic fantasy that gives people unrealistic expectations?? Or is porn a standard that we should strive to achieve???

I would challenge that if your sex life looks absolutely NOTHING like a garden variety man/woman scene in porn, you may have an issue on your hands. 

Porn is reasonably healthy people with intact sex drives getting with another reasonably healthy person with a sex drive and having sex. If your bedroom with a living, breathing partner doesn't at least somewhat resemble that, you probably have an issue somewhere. 

Other than the clearly outlandish stuff that is intentionally made to be bizarre to appeal to a tiny niche market - porn is real. It's a depiction of what horny, sexually empowered people do with horny, sexually empowered people that they find desirable. 

So let's bring this back around to your question - is porn a villain that creates unrealistic expectations and harms otherwise good and healthy relationships? 

Or is it a depiction of what robust, healthy people who are sexually attracted to each other do,, even though it may be a bit glamorized and prettied up for the camera for entertainment purposes?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Or is it a depiction of what robust, healthy people who are sexually attracted to each other do,, even though it may be a bit glamorized and prettied up for the camera for entertainment purposes?


An example of what I am talking about here is like those fishing shows on the outdoor networks. 

They are showing actual skilled and competent fishermen using actual fishing tackle and techniques catching actual fish. One would be wise to learn from them and try to emulate them at least to some degree to develop one's own fishing skills and techniques. 

However what the fishing show is NOT showing is the fisherman accidently burying a fish hook into his thumb, or showing him get his lute stuck on a snag and breaking his line. Nor is it showing him digging a bunch of muddy worms out of a styrofoam cup or is it showing him catching a dozen bullheads or carp for every trophy bass he holds up infront of the camera. 

An most importantly, in the half hour show being broadcast, it shows him catch fish after fish rather than showing the hours and hours he actually spent casting his line without a bit or reeling in a big wad of seaweed or an old rubber boot. 

In that regard yes, porn is unrealistic if it is showing a sanitised and idealised depiction. But like the fishing show, is the general message and concept sound???


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

In porn it often feels like the women are pretending to enjoy it a lot more than they probably are. I think this may give some men, mainly those who begin watching porn at a young age before they have any real sexual experience themselves, an unrealistic idea of what actually turns women on and makes them feel good physically. Of course, there are some over the top male moaners too, which is almost worse than the women, but at least they actually orgasm so you know they enjoyed it to some extent. Sometimes the level of moaning and groaning that’s being done in response to whatever the man is doing to the woman is just ridiculous and you know she cannot be getting as much pleasure from it as she’s pretending to. I mean, sometimes it’s laughable (not the actual women moaning but what the men are doing...like a dog licking my hand would feel better than whatever some of these guys in porn are doing that’s supposed to make the women feel soooo good). So does this give men the idea that doing some of these things they see in porn should have women moaning and groaning and begging for it when in actuality some of this stuff isn’t going to get most women’s motors going at all. But the men think they’re doing everything right because it’s what’s making all of these women in porno dripping wet. They don’t learn by doing, they learn by watching. I feel like you need real life practice to become really good at sex and pleasuring your partner...you can’t just watch. 

I think the most genuine porn you’re going to see is that made by amateurs and real couples. But as far as porn actors and actresses ACTING in “professional” porn movies, I don’t think most of those women are having true orgasms on screen whilst the men do practically every time. How many porn vids do you see where the women are moaning and acting very into it but you never see any clitoral stimulation going on or you see the women either half heartedly tapping at the area or overzelously rubbing it in no way I’ve ever experienced during real, satisfying sex...seems over dramatic the way some women rub at their clitoris in porn and I can’t imagine how you’re really making it feel good. Anyway, since science tells us that the majority of women don’t orgasm through penetration alone, you just know that a lot of the moaning is fake when their clits aren’t even being touched in any way during the entire clip!

And I say this as somebody who enjoys watching porn solo, enjoys watching porn with my husband, and does not like to participate in quiet, moan-free sex. I’m just very picky with what I watch and what turns me on. A lot of it is horribly done, horribly acted, and why are so many of the men so incredibly unattractive???? I’ve never seen a man in porn and found him attractive, actually. I like when the men’s faces aren’t shown because I find most to be ugly. I rather look at the woman who 9/10 is more attractive than the man by leaps and bounds. I’d be faking all my moans too if I was a beautiful woman forced to have sex with a man with a weird looking d!ck (yes, o think a lot of d!cks in porn are gross looking and I wonder how they got the job) and an ogre face.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Also, not every woman wears lingerie only to please men. I enjoy wearing it because it makes me feel good. I like the way it looks and feels. I enjoy wearing it under my clothes when I’m doing boring things like working or grocery shopping and knowing I have it on 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Now as far as porn is concerned, I have very mixed feelings and think it is a much more complex and nuanced topic than what people even generally think.
> 
> First off, I am not an anti porn crusader like Catholic Dad or Diana et al. I think porn can have it's place and under certain applications it can even be apositive force and have some benefits.
> 
> ...


The majority of porn is two or more people acting. Apparently many porn actresses hate sex and many were abused as children. It's not real life in anyway.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> The majority of porn is two or more people acting. Apparently many porn actresses hate sex and many were abused as children. It's not real life in anyway.


Women that were abused as children, hate sex and are pretending when they have to have it, describes countless wives across the globe in real life. 

so what you've described IS unfortunately real life. 

One could argue that real life is worse than porn because at least in porn they are being paid for it. 

So I will again pose the broader question of whether porn is the villain or is it depicting something that we should be striving for? 

Should we as a society accept that women hate sex and only do it to keep a roof over their heads - or should we be striving to make it enjoyable and pleasurable and positive for them?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cici1990 said:


> Also, not every woman wears lingerie only to please men. I enjoy wearing it because it makes me feel good. I like the way it looks and feels. I enjoy wearing it under my clothes when I’m doing boring things like working or grocery shopping and knowing I have it on 🤷🏼‍♀️


And that is what makes it sexy for me as a man!!!!!

Lingerie in and of itself does not turn me on. Any woman can put on an article of clothing but if it makes her feel dumb and awkward and silly, it does nothing for me - is a big turn off in fact. 

But if it makes someone feel special and feel sexy and it is part of her expressing her own sexuality - MAJOR TURN ON!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Women that were abused as children, hate sex and are pretending when they have to have it, describes countless wives across the globe in real life.
> 
> so what you've described IS unfortunately real life.
> 
> ...


Porn could never depict anything that I would want to strive for.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

I want to thank everyone for their input! So many opinions and valid points. 😁👊


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cici1990 said:


> And I say this as somebody who enjoys watching porn solo, enjoys watching porn with my husband, and does not like to participate in quiet, moan-free sex. I’m just very picky with what I watch and what turns me on. A lot of it is horribly done, horribly acted, and why are so many of the men so incredibly unattractive???? I’ve never seen a man in porn and found him attractive, actually. I like when the men’s faces aren’t shown because I find most to be ugly. I rather look at the woman who 9/10 is more attractive than the man by leaps and bounds. I’d be faking all my moans too if I was a beautiful woman forced to have sex with a man with a weird looking d!ck (yes, o think a lot of d!cks in porn are gross looking and I wonder how they got the job) and an ogre face.


This is just kind of a reflection of reality - human males are not visually appealing creatures. They were put here for utility and labor, not visual arts. 

In the animal world it is often the males that are the pretty ones and the females are plain. It is the boys that have the bright plummage and the grand manes of fur and the spectacular display of atlers and bright colors etc. That is probably so they will be seen and eaten by the predators first so that the plain looking mother with the babies in the nest survives but that's another topic. 

Most men are not good looking. Most women only find a very tiny percentage of men sexually appealing on visuals alone. 
In days of yore when women's sexuality was almost completely controlled by others, a lot of women probably went their whole lives never having sex with someone they found hot and most men probably went their whole lives never being with a woman who found them hot. 

That's changing as women become more sexually empowered and the societal restrictions on women's sexuality is loosening. Women are able to get with the hot guys more now, but they're having to stand in line and they are often not going to ride off into the sunset with them because the men that are very good looking are probably not going to settle for just one woman.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Porn could never depict anything that I would want to strive for.


I think you are a bit off topic. I believe you probably have an active and healthy sex life as it is and what works for you.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cici1990 said:


> I think the most genuine porn you’re going to see is that made by amateurs and real couples. But as far as porn actors and actresses ACTING in “professional” porn movies, I don’t think most of those women are having true orgasms on screen whilst the men do practically every time. How many porn vids do you see where the women are moaning and acting very into it but you never see any clitoral stimulation going on or you see the women either half heartedly tapping at the area or overzelously rubbing it in no way I’ve ever experienced during real, satisfying sex...seems over dramatic the way some women rub at their clitoris in porn and I can’t imagine how you’re really making it feel good. Anyway, since science tells us that the majority of women don’t orgasm through penetration alone, you just know that a lot of the moaning is fake when their clits aren’t even being touched in any way during the entire clip!


There is a shift taking place in the porn world. A lot of what is coming into the porn sites now is self-produced and self-managed and self-distributed. 

There stereotypical porn scenario that all of us of a certain age grew up with was the fat, greasy, corrupt and manipulative porn producer who targeted young, naive, drug addicts from broken homes and promised them a future as a star in Hollywood and then made millions off of their bodies in porn while he paid them in coke and heroin and maybe a few hundred extra in cash that they could use for more coke. 

The fat, gross porn producers were the ones with the technology in the cameras and sound equipment and studios and who had the connections to distribute the material to the greater audience. 

That business model is not being turned upside down. Anyone with an iphone can now produce and distribute their own material and make up their own business model. 

Now it is your common couple and man and woman on the street producing their own flavor of porn. The fat, greasy Hollywood porn producer is going the way of the dodo bird. 

There is always going to be porn of the 19 year old hardbody screaming in fake ecstasy - but the difference is it is going to be the 19 year old hardbody that is making it herself and taking in the money herself. 

My prediction is in 10 the porn market is going to almost all female operated and generated and the profits will be going into female pockets. 

It will still be largely male-oriented because males are the paying customers in the end. But the gullible, naive actors that will be getting played in order to line the pockets of the producers will be the guys. The guys will be getting drawn into it for basically free because they want to have sex and while the 19 year old chick makes the profits, the guys will be walking away with an empty tank and maybe some cash for beer in their pockets. 

Young women are making thousands of dollars a month selling bottles of their bath water, selling their worn underwear and dirty socks. 

Women are the ones flocking into porn and knocking on the doors of the producers at the moment. In another 10 years, THEY are going to be the producers of it themselves.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I am not sure if porn gave me unrealistic expectations.

I know that now pushing 50 I am having the most satisfying sex I have ever had namely because I know a lot more about what I am doing and I think I dialed back the asshole maybe by 20% or so and that was enough for my wife to open up more.

Since stopping looking at porn and stopping self care it has been harsh at times.

I drank too much yesterday and passed out. It wasn’t a lot but when you go out with a certified champ you have to at least show up.

When I woke up the Mrs was watching some show on Netflix and I was like hey come to bed. “I’m in the middle of a show.” I woke up at like 2am and she’s in bed tapping away on her phone screen. Son of a... so now I am on day number 3 with nothing.

We have brunch and it’s hot outside so we sit outdoors. Orange Theory lets out next door and hot sweaty ladies pour out in their yoga pants. DAMN... Even worse I hear a “hey CCP” and it’s my boy who works at Orange Theory I used to box with who has a massive smile on his face. I know why after seeing all the ladies pour out of his class.

Then in the grocery store after hot ladies everywhere. Or are they? I don’t even know because I haven’t had sex for over 2 days. Everyone looks good.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> I am not sure if porn gave me unrealistic expectations.
> 
> I know that now pushing 50 I am having the most satisfying sex I have ever had namely because I know a lot more about what I am doing and I think I dialed back the asshole maybe by 20% or so and that was enough for my wife to open up more.
> 
> ...


Well today isn’t over. 😉


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Well today isn’t over. 😉


Lol I am not feeling confident. She saw me do an amazing brutal workout including jump rope tricks and everything. I mean if I was watching it I’d do me, but somehow I remain skeptical.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Lol I am not feeling confident. She saw me do an amazing brutal workout including jump rope tricks and everything. I mean if I was watching it I’d do me, but somehow I remain skeptical.


😂 Women…


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Lol I am not feeling confident. She saw me do an amazing brutal workout including jump rope tricks and everything. I mean if I was watching it I’d do me, but somehow I remain skeptical.


Maybe you should tell her that?

If she won't do you then you will?

🤔


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

God I can't imagine never getting myself off. I have a satisfying sex life, but sometimes nothing is better than just taking 45 minutes to work myself up and orgasm over and over and then drift off into a wonderful nap in the middle of the afternoon. Sometimes I just don't want to have to worry about pleasing another person.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> God I can't imagine never getting myself off. I have a satisfying sex life, but sometimes nothing is better than just taking 45 minutes to work myself up and orgasm over and over and then drift off into a wonderful nap in the middle of the afternoon. Sometimes I just don't want to have to worry about pleasing another person.


Well get it done girl because your days of 45 minutes of self pleasure and then a nap are coming to a grinding halt. 😂😉


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe you should tell her that?
> 
> If she won't do you then you will?
> 
> 🤔


If she’s not coming to bed tonight then I am going to get up at 4am and run 10 miles.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Well get it done girl because your days of 45 minutes of self pleasure and then a nap are coming to a grinding halt. 😂😉


In the near future I'll probably be overjoyed to just get the nap part in.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> In the near future I'll probably be overjoyed to just get the nap part in.


Indeed


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Cici1990 said:


> Sometimes I just don't want to have to worry about pleasing another person.


I think this above is a major factor with the guys that spank to porn all the time but shy away from real sex with a real woman. 

Porn doesn't ask anything of you or need to be accommidated at all.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I think this above is a major factor with the guys that spank to porn all the time but shy away from real sex with a real woman.
> 
> Porn doesn't ask anything of you or need to be accommidated at all.


Porn doesn't:

Have a headache
Ask why you always want sex
Turn you down for not taking the trash out
Bring up something you said three weeks ago as a reason they are not in the mood
Tell you "later" and then fall asleep
Say "We just had sex!" when it reality it was 4 days ago
Tell you "Ok but lets make it quick"


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Porn doesn't:
> 
> Have a headache
> Ask why you always want sex
> ...


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> *HOWEVER, I am in complete agreement with @CatholicDad 's assertion above about the role of porn in the passivity and lack of initiative in men.*
> 
> ,, even though it may be a bit glamorized and prettied up for the camera for entertainment purposes?


While practically anything in life can be abused and turned to a negative, this idea that porn ruins someone as far as sex/drive can be debated till the cows come home...Yes, porn can be abused...so can junk food, hobbies, and a lot of other things too numerous to mention...and they will have an equally detrimental effect on a relationship...

It's been widely studied that in fact viewing images of pornography actually *increases test levels* in men...As someone that has spent decades in strength training, it's also believed that viewing pornography actually increases a man's ability to perform in competitions...

Practically every guy my fathers age, including my own father, had porn stashes....And quite frankly there was far more go go joints and other related businesses that catered to this back then as opposed to now...Heck, strip joints are pretty much extinct now.., yet this is somehow a new phenomenon??

Nope...

The problem with the men of the last few generations has more to do with the explosion of autism in males and the unexplained falloff in natural testosterone levels...For a lot of these guys, porn is probably their only option, because getting a live woman to willingly touch their genitals is like a lottery...


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> It's been widely studied that in fact viewing images of pornography actually *increases test levels* in men...As someone that has spent decades in strength training, it's also believed that viewing pornography actually increases a man's ability to perform in competitions...


Now I know what I am gonna tell all the young guys in the gym when they ask for advice for adding to their bench. Watch more porn, bro.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I like the points @oldshirt makes. Definitely a guy I could have a beer with. One of the few guys here that doesn't attack the church or priests when I get carried away on my porn rants. lol
> 
> I think the one thing consistently missed in everyone's acceptance of porn though is the possibility that God might be real. What are the odds of that to everyone: 1%, 5%, 10% or higher?
> 
> ...


OK He exists...

So now, what does God do for all these guys that no women would touch if they were the last person on Earth? there are TONS of them out there, you know....TONS.....

How do they "release all this powerful God given energy" as you say, if God doesn't want them to view sexy women and get themselves off? Not all of them have wives or girlfriends and even if they did does God want those poor women to become sexual slaves to these guys with all this powerful and unyielding energy stored up by not getting off or not watching porn? Do these women have any rights to refuse if they don't feel like it?

And does God think it's ok for people and children to be abused in horrifyingly unfair and abusive working conditions to provide the clothes on your back and the food in your cupboard, but we all must protect the sex workers at all costs(despite many doing so at their own will and heavily compensated)?? Is God selective like that??

Also wonder what God would think if there was no easy outlet for most of these men, and this "powerful God given force" was then unleashed on random and unsuspecting women in the form of rape, sexual assault, etc at a rate FAR greater than what is already bad enough right now?? Would that be the end justifying the means?

Get with the priest and let us know what he thinks about it...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> OK He exists...
> 
> So now, what does God do for all these guys that no women would touch if they were the last person on Earth? there are TONS of them out there, you know....TONS.....
> 
> ...


Firstly you don't need porn to masturbate. Secondly very few men end up never getting married or being in a relationship so not sure where all these many men who no woman would touch are. 

You seem to have a very low opinion of men if you think that having no porn would force them go out and rape women. Especially as most sex attackers and sex abusers are also prolific porn users.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Firstly you don't need porn to masturbate. Secondly very few men end up never getting married or being in a relationship so not sure where all these many men who no woman would touch are.
> 
> You seem to have a very low opinion of men if you think that having no porn would force them go out and rape women. Especially as most sex attackers and sex abusers are also prolific porn users.


You are a nice woman Diana, but you need to get out a little more...

Its widely reported that guys over the last few decades are not only not getting married, not leaving their parents houses, not finding women, etc...Heck, I know of a few in my own family....

Women are now blowing the doors off a lotta guys in terms of education and earning power...All those women of the past that had to subject themselves to the prospect of choosing a guy rather than be out in the street are now dinosaurs...With women now being more independent of men, and subsequently far more selective, a lot of guys are left holding their peckers now...

Most of the men of my age group, including myself, in my family were married before 25....I have probably 20 plus guys that are nephews in this age group and NONE of them are married and most don't have steady gf"s...I also have a crew of guys in this age range....same thing....Get out more...or read some of the news..its out there and heavily reported...

If a guy is masturbating without porn to porn like images, is it not the same thing? Isn't masturbation forbidden in your religion anyway? It's not a matter of low opinion, but just a hunch on my part...I could be wrong, but I doubt it...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Firstly you don't need porn to masturbate.


No but it sure does make it easier! 

Men are visual, they want to see something to get them going!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> OK He exists...
> 
> So now, what does God do for all these guys that no women would touch if they were the last person on Earth? there are TONS of them out there, you know....TONS.....
> 
> ...


In a roundabout way, this is kinda like I was talking about in a previous post. 

30 years ago people were saying we needed to ban porn because it would turn men into raving sex maniacs and rapists and child molesters.

Now here we are 2021 and you are saying the lack of porn will turn men into rapists. 

This argument has been in regards to strip clubs and prostitution. One side says it leads to moral decline and rape, and the other side says it helps to prevent it. 

Seems to me if men could just be decent human beings and learn to relate to women as human beings that could take care of the rape issue as decent men don’t rape people, and it would help men get partners and have sex.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

hamadryad said:


> It's been widely studied that in fact viewing images of pornography actually *increases test levels* in men...As someone that has spent decades in strength training, it's also believed that viewing pornography actually increases a man's ability to perform in competitions...


Not arguing, just asking a question - did these studies include dudes spanking and having orgasm?

I can see how viewing some lively porn could get a little boost in the T levels and get a guy revved up a little and I could buy off on a T test at that time could a little boost in T levels at that time. 

But what about after rubbing one out? What about after the tank has been drained? 

How many guys are perfectly happy to sit in their game chair playing Fortnight and munching on Hot Pockets after a good spank?

What are their T levels gonna show then? 

The point Catholic Dad and I were making is that guys that relieve themselves all the time are happy to just sit there and keep to themselves and play their video games and not pursue a more demanding career than stocking shelves at Wal Mart or getting out and actually meeting and talking to real women. 

Let the pressure and the tension build. 

A guy with a full tank will be more motivated to hit the gym and get in shape, get a new stylish wardrobe to display that shape, pursue a more respectable and better paying career. Etc 

And he would likely get to the point of talking to, getting to know and dating girls long before he would turn to raping them. 

But a guy satiated by porn every day is happy to light a doobie and just sit there.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


God, I love your posts. Straight to the point. Always blunt. I can totally see why your early 30's neighbor wanted you to stop by for dinner. 

Now, can you please stop getting your A** banned?! I get bored in here when we have to wait 30 days in between your bannings  

I think if you spend some time in the dead bedrooms forums you'll get a better answer. I think it is more about sexual compatibility. If the two people aren't at least somewhat close to their desire of frequency and quality, things go sour. Even if you read a story about a man getting regular sex that complains it isn't enough is more than likely a compatibility issue. I completely understand your point. I can understand why you feel "sometimes women just can't win", but to that I'd say head over to reddit and read the dead bedrooms threads. There are more women in there disgusted with the low sex drive of their men than the reverse. This is actually an equal opportunity issue whereas I used to think just like you: the men complained they weren't getting it enough. 

As for the porn issue, I feel like I am actually lucky on this one, or I feel like I've always looked at porn in a logical way. At the same time, I'm apparently in the minority in the way I view it. I think porn is a tool. I have a job to do and it is the tool I need to complete the job. I would consider myself as having a very high sex drive. My preference would be twice a day, sometimes 3. My wife knows this as well. She is not bothered I look at porn. She actually welcomes it so that I don't drive her insane. My preference will ALWAYS be my wife. No question. The real thing. I love my wife. I still passionately desire her after being with her for 20 years. I ask for sex on a daily basis. If my wife is game, fantastic. Then I'll ask her again a few hours later. If she is game again, super fantastic! I love double feature days! If she is not, she will shoe me away. Sometimes she will tell me to look at porn and take care of it so I stop bothering her. No problem. Like I said, it is a tool. It is not real. It is a fantasy. I don't expect anything in porn to mimic real life - just the same as I wouldn't think movies are real life either. I will say though my favorite days is when she lies to me that she isn't in the mood, then comes over to interrupt me. Man, I love that! Porn gets immediately ignored as my wife beats that any day of the week!

I also don't care for duty sex. I will turn to porn for those times as well. I am not interested if my wife doesn't want me. She isn't a tool to get me off. It feels disrespectful. I am just as excited to get her off as for myself. I'm there for the passion because she also wants me - not just me wanting her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Well I thank you for that. I’m someone who always took care of my man. He strayed anyway. She was younger..no surprise. No kids…no responsibility. I have said here before I don’t want a relationship. I just wonder what men expect sexually. Apparently it’s a show. I’m too old for that crap. I have toys that don’t expect anything and shut the **** up when I am done with them. I seriously think men overestimate their worth sexually now a days. This “woke” culture has made y’all a pass time 😂


I'm not exactly able to pinpoint the reason, but this really made me laugh!😆


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> No but it sure does make it easier!
> 
> Men are visual, they want to see something to get them going!


Women are very visual. End TJ.😁


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

AllyCat702 said:


> Why do men also expect women to love lingerie?


Why do you expect all men to think the same way?

That would be no different than me saying "why are women hypergamous?"

Simple. Not all women are. That would be an A-hole thing to say. Sounds like your lingerie question is more of a personal problem as opposed to "all men" problem. 

However, I'll delve into the nuance of your question. I don't expect my wife to love lingerie. While I personally love it and it shows off her curves PERFECTLY, I never ask for it unless she asks for my opinion - then I'll be all too willing to add in my preferences. She knows what gets me, and she purchases exactly what will drive me nuts. Yeah, I've never purchased one piece of lingerie. She has a box full, all purchased by her.

Why? Because it makes her feel sexy. In turn, that makes me feel happy. I'm delighted when I see that my wife feels good about herself. It makes me love her that much more. 

My wife and I are middle-aged. I'll be 42 in a month and she's 41. She's expressed some discomfort and depression with herself for gaining some weight after she gave birth to our twins 9 years ago. Personally, it doesn't bother me. She is just as beautiful and sexy as the day I met her. I'm not going to make her feel worse by saying,"OK then, lose some weight." Thats gotta come from within herself. The only thing about fitness we say to each other is to stay healthy with our eating as stay active and exercise - not about looks in the bedroom, but we owe it to our kids to be healthy for them. They deserve to have parents that will be around for a long time and able to play and keep up with them and their active lives. 

However, if lingerie helps her feel better about herself, then I'll call it a good thing. A GREAT thing. Oh, and I guess I benefit from it too.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> You are a nice woman Diana, but you need to get out a little more...
> 
> Its widely reported that guys over the last few decades are not only not getting married, not leaving their parents houses, not finding women, etc...Heck, I know of a few in my own family....
> 
> ...


No masturbation isn't forbidden, that's a RC thing and I am not RC. If you never watch porn you aren't going to have hundreds of images stored in your head.

People are getting married and settling down later than they used to, and generally leaving home later( in the UK that's largely due to the very high cost of buying a home or renting), but most people do eventually find a partner. All of our children and nieces and nephews who are in their mid 20's upwards are either married or living with someone bar one who is autistic and poor at relationships in general. Nearly all of our friends kids are as well. I hardly know any adult children of people we know who are single.
Most people do end up with someone eventually, even if it's not till their 30's.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Porn is porn. Everybody knows it's fake. If a man can't tell the difference or he wants his wife to perform some freaky act he just watched, then he shouldn't have a relationship. Everybody is going to be disappointed. Especially after you've spent a few bucks on that enormous dildo (hold on... I think there is a thread about this?)


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> God, I love your posts. Straight to the point. Always blunt. I can totally see why your early 30's neighbor wanted you to stop by for dinner.
> 
> Now, can you please stop getting your A** banned?! I get bored in here when we have to wait 30 days in between your bannings
> 
> ...


Enthusiastically agree with all of this....

As for the bolded...Agreed there as well...Porn doesn't dominate my life and never has...Just like you, it's a tool...I like to think of it like I think of fast/junk food...I am a very clean eater generally, but there are times when I am just too busy or it's just too inconvenient to prepare/procure healthy food...So I occasionally stop in a burger place and get myself fed...That doesn't turn me into a junk food addict, and take away my ability to enjoy the pleasure and benefit of good food..It's really no different than that...

If you want to say that porn distorts a man's reality, then maybe they should ban pro sports and a lot of other things people like to watch, yet can't perform or relate to if their life depended on it....

I'm not a porn advocate...There was a time I used it often, now not so much..in either case it never distorted anything, created unrealistic expectations, or took away anything with my feelings and interest toward women and actual live sex...I'd imagine that quite a bit of the almost 90% of men that are reporting to use it, see it the same way...I dunno..


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Porn is porn. Everybody knows it's fake. If a man can't tell the difference or he wants his wife to perform some freaky act he just watched, then he shouldn't have a relationship. Everybody is going to be disappointed. *Especially after you've spent a few bucks on that enormous dildo (hold on... I think there is a thread about this?) *


😂 😂

Interesting take on it....Never thought of that, I guess you can also include the one's with all the bells, whistles and electrical accoutrements...lol.....and come to think of it, it's actually a great comeback to the constant banging on a lot of women do about how porn is wrecking a guys ability and ruining his expectation...


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> Enthusiastically agree with all of this....
> 
> As for the bolded...Agreed there as well...Porn doesn't dominate my life and never has...Just like you, it's a tool...I like to think of it like I think of fast/junk food...I am a very clean eater generally, but there are times when I am just too busy or it's just too inconvenient to prepare/procure healthy food...So I occasionally stop in a burger place and get myself fed...That doesn't turn me into a junk food addict, and take away my ability to enjoy the pleasure and benefit of good food..It's really no different than that...
> 
> ...


Whatever we allow to enter our minds will effect us for good or bad whether we think so it not. Why do you think ads work so well?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I don't think porn is morally wrong or anything but I do know a lot of men turn to it before things start to go downhill and then show no interest in their spouse and that is a major issue. Probably happens to some women too? I don't know. 

Do agree that it hardwires men to think that's how women should or do act in real life. Used to watch it when I was younger and what struck me was how the women are almost cartoonishly loud, and then the men (other than some "dialogue") completely QUIET. Which does not appeal to me at all. It also normalizes some pretty out there stuff because you can get your hands on pretty much anything and that bothers me. 

Demonizing porn actors and actresses is really offputting though - I have heard folks like that rail on about how morally corrupt and they are damaging society, when some especially the girls are starting underage, and many manipulated into it. You can't deny the industry, much like Hollywood is predatory when it comes to young, hot women. Do some of them use that to their advantage? Probably.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> God, I love your posts. Straight to the point. Always blunt. I can totally see why your early 30's neighbor wanted you to stop by for dinner.
> 
> Now, can you please stop getting your A** banned?! I get bored in here when we have to wait 30 days in between your bannings
> 
> ...


High praise. Thank you. 😁


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> High praise. Thank you. 😁


By the way what he’s saying about r/deadbedrooms nails it. 

I don’t know why but women are way over represented there. I haven’t visited it this year as it’s really depressing and I don’t think it’s helpful to me anymore but damn...

I did not have to get up at 4am and run 10 miles... shiggidy!


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Whatever we allow to enter our minds will effect us for good or bad whether we think so it not. *Why do you think ads work so well?*



Because they use sexy women in most cases...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Because they use sexy women in most cases...


Any ad I get on Instagram that has a brunette in a bikini selling something as the primary image is getting a click at the minimum and a lot of times I buy the product. Cue “sad but true” meme.

My wife knows this.

I told her if she wants me to do something awful just show up in a bikini and point at the job.

Edit: Late breaking, before we went out to do yard work she was in her briefs and sports bra (borderline bikini). When she asked me to dig two stumps out in the backyard that is the dream. Hot bikini girl asks for strong man with a pick axe to dig stumps.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Any ad I get on Instagram that has a brunette in a bikini selling something as the primary image is getting a click at the minimum and a lot of times I buy the product. Cue “sad but true” meme.
> 
> My wife knows this.
> 
> I told her if she wants me to do something awful just show up in a bikini and point at the job.


Same here for some ample breast/cleavage....Its a dead stop in my tracks...The news women in this area are insanely well built, and are always in something that makes you know it...


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’ve got a lot to say but the all powerful mods delete my posts at the mere mention of God- so I can’t win here.

CatholicDad wishes everyone well. I’m out.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I’ve got a lot to say but the all powerful mods delete my posts at the mere mention of God- so I can’t win here.
> 
> CatholicDad wishes everyone well. I’m out.


My mentions of not believing in gods gets deleted as well. I suppose it is a touchy subject. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Any ad I get on Instagram that has a brunette in a bikini selling something as the primary image is getting a click at the minimum and a lot of times I buy the product. Cue “sad but true” meme.


And who says targeted ads are bad? I really don't want to see, let alone buy, Spanx knockoffs. Why do I get those ads?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> By the way what he’s saying about r/deadbedrooms nails it.
> 
> I don’t know why but women are way over represented there. I haven’t visited it this year as it’s really depressing and I don’t think it’s helpful to me anymore but damn...
> 
> I did not have to get up at 4am and run 10 miles... shiggidy!


i know, right?

I know low T hits some men, but it seems like it is a pandemic! I’ve never known one man personally that wasn’t wanting sex all the time, every day. I’m an 80s kid, and every 80s and 70s man I know is just as amped up for sex like me. Reading the dead bedroom stories from women shocked me. We Talk about porn being a fantasy in this thread, but the women in r/dead bedrooms? They are straight up becoming porn stars to get the attention of their low T men. They serious act out the porn fantasy just to get some attention. They are throwing themselves at their men in the dirtiest, most stereotypical ways that men would want, and these men (should I even call them men?) don’t notice and don’t care. It makes me want to reach through my computer and shake the stupid out of them. They are failing these good women.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I have a lot to say also, but you’ll never win this gender divide. As soon as I read the first post, I knew this would be a man bashing thread. I’ve also learned never to post on a porn thread


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> 😂 😂
> 
> Interesting take on it....Never thought of that, I guess you can also include the one's with all the bells, whistles and electrical accoutrements...lol.....and come to think of it, it's actually a great comeback to the constant banging on a lot of women do about how porn is wrecking a guys ability and ruining his expectation...


I've never met a dildo that comes anywhere close to the feeling of a bonded partner's skin against mine.


joannacroc said:


> I don't think porn is morally wrong or anything but I do know a lot of men turn to it before things start to go downhill and then show no interest in their spouse and that is a major issue. Probably happens to some women too? I don't know.
> 
> Do agree that it hardwires men to think that's how women should or do act in real life. Used to watch it when I was younger and what struck me was how the women are almost cartoonishly loud, and then the men (other than some "dialogue") completely QUIET. Which does not appeal to me at all. It also normalizes some pretty out there stuff because you can get your hands on pretty much anything and that bothers me.
> 
> Demonizing porn actors and actresses is really offputting though - I have heard folks like that rail on about how morally corrupt and they are damaging society, when some especially the girls are starting underage, and many manipulated into it. You can't deny the industry, much like Hollywood is predatory when it comes to young, hot women. Do some of them use that to their advantage? Probably.


I've posted this before but one of my childhood friends runs a porn site and has for many years.

She's told me there is absolutely no shortage of women who want in....she doesn't have to exploit anyone 

Her opinion was that most of the ones who are being trafficked or otherwise exploited are either stripping or prostituting.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> I’ve got a lot to say but the all powerful mods delete my posts at the mere mention of God- so I can’t win here.
> 
> CatholicDad wishes everyone well. I’m out.


take this with a grain of salt as I can only offer my opinion.

none of my posts mentioning God have been moderated yet. I have a strong faith in my Christian belief that molds my value but I know it isn’t for everyone. I believe everyone has to make their own way in life; make their own decisions.

in my humble opinion, you “preach” when you mention God. Anything involving sexual relations, porn, men and women roles, etc. are said from a very strict point of view.

here’s what it sounds like when I read your posts “God says porn is bad. I am God’s conduit. I’m here to tell you porn is bad. There is no ambiguity here. What I say goes and you cannot refute me.” If you don’t straight up say things in a direct way, you strongly imply. 

it doesn’t bother me and I enjoy reading your perspective. I think everyone should be able to speak freely here, but I don’t make the rules. I can certainly see why people would get offended by your approach.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CharlieParker said:


> And who says targeted ads are bad? I really don't want to see, let alone buy, Spanx knockoffs. Why do I get those ads?


I get those too. I buy tons of lingerie for my wife but never yoga pants. Maybe there is crossover?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Reading the dead bedroom stories from women shocked me.


I just felt bad and depressed for them. 

Fortunately I am a charming mofo because I just hit it again although in this case the Mrs stopped me from trying to use my hands to hook her up. She is never horny in the morning.

Good thing for me my expectations are well calibrated haha.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've never met a dildo that comes anywhere close to the feeling of a bonded partner's skin against mine.
> 
> 
> I've posted this before but one of my childhood friends runs a porn site and has for many years.
> ...


I believe that purley based on the volume of porn online that is not really typical professional yet not a husband and wife filming themselves.

Not all those women you see (of all ages mind you including many in their 50s, 60s and 70s) are being forced to do it. They are doing it for the money! I read recently where since the "MILF" craze has hit, women in their 50s and 60s can make a grand for doing a one hour video. Not saying its right or wrong but I do think thats why you see so many women doing it as where else can you make $1k per hour for doing basically nothing but having sex?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> I have a lot to say also, but you’ll never win this gender divide. As soon as I read the first post, I knew this would be a man bashing thread. I’ve also learned never to post on a porn thread


most of the time I would agree with you, but I felt it was a worthwhile thread due to who was the one asking the questions.

if the questions were being asked by someone that subscribes to a certain modern woman ideology, then I would ignore and move on. They have their way of seeing things and I strongly disagree with them. I don’t find them wrong or bad, I just disagree and there won’t be a middle ground to even have a discussion.

but they aren’t asking the questions. Torninhalf was the one asking the questions.

now, I’m going to be making some assumptions here, and if I’m wrong, I respectfully request Torninhalf to set me straight.

The questions are being asked by a woman,
Who by all accounts, did everything correct and her idiot SBTXH threw it all away. Yes, her views will be corrupted and it isn’t her fault. It would be that way for anyone thrust into her position.

just to lay out some facts:

1.TIH is intelligent, cynical, can dish out punishment and can take it.
An intriguing challenge to any quality man.

2. She is most likely physically attractive as her early 30’s neighbor hits on her while TIH is 50. Impressive work to say the least.

3. she admitted in this thread that she would have physical relations on the daily.

4. she installed a mirror above her bed.


yes please!

her thought process seems completely reasonable when compared to her life experience. Her questions make sense and deserve thought provoking answers.

we have a physically attractive, intelligent Woman who has sex on the daily with a mirror above her bed. The sad truth is TIH’s “man picker” is broken. Her imbecile STBXH threw away one of the great ones and doesn’t realize it. I can understand why she has been soured to men.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> most of the time I would agree with you, but I felt it was a worthwhile thread due to who was the one asking the questions.
> 
> if the questions were being asked by someone that subscribes to a certain modern woman ideology, then I would ignore and move on. They have their way of seeing things and I strongly disagree with them. I don’t find them wrong or bad, I just disagree and there won’t be a middle ground to even have a discussion.
> 
> ...


I agree. Sounds like her ex could have been posting here about the great sex they were having but instead make a bad decision and left her behind.

Guys like that not only give men a bad name but they piss guys like me off as he had something good and bailed out on it whereas guys like me really have never had it that good. "Mirror on the ceiling" says it all to convince me he made a huge mistake.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree. Sounds like her ex could have been posting here about the great sex they were having but instead make a bad decision and left her behind.
> 
> Guys like that not only give men a bad name but they piss guys like me off as he had something good and bailed out on it whereas guys like me really have never had it that good. "Mirror on the ceiling" says it all to convince me he made a huge mistake.


This is ridicuous, no individual can give a gender a bad name.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

SpinyNorman said:


> This is ridicuous, no individual can give a gender a bad name.


What about that Bon Jovi song, maybe they can give love a bad name?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

FWIW the "all powerful mods" don't actually care if posters mention God, but often that devolves into a thread jack around religion and different beliefs around God.

If the OP has expressed a belief in God and welcomes that as part of the conversation then knock yourself out. However, preaching about what God thinks isn't helpful if the poster doesn't share your religious views.

Likewise a poster who is religious will not be helped by another's declaration of not believing in God.

If it is a general discussion and not help for an individual poster there is more leeway to interject religious beliefs, but even then be careful not to get into an argument about religion. If you wish to discuss religion either starts a thread in politica and religion or start your own thread about a subject from a religious perspective. Don't jack another's thread.


So in the interest of not thread jacking, before you start with your religious beliefs ask yourself if it's part of a general discussion or if it's going to be helpful for an original poster who is seeking help.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Coming back to your original question, I think people think far too much and talk far too much about sex - just get on with it 😆.

TIH, you do shock me at times, make me laugh at times, and are always good value for money.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> I’ve got a lot to say but the all powerful mods delete my posts at the mere mention of God- so I can’t win here.
> 
> CatholicDad wishes everyone well. I’m out.


Keep them in the religious section and all would be well.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> most of the time I would agree with you, but I felt it was a worthwhile thread due to who was the one asking the questions.
> 
> if the questions were being asked by someone that subscribes to a certain modern woman ideology, then I would ignore and move on. They have their way of seeing things and I strongly disagree with them. I don’t find them wrong or bad, I just disagree and there won’t be a middle ground to even have a discussion.
> 
> ...


Thank you for understanding where my question stemmed from. It was not to be men bashing by any stretch. I am curious as I will presumably be moving into the dating arena. Is the mirror too much? 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree. Sounds like her ex could have been posting here about the great sex they were having but instead make a bad decision and left her behind.
> 
> Guys like that not only give men a bad name but they piss guys like me off as he had something good and bailed out on it whereas guys like me really have never had it that good. "Mirror on the ceiling" says it all to convince me he made a huge mistake.


Thanks for that. I certainly feel he made a huge mistake. He lost someone who most certainly would have helped him bury bodies if need be. All for what? Some strange…It still stings.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Is the mirror too much? 😂


 Oh, Torninhalf! 😂🤣😂 You go, girl! 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> FWIW the "all powerful mods" don't actually care if posters mention God, but often that devolves into a thread jack around religion and different beliefs around God.
> 
> If the OP has expressed a belief in God and welcomes that as part of the conversation then knock yourself out. However, preaching about what God thinks isn't helpful if the poster doesn't share your religious views.
> 
> ...


I never mind a good debate. I welcome everyone’s opinion and will gladly listen to their views even if I vehemently disagree.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Oh, Torninhalf! 😂🤣😂 You go, girl! 😂


😉


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> What about that Bon Jovi song, maybe they can give love a bad name?


HA! Good one!!!


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you for understanding where my question stemmed from. It was not to be men bashing by any stretch. I am curious as I will presumably be moving into the dating arena. Is the mirror too much? 😂


All joking aside....nothing is too much as long as all parties agree


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you for understanding where my question stemmed from. It was not to be men bashing by any stretch. I am curious as I will presumably be moving into the dating arena. Is the mirror too much? 😂


Lol no way. If the dude is put off by it then... NEXT!


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

So what’s the best way to mount a mirror to the ceiling without having to worry that it’ll fall and result in death by overhead mirror? For research purposes...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Lol no way. If the dude is put off by it then... NEXT!


🤣


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> So what’s the best way to mount a mirror to the ceiling without having to worry that it’ll fall and result in death by overhead mirror? For research purposes...


HAHAHA... I was thinking about this. What happens when an earthquake rolls through and you have a glass death machine over your head?

I think I might put a large one on my side of the bed but based on recent activities it’s going to have my ass prints on it. Does Windex work well on ass prints?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> So what’s the best way to mount a mirror to the ceiling without having to worry that it’ll fall and result in death by overhead mirror? For research purposes...


Just like you would mount anything. Find the studs. 😉


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Just like you would mount anything. Find the studs. 😉


Oh man... I hung a TV recently and had the stud finder out and was swiping it over me and making beep beep sounds. Mrs was not impressed.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> HAHAHA... I was thinking about this. What happens when an earthquake rolls through and you have a glass death machine over your head?
> 
> I think I might put a large one on my side of the bed but based on recent activities it’s going to have my ass prints on it. Does Windex work well on ass prints?


From my experience, Windex works well on ALL sorts of body prints on glass. 

My closet doors used to be full floor to ceiling mirrors and ran the entire length of one wall in the bedroom. It did influence how we chose to position the bed in the room.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Oh man... I hung a TV recently and had the stud finder out and was swiping it over me and making beep beep sounds. Mrs was not impressed.


LMAO! 😂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> From my experience, Windex works well on ALL sorts of body prints on glass.
> 
> My closet doors used to be full floor to ceiling mirrors and ran the entire length of one wall in the bedroom. It did influence how we chose to position the bed in the room.


Yeah my office has that on the closet. Instead of using it as a sex mirror I use it when I’m practicing guitar which, let’s face it, pretty much the same thing for a subset of ladies which unfortunately doesn’t include my wife sadly.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah my office has that on the closet. Instead of using it as a sex mirror I use it when I’m practicing guitar which, let’s face it, pretty much the same thing for a subset of ladies which unfortunately doesn’t include my wife sadly.


