# I'm " cleaner than others " in his eyes?



## Saph_

So, my boyfriend and I were having a conversation about my sister. She recently cheated on her husband and left him and the kids for the other man.
My boyfriend was talking about how he's not a cheater, could never cheat, his moral integrity isn't worth losing and also the fact that you never know what you could catch from someone. 

Which led to a conversation about me. I was a virgin when I met my boyfriend. He was my first and only. He laughed and said that it's hot to think about the fact that he's the only guy who knows what I'm like and that I'm cleaner than other women. Cleaner in the sense that my only sexual experiences are with him and the fact that he took my virginity and he's the only one who has it is hot to him.

So my question is, out of curiosity, has it ever been a turn off for any of you men to know that your wife has had sexual experiences before you?
Is it common for men to find it hot that they took someone's virginity and they are the only one said virgin has been sleeping with? Is it the purity? 
Just curious about what the reasoning is or if this mind set/fantasy? Whatever it is is common or not.


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## Cletus

Saph_ said:


> So my question is, out of curiosity, has it ever been a turn off for any of you men to know that your wife has had sexual experiences before you?


No. The older I get, the more I realize that marrying someone with little sexual experience is the relationship equivalent of playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a six-shooter.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
whether or not my wife was a virgin when we married didn't mean anything to me. 

I agree with the above that marrying a more sexually experienced person so that you understand your compatibility better is vital.


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## Saph_

Festivus said:


> No. The older I get, the more I realize that marrying someone with little sexual experience is the relationship equivalent of playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in a six-shooter.




Lol, unless the woman knew what she was doing. I get why people would assume that a virgin has no idea what to do, but come on.


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## Fozzy

Saph_ said:


> Lol, unless the woman knew what she was doing. I get why people would assume that a virgin has no idea what to do, but come on.


It depends on circumstances of course. My wife and I were each others' first and only's. 

Experience and "knowing what to do" is of course a factor, but experience comes with practice, which is half the fun.

Another factor comes along with age. Simply put, the older a person is while still maintaining their virginity, the more it indicates that they simply don't have much of a sex drive. And that can spell major trouble down the road.


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## knobcreek

Technically you are "cleaner" there is no risk of STD's or HIV since you've not had sex before.

That said I like my women a little sl*tty to be honest.


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## EleGirl

There are people who believe that woman are ruined (as in "dirty" or like spoiled meat) once they have sex. Your husband is clearly one of them.


It's an old attitude that is a double standard and is also pretty damaging.


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## knobcreek

EleGirl said:


> There are people who believe that woman are ruined (as in "dirty" or like spoiled meat) once they have sex. Your husband is clearly one of them.
> 
> 
> It's an old attitude that is a double standard and is also pretty damaging.


Like I said I like my women a little sl*tty so I don't follow that train of thought, but the double standard comes from tens of thousands of years of societal evolution. the ONLY way a man could guarantee his child was his is if he was certain he married a virgin and she didn't sleep with anyone until she became pregnant. 

When a woman has a child their is no doubt about the status of the child being hers, but with a man it's always up in the air, so the double standard makes sense in context. I think something like 15% of children born in a marriage are not actually the husbands kid, so maybe there's something to it.


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## EleGirl

knobcreek said:


> Like I said I like my women a little sl*tty so I don't follow that train of thought, but the double standard comes from tens of thousands of years of societal evolution.


There are many social customs that existed for tens of thousands of years that we have done away with, at least in the Western countries.

One example is slavery. Slavery existed in every culture/civilization since the dawn of time. Western countries now make it illegal. It might still exist and be alive and well in some 3rd word countries today, but we do not allow it here. We have changed our societal evolution.

The same goes for the rights of women and peoples of different racial/ethnic backgrounds. We now all have the same rights under the law. Again, we used our brains and stopped most of the negative parts of social evolution in regards to gender, race and ethnicity.

The double standard that ascribed a double standard to women in another that we are getting rid of over time. Even using the term “sl*tty” is pretty demeaning to women. To suggest that a woman who is not a virgin when she marries is “sl*tty” is not cool at all.



knobcreek said:


> the ONLY way a man could guarantee his child was his is if he was certain he married a virgin and she didn't sleep with anyone until she became pregnant.


Well no, a woman does not have to be a virgin upon marriage in order for a man to know that she bares is her husband’s child. Some societies, ancient ones and third world ones, have a rule/law that a woman must wait 3 months after the end of a marriage before seeing and/or marrying another man. See, after a 3-month period of no sex with her ex, it becomes clear that she is not pregnant from her ex.

Today we have a very reliable way to prove who is and is not the father of a child… DNA testing. So men have even more ways to prove their parentage. This should make the idea that virgin brides are so valuable even more archaic. 

One of the main reasons for virgin brides in the past is that girls were married off, mostly to older men, between the ages of 9 and 14. So of course one would expect that girls that young had not engaged in sex prior to marriage. With child marriage (slave marriage really) a think of the past in Western countries, most women marry after high school and even after college and/or working for a while. So it’s highly likely that a woman had sex prior to marriage. But having sex does not “spoil” a woman.



knobcreek said:


> When a woman has a child their is no doubt about the status of the child being hers, but with a man it's always up in the air, so the double standard makes sense in context. I think something like 15% of children born in a marriage are not actually the husbands kid, so maybe there's something to it.


Yet a woman being a virgin at marriage, does not prevent some 15% of babies from being fathered by someone other than the woman’s husband. DNA tests done on ancient civilizations, where virginity was golden, found that the same percentage of babies back then had a father other than a woman’s husband. So I guess all that social targeting of women made little difference.

Today, if a man wants to make sure that a child is his offspring, all he needs to do is to do a DNA test. He can even ask for it to be done before the baby is born.


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## Cletus

Saph_ said:


> Lol, unless the woman knew what she was doing. I get why people would assume that a virgin has no idea what to do, but come on.


Every marry one? Sex is like calculus - you don't get proficient by reading a book.


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## sscygni

My wife had two kids before we got together. I am going to go out on a limb and say she wasn't a virgin. Didn't/Doesn't bother me in the least.


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## Personal

Saph_ said:


> So my question is, out of curiosity, has it ever been a turn off for any of you men to know that your wife has had sexual experiences before you?


Virginity meh...

It doesn't bother me.



Saph_ said:


> Is it common for men to find it hot that they took someone's virginity and they are the only one said virgin has been sleeping with? Is it the purity?


I don't find it hot or otherwise, since I don't care for the idea that women are pure before and somehow soiled or used after.

I've had sex with two at the time virgins (of which I was one at the time with one of them) and I've also turned down two explicit offers of virginity from two women in the past as well.

The first was when I was 16 and she was 18 and we were both virgins and she offered it in the hopes I would be her boyfriend, since I wasn't attracted to her sexually I turned her down. While the second was later when I was 21 and the other woman was 19 I turned down her explicit offer of virginity at a party because I was interested in another woman at that same party.


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## Annette Tush

Fozzy said:


> Another factor comes along with age. Simply put, the older a person is while still maintaining their virginity, the more it indicates that they simply don't have much of a sex drive. And that can spell major trouble down the road.


I find this too bold of a statement. Doesn't it real biol down to the reason as to why they are abstaining.... like if it is for religious beliefs, does that also equate to a low sex drive?


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## WonkyNinja

Saph_ said:


> So, my boyfriend and I were having a conversation about my sister. She recently cheated on her husband and left him and the kids for the other man.
> My boyfriend was talking about how he's not a cheater, could never cheat, his moral integrity isn't worth losing and also the fact that you never know what you could catch from someone.
> 
> Which led to a conversation about me. I was a virgin when I met my boyfriend. He was my first and only. He laughed and said that it's hot to think about the fact that he's the only guy who knows what I'm like and that I'm cleaner than other women. Cleaner in the sense that my only sexual experiences are with him and the fact that he took my virginity and he's the only one who has it is hot to him.
> 
> So my question is, out of curiosity, has it ever been a turn off for any of you men to know that your wife has had sexual experiences before you?
> Is it common for men to find it hot that they took someone's virginity and they are the only one said virgin has been sleeping with? Is it the purity?
> Just curious about what the reasoning is or if this mind set/fantasy? Whatever it is is common or not.


Incidentally were you his first? If the answer is no then for him to describe you as cleaner is pretty hypocritical when it's a standard he can't meet.

Why should you have to put up with a dirty, tainted boyfriend?

I find the description of you being 'cleaner' as derogatory to women. As Ele said it's this archaic value that a woman is spoiled goods once she has had sex.


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## Saph_

WonkyNinja said:


> Incidentally were you his first? If the answer is no then for him to describe you as cleaner is pretty hypocritical when it's a standard he can't meet.
> 
> 
> 
> Why should you have to put up with a dirty, tainted boyfriend?
> 
> 
> 
> I find the description of you being 'cleaner' as derogatory to women. As Ele said it's this archaic value that a woman is spoiled goods once she has had sex.




Nope. He's a few years older than I am and he's slept with past relationships of course. He didn't " sleep around " but he had relationships. He only slept with maybe three women who weren't his girlfriends. 

He was my first but I wasn't his. To be honest, I struggled for a while with that. He chose me, a virgin, when he was way more experienced than I was so I struggled with insecurities with that. Turns out I was one of the few virgins who knew what to do. Common sense helped. Porn maybe. Porn isn't a good portrayal of healthy, loving sex but you know... I don't know how to word what I'm trying to say but he isn't disappointed with me in the least when it comes to that.

