# Feeling Sex-Starved (update toward end of thread)



## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

I have a long story that I will try to condense as much as possible. My husband and I were both virgins going into marriage by choice because of our faith. As such, I was very ready for a healthy and robust sex life once we got married. The emotional pain started on the honeymoon when he just didn't seem all that interested. He has since said that he "was in [his] head" but has never really communicated what went on then. The lack of communication from back then has created some scarring for me. I tried talking to him about it back then and wanted to go to counseling. We never went for a number of reasons, and I spent many hopeless nights in tears wondering if I was the only woman in the world whose husband didn't want sex with her. This was nearly 20 years ago.

Then, I made a bad decision (not the worse one mind you, but a bad one to try to fill the emotional hole). I decided to try and take my mind off it and instead pursue having kids. After my first child was born, I was in a lot of pain physically and was EXHAUSTED. Suddenly he had a sex drive now that I just physically couldn't. I got pregnant again when my youngest was barely 9 months old. I was more exhausted. I didn't want sex. He wasn't helping around the house or with the kids like I needed, and sex was the very last thing on my mind. I was resentlful that he was meeting none of my needs but wanted this one of his met. I figured if it was that important, couldn't he give me the slightest bit of relief with chores, etc.? Our marriage went through some tough times (not just because of the sex - I was resentful feeling like the household slave). We survived it. Made it to the other side. Health problems also followed having children for me which made sex even less of a priority in my mind. Despite all of that, I still tried to be available for him as much as I could. In some ways it was a mistake because I think I quite literally developed an aversion to sex. If he so much as gave me a hug, I would feel disgusted thinking that sexual pursual was sure to follow.

Because I love my husband and wanted to please him, I worked really, really hard to overcome that. We read His Needs Her Needs, and there is a small little section about sexual aversion. I followed the advice. Between that and throwing in some alcohol now and then, I got past it after lots of work on my part. I began to enjoy sex with my husband because I wanted him to know that I love him. Again, our marriage went through some tough times, but we made it through. Sex was great for a while.

Now, it's been a year of me hurting and in tears many nights because I don't feel loved any longer. He shows me love in other ways, but it's not what I need in order to feel love right now. He helps around the house a little now and is kind and compassionate when I go to him with my struggles. But, I still feel so hurt. I FEEL unloved because I feel a lack of intimacy. I don't know what to do. We have sex maybe once a week. I know so many would be happy with that, but when we go over a week, I start to feel anxious and hurt, and it generally means a sleepless night in tears for me. I've talked to him several times, and he's generally been understanding, but it hasn't changed much. I realize that his pursuing me, even when I didn't think I wanted sex, is what showed me he loved me. Now, I just don't feel loved because the intimacy isn't there.

To address this upfront, I don't think there is any infidelity happening. With COVID, he's been home a lot. I truly don't know how he would be carrying on another relationship, and I don't believe he would intentionally choose to step outside of our marriage. I also actually asked him if there were female friendships or anything that would be getting in the way. He was compassionate and assured me there weren't. He does have female friends at work, but he has assured me that there are no romantic inclinations there, and I have no reason to not believe him. He told me he was stressed at work, and I know that was true. But this has been well over a year now that I've been feeling this way. Also, I know there have been times he has desired that I lose some weight, but it never stopped the sex before. And now, I'm at the best weight I've been at since the early days of our marriage, so I really don't think that's an issue.

I'll be honest. I don't initiate much and never have. Because I felt so unloved in those first years of marriage when I was expecting sex and he didn't seem interested, it has left some emotional scars, and initiating terrifies me. Being a woman in this situation makes you feel like a complete failure by our culture's standards. I've still tried, but I'm so very scared of rejection. Also, it may be my imagination, but I often can't tell anymore when we do have sex if he has had an orgasm. Sometimes he does. Other times, I can't tell. He almost always brings me to orgasm first and has always been giving in the bedroom when we do have sex. It's the frequency that I'm frustrated with. I'm trying to be as generous as possible toward him, too, but I'm still not sure if he's that excited. It almost seems like he's having sex just because he knows I need it. I don't know what changed that he does not have much drive anymore. I just don't know what to do. Pressuring him isn't likely to help or increase his sex drive. But I've cried so many tears that I'm almost beginning to feel numb from it. It's hard to try to prime his desire when I'm hurting so badly. We've talked about it enough that I don't want to keep on him about it as I don't think that's likely to make anything better. I just don't know what to do...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Considering that he was eventually initiating a lot at some point have you talked with him about getting his testosterone levels checked?


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Considering that he was eventually initiating a lot at some point have you talked with him about getting his testosterone levels checked?


I haven't. I probably should have also mentioned that he is a very private person. Even with me. He doesn't love having any of these conversations. I think he has a doctor appointment well-check coming up for the first time in many years. Any ideas on how to broach the topic with him in a sensitive manner? Every time I bring this stuff up with him, it makes me feel like the broken person. But, maybe it's worth trying to talk to him about.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Also, I should mention we are in our early 40's. Is a drop in testosterone likely this early?


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## Helping Hand (Sep 8, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I have a long story that I will try to condense as much as possible. My husband and I were both virgins going into marriage by choice because of our faith. As such, I was very ready for a healthy and robust sex life once we got married. The emotional pain started on the honeymoon when he just didn't seem all that interested. He has since said that he "was in [his] head" but has never really communicated what went on then. The lack of communication from back then has created some scarring for me. I tried talking to him about it back then and wanted to go to counseling. We never went for a number of reasons, and I spent many hopeless nights in tears wondering if I was the only woman in the world whose husband didn't want sex with her. This was nearly 20 years ago.
> 
> Then, I made a bad decision (not the worse one mind you, but a bad one to try to fill the emotional hole). I decided to try and take my mind off it and instead pursue having kids. After my first child was born, I was in a lot of pain physically and was EXHAUSTED. Suddenly he had a sex drive now that I just physically couldn't. I got pregnant again when my youngest was barely 9 months old. I was more exhausted. I didn't want sex. He wasn't helping around the house or with the kids like I needed, and sex was the very last thing on my mind. I was resentlful that he was meeting none of my needs but wanted this one of his met. I figured if it was that important, couldn't he give me the slightest bit of relief with chores, etc.? Our marriage went through some tough times (not just because of the sex - I was resentful feeling like the household slave). We survived it. Made it to the other side. Health problems also followed having children for me which made sex even less of a priority in my mind. Despite all of that, I still tried to be available for him as much as I could. In some ways it was a mistake because I think I quite literally developed an aversion to sex. If he so much as gave me a hug, I would feel disgusted thinking that sexual pursual was sure to follow.
> 
> ...


I believe you are over thinking. Keep yourself busy many things. You say he dont have an extra marital affair so dont feel rejected bcoz thats wht is ruining this relationship. 

May be hes bored having sex the same ancient way, if theres no adventure then obviously one fine day you wont enjoy it, or just do it for namesake.

More on your reply.


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## Arbr14 (Apr 26, 2021)

I just sat here crying through reading your post cause I’m about to hit the two year mark with my husband. We’ve been together for six years and sex started falling off before we really got married. We got married in Hawaii and didn’t have sex until almost two weeks later on our last night there. I spent most of my honeymoon heart broken and I completely understand where you’re coming from. Nothing much has changed we have sex maybe once a month after I just keep trying and trying , I also feel like he just goes through the motions because he knows it’s been awhile. My birthday is in Aug, this past one I didn’t get anything that whole month as a gift I suppose. Some how we managed to get pregnant this year and I just had a miscarriage on the 15th. The two weeks that we weren’t supposed to have sex according to the doctor is the only time in years he has shown that much interest in me.
Neither of us saved it for marriage. Reading your post makes me wonder if I’m reading my future and it is killing me. I obviously don’t have any advice to give. I’m curious to see what advice people here will offer up. You’re not alone though if there is any solace in that.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Arbr14 said:


> I just sat here crying through reading your post cause I’m about to hit the two year mark with my husband.


I am so sorry you are going through this as well. I will say that it is a slight consolation to know that it is not that uncommon. When we first got married, it was the day of dial-up internet. There wasn't a whole lot of information out there about a woman being higher drive. I guess there still isn't, but it's more than it used to be. I felt like some kind of freak thinking I was the only female in the world this was happening to. In any case, I'm so sorry you are also having these issues. Maybe we can support each other. If it's any hope for you, it did get better for us for a while. There was a time I could hardly fend him off and it felt like he wanted it constantly at a time that was difficult for me. Not sure why we're back in this spot. . .


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Also, I should mention we are in our early 40's. Is a drop in testosterone likely this early?


That was going to be my next question (age) but yes you can have a drop off at that point or even before it.

Testosterone is at least partially responsible for spontaneous desire and if his has dropped off a cliff it could explain why he’s not initiating. There could be many other reasons as well but that’s a good start.

I would just tell your husband to ask about it when he goes in for his physical. It shouldn’t be a big deal as I’m sure they’ll do a full blood panel on him anyway. If it’s awkward for him then too bad.

The shift you need to have in your mind is that you’re awesome and you deserve to have the sexual relationship you want to have. There’s nothing wrong with you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One other thing, if you’re the higher desire partner what does he do when you initiate?


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Thank you so much!! I needed to hear that. I appreciate you taking the time to respond!


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> One other thing, if you’re the higher desire partner what does he do when you initiate?


I rarely initiate. I'm so terrified of rejection. This has taken such an emotional toll on me over 20 years, that I can hardly stand to make myself that vulnerable. However, I initiated recently and he was responsive. But I feel like one rejection would send me reeling into depression. There have been many times when I've tried to give him the hint at a point just short of initiating and either he's not getting the hint or doesn't want it. I don't know which. And it also feels awkward because when we did talk about how I feel about this, he said that he "could never reject [me]." Now I feel even more weird initiating because I don't want to feel like I'm pressuring him. I know that's probably overthinking things. I wish I had never let things get to this point and we'd dealt with the initial problem early in marriage. Now, it seems so much more complicated because I have so much going on emotionally.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I think it’s not unusual at all for the woman to want/need the man to initiate.

I was just curious because I am HD and I have to actively stop myself from initiating because naturally I am ready to go 24/7 (if awake).


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## DallasCowboyFan (Nov 20, 2012)

The testosterone idea is one that needs to be pursued. He just needs to ask his doctor to add that to the annual blood test list along with cholesterol, etc. Low testosterone can cause lower drive, disinterest, lethargy, bone loss, etc. I have low testosterone, have read many books about it and am in several chat groups with others who suffer from it. Normal range really isn't acceptable if he is at the low end - he needs to be 500-600 or above on his blood reading. Many doctors will treat him if his levels are below that if he is symptomatic - but many will not.


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## Helping Hand (Sep 8, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I rarely initiate. I'm so terrified of rejection. This has taken such an emotional toll on me over 20 years, that I can hardly stand to make myself that vulnerable. However, I initiated recently and he was responsive. But I feel like one rejection would send me reeling into depression. There have been many times when I've tried to give him the hint at a point just short of initiating and either he's not getting the hint or doesn't want it. I don't know which. And it also feels awkward because when we did talk about how I feel about this, he said that he "could never reject [me]." Now I feel even more weird initiating because I don't want to feel like I'm pressuring him. I know that's probably overthinking things. I wish I had never let things get to this point and we'd dealt with the initial problem early in marriage. Now, it seems so much more complicated because I have so much going on emotionally.


I can understand you had many rejections from him in the past but if you beed something then I believe you must initiate and dont assume anything, because may be if you have sex after almost 2 weeks or so then he might end up satisfying you.

Most importantly : please DONT feel dishearted if he reject you. If you are 100% confident that he dont have any affair outside then he will satisfy you for sure. There are various techniques that are called as weak points. 


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## Helping Hand (Sep 8, 2020)

Figure out his weak points wherein he ll give what you want to satisfy


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> But I feel like one rejection would send me reeling into depression


So with regards to this the way I compartmentalize this, the rejection is a rejection of the act of sex it’s not a rejection of you.

I asked my wife to come to bed last night and she was like, “Nah I’m going to stay up and watch TV.” I even tried being sneaky and I texted her 20 minutes later asking what she was doing. So basically I got rejected twice in 20 minutes. I thought “that sucks” then I went to sleep.

If this ever gets annoying I use it as fuel for self improvement. I eat less, I train harder at the gym, I work harder. The mindset that keeps you from thinking about sex is the one you need to adopt.

I had the talk with her once and explained my needs. She knows what I want out of our sexual relationship and she either gets on the “us” bandwagon or doesn’t.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> So with regards to this the way I compartmentalize this, the rejection is a rejection of the act of sex it’s not a rejection of you.


