# The butterfly effect



## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

So, this is an extremely common story I believe. I met my wife in college and sex started few months in the relationship. Everything is great, our drives are matched perhaps hers is even stronger.

Then came parenting, jobs, money, busy schedules, etc... Her priorities changed, she pushed sex down. Her sex drive doesn't respond well to stress. Now she is LD and I'm HD. The butterflies are gone from the beginning and married life with all the problems and challenges came. 

Perhaps she didn't change at all. Perhaps she was HD because she lived unencumbered trough life and dating and that is no more.

I was just thinking about our earlier days. Was there anything that would suggest such outcome?? I mean, she was little reserved at the beginning but she was shy and inexperienced at the time. I can't think of any to be honest. We were compatible.

So, what's my point? My point is that there is no defense against this. There was nothing to suggest that we would go from compatible to severe incompatibility.

I'm I right to feel that this is unfair? Is it justified?

What do you think?


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

Not to make light of your situation, but what sounds like has happened is, life! People change, priorities change and sex sometimes
takes a back seat to jobs, kids etc. Talk with her tell her how you feel, perhaps seek MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Unfortunately Trey is right. People change and priorities change. While your 1st need may be sexual satisfaction hers is security or friends and family or something other than your 1st need.

While this does happen a lot as you can see on the forum I also have to believe that if people are understanding and willing to work together there can be solutions. Her understanding your need and willing to give to that need and make it a priority in your relationship would certainly help. You understanding what is in the way of her helping you with that need and meeting her needs will also go a long way.

1st stop is sitting down and having an adult discussion about expectations/needs. The book his needs/her needs is a good start. A lot of people talk about the book the 5 love languages and say that helps. So sit and figure a way to talk about this before frustration turns to resentment and things get to a point of no return.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think sometimes there are simply differences in priority that spring up due to the realities of life. It's easy to be HD when there are no other responsibilities that need attending to. It's also easy to be HD when there are other responsibilities, but there's someone else in your life who handles most of them for you. But then, suddenly, you're a grown-up with a job and a mortgage and kids. When you find yourself taking care of those responsibilities, sometimes it's hard to find a balance that leaves enough emotional and physical energy to devote to maintaining a romantic relationship with your spouse. 

And that's what you and your wife both need. A romantic relationship with your partner. Do you treat one another like you did when dating, or have you both settled into "being married"? Do you date, spend lots of time doing fun things together as a couple? She's not meeting your top need right now. Are you meeting her's? Do you both know what each other's top needs are? 

_His Needs, Her Needs_ by Willard Harley is a great place to start. Read it together - in some of that alone time you should be getting - and talk through the questions at the end of each chapter. Do the questionnaire so you can identify what each of your greatest needs are, and make plans on how you each are going to meet those needs for your partner.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I don't think there is much prevention in this situation. From what I have seen here (admittedly most of the posters on this board find themselves in your same situation so it's not a fair sampling of the population at large) many people had every reason to believe the great sex would continue through the relationship. 

I think there are likely areas that deteriorate in every marriage. I'm in the age range where my peers and I are approaching the 20 year mark of marriage and divorce is definitely on the rise in that group. (I mean, in my 30's I hardly had any peers or family members divorcing but now that I'm in my 40's this is becoming common.) 

If it's not sex it's likely other things. The thing that sucks for this group here on this board is that sex is placed at a high priority and, because it is important, it is a constant issue to not be getting what we need by the one person that we vowed to get it from. 

In any case - you can make the best, informed decision possible when choosing a mate but, like everything else in life, there are no guarantees.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

You need to learn a little more about women in general. Early on in a relationship there are few worried and little responsibility. So she can think about and feed her sex drive more easily. After marriage, kids and job that sex drive is still there but it is not nearly as high on the lriority list for her as is for you. You see a man that wants sex will still want sex even if the dog ran away and the house is on fire, just the way we are. A womans sex drive can be derailed by something as little as cloths that beed put away and trash that needs emptied. You have to so things to raise it up on he list. Anything from helping with her load to constantly letting her know she is sexy and you desire her (you don't do this only when you want sex dummy). When I recently put my marriage back together I found out my LD wife is not nearly as LD as I thought. She is totally on board with having sex every other day as long as I'm willing to put in the work to help her have time to desire sex. 

