# confession



## As'laDain

i was thinking about something... i don't go to a regular church. my church lately is my friends, family, and coworkers. 

i tell them of my struggles, my transgressions, and my joys. right now i am at a point in my life where i really cant enjoy close friendships through a local church. i move too much. ill have just enough time to get to know them, and then i will move to another part of the country. so, i don't go to church, but i still find that i need to tell people when i mess up from time to time. 

im in the army, and lately, that has been my platoon sergeant and other senior NCOs. when i feel like i mess up, i tell them. they hold me accountable, and i move past it with their guidance. i find this form of confession far more useful and productive than just telling a man of faith my sins. this way, i am held accountable, and i actually grow. im forced to face it. 

its scary as hell. 


anyway, i was thinking, and i want to introduce this idea to others. so, this is my first attempt in that. 

got something on your mind? did something you're ashamed of? post it here and follow advice of the TAM community. generally speaking, i find TAM to be pretty spot on when it comes to what needs to be done.


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## jld

I can't believe I am posting this, but here goes, something I am really embarrassed by: I need to lose 10 lbs.

Now, it really is 10 lbs. Not 100, or 50, or 25. It really is 10. 

I have been hitting the treats hard the last 6 weeks or so, and I really need to substitute a non-eating activity for them. I think every time I feel like pulling out the vegan chocolate chips or rice cakes with almond butter, I need to grab a cup of tea, or read something interesting, or just find some kind of substitute activity.

I am really at the top of the acceptable weight range for my height (I am 5'4" and weight 140 right now), and need to get back to 130 or so. I can't realistically maintain anything lower than 130. Or am just not willing to.

As'laDain, if you were not such a good friend, I don't think I would have dared post this. But I wanted to support your thread, you know!


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## As'laDain

jld, thank you for your support! i know how scary it is to tell people that your not perfect... and show how that is true!
do you have a plan for losing weight?

i have to admit, i dont really have a plan for making sure that i dont drink too much. i dont even feel like an alcoholic, but i barely have anything in place to make sure that i am consuming responsibly, even though i usually just have a few shots. i think tommorow ill try laying out a certain amount of vodka and stick with that... basically pour out my shots into one glass and make that the limit for me. that way, i still get to drink with my wife when she wants to and i dont get drunk. in order for that to work though, ill have to make sure that i cant just pour more from the bottle later on...


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## jld

That is an admirable goal, As'laDain, cutting back on alcohol. I used to like sharing a bottle of wine with dh, but I have problems with my bladder, and I don't want to irritate it.

I hear you on a plan . . . or the lack of it. 

I think trying to substitute non-food activities will help me, but I really think it is just keeping my goal in my mind. And being honest with myself about what I am eating.

Tomorrow I am making pasta salad for the boys, but I don't think I will eat it, because if I do, I will put Woodstock and Goddess dressing on, and they are loaded with fat! That is really how I put the 10 lbs on -- too much fat! And it was delicious! 

I can't really count on dh for help, because he really doesn't care what I weigh, or not at 140. And to him it is only a health concern, not anything else. I think I would have to get to 160 before he would start mentioning health to me. And I don't plan to let it get that high!

He was surprised when I brought my weight up yesterday; he hadn't noticed. I think it is incredibly obvious.

You know, people don't think of food as an addiction, but treats are, I think. The things that put weight on me, like tahini dressing, or chocolate chips, or almond butter, or avocado, are not essential. I could avoid them. They just make food more fun. And I need to try to lessen my tendency to see food as fun.

Mostly I need something more interesting in my life than fun food. 

Thank you for asking that question, and starting this thread. I was not really sure I wanted accountability, but this might be good.


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## As'laDain

jld, is it possible for you to lose it through exercise? personally, i think exercise is the best way to lose weight. 

or maybe i just really love exercise...


anyway, today i am going to forgo the vodka. im going to focus on spending some enjoyable time with my wife and daughter tonight. its what i normally do anyway, but i normally have a few shots of vodka. 

im sure my liver will appreciate the break!


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## lifeistooshort

Hey jld, I think you and I have the same build! I'm 5'4 and about 130; 140 gets heavy for me as well and I can get into the 120's but it's very tough. I am of the mindset that if you have to kill yourself it's not meant to be.

