# Vanilla vs Kinky



## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

First of all, thank you for reading this and participating. This seems like a common subject, but I become disconnected when reading other solutions because I feel all problems are unique. I'll try to make this easy to read and refer to.

THE PROBLEM - Sex with my wife is boring and vanilla.

MY BACKGROUND - I have been married twice before. I am very sexual. I will try anything, but I have my boundaries on things that I have tried and didn't like. I have been with a total of 9 women in my life (intimately). I do love kinky sex, but I appreciate the slow romantic sex as well. I am up for quickies as well as teasing all day. I appreciate sex between husband and wife and have no desire for anything too wild that involves more than us.
1st WIFE (10 years). When it comes to sex, my first wife was willing to try most things first. Looking back, she really did try. Sex was not an issue, nor why we divorced. We had communication issues and grew apart.
2nd WIFE (5 years). When it came to sex, she was selfish. She loved to receive but hated to give. We split ultimately because she cheated on me.
3rd AND CURRENT (LAST) WIFE (1 Year). When it comes to sex, she is very vanilla. Almost like a dead weight. 

MY DESIRES - I want to have excitement in our intimacy. Even if it is vanilla sex, but I get teased and flirted with all day long. I would be open to anything but what we have.

CURRENT SITUATION - When we first became intimate, things were really bad. She would never initiate, it was always on her back, and she was dead weight. I couldn't get her to use her hands or reposition. It was literally like using a doll. After some time, she has improved a little. She now moves a little when I nudge her (confused on what to do, but she does move) and we have expanded our positions to on her back and doggie style. Recently, she has straddled me. she gets confused on what to do though. Foreplay is non-existent, and oral play is done by me..... in fact, I usually have to finish myself if I am in a kinky mood (a non, two-position, mood).

WHAT PROBLEM IT IS CREATING - when I want her to go down on me, use her hand, or to be adventurous, I get little to zero response. I have developed lower self-esteem because of it. I have concentrated on my body by making sure I brush my teeth, clean all my body with high-end cologne soap, manscape, and I wear her favorite cologne (which is not a problem). I do this to maybe ignite a spark of passion or imagination. nothing.... I try to be romantic by coming up behind her and holding her, random slow dances, slow soft kisses, neck kisses, back rubs, feet rubs, candlelight with music..... I get a response, but nothing imaginative, nor spontaneous.... It usually ends with me going down on her. I feel ugly and insufficient and it's hard to overcome at times.

WHAT I HAVE TRIED - I have talked to her in a supporting way. This is hard because she hates talking about sex. I mention roleplay ideas to spark a conversation, I encourage her by telling her how good it feels when she concentrates on me, I tell her she looks sexy, amazing, and hot regularly (where I get a butt shake out of it), I mention suggestions of hearing her orgasm (that has improved), I ask her straight out what her fantasies are.... I have tried direct and indirect. I usually get a slight acknowledgment and a change of subject in response. 

EXAMPLES - I do enjoy foreplay and I usually am ready to go (intercourse) after receiving some attention. Usually, we get intimate and I try to initiate her using her hands or mouth on me, but it goes nowhere fast. I usually will try to show her by slowly going down on her. She enjoys it and I enjoy it. This is our one sexual connection. I make her go to the point where she doesn't move and every part of her body is sensitive..... and it's over. I can forget about anything happening for the next few days.... Sometimes months.... There are times we have normal sex, but it is very vanilla and predictable. It is not my favorite because it seems functional... mechanical..... Dutiful.

I am a very patient person and I enjoy my wife. I love the way she looks, smells, and tastes. I love her even more as a person and I love how much she loves me. The problem only lies in the bedroom. She is loving and damn near perfect outside of it. I understood marrying her that she may not change.... She is worth that and more.... But I don't want to give up on our possible intimacy.

Sex is not a priority for her. If I was a reality show, I would get it every night. That makes me wonder if it's me. 

THEORIES - 1- In an effort to stay positive, I feel that her previous marriage (17years) was an indication of what sex was like. Mechanical and not exciting. In fact, she didn't like oral sex (on herself) until I went down for the first time. Now, this is the usual way she goes I know she loves it because she shows me that she loves it. So if this is the truth, persistence and patience will overcome (maybe some encouraging words from this forum)

2 - She doesn't like kinky sex because she has never been introduced to it and it is outside of her comfort zone. I have asked her if she has done anything kinky before..... Deer in the headlights....

3 - It's me.... She loves me but doesn't find me physically attractive in one of 2 ways. I am a bigger guy. This I have recently worked to change with success. I have lost 50lbs in the last 6 months from exercise and lifestyle dietary changes. I want to look good for my wife and I hope this works.... The other is by means of a previous marriage. I know this out of experience, it was hard to be with other women after my first wife. I was so used to her that I literally felt like I was cheating on her. that took a few years to shake off. It carried over to the beginning of my second marriage.

FINAL - So divorce is not an option for me. I need to find a way to either bring my sexual interest down via hobbies or work, or I need to be patient and find a way to introduce her to things where she may like them (or a little of both). We haven't fought over sex (we rarely fight), but I am having a hard time grasping this. My wife is mine, to be exclusive with and explore with. She is my excitement, my world, the one I love, and the one I fantasize over.... I just wish she would express that to me.


Suggestions? Thoughts?


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Did you not have sex before you decided to get married?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

uphillbattle said:


> Did you not have sex before you decided to get married?


I was just thinking that myself.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

First, you are over-thinking this. Second why did you marry her if kinky sex was so important to you and she wasn't prior to marriage? 

Congratulations on loosing all that weight. Is this about your changing and feeling more sexy and she hasn't upped her game in response to your self changes? It kind of sounds like since the start of your 1 year 3rd marriage you have been doing some changes in your life. It sounds like she hasn't been making similar changes to yours and you are becoming unhappy about that. 

