# Broken my one rule



## ook

I am a health freak and it is very important to me that my daughter is raised with a healthy diet. I realise that my dietary ideals are quite extreme for most people including my wife. So I do tolerate my daughter being fed all kinds of crap.. Cakes biscuits etc.. Sometimes I will even buy her some chocolate or something myself. 

I have had one very strict rule however and that is no fast food. This probably isn't the right place to rant on about my feelings against fast food.. But to say I have very strong feelings about it and I want us to keep our daughter well away. 
I have made this clear on many occasions. It is pretty much the one and only boundary I have been very clear about. 

So tonight the wife is running a little late and can't get our kid back in time for dinner. She says she will grab a bite for her on the way home. When she comes home my daughter proudly shows me her new happy meal toy. The car stinks of that putrid McFrys smell. The wife admits she has taken her to McDonald's. 

I am at a complete loss now. On the one hand I can see that I might be being a bit ridiculous. Other kids are being abused by their parents and all she had was a happy meal. But on the other hand I feel completely betrayed. 

If the wife doesn't respect my wishes in this regard she isnt going to respect my wishes for anything. I don't feel I can trust her with anything now. 

We haven't been getting on that great lately but the past few days I have been making a real effort and we have been patching things up again. I don't know if this is just her trying to test me or trying to prove something or what.. 

I really don't know how to handle this.


----------



## EleGirl

You allow your daughter to eat cakes, biscuits, and chocolate.. but then you have a hissy fit over a happy meal. That is arbitrary.

Do remember that your wife has as much say a you do over what your child eats.

What might be a better idea than picking on one thing as proof that your wife resepects you, instead come to a joint agreement with her of how many times a week it's ok for your daughter to have some junk food. 

I've read that if a person eats right 80% of the time.. they will not be harmed by eating less than perfect food 20% of the time.


----------



## ook

I really struggled when my wife was feeding her biscuits. We had plenty of arguments over that and in the end i just had to compromise and accept that she was going to eat cake. I just had to do what I could to limit it. 

My daughter was born extremely premature and so had a very tough start in life. I really want to make up for it as much as possible through an extremely healthy diet.

My wife is obese and puts very little thought into diet. 

I really do feel strongly that it isn't about who has the most say but what is actually best for the child. And I have put a lot more effort into looking into what is best. My wife has put no effort in and just feeds her junk because she is too lazy to put the effort or thought into preparing nutritious food. 

I have to just give simple guidelines to try to steer her in the right direction. Sure the odd fast food wouldn't kill her but if she steps over the line with my daughters health like she has her own then it will open up the flood gates to all kinds of bad habits. My daughter is at a critical stage of her development and I can't just stop fighting to make it count as much as possible.


----------



## soccermom2three

I agree that fast food should not be eaten all the time but if you make big deal about it and make it taboo, she is just going to want to eat it more. Then she will learn to sneak or hide food from you and that comes with a whole other set of problems.

My daughter had a Korean friend in high school. The parents only made Korean/Asian dishes and snacks at home. The girl would gorge herself on the food they served at the high school or she would ask her friends if she could have whatever food they didn't finish. She told them it was the only time she ate American food.


----------



## ook

I think there is a difference between banning it completely and just not being the ones responsible for introducing it to her. If she was invited to a friends party at one of these places I would let her go and not make a big deal about it. 

When she is older and we can talk about these things and she asked to go we could explain to here the social and physical impact of these places. If she still wanted to go I would say sure but you ain't seeing me dead in there. 

Right now she is four and a complete open book. These places wouldn't even occur to her if her mother hadn't brought her there. 

It is not as though she is completely deprived. She eats plenty of burgers and fries when we go to other restaurants. 

One could draw comparisons with marijuana. I have a teenage son. I would not allow him to take it. I expect my wife would not give it to him. I would be fuming if she did. I imagine most people would agree with me. 

I don't think he is, but if he is then he is smoking it behind my back and keeping it secret from me. That is fine by me. By not openly accepting it he is certainly not smoking enough for me to detect a difference. His grades aren't suffering. 

I know other parents who let their kids openly smoke I the house. These kids are stoned all the time.


----------



## ook

I don't really want this to become a debate over whether fast food is good for kids or not. The real reason I am stuck is that I want and have asked my wife to support me in bringing up our child in a particular way and she said she she would (after some debate) . Then I find out she hasn't. I have been lied to and let down.


----------



## Blondilocks

"She says she will grab a bite for her on the way home."

What were her options? Fast food, restaurant or deli counter at a grocery store. All three are equal in my book. A burger & fries is a burger & fries regardless of where they are prepared.

You have a right to be disappointed. You also have a right to discuss acceptable alternatives with your wife for any future needs.


----------



## lifeistooshort

The real issue is that you think you have final say in what your daughter eats. You don't. She has another parent, so maybe your wife should stick her nose into your parenting? It's one thing to discuss preferences but quite another to lay out YOUR expectations and demand your daughter's other parent respect them. Your wife isn't your child, so when was it decided that you had the final say? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

Blondilocks said:


> All three are equal in my book.


They are all equal for you. They are not all equal for me.

I live in a country where over 25% of the population is obese. Just because something is normal and generally accepted does not mean that I have to accept them. I feel that a lot of things that most people think are fine are completely crazy and totally not acceptable for how I want to raise my kids.

She had a lot of options. One of them could even have been to tell me that she was going to break the promise she made to me and take her to a fast food place rather than wait until I accidentally discovered.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> The real issue is that you think you have final say in what your daughter eats. You don't. She has another parent, so maybe your wife should stick her nose into your parenting? It's one thing to discuss preferences but quite another to lay out YOUR expectations and demand your daughter's other parent respect them. Your wife isn't your child, so when was it decided that you had the final say?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The issue is that we came to an agreement which she broke.

Granted I was quite strong in getting her to this agreement because it is a subject I do feel very strongly about, but if she wasn't going to follow it anyway she should have told me rather than just go ahead and break it anyway.

There are plenty of other things I disagree with, but put up with anyway because my wife strongly about them. If it was up to me we would not have a television in the house, but because my wife feels strongly about it we do. My daughter watches way to much tv and it really tears me up that she does. But we agreed we would get one, so I deal with it.

Should she have agreed to have a kid with me if she wasn't going to take on my wishes for how she should be raised?


----------



## happy as a clam

I agree with EleGirl. Your "no fast food rule" is totally arbitrary. If your daughter gets to eat burgers and fries at "regular" restaurants, well, she's still pretty much eating junk. Same garbage food except its on a dinner plate and not a styrofoam box.

I believe your real issue is your wife's obesity. The other issue here is control -- you have no control over your wife's weight, so you're going to make darn sure you control your daughters.

I agree that your wife is not honoring an agreement that you made. But people have a hard time sticking to "agreements" when they are arbitrary and don't make sense to them. McDonalds once or twice a year in an emergency isn't going to hurt anyone. 

I suggest you address the real issue which is your wife's obesity and laziness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

ook said:


> The issue is that we came to an agreement which she broke.
> 
> Granted I was quite strong in getting her to this agreement because it is a subject I do feel very strongly about, but if she wasn't going to follow it anyway she should have told me rather than just go ahead and break it anyway.
> 
> There are plenty of other things I disagree with, but put up with anyway because my wife strongly about them. If it was up to me we would not have a television in the house, but because my wife feels strongly about it we do. My daughter watches way to much tv and it really tears me up that she does. But we agreed we would get one, so I deal with it.
> 
> Should she have agreed to have a kid with me if she wasn't going to take on my wishes for how she should be raised?



Yet you married and had a child with a woman that you you consider obese and lazy. Why? 

When your wife told you she didn't have time to fix dinner did you offer to fix dinner or take care of it? Did you make suggestions on what to pick up? Did you bother to ask your wife what she was thinking when she chose McDonald's? Perhaps you should have a calm discussion with her regarding her thoughts and whether she thinks it reasonable to avoid it, and how these situations can be handled in the future.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> Yet you married and had a child with a woman that you you consider obese and lazy. Why?
> 
> When your wife told you she didn't have time to fix dinner did you offer to fix dinner or take care of it? Did you make suggestions on what to pick up? Did you bother to ask your wife what she was thinking when she chose McDonald's? Perhaps you should have a calm discussion with her regarding her thoughts and whether she thinks it reasonable to avoid it, and how these situations can be handled in the future.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When we got together she had a perfect figure. She was only marginally overweight when we she got pregnant. She has only piled on the pounds since the birth of our daughter.

