# Update.... on my wife's EA



## Trying2figureitout

Most of you know my story...

Anywhere from 600-1200 texts per month to a single guy from the gym for at least three years. Morning on way to work, at lunch and before bed.

Took 3 years to get her to realize the damage she was causing. More often than not her texting him.

I'm more confident than not that she kept it from going full PA. But can never be sure.

That is just my gut reaction based on her reaction.

So one thing I learned is that the EA line is blurry... she still will not admit to me that it was an EA but her reaction and defense of him speaks otherwise.... she was blind to the volume of contact... after all it was just chatting about her day, him helping her with a side business, and her maintaining contact when away on girls nights out.

I think what finally tipped the scales was giving her Choice A or Choice B... Choice A was to end the affair I was certain was occurring, counseling etc. Choice B Divorce and full and complete disclosure sell the house and divide everything 50/50.

She never made a choice and she never DENIED it was an affair... so the next morning I asked if she had any concerns... she said NO but I am not giving up a friend. I'll text him less.

Well I decided to accept that as we have been actually doing really well besides sex lately. But that night I left on her counter the signs of an emotional affair and she hit 6 out of 10 and possibly all 10 on the list. Also that an EA actually hurts me worse than a PA would because of the long-term attachment. By definition its an EA.

What I notice... she wont text him and only respond shortly to any of his texts. Today zero texts between them.

So either she took it underground or she got the message he is bad for our marriage. 

She knows if I catch it going underground we are DONE! and it will get fully exposed. This is her last chance.

Anyhow now I am in wait and see mode and giving her space to process what happened... she is going from 100's of texts a month to very few. That has to be hard. Shes been very talkative and responsive to me.

I'm OK everyone you know me I have a handle on most everything. The moral of the story though.... its a fine line between an EA and a good friendship. Affair fog is tough to cut through. Her mistake was giving a "workout buddy" her number around the same time as ILYNILWYA and allowing a three year daily relationship to develop.. At least she was obvious enough to follow her trail.

Anyhow I still believe 100% I will fix our sexless marriage... going to be easier without a third party in the picture. Three years worth of work will not go to waste. I'll keep you all updated.


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## The Middleman

Trying2figureitout said:


> Anyhow I still believe 100% I will fix our sexless marriage... going to be easier without a third party in the picture. Three years worth of work will not go to waste. I'll keep you all updated.


OK, if you say so.

You gave her a choice of either A (end the affair) or B (divorce) and she figuratively flips you the bird and continues the affair. Your response ... you do nothing. Not exactly incentive for her to drop lover boy. Good luck, you're going to need it!


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## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> Most of you know my story...
> 
> Anywhere from 600-1200 texts per month to a single guy from the gym. Morning on way to work, at lunch and before bed.
> 
> Took 3 years to get her to realize the damage she was causing.
> 
> I'm more confident than not that she kept it from going full PA.
> 
> That is just my gut reaction based on her reaction.
> 
> So one thing I learned is that the EA line is blurry... she still will not admit that it was an EA.... she was blind to the volume of contact... after all it was just chatting about her day, him helping her with a side business, and her maintaining contact when away on girls nights out.
> 
> I think what finally tipped the scales was giving her Choice A or Choice B... Choice A was to end the affair I was certain was occurring, counseling etc. Choice B Divorce and full and complete disclosure sell the house and divide everything 50/50.
> 
> She never made a choice... so the next morning I asked if she had any concerns... she said NO but I am not giving up a friend. I'll text him less.
> She made her choice her friend over her huusband...
> 
> Well I decided to accept that as we have been actually doing really well besides sex lately. But that night I left on her counter the signs of an emotional affair and she hit 6 out of 10 and possibly all 10 on the list. Also thae an EA actually hurts me worse than a PA would because of the long-term attachment.
> You took the quiz for her and she hit 6 or she took it?
> 
> What I notice... she wont text him and only respond shortly to any of his texts. Today zero texts between them.
> 
> So either she took it underground or she got the message he is bad for our marriage.
> She didnt have to take it underground, read what you put before this, "She responds to his texts"..what the heck do you think that means?
> 
> She knows if I catch it going underground we are DONE! and it will get fully exposed. This is her last chance.
> 
> Anyhow now I am in wait and see mode and giving her space to process what happened... she is going from 100's of texts a month to very few. That has to be hard.
> Hard for her or you?
> 
> I'm OK everyone you know me I have a handle on most everything. The moral of the story though
> T2 the moral here is she Chose her friend over her husband, when she KNEW it bothered you, yet she chose him.
> 
> .... its a fine line between an EA and a friendship. Affair fog is tough to cut through.
> 
> Anyhow I still believe 100% I will fix our sexless marriage... going to be easier without a third party in the picture. Three years worth of work will not go to waste. I'll keep you all updated.


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## Trying2figureitout

I fully agree she chose him over me and pointed that out.... also that he lied to me when he promised me to curtail communication to only business stuff.

EAs are strong pulls.... everyone makes mistakes.

I am not going to bash my wife as long as she herself ends it. We are actually a lot better off with each other and I 'm pretty sure in the end she chose me over him after presented with undeniable proof. At least she did something which in itself is incredible... she did something! Without me forcing her too.

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

I'm fixing my marriage and giving my wife a chance.
He had to go for that to happen..better she end it in her own way.

EA's are harmful but I can see why they occur but they do break a trust in your spouse, she emotionally abused me... yes it'll be hard on her she was obviously attached.

Me I'm surprising OK because now I know WHY I've been dealt a sexless marriage over the past three years.

I took the quiz for her they were undenaible tht she would score over a two which =EA. Really no doubt.

That's better than not knowing.

Keep in mind I've been working the issue all along... I create my own luck.
I don't wish I do. She'll come around actually mostly already has. Her extracting him from her life was what was holding us back.


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## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I fully agree she chose him over me and pointed that out.... also that he lied to me when he promised me to curtail communication.
> 
> EAs are strong pulls.... everyone makes mistakes.
> Yes they are, thats why there can be NO CONTACT, none
> 
> I am not going to bash my wife as long as she ends it. We are actually a lot better off with each other and I 'm pretty sure in the end she chose me over him after presented with undeniable proof.
> T2 I'm rooting for you man, I really am but she has not ended her frienship, becuase she dosent want to, nor have you really demanded it with actions, not words but actions.
> 
> Let those without sin cast the first stone.
> Were all sinners
> 
> I'm fixing my marriage and giving my wife a chance.
> He had to go.


But he didnt go anywhere


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## LetDownNTX

Trying2figureitout said:


> I fully agree she chose him over me and pointed that out.... also that he lied to me when he promised me to curtail communication to only business stuff.
> 
> EAs are strong pulls.... everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> I am not going to bash my wife as long as she ends it. We are actually a lot better off with each other and I 'm pretty sure in the end she chose me over him after presented with undeniable proof. At least she did something.
> 
> Let those without sin cast the first stone.
> 
> I'm fixing my marriage and giving my wife a chance.
> He had to go.
> 
> EA's are harmful but I can see why they occur... yes it'll be hard on her she was obviously attached.
> 
> Me I'm surprising OK because now I know WHY I've been dealt a sexless marriage over the past three years.
> 
> That's better than not knowing.


"He had to go" but is he gone? Or she is just really hiding it well?
You said yourself you dont know!

Im an enabler, so Im not casting a stone without knowing what an enabler is and YOU, my friend are an enabler! Maybe you dont see it yet but you will, just like I did! 

Good luck!


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## walkonmars

The Middleman said:


> If you say so.
> 
> Giving her a choice of A or B and she figuratively flips you the bird, and you do nothing, is not exactly incentive to drop lover boy. Good luck, you're going to need it!


Tis is on the money. But you will need more than luck. You aren't getting any sex because she IS faithful. Just not to you.


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## Trying2figureitout

I don't doubt I'm an enabler. I was the poster boy "Nice Guy"

Affairs run their course then reality sets in.

She knows I'll find out about underground... I agree she has been faithful as that is the way she is.

Again I get it.... we also will reconcile our marriage... no doubts in my mind.
I was blind for a while but then I could see.

Life is interesting. I think though most give up to soon. Work the issue.
I'm still a Nice Guy with my head on a swivel. Not afraid of my wife anymore.

Life's a game. I don't like to lose.
I cut pretty deep to the core of her..had to blast through the defenses and expose the fog to her.

MLC


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## LetDownNTX

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't doubt I'm an enabler.
> 
> Affairs run their course then reality sets in.
> 
> She knows I'll find out about underground... I agree she has been faithful as that is the way she is.
> 
> Again I get it.... we also will reconcile our marriage... no doubts in my mind.
> I was blind for a while but then I could see.
> 
> Life is interesting.


You might want to change your name then cause it sounds like you're not really trying to figure it out, seems like you already have it all figured out!


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## WorkingOnMe

So, she called your bluff, chose choice B and you gave in. Yup, bring on year 4.


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## Trying2figureitout

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, she called your bluff, chose choice B and you gave in. Yup, bring on year 4.


We'll see. I don't think there will be a year 4 of sexless but again we'll see.


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## Ovid

I'm not saying this to hurt you, but at this point you should buy her some sexy undies and send her over to his house. 

She not only still has contact but she has your permission. You're going down hard. The sad part is you refuse to see it. I really hope you can toughen up for your sake.


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## NewM

You didn't achieve anything she got to chose you while also being able to text him which was what she had before.


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## WorkingOnMe

The thing is, if you're going to draw a line in the sand, you've got to have the stones to back it up. You let her walk past it with no consequences, so now she doesn't take your ultimatums seriously. She doesn't respect you. If you don't follow through on what you say you're going to do then the whole thing is just a big joke to her.


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## Toffer

Sorry OP but I have to agree with most others here.

You offered her choice A or B. She chose C and you're OK with that

Even if it's over between them. she's still carrying a torch for him.

I'd venture to guess that within the next 6 months you'll be dealing with the ILYBNILWY again and talk about seperation.

Sorry


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## diwali123

My gut tells me she has a burner phone. She texts on other phone a few times a day so it doesn't look suspicious. You need a VAR and a key logger, access to all her email and social network accounts. Honestly you are going to shoot yourself in the foot. Women don't want to be with someone who doesn't stand up for himself. You are choosing short term comfort over long term success in your marriage. Start reading Married Man Sex Life. Man up. (did I just say that?)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't doubt I'm an enabler. I was the poster boy "Nice Guy"
> 
> Affairs run their course then reality sets in.
> What reality has set in for her?, the reality that YOU allow her to have a close friendship with OM, thats what she relalized
> 
> She knows I'll find out about underground... I agree she has been faithful as that is the way she is.
> I repeat, she didnt take it underground!! she's doing it right in front of you, why in the world would she need to take it underground?
> 
> Again I get it.... we also will reconcile our marriage... no doubts in my mind.
> I was blind for a while but then I could see.
> T2..I say this with the best intent, but my god man, it seems you are having trouble seeing the forest through the trees, what exactly are you seeing? because on this side it dosent appear to be any good at all.
> 
> Life is interesting. I think though most give up to soon. Work the issue.
> I'm still a Nice Guy with my head on a swivel. *Not afraid of my wife anymore.*
> T2 this couldnt be more wrong, you seem terrified and thats ok to be afraid, but it is our fear that paralyzes us....
> “Everything you want is on the other side of fear.” Jack Canfield
> 
> 
> Life's a game. I don't like to lose.
> I cut pretty deep to the core of her..had to blast through the defenses and expose the fog to her.
> Yes, I agree shes in the E/A fog and you are in a fog to
> 
> MLC


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## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> We'll see. I don't think there will be a year 4 of sexless but again we'll see.


NO! Just a month ago, you were saying "there will not be a year 4!"... Now it's "we'll see"???? Seriously? You are giving in to her. She has won. You only THINK she has given it all up. How do I know? BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN THERE! I was once in YOUR WIFE'S shoes. The only difference is that mine absolutely never went PA... you are unsure about hers. Regardless, your lack of sex is STILL her remaining faithful... TO HIM!


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## anchorwatch

T, I tried as best I could not to take out the 2x4's. To me you always seem to have faith in your decisions. That included no OM in the picture. Remember that confidence? That's why this one has me perplexed. The only thing I can say to myself is you're there and see something I don't, but your explanations don't support that. I guess as you've done before, you'll do this your way. I don't support it, but I'll be pulling for your success. 

Were the text and convos flirtatious, sexual or emotional? 

Did you ask her to read Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends" 

Who is this man to her, that she chooses his friendship over her husband? 

What have you done to to back him off or C block him? 


I don't know why but it seems you want to do this in steps. Like getting a few hits to score instead of a HR? I hope, for you sake, you got this covered. Your seem to be putting the whole game on her taking each step. It's not a game I could play. I'm to possessive of my wife and my upbringing wouldn't allow it. 

Have you read Gabriel's thread, http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57830-ive-been-afraid-post.html?

Good luck, keep us posted.


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## Trying2figureitout

Here is the deal..

I will not get a VAR, hire a PI or even worry about this anymore he other guy is not worth anymore of my time... up to my wife to end it.

At the end of the day you either trust your wife or don't. Really I don't care.... she can run to him all she wants I have given her that option.

She got caught up in more than a friendship.... she loosened her own boundaries.

It was up to me to make her fully aware of the consequences and the harm she caused.

I did that and if it doesn't stop and we don't return to a sexual marriage then we fail.

MY wife has proven over and over I can trust her.... she has been made aware this relationship she fostered was hurting our marriage and family. Its a process her and I have been going through... its not like this is a "new' discovery.... I knew about this for 18 months.... however wasn't sure it was an EA. Now I'm certain just based on her reactions.

She'll fix that now she knows she needs to get her head into our marriage.

My wife texts LOTS of people... this particular guy she texted too much daily... she fell into that relationship. She'll learn a good lesson from this.


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## Hicks

Your wife is having an affair.There is no fine line between friendship and affair. Adults of the opposite sex who recreate together and communcate privately with each other undoubtedly have sex with each other. Friendships grow into love. The only friendship your wife should ever have with a man should be very minimal.

You gave her Choice A or Choice B, and she came back with Choice C. As in Continue as is.


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## KanDo

Trying2figureitout said:


> We'll see. I don't think there will be a year 4 of sexless but again we'll see.


You are the epitome of codependence. Your ability to rationalize the atrocious behavior of your wayward wife is phenomenal! I will be saving this thread as an instructional tool.

When are you ever going to stand up for yourself and exercise that Y chromosome of yours? You have all these plans, lay down ultimatums and post how your sexless marriage will be over at such and such a time and yet you DO nothing when your ultimatums are scoffed at and your deadline pass. It's almost as if you feel typing your rationalizations here gives them weight even though the good members of this forum continually point out to you the flaws in your "plans" 

I'll say it again. PLEASE, PLEASE get some IC! You are truly need it. Go to walmart and buy a backbone and some balls. You clearly dont' have any currently.


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## anchorwatch

T, If you could, your thoughts? What need did she have or why do you think she fostered this relationship?


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## Toffer

T,

Trying to be more moderate in my response here

You've heard it all from many sides. Now it's decision time. She's drawn the line in the sand by insisting she's allowed to remain friends with this interloper. What is it that you are going to do now?


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## Ovid

READ THIS POST AND SEE HOW WONDERFUL IT ALL TURNED OUT!
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/57830-ive-been-afraid-post.html


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## TCSRedhead

So, you say No Contact and she says F you and you're ok with that? 

So, if this IS physical, I'd have to ask is it ok if she just f0cks him less? That's basically what you've agreed to, especially if he's local.

As for detecting if it went underground, why do you feel so confident? Do you know how easy it is to pick up a cheap prepaid phone? Or to just meet up since they are local to each other?

Are you tracking her cell phone usage to what you see on the phone?


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## CH

Trying2figureitout said:


> up to my wife to end it.


Famous last words. Worked well for my wife until she finally gave the ultimatum and stuck to it. Me or her, if her leave right this instant and don't come back.

Actually, she buried her head in the sand for a while hoping it would go away IMO. It doesn't run it's course, this one might fizzle out but there will be a 2nd one.

You still have no boundaries at all, she's a big girl she can do what she wants. If that's your attitude, divorce and move on with your life. When you've hit that level where you just don't care anymore and she's going to have to choose, leave.

I don't mean you don't care for her, but you don't care if she chooses to stays or not anymore. If she stays, great, if she doesn't stay, I'll move on.


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## vi_bride04

You really hate yourself, don't you?


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## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Here is the deal..
> 
> I will not get a VAR, hire a PI or even worry about this anymore he other guy is not worth anymore of my time... up to my wife to end it.


Which, based on what you have posted, SHE HASN'T! She's still in the affair. But, hey, it's your decision, of course, whether to get a VAR or whatever or not. No one can force you.



Trying2figureitout said:


> At the end of the day you either trust your wife or don't. Really I don't care.... she can run to him all she wants I have given her that option.


:smthumbup: And I'm sure she appreciates you allowing it to continue.



Trying2figureitout said:


> She got caught up in more than a friendship.... she loosened her own boundaries.


Now THIS I agree with... SHE did it, absolutely, 1000% true!!



Trying2figureitout said:


> It was up to me to make her fully aware of the consequences and the harm she caused.
> 
> I did that and if it doesn't stop and we don't return to a sexual marriage then we fail.


And yet... no sex. But, I won't dwell on that part. Plenty of others who will beat that dead horse.



Trying2figureitout said:


> *MY wife has proven over and over I can trust her*.... she has been made aware this relationship she fostered was hurting our marriage and family. Its a process her and I have been going through... its not like this is a "new' discovery.... I knew about this for 18 months.... however wasn't sure it was an EA. Now I'm certain just based on her reactions.


Wait, wait...so, for 18 months, she has proven over and over that you can trust her...by having an affair?? :scratchhead: Say what????



Trying2figureitout said:


> She'll fix that now she knows she needs to get her head into our marriage.


Yea... she knew YEARS ago that her head belonged in the marriage.... and where has her head been??? Right. Next!!



Trying2figureitout said:


> My wife texts LOTS of people... this particular guy she texted too much daily... she fell into that relationship.


*NOBODY FALLS INTO AN AFFAIR*



Trying2figureitout said:


> She'll learn a good lesson from this.



Oh, I'm sure she will... I just don't think it's the lesson YOU are hoping for.


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## walkonmars

TCSRedhead said:


> So, you say No Contact and she says F you and you're ok with that?
> 
> So, if this IS physical, I'd have to ask is it ok if she just f0cks him less? That's basically what you've agreed to, especially if he's local.
> 
> As for detecting if it went underground, why do you feel so confident? Do you know how easy it is to pick up a cheap prepaid phone? Or to just meet up since they are local to each other?
> 
> Are you tracking her cell phone usage to what you see on the phone?


OUCH! That 2 x 4 raised a knot in MY head. 

T dwell on this post for the rest of today.


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## vi_bride04

walkonmars said:


> OUCH! That 2 x 4 raised a knot in MY head.
> 
> T dwell on this post for the rest of today.


Yes...please read and re read TSCs post!!!


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## DavidWYoung

The problem that you will not face is that she picked him over you. You are acting the same way I did when my sweet wife, the farm girl from Ohio had her lovers and I confronted her. I really do know what I am talking about. This is not about Ego or Pride or an EA. This is about Manhood, this is about acting like a Man to your Wife. Your wife does not look at you as a man. She looks at you as something less, and you are putting up with it because it is easier that way. Again, I know, I made that same mistake. Listen to the WISDOM of the others here. I did not have this information twenty years ago but the hurt hits me every day. I made a mistake,please learn from it. Be true to yourself. This is the one life you get to lead!


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## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> Most of you know my story...
> 
> Anywhere from 600-1200 texts per month to a single guy from the gym for at least three years. Morning on way to work, at lunch and before bed.
> 
> Took 3 years to get her to realize the damage she was causing. More often than not her texting him.
> 
> I'm more confident than not that she kept it from going full PA. But can never be sure.
> 
> That is just my gut reaction based on her reaction.
> 
> So one thing I learned is that the EA line is blurry... she still will not admit to me that it was an EA but her reaction and defense of him speaks otherwise.... she was blind to the volume of contact... after all it was just chatting about her day, him helping her with a side business, and her maintaining contact when away on girls nights out.
> 
> I think what finally tipped the scales was giving her Choice A or Choice B... Choice A was to end the affair I was certain was occurring, counseling etc. Choice B Divorce and full and complete disclosure sell the house and divide everything 50/50.
> 
> She never made a choice and she never DENIED it was an affair... so the next morning I asked if she had any concerns... she said NO but I am not giving up a friend. I'll text him less.
> 
> Well I decided to accept that as we have been actually doing really well besides sex lately. But that night I left on her counter the signs of an emotional affair and she hit 6 out of 10 and possibly all 10 on the list. Also that an EA actually hurts me worse than a PA would because of the long-term attachment. By definition its an EA.
> 
> What I notice... she wont text him and only respond shortly to any of his texts. Today zero texts between them.
> 
> So either she took it underground or she got the message he is bad for our marriage.
> 
> She knows if I catch it going underground we are DONE! and it will get fully exposed. This is her last chance.
> 
> Anyhow now I am in wait and see mode and giving her space to process what happened... she is going from 100's of texts a month to very few. That has to be hard. Shes been very talkative and responsive to me.
> 
> I'm OK everyone you know me I have a handle on most everything. The moral of the story though.... its a fine line between an EA and a good friendship. Affair fog is tough to cut through. Her mistake was giving a "workout buddy" her number around the same time as ILYNILWYA and allowing a three year daily relationship to develop.. At least she was obvious enough to follow her trail.
> 
> Anyhow I still believe 100% I will fix our sexless marriage... going to be easier without a third party in the picture. Three years worth of work will not go to waste. I'll keep you all updated.


Wow. 

1) You are in a sexless marriage.

2) Your wife has been in at least an EA with a single guy from the gym for three years!! OMG. How often does she see him at the GYM or elsewhere? 

3) She was texting him 600 to 1200 times a month. How many times a month does she text you?

4) Why are you so cool about her having a close male friend like this, especially in a sexless marriage? It is an advanced EA BTW. No fine line here.

4) She texts him when she is out on GNOs. Really? How do you know he they are not getting together. 

Look this is an advanced EA and sounds very much ike a PA to me. No guy invests this amount of time in a mrried woman withou other motives and a complete lack of respect for ther husband. No doubt he knows she is in a sexless marriage.

She has likely taken the affair underground.

This all said why in the world would you be ok with your wife having this guy as a friend in any event? I mean really, you are in a sexless marriage and your wife befriends a single guy from the GYM! Wow. Not good.

What other things do they do together? What are her GNOs?

Ypu gave her a choice between giving him up and a divorce and you let her stay with her EA partner. BAD IDEA. The only way out of an EA is to go complete and permanent no contact.

She is having enough sex with you to allow her to have her boy friend. She is cake eating. In many ways you are the third person in the marriage.

Good luck. You should have dealt with this from the beginning and not been ok with this guy friend of hers.

Do you guys date each other and spend a lot of one on one time together? Hard to believe she would have the time and energy for this guy when she should be thinking about you. Do they exchange gifts? Are you sure they actually are at the GYM together?


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## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> I fully agree she chose him over me and pointed that out.... also that he lied to me when he promised me to curtail communication to only business stuff.
> 
> EAs are strong pulls.... everyone makes mistakes.
> 
> I am not going to bash my wife as long as she herself ends it. We are actually a lot better off with each other and I 'm pretty sure in the end she chose me over him after presented with undeniable proof. At least she did something which in itself is incredible... she did something! Without me forcing her too.
> 
> Let those without sin cast the first stone.
> 
> I'm fixing my marriage and giving my wife a chance.
> He had to go for that to happen..better she end it in her own way.
> 
> EA's are harmful but I can see why they occur but they do break a trust in your spouse, she emotionally abused me... yes it'll be hard on her she was obviously attached.
> 
> Me I'm surprising OK because now I know WHY I've been dealt a sexless marriage over the past three years.
> 
> I took the quiz for her they were undenaible tht she would score over a two which =EA. Really no doubt.
> 
> That's better than not knowing.
> 
> Keep in mind I've been working the issue all along... I create my own luck.
> I don't wish I do. She'll come around actually mostly already has. Her extracting him from her life was what was holding us back.


EAs are not mistakes. Three year EAs especially.

I am confused over the business stuff. Is he her Personal Trainer? Does she work with him.

Forget that scoreing garbage. get into the real world. Your wife chose another man over you. End of story. This is not a mistake. It is a chocie. her choice is very bad but it is your choice to put up with it that is the biggest problem.

So reading this post agin we have someone who has put up with an EA for three years and probably more and now is defending thier wife for some reason. Why? Is this just to get a rise out of people? What is it you are looking for?

She has been in the affair at least three years ............


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## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't doubt I'm an enabler. I was the poster boy "Nice Guy"
> 
> *Affairs run their course then reality sets in.*
> 
> She knows I'll find out about underground... I agree she has been faithful as that is the way she is.
> 
> Again I get it.... we also will reconcile our marriage... no doubts in my mind.
> I was blind for a while but then I could see.
> 
> Life is interesting. I think though most give up to soon. Work the issue.
> I'm still a Nice Guy with my head on a swivel. Not afraid of my wife anymore.
> 
> Life's a game. I don't like to lose.
> I cut pretty deep to the core of her..had to blast through the defenses and expose the fog to her.
> 
> MLC


So now you are giving advice to others that they give up too soon. That three years with a spouse in an affair is just fine and worth the wait. Are you serious? Or are you just poking at folks on TAM? 
Let the affair run its course. Three years is a relationship. Wjhat makes you think she will not just continue with this guy and / or find another guy?

Are you advocating this as a success story?


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> Here is the deal..
> 
> I will not get a VAR, hire a PI or even worry about this anymore he other guy is not worth anymore of my time... up to my wife to end it.
> But he's worth her time, her 600+ texts a month
> 
> At the end of the day you either trust your wife or don't. Really I don't care.... she can run to him all she wants I have given her that option.
> You do care very much, and she bascially has your permission to run to him all she pleases.
> 
> She got caught up in more than a friendship.... she loosened her own boundaries.
> Yes she has and she continues to have poor boundaries, as you do...both by choice
> 
> It was up to me to make her fully aware of the consequences and the harm she caused.
> What consequences? the threats, the ultimatums and lines in the sand...all ignored
> 
> I did that and if it doesn't stop and we don't return to a sexual marriage then we fail.
> Agreed
> 
> MY wife has proven over and over I can trust her.... she has been made aware this relationship she fostered was hurting our marriage and family. Its a process her and I have been going through... its not like this is a "new' discovery.... I knew about this for 18 months.... however wasn't sure it was an EA. Now I'm certain just based on her reactions.
> Yes you can trust her to treat you and your marriage with disrespect.
> 
> She'll fix that now she knows she needs to get her head into our marriage.
> 
> My wife texts LOTS of people... this particular guy she texted too much daily... she fell into that relationship. She'll learn a good lesson from this.


Well as her husband you need to make her see you will fall right out of this realantionship right now....if she dosent get her **** straight!! PDQ


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> Here is the deal..
> 
> I will not get a VAR, hire a PI or even worry about this anymore he other guy is not worth anymore of my time... up to my wife to end it.
> 
> At the end of the day you either trust your wife or don't. Really I don't care.... she can run to him all she wants I have given her that option.
> 
> She got caught up in more than a friendship.... she loosened her own boundaries.
> 
> It was up to me to make her fully aware of the consequences and the harm she caused.
> 
> I did that and if it doesn't stop and we don't return to a sexual marriage then we fail.
> 
> MY wife has proven over and over I can trust her.... she has been made aware this relationship she fostered was hurting our marriage and family. Its a process her and I have been going through... its not like this is a "new' discovery.... I knew about this for 18 months.... however wasn't sure it was an EA. Now I'm certain just based on her reactions.
> 
> She'll fix that now she knows she needs to get her head into our marriage.
> 
> My wife texts LOTS of people... this particular guy she texted too much daily... she fell into that relationship. She'll learn a good lesson from this.


Wow. Just wow. This says you flat just are not willing to fight for your marriage. Ok good luck.

I am still confuse dat who this guy is. he is a single guy at the GYM and then there is a comment about them doing business together?
Is he a co-worker?
You feel she can be trusted ... wow.


----------



## Alyosha

If trying2figureitout isn't a troll, this is a fascinating and sad thread.

3 years going on 4 without sex with the woman you are married to? Huh? 1 year in pretty much all states is legally considered abandonment and grounds for granting divorce.

Texts with the OM 600-1200 times per month for THREE YEARS??!!!!???

With all due respect, there is just no way that any heterosexual man would put that kind of time and effort into a relationship in which he wasn't hitting it. NO WAY.

It is a PA or this a troll post.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Alyosha said:


> If trying2figureitout isn't a troll, this is a fascinating and sad thread.
> 
> 3 years going on 4 without sex with the woman you are married to? Huh? 1 year in pretty much all states is legally considered abandonment and grounds for granting divorce.
> 
> Texts 600-1200 times per month for THREE YEARS??!!!!???
> 
> With all due respect, there is just no way that any heterosexual man would put that kind of time and effort into a relationship in which he wasn't hitting it. NO WAY.
> 
> It is a PA or this a troll post.


Nope he's for real....read some of his other threads been going on a long time


----------



## Shaggy

I would start texting her a lot. Especially at times she would have texted him. That way if she's using another app to text him, she'll have to jump back and forth. If she's using a burner phone it'll be really annoying to her to have to switch phones.


----------



## KanDo

strugglinghusband said:


> Nope he's for real....read some of his other threads been going on a long time


YEs. He is for real. It seems impossible; but there he is. In a way I feel bad that TAM is here for him. I think his posting steels him to continue in the pergatory he lives in.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I understand where you all are coming from.

Reason I allowed a choice C is that some of the hard evidence I came across ended up being fully explainable even though I was 100% certain it pointed to a PA...that just shows you can never be 100% certain. 

STILL I'M GLAD IT CAME DOWN TO CHOICES A and B.... gave her a real chance to THINK for once. She did.. that alone is a win.

So I backed down from insisting on all the items of Option A on my own after we discussed what really occurred.

However I stuck firm on the OM and my opinion of that relationship. He to me is a threat and a liar.

You all are jumping to conclusions it was a PA, I myself believe is more likely than not it wasn't even though I know the odds are about 50/50 as that's the rate of EA's going PA

It was an EA and by definition an Affair. I'm 99.9% certain.

BTW she was not talking about her OB/gyn visit to him.... it was about a corporate visit she had... still not a topic that should have been shared....no reason for him to need to know....part of the day to day updates they shared.

Now there is such a thing as laying back and just watching what happens now. I've been working this issue for three years. I know when to chill and when to press hard, I've been on a full court press for well over a month....shes had to discuss a lot with me over that time frame actually many hours worth of discussions.

Now is the time to chill and let her process her own closure of that long-term friendship. I didn't tell her to stop.... she did that on her own. I told her she needed to deal with it.

She won't take it underground. If she does she'll end up divorced... she knows the risks of further deceit we been discussing a lot lately.... we have an solid understanding on many levels.

I know many of you got burned... I may also but again I may just turn my marriage around . Because I won't give up on that as long as I'm with her.
We'll see won't we

BTW I only come back to TAM so you all can benefit from a possible success story.
I'm actually pretty fine with everything surprisingly.
I've worked hard on turning our marriage around... I'd be surprised if it didn't work.

Again my wife is NOT typical. So some of her actions are just her I knew that going into this marriage.

Actually pursuing right now is the wrong thing to do... sitting back is what needs to occur.
Hard to break through that FOG... I did.


----------



## Alyosha

Trying, have you met this OM?

If so, does he seem like the kind of guy who would put in 600-1200 texts per month for three years to maintain a platonic relationship?

Does he have a girlfriend or wife or does he date women?

Is your wife the kind of woman who can go that long without sex?

This whole thing is fascinating to me. It's frankly incredible.


----------



## walkonmars

The FASTEST way to 'turn it around' is to let her go. Seriously, as long as you are there for her she can wring her hands and wrestle with her dilemma. 

As soon as show you her you're not going to be there. Tell her to pack her stuff and go. You will see the fastest turn-around. It won't take another 3 years. 

BTW has she always be asexual? If not, then you know she's not going without.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Trying - I know you're thinking this will all resolve itself on it's own but what motivation does she have for stopping this relationship and stepping back in to her marriage? 

Right now, she literally has her cake and eats it too. She doesn't have sex with you, she puts time and attention into this other man. Why is that ok with you? Don't you feel you are worth more than being second fiddle in your own life?

I'm really trying to understand this. Even if it isn't physical (I'm having a hard time really believing that), she should be more than willing to drop all contact with this person in the interest of working on your marriage and working on these issues.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Alyosha said:


> Trying, have you met this OM?
> 
> If so, does he seem like the kind of guy who would put in 600-1200 texts per month for three years to maintain a platonic relationship?
> 
> Does he have a girlfriend or wife or does he date women?
> 
> Is your wife the kind of woman who can go that long without sex?
> 
> This whole thing is fascinating to me. It's frankly incredible.



I've texted the OM he's actually OK with me when we text he apologizes but he didn't stop... mainly because my wife was the one texting him. Shes the one who needed validation.

He has a live in girlfriend

My wife can go a loong time without sex... she is a go go go person and usually exhausted at night. Sex is not a big priority although she says she enjoys it. Its frustrating because shes pretty hot.

I agree it is incredible but I've found a way to cope. She'll return now that shes aware of what the OM was doing to her and our family. I do plan to have this all wrapped up though soon.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TCSRedhead said:


> Trying - I know you're thinking this will all resolve itself on it's own but what motivation does she have for stopping this relationship and stepping back in to her marriage?
> 
> Right now, she literally has her cake and eats it too. She doesn't have sex with you, she puts time and attention into this other man. Why is that ok with you? Don't you feel you are worth more than being second fiddle in your own life?
> 
> I'm really trying to understand this. Even if it isn't physical (I'm having a hard time really believing that), she should be more than willing to drop all contact with this person in the interest of working on your marriage and working on these issues.


I believe she herself decided it wasn't worth risking her marriage. She likely ended it or at least severely curtailed it. I mean there are no texts in fact she is just generally texting less. I didn't tell her to stop (I gave her info that if its an EA she needs to stop) so ultimately she did whatever on her own. She knows she has a "texting addiction" shes freely admitted that and admits its a problem.

She is aware of all ramifications of her behaviors. She is smart. She wants to remain married and says she loves me.

Its clear to her I won't I won't tolerate another man in my marriage...it just took her a day to figure that out on her own. She'll have to cope without her text buddy.


----------



## walkonmars

Quote: "she is smart"

Is she ever!


----------



## tom67

:


TCSRedhead said:


> Trying - I know you're thinking this will all resolve itself on it's own but what motivation does she have for stopping this relationship and stepping back in to her marriage?
> 
> Right now, she literally has her cake and eats it too. She doesn't have sex with you, she puts time and attention into this other man. Why is that ok with you? Don't you feel you are worth more than being second fiddle in your own life?
> 
> I'm really trying to understand this. Even if it isn't physical (I'm having a hard time really believing that), she should be more than willing to drop all contact with this person in the interest of working on your marriage and working on these issues.


You have gotten some good info but you can't nice her out of this you have tried this and where has it gotten you?:banghead::banghead:


----------



## vi_bride04

walkonmars said:


> Quote: "she is smart"
> 
> Is she ever!


I was thinking the same thing..

If she really does have a texting addiction, its not going to stop in a short period of time. She will be smart enough to figure out another way...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Entropy3000 said:


> So now you are giving advice to others that they give up too soon. That three years with a spouse in an affair is just fine and worth the wait. Are you serious? Or are you just poking at folks on TAM?
> Let the affair run its course. Three years is a relationship. Wjhat makes you think she will not just continue with this guy and / or find another guy?
> 
> Are you advocating this as a success story?


Affairs are at all different levels... I believe hers was fairly low key.... long-term but low key. 

Affairs do run their course once the wayward spouse sees no future in them... She will not repeat as we are good now.

I firmly believe mine will be a success... otherwise I wouldn't bother.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

tom67 said:


> :
> You have gotten some good info but you can't nice her out of this you have tried this and where has it gotten you?:banghead::banghead:


I wouldn't say I "nice her out of it" she said she wanted to strangle me just a couple weeks ago LOL

I've been anything but nice, I have been in control throughout and not a jerk... had to treat her like a disobeying teen daughter.

I am way beyond trying to nice it out. Pretty much take it or leave it now. For me I'm already living a single life just waiting for her to rejoin our marriage.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> Affairs are at all different levels... I believe hers was fairly low key.... long-term but low key.
> 
> Affairs do run their course once the wayward spouse sees no future in them... She will not repeat as we are good now.


600 to 1200 texts a month for three years.

She refuses to give him up when her husband asks her to stop.

She lives in a sexless marriage with her husband.

There is nothing fairly low key about any of this. But you want to believe this so you will. Again what business does she have with him? Is he a co-worker? I saw he was a single guy at the GYM.

How often does she see him? How often does she go to the GYM. What other activities do they have together?

You have been in control this whole time. What does that mean? How have you been in control. You said you just trust her.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I believe she herself decided it wasn't worth risking her marriage. She likely ended it or at least severely curtailed it. I mean there are no texts in fact she is just generally texting less. I didn't tell her to stop (I gave her info that if its an EA she needs to stop) so ultimately she did whatever on her own. She knows she has a "texting addiction" shes freely admitted that and admits its a problem.


"I believe" "She likely".... but you don't KNOW. You HOPE, but she hasn't shown anything as proof that it's ended.



Trying2figureitout said:


> She is aware of all ramifications of her behaviors. She is smart. She wants to remain married and says she loves me.


And yet, it didn't stop her from cheating in the first place. "She ... says she loves me" Words, T2, merely words. Her actions have yet to show it.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Its clear to her I won't I won't tolerate another man in my marriage...it just took her a day to figure that out on her own. She'll have to cope without her text buddy.


How, exactly, have you made it clear that you won't tolerate another man in your marriage? When, exactly, did you do this? When you first confronted her and she explained it all away (just as I did with my husband)? Or was it when she stopped having sex with you? You are letting her do what she wants, with no real consequences. Hell, you even changed your stance from "THERE WILL NOT BE A YEAR 4!!" to "Well, we'll see what happens..." Bull. You are letting her call the shots because you're scared, and you damn well know it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Entropy3000 said:


> 600 to 1200 texts a month for three years.
> 
> She refuses to give him up when her husband asks her to stop.
> 
> She lives in a sexless marriage with her husband.
> 
> There is nothing fairly low key about any of this. But you want to believe this so you will. Again what business does she have with him? Is he a co-worker? I saw he was a single guy at the GYM.
> 
> How often does she see him? How often does she go to the GYM. What other activities do they have together?
> 
> You have been in control this whole time. What does that mean? How have you been in control. You said you just trust her.


Yes over 10,000 texts a year between them for three years.

Who's to say she hasn't given him up.. her actions this week say otherwise.

He was a workout buddy but no longer goes to that gym. No other activities that shes mentioned.

He does help her... sell stuff. She has a viable side business


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> Yes over 10,000 texts a year between them for three years.
> 
> Who's to say she hasn't given him up.. her actions this week say otherwise.
> 
> He was a workout buddy but no longer goes to that gym. No other activities that shes mentioned.
> 
> He does help her... sell stuff. She has a viable side business


HOW CAN YOU CONFIRM NO CONTACT?? 

Do you follow her to the gym? Or do you just believe everything she tells you???

How are you verifying NC??? 

Cheaters are liars and she is a cheater!!!!!


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Its clear to her I won't I won't tolerate another man in my marriage...it just took her a day to figure that out on her own.


 Why would she think that you will not tolerate another man in your marraige when you have let him be in your marraige for three years and backed down when she called your bluff? Hint: when it comes to affairs, there is no secret non-discussed understanding that she will end it; there is only a clear understanding that she is to go completely no contact with them and give you full transparency and passwords. Anything less is just you fooling yourself because you do not want face the reality that she has chosen the other man (OM) to meet her needs.

Also, when you look at the fact that you had what you thought was 100% proof that it went physical, coupled with the sexless marriage, that equals that the story that she told you was false. It is both a emotional affair (EA) and a physical affair (PA), but again you have also chosen to fool yourself into believing her false explanation, because again you do not want to face the reality that she has chosen the OM meet her needs.

It is painful to read your posts. Everyone but you knows what is happening here. At this point she is laughing at you with the OM. She does not respect you or your warnings. She cannot love someone that she does not respect. Although it may be too late, the only chance that you have of saving your marraige is to be really willing to end it now. Back up your demands and file for divorce today and mean it. Only take her back if she begs and shows real remorse, and even then think about it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> "I believe" "She likely".... but you don't KNOW. You HOPE, but she hasn't shown anything as proof that it's ended.
> 
> 
> 
> And yet, it didn't stop her from cheating in the first place. "She ... says she loves me" Words, T2, merely words. Her actions have yet to show it.
> 
> 
> 
> How, exactly, have you made it clear that you won't tolerate another man in your marriage? When, exactly, did you do this? When you first confronted her and she explained it all away (just as I did with my husband)? Or was it when she stopped having sex with you? You are letting her do what she wants, with no real consequences. Hell, you even changed your stance from "THERE WILL NOT BE A YEAR 4!!" to "Well, we'll see what happens..." Bull. You are letting her call the shots because you're scared, and you damn well know it.


I have not changed fro us resolving things 100% by next year actually the 4th anniversary of ILYNILWY is the decision point. That has not changed.

I'm not scared... I'm sticking with my plan. Actually I'm perfectly fine as the plan is going smooth now.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> He does help her... sell stuff. She has a viable side business


Wait, i just saw this....so there is still contact between them....??

You will be in year 4 of a sexless marriage....and you are the one doing it to yourself.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Trying2figureitout said:


> Affairs do run their course once the wayward spouse sees no future in them... She will not repeat as we are good now.


Um, no, that isn't true. There does not need to be a future in the affair, that's the inherent part of it is the very illicit nature of an affair.

The WS is looking for something to fill a void in their life. Perhaps THIS partner will be out the door but to be replaced by another.

I wish you luck, truly but I can't help but feel you're being naive.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Why would she think that you will not tolerate another man in your marraige when you have let him be in your marraige for three years and backed down when she called your bluff? Hint: when it comes to affairs, there is no secret non-discussed understanding that she will end it; there is only a clear understanding that she is to go completely go no contact with them and give you full transparency and passwords. Anything less is just you fooling yourself because you do not want face the reality that she has chosen the other man (OM) to meet her needs.
> 
> Also, when you look at the fact that you had what you thought was 100% proof that it went physical, coupled with the sexless marriage, that equals that the story that she told you was false. It is both a emotional affair (EA) and a physical affair (PA), but again you have also chosen to fool yourself into believing her false explanation, because again you do not want to face the reality that she has chosen the OM meet her needs.
> 
> It is painful to read your posts. Everyone but you knows what is happening here. At this point she is laughing at you with the OM. She does not respect you or your warnings. She cannot love someone that she does not respect. Although it may be too late, the only chance that you have of saving your marraige is to be really willing to end it now. Back up your demands and file for divorce today and mean it. Only take her back if she begs and shows real remorse, and even then think about it.


Um no. I know she got some needs from him... I'm not dumb.
I was willing to end it last weekend now I'm giving her a chance. Shes responding to that chance.

Again you all are too quick to pull the trigger on things like this.

3 years for a lifetime is not a bad call. Many marriages go through a period like this. Many come out better after.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> HOW CAN YOU CONFIRM NO CONTACT??
> 
> Do you follow her to the gym? Or do you just believe everything she tells you???
> 
> How are you verifying NC???
> 
> Cheaters are liars and she is a cheater!!!!!




You know... again at some point you have to trust your spouse. This isn't the CIA.

I trust my wife. She made a mistake and now realizes it.

I will allow her time to process what occurred.

I think some people do more harm trying to end affairs than good. they aren't the end of the world and you do have to live with your spouse after.

Some people don't see EAs as cheating... she wasn't so much a liar more just not being very forthcoming with details. So I know some details she would not like to share... that's fine as long as she ends it.

Only lie I caught her on was if she had "feelings" for him to which she replied "no"... obviously in the end she had some not wanting to give up that friendship and risking her marriage.

Again feelings is somewhat ambiguous.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> Um no. I know she got some needs from him... I'm not dumb.
> I was willing to end it last weekend now I'm giving her a chance. Shes responding to that chance.
> 
> Again you all are too quick to pull the trigger on things like this.
> 
> 3 years for a lifetime is not a bad call. Many marriages go through a period like this. Many come out better after.


wow......

Just get some self respect, man. I know of NO MARRIAGES that would "come out better" with another man in the picture for 3 years and the husband knowing about it. 

That isn't a marriage.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> You know... again at some point you have to trust your spouse. This isn't the CIA.
> 
> I trust my wife. She made a mistake and now realizes it.


Let's be clear here... an affair isn't a mistake. An affair is a choice. She has chosen to cheat, and is likely still doing it... she just learned to hide it better.

Yes, there DOES come a point where you trust your spouse...trust but verify. However, YOU DO NOT TRUST YOUR SPOUSE WHILE THEY ARE CHEATING!!!! 

Really, I wonder why I'm wasting my breath (or typing) on this... You know what we say is true. You just don't want to face it.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

T2's ostrich like behavior sure does work everyone up. :rofl:


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I was willing to end it last weekend now I'm giving her a chance. Shes responding to that chance.


 If she actually told you this I would agree, but she did not say this to you; in fact she said the exact opposite when she told you that she will not give him up as a friend. Just because she decided to take it underground does not mean that she has agreed to end it.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Again you all are too quick to pull the trigger on things like this.
> 
> 3 years for a lifetime is not a bad call. Many marriages go through a period like this. Many come out better after.


 Telling you to pull the trigger after 3 years is not being "too quick to pull the trigger". The longer that this goes on, the more respect that she loses for you, and the less likely it becomes that you can save your marraige.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Let's be clear here... an affair isn't a mistake. An affair is a choice. She has chosen to cheat, and is likely still doing it... she just learned to hide it better.
> 
> Yes, there DOES come a point where you trust your spouse...trust but verify. However, YOU DO NOT TRUST YOUR SPOUSE WHILE THEY ARE CHEATING!!!!
> 
> Really, I wonder why I'm wasting my breath (or typing) on this... You know what we say is true. You just don't want to face it.


Shes dealing with it after being presented the details of what an EA is.

I'm at the end of a long process I've been working on her for a long time I know when she's made a decision.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> If she actually told you this I would agree, but she did not say this to you; in fact she said the exact opposite when she told you that she will not give him up as a friend. Just because she decided to take it underground does not mean that she has agreed to end it.
> 
> Telling you to pull the trigger after 3 years is not being "too quick to pull the trigger". The longer that this goes on, the more respect that she loses for you, and the less likely it becomes that you can save your marraige.


That's exactly why I've been pressing hard for over a month.

I know it needs resolved now.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Shes dealing with it after being presented the details of what an EA is.
> 
> I'm at the end of a long process I've been working on her for a long time I know when she's made a decision.


It was a long process because she had you snowed. You accepted all of her explanations. You trusted her all this time, and continue to trust that a cheater is telling you the truth. 

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## TCSRedhead

One last recommendation - pick up 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> It was a long process because she had you snowed. You accepted all of her explanations. You trusted her all this time, and continue to trust that a cheater is telling you the truth.
> 
> :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


It was a long process because she had to reconnect to me after "Turning off emotions" for me

Her explanations were valid... not that I condoned them.
Took this long to see eye to eye.
Shes pretty much re-connected but still had this guy in her life... I had to extract him somehow.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TCSRedhead said:


> One last recommendation - pick up 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass.


Thanks I'm aware of that title already may read it.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> It was a long process because she had to reconnect to me after "Turning off emotions" for me
> 
> Her explanations were valid... not that I condoned them.
> Took this long to see eye to eye.
> Shes pretty much re-connected but still had this guy in her life... I had to extract him somehow.


He's not extracted


----------



## workindad

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think some people do more harm trying to end affairs than good. they aren't the end of the world and you do have to live with your spouse after.



T2 actually- you do not need to live with your spouse after an affair.

I wish you all the luck in the world.

WD


----------



## Trying2figureitout

WorkingOnMe said:


> T2's ostrich like behavior sure does work everyone up. :rofl:


I know its funny.... I post one little thing and a hell breaks loose.

You all cant believe I have it handled can you?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Trying2figureitout said:


> I know its funny.... I post one little thing and a hell breaks loose.
> 
> You all cant believe I have it handled can you?


No. Sorry. We can't.