It should like you have in your bed the same woman you married, unfortunately there is a different person on the other side of your wife's bed and you want her to change. You really can't force her to change. Only she can change herself and then only if she wants to changes. That is your problem. What was acceptable is not any more and the two of you are growing apart because you are changing.

You sound like an ideal candidate for either some marriage counseling with a sex therapist. Building communications with your wife is important. Finding out what she wants sexually and from other aspects of your marriage is also critical. 

Good luck.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

uphillbattle said:


> Did you not have sex before you decided to get married?


he posted


> When we first became intimate, things were really bad. She would never initiate, it was always on her back, and she was dead weight. I couldn't get her to use her hands or reposition. It was literally like using a doll. After some time, she has improved a little.


So he either didn't have sex prior to marrying her............which is just his fault (or he could at least have discussed it with her prior to marriage)........or he married her anyway (which again is his mistake and he will now be paying for it one way or another.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> Did you not have sex before you decided to get married?


We did... but she exceeds everything else. I know that it may not change, but I can get insight and be hopeful.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ok I don’t know how much I can help here but I’ll do what I can.

do you ever use toys?

straddling a bigger guy can make it really hard to be effective. I can understand the ‘desire’ to have her on top but unless you have a platform or something there isn’t an easy way get leverage.

How big is she? Me and my husband are older and larger so we often have to be creative.

do you have a wedge. Honestly missionary doesn’t do a lot for many women.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ordregguy said:


> We did... *but she exceeds everything else*.


Yes you can be hopeful, but what does it mean she exceeds everything else. Are you saying that even though you married a sexually unresponsive woman, in other areas of your relationship she exceeds your expectations?

If that is the case, you need to be thankful for what she is doing. You chose her and she is exceeding your expectations.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I mean, she's doing what she's comfortable with. My only suggestion is ask her if she might try sitting up on top if you were in a comfortable cushy armchair so she could hold onto the back. It's honestly pretty much as comfortable as missionary that way and she will still be up in your face if she's into kissing. Her knees simply may not tolerate it though. But it's easier on them than doing it with nothing to hold yourself up with. 

I guess my take on it is if a woman hasn't experimented around when they're young before marriage, then probably just not that much interest in experimenting or they already would have. Of course, maybe she did and decided what she does and doesn't like. Good luck.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> First, you are over-thinking this. Second why did you marry her if kinky sex was so important to you and she wasn't prior to marriage?
> 
> Congratulations on loosing all that weight. Is this about your changing and feeling more sexy and she hasn't upped her game in response to your self changes? It kind of sounds like since the start of your 1 year 3rd marriage you have been doing some changes in your life. It sounds like she hasn't been making similar changes to yours and you are becoming unhappy about that.
> 
> ...


Like I said, every situation is different. I knew coming into this marriage that sex may be lower in my priorities. I am willing to meet her in the middle (tone it down some on my side). Things have improved (I am not saying that they are not) and I am blissfully happy other than the intimacy. 

I am trying to gauge what she wants in intimacy, but she is uncomfortable about sharing her views. You could be right, it may end up in sex counseling before too long. I think I was looking for suggestions. I am not forcing her to change. She has shown moments of kinky interest with a smile when I mention certain situations and certain roleplays, but then she doesn't follow through, nor does she respond when I try to initiate it. It is like she is........embarrassed by the subject. 

BTW... Overthinking is what I do a lot of lol


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> Yes you can be hopeful, but what does it mean she exceeds everything else. Are you saying that even though you married a sexually unresponsive woman, in other areas of your relationship she exceeds your expectations?
> 
> If that is the case, you need to be thankful for what she is doing. You chose her and she is exceeding your expectations.


Actually, That is exactly what I mean. She is truly an amazing woman. I am extremely thankful for everything she does. It's hard though... When you fantasize about your wife and you should be living out at least 10% of those fantasies. If I was given a choice of no sex and be with her or lots of sex and be without her.... I would take no sex. I keep hearing in the back of my mind "that is giving up. Don't give up on her". And that is why I wrote this. Maybe there is something I haven't considered or tried.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean, she's doing what she's comfortable with. My only suggestion is ask her if she might try sitting up on top if you were in a comfortable cushy armchair so she could hold onto the back. It's honestly pretty much as comfortable as missionary that way and she will still be up in your face if she's into kissing. Her knees simply may not tolerate it though. But it's easier on them than doing it with nothing to hold yourself up with.
> 
> I guess my take on it is if a woman hasn't experimented around when they're young before marriage, then probably just not that much interest in experimenting or they already would have. Of course, maybe she did and decided what she does and doesn't like. Good luck.


 I appreciate the response. I thought about the experimentation part as well. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not everyone thinks the same. I want to explore with my wife. I do feel that her previous marriage was humdrum. He was the type that just got it when he needed it. I want us to both chase after each other and want to please each other. Sometimes I wonder if she knows how..... Hence the post asking for thoughts.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

I would say a sex therapist but from the way you describe her I would doubt she would open up to someone else about it, but it's worth a try. All I can think is maybe sitting down and asking her if she is willing to try to work in the direction you are hoping for then asking her what a good starting point would be, then go slow from there. Also be sure that she knows that it's not all or nothing, maybe she is worried that you are not going to stop pushing until you have her hanging upside-down from the chandelier.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok I don’t know how much I can help here but I’ll do what I can.
> 
> do you ever use toys?
> 
> ...


We have her toys... Which I am really unsure if she uses. Her using them doesn't bother me.... actually, come to think of it, there have been a few times we have used toys on her during sex. It was a good change up.... Maybe that is the doorway. Trouble is getting her to talk about it. Maybe I will try again. Thank you...

As far as position..... I am not really heavy, but enough to interfere in some positions (not for long hopefully), She is thick and not athletic... Which I am fine with. I don't expect perfection... trying means a lot to me. Or reposition to attempt to try. 

