# Tired of felling inadequate.



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

I am 37 and a mother of 3. My husband and I have been married for 13 mostly happy years. Sex has been a argument with us from quite early on, I have never had the drive he does. 
Since having kids my interest in sex has decreased a lot! When we would have sex it was only to please him and it quickly became a chore for me.(My oldest child is 10 years old). I am now at the point where I don't even want to have sex at all. I feel horrible because I know how much it hurts him and how rejected he feels but I cannot make myself do it. I feel like my spirit is broken. I want it to be how it was, where I actually look forward to be intimate with my husband, Where I am an active partner in lovemaking. I just don't know how to do it? and I can't continue to have sex merely for him. 
I know that this is a deal breaker, I have been told how unacceptable it is to have a sexless marriage but I still can't make myself do it. I know how inadequate this makes me sound but I am desperate for some advice, could I be feeling this way because I have had sex for the last ten years out of obligation or is there something really wrong with me? I don't want to lose my husband but I still can't give him what he wants? What is wrong with me?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Well for one thing, having passionless sex for 10 years would kind of turn you away from continuing to try.

So your lost your libido after having kids, kept having sex but didn't get anything out of it. 

When was the last time you wanted sex?
Do you masturbate, if so how often?
Do you feel good about yourself in general?
Do you have any thyroid problems?
Are you on the pill or other hormone type birth control?

Other than the sex issue, how are things with your marriage?
Do you work outside the home?
Do you exercise?

Would you say you are attracted to your husband? Do you find him sexy? What do you like about him?

When you do, or did, have sex, did you ever get aroused? 
How would you rate the level of effort he puts into getting you aroused?
How would you rate the level of effort you out into getting yourself aroused?

These question, though they seem intrusive, are all potential avenues to getting your libido back.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

I am attracted to my husband, not jump your bones attracted anymore but I would say he is attractive. I feel pretty good about myself as well. 
After my last child was born I was the happiest I have ever been, I felt like my family was finally complete. My husband started feeling a little overwhelmed and when we finally talked about it I found out he was so unhappy. I was stunned. He said he was tired of not having more sex, this was less than a year after my last child, definitely we were not having much sex but we had three little kids and I figured it was fairly obvious why. 
I wondered how we could possibly be so off, me literally so happy and him so miserable. 
He asked me if I was a lesbian, which I was offended because I have know him for almost 18 years and I thought he aught to know? He accused me of being asexual and asked me if I wanted just to be friends. 
I was heart broken, I went to my doctor and told her I needed to be tested to find out if there were any chemical reasons for my lack of sex drive. All the tests came back normal. 
Since all this I feel a tremendous amount of pressure, I talked with my husband about it and he seems to get it but it doesn't take long for him to get frustrated with me again. 
My husband would do anything to please me sexually, When we do have sex I sometimes will have an orgasm but initially I am not interested at all. I had been making a point to have sex with him once a week, but he is still not happy and I know I can't do more.
He tells me he is happy in our marriage except for the amount of sex we have? He has told me it's a deal breaker not to have sex? If he is happy with me, would he really leave me because he wants to have sex more than once a week?


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Albertamom,

The simple fact that you have come on here to talk about you problem is one step in the right direction. Atleast you realise and accept you have a problem. Well done.

I am a male married to someone just like you. We have two children one in his mid teens and one about to be a teenager. 
My wife and I get on OK....she isn't interested in sex and isn't interested or concerned about my needs. When the children leave home, so will I.

Marriage, as I'm sure you know, is all about lots of things but its basically about team work, working together for the common good of the family, the marriage and the two of you as individuals.
Sex is the one thing that binds you. Without sexual intimacy you are in effect nothing more than friends.

Sex is how men bond, its how we show our love.....it might be quite basic but to us it is very important.

People often say....why go and have a mediocre hamburger 'outside' when you have prime rib at home....?? True....but what it you don't even have dry bread at home?....

I really am very sorry to be blunt with you here, but unless you meet him half way and make a real effort to be sexual with him, you will lose him.
Just as my wife will me.
Yes, sex really is THAT IMPORTANT to men.

Good luck...I hope you manage sort things out....many couples do, and go on to have enviable marriages!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay so as the men pour their hearts out, as Askari has done, you will come to understand that yes, sex is THAT important. But not just spreading your legs and making your body available... Blech! That's not sex!

What your husband wants from you is desire. He feels YOUR love for HIM through your desire to have sex with him. If he isn't emotionally connecting with you through sex, he feels disconnected and distant. After a while, he stops feeling love towards you. Love as in romantic love, as in the reason why you two got married in the first place.

When you get married, you promise to be faithful. To only have sex with your spouse. When your spouse give duty sex, uninspired sex, boring and routine sex, you don't feel loved. After a while of not feeling loved, you stop loving. Make sense?

So, how do we get your desire back?

Your hormones are fine so that's good. Your health is good, check. You love him and are not annoyed, aggravated, or angry at him, check!

So then the loss of libido is because you got so caught up in your family you forgot you are a sexual woman. You're so wrapped up in raising your family you forgot you were a couple of lovers FIRST!

There are several things you can do to being back your sex drive.

Rule # 1. No More Quickies! If your husband wants a quickie offer a hand job or blow job. If you are taking off your clothing you MUST have you brain in the game and quick is not something you can do right now.

2. The most important thing is to keep sex on your mind. Various ways to do that include looking at erotic picture, or porn. Wearing sexy lingerie every day. Toss out your tired over sized tee shirts and start wearing sexy nighties to bed. Think about sex and dress for sex. And let your fantasies run wild. Imagine sex, picture sex, imagine the good feelings sex used to bring you and reach for that to come back.

3. Bring back your sensuality. SENSE in sensuality. Means touch and not just the sensation you feel on your arm as you slowly run you hand up and down your arm, but what your fingers are feeling. Start touching your body and find all the places that are extra sensitive. Make a note of them. Invite your husband to do this to you, you do this with him. Remember back when you first started dating? You explored each other's hands, arms, necks... The socially acceptable places to explore. Go back to doing this when you and hubby are relaxing each night.

4. Masturbate frequently. You need to wake up those connections and keep them awake. You don't have to orgasm but you do need to arouse yourself. Get some coconut oil and rub that all over your lady parts to wake them up!

5. Flirt! Be outragous with your husband. Flash him. Sex is fun! Play wrestle with your husband, try to pin him. Get him to chase you and pin you. This gets your heart rate up and once your caught, if you've been doing the above, you'll be ripping each other's clothes off.

Don't skip any of these steps. At first, you might not feel anything different. Stick with it. You've allowed those neural pathways to get clogged with toys and schedules, so weed all of that out and make getting your sex drive back MORE important than getting the kids to practice on time!

Your husband needs to help you do these things. He needs to support your efforts and understand that this may take a while before you start to see results. He needs to not rush you when you do have sex. He needs to help you awaken your sex drive by making sure you are aroused, but you have to want to be aroused.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

One question I forgot to ask...

You said you've never had the sex drive like he does. You said you make a point of having sex once a week and, at this point, you simply can't do more.

Back before you had kids, how often did you two have sex and was that enough for him? Was it too much for you even back then?

Once a week sex might be adequate for some, but if your husband has a high sex drive, once a week is only enough to keep you from going crazy.

So, was there ever a time when you wanted to have sex more often than once a week? If so, how long ago? And how long of a time period did that last?


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Askari,

I really appreciate your post, your right I am really looking for advice here.

I know what your saying is right and true. 
How do I make more effort to be sexual with him? Are you suggesting that I have sex more? but what quality of sex are we having?

I know this is really unfair for my husband, it's so simple right??

It doesn't feel simple. I know what he needs and yet I feel like I can't give that to him or won't give that to him? 

I love my husband. I don't want anyone but him. 
I also want to be healthy with him and lying there wondering how long it will take is not healthy.

The truth is I want to want to have sex with him again.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Anon,

Before we had kids we would make love 3-4 times per week, but it was quality sex. 
My husband has a high sex drive and even then he was not entirely happy. I think he would be happy to have sex once a day.


Thank you so much for your suggestions, I can't wait to try them


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

anon has an excellent list. To it i would add internet pornography. Porn gets a very bad reputation when guys watch it and masturbate _instead_ of having sex with their wives. But it CAN be used to some good. the good would be: a) find out new kinky techniques/tools/ways of thinking/acting that make sex interesting again, and b) get your body and mind horny, so when your husband walks in the door you DO want to jump his bones.

a good way to get into it is to read some erotic stories online. There is one site that is just a library of erotic stories, categorized. try masturbating while reading some that interest you. The text-only media might really get your erotic mind working again.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

albertamom3 said:


> Askari,
> 
> I really appreciate your post, your right I am really looking for advice here.
> 
> ...


Alberta....being a bloke I'll say 'oh just do it woman'....but then it wouldn't help much...

But, there IS some truth in what I say, just as there is in what Anon says...and indeed what you said yourself.

If you make the effort you will find that your body will respond....the Pavlovian effect if you will.
If you read an erotic book I am sure you will find that your body will start responding. 
If you WANT to make love to him more often then you HAVE to make the effort...mind over matter!

Forgive the crudeness here, but go down on your husband (ALL men LOVE that!) your mind and body will start responding because of what is happening....let your husband go down on you....RELAX and you will start enjoying it and wanting it more.

But you have got to WANT to do it. Let your brain lead and your body will follow.

I just wish my wife realised she had (we) a problem and how dejected and rejected it makes me feel. To the point that I have switched off.
You husband is lucky that atleast you accept you have an issue and are seeking help.


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

"He tells me he is happy in our marriage except for the amount of sex we have? He has told me it's a deal breaker not to have sex? If he is happy with me, would he really leave me because he wants to have sex more than once a week?" 

Yes he just might leave you because of the sex even though everything else is great in your marriage. I read many posts from men who are thinking about or have left their wives just because they weren't getting enough sex from their wives even though everything else in their marriage is great. It really surprised me as a women to hear that because while I know sex is important to a marriage my husband is LD and I would like to have sex more often I would never leave my husband over that I adjust but to most men sex is a lot more important than it is for most women.

It sounds like your husband tries hard to satisfy you and probably like a lot of women once sex starts you enjoy it so my advice is to. do it with your husband a lot more. He would love it every day, you would be happy once a week, compromise and do it maybe 3 times a week. He should be happy with that. The happier he is the better the marriage will be and the less likely chance he will leave you for another women who will satisfy him.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

askari said:


> Albertamom,
> 
> The simple fact that you have come on here to talk about you problem is one step in the right direction. Atleast you realise and accept you have a problem. Well done.
> 
> ...


I must say I'm in agreement with Askari here. I got married nearly two years ago and the sex practically stopped at the altar! We didn't have sex on our wedding night nor on our honeymoon - in fact it was over a week before he laughingly said he'd better make it legal so I wouldn't leave him. Things have gone from bad to worse since then and we often go 3 months without sex (the average is once every six weeks). Our marriage is a mockery - we're friends, not lovers. 

Seeing Askari say that "Sex is how men bond, its how we show our love..." - it's patently obvious that my husband does not want to bond with me or show his love in any way.

I'm left in a barren marriage that would be difficult to get out of financially (my husband is barely earning at the moment so has no real choices about where he would live or how he would live). If I could afford to leave, I would. As I cannot, I have met a man that I am slowly developing a relationship with. What will happen, I still don't know but I do know one thing - I'm not willing to live a celibate life and if I need to go outside my marriage in order to feel feminine, attractive and wanted, then I will.

OP, I urge you to go all the way in trying to rekindle your lovelife with your husband - nobody should have to live feeling unwanted and unloved.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

This sounds eerilie familiar to some other relatively recent threads where the woman appears to just not understand her husband or the importance of sex in a marriage.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> This sounds eerilie familiar to some other relatively recent threads where the woman appears to just not understand her husband or the importance of sex in a marriage.


So, what can you do when it's the man that doesn't seem to understand that sex is an important aspect of marriage? I've tried to explain to my husband that I might as well be his mother or daughter as we don't have a sexual relationship and he doesn't accept this. He claims that he does find me attractive and that he does want me and fancy me, but it's all talk. We last had sex 6 weeks ago and once every six weeks or so is our average throughout our marriage (nearly two years now). My husband thinks that people in their 50s (like we are) are too old to be thinking about sex, let alone doing it. Funny thing - this was not the way he talked about sex before we got married.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Doobie,

As much is it is very often the wife who is sexless its kinda wakes us up to the fact that there are also men out there who aren't interested.

You mention you are in your 50's...its not unusual at that age for the womans libido to increase whilst the mans decreases as does the ability to get a real boner!
The mind wants but the body says 'hang on'! Which is wheer those little pills can help!
But the man has got to want to do it, the pills help the plumbing work. Perhaps your husband is having problems getting it up so avoids the issue...

Has he been tested for diabetes (affecting more and more people all the time) which can affect the plumbing....has his testosterone been checked?

Being unable to perform really hits a mans ego...one way to deal with not being able to perform is simply not to go on stage in the first place!

If I am going to spend the next phase of my life sleeping with just my right hand then I'm going for a long walk off a short pier!

Good luck doobs!


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

He's still complaining so that's a good sign. Once he goes quiet on the subject you'll know it over or that he's found your replacement.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

doobie said:


> *So, what can you do when it's the man that doesn't seem to understand that sex is an important aspect of marriage*? I've tried to explain to my husband that I might as well be his mother or daughter as we don't have a sexual relationship and he doesn't accept this. He claims that he does find me attractive and that he does want me and fancy me, but it's all talk. We last had sex 6 weeks ago and once every six weeks or so is our average throughout our marriage (nearly two years now). My husband thinks that people in their 50s (like we are) are too old to be thinking about sex, let alone doing it. Funny thing - this was not the way he talked about sex before we got married.


It's the same thing as when it is the woman. Men and women really aren't all that different, despite what we've all been inundated with.

Contrary to popular belief, there really are men out there that just aren't all that sexual, and the only reason it seems a shock is because we've always been told how men are always hard and ready with the shift in the breeze, are only after one thing, will sleep with anything that'll let them. That is simply not true any more than what we've been told about how women don't like sex.

Some great insight into this common, yet largely ignored, phenomenon of low drive men in marriages is right here...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/98817-ld-husband-journal.html


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

samyeagar - my wifes lack of interest in sex and complete disregard for what my needs might be as all but made me asexual.
She has virtually killed my sexual flame.

So if Jennifer Aniston were to beg me to get into bed with her I probably couldn't do anything for her....sadly. Thanks to Mrs Askari.