When she phoned I was in the process of fixing dinner. She could have waited an extra 15 minutes and eaten when she got home if she wanted. She was just running late because she lost track of time in the swimming pool. I didn't make any suggestions because I trusted her. 

We have had many calm and not so calm discussions about this before. They generally end with her giving me the impression that she agrees to accept my wishes.


----------



## happy as a clam

ook said:


> When we got together she had a perfect figure.


Ahhhhh.... this reinforces my previous point (see post #11 above). I think this is more about your wife's weight than your daughter's diet and nutrition.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ook said:


> When we got together she had a perfect figure. She was only marginally overweight when we she got pregnant. She has only piled on the pounds since the birth of our daughter.
> 
> When she phoned I was in the process of fixing dinner. She could have waited an extra 15 minutes and eaten when she got home if she wanted. She was just running late because she lost track of time in the swimming pool. I didn't make any suggestions because I trusted her.
> 
> We have had many calm and not so calm discussions about this before. They generally end with her giving me the impression that she agrees to accept my wishes.


I don't get this. I can't imagine phoning my hb and him telling me he's fixing dinner and then getting other food instead when I was heading home. Now I wonder if this is a symptom of a greater issue.... she chose to get fast food, knowing you don't like it, when she knew you were home making dinner. Why? Either she hates your cooking or this is a power struggle. I'm thinking option 2, so the next question is why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

happy as a clam said:


> I agree with EleGirl. Your "no fast food rule" is totally arbitrary. If your daughter gets to eat burgers and fries at "regular" restaurants, well, she's still pretty much eating junk. Same garbage food except its on a dinner plate and not a styrofoam box.
> 
> I believe your real issue is your wife's obesity. The other issue here is control -- you have no control over your wife's weight, so you're going to make darn sure you control your daughters.
> 
> I agree that your wife is not honoring an agreement that you made. But people have a hard time sticking to "agreements" when they are arbitrary and don't make sense to them. McDonalds once or twice a year in an emergency isn't going to hurt anyone.
> 
> I suggest you address the real issue which is your wife's obesity and laziness.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, you raise some excellent points.

Would I have the same problems if my wife was healthy? Probably not.

The thing is the reason she is obese is because she makes bad dietary decisions. 

I am convinced that a lot of this stems from her childhood. She was raised up on convenience food - TV dinners and fast food. It was different for me. I was raised in a family where meal times were sacred. We didn't just eat - we broke bread together. It was always home cooked nutrition meals. A lot of conscious and deliberate effort went into our food.

We are working on her obesity, but it is very tough going. Proper eating just doesn't come naturally to her so it is always two steps forward and one - three steps back. With me, if I am hungry I will instinctively just put up with it and wait until meal time. If she is hungry she automatically reaches for some cake to "prop her up" until dinner time. I just learned from early on that hunger doesn't kill you and it is worth waiting for proper food. She learned that hunger is intolerable and it is worth eating anything to fix that pain. She is trying to put this same belief into our daughter.

Is she happy with this? No. She isn't proud of her weight and she really struggles.

I do not want to repeat the cycle with our daughter. I don't want her to go through the same thing when she is older.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't get this. I can't imagine phoning my hb and him telling me he's fixing dinner and then getting other food instead when I was heading home. Now I wonder if this is a symptom of a greater issue.... she chose to get fast food, knowing you don't like it, when she knew you were home making dinner. Why? Either she hates your cooking or this is a power struggle. I'm thinking option 2, so the next question is why?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yup, beats me. I think it is ultimately part of her belief that hunger is totally intolerable and must be relieved the second it arises.

Other things I can think of - I was making a two part meal. One salad based, another slow cooked. The salad based was ready, the slow cooked would take a while. She may have thought the salad based one was inadequate as it did not contain any meat. I could have easily stuck on some boiled eggs or something if needed.

The main reason I suspect is that she just fancied fast food. She has been dieting for a few days (new years resolution) and it probably just got too much for her. The meal I was cooking was a recipe she had chosen earlier in the day, so I don't think she was objecting to that specifically.

So yes, I guess the main problem is her poor dietary choices. I do accept that she struggles with it, but I just wish she would keep our daughter out of it..


----------



## ook

happy as a clam said:


> I agree that your wife is not honoring an agreement that you made. But people have a hard time sticking to "agreements" when they are arbitrary and don't make sense to them. McDonalds once or twice a year in an emergency isn't going to hurt anyone.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do I know it is only once or twice a year? She's not been honest with me, so I can't trust anything she says.

I have found mcdonalds wrappers in the car before and when I questioned her she assured me it was only her cousin who ate the meal. Then when I've found these happy meal toys in the house, I just assumed that they were from "her cousin" or bought in a boot sale. Not once did I think she would just be lying to me..


----------



## coffee4me

Your wife sounds like she has an addiction. To food. 

She hides it from you and she lies, like an addict. You don't cure that by fighting the obesity, that is not the source of the issue. You need to get to the real problem her addition. 

The McDonald's thing is pretty obvious she wanted to go, running 15 mins late does not make a reasonable person stop for a whole meal. She was craving junk food needed her fix, not hungry. There is a difference. 

I'm sorry this is having an effect on your daughter. That doesn't seem to motivate your wife to fix the issue. Unfortunately, your daughter has a risk for developing the same patterns of behavior as your wife.


----------



## richardsharpe

Good evening ook
this is a very bad line of reasoning of the form: "I got her to agree to something unreasonable, and since she broke that agreement, now I can't trust her"







ook said:


> How do I know it is only once or twice a year? She's not been honest with me, so I can't trust anything she says.
> 
> I have found mcdonalds wrappers in the car before and when I questioned her she assured me it was only her cousin who ate the meal. Then when I've found these happy meal toys in the house, I just assumed that they were from "her cousin" or bought in a boot sale. Not once did I think she would just be lying to me..


----------



## lifeistooshort

ook said:


> How do I know it is only once or twice a year? She's not been honest with me, so I can't trust anything she says.
> 
> I have found mcdonalds wrappers in the car before and when I questioned her she assured me it was only her cousin who ate the meal. Then when I've found these happy meal toys in the house, I just assumed that they were from "her cousin" or bought in a boot sale. Not once did I think she would just be lying to me..



The real question is what do you think you can actually do about this? 

It's degenerating into a parent child relationship where you're the strict parent she has to explain herself to and she's the rebellious child who's going show you. This is terrible for a marriage. This isn't going to make you happy but I'm going to suggest you accept that you can't control this and drop it. You're having a power struggle with your wife in a parent role, so what would you expect to happen here? If you split up you get no say in what she feeds your daughter when she has her. In addition, this power struggle is going to effect your daughter once she gets old enough to realize that you're watching her weight. I know you have health concerns and they are valid, I hardly ever eat fast food because it's disgusting, but this is how your daughter will receive it. Accept that you can't control this and continue model good habits. There's always a chance that if you stop parenting and chastising your wife the power struggle will fade and she'll make better choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening ook
> this is a very bad line of reasoning of the form: "I got her to agree to something unreasonable, and since she broke that agreement, now I can't trust her"


Not feeding your kids junk food is not an unreasonable wish. 

Perhaps where you live it is the norm, but round here there are plenty of folk that would never set foot in such an establishment and would be shocked that someone would feed it to their child. I am close to a group of people who were heavily involved in lawsuits against McDonalds for what they were marketing and feeding to children.

In addition due to my daughters prematurity she is more vulnerable to health issues and so feeding her a healthy diet is way more critical than for the average child.


----------



## ook

coffee4me said:


> Your wife sounds like she has an addiction. To food.


On the positive side, at least it isn't heroin.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> The real question is what do you think you can actually do about this?
> 
> It's degenerating into a parent child relationship where you're the strict parent she has to explain herself to and she's the rebellious child who's going show you. This is terrible for a marriage. This isn't going to make you happy but I'm going to suggest you accept that you can't control this and drop it. You're having a power struggle with your wife in a parent role, so what would you expect to happen here? If you split up you get no say in what she feeds your daughter when she has her. In addition, this power struggle is going to effect your daughter once she gets old enough to realize that you're watching her weight. I know you have health concerns and they are valid, I hardly ever eat fast food because it's disgusting, but this is how your daughter will receive it. Accept that you can't control this and continue model good habits. There's always a chance that if you stop parenting and chastising your wife the power struggle will fade and she'll make better choices.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really don't know what the best thing to do is. Coming to this forum is really helping me get things straight.

