# Marriage and loneliness...



## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

How is it possible to have such a big family( 3 kids and a husband) and still feel so lonely?

I am 28 years old, been with my husband since I was 19 yo.
I put him through A LOT- before- we got married. My life before I had met my husband had been a living nightmare. Too much to go into. But it's resulted in me being distrusting and anti-social. 
which seems to be getting worse since I'm not as naive as I once was and have realized even more vividly the horrible truths of hu-man kind. Even reading through some of these posts looking for some advice to try and help myself, brought to light unspoken truths about myself and my husband.
I;m afraid our relationship will never be the same, even though almost all the regretful things I put my h through was before we were married. 
I'd even ruined one of the most awesome marriage propsals ever because of my insecurity (ies). 
Now we have three sons and just recently made it past another anniversary.( Which we didn't celebrate)
Everyday is such a struggle with loneliness. I feel guilty for feeling this way. (because of my children) I always used to feel like they are all I'd ever need. but for years now I cant deny or escape this loneliness. i am 28 years old and haven't really accomplished anythng besides trying to be the best mother i can. ( i have had no help as far as family - my mothers an addict my 'father' died a few years ago from drug addiction he never was in my life and i have a little brother who is in prison for drugs and other crimes) 
My children are my upmost priority. 
I've never been good at making my husband a priority(except for sex) because i still don;t trust that he loves me or will be able to stay with me. 
It is because i feel so undesireable... I have no friends- not one. It is hard to make friends because we live in the country and there isn;t many moms my age with big family like me.
We live in the same house my h was born and grew up in. he's now 34 and has been in this area his whole life. so he has lots of friends. He tells me all the time to try and make friends but i don;t know how i;m supposed to do this. I stay at home right now with our youngest, he is 3 yrs old. My husband works full time(of course) and i barely get to spend an hour a day with him. when he is off of work there;s always so much to do around the farm or help a friend. 
I feel like I have to push and push to get some family time and that hurts my heart. But mostly it hurts because it seems he has no desire to be around me. like that song goes : "i'm much too young to feel this damn old.' I know I need to get out and get a life but with having 3 kids this doesn't seem fair to them when i know their dad isn't / doesn;t seem too enthusiastic about being with/ teaching his boys

Sometimes I can;t help but fantasize about meeting and having fun with someone random just to not feel like an old nag/hag for awhile. 

what is up with men? why did God make us so entirely different? Why do i feel like i need my h around more than he wants or needs me around?
Sorry I know i'm bouncing everywhere, this is extemely long and impossible to understand...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You have a lot to work on, but it does not seem like a lost cause.

The first thing you need to do is to work on yourself.. you don't sound like you are happy in life. Only you can make you happy. So you need to find what will make you happy.

Have you been to a doctor to see about depression? You also sound very depressed. When a person has clinical depression they cannot move beyond the funk they are in. It colors everything. You seem to be doing this. Individual counseling might help you a lot as well. 

You need friends, so maybe you could start there... to meet other women in your community. Are there play groups you could join wiht your kids. It does not matter if you have move children than most other women in the area... you have children just like them.

Are any of your husband's friends married to a woman with children? Especially a SAHM? Invite all of your husband's friend's wives to a playday with their kids. Plan something special and fun to do. They will come. If you live in a farm community there might not be much entertainment for the kids and SAHM's.

Plan a party/BBQ for your your husband's friends, wives and kids. Make it a pot luck so you don't have to work too hard. Have some fun kid's games and ask the other parents to help put them together.

You can also plan a lady's time out.. all of you women can leave the kids with the husband's to watch and go do something fun.
If you start socializing with people you will start to make friends with them. It's not hard really. It just takes doing it.

Do you attend a church? If so voluneer. A lot of SAHM's do this. Teach a sunday school class. There are things you can do even with children in tow. Get your children to help you with whatever volunteer project you are involved in.

It's very likely that your husband would enjoy being around you more if you were more happy with yourself... so make yourself happy.


