# Feel like I'm losing my mind



## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Been a while since I've been here. So I'll recap my sitch.

Married for 10 years. Separated for 8 months now. My H was emotionally abusive for the first 9 years of our marriage. He was very secretive. About a year ago I found escort contacts in his email (email contacts only, no messages). I found a paid subscription to a married adult dating site ASH...MAD.... And I found a charge on our credit card for a valentines gift I never received. Additionally he had multiple emails and aliases.

I received denial, anger, blame shifting, trickle truth. Finally he said he doesn't remember the escort contacts. He said it could have happened before we married. He said he paid for credits on A.M. but immediately realized what he had done and requested a refund that was never processed. Yet he waited 14 months to delete his profile.

I left. 8 months have passed. I've found other things (other dating sites and google searches for escorts). The dating sites were in the past. One present google escort search during the 8 months. He continues to maintain that it was all fantasy and he didn't do anything. He's been going to sexual addiction counseling. He keeps trying (eagerly) to fix our marriage.

Yet my gut still screams that he has not owned up to what he's done. He's admitted only what could be concretely proven. I can't wrap my mind around someone who supposedly loves their spouse yet goes on a pursuit of women for sexual gratification. 

Anyway, I feel guilty for not trying. I feel like he's the victim in all of this. I feel I'm close to caving. Yet if I cave and he has not owned his actions, they are bound to repeat. I don't want to go through this again. And I don't want to be married to someone capable of such things.

Am I losing my mind? Am I justified in ending the marriage? Could he be telling the truth? I don't know the answer to these questions anymore.

Opinions would be helpful.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Why would he need sexual addiction counselling if he hasn't been cheating and having lots of extra-marital sex?*:scratchhead:

Your husband has just shot himself in both his feet and handed you the smoking gun!

And you are not going mad. Probably you are now starting to go a little saner.


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## jen53 (Apr 26, 2013)

if he is like my OH he will tell only what he thinks he has to - I had a keylogger and KNEW what was going on -even after I told him how this would destroy me -he carried right on, when I called him on things going on on sites(paying subscriptions, deposit for dominatrix appointment) he completely lied, saying he hadn't paid anything etc-I didn't tell him I knew the truth,still haven't tbh, what the point, he would only get more devious- I fear it is addiction,


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Sadly, you have a cheater for husband. A serial cheater. Please remain firm, stay strong and take care of yourself. Your soul deserves happiness. I promise you, time heals all wounds.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Good point MattMatt. Thanks jen53. Addiction is correct. It is an addiction.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Do you have children?


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> Sadly, you have a cheater for husband. A serial cheater. Please remain firm, stay strong and take care of yourself. Your soul deserves happiness. I promise you, time heals all wounds.


The serial cheater thing is what I am afraid I may be dealing with. That doesn't just go away. And without admitting it, it will occur again. If indeed that is the case.

Thank you for your words. So far I have managed to remain strong and stand firm in my decision. Time is just minimizing his behaviors because he's trying so hard to fix things.

Thanks.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> Do you have children?


Yes. Two. Ages 23 and 13 but they are both from my first marriage. That ended in his infidelity as well. I'm batting a thousand here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

whataboutthis? said:


> My H was emotionally abusive for the first 9 years of our marriage.
> 
> I feel like he's the victim in all of this. I feel I'm close to caving. Yet if I cave and he has not owned his actions, they are bound to repeat. I don't want to go through this again. And I don't want to be married to someone capable of such things.


Did he somehow stop being abusive?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Focus on you and not on him. He's a serial cheater. He may or may not ever change. You need to continue your life and not concern yourself with his issues.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

whataboutthis? said:


> The serial cheater thing is what I am afraid I may be dealing with. That doesn't just go away. And without admitting it, it will occur again. If indeed that is the case.


Question: What do you think a marriage should be? Should it require fidelity?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I guess I don't understand what exactly there is to "fix". It's not like he had an affair after your marriage hit a rough patch. This has been going on your whole marriage, and by his account even before. He's a liar that isn't really interested in changing anything, he wants the comfort of a wife and home along with the excitement of side trash. If you go back you will have more of the same; he will do just enough to get you back and then start up again. Then when you catch him again he'll lie as much as here can then cry about his addiction. This will be your life with him. Get rid of him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

turnera said:


> Did he somehow stop being abusive?


Yes. He stopped being emotionally abusive but is still very controlling and dominant, even in separation. He's trying to change and I have seen change but he's also on his best behavior.

As for your other question...What do I think a marriage should be and should it require fidelity? 