My brain gets that but my heart has a hard time with it. It seems the more I try to not think about it, the more frustrated I get when I do. I'm definitely going to try and talk to him about the testosterone thing. Maybe it's as simple as that. I hope so. I don't know how to keep living like this. I love him. I want to be faithful to my marriage in obedience to God, but I don't know how much longer I can continue on this emotional roller coaster. It's not like it's the only obstacle our marriage has as all marriages take work, but it's a HUGE one for me at the moment. Trying to figure out what I can do to get off the roller coaster but still have a good marriage. It's been tough.

Maybe it's not fair to say, but the rejection as I feel as a woman is so deep. I feel like our culture has taught us that men want sex, so it feels like something is wrong with me if he doesn't. I know that's not rational or necessarily true, but it's hard to make my emotions line up with what I know is true. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about it. I think the advice you've given is solid. I appreciate the encouraging words.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Maybe it's not fair to say, but I the rejection as I feel as a woman is so deep. I feel like our culture has taught us that men want sex, so it feels like something is wrong with me if he doesn't.


If you read the literature on this you’re in the unfortunate 20% of women who have higher desire than their spouse. That is still quite a large number and it’s not uncommon. r/deadbedrooms is full of them.


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## coquille (May 8, 2018)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> My brain gets that but my heart has a hard time with it. It seems the more I try to not think about it, the more frustrated I get when I do. I'm definitely going to try and talk to him about the testosterone thing. Maybe it's as simple as that. I hope so. I don't know how to keep living like this. I love him. I want to be faithful to my marriage in obedience to God, but I don't know how much longer I can continue on this emotional roller coaster. It's not like it's the only obstacle our marriage has as all marriages take work, but it's a HUGE one for me at the moment. Trying to figure out what I can do to get off the roller coaster but still have a good marriage. It's been tough.
> 
> Maybe it's not fair to say, but the rejection as I feel as a woman is so deep. I feel like our culture has taught us that men want sex, so it feels like something is wrong with me if he doesn't. I know that's not rational or necessarily true, but it's hard to make my emotions line up with what I know is true. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about it. I think the advice you've given is solid. I appreciate the encouraging words.


I'm with on you on the difficulty to face rejection as a woman. We women are conditioned in such a way that we expect men to pursue us sexually while men are conditioned to pursue women. For this reason, rejection is part of the pursuit, and they come to deal with it (it is still hard, but they understand that it's part of the game), but women (not all, but a big number of us) have a hard time pursuing a man and even a harder time getting rejection.

Your situation has more to it than just rejection; your husband sounds not very open to communication, and this can be equally, if not more, frustrating than his low sexual drive. I agree with you that yours is a life full of frustrating moments that you have been able to manage so far, but you will reach a point where enough is enough. You need to communicate your boundaries to him, and just tell him that you are a human being with emotional and physical needs, and he needs to work on fulfilling your needs, because otherwise you cannot go on with life with so much frustration. Maybe you could start by asking him if he thinks that you are fulfilling his emotional and sexual needs? Wait for his answer and then voice your needs.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't think you have a sex problem as much as I think you have a communication problem. Seems like there has been many times when he, but mostly you have been hurting or unhappy in your marriage and you both choose to sulk, eventually resentment forms and lock you into your situation.

So my first question is, does you husband know all of this? How resentful you have felt at times, why you had sexual aversion, that you had sexual aversion at all, that you felt taken for granted and a slave, that you are upset now and desire a robust physical relationship?

If he doesn't he really should, assuming you are being reasonable, and you seem to be from your post, you are just better off if you communicate with him what your needs are and when you are unsatisfied. (not even talking about just sex) That is the only way he is going to know.

I think part of the reason you feel SO vulnerable about all of this, why you don't feel comfortable initiating for instance, is because you don't have any idea what's going on in his head so you fear the worst. If you guys had a good line of communication about this it wouldn't be such a big deal. You may even start to sense when he is open to your initiation and it might spark something. 

I also suspect that his advances being rejected by you years ago also took a toll on him, he may have just assumed you no longer felt he was attractive, maybe even subconsciously. This may account for him no longer trying. 

Finally coming from a religious background, depending how conservative your church was, I think I can say that often this creates an unhealthy shame particularly in men as they are told over an over that their nature is sinful and it's is not very often taught with the kind of nuance necessary to avoid this. Lust = adultery is something that is sometimes hammered into young men to the point that they almost get a complex about their own nature. Not good. This may account for some of your husbands life long hesitancy around this stuff.

Even at a less extrema, I don't think many religious people learn how to flirt sexually, so much time is spent instructing you to to control and hide your urges that I think many people just feel uncomfortable doing this. But this is a primary way we communicate or desires for each other sexually. 

You both probably need to be reprogrammed. 

Bottom line you are going to have to find the courage to talk to him about this. It may seem weird at first because you both are not used to it, but it won't get better unless you do.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Then, I made a bad decision (not the worse one mind you, but a bad one to try to fill the emotional hole). I decided to try and take my mind off it and instead pursue having kids. *After my first child was born, I was in a lot of pain physically and was EXHAUSTED. Suddenly he had a sex drive now that I just physically couldn't. I got pregnant again *when my youngest was barely 9 months old. I was more exhausted. I didn't want sex. He wasn't helping around the house or with the kids like I needed, and sex was the very last thing on my mind. I was resentlful that he was meeting none of my needs but wanted this one of his met. ......In some ways it was a mistake because I think I quite literally developed an aversion to sex. If he so much as gave me a hug, I would feel disgusted thinking that sexual pursual was sure to follow.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First of all as a husband who was in a sex starved marriage I can really identify with your pain and suffering.

I want to complement you in your understand that your actions were part of the problem that caused your current situation. You are not along and sex once a week means you have at least a good starting point. What helped me was to read a number of books to figure myself out and understand my part in the sexual problems my wife had. I felt I was the victim in marrying an frigid ice queen who refused to have sex with me. Ultimately, I learned that I was part of the problem. You have already made that realization. Then I had to work on changing myself in the way I treated my wife, in the way I accepted her needs, and in forgiving her of the very deep emotional pain she caused me.

You are not alone, I would suggest you get and read MW Davis book the Sex Starved Wife. You will learn you are not alone. You will learn that you can't change your husband and the way he treats you, you can chage the dynamic in your marriage such that he will have to reevaluate how he treats you. He can change for the better or the worse, you can't make anything happen that he doesn't want to do. However, if he choose a new path that you like you can provide positive feedback that will encourage more positive change.

The tough part for each of you will be to truly forgive each other of the pain that has been inflicted. I used words of affirmation or self-hypnosis (like stop smoking, weight loss, get more exercise DVD's or tapes you can buy). I kept reminding myself that I am high sexual desire and my wife is low sexual desire and I can't change that. She is human and struggling the best she can to be the best wife she can. Then I needed to change my view of myself. I had to loose my codependency and view that her wanting me was a measure of my self image and self worth. I had to become a more integrated person who was proud of myself and what I accomplished. I was not defined by or needed my ego stroked by my wife. It was something I enjoyed, but I didn't require it to be happy.

Next my suggestion is for the two of you to go to a sex therapist for counseling. A sex therapist is a marriage counselor with extra training in sexual problems. The sex therapist my wife and I went to worked wonders. We were both committed to saving our marriage, but the ST helped us share with each other what an ideal marriage looked like, how much sex each of required to be truly happy, what our marriage goals were now, 5 years from now 20 years form now, etc. Soon we will celebrating our 50th wedding anniversary. 

What I really need to be happy is to have sex three times a week. My wife wants sex at most once a week. The ST helped us negotiate a compromise of twice a week. That if far below what I want, but is the absolute lower limit of what I can emotionally handle to remain emotionally bonded to her. Twice a week is absolutely my wife's breaking point in what she can handle. It is a compromise that we both have to constantly work at. That will be your future life if you can negotiate such a compromise.

Good luck.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

I am also an HD wife. It wasn't always the case. Over the years, because of relationship issues and kids, we switched roles. I know is sucks, because most female friends don't get it, and it's easy to feel undesired. I don't really have any advice, but you aren't alone.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Too bad I didn't marry some of you HD women...


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Also, I should mention we are in our early 40's. Is a drop in testosterone likely this early?


I had to start T replacement at 37. Low T is affecting more and more younger men.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Twodecades said:


> I am also an HD wife. It wasn't always the case. Over the years, because of relationship issues and kids, we switched roles. I know is sucks, because most female friends don't get it, and it's easy to feel undesired. I don't really have any advice, but you aren't alone.


The feeling undesired goes for anyone who has physical intimacy as their love language, no matter their sex.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> The feeling undesired goes for anyone who has physical intimacy as their love language, no matter their sex.


True, and I can absolutely see where men would feel that, especially if they need sex to feel loved by their wife. But since the norm for a woman in a marriage is to we are sexually pursued and don't have to initiate, and everywhere you turn you see men interested in sex and women turning them down...it can make you feel especially alone and perhaps undesirable to be the one generally pursuing or being turned down.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> since the norm for a woman in a marriage is to we sexual pushed and not have to initiate


I have to agree. It feels bad as a man (coming from experience) but I think it would feel worse as a woman.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

I want to thank everyone for their supportive comments, and especially those that gave good, practical advice. Even if I didn't respond directly to you, know that I read what you had to say. 

As a follow-up, I ended up talking to my husband the other night. I thought it would make things worse to keep talking about it, but I also think that we hadn't spoken specifically enough. I told him previously it was a problem without really stating what I wanted or finding out what he would want with regards to frequency. We also talked about a few other things. We both find it very difficult to talk about sex, which doesn't exactly help. So it was good to have some communication in all related areas. I think it was a healthy conversation, and maybe something that needs to happen more often with positive feedback from time to time.

While our talk didn't exactly resolve everything (I'm not sure this is going to increase the frequency at all, and I certainly didn't want to make him feel pressure about it), I at least understand a little more what's happening now. I was feeling like it was about me in some way (like I was undesirable or something), and it's really not about me at all based on what he's telling me. So, while that doesn't "fix" anything, it is still helpful, and maybe will open the door to us being able to talk a little more openly to each other in the future. I'm hoping I can share when I've feeling abandoned, and we can at least work through the emotional pieces. He also brought it up himself that it's possible his testosterone levels are decreasing. Hopefully, that will be addressed at his doctor's appointment. He mentioned other things, too, that tend to get in the way that really have nothing to do with our relationship directly, but hopefully, they are things that can be worked on as they affect other areas of life besides sex. I don't know that we solved any problems for the long-term, but I have a little hope now, at least.

For the other HD wives that commented on my post, I support you!! I'm sorry it's hard for you, too (and for men experiencing this as well, of course!). I wouldn't wish the deep hurt that comes with this on anyone. And for whoever said they'd wished they'd married a HD woman, don't we all wish we'd married to match our drive. LOL Lots of love to you all! I imagine this isn't the end and I may be back to express my frustration some more as we try to work through this, but hopefully, we've at least made progress in the area of communication! I'm thankful to have a place where I can talk about it with people who mostly seem to understand and be understanding. Thank you all again for your support.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Twodecades said:


> But since the norm for a woman in a marriage is to we are sexual pursued and don't have to initiate, and everywhere you turn you see men interested in sex and women turning them down...it can make you feel especially alone and perhaps undesirable to be the one generally pursuing or being turned down.


It's not okay for it to be the norm. Benefits and detriments should be shared equally by the sexes. Men can feel as "especially alone and perhaps undesirable" as women can. This response furthers a stereotype that needs to be eliminated.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> We both find it very difficult to talk about sex, which doesn't exactly help.


If you can't talk about sex with your spouse, with whom should you discuss it?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Sfort said:


> If you can't talk about sex with your spouse, with whom should you discuss it?


TAM of course.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

Sfort said:


> It's not okay for it to be the norm. Benefits and detriments should be shared equally by the sexes. Men can feel as "especially alone and perhaps undesirable" as women can. This response furthers a stereotype that needs to be eliminated.


Wow, thanks for setting me straight.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> TAM of course.


😂


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Sfort said:


> If you can't talk about sex with your spouse, with whom should you discuss it?


I'm not really sure what the point of your post was? It's not a particularly helpful comment in and of itself. Surely we aren't the only ones who have difficulty with this. It's awkward, at least at first. I think the point is that we're both trying and made some progress. I know we both wish it was easier to be more open with each other. Talking to him about this specifically (and a few other hot button topics in our marriage) is not easy for reasons given below.