----------



## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

I've read the LD Husband Journal (and been following the thread as it gets updated - it's been fascinating and there has been some real progress there). Before we married, my husband gave the impression that sex was an important part of the relationship. He and his first wife were swingers and into sex in a really big way. He made sure to talk to me about what an exciting sex life we would be able to develop between us before we married and then, as soon as we got married, the sex practically stopped. I've been keeping a diary for the past year or so and we've had sex 10 times in 12 months. While I do understand that it can be harder for a bloke in his fifties to get it up, I'm feeling pretty cheated here. The sex stopped, literally on our wedding day!


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

I have found all of these posts very helpful as well as other threads on this site.

After reading some of the other threads from men in this position, I have such a feeling of dread. I wish we wouldn't have left it for so long. I do however feel optimistic that I can work through my problems and make it work.

I am going to show my husband this site and talk with him about trying some of the suggestions on here.

Has anyone ever had any experiences with A sex therapist?


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
Just to check, are you on any form of birth control? Some of those can completely destroy sexual desire. If so, stop and engage in sexual activities that can't get you pregnant. 

Is your husband willing to to everything you want in bed? Does he do all he should in other ways? if not, then that is a different discussion.

As others have said, sex is vital. My marriage and life are about as perfect as you can imagine - but during the many years when my wife wasn't having sex with me I was miserable, resentful and angry. During the times when we did have a good sex life I was happy. Sex is more important than anything else. Really. 

If your sex life is good, everything else will get better. When my wife won't have sex with me, I barely want to touch her because each touch reminds me of what I so desperately need but can't have. When our sex life is good, we touch and kiss all the time. 

(I'm not trying to make you feel bad but just adding to the emphasis of how important this is).

Sex is one of those things that becomes more desirable the more you do it. You may need to make an effort the first few times, but you may find that you enjoy it. 

You could try. Try to have some sort of sex with him every other day for a month. If you aren't feeling aroused enough for full sex, just give him a BJ (or HJ or whatever is his favorite). Long loving sex is great, but if you aren't feeling like it, take the 15 minutes it takes to give him pleasure. 

You are not doing this as a "service" to him but because you love him and enjoy giving him pleasure. It is a gift for him, because you love him. 

Try that and see how things go. Maybe you will find that once you get in the habit, that you are really enjoying things. Maybe you will find that the effect on him is a remarkable improvement. 

In the worst case, if you don't find you are enjoying things, all told, this is only a few hours of effort.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> Anon,
> 
> Before we had kids we would make love 3-4 times per week, *but it was quality sex. *
> My husband has a high sex drive and even then he was not entirely happy. I think he would be happy to have sex once a day.
> ...


Hmmmm. The bolded part suggests your husband dropped the ball first and you walked away from the ball entirely.

He had a stronger sex drive than you which mean that sometimes you had sex just for him. You weren't in the mood but knew he wanted sex and since you loved him and wanted him happy you willingly and happily participated and felt good that you made him feel good. Sex doesn't always have to include her orgasms especially if she's not totally into it. It's okay to have sex, occasionally, that is all about one persons pleasure only. 

But, as the kids came your mood was rarely for sex and so the occasional "just getting it done for him" became the norm.

This is where he dropped the ball and you walked away from it. This is so common we really should do a better job of preparing our kids for marriage and sex.

As the years go by, sex rarely included your mind. As such, sex rarely included your feelings, and as such, sex became a chore. One more thing you had to do to keep your home and family running smoothly with everyone happy. 

Enter resentment! However, because you love your husband you didn't resent him, you resented sex! And this further killed your struggling sex drive.

I propose that 3-4 times a week, for the foreseeable future until you get your sex drive back, your husband give you full body massages for 30 minutes and you return the favor by giving him a loving and doting hand job or BJ. You need some body awakening AND some personal pampering of the intimate nature. You both need to reconnect and focus on generating positive feelings about being touched. If you're not in the mood for sex, you can always be in the mood for a nice body massage and if your husband agrees that no penetrative sex is okay so long as his excitement and desire is acknowledged and also pampered, IOW don't leave the man with a boner and no where to go with it, this should work wonders for your relationship.

Also, struggling to keep up with his sex drive from the get go can make you feel inadequate and resentful. Sex drives don't always match up and all marriages go through periods where there is a mismatch even if they began perfectly matched. Talking through this with the goal of understanding each other and finding ways to remain connected and feel loved is the key to surviving it.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

albertamom3 said:


> If he is happy with me, would he really leave me because he wants to have sex more than once a week?


My wife and I waited to have children. We were married about nine years before she conceived and her desire went out like like flipping a light switch shortly afterwards.

Will you husband really leave you? I didn't leave my wife. Leaving a woman with children to take care of because she doesn't really want to have sex struck me as only slightly more ethical than having an affair, so I stuck it out.

It's a pretty empty feeling later in life though. -And not just for me.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Here's a practical reason to be more intimate. Vastly improved communication... I've been married or almost 30 years and in the last few with our issues it simply feels we are not even making an effort to understand each other. Wife is not making the effort to be precise. 

This results in being isolated, and sorry to say, my wife is as isolated as North Korea. Which may be fine for some people but not for a high level professional like her. 

Intimacy is all about the little details as Anon expertly identified above. Not just about having sex. By tuning out one part of everyday life you risk locking out not only your partner but the rest of your life from your side. It's not a good way to live, trust me. Not for your partner and not for you. 

You're doing great by wanting to find answers. A lot of people don't.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Richard,

I am not on birth control. 

My husband is a very interested in getting me to want sex again, I don't doubt that he would do anything for this to happen.

I have found that with his increasing frustration with me, he is way less likely to help me in other areas of our family life. I don't think I resent him for this because I know where it is coming from if anything I am resenting myself, which is killing me. 

A girlfriend of mine told me that her sex drive is directly related to the amount of help her husband gives around the house and with the kids, but I really don't feel like this is the case for me. I truly have never intentionally denied him sex. I just can't do it only for him anymore because I feel like it is breaking me.

As I said before, I am hopeful with all the advice I have received from this forum. I am only just starting to try to find a solution that doesn't involve me checking out and doing the deed. 

Lately, since I have had zero interest in making him happy I have been having thoughts about if all of this is even worth it? I have been feeling so bad about myself and how inadequate I am that I felt like, "If all I am is sex then leave" I know that this is prideful and stupid, but I was at a loss of how we could fix it.

I don't want to lose my husband, I want to make him happy. This is the first step for us and I really think a lot of these suggestions will work.


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> Yes he just might leave you because of the sex even though everything else is great in your marriage.


Do *NOT* doubt this for a second. A man deprived of good sex...their minds start to wander, they get hurt, then mad, then want to get even....you do NOT want to start all that up. Give him GREAT sex and he will be your lover for life!


----------



## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

albertamom3 said:


> After reading some of the other threads from men in this position, I have such a feeling of dread. I wish we wouldn't have left it for so long. I do however feel optimistic that I can work through my problems and make it work.
> ?


Dont feel "dread". Just sit down with hubby at a very quiet time and say something like "honey, i am not sure why, but i have not been especially horny for you. I realize this now, and want to change it. It may be hard for me to completely turn it around, but i want you to be fully sexually satisfied. I want you to lead me to do the things you want to do, teach me anything you want me to learn. I am your eager student...". 

If you are wearing something sexy at the same time you hold this conversation...like a short skirt, thigh high stockings, lacy black panties, plunging shirt....he may just grab you then and there and start you on a "recovery plan".


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

albertamom3 said:


> He has told me it's a deal breaker not to have sex? If he is happy with me, would he really leave me because he wants to have sex more than once a week?


Yes


----------



## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

doobie said:


> I've read the LD Husband Journal (and been following the thread as it gets updated - it's been fascinating and there has been some real progress there). Before we married, my husband gave the impression that sex was an important part of the relationship. He and his first wife were swingers and into sex in a really big way. He made sure to talk to me about what an exciting sex life we would be able to develop between us before we married and then, as soon as we got married, the sex practically stopped. I've been keeping a diary for the past year or so and we've had sex 10 times in 12 months. While I do understand that it can be harder for a bloke in his fifties to get it up, I'm feeling pretty cheated here. The sex stopped, literally on our wedding day!


You have been cheated. Good news is your ED like symptoms will be cured by someone who is into you and likes, sex with you.

It is possible your wife was looking for a big dummy to love her and provide financial and other means of support. It's why the sex has ended right after marriage.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
Try to get out of the mindset that "if all I am is sex, then just leave". 

There are many things to life besides food, but go a few days without food and nothing else will seem important. Sex is the same thing to many people, go without and and the loss, frustration and desire drive out other thoughts. 

I can't emphasize this enough. A few months ago I was *happy*. My wife and I had an active fun sex life - just a couple of hours a week, but it was enough to put a smile on my face. I looked forward to going home after work. I loved the anticipation of seeing what she would be wearing for me when I got home. We would sit on the sofa and cuddle. But it wasn't just sex - we went for walks, and out to dinner. We were like a young couple in love.

Its been over a month now. I'm frustrated, I'm resentful. She has been busy dealing with the death of an (elderly) parent and I understand that - but it seems that the only thing we have stopped in our lives is sex. We still watch TV, go to diner, spend time with friends - but it seems dry and meaningless to me. A return to the decades of misery.


You wrote:

"I just can't do it only for him anymore because I feel like it is breaking me."

Why is it breaking you? Why has it become so awful? I know you aren't particularly interested, but what has made sex worse than doing laundry, cooking dinner or any of the wide variety of things that you do every day but don't particularly enjoy? This isn't a stranger, its the man you love and who loves you. 

I know I'm sounding harsh but it just seems to me that you can fix everything quite easily. Maybe not, but I'm betting that you can be happy together. 

So my suggestion remains. No half measures. Spend the next month doing the things he most enjoys in bed. It is your gift to him to try to fix your marriage. I honestly think it will fix things. 






albertamom3 said:


> Richard,
> 
> I am not on birth control.
> 
> ...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

I give you a lot of credit for coming here and trying to address this.

I will give you some context and then ask you a few questions. 

My wife (M2) has a lower drive than I do. We both worked hard to find a happy middle ground. 

A BIG part of that was a lot of tactful but very honest communication about what worked and what didn't work for her.

Below is a short list which is intended to capture the spirit of this stuff.

As the HD spouse, I accept that you, my LD partner don't walk around feeling desire/aroused. Your baseline state is sexually neutral. You aren't turned OFF, nor are you turned on. 

With that acceptance come some responsibilities: 

I/we have learned how to turn you on in a way that feels good to you. That said, until you ARE turned on, I avoid explicitly sexual behavior because it feels bad to you. And that includes:
- Comments, jokes
- Staring/leering 
- Groping (non sexual touch is very welcome - full body hugs are great - but no grinding)

And the REASON for all that is: when the LD spouse is in neutral, the stuff above feels a bit like that really annoying situation when your male puppy is dry humping your leg.....

It isn't neutral it feels BAD. 

AND just as critical 

The LD spouse ACCEPTS that a sexual connection is way more important to their HD partner. They don't:
- Make excuses
- Arrange their schedule to avoid sex 

They DO:
- Exercise regularly (this does have an impact on libido)
- Make an effort to teach their HD spouse how to slowly (10 minute to 30 minute type thing) get them turned on

---------
Getting your LD partner turned on:

Might start with:
1. Non-sexual touch that feels good, full body massage or
2. Playful wrestling 

Synchronize your expression of arousal with theirs. Until they are CLEARLY turned on you avoid:
- Moaning, panting
- Grinding your hard/wet self against them

And MOST important you don't touch explicitly sexual areas. Because that touch often feels BAD for them when it happens to fast/soon. 

Arousal should not feel rushed or pressured. Because when you rush / pressure your LD partner that feels BAD to them. Even if they eventually have an orgasm, they may view the overall experience as not enjoyable. 

In fact, the saddest thing I see (over and over) in badly strained HD / LD marriages is this statement by the HD partner:

But she comes almost 100 percent of the time, so why does she reject me so often. 

The answer to that, while simple, is SO different to their experience of sex that they simply refuse to believe it.

For the LD spouse, the PATH to orgasm matters AT LEAST as much as the result. 

The following two statements are 100 percent true:
- M2 loves having her nipples touched
- M2 hates having her nipples touched

Is she a liar? Nope. Is she crazy? Nope. Is she constantly changing her mind about likes/dislikes? Nope.

Those statements above were true, just not complete. The complete picture is:

- M2 loves having her nipples touched when aroused
- M2 hates having her nipples touched when not aroused





albertamom3 said:


> I am attracted to my husband, not jump your bones attracted anymore but I would say he is attractive. I feel pretty good about myself as well.
> After my last child was born I was the happiest I have ever been, I felt like my family was finally complete. My husband started feeling a little overwhelmed and when we finally talked about it I found out he was so unhappy. I was stunned. He said he was tired of not having more sex, this was less than a year after my last child, definitely we were not having much sex but we had three little kids and I figured it was fairly obvious why.
> I wondered how we could possibly be so off, me literally so happy and him so miserable.
> He asked me if I was a lesbian, which I was offended because I have know him for almost 18 years and I thought he aught to know? He accused me of being asexual and asked me if I wanted just to be friends.
> ...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MEM, that is a fantastic post that will aide not only in gaining understanding for both of them but also will be a catalyst for further discussion between them.

Your post should be required reading for every HD/LD couple!


----------



## OnAnIsland (Oct 3, 2014)

albertamom3 said:


> I do however feel optimistic that I can work through my problems and make it work. I am going to show my husband this site and talk with him about trying some of the suggestions on here.


This is both wonderful and maddening to hear. It's only maddening for me because it is exactly what I would want from my wife... and keep waiting on with no luck. That's _my_ situation. Let's stick with yours...

Did it all go wrong somewhere? Yes. Do you feel regret, confusion and dread that it might get worse? Yes. But you have figured out that you do love your husband and want *both* of you to be happy and enjoy a fulfilling passionate marriage. That's a great first step. The next step, which is so much more important, is that you want to communicate this to him and show him that you've been thinking and reading - and now you're ready to act.

Please keep this attitude! Get it in your head first that you will do it. Don't get discouraged if there's some awkward moments or even arguments/fights that arise as years of tension and doubt are worked through. If your husband at least knows that you want the same thing he does and that you're committed to actually _doing_ things to rebuild your marriage he should work with you and be encouraging. 

