# Learning to accept being alone.



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Not looking for a pitty party but I am still trying to adjust to this reality and I am sort of wondering if I will lose mind or if the adjustment just takes time? Having failed in two relationships, I will admit that I just don't have it in me to try again. That feeling might change some day, but it won't come anytime soon. I am extremely picky and being a little outside my prime now (late 30s), at least in my area, it looks like "the leftover counter" in the dating pool. I have been chased around by several women but I just feel nothing. I want to believe I can maintain friendships with women but I guess because I am single, they think there is more to it. I have tried to convey my position but they seem to think I am kidding. 

I think what sets in is still depression and sadness but I have no desire to change it. To maintain my brain, I just work. I work 7 days/week. Because I am self employed, sometimes I work all night, take a nap at 6-7am, and go back to doing something. I have lots of business type ventures I am working on. Some days I am motivated to obtain my high goals, some I just want to make enough to keep things paid for and carry on. I have a dog. I might lose it if I didn't have her. She is most of the interaction I get. 

I do have friends and not totally isolated but I no long desire to see family. I do see them, but last saw my parents during Christmas. I talk to friends (male) on the phone mostly but I do some work at a friend's place so I am there a lot and see him I guess. I try to avoid children because I enjoy them and it sort of emotionally draining. 

I have not seen my own kids in probably 6mo. It was realized that I cannot give them what they need and I think better for their mental health to stay with their mom and her fiance and I send a check. I don't think about them much and doesn't really bother me. 

I mostly desire to go do a few things but I need to figure out how I can do things alone without a feeling of awkwardness. I wanted to go to a country concert recently. How do you attend one of those by yourself? I really don't have desire to interact and make friends, I just want something to do. I am sure I can find a date in 5min but they will think it is more than it is. None of my friends are single so that either becomes a 3rd wheel situation or they will probably be busy. I don't really get invited to things because I usually won't go. 

I know it probably just seems like I need intense therapy and I am REAL sure that is mostly what will be recommend, or "join a group". I don't have time or desire for "a group" unless it is talking about making money. I mostly want to figure out how I learn to accept just being single, and go do things by myself. I am well connected in my area and people know me. It has felt very awkward running into people and the first question is "who are you here with?" I know I will run into people. 

I would say at this point, my dog is probably my best friend, so I try to figure out things I can do with her. Some places don't like dogs. People always have to come pet her because she is very pretty and well mannered so this becomes an issue. I don't want to be an ass, and try to be polite about it. She draws attention I don't want but she is sort of my partner. 

Again, I am just trying to paint the picture here. It probably looks like a ****ty one but thats what I got. I know some will say hang out with family but I am not comfortable with them and usually want to leave. I just want to kill the boredom somehow, without feeling awkward. I can have plenty of hobbies but I know getting out is probably best for me. I wanted to go to the car show recently but didn't. I think I can have fun with that as you can wonder by yourself and plenty to look at. 

Ideas? Lets not take this the therapy direction. I just want to figure out how to fly solo like a boss.


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## Average Joe (Sep 2, 2015)

I would learn to surf (or stand-up paddle board), snowboard, mountain bike, or ride a motorcycle. Zen-like and solitary activities, with health benefits. If I weren't married, I would be out on the lake w/my paddle board most of the year. You can even bring doggo and a cooler along on a paddle board!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I do have a motorcycle and ride a mountain bike. It is frozen here though and that is probably affecting me. I do like going to our county park and ride or whatever.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Honestly, you sound like you have clinical depression -- you may want to see a Dr about that.
The lack of desire to see your kids (!!! DON'T do this or you will never get back the relationship you want with them), see/do thing with your friends, etc. all sound like this is the case.

As for going to concerts, I've attended a lot of them by myself -- my wife doesn't like some of the music I do, so ..
Why do you care if other people there see you by yourself? You are not there for them , you are there so that YOU can enjoy the conert.

Again, the lack of drive to do anything/be with anyone, etc. sounds like depression. Your Dr. should be able to help decide that. PLEASE look into that (and yeah, i know going to a Dr sucks... but )


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I find it disturbing that you dont think about or miss your own kids. 

There is no trick here, you just live your life. Find something that you love to do, hobby/fun-wise not work, and it will put you in a whole different mindset. You wont be concentrating on the fact of being alone because your mind will be content with other things.


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## cma62 (Jul 31, 2010)

I’m sorry you are feeling this way.
What jumped out at me most was the fact that you think your kids are better off with you sending a check than having physical contact and quality time with them. No,no,no...that is definitely not what they want.
They want their Dad, but not in the capacity you are in now. Get some help, if you don’t feel like it do it for them.
You could be channeling all your extra energy into planning time with them, spending time with them, instead of working.
If your budget doesn’t permit too much, a trip to the local playground with Dad pushing them on the swings would be beneficial to both of you.
Please don’t give up on seeing your kids, they need you and you need them.
Hope you get help to pull yourself out of this.
A walk around the block or in the woods would be a good start.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

I find it both sad and disturbing that you "just send a check" to your kids. Do you realize it's not all about you?

You sound legitimately depressed. Go see a doctor.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

While I appreciate the thoughts on the kids, there is just more to it and I am just tired. Tired of dealing with my ex over parenting styles. She is obviously the model parent and sought to limit my 50% right to my kids because I have rules, so I let her take over. 

Let me offer a glimpse. I have said countless times that my teen son is not to be trusted. He makes bad decisions. In my home, he is awarded no privacy to his stuff. I am not one of those parents that will have some kid on crack and "I didn't even know". I wish I could trust him, but you have to earn that with me. 

He is not allowed a phone even though it would be helpful. He has been caught looking up porn and won't stop. Mom bought him a phone. I told her it doesn't come to my house unless I have the password. So.... supposedly it doesn't come here. Then one night I hear him jacking around. He is looking up porn on HIS phone AND had cold called 911 about 15x for the hell of it...!!! This is where I get my point across. I took it outside and used the sledge on his phone, put it in a baggy in 1000 pieces and put it in his bag. You can call it psycho, I call it tired of getting run over. 

Other boy is a complete angel and caught up in this, and I feel bad, but he just needs to stay away from me. I am no longer a warm a fuzzy person, I have learned how to block all emotion and don't wish to experience it. My life turned to **** about the time I believed my ex when she said "we are good, I am on the pill". 

So anyway.... Sorry about that rant. I am done playing parent at the moment, I would just like to have some peace and looking for ways to find that...by myself. I think I realize exercise or lack-of right now is bothering me. When warmer, I was running almost daily. I can run in 30s weather, but right now is 10F and sleeting. Yes, they have gyms here but I don't want to experience that. Meat heads and I like to work out alone.


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## Average Joe (Sep 2, 2015)

How about taking some classes? Painting, glass blowing, cooking, welding, motorcycle building, creative writing, or something similar. Making stuff is good. It's your chance to do something you may have always wanted to do.