For me a few extra miles and cleaning out some refined starch usually does it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

As'laDain said:


> jld, is it possible for you to lose it through exercise? personally, i think exercise is the best way to lose weight.
> 
> or maybe i just really love exercise...
> 
> 
> anyway, today i am going to forgo the vodka. im going to focus on spending some enjoyable time with my wife and daughter tonight. its what i normally do anyway, but i normally have a few shots of vodka.
> 
> im sure my liver will appreciate the break!


For men, exercise really makes a difference. For women, diet is usually key. 

I do exercise on the crosstrainer, though, every other day. I used to do it every day, but then I read you should only do it every other. Not sure if that is right or not . . .

Good job on the vodka. And I think I hear your liver thanking you. 

Well, I ate the pasta salad today. And a chocolate chip cookie the boys made. 

But I can still button my jeans, so it's okay.


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## jld

lifeistooshort said:


> Hey jld, I think you and I have the same build! I'm 5'4 and about 130; 140 gets heavy for me as well and I can get into the 120's but it's very tough. I am of the mindset that if you have to kill yourself it's not meant to be.
> 
> For me a few extra miles and cleaning out some refined starch usually does it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi, life! Yeah, I hear you on the refined starch. The flour products don't help me, that's for sure. But where I really notice the difference is the amount of fat I eat.

I did have some Woodstock on my pasta salad, but only one bowl. But there were plenty of chocolate chips in my cookie.

I think it just has to be important enough to me to cut back, or cut it out when I can. If it is not important enough, I will just eat what I want.

You are a runner, right? I bet you have no trouble staying at 130. 

I can't run. My organs are at risk of prolapse. I could do more exercisewise, though, if I wanted to. Lazy here. 

And congratulations on the pay increase! :smthumbup:


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## movealong

Patience. It is one of my main character flaws. I am turning it over to my higher power and actively seeking to work on it. Everyone wants what they want when they want it, but it becomes a problem, and sometimes an obsession, for me when it concerns my physical, mental or emotional needs.

Being impatient has cost me heartache, headache, and some self-flagellation. I am working on it.


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## jld

I think patience is an issue for most of us, movealong. Welcome to the thread.


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## Mr Blunt

I am too patient; too patient in my plan to loose weight.
I have the same problem as jld but I have a LOT more weight to lose than 10 pounds!!

have no excuse it is just that i do not have the motivation and discipline right now. If I ever get off my BUNS then I will share with you all


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## jld

Lol, Mr. Blunt. I am not doing anything about it, either. I am not motivated enough, either!


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## Mr Blunt

My situation is a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that my life is so good and I am so contented right now. the curse is that I am too satisfied to do anything about my weight.

Oh well I am sure some crises will come along and then I will get off my buns


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## As'laDain

my vices:

i drink, i curse, i smoke. well, the smoking not so much, i quit recently, but its too recent for me to really feel like i quit yet. 

oh, and sometimes i use porn. but, i cant remember the last time i used porn without my wife... so i guess that ones not too bad


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## As'laDain

Mr Blunt said:


> My situation is a blessing and a curse. The blessing is that my life is so good and I am so contented right now. the curse is that I am too satisfied to do anything about my weight.
> 
> Oh well I am sure some crises will come along and then I will get off my buns


if you can find a way to make it fun, you wont need a crisis. 

personally, i like to dance. like an idiot. on sundays. 
with my four year old daughter. 



oh, and i slay monsters and dragons with swords made of pencils and rolled up pieces of paper.


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## lifeistooshort

jld said:


> Hi, life! Yeah, I hear you on the refined starch. The flour products don't help me, that's for sure. But where I really notice the difference is the amount of fat I eat.
> 
> I did have some Woodstock on my pasta salad, but only one bowl. But there were plenty of chocolate chips in my cookie.
> 
> I think it just has to be important enough to me to cut back, or cut it out when I can. If it is not important enough, I will just eat what I want.
> 
> You are a runner, right? I bet you have no trouble staying at 130.
> 
> I can't run. My organs are at risk of prolapse. I could do more exercisewise, though, if I wanted to. Lazy here.
> 
> And congratulations on the pay increase! :smthumbup:



Thanks! 130 isn't too hard for me to maintain as long as I keep running and I pay attention to my hunger signals. I'm not much of a soda drinker and don't care for beer, so I drink a lot of water. I like vodka and rum but don't drink much.

I just turned 40 so I'm waiting to see if I have that metabolism drop, though I'd tell you that my metabolism has never been that great so I've always had to make good choices. I'd also tell you that because of my thick muscles I probably don't look 130. 