I desperately want my wife to think, feel and act the way you have described. I would grant her forgiveness, patience and anything else she needed to start connecting again. I truly hope your husband does the same if you follow through with this. For most of the men here who are frustrated it isn't about 'why can't you do X for me Y times a week?' The frustration is about why their wife can't express even a desire to have a romantic and sexual marriage. If you make it clear to your husband that you want it and you're willing to read/learn/talk/do to get it... you're more than halfway there.

Best of luck.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Anon,

Let's hope that Alberta can find a way to engage her H in this process. 


Oh - and one more thing for Alberta.

Your initial focus and primary goal should be to work with your H so you get to the point where the overall sexual experience is good for you. 

Right now, the overall experience isn't good for you. Do NOT force yourself to increase frequency, when you dislike the experience. Doing so will make things worse. 

If your H is willing to learn how to get you in the mood in a way that you like, you will be perfectly fine with a higher frequency. 

That said, her husband needs to accept that not only is her arousal pattern slower than his, it might also be generally less intense. 

That matters a LOT. 

It is VERY common for toxic communication patterns to develop between HD/LD couples who are fighting over frequency. 

The LD spouse feels guilty/anxious about frequency. Often they try to compensate for this by pretending to be more turned on than they really are. Sometimes this evolves into them pretending to orgasm. 

Their intentions are actually good. They are either trying to reassure their HD spouse and/or preserve their marriages. 

But this deception is really, really harmful. They begin to associate 
Sex with deception - which is beyond terrible. 

*Because the opposite of intimacy isn't a lack of intimacy. It's the presence of deception. *

So - this means the HD spouse needs to not only tolerate the truth, they need to embrace it. To see it as their LD partner trusting them. 

This means that if the LD partner isn't always able to orgasm, you don't make it a thing. As long as both of you know that the HD spouse is: good, giving and game - the lack of an orgasm isn't something to fret over. 





Anon Pink said:


> MEM, that is a fantastic post that will aide not only in gaining understanding for both of them but also will be a catalyst for further discussion between them.
> 
> Your post should be required reading for every HD/LD couple!


----------



## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP, how much do the both of you do together? Do the two of you bond in other ways? Normally when I see the phrase "everything in our marriage is great EXCEPT for sex (or something else major)", I have my doubts that the marriage is as good as he/she thinks it is. IMHO, you two fell into the parent trap. Three young kids means that you two - or maybe more you - have LET them monopolize your time. I bet you two spend very little quality time together. I bet you two don't go out on dates much or even act as husband and wife outside the bedroom. Kids can put the romantic fire out very quickly.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Mem,

This made me cry.

I feel like you are specifically talking about me. I mentioned in an earlier post about feeling broken. What you are talking about is exactly right. I just didn't know it.

I know that my H will work with me and I know that my own understanding of this is going to be a huge help. 

"Because the opposite of intimacy isn't a lack of intimacy. It's the presence of deception"

Thank you for your post


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

We definitely do not go out as a couple often. We have 3 small kids and not a lot of family support. Our youngest is four now and we are a lot more comfortable about leaving them with a sitter so we have talked about making more of an effort to go dates with each other.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

I read somewhere that if a mom has small children they are fulfilling your tolerance level for being touched. I don't mean, sexually, just getting pawed all day by young kids can be an overload.


Once that is less of a factor, your sensate focus can shift back to your h.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

I am glad to be helpful. You have a good heart and that is often more important than anything else in these situations. 





albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> This made me cry.
> 
> ...


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
Dates are a great idea. Just please understand that dates are not a substitute for sex. I say this because for a long time my wife tried to find things that she could do to make up for our lack of sex. At least for me, it doesn't help. Gifts (even very thoughtful ones), doing things together, being happy with my spending time and money on my hobbies are all very much appreciated - but they don't fix the problem. 

If you are starving, being given a Ferrari for your birthday is great, but you are still staving. The ONLY thing that will fix your problem is food. 

If your sex life improves you will find all sorts of non-sexual ways to enjoy your time together. If not, nothing else will help. 







albertamom3 said:


> We definitely do not go out as a couple often. We have 3 small kids and not a lot of family support. Our youngest is four now and we are a lot more comfortable about leaving them with a sitter so we have talked about making more of an effort to go dates with each other.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Anon

I'm not sure I agree. She has said that her husband will don anything she wants so I don't see how to improve the situation. If anything it will get better with frequency because she may become more comfortable and he will be less stressed over sex. 

He is probably happy to take time to pay attention to her and get her aroused before sex, but if she asks him to engage in non-sexual intimacy it will just increase his frustration.

To use my food analogy, it is difficult to sit down for a long romantic dinner when you are staving - instead you wind up just wolfing down the bread as soon as it arrives. The best dinners are not when you are starving but when you are mildly hungry and looking forward to enjoying the food. 

(of course I am projecting my on experience onto other people and often that is way off base).



MEM11363 said:


> Anon,
> 
> Let's hope that Alberta can find a way to engage her H in this process.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Anon
> 
> I'm not sure I agree. She has said that her husband will don anything she wants so I don't see how to improve the situation. If anything it will get better with frequency because she may become more comfortable and he will be less stressed over sex.
> 
> ...


This analogy has merit. Good emotional sex is hard to come by until you've rid yourself of desperation and resentment. And it's hard to rid yourself of desperation and resentment until some minimal frequency is established.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

Do you think it might help for you to begin by posting what a typical experience is like for you. 

Though I do want to I want to emphasize something. You need to begin practicing telling the unflinching truth. It's hard at first, but then it gets easier. 

After you describe a typical experience, perhaps some of us will have a suggestion or two. 











albertamom3 said:


> We definitely do not go out as a couple often. We have 3 small kids and not a lot of family support. Our youngest is four now and we are a lot more comfortable about leaving them with a sitter so we have talked about making more of an effort to go dates with each other.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Well usually we will have a quickie or he will give me oral stimulation until I have an orgasm and then we will have sex until he has an orgasm.

This is really embarrassing because I know how unfulfilling this is for my husband. He would definitely like to try new things in bed. As I said before I don't think there is anything he wouldn't do to help me be a more active sexual partner. 

The problem again lies in the fact that I have no interest in sex.

But I am feeling really positive I can get that back!

Our patterns are such a routine, I am surprised he even wants to have sex with me at all.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

The fact that you even want to try means you've already overcome the biggest hurdle. You can do this.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

I feel bad for you. You are a good person and came to TAM out of concern for your husband, and the stability of your family.

Many of the posters here, including Anon Pink and myself recognized that you feel vulnerable. This is totally normal. 

Sadly, there are a number of folks participating in your thread who are full of anger/resentment at their wives. And those posters are making it harder for you to feel safe enough to fully open up. 

I don't know how many posts you must make for the 'private message / email' feature to be activated. 

Perhaps you could read some other threads and post on them. 

Once you reach the minimum, and can PM, you could pick a woman poster (there are many) with whom you feel comfortable. 

And in a one on one forum you can explain what is happening in your head, from the start of an encounter with your H, to the end.

Because I am certain of one thing. Some part of your encounter - feels bad for you. And maybe more than just the beginning / middle. Maybe afterwards as well. 

And I believe you can likely fix that. But the first step is in identifying what feels bad and maybe even why. 

The reason to put this in writing is that it will then become much easier to tell your H what is happening. 

If however you feel up to sharing that stuff here, I am guessing that some of the men (the angry ones) might learn a thing or two.

In the meantime, if you would like me to share some specifics regarding what works for me and M2, happy to do so.





albertamom3 said:


> Well usually we will have a quickie or he will give me oral stimulation until I have an orgasm and then we will have sex until he has an orgasm.
> 
> This is really embarrassing because I know how unfulfilling this is for my husband. He would definitely like to try new things in bed. As I said before I don't think there is anything he wouldn't do to help me be a more active sexual partner.
> 
> ...


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anger has much entertainment value in person but over the Internets, not so much. 

Seeing such ethereal anger, on the other hand, may help persuade a "what? me happy" spouse of the impact of their actions (or lack thereof ) on their partner far more than reading unicorn and kitten filled success stories or good hearted suggestions.

Think of it as shock therapy. Traditional therapy works for most people, but like a stuck fuel pump or alternator, more help may be needed.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Anon
> 
> I'm not sure I agree. She has said that her husband will don anything she wants so I don't see how to improve the situation. If anything it will get better with frequency because she may become more comfortable and he will be less stressed over sex.
> 
> ...


Hiya Richard,

I understand your thoughts that upping the frequency will aid in making a connection sooner. However, having BT and DT I can tell you it won't, it will cause more problems because the underlying issue is still to raw.

I think he husband can survive 8 weeks of HJ and BJ as his sexual outlet while she begins to work a reawakening of her sexual self. During this time, all her sexual experiences need to be positive. This isn't a simple matter of him touching her in the right sequence. She has to wake up a part of herself that went dormant.

After reading Alberta's posts this afternoon, it's very clear to me that she WANTS this to work and that's more than half the battle.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

John,

I agree that some folks need a motivational boost. 

I don't believe AlbertaMom is one of them. 

I think she needs some guidance in being more open with her H about what feels good/bad/indifferent. 

And I believe her H needs some help in learning to read her body language and in accepting the physiological differences between them.

I also believe that Alberta MAY be having trouble turning off the very normal background chatter of her internal anxieties/to do lists. 

I believe she might find that the following is helpful with that:
- Her H takes the kids an hour or so before bedtime 
- She does a hard cardio workout for 30-60 minutes 
- And then adds 1-2 glasses of wine to the mix
- Takes a shower and gets in bed relaxed and happy








john117 said:


> Anger has much entertainment value in person but over the Internets, not so much.
> 
> Seeing such ethereal anger, on the other hand, may help persuade a "what? me happy" spouse of the impact of their actions (or lack thereof ) on their partner far more than reading unicorn and kitten filled success stories or good hearted suggestions.
> 
> Think of it as shock therapy. Traditional therapy works for most people, but like a stuck fuel pump or alternator, more help may be needed.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YES YES YES

This is QFT!!!




Anon Pink said:


> Hiya Richard,
> 
> I understand your thoughts that upping the frequency will aid in making a connection sooner. However, having BT and DT I can tell you it won't, it will cause more problems because the underlying issue is still to raw.
> 
> ...


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Don't know about cardio but 30 mile bike rides followed by a long shower and "getting beautiful" time and a couple of glasses of obscure and potent European adult beverages have done wonders for my wife, like 2+ hour wonders  followed by a gourmet omelette at 3 am... thankfully the girls are in college otherwise they may freak out by the old folks cooking...

The catch for my wife is to find the time and stress level reduction to devote to the above... That's our area of disagreement. And whether, at this stage in the game, even whether it is enough...

Perhaps Alberta would be willing to try such a Broadway production


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

At this point I willing to try anything!!

I do work in the evenings and don't get home until late.

But I'm sure My H and I can work out a schedule.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Just remember, make it memorable but not a Broadway production... 

And try the omelette afterward.


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

albertamom3 said:


> If he is happy with me, would he really leave me because he wants to have sex more than once a week?


Having been there myself, I can say YES, I would have ended our sexless marriage. In fact, it took me playing this card before my wife woke up to the fact I really loved her but we would not remain married and sexless. I preferred to sell our house, split the assets, and joint custody versus a life of near celibacy with her.

Wish I had some constructive advice to offer, however I simply cannot wrap my brain around your side of this. Sorry, I really am. Do keep posting and keep reading.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Anon Pink
I think it was in an earlier email that I suggested she provide HJs or BJs, whichever he prefers. I completely understand her not wanting intercourse when she isn't feeling like it. I'm just trying to find some way to lessen the feelings of rejection that I assume her husband is feeling. For some men (myself included), non-intercourse sex would be absolutely fine. I don't want my wife to do anything uncomfortable. Its just feeling rejected that I can give her a long backrub but she can't do something like a HJ or BJ for me. Not as a trade - but simply to be nice to me the way I am nice to her.

I think she is a good person. I expect he is a good person. They just need to fix this. I'm hoping there is something she can do that isn't too unpleasant for her that will make him feel wanted again. 

I think that there is some chance that part of the problem is feedback. He is feeling rejected and frustrated - and angry. He may be saying the right words but she is sensing that is is not happy - and not happy with her. This may be subconsciously driving her away. 

I know that at the worst times in my relationship, I was actually hoping my wife would find someone else and free me from my vows. I said all the right things, I kissed her good night and gave her back rubs etc - but try as I could to hide it , I think she probably picked up on just how frustrated and angry I was. 

Once our sex life improved, everything got better. I think she probably initially was just doing it for me, but very quickly it became good for both of us. She no longer sensed my anger. I no longer sensed her dislike of sex. 





Anon Pink said:


> Hiya Richard,
> 
> I understand your thoughts that upping the frequency will aid in making a connection sooner. However, having BT and DT I can tell you it won't, it will cause more problems because the underlying issue is still to raw.
> 
> ...


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> Here's a practical reason to be more intimate. Vastly improved communication... I've been married or almost 30 years and in the last few with our issues it simply feels we are not even making an effort to understand each other. Wife is not making the effort to be precise.
> 
> This results in being isolated, and sorry to say, my wife is as isolated as North Korea. Which may be fine for some people but not for a high level professional like her.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

Sex in a marriage isn't everything but it IS the one thing that binds you. If you have a good and loving sex life it will make for a good and solid marriage.
If you do not have a good and happy sex life you WILL start to drift apart outside of the bedroom. As John117 says, you start to tune out and unless you nip it in the bud you end up not just being on the same page but not even the same book.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, we men are very simple creatures indeed...make sure our sexual needs are (lovingly) met and we will do anything for you. We're just like a dog...feed us, tickle our tummy etc etc and we will be your loyal and faithful provider, helper and protector.
If you don't our natural wandering instinct can sometimes kick in...

No I'm not threatening, just telling the truth as it is.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

So I showed my H this thread and told him I want to try to recover what we lost.

For the past few days I have been trying to be more intimate with him. I have given him BJ and HJ but no actual sex, except last night I definitely would have. 

I feel like I actually could do this again.

The other night, because of reading this thread and me telling him I would make more of an effort, he initiated me giving him a BJ. I know that this is not a big deal as he is my husband and I don't doubt he is excited to work on our sex life, but I got that same old feeling of "just not wanting to at all!" 

I am trying to be really honest about how I am feeling so I can figure this all out and I really think that for me it's the pressure of feeling like I have to do it.

What if I told him that I needed to initiate any sexual contact? Is that unreasonable?

