# General marriage sex question



## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Hey folks,
Question if I may. How does one know if there expectations of their wife are unreasonable?
So for me at 43, I know that I would definitely love to be having sex every day. My wife never has and most likely never will so I appreciate there must be a compromise. As it happens we’re struggling at the moment but even when things were good , at most we were twice a week maybe on the odd occasion 3 times but here’s my problem, I was/am never happy. 
I think it’s because it’s always rushed( she’d come to bed at 10:30), It’s always me initiating,rarely she would give me time for foreplay, there will never be any teasing or lingerie.Never morning sex or even anything suggestive when we’re working from hometogether.
I am an open book. She knows I would love it if there was more of all the above. I’ve tried to be spontaneous but I get things like I’ve a meeting in a half hour, I’ve just had a shower etc.
Am I being unreasonable?


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

The most likely answer is that she is not turned on to you sexually. That's a big problem. There may be nothing you can do to fix it.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Sfort said:


> The most likely answer is that she is not turned on to you sexually. That's a big problem. There may be nothing you can do to fix it.


Maybe- I don’t know.
The part that bugs me more than anything is the time she gives for our sex life. Am I unreasonable to expect her to come to bed before 10:30 for intimate moments? As we’ve 3 kids , it’s an early start and I’m usually up first. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for her to come to bed at 9:30 on some nights right ?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Twice to three times per week and you're complaining? Is she satisfied and/or enjoying it when it happens? If so, I think you're being unreasonable honestly. Maybe jump in the shower with her instead of try to catch her afterwards.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

CuriousC said:


> Hey folks,
> Question if I may. How does one know if there expectations of their wife are unreasonable?
> So for me at 43, I know that I would definitely love to be having sex every day. My wife never has and most likely never will so I appreciate there must be a compromise. As it happens we’re struggling at the moment but even when things were good , at most we were twice a week maybe on the odd occasion 3 times but here’s my problem, I was/am never happy.
> I think it’s because it’s always rushed( she’d come to bed at 10:30), It’s always me initiating,rarely she would give me time for foreplay, there will never be any teasing or lingerie.Never morning sex or even anything suggestive when we’re working from hometogether.
> ...


Yes, you may be being unreasonable.

For example, morning sex. I love sex and prefer daily. That said, morning sex isn't really my thing during the work week. I'm worried DH will be late for work and my mind is already on what I have to get done throughout the day.

Another example is initiation. I get that you want her to initiate, but that might be unrealistic. Many women have responsive desire. They don't get spontaneously aroused very often, if at all, and need an outside force to get them thinking about sex. Hormones also play a role. If she's around your age her hormones may be prepping for menopause and influencing her, as well. A woman that isn't jacked up on horny hormones and who has responsive desire isn't likely to initiate.

And, the work thing. My husband basically goes into professional mode and sex/sexuality doesn't exist for him during working hours. I spend a lot of time on the phone with him during the day and our conversations are all about current events, friends and family, researching the answer to questions that crossed our minds, etc. Basic conversation you'd have with a friend. Because he's in promode. Then he comes home, decompresses a bit, stretches, and reconnects with his body and his sexuality. If your wife is like him she's not going to flirt or fool around because she's in professional mode, her mind is on her work, and sex just doesn't exist for her during the workday.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask she come to bed earlier to connect with you intimately whether it be sex or just closeness and touch.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> Twice to three times per week and you're complaining? Is she satisfied and/or enjoying it when it happens? If so, I think you're being unreasonable honestly. Maybe jump in the shower with her instead of try to catch her afterwards.


Three times would be extremely rare now! Most likely alcohol would be involved!!


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

MJJEAN said:


> Yes, you may be being unreasonable.
> 
> For example, morning sex. I love sex and prefer daily. That said, morning sex isn't really my thing during the work week. I'm worried DH will be late for work and my mind is already on what I have to get done throughout the day.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. Hormones now maybe but this is the way it’s been for many years. I don’t expect miracles or acrobatics but I would have thought a bit of flirting or the want to wear nice lingerie every now and then is reasonable. Aside from all this I’m not sure I can put up with feeling so frustrated all the time. I’d be happier if the times we did have sex were more fun and more time allocated but alas I can’t see it change.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Maybe your wife is entering menopause and her desire has plummeted?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe your wife is entering menopause and her desire has plummeted?


At 43?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CuriousC said:


> Hey folks,
> Question if I may. How does one know if there expectations of their wife are unreasonable?
> So for me at 43, I know that I would definitely love to be having sex every day. *My wife never has *and most likely never will so I appreciate there must be a compromise. As it happens we’re struggling at the moment but even when things were good , at most we were twice a week maybe on the odd occasion 3 times but here’s my problem, I was/am never happy.
> I think it’s because it’s always rushed( she’d come to bed at 10:30), It’s always me initiating,rarely she would give me time for foreplay, there will never be any teasing or lingerie.Never morning sex or even anything suggestive when we’re working from hometogether.
> ...


You say she never has wanted intimacy every day, even during the first year? Sounds like intimacy (with you?) has always been a low priority in her life. She knows what would make you happier but doesn't care. She uses any excuse possible to limit how often and how long she cares to be intimate with you. Most wives love their husbands enough to go the extra mile to make them happy. I have never heard my wife say the infamous "too tired", or "too busy". And I have never said those words to her.

Your wife will decrease the frequency and time spent with you as the years go on to just what you will tolerate. A key question is does she have longing for intimacy, but you just aren't who she desires? Sorry, but it ain't gonna get better, so you will just have to accept the crumbs for the rest of your life or move on down the road.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> At 43?


My wife was in her early 40s when she became perimenopausal.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> At 43?


Perimenopause... the accepted range of menopause is 45-55...


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Maybe your wife is entering menopause and her desire has plummeted?


Possibly. But it’s been this way for years


Rus47 said:


> You say she never has wanted intimacy every day, even during the first year? Sounds like intimacy (with you?) has always been a low priority in her life. She knows what would make you happier but doesn't care. She uses any excuse possible to limit how often and how long she cares to be intimate with you. Most wives love their husbands enough to go the extra mile to make them happy. I have never heard my wife say the infamous "too tired", or "too busy". And I have never said those words to her.
> 
> Your wife will decrease the frequency and time spent with you as the years go on to just what you will tolerate. A key question is does she have longing for intimacy, but you just aren't who she desires? Sorry, but it ain't gonna get better, so you will just have to accept the crumbs for the rest of your life or move on down the road.





Rus47 said:


> You say she never has wanted intimacy every day, even during the first year? Sounds like intimacy (with you?) has always been a low priority in her life. She knows what would make you happier but doesn't care. She uses any excuse possible to limit how often and how long she cares to be intimate with you. Most wives love their husbands enough to go the extra mile to make them happy. I have never heard my wife say the infamous "too tired", or "too busy". And I have never said those words to her.
> 
> Your wife will decrease the frequency and time spent with you as the years go on to just what you will tolerate. A key question is does she have longing for intimacy, but you just aren't who she desires? Sorry, but it ain't gonna get better, so you will just have to accept the crumbs for the rest of your life or move on down the road.


oh during the first year or so courting she did.
now it’s tv and her phone. She


Rus47 said:


> You say she never has wanted intimacy every day, even during the first year? Sounds like intimacy (with you?) has always been a low priority in her life. She knows what would make you happier but doesn't care. She uses any excuse possible to limit how often and how long she cares to be intimate with you. Most wives love their husbands enough to go the extra mile to make them happy. I have never heard my wife say the infamous "too tired", or "too busy". And I have never said those words to her.
> 
> Your wife will decrease the frequency and time spent with you as the years go on to just what you will tolerate. A key question is does she have longing for intimacy, but you just aren't who she desires? Sorry, but it ain't gonna get better, so you will just have to accept the crumbs for the rest of your life or move on down the road.





Rus47 said:


> You say she never has wanted intimacy every day, even during the first year? Sounds like intimacy (with you?) has always been a low priority in her life. She knows what would make you happier but doesn't care. She uses any excuse possible to limit how often and how long she cares to be intimate with you. Most wives love their husbands enough to go the extra mile to make them happy. I have never heard my wife say the infamous "too tired", or "too busy". And I have never said those words to her.
> 
> Your wife will decrease the frequency and time spent with you as the years go on to just what you will tolerate. A key question is does she have longing for intimacy, but you just aren't who she desires? Sorry, but it ain't gonna get better, so you will just have to accept the crumbs for the rest of your life or move on down the road.


during the first year I know she loved me and desired me. She wore lingerie, she flirted. Now, 15 years married,3 kids later - nothing!! I understand it’s difficult to keep the flame lit but I’ve tried. All she wants is tv/phone. Sex, is definitely not a priority. She knows my needs of course! Maybe she doesn’t desire me anymore.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

CuriousC said:


> It’s always me initiating


I think trying to get the lower-desire partner to initiate is a mistake.



CuriousC said:


> Am I being unreasonable?


_It's the wrong question_. Sex isn't about reasonableness. It's more likely you're being unskilful in your approach.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

You’re not being unreasonable to want a stronger sexual connection with your wife, or to want her to be a fully engaged, enthusiastic sex partner. 

2-3 times / week is nothing to complain about (sure it could be more but 2-3x is not a sexual desert), though if I read you right it’s more about the quality and her lack of enthusiasm / interest. 
Usually (almost always) when a wife isn’t into sex, it means she isn’t into sex with you. Usually because she has lost some desire/attraction for you. If this is the case, it can be recoverable, depending on the situation.

What happens when you initiate earlier in the evening or in the morning?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If you are wanting wild monkey sex with lingerie and swinging from the chandeliers and swedish porn stars and brazilian oil orgies every day - then yes that is unrealistic for a middle age married couple with children in the home. 

Even real swedish porn stars and Brazilians that have real oil orgies do not have sex lives like that at home with their partners. 

If you want a sex life like that you'll need to learn to play guitar well enough to join Motley Crue and see if you can get some of Vince Neal's leftovers. 

I think a key question here that noone has asked yet is what is the QUALITY of sex for both of you when you do have it?

Once you get into full stride and are doing it, is she engaged and into it? Does she seem content and satisfied when you're done? Does she cuddle and melt into you? 

Or is she looking at the clock and telling you to hurry up and telling you to keep it down so the kids don't hear and does she seem generally awkward and uncomfortable and that she is doing it just to appease you and shut you up? The moment it is over does she push you away and run into the bathroom to decontaminate and then resume some activity on her own such as get on her phone to see what other people are eating or what their cat is doing, or even just pushing away from you to roll over and sleep? 

What is the quality of the sex you are having?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Thanks for the response. Hormones now maybe but this is the way it’s been for many years. I don’t expect miracles or acrobatics but I would have thought a bit of flirting or the want to wear nice lingerie every now and then is reasonable. Aside from all this I’m not sure I can put up with feeling so frustrated all the time. I’d be happier if the times we did have sex were more fun and more time allocated but alas I can’t see it change.


I know you have another thread that I haven't had time to read, so maybe you addressed this, but how clear have you made your needs to her? You say you are an open book and she knows...but have you made it easy for her to dismiss you and get what she wants (you backing off), instead of being clear and firm about exactly what you need and want...??

I hate to say this, but your situation is VERY common and I have only heard of one or two times where the person seeking a restoration of their sex life actually had a partner who showed any interest in meeting their needs and making compromises. There is almost NO history of success for people who get to this point with their spouses/partners.

You are going to have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to get her attention, and even then, she will most likely slip back into her REAL sexual self, and REAL feelings about sex with you as soon as the threat of you leaving has passed. 

What you need to do is be truly honest with yourself about what you will do if you NEVER have the sex life you want with her, and then prepare yourself for that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Honestly the amount doesn't seem bad I think your issue is with the quality. I bet that is probably because for her there is no emotional investment.

I suggest you try to tie your emotional intimacy with your wife to your sexual intimacy. But I think you need to understand that in yourself. In other words I suspect you feel close to your wife after you have sex, you feel connected. I bet this is a big part of what you are desiring from that part of your relationship, but I wonder if you have explained that to her. I don't mean sitting her down and saying it. I mean making that a part of your discussions about sex. "I just don't feel close to you when we are physically intimate for a while", stuff like that. You should begin to talk to her about that but also "reward" her, for lack of a better word, try to connect to her emotionally during and after the fact, but the point is associate the emotional to your physical intimacy.

It goes without saying that you need to be emotionally close to your wife right? If you aren't then you have a lot of work to do.

Look, this is going to sound weird but I have been reading these boards for a while now and this is what I think I have learned. One thing you find out about affairs is it that is exactly what men do to get normally moral women to cheat on their husbands. Generally they are emotionally detached from their husbands because of the reasons I list below, and they take advantage of that void. (NOT AN EXCUSE, just and observation.) They become very emotionally close to these women, they gain their trust and then they tie that emotional trust into the idea that sex is a fun part of that. It's necessary to get even closer. The women want this, enjoy it and more often then not open up physically because they have already opened up and feel safe emotionally. There is nothing wrong with this IF this kind of behavior is between a husband and wife. Actually that is supposed to be how it works. Your wife needs to feel excited and safe with you emotionally first. She need to trust you emotionally.

