# Newbie. How do you know if it's worth saving?



## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

First time post and newcomer and could really use some support. Been married for 17 years (plus lived together for 4 yrs) and have 2 boys. I have a great job and am relatively successful and make a good living (always been the breadwinner). I'm only saying that bc I think it's important to know that I'm not financially dependent although I am tied to our debts/mortgage. I am the primary caregiver of our house...meaning I cook, clean, grocery shop, organize playdates, check homework, discipline, book vacations and basically juggle it mostly myself. Husband is a good father in that he spends a lot of time with the kids (playing). I really feel like I have 3 kids but I want a partner, not 3 kids. It's the old routine of good cop bad cop and guess who's the bad cop? Don't get me wrong. I'm not a nagging mom (i have an ultra-fussy mom so try not to do that) but we have a few regular rules of pick up after yourself (no clothes or dirty dishes left laying around) and respond when spoken to (listen). Not asking too much. And our house is far from spotless but it is clean and lived-in(inside). Husband does lawn and garbage but that is about it though he helps load dinner dishes in dishwasher and his OWN laundry. But this isn't really about division of labor. I'm trying to give a sense of the dynamic here. I have less time to spend with kids playing bc of all I do but I do play games with them and bedtime is my snuggle time (they're 9 and 8) and talk time with them. My kids know I love them and are very secure with that. My marriage on the other hand, is another story. I don't think my husband loves me any more and I don't know if I love him either. And I know it's possible to fall in/out love in a marriage but I don't know if I can do it alone anymore. The reason I want to try is for my kids. I don't believe in divorce and am a Christian. I believe my kids would thrive more in that traditional family. We don't know many families that are divorced (less than 5 or 6) and ironically, the ones who are that have kids, have gotten into some trouble. Plus all but 1 of our kids' friends have traditional families. We separated for 6 months about 11 years ago and my parents, ESP my Mom, we're in denial. My mother didn't even tell family members. Anyway, I guess to sum it up...I have a loveless marriage with no affection from my spouse and a spouse who is perpetually detached, cold and unavailable to me. He shuts down with me and can't talk. He is a barrel of laughs and über-entertaining when his family is around but certainly not with me. My self-esteem is at an all time low. But I can fake it good. Only a small handful of friends know better. I am relatively attractive and appear to have it together and I know I'm strong and independent and not needy but I am buckling under the strain and i am lonely. Thank you for reading this far.
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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Welcome and I hope you find some help here.Seems to me like with everything you do in your work/home life that you may have unknowingly disengaged from your H or at least given him that impression.So maybe now he's disengaging.I think most couples in a good,viable marriage try to spend 10 hours or more of quality time together a week in order to have a solid connection.You need to sit down and really have a good open and honest talk about this and if you need some help facilitating it,then maybe someone in your Christian community like your pastor can help.How did you go about resolving the issues in your previous separation?


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## His_Pixie (Jan 29, 2012)

Goodness, in many ways you described my marriage of 21+ years (married 21, together 25). It took me years to get out. I would always say "I'm just looking for that blinking neon sign telling me what to do!" He was/is a good man, good father, good provider, family man. But critical and grumpy, except to the outside world where he was (and is!) Mr. Charming, Mr. Wonderful. 

I was/am also able to support myself financially. We had triplet daughters and although their last year of high school was incredibly rocky, we made it through until their first semester of college. 

He "loved" me but wasn't "in love" with me, you know? He loved having someone in that "wife" role, that's more how I see it. He wasn't affectionate, we didn't "talk," we weren't best friends....and he wasn't all that attracted to me sexually -- I'm slim and well built but he actually preferred "more meat" to be on my bones. 

He wanted a WIFE/MOTHER/HOUSEKEEPER, but not a "soulmate." Sigh. I read the book "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." It did help clarify things for me.