I'm not talking about flirting or touching or intimacy. I would only be talking about actual sexual acts?


----------



## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

Do you exercise? What kind of diet do you eat? Any medications? Too tired?


----------



## Angelou (Oct 21, 2014)

Try watching some porn or a sex scene in a movie? Go to a toy store together? Buy some lube with flavor...feathers...blind fold him.. make it fun! Add food, or take a hot bath


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> So I showed my H this thread and told him I want to try to recover what we lost.
> 
> For the past few days I have been trying to be more intimate with him. I have given him BJ and HJ but no actual sex, except last night I definitely would have.
> 
> ...



When you got that same old feeling, was there maybe more to it? Pressure? Resentment? "What am I getting out of this?

Have you two been giving each other body massages?

Have you been touching yourself in arousing ways?

When you first start this you really need to do it because YOU want it back. Do it for yourself, so that you can be a fully sexually awakened woman. 

So talk more about what's really going on in your head?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

To: AlbertaMoms Husband

Welcome.

I've been married to my wife, M2 for just shy of 25 years. The physical affection part of our marriage has always been great. The sexual part is as well. 

M2 and I connect maybe twice a week on average. We are both just over 50.

A couple quick things:
- M2 almost never starts out feeling in the mood
- She has taught me how to get her warmed up in a way that feels nice to her. That is a BIG deal because it is easy to turn someone off if you are touching them to soon, too fast before they are turned on. 

Here's the thing. It's M2's job to relax and let me work my magic. And it's my job to be patient and not rush her.

It is also her job to get enough exercise so that she isn't lost in some anxious do loop about kid stuff while I'm trying to get her to be fully present and in the moment with me.....





albertamom3 said:


> So I showed my H this thread and told him I want to try to recover what we lost.
> 
> For the past few days I have been trying to be more intimate with him. I have given him BJ and HJ but no actual sex, except last night I definitely would have.
> 
> ...


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Actually, That is why I am doing this.

I want him to be happy but I know that he will be happier when I am happy. 

I can't just do it for him anymore.

I want to look forward to having sex, I want to feel horny again.
I definitely want to save my marriage but I can't just do it for him.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

We haven't tried the massages and I haven't masturbated but I am getting aroused from his arousal. I have been forcing myself to think about sex, which sounds horrible but it's actually working.

I don't think I have actually thought about sex in forever.

I am reminding myself that, I want to please him because I love him and not because he expects it from me and that is helping a lot too.

The other night when I got that feeling again, I was actually repulsed. I know that it's a strong word but that's how I felt???


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

You might not ever feel horny at the very start. 

And I absolutely understand that the thought of having sex, when you aren't yet feeling any desire, is unsettling. 

And that is why it is absolutely critical to work with your H to figure out how you want him to touch you to gradually get you turned on.

But you absolutely have to teach him how to do that. It should only take 5 or so sessions to get him there. 






albertamom3 said:


> Actually, That is why I am doing this.
> 
> I want him to be happy but I know that he will be happier when I am happy.
> 
> ...


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Mem,

I can't even say I have myself figured out. Do you think right now while we are trying, I could ask him not to initiate? I don't want to emasculate him but maybe I would feel a little less pressure?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

This post is pure gold. I mean it. This is the type unflinching honesty M2 has with me. 

What was your H actually doing just before and right at the moment you felt repulsed?

And what was it you were thinking about doing/already doing when you felt that way? 

And just to reinforce this theme. Part of the reason I love M2 so much is that she has the courage to tell me the truth, good, bad or ugly. 




QUOTE=albertamom3;10728490]We haven't tried the massages and I haven't masturbated but I am getting aroused from his arousal. I have been forcing myself to think about sex, which sounds horrible but it's actually working.

I don't think I have actually thought about sex in forever.

I am reminding myself that, I want to please him because I love him and not because he expects it from me and that is helping a lot too.

The other night when I got that feeling again, I was actually repulsed. I know that it's a strong word but that's how I felt???[/QUOTE]


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

Yes. And I sincerely hope he looks at this situation the way I would. Which is this: His wife is trying to change a deeply ingrained response pattern. And that is difficult to do. So he needs to be supportive. 

And since we all share pretty openly on TAM: I almost never initiate with M2. And the reason for that is simple. We have this soft routine where we connect twice a week. Sometimes a bit more, every once in a while a little less. Since she is the LD partner, she's the person who knows what two nights are best for her. 

I don't feel the least bit emasculated by that. She loves me enough to make the effort. Doesn't accidentally forget me. Doesn't try to find excuses. 

And on the rare occasion I do initiate, if she doesn't want to connect that night, she just asks if we can connect tomorrow. When that happens I always say: sure thing






albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> I can't even say I have myself figured out. Do you think right now while we are trying, I could ask him not to initiate? I don't want to emasculate him but maybe I would feel a little less pressure?


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

We had a good night, we snuggled and watched a movie, when we went to bed he was getting undressed and wanted a BJ?

I'm sure that this is not that unusual but I didn't feel like that was where we were going?

It's so hard to explain.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Just to be clear, I am not repulsed by my husband.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Mem,

I do actually think that If I could initiate sex for the next little while that would help. Do you think I should ask him about this? or just tell him that this is what I need?



Thank you so much for responding to me, I soooooo appreciate your advice.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Tell him it is what you need. 

And - if he seems tense / frustrated on any given night, and you do NOT want to connect that night just tell him: I'm sorry that I'm not in the mood, I wish I was. I know this is hard for you. 

And then offer to give him a back rub or scratch his back if he likes that. 

Does he ever gently rub the inside of your thighs? And I don't mean on the way to touching you - there. I mean just a few minutes of soft foreplay like that? 

Because for M2, that works like magic.....




albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> I do actually think that If I could initiate sex for the next little while that would help. Do you think I should ask him about this? or just tell him that this is what I need?
> 
> ...


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

albertamom3 said:


> We haven't tried the massages and I haven't masturbated but I am getting aroused from his arousal. I have been forcing myself to think about sex, which sounds horrible but it's actually working.
> 
> I don't think I have actually thought about sex in forever.
> 
> ...


I've only skimmed this thread, so forgive me if I am repeating something said earlier. But, is your repulsion driven by your husband's actions, or is there more to this? I'm concerned that you had found yourself more aroused and now you are repulsed by your response (if I am understanding correctly).

Mem is right on that complete honesty is required here. I would emphasize that this does not apply only to your husband's behavior. Honestly also means being upfront with your own issues and progress in dealing with this issue.

I understand this marriage is important to you. You might be anxious about the future given the current struggles. Despite your effort, you might get to a point where you realize your husband's changes do not solve the problem. If that happens, you need to make sure your husband knows this.

If it gets to that point and you are not honest about it, you will have to contend with feelings of being used in addition to whatever issues are caused by the sexual divide. This I speak from personal experience.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

No I'm not repulsed by me being aroused. I think that I felt that way because I felt like I was expected to do it. I wouldn't say it was his action that caused it either because I understand that he is happy and excited to start working on our sex life.

Our marriage has been hard for the last 3 years, since he told me he was unhappy. My fix to this was to have sex even when I was not into it.

That did not work.

So now I am trying to work on me. I only just joined this forum and I have got such great advice. It has only been a week, I started being more intimate with him and I found that with my head in the right place I am really enjoying it. I just panicked when I got that feeling again because so far it has been really good for me.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> We haven't tried the massages and I haven't masturbated but I am getting aroused from his arousal. I have been forcing myself to think about sex, which sounds horrible but it's actually working.
> 
> I don't think I have actually thought about sex in forever.
> 
> ...


Yes, strong word but you need to use the words that you think best fit how you feel.

You've had 10 years to develop this feeling of repulsion at the suggestion of giving unreciprocated sexual pleasure. (This is not to suggest that your H wasn't willing, or was a bad lover, it was because sex was happening when you were not sufficiently aroused to feel pleasure, over and over and over again) What was once a feeling of satisfaction giving love, slowly morphed into repulsion because you felt such pressure to feel something that wasn't happening for you.

Arousal goes from 0 to 10. Zero meaning neither aroused nor repulsed. 10 meaning orgasm. Some people are always at 5, the point where direct sexual stimulation feels good and makes the arousal level go higher. Other people start lower. Jumping the gun on sexual stimulation can cause the arousal level to go lower, or higher, depending on the person. For you, jumping the gun causes you to go lower.




albertamom3 said:


> We had a good night, we snuggled and watched a movie, when we went to bed he was getting undressed and wanted a BJ?
> 
> I'm sure that this is not that unusual but I didn't feel like that was where we were going?
> 
> It's so hard to explain.


Feeling a loving connection is not the same thing as feeling sexually aroused. Your H needs to understand this as well as you. You felt a loving connection because you snuggled together. For your H, with a higher sex drive (starting at a 5 arousal level) this meant he jumped to a 6-7 after snuggling. For you, you were still at a zero, maybe a 1 as a result of the snuggling.

Keep in mind, you two are trying to UNDO 10 years of building a huge sexual disconnect and that means you both have to put a LOT more thought and effort into making sure each forward step toward any sexual encounter is a positive and welcome step.

You both really need to do those massages for each other. You need to start associating his touch with pleasant relaxing feelings without tensing expecting those touches to turn sexual. This is really important!

He should not be asking for a BJ unless he has spent a good amount of time making you feel good and relaxed. He totally jumped the gun on that request and it is requests like that that will take you two backwards instead of forwards.

To you, the BJ request came out of the blue. To you, it was as if he said, "Timmy has a game at 4 tomorrow; the car needs to get the oil changed; I'm about to ejaculate..." What? Where'd that come from? :scratchhead:

You want to be the one to initiate. You feel like if you are the only one to initiate, you won't be turning him down (thus no more rejection) and you'll be able to control sex so that it only happens when you are aroused enough so that HIS jumping the gun on you doesn't cause you to feel yuck about sex.

I personally don't like this idea because it's not addressing the problem. And the problem is you are NOT being aroused before sex initiation happens, and sex initiation does not include getting your mind in the game before touching you in a sexual way.

Your husband really needs to understand this about you. It may not always be this way. But for now it is. Sex, for the near future, is going to have to take a LOT more effort from him. He needs to understand that to undo 10 years of building bad associations with sex, for right now, is much more important than actually having sex.

I also don't like the idea because it will likely lead your H to feel like he's walking on egg shells wondering and hoping you'll initiate without HIM making connections between his behavior toward you and you wanting sex. Also, there are those days each month when your cycle is high and you're going to want sex no matter what he's done or hasn't done. Those are mixed signal days and it's probable that those days will be the only days you actually do want sex.

You've been really honest in this thread which is fantastic! Continue to be honest with him. 

You: "I'm not feeling it at all right now, but I'm open to try to get those feelings going." Or you can give him an arousal number. He can't touch your sexual zone until you're at a 5. 

Sex won't always be this difficult because as you both learn to reconnect, learn to read each other better, by doing the things (all of them!!!) outlined in my previous post your mind will more easily become engaged in sex.

Does this make sense to you?


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

I think it's completely reasonable to be the main initiator for a while. I'd only suggest when you have that discussion you also have a talk about a target frequency that you'd like to initiate. Then make a commitment to YOURSELF to try to reach that target. This will give you motivation to find ways to get yourself aroused, and also will help him deal with any nervousness around "will she actually follow through?" and possibly give him the confidence to back off.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Personally my experience with her being the only one allowed to initiate has been really bad. It's caused me to resent her and detach emotionally almost completely. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/167041-not-sure-where-go-here.html

There's a difference between being tired of "feeling" inadequate and being tired of "being" inadequate. It has to do with who you think is responsible for your actions.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sexual arousal doesn't "just happen" out of the blue. Something causes a spike in arousal, whether it's hormones, pheromones, or the situation.

Ideally, you want sex to be a harmonious experience. One of synchronicity and reciprocity.

Placing rules and restrictions on when sex can happen and who can initiate removes entirely the synchronicity, harmony and reciprocity of building arousal levels.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Anon,

This makes perfect sense to me.

My poor H, I'm sure he is royally confused with me. First I tell him I want to try to push sex back into my head, so let's have more sex. Now I'm thinking that might not be the answer.

I am going to continue thinking about sex..lol I can't get over how strange that sounds.
I was given a website for erotic stories which I will also try.

I am going to make myself more available to him but I am going to talk with him about getting me aroused before we decide to initiate sex.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Albertamom3
I think it is wonderful that you are trying - so many LD people don't do that. 

I think it would be OK if you tell him that you would like to be the one to initiate for a while. Just be careful to be sure that you DO. Don't let other things get in the way. If you don't feel like it at one particular time, that's fine - but be sure that doesn't turn into not feeling like it for a week or a month.

While you are doing things for him, be sure to tell him what YOU want in bed as well. 

Keep trying for a couple of weeks if you can. It may take him a few times to realize that things really have changed.

In the end, if this doesn't work, you will know that you have done your very best to fix things.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

WOM,

I am responsible for my actions but I will need his help if we want to fix this.

I know that the feelings I am having are my fault because I was the one who started the pattern. So I guess it is "Tired of being inadequate"


----------



## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

I wonder if some professional counseling might help..?...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> WOM,
> 
> I am responsible for my actions but I will need his help if we want to fix this.
> 
> I know that the feelings I am having are my fault because I was the one who started the pattern. So I guess it is "Tired of being inadequate"


Just a slight correction:

You didn't start the problem on your own either. 

Things were mostly good until sex became a pattern of you having sex when you weren't aroused. 

That's why I feel so strongly about you two focusing on getting you aroused from 0-5 (your mind engaged and ready to proceed) via your own actions and thoughts, and his focus and attention on your arousal levels rather than just having more sex.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

But there needs to be an intense focus from Albertamom on figuring out what turns her on, and THEN work with her husband on making that happen. I don't think having her husband take random stabs in the dark (so to speak) is a good idea. If she doesn't know what turns her on, he's going to end up blundering through a lot of stuff and could make the situation worse.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

Most of the folks (myself included) posting on this thread are focusing on this theme of arousal. 

1. Are there any movies/movie scenes that turn you on?
2. Books/short stories? (50 shades, etc...)
3. Touch - where can H touch you when you aren't yet turned on, that feels good and does get you going?

Sit down and make a list of this stuff. 

M2 gets turned on when we wrestle and I overpower her. I'm not groping her during this. It is purely a contest of strength with some handicap rules:
- she can do anything except go for my throat or eyes - strike, scratch, bite, elbow, kick - it's all allowed 
- I am limited to wrestling - unless I pin her at which point she can either say uncle or get a spanking. She hates saying uncle more than anything in the world... 