The problem is in a marriage after years of being together this is not as easy to do and so sex become more about functionality, or just fulfilling a need. Essentially about getting off, now I get that as I am a man, we DO have needs. But I think wives resent that. They don't want to feel like a tool for you. Just like you wouldn't want to just be a pay check so to speak. This is probably where you guys are at. You need to connect emotionally with your wife and make it fun again, then bring your sex life into that fun. Make it about connecting and being close. I think this is really what people particularly women talk about when they say they need romance. Romance just really means connecting emotionally. It's like emotional foreplay and it's why lot of women say they expect it. (Nothing wrong with that, it's a good thing in your toolkit once you understand it.)

It may take some time before she really feels safe emotionally, so don't expect hot sex to happen after one date, it will probably take some time and constancy on your part, but if you love your wife you should enjoy this. If and when sex does happen then you need to get her off when you are doing it, every time. I think this is how you can lock her into it. But she needs to really enjoy it. Make that a mission.

Now some things that can hinder it is if she has lost respect for you from past actions. Like, cheating behavior, making very stupid decisions, being mean to her, just being selfish, or very importantly BEING A PUSHOVER OR PASSIVE. If you have done that then you need to work hard to get her forgiveness. You are never going to have a good sex life unless you do. Your wife needs to trust you emotionally. This is why being assertive is important, if she can't trust that you are emotionally strong, assertive, getting your **** done, she is not going to risk being open with you. It think this is why many wives test their husbands. I think the best thing that all husbands can do to have good marriages is to "be the man his wife respects".

Also you need to actively work to be attractive for her, in exactly the same importance that it is for you for her to actively work to be attractive to you. Too many men think that women's attraction is predicated on us being nice, or doing stuff for them. That's just straight up ********, which has been propagated by the media for years and years. Darrin Stephens getting Samantha is as fictional as him marring some super powered witch. (I know I am dating myself but it's the best example I can think of.) Dudes a doofus and she was smoking hot. In real life women don't want Woody Allen (except maybe as a novelty) they want Han Solo.

Finally you should do some reading about women's sexual nature. No one teaches us that, and frankly if anything because of our culture's Victorian history it's been actively hidden and denied. It's been seen as something that is bad and dangerous. Again ********. Figure your wife's out, play to it, celebrate it, show her that that is a part of her you love and turns you on.

Seems like a lot, but it's really not. This is what husbands should be doing all along. There are some who get this, and they have awesome sex lives with their wives, their wives desire them. Doing this is really no different then what most men wish their wives would do for them. We probably don't think of it that way, but I think all of us wish she actively tried to play to our sexual nature and satisfy us. You can lead in this part of your marriage.

One other thing, it can be all pursue, pursue, pursue. That doesn't work, if you do what I say, and she rejects you, then you have to detach, and I mean don't be actively nice (don't have to be mean, more cold). Make her chase you. This seems like a game, but it also seems like most humans need or maybe even want to play it. Unfortunately fear is a good emotional lubricant to help create human actions.

If you do all that and nothing changes or she doesn't care if you detach, then maybe you should just assume she isn't that into you. Then it's probably time to rethink things. Never assume your spouse isn't into sex, nope they are into sex just not with you. That is a brutal truth but one you sometimes have to face. Can't fix that.

So that is what I have gotten with 5 years of reading and studying these boards. Take from it what you think is useful.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

sokillme said:


> That's my two cents.


Or two dollars.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> You’re not being unreasonable to want a stronger sexual connection with your wife, or to want her to be a fully engaged, enthusiastic sex partner.
> 
> 2-3 times / week is nothing to complain about (sure it could be more but 2-3x is not a sexual desert), though if I read you right it’s more about the quality and her lack of enthusiasm / interest.
> Usually (almost always) when a wife isn’t into sex, it means she isn’t into sex with you. Usually because she has lost some desire/attraction for you. If this is the case, it can be recoverable, depending on the situation.
> ...


Yes you’ve hit the proverbial nail on the head. I do want more closeness. With 3 kids and full time jobs - I do crave her closeness. Of course sex but it’s not just that at all. I just don’t think she has energy or desire for me. I think her diet and lack of exercise is not helping her.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> If you are wanting wild monkey sex with lingerie and swinging from the chandeliers and swedish porn stars and brazilian oil orgies every day - then yes that is unrealistic for a middle age married couple with children in the home.
> 
> Even real swedish porn stars and Brazilians that have real oil orgies do not have sex lives like that at home with their partners.
> 
> ...


Quality has not been good for many years now! Every now and then we have a great session(3-4 times a year) and I think brilliant this is what we need to keep going but then it just doesn’t happen. I can’t tell you why🤷‍♂️


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I know you have another thread that I haven't had time to read, so maybe you addressed this, but how clear have you made your needs to her? You say you are an open book and she knows...but have you made it easy for her to dismiss you and get what she wants (you backing off), instead of being clear and firm about exactly what you need and want...??
> 
> I hate to say this, but your situation is VERY common and I have only heard of one or two times where the person seeking a restoration of their sex life actually had a partner who showed any interest in meeting their needs and making compromises. There is almost NO history of success for people who get to this point with their spouses/partners.
> 
> ...


Yes I’ve read about the 180 - I’m about a week or more in. It’s a bit of an eye opener but difficult at the same time as I’m scared to break up my family but I have realised that this can’t go on as it won’t be good for our whole family. Yes we’ve had the chats , not necessarily ultimatums but said clearly. 
the big thing that still bothers me is the fact she books trips with her friends for a week away(Vegas, Dubai).It’s not that I don’t trust her but she’s out partying every night having fun. Yet for us she’s no energy for much. I do think she’s bored with her life in some ways. She does find me much fun I don’t think.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Edited due to new information


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

sokillme said:


> Honestly the amount doesn't seem bad I think your issue is with the quality. I bet that is probably because for her there is no emotional investment.
> 
> I suggest you try to tie your emotional intimacy with your wife to your sexual intimacy. But I think you need to understand that in yourself. In other words I suspect you feel close to your wife after you have sex, you feel connected. I bet this is a big part of what you are desiring from that part of your relationship, but I wonder if you have explained that to her. I don't mean sitting her down and saying it. I mean making that a part of your discussions about sex. "I just don't feel close to you when we are physically intimate for a while", stuff like that. You should begin to talk to her about that but also "reward" her, for lack of a better word, try to connect to her emotionally during and after the fact, but the point is associate the emotional to your physical intimacy.
> 
> ...


Wow very insightful! Thanks
At present I’m being a bit cold - definitely not nasty. Night time - I always head to bed around 10 or so - she’ll always come 15-20 mins after me. But I’m not waiting for her anymore.
Physically I’m fit and strong and do exercise daily. She doesn’t. She’s quite lazy if I’m honest. When she dresses up she’s still very attractive in my eyes, much more attractive to look at than me !! But she has put on weight from no exercise, she’s always stiff and sore. Always tired. Being honest I’m not surprised she’s not interested- she has no good hormones flowing from exercise. I don’t expect her to chase me - she knows I’m always there. She knows I’m a good husband. We’re living in the same house at the moment. She hasn’t given me a complimentary comment ever I think . As i write this I feel annoyed inside. What do I have to do ???
Yes we’ve had our fights in the past- always related to the same thing ! Nothing has changed ! She’s even admitted to being lazy In the relationship but alas it doesn’t change


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Nothing has changed! She’s even admitted to being lazy in the relationship, but alas it doesn’t change.


She's either content with things the way they are, or she has her eyes pointed in a different direction.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Sfort said:


> She's either content with things the way they are, or she has her eyes pointed in a different direction.


I’d say content and can’t understand why I’m not content.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

It's rare that women want sex as often as men or initiate as often. With three kids, 2-3 times a week, you're lucky you're getting that. Kids are exhausting. Everyday sex may be normal for new couples before kids, but after a few years marriage, things die down, passion definitely wanes and with kids, too busy to care and not at all sexy.

Kids bring a lot of complications to your sex life because whoever is the primary caretaker is exhausted and NOT on their own schedule they would prefer to be on already and there are not enough hours in the day for them to get it all done, much less pamper themselves, so asking her to change the crap schedule she's already compromised to eek out for herself is unreasonable. 

Other factors such as resentment about why you're so peppy and she's so exhausted certainly surface after children, so give that one some thought and see if you're doing all you can around the house and with the kids. She likely simply has no energy, but here you are all amped up only thinking about sex while likely she has 10 priorities ahead of that just running the household and keeping up with the kids and doing the shopping, being their taxi, and a million other things there aren't enough hours in the day for. Chances are she also has no time to make herself feel pretty like she would have when she was younger before kids and just isn't in the "I'm sexy" mode. 

Hormones won't fix that. They don't give you more energy. If she's having sex 2-3 times a week, she doesn't have a hormone deficiency. She is scrambling to keep everyone happy -- whether she feels like it or not, which is very unselfish. I wouldn't press it or you may get surprised with a b**ch bomb at your face the likes of which you've never seen before. 

Remember too, no one likes desperation and whining nor finds it attractive or manly, so don't go there or you'll find yourself on the "he's the fourth child I have to take care of" list.

Sorry. I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Hope things work out for you and your family.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's rare that women want sex as often as men or initiate as often. With three kids, 2-3 times a week, you're lucky you're getting that. Kids are exhausting. Everyday sex may be normal for new couples before kids, but after a few years marriage, things die down, passion definitely wanes and with kids, too busy to care and not at all sexy.
> 
> Kids bring a lot of complications to your sex life because whoever is the primary caretaker is exhausted and NOT on their own schedule they would prefer to be on already and there are not enough hours in the day for them to get it all done, much less pamper themselves, so asking her to change the crap schedule she's already compromised to eek out for herself is unreasonable.
> 
> ...


Thanks. We both share responsibilities in the house. I have endeavoured to make her life easier. I won’t anymore because it doesn’t make a difference and I’ve got to think of me now. I appreciate your comments and I understand where you’re coming from but there’s some reason how she has tonnes of energy when she wants to do something but none for us. Some People keep picking up on sex twice a week but forgetting about quality. It mostly feels like pity sex - keep him happy etc Most times there’s no real intimacy as she holds the cards. She’ll never ever talk about sex and our sex life! She’ll never organise a night away for us - I have on countless occasions! Anyway thanks


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Y


CuriousC said:


> I’d say content and can’t understand why I’m not content.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> You say she works full time? What percentage of household responsibilities does she have. Be honest. Running a household AND working is exhausting. If she carries the main bulk you are lucky to get sex a few times a week. Many men say they “help” their wives running the home but that “helping” amounts to about 20% of the burden only. She also needs downtime after house stuff is done, that is why she is on her phone TV etc. How come you have the time to go to bed so early?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> Thanks. We both share responsibilities in the house. *I have endeavoured to make her life easier. I won’t anymore because it doesn’t make a difference and I’ve got to think of me now.* I appreciate your comments and I understand where you’re coming from but there’s some reason how she has tonnes of energy when she wants to do something but none for us. Some People keep picking up on sex twice a week but forgetting about quality. It mostly feels like pity sex - keep him happy etc Most times there’s no real intimacy as she holds the cards. She’ll never ever talk about sex and our sex life! She’ll never organise a night away for us - I have on countless occasions! Anyway thanks


Seriously, you just answered your own question. "It doesn't make any difference." So because she's not paying you with more sex for being a partner in your own home with your own family, you just abdicate your responsibilities. That's mature. She's taking care of everyone and you the best she can. And yes, she probably isn't attracted to you anymore given this new information. She just has a sense of responsibility. But she's also got one to herself and her kids.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Physically I’m fit and strong and do exercise daily. She doesn’t. She’s quite lazy if I’m honest. When she dresses up she’s still very attractive in my eyes, much more attractive to look at than me !! But she has put on weight from no exercise, she’s always stiff and sore. Always tired. Being honest I’m not surprised she’s not interested- she has no good hormones flowing from exercise. I don’t expect her to chase me - *she knows I’m always there.* She knows I’m a good husband. We’re living in the same house at the moment. She hasn’t given me a complimentary comment ever I think . As i write this I feel annoyed inside. What do I have to do ???
> Yes we’ve had our fights in the past- always related to the same thing ! Nothing has changed ! She’s even admitted to being lazy In the relationship but alas it doesn’t change


This is the problem. Women (and probably men to some degree ) will put it in as little effort as they are required to and they will act as badly as they’re allowed to. You’ve been allowing her to coast by, getting what she wants, without putting any effort in. That needs to stop now.

You can’t control her interest/attraction /investment/behavior, you can only control you. If she is not invested and putting in the effort you need from her, you remove your time and attention. She needs to understand that you are a man with options, and you will only continue to be there if she’s putting in the effort to keep you (and if the above isn’t true, start doing the things necessary to make it true).

And don’t make ultimatums, they are typically made from a position of weakness and desperation, are usually recognized as such, and rarely work.
Just start doing your own thing, make your expectations clear, and act accordingly. If she’s not doing what she needs to do you can find somewhere else to be, something else to do and start planning your own future.

You mentioned the 180, that’s a good start but if things are currently cordial between you two, I wouldn’t do a hard 180. Do it functionally, but don’t be overly cold or adversarial, be pleasant and charming as you go about it. Just remove your time and attention And focus on you and the rest of your family.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Kids bring a lot of complications to your sex life because whoever is the primary caretaker is exhausted and NOT on their own schedule they would prefer to be on already and there are not enough hours in the day for them to get it all done, much less pamper themselves, so asking her to change the crap schedule she's already compromised to eek out for herself is unreasonable.