Also, I have a higher sex drive than he does so there's times where I actually feel more neglected in that sense than he does. We have yet to have any issues due to my virginity.

I don't believe a woman is less valuable or dirty if she's had sex and he said he doesn't necessarily think that but he does prefer being the only guy a woman has been with.


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## Cletus

Annette Tush said:


> I find this too bold of a statement. Doesn't it real biol down to the reason as to why they are abstaining.... like if it is for religious beliefs, does that also equate to a low sex drive?


Yes, it does. If you can get to say 30 while still a virgin, your ability to suppress your sexual urges for a religious conviction may be laudable from a personal moral perspective, but it says a lot about the strength of your sex drive. Least wise, that's one man's opinion.


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## Annette Tush

Festivus said:


> Yes, it does. If you can get to say 30 while still a virgin, your ability to suppress your sexual urges for a religious conviction may be laudable from a personal moral perspective, but it says a lot about the strength of your sex drive. Least wise, that's one man's opinion.


Interesting. I might divert my what is remaining of my career to "sex drive studies":grin2:


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## CharlieParker

I am pleased, and in hindsight very lucky, I married a sl, err, someone with a great deal of experience.


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## Hope1964

My first husband used to tell me all the time how much of a turn on it was for me to have been a virgin when he met me. I really have no idea why but it never really made much difference to our relationship.

Just chalk it up to one of his quirks and leave it at that


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## Saph_

Okay, seems like the majority would be fairly disappointed if they were to meet me and find out I was a virgin. 
Not all virgins have no idea what to do in bed but it seems to be a popular opinion. 
Lucky for me, my boyfriend has a different opinion. Otherwise I'd be screwed, just because of the assumption that I have no idea what to do. 

Done with the topic.


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## jb02157

Fozzy said:


> It depends on circumstances of course. My wife and I were each others' first and only's.
> 
> Experience and "knowing what to do" is of course a factor, but experience comes with practice, which is half the fun.
> 
> Another factor comes along with age. Simply put, the older a person is while still maintaining their virginity, the more it indicates that they simply don't have much of a sex drive. And that can spell major trouble down the road.


I totally agree with you. I don't see the logic where marrying someone with lots of sexual experience is better. Seems pretty stupid to me.


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## richardsharpe

Good evening
"virgin" means different things to different people. If by "virgin" you mean "had no significant sexual interaction" then I would be concerned that it was due to a lack of interest that might translate into a lack of drive.

If it means "haven't done PIV but have been active in other ways", that might be fine. 

I guess the concern is that someone who is a virgin doesn't know if they will enjoy sex. Some women never do enjoy sex much, and if they end up marrying a HD man, they will both end up unhappy.



Saph_ said:


> Okay, seems like the majority would be fairly disappointed if they were to meet me and find out I was a virgin.
> Not all virgins have no idea what to do in bed but it seems to be a popular opinion.
> Lucky for me, my boyfriend has a different opinion. Otherwise I'd be screwed, just because of the assumption that I have no idea what to do.
> 
> Done with the topic.


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## Cletus

Saph_ said:


> Not all virgins have no idea what to do in bed but it seems to be a popular opinion.


Well, I don't know if the "opinion" is popular or not, seeing as how it's very much a lived experience for some of us.


> Done with the topic.


Sorry our reality offended you.

Imagine waiting for the "right girl", then discovering that staying a virgin before marriage was a simple enough task for her because sex was never really all that important to begin with, before or after the wedding. 

It's not a hypothetical for some of us.


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## Hope1964

If you guys have read her other threads, I think you'd agree that her leaving this one alone now is a GOOD thing.


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## Saph_

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> 
> "virgin" means different things to different people. If by "virgin" you mean "had no significant sexual interaction" then I would be concerned that it was due to a lack of interest that might translate into a lack of drive.
> 
> 
> 
> If it means "haven't done PIV but have been active in other ways", that might be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the concern is that someone who is a virgin doesn't know if they will enjoy sex. Some women never do enjoy sex much, and if they end up marrying a HD man, they will both end up unhappy.




Personally for me, it wasn't a lack of drive. It was because I had no interest in having my first time go to some stupid high school boy with no interest in a committed relationship. I'm by no means religious, but I did want my first time to be special. 
I was tempted thousands of times because I had a high drive but my desire for it to be special over rided it. So I stuck to masturbation and porn until I met my boyfriend. He truly adored me and I felt comfortable enough to have my first time with him at 17. 

That being said, I was one of those chicks who was like " I better study this **** so I can be good for a guy sexually " so I would read up on tips for oral, PIV, positions, etc. Just reading about sex in and of itself was interesting to me. I looked at a lot of porn which no, isn't the best portrayal. The acts are very much real though. I knew what I liked and what I was interested in and what seemed gross, derogatory or whatever, I left. I can still make love without acting like a crazy pornstar if that makes sense. I also kind of used common sense. Like " obviously my boyfriend isn't going to be interested in me just licking this so I better throw a hand in there ". " I assume biting is a no go... " lol, that said, we use communication. I'll ask what he wants and I'll do it. 
I also enjoy basically any action and when I'm interested, I play around. I'm passionate about things I'm interested in and sex is no different. And because I enjoy it, I make it clear that I enjoy it. There's no way I could lay there like a dead person for example. Vanilla sex also gets boring for me. Experimenting is fun to me. 
Maybe it's my passion and interest that makes it exciting for him but he's said that I'm better in bed than his ex (who was a ****).
Mind you, I also love him. I care about his pleasure. I'd NEVER deprive him of sex, that's just cruel. I have a higher drive than he does actually.

So anyway, I respect everyone's opinions and I'm not at all offended, I am just saying that not all virgins don't know what to do. People with tons of sexual experience don't always know better. I know that doesn't make sense but it does if you look deep into it, lol. That being said, I don't think I'm more or less better than someone who's the opposite, just like they aren't better or worse than me. I certainly don't shake my head at someone with experience. All the more power to ya. 
I guess some men just have preferences. Just don't be stereotypical about it and think that a virgin wouldn't know the first thing about what to do.


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## Saph_

Hope1964 said:


> If you guys have read her other threads, I think you'd agree that her leaving this one alone now is a GOOD thing.



Thread(s)?

I have one other thread about a topic that I didn't think would particularly interest men.


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## Hope1964

I think avoiding negativity, especially about your sex life and your partner, is a good thing. That's all


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## norajane

Saph_ said:


> Personally for me, it wasn't a lack of drive. It was because I had no interest in having my first time go to some stupid high school boy with no interest in a committed relationship. I'm by no means religious, but I did want my first time to be special.
> I was tempted thousands of times because I had a high drive but my desire for it to be special over rided it. So I stuck to masturbation and porn until I met my boyfriend. He truly adored me and I felt comfortable enough to have my first time with him at 17.


I doubt anyone would have fears about a girl's sex drive when she had sex for the first time at 17 (especially one who has a child with another on the way, at your age of 21). 

People are concerned about sex drives when someone is a virgin into their 20's and 30's. Then it seems less about wanting to find the right person and raises questions about whether they actually have a strong enough sex drive. Like you, most people who are eager to have sex have it early on, and don't wait until they are in their late 20's to have sex.


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## richardsharpe

good evening
that sounds great, and I think you have a wonderful attitude about sex.

Back in my dating days, I certainly would have been very open to having a virgin prove my assumptions to be wrong.....:laugh:

BTW, I don't consider loosing your virginity at 17 to be at all unusual. I was more thinking of women who waited until say 25. (which might still be completely fine, but could be concerning).




Saph_ said:


> Personally for me, it wasn't a lack of drive. It was because I had no interest in having my first time go to some stupid high school boy with no interest in a committed relationship. I'm by no means religious, but I did want my first time to be special.
> I was tempted thousands of times because I had a high drive but my desire for it to be special over rided it. So I stuck to masturbation and porn until I met my boyfriend. He truly adored me and I felt comfortable enough to have my first time with him at 17.
> 
> That being said, I was one of those chicks who was like " I better study this **** so I can be good for a guy sexually " so I would read up on tips for oral, PIV, positions, etc. Just reading about sex in and of itself was interesting to me. I looked at a lot of porn which no, isn't the best portrayal. The acts are very much real though. I knew what I liked and what I was interested in and what seemed gross, derogatory or whatever, I left. I can still make love without acting like a crazy pornstar if that makes sense. I also kind of used common sense. Like " obviously my boyfriend isn't going to be interested in me just licking this so I better throw a hand in there ". " I assume biting is a no go... " lol, that said, we use communication. I'll ask what he wants and I'll do it.
> I also enjoy basically any action and when I'm interested, I play around. I'm passionate about things I'm interested in and sex is no different. And because I enjoy it, I make it clear that I enjoy it. There's no way I could lay there like a dead person for example. Vanilla sex also gets boring for me. Experimenting is fun to me.
> Maybe it's my passion and interest that makes it exciting for him but he's said that I'm better in bed than his ex (who was a ****).
> Mind you, I also love him. I care about his pleasure. I'd NEVER deprive him of sex, that's just cruel. I have a higher drive than he does actually.
> 
> So anyway, I respect everyone's opinions and I'm not at all offended, I am just saying that not all virgins don't know what to do. People with tons of sexual experience don't always know better. I know that doesn't make sense but it does if you look deep into it, lol. That being said, I don't think I'm more or less better than someone who's the opposite, just like they aren't better or worse than me. I certainly don't shake my head at someone with experience. All the more power to ya.
> I guess some men just have preferences. Just don't be stereotypical about it and think that a virgin wouldn't know the first thing about what to do.