QUOTE=Fozzy;10733762]But there needs to be an intense focus from Albertamom on figuring out what turns her on, and THEN work with her husband on making that happen. I don't think having her husband take random stabs in the dark (so to speak) is a good idea. If she doesn't know what turns her on, he's going to end up blundering through a lot of stuff and could make the situation worse.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Alberta,
> 
> Most of the folks (myself included) posting on this thread are focusing on this theme of arousal.
> 
> ...


If I were making said list, this would be on it! Except I'd have to change the handicapping rules. I couldn't strike, scratch, elbow, bite or kick unless I was seriously angry first.

We have our own version of this ...sort of. I pester him with wet willies and finger flicks to his neck until he pins me, but he has to catch me first!


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Fozzy,

I've been hesitant to say this because I admit that I don't know how it feels to be in AM's husbands shoes. 

I've never experienced that level of rejection. I imagine it is very painful. 

That said, he doesn't understand how this works/fails. 

This was a classic case of a man confusing kindness with arousal. 

H: I spent a half hour on the couch cuddling her. I got turned on almost immediately but used a lot of self control not to paw or grope her. It was totally non sexual. 

So I did what she wanted, and now I'm going to ask for what I want. 

H: Hey babe, you feel like giving me a BJ? 

---------
Let's freeze the frame right there. 

After a half hour of cuddling H is at an arousal level of 9 on a 10 scale. 

Unfortunately, due to their broken pattern, H not only avoided groping (which is a good thing and a demonstration of self control) he also avoided any type of sensual touch because his wife hasn't taught him how to do that. 

So after cuddling AM is at a 0 in terms of arousal. She feels good, is relaxed and happy. But she is NOT at all aroused. 

Without any transition at all, H says: do you want to blow me?

What does she feel? Revulsion. 

I actually think that her response was fairly normal. 

FWIW: If I gently turn M2 on, she happily and voluntarily does what AM was asked to do. I don't have to ask. She just does it. 

But if I did what AM's H did:
- She would react as if slapped 
- There is ZERO chance that she would do what I asked

Being graphically sexual with M2 without any warmup is a certain train wreck. That is just how she is wired. And I am not only ok with that, I'm so used to it that I can't imagine any other way. 

That said, M2 told me all this in a brutally honest and totally clear manner during our first year together back in 1989/1990. 

Prior to her teaching me how this works/doesn't work for her, I was no different than AM's H. 





Fozzy said:


> But there needs to be an intense focus from Albertamom on figuring out what turns her on, and THEN work with her husband on making that happen. I don't think having her husband take random stabs in the dark (so to speak) is a good idea. If she doesn't know what turns her on, he's going to end up blundering through a lot of stuff and could make the situation worse.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

I used to be turned on by him all the time, I think what happened is once my sex drive dropped, he was so frustrated with me that he didn't want intimate non-sexual touching from me.

On the other hand I found I also stopped touching and being intimate with him because I knew he would likely want to have sex.

He knows how to get me aroused we are just way out of practice and need to get out of the routine we have been in.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

albertamom3 said:


> I used to be turned on by him all the time, I think what happened is once my sex drive dropped, he was so frustrated with me that he didn't want intimate non-sexual touching from me.
> 
> On the other hand I found I also stopped touching and being intimate with him because I knew he would likely want to have sex.
> 
> He knows how to get me aroused we are just way out of practice and need to get out of the routine we have been in.


Question:

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but what was the cause of your lowered sex drive? What about having kids made the drive take a dive?

Also, is there a plan in place to restore your base sex drive to somewhere approximating the pre-child level? While I think that you've gotten good advice on getting through this slump, it seems more like a work-around than an attempt to address the root cause of the drop in drive.

The usual cautions about not letting your kids dominate your schedule and leave you continually worn-out seem to apply here.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

DTO said:


> Question:
> 
> Not sure if it's been mentioned, but what was the cause of your lowered sex drive? What about having kids made the drive take a dive?


The hormone slump after childbirth "typically" inhibits sex drive in women. Feelings of being overwhelmed "typically" prolong this slump. How this initial slump is handled (by both spouses not just the wife or the husband) will effect how long it lasts. 

Lots of places to get it wrong and only a few places to get it right.



> Also, is there a plan in place to restore your base sex drive to somewhere approximating the pre-child level? While I think that you've gotten good advice on getting through this slump, it seems more like a work-around than an attempt to address the root cause of the drop in drive.


When the last child moves out the work around is no longer necessary.  As we age we change, change is inevitable. How we respond to the change determines how we go forward into the next change.

Also, her base sex drive will change through out her life within the range of what's normal for her. If her normal base sex drive is a moderate one, it may go up for a time, or down for a time, based solely on hormonal changes and not taking anything else into account.



> The usual cautions about not letting your kids dominate your schedule and leave you continually worn-out seem to apply here.


I think you're right, but I think they apply to the husband too.

Continue the romance, the wooing, and setting the mood, even if she always has spit up on her shirt!


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

You ever watch a sports event where the broadcaster uses slow motion to let you see what really happened on a close play? 

I'll do that for you here. 

Back when everything fell apart, this is what would happen.

Your H would do something sensual. It was the unmistakable start of foreplay. And in that instant - you would think - oh no, I don't want to have sex, I don't feel desire. 

You made a conscious choice to give in to a rejection reflex. I'm not blaming you, I am however describing what you did.

M2 makes a different choice. She stays in the moment. Because in the moment, that thing I am doing, feels nice. 

And she trusts me. Trusts me not to rush her. Not to grope or paw at her. 

And I trust me. I know that I know how to do this. And I have faith. The faith that nature will take it's course. 






albertamom3 said:


> I used to be turned on by him all the time, I think what happened is once my sex drive dropped, he was so frustrated with me that he didn't want intimate non-sexual touching from me.
> 
> On the other hand I found I also stopped touching and being intimate with him because I knew he would likely want to have sex.
> 
> He knows how to get me aroused we are just way out of practice and need to get out of the routine we have been in.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
I think what you posted is likely the key. 

You need intimacy to desire sex. He needs sex to desire intimacy. Its very easy to get into a latch-up state where he doesn't want intimacy because it is so frustrating when he can't have sex. You don't want want to feel like he is only touching you to get sex.

You just need to do both for a while (maybe not very long). Have sex (or some sexual activity) frequently. Also have intimate touching that doesn't lead to sex. You may well find that you can both have intimacy and sex and both be happy. 





albertamom3 said:


> I used to be turned on by him all the time, I think what happened is once my sex drive dropped, he was so frustrated with me that he didn't want intimate non-sexual touching from me.
> 
> On the other hand I found I also stopped touching and being intimate with him because I knew he would likely want to have sex.
> 
> He knows how to get me aroused we are just way out of practice and need to get out of the routine we have been in.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> Askari,
> 
> I really appreciate your post, your right I am really looking for advice here.
> 
> ...


AM3 that's more than half the battle


55


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

How goes it? 





albertamom3 said:


> I used to be turned on by him all the time, I think what happened is once my sex drive dropped, he was so frustrated with me that he didn't want intimate non-sexual touching from me.
> 
> On the other hand I found I also stopped touching and being intimate with him because I knew he would likely want to have sex.
> 
> He knows how to get me aroused we are just way out of practice and need to get out of the routine we have been in.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Mem,

Things are going really well. 

It's amazing to me that I can see that he is already so much happier. He is so supportive.

We have been trying to be more non-sexually intimate with each other and that along with me trying to constantly think of sex is really working. 

When I first posted on here I was so desperate, I figured that my sex drive was gone and that was the end of it, But the truth is that I never thought of sex....ever. It's no wonder I didn't fell like it.

For me It is all in my head. I may be a little different but I know that we can have a great sex life if we continue to work on it. I'm not sure if I will have to constantly make it a priority or if it will be more natural as we go on? but at least I know It's possible.

For the next while I am not going to have quickies with him and I am not going to allow him to rush me, that's not to say I can't please him if he needs it but I will not allow us to fall in the same patterns as before. 

I am so happy that I found this forum and took a chance to post, It is still a work in progress and we have a long way to go but the advice I received from you and everyone else has made such a big difference!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> Things are going really well.
> 
> ...



That's terrific Alberta! Hopefullness is a lovely thing.

About the bolded part... 

1. Completely agree about quickies. I rarely give in to a quickie, but then again I'm almost always up for sex.
2. Now that you guys are on your way forward, you both need to take the lessons from this disconnect.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

That's wonderful. 

I like the avoidance of quickies and the honest communication about pacing. 






albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> Things are going really well.
> 
> ...


----------



## GrannyMildew (Aug 15, 2013)

*Re: Re: Tired of felling inadequate.*



askari said:


> Doobie,
> 
> As much is it is very often the wife who is sexless its kinda wakes us up to the fact that there are also men out there who aren't interested.
> 
> ...





WorkingOnMe said:


> He's still complaining so that's a good sign. Once he goes quiet on the subject you'll know it over or that he's found your replacement.





doobie said:


> I've read the LD Husband Journal (and been following the thread as it gets updated - it's been fascinating and there has been some real progress there). Before we married, my husband gave the impression that sex was an important part of the relationship. He and his first wife were swingers and into sex in a really big way. He made sure to talk to me about what an exciting sex life we would be able to develop between us before we married and then, as soon as we got married, the sex practically stopped. I've been keeping a diary for the past year or so and we've had sex 10 times in 12 months. While I do understand that it can be harder for a bloke in his fifties to get it up, I'm feeling pretty cheated here. The sex stopped, literally on our wedding day!





MEM11363 said:


> Alberta,
> 
> I give you a lot of credit for coming here and trying to address this.
> 
> ...


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Albertamom3
> I think it is wonderful that you are trying - so many LD people don't do that.
> 
> I think it would be OK if you tell him that you would like to be the one to initiate for a while. *Just be careful to be sure that you DO.* Don't let other things get in the way. If you don't feel like it at one particular time, that's fine - but be sure that doesn't turn into not feeling like it for a week or a month.
> ...


----------



## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I (finally) have something that may be worth adding to this very interesting thread.

AlbertaMom3, one thing that helped alot in my HD/LD marriage is that we "negotiated" an agreed sexual frequency. In our case, the agreed "number" is 2X per week. I look at that and think_ it's way too low, I'd rather be going at it every day (and twice on sundays)_. She thinks _my god TWICE a week? EVERY week?_ Slight exaggeration but the point is we were able to compromise on a specific sexual frequency that "works" for both of us.

What does this accomplish?
For me, this means I can look forward to enjoyable sex with my wife every weekend and once during the week. I'm not constantly looking for chances to strike, no more pressure tactics, or making her feel guilty that it's time for sex again, because I already know what we have agreed to. Those days in between now (if I need it) I can just go solo with some help from a good website.

For her, this means that she's not going around each day worrying _if/when will I approach her for sex_? In fact there are 5 days each week that she is "off the hook" so she can use those days to mentally "prepare" for our next round coming a few days away. She can "anticipate" the weekend and when it comes, it's not a surprise. 

Oh those other 5 days we do have intimate moments, and some occasional touching/petting, just not leading to full on sex. Because we both know this, it's better for us both: she's not slamming the brakes, and I'm not stepping on the gas.

By having this conversation and agreeing on a specific number, it eliminates the uncertainty that made her feel "pressured". It gives me some assurance that I will have a reasonably satisfying sex life, just a bit lower than I'd wish. It set achievable expectations that we both can live with. And I'm glad we actually found a compromise, because it's possible that we were just miles apart and had an irreconcilable sexual gap. It would have been alot better to know *Up Front* if I was insisting on sex every day, or (the other extreme) if the "most" she could ever do is sex twice per month, better for both of us to just end the marriage and find more compatible partners. I'm glad we worked this out and found this to help minimize our HD/LD gap.

Consider talking with you husband and agree on a specific sexual frequency.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Woody Allen and his girlfriend are in a therapy session.

The therapist: how's your sex life
Woody: we never have sex
His GF: we're constantly having sex
Therapist: well, how often DO you have sex
Woody/GF in unison: 3 times a week





tommyr said:


> I (finally) have something that may be worth adding to this very interesting thread.
> 
> AlbertaMom3, one thing that helped alot in my HD/LD marriage is that we "negotiated" an agreed sexual frequency. In our case, the agreed "number" is 2X per week. I look at that and think_ it's way too low, I'd rather be going at it every day (and twice on sundays)_. She thinks _my god TWICE a week? EVERY week?_ Slight exaggeration but the point is we were able to compromise on a specific sexual frequency that "works" for both of us.
> 
> ...


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
That is excellent news 

You may need to make a conscious effort to keep it a priority. My wife changed things a few years ago and life was great for a while. Then she gradually fell back into old patterns, its been a month and a half now with no sign of improvement.

I suggest you set yourself a goal, and try to make sure that you are having sex at some minimum frequency each month. Things can come up that prevent it on any particular day, but if you find you are behind for a month, then maybe you need to work harder.

Again it is wonderful that you are fixing this.




albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> Things are going really well.
> 
> ...


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Alberta....I'm afraid I am going to have to bite the bullet here and be honest....I wish you were my wife! I'm as jealous as hell that you aren't and even more jealous of your husband!

You faced up to the fact that your lack of interest in sex was hurting your husband and was having a detrimental effect on your marriage. You realised it, you accepted it and you decided to do your utmost to put things right.
I admire you for it. Well done. 

YOU deserve to succeed and be happy and your husband, I hope, realises what a wonderful wife he has.

I wish my own wife would even do/think just 10% of the way you do.

Hope you don't mind a cyber hug from a complete stranger, you deserve it
(--------------------)


----------



## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

Are you my wife? Honestly you sound just like her...

I just filed for divorce, she was shocked, shocked as she said she is so happy and doesn't understand.

Sorry but treating intimacy with your husband like a chore and hating sex with him is a deal breaker, how could you be in a marriage where your husband repulses you and think the marriage is great? Makes no sense...


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Tired of felling inadequate.*



cuchulain36 said:


> Are you my wife? Honestly you sound just like her...
> 
> I just filed for divorce, she was shocked, shocked as she said she is so happy and doesn't understand.
> 
> Sorry but treating intimacy with your husband like a chore and hating sex with him is a deal breaker, how could you be in a marriage where your husband repulses you and think the marriage is great? Makes no sense...