The way we were each raised probably has something to do with this. His family doesn't talk about things. They never have. When my BIL and his wife announced they separating at the dinner table, everyone just sat there silently and acted like nothing was said. As for me, I'm willing to be open when asked about things, but I was also raised in a home where it wasn't safe to have feelings or say how you felt, so there's a layer of caution there that makes addressing difficult things directly challenging for me. My dad was angry and bordered on abusive while my mother dealt with depression and was often emotionally neglectful. So, there's a reason we are the way we are. Not saying it's healthy or right, but it's a struggle for us. I've worked a lot on being more direct when a situation calls for it. For some it's natural to talk, but some of us have to work at it. Twenty years ago, we didn't share a lot of feelings. Now, it's better but there is still tons of room for improvement. When you've been through some life trauma, it's a process. So, that's why I said that.

Anyway, that's probably a lot more information than your question warranted, but it's a good thing for us that we're talking. I'm all for some blunt truth to be shared here where needed, but compassion is also helpful when doing so. I don't think one single post in this section is just about the physical act of sex alone. It can't be because there is way more to sex than just a physical act, especially in a marriage. Just read a few posts down and you can see all types of communication issues interfering with resolving some of these issues. Not the only problem for sure, but it's definitely a huge thing.

.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I want to thank everyone for their supportive comments, and especially those that gave good, practical advice. Even if I didn't respond directly to you, know that I read what you had to say.
> 
> As a follow-up, I ended up talking to my husband the other night. I thought it would make things worse to keep talking about it, but I also think that we hadn't spoken specifically enough. I told him previously it was a problem without really stating what I wanted or finding out what he would want with regards to frequency. We also talked about a few other things. We both find it very difficult to talk about sex, which doesn't exactly help. So it was good to have some communication in all related areas. I think it was a healthy conversation, and maybe something that needs to happen more often with positive feedback from time to time.
> 
> ...


I think having that talk is a major step in the right direction. My wife an I have been married a long time, 31+ years, but when our kids went to college a few years ago it almost felt like we were starting over. It actually scared me a little. We started talking about all kinds of things in our relationship, including sex. At first I felt really nervous about starting up those conversations. I mean like shaking hands nervous. They got much easier over time and I feel like everyone of those conversations brought us closer together. 

A big part of those conversations were about sex, specifically frequency. At this point in time I am the higher drive spouse. I really had a hard time with the rejection, just like you have mentioned before. It feels like a rejection of you personally, but that isn't the case. I found some great advice on another site. Lots of good information from both sides of the equation. How a HD spouse should approach a LD drive and vice versa. How handled rejection and how to be better at rejecting. It is worth a read. I would look over the whole site but here are a several really relevant articles. 









Responsive vs spontaneous desire - Uncovering Intimacy


Yesterday I wrote about arousal non-concordance and how sometimes our body’s arousal doesn’t match up with our mind’s arousal. How it can be that your mind might want sex, but your body isn’t ready. Or the opposite can happen. Unfortunately, this confuses a lot of women




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












SWM 047 - Spontaneous desire is a blessing - Uncovering Intimacy


Feel like having a high sex drive is a burden? Wonder why God made you this way? Here are some reasons I think having spontaneous desire is a blessing.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












SWM 046 - Responsive desire is a blessing - Uncovering Intimacy


Responsive desire isn't an abnormality, disability or curse. It's a blessing. Once you learn to work with it, it can actually lead to an amazing sex life.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












What do couples do when one wants sex and the other doesn't? - Uncovering Intimacy


Curiuos what other couples do when one spouse is in the mood and the other isn't? We were too. Here's what we learned of our survey of over 1300 spouses.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Dealing with passive rejection - Uncovering Intimacy


I received this question yesterday through our anonymous Have A Question page: When ever I ask my wife for sex she doesn’t say no but she just says she has to do a few things out side and then she will be right back but




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Being more skilled at rejection - Uncovering Intimacy


Want to know how to reject your spouse in a way that doesn't hurt their feelings but ensures they don't ask for sex again? Become more skilled at rejection.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com





All worth a read.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Glad you were able to talk with him about this. Hopefully he’s just low T and goes on TRT and he resumes initiating.

If not, it’s a process. With the right attitude of both people it is definitely possible to fix this.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> All worth a read.


Thank you for sharing these! I will definitely take some time to read them.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

> Sfort said:
> If you can't talk about sex with your spouse, with whom should you discuss it?





ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I'm not really sure what the point of your post was? It's not a particularly helpful comment in and of itself. Surely we aren't the only ones who have difficulty with this. It's awkward, at least at first. I think the point is that we're both trying and made some progress. I know we both wish it was easier to be more open with each other. *Talking to him about this specifically (and a few other hot button topics in our marriage) is not easy for reasons given below.*
> 
> The way we were each raised probably has something to do with this. *His family doesn't talk about things.* They never have. When my BIL and his wife announced they separating at the dinner table, everyone just sat there silently and acted like nothing was said. As for me, I'm willing to be open when asked about things, but I* was also raised in a home where it wasn't safe to have feelings or say how you felt*, so there's a layer of caution there that makes addressing difficult things directly challenging for me. My dad was angry and bordered on abusive while my mother dealt with depression and was often emotionally neglectful. So, there's a reason we are the way we are. Not saying it's healthy or right, but it's a struggle for us. I've worked a lot on being more direct when a situation calls for it. For some it's natural to talk, but* some of us have to work at it*. Twenty years ago, we didn't share a lot of feelings. Now, it's better but there is still tons of room for improvement. When you've been through some life trauma, it's a process. So, that's why I said that.
> 
> Anyway, that's probably a lot more information than your question warranted, but it's a good thing for us that we're talking. I'm all for some blunt truth to be shared here where needed, but compassion is also helpful when doing so. I don't think one single post in this section is just about the physical act of sex alone. It can't be because there is way more to sex than just a physical act, especially in a marriage. Just read a few posts down and you can see all types of communication issues interfering with resolving some of these issues. Not the only problem for sure, but it's definitely a huge thing.


Actually, I think that was a very interesting point that was raised. I want to complement you on knowing how difficult it is and yet important that the two of you have certain discussions.

First, David Schnarch has a number of interesting things to say on this topic. Some of his famous statements include: "Marriage is the hardest thing that two people can do, if done correctly." "Marriage is a people-growing machine." "Marriage is like a crucible where two different elements are rendered into a single new compound through fire and pressure." His point is that marriage is not suppose to be easy. The kind of communications it takes for a good marriage are not easy to do. If you want a good marriage, it will require work and stretching yourself to you breaking point through out the entire marriage. One partner is always growing and they grow (mature) at different rates. This push-pull causes tension throughout the marriage. It can start as two people living together that haven't lived together. It can be how two people learn to spend and prioritized money. How they handle child rearing or parenting. I can be how they handle different sexual needs that change as they have children, as they age, and as they develop infirmities associated with aging, etc.

Another tongue in cheek comment I remember was either from a book, article or Ted Talk. It went something like every wife should should listen respectfully and non-judgmentally to her husband to learn his deepest darkest sexual secrets. After all, if he can't tell his wife, who can he tell? The answer, unfortunately, is often that he can tell a prostitute who will listen respectfully and figure out how much to charge him so he can experience those deep dark sexual secrets. That is a very important answer to the question you have somewhat dismissed. Of course it can be applied to either partner through an affair as well, so it is not just tied to men.

Base on my experiences, I would like to offer some alternate approaches, if you personally find it too difficult to talk about some sexual things. One alternate would to for the two of you to both share your deepest darkest sexual secrets (which includes fears) with a sex therapist during marriage counseling sessions. Again, it will be difficult to open up, but marriage is not suppose to be easy and the catharsis of getting things off your chest can be very liberating, even if your spouse does not want to explore all your fantasies. 

Alternately, if you want to try it yourself, there are Yes/No/Maybe lists you can download off the Internet having to do with sex. You and your spouse can answer the list separately and then sit down at a time when sex would be out of the question to discuss each answer. Sharing your reasons with each other for the No's and Maybe's was really interesting.

Similarly, I found it helpful to jointly read a book on sexual relations (Something by Schnarch or the Gottmans). We use to read a chapter a week on our own and then discuss that chapter we had read each week. We talked about what parts of the chapter resonated with us, what parts scared us, what parts we wanted our partner to pay close attention to, and what parts we wanted to incorporate within our own behavior. Even though things may be difficult there are lots of ways that two people (committed to their marriage) can engage in truly important conversations.

Good luck.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> Base on my experiences, I would like to offer some alternate approaches, if you personally find it too difficult to talk about some sexual things.


Thank you! I think those are great activities that you mentioned. Those would be some tough things to convince my husband to try, though. He would definitely be much more uncomfortable with them than I would be, but I would certainly be willing. I find it a difficult line to figure out how much to push for something that I think might help versus when to let things go for a bit. I know pushing someone too hard about something can end up pushing them away instead of making it better, so I feel I must measure how far out of the comfort zone to ask him to go all at once (trying to be understanding of his feelings, too!) 



Young at Heart said:


> Actually, I think that was a very interesting point that was raised. I want to complement you on knowing how difficult it is and yet important that the two of you have certain discussions.


Also, to be clear, I wasn't dismissing the question that was asked. On the contrary, my response was because I felt like the context of what I posted was dismissed (and maybe I'm mistaken about that?). The question felt like a judgment or poking fun. But maybe I took it the wrong way - sometimes that happens when something is solely in writing. If I misread the intent of the person posting, I apologize. I very much do want to have good communication with my husband and of course would rather talk to him. It's just tough to talk about sex sometimes, and I don't want him to feel some kind of undue pressure because I'm bringing the same thing up over and over with no type of progress, as I can see that making it very difficult physically for things to happen. He's not bringing up what he wants to me, at least not verbally, so if we need to talk about it, that seems to fall on me at this point in time to either figure it out or to coax out of him. I know it's as hard for him as it is for me to talk about sensitive subjects, so I understand that he's not saying as much as I'd like.

That said, I 100% agree that the type of communication that needs to happen in a marriage is difficult. I personally think a lot of marriages end because people can't put their pride aside long enough to try and see the other person's point of view or even communicate their own point of view effectively. That's an oversimplification but hopefully makes sense. For example, there are times I have tried to communicate things with my husband about other areas of our marriage (intrusive in-laws come to mind) as kindly as possible, but it has been met with anger despite trying very hard to be gentle about it because I know he loves his parents. I'm guessing that's usually because he sees my intentions differently than I see them. I am trying to communicate how I feel so that we can come to a mutual solution, but he may think I'm saying there's a problem with him/them or what he's doing when that's not necessarily what I think at all. Sometimes, it's just a different perspective where a mutually agreeable solution could be reached if we could harness our emotions long enough to truly hear what the other is saying. All that to say that I understand what you're saying about the hard work it takes in marriage to communicate effectively. It's a process.

If we come to an impasse on this (the sexual frequency), I will definitely want to see a therapist. Hopefully, he would agree to that even if it's uncomfortable, as it would be better than the alternative of us either being miserable or having a marriage fall apart. I am learning a lot from this thread, or at least feeling a little more empowered to find ways to handle this in a kind and sensitive way while still expecting that it can be better for both of us.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

Something my wife appreciates is setting a time limit on our sex chats. I'll use the word chat vs talk here on purpose. 

That sounds a bit cold, but if I say 'Now let's talk sex for 10 minutes' it becomes fun and approachable for her. Especially after she's talked to me about food for any length of time (she's a foodie). She gets the drift; me food, you sex - we love to talk about the things we love.

If it winds up going for 5 min or 15 min, it doesn't matter; it has a foreseeable limit for her, and - I - , the person who initiated, calls it when it's over until the next time. 

This starts to make sex talk casual and normal and even expected. We do this maybe 4-6 times? a month, with me usually using an opportune article, Netflix show, my own curiosity, etc as an impromptu conversation starter. It beats the routine 'how was your day' re interesting topics that's for sure. We learn about each other's desires, interests, more organically this way too - less agenda, much more fun.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> We both find it very difficult to talk about sex


I think you should start here. If you can't talk about it, it's going to be harder to freely express what turns each other on, and if you don't know that then you can't play against it. Contrary to what popular belief would have you think, not everyone is ready all the time. Some folks need encouragement. You gotta know the person to get there sometimes. I know I keep harping on it but I think a lot of people who come from a very conservative background struggle with this. You need to both fight to get over this. @*Young at Heart*'s advice is really good in regards to this.