----------



## Maricha75

vi_bride04 said:


> He's not extracted


My thoughts exactly... as long as there is ANY contact, he had not been extracted. That means contact ANYWHERE, including the side business you said she has. He needs to be out of that as well.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Trying2figureitout said:


> I know its funny.... I post one little thing and a hell breaks loose.
> 
> You all cant believe I have it handled can you?


Key word in WorkingOnMe's post = ostrich. As in you're burying your head in the sand to avoid seeing the problem.

How did you extract the OM? Isn't she still texting him? Do you see all of these texts or does she delete them?

Have you had a chance to look at her email account?


----------



## pidge70




----------



## Trying2figureitout

TCSRedhead said:


> Key word in WorkingOnMe's post = ostrich. As in you're burying your head in the sand to avoid seeing the problem.
> 
> How did you extract the OM? Isn't she still texting him? Do you see all of these texts or does she delete them?
> 
> Have you had a chance to look at her email account?


She stopped texting him yesterday day after the EA 101 note.

I don't ask for the texts as in I don't care.

I have looked at e-mail nothing there.


I am pretty aware of what was going on.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> That's exactly why I've been pressing hard for over a month.
> 
> I know it needs resolved now.


 Simple key question, has she told you face to face that she will end all contact with the other man (OM) now and forever? Unless you can clearly answer yes to this, nothing else really matters.


----------



## TCSRedhead

TRy said:


> Simple key question, has she told you face to face that she will end all contact with the other man (OM) now and forever? Unless you can clearly answer yes to this, nothing else really matters.


And done a no contact text/letter to the OM?

From what the OP has said, they do business together so there would be ongoing contact. This translates to 'EA going underground'.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Simple key question, has she told you face to face that she will end all contact with the other man (OM) now and forever? Unless you can clearly answer yes to this, nothing else really matters.


No and I don't plan to either


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TCSRedhead said:


> And done a no contact text/letter to the OM?
> 
> From what the OP has said, they do business together so there would be ongoing contact. This translates to 'EA going underground'.



No she would have to do that herself. Pretty sure she'll cut him out of the side business if she really is ending it.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> Yes over 10,000 texts a year between them for three years.
> 
> Who's to say she hasn't given him up.. her actions this week say otherwise.
> 
> He was a workout buddy but no longer goes to that gym. No other activities that shes mentioned.
> 
> *He does help her... sell stuff. She has a viable side business*


Very vague. He helps her sell stuff. Ok fine. So they do interact outside of the GYM in some manner.

No other activities she has mentioned. Surely she would tell you though. Surely her being in a prolonged affair is no indication that she can't be trusted completely.


----------



## mel123

Maricha75 said:


> Let's be clear here... an affair isn't a mistake. An affair is a choice. She has chosen to cheat, and is likely still doing it... she just learned to hide it better.
> 
> Yes, there DOES come a point where you trust your spouse...trust but verify. However, YOU DO NOT TRUST YOUR SPOUSE WHILE THEY ARE CHEATING!!!!
> 
> Really, I wonder why I'm wasting my breath (or typing) on this... You know what we say is true. You just don't want to face it.


:iagree:



Dont understand why you allow this :scratchhead:


This is most likely PA too you just don't know it . If she is not having sex with you she is getting her needs met somewhere else


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> No she would have to do that herself. Pretty sure she'll cut him out of the side business *if* she really is ending it.


Such a big, little word.....*IF*


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> No and I don't plan to either


This really says it all...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

The sex thing/delay is probably delayed because I specified I don't wan sex with her until she actually wants to have sex with me.

I can wait until that happens no biggie,,,she also knows i expect a a higher frequency. So its basically waiting for her to wrap her mind around a new sex life.

I'm done with lame sex. Pretty sure she hasn't had sex with anyone else. She was getting emotional needs filed that was enough.

Now she'll concentrate on us.


----------



## cali_chick

I feel so bad for you. You're in such denial. You also sound like a nice guy, and that makes this worse. Out there, somewhere, there is a lady that will love you and have sex with you. Unfortunately, your wife isn't that one. 

Sad.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

cali_chick said:


> I feel so bad for you. You're in such denial. You also sound like a nice guy, and that makes this worse. Out there, somewhere, there is a lady that will love you and have sex with you. Unfortunately, your wife isn't that one.
> 
> Sad.


Thanks for the thought.

I am a nice guy and proud of it. I know I'd be a catch for many ladies... but I'm married.

My wife will have sex with me... she already offered but I turned it down because it was the way she said it... she wasn't ready.

My wife and I are re-building a solid relationship and its a process...I want a permanent fix. So I'll take my time. Her dealing with the OM had to occur.

I'm fine I'm a long way into this a little longer won't kill me.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> No and I don't plan to either


 The question was "has she told you face to face that she will end all contact with the other man (OM) now and forever?". This question had nothing to do with you planning anything. She either told you this or she did not. Your "No" means that the affair is still on, and that everything else does not really matter. BTW, since when is always backing down when push comes to shove a plan?

You have tried again and again to nice your way out of this for 3 years to no avail. Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". How about trying something really different? How about demanding that your wife honor her marraige and put her husband before all others by ending all contact with the other man? How about backing up this reasonable demand with action and consequences?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> The question was "has she told you face to face that she will end all contact with the other man (OM) now and forever?". This question had nothing to do with you planning anything. She either told you this or she did not. Your "No" means that the affair is still on, and that everything else does not really matter. BTW, since when is always backing down when push comes to shove a plan?
> 
> You have tried again and again to nice your way out of this for 3 years to no avail. Albert Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". How about trying something really different? How about demanding that your wife honor her marraige and put her husband before all others? How about backing up your option A and B with action and consequences?



I don't need proof that would serve no purpose so far shes held to her word of texting him less in fact zero, in fact I'm under the assumption everything is resolved and putting myself in that state of mind. See I don't believe in forcing someone to do anything its up to her to ultimately decide what she wants out of life.

All I can do is control me and offer advice. My wife will figure out that she has failed me and will correct that. She is already doing that in fact has been for a while.

Sexless marriages do not turn on a dime. Most that resolve do so in years 3 or 4.... so i'm on track for that.

Again I have to live with her the rest of my life so whatever we manage will be organic improvement.... the walls in her heart are gone now its just the final re-connecting.

Her not texting the OM cold turkey is a pretty big step and she did that without me stating she had too.... I told her she could keep him as a friend if it was that important to her.... I think she finally understood he really wasn't a friend but a threat to her marriage and was hurting our family.

Life is choices.... she has hers to make. Time will tell.
I'm pretty lucky and things usually work out for me.


----------



## pidge70




----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks for the thought.
> 
> I am a nice guy and proud of it. I know I'd be a catch for many ladies... but I'm married.
> 
> *My wife will have sex with me... she already offered but I turned it down because it was the way she said it... she wasn't ready.*
> 
> My wife and I are re-building a solid relationship and its a process...I want a permanent fix. So I'll take my time. Her dealing with the OM had to occur.
> 
> I'm fine I'm a long way into this a little longer won't kill me.


Let's say for the sake of the argument that your wife did not have a PA with this OM and that your wife's texts to the other man were largely innocent...

With that assumption, WHY WOULD YOU NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WIFE???? Did you ever stop to think that your wife might just RECONNECT to you because you would be sharing an intimate moment together? Hell, maybe your wife would day "T2, I forgot how much I missed having you"... You never know unless you try! 

Here's what Fred has to say...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Let's say for the sake of the argument that your wife did not have a PA with this OM and that your wife's texts to the other man were largely innocent...
> 
> With that assumption, WHY WOULD YOU NOT HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WIFE???? Did you ever stop to think that your wife might just RECONNECT to you because you would be sharing an intimate moment together? Hell, maybe your wife would day "T2, I forgot how much I missed having you"... You never know unless you try!
> 
> Here's what Fred has to say...


It was her saying "If you want i'll spread my legs" not exactly romantic. LOL.

No Thanks. I'll hang.


----------



## walkonmars

T
I envision you with a shaved head clad in the saffron robes of a master Tibetan monk - on a higher moral plane very cerebral. 

Totally contemplative and at peace. (OTOH I envision your wife clad in .... awww never mind)

Peace to you and keep the good thoughts.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't need proof that would serve no purpose so far shes held to her word of texting him less in fact zero, in fact I'm under the assumption everything is resolved and putting myself in that state of mind. See I don't believe in forcing someone to do anything its up to her to ultimately decide what she wants out of life.


 Rather than assume, why not just ask her what her intentions are with regard to staying in contact with the other man? Asking her where she stands is not forcing anything; questions are a just normal part of a married couples communications. Do this right now if you dare.



Trying2figureitout said:


> All I can do is control me and offer advice.


 No you have other options. Reading this passive acceptance of you allowing your wife to cheat with another man is very sad. You need to know that you matter. That your needs are important too. That you have a right and duty to take action to protect your marraige from another man and to end the marraige if your wife has lost all respect for you and your marraige.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Life is choices.... she has hers to make.


 And you have chosen to look the other way as another man has cheated with your wife for three years and continues to cheat with her.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> It was her saying "If you want i'll spread my legs" not exactly romantic. LOL.
> 
> No Thanks. I'll hang.


You could have told her you prefer her to go no all fours...

You could have told her "if that's the extent of the love you have for me, then fvck you, I'm outta here"...

You could have told her "if that's how much you think about me, then wait up while I get you a $20 and then let's get it on"...

You could have done a lot of things to get her attention aside from the "no honey, I'll gladly wait until you truly want me again"...

Based on the way she said that to you about spreading her legs, I'm convinced that she has been physically involved with this OM. IDK, I think her libido is better than you think...


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
By refusing sex with you for 3 years while carrying on intensely with another man and refusing to end it she has broken trust and her vows blatantly. 

A workout buddy - remember when I said it was strange she was going to work out for 2 hours every day and would not even let you sit on the couch next to her because she had a back problem. 

They worked out all right. And all along you were afraid to stop an affair she rubbed your nose in? 20 to 40 texts per day - a hot workout buddy she saw daily at the gym.


----------



## MEM2020

You are so right. You should not force her to end the affair. She might be angry at you. 

And you have let her claim this is about her resentments while the whole time it has been that she is pa with her gym buddy. Ok then.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I agree on her libido she has a normal one.... 

The real hang-up so to speak is shes trying to feel sexual attraction again to me... she even said so in not so many words.

She said she has actually felt it but then something happens usually me complaining about no sex then she has to build up again.

She wants us to work it out... the OM was in the way of her putting all her thoughts into it... also our together time is limited.

It'll happen pretty assuredly but it'll take some time. She is actually trying I can see it. Shes been fine with further and further physical contact. So its coming.

Its hard to re-build a spark especially when there is a significant conflict so it takes time.

For me like I said its now resolved and i'm in a great state of mind that'll help her. We will have a sex life again and be better for going though this.


----------



## Acabado

Man, the ongoing contact is simply intolerable.
Choose self respect, man. Over everything.

This anticipating the sex your would provide from now on... good Lord. She's still cheating on you!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> By refusing sex with you for 3 years while carrying on intensely with another man and refusing to end it she has broken trust and her vows blatantly.
> 
> A workout buddy - remember when I said it was strange she was going to work out for 2 hours every day and would not even let you sit on the couch next to her because she had a back problem.
> 
> They worked out all right. And all along you were afraid to stop an affair she rubbed your nose in? 20 to 40 texts per day - a hot workout buddy she saw daily at the gym.


Mem,

You nor I know the intensity of the affair... it "could" have been mostly innocent talk. Just a lot of it. My wife texts lots of people shes needy that way.

Also we had some sex in those three years...just not much.

The workouts are for her legs she has vein issues and she gains self-esteem from it. It was not just him she would workout in a group including him he no longer goes to that gym... all my neighbors go to the gym so she couldn't do much without it getting back to me.

The 20-40 texts is concerning as it shows her being distracted.

I'm sure there were some "inappropriate" messages exchanged at some point and there was a sexual tension there no doubt... she likely though never acted on it and saw it as playful or something. It was wrong and an affair by definition.... he was meeting a need in her... its addictive.

It ending will help. Also be safer because she would text him while driving.

She has told me she relates to guys more than girls so the OM was one of the guys she sought for friendship. It just went too far and affected our life.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Acabado said:


> Man, the ongoing contact is simply intolerable.
> Choose self respect, man. Over everything.
> 
> This anticipating the sex your would provide from now on... good Lord. She's still cheating on you!


What ongoing contact as far as I can tell she ended it.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> *I agree on her libido she has a normal one....
> *


Think this through for a minute. You acknowledge that she has a normal libido, yet she allegedly has not had sex in over 3 years. So...what has she been doing to satisfy her urges? If she has a normal libido, do you think she did not have any orgasms for over 3 years?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Think this through for a minute. You acknowledge that she has a normal libido, yet she allegedly has not had sex in over 3 years. So...what has she been doing to satisfy her urges? If she has a normal libido, do you think she did not have any orgasms for over 3 years?


I have no idea.. like I said we had some sex she had some o's... she was also injured for six months.

I don't know. I masturbated not sure about her. I think for her its more emotional than anything she may not "need" sex. She just likes having fun mainly. You can have a normal libido and not have sex.

Its not hormones
Its not abuse
Its not libido
Its not lesbianism


Its relational. Shes picky about needing to feel it.... shes not like some women who just do it anyhow.

I'll bet a dollar she felt safe with the guy because of no sex.... with me there is always that expectation.
She wasn't ready yet. What is so hard to understand?

She wants to feel like having sex again with me. Plus she gets super tired at night from waking up at 4am everyday for work. So its also a tired issue.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> The real hang-up so to speak is shes trying to feel sexual attraction again to me... she even said so in not so many words.


 Wow "she even said so in not so many words" is just like your stating in another post that "I'm under the assumption everything is resolved and putting myself in that state of mind". Instead of asking her, you are again just assuming what you want to believe is true. I guess with her really only communicating with the other man and not you, you have have to guess what she is thinking and doing. I bet you the other man knows because she told him.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Wow "she even said so in not so many words" is just like your stating in another post that "I'm under the assumption everything is resolved and putting myself in that state of mind". Instead of asking her, you are again just assuming what you want to believe is true. I guess with her really only communicating with the other man and not you, you have have to guess what she is thinking and doing. I bet you the other man knows because she told him.


Words mean nothing action does. I don't need to ask her.


----------



## pidge70

Trying2figureitout said:


> I have no idea.. like I said we had some sex she had some o's... she was also injured for six months.
> 
> I don't know. I masturbated not sure about her. I think for her its more emotional than anything she may not "need" sex. She just likes having fun mainly. You can have a normal libido and not have sex.
> 
> Its not hormones
> Its not abuse
> Its not libido
> Its not lesbianism
> 
> 
> Its relational. Shes picky about needing to feel it.... shes not like some women who just do it anyhow.
> 
> I'll bet a dollar she felt safe with the guy because of no sex.... with me there is always that expectation.
> She wasn't ready yet. What is so hard to understand?
> 
> She wants to feel like having sex again with me. Plus she gets super tired at night from waking up at 4am everyday for work. So its also a tired issue.


I get up at 4am Mon-Fri. Our sex life is just fine. I also had brain surgery in June and we had sex like a week after. 

How old is your W?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jfv

wow. good luck.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

pidge70 said:


> I get up at 4am Mon-Fri. Our sex life is just fine. I also had brain surgery in June and we had sex like a week after.
> 
> How old is your W?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Over 45

Congrats on you good sex life.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

jfv said:


> wow. good luck.


Thanks


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Over 45
> 
> Congrats on you good sex life.


Dude, the point Pidge was making is that YOU ARE MAKING EXCUSES for the lack of sex! You say she has a normal libido... if she has a normal libido, i guarantee THAT need was being met SOMEWHERE...whether by masturbation or sex with the OM, I can't say for sure...but she WAS getting that need met somewhere.

You said you'd bet a dollar? Really? Only a dollar? If you were THAT sure, I'd think you'd bet more. Fact is, you DON'T know...and sadly, you never will because you refuse to ASK HER about any of it. You prefer to keep your head buried in the sand. The only way things will TRULY get resolved is if you get your head out of the sand and take REAL action, instead of sitting back and watching her cheat. But hey, good luck with that...you're gonna need it.


----------



## pidge70

Trying2figureitout said:


> Over 45
> 
> Congrats on you good sex life.


I wasn't bragging about my sex life. I was trying to point out some flawed thinking on your part. I am almost 43 so your W isn't that much older than I am. Her "reasoning" for not having sex is just excuses. I am up from 4am-11pm five days a week and I have to deal with an ADHD 12yr old and a 3yr old. I MAKE time to connect with my H. Why doesn't your W make time for you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Words mean nothing action does.


 That is exactly what everyone has been trying to tell you, but so far you have not taken any action.



Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't need to ask her.


 Yes you do if you want to know the truth. Open communications is a given in any true reconciliation. You are afraid to ask because if she tells you the truth, you will run out of excuses not to act. Other than fear, name one good reason not to ask?


----------



## vi_bride04

This thread makes me want to slam my head into a brick wall....

OP, I'm sorry you can't find enough self respect to at least TRY to listen to some of the more experienced posters here. Everything that you are being told is spot on. Human behavior is human behavior and your W is no exception to that rule.

Good luck. I'm sorry you don't value yourself enough to want more out of your marriage and your wife. You deserve it.


----------



## OldWolf57

T2, I'm sorry everyone is riding you.
Also I see you did do some reading.
So please get Not Just Friends and No more Mr. Nice Guy.

To Posters, plz, just accept by now he's doing it his way.
from reading this thread, you all know he has other threads, by now he knows your thinking.
Him and carlton, just has to do it their way.

Good luck T2.


----------



## daisygirl 41

I'm sorry to come into this late, hope you don't mind, but just from a woman's point of view, I think your wife has no sexual desire for you because she has no respect for you. You have allowed her to have an A for over 3 years, your niceness turns her off! I'd bet my house on it. She wants you to be a man, she's been shagging a bloke at the gym for 3 years, do you think he's as 'nice' as you? He'll no! He hot n sweaty and makes her feel desired! She will never feel the sexual desire for you that you want if you don't start being more of a man!! 
Come on mate, think about it, no woman feels sexual desire for a doormat!! 

I'm not saying all this to be mean, I want your marriage to heal and be fulfilling, but she doesn't want mr nice guy, that's why she doesn't desire you, she wants a man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## daisygirl 41

Trying2figureitout said:


> I have no idea.. like I said we had some sex she had some o's... she was also injured for six months.
> 
> I don't know. I masturbated not sure about her. I think for her its more emotional than anything she may not "need" sex. She just likes having fun mainly. You can have a normal libido and not have sex.
> 
> Its not hormones
> Its not abuse
> Its not libido
> Its not lesbianism
> 
> 
> Its relational. Shes picky about needing to feel it.... shes not like some women who just do it anyhow.
> 
> I'll bet a dollar she felt safe with the guy because of no sex.... with me there is always that expectation.
> She wasn't ready yet. What is so hard to understand?
> 
> She wants to feel like having sex again with me. Plus she gets super tired at night from waking up at 4am everyday for work. So its also a tired issue.


OMG you're kidding me right????
She's been having sex with another man.
She doesn't want 'safe' and 'nice' and 'mush' . 
She wants fun and excitement and flirting!
What do you think they were txtin about all that time eh? Recipes and the state of the economy???

I think I'm gonna have to leave this thread. I'm so frustrated!
I'm sorry mate, your wife has completely blindsided you. She is completely taken advantage of your nice nature and your sex life will never improve until you tell her you know what she's been doing and you won't put up with it any longer!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

This is you OP.

OP, you are on TAM for quite a while. Have you ever seen a thread where everyone was telling you that you are doing it wrong. Most threads have more than a few opinions. But everyone is telling you the same thing and that you are in denial. Give some thought to it. Maybe there is some truth to it.


Your wife did not have sex with your for 3 years. The same 3 years that she was not having sex with you. The same 3 years she was heavily involved with a "work buddy" from gym. The same 3 years she texted him 10,000 times.. And the whole scenario is ridiculously cliched..

She won't stop texting him. How do you know it wasn't a PA? You don't but you think it isn't. Do you know the extent of the A ? You don't. You won't check. You won't verify. You won't snoop. That too on a person who deceived you for 3 years. You won't check if they took it underground. But you think the whole thing will solve by itself. 

Let me tell you something. Your wife is not you. Just because you won't cheat doesn't mean you will hold herself to the same standards. Every person has a different set of morals..You wife may not have yours...

But you won't listen. I will just hope that your wife becomes careless enough and outs herself. Or gets caught red handed in the bed with the OM. That might be the only scenario that will snap you out of your denial.


Have you talked to your friends about it ? Do you see atleast one agreeing to what you are doing ?


----------



## warlock07

Hey T2, if you wife is indeed having sex with the OM ad continuing the affair underground, how do you expect to find it out ?

Your wife confessing it to you ?

Snooping is not wrong in the right circumstances...How many spouse are here after snooping based on their gut feelings ? If she is cheater, she already made the decision to hide it from you... You won't find it until you search for it. Read the stories in the same forum. Your wife is not a special snow flake. In fact the signs point out that this is more than a harmless EA(unless you have evidence otherwise)


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

warlock07 said:


> Hey T2, if you wife is indeed having sex with the OM ad continuing the affair underground, how do you expect to find it out ?
> 
> Your wife confessing it to you ?
> 
> Snooping is not wrong in the right circumstances...How many spouse are here after snooping based on their gut feelings ? If she is cheater, she already made the decision to hide it from you... You won't find it until you search for it. Read the stories in the same forum. Your wife is not a special snow flake. In fact the signs point out that this is more than a harmless EA(unless you have evidence otherwise)


Don't bother, even if he walked into the room to see her with his own eyes riding another man's penor, he's find some way to rationalize or naysay what he'd just seen.

I remember another thread in which a man opened the door of a pickup truck his wife was in with another man, to be confronted with her naked rear end sitting on the OM's naked body, whilst they were writhing away.

IIRC, she claimed that "no penetration had taken place yet" despite what he'd seen with his own eyes, and that was good enough for him.

LOL! Natural selection in action....


----------



## Maricha75

OldWolf57 said:


> T2, I'm sorry everyone is riding you.
> Also I see you did do some reading.
> So please get Not Just Friends and No more Mr. Nice Guy.
> 
> To Posters, plz, just accept by now he's doing it his way.
> from reading this thread, you all know he has other threads, by now he knows your thinking.
> Him and carlton, just has to do it their way.
> 
> Good luck T2.


Yes, but like any other train wreck.... just can't turn away.

The biggest problem I am seeing here is his complacency. He swore that he put his foot down, that it's not going to continue. And yet, now he's saying "we'll see". WTF?!?! He's backing down because he's scared, plain and simple. He's scared that if he REALLY does something, if he REALLY puts his foot down, she will walk away. And she probably will. Really, what incentive is there to stay?

If I were the kind of person who were to bet on this kind of thing, I'd be betting that she HAS taken it underground. She either has an app on her phone or a burner phone. She's still in contact with him...as stated by T2, because they have business dealings. As long as this is still in play, it's not over. And it won't be over until T2 REALLY puts his foot down.

He has been told, over and over and over again, that you can't nice her out of it. I even told him about my husband and the fact that he wasn't able to get me out of it by doing the things T2 has tried. He had to pull, drag, and SHOCK me out of it.... He went off on me then. And, I think it was pointed out that the anger he directed toward me would be better served toward HIS WIFE. And that was when he revealed that the anger IS toward his wife, as well as any other woman who feels it's ok to cheat. So, he knows what to do... he's just too damn scared to do it!

Whatever, Mr. Ostrich can bury his head if he wishes. It's his life. If he doesn't mind letting the affair continue underground, not my problem. He knows what to do, now it's up to him to step up and actually do something.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't need proof that would serve no purpose so far shes held to her word of texting him less in fact zero, in fact I'm under the assumption everything is resolved and putting myself in that state of mind. See I don't believe in forcing someone to do anything its up to her to ultimately decide what she wants out of life.
> 
> All I can do is control me and offer advice. My wife will figure out that she has failed me and will correct that. She is already doing that in fact has been for a while.
> 
> Sexless marriages do not turn on a dime. Most that resolve do so in years 3 or 4.... so i'm on track for that.
> 
> Again I have to live with her the rest of my life so whatever we manage will be organic improvement.... the walls in her heart are gone now its just the final re-connecting.
> 
> Her not texting the OM cold turkey is a pretty big step and she did that without me stating she had too.... I told her she could keep him as a friend if it was that important to her.... I think she finally understood he really wasn't a friend but a* threat to her marriage and was hurting our family*
> Right here is where you went horribly wrong, you see this guy as a threat,an intruder breaking into your marriage and YOU do nothing to stop him, you've basically told your wife, hey its ok and you handle the intruder, the intruder she invited into your house of marriage...YOU T2, need to make him go away, youre wife maybe waiting for you to step and be the man, lay down the damn law and show her and anyone else, this is MY EFFEN house and intruders will be dealt with quickly and severely
> 
> 
> Life is choices.... she has hers to make. Time will tell.
> I'm pretty lucky and things usually work out for me.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

pidge70 said:


> I wasn't bragging about my sex life. I was trying to point out some flawed thinking on your part. I am almost 43 so your W isn't that much older than I am. Her "reasoning" for not having sex is just excuses. I am up from 4am-11pm five days a week and I have to deal with an ADHD 12yr old and a 3yr old. I MAKE time to connect with my H. Why doesn't your W make time for you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know... shes got a different background than you. Perhaps she has a skewed view of sex an its importance. She is very active and very social so I'm pretty sure she gets her 'needs" met through that. I 've made a big deal out of sex and she is who takes well to being told shes wrong or not normal.. the OM was taking up too much of her thoughts that resolving our sex life was on the back burner. She probably felt safe I had to shake that up and change her view, she is responding overall she is texting much less and not at all to him. 

We are working together on the importance of sex in our marriage.... it literally for her is a challenge due to her getting exhausted by the end of the day... and this s not just when I'm there. She turns off a switch at about 6:30 each night and is ready for bed... shes a morning person. She use to fall asleep at her own slumber parties growing up leaving her parents entertaining friends.

No marriage is perfect, I'm lucky that sex is really the only issue now that she is letting the OM relationship die. I'm fine because I know I'm closer to the solution everyday.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I've done nothing? To stop him?

Your wrong multipletimes I brought it up, printed out proof and texted him, talked to her several times about it. Threatened to expose it.

In the end she had to end it.

I can't force my wife to do anything she had to decide he was not worth the risk.


----------



## Hicks

Your wife will not be sexually attracted to you.

This is becuase you act in a very unattractive fashion.

Even all these posters are repelled by the way you are acting.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

OldWolf57 said:


> T2, I'm sorry everyone is riding you.
> Also I see you did do some reading.
> So please get Not Just Friends and No more Mr. Nice Guy.
> 
> To Posters, plz, just accept by now he's doing it his way.
> from reading this thread, you all know he has other threads, by now he knows your thinking.
> Him and carlton, just has to do it their way.
> 
> Good luck T2.


Thanks you are right I'll do it my way. i do listen to all the other advice. 

The issue is you try to pencil my wife as a typical wife. With typical wife behaviors... shes anything but.

I too would believe from afar shes been banging a guy... but I live with her and know her. She wouldn't risk it. She did foster too close of an emotional connection though with the other guy and realizes her texting/FB addiction.

Some people just don't need sex as much. Our timing is off because of her getting tired always at night (only time we have sex). Only way she stays up later like a "normal" wife is using energy drinks or 5-hour energy.

So its a challenge in day to day life.. something she needs to figure out.
Our worklifes are way different too not many nights to work on things.

Sex is not on her list after she shutsdown and readies for bed. Shes done.

This is something her and I need to figure out.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Hicks said:


> Your wife will not be sexually attracted to you.
> 
> This is becuase you act in a very unattractive fashion.
> 
> Even all these posters are repelled by the way you are acting.


The advice when women are in EAs is to expose and then let then come back to you. Work on yourself.

You can't chase, you can't change their mind ONLY THEY CAN.

Shes in that process. She does respect me much more I can tell in the way she actually listens and responds when we talk... we've communicated a lot lately. Respect leads to her feeling more sexual. I do not act nice all the time anymore.. shes seen my tolerance being tested and shes gotten very angry at me which is great. She understands fully our situation needs resolved.

Give her a chance... geez she just cut off communication with the OM going take some more time for her to grieve that and then heal.

Most of our relational work is accomplished already... this was a must in the process.

We will restart our sexlife one day. Sooner rather than later.

I gave her an opportunity to handle it her way without me stepping in... I will step in if I have to. I will keep apprised of everything and react when needed. This is not just complacency it planned backing off and giving some space for her to grieve and heal.

She just lost a major source of texting.... she addicted. Its like a drug addict going through withdrawals. Also she knows she broke my trust and risked her marriage... that's all pretty heavy stuff. Give her time I am.


----------



## Hicks

You have permitted her to have an affair and a give you a xexless marriage for 3 years and are willing to go for year 4.

There is no way she can get sexual toward a man who permits that.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Hicks said:


> You have permitted her to have an affair and a give you a xexless marriage for 3 years and are willing to go for year 4.
> 
> There is no way she can get sexual toward a man who permits that.



We'll see i think you are wrong. If i believed that i'd be gone already.

All you people seem to think sexless marriages turn on a dime!

They don't.

In reality its breaking down the wall she put up.... the wall is crumbling now.
Its a process done over time.

Actually "letting' the affair roll on helps me. It gave me time to fix everything else and have her come back to me.... she just had her mind split.

Pretty sure she won't chance it again.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> We'll see i think you are wrong. If i believed that i'd be gone already.
> 
> All you people seem to think sexless marriages turn on a dime!
> 
> They don't.
> 
> In reality its breaking down the wall she put up.... the wall is crumbling now.
> Its a process done over time.
> 
> Actually "letting' the affair roll on helps me. It gave me time to fix everything else and have her come back to me.... she just had her mind split.
> 
> Pretty sure she won't chance it again.


Its not just a sexless marriage...

Its a marriage where the wife is having an affair and doesn't want to have sex with her husband.

The only one not having sex in this 3 person marriage is you.


----------



## Ovid

You know. I think OP is onto something.

The A will work itself out. I see three ways this can play out:

Option 1:
The WW will get dumped by OM, and have to pretend to be good until she starts a new A, but she'll be much better at hiding it them, so as long as OP agrees to keep his eyes shut he can pretend the children are his even though hes not getting any.

Option 2:
WW and OM will finally agree to take their relationship to the next level and WW will move in with OM and OP will get his resolution.

Option 3:
OPs fairy godmother will sprinkle magic fairy dust on WW and she will turn into perfect faithful loving wife...


----------



## MarriedTex

Trying2figureitout said:


> We are working together on the importance of sex in our marriage.... it literally for her is a challenge due to her getting exhausted by the end of the day... and this s not just when I'm there. She turns off a switch at about 6:30 each night and is ready for bed... shes a morning person. She use to fall asleep at her own slumber parties growing up leaving her parents entertaining friends.
> 
> .


I dunno. Sounds like another excuse/rationalization to me. 

If I hadn't had sex in three years, you'd be darn sure I'd be setting the alarm clock, getting up when the wife gets up and getting busy before getting to work - if you know what I mean.


----------



## TCSRedhead

MarriedTex said:


> I dunno. Sounds like another excuse/rationalization to me.
> 
> If I hadn't had sex in three years, you'd be darn sure I'd be setting the alarm clock, getting up when the wife gets up and getting busy before getting to work - if you know what I mean.


That's kinda what I'm thinking. For context, I'm 40 years old and have a 4 month old baby. I get up and am normally at the gym by 5 - 5:30 a.m. I normally don't get home until 5 - 6 p.m. Add to that making dinner, taking care of the baby and getting stuff ready for the next day and I AM exhausted but never too exhausted to make time for my marriage.

If I was crashing out at night and not making an effort or time to have sex with my husband, I can guarantee he'd be waking up early!

I just don't understand the lack of any sex/intimacy with your husband, but making all this effort to text another man. I have a hard time believing it will turn itself around without high accountability and verification from the husband. I wish him well but seeing this play out day after day here - I'm cynical.


----------



## Hicks

Trying2figureitout said:


> All you people seem to think sexless marriages turn on a dime!
> 
> They don't.
> .


Of course they turn on a dime.
As soon as you start acting attractively, people will be attracted to you. Including your wife.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I've done nothing? To stop him?
> 
> Your wrong multipletimes I brought it up, printed out proof and texted him, talked to her several times about it.


 If you read what you just said above, you will see that you have just confirmed that that you are all talk and no action. Also, each time that you talk to the other man (OM) about him and your wife, you are giving him a big ego boost, because you are confirming to him that your wife is picking him over you, and that she is ignoring your requests to stop the affair. You are telling him that you know that he and not you is in control. Like a bully kicking sand in the face of a weak man in front of the weak man's wife, some alpha types really get off on that.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Threatened to expose it.


 Did you expose it even to the other man's girlfriend? Nope. All talk but no action.



Trying2figureitout said:


> In the end she had to end it.
> 
> I can't force my wife to do anything she had to decide he was not worth the risk.


 Why would she have to end it? What risk? After 3 years of doing it in the open, she has just now has taken it underground. Fearing that their spouses will take real action, most cheaters feel the need to take it underground much sooner; the fact that your wife did not feel the need to take it underground until now is telling. With her telling you to your face that she will not give him up, amazingly you claim victory when she tells you she will cheat less with the other man. BTW, you have not answered my questions as to give one good reason not to ask you wife directly if she has ended it.


----------



## warlock07

So you absolutely think she isn't having a sexual affair because she sleeps early at night ?(no sarcasm intended)

Does she work ?


----------



## strugglinghusband

T2, if you think your plan is working, then I guess its working..
who am I to say otherwise....
Just like I've typed this in black, but if you see it in red, well then its in red, because thats what you want to see and no one can convince you otherwise.

Best of luck to you and I mean that sincerly......


----------



## Trying2figureitout

strugglinghusband said:


> T2, if you think your plan is working, then I guess its working..
> who am I to say otherwise....
> Just like I've typed this in black, but if you see it in red, well then its in red, because thats what you want to see and no one can convince you otherwise.
> 
> Best of luck to you and I mean that sincerly......


Thanks,

I believe its working, our marriage is actually very strong and we can actually communicate now. She and I respect each other. We are laughing together and having fun.

All I know is shes doing all the right things, shes controlling her texting to pretty much work/family working on her own on her self admitted texting addiction. I did not tell her to stop texting and I said she could keep him as a friend. this is her doing something. She is also declining events she would normally go to from friends to spend more time at home.


You know there has to be a light bulb moment for things to switch I firmly believe she had hers after sitting her down with A or B and following it up with the signs of an EA letter . seems to me she finally looked in the mirror and made her own changes to work on our relationship. Her doing anything is huge.... this is really amazing for me to see. She had to change herself. Seriously all texting is about 30% of what it was for ever since I've known her. That I believe proves no burner phone... its an overall less texting effect. She really dropped it cold-turkey she likely sees texting/distraction as an issue that she could control herself. I'm now her primary texting contact like it should be.

Only texts I ever questioned were to the gym guy. I had no problem with all the others, I don't curtail her social outreach or communicating with other friends, who I know something about. I can't control her...I knew that when I married her.

That is great as she came up with what to do all by herself.

My plan to turn around a sexual marriage into a sexual one will work just a matter of time. I firmly believe that... I don't think I'm an ostrich.

I will share what works after I succeed fully.


----------



## Ovid

still texting the other guy is not doing all the right things, but you have proven you will not see anything you don't want to. 
When you finally take those rose colored glasses off take them off slowly, so you are not hit with how bad it is all at once. 

I will not waste any more time posting things you refuse to see.

Good luck to you. I hope magic happens and this all actually does work out well.


----------



## justbidingtime

You've finally moved your posts to CWI. The Men's and Women's Clubhouse grew tired, Sex is no where near so cant post there and now you've finally admitted an EA, which was intimated a # of times.

Must admit you've mellowed, but not sure that is a good thing. 

Now you have some new posters who don't know "The rest of the story"....... 

We always heard of her gym exploits and now excuses she relates better to males. However she has GNO so finding a female workout buddy shouldn't be terribly hard and is just another excuse. 

Sad and scary that she may just be into a certain body type that you are not. That is why gyms can be such a seductive place especially for an attractive woman who wants to be and will be ogled. That is why there are women's only gyms and rooms, because men are pigs and looking all the time. Many women and men use the gym to hook up and that 1 hour workout turns into 2 hours, with the other hour being trolling and hooking up.....

If she has even the slightest sexual desire, then she's been sleeping with this guy. If she doesn't then congratulations you have her back and will have a sexless marriage.....


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Only texts I ever questioned were to the gym guy. I had no problem with all the others, I don't curtail her social outreach or communicating with other friends, who I know something about. I can't control her...I knew that when I married her.


Well, no. You can't control her. You can't control anyone. However, that doesn't mean you have to allow her to walk all over you either. Also, as much as you don't want to curtail her social outreach, at this point, that is EXACTLY what you should be doing. Not just the OM (who should be completely removed from all aspects of her life...all forms of communication), but any of her enabling friends as well. Any who knew about the sh!t she was pulling, and helped her to do it, needs to go.



Trying2figureitout said:


> My plan to turn around a sexual marriage into a sexual one will work just a matter of time. I firmly believe that... I don't think I'm an ostrich.


T2, ostrich is a nice term. You don't want to hear my dad's words on the subject.



Trying2figureitout said:


> I will share what works after I succeed fully.


And we wait, with bated breath... or is that what you're doing right now? :scratchhead:


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Ovid said:


> still texting the other guy is not doing all the right things, but you have proven you will not see anything you don't want to.
> When you finally take those rose colored glasses off take them off slowly, so you are not hit with how bad it is all at once.
> 
> I will not waste any more time posting things you refuse to see.
> 
> Good luck to you. I hope magic happens and this all actually does work out well.


They have not texted since two days ago after 20-40 per day before. Seems she stopped.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> You've finally moved your posts to CWI. The Men's and Women's Clubhouse grew tired, Sex is no where near so cant post there and now you've finally admitted an EA, which was intimated a # of times.
> 
> Must admit you've mellowed, but not sure that is a good thing.
> 
> Now you have some new posters who don't know "The rest of the story".......
> 
> We always heard of her gym exploits and now excuses she relates better to males. However she has GNO so finding a female workout buddy shouldn't be terribly hard and is just another excuse.
> 
> Sad and scary that she may just be into a certain body type that you are not. That is why gyms can be such a seductive place especially for an attractive woman who wants to be and will be ogled. That is why there are women's only gyms and rooms, because men are pigs and looking all the time. Many women and men use the gym to hook up and that 1 hour workout turns into 2 hours, with the other hour being trolling and hooking up.....
> 
> If she has even the slightest sexual desire, then she's been sleeping with this guy. If she doesn't then congratulations you have her back and will have a sexless marriage.....


Perhaps I have not ruled out a PA occurred... if so she lied to me. Which is possible... she seems pretty adamant it was just talking/texting. She stated she did not have feelings for him... which I question based on her reluctance to give him up.

Problem is you never know unless they admit it. I'm certain of an EA by definition not certain of a PA although its still a possibility. Keep in mind we had a low sex marriage all along... don't think sex is high on her list of needs. She does say she enjoys it though.... so who knows?

But agin there was something there you don't text that much daily without there being something and neither of them wanted it to stop obviously.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> They have not texted since two days ago after 20-40 per day before. Seems she stopped.


Who really cares?????? Until she starts sleeping with you, is enthusiastic about it and you have a "REAL WHOLE" marriage again, it really is pretty empty imo and she will just find someone else or more excuses.


----------



## Rob774

Whew... 10 pages in, finally caught up. I, like others on here are not without our own relationship issues. But what alot of us on here will agree to is... if our significant others, would have done what yours did, coupled with the fact that you haven't slept together in 3 years... the majority of us would be handling this a lot more "hand's on" then you are. 

U've busted her indeed, but didn't lay down strict laws. Like no contact, NO CONTACT means ZERO. She would have to offer up to me all communications, all logins/passwords to accounts, everything, and even still i'd place a VAR in her car. Its almost like... you busted her, and thought "i've won the war now... i can relax!" My man, it sounds like you just came to a draw...in a minor skirmish. You seem hesitant to lay the hammer down, because you are too nice, or fear her response. Let the folks on here tell you, cheaters have NO leg to stand on when they are the ones busted. She has to abide by your rules, if your marriage is to work. 

So what you didn't like the way she present sex to you, after 3 years, i would of taken it anyway i could. What did you think you accomplished by saying no? Life is too short, and you will not be young forever. Why live life without sex? I'd draw up all these rules for her, and failure to fully comply or any violation of said rules and i'm out the door. She can have her boy toy, and texting friends, i'm out! And be sleeping with somebody by the end of the week.

I feel for you, others do to. But you have to do more here, or else the change will be so moderate, the simplest of crumbs by her will seem like a mouthful to you. You are better than this!!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> Who really cares?????? Until she starts sleeping with you, is enthusiastic and you have a "REAL" marriage again, it really is pretty empty imo and she will just find someone else or more excuses.


You may be right... but I get a sense she is really trying to get back to a sexual marriage. 

Its hard to just turn it on again. Most of you are discounting that she just needs to feel something before we have sex.

Shes not the only woman who needs that to have sex. Shes pretty busy so i doubt she spends much time trying to figure it out or seek help. In fact she even said she hasn't done anything other than try to feel connected again.

Not all women need sex and cheat to get it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Lets get one thing straight... her and I have had sex 9 times in the last three years... not much but something.

It has been 11 months but some of that was injury and some me expecting connected sex.
So its not like I've been totally sexless with her since ILYNILWY three years ago.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> Perhaps I have not ruled out a PA occurred... if so she lied to me. Which is possible... she seems pretty adamant it was just talking/texting. She stated she did not have feelings for him... which I question based on her reluctance to give him up.
> 
> I just cant help but jump back in, its like a train wreck, sorry but I want to ride this SOB to the end and hopefully its a good ending for you...T2 read the cheaters script here on TAM, the if she lied part, I'm not saying she did, but thats what they do when they are in the affair fog
> 
> My wife had herself a E/A, same deal, "were just close friends its not what you think etc" all right from the script ...guess what she lied right up to where she couldnt any more, even after I knew and didnt confront, she knew I was onto her but she kept it up anyhow and she kept lying, until I had it 100% in her face.
> like you I would have never ever in a million years would have believed she could do it, no one that knows her would believe it either...
> Just like you I tried to nice her out of it, it dosent work, you have to take a stand and man up, its the only way.
> I know you think your wife is different and that your situation is also, I did too, again guess what, it was all right in front of my face in print here on TAM
> 
> Problem is you never know unless they admit it. I'm certain of an EA by definition not certain of a PA although its still a possibility. Keep in mind we had a low sex marriage all along... don't think sex is high on her list of needs. She does say she enjoys it though.... so who knows?
> 
> But agin there was something there you don't text that much daily without there being something and neither of them wanted it to stop obviously.


Exactly there was something there alright and more than likly still is, YOU have to get rid of him, out of your marriage and if that means your wife gets tossed out with him, then so be it.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Trying2figureitout said:


> You may be right... but I get a sense she is really trying to get back to a sexual marriage.
> 
> Its hard to just turn it on again. Most of you are discounting that she just needs to feel something before we have sex.
> 
> Shes not the only woman who needs that to have sex. Shes pretty busy so i doubt she spends much time trying to figure it out or seek help. In fact she even said she hasn't done anything other than try to feel connected again.
> 
> Not all women need sex and cheat to get it.


Lord help me, I said I was done with this but you keep throwing things out there so here goes...

'She's pretty busy' = Your marriage isn't a priority. What is she doing to make this change?

'She just needs to feel something before we have sex' = She doesn't love you or feel attracted to you. What is causing that and what is being done to actively change that?

'She hasn't done anything other than try to feel connected again.' = What does that even mean? What are you two doing to make that actually happen? 

Deep seated problems like this cannot be fixed passively. By taking charge and telling her what to do and enforcing it, it also starts putting you back in the role of man and husband in your marriage and a heck of a lot more attractive than a doormat. 

:soapbox:


----------



## MrK

9 times in three years is sexless. My wife hates my f'ing GUTS and she'll blow me 9 times a week if I asked (It's easier to suck me off than talk to me, evidently).

If she wanted it to work, she'd make it work.

11 pages and I just kept wanting to say "back-off everyone". Yet when I finally respond, I just pile on. What is it with this guy?


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> Lets get one thing straight... her and I have had sex 9 times in the last three years... not much but something.
> 
> It has been 11 months but some of that was injury and some me expecting connected sex.
> So its not like I've been totally sexless with her since ILYNILWY three years ago.


3 times a year and none in the last 11 months NONE??? what is your idea of sexless?

Geez, I know dead people that get more than that...


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> You may be right... but I get a sense she is really trying to get back to a sexual marriage.


Where's the proof? 



Trying2figureitout said:


> Its hard to just turn it on again. Most of you are discounting that she just needs to feel something before we have sex.


No, we're not. I need to feel something before having sex... but here's the difference: I MAKE THE EFFORT TO ACTUALLY CONNECT WITH MY HUSBAND!



Trying2figureitout said:


> Shes not the only woman who needs that to have sex. Shes pretty busy so i doubt she spends much time trying to figure it out or seek help. In fact she even said she hasn't done anything other than try to feel connected again.


Busy is an excuse, as so many others have pointed out. Plenty of busy people make time for sex, or at the very least they make time for their spouses... THEY DON'T HAVE GNO/BNO in lieu of time with the spouse. WTF does "she hasn't done anything other than try to feel connected again" mean?!?! Seriously, the only way to FEEL connected is to put forth the EFFORT to BE connected! Good GOD!



Trying2figureitout said:


> Not all women need sex and cheat to get it.


Nope, those who don't want the rep of physically cheating choose to masturbate, or if they already were masturbating, they do it more... just to keep from having sex with a man they don't want. Masturbation in and of itself is not bad... but when it cuts into the sex life of the couple, it IS a problem. You said she has a normal libido. Normal libido means she wants sex. If she's not getting it from you, she's getting it from somewhere else... You just refuse to see it.


----------



## snap

Trying2figureitout said:


> Lets get one thing straight... her and I have had sex 9 times in the last three years... not much but something.


When you can actually count how much intimacy you had in the last 3 years, it's pretty bad.

T2f, you probably feel like you're attacked here, but it's not the case. Ultimately people here are rooting for you; they feel your pain and they want that fixed. You should really give a chance to collective experience here on this forum, listen to the advice.


----------



## CH

MrK said:


> 9 times in three years is sexless. My wife hates my f'ing GUTS and she'll blow me 9 times a week if I asked (It's easier to suck me off than talk to me, evidently).
> 
> If she wanted it to work, she'd make it work.
> 
> 11 pages and I just kept wanting to say "back-off everyone". Yet when I finally respond, I just pile on. What is it with this guy?


And there I was about to divorce my wife for getting sex once or once every 2 months a couple of years ago. So that's 6-12 times a year. My wife is a nympho!

You must really, really, really love your wife above everything else. Blinded by love.


----------



## OldWolf57

Well to be honest, I WAS'NT pigeon holing her, and the books are useful to you both.
Be that as it may, it seems we have that ONE special woman this forum has never seen. I'll take your word on that.

What I'm seeing is you not trying to get a lil leg in the morning.
Can't you guys arrange to wakeup a lil earlier ??
Especially since she is raring to go at that time.


----------



## MEM2020

Once every 120 days. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> Lets get one thing straight... her and I have had sex 9 times in the last three years... not much but something.
> 
> It has been 11 months but some of that was injury and some me expecting connected sex.
> So its not like I've been totally sexless with her since ILYNILWY three years ago.


----------



## snap

MEM11363 said:


> Once every 120 days.


She's really busy, he says.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

OldWolf57 said:


> Well to be honest, I WAS'NT pigeon holing her, and the books are useful to you both.
> Be that as it may, it seems we have that ONE special woman this forum has never seen. I'll take your word on that.
> 
> What I'm seeing is you not trying to get a lil leg in the morning.
> Can't you guys arrange to wakeup a lil earlier ??
> Especially since she is raring to go at that time.


Of course we could talk about that and just may. She likes to get up and get going though. I've tried before.

I understand the not being a doormat... really do.
In fact I've been in my wifes face just about every week for well over a month... all started with her "You have to be kidding: comment when I reached over (she was tired). After 10 months no one is kidding.

So shes had a variety of talks, emails, letters etc for over a month... that is not being a doormat... its trying to get to the root of the issue.

We will continue discussions until resolved... we both agree its an issue.