I've seen the wedge, yes... Does it work well? Do you think buying things is a good approach or buying it together?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> I appreciate the response. I thought about the experimentation part as well. Sometimes it's hard to remember that not everyone thinks the same. I want to explore with my wife. I do feel that her previous marriage was humdrum. He was the type that just got it when he needed it. I want us to both chase after each other and want to please each other. Sometimes I wonder if she knows how..... Hence the post asking for thoughts.


Not all people are sexually explorative or place much priority on sex. If they don't when young, I wouldn't expect them to take that up when older. It's not that she doesn't know how. If very much interest in exploring had ever been there, she'd know how by now! It's not rocket science.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

uphillbattle said:


> I would say a sex therapist but from the way you describe her I would doubt she would open up to someone else about it, but it's worth a try. All I can think is maybe sitting down and asking her if she is willing to try to work in the direction you are hoping for then asking her what a good starting point would be, then go slow from there. Also be sure that she knows that it's not all or nothing, maybe she is worried that you are not going to stop pushing until you have her hanging upside-down from the chandelier.


Great advice! No... I don't think she would be open to a therapist unless our marriage was on the rocks.. And it's not. Yeah, I have talked to her. I think your point is well taken. Baby steps and patience. It's not like I am NOT getting any.... I just want to add some excitement. Thank you


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ordregguy said:


> We have her toys... Which I am really unsure if she uses. Her using them doesn't bother me.... actually, come to think of it, there have been a few times we have used toys on her during sex. It was a good change up.... Maybe that is the doorway. Trouble is getting her to talk about it. Maybe I will try again. Thank you...
> 
> As far as position..... I am not really heavy, but enough to interfere in some positions (not for long hopefully), She is thick and not athletic... Which I am fine with. I don't expect perfection... trying means a lot to me. Or reposition to attempt to try.
> 
> I've seen the wedge, yes... Does it work well? Do you think buying things is a good approach or buying it together?


I think toys during is good. 
I like the wedge or my pelvis tilted like with my feet up on shoulders.

as far as buying with or without her..
Since she has allowed toys before but doesn’t like to talk about it. I would buy them without her.

I personally like the we vibe but only in certain positions. I also don’t really like the toys solo.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

It's a communication problem, if she's unwilling to talk about sex for some reason. Does she find the idea embarrassing? Is she self-conscious? Do you frame requests to talk about sex as blaming her and trying to convince her to change? Do you give her the impression you wouldn't handle criticism very well, and she's afraid to tell you what you do doesn't do it for her? Is she genuinely still quite naïve about sex and needs some education? Is she stuck in a mindset that sex is a taboo subject?

You just have to push through all that, whatever it is, and have a frank conversation about sex with her. A non-blaming, non-embarrassing conversation in which she feels comfortable expressing herself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Wedge I find is more for me than her.

I would recommend working on one thing at a time instead of everything at once. Pick one thing you want her to do that is within her wheelhouse and just work on that.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> It's a communication problem, if she's unwilling to talk about sex for some reason. Does she find the idea embarrassing? Is she self-conscious? Do you frame requests to talk about sex as blaming her and trying to convince her to change? Do you give her the impression you wouldn't handle criticism very well, and she's afraid to tell you what you do doesn't do it for her? Is she genuinely still quite naïve about sex and needs some education? Is she stuck in a mindset that sex is a taboo subject?
> 
> You just have to push through all that, whatever it is, and have a frank conversation about sex with her. A non-blaming, non-embarrassing conversation in which she feels comfortable expressing herself.


Talking about sex has always been taboo in her family... Growing up and in her previous marriage. I do try to be compassionate and approachable. I don't blame, I accept, take it in, and look for an opportunity to talk about it if it still bothers me. I approach it as something I would like to see. No feelings are hurt, we don't argue, and she doesn't get upset. She just changes the subject. she will listen, say ok, then start talking about something totally unrelated. I have brought the conversation back at times. You can tell that she hates talking about sex though.

There may be some self conscious thoughts there. I'm not completely sure.

I appreciate the advice. I am patient.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Wedge I find is more for me than her.
> 
> I would recommend working on one thing at a time instead of everything at once. Pick one thing you want her to do that is within her wheelhouse and just work on that.


Ok, that's good advice. I'd like to think that I don't pressure her. I definitely do not want to pressure her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> Ok, that's good advice. I'd like to think that I don't pressure her. I definitely do not want to pressure her.


It’s not a matter of pressure, or rather I wouldn’t put it that way.

Now I assume you want her to do things that make it better for you. Your original post kind of read like you wanted her to enjoy what you enjoy. That’s a much bigger ask. It’s much easier to not worry about it and know she’s doing something for you because she loves you and wants to please you.

Once I took up this kind of mentality I found her finding new things on her own.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> It's a communication problem, if she's unwilling to talk about sex for some reason. Does she find the idea embarrassing? Is she self-conscious? Do you frame requests to talk about sex as blaming her and trying to convince her to change? Do you give her the impression you wouldn't handle criticism very well, and she's afraid to tell you what you do doesn't do it for her? Is she genuinely still quite naïve about sex and needs some education? Is she stuck in a mindset that sex is a taboo subject?
> 
> You just have to push through all that, whatever it is, and have a frank conversation about sex with her. A non-blaming, non-embarrassing conversation in which she feels comfortable expressing herself.


I recommend talking about sex when you're NOT in bed trying to have it!


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It’s not a matter of pressure, or rather I wouldn’t put it that way.
> 
> Now I assume you want her to do things that make it better for you. Your original post kind of read like you wanted her to enjoy what you enjoy. That’s a much bigger ask. It’s much easier to not worry about it and know she’s doing something for you because she loves you and wants to please you.
> 
> Once I took up this kind of mentality I found her finding new things on her own.