A lot of women say this, right before they start an affair.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

After reading through your other thread and your additional posts on this thread, I'm amending my earlier posts. 

this likely goes beyond the regular slow down of marital sex after kids and years of marriage. 

You are clearly showing signs of built up resentment and discord and I assume she is probably developing resentments and discords of her own as well. This would go beyond date nights and weekend getaways to address. 

This may require some professional MC to address.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sfort said:


> A lot of women say this, right before they start an affair.


I'm not saying she is having an affair (nor am I saying she is not) but the women you are referencing will often talk about how busy they are and how much work they have to do in the marriage and that the H is not doing enough with the house or the kids etc etc - But they are still able to find the time and energy to get down with Sven From Yoga or Steve In Accounting.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not saying she is having an affair (nor am I saying she is not) but the women you are referencing will often talk about how busy they are and how much work they have to do in the marriage and that the H is not doing enough with the house or the kids etc etc - But they are still able to find the time and energy to get down with Sven From Yoga or Steve In Accounting.


I'm not saying she's having an affair, either. Otherwise, I think we are in violent agreement.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not saying she is having an affair (nor am I saying she is not) but the women you are referencing will often talk about how busy they are and how much work they have to do in the marriage and that the H is not doing enough with the house or the kids etc etc - But they are still able to find the time and energy to get down with Sven From Yoga or Steve In Accounting.


She certainly finds the time and energy to go on girl trips to far away places (i.e far away from husband and anyone else that might know her).
OP, i’m also not saying that she’s cheating, but these kind of trips to these kind of places are a disaster waiting to happen (and it often does).

She may or may not have had actual sex with another man on these trips, but if she’s out partying without you in far away places - I can almost guarantee you she has crossed boundaries and acted inappropriately. I can tell you there’s no way in hell I would allow such trips.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's rare that women want sex as often as men or initiate as often. With three kids, 2-3 times a week, you're lucky you're getting that. Kids are exhausting. Everyday sex may be normal for new couples before kids, but after a few years marriage, things die down, passion definitely wanes and with kids, too busy to care and not at all sexy.
> 
> Kids bring a lot of complications to your sex life because whoever is the primary caretaker is exhausted and NOT on their own schedule they would prefer to be on already and there are not enough hours in the day for them to get it all done, much less pamper themselves, so asking her to change the crap schedule she's already compromised to eek out for herself is unreasonable.
> 
> ...


Understood!
I know I put plenty of effort in - I’m really not concerned about that part. They are our kids and I love them and I do as much as I can for them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> She certainly finds the time and energy to go on girl trips to far away places (i.e far away from husband and anyone else that might know her).
> OP, i’m also not saying that she’s cheating, but these kind of trips to these kind of places are a disaster waiting to happen (and it often does).
> 
> She may or may not have had actual sex with another man on these trips, but if she’s out partying without you in far away places - I can almost guarantee you she has crossed boundaries and acted inappropriately. I can tell you there’s no way in hell I would allow such trips.


She's an adult. No one can forbid her from doing anything that she wants. 

It's never a question of "allowing" someone to do something. It's a question of will you still be in the marriage/relationship when she gets back.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Seriously, you just answered your own question. "It doesn't make any difference." So because she's not paying you with more sex for being a partner in your own home with your own family, you just abdicate your responsibilities. That's mature. She's taking care of everyone and you the best she can. And yes, she probably isn't attracted to you anymore given this new information. She just has a sense of responsibility. But she's also got one to herself and her kids.


It’s not a payment - I’m doing it because I want to


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> She's an adult. No one can forbid her from doing anything that she wants.
> 
> It's never a question of "allowing" someone to do something. It's a question of will you still be in the marriage/relationship when she gets back.


She of course can do what she wants as she’s an adult ! I do resent that I’m never in her plans and how she has lots of energy for all nighters with her friends and none for me


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> She's an adult. No one can forbid her from doing anything that she wants.
> 
> It's never a question of "allowing" someone to do something. It's a question of will you still be in the marriage/relationship when she gets back.


It’s unfortunate that this distinction needs to be specified and stipulated, but yes that’s what I meant. As I have often said, you can’t control what she does but you can decide what behavior You will except from your wife. She can do whatever she wants, but not as your wife.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> After reading through your other thread and your additional posts on this thread, I'm amending my earlier posts.
> 
> this likely goes beyond the regular slow down of marital sex after kids and years of marriage.
> 
> ...


I think you’re right. Previous efforts mostly on my part have failed to improve things. This is all very difficult for me to be honest. It’s eating away at me. I don’t want a broken marriage and family. I’m willing to do as much as I can but I can’t make her do anything. It has to be her that wants to sort it. I went for a spin in the car for an hour to listen to music and sing along. It helped. I know the evening is going to be the same as every other - 2 people staring at the screen. Probably she’s as unhappy as me and maybe resentful of me for not showing affection. I just don’t know what to do. I don’t know if this can be saved . The only thing I know is that it can’t continue this way. She’s planning house refurbishments etc . We’ve a holiday booked for august but my mind is not in any of it.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Perimenopause... the accepted range of menopause is 45-55...


So are you all saying it's okay to have no sex life with your wife after age 40ish _because perimenopause?_ Cuz I know a lot of women in real life that age (40s and 50s) and older, who still have a very satisfying and regular sex life. And some on this very forum. But if someone wants to tell themself the reason they have no sex life is because their wife is 40ish or 50ish and that's just life for everyone, whatever. But it's certainly not the truth---- many many couples 40 and older are having a great sex life. Just not the ones who say, oh perimenopause at 43, guess sex is over forever, oh well, it's how it is.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> So are you all saying it's okay to have no sex life with your wife after age 40ish _because perimenopause?_ Cuz I know a lot of women in real life that age (40s and 50s) and older, who still have a very satisfying and regular sex life. And some on this very forum. But if someone wants to tell themself the reason they have no sex life is because their wife is 40ish or 50ish and that's just life for everyone, whatever. But it's certainly not the truth---- many many couples 40 and older are having a great sex life. Just not the ones who say, oh perimenopause at 43, guess sex is over forever, oh well, it's how it is.


Thanks for the comment- it’s reassuring to hear.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Honestly, there are a million married people out there who would feel great about sex 2-3 times a week. Now I get that you feel there's some undertone of not caring, but she isn't shirking her responsibilities, so she does care, just not maybe in the particular way you wish she did, but she has other priorities. You certainly can't accuse her of shirking her duties having sex with you 2-3 times a week, no matter what. If after this long you need some extra validation or to be chased to feel attractive or wanted or something, that's pretty unrealistic after being married a long time. It just is. 

I saw all these people saying she's cheating. I have only read this one thread, your posts, so if you have other threads where you know that, of course, my response isn't going to take that into account. I don't see how she even has time for cheating or the desire. I imagine she's getting all the sex she wants and more from you 2-3 times a week. You shouldn't resent her having other things she does and doing something she likes to do once in awhile with friends or whatever.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Honestly, there are a million married people out there who would feel great about sex 2-3 times a week. Now I get that you feel there's some undertone of not caring, but she isn't shirking her responsibilities, so she does care, just not maybe in the particular way you wish she did, but she has other priorities. You certainly can't accuse her of shirking her duties having sex with you 2-3 times a week, no matter what. If after this long you need some extra validation or to be chased to feel attractive or wanted or something, that's pretty unrealistic after being married a long time. It just is.
> 
> I saw all these people saying she's cheating. I have only read this one thread, your posts, so if you have other threads where you know that, of course, my response isn't going to take that into account. I don't see how she even has time for cheating or the desire. I imagine she's getting all the sex she wants and more from you 2-3 times a week. You shouldn't resent her having other things she does and doing something she likes to do once in awhile with friends or whatever.


This is completely wrong.
It has nothing to do with the frequency (and he said that frequency isn’t even consistent, just a best case scenario). It’s more about the quality of sex and her enthusiasm in being sexual with him and him in general. It’s about her having energy to runoff on girls trips to go party it up, but no energy to be sexual and engaged with him.
It’s about her lack of sexual attraction and desire for him, and what to do about it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> So are you all saying it's okay to have no sex life with your wife after age 40ish _because perimenopause?_ Cuz I know a lot of women in real life that age (40s and 50s) and older, who still have a very satisfying and regular sex life. And some on this very forum. But if someone wants to tell themself the reason they have no sex life is because their wife is 40ish or 50ish and that's just life for everyone, whatever.* But it's certainly not the truth---- many many couples 40 and older are having a great sex life*. Just not the ones who say, oh perimenopause at 43, guess sex is over forever, oh well, it's how it is.


How about mid-70s? Both wife n I are that age and we are as active as we have ever been. Age can cause difficulties for both men and women, but in most cases there are solutions and "workarounds". Where there is a will there is a way


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> This is completely wrong.
> It has nothing to do with the frequency (and he said that frequency isn’t even consistent, just a best case scenario). It’s more about the quality of sex and her enthusiasm in being sexual with him and him in general. It’s about her having energy to runoff on girls trips to go party it up, but no energy to be sexual and engaged with him.
> It’s about her lack of sexual attraction and desire for him, and what to do about it.


If she's still having sex with him 2-3 times a week, he doesn't really have a problem, and he's got no right to resent her time spent doing other things since she obviously spends way most of her time taking care of the family. I think his expectations are very unrealistic and he's just looking not for marriage partner type relationship but the excitement of young singles sex, when people don't really know you yet and haven't built up a realistic idea of you and are still starry eyed and eager instead of thinking about if you're doing your part and being exhausted. 

Expecting her to be sexually way above average just because he likes sex more frequently is not fair. She sounds like she does way more than he does, too, and still makes time for him and has sex 2-3 times a week, but he's acting like a spoiled toddler because he can't have it every time he wants it and for her to act like someone she isn't when she's having it. He knows who he married.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she's still having sex with him 2-3 times a week, he doesn't really have a problem, and he's got no right to resent her time spent doing other things since she obviously spends way most of her time taking care of the family. I think his expectations are very unrealistic and he's just looking not for marriage partner type relationship but the excitement of young singles sex, when people don't really know you yet and haven't built up a realistic idea of you and are still starry eyed and eager instead of thinking about if you're doing your part and being exhausted.
> 
> Expecting her to be sexually way above average just because he likes sex more frequently is not fair. She sounds like she does way more than he does, too, and still makes time for him and has sex 2-3 times a week, but he's acting like a spoiled toddler because he can't have it every time he wants it and for her to act like someone she isn't when she's having it. He knows who he married.


I don’t think your comment is fair. I’m not sure how from reading my messages that I come across as a spoiled toddler?
Am I wrong for expecting / seeking a passionate / loving relationship with the women I married. You seem to somehow think that I do way less than my wife in terms of our family responsibilities- it’s 2021 - we’re equal !!
I wouldn’t be posting if i didn’t want to make this work between us. I’ve emphasised that I want to avoid breakups etc I signed up for the long road and I want to travel it with her but we are struggling and i want to improve it. It’s not just for me - it’s for us.
Thanks


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Livvie said:


> So are you all saying it's okay to have no sex life with your wife after age 40ish _because perimenopause?_ Cuz I know a lot of women in real life that age (40s and 50s) and older, who still have a very satisfying and regular sex life. And some on this very forum. But if someone wants to tell themself the reason they have no sex life is because their wife is 40ish or 50ish and that's just life for everyone, whatever. But it's certainly not the truth---- many many couples 40 and older are having a great sex life. Just not the ones who say, oh perimenopause at 43, guess sex is over forever, oh well, it's how it is.


I'm SO glad you said this, because these are always my thoughts when I read the "menopause" reason...IF that's what happens, it's rare, and/or the woman CHOOSES to solve the problem because her sex life is important to her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If she's still having sex with him 2-3 times a week, he doesn't really have a problem, and he's got no right to resent her time spent doing other things since she obviously spends way most of her time taking care of the family. I think his expectations are very unrealistic and he's just looking not for marriage partner type relationship but the excitement of young singles sex, when people don't really know you yet and haven't built up a realistic idea of you and are still starry eyed and eager instead of thinking about if you're doing your part and being exhausted.
> 
> Expecting her to be sexually way above average just because he likes sex more frequently is not fair. She sounds like she does way more than he does, too, and still makes time for him and has sex 2-3 times a week, but he's acting like a spoiled toddler because he can't have it every time he wants it and for her to act like someone she isn't when she's having it. He knows who he married.


@DudeInProgress didn't get through to you so I'll see if I can make it a little more clear. 

The fact that she is trying to appease him a couple times a week does not mean that it is satisfactory or even healthy for either of them. In fact it may be causing more harm and resentment for both of them than it is doing any good. 

I'll offer my own perspective as an example. I am pretty sure that my wife would consent to have some kind of sex with me a couple times a week for awhile if I was nice about it but made it clear that I would split up the family and sell the house and divorce her if she didn't. 

So in other words, I could extract "Duty Sex" out of her for awhile if she would prefer doing that 'duty' vs selling the house and dividing up the assets and sharing custody of our minor teenager. 

But it would truly be a 'duty' and another distasteful chore that comes with maintaining a household like cleaning the toilet. 