I was voted most likely to become a groupie in high school. Yep they created that senior superlative for me.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

She was impressed that I used spare cardboard and a measuring tape to make a template of the TV to figure out where to put the holes and I didn’t mess up the brand new drywall. I mean I can fix networks and IT and electronics and that kind of stuff but she didn’t realize that I have TV hanging skills.

Not impressed with sweep picking arpeggios which is much harder. Is impressed with scrub level Best Buy Nerd Squad TV install.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> She was impressed that I used spare cardboard and a measuring tape to make a template of the TV to figure out where to put the holes and I didn’t mess up the brand new drywall. I mean I can fix networks and IT and electronics and that kind of stuff but she didn’t realize that I have TV hanging skills.
> 
> Not impressed with sweep picking arpeggios which is much harder. Is impressed with scrub level Best Buy Nerd Squad TV install.


Did you wear a tool belt and remove your shirt? 😂


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Did you wear a tool belt and remove your shirt? 😂


No. But I have a tank top which is basically like 1/3 of a shirt and light gray joggers that I bought one size under on purpose. Thanks @TXTrini


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> So what’s the best way to mount a mirror to the ceiling without having to worry that it’ll fall and result in death by overhead mirror? For research purposes...





Torninhalf said:


> Just like you would mount anything. Find the studs. 😉


Joists are what you have in a ceiling.

If it's in a frame, no matter how well you mount the frame you still have the possibility it will break and pieces fall out of the frame. Dunno how you address that, glue it to the back of the frame? Do they make mirrors out of safety glass?

Can't think of likely scenarios where it would break, but if it did it could get nasty.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I never mind a good debate. I welcome everyone’s opinion and will gladly listen to their views even if I vehemently disagree.


LOL, until they disagree with you and you call them mental and predators.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SpinyNorman said:


> Joists are what you have in a ceiling.
> 
> If it's in a frame, no matter how well you mount the frame you still have the possibility it will break and pieces fall out of the frame. Dunno how you address that, glue it to the back of the frame? Do they make mirrors out of safety glass?
> 
> Can't think of likely scenarios where it would break, but if it did it could get nasty.


Really never thought about it breaking. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> LOL, until they disagree with you and you call them mental and predators.


Everyone has bad days, say things they wish they haven’t.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Everyone has bad days, say things they wish they haven’t.


Apology (I think?) accepted


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Apology (I think?) accepted


Thank you for the grace.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you for understanding where my question stemmed from. It was not to be men bashing by any stretch. I am curious as I will presumably be moving into the dating arena. Is the mirror too much? 😂


NO. NEVER DOWNPLAY THE MIRROR. 

The mirror shows power. The mirror says “I don’t F*ck around”

figuratively speaking of course.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> NO. NEVER DOWNPLAY THE MIRROR.
> 
> The mirror shows power. The mirror says “I don’t F*ck around”
> 
> figuratively speaking of course.


Figuratively speaking of course. 😁


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> She was impressed that I used spare cardboard and a measuring tape to make a template of the TV to figure out where to put the holes and I didn’t mess up the brand new drywall. I mean I can fix networks and IT and electronics and that kind of stuff but* she didn’t realize that I have TV hanging skills.*
> 
> Not impressed with sweep picking arpeggios which is much harder. Is impressed with scrub level Best Buy Nerd Squad TV install.


You'd be surprised how many grown men can't accomplish something so basic. My buddy asked me to help him mount his TV on the wall. I asked him if he had a drill and he said yes. So, I showed up there and ask for his drill just for him to bust out a Black & Decker battery powered screwdriver. He acted shocked when I said that POS couldn't screw huge bolts into studs. I don't know why people buy those things. I had to go home and grab my own tools.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> You'd be surprised how many grown men can't accomplish something so basic. My buddy asked me to help him mount his TV on the wall. I asked him if he had a drill and he said yes. So, I showed up there and ask for his drill just for him to bust out a Black & Decker battery powered screwdriver. He acted shocked when I said that POS couldn't screw huge bolts into studs. I don't know why people buy those things. I had to go home and grab my own tools.


Nothing surprises me with the state of "manhood" nowadays


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> You'd be surprised how many grown men can't accomplish something so basic. My buddy asked me to help him mount his TV on the wall. I asked him if he had a drill and he said yes. So, I showed up there and ask for his drill just for him to bust out a Black & Decker battery powered screwdriver. He acted shocked when I said that POS couldn't screw huge bolts into studs. I don't know why people buy those things. I had to go home and grab my own tools.


Haha yeah I have a corded drill for drilling into studs and masonry. All I needed was a good stud finder, tape measure, box cutter, level, pencil, drill, and a socket wrench. All basic stuff everyone should have. I have been gradually building out my wrench collection.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

lifeistooshort said:


> I've never met a dildo that comes anywhere close to the feeling of a bonded partner's skin against mine.
> 
> 
> I've posted this before but one of my childhood friends runs a porn site and has for many years.
> ...


Obviously I do not work in the porn industry and have no research or statistics to back this up - but I believe what you say above to be true. 

I can't vouch for what goes on in Malaysia or Thailand etc but here in America, young women are lining up at the door to do porn all doing the "Pick Me!" Dance. There is no need for manipulation or trafficking, they are showing up in droves to do it on their own. 

And with the rise of Only Fans, Tic Toc, Instagram et al, more and more are generating and producing their own content. 

In ten years I doubt in there will even be any traditional porn production companies or traditional porn producers as all the 19 year olds will be making and producing their own.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> In ten years I doubt in there will even be any traditional porn production companies or traditional porn producers as all the 19 year olds will be making and producing their own.


Blech. For the record, I'm not in favor of porn, but regardless...the last thing we need is 19 year olds showing us how to do anything. The blind leading the blind...😂


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Twodecades said:


> Blech. For the record, I'm not in favor of porn, but regardless...the last thing we need is 19 year olds showing us how to do anything. The blind leading the blind...😂


I get your point but it won't be just 19 year olds, I just used that as an example. 

The truth is everyone from 18 year olds to 80 year olds will be producing their own content. The days of the Hollywood porn production companies will be over as a 20 year old in Lincoln Nebraska or a 50 year old in Junction City Kansas will be able to make the same things and the money will go into their own pocket. 

And when people pay 19 year olds on Only Fans, it's not for educational content. There are some 18 and 19 year olds making more money in a month than some doctors and lawyers by selling bottles of bath water and pictures of their feet and dirty underwear etc. People are shelling that money out for educational purposes.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> There are some 18 and 19 year olds making more money in a month than some doctors and lawyers by selling bottles of bath water and pictures of their feet and dirty underwear etc. People are shelling that money out for educational purposes.


??? I really don't get out (on the interwebs) much, I guess...🙂


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Blech. For the record, I'm not in favor of porn, but regardless...the last thing we need is 19 year olds showing us how to do anything. The blind leading the blind...😂


For the record, I am definitely in favor of porn…. But I agree, 19 year olds barely know how to tie their shoes. Don’t need them leading the way in anything.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Oh man... I hung a TV recently and had the stud finder out and was swiping it over me and making beep beep sounds. Mrs was not impressed.


Awww man! Classic Dad joke! I break out all of my favorites on Father’s Day. I make my kids and wife laugh at them. They have no choice. Problem was I was stuck in a grocery getter van all day driving the fam to vacation. Didn’t have a stud finder on me.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Awww man! Classic Dad joke! I break out all of my favorites on Father’s Day. I make my kids and wife laugh at them. They have no choice. Problem was I was stuck in a grocery getter van all day driving the fam to vacation. Didn’t have a stud finder on me.


Yeah, hat tip to @ccpowerslave on the stud finder joke. I actually burst out laughing on that one.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

(mostly picturing his wife reaction 😂)


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Most of those girls on OnlyFans aren't making much at all. There are some hot ones that really are making serious money but the rest are only damaging their reputation for a pittance. I know a girl on there now that makes enough money to pay her phone bill and that's about it. For some reason, everyone on OnlyFans, even the ladies who don't make anything always brag about being on there and try to convince their friends to try it. It's like the people who gamble and tell you about the one night they made money but never mention all the times they lost their shorts. From what I have seen, since most of the OnlyFans girls don't make much, they have to produce edgier content in hopes to raise more money. It's not good for our culture, IMO.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> (mostly picturing his wife reaction 😂)


Her reaction was like “uhhhh huh...” with zero belief.


----------



## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Last night I found some granny porn from the 70s. This old lady was really giving it her all and whether she was acting nor not, she appeared to be having the time of her life. I mean, she looked like she’d give any guy of any age a great time and probably teach him a thing or two. My husband and I watched it and nearly peed ourselves laughing.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Awww man! Classic Dad joke! I break out all of my favorites on Father’s Day. I make my kids and wife laugh at them. They have no choice. Problem was I was stuck in a grocery getter van all day driving the fam to vacation. Didn’t have a stud finder on me.


I bought my husband a Dad Joke book for Father’s Day, among other things. He needs to start practicing now.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

I had the same reaction when my husband would try that joke. Then, one day, when I was using the stud finder myself to hang a shelf, I walked over to him and made the beeping sounds. The surprised look on his face...wish I'd have taken a pic!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> (mostly picturing his wife reaction 😂)


Whatever it takes to get the most eye-rolls. That's my goal, especially on Father's Day. If I play it just right, my wife will add in a "neck" roll along with the eye-roll. It's a super eye-roll. If that happens, I know I've done my job.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Whatever it takes to get the most eye-rolls. That's my goal, especially on Father's Day. If I play it just right, my wife will add in a "neck" roll along with the eye-roll. It's a super eye-roll. If that happens, I know I've done my job.


😂 😂😂


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> I bought my husband a Dad Joke book for Father’s Day, among other things. He needs to start practicing now.


Well done, Cici! I love Father's Day!

seriously though, good job and well thought out. Keep repairing the damage one day at a time.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Enigma32 said:


> Most of those girls on OnlyFans aren't making much at all. There are some hot ones that really are making serious money but the rest are only damaging their reputation for a pittance. I know a girl on there now that makes enough money to pay her phone bill and that's about it. For some reason, everyone on OnlyFans, even the ladies who don't make anything always brag about being on there and try to convince their friends to try it. It's like the people who gamble and tell you about the one night they made money but never mention all the times they lost their shorts. From what I have seen, since most of the OnlyFans girls don't make much, they have to produce edgier content in hopes to raise more money. It's not good for our culture, IMO.


There’s a wide spectrum of income in all professions and vocations. Not all doctors make the same, not all lawyers make the same, not all carpenters make the same, not all car salesmen make the same etc etc etc. 

My point is people are producing their own content. Some will make more and some will make less than others.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Sorry, @Torninhalf, I didn't mean to help take this thread off on rabbit trails. 

Per your original post, I find the modern day obsession with sexual novelty to be disturbing. We live in a modern day culture of entitlement that has seeped into sexuality and marriage/fidelity. Several generations ago, I don't think people expected so much from their spouses, including in the bedroom. They didn't expect to always be happy and get whatever they wanted, however or whenever they wanted it. (There have always been exceptions, but I'm talking about what normal or acceptible.) I do believe porn, as it has become more easily accessed and mainstream, has given men unrealistic expectations. Probably that will change as more women watch porn. Then everyone will be expecting everyone to moan with various body parts stuck in their mouths.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> Sorry, @Torninhalf, I didn't mean to help take this thread off on rabbit trails.
> 
> Per your original post, I find the modern day obsession with sexual novelty to be disturbing. We live in a modern day culture of entitlement that has seeped into sexuality and marriage/fidelity. Several generations ago, I don't think people expected so much from their spouses, including in the bedroom. They didn't expect to always be happy and get whatever they wanted, however or whenever they wanted it. (There have always been exceptions, but I'm talking about what normal or acceptible.) I do believe porn, as it has become more easily accessed and mainstream, has given men unrealistic expectations. Probably that will change as more women watch porn. Then everyone will be expecting everyone to moan with various body parts stuck in their mouths.


Uhhh.....statistics prove that most of what you are saying really aint happening IRL...

Couples are having less sex now than in previous generations...Expect so much?? how about expect anything....lol....

Back when I was a teen(early 80s) i had a job in a restaurant/club...They had a live band there that played on weekends...The place was packed with middle aged couples out on "dates"...They ate, they drank, they danced, we had to chase them out of the place at 3AM...These were people that were long term couples in many cases, some even in their 60's and 70s....I have no doubt that these couples went home and did the deed...often...

Couples don't do that any more...They are consumed with other crap and never get a chance...There is no "fun" anymore....all the talk is circled around their jobs and careers...and all the massive amount of shyt that they buy and are enslaved to pay for...That dynamic is all but gone....It's easy to see how sex would fall off when two people are stuck in a hamster wheel of life...Let's face it, sex is great, but it aint on the level of water, food or oxygen...

It's not all porn's fault, as most of the guys from the past had their mags and the shytty and grainy videos of Christy Canyon and Savannah, etc...Sure, its more accessible now, but this is nothing new...plus back in the day, every local neighborhood had a go go bar that men would frequent...Other than the inner cities in rough areas, these places are long gone now...

The way I see it, is women just don't like the competition...that's why it's always them that are complaining about it and not the guys...Yeah, they'll couch it as being concerned for the well being of the performers, but for the most part it isn't that...These hyper feminized women are everything they aren't....and guys love them for the most part...

I've had this theory that when women started really climbing the ladder in the workforce, running more businesses and corporations, filling more supervisory roles over men, then started replacing men, that in a weird way, it masculinized women and feminized men....Women now have pressures they never had and when a guy is in a lesser role as a provider and in his career than his wife or partner, then it will IME create issues.., For sex to be at it's best and most desired, IME/O, it's when there is a more radical differentiation....A Yin/Yang as they say...Some women are very careful about this and don't let what I mentioned above happen, nor do they pick men that aren't up to the task of being men....For these folks(and I know several couples), they are for all I can surmise, not complaining about what's happening in the bedroom.. You can easily tell by how they interact in social settings..

I'm not suggesting any change, and the advancement of women in all areas has nothing but positive effects, but I do think in some cases that there are some "unintended consequences" that are bound to come up...Maybe it all shakes out in the end, but for now, I guess people need to figure out why they can't make sex work out in LTRs...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Uhhh.....statistics prove that most of what you are saying really aint happening IRL...
> 
> Couples are having less sex now than in previous generations...Expect so much?? how about expect anything....lol....
> 
> ...


That brings up some good points.

It seems like there are a lot of people complaining about their sex lives or lack thereof (not just here but everywhere). I wonder if this many people were "sexually unhappy" years ago?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> That brings up some good points.
> 
> It seems like there are a lot of people complaining about their sex lives or lack thereof (not just here but everywhere). I wonder if this many people were "sexually unhappy" years ago?


Probably a different thread but I’d say smart phones, tablets, and streaming services are no good.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> That brings up some good points.
> 
> It seems like there are a lot of people complaining about their sex lives or lack thereof (not just here but everywhere). I wonder if this many people were "sexually unhappy" years ago?


Americans are having less sex now than they did 20 years ago

_"Pornography has a long history on the internet, but online porn is almost certainly not responsible for the decline in Americans’ sexual activity, the study authors wrote: According to the data, people who used porn were more likely to be sexually active, not less."_

Hmmm......


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Americans are having less sex now than they did 20 years ago
> 
> _"Pornography has a long history on the internet, but online porn is almost certainly not responsible for the decline in Americans’ sexual activity, the study authors wrote: According to the data, people who used porn were more likely to be sexually active, not less."_
> 
> Hmmm......


No dude, it HAS to be the porn! It just has to be!

It's got to be the porn because it definitely couldn't possibly be related to something with our general health like........obesity??? Nah, it can't be that. Crazy talk.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Right from your article.



> The second likely explanation is that digital media has supplanted the desire for sex. With so many binge-worthy shows, electronic games and social media platforms competing for one’s attention, sex may become an afterthought.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Also from the article....*....The higher a man’s income, the less likely he was to report a year-long dry spell. *

Wow, who knew?

But seriously, tv shows? It mentioned kids taking longer to grow up but why not just be honest say kids are like dogs and if you don't socialize them early and often you'll end up with problems. Like not knowing how to interact with another human face to face.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I have to say it’s great to go back to the pub now and chat with folks in person with no masks. I really missed just hanging out with actual people and not Zoom happy hours.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Couples are having less sex now than in previous generations...Expect so much?? how about expect anything....lol....


Where did I say that people are having more sex now than several generations ago? I was talking about expectations. I do think expectations in terms of sexual novelty has changed, and en masse. Pornography (in some form), prostitution, and infidelity have been around probably since the dawn of time. But I don't buy that porn isn't much more accessible and utilized in modern day. It went from being on parchment as drawings, to book form, to still pictures, to limited to what could be produced and sold on a video cassette (hello 80s and 90s), to cable/Pay Per View, to almost limitless availability to anyone (including children) who wants to view or download it anonymously from the privacy of their personal electronic device(s). And a lot of if for free. So I don't buy that the degree of porn consumption is the same as past generations. It isn't your grandfather's stolen playboy magazines anymore.

You raise some good points about sexual frequency, etc. Oldshirt raised some good points about how the production of it and participants has changed drastically. I can see that. I don't think it is the source of all relationship issues, however, per Torninhalf's original question, I do think it affects what men expect from women. That dynamic could shift, as more women seem to be viewing porn, and from what I understand, people have realized that there is a market gap.

That said, though I'm opposed to it for psychological and moral/religious reasons, I don't come to it from a position of sexual naivete. One set of my grandparents were swingers (they were not the "norm" for their time). I can remember a neighbor kid who used to sit around and watch porn on his parents' cable package when they weren't home. I was not sheltered. I've never understood the "men are more visual" argument; I guess maybe I am just a weird HD woman who finds porn visually stimulating and sees why it appeals. Doesn't mean it's harmless or good for people. Psychologically and even physically speaking, I don't think it's helping people be more healthy sexually. I have personally seen the opposite. Just my humble but also studied opinion. I realize that others disagree. The end.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Pornography has changed over the years , if you go back to the last world war there was not much in print before then you had play boy come along and that was replaced by the golden years of porn films which I think is not replaced by more self made home made porn .
but it seems to me that people are more used to seeing nude sex seance in tv and film than before , when I was young Benny Hill show was called smut NOT IT IS every day fun , what would shock our mothers is now morning tv . 
I am not saying it is a bad thing that people seen to have gone from a denial of sex related issues to been bombed by sex from the 70s to the 90s and now there is a mix of take it or leave it . 

I do think people seem to be a lot more conservative now than 20 years ago in how open they are to sex related things , we have drifted back into a more hide this side of life , younger people seem to have a more conservative seem to have less casual sex than in the 80 s / 90s aids: and now covid have had an impact on people today . 

having said that people have gone back more to a fifties type lifestyle in the plus-part of things but strange enough swinging and swing type clubs are springing up everywhere I don't know is it because it is more open to everyone or just that it is not as unspoken as before , 

we know of things that can be now grouped together as the swing world back in the 80 as more urban myth part of the hidden face of the sex world .

BACK TO THE QUESTION of is there lass sex now I think with the growth of home entertainment people go to bed later so sex is less often now but when sex happens people put more time into what is happening and people are more into the other persons pleasure partners are more informed and more into shearing than the wham bang thank you mam 3min 2sec roll in the hay type sex


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Well thanks a bunch TAM. Took a leaf out of this thread, porno projected onto bed room wall last night, quoted lots of statistics that I made up as foreplay and then made lots of loud moaning noises in the brief sex before being banished to the guest room.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> Well thanks a bunch TAM. Took a leaf out of this thread, porno projected onto bed room wall last night, quoted lots of statistics that I made up as foreplay and then made lots of loud moaning noises in the brief sex before being banished to the guest room.


😂🤣😂

You obviously just used the wrong sexual position. 😂


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> Well thanks a bunch TAM. Took a leaf out of this thread, porno projected onto bed room wall last night, quoted lots of statistics that I made up as foreplay and then made lots of loud moaning noises in the brief sex before being banished to the guest room.


Everyone knows the porn is projected on the ceiling, not a wall!

👍👍🤣🤣🤣


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Damn it, two rookie errors - thanks.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Perhaps the word give was off on my part. 🤷🏼‍♀️ My question still stands.


So is the question about porn then? Yes, porn is bad in most cases.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I was not saying that moaning and groaning was over the top but as a woman if I’m giving head I have to control my mouth and especially my teeth. It can be edited and added later for effect. If one wants to come away with an intact penis some control is needed. 😉


I vote for the intact penis. Just being clear. 
🤣🤣


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Family taking a nap on vacation. Figured I'd stop by TAM to see what was up.



Torninhalf said:


> Thanks for that. I certainly feel he made a huge mistake. He lost someone who most certainly would have helped him bury bodies if need be. All for what? Some strange…It still stings.


You see, this is why I have to read and sometimes re-read posts by TIH. I missed this little gem before. her cynisism and dark humor. She sneaks in these hilarious lines. Now all I can imagine is this little woman saying, "You gotta a body that needs to be buried? I'm your gal!". 

If I were single, I could listen to TIH talk smack all day. Any quality man that appreciates your humor will not be thrown off by the mirror. That's just an added bonus.



Torninhalf said:


> There is much dispute over porn and it’s effect on sexuality. Do y’all think it has slanted how men view sexual relations? The over the top moaning and groaning?
> The images of women acting as she is devouring the best steak she has ever eaten in her life? That crap just isn’t real but somehow I feel it has made women out to be inferior if they don’t perform that way especially after decades of marriage. It is a bit disheartening to be honest.


Don't know how I missed this part from the first post. Again, Now all I can imagine is some porn scene where a woman is riding on top while holding a plate with one hand and devouring a rib eye with the other. Don't know why, can't stop laughing at this ridiculous image in my head. 

I also missed the question in this quote - do women have to live up to the persona in the videos? For stupid, worthless men, yes. Yes they do. For quality men, absolutely not. We just need to work on your man-picker, TIH. I know it has been mentioned here before, but there is a surge in couples that do the amateur thing and upload their own videos. They typically don't show their faces. I actually prefer these. I'm only on the porn for a mechanical release. I like looking for porn where the woman's body is similar to my wife's, then I can just imagine her face in the videos because I love what her face looks like during sex. These also tend to have much less "over the top" moaning and groaning.

I will say though, the moaning and groaning.... I guess I never looked at it as "over the top" because, well, that's pretty much how my wife sounds. I'm bored. I don't care if it is TMI right now. I find it funny, I typically don't make a peep until I'm finishing, then she has the gall to say "Be quiet, the children will hear you!!!". Yeah.... I'm the one that needs to be quiet.

As for TIH's comment that she would produce "a bloody stump" if head was given during moaning and groaning, I'm pleased to report that doesn't happen. Or it hasn't happened in my experience. 69 tends to cause the wife to moan. That means I will get a "hum" job. No movement, just lots of humming. Again, I find it to be funny. All good with me, and no bloody stump!


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

I do wonder if men are more intimidated by trying to live up to the performance by male stars than women.

Also, is it just me or do others find porn gets very boring very quickly? I am no prude by any means but I do also wonder about the need for gratuitous nudity when it adds nothing to the story. I remember one British comedian back in the day asking a top Hollywood actress who used to drop her clothes in every film, whether, if it was intrinsic to the film, she would consider keeping her clothes on?

There seems to be a group of actresses who, if they are in a film, you just know are going to get their kit off.

There is a marvellously eccentric English actress called Miriam Margolyes (of Harry Potter film plus lots more) who provides a lot of the soundtracks for porn films, the moaning and groaning etc. She Is a lovely lady but, by her own admission has a face for radio. Worth googling her, keeping her image in your mind and then listen to a porn film soundtrack. 

I do have an issue with the mirror ceiling. I am almost 66, have a full head of hair (not all grey) but have noticed that I am thinning on top and rapidly moving towards a bald spot on top. At 6’ tall, not many people can see it when I am standing but having to put up with clearly seeing it in a mirror would be just too much to ask. Hope that wouldn’t be a deal breaker for you TIH 😆?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Lol I am making a lot of noise now and I don’t give a ****. 

Then again it’s quiet compared to playing guitar through my half stack during the day (you can hear that at the end of the block). I haven’t done it loud since Covid started and my hearing damage is already pretty bad but it’s fun.

As for expectations the Mrs announced she has started her feminine time today and already I am horny and she’s just started. So I expect I am going to be ninja invading her morning shower this week and missing a meeting or two.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Family taking a nap on vacation. Figured I'd stop by TAM to see what was up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


About my man picker…I was 17 when I met my husband. In fact I was 17 by 12 days. He was 23. I don’t think I had time to fine tune that instrument. 😂


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Twodecades said:


> Where did I say that people are having more sex now than several generations ago? I was talking about expectations. I do think expectations in terms of sexual novelty has changed, and en masse. Pornography (in some form), prostitution, and infidelity have been around probably since the dawn of time. But I don't buy that porn isn't much more accessible and utilized in modern day. It went from being on parchment as drawings, to book form, to still pictures, to limited to what could be produced and sold on a video cassette (hello 80s and 90s), to cable/Pay Per View, to almost limitless availability to anyone (including children) who wants to view or download it anonymously from the privacy of their personal electronic device(s). And a lot of if for free. So I don't buy that the degree of porn consumption is the same as past generations. It isn't your grandfather's stolen playboy magazines anymore.
> 
> You raise some good points about sexual frequency, etc. Oldshirt raised some good points about how the production of it and participants has changed drastically. I can see that. I don't think it is the source of all relationship issues, however, per Torninhalf's original question, I do think it affects what men expect from women. That dynamic could shift, as more women seem to be viewing porn, and from what I understand, people have realized that there is a market gap.
> 
> That said, though I'm opposed to it for psychological and moral/religious reasons, I don't come to it from a position of sexual naivete. One set of my grandparents were swingers (they were not the "norm" for their time). I can remember a neighbor kid who used to sit around and watch porn on his parents' cable package when they weren't home. I was not sheltered. I've never understood the "men are more visual" argument; I guess maybe I am just a weird HD woman who finds porn visually stimulating and sees why it appeals. Doesn't mean it's harmless or good for people. Psychologically and even physically speaking, I don't think it's helping people be more healthy sexually. I have personally seen the opposite. Just my humble but also studied opinion. I realize that others disagree. The end.


I’ll sum up your post:
Porn = no good
Men = no good because they watch porn
Women = it’s fine to have sex twice a month. Anything else the man wants is an “unrealistic expectation”

Summed up perfectly with “the end” like it was some sort of mic drop. LOLOLOL


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> I’ll sum up your post:
> Porn = no good
> Men = no good because they watch porn
> Women = it’s fine to have sex twice a month. Anything else the man wants is an “unrealistic expectation”
> ...


Uh, no, I was responding to my thoughts on Torninhalf's question about men and porn, based on my experiences. I'm actually an HD woman who would have sex every day if I could, who is with lower drive husband (which I have posted about in other threads). So, perhaps your observation skills need some work. 

"The end" was not a mic drop. I just don't care to go round and round about the issue. I was responding to Torninhalf's question. That was all. It seems there are some men on here who just can't stand if a woman disagrees with them re: porn.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

I think as far as the post that sparked this thread there's two factors. If I remember right the guy got married young so he didn't have the benefit of experience and he probably bought into the romantic, media influenced idea of marriage where everyone lives happily ever after. He might even believe in the soulmate myth.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Thanks for that. I certainly feel he made a huge mistake. He lost someone who most certainly would have helped him bury bodies if need be. All for what? Some strange…It still stings.


He absolutely did make a huge mistake. He threw away something irreplaceable for his **** and some strange 

But then again, as has been discussed in your other thread it never occurred to him that you wouldn't still love him let alone that he'd actually lose you. It's both off the rails arrogant and sad.....you have to wonder if he'd have made the same choices if he knew he'd lose you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Al_Bundy said:


> I think as far as the post that sparked this thread there's two factors. If I remember right the guy got married young so he didn't have the benefit of experience and he probably bought into the romantic, media influenced idea of marriage where everyone lives happily ever after. He might even believe in the soulmate myth.


Correct. He didn't think "meaningless sex" was a big deal and couldn't believe she'd leave over it, so the possibility of losing his marriage never factored into his thought process.

He has a completely different view of sex and a huge sense of enthusiasm.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Al_Bundy said:


> I think as far as the post that sparked this thread there's two factors. If I remember right the guy got married young so he didn't have the benefit of experience and he probably bought into the romantic, media influenced idea of marriage where everyone lives happily ever after. He might even believe in the soulmate myth.


No. The post that sparked this was a guy who said he was married a long time. Had sex at least twice a week. Wife did whatever he wanted, never refused him but she was just not enthusiastic enough when blowing him. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Had sex at least twice a week. Wife did whatever he wanted, never refused him but she was just not enthusiastic enough when blowing him



That right there would be enough for me without the enthusiastic blow job! Just sayin'


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Twodecades said:


> "The end" was not a mic drop. I just don't care to go round and round about the issue. I was responding to Torninhalf's question. That was all. It seems there are some men on here who just can't stand if a woman disagrees with them re: porn.


Or, perhaps, there are some *women* on here who just can’t stand if a *man* disagrees with them re: porn.

But, as a women, I’m sure you think you’re correct.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> That right there would be enough for me without the enthusiastic blow job! Just sayin'


And there is where my questioned stemmed from.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> Or, perhaps, there are some *women* on here who just can’t stand if a *man* disagrees with them re: porn.
> 
> But, as a women, I’m sure you think you’re correct.


Feel better, now?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

RebuildingMe said:


> Or, perhaps, there are some *women* on here who just can’t stand if a *man* disagrees with them re: porn.
> 
> But, as a women, I’m sure you think you’re correct.


I know your ex is being a nasty ***** and I'm truly sorry about that, but this coming into threads like this and starting with the women evil men victim posts is unhelpful and kind of a thread jack.

This is a perfectly nice discussion with many men participating with thoughtful views. If you care to offer your own thoughtful views on the topic by all means weigh in....you can disagree with whoever you want.

If you're just currently pissed off at the female gender this is probably not a good thread for you.

I'm saying this with love and support for your situation.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> That right there would be enough for me without the enthusiastic blow job! Just sayin'


Sorry, man. I have been in your shoes (from the opposite gender side), and I wish I had appreciated how my husband felt back when we had a passel of little kids and I had practically no desire. I know women tend to joke about men always wanting sex, but being the one who feels the lack, well, sucks (or doesn't, which is part of the problem 😂).


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Twodecades said:


> Sorry, man. I have been in your shoes (from the opposite gender side), and I wish I had appreciated how my husband felt back when we had a passel of little kids and I had practically no desire. I know women tend to joke about men always wanting sex, but being the one who feels the lack, well, sucks (or doesn't, which is part of the problem 😂).


Thanks. I wish my wife would see it that way too.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Sorry, man. I have been in your shoes (from the opposite gender side), and I wish I had appreciated how my husband felt back when we had a passel of little kids and I had practically no desire. I know women tend to joke about men always wanting sex, but being the one who feels the lack, well, sucks (or doesn't, which is part of the problem 😂).


I feel for you, I KNOW how this feels. It isn't fun. It's very embarrassing and really destroys confidence (when constantly being g turned down) I can imagine it is worse on the woman's side. Let's be honest here (I'm going to make a "shocking" declarative statement); women are the gatekeepers of sex in the VAST MAJORITY of situations. I would imagine an HD woman with a LD man is tough on the woman's ego. 

I dealt with my wife being LD for more years than I care to admit. She has had a recent "awakening" that has lasted 7 months now. It is my goal to find the root cause to this change. I can't go back. I simply can't. It would destroy me. Gotta find what caused this spark and keep it going.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> No. The post that sparked this was a guy who said he was married a long time. Had sex at least twice a week. Wife did whatever he wanted, never refused him but she was just not enthusiastic enough when blowing him. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I would tell this guy to get himself a motorized toy. They are quite remarkable these days. My wife has been on a toy fettish as of late. Found a motorized fake vagina. This thing is hilarious. Especially when you click on the speaker button and it starts speaking in some Asian language. We don't know what it's saying, but it sounds pretty hot. My wife has affectionately named it "ShenLee". She likes to use it on mewhen she isn't in the mood. I think she has more fun playing with this thing than doing taking care of my business herself. 

Maybe this guy needs to have his wife use a fake vagina on him.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I feel for you, I KNOW how this feels. It isn't fun. It's very embarrassing and really destroys confidence (when constantly being g turned down) I can imagine it is worse on the woman's side. Let's be honest here (I'm going to make a "shocking" declarative statement); women are the gatekeepers of sex in the VAST MAJORITY of situations. I would imagine an HD woman with a LD man is tough on the woman's ego.
> 
> I dealt with my wife being LD for more years than I care to admit. She has had a recent "awakening" that has lasted 7 months now. It is my goal to find the root cause to this change. I can't go back. I simply can't. It would destroy me. Gotta find what caused this spark and keep it going.


When you find out let me know as maybe it can work for my wife as my next move is to hit the road and call it quits.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> She has had a recent "awakening" that has lasted 7 months now. It is my goal to find the root cause to this change. I can't go back. I simply can't.


Wow not to derail this into a TJ but maybe it’d be worth writing up your story.

A good reminder to me to update mine.

I think I might mess with my wife today if she gives me a BJ and try out some lines on her like, “Tell me how much you like it baby!” Maybe it is the holy grail and that other thread is onto something.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I would tell this guy to get himself a motorized toy. They are quite remarkable these days. My wife has been on a toy fettish as of late. Found a motorized fake vagina. This thing is hilarious. Especially when you click on the speaker button and it starts speaking in some Asian language. We don't know what it's saying, but it sounds pretty hot. My wife has affectionately named it "ShenLee". She likes to use it on mewhen she isn't in the mood. I think she has more fun playing with this thing than doing taking care of my business herself.
> 
> Maybe this guy needs to have his wife use a fake vagina on him.


I’ve never met anyone who has actually owned and used one of those fake vaginas (and admitted it, at least). Wow, I feel like I can put a marker on the bingo spot of life now!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Wow not to derail this into a TJ but maybe it’d be worth writing up your story.
> 
> A good reminder to me to update mine.
> 
> I think I might mess with my wife today if she gives me a BJ and try out some lines on her like, “Tell me how much you like it baby!” Maybe it is the holy grail and that other thread is onto something.


I'm not quite ready. Still need a few more months of digging. It was the rabbit hole that brought me here to TAM. started in reddit with dead bedrooms and eventually brought me here. I have to admit, this place has been exceptional. Very therapeutic. I'm in awe of everyone here with the courage to share their marriage stories - baring their souls to strangers to find some help and peace for themselves while also helping out so many others. 

In the meantime ccpowerslave, I did enjoy myself a vacation DOUBLE FEATURE today! Well, more like a double feature for her. First time was in the morning. I am NOT a morning person. Body may appear to be awake, but I am not. Just because my buddy is pointing north doesn't mean I'm truly there. 

In the context of this thread, I'm good to go today. I have no desire to look at porn. Double feature days mean no porn, and it was waaaaay better because it was my wife. The real thing. Don't accept any substitutes!


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> I’ve never met anyone who has actually owned and used one of those fake vaginas (and admitted it, at least). Wow, I feel like I can put a marker on the bingo spot of life now!



Woah, woah, woah.... my wife owns a fake vagina..... um..... that is used on me. OK, so I own it, but seriously, this thing is hilarious when it talks. If it weren't for my wife doing this crazy 180, a fake vagina would have never entered our house. 

She had a whole bag of different gizmos. Crap I never knew existed. She doesn't O from PIV, but still loves it. That got her on a motorized rooster circle kick. I think we've tried just about every one on the market. Finally found one that works to give her the O during PIV. We named it "The Closer"


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> I watched porn 3 times today. I won’t say what. I’m desperate. And now my butthole hurts.


I just lold.

@LATERILUS79 I also had a double feature yesterday.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

@LATERILUS579 so without a whole story, what is the brief summary of how your wife changed? Did she just start going along with your lead or did she start things on her own? And just all of a sudden after years of nothing? If so, nice for you!


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

lifeistooshort said:


> I know your ex is being a nasty *** and I'm truly sorry about that, but this coming into threads like this and starting with the women evil men victim posts is unhelpful and kind of a thread jack.
> 
> This is a perfectly nice discussion with many men participating with thoughtful views. If you care to offer your own thoughtful views on the topic by all means weigh in....you can disagree with whoever you want.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> Or, perhaps, there are some *women* on here who just can’t stand if a *man* disagrees with them re: porn.
> 
> But, as a women, I’m sure you think you’re correct.


I'm gonna say this as diplomatically as possible. I think you are looking for a fight where there isn't one. 

To be fair, I've read a few threads on TAM that talk about porn and are filled with women that will slam men for enjoying it - and typically those types of women that are super strict in their ways and won't budge. The miserable man haters. I bet they are all a real "joy" in bed too. Definitely no wet blankets there (cue sarcasm)

TwoDecades has admitted here to wanting a piece everyday and is dealing with an LD man. Um.... yeah. I think finding a compromise on porn with this woman would be pretty easy. 

Torninhalf admitted to doing it on the daily and has a mirror installed on her ceiling. Definitely going to intimidate some weak a$$ men, but will grab the attention of real men. Mirror on the ceiling of a well experienced woman. Yeah, porn compromises will be easy here. 

Cici's butthole hurts from watching too much porn. Not sure I would want to know how that's possible. Sounds like the compromise here would be figuring out which porn to watch together. I can see the pros here as to why she and her husband are on their way to reconciliation. 

So far, this thread is a wet dream for most men. I wish more women would speak up and ask these types of intelligent questions while at the same time not bashing men for their responses. It's been a good discussion. Most people would look at me and say I have an addiction to porn. I don't think I do. I know in my heart I would accept my wife over porn every single time. I'm just HD and need the mechanical release. My wife realizes this and isn't offended. She knows in her heart that I want her. I get I'm not like all men. I get that some guys will get addicted and won't enjoy sex from squeezing themselves a bit too hard. I think this thread has shown that not all guys that watch porn are messed up in the head and don't look down on women for not acting out some porn fantasy. It has also shown that not all women are miserable wet blankets. There are a number of them out there that are HD and looking for a compatible man to rock their world. 

I like TAM. People seem pretty open here. It's sorta like "hey, I'm not alone and that's cool."


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> @LATERILUS579 so without a whole story, what is the brief summary of how your wife changed? Did she just start going along with your lead or did she start things on her own? And just all of a sudden after years of nothing? If so, nice for you!


Thumbs getting tired from typing on a tablet. I'll send you a PM when I get a chance.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Most people would look at me and say I have an addiction to porn. I don't think I do. I know in my heart I would accept my wife over porn every single time.


As would I (well my wife not your wife).

The thought that led me to quit was what if I didn’t crank one out? Would it force me to deal with the desire gap in a more serious way? The answer for me was actually yes.

If you deny yourself that easy out and force yourself to interact with your spouse for your needs it puts things in black and white pretty quickly. 

Instead of lying and passive rejection it’s like guess what, yes I would rather watch this ****ty Netflix high school romance show for teen girls than have sex with you tonight.

Or... ok I will screw the life out of you and leave you knocked out and then stay up until 2am reading Facebook.

Either way if you remove the self-care option it forces some sort of confrontation or resolution. The more I am working on it the more important I think this is. Self care offers an easy out, there shouldn’t be one.

That is my current thinking on it, subject to change of course.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Wha....?
> 
> Desperation and butthole pain. Sounds like a combo heading for a disaster.


Sometimes when I have very intense vaginal/clitoral orgasms I also experience immense pleasure in my anal area as well, which goes on longer and often feels even stronger. l than the vaginal orgasmic waves. At times it really starts to hurt in the rear if I have multiple intense, prolonged orgasms like this within a short timeframe and that’s when I’m supposed to know it’s time to stop. I don’t always listen to what my butt is trying to tell me and usually live to regret it the next day. Several days with no relief, fresh batteries for my favorite toys, and some novel new porn vids I found (I have a collection of favorites/old reliables and then my husband and I have a separate collection that we both enjoy together that does it for both of us, but today I wanted something new and it really did the trick...again and again and again). Needless to say, I’ve gotten nothing of value done today and I’ve been in bed since 7 pm! I’d still prefer the real thing and would risk the increased butt pain to have a round of it yet tonight but it’s not going to happen so I had to do what I had to do.

Edited to fix some typos. Wow, apparently I’ve pleasured myself crosseyed and can’t read what I’m typing tonight.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Sometimes when I have very intense vaginal/clitoral orgasms I also experience immense pleasure in my anal area as well, which goes on longer and often feels even stronger. l than the vaginal orgasmic waves. At times it really starts to hurt in the rear if I have multiple intense, prolonged orgasms like this within a short timeframe and that’s when I’m supposed to know it’s time to stop. I don’t always listen to what my butt is trying to tell me and usually live to regret it the next day. Several days with no relief, fresh batteries for my favorite toys, and some novel new porn vids I found (I have a collection of favorites/old reliables and then my husband and I have a separate collection that we both enjoy together that does it for both of us, but today I wanted something new and it really did the trick...again and again and again). Needless to say, I’ve gotten nothing of value done today and I’ve been in bed since 7 pm! I’d still prefer the real thing and would risk the increased butt pain to have a round of it yet tonight but it’s not going to happen so I had to do what I had to do.
> 
> Edited to fix some typos. Wow, apparently I’ve pleasured myself crosseyed and can’t read what I’m typing tonight.


Woah.... that was so metal.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Hmm.

So I tried out, “Tell me how you love it!” My wife was like, “Uh... it’s ok I suppose.” I’m like, “No tell me what you’re feeling and how good it is.” Her, “Um...”. “Is it better than say cleaning the toilet?” Her, “Oh way better than that. Not even the same league.”

Yeah that didn’t make it better. Still good though!


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I have found that there is a spectrum of interest in women in general from a body/sexual standpoint among heterosexual men...And it's not based on the education level, socioeconomic standing or whatever of these men...It's probably the same deal for women, but I dunno..

Anyway...There are guys that really don't pay all that much attention to women in general...For example.. One day when I was with a group of guys at a big event, an absolutely stunning looking woman walked by with a great body, and of the group I was with, seemed like only myself and one other guy took notice of her...It was impossible to avoid...This woman was just bangin' hot...

Those guys that never took notice make up one group of guys...They would care more about the ball game or the car or whatever and not notice a buck naked perfect looking woman standing in front of them...For the rest of us, it's not remotely the same..

Those in that group may not understand what the others see in it...Those guys probably never look at porn, don't ever notice a sexy woman on the street, or whatever...They just don't get it...For some of those guys I often wonder why they even have wives or gf's. at all..I would be willing to bet that the sex is infrequent and boring as hell....at best....and if there is absolutely anything not right, they aren't having any at all...

Then there are the others...Seemingly insatiable...They just can't carry on a day without noticing women on the street, women on the internet, women at the gym, whatever....I know for me, it does require a great deal of restraint and dignity to keep it in check as I do....But its always there...like a hunger pang you can never feed..For a lot of those guys porn and sexy images are one way to deal with it without becoming a complete perv as no one has to know what you are doing...Hell...when I go to the doctor for a routine exam, the woman that does the pre checks is stunning, then the doctor tells me that my blood pressure is running a little high...You think??...if he only knew...lol.....The people that think that it's only about beating off and ignoring your wife/gf, are not seeing the entire picture...I am sure it exists..but it's not what it's all about...not by a long shot...