My biggest problem is dessert; I love chocolate, cake, ice cream and donuts. The only saving grace there is that I can eat small amounts and be happy. I have a taste for dark, bitter chocolate and I don't buy reduced fat anything. In order to reduce fat generally a lot of chemicals have to be introduced, and in my view it's peoples attempt to eat too damn much. Eat real food and don't eat so damn much; that's my motto.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld

lifeistooshort said:


> Thanks! 130 isn't too hard for me to maintain as long as I keep running and I pay attention to my hunger signals. I'm not much of a soda drinker and don't care for beer, so I drink a lot of water. I like vodka and rum but don't drink much.
> 
> I am so impressed you are a runner! I bet you stay slim easily!
> 
> I am a water drinker, too. Sometimes I have herb tea, but that is about it. I have a lot of bladder problems, and anything besides water can be a trigger.
> 
> I just turned 40 so I'm waiting to see if I have that metabolism drop, though I'd tell you that my metabolism has never been that great so I've always had to make good choices. I'd also tell you that because of my thick muscles I probably don't look 130.
> 
> Young one! I am turning 44 this week!
> 
> And I am sure you look great.
> 
> My biggest problem is dessert; I love chocolate, cake, ice cream and donuts. The only saving grace there is that I can eat small amounts and be happy. I have a taste for dark, bitter chocolate and I don't buy reduced fat anything. In order to reduce fat generally a lot of chemicals have to be introduced, and in my view it's peoples attempt to eat too damn much. Eat real food and don't eat so damn much; that's my motto.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Yeah, I love sweets, too. I don't buy reduced fat ****, either
> 
> I can't eat dairy. My body won't accept it. With dairy, I would be 20 lbs. heavier, I swear.


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## Adeline

can I join in the confession even if it isn't a weight one? pretty please? 

My confession/secret/weakness (not sure what to call it) is that I always go back and forth about whether or not I should push myself socially or if I should just stick with what I am happy with. I enjoy friendship very much, but don't feel a need to constantly meet new people or forge new friendships. I err more on the "sociable hermit" side I suppose you could call it haha.

I have a handful of AMAZING long time friends that I have known for 10 plus years that live all over the country now. Our friendships now consist mostly of phone conversations and photo sharing on facebook, and the occasional visit. When I talk to any of these girls on the phone, it's always a LONG conversation that leaves me feeling refreshed. I try to go visit them and they sometimes visit me (it would require flying either way) and that equals out to seeing them once every 1-3 years depending on the person. I cherish them very much.

Then where I've been living currently for a few years, I made a few friends as well in a group of girls. The girl I was closest too actually ended up moving away  (go figure, right?) and then the other girls ended up having kids and we saw each other less and less, but we still try to get together I'd say every couple of months. Mostly to grab coffee or dinner. I wouldn't consider them close friends, but simply "friends." Not sure how to explain it  

Anyways, for the most part I am happy with this. I feel I have a little of the best of both worlds... close friends for life that I can talk to often and "get me" and I try to fly and visit, and local friends that I can get together with once in a blue moon just to casually chat. Other times I wonder if I am too much of a hermit... I feel like I should be throwing dinner parties and get togethers left and right (isn't that what most adults do??) but honestly those types of things I'd rather do with my best friends, who live far away. It's not really my "thing" to host parties with people I don't know well. I spend a lot of time alone outside of work. But I kind of don't mind. What is the "right" amount of friends, or rather the "right" amount of socializing? Am I severely lacking? A hermit? Or as long as I am happy with it, I shouldn't force myself? I always go back and forth.

That's my confession


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## As'laDain

Adeline said:


> can I join in the confession even if it isn't a weight one? pretty please?
> 
> My confession/secret/weakness (not sure what to call it) is that I always go back and forth about whether or not I should push myself socially or if I should just stick with what I am happy with. I enjoy friendship very much, but don't feel a need to constantly meet new people or forge new friendships. I err more on the "sociable hermit" side I suppose you could call it haha.
> 
> I have a handful of AMAZING long time friends that I have known for 10 plus years that live all over the country now. Our friendships now consist mostly of phone conversations and photo sharing on facebook, and the occasional visit. When I talk to any of these girls on the phone, it's always a LONG conversation that leaves me feeling refreshed. I try to go visit them and they sometimes visit me (it would require flying either way) and that equals out to seeing them once every 1-3 years depending on the person. I cherish them very much.
> 
> Then where I've been living currently for a few years, I made a few friends as well in a group of girls. The girl I was closest too actually ended up moving away  (go figure, right?) and then the other girls ended up having kids and we saw each other less and less, but we still try to get together I'd say every couple of months. Mostly to grab coffee or dinner. I wouldn't consider them close friends, but simply "friends." Not sure how to explain it
> 
> Anyways, for the most part I am happy with this. I feel I have a little of the best of both worlds... close friends for life that I can talk to often and "get me" and I try to fly and visit, and local friends that I can get together with once in a blue moon just to casually chat. Other times I wonder if I am too much of a hermit... I feel like I should be throwing dinner parties and get togethers left and right (isn't that what most adults do??) but honestly those types of things I'd rather do with my best friends, who live far away. It's not really my "thing" to host parties with people I don't know well. I spend a lot of time alone outside of work. But I kind of don't mind. What is the "right" amount of friends, or rather the "right" amount of socializing? Am I severely lacking? A hermit? Or as long as I am happy with it, I shouldn't force myself? I always go back and forth.
> 
> That's my confession


