# Faking remorse



## completely_lost

My WW appears to be very sorry for her 3 year A, but I can't help but think it's all just a big act. How hard/easy would it be for a WS to fake being remorseful? I figure not that hard since they all have mastered the art of lying. How do I know she's truly sorry? I haven't posted my whole story yet because it's still unfolding. She admitted that she had been having an A for the past 3 years but has claimed NC since March. I talked to her the other day about the NC letter I read about on this site and she refuses to write or send one to the OM. I have been keeping a close eye on her but I'm not sure she has completely cut ties with the OM, she won't tell me much about him. Should I push her for more Info?


----------



## warlock07

No NC letter is a deal breaker. If she cannot even do that, she is not faking it, she just does not have any remorse. Judge her by her actions, not words. Words are easy.


----------



## keko

Well obviously she is talented enough to hide a 3 year affair, I don't see her having a problem faking a remorse.

Since she is refusing to send a NC letter, why exactly are you still with her? She already gave you an answer as to what she thinks of a marriage with you.

Go through her phone bill, emails, facebook to find out who the OM is and notify his wife/gf, family, friends and coworkers.


----------



## iheartlife

Refusal to do an NC letter = no remorse

No remorse = False R


Our own marriage counselor (well-versed about infidelity in marriage) insisted on an NC letter. It is outrageous for a WS to refuse to do one and I wouldn't reconcile with a spouse who took that position.

Does she say why she won't?


----------



## tacoma

No NC letter no marriage.

There`s no reason why she wouldn`t send it if she wasn`t trying to keep a door open.

She`ll tell you "It ended months ago, it`ll be stupid to send it now!"

Your answer should be "So what if he thinks it`s stupid, why do you care what he thinks?"


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

She had a three year affair. Dude, your marriage is history. She bonded with the OM and is only sorry that you're in the way of her 'happiness'. 

Grow a pair and kick her to the curb.


----------



## keko

completely_lost said:


> I have been keeping a close eye on her but I'm not sure she has completely cut ties with the OM, she won't tell me much about him.


How did you first found out about the affair? Just the word of her mouth or have you confirmed anything?


----------



## Good Dog

completely_lost said:


> My WW appears to be very sorry for her 3 year A, but I can't help but think it's all just a big act. How hard/easy would it be for a WS to fake being remorseful? I figure not that hard since they all have mastered the art of lying. How do I know she's truly sorry? I haven't posted my whole story yet because it's still unfolding. She admitted that she had been having an A for the past 3 years but has claimed NC since March. I talked to her the other day about the NC letter I read about on this site and she refuses to write or send one to the OM. I have been keeping a close eye on her but I'm not sure she has completely cut ties with the OM, she won't tell me much about him. Should I push her for more Info?


Remember to judge her by her actions, not her words. If she's refusing the NC letter, she's spelling things out for you loud and clear. Also, the tale that the A ended long before the WS is caught is a common one and usually false.


----------



## completely_lost

keko said:


> How did you first found out about the affair? Just the word of her mouth or have you confirmed anything?


How I found out is, a few months ago she was out shopping with her sister. Her sister called to say she left one of her shopping bags in my wifes car but my wife wasn't home yet. A few hours pass and her cell phone goes right to voicemail. She finally comes home all smiles and I say how was your day, she says great. I said where have you been? She says I've been shopping and then my sister and I went out for dinner. I said really she says yes. I said that's funny cause your sister called 4 hours ago and wasn't with you. She went white as a sheet and started crying. She blurted out everything, I was floored. I didn't suspect a thing. I should mention we work didn't hours and I travel for work at least once a month so It was pretty easy for her to carry on the long term affair.


----------



## keko

completely_lost said:


> How I found out is, a few months ago she was out shopping with her sister. Her sister called to say she left one of her shopping bags in my wifes car but my wife wasn't home yet. A few hours pass and her cell phone goes right to voicemail. She finally comes home *all smiles * and I say how was your day, *she says great*. I said where have you been? She says I've been shopping and then my sister and I went out for dinner. I said really she says yes. I said that's funny cause your sister called 4 hours ago and wasn't with you. She went white as a sheet and started crying. She blurted out everything, I was floored. I didn't suspect a thing. I should mention we work didn't hours and I travel for work at least once a month so It was pretty easy for her to carry on the long term affair.


That is all you needed to hear. I don't see how you will ever be able to trust her since she was able to lie straight into your face like it was nothing.

Please do yourself a favor and start respecting yourself. Pack her stuff in garbage bags and put them on the front lawn for her to pick up. Change the locks as well and go dark on her.


----------



## warlock07

Check her mails and stuff. She might be hiding multiple affairs. Have you exposed the OM to his wife/SO?

Also ages, length of marriage, OM(colleague, friend, stranger on internet?)?


----------



## morituri

A cheating wife who was truly remorseful would move heaven and earth for her betrayed husband to prove her seriousness about reconciling. Her refusal to send the NC speaks volumes as to the seriousness of her desire to reconcile. As Good Dog said, judge her actions and not her words.


----------



## completely_lost

warlock07 said:


> Check her mails and stuff. She might be hiding multiple affairs. Have you exposed the OM to his wife/SO?
> 
> Also ages, length of marriage, OM(colleague, friend, stranger on internet?)?



She never uses the home computer, she uses her work computer. Her cell phone has no indication of her still in contact with OM. He is single and her former colleague, they haven't worked together in over a year. Nothing on her email account that I can find. I don't know if my marriage can be saved, or if it's even worth the effort.


----------



## warlock07

> I don't know if my marriage can be saved, or if it's even worth the effort.


Did you tell her the same? Also kids?


----------



## OldWolf57

no she did not blurt out everything !! it will probably be someone you are friends with. Thats why she is refusing to tell who. May I ask, how old are you ?? Can you look in the mirrow and see the same man that was there a week ago. No, for that man had selfrespect, and your wife and POSOM made sure this one don't. You do know how to get it back right ?? By ridding yourself of the ***** that hold so much contempt for you, that she went and F**Ked all day with you in town. Then came home still leaking to lie in your face and kiss you on the cheek, while looking you dead in the eye. Damn, I bet the CIA could really use her. Well if you are going to keep her, you can at least take pride in the fact, that you have a stone coldhearted woman.


----------



## keko

She likely bought a burner phone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

OldWolf57 said:


> no she did not blurt out everything !! it will probably be someone you are friends with. Thats why she is refusing to tell who.


Yes, you had better push for more info. This is essential information, if you don't have it, you are fighting her affair with one hand tied behind your back.


----------



## Shaggy

Have you exposed the affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Toe tag.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

It's a waste of breath but....

FWIW... regarding indications of genuine remorse I once put together a short list on the subject of determining if your WS was being genuine and remorseful which some found useful...

____________________________

REMORSE

There is no infallable way to know if what you are seeing is genuine remorse or not.

What I would start with would be your gut... that's where it all begins. No one knows your spouse quite the way that you do. Do you sense genuine remorse? 

As with all people that mislead, lie or decieve there are always subtle non-verbal cues (facial expressions) which can give you some indication whether the person is being genuine...

People who fake remorse tend to show a greater range of emotional expressions and swing from one emotion to another very quickly - if the base emotional responses are grouped into three categories; Good (happy) /Neutral (neutral, surprise). /Bad (sadness, fear, anger, contempt, disgust) a person intentionally decieving you will tend to swing from category to category very quickly. Particularly from good to bad or bad to good (skipping nuetral). The phenomenon is referred to as emotional turbulence - They will also speak with more hesitation.

It might also bear mentioning that the saying about people lying not looking you in the eyes, is actually completely false in the case of WS's. You will find that they go out of the way to look you dead in the eyes while lying to you. 


There are also some qualities/behaviors to look for when someone is genuinely remorseful... 

They are signs/actions that someone will commonly exhibit (coping mechinisms) when internally healing from an action or decision that they have made which they feel was wrong... These are obviously not hard cold "musts" for a spouse to qualify as genuinely remorseful... But, I hope this gives you a "roadmap" of some indicators....

1. A remorseful spouse is willing if not eager to confess everything about the behaviors and mistakes they made. They commonly show a genuine desire to "come clean". 

2. A remorseful spouse is openly accountable for their actions and seeks to identify and make changes to insure that this behavior does not reoccur. (They feel genuine pain, therefore they seek to prevent this pain from reoccuring. (normal human response to pain - AVOID IT) (No genuine pain = No reason to seek a solution to avoid repeating that pain).

3. A remorseful spouse will seek to "work", not only on themselves but on general life responsibilities. A remorseful spouse faces the responsibilities of thier day-to-day life and will often show increased motivation to meet those tasks. The work is often approached in a more "humble" way by the remorseful spouse. 

4. A remorseful spouse will not object to limitations (i.e. transperency, no contact letters) set by the faithful spouse as a result their actions and in an effort to promote the healing of the violated trust. 

5. A remorseful spouse faces the pain they have caused. A remorseful spouse will allow you to express the intesity of the feelings and hurt their actions have caused without justifying, minimizing or blame-shifting.

6. A remorseful spouse seeks forgiveness and respects the process of forgiveness often takes time. They will not be impatient or pressure the injured spouse to say "I forgive you" and will never exhibit a "get over it!" attitude. 

Sorry you are all here, but hope this proves useful to you on your journey.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

completely_lost said:


> My WW appears to be very sorry for her 3 year A................ I talked to her the other day about the NC letter I read about on this site and she refuses to write or send one to the OM.


:scratchhead:


----------



## Machiavelli

completely_lost said:


> she won't tell me much about him. Should I push her for more Info?


She's telling you plenty. here's what she's saying, "I'm going to keep it up with the OM and you're going to sit down and shut up, and if you do maybe we'll let you watch."

Divorce her @$$.


----------



## Machiavelli

completely_lost said:


> I don't know if my marriage can be saved...it's NOT worth the effort.


Fixed that for you.


----------



## Acabado

Non negotiable dealbreakers:
NC letter
Full transparence and acountability of whereabouts.
Fulll disclosure (you chose the lovel)

Any faliure = filing for D.
I she does then wait to see the actions. Words mean sh!t.


----------



## bryanp

Lets get real here. Your wife has been in a sexual affair for the past 3 YEARS and you had no clue. She has horribly betrayed and humiliated you for 3 YEARS. She has put your health at risk for STD's for the past 3 YEARS. On top of this she will not even write a no contact letter after 3 YEARS banging her lover.

Are you out of your mind? How much humiliation and disrespect are you willing to endure? The last 3 years of your life and marriage has been one giant lie. If the roles were reversed your wife would have been with an attorney already. Do you think she would have been so forgiving and accepting as you have been? Do you think she engaged in this affair for 3 YEARS because she knew if she got found out you would have immediately forgiven her anyway so she had nothing to lose. If you do not respect yourself then who will.

I suggest the following:
1. Get the both of you tested for STD's immediately.
2. Contact the OM's wife or girlfriend immediately.
3. Expose this affair to everyone.
4. See a lawyer to understand your options.

She humiliated and betrayed you in the worst possible way for 3 long years. Do you feel proud and special that she is your wife? Your anniversaries for the last 3 years she must have been laughing to herself what a fool her husband is. You wish to remain with her? What is wrong with this picture?


----------



## Chaparral

completely_lost said:


> My WW appears to be very sorry for her 3 year A, but I can't help but think it's all just a big act. How hard/easy would it be for a WS to fake being remorseful? I figure not that hard since they all have mastered the art of lying. How do I know she's truly sorry? I haven't posted my whole story yet because it's still unfolding. She admitted that she had been having an A for the past 3 years but has claimed NC since March. I talked to her the other day about the NC letter I read about on this site and she refuses to write or send one to the OM. I have been keeping a close eye on her but I'm not sure she has completely cut ties with the OM, she won't tell me much about him. Should I push her for more Info?


VAR in car and in home where she is most likely to make a phone call.

Real time GPS unit to trak her car. Phone too.

Does she say she wants to save the marriage/ Does she say she loves you? How is/was your sex life?

Kids?

Find his number/name look him up on spokeo.com . If you got the idea he is single from your wife there is a good chance he is married. 

Cheaters rarely tell the truth.

Keylogger on her computer/phone.

NC letter or deal is off.


----------



## Jibril

completely_lost, While I believe that some cheating spouses can show remorse and can work towards rebuilding a marriage with their betrayed spouse, the process takes a lot of effort, on your part and _certainly_ on her part. Being the cynical person that I am, I generally feel that reconciling _isn't_ worth the effort. I don't _want_ to tell you what to decide, but your situation is not looking good. 