Some of those books mentioned are a good place for you to start to know that woman you married. Long frank conversations are another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> You need to learn a little more about women in general. Early on in a relationship there are few worried and little responsibility. So she can think about and feed her sex drive more easily. After marriage, kids and job that sex drive is still there but it is not nearly as high on the lriority list for her as is for you. You see a man that wants sex will still want sex even if the dog ran away and the house is on fire, just the way we are. A womans sex drive can be derailed by something as little as cloths that beed put away and trash that needs emptied. You have to so things to raise it up on he list. Anything from helping with her load to constantly letting her know she is sexy and you desire her (you don't do this only when you want sex dummy). When I recently put my marriage back together I found out my LD wife is not nearly as LD as I thought. She is totally on board with having sex every other day as long as I'm willing to put in the work to help her have time to desire sex.
> 
> Some of those books mentioned are a good place for you to start to know that woman you married. Long frank conversations are another.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So what happens when you do those things and she still does not respond?

OR some of those things slip for the same reason sex slips. You get busy at work and can not cook every night, or maybe the house is not PERFECT all the time but certainly is very clean and you help with that, etc.

It just seems that sex goes down the the ladder of importance much quicker for woman or LD people than it does for HD. 

How do you compare taking out the trash to sexual gratification?
That frustrates me. 

I guess the secret is to find someone that is HD and stays that way. At my age, 46, it would seem they would know that by now.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I have to wonder if women are naturally more interested in sex the first year or two because of some innate behavior but then some also are just HD. 

I suppose you could not marry a person for at least four years to see if the sex will keep going and then if it does not than move on. 

Fair and justified do not count because your spouse is not likely to want to have sex with you because it is fair or you are justified for wanting it. They are people and not machines.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Cyclist said:


> So what happens when you do those things and she still does not respond?
> 
> OR some of those things slip for the same reason sex slips. You get busy at work and can not cook every night, or maybe the house is not PERFECT all the time but certainly is very clean and you help with that, etc.
> 
> ...


Not everyone is the same and what works for me may not work for you. But what I said it pretty much generic for most women. My counseler compared it to men minds are more like a dirt path. We generally work on one or two things at a time. If we are watching TV, we are probably not worrying about the lawn that needs mowing. But a woman's mind is more like a nine lane super highway where there are multiple things going on and it is never truely quite. Over the years for the pourposes of sex I have learned to bring my wife into my dirt road so she can enjoy sex more without the other distractions that are in her head. 

My wife knows that helping her with running the house is a priority of mine because I have demonstrated it over time. If it slips, and it does from time to time, I don't get penalized. She will mention it if it goes on for too long though. 

A woman's. mind does not work like ours. I'm sure one will check in and back me up on that. 

If your plan is to dump your current wife and find one that is HD. What happens in 10 years if her sex drive does not match yours?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Speaking as a woman - if I DID find myself single I would fish from the pond of men who have been in sexless marriages and are now trying to find a better match. 

I think that is likely a good indicator that sex is a priority.

Of course the downside of my "plan" is that I would likely be blinded by sex and would make concessions on other important character traits. 

If I do end up single I will need someone to remind me to not do this!


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Not everyone is the same and what works for me may not work for you. But what I said it pretty much generic for most women. My counseler compared it to men minds are more like a dirt path. We generally work on one or two things at a time. If we are watching TV, we are probably not worrying about the lawn that needs mowing. But a woman's mind is more like a nine lane super highway where there are multiple things going on and it is never truely quite. Over the years for the pourposes of sex I have learned to bring my wife into my dirt road so she can enjoy sex more without the other distractions that are in her head.
> 
> My wife knows that helping her with running the house is a priority of mine because I have demonstrated it over time. If it slips, and it does from time to time, I don't get penalized. She will mention it if it goes on for too long though.
> 
> ...



I agree with what you say. Its when you do demonstrate it over time and she does not keep up her end and the reasons for that. No matter what you do its not enough or some of the things are overboard and you draw the line.

In drawing that line you are trying to get her on your dirt road. Yes the dishwasher may not be empty but we can get to that and will get to that tomorrow. Making love is more important.