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## Cletus

Saph_ said:


> I was tempted thousands of times because I had a high drive but my desire for it to be special over rided it. So I stuck to masturbation and porn until I met my boyfriend. He truly adored me and I felt comfortable enough to have my first time with him at 17.


Thanks for helping to prove our point. You were a high drive person who managed to hold on to her virginity to the *unmarried* Ripe Old Age of 17 while studying everything in sight pertaining to sex.

You're not the person to whom we are referring.


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## Fozzy

Annette Tush said:


> I find this too bold of a statement. Doesn't it real biol down to the reason as to why they are abstaining.... like if it is for religious beliefs, does that also equate to a low sex drive?


There are exceptions to everything. I grew up with a lot of religious people. Most of them who chose to hang on to their virginity until marriage ended up marrying early, which is not any kind of indication about their drive at all.

Does motivation matter? Somewhat, sure. But so does biology. And the longer you are able to suppress biology, the weaker it gets, not stronger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WasDecimated

It wasn't my XWW's sexual experiences before we were married that bothered me, It was the ones she had after...

Finding a virgin at my age would be impossible and even if I did, I would suspicious if she was telling me the truth or she was just a "born-again" virgin. The thought of being with a virgin doesn't turn me on or off. I guess I'm neutral on that one. I have actually grown to value some experience in a woman. Ideally, the same or similar to me. I believe it would make her more interesting and fun. I was a virgin until my early 20's. At that time, I was more interested in finding someone with few or no sexual experiences. Now I would prefer to find someone that has more but limited their sexual experiences to meaningful, committed relationships such as marriage. I don't consider Hookups, ONS's and FWB's, meaningful relationships.

I always placed a high value on sex in any relationship I was ever in. Sex is something I respected and never threw it around casually. I always felt that level of intimacy should be earned, starting with a friendship and growing to a commitment. I couldn't respect someone who was giving it away to anyone any time they felt a tingle even if it was before we before we met. That would cheapen their value in my eyes. Also, it wouldn't do much to make me feel special if I was with them.


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## Mr. Nail

I was a virgin groom.

Where will you go with that? 

I'm the HD partner 30 years later. So it can't be a lack of drive. I didn't wait till 30 to get married though. I was nervous about my lack of practical experience. But you can't exactly slap me with the Double standard, unless you knew this one troubling thing. I has a bit relieved when I thought my fiance wasn't virginal. (turns out I was mistaken and we took the plunge together). I wasn't worried about the chances of her being a lousy lover, I figured it couldn't be that tough of a skill to learn if you had two obviously enthusiastic learners, and it didn't work out to badly.

To answer the original post. I wasn't turned on or off by virginity. I was in love with a person. Not with some preconceived image of a person.


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## Saph_

Decimated said:


> It wasn't my XWW's sexual experiences before we were married that bothered me, It was the ones she had after...
> 
> 
> 
> Finding a virgin at my age would be impossible and even if I did, I would suspicious if she was telling me the truth or she was just a "born-again" virgin. The thought of being with a virgin doesn't turn me on or off. I guess I'm neutral on that one. I have actually grown to value some experience in a woman. Ideally, the same or similar to me. I believe it would make her more interesting and fun. I was a virgin until my early 20's. At that time, I was more interested in finding someone with few or no sexual experiences. Now I would prefer to find someone that has more but limited their sexual experiences to meaningful, committed relationships such as marriage. I don't consider Hookups, ONS's and FWB's, meaningful relationships.
> 
> 
> 
> I always placed a high value on sex in any relationship I was ever in. Sex is something I respected and never threw it around casually. I always felt that level of intimacy should be earned, starting with a friendship and growing to a commitment. I couldn't respect someone who was giving it away to anyone any time they felt a tingle even if it was before we before we met. That would cheapen their value in my eyes. Also, it wouldn't do much to make me feel special if I was with them.




Totally agree, thank you! Very well written too.


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## WonkyNinja

Saph_ said:


> Nope. He's a few years older than I am and he's slept with past relationships of course. He didn't " sleep around " but he had relationships. He only slept with maybe three women who weren't his girlfriends.


3 who weren't his girlfriends + how many more. There are other discussions on this board where women are being trashed because they enjoyed their sex life when young but then want to find a "good guy" to marry. He is the exact reverse of that.

Can I ask both your ages?



Saph_ said:


> He was my first but I wasn't his. To be honest, I struggled for a while with that. He chose me, a virgin, when he was way more experienced than I was so I struggled with insecurities with that. Turns out I was one of the few virgins who knew what to do. Common sense helped. Porn maybe. Porn isn't a good portrayal of healthy, loving sex but you know... I don't know how to word what I'm trying to say but he isn't disappointed with me in the least when it comes to that.
> 
> Also, I have a higher sex drive than he does so there's times *where I actually feel more neglected in that sense than he does*. We have yet to have any issues due to my virginity.
> 
> I don't believe a woman is less valuable or dirty if she's had sex and he said he doesn't necessarily think that but he does prefer being the only guy a woman has been with.


I'm sure he does, everyone like to have their cake and eat it.

The bit bolded above. You two need to get that issue resolved before you get married. It will not magically get better, in all probability it will get worse. Resolving the issue does not mean he tells you that it will be OK and he'll make the effort. If you are compatible it isn't an effort to make it should come naturally if you both have the same needs and desires.

If you read through many of the threads here you will find that sexual incompatibility is a huge problem in marriage and many of the people with issues missed the red flags before they got married. Some were flat out lied to by their other half, me included.


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## Saph_

WonkyNinja said:


> 3 who weren't his girlfriends + how many more. There are other discussions on this board where women are being trashed because they enjoyed their sex life when young but then want to find a "good guy" to marry. He is the exact reverse of that.
> 
> 
> 
> Can I ask both your ages?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure he does, everyone like to have their cake and eat it.
> 
> 
> 
> The bit bolded above. You two need to get that issue resolved before you get married. It will not magically get better, in all probability it will get worse. Resolving the issue does not mean he tells you that it will be OK and he'll make the effort. If you are compatible it isn't an effort to make it should come naturally if you both have the same needs and desires.
> 
> 
> 
> If you read through many of the threads here you will find that sexual incompatibility is a huge problem in marriage and many of the people with issues missed the red flags before they got married. Some were flat out lied to by their other half, me included.




Uh, he's slept with 10 women in total. Me being the 11th, and hopefully the last. I think it's that. That or he's been with 9 women and I'm his 10th. Either 9 or 10 before he met me total women.
Which at first intimidated me because he had 9-10 compared to me, who had 0. Except for I experimented with a girl in my teens. 

I turned 21 in March, he's 29 turning 30 in July. 

He says that he doesn't prioritize sex that much. Emotional intimacy matters more to him than sexual intimacy which is great and all. He's happy with sex three times a week or so.

When we began our own sexual relationship, I wanted it, like, everyday. I had never had it before and it was awesome so I was like " wow, I gotta cherish this, this is awesome! ". Now I don't need it everyday. Especially now that we have a toddler, I don't necessarily even want it everyday anymore currently.

It should also be said that if I initiated sex, he would have it maybe three times a week. But he can go a week, sometimes longer without initiating. I have tested this to see what his drive is like, and honestly, he could go weeks. This isn't me. I don't get that bothered because I can easily masturbate and enjoy myself. It's not the same as sex though. 
He's not depressed or anything, he just finds a lot of enjoyment in doing other things too and doesn't " need sex that often " according to him. 
I don't argue because well, I don't want to be naggy. I've argued with this before and it just ends with him getting defensive and me shutting down and just letting it go.


----------



## Saph_

That being said, he just said " man, your freaking tits " so he acknowledges that I'm attractive and likes my stuff but he doesn't want anything sexual.

I'm not saying he should want to have sex every time he compliments me, I'm just saying that the compliments even when sexual are cute but he doesn't feel the need to play with them currently.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Saph_ said:


> Lucky for me, my boyfriend has a different opinion. Otherwise *I'd be screwed*, just because of the assumption that I have no idea what to do.
> 
> Done with the topic.


Or not as the case may be. :grin2:


----------



## thefam

@Saph_

Believe it or not I totally get what your boyfriend said, but I think he expressed it poorly. My husband was my first, and it made no difference to him that I was a virgin. We began dating when I was 18 and he was 22, although we had known each other for 4 years (during which time he didn't give me the time of day but that did nothing to extinguish the "crush" I had on him from the moment I laid eyes on him).

Anyway, it did not matter to him whether or not I was a virgin. But the fact that I was, was special to him. That being special to him doesn't mean that any other woman would have been "dirty" or "unclean" or "tainted" in his eyes. It just meant that because I was a virgin, and have only been with him, he considers that special. And that's not an indictment on any other girl he could have been with or ultimately, married. 

As for the "experience" thing, as a virgin, I knew NOTHING. My husband taught me everything I know for the first 9 or so years of our marriage. Then my kinky side awakened and I have introduced some new "concepts" to our love life. LOL! But our sex life has always been passionate and hot (except for a short time period when birth control pills made my sex drive plummet). 