"Accept that you can't control this and continue model good habits."

I think you are right here. It never occurred to me before that she may actually have an addiction and that she actually has a problem with it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Maybe you can come up with palatable alternatives when she feels like she must eat out? Maybe you can get her her to agree that McDonald's is out but panera is in? Don't know if you have panera where are but it's a nicer place, nice sandwiches, soups, salads, and the best fresh baked bread. Or whatever your slightly better alternative is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## coffee4me

Perhaps if you looked at it more as an addiction you may be better to help your wife without the anger you seem to be harboring toward her. Can you discuss it differently with her? 

Is it hunger or is it a craving? If it was hunger she could have come home and eaten anything to satisfy the hunger. So why fast food? 

The junk food is loaded with sugar and salt, so she is addicted to the rush she gets from that. Does she need a pick me up? Is she depressed or sluggish from lack of exercise ? If she doesn't eat a lot of nutritious food she could be lacking in vitamins and feel lethargic, the fast food gives her a high. 

You said she been like this since having your daughter. I felt the same after my first child and that's when I started taking vitamins. It does help me. 

She will need willpower to stop but if she can stay away from the fast food, the cravings will go. But I don't think she can stay away unless she understands why she craves it.


----------



## ook

Well viewing it as an addiction does turn it more into a problem I can try to fix rather than a total lack of respect which will end up with her jumping into bed with hundreds of men behind my back. 

I have always known there has been a problem there which is why i have been so keen to protect my daughter from it. I still don't know how best to help her.

I guess there are loads of kids raised on a junk food diet who do all right. Even my stepson - her teenage son - who has had his fair share of junk food is generally OK. He does have a bit of an eating disorder. He does comfort eat. I am quite confident though that he will have the ability to reel it in when he needs to. He does take some interest in health and nutrition - a lot more than many of his peers. I hope my faith is not misplaced.


----------



## ook

She does have a very addictive personality. She was on heroin for most of her teenage years. But she did overcome that. It is amazing how together she is given her teenage years. Its one of the reasons I fell in love with her. 

She is also a bit of a functional alcoholic. She rarely drinks to excess but does really struggle to go a day without a drink. 

Part of her new years resolutions has been to diet and to give up drinking. I guess she has been finding it harder than I thought. 

But although I can understand why she might have had the takeaway herself I still don't think it is excusable to get our daughter involved. If the addiction was drugs and not fast food the social services would be intervening straight away.


----------



## DoF

"NOTHING is good when taken to extreme"

Sorry but absolutely no fast food is little over the top. Make it once a month or something, no harm in that.

Also, what YOU might think is health might not really be healthy at all.

Then there is the whole environment health. You might eat healthy but the air you breath (depending on where you live) is probably polluted to hell (especially in Cali or North East NY area).

Look now, I'm all for eating healthy and living a healthy lifestyle (so I think you are doing the right thing)......I just think you are taking it to the extreme......and that's never good).


----------



## ook

DoF said:


> "NOTHING is good when taken to extreme"
> 
> Sorry but absolutely no fast food is little over the top. Make it once a month or something, no harm in that.
> 
> Also, what YOU might think is health might not really be healthy at all.
> 
> Then there is the whole environment health. You might eat healthy but the air you breath (depending on where you live) is probably polluted to hell (especially in Cali or North East NY area).
> 
> Look now, I'm all for eating healthy and living a healthy lifestyle (so I think you are doing the right thing)......I just think you are taking it to the extreme......and that's never good).


So by that line of thinking completely cutting out pot is also extreme. The odd joint once a month wouldn't hurt her. 

Why is that different from fast food? Because fast food is socially acceptable and pot isn't? We live in a society where obesity and other diet related issues are becoming real problems. Fast food is not the whole problem, but it definitely isn't a part of the solution. 

I would be a lot more extreme in what we fed to her if it was just down to me. She does eat a lot of sugary food which I wish she didn't.


----------



## Hicks

Children have two parents.
Nature intended this.... Sometimes you are in charge, and sometimes your wife is. Sometimes you two agree and sometimes you two disagree. Sometimes you your way prevails and sometimes her way prevails. You have to take the good with the bad.


----------



## Ceegee

happy as a clam said:


> Ahhhhh.... this reinforces my previous point (see post #11 above). I think this is more about your wife's weight than your daughter's diet and nutrition.



I agree, however....

We are all allowed to have our absolute boundaries. This is one OP has always had from the beginning. 

He has every right to be upset about this. Is he going overboard? Maybe, but this is his right. 

The fast food isn't the issue here. He laid down a boundary and she crossed it. 

I don't think this is something that they can't recover from but it is something they need to come to an agreement about. 

FWIW, I admire OP for his stance on this. My kids eat garbage when with their mom. It's impossible to get them to eat nutritious food when their with me. McD's is the absolute worst. It is not the same as a burger anywhere else. It's poison IMO.


----------



## Duguesclin

OP, if you want to help your daughter, help your wife first.

You can put all the rules in the world. If your wife does not agree, it is a lost cause.

You can divorce her because she is not following your rules, but then you have even less control over your daughter's diet. Therefore, again, focus on your wife and help her.

On a side note, my oldest is 19 years old and she has never eaten at McDonald except maybe 5 times max and it was just to get her French fries. So it is not unrealistic not to go to fast food. However, I would strongly suggest to consider being a vegetarian. Eating a burger at McDonald or at Fred's best burger, is still a burger full of fat.


----------



## PBear

I suspect your wife is agreeing with you not because she actually agrees with your position but because it's her passive aggressive way of getting you off her case. Like a husband agreeing to not watch porn in a sexless marriage, all it does is drive the negative behaviour underground. Which was all fine, until your daughter busted her...

You come across as an authoritative parent, not a supportive partner/husband. The two of you need to get in the same page, which will likely involve honest dialogue and compromise.if you can't do that on your own, get a professional counsellor involved to help mediate.

C


----------



## EleGirl

Ceegee said:


> I agree, however....
> 
> We are all allowed to have our absolute boundaries. This is one OP has always had from the beginning.
> 
> He has every right to be upset about this. Is he going overboard? Maybe, but this is his right.
> 
> The fast food isn't the issue here. He laid down a boundary and she crossed it.
> 
> I don't think this is something that they can't recover from but it is something they need to come to an agreement about.
> 
> FWIW, I admire OP for his stance on this. My kids eat garbage when with their mom. It's impossible to get them to eat nutritious food when their with me. McD's is the absolute worst. It is not the same as a burger anywhere else. It's poison IMO.


He cannot set a boundary that he cannot enforce. 

See he has no right (legally) to tell his wife what she must and must not feed their daughter. So him trying to do this turns into nothing more than a power struggle.


----------



## EleGirl

Ceegee said:


> I agree, however....
> 
> We are all allowed to have our absolute boundaries. This is one OP has always had from the beginning.
> 
> He has every right to be upset about this. Is he going overboard? Maybe, but this is his right.
> 
> The fast food isn't the issue here. He laid down a boundary and she crossed it.
> 
> I don't think this is something that they can't recover from but it is something they need to come to an agreement about.
> 
> FWIW, I admire OP for his stance on this. My kids eat garbage when with their mom. It's impossible to get them to eat nutritious food when their with me. McD's is the absolute worst. It is not the same as a burger anywhere else. It's poison IMO.


Burgers everywhere are some beef hamburger served on a white roll.

So how exactly is McD's beef hamburger and white roll absolutely worst than any other beef hamburger and white roll?


----------



## Ceegee

EleGirl said:


> Burgers everywhere are some beef hamburger served on a white roll.
> 
> 
> 
> So how exactly is McD's beef hamburger and white roll absolutely worst than any other beef hamburger and white roll?



Go to YouTube and search McDonalds. 

They're not the only ones but I thinks that's OP's point. 

I used to take the kids there years ago. After seeing these videos I cannot. The kids have seen them and they no longer ask for it.


----------



## Ceegee

EleGirl said:


> He cannot set a boundary that he cannot enforce.
> 
> 
> 
> See he has no right (legally) to tell his wife what she must and must not feed their daughter. So him trying to do this turns into nothing more than a power struggle.



If this is about what he's legally able to enforce you're right. You win.


----------



## Blondilocks

"Well viewing it as an addiction does turn it more into a problem I can try to fix rather than a total lack of respect which will end up with her jumping into bed with hundreds of men behind my back."

Holy cow! Chill out. How did you even get to the jumping into bed part? Plus, you can't 'fix' anything because it isn't yours to fix. Stop trying to control your wife. 