Its a priority thing.


And your right what happens when she changes? Hopefully she is open enough to hear you when you bring up that she has changed and sees the need to make an adjustment


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> In any case - you can make the best, informed decision possible when choosing a mate but, like everything else in life, there are no guarantees.


Yeah, it sucks all around. We have talked and talked, didn't rushed into anything, we agreed on all important points and we committed to each other and it wasn't enough.

I'm not angry or disappointed with her. She is who she is. She is a great mom and a great wife except when it comes to sex and I love her.

She wants to be there for me. She is willing to have sex with me if I ask and circumstances allow it to happen. She wants to make it work but what she offers is just not enough. That's the saddest part. 

I need a sexual partner who is excited to be there with me, who wants to explore and develop our sexual life together, who looks forward to it. It's just not in her anymore. She was like that, but she isn't anymore.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Of course the downside of my "plan" is that I would likely be blinded by sex and would make concessions on other important character traits.
> 
> If I do end up single I will need someone to remind me to not do this!


Maybe such a mistake would be beneficial to you. To briefly overcompensate for something that you lacked for so long and then start your search for all around character with a 'clearer' head.


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## Cyclist (Aug 22, 2012)

I need a sexual partner who is excited to be there with me, who wants to explore and develop our sexual life together, who looks forward to it. It's just not in her anymore. She was like that, but she isn't anymore.[/QUOTE]

That's the struggle. Trying to decipher if you are being to selfish because she is great in so many other ways and trying to decide if this is as important as you are making it and how it will affect your relationship in the future.

Internal battle. I wish our significant others understood how hard it is and HOW MUCH BETTER the relationship could be if they did understand.


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Cyclist said:


> I wish our significant others understood how hard it is and HOW MUCH BETTER the relationship could be if they did understand.


My wife understands this but it changes nothing really. She can't fake enthusiasm and excitement when there is none. We are both aware that this is a serious issue but we're both out of ideas.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Have you tried counsoling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

Give her this to read. Woke my wife up. Also a lot of other good stuff on this web site. 

For Women Only: Knowing What Matters Most to Your Husband
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> So,
> 
> I'm I right to feel that this is unfair? Is it justified?
> 
> What do you think?


I do believe priorities change. But you can keep it a priority. 

Never stop dating each other. Try to maintain those butterflies as much as possible.


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

It's my opinion that her passions have been muffled by life like my wife's were. It's going to take patience on your part and more importantly a desire on her part to get them back. And for my wife to have that desire she needed to know that the same things that initially took her desire were not going to take them again. Otherwise, what's the use in trying. 

But even if get her back. Your probably never going to have that crazy, adventurous sex partner you are looking for. I'm about your age and wanted the same thing. Had to settle for what she had to offer. At least it's every other day now, and not every other month, like it used to be.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyDee (Oct 1, 2013)

> Your probably never going to have that crazy, adventurous sex partner you are looking for.


I wouldn't say that, from experience I know and I think I am just as adventurous or more than I was as a younger woman.

I do understand too the pressures of life/family/children and what it can do a woman's libido and the imbalance of hormones which plays a big part too, it all plays a role.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

Cyclist said:


> So what happens when you do those things and she still does not respond?
> 
> OR some of those things slip for the same reason sex slips. You get busy at work and can not cook every night, or maybe the house is not PERFECT all the time but certainly is very clean and you help with that, etc.
> 
> ...


I feel ya, you are are never going to find an answer to put your mind at ease.

I went through this as well and no excuse i heard ever sounded legit.

Not high on the list of priorities?

Seems like people have plenty of time to text and fb all day.

What about some people going on a "date night", everything goes perfect, and then you two get home and he/she goes right to bed? WTH?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> Speaking as a woman - if I DID find myself single I would fish from the pond of men who have been in sexless marriages and are now trying to find a better match.
> 
> I think that is likely a good indicator that sex is a priority.
> 
> ...


You can count on us, Scarlett! We won't let you make any mistakes if you get to that point.

Hopefully, you won't. Hopefully, you will get into ST and you and your H will live happily ever after.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> My wife understands this but it changes nothing really. She can't fake enthusiasm and excitement when there is none. We are both aware that this is a serious issue but we're both out of ideas.