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## Universal Wonder (Mar 18, 2015)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I have a long story that I will try to condense as much as possible. My husband and I were both virgins going into marriage by choice because of our faith. As such, I was very ready for a healthy and robust sex life once we got married. The emotional pain started on the honeymoon when he just didn't seem all that interested. He has since said that he "was in [his] head" but has never really communicated what went on then. The lack of communication from back then has created some scarring for me. I tried talking to him about it back then and wanted to go to counseling. We never went for a number of reasons, and I spent many hopeless nights in tears wondering if I was the only woman in the world whose husband didn't want sex with her. This was nearly 20 years ago.
> 
> Then, I made a bad decision (not the worse one mind you, but a bad one to try to fill the emotional hole). I decided to try and take my mind off it and instead pursue having kids. After my first child was born, I was in a lot of pain physically and was EXHAUSTED. Suddenly he had a sex drive now that I just physically couldn't. I got pregnant again when my youngest was barely 9 months old. I was more exhausted. I didn't want sex. He wasn't helping around the house or with the kids like I needed, and sex was the very last thing on my mind. I was resentlful that he was meeting none of my needs but wanted this one of his met. I figured if it was that important, couldn't he give me the slightest bit of relief with chores, etc.? Our marriage went through some tough times (not just because of the sex - I was resentful feeling like the household slave). We survived it. Made it to the other side. Health problems also followed having children for me which made sex even less of a priority in my mind. Despite all of that, I still tried to be available for him as much as I could. In some ways it was a mistake because I think I quite literally developed an aversion to sex. If he so much as gave me a hug, I would feel disgusted thinking that sexual pursual was sure to follow.
> 
> ...



Your story is similar to mine Sexless Marriage...What should I do?

I believe he is waiting for you to initiate. You should initiate intimacy in the middle of the night as he is sleeping.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

sokillme said:


> I think you should start here. If you can't talk about it, it's going to be harder to freely express what turns each other on, and if you don't know that then you can't play against it.


I'm for this, and I think Young at Heart's advice was good, as well. Can I ask, though, how do I go about it without turning him off further? I know without a doubt that he would be super uncomfortable with most of the activities mentioned by Young at Heart and is generally uncomfortable when I bring up the topic. I can see asking him to read a book with me about sex completely turning him off if he feels I'm forcing the issue. However, he's seen how distraught I've been and has been compassionately listening to me when it has come up. Maybe it's just me bringing it up playfully from time to time? It's hard for me, too, but I do talk to him when I need to even if it takes me a day or two to think about what to say and garner the courage to say it.

And, it's possible that the way he was raised was the problem in the early days of our marriage, but I honestly don't think that has a hold on him now as it relates to sex (plenty of other things, but not sex). It sure didn't change my view of sex. I'm very conservative in many ways, but I was VERY ready to have some great sex the day we said our marriage vows. The honeymoon was hurtful to me because the sex was so little. We've tried lots of new things over the years, and he was very ready to go any time for some years and was pursuing me constantly. Ironically, it was during years when there were other struggles and I was not very interested. It hurts knowing that, too. With regard to new things, he would rarely talk to me about it but rather just surprise me with something new, which I have generally been very receptive to. I don't know what changed when we had children that made him want sex more, and I'm not sure what's changed over the years as things have diminished. He told me he doesn't know either but that he still wants me. Just not as often, apparently.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

YMMV but I have found that coupled with my LD’s wife’s lack of interest in sex she also has a lack of interest in studying it. 

So I’d expect he wouldn’t be super interested in doing a book club on it. I had this idea over a year ago and bought a couple books and a pack of index cards and they now have a thick layer of dust on them.

My Kindle app on the other hand is full of books I read on this topic.

In my case only one of us needed to drive the changes and my wife needed to be receptive/responsive to what I was doing.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> In my case only one of us needed to drive the changes and my wife needed to be receptive/responsive to what I was doing.


Can I ask you (or any of the men here) about that? Even if he's willing to engage in sex when he's not necessarily feeling it in order to make me happy (for example, we agree to a compromise of X number of times per week which might be more than what he wants and less than what I want), what happens if he's just not in the mood? I'm guessing there's no "regular" sex happening then? I apologize if this sounds crude, but I just don't know any other way to ask it. I understand he can be with me in other ways that don't require him to be hard, but I'm guessing he has to be in the mood for that to happen? I feel naive asking that, but I really don't know. Another reason to find out if testosterone is the problem. But I'm just wondering if a compromise of sorts would even work in our case since it is me as a woman rather than him as the man wanting more sex.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Can I ask you (or any of the men here) about that? Even if he's willing to engage in sex when he's not necessarily feeling it in order to make me happy (for example, we agree to a compromise of X number of times per week which might be more than what he wants and less than what I want), what happens if he's just not in the mood? I'm guessing there's no "regular" sex happening then? I apologize if this sounds crude, but I just don't know any other way to ask it. I understand he can be with me in other ways that don't require him to be hard, but I'm guessing he has to be in the mood for that to happen? I feel naive asking that, but I really don't know. Another reason to find out if testosterone is the problem. But I'm just wondering if a compromise of sorts would even work in our case since it is me as a woman rather than him as the man wanting more sex.


Assuming he is able to get an erection, this compromise you are talking about should work.

Just because he isn't immediately ready to jump into sex doesn't mean he can't respond positively to your advances. It sounds like you have spontaneous desire and he has responsive desire. You need to figure how to trigger that responsive desire. To put it somewhat crudely, what gets him hard? He may not seem interested at the start, but you can build his desire.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> ...what happens if he's just not in the mood?


It depends on why. For example you can not be in the mood if you have responsive desire because your partner hasn’t done the right things to get you in the mood.

You could not be in the mood because you’re physically exhausted or legit not feeling well. In which case all the moves in the world won’t move the needle.



ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I'm guessing there's no "regular" sex happening then?


Generally we have sex about every other day but with some gaps of two days and sometimes a stretch of several days in a row where we have sex. For this month so far it looks like this:

y-n-n-y*-y-2y*-y-n-y*-n-2y-y

Code:

n = no sex
y = PIV or oral happened
2y = happened twice
* = particularly good or unusual, ex. she initiated, wore something for me, tried new positions, etc...

For me to be 100% satisfied this would be a combination of all y and 2y with as many asterisk as possible. In reality though once it gets to an average of under every other day I am not thinking about it. So despite there still being a desire gap here for me it is not something I consider during the day.

Note this has come from a starting point of 2-3 y’s a month and no asterisk.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Assuming he is able to get an erection, this compromise you are talking about should work.
> 
> Just because he isn't immediately ready to jump into sex doesn't mean he can't respond positively to your advances. It sounds like you have spontaneous desire and he has responsive desire. You need to figure how to trigger that responsive desire. To put it somewhat crudely, what gets him hard? He may not seem interested at the start, but you can build his desire.


I guess that is what I was asking. Can he get an erection if he wasn't initially in the mood? It sounds like the answer may be "yes." Thank you for that info!! I guess then, I also need help on figuring out exactly what gets him there. It's difficult because it used to be anytime, anyway for many years. I've been just letting things go and being frustrated with what I consider to be minimal sex for the last year+, but something's gotta give, which is why I'm here. So I feel like I'm starting all over on figuring this out. 

Does anyone have any resources/books to read on ideas for making it more pleasurable for the man? It seems like a lot are centered on women as that seems to be a more common issue. I still need to check out the articles that have already been posted (and I will), but I would also love a resource that gives some specific details on how to get him aroused. I can and will try talking about it with him, but I know it will take a lot of time for him to share much. I do plan to get the book on the Sex-Starved Wife, as well.

Again, I just want to say I really appreciate all of the advice and help!!


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Generally we have sex about every other day but with some gaps of two days and sometimes a stretch of several days in a row where we have sex.


I wasn't very clear - by "regular" sex, I meant PIV. I couldn't think of a non-crude way to say it until I saw the acronym in your next post. If he is unable to get an erection for whatever reason, that part of it would be out, I would think. 

Your posts definitely give me hope. Did it change in your marriage simply because your wife was willing to compromise with you? I think my husband is willing to try to make things better, but I also know better than to push too hard. 2 times a day seems like some unattainable fantasy right now. Conversing with all of you is giving me some clarity, I think, though, on how I might be able to work with my husband on making things better.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Did it change in your marriage simply because your wife was willing to compromise with you?


I describe what I did in detail if you click my profile and read the discussion I created called “My Story”.

I had to change my own behavior a lot. I’m not sure compromise is the right word but maybe it is. 

As an example yesterday she didn’t come to bed and I suspect she was going to stay up doing something. So I texted her a flirty text. She ended up coming to bed and was responsive. If I had an agreement of X days or every Y days or something then there isn’t this spontaneous opportunity.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Have you checked into his porn use? This is probably more an epidemic among men than low-t. Obviously it’s unfair to speculate... but you might only be getting a percentage of his “sexuality” if this is the case.

I’d say 95% of men on TAM (anonymously) say they’re porn users however nowhere near that amount admit this in real life... so I think there are a good percentage of “closet” users.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

CatholicDad said:


> Have you checked into his porn use? This is probably more an epidemic among men than low-t. Obviously it’s unfair to speculate... but you might only be getting a percentage of his “sexuality” if this is the case.
> 
> I’d say 95% of men on TAM (anonymously) say they’re porn users however nowhere near that amount admit this in real life... so I think there are a good percentage of “closet” users.


Yes, I've checked browser history, google activity history tied to his phone, etc. (much to my shame because I don't want to breach trust, but I needed to know). No indication of porn use. Outside of things we do together, he seems to spend 99% of his leisure time both online and off listening to political commentary podcasts and reading similar publications. Porn use definitely occurred to me (although I didn't think it was an issue, and to my knowledge, he's not used porn). During the pandemic and just until recently, he was also working at home where most everything he looked at online, etc., could be seen by myself or our kids if we just walked into the room. I've never caught him trying to cover something up. He allows me to answer his phone when someone calls, leaves it on the charger when he's in the shower, etc. This is why I'm also pretty certain there hasn't been an affair. There is no way he would have the time AND privacy in the last year or so for these things to have happened.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Can I ask you (or any of the men here) about that? Even if he's willing to engage in sex when he's not necessarily feeling it in order to make me happy (for example, we agree to a compromise of X number of times per week which might be more than what he wants and less than what I want), what happens if he's just not in the mood? I'm guessing there's no "regular" sex happening then? I apologize if this sounds crude, but I just don't know any other way to ask it. I understand he can be with me in other ways that don't require him to be hard, but I'm guessing he has to be in the mood for that to happen? I feel naive asking that, but I really don't know. Another reason to find out if testosterone is the problem. But I'm just wondering if a compromise of sorts would even work in our case since it is me as a woman rather than him as the man wanting more sex.


I so empathize with your thread, and I get exactly what you're saying with this post. Again, this is one of the differences between being an HD woman coupled with a LD or lower desire man. Responsive desire doesn't always work in reverse for intercourse. Sometimes I found that it could put pressure on him if I initiated and all of the physical processes didn't cooperate, which could create a negative cycle. If that's the case, see if he's willing to focus on giving you satisfaction instead, if he isn't in the mood. Sometimes that has the added benefit of getting other things working. Also, apparently as men age it's common to require more direct stimulation in order to get an erection. Not true for all, I assume, but not uncommon. Even when T levels are fine.

I know it can be difficult not to internalize his lack of interest, but you may have to actively work not to fall into the trap of feeling like there is something wrong with you, as I did. I have (and maintained through the years) a BMI of 20, take care of myself, etc., while most of the women in my social circles--even ones who did not take any pride in their appearance--complain about how often their husbands are in the mood. Some of them have bragged that they're not about to give up their granny panties and sweat pants, how they hadn't worn pretty lingerie for their husbands since the honeymoon. And yet their husbands still are always trying to get sex. So in comparison, I felt really undesirable. 

Admittedly, I still struggle with it once in a great while, but I eventually realized his LD wasn't about me (and I did my due diligence to make sure I wasn't somehow contributing). Until I grappled with that, however, it made the whole dynamic worse. When I start to feel sorry for myself, I try to do things that make me feel pretty and focus on hobbies to better myself. I don't know that this applies in your case, but in mine, I tried to use the opportunity to understand how my husband felt in the years that roles were reversed.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> *I rarely initiate. I'm so terrified of rejection.* This has taken such an emotional toll on me over 20 years, that I can hardly stand to make myself that vulnerable. However, I initiated recently and he was responsive. But I feel like one rejection would send me reeling into depression. There have been many times when I've tried to give him the hint at a point just short of initiating and either he's not getting the hint or doesn't want it. I don't know which. And it also feels awkward because when we did talk about how I feel about this, he said that he "could never reject [me]." Now I feel even more weird initiating because I don't want to feel like I'm pressuring him. I know that's probably overthinking things. I wish I had never let things get to this point and we'd dealt with the initial problem early in marriage. Now, it seems so much more complicated because I have so much going on emotionally.


My take:
The guy didn’t even have sex with you in your wedding night...... baaaaaaaad sign.
You wanted sex, then you decided you didn’t want sex when then he wanted sex, now you don’t get enough sex. Damn, you are DIFFICULT!!!!!!

you am rarely initiate, but you want more sex. You say he’s a very giving lover when you do have sex.

