# Wife and Coworker



## DCM

Our marriage has been progressively getting worse over the past few months. She has been getting extremely angry and blowing up on over normal irritating situations.

One night a few weeks ago we were going to grab dinner and see a local improv show. After picking her up at work we were on our way to the restaurant when she decided she didn't like how I handled a situation that occurred almost a month ago. Things spiraled out of control like they have been doing. Instead of going to the show, I took her back to her car at work. She still wanted to argue with me and was extremely irate. I told her to get out of the car because I wanted to go home.

I left her at her car at about 6:00 pm and she didn't get home until after midnight. I called and text during this time with no response until she was almost home. I ended up sleeping on the couch because I was getting tired and frustrated with her frequent blow ups.

She never came back to me to apologize so I stubbornly gave her the silent treatment over the next 6 days. I began sleeping in the guest room. 

She usually comes home from work between 5-6 pm but during that week she was not getting in until 7-8 pm. She had a work event (Gala) that she attended on that Saturday, she notified me Saturday morning that she would not be back until the following day, I just said ok. It is only a 40 minute drive from the event to our house. I was going to go with her to the Gala but the weekends got switched with my daughter so I had her. 

She got home late that next morning and said she wanted to discuss our problems. In the end she concluded that everything is my fault like she always does so I just let it go without an argument. I just voiced my displeasure in her verdict calmly.

She took a shower and promptly left again for more than 7 hours. I noticed that she had shaved the day before for the gala. It struck me as odd that she would shave again just one day later. She doesn't normally shave everyday. After she came home there was no conversation. The next day (Monday) she always comes home late because she has a class that she attends that evening. I could not help but to think that there could be someone else. 

I asked her if there was someone else and she said no. I asked for her work phone and the code to get into it and she complied. I took the phone into the guest room and locked the door. She did not like that one bit, she was banging at the door wanting to get in and acted very nervous. 

I found out that the night we had the argument she called her male coworker to go out with her and she stayed out until midnight. She gave my ticket to the Gala to the same coworker. After the Gala they went out to a bar for drinks, I called the bar and they closed at midnight that night. She called him at 3:30 am that morning and they talked until 5:30 am. Asked her about the time gap between the bar closing and her calling him. She just told me that she doesn't remember. I guess that she slept for a few hours and then she called him back at around 9:00 am and they talked for another hour or so. 

It was at this point that she came home, we spoke and she blamed me for all of our problems and left for more than 7 hours. I found out that she called him when she left and she met with him. The call log only goes back two weeks but she spoke with him after work pretty much everyday, including the preceding Saturday when I was out of town. That was before the big fight. I could see where there were texts but she had deleted them all. 

I find her actions completely unacceptable and a breach of our marriage but she refuses to admit that she did anything wrong. She says that the were just friends and that she did not have sex with him. He is going through a divorce and she told me later that he did try to sleep with her. Even after that she continued to have this relationship. 

We had a two day separation after I found all of this out. I called her and told that I want to come back to work things out. I was home for 8 days, during this time she constantly tells me how everything is my fault. We alternated from having passion sex to her not even wanting to see me in the same room.

We went to a marriage counselor for an individual session each and then together the next day. I asked the counselor for a reasonable persons perspective on my wife's relationship with her coworker and I was kind of disappointed that she didn't have my back. She said that it could be considered inappropriate by some people. I don't feel that it is appropriate at all, even if they didn't have sex. 

During the joint counseling session she had a complete melt down about how terrible I am. She said that she need some space and demanded that we go through a trial separation. I packed up everything I need for a couple of weeks and left. I am now at a hotel.

I am hoping to get a reasonable persons perspective here to either justify my feelings or to know that I have blown this out of proportion. I feel that this has all of the signs of at least an emotional affair if not more.

Help Please,
Thank you.


----------



## happy as a clam

I'm sorry you're here.

Do you want to try to save your marriage? 

Are you interested in more "proof" to see if she is still involved with him and help you make up your mind? 

Or is her behavior a deal-breaker, and do you just want to end it and move on?

Answers to these questions will help us give you better advice.


----------



## Thound

Shes cheating! SHE needs to move out!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl

Her relationship with that guy is not good. From what you say it's probably at the start of an emotional affair. 

The rest of it. I have no idea if she has good reason to be so upset with you or not.

Can you give us examples of the 3 major things she seems to be accusing you of.. or what she says the 3 major issues are:

Need something to go on here.


----------



## alte Dame

You may have to take our word for it that she is exhibiting standard (really common) signs of cheating, even down to the 'I was talking to him because he is going through a divorce.'

Pretty much everything points to an affair.

You are well behind the curve. Things that you were willing to assume were innocent simply are not. The nights out, the long periods away from home. Picking a fight with you so she can go with him to the gala. Shaving (!). Really, that's a screaming red flag.

So, the question is what you want to do about it. I think you need to start catching up really quickly if you want any chance of saving your marriage. She has already moved this to a PA.

If you want more proof, try a VAR in her car or any place that she thinks is safe to talk privately. Remember that she may have a second phone. She may have hidden e-mail addresses. She may be messaging using fb or apps. You will have to kick yourself into action to start the serious process of getting evidence. Look up this thread for explicit instructions:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Time is of the essence if you want a chance to save the marriage.

Once you're sure of the affair (which you already should be), then you find out if the OM is married and expose this to his BW. 

Then you tell your WW to leave. This seems extreme, but it isn't. You have to be willing to nuke the marriage to save it. Really, you do. It's the only thing that really works.


----------



## DCM

happy as a clam said:


> I'm sorry you're here.
> 
> Do you want to try to save your marriage?
> 
> Are you interested in more "proof" to see if she is still involved with him and help you make up your mind?
> 
> Or is her behavior a deal-breaker, and do you just want to end it and move on?
> 
> Answers to these questions will help us give you better advice.


I do want to save the marriage. I at least want to do everything I can to save it. I have come to the realization that there is a good chance that it will not survive. I do not want to look back and have any regrets that I didn't do all that I could.

I would like to know the whole story. I have asked her on two occasions to come clean with me and her recollection seems fishy. She can remember some details very clearly and some she can't remember at all. 

The biggest problem I have is that she won't even acknowledge that she did anything wrong. If she can't realize how hurtful her actions were, that is probably going to be a deal breaker. I don't want to have to go through this again because I didn't make her take responsibility for her actions. 

There was a couple of good things that happened. She was planning on driving to a funeral that was 4 hours away with him. She told me this the day that I came back home. I told her that she is to have absolutely no contact with him outside of work and minimal contact at work. She agreed very quickly and without resistance. She gave me the new code to her work phone when she had to change it. I don't have access to the cell phone statements so she could do it if she wanted and I couldn't know. I do feel that she has cut off all contact outside of work. 

If I did find out that she is still talking or seeing him, it would most definitely be the end.

I hope that helps clear up my situation.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## weightlifter

Read the top link in my signature and implement it. Its step by step and has resulted in destroying dozens of affairs.

Just do it.
Dont argue.


----------



## weightlifter

Oh, and for heavens sake....

STOP talking to her about it!!!

Read the link
Implement to get ahead of it
Get something she cant deny
Confront and crush all resistance to the truth.


----------



## DCM

EleGirl said:


> Her relationship with that guy is not good. From what you say it's probably at the start of an emotional affair.
> 
> The rest of it. I have no idea if she has good reason to be so upset with you or not.
> 
> Can you give us examples of the 3 major things she seems to be accusing you of.. or what she says the 3 major issues are:
> 
> Need something to go on here.


She is a bit of a narcissist. If I ever have anything negative to say to her she usually has a mini melt down for some really minor things. She also has a hard time of letting things go. The other day she was mad at me for something 5 years ago. She lets everything from the past to build up and compound her anger.

Most of the things that she gets mad at me about revolves around mind reading. She wishes that I would have said something or handled a situation differently. She becomes so enraged that it usually the "You just don't understand me" argument. I admit that I am not the most sensitive guy but I am never mean to her or neglect her in anyway.