I can clearly understand why a woman would be bothered by it...It makes it almost impossible to measure up-if they take it literally...But I guess what some may not understand is that they think they are competing with a person, but in reality its merely an image....

I dunno...I guess I see it the same way as LATERILUS79... _ Its not meant to replace anyone._. never in a million years...I don't know why I wasn't born like those other guys, but it is what it is...as they say.,..


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> Sometimes when I have very intense vaginal/clitoral orgasms I also experience immense pleasure in my anal area as well, which goes on longer and often feels even stronger. l than the vaginal orgasmic waves. At times it really starts to hurt in the rear if I have multiple intense, prolonged orgasms like this within a short timeframe and that’s when I’m supposed to know it’s time to stop. I don’t always listen to what my butt is trying to tell me and usually live to regret it the next day. Several days with no relief, fresh batteries for my favorite toys, and some novel new porn vids I found (I have a collection of favorites/old reliables and then my husband and I have a separate collection that we both enjoy together that does it for both of us, but today I wanted something new and it really did the trick...again and again and again). Needless to say, I’ve gotten nothing of value done today and I’ve been in bed since 7 pm! I’d still prefer the real thing and would risk the increased butt pain to have a round of it yet tonight but it’s not going to happen so I had to do what I had to do.
> 
> Edited to fix some typos. Wow, apparently I’ve pleasured myself crosseyed and can’t read what I’m typing tonight.


I’m not going to lie…that was…well let’s just say very informative. 🤷🏼‍♀️


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> As would I (well my wife not your wife).
> 
> The thought that led me to quit was what if I didn’t crank one out? Would it force me to deal with the desire gap in a more serious way? The answer for me was actually yes.
> 
> ...


I really like this answer...it's a perspective I hadn't considered. Its natural for people to take the path of least resistance butvits often a band aid like an infected wound that's not going to heal without some direction attention.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I really like this answer...it's a perspective I hadn't considered. Its natural for people to take the path of least resistance butvits often a band aid like an infected wound that's not going to heal without some direction attention.


Well here’s an example from last night.

So my wife knows I want her every day. The only time MAYBE I wouldn’t is if I was extremely sick, grieving the loss of a loved one, or so tired I pass out as soon as my head hits the pillow. So maybe 5 days a year or something I’m not up for it.

She will do a thing which is an old habit which is to not come to bed until maybe 20-30 minutes later than me. She knows I pass out easily. In her mind she can think, “Oh he was really tired what a shame.” What she’s actually doing is intentionally rejecting me but in a very passive way.

So what I have been doing recently is I leave the lights on and turn on the TV. I give her 15 minutes which seems like a reasonable amount of time for her to do whatever she is doing (normally playing match 3 games or reading Facebook) and then I get up, find her, and ask her if she’s going to come to bed or not.

Sometimes she will say, “No I’m going to stay up a while.” Ok well then I go back and turn off the lights and go to bed, but instead of her phony passive rejection she just says it straight up.

What I would have done a year ago is I would have just cranked one out to porn that becomes more and more depraved over time, not talk with her at all, then go to bed. 

My physical need is taken care of but my emotional need of connection is maybe even worse than it was before that.

So this played out last night and when I asked her she came to bed. A year ago I would have been #foreverAlone with my PornHub screen and instead I got an amazing BJ she described as, “Way better than cleaning toilets.”


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Well here’s an example from last night.
> 
> So my wife knows I want her every day. The only time MAYBE I wouldn’t is if I was extremely sick, grieving the loss of a loved one, or so tired I pass out as soon as my head hits the pillow. So maybe 5 days a year or something I’m not up for it.
> 
> ...


I have a question if I may. Why do you consider it a rejection?


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I am not sure what the answers to all of your questions are, but I can tell you something from my experience in our almost 26 year marriage.

For the first 24 years of it, I always wanted sex, I did not often feel desired, and that sex was a chore for her. We talked about it a lot, we saw therapists, I eventually had a ONS, we worked through that, and built a good marriage from the rubble.

From my perspective, in hindsight, I put way to much into the connection between sex and her love for me. There was nothing else she could do to make me feel loved. No amount of work, gifts, words, time, nothing mattered. If we spent a day doing everything I wanted and her catering to me, but we didn't have sex, I did not feel loved. In many ways, there was no way she could win. There was a constant evaluation in my mind about why, how, was it good enough, etc.

I know now that I created a unwinnable scenario that guaranteed my disappointment. I made thousands of covert contracts and then was upset when she didn't pay up.

Everything I did to try and improve it, just made it worse, because it was more pressure, more stress, more expectation.

It wasn't until I processed through all of that, that there was a change. Almost all of it was me. It was my issue, that was bothering me. Yes, she had her own issues, but it is up to me to deal with mine.
-----

In an ironic twist to the story, for about a year now, the tables have turned. I found myself saying "Can we do it tomorrow, I am really tired?". Two nights ago, she reminded me it had been 3 days since we had sex and that is too long.

I don't know what changed in her, whether it is menopause, or what, but she is a completely different person when it comes to sex now.

Now I feel pressure, like I cannot do it enough, or well enough, or with enough passion to convince her that I love her.

Crazy times.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I have a question if I may. Why do you consider it a rejection?


It’s a rejection by avoidance kind of like a lie by omission. 

She knows that historically if I lay in bed with the lights off I am usually sleeping in less than 10 minutes. So if she delays coming to bed by more than 10 minutes she doesn’t have to reject me because I will be sleeping.

One important thing I forgot is that if she says she’s going to stay up and work, catch up on TV, whatever sometimes I will try her out one more time. “Oh that’s a shame because if you came to bed I would X, Y, Z.” Occasionally that will kickstart her responsive desire or whatever and we’ll hook up and she’ll go back to whatever she was doing when I pass out.

What I have come to believe is that frequent self care robs you of chances to connect sexually where if you instead expressed your desire then you give your partner a chance to meet it instead of adding to the tissue pile in the wastebasket.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> It’s a rejection by avoidance kind of like a lie by omission.
> 
> She knows that historically if I lay in bed with the lights off I am usually sleeping in less than 10 minutes. So if she delays coming to bed by more than 10 minutes she doesn’t have to reject me because I will be sleeping.
> 
> ...


Just so I understand. If you and your wife have sex say 4 or 5 times a week you consider the other 2 or 3 days that you don’t her rejecting you?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Well here’s an example from last night.
> 
> So my wife knows I want her every day. The only time MAYBE I wouldn’t is if I was extremely sick, grieving the loss of a loved one, or so tired I pass out as soon as my head hits the pillow. So maybe 5 days a year or something I’m not up for it.
> 
> ...


Ugh.....phony passive aggressive ****.

That's a trigger for me since my ex was the absolute monarch of phony passive aggressiveness.

Have you two ever agreed upon a number of times per week? This way she knows what to expect and also knows when she gets to recoup?

I'm good for 3-4 times a week but I don't enjoy it as much beyond that because I need recovery time.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Just so I understand. If you and your wife have sex say 4 or 5 times a week you consider the other 2 or 3 days that you don’t her rejecting you?


Well to really be clear no. She isn’t rejecting me she’s rejecting sex. The effect (for me) is the same.

Odd day here or there is no problem, but to be honest 4 days a week is borderline for me to where I start to become unhappy and my behavior towards her can change.

Typing it out it sounds maybe bad or misogynistic perhaps but it isn’t. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting to have sex with your wife every day.

If you read stories by HD women they would love having a man that is devoted to them and wants to hit it every day. Isn’t that the dream anyway to marry someone who wants you? What is the alternative?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Either way if you remove the self-care option it forces some sort of confrontation or resolution. The more I am working on it the more important I think this is. Self care offers an easy out, there shouldn’t be one.
> 
> That is my current thinking on it, subject to change of course.


In my experience, the removal of the self-care option brought up even more conflicts and ultimately divorce. It's a strategy that will work if the relationship is not too heavily skewed and there is still some room for manoeuvre. When you have you children in the mix, it's not an option, imo, especially if the rest of the marriage is ok. I believe most people who suggest such radical solutions here on TAM are operating within a salvageable frame and can afford some risk.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you two ever agreed upon a number of times per week? This way she knows what to expect and also knows when she gets to recoup?
> 
> I'm good for 3-4 times a week but I don't enjoy it as much beyond that because I need recovery time.


No, we haven’t done that. Since she has responsive desire if I did that I’d be missing out sometimes.

As for giving her a rest she definitely needs it from time to time and usually I can tell. For example if the stars align and I end up lasting a long time say 5+ minutes after she has already had her orgasm there is a decent shot she will be worn out for PIV the next day. Sometimes not, and in that case maybe there is a stretch of two or three times in a row like that and then she’s like my junk is worn out. So she just says it straight up.

That’s a mechanical reality of things.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Well to really be clear no. She isn’t rejecting me she’s rejecting sex. The effect (for me) is the same.
> 
> Odd day here or there is no problem, but to be honest 4 days a week is borderline for me to where I start to become unhappy and my behavior towards her can change.
> 
> ...


I understand in part what you are saying. I think sex everyday is a bit much. For me it becomes routine. I prefer sometime in between to allow my mind to drift to a sexual liaison. Let the anticipation build. I feel bad that you view it as a rejection.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> So what I have been doing recently is I leave the lights on and turn on the TV. I give her 15 minutes which seems like a reasonable amount of time for her to do whatever she is doing (normally playing match 3 games or reading Facebook) and then I get up, find her, and ask her if she’s going to come to bed or not.


I used to do that, until my wife never came to bed again. Good luck!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I believe most people who suggest such radical solutions here on TAM are operating within a salvageable frame and can afford some risk.


Yeah we do not have kids. 

For me the risk was she says, “Piss off I don’t want to have sex with you.” 

Is that really a risk though? I didn’t view it that way.

I thought it was more of a risk to be wasting prime years of my life when instead I could be with someone who wanted me. Yeah she’d take half my stuff, but I have a lot of stuff and I can make more stuff.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I used to do that, until my wife never came to bed again. Good luck!


She wouldn’t be my wife for long in that case. The choice is hers.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> She wouldn’t be my wife for long in that case. The choice is hers.


yep, that's where we got to in the end...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah we do not have kids.
> 
> For me the risk was she says, “Piss off I don’t want to have sex with you.”
> 
> ...


Yes, you don't have all the intricacies related to kids and the mini-universe around them. Or should I say the mega-universe?  Nobody told me to have kids, obviously, but sometimes I have to smile when I read some of the stuff here on TAM. Also, can't be too snarky, since I messed-up my marriage massively. I'm always reminded of that...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, you don't have all the intricacies related to kids and the mini-universe around them. Or should I say the mega-universe?  Nobody told me to have kids, obviously, but sometimes I have to smile when I read some of the stuff here on TAM. Also, can't be too snarky, since I messed-up my marriage massively. I'm always reminded of that...


It became a deliberate choice not to have them about the time we hit our early 30s. When we got married I think we both wanted children because “you’re supposed to”. Instead we had exotic cars, watches, and vacations and that worked for us.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

To me there’s a fine line between knowing I’m wanted and feeling like my partner is expecting to have sex with me every night and will be disappointed to some degree if I passively reject him by staying out in the living room and watching a TV show instead. And I say this as somebody who is relatively HD. Sometimes I’ve been busy all day and looking forward to just sitting down and watching my show and now it’s 10 at night and somebody is in the bedroom waiting for me and I know what he really wants even though we’ve already had sex 5 nights in a row. That would annoy me after a while, I think. Then again, I couldn’t deal with a man who only wanted sex 3 times a week either. I actually prefer sex at any other time of the day other than bedtime though. My late night before bed time is my time that I wait for everyday.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> It became a deliberate choice not to have them about the time we hit our early 30s. When we got married I think we both wanted children because “you’re supposed to”. Instead we had exotic cars, watches, and vacations and that worked for us.


We actually never discussed kids before we got married, but I knew she wanted some. I was indifferent. In fact, I wasn't really ready. Just found my freedom and a fantastic woman, I had a job, I was living in a different country. In hindsight, I should have said no, but that would have meant losing my wife and I didn't want that. I went along, but very soon I realised I wasn't father material.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> To me there’s a fine line between knowing I’m wanted and feeling like my partner is expecting to have sex with me every night and will be disappointed to some degree if I passively reject him by staying out in the living room and watching a TV show instead. And I say this as somebody who is relatively HD. Sometimes I’ve been busy all day and looking forward to just sitting down and watching my show and now it’s 10 at night and somebody is in the bedroom waiting for me and I know what he really wants even though we’ve already had sex 5 nights in a row. That would annoy me after a while, I think. Then again, I couldn’t deal with a man who only wanted sex 3 times a week either. I actually prefer sex at any other time of the day other than bedtime though. My late night before bed time is my time that I wait for everyday.


Late night sex is the worst on a typical day that's for sure.

We always have sex before tv watching time. And first thing in the morning on weekdays typically. 

Weekends are late morning and early afternoon, longer sessions.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CountryMike said:


> Late night sex is the worst on a typical day that's for sure.
> 
> We always have sex before tv watching time. And first thing in the morning on weekdays typically.
> 
> Weekends are late morning and early afternoon, longer sessions.


Why is late night sex the worst?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> yep, that's where we got to in the end...


Yeah I have tried CC's idea and even when my wife DOES come to bed, she still will say No. And to her, No means No. CC your getting a BJ out of it like you did last night would be unheard of in my bedroom.

Hence why I am on my way out like InAbsentia mentioned. Just have to figure out the details.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Tasorundo said:


> I am not sure what the answers to all of your questions are, but I can tell you something from my experience in our almost 26 year marriage.
> 
> For the first 24 years of it, I always wanted sex, I did not often feel desired, and that sex was a chore for her. We talked about it a lot, we saw therapists, I eventually had a ONS, we worked through that, and built a good marriage from the rubble.
> 
> ...


I have been doing this its just my wife has never made the turn around. It does take make the denial frustration easier but there has been no positive result.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Just have to figure out the details.


The hardest part, probably, when you finally realise there is no alternative. My wife made it easier for me, somewhat, buy terminating our sex life.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I have been doing this its just my wife has never made the turn around. It does take make the denial frustration easier but there has been no positive result.


Yes that is a possible outcome for sure and I was prepared to accept that and figure out a different path.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I have been doing this its just my wife has never made the turn around. It does take make the denial frustration easier but there has been no positive result.


I don't know why she ever did, it doesn't seem to be anything that I did or didn't do. It was a change in her.

I know that the current place my story is, does not seem to be that common. If I had the answer, I would be a billionaire!

I do know, that for me, I was much more content with life even in the previous conditions.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> Sometimes I’ve been busy all day and looking forward to just sitting down and watching my show and now it’s 10 at night and somebody is in the bedroom waiting for me and I know what he really wants even though we’ve already had sex 5 nights in a row. That would annoy me after a while, I think. Then again, I couldn’t deal with a man who only wanted sex 3 times a week either. I actually prefer sex at any other time of the day other than bedtime though. My late night before bed time is my time that I wait for everyday.


So I get that people need their time alone. I get up really early in the morning and my wife doesn’t. Usually I work then, but I could do whatever I want because she’s not awake.

For her that time is after I go to sleep. So she wants to do stuff then and that’s fine.

When we were broken to the point of dysfunction she would literally never, so zero days a week or month, come to bed at the same time as me. She also doesn’t like having sex in the morning at all, like zero desire. So the 2-3 times a month we would do it was normally on a weekend morning after I had gotten back from the gym and she was awake so neither of us really liked it.

So one of the stipulations I had for her if we were going to work on it is that she had to come to bed with me at least a couple nights a week. Once I was sleeping, fair game to get up and leave and do whatever she wants. So when we first started trying to repair it that’s what she did. Now I’d say she comes to bed most nights whether she’s going to stay or not and I don’t care because I’m sleeping anyway. She will regularly stay up until 1-2am doing whatever she does.

As for it getting tiring yeah it probably is. The good thing is that generally sex is self-rewarding. The hard part is starting, once you start then it’s good.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Found a motorized fake vagina. This thing is hilarious. Especially when you click on the speaker button and it starts speaking in some Asian language. We don't know what it's saying, but it sounds pretty hot. My wife has affectionately named it "ShenLee".


😂😂🤣😂 That was awesome! But how do you know it isn't saying, "I'm going to kill you in your sleep" or "This fake vagina will self-destruct"? Though with the latter, maybe there are worse ways to go. My husband always says, when those commercials for ED drugs come on and talk about heart attack or erections lasting more than 24 hours, that it's just a marketing ploy. Most men can think of worse ways to go. 😂

You mentioned that I'd find a compromise to porn. My husband and I both don't utilize it also because of our moral convictions, so my compromise would be (and has been) to offer a hand or bj, or model some lingerie, etc. Not because it's my job to keep him away from the alternative (as we view that as ultimately up to us), but because I do care about his needs. I understand that people view porn differently, even if I disagree, and you are correct in that I don't expect that everyone is going to think like I do. 

Re: change from lower D to HD, for me, it was a number of different things. He worked on how he related to me, we talked through some things I'd built up resentment about, I no longer had little babies or kids hanging on me and more time for myself, and some of it I just don't understand but think was a hormonal shift. I don't know if any of that applies to your wife or not. 



Cici1990 said:


> I watched porn 3 times today. I won’t say what. I’m desperate. And now my butthole hurts.


You can take acetaminophen for that, but not ibuprofen during pregnancy.



Torninhalf said:


> I understand in part what you are saying. I think sex everyday is a bit much. For me it becomes routine. I prefer sometime in between to allow my mind to drift to a sexual liaison. Let the anticipation build. I feel bad that you view it as a rejection.


I have wondered if perhaps I just think I want it every day because I don't have it. Usually don't get past three days in a row. That isn't to say some people don't want it that often, but maybe I crave the idea more? 

Your husband was crazy fortunate, based on what you've shared. What an idiot. He won't easily find that again, if ever.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> No. The post that sparked this was a guy who said he was married a long time. Had sex at least twice a week. Wife did whatever he wanted, never refused him but she was just not enthusiastic enough when blowing him. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Y’know, this isn’t any kind of solution or “ah hah!” moment and probably makes the world seem a little darker, but sometimes people aren’t truly dissatisfied in the classic sense and sometimes they don’t even want anything clearly better - some times they’ve just had enough of one thing and now want something “different.”

There’s an old saying that’s mostly applied to women but that probably can be applied to anyone that goes, “I’d like to find a man that is as good looking as my BF *_* and as nice as *_*, and that’s as successful as *_* - but that isn’t *_*.” 

How many people trade in a car that runs perfectly well for a newer one or even just something different like going from a car to an SUV or van to a pick up etc?

How many people change jobs after years even though the newer job may not be a major increase in pay or benefits? 

How many people move to a different house or neighborhood that isn’t head and shoulders better than where they were before? 

How often do you get new clothes even though what you have now still fits and aren’t worn out? 

As far as relationships, I’ve certainly been dumped cold even though I was following all the rules and acting in full good faith. And there have been times that I too have exited relationships where there was no foul on the part of the other person and even though on paper everything was as it was supposed to be. 

If we were a species that was always satisfied with what we have and ok with the status quo, we would have never migrated from the plains of Africa a million years ago and if you said the word “divorce’, no one would know what you were talking about.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Why is late night sex the worst?


If I've been working all day, or W too, and we get home 5 or 6, eat, and wait until 10:00pm to start having sex, that's the tail end of a long day and having sex then won't get the attention we want it to have.

So we have supper, after a short time get naked by 7:00pm, because tv isn't more important than good sex. And afterwards we're still up and may get up for a bit. Or not, if a longer session, or choice.

This way, to me, the relationship is put first, tv and other stuff is after.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

My STBX was replacing our already reduced sex life with HJ's. She got extremely lazy with sex and took it for granted that I wouldn't want a D. After a while, the resentment built so much that my own hand was far better than hers. Eventually, separate bedrooms and the rest was history. Three years in the making, add to that an affair to boot. I envy the ones who turned their sex lives around and at the same time, got past the infidelity. It wasn't in the cards for us and infidelity was always a deal breaker. It just took me three years to realize that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> My STBX was replacing our already reduced sex life with HJ's. She got extremely lazy with sex and took it for granted that I wouldn't want a D. After a while, the resentment built so much that my own hand was far better than hers. Eventually, separate bedrooms and the rest was history. Three years in the making, add to that an affair to boot. I envy the ones who turned their sex lives around and at the same time, got past the infidelity. It wasn't in the cards for us and infidelity was always a deal breaker. It just took me three years to realize that.


Took me a long time as well.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I have a feeling if we all threw our phones and other devices into the sea that their would be lots more sex in this world. Even more marriage sex.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Most men can think of worse ways to go. 😂


I must amend that statement. His exact words were, "Most men would prefer to go out that way if they could choose." It seems like it'd be hard to explain to your kids with a straight face. "Did he suffer? Did he have any last words for us?" "No, kids, he actually seemed quite happy. He didn't have any words, exactly (that I can repeat)..."


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> My STBX was replacing our already reduced sex life with HJ's. She got extremely lazy with sex and took it for granted that I wouldn't want a D. After a while, the resentment built so much that my own hand was far better than hers. Eventually, separate bedrooms and the rest was history. Three years in the making, add to that an affair to boot. I envy the ones who turned their sex lives around and at the same time, got past the infidelity. It wasn't in the cards for us and infidelity was always a deal breaker. It just took me three years to realize that.


I'm sorry to hear that. The sexual rejection after infidelity is like spitting on someone after you've already beat the hell out of them.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s an act of love? Give me something comparative that a man would do similarly for his wife.


I think this was in reference to wearing lingerie where the woman was wearing it for the benefit of the husband even though she wasn't a big fan.. In my relationship some examples include every single time I got the comment, "You're not going to wear that are you?". Flowerbeds. This ridiculous commute.



joannacroc said:


> I don't think porn is morally wrong or anything but I do know a lot of men turn to it before things start to go downhill and then show no interest in their spouse and that is a major issue. Probably happens to some women too? I don't know.


I turned to porn more when my spouse stopped showing interest in me. Sometimes it is a bit of a chicken and egg issue.



hamadryad said:


> Let's face it, sex is great, but it aint on the level of water, food or oxygen...


There have been times when I've had more orgasms than meals...


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> As would I (well my wife not your wife).
> 
> The thought that led me to quit was what if I didn’t crank one out? Would it force me to deal with the desire gap in a more serious way? The answer for me was actually yes.
> 
> ...


much more to say on this later tonight (let alone other thought provoking comments). About to head out with the fam for more vacation activities (right after the wife and I went for another round. Vacation so far has been gooooood).

ccpowerslave, you and I are coming at this from two very different perspectives. Porn is 100% mechanical release. Nothing more. Forcing myself to abstain has nothing to do with “confrontations” with my wife. In fact, I initiate far more conversations and confrontations than what my wife does. It’s actually one of our marriage issues we are trying to solve. We are both introverted people and like A LOT of alone time. Me watching porn has nothing to do with avoiding a confrontation. The confrontation has already happened. I attempted to initiate, I got turned down, I go and take care of the problem.
It really is as easy as that. No deep dive into my psyche. No digging required to find some sort of underlying issue. I promise, there isn’t one there.
I haven’t looked at porn or wanted to in 48 hours. Why? Because my wife has been on top of her game (and on top of me). If it was like this every day, I could cut it out as well.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I attempted to initiate, I got turned down, I go and take care of the problem.


Yeah I get that. If that’s the context it is a bit different.

I still think it’s a slippery slope because that’s how my wife and I got into the mess we were in. Ham fisted initiation fails so I take care of it. Repeat over many years and hundreds of times and the pattern becomes skipping the rejection part and getting to the good part. 

So at least for me avoiding the self care has been helpful just for stopping the old patterns. YMMV


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I dealt with my wife being LD for more years than I care to admit.
> She has had a recent "awakening" that has lasted 7 months now. It is my goal to find the root cause to this change. I can't go back. I simply can't. It would destroy me. Gotta find what caused this spark and keep it going.


How old are you and your wife, and how long have you been married? 

Don’t panic, I’m not going to imply that your wife’s recent “awakening” has anything to do with infidelity. However, depending on your answers, if you don’t mind sharing that information, I might have a good theory as to what is driving her sudden awakening.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I get that. If that’s the context it is a bit different.
> 
> I still think it’s a slippery slope because that’s how my wife and I got into the mess we were in. Ham fisted initiation fails so I take care of it. Repeat over many years and hundreds of times and the pattern becomes skipping the rejection part and getting to the good part.
> 
> So at least for me avoiding the self care has been helpful just for stopping the old patterns. YMMV


I get that its just sometimes after many successions of hearing No, you need a release.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I get that its just sometimes after many successions of hearing No, you need a release.


No doubt. I mean I’m not a monk or something with a no self-care vow. You gotta do what you need to do sometimes.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> No doubt. I mean I’m not a monk or something with a no self-care vow. You gotta do what you need to do sometimes.


Coincidently (or not), marriage vows and monastic vows are eerily similar.

Take what you will from that.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> much more to say on this later tonight (let alone other thought provoking comments). About to head out with the fam for more vacation activities (right after the wife and I went for another round. Vacation so far has been gooooood).
> 
> ccpowerslave, you and I are coming at this from two very different perspectives. Porn is 100% mechanical release. Nothing more. Forcing myself to abstain has nothing to do with “confrontations” with my wife. In fact, I initiate far more conversations and confrontations than what my wife does. It’s actually one of our marriage issues we are trying to solve. We are both introverted people and like A LOT of alone time. Me watching porn has nothing to do with avoiding a confrontation. The confrontation has already happened. I attempted to initiate, I got turned down, I go and take care of the problem.
> It really is as easy as that. No deep dive into my psyche. No digging required to find some sort of underlying issue. I promise, there isn’t one there.
> I haven’t looked at porn or wanted to in 48 hours. Why? Because my wife has been on top of her game (and on top of me). If it was like this every day, I could cut it out as well.


I am the exact same way....

What many women don't realize about a lot(most) of men is this...

Guys in general are pragmatic and non confrontational.......I mean, just take for example a simple trip to the store...The other day there was a woman at the front of the line arguing with the clerk over a .50 coupon that had expired...There were like 5 people behind her on the line, and she went on and on with the clerk...I wouldn't even present a coupon and if they ran out of change I would tell them to keep it....Just to keep the line moving and not inconvenience anyone...This is what guys generally do, and they will do it even more so with women...

You see it with the posters answering in the thread....I think they wind up defaulting because they don't want to get into a major discussion about it, and they have a convenient way to deal with it...Its really as simple as that...They don't want to have a round table discussion about it...For one, its obviously a very touchy subject...

Its comparable to the issue of weight gain...Guys won't say anything about it(woman got heavy) but it bothers them enough to tell their buddies about it...so it is in fact an issue...So if they feel like they can't find the attraction as much, or there is some resentment about it, they know if they bring it up it's gonna cause a shyt show of tears and anguish, then its just easy to ignore it and default to self pleasure, because he knows she wont react by taking it as a challenge and whip herself into shape immediately...She's going to be insulted and hurt...Guys know this...

Its just another means of compartmentalization, which is also something guys tend to do efficiently...
It's not as if this is the desired option, but its the option that gets the job done with the least amount of drama...

At the end of the day, it shouldn't be this cat and mouse game that I am hearing from many posters...That would wear me out in no time flat...I couldn't play that game for very long...I tip my hat to some of you guys..really.....


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

hamadryad said:


> I am the exact same way....
> 
> What many women don't realize about a lot(most) of men is this...
> 
> ...


It's our cross to bear as married stooges. Men everywhere should learn from our errors.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

EI said:


> How old are you and your wife, and how long have you been married?
> 
> Don’t panic, I’m not going to imply that your wife’s recent “awakening” has anything to do with infidelity. However, depending on your answers, if you don’t mind sharing that information, I might have a good theory as to what is driving her sudden awakening.




you’re breaking my balls, EI! What are you trying to do? Pull my story out of the oven before it is ready? 😂

every avenue is being searched. I am extremely analytical and detail oriented. I’ve done countless hours of research online and in my home.

no matter what, I will have my answer to this “awakening” question one way or the other.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

LATERILUS79 said:


> you’re breaking my balls, EI! What are you trying to do? Pull my story out of the oven before it is ready? 😂
> 
> every avenue is being searched. I am extremely analytical and detail oriented. I’ve done countless hours of research online and in my home.
> 
> no matter what, I will have my answer to this “awakening” question one way or the other.


Okie-Dokie, suit yourself, but I already know the answer! At least, I think I do! LOL ☺

Of course, if you’d just answer those two questions, I’d be able to tell you, one way or another.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> You see it with the posters answering in the thread....I think they wind up defaulting because they don't want to get into a major discussion about it, and they have a convenient way to deal with it...Its really as simple as that...They don't want to have a round table discussion about it...


Are you referring to them defaulting to using porn/masturbation because they don't feel like if they bring it up with their wives, they won't really be heard or she will just go on the defensive? I'm sincerely asking (trying to understand), not trying to pick a fight. 

I can admit that I didn't truly understand my husband's needs at times. There were some other issues clouding it from his end, but looking back, I wish I had tried harder to see things from his perspective re: lack of sex. I didn't truly understand what it was like until I became higher drive. I don't know what it would have taken for me to understand. Perhaps if he had driven me to the brink of passion and then got up, said, "That's how I feel when I have no sexual outlet," and walked out, I might have. At least, I'd like to think I would have. But I'm not sure, if I'm being totally honest. I truly didn't understand how he took my lack of desire as a lack of love for and care about him. I just figured he could see that I was sleep deprived and had kids hanging on me and lots of stress. But at the same time, I still yearned for verbal affirmation and appreciation from him, so it makes sense in retrospect that he still needed that physical attention and release from me.



hamadryad said:


> For one, its obviously a very touchy subject...


Pun intended? 😂




hamadryad said:


> Its just another means of compartmentalization, which is also something guys tend to do efficiently...


Yep, well stated. I can see that. I see how differently my teenage boy approaches communication, etc. than my teenage girl, too. Things got a lot easier for me within my marriage once I realized my husband was never going to think like a woman. He tries to understand me (I think), but he's never going to react to things the same way I do. It doesn't mean I never get offended, but it does help me to not get as hurt about different things or take them as personally.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Took me a long time as well.


I know. We can’t get that time back. We can only move forward as to not waste anymore precious time.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Twodecades said:


> Are you referring to them defaulting to using porn/masturbation because they don't feel like if they bring it up with their wives, they won't really be heard or she will just go on the defensive? I'm sincerely asking (trying to understand), not trying to pick a fight.
> 
> I can admit that I didn't truly understand my husband's needs at times. There were some other issues clouding it from his end, but looking back, I wish I had tried harder to see things from his perspective re: lack of sex. I didn't truly understand what it was like until I became higher drive. I don't know what it would have taken for me to understand. Perhaps if he had driven me to the brink of passion and then got up, said, "That's how I feel when I have no sexual outlet," and walked out, I might have. At least, I'd like to think I would have. But I'm not sure, if I'm being totally honest. I truly didn't understand how he took my lack of desire as a lack of love for and care about him. I just figured he could see that I was sleep deprived and had kids hanging on me and lots of stress. But at the same time, I still yearned for verbal affirmation and appreciation from him, so it makes sense in retrospect that he still needed that physical attention and release from me.
> 
> ...


Its simple really. Men need sex to feel love for their wife. No sex means they don't feel loved and also they lose connection with their wife. Verbal affirmation and appreciation you seek would then likely then be more forthcoming.

Plus it's simply biology, men have a **** ton of testosterone running through their bodies. It needs a release. It will either be found with their wife or somewhere else.

But I, like you, don't understand the opposite sex very well. Foreplay to me is oral, but to my wife it's very different and rather hard to ignite inside a marriage as opposed to when we were just dating.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its simple really. Men need sex to feel love for their wife. No sex means they don't feel loved and also they lose connection with their wife. Verbal affirmation and appreciation you seek would then likely then be more forthcoming.
> 
> Plus it's simply biology, men have a **** ton of testosterone running through their bodies. It needs a release. It will either be found with their wife or somewhere else.
> 
> But I, like you, don't understand the opposite sex very well. Foreplay to me is oral, but to my wife it's very different and rather hard to ignite inside a marriage as opposed to when we were just dating.


So in your marriage the rules changed sexually? Oral was taken off the menu?


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I get that. If that’s the context it is a bit different.
> 
> I still think it’s a slippery slope because that’s how my wife and I got into the mess we were in. Ham fisted initiation fails so I take care of it. Repeat over many years and hundreds of times and the pattern becomes skipping the rejection part and getting to the good part.
> 
> So at least for me avoiding the self care has been helpful just for stopping the old patterns. YMMV


No slippery slope to be had. I’ve already been there and I promise you, I will never go back. Too many years wasted. My wife knows me extremely well. I will walk out the door if she attempts to revert. I just don’t have time for it anymore.

we can call it ham-fisted attempts…. Sure.
I am direct. I am blunt. I don’t have time to screw around. I’m not interested in the cloak and dagger sh*t. Setting up times to go to bed, implying that I’m waiting for her to come to bed, etc. I was about to have a brain aneurism trying to figure that all out. Besides, I’ll never be in bed before my wife. She settles down around 7:30pm. She’s a morning person. I’m a night owl. either way, I don’t read subtle signs. Never have been able to. So, it’s pretty much “hey, wanna F?”….. well, more or less. 

As for connecting with her through conversation, that’s all on me. She won’t do it. I actually have to force a 1 hour weekly talk. I’ve tried for more, but she can’t handle it.

your method cannot and will not work with my relationship. I know it may seem like it would work with everyone, but it doesn’t.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> So in your marriage the rules changed sexually? Oral was taken off the menu?


No, I was only saying my idea of foreplay is different than hers. I can get in the mood on the spot, she on the other hand, needs a big production with sparks flying like in the beginning. You can't reproduce that stuff once married, or atleast I can't. She enjoys sex when we have it, it's just getting to that point. 

But if there is a lack of sex, I feel detached from her emotionally. And it shows, whether I mean to or not.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> No slippery slope to be had. I’ve already been there and I promise you, I will never go back. Too many years wasted. My wife knows me extremely well. I will walk out the door if she attempts to revert. I just don’t have time for it anymore.
> 
> we can call it ham-fisted attempts…. Sure.
> I am direct. I am blunt. I don’t have time to screw around. I’m not interested in the cloak and dagger sh*t. Setting up times to go to bed, implying that I’m waiting for her to come to bed, etc. I was about to have a brain aneurism trying to figure that all out. Besides, I’ll never be in bed before my wife. She settles down around 7:30pm. She’s a morning person. I’m a night owl. either way, I don’t read subtle signs. Never have been able to. So, it’s pretty much “hey, wanna F?”….. well, more or less.
> ...


Its interesting how each of you have found a unique and differing way of achiveing success. Kudos for doing so!

Not sure if there is any right or wrong method...still trying things on my end but running out of ideas and patience. Sadly, I don't see any other way anymore aside from the big D.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So in your marriage the rules changed sexually? Oral was taken off the menu?


It changed in mine. We used to have frequent sex and do all kinds of things when dating. Then after "I do" she become "I won't".


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> It changed in mine. We used to have frequent sex and do all kinds of things when dating. Then after "I do" she become "I won't".


That process took 7-8 years for me after the “I do” such that I was thinking of that cliche and wondering why I hadn’t heard it until after I was married and why didn’t my father say anything.

Oddly because my mom is a TMI wild one I know even with many health issues was banging my dad and I wouldn’t be surprised if she is still banging him. So maybe that explains it...


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Its interesting how each of you have found a unique and differing way of achiveing success. Kudos for doing so!
> 
> Not sure if there is any right or wrong method...still trying things on my end but running out of ideas and patience. Sadly, I don't see any other way anymore aside from the big D.


Dallas, Texas?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Dallas, Texas?


_"I'm going though the Big D and don't mean Dallas"_ (sing it!) (Mark Chestnutt)


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Not sure if there is any right or wrong method...


Any ethical method that achieves results is at least useful as a data point.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Any ethical method that achieves results is at least useful as a data point.


Does this mean that watching porn is the “unethical method”?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Does this mean that watching porn is the “unethical method”?


No I was thinking more like blackmail or threats or something like that.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Are you referring to them defaulting to using porn/masturbation because they don't feel like if they bring it up with their wives, they won't really be heard or she will just go on the defensive? I'm sincerely asking (trying to understand), not trying to pick a fight.
> 
> I can admit that I didn't truly understand my husband's needs at times. There were some other issues clouding it from his end, but looking back, I wish I had tried harder to see things from his perspective re: lack of sex. I didn't truly understand what it was like until I became higher drive. I don't know what it would have taken for me to understand. Perhaps if he had driven me to the brink of passion and then got up, said, "That's how I feel when I have no sexual outlet," and walked out, I might have. At least, I'd like to think I would have. But I'm not sure, if I'm being totally honest. I truly didn't understand how he took my lack of desire as a lack of love for and care about him. I just figured he could see that I was sleep deprived and had kids hanging on me and lots of stress. But at the same time, I still yearned for verbal affirmation and appreciation from him, so it makes sense in retrospect that he still needed that physical attention and release from me.


thank you for understanding this, twodecades. Seriously, from the bottom of my heart. I’m sure your husband appreciates it as well. I can’t tell you the number of times over the years I attempted to explain to my wife that I do not feel loved unless I am touched. Honestly, I still don’t think she really gets it. 
I know I’ll be teaching my son and daughter to understand their significant others in the future so that they don’t go down the same path I did.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> . And I say this as somebody who is *relatively* HD.


I nominate Cici for understatement of the year.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


Yes. It gives them unrealistic expectations.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I nominate Cici for understatement of the year.


Haha the thing with HD is that unless you’re freaky there is probably someone more HD. So it’s not an absolute it’s only relative. To that singularly HD person everyone else is LD.

I didn’t appreciate this until I read a story on one of the Reddit deadbedroom subs from a HD lady who was frustrated because she wanted >3x a day and her husband was only good for 1-2.

Keep in mind my earlier assertion of the 3-1 desire gap rule and she was right on the edge of it because relative to him she was pretty damn HD even though many would consider him to be HD on a more of a population as a whole scale. Relative to her though he was LD, and pretty LD at that.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I nominate Cici for understatement of the year.


Ha! 

My comment about my anus was deleted due to being inappropriate. Sorry everybody.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> 😂😂🤣😂 That was awesome! But how do you know it isn't saying, "I'm going to kill you in your sleep" or "This fake vagina will self-destruct"? Though with the latter, maybe there are worse ways to go. My husband always says, when those commercials for ED drugs come on and talk about heart attack or erections lasting more than 24 hours, that it's just a marketing ploy. Most men can think of worse ways to go. 😂
> 
> You mentioned that I'd find a compromise to porn. My husband and I both don't utilize it also because of our moral convictions, so my compromise would be (and has been) to offer a hand or bj, or model some lingerie, etc. Not because it's my job to keep him away from the alternative (as we view that as ultimately up to us), but because I do care about his needs. I understand that people view porn differently, even if I disagree, and you are correct in that I don't expect that everyone is going to think like I do.
> 
> Re: change from lower D to HD, for me, it was a number of different things. He worked on how he related to me, we talked through some things I'd built up resentment about, I no longer had little babies or kids hanging on me and more time for myself, and some of it I just don't understand but think was a hormonal shift. I don't know if any of that applies to your wife or not.


we don’t know what ShenLee is saying. That is what makes it so hot! For all we know, the fake vagina will kill us in our sleep. Yeah, we do it for the thrill of it. 

when I mentioned that it would be simple to find a compromise with you, I mean from the perspective of someone that thinks like me. First, you are HD now. Secondly, you offer a handy or bj or lingerie. Yeah, my wife doesn’t do that. To be honest, she hasn’t done a handy or bj to completion since we were 23. I don’t mind. I’m getting crazy good sex these days…. But those other things on night she doesn’t want to do it sure would be nice. I will give her credit though, she’s been looking up stuff as of late to increase her skill level in BJs. Was about to take me to the end but I stopped it. I like sex too much. However, on a day she doesn’t want sex? Yes, I would definitely like that

so yes, the compromise would be easy. You have covered all bases in the situations someone like myself would use porn, hence, I would have no use for it.
lastly, I had been meaning to ask you what your main reason was for disliking porn, but you answered it in this post “moral convictions”.
I would like for you to expand on that - meaning, I consider myself to be morally sound. I follow the golden rule. I treat others the way I would want to be treated. I have been a good husband. I’m a good father. I would give the shirt off my back to anyone who would ask or if I see someone in need.
And I use porn for a mechanical release as opposed to finding another woman to take care of me other than my wife.
When I read someone say “I don’t like porn due to my moral convictions”, it makes me feel like I’m being told that I am immoral. Personally, I don’t think you mean that when you say it. I’ve read many of your posts and you don’t strike me as someone that considers themselves above others due to their morality. I am just curious to hear more details for your convictions.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes. It gives them unrealistic expectations.


Done and done.
We have our answer. No need to discuss any further.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> Ha!
> 
> My comment about my anus was deleted due to being inappropriate. Sorry everybody.


Well isn't that a pain in the ass? LOL


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Haha the thing with HD is that unless you’re freaky there is probably someone more HD. So it’s not an absolute it’s only relative. To that singularly HD person everyone else is LD.
> 
> I didn’t appreciate this until I read a story on one of the Reddit deadbedroom subs from a HD lady who was frustrated because she wanted >3x a day and her husband was only good for 1-2.
> 
> Keep in mind my earlier assertion of the 3-1 desire gap rule and she was right on the edge of it because relative to him she was pretty damn HD even though many would consider him to be HD on a more of a population as a whole scale. Relative to her though he was LD, and pretty LD at that.


I would really hate to be so HD that I needed sex 3x daily or I’d feel unsatisfied. I imagine those people are left feeling unsatisfied a lot of the time. Some days I do want it 3 times and can have sex 3-5 times but that amount isn’t something I crave daily and I’m not sure how I’d ever manage to get anything else done if it was. I never labeled myself as HD. I never thought about it in those terms before. I knew I had sex more than most people I know in “real life” who actually talk about that sort of thing. Luckily my husband and I are very compatible in this area - woo hoo, one major area we DON’T have to worry about for a change. Once a day is satisfying for both of us and what we ideally prefer and what happens when our relationship is good overall. Sometimes more than once in an day if we feel like it, sometimes maybe only 5 days a week, but it’s not something we keep score of or fret about. I think our record is 10-12 times in a single Saturday-Sunday weekend.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

For me I start to notice and be frustrated on the 3rd day. So skipped two nights and during the 3rd day I am not happy. I could take care of it myself but to be honest I don’t even know how well that would work.

My wife knows this now and she will often give me a special treat. I’d rather not let it get like that.

Today she’s had a bad day, she feels bad, is behind on work, and she’s on her period. So no sex tonight and that’s fine. Probably even no big deal tomorrow. But Thursday it will be swiggidy swooty time.

I think right now I could “rise” to the challenge of 3x/7d a week. 

It is more than I would naturally initiate but for a long time maybe 2-3 years we had sex at least twice a day when we were in our 20s and I would do that now if I knew my wife had interest at having sex at 4:30am when I get up. Unfortunately she’d probably rather have a bucket of cold water thrown on her.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

HD is relative to the situation you are in. I’m sure there are a lot of people who “think” they are HD compared to their spouse. But, they are not really HD compared to the single population.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

I rather have sex once a day and then a daily massage or my dinner cooked for me every night. I love sex but there are other things, especially after a long day or work and running around, that sound almost as orgasmic in another way...especially if it involves me having to put zero effort in.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Sometimes more than once in an day if we feel like it, sometimes maybe only 5 days a week, but it’s not something we keep score of or fret about.