And, talk to your pediatrician to find out just when your daughter is out of the woods from being premature. When you learn the timeframe you may be able to stop being afraid for your daughter.


----------



## michzz

I have to wonder, what is worse for a child?

A parent/spouse who interrogates about food choices and acts like a dictator.

Or

a parent/spouse who eats fast food

acting in a parental role to a spouse is toxic to a relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

That was slightly tongue in cheek. If she lies about where she takes our daughter how can I be sure she isn't lying when she says she is being faithful to me?

Our daughter will never be fully out if the woods from being premature. Sure she she has been discharged from the pediatrician who is very happy with her development. However there is a difference between a doctor being happy with her health and me being happy! You just have to look at the food served in hospitals to know that a doctor generally only focuses on keeping then alive and hitting their short term targets. I don't mean to take anything away from her pediatrician, he has been amazing. But he can only do what he has been trained and has a budget for. He takes her that 90% of the way and it is up to us parents to do the rest. She will always have a compromised immunity and will always be more susceptible to illnesses. Her lungs will always be scarred from having chronic lung disease. Her brain has developed differently to most kids, she struggles with high stimulation. Her gut flora is not and likely never will be optimal due to the massive amounts of drugs she had to take in her first few months. There is evidence to suggest that children born with a low birth rate are more susceptible to cancer. She was 1.5 lbs at birth. 

I don't see how you can think that raising my daughter as well as possible is not my problem? It is everything to me. I'm not trying to control my wife I'm trying to control my daughters health... Is that not a parents responsibility?


----------



## ook

michzz said:


> I have to wonder, what is worse for a child?
> 
> A parent/spouse who interrogates about food choices and acts like a dictator.
> 
> Or
> 
> a parent/spouse who eats fast food
> 
> acting in a parental role to a spouse is toxic to a relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who says I interrogated her about food choices? She waved a happy meal toy right in my face...

Me and the wife have had arguments over her diet and we came to a compromise... She could eat biscuits and cakes but she won't eat fast food. Its not a compromise I was that happy with. I would have rather kept her from eating the biscuits and cakes, but I had to agree on something. But.. even that agreement was broken.


----------



## ook

So I had a talk with my wife. 

She admitted that she had taken her to have fast food about three times. The last time when I found a happy meal toy in the house and asked about it she said it was just her cousins. She admitted that that was a lie.

I dig what everyone here has been saying about me being too authoritative. I can see how that would cause someone to be afraid to tell the truth. 

I told her it upset me to see my daughter eat that and it upset me more to be lied to. I didn't shout and we made up. I'm not angry I'm just hurt. I think banging on in these forums has really helped me to work out most of my negative emotions.

So my wife said to me that everything she does I have to agree with and she isn't allowed to do anything without my permission. I just don't see how she can think that. At first when she was one I said she shouldn't be eating cake and biscuits. My wife agreed but continued to give her cake and biscuits. Then when she was weaned off milk I wanted her to drink water and not be given squash and sugary drinks all the time. She still drinks squash and sugary drinks all the time all the time. I have asked that she doesn't watch TV every day. The TV is on every time I come home from work. Then I said I don't want her going to fast food. She is going to fast food places. Not a single thing I have asked for has actually been respected. 

Seriously it feels like I'm in a house with two step kids and not just one.


----------



## NobodySpecial

^^^ So apparently, you have more than one rule. Quiet a lot of them in fact!


----------



## ook

The fast food was the last one that I thought was being respected.


----------



## Blondilocks

Why don't you and your wife have a consultation with the pediatrician and address your concerns. If your daughter's health & any tests are not indicating adverse reactions to the occasional biscuit/cake/happy meal/sugary drink or tv, perhaps the Dr. can put your mind to rest.

For whatever reason, your wife feels like she's under your thumb and is not being treated as a true partner. 

A bright note: your daughter proudly showing you her happy meal toy shows that she does not fear you. That's good!


----------



## ook

Crikey.. Why on earth would my daughter fear me?


----------



## michzz

michzz said:


> I have to wonder, what is worse for a child?
> 
> A parent/spouse who interrogates about food choices and acts like a dictator.
> 
> Or
> 
> a parent/spouse who eats fast food
> 
> acting in a parental role to a spouse is toxic to a relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





ook said:


> That was slightly tongue in cheek. If she lies about where she takes our daughter how can I be sure she isn't lying when she says she is being faithful to me?
> 
> Our daughter will never be fully out if the woods from being premature. Sure she she has been discharged from the pediatrician who is very happy with her development. However there is a difference between a doctor being happy with her health and me being happy! You just have to look at the food served in hospitals to know that a doctor generally only focuses on keeping then alive and hitting their short term targets. I don't mean to take anything away from her pediatrician, he has been amazing. But he can only do what he has been trained and has a budget for. He takes her that 90% of the way and it is up to us parents to do the rest. She will always have a compromised immunity and will always be more susceptible to illnesses. Her lungs will always be scarred from having chronic lung disease. Her brain has developed differently to most kids, she struggles with high stimulation. Her gut flora is not and likely never will be optimal due to the massive amounts of drugs she had to take in her first few months. There is evidence to suggest that children born with a low birth rate are more susceptible to cancer. She was 1.5 lbs at birth.
> 
> I don't see how you can think that raising my daughter as well as possible is not my problem? It is everything to me. I'm not trying to control my wife I'm trying to control my daughters health... Is that not a parents responsibility?


I have no doubt that the way of being extends to far more than food.

It is rooted in insecurity, not strength.


----------



## ook

michzz said:


> I have no doubt that the way of being extends to far more than food.
> 
> It is rooted in insecurity, not strength.


I don't understand what you mean? 

My parenting is obviously far more than just about food. How is that insecurity?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Have you asked your wife if she finds this rule reasonable, while making clear that she has the option to say no? If you want honesty you have to make sure there's a safe environment for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

She doesn't find it reasonable and I don't find it reasonable that she does. We disagree. We are stuck.


----------



## coffee4me

ook, you sure have been beat up in this thread for trying to enforce boundaries that your wife agreed to and then broke. 

Seems the majority of advice here is that your wife can pump your immune compromised daughter with sugar and junk food and you should just STFU about it. That's too bad. 

I for one understand your concern for your childs health both now and the future effects of developing preferences for junky foods and obesity etc. clearly you are frustrated and angry about the situation and your wife is uncooperative and defensive. 

Tough spot to be stuck in, I hope you can find some resolution.


----------



## kokonatsu

McDonalds is nothing but trash. Those who are saying "a burger is a burger is a burger" are dead wrong. There's a HUGE difference between the McDonald's "burger" and a fresh burger made from as healthy ingredients as you can make. 

I wish I had never eaten McDonalds and don't find any rule saying to never eat it to be crazy. It's healthy and conscious. Your wife, being obese, really needs to understand how unhealthy it is. Not just McDonalds, but any fast food. 

I comfort eat. I'm addicted to food. The other day I was grocery shopping with my husband, and I thought, "man, why did I ask him to come, now I can't get snacks." So I had to return to the store today, without him, and I got snacks. He sees it when I come home, and didn't say anything, but I feel like it disappoints him when I get them (btw, snacks usually means potato chips). 

My husband is more health conscious than I. And after we started living together, I have made a huge change in my diet. It hasn't been easy, especially when we moved back to my home country, because I know all the nice treats, and associate them with good memories, so I want to eat them again. But I'm trying. 

Anyway, you want to talk about the boundary issue with your wife. I just wanted to encourage you and say that it is possible for someone addicted to food to try to make a change -- but such a person seriously has to want it. Coming as "rules" from another person, even a spouse, will not create the change you desire to see from your wife without her passionate desire to change. 

I would talk with her honestly, how do you feel when she 1) breaks the agreements you've made -- whether it's about fast food, or the other ones you've mentioned -- and don't bring them up as rules, but as agreements, because she did agree! and 2) when she lies to you about breaking the rules. 

Maybe you do need to back down a bit and say "once a month is a compromise I can agree to", and then once that timeline is established, increase it to two months, or six months, so it's easier to go without for those long periods of time. and ask her to be open with you about when she wants to break the rules. 

So instead of her just craving and get the food, she can crave it and call you for encouragement to eat healthy. Support her and encourage her in her choices, so she doesn't feel like it's such a big hurdle. And find some healthy snacks she likes to eat, and don't have a problem with her eating those (like popcorn, or something..)