I think a marriage should be both independent and selfless. Each person doing for the other yet taking care of themselves. I think a marriage should be respectful, never controlling or belittling. Trust is also essential. I know marriage is never perfect, but with independence, selflessness, respect, and truth (trust), most issues can be worked through in a way that can actually strengthen a marriage.

With this said, I think there's all kinds of marriages. If two people agree on an open marriage, it's an agreement and therefore mutually respectful. 

For me a marriage requires fidelity. For others maybe not.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I guess I don't understand what exactly there is to "fix". It's not like he had an affair after your marriage hit a rough patch. This has been going on your whole marriage, and by his account even before. He's a liar that isn't really interested in changing anything, he wants the comfort of a wife and home along with the excitement of side trash. If you go back you will have more of the same; he will do just enough to get you back and then start up again. Then when you catch him again he'll lie as much as here can then cry about his addiction. This will be your life with him. Get rid of him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


His point is that he didn't do anything but fantasize and that this can be fixed. He minimizes it and basically puts it on the same level as looking at porn.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

whataboutthis? said:


> He stopped being emotionally abusive but is still very controlling and dominant, even in separation.
> 
> I think a marriage should be respectful, never controlling or belittling. Trust is also essential. I know marriage is never perfect, but with independence, selflessness, respect, and truth (trust), most issues can be worked through in a way that can actually strengthen a marriage.


Ok, well, HE IS STILL CONTROLLING - but you think a marriage should be never controlling. So...why are you asking if you should be with him?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

whataboutthis? said:


> His point is that *he didn't do anything but fantasize* and that this can be fixed. He minimizes it and basically puts it on the same level as looking at porn.


 And you know this...how?


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

turnera said:


> And you know this...how?


Answering your first question...I'm not asking if I should be with him. Leaving someone because he is controlling is not necessarily a deal breaker. If I knew he was controlling I wouldn't have married him but that's neither here nor there. My issue isn't about him being controlling. Otherwise I wouldn't have made it the first year. My issue is whether or not to believe him. That leads me to your second question.

I don't know that it was fantasy. That's what's driving me. That's what I need help with. Should I go with my gut or is there a reasonable chance it was just fantasy?

Forgive me, but you tend to lose yourself when going through something like this. Someone working on your emotions for 8 months can wear on you and make you question yourself. Especially in the absence of concrete proof.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

whataboutthis? said:


> His point is that he didn't do anything but fantasize and that this can be fixed. He minimizes it and basically puts it on the same level as looking at porn.



Who cares what he thinks? I wouldn't believe for a minute that there wasn't more but regardless you have to decide if it's ok with you. You don't see the contradictions here? On one hand he wants to "fix" things, and I use the term loosely, but on the other hand it's like porn and no big deal. If it's no big deal what's there to fix? Besides, you need to return of your own free will, and not because he bullied you into it, but that's what manipulative and controlling people do. Do yourself favor and stop speaking to him at all; if you go back you'll know exactly what you're getting. If 
this wasn't all about him he'd step back and let you see what he's doing to improve himself, then let you choose to return. I'm sorry but I sense a bit of denial here, he probably does too and that's why he's to pushy.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Who cares what he thinks? I wouldn't believe for a minute that there wasn't more but regardless you have to decide if it's ok with you. You don't see the contradictions here? On one hand he wants to "fix" things, and I use the term loosely, but on the other hand it's like porn and no big deal. If it's no big deal what's there to fix? Besides, you need to return of your own free will, and not because he bullied you into it, but that's what manipulative and controlling people do. Do yourself favor and stop speaking to him at all; if you go back you'll know exactly what you're getting. If
> this wasn't all about him he'd step back and let you see what he's doing to improve himself, then let you choose to return. I'm sorry but I sense a bit of denial here, he probably does too and that's why he's to pushy.


I do see the contradictions. Thank you. I think what I needed today was some strength to keep fighting for myself. Thank you for that, and thank you to everyone else that have given me the strength I need. I appreciate it so very much.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

whataboutthis? said:


> His point is that he didn't do anything but fantasize and that this can be fixed. He minimizes it and basically puts it on the same level as looking at porn.


If it was the same level as looking at porn, he would just be looking at porn. 

This is another level. Hence, the extra level. 

He is manipulating you. Read up on it. It will give you a massive life lesson. It did me. I must have read for about 3-6 months on infidelity and manipulation articles before I became clear on what was happening to me without my knowledge. I was in a wind tunnel. After that, damage control! And yes, you have control over the damage.

ETA: Make your focus looking up manipulation articles. There is some really good stuff out there, and a really good website that specialises in manipulation and projection. Get reading! Educate yourself! And the more you read there, as well as the stuff on here that mirrors your own situation, the stronger your argument will be to denounce his waffle and fantasy garb and the less you will stand for it. 