I do not neglect her at all. As a matter of fact I spoil her too much. I am very affectionate and supportive of her. I talk to her everyday about her job and/or things that happen during the day. Last year I retired from the military and don't have to work because I am financially stable. 

I take care of everything at our house (cooking, cleaning, shopping, pay the bills, yard work etc.) Since we were married her career has taken a back seat because of my military career. She is resentful that every time she get established and is building her career we had to move. 

Now it is her time to shine and I am doing everything I can to support her goals. I think I am too accommodating and spoil her too much but I truly love her and want to make her happy. 

I hope answers your questions.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## weightlifter

Stay at home dad?

Statistically...

BIG mistake.


----------



## jsmart

DCM said:


> Our marriage has been progressively getting worse over the past few months. She has been getting extremely angry and blowing up on over normal irritating situations.
> 
> One night a few weeks ago we were going to grab dinner and see a local improv show. After picking her up at work we were on our way to the restaurant when s*he decided she didn't like how I handled a situation that occurred almost a month ago. Things spiraled out of control like they have been doing. Instead of going to the show, I took her back to her car at work. She still wanted to argue with me and was extremely irate. I told her to get out of the car because I wanted to go home.*
> 
> She's picking fights so that she'll have an excuse to see her "lover."
> 
> I left her at her car at about 6:00 pm and she didn't get home until after midnight. I called and text during this time with no response until she was almost home. I ended up sleeping on the couch because I was getting tired and frustrated with her frequent blow ups.
> 
> She never came back to me to apologize so I stubbornly gave her the silent treatment over the next 6 days. *I began sleeping in the guest room. *
> 
> She the betrayer. Let her sleep on couch. You stay in marital bed.
> 
> She usually comes home from work between 5-6 pm but during that week she was not getting in until 7-8 pm. She had a work event (Gala) that she attended on that Saturday, she notified me Saturday morning that she would not be back until the following day, I just said ok. It is only a 40 minute drive from the event to our house. I was going to go with her to the Gala but the weekends got switched with my daughter so I had her.
> 
> She got home late that next morning and said she wanted to discuss our problems. In the end she concluded that everything is my fault like she always does so I just let it go without an argument. I just voiced my displeasure in her verdict calmly.
> 
> She took a shower and promptly left again for more than 7 hours. I noticed that she had shaved the day before for the gala. It struck me as odd that she would shave again just one day later. She doesn't normally shave everyday. After she came home there was no conversation. The next day (Monday) she always comes home late because she has a class that she attends that evening. I could not help but to think that there could be someone else.
> 
> I asked her if there was someone else and she said no. I asked for her work phone and the code to get into it and she complied. I took the phone into the guest room and locked the door. She did not like that one bit, she was banging at the door wanting to get in and acted very nervous.
> 
> I found out that the night we had the argument she called her male coworker to go out with her and she stayed out until midnight. She gave my ticket to the Gala to the same coworker. After the Gala they went out to a bar for drinks, I called the bar and they closed at midnight that night. She called him at 3:30 am that morning and they talked until 5:30 am. Asked her about the time gap between the bar closing and her calling him. She just told me that she doesn't remember. I guess that she slept for a few hours and then she called him back at around 9:00 am and they talked for another hour or so.
> 
> It was at this point that she came home, we spoke and she blamed me for all of our problems and left for more than 7 hours. I found out that she called him when she left and she met with him. The call log only goes back two weeks but she spoke with him after work pretty much everyday, including the preceding Saturday when I was out of town. That was before the big fight. I could see where there were texts but she had deleted them all.
> 
> I find her actions completely unacceptable and a breach of our marriage but she refuses to admit that she did anything wrong. *She says that the were just friends and that she did not have sex with him.* He is going through a divorce and she told me later that he did try to sleep with her. Even after that she continued to have this relationship.
> 
> Don't believe for a second that they have not had sex. Married woman give up the sex real fast. The worst part is that many times the freaky stuff you've begging her to try, POSOM gets on first night.
> 
> We had a two day separation after I found all of this out. I called her and told that I want to come back to work things out. I was home for 8 days, during this time she constantly tells me how everything is my fault. *We alternated from having passion sex to her not even wanting to see me in the same room.*
> 
> Sex with her can go from hot, because she is fantasizing that you're the OM, to total discuss with you because she feels like she is betraying her man.
> 
> We went to a marriage counselor for an individual session each and then together the next day. *I asked the counselor for a reasonable persons perspective on my wife's relationship with her coworker and I was kind of disappointed that she didn't have my back. She said that it could be considered inappropriate by some people.* I don't feel that it is appropriate at all, even if they didn't have sex.
> 
> You need a counselor that specializes in infidelity cases. But to be honest, it's obvious that she's still seeing the POSOM, so counseling will be a waste of time & money.
> 
> During the joint counseling session she had a complete melt down about how terrible I am. She said that she need some space and demanded that we go through a trial separation. I packed up everything I need for a couple of weeks and left. I am now at a hotel.
> 
> I am hoping to get a reasonable persons perspective here to either justify my feelings or to know that I have blown this out of proportion. I feel that this has all of the signs of at least an emotional affair if not more.
> 
> Help Please,
> Thank you.


You came on the internet and signed up to get help because your gut is screaming that this is not right. Trust your gut.


----------



## DCM

weightlifter said:


> Stay at home dad?
> 
> Statistically...
> 
> BIG mistake.


Why do you say that? 

I am not really a stay at home dad. My daughter is from my 1st marriage, have her every other weekend and holidays. I don't have children with my wife.

I do have a supplemental income but I only work 5-7 days a month and I can create my own schedule. She does not support me financially in any way.


----------



## GusPolinski

She's lying. They f*cked and they're still f*cking.


----------



## Dogbert

A separation seldom brings a marriage back from the precipice. It is also an excuse for a cheating spouse to live the life of a single person, trying out an open relationship with his/her AP, all without the guilt of dealing with his/her spouse. So consider yourself warned.


----------



## Nucking Futs

DCM said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> I am not really a stay at home dad. My daughter is from my 1st marriage, have her every other weekend and holidays. I don't have children with my wife.
> 
> I do have a supplemental income but I only work 5-7 days a month and I can create my own schedule. She does not support me financially in any way.


It doesn't matter if you're still bringing in money. A wife who is working while her husband stays home will frequently lose respect and eventually start resenting him. Despite what the feminists want us to think it is not a level playing field when it comes to working/not working.


----------



## jsmart

Nucking Futs said:


> It doesn't matter if you're still bringing in money. A wife who is working while her husband stays home will frequently lose respect and eventually start resenting him. Despite what the feminists want us to think it is not a level playing field when it comes to working/not working.


This is so true. Seen it on so many times. There is something about a woman going out to work and the man staying at home that causes a woman to lose respect for a man. I've seen it affecting even men who work from home or have a home business.


----------



## jr92gp

Why did your first marriage end?


----------



## Dyokemm

She's cheating....and it is almost certainly a PA.

She is lying and blameshifting with every word out of her mouth.

Move back to your home immediately...she has no right to kick you out.

Tell her if she wants to cheat with her bf, she can get the f*ck out....you are not going to tolerate one more second of her disrespect and bullsh*t.

If you want more proof before exposing the A, get a VAR and place it in her car...she will either be talking to POSOM or friends about the A at some point.

Personally, I think you have more than enough to justify filing for D and informing both your families and all friends you are ending the M because she is a cheating POS.

And refuse to go back to that useless MC, even if she comes begging to try counseling after you slap her with D papers.

And find POSOM's BW to verify he truly is divorcing....chances are that this is either a lie or he is pulling the same 'separation' crap with her.

Expose his worthless a**.....fair payback for f*cking with your M and life.