Then it's crucial that you seek MC right away. The fact that she sees it's a serious problem is actually a good sign. She isn't denying it. As a couple you can read up on this issue. There are tons of books in any bookstore that help with sexual struggles. Maybe if you guys could read a chapter a night, or a week, putting into practice what you read, it would also increase the time you spend with each other. It may be easier to go out of the house to a coffee shop, maybe on every Friday or something, to get away from the kids. 

Never give up hope and Good Luck


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## Rayloveshiswife (Sep 25, 2013)

LadyDee said:


> I wouldn't say that, from experience I know and I think I am just as adventurous or more than I was as a younger woman.
> 
> I do understand too the pressures of life/family/children and what it can do a woman's libido and the imbalance of hormones which plays a big part too, it all plays a role.


Have to say that I envy your husband then. I can only speak from my experiences. My wife has definitely pulled back with age in what she is willing to do and try. It seems the woman I want her to be sex wise, she was with previous partners 20+years ago. But in general, people mellow with age and are less adventuresome. 

If you and your wife are both on the same page that there is a problem. Get in counseling now. Both of you seeing there is a problem and wanting to fix it is half the battle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

As an LD, I do understand the importance of sex. Really I do. Does that translate into desire? Nope. Desire comes from a different place than understanding. You can understand hunger while not feeling hungry yourself. 

Sex is very complicated because it has to come from a place of desire and wanting. Not understanding. Duty sex comes from a place of understanding, "I understand that you need intimacy, let me do this for you." Desirous sex comes from, "I need you so badly right now I can't help myself!"

See the difference. What you will feel satisfied with is the question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

techmom said:


> As an LD, I do understand the importance of sex. Really I do. Does that translate into desire? Nope. Desire comes from a different place than understanding. You can understand hunger while not feeling hungry yourself.
> 
> Sex is very complicated because it has to come from a place of desire and wanting. Not understanding. Duty sex comes from a place of understanding, "I understand that you need intimacy, let me do this for you." Desirous sex comes from, "I need you so badly right now I can't help myself!"
> 
> ...


For a good deal of married LD people, it's life that gets in the way of sex. My wife was never really HD, but before we got married, we had sex twice a day. After marriage, the stress of commuting, work, various health issues, and family seemed to have its effect on her and her sex drive took a back seat, actually, it's in the trunk, under the spare tire. I have those same issues, yet I'm still HD.

Fortunately for me, she knows I'm HD and will give me duty BJ's and HJ's to satisfy my sexual appetite, but it's a smidge disconcerting that she wants nothing in return; it's almost like she's doing it strictly so I won't get it elsewhere. She thinks there are a couple of women interested in me, so to keep that out of my mind, she does the bare minimum sexually. I want to be sexually desired more than anything else; there's no greater feeling that your s/o wanting you, but it seems the rigors of life are sucking the energy out of her, which seemed to hit the libido tank first.


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## LadyDee (Oct 1, 2013)

coupdegrace said:


> For a good deal of married LD people, it's life that gets in the way of sex. My wife was never really HD, but before we got married, we had sex twice a day. After marriage, the stress of commuting, work, various health issues, and family seemed to have its effect on her and her sex drive took a back seat, actually, it's in the trunk, under the spare tire. I have those same issues, yet I'm still HD.
> 
> Fortunately for me, she knows I'm HD and will give me duty BJ's and HJ's to satisfy my sexual appetite, but it's a smidge disconcerting that she wants nothing in return; it's almost like she's doing it strictly so I won't get it elsewhere. She thinks there are a couple of women interested in me, so to keep that out of my mind, she does the bare minimum sexually. *I want to be sexually desired more than anything else; there's no greater feeling that your s/o wanting you, but it seems the rigors of life are sucking the energy out of her, which seemed to hit the libido tank first.*



May I ask, just what is it you want her to do, to make you feel sexually desired?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think it is pretty obvious when a spouse sexually desires you. Equally as obvious when they don't.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

TheStranger said:


> I'm I right to feel that this is unfair? Is it justified?
> 
> What do you think?