Well, yeah... I think so. There are countless times she has gone (by me going down) and I am left waiting. That waiting could last months. I would say I would like to get her more interested in sex so that happens less. Does that make sense? So if she is more interested, her imagination expands (even if it's candlelight and romantic stuff). So yeah... For me. But for her as well. If she expresses her fantasies to me that she wishes to try something or see something happen, that would be a step in the right direction. It would be adding excitement to a sex life that is just functional


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I recommend talking about sex when you're NOT in bed trying to have it!


Yeah. I hear ya. I have brought it up in the car and other places. Maybe I should pay attention to the conversation leading ahead of it. I will pay more attention.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> I think toys during is good.
> I like the wedge or my pelvis tilted like with my feet up on shoulders.
> 
> as far as buying with or without her..
> ...


I have seen the we vibe... Considered it as well. Seems like the wedge is a good idea. It seems like it would be easier to hit "the spot". Lol Do you agree with that? If so, maybe it will crack the door for her. I know I hit it doggie... Maybe that is why she has expanded her position acceptance list (to 2 lol) .

I understand the solo part. I really don't like doing anything solo. I'd rather her do it. It's more exciting... for me anyway


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> Well, yeah... I think so. There are countless times she has gone (by me going down) and I am left waiting. That waiting could last months. I would say I would like to get her more interested in sex so that happens less. Does that make sense? So if she is more interested, her imagination expands (even if it's candlelight and romantic stuff). So yeah... For me. But for her as well. If she expresses her fantasies to me that she wishes to try something or see something happen, that would be a step in the right direction. It would be adding excitement to a sex life that is just functional


Hmm.

Maybe it would help if you had some examples of what you want her to do that she’s not doing.

I straight up tell my wife and either she does it or not. Reacting to any attempt with enthusiasm is pretty critical I think.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Hmm.
> 
> Maybe it would help if you had some examples of what you want her to do that she’s not doing.
> 
> I straight up tell my wife and either she does it or not. Reacting to any attempt with enthusiasm is pretty critical I think.


Enthusiasm is definitely a plus.... However, I would be happy with some interest at times. There have been many times when we cuddle after I finish her and she will ask "what about you?" Sometimes I am blunt and say "well, that is up to you". Other times I don't want her to feel like I am forcing her to and I reinforce how much I truly enjoyed making her go (in hopes of getting at least a handjob in the future {no luck}). She likes for me to tell her what to do, but won't do them when I do. I will suggest a hand job and she will laugh and say not now (too busy, daylight, kids coming, on period... etc...). There are times that she does do something as simple as a hand job, but she looks bored out of her mind. That's a turn on lol. I have mentioned that everything is fun with enthusiasm and I try to show her as well. But she has either no interest or is not sure how. Yeah... Something simple like showing me that she loves pleasing me would be a huge, huge, plus.....

I get that not everyone is into oral (like me, lol). I don't pressure her into it. I figure if she wants to, she will. Something like foreplay though is pretty basic and helpful in intimacy (foreplay being anything from kissing to touching, to hand jobs.). like I said, she may not understand


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> Yeah. I hear ya. I have brought it up in the car and other places. Maybe I should pay attention to the conversation leading ahead of it. I will pay more attention.


Just realize that a LOT of women just don't initiate sex or like talking about it that much, but you have to at least try to talk about it. I mean, if she's not the type to come climb up on you to kiss you when you get home, she's probably also not going to come on to you like a porn actress is paid to do. Some women initiate, but you'd know by now if that was anything she's going to do. 

Does she ever just sit on your lap or almost on top of you watching tv or anything? If so, you can just slyly suggest, Why don't you climb on up here and get her facing you on top of you and start something. Seriously, don't expect her to be aggressive initiating. 

If she's leaving you after you got her off or did your best, then let her know you are not "at a good stopping point" and gently guide her back to finish something. Then over a conversation while NOT in bed sometime, let her know how men can't just be gotten excited and then left to ache.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just realize that a LOT of women just don't initiate sex or like talking about it that much, but you have to at least try to talk about it. I mean, if she's not the type to come climb up on you to kiss you when you get home, she's probably also not going to come on to you like a porn actress is paid to do. Some women initiate, but you'd know by now if that was anything she's going to do.
> 
> Does she ever just sit on your lap or almost on top of you watching tv or anything? If so, you can just slyly suggest, Why don't you climb on up here and get her facing you on top of you and start something. Seriously, don't expect her to be aggressive initiating.
> 
> If she's leaving you after you got her off or did your best, then let her know you are not "at a good stopping point" and gently guide her back to finish something. Then over a conversation while NOT in bed some time, let her know how men can't just be gotten excited and then left to ache.


Wow! some things you said there struck home. She has climbed on top of me.... I will try that. Maybe I am reading the signs wrong. 

I like your wording with the stopping point... I will try that. I have thought about not taking her all the way and asking for some, but she has flat out told me that she hates that (crash and burn on that one). Hmmm, you have given me something to think about.

Yeah, I don't think she truly understands how blue balls hurt... especially over time lol. of course, I don't really expect her to, but yeah, maybe I should tell her and be away from the bed when I do. Thank you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> There have been many times when we cuddle after I finish her and she will ask "what about you?" Sometimes I am blunt and say "well, that is up to you". Other times I don't want her to feel like I am forcing her to and I reinforce how much I truly enjoyed making her go (in hopes of getting at least a handjob in the future {no luck}).


Maybe she wants you to just take charge?

If you tell her what to do will she do it? If my wife has hers then I tell or move her into the positions I want. If I want her to say, dig her nails into my back I just tell her straight up. So I just tell her what I want and normally she responds to that. If I want her to look at me I tell her or grab her face; etc…

It doesn’t sound like she ever takes charge herself?