I think you have a very much equal share in this problem. It’s not his fault you fear rejection. We men get rejection all the time. You don’t think he feared rejection all the times he initiated and you gruffly pushed him away (hopefully you didn't do that, just sayin’)??

Want more sex? Initiate more. Yes testosterone goes down a lot about 40. I’m high drive and if I were in a long term relationship where I slept every night with my SO, I’d want about 2-3 times a week vs every night from 18-38 or so. I considered myself high drive. Your husband has NEVER been high drive. It’s just not him.

sit him down and tell him what you told us: you need more sex, more passionate sex from him and are feeling unloved. You need him to initiate more. No, don’t say more, say an exact number. Give him the opportunity to keep you happy. Listen to one another. This shouldn’t be so dang hard. You’ve put up with one another’s crazy ways for 20 years. You live one another. Show it. Communicate and stop letting YOUR unreasonable fear paralyze you is you can’t talk to your husband in a living way and work out what’s causing you to build up all this resentment.

My thoughts are that he loves you, wants you happy, and would do a lot to make an effort if you’d just tell him exactly what you need.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I wasn't very clear - by "regular" sex, I meant PIV. I couldn't think of a non-crude way to say it until I saw the acronym in your next post.* If he is unable to get an erection for whatever reason, that part of it would be out, I would think.*
> 
> Your posts definitely give me hope. Did it change in your marriage simply because your wife was willing to compromise with you? *I think my husband is willing to try to make things better, but I also know better than to push too hard.* 2 times a day seems like some unattainable fantasy right now. Conversing with all of you is giving me some clarity, I think, though, on how I might be able to work with my husband on making things better.


First, you are right in not pushing too hard. You know him the best. Perhaps listening to what he wants and his view of a loving sexual relationship might be worth focusing on for a while.

A couple thoughts. First, an erection is not necessary for intimacy. Just as men are taught or learn from LD wives that a woman doesn't need to orgasm to feel she has been pleased and intimate with her husband, perhaps your H can find emotional intimacy with you even without PIV. There are lots of sexy things a man and a woman can do, besides PIV intercourse. The two of you have probably done some in your youth even it they weren't with each other. Maybe you can ask you H what his most erotic experiences were before he lost his virginity. If any sound interesting to you, ask him if you can learn how to do them so you as his wife will be the source of his most erotic experiences. My LD wife loves back/shoulder rubs and foot rubs especially when she knows it will not lead to sex.

Since you asked if lack of an erection makes PIV out of the question, I will share some information. Now, if you really need PIV perhaps you can get silly with your H and ask him if you make him hard, can you play with the result. Seriously, treat it as a playful challenge. Smile at him, giggle and tell him you love both him and a good challenge. If he is not up for play, tell him that he owes you one and that he better get a lot of rest as you have plans for him in the near future. 

There are all kinds of things out there to help men with ED. They can include things like penis pumps (you may even get his doctor to prescribe one, or you can probably buy one at your local pharmacy) to various kinds of penis-rings. Recently there has been a lot of advertising about the Eddie penis clamp, which can be purchased without a prescription. There are also penis sleeves that can fit over the penis to provide a firm PIV experience for you ( A guide to 15 different ones ). Of course all these things require his cooperation, which may be the problem.

To answer your other question, my wife's reluctant willingness to compromise on frequency was orchestrated by the ST we went to, and it did save the marriage.

Again, good luck.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Damn, you are DIFFICULT!!!!!!


Well. . . thanks for that. Yes, I am painfully aware of the irony here. Very, very PAINFULLY aware. Which is why I'm trying to approach this with as much maturity, humility, and kindness as I can. I KNOW I was part of the problem. However, his early rejections of me led to my disinterest in sex which was fueled by some resentment, along with other relationship issues at the time, the responsibility of 2 kids under 2 years of age (which wasn't exactly how we planned things), and some other unmet needs I had from him at that point in time. And as I previously stated, I worked very hard on changing my problems with it. So it's a two-way street in which I will take some responsibility but not all of it. I feel that saying I'm being difficult in the context of the whole of our relationship is unfair. 

And I don't recall saying he never slept with me on our wedding night. But I was heartbroken at the limited number of sexual encounters we had during the honeymoon itself. I do take responsibility for not addressing it sooner. We should have gone to counseling then and we didn't. It might have prevented all the hurt on both sides that followed. 

I have talked to him. I WANT to try and initiate, but it's super difficult with the trauma of the past. Give me some credit here - I'm trying to get past my fears, but it's not helpful to tell someone to just get over it when there is a history of hurt. Some practical advice on how to get past it, on the other hand, would be well-received. In any case, I do think you're correct that he does love me and wants to make me happy, and is likely willing to put in the effort. That's why I'm asking advice on how to make it happen. We're working on the communication part. I'm telling him what I need, but I think it's going to take more than talk.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> Since you asked if lack of an erection makes PIV out of the question, I will share some information.


Thank you so much!! This is very helpful. I guess I'm a little worried about trying to find the compromise only to find it doesn't help the situation, if that makes sense. Knowing there are other options to try if it came to that is helpful. You all are a wealth of knowledge, and I appreciate it!


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> I know it can be difficult not to internalize his lack of interest, but you may have to actively work not to fall into the trap of feeling like there is something wrong with you, as I did.


This is the struggle or at least part of it. It's super hard not to get caught up in it. I'm trying to actively do things to take my mind off of it, but I'm seriously having a hard time. If I'm being honest, I'm a little worried that even if we do come to a compromise of a certain number of times each week, that I will have a hard time with it if he's not enjoying it, too. I guess time will tell for how this works out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Some practical advice on how to get past it, on the other hand, would be well-received.


I think you’re going to have to experiment. Here’s the path I took my starting points were:

Jump into bed when wife is trying to sleep in and start groping her or poking her with my boner. Le epic fail.

Wait until she’s about to jump in the shower and surprise her with the amazing invitation to have sex with me. Fail.

Neither of these worked but it was all I was doing.

I tried doing what a lot of the books suggest which is building up with gradual physical touch, kissing, massages, etc... She will take literally 1hr+ back rubs but it doesn’t make her horny at all I found. So this didn’t work for her although she does like back rubs so I do them outside of a sexual context.

What does make her respond is me being explicit in language about what my desire is for her and what my plans are for her. It was awkward at first but now I’m jabbering away at her like a bad porno from the late 80s and she seems to like it and it makes her more spicy.

Again it was trial and error to get to that point and to be honest she probably pulled it out of me the first time but now it flows easily.

Some things:

Find out when he’s most ready to have sex. Men’s testosterone peaks in the morning. Unfortunately for you, women’s peaks at night. If he has morning wood maybe try then?

Any kind of hot clothing for me is EZ mode like the big red button at Staples. Find out what he likes if he likes anything by trial and error.

Other than that, dunno. Maybe there are some women initiators here on TAM who can chime in?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I'm a little worried that even if we do come to a compromise of a certain number of times each week, that I will have a hard time with it if he's not enjoying it, too. I guess time will tell for how this works out.


If you’re really underserved be careful in brokering a compromise. As I explained earlier my desire gap was massive, over 10:1. So I was thinking a compromise to reduce it to 4:1 would work. It wasn’t even close.

I really believe (although I need more evidence) that if you’re over 3:1 desire gap then the relationship is having problems.

So be honest with what you actually want to be happy. For me it is really every day. So a compromise for me is less than that but more than every 3rd day and then I stay under my 3:1 rule.

Fortunately having good sex is self rewarding such that my wife is having way more sex than she thought she would be comfortable with in the beginning because of the stuff we have learned together.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Find out when he’s most ready to have sex. Men’s testosterone peaks in the morning. Unfortunately for you, women’s peaks at night. If he has morning wood maybe try then?


I VERY much appreciate the suggestions. Right now, morning would be great for me. Just about any time would be great for me. I wasn't going to share this, but maybe I should. Maybe it will help with more ideas knowing some other specific obstacles. He mentioned that part of why he is not initiating as much is that everything has to be "just so" for lack of a better way to put it. I didn't mention this earlier because I'm trying to respect his privacy. . . but well, here I am talking about our sex life anyway. I suppose as long as you don't know either of us personally, it shouldn't matter. So here goes. . .

OCD runs in the family (both on my side and his). None of it is diagnosed by a healthcare professional, but his parents are legitimate hoarders - it's definitely there. We both have rather strong OCD tendencies, as well. In our case, he stated that his OCD tendencies might be getting in the way. For example, he doesn't often want weeknight sex because it's messy and he's already showered for work the next day. Or maybe he hasn't showered and feels like I might think it's gross. While those are just a few examples, his tendencies are pervasive in many areas of life, so I believe him when he tells me that's part of what might be going on, too. We talked about how those things aren't an issue for me, and he wants to do better. But, all that to say, that I don't know if weekday mornings are very likely to work out. If anything, it would be waiting for our kids to go to bed, having sex, and then him having time for a shower. Our kids are teenagers, so it's tougher to get that time just right. 

I'm guessing I'm just going to have to build up some courage to be a little more assertive. He did tell me that he wishes I would put on lingerie more often. I feel weird about it because at this point, it would definitely be signaling "I want sex now." But maybe that's what needs to happen. I just need to find a way to be "OK" if I do get rejected because right now, that feels like it would be world-ending (a little dramatic, I know, but it's where I'm at emotionally). That said, I likely have a 30 minute window on making sure the kids are actually in their rooms, getting on some lingerie, hoping he's in the mood, and giving him time to take a shower. Ugh! But I guess if that's where I need to start, maybe I should. Talking about it here is making me feel like I can do it. Perhaps I just need the continued encouragement you all are providing. Being given ideas makes me feel like this is normal and what others might expect. It's helpful, and I'm appreciative. I also want on the information I can get on how to get him in the mood. He would know best, but I think he's going to feel shy about sharing. 



ccpowerslave said:


> So be honest with what you actually want to be happy.


Honestly, I wish I knew. My best guess is 3 times per week. Maybe 2 if I wasn't already feeling so parched. I don't really know because we've *never *had the frequency of sex I wanted from the beginning (which I don't know what it would have been, but I knew I wasn't getting it). I think if I had been up for it in those days when I wasn't interested, we would have been having sex 2-3 times per week based on his drive at the time, too. But since we weren't because of the other issues, I'm not entirely sure. I could be more honest if I knew myself. In the past few months, I know when it goes over a week is when I start to go into meltdown mode, and I told him that. But I think I'm melting down more right now because I'm thinking about it so much. Thinking about it more makes me want to be with him more, so it's kind of a cycle where I don't know what I would want if I were able to get it close to how often I want it on a normal basis Because if I were satisfied, I wouldn't be thinking about sex nearly as often probably. Not sure if that makes sense to anyone but me. LOL



ccpowerslave said:


> Fortunately having good sex is self rewarding such that my wife is having way more sex than she thought she would be comfortable with in the beginning because of the stuff we have learned together.


That's great to hear for you two!! I think it's hard from my side, as well, because my understanding is it's the opposite for guys. The more often you're already having sex, the less you need more of it. Where for women, having sex is what generally stokes the fire. I know that might be an overgeneralization, but I think that is what is "typical" if such a thing exists. I could only hope that the more sex we have, the more he will want.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> He did tell me that he wishes I would put on lingerie more often. I feel weird about it because at this point, it would definitely be signaling "I want sex now." But maybe that's what needs to happen. I just need to find a way to be "OK" if I do get rejected because right now, that feels like it would be world-ending (a little dramatic, I know, but it's where I'm at emotionally).


This is a good sign to me at least as a non expert because it means his signal chain is working.

As for dealing with the rejection I think it might have to be trial and error again. I think flirting and talking at the edges of things to “test him out” might give you some help there. As an example if you put on your best pieces and he’s like meh... that sounds really not great.

If instead you test him out like, what would you think if you showed up for bed tonight and I was wearing something special for you and he had any kind of positive response then execute that plan and bag your man!

So I will do that with my wife. I will say early in the evening; hey I was thinking maybe if you come to bed tonight I’ll gradually strip you down and XXX. If you did come to bed that is... that is what might happen. So it’s pretty overtly flirty but still I haven’t physically tried to do anything with her yet. If it’s not in the cards she will just say so and then no big deal because I wasn’t worked up about it to start.

If she doesn’t flat out reject it then she’s open to me trying to seduce her and I will go hard on it.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> If instead you test him out like, what would you think if you showed up for bed tonight and I was wearing something special for you and he had any kind of positive response then execute that plan and bag your man!


Thank you a million times over! I think I will try this. Testing the waters maybe exactly what I need to garner the kind of courage it will take me and to hopefully prevent rejection until I gain a little more confidence here. You have been super-helpful! If I could give you "Best Not-a-Therapist-but-Still-an-Expert of the Year Award," I definitely would. And that goes for several others of you on this thread, as well. As much practical advice as I can get with lots of encouragement and re-encouragment may help me to do what it is I need to do here. Thank you again!!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One thing to remind yourself is it takes a while to get into a pursuer/withdrawer dynamic where things are messed up and it takes a while to get back out.