----------



## lifeistooshort

I don't think the majority opinion is that it's ok for his wife to pump her full of crap, just that it's not something he can reasonably enforce. And it's not even clear that his wife is pumping her full of anything..... he's here over a few trips to mcdonalds and some cakes he doesn't think she should have. Maybe op could clarify just how often his wife is doing this.


And there is something to be said for teaching his daughter moderation, the fact is that his daughter is growing up in a world with junk food and tv, and trying to regulate it out of existence could backfire. She has to learn good choices and moderation.

Ook, if your wife doesn't think this is reasonable you're fighting a losing battle. If you break up you'll have ZERO control over what she gives your daughter. Stop trying control her entire diet, try to work with your daughter's doctor along with your wife, model good choices, and drop it. You can't win this battle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland

Oh I hear you, limiting fast food is a big priority for me as a parent. We have Maccas or Hungry Jacks maybe once every two years.

Sounds like there are all sorts of issues going on, wifes weight, the parenting differences you have. I have no words of wisdom there.
Just wanted to ask if you have discussed alternative type fast foods? We have some fantastic Japanese cafes around here, my kids love sushi and in the big scheme of life I don't think it is such a bad food.
We have fish and chips sometimes, maybe twice a year (I am a veggo so only have the chips with salad) but at least the kids are having some fish.

If life is crazy busy because of after school activities and other events then we stop and get a BBQ chicken and healthy salads from the supermarket.

I agree with some of the others that banning things can cause issues later but if you allow a few treats and also educate your kids on what foods do to their bodies (the good and bad) then you will set them up for a better future.

My kids still only drink water or milk 95% of the time and they are teenagers. It is no big deal if you start raising them with healthy habits from very early on but instead of banning, educate them on why soft drinks and junk food are bad. 
I have also educated them on the way the advertising industry works to suck people in so they pay stupid dollars for rubbish food.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think the majority opinion is that it's ok for his wife to pump her full of crap, just that it's not something he can reasonably enforce. And it's not even clear that his wife is pumping her full of anything..... he's here over a few trips to mcdonalds and some cakes he doesn't think she should have. Maybe op could clarify just how often his wife is doing this.
> 
> 
> And there is something to be said for teaching his daughter moderation, the fact is that his daughter is growing up in a world with junk food and tv, and trying to regulate it out of existence could backfire. She has to learn good choices and moderation.
> 
> Ook, if your wife doesn't think this is reasonable you're fighting a losing battle. If you break up you'll have ZERO control over what she gives your daughter. Stop trying control her entire diet, try to work with your daughter's doctor along with your wife, model good choices, and drop it. You can't win this battle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I cant stop her from having an affair, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be upset if she did have one.

You and I have a clear difference with regards to diet. You say "she's not pumping her full of anything - just taking her to McDonalds and feeding her cake". In my opinion that is pumping her full of crap. Ok, maybe not pumping... but it is definitely not what I want to be giving her at such a small age. 

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that what you feed to a child in their early years will affect their dietary choices for their entire life. Feed her crap when she is 3 and she will find it much harder to resist crap when she is 30. Because of this I feel that it is critical to control her diet very strictly whilst she is such an open book.


----------



## ook

I have no intention of breaking up with her.


----------



## EleGirl

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't think the majority opinion is that it's ok for his wife to pump her full of crap, just that it's not something he can reasonably enforce.


:iagree: This is what most posters here are saying. No one thinks that a steady diet of McDonald's is good. But the OP has to realize that his wife has as much say in what their daughter eats as he does. 



lifeistooshort said:


> And it's not even clear that his wife is pumping her full of anything..... he's here over a few trips to mcdonalds and some cakes he doesn't think she should have. Maybe op could clarify just how often his wife is doing this.


Good question.



lifeistooshort said:


> And there is something to be said for teaching his daughter moderation, the fact is that his daughter is growing up in a world with junk food and tv, and trying to regulate it out of existence could backfire. She has to learn good choices and moderation.


I have found that children not allowed any fast food (or popular choices) end up over indulging in them when they get old enough to start making their own choices. Teacher his daughter to live sensibly in a world full of temptation is the wisest way to go about it.



lifeistooshort said:


> Ook, if your wife doesn't think this is reasonable you're fighting a losing battle. If you break up you'll have ZERO control over what she gives your daughter. Stop trying control her entire diet, try to work with your daughter's doctor along with your wife, model good choices, and drop it. You can't win this battle.


:iagree:


----------



## ook

I have not said she is not allowed fast food. I just don't want it to come from as and I don't want it when she is so young. Inevitably the time will one when she is invited to a birthday party at one of these places. I wouldn't stop her going. She needs to have fun.

I hear this excuse quite often - if you ban something then the kids will overindulge when they are older. I am not convinced. They may go a bit crazy at first, but how they were raised will often be the place they will come back to when they need to. It becomes their comfort zone. 

I was not allowed alcohol as a teenager. When I left home I certainly over indulged. However now that I am older and have responsibility I found it no problem to quit entirely. My wife comes from a family of heavy drinkers. She really struggles to go a few days without drinking.


----------



## Pooh Bear

ook said:


> So I had a talk with my wife.
> 
> She admitted that she had taken her to have fast food about three times. The last time when I found a happy meal toy in the house and asked about it she said it was just her cousins. She admitted that that was a lie.
> 
> I dig what everyone here has been saying about me being too authoritative. I can see how that would cause someone to be afraid to tell the truth.
> 
> I told her it upset me to see my daughter eat that and it upset me more to be lied to. I didn't shout and we made up. I'm not angry I'm just hurt. I think banging on in these forums has really helped me to work out most of my negative emotions.
> 
> So my wife said to me that everything she does I have to agree with and she isn't allowed to do anything without my permission. I just don't see how she can think that. At first when she was one I said she shouldn't be eating cake and biscuits. My wife agreed but continued to give her cake and biscuits. Then when she was weaned off milk I wanted her to drink water and not be given squash and sugary drinks all the time. She still drinks squash and sugary drinks all the time all the time. I have asked that she doesn't watch TV every day. The TV is on every time I come home from work. Then I said I don't want her going to fast food. She is going to fast food places. Not a single thing I have asked for has actually been respected.
> 
> Seriously it feels like I'm in a house with two step kids and not just one.


You feel like you are living with two step kids because you are treating your wife like a child. And she is rebelling like a child. She sounds like she is addicted to food but that is her battle to fight not yours. She may decide that she wants to change her eating habits but you have to accept that she may not either. If you try to control her eating, the amount of tv she watches, anything, you are just acting like a father not a husband. It sounds like she agrees with you to get you to shut up. Like a child would. You need to start by coming at your wife as an equal partner and attempting to compromise not push her to agree to your demands. You don't seem to see that you are being controlling and she is not responding well. 

And you said she gained weight after the birth of your child. A woman's body does change after childbirth and you have a toddler. That is a huge change and a lot of work. As you know. She may feel overwhelmed. I think when it comes to your wife you need to stop coming at her as if you know best and meet her as someone whose opinions have just as much validity as yours. If she wants to change her eating habits that's great. But she needs to take the steps to do that. If you leave her alone she may do that. She may not either and you just have to accept that she may decide that she wants to live differently. If that's a dealbreaker then you can decide to leave. As far as your daughter is concerned you two need to come to some sort of agreement there also. It has to be as two equals making a decision.


----------



## Pooh Bear

coffee4me said:


> ook, you sure have been beat up in this thread for trying to enforce boundaries that your wife agreed to and then broke.
> 
> Seems the majority of advice here is that your wife can pump your immune compromised daughter with sugar and junk food and you should just STFU about it. That's too bad.
> 
> I for one understand your concern for your childs health both now and the future effects of developing preferences for junky foods and obesity etc. clearly you are frustrated and angry about the situation and your wife is uncooperative and defensive.
> 
> Tough spot to be stuck in, I hope you can find some resolution.


That's because the issue is not the food. It's the parent/child dynamic in their relationship.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ook said:


> I cant stop her from having an affair, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be upset if she did have one.
> 
> You and I have a clear difference with regards to diet. You say "she's not pumping her full of anything - just taking her to McDonalds and feeding her cake". In my opinion that is pumping her full of crap. Ok, maybe not pumping... but it is definitely not what I want to be giving her at such a small age.
> 
> There is a lot of evidence to suggest that what you feed to a child in their early years will affect their dietary choices for their entire life. Feed her crap when she is 3 and she will find it much harder to resist crap when she is 30. Because of this I feel that it is critical to control her diet very strictly whilst she is such an open book.