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

2mindful, you don't need this site for marriage advice. You need a doctor and psychiatrist. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings. I am trying to say your problems are all in your head. You are depressed and need help, but you are blaming your husband for your problems. Honestly, if you are so needy with him, then I can understand him not wanting to be around the house to keep you company or engage in his family. You are sucking the life out of him, and that is what needy and depressed people do. You don't mean do it. It's the way the illness is. No one here can help you. As much as EleGirl tried, you are not going to listen to her just like you don't listen to your husband. Anyone else here can only offer different versions of what EleGirl already stated. If you want help, then make an appointment to see your doctor. Tell him everything you stated here. He will know what to do.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

You seem to have gone into a negative spiral and for no major reason. As others point out it is your own mindset more than anything else that is making you go downhill. 

For starters, try to see and appreciate what you have. Gratitude is the first step to Enthusiasm, and Enthusiasm is the first step to Happiness. I am sure lot of people on this forum and in general would love to be in your shoes right now. You have a nice family, 3 kids, husband who although busy encourages you to have friends etc. There are so many people who are victims of abusive/disloyal spouses. Think about them and you might find some good reasons to be happy.

Also, looks like due to your past (addict mother etc) you have developed a negative mindset towards people. That would also be the reason you do not feel like having friends. Do not let your past control your future. Try to see the good in people around you including your husband.

Also in case you have guilty feeling for what you put your H though before marriage try and forgive yourself for that. I am not sure what you did but you mentioned that couple of times in your post so I assume you think about that a lot. Again, in this context .. Do not let your past control your future.

Regarding your fantasy and ruining the awesome marriage proposal (some other man?) I guess thinking about such things "ifs and thens" etc. is definitely not a good idea unless you want to walk out on your marriage for reasons you might not have mentioned.

Elegirl gives great advice on how to make new friends and keep yourself positive. In addition I would also add.. you could try learning something, get a/another degree, join some classes, pick up a hobby, read good books on positive mental attitude. 

I also agree with River1977.. it would be a good idea to visit a doctor as well. Your post has depression written all over it.


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## seekinghelpnow (Apr 8, 2012)

Your childhood screams for the need of counseling you may be surprised the healing it will bring, the happiness and that will overflow into your relationships, all of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

The reason you feel undesirable is probably because your father abandoned you. I have the exact same problem....but from the man's side. Mother abandoned me when I was 4. 

If your husband is having sex with you I HIGHLY doubt that you are undesirable. 

As far as "what is up with men?"....its nothing to do with what the sex is......I think perhaps your man is not providing you with the support and intimacy that you need to help heal your wounds, but he may never be able to provide it if you dont work on yourself first. 

I mean, you sound like a fantastic wife from your note...maybe he is not the best....but maybe no one could fulfill your needs if your internal issues cant be solved..or at least understood and worked upon. 

You are not undesirable due to your family history. You make your own life and world. 

Its terrible that you had the bad luck of having such a selfish family. But that DOES NOT make you undesirable. 

I already like you!


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## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

@ river 1977:Wow, thanks. 
When i had posted 'marriage and loneliness" i was really upset and tired. 
I was all over the place and didn't expect any replies, except for maybe a few like your replies. You're right maybe i do need help, but I have sought out counseling with disappointing results. I'd like to find someone who has actually been through what i have and still have some of their sanity left. 
As far as sucking the life out of my husband you're probably right .... that's what i'm afraid of.
You kinda sound like my husband.. I definitely don't want to be a life sucker to anyone- it makes me feel even more like I should leave- I don't feel like he is in love.. with me. I don't want to be a case to anyone and i am soooo tired of not feeling good enough no matter how happy i try to be or to make him feel.