Is it fair that I went bald in my 20's? Is it fair that my wife had a congenital hip deformity that required a joint replacement before her 40th birthday? Is it fair that I don't like broccoli? 

If our level of sexual interest were a purely mental choice, then perhaps a reasonable question about fairness could be raised. I don't think it's that simple unless a spouse specifically feigned sexual interest as a means of entrapment. 

Assuming no malicious intent on your partner's part, fairness is a question that can only be raised in the context of "what are we going to do about it", not "why are things as they are".


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Rayloveshiswife said:


> *It's my opinion that her passions have been muffled by life like my wife's were. *It's going to take patience on your part and more importantly a desire on her part to get them back. And for my wife to have that desire she needed to know that the same things that initially took her desire were not going to take them again. Otherwise, what's the use in trying.
> 
> But even if get her back. Your probably never going to have that crazy, adventurous sex partner you are looking for. I'm about your age and wanted the same thing. Had to settle for what she had to offer. At least it's every other day now, and not every other month, like it used to be.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And I can very easily see how that happens! I'm a new Mom and I can say without a doubt that if it were not for TAM and reading about how this happens I could be right there now. My H would be taking a back of the room back seat to baby. Everything could be driven by baby. Thankfully I was forewarn and although it take strong effort on my part I can keep both of them happy. It actually very rewarding in the end.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Cletus said:


> If our level of sexual interest were a purely mental choice


Its not "purely" but there is a choice to do something or not and there is the key. When boiled down where do your priorities lie..? Does your marriage come first or not? Did you mean those words you said or not? Are you being lazy and coasting in your marriage because you can? And is that "fair".


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> Its not "purely" but there is a choice to do something or not and there is the key. When boiled down where do your priorities lie..? Does your marriage come first or not? Did you mean those words you said or not? Are you being lazy and coasting in your marriage because you can? And is that "fair".


But then when the LD partner does something to try to please their partner even though they aren't feeling desire, it's considered not enough because it's not done out of desire. No win.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> If it's done out of desire to truly please their partner in a selfless manner shouldn't that be enough? I know, that is a really big if.


Yes, I think that should be recognized as their partner having the desire to please them and make them feel good, even if they don't have the desire for sex itself or the passionate desire that their partners want them to feel. 

I think it's worth a lot, but I've seen more than once that people don't want "duty" sex (even if it's not dead fish sex). They want to feel desired, and they don't feel desired if the sex is done out of any other reason than passionate desire.


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## Mistyfied (Sep 27, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> So, this is an extremely common story I believe. I met my wife in college and sex started few months in the relationship. Everything is great, our drives are matched perhaps hers is even stronger.
> 
> Then came parenting, jobs, money, busy schedules, etc... Her priorities changed, she pushed sex down. Her sex drive doesn't respond well to stress. Now she is LD and I'm HD. The butterflies are gone from the beginning and married life with all the problems and challenges came.
> 
> ...


Your story sounds a lot like mine (and probably a lot of people's). But I can tell you exactly what changed in my marriage. Like you, there was nothing to suggest that we were going to end up with compatibility issues.

When we were dating, we used to have long and deep conversations about all sorts of topics. These kind of conversations create a connection for me that makes me want to have sex. It wasn't too long after marriage that these conversations stopped and now, they never happen in spite of my asking and pointing out that this is what I need. If my husband was to sit down with me tonight and have a good conversation with me, I'd want sex with him and be very responsive. Right now, he thinks I don't desire him - I've told him what I need to feel that desire and to respond better to him - and still he doesn't talk so I don't feel the desire and, if we do have sex, I don't respond so well. It's a vicious circle. Delivering the sex first doesn't prompt him to meet my need either. I have given up that he is going to meet my need so my desire is at the lowest ebb ever.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

LadyDee said:


> May I ask, just what is it you want her to do, to make you feel sexually desired?


For me, I like it when she acts like she wants to screw my brains out; like she can't get enough of me. Then, there's the sexy, inviting look, the touching, the panting, and the general atmosphere. It's more than obvious when someone is into you. This, however, happened before we got married. 