As for 120 days... NEWSFLASH I am in a sexless marriage.

I do love my wife... but do fully understand the situation we are in is unacceptable in the long run that is why I'm working the issue.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

snap said:


> When you can actually count how much intimacy you had in the last 3 years, it's pretty bad.
> 
> T2f, you probably feel like you're attacked here, but it's not the case. Ultimately people here are rooting for you; they feel your pain and they want that fixed. You should really give a chance to collective experience here on this forum, listen to the advice.


I know they are... I can handle the criticism.... in the end all I want is to help others in similar situations.

Otherwise they wouldn't be posting. I deserve some of it because I've made bold claims in the past... I know better now.

It'll resolve once it resolves. 

Her ditching the OM was a necessary step. Most of the other work is already done... I've been working on this for three years.

In many ways are marriage is better than ever.

I won't divorce over just sex.. I'll divorce if she doesn't work with me to solve it though.... so far shes showing me shes committed to working on it especially lately. I don't think she could with him taking up her thoughts so much.

I actually have made good progress.... sex is the last thing to return.
I can wait longer for connected sex.

Like I say I'll sacrifice three years for a better sexual marriage for life.

People do give up too early... IMO
I see a sexless marriage as a temporary state especially when both partners love each other.


----------



## MarriedTex

OK, let's accept the premise that your long-term strategy is, indeed, the right way to go.

The way I understand it, she finally gave up OM a month ago. By my calculations, that means you were pretty much ignored and emotionally - if not physically - cuckolded for 35 months. 

Track record would indicate that progress comes very slowly in your household. What would an acceptable timeline for you be. Six months? A year? Another 35 months? before she's ready for enthusiastic sexual relations (with you, that is) ?

You do understand that we're suspicious of the viability of your long-term outlook. That's because your laissez faire approach to managing the relationship did not produce results in three years and - in fact - still has failed to deliver you to the promised land. 

Your faith in your wife and your relationship with her should be commended. Many of this board suspect your faith is misplaced. I hope they're wrong. However, you may want to consider what your options would be if they turn out to be right.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MarriedTex said:


> OK, let's accept the premise that your long-term strategy is, indeed, the right way to go.
> 
> The way I understand it, she finally gave up OM a month ago. By my calculations, that means you were pretty much ignored and emotionally - if not physically - cuckolded for 35 months.
> 
> Track record would indicate that progress comes very slowly in your household. What would an acceptable timeline for you be. Six months? A year? Another 35 months? before she's ready for enthusiastic sexual relations (with you, that is) ?
> 
> You do understand that we're suspicious of the viability of your long-term outlook. That's because your laissez faire approach to managing the relationship did not produce results in three years and - in fact - still has failed to deliver you to the promised land.
> 
> Your faith in your wife and your relationship with her should be commended. Many of this board suspect your faith is misplaced. I hope they're wrong. However, you may want to consider what your options would be if they turn out to be right.


I understand fully... my sexless marriage will not go on forever. I already made a decision if things aren't spiffy by this time next year I'll end it. I base this on the average 3-4 years for turnarounds.... I won't waste more time than 4 years. I'm pretty certain things will be turning around soon probably within weeks or months.

Until then I'll keep up the reconciliation efforts and communication. My wife wants to remain married and has made some changes... we'll keep moving on and see where it leads.

I feel on the correct path. I know many want me to be even harder on her but again I have to live with her and she needs to decide what she wants also. 

I get a sense we are both tired of it and will do what it takes to create a great marriage including sex.

EAs are powerful draws. She is showing that she is willing to change now that she has been made aware it was more than a friendship and he was using her.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Trying2figureitout said:


> I understand fully... my sexless marriage will not go on forever. I already made a decision if things aren't spiffy by next year I'll end it.
> 
> I get a sense we are both tired of it and will do what it takes to create a great marriage including sex.
> 
> EAs are powerful draws. She is showing that she is willing to change now that she has been made aware it was more than a friendship and he was using her.


Next year is about 45 days away - or are you giving her a full year from now?

EA's are NOT powerful draws once you enforce NC and verify that it's followed. The reality hits you pretty damned hard when you realize how badly you've hurt your spouse.

What has she said or done to indicate she's tired of it? Seems she's got a pretty good deal going without having to give anything in return.


----------



## LovesHerMan

You have to be ready to open your eyes. It takes an act of forcing them open even though what you see is blinding. 

Cre8ify


----------



## snap

TCSRedhead said:


> Next year is about 45 days away - or are you giving her a full year from now?


Yes he does.

Honestly, this thread is full of self-inflicted pain.


----------



## Maricha75

snap said:


> Yes he does.
> 
> Honestly, this thread is full of self-inflicted pain.


Yes... yes it is. As was his thread a bit over a month ago, I believe it was... 

He has extended the deadline. My guess is that is because she hasn't shown that she wants HIM...and he keeps pushing back the deadline, hoping she will change her mind.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
She is not tired. Her ENTIRE schedule is one big chastity belt that has been designed with YOU in mind. 

This is including girls nights out, and whatever she does on the weekends. You are funding her little adventures while she has you living like a priest. 




Trying2figureitout said:


> Of course we could talk about that and just may. She likes to get up and get going though. I've tried before.
> 
> I understand the not being a doormat... really do.
> In fact I've been in my wifes face just about every week for well over a month... all started with her "You have to be kidding: comment when I reached over (she was tired). After 10 months no one is kidding.
> 
> So shes had a variety of talks, emails, letters etc for over a month... that is not being a doormat... its trying to get to the root of the issue.
> 
> We will continue discussions until resolved... we both agree its an issue.
> 
> As for 120 days... NEWSFLASH I am in a sexless marriage.
> 
> I do love my wife... but do fully understand the situation we are in is unacceptable in the long run that is why I'm working the issue.


----------



## justbidingtime

I feel more and more sorry for you T2FIO..... this goes on and on and on with no resolution. Like the foot rubs you diligently gave for years, with nothing in return. 

You got the ILYBNILWY speech and claim that you have changed yet she hasn't once acknowledged it with the one thing you want..... Sex..... You have been a cuckold for a while yet ignored those posts from a year ago. You had weekends away where you proclaimed that you had turned the corer and it would change and it did not.

You claim to be a great catch with many women ready to swoon, yet you wait for this heartless B%$ch to come around????

Add to that you never had a robust full sex life to begin with......

Yea she may have sex with you, but it will be only to dangle another carrot and she'll be back at the gym shortly there after.....

This is a fight you can not win.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Yes... yes it is. As was his thread a bit over a month ago, I believe it was...
> 
> He has extended the deadline. My guess is that is because she hasn't shown that she wants HIM...and he keeps pushing back the deadline, hoping she will change her mind.


I have NOT extended the deadline... she has been informed there will not be a year 4. 

That was purposely vague.... I already know the date I am willing to go until. That is set in stone. Yes its about a yer away as I want to give her all year 4 to return. 

She doesn't know that in fact she might not even know exactly when it started all she knows is I'm on the edge and its crunch time. Game over. Shes making changes.

Most sexless marriages turn in between years 3 and 4 if they do.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> I feel more and more sorry for you T2FIO..... this goes on and on and on with no resolution. Like the foot rubs you diligently gave for years, with nothing in return.
> 
> You got the ILYBNILWY speech and claim that you have changed yet she hasn't once acknowledged it with the one thing you want..... Sex..... You have been a cuckold for a while yet ignored those posts from a year ago. You had weekends away where you proclaimed that you had turned the corer and it would change and it did not.
> 
> You claim to be a great catch with many women ready to swoon, yet you wait for this heartless B%$ch to come around????
> 
> Add to that you never had a robust full sex life to begin with......
> 
> Yea she may have sex with you, but it will be only to dangle another carrot and she'll be back at the gym shortly there after.....
> 
> This is a fight you can not win.


I'm not so sure and my wife is not heartless.
What if I succeed... you all seem to discount that likelihood.

I can win and will. This is a fixable issue.
We had sex 9 times after ILYNILWY.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I understand fully... my sexless marriage will not go on forever. I already made a decision if things aren't spiffy by this time next year I'll end it. I base this on the average 3-4 years for turnarounds.... I won't waste more time than 4 years. I'm pretty certain things will be turning around soon probably within weeks or months.


I'm sorry, but based solely on what you have posted here? Yes it will. And that is because you refuse to give her a REAL ultimatum: "get your act together, get your head out of your ass and back into the marriage...or GTFO." You have said before that you would end it if things aren't back on track BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. And yet, here you are, pushing back the deadline.

Where the hell did you get that "3-4 years for turnarounds"? Things would have been turned around already had you not backed down when she started to snow you.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Until then I'll keep up the reconciliation efforts and communication. My wife wants to remain married and has made some changes... we'll keep moving on and see where it leads.


Of course she wants to remain married... why wouldn't she? She's got a nice life, with a man who doesn't ask her questions and lets her to WETF she wants!



Trying2figureitout said:


> I feel on the correct path. I know many want me to be even harder on her but again I have to live with her and she needs to decide what she wants also.


Again, *YES SHE DOES NEED TO DECIDE WHAT SHE WANTS!* The sad thing is that she has SHOWN what she wants... you're just not seeing the qualities she wants in a man. As for being harder on her... there is no evidence, based on what you have posted thus far, where you have been hard on her to begin with!



Trying2figureitout said:


> I get a sense we are both tired of it and will do what it takes to create a great marriage including sex.


The part I agree with at this point is that you are both tired of status quo. But I don't see things changing until you MAKE them change. You have to MAKE the changes occur. Someone in an affair is NOT going to do it all by herself. You have to MAKE her get out of the affair. She isn't going to do it on her own, no matter how much you want her to. Not gonna happen as long as you sit back and think that she SEEMS that she wants to work things out. Not gonna happen until you PUSH her to choose you or leave. No amount of printouts will do that.



Trying2figureitout said:


> EAs are powerful draws. She is showing that she is willing to change now that she has been made aware it was more than a friendship and he was using her.


As for the draw of the EA... it's powerful only as long as it is allowed to happen. As I told you before... my husband had to put his foot down. He couldn't get me out of it by just sitting back and printing up a bunch of articles. I had to choose: him or affair... and there were actual consequences. He didn't set a deadline and move it back... and move it back again... and again... and again... It doesn't work that way. She's not going to snap out of it until you actually DO something!


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I have NOT extended the deadline... she has been informed there will not be a year 4.
> 
> That was purposely vague.... I already know the date I am willing to go until. That is set in stone. Yes its about a yer away as I want to give her all year 4 to return.
> 
> She doesn't know that in fact she might not even know exactly when it started all she knows is I'm on the edge and its crunch time. Game over. Shes making changes.
> 
> Most sexless marriages turn in between years 3 and 4* if they do.*


Those are the key words... IF THEY DO. And yours is sexless because she has been cheating. Doesn't take 3-4 years to get back to sexual when cheating, not from what I have seen. 

And you keep stressing "9 times since ILYBINILWY"... that is STILL sexless. There is STILL no real change.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> I'm sorry, but based solely on what you have posted here? Yes it will. And that is because you refuse to give her a REAL ultimatum: "get your act together, get your head out of your ass and back into the marriage...or GTFO." You have said before that you would end it if things aren't back on track BY THE END OF THIS YEAR. And yet, here you are, pushing back the deadline.
> 
> Where the hell did you get that "3-4 years for turnarounds"? Things would have been turned around already had you not backed down when she started to snow you.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course she wants to remain married... why wouldn't she? She's got a nice life, with a man who doesn't ask her questions and lets her to WETF she wants!
> 
> 
> 
> Again, *YES SHE DOES NEED TO DECIDE WHAT SHE WANTS!* The sad thing is that she has SHOWN what she wants... you're just not seeing the qualities she wants in a man. As for being harder on her... there is no evidence, based on what you have posted thus far, where you have been hard on her to begin with!
> 
> 
> 
> The part I agree with at this point is that you are both tired of status quo. But I don't see things changing until you MAKE them change. You have to MAKE the changes occur. Someone in an affair is NOT going to do it all by herself. You have to MAKE her get out of the affair. She isn't going to do it on her own, no matter how much you want her to. Not gonna happen as long as you sit back and think that she SEEMS that she wants to work things out. Not gonna happen until you PUSH her to choose you or leave. No amount of printouts will do that.
> 
> 
> 
> As for the draw of the EA... it's powerful only as long as it is allowed to happen. As I told you before... my husband had to put his foot down. He couldn't get me out of it by just sitting back and printing up a bunch of articles. I had to choose: him or affair... and there were actual consequences. He didn't set a deadline and move it back... and move it back again... and again... and again... It doesn't work that way. She's not going to snap out of it until you actually DO something!



I've been hard on her i used that exact phase "Get your freakin head out of the sand and look at your marriage falling apart!"

So I haven't been all nicey nice. 

She has an ultimatum choice A or B. She chose a modified A which I allowed after some of her explanations... she seems to be adhering to getting him out of her life... so so far we are good.

I've done plenty now its on her.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I've been hard on her i used that exact phase "Get your freakin head out of the sand and look at your marriage falling apart!"
> 
> So I haven't been all nicey nice.
> 
> She has an ultimatum choice A or B. She chose a *modified *A which* I allowed after some of her explanations*... she seems to be adhering to getting him out of her life... so so far we are good.
> 
> I've done plenty now its on her.


No modifications. You don't let the cheater call the shots... ever. My husband didn't let me call the shots when ending my EA. I didn't let him call the shots when ending his. "My way or the highway." Guarantee, she will know you mean business. Right now, your words mean nothing as far as the affair is concerned. She knows that all she has to do is make it LOOK like she is attempting to reconcile, and you will cut her slack and she can continue being the social butterfly... looking for her next conquest (if, indeed, THIS affair has truly ended). And she is smarter now, so she knows how to hide it better. I told you this over a month ago. I did it myself. And now, unless you take REAL action, she will do what I did as well.


----------



## justbidingtime

I'll give T2FIO's wife the benefit of the doubt and agree the EA was no big deal and she has not had a PA...... Does it really matter at all in the end???? He's been treated as a cuckold and hasn't had sex in 11 months and keeps reminding us that he did 9 times in the prior two years (though I am sure he may be exaggerating that #).......

He comes to CWI and as he has in every other section on TAM continues to defend his spouse and learns very little and listens less...... However compared to the old T2FIO he is more contrite.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I have NOT extended the deadline... she has been informed there will not be a year 4.
> 
> That was purposely vague.... I already know the date I am willing to go until. That is set in stone. Yes its about a yer away as I want to give her all year 4 to return.


 You inform her that "there will not be a year 4", but in the next paragraph you tell us that "I want to give her all year 4". Because of what you have told her, from her point of view, every day of year 4 is now another day that you are backing down.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> She has an ultimatum choice A or B. She chose a modified A which I allowed after some of her explanations... she seems to be adhering to getting him out of her life... so so far we are good.


Now you are openly being disingenuous with yourself. She never committed to "getting him out of her life". She did not chose a modified A, because she ignored your so called "ultimatum" completely and did not make any choice at all. In post#1 of this thread you specifically told us that "She never made a choice and she never DENIED it was an affair... so the next morning I asked if she had any concerns... she said NO but I am not giving up a friend. I'll text him less." How can you take her telling you to your face that she is "not giving up" the other man, but will text him less as adhering to getting him out of her life, when she has made no such commitment to adhere to? Heck he is even still connected to her through her business. All she did was take it underground to avoid having to hear about it from you. Even if you found her sending texts to him, based on what she last told you, she can say that she is not doing anything different from what she told you that she was going to do. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> I've been hard on her i used that exact phase "Get your freakin head out of the sand and look at your marriage falling apart!"


 Reading this I just could not resist turning it around and telling you right back to "Get your freakin head out of the sand and look at your marriage falling apart!"


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Honestly,

I think the same way as you do. I'm not happy shes obviously not been concerned about my needs for a while now.

On the flip side I think its just her. She doesn't do well with conflict and just writes people off.

I've been telling her shes wrong for a while now. I have also been switching the dynamics around. So she is starting to show signs of actually returning to me.

Pretty much when she has sex I win. Because she knows she won't be able to slide back into the old sex life.

So I get you all feel I'm wishy washy with ultimatums... maybe I am. But in the end its a constant pressure that is now affecting changes. She realizes time has run out on her not doing anything.

So again I feel this takes time. Lots of changes have already occurred and sex is really the final thing now that she seems to have cut connections with the OM and suppressed texting as a whole.

Again I feel we will end up in a sexual marriage better than before. Sooner rather than later.

I could be wrong... but I might just be right and that will shock many here.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Honestly,
> 
> I think the same way as you do. I'm not happy shes obviously not been concerned about my needs for a while now.
> 
> On the flip side I think its just her. She doesn't do well with conflict and just writes people off.
> 
> I've been telling her shes wrong for a while now. I have also been switching the dynamics around. So she is starting to show signs of actually returning to me.
> 
> Pretty much when she has sex I win. Because she knows she won't be able to slide back into the old sex life.
> 
> So I get you all feel I'm wishy washy with ultimatums... maybe I am. But in the end its a constant pressure that is now affecting changes. She realizes time has run out on her not doing anything.
> 
> So again I feel this takes time. Lots of changes have already occurred and sex is really the final thing now that *she seems to have cut connections with the OM* and suppressed texting as a whole.
> 
> Again I feel we will end up in a sexual marriage better than before. Sooner rather than later.
> 
> I could be wrong... but I might just be right and that will shock many here.


What signs? Really, from what you have stated, the ONLY thing you have said is she SEEMS to have cut connection...SEEMS, T2. But there is nothing else showing for it. You think she will start a sexual marriage (by your own admission, you have actually been sexless by definition from the very beginning), just from having sex once? Have you not read threads here or even anywhere else where the WS gives just enough to make the BS think things are ok? That's placating. And that's what she could very well do, should you continue with this plan you have. Hell, I did it myself when I was still in contact with my EAp. And she doesn't realize time has run out...you haven't actually told her "time's up, what's it gonna be?"... You are just watching, waiting, hoping. 

Just... ugh. I hate seeing someone, anyone, getting snowed like you are. It's really sad. And, I suspect you will be back here in a couple months saying "I don't know what happened. I was sure she wasn't talking to him anymore. I know my plan was going to work. How did it go so wrong? I found a phone... but she explained it to me, and it makes sense... it just doesn't make sense that we are still sexless."


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> She realizes time has run out on her not doing anything.


 You have stated that you will give her all of year 4, so time has not in fact run out.



Trying2figureitout said:


> I could be wrong... but I might just be right and that will shock many here.


 By many you mean everyone. When your plan is such that everyone would be shocked if you are right, maybe you should consider a different plan.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> What signs? Really, from what you have stated, the ONLY thing you have said is she SEEMS to have cut connection...SEEMS, T2. But there is nothing else showing for it. You think she will start a sexual marriage (by your own admission, you have actually been sexless by definition from the very beginning), just from having sex once? Have you not read threads here or even anywhere else where the WS gives just enough to make the BS think things are ok? That's placating. And that's what she could very well do, should you continue with this plan you have. Hell, I did it myself when I was still in contact with my EAp. And she doesn't realize time has run out...you haven't actually told her "time's up, what's it gonna be?"... You are just watching, waiting, hoping.
> 
> Just... ugh. I hate seeing someone, anyone, getting snowed like you are. It's really sad. And, I suspect you will be back here in a couple months saying "I don't know what happened. I was sure she wasn't talking to him anymore. I know my plan was going to work. How did it go so wrong? I found a phone... but she explained it to me, and it makes sense... it just doesn't make sense that we are still sexless."


Actually we weren't by definition sexless all along... leading up to Ilynilwy we were at 15-20 /yr. Yes low but not by definition sexless. 

Yes I believe by having sex once that will lead to a normal sexual marriage... based on previous communication.

I appreciate you input being the strayed spouse. You lived it.

I may have to come down harder... but for now I won't. Again its my plan of how to turn my marriage around. 

We'll see. I think what I've done is enough.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> You have stated that you will give her all of year 4, so time has not in fact run out.
> 
> By many you mean everyone. When your plan is such that everyone would be shocked if you are right, maybe you should consider a different plan.


Only one plan that evolves. I'm looking for a permanent fix.

So its maybe by appearance a little less harsh than most.

BTW I ordered the Shirley Glass book that was recommended.

See I do listen.


----------



## warlock07

you are entrusting a selfish cheater to repair your marriage when you even don't know the extent of her betrayal..

You cannot fix a flat tire by fixing a new engine to the car...


----------



## justbidingtime

I think you just miss the interaction on here T2FIO..... Last year I called you a cuckold and suggested an affair. I know mem11363 chimed in a # of times as did others. I actually miss the old T2FIO, full of vim, vinegar & bluster and the assertions of a solution. Last month we got a taste of the manifesto, that again is on the backburner as he has now ventured to CWI to discuss his situation. 

Like Nero, he fiddles while Rome is burning...... Man Up, do the 180, implement nmmng (or whatever it's called), join a website for married cheaters or something. Heck throw her on the bed and have your way 'til she gives you an emphatic "NO" and then you'll have your answer.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

warlock07 said:


> you are entrusting a selfish cheater to repair your marriage when you even don't know the extent of her betrayal..
> 
> You cannot fix a flat tire by fixing a new engine to the car...


No but you can improve the marriage on your own. eventually the spouse responds as I'm seeing now.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Only one plan that evolves.


 If by "evolves" you mean back down, then yes that sounds like your plan to a tee.


----------



## snap

Maricha75 said:


> Have you not read threads here or even anywhere else where the WS gives just enough to make the BS think things are ok?


She stays faithful to the OM and there is no threat from husband, so that's unlikely to happen.


----------



## TRy

snap said:


> She stays faithful to the OM and there is no threat from husband, so that's unlikely to happen.


You are so on the money here. As we have read time and again on these and other boards, cheaters often limit or withhold sex from their husbands so as to stay faithful to there other man. A sick and twisted reality once cheaters are in the fog of an affair.


----------



## strugglinghusband

2asdf2 said:


> Why do you keep posting here?


Better question, why do we?


----------



## Maricha75

2asdf2 said:


> Why do you keep posting here?





strugglinghusband said:


> Better question, why do we?


Insanity, duh. 

He, and we, post the same things, hoping for different results.


----------



## MrK

From the very first words of this thread, 13 pages ago:



Trying2figureitout said:


> Most of you know my story...
> 
> Anywhere from 600-1200 texts per month to a single guy from the gym for at least three years. Morning on way to work, at lunch and before bed.
> 
> Took 3 years to get her to realize the damage she was causing. More often than not her texting him.
> 
> I'm more confident than not that she kept it from going full PA. But can never be sure...



And it just goes on into no sex...

It's not the overly fantastic stories of infidelity and intrigue that get me smelling "troll". It's posting something like that, then ELEVEN PAGES LATER, with advice trending OVERWHELMINGLY to the contrary, to post this:



Trying2figureitout said:


> I understand fully... my sexless marriage will not go on forever. I already made a decision if things aren't spiffy *by this time next year* I'll end it. I base this on the average 3-4 years for turnarounds.... I won't waste more time than 4 years. I'm pretty certain things will be turning around soon probably within weeks or months.


And THAT post goes on. Another year of Hell and another year gone forever.

Here's the deal. She's gone. Wive's leave marriages ALL THE TIME. Spend some time reading the threads. Go in the search box and search "ILYBINILW", "walkaway wife". You'll catch on. When a husband finally get's it knocked into his thick skull that his wife is gone or in danger of leaving, he handles it one of two ways:

1 - He takes charge of the issue. Improves himself immediately. He shows his wife more attention and vows to do everything to improve his family and marriage. His wife notices the improvement and comes along.

2 - The way you and I handled it. You, whimpered and cried while trainer boy said "later babe, call me when crybaby is under control", then goes off to his next target at the gym (2 tangents: 1-this guy should be reported, 2-I almost feel scared for his wife when this dirtbag dumps her). She's hated you for the previous three years, and still you've done NOTHING to improve her opinion of you. 

It's SO easy for all of us here in our cozy homes and relationships to tell you to dump her. I can't tell you that. NONE of us can. But here's what I CAN tell you. She's gone. And I'm sorry, but my 3 years on these sites tells me they rarely come back. And your chances of being in the minority that DO come back don't look good. 

Give it a year? OK. I'll give it a year of you living under the same roof as her. There are practical realities to that. But you need to read up on the 180 and implement it as soon as you can. It should fix your sex problem at the same time. Because if you don't have her doing nasty things to you in the name of doing HER BEST to save your marriage by Christmas, it ain't going to happen and you need to get it elsewhere. (Oh, and if you're one of those guys who needs his wife to enjoy it for YOU to be able to enjoy it, just bail now. Save that year.)

My wife really doesn't like me. But in the name of saving our marriage and family, she'll give it to me when I want it (I try not to abuse the privledge). And she'll even make it look like she enjoys it sometimes. That's just my one experience, but I'd SURELY be gone if I couldn't get SOMETHING every few days. My wife knows that and will do a little lifting there (among other things). That is just yet ANOTHER place your wife won't help.

She doesn't even have to work hard. Hell, she could even be asleep, but that's just me, I guess...


----------



## justbidingtime

This is an old old story and if you think T2FIO will listen, then you are like the rest of us who continue to post on his threads.......

He's read all the books and changed his persona, fixed his shortcomings, become the better husband/friend/father that he needed to be....... None of this has helped one bit in terms of having a fulfilling or at least passable sex life (how I measure it in any case). Heck he doesn't even get affection from his wife........

While I don't fully understand or appreciate MrK's compromise in his marriage, if it works for him, all the power.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> She is not tired. Her ENTIRE schedule is one big chastity belt that has been designed with YOU in mind.
> 
> This is including girls nights out, and whatever she does on the weekends. You are funding her little adventures while she has you living like a priest.


Mem..

I disagree,,, just this morning she is terrified her work will ask her to work at night due to the holidays.

Her own words "I'm done after 8pm... done" I said "I know"
She said "It's always been that way... I don't know how I could function" its actually at a phobia level... she was honestly scared of them asking her. Actual fear.


So Tired is a "valid" excuse in her case that has been consistent her entire life validated by her parents. Might also explain are relatively low sex life prior. Since night was when it happened.

Our issue really boils down to her being tired and her needing to reconnect. Also dropping the friendship hat morphed into a daily text buddy.

We have 2 out of 3 going... now we probably will have to address the tired issue and find an alternative to sex at night sometimes.

She has to find a solution for us to function though, I'll credit her for reconnecting and ditching the guy but now we have to address being tired... its literally a race against the clock every night I'm with her.

Its not avoidance its HER sleep pattern.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MrK said:


> From the very first words of this thread, 13 pages ago:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And it just goes on into no sex...
> 
> It's not the overly fantastic stories of infidelity and intrigue that get me smelling "troll". It's posting something like that, then ELEVEN PAGES LATER, with advice trending OVERWHELMINGLY to the contrary, to post this:
> 
> 
> 
> And THAT post goes on. Another year of Hell and another year gone forever.
> 
> Here's the deal. She's gone. Wive's leave marriages ALL THE TIME. Spend some time reading the threads. Go in the search box and search "ILYBINILW", "walkaway wife". You'll catch on. When a husband finally get's it knocked into his thick skull that his wife is gone or in danger of leaving, he handles it one of two ways:
> 
> 1 - He takes charge of the issue. Improves himself immediately. He shows his wife more attention and vows to do everything to improve his family and marriage. His wife notices the improvement and comes along.
> 
> 2 - The way you and I handled it. You, whimpered and cried while trainer boy said "later babe, call me when crybaby is under control", then goes off to his next target at the gym (2 tangents: 1-this guy should be reported, 2-I almost feel scared for his wife when this dirtbag dumps her). She's hated you for the previous three years, and still you've done NOTHING to improve her opinion of you.
> 
> It's SO easy for all of us here in our cozy homes and relationships to tell you to dump her. I can't tell you that. NONE of us can. But here's what I CAN tell you. She's gone. And I'm sorry, but my 3 years on these sites tells me they rarely come back. And your chances of being in the minority that DO come back don't look good.
> 
> Give it a year? OK. I'll give it a year of you living under the same roof as her. There are practical realities to that. But you need to read up on the 180 and implement it as soon as you can. It should fix your sex problem at the same time. Because if you don't have her doing nasty things to you in the name of doing HER BEST to save your marriage by Christmas, it ain't going to happen and you need to get it elsewhere. (Oh, and if you're one of those guys who needs his wife to enjoy it for YOU to be able to enjoy it, just bail now. Save that year.)
> 
> My wife really doesn't like me. But in the name of saving our marriage and family, she'll give it to me when I want it (I try not to abuse the privledge). And she'll even make it look like she enjoys it sometimes. That's just my one experience, but I'd SURELY be gone if I couldn't get SOMETHING every few days. My wife knows that and will do a little lifting there (among other things). That is just yet ANOTHER place your wife won't help.
> 
> She doesn't even have to work hard. Hell, she could even be asleep, but that's just me, I guess...


Key word in all that... rarely. That means there is a chance (scene from Dumber and Dumber)

Look I knew the odds going in. I will not fail. This has been a coordinated plan to win my wife back and improve our sex life permanently. I see the changes already. You all are going to be like NO FREAKING WAY when it actually works. 

It WILL work. I will help others fix their sexless marriages.

It takes time. MrK feel sorry for you. I'd rather have no sex than have sex with a 'wife" that doesn't even like me. That would be unacceptable in my marriage. But to each their own.

My wife actually understands the issue. She also wants connected sex and is working towards that.


----------



## strugglinghusband

T2, have you read " Not just friends" I know you ordered it, but please for the love of pete, READ the damn thing ASAP, it will open your eyes big time regarding E/A's...The most crucial point in the whole book is absoultey No Contact!!! with the affair partner, without that you got nothing to start from and I mean nothing.
I tell you this from experience my friend not just reading it but by living it.

Read the book, read the book...read the book!!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

strugglinghusband said:


> T2, have you read " Not just friends" I know you ordered it, but please for the love of pete, READ the damn thing ASAP, it will open your eyes big time regarding E/A's...The most crucial point in the whole book is absoultey No Contact!!! with the affair partner, without that you got nothing to start from and I mean nothing.
> I tell you this from experience my friend not just reading it but by living it.
> 
> Read the book, read the book...read the book!!!


I will... who are you to say my wife has not instituted no contact already? It appears she has.

I don't need to verify its on her to deal with it. Shes an adult.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> I will... who are you to say my wife has not instituted no contact already? It appears she has.
> 
> I don't need to verify its on her to deal with it. Shes an adult.


I don't agree with NC, nor do I have the same visceral response to what an EA is or the various forms they take.

What we do know is she still goes to the gym and he is there. Either he has moved on to another "conquest" and so has she, or they are still in contact and continuing on.....


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I will... who are you to say my wife has not instituted no contact already? It appears she has.
> 
> I don't need to verify its on her to deal with it. Shes an adult.


You DO need to verify NC with cheaters. You can't just blindly trust that she has ceased contact with him. You blindly trusted that she would remain faithful...to YOU... and look what happened. She cheated. You won't verify because you are afraid that what we are telling you is true... that she has gone underground. And the only way to know for sure is to check. You can't trust that she is telling you the truth. She has been lying to you FOR YEARS, man! You won't do it because you're scared. And YOU were the one who said she cut back on contact with him, not ceased. YOU were the one who said they still have contact via a business. We are going by what YOU have posted.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> I don't agree with NC, nor do I have the same visceral response to what an EA is or the various forms they take.
> 
> What we do know is she still goes to the gym and he is there. Either he has moved on to another "conquest" and so has she, or they are still in contact and continuing on.....


She is not the "type" to cheat... this casual friendship was a product of difficulties in our marriage... now that those are and have been fully resolved there is no need for her to have a crutch.

She is faithful... this friendship of hers though pushed a boundary and affected healing of our marriage. It won't happen again as its not really in her makeup.


----------



## BjornFree

Trying2figureitout said:


> She is not the "type" to cheat... this casual friendship was a product of difficulties in our marriage... now that those are and have been fully resolved there is no need for her to have a crutch.
> 
> She is faithful... this friendship of hers though pushed a boundary and affected healing of our marriage. It won't happen again as its not really in her makeup.


You'd be surprised to find out just how many people think that way only to be blindsided when they find out the truth. We're all capable of cheating.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> You DO need to verify NC with cheaters. You can't just blindly trust that she has ceased contact with him. You blindly trusted that she would remain faithful...to YOU... and look what happened. She cheated. You won't verify because you are afraid that what we are telling you is true... that she has gone underground. And the only way to know for sure is to check. You can't trust that she is telling you the truth. She has been lying to you FOR YEARS, man! You won't do it because you're scared. And YOU were the one who said she cut back on contact with him, not ceased. YOU were the one who said they still have contact via a business. We are going by what YOU have posted.



I am not scared of asking her or finding out. 

I don't because I choose not to. I believe in letting people deal with their own issues. She has been informed already of my expectations. I don't have to keep harping on it as long as she does something about it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

BjornFree said:


> You'd be surprised to find out just how many people think that way only to be blindsided when they find out the truth. We're all capable of cheating.


I know we all are.... but there are those who have the propensity to cheating and nether her or I are that way.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

> I am not scared of asking her or finding out.
> 
> *I don't because I choose not to. I believe in letting people deal with their own issues. *She has been informed already of my expectations. I don't have to keep harping on it as long as she does something about it.


I was going to respond to something else you wrote, but I think we have found a Eureka statement from you. What I put in bold is telling IMHO, and I think it sums up why your marriage is in the state you find it today...


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> She is not the "type" to cheat... this casual friendship was a product of difficulties in our marriage... now that those are and have been fully resolved there is no need for her to have a crutch.
> 
> She is faithful... this friendship of hers though pushed a boundary and affected healing of our marriage. It won't happen again as its not really in her makeup.


Dude, why do you keep calling it a friendship? You said it yourself that it is an emotional affair... an AFFAIR... CHEATING. 

I wasn't the "type" to cheat either... and I did. My husband wasn't the "type" either... and he did. He always had the stance "flirting = cheating". Never did it cross my mind that he would ever get emotionally attached to another woman, but he did. Your issues are nto resolved. If they were, you wouldn't be here saying "any time now". You would be telling us "it worked! we are back to normal!" But it hasn't, and you are not. And saying it won't ever happen again because it's not in her makeup? You know what? I'm not even gonna touch that one.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I will... who are you to say my wife has not instituted no contact already? It appears she has.
> 
> Take a chill pill and have a beer...
> 
> APPEARS being the operative word above ^^^
> 
> I didnt say she was no contact or not... YOU DID, you said, that she told you, she will text Him less and she not giving up her friend....that was after you gave her option A or option B and she took a modified version of option A, which by the way was not even on the table, she gave you option A modified and you took it, not her...
> 
> I don't need to verify its on her to deal with it. Shes an adult.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I am not scared of asking her or finding out.
> 
> I don't because I choose not to. I believe in letting people deal with their own issues. She has been informed already of my expectations. I don't have to keep harping on it as long as she does something about it.


When you are married, HER issues are YOUR issues. They affect you. YOUR issues are HER issues. They affect her. I stand by my assessment.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I was going to respond to something else you wrote, but I think we have found a Eureka statement from you. What I put in bold is telling IMHO, and I think it sums up why your marriage is in the state you find it today...


Self discovery is more powerful than brow-beating.

Look at all my efforts its because I looked in the mirror... my wife didn't brow beat me. I acted on my own.

Same will happen for her. She needs to decide how her marriage will look. She needs to decide what changes need to occur.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I know we all are.... but there are *those who have the propensity to cheating* and* nether her or I are that way*.


And yet... she has. I'd ask how you can explain that...but I think we know the answer.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Self discovery is more powerful than brow-beating.
> 
> Look at all my efforts its because I looked in the mirror... my wife didn't brow beat me. I acted on my own.
> 
> Same will happen for her. She needs to decide how her marriage will look. She needs to decide what changes need to occur.


The difference is YOU didn't CHEAT! 

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I don't drink anymore so can't have that beer.

Even if I said she can have him as a friend and she said she would text him less.

After the EA letter she appears to have found a eureka moment that the guy is destroying her marriage. She is going with Plan A now that shes been made aware in a powerful way.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Maricha75 said:


> When you are married, HER issues are YOUR issues. They affect you. YOUR issues are HER issues. They affect her. I stand by my assessment.


:iagree: X 1000


----------



## justbidingtime

There are so many on TAM that I have incredible respect (or pity for) and not sure which. They have sexless marriages, no intimacy or passion, yet persevere. Don't know how I'd cope. 
T2FIO had a low sex marriage to begin with (15-20X's/yr), got the ilybnilwy speech, went to 3-5X's/yr for two years, was treated as a cuckold since late 2011 to present (no sex), has a spouse in an inappropriate relationship with someone at the gym (and probably more) and the list goes on. If she hasn't had a PA, I feel sorry for her too and am sure she has no need nor wants a sexual relationship/marriage.

He had an anger issue and drinking problem (which he has admitted), that he claims he has now addressed, yet claims to be a "great catch" that many women will/would swoon over and give him the love, attention, sex that he craves, yet he goes on and on defending a cruel, heartless woman in every post while claiming he has solved his problems and marriage.

I just can't stop reading.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't drink anymore so can't have that beer.
> 
> Even if I said she can have him as a friend and she said she would text him less.
> 
> After the EA letter she appears to have found a eureka moment *that the guy is destroying her marriage*. She is going with Plan A now that shes been made aware in a powerful way.


Change that to "The guy is helping her to destroy the marriage"

He's not doing it by himself....


----------



## snap

Trying2figureitout said:


> Mem..
> 
> I disagree,,, just this morning she is terrified her work will ask her to work at night due to the holidays.
> 
> Her own words "I'm done after 8pm... done" I said "I know"
> She said "It's always been that way... I don't know how I could function" its actually at a phobia level... she was honestly scared of them asking her. Actual fear.
> 
> 
> So Tired is a "valid" excuse in her case that has been consistent her entire life validated by her parents. Might also explain are relatively low sex life prior. Since night was when it happened.


As you say she had a thousand messages to the OM, monthly. Assuming it takes 30 seconds to read, process and compose an answer to a text, 1000 messages translates to 500 minutes, or about 8 hours 20 minutes every months of interaction.

We're not counting her gym and GNO time even.

Still she won't find a 15 minutes for a quickie with you?


----------



## Maricha75

snap said:


> As you say she had a thousand messages to the OM, monthly. Assuming it takes 30 seconds to read, process and compose an answer to a text, 1000 messages translates to 500 minutes, or about 8 hours 20 minutes every months of interaction.
> 
> We're not counting her gym and GNO time even.
> 
> Still she won't find a 15 minutes for a quickie with you?


*DING DING DING!!*

That's the thing. She thinks so little of the marriage that everyone else takes precedence. There is NO reason for not getting it on right after work at least once a week. None. There is NO EXCUSE for GNO while you are sitting home, twiddling your thumbs because she doesn't want to spend her time off WITH YOU. Yea, she's a social butterfly, blah, blah, blah. Even a social butterfly will scale back and make time for her spouse... IF SHE ACTUALLY WANTS TO! NO excuse for not spending time with your spouse. NONE!


----------



## Ovid

After 11 months without any it shouldn't take 15 minutes...


----------



## TCSRedhead

snap said:


> As you say she had a thousand messages to the OM, monthly. Assuming it takes 30 seconds to read, process and compose an answer to a text, 1000 messages translates to 500 minutes, or about 8 hours 20 minutes every months of interaction.
> 
> We're not counting her gym and GNO time even.
> 
> Still she won't find a 15 minutes for a quickie with you?


That's exactly what we're all saying and he's refusing to see.

I am still floored by her telling him that she'd 'spread her legs for him if that's what he really wanted' - WTH? Who talks to a man they love that way? One who's getting it someplace else.


----------



## strugglinghusband

justbidingtime said:


> I just can't stop reading.



Scary isnt it?


----------



## Cubby

Trying2figureitout, you're trying way too hard 2 figure it out. You're overthinking this. We know you believe there will be a rewarding payoff in the end, but is all of this anguish and worry worth it for something that may or may not happen (my money's on "may not") Only someone with very low self-respect would put up with what you're putting up with. Most of us have figured it out long ago after reading the first several posts: Time for you to move on.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Same will happen for her. She needs to decide how her marriage will look. She needs to decide what changes need to occur.


 Your wife made many bad decisions and cheated. She is lost in the affair fog, and you have been lost with her for 3 years because you have been letting her take the lead. The only way that you as a couple are going to find your way out of this mess, is if you take charge and lead the way.


----------



## justbidingtime

T2FIO I am not stalking you at all (I promise), but you do certainly intrigue me..... I found this post where you give advise to someone in an EA.....



Trying2figureitout said:


> My wife had at least and EA with the OM who was single.
> 
> She was presented with a final choice yesterday me or him. She had at least three times to I brought it up end it and didn't. So now its me or him.
> 
> 
> To answer your question.....
> 
> 
> Its simply because YOU allowed it. No one held a gun to your head.
> 
> YOU know its wrong. DEAD WRONG!
> 
> my wife chose to give a guy from the gym her number that started the slippery slope and a nearly three year sexless marriage... tis blossomed into at least a three year EA/PA.
> 
> She risked our marriage and I gave her the ultimate choice yesterday.
> 
> 
> Your marriage cannot survive having a third party male involved.
> 
> Get you head into fixing things with your husband.... NO CONTACT!
> 
> Get out of the fog. Seriously send a no contact letter and delete all his contact info.


Why don't you "REALLY" take seriously what you've told others to do????


----------



## Entropy3000

vi_bride04 said:


> *This thread makes me want to slam my head into a brick wall....*
> 
> OP, I'm sorry you can't find enough self respect to at least TRY to listen to some of the more experienced posters here. Everything that you are being told is spot on. Human behavior is human behavior and your W is no exception to that rule.
> 
> Good luck. I'm sorry you don't value yourself enough to want more out of your marriage and your wife. You deserve it.


This is the intent ... I believe.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I'm not sure why I get so many people riled up.

I feel like i'm onto a solution for nor only a sexless marriage but also a low sex marriage.

I don't think I'm delusional or off-base in my thinking that with enough effort just about any situation can be turned around.

It obvious my marriage has some unique issues that need addressed and that is what I've been working on for three years it took 17 to get to ILYNILWY, with a wife who is known for holding deep grudges.

So I have a choice stay or leave.... I choose stay for now because I can see the changes in my wife. She will turn it on when she turns it on. She will solve this when she feels "in control" to solve it. This means I have to come at it from different directions guiding her to that decision.

Why cant you all just believe me when I say I believe it will work?

I don't just want a fix... I want a better more sexual marriage so there is a difference there.

All I have been about is heading that direction over time. If I fail I will end it. Right now I don't see failure I see success and the resolution of my marriage into one we both can live with forever. 

Is that so wrong?

Who is to say my methods won't work? Pretty much if you just keep your eye on the goal you will achieve that goal.... extracting the OM was part of the plan at he correct time. A time in which she freely chose to do so.

So I understand the criticism because it hasn't worked YET and my case was EXTReME the bottom line though if it does work then it would work for many others. My life my choice.


----------



## anchorwatch

God bless you T, you have patience and conviction of a saint. That said, even with your successes since ILYBINILWY you know the jury is still out on you reaching your final goal. Too many failed stories here makes plenty of skeptics. Good luck, keep plugging at turning it around.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm not sure why I get so many people riled up.


Simple: you won't take the advice that you, yourself, also dish out. How do you expect someone to take you seriously when you don't take YOURSELF seriously? :scratchhead:



Trying2figureitout said:


> I feel like i'm onto a solution for nor only a sexless marriage but also a low sex marriage.


T2, it might just well work... in a marriage that is ONLY sexless, where there was no cheating. Your wife was (or is, jury still out on this one) cheating. Willing your marriage back to normal, or better, is like willing your arm to reattach itself when it's been cut off in an accident. You can't do it. You need to take action and DO something to reattach it. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't think I'm delusional or off-base in my thinking that with enough effort just about any situation can be turned around.


You are right, if you work at something, you WILL see some sort of results. The problem is.... lack of work. You talk a good game... but no results. You gave her two options and allow her to modify the one she chose. She is in control of the situation, not you. She is calling the shots, not you. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference what you think you are doing... she is the one in control, pulling YOUR strings. You are, for all intents and purposes, her puppet, her trained show dog, if you will. She has you well trained enough to believe you are in charge... but you are not.



Trying2figureitout said:


> It obvious my marriage has some unique issues that need addressed and that is what I've been working on for three years it took 17 to get to ILYNILWY, with a wife who is known for holding deep grudges.


Every marriage has unique issues. Every situation is different. However, the one thing infidelity has in common is the script. We/they all follow the same script, with slight modifications per user. But, it NEVER, EVER, EVER works to get them/us out by allowing them to have control of the marriage. Even one poster, who many believed was too passive, took action. And she was (maybe still is?) verifying through every known venue. Her husband got, or is getting, out of his EA. But it wasn't from her letting him call the shots. She did take action and they are in counseling. The point is, she didn't print up a bunch of articles. She didn't let him modify the agreement, etc. 

BTW, I hold grudges for a long time too...I get that from my mom. This method would NOT have worked on me, a stubborn, pigheaded short-tempered b!tch. Just not happening. If my husband acted like this, it would have driven me further toward the OM....and toward kicking him to the curb.



Trying2figureitout said:


> So I have a choice stay or leave.... I choose stay for now because I can see the changes in my wife. She will turn it on when she turns it on. She will solve this when she feels "in control" to solve it. This means I have to come at it from different directions guiding her to that decision.


You are not guiding her...she is guiding you. She IS in control. She always has been.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Why cant you all just believe me when I say I believe it will work?


We absolutely believe that YOU believe it will work. We just don't believe it will.



Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't just want a fix... I want a better more sexual marriage so there is a difference there.


And the only way to get a sexual marriage is by... here, say it with me... HAVING SEX. And, I would have to say that I would suggest a sex therapist at this point. The therapist might be able to knock your wife out of the fog.



Trying2figureitout said:


> All I have been about is heading that direction over time. If I fail I will end it. Right now I don't see failure I see success and the resolution of my marriage into one we both can live with forever.


Yes, we understand that... your PLAN all along. Marriage 2.0 and all that. But, sad to say, I don't think you will end it. I think you will keep plodding along, hoping for the scraps she may toss your way.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Is that so wrong?


Nope, not at all. It's not wrong to hope. But you do realize that insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result, right?



Trying2figureitout said:


> Who is to say my methods won't work? Pretty much if you just keep your eye on the goal you will achieve that goal.... extracting the OM was part of the plan at he correct time. A time in which she freely chose to do so.


OM should have been removed immediately. You made it easier for them to come up with a PLAN of their own. Who is to say your methods won't work? I'd say every other member here who has been down the infidelity road. If she hadn't cheated, your method might work. Just don't see it working on a cheater.



Trying2figureitout said:


> So I understand the criticism because it hasn't worked YET and my case was EXTReME the bottom line though if it does work then it would work for many others.


Your case is extreme because you LET it get extreme. You LET her take the reins. You LET her take the lead. You LET her walk all over you, and your attempts at fixing your marriage. You LET her continue the affair because you LET her snow you. You refuse to verify anything... and never have. You choose to believe the word of a cheater above all else. Again, if she hadn't cheated, your PLAN might have worked... MAYBE.



Trying2figureitout said:


> My life my choice.


And this is about all I completely agree with... your life, your choice. So frankly, I don't see why it is so important that you convince us that it will work... or are you really trying to convince yourself? I have seen the advice you have given those who are in your shoes. You tell them the EXACT same things WE are telling YOU... and yet, you don't take your own advice.

Ordinarily, I don't agree with an old saying... in this case, it appears to apply.

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

For those teachers out there, I know you can do it... MOST teachers CAN.