It will then be up to him, and you, whether you continue in this farce any longer.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You would probably benefit from implementing more 180 behaviours, taking care of yourself with a mind to create more distance, so you can get some perspective. Hopefully that will lead to clarity, and from clarity to renewed strength.
I like this take on the 180:
SurvivingInfidelity.com - Understanding the 180


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

whataboutthis? said:


> He was very secretive. :redcard:
> I found escort contacts in his email :redcard:
> I found a paid subscription to a married adult dating site :redcard:
> And I found a charge on our credit card for a valentines gift I never received. :redcard:
> Additionally he had multiple emails and aliases.:redcard:


WAT, There are so many red flags in your initial paragraph and I could have peppered your whole post with them. Even one would be a cause for concern.


> I received denial, anger, blame shifting, trickle truth. Finally he said he doesn't remember the escort contacts. He said it could have happened before we married. He said he paid for credits on A.M. but immediately realized what he had done and requested a refund that was never processed. Yet he waited 14 months to delete his profile.


'Could' be before you were married? A refund never processed? And the cheater's ever popular answer, "I don't remember". And here's the thing: how do you accidentally type in your credit card details and purchase credits on an Adult Dating site? :scratchhead: 14 months to delete his profile? Only takes a second right?


> I left. 8 months have passed. I've found other things (other dating sites and google searches for escorts). The dating sites were in the past. One present google escort search during the 8 months. He continues to maintain that it was all fantasy and he didn't do anything. He's been going to sexual addiction counseling. He keeps trying (eagerly) to fix our marriage.


You left. GREAT. You stayed away from him for 8 months. GREAT. You kept in contact, snooping etc. BAD. Stay away. Stop all contact. You can do it, you've done 8 months. Or do you want to go back and grow old with this guy?


> Yet my gut still screams that he has not owned up to what he's done. He's admitted only what could be concretely proven.


That's how it always is.


> I feel guilty for not trying. I feel like he's the victim in all of this.


WAT. You have nothing to be guilty about. You are the victim, not him.


> Yet if I cave and he has not owned his actions, they are bound to repeat. I don't want to go through this again. And I don't want to be married to someone capable of such things.


You've just answered your own question here


> Am I losing my mind?


No, but you will if you go back with him.


> Am I justified in ending the marriage?


 Yes.


> Could he be telling the truth?


I'll eat my hat if he is.


> I don't know the answer to these questions anymore.


Deep down you do. 

WAT, he says it's all fantasy. Did he give the Valentine's gift to a '*fantasy*' OW? Was he sleeping with the OW he gave the gift to? Think about it. 

He has brainwashed you and you now doubt yourself. If a friend said her husband was doing all that, what would you say to her? The longer you engage with him in any way, the longer he'll brainwash you until you go back to him and end up where you were 8 months ago. Why undo all that hard work. Stay away, only see/talk to him when it's absolutely necessary. Come back here so posters can keep nudging you in the right direction. 

Remember the Valentine's gift.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

86857 said:


> WAT, There are so many red flags in your initial paragraph and I could have peppered your whole post with them. Even one would be a cause for concern.Trickle truth and lame excuses. A refund never processed? And cheaters' ever popular answer, "I don't remember". How do you accidentally take your credit card out of your pocket, type in your details and purchase credits on an Adult Dating site? :scratchhead: And 14 months to delete his profile???
> You left. GREAT. You stayed away from him for 8 months. GREAT. You kept in contact, kept snooping etc. BAD. Whatever you do stay away. Stop all contact. You can do it, you've done 8 months. Or do you want to go back and grow old with this guy?
> That's how it always is. BS gut screams while WH owns up to only some of it, i.e. to what can be proven. Trust your gut. It's rarely wrongWAT. Wake up! You have nothing to be guilty about so drop it. You are the victim, not him.You've just answered your own question hereNo, but you will if you go back with him.
> Yes.
> ...


Thank you. This was exactly what I needed to hear (read). Good medicine!


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

whataboutthis? said:


> Thank you. This was exactly what I needed to hear (read). Good medicine!


Thanks really great WAT. Keep coming back here if you falter!


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

86857 said:


> Thanks really great WAT. Keep coming back here if you falter!


I will. This support keeps my head clear. I believe I'm dealing with a serial cheater who is addicted to conquest. Yet he loves his wife (in his own way - not my idea of love) and will fight tooth and nail for his marriage. That's why its so crazy.