do you feel that you need more social interaction? 

if its right for you, your fine. if you find yourself wishing you had friends to go out with on saturday nights, you may need more friends. if its the latter, i would suggest hobby groups. nothing like sharing an interest with a group of people.


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## Adeline

As'laDain said:


> do you feel that you need more social interaction?
> 
> if its right for you, your fine. if you find yourself wishing you had friends to go out with on saturday nights, you may need more friends. if its the latter, i would suggest hobby groups. nothing like sharing an interest with a group of people.


I feel like I probably should branch out more, but I am somewhat shy and with my marriage problems it has made me more of a homebody. I used to be able to throw school in there as a 3rd excuse, but not anymore. I think if I didn't have my great friends back home to talk to on the phone, and the occasional get together with some local people, that I'd probably feel more lonely. I don't know! Sometimes I feel like a bit of a "loser" sitting home alone all the time. It makes me miss my close friends more than it makes me want to make new local friends... it may be a hindrance having long distance friends! ha. But I guess my confession could be summed up in one word; shy. That's probably more of my problem.


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## jld

Adeline said:


> I feel like I probably should branch out more, but I am somewhat shy and with my marriage problems it has made me more of a homebody. I used to be able to throw school in there as a 3rd excuse, but not anymore. I think if I didn't have my great friends back home to talk to on the phone, and the occasional get together with some local people, that I'd probably feel more lonely. I don't know! Sometimes I feel like a bit of a "loser" sitting home alone all the time. It makes me miss my close friends more than it makes me want to make new local friends... it may be a hindrance having long distance friends! ha. But I guess my confession could be summed up in one word; shy. That's probably more of my problem.


Oh, you sound sweet, Adeline. 

I am mostly home, too. Just easier that way with all my kids.

What are your hobbies?


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## As'laDain

i would say this is my daily confession, but lets not fool ourselves... i lack the discipline to post up everything i do wrong every day. 


anyway, i get emotional when my wife and i argue. i know its not great. i know i could diffuse the situation much faster if i would just LISTEN to her and reflect her feelings back to her to let her know that she is being heard. instead, i get upset, perceive where i am being attacked, and i either attack her or clam up and tell her that i am not talking about it anymore. 

i know its not all my fault... my wife has done things that make it hard for me. but, i want to be strong. i want to be able to rest in the knowledge that i can be an unshakable rock. 

i guess i struggle with the line between believing that my own emotions are my own issue and considering my wifes willingness to work with me. the irritating part is that i KNOW she is willing to work with me. she has shown me that over and over again. and yet, i still trigger. she has made changes in her behaviour that absolutely blow my mind, but i still trigger from the past...


my confession is that i am not as strong as i want to be. im not as strong as i like to think. 


despite that, i gotta say... i could not be more proud of my wife. she has come so far from when i first met her. the difference is more than i can describe. she is amazing now. 

i love her and i want to be a stronger man. and i dont think lightly of myself... still not enough.


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## jld

That is a beautiful post, As'laDain.

As'laDain, you have many wonderful qualities. The fact that you are emotional also means that you are a good communicator, and are affectionate and attentive. I know your wife loves that, and really needs it, As'laDain. Thank you for giving that to her as much as you can. 

There is no shame in saying, This is where I am. I don't want to stay here. But it is where I am right now.

Dh told me that when he starts to feel angry with me, he really makes an effort to calm himself. He knows that his words hurt more than mine, because of how much I look up to him and rely on him. He is careful of what he says, because he knows his words could crush me, and he does not want to do that. 