One question though, and I hope you don't get offended. Since your virginity is so precious to him, why won't he marry you instead of having babies out of wedlock?


----------



## knobcreek

Honestly who cares if a guy thinks it's hot that his wife/girlfriend's vagina is un-entered by another man? Why would that preference bother anyone? He like's that his girl was a virgin, so what? Not sure why the guy is demonized for it in this thread.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Saph_ said:


> That being said, he just said " man, your freaking tits " so he acknowledges that I'm attractive and likes my stuff but he doesn't want anything sexual.


Sounds like a true romantic. :smile2:

I may make comments like that to my wife, partly in jest, but they are a part of an active and loving sex life, not in lieu of one.


----------



## RClawson

Have never been bothered by the fact that my wife was with someone before we met. I have been bothered for 30 years by the fact that she did not tell me it was one of my friends.


----------



## WorkingWife

knobcreek said:


> Like I said I like my women a little sl*tty so I don't follow that train of thought, but the double standard comes from tens of thousands of years of societal evolution. the ONLY way a man could guarantee his child was his is if he was certain he married a virgin and she didn't sleep with anyone until she became pregnant.
> 
> When a woman has a child their is no doubt about the status of the child being hers, but with a man it's always up in the air, so the double standard makes sense in context. I think something like 15% of children born in a marriage are not actually the husbands kid, so maybe there's something to it.


Also, in "the old days" the only way a woman could guarantee a roof over her and her child's heads was to be married to the father, so the consequences of casual sex were much more risky than today, not that they still aren't risky today. 

It was definitely a double standard, but women potentially had (and still have) a lot more to lose from casual assignations than men, and I think the double standard reflects that.


----------



## Saph_

*I'm &quot; cleaner than others &quot; in his eyes?*



thefam said:


> @Saph_
> 
> Believe it or not I totally get what your boyfriend said, but I think he expressed it poorly. My husband was my first, and it made no difference to him that I was a virgin. We began dating when I was 18 and he was 22, although we had known each other for 4 years (during which time he didn't give me the time of day but that did nothing to extinguish the "crush" I had on him from the moment I laid eyes on him).
> 
> Anyway, it did not matter to him whether or not I was a virgin. But the fact that I was, was special to him. That being special to him doesn't mean that any other woman would have been "dirty" or "unclean" or "tainted" in his eyes. It just meant that because I was a virgin, and have only been with him, he considers that special. And that's not an indictment on any other girl he could have been with or ultimately, married.
> 
> As for the "experience" thing, as a virgin, I knew NOTHING. My husband taught me everything I know for the first 9 or so years of our marriage. Then my kinky side awakened and I have introduced some new "concepts" to our love life. LOL! But our sex life has always been passionate and hot (except for a short time period when birth control pills made my sex drive plummet).
> 
> One question though, and I hope you don't get offended. Since your virginity is so precious to him, why won't he marry you instead of having babies out of wedlock?




We weren't expecting to have children so early. I was on birth control (Nuva ring) and I got pregnant anyway. 
Also, I hope this doesn't offend you or anyone else but marriage isn't that important. I don't feel the need to be " married " to show my love and commitment. The " need " to get married just shows insecurity. That or religion. In my personal opinion. It's cool to want to get married. But if it's a NEED, that seems odd in my opinion. Obviously two people who love each other can get married if they so wish but it's not a necessity. We've talked about marriage. We plan on getting married ourselves. For now, I'm 21. I have more important things to worry about than getting married. We love each other and are committed to each other. We don't need marriage to prove that.

Another thing I wanted to quickly tackle is that both my boyfriend and I will feel very secure and comfortable going into a marriage in a few years down the road. We picked each other when we both had nothing. He had no money. I had no money. Neither of us had anything outstanding that would make the other think we were using each other for our advantage.

That makes a lot more sense to base a relationship on, actual love and commitment and " I don't care what you have or don't have, I love you anyway " rather than a " we need to get married asap because God forbid we have children out of wedlock. "

As if that affects anything. 

When I marry my boyfriend, he'll know I married him because I love him. It's just about being ready and prioritizing what needs prioritizing before worrying about getting married. 

Nobody has looked down on us for " having babies out of wedlock " either. Lol. 

I mean, we both wear rings on our married fingers. That's more promise rings than anything. He kind of proposed to me after the birth of our first son, I said yes but we never really made anything super official and we definitely aren't planning a wedding yet. And that's of my choosing. Not his.


----------



## Saph_

Okay, my boyfriend wasn't necessarily trying to say that other women are filthy if they've had sex before. He just prefers someone who hasn't. It's not a bad thing, not sure why some seem to be taking it personally or getting offended.
People have preferences. Yes, if a woman just had sex every time she felt a tingle, my boyfriend wouldn't be as turned on compared to a woman who cherished the desire to be with someone she had an emotional connection with, aka: me.

Relax.


----------



## tech-novelist

Saph_ said:


> Okay, my boyfriend wasn't necessarily trying to say that other women are filthy if they've had sex before. He just prefers someone who hasn't. It's not a bad thing, not sure why some seem to be taking it personally or getting offended.
> People have preferences. Yes, if a woman just had sex every time she felt a tingle, my boyfriend wouldn't be as turned on compared to a woman who cherished the desire to be with someone she had an emotional connection with, aka: me.
> 
> Relax.


I see nothing at all wrong with this.

I think it is sad that anyone wants to bash someone for this preference.

If it is unfair for an experienced man to prefer a virginal bride (or girlfriend in this case), then it is unfair for women to prefer men taller than themselves or wealthier than themselves, as both of those are a double standard as well. Yet we don't hear much criticism of those preferences, do we?


----------



## Saph_

WonkyNinja said:


> Sounds like a true romantic. :smile2:
> 
> 
> 
> I may make comments like that to my wife, partly in jest, but they are a part of an active and loving sex life, not in lieu of one.




Well, I got action this morning.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

knobcreek said:


> Honestly who cares if a guy thinks it's hot that his wife/girlfriend's vagina is un-entered by another man? Why would that preference bother anyone? He like's that his girl was a virgin, so what? Not sure why the guy is demonized for it in this thread.


You will see this consistently on this forum.. oh Hell my husband would be the Devil Incarnate!.. Like @thefam was speaking about her husband (though mine hasn't had other partners himself)... he feels it's *"very special"* that we've only been with each other.. he has commented before saying.. "It just wouldn't be the same" otherwise.. 

I'm sure feeling this way is something wrapped into our romanticism with each other....we are both sentimental like that, neither of us were the type to care about "experience" .... it was so much more about WHO we are with and what that MEANT TO US...

So yeah.. for some of us.. it is very special.. there is no one else to compare, we awakened each other, and shared every vulnerable moment, growing together...emotionally & pleasurably... 

My husband would not speak of others as not "as clean"....it's just a preference to find a partner who felt similar about what sex meant to them...someone who couldn't separate love & sex, to him sex is about "bonding" .... he would still have wanted / been attracted to me had I had a prior partner or 2 ..if those relationships were "committed relationships", love was involved...

But had I been with someone who went from man to man to man and thought nothing of it, one night stands.. no big deal / it's FUN.. we would never have been compatible.. and rightly so.

I also wanted a man with a similar mindset..."Bad Boy" types were not for me.


----------



## Cletus

Saph_ said:


> Yes, if a woman just had sex every time she felt a tingle, my boyfriend wouldn't be as turned on compared to a woman who cherished the desire to be with someone she had an emotional connection with, aka: me.
> 
> Relax.


Either I'm reading your intent very poorly, which is possible, or you simply don't understand how patronizing that sentence above sounds. There's a REALLY big gap between having sex every time you get a tingle and remaining completely chaste before marriage, just for starters. It's not a binary proposition. 

If I read just a little between the lines, which my wife insists that I must do when communicating with a woman, then you consider a woman who does not necessarily "cherish a desire to be with someone with whom she has an emotional connection" for every sexual encounter as inferior to the woman who does. 

The only issue I have with long-term virgins is simply a practical matter of potential sexual incompatibility with a spouse. Since sex is one of the top two items of marital discord, it would seem reasonable to vet a mate regarding sex just as thoroughly as you would over her credit card debt, if you wish to remain happily married.


----------



## Saph_

Festivus said:


> Either I'm reading your intent very poorly, which is possible, or you simply don't understand how patronizing that sentence above sounds. There's a REALLY big gap between having sex every time you get a tingle and remaining completely chaste before marriage, just for starters. It's not a binary proposition.
> 
> If I read just a little between the lines, which my wife insists that I must do when communicating with a woman, then you consider a woman who does not necessarily "cherish a desire to be with someone with whom she has an emotional connection" for every sexual encounter as inferior to the woman who does.
> 
> The only issue I have with long-term virgins is simply a practical matter of potential sexual incompatibility with a spouse. Since sex is one of the top two items of marital discord, it would seem reasonable to vet a mate regarding sex just as thoroughly as you would over her credit card debt, if you wish to remain happily married.




I'm just repeating what my boyfriend says, which is how he explains it. He prefers someone like me who has only had sex with someone I had an emotional connection with (him). 
In his mind, he feels safer with someone like me because he feels that I'm less likely to cheat on him for the sake of cheating. He thinks it would be more difficult for me to build an emotional connection with someone and then have sex, rather than meeting some dude and having sex. 
He feels like I am " cleaner " because I'm less likely to have get an STD because I don't just sleep around with anyone I feel like sleeping around.