In lieu of the gym (which I hate with a red-hot passion), I do a combination of calisthenics and one meal a day (OMAD). It has effing changed my life. So in the meantime, that's something to focus on. Stay agile and strong.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

bobsmith said:


> I have not seen my own kids in probably 6mo. It was realized that I cannot give them what they need and I think better for their mental health to stay with their mom and her fiance and I send a check. I don't think about them much and doesn't really bother me.


As the daughter of a man that I never saw after my parents divorced I can't stress to you enough just how wrong you are in this. Unless you abuse them in some way they are NOT better off without you. I can guarantee that at this moment they are wondering what the hell is wrong with them that their Dad has abandoned them. They will probably need years of therapy to overcome the sense of worthlessness you are instilling in them by abandoning them. I can't think of anything more sad. 

You are depressed and pretty badly it sounds like. You need professional help, now. Call your doctor and discuss it with him/her. There are many good medications on the market that can help you. Don't spend your life feeling this way when there is help.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Your attitude of just "giving up" with your kids is a big sign of depression.
Is being a parent hard? YES of course it is, but just giving up your responsibilities is a poor solution. You are letting your ex give them no boundaries, no consequences, etc.. By YOU giving up and in to her, you are going to be responsible for unleashing a couple of irresponsible and awful people on society.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Well, I am realizing my error in bringing up that part of my life, as that has become the focus. 

And honestly no disrespect to Joe as I am genuinely trying to find some way to function and have fun......but I am about as "male" as one can get. I was going to say "man" but that would probably be questioned due to the kids. I have been making things and building since I could walk. I was rebuilding engines professionally by 17yo, hold a professional engineering license, own a cnc machine shop where I have machines that weigh 50k lbs, the size of a 1 car garage, and pull more power than a typical household. I own an excavator and bulldozer that are 60k lbs each and require an oversize semi permit to move them. 

I own 4 meat smokers, and 3 grills, and 2 trucks, one of which is a 6x6 diesel dually. I have played guitar most of my life, I buy broken electronics just for the challenge of fixing them, and I love beer. 

I say none of that in arrogance! Honestly just trying to get someone in the mindset. I am in the industrial world! lol I do (did) enjoy cooking though! I haven't touched a grill in 8mo now as I don't cook for anyone and that seems boring now. 

Makes me wonder what I do enjoy.....lol


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

bobsmith, you haven't responded about getting to your physician. Please get checked for depression.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Short and sweet:

I always preferred going to events and bars alone because, and this is critical to understand and enjoy.... you could meet many people, one person, or anywhere in between, and you are in total control over how and who you spend time with.

And it's perfectly fine to go places alone. Many do, many wish they could. 

And it will take time brother, to get used to your new circumstance. It's normal to have some apprehension. 

Those "I'm all alone" feelings will pass.

Just don't do, call, say anything rash to anyone while you're adjusting, or make any major decisions while you're getting some time under your belt.

Stay in touch with your kids as you can. That dynamic is changed a but but not as restrictive as you may think, even though at this exact point in time it may seem like its unworkable. It's not. Different, yes, but not destructive. 

Look at it like this - you're more in control of your emotional state of mind and physical being than in a long time. 

No mental games going on.

And you've done some incredible things to get situated. 

It will take a bit if time then you'll begin to have periods of peace and excitement about things and days / nights will start to feel normal. 

It will happen. You'll be ok.

Peace to you brother. 

Ragnar


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Please see your doctor. Sounds like your kids need you. Please don't check out on them.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

jlg07 said:


> bobsmith, you haven't responded about getting to your physician. Please get checked for depression.


While I do appreciate it, I won't be visiting. The standard remedy is anti depressants in which I can bank on picking up about 50lbs. I think for the most part, I just need to exercise, which can balance me better, and that just leaves finding something to do.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

bobsmith said:


> While I do appreciate it, I won't be visiting. The standard remedy is anti depressants in which I can bank on picking up about 50lbs. I think for the most part, I just need to exercise, which can balance me better, and that just leaves finding something to do.


Have you been on them before? Many people take them and never gain an ounce. I took some due to post partum depression and my weight never changed. I have a couple coworkers who have been taking them for a few years and also never gained any weight at all.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

bobsmith said:


> The standard remedy is anti depressants in which I can bank on picking up about 50lbs.


Actually, in clinical studies, Wellbutrin has shown to promote weight loss in many patients. Not all AD's cause weight gain.

I'm on Paxil 30 mg. Since going on it, I've lost almost 30 lbs. I also work out four days a week at a local gym. Before Paxil, I sat on my ass and drank too much. Now I'm more energized and interested in my overall health and maintaining a healthy weight.

Working out hard is always a great way to boost anyone's mood. I'm all for it. But some of us need meds to remain balanced. Your life. Your choice.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I hesitate to say this to a depressed man and I'm not going to follow this thread, but I have to say this. You are not and have not properly connected to your son and that is likely at least half of his problem. The other half is your wife's refusal to set any boundaries. Your child's issues are the consequence of two people who don't know how to have relationship or raise children. The way you handled the situation with your son's phone was horrible. No wonder he is a wreck.

So in order to deal with this terrible mess that you are at least half responsible for, you desert your children and wallow in depression. I hope you don't commit suicide, because that would be the absolutely worst thing you could do.

Of course you need therapy. You should be going once a week and you should start yesterday. Take responsibility for yourself and your children. Get some help and stop making excuses for your terrible attitude and behavior. This is disgusting.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I don't remember much from your past threads. I do remember you were a really good griller--maybe you could teach folks who don't have a clue how to even build a fire.. 

You said, "My life turned to **** about the time I believed my ex when she said "we are good, I am on the pill".

OCPD was sometimes a problem for you. Perfectionistic tendencies play havoc when you have kids. Teenage years are so difficult, please don't be mad at your kids because of issues with their mom. They need you for balance, love, and connection. Was their mom the one who was so critical of you? Again seeking perfection causes great angst when living with a critical spirit. Being perfect is not good--I remember the first time I learned that from an expert.

I do lots of things alone. Don't worry about looking out of place--most other people don't really care about you and are just making conversation. I can be kinda lazy when I'm not going with someone else, but if I'm really motivated, I go. Cruises where you can take adventure side trips work, because you can hang with the group or alone--I've done both.

I like solitude--don't mind eating alone or at 'community' table. I've been to concerts alone or with a group. I do things with church ladies too.

I guess what I'm trying to describe is a mind-set--I'm ok with the situation in which I decide to participate. Sometimes, it would be more fun to share with another, but if that doesn't happen, there are other benefits--I can be more spontaneous, more picky, more in control.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

bob i renenber your posts from a few years ago. I have not been on this forum for a long time. But I remeber what a mess your older son was causing in your marriage - so sorry it got worse. You were considering divorce then. How did it go from there to she has a fiance? 