With that said - A letter of no-contact is an absolute _must_. This is *not* open to discussion. This is the first and most important step in reconcile. That she refuses to do this is _staggering_. I would have made a mad-dash to my lawyer the moment she said no. Her refusal shows you that she does not want to "burn her bridge" and excise the other man from her life. Which means that she could easily pick-up the affair when you turn the other way, assuming she hasn't _already_ resumed.

As others have stated, a truly remorseful cheating spouse will do everything in their power to make the marriage work, and help you heal. Instead of at least _pretending_ to give a damned about your feelings, she slammed the door on the very first step towards recovery.

No. I do not believe she is remorseful. I believe the affair has been utterly ignored and swept under the rug.

I highly suggest that you expose her disgusting betrayal to her family, friends, and colleagues. If she won't burn the bridge, maybe being stigmatized by everyone she knows will push her to do it.

However, if she is truly not remorseful (and I don't think she is) she will rear her venomous head and fight you bloody hard. Which will show you exactly where her loyalties lie - with her affair partner, whom you've now made inaccessible, and not to you.

I'm sorry mate, but I think you should divorce her. Remember - you aren't "giving up," so don't beat yourself up over the fact that it isn't working out. The marriage is already null thanks to her betrayal. You're simply removing a cancer from your life.


----------



## jnj express

Hey CL----How are you able to look at her without vomiting,--how could you even wanna touch her, you would be touching filth, what could the words from her mouth be, but lies

The day you "outed her"------she came home all smiles, she had just spent THREE F'ING HOURS WITH HER LOVER, why wouldn't she be all smiles

Why is she anywhere near you, FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS, YOUR MGE, HAS BEEN ONE LONG LIE----Do you think you will get over this anytime soon, if you do---THEN YOU HAVE NO RESPECT FOR YOURSELF

You may love your wife---but what you have to understand is YOUR WIFE DIED THREE YEARS AGO---who is this person/monster/liar/con artist, that presents herself to you now.

She had three years with her lover, three years, where you were in the backround---go over to cheaterville, and sites like that, and read----and then get sick-----your wife was that person.

Why would you wanna stay with her---BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU, she still LOVES HIM---he is not leaving her mind anytime soon---AND HE WILL BE AN ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, IN ANYTHING THAT YOU ATTEMPT TO DO, TOWARD R.

Once again how do you stand to look at/touch/talk to her.-----I would think puking would be preferable to anything done with this woman who gave you SLOPPY SECONDS FOR THREE YEARS!!!!!!!


----------



## survivorwife

completely_lost said:


> She never uses the home computer, she uses her work computer. Her cell phone has no indication of her still in contact with OM. He is single and her former colleague, they haven't worked together in over a year. Nothing on her email account that I can find. I don't know if my marriage can be saved, or if it's even worth the effort.


Have you considered the possibility of another email account that she could have created and used for this purpose?

As to whether your marriage can be save, it does take two to save the marriage. If she is not into the effort, then sadly there is no hope, just time. It's then up to you to decide how to use that time, knowing that you won't get it back.


----------



## iheartlife

survivorwife said:


> Have you considered the possibility of another email account that she could have created and used for this purpose?


That's what my husband did--created a secret email account so they could communicate via the internet from any computer or phone without detection.


----------



## completely_lost

I just got home from Target, I purchased two VAR's one for her car and one for the house. I'm going golfing for the weekend so I'm thinking this would be the time to gather info. I still love my wife, I just hate what she did to us. We have two young adult children and I do not want them to know what we're going through. It's incredibly embarrassing, how could I have so blind for so long?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

completely_lost said:


> It's incredibly embarrassing, how could I have so blind for so long?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Get that out of your head. *Right now.*

You were blind because you trusted and love your wife, that is what you are supposed to do. 

There is absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about. This is not your fault, you could be the greatest husband in the universe and this still could have happened. It is an indication of fault in your wife, NOT you. 

If you are ashamed of this, you will sweep it under the rug and you will try to hide it. In doing that you will be enabling the affair. Affairs are like mushrooms, the grow in the dark and feed on bullsh*t. You wany _any_ shot?, *don't you dare* keep this secret in the dark for them.


----------



## completely_lost

I'm not keeping it quiet for my wife'ss sake, I'm doing for my children. They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent. I think I'm just very numb at this point.


----------



## iheartlife

Listen to Pit.

Here's how to flip this around: know that cheaters count on and depend on betrayed spouses being too paralyzed by embarrassment to do much, if anything, to stop the affair. If you let your shame dictate your reaction to what is going on, you are letting your fear turn you into an enabler.

Busting an affair wide open takes inner strength and bravery. You have it in you--dig down deep and find it.


----------



## keko

For golfing how far are you away from your house? Can you check up on her whereabouts? 

It's pretty obvious she will meet up with the OM.


----------



## daisygirl 41

I Know im going to get blasted for this but i really do struggle with the NC letter thing!
Even if a NC letter is written and sent then this is still no guarantee that the A isnt still going on!

Picture the scene WS txts AP - "He's making me send you a NC letter. Take no notice of it. i'm just doing it to get him off my back"
:scratchhead:

I just dont see how a NC letter is proof that the A is over!


----------



## Wanting1

completely lost,

It is very difficult to hate a parent that you have always had an even decent relationship with. Your children may initially feel anger towards your wife, but they will deal with it and resume a relationship with her. 

My father was/is a serial cheater. I feel sad for my parents' relationship with each other, but I don't hate him. I had some anger towards him during my teen years, but eventually I realized that it wasn't my place to feel that anger. I accept him, faults and all, because he is my father. We have a relationship that is completely outside of his relationship with my mother. I wish they could have had a better marriage, but their marriage is not about me. I'm sure your children will come to the same realization.


----------



## iheartlife

daisygirl 41 said:


> I Know im going to get blasted for this but i really do struggle with the NC letter thing!
> Even if a NC letter is written and sent then this is still no guarantee that the A isnt still going on!
> 
> Picture the scene WS txts AP - "He's making me send you a NC letter. Take no notice of it. i'm just doing it to get him off my back"
> :scratchhead:
> 
> I just dont see how a NC letter is proof that the A is over!


It isn't proof that the affair is over.

What it does (in the words of our very good MC) is it creates an ending ritual. It creates a barrier, albeit small, where the OM / OW is officially rejected and now to reestablish the relationship a bit of face-saving has to be overcome.

It also officially sets up a line where verification starts. It NC is breached, that triggers consequences.

NC letters all by themselves are worthless pieces of paper. It's the hard consequences enforcing them that make them worth the time.

Most people aren't willing to file for divorce or expose, and those are pretty much the only consequences strong enough to make the NC mean something.

Them's the breaks.


----------



## completely_lost

keko said:


> For golfing how far are you away from your house? Can you check up on her whereabouts?
> 
> It's pretty obvious she will meet up with the OM.


I'll be about a 4 hour drive away from home and I'm gone for two nights. I refuse to make my wife stay with me, if she doesn't want me then, I am willing to let her go.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

Dude you are so screwed. The affair isn't over, its been put on the back burner until the dust settles which is why she refused the NC (she doesn't want to permantly end it). She didn't end it on her own, she got busted.

You can't just walk away from a 3 YEAR relationship like that and not look back at some point. This is not over, not by a long shot and odds are you are going to be dealing with the fallout for the next several months, if not a year or two. She WILL try to hook up with him some time in the future, its just a matter of when.


----------



## completely_lost

I agree with iheartlife, how can words stop an affair? They are simply just words, and if she not willing to live by the words on that piece of paper then it is all just a waste of ink.


----------



## keko

completely_lost said:


> I'll be about a 4 hour drive away from home and I'm gone for two nights. I refuse to make my wife stay with me, if she doesn't want me then, I am willing to let her go.


You have to be proactive, if you leave it up to her you'll be losing another 3 years of your life with false R.

Since she is refusing to name the OM, it is likely he is one of your close friends/relatives. Are you suspicious of anyone? Any of them happy that you'll be golfing?


----------



## iheartlife

completely_lost said:


> I agree with iheartlife, how can words stop an affair? They are simply just words, and if she not willing to live by the words on that piece of paper then it is all just a waste of ink.


Yes, but that doesn't mean I don't believe in No Contact letters.

I believe in No Contact letters + swift enforcement.

It's probably because of my parenting style. Cheaters are very much like children. You are shaping their behavior by the way you react to their misbehavior. If you coddle them, they'll do it again. If you confront directly without enough evidence, they'll lie. And if you threaten anything and don't follow through, you are in for a world of hurt because now they will take what they learned in situation X and apply it to situation Y. You are literally training them to cheat on you more and better. 

We often use the phrase ACTIONS, NOT WORDS to apply to whether or not a cheater is remorseful.

The same applies double for the betrayed spouse. Words are worthless.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

completely_lost said:


> They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent.


Being a good parent is more than just handling the day to day aspects of ensuring the kids are fed and clothed. It is about setting an example, being a good role model and teaching them right from wrong. In that area, your wife as an absolute crappy parent.

So how are you as a parent in this area? What are you teaching your children? Are you teaching them that this behavior is acceptable and should be tolerated, or are you teaching them about standing up for what is right and providing consequences for poor behavior. What are you teaching your kids to accept in a marriage?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Please take this as intended, I'm trying to help you...

Get your flucking head out of your a$$. This is not going to play out anything like your imagining. Everything you hear, and everything you see is a lie. 

Wake up call.

Like it or not, you are about to play a very high stakes game, if you don't make the rules you will be playing by hers... You will get eaten alive. 

Your in the eye of a storm. Your reality is rooted on two things right now... What she tells you, and what you feel. Neither one of them can be trusted. 

She is lying to you and you are lying to yourself. She is protecting herself and her interests and you are protecting yourself. Your in shock, an thermo nuclear emotional bomb just exploded on your world... There is a basic human reaction that almost everyone experiences in these situations... We are all compelled to 'fix' and we use denial, rationalizations, minimizing and blame martyring to compartmentalize the pain and cope with the crisis.... It's all smoke and mirrors bro... These things are your enemy if you want real reconciliation...

This is the reality she has brought on your family, you are not doing anyone any favors by re-writing it or hiding it. 

In my experience, the ones that survive these trials and find the path to true reconciliation are always the ones that stare it in the eyes and find the courage to attack it head on. If your don't own this fight, it will own you.


----------



## Machiavelli

completely_lost said:


> I'll be about a 4 hour drive away from home and I'm gone for two nights. I refuse to make my wife stay with me, if she doesn't want me then, I am willing to let her go.


Fvckfest Weekend!!!

Man, you need to call a PI right now.


----------



## Machiavelli

Machiavelli said:


> Man, you need to call a PI right now.


Better yet, head out to golf, then double back. Get a hotel room and find out "who's been sleeping in my bed?" I think you need to see her in action to get the full effect. Maybe they're heading out to the local swinger's club tonight.

ETA: Golf's really that important at a time like this? Pull your head out.


----------



## Sara8

completely_lost said:


> She never uses the home computer, she uses her work computer. Her cell phone has no indication of her still in contact with OM. He is single and her former colleague, they haven't worked together in over a year. Nothing on her email account that I can find. I don't know if my marriage can be saved, or if it's even worth the effort.


No. I don't think so. 

She is obviously very experienced. Typically if she has nothing on home computer or cell phone, they are experienced enough to use burn phones and own another computer they use to email each other. 

A private detective is the best way to catch a cheater. They aren't cheap though.

I already filed for Divorce and I am still finding out about secret accounts and credit cards and cash stashed. 

If it is any comfort. I had no clue either. I totally trusted the guy. 

I feel like a moron. The pain is tremendous, the triggers are everywhere. The humiliation makes my cheeks burn sometimes when I think of how he lied while looking me straight in the eyes and so many times, too.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Three years of lie, deceit and banging on your back, still you want to be with her, REALLY?


----------



## Shaggy

The cost of a PI for this weekend will be very very worth it. Pitty you don't have a gos tracker on her car.

But hire the PI ASAP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Sara8

daisygirl 41 said:


> I Know im going to get blasted for this but i really do struggle with the NC letter thing!
> Even if a NC letter is written and sent then this is still no guarantee that the A isnt still going on!
> 
> Picture the scene WS txts AP - "He's making me send you a NC letter. Take no notice of it. i'm just doing it to get him off my back"
> :scratchhead:
> 
> I just dont see how a NC letter is proof that the A is over!


I agree. Nothing can stop the affair, if the two want to continue. 

A no contact letter won't do it, and neither will exposure. 

It most cases it will simply make them craftier. 

The exposure is for the BS sake. A lot of cheaters present themselves as nice people and when outed in an affair start rewriting history to turn the BS into the Ogre.

Exposure preempts that.