----------



## alte Dame

I just caught up on this thread & want to say that I wish you the best of luck with the strategy you've chosen. It's blessedly thick-headed, but you certainly are tenacious if nothing else.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Simple: you won't take the advice that you, yourself, also dish out. How do you expect someone to take you seriously when you don't take YOURSELF seriously? :scratchhead:
> 
> 
> 
> T2, it might just well work... in a marriage that is ONLY sexless, where there was no cheating. Your wife was (or is, jury still out on this one) cheating. Willing your marriage back to normal, or better, is like willing your arm to reattach itself when it's been cut off in an accident. You can't do it. You need to take action and DO something to reattach it.
> 
> 
> 
> You are right, if you work at something, you WILL see some sort of results. The problem is.... lack of work. You talk a good game... but no results. You gave her two options and allow her to modify the one she chose. She is in control of the situation, not you. She is calling the shots, not you. It doesn't make a damn bit of difference what you think you are doing... she is the one in control, pulling YOUR strings. You are, for all intents and purposes, her puppet, her trained show dog, if you will. She has you well trained enough to believe you are in charge... but you are not.
> 
> 
> 
> Every marriage has unique issues. Every situation is different. However, the one thing infidelity has in common is the script. We/they all follow the same script, with slight modifications per user. But, it NEVER, EVER, EVER works to get them/us out by allowing them to have control of the marriage. Even one poster, who many believed was too passive, took action. And she was (maybe still is?) verifying through every known venue. Her husband got, or is getting, out of his EA. But it wasn't from her letting him call the shots. She did take action and they are in counseling. The point is, she didn't print up a bunch of articles. She didn't let him modify the agreement, etc.
> 
> BTW, I hold grudges for a long time too...I get that from my mom. This method would NOT have worked on me, a stubborn, pigheaded short-tempered b!tch. Just not happening. If my husband acted like this, it would have driven me further toward the OM....and toward kicking him to the curb.
> 
> 
> 
> You are not guiding her...she is guiding you. She IS in control. She always has been.
> 
> 
> 
> We absolutely believe that YOU believe it will work. We just don't believe it will.
> 
> 
> 
> And the only way to get a sexual marriage is by... here, say it with me... HAVING SEX. And, I would have to say that I would suggest a sex therapist at this point. The therapist might be able to knock your wife out of the fog.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we understand that... your PLAN all along. Marriage 2.0 and all that. But, sad to say, I don't think you will end it. I think you will keep plodding along, hoping for the scraps she may toss your way.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, not at all. It's not wrong to hope. But you do realize that insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result, right?
> 
> 
> 
> OM should have been removed immediately. You made it easier for them to come up with a PLAN of their own. Who is to say your methods won't work? I'd say every other member here who has been down the infidelity road. If she hadn't cheated, your method might work. Just don't see it working on a cheater.
> 
> 
> 
> Your case is extreme because you LET it get extreme. You LET her take the reins. You LET her take the lead. You LET her walk all over you, and your attempts at fixing your marriage. You LET her continue the affair because you LET her snow you. You refuse to verify anything... and never have. You choose to believe the word of a cheater above all else. Again, if she hadn't cheated, your PLAN might have worked... MAYBE.
> 
> 
> 
> And this is about all I completely agree with... your life, your choice. So frankly, I don't see why it is so important that you convince us that it will work... or are you really trying to convince yourself? I have seen the advice you have given those who are in your shoes. You tell them the EXACT same things WE are telling YOU... and yet, you don't take your own advice.
> 
> Ordinarily, I don't agree with an old saying... in this case, it appears to apply.
> 
> "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
> 
> For those teachers out there, I know you can do it... MOST teachers CAN.


Maricha,

I do understand what you are saying. Yes I've been passive in the past and that's what led me here. I learned that was not he way forward so I changed. I stood up from my needs unwavering, its taken time for my wife to get her head around providing my needs.... its a process.

Some great things have come out of this... sex is in effect the very last domino because once she gives it up we are by default in a brand new sexlife. Its part of the plan.

Again I'm fine with where I'm at because I see her changing her and I will sooner rather than later roll into a new sustainable and fully connected sex life.

How many people in a sexless marriage do you have saying I'm fine?

I really am because I know the ending to this ordeal already... just a matter of time.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
You have been boasting, prematurely declaring victory, insisting that you have found the silver bullet, etc. for years now. 

I believe you are a case study - in how NOT to do this. 

As for your repeated claim that it takes 3-4 years to fix a sexless marriage, where did you read that? 

You have bought into the notions that:
- Your wife gets to hold grudges as long as she wants
- You have to be very careful not to hurt her feelings because she will hold it against you
- The reason she doesn't want to have sex is you have "pressured her" to do so by - deep gasp - actually asking her to do so




Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm not sure why I get so many people riled up.
> 
> I feel like i'm onto a solution for nor only a sexless marriage but also a low sex marriage.
> 
> I don't think I'm delusional or off-base in my thinking that with enough effort just about any situation can be turned around.
> 
> It obvious my marriage has some unique issues that need addressed and that is what I've been working on for three years it took 17 to get to ILYNILWY, with a wife who is known for holding deep grudges.
> 
> So I have a choice stay or leave.... I choose stay for now because I can see the changes in my wife. She will turn it on when she turns it on. She will solve this when she feels "in control" to solve it. This means I have to come at it from different directions guiding her to that decision.
> 
> Why cant you all just believe me when I say I believe it will work?
> 
> I don't just want a fix... I want a better more sexual marriage so there is a difference there.
> 
> All I have been about is heading that direction over time. If I fail I will end it. Right now I don't see failure I see success and the resolution of my marriage into one we both can live with forever.
> 
> Is that so wrong?
> 
> Who is to say my methods won't work? Pretty much if you just keep your eye on the goal you will achieve that goal.... extracting the OM was part of the plan at he correct time. A time in which she freely chose to do so.
> 
> So I understand the criticism because it hasn't worked YET and my case was EXTReME the bottom line though if it does work then it would work for many others. My life my choice.


----------



## TRy

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> You have bought into the notions that:
> - Your wife gets to hold grudges as long as she wants
> - You have to be very careful not to hurt her feelings because she will hold it against you
> - The reason she doesn't want to have sex is you have "pressured her" to do so by - deep gasp - actually asking her to do so


 You forgot one. That he must not ask her if she gave up her affair partner, because he knows that she has and does not want to put pressure on her by confirming this with her.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> She is not the "type" to cheat... this casual friendship was a product of difficulties in our marriage... now that those are and have been fully resolved there is no need for her to have a crutch.
> 
> She is faithful... this friendship of hers though pushed a boundary and affected healing of our marriage. It won't happen again as its not really in her makeup.


No. No you do not. She is NOT faithful. You can claim that you have not seen her having sex with him but indeed her not having sex with you and her choosing this other man over you which you admit, is by definition unfaithful.

No, indeed. She is not a faithful wife.


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> I know we all are.... but there are those who have the propensity to cheating and nether her or I are that way.


If one steals they prove they are capable of stealing.

If one lies they prove they are capable of lying.

If one cheats they prove they are capable of cheating.

She has a propensity to deny you sex and a propensity to be unfaithful to you. It is what it is.

I get the mind games you are playing with yourself. Is it Stockholm syndrome? Or just simply that anyone can talk themselves into a happy place even when being abused and mistreated? That is you simply accept your fate.


----------



## Entropy3000

Maricha75 said:


> When you are married, HER issues are YOUR issues. They affect you. YOUR issues are HER issues. They affect her. I stand by my assessment.


Indeed if you are in a partnership you look out for each other. You are not autonomous.


----------



## Entropy3000

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> You have been boasting, prematurely declaring victory, insisting that you have found the silver bullet, etc. for years now.
> 
> I believe you are a case study - in how NOT to do this.
> 
> As for your repeated claim that it takes 3-4 years to fix a sexless marriage, where did you read that?
> 
> You have bought into the notions that:
> - Your wife gets to hold grudges as long as she wants
> - You have to be very careful not to hurt her feelings because she will hold it against you
> - The reason she doesn't want to have sex is you have "pressured her" to do so by - deep gasp - actually asking her to do so


I remeber this now. Charlie Brown -- The Great Pumpkin. Despite all evidence Linus still believes in the Great Pumpkin and ends up missing out in life.


----------



## justbidingtime

I am editing what I read elsewhere, which I find apropos...

*Don't you understand that it's every man's dream to be perpetually chained to an emotionally abusive, stuck in an EA/PA, who has given you the ILYBNILWY speech, sex-denying wife?

The emotional satisfaction to the husband comes not from within the marriage, but from the opportunity to obsessively/compulsively reiterate his martyrdom on an internet message board.

Masochism...it's what's for dinner.

ETA: Just think of it...were it not for the venting outlet provided by the interent, lo over these past several years and many thousands of posts (not just here, but probably at other message forums as well), one might actually have to DO something constructive in real life. Of course that could also require engagement in pesky and annoying real-world, emotionally healthy activities such as "change" and "growth."

And we couldn't have that, could we?

So let's all continue being the enablers we are--such fun. *

Of course T2FIO has done much to change the dynamic in his opinion, just gotten nowhere where it really counts....... His wife's respect and sex.....

Couldn't have said it much better myself.....


----------



## Trying2figureitout

As for the 3-4 year statement that is based off the success stories I came across which are very few. The ones that truly turned around are those that went through a reconnect process along with a light bulb moment some even took 15 years but I won't go that far.

Again I'll use the boil a FROG analogy slowly turning up the heat. My plan all along has been focused powerful communication. Also letting her know the stages I myself was in. Mostly time and calm.

My wife now has had a chance to experience a "Better man" and I'm not talking about he OM... i'm talking about me. I fully stand up to her which I have not done before. We can talk for hours without her getting upset and with her involved in the conversation. My kids fully respect me and they adore me... she asks me to discipline them.

It really does boil down to changing the way she sees sex and its importance, also how she sees me. When you go long without its easy to put it off as the bonding/repeat chemicals are not there. So restarting is the hardest part. I don't let that be an issue and brow beat her as long as she is wrapping her mind around reconnecting and eventually having a robust sexlife.

Her and I are getting closer every single day... sex is inevitable once she feels secure in the relationship again and eliminates her crutch of communication with the OM .

I ask you all...

If you turned off emotions for your spouse and you developed a way to cope by finding a confidant. Then your spouse threatened divorce or you must have sex without changing into a person you could love again.... how would you feel?

That seems to be the overriding advice.... if the sex isn't there then by god either divorce or FORCE he other spouse to give you sex. How good will that sex be???? Is that really ideal?

Do ANY ONE OF YOU... accept your part in why your lives went to hell? Look in the mirror is something both spouses have to do ultimately in cases like this. Long lasting changes are the self-discovered ones NOT the forced ones.

SEX is not everything and when its missing it gives you a good chance to FIX everything else without FEAR of having it held against you. I don't have to worry about making her angry because she can't hold anything over me. I've learned to deal without sex temporarily until she can provide me with the sex I need.

So I WAS able to successively switch the overall dynamics of my marriage BECAUSE there was no sex . It allowed me to make the necessary changes without fear of reprisals. This a is tool for my lifetime now with her... she knows my decision stands. Including the sex I need form her.

So in essence... lack of sex was part of the plan to get a lifetime of better sex.

Think about that... its a different approach and it "may' just work.

I took a different approach a long term one to win my wife back.

It is based off Calle Zorro which is admitted by most anyone a great resource. In his teachings there is no forcing.

Same with my method that is based on that... no forcing rather guiding her towards making good choices.

So far its working...

She is definitely more connected in every way we have a really good marriage in all respects besides sex right now. Did before also but now the dynamics have switched. Plus we can communicate about anything.

She herself went for "I'm not giving up a friend' to giving up her friend in order to better her marriage.

She will eventually soon meet my need for sex because she knows if she doesn't she will not be providing what I need and she will want to make me happy in order to keep our marriage going.


So in a way my method is similar to others advised her but just with a longer time window and a focus on fixing he root of the issue which ultimately involves BOTH spouses learning their part in what got them there and how he each can improve to meet each others needs better.

3-4 years is the time it takes for REAL changes after living with the other for so many years. You don't want the old marriage back as that in essence was broke an unsustainable... you want to CREATE a new one and that takes time and also does not come from being forced to do something. One that is sustainable for life.

So whatever... I am happy with the overall results I know our sex life will be better because she has learned why its important. I NEVER wavered on what I need in regard to sex in terms of both quantity and quality.
We will also have created proper boundaries.

Anyhow that is why I'm OK with it because I went in knowing full well it'd be a long process to flip the dynamics of our marriage AND create a much better sex life.... because her and I will be more deeply connected and tied together in going through a correction process. Communication is open.

I know all of you want RESULTS and now... there are RESULTS just not sex yet but it too will come... its inevitable.

I didn't just pull this all out of a the hat its based on solid very research. I wanted a different and better marriage. That takes a long time.

I'll gladly give 3 years of little sex for many more great ones afterwards in a completely new and improved marriage to my wife. That is my plan... who are you to say it won't work? I firmly believe and see everyday that it will.


----------



## justbidingtime

So why are you here on cwi when you have the answers? It is only to hear yourself talk and rationalize the state of your marriage? I do not doubt the 3-4 year time frame but I bet that those 3-4 years includes plenty of sex and intimate bonding. 

You claim wonderful talks (and I will call you out and tell you that that is a lie). You've spun wild tales and made assertions over the past year and wife has failed every test you gave her. Heck you aren't even questioning what's going on with this OM and I bet she still is at the gym daily. 

Has she done anything on her end really? Forget sex which I won't, but you don't have any intimacy such as holding hands or hugs and kisses. 

You just use TAM to rationalize your plight. 

If you are half the great person you claim to be you'd be an incredible catch for a loving woman, yet you choose this heartless witch who has put you through this for 3-4 years. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> It really does boil down to changing the way she sees sex and its importance, also how she sees me. When you go long without its easy to put it off as the bonding/repeat chemicals are not there. So restarting is the hardest part. I don't let that be an issue and brow beat her as long as she is wrapping her mind around reconnecting and eventually having a robust sexlife.
> 
> *No, it boils down to her no longer continuing to have sex with the OM. Her emotional needs are getting met by him. For a woman, that is the person she will be having sex with...the man fullfilling her heart. *
> 
> Her and I are getting closer every single day... sex is inevitable once she feels secure in the relationship again and eliminates her crutch of communication with the OM .
> 
> *But she won't. Shes not going to eliminate contact. They still work together, right? Eliminating contact means just that...no contact at all. It has already been 3 years of her having this bond with him and you are expecting her to cut it willingly? Why would she? You aren't verifying anything she tells you so why should she not talk to him? She can just tell you she isn't and you will believe it. For a cheater, she is in paradise.*
> 
> That seems to be the overriding advice.... if the sex isn't there then by god either divorce or FORCE he other spouse to give you sex. How good will that sex be???? Is that really ideal?
> 
> * The sex isn't there b/c she is cheating on you. You are getting the advice to divorce her b/c she is a cheater. Not b/c of the "sexless marriage". I just don't see how you can totally dismiss the thought that she is sleeping with OM. *
> 
> SEX is not everything and when its missing it gives you a good chance to FIX everything else without FEAR of having it held against you. I don't have to worry about making her angry because she can't hold anything over me. I've learned to deal without sex temporarily until she can provide me with the sex I need.
> 
> *She's not going too until contact is completely cut with OM. She will never provide you with the sex you need as long as he is in the picture*
> 
> She herself went for "I'm not giving up a friend' to giving up her friend in order to better her marriage.
> 
> *Do you know for sure? Have you checked her phone records or anything? Verified she is doing what she is saying? or does she just tell you that she gave him up and you believe her?? Cheaters are liars and words mean nothing. All actions...what are her actions saying? And talking with you and "getting along" is just talking. If she really felt as things were getting better as you do, you would have had sex by now. But its just talk. And will be for years....*
> 
> Anyhow that is why I'm OK with it because I wen in knowing it'd be a long process to flip the dynamics of our marriage AND create a much better sex life.... because her and I will be more deeply connected and tied together in going through a correction process. Communication is open.
> 
> *Nope. Not while she still in in contact with OM. Your "communication" with her is just talk. If she understands sex is the be all end all for your marriage and you gave her a time frame...well then why no sex yet? *
> 
> 
> I know all of you want RESULTS and now... there are RESULTS just not sex yet but it too will come... its inevitable.
> 
> *Not with OM in the picture*
> 
> I didn't just pull this all out of a the hat its based on solid very research. I wanted a different and better marriage. That takes a long time.
> 
> *When BOTH spouses are working at it. Not just one person. *


----------



## Maricha75

Who the hell is "Calle Zorro"? I looked the guy up and it's funny... I checked out his site. He talks about sexless marriages, but I saw NOT ONE reference to his method getting someone *OUT OF AN AFFAIR!* His method is to be a nice guy... nice them back.. Nice, nice, nice, nice, nice. And it's a load of nonsense. Funny, now that I think about it... his words sound remarkably like yours, T2... I mean right down to the "I have done a lot of research, talked to a lot of women..." You wouldn't happen to be Calle Zorro would you? I mean, after all, we DID suggest to you in your last thread to put it all out there, on a website or something.. Hmmmmmmm....

Anyway, nice might work when infidelity isn't involved, but i guarantee, nice WILL NOT WORK when one is cheating. PERIOD!


----------



## vi_bride04

Infidelity is like no other marital problem...it's a beast unlike any other and can't be "niced" away. 

Not taking a hard stance with cheating will only have the same exact outcome as you have experienced for the past 3 years.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

As far as I know through verification she has cut out communicating with the OM for at least four days straight... she does not work with him in fact she claims they have not seen each other personally in months... strictly texts.


Modified nice may just work. Why do you all feel it wont?


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> As far as I know through verification she has cut out communicating with the OM for at least four days straight... she does not work with him in fact she claims they have not seen each other personally in months... strictly texts.
> 
> 
> Modified nice may just work. Why do you all feel it wont?


*sigh* For the millionth (it seems like) time.... NICE DOES NOT GET ANYONE OUT OF AN AFFAIR!!! NO ONE!


----------



## vi_bride04

She claims, huh? Nice!! Well glad you got that issue resolved with the OM and he is out of the picture for certain....


----------



## Maricha75

vi_bride04 said:


> She claims, huh? Nice!! Well glad you got that issue resolved with the OM and he is out of the picture for certain....


Whoa, wait! I missed that...and I even quoted it! LOL 

T2, you say they don't work together... but you also said she has a side business that he is a part of... so which is it? They don't work together? Or they have this side business they are both a part of? :scratchhead:



Trying2figureitout said:


> Yes over 10,000 texts a year between them for three years.
> 
> Who's to say she hasn't given him up.. her actions this week say otherwise.
> 
> He was a workout buddy but no longer goes to that gym. No other activities that shes mentioned.
> 
> *He does help her... sell stuff. She has a viable side business*


----------



## Entropy3000

Trying2figureitout said:


> As far as I know through verification she has cut out communicating with the OM for at least four days straight... she does not work with him in fact *she claims* they have not seen each other personally in months... strictly texts.
> 
> 
> Modified nice may just work. Why do you all feel it wont?


Experience in marriage and life. Your approach has been failing for years. What ,akes you think it could possibly work? Besides what man want a woman after her abuse runs its course? You are either pulling our legs or you are getting some staisfaction over being abused.

You are delusional in that you feel you have some method that others might follow. Even if that miracle happens which it will not in reality. You may post that it has. What man would wait out an affair with another man like this?


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> If you turned off emotions for your spouse and you developed a way to cope by finding a confidant. Then your spouse threatened divorce or you must have sex without changing into a person you could love again.... how would you feel?


 See this is another example of you being dishonest with yourself. First you call her affair partner a "confidant". Second you say that most of us are telling you to divorce is she does not have sex with you when in truth we are telling you to divorce if she does not commit to you to cut off all contact with the her affair partner. If you change your above question to correctly reflect these facts, your above statement would sound ridiculous even to you. Here is what it would have looked like "If you turned off emotions for your spouse and you developed a way to cope by finding an affair partner. Then your spouse threatened divorce if you did not commit to cutting off all contact with the affair partner without changing into a person you could love again.... how would you feel?"

The answer to the truthfully worded question would be that he finally became someone that demands respect. Respect is not given, it is earned, and she cannot be in love with someone that she does not respect. Thus you would be changing into a person that she could love again.


----------



## justbidingtime

Has she ever asked you to train/go to the gym with her? I doubt he has "changed" gyms unless he broke off the affair and is back with his girlfriend. This is just a fact, no one changes gyms just for the heck of it when they have their AP there.

Heck I am the one who does not think EA's are so bad in 90% of the cases...... Of course when there are 1,000's upon 1,000's all the while you're in a sexless marriage after the ILYBNILWY speech from a cold, distant, heartless woman, then you are in the 10%........

Your wife wants her space and a lot of it, spends as little time as she can with you, has work, GNO, Gym, texts continually and then goes to bed @ 8:00 pm.......

Cant you read the signs.... I'm sure I've said it before..... Hit the *"talk to a live counselor" * button now and talk this out. Maybe a professional can help.


----------



## Acabado

NC for four days. Well... thats improvement, somehow. Better than it was four days ago, that's for sure.
Let's wait for 1 month whether she changes her frame of mind and behavior or wether she's just biding her time untill another source of validations shime in.

My take?
Stop talking to her about the relationship, your feelings, your interests... unless she ask. Start showing her you will be better and happier whether she joins or not. Focus on yourself (180). You can taylor it. Focus in self improvement, totaly unrelated to the marriage. You have been married for so long it's natural a good deal of your sense of self is simply the role of being parent and husband but very little as individual. You basically identify yourself just as a husband. Have you ever seen how depressed some people get when they have forced to retire? You can wish to have a happy marriage all you want but unless you can envision a happy life as a divorced father you will fail. Because she has no doubts you will be there forever in case she needs you (as coparent, roomate, handyman, caretaker, weird relative). She can't grasp the idea you have the balls to leave her. Totally for granted. Playing with the used toy has no appeal for her anymore so she keep it in a box in the garage.

I think it's not a bad idea telling her you plan of having plenty of sex and very plugged partner mid 2013 and let it that way. No more explanations. Just prepare yourself for the dating scene, getting in shape, taking care of your appearance, purchasing the latest gadget, new clothes, practicing some flirting (no need to hide it), improving your chances to get some damm. Comply with the schedule for your childrens and no more. Start hanging out. Your schedule, your fun, your plans...

Only when she "knows" you already had enough she will take a pause to rethink what she's foing.


----------



## Entropy3000

justbidingtime said:


> Has she ever asked you to train/go to the gym with her? I doubt he has "changed" gyms unless he broke off the affair and is back with his girlfriend. This is just a fact, no one changes gyms just for the heck of it when they have their AP there.
> 
> Heck I am the one who does not think EA's are so bad in 90% of the cases...... Of course when there are 1,000's upon 1,000's all the while you're in a sexless marriage after the ILYBNILWY speech from a cold, distant, heartless woman, then you are in the 10%........
> 
> Your wife wants her space and a lot of it, spends as little time as she can with you, has work, GNO, Gym, texts continually and then goes to bed @ 8:00 pm.......
> 
> Cant you read the signs.... I'm sure I've said it before..... Hit the *"talk to a live counselor" * button now and talk this out. Maybe a professional can help.


His wife is leading another life that does not include him. Enough said.

At this point a counselor is not likely to hurt.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Clarification...

She does not work with him or according to her he has changed gyms. He finds buyers evidently with her hobby and side business. I don't think its much as I know how much product she produces and where she sells it normally. So i believe its a casual I may have some people interested in your stuff... she also has a FB page about it. I never really got how he would 'help' her sell stuff i think it was likely a cover story to explain the relationship I've also been told she gives him advice with his business which is plausible based on her talents.

So its not by any means a huge business partnership more of a way of making a little extra side cash through a hobby.

Now she has maintained no texts to him either way and less overall texts to anyone else besides work or family.

I notice her phone is out in plain sight more also.

She is doing the right things even more than i expected based on what she said... so I'll let her make the necessary changes.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Clarification...
> 
> She does not work with him or according to her he has changed gyms. He finds buyers evidently with her hobby and side business. I don't think its much as I know how much product she produces and where she sells it normally. So i believe its a casual I may have some people interested in your stuff... she also has a FB page about it. I never really got how he would 'help' her sell stuff i think it was likely a cover story to explain the relationship I've also been told she gives him advice with his business which is plausible based on her talents.
> 
> So its not by any means a huge business partnership more of a way of making a little extra side cash through a hobby.
> 
> Now she has maintained no texts to him either way and less overall texts to anyone else besides work or family.
> 
> I notice her phone is out in plain sight more also.
> 
> She is doing the right things even more than i expected based on what she said... so I'll let her make the necessary changes.


Did you even read what you just wrote? You rationalize her involvement with him. And the fact that her phone is out in plain sight more? HA! My husband had is out in plain sight as well. He didn't think I would care to look at it. He didn't think I would care about the texts. He never put a password on it. Do you know WHY she likely keeps it in plain sight now? Because she KNOWS YOU WON'T CHECK IT!! As I stated... you can give the advice, but are too scared to take the same advice, yourself! Do you even know if she accesses Facebook or any other chat programs on her cell? Do you know if she even HAS any other chat programs on it? Very easy to hide contact that way. Trust me, I DID it. But, since you won't check, you won't know...


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## vi_bride04

What she probably does is tell OM...I'm going to be with BH from this time to this time. I'll text you when I'm leaving. 

So if she has nothing to worry about (ie, receiving a text) she can maintain the appearance of nothing going on b/c she knows you are not going to check her phone.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Lets assume this scenario....

My wife has a texting addiction "self-described"
She has a tired issue.. as evidenced for life.

Her and I had issues three years ago... she hooked up with this guy mainly because they worked out together in a group with others and ended up having similar interests. Both were in committed relationships and he was feeding her texting addiction likely offering her some emotional support. It became habit forming. I don't believe it went physical but can't rule it out.

Once presented clearly with a description of an Emotional Affair she realized he damage it caused and ended it.

As for our sex life... shes been injured so that's part of it also I have specified a certain aspect of it and told her I'm willing to wait until she feels connected. But there is a deadline as to how long I am willing to wait.

I believe this is the scenario I am in. I do not believe it was any more than a friendship that morphed into a text buddy taking up way too much of her time. She wants to remain married and understands what we are working towards. I see her trying to reconnect everyday... sex will come.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> Lets assume this scenario....
> 
> My wife has a texting addiction "self-described"
> She has a tired issue.. as evidenced for life.
> 
> Her and I had issues three years ago... she hooked up with this guy mainly because they worked out together in a group with others and ended up having similar interests. Both were in committed relationships and he was feeding her texting addiction likely offering her some emotional support. It became habit forming. I don't believe it went physical but can't rule it out.
> 
> Once presented clearly with a description of an Emotional Affair she realized he damage it caused and ended it.
> 
> As for our sex life... shes been injured so that's part of it also I have specified a certain aspect of it and told her I'm willing to wait until she feels connected. But there is a deadline as to how long I am willing to wait.
> 
> I believe this is the scenario I am in. I do not believe it was any more than a friendship that morphed into a text buddy taking up way too much of her time. She wants to remain married and understands what we are working towards. I see her trying to reconnect everyday... sex will come.


You're DELUSIONAL!!!!!! You change the story or at least try and make it malleable, yet refuse to take decisive action. You just continue to make excuses. 

Texting addiction, group of people working out (as opposed to one on one, which is what it was), too injured for sex (but can work out for 2 hours a day), sleep deprived, no idea what an EA is.......

HIT THE BUTTON!!!!!!!! Get help.......


----------



## LovesHerMan

If everything is going so well and according to your plan, why are you posting on TAM?


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Lets assume this scenario....
> 
> My wife has a texting addiction "self-described"
> She has a tired issue.. as evidenced for life.


But not too tired to GO OUT WITH HER FRIENDS!
But not too tired to GO WORK OUT AT THE GYM.
SHE WAS AVOIDING CONTACT WITH YOU!




Trying2figureitout said:


> Her and I had issues three years ago...* she hooked up with this guy* mainly because they worked out together in a group with others and ended up having similar interests. Both were in committed relationships and he was feeding her texting addiction likely offering her some emotional support. It became habit forming. I don't believe it went physical but can't rule it out.


Read those words, T2, read them: SHE HOOKED UP WITH THIS GUY. SHE CHEATED. You can't keep rewriting it to get a different outcome. She cheated, you have already acknowledged it.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Once presented clearly with a description of an Emotional Affair she realized she damage it caused and ended it.


I hope, for your sanity, you are correct that she ended it. But regardless, she has acknowledged it, IF indeed this statement is correct.



Trying2figureitout said:


> As for our sex life... shes been injured so that's part of it also I have specified a certain aspect of it and told her I'm willing to wait until she feels connected. But there is a deadline as to how long I am willing to wait.


T2, I was injured in a car accident. I fractured and dislocated my hip. I was in the hospital and rehab for a total of about one month. After rehab, I had physical therapy at home for about 3-4 more months. During this time, I was on hip precautions. In addition to hip precautions, I was on toe-touch weight bearing. I couldn't put weight on that foot/leg/hip. I was not allowed to bend that hip more than the amount necessary to sit in my RAISED wheelchair, to use a commode, and to sit on my shower chair. Yea, very disgusting description, I know. My point is that it was only TWO MONTHS, MAYBE three where we had no sex. We were STILL intimate in other ways... because we WANTED EACH OTHER. Get it? You are using the excuse she gave you...and ACCEPTING it... for a FULL YEAR! 

Honestly, I really don't care about the sexual aspect of your marriage. I'm getting pissed off because you seem to think that she couldn't connect with you during this time in other ways. EXCUSES! She connected JUST FINE with the OM. She connected JUST FINE with her friends. She pushed you to the bottom of her list BECAUSE YOU ALLOWED IT! YOU did! This is about YOU standing up and BEING A MAN, NOT the word my dad used when I told him about your situation, as you posted it. And my dad does NOT use that word lightly! Let's just say that the NICE way to say it is CUCKOLD! You, sir, have been playing the part of a cuckold.... because YOU let her do it!



Trying2figureitout said:


> I believe this is the scenario I am in. I do not believe it was any more than a friendship that morphed into a text buddy taking up way too much of her time. She wants to remain married and understands what we are working towards. I see her trying to reconnect everyday... sex will come.


No, what started as a friendship morphed into an affair, not a "texting buddy". And, of course she wants to remain married... you won't check up on her when she is doing things she shouldn't be doing... who WOULDN'T want to be married to someone like that, and be able to do whatever they want?


----------



## Maricha75

lovesherman said:


> If everything is going so well and according to your plan, why are you posting on TAM?


YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I occasionally post on TAM because TAM is a place to share life stories and get and give advice.

Only when there are events that warrant an update do I post.

I feel uncovering the OM and ending that relationship is a pretty big step in our recovery. I'm sure other sexless people follow my threads with a certain curiosity so I share when I can.

I know my wife "cheated" she would not have ended it otherwise instead she would have defended him and proved to me it wasn't cheating in some form. Everyone makes mistakes.

As for my sexlife with her its been low and now sexless but past results are not a guarantee of future results. I believe her and i now have a better understanding of what each of us needs. There are still a few minor issues we need to address but we will. The bottom line is her and I will settle into a workable sexlife at some point. We will not be sexless.

I will enjoy the day when I can post it worked and give you all a well documented success story about recovery from sexlessness and from emotional infidelity. I feel her and I are probably going to be recovered within the next couple months based on current events. In reality it resolves when it resolves.


----------



## TBT

Seeing as you're headed down this path anyway,I want to wish you the best.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
You hold yourself up as the guy who cracked the code. The reality is:
- you don't even want to know if your wife had a PA, is still having a PA
- you describe all this as a high minded refusal to take responsibility for her choices

In reality you have no confidence the marriage will survive if you enforce any boundaries. 

Stop describing fear as brilliance.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I feel uncovering the OM and ending that relationship is a pretty big step in our recovery.


Yes, I will accept that uncovering it and ending it WOULD be a big step.... IF you were actually verifying that she has ZERO contact. But the fact is, you don't verify because you say she has "proven she can be trusted"  



Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm sure other sexless people follow my threads with a certain curiosity so I share when I can.


They probably are.... until they get to the parts where you admit she has been cheating and you let her modify the choices given. Then they all start believing the same thing we have been telling you.



Trying2figureitout said:


> I know my wife "cheated" she would not have ended it otherwise instead she would have defended him and proved to me it wasn't cheating in some form.


Do me a favor... don't say she "cheated"... it's not "cheated"... it is CHEATED. No quotes. She has been getting her needs met by someone other than the man who SHOULD have been meeting those needs all along... She CHEATED. I CHEATED. I didn't "cheat"... by using quotes, that invalidates the feelings of ALL the other betrayed spouses who caught their husbands and wives in emotional AFFAIRS. She was, or is, CHEATING, not "cheating". And she DID defend... when she said "I won't give up a friend"... and YOU backed DOWN!




Trying2figureitout said:


> Everyone makes mistakes.


Cheating isn't a mistake... cheating is a choice... a conscious choice she made for THREE YEARS.



Trying2figureitout said:


> As for my sexlife with her its been low and now sexless but past results are not a guarantee of future results. *I believe her* and i now have a better understanding of what each of us needs. There are still a few minor issues we need to address but we will. The bottom line is her and I will settle into a workable sexlife *at some point.* We will not be sexless.


Dude, this really isn't about having a sexless marriage. It's about having a lying, cheating spouse...and you choose to believe every word she says... rather than verify the words she speaks, you choose to blindly trust her. Dude, my husband would be an IDIOT to blindly trust me. And I would be an IDIOT to blindly trust HIM. You CAN'T blindly trust a cheater. They are not trustworthy. They/we are LIARS. We manipulate to get what we want. It is only when we are FORCED out of the affair, when we are really FORCED to see what we have done that we can truly begin to rebuild that trust... IF our spouses are willing to do so. Yes, I throw myself into that group because I DID lie, I DID manipulate. I DID talk a good game... and it wasn't until I was given the clear choice, and NOT MODIFIED, did anything change. YOU CANNOT NICE HER OUT OF IT. Whether you believe it or not, complacency in this just encourages her to do it again. And yes, from what you have said here, you are trying to "nice" her out. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> I will enjoy the day when I can post it worked and give you all a well documented success story about recovery from sexlessness and from emotional infidelity. I feel her and I are probably going to be recovered within the next couple months based on current events. In reality it resolves when it resolves.


Heh. Doubtful. But feel free to believe whatever you wish. "it resolves when it resolves".... so, see you in about 10 more years, with the same story? :scratchhead:


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> You hold yourself up as the guy who cracked the code. The reality is:
> - you don't even want to know if your wife had a PA, is still having a PA
> - you describe all this as a high minded refusal to take responsibility for her choices
> 
> In reality you have no confidence the marriage will survive if you enforce any boundaries.
> 
> Stop describing fear as brilliance.


There is no fear... I have been living the life as a single for three years... it would be easier for me to live alone. I am capable of self-support. Why do I stay? For better for worse... I see my situation as temporary and owe my wife my best. Many marriages go through similar lulls . 

I think my best will be good enough and that my communication has been impact-full and targeted enough to affect the needed change her and I can both live with from here on out.

Remember her and I have a checkpoint in January... I expect that to go well.

I haven't failed until I divorce her... I doubt she want that as I'm her best option.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I know my wife "cheated" she would not have ended it otherwise instead she would have defended him and proved to me it wasn't cheating in some form.


 Again your are being dishonest with yourself. Reading what she told you in the first post of this thread, she did defend him and say that it was not cheating. When you told her that she had to make a choice between you and the other man you stated that "She never made a choice and she never DENIED it was an affair... so the next morning I asked if she had any concerns... she said NO but I am not giving up a friend. I'll text him less. Well I decided to accept that as we have been actually doing really well besides sex lately." 

As you can read above, she has never told you that she would cut off all contact with her affair partner, and you have refused to ask her to confirm this, yet you still try to claim victory that she has because you have not seen any texts for 4 days; this while also acknowledging that she could have taken it underground. If she really was committed to cutting off all contact with her affair partner, not only would you not be afraid to ask her, but she would be volunteering to tell you so that you would know that she was making an effort to save the marraige.

BTW, ordering the book "Not Just Friends" is not the same thing as reading the book. Read it now and you will see how not verifying no contact with her affair partner is wrong headed.


----------



## warlock07

Trying2figureitout said:


> There is no fear... I have been living the life as a single for three years...


So what is stopping you from digging down further and find the full extent of the affair ? Denial ? 

Or are you ok even if she has PA but recommitts to the marriage

This will probably be my last post since you probably won't listen but please do yourself a favor and find out the full extent of her affair. Snoop if you have to. VAR her car if you have to. You won't be doing that for the rest of your marriage. Stop the snooping once you find out that you know all that you need. Then you can make proper decisions to end or continue the marriage, whatever it is. Living in denial will only prolong the pain..

Man. are you dense or what ?


----------



## Acabado

> My wife has a texting addiction "self-described"
> She has a tired issue.. as evidenced for life.


What is she doing about these two issues?


----------



## justbidingtime

warlock07 said:


> So what is stopping you from digging down further and find the full extent of the affair ? Denial ?
> 
> Or are you ok even if she has PA but recommitts to the marriage
> 
> This will probably be my last post since you probably won't listen but please do yourself a favor and find out the full extent of her affair. Snoop if you have to. VAR her car if you have to. You won't be doing that for the rest of your marriage. Stop the snooping once you find out that you know all that you need. Then you can make proper decisions to end or continue the marriage, whatever it is. Living in denial will only prolong the pain..
> 
> Man. are you dense *or what* ?


You don't know T2FIO do you warlock (probably too much time only on CWI)????? He is the best poster on TAM and may be here as a sociological experiment to see how many posters on TAM he can drive over the edge with his brand of lunacy.......


----------



## Maricha75

justbidingtime said:


> You don't know T2FIO do you warlock (probably too much time only on CWI)????? He is the best poster on TAM and may be here as a sociological experiment to see how many posters on TAM he can drive over the edge with his brand of lunacy.......


Heh. Not driving me over the edge.... but I am most DEFINITELY thanking God that my husband isn't like this. I'd go MAD!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

First I don't intend to drive anyone over the edge.

I try to document my thought process so those in similar situations can make their own decisions of what to do.

Many ask why I don't hound my wife and ask her "If she is going NC"

A: I put it in her hands... so far all indications are she ended it.

Unless I see activity that suggests otherwise I believe its resolved.

At some point you have to trust your wife.


I'm in a phase of not bringing anything up... this follows a very intense phase of communicating with her.

My whole plan is FOCUSED communication followed by times of calm and returning to normal. This is critical as it gives everything a chance to sink in to develop permanent change.

My wife won't communicate with him as before because I let her deal with it WITHOUT me getting involved.

She knows the consequences of taking it underground, I will find out if she does.

We are in the final stages of our ultimate reconciliation.... I can't say when but I know its likely soon for various reasons. 

Anyhow, I'm sure once I resolve my marriage there will still be those yelling well you shouldn't have done it that way... I'll laugh because this is exactly the way that works.

For those wishing me luck ... I appreciate it luck is always good.

things usually work out for me I see my marriage as no different... sexlessness and infidelity are both temporary setbacks.

A sexual mutually supported better an happy marriage is the goal. One hardened by going through this process.

May not work for everyone.... but it will work for me.
Maricha a wife like you would drive me crazy... so feelings mutual. Although I do appreciate you view being a CHEATER and all. Perhaps you do have insight i can use.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> First I don't intend to drive anyone over the edge.
> 
> I try to document my thought process so those in similar situations can make their own decisions of what to do.


They do make their own decisions... the ones that work. Tried and true.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Many ask why I don't hound my wife and ask her "If she is going NC"
> 
> A: I put it in her hands... so far all indications are she ended it.
> 
> Unless I see activity that suggests otherwise I believe its resolved.
> 
> At some point you have to trust your wife.


1. We tell you "trust but verify" And that is what counselors who specialize in infidelity say to do. They ALL tell the betrayed to VERIFY... unless they are a horrible marriage counselor, only in it for the money.

2. You NEVER trust IMMEDIATELY after discovery. Ever.




Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm in a phase of not bringing anything up... this follows a very intense phase of communicating with her.
> 
> My whole plan is FOCUSED communication followed by times of calm and returning to normal. This is critical as it gives everything a chance to sink in to develop permanent change.


Not saying to keep bringing everything up. Just saying you can't trust her immediately. That trust needs to be EARNED back. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> My wife won't communicate with him as before because I let her deal with it WITHOUT me getting involved.
> 
> She knows the consequences of taking it underground, I will find out if she does.


What consequences? Waiting it out a few more years?



Trying2figureitout said:


> We are in the final stages of our ultimate reconciliation.... I can't say when but I know its likely soon for various reasons.
> 
> Anyhow, I'm sure once I resolve my marriage there will still be those yelling well you shouldn't have done it that way... I'll laugh because this is exactly the way that works.


Whatever you say....



Trying2figureitout said:


> For those wishing me luck ... I appreciate it luck is always good.
> 
> things usually work out for me I see my marriage as no different... sexlessness and *infidelity* are both *temporary setbacks*.


WTH???? How in the world can you view infidelity as a "temporary setback"??? :scratchhead:



Trying2figureitout said:


> A sexual mutually supported better an happy marriage is the goal. One hardened by going through this process.
> 
> May not work for everyone.... but it will work for me.


Sorry... just not seeing it.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Maricha a wife like you would drive me crazy... so feelings mutual. Although I do appreciate you view being a CHEATER and all. Perhaps you do have insight i can use.


T2, I drive my husband crazy, so that's nothing new. The difference is... I drive him crazy in a GOOD way (most of the time )... as for using my insight... you have yet to use the good advice given by any of us. I told you how your wife will most likely behave. You refuse to acknowledge it. Keep your head buried in the sand. As you said before: your life, your choice.


----------



## Maricha75

Look, T2, while I think the way you are going about this is delusional, at best... I do hope you can get some resolution, soon. I hope I am wrong. I really do. But seriously, if you were to go back and read the posts you have written, and if someone else had written them, you would be giving that poster the EXACT same advice we have all been giving you. I know it's hard when it is your own marriage on the line. That's why you need to be quick and decisive...firm. You can't waver, not even a little bit. If you do, it is a sign of weakness. And, I can promise that a cheater can spot that weakness and use that as a loophole. I offer my advice, as the cheater I have been, so that you know how the cheater's mind works. This is why I say that all the guiding and "niceness" won't cut it. But, I do wish you the best. I really do. Good luck. You are certainly going to need it.... and STOP accepting her excuses... for your OWN sanity.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
Your focused communication is anything but. 

Note how often you reach for the 'she is too tired for sex' excuse. 
- 10 hours per week at the gym
- 20-40 texts a day with the hot workout partner 
- girls night out
- weekends 

I bet you say 'Babe I know you are tired'. 

That is not supportive, it's encouraging her to continue to lie to your face. 

As for fear - we both know everyone is aware you are the main breadwinner. We know you can pay your bills. This isn't about that. 

Your January check point - be real - 3 years into this and you still have a few little issues to work out. You will always have issues to work out. 

Everyone on here has issues with their spouses. The sexless folks are the ones whose wives dislike having sex with them. If that is what you mean by a few issues to iron out - good luck.

Where do you think her 'desire' for you is going to come from?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> Your focused communication is anything but.
> 
> Note how often you reach for the 'she is too tired for sex' excuse.
> - 10 hours per week at the gym
> - 20-40 texts a day with the hot workout partner
> - girls night out
> - weekends
> 
> I bet you say 'Babe I know you are tired'.
> 
> That is not supportive, it's encouraging her to continue to lie to your face.
> 
> As for fear - we both know everyone is aware you are the main breadwinner. We know you can pay your bills. This isn't about that.
> 
> Your January check point - be real - 3 years into this and you still have a few little issues to work out. You will always have issues to work out.
> 
> Everyone on here has issues with their spouses. The sexless folks are the ones whose wives dislike having sex with them. If that is what you mean by a few issues to iron out - good luck.
> 
> Where do you think her 'desire' for you is going to come from?


Honestly Mem,

Its already there... she has had plenty of chances to leave me. She doesn't. 

Once we return to sex the chemicals will help with the bonding... right now since we don't its just not there so all we do is without sex to create the feelings of closeness.

Again unless you've been in a sexless marriage a lot of your advice is under the assumption sex is fully desired by both partners and to concentrate on your spouse.

In a sexless marriage obviously the "desire' is on hold. In my wife's case I'm fairly certain it was a way to hold power over me. She was pretty upset with me. The sex we had during this period wasn't good being under the stress of it all and her not into it.

So taking a long break is actually good... I no longer feel stressed because I see her reactions to everything over the past three years. When we return to sex it'll be good and connected. For that I am willing to wait. So is she. We both want to create a better marriage. We are both capable of doing that. We both understand regular connected sex is part of that marriage.

It will happen. I will not accept 'bread crumbs' or duty/pity sex . Rather have none than that.

It is amazing though how some spouses think. I will never truly understand how a spouse can neglect another for so long. It all seems relatively straight forward but in just about every marriage it isn't.. weird.

Keep this in mind.. had I not steadfastly identified my needs... I'm pretty sure I'd be having lame sex with my wife under her terms (like before).... that is not worth it for me been there done that.... I want much better our sex life needed fixed like many other things i our marriage... sex is NO DIFFERENT. She knows exactly what I need and its her choice whether to provide it or not. In the end she will because what I ask is reasonable. She will end the impasse.

Pretty much all in or none. Signs are we will end up all-in because that is our best scenario.
Will take time to get there. We are talking a dramatic shift just like the ones that already happenned our marraige. Our sex life will also change for the better.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Look, T2, while I think the way you are going about this is delusional, at best... I do hope you can get some resolution, soon. I hope I am wrong. I really do. But seriously, if you were to go back and read the posts you have written, and if someone else had written them, you would be giving that poster the EXACT same advice we have all been giving you. I know it's hard when it is your own marriage on the line. That's why you need to be quick and decisive...firm. You can't waver, not even a little bit. If you do, it is a sign of weakness. And, I can promise that a cheater can spot that weakness and use that as a loophole. I offer my advice, as the cheater I have been, so that you know how the cheater's mind works. This is why I say that all the guiding and "niceness" won't cut it. But, I do wish you the best. I really do. Good luck. You are certainly going to need it.... and STOP accepting her excuses... for your OWN sanity.


Thanks,
I do understand your view living it and thank you for your input. I don't feel my wife is predisposed to cheating though. So I think what I am doing will work on her.

I believe that once my wife realized what she was doing was cheating she realized it needed to stop. Up until then she was likely unaware and simply saw it as a friendship. Took a while to get her to see it as anything but a friendship and that it was destroying her marriage. It was presenting it in the way that made her realize it. Not he first time I mentioned EA to her... took a while to sink in.

Not the first time I mentioned a better "normal' sex life to her... it also will sink in.

She does not want to destroy our marriage. I give her credit she ended it on her own.

I could be delusional... sexless marriage is a mental disorder. I don't always feel sane. But in the end I'm doing things right... I do love my wife and will work to protect my marriage. My methods are mine... if they work then there is another way to fix sexless marriages.


----------



## justbidingtime

What your wife is T2FIO and I hate to break this to you...... She IS NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU..... She has not done a single thing since the ILYBNILWY to say otherwise. Everything you have taken as a sign she`s coming around is only in your head. There has not been a single post you have made in the past year that says otherwise. Not a single thing she has done or said..... I've asked you and you never answer. You don't hug, kiss, have long walks, discuss future plans and hopes and dreams. And if you do, I won't believe as you've skirted those questions for so long.

The 3-4 year recovery period you maybe right about, but as said the most important part of it is that it includes plenty of sex and intimate bonding.

You feed us here on TAM cr&p and claim you are close. As said I think your wife is a cruel, spiteful uncaring shrew, and whether you were responsible for her being that I can only surmise.

You then state what a great catch you are. If that is the case, don't you owe it to you and your wife to set her free, because she's been looking for a replacement for quite sometime now, and the lucky lady who will be the next Mrs. T2FIO?

I miss the old T2FIO who sent emails to his wife demanding sex and a resolution, all the while a cuckold, as opposed to T2FIO 2.0, who spins his wheels more and more all the while digging a deeper hole and remaining a cuckold.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> What your wife is T2FIO and I hate to break this to you...... She IS NOT IN LOVE WITH YOU..... She has not done a single thing since the ILYBNILWY to say otherwise. Everything you have taken as a sign shes coming around is only in your head. There has not been a single post you have made in the past year that says otherwise. Not a single thing she has done or said..... I've asked you and you never answer. You don't hug, kiss, have long walks, discuss future plans and hopes and dreams. And if you do, I won't believe as you've skirted that question for so long.
> 
> The 3-4 year recovery period you maybe right about, but as said it includes plenty of sex and intimate bonding.
> 
> You feed us here on TAM cr&p and claim you are close. As said I think your wife is a cruel, spiteful uncaring shrew, and whether you were responsible or her being that I can only surmise.
> 
> You then state what a great catch you are. If that is the case, don't you owe it to you and your wife to set her free, because she's been looking for a replacement for quite sometime now, and the lucky lady who will be the next Mrs. T2FIO?
> 
> I miss the old T2FIO who sent emails to his wife demanding sex and a resolution, all the while a cuckold, as opposed to T2FIO 2.0, who spins his wheels more and more all the while digging a deeper hole.