It would not be satisfactory or bonding or connecting for either one of us. It would cause both of us to develop resentment and disdain towards each other. 

In time one of us (probably her) would wake up one day, say "enough!" and pull the plug. 

You may find this hard to grasp but some men are not mindless, heartless, sex fiends that only care about getting their junk drained. Some of us do have the emotional intelligence to know when someone is not enjoying themselves and are just doing something out of a sense of obligation and appeasement to keep the peace and keep the family under one roof and to keep out of court.

At the moment she is complying and trying to appease him. He is catching on that it is just appeasement and compliance and not out of genuine desire. 

He is also realising this can't go on forever for either one of their sakes. He is clearly having dismay and possibly resentment over it and she is likely having dismay and resentment as well. 

There is trouble here and the fact that they are physically having sex a couple times a week is not necessarily a sign of an intact sex life or marital harmony. 

He may be a little slow to catch on that there is a problem, but at least he is catching on. Some of these couples can sleepwalk through this issue for years and keep having perfunctory sex on Tues and Sat nights right up until she schedules the moving truck and moves out and files for divorce and he is standing there scratching his head wondering what just happened. 

Sex x 2/week is not necessarily a barometer of a healthy relationship or satisfying sex life.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

CuriousC said:


> She of course can do what she wants as she’s an adult ! I do resent that I’m never in her plans and how she has lots of energy for all nighters with her friends and none for me


Whew!!! I thought I was suddenly in Beijing for a moment but it was just this thread!

Carry on....


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

Does your wife know your love language? Maybe sex is your love language! I recently figured it out for myself and for my husband to understand as well. That's why if we don't have sex, it affects me much more than it affects him. It's linked to how I express and recieve love. So maybe you feel the disconnect because sex and love is linked for you. If that's the case, really connect emotionally during sex. During sex, say a lot of "I love you"s, genuinely praise and compliment her, connect with love. And the more times you do that and also explain afterwards how much you felt her love, it might make her feel like sex isn't a chore, but a way to strengthen your relationship. And when it's not sexy time, refer back to how it meant so much to you last time and how you appreciate her time. So she realize it isn't JUST sex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> My wife was in her early 40s when she became perimenopausal.


Mine 44


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CuriousC said:


> Thanks for the comment- it’s reassuring to hear.


I would be very suspect of your wifes sctivities and her disregard for you. Overnights and week long Vegas trips with the girls. You need to do some digging. 

My wife is 51 and we are intimate at least every other night, usually more often. She has had hysterectomy and on HRT.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> @DudeInProgress didn't get through to you so I'll see if I can make it a little more clear.
> 
> The fact that she is trying to appease him a couple times a week does not mean that it is satisfactory or even healthy for either of them. In fact it may be causing more harm and resentment for both of them than it is doing any good.
> 
> ...


Thank you


Divinely Favored said:


> I would be very suspect of your wifes sctivities and her disregard for you. Overnights and week long Vegas trips with the girls. You need to do some digging.
> 
> My wife is 51 and we are intimate at least every other night, usually more often. She has had hysterectomy and on HRT.


being honest I trust her! Disappointed I’m not seen to be the one at times who can give her the fun she is seeking


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CuriousC said:


> Thank you
> 
> being honest I trust her! Disappointed I’m not seen to be the one at times who can give her the fun she is seeking


There is trust, but then there is also head-in-the-sand. 

I'm not saying she is cheating, but there are some red flags here that you would irresponsible to not consider and not look into. Not wanting to do things with you but taking off for week or more with the girls to party in other countries is a major red flag and something worth looking into.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

K3itty said:


> Does your wife know your love language? Maybe sex is your love language! I recently figured it out for myself and for my husband to understand as well. That's why if we don't have sex, it affects me much more than it affects him. It's linked to how I express and recieve love. So maybe you feel the disconnect because sex and love is linked for you. If that's the case, really connect emotionally during sex. During sex, say a lot of "I love you"s, genuinely praise and compliment her, connect with love. And the more times you do that and also explain afterwards how much you felt her love, it might make her feel like sex isn't a chore, but a way to strengthen your relationship. And when it's not sexy time, refer back to how it meant so much to you last time and how you appreciate her time. So she realize it isn't JUST sex.


Hey - we tried this or else I tried it but she didn’t buy into it. She downloaded the book on kindle, got the summary , but we hardly discussed our characteristics! 
Words of affirmation closely followed by physical touch,quality and time were my highest characteristics.


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

CuriousC said:


> Hey - we tried this or else I tried it but she didn’t buy into it. She downloaded the book on kindle, got the summary , but we hardly discussed our characteristics!
> Words of affirmation closely followed by physical touch,quality and time were my highest characteristics.


Yup. Physical touch includes sex. Absolutely it is your love language. Or else you might be able to shrug off the disconnect during sex. Don't say loving things as much unrelated to sex so there's a differentiation. If you always say "I love you" then it might not be so clear it's more related to when you have sex. Reserve it more around sexy time. Make it more distinguishable and consistent.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CuriousC said:


> Hey - we tried this or else I tried it but she didn’t buy into it. She downloaded the book on kindle, got the summary , but we hardly discussed our characteristics!
> Words of affirmation closely followed by physical touch,quality and time were my highest characteristics.


It seems to me that she just doesn't care to address any of what is bothering you. All of your posts show you are frustrated and seems like that doesn't bother her at all. Trips with her GFs is what floats her boat, to lost wages of all places "what happens there stays there". TBH, in your shoes I would tell her was going to accompany them on their next trip there, watch for panic response lol.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she is giving you much to work with. You can't male her care.

Every time I read threads like this, I go give my wife a passionate kiss and thank her for her love.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> There is trust, but then there is also head-in-the-sand.
> 
> I'm not saying she is cheating, but there are some red flags here that you would irresponsible to not consider and not look into. Not wanting to do things with you but taking off for week or more with the girls to party in other countries is a major red flag and something worth looking into.


So she went over with another married lady to visit their single friend. I don’t believe she’d jeopardise her family.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> It seems to me that she just doesn't care to address any of what is bothering you. All of your posts show you are frustrated and seems like that doesn't bother her at all. Trips with her GFs is what floats her boat, to lost wages of all places "what happens there stays there". TBH, in your shoes I would tell her was going to accompany them on their next trip there, watch for panic response lol.
> 
> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like she is giving you much to work with. You can't male her care.
> 
> Every time I read threads like this, I go give my wife a passionate kiss and thank her for her love.


We’re married but our lives are giving over to the kids. When she wants fun she goes to her friends. It hurts to be honest. I know I’m a good husband to my kids. Maybe she doesn’t feel I’m good to her but she doesn’t let me in(no pun intended!!). She’s not romantic, won’t hold hands when we’re out. If I’m not staying out drinking I’m deemed boring. She’ll stay out and get a taxi home! She never discusses our sex life. Never wears anything nice to bed. Never suggestive or flirty! 
I know I’ve to speak to her very soon. She realises I’m a little off - not nasty but no hugging in bed etc .


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

CuriousC said:


> *We’re married but our lives are giving over to the kids.* *When she wants fun she goes to her friends.* It hurts to be honest. I know I’m a good husband to my kids. Maybe she doesn’t feel I’m good to her but she doesn’t let me in(no pun intended!!). She’s not romantic, won’t hold hands when we’re out. If I’m not staying out drinking I’m deemed boring. She’ll stay out and get a taxi home! She never discusses our sex life. Never wears anything nice to bed. Never suggestive or flirty!
> I know I’ve to speak to her very soon. She realises I’m a little off - not nasty but no hugging in bed etc .


A married couple should love one another first like the center of a circle. We had kids, all grown now. Someone told me before we married that best thing we could do for any kids we would have was to love their mother and for her to love me. And that is how we lived our lives. We were together before the kids arrived ( and we are together now after they left the nest ). 

Friends ought to be a distant second to family. Just my opinion.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think your expectations are unrealistic and that’s coming from a women in her 30s with no kids that loves sex. 

Be happy with the sex your getting, stop finding ways that it could not been better. And as a women who statically doesn’t have orgasms everytime… it’s offensive for you to be nitpicking all the negative things. Women have been having sex and having to be done without being satisfied and being ok with that for the start of man.

You are having orgasms everytime. Your getting your fix. Sometimes a quickie is all us women can give at the end of a long day taking care of everyone.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> A married couple should love one another first like the center of a circle. We had kids, all grown now. Someone told me before we married that best thing we could do for any kids we would have was to love their mother and for her to love me. And that is how we lived our lives. We were together before the kids arrived ( and we are together now after they left the nest ).
> 
> Friends ought to be a distant second to family. Just my opinion.


Yes I agree. I can tell you though at present we’re just 2 people doing chores. It’s been this way for probably 6 years or so now. We’ve had “the chat” many times. It’s always me who wants the chat. She says “I’m never happy !!”
But she knows I want more time for sex life but it won’t happen


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@CuriousC do you think you'd be happier on your own than in your current relationship? Have you given any thoughts to how you would feel if you were living alone? I'm not talking about grass is greener ideas (hint : it's not), just in general.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I think your expectations are unrealistic and that’s coming from a women in her 30s with no kids that loves sex.
> 
> Be happy with the sex your getting, stop finding ways that it could not been better. And as a women who statically doesn’t have orgasms everytime… it’s offensive for you to be nitpicking all the negative things. Women have been having sex and having to be done without being satisfied and being ok with that for the start of man.
> 
> You are having orgasms everytime. Your getting your fix. Sometimes a quickie is all us women can give at the end of a long day taking care of everyone.


I


Lila said:


> @CuriousC do you think you'd be happier on your own than in your current relationship? Have you given any thoughts to how you would feel if you were living alone? I'm not talking about grass is greener ideas (hint : it's not), just in general.





Girl_power said:


> I think your expectations are unrealistic and that’s coming from a women in her 30s with no kids that loves sex.
> 
> Be happy with the sex your getting, stop finding ways that it could not been better. And as a women who statically doesn’t have orgasms everytime… it’s offensive for you to be nitpicking all the negative things. Women have been having sex and having to be done without being satisfied and being ok with that for the start of man.
> 
> You are having orgasms everytime. Your getting your fix. Sometimes a quickie is all us women can give at the end of a long day taking care of everyone.


fair enough!
I take your point but I’m saying that this is the way it always is. There’s never time given for it!
I’m not happy though. It’s not just the sex . I don’t feel I have a companion sometimes. At times it’s as if I’m invisible. I do my share. I go the extra mile with breakfast in bed every now and then, making smoothies for her etc. It’s not to get something as I do care for her. I’ve given her 20 years of my life. I don’t want the romance to die. I want fun/enthusiasm/excitement. Is that not a fair ask.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Lila said:


> @CuriousC do you think you'd be happier on your own than in your current relationship? Have you given any thoughts to how you would feel if you were living alone? I'm not talking about grass is greener ideas (hint : it's not), just in general.


I have thought that at times. I have a family though. I made vows. Obviously I’d like to keep things working. But I’m close to blowing up. I’m trying to not be irrational.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

All I am going to say OP is be careful. If I were your wife and I was pushed hard enough and made to feel like I am not good enough and can’t make her husband happy I would become so resentful, feel so unappreciated and I would leave to find someone who appreciated me and my efforts. 

Be careful. 

Be happy with what you have because it doesn’t sound too bad.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CuriousC said:


> I
> 
> 
> fair enough!
> ...



You can ask but she doesn't have to give it. She is who she is. You are who you are. Instead of trying to change her to your way if thinking, you need to focus on how you can make yourself happy. 

That's why I ask how you would feel being single and living on your own. You have got to think about these things because if the answer is that you'd be miserable alone, then you need to figure out how to accept the situation as is. 

You cannot change another human being. They have to want to change on their own. All you can do is choose to stay or leave.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CuriousC said:


> I have thought that at times. I have a family though. I made vows. Obviously I’d like to keep things working. But I’m close to blowing up. I’m trying to not be irrational.


Does she do anything that makes you happy? Please share what she does that you like and appreciate?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CuriousC said:


> I have thought that at times. I have a family though. I made vows. Obviously I’d like to keep things working. But I’m close to blowing up. I’m trying to not be irrational.


Then you need to see a therapist to work on your resentment. 

If it's about the vows and keeping the family intact, then find ways to make yourself happy that don't involve your wife. Stop bringing the sex up with your wife. It's only making you and her resentful.

ETA:. Why do you think it's irrational?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It may be a fair ask to you but if she doesn’t think so then it’s a no go.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> Does she do anything that makes you happy? Please share what she does that you like and appreciate?


Some times she can be nice. Listens to me etc but more often than not she is tired and a bit cranky and withdrawn. Just wants the kids in bed to watch television. If she’s been drinking she’s much nicer and more relaxed. I do think she’s stressed but I can’t force her to take up some exercise etc. She’d rather slob on the couch. In our early days it was much better as most likely she wasn’t as tired.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Lila said:


> You can ask but she doesn't have to give it. She is who she is. You are who you are. Instead of trying to change her to your way if thinking, you need to focus on how you can make yourself happy.
> 
> That's why I ask how you would feel being single and living on your own. You have got to think about these things because if the answer is that you'd be miserable alone, then you need to figure out how to accept the situation as is.
> 
> You cannot change another human being. They have to want to change on their own. All you can do is choose to stay or leave.


