# Is this normal?



## summer41

Sorry for the long post 


Hi I am new to these boards but totally lost. I have been married for 22 years. I was 18 when we met. I loved my husband then boyfriend with all my heart he was my everything. I did everything with him he was my lover and best friend. I lost touch with most of my girlfriends. 9 years later We eventually got our first house, got engaged got married and I qualified as an accountant and then fell pregnant. 
I got post natal depression but he didn't understand. That's when things started to crack. He started being uncaring, turning the Other way if I was upset. had no one to help me or show some love and understanding he made me feel like I was mental why couldn't I just crack on...I went to counselling but still struggled with my weight and body image (I had put 6 stone on) 
Over the next 4 years I felt low and couldn't fully shake off the sadness but was doing ok at work being promoted. His sex drive dipped and he started to pile on the weight. 
I fell pregnant 4 years later with my second child, again bam post natal depression and I developed an eating disorder to lose my weight. My first child went to school and I met some more mums who got me into running to help with my low mood it worked! I felt lighter in my moods, but my husband resented me for it, wouldn't watch me race didn't like me having friends; would put me down in a manipulative way. They made comments, my daughter made a comment that mummy doesn't eat with us anymore so I booked myself in with a psychologist to sort myself out and after many long sessions I felt like me again. She told me to keep running it was good for me but the more I ran the more my husband didn't support, I wanted him to become part of my "running family" but he wasn't interested so I stopped asking him.
Then he started putting more weight on, snoring I couldn't sleep I moved myself into the spare bedroom on a blow up bed. I asked for relate I asked for him to see the doctor as he was depressed this was 3 years ago and he refused. We grew apart. The comments saying I saw my children as a burden I trained too much. It broke my heart. I said if we didn't sort this out our marriage was in trouble.
Sure enough 3 years on after 6 years of being unhappy I have a 12 year old and a 8 year old and I've said our marriage is over. I love him like a brother not a husband. He finally agreed to relate which we did but it didn't work; the counsellor acknowledged his complete lack of empathy. 
He has buried his head again and is refusing to look at his finances. I feel sorry for him I keep wobbling between my decision as I do love Him I have been with him more than half my life but it's in the wrong way. I worry about the kids and how they will cope, but this is pulling me down. 
Any advice would be helpful. Feel rubbish that i am a Horrible person 


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## Evinrude58

Read your story, but don't know how to advise. If you're u don't love him anymore, what can I say?


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## summer41

I know it sounds strange but maybe I am still grieving for what we had yet know I will never have that back again. I care so much about him. I'm just a mess sorry for the confusing post evinrude58


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## GuyInColorado

No shame in ending this sham of a marriage. You two went different paths and I don't see it recovering. Don't let your children see this as a "normal marriage." They should see two adults in a loving relationship. You don't have that and never will.

File for divorce and start the seperation process. It's tough at first but time will go quickly. You'll be in a much better place 6 months from now, happy. Start dating when you feel you're ready. You are craving someone to share life with and be intimate with. It's normal and you deserve it.


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## summer41

Guyincolorado that's my worry our son who is 8 doesn't see us cuddling holding hands or even laughing. I am being soft. I don't want to hurt my husband but I realise that I am going to have to keep reiterating over and over again that this is happening. 


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> He finally agreed to relate


Could you please explain what this means? I have never seen the word "relate" used like this and am not clear what you mean. I can guess. But I'd rather have you clarify. 

You are not a horrible person. The two of you have a pretty common problem in that you have grown apart. It is possible to fix this, but it would take both of you working on it to fix it.

How many hours a week to you spend on your running?

How man hours a week do you and your husband spend in quality time together, just the two of you with no children or friends or family around?


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## summer41

Elegirl when I first said the marriage is over in Jan this year he said we needed help even though I was on my hands and needs pleading for marriage counselling 3 years earlier and he refused even though I was so upset. For the sake of trying I said ok and went but he couldn't see during those sessions that what he had done and said to me over the years was wrong and the counsellor couldn't get him to see either. The times I have asked for him to talk about our problems just the two of us I was rejected and even had to resort to a text message that he even ignored after I had poured my heart out. He always thought I wasn't serious. I am out running maybe 20 mins during the week a few time but do a long run at weekends. I even went to the gym before work while everyone in bed so that it didn't impact on the family but I was told by him that I needed to stop that too. It's almost like he wants me back to being the unconfident no friends person I was years ago and that isn't me now. I have a really good job now and he doesn't like me talking about is as I am the breadwinner.
I don't know how else I can hammer home that it is over I have tried the gentle approach and he keeps ignoring me.


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## summer41

I have tried in the past for date night but he would always have an excuse and it would always be me trying to sort it out. So I stopped trying 


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## EleGirl

Here is something for you to read... *Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting®*

What you are experiencing is, sadly pretty usual. It's so common that it has a name.


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> Elegirl when I first said the marriage is over in Jan this year he said we needed help even though I was on my hands and needs pleading for marriage counselling 3 years earlier and he refused even though I was so upset. For the sake of trying I said ok and went but he couldn't see during those sessions that what he had done and said to me over the years was wrong and the counsellor couldn't get him to see either. The times I have asked for him to talk about our problems just the two of us I was rejected and even had to resort to a text message that he even ignored after I had poured my heart out. He always thought I wasn't serious. I am out running maybe 20 mins during the week a few time but do a long run at weekends. I even went to the gym before work while everyone in bed so that it didn't impact on the family but I was told by him that I needed to stop that too. It's almost like he wants me back to being the unconfident no friends person I was years ago and that isn't me now. I have a really good job now and he doesn't like me talking about is as I* am the breadwinner.* I don't know how else I can hammer home that it is over I have tried the gentle approach and he keeps ignoring me.


Why doesn't he have a job? 

Is he the primary care giver to your children? Does he do most of the housework, chores, cooking?


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> I have tried in the past for date night but he would always have an excuse and it would always be me trying to sort it out. So I stopped trying


I, I stopped trying too when my husband did that for years. Why try to spend time with him and he does not want to spend time with you? I get it.

To keep a relationship healthy and to maintain the passions, a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of you. IN a marriage like yours it would take 20-25 hours a week to start with to rebuild your connection. Once you both had that loving feeling again, you could cut back to the 15 hours.


There is no reason that you should not be able to do your running and spend a lot of time with him. 

One problem I see with the way you describe the counseling it that it sounds like it was spending a lot of time telling him what he was doing wrong. I can see why he would get defensive. A better approach in counseling it to focus on what you both should be doing and then the two of you just start doing the right things. Unfortunately, too many counselors take the approach of wallowing in the past instead of coaching for better behaviors in the future.

If you want to try one last time, there are two books that would really help you. You would both read them and do the work that they say to do from here on out.

"Love Busters"
"His Needs, Her Needs"


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> Why doesn't he have a job?
> 
> 
> 
> Is he the primary care giver to your children? Does he do most of the housework, chores, cooking?




He does have a job but he works shifts. He cooks as I work long hours but I clean the house wash the clothes iron and do all the house bills etc 



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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> I, I stopped trying too when my husband did that for years. Why try to spend time with him and he does not want to spend time with you? I get it.
> 
> 
> 
> To keep a relationship healthy and to maintain the passions, a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of you. IN a marriage like yours it would take 20-25 hours a week to start with to rebuild your connection. Once you both had that loving feeling again, you could cut back to the 15 hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no reason that you should not be able to do your running and spend a lot of time with him.
> 
> 
> 
> One problem I see with the way you describe the counseling it that it sounds like it was spending a lot of time telling him what he was doing wrong. I can see why he would get defensive. A better approach in counseling it to focus on what you both should be doing and then the two of you just start doing the right things. Unfortunately, too many counselors take the approach of wallowing in the past instead of coaching for better behaviors in the future.
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to try one last time, there are two books that would really help you. You would both read them and do the work that they say to do from here on out.
> 
> 
> 
> "Love Busters"
> 
> "His Needs, Her Needs"




We both talked about our issues we had boundaries in the sessions. One of his comments was "he is dealing with the cards he has been dealt with" that cut deep. His issues where from what the counsellor and I can gather that I had another life that he chose not be a party too. He was jealous and wanted me to stop. I saw the main issue was that he was snoring and wouldn't go to the doctors to try and sort it out. I stopped finding him attractive and I bucked up the courage to say that and he said "he was emotionally and physically happy with who he was it was me that had the problem" which was a sure sign of his depression. He tried to deflect all his bad feelings back on to me so I thought it was all my fault he made me feel like I was thick, pathetic even friends said that he put me down when they came for meals at ours so I stopped inviting them around as I was embarrassed 


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> He does have a job but he works shifts. He cooks as I work long hours but I clean the house wash the clothes iron and do all the house bills etc


What percentage of your joint income does he earn? 

How many hours a week does he work?

The book "His Needs, Her Needs" explains to men that they need to do a fair share of the housework, child care, etc. Since you both work, he should be doing about 50% of it all (this includes yard care if you have one). 

It is completely disrespectful of him to dump all that on you.


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> Here is something for you to read... *Get Relationship Advice and Solve Marriage Problems with Michele Weiner-Davis - Divorce Busting*
> 
> What you are experiencing is, sadly pretty usual. It's so common that it has a name.




That is most definitely what has happened here but other things like nothing in common anymore, I don't find him attractive and can't ever see me being intimate with him again. The only reason to stay would be as my friend and father to my kid but that will leave a big emotional hole  



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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> We both talked about our issues we had boundaries in the sessions. One of his comments was "he is dealing with the cards he has been dealt with" that cut deep. His issues where from what the counsellor and I can gather that I had another life that he chose not be a party too. He was jealous and wanted me to stop. I saw the main issue was that he was snoring and wouldn't go to the doctors to try and sort it out. I stopped finding him attractive and I bucked up the courage to say that and he said "he was emotionally and physically happy with who he was it was me that had the problem" which was a sure sign of his depression. He tried to deflect all his bad feelings back on to me so I thought it was all my fault he made me feel like I was thick, pathetic even friends said that he put me down when they came for meals at ours so I stopped inviting them around as I was embarrassed


As I said earlier, a couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week in quality time. After that, it is healthy for each spouse to have interests of their own. You did no say how much time you spend on your running on the weekends. But it sounds like it is not excessive. He is wrong trying to get you to give up something that helps you be healthier and happier. He is just flat out wrong.