We do take long walks in fact she joined me on one last weekend because no one else wanted to go (Kids) ended up we all went on a six mile hike.

We hug usually me starting it but her responding to it.

She stated recently she "Loves me" without any conditions attached.

Shes always talking about future plans.

She dropped a friend (after steadfastly opposing) to save our marriage on her own.

You have to keep in mind her and I were never really "lovey-dovey" as some couples are... we get along very well, and sex/intimacy was the primary physical connection mostly always at night. It missing has created a big issue. I for many years was "satisfied" with low sex... not anymore. I need something out of going through this.

She goes out of her way to talk to me if she were "checked out" she wouldn't bother... this is not in my head.

She texts me.

She has never said she does not like sex with me... in fact she says she likes it.

She has been allowing some intimacy back in our life and enjoying it.

Her talking a lot is her trying to reconnect so she feels connected and sexual again towards me. We are interacting normally and sex will be part of that normal interaction. If I successfully solve this I will be about the only person she ever let up a grudge against in her life. Normally you are written off by her.

I know you all feel its been too long... I disagree, its been long enough to allow other changes to occur that will lead us to a connected sex life. Surviving a difficult period together makes you more connected.

I will not accept what was... just what should be. I will not go through this process without a total and complete resolution to out marriage including SEX.

Its not like I don't know her I've been with her 23 years. I also know what our marriage needs to look like to be sustainable. everyday I get closer to that.

So it'll resolve when it resolves and not a moment sooner... her and I are on the path to resolution and that's a good thing. WE too will resolve things in between year 3 and 4. This week marks year 3 since ILYNILWY.

The process can be messy, unusual and downright odd...but in the end its the results that count.

If I pull off a better marriage with much more sex and a happy wife... my plan works.
MY plan has not failed still in progress I get closer to the solution every day.

My situation will help others in similar ones. Sexless marriages are temporary states.. if you work at resolving them. I'm confident I have been implementing a solution.

Many of you discount how hard it is on a woman to feel connected... it takes time. Now that OM is out she'll speed things up.


----------



## vi_bride04

I notice you project alot of how you feel and think onto your wife and that she feels the exact same way.

I don't think she does. I think she is just agreeing with you to keep you quiet and out of her hair so she can continue to cheat.

You have alot of assumptions about her, her feelings, what she thinks and what her actions truly are. 

How can you verify her words with her actions?? Why do you not want to dig any deeper??

Please quit referring to your marriage as sexless. Its not. The lack of sex is the by product of your wife being unfaithful. Her lack of desire is because she is investing so heavily in the OM. 

And if you really feel its just a "sexless" marriage...why have you not gone to a qualified marriage/sex counselor?? Usually sex issues cannot be resolved without a qualified professional.


----------



## justbidingtime

It`s sexless very simply because she does not want to have sex with T2FIO. Some people are just not into sex and make it loud and clear and may still be devoted and in love with their spouse, but sex is just empty or means very little to them and is so far down the list that they do not recognize the importance to the other spouse.

T2FIO`s spouse knows what it means (read his posts from last years and what he wrote her if he did not delete the threads) and has still not done anything in over a year and am sure that the 9X`s prior is exaggerated. 

Whether she is not overly sexual by nature I don`t know. What I do know is she is happy with a roof over her head, at least one EA (if not more) on the side, plenty of leeway and room to do whatever she wants and when and an intact family at home.

Maybe she is having a PA, maybe not..... The point is everything is under her set of rules, wants and needs.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> I notice you project alot of how you feel and think onto your wife and that she feels the exact same way.
> 
> I don't think she does. I think she is just agreeing with you to keep you quiet and out of her hair so she can continue to cheat.
> 
> You have alot of assumptions about her, her feelings, what she thinks and what her actions truly are.
> 
> How can you verify her words with her actions?? Why do you not want to dig any deeper??
> 
> Please quit referring to your marriage as sexless. Its not. The lack of sex is the by product of your wife being unfaithful. Her lack of desire is because she is investing so heavily in the OM.
> 
> And if you really feel its just a "sexless" marriage...why have you not gone to a qualified marriage/sex counselor?? Usually sex issues cannot be resolved without a qualified professional.


You are likely right about the OM being the root cause but by definition we are in a sexless marriage... so I can use that.

My wife's NEEDS were met between myself and the OM... she doesn't need sex anymore much. That much is pretty obvious over our entire low sex marriage.

Now that the OM is out.. she will need to meet my sexual NEEDS to continue to get her non-sexual NEEDS met. That's the way it works in many marriages. Cheating throws it all out of whack.

Pretty simple...

I have the high ground. She will not chance a repeat of infidelity.

I have a counselor of sorts..my wife wont get educated on any of this including counseling.


----------



## vi_bride04

How have you verified for 100%that the OM is out of the picture?


----------



## daisygirl 41

My husband ended his affair himself. It was his choice.
The trust is returning, but I verify it! There is nothing wrong with that and he is happy with the complete transparency we now have.
There is NO SUCH THING as blind trust when an affair has occurred!
She gave up that right when she cheated on you.
What are you afraid of I wonder?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> How have you verified for 100%that the OM is out of the picture?


NO texts for 5 days between them...

I Know that's not good enough for you all. Its good enough for me.

So I guess its not 100% verification... nothing is.

Even if she said she "Ended it" that means nothing coming from a cheater. Words mean NOTHING!

Actions speak louder than words.

Her actions indicate she ended it... no other way to "verify" other than trailing her with a PI 24/7

At some point you just trust your gut...and your spouse. She has been given a chance.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> You are likely right about the OM being the root cause but by definition we are in a sexless marriage... so I can use that.
> 
> *My wife's NEEDS were met between myself and the OM... she doesn't need sex anymore much. That much is pretty obvious over our entire low sex marriage.*
> 
> Now that the OM is out.. she will need to meet my sexual NEEDS to continue to get her non-sexual NEEDS met. That's the way it works in many marriages. Cheating throws it all out of whack.
> 
> Pretty simple...
> 
> I have the high ground. She will not chance a repeat of infidelity.
> 
> I have a counselor of sorts..*my wife wont get educated on any of this including counseling*.


T2FIO, when I started reading your posts over a year ago you claimed you were going to change this sexless marriage and were almost there. Many saw that as a difficult endeavour to start with. It won't change now either.....

The fact she too refuses counseling further verifies how fruitless this all is.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> T2FIO, when I started reading your posts over a year ago you claimed you were going to change this sexless marriage and were almost there. Many saw that as a difficult endeavour to start with. It won't change now either.....
> 
> The fact she too refuses counseling further verifies how fruitless this all is.



I will end my sexless marriage either by resolving it or not. A year later things have changed dramatically and my wife and I are closer than ever to a solution.

In the past I underestimated he 'hold" the OM had on her. I bought the "friend" excuse. Now I know better. I effectively dealt with it.

now most all roadblocks to recovery are down... my wife and I will return to a sexual marriage THAT WILL BE BETTER THAN EVER.

I firmly believe that. My process took this long BECAUSE I wanted MORE. Not the same... MORE!


You all can laugh now...but I will succeed.

The goal is to not have me to have sex on my mind. That is a tall order.

It will happen and it will be because of the plan. January checkpoint.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> NO texts for 5 days between them...
> .


HOW ARE YOU VERIFYING THEY ARE NOT TEXTING??

Are you looking at the phone bill? Are you checking her phone physically??

How do you know 100% that she has stopped contact?? Still just taking her words as the truth?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

vi_bride04 said:


> HOW ARE YOU VERIFYING THEY ARE NOT TEXTING??
> 
> Are you looking at the phone bill? Are you checking her phone physically??
> 
> How do you know 100% that she has stopped contact?? Still just taking her words as the truth?


He's not. In his eyes, his wife has a problem. T2 told her what was upsetting him, and the rest is up to her to fix it. It's not his responsibility to help his wife through her issues because everyone is an island unto themselves and must work on their own issues. In his eyes, we are all rational actors that know all of the steps needed to self correct when a spouse voices his/her displeasure over an incident...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> He's not. In his eyes, his wife has a problem. T2 told her what was upsetting him, and the rest is up to her to fix it. It's not his responsibility to help his wife through her issues because everyone is an island unto themselves and must work on their own issues. In his eyes, we are all rational actors that know all of the steps needed to self correct when a spouse voices his/her displeasure over an incident...


Exactly!

Finally someone gets it.

Again I go back to my own transformation after ILYNILWY. My wife expressed displeasure and I pretty much immediately responded with dramatic changes. Even stopping drinking that very night....cold turkey as a symbol of my devotion to making our marriage better. To this day I don't drink... don't even have the urge to drink.

I at the time thought to myself, she WAY over-reacted (and lied or exaggerated) but in the end it did not matter... I analyzed myself and knew I could do better as a husband and as a father. I set out to prove her wrong. Everyday I wake up and think...what can I do better today? Everyday.

I also set out to correct all that was flawed in our marriage.

I brought up her overreaction recently... I told her it was her fault for not communicating before hand had she had absolutely NO RIGHT to utter ILYNILWY at all and challenged her on the last three years of misery that came from it. She understood.

My wife is in the same boat now. She has basically pissed me off to the extent she was three years ago actually more. It is now her time to scramble around and figure out what changes she needs to make for our marriage to survive and thrive. I gave her guidelines but am not holding a gun to her head to change... ONLY SHE CAN.

So verification means nothing... CHANGE DOES. I do check phone records and so far she has not contacted him once in five days and neither has he... in my book that shows action and quite a difference from 20-40 texts per day at all times.

Everyone is an island. She knows where I stand and what I'll accept in our marriage.

So if she loves me... she'll find a way to make us both happiest in our marriage and for the benefit of our family. She does love me so we will arrive at a workable solution together in time.

I want it all and willing to risk everything to get what I want. I will only accept a SOLID fix. With every aspect of our marriage fixed and open communication for life.

In the end its easier to fix the wife you have that seeing if the grass is greener.. it isn't.
My wife and I will change enough to make our marriage last and both end up much happier.


----------



## justbidingtime

Wow wow wow..... You have done all this for your wife over three years and not even a sniff. Quit drinking cold-turkey and what in return???? Oh yea she had an AFFAIR!!!!!! Forget everything else you did to change. Heck let's review the threads from 1 year ago and absolutely no success......

Maybe you can refresh the others here about all the other things you did. And what exactly has she done outside shout at you less..... Wow what a wonderful woman.

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!!!!!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> Wow wow wow..... You have done all this for your wife over three years and not even a sniff. Quit drinking cold-turkey and what in return???? Oh yea she had an AFFAIR!!!!!! Forget everything else you did to change. Heck let's review the threads from 1 year ago and absolutely no success......
> 
> Maybe you can refresh the others here about all the other things you did. And what exactly has she done outside shout at you less..... Wow what a wonderful woman.
> 
> GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!!!!!!


..and if I manage to correct my marriage in about three years then what?

Things worth having take work.

In the end the law of reciprocity will hold true.

No doubt in my mind. Its a proven law.

MY entire plan will come out after I resolve my marriage for others to consider as a workable solution to both sexlessness in a marriage and infidelity.

Not counting my birds before they hatch so you'll have to wait for the recap and all the other stuff i never posted.

Its crazy until it actually works..Right?


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
Your last set of posts - show a high degree of sanity. 

If you are "that way" at home - consistently - then you really have changed yourself. 

Since you seem to be in a good place, I will hope that you can fully process this, because without this last bit you will not reach your goal.

You need to convey your assessment of your wife - as a WIFE - in an effective manner. To date, you have allowed her to make the entire conversation about you and your flaws. 

Until that stops, you have no hope of the end state. You are now within your rights to look at her puzzled and ask "Why are you talking to me about ME? I didn't ask you for feedback, and frankly my self assessment is a lot more honest and effective than your "comments" at this point. This seems like nothing more than an attempt to avoid dealing with your behavior, which is no longer acceptable to me".

You keep - for lack of a better term - begging her for sex. Or for desire. This is now a 23 year pattern. If that "subliminal - request for approval" turned into an objective look at how she actually behaves, the entire dynamic would change. But that can't be your normal irritation/anger at why she doesn't "feel" a certain way. 

At this point - 3 years into an EA/PA she needs to FEEL committed enough to you to actually make an EFFORT to please YOU. 

Along with a lot of other bragging and nonsense a year ago, you were also VERY dishonest.  You came on here repeatedly claiming you had "cut way back" on chasing her. Finally you admitted that for the prior 5 months you have been getting up at 5 AM every morning to make her breakfast. 

If that massive type of behavioral hypocrisy is still continuing, you will NEVER get to the good place you want to be at. 




Trying2figureitout said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Finally someone gets it.
> 
> Again I go back to my own transformation after ILYNILWY. My wife expressed displeasure and I pretty much immediately responded with dramatic changes. Even stopping drinking that very night....cold turkey as a symbol of my devotion to making our marriage better. To this day I don't drink... don't even have the urge to drink.
> 
> I at the time thought to myself, she WAY over-reacted (and lied or exaggerated) but in the end it did not matter... I analyzed myself and knew I could do better as a husband and as a father. I set out to prove her wrong. Everyday I wake up and think...what can I do better today? Everyday.
> 
> I also set out to correct all that was flawed in our marriage.
> 
> I brought up her overreaction recently... I told her it was her fault for not communicating before hand had she had absolutely NO RIGHT to utter ILYNILWY at all and challenged her on the last three years of misery that came from it. She understood.
> 
> My wife is in the same boat now. She has basically pissed me off to the extent she was three years ago actually more. It is now her time to scramble around and figure out what changes she needs to make for our marriage to survive and thrive. I gave her guidelines but am not holding a gun to her head to change... ONLY SHE CAN.
> 
> So verification means nothing... CHANGE DOES. I do check phone records and so far she has not contacted him once in five days and neither has he... in my book that shows action and quite a difference from 20-40 texts per day at all times.
> 
> Everyone is an island. She knows where I stand and what I'll accept in our marriage.
> 
> So if she loves me... she'll find a way to make us both happiest in our marriage and for the benefit of our family. She does love me so we will arrive at a workable solution together in time.
> 
> I want it all and willing to risk everything to get what I want. I will only accept a SOLID fix. With every aspect of our marriage fixed and open communication for life.
> 
> In the end its easier to fix the wife you have that seeing if the grass is greener.. it isn't.
> My wife and I will change enough to make our marriage last and both end up much happier.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> Your last set of posts - show a high degree of sanity.
> 
> If you are "that way" at home - consistently - then you really have changed yourself.
> 
> Since you seem to be in a good place, I will hope that you can fully process this, because without this last bit you will not reach your goal.
> 
> You need to convey your assessment of your wife - as a WIFE - in an effective manner. To date, you have allowed her to make the entire conversation about you and your flaws.
> 
> Until that stops, you have no hope of the end state. You are now within your rights to look at her puzzled and ask "Why are you talking to me about ME? I didn't ask you for feedback, and frankly my self assessment is a lot more honest and effective than your "comments" at this point. This seems like nothing more than an attempt to avoid dealing with your behavior, which is no longer acceptable to me".
> 
> You keep - for lack of a better term - begging her for sex. Or for desire. This is now a 23 year pattern. If that "subliminal - request for approval" turned into an objective look at how she actually behaves, the entire dynamic would change. But that can't be your normal irritation/anger at why she doesn't "feel" a certain way.
> 
> At this point - 3 years into an EA/PA she needs to FEEL committed enough to you to actually make an EFFORT to please YOU.
> 
> Along with a lot of other bragging and nonsense a year ago, you were also VERY dishonest. You came on here repeatedly claiming you had "cut way back" on chasing her. Finally you admitted that for the prior 5 months you have been getting up at 5 AM every morning to make her breakfast.
> 
> If that massive type of behavioral hypocrisy is still continuing, you will NEVER get to the good place you want to be at.


Mem,

I am 'sane' and have a good bird's eye view of my own situation. I have in essence stopped chasing her... I am now holding her accountable for destroying our marriage and hurting our family.

I do still get up to see her off otherwise I would not even see her at all for days. We have some challenges with work schedules and her tired issue. Now that the OM thing appears resolved I do plan like you say on the final push.

I know we are near the end... this time for real.

I am sane, happy and in control of our communication. She really has no other choice than to fall in line with focusing on our marriage. For real this time.

I never once have begged for sex. I expect sex.

A lot of inner strength comes from going through this... that shows and my wife notices.
I wouldn't change a thing because I know all my efforts will pay off in the end.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Thanks,
> I do understand your view living it and thank you for your input. I don't feel my wife is predisposed to cheating though. So I think what I am doing will work on her.
> 
> I believe that once my wife realized what she was doing was cheating she realized it needed to stop. Up until then she was likely unaware and simply saw it as a friendship. Took a while to get her to see it as anything but a friendship and that it was destroying her marriage. It was presenting it in the way that made her realize it. Not he first time I mentioned EA to her... took a while to sink in.
> 
> Not the first time I mentioned a better "normal' sex life to her... it also will sink in.
> 
> She does not want to destroy our marriage. I give her credit she ended it on her own.
> 
> I could be delusional... sexless marriage is a mental disorder. I don't always feel sane. But in the end I'm doing things right... I do love my wife and will work to protect my marriage. My methods are mine... if they work then there is another way to fix sexless marriages.


T2, I do feel bad for you because you and your wife are not having sex. The thing is, regarding her being predisposed to cheating or not really doesn't matter. I wasn't predisposed to it either. I never dated more than one boy/man at a time. I never cheated on any of my boyfriends. And, in the first 9 years of my marriage, no one EVER turned my head. In fact, when my husband would point out that someone was eying me, I told him he was crazy. I couldn't see it. Tbh, I was surprised I even got my husband. It was a shock that someone like him would fall in love with me.

Fast forward to 2008. My husband was unable to work because he had a breakdown. I was do to have our third (and final, as we decided at the hospital that day) child. I thought he would be off work for a few weeks... maybe a couple months... it grew to a year. I started resenting him at that point. It is MY fault, not his. I wasn't getting my needs met by him, through NO fault of his own. He had no control over his mental state...and his doctor kept changing his meds over and over. Nothing was working, and we drifted further apart. I turned to another man. It was a stupid, selfish thing to do. I recognize NOW what triggered that in ME, and when those triggers occur now, I focus on other things. 

My point in telling you this, T2, is that like your wife, I wasn't predisposed to this. I truly thought, in the beginning, that the OM and I were just friends. And, it very well may have been true... at first. But it turned. At the point it turned, I became a cheater, just as your wife did. And, I will still carry that label for the rest of my life. Yes, I have changed, and am continuing to change. But the fact is, I am a cheater. It doesn't matter if I do it again or not, as far as the LABEL goes, that is. The fact is, if you rug sweep it, not verifying, etc... it WILL happen again. I can promise you that. Because it is EASIER the next time. A cheater learns to change things from before, to hide it better. By saying you trust her, that she has proven to be trustworthy, you are rug sweeping this. 

Look, I WANT you to succeed. I am telling you these things from the cheater's perspective, because... except for the sexlessness, I AM your wife. I hold grudges like you wouldn't believe. I am very social. God knows I LOVE to text! I can be stubborn. And if anyone tries to "handle" me... they get an earful. I, like your wife, was not predisposed to cheating. Maybe now, that could be a different story. But before? No, I was not. So, yes, I know what your wife is thinking. Had things gone to the extreme that yours has, I can promise you, the advice given here by everyone here would have been the ONLY thing to get me out. Acting the way you have been would have been viewed, by me, as WEAK. I would have been LAUGHING with the OM about how pathetic it is. Yours is more advanced in that you are not having sex AT ALL. Please, T2, take the advice given to heart. We don't want you to end the marriage. We want you to FIX it. But, as jbt said, you are spinning your wheels.... you are stuck. Use the tools we have given you. Get out of this rut... NOW.

You can't reconnect if she is out with her friends all the time, not with you. Rebuilding the connection requires effort. It requires spending time TOGETHER. Idc about the sex. Spend time TOGETHER. Find a hobby you both enjoy and work on it TOGETHER. THAT is how you reconnect... not by making plans and printing things out.


----------



## WyshIknew

Three years!!!!!!!!

You could have dumped her and been humped stupid by a woman who loves and cherishes you.

I admire your patience but three years!

Hopefully she is worth it!


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> sexlessness and infidelity are both temporary setbacks.


 You do not have a sexless marraige issue, you have an infidelity issue. A sexless marraige is a whole different thing from infidelity where the sexless aspect of the marraige is a common byproduct of the infidelity. If you read "Not Just Friends" you will see why you need to focus on firmly dealing with the infidelity issue. 

Even if your wife has not taken it underground and really has cut off all contact with her affair partner, by you not being her partner in the process where she directly commits to you that she will break off all contact, she will in all likelihood recontact her affair partner in a moment of weakness. She will not be able to help herself because of the chemical addiction she has to the brain drugs that she feels with her affair partner. Like most addicts, she will not be able to do it alone. She needs your help and you cannot help unless you and her are a team in fighting the addiction she has to her affair partner. The first thing is that you need to stop assuming and to start really communicating. You need an open dialog where she commits to full no contact and to full transparency and passwords. Can she break this addiction on her own? Maybe, but the odds are much better if you do this as a team.



Trying2figureitout said:


> A sexual mutually supported better an happy marriage is the goal.


 This goal can only be achieve if both of you work for this as a team that openly discusses and agrees on each step that needs to be taken. So far nothing you have said shows that she is all in on this.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> You all can laugh now...but I will succeed.


 Trust me when I say that no one is laughing. We feel for you and want you to succeed and are saddened by your unwillingness to see the horrible truth for what it is. You are not to blame. You sound like a decent person, but you are not equipped to deal with the bad hand that your wife has dealt you.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> T2, I do feel bad for you because you and your wife are not having sex. The thing is, regarding her being predisposed to cheating or not really doesn't matter. I wasn't predisposed to it either. I never dated more than one boy/man at a time. I never cheated on any of my boyfriends. And, in the first 9 years of my marriage, no one EVER turned my head. In fact, when my husband would point out that someone was eying me, I told him he was crazy. I couldn't see it. Tbh, I was surprised I even got my husband. It was a shock that someone like him would fall in love with me.
> 
> Fast forward to 2008. My husband was unable to work because he had a breakdown. I was do to have our third (and final, as we decided at the hospital that day) child. I thought he would be off work for a few weeks... maybe a couple months... it grew to a year. I started resenting him at that point. It is MY fault, not his. I wasn't getting my needs met by him, through NO fault of his own. He had no control over his mental state...and his doctor kept changing his meds over and over. Nothing was working, and we drifted further apart. I turned to another man. It was a stupid, selfish thing to do. I recognize NOW what triggered that in ME, and when those triggers occur now, I focus on other things.
> 
> My point in telling you this, T2, is that like your wife, I wasn't predisposed to this. I truly thought, in the beginning, that the OM and I were just friends. And, it very well may have been true... at first. But it turned. At the point it turned, I became a cheater, just as your wife did. And, I will still carry that label for the rest of my life. Yes, I have changed, and am continuing to change. But the fact is, I am a cheater. It doesn't matter if I do it again or not, as far as the LABEL goes, that is. The fact is, if you rug sweep it, not verifying, etc... it WILL happen again. I can promise you that. Because it is EASIER the next time. A cheater learns to change things from before, to hide it better. By saying you trust her, that she has proven to be trustworthy, you are rug sweeping this.
> 
> Look, I WANT you to succeed. I am telling you these things from the cheater's perspective, because... except for the sexlessness, I AM your wife. I hold grudges like you wouldn't believe. I am very social. God knows I LOVE to text! I can be stubborn. And if anyone tries to "handle" me... they get an earful. I, like your wife, was not predisposed to cheating. Maybe now, that could be a different story. But before? No, I was not. So, yes, I know what your wife is thinking. Had things gone to the extreme that yours has, I can promise you, the advice given here by everyone here would have been the ONLY thing to get me out. Acting the way you have been would have been viewed, by me, as WEAK. I would have been LAUGHING with the OM about how pathetic it is. Yours is more advanced in that you are not having sex AT ALL. Please, T2, take the advice given to heart. We don't want you to end the marriage. We want you to FIX it. But, as jbt said, you are spinning your wheels.... you are stuck. Use the tools we have given you. Get out of this rut... NOW.
> 
> You can't reconnect if she is out with her friends all the time, not with you. Rebuilding the connection requires effort. It requires spending time TOGETHER. Idc about the sex. Spend time TOGETHER. Find a hobby you both enjoy and work on it TOGETHER. THAT is how you reconnect... not by making plans and printing things out.



Thanks,

You do sound like my wife.

I got laid off three years ago... so that could have been a trigger as you describe.. I will keep in mind what you say as my wife and I travel this path.

My wife has cleared her calender and chosen to stay home on weekends.. that is another action I did not ask for from her yet she did on her own.

So less texting
Less nights out/parties etc.

More concentrating on us. More interaction.

Is my wife worth it?

I believe so otherwise I'd be gone.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Trust me when I say that no one is laughing. We feel for you and want you to succeed and are saddened by your unwillingness to see the horrible truth for what it is. You are not to blame. You sound like a decent person, but you are not equipped to deal with the bad hand that your wife has dealt you.



Try.. I will succeed. Because I try.

I won't accept anything less than a 100% fix.

No one is to blame... it just is life. The issue all along was communication.

We seem to have that fixed. From that will come all the rest.

I think I know the truth... and yes I am a decent person... a nice guy.
My wife is not a 'witch' as some describe her... shes a good person also.

My wife won't want to lose that. She might have abused it but in the end she'll realize what she has and her part in everything.

Only reason I post is to help others, I have my own counselor anytime I need. She believes I'm on the right track and she helps many men through these scenarios (At least half of her men end up divorcing their wives) I plan to not have to go that route but will if i have to.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

WyshIknew said:


> Three years!!!!!!!!
> 
> You could have dumped her and been humped stupid by a woman who loves and cherishes you.
> 
> I admire your patience but three years!
> 
> Hopefully she is worth it!


I believe T2 will say that it is worth it. IMHO, T2 thinks his wife is smoking hot, and that she will be worth waiting for because she is a catch. In the long run, if she can successfully self-correct then her status in his eyes will go up even higher because she will embody the ultimate ideal in a woman in his eyes - one that has looks, brains and a thought process based on reason. It's my interpretation of what T2 is looking at and what his thoughts would be on this. I'll see if I'm right.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I believe T2 will say that it is worth it. IMHO, T2 thinks his wife is smoking hot, and that she will be worth waiting for because she is a catch. In the long run, if she can successfully self-correct then her status in his eyes will go up even higher because she will embody the ultimate ideal in a woman in his eyes - one that has looks, brains and a thought process based on reason. It's my interpretation of what T2 is looking at and what his thoughts would be on this. I'll see if I'm right.



You pretty much have it....
My wife is very hot for her age (look at the gym time), shes fun, hard working, smart, great cook, good mom and easy for the most part to live with. She looks great and dresses well. She has achieved a lot at her job and shows great resourcefulness in having a viable side business. She also can if she wants be great in bed.

I could do worse, also i get along well with her parents and she has a good head on her shoulders. We actually make a good team (totally different skill set). In fact people think we are a fantastic couple.

There is a reason we married. Her flaws pretty much have to do with committed male relations she does not get along well with women... she herself admits no one can really meet her standards. She does not like to be educated! She's pretty self-assured and centered she expects a lot. Most of it is a cover up for likely deep insecurity....as evidenced by her grudge holding. I mean its bad I feel sorry for those she has a grudge against...she literally writes them off. Including her own half-sister and best friend from high school and across the street neighbor and old neighbor..... list goes on and on. Even her parents see it... they even comment about her high strung nature.

She needs me as I balance her out (she even admitted that to me several times), she would not do well alone and would drive another guy crazy. I've learned how to handle her. My boys think moms nuts. I can't argue  although I just think she overdoes everything again covering up her own insecurities. Could also explain a lot going on with sex.

In the end its a bit of "Can I do it.. can I turn things around and get my way?" I also mostly stay because I know she needs me and the kids do also.

I've said all along LIFE is a game... I truly believe that. I don't like to lose. I will always love my wife regardless of what happens. I believe in marriage, I believe I can turn things around.


----------



## Shaggy

I think the core question is:

Is your wife pursuing and dating you ?

OR

Is she living with you day to day?

You're marriage is broken, and she needs to be pursuing you and fixing it. Forget being home on the weekends, you two should be pulling out all the stops to regrow your relationship, just as if you were freshly dating.

No going out to parties and social things alone - both of you go because you are a couple, and couples with passion are a package deal.

You must be spending meaningful time alone together - not just being in the same place at the same time.

I read a lot of hope in your words, but I don't read reports of your wife taking actions to pursue you or grow the marriage. It seems like she's in a holding pattern - she's given up the OM, and cut back a little solo partying - for now - with the hope you will be placated and settle back into the peaceful state you were in 3 years ago.

Hope is not a plan of action.


----------



## MEM2020

And this is the whole issue - you claim she has no other choice but you - and then admit that if you don't get up at 5 you won't see each other. It is ALWAYS you contouring your behavior. 

THIS is where your behavior and your statements directly conflict. And you are still saying:
- she is tired
- she is ....

This is not holding her accountable for anything. She CHEATED on you. She should be making an effort. And yet - if you don't get up at 5 - you won't see her. 




Trying2figureitout said:


> Mem,
> 
> I am 'sane' and have a good bird's eye view of my own situation. I have in essence stopped chasing her... I am now holding her accountable for destroying our marriage and hurting our family.
> 
> I do still get up to see her off otherwise I would not even see her at all for days. We have some challenges with work schedules and her tired issue. Now that the OM thing appears resolved I do plan like you say on the final push.
> 
> I know we are near the end... this time for real.
> 
> I am sane, happy and in control of our communication. She really has no other choice than to fall in line with focusing on our marriage. For real this time.
> 
> I never once have begged for sex. I expect sex.
> 
> A lot of inner strength comes from going through this... that shows and my wife notices.
> I wouldn't change a thing because I know all my efforts will pay off in the end.


----------



## MEM2020

He is her best FINANCIAL CHOICE. 

Does not seem to want to grasp that. 




Shaggy said:


> I think the core question is:
> 
> Is your wife pursuing and dating you ?
> 
> OR
> 
> Is she living with you day to day?
> 
> You're marriage is broken, and she needs to be pursuing you and fixing it. Forget being home on the weekends, you two should be pulling out all the stops to regrow your relationship, just as if you were freshly dating.
> 
> No going out to parties and social things alone - both of you go because you are a couple, and couples with passion are a package deal.
> 
> You must be spending meaningful time alone together - not just being in the same place at the same time.
> 
> I read a lot of hope in your words, but I don't read reports of your wife taking actions to pursue you or grow the marriage. It seems like she's in a holding pattern - she's given up the OM, and cut back a little solo partying - for now - with the hope you will be placated and settle back into the peaceful state you were in 3 years ago.
> 
> Hope is not a plan of action.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Shaggy said:


> I think the core question is:
> 
> Is your wife pursuing and dating you ?
> 
> OR
> 
> Is she living with you day to day?
> 
> You're marriage is broken, and she needs to be pursuing you and fixing it. Forget being home on the weekends, you two should be pulling out all the stops to regrow your relationship, just as if you were freshly dating.
> 
> No going out to parties and social things alone - both of you go because you are a couple, and couples with passion are a package deal.
> 
> You must be spending meaningful time alone together - not just being in the same place at the same time.
> 
> I read a lot of hope in your words, but I don't read reports of your wife taking actions to pursue you or grow the marriage. It seems like she's in a holding pattern - she's given up the OM, and cut back a little solo partying - for now - with the hope you will be placated and settle back into the peaceful state you were in 3 years ago.
> 
> Hope is not a plan of action.


We've gone to all recent parties together... only GNO do I not go and those have gotten less frequent.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> And this is the whole issue - you claim she has no other choice but you - and then admit that if you don't get up at 5 you won't see each other. It is ALWAYS you contouring your behavior.
> 
> THIS is where your behavior and your statements directly conflict. And you are still saying:
> - she is tired
> - she is ....
> 
> This is not holding her accountable for anything. She CHEATED on you. She should be making an effort. And yet - if you don't get up at 5 - you won't see her.


Agree she should be doing more ideally. I agree.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Agree she should be doing more ideally. I agree.


Then call her on it. Tell her she needs to actually be making the effort. I had to get the sense knocked into me. She needs that too.

T2, was she* ever* head over heels in love with you? I mean passionate, couldn't get enough of you?

I am not asking if YOU felt that for HER. I want to know if SHE ever felt that for YOU.


----------



## justbidingtime

Again you're making up stories..... Are you kidding me she is after 3 years clearing up her weekends or you???? And no GNO's???? Sure that will last all of one week, because she is her own woman and can do what she wishes and when. 

Heck you talked about the EA (or intimated it) a year ago and you claim now you finally told her to maybe stop (or at least) cut back on the texting????

The only reason whatsoever anything may have stopped is that they have taken it underground or he dumped her......

Last year you talked and bragged about a wonderful fulfilled sex life coming your way, writing notes and demands and now a year later still nothing.

You said she likes sex????? How does someone go 3 years without who likes it?????? Sorry she really must dislike you...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Then call her on it. Tell her she needs to actually be making the effort. I had to get the sense knocked into me. She needs that too.
> 
> T2, was she* ever* head over heels in love with you? I mean passionate, couldn't get enough of you?
> 
> I am not asking if YOU felt that for HER. I want to know if SHE ever felt that for YOU.


She asked me to marry her so I guess that counts.


----------



## MEM2020

She won't - in a subtle way you are crowding her because you are profoundly afraid she won't come to you. 

Ultimately - your definition of things getting better is that she in polite/nice/allows you to chase her. 

You want excitement without fear. That will NOT work with a woman like your wife. And frankly it is why sex is something she has always just "tolerated". 

She asked to marry the father/provider, not the lover. You never really wanted to understand that.




Trying2figureitout said:


> Agree she should be doing more ideally. I agree.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Then call her on it. Tell her she needs to actually be making the effort. I had to get the sense knocked into me. She needs that too.
> 
> T2, was she* ever* head over heels in love with you? I mean passionate, couldn't get enough of you?
> 
> I am not asking if YOU felt that for HER. I want to know if SHE ever felt that for YOU.


As for knocking sense into her... you probably are right. But for right now I'll sit back and just let life happen for a while. We've had a lot of communication lately.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> The issue all along was communication.
> 
> We seem to have that fixed. From that will come all the rest.


 You are right in saying that the issue all along was communication, but you are wrong in saying that it is fixed. If it were fixed you would both be comfortable talking to each other about her commitment to work on the marraige by her cutting off all contact with her affair partner. Were there the required communication between the two of you, she would have told you on her own that she had decided to cut off all communication with her affair partner and you would not be afraid to have a conversation with her about this. It takes two to have a conversation with each other. When it really counts, you are talking to yourself and she is not part of the conversation. Again, the issue all along is communication. Start talking to your wife more.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> She asked me to marry her so I guess that counts.


 No that does not count. The question was "was she ever head over heels in love with you? I mean passionate, couldn't get enough of you?" and you did not answer that question. Many people marry for many reasons other than love. Your inability to say a clear cut yes, suggests otherwise.


----------



## justbidingtime

TRy said:


> No that does not count. The question was "was she ever head over heels in love with you? I mean passionate, couldn't get enough of you?" and you did not answer that question. Many people marry for many reasons other than love. Your inability to say a clear cut yes, suggests otherwise.


He never answers the questions directly or with conviction. There's always more to all his posts and unanswered issues. I am convinced that at times it is a game. Heck all this time on the TAM, shouldn't he be with her and rubbing her feet or something????


----------



## Maricha75

Ok, T2, you're a stubborn PITA, just like my husband! :rofl:

I'll try it a different way.... watch this video, and LISTEN to the lyrics.... were you and Mrs. T2 EVER like this, during dating/courtship, early in the marriage, or ANY time?

Brad Paisley - Remind Me ft. Carrie Underwood - YouTube


Also, have a listen to THIS song: Luke Bryan - Do I - YouTube

If you asked your wife this, RIGHT NOW, how would she answer? And how would she have answered in dating/courtship?

Answer directly, please. Don't skirt around it. We know the difference.


----------



## Alyosha

"We are in the final stages of our ultimate reconciliation.... I can't say when but I know its likely soon for various reasons."

Yep. "Soon." Any day now. 

Soon.

I feel like laughing until I realize how really pathetic this guy's situation is.

T2FIO, what would you do if you really loved and respected yourself? Answer that question honestly and I guarantee it's not what you are currently doing.

...............soon...........

Jeezus!


----------



## justbidingtime

I couldn't help but go back to threads T2FIO started and I implore those interested to do a quick search. This has been going on for so long with no resolution I do at times feel bad that T2FIO keeps going along the same path dreaming about a relationship with his wife. 

In the first threads he talks how attractive he and his wife are and is honest as to his performance anxiety (and this was 2 years ago) I just keep hammering the fact that this is a lost cause. 

I also ask thet T2FIO reread the threads and see he has regressed and not moved forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TCSRedhead

Trying2figureitout said:


> We've gone to all recent parties together... only GNO do I not go and those have gotten less frequent.


No time and energy for sexual intimacy but plenty of time and energy to spend, again, OUTSIDE of your marriage. :scratchhead:


----------



## Maricha75

TCSRedhead said:


> No time and energy for sexual intimacy but plenty of time and energy to spend, again, OUTSIDE of your marriage. :scratchhead:


We've all pointed this out... his reply is that she is a "social butterfly". The problem is all these sites out there telling people they can "nice" their spouses out if affairs. It doesn't work that way. Following that example makes the BS look weak and pathetic. Been there, done that. But, in the end, T2 will do as he wishes.... even if he has to wait 20 more years....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Acabado

I don't believe his wife even notices him. Beyond the annoying roomate. Everything with emotional significance for her happens outside the marriage. She's going with the flow as long as you don't bother her too much. I highly doubt the changes he notices are related to her desire to engage. Who knows what's really in her head. OP sure doesn't. 

No matter how he must change himself at least to be in her radar.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Hey all..

Thanks for the input.... I actually do consider it all. 
Don't feel too sorry for me I actually am doing relatively well lack of sex won't kill me might make me less productive but won't kill me.

I am wanting our situation resolved. I still think and actually believe it will happen based on conversations with my wife. She finally I believe realizes the importance of resolving our issue.

I will talk with my wife in depth about her investment in our relationship.... so far its been a lot of breaking down the wall she put up three years ago.... and closing the window she opened for the OM.

Yes I started the book. It was definitely a wall she put up.

I do believe that we have broken down the wall and that it is now mostly getting back to normal and back in the swing of a normal marriage. It will be infinitely easier with the OM out of her mind. So far no contact at all as far as I can tell.

Most of our situation now is her... I've done plenty to resolve it on my end. So I'm letting her now react to everything we talked about recently. That is the way I do things.. so I won't change that. I believe in time working.

She will not ever get a free pass... I am still doing a full court press as we head toward a scheduled talk in January. That January discussion will be about our relationship and her actual investment in it. We'll need to discuss her tired issue, and also revisit the EA and what has happened since.

Its very hard to correct 20+ years of marital dynamics... takes time and effort.

ODDS are we fix this and create a better sexual marriage... just my gut feeling being involved in it.


----------



## strugglinghusband

T2 you got resolve buddy thats for sure, but may I ask, whats your contingency plan? just in case the odds are not in your favor.


----------



## justbidingtime

Why January now? Let me guess..... She's too busy and the holidays.

I just went back to your original threads and what a sad plight since the ILYBNILWY crap..... Not sure reading it, she ever was "In Love".

You finally have acknowledged the Affair and still soft-shoeing around it..... And she coninues to call the shots.....

Heck you admitted to ED troubles the few times you have tried to have sex in 2011...... Heck I'm sure I'd have trouble too......

Man Up now (and I hate that phrase, but it is apropos).


----------



## justbidingtime

I'm trying my best to knock some sense into you T2FIO, because it has reached the point where I now do feel sad for you.

She refuses to acknowledge the situation head on (more likely she doesn't care). You want a sexually fulfilling marriage and she puts you off. She has had an AFFAIR, that you still refuse to fully acknowledge. You claim she is not an overtly sexual person and want that to change but she has no interest.

How does one go 18 months without sex (July 2011 from your notes)?

You won't ask if she had a PA, you won't ask how she feels about sex, you probably don't know if you bring her to O either. 

If she likes sex at all and there has been no PA (highly doubtful), then she must masturbate and that too you can't broach. Heck if my spouse chose that over me for 18 months that would be a kick in the guts......

You claim you are a great guy, attractive and a wonderful catch. Go do something about it.......


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> I'm trying my best to knock some sense into you T2FIO, because it has reached the point where I now do feel sad for you.
> 
> She refuses to acknowledge the situation head on (more likely she doesn't care). You want a sexually fulfilling marriage and she puts you off. She has had an AFFAIR, that you still refuse to fully acknowledge. You claim she is not an overtly sexual person and want that to change but she has no interest.
> 
> How does one go 18 months without sex (July 2011 from your notes)?
> 
> You won't ask if she had a PA, you won't ask how she feels about sex, you probably don't know if you bring her to O either.
> 
> If she likes sex at all and there has been no PA (highly doubtful), then she must masturbate and that too you can't broach. Heck if my spouse chose that over me for 18 months that would be a kick in the guts......
> 
> You claim you are a great guy, attractive and a wonderful catch. Go do something about it.......


I'm trying to do something about it.

I did ask about PA... she said NO 
I did ask about sex... she says she likes it
Masterbate... unknown I guess I can ask.
O... yes I know how to bring her to O
It just passed 11 months. Longest dry spell.
EA...by definition, to her it was seen as an issue obviously but never stated its an affair. I believe it was.

I won't give up until we divorce. 

The talk in January is for time to work.

I would not be surprised if we start having sex again this month.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I would not be surprised if we start having sex again this month.


 I would not be surprised, I would be totally and completely shocked if you came back in the month of November and truthfully told us that you both had started to have regular sex.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> I would not be surprised, I would be totally and completely shocked if you came back in the month of November and truthfully told us that you both had started to have regular sex.



Hard to judge regular sex after such a long layoff so I wouldn't make that claim yet. I wouldn't make that statement until a good pattern developed. I have no reason to lie. Like I said I'm here to help document a potential success story and along the way get differing opinions on how to handle it.

I feel we are close to getting our sex life back. I don't blame anyone for being skeptical.

Like I said though it'll resolve when it resolves. 
Not "if" rather 'when'

You all seem to think I just sit back and do nothing about it... that is far from the truth.
Everyday my wife and I get closer we both understand the issue. It will resolve and the sex will be better worth the wait.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> Hard to judge regular sex after such a long layoff so I wouldn't make that claim yet. I wouldn't make that statement until a good pattern developed. I have no reason to lie. Like I said I'm here to help document a *potential success stor*y and along the way get differing opinions on how to handle it.
> 
> I feel we are close to getting our sex life back. I don't blame anyone for being skeptical.
> 
> Like I said though it'll resolve when it resolves.
> Not "if" rather 'when'


How is it a "potential success story"? It is more a "fairytale"..... She has stolen 3 years from your life minimum. 

I hate to break it to you, but it has been by your own accounts at least 17 months since you had sex (July 2011), and it was a failure then because she has emasculated you and there were ED issues....... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...ife-now-physically-we-recover-disconnect.html


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> How is it a "potential success story"? It is more a "fairytale"..... She has stolen 3 years from your life minimum.
> 
> I hate to break it to you, but it has been by your own accounts at least 17 months since you had sex (July 2011), and it was a failure then because she has emasculated you and there were ED issues.......
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...ife-now-physically-we-recover-disconnect.html


Its a potential success story because I feel I will succeed.

In fact I'm virtually certain I will succeed in restoring a good regular sex life.
Anything is possible.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Hard to judge regular sex after such a long layoff so I wouldn't make that claim yet. I wouldn't make that statement until a good pattern developed.


 There you go backing down again. You stated that "I would not be surprised if we start having sex again this month" and I said that "I would not be surprised, I would be totally and completely shocked if you came back in the month of November and truthfully told us that you both had started to have regular sex". Look, if you started having sex in the month of November, you may not know for sure in November if it was the beginning of regular sex, but you would be able to confirm that it was in a couple of weeks. There was thus no reason for you to back down if you really believed in your heart what you were saying. I think that you know the truth but are afraid to admit it to yourself.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Like I said I'm here to help document a potential success story and along the way get differing opinions on how to handle it.


 A four year plan of letting your wife cheat on you with another man while you live in a sexless marraige, is not a plan most would consider a success story even if she does start having sex with you again. As for you getting "differing opinions on how to handle it" that only makes sense if you plan on listening to any of it.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> There you go backing down again. You stated that "I would not be surprised if we start having sex again this month" and I said that "I would not be surprised, I would be totally and completely shocked if you came back in the month of November and truthfully told us that you both had started to have regular sex". Look, if you started having sex in the month of November, you may not know for sure in November if it was the beginning of regular sex, but you would be able to confirm that it was in a couple of weeks. There was thus no reason for you to back down if you really believed in your heart what you were saying. I think that you know the truth but are afraid to admit it to yourself.
> 
> A four year plan of letting your wife cheat on you with another man while you live in a sexless marraige, is not a plan most would consider a success story even if she does start having sex with you again. As for you getting "differing opinions on how to handle it" that only makes sense if you plan on listening to any of it.


Why would it not be a success?

Sexless marriages usually fail.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> In fact I'm virtually certain I will succeed in restoring a good regular sex life.


 In responding to justbidingtime's post, you did not read the link that he posted to a post that you made over a year ago where you said "No sex since July. Part my doing... but likely very soon." You said sex "very soon" over a year ago, with no results dude. The irony that you are still saying it with the same false confidence appears lost on you.


----------



## justbidingtime

It is sad that T2FIO keeps hoping for some kind of miracle from a woman who has not respected or loved him in years. I miss the old T2FIO and his threads that he deleted maniacally detailing his plans and certain success. He's asked so many questions and at times seemed sincere..... I find myself going back and forth and not sure what to think but that I really hate his wife, not for cheating (if she did), but for not cutting him loose and being honest with him


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Why would it not be a success?
> 
> Sexless marriages usually fail.


 Because staying married to a woman that would deny you sex for four years as she has an affair with another man, is not what most men would want to do. For them there is no success in that. 

You need to realize that you matter too. Winning your wife back no matter what she does to you should not be your goal in life, where she has complete control of the outcome. Never make someone else a priority that does not make a priority of you. That is what is called self-respect.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Why would it not be a success?
> 
> Sexless marriages usually fail.


Interesting....
Shall I direct all the sexless folk in the Sex forum over here?

Oh! Oh! I know! I'll have my PARENTS come on here and tell you what they think of your prediction! My parents have been, by definition, sexless since I was about... I'd say 25. That was 12 YEARS ago. They just celebrated 39 years last month. And you know what? My dad STILL looks at my mom like she is the 20 year old girl he married. I'll be DAMNED if anyone can tell ME that their marriage will fail because they haven't had sex in 12 years! No, INFIDELITY kills a marriage faster. And I thank GOD both of my parents have always been faithful to each other... even the social butterfly my mother always was. She NEVER hooked up with someone else.


Yea, I know, I screwed up in my own marriage. But at least I gave up my enabling friends as well as the venues that enabled my EA to continue. (Pst.... that would be the gym your wife belongs to). Honestly, there is no reason she HAS to go to the gym. She could very easily do her workouts, etc at home. There is PLENTY of exercise she could do, right in your own home.... starting with: *SEX!!*... The problem is... she has to actually WANT to stay home.


----------



## justbidingtime

First there are plenty of Women's Only gyms.....

The issue T2FIO is you come to the CWI section under false pretenses. People here are hurting and it is a special area where people support each other and try to help those wanting help. I don't agree with much of what is posted and the usually vitriolic condemnation of all cheaters (once a cheater, always a cheater)....

You do not want help... They will tell you that an EA is worse then a PA in most cases. The idea she has STOLEN 3-4 years of your life carrying on n EA, would have them up in arms......

But guess what T2FIO, most have seen through you and are ignoring this thread and it is us who know you on this thread going on and on trying to knock some sense in you now that at least you've admitted a problem and the EA.....


----------



## carmen ohio

This thread is a running gag, right? T2FIO is the resident TAM comedian, right? How else to explain all of you giving the same advice over and over and T2FIO's repetitious response, "any day now"?

Well, gag or not, it sure is a hoot to read.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

carmen ohio said:


> This thread is a running gag, right? T2FIO is the resident TAM comedian, right? How else to explain all of you giving the same advice over and over and T2FIO's repetitious response, "any day now"?
> 
> Well, gag or not, it sure is a hoot to read.