Again I have not logged on in a while so I probably missed it. I remember how hard you were trying and what a sh$tshow it was becoming. Dont know if i have solid advice but working long hours and physical fitness is good


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

From what I recall you were between a rock and a hard place. Sorry it has gotten worse but at some point you can only do so much. Before everyone goes apesh$t on him go back to the parenting forum or whatever and look at what had been going on. It was not good and I could not think of a plan forward if I was him


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

You're doing some things right. Now is not the time to be dating and you are telling interested women that. Good for you.

As for what your prospects are if/when you are ready, cross that bridge when you get to it.
@jlg07 is giving some very good advice. Divorce is often devastating, and it is normal to be sad at a time like this. But being sad and depression aren't the same thing. You're showing a couple of classic signs of depression, pessimistic predictions, deciding people are better off w/o you. Deciding a counselor will prescribe something that makes you fat is a pessimistic prediction.

A good book on depression is "Feeling Good" by David Burns. You have a lot less to lose by getting help than you do by cutting yourself off from life.

As for going places alone, I don't have a problem w/ it and on a few occasions have made really good friends I wouldn't have if I'd stayed home. 

Please keep us posted.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Late 30's? You are so young!!! See what you are considering "failures" right now as situations (relationships) to learn from. What do you feel you did wrong? I would also suggest reading the "mars and Venus" books. Men and women think very differently from one another. These books might hekp you to understand your own behavior and those of the mate you are attracting.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

Your kids need you to be a dad to them. A father or mother never abandons their kids. 

Get off your butt, get some help for your depression and do what you can to be a good influence on them.

Get some counseling.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

To those answers about doing things alone, I guess I am looking for how I learn to be comfortable doing things alone? Did you just go and were good with it the first time? I will say I think indoor concerts probably intimidate me more than outdoors. I don't know. I own a camper but I don't know why it bothers me to realize I will be the only one at the event that is by myself. However, at a concert last year, I went with friends but I still sort of abandoned them and went walking by myself. It is pretty boring but I don't have to deal with other people. 

I think doing things alone gets tough around people because I see happy people and just start wondering how a guy that just wanted to be married and a happy life ended up with the short stick. I know others have mentioned that I needed to look for "other qualities" in a partner but I cannot help that I have high standards regarding appearance. I guess I really thought the last one I dated for 3.5yrs was the one, but I didn't engage her, even though she begged, because I could sense she was a superficial and selfish person. I got to watch her run off with another guy, have a kid with him and marry him in 12mo. As much as I want a happy life, even the thought of another partner will always bring those thoughts back and I cannot handle failure again. That one nearly killed me, literally. 

Yes, I did try ADs for a while many years ago for what I self diagnosed as social anxiety. It helped but I gained about 30lbs. I have been athletic my whole life but at that time I guess I was in party mode. I currently don't have 30lbs to lose. I pretty much weigh what I did in college. 

I realize my mistake in mentioning my parent situation. My first ex is not a bad person, she is just honestly not intelligent and she admits that. I have a high IQ and realize that is not a good match. She now has a good guy that probably shares a similar IQ and those types are content with just having a job and existing. Live how the government instructs you, pay taxes and more taxes, and have a 401K so the government can use it to bail out the elitists. Walk single file and never question authority. I am just different and have goals. Whether I reach all of them or not, who knows. I guess all I have is time. 

I realize looking in, it appears I have abandoned my kids but I think it is healthier that they are around people that are happy. They can see what a happy couple is, and don't have to wonder who they will be with each day. Their step dad is a good guy and i'm sure is filling the dad role well. They just need some normalcy and routine. I know mom takes care of them and is overall a good mother. She does all the motherly things. I provide insurance for them and send money. I just cannot give them the fuzzy happiness they deserve. Kids learn from their parents and surroundings and at the very least, I want them to turn out the exact polar opposite of me. My oldest already has everything I preach in his head. Don't treat school like a chore. We worked hard to put them in the best school in the area. Take advantage of college courses offered in high school and think down the road. Shoot higher than a "job". Shoot for a career you enjoy. I went to my youngest' school conference last year and was in shock that she had nothing to talk about. He has straight A's and the teacher's pet. He has manners and respect that stands out. 

So it might seem like abandonment, but I do have their interests in mind. They don't need negativity in their life.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Meds have changed a bunch over the years. When the chemicals in our body get out of whack, sometimes it takes outside intervention to put us right. If you had diabetes, would you take meds prescribed for that? pneumonia?

If you could wave a magic wand, what would you wish for? Bet then you'd want something else. From my perspective, it seems you have a tendency to focus on the negative--you'll never find happiness there.

Don't let things outside yourself rule your life. As an experiment, focus internally where you have more control and see if that makes a difference. I'm wondering if your parents held you to super high standards and now that real life has slapped you in the face--a bunch, you judge yourself harshly, and maybe you just don't choose to take risks and therefore avoid hurt?

Sometimes I have what I call a 'critical spirit' and I have to remind myself that we humans are not supposed to be anywhere near perfect (thank goodness). Sure it is good to have high standards and follow certain life rules, but we all stumble and fall. To me, success is picking yourself up and limping on when things are tough. This takes courage and energy to decide to participate in scary places. Just my thoughts...


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I think that is all easier said than done. You bet I am on lock down, and intend to stay that way. Pretty much burned all the fight out of me. I just want to be left alone. I have moments of wanting interaction, and I make dumb decisions such as contacting one of my few "lady friends", but that just makes it worse so I need to figure out a way to be content alone. 

Funny thing is i typically don't quit on anything. It's what made me an all state tailback. Even when you have 1500lbs of linemen hammering down, you keep your feet moving and dig for a yard. This is just different. That's the reason I don't do therapy. All they will tell me is what I need to do or focus on. They cannot erase pain or memories. Believe me, I looked into therapy to suppress memories. 

I really didn't get on to try to get mental help. We all know, including me, I am bat **** crazy. I just want to figure out how to function alone and no long desire the 'more' and be content with it all. I am sure with enough meds, I won't give two ****z. My ex got on a pile of pills when her dad died and she wasn't really 'present'..... Thinking more, maybe that is a good play. That could certainly numb everything. I don't know if I would really enjoy a concert on meds, but I then might not care! lol 

Which meds are on the hot list today?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Sunsetmist, I guess since your comment sort of struck a chord with me, figured I would mention I am an identical twin. There has been unspoken competition and comparison from day one. Who is taller, who is smarter, who is faster. It is not something that was idealized by my bro or family, but something only a twin can understand. I am trying to think back to when perfection became part of my life. I would not say my parents ever told me to be perfect, and in all ways, my parents were excellent. Either would give their last dime or breath to their kids and just want us to be happy. I think perfection hit around the time I moved to a new school in 6th grade and that fight to fit in. I was always athletic so I guess I climbed the ladder quickly but I wanted to be the best, though I didn't work the hardest at it. 