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## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

EleGirl: I appreciate your reply soooo much- thank you for taking the time- when i had posted i had so much going through my head for so long and find it so hard to put how i feel in words. I strive everyday to be a humble thankful soul. After all i have seen and what i've been through- where i'm at in life IS like heaven to me. i just can't help but feel that i'm not connecting with H. When we started a family i thought it was going to be more of a 'team effort'... since my H was the one who was pushing to start a family. Like I mentioned I was 19 when we met and really wanted to achieve my dream of becoming successful( degrees/money ) after having a "family" that have messed their lifes up so badly
I still feel like i need to do this to assure myself I'm not like them. Because I do feel pathetic like them just in a different way.
You were very giving in helpful advice.. really thank YOU so much. 
I have tried get togethers with other sahm but it seems like they aren't interested. I guess i am too different. I feel like i relate best with people who are older than me( we are more on the same page of reponsibilities and woes that life can bring) but it doesn;t seem to go both ways. 
Ironic that you mentioned teaching Sunday School because.. I do! I love all children soo much. It does make me feel like i have a purpose outside of being a baby maker/ raiserOur church is very small 15-20 members and there's usually only 1-2 other kids to teach besides my sons. The mothers of the other children aren;t involved in it- They never volunteer so I may be able to hear the preachers message- and i do talk to them about what the children are learning but thats as far as it goes. I seem to get a certain look from people that feels like everyone sees that I'm just white trash hillbilly or something.
I think your are right about depression- but when I was younger we were always in and out of foster homes and once I became a teenager they had to send my brother and i to a group home because no one wants to foster teenagers.. well they put me on anti=depreessants ( its a routine in group homes to see a psychiatrist and be put on medicine,) the medicine they put me on made me so depressed. 
I've been trying to pull out of this depression on my own-
Using Jesus as my rock.. I know he went through hell and still managed to love and forgive, even as perfect as He is, He still was broken down by people and endured. 
But nothing i feel capable of ever feels good enough, especially for God. He knows if I didn;t have my babes i wouldn't have been stong enough to last on this world- wouldn't of had a reason to.
I know my life is in my hands - its up to me to make something of it and not look to my H for validation.
As far as feeling the need to find someone to have a good time with-I would never want to hurt my husband - But I still can't help but feel like i'd like to find an adult who has fun when they are around me....not necessarily an affair. AGAIN THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO REPLY..and not hating or name calling YOU SOUND SO KNOWLEDGEABLE
YOU HAD GREAT ADVICE. THANK YOU for being so compassionate!


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## Valley (Apr 24, 2012)

I just had to come here and give you a cyber hug. Focus on yourself and the healing that needs to be done. Then move onto your relationship with your husband. Seek a good dr and don't stop until you find one that you are comfortable with. Depression and loneliness are ugly things and can torture a person. 

Keep your chin up and know there is hope.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Another one here to give you a cyber hug. I've been where you are. In fact it took THREE rounds of therapy to heal me. I have ptsd and depression from trauma from my childhood and I felt the same way you do now about my husband and kids.

I'm with River in that you don't need marriage advice you need to work on healing from past wounds. Fix that and your marriage will be just fine.

Hugs.


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## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

@ eowyn,
I do appreciate you taking the time to reply, but I dont think i was realting very well all those things that can go through ones mind... I know it didn't sound like it but 
i am sooo thankful for my family and living in the country, I feel so close to God and heaven on these hills in Ky. It really is a dream come true` always wanted to live in the country by a river or creek and lots of woods. I am a very humble person and i'm honestly super thankful for all the horrible things i've been through because it keeps me from being a really big F*ck up. I've lived it first hand and it helps me not make the same mistakes. these life lessons have made me a better/ stronger person.
As far as my outlook on people... like i responded to EleGirl, i love ALL children. And can you understand that i'm losing faith when i see how our children are being maimed physically and emotionally? 
It affects me because i was one of those children @ one point. Everyone needs unconditional love which usually comes from mother and/or father. I've never had that and never will. it's hard to live with.

As far as hubby goes.. he does tell me to get friends but thats because he is out all the time. The night I posted he had just came home [email protected] 1:15 am drunk as hell. Is that what i should be doing? i just would like him to be around for things other than sex.
Even my boys have been asking me lately why dad doesn't want to spend time with them. 
there;s usually only one time a week(when i go to the grocery)that he is alone with them.. and he usually is working on something or he takes a nap and isn't spending 'quality' time with them. They are boys and my oldest is 9 yo and could really use some of those father/ son stuff. He has been asking me ?'s i don;t know the answer to beacause i know nothing of what boys go through on the way to becoming a lil man. 
Well i'm rambling again.. thank you for your reply. You are right- sometimes i do find myself losing that thankfulness that i once was overflowing with.