I'm just repeating what he says.


----------



## Saph_

He also feels that sex that has emotional connection is more special than someone who just has sex for the sake of having sex.


----------



## EleGirl

Saph_ said:


> He also feels that sex that has emotional connection is more special than someone who just has sex for the sake of having sex.


Did he have a strong emotional connection to all 10 or so woman he had sex with?

Are you say that he would be ok if you had had sex in past with another guy (or guys) as long as you had a strong emotional connection and considered them special?

He's not boyfriend, not your husband. The chance of this being a life-long relationship for you is very low.

So now you are "unclean" to all men other than your boyfriend. You see how it works?


----------



## EleGirl

Saph_ said:


> I'm just repeating what my boyfriend says, which is how he explains it. He prefers someone like me who has only had sex with someone I had an emotional connection with (him).
> 
> *In his mind, he feels safer with someone like me because he feels that I'm less likely to cheat on him for the sake of cheating.* He thinks it would be more difficult for me to build an emotional connection with someone and then have sex, rather than meeting some dude and having sex.
> 
> He feels like I am " cleaner " because I'm less likely to have get an STD because I don't just sleep around with anyone I feel like sleeping around.
> 
> I'm just repeating what he says.


Do you realize that if it is true that more sexual partners in the past means that a person is more likely to cheat... that it means that he's highly likely to cheat because he's had several previous sexual partners? Why are you not concerned about him cheating?


----------



## Bibi1031

EleGirl said:


> Do you realize that if it is true that more sexual partners in the past means that a person is more likely to cheat... that it means that he's highly likely to cheat because he's had several previous sexual partners? *Why are you not concerned about him cheating?*




Well, you are 21 Saph. Your 2nd son is almost due. You want to believe your boyfriend that you are special and cleaner in his eyes, yet he hasn't bothered to make a decent woman out of you!

I think you have a lot of bigger things to be concerned by than believing your boyfriends words. 

His ACTIONS speak louder that his words. Him using porn often is very telling as well.


----------



## WorkingWife

Saph_ said:


> Okay, my boyfriend wasn't necessarily trying to say that other women are filthy if they've had sex before. He just prefers someone who hasn't. It's not a bad thing, not sure why some seem to be taking it personally or getting offended.
> People have preferences. Yes, if a woman just had sex every time she felt a tingle, my boyfriend wouldn't be as turned on compared to a woman who cherished the desire to be with someone she had an emotional connection with, aka: me.
> 
> Relax.


I agree. There is a reason there is the saying:

A man dreams of being a woman's first love; a woman dreams of being a man's last love.

My H does not like it when I say anything about someone I was with before him. I used to feel very frustrated like he didn't really want to know me, but I came to understand - he just didn't like to think of other men having been there. I think that's more common than this thread would indicate.

There can only be one first and your BF knows he's special that he is that first.

With that said, if things don't work out between you two in the long run, the fact that you're no longer a virgin will not be an impediment in finding another great guy.


----------



## zzzman99

WorkingWife said:


> I agree. There is a reason there is the saying:
> 
> A man dreams of being a woman's first love; a woman dreams of being a man's last love.
> 
> My H does not like it when I say anything about someone I was with before him. I used to feel very frustrated like he didn't really want to know me, but I came to understand - he just didn't like to think of other men having been there. I think that's more common than this thread would indicate.
> 
> There can only be one first and your BF knows he's special that he is that first.
> 
> With that said, if things don't work out between you two in the long run, the fact that you're no longer a virgin will not be an impediment in finding another great guy.



Guess what folks, Men and Women are different. And all of the mental gymnastics one plays to say otherwise is nonsense. Men see things differently than women and one is not more correct than the other. 

Additionally, there is a correlation between the number of lovers for a women and the divorce rate. If you want to marry someone and stay with them, sorry folks, but the stats say to choose a virgin.


----------



## Cletus

zzzman99 said:


> Additionally, there is a correlation between the number of lovers for a women and the divorce rate. If you want to marry someone and stay with them, sorry folks, but the stats say to choose a virgin.


Good luck showing causation for that correlation. 

The causative agent in such a statistic might just as easily prove to be the men doing the choosing as it is the women they choose.


----------



## WorkingWife

Bibi1031 said:


> [/B]
> 
> Well, you are 21 Saph. Your 2nd son is almost due. You want to believe your boyfriend that you are special and cleaner in his eyes, yet he hasn't bothered to make a decent woman out of you!


This is a really good point. Why are you having children together when not married? I don't think there's anything wrong with him liking the idea of Saph being a virgin, but this does not show that Saph is special to him or that he cherish's her in any way. Nor does it show good sense on her part that she would have children with a man who was not begging her to marry him first.


----------



## norajane

SimplyAmorous said:


> My husband would not speak of others as not "as clean"....it's just a preference to find a partner who felt similar about what sex meant to them...


Yes, in OP's case, this is the crux of the issue. OP's boyfriend himself has slept with 10 women, so he obviously wasn't talking about having a preference for a partner that felt the same way about sex as he does. 

His language about the cleanliness is the problem, IMO. I don't care what he thinks or believe or how he lives his life, but the OP should care very much that this is how he views women and sex, in terms of dirty and clean!

Because if SHE accepts and embraces his view (because it makes her feel special, for now), she will have some very difficult times in terms of self worth and self esteem if this relationship does end at some point - she can't help but think of herself as dirty and unclean and used goods then if she buys into his definitions now when it works in her favor.


----------



## WonkyNinja

Saph_ said:


> I'm just repeating what my boyfriend says, which is how he explains it. *He prefers someone like me who has only had sex with someone I had an emotional connection with (him).*
> In his mind, he feels safer with someone like me because he feels that I'm less likely to cheat on him for the sake of cheating. He thinks it would be more difficult for me to build an emotional connection with someone and then have sex, rather than meeting some dude and having sex.
> *He feels like I am " cleaner " because I'm less likely to have get an STD because I don't just sleep around with anyone I feel like sleeping around.*
> 
> I'm just repeating what he says.





Saph_ said:


> *He also feels that sex that has emotional connection is more special than someone who just has sex for the sake of having sex.*


Talk about "Do as I say, not as I do". He's had sex with 10 others, of which 3 weren't even girlfriends, and then gives you all the lines about how special the attraction is because you have only been with him.

I'm not intending to criticize you here but setting standards for others that you don't hold to yourself is not a good characteristic in someone.


----------



## WorkingWife

norajane said:


> ...His language about the cleanliness is the problem, IMO....


I think people are getting overly hung up on his use of the word "clean." But technically, she IS "clean" compared to most women her age. 

If he said that was WHY he wanted to be with her, or virginity was a prerequisite for a woman to be with him, when he's been with 10 women (at least...) then I could see the cause of the kerfuffle. But the fact that he likes/appreciates that he's her one and only - that in and of itself seems harmless to me. His being her only one appeals to him. That's just a fact. 

People (women in particular) will say they want to know their mates true feelings. And then when their mate says what he or she really feels, they freak out and say he's bad for feeling that way.

I'm much more concerned about the fact that this guy is knocking her without the commitment and legal protections of marriage than I am that he digs the idea that no one else has been swimming in his pool.


----------



## Saph_

Bibi1031 said:


> [/B]
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you are 21 Saph. Your 2nd son is almost due. You want to believe your boyfriend that you are special and cleaner in his eyes, yet he hasn't bothered to make a decent woman out of you!
> 
> 
> 
> I think you have a lot of bigger things to be concerned by than believing your boyfriends words.
> 
> 
> 
> His ACTIONS speak louder that his words. Him using porn often is very telling as well.




Wow, highly appreciate the attacks I've received. I'll leave.

How is porn " very telling "? Elaborate or don't bother saying anything.

Make a " decent woman out of me "? There was no need to insult me as I'm literally only repeating what he says to me. I originally came here because I was wondering if that was a common thing. I never said I agree with everything he thinks either. But thanks. 

Thanks guys, I'm done.


----------



## Saph_

Also, if any of you actually read my posts, you'd know that I got pregnant while on birth control.


----------



## EleGirl

zzzman99 said:


> Guess what folks, Men and Women are different. And all of the mental gymnastics one plays to say otherwise is nonsense. Men see things differently than women and one is not more correct than the other.
> 
> Additionally, there is a correlation between the number of lovers for a women and the divorce rate. If you want to marry someone and stay with them, sorry folks, but the stats say to choose a virgin.


There is also a correlation between the number of sex partners a man has had and divorce rate. It goes both ways. 


There are a good number of men today who do not hold the view that her boyfriend holds. It's not a give that all men have the view that any woman who is not a virgin is spoiled meat ... unclean. After all by this point of view, the OP is now unclean.


----------



## EleGirl

Saph_ said:


> Also, if any of you actually read my posts, you'd know that I got pregnant while on birth control.


Birth control is known to fail. It's not 100% fool proof.

You had an unplanned baby. Many woman do.

Sex is known to lead to babies. The more of it you have, the more likely you will get pregnant, even if you are using birth control.

So... given all that, what's your point?


----------



## EleGirl

Saph_ said:


> Wow, highly appreciate the attacks I've received. I'll leave.
> 
> How is porn " very telling "? Elaborate or don't bother saying anything.
> 
> Make a " decent woman out of me "? There was no need to insult me as I'm literally only repeating what he says to me. I originally came here because I was wondering if that was a common thing. I never said I agree with everything he thinks either. But thanks.
> 
> Thanks guys, I'm done.