----------



## jsmart

Dyokemm said:


> She's cheating....and it is almost certainly a PA.
> 
> She is lying and blameshifting with every word out of her mouth.
> 
> Move back to your home immediately...she has no right to kick you out.
> 
> Tell her if she wants to cheat with her bf, she can get the f*ck out....you are not going to tolerate one more second of her disrespect and bullsh*t.
> 
> If you want more proof before exposing the A, get a VAR and place it in her car...she will either be talking to POSOM or friends about the A at some point.
> 
> Personally, I think you have more than enough to justify filing for D and informing both your families and all friends you are ending the M because she is a cheating POS.
> 
> And refuse to go back to that useless MC, even if she comes begging to try counseling after you slap her with D papers.
> 
> *And find POSOM's BW to verify he truly is divorcing....chances are that this is either a lie or he is pulling the same 'separation' crap with her.*
> 
> She could be saying that to protect POSOM or He could be
> lying to your wife so he can get pass her initial apprehension.
> 
> Expose his worthless a**.....fair payback for f*cking with your M and life.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

EleGirl said:


> Her relationship with that guy is not good. From what you say it's probably at the start of an emotional affair.
> 
> The rest of it. I have no idea if she has good reason to be so upset with you or not.
> 
> Can you give us examples of the 3 major things she seems to be accusing you of.. or what she says the 3 major issues are:
> 
> Need something to go on here.


This. 

OP, you don't strike me as the most warm and fuzzy guy, sorry to say.

Would love to know more about your relationship, how you treat her, how she treats you, etc.


----------



## bfree

OP, you want to do everything to save your marriage. Start with this. Your wife must quit her job asap. If she doesn't do it voluntarily I advise you to try to find a way to make it so uncomfortable for her to work there that she leaves. You also must expose this affair to anyone and everyone that either has influence over your wife or will support you through this difficult time. Most of all you need to find out if this coworker is married or has a girlfriend and expose to her. Oh and stop the marriage counseling. It's useless as long as she is still cheating and you have a crappy counselor anyway.


----------



## EleGirl

DCM,

You made a mistake leaving your home. If there is anyway that you can go back, do. 

Who owns the house you two live in?

It's your legal residence. She cannot kick you out.

the reason I say that you made a mistake is that if you want to save your marriage, you cannot do it from a hotel room. You cannot even gather any information on what she is up to. You cannot find out how much she is into the affair.

If you living with her, it's a lot easier. Just tell her that you cannot afford to stay in a hotel.


----------



## DCM

EleGirl said:


> DCM,
> 
> You made a mistake leaving your home. If there is anyway that you can go back, do.
> 
> Who owns the house you two live in?
> 
> It's your legal residence. She cannot kick you out.
> 
> the reason I say that you made a mistake is that if you want to save your marriage, you cannot do it from a hotel room. You cannot even gather any information on what she is up to. You cannot find out how much she is into the affair.
> 
> If you living with her, it's a lot easier. Just tell her that you cannot afford to stay in a hotel.


I appreciate you concern and I would agree under normal circumstances. I feel that she is close to having a mental break down, literally. She can do most of her work from home so that is what she has been doing all of this week. I want her to be in a stabile, safe environment while she comes back to reality. I know that sounds crazy but even if our marriage doesn't work out, I love her and want her to be safe. 

I own the house and it wasn't so much that she kicked me out but I volunteered to leave. Going by my gut, I think that she has cut off all contact with the guy. I know my gut isn't a lot to go on but I have to trust it for now. I am going to be out of town all of next week anyway (taking my daughter to see family on spring break) a couple of days isn't going to make a difference.

I specifically told her that if I find any sign of her talking, texting, or seeing him would lead to an immediate termination of our marriage. 

With all of that being said, I downloaded DR Fone and plan on scanning her cell for any deleted info when I get back in town. If she has held up her end of the agreement then we can start working on our marriage. If she hasn't then it is over. 

On a side note, the separation started last night and I told her I would not try to contact her or see her. She called me first thing this morning, checking on how I was doing. Then she called a few hours later, again just checking on me. I missed the third call but called back later on. I told her that she can't have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to be separated then I am not going to be her emotional crutch whenever she needs. I told her that she needs to figure out what she really wants and take her time figuring it out. 

I feel that this let her know that I am only willing to be in a marriage with someone that is committed to making it work and if she isn't I am ok with that. Since then I have been getting a series of texts stating how she wants to earn me back.

This has been a positive step in the right direction. I am cautiously optimistic about this because her mood swings have been severe recently. 

Thanks again for the help, it has been therapeutic to be able to vent here and get others opinions.


----------



## Broken at 20

DCM said:


> I appreciate you concern and I would agree under normal circumstances. I feel that she is close to having a mental break down, literally. She can do most of her work from home so that is what she has been doing all of this week. I want her to be in a stabile, safe environment while she comes back to reality. I know that sounds crazy but even if our marriage doesn't work out, I love her and want her to be safe.
> 
> I own the house and it wasn't so much that she kicked me out but I volunteered to leave. Going by my gut, I think that she has cut off all contact with the guy. I know my gut isn't a lot to go on but I have to trust it for now. I am going to be out of town all of next week anyway (taking my daughter to see family on spring break) a couple of days isn't going to make a difference.
> 
> I specifically told her that if I find any sign of her talking, texting, or seeing him would lead to an immediate termination of our marriage.
> 
> With all of that being said, I downloaded DR Fone and plan on scanning her cell for any deleted info when I get back in town. If she has held up her end of the agreement then we can start working on our marriage. If she hasn't then it is over.


Since she is the bread winner, that is easy to work around. 

I can buy a crappy flip phone for $100, have the bills sent to the office, and keep the affair alive, and you would never know.

I am not saying this to freak you out, (well, kind of am) but to let you know it simply doesn't end with what you've accomplished. 


> On a side note, the separation started last night and I told her I would not try to contact her or see her. She called me first thing this morning, checking on how I was doing. Then she called a few hours later, again just checking on me. I missed the third call but called back later on. I told her that she can't have her cake and eat it too. If she wants to be separated then I am not going to be her emotional crutch whenever she needs. I told her that she needs to figure out what she really wants and take her time figuring it out.
> 
> I feel that this let her know that I am only willing to be in a marriage with someone that is committed to making it work and if she isn't I am ok with that. Since then I have been getting a series of texts stating how she wants to earn me back.
> 
> This has been a positive step in the right direction. I am cautiously optimistic about this because her mood swings have been severe recently.
> 
> Thanks again for the help, it has been therapeutic to be able to vent here and get others opinions.


And when will she be leaving her job? 
And when will you be informing HR of inappropriate conduct? 

this isn't to be spiteful. 
This is to make sure you don't have the same problem in years to follow.


----------



## DCM

bfree said:


> OP, you want to do everything to save your marriage. Start with this. Your wife must quit her job asap. If she doesn't do it voluntarily I advise you to try to find a way to make it so uncomfortable for her to work there that she leaves. You also must expose this affair to anyone and everyone that either has influence over your wife or will support you through this difficult time. Most of all you need to find out if this coworker is married or has a girlfriend and expose to her. Oh and stop the marriage counseling. It's useless as long as she is still cheating and you have a crappy counselor anyway.


At her job she has one main office, a secondary office, and can do a lot of work from home. One positive sign is that she came to me with her plan to not have to work in the same area as her coworker. There is a good possibility that she will be getting a promotion to a different department soon (next week or two). This would eliminate any mandatory contact with him. If she limits her contact with him to what is absolutely necessary then I am ok with that. 

I have considered speaking with her mother about it. I have a very good relationship with her. I feel like that is a tool of last resort. That would open up a can of worms that may hinder the situation more than help. I am at the point to if I find more evidence of an ongoing relationship then I will be ready to end it. I made that clear to my wife. 

Thanks for the help


----------



## GusPolinski

DCM said:


> ...I downloaded DR Fone and plan on scanning her cell for any deleted info when I get back in town. If she has held up her end of the agreement then we can start working on our marriage. If she hasn't then it is over.


If it's an iPhone, you don't even have to wait until you're back in town. 

And, assuming that it is an iPhone, how much of the following information do you currently have?

* User ID (this will be an e-mail address) and password for the Apple iTunes/iCloud account

* Password for the e-mail account associated w/ the Apple account

Additionally, what kind of phone do _you_ use?