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Maybe she wants you to just take charge?
> 
> If you tell her what to do will she do it? If my wife has hers then I tell or move her into the positions I want. If I want her to say, dig her nails into my back I just tell her straight up. So I just tell her what I want and normally she responds to that. If I want her to look at me I tell her or grab her face; etc…
> 
> It doesn’t sound like she ever takes charge herself?


No she doesn't ever take charge. Maybe you are right. I would like for her to be more aggressive... Maybe meeting her in the middle is telling her and encouraging her during intimacy.... Something to try maybe.


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## fluffycoco (May 29, 2021)

guess hersso mature and educated, all of h live is only about kinky sex


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> Wow! some things you said there struck home. She has climbed on top of me.... I will try that. Maybe I am reading the signs wrong.
> 
> I like your wording with the stopping point... I will try that. I have thought about not taking her all the way and asking for some, but she has flat out told me that she hates that (crash and burn on that one). Hmmm, you have given me something to think about.
> 
> Yeah, I don't think she truly understands how blue balls hurt... especially over time lol. of course, I don't really expect her to, but yeah, maybe I should tell her and be away from the bed when I do. Thank you.


It's one of my main gripes about sex is a lot of men started and don't finish you because then they want you to finish them and nothing has happened yet and with women a lot of times they have to really relax and not just be very busy in order to actually get off. It's hard to know what to do because not everybody can get off simultaneously doing things back and forth. I hope you can talk to her about some of that. 

It's encouraging that she climbs on top of you even if it's just for a hug or cuddle. 
Puts you in the position of being able to take it further.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> No she doesn't ever take charge. Maybe you are right. I would like for her to be more aggressive... Maybe meeting her in the middle is telling her and encouraging her during intimacy.... Something to try maybe.


My wife maybe a couple times a month will take charge. Other than that if I tell her what I want and it’s something she will do, she generally seems to enjoy it.

I do like when she tells me what to do.

It took a bunch of progress on my part to think of it as her making me happy rather than me being selfish. So now I just tell her straight up. If I want her to do something different and it’s an act she does, she normally exceeds my expectations especially if I am vocal about it during and tell her how great it was after. Today she blew my mind this morning and we went on a 3 mile walk and I was like man that thing you did OMG.

So gradually over time she has more confidence and when I ask to try something she goes at it harder because she knows that my reaction is positive.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

fluffycoco said:


> guess hersso mature and educated, all of h live is only about kinky sex


Not sure I understand. Sorry. Are you saying that is all I am concerned about?


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Hey @ordregguy reading your thread you are getting some great ideas. I would like to suggest some. I have been happily married for over 34 years now. My wife was a minister's daughter, however not the wild type you hear about. She was a virgin and was always guilt tripped growing up about sex being bad and nasty. It took a lot to get her to relax and loosen up.

A couple of suggestions that worked for us. I got her in the privacy of our house and by herself with me not around to start to read some erotica and that was a big help. Also it is a little pricey but it was really big for us to go on a vacation to a adult only resort. Yes you can (with some good research) go to those as a monogamous husband and wife and do not have to swing, switch partners, or be an exhibitionist to go. I know everyone is different but those two things made a big difference in out love life. As a matter of fact we usually go on a adult vacation every 3-5 years. Our child is 30+ now and on their own, and she is getting antsy to go more often, but Covid has put a damper on those plans. However, she is hopeful for next year. She say she wants to try a new place, just her planning and looking forward has been good for me (if you know what I mean ) Best of luck!


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Hey @ordregguy reading your thread you are getting some great ideas. I would like to suggest some. I have been happily married for over 34 years now. My wife was a minister's daughter, however not the wild type you hear about. She was a virgin and was always guilt tripped growing up about sex being bad and nasty. It took a lot to get her to relax and loosen up.
> 
> A couple of suggestions that worked for us. I got her in the privacy of our house and by herself with me not around to start to read some erotica and that was a big help. Also it is a little pricey but it was really big for us to go on a vacation to a adult only resort. Yes you can (with some good research) go to those as a monogamous husband and wife and do not have to swing, switch partners, or be an exhibitionist to go. I know everyone is different but those two things made a big difference in out love life. As a matter of fact we usually go on a adult vacation every 3-5 years. Our child is 30+ now and on their own, and she is getting antsy to go more often, but Covid has put a damper on those plans. However, she is hopeful for next year. She say she wants to try a new place, just her planning and looking forward has been good for me (if you know what I mean ) Best of luck!


Hmmm. I am open to that idea. I am not sure about the erotica. However... I am open-minded so maybe some research will find me something to use. Thank you


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

ordregguy said:


> Hmmm. I am open to that idea. I am not sure about the erotica. However... I am open-minded so maybe some research will find me something to use. Thank you


For us the erotica work first before the Adult vacation, but of course you know your spouse better than any of us. Best of luck! I hope she does come around and really open up. When my wife did it was the best thing I ever experienced.


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

First, I think you should just accept being the one who initiates in your relationship. It sounds like your more dominant while she is more submissive.

Second, you should try some truth serum. Get a bottle of flavored vodka, and do some shots! A few shots may relax her enough to open up about things that seem to embarrass her. And may loosen her inhibitions & liven things up in bed.

Thirdly, and maybe this should be your first step, has she seen a doctor to see if she has any hormonal issues?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ordregguy said:


> CURRENT SITUATION - When we first became intimate, things were really bad. She would never initiate, it was always on her back, and she was dead weight. I couldn't get her to use her hands or reposition. It was literally like using a doll. After some time, she has improved a little. She now moves a little when I nudge her (confused on what to do, but she does move) and we have expanded our positions to on her back and doggie style. Recently, she has straddled me. she gets confused on what to do though. Foreplay is non-existent, and oral play is done by me..... in fact, I usually have to finish myself if I am in a kinky mood (a non, two-position, mood).