I might have learned from example from my dad, that strives to do his best at everything. I would say I can take it to a different level. I would say my dad taught me to shoot high and gave us the encouragement and support we needed. He did not expect A's, he just wanted us to try our best. He was more than honored to see his twin boys as THE running backs in football. My bro was fullback and I was tail. You could not stop us. We knew each other too well. Athletics did not lead us in life, but it was a high point. 

I can remember everything my dad did was quality work. He grew up on a farm. His dad was military and I learned a LOT from him. To this day, I stand straight, I look up, I can tie a tie to perfection, and I will correct any man that cannot get is friggin belt, shirt, and tie lined up. I shake hands like I mean it. That man was not wealthy but he took care of what he had. 2 new tractors. They were in the shed every night, they were washed, and maintained. 

My dad wanted a better life and he fought for it. He moved up quickly in construction because his work stood out. I can pick out crappy irrigation, sod, grass, grade work, etc. I can also find the flaws in a show car. I can buy it off at 10ft away or I can get right in and find the one fisheye in the paint job. It has made me good at my work. Make airplane parts. Lives matter and I want my work to pass all inspections and more. 

I would say my tendencies have caused great stress, but a lot of respect, and it feels good knowing that when people call for my help, its because they know I do it right. 

I really don't know if my upbringing caused something, I was born with that gene, or what. I have no idea if it needs fixed but after this long, I doubt I can change too much. I can chose to ignore it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> To those answers about doing things alone, I guess I am looking for how I learn to be comfortable doing things alone? Did you just go and were good with it the first time? I will say I think indoor concerts probably intimidate me more than outdoors. I don't know. I own a camper but I don't know why it bothers me to realize I will be the only one at the event that is by myself. However, at a concert last year, I went with friends but I still sort of abandoned them and went walking by myself. It is pretty boring but I don't have to deal with other people.


So you don't want to go alone, but you don't want to deal w/ other people. This is conflicted.


> I think doing things alone gets tough around people because I see happy people and just start wondering how a guy that just wanted to be married and a happy life ended up with the short stick. I know others have mentioned that I needed to look for "other qualities" in a partner but I cannot help that I have high standards regarding appearance.


On one hand you seem to realize your priorities have led to some of your problems, that is a very good start. But then you say this isn't your responsibility. So close, yet so far.


> I guess I really thought the last one I dated for 3.5yrs was the one, but I didn't engage her, even though she begged, because I could sense she was a superficial and selfish person. I got to watch her run off with another guy, have a kid with him and marry him in 12mo. As much as I want a happy life, even the thought of another partner will always bring those thoughts back and I cannot handle failure again. That one nearly killed me, literally.


Now is not the time for you to be dating, I think we agree. As for what thoughts dating will always bring back, why are you trying to predict that now? Cross the bridge when you get to it.


> Yes, I did try ADs for a while many years ago for what I self diagnosed as social anxiety. It helped but I gained about 30lbs. I have been athletic my whole life but at that time I guess I was in party mode. I currently don't have 30lbs to lose. I pretty much weigh what I did in college.


You don't know if a counsellor would prescribe anything or not, and if he did you have no obligation to take it.


> I realize my mistake in mentioning my parent situation. My first ex is not a bad person, she is just honestly not intelligent and she admits that. I have a high IQ and realize that is not a good match. She now has a good guy that probably shares a similar IQ and those types are content with just having a job and existing. Live how the government instructs you, pay taxes and more taxes, and have a 401K so the government can use it to bail out the elitists. Walk single file and never question authority. I am just different and have goals. Whether I reach all of them or not, who knows. I guess all I have is time.
> 
> I realize looking in, it appears I have abandoned my kids but I think it is healthier that they are around people that are happy. They can see what a happy couple is, and don't have to wonder who they will be with each day. Their step dad is a good guy and i'm sure is filling the dad role well. They just need some normalcy and routine. I know mom takes care of them and is overall a good mother. She does all the motherly things. I provide insurance for them and send money. I just cannot give them the fuzzy happiness they deserve. Kids learn from their parents and surroundings and at the very least, I want them to turn out the exact polar opposite of me. My oldest already has everything I preach in his head. Don't treat school like a chore. We worked hard to put them in the best school in the area. Take advantage of college courses offered in high school and think down the road. Shoot higher than a "job". Shoot for a career you enjoy. I went to my youngest' school conference last year and was in shock that she had nothing to talk about. He has straight A's and the teacher's pet. He has manners and respect that stands out.
> 
> So it might seem like abandonment, but I do have their interests in mind. They don't need negativity in their life.


More conflictedness here. You think their mother's priorities leave something to be desired, but you think they're better off w/o your influence and hope they are completely opposite of you.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this sounds like depression and depression isn't any good for anybody. At the least, you need to recognize and counteract the tendencies of depression. The best way is w/ professional help, but if you won't do that I did recommend a book("Feeling Good", Burns).

You've been through something awful and we are all sympathetic. I think you're stuck in some counterproductive patterns, and I think a counsellor would help you work through them a lot faster than we can here.

You're a bright person who seems to be checking out of life. Don't.


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## Llb84 (Feb 28, 2019)

Maybe spending that quality time with your kids can help you come out of that depressed state of mind. It is disturbing to see you say you don't have a desire to be involved in their lives. Is this because of the break up from their mother? I think if you invest time in those little ppl of yours and they start showing their unconditional they have for you if will help to redirect your thoughts and change your actions.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I guess I did not intend for my thread to just be about the little ones. I think it was hard enough when I parted with their mother, realizing 50% time was as good as I would ever get with them. Going from 100% to 50% is not pleasant. In my last relationship, I bonded very tightly to her little girl as my own and that bond is hard to even explain. Some would think we clashed but we both knew better and that little girl knew me and stole me. I was with her 95% of the time. Then she just disappeared in an instant. I ended up in a relationship with a cold demon (the mother), what can I say. 

It is probably hard to accept on the Inet but I am not the father type I once was and my kids won't get much from me. They need things I cannot give them. Their mother is doing an admirable job and I am certain it is easier for them not having to figure out who they will be with each day. It is confusing!

Today, I am just different. I stay away from kids, I try to stay away from anything that might "grow on me". I guess I half ass hug my nieces because there is just enough there to make you wish for a normal life. It just leaves a mark of bull****. I poke my head in at birthdays, shake a couple hands, wear the fake smile, and leave quickly. 

I don't need the pity or accusations. I have been through all that and more with my family. I just want to get past the hope and emptiness and move forward. Focus on business, make a ****load of money, and buy shallow women drinks. 

I got a nice txt from a FWB today that she just wants more and wants to terminate contact. I cannot blame her but I warned her, my hugs are addictive, me so sorry.....lol So I guess I move to the next one that thinks she will change me.