----------



## Thorburn

My wife could not fake remorse, just like she could not fake being in an A, just like I know when she is into me during sex, etc. I know when she is lying. That is me and my situation I know her fairly well. 

Remorse is seen by actions and words. Your wife is not showing remorse like the others have said. 

Pit is dead on.


----------



## completely_lost

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Three years of lie, deceit and banging on your back, still you want to be with her, REALLY?


I'm not sure I even want to stay married to her. About 5 years ago we separated for 2 months, not because of cheating. We have had issues in the marriage but always worked through them, I just don't think I've got that much fight left in me. I just don't want to be taken to the cleaners and if it gets nasty it could cost me alot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

completely_lost said:


> I'm not sure I even want to stay married to her. About 5 years ago we separated for 2 months, not because of cheating. We have had issues in the marriage but always worked through them, I just don't think I've got that much fight left in me. I just don't want to be taken to the cleaners and if it gets nasty it could cost me alot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She'll take you either way.


----------



## survivorwife

completely_lost said:


> I'm not sure I even want to stay married to her. About 5 years ago we separated for 2 months, not because of cheating. We have had issues in the marriage but always worked through them, I just don't think I've got that much fight left in me. I just don't want to be taken to the cleaners and if it gets nasty it could cost me alot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Keep in mind, worse case scenario, you could lose no more than half of your net assets. That could be a lot or a little, depending on what you own. Anything that wasn't a marital asset doesn't count, you keep that. Depending on her age and ability to find employment you may or may not have to pay spousal support. The person who keeps the marital house "for the children" (assuming minor children are involved) only gets to ride that train for a specific period of time - not forever. Then the property gets sold and the net proceeds split.

And what's more important to you, the money, or being free?


----------



## OldWolf57

what you are still not seeing, is that those problems was because of the cheating. and yeah all marriages have problems, but maybe you was reacting to her giving you some bad vibes for some reason. short tempered, cool toward you, you see what I mean ?? She say 3 yrs, but could it have really been 5? That may have really been when it was starting. you just never got the ILYBINILWY speech. And now if she say 5 instead, you would automatically put two an two together. Look, just take this as a opportunity to trade up from a lemon to a peach. Her long held contempt is just too much for her to hide at how she made a complete fool out of you, so she is not even trying So give her what she needs, and let her live how hard it is for a middle age cheating sk**k to find someone to grow old with. Two young adult kids, lil $$ in the bank, "even after", with a DAMN good reason to dump a morally bankrupt Sl*t, hell, we could call you Forbes. Not the Donald and his Ga. peach. We all saw how long that lasted. About as long as it took for her to get caught with the lifeguard under the lifeguard stand on the beach at night. But you get my drift. YOU if you want, will be a REAL catch for some good woman looking for a good man. So yeah, its not worth it, to continue live with someone who holds so little respect for herself, you, your children, and your marriage. And to be honest. You don't really sound completely lost. Sadden maybe, also a little relieved. So take the gift she gave you and give her walking papers.


----------



## CH

completely_lost said:


> She never uses the home computer, she uses her work computer. Her cell phone has no indication of her still in contact with OM. He is single and her former colleague, they haven't worked together in over a year. Nothing on her email account that I can find. I don't know if my marriage can be saved, or if it's even worth the effort.


It's never worth the effort and if you have no kids together just cut the cord and move on. I'm a cheater and I'm the 1st to say it's never worth it to get back with a cheater, NEVER. The time and energy it takes a toll.

Things can be happy and great but looking back my wife is not the same person she used to be before it. She's changed a little bit but it's noticeable and it's sad because I'm the cause of it. She could have moved on and met another who could have given her 100% like she gave to me and lived a way, way, way happier life.

It can still be great but it could be even better than great without the cheater. But that's just me jabbering only.


----------



## Chaparral

cheatinghubby said:


> It's never worth the effort and if you have no kids together just cut the cord and move on. I'm a cheater and I'm the 1st to say it's never worth it to get back with a cheater, NEVER. The time and energy it takes a toll.
> 
> Things can be happy and great but looking back my wife is not the same person she used to be before it. She's changed a little bit but it's noticeable and it's sad because I'm the cause of it. She could have moved on and met another who could have given her 100% like she gave to me and lived a way, way, way happier life.
> 
> It can still be great but it could be even better than great without the cheater. But that's just me jabbering only.


Has your wife told you this? If she hasn't ask her and get back to us with her version. That should really be interesting.


----------



## MattMatt

completely_lost said:


> I'm not keeping it quiet for my wife'ss sake, I'm doing for my children. They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent. I think I'm just very numb at this point.


Really? Close to them in what way? "Oh, *I* know! I'll cheat on my children's father! That's a really cool idea!"

Your wife's idea of "close" and "excellent parent" doesn't seem to be in any dictionary I have seen, yet...


----------



## MattMatt

keko said:


> You have to be proactive, if you leave it up to her you'll be losing another 3 years of your life with false R.
> 
> Since she is refusing to name the OM, it is likely he is one of your close friends/relatives. Are you suspicious of anyone? Any of them happy that you'll be golfing?


And the reasons you know it is 'only' three years and 'just' the one lover is because....? Oh, yeah! She told you, didn't she?

But if she can live the live of posing as your faithful spouse for three years (or more) then she can lie about length of the affair, number of lovers, etc.


----------



## Catherine602

Completely - you don't have to decide definitely about R now. Let it ride for now. See a lawyer with out letting her know and see where you stand. Although cheating does not effect the property split formally, informally it does. Judges do not look favorably on cheaters. Get documentation. Did she spend any family assets to conduct the affair. How much time did she take with the AP that could have been spent with her children and husband. Figure in the time for communication, emails, text, phone, travel, hotels, etc. did she ever leave the kids with a baby sitter to meet the OM? 

How often did you have sex with her and how often did she and the OM? She took things of value away from you and your kids for 3 yrs. she was not present mentally with her children if she was leading a double life. I don't call her a good mother. She is a moral failure and poor example to children. She took time away from nurturing her children to persue sexual pleasure for 3 yrs. what good mother would abandon her children for the persuit of trivial oragsms? 

She does not want to send a NC letter? Then she cares more about the OM than she dies you, the man who has remainded faithful to her. I am not sure what other motivation you have for staying besides finances and of course children. 

The financial stuff can be mitigated by careful planing, documentation and a good lawyer. You will recover financially from the divorce.. 

It will take you about 5 yrs to get over this. By that time you can be in a new relationship with a woman who is honest and loving. You will also have recovered financially. What will your life be with an unrepentant wife that enjoys the warmth of a home with you? Perhaps in 5 yrs she will think it is safe to have another affair. 

It sounds to me as if she does not diserve a faithful good husband. I think it will dawn on you eventually what is best to do. No hurry but plan well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Since the actions are not there, and you want to get her on board, you need to start tightening the screws. Of course you must realize no matter what happens, there is a good chance this is going to end in divorce. 

See a lawyer, let her know you have seen one without telling her. Start filling out the papers etc. Start making lists of what needs to be done, things you don't want, things you do. 

How much time, what days you want the kids. Where they will go to school. Plans to sell the house. Ask your wife if she knows a real estate agent to sell the house.

Nothing in particular but make sure she gets a clear message you can and will move on and that you will be fine. Any time you show weakness she will treat you like a dog. Don't let her do it. Be stronger than her and fight for your kids lives.


----------



## morituri

whitelamp said:


> I don't really understand the concept of the NC letter. It is not a legal document and carries no weight with the law. Unlike a legal contract that is enforceable, the NC letter only serves to make the BS feel safer for lack of better word. The issue at hand is the willingness of the WS to want to R. Having them write a letter will not make them uphold the contents. Most will agree to anything to make peace if they think they can get away with it.


It is a symbolic action taken willingly by the DS/WS in order to show his/her LS/BS how serious he/she is about doing *everything* that will be needed for reconciliation. It is one of the easiest things that a remorseful DS/WS can do for his/her LS/BS but extremely hard for the unremorseful DS/WS to do.


----------



## morituri

Only one NC letter will suffice. 

Perhaps the word symbolic is too quaint and meaningless a word for you then please consider the word 'litmus' as a better choice. The willingness - or unwillingness - of the DS/WS to write the NC is a litmus test to how much his/her actions match their words. The action of writing the NC and sending it is one of the best ways for determining whether the spouse is serious about R or is just trying to lie to the LS/BS in order to continue contact with the AP.


----------



## morituri

tunahelper716 said:


> I just don't understand why so many men out here are so eager to take back a cheating wife. Seems like a fairly easy solution... Just say NO. You really believe her when she says she is sorry for having sex with the OM?? Sorry with a smile on her face? If that is the only thing that could be wiped off! You will find it very hard to have sex with her again with the visual of the OM staring at you. I've been there.


Not all men and women are the same. For some (like myself), a PA is a deal breaker but for others it is not. Some are able to successfully process the visuals of the WS and the AP having sex and conquer them and some do not. Different strokes for different folks.

What is germane is the question *why does the WS want to remain married to the BS?*. If it is a valid one to the BS - the WS wants to do everything to help the BS to recover and to prove his/her love to him/her and not the AP - then the BS should consider giving R a try. But if is an invalid one to the BS - the WS wants to stay in the marriage because he/she doesn't want be looked upon as the 'bad guy' for having caused the divorce and destroy the children's family as they have known it - then the BS should not consider R.


----------



## iheartlife

whitelamp said:


> How many NC letters actually do what they are intended for? As you stated, intent to uphold must be present. Just as my WS intended to stay with me forever and we had a legal document, the marriage certificate... I understand the symbolism, but in the end, that is all it is... symbolic of our society as whole on how they treat the construct of marriage. Maybe we have evolved past this stage?


whitelamp, may I recommend the book Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass (google books excerpts linked in my signature) to help you get up to speed on certain types of recommendations made for BSs. The book was written by a nationally recognized researcher in infidelity, Shirley Glass, who is unfortunately deceased. Her book is extremely thorough and detailed. While there is some terminology you'll see on the forum that doesn't quite match her book, and (because her book was written some time ago) she doesn't go into a lot of the technical cold war that seems to be going on between BSs and WSs in terms of hiding cheating, it still is one of the most comprehensive books on the subject. It includes, in particular, a great deal of material on the insidious nature of emotional affairs.

I had already read the book when our terrific MC handed it to my husband. There are others (Surviving the Affair by Dr. Harley) that are good but I've found NJF to be the very comprehensive.


----------



## lovelygirl

She had her fun now she wants to get back to where things were before.


----------



## Will_Kane

The No Contact letter is only important if your wife is willing to end the affair.

Your situation has not progressed to the point of sending a no contact letter, however, it is very telling that she refused to send one, and also that she refused to name her lover - both huge red flags that she had no intention of ending the affair.

You made some mistakes in handling your wife's affair. The biggest one was in not demanding to know who the other man is. So *you have to go back to step 1 - find out who the other man is.* Get the details of the affair. Determine if it still is going on. Continue to investigate.

In the meantime, ask your wife to tell you the truth. Tell your wife that you are too tired and worn out to snoop or spy on her and you have no intention of doing so (even though you really are). Tell her you expect her to tell you the truth on her own, or you will divorce her. Tell her to start with the other man's name, address, phone number, email, etc.

Tell your wife that you cannot control her. You can only control yourself and how you react to what she does or doesn't do, what you are willing to accept in your marriage and what you are not willing to accept in your marriage.

*Tell your wife that if she doesn't tell you any detail you ask her for about the affair, you will file for divorce. Then, if she refuses, do it.* Really, if she would choose to keep these secrets over your marriage, what have you lost? Also, divorce is a long process that can be canceled if your wife does agree to your conditions.

Tell her these are your conditions for staying married to her:

1. *The truth*. Polygraph if you need it.

2. *Transparency*. Access to all devices and accounts. No deleting of anything going forward. She let's you know of her whereabouts 24/7. Get rid of facebook or downgrade to a cell phone with very limited features if you determine that's what you need.

3. *No contact letter* to the other man stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior, how terrible she feels for having risked losing her family, marriage, and husband, which mean more than anything in the world to her, that other man is never attempt to contact her again and if he does she will file harassment charges against him. AGAIN, THERE IS NO POINT IN THIS NO CONTACT LETTER IF SHE HASN'T DEMONSTRATED (BY ACTIONS, NOT JUST WORDS) HER DESIRE TO STAY IN THE MARRIAGE. Telling you the truth would be one way to demonstrate this, transparency would be another, doing what you reasonably ask her to do in order for you to heal is another.

4. Any other conditions you need to help you heal from this. There may be additional conditions based on the truth of the affair.

You may not be able to save your marriage no matter what you do. You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. Your wife is playing a game of chicken with you. She is counting on the fact that you are too afraid of breaking up the family to file for divorce.