So he is happy with who he is.
You are happy with who you are.

It sounds like divorce is the solution.

Have you looked into the divorce laws in your state? Have you talked to a lawyer?


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> That is most definitely what has happened here but other things like nothing in common anymore, *I don't find him attractive and can't ever see me being intimate with him again. *The only reason to stay would be as my friend and father to my kid but that will leave a big emotional hole


Those things might not be addressed in that article, but they are part of the "Walk Away Wife Syndrome"

IF the two of you could work through it per those books, you could get all those feelings back.

But I see two problems to doing that. 

1) clearly he has not been willing to do the work and probably will not be willing until you are out the door. He will probably then see the light and it will be too late.

2) You are at the point of just about no return.... or maybe it's completely no return.


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> As I said earlier, a couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week in quality time. After that, it is healthy for each spouse to have interests of their own. You did no say how much time you spend on your running on the weekends. But it sounds like it is not excessive. He is wrong trying to get you to give up something that helps you be healthier and happier. He is just flat out wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> So he is happy with who he is.
> 
> You are happy with who you are.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like divorce is the solution.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you looked into the divorce laws in your state? Have you talked to a lawyer?




I don't want to hurt him so I have been slowly slowly allowing him to get his head around it all. Even though it is hard being under the same roof. I am slowly getting the house in order for a valuation he has muted that he wants to keep the house but I still don't think he realises it is happening. I've told him how much the bills are and gave him a potential plan of how the kids could work as he works a shift pattern I have tried to be as realistic as possible. He acknowledged he had seen it but hasn't commented on the thoughts and is making it hard for me to approach this. It's going to be a rocky road. I am scared of losing my friend but in reality I already have. We spend the evenings on separate rooms as we can't talk to each other it's fractured. He said to our daughter who is 12 the other day that "mum brings out the worst in people" she told me and I had to defend him saying he was tired. It's time to push further forward now I just feel sorry for him and guilty 


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## EleGirl

I'm not sure that dragging things out is all that less hurtful to him, it might be more hurtful.

Depending on the state you live in and your income levels, you could end up paying him alimony and child support.


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> What percentage of your joint income does he earn?
> 
> 
> 
> How many hours a week does he work?
> 
> 
> 
> The book "His Needs, Her Needs" explains to men that they need to do a fair share of the housework, child care, etc. Since you both work, he should be doing about 50% of it all (this includes yard care if you have one).
> 
> 
> 
> It is completely disrespectful of him to dump all that on you.




He earns 1/2 of what I do. He definitely doesn't do his fair share around the home. But when he does have a spurt of wanting to tidy up he makes me feel like I've failed at keeping on top of it. Writing all this down and talking to you about it is making me understand that maybe I am making the right decision and even though it will be painful in the interim it may be the best long term 


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> Those things might not be addressed in that article, but they are part of the "Walk Away Wife Syndrome"
> 
> 
> 
> IF the two of you could work through it per those books, you could get all those feelings back.
> 
> 
> 
> But I see two problems to doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) clearly he has not been willing to do the work and probably will not be willing until you are out the door. He will probably then see the light and it will be too late.
> 
> 
> 
> 2) You are at the point of just about no return.... or maybe it's completely no return.




I talk and think and write a diary and I have toyed with ending my marriage in a serious way for 3 years but stayed as my little boy was only 5 years old. He is a good dad. A good man. But a terrible husband in giving love and affection to me. I sound selfish but all I wanted was someone to share my interests and put an arm around me and love me. He likes golf I bought some clubs and tried so that we could enjoy something. He mainly does that while I am at work as he does shift work, so that didn't continue. I have an outgoing attitude now I want to be outside I want my kids to have an active life it's so sad and I cannot believe it has come to this. 


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## EleGirl

The two of you got together at a very young age. Our brains do not even fully mature until about 26. This happens very often with people who marry (or get together) at a very young age. Most people change dramatically at about age 26.

In the old world society people, especially women, married at a very young age. But the society put a lot of pressure on people to stay together. People had few choices.

Today society does not put pressure on people to stay together regardless of how awful a marriage might be. We believe that individual is more important. In some ways I agree with that. A person has to first be content within themselves. Marriage should augment that, not pull a person down.

You both changed. Neither of you is willing to make the changes needed to make it work. Sometimes the changes needed to make it work actually hurt the individual. For example he says that you need to quit the running. If you quit that, it will cause you harm. And honestly I don't think it will fix a thing... if anything it will just make you more miserable.

You two of have grown up and changed. Your children will do better if you are happier in your life. Watching a sham marriage will just teach them that this is all they can expect in life.


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> The two of you got together at a very young age. Our brains do not even fully mature until about 26. This happens very often with people who marry (or get together) at a very young age. Most people change dramatically at about age 26.
> 
> 
> 
> In the old world society people, especially women, married at a very young age. But the society put a lot of pressure on people to stay together. People had few choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Today society does not put pressure on people to stay together regardless of how awful a marriage might be. We believe that individual is more important. In some ways I agree with that. A person has to first be content within themselves. Marriage should augment that, not pull a person down.
> 
> 
> 
> You both changed. Neither of you is willing to make the changes needed to make it work. Sometimes the changes needed to make it work actually hurt the individual. For example he says that you need to quit the running. If you quit that, it will cause you harm. And honestly I don't think it will fix a thing... if anything it will just make you more miserable.
> 
> 
> 
> You two of have grown up and changed. Your children will do better if you are happier in your life. Watching a sham marriage will just teach them that this is all they can expect in life.




Thank you. Thanks so much for talking this through with me. It has been a great help when I was feeling really down and negative about my decision. I know it's right I just keep having wobbles after 22 years - I've never even finished with a boyfriend never mind leave my husband. I have to do this for me and the kids. Thank you again x 


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## EleGirl

It's hard. I know it is. Been there, done that.

But in the end, I am so glad that I did. My son is much better off for it too.


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## Jessica38

summer41 said:


> Sorry for the long post
> 
> 
> Hi I am new to these boards but totally lost. I have been married for 22 years. I was 18 when we met. I loved my husband then boyfriend with all my heart he was my everything. I did everything with him he was my lover and best friend. I lost touch with most of my girlfriends. 9 years later We eventually got our first house, got engaged got married and I qualified as an accountant and then fell pregnant.
> I got post natal depression but he didn't understand. That's when things started to crack. He started being uncaring, turning the Other way if I was upset. had no one to help me or show some love and understanding he made me feel like I was mental why couldn't I just crack on...I went to counselling but still struggled with my weight and body image (I had put 6 stone on)
> Over the next 4 years I felt low and couldn't fully shake off the sadness but was doing ok at work being promoted. His sex drive dipped and he started to pile on the weight.
> I fell pregnant 4 years later with my second child, again bam post natal depression and I developed an eating disorder to lose my weight. My first child went to school and I met some more mums who got me into running to help with my low mood it worked! I felt lighter in my moods, but my husband resented me for it, wouldn't watch me race didn't like me having friends; would put me down in a manipulative way. They made comments, my daughter made a comment that mummy doesn't eat with us anymore so I booked myself in with a psychologist to sort myself out and after many long sessions I felt like me again. She told me to keep running it was good for me but the more I ran the more my husband didn't support, I wanted him to become part of my "running family" but he wasn't interested so I stopped asking him.
> 
> Are you training/competing with males or are you in a female-only group? There is a thread here about a wife who was running with men and it hurt her marriage. If this has anything to do with your husband's reasons for being jealous, he might have a valid point- though obviously the way he's communicating that is not good for your marriage. Another issue I see is that he doesn't agree with your time away from the family. This too is valid- couples should agree how they spend their time, otherwise you're guilty of independent behavior- doing something you know bothers your spouse. This breeds great resentment. It doesn't mean you can't exercise, but you two should be meeting each other's emotional needs in marriage, spending at least 15 hours a week on recreational companionship, sex, conversation, and affection. Without this time, you risk falling out of love (as you can see). This is the premise of licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Harley's work and plan to restore love in marriages.
> 
> Then he started putting more weight on, snoring I couldn't sleep I moved myself into the spare bedroom on a blow up bed. I asked for relate I asked for him to see the doctor as he was depressed this was 3 years ago and he refused. We grew apart. The comments saying I saw my children as a burden I trained too much. It broke my heart. I said if we didn't sort this out our marriage was in trouble.
> He is not showing care for you when he won't get his snoring issue medically addressed so you can get the rest you need. This is a problem.
> 
> Sure enough 3 years on after 6 years of being unhappy I have a 12 year old and a 8 year old and I've said our marriage is over. I love him like a brother not a husband. He finally agreed to relate which we did but it didn't work; the counsellor acknowledged his complete lack of empathy.
> He has buried his head again and is refusing to look at his finances. I feel sorry for him I keep wobbling between my decision as I do love Him I have been with him more than half my life but it's in the wrong way. I worry about the kids and how they will cope, but this is pulling me down.
> Any advice would be helpful. Feel rubbish that i am a Horrible person
> 
> You're not a horrible person. You're not in love with your husband, but that can be fixed, if you're both willing. Because you have children, I'd suggest giving it one last shot, but not with your current MC, who has shown she can't help restore love in your marriage. I'd go to your husband and tell him that you want to work to have a happy marriage with him, and ask him if he'd be willing to try marital coaching with Marriage Builders. It's an online program that will give you both a plan to fall back in love. I see both of you making (common) mistakes in your marriage that need to be addressed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001

EleGirl said:


> Could you please explain what this means? I have never seen the word "relate" used like this and am not clear what you mean. I can guess. But I'd rather have you clarify.
> 
> You are not a horrible person. The two of you have a pretty common problem in that you have grown apart. It is possible to fix this, but it would take both of you working on it to fix it.
> 
> How many hours a week to you spend on your running?
> 
> How man hours a week do you and your husband spend in quality time together, just the two of you with no children or friends or family around?


Relate is the government run marriage counselling group in the U.K.