Women like your wife and me really lean on our men. Not every woman seems to need that, but I do, and I suspect your wife does, too. 

I am indeed married to a rock. But you know what? He doesn't communicate like I would like. He is not affectionate or attentive like I would like. He could be a lot stricter with me, and I think I would get more done. He definitely errs on the side of loving kindness and compassionate forgiveness. 

And while I love that, and truly bask in it, I know it would not hurt for me to get a little more _guidance_ from him.


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## jld

Well, I am 135 now. Not quite sure how. Maybe a little busier.

I really do think the best way to lose weight is to get interested in life. Takes the mind off snacking.


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## Adeline

jld said:


> Oh, you sound sweet, Adeline.
> 
> I am mostly home, too. Just easier that way with all my kids.
> 
> What are your hobbies?


the cliché stuff, like movies and reading. I also like travelling. I love my dogs and do a few activities with them. School was my hobby for so long. I feel so lost without it I am seriously considering going back to tack on a certificate or something to my bachelor's. I must be crazy! It will keep me busy, but won't really give me much social fulfillment. Most students are younger than me, I enjoy class discussion with them, but not really hanging out outside of class.


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## jld

I hear you. I don't really have any hobbies, either. 

I am thinking about hanging out at the kids' ballet school more. Usually I just drop them off and do errands, or go home. But the moms are pretty nice, and I could stand to make some more friends.

It is an effort, isn't it, trying to make friends. And takes patience. And some luck.


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## As'laDain

Adeline said:


> the cliché stuff, like movies and reading. I also like travelling. I love my dogs and do a few activities with them. School was my hobby for so long. I feel so lost without it I am seriously considering going back to tack on a certificate or something to my bachelor's. I must be crazy! It will keep me busy, but won't really give me much social fulfillment. Most students are younger than me, I enjoy class discussion with them, but not really hanging out outside of class.


for hobbies, i find that if i dont have something to contribute to the hobby, i wont feel much fulfillment from it. 

for instance, i like to keep fish. aquariums and everything that goes on in them interest me. 
now, i could just keep fish and be happy that i have pretty fish tanks. but... thats not really enough for me. so, i experiment and i post up the results of my experiments online on aquarium websites. i have forged some close friendships from this. 

for instance, i know that i can collect live food for fish from water treatment plants. i know that i can go to a water treatment plant and collect several pounds of live food for fish in just a few minutes, for free. that means that i really dont have to pay for fish food if i dont want to, and its the best food you can get for ornamental fish. 
some of the people in the hobby really appreciate that information. so, my attributions mean something.

so, do you like gardening? carpentry? remote controlled cars or airplanes? exercising? you could even turn personal development into a hobby... 
you just gotta get excited about something. 

right now i have a project going on where i am trying to raise a fish that nobody on earth has ever been able to raise in captivity before. its an ongoing process, and i may never succeed, but the constant discussions online have put me in contact with a lot of prominent people... 
i have even had a few magazines ask me to write an article or two.

personally, i think hobbies are awesome. they are even better when you have someone else to share them with. 


the thing is, if you try to come up with something new and have a community that will appreciate your contributions, and you actively try to make contributions, your social life will take care of itself.


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## jld

I agree, As'laDain. If someone is feeling bored and lonely, the best thing is to tackle the bored part first. The lonely then tends to take care of itself.


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## As'laDain

my confession for the night...

i still struggle with some of the things i have seen... saw my best friend get ripped in half in a terrible care accident. i still carry a lot of guilt from it because i pushed him to go to a party. i still think that if i hadnt pushed him to go to the party so soon, he would still be alive. i still find myself thinking that if i would have just had more patience, that he would still be alive. i told my best friend that i wanted to leave. i wanted to go to an after party... i could have waited, but an ex-girlfriend was there and i was feeling uncomfortable around her. 

anyway, my buddy pretty much did what i wanted. he was the closest friend i have ever had... when i had a hard time accepting that my my girlfriend was cheating on me, he was the one that helped me out. he set me up with other girls, etc. he encouraged me when i was feeling down.

one of the things he did was to get me into playing paintball. i turned out to be insanely good at woodsball. apparently im a natural stalker. i have to admit, if it werent for him i wouldn't have developed my stalking skills. i got to the point where i could tag my brother from ten feet away and he had no idea where i was...
i wouldnt have made it that far if it weren't for him. he had a habit of challenging me. for paintball, he would hide in the woods and have me seek him out. i would use a little pump action PGP and he would use a fully automatic angel... 

half the time, i would beat him. it was exciting, so i did it. i practiced a lot. 

he didnt just help me by way of paintball, he helped me through martial arts as well. i have been practicing an obscure martial arts since i was very young, and he was my sparing partner for several years. he wasnt very good, but he was incredibly enthusiastic. he would attack relentlessly, until i was really good at defending myself. he liked attacking. i liked defending... it just worked for us.

i miss him...