It’s like trying to turn a ship rather than a motorcycle. So don’t get discouraged. It’s easy for me to say that now but if I go back and read my journal on days when I was really feeling the setbacks it doesn’t look very easy; and I had those days for many months.


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## Quad73 (May 10, 2021)

"In our case, he stated that his OCD tendencies might be getting in the way. For example, he doesn't often want weeknight sex because it's messy and he's already showered for work the next day. Or maybe he hasn't showered and feels like I might think it's gross. While those are just a few examples, his tendencies are pervasive in many areas of life, so I believe him when he tells me that's part of what might be going on, too. We talked about how those things aren't an issue for me, and 

he wants to do better."

--------

Tap into this. He seems willing. 

Give some thought to how you might turn these OCD tendencies into a solution vs a hindrance. 

Can you attach his obsessive tendency to your sex life? Likewise re any compulsive tendencies? 

E. G. Scheduled sex? A sex routine he creates?... 

Get creative, try to see if you can channel his OCD for your mutual benefit.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

There aren't any magic fixes, just trying different things, as ccpowerslave suggested. Things we have tried with degrees of success are scheduled sex days, random groping each other, especially when kids aren't looking, using a separate app where we can send pics and engage in some "naughty" flirting. It's hard to predict what will be most effective for you. 

You can request that he initiate, but as HD, you have to become comfortable with the idea of initiating more, which again, is a bit trickier as a woman. Kids make sex more challenging, but you also have to train them to respect the locked door rule. The OCD seems like it would make for some extra complications; he might need to have that treated, and like Quad73 said, you also might so be able to use it to your advantage somehow. 

Work stress can have a bad effect on sex drive. Maybe some men can comment more to that. Learning how to address work stress and having better work/home boundaries helped us some, as well. 

Like ccpowerslave also said, it takes time, so if you get discouraged, acknowledge that, but don't stay stuck there. I think whatever you can do to improve your self-confidence also helps. 



ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I think it's hard from my side, as well, because my understanding is it's the opposite for guys. The more often you're already having sex, the less you need more of it. Where for women, having sex is what generally stokes the fire. I know that might be an overgeneralization,


You know, I'd never thought of this! Very interesting point. I've found that having more increased the desire on his end but only to a point, at which the curve flattened. I'd be interested to know how that works for most men. I'd say I agree with you about more sex increasing the desire, for myself. I've not heard that about other women, at least as far as my social circles, but I think I did read it somewhere.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> I'd be interested to know how that works for most men.


I can’t say I am the same as most but with a willing partner I will literally have sex until my privates stop working due to chafing, too long of a refractory period, or just the inability to have an orgasm.

So my tank always has room up until the point where I physically can’t do it anymore. It turns out for me right now that is about 3 times in 4 hours or so. Achieving this state where I am not able to do it is something I am quite willing to do by the way it just doesn’t happen very often.

There are studies on more of an upper bound based on biology for men and IIRC it is 5 days which is how long a man’s sperm can live inside the vagina. According to these sources a man should be biologically inclined to maintain that.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Kids make sex more challenging, but you also have to train them to respect the locked door rule.


Thankfully, our kids are pretty well trained. They're great kids in general. They do come to tell us goodnight before they go to their rooms for the night, so that makes timing a little different. They know not to open a door without knocking (and we would lock it, too), but they would wonder what is going on if they couldn't see us before bed. It's kind of a tradition in our home.

With regard to randomly groping each other, we actually already do that on a very frequent and consistent basis. In fact, that makes it all a little more confusing for me. My thinking is that would normally lead to sex later, but it certainly doesn't always. Maybe it needs to be more focused as it usually involves one of us smacking the other's butt, though, rather than anything more overtly sexual.



Twodecades said:


> I've found that having more increased the desire on his end but only to a point, at which the curve flattened.


I'm curious if you don't mind sharing how frequent it started out and how much it improved, and how long it remained an improved situation? Sounds like it might still not be where you'd like? While I know each couple is different, I find it beneficial to hear others' stories. 



ccpowerslave said:


> So my tank always has room up until the point where I physically can’t do it anymore.


This is so interesting! I wonder if my husband would have been like this at some point. Now that I've had time to reflect on our talk the other night, he told me he isn't sure what's "ideal" with regard to frequency for him and that it varies, which I can understand as I definitely have some swings in interest based on biological factors, although I'm generally at least somewhat interested even when I'm not actively hoping it will happen. But, when I asked him, he indicated that he wasn't sure what number to give because he was worried it might be too high or too low. I told him I really just want to see where we're both at so we have a starting point. It sounds like he's concerned about setting unrealistic expectations. But, I feel like I haven't really got an answer on what he would like. He did mention that he doesn't want to get rejected, either, and there was plenty of that happening for a while all those years ago, I am ashamed to say. So, it looks like it may take some time to uncover what he's really feeling, too.

In any case. . . for anyone still reading this. I think I'm going to try to be brave and initiate sex tonight, putting on some lingerie after the kids go to bed and hopefully before he tries to get in the shower. As I've mentioned, this is VERY hard for me, so any encouragement or prayers from any believers would be great! I'm hoping stepping out of my comfort zone right now will make it easier to do in the future, as well. I guess I've just got to try to increase the frequency by making the advances myself for now and see where that lands us.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> As I've mentioned, this is VERY hard for me, so any encouragement or prayers from any believers would be great


Well I’m a believer. It takes courage to show vulnerability like you’re going to.

Another thing to consider as an idea is to be honest with each other when you’re being rejected. My wife would give me answers that weren’t the real reason and I asked her to not do that anymore.

For example yesterday I tried to drag her into bed because she was going to stay up and work.

I was being flirty and trying to get her to hop in just for a minute or two because I’m cold (which she knew was BS). Earlier in the day she complained she had a headache. She took Tylenol. She said she still had her headache and it was a real headache and not a horse crap excuse.

Ok, no worries. 

I went to bed and passed out in 5 minutes. When I eventually caught up with her in the morning I asked if her head felt better and she gave me a “basically yes”.

Anything like this if there is a real physical problem that’s just how it is. So you can be as seductive as you want but if there is a physical problem it’s going to fizzle. In this case it is important for the rejector to be honest with what is going on with them. I find this makes it a lot better.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

@ComplicatedMarriage, I would say it would average once per week, mostly my initiating, to now 2-3 times per week where he tries to initiate (but not always) once or maaaaybe twice per week, but that's if events (monthly cycle, kids, work, etc. etc.) don't get in the way. It can still fluctuate. Sometimes we even hit two days in a row or even in a day, but that's usually my initiating. We don't generally wait for kids to go to sleep. We just try to be quiet. I guess I am that rare woman that would like frequency of every day with him initiating at least 1/2 the time. I think sex is very important in a marriage, but it isn't the most important thing. For us, God first, our personal/relationship growth and integrity second, and sex is a close third. Admittedly, sometimes it's first on the list, especially for me.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Man, every spouse should just default to yes, and the world would be so much happier 👍👍🙂🙂.

I've always known I'm in the lucky freaky sex almost anytime zone, but now getting the depth of that being uncommon 🙄🙄.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Thankfully, our kids are pretty well trained. They're great kids in general. They do come to tell us goodnight before they go to their rooms for the night, so that makes timing a little different. They know not to open a door without knocking (and we would lock it, too), but they would wonder what is going on if they couldn't see us before bed. It's kind of a tradition in our home.
> 
> With regard to randomly groping each other, we actually already do that on a very frequent and consistent basis. In fact, that makes it all a little more confusing for me. My thinking is that would normally lead to sex later, but it certainly doesn't always. Maybe it needs to be more focused as it usually involves one of us smacking the other's butt, though, rather than anything more overtly sexual.
> 
> ...


OP I'm sorry if I'm being a bit ......

You do know if there isn't a firm penis usually oral stimulation or manual stimulation can fix that right?
He may have some ED or just need more stimulation to be excited.
Men are visual so yes lingerie might help.
Also if he's OCD you can play into that by scheduling sex. Some couples find that having a schedule makes it easier for them to fit sex into schedules and also to keep the HD from going crazy and the LD from feeling constant pressure.

It can also help him to know it is on a schedule because that schedule can mean he'll know how much time to set aside and when to shower and such. So if you know you want it Wednesday morning you both set your alarms for 30 minutes earlier and have it then he can shower. 

Have you two ever tried toys? He can do a lot of pleasuring without a firm penis. Also some toys can help him with penis issues. There are rings with help keep a firm penis. There are butt plugs which massage the prostrate.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

Anastasia6 said:


> You do know if there isn't a firm penis usually oral stimulation or manual stimulation can fix that right?
> He may have some ED or just need more stimulation to be excited.


Actually, I didn't know that for sure, so thank you for mentioning it. I'm feeling more naive every minute I spend on this message board! I guess I just thought if he wasn't in the mood, he wouldn't be able to get an erection and it would eliminate PIV sex if we were scheduling things or if I'm initiating when he wasn't really wanting sex. I don't really know because we haven't tried much when he wasn't. I don't _think_ he has any type of ED, but I'm clearly not in the know on a lot of stuff here. While I would be good with other methods sometimes, I probably prefer PIV for the majority of encounters.

With regard to toys, yes, he actually bought some a few years back. We have since visited a couple of stores together on special outings. I feel like half of what's out there all seems the same (as in, it's just another way to package a vibrator), but I didn't know about the rings until someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. It sounds like if he's willing, that he can likely get an erection regardless.

We talked briefly about a schedule a few meltdowns ago (me melting down and telling him how frustrated I've been). He didn't seem to love the idea, but maybe it's worth revisiting if all else fails. I really think he's willing to try things to make me happy, but I also have a hard time getting him to talk about things even if I'm brave enough to bring it up. I definitely appreciate the ideas and the detailed information. Who thought a woman would need a book on how to turn a man on, but it appears I do!


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> Man, every spouse should just default to yes, and the world would be so much happier


I tend to agree with this EXCEPT that saying yes over and over when I was unhappy in the relationship caused an aversion for me that I had to work to overcome. That said, I think with the right communication and attitude, that might not have happened. I really wish great pre-marital counseling was easy to find that included how to relate to each other in sex. We had premarital counseling, but there was little, if any, guidance on sex. If I had been better at communicating with him my frustrations and also knowing when it might have been better to say "no, but let's reschedule for. . ." that might have prevented the aversion and been happier for him. Also, if I had allowed myself to yes when I wasn't in the mood but found ways to get in the mood or relax, that would have helped also.

So. . . on the whole, I totally agree that spouses should just say "YES!" whenever feasible!


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> Who thought a woman would need a book on how to turn a man on, but it appears I do!


I would have thought! Lol! But again, I don't feel like the norm. 

Re: erection, often the manual or oral stimulation will work, but sometimes, if he is too tired, stressed with work, or feels pressured, it's possible it won't. It doesn't mean be has ED. Apparently any kind of mental stress can have an impact, and that can (doesn't mean it will) interfere with getting firm, if he isn't the one initiating. IF that happens, tread very lightly and don't take it personally. It may not happen at all, but how you handle it if it does makes a big difference.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

The only time I have ever had a problem getting an erection is if I was on substances so strong I was barely conscious or within my refractory period. 

Stress has never done it for me, when the time comes my equipment works although maybe extreme stress like someone pointing a loaded gun at your head that would be a problem.

Penis rings I will use occasionally because if you can get a really tight one at least for me I can last longer but it also will firm you up if you have bad erection quality. Those ones linked earlier in the thread that don’t pinch your urethra sound good I will probably pick them up and try them out. My tightest one I actually bruised my equipment trying to get it off and I felt the constricting and it wasn’t good.


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## Twodecades (Apr 4, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Stress has never done it for me, when the time comes my equipment works although maybe extreme stress like someone pointing a loaded gun at your head that would be a problem.


Maybe that is the difference between being an HD vs an LD guy? I've read that performance anxiety usually hits men at some point in life, even if it isn't a permanent or even repeat issue. I can't remember where I read it, but the article was quoting doctors' feedback, as most men aren't going to talk to their buddies about it but will admit it to their doctor only because they need to for a Viagra script. IDK if that's true or not.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Twodecades said:


> I've read that performance anxiety usually hits men at some point in life, even if it isn't a permanent or even repeat issue.


Maybe I’m not old enough or I’m lucky. I’m on meds that can give you ED but I guess my junk is so strong it cannot be stopped by a mere side effect.