Did your wedding vows include "I promise not to eat fast l food"?

And now you've decided what my eating habits must be, that tells me something about your attitude. You know the last time I or my kids had fast food? I don't even remember. Your wife thinks you're controlling..... doesn't matter if you agree, it is what she thinks. I think it's because even though she does things you don't like you make it very clear that you disapprove..... you come across as very judgy.

Keep acting like a parent and you'll have a lousy marriage, and you might not leave her but eventually she might leave you. 

You know what kills people faster then anything? Stress. And you're creating a lot of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ook

Pooh Bear said:


> You feel like you are living with two step kids because you are treating your wife like a child. And she is rebelling like a child. She sounds like she is addicted to food but that is her battle to fight not yours. She may decide that she wants to change her eating habits but you have to accept that she may not either. If you try to control her eating, the amount of tv she watches, anything, you are just acting like a father not a husband. It sounds like she agrees with you to get you to shut up. Like a child would. You need to start by coming at your wife as an equal partner and attempting to compromise not push her to agree to your demands. You don't seem to see that you are being controlling and she is not responding well.
> 
> And you said she gained weight after the birth of your child. A woman's body does change after childbirth and you have a toddler. That is a huge change and a lot of work. As you know. She may feel overwhelmed. I think when it comes to your wife you need to stop coming at her as if you know best and meet her as someone whose opinions have just as much validity as yours. If she wants to change her eating habits that's great. But she needs to take the steps to do that. If you leave her alone she may do that. She may not either and you just have to accept that she may decide that she wants to live differently. If that's a dealbreaker then you can decide to leave. As far as your daughter is concerned you two need to come to some sort of agreement there also. It has to be as two equals making a decision.


I have one step son and one full daughter. When it comes to my step son I defer to my wife if we disagree about some aspect of parenting. He is her child. With my daughter though I feel I should have a say in how she is raised. I don't get this hence it feels like both kids are just step children.

I'm not trying to control my wife's diet, I'm trying to control my daughters.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> Did your wedding vows include "I promise not to eat fast l food"?
> 
> And now you've decided what my eating habits must be, that tells me something about your attitude. You know the last time I or my kids had fast food? I don't even remember. Your wife thinks you're controlling..... doesn't matter if you agree, it is what she thinks. I think it's because even though she does things you don't like you make it very clear that you disapprove..... you come across as very judgy.
> 
> Keep acting like a parent and you'll have a lousy marriage, and you might not leave her but eventually she might leave you.
> 
> You know what kills people faster then anything? Stress. And you're creating a lot of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She did promise to 'honour and obey' me. 

I haven't said anything about your eating habits. I just think we disagree on how harmful fast food is for children. 

I am a parent. 

I do appreciate your input though. It is helping me to get things straight in my head. 

Why is it me not wanting my daughter to eat junk that is causing stress? It is also her choosing to feed her junk that is causing the stress. Put it this way if I started to supply her teenage son with cannabis and she got angry at me, who would be to blame for the stress?


----------



## JustTired

OP,

I get that you want your daughter to have a healthy start in life. I have a 3.5 year old & I want the same for her too. I cook our meals 85% of the time, I make sure there is plenty of protein & veggies in what we eat. I cook from scratch & do not prepare any of that boxed junk you see in the grocery store.

My husband, on the other hand, is not into "healthy eating". He only likes a handful of veggies & grew up on Hamburger Helper & those nasty breaded chicken strips. If he ate veggies growing up they were from a can. Since he turned out "fine", he sees nothing wrong with those types of food. He also gets annoyed with me if I don't buy those types of things from the grocery store.

I know my husband's personality & taking an authoritative stance on something like this would go all the way wrong. So you know what I do? I cook separate meals for my daughter & I. I can quickly make a meal in 30 minutes for us by simply stir frying some veggies in coconut oil with a protein source to accompany it. I then make my husband the nasty processed meals he so loves, those are pretty fast too!

One thing my husband & I both agree on is no soda or juices, only milk & water. On the occasion, my daughter will still get fast food if I am in a pinch. But even with the fast food, I opt for healthier options. For example, if I take my daughter to Chik-Fil-A I will get her the grilled nuggets, with fruit as the side, & milk. Not really as nutritious as a home cooked meal, but still better than fried nuggets & the waffle fries.

Even though cooking separate meals is not ideal, it saves me the head ache. Maybe it's time you start cooking more often? Not saying that you don't cook but maybe do a little meal prepping for your daughter....that way all your wife has to do is heat & serve. Whenever my husband is home with our daughter, I meal prep for her ahead of time. That way my husband won't feed her crap while I'm out & about.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ook said:


> She did promise to 'honour and obey' me.
> 
> I haven't said anything about your eating habits. I just think we disagree on how harmful fast food is for children.
> 
> I am a parent.
> 
> I do appreciate your input though. It is helping me to get things straight in my head.
> 
> Why is it me not wanting my daughter to eat junk that is causing stress? It is also her choosing to feed her junk that is causing the stress. Put it this way if I started to supply her teenage son with cannabis and she got angry at me, who would be to blame for the stress?



I see, so now we're getting to the root of the issue, and that is you think you're the head of the house, you know best, and everyone should defer to you. Even if you decide to "let" her do what she wants, you still really know best. Your wife isn't really your partner, she's your subordinate. 

That's certainly one world view, but even if your wife agreed, which she clearly doesn't, it is a great way to create another child in the form of your wife. And you can't enforce it.

What does your daughter's doctor say? Does he agree with you or do you know more then him too? If he agrees then you and your wife can get together with him and discuss what's best, but if he doesn't you might consider that you don't know everything. But either way you're damaging your marriage and family right now, and if you continue treat your wife like a child someone who doesn't might start to look appealing. I've said all I have say, I'm glad you appreciate the input, but I sense that you are going to continue to fight a losing battle that's not going to benefit any of you. Good luck, I'm bowing out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

ook said:


> *We *are working on her obesity, but it is very tough going.


See, ook.... here's part of your problem. *"We"* should not be working on her obesity; *SHE* should be working on her obesity.

Sure, you can support her by cooking nutritious meals, shopping for healthy food, exercising with her, etc. but ultimately it is HER body and HER issue, not both of yours together.

I suspect she is rebelling and using her weight as a battleground to try to snuff out any control you think you have over her. All that "control" leads to this:



lifeistooshort said:


> ...it is a great way to create *another child *in the form of your wife. And you can't enforce it.


I don't mean to be harsh, but you really seem to be uptight over this and are trying to exert your control over what YOU deem best for everyone. Your wife will not lose the weight until SHE comes to terms with it; any pressure from you concerning food choices for your wife or your daughter will be met with rebellion until you back off.

Honestly, you sound like a mismatch for each other. You are fit, health-conscious and organized; you have described your wife as lazy, obese and not health-conscious at all. You need to reconcile these differences in order to be happy with each other.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> I see, so now we're getting to the root of the issue, and that is you think you're the head of the house, you know best, and everyone should defer to you. Even if you decide to "let" her do what she wants, you still really know best. Your wife isn't really your partner, she's your subordinate.


You brought up the subject of marriage vows. I think I promised the same to her.. can't actually remember precisely what I promised.



lifeistooshort said:


> What does your daughter's doctor say? Does he agree with you or do you know more then him too? If he agrees then you and your wife can get together with him and discuss what's best, but if he doesn't you might consider that you don't know everything. But either way you're damaging your marriage and family right now, and if you continue treat your wife like a child someone who doesn't might start to look appealing. I've said all I have say, I'm glad you appreciate the input, but I sense that you are going to continue to fight a losing battle that's not going to benefit any of you. Good luck, I'm bowing out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A better question to ask our doctor would be if he took his kids there when they were three. I don't know for sure, but I know him quite well and I would be very surprised if he let them go there at all!

All I'm getting from you is that to save my marriage I need to just bow down and let my wife do what ever she wants without any regard for me and all will be well. She has already won.

Thanks.


----------



## ook

JustTired said:


> OP,
> Even though cooking separate meals is not ideal, it saves me the head ache. Maybe it's time you start cooking more often? Not saying that you don't cook but maybe do a little meal prepping for your daughter....that way all your wife has to do is heat & serve. Whenever my husband is home with our daughter, I meal prep for her ahead of time. That way my husband won't feed her crap while I'm out & about.


Thanks. Yes I cook when I can, but as I am at work a lot I don't get to cook during the week. I have tried meal prepping before, but it doesn't work too well. The wife generally does very well with cooking the evening meals and I have no complaints about it.