I also made a list of what I really wanted in life, in categories: relationship, family, financially, career, spiritually, and friends. I looked at where I was and where I wanted to be. It was not easy and took me awhile. But finally, I left. Four year later, I'm married to my best friend. Who DOES find my slim form desirable


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

TBT said:


> Welcome and I hope you find some help here.Seems to me like with everything you do in your work/home life that you may have unknowingly disengaged from your H or at least given him that impression.So maybe now he's disengaging.I think most couples in a good,viable marriage try to spend 10 hours or more of quality time together a week in order to have a solid connection.You need to sit down and really have a good open and honest talk about this and if you need some help facilitating it,then maybe someone in your Christian community like your pastor can help.How did you go about resolving the issues in your previous separation?


Thank you so very much for taking the time to reply. I admit i know I am disengaged. My H has also been disengaged for years. In hindsight, when I disengaged, it slid downhill fast. I just got tired and resentful of doing it all without any appreciation. 10 hours of quality time together a week??? My God, we don't spend 10 minutes quality time together a day! It is little wonder we are at this point. We "resolved" issues in our previous separation by going to counseling. But my H just said all the right things in sessions. It was very phony but i didnt realize it till well afterwards because othing changed He doesn't talk to me like that and if he did, we wouldn't be in trouble. As for my priest, that is a good possibility but I can tell you we aren't churchgoers, despite being Christian. I am seriously considering re-connecting there as I do know the priest and he knows my parents. Thanks once again for your perspective.
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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

His_Pixie said:


> Goodness, in many ways you described my marriage of 21+ years (married 21, together 25). It took me years to get out. I would always say "I'm just looking for that blinking neon sign telling me what to do!" He was/is a good man, good father, good provider, family man. But critical and grumpy, except to the outside world where he was (and is!) Mr. Charming, Mr. Wonderful.
> 
> I was/am also able to support myself financially. We had triplet daughters and although their last year of high school was incredibly rocky, we made it through until their first semester of college.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. I am very grateful to know I am not alone. The fact that my H is a good person and good father is what makes it so hard, though I can't say good provider. His job situation is fine now but it has taken all 17 years of marriage to get here. He has had 6 jobs in 9 years and a couple times he has just quit "because he couldn't take it" and didn't have a job to go to, despite having a family to provide for. Yes, I'm resentful about that stress being on me. How have your daughters been? How do you think they changed because of it? Every single thing you have written, I can relate to 100%. I think I am going to make a list like you did but it may be very painful because I will see exactly what I am missing. It hurts already. I am sincerely happy that you did find your best friend. I can not go there in my head. I am imagining a future alone and fortunately I enjoy my own company so I'm thankful for that too. I will also get the book you suggested. I can not thank you enough. I wish I had a friend who has been there like you. I guess I will find out again who my real friends are, won't I? Be well.
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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

TrueNorth said:


> Thank you so very much for taking the time to reply. I admit i know I am disengaged. My H has also been disengaged for years. In hindsight, when I disengaged, it slid downhill fast. I just got tired and resentful of doing it all without any appreciation. 10 hours of quality time together a week??? My God, we don't spend 10 minutes quality time together a day! It is little wonder we are at this point. We "resolved" issues in our previous separation by going to counseling. But my H just said all the right things in sessions. It was very phony but i didnt realize it till well afterwards because othing changed He doesn't talk to me like that and if he did, we wouldn't be in trouble. As for my priest, that is a good possibility but I can tell you we aren't churchgoers, despite being Christian. I am seriously considering re-connecting there as I do know the priest and he knows my parents. Thanks once again for your perspective.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


IF you are serious about repairing your marriage, this is one of the first steps that need to be corrected!! Make the time. Then communicate.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

TrueNorth said:


> Only a small handful of friends know better. I am relatively attractive and appear to have it together and I know I'm strong and independent and not needy but I am buckling under the strain and i am lonely. Thank you for reading this far.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a warning sign. You are not supposed to feel lonely in a relationship - this is often the birth of infidelity.