Thank you again!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

whataboutthis? said:


> I will. This support keeps my head clear. I believe I'm dealing with a serial cheater who is addicted to conquest. Yet he loves his wife (in his own way - not my idea of love) and will fight tooth and nail for his marriage. That's why its so crazy.
> 
> Thank you again!




He probably does love his wife, but understand that the marriage he is fighting for is the marriage he had, which is the marriage me wants. The marriage where he gets a nice wife that he can control, a wife that provides as home and free sex, a wife whose bar is so low that she's just happy he's not emotionally abusive anymore, and he still gets his side excitement. That's why you're getting the reactions you are, because he has no intention of changing anything so why would he admit to anything? His actions don't support his claims and his only hope is that he can wear you down enough to buy his bs. Why do you think he's so controlling? That's how he gets away with everything and it's used to getting his way; it probably kills him that he can't control you right now. Please stop communicating with him, and definitely keep coming back here! You'll find a great guy that treats you like you deserve!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

What, setting aside the infidelity (hard to do I know) let me address the controlling issue. Nobody can control you if you don't allow it. 

Let me repeat.

NOBODY CAN CONTROL YOU IF YOU DO NOT ALLOW IT.

If as you say he is still being controlling then it is because you are tolerating it. Stop. You are your own person. You don't need him or anyone else to be complete. If he acts controlling then completely brush him off. If you are secure with yourself and he tries to engage in controlling behavior he is just going to look foolish.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

whataboutthis? said:


> I will. This support keeps my head clear. I believe I'm dealing with a serial cheater who is addicted to conquest. Yet he loves his wife (in his own way - not my idea of love) and will fight tooth and nail for his marriage. That's why its so crazy.
> 
> Thank you again!


That's because his marriage, just like everything else he does for HIMSELF, is another conquest.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

*Yet my gut still screams that he has not owned up to what he's done. He's admitted only what could be concretely proven. I can't wrap my mind around someone who supposedly loves their spouse yet goes on a pursuit of women for sexual gratification. 

Anyway, I feel guilty for not trying. I feel like he's the victim in all of this. I feel I'm close to caving. Yet if I cave and he has not owned his actions, they are bound to repeat. I don't want to go through this again. And I don't want to be married to someone capable of such things.*

First, he is not a victim. He made choices that led to him doing what he is doing. I am a counselor.

I want to ask one question? You feel guilty for trying, trying what? Are you trying to fix the unknown?

Follow your gut. And move on. He has had plenty of time to come clean.

I will also add, that some here on TAM (myself included) will often say that we (the BS) do not give the WS enough consequences. I have read where even when this was done, the WS blows through the consequences like white on rice. 

I believe your husband is blameshifting. He goes to meetings for what reason? IMO, he is going to blameshift his issues to something more than what it is. He is not taking responsibility nor is he owning up to the fact that he has made choices.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

bfree said:


> What, setting aside the infidelity (hard to do I know) let me address the controlling issue. Nobody can control you if you don't allow it.
> 
> Let me repeat.
> 
> ...


He has a very controlling nature. When he does it I call him on it and he backs off. But it's enough to know that the controlling part of his personality is still there.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

turnera said:


> That's because his marriage, just like everything else he does for HIMSELF, is another conquest.


You are right. I feel like I'm a huge conquest to him now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Then stop being one.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

turnera said:


> Then stop being one.


It's a year long endeavor in my state. Cant file until one year of separation. He's involved in my children's lives and I am cold to him day in and day out. I'm certainly not inviting the conquest. But he persists none the less. I would love to be able to file now and just get it over with. But without hard proof of infidelity I do not have grounds. I'm 8 months in. That's 8 months of standing my ground and not being a conquest. Still he tries day in and day out to win me back. It wears you down.

But you are correct. If I keep my mind attuned to the fact that that's what this is to him...a conquest, it will keep me from believing his overt attempts at sincerity.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can do this! And in a couple years, you'll look back and laugh about how pathetic he was.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Insist any communication be regarding the kids, and only what is absolutely needed. Insist to the kids that they are not to relay messages or tell him about what you are up to. Set clear, definitive boundaries, and enforce them. Use every means available if you have to. Have you consulted legal advice re divorce yet? If so, perhaps you can ask for advice on restricting his contact with you. He is not allowed to harass you.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

*I believe your husband is blameshifting. He goes to meetings for what reason? IMO, he is going to blameshift his issues to something more than what it is. He is not taking responsibility nor is he owning up to the fact that he has made choices.[/QUOTE]*

Thank you for your response. Hearing from a counselor is most helpful. So far the counselors we have seen have minimized the behavior as if the excuses were perfectly plausible. It's like having an elephant in the room and people convincing you there is no elephant, even though it has crapped on your shoe.