I know I’d miss her even though we have our troubles. We are on the same page when it comes to a lot of things. Just not the thing that’s probably of highest importance to me.
Sure - we need to compromise so we both get what we need from the relationship but there’s been many attempts and all failed. I haven’t changed but she has. She steers away from romance and spending us time yet I crave it


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Lila said:


> Then you need to see a therapist to work on your resentment.
> 
> If it's about the vows and keeping the family intact, then find ways to make yourself happy that don't involve your wife. Stop bringing the sex up with your wife. It's only making you and her resentful.
> 
> ETA:. Why do you think it's irrational?


I don’t want to be unreasonable if we chat. No Freudian slips for example. 
see I don’t think a lot of people get me here- all I’m looking for is quality us time a couple of times a week where we forget the kids/life for a minute and let go. I’ll sort my higher sex drive out myself after that. But she won’t give me any time for massage/foreplay etc It’s all rush and late at night before she comes to bed. I think this part is not reasonable on her side. She knows who she married.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> I don’t want to be unreasonable if we chat. No Freudian slips for example.
> see I don’t think a lot of people get me here- all I’m looking for is quality us time a couple of times a week where we forget the kids/life for a minute and let go. I’ll sort my higher sex drive out myself after that. But she won’t give me any time for massage/foreplay etc It’s all rush and late at night before she comes to bed. I think this part is not reasonable on her side. She knows who she married.


As I mentioned earlier 3-4 times a year maybe we do have that time and it’s brilliant but then it doesn’t happen again for months. I just don’t get that


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CuriousC said:


> I know I’d miss her even though we have our troubles. We are on the same page when it comes to a lot of things. Just not the thing that’s probably of highest importance to me.
> Sure - we need to compromise so we both get what we need from the relationship but there’s been many attempts and all failed. I haven’t changed but she has. She steers away from romance and spending us time yet I crave it


Then you need to decide if sex is more important to you than keeping the relationship with your wife. It's not a matter of right or wrong answer but if you decide to stay because her other qualities outweigh the lackluster sex, then you need to drop it. Like I said, you need to find a way to make yourself happy. Find which path brings you happiness, and no changing her is not a path.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CuriousC said:


> I don’t want to be unreasonable if we chat. No Freudian slips for example.
> see I don’t think a lot of people get me here- all I’m looking for is quality us time a couple of times a week where we forget the kids/life for a minute and let go. I’ll sort my higher sex drive out myself after that. But she won’t give me any time for massage/foreplay etc It’s all rush and late at night before she comes to bed. I think this part is not reasonable on her side. She knows who she married.


Because she is tired. You have to be understanding too.


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

When I was with my ex husband we would send each other texts throughout the day (sexual ones, and a sexy photo) while he was working. Would send a sexy photo saying can't wait for you to get home. We would both be building up throughout the day and would have sex as soon as he got home. Try texting your wife how beautiful she is, how you want to kiss her, hold her, make love, tell her you're thinking of her etc. For this to work she has to text back she wants the same. Just simple flirty texts to start, then test the waters by sending more sexual ones. I'd text my husband I was wearing no knickers when I knew he was in a meeting and send photo of my boobs lol. Another time he was watching TV and I text guess what's waiting in bed for you, and he'd be in bedroom in seconds haha. You have to keep the excitement going or the sex will die off. I went from sex a few times every day, to once a day, to 3 times a week, to once a month, then once in 6 months to no sex for 6 years and going through divorce now. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

3 kids and a full time job with normal adult responsibilities is exhausting. I don’t think your understand this. I’m sorry that your not tired and you don’t get it, but your wife is. 

It’s exhausting when everyone wants something from you. Your boss, your kids, and then your husband. Maybe she just needs more alone time. 

The fact that you expect her, a mother of 3 with a full time job to put on lingerie and entertain you is baffling to me. Are men that out of touch with reality?


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> When I was with my ex husband we would send each other texts throughout the day (sexual ones, and a sexy photo) while he was working. Would send a sexy photo saying can't wait for you to get home. We would both be building up throughout the day and would have sex as soon as he got home. Try texting your wife how beautiful she is, how you want to kiss her, hold her, make love, tell her you're thinking of her etc. For this to work she has to text back she wants the same. Just simple flirty texts to start, then test the waters by sending more sexual ones. I'd text my husband I was wearing no knickers when I knew he was in a meeting and send photo of my boobs lol. Another time he was watching TV and I text guess what's waiting in bed for you, and he'd be in bedroom in seconds haha. You have to keep the excitement going or the sex will die off. I went from sex a few times every day, to once a day, to 3 times a week, to once a month, then once in 6 months to no sex for 6 years and going through divorce now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Sorry to hear it didn’t work out for you. Knowing her she would hate that and it would be my dream getting such responses


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> 3 kids and a full time job with normal adult responsibilities is exhausting. I don’t think your understand this. I’m sorry that your not tired and you don’t get it, but your wife is.
> 
> It’s exhausting when everyone wants something from you. Your boss, your kids, and then your husband. Maybe she just needs more alone time.
> 
> The fact that you expect her, a mother of 3 with a full time job to put on lingerie and entertain you is baffling to me. Are men that out of touch with reality?


Sure , we all can get tired. She can have all the alone time she wants. She chooses tv. So you expect me to sit there and be frustrated for the rest of my life. Both partners have to try meet in the middle. Is this not how it works for you. Isn’t this how marriage is supposed to work. I do all I can for her and family situation is good. But we are living a lie. We’re not happy. I’m the one writing here but I bet she’s not happy either. She is when she’s with friends or travelling abroad.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> 3 kids and a full time job with normal adult responsibilities is exhausting. I don’t think your understand this. I’m sorry that your not tired and you don’t get it, but your wife is.
> 
> It’s exhausting when everyone wants something from you. Your boss, your kids, and then your husband. Maybe she just needs more alone time.
> 
> The fact that you expect her, a mother of 3 with a full time job to put on lingerie and entertain you is baffling to me. Are men that out of touch with reality?


Read all of his posts in their entirety. There is a lot more to the story here. And lot more than just lingerie and wanting more sexy time. 

Keep in mind he also has 3 kids, a full time job and adult responsibilities. His boss, his kids and his wife all want things from him as well. 

She wants his financial support, his share of the household responsibilities and his share of child rearing responsibilities. Per his posts, he is providing those in good faith and sincerity. 

So let's not act like women have a monopoly on responsibility or labor or martyr them on the alter of adulting.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Read all of his posts in their entirety. There is a lot more to the story here. And lot more than just lingerie and wanting more sexy time.
> 
> Keep in mind he also has 3 kids, a full time job and adult responsibilities. His boss, his kids and his wife all want things from him as well.
> 
> ...


Thank you


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## CrAzYdOgLaDy (Mar 22, 2021)

CuriousC said:


> Sorry to hear it didn’t work out for you. Knowing her she would hate that and it would be my dream getting such responses


That's a shame. I adored my husband and sex was great until a few years into the marriage and emotional abuse started. When sex stops, lessens there is a problem. Your wife could be extremely tired with work and the kids etc, but you still need to try and keep the spark there otherwise you end up living like housemates. If the kids are in bed and she is watching TV try giving her a foot massage, shoulder, back massage and see if it leads to anything. What I loved was I would sit on the floor and my husband would brush my hair while kissing the back of my neck, that would send me wild lol. Try get that spark back because once it's gone it's gone. Maybe arrange childcare so your wife and yourself can spend some alone time together. Hope you figure things out. 

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CuriousC said:


> Sure , we all can get tired. She can have all the alone time she wants. She chooses tv. So you expect me to sit there and be frustrated for the rest of my life. Both partners have to try meet in the middle. Is this not how it works for you. Isn’t this how marriage is supposed to work. I do all I can for her and family situation is good. But we are living a lie. We’re not happy. I’m the one writing here but I bet she’s not happy either. She is when she’s with friends or travelling abroad.


At the end of the day everyone needs to find a way to relax and unwind, we can’t be going all the time. Many people choose tv to relax with at the end of a long day.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I think your wife is happy. I think her needs are met, and she is running on an empty tank. And she is married to someone whose needs aren’t met, and that is exhausting for someone who is running on empty. 

If you miss a connection with your wife, then connect with her. Be understanding of her. You can take a load off of her while making a connection too. I agree with the other poster that said to massage your wife while you watch tv. Do something relaxing for her.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I just want to add that it’s crazy to me that you mentioned diet and exercise as a way of her to get more energy so she can spend it on making you happy.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

CrAzYdOgLaDy said:


> That's a shame. I adored my husband and sex was great until a few years into the marriage and emotional abuse started. When sex stops, lessens there is a problem. Your wife could be extremely tired with work and the kids etc, but you still need to try and keep the spark there otherwise you end up living like housemates. If the kids are in bed and she is watching TV try giving her a foot massage, shoulder, back massage and see if it leads to anything. What I loved was I would sit on the floor and my husband would brush my hair while kissing the back of my neck, that would send me wild lol. Try get that spark back because once it's gone it's gone. Maybe arrange childcare so your wife and yourself can spend some alone time together. Hope you figure things out.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk


Thank you so much. Supposedly I’m a good masseuse according to her - sometimes it leads to something


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I think your wife is happy. I think her needs are met, and she is running on an empty tank. And she is married to someone whose needs aren’t met, and that is exhausting for someone who is running on empty.
> 
> If you miss a connection with your wife, then connect with her. Be understanding of her. You can take a load off of her while making a connection too. I agree with the other poster that said to massage your wife while you watch tv. Do something relaxing for her.


Oh I do


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I just want to add that it’s crazy to me that you mentioned diet and exercise as a way of her to get more energy so she can spend it on making you happy.


It’s not just that. She doesn’t have energy for kids either.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I think your expectations are unrealistic and that’s coming from a women in her 30s with no kids that loves sex.
> 
> Be happy with the sex your getting, stop finding ways that it could not been better. And as a women who statically doesn’t have orgasms everytime… it’s offensive for you to be nitpicking all the negative things. Women have been having sex and having to be done without being satisfied and being ok with that for the start of man.
> 
> You are having orgasms everytime. Your getting your fix. Sometimes a quickie is all us women can give at the end of a long day taking care of everyone.


Read my post #51 in response to Downbytheriver who stated something similar as you. 

There's more here than wanting lingerie and porn sex. 

The fact she puts out weekly does not mean everything is hunky dory. They are both showing signs of detaching and drifting apart. He strikes me as sincere and that he does want her to feel loved and appreciated and pleasured and connected to him. 

If you read his follow up posts you will quickly see that his concern is not that she isn't wearing lingerie or tearing it up like a 20 year old porn star but that she is detaching from him personally and while she is fine with him bringing home $$$ and doing his share of the household chores and child rearing, she doesn't have time or energy to connect with him on an interpersonal or fun level but rather saves that time and energy for her friends and drinking buddies and taking party trips to foriegn countries (while he manages the house kids I might add)

And what is "insulting" is your presumption that a man is a one-celled organism that should be perfectly happy and content if he has an orgasm on weekly basis and should not want for him and his wife and partner to have a more connected and in-tune relationship. 

Men may have higher testosterone levels and a more overt sex drive than women, but we are still human beings and still value emotional connection and interpersonal partnership. 

Your playa's and party boyz may be content with a place to park their junk for a night and to bust a nut. But a sincere, married man with a wife, a home and a family has higher standards and higher expectations for a married partnership.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> I just want to add that it’s crazy to me that you mentioned diet and exercise as a way of her to get more energy so she can spend it on making you happy.


This made me laugh as well but I'm not the OP. There are people who use exercise as a stress reducer. It helps them get their minds off of whatever is going on. For me it increases cortisol which makes my brain go into overdrive. I do it when I need to get motivated to get things done at work. Different strokes.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

CuriousC said:


> Thank you so much. Supposedly I’m a good masseuse according to her - sometimes it leads to something


Are you offering the massages without the expectation of sex? 

When you offer to spend time with her is it with the intention of getting sex from her? 

Do you offer to take her on a getaway trip to destress or is it with the intention of getting sex?

These are called covert contracts and could be the reason both you and her are unhappy. 
She may be avoiding you if the only times you reach out are to have sex. Does that make sense?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Read my post #51 in response to Downbytheriver who stated something similar as you.
> 
> There's more here than wanting lingerie and porn sex.
> 
> ...


They do take trips together. They are going on a holiday soon, unless he ruins it with his negative attitude. 

I see a tired women who tries to satisfies her husbands sexual needs, yes it may be low quality sex 3x a week because that is all she can give at that time. She does give great amazing sex 3-4x a year, probably when they are on vacation together. I see a women who still has her own life and her own friends that she enjoys, nothing wrong with that. She also goes on trips with her husband. 

I don’t understand specifically what more she can do that will make her husband happy.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Girl_power said:


> I just want to add that it’s crazy to me that you mentioned diet and exercise as a way of her to get more energy so she can spend it on making you happy.


Please go back and read his other posts. It's about so much more than sex. 

Diet and exercise are simply good medicine and something that we all need in our lives to make us more functional and resilient organisms. It's a benefit for everyone and it is not some kind of evil conspiracy or agenda. 

I want to be more energetic and have higher functional capacity for my friends, family and loved ones. I want everyone to be healthy and feeling good and being as functional and engaged in the world as possible. I want YOU to be as healthy and vigorous and vital as possible. 