Don't get me wrong- an apathetic BJ or HJ is good for a release (because some people here don't even get that), but if feels great to know that you're desired on a physical and an emotional level, and that she wants to be there. Instead, she sometimes makes it clear that she just wants to go to sleep, fool around on her ipad or play Candy Crush Saga. 

There's nothing you want to hear more than, "Hurry up and cum." [/sarcasm]


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

We are a couple who wasn't so adventurous in our dating years.. even waiting till we married to go all the way...then got pregnant very quickly.....I'd say our greatest sex life was after we had all the kids... does anything make sense... I don't think one can gauge from dating... what the future will hold....

Because of so many things... the above poster..Mistyfied...the husband stopped talking/sharing... just imagining how that might make* me* feel... I wouldn't like it either... it would suck my desire to please a husband... 

Or Resentment, schedules too full / bushed at the end of the night/ stress of finances, kids, work... so much can get in the way... 

I did a thread on how me & mine handle this... as for a time ... my sex drive was WAY higher than his (for a season) ...and being a woman, I just didn't like this at all... I was wishing he was 20 yrs younger than me so he could keep up! 

But ya know... he did all he could... because he cared... he wanted my happiness... How much this means to us... can it even be expressed...it is IN THIS that makes us want to give back to our spouses... feed those love languages.... it's what keeps the passion alive in us... I can't say either one of us are itching for sex these days (the horniness has waned)...yet we still so enjoy "working that up" in each other... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...allowing-our-partner-turn-us-love-making.html

And sometimes we just get in a marital RUT...the same old same old...and NEED INSPIRED....something to STIR us , stir our hormones back to each other... Plan a romantic vacation.... use Music...Surprise her, grab her for a dance, an old song you & her shared in your dating years...visit a make out area....Try Romancing her...

Here is a thread started on reviving the Dopamine in Marriage....What did it for me... making a Movie maker Video of our lives together/ starting with dating...all those pictures across the screen....added a mushy love song... the emotions took me by storm....I went nuts for my husband wanting to recapture what I felt we were missing during the child bearing yrs.....a small gesture could lead to something that takes hold & sets us on a new path....

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...ping-dopamine-flowing-long-term-marriage.html


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

Cletus said:


> If our level of sexual interest were a purely mental choice, then perhaps a reasonable question about fairness could be raised. I don't think it's that simple unless a spouse specifically feigned sexual interest as a means of entrapment.
> 
> Assuming no malicious intent on your partner's part, fairness is a question that can only be raised in the context of "what are we going to do about it", not "why are things as they are".


The question of fairness was directed to life in general. I do feel little angry knowing that I did everything I could to ensure that we're both making the right choice to be together and it's falling apart with no one to blame but life and circumstances... 

It's wain to wrestle with the wind, I know...


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## TheStranger (Jan 14, 2013)

techmom said:


> As an LD, I do understand the importance of sex. Really I do. Does that translate into desire? Nope. Desire comes from a different place than understanding. You can understand hunger while not feeling hungry yourself.


So true.

Something terrible happened two months ago to us and we stopped having sex to grieve. 

She expressed interest in restarting our sex life just last week but I've asked for more time but truth be told, I just don't want to restart our sex life and go back.

Her loss of drive was not gradual, it was sudden and unexpected. It happened during her first trimester and then we were completely sexless for a year. By the time she expressed interest once again there was a new emotion in the game - insecurity. Pretty powerful stuff. Feeling insecure and unwanted I'm basically shutting down sexually in every way.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> My wife's drive diminished after menopause. She had some difficulty orgasming and doesn't even try to (no oral for her first) every time. I didn't take that well, it bothered me. I finally got over it and recognized her deep desire to please me is in fact a beautiful thing (and mighty sexy too). It took a lot of trust to get there. I know I'm lucky, she really cares about me, reading TAM I now know that's not a given.


Was there anything specific that helped you in getting over it and seeing it differently?


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## Mistyfied (Sep 27, 2013)

TheStranger said:


> Feeling insecure and unwanted I'm basically shutting down sexually in every way.


Ditto. I think we do eventually give up or feel the effort required isn't worth it.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

I think the affects of "life" on a woman's libido commonly alters what she needs in order to feel sexual desire for her spouse. This seems to be less true for men, who have a steady supply of testosterone to keep their desire at the ready. 