Does your husband know about your misery? You need to tell him in a way that can't be neglected or misunderstood. Maybe he doesn't feel loved either?

Like other posters advice; take the time and learn how to make each other feel loved before it's too late. Love is a choice and not something you make an inventory check on and then go buy some in a store (= another relationship).


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

This may help you as well:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ou-but-im-not-love-you-anymore-explained.html

Marriage is something that you have to work at.


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

cpacan said:


> This is a warning sign. You are not supposed to feel lonely in a relationship - this is often the birth of infidelity.
> 
> Does your husband know about your misery? You need to tell him in a way that can't be neglected or misunderstood. Maybe he doesn't feel loved either?
> 
> Like other posters advice; take the time and learn how to make each other feel loved before it's too late. Love is a choice and not something you make an inventory check on and then go buy some in a store (= another relationship).


Thank you for your reply. Yes my H knows I feel this way. He is very apathetic about it and really behaves like he doesn't care. Don't get me wrong, I am far from a drama queen or needy and when I have said specifically what I need/want, he does not respond so I am left to think he doesn't care. I know loneliness is the birth of infidelity but I grew up with a cheating parent and it is some of my saddest memories. I would never ever repeat that with my kids. Luckily I enjoy my own company. I am in IC but H has no interest though he will ask me how my session went. He is very detached and cold and is unavailable, unwilling and incapable of talking about it (his father and siblings are just like this). He comes from a "close" family but no one ever talks about issues, concerns or anything serious. If there is disagreement, it is ignored until it is forgotten. Literally swept under the carpet. They just party together and that's their closeness. Me? Not so much. I just don't know if I can do it alone and I hate to think what the kids are learning from this. That said, I am not a believer of divorce either and in fact, we know very few people who are. And a divorce will change my kids and that breaks my heart. Thanks again for your insight.
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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

hldnhope said:


> IF you are serious about repairing your marriage, this is one of the first steps that need to be corrected!! Make the time. Then communicate.


Yes but can a marriage be repaired with only 1 person working on it? I have been doing it for 21 years and when I stopped, this is where we are. I don't believe H loves me.
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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

A marriage cannot be repaired with just one person "working" on it. After all, it takes two to make a marriage and just one to destroy it. However, if you change what you do, your relationship will change. 

Instead of taking on so many duties, let some of them slide, delegate the ones you can, or purchase help - quick meals, a weekly housekeeper, etc. Use the extra time to play a bit yourself. Fun is an important glue for good relationships, so go have some. You'll feel better about yourself, your life, and the people around you, and when you're feeling good, it makes others want to be around you more, too.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

TrueNorth said:


> Thank you for your reply. Yes my H knows I feel this way. He is very apathetic about it and really behaves like he doesn't care. Don't get me wrong, I am far from a drama queen or needy and when I have said specifically what I need/want, he does not respond so I am left to think he doesn't care. I know loneliness is the birth of infidelity but I grew up with a cheating parent and it is some of my saddest memories. I would never ever repeat that with my kids. Luckily I enjoy my own company. I am in IC but H has no interest though he will ask me how my session went. He is very detached and cold and is unavailable, unwilling and incapable of talking about it (his father and siblings are just like this). He comes from a "close" family but no one ever talks about issues, concerns or anything serious. If there is disagreement, it is ignored until it is forgotten. Literally swept under the carpet. They just party together and that's their closeness. Me? Not so much. I just don't know if I can do it alone and I hate to think what the kids are learning from this. That said, I am not a believer of divorce either and in fact, we know very few people who are. And a divorce will change my kids and that breaks my heart. Thanks again for your insight.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually; your husband sounds just like my wife with regards to problem solving technique and background. I know it's touch to handle.

Have you ever read the 5 love languages? It might give you some hints and a place to start from. It also adresses your "only one person working on it" issue.