It is real... no gag. I could come up with better if I was trying too. Everything I posted is real.

As for "Any day now" I felt like we were on track last year in December then she got injured... that set us back 6 months. I think we lost some momentum there. Now after she healed I decided to address the OM and get her to commit to resolving our issue in a timely fashion. We have discussed a lot recently. Sex does not just flow after having heavy discussions. Plus the longer you go without the harder it is to restart.

So now I'm waiting on results of those discussions. So yes it could be any day literally. Her and I want to move forward on this and will make it happen. Both of us ideally want to get back to where there were no issues. Its hard on both of us.

We will solve this sooner rather than later.


----------



## Maricha75

How did an injury set you back 6 months? What was the nature of the injury? Did it require surgery? 

Also, I have a hard time buying that your "track" before the injury included 5 months of celibacy. But then, I wouldn't have accepted 3 YEARS of it, either... nor 17 years of being NEARLY celibate! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## justbidingtime

T2FIO I am not sure whether you are just living in denial, are just so thick it can not get through, are delusional or just doing this to see the responses you can elicit.

You change the days, dates and the timelines continually to suit your purposes and many times bring up this mystery injury as yet another in the long long list of excuses you rationalize her behaviour. The "*supposed*" injury happened well before November (no I'm not checking for confirmation). She was not holed up or bedridden, continued her daily gym visits, GNO's, work....... 

Let's add to that your conversations with her that go nowhere. What do you talk about? There are only two things to discuss.... Her Affair & Sex..... Guess what????? You don't have direct answers on either. You have the female "get out of jail free" card....... I have to fall in love with you again.....

You may get pity sex again if she really senses you slipping away and that is all it will be I'm sorry to say. The point is it will never come close to what you dream of or wish for that you wrote in such detail, with expectations of a fulfilling sex life that you've never lived when you started posting.


----------



## Hicks

Recap:

T's wife is having an affair for 3 years. She has told T that she is in love with this man, and cut T off sexually. In the last few weeks, T handed her an article that made his wife realize she was doing something terrible and she decided to end her affair. T is now confident that his marriage will return to normal.


----------



## ilou

Hicks said:


> Recap:
> 
> T's wife is having an affair for 3 years. She has told T that she is in love with this man, and cut T off sexually. In the last few weeks, T handed her an article that made his wife realize she was doing something terrible and she decided to end her affair. _T is now confident that his marriage will return to normal_.


For some reason I laughed at this post. I know this is a hurtful topic but why is that so?


----------



## Maricha75

Hicks said:


> Recap:
> 
> T's wife is having an affair for 3 years. She has told T that she is in love with this man, and cut T off sexually. In the last few weeks, T handed her an article that made his wife realize she was doing something terrible and she decided to end her affair. T is now confident that his marriage will return to normal.


Nice summary! :smthumbup:


----------



## TRy

Hicks said:


> Recap:
> 
> T's wife is having an affair for 3 years. She has told T that she is in love with this man, and cut T off sexually. In the last few weeks, T handed her an article that made his wife realize she was doing something terrible and she decided to end her affair. T is now confident that his marriage will return to normal.


 You left out the fact that she last told him that she would not give up the affair partner, but agreed to "text him less". Restating what you said with what she actually told him and not what he is assuming without verification, it would read as follows:

T's wife is having an affair for 3 years. She has told T that she is in love with this man, and cut T off sexually. In the last few weeks, T handed her an article that made his wife realize she was doing something terrible and she decided to *tell T that she would text her affair partner less*. T is now confident that his marriage will return to normal.


----------



## justbidingtime

TRy said:


> You left out the fact that she last told him that she would not give up the affair partner, but agreed to "text him less". Restating what you said with what she actually told him and not what he is assuming without verification, it would read as follows:
> 
> T's wife is having an affair for 3 years. She has told T that she is in love with this man, and cut T off sexually. In the last few weeks, T handed her an article that made his wife realize she was doing something terrible and she decided to *tell T that she would text her affair partner less*. T is now confident that his marriage will return to normal.


That's nasty, but probably needed. He is 3 years+ removed from the ILYBNILWY and he searches for crumbs. I'm not sure she told him she Loves the OM, but if she did then he should accept it and move on with a strategy to leave her or a resolution immediately.

I am reading more & more threads where the ILYBNILWY, EA/PA or just plain sexless posts and they all have the same results where very little is resolved and where the man wallows in self-pity and seldom takes the bull by the horns.


----------



## Hicks

When you hear ILYBNILWY you may as well add "like I am with him" to the end of it. Since the statement is a always a point of comparison between the betrayed and the affair partner.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I think you are all off base...

I do not believe my wife was involved in a full blown affair... neither does she. It was more of a boundary crossing than and affair. It did probably make our situation drag out. Now its under control. BY definition though it is an EA just based on the amount of contact and the secrecy... so I accept it was one but don't believe it was too bad, I don't believe there were deep sexual/love feelings involved. I asked her directly if she had any feelings for him... her answer was NO. Part of the issue is I never ever restricted her from her activities... so she pushed it in the end. Now we have some boundaries in place.

The sexless period was partly my doing standing up to her. Keep in mind she can hold grudges like nobody I know. I set some "criteria" of what a return to sex would look like... told her I was done with the old sexlife as that caused our issue in the first place.

Part of my criteria is we have sex once she fully reconnects.. I will not accept any pity sex or disinterested sex. She knows she has to wrap her mind around reconnecting with me fully which takes time.

The injury did involve surgery and to this day she experiences complications from it. So that has been her main focus since December. Our longstanding sex issue got put on the back burner. She does not sleep through the night due to pain.

Now she is far enough along I decided to fix our sex issue and the extended contact with her gym buddy. We are doing much better and both agree our issue needs fully resolved.

So you can pencil her as some cheater if you want. I more believe it is a friendship that went too far in terms of involvement in time, Time better spent on fixing our marriage IMO. If she wants to maintain that friendship I don't care as long as it tones way down. I am not happy about the 10000+ texts per year for three years but accept that as long as she learns from it and pours more effort into our relationship. Keep in mind she is a pretty major texter so thousands of texts per month are not abnormal. I was concerned though over the amount to one individual I didn't know.

So whatever like I said I just wanted to give an update... obviously I provide some entertainment and hopefully take your minds off your own lives.

I have no other agenda than documenting for other benefit my journey away from a sexless marriage. I look at the last three years as a necessary course correction in my marriage. I wouldn't change a thing. Because I know my efforts will eventually pay off.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think you are all off base...
> 
> I do not believe my wife was involved in a full blown affair... neither does she. It was more of a boundary crossing than and affair. It did probably make our situation drag out. Now its under control. BY definition though it is an EA just based on the amount of contact and the secrecy... so I accept it was one but don't believe it was too bad, I don't believe there were deep feelings involved.
> 
> The sexless period was partly my doing standing up to her. Keep in mind she can hold grudges like nobody I know. I set some "criteria" of what a return to sex would look like... told her I was done with the old sexlife as that caused our issue in the first place.
> 
> Part of my criteria is we have sex once she fully reconnects.. I will not accept any pity sex or disinterested sex. She knows she has to wrap her mind around reconnecting with me fully which takes time.
> 
> The injury did involve surgery and to this day she experiences complications from it. So that has been her main focus since December. Our longstanding sex issue got put on the back burner.
> 
> Now she is far enough along I decided to fix our sex issue and the extended contact with her gym buddy. We are doing much better and both agree our issue needs fully resolved.
> 
> So you can pencil her as some cheater if you want. I more believe it is a friendship that went too far in terms of involvement in time. If she wants to maintain that friendship I don't care as long as it tones way down. I am not happy about the 10000+ texts but accept that as long as she learns from it and pours more effort into our relationship. Keep in mind she is a pretty major texter so thousands of texts per month are not abnormal. I was concerned though over the amount to one individual I didn't know.
> 
> So whatever like I said I just wanted to give an update... obviously I provide some entertainment and hopefully take your minds off your own lives.
> 
> I have no other agenda than documenting for other benefit my journey away from a sexless marriage.


Again a SIMPLE QUESTION for you to answer......

After surgery, how long did it take 'til she was back at the gym????? Please no more then an answer to that.

Then I will ask you to answer the following..... You really don't think any sex now won't be just that..... Pity sex? I'd consider any sex after 18 months (and admitted sex prior to that) just that, pity sex?

Ask her for me whether she has masturbated at all in the last 3 years. Unfortunately there is no right answer. If the answer is no, then she just doesn't care for sex and certainly not with you and thus the sex you want will never ever be, or cared so little and was so disconnected that she'd rather do it herself or has had an affair. It is a "*no win*"situation, but will hopefully knock some sense into you.

No we all get it...... You do not.......


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> If she wants to maintain that friendship I don't care as long as it tones way down.


 So you are now completely backing down on the no contact demand as she knew that you would. For the last few days you were insisting that she had respond to your request to cut off all contact with the affair partner, and that you did not need to verify this because she knew how you felt about it and was responding to your request with "action" which is more important than "words". You pointed to this as proof that she cared to fix the marraige. Now that you have stopped triumphantly telling us how many days she has not had contact with her affair partner, and have now completely backed off of insisting on no contact, I have to ask, did she have contact with the affair partner again?



Trying2figureitout said:


> I didn't know.


 She has know a local guy that she met three years ago at a gym, invited this guy into her part time business, communicates with this guy 10,000s of times, and you do not know him? Ever ask her why?


----------



## Maricha75

justbidingtime said:


> Again a SIMPLE QUESTION for you to answer......
> 
> After surgery, how long did it take 'til she was back at the gym????? Please no more then an answer to that.


... you know you won't get an answer to this.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> ... you know you won't get an answer to this.


She was back at the gym in low capacity about 4 months after surgery.... her type of surgery takes anywhere from 6-12 months to heal to return to normal activities... she pushes the envelope on the gym because its actually a necessity for her. She developed secondary complications from original surgery which are being treated now.


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## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> So you are now completely backing down on the no contact demand as she knew that you would. For the last few days you were insisting that she had respond to your request to cut off all contact with the affair partner, and that you did not need to verify this because she knew how you felt about it and was responding to your request with "action" which is more important than "words". You pointed to this as proof that she cared to fix the marraige. Now that you have stopped triumphantly telling us how many days she has not had contact with her affair partner, and have now completely backed off of insisting on no contact, I have to ask, did she have contact with the affair partner again?
> 
> She has know a local guy that she met three years ago at a gym, invited this guy into her part time business, communicates with this guy 10,000s of times, and you do not know him? Ever ask her why?


I never said she had to go NO CONTACT, I said she had to limit that friendship to a level of other male friendships. I was mostly upset at the daily nature of it.

I'm fairly certain if she was cheating she would have hid it better. She probably didn't bring it up because she knew I'd have issues with it with him being a workout buddy etc. So in essence she didn't bring it up.

Its not the first time I talked to her about him... now she is following proper boundaries and limiting contact with him.

I did ask why... she stated she relates better to men than females and that he was like other previous male friendships... she gave examples of people I knew.... I disagreed because of the volume of daily contact... so she listened finally and decided to limit contact.

She likely won't introduce me to him as she knows I don't like his behaviors and the fact he didn't back off. I'd give him an earful if we met.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think you are all off base...


Of course you do!



Trying2figureitout said:


> I do not believe my wife was involved in a full blown affair... neither does she. It was more of a boundary crossing than and affair. It did probably make our situation drag out. Now its under control. BY definition though it is an EA just based on the amount of contact and the secrecy... so I accept it was one but don't believe it was too bad, I don't believe there were deep sexual/love feelings involved. I asked her directly if she had any feelings for him... her answer was NO. Part of the issue is I never ever restricted her from her activities... so she pushed it in the end. Now we have some boundaries in place.


You STILL won't VERIFY! You have NO CLUE whether she is/was LYING to you because you REFUSE TO CHECK! An EA is BAD, no matter HOW LONG it has gone on and no matter HOW DEEPLY THEY WERE INVOLVED. This is the thing you just CANNOT seem to grasp, no matter how much we try to show you. It doesn't matter how far into it she got. It was still a betrayal. She STILL cheated, no matter how much you want to turn a blind eye to it. You take her word for it... and she knows you so well. She KNOWS you won't check up. She KNOWS you will believe every word she says!



Trying2figureitout said:


> The sexless period was partly my doing standing up to her. Keep in mind she can hold grudges like nobody I know. I set some "criteria" of what a return to sex would look like... told her I was done with the old sexlife as that caused our issue in the first place.


And, because you, as her husband, said "we NEED a better sex life"... she holds a grudge? Because you, as her husband, WANT her, and NEED that intimacy, she holds a grudge against you? LMAO! Do you NOT see how RIDICULOUS that sounds?!?!?!



Trying2figureitout said:


> Part of my criteria is we have sex once she fully reconnects.. I will not accept any pity sex or disinterested sex. She knows she has to wrap her mind around reconnecting with me fully which takes time.


And... this "criteria" you set forth... HOW long ago? When she was avoiding you EACH AND EVERY NIGHT? When she was expending her energy on the gym, OM, and her friends, rather than spend time with the man she vowed to love and to cherish for the rest of her life? Really???



Trying2figureitout said:


> The injury did involve surgery and to this day she experiences complications from it. So that has been her main focus since December. Our longstanding sex issue got put on the back burner. She does not sleep through the night due to pain.


My injury required surgery as well. My hip was fractured and dislocated. I required physical therapy 2-3 times each week once I got home. I have bad knees, bad back, and still have pain in that hip. I often need to use a cane or even one of those amigo carts at the store if I am going to be there for hours... and yet, I am STILL able to have sex with my husband... who has back pain which requires him to take medication to dull the pain. He has other problems due to other medications which have lessened his libido... and yet, he STILL manages to have sex at LEAST once a week. He shows affection the rest of the time, as do I. THAT is how you reconnect. Not by printing out articles and giving "criteria". You want the reconnection... MAKE it happen. Spend time together. MAKE time to do things together. Oh, and stop making bullsh!t excuses too.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Now she is far enough along I decided to fix our sex issue and the extended contact with her gym buddy. We are doing much better and both agree our issue needs fully resolved.



Well, that's good that she agrees things need to be resolved. And, hopefully, she has truly given up her AP.



Trying2figureitout said:


> So you can pencil her as some cheater if you want. I more believe it is a friendship that went too far in terms of involvement in time, Time better spent on fixing our marriage IMO. If she wants to maintain that friendship I don't care as long as it tones way down. I am not happy about the 10000+ texts per year for three years but accept that as long as she learns from it and pours more effort into our relationship. Keep in mind she is a pretty major texter so thousands of texts per month are not abnormal. I was concerned though over the amount to one individual I didn't know.


Oh FFS! I'm a big texter too. The number of texts she sent to the OM EXCEEDS the number I sent each month. I used chat programs and comparing how many were sent via that and in the game we all played together... they STILL come short of your wife's number of texts to HER OM! Face it. She was cheating... at LEAST emotionally. Not gonna hammer at the physical. But whether you want to acknowledge it or not, she was cheating.



Trying2figureitout said:


> So whatever like I said I just wanted to give an update... obviously I provide some entertainment and hopefully take your minds off your own lives.


No need to take my mind off my life. Things have greatly improved in my life in the last 7+ months. LOL No need for me to escape. But, yea, I enjoy a good drama...or comedy...from time to time. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> I have no other agenda than documenting for other benefit my journey away from a sexless marriage. I look at the last three years as a necessary course correction in my marriage. I wouldn't change a thing. Because I know my efforts will eventually pay off.


Sexless, yes. Infidelity, no. In your shoes, I'd have changed one thing: verification. But, as long as you don't mind being on the back burner for years...and years.... and years. Put off with excuse after excuse.... far be it from me to tell you that...well, I'll just leave it at that! :rofl:


----------



## TCSRedhead

That's a mighty big rug but even that won't hold all this back. 

So, what are the limits with OM and how do you verify that?

100 texts a month is ok, 101 isn't? That's like saying to an addict, you can have a little crack just not a lot.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> She was back at the gym in low capacity about 4 months after surgery.... her type of surgery takes anywhere from 6-12 months to heal to return to normal activities... she pushes the envelope on the gym because its actually a necessity for her. She developed secondary complications from original surgery which are being treated now.


And sex is excellent exercise... there is low capacity activities and high impact. If she is pushing herself at the gym, then she could have been having sex. Pushing at the gym is an excuse. She could EASILY have had "easy" sex and done "medium" exercise at the gym. Excuses, nothing more.


----------



## justbidingtime

4 months????? I'm sure then she really ramped up the texting....

The point again is that you continually change the timelines..... thus I don't know what the truth is. Everything is a moving mark. 

If she had a serious injury I apologize, but nothing computes or adds up.

I agree if you've had issues with sex and she was injured to the extent you claim, I'd be nursing her back to health and the last thing would be sex. 

But I doubt this very much was the case.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> 4 months????? I'm sure then she really ramped up the texting....
> 
> The point again is that you continually change the timelines..... thus I don't know what the truth is. Everything is a moving mark.
> 
> If she had a serious injury I apologize, but nothing computes or adds up.
> 
> I agree if you've had issues with sex and she was injured to the extent you claim, I'd be nursing her back to health and the last thing would be sex.
> 
> But I doubt this very much was the case.


I took fantastic care of her while she was injured... it drove her nuts being laid up. I myself put sex off for six months one reason I wasn't here on TAM. Now I feel it needs to be a priority in our life.

It will be.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TCSRedhead said:


> That's a mighty big rug but even that won't hold all this back.
> 
> So, what are the limits with OM and how do you verify that?
> 
> 100 texts a month is ok, 101 isn't? That's like saying to an addict, you can have a little crack just not a lot.


The limits of the other man are to have it at a level of other male friendships with occasional texts. So there is no solid number but just not daily or even close to that... more weekly as that is about that way she interacts with other males.

BTW I do mind being on the back burner. Its a difficult process.

Ideally i get her to think twice about rejection... that would get me to where I need to be with sex, I already explained to her all the self-rejection that goes on. So I believe that is where we will end up is with her much less likely to reject. That would be ideal.

I get a sense its mostly her being tired at night anyhow... she has never said otherwise. Of course she needs to find a way to make sex happen as I'm tired of that as a reason... there are many other times available. Also I believe sex makes it more likely to want sex and that we are simply caught in a vicious cycle. We need regular sex to get out of that cycle.

So that will be our next discussion.


----------



## Alyosha

Again, I just don't think there is any way in hell that a heterosexual man participates in sending hundreds of text messages per month, (THOUSANDS of text messages per year!) to a woman over the course of THREE YEARS without engaging in any physical contact with that woman. No heterosexual man who is not otherwise a complete loser with no other friend in the world would invest that much time and energy in a strictly platonic relationship. It just doesn't happen.

No way. No how. T2FIO might wait three years for a woman to sleep with him but a regular guy with other opportunities? No way.

Unless this OM is just an extremely odd dude with no other friends and no other opportunities, that part of T2FIO's story just makes no sense at all to me.

Does it to anyone else?

Typically, if the APs have physical access to each other, EAs turn to PAs quite quickly. Nothing about this story is typical or really adds up in any way.

I think this guy is the most passive-aggressive troll in the history of the world who unfortunately has A LOT of time on his hands.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> She likely won't introduce me to him as she knows I don't like his behaviors and the fact he didn't back off. I'd give him an earful if we met.


 Once married, many people do not have opposite sex friends. Those that do have opposite sex friends have rules that require that the opposite sex friend be a friend of the marriage and that spouse would always be made to be welcome to socialize with them. The fact that your wife has an opposite sex friend that she has been so close to for 3 years, that you have never met, and is not a friend of the marriage, is inappropriate and disrespectful to you even if they were just friends. Also, if you actually read the "Not Just Friends" book that you bought, you would know that once a person crosses the line into becoming an emotional affair partner, they can never again be allowed to become just friends again. They cannot unlearn the closeness they have, and full no contact must occur if the spouse is to have a chance again.

Bottom line is that what you have accepted and are willing to continue to accept will not work. Albert Einstein once defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". At 3 years going on 4 years, at what point to you start to understand that what you are doing is insane.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Alyosha - we've all said the same thing over and over again.

So, she's laid up for 4 months while you nurse her back to health and no sex even after all that. Then, she feels better and has energy to go to the gym, still no sex. Then she still has plenty of energy to send texts to another man, still no sex. Let's not forget the energy to dress up and go out with her girlfriends, not even a drunken night of sex coming home. 

It's funny that even with hubby's multiple back surgeries (laminectomy, fusion and then insertion of a spinal cord stimulator), we still had sex at least once a month during that time. Actually, we still had sex while I had an EA. That's with me holding down a full time job, being a mom to two teenage daughters and keeping up with housework and laundry.


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## vi_bride04

Well I think since he feels his wife believes she is not in an affair, things are going to work out just fine. 



Alot of "beliefs" and "thoughts" and "assumptions"

I have not seen alot of fact in this thread. His optimism is clouding the obvious.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TCSRedhead said:


> Alyosha - we've all said the same thing over and over again.
> 
> So, she's laid up for 4 months while you nurse her back to health and no sex even after all that. Then, she feels better and has energy to go to the gym, still no sex. Then she still has plenty of energy to send texts to another man, still no sex. Let's not forget the energy to dress up and go out with her girlfriends, not even a drunken night of sex coming home.
> 
> It's funny that even with hubby's multiple back surgeries (laminectomy, fusion and then insertion of a spinal cord stimulator), we still had sex at least once a month during that time. Actually, we still had sex while I had an EA. That's with me holding down a full time job, being a mom to two teenage daughters and keeping up with housework and laundry.


I agree we should be having more sex.

I find it odd that she wouldn't see the need more. I see the tired aspect but again we managed it before so that is not a valid excuse in my book. I think a lot has to do with her wanting to "feel" it again which she claims she has felt but it hasn't been consistent because of my actions even though I tend to space out conversations. She claims she was almost ready last time I started conversing.... she says she tries to enjoy my touch again, she actually admitted to the fact she did have feelings returning to her but not consistently yet. Problem is she won't go outside herself to find ways of making that happen sooner as in counseling etc. Its all me trying to "educate" her. Slowly I am getting through she is allowing more and more contact.

I don't know I'm not a woman... but she did essentially shut off all emotions three years ago.... which I feel is ridiculous....and childish.

In essence it seems she needs a certain amount of time to fully reconnect. Keep in mind we have limited time together also due to work schedules.

I look at from the standpoint...ok fine BUT enough is enough.
I believe her and I have reached an understanding there. She understands the time that's passed.

In reality there have not been a lot of attempts.... so now that we are on more solid understanding my attempts will increase. Which ultimately will lead to regular sex.

I cannot explain the thousands of texts...best explanation is my wife admits a texting addiction. As for the guy that was my point to her ...I don't see why he would invest the time either. Honestly. They do seem to support each others interests... again that sounds like an EA. 

But who knows... perhaps he too has a texting addiction. Shes probably perfectly fine getting the attention she seems to need that a lot.


----------



## Entropy3000

Just wishing this thread a happy Thanksgiving. Wishing everyone more sex to be thankful for.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I never said she had to go NO CONTACT, I said she had to limit that friendship to a level of other male friendships.


 Although you never demanded it to her face, you stated that you expected it from her if she cared about the marraige and proudly stated that she had done so on her own. When ask to confirm this by asking her, you said that asking her was not needed since action speaks louder than words. Below are a few of your quotes:

"Shes pretty much re-connected but still had this guy in her life... I had to extract him somehow." (Post dated 11-14-2012, 05:43 PM)

Her not texting the OM cold turkey is a pretty big step and she did that without me stating she had too.... I told her she could keep him as a friend if it was that important to her.... I think she finally understood he really wasn't a friend but a threat to her marriage and was hurting our family. (Post dated 11-14-2012, 06:25 PM)

So again I ask, has she been in contact with him again?


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
You have bought into two concepts that virtually guarantee your marriage will stay the way it currently is:
1. Your wife is allowed to define you and your behavior however she wants, without any boundaries on your part 
2. Sex is either: she feels desire outright and it's great or she is going to lie there, legs spread and let you masturbate inside her

You allow your wife to cake eat every day via number 1. I will illustrate by counter example. What would happen if I came on here and said: 

My wife and I constantly fight about money. The truth is I make all the money, and have a high paying job. But I am very cheap with her due to past resentments. She is however good in bed so we have always had a fantastic sex life. And she is also angry I don't spend much quality time with her but the thing is I have those past resentments, so I don't want to. 

I would get incinerated, for being a parasite. As I should. Because if she is that bad a wife, I should stop taking without giving. 

As for (2), you have once again let your wife set the agenda. This is an extension of her primary theme with you which is: she keeps you as low on the priority scale as possible, usually that puts you last, but no matter what you are never first. 

Because if you and she EVER contemplated the notion of putting you first then sex would have a third option. And that option is to make it all about you and in the process have as much fun herself as possible. It would reflect the idea that you and your desire to feel loved actually matter. 

Without addressing those two things, you are lost. And frankly her abuse of the 'T2 isn't perfect' therefore I am resentful, therefore I feel no desire and will at most lie on my back and spread my legs. 

And this is why I told you 2 years ago to stop giving her daily foot rubs and insist she give you a back massage a couple times a week. It is a non sexual pattern of her putting you first. Apparently she has the energy for daily workouts but not that. 
There is ZERO chance she will feel spontaneous sexual desire which means that in January at your next checkpoint she will immediately offer to lie back and spread for you. Fyi:that is HER plan. And. When pushed she will say she loves you but it isn't her fault for not feeling desire, and if you must she will let you hump her. 
Or if you scare her enough, she will pretend feeling desire but continue to lie to your face with excuses as to why she can't do 'it'. more than once a month.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree we should be having more sex.
> 
> I find it odd that she wouldn't see the need more. I see the tired aspect but again we managed it before so that is not a valid excuse in my book. I think a lot has to do with her wanting to "feel" it again which she claims she has felt but it hasn't been consistent because of my actions even though I tend to space out conversations. She claims she was almost ready last time I started conversing.... she says she tries to enjoy my touch again, she actually admitted to the fact she did have feelings returning to her but not consistently yet. Problem is she won't go outside herself to find ways of making that happen sooner as in counseling etc. Its all me trying to "educate" her. Slowly I am getting through she is allowing more and more contact.
> 
> I don't know I'm not a woman... but she did essentially shut off all emotions three years ago.... which I feel is ridiculous....and childish.
> 
> In essence it seems she needs a certain amount of time to fully reconnect. Keep in mind we have limited time together also due to work schedules.
> 
> I look at from the standpoint...ok fine BUT enough is enough.
> I believe her and I have reached an understanding there. She understands the time that's passed.
> 
> In reality there have not been a lot of attempts.... so now that we are on more solid understanding my attempts will increase. Which ultimately will lead to regular sex.
> 
> I cannot explain the thousands of texts...best explanation is my wife admits a texting addiction. As for the guy that was my point to her ...I don't see why he would invest the time either. Honestly. They do seem to support each others interests... again that sounds like an EA.
> 
> But who knows... perhaps he too has a texting addiction. Shes probably perfectly fine getting the attention she seems to need that a lot.


She has the OM. As long as he is in the picture even just texting "weekly" vs. "daily", she will NEVER feel that connection you speak of towards you. Ever. Never.

I'm a woman. I was texting someone a quarter of the texts your wife sends OM and i was very heavily invested emotionally. There is no way I would have given anyone else that type of an emotional investment while texting that much with someone.

Don't you find it ironic that her feelings of closeness towards you faded the same time the OM came into the picture??? Don't you want to investigate that? And I don't mean by asking your wife, I mean doing some actual "detective" work.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> You have bought into two concepts that virtually guarantee your marriage will stay the way it currently is:
> 1. Your wife is allowed to define you and your behavior however she wants, without any boundaries on your part
> 2. Sex is either: she feels desire outright and it's great or she is going to lie there, legs spread and let you masturbate inside her
> 
> You allow your wife to cake eat every day via number 1. I will illustrate by counter example. What would happen if I came on here and said:
> 
> My wife and I constantly fight about money. The truth is I make all the money, and have a high paying job. But I am very cheap with her due to past resentments. She is however good in bed so we have always had a fantastic sex life. And she is also angry I don't spend much quality time with her but the thing is I have those past resentments, so I don't want to.
> 
> I would get incinerated, for being a parasite. As I should. Because if she is that bad a wife, I should stop taking without giving.
> 
> As for (2), you have once again let your wife set the agenda. This is an extension of her primary theme with you which is: she keeps you as low on the priority scale as possible, usually that puts you last, but no matter what you are never first.
> 
> Because if you and she EVER contemplated the notion of putting you first then sex would have a third option. And that option is to make it all about you and in the process have as much fun herself as possible. It would reflect the idea that you and your desire to feel loved actually matter.
> 
> Without addressing those two things, you are lost. And frankly her abuse of the 'T2 isn't perfect' therefore I am resentful, therefore I feel no desire and will at most lie on my back and spread my legs.
> 
> And this is why I told you 2 years ago to stop giving her daily foot rubs and insist she give you a back massage a couple times a week. It is a non sexual pattern of her putting you first. Apparently she has the energy for daily workouts but not that.
> There is ZERO chance she will feel spontaneous sexual desire which means that in January at your next checkpoint she will immediately offer to lie back and spread for you. Fyi:that is HER plan. And. When pushed she will say she loves you but it isn't her fault for not feeling desire, and if you must she will let you hump her.
> Or if you scare her enough, she will pretend feeling desire but continue to lie to your face with excuses as to why she can't do 'it'. more than once a month.


While I understand your points... here is what I believe will happen.

She will decrease most all rejections.
By having sex she will feel more desire and by having a better husband that will re-enforce a normal sex life.

Now that won't be enough, her and I do need to discuss sex further and in general her role in our relationship building... so far it hasn't gone into a detailed two way discussion. The best aspect of all of this is that her and I can communicate much better. I'll save that topic for January.

We will find a workable middle ground... and enjoy a much better and balanced marriage.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> She has the OM. As long as he is in the picture even just texting "weekly" vs. "daily", she will NEVER feel that connection you speak of towards you. Ever. Never.
> 
> I'm a woman. I was texting someone a quarter of the texts your wife sends OM and i was very heavily invested emotionally. There is no way I would have given anyone else that type of an emotional investment while texting that much with someone.
> 
> Don't you find it ironic that her feelings of closeness towards you faded the same time the OM came into the picture??? Don't you want to investigate that? And I don't mean by asking your wife, I mean doing some actual "detective" work.


I do find it ironic... as in her other behaviors at the time.... more gym, shaving pubs, sexy panties etc.

So of course I'm not stupid... it looks like a duck.

Now just because it looks like a duck doesn't in every case mean its a duck. I still think it was an EA. That is why I posted here. 
I think through in my wife's eyes it isn't however she sees a boundary was crossed and therefore I believe it to be not a full blown one where she had strong feelings for him... some feelings but not loving ones... that's IMO.

The lack of sex is more about our relationship and her tiredness than anything external IMO but less contact with the OM is certainly better than more contact.

I notice a change in my wife from before just when we talk. Also in her general demeanor. Its just a matter of time until sex occurs... it really is the last domino to fall. I hope it happens soon as i'm pretty over this. Actually I think she is also.... its hard on both of us.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> While I understand your points... here is what I believe will happen.
> 
> She will decrease most all rejections.
> By having sex she will feel more desire and by having a better husband that will re-enforce a normal sex life.
> 
> Now that won't be enough, her and I do need to discuss sex further... so far it hasn't gone into a detailed two way discussion. The best aspect of all of this is that her and I can communicate much better. I'll save that topic for January.
> 
> We will find a workable middle ground.


No, not until OM is out if the picture. When she stops having sex with the OM she may decide to have sex with you, but not until. 

Beliefs and hopes and dreams and assumptions don't work at disabling affairs. Only swift and harsh consequences. 

In January you will be back saying, I give it until March until we start having sex and OM is still her friend.


----------



## justbidingtime

I'm sorry that you keep grasping at straws and hoping an LD wife (15-20X/yr at the peak) will all of a sudden turn into your sex kitten.

Three years of nothing but excuses and sadly you have ignored the one question I asked in my last post that there unfortunately is no satisfying answer:

*Ask her for me whether she has masturbated at all in the last 3 years. Unfortunately there is no right answer. If the answer is no, then she just doesn't care for sex and certainly not with you and thus the sex you want will never ever be, or cared so little and was so disconnected that she'd rather do it herself or has had an affair.*

It is a "no win" situation, but will hopefully knock some sense into you.

How about also asking how she feels about what she has put you through???? You've written letter, made proclamations and told her how you feel and then you back down and state she has a "texting addiction", is a "social butterfly" and "Holds grudges". 

*OMG I forgot about the shaved pubes & sexy panties*.... I can't keep up with you T2FIO 

There is no winning this battle......


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> I do find it ironic... as in her other behaviors at the time.... more gym, shaving pubs, sexy panties etc.
> 
> So of course I'm not stupid... it looks like a duck.
> 
> Now just because it looks like a duck doesn't in every case mean its a duck. I still think it was an EA. That is why I posted here.


Sorry, but women don't shave their pubes and buy sexy lingerie if they are not having sex.....period.

its a pain in the @ss to shave pubes and I sure as hell don't do it just to masturbate...lmao


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> I'm sorry that you keep grasping at straws and hoping an LD wife (15-20X/yr at the peak) will all of a sudden turn into your sex kitten.
> 
> Three years of nothing but excuses and sadly you have ignored the one question I asked in my last post that there unfortunately is no satisfying answer:
> 
> *Ask her for me whether she has masturbated at all in the last 3 years. Unfortunately there is no right answer. If the answer is no, then she just doesn't care for sex and certainly not with you and thus the sex you want will never ever be, or cared so little and was so disconnected that she'd rather do it herself or has had an affair.*
> 
> It is a "no win" situation, but will hopefully knock some sense into you.
> 
> How about also asking how she feels about what she has put you through???? You've written letter, made proclamations and told her how you feel and then you back down and state she has a "texting addiction", is a "social butterfly" and "Holds grudges".
> 
> *OMG I forgot about the shaved pubes & sexy panties*.... I can't keep up with you T2FIO
> 
> There is no winning this battle......


I'll ask about her masturbation in January.
She understands the stress I'm under.

I don't expect her to turn into a sex kitten... all I expect is a relatively normal sex life now that we have gone through a correction period.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> Sorry, but women don't shave their pubes and buy sexy lingerie if they are not having sex.....period.
> 
> its a pain in the @ss to shave pubes and I sure as hell don't do it just to masturbate...lmao


MLC


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> No, not until OM is out if the picture. When she stops having sex with the OM she may decide to have sex with you, but not until.
> 
> Beliefs and hopes and dreams and assumptions don't work at disabling affairs. Only swift and harsh consequences.
> 
> In January you will be back saying, I give it until March until we start having sex and OM is still her friend.


If it was an actual affair... I still am not 100% positive it was. It wasn't helping our marriage though. Now shes addressed it.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> MLC


Wait....you are attributing her shaving her pubes to a MLC???

Know what else happens during a MLC? Affairs!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Don't you ll all see my method... its slow and unrelenting 

She will comply at some point. Guaranteed.


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## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> Wait....you are attributing her shaving her pubes to a MLC???
> 
> Know what else happens during a MLC? Affairs!


Newsflash she had an EA the severity of it though is in question.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> If it was an actual affair... I still am not 100% positive it was. It wasn't helping our marriage though. Now shes addressed it.


You would know for sure if you did some detective work.

You should prove us all wrong that it wasn't an affair. Do some investigating.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> You would know for sure if you did some detective work.
> 
> You should prove us all wrong that it wasn't an affair. Do some investigating.


I'm done with that affair... rather focusing on reconnecting and reestablishing a sexlife.


----------



## justbidingtime

She's checked out of the marriage for 3+ years. EA's according to those here are often worse then PA's (not that I agree, but just stating a fact). Whether she had sex or not as said really doesn't/shouldn't matter to T2FIO. What does matter is 3+ years of his life has been turned upside down and she really couldn't care less.......

Forget a middling to lousy sex life prior.


----------



## daisygirl 41

Trying2figureitout said:


> MLC


No no no!!! What Vi_bride said.
Woman do not do those things unless they are having sex or HOPING to have sex with someone!
Geez!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm done with that affair... rather focusing on reconnecting and reestablishing a sexlife.


But your wife isn't done with it. 

Until she is you will be the only one in your marriage working towards those goals. 

I believe you will come to this same conclusion someday ...i hope....

you don't deserve to be in such an unfulfilling relationship, no one does


----------



## vi_bride04

justbidingtime said:


> She's checked out of the marriage for 3+ years. EA's according to those here are often worse then PA's (not that I agree, but just stating a fact). Whether she had sex or not as said really doesn't/shouldn't matter to T2FIO. What does matter is 3+ years of his life has been turned upside down and she really couldn't care less.......
> 
> Forget a middling to lousy sex life prior.


I'm going to say an EA is way worse for a wife due to women being such emotional creatures.

T2 You will never have that type of emotional attachment with your wife as long as she is friends with that man. you just can't compete with that high she gets from him.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I do find it ironic... as in her other behaviors at the time.... more gym, shaving pubs, sexy panties etc.


 OK so 3 years ago she meets the other man at the gym, has at least an emotional affair with him and thus he becomes her affair partner. Although she is very close to him for 3 years and even invites him into her side business, she never has you meet the affair partner in 3 years. When she meets him she ignores your feelings that he is not a friend of the marraige and begins what is defined as a sexless marriage, increases going to the gym to work out with the affair partner, shaves her pubs but not for you (many men prefer shaved for oral sex), and begins to wear sexy panties again not for you (you are not getting sex), and you think that they never had sex? 

I know that you have been trying to dodge the question, but I will ask again, has she had any recent contact with her affair partner?


----------



## TCSRedhead

Oh lordy - I missed the shaving her bikini area bit. Dude - wake up! It's a PA. 

Holy mackerel. The only reason I started shaving was when I started sleeping with my husband because he preferred it (we were dating then).


----------



## justbidingtime

TCSRedhead said:


> Oh lordy - I missed the shaving her bikini area bit. Dude - wake up! It's a PA.
> 
> Holy mackerel. The only reason I started shaving was when I started sleeping with my husband because he preferred it (we were dating then).


So what if it is????? T2FIO doesn't care. He just wants a sexually fulfilling happy marriage with his wife and doesn't care about the last 3+ years, her lies, terrible behaviour, being treated as a cuckold or anything if his needs are met going forward.

What he doesn't grasp is that this is not happening and she's given no indication that she's remorseful or wants this for the both of them.

Forget the PA...... T2FIO has stuck his head in the sand, plugged his ears and just wants to ignore not just the last 3-4 years, the ILBNILWY, but the entirety of his marriage to her.


----------



## TCSRedhead

justbidingtime said:


> So what if it is????? T2FIO doesn't care. He just wants a sexually fulfilling happy marriage with his wife and doesn't care about the last 3+ years, her lies, terrible behaviour, being treated as a cuckold or anything if his needs are met going forward.
> 
> What he doesn't grasp is that this is not happening and she's given no indication that she's remorseful or wants this for the both of them.
> 
> Forget the PA...... T2FIO already says he doesn't care.


Yeah well I want to be wealthy like Oprah with the body of Heidi Klum. That's more likely than T2FIO getting lucky with his wife on a regular basis.


----------



## vi_bride04

justbidingtime said:


> So what if it is????? T2FIO doesn't care. He just wants a sexually fulfilling happy marriage with his wife and doesn't care about the last 3+ years, her lies, terrible behaviour, being treated as a cuckold or anything if his needs are met going forward.
> 
> What he doesn't grasp is that this is not happening and she's given no indication that she's remorseful or wants this for the both of them.
> 
> Forget the PA...... T2FIO already says he doesn't care.


Affair forgotten... 

let's sweep the OM under that rug too...right next to the pubes...heh


----------



## tamii

Trying2figureitout said:


> I do find it ironic... as in her other behaviors at the time.... more gym, *shaving pubs, sexy panties* etc.


Been lurking without commenting. At times, I've admired your steadfastness in wanting to mend your marriage but after reading this about shaved pubes and sexy panties, I'm going to have to say it's not looking good for you, sorry.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
You do realize that everything turns on this one concept - which is that of you NEVER coming first.

And this is where you and I are so radically different. If my W had a blatant affair and was at the back end of denying me sex for 3 years, the LAST thing in the world I would do is postpone sex until after the holidays. 

If my W was not willing to put me first EVER - I would not accept a holiday gift from her, nor give her one. 

You are pretending everything will be all right - plan to give her an IPAD 3 for Christmas and then hope that she will connect with you in January. 

You cannot buy your way out of this T2. 




Trying2figureitout said:


> While I understand your points... here is what I believe will happen.
> 
> She will decrease most all rejections.
> By having sex she will feel more desire and by having a better husband that will re-enforce a normal sex life.
> 
> Now that won't be enough, her and I do need to discuss sex further and in general her role in our relationship building... so far it hasn't gone into a detailed two way discussion. The best aspect of all of this is that her and I can communicate much better. I'll save that topic for January.
> 
> We will find a workable middle ground... and enjoy a much better and balanced marriage.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> MLC


*SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!?!*

Dude, no, no, no, no... Just... no. Just.. Just... No. Oh, HELL! I can't even get past that. You seriously think she SHAVES HER PUBES and buys SEXY lingerie... and doesn't let YOU partake in any way, shape or form because.... she's having a MIDLIFE CRISIS?!?!?! Are you fvcking KIDDING ME?!?!?! You have all of this, right before your eyes... and. dude, no. no fvcking way. Nu uh. Seriously, As Vi said, it's a pain in the ass to shave them all the time. Hell, even keeping trim is a pain in the ass. But worth it if it pleases your LOVER (in the case of married couples, one would hope that lover is the SPOUSE). But dude? Seriously? T2, if you're not yanking our chain... you are so far down the denial road... just... ugh! NO, man! C'mon now! She did this FOR HER LOVER! WTF?!?!

Look, I can accept the gym thing,... kinda. Needs to work up the muscles again after having to be bedridden for awhile. I can see that because I was bedridden for awhile. But dude! C'mon, now.


----------



## MEM2020

M,
This is part of T2 being delusional. Plus, if he wanted he could demand she either:
1. Grant him access to her text messages or 
2. Acknowledge that she has had a full throttle PA for a long time now

He won't do either. He doesn't want to face the fact that some other man may have had more sex with his wife in the space of 2 years, than he has during their whole marriage. 





Maricha75 said:


> *SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!?!*
> 
> Dude, no, no, no, no... Just... no. Just.. Just... No. Oh, HELL! I can't even get past that. You seriously think she SHAVES HER PUBES and buys SEXY lingerie... and doesn't let YOU partake in any way, shape or form because.... she's having a MIDLIFE CRISIS?!?!?! Are you fvcking KIDDING ME?!?!?! You have all of this, right before your eyes... and. dude, no. no fvcking way. Nu uh. Seriously, As Vi said, it's a pain in the ass to shave them all the time. Hell, even keeping trim is a pain in the ass. But worth it if it pleases your LOVER (in the case of married couples, one would hope that lover is the SPOUSE). But dude? Seriously? T2, if you're not yanking our chain... you are so far down the denial road... just... ugh! NO, man! C'mon now! She did this FOR HER LOVER! WTF?!?!
> 
> Look, I can accept the gym thing,... kinda. Needs to work up the muscles again after having to be bedridden for awhile. I can see that because I was bedridden for awhile. But dude! C'mon, now.


----------



## vi_bride04

T2....

Have you, by yourself, at least gone to a counselor or sex therapist to ask about your wifes "sexless" attitude in the marriage?

Just wondering if a professional might help you figure out what's going on.


----------



## justbidingtime

MEM11363 said:


> M,
> This is part of T2 being delusional. Plus, if he wanted he could demand she either:
> 1. Grant him access to her text messages or
> 2. Acknowledge that she has had a full throttle PA for a long time now
> 
> He won't do either. He doesn't want to face the fact that some other man may have had more sex with his wife in the space of 2 years, than he has during their whole marriage.


Why does he want to face that fact???? He doesn't and he thinks he has got his wife back.... So in a way I get that. Why does he want all the gory details and to realize the last 3+ years has been an utter failure if he has the wife he dreams of going forward????

If he does get her back, I am happy for him and actually he is well ahead of many here on CWI and their continual talk of triggers and controlling their spouses so affairs (EA's/PA's) never happen again.....

It's him being disingenuous coming to CWI and posting about an EA that was just a speed bump on his road to recovery that got me riled up.....


----------



## jim123

He is kind of like Wiley E Coyote. So smart in trying to get that bird.


----------



## MEM2020

JBT,
Here's why he NEEDS to face that fact. She has managed to make the sahara of their marriage all about him. If he wants a balanced marriage, he needs to be willing to deal with reality. 

As for him not wanting to know, it is just one more contributor to her perception of him being driven mostly by fear. In this case "he can't handle the truth" type fear. 




justbidingtime said:


> Why does he want to face that fact???? He doesn't and he thinks he has got his wife back.... So in a way I get that. Why does he want all the gory details and to realize the last 3+ years has been an utter failure if he has the wife he dreams of going forward????
> 
> If he does get her back, I am happy for him and actually he is well ahead of many here on CWI and their continual talk of triggers and controlling their spouses so affairs (EA's/PA's) never happen again.....
> 
> It's him being disingenuous coming to CWI and posting about an EA that was just a speed bump on his road to recovery that got me riled up.....


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I don't think I'm delusional but I cannot let this go on much longer either.

I do plan if needed to hold my wife accountable. My needs need to be more of a priority.

I feel demanding she show me texts to be a form of privacy invasion. If it has to come to that then it just isn't worth it.

Now in January we'll have a different type discussion if thing don't improve... we've had some deep ones and I fully expect her to react to those. If she doesn't then we will have to ramp up the accountability on her part.

Either it gets easier or harder... her choice.

I still believe her and I are on the road to total recovery.
We'll see if I am misguided in my assessment.

Really if I found out she were having sex with another guy it wouldn't really phase me at this point. I don't think she has though.

As for a counselor if things don't improve by January I'll suggest that and go alone if necessary in order to explore other options.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> *SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?!?!*
> 
> Dude, no, no, no, no... Just... no. Just.. Just... No. Oh, HELL! I can't even get past that. You seriously think she SHAVES HER PUBES and buys SEXY lingerie... and doesn't let YOU partake in any way, shape or form because.... she's having a MIDLIFE CRISIS?!?!?! Are you fvcking KIDDING ME?!?!?! You have all of this, right before your eyes... and. dude, no. no fvcking way. Nu uh. Seriously, As Vi said, it's a pain in the ass to shave them all the time. Hell, even keeping trim is a pain in the ass. But worth it if it pleases your LOVER (in the case of married couples, one would hope that lover is the SPOUSE). But dude? Seriously? T2, if you're not yanking our chain... you are so far down the denial road... just... ugh! NO, man! C'mon now! She did this FOR HER LOVER! WTF?!?!
> 
> Look, I can accept the gym thing,... kinda. Needs to work up the muscles again after having to be bedridden for awhile. I can see that because I was bedridden for awhile. But dude! C'mon, now.


I've had sex with her after she shaved pubes. So its not like it was off limits to me for her lover. I think the shaving and lingerie was probably in a way for her to feel more desirable since her and I had issues. 

Sort of like they say men should do... get fit, new clothes etc.
That's the advice here yet no one advocates cheating.
Who's to say that isn't what she did...perhaps as a way to send a message.

Again she either had a PA or didn't.

At this point I believe after all the evidence she didn't have any physical affair even though just a few weeks ago I was certain of one.

Just goes to show I can be wrong about "evidence"


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> You do realize that everything turns on this one concept - which is that of you NEVER coming first.
> 
> And this is where you and I are so radically different. If my W had a blatant affair and was at the back end of denying me sex for 3 years, the LAST thing in the world I would do is postpone sex until after the holidays.
> 
> If my W was not willing to put me first EVER - I would not accept a holiday gift from her, nor give her one.
> 
> You are pretending everything will be all right - plan to give her an IPAD 3 for Christmas and then hope that she will connect with you in January.
> 
> You cannot buy your way out of this T2.


I bought the Ipad3/case/warranty for her birthday (she actually uses it for her work) so she gets no xmas gift

I already told her I didn't need a gift from her for xmas as she already bought me some expensive sunglasses.

I expect to connect before Christmas hopefully this weekend.


----------



## keko

My opinion, even when you realize she's been having a PA, you're not going to anything about it so why drag it out? Ignorance is a bliss for some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kasler

You've been told. 