I was happy to learn I wasn't the only one that kept score once I read ccpowerslave's thread. I can't help it. I'm a process engineer. I need my plant running in tip top shape. Efficiency is key. Always look for ways to improve production. 

I show my wife the weekly average of our "production" at the end of every month. She's done exceptionally well for calendar year 2021 - problem is, once you show management your true potential, they expect you to perform at that level or higher from now on. 

Such is life. 

Sorry, not sorry.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> I rather have sex once a day and then a daily massage or my dinner cooked for me every night. I love sex but there are other things, especially after a long day or work and running around, that sound almost as orgasmic in another way...especially if it involves me having to put zero effort in.


I cook my wife dinner almost every night and I even do the dishes, if I didn’t that means I took her out instead. If I didn’t we’d be eating popcorn and quesadillas every night.

I also give her back massages with optional jojoba if she requests.

She’s not lacking in the pampering dept.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I was happy to learn I wasn't the only one that kept score once I read ccpowerslave's thread. I can't help it. I'm a process engineer. I need my plant running in tip top shape. Efficiency is key. Always look for ways to improve production.
> 
> I show my wife the weekly average of our "production" at the end of every month. She's done exceptionally well for calendar year 2021 - problem is, once you show management your true potential, they expect you to perform at that level or higher from now on.
> 
> ...


I would hate if my spouse kept track and gave me weekly or monthly reports. It’s probably result in a big “I’m not effing you for a WHOLE MONTH now! Zero - how do you like how that number looks all over your little chart!” 

No judgement on you...I’d just hate it and it’d probably make me feel bad and just like you said....as if I had to keep up with my best performance or strive to achieve even greater “production.”


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> I rather have sex once a day and then a daily massage or my dinner cooked for me every night. I love sex but there are other things, especially after a long day or work and running around, that sound almost as orgasmic in another way...especially if it involves me having to put zero effort in.


Have your husband watch some YouTube videos and get a massage table. I got one for my wife a few years back. I've worked so many knots out of her back, legs, arms and neck over the years. She doesn't even bother going to day spas anymore. Says the masseuse there can't work her muscles hard enough. She absolutely loves it. 

Of course, the table doubles for fun times as well. In relation to the unreal expectations for women as it concerns porn, I can't stop laughing. I offer massages to my wife with no strings attached. However, if we know it is going to lead to sex, we can't help ourselves but throw cheesy massage porn lines to each other during the massage. We have a lot of fun with it and it involves a lot of laughs. 

Her: why are you getting up on the table?
Me: I need to use an ancient technique I learned during my travels through Nepal. It's a special internal massage technique. 
Her: does it really require you to remove your pants?
Me: yes. 
Her: what kind of place is this?!


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I cook my wife dinner almost every night and I even do the dishes, if I didn’t that means I took her out instead. If I didn’t we’d be eating popcorn and quesadillas every night.
> 
> I also give her back massages with optional jojoba if she requests.
> 
> She’s not lacking in the pampering dept.



If I ever get a massage from him, sex is always expected. I’ll say “I don’t want to have sex afterwards. I just want a massage and then to be able to fall asleep because I’ll feel so relaxed.” He’ll say ok, just a massage and no sex, got it. I think I’m going to be able to just get rubbed and feel good and then drift off into blissful sleep. Nope. He always wants sex afterwards. He says “But I can’t help that I get so horny from touching you all over your body.” Please. 

My husband never cooks dinner and never cleans the dishes either. He can cook. He can even cook some things better than me. But he hates doing it and always has something better or more important to do. It’s not as if he sits there while I’m slaving away - but he’d pick just about anything else to do with his time than cooking or cleaning the kitchen afterwards. If I don’t cook we either go out to dinner or order in and he pays.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> I would hate if my spouse kept track and gave me weekly or monthly reports. It’s probably result in a big “I’m not effing you for a WHOLE MONTH now! Zero - how do you like how that number looks all over your little chart!”
> 
> No judgement on you...I’d just hate it and it’d probably make me feel bad and just like you said....as if I had to keep up with my best performance or strive to achieve even greater “production.”


I wouldn't like zeros on my chart. I wouldn't like it at all. It would be a very sad chart. 

Fair enough. It's not for everyone. My wife has actually liked it. I put notes on it as well. Realize my wife also seeks validation, but in her own way. She loves "gold stars". Like a child at school. She wants to be the best. She wants more gold stars than her peers. My chart is very gold star oriented.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Have your husband watch some YouTube videos and get a massage table. I got one for my wife a few years back. I've worked so many knots out of her back, legs, arms and neck over the years. She doesn't even bother going to day spas anymore. Says the masseuse there can't work her muscles hard enough. She absolutely loves it.
> 
> Of course, the table doubles for fun times as well. In relation to the unreal expectations for women as it concerns porn, I can't stop laughing. I offer massages to my wife with no strings attached. However, if we know it is going to lead to sex, we can't help ourselves but throw cheesy massage porn lines to each other during the massage. We have a lot of fun with it and it involves a lot of laughs.
> 
> ...


I’m jealous. I can’t imagine my husband ever buying a massage table for the purpose of giving me massages in a million years!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> . He says “But I can’t help that I get so horny from touching you all over your body.” Please.


😆😆😆😆😆😆
While 100% true, I learned this line NEVER WORKS by the age of 25. 

Again, to those that don't like porn, is it not better for me to show discipline to my wife - who just wanted a massage and then take a nap? Not bother her for sex? Show her I can do a selfless thing for her benefit? I can assure you, she is thankful for porn after she receives a massage as opposed to me constantly badgering her as if she now "owes" me something. I get my mechanical release, she peacefully sleeps. 

Sounds like a win-win.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I was happy to learn I wasn't the only one that kept score once I read ccpowerslave's thread. I can't help it. I'm a process engineer.


I originally started keeping track because I was literally going nuts last year. I was doing my inadvertent 180 and was thinking what the hell is wrong with this situation? 

So I started gathering evidence to prove to myself I wasn’t crazy. I had thoughts like, wow is she starting to reject me for the evening at 9am? The answer was actually yes. She would start telling me about her maladies as early as 9am and then proceed to stay up until 2am watching TV.

So after I convinced myself it was not right, I was like you want to work on this or not because this is a deal breaker for me.

She agreed it was a problem and she wanted to try. At the point I confronted her I was prepared for her to say nah dude I’ll pass so I had already accepted leaving as a possible consequence.

At that point I needed it to make sure I wasn’t unfair about what was actually happening. My state of mind wasn’t 100% right and I didn’t trust my feelings to be an accurate record of things so I had to make one just to be fair.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> While 100% true, I learned this line NEVER WORKS by the age of 25.


No strings attached massages and touch are actually critical as I have come to learn. The “look I have a boner now” initiation style ain’t happening.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> No strings attached massages and touch are actually critical as I have come to learn. The “look I have a boner now” initiation style ain’t happening.


Can someone please relay this to my husband.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Can someone please relay this to my husband.


Massage table. Hot oil. 

He should do this. Why? Because it increases the chances of sex after the massage to greater than 60%. Yes, there will still be plenty of times it doesn't end in sex, but those two things combined has definitely turned my wife from not in the mood to insatiable. 

Also, he needs to learn mantra I've come to know well:

Set the expectation bar low, that way you'll never be disappointed.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I hate stories of turnarounds and success, people shagging 3 times a day, HD wives... it's just so depressing...


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> we don’t know what ShenLee is saying. That is what makes it so hot! For all we know, the fake vagina will kill us in our sleep. Yeah, we do it for the thrill of it.
> 
> when I mentioned that it would be simple to find a compromise with you, I mean from the perspective of someone that thinks like me. First, you are HD now. Secondly, you offer a handy or bj or lingerie. Yeah, my wife doesn’t do that. To be honest, she hasn’t done a handy or bj to completion since we were 23. I don’t mind. I’m getting crazy good sex these days…. But those other things on night she doesn’t want to do it sure would be nice. I will give her credit though, she’s been looking up stuff as of late to increase her skill level in BJs. Was about to take me to the end but I stopped it. I like sex too much. However, on a day she doesn’t want sex? Yes, I would definitely like that
> 
> ...


Thank you for the question about what I mean by "moral convictions." I appreciate your asking rather than attacking. I feel like in our current culture there are a lot of people attacking, getting offended and flying off the handle (admittedly, I am not immune to it, either) instead of asking questions in order to understand and find possible common ground. And agreeing to disagree. People definitely don't need my validation for their choices.

I come at this issue from two different perspectives. One is a behavior health perspective (as I'm a very cause and effect type of person), and the other one is a moral one. When I say moral, I'm using that as a synonym for religious convictions, because for me, my moral convictions are shaped by my faith/religion. It doesn't mean that I'm looking down on you or others for using pornography. I actually can't say that I "dislike" porn, as I actually do understand why it appeals. I think there's a misconception that anyone who isn't in favor of using it is simply not turned on by it. However, my religious beliefs impart to me that just because I _can_ do something doesn't mean it's wise for me to do it. I have to use a different filter to sift through my choices (which admittedly, I'm not always good at doing). I don't expect someone who doesn't share my religious beliefs to also share those same convictions; though if you do, awesome. That's not me thinking I'm superior to you or anyone else, only realizing that you're going to come at it from a different place. Does that make sense?

One could make an argument for ethical (social justice) objections, such as that is has ties to human trafficking, etc. From what I understand, there are a lot of people producing their own content, and I would imagine that's changed those dynamics. You could also make the argument that by consuming porn, you're helping people to degrade or exploit themselves. Some would counter that it's a form of artistic expression. (And interestingly, what is seen now on the beach or on tv or billboard ads for all sorts of products would have been considered pornographic in the 1930s, so where do you draw the line?) I actually don't have a desire to legislate morality, however, from a golden rule perspective, I do have to ask myself, would I want my daughters doing that kind of work? Or sons? If not, is it okay for me to be consuming it? (It's not practical to apply that caveat to everything, but what do I have control over that I can?) That's a question that each person has to answer for him or herself. It's stupid for me to answer it for them.

From a behavioral health perspective, I would take the position of fightthenewdrug.org (they are not religious). Though to your point, given the choice of 1) masturbation and/or porn for mechanical release or 2) having sex with a woman who isn't your wife, I'd have to agree that, yes, option 1 is better than throwing a grenade on your marriage and torching your family. And I do understand at least some of your sexual frustration, believe me.

For me, I've found that by not turning to masturbation/porn, it forces me to deal with the issues with my husband, as ccpowerslave said. I don't look to anyone or anywhere outside of my husband to fulfill my sexual needs (that's part of the religious conviction), and in committing to that, it's led to unexpected benefits, such as understanding him and his perspective better. It's also caused me to grow and learn how to delay my own gratification.

Again, I'm coming at this from the perspective of a woman, not a man. I guess I'm HD for a woman in that I'd like some form of sex every day (and I find the more I have it, the more I desire it, which I'm not sure is how men work). I obviously don't have the same mechanical release requirements, either. Incidentally, I've tried to talk my husband into sex by convincing him that I'm just trying to look out for his prostate. I think the word "prostate" conjured up images of yearly physicals and didn't help the mood much. 😂

None of that was meant as an apologetic or sermon, by the way. It's just where I'm coming from. I appreciate getting to read different perspectives and have learned from what others have shared, especially some of the men.

(Edited a bit for clarity and typos. Thank you to TIH for allowing us to discuss these things on her thread.)


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I hate stories of turnarounds and success, people shagging 3 times a day, HD wives... it's just so depressing...


I say "pictures or it didn't happen"


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I say "pictures or it didn't happen"


you see lots of stories on the internet of wild sex and women doing all types of things most seem to be from sad loners that are like dogs running after a car if the car stopped they run away


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Because it increases the chances of sex after the massage to greater than 60%. Yes, there will still be plenty of times it doesn't end in sex, but those two things combined has definitely turned my wife from not in the mood to insatiable.


The thought process I had was to go back to when we were first dating and we were having sex all the time many times a day. I was going over all the things that had changed in terms of my behavior.

One of the things I did then was I gave her foot massages and back massages regularly with no sex immediately after.

I vaguely remembered during my research phase that trying to connect sex to something she doesn’t view as sexual is counterproductive. So I bought some jojoba and a couple massage books and started trying to get my skills up.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

From my experience, generally, the people claiming sex 10x/week and 2-3X a day while married for a decade or more are exaggerating greatly.

Studies have shown that most married couples are having sex once a week. For the parters that want more, they masturbate, cheat or divorce.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> Studies have shown that most married couples are having sex once a week. For the parters that want more, they masturbate, cheat or divorce.


Hmm well this month so far 16x in 22 days been married over 20 years, so averaging just a bit over 5x a week which seems to be around where we settled at.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm well this month so far 16x in 22 days been married over 20 years, so averaging just a bit over 5x a week which seems to be around where we settled at.


But this is because you put in a lot of intentional effort to make it that way. The average couple does not. I think unless a couple is very intentional about having sex multiple times a day, every day, and they have a lifestyle that enables them the luxury to do so, it’s just not really going to happen. And I think the average couple also has children and also has other stressors (such as financial problems, which it doesn’t sound like you have...NOT saying you and your wife don’t have other stressors, I’m just talking about very common ones that the average couple probably does have). For women especially, I think having many other obligations and stressors really affects the sex drive...and depending on what other things are going on that require their time, it may be hard to even find the time to do it more than a few times a week unless the couple is intentional about it and makes it a priority.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cici1990 said:


> But this is because you put in a lot of intentional effort to make it that way.


Going downstairs every evening to check what his wife is doing must be exhausting, especially for his wife...


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Going downstairs every evening to check what his wife is doing must be exhausting, especially for his wife...


I think he puts more effort into it than that. Correct me if I’m wrong, ccpowerslave, but wasn’t it you who said you had unintentionally started the 180 and that you also were at the point where you were considering leaving your wife if the sex did not improve (meaning increase in frequency), or am I thinking of somebody else? He also stopped masturbating. I don’t know, just sounds like there’s more effort than simply checking on his wife before bed and it has to be apparent to her, which I would assume may increase her desire for him. I mean, if you are a fat lazy slob complaining your wife doesn’t sleep with you enough compared to somebody who is getting up at 4:30 AM and running miles, working out, looking good, giving you massages (intentionally learning how to actually give a massage for her benefit), pampering you, no longer jerking off to porn and only wants you, the real thing, and is almost always ready to please you...yeah all that effort is related to sexual desire and sex in general. And for a lot of women, that stuff will make a difference in how much they might be interested in screwing you or at least giving you a really good BJ at night if they don’t feel like taking their pants off and getting sweaty. I mean, this guy keeps track of how often they have sex. He’s intentional about it, more than the average married man who gets sex once a week probably is. Let’s be real - the average married man isn’t like this.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

RebuildingMe said:


> From my experience, generally, the people claiming sex 10x/week and 2-3X a day while married for a decade or more are exaggerating greatly.
> 
> Studies have shown that most married couples are having sex once a week. For the parters that want more, they masturbate, cheat or divorce.


Well I'm married 27+ years and we are having sex more than once a week. I don't know who these studies ask or what age the participants are....
When we had a small child once a week or less might have been true for a year or two.

Now no small children living the high life well 4-8 typical sometimes more, sometimes less.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Well I'm married 27+ years and we are having sex more than once a week. I don't know who these studies ask or what age the participants are....
> When we had a small child once a week or less might have been true for a year or two.
> 
> Now no small children living the high life well 4-8 typical sometimes more, sometimes less.


A 2017 study published in Archives of Sexual Behavior studied the sexual behavior of just over 26,000 people from 1989 to 2014. It found that the average adult has sex 54 times a year, or an average of about once a week.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Cici1990 said:


> A 2017 study published in Archives of Sexual Behavior studied the sexual behavior of just over 26,000 people from 1989 to 2014. It found that the average adult has sex 54 times a year, or an average of about once a week.


Don't doubt it. Did that study include only married couples? How many had children, small children... there are many variables. I'm simply stating that many times sex dips for a reason. But the married people of decades only having sex once a week doesn't have to be typical. For instance if one couple is sexless then another couple could be doing 2 a week to average to 1/wk.

And single people vary widely due to lack of partner or many partners.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

we are in our late 50s and twice a week is a bout normal and at our age is enough , but WE work together and together 24/ 7 work long days but i don't mind seducing the boss at work the odd day , lol 
but yes i like to give complements many times a day , it lets her know she is still the one that turns me on the most


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Don't doubt it. Did that study include only married couples? How many had children, small children... there are many variables. I'm simply stating that many times sex dips for a reason. But the married people of decades only having sex once a week doesn't have to be typical. For instance if one couple is sexless then another couple could be doing 2 a week to average to 1/wk.
> 
> And single people vary widely due to lack of partner or many partners.











Declines in Sexual Frequency among American Adults, 1989–2014 - Archives of Sexual Behavior


American adults had sex about nine fewer times per year in the early 2010s compared to the late 1990s in data from the nationally representative General Social Survey, N = 26,620, 1989–2014. This was partially due to the higher percentage of unpartnered individuals, who have sex less frequently...




link.springer.com





Some interesting numbers here.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

In that study I linked to, I was very interested to see this: 

“Declines in sexual frequency were similar across gender, race, region, educational level, and work status and were largest among those in their 50s, those with school-age children, and those who did not watch pornography.” 

I’m particularly interested in the part about the porn. Sexual frequency decreases in this who do not watch porn. Interesting indeed.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Cici1990 said:


> In that study I linked to, I was very interested to see this:
> 
> “Declines in sexual frequency were similar across gender, race, region, educational level, and work status and were largest among those in their 50s, those with school-age children, and those who did not watch pornography.”
> 
> I’m particularly interested in the part about the porn. Sexual frequency decreases in this who do not watch porn. Interesting.


I think porn is harmful in most relationship where only one person watches.

I agree that it often leads to a general dissatisfaction.

I wonder how much of the decline in the 50's deals with erectile disfunction or menipause.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think porn is harmful in most relationship where only one person watches.
> 
> I agree that it often leads to a general dissatisfaction.
> 
> I wonder how much of the decline in the 50's deals with erectile disfunction or menipause.


In my opinion, porn is acceptable if it doesn't affect the sexual relationship. Regarding the decline, whatever you say - ED, menopause - you'll always find someone here who will claim the opposite. Same thing for sex frequency. There's always someone saying they have sex every day twice a day... can we trust studies? Probably more than TAM...


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Massage table. Hot oil.
> 
> He should do this. Why? Because it increases the chances of sex after the massage to greater than 60%. Yes, there will still be plenty of times it doesn't end in sex, but those two things combined has definitely turned my wife from not in the mood to insatiable.
> 
> ...


I bought a massage table a few years ago, best investment ever. It is quite sturdy  My wife loves massages, probably as much or more than sex if I'm being honest. I will give her one anytime she asks and I'll often offer it up even if she doesn't. The only catch is we both have to be naked. Although sex isn't obligated after a massage it is pretty rare that it isn't a result. It has proven to be a great form of foreplay.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> In my opinion, porn is acceptable if it doesn't affect the sexual relationship. Regarding the decline, whatever you say - ED, menopause - you'll always find someone here who will claim the opposite. Same thing for sex frequency. There's always someone saying they have sex every day twice a day... can we trust studies? Probably more than TAM...


Well, you’ll always have those outliers...people who really do have sex twice a day (but again, I think they are very intentional about it or both partners are HD and it just comes naturally). There are also the married people who have sex 5 times a year, which also isn’t typical.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think porn is harmful in most relationship where only one person watches.
> 
> I agree that it often leads to a general dissatisfaction.
> 
> I wonder how much of the decline in the 50's deals with erectile disfunction or menipause.


But this study is saying that people who DO NOT watch porn have sex LESS frequently. So essentially it’s saying less porn = less real sex. It’s not necessarily supporting the idea that porn is harmful or results in dissatisfaction. But I am sure there could be other variables that may effect the correlation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I bought a massage table a few years ago, best investment ever. It is quite sturdy  My wife loves massages, probably as much or more than sex if I'm being honest. I will give her one anytime she asks and I'll often offer it up even if she doesn't. The only catch is we both have to be naked. Although sex isn't obligated after a massage it is pretty rare that it isn't a result. It has proven to be a great form of foreplay.


I take you don't have kids in the house?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

RebuildingMe said:


> From my experience, generally, the people claiming sex 10x/week and 2-3X a day while married for a decade or more are exaggerating greatly.
> 
> Studies have shown that most married couples are having sex once a week. For the parters that want more, they masturbate, cheat or divorce.


I'm always up for more, but I really can't complain. After 30+ years we typically have sex 4 maybe 5 times a week. 2 or 3 of those are probably on the weekend. And when we go above that average it is almost always from a 3x day on the weekend. I think we save all our energy up for the weekend, but now way I could do that every day.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I bought a massage table a few years ago, best investment ever. It is quite sturdy  My wife loves massages, probably as much or more than sex if I'm being honest. I will give her one anytime she asks and I'll often offer it up even if she doesn't. The only catch is we both have to be naked. Although sex isn't obligated after a massage it is pretty rare that it isn't a result. It has proven to be a great form of foreplay.


See, you say sex isn’t an obligation but a catch of her getting a massage is that you both have to be naked so it’s kind of implied that sex is the direction you’d like it to go in. I’m sure massages, especially naked ones, go in this direction for many couples. Which is fine, especially if both partners seem to enjoy when a massage leads in that direction. For me, I like a good massage just as much as sex, sometimes even more. I DO NOT want it to lead to sex. I do not want to do any physical activity after a good massage. I want to relax and sleep. I don’t want to be bothered by anybody. I stopped asking for massages because I was so tired of feeling obligated to have sex afterwards that it totally took the pleasure of the massage away. I don’t get turned on by a massage but maybe that’s because I have to beg and plead for it and so it’s like a duty massage where I’m expected to reward the half assed effort with sex.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> I don’t know, just sounds like there’s more effort than simply checking on his wife before bed and it has to be apparent to her, which I would assume may increase her desire for him.


I did and am doing quite a lot of things. Some active that require input from me, some passive. Some are absolutely terrible I have one of those things coming up in a few weeks.

Absolutely terrible = trip to do outdoor nature stuff with some of her extended family staying at hotel with no TV in the room and **** LTE one bar Internet and a DSL connection shared for like 400 rooms. No spa, no concierge, only a single dining option, it’s basically barbarism.

No alcohol or bars for most of it and we’re all cramming into an 8 passenger rented car. That is my idea of hell. However I am going to figure out how to enjoy it, I’m not sure how yet. My wife has tried about 20 times to let me off the hook on it but I am going. I also decided I’m not bringing any weed gummies, so taking the full force of it right in the face.

I can almost guarantee if I pull off having fun on this trip she will be over the moon happy once the stress of entertaining people passes and the result will be improved desire.

There are many smaller things on a day to day basis. I started taking her on intentional dates where I arrange it and take her out at night. This has been hit or miss; but the more I listen to what she wants like no big dress up production and me limiting alcohol the more it works in my favor. Going back to things we used to do when first married and while dating has also been a gold mine.

I go on a walk with her every afternoon for a mile so she gets up and moves. For me this is not an efficient use of exercise time as I could be doing something much harder, but it’s what she wants to do and she won’t do it by herself. Since I do it with her every day she actually does it and is on a six month streak of every day. It’s also an opportunity to chat for 20 minutes. 

What CiCi mentioned in terms of competing interests for her time I did not find successful. So freeing up her time doesn’t seem to have an effect on how often she will have sex.

In terms of myself I am almost at fighting weight to where my doctor said I shouldn’t drop more than 5lbs. Athletically my stats are roughly where I was at 10 years ago when I was training for club level boxing. I get a haircut at a salon every month. I sometimes wear clothes other than track pants and Slayer shirts. Basically tightened up my game a lot.

So yes I invest a lot of time and energy into this. As CiCi s I also have a lot of financial resources so I am not limited there.

What did I trade out? Working, playing video games, 4 hours a week commuting (thanks Covid), watching political TV.

Easy trade.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I take you don't have kids in the house?


I bought that table the year my youngest was a senior in high school, so no kids really. When I bought it and my oldest saw it for the first time, she kind of gave me this sideways look, lol. She knew what was going on.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> In my opinion, porn is acceptable if it doesn't affect the sexual relationship. Regarding the decline, whatever you say - ED, menopause - you'll always find someone here who will claim the opposite. Same thing for sex frequency. There's always someone saying they have sex every day twice a day... can we trust studies? Probably more than TAM...


And how do you quantify general dissatisfaction? The thread that this thread was spun off of was a guy who could have sex whenever he wants. His wife will try or do whatever he asks for but he is generally dissatisfied because she doesn't have wild fantasies or get super pleasure out of giving him a blow job.

I think porn is insidious and most users don't realize the effects it is having so saying it doesn't effect the relationship is hard to say.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> I wonder how much of the decline in the 50's deals with erectile disfunction or menipause.


Haha, in the past I have joked that it's a wonder we have sex at all, ED/post menopausal. I'm mid 50s, she is late 50s. We manage it at least once a week, but what was once effortless now requires a lot of effort (by that I mean just getting into the bedroom).

It's unexpected or even counter intuitive but since we fully retired we're having less sex. We've gotten lazy (that effort I mentioned) because we always have time tomorrow. We are aware of that and have talked about it


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> I do not want to do any physical activity after a good massage. I want to relax and sleep.


Wife is the same. “Now that I am relaxed the last thing I want to do is break that.” I have learned to treat it as a clinical thing like she is a patient and then no more erections and I can let her just enjoy it then go take a cold shower.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I did and am doing quite a lot of things. Some active that require input from me, some passive. Some are absolutely terrible I have one of those things coming up in a few weeks.
> 
> Absolutely terrible = trip to do outdoor nature stuff with some of her extended family staying at hotel with no TV in the room and **** LTE one bar Internet and a DSL connection shared for like 400 rooms. No spa, no concierge, only a single dining option, it’s basically barbarism.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the more detailed info. Yes, the average man getting sex 1 time a week or less is simply not like this at all. Some may be. Some men are probably putting in a lot of effort and still getting nothing, but I think that’s a very small “some.”


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

CharlieParker said:


> Haha, in the past I have joked that it's a wonder we have sex at all, ED/post menopausal. I'm mid 50s, she is late 50s. We manage it at least once a week, but what was once effortless now requires a lot of effort (by that I mean just getting into the bedroom).
> 
> It's unexpected or even counter intuitive but since we fully retired we're having less sex. We've gotten lazy (that effort I mentioned) because we always have time tomorrow. We are aware of that and have talked about it


Yeah we aren't retired yet but are early 50's. We have sex now more than when we were dating.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> See, you say sex isn’t an obligation but a catch of her getting a massage is that you both have to be naked so it’s kind of implied that sex is the direction you’d like it to go in. I’m sure massages, especially naked ones, go in this direction for many couples. Which is fine, especially if both partners seem to enjoy when a massage leads in that direction. For me, I like a good massage just as much as sex, sometimes even more. I DO NOT want it to lead to sex. I do not want to do any physical activity after a good massage. I want to relax and sleep. I don’t want to be bothered by anybody. I stopped asking for massages because I was so tired of feeling obligated to have sex afterwards that it totally took the pleasure of the massage away. I don’t get turned on by a massage but maybe that’s because I have to beg and plead for it and so it’s like a duty massage where I’m expected to reward the half assed effort with sex.


You're right, there is some implication there, but my wife is very clear when she isn't interested in sex and I don't push it. There are also times I can see she needs a massage and I'll tell her upfront, no obligation. It doesn't stop us from getting naked though. Honestly we both just like being naked together, even if we aren't having sex. And I never half ass a massage. Usually the massages are a good hour of quality massaging.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I didn’t appreciate this until I read a story on one of the Reddit deadbedroom subs from a* HD lady who was frustrated because she wanted >3x a day and her husband was only good for 1-2.*


She needed two more of him


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Well, you’ll always have those outliers...people who really do have sex twice a day (but again, I think they are very intentional about it or both partners are HD and it just comes naturally). There are also the married people who have sex 5 times a year, which also isn’t typical.


You hit the nail on the head when you stated or it's intentional. 

It is that. The physical relationship is very important and worthy of the attention given to the details that create frequent and high quality encounters between a couple. 

It's very intentional. It starts from being HD I suppose and recognizing the importance and value of maintaining the togetherness even through life's stages.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anastasia6 said:


> And how do you quantify general dissatisfaction? The thread that this thread was spun off of was a guy who could have sex whenever he wants. His wife will try or do whatever he asks for but he is generally dissatisfied because she doesn't have wild fantasies or get super pleasure out of giving him a blow job.
> 
> I think porn is insidious and most users don't realize the effects it is having so saying it doesn't effect the relationship is hard to say.


How do I quantify general dissatisfaction? How long is a piece of string? The guy of the thread had clearly not thought his marriage through properly. I was the same. It was never enough, although we were having it once a week. When it became twice a month, I accepted it, because I finally understood what the marriage was all about. But it was too late, I guess.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

@Cici1990, as a new WW, do you think it's insensitive at all to be debating sexual issues/topics on a betrayed wife's thread, given all that Torninhalf has been through? She strikes me as spunky, tough lady, so I realize that she doesn't need me to stick up for her. I also realize the mods have no problem with it, but I guess I'm just surprised that you're spending your time in these topics and in this thread, given the circumstances.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> @Cici1990, as a new WW, do you think it's insensitive at all to be debating sexual issues/topics on a betrayed wife's thread, given all that Torninhalf has been through? She strikes me as spunky, tough lady, so I realize that she doesn't need me to stick up for her. I also realize the mods have no problem with it, but I guess I'm just surprised that you're spending your time in these topics and in this thread, given the circumstances.


Oops, sorry, I forgot to put my scarlet letter on today. I’ll go back to my WW hole and jump in so nobody has to see me.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Oops, sorry, I forgot to put my scarlet letter on today. I’ll go back to my WW hole and jump in so nobody has to see me.


It's just that the above response--and your posts--might be indicative of boundaries issues and your need for attention. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not going to belabor the issue.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Well this thread has certainly taken off and I appreciate everyone’s opinion and feedback. Naturally people discuss what is relevant to them and their experiences. I never mind a thread jack. 😂
I will say that there were a few things that were interjected that kinda took me off guard as I’m sure it did for others. 
I saw those things as nothing more than what they were. A means to shock. 
It’s all good and I appreciate the lively conversation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I will say that there were a few things that were interjected that kinda took me off guard as I’m sure it did for others.


I have no idea what you are talking about?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I have no idea what you are talking about?


I believe a post or 2 may have been deleted. 🤷🏼‍♀️😂


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I believe a post or 2 may have been deleted. 🤷🏼‍♀️😂


Because you reported them?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> Because you reported them?


Not at all. I laughed at them 😂


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I believe a post or 2 may have been deleted. 🤷🏼‍♀️😂


OK, I must have missed them. I do tend to skip a lot of the nonsense...


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> It's just that the above response--and your posts--might be indicative of boundaries issues and your need for attention. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm not going to belabor the issue.


I like attention for my looks and nobody here at TAM is looking at me. 

But you’re right...I’m never allowed to talk about sex again, especially when men are around....tsk tsk tsk. I better go report this misstep to my husband immediately. Guess what? I’ve also private messaged with a male member of TAM. Actually, a few male members. Oh no. I better email my husband copies of everything that was said lest he starts to think I’m having an online affair now.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> Thank you for the more detailed info. Yes, the average man getting sex 1 time a week or less is simply not like this at all. Some may be. Some men are probably putting in a lot of effort and still getting nothing, but I think that’s a very small “some.”


I used to put in a lot of effort (like CC) but it never paid off so yes, you are right, married guys like me don't try as much anymore. Two years of efforts with no noticable improvement so I have given up. Now I just try in initiate every so often but I am done going any farther as the end results were still the same.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Thank you for the question about what I mean by "moral convictions." I appreciate your asking rather than attacking. I feel like in our current culture there are a lot of people attacking, getting offended and flying off the handle (admittedly, I am not immune to it, either) instead of asking questions in order to understand and find possible common ground. And agreeing to disagree. People definitely don't need my validation for their choices.
> 
> I come at this issue from two different perspectives. One is a behavior health perspective (as I'm a very cause and effect type of person), and the other one is a moral one. When I say moral, I'm using that as a synonym for religious convictions, because for me, my moral convictions are shaped by my faith/religion. It doesn't mean that I'm looking down on you or others for using pornography. I actually can't say that I "dislike" porn, as I actually do understand why it appeals. I think there's a misconception that anyone who isn't in favor of using it is simply not turned on by it. However, my religious beliefs impart to me that just because I _can_ do something doesn't mean it's wise for me to do it. I have to use a different filter to sift through my choices (which admittedly, I'm not always good at doing). I don't expect someone who doesn't share my religious beliefs to also share those same convictions; though if you do, awesome. That's not me thinking I'm superior to you or anyone else, only realizing that you're going to come at it from a different place. Does that make sense?
> 
> ...


You are a good person, TwoDecades. 

Thank you so much for this post. Seriously, much appreciated. It takes a lot of empathy and introspection to look at someone else's perspective whom you disagree with. 

The ethical and behavioral health perspectives are simpler to address. First, I would never agree to supporting human trafficking. Secondly, I much prefer the couples that make their own. To me, there is no exploitation there. It's just two HD people that want to "share". 

Secondly, the behavioral health perspective. This argument would hold a lot more water if my wife was similar to you. If she felt strongly against porn, I would listen and work with her to come to a comprimise (such as you've done with your husband). She actually encourages it. She watches it herself and we will watch together from time to time. Hell, my favorite thing in the world is for her to interupt a "session", turn it off and take over. If this was something that was emotionally hurting my wife, I definitely would revisit my thought process on watching it. I attempt to have serious discussions with my wife all of the time. I can squeeze 1 hour out of her per week. A lot of the times we skip and go 3 weeks without. It unfortunately causes arguments between us as I don't like to skip. She gets emotional, anxious and overwhelmed easily. There is only so much I can do here. I am the one who pushes for more emotional connection, so I don't think anyone can say I'm not doing my part here.

The more difficult one is the religion/faith issue. I look at religion and faith as two VERY different things. I have a very strong Christian faith, but I gave up on religion years ago (basically once I moved to college). Faith is from the Divine. Religion is man-made. Like anything man-made, it is corrupted. Some religious leaders are great people. Some are not. For those that aren't good people (but act like they are), I will NEVER do what they say I must do. Never. I got tired of growing up in a highly religious community being told I'd go to hell for masterbation. Hating myself as a teenage boy started to suck pretty bad. If you have a strong community around your church, that is great. Some churches are really great. I've never had that experience. Just look at what happened to Ben Zobrist. That really got under my skin this morning. He is a great guy. Did wonderful things for his community. I thought the same of his wife. She was also very active in the community. She made it very known that she has a strong faith in God and in her church - then she goes and f*cks their pastor. Just like that, Juliana Zobrist is a piece of trash. Hopefully that helps with understanding that I could never have someone like Juliana Zobrist tell me that porn is bad. Glass houses, Juliana. Glass houses. 

I think it would be interesting if you looked closer to religion and faith as two separate things. Is it religion giving you a moral pause to porn, or is it your faith? If it is your faith, I can understand and completely respect that. I have to admit that I've thought about it in the past from a faith perspective. You know, all that WWJD stuff and all. 

I think @Torninhalf should start more threads. Seems like more things can get accomplished. 😆


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I like attention for my looks and nobody here at TAM is looking at me.
> 
> But you’re right...I’m never allowed to talk about sex again, especially when men are around....tsk tsk tsk. I better go report this misstep to my husband immediately. Guess what? I’ve also private messaged with a male member of TAM. Actually, a few male members. Oh no. I better email my husband copies of everything that was said lest he starts to think I’m having an online affair now.


Here is the thing Cici. You like attention. That’s ok. You like the validation. You want people to see you as highly sexual. I’ve been on TAM a while now and never have I seen a poster so sexually explicit. You announce when you masturbate, how many time, with what toys and just recently out of the blue talked about how your butt hurt after masturbating 3 times in one day. It’s quite frankly odd. Disturbing in a way. As a woman much older than you I am not bothered by the explicit nature but your need to announce it. There is something behind it and I think you ought to find out what.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Two years of efforts with no noticable improvement so I have given up.


Wow you’re a trooper. My behind the scenes effort was maybe a few months and then when I made things clear to her my mental clock was set at 3 months.

I think a thing that maybe made her understand is when she seemed exasperated by what I was asking she started suggesting seeking outside help because, “I don’t want to get a divorce.”

To pull things back to the original thread topic I guess one of my earlier posts in here was wrong.

I did change my expectations, twice.

I never expected her to initiate and I was perfectly happy doing so when she was going along with it.

Once we became dysfunctional this was still the case but I started noticing she was not into it a lot of the time.

Once we started the repair process I wanted her to come to me and initiate sometimes. So I changed my expectations because I wanted proof that she wanted me and it seems like a logical thing. If she initiates, it’s because she wants me.

She will basically never do that. 

To be honest even the signaling she had worked out to show she was receptive has dwindled and she wants me to do everything.

So I adjusted the expectations back. 

Her availability/proximity to me at all is her signal of receptiveness. If she is not receptive she will not be there. If I do something to change that and she goes along with it, that is also receptive. The thing is, I do everything and all action comes from me. Her response to that is what shows she wants me or doesn’t; but it’s not coming from her ever. Note: this is not absolute, every once in a while she will have spontaneous desire but maybe once a month.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> I’ve also private messaged with a male member of TAM. Actually, a few male members. Oh no. I better email my husband copies of everything that was said lest he starts to think I’m having an online affair now.


I think it would be most prudent of you to openly share such communication with your husband. 

Bit of Context:
My wife admitted to an EA in 2019. I programmed computers for over 30 years (yes before the internet and through it's birth) that gives me the capacity to really verify and I did. If I found anything physical, she would have been showed the door. In order to stay even with an EA, she had to agree to never be alone with another man outside of a business context either in person or online and give up all access to social media. That or the door. She *chose* to stay.

That is how some betrayed spouses set boundaries. Maybe setting a few for yourself may be sensible, even if your husband, unlike myself would have, allows you free reign in very ill defined boundaries.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Here is the thing Cici. You like attention. That’s ok. You like the validation. You want people to see you as highly sexual. I’ve been on TAM a while now and never have I seen a poster so sexually explicit. You announce when you masturbate, how many time, with what toys and just recently out of the blue talked about how your butt hurt after masturbating 3 times in one day. It’s quite frankly odd. Disturbing in a way. As a woman much older than you I am not bothered by the explicit nature but your need to announce it. There is something behind it and I think you ought to find out what.


I’ve seen other people on TAM, usually men, talk just as “explicitly” or moreso. I’ve read plenty of threads, old and new. My comments are far from the most explicit things I’ve seen here.



Dictum Veritas said:


> I think it would be most prudent of you to openly share such communication with your husband.
> 
> Bit of Context:
> My wife admitted to an EA in 2019. I programmed computers for over 30 years (yes before the internet and through it's birth) that gives me the capacity to really verify and I did. If I found anything physical, she would have been showed the door. In order to stay even with an EA, she had to agree to never be alone with another man outside of a business context either in person or online and give up all access to social media. That or the door. She *chose* to stay.
> ...


That isn’t a rule we have. And I’ve said nothing inappropriate to any man in any pm ever. My husband can access my TAM account if he wants to. I gave him the password. I gave him the password to any current account to anything I’m currently using right now.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

I realize I’m going to get a slap on the wrist and these recent posts will probably be deleted anyway since this is turning into a thread jack, so I will bow out now. Sorry for doing this on your thread, torninhalf.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I’ve seen other people on TAM, usually men, talk just as “explicitly” or moreso. I’ve read plenty of threads, old and new. My comments are far from the most explicit things I’ve seen here.
> 
> 
> 
> That isn’t a rule we have. And I’ve said nothing inappropriate to any man in any pm ever. My husband can access my TAM account if he wants to. I gave him the password. I gave him the password to any current account to anything I’m currently using right now.


I like you have read hundreds of threads here and yes some get quite explicit. Yours however seem over the top and at times not necessary to the discussion. What was the point in announcing that your butt hurt from masturbating multiple times the other day?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I realize I’m going to get a slap on the wrist and these recent posts will probably be deleted anyway since this is turning into a thread jack, so I will bow out now. Sorry for doing this on your thread, torninhalf.


Like I said we all post things from time to time that are thread jacks. It’s what happens when dozens of people are posting about things relative to their experiences.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I like you have read hundreds of threads here and yes some get quite explicit. Yours however seem over the top and at times not necessary to the discussion. What was the point in announcing that your butt hurt from masturbating multiple times the other day?


Since the comment was deleted I can’t go back and read exactly what I said, but I believe I mentioned watching porn each time and it seemed related to whatever porn-related discussion this thread had devolved to at that point. People we discussing how often and why they watched porn. I didn’t just make a comment about masturbating out of the blue.

Edit: I suppose I could have said that without having to mention that my butt hurt because of it, but that wasn’t for attention...I’m just very unfiltered a lot of the time. I didn’t really think much of it, just said it because it was true.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> Since the comment was deleted I can’t go back and read exactly what I said, but I believe I mentioned watching porn each time and it seemed related to whatever porn-related discussion this thread had devolved to at that point. People we discussing how often and why they watched porn. I didn’t just make a comment about masturbating out of the blue.


Well…you did. You announced your butt hurt. Came back and clarified as to the hows and why. 😂


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Imagine having to be my husband and deal with me being this way in real life. If you find it annoying and unnecessary here on TAM...

How many times has he had to cover me up because I decide it might be fun to just pull up my skirt to see if anyone notices or to walk out the door naked just because the risk of getting caught is fun. Now this may actually be a problem, I don’t know. Just saying this is probably going to be seen as attention-seeking. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Well…you did. You announced your butt hurt. Came back and clarified as to the hows and why. 😂


I clarified because multiple people asked. I didn’t just think to myself “I better go write a more detailed post about my anal pain just for the heck of it.” I thought they might be under the impression that I was riding a giant dildo anally and felt the need to clarify.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

And I know that nobody, not one single person here on TAM cares about why my butt hurts or where I’m sticking dildos, believe me. I do not think I’m that alluring or important.

I’m also really horny. When I get really horny and there’s a conversation about sex going on I tend to be more unfiltered than normal. It’s not because I’m looking for sexual fulfillment from the conversation or those I’m talking to, it’s just that horniness makes me very uninhibited, I’ve noticed. Yeah even my husband gets annoyed with me sometimes because I become like a 15 year old boy. 

And I said I was bowing out 🤣


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

I personally think the correct amount of sex for a couple is exactly the amount that keeps them wanting just a little bit more. It's not just a question of sating desires, but also creating some... suspense... if you will. I have to say, myself and my wife have seemed to have found that balance where the flirts and kisses builds to the act being highly anticipated.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Dictum Veritas said:


> I personally think the correct amount of sex for a couple is exactly the amount that keeps them wanting just a little bit more. It's not just a question of sating desires, but also creating some... suspense... if you will. I have to say, myself and my wife have seemed to have found that balance where the flirts and kisses builds to the act being highly anticipated.