EDIT: that seemed more like venting. My apology..... I don't get out much....lol


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

@bobsmith Does this sum up your posts?
Your whole life everything has either been a competition, challenge, or struggle of some kind. Have to dig in and fight on football field, college, struggling for perfection in trades, work, relationships. Every time you turn around something. No time to rest on your laurels. Life is work, and work is life.

You sound like an introvert. Be curios to know your mbti.
I may be way off base here: from someone who has faced what has seemed a life of more conflict and work than living, plus being an introvert with over 90% introversion, I think I can relate. 

Though I would like contact with people at times, there is just no energy left over for it. Even if there is energy the struggle of getting a concept or point across to another; as in your posts here concept which is broad and elementary to you, or perhaps even thinking about having to explain yourself; drains the desire to interact before you even get a chance. The lack of energy from draining the reserves is often much like depression.

I know there is more to it, but will leave it there.
With this said, unless I am way off base, I can understand why you have turned the raising over to the mother. Constant struggle of trying to get a point across to your child, and learning a way to connect is another drain on energy you don't have?
I would suggest, for them, to let them know you are their if they ever need you and prepare yourself to have the energy.

No matter the amount of money they had I have seen the old timers sitting back at home wishing they had done differently and someone who had a desire to come and visit.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

What is probably truth is I am probably introverted but through constant stimulus in life, I am not afforded that imperfection. Whether it be athletics, decent appearance, etc, I think people have come to expect things from me and not realize there is a struggle there. I was in sales for many years in my younger years and even now. It is easier on the phone but in person requires a real energy commitment. 

What is further frustrating is my character seems to come through to most as alpha. I would not say I am one to outright tell someone they are full of ****, but I will certainly insinuate that. It leads to an appearance of arrogance but it can feel like a NASA rocket scientist at a model rocket convention. You know you have the right answer but do you hold that in or.......? 

I seem to be put in leadership roles because I know what needs done and not afraid to speak my mind, but it can be VERY mentally draining. I do NOT always wish to be the smartest guy in the room, and I really like talking with people that know their stuff! I just don't like being talked down to. 

As an example, I recall doing some meat smoking last year and I cannot remember what was going on with the smoker but a guy started chatting about the feed motor, torque, amps, etc.... I was like "you have no idea who you are talking to".....lol Once we talked a bit, I realized he had some useful info and we had a good long chat. Enough that apparently everyone seemed to notice the "science moment" and no one else had a clue what we were talking about. 

I will say this. I self diagnosed myself in my late teens with social anxiety disorder and took countless meds to try to fix it. I never really want to be the speaker in the room, but I cannot stand listening to bull**** either. I think I still fight with this today. Its a mental prep to go to wally. I sort of have to "suit up" mentally. When I played football, that helmet gave me armor to go do what I do.


EDIT: just to add to that, social gatherings are most certainly mentally draining. I could never figure out what is so "exciting" about hanging out with all 500 family members. I see it as a time to "perform" and I need to say the right things at the right time. Work with social cues, etc. it did not help that my ex was a narc and insisted that I do things different. Say something else, etc. 

Its just very odd sort of like trapped between two people. I would guarantee 100% of people that meet me would just think I walk with my head up, like "i got this". I have taught myself well.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> What is probably truth is I am probably introverted but through constant stimulus in life, I am not afforded that imperfection. Whether it be athletics, decent appearance, etc, I think people have come to expect things from me and not realize there is a struggle there. I was in sales for many years in my younger years and even now. It is easier on the phone but in person requires a real energy commitment.
> 
> What is further frustrating is my character seems to come through to most as alpha. I would not say I am one to outright tell someone they are full of ****, but I will certainly insinuate that. It leads to an appearance of arrogance but it can feel like a NASA rocket scientist at a model rocket convention. You know you have the right answer but do you hold that in or.......?
> 
> ...


Introversion is only an imperfection from the point of a world geared to accommodate the crazy extroverts. That is the majority. :grin2: 
LOL.
You really should take the MBTI.
Sound like a young INTJ.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> While I appreciate the thoughts on the kids, there is just more to it and I am just tired. Tired of dealing with my ex over parenting styles. She is obviously the model parent and sought to limit my 50% right to my kids because I have rules, so I let her take over.
> 
> Let me offer a glimpse. I have said countless times that my teen son is not to be trusted. He makes bad decisions. In my home, he is awarded no privacy to his stuff. I am not one of those parents that will have some kid on crack and "I didn't even know". I wish I could trust him, but you have to earn that with me.
> 
> ...


Bob, you have been through so much and still expect yourself not to be affected. Working yourself to death will not solve your issues, running away from the emotional turmoil inside will not work. You need to get a good therapist and set out a plan of working through the hurts, emotions, etc that have affected your core.
Forget about women, forget about trying to be involved, you have to work on healing your inner man first. One day at a time.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Red, I took an online IQ test just now. Have no doubt 25 questions is not enough, and a bit drunk and tired, but got a 128. that was some Cambridge test I guess. my brain hurts now. I sure like those tests though. They sort of pin down how my brain works. It is friggin trickery though. Brain wants to work left to right, and top to bottom, but short cuts can be found.....Fun stuff.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Red!!! JEZUS!!! https://www.16personalities.com/intj-personality

I just burned off 30min of my life reading several pages that depict myself to a Tee!!! I have to admit, some of this was a bit emotional for me, seeing it in black in white (exactly how I like it). I think for just about every sentence, I have a good story, but I would end up with a 3 pager here and that would "not be an efficient use of time". It did spell out that I am already on my way to excusing a partner in life. I have always felt like I do "feel' things on a different level than others. I literally hate weddings and funerals because I cannot keep my feelers in check, and seem to have an empathetic grain in me. 

I think if someone reads what I wrote in this thread alone and compares to the link, it would be shocking. 

SOOO many things I found funny, but to name a few. 

1. "menial tasks" It mentions that I would seek to automate menial tasks. I am in CNC manufacturing. I look to automate everything. I literally hate the monotony of hitting the green button. Once things are dialed in, I am officially bored. This is time to drink beer and think about how I can do it better and faster. 

2. "dealing with employees and superiors"... So funny. I can put everyone on an equal field. I think I lost a job because I did not schmooze a CEO of one of the biggest aerospace companies you all know! Now if you cured cancer, I want to sit and talk with you, but I don't rub feet.......

3. "strategy" That is ingrained in my brain. "wing it" is not built into my head,yet I seem to have a friend that does this daily, but I think we secretly get along because he needs my strategic planning to solve his mess. 