Did you read this thread beyond the initial post? Someone who was struggling and wants to get better, and you respond by projecting your situation on to her?

She is here because she wants to be better. Save your problems with your STBX for your STBX.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Cuchulain,

The truth is even though my husband was not happy with us having more sex, I didn't think it was a deal breaker, I thought our marriage was more than that. 

It wasn't until I read threads here that I realized that for a lot of people sex is VERY important, and it is so important that he might actually leave.

I feel really guilty about my part in this and that our situation has got so bad but I also realize now that it wasn't just me who got us here in the first place. My H has some ownership of it as well.

You mentioned about sex being a chore. It wasn't always a chore for me. You also mentioned my marriage repulses me, but it doesn't repulse me at all, what repulses me is feeling like I am supposed to perform for my husband so he won't leave me!

I don't have really anything figured out but I know what I want to happen and that is not to end up like you. I don't want my husband to leave. 

For me I am making changes with the way I think for myself and for my H, I will not put on a façade out of fear anymore.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> Cuchulain,
> 
> The truth is even though my husband was not happy with us having more sex, I didn't think it was a deal breaker, I thought our marriage was more than that.
> 
> ...



Very good post Alberta!

As you face challenges in getting your libido back, you're going to go through periods during which you do feel resentful, that it is YOU who has to change so "he won't leave you." And as your post points out, you recognize that you're making these changes for yourself, because having a happy marriage is worth it. Because you do feel more connected to him when you have a great sex life and because he is ALSO making necessary changes, hopefully resentment won't be but a blip on the radar from time to time.

Ignore the idiots who can't read...


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

albertamom3 said:


> I didn't think it was a deal breaker, I thought our marriage was more than that.


I can see that point of view. What if one spouse was involved in a horrible accident or experienced a degenerative medical condition that precluded sex? Certainly the marriage could go on as long as the couple loved each other..

For many people though, there is a huge difference between, "Can't" and "Won't." The perception that it is the latter of the two that is standing in the way may not be valid, but when it exists, it is very painful.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Ocotillo,

That is exactly right.

But for me even though there was no physical reason for me to not want sex, there were a lot of times I truly felt like I couldn't do it.

It took me reading on this forum to really realize how my husband was suffering. Even though he has been honest with me, I still never fully understood.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

What does your H do to you or for you that makes you feel loved? 






albertamom3 said:


> Ocotillo,
> 
> That is exactly right.
> 
> ...


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Mem,

He's a hard worker, which allows me to work part-time and be home with my children during the day, He's a great father. He is supportive and excited about our future goals. He is present with me. He listens to me and genuinely cares about my feelings.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

albertamom3 said:


> But for me even though there was no physical reason for me to not want sex, there were a lot of times I truly felt like I couldn't do it.


I can understand that too. My situation is sort of humorous in a way.

My wife and I went years and years where sex could be counted on the fingers of one hand annually. 

Right around the time the youngest was graduating from high school and her rock steady cycle started to falter, something changed in a big way. Suddenly she was the one having trouble concentrating at work; shamed by inappropriate thoughts about attractive work mates and plagued by an insomnia that only sex could cure. 

I had pretty much managed to turn those thoughts off and fill the void with other things at that point and it was surprisingly tough to change that. One thing that gradually helped was just making a conscious effort to think about it during the day. I don't know if this works for everyone, but I've heard other people on TAM say as much.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

It has been helping a lot!!! I am constantly trying to think of sex.
It's harder than it sounds... 

How long did it take for it to be more natural for you?


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
please be sure to let us know how this is working after a couple of weeks. 

I don't know how long it takes for things to feel natural. With my wife and I it was maybe 2 weeks of things seeming slightly awkward / forced, but after that it became completely natural. 

After our recent few-year decline we are trying again. I'll see how it goes this time.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> It took me reading on this forum to really realize how my husband was suffering. Even though he has been honest with me, I still never fully understood.



Would you consider yourself someone who is emphatic and can read people well, if needed?

Was your husband restrained in voicing out his side of things?


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

No, he was not restrained about voicing his concerns. 

To be honest until I read this forum I figured my husband put too much priority on sex.

I know by admitting this I might get some negative comments but that is what I thought.

I would considers myself empathetic but it didn't make any sense to me that I could make him happy in all areas of our marriage except our sex life and that was hurting him so much.

I also felt like I was making an effort even if I was going about it the wrong way.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Nah, nothing negative. You're very kind to provide such valuable insight. This type of stuff is not exactly in the textbooks...

So I guess step 1 was to determine he's unhappy, step 2 is root cause analysis, step 3 is action. 

Step 1 is probably the hardest - as you mentioned you thought he put too much emphasis on sex. Ultimately it's an issue of communication.

For example, I've worked with the same people for 10-15 years. We think to each other rather than talk in our line of work. It's an incredibly efficient group. I rarely have to explain things. They know. But with my wife... It has to be a detailed list with every point argued to oblivion.

Did you feel communication was off? Humans are social animals and they tend to value communication just as much or maybe more than the just physical act of sex.


----------



## TheHappyGuy (Aug 27, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Woody Allen and his *girlfriend* are in a therapy session.
> 
> The therapist: how's your sex life
> Woody: we never have sex
> ...


Do you mean his step daughter? :banned2:


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

TheHappyGuy said:


> Do you mean his step daughter? :banned2:



The scene was from _Annie Hall_ and the "Hardly ever" / "All the time" comments from Alvy Singer (Woody Allen) and Annie Hall (Diane Keaton) really are hilarious. (This was 14/15 years before Soon-Yi Previn)


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

That's really good. I can tell you with certainty that many marriages lack that. And the wife feels unloved. 

I actually expected you to say what you did. Because you do NOT want him to leave you. And you have made that clear throughout this thread. So I figured he was overall a good guy. 

And he is certainly committed, because if he wasn't he would have left a long time ago. 

Is it possible that at times, he is a bit too nice? Too loving? 

FWIW I have no bias regarding this question. No expectation that you will answer it one way or the other. I'm simply trying to rule out a possible desire killer. 

Here's a simple question to ask yourself. And there is no right or wrong answer. Only the truth. And whatever that is, it doesn't make you a cold or unloving partner. 

The truth has no temperature. 

How often do you feel crowded or smothered? And I'm not talking about sex. This could be a situation where you just feel a desire to be alone - but he's in the room. Or you want some quiet time and he's talking. Or he's touching, hugging you and you wish he would stop. Not because it will lead to sex, but simply because you are feeling - something akin to claustrophobia. 






albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> He's a hard worker, which allows me to work part-time and be home with my children during the day, He's a great father. He is supportive and excited about our future goals. He is present with me. He listens to me and genuinely cares about my feelings.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> No, he was not restrained about voicing his concerns.
> 
> To be honest until I read this forum I figured my husband put too much priority on sex.
> 
> ...


First question I would ask: Who comes first, your DH or your children? Your posts to this thread are what I would expect from a partner in a child-centered marriage. Nothing wrong with that as long as both partners have the same priorities. 

Second thought: No one has the right to tell a partner what their needs should be ("he placed too high a priority on sex"). You don't have to agree, but you certainly don't need to invalidate your partner.

My DW asked me a very similar question, Why do you need so much sex? The question she was really asking was, Why do you need more sex than I do? (Perhaps you see the selfishness here). My answer was very clear, Do you understand that we are two different people with two different sets of needs? I will ask you this once, will you make the same level of effort to meet my needs as I will to meet your needs?

The key here is... I get to decide what my needs are ... No one else. In a great marriage, the partners actively seek out to fulfill the needs of the other... They don't consider it a drudgery or a duty.... It's a pleasure.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

My kids definitely come first. Our children are still small so it has been really easy to get caught up with them.

I want to make clear also that I never told my husband that his needs shouldn't be his needs, I just thought (to myself) prior to reading these threads that it didn't make sense.

Just because I didn't understand does not mean I didn't feel horrible for how he felt. I'm sure it is hard for him to understand why I don't feel like having sex.


----------



## SARAHMCD (Jul 2, 2014)

Alberta,
I also find it a bit shocking that your H would be threatening to leave you if you don't have sex more than once per week. You have children!!! Wow. Way to stick to his vows. I honestly don't understand the number of people on here saying they totally agree with him and they would have left long ago. 
I'm in a relationship where we only have sex once every six weeks (I'm not happy about that in the least - I'd kill for once a week!) but I still stay. What would all these people do if their mate became ill or disabled and couldn't have sex. Would they just leave??

Listen, I understand sex can be very important in a relationship - its not only physically pleasurable but also a way to feel love, trust, intimacy and bonding with your mate. And I know for men in particular its a way of showing their mate how much they love them. 
Are you showing him attention and affection besides just in the bedroom - hugging, kissing, flirting?

Are you sure there isn't something deeper going on here? Is there something else missing for him or something he is frustrated about in his life and he's bottling that up into this one problem?

In terms of getting you in the mood, does he treat you the way he did before you were married? In other words, does he make you feel sexy, desirable and loved outside the bedroom as well as in? Is there sufficient foreplay? I know its a bit of a catch 22 for a relationship. A woman needs to feel loved outside the bedroom in order to feel loving, trusting, sexy and open inside the bedroom. And a man needs to be loved inside the bedroom in order to feel close outside.


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

SARAHMCD said:


> Alberta,
> I also find it a bit shocking that your H would be threatening to leave you if you don't have sex more than once per week. You have children!!! Wow. Way to stick to his vows.


I apologize in advance if this sounds harsh. 

There is a concept in ethics called, Concomitant Obligation. It's a fancy way of saying that there is no such thing as a free lunch.

If, for example your spouse made a solemn vow before God and Man to only ever eat food that you personally provided, you would have a concomitant obligation to feed them. If you refused to honor that obligation, your spouse would be in a real pickle, because their options would be reduced to, A) Starving to death, B) Breaking the vow or C) Asking you to be released from it.

Food and sex are not identical equivalents, but I trust that you can see the ethical corollary to the vow of fidelity in the Judeo-Christian marriage tradition. It is the flip side of the exact same moral coin and carries the exact same weight. It is not something that can casually be written off as icing on the cake.

I realize that it is horribly unromantic to express things in quasi-legal terms. I would never in a million years say this to a wife or any other person experiencing loss of desire. Pressure is not helpful and I know this firsthand better than most.

At the same time though, lack of sex in a marriage is a problem that only goes downhill. I cannot give enough kudos to Albertamom for baring her soul here and honestly wanting to fix this.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Sarah,

He didn't technically threaten to leave me, he told me that he would not live in a sexless marriage, He said it was a deal breaker. Before he initially said this to me we had just had our last baby and we were not having very much sex at all.

Since then I had been making an effort to have sex with once week but it was not good for either of us. That is when I started feeling a lot of pressure about having sex with him and I started to feel I couldn't do it anymore.

Since starting to try to figure things out, we both realize that we have had little to no intimacy for a long time. That is where were at now. I am going to try to make changes with my libido and what I hope is that other parts of our marriage may actually start to heal.

I spoke to him this evening after reading your post because I wondered if maybe there was more he wasn't telling me but he insists that he is happy with me.


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

john117 said:


> Nah, nothing negative. You're very kind to provide such valuable insight. This type of stuff is not exactly in the textbooks...
> 
> So I guess step 1 was to determine he's unhappy, step 2 is root cause analysis, step 3 is action.
> 
> ...


Oh I can so relate to the bit in bold! Absolutely the same here. When at work we worked as a team...we all knew our roles and we all knew we could rely and trust each other...ofetn with out saftey and even lives sometimes.
The big difference is that we all went through a load of training.

Perhaps if couples could go on a six (or sex!!!!:smthumbup week marriage training course before saying 'I do'....


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

A happy and successful marriage is made up of a whole load of things.
As I said early on in this thread its about team work, sharing chores - both the nice and the not so nice ones. Working for teh good of the marruage, family unit and home.

Students and house mates do the same. On Monday I will do the shopping and feed the dog, you do the cooking and empty the dishwasher...Tuesday you do x and I will do y and on it goes.

Helping the children with homework 'chore' could be the same as taking the dog for a walk 'chore'.

If my housemate was my spouse we would both have to do all of the above just to make home/family/life work. However there is one major difference to living with a spouse over a housemate....
Yup, you've got it.....sex.

Those of us (men) who have had children know that for maybe the first 6 weeks of the baby's arrival all attention is on baby - and so it should be. Whilst the Mum is the primary 'love/care giver' many 'modern fathers' will change nappies (sorry - 'diapers'!!), do a feed (if bottle), bath etc etc whilst putting his own 'needs' on hold.

BUT....if no love/attention from his wife goes past about six weeks...8 weeks....3 months...6 months...etc sure we start to feel resentful.

A work female colleague once told me; 1st I am me, 2nd I am my husbands wife and lover 3rd I am my childrens mother.

Sure when a child is sick and needs TLC she is a mother 1st but ALL three are equally important.

No sex in a marriage = a marriage that is no more than being housemates. Why get married? 

I married my wife because I loved her, have children with her, spend the rest of my life with her and have good and regular sex with her. Once I had impregnated her twice and she delivered two healthy children, sex was no longer necessary as we had reproduced ourselves (son & daughter). 
We live as housemates...and boy do I resent her.

When I am lying awake in bed in the early hours with my wife sound asleep next to me I often think back to days with one particular long term GF....we'd get into bed tired, spoon....be physically close...neither of us would say anything but we would often end up having loving and passionate sex - love making - and once done often fall asleep spooning with me still inside her. Not only were we on the same page but the same line and even word. Thats all I want. My wife and I arent even in the same library. So when the children leave so will I.

Yes it IS THAT IMPORTANT to me. I need sex to show that person how much I love them and want them and I want them to reciprocate because they WANT to not feel they HAVE to.

Alberta has atleast realised how important sex is to men (her husband) and is trying to do something about it. If only all women (my wife especially) could wake up and smell the kawfee like Alberta has.

Apologies for the whinging!


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

MEM11363 said:


> Alberta,
> 
> That's really good. I can tell you with certainty that many marriages lack that. And the wife feels unloved.
> 
> ...


Mem,

No, This would not apply to us.

It has been a really long time since he has been touchy/feely with me. I don't feel smothered.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening sarahmcd
In a marriage each partner is epected to provide a wide variety of things ranging from love and affection to care of children to doing chores - and taking care of each other's sexual needs.

When someone fails to do their part, it puts their partner in a terrible position. The partner has made a vow to stay with them for better or worse, but that vow can become an unreasonable trap.