So you knew what she was like sexually, and despite finding her utterly unsatisfactory sexually, you married her anyway. And now you're trying to find out how to make her somebody she isn't. Which is literally like digging yourself a deep hole that you can't climb out o,f and then complaining about finding that you're stuck in a deep hole.



ordregguy said:


> WHAT I HAVE TRIED - I have talked to her in a supporting way. This is hard because she hates talking about sex. I mention roleplay ideas to spark a conversation, I encourage her by telling her how good it feels when she concentrates on me, I tell her she looks sexy, amazing, and hot regularly (where I get a butt shake out of it), *I mention suggestions of hearing her orgasm (that has improved)*, I ask her straight out what her fantasies are.... I have tried direct and indirect. I usually get a slight acknowledgment and a change of subject in response.


Perhaps you don't realise this, but what you have asked for is a performance. And your wife is obliging with exactly that, so you are getting a performance (until she finally gets tired of not being good enough).

It is also worth noting, that your asking her to offer sound effects, and your other frequent requests for more, tell your wife that she isn't good enough for you. Which does nothing towards offering your wife a safe space sexually.

That said carry on with this approach at your own peril.



ordregguy said:


> Sex is not a priority for her.


There you go, this is who she is. Unfortunately for the both of you, your sense of entitlement sees you unwilling to accept the natural consequences of what you have chosen.



ordregguy said:


> FINAL - So divorce is not an option for me. I need to find a way to either bring my sexual interest down via hobbies or work, or I need to be patient and find a way to introduce her to things where she may like them (or a little of both). We haven't fought over sex (we rarely fight), but I am having a hard time grasping this. My wife is mine, to be exclusive with and explore with. She is my excitement, my world, the one I love, and the one I fantasize over.... I just wish she would express that to me.


Considering the fact that you and your current wife have been previously married, it's pretty clear that divorce can be an option whether you want it or not.

You would do well to understand that your wife is actually an autonomous individual with her own wants and needs, who isn't your property. Since understanding that would go a long way towards you grasping your wife's behaviour.



ordregguy said:


> Like I said, every situation is different. I knew coming into this marriage that sex may be lower in my priorities. I am willing to meet her in the middle (tone it down some on my side). Things have improved (I am not saying that they are not) and I am blissfully happy other than the intimacy.


Meeting her in what you consider the middle, is a significant departure from where she wants to be. 



ordregguy said:


> Actually, That is exactly what I mean. She is truly an amazing woman. I am extremely thankful for everything she does. It's hard though... When you fantasize about your wife and you should be living out at least 10% of those fantasies. If I was given a choice of no sex and be with her or lots of sex and be without her.... I would take no sex. I keep hearing in the back of my mind "that is giving up. Don't give up on her". And that is why I wrote this. Maybe there is something I haven't considered or tried.


Instead of imagining your wife as another fantasy woman, you really would do well to ground yourself in reality. Which means, she isn't actually what you fantasise about.

So Good luck on claiming you will happily take no sex going forward while being with her. Since the way you're going at this, she's going to eventually get tired of your disappointment of her sexual self and she will close her legs. Since nothing makes va-clang happen better, than someone who keeps reminding a woman that they are awful sexually.



ordregguy said:


> I want us to both chase after each other and want to please each other.


She is trying, I mean she even gives you fake sound effects. So it's a shame you evidently don't appreciate it.



ordregguy said:


> She just changes the subject. she will listen, say ok, then start talking about something totally unrelated. I have brought the conversation back at times. You can tell that she hates talking about sex though.


In the same way your wife is dismissive and avoidant in changing the subject, because she isn't interested and she doesn't feel safe, comfortable or accepted for who she is. You are also dismissive of what she desires and avoidant of who your wife really is.

She is not wrong for being herself, and you are not wrong for being yourself. Yet it is wrong to want her to be someone she isn't.



ordregguy said:


> I'd like to think that I don't pressure her. I definitely do not want to pressure her.


You may express a desire not to pressure her, yet your actions do betray you.



ordregguy said:


> Enthusiasm is definitely a plus.... However, I would be happy with some interest at times. There have been many times when we cuddle after I finish her and she will ask "what about you?" Sometimes I am blunt and say "well, that is up to you". Other times I don't want her to feel like I am forcing her to and I reinforce how much I truly enjoyed making her go (in hopes of getting at least a handjob in the future {no luck}). She likes for me to tell her what to do, but won't do them when I do. I will suggest a hand job and she will laugh and say not now (too busy, daylight, kids coming, on period... etc...). There are times that she does do something as simple as a hand job, but she looks bored out of her mind. That's a turn on lol. I have mentioned that everything is fun with enthusiasm and I try to show her as well. But she has either no interest or is not sure how. Yeah... Something simple like showing me that she loves pleasing me would be a huge, huge, plus.....


Of course she looks bored while servicing you with a hand job, I mean surely you understand how boring that is to do.



ordregguy said:


> Suggestions? Thoughts?


I think you ought to let your wife be who she is, and accept her as she is. Not forgetting you chose her and knew what you were getting.

On the other hand if you are determined to try to turn her into somebody she isn't, I hope you have the cognisance and decency to set her free now, rather than torture her further going forward.

That said for future reference, if you want to be in a sexual relationship with a woman who is a sexual dynamo. Then you need to pick a woman (that wants to be with you) who is a sexual dynamo. Otherwise,... well you know what happens when you don't chose to be with a woman who is a sexual dynamo.

Good luck.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

not saying she is wrong , but if she does not want to fix it she will not , 
if she wanted to fix this it is she that needs to post on a self help forum


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Noman said:


> First, I think you should just accept being the one who initiates in your relationship. It sounds like your more dominant while she is more submissive.
> 
> Second, you should try some truth serum. Get a bottle of flavored vodka, and do some shots! A few shots may relax her enough to open up about things that seem to embarrass her. And may loosen her inhibitions & liven things up in bed.
> 
> Thirdly, and maybe this should be your first step, has she seen a doctor to see if she has any hormonal issues?