Stop trying to make it sound like some kind of sinister plot or selfish agenda.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Girl_power said:


> All I am going to say OP is be careful. If I were your wife and I was pushed hard enough and made to feel like I am not good enough and can’t make her husband happy I would become so resentful, feel so unappreciated and I would leave to find someone who appreciated me and my efforts.
> 
> Be careful.
> 
> Be happy with what you have because it doesn’t sound too bad.


I'm really not getting that from his posts.

She doesn't give him quality time. She reserves that for others. 

Men actually need more, in general, than a couple of quickies a week, just to get off, with a lack of intimacy and having actual bonding time outside of that.

I'm not someone to use terms that make commodities of people but I do require more than this lady is giving in a mate and I will have it.

OP isn't me (I would have put the kabosh on this situation a long time ago) but he is needing more as well and it really isn't unreasonable.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Read my post #51 in response to Downbytheriver who stated something similar as you.
> 
> There's more here than wanting lingerie and porn sex.
> 
> ...


They are BOTH bringing home $$$, raising kids, and doing household chores. He has an issue with her not wanting to have sex the way he wants it but does he know what she needs from him to want to connect? It sounds like she wants to have fun and socialize without the expectation of sex. It's not something he can give her so she gets that need met by her friends. 



> And what is "insulting" is your presumption that a man is a one-celled organism that should be perfectly happy and content if he has an orgasm on weekly basis and should not want for him and his wife and partner to have a more connected and in-tune relationship.
> 
> Men may have higher testosterone levels and a more overt sex drive than women, but we are still human beings and still value emotional connection and interpersonal partnership.
> 
> Your playa's and party boyz may be content with a place to park their junk for a night and to bust a nut. But a sincere, married man with a wife, a home and a family has higher standards and higher expectations for a married partnership.


Many men (married or otherwise) do only need sex, food, and a happy, pretty/thin wife to be happy. The OP needs an emotional connection but if his wife was raised to believe that all a man needs is sex, food, and a happy, pretty/thin wife, then he's fighting an uphill battle.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Please go back and read his other posts. It's about so much more than sex.
> 
> Diet and exercise are simply good medicine and something that we all need in our lives to make us more functional and resilient organisms. It's a benefit for everyone and it is not some kind of evil conspiracy or agenda.
> 
> ...


While exercise and diet are great for maintaining health, it doesn't translate to women wanting sex. That's why I laughed when I read it.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I think your wife is happy. I think her needs are met, and she is running on an empty tank. And she is married to someone whose needs aren’t met, and that is exhausting for someone who is running on empty.
> 
> If you miss a connection with your wife, then connect with her. Be understanding of her. You can take a load off of her while making a connection too. I agree with the other poster that said to massage your wife while you watch tv. Do something relaxing for her.


This is such a load of garbage. Poor woman, woman right, man wrong, man must supplicate and serve woman. 

How about take the tribal hat off for a second and try and help the OP who has a serious issue with connection and in his marriage and his wife’s attraction and desire for him. 
This is a serious, legitimate issue and it goes way beyond just the frequency of sex. That’s what we’re trying to help him address here.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> While exercise and diet are great for maintaining health, it doesn't translate to women wanting sex. That's why I laughed when I read it.


Libido can rise and fall depending the general state of health and vitality at any given time. 

There are countless other factors that play into someone wanting to have sex such as attraction, state of the relationship, Mother in Law in the house etc etc etc 

But let's at least try to maintain some objectivity and reasonableness here. Yes, state of health and vitality does effect libido levels and the healthier and more robust someone is, the more likelier they will be to have an active libido.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> This is such a load of garbage. Poor woman, woman right, man wrong, man must supplicate and serve woman.
> 
> How about take the tribal hat off for a second and try and help the OP who has a serious issue with connection and in his marriage and his wife’s attraction and desire for him.
> This is a serious, legitimate issue and it goes way beyond just the frequency of sex. That’s what we’re trying to help him address here.


I understand and I am taking his issues seriously. 

A lot of women, no matter how much they love their partner and no matter how sexually attracted they are to them will never wear lingerie. 
Two… being tired is a libido killer. When I am tired, I want the sex to be a quickie. This is normal. 

This is about a man who wants a higher quality relationship with his wife. I get it. Join the club, everyone is unhappy about a aspect I’m their relationship. 

There is little he can do except try to connect with her outside the bedroom. Stop putting goals on his relationship like… let’s try to have sex 4x a week, let’s see if she will initiate, let’s see if she will give me a blow job. Stop putting these measurements on your spouse and just enjoy what you have. If you are really and truly that unhappy and you want to open Pandora’s box which can improve the relationship or ruin it… then have at it.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> Libido can rise and fall depending the general state of health and vitality at any given time.
> 
> There are countless other factors that play into someone wanting to have sex such as attraction, state of the relationship, Mother in Law in the house etc etc etc
> 
> But let's at least try to maintain some objectivity and reasonableness here. Yes, state of health and vitality does effect libido levels and the healthier and more robust someone is, the more likelier they will be to have an active libido.


I agree. But who says she isn’t healthy? She had a full time job and runs around with 3 kids. 

I do get what your saying and I agree that diet and exercise gives you overall energy. But, I don’t think this is the Answer for the OP. In fact, I think the mere suggestion to his wife will cause way more harm than good.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Libido can rise and fall depending the general state of health and vitality at any given time.
> 
> *There are countless other factors that play into someone wanting to have sex such as attraction, state of the relationship, Mother in Law in the house etc etc etc*
> 
> But let's at least try to maintain some objectivity and reasonableness here. Yes, state of health and vitality does effect libido levels and the healthier and more robust someone is, the more likelier they will be to have an active libido.


Speaking as a woman, the bold probably has a bigger effect on libido than state of health and vitality. Hormones, medications (birth control), and fatigue all play a bigger role. Maybe it's because I've met some really horny overweight women and some super fit practically asexual ones.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> If you are really and truly that unhappy and you want to open Pandora’s box which can improve the relationship or ruin it… then have at it.


This. 

If the OP has cleaned his side of the street and he's turned over every rock to meet his wife's needs, and she's still indifferent to his requests, then he has the choice to cheat, divorce, or live with it. There are pros and cons to all of them. What he can't do is change her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lila said:


> This.
> 
> If the OP has cleaned his side of the street and he's turned over every rock to meet his wife's needs, and she's still indifferent to his requests, then he has the choice to cheat, divorce, or live with it. There are pros and cons to all of them. What he can't do is change her.


You are correct here. 

But we need to get back to the basics of the boys and the girls here. 

A woman CAN'T be satisfied and completely placated and content. You can give a wife and mother a staff of 100 maids, groundskeepers, gardeners, butlers, personal assistants and nannies etc etc and she will still be overwhelmed and stressed out. She will run herself ragged into the ground managing and supervising the staff and dealing with all their problems. 

A man truly can not meet all of a woman's needs and have her be content, satisfied and stress free. 

By contrast, for a man to be good in a relationship, he needs to know that she respects him, appreciates him and has some basic emotional warmth and sexual desire for him. 

If a normal, decent guy (not a true narcissist or sociopath or playa etc) has those things, he will work his fingers to the bone and slay dragons and run into burning buildings and jump in front of bullets for his woman. 

And if a woman is decent human being and not a selfish twit, and she sees him working his fingers to the bone and running into burning buildings for her, she will grant him a little leeway even though he isn't completely satisfying her or completely eliminating all her stress and all her feelings of being overwhelmed. 

When it works, it is a symbiotic relationship and each are balanced in a yin and yan relationship. 

What is taking place here is the OP is not feeling that she respects, appreciates or desires him in her heart. Her body may be having intercourse with him - but she is treating him like a workhorse and throwing him a pu$$y bone every now and then to keep him in the yard and not running off. Her fun and her enjoyment and her good vibes and what not are going to other people. 

A man is a simple machine that only needs a few drops of oil and few drops of fuel to operate effectively. Those drops of oil and fuel are sincere respect, appreciation, warmth and sexual desire. If he has those, he runs fine. 

Without those, the machine breaks down quickly. 

He'll either turn inward and bury himself into work or hobbies or porn/masturbation; or he will turn outward towards affairs or packing his bags and leaving,,,, or he could become truly destructive and turn towards drugs, alcohol etc. Read enough of these forums and you'll even see guys getting clinically depressed or even suicidal. 

But just a few drops of oil is all that is needed to keep running smoothly. 

This thread is a cry for help. Guys are simple but they're not dumb and they're ignorant. He can see that her sincere respect, appreciation, warmth and desire for him are fading and disconnecting EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE TECHNICALLY HAVING INTERCOURSE. Despite what the 300lb blue and pink haired feminists have told you, men are not devoid of feelings or emotional intelligence. We know when someone is pulling away and detaching from us emotionally and sexually, even though they are still living in our house and during household chores and child-rearing with us. 

This is warning signs and red flags in this marriage. We can either be champions for our social and political agendas, or we can offer substantive support, advice and perspective.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Thanks for all the messages.
For me the resolution to this shouldn’t be as difficult as it sounds. My barometer is not sex 4x a week. It’s about her allocating some time for me. I don’t feel seen. She knows I do a good job in the house . Just like I know what she does too. It’s not all about this. They are things we have to do - work!! We both have good jobs that pay well and we’re both hard workers - again work!! Relaxation time - yes of course we watch tv. Yes I have massaged her often. Is it about sex- no! When are we supposed to connect as a loving couple? She’ll never ask are you coming for a walk. There’s only so many times that I can keep asking. I’m trying to make the connection. She’ll never compliment me about wearing something nice, or me being working out in the gym. I give her compliments and often. She does buy nice clothes and to me she’s attractive. All I’m looking for is to feel I’m a part of this and not just a worker bee who’s always there. Yes of course I’d love a more satisfying sex life but I know it’ll only come when she really sees me as her connection. I’ve tried to make this connection but it isn’t coming as easy as it did in the early years. The 3-4 times a year when she’s given me time - we’ve had great fun. I didn’t do anything different during these times so why does it not continue. It feels on these occasions that we’ve made a connection but the next day it goes a bit cold again. I don’t know it’s hard to figure out.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Thanks for all the messages.
> For me the resolution to this shouldn’t be as difficult as it sounds. My barometer is not sex 4x a week. It’s about her allocating some time for me. I don’t feel seen. She knows I do a good job in the house . Just like I know what she does too. It’s not all about this. They are things we have to do - work!! We both have good jobs that pay well and we’re both hard workers - again work!! Relaxation time - yes of course we watch tv. Yes I have massaged her often. Is it about sex- no! When are we supposed to connect as a loving couple? She’ll never ask are you coming for a walk. There’s only so many times that I can keep asking. I’m trying to make the connection. She’ll never compliment me about wearing something nice, or me being working out in the gym. I give her compliments and often. She does buy nice clothes and to me she’s attractive. All I’m looking for is to feel I’m a part of this and not just a worker bee who’s always there. Yes of course I’d love a more satisfying sex life but I know it’ll only come when she really sees me as her connection. I’ve tried to make this connection but it isn’t coming as easy as it did in the early years. The 3-4 times a year when she’s given me time - we’ve had great fun. I didn’t do anything different during these times so why does it not continue. It feels on these occasions that we’ve made a connection but the next day it goes a bit cold again. I don’t know it’s hard to figure out.


Seems like you may be try too hard and chasing too much.

What is the leadership dynamic in your marriage?


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Seems like you may be try too hard and chasing too much.
> 
> What is the leadership dynamic in your marriage?


Oh yep - most likely I’ve chased too much over a long period. This is the reason for my posts . I have to stop the chase as I’ve had enough.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Oh yep - most likely I’ve chased too much over a long period. This is the reason for my posts . I have to stop the chase as I’ve had enough.


So what is the leadership dynamic in your marriage?


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> So what is the leadership dynamic in your marriage?


I would say we’re both similar /leaders. We communicate with each other about decisions. It’s the affection/loving side that lacks


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> I would say we’re both similar /leaders. We communicate with each other about decisions. It’s the affection/loving side that lacks


There is no such thing as a 50-50 relationship, it doesn’t work that way. It’s always 51-49 or 55-45, 60-40, etc.
At the end of the day, someone is always the leader and someone always has the final say. And if you think you’re marriage is 50-50, it isn’t you.

I like the captain / first officer analogy. The captain is primary leader and is ultimately responsible for the ship/aircraft. The first officer is a trusted and valued partner who collaborates with and often advises the captain. They share the same mission and are both critical and respected leaders. The first officer makes many operational decisions. But there’s only one captain.

The VAST majority of women expect their husbands to be the leader in the relationship. I’ve never seen it work out well in reverse. And every time I’ve seen the reverse, it tends to end badly.

Women don’t want to be the captain, they want their husband to carry that responsibility. When wives end up in the captain’s chair (either because they thought they wanted it or because their husband wasn’t leading), they tend to lose respect for their husband and build resentment.

So with that said, what’s the leadership dynamic in your marriage?