----------



## Nucking Futs

Broken at 20 said:


> Since she is the bread winner, that is easy to work around.
> 
> *I can buy a crappy flip phone for $100, have the bills sent to the office, and keep the affair alive, and you would never know.
> *
> I am not saying this to freak you out, (well, kind of am) but to let you know it simply doesn't end with what you've accomplished.
> 
> 
> And when will she be leaving her job?
> And when will you be informing HR of inappropriate conduct?
> 
> this isn't to be spiteful.
> This is to make sure you don't have the same problem in years to follow.


It's worse than that. My local wal mart has a prepaid flip phone for $9.88, add $20 in minutes and you've got the epitome of a burner phone, so cheap you don't mind discarding it. $30 and she's got private communications with anyone she wants that you can't intercept. The best hope for catching a burner phone is vars in the car and any area you think she might talk on it, and if she just uses it for text you're screwed.


----------



## carolinadreams

Weightlifter gave you good advice.

1. You can't nice your way back to sanity.
2. Ditch that marriage counselor, and get a pro-marriage counselor.
3. Going away next week is a poor prioritization, reschedule.
4. Separation very nearly never improves anything it's just practice for being apart.
5. Have her get tested and you get tested for STDs, don't sleep with her till you get results.
6. Insist she make a time line of who, what, where, when - back up any records emails etc - details may get fuzzy in time and unless you are one of the exceptions your mind will be chewing this over for the next 2-4 years.
7. Right now you have probably less than 1/4 of the "truth" trickle truth is the rule and not the exception.
8. Generally poor treatment, outbursts, criticisms seem to frequently correlate with active infidelity - having to interact with you seems tiresome etc you are keeping them from their affair partner.


----------



## summersoul

I know it sounds tuff but u are a weak man in my eyes.. Sorry to say that but your wife sounds to me like an awfull w*ore. Staying in contact with a coworker who wants to sleep with her? That alone would be enough to divorce her and it should be enough for every married person out there. 
The behaviour of your wife is making me sick to my stomach just from reading about it. Cheating or not (though I think she is already sleeping with him), the whole disrespect from her would be enough for me to dump her in a heartbeat. Working things out? Moving out an letting her stay in the house (to f*ck with the OM)?, care about her well-being? Come on man, how much does she have to spit in your face till you realize it? 
If I were you, I would move in, telling her that I wont put up with her bull*hit anymore, kick her out, delete her number and let my lawyer contacting her concerning divorce and find me a *good* wife in the meantime. Bit*hes like her deserve that and only that. Sorry bro... 
But I dont think you will do it so get ready to be cheated on again and again, living in a world of mistrust and disrespect and loosing your pride as a man!
But I hope you will choose the other way!
Take care!


----------



## NoChoice

OP,
You have indicated that you want to save the marriage, the sad reality however, is that it is not up to you. One person cannot save a marriage. It is not until your wife truly, desperately wants to salvage her relationship with you that any progress can be made. Absent that, she may halfheartedly feign attempting R with you but it will not be genuine and therefore futile.

Her motivation for R will usually be pain, not yours but her's. The 180 and other "plans" are directed at forcing the WS to "feel" the pain and reality of actually losing their M and SO. THEIR pain motivates them to act. If your pain were any concern, then this would not have occurred in the first place.

The question then becomes do you want to try and coerce someone into being with you or, more to the point, can you? I believe that the only successful Rs occur when the WS has a true epiphany and then realizes the situation in the light of truth. If you continue to "support" her through the separation then she has the best of both worlds. A H when she needs support and guidance and a lover when she needs sex. This cannot perpetuate. I wish you well and regret your having to come here.


----------



## 6301

Your home and you left? Big mistake. If you have a kid and you want to spend time with her then that means you can't go back to your home. Dumb.

Look friend. Time to start playing hard ball. Get your ass home and let her know tat it you and her are separated then it's now her turn to move out and make sure she knows you serious as a heart attack and for once put the blame where it belongs. 

If it was me I would tell her that she's not welcome back until she gets herself a serious change of attitude and comes clean with this guy and if need be, tell her your setting up a polygraph test to find out. If she balks at the idea then you know that something isn't right. 

Stop being her patsy and get her ass back down to earth.


----------



## Thundarr

DCM she's at the onset of an affair and resenting you to rationalize why she deserves it.

If you want a divorce then let her continue to rug sweep her actions and blame you for everything while you get the paperwork started. If you want the relationship to work though then do 180 ASAP, start pushing for divorce, be indifferent and unavailable but not emotional. That's the best way to introduce reality quickly. Personally I think for your marriage to get back on track that you have to pull away and she has to realize what it being lost and then lots of heavy lifting and remorse from her. Without those things it's not reconciliation even if it looks like it.


----------



## Dogbert

Not all cheating wives act like your wife. My ex-wife pleaded with me for another chance but I just couldn't despite my love for her. In my opinion, she and other cheating wives like her, are more deserving of another chance than a cheating wife who is unremorseful and demonizes her betrayed husband to justify the unjustifiable.


----------



## Thundarr

alte Dame said:


> You are well behind the curve. Things that you were willing to assume were innocent simply are not. The nights out, the long periods away from home. Picking a fight with you so she can go with him to the gala. Shaving (!). Really, that's a screaming red flag.


This is a fact DCM. The very first sentence is a huge red flag and it's humbling how scripted this stuff is. We like to think we're unique but human nature makes the same things repeat over and over. It's good that you're here asking questions because you will also be susceptible to falling into some really nasty human nature traps driven by insecurity and fear.


----------



## weightlifter

alte Dame said:


> You are well behind the curve. Things that you were willing to assume were innocent simply are not. The nights out, the long periods away from home. Picking a fight with you so she can go with him to the gala. Shaving (!). Really, that's a screaming red flag.


Ugh. Who was it? Metluser? whose wife was picking fights?

Late nights seen on dozens of threads

More attention to self. Dozens of threads.


----------



## DCM

Last night and this morning she sent me a bunch of long texts saying how much she loves me and wants to win me back so I decided to go talk to her this morning. I didn't want to argue or even have a conversation, I wanted to let her know what she needs to do to get our marriage back on track. I told her to get a note pad so she won't forget or not understand what I am asking.

#1 - Be 100% committed to our marriage and do what it takes to makes things right. 

#2 - Take responsibility for her actions and know that what she did was hurtful and unacceptable.

#3 - Complete 100% transparency. I told her I wanted all of her user names and passwords for everything (bank accounts, credit cards, e-mail, I-tunes, EVERYTHING)

This is went she went into a mini meltdown again. She wanted to stop talking and call her counselor. Then she said she wanted me to leave or she was leaving. At that point I just left.

I texted her about 30 minutes later and told her she needed to send me all of the info now. She said no and that I was trying to bully her. I told her that if she didn't send the info now it is over.

She again refused so I told her when I get back next week I expect her to be gone along with anything she wants from the house and to not contact me anymore. I am going to contact a lawyer on Monday.

I can work through just about anything but she keeps trying to hide things. I cannot work through her secrecy and denying.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I can work through just about anything but she keeps trying to hide things. I cannot work through her secrecy and denying."

Yep...you HAVE to make your stand on this point.

She is protecting the A at all costs....the price for that MUST be her M.

You are facing a full blown EA/PA here....no one but an idiot would pay this big a price for a 'friendship'.

Do not back down....force her to choose.


----------



## kennethk

Agree. Hammer down.


----------



## BobSimmons

Doubt you can kick her out if she refuses to budge as it is her marital home as well. But you need to get back into your home ASAP.

180 on her, don't talk to her whatever but if she's noting everything down she can use it in court. Get back into your house.


----------



## Dogbert

*Boys and girls, can you say the words "cake eater"? I knew you could*.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Giving you full transparency seems to be a deal breaker for her. That tells you all you need to know about how committed she is to reconciling with you.