Yeah, meeting her in the middle means I may have to accept the role of initiator ( if that's a word). I would be willing to accept that. 

Haven't tried vodka to loosen her up. Wine makes her sleepy. Ha, it has somewhat the opposite effect. I will have to ask her if she would like to drink with me. I'll try it. Lol. Worst case, we have non sexual fun with a hangove. That's not so bad. Lol

Yeah, here is a point I try to keep in mind. She is on certain medications that lower her libido. We are taking steps with the Dr on weening her off of them.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

frenchpaddy said:


> not saying she is wrong , but if she does not want to fix it she will not ,
> if she wanted to fix this it is she that needs to post on a self help forum


She would NEVER post. Remember in my comments, the subject is taboo to talk about.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think a few things are getting conflated here with talk of who initiates and libido lowering medication versus what happens when you’re all initiated and good to go and having sex.

The gist I got from your OP is that you were looking to improve what happens during sex, not before (initiate) or how often (libido). Are these also concerns?

In terms of her initiating, I totally get why you want it. Unfortunately biological differences can get in the way of that. Check out the references on responsive versus spontaneous desire.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Oh God... not another "she is an amazing woman but crap in bed" thread... she is not an amazing woman if she is crap in bed and doesn't do anything to improve the situation...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

ordregguy said:


> We did... but she exceeds everything else. I know that it may not change, but I can get insight and be hopeful.


I’m sorry but This is all on you, if you knew that sex was important to you and having a partner who was opened to experiment was important as it is now, but decided because she met all the other categories you would marry her then you got wanted. I hate people who marry people thinking the can change them.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

ordregguy said:


> Yeah, meeting her in the middle means I may have to accept the role of initiator ( if that's a word). I would be willing to accept that.
> 
> Haven't tried vodka to loosen her up. Wine makes her sleepy. Ha, it has somewhat the opposite effect. I will have to ask her if she would like to drink with me. I'll try it. Lol. Worst case, we have non sexual fun with a hangove. That's not so bad. Lol
> 
> Yeah, here is a point I try to keep in mind. She is on certain medications that lower her libido. We are taking steps with the Dr on weening her off of them.


Tequila

tequila makes the panties fall off.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Personal said:


> So you knew what she was like sexually, and despite finding her utterly unsatisfactory sexually, you married her anyway. And now you're trying to find out how to make her somebody she isn't. Which is literally like digging yourself a deep hole that you can't climb out o,f and then complaining about finding that you're stuck in a deep hole.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not sure how to respond to this. You don't truly understand like you think you do. There seems to be a lot of personal resentment in your response that has nothing ( very little ) to do with my situation.


Lostinthought61 said:


> I’m sorry but This is all on you, if you knew that sex was important to you and having a partner who was opened to experiment was important as it is now, but decided because she met all the other categories you would marry her then you got wanted. I hate people who marry people thinking the can change them.


Thank you. But it's not really about change. I believe the same way. Sure there are things that I would like to see and I have expressed them. I'm sure there are things about me that she would change. I think that's natural and you just learn to accept them.

This is a little different. It would be to your argument if she stood her ground ( like she normally does on other things) on how sex is going to go. That would be something I would have to accept, but she is not. For example, there was a time we talked about role-playing. I went through different scenarios and she said no to all but one. That particular one I have tried to initiate butshe laughs it off like it is forbidden or taboo. This is not me changing her, I want to encourage mutual interests in the bedroom. She has flat out told me that she is not interested in some really kinky sex. I accepted it and moved on. I don't desire those things because my wife stood her ground. These things I talk about in my posts are not times she stands her ground. She just seems lost or confused... embarrassed maybe....

I know my wording sounds one sided. I am to blame for that. I do remember a time she initiated me to a chair we have where she went down on me. It was exciting and I didn't ask her to. So it's there..... but one time doesn't equate to helping her relax and loosen up.

Sure, ill take blame. I want a little excitement in our intimacy. Not a lot, just something we both agree to. I don't see anything wrong with that. Cheating is not an option nor is it considered.... well, divorce is not an option either nor should it be considered. We have to work on our problems and we do have to find that mutual middle where we meet. Getting there is where I am at.


Talker67 said:


> Tequila
> 
> tequila makes the panties fall off.


That's what they say lol. We are not frequent drinkers


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

So, I usually don't have anyone to talk to about this. I appreciate everyone putting their input in. A lot of this is self therapy and reading your responses has helped me. Within the last 24 hours, I have looked at the issue from another approach. I have some ideas to try, I have grounded my realities a bit more, and I am more confident that patience, love, and compassion will help.

I love my wife and love our relationship. I know my wife and this is not a boundary issue. 

I am going to continue with my weight loss for me, my wife, and for our sex life. I won't put stock on her reaction because I'm doing it mostly for me and my confidence. 

I will continue to show her patience. I will nudge her from time to time, encourage her, love her, and express how beautiful she is through actions, words, and affection. I'm in this for the long haul and a little patience can go a long way.

I will try some of the suggestions here. Talking about sex outside the bedroom in a non- pressuring way, lowering some expectations, try out some toys, and maybe even a casual drinking night to open conversation. 

Again, thank you to those who stayed positive and gave me advice. Again, this is more self therapy for me. I feel like I knew the answers deep inside, but needed to hear it from another.... thank you again!


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## AndStilliRise (Nov 9, 2020)

ordregguy said:


> First of all, thank you for reading this and participating. This seems like a common subject, but I become disconnected when reading other solutions because I feel all problems are unique. I'll try to make this easy to read and refer to.
> 
> THE PROBLEM - Sex with my wife is boring and vanilla.
> 
> ...


1. Stop looking at porn and comparing your sex life to that. You will never ever be happy.

2. The fact that you call your wife dead weight shows your attitude about her to begin with. Sex with her will never ever get beter because it's clear you don't value intimacy with her, you just want a hot free ride. Women know when they aren't sexually valued and respond accordingly.