Also, your wife cheated on you with him for three years. If she could have, she would have left you for him already. There is a reason that she hasn't left you for him. Either he is married, financially unstable, etc. In any event, my bet is that she doesn't want to divorce any more than you do - she is just bolder in being able to risk it, feels comfortable you won't do it, or feels comfortable she can manipulate you out of it.

PREPARE YOURSELF FOR THE WORST: If you tell the story you told here to any normal person, they are going to tell you that your wife probably still is cheating on you.


----------



## Thor

completely_lost said:


> I'm not keeping it quiet for my wife'ss sake, I'm doing for my children. They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent. I think I'm just very numb at this point.


Your children's relationship with their mother is separate from your relationship with your wife. What she did to hurt you was the ultimate betrayal and disloyalty, but it does not rise to that kind of a disloyalty to her children. Yes it was less than superb parenting on her part, but it was not the same level of hurt as she inflicted on you.

You deserve for your kids to have a truthful picture of your integrity. Which is that they should know not to have deep resentments of you. If they do not know the basic facts of the situation, they may place blame on you. The truth will be good for you and for them.

My parents divorced due to an infidelity when I was in my mid 20's.  My sisters and I did lose some respect for our mother, but we also knew that the marriage had been in trouble for a while. In the long run it has been very good for all of us that the basic facts were made known to us at the time.

If you go the divorce route, I think it would be healthy to tell your children of your wife's infidelity, and to reinforce that you want them to have a good relationship with her. The marriage relationship is it's own entity aside from the parent-child relationships.


----------



## tacoma

morituri said:


> It is a symbolic action taken willingly by the DS/WS in order to show his/her LS/BS how serious he/she is about doing *everything* that will be needed for reconciliation. It is one of the easiest things that a remorseful DS/WS can do for his/her LS/BS but extremely hard for the unremorseful DS/WS to do.


It also allows the BS to "know" the WS has indeed actually informed the AP that it`s over.
A lot of gaslighting can be avoided by a NC letter.


----------



## completely_lost

What is gas lighting? Im not familiar with that term.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

It comes from an Ingrid Bergman movie, Gaslight, where the husband tricks his wife into thinking she is mentally ill. He hides objects and then they magically show up where they were supposed to be, the gaslights in their turn of the 20th century home flicker and he tells her she must be going in insane. 

It's a classic step that disloyal spouses take to obfuscate and deflect the truth of the affair.


----------



## tacoma

completely_lost said:


> What is gas lighting? Im not familiar with that term.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory and perception. It may simply be the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, or it could be the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

Gaslighting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## OldWolf57

CL, yes you are still numb, But it seems as if you have just accepted the affair and it continuring. Why else would you go golfing ?? How long was you lurking before posting? If you did any reading before posting, you had an idea of the advice you would receive. You have gotten some great advice, Now the ball is in your court. What do you want to do. One of the Vets I admire for their advice, recently posted on abusing WS's, and I have done that in the past. So I will keep my stuff on point. So to help us let us know how you want to go forward. Now, a point, you say you don't want to hurt mom and kids relationship by exposing, but I say if you have young adults, then treat them like adults. There is no greater lesson that they can learn than, even parents make bad choices. Yes there will be hurt and anger, but life is not an easy task master. We have had ws move out to live with the POS's, leaving kids an all, only to come to their senses an be accepted back. Now I have another ??, can you honestly live with this as it stand ?? If not, plz, act on the advice you have been given. Start with sitting her down and asking for all the info you want about the A. If she is not forthcoming, then pick up the phone and call your oldest, and share what she has done, plus continue to do. and you are D/ing her. If she ask what are you doing before you connect, tell her exactly what you are doing. Man you really need to get your head around this. Pit said it straight. You are playing the HIGHEST STAKED GAME of your life. I can't say what quality of life you will have after this, but good luck CL.


----------



## happyman64

completely_lost said:


> I'm not keeping it quiet for my wife'ss sake, I'm doing for my children. They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent. I think I'm just very numb at this point.


Hey CL,

I can tell your numb.

And by the way, having a 3 year affair, lying to your husband and kids is not good parenting.

You will realize that pretty soon.

And sadly, when you mentioned you were separated 5 years ago, she was probably in the same affair or in another affair. You just took all the blame and she happily let you go on thinking you were the crazy one.

Very sad. I do feel for you. 

When your wife cried after being caught and told you everything (at least enough) do you think she wants you to initiate the D so she does not look like the bad guy to the your kids????

HM64


----------



## completely_lost

The situation 5 years ago had nothing to do with an affair, it was all together different. I went on the golfing weekend because it was work related. As I posted I put a VAR in her car over the weekend, I got it out and as soon as she heads to work in the morning I'll be able to know once and for all if my instinct was right. As I mentioned she has been N C for 3 months and I just don't buy the whole act. If she is still seeing him, she's gone! There will be no more chances, I was at the lawyers office all afternoon, I'm ready this time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Do you know who the OM is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

keko said:


> Do you know who the OM is?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know him personally, he is a former co worker of my wife's .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

What does the VAR reveal? I hope nothing, or something positive about her NOT having an affair.


----------



## keko

completely_lost said:


> I don't know him personally, he is a former co worker of my wife's .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Check if he is married or has a gf.


----------



## cardinals_fan

completely_lost said:


> I just got home from Target, I purchased two VAR's one for her car and one for the house. I'm going golfing for the weekend so I'm thinking this would be the time to gather info. I still love my wife, I just hate what she did to us. We have two young adult children and I do not want them to know what we're going through. It's incredibly embarrassing, how could I have so blind for so long?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im in the same boat. I know exactly what you are feeling and going through.


----------



## completely_lost

I will keep this short, my gut feeling was right. Why does being right hurt so dam much. As I mentioned I put the VAR in her car and I got nothing of any concern over the weekend. I left it in yesterday and tonight when she got home from work I took her car to fill it up for her, well that's the excuse I used so I could listen to the VAR. My worst fears were confirmed, she was talking to the AP for over an hour on the phone. Saying things like she loves him and can't wait to see him. I dropped the car off and told her I had to go into the office, I checked into a hotel room for the night because I'm afraid of what I might say or do if she tried to deny it again. I don't normally drink but I've had a few too many tonight. Tomorrow I'm going to the lawyers first thing and getting the papers for D started. Cheating on me for 3 years is one thing but continueing it for another 3 months, I feel like the worlds biggest F***king jacka**. I will not fight for the marraige, it's over it's done. I will keep you all posted as to what happens after tomorrow. I was thinking of packing up her stuff and drop if off at her AP's house, I'll send her a text message with her change of address. Does anyone know if I can just change the locks of the marital home? Wish me luck.


----------



## keko

completely_lost said:


> I was thinking of packing up her stuff and drop if off at her AP's house, I'll send her a text message with her change of address. Does anyone know if I can just change the locks of the marital home? Wish me luck.


Definately this.

Yes you can change the locks but if she comes back with police you will have to let her in. She'll be in a shock so that's not likely.

Also close any joint accounts you have with her before doing any of the above. All that money will go into sexfest with her OM.

Who was the OM after all?

Sending prayers your way, good luck!


----------



## Chaparral

Really sorry to hear that.

Yes you can change the locks and that is what I would do. Although she can make you change them back. I find it hard to believe someone could live with me if I did not want them to.

Gut feelings win out again.

Good luck and prayers for you

Chap


----------



## iheartlife

It is such a blow. You were hoping against hope to be proven wrong. You gave her a chance after a 3 year affair, and she blew it. This is all on her, every last bit of it.


----------



## Chaparral

Your children are grown. Why do you think she didn't want a divorce in the first place? This is so wrong.


----------



## completely_lost

The OM was a former co worker, of my I guess my STBXW. I was gonna take my name of the joint account after I transfer half of it into a different account. I will give her what's rightfully hers, and if she tries to play hardball I will expose her to anyone and everyone. I know the general rule is to expose the affair but I have decided not to at this point. I think I may be able to use that to my advantage. I just think I should stay as far away from her as possible right now, I'm not a violent man but I'm having some very violent thoughts right now. I can honestly say I feel worse then I did on Dday, any idea why that is? I mean I deep down thought she was lying about the A being over, I guess I was hoping I was wrong.


----------



## keko

Use exposing her affair as a leverage to get you out of alimony and/or a better settlement.

As for the hurt ,ease off the booze right now, start lifting weights and punching sandbags to get your anger out.


----------



## completely_lost

chapparal said:


> Your children are grown. Why do you think she didn't want a divorce in the first place? This is so wrong.


I guess she didn't want the stigma attached to D because of her infidelity, or maybe because she's a cake eater or she likes the lifestyle she has become acustom to. I don't know what the hell she's thinking.


----------



## iheartlife

completely_lost said:


> I guess she didn't want the stigma attached to D because of her infidelity, or maybe because she's a cake eater or she likes the lifestyle she has become acustom to. I don't know what the hell she's thinking.


You know what, if ANY cheater would just file for divorce before they started to "date" none of us would even be here. Trying to find logic behind secret adultery, especially AFTER they are caught, is just a waste of time. She is a broken, damaged person. You could not fix her.


----------



## keko

whitelamp said:


> Don't change the locks, they are expensive


We're not talking about fort knox.


----------



## Acabado

Sorry man. Do what needs to be done.
My vote for the cake eating. The few months of cooling off you noticed surely happened many times before thought the last 3 years. You know the game. I highly doubt she though seriously about divorcing you. Cake eaters won't stop unless they are forced by their BSs. But now she only have the ''cake''. What a shame.


----------



## Complexity

I'm sorry to hear this CL. People who are given a second chance to redeem themselves after something so betraying as a long term affair yet continue to cheat are irredeemable in my opinion.

Please keep us updated.


----------



## keko

and also get tested for STDs right away if you haven't.


----------



## Complexity

whitelamp said:


> I am curious about the guilt cheaters feel. We are all human, obviously some can justify what they do when they do them. Do they think it's ok for them to do it? How about when they are discovered? My EW continued to justify it even then. Maybe we all have different levels of guilt that we can tolerate.


You'd have to be a pretty cold person to carry out a 3 year EA/PA and then come home to your husband like everything is normal. And this despite being found out and given a second chance. I think the guilt is experienced at the preliminary stages of the affair, after that they get accustomed to their secondary life.


----------



## keko

Have An Affair - Affairs and Infidelity Advice , if you want to see the other side.


----------



## Vegemite

whitelamp said:


> I am curious about the guilt cheaters feel. We are all human, obviously some can justify what they do when they do them. Do they think it's ok for them to do it? How about when they are discovered? My EW continued to justify it even then. Maybe we all have different levels of guilt that we can tolerate.


Sense of entitlement. It goes with the serial cheater package. High narcissistic tendancies in most of these cases.


----------



## Vegemite

CL, I'm so sorry for you. But you will be okay. You are going to be at a better place soon enough, without the dishonesty in your life. Good luck to you man.


----------



## Complexity

Don't tell her where you are CL, I think you should just turn your phone off and think about your next plan of action. Have all your cards in place before you drop the D-Bomb, i.e change of locks, packing up her stuff etc


----------



## iheartlife

whitelamp said:


> I am curious about the guilt cheaters feel. We are all human, obviously some can justify what they do when they do them. Do they think it's ok for them to do it? How about when they are discovered? My EW continued to justify it even then. Maybe we all have different levels of guilt that we can tolerate.


Think about the number of lies they have to tell just to keep the fantasy afloat. It's pretty staggering. And they lie to themselves most of all. I think the clinical term is 'compartmentalization'--it's how they avoid going insane while living a dual life for a long time.

But the worst ones (particularly serial cheaters or the ones exhibiting no conscience) are likely true narcissists, or have borderline personality disorder.


----------



## bandit.45

whitelamp said:


> Don't change the locks, they are expensive and she's not worth the expenditure. Instead, move into a guest room, see your lawyer, close joint accounts. Be happy you have direction to go.


ACME, a nationwide company which has locksmiths in every city, will re-key your locks for about $20 per door. So if you have three exterior dors it will cost you less than going out and buying new latchsets. I'm a property manager, I have this done all the time. Its quick and easy.


----------



## aug

completely_lost said:


> The OM was a former co worker, of my I guess my STBXW. I was gonna take my name of the joint account after I transfer half of it into a different account. I will give her what's rightfully hers, and if she tries to play hardball I will expose her to anyone and everyone.




You should take as much as you can. You'll need it. Divorce can be expensive. 

If you took way too much, let her ask for it through your lawyer.


----------



## morituri

This explains why she was reluctant to send the NC letter to the OM in the first place. It was a simple test that she failed big time.