If possible, I would track down this guy's wife. Tell her you have been told they are divorcing, and he has been spending time with your wife. See what she has to say about it. Divorce may be a BS story, which isn't uncommon. Or perhaps your wife is the CAUSE of the divorce.

Where did she stay, the night of the gala? Hotel?

3:30am phone call - "did you get home ok? Wish you could have spent the whole night "
9:00 am phone call - "I had a great time last night. Miss you"

and get back in the house NOW.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## carolinadreams

Good job you can't compromise on integrity or let her negotiate the infidelity. If she can come back to being a human being, and putting the marriage first this is the way to do it - being firm. You may find if she comes back to normalcy that you just don't care anymore.


----------



## jsmart

DCM said:


> This is went she went into a mini meltdown again. She wanted to stop talking and call her counselor. *Then she said she wanted me to leave or she was leaving. At that point I just left.*
> 
> Why are you leaving. She's the one that should leave. This can come back to bite you in our lopsided family/divorce court system.
> 
> I texted her about 30 minutes later and told her she needed to send me all of the info now. She said no and that I was trying to bully her. I told her that if she didn't send the info now it is over.
> 
> *She again refused so I told her when I get back next week I expect her to be gone along with anything she wants from the house and to not contact me anymore. I am going to contact a lawyer on Monday.*
> 
> Next week? You need to get back in your house ASAP. It can be turned around on you abandoning the marriage/home.
> A woman can pull that and get away with it but the courts will drop the hammer on you. She is going to be coached by
> her POSOM and her divorcee friends; Seems like all WWs have a divorcee or wanna be divorcee, encouraging them to destroy their marriage.
> 
> *I can work through just about anything but she keeps trying to hide things. I cannot work through her secrecy and denying.*


If you don't have any kids with her and have only been together a few years, why would you want to work things out with her? She has shown through her actions that she is choosing POSOM.


----------



## NoChoice

She went out, found another man, slept with him, broke her solemn vow, stomped your feelings like so much trash, lied repeatedly, acted covertly and refuses to be open and monogamous and YOU are bullying HER?? Interesting.


----------



## sidney2718

6301 said:


> Your home and you left? Big mistake. If you have a kid and you want to spend time with her then that means you can't go back to your home. Dumb.
> 
> Look friend. Time to start playing hard ball. Get your ass home and let her know tat it you and her are separated then it's now her turn to move out and make sure she knows you serious as a heart attack and for once put the blame where it belongs.
> 
> If it was me I would tell her that she's not welcome back until she gets herself a serious change of attitude and comes clean with this guy and if need be, tell her your setting up a polygraph test to find out. If she balks at the idea then you know that something isn't right.
> 
> Stop being her patsy and get her ass back down to earth.


Please, no polygraphs.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sidney2718 said:


> Please, no polygraphs.


Please, no thread jacking.


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Wait, no kids??

So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, good bye!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Wait, no kids??
> 
> So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, good bye!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Julie Andrews:lol:
Or is it the sound of Griswald.


----------



## Nucking Futs

DCM said:


> Last night and this morning she sent me a bunch of long texts saying how much she loves me and wants to win me back so I decided to go talk to her this morning. I didn't want to argue or even have a conversation, I wanted to let her know what she needs to do to get our marriage back on track. I told her to get a note pad so she won't forget or not understand what I am asking.
> 
> #1 - Be 100% committed to our marriage and do what it takes to makes things right.
> 
> #2 - Take responsibility for her actions and know that what she did was hurtful and unacceptable.
> 
> *#3 - Complete 100% transparency. I told her I wanted all of her user names and passwords for everything (bank accounts, credit cards, e-mail, I-tunes, EVERYTHING)
> 
> This is went she went into a mini meltdown again. She wanted to stop talking and call her counselor. Then she said she wanted me to leave or she was leaving. At that point I just left.
> *
> I texted her about 30 minutes later and told her she needed to send me all of the info now. She said no and that I was trying to bully her. I told her that if she didn't send the info now it is over.
> 
> She again refused so I told her when I get back next week I expect her to be gone along with anything she wants from the house and to not contact me anymore. I am going to contact a lawyer on Monday.
> 
> I can work through just about anything but she keeps trying to hide things. I cannot work through her secrecy and denying.


She's going to have a change of heart and give you all the passwords and her phone just as soon as she's had a chance to scrub all the evidence clean and set up alternate secret email accounts and a burner phone. 

Who wants to bet against me?


----------



## PhillyGuy13

Nucking Futs said:


> Who wants to bet against me?



Kenny Rogers wouldn't even take that bet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happy as a clam

Nucking Futs said:


> She's going to have a change of heart and give you all the passwords and her phone just as soon as she's had a chance to scrub all the evidence clean and set up alternate secret email accounts and a burner phone.


:iagree:

Any information on the phone and computer is long gone. You may be able to restore it, but you still have to get your hands on the equipment to do that.


----------



## MattMatt

Oh and from my perspective as a non-practising, but qualified counsellor?

Get a counsellor who actually knows how to deal with infidelity. The one you have at present is no good.


----------



## helolover

DCM, you need to get back into your house now, before it is removed from you in an emergency ex parte hearing. I shat you not. Family courts are decidedly lopsided against the male in most states. Believe it. She will claim you abandoned her and in some states that is grounds for a fault divorce. 

She's lost respect and desire for you. This hurts. She will easily discard you and abuse you through the courts. Do not believe for one second she would never do that. You need to stop talking it out. You need only watch what she does. Her words are lies (proven). Her actions tell all. 

Your story is the same as many. Same script for you and your wife. What everyone is telling you is the truth. We've all been through this. We've watched many many others go through the exact same thing. EXACT. it all comes out the same. Your wife is a lot more involved with this guy than you are willing to believe. They've had sex many many times. It's not okay with you. I understand this and agree. 

You don't need to put up with this stuff anymore. I don't think your situation (from what you've told us) is repairable. 

I second the recommendations to you to expose this stuff to your/her family. Move back in immediately. Stop playing text BS games. Stop asking questions. Start detaching emotionally from her. Millions of threads on here about that. Some call it the "180," and there are several variations of it. The interactions between the two of you seem toxic. Stop.


----------



## OldWolf57

D, sorry you here man, but WHY in the world would you want to be tied to this wacko ??


----------



## synthetic

Don't be stupid. Divorce her and live a better life. She's a narcissistic cheater. You will never have a good night sleep in your life if you stay with a wh0re like her.


----------



## Satya

Be careful, she may trash your house while you're gone. You should watch her pack and bring a friend she can't pull anything weird and call the cops. Her stability sounds questionable.


----------



## cgiles

Good move, but you need to build some strenghs for be able to stick to it. Because she can act like the remorseful wife, tricks you and few days after go back to her past behavior.


Got "no more mr nice guy" by robert glover : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

It will help you to learn how to place boundaries and stand for them. 

You need to read "When I say no, I feel guilty" by Manuel J Smith. It's a classic, it will help you to face her melt down. 

At one point you said you left because she was close to break down. Look Jmon post, he niced his depressed wife, who refused to communicate with him. 
When he asked her to fill the divorce decree, she suddenly feels the need to communicate with him, and shows her love...


----------



## NextTimeAround

PhillyGuy13 said:


> Giving you full transparency seems to be a deal breaker for her. That tells you all you need to know about how committed she is to reconciling with you.
> 
> *If possible, I would track down this guy's wife. * Tell her you have been told they are divorcing, and he has been spending time with your wife. See what she has to say about it. Divorce may be a BS story, which isn't uncommon. Or perhaps your wife is the CAUSE of the divorce.
> 
> Where did she stay, the night of the gala? Hotel?
> 
> 3:30am phone call - "did you get home ok? Wish you could have spent the whole night "
> 9:00 am phone call - "I had a great time last night. Miss you"
> 
> and get back in the house NOW.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


and if you can't do it on your own, it may be well worth paying investigator to do it for you. there are things that you can do that you will not be able to do later.


----------



## thummper

*GET BACK IN YOUR HOUSE IMMEDIATELY!!!!* Don't let your probable-soon-to-be-ex take the high ground in the eyes of the courts!  Dump this cheater and be on your way to a happier life.