3. Change your expectations and value and cherish your wife instead of thinking only of how your penis feels.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

AndStilliRise said:


> 1. Stop looking at porn and comparing your sex life to that. You will never ever be happy.
> 
> 2. The fact that you call your wife dead weight shows your attitude about her to begin with. Sex with her will never ever get beter because it's clear you don't value intimacy with her, you just want a hot free ride. Women know when they aren't sexually valued and respond accordingly.
> 
> 3. Change your expectations and value and cherish your wife instead of thinking only of how your penis feels.


Thanks.... there are a lot of assumptions there. But thank you anyway.


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## Kona (Sep 6, 2021)

Ever tried being more dominant?
She seems very submissive and reserved, and your tales make it seem as though you are responding in a similar passive/selfless fashion.

Get a good workout in, say "Daddy horny", carry her to the bed, get her worked up with oral, and go ham.
Ignore faint protests or lame excuses (not actual protestations of course) and have your way.
If you show your vigor and passion then she can reciprocate, e.g. saying "I don't really care if I get off" seems disingenuous and devalues the act.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Sounds to me like you bought an old hound dog and now want it to run races down at the dog track.


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

Kona said:


> Ever tried being more dominant?
> She seems very submissive and reserved, and your tales make it seem as though you are responding in a similar passive/selfless fashion.
> 
> Get a good workout in, say "Daddy horny", carry her to the bed, get her worked up with oral, and go ham.
> ...


Not full dominance.... at least at the right time. I definitely could try it though


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## Kona (Sep 6, 2021)

ordregguy said:


> Not full dominance.... at least at the right time. I definitely could try it though


I don't mean whips, name-calling, etc. Just being more assertive. It doesn't seem like she denies you, so maybe she enjoys being passive/objectified and wants you to act upon her.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

ordregguy said:


> Great advice! No... I don't think she would be open to a therapist unless our marriage was on the rocks.. And it's not. Yeah, I have talked to her. I think your point is well taken. Baby steps and patience. It's not like I am NOT getting any.... I just want to add some excitement. Thank you


I haven't read past this so forgive me if I repeat someone. The point of going to the sex therapist now is to avoid the marriage on the rocks situation. As a BDSM educator, I'm telling you put the link on the back burner. You need to get her to be comfortable with sex and then enthusiastic about it. Only then will you have the good base by which to expand into other things.

Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Hey @ordregguy try some things out this weekend and let us know how it goes. Hey maybe some things will work and she will bang your brains out!


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

HappilyMarried1 said:


> Hey @ordregguy try some things out this weekend and let us know how it goes. Hey maybe somethings will work and she will bang your brains out!


I'll let you know. I'm confident in this new approach. Fingers crossed🤞


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## ordregguy (Sep 5, 2021)

maquiscat said:


> I haven't read past this so forgive me if I repeat someone. The point of going to the sex therapist now is to avoid the marriage on the rocks situation. As a BDSM educator, I'm telling you put the link on the back burner. You need to get her to be comfortable with sex and then enthusiastic about it. Only then will you have the good base by which to expand into other things.
> 
> Sent from my cp3705A using Tapatalk


Ok, thank you. That seems consistent with my thoughts on being patient with her. I appreciate you commenting.


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> do you have a wedge. Honestly missionary doesn’t do a lot for many women.


@Anastasia6 is that an inflatable wedge?

Do you ever find yourself too tired to have sex after blowing that thing up?



ordregguy said:


> Haven't tried vodka to loosen her up. Wine makes her sleepy. Ha, it has somewhat the opposite effect. I will have to ask her if she would like to drink with me. I'll try it. Lol. Worst case, we have non sexual fun with a hangove. That's not so bad. Lol


Yeah, actually, with the vodka you should probably plan on finishing yourself because after you two do enough shots to get her relaxed & talkative she might be ready for a nap.



ordregguy said:


> I am not sure how to respond to this. You don't truly understand like you think you do. There seems to be a lot of personal resentment in your response that has nothing ( very little ) to do with my situation.


1. Don't; 2. You're probably right; 3. That's the norm.



Kona said:


> Ever tried being more dominant?
> She seems very submissive and reserved, and your tales make it seem as though you are responding in a similar passive/selfless fashion.


/\----Hitting the nail on the head, I think.

You married a woman who has had the idea that sex is good beaten out of her. I don't see how she could be anything but submissive and reserved. Maybe even a little damaged from all the negative treatment.

_Your _job is to convince her otherwise!

Be patient, but consistent, initiate frequently & often, each time push her a little, try to make a little progress.

You are fighting against years of negative conditioning.

Are you giving her The Daily Ten Second Kiss? With a long hug?



ordregguy said:


> Not full dominance.... at least at the right time. I definitely could try it though


Be Dominant, all the time!

You are the man of the house!

Act like it, you may find she responds quite favorably.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Noman said:


> @Anastasia6 is that an inflatable wedge?
> 
> Do you ever find yourself too tired to have sex after blowing that thing up?
> 
> ...


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## Noman (Oct 17, 2014)

@Anastasia6 Thanks, my initial search on Amazon showed inflatable wedges which just didn't seem like they'd work very well.

Is the Liberator worth the price, then?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I think so


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## Gomezaddams51 (Jun 15, 2020)

Time to tell her either she gets with the program or she has two choices: Divorce or let you find a woman outside the marriage who will act like she is alive when you have sex.


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

Hoping for a great report later this weekend @ordregguy !


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## HappilyMarried1 (Jul 21, 2021)

ordregguy said:


> I'll let you know. I'm confident in this new approach. Fingers crossed🤞


Hey @ordregguy waiting for hopefully a great update on your weekend. The reason you may not have posted an update yet is because you are too tired and wore out or still going at it to post an update.😜


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