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> There is no such thing as a 50-50 relationship, it doesn’t work that way. It’s always 51-49 or 55-45, 60-40, etc.
> At the end of the day, someone is always the leader and someone always has the final say. And if you think you’re marriage is 50-50, it isn’t you.
> 
> I like the captain / first officer analogy. The captain is primary leader and is ultimately responsible for the ship/aircraft. The first officer is a trusted and valued partner who collaborates with and often advises the captain. They share the same mission and are both critical and respected leaders. The first officer makes many operational decisions. But there’s only one captain.
> ...


Ok I get you. I’d say it might tip I my side slightly. But we’re talking 51-49 I’d say


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## K3itty (May 12, 2021)

I mentioned love languages before. Do you know her love language? I think you guys have a disconnect/misinterpretation there. Yours is words, touch right? Obviously touch isn't one of hers.

I feel like this whole thread is the story of my life. I am touch and words. My husband is service? He does things around the house, chores, very dutiful. But can probably go days and months without "intimacy" because he is tired from doing all these things. Yet he would feel totally connected because he HAS been expressing love thru his service. If I didn't understand his intent, I'd think he doesn't love me.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Ok, so I talked with my wife this morning about our current situation.
I told her pretty much that physical/emotional/loving side of the relationship can’t go on in its current form. I recognised that she most likely isn’t happy too.
She agreed she wasn’t happy either.
She said she felt no connection with me at times. No connection no love. I told her similar. So on this note we both need to work on being better friends to each other.

On the physical side, she told me she thinks she’s going through perimenopause and has been for a while. She told me she’d love to be more carefree and go at it but is not that fearless at present with her body of which I understand.
I told her there are other things we can do that won’t hurt her but allows for physical connection(massage etc) but that her coming to bed late all the time doesn’t make me feel wanted. Obviously foot rubs etc don’t require the bedroom but it’d be nice sometimes for us to be physically close 

So bottom line is we’ve got to do a lot of work on reviving the connection on both sides. We both know that things have to change. Sexual side may return in some time but no reason physical side can’t continue.
Look, I don’t know if this will work for us but I’ll try. We only had a 20 min chat. It’s probably enough for now. Maybe counselling might help. Let’s see ! Thanks again for all your input - very much appreciated 



CuriousC said:


> Ok I get you. I’d say it might tip I my side slightly. But we’re talking 51-49 I’d say


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You might want to get into counseling to have someone help you create a plan. What you and she have done is engage in wishful thinking. It needs to be firmed up so that you and she will know if you're making progress or fooling yourselves. Good luck.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> Ok, so I talked with my wife this morning about our current situation.
> I told her pretty much that physical/emotional/loving side of the relationship can’t go on in its current form. I recognised that she most likely isn’t happy too.
> She agreed she wasn’t happy either.
> She said she felt no connection with me at times. No connection no love. I told her similar. So on this note we both need to work on being better friends to each other.
> ...


I think the next step is to agree some concrete actions and stick to them. Don't try and run before you walk.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This thread is giving me terrible flashbacks. 
This is like stepping into the WayBack Machine and being there all over again. 

You are me roughly half a dozen years ago.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> So are you all saying it's okay to have no sex life with your wife after age 40ish _because perimenopause?_


I've just seen this... sorry, I spent the last 2 days wondering about TAM and people's addiction to cheating threads... 

I'm not saying that. What I was trying to say is that, if his wife is perimenopausal/menopausal, she could have lost her libido... it happens.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> You are correct here.
> 
> But we need to get back to the basics of the boys and the girls here.
> 
> ...


Seriously @oldshirt? I'm not sure where you're getting at with the "political agendas" and "blue and purple haired feminists". I'm neither a champion for social or political agendas but you sure do seem to have an agenda trying to teach me about "the basics of the boys and the girls". Trust me my friend, I know all there is to know about boys and girls and at the end of the day, I can only tell you that even the kindest, most responsible man can be a selfish a## and the sweetest, most genuine woman can be a heartless *****. No one is perfect. 

My only agenda is to advise people to figure out if there is anything they are doing (relationship turnoffs) that might be causing issues with their partner. If the answer is no, then the only decision left is "do the pros outweigh the cons". If they do, then the onus is on the person with the issues to figure out how to live with the choice they make. That's all there is to it. 

Advising the OP to keep pestering her (because that's exactly what she feels he's doing) about how he finds her lacking (whether justified or not) is only going to build resentment in one or both of them. She will continue to pull further away.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CuriousC said:


> On the physical side, she told me she thinks she’s going through perimenopause and has been for a while.


I wasn't that wrong, then... still, as others have said here, that shouldn't stop her having sex with you...


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Sfort said:


> You might want to get into counseling to have someone help you create a plan. What you and she have done is engage in wishful thinking. It needs to be firmed up so that you and she will know if you're making progress or fooling yourselves. Good luck.


Yes we are going to talk a little more this evening about counselling. You’re right there has to be action


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CuriousC said:


> Look, I don’t know if this will work for us but I’ll try. We only had a 20 min chat. It’s probably enough for now. Maybe counselling might help. Let’s see ! Thanks again for all your input - very much appreciated


Mmmm.... been there. Sounds like she lost her attraction to you for whatever reason. You might never know. I would say to try counselling too. She might open up.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> This thread is giving me terrible flashbacks.
> This is like stepping into the WayBack Machine and being there all over again.
> 
> You are me roughly half a dozen years ago.


I’m not sure of your outcome but I’m hoping mine means we can be happy again


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I wasn't that wrong, then... still, as others have said here, that shouldn't stop her having sex with you...


Sure! I think she wants more action too or at least that’s what she told me.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Mmmm.... been there. Sounds like she lost her attraction to you for whatever reason. You might never know. I would say to try counselling too. She might open up.


Well she said this morning she does want more fun /action but just doesn’t trust her body plus when our connection is not working then other things won’t happen


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CuriousC said:


> plus when our connection is not working then other things won’t happen


I understand that... hopefully, together, you can find it again. It doesn't sound like a lost cause to me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I wasn't that wrong, then... still, as others have said here, that shouldn't stop her having sex with you...



Menopause effects different people differently. 

While it’s true that menopause doesn’t necessarily stop people from having sex in and of itself, It can greatly alter their desire for it and how they respond to it and how much they enjoy it when they have it. 

For some women it actually INCREASES their desire and lowers their inhibitions (no more pregnancy concerns etc) 

Where as some others can almost shut down their libido and sexdrive altogether. 

In my case, my wife would have sex with me if I asked nicely and as long as there wasn’t anything more important to her going on like watching one of her tv shows where people sing in front of judges or seeing what other people are eating on Facebook,, y’know critical stuff like that.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I wasn't that wrong, then... still, as others have said here, that shouldn't stop her having sex with you...


Or just quality time.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Menopause effects different people differently.
> 
> While it’s true that menopause doesn’t necessarily stop people from having sex in and of itself, It can greatly alter their desire for it and how they respond to it and how much they enjoy it when they have it.
> 
> ...


Menopausal lack of libido doesn't stop a woman from caring about and loving her husband, though, or lack of other kinds of intimacy and connections.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CuriousC said:


> Yes we are going to talk a little more this evening about counselling. You’re right there has to be action


There has to be action but keep in mind that everything is a process and ongoing. It’s management and coping mechanisms and not a cure. 

We go through a number of life changes and stages as we go through our lifespan. This is one of those changes (women of my mother’s generation couldn’t say the word ‘menopause ‘ in polite company (gasp!) and they literally called it, “The Change.”) 

Everybody is different and it effects people differently. I cannot say that I have handled it all that well or came out the other side all rainbows and unicorns by any means. 

But I will say that my wife is a completely different person today than who and what she was before. She herself says she is a different person and often misses her old self and wishes she could be like who she was. 

And to be honest, i probably am a much different person as well, although I usually feel like I am still me. 

Our previous relationship and previous dynamics between us are gone. In many ways Oldshirt 2.0 and Mrs Old 2.0 have had to start anew and start having first dates and first walks in the park discussing our lives and futures and where we want to go and where we want to be as a couple. 

Some aspects of our relationship are functional. Some are actually fairly good. 

And some are not so much :-(

But the keys points here is this is a life change-of-state. 

It CAN be navigated and worked through to a mutually acceptable state (for some people). 

But in many ways it is starting anew and takes work through an ongoing and dynamic process.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> Menopausal lack of libido doesn't stop a woman from caring about and loving her husband, though, or lack of other kinds of intimacy and connections.


This is true. 

It’s a process and something that has to be worked through to find that which is mutually agreeable and acceptable for each.

Some couples are able to accomplish this. And some are not.


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

I think slightly unreasonable. I think reasonable would be 4 times a week, at most 5. 
Honestly, with 3 kids, and I assume she works from the sound of it, and I would imagine household chores, she's probably tired. I think that's what it is.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Ok I get you. I’d say it might tip I my side slightly. But we’re talking 51-49 I’d say


If you’re not sure, it doesn’t tip in your direction. I wouldn’t gloss over this, as it is significant.

Women do not respect men that they see as weaker or less dominant than them or that aren’t providing clear leadership in the relationship. And if a woman doesn’t respect you, she will not be attracted to you and she won’t have any desire for you.


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Menopausal lack of libido doesn't stop a woman from caring about and loving her husband, though, or lack of other kinds of intimacy and connections.


But if reports are to be believed, the hormonal changes can in some cases cause significant changes in emotional control and behaviour towards romantic partners. There seems to be plenty of reports of women feeling angry and distanced from their spouses as a result of the menopause. Not saying that this may not just be an amplification of pre-existing problems, but it is broader than just sexual desire according to the information that is out there.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

AGoodFlogging said:


> But if reports are to be believed, the hormonal changes can in some cases cause significant changes in emotional control and behaviour towards romantic partners. There seems to be plenty of reports of women feeling angry and distanced from their spouses as a result of the menopause. Not saying that this may not just be an amplification of pre-existing problems, but it is broader than just sexual desire according to the information that is out there.


Did you watch Davina McCall's program the other day? A real eye-opener...









Davina McCall: Sex, Myths and the Menopause


Davina tells her menopause story, busting midlife taboos from sex to hormone treatment



www.channel4.com


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Ok, so I talked with my wife this morning about our current situation.
> 
> On the physical side, she told me she thinks she’s going through perimenopause and has been for a while. She told me she’d love to be more carefree and go at it but is not that fearless at present with her body of which I understand.


Do not take this at face value.
She may very well be premenopausal, or maybe it’s another convenient excuse / justification. And given the track record, I wouldn’t put any confidence in that unless/until validated by a doctor.

As far as your conversation in general, it sounds like a positive step. Just remember, words mean very little, only actions matter.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DudeInProgress said:


> I wouldn’t put any confidence in that unless/until validated by a doctor.


Are you seriously saying that the OP should ask his wife to go to the doctor to be tested and then to show him the proof?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

[QUOTE


In Absentia said:


> Are you seriously saying that the OP should ask his wife to go to the doctor to be tested and then to show him the proof?


Doctor yes. 

My wife has seen several throughout the process. 

Now did I stand guard at the door and make her wear an armband and make her show me her papers before she could enter the house? 

No, but as I said above, this is a process that can play out over years and it is a significant physiological change that takes place, so yes, seeking medical evaluation and possible treatments is an important part of the landscape.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Doctor yes.


Husband: I think you are menopausal.
Wife: Maybe. But I'm not 100% sure.
Husband: Why don't you go to the doctor to know for sure?
Wife: Why do I need to do that?
Husband: So we are 100% sure.
Wife: Why do we need to be 100% sure?
Husband: So we can fix your lack of libido and we can have more sex.
Wife: You only care about sex.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You guys can go ahead and justify your wife's _general coldness and disinterest_ in a warm, connected relationship with you because "menopause" all you want, but I want to state again for the record, there are a **** ton of older women, millions of them, out there in the world who are WARM, SWEET, NICE, and very very emotionally and lovingly connected to their husbands. Up through their 80s.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Husband: I think you are menopausal.
> Wife: Maybe. But I'm not 100% sure.
> Husband: Why don't you go to the doctor to know for sure?
> Wife: Why do I need to do that?
> ...


It’s called leadership and diplomacy, t’s really not that hard. 

If she herself is acknowledging that she thinks she may be premenopausal and it’s affecting their marriage, then yes the expectation is to start dealing with it medically.
Otherwise it comes off the table as an excuse


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Husband: I think you are menopausal.
> Wife: Maybe. But I'm not 100% sure.
> Husband: Why don't you go to the doctor to know for sure?
> Wife: Why do I need to do that?
> ...


some women go through hell with menopause. There’s lots of literature out there. Imagine talking to such a woman like this, as if she’s a car that needs to be checked out so you can ride it again. No care, consideration for what she may be going through Mentally, emotionally and physically. No wonder women get turned off by such conversations. At a time of their lives when they need love and understanding they get this. Yes this is horribly selfish


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

There are so many men with ED also who won’t visit doctors to check their testosterone. if sex is off the table, what should a wife do?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aine said:


> some women go through hell with menopause. There’s lots of literature out there. Imagine talking to such a woman like this, as if she’s a car that needs to be checked out so you can ride it again. No care, consideration for what she may be going through Mentally, emotionally and physically. No wonder women get turned off by such conversations. At a time of their lives when they need love and understanding they get this. Yes this is horribly selfish


Thanks for the support. Some men have no idea what women go through during the menopause.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

aine said:


> There are so many men with ED also who won’t visit doctors to check their testosterone. if sex is off the table, what should a wife do?