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## summer41

Thanks jessica38 he has admitted he is depressed and admits that he has been for a number of years. I asked him to go to the doctors and try anything and he won't have medication or speak to a counsellor so basically he won't help himself. He blames me for his depression. I run with mainly women. In the outset I wanted him to come with me - not necessarily to run, but to meet the other partners to socialise with them so our kids could play too but he didn't want to as running is boring, they don't all talk running it's fun with nice people but as he refused that then became my happy place with like minded people and he fell further away. I encouraged Over the years for him to play golf more with his friends but he won't. While I had post natal depression one of the main issues was that I had to do everything for the kids I wouldn't even like him putting them to bed which of course isn't right: it took my psychologist a long time to break through this thought process which now is balanced between making my self well by running and by spending time With the family, with my stressful job and body image problems that still lurk around in the background running helps. His reactions to me being upset in the counselling sessions were blank, no empathy at all; his thought process is that he is right and I am well the way he makes me feel is still unwell in my head which isn't the case.  


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## Jessica38

summer41 said:


> Thanks jessica38 he has admitted he is depressed and admits that he has been for a number of years. I asked him to go to the doctors and try anything and he won't have medication or speak to a counsellor so basically he won't help himself. He blames me for his depression. I run with mainly women. In the outset I wanted him to come with me - not necessarily to run, but to meet the other partners to socialise with them so our kids could play too but he didn't want to as running is boring, they don't all talk running it's fun with nice people but as he refused that then became my happy place with like minded people and he fell further away. I encouraged Over the years for him to play golf more with his friends but he won't. While I had post natal depression one of the main issues was that I had to do everything for the kids I wouldn't even like him putting them to bed which of course isn't right: it took my psychologist a long time to break through this thought process which now is balanced between making my self well by running and by spending time With the family, with my stressful job and body image problems that still lurk around in the background running helps. His reactions to me being upset in the counselling sessions were blank, no empathy at all; his thought process is that he is right and I am well the way he makes me feel is still unwell in my head which isn't the case.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, his ongoing depression is likely the reason why he he lacks empathy for you. I'm sorry, with 2 children, that must be VERY difficult, to say the least.

The problem with continuing to run without him after you've invited him to join, is that he still doesn't agree to it, and you're still doing it anyway. If he doesn't like running (totally valid), then the options to brainstorm with him become: doing an activity you BOTH enjoy together, or you doing the activity on your own AFTER you've scheduled time to meet the need for emotional connection with him (15 hours a week to maintain romantic love). The two of you could walk together instead a few times a week while you run the other days (this would also help his health). Or spend some of that time practicing yoga to help you stretch on your off days, and give your husband some relief for his depression/weight. There are many other possibilities, I'm just suggesting a few to show that you are both engaging in behaviors that are not best for the relationship. You've both neglected to put the marriage first. That means you can both start making changes to fix this and it very likely will repair the marriage. But you both have to be on board. You both need to start putting the marriage first and showing each other extraordinary care.


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## summer41

Jessica38 said:


> Yes, his ongoing depression is likely the reason why he he lacks empathy for you. I'm sorry, with 2 children, that must be VERY difficult, to say the least.
> 
> The problem with continuing to run without him after you've invited him to join, is that he still doesn't agree to it, and you're still doing it anyway. If he doesn't like running (totally valid), then the options to brainstorm with him become: doing an activity you BOTH enjoy together, or you doing the activity on your own AFTER you've scheduled time to meet the need for emotional connection with him (15 hours a week to maintain romantic love). The two of you could walk together instead a few times a week while you run the other days (this would also help his health). Or spend some of that time practicing yoga to help you stretch on your off days, and give your husband some relief for his depression/weight. There are many other possibilities, I'm just suggesting a few to show that you are both engaging in behaviors that are not best for the relationship. You've both neglected to put the marriage first. That means you can both start making changes to fix this and it very likely will repair the marriage. But you both have to be on board. You both need to start putting the marriage first and showing each other extraordinary care.




I think it all boils down to him not liking what I have achieved. When we met I was quiet just started studying to become an accountant and now I have a very good job I am more confident more friends I lost 6 stone after having my kids and he is still doing what he was doing when we met. 

I understand the need to spend time together and I have tried. But he falls asleep or he games. He blames his work for the sleep but he does this just after he has woken up. 

When we did spend time at night we would have awkward silence. So I would busy myself with washing or just go to bed to avoid it. 

I tried many times to get him to talk, but he would just carry on watching tv or say "what are YOU on about now?" Like I was moaning again when all I wanted was to try and talk about making things better but he would just hit me with - stop running and stop going the gym before work, which I did for a short time but in the mornings he would then get up and fall asleep or get up and watch tv while I ran around doing everything for he kids breakfasts, which then made me think that was the reason he wanted me there. 

I don't run much and when I do it's to alleviate the stress from work. It's a balancing act but when he isn't willing to take on board some of the things that he has said and done then I am not sure we can move forward, I am not without my faults I get grumpy through frustration and can snap I know I can. But I feel 100% rejected by him 


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## Evinrude58

You have totally fallen out of love with him. Nothing he can do will fix that. You've said it's hard to be under the same roof with him. 
If he is a good man like you say, this could be fixed if you both wanted that. You dont.

Only one thing to do. Sadly


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## Thundarr

Summer41, you shouldn't feel guily for not being able to make him get better. But that's what we do; we second guess ourselves and spin 'what ifs' around over and over. Just remember that one ' what if ' is that you leaving will change the dynamic which could be what he needs.


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## Jessica38

summer41 said:


> I think it all boils down to him not liking what I have achieved. When we met I was quiet just started studying to become an accountant and now I have a very good job I am more confident more friends I lost 6 stone after having my kids and he is still doing what he was doing when we met.
> 
> Do you know that for sure? Has he told you exactly what bothers him about your running? Has he told you that he doesn't like your career success? If so, it sounds like a strong case of you moving forward in life and him simply not.
> 
> I understand the need to spend time together and I have tried. But he falls asleep or he games. He blames his work for the sleep but he does this just after he has woken up.
> 
> He's not able to meet the important needs in marriage then: conversation, recreational companionship, affection, and sex.
> When we did spend time at night we would have awkward silence. So I would busy myself with washing or just go to bed to avoid it.
> 
> You're used to meeting your own needs so you resort to independent behavior instead of communicating with him that you're not having fun together. He needs that feedback so he can make it better...if he's willing to work on the relationship.I'm not blaming you for your way of coping- just noting that the two of you have become roommates.
> 
> I tried many times to get him to talk, but he would just carry on watching tv or say "what are YOU on about now?" Like I was moaning again when all I wanted was to try and talk about making things better but he would just hit me with - stop running and stop going the gym before work, which I did for a short time but in the mornings he would then get up and fall asleep or get up and watch tv while I ran around doing everything for he kids breakfasts, which then made me think that was the reason he wanted me there.
> 
> Does he engage with the kids?
> 
> I don't run much and when I do it's to alleviate the stress from work. It's a balancing act but when he isn't willing to take on board some of the things that he has said and done then I am not sure we can move forward, I am not without my faults I get grumpy through frustration and can snap I know I can. But I feel 100% rejected by him
> 
> I understand, and I completely see how running is the ONE thing you do for yourself to feel good. I'm not blaming you, but you are in the habit of turning away from your husband to feel good instead of turning toward him and working together to get your needs met. It could be that he simply isn't willing or able to meet your needs, in which case, you should separate from him.
> 
> Before that though, I think you need to make sure that you give him an opportunity to work on your marriage. Tell him exactly what you need, using the plan in His Needs, Her Needs and Lovebusters. I think you should contact Marriage Builders- Dr. Harley will talk to you for free and give you his expert advice. Your husband sounds neglectful in this marriage and you've been coping by no longer expecting him to meet any of your needs. Do you want to save your marriage or are you done? If you go with the Marriage Builders plan, they will likely tell you to let your husband know how unhappy you are and that you need him to work with you to fix the marriage. If he refuses, you'll be advised to separate, letting him know that you will consider reconciling with him if he is able to show you that he will meet your needs and care for you the way you deserve in marriage.You'll be advised to separate for a year so he can use that time to prove to you that he can be a husband to you. I really think that's what you're dealing with here- a neglectful husband, and if you don't address it now, another 10 years will go by and you'll likely grow to hate him. And your children are getting this example of an unhealthy marriage. Again, I'm sorry. Neglect in marriage is one of the most hurtful things for many women.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## summer41

Thank you. I will try and talk to him again tonight. I think maybe I've gone too far and that I cannot see way of reconciling. I will let you know how it went. Thank you all for your advice I really appreciate it 


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## MattMatt

summer41 said:


> Sorry for the long post
> 
> 
> Hi I am new to these boards but totally lost. I have been married for 22 years. I was 18 when we met. I loved my husband then boyfriend with all my heart he was my everything. I did everything with him he was my lover and best friend. I lost touch with most of my girlfriends. 9 years later We eventually got our first house, got engaged got married and I qualified as an accountant and then fell pregnant.
> I got post natal depression but he didn't understand. That's when things started to crack. He started being uncaring, turning the Other way if I was upset. had no one to help me or show some love and understanding he made me feel like I was mental why couldn't I just crack on...I went to counselling but still struggled with my weight and body image (I had put 6 stone on)
> Over the next 4 years I felt low and couldn't fully shake off the sadness but was doing ok at work being promoted. His sex drive dipped and he started to pile on the weight.
> I fell pregnant 4 years later with my second child, again bam post natal depression and I developed an eating disorder to lose my weight. My first child went to school and I met some more mums who got me into running to help with my low mood it worked! I felt lighter in my moods, but my husband resented me for it, wouldn't watch me race didn't like me having friends; would put me down in a manipulative way. They made comments, my daughter made a comment that mummy doesn't eat with us anymore so I booked myself in with a psychologist to sort myself out and after many long sessions I felt like me again. She told me to keep running it was good for me but the more I ran the more my husband didn't support, I wanted him to become part of my "running family" but he wasn't interested so I stopped asking him.
> Then he started putting more weight on, snoring I couldn't sleep I moved myself into the spare bedroom on a blow up bed. I asked for relate I asked for him to see the doctor as he was depressed this was 3 years ago and he refused. We grew apart. The comments saying I saw my children as a burden I trained too much. It broke my heart. I said if we didn't sort this out our marriage was in trouble.
> Sure enough 3 years on after 6 years of being unhappy I have a 12 year old and a 8 year old and I've said our marriage is over. I love him like a brother not a husband. He finally agreed to relate which we did but it didn't work; the counsellor acknowledged his complete lack of empathy.
> He has buried his head again and is refusing to look at his finances. I feel sorry for him I keep wobbling between my decision as I do love Him I have been with him more than half my life but it's in the wrong way. I worry about the kids and how they will cope, but this is pulling me down.
> Any advice would be helpful. Feel rubbish that i am a Horrible person
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You were a great girlfriend a loyal and good wife and a wonderful mother who coped with problems that would have broken lesser people.