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## jld

Oh, As'laDain, I am sure you do. He was like a brother to you.

Do you think that when people leave our lives, there may be a higher reason for that than we realize? Do people just come into our lives on accident, and leave on accident?

I don't think so.

Please cherish those memories. Please forgive yourself for what happened. I really don't think it was all in your control.

((((((As'laDain))))))


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## As'laDain

i was triggering last night when i wrote that. but, after i wrote it, i felt fine. i was immediately able to focus on everything else and let the feelings of guilt evaporate. 

thats the first time i was able to really stop it. i went from triggering to feeling fine in about ten minutes...


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## jld

So just getting it out, as openly and honestly as you could, was healing?


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## As'laDain

jld said:


> So just getting it out, as openly and honestly as you could, was healing?


yeah.


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## Adeline

isn't it amazing how therapeutic writing things out can be? I agree, this is a great idea for a thread As'laDain.

I feel like the things that I am most passionate about are the things I have least in common with people. I love discussion, and my closest friends do too, so that is good. But tangible things like my dogs, with whom I put a lot of time into, I seem to not have in common with people I meet. Not that there aren't dog lovers out there, I just don't seem to find them easily! Even my closest friends aren't dog owners, not a one! And most people that I meet through my husband's work, or my own, connect with other people by talking about their children. And here I am without human children as of yet, but I could talk up a storm about my dogs just as much as people can talk about their kids. No joke! So I have nothing to contribute to these types of conversations when it turns to kids and they start planning their playdates etc. I feel very left out as a non-mother at my age.


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## bkaydezz

As'laDain said:


> i was thinking about something... i don't go to a regular church. my church lately is my friends, family, and coworkers.
> 
> i tell them of my struggles, my transgressions, and my joys. right now i am at a point in my life where i really cant enjoy close friendships through a local church. i move too much. ill have just enough time to get to know them, and then i will move to another part of the country. so, i don't go to church, but i still find that i need to tell people when i mess up from time to time.
> 
> im in the army, and lately, that has been my platoon sergeant and other senior NCOs. when i feel like i mess up, i tell them. they hold me accountable, and i move past it with their guidance. i find this form of confession far more useful and productive than just telling a man of faith my sins. this way, i am held accountable, and i actually grow. im forced to face it.
> 
> its scary as hell.
> 
> 
> anyway, i was thinking, and i want to introduce this idea to others. so, this is my first attempt in that.
> 
> got something on your mind? did something you're ashamed of? post it here and follow advice of the TAM community. generally speaking, i find TAM to be pretty spot on when it comes to what needs to be done.


 I have a problem with admitting the truth too much. It gets me in troubles, confrontations, rejections, etc. 

The problem for myself with that is when I am truthful it never seems to aid me in the guidance department. So much judgment and humility gets pushed on me that I almost hate now to even share anything with anyone. That is why I like to share here. It is so aggravating to be honest with yourself, being raised that honesty overcomes. Inevitably, I have never seen it first hand that it is dealt with in an appropriate manner. Very frustrating. I don't believe people are as kind as they act like they are anymore. Its a shame really. Which brings me to feel like the word LOVE is tossed around. It would have to be unconditional to accept someones truth rather than to bash them to bash them for it.


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## jld

intheory said:


> @jld
> 
> I just searched "Woodstock dressing". It sounds delicious!


It is, intheory . . . and addictive!


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## forevermemorable

As'laDain said:


> i was thinking about something... i don't go to a regular church. my church lately is my friends, family, and coworkers.


Right off that back, you lost me. Although I agree that Godly friends are important, we should never forsake the asembling together of the saints (Hebrews 10:25). I can't explain it enough through trial and error, that you have got to be planted in a church! There is a dynamic that takes place when you are in a church-like structure with worship, prayer, sermon, communion, encouragement, confession, etc. In fact, something that was just placed on my heart to ask you, "When was the last time you took communion?" No, I am not Catholic at all, but there is just something about going to a church and be planted in and apart of the body, rather than isolating yourself or forsaking the asembling together of the saints.