4. "kiddos" I might break the mold but I am a sucker for affection. My first ex sucked at this, and we had boys. as cuddly as I built my kids, I was not prepared for the fuzzies of a little girl (ex's daughter). I don't think I can totally block my feelers with the kiddos. I think I have to hold them back (or think I do) to look at the common goal and sometimes put logic in the front. I seem to be good at seeing when a kid is tired and beyond reason. It is not a time to preach and reason. You just work through it, then I use my inappropriate questions like, "is there any chance you might be at least slightly tired????" In several ways, I might have the advantage to use logic over emotion here. I realized quick, my ex cannot do this. 

5. "friends" I do have a small circle but that is my own fault. I don't reach out. My best friend is actually not that smart but we have always worked good together. He is chill and calms me. I think he just accepts my brainy ways, but knows I am on speed dial. 

6. "professions" It is pretty funny.... People have asked over the years what I wish I would have done..... I have so many, but the crappy part is I could do them all, just not enough time!! I think most people would be baffled that I wanted to be both a neurosurgeon and fighter pilot. Really anything that requires careful calculation and precision, I can probably catch on. 

7. "leadership" I guess I follow this to the letter. I expect you to care about your work and perfect it. If you are here to "just get by", let me "just get your last paycheck". When I do halfass, it is never by choice. The mention of "freedom" is exactly me. I don't want employees being under the microscope, as long as we are working together and kicking ass. But if you want to test my authority, you will not find a diplomatically correct response from me, BUBBYE!

8. "relationships".....OUCH! I could not do stupid people. My ex would literally say "say something!!!"..... uh, I got nothing, because there is nothing I can say that will pull your emotional ass back to rational land! It was not worth the energy! In the end, she really wasn't. Biggest POS (but the prettiest) I have ever publicly dated. She was all about her 'feelings' and I just could not grasp any of it. All I know is her 'feelers' will go down with the sinking ship but while she was sobbing, I was building a new ship......bye!!

Else..... I seem to have the ability to let go when I drink. Probably why I am addicted. I can feel the bubble I live in. People love to be around me when I'm having a good time..... I like to laugh, especially with people who don't care or judge. This might be why I like speed and taking risks. I need that break away. Make no mistake though, if you think I will bungie jump without a first hand inspection of the devices, hell no! Teenager standing watch over "the rope"....no trust........

Did find it interesting about the fields of work. I think in every job in younger life, my employers seemed to just keep testing me with more and more things to do.... One of my favorites was being put in a position of "jack of all trades".... No clue what my role even was. Several weeks in they told me I need to hire someone to work with the 15,000 door locks they have at the facility. They sent the last guy to school for 2 weeks to learn how to build them. I asked for a day to look at the paperwork and see if I could do it. I showed them functioning locks, keyed to their liking in 4hrs. After that, the "can you do this?" started....... I should have said "can your pen put another zero on my paycheck????"


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> Red!!! JEZUS!!! https://www.16personalities.com/intj-personality
> 
> I just burned off 30min of my life reading several pages that depict myself to a Tee!!! I have to admit, some of this was a bit emotional for me, seeing it in black in white (exactly how I like it). I think for just about every sentence, I have a good story, but I would end up with a 3 pager here and that would "not be an efficient use of time". It did spell out that I am already on my way to excusing a partner in life. I have always felt like I do "feel' things on a different level than others. I literally hate weddings and funerals because I cannot keep my feelers in check, and seem to have an empathetic grain in me.
> 
> ...



LOL. Hope it helps.
Understanding ourself can sometimes help bring us acceptance and semblance of peace.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> I find it disturbing that you dont think about or miss your own kids.


Until you have enough character to be a parent, the rest doesn't really matter.

Yes, I am clearly saying you have a character problem.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

As this has gotten off the topic to focus on how bob doesn't do certain things for his kids. 
One thing about the "child" issue. Child being said tongue in cheek.

From the time I started bucking hay at 11yr old I bought or earned all my clothes, shoes, school supplies, vehicles, you name it. I did chores which paid for my food.
Moved out at 14yr old, stayed with grandparents who never told me what to do. Would give advice from their experience if they thought I was ****ing up. Did chores for my keep. Worked when I wasn't in school. Finished high school because it's what I CHOSE to do.
The most intelligent and knowledgeable man I've yet known, my grandfather, had a wife at 16, providing food shelter and clothing, and was a father before turning 18. They raised 5 children and supported them on his own, no welfare, foodstamps, hud. Ended up owning property in three different states. One of which he gave away.
Known many others the same way. Anyone who wants to lambast me go ahead. Truth and history prove the point.
We live in a cult of the child. Minimizing them, making them less than they are keeping them in perpetual adolescence. 
From experience no 14yr old should "need" their parents unless parents haven't taught them well.
It's utter bs so why has this become about condemning one for what has been standard for millennia and attempting to push current status quo.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

red oak said:


> As this has gotten off the topic to focus on how bob doesn't do certain things for his kids.
> One thing about the "child" issue. Child being said tongue in cheek.
> 
> From the time I started bucking hay at 11yr old I bought or earned all my clothes, shoes, school supplies, vehicles, you name it. I did chores which paid for my food.
> ...


Sorry, this is idiotic.

This isn't Little House on the Prairie


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Sorry, this is idiotic.


Why? What does a teenager really *need* a parent for?


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

red oak said:


> Why? What does a teenager really *need* a parent for?


My hope as the parent of now teenagers is the same hope I had when they were small. My hope is to use what influence I have to help them learn to build an awesome life. Not an ok one. Not one where they merely eat every day. But one where their talents can be used to make good decisions. One where they learn about the stuff that is not shoved directly in their face by circumstance. I am very please and relieved to know it works!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

red oak said:


> Why? What does a teenager really *need* a parent for?


Well, first off, to know - always - that their parent WANTS them and LOVES them and will FIGHT for them.

Growing up not believing any of those will set a child up for a lifetime of unhappiness and failed accomplishments. Because they will always feel they were never 'enough.' 

Kind of like how bob feels compared to his brother. Thus the feeling of inadequacy and discomfort going to concerts alone.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

red oak said:


> Why? What does a teenager really *need* a parent for?


I hope to God you do not have kids....


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> Well, first off, to know - always - that their parent WANTS them and LOVES them and will FIGHT for them.
> 
> Growing up not believing any of those will set a child up for a lifetime of unhappiness and failed accomplishments. Because they will always feel they were never 'enough.'
> 
> Kind of like how bob feels compared to his brother. Thus the feeling of inadequacy and discomfort going to concerts alone.


I read a book once that had a whole section on self esteem and the importance of instilling the self esteem of being. Who else can help instill that but parents?


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

Edit


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I hope to God you do not have kids....


Man.....You have been particularly harsh and judgmental for quite some time. Didn't know you had all the answers........


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Betrayedone said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > I hope to God you do not have kids....
> ...


 You're absolutely right. Because everyone knows that the really good parents kick their kids out at 14 to make it on their own.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

@bobsmith learning to be by yourself/alone just takes time. 
It's just a little harder when one has gotten used to having someone special to spend time with.