You and your boyfriend believe that you are a woman of more value than most (or other women) because you have had sex only with him. That is the moral value by which you and he judge women… according to your thread title, most women (women other than you) are not “clean”.

Bibi comes from a culture that believes that a woman needs to be MARRIED before she has sex. Maybe even that both men and women need to be married before sex. So in her culture, you are not ‘decent’. How is that any harsher than your harsh, judgmental statement?

I see little difference between you calling other women “unclean” (or not as clean as you) and Bibi using the world ‘decent’ to mean that a woman who is living with a guy and having sex out of wedlock is in a precarious positon. And he needs to make a decent woman out of her and marry her already.

You came here and insulted a lot of women on this forum by stating that we are not “clean” like you. That is an insulting and self-aggrandizing statement.

What you (and your boyfriend) are doing is splitting social/cultural/ethical beliefs to suit your purpose. Either virginity is important and women should wait until marriage to have sex, or it’s not important. You two choose to throw out the marriage part of that formula.

The premise of your thread is basically an insult of a lot of the women who post here. I lost of us have had sex with more than one man. For many of us it was because a marriage ended in divorce or a spouse died. But according to you and your boyfriend, we are not “clean”. Thanks for the insult. When you are judging and insulting people, do not be surprised if someone comes back at you to highlight your hypocrisy.


----------



## zzzman99

EleGirl said:


> There is also a correlation between the number of sex partners a man has had and divorce rate. It goes both ways.
> 
> 
> There are a good number of men today who do not hold the view that her boyfriend holds. It's not a give that all men have the view that any woman who is not a virgin is spoiled meat ... unclean. After all by this point of view, the OP is now unclean.


It does go both ways. But these studies say that women are more affected than men. Sorry.


----------



## EleGirl

zzzman99 said:


> It does go both ways. But these studies say that women are more affected than men. Sorry.


No, most of the studies have been done only looking at women. There are some that look at both men and women and show that there is little difference.


Here's a very recent study that says things are changing. Women with 2 sexual partners divorce more often with women with 9+ partners.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160606082607.htm


----------



## NobodySpecial

So OP, All other advice aside, you have two kids. You are not married. Husbands are assumed to be the father by law, their names added to the birth certificates. Is your BF on their birth certificates? In any event, find out the laws about the kids' rights in the event of a break up. Have it in your back pocket for when you need it.


----------



## soccermom2three

Speaking as someone that has only been with my husband, I have a problem with the word "clean". To me, that screams of someone that has issues with sex.


----------



## Holland

Well between this and your other thread the first thought is that your partner is a little on the creepy side. I would put $10 on it that he will leave you for some other young virgin at some point. He has some issues to deal with and you are being taken along for the ride.


----------



## zzzman99

EleGirl said:


> No, most of the studies have been done only looking at women. There are some that look at both men and women and show that there is little difference.
> 
> 
> Here's a very recent study that says things are changing. Women with 2 sexual partners divorce more often with women with 9+ partners.
> 
> https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160606082607.htm


"They claim this finding is especially true for women, writing in the report, “We further found that the more sexual partners a woman had had before marriage, the less happy she reported her marriage to be.”

New Study Claims People Who've Had More Sexual Partners Report Unhappier Marriages


----------



## Saph_

*I'm &quot; cleaner than others &quot; in his eyes?*



EleGirl said:


> You and your boyfriend believe that you are a woman of more value than most (or other women) because you have had sex only with him. That is the moral value by which you and he judge women… according to your thread title, most women (women other than you) are not “clean”.
> 
> 
> 
> Bibi comes from a culture that believes that a woman needs to be MARRIED before she has sex. Maybe even that both men and women need to be married before sex. So in her culture, you are not ‘decent’. How is that any harsher than your harsh, judgmental statement?
> 
> 
> 
> I see little difference between you calling other women “unclean” (or not as clean as you) and Bibi using the world ‘decent’ to mean that a woman who is living with a guy and having sex out of wedlock is in a precarious positon. And he needs to make a decent woman out of her and marry her already.
> 
> 
> 
> You came here and insulted a lot of women on this forum by stating that we are not “clean” like you. That is an insulting and self-aggrandizing statement.
> 
> 
> 
> What you (and your boyfriend) are doing is splitting social/cultural/ethical beliefs to suit your purpose. Either virginity is important and women should wait until marriage to have sex, or it’s not important. You two choose to throw out the marriage part of that formula.
> 
> 
> 
> The premise of your thread is basically an insult of a lot of the women who post here. I lost of us have had sex with more than one man. For many of us it was because a marriage ended in divorce or a spouse died. But according to you and your boyfriend, we are not “clean”. Thanks for the insult. When you are judging and insulting people, do not be surprised if someone comes back at you to highlight your hypocrisy.




It's actually not my boyfriend's responsibility if some of you took offense to his comment, honestly. 

May I also add that I even said in the thread title " in HIS eyes " which meant he's the one with the thoughts and feelings on this topic, not me. So don't attack or insult ME. I can pass on the message but don't insult me in the process.

It's clear a few of you aren't even reading what I'm posting. Those are my boyfriend's thoughts, not my own. I don't agree with absolutely everything he says but when he first said that comment originally, I was confused and wanted to know if his thoughts/feelings were common/what they meant, etc.

I don't think women who have had sex are less than I am. I don't think I'm special either. I don't know where some of you are getting these idea's but you're taking it way out of context. I certainly had no intentions of " insulting " anyone. 

Also, for the love of God, he just PREFERS someone who hasn't had a bunch of sex prior to him. He feels safer with that. I disagree with that personally. I don't think I'm " less likely to cheat " than another woman just because I haven't had a bunch of sex. Cheating is due to bad morals and frankly, a crappy personality and a woman who has had sex before could have better morals and a better personality than someone who's a virgin. 
I think a woman who is in charge of her sex life and does what she wants is awesome, that's empowerment. All the more power to women who like sex. 

He just prefers someone LIKE me because he's the only man I've been with and he finds that attractive and a sense of trust that another man doesn't have. It's a connection and intimacy that I haven't had with anyone else. Does that make more sense? I don't think he thinks other women are dirty or filthy if they've had sex.
And I'm definitely not trying to insult anyone either. I don't know why you all took it upon yourselves to insult and bash my relationship just because I'm not married and have children before marriage. That's not cool. I would never try to make you all feel insecure in your relationships/marriages. 

I was just repeating what my boyfriend said and you act as if I'm the most evil person on Earth even though I don't agree with everything he says. I guess I should have clearly stated that originally though it doesn't always seem like some of you read all my posts.


----------



## Saph_

Holland said:


> Well between this and your other thread the first thought is that your partner is a little on the creepy side. I would put $10 on it that he will leave you for some other young virgin at some point. He has some issues to deal with and you are being taken along for the ride.




Not sure why you felt the need to put an awful idea in my head just because you took some offense to what my boyfriend says/thinks.

I doubt he would leave me for another virgin. He appreciates the fact that he's the only man I've been with. He doesn't feel the need to have another one apparently. 

There was seriously no need for this comment. This was written for the sole purpose to make me feel like crap even though I haven't done anything. I was repeating what my boyfriend said. I was repeating his thoughts trying to get clarification. When I got it, I was fine. Then I eventually had to keep defending myself because some of you took it so personally. Or had other questions.


----------



## Holland

Saph_ said:


> Not sure why you felt the need to put an awful idea in my head just because you took some offense to what my boyfriend says/thinks.
> 
> I doubt he would leave me for another virgin. He appreciates the fact that he's the only man I've been with. He doesn't feel the need to have another one apparently.
> 
> There was seriously no need for this comment. This was written for the sole purpose to make me feel like crap even though I haven't done anything. I was repeating what my boyfriend said. I was repeating his thoughts trying to get clarification. When I got it, I was fine. Then I eventually had to keep defending myself because some of you took it so personally. Or had other questions.


No it was written to give you a wake up call. You are young with 2 kids and based on what you have said, your partner has issues. I did not say you have issues, I am not attacking you.

Do you think this man is a prize catch?


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## Saph_

NobodySpecial said:


> So OP, All other advice aside, you have two kids. You are not married. Husbands are assumed to be the father by law, their names added to the birth certificates. Is your BF on their birth certificates? In any event, find out the laws about the kids' rights in the event of a break up. Have it in your back pocket for when you need it.




My son has mine and my boyfriend's last name and so will my second child. So he is in the birth certificates, yes. 

I have studied in depth the rights of my children and my rights. I'm assuming it's a heck of a lot easier to " break up " than it is to divorce (maybe I'm ignorant?) 
My children would still be entitled to child support, I would be entitled to spousal support, not that I would go that far. Just saying. And child custody wouldn't be an issue. If something were to happen, I would obviously get it confirmed by the courts what the custody agreement is, for the sake of my children's security and I feel like it's always good to have things confirmed and on paper. Then nobody can act out on resentment or screw around if that makes sense. Not saying that he would do that, I doubt it, but I'm just saying that I would definitely go above and beyond to make sure that my kids are protected, safe and have everything they need.


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## Saph_

Holland said:


> No it was written to give you a wake up call. You are young with 2 kids and based on what you have said, your partner has issues. I did not say you have issues, I am not attacking you.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think this man is a prize catch?