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## As'laDain

forevermemorable said:


> Right off that back, you lost me. Although I agree that Godly friends are important, we should never forsake the asembling together of the saints (Hebrews 10:25). I can't explain it enough through trial and error, that you have got to be planted in a church! There is a dynamic that takes place when you are in a church-like structure with worship, prayer, sermon, communion, encouragement, confession, etc. In fact, something that was just placed on my heart to ask you, "When was the last time you took communion?" No, I am not Catholic at all, but there is just something about going to a church and be planted in and apart of the body, rather than isolating yourself or forsaking the asembling together of the saints.


i remember Hebrews... but it doesnt say anything about going into a specific building where people dress up in clothes that they would rarely otherwise wear and act in a way that they would rarely otherwise act and read from a book that they would never otherwise read from. 

i think Hebrews 10:25 is best reflected in Matthew 18:19


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## forevermemorable

Oh no, I am not refuting hanging out with those of like-mindedness, but I caution anyone who says that they do not need to go to church and fellowship with the saints thereof in the context of the structure that God has established.

Yes, I understand that the original church met in a home, with the Apostle Peter, but oh my, how we have evolved from those times, because America does not have to live in fear with meeting in a building or in homes any more to carry out church.

And I don't put down if a bunch of believing friends get together and have a church-like service in a home or other building of some sort (i.e. high school, dormitory, etc.). But, I do believe that a church service should be constructed as is outlined in 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus; which are known as the pastoral epistles. These books were not by chance placed in the Bible. They create a structure with how a church should be done.

The problem comes when individuals have been burned by a certain church or church group and now they isolate themselves from ever attending a "formal" church setting, solely based upon 1-2 bad church experiences. Because you found a church or two or three, doesn't mean you give up on church! It just means you keep searching for a church that you feel God would have you at. When my family moved to Los Angeles, we search many churches and we found it very difficult to find a church that we fit in, that taught the Word of God Biblically, that was not into strange fire or strange winds of doctrine, that was not into religiosity or Pharasitical attitudes, and above all else, was not seeker friendly. It took us a year, but we found a nice small Calvary Chapel church.

But hey, I have isolated myself in times past, thinking I did not need church, that I could handle life on my own...and I failed miserably. This is where satan wants to dilute someone to think that they can handle their spiritual life alone and have a person do church how they desire it. This could not be further from the truth. I have had many of friends that have gotten fed up with church and have decided to play church at home with their family or in a small group setting and I have seen some pretty funky stuff happen. Let us not forgot what happen at WACO, or with Heaven's Gates, Jimmy Jones, and many others that try to create an environment that rejected church structure to do it on their own, by their own governing rules, and what they deem what church should look like.

If you can have a church service in the comfort of your own home with a group of how ever many people come, than make sure that you follow what God would have you do. Make sure there is worship, a message, maybe the exercising of the gifts (if you believe in that), a time of communion, the giving of tithes, a ministry to the poor, a ministry to the orphan, a ministry to the widow, etc. etc. etc.

But make no mistake about it, I have never seen any brother or sister excel in the Lord when they isolate themselves from the church body or try to play church at home or someone else's home. One of two things usually happens...1) They get into very strange doctrine and practices, 2) They end up backslidding, little by little.


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## As'laDain

forevermemorable said:


> Oh no, I am not refuting hanging out with those of like-mindedness, but I caution anyone who says that they do not need to go to church and fellowship with the saints thereof in the context of the structure that God has established.
> 
> Yes, I understand that the original church met in a home, with the Apostle Peter, but oh my, how we have evolved from those times, because America does not have to live in fear with meeting in a building or in homes any more to carry out church.
> 
> And I don't put down if a bunch of believing friends get together and have a church-like service in a home or other building of some sort (i.e. high school, dormitory, etc.). But, I do believe that a church service should be constructed as is outlined in 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus; which are known as the pastoral epistles. These books were not by chance placed in the Bible. They create a structure with how a church should be done.
> 
> The problem comes when individuals have been burned by a certain church or church group and now they isolate themselves from ever attending a "formal" church setting, solely based upon 1-2 bad church experiences. Because you found a church or two or three, doesn't mean you give up on church! It just means you keep searching for a church that you feel God would have you at. When my family moved to Los Angeles, we search many churches and we found it very difficult to find a church that we fit in, that taught the Word of God Biblically, that was not into strange fire or strange winds of doctrine, that was not into religiosity or Pharasitical attitudes, and above all else, was not seeker friendly. It took us a year, but we found a nice small Calvary Chapel church.
> 
> But hey, I have isolated myself in times past, thinking I did not need church, that I could handle life on my own...and I failed miserably. This is where satan wants to dilute someone to think that they can handle their spiritual life alone and have a person do church how they desire it. This could not be further from the truth. I have had many of friends that have gotten fed up with church and have decided to play church at home with their family or in a small group setting and I have seen some pretty funky stuff happen. Let us not forgot what happen at WACO, or with Heaven's Gates, Jimmy Jones, and many others that try to create an environment that rejected church structure to do it on their own, by their own governing rules, and what they deem what church should look like.
> 
> If you can have a church service in the comfort of your own home with a group of how ever many people come, than make sure that you follow what God would have you do. Make sure there is worship, a message, maybe the exercising of the gifts (if you believe in that), a time of communion, the giving of tithes, a ministry to the poor, a ministry to the orphan, a ministry to the widow, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> But make no mistake about it, I have never seen any brother or sister excel in the Lord when they isolate themselves from the church body or try to play church at home or someone else's home. One of two things usually happens...1) They get into very strange doctrine and practices, 2) They end up backslidding, little by little.