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

cpacan said:


> Actually; your husband sounds just like my wife with regards to problem solving technique and background. I know it's touch to handle.
> 
> Have you ever read the 5 love languages? It might give you some hints and a place to start from. It also adresses your "only one person working on it" issue.


Ooh that's a new title. Thank you! I'm going on Amazon right now. I appreciate your suggestion.
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## ItMatters (Jun 6, 2012)

I will post more later- but you are NOT alone- my marriage is very similar. It's tough when married to a 'nice' guy because when things are bad...they are still nice.
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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

ItMatters said:


> I will post more later- but you are NOT alone- my marriage is very similar. It's tough when married to a 'nice' guy because when things are bad...they are still nice.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You hit the nail on the head! Thank you for saying that and I will look for your post later. I'm actually going to unsubscribe from here bc of some posters (judgemental, insensitive and hurtful) but I will come back to check this thread. Please do post when you have time and most especially thanks for letting me know I'm not alone.
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## ItMatters (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience- I've found TAM to be a great resource. Although there are people on here who have been so hurt by their spouses that they can be very angry at people who are contemplating separation- I find that there are also people who want to be very helpful.

Just saying TALK or SPEND TIME with your spouse isn't really helpful though- if you no longer know HOW to have a conversation with them or no longer WANT to spend much time with them due to their attitude or lack of interest.

You also might want to look into the book 'Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay'- it's pointed me to leaving although I'm still going to make some last efforts.

Do you think a separation might make him realize the seriousness of the situation and get him to either step up or allow you to realize that he really doesn't care anymore? My spouse is going after what I term the 'low hanging fruit' so I can't say he isn't doing ANYTHING to help the situation- but he certainly isn't going after the things that make me believe that he is really committed to working throught the tough issues.

You can search for my other threads that I have started (not that many) and get more backstory on me.

Keep posting- I'll be back. ;-)


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## TrueNorth (Jul 9, 2012)

ItMatters said:


> I'm sorry you haven't had a good experience- I've found TAM to be a great resource. Although there are people on here who have been so hurt by their spouses that they can be very angry at people who are contemplating separation- I find that there are also people who want to be very helpful.
> 
> Just saying TALK or SPEND TIME with your spouse isn't really helpful though- if you no longer know HOW to have a conversation with them or no longer WANT to spend much time with them due to their attitude or lack of interest.
> 
> ...


Hi. Thanks for your reply. I did get the book you recommended so I hope that will sort out my thoughts. You also hit the nail on the head when you said I no longer know HOW to have a conversation with him and sometimes, I don't WANT to have one with him because of his mood. Hard to compete with the tv or computer and I always feel like I'm interrupting him (which I am) so i quit trying to tear him away from it. I find we talk mostly about logistics and sometimes our best conversations are on our cells when we are driving (not together). Sad but true. I will search some of your threads to catch your back story. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

The answers to your question, "is it worth saving" are inside of you. No one can tell you. Leaving only makes things more difficult. If you are in danger, that is something different. If you want a Christian answer, Ephesians 5: 22-33 seems appropriate. See your pastor or counselor. It is too complicated when you are right on top of the situation. Good Luck!


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

> Yes but can a marriage be repaired with only 1 person working on it? I have been doing it for 21 years and when I stopped, this is where we are. I don't believe H loves me.


No a marriage can't be saved with one person working on it. And as long as your relationship hasn't gotten so bad (ie to the point of no return), it can be incredibly difficult to recover even if you are both working hard at repairing & renewing your marraige.

Keep working on yourself at this point in time (almost like a 180) and he just maybe will start to improve as a reflection/reaction of your own work. I guess my point is here, is continue working on yourself and one day you will KNOW whether it is over or not.

Mine moment came only a couple of weeks ago. One more fight, and I just knew (took me a few days to realise) that as Rhett Butler said, "I don't give a damn" anymore. I knew....it wasn't an epiphany or a light bulb moment (although it can happen like that apparently). For me it was a quiet still sadness. You will know if it ever happens to you. All the best


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