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## red oak (Oct 26, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> You're absolutely right. Because everyone knows that the really good parents kick their kids out at 14 to make it on their own.


Last reply our of respect for bob.
My statement never said to kick them out. Overall theme is make them earn their own way, which doesn't have to mean kicking them out, but if it is their choice to live their own life as in my grandfathers, many others I know, and myself, do a good enough job as parent early they know how to look out for themselves. 
Geez. Take a chill pill.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> I think what sets in is still depression and sadness but I have no desire to change it. To maintain my brain, I just work. I work 7 days/week. Because I am self employed, sometimes I work all night, take a nap at 6-7am, and go back to doing something. I have lots of business type ventures I am working on. Some days I am motivated to obtain my high goals, some I just want to make enough to keep things paid for and carry on. I have a dog. I might lose it if I didn't have her. She is most of the interaction I get.


It sounds like you're filling your time with work to keep your mind off being alone. That's a bit like self-medicating to get around the issue. It's probably not going to bring you the internal satisfaction you need. You might be chasing the wrong goal to be happy.

I can relate to feeling exhausted being around people or socializing, but there are lots of ways to be connected to the world without having that one-on-one pressure. Just being around other people doing a common goal is a good way to feel connected. For example, volunteer at a dog shelter since you like dogs. You won't have to interact with people more than you want to. You can just walk the dogs, wash them, whatever. You get to be around other people and can socialize with them if you want, or do your own thing. 

One thing that will make it hard is that you sound a bit rigid in your expectations for other people. I don't think there's anything wrong in the high standards you desire, but most people won't have the same standards. My advice here is to understand that they may have other strengths even if they don't meet your standards. For example, someone who is just at work to collect a paycheck may instead be passionate about volunteering at nursing homes. You don't have to like everyone, but try not to think so negatively about people who don't meet your standards. Otherwise, you may think the world is full of bad people rather than the world is full of all different kinds of people, each of whom have their own strengths to offer.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Well...not to divert the argument but Red I guess gave me something to chew on I guess with this personality thing. I guess as maybe being a textbook INTJ, it sort of gets amusing reading about it. Lots of talk about IQ and maybe those that want to inflate themselves having that personality. While I find it interesting, I feel I can confidently say you cannot fit every person into 1 of 16 boxes and having a high IQ is like having 4 new race tires for a car. Without wheels and a car to put them on, those tires don't do much. 

Being the true analytical type, it is certainly interesting to sort through the supposed traits and I guess gives me something to digest. I would say there are lots of things that are pretty much dead on, and not things just trying to agree with it, but I have actually typed here before. I am always planning way into the future and I work out details so when I enact "my plan", everything goes together like a clock. 

I literally have always had women tell me I am very hard to read. I apparently intimidate others with my look, but I am just working out logic in my head. Guys don't seem to give me the same feedback but I guess I gain approval through them reaching out to answer questions. 

In poking around online, it seems like people are quick to say "I am an INTJ", in which it almost seems like they are proud of it! Hell, I consider it a curse. I have literally told people I drink to turn off my brain and that is truth. I live with a calculator in my hand and I know weird things but they are most certainly important facts, just not important to people that just live inside the fish bowl. 

I have apparently adapted to the world and have some social skills but it was interesting that the writings were dead on that it is literally "work" for me to be in a social setting and I have to mentally prepare for that. I literally feel exhausted after gathers. I think in a relationship, I can only wear that cloak so long and it becomes evident I have deficiencies or at least I don't wish to be around people all the time. 

To be right honest and frank, and sound like a dik, my brain is focused on solving real world problems I watch as people hover around a TV in the evening and "get dumb" watching pointless shows. I can certainly watch them too, but my brain wanders into "I am not learning anything" area. I see the world as 98% of people just live in it, and 2% of the people actually build it. It is not a good mentality to have. I sometimes see art as "gay", but it also simply amazes me to realize what other brains can do. I do NOT have an artistic mind really, but I can look at something and figure out how to duplicate it. People that can grab a chainsaw and carve a stump into a masterpiece!!! I am always conflicted because though those people probably cannot help save the world, they kind of are! Because they provide pleasure and peace, even to my mind! 

Who hasn't watched Bob Ross paint? While I have no desire to do it and see it as a waste of time and mental space, I will absolutely sit and watch all 45min of it and enjoy it all! 

As many here have noticed, my brain is FULL of contradictions. Not on purpose, but my reasoning and logic seems to always be weighing pros and cons. maybe I am just pecking out a little mental venting here but I know when I open up to people about what is really in my head, I can literally see their mental exhaustion. I guess it is good that I have learned that social ability to read people. I typically know when I speak over someone's head and I try to pull it back, but at the same time it's like when someone asks me how much HP this engine can make. My typical response is "do you want the grade school answer or the NASA answer?" But at the end of the day, nearly everyone around me makes more money than me. I have BIG ideas that can not only work, they can change lives, but I seem to mostly keep it in. 

I have been self employed for most of my life. Employers quickly figure out that I can do things and exploit that, but then I am smart enough to see it and either quit or get bored and get pushed out. I realize that happiness for me will probably come from total success of one of the many ideas I have. 

I think in many ways, I mirror the mentality of Tesla. The guy had so many ideas and needed someone to handle the commercialization FOR him. He died bitter and broke because people just wanted to take advantage of him. He was arrogant but only because he knew things other didn't know. He could not communicate them. 

OK, time to go jogging. I need to turn it off for a bit.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

bob, one of my best friends was a Mensa member. He died suddenly last year. But he could have been your double, except that he had a wonderful loving wife who put up with all his quirks for being so 'smarter than everyone.' So I get it. 

But I know stuff. And you are in a deep depression. I get it. You're too smart to waste time on psychologists and psychiatrists. But in the meantime, the NORMAL part of your brain still needs admiration, respect, desire, choice. And you're not getting it. So you're depressed.

As smart as you are, you can't fix psych stuff. You just can't.

Until you lower yourself to the level of accepting that you will benefit from some professional help, you're going to continue to drink yourself silly, be afraid to go out in crowds, and wallow in self-pity. Get some help.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I appreciate your description of your FOO. IMO: some of your behavior is still stuck in the expectations of your youth. Think someone recommended David Burns' "Feeling Good" (the book and not the summary) and I think you would get a lot out of it because you like to know what and why and when, etc. Read all the way to the end, as it will help you in areas that you are not likely to excel.

My guess is your IQ is higher than you have thought--if it were tested in specific testing settings. This can be a curse and a blessing. Small talk is likely an anathema to you. Your planning and pre-planning can only control so much of the environment. People may generally be unreliable and standards vary. Your logic so out-weighs your emotions that relationships may often be wearying. Keeping your brain busy negates voids that might let concerns slip in.