Okay, now I guess I'm taking things personally because I'm the one reading the responses.

I mean, we have our issues but I don't want to sound ungrateful or be *****y either. I think I got pretty lucky. It's not like he's a psycho or hitting up strip clubs everyday or blows our money. He doesn't do drugs, drink or smoke. 

I agree he has issues and not just in the respect some of you think, I've just been afraid to be open about them on here. I'm I'd get more criticism on why I've stayed rather than compassionate help. And because I'm not " married " I feel like some people would just be quick to tell me to just leave. I do know that people would think about the kids though and I know some people here believe trying to fix a relationship/marriage at all costs before leaving. I'm just sensitive and kind of avoid the issues for now because we've been doing well so far. 

You can tell one of the issues we have is a lack of sex and that briefly touched on in this thread.


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## knobcreek

My wife was a virgin when we started dating and later married, she took it very seriously and then she hit an age (21) where she just went nuts and was f*&#ing two of her co-workers, out every night, then separated and still partying and I assume sleeping around, I wasn't in her business at that point.

Point is someone who is a virgin when married can still cheat, and honestly it may push them to cheat because they just want to know what another c*ck or vagina feels like.


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## NobodySpecial

Saph_ said:


> Okay, now I guess I'm taking things personally because I'm the one reading the responses.
> 
> I mean, we have our issues but I don't want to sound ungrateful or be *****y either. I think I got pretty lucky. It's not like he's a psycho or hitting up strip clubs everyday or blows our money. He doesn't do drugs, drink or smoke.


Just teen porn sites.


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## Saph_

knobcreek said:


> My wife was a virgin when we started dating and later married, she took it very seriously and then she hit an age (21) where she just went nuts and was f*&#ing two of her co-workers, out every night, then separated and still partying and I assume sleeping around, I wasn't in her business at that point.
> 
> Point is someone who is a virgin when married can still cheat, and honestly it may push them to cheat because they just want to know what another c*ck or vagina feels like.




That's what I think too and he's expressed insecurity about that as well actually.


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## Holland

Saph_ said:


> Okay, now I guess I'm taking things personally because I'm the one reading the responses.
> 
> I mean, we have our issues but I don't want to sound ungrateful or be *****y either. I think I got pretty lucky. It's not like he's a psycho or hitting up strip clubs everyday or blows our money. He doesn't do drugs, drink or smoke.
> 
> I agree he has issues and not just in the respect some of you think, I've just been afraid to be open about them on here. I'm I'd get more criticism on why I've stayed rather than compassionate help. And because I'm not " married " I feel like some people would just be quick to tell me to just leave. I do know that people would think about the kids though and I know some people here believe trying to fix a relationship/marriage at all costs before leaving. I'm just sensitive and kind of avoid the issues for now because we've been doing well so far.
> 
> You can tell one of the issues we have is a lack of sex and that briefly touched on in this thread.


Ok well this is an anon. forum with all sort of people so you are going to get all sorts of responses and plenty of misunderstandings.
Honestly not trying to attack or make you feel bad. 

From what you have written here IMHO you have not chosen well but only you know what your real life is like and what your partner is like. But your posts here do not paint the picture of a "prize catch" sort of man. You clearly have major concerns or you would not have come here with these detailed posts seeking help.

Are you strong enough to sort this out? Do the two of you have the ability to have very open and honest conversations? 
Is he immature?
Does he have any semblance of EQ?


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## Saph_

NobodySpecial said:


> Just teen porn sites.




That's false. He looks up " teen nudes " on Google images because if you type in " nudes of women " you get all types of women. Even old women. Women that are very old that he doesn't find attractive. It can kill a boner quick when you're browsing and then suddenly find a picture of someone who looks like your Grandmother. He also has other preferences but again, won't be posting those here. Point is, his searching teen nudes is actually pretty common.


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## Saph_

Holland said:


> Ok well this is an anon. forum with all sort of people so you are going to get all sorts of responses and plenty of misunderstandings.
> 
> Honestly not trying to attack or make you feel bad.
> 
> 
> 
> From what you have written here IMHO you have not chosen well but only you know what your real life is like and what your partner is like. But your posts here do not paint the picture of a "prize catch" sort of man. You clearly have major concerns or you would not have come here with these detailed posts seeking help.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you strong enough to sort this out? Do the two of you have the ability to have very open and honest conversations?
> 
> Is he immature?
> 
> Does he have any semblance of EQ?




He can be very immature.
What is EQ?


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## Holland

Saph_ said:


> He can be very immature.
> What is EQ?


Emotional Intelligence. Google is your friend.

There is immature and then there is immature. My dad, my brother, my partner are all close to or over 50 and have some fantastic moments of immaturity but of the endearing kind.

Then there is the man that is immature but in an awkward teenager way, this is not good immaturity it is emotional and social immaturity. If a man (or woman) does not develop past the teenage immaturity level they are not great adults, they are forever idiots in an adult body.

Which type is he?


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## EleGirl

Saph_ said:


> I don't think he thinks other women are dirty or filthy if they've had sex


The title of this thread : I'm " cleaner than others " in his eyes? 

In one of your posts: “I'm cleaner than other women.”

If he used the word “clean” in relation to women who are not you, then he clearly thinks that other women who have had sex are dirty/filthy. What else could that possible mean.

The words “clean”, “dirty” and “filthy” have been used since the dawn of time to describe and belittle women who have sex outside of marriage. They have been used to describe women who live with men they are not married to.

The issue is not that he prefers a virgin to make himself feel better, to each his/her own. The issue is the use of a derogatory term in relationship to women in general. And that you do not realize the depth harm it does to women when this sort of term is used. 

To use that word in relation to women and sex is an insult, its meant to be an insult. Aren’t you bothered at all by him calling you “clean” and other women “not clean”?


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## NobodySpecial

I do not believe that this can be a real poster.


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## EleGirl

Saph_ said:


> That's false. He looks up " teen nudes " on Google images because if you type in " nudes of women " you get all types of women. Even old women. Women that are very old that he doesn't find attractive. It can kill a boner quick when you're browsing and then suddenly find a picture of someone who looks like your Grandmother. He also has other preferences but again, won't be posting those here. Point is, his searching teen nudes is actually pretty common.


So I looked up "teen nudes" and "nudes of women".

"teen nudes" every girl looked like she is 16 or less.

"nudes of women" Most of the women looked like they were under 30. There was one who looked about 50. Another who looked like she was about 40. That's out of the hundreds that google brought up.

Your bf like young girls... clearly because if he liked women, he would be searching for nudes of full grown women.


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## Saph_

EleGirl said:


> The title of this thread : I'm " cleaner than others " in his eyes?
> 
> 
> 
> In one of your posts: “I'm cleaner than other women.”
> 
> 
> 
> If he used the word “clean” in relation to women who are not you, then he clearly thinks that other women who have had sex are dirty/filthy. What else could that possible mean.
> 
> 
> 
> The words “clean”, “dirty” and “filthy” have been used since the dawn of time to describe and belittle women who have sex outside of marriage. They have been used to describe women who live with men they are not married to.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue is not that he prefers a virgin to make himself feel better, to each his/her own. The issue is the use of a derogatory term in relationship to women in general. And that you do not realize the depth harm it does to women when this sort of term is used.
> 
> 
> 
> To use that word in relation to women and sex is an insult, its meant to be an insult. Aren’t you bothered at all by him calling you “clean” and other women “not clean”?




I am. I don't know what to do about it though, I'm not just going to break up because of it. I've explained to him my beliefs and repeated what the posters here have said (without telling him I'm on the site) and he just says " okay, I just have a different opinion. I don't know why you're making an issue out of it. " so I just let it go because I can't change the way he thinks. 

I also want to mention that I am resentful that it's so great to him that he's the only one I've ever been with because I struggled for a WHILE about the fact that he had slept with 10 women prior to me. Not because I viewed him as dirty or anything either.


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## kristin2349

Saph_ said:


> My son has mine and my boyfriend's last name and so will my second child. So he is in the birth certificates, yes.
> 
> I have studied in depth the rights of my children and my rights. I'm assuming it's a heck of a lot easier to " break up " than it is to divorce (maybe I'm ignorant?)
> My children would still be entitled to child support, *I would be entitled to spousal support*, not that I would go that far. Just saying. And child custody wouldn't be an issue. If something were to happen, I would obviously get it confirmed by the courts what the custody agreement is, for the sake of my children's security and I feel like it's always good to have things confirmed and on paper. Then nobody can act out on resentment or screw around if that makes sense. Not saying that he would do that, I doubt it, but I'm just saying that I would definitely go above and beyond to make sure that my kids are protected, safe and have everything they need.


Huh, how would you be entitled to spousal support when you are not a spouse. Your chances of getting any kind of spousal support these days are pretty slim to begin with, when you take legal marriage out of the picture you'd better find a way to support yourself. He won't be obligated to.


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## EleGirl

If you want him to understand why you object, just tell him that to you he is dirty, unclean, and not worthy of you. And then treat him like he's dirty/unclean for a while. See how that settles with him.


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## NobodySpecial

Saph_ said:


> My son has mine and my boyfriend's last name and so will my second child. So he is in the birth certificates, yes.


There is a place on the birth certificate of a child that is for the NAME OF THE FATHER. Spousal support my left eye. A lot of actual spouses don't get that anymore.