Take the extreme case where someone in a marriage decided that they were not going to work or do chores, just sit on the sofa watching TV and drinking beers. Is there spouse still bound to their vows?

A medical issue that prevents someone from doing there part is to my mind a completely different issue. As long as the afflicted person is doing everything reasonable considering their medical condition, then they are doing their best to contribute.

I think that in a marriage you are not required to succeed, but you are required to try. 


On the specific topic of sex, I think people who have an active interest in sex have a very difficult time imagining someone who is not interested. They assume the other person must be doing something "wrong", but if you read some of the LD/HD threads here you will see that that is not always the case. Sometimes people don't want sex even with an essentially perfect partner.






SARAHMCD said:


> Alberta,
> I also find it a bit shocking that your H would be threatening to leave you if you don't have sex more than once per week. You have children!!! Wow. Way to stick to his vows. I honestly don't understand the number of people on here saying they totally agree with him and they would have left long ago.
> I'm in a relationship where we only have sex once every six weeks (I'm not happy about that in the least - I'd kill for once a week!) but I still stay. What would all these people do if their mate became ill or disabled and couldn't have sex. Would they just leave??
> 
> ...


----------



## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

It's pretty obvious you're just not attracted to your husband, he isn't a sexual option to you anymore for whatever reason.

Admit to your husband you just don't love him in that way anymore. Let him find someone who does. To not be honest just so you can keep him around until a suitable replacement rears its head is selfish.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

*Re: Re: Tired of felling inadequate.*



cuchulain36 said:


> It's pretty obvious you're just not attracted to your husband, he isn't a sexual option to you anymore for whatever reason.
> 
> Admit to your husband you just don't love him in that way anymore. Let him find someone who does. To not be honest just so you can keep him around until a suitable replacement rears its head is selfish.


Do you have anything constructive to contribute to this dialogue?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

That's good. 

Since you have been remarkably candid about your situation, I want to zoom in on what a typical experience feels like for you. 

I have zero interest in the mechanics of what your H is doing. 

Instead, I want to know what's happening in your head, from start to finish. 

How well are you able to stay 'in the moment', vs being distracted by the long 'to do list' that you manage every day. 

How well are you able to relax and let your H get you to the point where you are pulling HIM forward. 

How often are you getting impatient with YOUR body. As in - the self talk that goes like this: hurry up and get turned on so we can get this going and then finish it and I can get back to my to do list?

And how often do you feel that your H is rushing you? 

And I saved the scariest question for last. At what points, and how often are you feeling resentful that you even have to 'do' this for your H? 

BTW: As a loyal wife, you have been very firm about your H knowing how to get you in the mood. 

While I commend your loyalty, I don't believe you. 

Don't get me wrong. Your H definitely knew how to get the younger, hormonally flooded version of you turned on. He was good for you and vice versa. 

But I believe you two both must relearn what the current (hormone lite - child focused) version of you needs. 

And I can tell from your posts that you are struggling with that. 

One last thing - and this is purely a guess. 

Both you and your H have allowed your various life responsibilities to get in the way of being playful with each other. You are both too serious. 

The best best thing in the world about playful conflict is that it requires focus and temporarily blocks out all the background noise/anxiety in your head. 

It's the best form of foreplay. Or pre foreplay. 

The subtext in your posts is - commitment - which is a beautiful thing. 

What I keep listening for, and don't hear is the music playing in the background. 






albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> No, This would not apply to us.
> 
> It has been a really long time since he has been touchy/feely with me. I don't feel smothered.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

cuchulain36 said:


> It's pretty obvious you're just not attracted to your husband, he isn't a sexual option to you anymore for whatever reason.
> 
> Admit to your husband you just don't love him in that way anymore. Let him find someone who does. To not be honest just so you can keep him around until a suitable replacement rears its head is selfish.



Until I know that for myself, I am happy to try to change some things with me, with the sincere hope that we can salvage what we once had.

In the meantime he will have to suffer/enjoy my attempts at getting back my libido!


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Both you and your H have allowed your various life responsibilities to get in the way of being playful with each other. You are both too serious.



Bingo. There's the wife role, the mom role, the parent caretaker role, the office drone role, PTO volunteer role...

That's what compartmentalization is all about. 

The "playful" part is the operative term here. It's what allows a late Sunday sleep in without worrying too much about chores and work stress.


----------



## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

albertamom3 said:


> In the meantime he will have to suffer/enjoy my attempts at getting back my libido!



The only way to get your libido back is to be sexually attracted to your man. If you can't see your husband as attractive and a sexual option your libido will never come back. 

Your libido is not you, it's him, you don't view him sexually appealing at all, therefore the idea of sex with him is a huge turnoff.

I would just be honest with him, maybe it will spur him on to make drastic changes with or without you in his life.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Mem,

Prior to me starting this thread:

I felt very resentful(pressured) Only I didn't blame him for it, I blamed myself. 

We did not have any pre-sex foreplay, in the bedroom yes but not before hand. Usually there would something said "Do we have an appointment tonight?" "How are you feeling today?" from my husband to get an idea if we were going to have sex.

Now I see that this is one of the problems....Obviously right?

My husband was unhappy with me and he retreated, he stopped being intimate with me, he stopped flirting and petting and flat out enjoying me. I was so busy with my head in the clouds to realize that this is what I was missing. Instead I just got to the point where I couldn't have sex with him anymore.

I agree with you that we will have to relearn how to be good lovers to each other again, things are very different now.

But for the last couple weeks I have been really trying to overcome my lack of interest and it is actually working. Although awkward at times I can see that I am making him happy, and this makes me happy. 

He has been so much more affectionate to me lately, and I know I will have to communicate better to him what I need but right now I don't want to ruin things. I want him to know I own my involvement in this and I don't want him to think that I am trying to misplace blame.

Prior to having kids sex did not take so much thought.... we just enjoyed each other. So simple.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
You are doing what he wants and needs, so don't be hesitant about telling him your wants and needs. Not as some sort of trade, but I expect he really wants to know.

You say he is being more affectionate which is great. You just need to gently let him know what sorts of affection you want. He also has some bad habits to unlearn and may not have a good idea of what to do. 

There will be a bit of akwardness as you settle down into a new affectionate routine, but it sounds like it is working. :smthumbup:





albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> Prior to me starting this thread:
> 
> ...


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

cuchulain36 said:


> The only way to get your libido back is to be sexually attracted to your man. If you can't see your husband as attractive and a sexual option your libido will never come back.
> 
> Your libido is not you, it's him, you don't view him sexually appealing at all, therefore the idea of sex with him is a huge turnoff.
> 
> I would just be honest with him, maybe it will spur him on to make drastic changes with or without you in his life.


I disagree with this post entirely and I have been honest with him.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cuchulain,
Perhaps it's best you take your angry bitter self elsewhere.

Otherwise someone will report you to the mods. They take a dim view of your style of posting. 


QUOTE=cuchulain36;10816346]It's pretty obvious you're just not attracted to your husband, he isn't a sexual option to you anymore for whatever reason.

Admit to your husband you just don't love him in that way anymore. Let him find someone who does. To not be honest just so you can keep him around until a suitable replacement rears its head is selfish.[/QUOTE]


----------



## cuchulain36 (Jul 8, 2014)

Perhaps you should leave the moderating to the moderators? Your posts directed at me are doing nobody any good here.

My last post is good advice and right on the money even if difficult to hear. But nothing in it against the TOS.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's more an issue of honesty and direct communication than one of attraction. If someone is not attracted to their partner they need to bring it up early and often rather than resort in the various mind games that grace the server farms of TAM. 

One typically has sex with their partner because of mutual attraction and desire or because of "duty" or "obligation" or because of "habit". It is a blow to the ego to find that it isn't the first reason so...


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

cuchulain36 said:


> Perhaps you should leave the moderating to the moderators? Your posts directed at me are doing nobody any good here.
> 
> My last post is good advice and right on the money even if difficult to hear. But nothing in it against the TOS.


Albertamom3 is an important contributor to TAM. I am surprised she has staid around to post in spite of hostile diatribes like yours. 

She is getting the assistance she needs and honestly revealing what is on her mind. It's not popular but it is real. Please don't drive her away by assuming that your situation bears any resemblance to hers. I think that if you read the whole thread, you may change your mind about who and what she is.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Qft^3





catherine602 said:


> albertamom3 is an important contributor to tam. I am surprised she has staid around to post in spite of hostile diatribes like yours.
> 
> She is getting the assistance she needs and honestly revealing what is on her mind. It's not popular but it is real. Please don't drive her away by assuming that your situation bears any resemblance to hers. I think that if you read the whole thread, you may change your mind about who and what she is.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

AM has been showing the kind of insights and self reflection that many of us dream we could get from our wives.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> AM has been showing the kind of insights and self reflection that many of us dream we could get from our wives.



If only we could synthesize said insight and self reflection in the lab in pill form


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> AM has been showing the kind of insights and self reflection that many of us dream we could get from our wives.


This. So much.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Alberta,

Awkward is totally normal during a reboot. 

And blame is about looking backward. 

We are just suggesting that you make sure to convey what you want to your H.

That said, if he is making you feel good - that is great news.






albertamom3 said:


> Mem,
> 
> Prior to me starting this thread:
> 
> ...


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Respectfully, you have not begun to address the problem, only the symptom (DH's needs not being met). A previous poster suggested the OP needs to communicate ... what should she communicate to her DH?

A child-centered marriage, by definition, places the partner's needs second (sometime a distance second) behind the children. Of course you are going to resent meeting your DH's needs if doing so means crowding out the needs of the children. You are free to create whatever priorities you desire, but if your partner is not on the same page, there will always be resentment created. Resentment increases emotional disconnection over time and that ultimately kills marriages. 

One poster suggested that the children's needs should always come first. Look... you DO NOT GET TO TELL another adult what their values should be (and then trying to shame them into compliance with your beliefs ... good grief!) If your DH's needs are a deal breaker ... just tell him and get it out in the open.

OP, I read your response to my post. You said, "I never told him directly about what I thought". You told him very directly what you thought of his needs every single time you rejected him. I think it's great that you are trying to fix this, but you can't fix this without discussing relationship priorities with your DH.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Lately I have read a lot of threads about men not being able to get their wives to try? to understand? to get it?

I have sooooooooo wanted to post replies on some of these threads except I feel like I am still trying to figure things out for myself and really might not be able to provide very good advice.

So I wanted to share something on my thread so no one could get offended with me about not knowing anything. Remember this is my thread so be nice....lol

My H and I are still doing really good, sex is frequent and good quality without any pressure. 

What I wanted to share is that going through this process has made me realize how good it feels to be sexual(as in for myself not just for my husband). I know that this sounds selfish but I FEEL SO GOOD.

This is an unexpected bonus to the work my H and I are doing to reconnect. I would have never thought it was possible for me. I am about the least sexual person I know.

So I wonder if this could be helpful when speaking with your wives. You can remind them of what they are missing? Ask them to remember what it was like when they were horny for you. Make them realize that they would like to be sexual again for themselves not just for you???


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> Lately I have read a lot of threads about men not being able to get their wives to try? to understand? to get it?
> 
> I have sooooooooo wanted to post replies on some of these threads except I feel like I am still trying to figure things out for myself and really might not be able to provide very good advice.
> 
> ...


You discovered this for yourself ... your motivation was your own. You can try reminding a partner of times past, but ultimately they decide how they will respond. I think it's better to talk about what you need, what you miss, what you long for. Ask your partner to join you and let them make their decision. I've learned that I have to respect my partner's decision to not meet my needs. I no longer try to manipulate her into meeting my needs. We get married to meet the needs we cannot meet on our own. A partner that chooses to ignore this is no partner at all. I am happy you figured this out ... as you can read on TAM, such insight is rather rare.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

They don't need reminding. They know. All they have to do is turn on the TV and see images of happy people bring intimate in some way or another.

But to them it's all about control. There's this well known experiment in psychology that you tell a little kid that they can have one candy today as a reward or wait a day and they will have two candy pieces. Most kids take one candy today, some kids - generally the smarter ones - take the delayed approach. 

Those women take it to extreme, with super delayed gratification and vastly reduced frequency being preferable to more frequent sex as long as "they are in control". It makes no sense but still...


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

albertamom3 said:


> It wasn't until I read threads here that I realized that for a lot of people sex is VERY important, and it is so important that he might actually leave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If I leave my wife, it won't be because of the "lack of sex", it will be because the rejection I feel every waking hour when I happen to think of her has become more burden than I can bear, and the resentment for her perpetual indifference that I feel and can no longer find ways to dispense of.



I sympathize with you, and I sympathize with my wife (more so with you, as you found your way here and are clearly trying). Human brains don't like to hear that they need to do X or else there will be uncomfortable consequences. When the Other would enjoy the benefits of you doing X, or is emotionally invested in you doing X, then talk of consequences feels like a threat and demand. I can think of specific examples where I have felt such apparent threats and demands. I suppose such a tendency to have such feelings has had survival value, as certainly our ancestors survived by guarding what others want to take away through deceit and intimidation and more or less veiled threats.



If your H is like me, his revelations to you are not a threat and he does not want to take something from you. He wants desperately to create something with you -- a moment, a relatively brief moment, in time and in a world that is fleeting, a moment of connectedness, filled simultaneously with selfish and other-focused pleasure.



I get that, for some time, it has been anything but pleasure for you. He probably knows that by now, too.



I just wish you could see -- and feel to your bones -- that his interest in "having sex" with you, and "warnings" from him or others that a pattern of "not having sex" can set in motion a destructive sequence that eventually cannot be stopped -- these are not attempts to coerce you. Instead, they are like gifts from ****ens' Ghost of Christmas Future (not that you are a pathological miserly Scrooge!). It's just that some know or sense how the pattern of sexlessness and disconnect goes in the long term, and our exit from this world is guaranteed. A loving and mutually satisfying relationship can bring joy and contentment in the mean time. You both have power to make that happen for yourselves and each other, though sometimes that means a willingness to stand (or lay) naked and be vulnerable and generous.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

albertamom3 said:


> Lately I have read a lot of threads about men not being able to get their wives to try? to understand? to get it?
> 
> I have sooooooooo wanted to post replies on some of these threads except I feel like I am still trying to figure things out for myself and really might not be able to provide very good advice.
> 
> ...


I like a happy ending (or beginning?)


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening albertamom3
your post made me smile. It is so good to see a relationship that is getting better.