Unfortunately your husband was not worthy of the love you gave him.

You and your children deserve so much more. 

We will be here for you. If you want anything, just whistle!


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## summer41

So I've sat him down tonight and said I haven't changed my mind. He said he thinks he had a mini breakdown today, lost some time/memory. Said he gets up before the kids (they are on holiday from school but I have to work) and gets all his tears out before they see him.
He said he doesn't think he will make it through the split and that he is just enjoying summer with the kids before he can't afford to provide for them anymore.
I said to him it felt like emotional blackmail. He denied it. He was very upset but i said I cannot stay with you it's not a normal loving relationship. 
He then went on to say the kids will be crushed by it and that his parents will be offended that they helped us 13 years ago to set up our family home and now we are throwing it in their face, I tried to say that we didn't know then this wouldn't work. We've been together 22 years but the last 6 have taken their toll.
I explained I wanted to help him work out his finances and he there for him, I don't hate Him and wouldn't see him high and dry but i cannot remain his wife.

I feel guilt and sadness. I feel like I have broken him. He was such a strong man, I feel like he is throwing every emotional trigger at me that's possible. He denied that he had depression today but he does. 
I feel a bad person 


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## summer41

*Feel dreadful*

One minute I feel positive and it's the right choice but then I remember how we used to be many years ago and it's that, which I feel I am grieving for  


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## sokillme

*Re: Feel dreadful*

This is rough. I agree he sounds depressed. He has to want to help himself you can't make him. Maybe it's too late, maybe if he lost weight and got back to being the man you fell in love with the feelings would return. Or if you are done, your done. The way you are feeling is no surprise. It's sad, it sounds like his mental health contributed a lot to it, that is very sad. You really tried to get him to change but he didn't, that's sad as well.


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## arbitrator

*Re: Feel dreadful*

*You have every right to exercise any course of action against him that you may desire! So sorry to hear of your sad plight!

The marriage and romance seems to be gone, so if there's really no other recourse, you might want to talk to a good family attorney to help assess your legal custodial and property rights!*


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## SunCMars

summer41 said:


> So I've sat him down tonight and said I haven't changed my mind. He said he thinks he had a mini breakdown today, lost some time/memory. Said he gets up before the kids (they are on holiday from school but I have to work) and gets all his tears out before they see him.
> He said he doesn't think he will make it through the split and that he is just enjoying summer with the kids before he can't afford to provide for them anymore.
> I said to him it felt like emotional blackmail. He denied it. He was very upset but i said I cannot stay with you it's not a normal loving relationship.
> He then went on to say the kids will be crushed by it and that his parents will be offended that they helped us 13 years ago to set up our family home and now we are throwing it in their face, I tried to say that we didn't know then this wouldn't work. We've been together 22 years but the last 6 have taken their toll.
> I explained I wanted to help him work out his finances and he there for him, I don't hate Him and wouldn't see him high and dry but i cannot remain his wife.
> 
> I feel guilt and sadness. I feel like I have broken him. He was such a strong man, I feel like *he is throwing every emotional trigger at me that's possible.* He denied that he had depression today but he does.
> I feel a bad person
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What other leverage does he have but emotional triggers?

He is desperate....desperate and weak.

Go ahead with the separation and divorce.

To soothe him over a bit, tell him once the separation and divorce are final, you will reassess his progress [if any]. 

Give him a little hope. Tell his family all the particulars. Tell them about his need to improve during this period.

In all honesty, I think he will squander this last chance. And that is OK, too. You want away from this man. I do not blame you.


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## summer41

*Re: Feel dreadful*



SunCMars said:


> She said she was new to these boards and was lost. Hopefully, she will stay with us and see how posting here works.




Sorry @EleGirl don't know how I did that ? Please merge them. I am hopeless at this technical stuff. Was a complete mess last night after my conversation with H 
Thank you again! X


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## EleGirl

*Re: Feel dreadful*



summer41 said:


> Sorry @EleGirl don't know how I did that ? Please merge them. I am hopeless at this technical stuff. Was a complete mess last night after my conversation with H
> Thank you again! X


I merged your two threads. You will get better input this way.


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## EleGirl

*Re: Feel dreadful*



summer41 said:


> One minute I feel positive and it's the right choice but then I remember how we used to be many years ago and it's that, which I feel I am grieving for


I'm sure that you are all over the place. This is not an easy decision to make and even harder to carry out.

Do you have a plan for what you want to do? I guess you want to get a divorce. So have you written up a list of all the things you need to do to get it done? While this might seem like a mountain too high to climb, having a plan that you can work one item at a time might help you. Then you just need to think about working the next thing on your list. And once you have done all the steps, you will be where you want to be.

Have you checked your state laws about things like alimony? Since you earn twice as much as your husband, you will most likely be paying him child support until your youngest turns 18. Then there is a possibility of you paying alimony/spousal-support. If you will share what state you live in, I'd be glad to find some info on divorce that might be helpful to you.

I'll check back with you tomorrow. Today was a long day for me so I have not been online much. I should be around here more tomorrow.


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## cc48kel

summer41 said:


> Guyincolorado that's my worry our son who is 8 doesn't see us cuddling holding hands or even laughing. I am being soft. I don't want to hurt my husband but I realise that I am going to have to keep reiterating over and over again that this is happening.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh my.... When my son was younger about 7 or 8 he would ask those questions.. Why don't you kiss and hold hands? I lied and said we do in private!! So sad... I am affectionate with my kids-- as much as they allow.

I'm also trying to wrap my head around leaving him ad often go back and forth.. It's the right thing to do but don't know if I can 'stomach' it...


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## summer41

cc48kel said:


> Oh my.... When my son was younger about 7 or 8 he would ask those questions.. Why don't you kiss and hold hands? I lied and said we do in private!! So sad... I am affectionate with my kids-- as much as they allow.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also trying to wrap my head around leaving him ad often go back and forth.. It's the right thing to do but don't know if I can 'stomach' it...




I was fortunate enough to get in with my counsellor at work today. I am struggling now due to my conversation with my H last night. Some of the comments scared me, as in is he suicidal. He is losing blocks of time now and memory, the counsellor said that could mean his head is about to burst that can lead to psychosis. So now I am panicking that if I do go through with it (which I know I have to do) that he may hurt himself I couldn't live with that. I am in desperate mode now. Trapped. Damned if I do and damned if I don't. 




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## jb02157

I don't see this as a situation that necessarily needs to be a divorce. Both of you are sad and have issues with each other but if you agree to work on them I think you'll be in a much better place. I kinda know what you're going through, I love bicycling but my wife chooses not to join me and stay home and get fatter and more depressed. Sure I'd like her to join me and I wish she would work through her depression but I'm not going to divorce her over it. We have worse problems to work through. I would recommend that you try to work though your issues together, it's better than giving up.


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## summer41

jb02157 said:


> I don't see this as a situation that necessarily needs to be a divorce. Both of you are sad and have issues with each other but if you agree to work on them I think you'll be in a much better place. I kinda know what you're going through, I love bicycling but my wife chooses not to join me and stay home and get fatter and more depressed. Sure I'd like her to join me and I wish she would work through her depression but I'm not going to divorce her over it. We have worse problems to work through. I would recommend that you try to work though your issues together, it's better than giving up.




It's not just the issues around him not joining me. It's the put downs. The manipulative emotional behaviour making me feel thick and pathetic a rubbish mum deflecting all his bad feelings on me and after 6 years of me trying I am worn out. He won't see anyone about his depression, he won't talk to me. He doesn't "do" emotions or talking about them so I am struggling as to where I can go from here. The only way in his mind that I can make it all ok is to stop running and doing things with my friends which I don't do that much. Then he says miraculously that will make it all ok. That's when he admits he has depression. He now says he doesn't have depression which is a worrying place for him to be


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## jb02157

summer41 said:


> It's not just the issues around him not joining me. It's the put downs. The manipulative emotional behaviour making me feel thick and pathetic a rubbish mum deflecting all his bad feelings on me and after 6 years of me trying I am worn out. He won't see anyone about his depression, he won't talk to me. He doesn't "do" emotions or talking about them so I am struggling as to where I can go from here. The only way in his mind that I can make it all ok is to stop running and doing things with my friends which I don't do that much. Then he says miraculously that will make it all ok. That's when he admits he has depression. He now says he doesn't have depression which is a worrying place for him to be


ok so give up the running with the stipulation he cuts all the crap, it's better than putting your kids through a divorce.


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## summer41

jb02157 said:


> ok so give up the running with the stipulation he cuts all the crap, it's better than putting your kids through a divorce.




I disagree but I don't know your situation. Thank you for your time 


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## summer41

jb02157 said:


> ok so give up the running with the stipulation he cuts all the crap, it's better than putting your kids through a divorce.




I feel I have to reiterate that by giving up something that pulled myself out of my dark place would be very detrimental to the children and would put both parents in a black hole. I think that two happy homes are better than one that is filled with confusing signals about what a relationship should look like and one that is filled with atmosphere. 



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## jb02157

summer41 said:


> I feel I have to reiterate that by giving up something that pulled myself out of my dark place would be very detrimental to the children and would put both parents in a black hole. I think that two happy homes are better than one that is filled with confusing signals about what a relationship should look like and one that is filled with atmosphere.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seems to me it would be two unhappy homes. Your H clearly doesn't want a divorce. It seems this is more about your not willing to give up running at the expense of divorce. I know that it pulled you from a dark place but it's causing strain with your husband. 