----------



## Sports Fan

She started the fight deliberately as to have an excuse to go out with him. Old cheater trick from way back. When you want to see your affair partner but have troubles leaving the house, start a huge fight then storm out for a few hours.

The shaving, the staying out until early mornings and bar hopping alone with this guy means she is sleeping with him.

And to date you have done nothing of whatsoever to offer any consequences to her foul behavour.

Sorry you are here but you do really need to stand up to her.


----------



## dadof2

Sorry you are here OP. I, like many here, have been EXACTLY where you are right now. I don't have time for a long post but my advice is to move home, 180 your ass off, and hire a private investigator. A good PI can get you more info in 2 days than you can get in 2 months. 

My WW did everything yours has done and it was confirmed that she had an affair with a coworker. Search for my thread here if you have a couple hours to kill. I'll be monitoring this thread but my advice is to get moving. Get the PI on her immediately and lawyer up. I feel like your marriage can be saved but you have to show her you are willing to end it. Man up bud, you can do this!


----------



## tom67

dadof2 said:


> Sorry you are here OP. I, like many here, have been EXACTLY where you are right now. I don't have time for a long post but my advice is to move home, 180 your ass off, and hire a private investigator. A good PI can get you more info in 2 days than you can get in 2 months.
> 
> My WW did everything yours has done and it was confirmed that she had an affair with a coworker. Search for my thread here if you have a couple hours to kill. I'll be monitoring this thread but my advice is to get moving. Get the PI on her immediately and lawyer up. I feel like your marriage can be saved but you have to show her you are willing to end it. Man up bud, you can do this!


You have come a long way grasshopper.
DCM he speaks the truth.


----------



## ThePheonix

NoChoice said:


> She went out, found another man, slept with him, broke her solemn vow, stomped your feelings like so much trash, lied repeatedly, acted covertly and refuses to be open and monogamous and YOU are bullying HER?? Interesting.


"Your bullying me" is womanese for "I want you to keep putting up with my shyt. How dare you expecting me to change anything you bastard"


----------



## Chaparral

DCM said:


> She is a bit of a narcissist. If I ever have anything negative to say to her she usually has a mini melt down for some really minor things. She also has a hard time of letting things go. The other day she was mad at me for something 5 years ago. She lets everything from the past to build up and compound her anger.
> 
> Most of the things that she gets mad at me about revolves around mind reading. She wishes that I would have said something or handled a situation differently. She becomes so enraged that it usually the "You just don't understand me" argument. I admit that I am not the most sensitive guy but I am never mean to her or neglect her in anyway.
> 
> I do not neglect her at all. As a matter of fact I spoil her too much. I am very affectionate and supportive of her. I talk to her everyday about her job and/or things that happen during the day. Last year I retired from the military and don't have to work because I am financially stable.
> 
> I take care of everything at our house (cooking, cleaning, shopping, pay the bills, yard work etc.) Since we were married her career has taken a back seat because of my military career. She is resentful that every time she get established and is building her career we had to move.
> 
> Now it is her time to shine and I am doing everything I can to support her goals. I think I am too accommodating and spoil her too much but I truly love her and want to make her happy.
> 
> I hope answers your questions.
> 
> Thanks for the help.



Starting arguments is yet another huge redflag of a cheater. It helps them justify their cheating. So far your wife has pretty much the full boat of cheating red flags.

Taking care of the house, cooking ,cleaning etc. It turns out actually makes you look like the cook, maid butler. That is not attractive to women on a gut level.

Google a list of signs of cheating, check them off, hand it to your wife, move back in and tell her to gtfo.


----------



## turnera

DCM said:


> I take care of everything at our house (cooking, cleaning, shopping, pay the bills, yard work etc.) Since we were married her career has taken a back seat because of my military career. She is resentful that every time she get established and is building her career we had to move.
> 
> Now it is her time to shine and I am doing everything I can to support her goals. I think I am too accommodating and spoil her too much but I truly love her and want to make her happy.


This, combined with narcissism, is a ticking time bomb. Hire a cleaner for the house, share the other chores with her, and get out of the house with a hobby. Women lose respect for housemen.

Oh, and get back in that house. If she's so unhappy, SHE can leave. That's the first step in getting her to respect you again.


----------



## Jasel

Like others have said, your priority at this point in time should be getting back in the house ASAP.


----------



## Chaparral

Any news?


----------



## DCM

Things have been pretty chaotic over the past couple of weeks so I haven't posted an update. I would check in every now and then to read your posts so thanks for everyone's input. 

I did take my daughter out of town last week to see family. I needed a break from all of this and it really helped. Prior to leaving we saw the MC and it ended with another meltdown by her. She left saying she needs space and that she doesn't want to talk to me for a couple of days. I think everyone here knows what that means. 

Her big revelation is that the coworker is gay. This is the third version of why she was so close to him. Nothing about that makes sense so I just discarded it.

I text and spoke with her very few times over the next 5 days. When I got home she had packed up the essentials and checked into a hotel. I can tell that she only spent one night in the house while I was gone. I emptied the trash and unloaded the dishwasher before I left. When I got home there was only 1 wine glass, 1 water glass, and 1 coffee cup that was dirty. I know her daily habits and there should have been one for each day and the almost empty trash can confirmed this. She just denies it. 

So I am back in the house now and she is staying at a hotel. It feels better to be in a more stabile environment. I have problems going to sleep and there always seemed to be a loud room close to me every night. I am sleeping a little better at night now. 

The time away really helped me accept what has happened and know what I want/need for reconciliation. I have came to the realization that she isn't going to give me that. We went to the MC again yesterday and I drew the line, full disclosure and transparency or D. She left without giving me either and needed space again. She is about to get all of the space she needs. I am calling a lawyer today and getting a plan to separate all of the things that tie us together. 

She would rather burn it down than to admit to the affair. I will not rebuild my marriage based on lies. Her PD is out of control and some how I am the bad guy. I am going to save myself years of pain and trust issues by calling it now. We have both talked about an uncontested D so I feel that it shouldn't be to painful and drag out. 

I was willing to work through our issues as long as we both knew what those issues are. It is a shame because I really do love her and want to spend my life with her but not at any cost. I have accepted where I/We are at now and I am ready to move forward. She doesn't deserve my love and what I bring to the relationship. Her actions show that she won't deserve it anytime soon. 

Thanks again to everyone that has given advice and helping me confirm that I am not crazy. I am in a good place emotionally considering the events over the past month and I am optimistic about my future.


----------



## thummper

God bless and good luck.


----------



## G.J.

Your moods will swing from day to day about the Decision you have made BUT stay the course as when your allowed the space to think clearly its obviously the only course

Think of you
Think of your Daughter
Detach from your wife as much as you can BUT stay civil and brief


----------



## dadof2

DCM said:


> She left saying she needs space and that she doesn't want to talk to me for a couple of days. I think everyone here knows what that means.
> 
> *You are catching on quick*
> 
> Nothing about that makes sense so I just discarded it.
> 
> *Good move, she is gaslighting.*
> 
> I have came to the realization that she isn't going to give me that.
> *
> She can't give it to you now because she still thinks the grass is greener and the AP is the white knight*.
> 
> We went to the MC again yesterday and I drew the line, full disclosure and transparency or D. She left without giving me either and needed space again. She is about to get all of the space she needs. I am calling a lawyer today and getting a plan to separate all of the things that tie us together.
> 
> *Wise move, get things in order and give her the D papers- she may or may not realize how serious this is.*
> 
> She would rather burn it down than to admit to the affair. I will not rebuild my marriage based on lies.
> 
> *I have been right where you are. They will do anything to save face and make you the bad guy. Stay the course with the 180 and minimal contact.*
> 
> I was willing to work through our issues as long as we both knew what those issues are. It is a shame because I really do love her and want to spend my life with her but not at any cost. I have accepted where I/We are at now and I am ready to move forward. She doesn't deserve my love and what I bring to the relationship. Her actions show that she won't deserve it anytime soon.
> 
> *This is a great mindset. Keep telling yourself this, every day, every hour if you have to.*
> 
> Thanks again to everyone that has given advice and helping me confirm that I am not crazy. I am in a good place emotionally considering the events over the past month and I am optimistic about my future.