 i should probably clarify that i cannot attend any one particular church for very long because i bounce around the country/world every couple of years. 

truth is, i have visited hundreds of churches, i just dont stick to any particular one anymore. im a far way from home. 

i never said i dont go to church, i said that church for me has become those who i see on a daily basis. 
im three thousand miles away from my pastor. i think the Lord will forgive me if i dont feel the need to stick to one place with one set of people. 

besides, i find a lot of structured ministries ineffective. for instance, ministry to the poor. its easy to just go out and hand a pamphlet to them, or give them a loaf a bread, but people rarely get to know them. 

i remember going out and talking to people in south beach miami once... there was a group of us. one of the guys with us went right into a strip club, got drunk with a few of the patrons, and pointed them to our church. lo and behold, they showed up the next weekend. 

another time, i remember one guy who was drunk on the street, covered in tattoos. he was pretty darned angry, cussing up a storm. after chatting with him a while and taking a few shots of his whiskey, he told me about his daughter who just died from leukemia a couple weeks before. he kept asking how God could do this to his little girl. i didnt have an answer for him. i just knew he was hurting. here i was trying to reach out to him and i had no idea what i could say to help him. i ended up just asking him what he is going to do. he told me he wanted to go into the missionary field to get away from home, so i put him in touch with one of the missionary goups i met in georgia. they specialize in helping people recover from that kinda trauma. 

couple years later i happened on some pocket bibles from a church that folded and decided to go see if i could find someone to give some to. i met a homeless guy who just seemed to have lost all hope for any sort of humanity. he was pretty funny though, in a crude way. i asked him about the local night clubs, which ones seem the busiest, which ones have the best reputations. then i asked him if he would like to go to those places and pray with me. its not like i had the guts to go do it by myself at the time, why not ask him to go with me? he didnt seem to have anything better to do... he insisted that he needed a bible to pray, and he couldn't go because he didnt have one. he wouldnt take one of the shiny new pocket bibles i had(gotta love the Gideons), so i ended up giving him my personal bible that i carried around everywhere. when i came back a couple years later, he was still at it, going from place to place, praying for people. he had a purpose and he loved showing it.


something strange happens when you go to normal public places and express the joy that you get from praising God. try it sometime. get a guitar and sing a praise song, like you MEAN it. people get incredibly curious. 


there are hundreds of stories i could tell like this, but i never experienced ANY of this stuff when i was sitting in a church pew. so, yeah, ill go to church when i can, but church is not where i usually see God work. its every where else, its where the dangers are. i just get too bored if im "safe".


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## forevermemorable

Hey great! The Lord does work differently through different individuals. You can be an exception to the general rule. What I see in the Big city, is there are a lot of people that sit home throughout the week and do nothing (no church attendance, no ministry, etc.).

You are in a place in which God uses you, because you allow yourself to be used by Him...praise God for that. Me on the other hand, God is using me within my church, to upload audio sermons, to reach out to the needy, to work with VBS, and other avenues. And my kids are apart of the ministry too...there is only about 100-150 of us at the church.

If it is in your ability and power to attend a church regularly, that I implore and encourage all to do so. For individuals such as yourself that do not stay in one place for too long, than what you are doing is just fine and I applaud you in the Lord. Stay connected and tuned into the Lord. Or as one pastor has said often, "Stay under the spout where the blessings come out."


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