I don't want to fight with you over this, I want to help you. Shouldn't you try to fix things with your H and at least temporarily give up the running and see where that puts you. Maybe if your H sees that you are willing to set the divorce and running aside for awhile he would be willing to work with you on the marriage? If he still goes back to his old self, you can then say you've given in as much as you could, and even were willing to give up something that means alot to you to fix the marriage and your H wasn't interested.


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## summer41

jb02157 said:


> Seems to me it would be two unhappy homes. Your H clearly doesn't want a divorce. It seems this is more about your not willing to give up running at the expense of divorce. I know that it pulled you from a dark place but it's causing strain with your husband.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to fight with you over this, I want to help you. Shouldn't you try to fix things with your H and at least temporarily give up the running and see where that puts you. Maybe if your H sees that you are willing to set the divorce and running aside for awhile he would be willing to work with you on the marriage? If he still goes back to his old self, you can then say you've given in as much as you could, and even were willing to give up something that means alot to you to fix the marriage and your H wasn't interested.




I have tried that 3 years ago I gave up it all. I tumbled down and he didn't change. I carried on for the children so that I didn't tear their world apart. Instead I tore my own apart to save them. Instead I lost myself in the process.

Thank you for your advice 


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## Jessica38

OP, I thought this was why you came here too, to get advice about your marriage? It seems to me you already decided to end it. 

I agree with @jb02157- why not give it one last shot with the plan I suggested before throwing in the towel? If you didn't have kids....that would be a different story. But you do and since your husband sounds desperate not to lose his family, don't you think there is a way you can try to work on it for another 6 months or a year? Even if you separate now, you can tell him that you'd be willing to reconcile if he's able to prove to you and the kids that he is getting treatment, and behaving like a married man and father should by engaging in the marriage and family. 

And when I asked if the running group was co-ed, you said it's mostly females. Are you training with other men? If so, I think he has a right to say it bothers him. My husband was really into a training that included other females. I was unable to go at the same time, even though I practice the same sport. A few of these women started telling me they missed by husband when he was busy with me and our family. I was deeply hurt so he stopped going, even though he loves this sport. We found an alternative that works very well for both of us and is better for our marriage. 

My point is that in marriage, our happiness should not come at the expense of our spouse. We work together to come up wil alternatives that are best for the marriage. I get that your husband hasn't been able to do that due to his depression, and I have read that depression in men is very difficult for wives, often much harder than if the situation were reversed. I get that you're unhappy in the marriage, but why not give him a chance to change with a big wake up call that he's about to lose you? And I still think that you need to reevaluate your running activity and negotiate a better solution for the marriage.


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> I disagree but I don't know your situation. Thank you for your time


I also disagree. The running is a healthy activity that benefits your physical and mental health.

It would be different if you spent hours and hours a week at it, ignoring your home, children and husband. But from what you said, you do not. And even if this were the case, you would not need to give it up entirely, only to the point that you have time for family and home.


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## Jessica38

EleGirl said:


> I also disagree. The running is a healthy activity that benefits your physical and mental health.
> 
> It would be different if you spent hours and hours a week at it, ignoring your home, children and husband. But from what you said, you do not. And even if this were the case, you would not need to give it up entirely, only to the point that you have time for family and home.


Or only to the point that addresses your husband's concerns. If you're training with the opposite sex, he has a valid concern.


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## 3Xnocharm

Jessica38 said:


> OP, I thought this was why you came here too, to get advice about your marriage? It seems to me you already decided to end it.
> 
> I agree with @jb02157- why not give it one last shot with the plan I suggested before throwing in the towel? If you didn't have kids....that would be a different story. But you do and since your husband sounds desperate not to lose his family, don't you think there is a way you can try to work on it for another 6 months or a year? Even if you separate now, you can tell him that you'd be willing to reconcile if he's able to prove to you and the kids that he is getting treatment, and behaving like a married man and father should by engaging in the marriage and family.
> 
> And when I asked if the running group was co-ed, you said it's mostly females. Are you training with other men? If so, I think he has a right to say it bothers him. My husband was really into a training that included other females. I was unable to go at the same time, even though I practice the same sport. A few of these women started telling me they missed by husband when he was busy with me and our family. I was deeply hurt so he stopped going, even though he loves this sport. We found an alternative that works very well for both of us and is better for our marriage.
> 
> My point is that in marriage, our happiness should not come at the expense of our spouse. We work together to come up wil alternatives that are best for the marriage. I get that your husband hasn't been able to do that due to his depression, and I have read that depression in men is very difficult for wives, often much harder than if the situation were reversed. I get that you're unhappy in the marriage, but why not give him a chance to change with a big wake up call that he's about to lose you? And I still think that you need to reevaluate your running activity and negotiate a better solution for the marriage.


Jessica38, why are you not understanding that this man is choosing to NOT help himself, therefore not helping his marriage? He CHOOSES to sit around in depression, despite his wife's pleads for him to GET SOME HELP. He CHOOSES to sit home instead of joining his wife in activities. Instead he is upset that she will not sit and wallow with him, which is what he wants, the activity she is involved in doesnt matter. 

Have you ever been with a depressed spouse? Have you ever been with a spouse who wants nothing to do with you and is not interested in participating in your marriage? If not, let me tell you, it is a LIFE SUCK. And the hardest part is that NO ONE can make another person help themselves. I think the huge guilt trip and giant pity party displayed by summer41's husband was 100% manipulation, in order to get her to stay so that he can continue NOT doing something for himself. 

This man sounds SO MUCH like my first husband, its scary. He was depressed while we were married (and before) and no matter what I tried, he would not admit it and would not seek to do anything about it. He was completely checked out of our marriage, had nothing to do with me, and was completely absorbed in himself. Once we seperated, he did finally see the doctor and got on antidepressants. He frequently told me how much better he felt. After a couple of years, he went off of them, and never would start them again. He remarried, and they divorced after about five years, as he continued having the same issues since he did nothing to make changes for himself. He blamed the world for his problem and refused to help himself. (probably because it was all EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT) 

Summer has been making an effort to encourage her H to do SOMETHING. He doesnt want to. Why keep hounding her to keep trying, when the other half insists on not participating?


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## Jessica38

3Xnocharm said:


> Jessica38, why are you not understanding that this man is choosing to NOT help himself, therefore not helping his marriage? He CHOOSES to sit around in depression, despite his wife's pleads for him to GET SOME HELP. He CHOOSES to sit home instead of joining his wife in activities. Instead he is upset that she will not sit and wallow with him, which is what he wants, the activity she is involved in doesnt matter.
> 
> Have you ever been with a depressed spouse? Have you ever been with a spouse who wants nothing to do with you and is not interested in participating in your marriage? If not, let me tell you, it is a LIFE SUCK. And the hardest part is that NO ONE can make another person help themselves. I think the huge guilt trip and giant pity party displayed by summer41's husband was 100% manipulation, in order to get her to stay so that he can continue NOT doing something for himself.
> 
> This man sounds SO MUCH like my first husband, its scary. He was depressed while we were married (and before) and no matter what I tried, he would not admit it and would not seek to do anything about it. He was completely checked out of our marriage, had nothing to do with me, and was completely absorbed in himself. Once we seperated, he did finally see the doctor and got on antidepressants. He frequently told me how much better he felt. After a couple of years, he went off of them, and never would start them again. He remarried, and they divorced after about five years, as he continued having the same issues since he did nothing to make changes for himself. He blamed the world for his problem and refused to help himself. (probably because it was all EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT)
> 
> Summer has been making an effort to encourage her H to do SOMETHING. He doesnt want to. Why keep hounding her to keep trying, when the other half insists on not participating?


Because she has children and depression is treatable. When we make vows, we promise to love and care for our spouse in sickness and in health. I'm no stranger to PPD and have witnessed how difficult it is on a family. I do not have experience with a depressed husband though and my heart goes out to the OP. His reaction to her ending it is not one of apathy- he does care. 

I agree with separating until he demonstrates that he is getting treatment and that he can engage in the marriage and family. But I don't agree with throwing away the marriage entirely until he is given a chance to prove himself. A separation may be the wake-up call he needs to get help.

And I do know that running clubs/training have hurt marriages when the opposite sex is involved. I have no idea if that is what is going on here, but the OP said that she trains *mostly* with women. When your marriage is struggling, training with the OS where support and endorphins are involved can lead to bonding.

In short, I understand that this situation is extremely difficult on the OP and anyone else who has gone through it. I do think she needs to do something here, as she can't live like this either. But I don't agree that she should give up on the marriage without giving it one last shot at shaking him up enough to get treatment and prove he can be there for her and the family.


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## summer41

3Xnocharm said:


> Jessica38, why are you not understanding that this man is choosing to NOT help himself, therefore not helping his marriage? He CHOOSES to sit around in depression, despite his wife's pleads for him to GET SOME HELP. He CHOOSES to sit home instead of joining his wife in activities. Instead he is upset that she will not sit and wallow with him, which is what he wants, the activity she is involved in doesnt matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever been with a depressed spouse? Have you ever been with a spouse who wants nothing to do with you and is not interested in participating in your marriage? If not, let me tell you, it is a LIFE SUCK. And the hardest part is that NO ONE can make another person help themselves. I think the huge guilt trip and giant pity party displayed by summer41's husband was 100% manipulation, in order to get her to stay so that he can continue NOT doing something for himself.
> 
> 
> 
> This man sounds SO MUCH like my first husband, its scary. He was depressed while we were married (and before) and no matter what I tried, he would not admit it and would not seek to do anything about it. He was completely checked out of our marriage, had nothing to do with me, and was completely absorbed in himself. Once we seperated, he did finally see the doctor and got on antidepressants. He frequently told me how much better he felt. After a couple of years, he went off of them, and never would start them again. He remarried, and they divorced after about five years, as he continued having the same issues since he did nothing to make changes for himself. He blamed the world for his problem and refused to help himself. (probably because it was all EVERYONE ELSE'S FAULT)
> 
> 
> 
> Summer has been making an effort to encourage her H to do SOMETHING. He doesnt want to. Why keep hounding her to keep trying, when the other half insists on not participating?