----------



## completely_lost

After not getting not very much sleep I have decided to do what I said last night. I can change the locks myself so it wont cost too much and I'm going to be at the lawyers office as soon as they open. I don't know if it's possible to get divorce papers in one day, but I'm gonna certainly try. I wanna see the look on her face when she gets the papers. I think I'll leave them in her car for when she gets off work then I can observe her reaction. No more mister nice guy, that I promise you.


----------



## completely_lost

morituri said:


> This explains why she was reluctant to send the NC letter to the OM in the first place. It was a simple test that she failed big time.



That appears to be the case, I thought she was refuseing to send it because I didn't know about the NC letter till I came to this site 6 weeks after Dday #1. Thats why I didn't push it too hard, I figured it was something you were suppose to send right away.


----------



## anonymouskitty

Mate, get it by mail or a process runner, best way  the look , that look will be priceless and will be with you as a happy memory amidst total chaos . I'm with you on this one mate


----------



## keko

Good luck with your lawyers.

A camera will be of use to catch that priceless moment. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

Excellent idea!


----------



## Shaggy

From now on carry a var with you whenever you talk with her. 

Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

So she is using a burner phone ?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

Shaggy said:


> From now on carry a var with you whenever you talk with her.
> 
> Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't have qnything to talk to her about, my lawyer can listen to her lies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

Shaggy said:


> So she is using a burner phone ?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

with your disappearance last night has she been trying to call or text you?


----------



## completely_lost

I don't her I had a work emergency and she knows it happens from time to time. She sent me a text just saying good morning and asking if I'd be home for dinner tonight. I haven't responded yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

I think she would of made a great actress, she really had me believing the A was over and that she loved me. Will I ever be able to trust another human being? As of right now I can't see how.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

completely_lost said:


> I think she would of made a great actress, she really had me believing the A was over and that she loved me. Will I ever be able to trust another human being? As of right now I can't see how.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


you will be jaded but you can learn to trust again, just not her


----------



## Eli-Zor

> I will give her what's rightfully hers, and if she tries to play hardball I will expose her to anyone and everyone. I know the general rule is to expose the affair *but I have decided not to at this point*.


You going to ignore this advice however if your not reminded of it when day will comes that she gaslights you and lies to friends and family, you only have yourself to blame. 

Expose the affair to her family, sit with your children and explain what happened. 

Take the OM out. Why would you stand back while she calls on him to get advice and support how to destroy you emotionally and financially. Done correctly you outing the OM will keep him occupied in saving himself. Your reason for taking the OM out is to remove a backup plan for your wife and ensure that their fantasy life together will be seen for what it is - a lie. 

While today you are set on D , tomorrow when the dust clears and she is out of the fog you may have a very different view. She may turn completely round and fight for you even though it is hard for you to see that today with what is happening. 

Far to many BS hide behind the "I will blackmail her, play hardball, not expose because blah blah blah".

Anything you say after D will be seen as vindictive and bitter, revealing the affair today will tell the truth as to why you are doing what you are doing. 

Protect yourself from her future lies and gas lighting.


----------



## morituri

One other thing about exposure is that if she tries to introduce the OM as her new boyfriend, her family and children will know who he is and reject him and her relationship with him. And even if they don't, at least you'll have the personal satisfaction of having helped exposed the fraud she is perpetrating.


----------



## bandit.45

Expose them. Listen to what we are telling you. If this guy has a wife she has aright to know she is being manipulated and lied to. If you dit it for anyone do it for her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anonymouskitty

This is nice guy extreme right here ladies and gentlemen


----------



## morituri

If you have important information at home (paper and digital), retrieve it ASAP to a secure location just in case things turn against you and you can't return to the house.

Please consider conveying the following to her *calmly, quietly and respectfully (shows her your inner strength)* .

"Look <your wife's first name>, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between the OM and me well *I will make the decision for you, you can be with him because I'm no longer an option.* I love you and wish you a good life with him and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."


----------



## completely_lost

bandit.45 said:


> Expose them. Listen to what we are telling you. If this guy has a wife she has aright to know she is being manipulated and lied to. If you dit it for anyone do it for her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OM us single, no wife or gf that I can find. I could care less what her friends or family think. I know and I now have proof. So I finally for the first time in 3 months feel like I have control. I didn't just find out about the affair yesterday, what I found out is it never ended. I feel like a complete idiot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

If you ignore what Eli-Zor just said, you will regret it terribly. The fear causing you not to expose will be dwarfed by the pain and frustration of being railroaded into a corner you can't get out of. 

Your going to get flucked, you REALLY think they don't have a plan?!?. An entire storyline is already drawn up. It's Two vs One and the TWO are HIGHLY motivated and completely without conscience. In thier story you are the bad guy and they are soulmate shmoopies.... 

Clear your head, go back a couple pages....



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Get your flucking head out of your a$$. This is not going to play out anything like your imagining.
> 
> Wake up call.
> 
> Like it or not, you are about to play a very high stakes game, if you don't make the rules you will be playing by hers... You will get eaten alive.


You seem to think divorce is a consequence to her? lol. She doesn't give a fluck, this marraige has been over for a very long time in her eyes. She just wants it her way, bet your a$$ she has a plan to make that happen.


----------



## morituri

You're NOT an idiot! She IS the idiot because once the OM has to deal with her sh!t on a day to day basis - instead of banging her for short periods of time - the affair's days will be numbered. She will see how much her lover truly loves her once he throws her to the curve. She'll find herself with no husband and no lover.


----------



## bryanp

If the roles were reversed do you think she would wish to remain in the marriage like you do?


----------



## completely_lost

bryanp said:


> If the roles were reversed do you think she would wish to remain in the marriage like you do?


I do not wish to remain in the marriage, I'm done.


----------



## warlock07

You need to expose because she will lie to her family who might tell the same to your kids


----------



## Eli-Zor

whitelamp said:


> I agree with everyone about exposure. My question is who do you expose them to? Limited to family and friends? Or do you get real creative and try to bring the OM down at work? My EW worked for him in a busy office. I tried, and I was ignored by the community. Actually I think it hurt me more in terms of my reputation. It appears in today's society, things of this nature does not have an negative impact. The only negative impact was on me.



On her side , parents, siblings, their children and a few of her good friends. On the OM's side all his family including adult children , friends if you can get to them. If the workplace is being used as the affair then the HR Director , other directors and their bosses. 




> Actually I think it hurt me more in terms of my reputation. It appears in today's society, things of this nature does not have an negative impact. *The only negative impact was on me*.


This may appear to be so to you today, I do believe that a significant number of people will have heard you and be silent on the matter. Their silence does not mean they are negative to you. 

Unfortunately there is no golden wand, there is a tested process and those who give you the negative attitude should keep any eye out and hope their spouses or SO's are not going to cheat . I have seen this wheel spin before , its amazing their how attitudes change when its their turn.


----------



## happyman64

CL,

It is good you know. You are not dumb.

The act of false R happens too often. We see it all the time.

The key now is hat you take back control. No matter whether you decide to truly R or D you need to take back that control from your wife.

Please, please listen to Morituri, Pit and Eli Zor!!!

They know what they are talking about and you will be in a much better position no matter what you decide to do.

You can have her served with D papers. But before that you should expose her A and hit the OM where it hurts. Do not let the POSOM be her fallback. Take that away from her.

Let your kids and family know what is going on for over 3 years.

Your WW needs to feel the heat for her deplorable actions and lack of respect to the marriage/family.

You are strong but you need to act smart as well.

HM64


----------



## completely_lost

whitelamp said:


> I agree with everyone about exposure. My question is who do you expose them to? Limited to family and friends? Or do you get real creative and try to bring the OM down at work? My EW worked for him in a busy office. I tried, and I was ignored by the community. Actually I think it hurt me more in terms of my reputation. It appears in today's society, things of this nature does not have an negative impact. The only negative impact was on me.


Thats the issue, she has very little family and her friends are her friends and that will not change. Most people don't care unless it affects them directly, IMO. I truly believe exposure would be best if I wanted to end the affair, however I don't. He can have her, she's garbage to me. The exposure would hurt me I think more then her, so for now I will use it as leverage.


----------



## anonymouskitty

If its a workplace affair I'd send an email with the evidence to the HR manager of the company


----------



## completely_lost

Are any of you thinking I should still try to R? 

would love your opinions


----------



## bandit.45

Download the VAR recording to your computer, save it to a WAV file on a flash drive and then if she denies, send the file out to friends and family via e-mail so they can hear it for themselves. 

In fact, download all the hard evidence you have onto a flash drive and keep it in case things go south and *you* are forced to leave the house.


----------



## completely_lost

anonymouskitty said:


> If its a workplace affair I'd send an email with the evidence to the HR manager of the company


They have not worked together in 2 years. Also unless there is policy in place abou dating in the wor place there's nothing HR can do. Unless I had proof they were doing it at work which I have no proof of.


----------



## Almostrecovered

completely_lost said:


> Are any of you thinking I should still try to R?
> 
> would love your opinions


not me

affair too long
affair continues underground
no remorse


----------



## completely_lost

bandit.45 said:


> Download the VAR recording to your computer, save it to a WAV file on a flash drive and then if she denies, send the file out to friends and family via e-mail so they can hear it for themselves.
> 
> In fact, download all the hard evidence you have onto a flash drive and keep it in case things go south and *you* are forced to leave the house.


Excellent advice Badit.


----------



## completely_lost

Almostrecovered said:


> not me
> 
> affair too long
> affair continues underground
> no remorse


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## Eli-Zor

> Thats the issue, she has very little family and her friends are her friends and that will not change. Most people don't care unless it affects them directly, IMO. I truly believe exposure would be best if I wanted to end the affair, however I don't. He can have her, she's garbage to me. The exposure would hurt me I think more then her, so for now I will use it as leverage.





> They have not worked together in 2 years. Also unless there is policy in place abou dating in the wor place there's nothing HR can do. Unless I had proof they were doing it at work which I have no proof of.


Read this as an outsider who is not in the fear or emotional position of a BS. This is you looking for reasons not to do anything .

You do not have to have hard evidence she is using company equipment to conduct the affair, it is very likely she is or was. What happens is if you use the template letter from the newbie thread her company should investigate, that alone tells her you mean business. 

Outing the OM is a must, the guy trespassed on your marriage , he declared was on you without you even knowing it, the gloves are off when it comes to dealing with him.


----------



## happyman64

:iagree:

Take Bandits email suggestion. Do it before she gets the D papers.

Double whammy then take a picture of her face.

Keep a VAR on you at all times just to protect yourself. 

Also get your assets under lock and key as well as valuables and financial documents so you are in control of the D process.


----------



## Halien

completely_lost said:


> Are any of you thinking I should still try to R?
> 
> would love your opinions


Three years, and the difference between her relationship with him and her relationship with you is the piece of paper that says you are married. Just my opinion. It's too deeply ingrained, so even asking if there is remorse this soon is a waste of time.


----------



## bandit.45

completely_lost said:


> Are any of you thinking I should still try to R?
> 
> would love your opinions


Not just no, HELL NO!

This woman is a cake eater... getting her kicks with another man while she enjoys the benefits of a husband pining for her at home. She has had the best of both worlds. Why should she change? 

She has stolen 3+ years of your life that you will never get back.


----------



## anonymouskitty

Also try and make a porno...send it to the friends and the men at her workplace, that oughta be a treat


----------



## Eli-Zor

Newbie thread, do yourself a favour and read it to the end 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


----------



## completely_lost

Eli-Zor said:


> Read this as an outsider who is not in the fear or emotional position of a BS. This is you looking for reasons not to do anything .
> 
> You do not have to have hard evidence she is using company equipment to conduct the affair, it is very likely she is or was. What happens is if you use the template letter from the newbie thread her company should investigate, that alone tells her you mean business.
> 
> Outing the OM is a must, the guy trespassed on your marriage , he declared was on you without you even knowing it, the gloves are off when it comes to dealing with him.


I have tried for 3 months and I don't have any fight left in me.


----------



## Shaggy

I think going very dark on her for a while would be effective by making her unable to plead with you and lie more 

I do think you should expose it where you can but it's your choice. 

I also think you should send her a message: I win I'm going to be free from the lying and the OM is going to have to put up with living with a liar full time. I almost feel sorry for him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

completely_lost said:


> I don't have qnything to talk to her about, my lawyer can listen to her lies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The point of keeping the VAR on yourself from now on is, quite often when a cheating wife is exposed and/or served with divorce papers they'll go batsh!tcrazy and claim domestic violence on you. Keeping a VAR on yourself will let you loose from these false claims.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

I echo the f*ck no!!! comment on R.