I agree with this. The suspense is paramount. 🔥


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici, you and your husband are…. Unique. I do think it is good that he has complete access to anything you’ve written on here to help ease his mind if he chooses it. I personally cannot put myself in the shoes of a BS who would read unfiltered sex talk from a WS. It wouldn’t be fair for me to comment as to whether it would trigger me or not - but I can certainly understand if someone would.
Your husband’s uncanny ability to forgive, your ability to NOT be found out but to actually come clean on your own and the fact that you are putting in a massive effort to reconcile makes me inclined to not be bothered by your explicit comments. But again, that is just me. I try to understand everyone’s perspective - even those here that post that “porn is bad, end of story. Anyone who watches porn will go to hell”. Even if I vehemently disagree, I attempt to see their perspective.

I think it is good to see you post on other threads outside of coping with infidelity. You and your husband are going for the R. It’s obviously going to take a lot of effort and dealing with a lot of pre-A issues. Might as well get help in the other areas of TAM.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I agree with this. The suspense is paramount. 🔥


ugh. Sometimes I really wish I would grow up past being a 15 year old boy.

I get folks that like the suspense. The build up.

not this 15 year old mind stuck in a 41 year old body.

I want it. I want it now. I’m ready now. The build up I need? Yeah, that’s my wife coming out to my work bench in the garage saying “hey, wanna do it?”

the other thing that porn takes care of is prevention.

prevention of me turning into a one pump chump. Call me crazy, but my I do like lasting longer than 30 seconds. I don’t know, I think my wife does too.

if I were to go 3 days without (and no self release), it would pretty much be……. 1,2, Aaaaaaaaaaand I’m done.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> ugh. Sometimes I really wish I would grow up past being a 15 year old boy.
> 
> I get folks that like the suspense. The build up.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with that either. Sometimes being the aggressor and taking advantage of the moment is also needed.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Cici, you and your husband are…. Unique. I do think it is good that he has complete access to anything you’ve written on here to help ease his mind if he chooses it. I personally cannot put myself in the shoes of a BS who would read unfiltered sex talk from a WS. It wouldn’t be fair for me to comment as to whether it would trigger me or not - but I can certainly understand if someone would.
> Your husband’s uncanny ability to forgive, your ability to NOT be found out but to actually come clean on your own and the fact that you are putting in a massive effort to reconcile makes me inclined to not be bothered by your explicit comments. But again, that is just me. I try to understand everyone’s perspective - even those here that post that “porn is bad, end of story. Anyone who watches porn will go to hell”. Even if I vehemently disagree, I attempt to see their perspective.
> 
> I think it is good to see you post on other threads outside of coping with infidelity. You and your husband are going for the R. It’s obviously going to take a lot of effort and dealing with a lot of pre-A issues. Might as well get help in the other areas of TAM.


My husband doesn’t expect me to stop interacting with people of the opposite sex or to even stop flirting with people all together. He’s not going to spy on me all the time either. He realizes if he requires that of me he’ll be expected to do the same and he doesn’t want to have to give up his female friends. Maybe we should have an open marriage. Maybe I need to take that to my thread and stop all discussion on this one.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> if I were to go 3 days without (and no self release), it would pretty much be……. 1,2, Aaaaaaaaaaand I’m done


300mg St. John’s Wort 3x a day. You’re welcome.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I honestly believe that there are those who will never be content no matter how good their life. Contentment is something that is so important.


I’m not going to lie. You pegged me perfectly. I wish....seriously wish I could be a content person. That would make things incredibly easier.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

@LATERILUS79, I can't write much now, but I appreciate your response and want to chew over your questions a bit before responding. I'll try to post more later today or tomorrow.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> Thank you for the more detailed info. Yes, the average man getting sex 1 time a week or less is simply not like this at all. Some may be. Some men are probably putting in a lot of effort and still getting nothing, but I think that’s a very small “some.”


It probably happens especially if the woman has lost all attraction and basically fallen out of love with her husband.

The kind of person I am I don’t do anything poorly or part way. If I’m doing it at all my standard is high and I do what I need to do to try and meet my own standard.

So if I want to fix my relationship I go 💯 on it “no ragrets” (sic) like the tattoo meme. That way if it doesn’t work out in my favor I can move on more easily knowing what I did to try and fix it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I have to stay here through my maternity leave but I have thought about searching for another job immediately afterward. Sometimes it’s just the devil you know though. I have it pretty good at my job I’m some aspects and it may be hard to give it up for those reasons. My husband told me to quit my job and decide if I even wanted to go back to work once the babies are born. But I’m not really housewife material here.


Who will raise your children while you are at work?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> My husband told me to quit my job and decide if I even wanted to go back to work once the babies are born. But I’m not really housewife material here.


I have been trying to get my wife to quit or go on leave for some amount of time to just chill out. She won’t do it.

If she was a high roller mommy I would have been at the gym all day while she slaved away over a hot computer.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Who will raise your children while you are at work?


I’m sorry, I posted that in the wrong thread. Truly was just an accident. It was supposed to be posted in my thread. I will report and asked the mods to delete. I was responding to ccpowerslave’s comment in my thread and I’m not sure how it got switched to me responding to a totally unrelated comment of his over here. My brain wasn’t working.

They’ll have to go to daycare or I suppose we will need to hire a nanny. My husband isn’t very hot on the daycare idea but I still have my spots on the wait list.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> See, you say sex isn’t an obligation but a catch of her getting a massage is that you both have to be naked so it’s kind of implied that sex is the direction you’d like it to go in. I’m sure massages, especially naked ones, go in this direction for many couples. Which is fine, especially if both partners seem to enjoy when a massage leads in that direction. For me, I like a good massage just as much as sex, sometimes even more. I DO NOT want it to lead to sex. I do not want to do any physical activity after a good massage. I want to relax and sleep. I don’t want to be bothered by anybody. I stopped asking for massages because I was so tired of feeling obligated to have sex afterwards that it totally took the pleasure of the massage away. I don’t get turned on by a massage but maybe that’s because I have to beg and plead for it and so it’s like a duty massage where I’m expected to reward the half assed effort with sex.


Cici, have sex immediately before the massage. That way, there's no catch. No owing of anything later. 

Yes, you are "paying" up front, but it can be seen as a compromise. Husband is taken care of and you get to sleep post massage.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> I’m sorry, I posted that in the wrong thread. Truly was just an accident. It was supposed to be posted in my thread. I will report and asked the mods to delete.
> 
> They’ll have to go to daycare or I suppose we will need to hire a nanny. My husband isn’t very hot in the daycare idea but I still have my spots on the wait list.


No worries I posted ther as well. 😂 I just can’t imagine having someone else raise my kids.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I have been trying to get my wife to quit or go on leave for some amount of time to just chill out. She won’t do it.
> 
> If she was a high roller mommy I would have been at the gym all day while she slaved away over a hot computer.


If I could quit my job and just do whatever I wanted all day then of course I’d agree to that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Yes, you are "paying" up front...


You monster! 😱


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> If I could quit my job and just do whatever I wanted all day then of course I’d agree to that.


That was the deal I offered. Rejected again... forever a worker bee 🐝


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> That was the deal I offered. Rejected again... forever a worker bee 🐝


She’s crazy. I’d love to quit my job and just be able to live the life of leisure.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> No worries I posted ther as well. 😂 I just can’t imagine having someone else raise my kids.


Fair point, TIH, but I do have my 1 data point to share. My wife and I have our twin boy and girl. That's it. We've always both worked. Our babies went to daycare at 4 months old. Now, we live in the Midwest and cities here tend to be more suburban. Every day care we used was a local mom that we were friends with. Felt more personal, I guess. My kids are now 9. We switched daycares a few different times. My kids can't remember the names of 2 of them nor their houses. I feel they didn't really pick up much from those places, so I don't think they Really raised my kids. One of the daycares we used we are still friends with the mom and our kids are still friends with hers. I guess it just comes down to spending all of our time with the kids the moment the work day is over. 

I can at least say all of their good habits and their bad habits come from my wife and I. 😄


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Fair point, TIH, but I do have my 1 data point to share. My wife and I have our twin boy and girl. That's it. We've always both worked. Our babies went to daycare at 4 months old. Now, we live in the Midwest and cities here tend to be more suburban. Every day care we used was a local mom that we were friends with. Felt more personal, I guess. My kids are now 9. We switched daycares a few different times. My kids can't remember the names of 2 of them nor their houses. I feel they didn't really pick up much from those places, so I don't think they Really raised my kids. One of the daycares we used we are still friends with the mom and our kids are still friends with hers. I guess it just comes down to spending all of our time with the kids the moment the work day is over.
> 
> I can at least say all of their good habits and their bad habits come from my wife and I. 😄


Fair point Laterilus. Many, many people need to use day care but to say that someone who takes care of your children 45 to 50 hours a week don’t raise your children is not being honest. My neighbor runs a day care as you describe. Children are dropped off around 730 and picked up around 530. That’s 10 hours a day. Children go to sleep by 8? That’s 3 hours maybe that parents have them 5 days a week? It’s a disservice to childcare workers to dismiss them in such a manner.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Fair point Laterilus. Many, many people need to use day care but to say that someone who takes care of your children 45 to 50 hours a week don’t raise your children is not being honest. My neighbor runs a day care as you describe. Children are dropped off around 730 and picked up around 530. That’s 10 hours a day. Children go to sleep by 8? That’s 3 hours maybe that parents have them 5 days a week? It’s a disservice to childcare workers to dismiss them in such a manner.


Yeah, I got nothing for this. 😂

I guess it didn’t bother me at the time. Kids seemed alright.

to tell you the truth, I’m much more worried now about what they learn in school over the years they were in daycare.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> You are a good person, TwoDecades.
> 
> Thank you so much for this post. Seriously, much appreciated. It takes a lot of empathy and introspection to look at someone else's perspective whom you disagree with.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the compliment. I really don't deserve it, though. I have my issues, like anyone else.

I think your wife is very fortunate that you try to connect with her often. Many people just give up on that after they've been married for a long time, especially, from what I've observed, men. In a perfect world (speaking for me only), no husbands would feel the need to turn to porn on a regular basis. But, I realize we don't live in a perfect world. Spouses can be completely ignorant of one other's needs and/or selfish, or a combination thereof. And you are correct, the alternatives left to the unmet spouse's needs are limited in the area of sex. Admittedly, research indicates a lot of men, including Christian men, use or have used digital porn at least occasionally, if not often.

You mentioned growing up in a religious community that taught you that you would go to hell for masturbation. That's sad. I don't hold any equivalent theology. I don't know for sure what Catholic doctrine says, as I'm not Catholic. I have a lot of respect for devout Catholics and can find common ground with many. My theological beliefs don't hold that a person goes to hell for *_* sin once they are redeemed, however. Masturbation is a question mark issue to me. I can see both sides of it and really don't know where I land, especially when it comes to teenage boys. I would tend to leave that up to personal conviction.

I looked up the Zobrist story. Made me nauseous, so I didn't read very far. Unlike you, I grew up in an essentially agnostic/atheist family and community. I had some exposure to Christianity through extended family and a couple of friends growing up, but it wasn't the norm. I remember one church I occasionally attended had their pastor step down because he also was having an affair with a married woman he "counseled." (I don't believe pastors should be counselors, anyway, because they generally aren't trained properly if at all.) There are unfortunately a lot of stories like that, but there is a lot of infidelity happening in general. This past year a well-known apologist that I greatly respected was proven to be a sexual predator (of women). It really upset me. As in, it made me sift back through what I believe and reaffirm. Immorality among leaders and human suffering--especially among vulnerable people--are two of the biggest areas I struggle with my faith. I don't have any perfect answers.

That said, I've also seen enough examples of good leaders to convince me not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. God uses broken, imperfect people, including me (I hope, maybe). I don't reject the message because the messenger fell short or even imploded. When I finally read through the entire bible (vs. parts here and there), I began to see various things more clearly, and in context. Which is huge. I could post verses to defend my positions, but it's really much bigger than that. So in that way, and via prayer, my morals are fused to my religious beliefs. I do think people can have good morals outside of religion. And there are some morals from some religions outside of mine that I can appreciate.

I realize that the term "Christian" means different things to different people, too, and while some people say we're a Christian nation, I don't believe that to be true anymore. Thus, I don't expect people are going to agree with me. And decent people can disagree. And still get along.

The WWJD: I mostly get what people were trying to do there. I think the main problem with it was that it focused on external behavior, but behavior flows from thought, and knowing how Jesus would think isn't that simple for a human mind. It resulted in a lot of knee-jerk reactions, even if they were well-meaning. 

For the record, I'm not trying to debate or expecting to convince anyone of my position on pornography or religion or the existence of God. Not my place and a definite thread jack. When I first mentioned the topic, I was sharing my opinion based on TIH's earlier post, while trying to be honest about where my position comes from. I mentioned behavioral health, as well, as I've begun a (slow) career shift from the education field to mental health. Another reason I find the insight from the male perspective very helpful. In addition, I tend to read and respond to posts about infidelity, as my life has been affected by it and I've spent a couple of years studying it from an academic perspective. 

My opinion of a person (man or woman) doesn't boil down to whether or not he or she uses pornography. I don't read posts and think, "If only LATERILUS79 didn't look at porn, he'd be a good guy." I don't think like that. (And even if I did, you don't answer to me.) I'm for more transparency, not less; I actually wish more Christian men and women felt like they could be honest about their sexual concerns.



LATERILUS79 said:


> not this 15 year old mind stuck in a 41 year old body.
> 
> I want it. I want it now. I’m ready now. The build up I need? Yeah, that’s my wife coming out to my work bench in the garage saying “hey, wanna do it?”


Lol, well, then I guess I am female version of that. I am a little afraid that it'll change in another decade. The physical release is reason enough, but I would miss the closeness that the increased physical activity has brought us, if we were both to end up being lower drive down the road. I'm hoping I'll still be doing the stud finder joke on him when we're in our 80s, and if we're lucky we'll be feeling each other up at the nursing home. 

This really is my last post on this topic, TIH, if you read this. I promise.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> In a perfect world (speaking for me only), no husbands would feel the need to turn to porn on a regular basis.


Testify!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Testify!


Agreed! No one would result to porn if they were happy with their partner. Male or female.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Agreed! No one would result to porn if they were happy with their partner. Male or female.


Well, that's not true.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Agreed! No one would result to porn if they were happy with their partner. Male or female.


I don't think this is true for everyone. I feel satisfied with my sex life, usually. Most of the time I can have sex on a daily basis if I want it. Sometimes I would rather masturbate than have sex. It has nothing to do with being disatisfied with my husband, but sometimes I just want the experience of getting myself off rather than having sex - they're different types of experiences and orgasms for me. I don't watch porn every time I masturbate, but I frequently do watch it. In these instances, I'm not resorting to porn and masturbation because I have to, but because I just feel like doing it. At the risk of being accused of attention seeking again, I'll add that my husband and I are both the type who frequently masturbate one or more times a day and then have actual sex with each other once a day and for some reason this is what we like to do. A few weeks ago it was revealed we'd both masturbated 3 times in one day and then finally got around to having sex with each other sometime that evening. We had great fun telling each other exactly what we were thinking about when we were getting ourselves off and showed each other what we'd been watching. I don't know, this is enjoyable to us and neither of us feels unsatisfied.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Well, that's not true.


OMG, Livvie and I have agreed on something for once!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Well, that's not true.


Why not?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> I don't think this is true for everyone. I feel satisfied with my sex life, usually. Most of the time I can have sex on a daily basis if I want it. Sometimes I would rather masturbate than have sex. It has nothing to do with being disatisfied with my husband, but sometimes I just want the experience of getting myself off rather than having sex - they're different types of experiences and orgasms for me. I don't watch porn every time I masturbate, but I frequently do watch it. In these instances, I'm not resorting to porn and masturbation because I have to, but because I just feel like doing it. At the risk of being accused of attention seeking again, I'll add that my husband and I are both the type who frequently masturbate one or more times a day and then have actual sex with each other once a day and for some reason this is what we like to do. A few weeks ago it was revealed we'd both masturbated 3 times in one day and then finally got around to having sex with each other sometime that evening. We had great fun telling each other exactly what we were thinking about when we were getting ourselves off and showed each other what we'd been watching. I don't know, this is enjoyable to us and neither of us feels unsatisfied.


I think it works for you as both you and your husband are into it. But if he or you weren't into it and the other one was, thats when it appears to be a problem.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> OMG, Livvie and I have agreed on something for once!


So we have two women in favor of porn! Alright!!!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So we have two women in favor of porn! Alright!!!


Wtf. I didn't say I was in favor of porn. So _don't say I did_.

I said, "that's not true".

You don't speak for every person and every couple. I'm sure there are couples, and individuals, in marriages and relationships who do watch porn who are also extremely happy in their sexual relationships.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

first you have to split porn into the many different types , any thing to do with rape type is out , any thing to do with underage or even the image of underage is out , i am not into porn I am no saint nore is my wife i would take a romantic film with a few good sex seances over a porn film any day , 
MY WIFE IS MY PORN STAR seeing her in a sexy dress or in a string does more for me than any film my wife does not understand what i see in her in a g string she likes her legs likes her body but can't understand why or what is so great about her but in a string or thong she thinks she would need to have a more rounded bumb for that


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> I don't think this is true for everyone. I feel satisfied with my sex life, usually. Most of the time I can have sex on a daily basis if I want it. Sometimes I would rather masturbate than have sex. It has nothing to do with being disatisfied with my husband, but sometimes I just want the experience of getting myself off rather than having sex - they're different types of experiences and orgasms for me. I don't watch porn every time I masturbate, but I frequently do watch it. In these instances, I'm not resorting to porn and masturbation because I have to, but because I just feel like doing it. At the risk of being accused of attention seeking again, I'll add that my husband and I are both the type who frequently masturbate one or more times a day and then have actual sex with each other once a day and for some reason this is what we like to do. A few weeks ago it was revealed we'd both masturbated 3 times in one day and then finally got around to having sex with each other sometime that evening. We had great fun telling each other exactly what we were thinking about when we were getting ourselves off and showed each other what we'd been watching. I don't know, this is enjoyable to us and neither of us feels unsatisfied.


I think cici is correct. I'm extremely satisfied in my current sex life with my wife and we both view porn and we both show each other what we've been looking at. We've also both gotten ourselves off and had sex in the same day. 

I don't see anything wrong with this. I enjoy reading other perspectives. I can see others points of view. What ends the conversation for me is a black and white view with no gray area.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I think cici is correct. I'm extremely satisfied in my current sex life with my wife and we both view porn and we both show each other what we've been looking at. We've also both gotten ourselves off and had sex in the same day.
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with this. I enjoy reading other perspectives. I can see others points of view. What ends the conversation for me is a black and white view with no gray area.


Later

I agree

My reply to CC and TwoDecades was based on the idea that I beleive she was referring to that a husband turns to porn as opposed to his wife. I agree with you and Cici that sure if both partners are into it, why not?! I would LOVE if my wife wanted to watch porn with me like yours does or Cici's hubby does! Hell that would make my year!

But I think what Two meant and what I agreed with is the idea that if people (OK mainly guys) are not happy with their sexual relationship they turn to porn and it goes downhill from there. Just my opinion of course.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

if porn becomes an everyday thing and your looking at it for long times and start trying to chat with porn stars on cam you have gone over the edge and that is not good , if you can not look at porn and think wow this is just not right or if you think the extra long **** or the extra round tits that seem to be ten times too big for the body are the norm your wrong 
I can look the odd time with my wife , it is just a mix of titillation and maybe a form of ed , not the best but with the lack of good information and the lack of open minded debate it has a place sadly we can't talk open to others about sex and end up going to porn sites , 

My WIFE and I have went to a type club where you see people dance in their underwear or topless or with a towel wrapped around them where they have steam rooms and both sexes relaxing together , and back rooms where people have sex in view of others and we have watched them , I am ok with my body and happy that my wife can get past her complex , 
you get to see every type from super hot to not at all and you see some strange guys playing with them self and looking sad types or sick 
but the strange thing is you feel safe no one as much as puts a hand out of place or no one even makes any form of indecent or pushes themselves on you or the person your with you are in no way under pressure to partake in what is going on
i have and many women feel in more danger on public transport


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Don't forget it's a modern luxury to talk about happiness and marriage in the same sentence. For most of history marriage has been about wealth, power, and politics.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Why not?





Livvie said:


> You don't speak for every person and every couple. I'm sure there are couples, and individuals, in marriages and relationships who do watch porn who are also extremely happy in their sexual relationships.


Yep!

My wife and I are extremely happy with our splendid sexual relationship, and we like pornography as well. To the point that we even have a small following on a fetish website, of people who enjoy seeing our own freely posted homemade porn.

For us looking at pornography is simply a form of entertainment, nothing more or less. And it certainly isn't a substitute for sexual congress within our sexual relationship.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

we all have different amounts of free time savable to us for entertainment, and we have different pirouette in life , we have 2 children and don't have time for looking at porn relay , if we had more time for the two of us we might the odd time look at a little and not for long i could not see myself sitting down looking at porn for more than 20 /30 min once in a month if we had no one around , but I think it is sad when young kids say say they have seen porn and often see porn in the home some even with their parents around and others can have that much freedom to look at porn when mother or daddy are not around and I would add into this the video games that are unfit for a underage kids


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

frenchpaddy said:


> we have 2 children and don't have time for looking at porn relay , if we had more time for the two of us we might the odd time look at a little and not for long


I've got three children, one from my first marriage with the others from my second (current marriage), who all except for one are now adults, with the youngest weeks away from becoming an adult as well. My wife has a successful full-time, government management career. While mine has through the last couple of years, devolved to a part-time activity due to other obligations. We are also travelled, have led interesting lives and been involved in important things and have experienced many significant life changing events.

We also read exhaustively, participate in different forums. Watch movies, sometimes go to the theatre and concerts (Covid-19 excepting). Sometimes make our own pornography for our own interest and for showing off (we have professional studio lighting amongst other pro kit). Plus we also are caring for one of our children, with a severe medical condition that may kill them.

Yet we still make time to share sex at a frequency of usually 6x a week, though we will often do 8-9x a week, with 4x a week being the minimum (excepting medical reasons or some time apart through work). Plus sometimes look at pornography and less often we sometimes find time for sleep.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

It's also worth mentioning that most porn is rubbish. Plus when it comes to movies, a lot of it is best viewed with the sound off, because uggghh.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Wow you’re a trooper. My behind the scenes effort was maybe a few months and then when I made things clear to her my mental clock was set at 3 months.


I tried for years, then I gave up because I wanted to stay for the children. No way another man was going to raise them. So, sex was on my wife's terms. Scheduled. She would tell me when. Then I found out she was doing the same as me: give me sex not to split up the family.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

I think that some people, men and women both, seem to have an attitude of entitlement to sex on command just because they are married or otherwise involved with another person but reality does not work that way. Just because one partner wants sex every day doesn't mean the other person is obligated in any way to give that to them. Pretty sure that isn't in the traditional marriage vows. 

When we are single, we all work hard to try and get laid or find a partner. Ladies working out and staying fit, men chasing and doing what we do. Suddenly, it seems like once people have been involved for a time, they drop all of that. Everyone gaining weight, getting lazy, don't seduce, nothing. They just expect to get laid. I think it would help if everyone put in at least some of the effort they put in at the beginning. Instead of expected your partner to have sex with you, make them want to do it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> You announce when you masturbate, how many time, with what toys and just recently out of the blue talked about how your butt hurt after masturbating 3 times in one day. It’s quite frankly odd. Disturbing in a way.


I don't mind. I'm not saying this in a creepy way...  I find it refreshing that people can talk about intimate details here. It gives it a different perspective and a better understanding of the poster's personality.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Then I found out she was doing the same as me: give me sex not to split up the family.


Well if you both were so intent on not splitting up the family, I don't see why either of you couldn't have outsourced sex with others.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Well if you both were so intent on not splitting up the family, I don't see why either of you couldn't have outsourced sex with others.


We didn't know we wanted the same thing. And I didn't want sex with another woman and I believe my wife was happy not have sex with anybody at all. I told her I only wanted her and that I was ready for divorce. Then she started being more "available". That was when - without telling me - she decided she didn't want to split the family. I was happier and I realised I didn't want to split the family either. Mind you, sex was once a month, sometimes twice, but it helped keeping the connection alive.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

We were asked recently by younger friends whether our sex life has dropped off as we get older and we had to admit it had, but not for the reasons they thought.

Don’t know if anyone else has this problem but our increasing age is having an impact on our sex life. Not that we have less sex but rather that it is still very passionate and tends to wipe us out for the rest of the day. As a result, we have to plan more and will desist if, for example, we have a long journey or have social engagements that require us not to fall asleep after half an hour. Still, the days when there are no other demands are great ones.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> We didn't know we wanted the same thing. And I didn't want sex with another woman and I believe my wife was happy not have sex with anybody at all. I told her I only wanted her and that I was ready for divorce. Then she started being more "available". That was when - without telling me - she decided she didn't want to split the family. I was happier and I realised I didn't want to split the family either. Mind you, sex was once a month, sometimes twice, but it helped keeping the connection alive.


I'm trying to relate to any situation of having, really being regulated to have sex no more than once or twice a month barring medical reasons. Or that someone would think they could regulate me.

Don't think I can.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Hopefully there are some important lessons learned from life and experience...

I can tell you that when your partner and you are on the same page when it comes to sex, then everything is great, comfortable and spontaneous....I'll be honest, if a woman ever decided that she had to "schedule" sex for me, then i'd tell her to throw away her calendar and I'll figure out what works best for me...I wouldn't ever participate in that, because deep down how could anyone not feel like the person is only complying to get you off their back??......no thanks on that deal...But eh, if it works for others, then more power to you...But that's not what sex is supposed to be....imo...You would have a better experience with a prostitute...in both cases, it's transactional, at least with a prostitute you have some control over what/who you do and when....Bear in mind, I am not advocating prostitution, just that the transactional aspect is particularly similar..
'
I'll be honest, while there have been times where it was me that didn't want to, for a variety of reasons, primarily because if there are other issues, then sex is the first to go(for me, anyway)...having said that I know guys that can't stand their wives and their marriages suck, yet have sex with them, almost as something that "she better do, because she aint worth anything else".....Wow....hard to believe people like that are out there, but they are...I know a few....lol...

Just out of curiosity, (and this question is for the women)...Guys feel free to chime in, if you really have a handle on it, but my guess is a lot of women lie to guys about the real reasons, so maybe you think you know why, but you don't ...

I don't know that I can say that I have experienced the whole "I wanted it, but she didn't "scenario that a lot of guys talk about...That doesn't make me anything special,. but perhaps because I was with HD women, or maybe it was because I pulled back before they did, or maybe just luck of the draw, but out of sheer curiosity, what were the events that led to you pulling sex off the table with your husband/bf? It seems so common, I have often had my own theories, but without the level of experience myself, and never having to have to deal with it, I just don't know.. I often wonder if my theory is correct, because of the guys I know that complain of this, there seems to be some commonality..


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> I'm trying to relate to any situation of having, really being regulated to have sex no more than once or twice a month barring medical reasons. Or that someone would think they could regulate me.
> 
> Don't think I can.


Well, it was my decision to stay. It was that or divorce. As I said before, I didn't want another man to raise my children. Just the thought of that made me shiver. I guess we compromised, on her terms. She had accepted divorce as an option, so it was down to me. I regret it? No. Was it painful? Yes, very much. Only recently I found out that her minor "mental issues" were, in reality, massive and she hid it from me. Since she always refused therapy, whatever I did wouldn't have changed anything.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> if a woman ever decided that she had to "schedule" sex for me, then i'd tell her to throw away her calendar and I'll figure out what works best for me...I wouldn't ever participate in that, because deep down how could anyone not feel like the person is only complying to get you off their back??



See above. I think my wife thought she would please me in a way and she was giving me what she could. And keeping the family together. I only blame her for hiding the real extent of her mental illness. That said, part of her mental issue is to keep the issues very private. It's a bit of a long story. My only regret is not being mature enough to deal with it when I had to.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Agreed! No one would result to porn if they were happy with their partner. Male or female.


This is simply not true. There are men who get sex with their partner, have lots of variation and opportunities and still turn to porn. We've seen it here on this site.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> Hopefully there are some important lessons learned from life and experience...
> 
> I can tell you that when your partner and you are on the same page when it comes to sex, then everything is great, comfortable and spontaneous....I'll be honest, if a woman ever decided that she had to "schedule" sex for me, then i'd tell her to throw away her calendar and I'll figure out what works best for me...I wouldn't ever participate in that, because deep down how could anyone not feel like the person is only complying to get you off their back??......no thanks on that deal...But eh, if it works for others, then more power to you...But that's not what sex is supposed to be....imo...You would have a better experience with a prostitute...in both cases, it's transactional, at least with a prostitute you have some control over what/who you do and when....Bear in mind, I am not advocating prostitution, just that the transactional aspect is particularly similar..
> '
> ...


That's interesting. I always thought it was the HD partner who would suggest scheduling. When I complained to my XH about lack of sex he said we should schedule it. I explained I can't get all excited about someone wanting something with me because they got an alert on their phone. Maybe in retrospect it was a mistake. Because he just didn't care enough to be available, or address his mechanical issues with a doctor. It was too much of a bother. He just found a few someone elses. Ironically I'm functionally celibate now, because I just can't put myself in that position again of being with someone else. But I get why if a spouse was abusive you wouldn't want to be with them sexually. Otherwise why would anyone stay married to someone you don't want a sexual relationship with? I don't get it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Yeah, I got nothing for this. 😂
> 
> I guess it didn’t bother me at the time. Kids seemed alright.
> 
> to tell you the truth, I’m much more worried now about what they learn in school over the years they were in daycare.


As you should be. 😂 I understand many family’s have to have 2 incomes. I just think if one can afford to stay home to raise the children they should. The first year especially. It’s bonding and full of firsts one can never get back.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


Honestly, I have read plenty of threads from both genders complaining about the sex with their spouse. Several female threads about exiting because the old man can't get it up anymore and wont do anything about it. Lot of men who complain about their misery but won't exit because of other considerations. So what is going on is that with the internet, people have a wider anonymous audience to vent to. 

Regarding the porn question, I suspect it certainly changes how porn consumers view the topic. Maybe it is human nature to emulate how other humans are seen behaving. Hollywood has been more subtly doing this since motion pictures were invented. Just like all advertising works to change the behavior of the target audience in favor of the item being sold. Remember how "manly" the marlboro man was? What is "real" is irrelevant.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Enigma32 said:


> When we are single, we all work hard to try and get laid or find a partner. Ladies working out and staying fit, men chasing and doing what we do. Suddenly, it seems like once people have been involved for a time, they drop all of that. Everyone gaining weight, getting lazy, don't seduce, nothing. They just expect to get laid. I think it would help if everyone put in at least some of the effort they put in at the beginning. Instead of expected your partner to have sex with you, make them want to do it.


This is the idea behind a lot of the dead bedroom repair strategies.

In my case I went even further than that by asking my wife what her aversions were and what was stopping her. When she had a non reason I had to pry the actual reason out of her. She has real “sexual brakes” and for her they’re important. She had hinted at them all along but when I got them out there in black and white I was a bit surprised.

So part of my strategy was to mitigate or eliminate those brakes as a factor. Depending on what those are it could be very different. For my wife they’re largely mechanical which is fairly easy. 

Something like, “I don’t like my body.” would be much more difficult and it seems to be very common including women who (in my opinion) look great.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Something like, “I don’t like my body.” would be much more difficult and it seems to be very common including women who (in my opinion) look great.


Body image issues are probably the worst. No way for a man to fix it, regardless of what he says o what compliments he makes. Again, success stories usually involve two people with no major hang-ups, mentally or physically. History of abuse, mental issues, body image issues, co-dependency issues... very hard to fix.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Body image issues are probably the worst. No way for a man to fix it, regardless of what he says o what compliments he makes. Again, success stories usually involve two people with no major hang-ups, mentally or physically. History of abuse, mental issues, body image issues, co-dependency issues... very hard to fix.


Yeah. Out of the box my wife came with no body issues, in fact it was almost shocking to me. I have way more hang ups in that area.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

A lot of women struggle with body image issues more and more as we age and I also think porn exacerbates that, depending on what a guy is looking at. Not that you can't struggle with body image when you're younger....you can....but you still have some youth to offset it.

If you're unhappy with your body as you get older then in our minds we're both old and fat and it's hard to feel sexual this way.

While I think I look pretty good at 47 I'm not under any impression that I look like I'm 25, and I can at least feel good about my endurance athlete body. 

I'm still quite sexual but I don't think this would be the case if I was out of shape. And if I was out of shape and my guy was looking at porn with in shape women I think I'd pretty much have zero desire.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> I tried for years, then I gave up because I wanted to stay for the children. No way another man was going to raise them. So, sex was on my wife's terms. Scheduled. She would tell me when. Then I found out she was doing the same as me: give me sex not to split up the family.


I think it's interesting that you assumed your wife would be able to find another man to marry her, and that's the major reason you stayed in your unsatisfying marriage.

Do you believe the men would have been lining up to marry a woman with kids, who had mental issues, and didn't like sex? I'm NOT being facetious here, I'm asking an honest question.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One thing we haven’t discussed in this thread yet (shocking) with respect to men’s expectations and it’s a minor detour I promise... Spicy pics/nudes.

If I had my own porn/nudes/etc... with my wife I think I would prefer it but I can’t say because I have never done it and probably won’t. 

Images have a way of leaking out and the juice isn’t worth the squeeze for me even if my wife was willing to do it. Back along the earlier discussion of if you can have sex when you want to, do you look at porn? I would not. I largely want to go when I first wake up and then before bed. When I had sex at those times every day I never looked at porn.

So even if I have wife porn, I always want the real thing over that.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I think it's interesting that you assumed your wife would be able to find another man to marry her, and that's the major reason you stayed in your unsatisfying marriage.
> 
> Do you believe the men would have been lining up to marry a woman with kids, who had mental issues, and didn't like sex? I'm NOT being facetious here, I'm asking an honest question.


Well, my wife is very attractive, so I don't think she would have had any problems attracting other men. A new relationship is a new relationship. Problems come at a later stage IMO. First phase is the honeymoon phase. I'm pretty sure she would have found someone else. Keeping him? Not sure. Still, I didn't want to risk it.

Lots of men don't mind entering in a relationship with a woman with kids. And my wife does like sex. She always enjoyed it. It became a problem because of her mental issues and my lack of empathy/immaturity. It became the elephant in the room. But you are probably right. It was me not wanting to risk it.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> One thing we haven’t discussed in this thread yet (shocking) with respect to men’s expectations and it’s a minor detour I promise... Spicy pics/nudes.
> 
> If I had my own porn/nudes/etc... with my wife I think I would prefer it but I can’t say because I have never done it and probably won’t.
> 
> ...


I discovered my wife was into spicy pics by telling her I'd love to take some photos of her in a party dress. She was shy but willing.

Then I asked re lingerie, and again shy but willing. 

Turns out she loves them. I enjoy taking these pictures and immediately sharing the best ones with her, and that always leads to sex. She knows I will only keep the few really good pictures and delete the rest. We do this maybe twice a year.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Quad73 said:


> I discovered my wife was into spicy pics by telling her I'd love to take some photos of her in a party dress. She was shy but willing.
> 
> Then I asked re lingerie, and again shy but willing.
> 
> Turns out she loves them. I enjoy taking these pictures and immediately sharing the best ones with her, and that always leads to sex. She knows I will only keep the few really good pictures and delete the rest. We do this maybe twice a year.


Yeah we have lots of old devices and such which I can take off wireless and don’t have a SIM card and I have thought about asking her.

I think mainly I’ve been interested in the cameras to use as kind of a mirror. So I think I’d be inclined to try a mirror first. While I was running yesterday I was thinking about where and how we could stick a mirror into the bedroom.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> See above. I think my wife thought she would please me in a way and she was giving me what she could. And keeping the family together. I only blame her for hiding the real extent of her mental illness. That said, part of her mental issue is to keep the issues very private. It's a bit of a long story. My only regret is not being mature enough to deal with it when I had to.


Maturity, by design, is always late in coming.
Mine arrived when I lost stature, at least an inch, due to aging bones.
What I lost in height I gained in awareness.


_Are Dee-_


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> One thing we haven’t discussed in this thread yet (shocking) with respect to men’s expectations and it’s a minor detour I promise... Spicy pics/nudes.
> 
> If I had my own porn/nudes/etc... with my wife I think I would prefer it but I can’t say because I have never done it and probably won’t.
> 
> ...


Back in the day, dinosaur age, my husband took some pictures of me. Polaroids. 😂 Me in some lingerie, nothing too risqué. I recently found the in a box in my attic while I was looking for an outfit I had saved from when my son was an infant. He just had his baby last week 😁. Damn I looked good. 😂 I remember being self conscious at the time but we were having some fun. In today’s day and age I would not take pictures with my phone. Everything is in the “cloud” and can be retrieved deleted or not. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah we have lots of old devices and such which I can take off wireless and don’t have a SIM card and I have thought about asking her.
> 
> I think mainly I’ve been interested in the cameras to use as kind of a mirror. So I think I’d be inclined to try a mirror first. While I was running yesterday I was thinking about where and how we could stick a mirror into the bedroom.


I've been thinking about this too. I like to see us in action, like in front of the mirror in the bathroom. My wife wants nothing to do with recording us having sex though. For one she says she has no interested in seeing herself, but the main issue is she is deathly afraid of something getting out there. I can certainly appreciate that. I haven't been able to come up with a good place to put a mirror in our bedroom, but the idea of a camera as a mirror is great. Not sure why I never thought of that. I could connect a camera to the TV without actually recording anything. Hmm, new idea for this weekend!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I've been thinking about this too.


Just be aware that capturing such things can present its own challenges.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Personal said:


> Just be aware that capturing such things can present its own challenges.
> 
> For example from experience I found it was a bit of a challenge holding a heavy professional full frame DSLR with one hand in a bathroom. Trying to get decent pictures of my wife taking my pee stream into her mouth. That said I managed it and some of the pictures turned out okay.


Almost on par with the anal pain from masturbating too much...


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> One thing we haven’t discussed in this thread yet (shocking) with respect to men’s expectations and it’s a minor detour I promise... Spicy pics/nudes.
> 
> If I had my own porn/nudes/etc... with my wife I think I would prefer it but I can’t say because I have never done it and probably won’t.
> 
> ...


I can’t speak for how men feel about spicy pics/nudes/videos of their own wives since I’m not a man. But...my husband has a treasure trove of pictures (of just me and of me and him), of short video clips, and much longer “full length” videos of us. We probably have more videos and home movies related to sex than to all other activities combined, which now sounds very awkward to admit. He may say it just to make me happy, but he says he usually prefers to watch his favorite videos of us or some of the short naughty clips I’ve sent him over regular porn. He has folders of his favorite “material” for when he needs it and he’s shown me. The picture folder is like 12 years worth of his favorite naughty pics of me. I guess if he’s really feeling 20 year old Cici or 25 year old Cici, or 2 weeks ago Cici, he can just have whichever one he wants thanks to all the pictures and videos we have.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Almost on par with the anal pain from masturbating too much...


Well look I’m back and I have stuff to say about the videos. Good morning (or whatever time of day it is where you are) everybody!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Personal said:


> Just be aware that capturing such things can present its own challenges.


😱😱😱🤯😳


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

This thread has certainly gone off the rails and has turned weird.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> This thread has certainly gone off the rails and has turned weird.


Don’t blame me. I asked a simple question. 😂😉


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

There is something especially erotic about being together and having sex while watching videos of yourselves together. It’s definitely different and, to me, far more exciting and stimulating than watching regular porn together.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cici1990 said:


> There is something especially erotic about being together and having sex while watching videos of yourselves together. It’s definitely different and, to me, far more exciting and stimulating than watching regular porn together.


We used to have a mirror...  But I think you mean you were having sex watching videos of yourselves having sex in a different occasion?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Inception level 2: Having sex watching video of yourselves watching a video of yourselves having sex.

🤔


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> Inception level 2: Having sex watching video of yourselves watching a video of yourselves having sex.
> 
> 🤔


😂


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

We never did photos or videos. In our day the pharnacy developing would have called the cops. My images are in my minds eye. I still see us in our late teens in back seat (or front seat) at drivein or parked somewhere. To me she is as beautiful now as then


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> We never did photos or videos. In our day the pharnacy developing would have called the cops. My images are in my minds eye. I still see us in our late teens in back seat (or front seat) at drivein or parked somewhere. To me she is as beautiful now as then


That is why my husband got a polaroid. 😂 Before the infidelity I was the same way. I could always conjure up thoughts of us.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> That is why my husband got a polaroid. 😂 Before the infidelity I was the same way. I could always conjure up thoughts of us.


I can remember many specific times despite all my brain damage. When I went over some of them with my wife she was surprised. She really never thinks about sex at all unless she’s having it.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> That is why my husband got a polaroid. 😂 Before the infidelity I was the same way. I could always conjure up thoughts of us.


My parents bought a Polaroid in the 90s and now the possible main reason behind that purchase just dawned on me. Eek! 

Polaroids are back “in” and you can buy the film at the store/Amazon again, FYI for those interested.


----------



## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I can remember many specific times despite all my brain damage. When I went over some of them with my wife she was surprised. She really never thinks about sex at all unless she’s having it.


Same here! My husband can remember MANY little details about the first time we had sex. I’m like “Uh, it felt really good and I can remember where we were at?”


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cici1990 said:


> My parents bought a Polaroid in the 90s and now the possible main reason behind that purchase just dawned on me. Eek!
> 
> Polaroids are back “in” and you can buy the film at the store/Amazon again, FYI for those interested.


Those and wide leg jeans! I’m a happy woman!


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> Same here! My husband can remember MANY little details about the first time we had sex. I’m like “Uh, it felt really good and I can remember where we were at?”


Yeah I went over several times to her many of which happened say 20+ years ago with little details and she was like, “Uhh.... m’kay?” If I explain it to her sometimes she will remember but many times not. I have to say even the smell I can remember in some cases.

Damn now I am getting heated up... Simmer down now!


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> We used to have a mirror...  But I think you mean you were having sex watching videos of yourselves having sex in a different occasion?


Yes, the latter is what I meant, but mirrors are fun too in a similar way. Maybe we just like watching ourselves because we’re both vain as heck, idk. Now it feels kind of weird when I say it out loud.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

To each their own. For the most part my wife and I hardly watch much porn together at all, and that includes our own home made stuff. Since for the most part, we find it is more of a distraction to watch, than a benefit when playing together.

Also on capturing our own stuff, we only do that occasionally. Since doing that is more of a distraction than a benefit when playing together as well, plus editing is also a time drain.

While individually both of us spend far more time doing everything else, versus looking at some pornography occasionally.

That said, having lots of mirrors is definitely cool.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> That is why my husband got a polaroid. 😂 Before the infidelity I was the same way. I could always conjure up thoughts of us.


Maybe a little off topic but I used to work for Ritz cameras and Walgreens photo lab back in the early 90's when people still developed their film.

If you can imagine it I've probably seen it on peoples pictures. I can't unsee these things....I would always say that this is why we had Polaroids😅


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> To each their own. For the most part my wife and I hardly watch much porn together at all, and that includes our own home made stuff. Since for the most part, we find t is more of a distraction to watch, than a benefit when playing together.
> 
> Also on capturing our own stuff, we only do that occasionally. Since doing that is more of a distraction than a benefit when playing together as well, plus editing is also a time drain.
> 
> ...