Sometimes people (me and you?) don't start something--especially if they don't think they are good at it--because then they cannot fail. Problem is that they don't strengthen their weaker skills. Relationships may fall under this category.

Wondering if you don't have enough anxiety in unfamiliar situations--especially social ones--to interfere with possible pleasure? Also wondering if you don't have some OCD--more likely personality traits? 

Again, still not having read your old threads, I'm thinking you would be comfortable with the right folks. Bet you would be lost without your dog. Only you can decide how much effort you want to expend to moderate some facets of your life. Good luck too.


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## Trying To Understand (Feb 28, 2019)

Bro, take this for what it's worth. But I've read all your posts and I know guys who are very similar to you who have been through similar tough situations. I've been there too. I'm very masculine as you describe, very into productivity and results. High standards. 

You're out of touch with you're heart. I don't mean that in just a touchy feely way. I mean your heart as your core, and what makes you feel at peace.

You're trying to get peace. You want to feel at peace but you're doing it in a half assed way. I say that with respect and empathy for you. You keep saying how you've closed yourself off to emotions and getting too close to anyone. Your life is going to keep feeling like it sucks until you snap out of that delusion. Because that's exactly what it is, a delusion.

You're unbalanced. That's why you can't feel at ease being alone. That's why you still care so much about what other people think, like whether you're at a concert alone. Social anxiety, etc. 

All head/no heart, all macho loses every time. The sad reality is that us manly men often don't realize it until it's too late. Don't be one of those guys. 

You seem to have made yourself afraid of being vulnerable by how you reacted to your divorce. 

So many men never graduate to a higher level of existence because they stay stuck on the plane you're on right now. You have a lot of stories and scripts in your mind that are enslaving you and you don't see it as much as you think you do. 

You might truly be one of those guys that doesn't need a committed, long term relationship. But you'll never be at peace with that until you work through the pain you're hiding. Let go of the stories you're telling yourself about why you are the way you are. Reconnect with your kids. Hug your niece and mean it. You're running from your heart and you'll suffer until you own it like a man. 

A good, kick ass counselor would likely be be very helpful. It takes a while to find a good one. You're in pain, man, but you've gotten real good at not feeling it. Hypermasculine, financially successful men are very good at not feeling and owning their own pain. Men are particularly good at literally building a wall around their hearts and calling it masculinity. It's actually a form of immaturity. 

Please don't be one of those men sobbing on their death bed, as the full weight of their choices and emotional avoidance in life finally strikes them and they realize how much they've missed while they were sitting aloof in their mental ivory tower filled with BBQ grills and Italian sports cars.

Because I've seen that. I knew a man who was very aloof with his kids, never present, very guarded, very wealthy with multiple businesses, worked 70 hour weeks, took high end vacations, was divorced twice... The list goes on. 
He was in his 70s when his mind started to splinter, and he died before 80. Close to death, he was literally sobbing and yelling how sorry he was to his kids and ex wives, asking them to forgive him as he felt the combined weight of all the pain and lost opportunities for love. 

It's not manly. In the end, that's just heartbreaking.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One thing you might want to consider is to take some adult continuing education courses at the community college for things that interest you. You could do something hands on--like woodworking, cooking, etc.--or something that is more intellectual--like math, science, history, etc. This would satisfy your need to learn and you'd be in a casual environment with people who shared that interest. Even if you didn't socially interact with anyone, just being surrounded by people will make you feel more connected.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I am trying to be open minded with stuff like this. Like with woodworking, I could almost be considered a master carpenter and ran a commercial wood shop, so I am not sure that would be all that exciting. 

I am trying to find a way to communicate non-arrogantly that I tend to do better in a role where I can use my knowledge to help others. I gravitate towards this naturally and literally tell people I get excited when something breaks, especially something complicated. 

It might be rewarding to help teens learn about engines or mechanicals, but its not like I want to teach a class, just assist.... I don't know, just thinking out load here.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look into judging science fairs. My husband, who is also a genius, has been doing that for a good 20 years. He is also an award-winning salesman, so he has the personality that means everyone loves to be around him, and they learn from him, but maybe you could aspire to that.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

bobsmith said:


> I am trying to find a way to communicate non-arrogantly that I tend to do better in a role where I can use my knowledge to help others. I gravitate towards this naturally and literally tell people I get excited when something breaks, especially something complicated.


I can totally understand that. It happens to me, too. It's the feeling of "Oooo! A mystery to solve!" along with the satisfaction of getting things working again.

Have you ever tried tabletop gaming? If you don't know what it is, it's typically complex strategy games. If you've heard of Dungeons&Dragons, it's along that genre. But there are all different kinds of games that have all different kinds of ways to play. Some are fantasy, some are historical, some are in space, etc. Some games you make your own soldiers and tanks to wage war against other player's armies. Some games are done with trading cards. Different games have different ways of playing. 

If you haven't heard of tabletop gaming, you might think it's just a bunch of silly kids games like Monopoly, but it's not like that. While some kids play them, mostly it's a bunch of adults of all ages. They are games, but they involve a lot of strategy and having to know a lot about the stats of the various parts of the game. For what you've described about yourself, you would probably be very good at these games. They involve a lot of figuring out strategies on the fly, and you need to have an extensive knowledge of the game mechanics. There are often public game nights you can join and play with whoever else shows up. If you have any comic book-type stores in your city, they will likely host them. It might be worth going to one of the public game nights to see if you'd find that interesting.

One good thing is that it's often a lot of nerdy introverts who show up, so socializing is not the point. It happens a lot, but the focus is more about the game rather than making small talk. If you didn't feel like talking to anyone, no one would really care all that much. But if you wanted to talk about something like the nuances of whether strategy X or Y is better against enemy Z, you could have endless conversations about that.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

There are activities that you and your dog can do together. Is she a large breed? You could both benefit from walking/jogging. Get her involved in agility. Do you like camping or hiking? You guys could both do that, once it gets nicer out where you are. 

And as for the people concerned about you, I agree with them. It sounds like you have some clinical depression and are dealing with a lot. I also agree with the concerns about not being interested in seeing your children. I'm really sorry that you're going through so much; I hope there's light for you soon.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Fly ball!


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Yes, I do jog with my dog, but weather has been super cold and I hate gyms. My dog is very well trained...Never been leashed for fenced. She goes just about everywhere with me. I do get a kick out of our small town. We have a strict leash law in town but they don't mess with her. We also jog right by them...lol I guess I could help train dogs but that takes real dedication and more training for the owners than the dogs. 

Funny OT story, I was approached by a military service dog trainer some time back that wanted to know who trained my dog. I told him I did, and he told me I missed my calling because Dobies are not easy dogs to align with an owner. People say they are very smart and trainable but they are smart enough to decide if they want to listen. Breaking them of that and their instinctive prey drive is tricky. They are sensitive and usually just a touch will snap them out of their mind set.


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