I have had problems with PE as recently as last February. Generally I had that only occasionally but this past February it was embarrassing. It didn’t stop me from having sex it was just sad. For that I am taking St. John’s Wort 300mg 3x a day. Now I last too long 🤷‍♂️


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

I just wanted to give a quick update for those of you who were so kind to encourage me and offer some possible solutions or information. Things have been going well the last couple of weeks. The night I planned to initiate didn't go as planned, of course - even the best-behaved teenagers can throw a wrench in things when they've got their own things going on that they need parental help with. . . But voicing my frustration about the circumstances (not toward him - just communicating it) and what I had planned actually got things started.

Buying some lingerie and mustering some courage to initiate a few times definitely seems to have helped, as well. Just showing him the lingerie (didn't even try it on the first time) put things in motion (and then I tried it on another night for him 😊). I don't know if it will continue to be good months down the road, but for now, I have to say I'm pretty happy and feeling hopeful. I'm hoping with some communication and additional effort on my part, it will remain good. Also, I think it helps for me to lurk around this message board and read a bit as I think it helps me feel more courage, for whatever reason, to initiate, talk about it, etc. So, I'm hopeful that we're on a positive path and moving forward. Time will tell, but I'm glad I took some initiative toward trying to make things better and that you were there to help and listen! Thank you all again for taking the time to give some thoughtful responses to my post!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I just wanted to give a quick update for those of you who were so kind to encourage me and offer some possible solutions or information. Things have been going well the last couple of weeks. The night I planned to initiate didn't go as planned, of course - even the best-behaved teenagers can throw a wrench in things when they've got their own things going on that they need parental help with. . . But voicing my frustration about the circumstances (not toward him - just communicating it) and what I had planned actually got things started.
> 
> Buying some lingerie and mustering some courage to initiate a few times definitely seems to have helped, as well. Just showing him the lingerie (didn't even try it on the first time) put things in motion (and then I tried it on another night for him 😊). I don't know if it will continue to be good months down the road, but for now, I have to say I'm pretty happy and feeling hopeful. I'm hoping with some communication and additional effort on my part, it will remain good. Also, I think it helps for me to lurk around this message board and read a bit as I think it helps me feel more courage, for whatever reason, to initiate, talk about it, etc. So, I'm hopeful that we're on a positive path and moving forward. Time will tell, but I'm glad I took some initiative toward trying to make things better and that you were there to help and listen! Thank you all again for taking the time to give some thoughtful responses to my post!


Glad it is working for you.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Twodecades said:


> Maybe that is the difference between being an HD vs an LD guy? I've read that performance anxiety usually hits men at some point in life, even if it isn't a permanent or even repeat issue. I can't remember where I read it, but the article was quoting doctors' feedback, as most men aren't going to talk to their buddies about it but will admit it to their doctor only because they need to for a Viagra script. IDK if that's true or not.


As someone with personal experience, I will say that everything in this post is spot on. Performance Anxiety can arrive anytime erection fails to happen, even once. So then the next opportunity, man is wondering in his head "are things going to work this time?" Which of course is a formula for failure again, cause mind isn't "in the moment". A feedback loop that has to be stopped. And, if the woman reacts in the wrong way, like implies "I am not attractive to you anymore" it just makes matters worse.

I have always been pretty HD, but when wife's HRT changed some dosages her testosterone levels increased, frequency went to 2-3 times a day. Every day. I am in my mid-seventies. So, started having failed sessions every few days. My wife was very understanding and accommodating, we handled things by other means. But it is *devastating  *for the male in that situation. I immediately went to my doctor, then an endo, and then a urologist, and worked the problem. Viagra was not the solution. After blood work discovered my free T levels were low. It took 3 months to get the dosage dialed in, and now all it good.

Sorry for TJ. End


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I just wanted to give a quick update for those of you who were so kind to encourage me and offer some possible solutions or information. Things have been going well the last couple of weeks. The night I planned to initiate didn't go as planned, of course - even the best-behaved teenagers can throw a wrench in things when they've got their own things going on that they need parental help with. . . But voicing my frustration about the circumstances (not toward him - just communicating it) and what I had planned actually got things started.
> 
> Buying some lingerie and mustering some courage to initiate a few times definitely seems to have helped, as well. Just showing him the lingerie (didn't even try it on the first time) put things in motion (and then I tried it on another night for him 😊). I don't know if it will continue to be good months down the road, but for now, I have to say I'm pretty happy and feeling hopeful. I'm hoping with some communication and additional effort on my part, it will remain good. Also, I think it helps for me to lurk around this message board and read a bit as I think it helps me feel more courage, for whatever reason, to initiate, talk about it, etc. So, I'm hopeful that we're on a positive path and moving forward. Time will tell, but I'm glad I took some initiative toward trying to make things better and that you were there to help and listen! Thank you all again for taking the time to give some thoughtful responses to my post!


Have tge lingerie on when he comes home under your clothes. Give him a little sneak peak during the evening. If my wife was dressed in a teddy under her clothes during dinner etc. would drive me craxy. Especially if she had a skirt on and she flashed me occasionally.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> One thing to remind yourself is it takes a while to get into a pursuer/withdrawer dynamic where things are messed up and it takes a while to get back out.
> 
> It’s like trying to turn a ship rather than a motorcycle. So don’t get discouraged. It’s easy for me to say that now but if I go back and read my journal on days when I was really feeling the setbacks it doesn’t look very easy; and I had those days for many months.


For some in ltrs, this is non essential drama though, not all couples are still hung up on worrying about sex, too little or too much. 

For example, sex is important to us, and the most efficient way to not waste time or emotional stress I or she says lets get naked, and off we go.

No fuss no muss. Frequency is usually twice on Saturday, once or twice Sunday, and 3 of the 5 work days. 
And we're talking great sex, no starfish. Wide variations, including oral by both, and anal time to time, and lots of physical closeness. 

Simple approaches can work.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> Simple approaches can work.


So you had a problem where you felt the frequency was off and your solution is you just ask for it and she says yes every time and it is good?

If that worked for everyone I think dead bedrooms would be a thing of the past.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> So you had a problem where you felt the frequency was off and your solution is you just ask for it and she says yes every time and it is good?
> 
> If that worked for everyone I think dead bedrooms would be a thing of the past.


I guess in a nutshell that's it mostly. We've never suffered too much with frequency other than when I had back surgery, very invasive, took a year and more to get through it. That and other surgeries couples go through helped us realize the value of healthy time we all have, and not to be too wasteful spending time playing guessing games if either want to have sex.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

But it goes both ways. All she has to do is ask, too 👍👍👍


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## LATERILUS79 (Apr 1, 2021)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I have a long story that I will try to condense as much as possible. My husband and I were both virgins going into marriage by choice because of our faith. As such, I was very ready for a healthy and robust sex life once we got married. The emotional pain started on the honeymoon when he just didn't seem all that interested. He has since said that he "was in [his] head" but has never really communicated what went on then. The lack of communication from back then has created some scarring for me. I tried talking to him about it back then and wanted to go to counseling. We never went for a number of reasons, and I spent many hopeless nights in tears wondering if I was the only woman in the world whose husband didn't want sex with her. This was nearly 20 years ago.
> 
> Then, I made a bad decision (not the worse one mind you, but a bad one to try to fill the emotional hole). I decided to try and take my mind off it and instead pursue having kids. After my first child was born, I was in a lot of pain physically and was EXHAUSTED. Suddenly he had a sex drive now that I just physically couldn't. I got pregnant again when my youngest was barely 9 months old. I was more exhausted. I didn't want sex. He wasn't helping around the house or with the kids like I needed, and sex was the very last thing on my mind. I was resentlful that he was meeting none of my needs but wanted this one of his met. I figured if it was that important, couldn't he give me the slightest bit of relief with chores, etc.? Our marriage went through some tough times (not just because of the sex - I was resentful feeling like the household slave). We survived it. Made it to the other side. Health problems also followed having children for me which made sex even less of a priority in my mind. Despite all of that, I still tried to be available for him as much as I could. In some ways it was a mistake because I think I quite literally developed an aversion to sex. If he so much as gave me a hug, I would feel disgusted thinking that sexual pursual was sure to follow.
> 
> ...


i feel for you. I definitely understand your plight as I’ve been there as well. I think you’ve gotten a lot of good advice here and I’m happy you’ve been turning a corner as of late with your husband.

I just had two things to add:

1. I’m trying to be empathic to your plight with rejection. It’s difficult. As a man, I am used to rejection (as probably most men are). It rolls off my back like water, but that doesn’t give me the right to tell you to be the same way. I can imagine it is hard to put yourself out there if you aren’t used to it. 
I do believe you need to find a compromise within yourself. Push your limits a little bit, but not so much that it would devastate you. You say your drop “hints”. Gently, I’ll say this; I would venture a bet your hints are not seen. I personally believe that many women have difficulty with this. On average, I would say women drop hints that other women would notice, and on average I’d say men do not notice. The lingerie was a good idea. That’s much more noticeable. You could also try sitting on the couch with him. Snuggle up to him. Kiss his neck and ear. Rub your hands on his body. Nothing crazy. See if he responds. Almost all men I know respond to touch.

2. your original post was difficult to follow. If I were your husband, I’d have a hard time picking up your varying sex drive over the years. High drive at first, low drive around having kids, high drive in 40s. I would be utterly confused. Again, this would go back to needing more a direct form of communication. If I were in that situation, I would have picked up that my wife was LD and didn’t really want to be with me during those child bearing years. So your most recent change back to HD would confuse me. He may still believe that you are LD from your child bearing years.

I could be way off base with all of this, just something extra to think about. I know you mentioned he doesn’t like these kinds of talks and I definitely know how that is. It adds an extra layer of challenge.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

LATERILUS79 said:


> your original post was difficult to follow. If I were your husband, I’d have a hard time picking up your varying sex drive over the years. High drive at first, low drive around having kids, high drive in 40s. I would be utterly confused. Again, this would go back to needing more a direct form of communication. If I were in that situation, I would have picked up that my wife was LD and didn’t really want to be with me during those child bearing years. So your most recent change back to HD would confuse me. He may still believe that you are LD from your child bearing years.


Thank you for your input, as well! I tend to agree with you on hinting and find what you say to be true.

I wouldn't say so much that I was LD during the childbearing years (or maybe I was due to hormones - who knows?) but more so that things were not great in our relationship from my perspective during those years. I forced myself to have sex for the sake of the relationship, and I don't think that was healthy either and definitely lead to some problems. It's hard to want to have sex with someone who you feel is ignoring your needs in other areas while at the same time feeling extremely fatigued due to health issues. I also became unexpectedly pregnant again not terribly long after my first child was born, and she was a difficult baby. That may have played into it some, as well (not wanting to get pregnant yet again).

But, I have definitely made it known in recent months that I feel things are good in our relationship, and I'm ready and available! So, I'm hoping that's reduced any confusion, along with telling him that I want more! In any case, I do appreciate both your empathy and your input. I'm hoping we're on a positive track now. And I definitely agree with you that I need to work on pushing myself out of my comfort zone a little at a time. I'm very hopeful that I can move past those fears. The more positive interactions I have with him being receptive, the more likely I could deal with a rejection here or there if I know it's not me and rather just timing or something like that. It's those early years of rejection when we were young in our 20's and should have been ready to have LOTS of sex that messed me up. I've internalized that, and it's made it hard to not stay in that place of feeling unwanted. But hopefully we are closer to being on the same page now and moving forward!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I have talked to him. I WANT to try and initiate, but it's super difficult with the trauma of the past. Give me some credit here - I'm trying to get past my fears, but it's not helpful to tell someone to just get over it when there is a history of hurt. Some practical advice on how to get past it, on the other hand, would be well-received. In any case, I do think you're correct that he does love me and wants to make me happy, and is likely willing to put in the effort. That's why I'm asking advice on how to make it happen. We're working on the communication part. I'm telling him what I need, but I think it's going to take more than talk.


I haven't read this whole thread, but I got to this comment and have some thoughts. Obviously your marriage has allowed you to experience a variety of situations from your husband having so many changes with his libido, but the result seems to have created a great deal of volatility towards how the dynamics of intimacy works in your marriage. 

If initiating sexual intimacy creates anxiety one way to overcome that (often recommended by therapists) is to schedule intimacy. This removes all the anxiety over who initiates and why in order for you to work together as a couple to strengthen your skills and communication regarding the quality of intimacy in your marriage. 

If you try and schedule things, more often than not it feels unnatural and perhaps a little forced. But therein lies the challenges of working together as a team to learn how to better love one another and know how to make each other feel satisfied. It can actually be very rewarding and make your relationship feel very empowered to know that you can chose a moment to start from zero and build up the skills to really pleasure one another as well as learn how to communicate your desires more effectively while exploring that as a couple. 