I think and hope, to be honest, that what you and your wife do is more of the norm.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe a little off topic but I used to work for Ritz cameras and Walgreens photo lab back in the early 90's when people still developed their film.
> 
> If you can imagine it I've probably seen it on peoples pictures. I can't unsee these things....I would always say that this is why we had Polaroids😅


After my Dad retired he went to work part time at Photomate. This was the very late 80’s and he said the same thing. 😂


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

My wife remembers the circumstances and what happened but not images. She always says she thinks males are more visually oriented. As most generalizations, that likely isnt true. She knows for sure this male is. She will sometimes ask, "shall I take off my shirt?" during light makeout, she knows the answer and where it will lead


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Rus47 said:


> My wife remembers the circumstances and what happened but not images. She always says she thinks males are more visually oriented. As most generalizations, that likely isnt true. She knows for sure this male is. She will sometimes ask, "shall I take off my shirt?" during light makeout, she knows the answer and where it will lead


It makes me think that perhaps if couples spent sometime talking about what they do remember…like favorite times, most intense experience, most satisfying, most romantic etc it might help eliminate the need to watch other people have sex. I guess that comes from my soft and romantic side which I don’t let out much 😂


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Best I ever got was some professional coquette pictures back in 2011. Holy f*_k balls my wife looked amazing in those. Still have the book. They are tucked in my sock drawer. I attempt to take the book out from time to time. I swear my wife has a specialized radar that senses when that book has moved. I’ll feel a swift kick to the balls and then “WHAT ARE YOU DOING! What if the children see?!” Nevermind the door to our bedroom is locked. *sigh_

to have a library of my wife and I like Cici has would be pretty stellar, but like most men, I can remember just about everything from many encounters.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> If you can imagine it I've probably seen it on peoples pictures.


Back in the day there was no way I would send any nude, erotic or pornographic shots on film to be developed by a 1 hour photo place and the like (because eek!).

Of which my wife was the first woman I took such pictures of, and I only have a handful of shots from 1996, (when she was 26) which I developed on my own. Followed by a few more in 2004 with my first personal digital camera.

Then it wasn't till 2008, when I first had my own comprehensive professional digital kit, that we started taking more erotic and pornographic shots and movies. Of which it ebbs and flows, so some years after that nothing and other years plenty more. To the point that as a ruthless editor, we only have about 200 rude pics and about a dozen rude movie clips.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Back in the day, dinosaur age, my husband took some pictures of me. Polaroids. 😂 Me in some lingerie, nothing too risqué. I recently found the in a box in my attic while I was looking for an outfit I had saved from when my son was an infant. He just had his baby last week 😁. Damn I looked good. 😂 I remember being self conscious at the time but we were having some fun. In today’s day and age I would not take pictures with my phone. Everything is in the “cloud” and can be retrieved deleted or not. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Good advice, but bad for posterity.
Some posteriors are worth capturing and made pix-elating for later times.

A shame it is that properly posed bodies are forever equated with shame.

It was that apple that_ Evie_ ate, yes, that was it. 
Umm. those nippled apples that held firm to her chest.

Such that....
Adam's apple, it danced up and down his throat seeing her charms, uncovered....so lovely they were.

So lovely they will always be in print, in lust-o-graphy.


_The Typist-_


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Phone pics and the cloud storage issue - yeah, we never do that. Non-wireless dedicated digital camera only. The SD card never leaves the house.

As for mirrors, a floor standing mirror with built-in adjustable swivel angle works. My wife was even more taken by the mirror than the digital pictures. She was very surprised by her own reaction. Likes to watch -me- in the mirror, huh! Asked for another session asap. 

I think we can always do better even if everything is generally coasting along fine, just like all aspects of the relationship. Exploration of our own back yard with fresh eyes. I've been taking on these kind of things much more proactively for the past 2 yrs as a way towards more intimacy, and also to ease my minor concern that she is maybe missing out on something she doesn't even know she loves. 

It opens up trust and communication more generally, I see it in her face. This was my goal and better sex was my way in. 

It's also a chance for me to take charge more, which she loves. 

And yes, that includes me asking her to up her game for me. I do it for her after all, and she sees the results. So over the past year, it's become an exciting bargain, not a complaint session even though all is well. Not sure how to explain this properly, I know this is a touchy subject, but we've navigated it.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

You know Torn, I thought about your question, and it pretty much comes down to someone's entire attitude about life. Some people will never be satisfied with anything in their life and will be miserable no matter how good they have it.

You know my story, dissatisfaction and porn was a big factor, however my ex was intimidated by my needs and desires. I still remember his face when I asked for certain things, it even came up in MC later, Madonna/***** complex. 

I didn't respond before largely bc of some of the comments I saw on here.... I'm glad that was addressed, it was disgusting to see the flagrantly attention seeking posts from someone who apparently will never change.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> You know Torn, I thought about your question, and it pretty much comes down to someone's entire attitude about life. Some people will never be satisfied with anything in their life and will be miserable no matter how good they have it.
> 
> You know my story, dissatisfaction and porn was a big factor, however my ex was intimidated by my needs and desires. I still remember his face when I asked for certain things, it even came up in MC later, Madonna/*** complex.
> 
> I didn't respond before largely bc of some of the comments I saw on here.... I'm glad that was addressed, it was disgusting to see the flagrantly attention seeking posts from someone who apparently will never change.


I suppose that really was my question. Will some people never be satisfied? It can be hard to be everything all the time. I know for me over a 30 plus year marriage I, at times was stellar and at others a little lackluster. To set the bar so high for every encounter seems impossible. 
I have learned much from this thread…even things I didn’t want to learn. 😂😉


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I suppose that really was my question. Will some people never be satisfied? It can be hard to be everything all the time. I know for me over a 30 plus year marriage I, at times was stellar and at others a little lackluster. To set the bar so high for every encounter seems impossible.
> I have learned much from this thread…even things I didn’t want to learn. 😂😉


🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I suppose that really was my question. Will some people never be satisfied? It can be hard to be everything all the time. I know for me over a 30 plus year marriage I, at times was stellar and at others a little lackluster. To set the bar so high for every encounter seems impossible.
> I have learned much from this thread…even things I didn’t want to learn. 😂😉


I personally think vampires are real. They don't drink blood, but they have an all devouring hole in their spirits which they can never fill and they will devour everything without concern as to consequences and who gets hurt.

Another analogy I can use is that they have at their core Charybdis, the whirlpool from Homers' Odyssey, that keeps on swallowing the ocean and everything in and on it, but will never quench it's thirst.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> To set the bar so high for every encounter seems impossible.


As I like to say, not great but good enough is still good.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

CharlieParker said:


> As I like to say, not great but good enough is still good.


That is right.

Just don't make my mistake, never ever say "I didn't say you were the best I ever had, I said you tried your best!"


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I suppose that really was my question. Will some people never be satisfied? It can be hard to be everything all the time. I know for me over a 30 plus year marriage I, at times was stellar and at others a little lackluster. To set the bar so high for every encounter seems impossible.
> I have learned much from this thread…even things I didn’t want to learn. 😂😉


Noone can be everything to someone, it's really stressful to be that person. Harder still knowing your spouse will never want to experience things you desire. I suppose I'm naive enough to think if you love someone, you want to please and satisfy them.

I have no idea what it's like to have sex with someone over that length of time, but I'm lucky enough to be with a man now who really puts himself out for me. He's still a little intimidated by my desire and every so often he'll be a bit antsy, but he's a great sport. I need to get him to try out ccpowerslave's rec of St. John's Wort, any recommendations for helping to alleviate male soreness?


----------



## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I have learned much from this thread…even things I didn’t want to learn. 😂😉


I learned that not everyone uses urinals.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> I learned that not everyone uses urinals.


Not going to lie that was 🤯


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> She’s crazy. I’d love to quit my job and just be able to live the life of leisure.


Life of leisure raising twins...  



hamadryad said:


> Hopefully there are some important lessons learned from life and experience...
> 
> I can tell you that when your partner and you are on the same page when it comes to sex, then everything is great, comfortable and spontaneous....I'll be honest, if a woman ever decided that she had to "schedule" sex for me, then i'd tell her to throw away her calendar and I'll figure out what works best for me...I wouldn't ever participate in that, because deep down how could anyone not feel like the person is only complying to get you off their back??......no thanks on that deal...But eh, if it works for others, then more power to you...But that's not what sex is supposed to be....imo...You would have a better experience with a prostitute...in both cases, it's transactional, at least with a prostitute you have some control over what/who you do and when....Bear in mind, I am not advocating prostitution, just that the transactional aspect is particularly similar..
> '
> ...


In my case sex was taken off the table because the feelings my wife had for me went away. There were a few years where she was "trapped" because she wasn't prepared to live on her own so she was just going through the motions enough and giving enough plausible excuses to keep me around until she was ready to leave. You could potentially try to identify the exact reasons she lost her feelings for me (assuming they were real to begin with) but I'm 90% sure she just realized it one day and wasn't sure herself and rationalized it after the fact.


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## Dictum Veritas (Oct 22, 2020)

Hiner112 said:


> In my case sex was taken off the table because the feelings my wife had for me went away. There were a few years where she was "trapped" because she wasn't prepared to live on her own so she was just going through the motions enough and giving enough plausible excuses to keep me around until she was ready to leave. You could potentially try to identify the exact reasons she lost her feelings for me (assuming they were real to begin with) but I'm 90% sure she just realized it one day and wasn't sure herself and rationalized it after the fact.


Man that's painful to read. A slow death is always torture even if it's the death of a relationship. If it has to die give me a quick clean cut any day.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

RebuildingMe said:


> I learned that not everyone uses urinals.


That is what trees are for!

When you gotta go, you don't argue, you don't hunt for a proper piddle container.

.............................................

Humor aside-

When given a choice, the male should always use the urinal, not the nearby toilet.
It is only being civilized.

Peeing on the seat is some, nasty sick.
Many, many men and boys do this.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I need to get him to try out ccpowerslave's rec of St. John's Wort, any recommendations for helping to alleviate male soreness?


So the paper I read that got me to try it was a double blind placebo paper where they tried 150mg x3 a day in a fairly large group of men. I forget how much they reported the increase was in their time to climax, it wasn’t a ton but it did something. So I went on the 150 until the first bottle ran out (a little over a month). 

For some reason in Feb this year (maybe because our house was damaged) I was literally a 2 pump chump and I started getting concerned. The 150 I maybe got to a 10 pump chump. Amazon ran out of 150 and I bought 300 instead and have been on it since then. After a couple months I have yet to finish before her again. So maybe 60x or something PIV with no PE.

Around that time I also bought a bottle of Promiscent spray. They said “use 3 sprays”. I used two. It was like Black and Decker, I probably could have drilled through a wall or hit it with a hammer. My wife was like “uhghhhh I am throwing that in the trash”. If she sees me with the bottle she is like “don’t you even think about it”. Anyway I bring this up because maybe try one spray for chafing or soreness.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Numb26 said:


> I feel about porn the same way I feel about strip clubs....a waste of time


I always loved Tim Allen's comment about strip clubs -- it's like going to a great steak house and eating having to eat a salad.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> I always loved Tim Allen's xomment about strip clubs -- it's like going to a great steak house and eating having to eat a salad.


The guys from my work who went regularly had the steak, and then they had their salad tossed as well.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Around that time I also bought a bottle of Promiscent spray. They said “use 3 sprays”. I used two. It was like Black and Decker, I probably could have drilled through a wall or hit it with a hammer. My wife was like “uhghhhh I am throwing that in the trash”. If she sees me with the bottle she is like “don’t you even think about it”. Anyway I bring this up because maybe try one spray for chafing or soreness.


No issues with PE, thankfully, but I did look a some of those sprays before (I'm a greedy *****, what can I say? ). I kinda feel sorry for the poor man sometimes, we've been seeing each other more often, so it's more of a problem now and I'd really like a solution.

I had a few of those in my cart, but haven't bought them. Doesn't that spray numb your wife too? Not to mention, I'm allergic to everything, so I'm always terrified to try stuff.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> No issues with PE, thankfully, but I did look a some of those sprays before (I'm a greedy ***, what can I say? ). I kinda feel sorry for the poor man sometimes, we've been seeing each other more often, so it's more of a problem now and I'd really like a solution.
> 
> I had a few of those in my cart, but haven't bought them. Doesn't that spray numb your wife too? Not to mention, I'm allergic to everything, so I'm always terrified to try stuff.


It soaks in. You spray it and rub it on about 10 minutes before. My wife didn’t notice. I was a bit worried because it dulls the feeling a lot and with her on top and going to town if it slips out and she rams down then maybe you don’t notice the injury until 20 minutes later.

I haven’t used it in a few months because I haven’t needed it.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Noone can be everything to someone, it's really stressful to be that person. Harder still knowing your spouse will never want to experience things you desire. I suppose I'm naive enough to think if you love someone, you want to please and satisfy them.
> 
> I have no idea what it's like to have sex with someone over that length of time, but I'm lucky enough to be with a man now who really puts himself out for me. He's still a little intimidated by my desire and every so often he'll be a bit antsy, but he's a great sport. I need to get him to try out ccpowerslave's rec of St. John's Wort, any recommendations for helping to alleviate male soreness?


TxTrini, I need to read up on your story. 

I think this point is really interesting. I guess it's impossible to get into someone's mind to see why they aren't satisfied. 

All I can say is that I kept things simple from as early as I can remember. I guess I always just wanted the "American dream", and I think I accomplished that. I wanted to do the best I could. Be the best version of me in everything I did. I've done well in my career in a challenging field. I could work to go higher, but that takes away my free time. I don't want my free time to go away. I wanted to find a down to earth Midwestern girl and marry her. I did that. I wanted her to love me as much as I love her. We did that. I wanted more than anything to be a dad. That was my biggest goal, but with a caveat; the children needed to be mine. By the skin of my teeth, I've also accomplished that. 

Am I satisfied in my life? Absolutely. Doesn't mean I'll stop improving myself. There's always something I could do better and I want to pass on that attitude to my kids. Sure, I have "woe is me" days, but doesn't everyone? Overall, I've accomplished what I set out to do. Maybe my ambitions are simple, but being happy? That's priceless. 

Doesn't mean things could have gone horribly wrong in the opposite direction. I subscribe to Joker's theory (as in the villain to batman). We as humans are only one REALLY bad day from losing our morals and our sanity. Thankfully, that day has never come for me, but I do worry at times how would I respond to such an event? Don't know.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> No issues with PE, thankfully, but I did look a some of those sprays before (I'm a greedy ***, what can I say? ). I kinda feel sorry for the poor man sometimes, we've been seeing each other more often, so it's more of a problem now and I'd really like a solution.
> 
> I had a few of those in my cart, but haven't bought them. Doesn't that spray numb your wife too? Not to mention, I'm allergic to everything, so I'm always terrified to try stuff.


Not sure if it is universally true, but Viagra ( which after TRT isnt needed otherwise, ) allows me to last as long as desired. We really are chemically controlled creatures.


----------



## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Hopefully there are some important lessons learned from life and experience...
> 
> I can tell you that when your partner and you are on the same page when it comes to sex, then everything is great, comfortable and spontaneous....I'll be honest, if a woman ever decided that she had to "schedule" sex for me, then i'd tell her to throw away her calendar and I'll figure out what works best for me...I wouldn't ever participate in that, because deep down how could anyone not feel like the person is only complying to get you off their back??......no thanks on that deal...But eh, if it works for others, then more power to you...But that's not what sex is supposed to be....imo...You would have a better experience with a prostitute...in both cases, it's transactional, at least with a prostitute you have some control over what/who you do and when....Bear in mind, I am not advocating prostitution, just that the transactional aspect is particularly similar..
> '
> ...


I think the "what were the events" question you posed would make a good thread topic, if it hasn't been posted on TAM before. Might be very insightful to us husbands.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> It soaks in. You spray it and rub it on about 10 minutes before. My wife didn’t notice. I was a bit worried because it dulls the feeling a lot and with her on top and going to town if it slips out and she rams down then maybe you don’t notice the injury until 20 minutes later.
> 
> I haven’t used it in a few months because I haven’t needed it.


Yeah, best I leave that alone then... with my luck, we'd end up on that TV show "Sex Sent Me To The ER". 


LATERILUS79 said:


> TxTrini, I need to read up on your story.
> 
> I think this point is really interesting. I guess it's impossible to get into someone's mind to see why they aren't satisfied.
> 
> ...


I didn't share more detail than was necessary at the time, so there's not a whole lot on there. Some things were too hard to say, even on an anonymous forum... judging from some of your comments, I know you understand.

When I said some people can't ever be satisfied, I didn't mean not to strive for better, that's different. I think you're happy b/c of your attitude, you focus on happiness and are content. Some people are never content in the moment or grateful for what they do have. 

I wanted and still want a partner who wants to grow with me. I want a best friend and lover, I want to share my life and I am trying to be the person I want. I watched my exH complain about so many things, but never once tried to change anything about himself or his circumstances, it was always someone else's fault and he was "the good guy". I'm actually happy he cheated, so I was released from my vows without guilt or regret. He didn't even have the guts to leave, I had to find out, file and leave... 

It's funny you mentioned that Joker quote, my bf adores that particular movie and so far I've seen him try to live his principles, not simply complain endlessly and keep doing the same old crap. I am trying to live my therapist's advice to live in the moment and do the best I can right then. 

You say you don't know how you would respond to a critical event, but you have been practicing for it your entire life by living your principles towards a singular purpose, I think you'll be ok. 



Rus47 said:


> Not sure if it is universally true, but Viagra ( which after TRT isnt needed otherwise, ) allows me to last as long as desired. We really are chemically controlled creatures.


Happily, he's been up for more, but I think he takes Cialis. Unfortunately, that doesn't prevent or cure chafed bits.


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> When I said some people can't ever be satisfied, I didn't mean not to strive for better, that's different. I think you're happy b/c of your attitude, you focus on happiness and are content. Some people are never content in the moment or grateful for what they do have.
> 
> I wanted and still want a partner who wants to grow with me. I want a best friend and lover, I want to share my life and I am trying to be the person I want. I watched my exH complain about so many things, but never once tried to change anything about himself or his circumstances, it was always someone else's fault and he was "the good guy". I'm actually happy he cheated, so I was released from my vows without guilt or regret. He didn't even have the guts to leave, I had to find out, file and leave...


Yeah, I think we are on the same page here. You make your own happiness. You become content by making goals and going after what you want. Even if you don’t achieve your ultimate goal, I think the main thing is to be able to look in the mirror and say “I did everything I could. There was not one more thing I could do”. To me, that is how you can reach contentment. I only feel like a failure when I know I didnt do everything I could.

I’m super sorry you had to deal with an exH like that. He has the ultimate loser’s mentality. He will be a loser his entire life thinking that way.

I’m the good guy? Everything is someone else’s fault? Please. I learned at 10 years old that no one owe’s you anything. Entitlement gets you no where and leaves you unfulfilled. Waiting on someone else to do something for you is a waste of time and gives you no sense of accomplishment.
Glad you were able to remove that cancer from your life. I hope your boyfriend is that partner you are looking for.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

TXTrini said:


> Yeah, best I leave that alone then... with my luck, we'd end up on that TV show "Sex Sent Me To The ER".
> 
> I didn't share more detail than was necessary at the time, so there's not a whole lot on there. Some things were too hard to say, even on an anonymous forum... judging from some of your comments, I know you understand.
> 
> ...


If he’s chafing, you need more lube.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

RebuildingMe said:


> If he’s chafing, you need more lube.


I found even with a lot of lube the first thing on me to go is the urethra, and by first thing to go I mean more than I am even capable of now at once. But back in the day when I could do like 5x in 2 hours sometimes my pants hurt my you know what and I would be walking funny.

Happened to a buddy of mine in college. I asked him why he was walking funny and he said from boning one of his roommates all night. I was real sad for him... /s


----------



## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> Yes, the latter is what I meant, but mirrors are fun too in a similar way. Maybe we just like watching ourselves because we’re both vain as heck, idk. Now it feels kind of weird when I say it out loud.


the mirror thing. Never was a massive fan, or I guess, I could take it or leave it. We do have a mirror set up perfectly in our room to where I can see everything perfectly when getting my wife from behind.
I simply revert back to my 15 year old boy self in these moments. Lots of of “nods” to myself. Letting myself know I’m doing a damn good job. Maybe a few thumbs up and high fives. Typically stops when my wife turns her head around and says “what are you doing?”


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> the mirror thing. Never was a massive fan, or I guess, I could take it or leave it. We do have a mirror set up perfectly in our room to where I can see everything perfectly when getting my wife from behind.
> I simply revert back to my 15 year old boy self in these moments. Lots of of “nods” to myself. Letting myself know I’m doing a damn good job. Maybe a few thumbs up and high fives. Typically stops when my wife turns her head around and says “what are you doing?”


I’m the 15 year old boy in my relationship most of the time.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> the mirror thing. Never was a massive fan, or I guess, I could take it or leave it. We do have a mirror set up perfectly in our room to where I can see everything perfectly when getting my wife from behind.
> I simply revert back to my 15 year old boy self in these moments. Lots of of “nods” to myself. Letting myself know I’m doing a damn good job. Maybe a few thumbs up and high fives. Typically stops when my wife turns her head around and says “what are you doing?”


We once lived in a rental house for a year that had a mirrored ceiling in the master bedroom. Not sure what that was all about, maybe one of the previous tenants was a working girl, who knows. Honestly kind of freaked both of us out until we learned to just ignore what was happening on the ceiling and focus on what was happening with us. Today our dresser opposite the bed has a mirror and we intentionally aligned the furniture to avoid reflections. Different "stokes: for different folks I guess. In my case, don't care to see that really old guy with my young-looking wife.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Soo....lesseee.....

Say you are a guy that is in one of these marriages....Woman either gave up entirely, or is now treating you like a 4 year old that wants an ice cream cone when it comes to sex...If you are fortunate, and the planets align, she'll just lay there flat on her back, tell you to put it in, then watch the clock and make sure you don't take too long..

You can't jerk off or watch porn, because it's immoral, God's watching you, it supports sex trafficking, and she can't feel demoralized because you are looking at women better and more sexy than she is...

You can't find another woman, because that would be messy and too drama filled, and she'll fall apart thinking you betrayed her, when in reality she has been betraying you for years...And besides, in some states you can actually be convicted of a felony....no, I am not kidding...look it up...

I guess you can also just leave and divorce, then you wind up in a tiny apartment over the bakery, eating off a hot plate and living like a dog, while she is in the house(that you may have mostly paid for),. with the kids that you now wont see nearly as often as you want or desire.. Miss a child support payment or two and you can be hauled off to jail....

Are we having fun yet?? 😂 😂


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

hamadryad said:


> Are we having fun yet?? 😂 😂


If most men or preferably at least almost all men, stopped settling for that kind of crud. And consequently stopped marrying any woman who peddled that schtick. Then such women, would lose the power they have over men who are inclined to accept that kind of nonsense.

That some men find themselves in that predicament, is as much a measure of them as it is of who they marry.

Make different choices, have different outcomes.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

hamadryad said:


> Soo....lesseee.....
> 
> Say you are a guy that is in one of these marriages....Woman either gave up entirely, or is now treating you like a 4 year old that wants an ice cream cone when it comes to sex...If you are fortunate, and the planets align, she'll just lay there flat on her back, tell you to put it in, then watch the clock and make sure you don't take too long..
> 
> ...


Funny, my XH who cheated got a tiny apartment above a real estate agency when he was kicked out (I paid for the house myself and kept it) and he was evicted within a month because he fell asleep with food on his hot plate and caused a fire. He probably should’ve stuck with the porn…jk.

I can honestly say now that I did betray him for years with no sex. Actually, worse than the no sex was me trying to initiate doing it and being so audibly put off by him (sigh) that he would give up in frustration. I had resentments to the moon with this man, but it turns my stomach now to think how unloved and undesirable I made another person that I vowed to protect and treasure feel. I never had an issue with porn, but porn and masturbation aren’t a substitute for the love and desire from a real partner. It took a long time after his betrayal for me to see my own. Sex is very important in my own life now and I see exactly what I physically and emotionally denied him. I wish I could take it back, but I can’t.

But this thread wasn’t about sexless marriages or starfish sex or the morality of porn It was questioning whether porn creates unrealistic expectations or entitlements in men, specifically guys who had wives that were into them.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

There's just a lot of guys who shouldn't be married. I'm 68 and I can tell you I've never heard so much griping on this subject as in this last decade in my entire life. It is a lot of entitlement and I got to believe it has to be tied somehow to the internet, whether it's porn or not. In more conservative decades passed such as the 50s and 60s, masturbation wasn't talked about but it was accepted as the remedy. Women weren't about to risk getting pregnant in their late 30s and 40s because it was dangerous. BJ's we're not something a lot of men would have asked of their wives nor other stuff their wives would not enjoy. So it was just accepted that sex shut way down after a certain point. And since women had children almost immediately upon marriage back then, there weren't any of these long honeymoon periods either until birth control became widespread. Way more time was spent on housekeeping and cooking the farther back you go because they didn't have a lot of modern conveniences to shortcut things and hardly anyone ate out on a regular basis.

Now the attitude is I want it so I should get it. Entitlement. I think porn is responsible on some levels. I don't think men would even be as horny and have it on the brain as much if they weren't looking at it in their spare time.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Bluesclues said:


> But this thread wasn’t about sexless marriages or starfish sex or the morality of porn It was questioning whether porn creates unrealistic expectations or entitlements in men, specifically guys who had wives that were into them.


As with all such things it depends upon each particular individuals, rather than someones gender. For some the answer is yes, for others the answer is no.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I grow up dated married before the internet and there was no shops selling copies of playboy you could not get condoms and when they came in they were sold in pharmacist only , i and my wife did not know any thing about oral sex , guys used lingerie catalogs as porn , 
was it a better time I don't think so I think keeping people down by not education them is a bad thing , and the end result when people find out you were hiding info from them they turn against you , 

yes we were pulled from a time that was black out on anything to do with sex to a open the doors and let run wild which came about for many right about the time AIDS was hitting which slowed things down again but after we got hit with other things coming to light from the past and turned people against all types of ruling bodies church and state 


DownByTheRiver said:


> There's just a lot of guys who shouldn't be married. I'm 68 and I can tell you I've never heard so much griping on this subject as in this last decade in my entire life. It is a lot of entitlement and I got to believe it has to be tied somehow to the internet, whether it's porn or not. In more conservative decades passed such as the 50s and 60s, masturbation wasn't talked about but it was accepted as the remedy. Women weren't about to risk getting pregnant in their late 30s and 40s because it was dangerous. BJ's we're not something a lot of men would have asked of their wives nor other stuff their wives would not enjoy. So it was just accepted that sex shut way down after a certain point. And since women had children almost immediately upon marriage back then, there weren't any of these long honeymoon periods either until birth control became widespread. Way more time was spent on housekeeping and cooking the farther back you go because they didn't have a lot of modern conveniences to shortcut things and hardly anyone ate out on a regular basis.
> 
> Now the attitude is I want it so I should get it. Entitlement. I think porn is responsible on some levels. I don't think men would even be as horny and have it on the brain as much if they weren't looking at it in their spare time.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Now the attitude is I want it so I should get it. Entitlement. I think porn is responsible on some levels. *I don't think men would even be as horny and have it on the brain as much if they weren't looking at it in their spare time.*


What?? A man being a man ( and horny ) means he is looking at porn in his spare time??!! Maybe some or even most, but definitely not all! Generalizations are nearly always just wrong. I am a male who hasn't been interested in porn since I started dating as a teenager, and know am not the only one. 

The very nature of the male of any species is to pursue the female for yes (gasp) SEX, the pursuit being successful if the female is receptive. Besides, men aren't the only gender with "it" "on the brain", there are plenty of females of *all ages (like cougars) *that are just as interested as men, and plenty of females watching porn. Some of either gender who are looking at porn are maybe frustrated because their partner has decided to unilaterally renegotiate the marriage contract, so they are left with no other avenue.

Why is it "entitlement" to expect to live as a normal human? Especially in marriage, which is essentially a contract formalizing a monogamous SEXUAL relationship. If sex disappears, what is left? If don't want sex with monogamous partner, don't marry in first place. And I am not talking about mental or medical disability, I am talking about a willing, loving, pair bond.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Well, it was my decision to stay. It was that or divorce. As I said before, I didn't want another man to raise my children. Just the thought of that made me shiver. I guess we compromised, on her terms. She had accepted divorce as an option, so it was down to me. I regret it? No. Was it painful? Yes, very much. Only recently I found out that her minor "mental issues" were, in reality, massive and she hid it from me. Since she always refused therapy, whatever I did wouldn't have changed anything.


Are your children grown yet? How old, if you don't mind my asking? 
It's ok obviously if is too personal.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

true 
I think people look at porn for a lot of different reasons , 
i think there are many people that don't look at porn , 
porn can become harmful if you look at too much and replace real life with porn , more men look at porn than women and many men look at hard porn more so than most women 
but what is the difference in looking at porn and reading a book with a lot of sex in it , just seemly women like porn with a story ( so do I if I was going to look at it ) but most me just want sex porn and would fast forward to what they call the good bits , all you have to do is see some of the groups that show video guys point out to each other to jump to 1m.32s of the video


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Hopefully there are some important lessons learned from life and experience...
> 
> I can tell you that when your partner and you are on the same page when it comes to sex, then everything is great, comfortable and spontaneous....I'll be honest, if a woman ever decided that she had to "schedule" sex for me, then i'd tell her to throw away her calendar and I'll figure out what works best for me...I wouldn't ever participate in that, because deep down how could anyone not feel like the person is only complying to get you off their back??......no thanks on that deal...But eh, if it works for others, then more power to you...But that's not what sex is supposed to be....imo...You would have a better experience with a prostitute...in both cases, it's transactional, at least with a prostitute you have some control over what/who you do and when....Bear in mind, I am not advocating prostitution, just that the transactional aspect is particularly similar..
> '
> ...


You focus on what may be negatives in some relationships re scheduling however you aren't, and should focus on the positives most couples who reserve time for sex enjoy. 

Which is:
1. A W that is fully on board for good, thorough sexual encounters. 
2. Both parties are in great frame of mind, emotionally and physically ready for sex.
3. Plenty of time and different environments and positions as plans evolve. 
4. Knowing schedules aren't set for what works for her only but what's best for both spouses. 
5. Knowing plenty of additional encounters happen in addition to reserved times.

You've got to open your mind up a bit more to big picture.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> BJ's we're not something a lot of men would have asked of their wives nor other stuff their wives would not enjoy.* So it was just accepted that sex shut way down after a certain point. *And since women had children almost immediately upon marriage back then, there weren't any of these long honeymoon periods either until birth control became widespread. Way more time was spent on housekeeping and cooking the farther back you go because they didn't have a lot of modern conveniences to shortcut things and hardly anyone ate out on a regular basis.
> 
> Now the attitude is I want it so I should get it. Entitlement. I think porn is responsible on some levels. I don't think men would even be as horny and have it on the brain as much if they weren't looking at it in their spare time.



I dunno there....

I am a bit younger than you, but at that time, it was also "just accepted" that a lot of men kept women on the side...Practically all of them did, when I think of it...Maybe it's a cultural thing,? I dunno..When I say accepted, I believe that the women felt that as long as he wasn't bringing her around and no one knew she existed, then he wasn't after her for sex she wasn't willing or able to give and as long as things stayed peaceful, no one cared...I know my own grandfather on my mothers side had a couple of women...They(mom and sisters) always joked about the siblings they may have floating around..

So yes, a lot of things were different...

I dunno...like stated previously, I was pretty fortunate in these situations...Never had to deal with it....I can say with authority if I did, I wouldn't just "accept:" it...nope...But hearing these stories just dumb founds me ...The thought that a woman now unilaterally decides what a man can do and how he can apply his natural and innate drive just sounds completely horrible....I don't say that women now have to become all day sex toys and have no autonomy here, but at the same time, there has to be some compromise...I can't imagine living that type of life as a man...The stored energy and frustration would turn me into an animal...and not someone that would be pleasant to be around..


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> You focus on what may be negatives in some relationships re scheduling however you aren't, and should focus on the positives most couples who reserve time for sex enjoy.
> 
> Which is:
> 1. A W that is fully on board for good, thorough sexual encounters.
> ...


Sorry, bud...I don't need to "open my mind" to anything...I do me and you do you....

Scheduling sex, duty sex, non spontaneous sex, etc isn't my idea of fun or fulfillment....If it works for you or others, great! But for me, it then is contrived...Why would couples that desired each other sexually need to schedule anything? If there wasn't a lot of time, they became "quickies" I am sure you have heard the term, no?? And what exactly does "getting ready" for sex mean? If two people are on the same page, there is no need for that..I can honestly say that I never had to get ready for sex with someone I had a strong sexual attraction to...I mean, sure there will be times when people are sick, or the circumstances just don't call for it,. but there never really needs that 'build up"...I know what this looks like, btw...so I speak with experience here..


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Now the attitude is I want it so I should get it. Entitlement. I think porn is responsible on some levels. I don't think men would even be as horny and have it on the brain as much if they weren't looking at it in their spare time.


I haven’t looked at porn in 8 months.

The Mrs. showed up to bed last night naked, shattering my expectations and was so freaky I used my new safe word “pico de gallo” so she didn’t mess up my groin worse than it is. Based on my data she’d normally be refusing due to her period until today but I guess she was horny so yay me!!!

I woke up at 3:10am with a raging hard on that still hasn’t gone away and I have been awake almost 40 minutes now reading forums and watching the news. I came this way. I had amazing sex five hours earlier. There was no external influence I am just a horny boy.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> Sorry, bud...I don't need to "open my mind" to anything...I do me and you do you....
> 
> Scheduling sex, duty sex, non spontaneous sex, etc isn't my idea of fun or fulfillment....If it works for you or others, great! But for me, it then is contrived...Why would couples that desired each other sexually need to schedule anything? If there wasn't a lot of time, they became "quickies" I am sure you have heard the term, no?? And what exactly does "getting ready" for sex mean? If two people are on the same page, there is no need for that..I can honestly say that I never had to get ready for sex with someone I had a strong sexual attraction to...I mean, sure there will be times when people are sick, or the circumstances just don't call for it,. but there never really needs that 'build up"...I know what this looks like, btw...so I speak with experience here..


Sorry bud, you're limiting yourself because you have the younger persons disease I know it all-itus.

You don't see differing perspectives or value additional information because you believe you're always right and if you don't know something it doesn't exist. Tragic, such a closed mind.

If one isn't growing one is stagnating and will one day get shocked out of one's comfort zone.

You'll think what you want but be sure and realize there are others that you can learn from.

The adult perspective is one understands that concept. You'll get there one day.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Personal said:


> Are we having fun yet?? 😂 😂
> 
> If most men or preferably at least almost all men, stopped settling for that kind of crud. And consequently stopped marrying any woman who peddled that schtick. Then such women, would lose the power they have over men who are inclined to accept that kind of nonsense.
> 
> ...


While I do agree, its not always easily seen at the beginning. I'll compare it to some "great" jobs I have been offered and taken. Then six months down the road they decide they want you to do this or do that. And you say, "That wasn't part of the original job offer" and their reply is "it is now. Do it or leave"

So I do agree with you on the overall aspect Personal its just sometimes we can't predict the future so it might require making alot of changes which is not always easy.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> Soo....lesseee.....
> 
> Say you are a guy that is in one of these marriages....Woman either gave up entirely, or is now treating you like a 4 year old that wants an ice cream cone when it comes to sex...If you are fortunate, and the planets align, she'll just lay there flat on her back, tell you to put it in, then watch the clock and make sure you don't take too long..
> 
> ...


This is where I feel I am at right now...aside from the guilt about porn. Although as someone else mentoned, watching porn now feels like going to a steak house and having a salad.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> Sorry bud, you're limiting yourself because you have the younger persons disease I know it all-itus.
> 
> You don't see differing perspectives or value additional information because you believe you're always right and if you don't know something it doesn't exist. Tragic, such a closed mind.
> 
> ...



No...what you are suffering from is because someone else doesn't see it your way, then they are wrong or "know it all's"....common issue...Because you do it, you expect it to be "normalized" by getting others to accept it and come on board...For some reason, these people think that they can't feel good about whatever they do in their lives if someone else doesn't do the same...

I am likely older than you and have perhaps seen more and done more than you have...I have had a very interesting and diverse life...I don't know that for a fact, but just a guess..

With regards to this topic, I don't need to "learn from others",,,I need to (and did) figure out what works best for me and what I need as fulfillment in my own life...

It's not a matter of "right vs wrong"...Its what ever works for that person vs another....perhaps someday YOU will figure that out rather than trying to convince someone that doesn't give a crap about what works for someone else...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> I haven’t looked at porn in 8 months.
> 
> The Mrs. showed up to bed last night naked, shattering my expectations and was so freaky I used my new safe word “pico de gallo” so she didn’t mess up my groin worse than it is. Based on my data she’d normally be refusing due to her period until today but I guess she was horny so yay me!!!
> 
> I woke up at 3:10am with a raging hard on that still hasn’t gone away and I have been awake almost 40 minutes now reading forums and watching the news. I came this way. I had amazing sex five hours earlier. There was no external influence I am just a horny boy.


you should be banned for a few days for too many positive posts.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> you should be banned for a few days for too many positive posts.


HA! I was thinking the same thing!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> What?? A man being a man ( and horny ) means he is looking at porn in his spare time??!! Maybe some or even most, but definitely not all! Generalizations are nearly always just wrong. I am a male who hasn't been interested in porn since I started dating as a teenager, and know am not the only one.
> 
> The very nature of the male of any species is to pursue the female for yes (gasp) SEX, the pursuit being successful if the female is receptive. Besides, men aren't the only gender with "it" "on the brain", there are plenty of females of *all ages (like cougars) *that are just as interested as men, and plenty of females watching porn. Some of either gender who are looking at porn are maybe frustrated because their partner has decided to unilaterally renegotiate the marriage contract, so they are left with no other avenue.
> 
> Why is it "entitlement" to expect to live as a normal human? Especially in marriage, which is essentially a contract formalizing a monogamous SEXUAL relationship. If sex disappears, what is left? If don't want sex with monogamous partner, don't marry in first place. And I am not talking about mental or medical disability, I am talking about a willing, loving, pair bond.


I don't think she's saying that men are only horny because of porn. Of course men have hormones, as do women....thus the claim that a guy in a sexless marriage likely has a woman who's just not into him.

Her point, and I agree, is that porn artificially inflates a sex drive. It's not unlike pounding energy drinks and then claiming you're all kinds of high energy and complaining that others can't keep up. You'd probably have some energy anyway but red bull will artificially inflate it.

And it is true that sexual expectations have increased. It's not necessarily a bad thing....a good sex life is great for bonding and lots of fun...but i do think porn has a lot to do with it. There was a poster here that once said that men used to expect access but not necessarily enthusiasm.

Now she must be enthusiastic and want it like him or he feels unwanted. We see that attitude here all the time.

I understand this...a partner who you want and who wants you is amazing. I'm just pointing out that this wasn't always a requirement. I very much enjoy sex so I'm at least glad we're not shaming women for enjoying it anymore.

And what constitutes a normal sex life has definitely changed....I'd bet that my grandfather did not expect bj's from my grandmother. That's a porn thing, and I say this as one who enjoys giving them.

Since humans have always had erotica I suppose porn has its place, I just think it can be damaging to the couple bond.

What's always been interesting to me is the number of men who go into hysterics at the very mention of porn not being a good idea. Not you guys here...the discussion here has been great....it's just something I've seen over many years on this site.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> There was a poster here that once said that men used to expect access but not necessarily enthusiasm.
> 
> Now she must be enthusiastic and want it like him or he feels unwanted. We see that attitude here all the time.


Could you explain more re the attitude of wanting or expecting enthusiasm?

E. g., If I reverse the genders in your quote above, I would think the woman would consider leaving the man for his lack of enthusiasm.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> And what constitutes a normal sex life has definitely changed....I'd bet that my grandfather did not expect bj's from my grandmother.
> *
> Since humans have always had erotica* I suppose porn has its place, I just think it can be damaging to the couple bond.


I have no idea what grandpa and grandma (or mom and dad) expected of one another, people kept to their privacy and weren't typing away on internet forums about it. But, I doubt it was much different than what healthy married couples expect today. My ancestors had kids as fast as they could because disease and accidents took most children before they could grow to maturity. 

I also have no idea whether what constitutes "normal" sex life as changed. But reading through books about history, and looking at photos from archeological sites with paintings inside temple buildings of couples engaged in every sexual position feasible, it is hard for me to believe that there is much new under the sun regarding human sexuality. Catherine the Great's cause of death and King David's watching the wife of another man bathe comes to mind.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Her point, and I agree, is that porn artificially inflates a sex drive. It's not unlike pounding energy drinks and then claiming you're all kinds of high energy and complaining that others can't keep up. You'd probably have some energy anyway but red bull will artificially inflate it.


Do you think that it has a lasting effect? For example if I stop pounding energy drinks (or in my case coffee and green tea extract) do I crash or does it have a lingering effect?

I ask because one of the revelations I had about my porn use was, “What if instead of viewing this and spanking it could my wife could provide it?” So I shut it down completely.

In my case at least so far I can say turning it off did not decrease my sex drive one iota.

The “enthusiasm” part is harder to quantify. Maybe it did contribute an expectation that there are women out there who want to bang. However it’s not just porn that does this.

A lot of the men’s literature on how to fix your situation talks about “alpha” vs “beta”, LL4U, etc... suggesting that your wife has that porn star potential in terms of her sex drive but it’s for other people. I conducted the thought experiment that went like this:

If we got divorced and my then ex-wife is single, how long is it before she is banging someone and how often is that happening?

The result of my thought experiment was not that long and way more often than we’re doing it now and likely with plenty of enthusiasm.

The follow up to this is why am I not that man?

Part of becoming that man in my case I think was dumping the porn and also the expectation of enthusiasm every time. Yesterday let’s face it she basically initiated on me. This would be inconceivable to me over a year ago.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

hamadryad said:


> No...what you are suffering from is because someone else doesn't see it your way, then they are wrong or "know it all's"....common issue...Because you do it, you expect it to be "normalized" by getting others to accept it and come on board...For some reason, these people think that they can't feel good about whatever they do in their lives if someone else doesn't do the same...
> 
> I am likely older than you and have perhaps seen more and done more than you have...I have had a very interesting and diverse life...I don't know that for a fact, but just a guess..
> 
> ...


Well, let's just say we disagree. Whereas my first thought was well, combined with your other posts, you need to get your head out of your butt, however I refrained and still not saying that, really.

You don't see value in adding more good sex with an enthusiastic partner to your relationship, and that's your call. I'd really doubt you're older than me btw.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> For example if the stars align and I end up lasting a long time say 5+ minutes after she has already had her orgasm...


Five minutes is a long time?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Five minutes is a long time?


5 minutes AFTER her orgasm, no idea how long it took to get there.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> 5 minutes AFTER her orgasm, no idea how long it took to get there.


If we’re not using a vibrator at all she will generally take between 5 and 15 minutes. Sometimes she’ll get impatient and grab the vibrator. In any case I’m talking after that time has already elapsed.

For men in my age group by Intravaginal ejaculation latency time - Wikipedia the average time is 5.4 minutes so we’re talking 2-4x that which is where problems arise for her.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Cici1990 said:


> A 2017 study published in Archives of Sexual Behavior studied the sexual behavior of just over 26,000 people from 1989 to 2014. It found that the average adult has sex 54 times a year, or an average of about once a week.