I dont have time to go through the entire line of reasoning for exposing this, there are a truckload of reasons... The one that you need to focus on....

Because it's the right thing to do. Don't be a victim any longer.


----------



## bandit.45

Another benefit of exposure is that it will in turn expose those friends and family who knew about the affair all along. 

Know thine enemies.


----------



## aug

Shaggy said:


> From now on carry a var with you whenever you talk with her.
> 
> Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Carry a VAR on you to protect yourself in case she throws false charges against you, for eg, domestic violence. You dont know if she turn nasty. You just dont know.


Also do not expose how you found out she's still carrying on the affair.

If you can, continue to monitor her car. And also monitor the house now that you're getting divorced. She'll feel more free to talk in the house now. Monitor so you can get ideas of what she may do.


----------



## aug

completely_lost said:


> Thats the issue, she has very little family and her friends are her friends and that will not change. Most people don't care unless it affects them directly, IMO. I truly believe exposure would be best if I wanted to end the affair, however I don't. He can have her, she's garbage to me. The exposure would hurt me I think more then her, so for now I will use it as leverage.



I disagree. Some of her friends, if they have morals, will start looking at her differently. You may not notice it right away, but they will always have it in their heads that she cheated for 3+ years.



Hmmm, maybe some of them already knew but didnt tell you?


----------



## happyman64

aug said:


> Carry a VAR on you to protect yourself in case she throws false charges against you, for eg, domestic violence. You dont know if she turn nasty. You just dont know.
> 
> 
> Also do not expose how you found out she's still carrying on the affair.
> 
> If you can, continue to monitor her car. And also monitor the house now that you're getting divorced. She'll feel more free to talk in the house now. Monitor so you can get ideas of what she may do.


:iagree:

The house and the car. It will come in very handy and tell you what she is really thinking.


----------



## Racer

I too had a false R; Same sort of deal, she’d just gone underground and faked the rest with me. I call it the second breaking. That is when my gut told me to end it. You are on the right path. 

Now, what happened in my story... I had just sort of stopped caring at all. Seriously, a huge weight had lifted and I no longer cared what she did with herself or what the hell she thought of me. She tried all the ‘tricks’ to get me to re-engage back... I just saw them as pathetic or humorous. I laughed at her. And when she got nasty, I had zero problems just going for her throat and ripping apart her self esteem. I just saw her as the awful person she was. 

This is when I started seeing real change. She hit bottom. Got suicidal and so forth. And I just stood back... I wasn’t going to catch her and didn’t care. That drove her deeper and deeper. I don’t know what exactly flipped in her mind, but she became different. Sort of a pleady needy thing doing what she could to try and make it right again. She started coming up with things on her own to help me. She went into IC and started working on herself. And I just stayed there and observed out of morbid curiosity to see what would rise out of the ashes.. That was 18 months ago and I’m still in this marriage. No idea if we’ll make it or not or if my choice was a good one.


----------



## aug

completely_lost said:


> Are any of you thinking I should still try to R?
> 
> would love your opinions




No, dont try. She has already been with him of over 3+ years. He is now a deep part of her. She'll never forget him. Ever!

The way she can act now with you, as though nothing is happening, shows she is very comfortable with having 2 mem in her life. 

She's okay with the other man. He's single. She'll just go and live with him. Easy solutiom for her.


----------



## morituri

Take your wedding band off and mail it to your WW with a short note *"Here. This belongs to another man"*.


----------



## aug

completely_lost said:


> I have tried for 3 months and I don't have any fight left in me.


Well, gird up your loin! (so I have read) 

The fight just started. If you are worn down now, you're are going to be in a world of hurt/regrets later.

Draw on your inner strength. Come here for support should you need it.


----------



## anonymouskitty

or better yet * "THIS BELONGS TO YOUR NEW B*TCHBOY"*


----------



## bandit.45

When you are ready to drop the bomb, have her clothes in garbage bags waiting by the door. Tell her to go stay with the OM. Hit her all at once with everything. Devastate her, full blitz.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SprucHub

completely_lost said:


> I'm not keeping it quiet for my wife'ss sake, I'm doing for my children. They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent. I think I'm just very numb at this point.


I have not gotten through the posts yet, so maybe someone asked this:

What would you feel if one of your children's [future] spouses did this to them? Should the child be embarrassed? Being a good parent means setting a good example and being an honest person, not just pretending to do the right thing when you think people are looking.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

bandit.45 said:


> Download the VAR recording to your computer, save it to a WAV file on a flash drive and then if she denies, send the file out to friends and family via e-mail so they can hear it for themselves.
> 
> In fact, download all the hard evidence you have onto a flash drive and keep it in case things go south and *you* are forced to leave the house.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I have copies of over 200 pages of email and Facebook communications, along with about 100 explicit pictures of my ex. They are on my laptop, external hard drive, copied to a CD, flash drive, and stored on and off site at home and work. I never exposed to anyone but a few friends and family members because she was a walk away wife. If she tries to make me the bad guy, the truth is but an email broadcast away.


----------



## turnera

So I gather you're not going to tell your kids the truth about why you're divorcing her?


----------



## bandit.45

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> I have copies of over 200 pages of email and Facebook communications, along with about 100 explicit pictures of my ex. They are on my laptop, external hard drive, copied to a CD, flash drive, and stored on and off site at home and work. I never exposed to anyone but a few friends and family members because she was a walk away wife. If she tries to make me the bad guy, the truth is but an email broadcast away.


You are my hero.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## one_strange_otter

Have we heard yet what the lawyer said?


----------



## turnera

If you change the locks and she calls the police on you for trying to lock her out of her own house, just say "Huh? I GAVE her a set of keys...I can't help it if she lost them."


----------



## SprucHub

Accumulate all bank and credit card statements. Know how much she has spent on her A. Half of that money is yours. 

I disagree with the tell everyone approach - no one cares - especially not the OM's friends or family or colleagues! So, unless you are trying to R (in which case you are not savable), only tell people if it will help you.

It will help you to tell your children before you file and before she knows that you know. Record these conversations so they cannot be miscategorized later. Tell her parents/family and yours before her too. The reason telling these people will help, is because when there is a he said/she said fight later on, they know the truth. Also, she will likely confirm the truth to them now and cannot tell them something different when she's had time to strategize.

Do not leave your house, but record all interactions. She is about to lie to get everything she wants. Think about it. Her actions are such that she is lying to get what she wants - she acts entitled - she will flip out when told she is going to be denied all that.


----------



## Eli-Zor

> They are very closse to their mother and she is and always has been a excellent parent.


She would have been a better parent if she was not in an affair. 

Do you not realise that when she is/was with your children she was thinking of the OM.

Do you not realise when/if she was having sex with you she was thinking of the OM.

Do you not know on those special family vacations, valentines days, Christmas days that she was sending "I love you's" to the OM and dreaming she was with him. 

You do not understand the first thing about how a WW behaves or thinks, your so deep in the BS fog your making excuses for her. 

She is NOT a good parent, if she was she would not be in a full blown three year long affair and purposefully destroying her childrens family and home. 

What kind of parent goes out of her way that if D occurs she only has 50% of the time with her children. One who is a good parent --please!! see reality for what it is.


----------



## morituri

anonymouskitty said:


> or better yet * "THIS BELONGS TO YOUR NEW B*TCHBOY"*


Nah that would only show that he still gives a sh!t about her. The best way is to show total and complete indifference for her. Revenge is a dish best served cold.


----------



## keko

Why not pawn it?

Or would her keeping it would be a constant trigger for the rest of her life?


----------



## morituri

keko said:


> Why not pawn it?
> 
> Or would her keeping it would be a constant trigger for the rest of her life?


The point of returning the ring to her with the short statement is so that she can see that he is no longer going to be her backup man and that he is putting an end to the sham marriage once and for all. He is saying, "The OM can have you with my blessings, good riddance".


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

I think you should get your intials put on the ring... give it to OM and tell him it's like a chain letter. ask him to intial it before he passes it on to the next guy.


----------



## bandit.45

Take the ring to a gold exchange and get what you can for it. That's all your wife would do. Take the money, buy some nice clothes, and go out and flirt with women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Take the ring. Have it cut in half and send it in an envelope with the note

Here is your 50%. Now please pickup and move to the next victim.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Shaggy said:


> Take the ring. Have it cut in half and send it in an envelope with the note
> 
> Here is your 50%. Now please pickup and move to the next victim.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Again, that shows too much emotion on his part. The least amount of emotion he can show her the better the impact on her.

Stone cold iciness is much more effective.


----------



## aug

morituri said:


> Again, that shows too much emotion on his part. The least amount of emotion he can show her the better the impact on her.
> 
> Stone cold iciness is much more effective.




The least amount of emotion may be to take the ring off, park it, and not say a word about it (even when asked).


----------



## mackerel

Your situation is unfortunate. I have followed these threads, and I'm sure that completely lost won't do a damn thing. I have much sympathy for him, but I have seen this train wreck many times. It has become a victim's place to vent, but are too scared to do anything for whatever their fears possess. Your wife is no good and you should have divorced her a long time ago.


----------



## keko

mackerel said:


> Your situation is unfortunate. I have followed these threads, and I'm sure that completely lost won't do a damn thing. I have much sympathy for him, but I have seen this train wreck many times. It has become a victim's place to vent, but are too scared to do anything for whatever their fears possess. Your wife is no good and you should have divorced her a long time ago.


Although I agree for others one thing I'll disagree is, he was the one that suggested about changing locks and putting her crap in garbage bags. You don't see many if at all a BS asking this question. Hopefully he wont stray from doing them.


----------



## Complexity

The fact CL is still contemplating R means he's going through a plethora of emotions and not thinking rationally. You need to take your time with your actions and make sure you're not acting out of mindless compulsion.


----------



## Betabuster

mackerel said:


> Your situation is unfortunate. I have followed these threads, and I'm sure that completely lost won't do a damn thing. I have much sympathy for him, but I have seen this train wreck many times. It has become a victim's place to vent, but are too scared to do anything for whatever their fears possess. Your wife is no good and you should have divorced her a long time ago.


:iagree: 

But unfortunately for completely_lost no amount of logic and reasoning is going to get through to him unless he decides to stand firm. Although this is not the cause of infidelity being what people call a "pleaser" is definitely not setting a good precedent in the relationship and the wife starts losing respect, loss of respect leads to a loss of attraction

And therein lies the core of why infidelity occurs, people may dress it up in anyway they want to with bullcrap like "needs" but the real reason is loss of attraction, you surely do agree with the fact that if your wife was completely into you, she wouldn't cheat


----------



## morituri

aug said:


> The least amount of emotion may be to take the ring off, park it, and not say a word about it (even when asked).


:iagree:


----------



## iheartlife

Betabuster said:


> And therein lies the core of why infidelity occurs, people may dress it up in anyway they want to with bullcrap like "needs" but the real reason is loss of attraction, you surely do agree with the fact that if your wife was completely into you, she wouldn't cheat


At this point it's not about his wife being "into" him, or not as the case CLEARLY is. 

He knows that better than you ever will. The core issue in this thread is that she lied and said it was over. He didn't fully buy that, but he didn't know how to prove it one way or another.

So he wanted final proof she was a liar before divorcing her. That's a pretty standard reaction for a loyal person who swore life-long faithfulness. I'm not going to beat him up for hoping the truth was different. He had the cojones to verify--there's a ridiculous number of BSs who can't even manage that (like oh, say, ME back in the day).


----------



## happyman64

iheartlife said:


> He had the cojones to verify--there's a ridiculous number of BSs who can't even manage that (like oh, say, ME back in the day).


That is it in a nutshell iheartlife.

But worst than having a 3 year affair and worst than saying she loves her husband and wants to reconcile is the fact that these past 3 months she has been lying to her battered spouse everyday and he heard it on the VAR her telling the OM that she loves him and can't wait to be with him.

That is F'ing devastating. And it just sucks lemons for a longtime.

He used his cajones and deserves some compassion. The truth can really hurt sometimes. We all have all been there. And the level of selfishness his wife has shown proves that people can be possessed by the devil when they play with loyal, loving partners like this.......:FIREdevil:

Hm64


----------



## Betabuster

I'm not making light of his situation. And I also don't claim to understand what he's feeling right now. But as he stated, doesn't the fact that she's not opened up about the affair show that she doesn't have an ounce of remorse for her actions, even if he wanted to go to counselling at this point it'd be like entering the MC's office with three people him,wife and the other man.

I understand that when you're betrayed you look for a sense of closure about why a person betrayed you, but the thing is he's just exposing himself to more heart break as the days go by, digging for the truth and maybe not finding it.