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## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

@ valley: Thank you  It's been so nice to talk with someone without being hated on. 
Seroiusly I thank God for ones like you who have so much love an d compassion in your hearts. 
You truelly most be such an awesome person.
I hope u understand how much advice and understanding can help and maybe even save someone<3


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Yes it's completely possible. I have 4 kids, lovely home, really sweet wife... and I far more often than not feel alone.

Counseling can help, but what you need most in the world is a really good friend. Get active and try your best to find one. You need another outlet besides your husband and children.


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## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

@ fetishwife, Very helpful response thank you for your time and understanding- I really think that;s what i need; just a little understanding... a connection with someone that can understand without making me feel like i'm a bad person for having questions and doubts. I've been so internally moved today. I cried a little when reading those reponses, some tears of thankfulness, sorrow and a little embarrassed.. it took me so long to get up the gull to put myself out there. But I'm really glad i did. Loneliness can be a b*tch and sometimes just a little compassion and understanding can make a person feel like they can become well enough to be that for someone else. <3


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> Counseling can help, but what you need most in the world is a really good friend. Get active and try your best to find one. You need another outlet besides your husband and children.


I went this route too and it ended up making me feel worse in the long run. Friends are great but only if you are healthy enough to have them first. I was too needy when I sought friends and what happened was I didn't set boundaries, didn't ask for my needs to be met and therefore the same dynamic I had in marriage happened in friendships too. My needs weren't met and I still felt lonely. All it did was give me a distraction without fixing the core problem.

These days I'm as alone as humanly possible and yet I'm not lonely. So weird but it feels great. Should mention I'm an introvert so I'm NOT a people person and I like being alone. 3 kids, a husband, chatting online, a weekly outing with other woman is all the socializing I need.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I went this route too and it ended up making me feel worse in the long run. Friends are great but only if you are healthy enough to have them first. I was too needy when I sought friends and what happened was I didn't set boundaries, didn't ask for my needs to be met and therefore the same dynamic I had in marriage happened in friendships too. My needs weren't met and I still felt lonely. All it did was give me a distraction without fixing the core problem.
> 
> These days I'm as alone as humanly possible and yet I'm not lonely. So weird but it feels great. Should mention I'm an introvert so I'm NOT a people person and I like being alone. 3 kids, a husband, chatting online, a weekly outing with other woman is all the socializing I need.


I can totally see that Mavash. Great friends take time to develop and time/luck to find.

When you are seriously starved for attention it's easy to over do things. Boundaries are very key.

I too am an introvert, my wife says I'm a hermit lol. Even a hermit needs some outlets other then their SO (at least I do). Part of it depends on how much of a companion your SO is.


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## 2mindful (Jan 17, 2012)

@ mavash Yep!!! That's me too. I am also an introvert.. I used to really enjoy my solidarity whenever i could get some... i need to quit feeling like i need someone out there for me to relate/connect with- i'm not really sure how it came to me feeling this way. I guess I just thought i needed to feel good enough, but with these helpful replies i'm understanding only i can achieve this on my own. 
Thanks for your reply


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> I too am an introvert, my wife says I'm a hermit lol. Even a hermit needs some outlets other then their SO (at least I do). Part of it depends on how much of a companion your SO is.


I'm a hermit and proud of it. But I do have other outlets than my SO. He can't possibly meet all my needs that's true and like the OP that's exactly what I used to expect him to do. And what he did in response was he avoided me. Now that I've found those other outlets and given him space he wants to spend time with me. The clingier I was the more he wanted to run away. Go figure.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

2mindful said:


> @ mavash Yep!!! That's me too. I am also an introvert.. I used to really enjoy my solidarity whenever i could get some... i need to quit feeling like i need someone out there for me to relate/connect with- i'm not really sure how it came to me feeling this way. I guess I just thought i needed to feel good enough, but with these helpful replies i'm understanding only i can achieve this on my own.
> Thanks for your reply


My parents belittled me for being an introvert. They convinced me that there was something wrong with me. It took YEARS for me to come to learn to love myself without feeling the need to be something I'm clearly not like extroverted. I made friends yes and I pretended to be them just so I could be 'normal' as to what my parents wanted. And at the end of the day I was EXHAUSTED.