We've all seen this before, we should put threads like yours and stuckmick's in a "dangers of rugsweeping/putting your head in the sand" section

I truly hope it works out for you, but so far this whole thing has the look of one nasty trainwreck.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

keko said:


> My opinion, even when you realize she's been having a PA, you're not going to anything about it so why drag it out? Ignorance is a bliss for some.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I had solid proof of PA I'd divorce her, I already gave her one chance to fess up if she had one... now that chance has passed. She said flat out the relationship was only talk, not and EA or PA... according to her.


----------



## Kasler

Trying2figureitout said:


> *If I had solid proof of PA I'd divorce her*, I already gave her one chance to fess up if she had one... now that chance has passed. She said flat out the relationship was only talk, not and EA or PA... according to her.


----------



## warlock07

Can't watch this train wreck...I would genuinely be relived if this was a extended troll effort..It would be more logical that way..



> I've had sex with her after she shaved pubes. So its not like it was off limits to me for her lover. I think the shaving and lingerie was probably in a way for her to feel more desirable since her and I had issues.


Man..seriously??


If I had solid proof of PA I'd divorce her,

Which is why you will do nothing to find out anything more..cause you might come upon solid evidence and might actually have to divorce her. Nothing will change or you will get some pity sex at the most. So you will need to gather the evidence anyhow, atleast after the holidays. Or would you just move on ?


----------



## Lyris

So which is it? If she'd had sex with another man it wouldn't faze you, or if she had a PA you'd divorce her? 

And, obviously, she was having sex with that guy. No woman ever, anywhere, has shaved her pubic hair for any reason other than sex.


----------



## Kasler

Saying women don't shave their pubes in anticipation for sex is nearly the same as saying most guys don't bring condoms when they go on dates.


----------



## Chaparral

The only thing you have proof of is when you finally showed her the EA list is that she now knows you know she is in an affair.

No one here has ever said, gosh I didn't know I was in an affair, sorry, I'll quit. What they always do is breakdown, apologize try their damdest, hysterically bond or................hide the affair better.

Which in your case you have made super easy. You have the worst set of red flags here I have seen since coming to TAM.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> If I had solid proof of PA I'd divorce her, I already gave her one chance to fess up if she had one... now that chance has passed. She said flat out the relationship was only talk, not and EA or PA... according to her.


And the sad thing about that is.......

*YOU WON'T LOOK FOR REAL, SOLID PROOF BECAUSE YOU ARE SCARED TO REALIZE THE TRUTH.... YOUR WIFE IS HAVING SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN!!!!*

You have been told how to find the proof you need, but you prefer to live your life, blissfully "unaware" of her cheating. You choose to blindly accept her explanations as truth. WTFE. This whole situation is UFB... PATHETIC at best. Checking up on a cheater isn't an invasion of privacy. Perhaps you will feel better when she comes home with an STD and THEN decides to have sex with you... giving YOU that STD? Will that be proof enough for you? Good GOD man, grow some balls! This is PATHETIC!!


----------



## Chaparral

Whether you are willing to acknowledge it or not is eating away at you. If you let this continue, your love will erode to the point that finding out she wan't in a PA eventually, will be a moot point.

Get the texts and you have something to build on.


----------



## WyshIknew

Guys, I think I get where T2FIO is coming from.

He has waited 3 years so far so what does it matter if he waits a bit longer?

He has set a target of January/February but providing he feels there is an improvement he could wait another year or two.

Patience is a virtue.


----------



## Hicks

This is not about sex. Sex can only come after your wife becomes involved in her marriage. She is not involved in her marriage. You are a convenience to her. She is involved in her personal relationships with other men, her work, her heatlh or whatever. She is invovled in her own thing. She is not "addicted to texting".... She does not hold grudges more than other people. She is merely happy to get a man to support her emotioanlly, give her the respectiability, support her financially while she enjoys the freedom to do whatever she wants.


----------



## Kasler

Maricha75 said:


> And the sad thing about that is.......
> 
> *YOU WON'T LOOK FOR REAL, SOLID PROOF BECAUSE YOU ARE SCARED TO REALIZE THE TRUTH.... YOUR WIFE IS HAVING SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN!!!!*
> 
> You have been told how to find the proof you need, but you prefer to live your life, blissfully "unaware" of her cheating. You choose to blindly accept her explanations as truth. WTFE. This whole situation is UFB... PATHETIC at best. Checking up on a cheater isn't an invasion of privacy. Perhaps you will feel better when she comes home with an STD and THEN decides to have sex with you... giving YOU that STD? Will that be proof enough for you? Good GOD man, grow some balls! This is PATHETIC!!


Facing the truth is a very difficult thing to do for many people. 

Its just so much easier to bury one's head in the sand or cover ones ears and shout insensible noises.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Shaving pubes, sexy undies and you didn't get to experience either for who knows how long anymore. C'mon...you're not really this dumb. You even acknowledge that it looks bad. But somehow your wife snowed you into believing that his relationship of hers was purely emotional. You can't possibly buy that without suspending rational thought and constructing the most realistic work of fiction you can think of. 

It went physical. You cannot deny it. Now what are you going to do?


----------



## WyshIknew

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Shaving pubes, sexy undies and you didn't get to experience either for who knows how long anymore. C'mon...you're not really this dumb. You even acknowledge that it looks bad. But somehow your wife snowed you into believing that his relationship of hers was purely emotional. You can't possibly buy that without suspending rational thought and constructing the most realistic work of fiction you can think of.
> 
> It went physical. You cannot deny it. Now what are you going to do?


Wait another three years?


----------



## Maricha75

WyshIknew said:


> Guys, I think I get where T2FIO is coming from.
> 
> He has waited 3 years so far so what does it matter if he waits a bit longer?
> 
> He has set a target of January/February but providing he feels there is an improvement he could wait another year or two.
> 
> Patience is a virtue.


Yes and no, Wysh. As jbt pointed out quite a few times... he keeps changing the story (trickle truth, if you will). And, he had extended the deadline MULTIPLE times... over and over. Rationalizing the behavior, when there is NO rational excuse for it. This is why some are clamoring "troll!" While others are banging their heads. T2 got bad advice somewhere and is clinging to it like it is the holy grail. It's sad, really.... very very sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

Please answer this simple question. After the recent 4 days of what you thought was the beginning of no contact with the other man, what contact did you learn about?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

WyshIknew said:


> Guys, I think I get where T2FIO is coming from.
> 
> He has waited 3 years so far so what does it matter if he waits a bit longer?
> 
> He has set a target of January/February but providing he feels there is an improvement he could wait another year or two.
> 
> Patience is a virtue.



You are on the right track although I will only "give" one more year of effort... leading up to that deadline I will institute the 180 to detach... so essence the clock is ticking.

I am very patient by nature. I desire a transformation in our marriage so I look at this as a long courting process. I see the real changes in my wife... so I have a sense of where this is going. 

She is very busy... you all have no idea. Her workload/activity level is flat out tiring to think about especially this time of year. She literally has no time or extra energy to cheat. Also for sex obviously. So it is a process to get her to allocate enough energy toward intimacy.

Texting is easy and a diversion. If I visit her at work she is literally walking so fast I have to jog to keep up with her and this is with a phone in her ear talking to an employee about something. This is even before she sees me. Its exhausting to even surprise visit her.

Her doctor just told her to keep exercising more because of a complication from her surgery.
So even what she does going to the gym daily is not enough... crazy. I know sex is more exercise so I might use that with her one day.

She is go go go...crash.

This is a concern. It seems her life has gotten busier as the years have gone on. So our sex life suffers obviously. I think she is realizing though the overall damage and risk to ignoring hat aspect of our lives. It'll get better after the holidays in terms of work.

So I have a challenge... there are reasons why my situation is so severe and it isn't all just the OM.

My wife has self image issues she ended up with scars from her injury and bruising. So she does what she can to feel better about her image. She dresses really nice and I'm sure she feels better using nicer panties and shaving.

Again I go back to guys getting fit/dressing better to try to send a message to their spouse. I don't see why women are any different. She doesn't shy away when naked or anything.

I admit there is just about every single red flag possible.

I also believe with my gut there was no PA.

So yes I'm three years in and a few more weeks or months wont kill me. There will be additional opportunities to affect change. I believe most of the change has already happened and now its just finding the right time to rebuild our sex life.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Please answer this simple question. After the recent 4 days of what you thought was the beginning of no contact with the other man, what contact did you learn about?


Last 2 days some texts in a single session. At most 7 texts back and forth.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Now it's another year? Lol I saw that coming a mile away. All the tough talk in other threads about it not being allowed to go another year was all bs talk. I predict that you'll never have her again. And that you'll support you until she tires of it or finds someone who will support her better. I predict that you will never give her any firm demands...you'll back down every time.


----------



## Maricha75

WorkingOnMe said:


> Now it's another year? Lol I saw that coming a mile away. All the tough talk in other threads about it not being allowed to go another year was all bs talk. I predict that you'll never have her again. And that you'll support you until she tires of it or finds someone who will support her better. I predict that you will never give her any firm demands...you'll back down every time.


We ALL saw "another year"...and we'll see it next year... and the next...etc. Because he sees "real changes" in her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Last 2 days some texts in a single session. At most 7 texts back and forth.


Then he hasn't been extracted. Not even close. And he won't be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Lyris said:


> So which is it? If she'd had sex with another man it wouldn't faze you, or if she had a PA you'd divorce her?
> 
> And, obviously, she was having sex with that guy. No woman ever, anywhere, has shaved her pubic hair for any reason other than sex.


I wouldn't get upset about it.. I would find that a deal breaker especially after I gave her in essence one chance if she would admit it, disclose everything, go into counseling. So she had an opportunity to clean the slate.

Her not accepting that chance means its gone.

So I'd have no other choice than to divorce.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

T2, try using Ockham's razor and reassess the facts that you know. The truth will be the simplest, most likely explanation - not something that you have to make a number of assumptions in order to believe.

Three years no sex. During this time your wife buys nice clothes, wears sexy underwear and shaves her vaginal area regularly. At the same time, she has been going to the gym working out with a partner of the opposite sex and has been in an acknowledged EA with texting and calling. On top of that, your wife has been going out on GNO's a number of times and has been having a lot of fun. 

Based on what you know, how would William of Ockham interpret this situation?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

I think what you all don't realize is I'm simply playing the odds.

It is MORE likely we resolve our issue than don't at this point. i have time on my side and also the high ground.

It would be difficult for her to continue our sexless marriage with no sex. It is easier to convert it to a sexual one. The benefits to both of us are obvious.

If I blow it all up and start some FBI investigation that does nothing positive and decreases my odds of success. I'm not going to do that.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> T2, try using Ockham's razor and reassess the facts that you know. The truth will be the simplest, most likely explanation - not something that you have to make a number of assumptions in order to believe.
> 
> Three years no sex. During this time your wife buys nice clothes, wears sexy underwear and shaves her vaginal area regularly. At the same time, she has been going to the gym working out with a partner of the opposite sex and has been in an acknowledged EA with texting and calling. On top of that, your wife has been going out on GNO's a number of times and has been having a lot of fun.
> 
> Based on what you know, how would William of Ockham interpret this situation?


That she was cheating. But you don't live with her and see the change. We had sex 9 times in those three years.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think what you all don't realize is I'm simply playing the odds.
> 
> It is MORE likely we resolve our issue than don't at this point. i have time on my side and also the high ground.
> 
> It would be difficult for her to continue our sexless marriage with no sex. It is easier to convert it to a sexual one. The benefits to both of us are obvious.
> 
> If I blow it all up and start some FBI investigation that does nothing positive and decreases my odds of success. I'm not going to do that.


What you just said is that you don't want to find out that she is actually having an affair because then you would have to divorce!

Your idea of success is to stay married. Doesn't matter if your marriage is sexless. Doesn't matter if your wife doesn't respect you. Doesn't matter if she is sleeping with others. Success is staying married.

You only live once man. You will never get the past 3 years back. You say time is on your side, but someday you will look in the mirror and realize that time has passed you by.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> That she was cheating. But you don't live with her and see the change. We had sex 9 times in those three years.


You're right, none of us live with her and we don't know her like you do. At the same time, since we don't live with her we can look at the facts more objectively while you are viewing them through the lens of your marriage - specifically what you want your marriage to be. It is also likely that you cannot analyze the situation objectively, and that is clouding your vision.

Familiarity cuts both ways in this case IMHO.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

SadSamIAm said:


> What you just said is that you don't want to find out that she is actually having an affair because then you would have to divorce!
> 
> Your idea of success is to stay married. Doesn't matter if your marriage is sexless. Doesn't matter if your wife doesn't respect you. Doesn't matter if she is sleeping with others. Success is staying married.
> 
> You only live once man. You will never get the past 3 years back. You say time is on your side, but someday you will look in the mirror and realize that time has passed you by.


I don't believe it was a PA... possible EA but not sure although it fits the criteria.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

So are all of you going to trash my plan when it actually works?

I hope not because that would be lame.

It'll work. We'll have a new better sexual marriage.

I'll gladly give 3 years for the rest of my life satisfied.
Sometimes marriages have a lull.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> You are on the right track although I will only "give" one more year of effort... leading up to that deadline I will institute the 180 to detach... so essence the clock is ticking.
> 
> I am very patient by nature. I desire a transformation in our marriage so I look at this as a long courting process. I see the real changes in my wife... so I have a sense of where this is going.
> 
> She is very busy... you all have no idea. Her workload/activity level is flat out tiring to think about especially this time of year. She literally has no time or extra energy to cheat. Also for sex obviously. So it is a process to get her to allocate enough energy toward intimacy.
> 
> Texting is easy and a diversion. If I visit her at work she is literally walking so fast I have to jog to keep up with her and this is with a phone in her ear talking to an employee about something. This is even before she sees me. Its exhausting to even surprise visit her.
> 
> Her doctor just told her to keep exercising more because of a complication from her surgery.
> So even what she does going to the gym daily is not enough... crazy. I know sex is more exercise so I might use that with her one day.
> 
> She is go go go...crash.
> 
> This is a concern. It seems her life has gotten busier as the years have gone on. So our sex life suffers obviously. I think she is realizing though the overall damage and risk to ignoring hat aspect of our lives. It'll get better after the holidays in terms of work.
> 
> So I have a challenge... there are reasons why my situation is so severe and it isn't all just the OM.
> 
> My wife has self image issues she ended up with scars from her injury and bruising. So she does what she can to feel better about her image. She dresses really nice and I'm sure she feels better using nicer panties and shaving.
> 
> Again I go back to guys getting fit/dressing better to try to send a message to their spouse. I don't see why women are any different. She doesn't shy away when naked or anything.
> 
> I admit there is just about every single red flag possible.
> 
> I also believe with my gut there was no PA.
> 
> So yes I'm three years in and a few more weeks or months wont kill me. There will be additional opportunities to affect change. I believe most of the change has already happened and now its just finding the right time to rebuild our sex life.


White noise!!!!! Even in your posts defending her it is obvious that when you do have THIS TALK, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.

You asked about the 180 last year and have not implemented it amongst all the other things that have been brought up over and over.

I am waving the white flag...... You are absolutely right, none of this can not be explained away and your wife is certainly worth fighting for because she is the "Mother Teresa" of spouses and has shown you complete transparency and done all she can to ensure your happiness (not including expensive sunglasses).....


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> So are all of you going to trash my plan when it actually works?
> 
> I hope not because that would be lame.
> 
> It'll work. We'll have a new better sexual marriage.
> 
> I'll gladly give 3 years for the rest of my life satisfied.
> Sometimes marriages have a lull.


Will you keep saying that as the years go by? 5... 10... 20? Will you still call cheating a "lull"?? 

I will agree that marriages have lulls. But you can't improve your marriage unless you actually address the cheating.... that means stop rug sweeping the bullsh!t!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Ovid

Maricha75 said:


> Will you keep saying that as the years go by? 5... 10... 20? Will you still call cheating a "lull"??
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He'll do it until he just can't deny anymore. Then he will hate all women...


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> That she was cheating. But you don't live with her and see the change. We had sex 9 times in those three years.


You haven't had sex since July 2011, and you claimed ED problems in any case so that doesn't bode well. That means you had sex 9X's and I doubt that since the ILYBNILWY......

You've also claimed you are a great catch..... If I was such a great catch with women falling over each other for a piece of me stuck in a disastrous non-sexual marriage, I'd test the market instead of trying to fix a broken marriage.

You still haven't answered my questions about your wife & sex.... Does she masturbate? If yes she's chosen masturbation over you. Does she like sex? If so she either doesn't want it with you or is getting it elsewhere. If she says she's indifferent, then you have to understand you will not get the sex life you yearn for and have written about and expect when she "snaps out of it".

18 MONTHS OF NO SEX AND NO AFFECTION STILL AT HOME!!!!


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think what you all don't realize is I'm simply playing the odds.
> 
> 
> 
> T2, your playing russian roulette with an .45 automatic pistol, not a revolver with a 1 in 6 chance, but a damn automatic, 1 pull and done....
> 
> Get the OM out of the picture, no ifs,ands or butts, 100% gone from your lives....
> 
> I know you say your wife is super busy, but cant you see it? she makes time for everthing else but you, when the effe are you going to be number 1 for a while???


----------



## Ovid

OP is so delusional I wonder if there really is a her. 

I can't help but think he's on a hospital computer somewhere dressed as Napoleon.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

justbidingtime said:


> You haven't had sex since July 2011, and you claimed ED problems in any case so that doesn't bode well. That means you had sex 9X's and I doubt that since the ILYBNILWY......
> 
> You've also claimed you are a great catch..... If I was such a great catch with women falling over each other for a piece of me stuck in a disastrous non-sexual marriage, I'd test the market instead of trying to fix a broken marriage.
> 
> You still haven't answered my questions about your wife & sex.... Does she masturbate? If yes she's chosen masturbation over you. Does she like sex? If so she either doesn't want it with you or is getting it elsewhere. If she says she's indifferent, then you have to understand you will not get the sex life you yearn for and have written about and expect when she "snaps out of it".
> 
> 18 MONTHS OF NO SEX AND NO AFFECTION STILL AT HOME!!!!


I did answer... I'll ask her about her masturbation in January along with various other sex topics. Her and I need to come to an understanding.

In terms of sex 9 times that counts all forms of penetration. True ED did not make it traditional. So if you define sex as coitus then I guess you are correct in the less than statement.

i feel better now about everything so I doubt ED will be a concern. It was mainly the stress of knowing she wasn't into it and the sporadic nature of actual intimacy.

that is what I'm attempting to correct.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Will you keep saying that as the years go by? 5... 10... 20? Will you still call cheating a "lull"??
> 
> I will agree that marriages have lulls. But you can't improve your marriage unless you actually address the cheating.... that means stop rug sweeping the bullsh!t!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


4 years total is my limit.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Ovid said:


> OP is so delusional I wonder if there really is a her.
> 
> I can't help but think he's on a hospital computer somewhere dressed as Napoleon.


is her name?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

strugglinghusband said:


> Trying2figureitout said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think what you all don't realize is I'm simply playing the odds.
> 
> 
> 
> T2, your playing russian roulette with an .45 automatic pistol, not a revolver with a 1 in 6 chance, but a damn automatic, 1 pull and done....
> 
> Get the OM out of the picture, no ifs,ands or butts, 100% gone from your lives....
> 
> I know you say your wife is super busy, but cant you see it? she makes time for everthing else but you, when the effe are you going to be number 1 for a while???
> 
> 
> 
> I agree... the problem is my wife has built a busy life. Perhaps as a way to cope with our issue.
> 
> It is my intent to continue discussions to get us both in a balance of other activities to allow us to have the needed intimacy/sex in our marriage.
> 
> Its a process. I believe we are getting closer everyday to the result I desire.
Click to expand...


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> strugglinghusband said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree... the problem is my wife has built a busy life. Perhaps as a way to cope with our issue.
> Well make her be un-busy, limit the other stuff
> 
> It is my intent to continue discussions to get us both in a balance of other activities to allow us to have the needed intimacy/sex in our marriage.
> Discussions are just words my friend, words...she needs to be accountable with ACTIONS! as you do....
> 
> Its a process. I believe we are getting closer everyday to the result I desire.
> 
> 
> 
> Process yes, but they begin with words and it ends with actions or inaction....
Click to expand...


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> strugglinghusband said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree... the *problem is my wife has built a busy life. Perhaps as a way to cope with our issue. *
> 
> It is my intent to continue discussions to get us both in a balance of other activities to allow us to have the needed intimacy/sex in our marriage.
> 
> Its a process. I believe we are getting closer everyday to the result I desire.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this a cause or is this an effect?
Click to expand...


----------



## Ovid




----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't believe it was a PA... possible EA but not sure although it fits the criteria.


 Now that you know that she did not cut off all contact with the other man as you had hoped, you are saying that it might not have been a emotional affair (EA) after all. You are saying this because you know that if you acknowledge what you know is true, that it was an EA, you would also have to acknowledge that as long as she has any contact with her affair partner, you have no chance of getting your marriage back. You said in another post that you are "playing the odds". Well if the odds are that it was an EA, then the odds of you getting your marraige back are very poor if you continue to allow any contact with the other man.

Although I think that it was both an EA and a physical affair (PA), being optimistic I am not pushing the PA aspect and am focusing on the EA. If you truly are playing the odds and want the best chance of getting your marriage back, you need to take a stand now on no contact. Your best odds of saving your marraige is to be willing to end it and mean it if she will not agree to no contact. Your odds do not get better with time, as the bond between the other man and your wife will only get stronger. If she pick divorce over ending contact with the other man, then your marraige was going to be over anyway, but at least now you would know. 

Now is the time to take a stand and demand respect. Now is the time to require that your wife honor your vows and put you before all others.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> That she was cheating. But you don't live with her and see the change. *We had sex 9 times in those three years.*


Yea? And? My husband and I had sex weekly... only dropped to once a month TWICE... and I was STILL in a full blown EA. 

Again, I will beat my head against a wall and reiterate: you will never know because you are too *SCARED* to verify. You can NOT improve a marriage while things are still unknown. And, by NOT verifying (and we KNOW she knows you WON'T) you are just making it easier for her to do it again... this time, hiding it better. Unfortunately, I speak from experience. But hey, you're too damn stubborn to admit we're right about this. Too damn scared she's gonna leave once you know the truth. As you said before...your life, your choice. 

I can't remember..do you have kids?


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> 4 years total is my limit.


 Even if she agrees to going no contact today with her emotional affair (EA) partner, it will take all of the 1 year that you have left for her to get the affair partner out of her system enough for you to have a chance at getting her back.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Now that you know that she did not cut off all contact with the other man as you had hoped, you are saying that it might not have been a emotional affair (EA) after all. You are saying this because you know that if you acknowledge what you know is true, that it was an EA, you would also have to acknowledge that as long as she has any contact with her affair partner, you have no chance of getting your marriage back. You said in another post that you are "playing the odds". Well if the odds are that it was an EA, then the odds of you getting your marraige back are very poor if you continue to allow any contact with the other man.
> 
> Although I think that it was both an EA and a physical affair (PA), being optimistic I am not pushing the PA aspect and am focusing on the EA. If you truly are playing the odds and want the best chance of getting your marriage back, you need to take a stand now on no contact. Your best odds of saving your marraige is to be willing to end it and mean it if she will not agree to no contact. Your odds do not get better with time, as the bond between the other man and your wife will only get stronger. If she pick divorce over ending contact with the other man, then your marraige was going to be over anyway, but at least now you would know.
> 
> Now is the time to take a stand and demand respect. Now is the time to require that your wife honor your vows and put you before all others.


Try,

You are correct. I do need to continue to take a stand and demand respect. Our vows do need to be met.

I agree.

Now my process is focused communication... so in January I will re-evaluate where we are with sex, texting and general overall relationship. if it is still not where I need it her and I will discuss until we both agree on a solution.

It gets easier to discuss every time, because her and I are now heading in the same direction. I need to give her time and space to process it all on her own.

I truly believe focused communication with time in between is the way to go. Rather than just hounding her to change.

I do deserve a certain level of respect and intimacy. I
I've been doing better on the respect angle and still have work to do on intimacy.

I would not count my wife out in changing as I've seen her change before my eyes. Its taken a long time but if it works then I'll be good for the rest of our life. I'm looking for permanent change and willing to wait for a solid fix.

I myself need to get some more attempts under my belt to see how she now responds to those.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> Even if she agrees to going no contact today with her emotional affair (EA) partner, it will take all of the 1 year that you have left for her to get the affair partner out of her system enough for you to have a chance at getting her back.


Boy you are full of great news


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Yea? And? My husband and I had sex weekly... only dropped to once a month TWICE... and I was STILL in a full blown EA.
> 
> Again, I will beat my head against a wall and reiterate: you will never know because you are too *SCARED* to verify. You can NOT improve a marriage while things are still unknown. And, by NOT verifying (and we KNOW she knows you WON'T) you are just making it easier for her to do it again... this time, hiding it better. Unfortunately, I speak from experience. But hey, you're too damn stubborn to admit we're right about this. Too damn scared she's gonna leave once you know the truth. As you said before...your life, your choice.
> 
> I can't remember..do you have kids?


2 teen boys


----------



## DavidWYoung

This guy make me fell soo much better about the way I handled my exwife. Thanks


----------



## warlock07

your belief has nothing to do with her affair being a PA or not..

Quiz time: how many spouses here on TAM are shocked to find out that their spouse had an affair on them ?

hint: all of them


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I truly believe focused communication with time in between is the way to go. Rather than just hounding her to change.


 You missed the point. Time is on the side of the other man. Time is against you. You do not have more time. Also, I am not asking you to hound her to change. Hounding does not work. You have no control over her actions only your own. Tell her no contact with the other man starts today. If she is not on board with this then you are going to file for divorce as you will no longer tolerate the other man in being in your marraige. Apologize to her for not taking such a stand sooner and dragging this out. Tell her that the only answer is yes, and that no answer by her will be treated as not a yes. Tell her that there is no more time to think or talk about it. Tell her that you have given her enough time, in fact too much time. If she does not agree to no contact, file for divorce and mean it. Do not discuss the topic of no contact unless she brings it up, and then only tell her that there is nothing more to discuss. It is either the other man or you. She cannot have both in her life. After 3 years, expect her to call your bluff. Move quickly to schedule an appointment with an attorney. Once you start the process be focused in your heart on going thought with it. Only when she believes that it is true that you do mean business will she for the first time be forced to choose between you and the other man. Right now she is cake eating and has both and will not give this up until she has no choice.

Although I fear the it may be too late as the other man may have already won her, your best odds are still to act now and be strong. As much as she will say bad things to you about this, every time that you do not back down, you will be earning more of her respect. You will need this respect if you are to have a chance.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> You missed the point. Time is on the side of the other man. Time is against you. You do not have more time. Also, I am not asking you to hound her to change. Hounding does not work. You have no control over her actions only your own. Tell her no contact with the other man starts today. If she is not on board with this then you are going to file for divorce as you will no longer tolerate the other man in being in your marraige. Apologize to her for not taking such a stand sooner and dragging this out. Tell her that the only answer is yes, and that no answer by her will be treated as not a yes. Tell her that there is no more time to think or talk about it. Tell her that you have given her enough time, in fact too much time. If she does not agree to no contact, file for divorce and mean it. Do not discuss the topic of no contact unless she brings it up, and then only tell her that there is nothing more to discuss. It is either the other man or you. She cannot have both in her life. After 3 years, expect her to call your bluff. Move quickly to schedule an appointment with an attorney. Once you start the process be focused in your heart on going thought with it. Only when she believes that it is true that you do mean business will she for the first time be forced to choose between you and the other man. Right now she is cake eating and has both and will not give this up until she has no choice.
> 
> Although I fear the it may be too late as the other man may have already won her, your best odds are still to act now and be strong. As much as she will say bad things to you about this, every time that you do not back down, you will be earning more of her respect. You will need this respect if you are to have a chance.


The way I see it Try is that I won't have to take it that far.

I already put that A or B choice on the table... she chose C.

I understand that was weak but it allowed me to maintain the high ground. However in essence she chose A and to continue to work on reconnecting... the fact she still wants him in the picture makes my case for our return to intimacy stronger because she knows the risks of exposure and and end to our marriage. At the very least I believe their communications will change and tone down into a platonic friendship. If I need more details I ask her for now I'll watch the less texting closely.

I know its not mainstream thinking especially in this forum.

I feel we will return to intimacy soon and she will maintain him as a friend. It really is not all about him, it is more her life choices and energy level at night than anything. That friendship of hers was a launching point for deep discussion...the fruits of that will come.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

It really boils down to two choices....

Continue the plan for another year... then divorce

OR

Divorce NOW.

If I choose the first option I could conceivably fix my marriage.

If I choose the last option... I won't.

Game is not over its the fouth quarter.
Look at it this way you'll only have my story for another year success or not.

Either way it'll be valuable information about what can work and what doesn't.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> The way I see it Try is that I won't have to take it that far.
> 
> I already put that A or B choice on the table... she chose C.
> 
> I understand that was weak but it allowed me to maintain the high ground. However in essence she chose A and to continue to work on reconnecting... *the fact she still wants him in the picture makes my case for our return to intimacy stronger *because she knows the risks of exposure and and end to our marriage. At the very least I believe their communications will change and tone down into a platonic friendship. If I need more details I ask her for now I'll watch the less texting closely.
> 
> I know its not mainstream thinking especially in this forum.
> 
> I feel we will return to intimacy soon and she will maintain him as a friend. *It really is not all about him*, it is more her life choices and energy level at night than anything. That friendship of hers was a launching point for deep discussion...the fruits of that will come.


What does that first statement in bold actually mean?

Second bold phrase... sigh... I give up, you win...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What does that first statement in bold actually mean?
> 
> Second bold phrase... sigh... I give up, you win...


She knows how much I believe it to be an EA. By her taking a stand on him its incumbent on her to prove me wrong. One way to do that is to show me we can return to a sex life and that he has no effect on that.

Its psychology.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Trying2figureitout said:


> It really boils down to two choices....
> 
> Continue the plan for another year... then divorce
> 
> OR
> 
> Divorce NOW.
> 
> If I choose the first option I could conceivably fix my marriage.
> 
> If I choose the last option... I won't.
> 
> Game is not over its the fouth quarter.
> Look at it this way you'll only have my story for another year success or not.
> 
> Either way it'll be valuable information about what can work and what doesn't.


Before you were saying you wouldn't let it go another year. Now you have this supposed choice. A year from now you could say the exact same thing. And again a year after that. You have shown over and over again that there is exactly zero conviction behind your words. You will never leave her. Eventually, she will leave you, but you will never be the one to leave.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

WorkingOnMe said:


> Before you were saying you wouldn't let it go another year. Now you have this supposed choice. A year from now you could say the exact same thing. And again a year after that. You have shown over and over again that there is exactly zero conviction behind your words. You will never leave her. Eventually, she will leave you, but you will never be the one to leave.


Are you sure about that?

I can't do more than four years of this.

Most sexless marriages take 3-4 years to resolve if they do.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Before you were quite adamant that it wouldn't go into the 4th year, that 3 was all you could do. Now, when she calls your bluff it changes to 4 is all you can do. Which of course is another bluff.

I really really hope that something changes in your relationship. I don't think it will, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it does. I'll also be quite convinced that if it changes it will be in spite of "the plan" and not because of it.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> She knows how much I believe it to be an EA. By her taking a stand on him its incumbent on her to prove me wrong. One way to do that is to show me we can return to a sex life and that he has no effect on that.
> 
> Its psychology.


You really believe that? Truly?
:rofl::rofl:

Oh, I'm sorry... you were serious! 

No, returning to having sex, in ANY capacity, is not going to prove anything about the OM. 

But, I see, we are wasting our collective breath on this. You're gonna do whatever you want, no matter how ridiculous it is.

Good luck. And I mean that sincerely. You will need it. I promise not to say "I told you so" when you learn she has taken it deep underground... ok, maybe that's pushing it a bit... I can't promise there won't be "I told you so"... Because I know how easy it is to placate a spouse with sex while still carrying on an EA... my husband actually checked up on me, so it was more difficult. You however.... LOL Dude... you're making it TOOOOOO EASY! I can't believe how easy it is for her... just... damn. Wow... 

ETA: You do realize that returning to some sort of sex life could very easily be an agreement between OM and your wife, to throw you off, right? One of the OLDEST tricks in the cheater's book. Even if not having sex with the OM (which I sincerely doubt), they can still have that agreement.


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

warlock07 said:


> your belief has nothing to do with her affair being a PA or not..
> 
> Quiz time: how many spouses here on TAM are shocked to find out that their spouse had an affair on them ?
> 
> hint: all of them


Wrong, warlock.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Either way it'll be valuable information about what can work and what doesn't.


Nah... we already got the valuable information about what works and what doesn't.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> I can't do more than four years of this.


I think I need to put this particular quote into another thread... just to be sure it's "saved" in case you delete this thread as you did your early ones. That way, when you come back and say "There won't be a year 5!"... I can point you to THIS quote above!



Trying2figureitout said:


> Most sexless marriages take 3-4 years to resolve if they do.


Again.... it's not about the SEX, T2, it's about INFIDELITY. You don't just have a sexless marriage...you have a CHEATING WIFE. And you're too damn stubborn to make her VERIFY everything to you. You have infidelity. If it was JUST sex, I could concede. But it's NOT, and you damn well know it. Infidelity is a WHOLE different ballgame.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> She knows how much I believe it to be an EA. By her taking a stand on him its incumbent on her to prove me wrong. One way to do that is to show me we can return to a sex life and that he has no effect on that.
> 
> Its psychology.


I disagree and you are not seeing what's going on clearly. 

Question: Is your wife still shaving and wearing the sexy undies? Is she still going to the gym and is she working out with a male partner? Or is she still going places to meet other people that you have not accounted for? The shaving part is interesting, because as I understand it, it's generally not something women do to make themselves more comfortable. Plus wearing sexy undies is not something that is typically comfortable either.


----------



## Maricha75

bobka said:


> Wrong, warlock.


VERY few exceptions. I don't know of any that I have read who actually DID expect their spouses to cheat...:scratchhead:


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> Try,
> 
> You are correct. I do need to continue to take a stand and demand respect. Our vows do need to be met.
> Demanding your respect is by NO CONTACT with OM..
> Him or me baby, him or me? and effen mean it!!!
> 
> I agree.
> 
> Now my process is focused communication... so in January I will re-evaluate where we are with sex, texting and general overall relationship. if it is still not where I need it her and I will discuss until we both agree on a solution.
> 
> It gets easier to discuss every time, because her and I are now heading in the same direction. I need to give her time and space to process it all on her own.
> 
> 
> I truly believe focused communication with time in between is the way to go. Rather than just hounding her to change.
> 
> I do deserve a certain level of respect and intimacy.
> Yes you do
> 
> I
> I've been doing better on the respect angle and still have work to do on intimacy.
> 
> I would not count my wife out in changing as I've seen her change before my eyes. Its taken a long time but if it works then I'll be good for the rest of our life. I'm looking for permanent change and willing to wait for a solid fix
> thats seems to be all you are doing is waiting
> 
> I myself need to get some more attempts under my belt to see how she now responds to those.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> The way I see it Try is that I won't have to take it that far.
> 
> I already put that A or B choice on the table... she chose C.
> Ding ding, that was your 1st clue, he is more important than you, she choose C = OM
> I understand that was weak but it allowed me to maintain the high ground.
> Truly it is
> However in essence she chose A and to continue to work on reconnecting... the fact she still wants him in the picture makes my case for our return to intimacy stronger because she knows the risks of exposure and and end to our marriage.
> :banghead::banghead: she choose him, she wants him in the picture because she has no respect for you, how the hell could she, you let this go on...she dosent care about exposure, you all ready know
> 
> At the very least I believe their communications will change and tone down into a platonic friendship. If I need more details I ask her for now I'll watch the less texting closely.
> She direspected you, herself,your marriage with OM and
> you think its ok to be platonic friends..please tell me your kidding please..
> 
> I know its not mainstream thinking especially in this forum.
> No ****, becuase your chance of success is about as close as me flying to the moon tonight, it might happen...I'll bring back some cheese for you to have with your whine..
> T2, we've been there, read the damn stories on here, you know the hard, firm stance is the best option, you have to be prepared to throw the the marriage out the window to save it...you are not there and your wife knows it
> 
> I feel we will return to intimacy soon and she will maintain him as a friend. It really is not all about him, it is more her life choices and energy level at night than anything. That friendship of hers was a launching point for deep discussion...the fruits of that will come.


Yep its all about him, you just fail to see it...Tell her to give him up 100% to prove to you that you are far more important to her than he is, Tell her that, demand it!!


----------



## Trying2figureitout

strugglinghusband said:


> Yep its all about him, you just fail to see it...Tell her to give him up 100% to prove to you that you are far more important to her than he is, Tell her that, demand it!!



I may just do that next time we talk in January... I'll have to re-assess our situation. For now though I plan to go through the end of the year and just see what happens. Really I feel her and I are on track. The EA is controlled so far.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I may just do that next time we talk in January... I'll have to re-assess our situation. For now though I plan to go through the end of the year and just see what happens.


Why not now? why wait? you cant tell me it wouldnt make you feel better if she did, why are you so afraid to do this?
Do you feel you know what her answer will be? , yes the E/A is controlled alright, by her and OM, you just answered my last question....


----------



## Ovid

I do not believe the M can be saved at this point. He has given her so long to detach that if he ever did cut her off she would simply move on. Her only loss being whatever security he provided.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

strugglinghusband said:


> Why not now? why wait? you cant tell me it wouldnt make you feel better if she did, why are you so afraid to do this?
> Do you feel you know what her answer will be?


I'm not afraid to do that in fact I already did. Of course it didn't stick she wants him as a friend which I allowed in the end. I would prefer he be out but will accept him in her life as a friend only.

Reason I don't want to do now is I want to see how she reacts.

That way in January I have a new several month time period to re-asses what her and I accomplished.

I always connect thing back to the previous conversation as to maintain continuity of our process back to intimacy and sex.

Her position gets weaker and mine stronger at every turn.

So again the plan works or it doesn't..jury still out.


----------



## vi_bride04

I have a feeling he just wants to get through the holidays with as little drama as possible.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> I have a feeling he just wants to get through the holidays with as little drama as possible.


Not really... its been my plan all along to do focused communication and not constant communication.

I picked a window two months after the most recent heavy communication...

Holidays really have nothing to do with it... more the beginning of a new year than anything...

Needs to be time in between to allow our marriage to heal and affect actual change.


----------



## Ovid

vi_bride04 said:


> I have a feeling he just wants to get through the holidays with as little drama as possible.


I think he would rather live a beautiful lie than an ugly reality. 

The only problem is he wants the rest of us to go along with his fantasy, and we just don't roll like that.


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm not afraid to do that in fact I already did. Of course it didn't stick she wants him as a friend which I allowed in the end. I would prefer he be out but will accept him in her life as a friend only.
> you did and then she managed you into it, that you allowed, she had no conseqeuences to get rid of him
> 
> Reason I don't want to do now is I want to see how she reacts.
> 
> That way in January I have a new several month time period to re-asses what her and I accomplished.
> all the more time for thier ties to grow stronger and make plansI always connect thing back to the previous conversation as to maintain continuity of our process back to intimacy and sex.
> 
> Her position gets weaker and mine stronger at every turn.
> Flip this around and then you got it
> 
> So again the plan works or it doesn't..jury still out.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Ovid said:


> I think he would rather live a beautiful lie than an ugly reality.
> 
> The only problem is he wants the rest of us to go along with his fantasy, and we just don't roll like that.


Ovid,

I could care less about any of that. I came here to give a significant update and am answering questions as they are asked. I do listen to all advice.

My method is different doesn't make it wrong.

I do not believe I'm living in a fantasy world. This is actual work trying to affect the needed changes in my marriage.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
There is constant, intense and utterly conflicted communication between you. It is like a puzzle with two black and white interlocked pieces. 

Your actions and words are utterly and completely in conflict. You say: I have boundaries and could live without you
You do: Please stay, please spend time with me at 5 AM since that is the only time you, please accept my gifts - take this Ipad 3

She says: I want to be married, I love you
She does: Leave me alone, I have jammed my schedule to avoid you, can't you take the hint. I would rather drink bleach than have sex with you. 





Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm not afraid to do that in fact I already did. Of course it didn't stick she wants him as a friend which I allowed in the end.
> 
> Reason I don't want to do now is I want to see how she reacts.
> 
> That way in January I have a new several month time period to re-asses what her and I accomplished.
> 
> I always connect thing back to the previous conversation as to maintain continuity of our process back to intimacy and sex.
> 
> Her position gets weaker and mine stronger at every turn.
> 
> So again the plan works or it doesn't..jury still out.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> There is constant, intense and utterly conflicted communication between you. It is like a puzzle with two black and white interlocked pieces.
> 
> Your actions and words are utterly and completely in conflict. You say: I have boundaries and could live without you
> You do: Please stay, please spend time with me at 5 AM since that is the only time you, please accept my gifts - take this Ipad 3
> 
> She says: I want to be married, I love you
> She does: Leave me alone, I have jammed my schedule to avoid you, can't you take the hint. I would rather drink bleach than have sex with you.


Mem..
You really think that is the way my wife thinks?

I believe we are both hard headed and don't want to been seen as the loser in all of this. The problem is we let it go too long that we are both losers in this.

So now its a matter of saving face... she needs to make the necessary changes to have regular sex again without it looking like I forced her into it.

Its sort of a grudge thing. She wants me to be less stressed and suggests I find a way to relieve it as in friends or hobbies etc. So I take that advice as far as I can.

I do believe she understands fully our marriage needs sex its more of a timing thing than anything but time is running out and I do believe she senses that urgency.

Wouldn't be surprised at all if we start our new sexlife soon as literally that is easier than having another discussion about lack of sex in January.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> I understand that was weak but it allowed me to maintain the high ground. However in essence she chose A and to continue to work on reconnecting.


 No she did not in essence chose to reconnect with you. She did the exact opposite. Plan A was that she needed to commit to dropping the other man out of her life in order for you to have a real chance at reconnecting with each other. By choosing not to drop the other man from her life, she has in essence chosen not to do what is needed to reconnect.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> It really boils down to two choices....
> 
> Continue the plan for another year... then divorce
> 
> OR
> 
> Divorce NOW.
> 
> If I choose the first option I could conceivably fix my marriage.
> 
> If I choose the last option... I won't.


 You have it backwards. Being willing to divorce now increases the odds that you could conceivably fix your marriage. A year from now lowers the odds that you could conceivably fix your marriage.


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
This is so, so much more toxic than you describe. 

She cheated on you. ALL her friends know about her gym buddy. And SHE is the one who gets to save face by making you jump through more hoops for sex? YOU are the cuckold. 

Do you not think she showed the Ipad 3 off to all her friends? 

Don't you get it. That is yet another trophy kill for her. When she showed it off and smiled, her little social circle saw it for what as another submissive gift/act of tribute from her conquered husband who is begging for peace and forgiveness.

She has set herself up as her colleagues roll model. 
1. Marry the provider
2. Jam your schedule with fun stuff so he and the kids take on more of the housework
3. Find a hot young lover
4. Kick the provider out of your bed/sex life and bully him about everything he does that you disapprove of
5. Get your H to do more and more in the hopes of peace/marital relations
6. Keep inventing reasons why he is to blame for the war in the bedroom
7. Boast to your friends about how you have achieved total dominance in the house 





Trying2figureitout said:


> Mem..
> You really think that is the way my wife thinks?
> 
> I believe we are both hard headed and don't want to been seen as the loser in all of this. The problem is we let it go too long that we are both losers in this.
> 
> So now its a matter of saving face... she needs to make the necessary changes to have regular sex again without it looking like I forced her into it.
> 
> Its sort of a grudge thing. She wants me to be less stressed and suggests I find a way to relieve it as in friends or hobbies etc. So I take that advice as far as I can.
> 
> I do believe she understands fully our marriage needs sex its more of a timing thing than anything but time is running out and I do believe she senses that urgency.
> 
> Wouldn't be surprised at all if we start our new sexlife soon as literally that is easier than having another discussion about lack of sex in January.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I may just do that next time we talk in January... I'll have to re-assess our situation. For now though I plan to go through the end of the year and just see what happens. Really I feel her and I are on track. The EA is controlled so far.


OMFG! You can NOT control a FVCKING EA!! Damn it man! I tried to allow my husband to be able to talk to the OW AT FIRST... that lasted about 3 days. But then, *I* saw the F*ING TEXTS! I finally gave him the choice... after a few DAYS...either her, or me. He didn't say "well, I will just text less" when I gave him the ultimatum. He did that line in the beginning... and I saw the content of those "fewer texts" FVCK THAT! He chose ME because I DEMANDED a decision. I didn't say "oh, well, ok, well... I'll wait til after this holiday..." Nope, it was JUST before Easter, I believe. FFS! Man, grow a spine! Stop taking the cowardly road and be a MAN!


----------



## keko

MEM11363 said:


> T2,
> This is so, so much more toxic than you describe.
> 
> She cheated on you. ALL her friends know about her gym buddy. And SHE is the one who gets to save face by making you jump through more hoops for sex? YOU are the cuckold.
> 
> Do you not think she showed the Ipad 3 off to all her friends?
> 
> Don't you get it. That is yet another trophy kill for her. When she showed it off and smiled, her little social circle saw it for what as another submissive gift/act of tribute from her conquered husband who is begging for peace and forgiveness.
> 
> She has set herself up as her colleagues roll model.
> 1. Marry the provider
> 2. Jam your schedule with fun stuff so he and the kids take on more of the housework
> 3. Find a hot young lover
> 4. Kick the provider out of your bed/sex life and bully him about everything he does that you disapprove of
> 5. Get your H to do more and more in the hopes of peace/marital relations
> 6. Keep inventing reasons why he is to blame for the war in the bedroom
> 7. Boast to your friends about how you have achieved total dominance in the house


All valid points but some BH prefr to stick their head into the sand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Trying2figureitout

OK I ask you all this... how come I'm so damn happy?

If it was as dire as you all make it seem I don't think I'd be happy especially after 11 months of zero sex.

In reality I don't need TAM but I'm willing to share as I know there are many who find my saga interesting. I do have a lot of steps that work .

Anyhow we'll see who is right in the end. I'm betting on me in my particular case.


----------



## warlock07

Trying2figureitout said:


> Are you sure about that?
> 
> I can't do more than four years of this.
> 
> Most sexless marriages take 3-4 years to resolve if they do.


source?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

warlock07 said:


> source?


Just overall research on successes I've had plenty of time to become an expert on sexless marriages.

I've read just about all there is on the subject.

Most fail or go on sexless forever

Rare ones resolve after 3 to 4 years and actually recover. Some amazingly so.

Some very rare ones recover at year 15 or 20 after they went sexless.

I plan to be one of the rare ones and rather than count on luck come up with a plan.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> Just overall research on successes I've had plenty of time to become an expert on sexless marriages.
> 
> I've read just about all there is on the subject.
> 
> Most fail or go on sexless forever
> 
> Rare ones resolve after 3 to 4 years and actually recover. Some amazingly so.
> 
> Some very rare ones recover at year 15 or 20 after they went sexless.
> 
> I plan to be one of the rare ones and rather than count on luck come up with a plan.


What do they mention about if an affair is causing the sexless marriage?


----------



## keko

Trying2figureitout said:


> OK I ask you all this... how come I'm so damn happy?
> 
> If it was as dire as you all make it seem I don't think I'd be happy especially after 11 months of zero sex.
> 
> In reality I don't need TAM but I'm willing to share as I know there are many who find my saga interesting. I do have a lot of steps that work .
> 
> Anyhow we'll see who is right in the end. I'm betting on me in my particular case.


Ever watch porn where the husband films his wife getting banged by multiple guys and he somehow enjoys it and jerks off?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Just overall research on successes I've had plenty of time to become an expert on sexless marriages.
> 
> I've read just about all there is on the subject.
> 
> Most fail or go on sexless forever
> 
> Rare ones resolve after 3 to 4 years and actually recover. Some amazingly so.
> 
> Some very rare ones recover at year 15 or 20 after they went sexless.
> 
> I plan to be one of the rare ones and rather than count on luck come up with a plan.


And... in that research, how many of them had infidelity in the mix? Warlock asked for source. Could you not provide even ONE source for us to look at? SOMETHING tangible that we can look at and say "hey, maybe he DOES have a chance?" Anything? Anything at all? 


You talk a good game, T2, I'll give you that... but when backed into a corner, you cave. Each. And. Every. TIME!... EXCEPT when talking here. You keep insisting that you have the key. But every damn time you have tried to put that key in the lock, you get blocked. EVERY time. Now, tangible sources?