I have been through hell and back in my situation and I know you want her to see things how they are. But she is doing anything she can to justify her actions and make you the bad guy so she has a "reason" to look elsewhere.

Detach, detach, detach. Keep contact to a bare minimum and only about legal issues. Don't let her sweep you into a deep conversation. There can be a time for that later if she shows remorse. Right now she is trying to manipulate you and get what she wants to feel better about herself. Your actions will show her that you have really begun to move on. This will either flip the switch and she will see what she is losing or it won't. It took my WW a full year before she hit bottom and saw what she is throwing away. I had already moved on and accepted the fact that we were divorcing. Now we are in the baby stages of R.


----------



## Chaparral

Good luck. By the way, the odds two cheaters stay together long term is 3 out of 100. I'm guessing it's because they can't trust each other, lol.


----------



## tom67

Sorry man
Just file don't tell her and serve her at work.
Just because you file it does not mean automatic divorce.
If by chance she gets her head out of her @ss you can always stop it.


----------



## azteca1986

DCM said:


> She is about to get all of the space she needs. I am calling a lawyer today and getting a plan to separate all of the things that tie us together.


Good for you.


----------



## Dyokemm

"Her big revelation is that the coworker is gay."

lol.....This jewel is not that uncommon from WW's.....it pops up quite frequently ( In fact, currently, I think CantBelieveThis is dealing with a cop who asked his WW for sex and now the story is he's gay).

Then it comes out that the WW has been having a PA with the supposedly gay POSOM.

I guess these WW's must all be part of some church's Gay Conversion Therapy program.


----------



## musk-rat

Hang in there. I am in the process of going throught the same things with my wife and a co-worker. It will get easier, just take it day by day and take care of yourself and daughter.


----------



## tom67

Dyokemm said:


> "Her big revelation is that the coworker is gay."
> 
> lol.....This jewel is not that uncommon from WW's.....it pops up quite frequently ( In fact, currently, I think CantBelieveThis is dealing with a cop who asked his WW for sex and now the story is he's gay).
> 
> Then it comes out that the WW has been having a PA with the supposedly gay POSOM.
> 
> I guess these WW's must all be part of some church's Gay Conversion Therapy program.


It's the new hetero:scratchhead:
You are doing the best you can considering.


----------



## BrutalHonesty

The percentage of gay guys seem to be on the rise. They seem to include all those "just friends" who husbands suspect of being on the prowl...


----------



## Cubby

Chaparral said:


> Good luck. By the way, the odds two cheaters stay together long term is 3 out of 100. I'm guessing it's because they can't trust each other, lol.


I agree, but first the "new and exciting" factor wears off eventually, and then the two cheaters look at each other and see only distrust, not excitement.


----------



## bfree

DCM, I know you and she have talked about an uncontested divorce and you have hopes that things will go smoothly. But it rarely happens that way. Be prepared that the first time things don't go her way or the way she expects that she will start fighting you on everything even if it costs her money our hurts her in the long run. Sometimes (like most of the time) WS can become very belligerent when it all starts to fall apart and they realize how badly they've screwed up.


----------



## DCM

Hello all,
I wanted to give everyone an update on my situation. I went dark on here for a while because I was scared that she would find it and make the divorce proceedings more difficult. I still read the forums almost daily but sometimes they would trigger me pretty hard so I would have to take a break. There were quite a few threads that were therapeutic and reassured me that I was doing the right thing. 

I received a great e-mail this morning. It was my lawyer and attached to the e-mail was the uncontested divorce signed by the judge!!!!!! I want to climb a mountain and scream "I am free!!!!" at the top of it. Although I am very relieved that I was able to get this divorce across the finish line, it is bitter sweet. I have came to the realization that I really don't love my XW but I love the idea of my XW. I think it will still take a while to have my emotional mind catch up to my rational mind. 

In my original posts I described my XW as a bit of a narcissist. I think that I was in denial but I have discovered that she has a full blown NPD. I just thought that those were personality traits of a person with a big ego and that was selfish. I have done hours upon hours of reading about NPD, abusive narcissistic relationships, and co-dependence. I never truly knew how messed up she was on the inside. Once I figured out that she has been and will be like this for her entire life, I began the divorce proceeding as quickly as possible. It took a little over 10 weeks to go from D-Day to finalized divorce.

I found Melanie Tonia Evans' website and it has helped tremendously. I didn't get any of her paid services but there was enough free stuff to help me understand what was going on. It was like she was monitoring my marriage and taking notes, lol. I highly recommend this to anyone dealing with someone with NPD. I learned the narcissists playbook to help me defend myself against her tactics. She followed that playbook to a T. It is uncanny how predictable her behavior was. 

The way I finally got rid of her was I told her to either tell me the 100% truth and ask for forgiveness or never contact me again. She still hasn't admitted to any of it. When ever I would bring it up, she would viciously attack me for the silliest stuff. I learned that accountability is like narc repellent. She has not bothered me since. Before that she would call, text or email me saying that we belong together forever and she can't live without me. I would fall for it then within 12 hours of each occasion she would reject me and tell he what a terrible husband I was. I was just feeding her with Grade-A supply. Each time she would get meaner and more hurtful with her words. This push/pull tactic is their bread and butter during the devaluation stage. 

I could go on forever about all of her manipulative ways so I will wrap it up here. I want to thank everyone for their support and I wanted to share the good news. The rest of my life starts today.


----------



## G.J.

Good luck for the future DCM and you can at last carry on with a tremendous weight lifted off you
Life is good when lived


----------



## Chaparral

Sorry it came to this but glad you are getting out of a no win situation.

Unfortunately for her, NPD is a very serious situation and the therapy for that doesn't seem very successful. Did you ever talk to her about NPD?

On a lighter side you may want to send the OM a thank you note.

Also, your help here would be greatly appreciated!

Good luck 

Chap


----------



## Chaparral

BTW, get the MMSLP book linked to below before you get going with your next relationship.


----------



## farsidejunky

That sounds great. Good revelations. The more important question is how you could allow that to happen. Address that problem inside of yourself lest you repeat the same mistake with another NPD partner.


----------



## synthetic

10 weeks from DDay to a judge's signature has to be a record no?!!

Congratulations man!


----------



## DCM

Chaparral said:


> Sorry it came to this but glad you are getting out of a no win situation.
> 
> Unfortunately for her, NPD is a very serious situation and the therapy for that doesn't seem very successful. Did you ever talk to her about NPD?
> 
> On a lighter side you may want to send the OM a thank you note.
> 
> Also, your help here would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> Good luck
> 
> Chap


I learned that the only way to deal with a SO with NPD is to get out as quickly as possible and go "No Contact" with them. There is nothing that can fix them and only self aware NPD's can somewhat control it. From what I understand is that there are very few that are self aware. My XW was so deep in denial that you would think that she was in an African river. 

I tried to talk to her about "mental issues" in general. I was careful because everything that I said was wrong with her she accused me of having the same issues. She was on a smear campaign (probably still is) and I didn't want her to tell everyone I had NPD. After I asked her to get help with her mental issues she tried to get me to agree to a 3 day inpatient mental evaluation. The mirroring was totally out of hand. I told her if a counselor said I might need that I would agree. I knew they wouldn't because the only thing driving me crazy was her. Our MC said that I most certainly didn't need a mental evaluation. 

I am thankful that I discovered her A so I could wake up from my co-dependency. While I would not like to thank him, I would love it if they became a couple. That would be a punishment that I would find very fitting. Maybe they will even get married, I can only hope  It would be only a matter of time before she implodes again and destroys the guy. I wouldn't wish on anyone but him. Not really bitter but what goes around comes around. 