And while he's doing this his wife is still stuck in her fantasy world.How about him actually going through with the divorce, maybe she'll snap out of the haze and admit everything(and by this i mean showing him all the records and emails ), they can start the process of reconciliation in earnest, if she's still in her fantasy world this is pretty good an indicator that she's really not remorseful for the hurt she's caused him


----------



## iheartlife

Betabuster said:


> I'm not making light of his situation. And I also don't claim to understand what he's feeling right now. But as he stated, doesn't the fact that she's not opened up about the affair show that she doesn't have an ounce of remorse for her actions, even if he wanted to go to counselling at this point it'd be like entering the MC's office with three people him,wife and the other man.
> 
> I understand that when you're betrayed you look for a sense of closure about why a person betrayed you, but the thing is he's just exposing himself to more heart break as the days go by, digging for the truth and maybe not finding it.
> 
> And while he's doing this his wife is still stuck in her fantasy world.How about him actually going through with the divorce, maybe she'll snap out of the haze and admit everything(and by this i mean showing him all the records and emails ), they can start the process of reconciliation in earnest, if she's still in her fantasy world this is pretty good an indicator that she's really not remorseful for the hurt she's caused him


I hear what you're saying--you aren't going to believe he'll go through with the divorce until he actually does it. And maybe before I came to CWI I had a little bit of pollyanna left to believe that of COURSE he'd divorce. But some people (maybe not the OP) will stick with their abuser and apparently this is a gender-neutral choice despite the stereotypes. So only time will tell whether you will be proven right about this.

The fact that she wouldn't open up was the jumping off position for his seeking advice. I know that a VAR seems obvious now, but it isn't the first thing that springs to mind to people who actually make a POINT of not lying to human beings they love deeply.


----------



## Betabuster

Why set yourself for more flak when you can actually make concrete decisions into ending the marriage, its already bad that she cheated on him but hearing for himself that she loves the other man is just too painful i imagine.

The reason why he can't be decisive right now is his emotional state being fragile which is understandable and extremely sad.

But only he can stop thinking with his emotional brain and start thinking logically in order to protect himself


----------



## iheartlife

we cross-posted


----------



## Betabuster

This is sad this is really sad. Ah but I'd recommend reading No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover. This will help you man, maybe not for this relationship but for the future...its a pretty good investment i'd say.

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Just ask yourself one thing man.....what is she doing for this relationship to recover? what is she giving back to you? 

Don't delay the divorce man


----------



## Zanna

I am so sorry for your pain. Infidelity is not for the faint of heart.

It is hard to make rational decisions while enduring trauma and the destruction of your life and my heart goes out to you.

It is hard to see now (I have been there) but you will be happy again someday. I truly believe that the BS, who wants to R and who has been faithful, is often willing to put more into a M than the WS who chooses to run away from their problems and hurt those around them. In the end, sanity, compassion, dedication and strong values and morals will prevail and you will be happier in the long term. Your W on the other hand is heading for disaster.

While I agree with the other posters that in that you should expose the A, I understand your hesitancy. However, I urge you to tell your children at the very least. They have the right to know what their family's legacy is....Perhaps it will help them not make similar mistakes in their marriages. I don't think hiding the truth benefits anyone aside from your cheating W and she's already reaped enough benefits in all of this. I don't believe she should be protected from the consequences of her cruel and selfish actions.

Again, I am so very sorry for what you're are dealing with... ((()))


----------



## Betabuster

I agree with zanna , expose the affair but don't bring the children into it unless they're majors. Children suffer from major trauma this especially because it involves unfaithfulness on their mother's part.
That's something they hardly ever recover from.

Tell the in laws ,the OM's wife and her friends and yours if they don't know about it already but whatever you do don't involve the kids. She might be selfish don't stoop down to her level just to get back at her

File for divorce, don't let your indecisiveness ruin your future friend


----------



## Chaparral

I don't think OP can expose. He has lost himself and is now just along for the ride. He has let the OM and his wife take over his life and family. That makes it all the more sad. He is just whipped.

Prayers and good luck.


----------



## turnera

I disagree. He's not whipped, he's disgusted and wants nothing to do with his wife because she lied about stopping the affair. He has gone to his lawyer. He's holding the expose card to his chest in case she tries to take him to the cleaners during the divorce.


----------



## Almostrecovered

reasons for exposure-


1) to help destroy an affair to get a WS out of the fog

moot reason here as he is proceeding towards divorce

2) to inform the AP's SO as they deserve to know

moot reason here as AP is single


3) to protect the WS from spreading lies about why the relationship ended 

moot reason here, OP has no care about what friends and family think 

4) to present consequence to immoral actions

WS is already getting the consequence of D, but if there's a reason for OP to expose then this is it

5) revenge

a bad reason, revenge is better served by showing his WS he will be fine and dandy without her, indifference is a much better reaction and more effective





thus I won't harp on OP to expose nor will I think he is acting scared


----------



## SprucHub

:iagree:


Almostrecovered said:


> reasons for exposure-
> 
> 
> 1) to help destroy an affair to get a WS out of the fog
> 
> moot reason here as he is proceeding towards divorce
> 
> 2) to inform the AP's SO as they deserve to know
> 
> moot reason here as AP is single
> 
> 
> 3) to protect the WS from spreading lies about why the relationship ended
> 
> moot reason here, OP has no care about what friends and family think
> 
> 4) to present consequence to immoral actions
> 
> WS is already getting the consequence of D, but if there's a reason for OP to expose then this is it
> 
> 5) revenge
> 
> a bad reason, revenge is better served by showing his WS he will be fine and dandy without her, indifference is a much better reaction and more effective
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thus I won't harp on OP to expose nor will I think he is acting scared


:iagree: Finally, someone not hell bent on exposure. How about composure before exposure. Running around, especially to people who don't care or you do not know, yelling my spouse is sleeping with this person, is not always the best answer. Telling people who need to know or should know - based on a calm reflection - is sufficient.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I'm all for exposure in many, many cases, but if there is nothing accomplished by doing it then what's the point?


----------



## Complexity

any update CL?


----------



## lordmayhem

completely_lost said:


> I will keep this short, my gut feeling was right. Why does being right hurt so dam much. As I mentioned I put the VAR in her car and I got nothing of any concern over the weekend. I left it in yesterday and tonight when she got home from work I took her car to fill it up for her, well that's the excuse I used so I could listen to the VAR. My worst fears were confirmed, she was talking to the AP for over an hour on the phone. Saying things like she loves him and can't wait to see him. I dropped the car off and told her I had to go into the office, I checked into a hotel room for the night because I'm afraid of what I might say or do if she tried to deny it again. I don't normally drink but I've had a few too many tonight. Tomorrow I'm going to the lawyers first thing and getting the papers for D started. Cheating on me for 3 years is one thing but continueing it for another 3 months, I feel like the worlds biggest F***king jacka**. I will not fight for the marraige, it's over it's done. I will keep you all posted as to what happens after tomorrow. I was thinking of packing up her stuff and drop if off at her AP's house, I'll send her a text message with her change of address. Does anyone know if I can just change the locks of the marital home? Wish me luck.


Haven't checked this thread in a couple of days and a lot has happened. Unfortunately, score yet another one for a VAR exposing another cheater in False R. 

Like others have said, keep a VAR on yourself for protection. Give her warning that if she even thinks about lying to the police about you, you will file charges against her for false reporting. Not enough people do this. 

Expose the A to who you feel needs to know. We all said that an Long Term Affair (LTA) like this, its hard to simply go NC. Now you know why she refused to write a NC letter, because the A wasn't over. She just took it underground, and is now using a secret affair phone.


----------



## morituri

C_L I know it is a dark time for you - believe me WE KNOW. It is one the most gut wrenching experiences a human being can go through but you are NOT alone and when all is said in done, YOU WILL MAKE IT!


----------



## I R Baboon

It'll help you recover I promise you. Consider it a mini-revenge. The best revenge would be to dump the sneaky tart(I did it) but thats your call.:smthumbup:

Hang in there for the team mate


----------



## turnera

He IS dumping her.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> He IS dumping her.


Hmmn, I wonder. A woman's tear filled face is a very powerful weapon that CAN melt the most hardened of male hearts.


----------



## turnera

Well, we can only go off of what he last said, can't we? Speculating and dragging him through mud without him even being here is not exactly conducive to him returning for more help.


----------



## morituri

Of course not but the heart can certainly betray us all.


----------



## Complexity

morituri said:


> Hmmn, I wonder. A woman's tear filled face is a very powerful weapon that CAN melt the most hardened of male hearts.


:iagree:


----------



## cantthinkstraight

Racer said:


> I too had a false R; Same sort of deal, she’d just gone underground and faked the rest with me. I call it the second breaking. That is when my gut told me to end it. You are on the right path.
> 
> Now, what happened in my story... I had just sort of stopped caring at all. Seriously, a huge weight had lifted and I no longer cared what she did with herself or what the hell she thought of me. She tried all the ‘tricks’ to get me to re-engage back... I just saw them as pathetic or humorous. I laughed at her. And when she got nasty, I had zero problems just going for her throat and ripping apart her self esteem. I just saw her as the awful person she was.
> 
> This is when I started seeing real change. She hit bottom. Got suicidal and so forth. And I just stood back... I wasn’t going to catch her and didn’t care. That drove her deeper and deeper. I don’t know what exactly flipped in her mind, but she became different. Sort of a pleady needy thing doing what she could to try and make it right again. She started coming up with things on her own to help me. She went into IC and started working on herself. And I just stayed there and observed out of morbid curiosity to see what would rise out of the ashes.. That was 18 months ago and I’m still in this marriage. No idea if we’ll make it or not or if my choice was a good one.


Racer, I feel like I'm reading my own feelings about my situation when you speak.

Thanks for sharing your insight.


----------



## lordmayhem

morituri said:


> Hmmn, I wonder. A woman's tear filled face is a very powerful weapon that CAN melt the most hardened of male hearts.


I seem to recall HurtinginTN saying this many times. Hell, all it took for him was his WW making lasagna.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Whatever happened to him?


----------



## keko

He updated his thread in divorce section.


----------



## one_strange_otter

Link?


----------



## tacoma

lordmayhem said:


> I seem to recall HurtinginTN saying this many times. Hell, all it took for him was his WW making lasagna.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A big fat pan of lasagna is a power to be reckoned with.

Far more influential on me than a crying female.


----------



## keko

one_strange_otter said:


> Link?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/29330-day-1-separation-29.html


----------



## bandit.45

tacoma said:


> A big fat pan of lasagna is a power to be reckoned with.
> 
> Far more influential on me than a crying female.


Garfield.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

Wow, thanks for telling me. I really hate that you have to keep trolling through threads all the time to find new threads people start. What an eye opener. I don't know how to feel about all that.


----------



## one_strange_otter

keko said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-through-divorce-separation/29330-day-1-separation-29.html


I misunderstood. I thought completely_lost updated a thread in Divorce section. Didn't realize you were talking about someone else.


----------



## keko

How are you doing completely_lost?


----------



## completely_lost

Believe it or not I haven't confronted her yet, my lawyer has suggested I get more evidence because a one sided conversation isn't really enough. I have an appointment with a P I on Tuesday. The VAR is still hidden in her car and I plan on putting one in her office at work as soon as I can get there and her not know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

Another reason for my non confronting is we have had a family emergency and that's why I haven't been updating on here. I have read all your comments and there is some great advise so thank for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## keko

Would adultery make enough of a difference in divorce for you to wait?


----------



## completely_lost

I don't think so but the more ammo I have the more leverage I have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Normally evidence of an affair is not of any consequence in a non-fault divorce State. If your divorce attorney recommended that you get more evidence then I take it that you live in a fault divorce State?


----------



## bandit.45

Just play smart brother. Guard your heart. If that lawyer is not a slathering pitbull, then fire him and get another one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

No I think it's just a way of playing hardball.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Whatks wrong with hardball? She didn't give you that consideration when she was banging another guy for three years!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

He's pretty nasty, his first wife cheated on him so he has no use for people like me STBXW
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

completely_lost said:


> He's pretty nasty, his first wife cheated on him so he has no use for people like me STBXW
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good. Go for the jugular.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## completely_lost

I don't want messy, I just want quick and fair
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

completely_lost said:


> I don't want messy, I just want quick and fair
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does your wife want quick and fair?

Make sure you are playing the same game as your wife.

No good turning up in cricket whites if your wife is dressed as a linebacker. 

Not sure about that analogy. Could you picture your wife dressed as a linebacker? It's just that being a foreigner, I'm not entirely certain of the correct terminology for what people wear on a baseball court.  :smthumbup:


----------



## morituri

c_l, I can sympathize with you wanting a quick and fair divorce but you have to be ready. Once she gets served with divorce papers, she may turn nasty, ugly and vindictive. Consult with your attorney on how to legally return the misery IF she wants to destroy you financially.