----------



## Maricha75

keko said:


> Ever watch porn where the husband films his wife getting banged by multiple guys and he somehow enjoys it and jerks off?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


YES! YES! YES! (No, I wasn't getting off. )
This, right here... some cuckolds ENJOY being cuckolded.... I am thinking, now, that you are FIGHTING that feeling. You LIKE it...but don't want people to KNOW you do.


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> OK I ask you all this... how come I'm so damn happy?
> 
> If it was as dire as you all make it seem I don't think I'd be happy especially after 11 months of zero sex.


 You yourself gave the answer in an early post when you referenced yourself to the movie "Dumb and Dumber". In the move when he was told by a girl that she would not sleep with him even if he was the last man on earth, he asked her if he was the last man on earth would there not be even a one in a million chance that she would sleep with him. When she said yes if he were the last man earth there would be a one in a million chance, he joyfully shouted yes I knew that I had a chance. 

Anyone can be happy if their self esteem is such that they set their standards low enough. Your wife has so emotionally abused you and taken advantage of your deep seated decency so much, that you no longer have a health level of self esteem. When they say that "nice guys finish last" they are thinking of you (sexual double meaning to the word "finish" is intended).


----------



## Trying2figureitout

TRy said:


> You yourself gave the answer in an early post when you referenced yourself to the movie "Dumb and Dumber". In the move when he was told by a girl that she would not sleep with him even if he was the last man on earth, he asked her if he was the last man on earth would there not be even a one in a million chance that she would sleep with him. When she said yes if he were the last man earth there would be a one in a million chance, he joyfully shouted yes I knew that I had a chance.
> 
> Anyone can be happy if their self esteem is such that they set their standards low enough. Your wife has so emotionally abused you and taken advantage of your deep seated decency so much, that you no longer have a health level of self esteem. When they say that "nice guys finish last" they are thinking of you (sexual double meaning to the word "finish" is intended).


Actually I fell like I have a lot of self esteem.... I have managed to compartmentalize the issue as hers.

Now the odds of my having success are roughly 10000 to 1 without a plan.

BUT I have a plan.

That drastically improves my odds to an almost certainty that I'll turn my marriage around in under four years.

The plan works.

Most sexless marriages don't recover because the spouse quits trying.


----------



## Chaparral

I don't understand why you haven't asked her to read the texts. I understand why she wouldn't want you to read them. Are you monitoring her call record. Cutting down on the texting usually means they have just found another form of communication. I.e. work email, burner phone, talking instead of texting. They have both lied to you in the past. Lying becomes an art form from cheaters. You say she didn't realize what the EA was and what affect it was having on her marriage. Do you realize how that ounds truly impossible. The ILYBNILY speech was because she realized how much better her friend was than you. It was easy to cut you off for her. Tired,headache, bloated, stomach ache, back hurts etc. ad infiniteum, but plenty of energy for the gym, work, GNO's, side business, etc.

At least check her recent call record and who's numbers she's really calling


----------



## bangun

he is in playing with time .

it's good to help her ww from now if he loved her. Now for the good of the future.

at least he started with an active awareness. rather than wait for January.

learn from other experience much more pleasant.

“Time is what we want most,but what we use worst.”


----------



## TRy

Trying2figureitout said:


> Now the odds of my having success are roughly 10000 to 1 without a plan.
> 
> BUT I have a plan.
> 
> That drastically improves my odds to an almost certainty that I'll turn my marriage around in under four years.


 Compared to 10000 to 1 odds against it working without a plan, the bar is set so low that your plan looks pretty good to you. Measured against a good plan, the odds going with your plan looks really bad.


----------



## tamii

Trying2figureitout,

How about, instead of buying her gifts, the two of you go on a nice, long holiday (maybe a couple of weeks at least) and spend some quality time together (without the OM).

Maybe by leaving your busy lives behind, there could be some time for romance and, subsequently, intimacy.

Suggest that and see how she reacts.


----------



## vi_bride04

tamii said:


> Trying2figureitout,
> 
> How about, instead of buying her gifts, the two of you go on a nice, long holiday (maybe a couple of weeks at least) and spend some quality time together (without the OM).
> 
> Maybe by leaving your busy lives behind, there could be some time for romance and, subsequently, intimacy.
> 
> Suggest that and see how she reacts.


That's such a great idea!

T2, any place you would go? Italy? Hawaii? Paris? Greece?? 2-3 weeks, just you and the Mrs....

Would be good to spend that much time together if you can.


----------



## Ovid

Ok... after following this for some time the only pattern I can see is that OP consistently does what everyone suggests will drag out the and consistently avoids any action that could end the A.

There can only be four explanations for this:
1. OP is a troll, and is drawing this on as long as he can taking time away from people who could actually use help.
2. OP enjoys the role and the attention of victimhood. He would rather have strangers feel sorry for him than have a faithful wife.
3. OP is one of those people that enjoys being a cuckold. He wants his wife to sleep around as that is what he actually derives sexual enjoyment from. He is just using these forums to try and justify his fantasy in his own mind by framing himself as the victim.
4. He really is delusional and is in a hospital dressed as Napoleon as he types his posts.

If he wanted her A to end he would have shown interest in at least one option that could end the A, and it would not have dragged on with his knowledge for three full years. He consistently works against accepting any option suggested by posters for him that could in any way end the A, but always does what posters warn will drag the A out. I can only conclude from this that his goal is actually to extend the A not end it.


----------



## MEM2020

Sure - lets throw a large amount of money at her in hopes that he gets some pity.....




vi_bride04 said:


> That's such a great idea!
> 
> T2, any place you would go? Italy? Hawaii? Paris? Greece?? 2-3 weeks, just you and the Mrs....
> 
> Would be good to spend that much time together if you can.


----------



## Maricha75

MEM11363 said:


> Sure - lets throw a large amount of money at her in hopes that he gets some pity.....


Besides... he wouldn't make sure she left her phone at home...


----------



## Trying2figureitout

tamii said:


> Trying2figureitout,
> 
> How about, instead of buying her gifts, the two of you go on a nice, long holiday (maybe a couple of weeks at least) and spend some quality time together (without the OM).
> 
> Maybe by leaving your busy lives behind, there could be some time for romance and, subsequently, intimacy.
> 
> Suggest that and see how she reacts.


We need a holiday that's a great suggestion. We used to travel a lot together. Our work schedules also interfere with vacation time together so its been at least 4 years since we had a proper vacation together. I'll be changing jobs next year so hopefully our vacation time gets in sync again. We have tons of air miles saved up. So wouldn't cost too much. Finding the time though.

Italy was a trip we already are planning at some point. She loves Italy.

The job thing is killer on connecting. No shared vacation time and only sat and sun together.
Good for family bad for relations.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Ovid said:


> Ok... after following this for some time the only pattern I can see is that OP consistently does what everyone suggests will drag out the and consistently avoids any action that could end the A.
> 
> There can only be four explanations for this:
> 1. OP is a troll, and is drawing this on as long as he can taking time away from people who could actually use help.
> 2. OP enjoys the role and the attention of victimhood. He would rather have strangers feel sorry for him than have a faithful wife.
> 3. OP is one of those people that enjoys being a cuckold. He wants his wife to sleep around as that is what he actually derives sexual enjoyment from. He is just using these forums to try and justify his fantasy in his own mind by framing himself as the victim.
> 4. He really is delusional and is in a hospital dressed as Napoleon as he types his posts.
> 
> If he wanted her A to end he would have shown interest in at least one option that could end the A, and it would not have dragged on with his knowledge for three full years. He consistently works against accepting any option suggested by posters for him that could in any way end the A, but always does what posters warn will drag the A out. I can only conclude from this that his goal is actually to extend the A not end it.


5. OP wants to save his marriage and understands time is on his side. As for TAM OP received a lot of advice here so like others before him he share's his journey.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Actually one good sign she is texting him once and no texts back.

That I think shows he's starting to get over her shes not worth the drama and knowing I'm not down with that. So she texts me more.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> 5. OP wants to save his marriage and understands time is on his side. As for TAM OP received a lot of advice here so like others before him he share's his journey.


Gonna adjust this a bit:
5. OP wants to save his marriage and THINKS time is on his side because he refuses to see what is blatantly before his eyes.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Actually one good sign she is texting him once and no texts back.
> 
> That I think shows he's starting to get over her shes not worth the drama and knowing I'm not down with that. So she texts me more.



Not necessarily a good sign. He could be busy with family. Thanksgiving, remember? Not a good sign that she's still trying to stay in contact with her affair partner.


----------



## vi_bride04

Trying2figureitout said:


> Actually one good sign she is texting him once and no texts back.
> 
> That I think shows he's starting to get over her shes not worth the drama and knowing I'm not down with that. So she texts me more.


Do you know what it says? She could be using a different app to text through? That wouldn't show up on a phone bill


----------



## Trying2figureitout

vi_bride04 said:


> Do you know what it says? She could be using a different app to text through? That wouldn't show up on a phone bill


She could but doubt it...shes not very tech savvy. I really would doubt if she did anything tech oriented to hide things. I'm a tech guy she knows I could if I wanted track things. I already let her know that I trust her and won't as long as she doesn't intentionally hide anything. 

She is pretty out in the open with communication she knows I check the text activity once in a while (everyday er hour)

You all are assuming she is actively cheating... I feel its just a friendship that pushed non-existent boundaries that are now firmly established with other sex relations.


----------



## tamii

MEM11363 said:


> Sure - lets throw a large amount of money at her in hopes that he gets some pity.....


That was not my intention for him. I was thinking if she WAS having an affair, the thought of leaving the OM behind for a couple of weeks would probably not be to her liking, and it would show in how she reacted to the suggestion.

Not the most direct approach, but would be interesting nonetheless.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> She could but doubt it...shes not very tech savvy. I really would doubt if she did anything tech oriented to hide things. I'm a tech guy she knows I could if I wanted track things.


I wasn't tech savvy either. I learned. I hid my knowledge from my husband... until recently. Some still boggles my mind, but the basics: find an app that's good...download it...commence talking.... keep it fairly hidden.... I could still do that if I was so inclined.



Trying2figureitout said:


> *I already let her know that I trust her and won't as long as she doesn't intentionally hide anything.*


Read: I gave her permission...again... to go ahead and cheat on me and I won't check up on her. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> She could but doubt She is pretty out in the open with communication she knows I check the text activity once in a while (everyday er hour)


Ok... so you you check up on her texting activity (just not content)... What about her DATA? You know, the part that you use for the chat apps? Checking texting isn't gonna find CHAT APP ACTIVITY.



Trying2figureitout said:


> She could but doubt You all are assuming she is actively cheating... I feel its just a friendship that pushed boundaries that are now established.


You, yourself, said EA. EA = cheating. Stop trying to backtrack. We are trying to open your eyes. You tell us things she's doing and yet, you refuse to see what is blatantly in front of you. It isn't/wasn't a friendship. She was/is cheating. And, it doesn't matter what the content of the conversations now... they were/are involved, the POSOM needs to go. No way you will EVER get her to reconnect as long as that SOB is in the picture. Not gonna happen, no matter how much you "believe it was just a friendship that pushed boundaries"... Affairs push boundaries.


----------



## Maricha75

tamii said:


> That was not my intention for him. I was thinking if she WAS having an affair, the thought of leaving the OM behind for a couple of weeks would probably not be to her liking, and it would show in how she reacted to the suggestion.
> 
> Not the most direct approach, but would be interesting nonetheless.


Won't matter. He will brush any poor reaction off as her being in pain or busy or you can insert some nonsensical bs excuse.... AND, he will accept the aforementioned bs excuse because, well... it all ties in to his PLAN!


----------



## keko

Trying2figureitout said:


> You all are assuming she is actively cheating... I feel its just a friendship that pushed non-existent boundaries that are now firmly established with other sex relations.


and you're like the 6519847549th betrayed husband on this site that thinks his story is different. Sorry to break the news brah, it ain't. They ALL follow the same script.

I'm done giving this fool advice. Survival of the fittest I guess.


----------



## warlock07

I cannot believe a person can be this dense..

If she had a PA but stopped it, would you expect to find it out ?

If she is still having a PA, how do you expect to find it out ?

Maybe your wife must have tried to reach out to you before her affair but you were in denial back then too..

Don't reply..Just think about it..By now, I know what your answers are.


----------



## warlock07

Trying2figureitout said:


> Just overall research on successes I've had plenty of time to become an expert on sexless marriages.
> 
> I've read just about all there is on the subject.
> 
> Most fail or go on sexless forever
> 
> Rare ones resolve after 3 to 4 years and actually recover. Some amazingly so.
> 
> Some very rare ones recover at year 15 or 20 after they went sexless.
> 
> I plan to be one of the rare ones and rather than count on luck come up with a plan.



Link or books ?


----------



## MEM2020

Maricha,
Wouldn't that buck your spirits up? Gosh - I can think of no larger ego booster than:

My wife is texting her affair partner, but since he is ignoring her she needs an ego boost to know that someone still wants her, so she texts me. Sort of a digital sloppy seconds. Deep sigh. 

This would make a fantastic movie script as long as it doesn't end with T2 being in a bad spot. 

OMG T2,
You TRAVEL A LOT FOR WORK. OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG

So you are frequently away from home on a predictable, schedule. OMG OMG OMG.

T2 - HELLOOOOOOOO - HELLOOOOOOOOO - IS ANYONE HOME? 

How do you spell physical affair?

WOW





Maricha75 said:


> Gonna adjust this a bit:
> 5. OP wants to save his marriage and THINKS time is on his side because he refuses to see what is blatantly before his eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily a good sign. He could be busy with family. Thanksgiving, remember? Not a good sign that she's still trying to stay in contact with her affair partner.


----------



## vi_bride04

Wait, he travels frequently??

I'm sorry, T2...you will never get out of this rut until OM is out of the picture. Its definately a PA


----------



## keko

vi_bride04 said:


> Wait, he travels frequently??
> 
> I'm sorry, T2...you will never get out of this rut until OM is out of the picture. Its definately a PA


He seems to be happy with the OM in the picture though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

Trying2figureitout said:


> OK I ask you all this... how come I'm so damn happy?
> 
> If it was as dire as you all make it seem I don't think I'd be happy especially after 11 months of zero sex.
> 
> In reality I don't need TAM but I'm willing to share as I know there are many who find my saga interesting. I do have a lot of steps that work .
> 
> Anyhow we'll see who is right in the end. I'm betting on me in my particular case.



Happy, just like a puppy tied to a tree, its master barely feeds it, teases it with little tid bits of food,throws a bone to it just out of reach, shows it a steak and all the while the puppies tail
is wagging like a mofo.... he's happy as hell and loves his master becuase he's betting on he's going to get fed....but he dosent and he still is tied to the tree, afraid to break his chain....


----------



## vi_bride04

strugglinghusband said:


> Happy, just like a puppy tied to a tree, its master barely feeds it, teases it with little tid bits of food,throws a bone to it just out of reach, shows it a steak and all the while the puppies tail
> is wagging like a mofo.... he's happy as hell and loves his master becuase he's betting on he's going to get fed....but he dosent and he still is tied to the tree, afraid to break his chain....


Best analogy so far.


----------



## justbidingtime

Stop picking on T2FIO..... He has a plan.... He has noted some take 15+ years to correct their marriage and he is only in year 4..... Give him a chance.

BTW he's had weekends away with his spouse with big plans where NOTHING happened. 

While I like to disagree with Mem11363 and his equating money & spending with rewarding bad behaviour, they are a family. Families go on trips, vacation and celebrate dates. They also have 2 incomes..... 

I'm sure like she showed off her ipad, he too has shown off his sunglasses.

The point is many of us are piling on T2FIO, and he keeps smiling and happy telling us how close to a breakthrough he is. 

He came only to CWI to get new readers (those who do not stray from the section) to share in his madness. The EA is nothing to worry about and yes it may have added to the list of excuses he allows his wife to make, it was no big deal, remember she's social.

Now he has a date set for January to talk...... Not today, not week or nightly, but in January.... That gives us 7 weeks to talk about it.


----------



## Maricha75

justbidingtime said:


> Stop picking on T2FIO..... He has a plan.... He has noted some take 15+ years to correct their marriage and he is only in year 4..... Give him a chance.
> 
> BTW he's had weekends away with his spouse with big plans where NOTHING happened.
> 
> While I like to disagree with Mem11363 and his equating money & spending with rewarding bad behaviour, they are a family. Families go on trips, vacation and celebrate dates. They also have 2 incomes.....
> 
> I'm sure like she showed off her ipad, he too has shown off his sunglasses.
> 
> The point is many of us are piling on T2FIO, and he keeps smiling and happy telling us how close to a breakthrough he is.
> 
> He came only to CWI to get new readers (those who do not stray from the section) to share in his madness. The EA is nothing to worry about and yes it may have added to the list of excuses he allows his wife to make, it was no big deal, remember she's social.
> 
> Now he has a date set for January to talk...... Not today, not week or nightly, but in January.... That gives us 7 weeks to talk about it.


SWEET! TAM minisodes!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

justbidingtime said:


> Stop picking on T2FIO..... He has a plan.... He has noted some take 15+ years to correct their marriage and he is only in year 4..... Give him a chance.
> 
> BTW he's had weekends away with his spouse with big plans where NOTHING happened.
> 
> While I like to disagree with Mem11363 and his equating money & spending with rewarding bad behaviour, they are a family. Families go on trips, vacation and celebrate dates. They also have 2 incomes.....
> 
> I'm sure like she showed off her ipad, he too has shown off his sunglasses.
> 
> The point is many of us are piling on T2FIO, and he keeps smiling and happy telling us how close to a breakthrough he is.
> 
> He came only to CWI to get new readers (those who do not stray from the section) to share in his madness. The EA is nothing to worry about and yes it may have added to the list of excuses he allows his wife to make, it was no big deal, remember she's social.
> 
> Now he has a date set for January to talk...... Not today, not week or nightly, but in January.... That gives us 7 weeks to talk about it.


While I disagree with his appraoch, he makes his bed and he has to live in it. 

What I wanted to say is that he doesn't have a clue about women if he thinks he has alrady done his Christmas shopping.

If you are trying to make this work, get her a gift, a nice one. She will hear nothing around Christmas time except what everyone's husbands and boyfriends got hem and did for them on Christmas. I cannot fathom how dense it makes you seem to not have presents for your one and only. If she says thats cool, she is lying........................... again.


----------



## Chaparral

For the record, have you read Married Man Sex Life?


----------



## Trying2figureitout

MEM11363 said:


> Maricha,
> Wouldn't that buck your spirits up? Gosh - I can think of no larger ego booster than:
> 
> My wife is texting her affair partner, but since he is ignoring her she needs an ego boost to know that someone still wants her, so she texts me. Sort of a digital sloppy seconds. Deep sigh.
> 
> This would make a fantastic movie script as long as it doesn't end with T2 being in a bad spot.
> 
> OMG T2,
> You TRAVEL A LOT FOR WORK. OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
> 
> So you are frequently away from home on a predictable, schedule. OMG OMG OMG.
> 
> T2 - HELLOOOOOOOO - HELLOOOOOOOOO - IS ANYONE HOME?
> 
> How do you spell physical affair?
> 
> WOW



I don't travel for work. In fact work close to home and come home for lunch.

Problem is our schedules are so different... I start work 6 hours after my wife does. When I'm home for lunch shes at the gym.

So we literally have only two days a week together.

So unlike most spouses that have almost every day to connect at some point. My situation forces only three nights of opportunities for sex each week, this week four. One of those days shes totally exhausted from the workweek. The other two well it depends on her and how she is doing and what time she retires to bed.

Otherwise shes been asleep for hours by the time I get home.

I want to change that.... I want to switch jobs to a higher paying one (which I'm qualified for) with better overlapping together hours. Right now my job is great, I love it but killer on the relationship healing.

I laugh at he 15 hour requirement... no chance the way things are.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

chapparal said:


> For the record, have you read Married Man Sex Life?


YES one of the first books I read cover to cover.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

chapparal said:


> While I disagree with his appraoch, he makes his bed and he has to live in it.
> 
> What I wanted to say is that he doesn't have a clue about women if he thinks he has alrady done his Christmas shopping.
> 
> If you are trying to make this work, get her a gift, a nice one. She will hear nothing around Christmas time except what everyone's husbands and boyfriends got hem and did for them on Christmas. I cannot fathom how dense it makes you seem to not have presents for your one and only. If she says thats cool, she is lying........................... again.


I won't omit XMAS... even though I should after spending a lot on her birthday with little in return. But xmas is xmas. Not going overboard though.

Last year was a similar one where she though I may not get her anything... in the end I got her nice gifts and almost year of no sex.... injury was around xmas.


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

Ovid said:


> Ok... after following this for some time the only pattern I can see is that OP consistently does what everyone suggests will drag out the and consistently avoids any action that could end the A.
> 
> There can only be four explanations for this:
> 1. OP is a troll, and is drawing this on as long as he can taking time away from people who could actually use help.
> 2. OP enjoys the role and the attention of victimhood. He would rather have strangers feel sorry for him than have a faithful wife.
> 3. OP is one of those people that enjoys being a cuckold. He wants his wife to sleep around as that is what he actually derives sexual enjoyment from. He is just using these forums to try and justify his fantasy in his own mind by framing himself as the victim.
> 4. He really is delusional and is in a hospital dressed as Napoleon as he types his posts.
> 
> If he wanted her A to end he would have shown interest in at least one option that could end the A, and it would not have dragged on with his knowledge for three full years. He consistently works against accepting any option suggested by posters for him that could in any way end the A, but always does what posters warn will drag the A out. I can only conclude from this that his goal is actually to extend the A not end it.


#2.


----------



## daisygirl 41

So she is choosing to go to the gym everyday instead of using that lunch time with you to reconnect! 

I don't see my H from Sunday to Wednesday because of our work commitment, then I am also away on a Thursday night, so we make sure that we use the time we have to reconnect. 
Maybe you both need to sit down and discuss your schedules. Is she willing to reschedule her 'gym' time at all to have lunch with you a couple more times a week?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't travel for work. In fact work close to home and come home for lunch.
> 
> Problem is our schedules are so different... I start work 6 hours after my wife does. When I'm home for lunch shes at the gym.
> 
> *So we literally have only two days a week together.*
> 
> So unlike most spouses that have almost every day to connect at some point. *My situation forces only three nights of opportunities for sex each week, this week four.* One of those days shes totally exhausted from the workweek. The other two well it depends on her and how she is doing and what time she retires to bed.
> 
> Otherwise shes been asleep for hours by the time I get home.
> 
> I want to change that.... I want to switch jobs to a higher paying one (which I'm qualified for) with better overlapping together hours. Right now my job is great, I love it but killer on the relationship healing.
> 
> *I laugh at he 15 hour requirement... no chance the way things are.*


Ok, I want to make something clear, T2. The 15 hours isn't for SEX specifically. It is for time together. Intimate, talking, whatever. The point is, you need THAT time together in order to connect. Period. You can spend that time giving each other massages (not necessarily "happy ending" type either, just regular). You can spend that time talking about your new favorite book, or the new hobbies you have taken up. The point is, you need to MAKE that time. You have 2 days off, completely, together... Questions, T2... how many hours are in a day? And how many of those hours are you both awake? How many of them does she do her own thing, without a thought to spending time with you? THIS is the important thing that you fail to grasp. You CAN spend the time together....You just need to DO it. There is opportunity. Why can't you go to the gym during lunch, too? Even if it's just to stop in, drop off her favorite sandwich or whatever for lunch? 

Sigh.... I know you won't implement these things, so I really don't know WHY I am wasting my breath. Bottom line... if she wants the time with you, she will make the effort. It's only impossible if she MAKES it impossible. Stop making excuses.

BTW, when I was pregnant with my middle child, I only saw my husband on weekends. He was in another state, working and going to school. We made the most of the < 48 hours we had together. "No time" is an excuse, nothing more. If you want the time, you will MAKE the time.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

daisygirl 41 said:


> So she is choosing to go to the gym everyday instead of using that lunch time with you to reconnect!
> 
> I don't see my H from Sunday to Wednesday because of our work commitment, then I am also away in a Sunday night, so we make sure that we use the time we have to reconnect.
> Maybe you both need to sit down and discuss your schedules. Is she willing to reschedule her 'gym' time at all to have lunch with you a couple more times a week?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree she should do that... but again that assumes she sees the value. I will bring that up. 

The time she goes is best for her... due to getting dinner ready etc.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree she should do that... but again that assumes she sees the value. I will bring that up.
> 
> The time she goes is best for her... due to getting dinner ready etc.


So...get a crock pot and find some recipes for it. Dinner solved, at least a couple days each week. You have 2 teen boys, there is NO reason THEY can't be cooking too! I was cooking at age 10. My 11 year old son can make some basic meals. Again, excuses. There are options for meals which do not require a lot of work. You still get up at 5am? Put a roast and seasonings in the crock pot on low... it'll be ready by dinnertime.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

one issue I see here from women/wife/girlfriend posters...

YOU ALL CARE and SEEK ANSWERS... you took the initiative to search for answers.

So you look at my wife with that lens.

My wife won't search for answers. So her behaviors or what you all would think she should do... is skewed and does not apply to her.

She obviously has issues mostly self-esteem I believe. Now I'm gradually able to work on these issues. She is MUCH better than before but still has a ways to go.

I don't know where she got screwed up... but she did and its up to me to try to correct it.

I believe I'll be successful because every conversation seems to guide her closer to our better marriage.

There is a lot more than just sex and I see wholesale improvements in other areas. If she were not wanting to work on things I would not see those changes. She does care a lot.

I credit her she herself knows she has some issues. Problem is she doesn't want help and wants to work them out on her own. Her quotes: "How can they change my feelings?", "I don't want to be educated"

So that's where the balancing act comes in. I have to find a balance that guides her back to intimacy. I have several factors that make that hard.... our schedule, the OM text binge/EA, her documented nighttime tired issue, her grudge holding ability. 

Also I tend to self-reject and as you all attest have some issues myself.

So we are 'working" on a solution together yet apart.
The key is we are working on a solution... and that is good.

We both want to move towards an answer.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> So...get a crock pot and find some recipes for it. Dinner solved, at least a couple days each week. You have 2 teen boys, there is NO reason THEY can't be cooking too! I was cooking at age 10. My 11 year old son can make some basic meals. Again, excuses. There are options for meals which do not require a lot of work. You still get up at 5am? Put a roast and seasonings in the crock pot on low... it'll be ready by dinnertime.


Already did crock pot twice this actually me setting it up ... as for the boys helping 'roll-eyes' well that's another story.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> one issue I see here from women/wife/girlfriend posters...
> 
> YOU ALL CARE... you took the initiative to search for answers.
> 
> So you look at my wife with that lens.
> 
> My wife won't search for answers. So her behaviors or what you all would think she should do... is skewed and does not apply to her.
> 
> She obviously has issues mostly self-esteem I believe. Now I'm gradually able to work on these issues. She is MUCH better than before but still has a ways to go.
> 
> I don't know where she got screwed up... but she did and its up to me to try to correct it.
> 
> I believe I'll be successful because every conversation seems to guide her closer to our better marriage.
> 
> There is a lot more than just sex and I see wholesale improvements in other areas. If she were not wanting to work on things I would not see those changes. She does care a lot.
> 
> I credit her she herself knows she has some issues. Problem is she doesn't want help and wants to work them out on her own. Her quote: 'How can they change my feelings?"
> 
> So that's where the balancing act comes in. I have to find a balance that guides her back to intimacy. I have several factors that make that hard.... our schedule, the OM text binge, her documented nighttime tired issue, her grudge holding ability.
> 
> Also I tend to self-reject and as you all attest have some issues myself.
> 
> So we are 'working" on a solution together yet apart.
> The key is we are working on a solution... and that is good.
> 
> We both want to move towards an answer.


T2, I have self esteem issues as well. I always have. But YOU can't get her out of that. YOU can't guide her anywhere when it comes to that. It is something she has to do on her own. She sought validation from OM, and he gladly has given it to her. I did the same. T2, as I said a few pages back... I am a LOT like your wife. A FEW of the things you have stated about yourself, I have seen in my husband (what you call self-rejection). The thing is, he didn't let me do my own thing. I am very social. I love being around people, most of the time. But he is a priority to me... HIGH priority. And that's the big difference here. 

I know you both want to move toward answers to this situation... just don't think HER answers and YOUR answers are on the same wavelength.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Ok, I want to make something clear, T2. The 15 hours isn't for SEX specifically. It is for time together. Intimate, talking, whatever. The point is, you need THAT time together in order to connect. Period. You can spend that time giving each other massages (not necessarily "happy ending" type either, just regular). You can spend that time talking about your new favorite book, or the new hobbies you have taken up. The point is, you need to MAKE that time. You have 2 days off, completely, together... Questions, T2... how many hours are in a day? And how many of those hours are you both awake? How many of them does she do her own thing, without a thought to spending time with you? THIS is the important thing that you fail to grasp. You CAN spend the time together....You just need to DO it. There is opportunity. Why can't you go to the gym during lunch, too? Even if it's just to stop in, drop off her favorite sandwich or whatever for lunch?
> 
> Sigh.... I know you won't implement these things, so I really don't know WHY I am wasting my breath. Bottom line... if she wants the time with you, she will make the effort. It's only impossible if she MAKES it impossible. Stop making excuses.
> 
> BTW, when I was pregnant with my middle child, I only saw my husband on weekends. He was in another state, working and going to school. We made the most of the < 48 hours we had together. "No time" is an excuse, nothing more. If you want the time, you will MAKE the time.


There was a period of time i went to the gym with her after her injury... it wasn't fun. She is one of those 'gym' people that compare their workout to yours. She is a daily gym rat.

I would work out hard for say 45 minutes but she'd want to go longer so i'd sit afterwards and wait for her to finish... reading the paper or something.

Then get an earful about how her workout was better.

Even though i was maxing out all the machines and doing it more intensely but albeit in a shorter time frame.

I am not a 'gym' guy, I like to workout and get out its not my life... so for me its work 45 minutes is more than enough. I got tired of the comments from her so I stopped going. I'm in decent shape without the gym.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> T2, I have self esteem issues as well. I always have. But YOU can't get her out of that. YOU can't guide her anywhere when it comes to that. It is something she has to do on her own. She sought validation from OM, and he gladly has given it to her. I did the same. T2, as I said a few pages back... I am a LOT like your wife. A FEW of the things you have stated about yourself, I have seen in my husband (what you call self-rejection). The thing is, he didn't let me do my own thing. I am very social. I love being around people, most of the time. But he is a priority to me... HIGH priority. And that's the big difference here.
> 
> I know you both want to move toward answers to this situation... just don't think HER answers and YOUR answers are on the same wavelength.


You are probably right... so its a constant struggle.
I do see her changing though so i believe we'll find a decent solution.

She does love me and loves our family so it will be up to her to find a balance. Before time runs out on her. I do believe she is 'working' on things in her own way just taking a long time.


----------



## Maricha75

Trying2figureitout said:


> Already did crock pot twice this actually me setting it up ...* as for the boys helping 'roll-eyes' well that's another story.*


Oh no no no no no. PLEASE tell me they aren't following the "well, mom can go out with her friends, so I can too" crap. Dude, they are your KIDS. Sorry, I can't even comprehend that. Even my 14 year old nephew helps with laundry and cooking, etc.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Oh no no no no no. PLEASE tell me they aren't following the "well, mom can go out with her friends, so I can too" crap. Dude, they are your KIDS. Sorry, I can't even comprehend that. Even my 14 year old nephew helps with laundry and cooking, etc.


No my kids are video game kids. They do some chores but never offer to cook or do laundry.

In reality that is also as side effect of a sexless marriage... I can only take on so many battles. I only have so much to give.

It just isn't worth the effort to try to change them too. I do somewhat as I'm much more strict but its TWO teen boys.
Much harder than just one.

People don't understand the underlying effect a sexless marriage has on the family. WE have suffered over the past three years, we keep it going but things could be so much better.
Its like going through life with an anchor.
I try my best but my best is stunted. My mind is filled with our issue rather than concentrating on other needed things. Its wasteful.

It really is like drained batteries.
So I concentrate efforts on getting intimacy back. As I know that'll help everyone immensely.

Its not like I ignore fathering he kids its just harder to make it a focus as its hard work.
Sex was the "What makes the extra work worth it" stuff. Now without it work on all the other extra stuff seems hard i have no energy to do extra.

Probably like my wife with sex and emotional connection. Its a vicious circle.

The kids are much better as that was a primary corrective focus.. but they aren't what I would call helpful.


----------



## Maricha75

Excuses. That's all you are throwing out there. My kids play their video games as well. My oldest was into World of Warcraft right along with my husband and me. Again, still had the time to do things together. Kids' video games are not a good excuse. You don't wait for them to offer to do stuff around the house... you TELL them to do it. You assign things to each person and they do it. Period. Just another excuse for you to fall back on. Another excuse for you to wallow in self pity.

Meh, whatever. Do what you're gonna do.


----------



## Trying2figureitout

Maricha75 said:


> Excuses. That's all you are throwing out there. My kids play their video games as well. My oldest was into World of Warcraft right along with my husband and me. Again, still had the time to do things together. Kids' video games are not a good excuse. You don't wait for them to offer to do stuff around the house... you TELL them to do it. You assign things to each person and they do it. Period. Just another excuse for you to fall back on. Another excuse for you to wallow in self pity.
> 
> Meh, whatever. Do what you're gonna do.


I tell them to do things. That still doesn't make them helpful.

They don't get a free pass.

Again you never had to endure a sexless marriage either. 

Before sexless I had tons of energy too.
Its not self-pity its factual.


----------



## justbidingtime

Trying2figureitout said:


> There was a period of time i went to the gym with her after her injury... it wasn't fun. She is one of those 'gym' people that compare their workout to yours. She is a daily gym rat.
> 
> *I would work out hard for say 45 minutes but she'd want to go longer so i'd sit afterwards and wait for her to finish... reading the paper or something.*
> 
> *Then get an earful about how her workout was better.*
> 
> Even though i was maxing out all the machines and doing it more intensely but albeit in a shorter time frame.
> 
> I am not a 'gym' guy, I like to workout and get out its not my life... *so for me its work 45 minutes is more than enough. I got tired of the comments from her so I stopped going. I'm in decent shape without the gym.*


You see T2FIO everything you say results in you digging a deeper hole. Your wife has *NO, ZERO, NADA* respect for you..... To take the gym and turn that too into a competition says how little regard she has for you. Bet her "Workout" friend does it for her.

Then you turn around tell us that while not a gym rat are Maxing out machines is very funny. 

You are handsome, in great shape, stopped drinking, fun to be around, well employed and a self-described "Great Catch"..... Go find a sexual partner, because your wife will not be that...... EVER!!!!!!!


----------



## MEM2020

Chap, 
You really would get a nice gift for a wife who shut down sex for 3 years and refuses to go NC with her affair partner? 

Why?


----------



## MEM2020

T2,
She didn't want you there. You know that. It was the reason she kept making disrespectful comments about your workouts - so you would stop going. And it worked. 

If you and your w have breakfast at 5 am and she starts work at 6,and you start work 6 hours later than she does, than you start around noon. 

But you come home for lunch? You go in at noon and come right back?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Trying2figureitout said:


> No my kids are video game kids. They do some chores but never offer to cook or do laundry.
> 
> In reality that is also as side effect of a sexless marriage... I can only take on so many battles. I only have so much to give.
> 
> It just isn't worth the effort to try to change them too. I do somewhat as I'm much more strict but its TWO teen boys.
> Much harder than just one.
> 
> People don't understand the underlying effect a sexless marriage has on the family. WE have suffered over the past three years, we keep it going but things could be so much better.
> Its like going through life with an anchor.
> I try my best but my best is stunted. My mind is filled with our issue rather than concentrating on other needed things. Its wasteful.
> 
> It really is like drained batteries.
> So I concentrate efforts on getting intimacy back. As I know that'll help everyone immensely.
> 
> Its not like I ignore fathering he kids its just harder to make it a focus as its hard work.
> Sex was the "What makes the extra work worth it" stuff. Now without it work on all the other extra stuff seems hard i have no energy to do extra.
> 
> Probably like my wife with sex and emotional connection. Its a vicious circle.
> 
> The kids are much better as that was a primary corrective focus.. but they aren't what I would call helpful.


This would be an excellent example for why it is not a good idea for the BS to stay in a broken marriage for the sake of the children. As you can see, even though the parents are "committed" to keeping the family together, the family is slowly rotting from the inside out. 

FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR CHILDREN, CALL THE DAMN B!TCH OUT ONTO THE CARPET ONCE AND FOR ALL AND DEMAND THAT SHE EITHER STARTS LOVING YOU AGAIN OR YOU START THE DIVORCE TOMORROW!!! Fvck! You are so motherfvcking dense and stubborn! Do you know what this is? This is pride talking. You are so prideful about your so-called fvcked up plan that you can't see that your own family is falling apart in front of your eyes...and your wife is too big of a piece of sh!t to see how she's damaging EVERYONE in your family. Fvck giving her until January...give her until this Sunday and pull the plug she refuses to make changes. 

Fvck, this irritates the sh!t out of me. I think I have to stop reading this thread...


----------



## tamii

37 pages long and nothing can account for the shaved pubes and sexy panties except for a PA (or at least the intention to start one). Pretty damning IMO.


----------



## Chaparral

Trying2figureitout said:


> No my kids are video game kids. They do some chores but never offer to cook or do laundry.
> 
> In reality that is also as side effect of a sexless marriage... I can only take on so many battles. I only have so much to give.
> 
> It just isn't worth the effort to try to change them too. I do somewhat as I'm much more strict but its TWO teen boys.
> Much harder than just one.
> 
> People don't understand the underlying effect a sexless marriage has on the family. WE have suffered over the past three years, we keep it going but things could be so much better.
> Its like going through life with an anchor.
> I try my best but my best is stunted. My mind is filled with our issue rather than concentrating on other needed things. Its wasteful.
> 
> It really is like drained batteries.
> So I concentrate efforts on getting intimacy back. As I know that'll help everyone immensely.
> 
> Its not like I ignore fathering he kids its just harder to make it a focus as its hard work.
> Sex was the "What makes the extra work worth it" stuff. Now without it work on all the other extra stuff seems hard i have no energy to do extra.
> 
> Probably like my wife with sex and emotional connection. Its a vicious circle.
> 
> The kids are much better as that was a primary corrective focus.. but they aren't what I would call helpful.


This is what you should have pointed out when she stated she dicn't want to be educated. I a round about way ask he r how much he family/you are worth. Worth being "educated"? Ask her if the only way to sae her family was MC and IC would she do it? Ask her if she is planning on leaving you when the kids go off to college. First though do some internet research on the signs/body language of lying.

At the gym, she is in competion with you, just say I have different goals than you maybe. My goals are blah blah but I don't want to do more because I don't want to look like a steriod freak (for example) OTOH when we get home we're going to have a little wrestling match. I can lick any girl in here and I'm starting with you. ( one of my old friends favorite lines back in the day)


----------



## Chaparral

MEM11363 said:


> Chap,
> You really would get a nice gift for a wife who shut down sex for 3 years and refuses to go NC with her affair partner?
> 
> Why?


Yes, unless I was doing the 180 and preparing for divorce. I personally know a couple that thought it was pointless to exchange gifts of any kind. They're to the point now where the are only roomates IMHO.


----------



## Duramax

from what im reading, t2 id have to guess the only one in a sexless marriage is you. Good luck with your stratagy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## strugglinghusband

T2...you stopped drinking on the spot once you really knew your wife hated it and how it affected your marriage..correct?
So why shouldnt your wife be held to the same standard by dropping the OM? right now, not next month, not toning it down but dropping him 100% NOW forever.... he is toxic just like the drinking.


----------



## vi_bride04

strugglinghusband said:


> T2...you stopped drinking on the spot once you really knew your wife hated it and how it affected your marriage..correct?
> So why shouldnt your wife be held to the same standard by dropping the OM? right now, not next month, not toning it down but dropping him 100% NOW forever.... he is toxic just like the drinking.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## TRy

strugglinghusband said:


> T2...you stopped drinking on the spot once you really knew your wife hated it and how it affected your marriage..correct?
> So why shouldnt your wife be held to the same standard by dropping the OM? right now, not next month, not toning it down but dropping him 100% NOW forever.... he is toxic just like the drinking.


 Because when he told his wife that it was either drop the affair partner100% or he would file for divorce, she said no she would not drop the affair partner. His choice is now either to accept the affair partner in his wife's life or to file for divorce. He has decided to accept the affair partner in his wife's life while pretending that he has a long term plan that will win her over. For his own sanity he needs to pretend. 3 years of pretending while in a sexless marraige later, and he has signed on to yet another sexless year of pretending going forward.

Given a choice, she picked the affair partner. He does not like it, but he decided to stay anyway. That is his call. At this point, unless he is willing to file for divorce, there is no advice that we can give him anymore.

*Nothing to see here, now move along.*


----------



## jaquen

It's January...


----------



## Kasler

I can already see the title of his next thread. 

" Wife told me ILYBINILWY, moved in with OM"


----------



## Machiavelli

Kasler said:


> I can already see the title of his next thread.
> 
> " Wife told me ILYBINILWY, moved in with OM"


More likely she moved OM into the master bedroom. BH stays in the guest room and cooks for everyone.


----------



## Kasler

Machiavelli said:


> More likely she moved OM into the master bedroom. BH stays in the guest room and cooks for everyone.


I didn't know cooking was a part of his master plan. :rofl:

Perhaps his route to R is through her stomach.


----------



## vi_bride04

Your would think if he got laid by now he would have came back to at least to "prove TAM wrong"


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Machiavelli said:


> More likely she moved OM into the master bedroom. BH stays in the guest room and cooks for everyone.




And OP will try to convince us that they are not banging each others brain out but they are sleeping at two sides of the bed and she will not do anything like that even if she tries something naughty OM will not do that.

Even if OP suspect she is banging OM he will hand over a an article which says having sex with OM is wrong. Then he will leave her and OM in their master bedroom to end it in their own way.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

justbidingtime said:


> *You are handsome, in great shape, stopped drinking, fun to be around, well employed and a self-described "Great Catch"*..... Go find a sexual partner, because your wife will not be that...... EVER!!!!!!!




He may have all the above qualities but he docent have two which good women looks in a man,
1.Self Respect
2.Dignity


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

justbidingtime said:


> Y
> You are handsome, in great shape, stopped drinking, fun to be around, well employed and *a self-described "Great Catch"..*... Go find a sexual partner, because your wife will not be that...... EVER!!!!!!!




*Great catch* for a women who is looking for a great cuckold husband.


----------



## JMGrey

Well, the thread is 38 pages in so I'm obviously late to the party, but I seriously have to question whether this is just a really committed troll, or can a fog really be this thick for a BS? In between the pages and pages of clichés and catchphrases, all I see is a profundity of self-delusion and lack of self-respect the likes of which I have never personally witnessed in my life. I'm really sorry this guy is in his situation (again, that's assuming that this is real), but if I ever knew someone this pitiful I would literally vomit.

For God's sake, man, get some self-respect and take control of your life, on your terms and not hers. How do you expect to win her over (and I question why you'd want to) if she doesn't respect you? How is she supposed to respect you if you don't respect yourself enough to demand that your wife is yours alone? Seriously, this is one of the few times in my life when I have been ashamed of my gender.


----------



## OldWolf57

I think it's he caught her and just can't face TAM.
Or she pulled the plug.

T2, I hope you OK dude.


----------



## Chaparral

He was really irritated with some of the posts. Does anyone know the other site he posted on?


----------



## 3putt

chapparal said:


> He was really irritated with some of the posts. Does anyone know the other site he posted on?


Yeah, it's gotta be tough to realize that complete strangers know his wife (as she is right now) better than he does. Tough pill to swallow for a man.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Bump. Tryingtofigureitout, any updates? I saw you posting in the sexless marriage thread on the SIM forum.


----------



## Chaparral

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Bump. Tryingtofigureitout, any updates? I saw you posting in the sexless marriage thread on the SIM forum.


That makes it sound like thete is no progress, no?


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

chapparal said:


> That makes it sound like thete is no progress, no?


Apologies to the OP if he didn't want this thread resurrected. I saw his name on the last page of a thread. I didn't look that close originally, but I found this a few pages back. I don't think it's any better since Dec, but if his plan is still in progress...who knows... Here is what I found below. T2, hope you come back and give us an update. Maybe we can try to help out again.



> You just do... you accept what it is and move on.... you secretly hope in the future things will change. That's the simple answer.
> 
> If you let it... it will take over your life. If you don't it won't. I never for once feel my sexless situation is anyone's fault because it isn't its just life and things go in ebbs and flows. I've already told my wife my view... she is not deaf last I checked.
> 
> I think the problem with most people is a sense of entitlement your spouse is a person just like you. There are likely many factors involved that are simply beyond your control.... it mostly isn't you.
> 
> For me sex with my wife is a loving mutual thing and that if either party isn't up for it then fine we'll wait. I do think taking this approach helps and in the long run makes you more desirable to your spouse. At least that's my hope.
> 
> The other thing is sex is only a small part of life... look to other things to bring you joy. Your spouse will be more attracted to a joyous person.
> 
> Its a balance... you have to let your spouse know sex is important but at the same time show them it doesn't rule your life.
> 
> This doesn't mean your spouse gets a free ride either... there are some things I'll do and others I'll do better after we have sex. I feel free to call my spouse out on bad behaviors or ignore her whenever I FEEL LIKE IT and not react to any of her 'complaints', I do things on my schedule.... since sex is not a bargaining chip anymore. I basically blew her off on New Years eve.... that night we had sex after she initiated a kiss,
> 
> In the end things will right themselves.... as sex does make life better for both whether or not both spouses realize it.
> 
> Take care of #1... be yourself and don't rely on your spouse...they have issues they are working on so do you.


----------



## Maricha75

Well, here was a few days before that post, Plan 9:



Trying2figureitout said:


> Wounded... you are certainly not the only one.
> 
> My situation closely mirrors yours. I've come to the conclusion its both of us... would be great if we could logically sit down and agree on a solution but it simply doesn't work like that. Sex in the first place didn't work like that it just happened.
> 
> I still believe we'll solve this in time. *In fact her and I did have sex on New Years so 2013 is not a zero*, this occurred after she kissed me willingly, I want obviously what was lost or better from now 3.5 years ago.
> 
> On my end I don't try much which adds to the length of time. *It boils down to the fact if she doesn't want it neither do I. Before she wanted it.. lately she doesn't seem to and prefers sleep.* It sort of is like an animal and live prey vs dead prey. I'm not going to waste a ton of energy and chase after dead prey, I'll wait for live prey.
> 
> *I think in time we'll roll into normal sex life again the hard part is staying sane while in a 'sexless' marriage.* It really is a tough situation with many factors... who said life is easy?
> 
> I think life goes in ebbs and flows.. in time things will flow again easily like before and likely better.


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## Plan 9 from OS

Maricha75 said:


> Well, here was a few days before that post, Plan 9:


By definition, still a sexless marriage, but better than nothing at least. Hopefully, he comes over here to post.


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## LovesHerMan

If he is not willing to take any action, 38 more pages of discussion will not help him.


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## WorkingOnMe

Plan 9 from OS said:


> By definition, still a sexless marriage, but better than nothing at least. Hopefully, he comes over here to post.


Not better than nothing. She threw him scraps to keep him on the line a bit longer.


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## lordmayhem

tamii said:


> 37 pages long and nothing can account for the shaved pubes and sexy panties except for a PA (or at least the intention to start one). Pretty damning IMO.


All this time and another thread about a "EA".

EA confirmed today

Shaved pubes and sexy panties? Who are they for I wonder? Its a sexless marriage right? Then there's the morning kisses text.

Morning Kiss - Urban Dictionary

Some people are just in denial.

The mods should merge these two threads.


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## lordmayhem

Trying2figureitout said:


> We'll see. I don't think there will be a year 4 of sexless but again we'll see.


You're on year 5 dude. And she's still with the OM.

So much for immediately divorcing. :scratchhead:


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## tom67

Self Esteem - The Offspring - YouTube


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## DoktorFun

lordmayhem said:


> You're on year 5 dude. And she's still with the OM.
> 
> So much for immediately divorcing. :scratchhead:



He can't... it's simple. :scratchhead:

He is to weak.


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## WorkingOnMe

How many guy you know who will text like that, give her attention like that in the friend zone for 4 years? Nothing physical my ass.


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## Chaparral

Any new developements?


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