Now I just don't give a flip. I don't like most people and you know what? That's okay. There is nothing wrong with me. Call me whatever name you want....nerd, bookworm, antisocial, paranoid, shy, hermit, homebody and I don't care. I happen to like me just the way I am. You can get there too it just takes some change in your thought process. I'm no longer trying to fit into an extroverted world and it's very freeing.

Should mention I'm 45 years old. The older I get the less I care about what others think of me.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> And at the end of the day I was EXHAUSTED.


I am exactly the same, it's not like I particularly notice it when I'm out other than I have that feeling to go off and be alone. Once I am alone, it hits me like a ton of bricks sometimes. Even after shortish outtings (dinner with others), I need time alone to decompress.

While I have a ton of acquaintances, and that's OKish. What I really want and need is just 1-2 good friends, that I see once in a while.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> I am exactly the same, it's not like I particularly notice it when I'm out other than I have that feeling to go off and be alone. Once I am alone, it hits me like a ton of bricks sometimes. Even after shortish outtings (dinner with others), I need time alone to decompress.
> 
> While I have a ton of acquaintances, and that's OKish. What I really want and need is just 1-2 good friends, that I see once in a while.


I found I got ANNOYED when I had too many interruptions from people. I didn't honor my introverted side and now I do. 1-2 close friends is all I need but they need to respect me enough to give me the space I require. There is a limit to how much people I can handle.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I found I got ANNOYED when I had too many interruptions from people. I didn't honor my introverted side and now I do. 1-2 close friends is all I need but they need to respect me enough to give me the space I require. There is a limit to how much people I can handle.


Yeah I have to suppress a natural strong annoyance that bubbles up when I get a string of interruptions. It can be interruptions when I want to talk or when I listen.

For example I can be trying to watch a show with my wife, when the phone rings, then a kid comes in to ask for something, then my wife needs to go to the bathroom. ARG! I don't know why but it bugs the daylights out of me.

I too need my space, and I appreciate it when friends can be comfortable with extended breaks in the conversation.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> For example I can be trying to watch a show with my wife, when the phone rings, then a kid comes in to ask for something, then my wife needs to go to the bathroom. ARG! I don't know why but it bugs the daylights out of me.


I know why. The phone would have been enough to set me off. I LOATHE the phone. I've trained my friends to text or email me instead of calling. Less intrusive. I've also changed the ring tone to something less startling and I can ignore it because the people that know me wouldn't be calling. LOL


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> I know why. The phone would have been enough to set me off. I LOATHE the phone. I've trained my friends to text or email me instead of calling. Less intrusive. I've also changed the ring tone to something less startling and I can ignore it because the people that know me wouldn't be calling. LOL


I am normally a very laid back guy, but that damnable phone really irks me like nothing else. Yeah at times I hate to admit it but sometimes just a single call from a telemarketer or a political call can really get me riled up. I try and keep us updated on the do not call list, but it never seems to really stick.

It feels like an invasion of my privacy. I know in my head that it's not a lot of time lost, but just having to stop what I'm doing to take a look at who is calling... just that alone bugs me if it was for naught.

It's odd too because nothing other than the phone can get my goat so easily.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> It's odd too because nothing other than the phone can get my goat so easily.


My answer also was to go 100% cellular. My husband, son and I all have our own cell phones. Therefore unless it's my phone I don't have to even look.

I never get phone calls that aren't for me personally.