Keep in mind that everyone on TAM has a perfect body, the guys are much larger than average, the women all have large boobs, and none of them would lie.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> For men in my age group by Intravaginal ejaculation latency time - Wikipedia the average time is 5.4 minutes so we’re talking 2-4x that which is where problems arise for her.


No wonder so many women are frustrated or not excited about sex. I wonder what the average refractory period is for a guy who only lasts 5.4 minutes.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sfort said:


> No wonder so many women are frustrated or not excited about sex. I wonder what the average refractory period is for a guy who only lasts 5.4 minutes.


I can say mine right now is bad, so if I pop off early it is a problem. I think the chances of my wife having one in 5.4 minutes without external stimulation is next to zero; would have to be perfect setup.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> If we’re not using a vibrator at all she will generally take between 5 and 15 minutes. Sometimes she’ll get impatient and grab the vibrator. In any case I’m talking after that time has already elapsed.
> 
> For men in my age group by Intravaginal ejaculation latency time - Wikipedia the average time is 5.4 minutes so we’re talking 2-4x that which is where problems arise for her.





Sfort said:


> No wonder so many women are frustrated or not excited about sex. I wonder what the average refractory period is for a guy who only lasts 5.4 minutes.


I think this is why it is key to have ample foreplay before PIV sex. Men and women are just not synced up in this regard. A woman can take 20+ minutes to orgasm while a man needs 5. She needs to get a head start. I know my wife starts to lose interest after 10 straight minutes of PIV sex. It needs to change up, different positions, etc. Also, if I'm thrusting away for 10 straight minutes I'll be dropping sweat all over the place. 

Just like it isn't just about frequency, it isn't just about how long. It is about the overall quality.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I think this is why it is key to have ample foreplay before PIV sex. Men and women are just not synced up in this regard. A woman can take 20+ minutes to orgasm while a man needs 5.


Indeed. I think my wife goes “fastest” when she has the most spontaneous desire. Trying to preheat the oven for a long time and prime her when she’s not coming to me in the beginning I’m not sure how much it helps. The vibrator helps though😈


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Indeed. I think my wife goes “fastest” when she has the most spontaneous desire. Trying to preheat the oven for a long time and prime her when she’s not coming to me in the beginning I’m not sure how much it helps. The vibrator helps though😈


This feels a bit weird to ask but I do mean it seriously. Can your wife orgasm from penetration alone if the experience is good enough or long enough, etc. or does she still need clitoral stimulation either by vibrator or something else (hand, body part of choice, a different type of toy)? I’m just focused on this a lot lately because I’ve never been able to orgasm with just vaginal penetration alone, no matter the circumstances. A majority of women don’t, but I wish I was one of the lucky ones who could. I think vaginal penetration makes the orgasm feel better but it won’t give me one all on its own.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> ... it is hard for me to believe that there is much new under the sun regarding human sexuality. *Catherine the Great's cause of death* and King David's watching the wife of another man bathe comes to mind.


Catherine the Great's actual cause of death was a stroke. She got up in the middle of the night to pee (at most middle aged + people can attest is pretty common), had a stroke and was found on the floor the next morning by her ladies. She remained in a coma until her death the next day. An autopsy confirmed the COD. 

The "horse" myth was most likely started by her political enemies. A queen who essentially stole the throne from her immensely incompetent husband, conducted her romantic relationships in much the same manner as most highborn men of her day, and was a successful and powerful ruler in her own right? Well, lets just say it won her a lot of powerful enemies. 

Ladies of the day just weren't supposed to be capable of such things. The ones that were had to be "unnatural" in some way. Which usually meant they were either witches or whores. Since she was dead and the witch hysteria of prior centuries had mostly faded, the witch thing wasn't terribly useful anymore. That wh*re thing, though? That's had legs! Instead of remembering her immense contributions to her country and to history as a whole, centuries after her death, most people just remember her as some unnatural sex freak.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> This feels a bit weird to ask but I do mean it seriously. Can your wife orgasm from penetration alone if the experience is good enough or long enough, etc. or does she still need clitoral stimulation either by vibrator or something else (hand, body part of choice, a different type of toy)? I’m just focused on this a lot lately because I’ve never been able to orgasm with just vaginal penetration alone, no matter the circumstances. A majority of women don’t, but I wish I was one of the lucky ones who could. I think vaginal penetration makes the orgasm feel better but it won’t give me one all on its own.


My wife does. She won't use external stimulation during PIV sex, even thought I've tried to encourage her to try it and I'm not always in a position to do it for her. As a result she doesn't orgasm every time we have sex, but does most times. I just have to either get her there before hand or get her close before moving on to PIV sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> What?? A man being a man ( and horny ) means he is looking at porn in his spare time??!! Maybe some or even most, but definitely not all! Generalizations are nearly always just wrong. I am a male who hasn't been interested in porn since I started dating as a teenager, and know am not the only one.
> 
> The very nature of the male of any species is to pursue the female for yes (gasp) SEX, the pursuit being successful if the female is receptive. Besides, men aren't the only gender with "it" "on the brain", there are plenty of females of *all ages (like cougars) *that are just as interested as men, and plenty of females watching porn. Some of either gender who are looking at porn are maybe frustrated because their partner has decided to unilaterally renegotiate the marriage contract, so they are left with no other avenue.
> 
> Why is it "entitlement" to expect to live as a normal human? Especially in marriage, which is essentially a contract formalizing a monogamous SEXUAL relationship. If sex disappears, what is left? If don't want sex with monogamous partner, don't marry in first place. And I am not talking about mental or medical disability, I am talking about a willing, loving, pair bond.


That was never normal.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I dunno there....
> 
> I am a bit younger than you, but at that time, it was also "just accepted" that a lot of men kept women on the side...Practically all of them did, when I think of it...Maybe it's a cultural thing,? I dunno..When I say accepted, I believe that the women felt that as long as he wasn't bringing her around and no one knew she existed, then he wasn't after her for sex she wasn't willing or able to give and as long as things stayed peaceful, no one cared...I know my own grandfather on my mothers side had a couple of women...They(mom and sisters) always joked about the siblings they may have floating around..
> 
> ...


Women don't have to do anything they don't want to do. Excessive demands of any kind break up marriages and a lot of what I read on here is definitely excessive.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> This feels a bit weird to ask but I do mean it seriously. Can your wife orgasm from penetration alone if the experience is good enough or long enough, etc. or does she still need clitoral stimulation either by vibrator or something else (hand, body part of choice, a different type of toy)? I’m just focused on this a lot lately because I’ve never been able to orgasm with just vaginal penetration alone, no matter the circumstances. A majority of women don’t, but I wish I was one of the lucky ones who could. I think vaginal penetration makes the orgasm feel better but it won’t give me one all on its own.


Yeah she can’t as least not with what I’m packing. In my research I have learned of 3 types:

Clitoral
G-spot - debatable also clitoral
A-spot - cervix

As far as I know with what I am packing I only ever remember my wife saying I hit her cervix once. She didn’t care for it. Now what I heard about that is that if you can hit it, it’s possible for some women to have orgasms from that but since I can’t do it without something like an extender we haven’t tried. Not that I am opposed to using an extension.

I haven’t been able to get her to have a g-spot orgasm either despite some effort.

Clitoral she has no problem.

If she is on top and grinding she can have an orgasm with no hands or toys or anything and in my mind I can be “oh it’s my D putting in work” but in reality it’s just my pelvis. Fortunately I don’t really care. She has never had one in any other position with me without using some external form of stimulation.

So yeah, I wonder if more length or girth would do it for her. I have considered getting an extender to see if she’d like it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I haven’t looked at porn in 8 months.
> 
> The Mrs. showed up to bed last night naked, shattering my expectations and was so freaky I used my new safe word “pico de gallo” so she didn’t mess up my groin worse than it is. Based on my data she’d normally be refusing due to her period until today but I guess she was horny so yay me!!!
> 
> I woke up at 3:10am with a raging hard on that still hasn’t gone away and I have been awake almost 40 minutes now reading forums and watching the news. I came this way. I had amazing sex five hours earlier. There was no external influence I am just a horny boy.


The point is if the woman doesn't want to deal with someone's excessive sex drive then she doesn't have to. You and your wife seem to be getting along about it and so that just means your needs are similar, but most women are simply not as horny all the time like most men are except when they're very young and first meet. Just because you have a high sex drive doesn't mean someone was entitled to keep up with that. I go back to my original statement which is a lot of men just should not be married because they're not going to find one person that over a long-term will acquiesce and put their various needs below the needs of a man's high sex drive which once you have a family and all the responsibilities that come with it simply isn't going to be on the top of your priority list much less your desire list. 

And my other point is that it is a recent phenomenon that men think they should acquiesce to it. Not since caveman days has there been so much entitlement. There are more important things in life. It's just really narcissistic to build your life around getting someone else to satisfy your horniness and making that the priority in whatever partnership you have. 

Hey maybe there's something in the water. I don't know. Sex is supposed to be mutually fun for as long as that lasts and not a duty.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah she can’t as least not with what I’m packing. In my research I have learned of 3 types:
> 
> Clitoral
> G-spot - debatable also clitoral
> ...


My cervix gets hit on the regular and getting all the way in there has never aided in having a purely penetrative orgasm. It just hurts. But I can’t speak for all women.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> My cervix gets hit on the regular and getting all the way in there has never aided in having a purely penetrative orgasm. It just hurts. But I can’t speak for all women.


I forget which podcast it was but I listened to one with a panel of ladies on it and one was having the A spot type. She said when she first started it was painful and she explored it by herself with a toy and eventually through that exploration learned to have one and then could tell a partner that could hit it what to do.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I dunno there....
> 
> I am a bit younger than you, but at that time, it was also "just accepted" that a lot of men kept women on the side...Practically all of them did, when I think of it...Maybe it's a cultural thing,? I dunno..When I say accepted, I believe that the women felt that as long as he wasn't bringing her around and no one knew she existed, then he wasn't after her for sex she wasn't willing or able to give and as long as things stayed peaceful, no one cared...I know my own grandfather on my mothers side had a couple of women...They(mom and sisters) always joked about the siblings they may have floating around..
> 
> ...


Yes it is a cultural thing about being accepted that men keep women on the side. Most American women won't put up with it. That's why I say they should just stay single and not lie and not leave women into thinking they are the only one.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The point is if the woman doesn't want to deal with someone's excessive sex drive then she doesn't have to. You and your wife seem to be getting along about it and so that just means your needs are similar, but most women are simply not as horny all the time like most men are except when they're very young and first meet. Just because you have a high sex drive doesn't mean someone was entitled to keep up with that. I go back to my original statement which is a lot of men just should not be married because they're not going to find one person that over a long-term will acquiesce and put their various needs below the needs of a man's high sex drive which once you have a family and all the responsibilities that come with it simply isn't going to be on the top of your priority list much less your desire list.


Yeah I think we’re on the same page. Nobody is entitled to anything and I agree with the marriage part as well. My expectation was that unless there are physical problems sex is there on a regular basis and ultimately my wife agreed. If she didn’t we wouldn’t have remained married and that would suck but it would also be ok.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Cici1990 said:


> This feels a bit weird to ask but I do mean it seriously. Can your wife orgasm from penetration alone if the experience is good enough or long enough, etc. or does she still need clitoral stimulation either by vibrator or something else (hand, body part of choice, a different type of toy)? I’m just focused on this a lot lately because I’ve never been able to orgasm with just vaginal penetration alone, no matter the circumstances. A majority of women don’t, but I wish I was one of the lucky ones who could. I think vaginal penetration makes the orgasm feel better but it won’t give me one all on its own.


If PIV is done right and the fit is right, then women are getting some clitoral stimulation. Unfortunately that's usually not the case. But there are some women who can get off solely from PIV. But they are in the minority. And how long it lasts doesn't always matter if the fit and everything is right, but that is just a matter of the two people's bodies having the right fit. It's unfortunate that there are no absolutes. One woman May get off with a whole lot of fast sustained PIV with the right fit, one woman may just get chafed from it and tell you to stop. I think most women enjoy PIV whether they orgasm from it or not because it's a more intimate position. Most women I know don't like their man being way off at the foot of the bed if they really into them and would prefer to have them up close and kissing around. A lot of men tend to want to just rear back and connect only through the penis and that's just not popular with all women.

One thing I noticed in these ongoing discussions about sex is that all that seems to get talked about is penis and oral. If you are overlooking using your fingers to get the woman off in combination with other activities, that is where you're making your biggest mistake.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah she can’t as least not with what I’m packing. In my research I have learned of 3 types:
> 
> Clitoral
> G-spot - debatable also clitoral
> ...


You can touch the cervix with your fingers. It just kind of moves out of the way during sex. The a-spot isn't the cervix. It is on the front wall of the vagina, a little deeper than the g-spot. There is another spot even deep, maybe some call that the a-spot too. That typically requires 8 or more inches to hit.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> That typically requires 8 or more inches to hit.


Yeah I am not packing that much heat.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I am not packing that much heat.


Nor are most men who claim they are.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I am not packing that much heat.


Yeah, I've never had the pleasure of experiencing that part of my wife's anatomy.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Ok, so there's this debate as to unrealistic expectations from porn... So far, only men are getting blamed and women are "suffering" the extra demands. As a very HD woman (from an early age) who also had a sexless marriage for over a decade, I understand how rejection feels and used porn to meet my base needs at times. 

I came across it very early as a kid (before the internet) and always had a very high drive, I'm not sure if porn influenced it, or was responsible. It helped me to be more choosy about my partners, b/c I didn't want to run through a bunch, which would have been too easy for me to do. When the internet came out, cybersex was an outlet for things I didn't do IRL, for the same reason, no desire to run through men, I had stashes of non-floppy pics on floppy disks  Of course, I did not pursue this outlet while married, I respect my vows.

Of course, it's not a constant thing, I've had periods where I wasn't interested when life got busier, or my exH and I were at odds with quality and frequency (his choice). Even when I had major surgery in the general vicinity, I was interested in sex lying in my hospital bed. It freaked my exH out a bit when I came home and asked him, of course he didn't... but the urge was horrible. I think sexual mismatch occurs so often, but it's not only b/c of male/female dynamics. In my case, the mismatch was easier to go undetected before marriage b/c we were long-distance for years, and I let him convince me to elope. It was only after that sex died down, I eventually stopped trying.

Anyway, I noticed porn did increase my drive, so I still have to be careful with that, b/c I had a period after DD where it surged horribly and I was out of control. I used it earlier in my current relationship when we weren't seeing each other as often to "tide me over" and I noticed it did increase my expectations. Luckily, my partner tries his best to accommodate my needs although he'd be happier with half the frequency due to his refractory period and chafed bits. Since we've been seeing each other more frequently, I cut back my porn use to manage my expectations. I try to do other things instead, lately, I've been doing very physical home projects.

My bf and I discussed frequency, b/c at one point he was concerned he wasn't enough for me, sometimes he still has moments of doubt. He wonders if I am suppressing my nature and if I'd be happier with alternate arrangements, but I want a relationship with one man. In the end, sexual desire and expectations must be managed or it can completely take over your life and thought process. You pretty much have to pick your poison and take measures to ensure you will be happy with your decision, whatever you decide. Otherwise, what is the alternative? Keep searching for the one perfect person or have multiple partners to satisfy all of your urges? 

I see why some people are disgusted by the whole idea of porn, the amateur category particularly makes people think they can make every single one of their desires a reality. There's no way one person can meet every single expectation, with regards to sex or anything else. I truly think all this discontent is contentious and poisonous and will lead to no good end for people who don't try to compromise.

If men as a whole are so horny they'll kick their lower D wives to the curb for not meeting their every desire, where are ALL these men going to find partners? Will you all be ok sharing a small pool of very HD women? Think very carefully about what you wish for, you might get it and not be able to handle it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I am not packing that much heat.


It hurts to hit the cervix.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The point is if the woman doesn't want to deal with someone's excessive sex drive then she doesn't have to. You and your wife seem to be getting along about it and so that just means your needs are similar, but most women are simply not as horny all the time like most men are except when they're very young and first meet. Just because you have a high sex drive doesn't mean someone was entitled to keep up with that. I go back to my original statement which is a lot of men just should not be married because they're not going to find one person that over a long-term will acquiesce and put their various needs below the needs of a man's high sex drive which once you have a family and all the responsibilities that come with it simply isn't going to be on the top of your priority list much less your desire list.
> 
> And my other point is that it is a recent phenomenon that men think they should acquiesce to it. Not since caveman days has there been so much entitlement. There are more important things in life. It's just really narcissistic to build your life around getting someone else to satisfy your horniness and making that the priority in whatever partnership you have.
> 
> Hey maybe there's something in the water. I don't know. Sex is supposed to be mutually fun for as long as that lasts and not a duty.


Oh lord. LOL! So a husband that wants sex is now a narcissist???? Nope.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It hurts to hit the cervix.


It also hurts to get poked by the IUD removal string thingie.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> In the end, sexual desire and expectations must be managed or it can completely take over your life and thought process.


Yes!



TXTrini said:


> If men as a whole are so horny they'll kick their lower D wives to the curb for not meeting their every desire, where are ALL these men going to find partners? Will you all be ok sharing a small pool of very HD women?


So I hadn’t really decided what I would do. It seems stupid to get married again and I have several acquaintances that did exactly that and ended up divorced multiple times and each time they took serious financial hits.

If you’re not happy though like to the state of maybe mental instability you maybe need to do stupid things just to fix your brain. Not sure...

“Every desire” is maybe also a bit of a stretch. For me the fix was to go from 0.5x a week to slightly over 5x and with significantly better quality than maybe we have ever had. I would probably prefer more like 10-14x a week, so this isn’t exactly my ideal circumstance but as you say if you’re not consumed by it and your brain works then it’s fine.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CharlieParker said:


> It also hurts to get poked by the IUD removal string thingie.


I hated that thing. The IUD also had a negative impact on my wife's sex drive and she wasn't even using it for birth control. She had it for 1 year to try to address a medical issue.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CharlieParker said:


> It also hurts to get poked by the IUD removal string thingie.


Yeah!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Ok, so there's this debate as to unrealistic expectations from porn... So far, only men are getting blamed and women are "suffering" the extra demands. As a very HD woman (from an early age) who also had a sexless marriage for over a decade, I understand how rejection feels and used porn to meet my base needs at times.
> 
> I came across it very early as a kid (before the internet) and always had a very high drive, I'm not sure if porn influenced it, or was responsible. It helped me to be more choosy about my partners, b/c I didn't want to run through a bunch, which would have been too easy for me to do. When the internet came out, cybersex was an outlet for things I didn't do IRL, for the same reason, no desire to run through men, I had stashes of non-floppy pics on floppy disks  Of course, I did not pursue this outlet while married, I respect my vows.
> 
> ...


I hope this all doesn't constitute a continuing TJ, but imagine TIH will reel it in if so. I haven't gotten the sense that either gender were kicking the LD partner to the curb because of drive difference. My wife and I have changed dynamics several times over our life together. I was HD (relative to her) when we met, during pregnancy she would pull ahead. After childbirth the dynamic changed again. I had major health issues (cancer) and was LLD for about a year. With menopause the dynamic shifter again. Finally with HRT, she became HD (relative to me). Neither of us EVER considered parting because of drive differences. Whoever happened to be "LD" always put out the effort to accomodate the other. Neither of us felt "entitled", whatever the hell that means in this context. We have been in this for the long haul since day one.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yes!
> 
> So I hadn’t really decided what I would do. It seems stupid to get married again and I have several acquaintances that did exactly that and ended up divorced multiple times and each time they took serious financial hits.
> 
> ...


Ok, so you're happy with more frequency, but if you got your ideal or close, what would you want next? People generally always want more.

That's what I meant about managing expectations and mindset. If I let my mind wander too much, no one man will ever satisfy mjne.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> This feels a bit weird to ask but I do mean it seriously. Can your wife orgasm from penetration alone if the experience is good enough or long enough, etc. or does she still need clitoral stimulation either by vibrator or something else (hand, body part of choice, a different type of toy)? I’m just focused on this a lot lately because I’ve never been able to orgasm with just vaginal penetration alone, no matter the circumstances. A majority of women don’t, but I wish I was one of the lucky ones who could. I think vaginal penetration makes the orgasm feel better but it won’t give me one all on its own.


Personal experience is most women do need clitoral stimulation during PIV to orgasm. And that PIV orgasms are outstanding. I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know here.

Whether clitoral stimulation comes during PIV or doggy with my or her fingers, or oral plus vibrator dildo, the stimulation is always there in our encounters.

Pre M, many women, I always ensured the stimulation was there as option by me or her.

Women on top and pelvic grinding was/is always the best was to get both going.

In younger days where women could put their heels by their ears was always a great way to get missionary both types of stimulation going.


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> I haven't gotten the sense that either gender were kicking the LD partner to the curb because of drive difference.


Uhm, there are a few threads of people doing just that...


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> One thing I noticed in these ongoing discussions about sex is that all that seems to get talked about is penis and oral. If you are overlooking using your fingers to get the woman off in combination with other activities, that is where you're making your biggest mistake.


A good water softener in your home makes for very slippery hands and a lot a trembling legs in the shower. It’s one of the most overlooked sex accessories.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Ok, so you're happy with more frequency, but if you got your ideal or close, what would you want next? People generally always want more.
> 
> That's what I meant about managing expectations and mindset. If I let my mind wander too much, no one man will ever satisfy mjne.


I don’t think my appetite is without limit. There is a limit to it, I’m not at it yet but I’m also at an equilibrium where if nothing changes I am good and stable.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> I don’t think my appetite is without limit. There is a limit to it, I’m not at it yet but I’m also at an equilibrium where if nothing changes I am good and stable.


I'd be content with that, especially with a true partner in every way. I'm hoping my relationship comes close to that, b/c I really like the man's principles and personality. You're a lucky man.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I'd be content with that, especially with a true partner in every way. I'm hoping my relationship comes close to that, b/c I really like the man's principles and personality. You're a lucky man.


I am generally lucky but I also believe you can make luck. But yeah she’s pretty great!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Ok, so there's this debate as to unrealistic expectations from porn... So far, only men are getting blamed and women are "suffering" the extra demands. As a very HD woman (from an early age) who also had a sexless marriage for over a decade, I understand how rejection feels and used porn to meet my base needs at times.
> 
> I came across it very early as a kid (before the internet) and always had a very high drive, I'm not sure if porn influenced it, or was responsible. It helped me to be more choosy about my partners, b/c I didn't want to run through a bunch, which would have been too easy for me to do. When the internet came out, cybersex was an outlet for things I didn't do IRL, for the same reason, no desire to run through men, I had stashes of non-floppy pics on floppy disks  Of course, I did not pursue this outlet while married, I respect my vows.
> 
> ...


And women don't usually get as invested in it for various reasons, one being they simply aren't usually as visual.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Do you think that it has a lasting effect? For example if I stop pounding energy drinks (or in my case coffee and green tea extract) do I crash or does it have a lingering effect?
> 
> I ask because one of the revelations I had about my porn use was, “What if instead of viewing this and spanking it could my wife could provide it?” So I shut it down completely.
> 
> ...


I doubt it. There could be some withdrawal for some but I would imagine you'll revert to your natural sex drive which might be high.

You just won't know what your natural state is while porn is involved, and of course taking care of yourself helps immensely.

Here's a story based on my energy drink analogy.....

When we were still working in the office I had gotten in the elevator with a woman who worked on my floor.

She remarked that she was on her 4th cup of coffee. I mentioned that I didn't drink coffee....she then asked if I drank energy drinks. When I said no she said "so are you just high on life?".

I imagine her energy level would've been a lot lower without all that coffee. Or maybe she just needed to get off the coffee and take better care of herself in general.

But imagine her pounding 4 cups of coffee and then berating her non coffee drinking friends for having less energy.

As it turns out I still had more energy then her because I take care of myself.

I really like your story of getting off porn and working on becoming a man your wife wants to initiate with, or at least one she responds to.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Nor are most men who claim they are.


I can't remember where I heard it, think some comedian, but he said men can lie about the size of their package because he's never seen a woman carrying a measuring tape. I've also never really known a woman who was a good judge of such things. You can say you are whatever inches and she might just take your word for it. I think that's been going around for a long time now.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I really like your story of getting off porn and working on becoming a man your wife wants to initiate with, or at least one she responds to.


The thought experiment was very helpful. She’s great and I know she likes to have sex in general so what happened?

We had an amazing day today.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Another member here recently started a thread asking how he can do cunnilingus better and I recommended a porn for the guy. There were a few people who agreed and someone even said it was the best tutorial ever. So, evidently, there is value in learning some things from porn. I think that men understand this and just make use of it. 

The problem seems to be some ladies take umbrage at the idea that THEY could also learn a thing or two from porn, and instead say that it just raises men's expectations. Now, I do agree that it might have an effect on expectations but most of the stuff being debated isn't even all that difficult. Showing enthusiasm? Of course a guy wants his woman to show enthusiasm, that's the most absolutely basic sexual concept there is and it's not hard to do. 

Ladies, while porn might be raising men's expectations a bit, most of it is NOT unrealistic. I can assure you, plenty of ladies are already doing that stuff without us having to fight with them over it. So, if showing enthusiasm is too much, then I wouldn't be surprised if your man isn't happy with the bedroom activities.


----------



## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> Another member here recently started a thread asking how he can do cunnilingus better and I recommended a porn for the guy. There were a few people who agreed and someone even said it was the best tutorial ever. So, evidently, there is value in learning some things from porn. I think that men understand this and just make use of it.
> 
> The problem seems to be some ladies take umbrage at the idea that THEY could also learn a thing or two from porn, and instead say that it just raises men's expectations. Now, I do agree that it might have an effect on expectations but most of the stuff being debated isn't even all that difficult. Showing enthusiasm? Of course a guy wants his woman to show enthusiasm, that's the most absolutely basic sexual concept there is and it's not hard to do.
> 
> Ladies, while porn might be raising men's expectations a bit, most of it is NOT unrealistic. I can assure you, plenty of ladies are already doing that stuff without us having to fight with them over it. So, if showing enthusiasm is too much, then I wouldn't be surprised if your man isn't happy with the bedroom activities.


I would agree especially if you are watching homemade amateur stuff. In reality I think most people hate the fake pro stuff anyway. But watching some couple that might be your same age and same body style could be beneficial as well as enjoyable. I think it would be fun too!


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And women don't usually get as invested in it for various reasons, one being they simply aren't usually as visual.


I'm including erotic stories in the porn category, btw. So not as visual, but definitely porn. I am visual if the view's great  


Enigma32 said:


> I can't remember where I heard it, think some comedian, but he said men can lie about the size of their package because he's never seen a woman carrying a measuring tape. I've also never really known a woman who was a good judge of such things. You can say you are whatever inches and she might just take your word for it. I think that's been going around for a long time now.


I'm one of those women who's a great judge dimensions...


----------



## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> The thought experiment was very helpful. She’s great and I know she likes to have sex in general so what happened?
> 
> We had an amazing day today.


Me too  
See you guys in a few days!


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Enigma32 said:


> Another member here recently started a thread asking how he can do cunnilingus better and I recommended a porn for the guy. There were a few people who agreed and someone even said it was the best tutorial ever. So, evidently, there is value in learning some things from porn. I think that men understand this and just make use of it.
> 
> The problem seems to be some ladies take umbrage at the idea that THEY could also learn a thing or two from porn, and instead say that it just raises men's expectations. Now, I do agree that it might have an effect on expectations but most of the stuff being debated isn't even all that difficult. Showing enthusiasm? Of course a guy wants his woman to show enthusiasm, that's the most absolutely basic sexual concept there is and it's not hard to do.
> 
> Ladies, while porn might be raising men's expectations a bit, most of it is NOT unrealistic. I can assure you, plenty of ladies are already doing that stuff without us having to fight with them over it. So, if showing enthusiasm is too much, then I wouldn't be surprised if your man isn't happy with the bedroom activities.


I’ve studied porn for BJ techniques. I never had an aversion to giving them but I never thought I was all that great at them (no complaints ever received, just something in my head) and I didn’t love it because my neck would always seize up after awhile and I would make this “in pain” face that made my husband want me to stop. Which made it seem like I thought it was a tortuous chore and that was not what I was going for.

I figured I must be doing something wrong so why not watch and see if I could correct it. Actual technique I found I was already doing it, what was missing was the show of enthusiasm. I had been too in my own head about how I sucked at it. So I added eye contact and I added moaning (not that gross gagging). The occasional moaning had the benefit of me being able to take a breath without changing pace and he enjoyed the vibration. He enjoyed it more and finished faster which prevented my neck from hurting. It was acting at first, but the results gave me confidence in what I was doing, which was a turn on, so the enthusiasm became real. Fake it til you make it I guess.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I just told my wife eye contact and lick the bottom and then use her hand on the rest. Then she turned into a demon and will crush my 🥜. I asked her if she watched or read any material on it and she said no she just followed what I said but certainly she put her own spice on it because I never said anything about the 🥜


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Porn is ubiquitous, yet all studies suggest that people having less sex now than in previous generations...But somehow there are still people out there thinking that porn is turning people into crazed and uncontrollably demanding sex fiends...

IME, porn doesn't raise expectations any more than me watching an NBA game makes me feel bad about my lousy 3 point FG efficiency...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I'm including erotic stories in the porn category, btw. So not as visual, but definitely porn. I am visual if the view's great
> 
> I'm one of those women who's a great judge dimensions...


Boy I tell you what I've never seen any porn that I thought the men were attractive in.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> I'm including erotic stories in the porn category, btw. So not as visual, but definitely porn. I am visual if the view's great


I am forced to win ladies over with my personality. Obviously, I am doubly screwed.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Enigma32 said:


> Another member here recently started a thread asking how he can do cunnilingus better and I recommended a porn for the guy. There were a few people who agreed and someone even said it was the best tutorial ever. So, evidently, there is value in learning some things from porn. I think that men understand this and just make use of it.
> 
> The problem seems to be some ladies take umbrage at the idea that THEY could also learn a thing or two from porn, and instead say that it just raises men's expectations. Now, I do agree that it might have an effect on expectations but most of the stuff being debated isn't even all that difficult. Showing enthusiasm? Of course a guy wants his woman to show enthusiasm, that's the most absolutely basic sexual concept there is and it's not hard to do.
> 
> Ladies, while porn might be raising men's expectations a bit, most of it is NOT unrealistic. I can assure you, plenty of ladies are already doing that stuff without us having to fight with them over it. So, if showing enthusiasm is too much, then I wouldn't be surprised if your man isn't happy with the bedroom activities.


The porn I've seen would be a terrible tutorial for cunnillingus.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Anastasia6 said:


> The porn I've seen would be a terrible tutorial for cunnillingus.


Maube you are watching the wrong stuff? 

I haven;t seen the thread referenced but I recall years ago everyone was talking about a video by the mature porn star Nina Hartley that she details how to give a woman oral. I think having her and another woman exhange oral certainly helped the video's populalrity.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Maube you are watching the wrong stuff?
> 
> I haven;t seen the thread referenced but I recall years ago everyone was talking about a video by the mature porn star Nina Hartley that she details how to give a woman oral. I think having her and another woman exhange oral certainly helped the video's populalrity.


Sure that was an actual tutorial from the sounds of it. And the person giving the tutorial was a woman. But in general, general porn isn't a tutorial on how to get a woman off.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> The porn I've seen would be a terrible tutorial for cunnillingus.


All women are different so the best way to learn is to try it out and watch your partners reactions. If his wife can tell him what feels good that's a big help.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Very early on she showed me how to reliably get her off using my fingers. I use basically the same technique with my tongue.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> Sure that was an actual tutorial from the sounds of it. And the person giving the tutorial was a woman. But in general, general porn isn't a tutorial on how to get a woman off.


Because generally speaking, much of porn is geared towards men. It's actually a tutorial on how to get men off.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> Because generally speaking, much of porn is geared towards men. It's actually a tutorial on how to get men off.


good point , but someone going looking for sex ed from porn is like someone going to a collage for ed on how to set up your own business


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Because generally speaking, much of porn is geared towards men. It's actually a tutorial on how to get men off.


The men in my life have never seemed to have trouble getting off, with the exception of my ex who had ED he wouldn't deal with and I got tired of never being able to have sex without catering to his fetish. And even that was hit or miss.

It turns out that a willing and engaged female is enough for a lot of men without ED or a porn issue...at least IME.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> The men in my life have never seemed to have trouble getting off, with the exception of my ex who had ED he wouldn't deal with and I got tired of never being able to have sex without catering to his fetish. And even that was hit or miss.
> 
> *It turns out that a willing and engaged female is enough* for a lot of men without ED or a porn issue...at least IME.


Sure, a willing female is pretty much all it takes for a guy to get off. It's not rocket science. Just showing up will get the job done but it's nothing to brag about. That's why you see guys complaining about the starfish sex or ladies just laying there, whatever. The dude still gets off but it's not exactly a memorable experience and it might lead to some dissatisfaction later on down the road.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Boy I tell you what I've never seen any porn that I thought the men were attractive in.


Just don't look above the neck. The pretty ones are gay though 🤣


Enigma32 said:


> I am forced to win ladies over with my personality. Obviously, I am doubly screwed.


You only need one. Sounds like you've got one locked down.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> You only need one. Sounds like you've got one locked down.


Way to ruin my self deprecating humor. No fun.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Way to ruin my self deprecating humor. No fun.


🤣🤣🤣
Anytime!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> Just don't look above the neck. The pretty ones are gay though 🤣
> 
> You only need one. Sounds like you've got one locked down.


Above the neck is what I find most attractive. All those guys are so skeevy.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> It feels like sometimes women just can’t win.


I think we can say that for the men as well. We have seen plenty of women upset that the husband won't initiate, or really any of the things you listed in your OP



> There is much dispute over porn and it’s effect on sexuality. Do y’all think it has slanted how men view sexual relations? The over the top moaning and groaning?
> The images of women acting as she is devouring the best steak she has ever eaten in her life? *That crap just isn’t real* but somehow I feel it has made women out to be inferior if they don’t perform that way especially after decades of marriage. It is a bit disheartening to be honest.
> 
> Thoughts?


That isn't made up. Unrealistically combined together for sure though. But I have know plenty of women for whom giving a bj is one of the greatest joys of their sex life. Yeah porn has a lot of unrealistic aspects to it; the frequency of orgasms, especially if men supposedly cum more than one in a session, the supposed duration, the combination of different acts. Ah, the power of editing. But I don't think I have encountered anything shown on porn that there aren't women who really enjoys this act or that one.

I know that I don't expect any given woman to act like we see in pornos. There are plays or acts, that if she enjoys them, I'd love for her to do, and if they don't outright repulse her, to at least try to see if she might like it. 

I also want my women to initiate as much as I do. I know I want to feel desired enough for her to want to jump my bones, as much as she wants to be in a more passive role and be shown she is desired. 

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I get that…I just wonder if what we have gotten to the point that every encounter has to be this over the top endeavor. When my kids were smaller I would signal to my husband to come into the bathroom for a quickie. I mean 5 minutes bang it out get it done quickie. Everyone orgasms, no lingerie, no toys, no over the top screaming.


This is some of the best sex as well. And yeah even the porn scenes of a "quickie" are longer than more real quickies. I'll agree that if anyone is thinking that all sexual encounters need to be a hours long event with mind blowing orgasms, they are deluded. I'm not sure porn is the only source though. I've have encountered both men and women who boost about how long the session lasted. Kinda reminds me of a joke. Several guys were hanging out outside the hardware store, boating of their prowess with their women. "We did it 5 times last night," one boasted. "That's nothing. We did it 8 times last night," another bragged. "Please!," said the third, "10 is out minimum!" The old man who was usually sitting out in front of the store began laughing. "What are laughing at, gramps? How many time do you do it in a night?" Still chuckling, he replied, "Only once, but I do it right the first and don't have to try again."

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> If a woman ever moaned while doing that without some sort of simulation to herself I think I would actually laugh out loud.


I've encountered it, but when asked, many of the one knew said one of two things, if not both reasons. One was because they knew it would be a turn on for the man. The other was making those noises also added vibration and other sensations to the penis during the act. 

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> That is it! Like WT actual F? You have a loving woman but she doesn’t moan loud enough while performing oral sex. Poor, poor man.


From the description she was moaning too much and the guy wondered if he wasn't the only one and she was covering up.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Enigma32 said:


> Sure, a willing female is pretty much all it takes for a guy to get off. It's not rocket science. Just showing up will get the job done but it's nothing to brag about. That's why you see guys complaining about the starfish sex or ladies just laying there, whatever. The dude still gets off but it's not exactly a memorable experience and it might lead to some dissatisfaction later on down the road.


I think the key word though was "engaged." Someone who is present, and enthusiastic.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Now all you have to do is google the letter k and up pops a site. 😉





Cletus said:


> This porn has been brought to you by the letter 'k'.





SpinyNorman said:


> The Lost Episode of "Sesame Street".


Just watch out for the letter "Q"



Spoiler


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Sure, a willing female is pretty much all it takes for a guy to get off. It's not rocket science. Just showing up will get the job done but it's nothing to brag about. That's why you see guys complaining about the starfish sex or ladies just laying there, whatever. The dude still gets off but it's not exactly a memorable experience and it might lead to some dissatisfaction later on down the road.


First of all, I said a "willing and engaged" female. By definition if a female is engaged you're not getting starfish sex.

Second, how is it that porn can simultaneously be a non issue for the guy who is watching it in his relationship but also a place his wife should go to learn things?

If you think your wife should be getting pointers from porn then it is impacting your relationship. That might be ok if she is ok with it, but she may not be.

Lastly, I'll assume that you're speaking of professionals when you say women should be learning things. One of the biggest issues with professional porn is the depiction of men taking while giving very little and she still sonehow can't wait to jump him.

If us women are supposed to "get help" from porn where are you guys going to find out what we like? Mutual satisfaction is a pretty good basis for a continuing sex life.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> First of all, I said a "willing and engaged" female. By definition if a female is engaged you're not getting starfish sex.
> 
> Second, how is it that porn can simultaneously be a non issue for the guy who is watching it in his relationship but also a place his wife should go to learn things?
> 
> ...


You opened the door....😎😎

So what porn would a woman go to, to learn said stuff?

I'm kind of kidding, you didn't really say a woman *should* go to porn to learn.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> You opened the door....😎😎
> 
> So what porn would a woman go to, to learn said stuff?
> 
> I'm kind of kidding, you didn't really say a woman *should* go to porn to learn.


In my defense I didn't....I was responding to a post suggesting that since porn was about pleasing men women should go there to learn some things.

That's a question for the poster of that claim 😀


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> If us women are supposed to "get help" from porn where are you guys going to find out what we like? *Mutual satisfaction is a pretty good basis for a continuing sex life.*


Sure it is. With this in mind, I do find it a bit ironic that the idea some ladies could actually learn a bit and improve things is vehemently rejected here. Generally speaking, men take pride in pleasing a woman. That's why there is a thread here now with a man asking how he can learn to go down on his woman better. People suggested books and porn for advice and he never rejected those ideas, did he? So, why do some ladies reject the same advice?


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> So what porn would a woman go to, to learn said stuff?


Whatever you happen to like, man. Ever watch porn with a woman, show her the sort of thing you are into and have her try to do it to make you happy? I have. When the sex talks start and you talk about likes and dislikes, I have found that videos work better than descriptions. As long as you have a girl with a good attitude about that sort of thing. And if you don't, then you're probably gonna have issues with her outside the bedroom anyway.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Enigma32 said:


> Whatever you happen to like, man. Ever watch porn with a woman, show her the sort of thing you are into and have her try to do it to make you happy? I have. When the sex talks start and you talk about likes and dislikes, I have found that videos work better than descriptions. As long as you have a girl with a good attitude about that sort of thing. And if you don't, then you're probably gonna have issues with her outside the bedroom anyway.


Many many years ago I dated a girl who wanted to watch one of the Kama Sutra videos. It was x-rated but not hardcore stuff. But still showed all the details and was erotic to watch. We watched a few times and then would try out the positions we saw while we did. Very fun stuff!

Over 30 years ago and I still remember that fun! Mmmmm!


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Swedish porn from the 60s/70s was the best, of course by Swedish law the "actors" weren't allowed to be naked so they all wore socks.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Above the neck is what I find most attractive. All those guys are so skeevy.


🤣 🤣 🤣
I totally get it. I'm a sucker for some hot stuff too luckily my idea of hot stuff is variable. Pretty and empty-headed don't cut it though...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TXTrini said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣
> I totally get it. I'm a sucker for some hot stuff too luckily my idea of hot stuff is variable. Pretty and empty-headed don't cut it though...


Picky picky picky.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Picky picky picky.


Well it ain't like I'm going collecting, you only need one good one, right?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> 🤣 🤣 🤣
> I totally get it. I'm a sucker for some hot stuff too luckily my idea of hot stuff is variable. Pretty and empty-headed don't cut it though...


Ha ha...remember Vegas Vacation where cousin Vicky is looking at the hot guys at the pool?

She says they ain't much to talk to but if you need a night away from your cat they'll do just fine 😅😅😅


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

CharlieParker said:


> Swedish porn from the 60s/70s was the best, of course by Swedish law the "actors" weren't allowed to be naked so they all wore socks.


Vintage Italian or glamour porn is all about the clothes fashion. That's what I watch that for, time to time.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Hey when did we get "thumbs up" icons when we "like" something? New within the past day or so, right?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I get that…I just wonder if what we have gotten to the point that every encounter has to be this over the top endeavor. When my kids were smaller I would signal to my husband to come into the bathroom for a quickie. I mean 5 minutes bang it out get it done quickie. Everyone orgasms, no lingerie, no toys, no over the top screaming. 😂


That's what I like about your posts. To the point, all good, everyone has a great time!


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ha ha...remember Vegas Vacation where cousin Vicky is looking at the hot guys at the pool?
> 
> She says they ain't much to talk to but if you need a night away from your cat they'll do just fine 😅😅😅


I feel so used... 
When I was unloading liquour from trucks into higher end hotel bars, I got brought into the bar by female patrons on a regular basis. 

And they weren't into discussing my worldviews but were more about getting me out of my jeans. 

Now I get it 🤣🤣🤣.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Ha ha...remember Vegas Vacation where cousin Vicky is looking at the hot guys at the pool?
> 
> She says they ain't much to talk to but if you need a night away from your cat they'll do just fine 😅😅😅


They best keep their traps shut then
🤣 🤣 🤣

Seriously though, dumb and pretty = ladybonerkiller for me. I need sexy, intelligent banter. I love to shock the bf, just to see him blush. He's a southern gentleman with a naughty streak.


CountryMike said:


> I feel so used...
> When I was unloading liquour from trucks into higher end hotel bars, I got brought into the bar by female patrons on a regular basis.
> 
> And they weren't into discussing my worldviews but were more about getting me out of my jeans.
> ...


Awww, but you're such a great conversationalist!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

TXTrini said:


> They best keep their traps shut then
> 🤣 🤣 🤣
> 
> Seriously though, dumb and pretty = ladybonerkiller for me. I need sexy, intelligent banter. I love to shock the bf, just to see him blush. He's a southern gentleman with a naughty streak.
> ...


Yeah. ...I like good looking men but I'd sacrifice some looks for intelligence.