I would love to help around here when I can. I am not sure how much help I can be with other issues but I am now an NPD expert.


----------



## DCM

farsidejunky said:


> That sounds great. Good revelations. The more important question is how you could allow that to happen. Address that problem inside of yourself lest you repeat the same mistake with another NPD partner.



Part of the reason I was researching NPD so much was so I could identify another one later in life. The problem with my XW is that she hid it so well while we were dating. Looking back I don't remember any red flags until months after we were married. My problem then was ignorance about how severe her PD actually was. 

For years she would only meltdown on me about once a month but it was perfect any other time. We were the perfect couple in every way. She was beautiful, successful, intelligent, educated, the sex was great so I thought that I could just deal with her less desirable traits. 

What I didn't know is that the devaluation phase was coming at some point and then I would see her true self. It wasn't a matter of "if" it would happen but "when" it would happen. The pain and hurt that she inflicted on me was inhumane. Only a soulless person could say the things she said to me and I didn't even do anything to wrong her. I could only imagine if I gave her a reason to hate me. 

So yes, I am going to remember the tell tail signs of an NPD for the rest of my life. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than to deal with this again. I don't think it will come to that but it will be in the front of my mind.


----------



## DCM

synthetic said:


> 10 weeks from DDay to a judge's signature has to be a record no?!!
> 
> Congratulations man!


Thank you, the last few months have been very rough. I feel so bad for those that have long drawn out divorces that last years. I had to swallow my pride many times so we could "be friends" so I could get this divorce across the finish line. There were a couple of times she would talk to "friends" and lawyers contemplating contesting the D. I was able to reel her back in before any damage was done.


----------



## Morcoll

DCM said:


> Part of the reason I was researching NPD so much was so I could identify another one later in life. The problem with my XW is that she hid it so well while we were dating. Looking back I don't remember any red flags until months after we were married. My problem then was ignorance about how severe her PD actually was.
> 
> For years she would only meltdown on me about once a month but it was perfect any other time. We were the perfect couple in every way. She was beautiful, successful, intelligent, educated, the sex was great so I thought that I could just deal with her less desirable traits.
> 
> What I didn't know is that the devaluation phase was coming at some point and then I would see her true self. It wasn't a matter of "if" it would happen but "when" it would happen. The pain and hurt that she inflicted on me was inhumane. Only a soulless person could say the things she said to me and I didn't even do anything to wrong her. I could only imagine if I gave her a reason to hate me.
> 
> So yes, I am going to remember the tell tail signs of an NPD for the rest of my life. I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than to deal with this again. I don't think it will come to that but it will be in the front of my mind.


Short summary of those signs for the rest of us? What is the devaluation point referring to?


----------



## DCM

Some of the red flags I saw with my wife were:

Always had to be right/perfect - 

Now a lot of people can be stubborn, I am quite stubborn at times, I think that is normal. When I would suggest that she wasn't perfect she would launch a full on verbal attack on me. It could even be for something as small as how she loads the dishwasher. The level of anger that came from her was way out of proportion for the imperfection that I pointed out. 

Not truly apologetic for anything - 

She would say or do something was very hurtful and I would demand that she apologize for how she acted. The best I could get out of her was "I am sorry what I said hurt you" She would word her so called apologies so she could deny being wrong in saying what she did. She even said "I am sorry you aren't strong enough to hear what I am telling you" I was like "that is an apology!!??" 

Will not take responsibility or be accountable for her actions - 

Massive amounts of blame shifting. She would say or do hurtful things to me and blame everyone but herself. I was usually the person that took the blame. "If you wouldn't have done this, I would have had to hurt you like I did." type blaming. She would blame her mom a lot, coworkers, friends etc. but it was never her fault.

Severely inflated view of herself - 

Any minor accomplishment would have to be highly praised. If the praise wasn't up to her needs, be prepared for narcissistic rage or the cold shoulder. 

Lying - 

She would say anything to win an argument. I mean blatant bold face lies. Her stances on everything would conveniently change when ever it suited her. 


Those are some of them. I could go on and on but I think you get the point.


Google Narcissist Cycle. Basically there are three phases of a narcissist relationship cycle:

Idealization Phase - Everything is perfect, they seem like your soul mate. Gives you lots of attention to win you over. 

Devaluation Phase - They no longer see you as a good source of narcissistic supply so they began to tear you apart. The person that you loved and loved you so much now feels the need to destroy you. They know your weaknesses and will do anything to hurt you with them. It is like a sick twist in a movie. It is so unreal that you don't believe that it is happening. 

Discard Phase - I think the name speaks for itself. They will leave you and try to humiliate you in doing so. They will go on a smear campaign hoping to discredit you to everyone they know. Say that you are the crazy one. Most of the time they will rub your nose in an affair and tell you how worthless you are.


All of this is terrible but it is true. Most of the time it takes years and years to get over an NPD relationship.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

OP:

she sounded like very much a 'non-keeper' from page 1 of this thread. People with NPD are simply not marriage material. she seemed so wonderful early on because that is very much part of her disorder. the ability to feign a lot of emotions she does not truly possess...and do so amazingly well.


----------



## synthetic

DCM,

I was created and raised by an extreme NPD father (never diagnosed because well, he's an NPD after all!)

The pain of having an NPD parent is a lifetime pain. It never stops. The devaluation phase is a lifelong battle. They take their dark hearts to their grave and are proud of it too. I know exactly what you went through, and am jealous that you actually got to see an ending to it.

Your jaw will drop many times when you enter a relationship with a 'normal' person. You will always have that 'doubt' about her sincerity and kindness. It's very normal to have that doubt. Don't let it define your relationship. I've been struggling with this for almost 2 years now. I divorced a crazy ex-wife with a cluster-B personality (NPD, BPD and a few other f***ed up personality disorders enmeshed together) and can rarely believe people's acts of kindness and sincerity. I know I'm wrong, but can seldom help it.

Disordered spouses and parents really destroy the lives of those around them. I have no idea what 'normal' is. I wish I did.

The only way I have found to deal with these issues is to take life a lot easier than I used to. I basically no longer care about many things that I used to. This way, I don't engage disordered people's incredibly hurtful world. I don't think I'm missing out on much. I have a nice relationship and can even look forward to having children in the future. Maybe that's what 'normal' is?


----------



## staystrong

farsidejunky said:


> That sounds great. Good revelations. *The more important question is how you could allow that to happen. * Address that problem inside of yourself lest you repeat the same mistake with another NPD partner.


It's hard for people who haven't been with NPDers to fathom how nuanced and subtle the N is. Their love seems real, very real. They are chameleons who blend in and find well-adjusted normal people as targets.


----------



## happyman64

DCM

I'm just glad you got out of your marriage unharmed and have kept your good nature intact.

You do realize miss NPD will most likely knock on your door sometime down the road.

Please don't answer the door that day.... :smile2:

HM


----------



## farsidejunky

staystrong said:


> It's hard for people who haven't been with NPDers to fathom how nuanced and subtle the N is. Their love seems real, very real. They are chameleons who blend in and find well-adjusted normal people as targets.


But I have been with someone who was likely NPD. All the signs were there. 

With NPD'ers, there comes that point where you know they are gas lighting you, flipping the truth upside down, etc.

When that time comes, strong personal boundaries prevent from advancing and becoming worse.

That is what I meant by allowing it to happen. If the OP does not learn from it, he runs the risk of repeating it.


----------



## ing

synthetic said:


> Your jaw will drop many times when you enter a relationship with a 'normal' person. You will always have that 'doubt' about her sincerity and kindness. It's very normal to have that doubt. Don't let it define your relationship. I've been struggling with this for almost 2 years now. I divorced a crazy ex-wife with a cluster-B personality (NPD, BPD and a few other f***ed up personality disorders enmeshed together) and can rarely believe people's acts of kindness and sincerity. I know I'm wrong, but can seldom help it.
> 
> Disordered spouses and parents really destroy the lives of those around them. I have no idea what 'normal' is. I wish I did.


Isn't this the truth.


----------