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## knobcreek

The vast majority of the world still views people who have had sex before marriage as unclean, particularly women. In the west we tend to think we're the majority, we're not, a billion Indians, and nearly 2 billion Muslims don't have sex before marriage and heavily shun those who do. Africa too is heavily Muslim or evangelical/catholic and they shun sex before marriage as well. Pretty much the entire world except industrialized post-Christian nations.

So while we always think it's antiquated to wait for marriage, the majority of humans still follow the old school thought of virginity and especially a woman's virginity being mandatory for marriage.


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## NobodySpecial

knobcreek said:


> The vast majority of the world still views people who have had sex before marriage as unclean, particularly women. In the west we tend to think we're the majority, we're not, a billion Indians, and nearly 2 billion Muslims don't have sex before marriage and heavily shun those who do. Africa too is heavily Muslim or evangelical/catholic and they shun sex before marriage as well. Pretty much the entire world except industrialized post-Christian nations.


These women tend to leverage that status into the financial security of marriage.


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## Holland

Saph_ said:


> I am. I don't know what to do about it though, I'm not just going to break up because of it. I've explained to him my beliefs and repeated what the po*sters here have said (without telling him I'm on the site) and he just says " okay, I just have a different opinion. I don't know why you're making an issue out of it. " so I just let it go because I can't change the way he thinks. *
> 
> I also want to mention that I am resentful that it's so great to him that he's the only one I've ever been with because I struggled for a WHILE about the fact that he had slept with 10 women prior to me. Not because I viewed him as dirty or anything either.


And this is why he comes across as very immature and/or socially inept and/or low EQ.


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## EleGirl

*Saph_ is BANNED. 

Seems that she was baiting which is her normal style.*


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## WorkingWife

*Re: I'm &quot; cleaner than others &quot; in his eyes?*



Saph_ said:


> It's clear a few of you aren't even reading what I'm posting.


I've got the same impression from this thread. They saw the word "clean" and flipped.

You are young. You will learn. You can get away with pretty much any transgression and no one will bat an eye unless you use a word or phrase that they don't like. Once the on-line mob decides you have been politically incorrect, there is no redemption for you. Especially if anyone infers judgment in your words.


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## red oak

EleGirl said:


> Well no, a woman does not have to be a virgin upon marriage in order for a man to know that she bares is her husband’s child. Some societies, ancient ones and third world ones, have a rule/law that a woman must wait 3 months after the end of a marriage before seeing and/or marrying another man. See, after a 3-month period of no sex with her ex, it becomes clear that she is not pregnant from her ex.


I'm impressed.

The idea of a supposed virgin requirement for a bride in scripture, or remaining "pure" is taken out of context. Breath of fresh air.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Saph_ said:


> So my question is, out of curiosity, has it ever been a turn off for any of you men to know that your wife has had sexual experiences before you?
> Is it common for men to find it hot that they took someone's virginity and they are the only one said virgin has been sleeping with? Is it the purity?
> Just curious about what the reasoning is or if this mind set/fantasy? Whatever it is is common or not.


Yes. High count women are a huge turnoff to me. The lower the count the better. Extra points for virginity. I guess its nice to know you aren't getting sloppy seconds.


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## EleGirl

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yes. High count women are a huge turnoff to me. The lower the count the better. Extra points for virginity. I guess its nice to know you aren't getting sloppy seconds.


How many women have you had sex with? If more than your current partner, then you are sloppy seconds.


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## MEM2020

This particular male mindset sometimes morphs into a very ugly thing. Typically it expresses in irrational jealousy, and a lot of pressure related to how you dress and who you socialize with.





Saph_ said:


> So, my boyfriend and I were having a conversation about my sister. She recently cheated on her husband and left him and the kids for the other man.
> My boyfriend was talking about how he's not a cheater, could never cheat, his moral integrity isn't worth losing and also the fact that you never know what you could catch from someone.
> 
> Which led to a conversation about me. I was a virgin when I met my boyfriend. He was my first and only. He laughed and said that it's hot to think about the fact that he's the only guy who knows what I'm like and that I'm cleaner than other women. Cleaner in the sense that my only sexual experiences are with him and the fact that he took my virginity and he's the only one who has it is hot to him.
> 
> So my question is, out of curiosity, has it ever been a turn off for any of you men to know that your wife has had sexual experiences before you?
> Is it common for men to find it hot that they took someone's virginity and they are the only one said virgin has been sleeping with? Is it the purity?
> Just curious about what the reasoning is or if this mind set/fantasy? Whatever it is is common or not.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

EleGirl said:


> How many women have you had sex with? If more than your current partner, then you are sloppy seconds.


I've been with a few, not a lot. But its just important for me (when I was younger I really didn't care about counts, now I do). But never have I been with a woman that care how many women I've previously been with.

I see it no different than peoples preference for tall, short, skinny, muscular/toned, blonde, brunette. I just like my women with low mileage...


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## Andy1001

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I've been with a few, not a lot. But its just important for me (when I was younger I really didn't care about counts, now I do). But never have I been with a woman that care how many women I've previously been with.
> 
> I see it no different than peoples preference for tall, short, skinny, muscular/toned, blonde, brunette. I just like my women with low mileage...


What happens if you meet and fall for a beautiful woman who only had one previous partner but then you find out they ****ed like rabbits twice or three times a day,every day.
Would her “mileage” be low or high?


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## SunCMars

EleGirl said:


> How many women have you had sex with? If more than your current partner, then you are sloppy seconds.


The thing about sloppy seconds, they only last seconds.

The next batter-up Rube, often needs fresh Lube.

The heat of the reaction bolls off all former toils.




The Typist I-


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## UpsideDownWorld11

Andy1001 said:


> What happens if you meet and fall for a beautiful woman who only had one previous partner but then you find out they ****ed like rabbits twice or three times a day,every day.
> Would her “mileage” be low or high?


I would still consider that low.


----------



## MJJEAN

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I would still consider that low.


You hurt my brain.

So, a woman can have sex 4,000 times with 1 man and she's "low mileage", but if she has sex 100 times total between 5 men she's somehow "high mileage"? WTF?!?


----------



## Red Sonja

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Yes. High count women are a huge turnoff to me. The lower the count the better. Extra points for virginity. I guess its nice to know you aren't getting sloppy seconds.


So women are just another commodity to you.  Not surprising given your post history on TAM.


----------



## Mr. Nail

well to carry on the car analogy . . . . Nope I'm not going there. I was just pretty amazed that this 2.5 year dead thread has been reanimated and supported by a mod. This is simply not a topic Demi sexuals are terribly interested in. 

I must say that a three month term of abstinence ought to restore virginity. Actually I'm not too fussy about the length of the term, but 3 months is a fair minimum. In general if the person is over their last relationship, has finished grieving, is not caught up in new mini relationships, then Alex Comfort and I agree that that person is virginal enough.


----------



## Rob_1

Why women have to be a commodity just because a man likes his partner with a so called "low mileage"? It is a preference, just like a woman wants her man to be tall and a good provider? 

A lot of today's younger generations women just want to see their point of view as the right one; any traditional male point of view is immediately attacked as sexist, patriarchal, and a lot of other femenist bull****. 

I for one did not go looking for a virgin, because I particularly don't care too much about a partner's past lovers(to a degree), but I found one. I can say that me being her one and only ever makes me proud as a man to have been her one and only...so what! Am I some sort of patriarchal cave man because of it?


----------



## EleGirl

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I've been with a few, not a lot. But its just important for me (when I was younger I really didn't care about counts, now I do). But never have I been with a woman that care how many women I've previously been with.


This is of course because men have historically been held to a much lower standard than women. But I think it's time to judge men sexually by the same ruler that is used to judge women. 



UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I see it no different than peoples preference for tall, short, skinny, muscular/toned, blonde, brunette. I just like my women with low mileage...


What is funny is that a woman who is married for a few years probably has much more "mileage" than a woman who is single. On average, married women have a lot more sex then single woman.


----------



## EleGirl

SunCMars said:


> The thing about *sloppy seconds*, they only last seconds.
> 
> The next batter-up Rube, often needs fresh Lube.
> 
> The heat of the reaction bolls off all former toils.
> 
> The Typist I-


Calling women "sloppy seconds" is one of the basest and most disgusting forms of **** shaming that there is. I find no humor is it.


----------



## EleGirl

Rob_1 said:


> Why women have to be a commodity just because a man likes his partner with a so called "low mileage"? It is a preference, just like a woman wants her man to be tall and a good provider?
> 
> A lot of today's younger generations women just want to see their point of view as the right one; any traditional male point of view is immediately attacked as sexist, patriarchal, and a lot of other femenist bull****.
> 
> I for one did not go looking for a virgin, because I particularly don't care too much about a partner's past lovers(to a degree), but I found one. I can say that me being her one and only ever makes me proud as a man to have been her one and only...so what! Am I some sort of patriarchal cave man because of it?


Well, you are proud of something that you did nothing to accomplish really. That's a bid odd.

We can all have our own preferences for who we would want to form a relationship with. That's not the issue.

For example, I would be very unlikely to get into a relationship with a man who has had a *very* high number of partners because at some point, I believe it's a character flaw. I'm not sure that number is, but I feel that the problem would be pretty obvious.

The issue is the use of terms like "dirty", "not clean", "sloppy seconds", and other choice words to refer to women. Surely people can talk about their preferences without putting down and **** shaming women.


----------