So, hearing from a counselor that he is blameshifting really confirms my beliefs. Thank you.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

turnera said:


> You can do this! And in a couple years, you'll look back and laugh about how pathetic he was.


Yes, I can do this. Thank you.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I wouldn't bother with mc anymore, just go see an ic for yourself.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

SadandAngry said:


> I wouldn't bother with mc anymore, just go see an ic for yourself.


Thanks. I did see an IC for a while. She taught me to hold my boundaries, which was very enlightening. Perhaps I need to go back for more sessions to keep me strong during the last mile.

Thanks. Good idea.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bubblehead said:


> You are not losing your mind. I do have a controlling personality. Lots of it has to do with prior military background. But, controlling and trying to be a fixer and always wanting to be in charge is hard to break. I do mean well, and am trying to fix our relationship. But I cant do this alone, and after passing a polygraph, going to counseling and changing myself for the better I think I am doing better.
> I think counseling is what needs to be done vice getting advice from forum members who cant see both sides of everything.


You have your own thread? That might help, if you haven't.

And being controlling is not nice for the controlled. Could you address this issue in IC?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Bubblehead said:


> You are not losing your mind. I do have a controlling personality. Lots of it has to do with prior military background. But, controlling and trying to be a fixer and always wanting to be in charge is hard to break. I do mean well, and am trying to fix our relationship. But I cant do this alone, and after passing a polygraph, going to counseling and changing myself for the better I think I am doing better.
> I think counseling is what needs to be done vice getting advice from forum members who cant see both sides of everything.


I, too, think that counseling is most important here. Your W tells a story that spans many years & the result for her as far as the listener can understand is that she doesn't know what to trust. You were investigating escorts and had credits for an AM site at a time when she was still trying to be a wife and hold things together. These are hurtful betrayals that tip a balance.

I remember when you posted before and I remember feeling sympathetic to your side. You are correct that hearing from both people gives a more realistic picture. I'm assuming that you are working on what was motivating you to betray her before and you don't want to split up. She has to want to work on it, too, of course, and she sounds like the burden of everything, all those years, has just taken a toll. So you two are not right now on the same page, independent of anything anyone on a forum says.

It sounds like you don't think it would be valuable, but if you started a thread of your own, it could help. Listening to others' perspectives can bring in some fresh air.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Sorry everyone. I deleted the poly thread because of my H's reaction to it. This thread was resurrected when he posted on it. Not trying to weigh the forum down with my stuff here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, so you don't deserve help? You don't want to bother us? 

Come on, be smarter about this, whataboutthis. If you need advice, ask for it. Combine that with your IC and taking steps to move forward. And ignoring a person who does nothing but hurts you.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

Thanks Turnera. I regretted deleting the thread after I did it because that was my voice and it conveyed the latest of my situation. I deleted because he read it and it hurt him. 

Yes I do deserve help and it's not that I didn't want to bother everyone, this particular thread is old and focuses on issues that have progressed since. So reading might cause some to be confused as to why it goes back instead of forward.

But the reality is, regardless of timing and thread progression, I am still neck deep in pain.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Please understand this: He can be as remorseful as he wants to be. It does NOT remove the pain he caused you. And it is only words. If he were TRULY remorseful, he would be in therapy 2 or 3 times a week, he would be doing NOTHING except working on turning into a completely different person, and he would be LEAVING YOU ALONE.

Actions, not words.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Not on her thread, please, Bubblehead.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

We're crossing lines here because I just posted on his thread. Only to answer a posters question about something being off though. I usually refrain from posting on H's thread. I know it's taboo though. Shouldn't have done it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, that's fine. He's coming here to try to convince US to support him. 

That doesn't work.


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## whataboutthis? (Apr 5, 2013)

turnera said:


> No, that's fine. He's coming here to try to convince US to support him.
> 
> That doesn't work.


FWIW, I do think he is sincere in his efforts to change. I'm just so scarred by the pain that occurred during the bulk of the marriage. And I don't think he realizes the brevity of what that emotional abuse did to our daughter and to me because he leaves it out of the scenario when asking for help. That aside. It is what it is. 

It's like when an animal's will is broken. That animal may never recover with the person responsible for breaking his will. 

But all in all, I care about his feelings. Which is why I deleted the other post. I caused him pain. I don't want to do that...cause pain. But at the same time I have to work on my own pain.

It's nuts.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The fact that he IS willing to ignore what he did to your daughter is the most worrisome aspect, IMO.

And he was 'caused pain' for discussing what he did? meh

That's like saying a cheater is hurting because the BS told the OM/OW's spouse. Too bad so sad.


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