BTW - enjoying sex is not in the least selfish. On of the best parts of lovemaking is enjoying the pleasure that your partner is getting, so your enjoyment is his enjoyment.

:smthumbup:




albertamom3 said:


> Lately I have read a lot of threads about men not being able to get their wives to try? to understand? to get it?
> 
> I have sooooooooo wanted to post replies on some of these threads except I feel like I am still trying to figure things out for myself and really might not be able to provide very good advice.
> 
> ...


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

albertamom3 said:


> I have sooooooooo wanted to post replies on some of these threads except I feel like I am still trying to figure things out for myself and really might not be able to provide very good advice.....
> 
> So I wonder if this could be helpful when speaking with your wives. You can remind them of what they are missing? Ask them to remember what it was like when they were horny for you. Make them realize that they would like to be sexual again for themselves not just you???


No need to be shy about sharing your advice. Most people wouldn't be here if they had not already run out of ideas on their own....

You have a very valuable perspective on this subject.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Alberta, I hope you do join in other threads. Your perspective, how detached you had become from your own sexuality can be invaluable to helping others. Also, writing out your own thoughts as it pertains to others helps to crystallize and further gain insight into your own journey.

Bon voyage!


----------



## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> No need to be shy about sharing your advice. Most people wouldn't be here if they had not already run out of ideas on their own....
> 
> You have a very valuable perspective on this subject.





Yes, very valuable. Please say anything that comes to mind and you are willing to share and don't feel you have to have things all figured out and settled in your mind first. Many are struggling with this sort of issue, and are grateful for any bits of experience and introspection. Some of our spouses have not been articulate and introspective.



I too am glad to hear you have made progress in your situation.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> The hormone slump after childbirth "typically" inhibits sex drive in women. Feelings of being overwhelmed "typically" prolong this slump.


Yes, I know all about this typical slump.

But, there is more here. I was alluding to the OP's attitude which told her "we have the perfect-sized family". This caused a big shift in her sex outlook from "sex is great" to "why bother".

So, this is not a temporary slump in drive. It is a potentially (if the OP hadn't objected) permanent degradation of her drive from something that stood on its own in the marriage as a source of joy to a means to an end that had been achieved. Now, we have shifted back only part way to "I'll try and find a way to do it if it makes him happy".

IMO, the best answer is simply for her to figure out where she got off-track with her sex drive and downgraded it to "no longer important to me". While of course he should make sure he keeps romancing her, it seems clear to me that her attitude shift was the main driver of the sex issue, and complete resolution will not come until she "undoes" that shift.

ETA: I know this is a fairly late response to your post, but wanted to close the loop on it.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

DTO said:


> Yes, I know all about this typical slump.
> 
> But, there is more here. I was alluding to the OP's attitude which told her "we have the perfect-sized family". This caused a big shift in her sex outlook from "sex is great" to "why bother".
> 
> ...





I have figured out a lot of new issues while my H and I have been reconnecting. I didn't lose my drive because my family was complete. It was shortly after I had my last child that my H told me how unhappy he was. This was the shift for me.

I have always had a lower drive than him, the difference was before he told me how he was feeling I was happy to make him happy even if I wasn't really into it.

After my third baby, I was overwhelmed. I definitely got caught up with my family and the needs of my children and my home and my work. My H was definitely neglected, but it was the same for him. We were so busy. I was on the bottom of his priority list too.

When he told me how unhappy he was and how he wanted to have more sex, he ruined it. He made it about sex and not about love. How could he say I love you, you treat me good, your a good mother but I am unhappy because I want more sex????? This is what I thought.

That was the shift for me.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

I just wanted to add that my last statement means nothing anymore.

I have zero intentions/fears of feeling that way again. This is thanks to TAM. I never really got it until reading other threads and posts about how men feel in regards to sex. My mind set is completely different.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

So Alberta, if you husband had framed his speech differently would you have understood better? What do you think might have been a quicker way to reconnect you with your sexual self?


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> So Alberta, if you husband had framed his speech differently would you have understood better? What do you think might have been a quicker way to reconnect you with your sexual self?


For me, It may have been easier to understand if he expressed his feeling of being undesired, if he would have expressed his need to connect with me and be intimate with me and also feel it being reciprocated. Maybe if he would have told me he was worried about my lack of desire vs the lack of sex?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sex does not equal love. Sex does not equal desire. Sex does not equal wanting. Sex is just sex.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

albertamom3 said:


> I have figured out a lot of new issues while my H and I have been reconnecting. I didn't lose my drive because my family was complete. It was shortly after I had my last child that my H told me how unhappy he was. This was the shift for me.
> 
> I have always had a lower drive than him, the difference was before he told me how he was feeling I was happy to make him happy even if I wasn't really into it.
> 
> ...


Alberta I felt the same way when my husband withdrew from me because we were having less sex when we got busy with kids. It took reading books and TAM to really understand that he missed and needed me. Isn't it strange how beliefs and assumptions make a positive vital need so negative?


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I just realized the spelling of this thread title. Made me chuckle coming from a logging community.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

*Re: Tired of feeling inadequate.*



WorkingOnMe said:


> I just realized the spelling of this thread title. Made me chuckle coming from a logging community.


LOL...I didn't even notice.


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

How do I edit it? It's going to drive me crazy now.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Don't worry a lot of people are inadequate at felling. I've actually never done it myself!


----------



## albertamom3 (Oct 15, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Don't worry a lot of people are inadequate at felling. I've actually never done it myself!


Too funny.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mostly we initiate via tilted head and a certain smile.

But sometimes we use words. Favoring an economy of speech M2 sometimes says:

tonight? 

If she's feeling chatty she says

Do you want to connect tonight? 






albertamom3 said:


> For me, It may have been easier to understand if he expressed his feeling of being undesired, if he would have expressed his need to connect with me and be intimate with me and also feel it being reciprocated. Maybe if he would have told me he was worried about my lack of desire vs the lack of sex?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Sex does not equal love. Sex does not equal desire. Sex does not equal wanting. Sex is just sex.



I have heard the exact quote from my super LD wife...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

And a refusal to have regular sex with an intimate partner who you expect/demand monogamy from is a VERY unloving thing to do. 




Anon Pink said:


> Sex does not equal love. Sex does not equal desire. Sex does not equal wanting. Sex is just sex.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

John before you joined, I think, I had a thread asking if people felt loved during sex. I tried to break it down to figure out what I was missing. As I recall, not one person stated they felt loved through sex, but it created an intimacy afterwards that is unmatched by anything else a couple can do, except gorge on Cinnabons because...hey Cinnabons are totally orgasmic!

So sex is just sex. But sex and intimacy with your significant other does create love. Men need to learn to communicate this better.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> And a refusal to have regular sex with an intimate partner who you expect/demand monogamy from is a VERY unloving thing to do.


Yes very unloving. Because it's not just denying the opportunity to connect and bond so intimately, but it is compounded by rejecting them. So its a double whammy to the connection.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening anon_pink
I have to disagree. I think that for many people sex, love, affection, desire, self respect etc are all tightly bound together into a complicated bundle of emotions that can't really be pried apart.

In my case, my desire for sex is largely a desire to be desired (ego?). Its why paying for sex has absolutely no interest for me. Other people want other things.




Anon Pink said:


> Sex does not equal love. Sex does not equal desire. Sex does not equal wanting. Sex is just sex.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm going to try to explain why for many women, sex is just sex and doesn't equal love. But I'm on my iPad and ever since I updated to iOS 8.1 it's been a total PIA!!!

I'll come back later tonight when I can get on my computer.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Violently agree with the post below. 

It's why I would never say to M2, do you want to have sex?

And why, if I verbalize it, I go with either: 
1. Do you want to connect tonight?
Or
2. I'm taking you tonight - wear the red negligee 

(1) Is mostly my default style. (2) Is merely my way of hitting her dopamine trigger. 

(1) Bonding - (2) passion. 







richardsharpe said:


> Good evening anon_pink
> I have to disagree. I think that for many people sex, love, affection, desire, self respect etc are all tightly bound together into a complicated bundle of emotions that can't really be pried apart.
> 
> In my case, my desire for sex is largely a desire to be desired (ego?). Its why paying for sex has absolutely no interest for me. Other people want other things.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Success is predicated on the rest of one's environment being reasonably stable. I don't think my parents were hitting it on very well living in tents with the (WW2) Germans bombing the area on a regular basis. 

A lot of immigrants like me often operate in "glass is half empty" mode for that reason. We know we have it good relatively to what we had back in the old country but things tend to change quickly, and usually for the worse. 

For many of us, success story in the context of this thread involves being able to convince ourselves and/or our partners that despite the constant flow of not so great news, we can be "me happy, no worry".


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening anon pink
please do. Its a very interesting discussion - what you describe is often considered a typically "male" concept to sex - that may not at all match reality. 

I'm wondering if men are actually more likely to equate sex and love, while for women it is just a physical act..... Each has been projecting their feelings on the other. 



Anon Pink said:


> I'm going to try to explain why for many women, sex is just sex and doesn't equal love. But I'm on my iPad and ever since I updated to iOS 8.1 it's been a total PIA!!!
> 
> I'll come back later tonight when I can get on my computer.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Sex does not equal love; but it can if the conditions are right. Sex does not equal desire for or from the other person; but it can if the conditions are right. Sex is just sex; unless there is something more present that makes it something else. And that something else can be fleeting, can be consistent, or a once in a lifetime condition that changes sex to love.

Women were raised to keep their legs together unless certain conditions were present, a commitment, a ring, or a ceremony... or maybe just a nice smile, privacy and a condom!  

Every woman that reads this can look back at her HS days and remember when rumors got around about so and so loosing their virginity. The girl had given up something, the boy got something. The girl was never congratulated. We looked at her differently and it wasn't in a positive light, although not always a negative light. The boy conversely was congratulated. We looked at him differently and it was in a positive light. He had accomplished something. She had not accomplished anything.

Even if the above couple had been dating for two years and were in love, he had accomplished something, she had given up something. No one ever looked at the couple and made a kissy face about how in love they must be to be having sex. No One. having sex didn't mean they were in love, it meant they were having sex.

Fast forward to college. Liberated co-ed is in love with her boyfriend and they have sex. The love part came first. The sex came because the love was already there. Sex did not mean love, sex mean sex and love meant love and while ideal the two should be combined they are only combined when love is already present and the sex is filled with loving affirmations...and sex generally is not filled with loving affirmations.

Fast forward to early marriage. We're in love, of course, we're married so sex and love and marriage...we've got all three now! But after a time, the love part the things that made you fall in love in the first place peter out. Doesn't matter who started first or why, but it does. She used to rub his back and watch him in the mirror as he shaved in the morning. He used to blow on her nails after she painted them so they would dry faster. Doesn't matter what they used to do, it stopped. But they are still having sex. The loving actions stopped but sex continued.

Fast forward to kids, ARGH kids! Loving actions.... long gone. Loving words, kinda still there. Affectionate alone time, what is that? Sex is not including these loving words and loving actions, sex is now just sex. 

This is why I think quickies should be outlawed if you have a child under the age 10! He wants sex. He wants to feel she loves him. He wants to feel desired. I'm not sure how he can feel loved and desired on a quickie? 

So what are the conditions that make sex equal love and desire for a woman?
1. Nonsexual affection on a consistent and regular basis.
2. Emotional connection via meeting emotional needs.
3. Don't be a d!ck.
3. Holding and lovingly stroking her afterward communicates love very loudly.
4. Saying loving things during sex.
5. Communicating that sex with her has meaning like nothing else does.
6. Loving eye contact.

And yes, sex can be rough and wild and still be loving. Mr Pink sometimes holds me so firmly I can't get up afterward, like he wont let me go... this girl LOVES that! Other times he moves and helps me up because my legs are still jelly. This girl loves that too.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The problem is, how many women in their 50's believe their husbands if they express the above verbally and / or by their actions?

As my wife said, the love stuff is for young people. Given that LD creeps up with age, how is one to know that love itself does not evaporate with old age, leaving a sticky residue of familiarity and convenience?

Love is all about the meaning behind sex, as you said; but do we condition people to be comfortable enough with their own emotions and vulnerabilities to actually look for the meaning? Or is it all about rolling in the sheets?


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

john117 said:


> The problem is, how many women in their 50's believe their husbands if they express the above verbally and / or by their actions?
> 
> As my wife said, the love stuff is for young people. Given that LD creeps up with age, how is one to know that love itself does not evaporate with old age, leaving a sticky residue of familiarity and convenience?
> 
> *Love is all about the meaning behind sex, as you said; but do we condition people to be comfortable enough with their own emotions and vulnerabilities to actually look for the meaning? Or is it all about rolling in the sheets?*



Hi, my name is Anon Pink and I'm 52. 

A tricky question because the answer is different for each sex, IMO.

Women are conditioned that sex is something they GIVE and love is something they GET. Only when a woman deliberates the meaning of giving sex and getting love can she come to see her own conditioning and break free from it.

Conversely, men ...well I don't know about men. You guys are weird.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

True that. It's hard for older people to visualize love - I think we are cynical enough to always have the little voice in our head ask us what's in there for us. And since I can't measure love with my lab instrumentation, and since my wife's supercomputer can't derive it from existing data, it don't exist. Or so she thinks 

Ultimately I think that's what causes a lot of LD. It's the fight between "what's love" and "what's in it for me" with the latter winning.


----------



## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

john117 said:


> Love is all about the meaning behind sex, as you said; but do we condition people to be comfortable enough with their own emotions and vulnerabilities to actually look for the meaning?


Thought provoking question! We can prepare loved ones for the journey of love's discovery, but only they can decide to embark.


----------



## being the best me (Apr 25, 2011)

Last few responses have got me confused?

From the first day I saw my wife I loved her unconditionally. I never waivvered. 25 years together married 20 and 4 chillldren. I have done more than my part in our mairage and we both work.

I have always felt love and sex to be the same and couldn't imagine having one without the other. Of course love came first but it has remained constant and still growing. Our sex life has grown leaps and bounds over that time and my wife gets more and more beautiful every day. Was it always that way no but considering we met when I was 18 and she was 15 I think we have come a long way. 

Our sex life isn't vanilla buy a long shot, toys, outdoors, multi hour F-fests, anal etc,etc. I couldn't imagine slowing down or getting to old to give up but with all that said before, during and afterwards the love for my wife grows and grows while I hold her tightly as we fall asleep. 

So those are my thoughts and I hope the OP is able to achieve that level of love/sex with her husband and so far I looks promising.


----------