Thank you. You have hit every nail on the head in that reply. I have begged on hands and knees for him to get help so that we can be a family over and over again to be met with complete and utter rejection. Time after time. 6 years it's been endured to the point I am wobbling between sitting it out for the kids yet it is in an environment that isn't healthy but we are a "family" or move on and let my kids see mums smiling again eventually.
I train / run with women. 


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## EleGirl

@summer41

I have some questions about the group you run with.

How many people are there in your running group?

How many of those people are men?


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## summer41

Jessica38 said:


> Because she has children and depression is treatable. When we make vows, we promise to love and care for our spouse in sickness and in health. I'm no stranger to PPD and have witnessed how difficult it is on a family. I do not have experience with a depressed husband though and my heart goes out to the OP. His reaction to her ending it is not one of apathy- he does care.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with separating until he demonstrates that he is getting treatment and that he can engage in the marriage and family. But I don't agree with throwing away the marriage entirely until he is given a chance to prove himself. A separation may be the wake-up call he needs to get help.
> 
> 
> 
> And I do know that running clubs/training have hurt marriages when the opposite sex is involved. I have no idea if that is what is going on here, but the OP said that she trains *mostly* with women. When your marriage is struggling, training with the OS where support and endorphins are involved can lead to bonding.
> 
> 
> 
> In short, I understand that this situation is extremely difficult on the OP and anyone else who has gone through it. I do think she needs to do something here, as she can't live like this either. But I don't agree that she should give up on the marriage without giving it one last shot at shaking him up enough to get treatment and prove he can be there for her and the family.




"Mostly" women is when their partners also join for social runs. This club is family orientated - kids too hence why I wanted him to come along to try and make or relationship work as he wasn't and this was the only way i could personally see a way forward he wouldn't go to relate he wouldn't go the doctors so maybe new friends that also involved the children as a FAMILY we could have a social side he could then maybe build friendships with the other men and have his own social side. The running was seen as a FAMILY way forward.

When I took my vows I was totally besotted with this man and I would love and care for him until the end but would you say that to a physically abused wife? I wouldn't and even though this is EMOTIONAL abuse that I have tried to cope with for years, the nasty comments - the nasty actions over the years I have brushed them aside thinking it was me or it's ok it's his illness; but no I am sorry we have to look for self preservation at a point. I still wobble between staying and going down to the family / marriage ethics but I am broken emotionally. Date nights I always had to arrange them to try and save our marriage he never did. 
Not once has he said he is upset about losing me, he is upset about family man outsider view. He is worried financially as also sometimes a depressed person just spends money like water.


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## EleGirl

Jessica38 said:


> Or only to the point that addresses your husband's concerns. If you're training with the opposite sex, he has a valid concern.


The OP says that she runs for about 20 minutes early in the morning BY HERSELF. Her husband objects to her doing this as well. That's not reasonable. She benefits in important ways from the exercise. He's unreasonable to expect her to give up something that works for her.


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## 3Xnocharm

Jessica38 said:


> Because she has children and depression is treatable. *When we make vows, we promise to love and care for our spouse in sickness and in health.* I'm no stranger to PPD and have witnessed how difficult it is on a family. I do not have experience with a depressed husband though and my heart goes out to the OP. His reaction to her ending it is not one of apathy- he does care.


So here is how the vows worked for him:



summer41 said:


> I got post natal depression but he didn't understand. That's when things started to crack. *He started being uncaring, turning the Other way if I was upset. had no one to help me or show some love and understanding he made me feel like I was mental why couldn't I just crack on...*I went to counselling but still struggled with my weight and body image (I had put 6 stone on)
> Over the next 4 years I felt low and couldn't fully shake off the sadness but was doing ok at work being promoted. His sex drive dipped and he started to pile on the weight.
> I fell pregnant 4 years later with my second child, again bam post natal depression and I developed an eating disorder to lose my weight. My first child went to school and I met some more mums who got me into running to help with my low mood it worked! I felt lighter in my moods, but my husband resented me for it, wouldn't watch me race didn't like me having friends; would put me down in a manipulative way.


Where was HER support when SHE was the one dealing with depression? Instead of being supportive and loving, he insulted her. She could very well turn and deal him the same treatment he gave her, but instead, she has tried to encourage him to get help and participate in life. 

summer41, I think your husband may need to be put into a treatment center. His reaction when you told him you were done does not bode well for his mental health. (on top of being completely manipulative) You may want to see about having him committed for a bit.


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## Jessica38

summer41 said:


> "Mostly" women is when their partners also join for social runs. This club is family orientated - kids too hence why I wanted him to come along to try and make or relationship work as he wasn't and this was the only way i could personally see a way forward he wouldn't go to relate he wouldn't go the doctors so maybe new friends that also involved the children as a FAMILY we could have a social side he could then maybe build friendships with the other men and have his own social side. The running was seen as a FAMILY way forward.
> 
> In a healthy marriage, spouses can negotiate activities they do for recreational companionship and family time. I get that yours is unhealthy and he offered no alternatives, other than to tell you he didn't like your running. I wanted to ask though because in a healthy marriage, doing it anyway without figuring out what his issues are, and continuing after he said it bothered him, is independent behavior (according to licensed Psych Dr. Harley and author of His Needs, Her Needs). Thanks for clarifying what was going on and that you are training with women, not men.
> 
> When I took my vows I was totally besotted with this man and I would love and care for him until the end but would you say that to a physically abused wife? I wouldn't and even though this is EMOTIONAL abuse that I have tried to cope with for years, the nasty comments - the nasty actions over the years I have brushed them aside thinking it was me or it's ok it's his illness; but no I am sorry we have to look for self preservation at a point. I still wobble between staying and going down to the family / marriage ethics but I am broken emotionally. Date nights I always had to arrange them to try and save our marriage he never did.
> 
> Would I say that an abused wife with children should separate from her husband until he gets treatment and proves that he can be a fit father and husband? Absolutely, and I've given you the same advice (again, based on what I've learned from Dr. Harley). I listen to his radio show while folding laundry and driving and he has cases like this a lot, so I'm sharing what I've learned in hopes that it will help you.
> 
> Not once has he said he is upset about losing me, he is upset about family man outsider view. He is worried financially as also sometimes a depressed person just spends money like water.
> 
> I got from your first post that you are trying to figure out what to do, and that leaving him is an option you're considering. It sounds like you're still vacillating between leaving him and staying. I suggested (and still do) that you put a plan in place and separate from him, but give him the conditions he will need to meet in order to reconcile. And give him 6-12 months to meet those VERY SPECIFIC conditions. I say this only because you have children. Otherwise, I'd tell you to file tomorrow.


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## Jessica38

EleGirl said:


> The OP says that she runs for about 20 minutes early in the morning BY HERSELF. Her husband objects to her doing this as well. That's not reasonable. She benefits in important ways from the exercise. He's unreasonable to expect her to give up something that works for her.


Agreed, but my question was about the group she runs with that she also mentioned. I wanted to make sure she wasn't running with the OS, meaning he had a legitimate reason to be bothered by it.


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## EleGirl

Jessica38 said:


> Because she has children and depression is treatable. When we make vows, we promise to love and care for our spouse in sickness and in health. I'm no stranger to PPD and have witnessed how difficult it is on a family. I do not have experience with a depressed husband though and my heart goes out to the OP. His reaction to her ending it is not one of apathy- he does care.


Yes depression is treatable. But a lot of people who have clinical depressions refuse to get the help that they need. At some point it because basically a choice on his part to abandon the relationship. Just because he is physically in the home does not mean that he is in the relationship.

There are more ways to carry out abandon a marriage than to walk out the door. Sitting there for years, angry, depressed, verbally attacking one's spouse is another form of abandoning the relationship.




Jessica38 said:


> I agree with separating until he demonstrates that he is getting treatment and that he can engage in the marriage and family. But I don't agree with throwing away the marriage entirely until he is given a chance to prove himself. A separation may be the wake-up call he needs to get help.


The OP said that he has 



Jessica38 said:


> And I do know that running clubs/training have hurt marriages when the opposite sex is involved. I have no idea if that is what is going on here, but the OP said that she trains *mostly* with women. When your marriage is struggling, training with the OS where support and endorphins are involved can lead to bonding.


You do not know if the opposite sex folks in her running group are hurting her marriage. Does this mean that if a woman works with men, that she has to quit her job because there are men at her job? Are we now following Islamic rules that state that non-family member men and women must be separated?

I belong to a master gardener group that has both men and women. Does that mean that I need to quit the organization because there are men in it? Get real. Almost every one would have to quit because almost everyone is married... men and woman.

I also have a walking group and another special interest group that have both men and women. Do I need to quit those too? 

Get real.



Jessica38 said:


> In short, I understand that this situation is extremely difficult on the OP and anyone else who has gone through it. I do think she needs to do something here, as she can't live like this either. But I don't agree that she should give up on the marriage without giving it one last shot at shaking him up enough to get treatment and prove he can be there for her and the family.


She already gave him a last shot and he did not take it. How many last shots does she need to give him? How many years does she have to live in a situation that is not mentally healthy for her and for her children?


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> @summer41
> 
> 
> 
> I have some questions about the group you run with.
> 
> 
> 
> How many people are there in your running group?
> 
> 
> 
> How many of those people are men?




I run with usually 5/6 women weekly. once a month a social run meaning that some not all of the husbands would Come but only if their wives / partners where there 


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## EleGirl

Jessica38 said:


> OP, I thought this was why you came here too, to get advice about your marriage? It seems to me you already decided to end it.


Did you notice the forum in which she posted? It's about divorce, not fixing her marriage. so yea, she's made up her mind to leave. She is not looking for input to fix a marriage that she is done with.


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## EleGirl

summer41 said:


> I run with usually 5/6 women weekly. once a month a social run meaning that some not all of the husbands would Come but only if their wives / partners where there


Thanks for clarifying that the assumptions being made by some are way out of line.