In my opinion I want to call you out as I think you are using sex for validation of the relationship. As in you worry about the quality of your husband's desire for you so you want to observe him initiate and make sure he climaxes pleasurably in order to feel satisfied yourself. That is going to create problems and more anxiety if that is the case. His libido needs to be free as opposed to being placed under scrutiny with you questioning if he climaxed or not.

So if you schedule things, I would strongly advise you to focus and alternate on the idea of one-sided-sessions. Schedule a moment when pleasure will only be for you, a different moment that pleasure will be just for him, and also moments where you will attempt mutual pleasure. A good place to start is to also schedule moments of nonsexual intimacy to practice being vulnerable. This would be a moment where you both snuggle completely nude and enjoy back rubs while specifically avoiding sexual pleasure and stimulation. During this time you can work on communication and plan ideas that might work for an upcoming one-sided session. This will help reduce anxiety when that moment occurs since some ideas and mental preparation has had a chance to occur beforehand. 

Some ideas for one sided sessions can include different types of sensation play. For example experiment with subtle changes with hot and cold touches in ways that should be pleasurable. Another may be to experiment with different types of lubrication like coconut oil, water-based lubes, or silicone lubes (astroglide) that work underwater (like for a handjob in a hot tub or jacuzzi). You can also experiment with sensory deprivation like using blindfolds, latex, gloves or numbing creams to prolong pleasure in a way that teases by purposely avoiding climax during a session (fun way to challenge a partner while making failure into a reward). 
If you haven't already you should also work on the idea of mutual masturbation so that you can observe each other during self pleasure. This should be scheduled as well and perhaps it could be scheduled when you are apart by means of phone sex. First with audio only, later adding video, and at some point perhaps even play around with purchasing each other some novelties to try for the first time. Then work towards trying it in person if you are able. This helps the two of you as a couple explore the dynamic of taking responsibility for your own pleasure during intimacy for the purpose of sharing it with each other. 

Ultimately good sexual intimacy occurs in the mind. Less friction and more curiosity in ways that seem counterintuitively intriguing. As a couple you have to build some skills to unlock and explore that with one another. 

Best wishes, 
Badsanta


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

badsanta said:


> If initiating sexual intimacy creates anxiety one way to overcome that (often recommended by therapists) is to schedule intimacy. This removes all the anxiety over who initiates and why in order for you to work together as a couple to strengthen your skills and communication regarding the quality of intimacy in your marriage.


Thank you for your input! I'm for scheduling, but I know he's not a fan. If things continue to be difficult (we seem to be making some progress, but I'm definitely still on an emotional roller coaster atm), I will definitely bring it up again and ask for that as a compromise. Unfortunately, I did not get a straight answer when I asked what his ideal frequency would be, which is disappointing because it was super hard for me to ask the question to begin with. I feel like that would be a good place to start to find something we are both comfortable with in terms of scheduling and/or to give me an idea of how frequently my potential initiating is likely to be accepted, but I still don't know where his head is at on this. Still working on the communication side of things. . .



badsanta said:


> In my opinion I want to call you out as I think you are using sex for validation of the relationship. As in you worry about the quality of your husband's desire for you so you want to observe him initiate and make sure he climaxes pleasurably in order to feel satisfied yourself. That is going to create problems and more anxiety if that is the case. His libido needs to be free as opposed to being placed under scrutiny with you questioning if he climaxed or not.


Yes and no. I think you're right in that PART of why I would like him to initiate is for some validation (action always speaks louder than words, so it is wrong to want my husband to show me he wants/loves me?), but it is also because it is super hard for me due to past scars. 

But, I am in total agreement about him being free. The comment I made about the lack of a noticeable orgasm was both because I want it to be enjoyable for him and because I would think that more enjoyable sex will lead to more sex. The reason I brought it up is not that it is validation for the relationship itself, as I do believe he loves me, but rather validation that he is happy in bed. It's important to me that he is also happy with our sex life, both because I want us to have more sex and because I want him to be happy, as well. I've seen lots of mention of "duty sex" or "starfishing," and the general consensus seems to be that that type of sex might be worse than no sex at all. I think I feel the same way, while still having a very deep desire for sex with my husband. I would like an enthusiastic (or at least generally happy) participant. I don't know what's "normal" with regard to men climaxing as I've only ever been with my husband, so I'm trying to gauge whether the change is concerning. It's never been an issue in the past, and so I didn't know if it was relevant. It hasn't been issue for the last several encounters, for what that's worth.



badsanta said:


> So if you schedule things, I would strongly advise you to focus and alternate on the idea of one-sided-sessions. Schedule a moment when pleasure will only be for you, a different moment that pleasure will be just for him, and also moments where you will attempt mutual pleasure.


I'm going to be super honest here. I think I feel VERY uncomfortable with him pleasuring me in a one-sided-session. I've been pondering how I would feel if he were only having sex out of obligation. I realize that's not what this one-sided advice is about, and I understand the idea and why it might be beneficial. But that doesn't make me any less uncomfortable with it, which makes me wonder if it would be helpful or do more damage to my already fractured emotional state. I want him to get something out of it, as well. And I realize that if we're alternating, he would. But I don't know if I'm ready to be that vulnerable in that way? I will think about it, though. I find that reading and thinking about these things makes me more apt to be willing to try. So maybe I just need time to warm up to the idea (assuming he is also willing). After all, I have initiated several times since my original post despite my fears after spending some time on this forum and thinking about it. Also, I AM willing to try intimate non-sexual acts. I think intimacy, in general, is what I am craving, but I enjoy the sex aspect, as well. I'd be happy to have some of both.

And, I'm going to put something else that is very honest and vulnerable out there. I'm also super scared of feeling like a freak. Being a woman with a higher drive. . . well, it's hard to overcome the fears that he may think I'm crazy for wanting sex more. It's a tough and vulnerable place to be where I'm absolutely terrified that he will see me differently because of this, but I also know that the status quo isn't working. I've shared these things with him, and he has so far been very reassuring. But it's difficult to not allow that idea to linger in the back of my mind that he might think something is somehow wrong with me that I want more sex than he does.

So, there's that. I appreciate the detailed information and ideas on how to make this work. We definitely need less friction and anxiety with regard to getting things started, and however difficult the advice seems, I appreciate both the advice and that it was given in a non-judgemental way.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> I don't know what's "normal" with regard to men climaxing as I've only ever been with my husband, so I'm trying to gauge whether the change is concerning.


99.999% of the time and the other 0.001% it was to spare her parts.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> And, I'm going to put something else that is very honest and vulnerable out there. I'm also super scared of feeling like a freak. Being a woman with a higher drive. . . well, it's hard to overcome the fears that he may think I'm crazy for wanting sex more.


At the end of the day almost all marriages struggle with mismatched drives where one of the two (sometimes males and sometimes female) will have a much higher drive than their partner. For even the healthiest couples emotionally this dynamic can create some rather toxic scenarios that can feel overwhelming and demoralizing. So in that sense, you have a serious challenge given your background. 

The one thing you are not is a freak, even if your spouse gets frustrated with your mismatched desired and says hurtful things. What you are is completely normal and you are going through what every other couple is struggling with in their marriages as well. 

I strongly advise you that whenever you sense your spouse being frustrated don't allow yourself to get upset and feel hurt. Instead try and be patient, ask him for help and try to share your feelings regarding the things you fear. You are also going to have to overcome your concerns over him possibly having sex with you out of obligation, because that probably will happen in some form or fashion (as it does in every other marriage). The important thing is to simply let him tell you how he feels about that and do not allow yourself to decide his feelings in your own mind. 

Regarding sex out of obligation, I asked my wife how she feels about that and this is what she told me, "I don't mind sharing my body with you in a loving way when I know you will really appreciate it." So now when that happens I honestly do try and appreciate it as a loving act of kindness which makes me feel even more accepted. It is easy to have sex with someone when you want to have sex. But having sex when your not exactly in the mood takes an act of love which should be recognized and appreciated as opposed to something that is rejected and upsetting.


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

badsanta said:


> The one thing you are not is a freak, even if your spouse gets frustrated with your mismatched desired and says hurtful things. What you are is completely normal and you are going through what every other couple is struggling with in their marriages as well.


Thank you! I appreciate your comments. This is going to be a struggle for me. I do think it would be helpful if I could get some counseling to try to deal with my emotions here, but right now, although we do relatively well financially we have a lot of other financial obligations that would make that difficult at this point in time (two kids who will be going to college in the next 1-2 years, counseling for my kids, etc., all take some priority in my mind). This is going to be something I have to work on for myself. Not allowing myself to feel hurt is hard. I've always been an extremely emotional person, and it took me a long time to accept that I'm just made that way. Now I accept that's just who I am. And while I manage my emotions well enough to function generally in life, sometimes I don't know how to move on when I feel extremely emotional or hurt about something like this. I'm going to have to work on that.



badsanta said:


> Regarding sex out of obligation, I asked my wife how she feels about that and this is what she told me, "I don't mind sharing my body with you in a loving way when I know you will really appreciate it." So now when that happens I honestly do try and appreciate it as a loving act of kindness which makes me feel even more accepted.


As long as he will approach it with this attitude, I think I can accept that. I don't want to build resentment in him. I allowed resentment to build up when he was the one wanting more sex, and that was not at all healthy. I was lucky enough (or maybe not considering where I am today? lol) that I was able to overcome that. I've decided that I've got be an adult here, start initiating when I really want to have sex, and if it becomes a lot for him, perhaps that will be an opening to having more conversations about what we each want and how to find a compromise that works for both of us. As hard as it is for me, maybe if I take the pressure off of him by initiating, we can get to a good place.

So, I'm still on an emotional roller coaster right now, but I also have hope. If you or anyone reading this knows of any good books on coping with mismatched sex drives (particularly when the woman has a higher drive), coping with difficult emotions, etc., I love to know. I've read all of the links that others have posted in this thread and definitely feel there was some good information to go back to when I do have conversations with my husband. I think educating one's self is a great way to learn to manage difficult situations, so I'm all about any resources anyone can point me toward. And. . . I'd love resources on how to make things more pleasurable for a man. I think those are probably few and far between? Seems like most of the literature focuses on women. IF he can also find enjoyment in helping meet my needs, all the better.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

ComplicatedMarriage said:


> If you or anyone reading this knows of any good books on coping with mismatched sex drives (particularly when the woman has a higher drive), coping with difficult emotions, etc., I love to know. I've read all of the links that others have posted in this thread and definitely feel there was some good information to go back to when I do have conversations with my husband. I think educating one's self is a great way to learn to manage difficult situations, so I'm all about any resources anyone can point me toward. And. . . I'd love resources on how to make things more pleasurable for a man. I think those are probably few and far between? Seems like most of the literature focuses on women. IF he can also find enjoyment in helping meet my needs, all the better.


One thing it for sure is that there is a ton of crap out there when it comes to books on sexuality. You mentioned that most books about improving pleasure are written to help men improve pleasure for the female, which obviously that is not going to interest you. While you may find books on how to pleasure a man, you would need a book on how to please a man with inherently lower desire than that of yourself. You are not going to find that book in my opinion. Advice from other men on how to pleasure a man (including from me) will likely be problematic because it comes from a perspective of having a rather active libido. 

Perhaps the only advice that I think would help you is a lesson I learned in college when I took an advanced art class. The professor absolutely hated the bureaucracy of his job and the fact that he was required to give us a syllabus that outlined exactly what was required to get an A. He claimed that in art that this can be no exact process that one should follow in order to get an A. So he required that class to "fail" at least three projects in order to get an A. He said if you refuse to try diligently and with honest effort to fail, you will never learn and you will never progress. OMG that ended up being the best experience I ever have had in my life taking that class. The harder everyone challenged themselves to fail at a project, the more spectacular they succeeded. I remember two students slathering up a bunch up paint on their canvases and then started jousting one another with them, and the end result were these amazing gestures on the canvas that were unimaginably cool looking. Essentially everyone was required to get outside of their comfort zones to creatively seek out failure and were rewarded for doing it. 

So using the example of how to get an A in art class, how would you apply that same philosophy to sexuality in your marriage? How would you seek out failure in a way that will be fun and playful. An interesting example of that is orgasm tease and denial. Challenge your husband to not have an orgasm and you take the challenge as well. The whole purpose is to try and make one another fail at that challenge and have fun doing it. ...and fail you will!  Another fun challenge is to try and see if you can get one another to completely relax during orgasm and completely avoid any and all muscle contractions. ...you will fail at that too!!


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## ComplicatedMarriage (Jun 3, 2021)

badsanta said:


> Perhaps the only advice that I think would help you is a lesson I learned in college when I took an advanced art class.


Thanks! That's a good analogy you gave. Thank you for comments! I do appreciate all the help you all have been.


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