I could however do better with preparing wholesome snacks and convenience food. That is a very good idea.


----------



## Pooh Bear

ook said:


> She did promise to 'honour and obey' me.
> 
> I haven't said anything about your eating habits. I just think we disagree on how harmful fast food is for children.
> 
> I am a parent.
> 
> I do appreciate your input though. It is helping me to get things straight in my head.
> 
> Why is it me not wanting my daughter to eat junk that is causing stress? It is also her choosing to feed her junk that is causing the stress. Put it this way if I started to supply her teenage son with cannabis and she got angry at me, who would be to blame for the stress?


I see. You don't want a marriage of equality. Well, I guess if she agrees to that there is not much more to say. Women often settle for second best and have for centuries. It's unfortunate.


----------



## ook

happy as a clam said:


> See, ook.... here's part of your problem. *"We"* should not be working on her obesity; *SHE* should be working on her obesity.
> 
> Sure, you can support her by cooking nutritious meals, shopping for healthy food, exercising with her, etc. but ultimately it is HER body and HER issue, not both of yours together.
> 
> I suspect she is rebelling and using her weight as a battleground to try to snuff out any control you think you have over her. All that "control" leads to this:


You are right, there isn't much I can do about her weight. 

You have no idea how frustrating it is when I see her jump from one flawed diet to another and binging in between. I do try to explain to her that her extreme 500 calorie per day diets will not work. She won't listen. I keep quiet when a few days later I find chocolate wrappers in the car. Really I don't say much at all. She knows just by looking in the mirror. Her family on the other hand can be quite cruel.

I suppose I'm not as supportive as I could be. If her brother starts cracking jokes about her weight gain I don't jump in and start defending her. When she comes to me and complains about being fat, I don't say to her "no you're not". I probably just say something about how she shouldn't be surprised given all the beer she's drunk or chocolate she's eaten.

Sometimes if she complains about how long my beard is and tells me to shave it I might make a comment about how she doesn't have a right to tell me to fix my appearance.

So I guess in a way it is obvious that I am not supportive of her weight gain.





happy as a clam said:


> I don't mean to be harsh, but you really seem to be uptight over this and are trying to exert your control over what YOU deem best for everyone. Your wife will not lose the weight until SHE comes to terms with it; any pressure from you concerning food choices for your wife or your daughter will be met with rebellion until you back off.
> 
> Honestly, you sound like a mismatch for each other. You are fit, health-conscious and organized; you have described your wife as lazy, obese and not health-conscious at all. You need to reconcile these differences in order to be happy with each other.


We have definitely grown apart in many ways, but I am determined to reconcile the differences in a way that just turn me into a doormat.


----------



## happy as a clam

^ ^ ^
ook...
Very thoughtful post above.

I have not read this book, but my good friend read it and said it was life-changing. It's about women changing their "relationship" with food and getting off the dieting yo-yo cycle. It got 5 star reviews. It is NOT a "diet" book.

http://www.amazon.com/Women-Food-Desire-Embrace-Cravings/dp/1476765049/ref=sr_1_1_twi_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1420650042&sr=8-1&keywords=women+food+and+desire

Maybe you should purchase it and leave it lying on the coffee table.  If she asks why it's there, tell her you purchased it for YOU (not for her!) to help you understand her struggles with her dietary choices, and also to help you steer your daughter towards healthy eating as she matures. Even if your wife never reads it, it may help you understand how the issues go far deeper than just food.


----------



## michzz

michzz said:


> I have no doubt that the way of being extends to far more than food.
> 
> It is rooted in insecurity, not strength.





ook said:


> I don't understand what you mean?
> 
> My parenting is obviously far more than just about food. How is that insecurity?


I was not referring specifically to your food conflict with your wife.

I am referring to the idea of an unequal relationship with your spouse, imposing rules, etc. That kind of behavior is rooted in insecurity.

Let me be clear, I'm not suggesting that fast food is good for anyone to eat.

What I am suggesting is that the family dynamic is broken.

The food issue of control and self medicating is a result.


----------



## lifeistooshort

ook said:


> You brought up the subject of marriage vows. I think I promised the same to her.. can't actually remember precisely what I promised.
> 
> 
> 
> A better question to ask our doctor would be if he took his kids there when they were three. I don't know for sure, but I know him quite well and I would be very surprised if he let them go there at all!
> 
> All I'm getting from you is that to save my marriage I need to just bow down and let my wife do what ever she wants without any regard for me and all will be well. She has already won.
> 
> Thanks.


Ok, I know I said I was out but I want to answer:

Nope. I specifically said you could model good choices, that is not bowing down. I said you can't force this and thus can't win this battle. So what are you going to do? Continue to follow her demanding explanations? What do you realistically think you're going to achieve? What you're doing isn't working, and you want to know how you can make her do this your way. The answer is that you can't. People here are trying to get you to understand that you're creating a power struggle and thus a self fulfilling prophesy. You're acting like a parent, you nag your wife and demand explanations, she responds like a rebellious kid. Rinse and repeat. It's not a healthy marital dynamic.

You are free to make choices for you and for your daughter when she's with you..... your wife is free to make choices for herself and her daughter when she has her. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Is your wife insisting that you get her fast food? So why is it that if your wife doesn't do things to your standards then you've bowed down to her and she's won?

You are seeing this as controlling your daughter but to the extent that you and your wife aren't on the same page it involves controlling your wife, which you can't do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pooh Bear

ook said:


> You are right, there isn't much I can do about her weight.
> 
> You have no idea how frustrating it is when I see her jump from one flawed diet to another and binging in between. I do try to explain to her that her extreme 500 calorie per day diets will not work. She won't listen. I keep quiet when a few days later I find chocolate wrappers in the car. Really I don't say much at all. She knows just by looking in the mirror. Her family on the other hand can be quite cruel.
> 
> I suppose I'm not as supportive as I could be. If her brother starts cracking jokes about her weight gain I don't jump in and start defending her. When she comes to me and complains about being fat, I don't say to her "no you're not". I probably just say something about how she shouldn't be surprised given all the beer she's drunk or chocolate she's eaten.
> 
> Sometimes if she complains about how long my beard is and tells me to shave it I might make a comment about how she doesn't have a right to tell me to fix my appearance.
> 
> So I guess in a way it is obvious that I am not supportive of her weight gain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have definitely grown apart in many ways, but I am determined to reconcile the differences in a way that just turn me into a doormat.


If you talk with her about it as you are concerned about her health and you really want her around for a long time she may feel better. And let it go. She has to do this herself. She obviously doesn't like it and shaming her is just going to make her eat more. Overeater's anonymous is a really good organization that may help. It treats food as an addiction (which it is) and is just like AA for alchoholics. You could mention it and then let her decide if that is how she wants to proceed.


----------



## Pooh Bear

ook said:


> *You brought up the subject of marriage vows. I think I promised the same to her.. can't actually remember precisely what I promised.*
> 
> 
> 
> A better question to ask our doctor would be if he took his kids there when they were three. I don't know for sure, but I know him quite well and I would be very surprised if he let them go there at all!
> 
> *All I'm getting from you is that to save my marriage I need to just bow down and let my wife do what ever she wants without any regard for me and all will be well. She has already won.
> *
> Thanks.


No. You set this up as domination, as in your wife has to obey you. Then you are saying that you promised her the same. I think that what you are trying to say here is that you do want equality. In that sort of relationship, no one bows down to anyone. You work together to accomplish the goal of making each other happy and raising children. That means compromise and really listening to each other. She loves her daughter as much as you do. Start there.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

lifeistooshort said:


> You are free to make choices for you and for your daughter when she's with you..... your wife is free to make choices for herself and her daughter when she has her. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Is your wife insisting that you get her fast food? So why is it that if your wife doesn't do things to your standards then you've bowed down to her and she's won?


:iagree:

There are a lot of ways that both can compromise here as long as they can give a little.


----------



## HypnoHealer

First, can anyone point me to the scientific study which shows ground beef is junk food?

Your ideas while well founded seem to be based on a complete lack of scientific knowledge.

Macdonald's beef is grass fed, humane slaughter and by itself is fine.
The fries have a high glycemic index, but in minor amounts are not going to harm your child, especially if she is healthy and active.

Your wife's obesity has either a biological base: like she had a badly form placenta hence the premature and low birth weight of your daughter. As a hint of this being possible.
Or psychological base: something in her belief system that as a mother she should have extra weight or be too tired or...