----------



## turnera

I suggest that, if your wife IS cheating, she no longer deserves fair. She GAVE UP FAIR when she decided to cheat, lie, sneak, and steal from your family to feed her affair. For every encounter with her lover, she lost X% of her 'fair' division of assets.


----------



## Shaggy

completely_lost said:


> I don't want messy, I just want quick and fair
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't want to be negative, but honestly this isn't going to happen. You're wife feels entitled to cheat and in her mind she is in the right. So when you go to divorce she is going to see you in the wrong and needing to be punished. So chances are she will go for the jugular.


----------



## bandit.45

I don't understand BSs who want to play a defensive game during divorce. I just don't get it. You have to take the fight to the enemy or you will get creamed in court.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

completely_lost said:


> I don't want messy, I just want quick and fair


 You now know for a fact that she is a selfish lying cheater that has proven that she does not care about being fair to you. If your starting point is fair, and hers is to secretly get as much as she can for herself, you well end up at an unfair point in between that favors her big time. She has already played you for the fool. Do not let her do it to you again. Fool you once shame on her. Fool you twice, shame on you.


----------



## keko

Before confronting make sure to empty the bank accounts into your personal so she'll have a hardtime affording a good lawyer or any for that matter. But dont spend it as you'll likely be ordered to give back half of it. Anything that can be pawned at your home should also be hidden offsite.


----------



## Chaparral

turnera said:


> I suggest that, if your wife IS cheating, she no longer deserves fair. She GAVE UP FAIR when she decided to cheat, lie, sneak, and steal from your family to feed her affair. For every encounter with her lover, she lost X% of her 'fair' division of assets.


I beleive in fair. Fair would be Changing the locks, put a few of her clothes in a bag, giving the rest of her stuff, computer, phones, to goodwill, and dropping her off at the Pile of sh!t Other mans house with a fresh hundred dollar bill.


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> I don't understand BSs who want to play a defensive game during divorce. I just don't get it. You have to take the fight to the enemy or you will get creamed in court.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My uncle literally gave away the farm. She took the next guys farm too.


----------



## Chaparral

So you had to go back home and pretend everything is ok. That truly sucks.


----------



## Count of Monte Cristo

turnera said:


> I suggest that, if your wife IS cheating, she no longer deserves fair. She GAVE UP FAIR when she decided to cheat, lie, sneak, and steal from your family to feed her affair. For every encounter with her lover, she lost X% of her 'fair' division of assets.


Tunera, in an ideal world this would be the case. Alas, thanks to no-fault divorce she'll most likely get more than she's entitled to. Even in fault states like Texas, you have to wait a year to get on the court's docket and then pay added attorney's fee. For me, it was worth settling just to be done with her.


----------



## turnera

I understand, count, but I was talking about his attitude, not the actual motions made. His attitude is that she's the woman he loves and therefore, he can't hurt her. Most likely that attitude is WHY she cheated.


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> I understand, count, but I was talking about his attitude, not the actual motions made. His attitude is that she's the woman he loves and therefore, he can't hurt her. Most likely that attitude is WHY she cheated.


He needs to change that attitude quick or he _will_ get hosed in court.


----------



## completely_lost

chapparal said:


> So you had to go back home and pretend everything is ok. That truly sucks.


Yes, however I've been working alot and nnot seeing her as much. I drive by the OM's house at least twice a day to see if she's there, so far I haven't seen her car in the driveway. But that means nothing, he could be picking her up from work for all I know. It's very hard beingin the same room as her.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> His attitude is that she's the woman he loves and therefore, he can't hurt her. Most likely that attitude is WHY she cheated.


I think you're right. He probably has placed her on a pedestal for years and thus she looks down on him as though he was an insect and unworthy of her. She's a spoiled princess.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

whitelamp said:


> No matter how hard you try, you can not monitor another person 24/7 with out a security bracelet, and even then, they can meet someplace that flies under your radar, like in your own home.


Need a facebook posting shock collar, iphone texting siren, and burner phone detection alarm for the win !!


----------



## lordmayhem

whitelamp said:


> What I've found from personal experience is that if two people want to see each other, they will. No matter how hard you try, you can not monitor another person 24/7 with out a security bracelet, and even then, they can meet someplace that flies under your radar, like in your own home.


This is true. However, there's no need to make it easier for them. Make them spend the effort to keep it underground because sooner or later they slip up.


----------



## bandit.45

So when is she getting served?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

> What I've found from personal experience is that if two people want to see each other, they will. No matter how hard you try, you can not monitor another person 24/7 with out a security bracelet, and even then, they can meet someplace that flies under your radar, like in your own home.


Well, verification, from where I sit, isn't about keeping affair partners apart. It might have some of that effect, but that isn't the point. The U.S. is a free country. So two people want to be together--monitoring them doesn't prevent this. (And just to be clear, right now the OP isn't doing anything to directly intervene in the affair until he can file for D.)

When the love of your life tells you to your face, I want to reconcile--and I'll gladly attend MC, just like the OP's spouse--well, in the normal world, outside of Affair World, you would take that entirely at face value. Some would have gone straight to D. But can you understand someone who wouldn't? It would hurt so much that they had betrayed you, but if you love your spouse so much, you might find yourself welcoming the opportunity to enter counseling.

This thread is a textbook case for verification. His wife didn't seem to be "into" reconciling. Some people might be strong enough to divorce over that. But most people aren't when they have children and many years invested. What verification does in these cases, and it did in this one, is to level the playing field against an inveterate liar. She was a coward. She was NEVER going to ask for a divorce from the OP. Or if she was, it was on her own very leisurely timetable. When you look up "cake eater" in the dictionary, there's her picture front and center.

wrsteele1's case is almost the same (except the time frame was much shorter, which might affect that outcome). Wife "ends" it with the AP, goes to MC, tries to work on the marriage, but heart isn't in it. But is _never_ going to ask for a divorce--she wants ALL of that blame to fall on the loyal spouse for breaking up the home and hurting the children. They also have other needs met, particularly a home and financial security. Cheaters are profoundly selfish that way--but they know they have to hide it. To the bitter end, they are going to blame YOU to everyone they meet for ending the marriage. Some people are strong enough not to care--but many people aren't and who are we to judge them for that!

Of course, some would argue that you just D right away upon discovery of an affair. Maybe that's the OP's situation--or maybe his wife just deserves the best actress Oscar at this year's WS awards. Once again, he had the nerve to find out the truth, when far too many BSs are terrified to try to do that.


----------



## bandit.45

Bump....

Update?


----------



## completely_lost

whitelamp said:


> What I've found from personal experience is that if two people want to see each other, they will. No matter how hard you try, you can not monitor another person 24/7 with out a security bracelet, and even then, they can meet someplace that flies under your radar, like in your own home.


it's so true where's there's a will there's way.


----------



## turnera

Did something happen?


----------



## iheartlife

Any updates?


----------



## Catherine602

I think you are handling this perfectly. 

She underestimated you big time. Sorry this has happened but it is gratifying to see you act with self respect and resolve. .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

They're reconciling, he mentioned it in another thread. 

Best of luck of to you CL, hope you made the right decision.


----------



## keko

Bummer. I guess we'll see him in another 3 years.


----------



## iheartlife

Complexity, this must be what you're referring to? This was posted June 19, so about a week ago.




completely_lost said:


> I haven't gotten to that yet we are try to R, however if you feel you are unable to trust your WS no matter how transparent they are maybe a temporary seperation would help. If you find your obsessed with the past and not mentally moving forward then maybe healing would be easier if you weren't always feeling betrayed. You should be talking to an expert. Your mental health is just as important as your physical health. Hope this helps a bit.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...m-have-divorced-ws-who-seemed-remorseful.html


come on completely, you can't leave us in the dark here! Last we heard you had put a VAR under her car and blown up the fact that she "loved" her AP despite claiming to you that she wanted to reconcile and was in no contact. You were driving by the OM's house and seeing her car there!!!! And then you were going to have her served--did that ever happen?


----------



## turnera

Complexity said:


> They're reconciling, he mentioned it in another thread.
> 
> Best of luck of to you CL, hope you made the right decision.


 Arg! Why do people keep starting new threads? Some of us don't have the time to keep reading all the new threads that are opened!


----------



## spudster

turnera said:


> Arg! Why do people keep starting new threads? Some of us don't have the time to keep reading all the new threads that are opened!


His WW boo-hooed and he folded like a cheap tent. That's why he never finished this thread. He's ashamed of himself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

spudster said:


> His WW boo-hooed and he folded like a cheap tent. That's why he never finished this thread. He's ashamed of himself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Why he should be ashamed of his choice, its his life , if he feels that his WW is the best for his happiness then let it be. who we are to say against his wish, but if he needs happiness and faithful wife he have to bring his pairs back into the sack where it belongs, in future.


----------



## iheartlife

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Why he should be ashamed of his choice, its his life , if he feels that his WW is the best for his happiness then let it be. who we are to say against his wish, but if he needs happiness and faithful wife he have to bring his pairs back into the sack where it belongs, in future.


I am super pro-R. I am reconciled with a husband who found his "soulmate" and "love of his life" (well, after a looooong second thought, guess he already found her and that was me).

I think you can come back from the worst. Not every time, obviously, but sometimes.

The issue is distinguishing THAT from a cake-eater, because cake-eaters have such a huge vested self-interest in maintaining the status quo. And I'm not saying I've found the magic solution to that, nor has anyone on the board who is in fulltime R, but there are things that can be done.


----------



## Bottled Up

iheartlife said:


> I am super pro-R. I am reconciled with a husband who found his "soulmate" and "love of his life" (well, after a looooong second thought, guess he already found her and that was me).
> 
> I think you can come back from the worst. Not every time, obviously, but sometimes.
> 
> The issue is distinguishing THAT from a cake-eater, because cake-eaters have such a huge vested self-interest in maintaining the status quo. And I'm not saying I've found the magic solution to that, nor has anyone on the board who is in fulltime R, but there are things that can be done.


Isn't every cheater technically a cake-eater, since cheating is cake-eating?


----------



## iheartlife

Bottled Up said:


> Isn't every cheater technically a cake-eater, since cheating is cake-eating?


I guess what I really mean is a sincerely remorseful spouse vs. a not remorseful one who only _appears_ remorseful so that they can continue cake-eating after being discovered. Various threads come to mind.

What makes that definition complicated is that sometimes it takes 2 or 3 waves of discoveries before true remorse emerges and true R starts.

Definitely an art and not a science


----------



## Acabado

WW is a cake eater because OP busted the total false R- underground, feeding both OP and OM with the same S!it.
WHen he came here WW claimed NC for a few months already, meaning the affair had ended but he sensed the detachement, the lack of effor rather than withdrawal you'd expect after a full blowew 3 yrs LTA, he felt the ''fake remorse'', which indeed had an explanation, she never intented to stop, WW is a cake eater.


----------



## morituri

Bottled Up said:


> Isn't every cheater technically a cake-eater, since cheating is cake-eating?


No. Only the ones who do not want to end their marriage but continue in their affair, are true cake eaters. To the unremorseful cheater who doesn't care, the affair is simply a way to exit the marriage by making it impossible for the betrayed to even consider reconciliation (something which usually causes the opposite).


----------



## Chaparral

Shagy ahs been banned ? OMG Anyone know why? What about bandit.45?


----------



## keko

chapparal said:


> Shagy ahs been banned ? OMG Anyone know why? What about bandit.45?


Don't know about Shaggy but bandit was due to a name calling in synthetic's thread.


----------



## iheartlife

just noticed Pit also banned


----------



## keko

iheartlife said:


> just noticed Pit also banned


Yep he mentioned in blueskies thread that she was lying and he was putting her on ignore list, then BAM he's banned too.


----------



## OldWolf57

all my heros !!! damn.


----------



## Chaparral

OldWolf57 said:


> all my heros !!! damn.


Anyone know what happened to shaggy?


----------



## iheartlife

chapparal said:


> Anyone know what happened to shaggy?


I saw bandit45 is back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Yeah I'm here...

So what the heck happened to OP? I thought he was ready to lower the boom on that lowdown, cheating, good-for-nothing, sorry excuse of a wife of his? Did she chain him to the radiator? Is he tied up in a basement?


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah I'm here...
> 
> So what the heck happened to OP? I thought he was ready to lower the boom on that lowdown, cheating, good-for-nothing, sorry excuse of a wife of his? Did she chain him to the radiator? Is he tied up in a basement?


No, but if he feels his heart is chained up, well, love can make people do daft things.


----------