No ugly dudes though....I keep myself so I think I'm entitled to some standards 😀


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah. ...I like good looking men but I'd sacrifice some looks for intelligence.
> 
> No ugly dudes though....I keep myself so I think I'm entitled to some standards 😀


I don't think about it as sacrificing looks, I find attractiveness varies with personality. Intelligence and humor really do it for me, so once a guy is doable I'm interested if we mesh otherwise. So that same person can become more/less attractive as I get to know them.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Doability is high on my list but I think it would be impossible for me to have a romantic relationship with a lady who isn’t smart. One off sex sure, but wanting to be around someone a lot who can’t understand abstract concepts, nope.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> All women are different so the best way to learn is to try it out and watch your partners reactions. If his wife can tell him what feels good that's a big help.


I’m no expert at it, but found this to be very true. I don’t like giving it to hardly anyone apparently


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> Doability is high on my list but I think it would be impossible for me to have a romantic relationship with a lady who isn’t smart. One off sex sure, but wanting to be around someone a lot who can’t understand abstract concepts, nope.


One of the women I’ve loved the Most was extremely intelligent, and I found that the extra intelligence didn’t add much to the relationship. I had always thought it would. I’ll take a person who is more toward the middle of the spectrum in pretty much every mental characteristic over someone that’s high in a couple, every time from now on.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> One of the women I’ve loved the Most was extremely intelligent, and I found that the extra intelligence didn’t add much to the relationship. I had always thought it would. I’ll take a person who is more toward the middle of the spectrum in pretty much every mental characteristic over someone that’s high in a couple, every time from now on.


For me it’d be subtractive. For example if I used the mental equivalent logic of say an algebraic factoring to explain something and I get back a look of bewilderment. Over time it would bother me, hey this gal doesn’t have it upstairs and I’d start to get frustrated.


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Evinrude58 said:


> One of the women I’ve loved the Most was extremely intelligent, and I found that the extra intelligence didn’t add much to the relationship. I had always thought it would. I’ll take a person who is more toward the middle of the spectrum in pretty much every mental characteristic over someone that’s high in a couple, every time from now on.


Doesn't even factor in for me. As long as my GF isn't a stone cold idiot, I'm fine. I have noticed it's the smarter ladies that go for me though. Despite a lack of much real formal education (which I often find overrated anyway) my GF is fluent in 5 languages, mostly self-taught. I just don't actively look for smarter ladies.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Enigma32 said:


> Doesn't even factor in for me. As long as my GF isn't a stone cold idiot, I'm fine. I have noticed it's the smarter ladies that go for me though. Despite a lack of much real formal education (which I often find overrated anyway) my GF is fluent in 5 languages, mostly self-taught. I just don't actively look for smarter ladies.


She sounds lovely and accomplished Enigma! Education does not = intelligence, some of the smartest people I know are not formally educated, and some of the dumbest have all kinds of degrees 🤣 

After dealing with an insecure partner who preferred not to talk to me, b/c he couldn't "win" conversations, it's rather freeing to be able to talk without self-censorship. I suppose you could say I like the sexy nerds 😁, regardless of their field of interest. 

To give you an idea of what I mean by "winning", my ex hung out with much younger people so he could be big fish in a small pond. He wasn't stupid or anything, just very intellectually lazy and very much a poser.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> Doesn't even factor in for me. As long as my GF isn't a stone cold idiot, I'm fine. I have noticed it's the smarter ladies that go for me though. Despite a lack of much real formal education (which I often find overrated anyway) my GF is fluent in 5 languages, mostly self-taught. I just don't actively look for smarter ladies.


 there are many types of intelligence having a paper that says you were good at picking up information in school is only one of them , 
and schools are only there to make workers they teach you to get a job not to make your own , school in geared against the risk taker 
many people stay in the school system because they don't know what to do or make of themselves


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> there are many types of intelligence having a paper that says you were good at picking up information in school is only one of them ,
> and schools are only there to make workers they teach you to get a job not to make your own , school in geared against the risk taker
> many people stay in the school system because they don't know what to do or make of themselves


I don't even think most degrees mean you are good at picking up information, they only mean you showed up enough to college for them to send you the paper. One of my old neighbors is a sweet girl but an actual idiot and she now has a master's degree in education which she obtained from an online school. She still manages to make basic grammar mistakes on her social media posts. She's a teacher now, so there is that. At least she's nice and means well.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Enigma32 said:


> I don't even think most degrees mean you are good at picking up information, they only mean you showed up enough to college for them to send you the paper. One of my old neighbors is a sweet girl but an actual idiot and she now has a master's degree in education which she obtained from an online school. She still manages to make basic grammar mistakes on her social media posts. She's a teacher now, so there is that. At least she's nice and means well.


 I left school at 14 and was not there often before 
my first school was a bit like something out of little house on the prairie , and the master had very closed mind on many things , 
I always felt i thought him a lot 
HE WAS VERY HAPPY TO MET ME LAST YEAR when i was home even though I left school not been able read or wright 
I had a brain disorder and what they thought in school did not interest me 
I educated my self through wanting to find out all about what interested me 
I bought my business and happy to do my own thing I can turn my hand to most things 
it was not until I HAD CHILDREN that I found out what my disorder was and they both have the same 
it was explained to me that when they see the black bord you see words they see letters like if you see a bar-code
their brain has to work much faster to understand and brake it down , 
very tiring after the end of a day the mind is ready to shut down , but in other ways look on the world and how things work in a very different way , 
my kids use their phones in ways you have no idea to help them get around their handicap 

in teaching my self i joined forums like this and was often insulted by people that like to put down others because I don't use things like full stops or some times I wright as the thoughts are coming into my mind 
but I put that down to them been educated but not been polite and not able use their education to keep from getting hung up on things that had little to do with the subject 

a good friend on one of these forums had a signature on every post saying " dyslexic not stupid "


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


We have a tendency to focus on the things we’re not getting — or that we _think_ we’re not getting — instead of the things that we are.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> We have a tendency to focus on the things we’re not getting — or that we _think_ we’re not getting — instead of the things that we are.


There are some people here who immediately draw harsh one sided conclusions. If someone tries to post something trying to improve his or her life or even just vent the conclusion is immediately, "you are wining", "you underappreciate what you have", "you represent people who never have enough", "look at others, they don't have 1/5 of what you have", etc.

If you being otherwise generally healthy go to a doctor with non-life-threatening condition, for instance your arm itches, but that condition bothers you and prevents you from living normally, imagine the doctor examines you and then says: "it does not matter your arm itches. You are otherwise very healthy so why are you complaining? There are other people with heart condition, cancer and other life-threatening conditions who may die tomorrow. And you came to me with arm itching? I am not going to treat you. Good-bye!"

Yes, there are people who have very happy relationships, happy marriages, overall vibrant sex lives. However, there is something that bothers them or something they want to improve or just vent to someone. It does not mean they devalue what they have. Have some empathy.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

romantic_dreamer said:


> There are some people here who immediately draw harsh one sided conclusions. If someone tries to post something trying to improve his or her life or even just vent the conclusion is immediately, "you are wining", "you underappreciate what you have", "you represent people who never have enough", "look at others, they don't have 1/5 of what you have", etc.
> 
> If you being otherwise generally healthy go to a doctor with non-life-threatening condition, for instance your arm itches, but that condition bothers you and prevents you from living normally, imagine the doctor examines you and then says: "it does not matter your arm itches. You are otherwise very healthy so why are you complaining? There are other people with heart condition, cancer and other life-threatening conditions who may die tomorrow. And you came to me with arm itching? I am not going to treat you. Good-bye!"
> 
> Yes, there are people who have very happy relationships, happy marriages, overall vibrant sex lives. However, there is something that bothers them or something they want to improve or just vent to someone. It does not mean they devalue what they have. Have some empathy.


Was my statement incorrect?

How much empathy should I have?

What would my empathy be worth to you? Or to anyone?

What difference would my empathy make in your life? Or in anyone’s?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

i agree that this is a home of people that see things from one side often .

I don't think you can change it ,

many are even of the type we see no wrong so there is no wrong and Hollywood is responsible for every thing and they are going to change our perfect world , 




romantic_dreamer said:


> There are some people here who immediately draw harsh one sided conclusions. If someone tries to post something trying to improve his or her life or even just vent the conclusion is immediately, "you are wining", "you underappreciate what you have", "you represent people who never have enough", "look at others, they don't have 1/5 of what you have", etc.
> 
> If you being otherwise generally healthy go to a doctor with non-life-threatening condition, for instance your arm itches, but that condition bothers you and prevents you from living normally, imagine the doctor examines you and then says: "it does not matter your arm itches. You are otherwise very healthy so why are you complaining? There are other people with heart condition, cancer and other life-threatening conditions who may die tomorrow. And you came to me with arm itching? I am not going to treat you. Good-bye!"
> 
> Yes, there are people who have very happy relationships, happy marriages, overall vibrant sex lives. However, there is something that bothers them or something they want to improve or just vent to someone. It does not mean they devalue what they have. Have some empathy.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

GusPolinski said:


> We have a tendency to focus on the things we’re not getting — or that we _think_ we’re not getting — instead of the things that we are.


You certainly have a point, Gus. I know I’ve questioned so many things in the past with my own marriage. 

Thing is, that is why I like reading people’s stories and experiences here. So many times I thought I was crazy. Maybe what I’m living is normal? Maybe everything is alright? 

It really wasn’t until I came here that I realized that things weren’t alright. I wasn’t alone. People here had the same problems I did. I felt vindicated, especially when reading words from someone else that escaped my own mouth on multiple occasions. In a way, it gave me the courage to fight for what I wanted. Or I could say that my marriage had the potential for being so much more and I wanted my wife and I to work towards that. 


I do understand though that one has to be careful and not think the grass is greener on the other side. I’m just never going to stop trying to improve what I already have and love.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


My story is being in a sexless marriage for the last 3 years ever since the kid was born.
Maybe had 3-4 grudging sexual encounters during this time?

Big contrast to before the kid, where sex was plentiful and intense, and we both initiated sex.

Nowadays, I almost have to beg for sex, and given my score count, you can guess how my success rate was.
And when we do it, it's with great reluctance on her part. She'd just lie there like a dead fish hoping that I'd get off quick, so that is a real turn off for me.

It's a real problem when my wife doesn't enjoy sex, because I see it as definitely a two way thing. If she's not enjoying it, I can hardly enjoy it myself. So those few encounters to be honest, I didn't cum. I just gave up half way and said "well, that's enough of that".

Around a year or so ago, I said "look, I'll stop asking for sex. I want you to be the one letting me know that you want it next time". She happily said "sure". Haha. Yeah, we haven't had sex since.

I don't want a divorce, but over the years, I find myself more and more open to the idea. It's hard to meet halfway because there IS no half way. I want daily fulfilling sex where we BOTH enjoy it, she wants nothing to do about it. Right now, I'm miserable while she thinks the world is all as it should be. Halfway should involve both parties getting a bit of what they want, but for us, it will only involve me still not having what I want, and she definitely not having what she wants.

Also with that whole oral thing, I've never asked for it. Maybe being asian, we're a bit more on the conservative side so the penis only goes in the vagina - nowhere else. Sorry to be boring. My personal theory - I don't really enjoy the smell and taste of a vagina, so I don't really have the right to expect the reciprocal.

Also I don't enjoy the taste of my own penis (or anyone else's penis, for that matter), so after a blowjob, and I can smell penis, that would also turn me off lol!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

stamina said:


> My story is being in a sexless marriage for the last 3 years ever since the kid was born.
> Maybe had 3-4 grudging sexual encounters during this time?
> 
> Big contrast to before the kid, where sex was plentiful and intense, and we both initiated sex.


Postnatal depression, may be a significant catalyst for the status quo. That said your very significant sexual limitations in terms of what you are willing to do, certainly don't do you any favours.



> Nowadays, I almost have to beg for sex, and given my score count, you can guess how my success rate was.


Begging someone for sex does not inspire sexual desire.



> And when we do it, it's with great reluctance on her part. She'd just lie there like a dead fish hoping that I'd get off quick, so that is a real turn off for me.
> 
> It's a real problem when my wife doesn't enjoy sex, because I see it as definitely a two way thing. If she's not enjoying it, I can hardly enjoy it myself. So those few encounters to be honest, I didn't cum. I just gave up half way and said "well, that's enough of that".


It is a real problem. Perhaps you could try working on becoming a better sexual partner, which means making sex a pleasure for her and not just you.



> Around a year or so ago, I said "look, I'll stop asking for sex. I want you to be the one letting me know that you want it next time". She happily said "sure". Haha. Yeah, we haven't had sex since.


Count your blessings, since she has saved both of you from more wretched experiences.



> I don't want a divorce, but over the years, I find myself more and more open to the idea. It's hard to meet halfway because there IS no half way. I want daily fulfilling sex where we BOTH enjoy it, she wants nothing to do about it. Right now, I'm miserable while she thinks the world is all as it should be. Halfway should involve both parties getting a bit of what they want, but for us, it will only involve me still not having what I want, and she definitely not having what she wants.


You would do well to understand, that one cannot negotiate sexual desire.



> Also with that whole oral thing, I've never asked for it. Maybe being asian, we're a bit more on the conservative side so the penis only goes in the vagina - nowhere else. Sorry to be boring. My personal theory - I don't really enjoy the smell and taste of a vagina, so I don't really have the right to expect the reciprocal.
> 
> Also I don't enjoy the taste of my own penis (or anyone else's penis, for that matter), so after a blowjob, and I can smell penis, that would also turn me off lol!


Well given all that you have posted here and elsewhere, it is extremely likely your wife has faked orgasms with you, and probably has not really enjoyed much of the sex you have shared. Which has done both of you no favours. Then following having a child with you, in the face of such an extraordinarily boring sexual repertoire. She's just closed the gate, lest she have to suffer any more of it to no end.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> Postnatal depression, may be a significant catalyst for the status quo. That said your very significant sexual limitations in terms of what you are willing to do, certainly don't do you any favours.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is divorce my only tangible option in this scenario?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

stamina said:


> Is divorce my only tangible option in this scenario?


Read in this forum and any other forum that you may find through the internet of all the people that spent decades and decades trying and waiting, and/or did nothing until they were old to get out. by then not even them had the will to have sex anymore. hormones gone. Do you want to be one more of these people? because, in reality if you see the outcome for the big, big majority of all these people the no sex will be your end result. But, you are saying you do not want to divorce, then don't, but be certain of one thing: you will not get the sexual relationship that you're asking for. That ship has sailed, whether you want to accept it or not.

With my first wife I lasted three months. Yes, only three months. After those three months, I separated from her and divorce ensued. best thing that ever happened to me.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

stamina said:


> Is divorce my only tangible option in this scenario?


Divorce won't fix this.

The way you describe your own sexual limitations, it is clear that you suck as a sexual partner. So unless you fix yourself and become a better sexual partner, you will face the same issues no matter who you partner.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> Divorce won't fix this.
> 
> The way you describe your own sexual limitations, it is clear that you suck as a sexual partner. So unless you fix yourself and become a better sexual partner, you will face the same issues no matter who you partner.


Thanks. It is clear you seem to know my sexual performances so well, stranger!


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

stamina said:


> Thanks. It is clear you seem to know my sexual performances so well, stranger!


Ummmm…. I’m not sure where Personal is getting their interpretation of your words. I gather you either enjoy vanilla sex or that is all your wife would ever allow. I have a hard time saying “you are a terrible lover” from that. Whatever. People will see what they want to see.

I was able to save my marriage almost by a stroke of luck, but I know I wasn’t going to last much longer. Maybe another 2 years max. I wasn’t in a sexless marriage, but 2-4 times a month wasn’t good enough for me.

if I could do one thing over, I’d go back in time 15 years and tell myself to fix this with my wife and do it now. If you love your wife, then tell her this needs to be fixed. If she is willing to work on it, there are a multitude of therapies I’m sure plenty of members here can guide you to. If she doesn’t believe it needs to be fixed, then she’s being selfish and doesn’t care about you. At that point, do you want to stay with someone that doesn’t care about you and only cares about themselves?

I would advise to take action. Doesn’t matter what action, just do something. You are either helping her fix the problem or you are working on divorce papers.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Ummmm…. I’m not sure where Personal is getting their interpretation of your words. I gather you either enjoy vanilla sex or that is all your wife would ever allow. I have a hard time saying “you are a terrible lover” from that. Whatever. People will see what they want to see.
> 
> I was able to save my marriage almost by a stroke of luck, but I know I wasn’t going to last much longer. Maybe another 2 years max. I wasn’t in a sexless marriage, but 2-4 times a month wasn’t good enough for me.
> 
> ...


Maybe b/c he comes across as inhibited. Don't like the taste/smell of *****, and squeamish to smell his own ****.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Maybe b/c he comes across as inhibited. Don't like the taste/smell of _, and squeamish to smell his own ***_.


I still think making the jump to “bad sexual partner” is a stretch. Looks like his wife doesn’t want to do the same stuff - and he is referencing his culture as a reason why. Meh. Who am I to judge in this situation? I don’t know his culture. I’m a hopeless romantic American red neck from the Midwest. I love the smell and taste of the 🐱. To each their own.

if this is something his wife wants to explore, then he needs to ask. In which case, this is an easy problem to fix.

OP, if this is truly the problem, you best learn to love the smell and taste REAL quick. Look at it like beer. No one “enjoys” their first beer. It tastes funny. Have enough beer, it starts to taste better. Have even more and you start to desire the taste.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I still think making the jump to “bad sexual partner” is a stretch. Looks like his wife doesn’t want to do the same stuff - and he is referencing his culture as a reason why. Meh. Who am I to judge in this situation? I don’t know his culture. I’m a hopeless romantic American red neck from the Midwest. I love the smell and taste of the 🐱. To each their own.
> 
> if this is something his wife wants to explore, then he needs to ask. In which case, this is an easy problem to fix.
> 
> OP, if this is truly the problem, you best learn to love the smell and taste REAL quick. Look at it like beer. No one “enjoys” their first beer. It tastes funny. Have enough beer, it starts to taste better. Have even more and you start to desire the taste.


Something is totally off with his wife, but asking us isn't going to do anything. I suppose the whole sexless issue really triggers me, but there are some lazy and prudish men out there, that's all I'm gonna say...


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> Something is totally off with his wife, but asking us isn't going to do anything. I suppose the whole sexless issue really triggers me, but there are some lazy and prudish men out there, that's all I'm gonna say...


I've had a few useful and constructive suggestions around this forum, so thanks to those who have come around to help with genuine intent.

But yeah bro, for real - it's a cultural thing. I'm from a more conservative background. Don't know why this should trigger you or offend you in any way.

You do you. I will respect that. Expect you to do the same for me. And I've tried licking her down there. She didn't enjoy it either and found the act quite revolting. Again - it's probably cultural. But even if it wasn't, some respect, please.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Ummmm…. I’m not sure where Personal is getting their interpretation of your words. I gather you either enjoy vanilla sex or that is all your wife would ever allow. I have a hard time saying “you are a terrible lover” from that. Whatever. People will see what they want to see.
> 
> I was able to save my marriage almost by a stroke of luck, but I know I wasn’t going to last much longer. Maybe another 2 years max. I wasn’t in a sexless marriage, but 2-4 times a month wasn’t good enough for me.
> 
> ...


At this stage, with limited data, one can only fill the gaps with one's own experiences. They project.
If by what I wrote, it was the oral sex that triggered him, then he needs to grow up. Not everyone is as sexually adventurous.

Had a real good talk with her just then with some more tangible outcomes. Previously when I brought up the topic, it was just sweeping under the carpet with a "yeah sure we'll try, I guess". Now we're making plans to actually write down a list of potential issues and improvements that either of us can try out. Things including "let's try use lube" (we used to have a bottle at the start of dating but we found out we really didn't need it. I honestly think we both really enjoyed sex at one point), to "let's try some herbal supplements", to "okay, maybe we can both shed a few pounds". I know it's very against the dead bedroom book, but I am seeing a more positive and hands-on contribution on her. Maybe because this time I actually made it clear that this is a deal breaker. (Previously, I only said it was a big deal).


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

stamina said:


> I know it's very against the dead bedroom book


You fool! (Just kidding...)

Whatever you find works for you is good, maybe you can write a book!


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> You fool! (Just kidding...)
> 
> Whatever you find works for you is good, maybe you can write a book!


Gotta say though, it is a very enjoyable book and I've zipped through quite a chunk of it already. While some of the points do definitely appear to me as absolute drastic measures, it does raise some very legitimate points. Definitely gives me some food for thought.

I might start with cutting out the don't do's though.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

stamina said:


> I've had a few useful and constructive suggestions around this forum, so thanks to those who have come around to help with genuine intent.
> 
> But yeah bro, for real - it's a cultural thing. I'm from a more conservative background. Don't know why this should trigger you or offend you in any way.
> 
> You do you. I will respect that. Expect you to do the same for me. And I've tried licking her down there. She didn't enjoy it either and found the act quite revolting. Again - it's probably cultural. But even if it wasn't, some respect, please.


I am not offended, thank you. I simply find your (both) attitudes towards sex very inhibited considering you live in Australia and not the Middle East. 

The trigger for me was the whole after marriage sexless thing, it's exactly what happened to my marriage. Btw, I am a female from a conservative Asian (mostly) background, so I find your excuse of "cultural" intruiging.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

TXTrini said:


> I am not offended, thank you. I simply find your (both) attitudes towards sex very inhibited considering you live in Australia and not the Middle East.
> 
> The trigger for me was the whole after marriage sexless thing, it's exactly what happened to my marriage. Btw, I am a female from a conservative Asian (mostly) background, so I find your excuse of "cultural" intruiging.


I wonder why we are so different. The only girl I've ever dated that was into oral was an indonesian girl I dated. Anyway, you are you. I am me. My wife is my wife. I tried, it was uncomfortable and weird for her. Excuses, reasons, whatever. Let's just agree respectfully we're different. Just because I'm not into whatever you're into doesn't make me any lesser as a sexual being. No one is keeping score here so I don't understand nor appreciate the judgemental tone by you and that other person.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

stamina said:


> I wonder why we are so different. The only girl I've ever dated that was into oral was an indonesian girl I dated. Anyway, you are you. I am me. My wife is my wife. I tried, it was uncomfortable and weird for her. Excuses, reasons, whatever. Let's just agree respectfully we're different. Just because I'm not into whatever you're into doesn't make me any lesser as a sexual being. No one is keeping score here so I don't understand nor appreciate the judgemental tone by you and that other person.


First off, I'm not comparing myself to you sexually, you aren't my man.

I'm pointing out you live in a Western country, you said the sex was great before marriage, you mentioned you are a quiet guy and you don't talk much, you could both lose a few pounds. 

It sounds like you two got too comfortable and stopped connecting and lost sight of why you wanted to be together in the first place. One thing I've found is no amount of talking is going to change that dynamic, you'll get a bunch of BS excuses, there might be a change here and there, then back to business as usual.

How old are you two? Anyway, I should probably stop jacking Torn's thread and respond on yours. I'm sorry if my words were too harsh, but you seem to need some shaking up, you're too complacent atm.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> I gather you either enjoy vanilla sex


Had to look that up. Yes, I suppose that's me. Looking at some of the post by two people above, I feel that people are quite judgemental about that here. I mean, is everyone into oral and anal and all the kinky stuff? Is it okay to just like the regular stuff? Am I not welcomed here because of that?


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

stamina said:


> Had to look that up. Yes, I suppose that's me. Looking at some of the post by two people above, I feel that people are quite judgemental about that here. I mean, is everyone into oral and anal and all the kinky stuff? Is it okay to just like the regular stuff? Am I not welcomed here because of that?


How do you know what we're "into"? I commented on your attitude about smelly penises and vaginas. I felt like I was hearing a little kid talking about cooties for a sec there.


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

I don't like the smell. Sue me ffs!

Any WHAT attitude? The OP was asking about views on oral sex. I gave mine! How's me finding the smell off-putting comparable to a kid about cooties? You like it? Great!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@stamina you can protect your ego, or have a better sex life. Now for your sake if you want a better sex life, you will eschew the former to have the latter.

That said if pride is more important to you, you will continue to face a disappointing sex life.

The fact is, you can only change yourself. Yet here you are looking for ways to fix your wife. While ignoring the other elephant in the room called you.

On the Asian thing yes conservatism can be an issue, yet it certainly isn’t for all. As has been my experience with some university educated Japanese, Cambodian and Filipino women.

As to your want for a better sex life with a frequency of more than 1-2x a year. You are on a fool’s errand if you think you can have that without paying a sex worker, if you have no desire to become a better lover.

Likewise your description of your wife’s orgasm reads like someone who is putting on a fake performance.
Of which given her extraordinary response to limited (missionary?) sex, I am surprised you’re not highly skeptics of her responses.


And c’mon if the sex was awesome for her, she would want more of it, yet the reality you face is one of avoidince.

Oh and just for your interest, when a woman is nearing a real orgasm. You can easily tell via her rectum (that’s where the scientists insert their probe) in the way it vibrates with very strong fast puckering that continues to tighten. Until the orgasm begins, which leads to deep pulsing throbbing for a long time that slowly tapers off as the orgasm wanes.

Likewise through a woman’s vagina it is harder to detect. Yet the build up sees more intense tilting forward and back, followed by throbbing spasms and pulses as the orgasm begins followed by the long taper as the throbbing pulses diminish.


Anyway good luck, since I’m certain you’ll need it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Plus @stamina the disconnect in terms of relating and communicating with your wife needs resolution as well.

That said if your wife has mostly already checked out, your chances of being able to fix that are rather low.


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

Personal said:


> Oh and just for your interest, when a woman is nearing a real orgasm. You can easily tell via her rectum (that’s where the scientists insert their probe) in the way it vibrates with very strong fast puckering that continues to tighten. Until the orgasm begins, which leads to deep pulsing throbbing for a long time that slowly tapers off as the orgasm wanes.


God I love TAM. 

I'm a scientist. I have probes. I am definitely having a discussion with my wife tomorrow. 

For purely scientific purposes. 


And to think all this time I was only using the visual cues of her face becoming super red that flushed down her neck and chest while two large veins pop out on her face. 

You learn something new every day. Gonna have to pick up some pressure indicating probes from work tomorrow.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*MODERATOR NOTE:- *Please keep it civil, folks.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

stamina said:


> At this stage, with limited data, one can only fill the gaps with one's own experiences. They project.
> If by what I wrote, it was the oral sex that triggered him, then he needs to grow up. Not everyone is as sexually adventurous.
> 
> Had a real good talk with her just then with some more tangible outcomes. Previously when I brought up the topic, it was just sweeping under the carpet with a "yeah sure we'll try, I guess". Now we're making plans to actually write down a list of potential issues and improvements that either of us can try out. Things including "let's try use lube" (we used to have a bottle at the start of dating but we found out we really didn't need it. I honestly think we both really enjoyed sex at one point), to "let's try some herbal supplements", to "okay, maybe we can both shed a few pounds". I know it's very against the dead bedroom book, but I am seeing a more positive and hands-on contribution on her. Maybe because this time I actually made it clear that this is a deal breaker. (Previously, I only said it was a big deal).


It is good you are still able to talk about it. If it were at the point where neither of you could even discuss it, it would probably be too late to turn around. I can tell you for sure that putting the initiation of sex in her hands was the absolute worst thing you could do. You are a spontaneous desire (SD) person and she seems to be a responsive desire (RD) person. I suspect that you initiated most if not all of the time when you did have a good sex life. An RD person isn't going to initiate out of the blue. From the perspective of a SD person you think that just given enough time she will of course want to have sex. No such luck. She may want sex once you get her turned on, but she isn't going to get turned on out of the blue. My wife is mostly RD, yet she loves sex. It just isn't always front and center in her mind like it is for me. She would have to go a long time without sex before she would initiate.

Don't worry about the "vanilla" sex thing. What ever you and her like is whatever you and her like. Also, trying to throw in new activities into your sex life at this point is a major mistake. You aren't going to be able to jump from sex a few times a year straight to wild and kinky stuff. Work on getting back to a "normal" sex life of at least a few times a month first. I personally wouldn't be happy with just a couple times a month long term, but after your long dry spell that us a good first step. Then as frequency picks up you can work on spicing things up with activities you both enjoy and/or want to try.

I've found a very good resource for dealing with RD/SD issues and keeping your sex life healthy, in a fairly conservative manner is the web site Uncovering Intimacy. I'll link to a few good articles below. Also, it is take a bit of a more extreme tactic, but try reading The Married Man Sex Life Primer. I think it has good insight into some of the biology of sex and I like that it focuses on making you a better man and better husband, with the goal of more sex. It is worth the small cost.

Check these out








Responsive vs spontaneous desire - Uncovering Intimacy


Yesterday I wrote about arousal non-concordance and how sometimes our body’s arousal doesn’t match up with our mind’s arousal. How it can be that your mind might want sex, but your body isn’t ready. Or the opposite can happen. Unfortunately, this confuses a lot of women




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Arousal non-concordance - Uncovering Intimacy


I heard a new term this week and I’m really excited about it, because it’s a concept I’ve known about for a long time, but I’ve not seen many people write about it. I also didn’t know what to call it. I like having labels,




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Does your spouse have permission to arouse you? - Uncovering Intimacy


I get a lot of emails from husbands and wives who get rejected for sex frequently. They often want to know how to initiate better, how to arouse their spouse, how to turn them on and get them interested in sex. However, in a lot




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












How do I get my spouse to do [blank]? - Uncovering Intimacy


Want to change your spouse? Trying to figure out how to do it? Thinking "how can I get my spouse to do this"? Here's how you do it.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












SWM 046 - Responsive desire is a blessing - Uncovering Intimacy


Responsive desire isn't an abnormality, disability or curse. It's a blessing. Once you learn to work with it, it can actually lead to an amazing sex life.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












SWM 047 - Spontaneous desire is a blessing - Uncovering Intimacy


Feel like having a high sex drive is a burden? Wonder why God made you this way? Here are some reasons I think having spontaneous desire is a blessing.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Desire vs. willingness - Uncovering Intimacy


Yesterday I promised I’d write a post on desire vs. willingness, because, again, this is a topic I’ve mentioned many times, but never devoted a post to. Our society teaches us that we shouldn’t have sex unless we desire it. In movies, both of the




www.uncoveringintimacy.com


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## stamina (Aug 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It is good you are still able to talk about it. If it were at the point where neither of you could even discuss it, it would probably be too late to turn around. I can tell you for sure that putting the initiation of sex in her hands was the absolute worst thing you could do. You are a spontaneous desire (SD) person and she seems to be a responsive desire (RD) person. I suspect that you initiated most if not all of the time when you did have a good sex life. An RD person isn't going to initiate out of the blue. From the perspective of a SD person you think that just given enough time she will of course want to have sex. No such luck. She may want sex once you get her turned on, but she isn't going to get turned on out of the blue. My wife is mostly RD, yet she loves sex. It just isn't always front and center in her mind like it is for me. She would have to go a long time without sex before she would initiate.
> 
> Don't worry about the "vanilla" sex thing. What ever you and her like is whatever you and her like. Also, trying to throw in new activities into your sex life at this point is a major mistake. You aren't going to be able to jump from sex a few times a year straight to wild and kinky stuff. Work on getting back to a "normal" sex life of at least a few times a month first. I personally wouldn't be happy with just a couple times a month long term, but after your long dry spell that us a good first step. Then as frequency picks up you can work on spicing things up with activities you both enjoy and/or want to try.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all those resources. I'll try to get to them soon. As for the whole SD and RD thing, that's quite interesting. Never heard of all this before. Thinking back to the beginning, I would say it was more of a 60/40 split, where she would actually initiate quite a fair bit, but I wouldn't quite say half the time.

Also coming more to the realisation of other complicating factors as well when another helpful chap suggested that maybe she was stuck in a non-sexual mummy mode. Might be onto something here as last night reminded me that my kid is actually still very clingy and still exibiting signs of separation anxiety. She would be cooking and he would be full crying and sulking because mummy can't carry him around while cooking. While he didn't object to me picking him up instead, he still made it clear that it was mummy he wanted. 

Also realise that I've stopped doing ever since the kid came along and all of a sudden we became mindless boring adults - I stopped sending her sweet silly messages here and there randomly. So I've gone back to starting this today. Hope we get back to being a couple despite also being parents.


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## HisPlaceofInterest (Feb 27, 2014)

Wow - what crazy humans we are. Life is a blessing and so is my wife - 8 years of crazy off the charts amazing sex and a relationships that is rock solid. I do hope you all find it. We work constantly to maintain it.


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## johndoe12299 (Jul 12, 2021)

HisPlaceofInterest said:


> Wow - what crazy humans we are. Life is a blessing and so is my wife - 8 years of crazy off the charts amazing sex and a relationships that is rock solid. I do hope you all find it. We work constantly to maintain it.


Nice! What are some things you do to work and keep the flame alive?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

HisPlaceofInterest said:


> Wow - what crazy humans we are. Life is a blessing and so is my wife - 8 years of crazy off the charts amazing sex and a relationships that is rock solid. I do hope you all find it. We work constantly to maintain it.


I've been married 31 years and last night we had one of the best and hottest sex sessions in my life. We work to maintain it too. Sex life wasn't a top priority for a long time while we were raising our kids. Now that they are moving on to their own lives we have a whole lot more time together and we've definitely stepped it up a notch, or two.


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## johndoe12299 (Jul 12, 2021)

well ****, now you gotta give us deets


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

johndoe12299 said:


> well ****, now you gotta give us deets


Let's just say it is great to have the entire house to yourself for a couple hours


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Let's just say it is great to have the entire house to yourself for a couple hours


what are you talking about? Do you mean to tell me you don’t like this scenario?

KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK!!!!

Mommy! Daddy!

_doorknob jiggles_

are you in there? Are you taking a nap again?

_wife yells at locked (thank GOD) door while in quite a compromising position on all fours_

me and daddy are taking a nap! We’ll come out in 15 minutes!!!

Ok!!!!!

Mommy! Daddy!!! We are hungry!!! What’s for dinner.

_Demon spawn exits my wife_

WE SAID WE WOULD BE OUT IN 15 MINUTES!!! WE NEED TO SLEEP, GO AWAY!!!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> what are you talking about? Do you mean to tell me you don’t like this scenario?
> 
> KNOCK, KNOCK, KNOCK!!!!
> 
> ...


Been there, done that, lol. Such romantic and intimate moments.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’ve been on TAM a while now. Posted my own story of woe and read countless others. I am blown away at times about expectations in a marriage and even in the dating arena.
> 
> I have read stories of completely sexless marriages. I mean no sex AT ALL. Stories of very little sex, once or twice a week.
> 
> ...


The internet is a haven for the worst of society to act out their worst impulses behind the safety of anonymity. For the MGTOW/incel crowd, they just blindly hate women. There’s nothing women can do to please them. They see women as being way too full of themselves for thinking g daily humiliation and rape is not what they deserve. Those men are monsters and not representative of most men. What’s really pathetic is they’ll quotr fake stats based on the life they imagine “Chad” has when in reality, Chad is married with kids. They think Chads are permanent adolescents like they are, but he’s not. He’s a man. The MGTOW/incel crowd are the worst kind of beta and a good reason why women need to own, learn how to use and actively carry a firearm.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Coming from NY and it’s steak houses how should I do that?


 You said “south.” Texas is south and I’ve been to the best steakhouses in NYC. Trust me. Y’all try and it’s adorable. But you need a blue steak at Pappa’s or Bob’s or Knife. That’s a steak. 😉


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You said “south.” Texas is south and I’ve been to the best steakhouses in NYC. Trust me. Y’all try and it’s adorable. But you need a blue steak at Pappa’s or Bob’s or Knife. That’s a steak. 😉


She unfortunately cannot respond back to you.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> She unfortunately cannot respond back to you.



Why not? Did she leave?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

She was banned...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Why not? Did she leave?


She couldn't keep to forum rules and eventually got banned. Interesting woman though.

I see you're fairly new and a Texan so that gives you points in my book. 😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The internet is a haven for the worst of society to act out their worst impulses behind the safety of anonymity. For the MGTOW/incel crowd, they just blindly hate women. There’s nothing women can do to please them. They see women as being way too full of themselves for thinking g daily humiliation and rape is not what they deserve. Those men are monsters and not representative of most men. What’s really pathetic is they’ll quotr fake stats based on the life they imagine “Chad” has when in reality, Chad is married with kids. They think Chads are permanent adolescents like they are, but he’s not. He’s a man. The MGTOW/incel crowd are the worst kind of beta and a good reason why women need to own, learn how to use and actively carry a firearm.


As a married "Chad", I appreciate this.😋


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> She couldn't keep to forum rules and eventually got banned. Interesting woman though.
> 
> I see you're fairly new and a Texan so that gives you points in my book. 😉


Thanks. 😊


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> As a married "Chad", I appreciate this.😋


My husband is a “Chad” too. He was super cool in college, a personal trainer for the football team, and dated all the “Stacy’s” those weirdos are so mad about. What he’s doing with a dork like me I will never know. 😎☺


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Let's just say it is great to have the entire house to yourself for a couple hours


Right? We’re building a new house and where we are now is so small. I’m, um, vocal and worry about being overheard. When my son was at camp it sure was nice to be able to relax and follow my instincts.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> She couldn't keep to forum rules and eventually got banned. Interesting woman though.


I tried to keep from gossiping but at my age I am who I am. 😉 What did she do?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> Can't talk about it. You'll get banned.
> 
> Best thing you can do is read TorninHalf's posts. She is an amazing person. A wealth of information. Great heart. Easily one of the best people to ever grace this site.


Wow. Ok. It’s really not my concern anyway, it’s immature of me to gossip about it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I'll say this: she is a betrayed wife who was baited by an unrepentant wayward wife on this site, one who loves attention and drama and continues to seek it out. TIH gave it right back to her and didn't put up with her nonsense.


Poor thing. Good for her for standing up for herself. I cannot imagine how heartbroken I would be if my husband betrayed me like that. Who on earth would pick on someone who had been through that?


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Don't get me wrong, TIH was no wilting flower, but sometimes waywards are as manipulative as they come. Here for attention, not to better themselves.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Don't get me wrong, TIH was no wilting flower, but sometimes waywards are as manipulative as they come. Here for attention, not to better themselves.


 Adulterers usually are. Both sexes.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Numb26 said:


> Quickies absolutely have a place (in the pool ☺), even "boring" sex has its place. But to use your food references, if you have chicken even night for dinner you are going to want a steak every once in awhile. Chicken gets boring


By that rationale, the same sausage gets boring after many years. I mean there are so many flavours after all 

Pork Sausage. Bratwurst Pork Sausage. ...
Salami. Italian Sausage (Salami)
Boiled Sausage. Fuet Boiled Sausage.
Cooked Sausage. Longaniza Cooked Sausage.
Blood Sausages. Morcilla Blood Sausage.
Raw Sausage. Sobrassada Raw Sausage.
Liver Sausage. Liverwurst.
Nurnberger
Herb sausage
Smoked Sausage. Kielbasa Smoked Sausage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

To be fair she was given warnings before and this wasn't the first time. So lets not blame anyone else.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> To be fair she was given warnings before and this wasn't the first time. So lets not blame anyone else.


 I obviously know nothing about it. Any comment I make is strictly speculative. I’m being nosy, I should work on that.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

aine said:


> By that rationale, the same sausage gets boring after many years. I mean there are so many flavours after all
> 
> Pork Sausage. Bratwurst Pork Sausage. ...
> Salami. Italian Sausage (Salami)
> ...


You get my point then and we are in agreement 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> To be fair she was given warnings before and this wasn't the first time. So lets not blame anyone else.


*MODERATION NOTGE:- *@Diana7 is correct.

The moderation team worked with the OP over a _very_ long period of time. However, despite receiving multiple warnings and communication/s between the moderation team and the OP pointing out that she was hurting other members, she appeared to refuse to believe that the rules should apply to her in the same way that they applied to other members.

It since transpires that the OP actually had multiple accounts and was trolling at least one other member on TAM.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> *MODERATION NOTGE:- *@Diana7 is correct.
> 
> The moderation team worked with the OP over a _very_ long period of time. However, despite receiving multiple warnings and communication/s between the moderation team and the OP pointing out that she was hurting other members, she appeared to refuse to believe that the rules should apply to her in the same way that they applied to other members.
> 
> It since transpires that the OP actually had multiple accounts and was trolling at least one other member on TAM.


Thanks for explaining. It’s good to know you guys are watching out for everyone to keep things civil.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> It since transpires that the OP actually had multiple accounts and was trolling at least one other member on TAM.


I found this quite surprising, so I asked the OP. She has no idea what you're referring to.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> *MODERATION NOTGE:- *@Diana7 is correct.
> 
> The moderation team worked with the OP over a _very_ long period of time. However, despite receiving multiple warnings and communication/s between the moderation team and the OP pointing out that she was hurting other members, she appeared to refuse to believe that the rules should apply to her in the same way that they applied to other members.
> 
> It since transpires that the OP actually had multiple accounts and was trolling at least one other member on TAM.


I think she was given a lot of leeway, but ultimately she just didn't stop.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Twodecades said:


> I found this quite surprising, so I asked the OP. She has no idea what you're referring to.


Suffice to say, the moderation team knows otherwise. And on every site and forum that I have moderated on, the moderation team always keeps records.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderation note: *This thread has been reported as being off topic.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> *Moderation note: *This thread has been reported as being off topic.


I think you should lock it, since the OP is not here any more... or at least not as TIH...


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> *Moderation note: *This thread has been reported as being off topic.


Sorry for my part in that.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

Unrepentant?

I most certainly did not bait her. She let her emotions and anger towards me get the better of her. I’m responsible for her comments and her inability to stay out of my thread when she knew she got in trouble every time she went in there? Unfortunately most of her comments from the time she was permabanned are now gone but the last thing that happened was her telling me things like I didn’t deserve my babies and how horrible a mother I was going to be because I don’t enjoy cleaning and I plan to go back to work full time.

“Amen. If you make more money you can hire people to raise your kids as well. Let’s face it Cici you aren’t up for the task so hire people to do it for you. Be true to who you are.” And she just didn’t stop, she was already on a role before I made the comment that she responded to which ultimately got her banned. She was fired up that day and I didn’t need to bait her. She was already going to do it to herself.

Then I said the babies were coming and I was going to be the best parent I could and asked what else she suggested I do? That I should just kill myself because I made this big error in life and should just give up? It was in no way meant to bait her. I really wanted to know what she would suggest me to do to be deserving of my own children and moving forward in life after committing such a apparently unforgivable act. Her comment in response to that alluded to the fact that yes, she does think that would be a good idea. She also “attacked” other people that called her out for what she was saying. And then she was banned. Never once did I report her comments, then or prior to her ban(s), and mods can verify this.


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## Cici1990 (Feb 22, 2021)

And when I get banned for these comments I’m not going to cry “Oh, somebody baited me!” No, I know that Cici just got really pissed off and couldn’t help herself. 

Well, I needed to separate myself from TAM anyway for my mental health so this is as good a way to do it than any.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Cici1990 said:


> And when I get banned for these comments I’m not going to cry “Oh, somebody baited me!” No, I know that Cici just got really pissed off and couldn’t help herself.
> 
> Well, I needed to separate myself from TAM anyway for my mental health so this is as good a way to do it than any.


By all means, take a break!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*For several reasons this thread is now closed to further replies.*


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