Dietdoctor.com This is the Swedish doctor who is at the heart of the 'real food' movement. His site looks at the science behind food ideas and various diets.

Most of the false ideas in American diets come from a single doctor with no nutritional training who thought Fat makes you fat. the exact opposite happens to be true. fat actually makes you thinner. The idea saturated fat is bad for is is also false.

There is not scinetific studies which show this to be true.

Eating a diet high in starch and sugar will increase your body fat. Insulin is a fat storing hormone designed to help us hundreds of thousands of years ago before abundant food was available.
Our desire to eat sweet is based on the fact it is a fast energy source and is never poisonous ( no sweet poisons in nature).

There is also a myth that eating cholesterol is bad for you, like eating eggs. Again false and no scientific study to back up this idea.

Your brain is largely made of cholesterol and eating eggs is a great why to get lecithin which is the precursor to acetylcholine and critical brain chemical.

Chocolate is also not bad for you, it is the sugar, so chocolates that are dark and lower in sugar higher in fat are actually good for you. Again good antioxidants and brain chemicals.

Eating is simple for adults, 6 days out of 7 eat (this means a 36 hour fast once a week to keep your stomach small) eat to 80% full and eat real food. High quality animal proteins, fats, nuts, raw milks, cheeses and full fat yogurts with live bacillus are better. Avoid start he's, refined foods, refined grains and foods that have a high glycemic index.

Glycemic index and glycemic load for 100+ foods - Harvard Health Publications

It is easy to buy food along the outside of the supermarket vegetables, meats and dairy and stay out of the aisles except for oils. Coconut, peanut (if not allergic), olive make the best oils for cooking.

When you cook make larger meals and freeze (date) so your wife can prepare healthy meals easily. Given that most of the great chefs of the world in the past were men, you might think about cooking more yourself and again make larger meals that are high in fat, high quality proteins, and separate out some before completely cooked, put in microwave containers and freeze.

Microwave vibrate molecules and are no different than a stove, or fire for heating food.

Please under stand doctors are in the sickness business, not the health business. They are great at trauma medicine, getting you from sick to Not Sick, but Not Sick is not healthy.
Unfortunately most of the people who are involved in the "health" business have very little science and more emotion or religion in their beliefs about what is or is not healthy. Apparently it is morally superior to slaughter and innocent tomato than to kill a cute bunny.
Of course there are a few studies that seem to indicate tomatoes might be a source of joint diseases like arthritis, 
While bunnies are cute, they are delicious as well.

Hope that helps you and recommend you learn a bit about nutrition and science before you. Get too much further down your morally superior road.

I am a brain scientist, just for reference. And a human, though perhaps only part-time or partially according to my daughters.

As to the junk food problem I found having a cake, candy, doughnut day, I mean start a breakfast, doughnuts, jelly beans etc.mby 2 pm my kids are begging for some real food and do not want to see candy again for a good long while.

Overloading like this every six months is less harmful to the body than trying to limit daily intake. In general it creates more aversion because too much sugar will make you feel sick and your brain starts to associate sugary foods with feeling sick.

A few thoughts and experiences

BTW on total cholesterol women appear to do better at 210-230
While men are better at the 190-200 range. Again women are not men.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

So I haven't read it all but I'm glad you seem to be willing to listen and assess your reaction and your wife's issues. I'm more solution oriented so I have a few suggestions.

Regarding your wife's food choices - Perhaps you two can sit down and come up with some healthy snacks she LIKES. Almonds? Raisins? Look up portion sizes on the internet, pre-package them in snack baggies and put a few in the car or her purse. Buy a couple refillable water bottles and if she doesn't like plain water, find out what she likes. Maybe a wedge of lemon and some stevia for a light lemonade? Then you can suggest (not demand or dictate - you are helping her make good choices not telling her) that if she gets very hungry she should drink at least half of a bottle of water and continue working on whatever for 10 minutes. If she is still so hungry, then she can have ONE of her snacks and no more than one between meals. This will help her learn that the hunger won't get too uncomfortable. She will have a plan already mapped out so she doesn't have to make decisions while hungry.

Do the same with your daughter. Can you compromise on something like graham crackers and natural peanut butter or a chocolate hazelnut spread? Or maybe look up some recipes to make in your own food processor to avoid corn syrups? Then your daughter can have treats [i.e. biscuits] that are healthy and yummy and you AND your wife can agree on them. 

I know you are approaching this (or rationalizing) with nutrition but there seems to be a great deal of fear. You fear your daughter will somehow fall VERY ill if she isn't fed the highest epitome of a healthy diet. Likely that is untrue. Maybe you and your wife can look at some fast food restaurant menus and determine a place and some meals that you both find OK. For instance in the US, Chick Fil A offers all white meat grilled nuggets and fruit sides. Instaed of BANNING certain foods, instead figure out how to HAVE some of those foods within reason. Graham crackers vs. cookies. ONE soda drink a week. Maybe iced green tea with a little natural sweetener can be another option. Some greek yogurts come in vanilla. Mix in frozen fruits and put in a blender for "ice cream". 

Enroll you and your wife in a cooking class for date night. Help her learn the traits of quality foods. Grow some of your own as you are able, even if it's just some potted plants or herbs. Getting in touch with food sources can help.

In the end emphasize love and support and NEVER bash for wandering off the path you two have set. But if you don't dictate and you ACTIVELY get her input, you have a better shot. My guess is you TELL her, ask if she agrees with you and of course she feels compelled to agree while inside she's thinking how hard this will be because you have no PLAN.

Meanwhile, get your daughter to help cook, too. Let her help measure things, spoon things in or stir things up. She'll learn to cook and appreciate the work that goes into truly good food.


----------



## 343612534

Good for you to worry about your childs nutritional education and habits. Bad for your wife as she broke her word.

My wife and I have weight issues but managed to not pass this on to the kids. They were offered meals and allowed to quit eating when they wished. We did plead for them to try new things and that worked with one of them. My wife wanted to "reward" them for eating their baby food by serving up a baby food desert. I flipped out and we negotiated a compromise of fruit included with the meal. Sweets were allowed but not pushed as reward or a way to deal with disappointment. McD was a part of their life more so than you would be comfortable with. The point I hope to make is that both children are in their 20s they are both normal body types. One child may have starved with out chicken nuggets. Rather than make food an issue or reward we made hunger the trigger to eat. I don't think we clogged their arteries and they are of age that they have the information to eat how they wish, they have survived and thrived, and have mesomorphic bodys and behaviors.

Fat people generally have fat children, fatter than themselves. Some of that is genetic but it is mostly behavior related. Ask your wife to break the fat issue now. Ask her if she wants them to have the difficulties she has had.


----------



## ook

lifeistooshort said:


> Ok, I know I said I was out but I want to answer:
> 
> Nope. I specifically said you could model good choices, that is not bowing down. I said you can't force this and thus can't win this battle. So what are you going to do? Continue to follow her demanding explanations? What do you realistically think you're going to achieve? What you're doing isn't working, and you want to know how you can make her do this your way. The answer is that you can't. People here are trying to get you to understand that you're creating a power struggle and thus a self fulfilling prophesy. You're acting like a parent, you nag your wife and demand explanations, she responds like a rebellious kid. Rinse and repeat. It's not a healthy marital dynamic.
> 
> You are free to make choices for you and for your daughter when she's with you..... your wife is free to make choices for herself and her daughter when she has her. Why is this so hard to comprehend? Is your wife insisting that you get her fast food? So why is it that if your wife doesn't do things to your standards then you've bowed down to her and she's won?
> 
> You are seeing this as controlling your daughter but to the extent that you and your wife aren't on the same page it involves controlling your wife, which you can't do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Have spent some time thinking about this and I can see what you are saying. There really isn't much I can do other than try to be the best I can be. 

It really does get to me though. It seems that in parenting it is the parent that wants to avoid things that has the harder time. I want to avoid junk food and theres nothing I can do to prevent it. A couple of summers ago I took my daughter blackberry picking. She loved it and still talks about it now. But the wife wasn't so keen. She was worried that it would teach her to pick random berries and would end up with a poisonous one. I disagreed and thought it was a real shame but I figured it was important to the wife. We haven't been out picking since. However there really is nothing other than my respect for my wife's wishes preventing us from going out again. I just wish I could somehow instill the same respect in my wife.


----------



## ook

In the meantime I have doubled my efforts to make sure I always have some healthy snacks to hand. The more convenient I can make it to eat healthy the more likely it is to happen.


----------