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## LadyStardust (Apr 25, 2012)

Hugs from me too! I think we all get the loneliness. But you have some deeper issues going on that you need to work through. First step is recognizing that so good for you! I love my kids too and my family is always my first priority, but I have learned that I can be a better wife and mother by finding outlets to channel my intellectual and other needs. Get involved in something that a interests YOU. you will find like minded people and friendships hopefully will develop from that. God bless!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Mavash. said:


> My parents belittled me for being an introvert. They convinced me that there was something wrong with me. It took YEARS for me to come to learn to love myself without feeling the need to be something I'm clearly not like extroverted. I made friends yes and I pretended to be them just so I could be 'normal' as to what my parents wanted. And at the end of the day I was EXHAUSTED.
> 
> Now I just don't give a flip. I don't like most people and you know what? That's okay. There is nothing wrong with me. Call me whatever name you want....nerd, bookworm, antisocial, paranoid, shy, hermit, homebody and I don't care. I happen to like me just the way I am. You can get there too it just takes some change in your thought process. * I'm no longer trying to fit into an extroverted world and it's very freeing*.
> 
> Should mention I'm 45 years old. The older I get the less I care about what others think of me.


 Good for you Mavash... understanding yourself & "accepting" yourself for who you are ! :smthumbup: 

You know ...it grieves me when I hear others had to struggle like this though...... I LOVE and so appreciate introverts... I recently bought this book, haven't even opened it yet though...

 Introvert Power: Why Your Inner Life Is Your Hidden Strength  

My husband is an INTROVERT (he has a double whammy being a Phleg/ Melancholy).... a couple of my children lean this direction, they are freaking GREAT people...Did you know that half of all introverts DO what you just said in this post.. .they fake it -just to be accepted.... which makes it seem 75% are all extroverts ...but in reality they are not... I forget the statistics on this.. but clearly there are more extroverts running around -seems like an Extroverted world out there. 

I have always gravitated to the Introverted crowd, you know why... they are more intelligent !! Statistically this is very true. I think more extroverts should take the time to "understand" introverts & engage in converstation with them. I think they are missing alot by not doing that. 

I am the type I can talk to virtually anyone anywhere anytime and enjoy the hell out of it. But if they start acting like FOOLS, getting wreckless, I generally have little patience for them & want out of the room.... I would likely even come off as shy around such people. 

Here is an interesting little You Tube video -with the introvert trying to explain to the Extrovert why he is the way he is>> 

Introvert vs. Extrovert Conversation - YouTube

An Introvert's Diary » Top 5 Myths About Introverts


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## domen (Apr 26, 2012)

I am teary eyed as I write this. Your story reminds me soooo much of myself. Crazy past and my husband stuck there by me. I was 17 when we started dating. We are now married with two kids almost 10 years later.
I too have a strange family situation. I often feel alone. Like I dont have a normal family unit I can count on. 
I look forward to spending time with my husband but he works alot. I often find myself just feeling really really lonely. I am sad
My husband and I had a big blow out a few weeks ago and he is still not talking to me. I feel like he is not spending enough of his free time with me instead of his friends.

I am now working on myself. I can't change him but I can do things for myself that make me feel good. I am trying to spend more time with my friends and am making an effort to go out more. Even if its just for coffee. I am trying to get out of this damn bubble I have put myself in. I got a baby sitter for tonight and am going out with my girlfriends only for a few hours.

Thanks for posting here. I read about others and I feel comfort in knowing that I am not strange for feeling lonely or for not having a normal home life. Good luck to you.


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## fetishwife (Apr 22, 2012)

..dont be upset.....there is no such thing as a "normal home life..."

all of us, men and women, need to learn that we drive our SO's crazy when we are too demanding and too needy....

....unless you get two such people together and then get a potentially toxic codependent relationship as an alternative....then everyone is crazy. 

There is no substitute for feeling complete inside and projecting that out will only attract our SO's to us instead of pushing them away.

Apparently begging for more attention simply produces the opposite result. So to get more attention, we must only request it in a strong self confident way. Once you have requested it, and you dont get it..assuming that the SO has actually heard you....there is nothing else you can do TO THEM to make them do what you want.

You can ONLY work on yourself. 

You cant make someone else love you more, or want you more, or want to spend time with you more....its futile.

So I guess all you can do is to work on yourself to make yourself more attractive and interesting.

Its a paradox, but by NOT being needy, you get more attention and love and sex in the end.

All you can do is ask (and you should ask of course to communicate). After that you can only change yourself.

Very difficult for those of us that internally need more attention to validate ourselves.


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