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## Jessica38

EleGirl said:


> Yes depression is treatable. But a lot of people who have clinical depressions refuse to get the help that they need. At some point it because basically a choice on his part to abandon the relationship. Just because he is physically in the home does not mean that he is in the relationship.
> 
> There are more ways to carry out abandon a marriage than to walk out the door. Sitting there for years, angry, depressed, verbally attacking one's spouse is another form of abandoning the relationship.
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> The OP said that he has
> 
> 
> 
> You do not know if the opposite sex folks in her running group are hurting her marriage. Does this mean that if a woman works with men, that she has to quit her job because there are men at her job? Are we now following Islamic rules that state that non-family member men and women must be separated?
> 
> I belong to a master gardener group that has both men and women. Does that mean that I need to quit the organization because there are men in it? Get real. Almost every one would have to quit because almost everyone is married... men and woman.
> 
> I also have a walking group and another special interest group that have both men and women. Do I need to quit those too?
> 
> Get real.
> 
> Many spouses have issues with their partner recreating with the opposite sex. Dr. Harley, author of His Needs Her Needs, has helped marriages in situations like hers- and he's got a no opposite-sex policy like many here on TAM. Knowing that most affairs start with opposite-sex friendships, I'm being very realistic. How many friendships have you read about here on TAM that have resulted in EAs or PAs? I asked the question and now you're telling me to Get Real? What, is this oppressed speech day, where we attack posters who ask questions based on a licensed clinical psychologist's recommendation who has helped marriages in similar situations? In no way do I state that women can't associate with men, but becoming recreational companions if your spouse tells you it bothers them? If her husband were posting, telling us that his wife is part of a running group that included men and he asked her to stop and she didn't, wouldn't we be asking questions and giving him advice? And wouldn't many here on TAM be telling him why opposite-sex recreational companions is a slippery slope? Especially if there are issues in the marriage?
> 
> 
> 
> She already gave him a last shot and he did not take it. How many last shots does she need to give him? How many years does she have to live in a situation that is not mentally healthy for her and for her children?
> 
> This is the first time that she has told him he either gets help or she is done. When you're ready to set a firm boundary and separate until your spouse seeks treatment, it can be a huge wake-up call to the spouse to actually get the treatment he needs and be proactive in doing what he needs to do for the sake of his family.


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## Jessica38

EleGirl said:


> Did you notice the forum in which she posted? It's about divorce, not fixing her marriage. so yea, she's made up her mind to leave. She is not looking for input to fix a marriage that she is done with.


I did not see that, I thought she was looking for help in deciding what to do. 

And she did say in a previous post that she goes back and forth.


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## Jessica38

EleGirl said:


> Thanks for clarifying that the assumptions being made by some are way out of line.


Asking questions is now making assumptions? Where were assumptions made?

Many women will finally leave a spouse after years of unhappiness once they have a new point of comparison. In no way did I assume she was spending time with other men as recreational companions. I asked the question because she said her husband had an issue with it. It was a red flag to me so I asked. I make no apologies for that- it was meant to help.

And OP, since you've posted in the divorcing forum, I see that you've likely made up your mind. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wish you and your children the best.


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## summer41

Three years ago i said the same thing but it fell on deaf ears and he didn't change but I was too weak and worried about the kids to follow it through. 

Thank you for your advice 


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## Jessica38

summer41 said:


> Three years ago i said the same thing but it fell on deaf ears and he didn't change but I was too weak and worried about the kids to follow it through.
> 
> Thank you for your advice
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No one could blame you for that. I'm sorry you're going through this, my heart goes out to you and your family. I do think you're right in separating. I see no other choice. I agree with the previous poster who said he might need to enter a treatment center. It's up to you at that point if you'd be willing to reconcile if he can demonstrate that he will continue treatment and become a fit father/husband.


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## EleGirl

Summer, do you ever take your children to the running group on family days?


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> Summer, do you ever take your children to the running group on family days?




I do when I can by this I mean that my 8 year old son if he is asked by me does he want to come to the running day with me ?? If his dad is at home playing on the PS4 then he wants to do that instead. I get no encouragement off H to change his mind. Even though it would be beneficial for him. When he comes he has a good time: my daughter is 12 and is at that age where she used to come but it's not cool. So it's very hit and miss. To counteract this I have tried when the weather allows to get the kids walking with me in the countryside which they enjoy if it isn't too hard. I want my children to grow up in an active healthy lifestyle. It's ok to chill out and have a PJ day but not in and out of everyday. If the weather is nice kids should be outside playing in the fresh air not stuck inside playing video games or on their phones. 


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## EleGirl

Summer, 

Hope you had a better day today. How's it going?


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> Summer,
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you had a better day today. How's it going?




Hi @EleGirl I think I have helped him see he has to tell his parents now, then it becomes real. I have after all the advice and seeing both sides on here decided that I have to start caring for myself and the children. I am beginning to realise that this isn't selfish this is to ensure the kids have a chance of seeing that what we are isn't normal. 

I am going to also to try and help him see he should talk to someone and get himself some help not only for him but so he can be a good strong dad too. I've always said I don't hate him I love him but as a companion a friend rather than a husband. I want to try and support him to become well but detach emotionally. I have no idea if that is doable yet but I can try.

I am sure I will still flip between panic "have I done the right thing" and "yes this is right" but that's only down to me being scared about the kids reaction to the separation. 

I am not out the woods yet, I think he will make it very difficult for me to leave (name off mortgage etc) I live in the U.K. So I may have to start reading up on the law 

Thank you xx


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## EleGirl

Yes you do need to start reading up on your laws. I did some searching on the internet for issues related to divorce in the UK, but the websites I found are not as direct/clear as those in the USA. 

My take is that there is alimony and children support. But it's not clear if it's only for a spouse who gave up working outside the home to be a full time at-home parent, of it it's for any lower-earning spouse.

You would probably benefit from an appointment with a solicitor to get some of your questions answered as well.

It's good that you are encouraging him to build a support system for himself. He's going to need it from the sounds of things. 

I can understand why this would be hard. He's difficult, but he's not horrible. He's not beating you. He's not cheating, etc. When those things are going on, it is much easier to know what you have to do and to justify leaving.

You are right that what you describe of your marriage is not what your children should be learning about marriage and family.


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## EleGirl

By the way, this is tax week in the USA.. our income taxes are due on Monday. I do taxes for a few people. One of my clients has a mess and she dumped it on me. So I've been inundated with trying to clean it up. So I've not been on TAM much again today. I just wanted you to know so that you know that while I'm not here a lot these few days, I am checking in.

You need support and I'll bet that a lot of the TAM regular posters also have their heads buried in their tax prep this week/week-end.


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## manfromlamancha

You say you met when you were 18 but actually got married 9 years later (when you were 27 - so old enough to make that decision) - is that correct ? How was your husband in those early years ? Attractive ? Fit ? Upbeat ?

When you trained as an accountant, did he support you in this or was he negative ?


I live in the UK and I can tell you first hand there is not a real good support system for men - Relate is an absolute joke! The "counsellors" are a bunch of bored housewives and wannabe therapists. To try and get counselling you have to spend serious money. As I said I speak from first hand knowledge. I actually fully understand where your husband is at this stage in his life.

He feels he is a failure but cannot come out with it. Your earning more, running and successfully losing weight and having a set of friends away from the misery of home life makes him jealous. I agree that he should get help but not from Relate!!!!

I have seen near identical situations where I live and we have a local "curry club" that has helped more husbands in this situation than any Relate office could do. He is currently resentful and sees what you say to him as highlighting his failures and as "nagging". If he were in our town we would take him away and gently build him up again so that he could see a light at the end of this tunnel.

You must realise that he already knew you didn't find him attractive some time ago and it is yet another thing he has to cope with. 

As others are saying, you should let him go as much for your sake as for his. He will sink a bit but rise again. 

Or … you can try and empathise and really try and get to the bottom of what he is feeling and going through. I somehow think that you now feel that you can do better than him and have opted to end the marriage and I must say, reading your posts, the justification is all there. So I guess you are justified. But I have also been where he is and once my wife threatened to leave I did manage to find a support network and built myself back up (I was very overweight at one stage complete with the snoring problems etc). I eventually got fitter and became attractive to other women and this is what made my wife sit up and take notice. I also started to earn more money as my friends helped me get back on top of things. My wife had also decided that she could do better at the time and even had a couple of replacements lined up (in her mind). However, she had the sense to finally understand what I was going through and quickly came back.

Our four kids were also influenced by this at the time (they are grown now) and I have three daughters and one son. My son and two of my daughters could see what I was going through much more clearly than their mother at the time and also came to my aid. They stated that they would prefer to stay in the house with me and help me with the mortgage once they started work. My wife at the time was much more concerned with her running club, her gym and her new group of friends (many of whom were divorced or looking to get divorced). 

I really hope this is not the case with you and that you have carefully thought carefully about what he might be going through. As I said a local curry club can be of more help sometimes to a UK male than Relate.


I really hope it all works out for the best for you but I thought that I would just give you another perspective.

And you don't need to answer this on the forum here, but has there been one or two potential replacement mates that have caught your eye since you lost weight etc. If so, then your situation may need another look at. If not, then you need to really understand at what point you lost attraction to your husband. As I asked at the start of this, how was your relationship to start with ? Did it all change once kids arrived ?