Same thing.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Husband: I think you are menopausal.
> Wife: Maybe. But I'm not 100% sure.
> Husband: Why don't you go to the doctor to know for sure?
> Wife: Why do I need to do that?
> ...





aine said:


> some women go through hell with menopause. There’s lots of literature out there. Imagine talking to such a woman like this, as if she’s a car that needs to be checked out so you can ride it again. No care, consideration for what she may be going through Mentally, emotionally and physically. No wonder women get turned off by such conversations. At a time of their lives when they need love and understanding they get this. Yes this is horribly selfish


No one is actually advocating that he take the autistic approach noted above. It can be handled lovingly and diplomatically and supportively, but it needs to be handled.

Plus with the track record in this case, it could be just another excuse/justification for lack of intimacy


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> There has to be action but keep in mind that everything is a process and ongoing. It’s management and coping mechanisms and not a cure.
> 
> We go through a number of life changes and stages as we go through our lifespan. This is one of those changes (women of my mother’s generation couldn’t say the word ‘menopause ‘ in polite company (gasp!) and they literally called it, “The Change.”)
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Did you watch Davina McCall's program the other day? A real eye-opener...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually watched this with my wife !!!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

GC1234 said:


> I think slightly unreasonable. I think reasonable would be 4 times a week, at most 5.
> Honestly, with 3 kids, and I assume she works from the sound of it, and I would imagine household chores, she's probably tired. I think that's what it is.


I'm not sure how being tired gets as much credit for avoiding sex as it does. Some of the best sex my spouse and I ever had was after we drove twelve hours, pulling a trailer, in the driving rain. We were exhausted. When we got into the hotel room at 2am, fireworks.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

I think I’m general couples need to keep communicating- whether it be ED, pre menopause etc. Let’s face we’ll all face either most likely so empathy and compassion is needed.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Husband: I think you are menopausal.
> Wife: Maybe. But I'm not 100% sure.
> Husband: Why don't you go to the doctor to know for sure?
> Wife: Why do I need to do that?
> ...


(Reply in quoted text above.)


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Husband: I think you are menopausal.
> Wife: Maybe. But I'm not 100% sure.
> Husband: Why don't you go to the doctor to know for sure?
> Wife: Why do I need to do that?
> ...


Ha ha that’s cute. 

In our case, my wife was so miserable with all the symptoms and associated issues that she was seeing doctors long before I ever came into the conversation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

My point is: if your wife is not forthcoming regarding sex (for whatever reason), asking her to go to the doctor to check if it's the menopause, believe me, she won't take it kindly. Again, people tend to deal with these issues in a normal way, but the people withholding sex or having problem with sex have some kind of serious problem and dealing with it in a normal, often not very diplomatic way, will backfire. So, approach carefully.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sfort said:


> I'm not sure how being tired gets as much credit for avoiding sex as it does. Some of the best sex my spouse and I ever had was after we drove twelve hours, pulling a trailer, in the driving rain. We were exhausted. When we got into the hotel room at 2am, fireworks.


In my case it’s because having sex with my wife makes her less tired and she has insomnia. I fall asleep in 5 minutes or less typically. Sometimes she will take 2-3 hours. If she is actually tired and falling asleep then any activity will reboot her and she’s back on her long clock. This (rightfully) pisses her off so if she looks sleepy or says she is tired I don’t initiate.

For me it’s the opposite I pass out right after.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> In my case it’s because having sex with my wife makes her less tired and she has insomnia. I fall asleep in 5 minutes or less typically. Sometimes she will take 2-3 hours. If she is actually tired and falling asleep then any activity will reboot her and she’s back on her long clock. This (rightfully) pisses her off so if she looks sleepy or says she is tired I don’t initiate.
> 
> For me it’s the opposite I pass out right after.


Actually, you make a good point. What I don't understand is why this disconnect hasn't been solved in the last 5,000 years or so.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Actually, you make a good point. What I don't understand is why this disconnect hasn't been solved in the last 5,000 years or so.


I think there is a physiological component to it as men generate different brain chemicals during this activity but I mostly skipped over those bits in the books.


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## Schek (Jul 2, 2019)

CuriousC said:


> Thanks for the response. Hormones now maybe but this is the way it’s been for many years. I don’t expect miracles or acrobatics but I would have thought a bit of flirting or the want to wear nice lingerie every now and then is reasonable. Aside from all this I’m not sure I can put up with feeling so frustrated all the time. I’d be happier if the times we did have sex were more fun and more time allocated but alas I can’t see it change.


You can wear lingerie every now and then. Maybe put on some lipstick and dance for her.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

So we had a chat. We both wrote down issues that affect us/want improved etc. We’ve agreed to chat about the issues weekly initially to ensure we are considering each other’s ask. If in a month there are no improvements we’ll seek professional help. Hopefully we can make some progress! Again thank you all for the comments.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Great idea. I used this technique myself. Kind of still working on 4/12 of them with various degrees of success and one I gave up one.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Sfort said:


> I'm not sure how being tired gets as much credit for avoiding sex as it does. Some of the best sex my spouse and I ever had was after we drove twelve hours, pulling a trailer, in the driving rain. We were exhausted. When we got into the hotel room at 2am, fireworks.


On occasion, sure. Being exhausted might be a reasonable excuse.
As an ongoing pattern, it’s total ********.


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## Davie (May 4, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> Hey folks,
> Question if I may. How does one know if there expectations of their wife are unreasonable?
> So for me at 43, I know that I would definitely love to be having sex every day. My wife never has and most likely never will so I appreciate there must be a compromise. As it happens we’re struggling at the moment but even when things were good , at most we were twice a week maybe on the odd occasion 3 times but here’s my problem, I was/am never happy.
> I think it’s because it’s always rushed( she’d come to bed at 10:30), It’s always me initiating,rarely she would give me time for foreplay, there will never be any teasing or lingerie.Never morning sex or even anything suggestive when we’re working from hometogether.
> ...


OMG!!!! Finally someone in same boat as me. I hear all my friends get it everyday I got a buddy who gets it 3 times a day. My wife never initiates either I tell her it makes me feel unwanted. It’s hard and I struggle with it. I need to be intimate to stay emotionally connected


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## Davie (May 4, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> Hey folks,
> Question if I may. How does one know if there expectations of their wife are unreasonable?
> So for me at 43, I know that I would definitely love to be having sex every day. My wife never has and most likely never will so I appreciate there must be a compromise. As it happens we’re struggling at the moment but even when things were good , at most we were twice a week maybe on the odd occasion 3 times but here’s my problem, I was/am never happy.
> I think it’s because it’s always rushed( she’d come to bed at 10:30), It’s always me initiating,rarely she would give me time for foreplay, there will never be any teasing or lingerie.Never morning sex or even anything suggestive when we’re working from hometogether.
> ...


Your not being unreasonable. I think the women can be selfish take care of your man. Doesn’t cost them anything? We work hard and provide everything they need I just have no tolerance anymore it seriously hurts and eats at me. I think about it all day through out the day most men do whether they admit it or not. And if my needs are being met I’m way more relaxed I don’t think about it blood pressure is healthier and let’s face it. If you don’t GO atleast 3 times a week you are at higher risk for Prostate a cancer which my father had


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Great idea. I used this technique myself. Kind of still working on 4/12 of them with various degrees of success and one I gave up one.


I think we both need accountability. We’ve actually written down notes so we can go over them each week. Hopefully it will work for us


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

Davie said:


> OMG!!!! Finally someone in same boat as me. I hear all my friends get it everyday I got a buddy who gets it 3 times a day. My wife never initiates either I tell her it makes me feel unwanted. It’s hard and I struggle with it. I need to be intimate to stay emotionally connected


I’d say there are a lot of people in this boat. Most likely the majority just get on with it. Like you I can’t !
Anyone maybe try my approach- open chat - discuss wants/needs. Agree, write actions - and follow up each week. It all sounds like work 😂 but marriage is work to keep things going. Good luck!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> I’d say there are a lot of people in this boat. Most likely the majority just get on with it. Like you I can’t !
> Anyone maybe try my approach- open chat - discuss wants/needs. Agree, write actions - and follow up each week. It all sounds like work 😂 but marriage is work to keep things going. Good luck!


Yes except for the weekly follow ups. It is work but the payoff is worth it if successful.


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## Davie (May 4, 2020)

CuriousC said:


> I’d say there are a lot of people in this boat. Most likely the majority just get on with it. Like you I can’t !
> Anyone maybe try my approach- open chat - discuss wants/needs. Agree, write actions - and follow up each week. It all sounds like work 😂 but marriage is work to keep things going. Good luck!


I’m ready to cheat on Mine. What kind of dumbass works his ass off helps around the house does this does that and gets laid once a week at bedtime hurry I gotta work in the morning they don’t think we are priorities or that it’s just sex it’s not it’s a connection I need it to stay connected and feel loved instead I feel unwanted and depressed and I’m in testosterone treatment which I suffer extra i hate this


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## Jewelz03 (Jun 2, 2021)

Davie said:


> I’m ready to cheat on Mine. What kind of dumbass works his ass off helps around the house does this does that and gets laid once a week at bedtime hurry I gotta work in the morning they don’t think we are priorities or that it’s just sex it’s not it’s a connection I need it to stay connected and feel loved instead I feel unwanted and depressed and I’m in testosterone treatment which I suffer extra i hate this


Let’s be real here David. As your wife, you say you are ready to cheat but you have cheated multiple times. You never help around the house and after 10 years you just started helping out financially. All of a sudden you are making money and you think it gives you a right to treat me like crap and want me to stay connected to you. Did you mention in any of your post how abusive you are? How you’ve told me I’m not enough if I don’t sleep with you? We have no connection because you ruined any chance we had of working things out after you cheated by making me feel like I deserved it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Jewelz03 said:


> Let’s be real here David. As your wife, you say you are ready to cheat but you have cheated multiple times. You never help around the house and after 10 years you just started helping out financially. All of a sudden you are making money and you think it gives you a right to treat me like crap and want me to stay connected to you. Did you mention in any of your post how abusive you are? How you’ve told me I’m not enough if I don’t sleep with you? We have no connection because you ruined any chance we had of working things out after you cheated by making me feel like I deserved it.


Get out girl. I am glad you found the site and are shedding some light.

His side didn't really make sense by itself.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Davie said:


> I’m ready to cheat on Mine. What kind of dumbass works his ass off helps around the house does this does that and gets laid once a week at bedtime hurry I gotta work in the morning they don’t think we are priorities or that it’s just sex it’s not it’s a connection I need it to stay connected and feel loved instead I feel unwanted and depressed and I’m in testosterone treatment which I suffer extra i hate this


Been holding back some important information haven't you?🙄


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## Jewelz03 (Jun 2, 2021)

ConanHub said:


> Get out girl. I am glad you found the site and are shedding some light.
> 
> His side didn't really make sense by itself.


Yes, I had no idea about it until I was helping him email some things out. It actually hurt a lot to see all the lies. But at least now I know what he thinks and I’m sure tells other people.


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## CuriousC (May 7, 2020)

*Small update*
things are going very well so far.
We have kept up our weekly meeting but agreed to make it bi-weekly as we don’t want to be constantly going over the same ground.
The positive points are everything really. On both sides we listened to each other’s pain points and there’s been action too. We’re definitely more connected. She’s definitely putting in more effort as I believe I am too. On Monday we both said we were happy. 
obviously we can’t get complacent and that’s the purpose of our quick meetings just to ensure all is good.
Thanks again all


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CuriousC said:


> Am I being unreasonable?


I have seen some posts that describe the other side of this perspective. A wife that struggles with sex because her husbands wants long and drawn out sessions that are rather elaborate. The wife in the meantime enjoys sex, but wants things simple, natural and quick. 

By asking your wife to wear lingerie you might be sending a gesture that she is inadequate and you need more. By asking your wife to engage in more foreplay, that may make your wife feel like you are having arousal difficulties because she is inadequate. 

Try an experiment? There was one poster here that described a routine in which he used self pleasure to edge himself prior to having sex with his wife. He described it somewhat as a substitute for viagra so that he could easily perform for his wife. This would allow you to have a long and drawn out session in which your wife participates for the finale. One in which you are likely going to be extremely easy to please and things can happen rather naturally. This dynamic may allow you to shift your focus more onto learning more about what her needs are in order to enjoy things the most. In the event she just wants something natural and simple, she may enjoy it the most when you are easy to please. She may also want to see you satisfied as a result as opposed to feeling that you missed out on something more. 

Now that is just an experiment for the purpose of learning more about each other, not a suggestion for a way of life. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

CuriousC said:


> *Small update*
> things are going very well so far.
> We have kept up our weekly meeting but agreed to make it bi-weekly as we don’t want to be constantly going over the same ground.
> The positive points are everything really. On both sides we listened to each other’s pain points and there’s been action too. We’re definitely more connected. She’s definitely putting in more effort as I believe I am too. On Monday we both said we were happy.
> ...


It is great to see a relationship heading in the right direction. It is amazing what open and honest conversations can do. They can be hard to get started, but the more often you do it the less fear you have. 

Here is a site I've found to be very useful, Uncovering Intimacy It can sometimes go a little deeper into the Christian aspect of things, but still lot of good advice for keep a marriage healthy.


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