----------



## summer41

manfromlamancha said:


> You say you met when you were 18 but actually got married 9 years later (when you were 27 - so old enough to make that decision) - is that correct ? How was your husband in those early years ? Attractive ? Fit ? Upbeat ?
> 
> When you trained as an accountant, did he support you in this or was he negative ?
> 
> 
> I live in the UK and I can tell you first hand there is not a real good support system for men - Relate is an absolute joke! The "counsellors" are a bunch of bored housewives and wannabe therapists. To try and get counselling you have to spend serious money. As I said I speak from first hand knowledge. I actually fully understand where your husband is at this stage in his life.
> 
> He feels he is a failure but cannot come out with it. Your earning more, running and successfully losing weight and having a set of friends away from the misery of home life makes him jealous. I agree that he should get help but not from Relate!!!!
> 
> I have seen near identical situations where I live and we have a local "curry club" that has helped more husbands in this situation than any Relate office could do. He is currently resentful and sees what you say to him as highlighting his failures and as "nagging". If he were in our town we would take him away and gently build him up again so that he could see a light at the end of this tunnel.
> 
> You must realise that he already knew you didn't find him attractive some time ago and it is yet another thing he has to cope with.
> 
> As others are saying, you should let him go as much for your sake as for his. He will sink a bit but rise again.
> 
> Or … you can try and empathise and really try and get to the bottom of what he is feeling and going through. I somehow think that you now feel that you can do better than him and have opted to end the marriage and I must say, reading your posts, the justification is all there. So I guess you are justified. But I have also been where he is and once my wife threatened to leave I did manage to find a support network and built myself back up (I was very overweight at one stage complete with the snoring problems etc). I eventually got fitter and became attractive to other women and this is what made my wife sit up and take notice. I also started to earn more money as my friends helped me get back on top of things. My wife had also decided that she could do better at the time and even had a couple of replacements lined up (in her mind). However, she had the sense to finally understand what I was going through and quickly came back.
> 
> Our four kids were also influenced by this at the time (they are grown now) and I have three daughters and one son. My son and two of my daughters could see what I was going through much more clearly than their mother at the time and also came to my aid. They stated that they would prefer to stay in the house with me and help me with the mortgage once they started work. My wife at the time was much more concerned with her running club, her gym and her new group of friends (many of whom were divorced or looking to get divorced).
> 
> I really hope this is not the case with you and that you have carefully thought carefully about what he might be going through. As I said a local curry club can be of more help sometimes to a UK male than Relate.
> 
> 
> I really hope it all works out for the best for you but I thought that I would just give you another perspective.
> 
> And you don't need to answer this on the forum here, but has there been one or two potential replacement mates that have caught your eye since you lost weight etc. If so, then your situation may need another look at. If not, then you need to really understand at what point you lost attraction to your husband. As I asked at the start of this, how was your relationship to start with ? Did it all change once kids arrived ?




This has really made me think. I've not really thought further back than 6 years when things really deteriorated (me in another bedroom) but when the children where born (daughter 13 next month) he showered her with the love and attention he used to give me, maybe I saw this as his disassociation with me and coupled with my post natal depression thought that he didn't fancy me anymore and then finding porn on the phone and his computer made me feel worthless.

While pregnant he would snore (not as bad) I would go on the broken settee and he wouldn't acknowledge it he wouldn't even say wake me up. Which I didn't want to do as he needs his sleep. I guess he may have been embarrassed? But again that was another hammer on my emotions. Another occasion was when I was about to pop with my second child and my daughter was 3 he went out on a stag do quite far away I pleaded him to not drink so that he could come back if needed he refused left me crying heartbroken heavily pregnant and he never even rang to make sure I was ok. This was all before I found running and I had hardly any friends - he had control. 

Another occasion was I hated the dentist petrified in fact and I was in a lot of pain, cracked tooth and abscess worried I was going to need the tooth out. Went to the emergency dentist who was in the middle of a busy town and it was throwing it down with rain. I couldn't concentrate on driving so asked him to take me - his response as I was crying while he passed me the tom tom for directions was "sorry use this to find your way my friend needs me to help him with his computer!" Left me in pieces.
I wasn't strong enough to say anything back then I wasn't well myself. Now I am and I look back and these (and there are more) issues made me feel small and pathetic and that he never loved me. Now I have put up with it and become stronger and got myself well. I have tried.

I am trying to help him now. I haven't noticed other men to be honest as I am not interested in becoming sad and hurt again 

Your advice made me have another perspective and for that I thank you. I will try and be more supportive of him 


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## arbitrator

*Get both yourself and the kids into immediate therapy! In retrospect, your H actually needs this therapy much worse than you do!

Without doing anything from a tangible perspective to facilitate your marriage, it greatly sounds as if he is giving you no other option other than to divorce!*


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## manfromlamancha

summer41 said:


> This has really made me think. I've not really thought further back than 6 years when things really deteriorated (me in another bedroom) but when the children where born (daughter 13 next month) he showered her with the love and attention he used to give me, maybe I saw this as his disassociation with me and coupled with my post natal depression thought that he didn't fancy me anymore and then finding porn on the phone and his computer made me feel worthless.
> 
> While pregnant he would snore (not as bad) I would go on the broken settee and he wouldn't acknowledge it he wouldn't even say wake me up. Which I didn't want to do as he needs his sleep. I guess he may have been embarrassed? But again that was another hammer on my emotions. Another occasion was when I was about to pop with my second child and my daughter was 3 he went out on a stag do quite far away I pleaded him to not drink so that he could come back if needed he refused left me crying heartbroken heavily pregnant and he never even rang to make sure I was ok. This was all before I found running and I had hardly any friends - he had control.
> 
> Another occasion was I hated the dentist petrified in fact and I was in a lot of pain, cracked tooth and abscess worried I was going to need the tooth out. Went to the emergency dentist who was in the middle of a busy town and it was throwing it down with rain. I couldn't concentrate on driving so asked him to take me - his response as I was crying while he passed me the tom tom for directions was "sorry use this to find your way my friend needs me to help him with his computer!" Left me in pieces.
> I wasn't strong enough to say anything back then I wasn't well myself. Now I am and I look back and these (and there are more) issues made me feel small and pathetic and that he never loved me. Now I have put up with it and become stronger and got myself well. I have tried.
> 
> I am trying to help him now. I haven't noticed other men to be honest as I am not interested in becoming sad and hurt again
> 
> Your advice made me have another perspective and for that I thank you. I will try and be more supportive of him
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



He, like many husbands I have come across, seems to have an unhealthy dose of what might be described as a combination of selfishness, lack of empathy, manners and respect etc. This is not uncommon. He needs education and he needs it fast. And I know I will get slammed for this, but it needs to come from another man - one he either trusts or looks up to. 

His not being supportive during your pregnancy (including having you sleep on an uncomfortable couch, fear of dentists etc) is unforgivable and for that alone I would suggest somebody sort him out. I don't know what part of the UK you live in but I know of a couple in the southeast of England but they are expensive.

What I was trying to establish is what were his good points when he was attractive to you ? That is what he needs to clearly identify and bring back first, and then work on his other negative points.

It may well be that he doesn't fancy you anymore although I seriously doubt it. I think he senses the resentment and this drives him further down the rabbit hole.


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## summer41

EleGirl said:


> By the way, this is tax week in the USA.. our income taxes are due on Monday. I do taxes for a few people. One of my clients has a mess and she dumped it on me. So I've been inundated with trying to clean it up. So I've not been on TAM much again today. I just wanted you to know so that you know that while I'm not here a lot these few days, I am checking in.
> 
> 
> 
> You need support and I'll bet that a lot of the TAM regular posters also have their heads buried in their tax prep this week/week-end.



@EleGirl I have posted in the going through separation and divorce, this weekend is easter in the U.K. And it's been the worst weekend ever for me, can't wait to go back to work; his complete lack of acknowledgement that it's over is making me feel trapped. I can't breathe and in total panic mode. I feel like he has me over a barrel  




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## aine

summer41 said:


> This has really made me think. I've not really thought further back than 6 years when things really deteriorated (me in another bedroom) but when the children where born (daughter 13 next month) he showered her with the love and attention he used to give me, maybe I saw this as his disassociation with me and coupled with my post natal depression thought that he didn't fancy me anymore and then finding porn on the phone and his computer made me feel worthless.
> 
> While pregnant he would snore (not as bad) I would go on the broken settee and he wouldn't acknowledge it he wouldn't even say wake me up. Which I didn't want to do as he needs his sleep. I guess he may have been embarrassed? But again that was another hammer on my emotions. Another occasion was when I was about to pop with my second child and my daughter was 3 he went out on a stag do quite far away I pleaded him to not drink so that he could come back if needed he refused left me crying heartbroken heavily pregnant and he never even rang to make sure I was ok. This was all before I found running and I had hardly any friends - he had control.
> 
> Another occasion was I hated the dentist petrified in fact and I was in a lot of pain, cracked tooth and abscess worried I was going to need the tooth out. Went to the emergency dentist who was in the middle of a busy town and it was throwing it down with rain. I couldn't concentrate on driving so asked him to take me - his response as I was crying while he passed me the tom tom for directions was "sorry use this to find your way my friend needs me to help him with his computer!" Left me in pieces.
> I wasn't strong enough to say anything back then I wasn't well myself. Now I am and I look back and these (and there are more) issues made me feel small and pathetic and that he never loved me. Now I have put up with it and become stronger and got myself well. I have tried.
> 
> I am trying to help him now. I haven't noticed other men to be honest as I am not interested in becoming sad and hurt again
> 
> Your advice made me have another perspective and for that I thank you. I will try and be more supportive of him
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It is sad that he treated you like this, he sounds like a bit of a bully or ingrate. There are many men who are thoughtless (usually unintentionally) but it chips away at the love their wives have for them. Their wives tell them over and over but they do not hear. Alas, a time often comes to pay the piper, and in your case the feelings have gone, he is just a 'friend' someone whom you care for but who will soon only be part of your past. 
I get morose when I think of stuff my H did to me, things said, (a woman really never forgets though she may choose to forgive) they tend to erode the love.


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## summer41

aine said:


> It is sad that he treated you like this, he sounds like a bit of a bully or ingrate. There are many men who are thoughtless (usually unintentionally) but it chips away at the love their wives have for them. Their wives tell them over and over but they do not hear. Alas, a time often comes to pay the piper, and in your case the feelings have gone, he is just a 'friend' someone whom you care for but who will soon only be part of your past.
> 
> I get morose when I think of stuff my H did to me, things said, (a woman really never forgets though she may choose to forgive) they tend to erode the love.




I am worried that I will start to resent him: I just want him to find someone who can make him happy. I can't anymore I am totally worn out. We don't forget it's like some of the things said and done happened yesterday. 


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## MattMatt

summer41 said:


> I am worried that I will start to resent him: I just want him to find someone who can make him happy. I can't anymore I am totally worn out. We don't forget it's like some of the things said and done happened yesterday.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Only he can make himself happy.


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