For women who go from HD to LD after the stress of parenthood, career, etc. sets in, I think it's worth looking into new ways to trigger her desire. 


In my 20's I didn't need my husband to do much of anything--my desire was high, my stress was low, and we had sex all the time. I our 30's we had very little sex because we hadn't figured out that my needs had changed in that area. Now in our 40's, we have figured it out and fortunately, my husband is happy to do the "work" required to maintain my HD even though it's different than what I needed after we first met. I'm not used to having to do "work" to maintain my high drive, but I've come to enjoy it. In many ways, I feel like I'm in a whole new relationship because we've shaken up the dynamic in our marriage. 

I think it can be hard for some men to accept that what triggers sexual desire in a woman can change over the course of a relationship. It's frustrating for women, too, especially when we can't figure out what the heck happened to our libido. Unfortunately, resentment often gets thrown into the mix early on, and then readjusting to changing desire needs becomes further complicated.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

norajane said:


> But then when the LD partner does something to try to please their partner even though they aren't feeling desire, it's considered not enough because it's not done out of desire. No win.


My point being that we have a lot more control over these things then we often like to acknowledge. Acknowledging = taking responsibility and why do that when you can find a thousand excuses for coasting in your marriage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Mistyfied said:


> Ditto. I think we do eventually give up or feel the effort required isn't worth it.



The second actually. Simple math. Expected mean value of sex. After a certain point in quality/quantity it simply is not worth the effort. It's like walking for a mile to lose 5 calories. Nobody would do it.

Make it worth the while quality and quantity and we talk.


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## usmarriedguy (Dec 9, 2013)

I do not know if most people would really care if it was done out of a since of duty and is probably more likely the attitude of the person. 

A husband touching his wife but looks bored and like he would rather go watch TV is far different than a husband that is deriving joy from giving his wife joy. I find it very pleasant to touch my wife, to see her body react as she goes through the stages to the final moment. It is an empathetic response and it shows through to the SO.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I think it can be hard for some men to accept that what triggers sexual desire in a woman can change over the course of a relationship. It's frustrating for women, too, especially when we can't figure out what the heck happened to our libido. Unfortunately, resentment often gets thrown into the mix early on, and then readjusting to changing desire needs becomes further complicated.


I can say that I did not and still don't have a real problem understanding that the sexual triggers for a woman can change. What was difficult for me was her not being able to tell me how things changed either. I trust my wife and believe that she would have told me right away had she known. But we men have insecurities as well, and it can be difficult not to go to those thoughts when we don't know what is going on. That is when the resentment starts to grow.


Fortunately, despite our mistakes and not handling it as maturely as we could have, I don't think there was too much resentment. But I have come to realize I certainly could have done a lot better.


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> In my 20's I didn't need my husband to do much of anything--my desire was high, my stress was low, and we had sex all the time. I our 30's we had very little sex because we hadn't figured out that my needs had changed in that area. Now in our 40's, we have figured it out and fortunately, my husband is happy to do the "work" required to maintain my HD even though it's different than what I needed after we first met. I'm not used to having to do "work" to maintain my high drive, but I've come to enjoy it. In many ways, I feel like I'm in a whole new relationship because we've shaken up the dynamic in our marriage.
> 
> I think it can be hard for some men to accept that what triggers sexual desire in a woman can change over the course of a relationship. It's frustrating for women, too, especially when we can't figure out what the heck happened to our libido. Unfortunately, resentment often gets thrown into the mix early on, and then readjusting to changing desire needs becomes further complicated.


This is an excellent post. If you don't mind me asking, what exactly did you (and your husband) do to figure out that your needs had changed? What clicked internally? Additionally, what was the solution? What "work" was required on his part? Further attentiveness? My relationship hasn't yet reached this point, but it seems to be slowly headed there, and she wants children, so I want to be a step ahead of this.

I've read a multitude of posts on this board that their spouse went from HD to LD after marriage and/or children, but nobody seems to know the how's or why's and what can be done to remedy the issue.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

coupdegrace said:


> This is an excellent post. If you don't mind me asking, what exactly did you (and your husband) do to figure out that your needs had changed? What clicked internally? Additionally, what was the solution? What "work" was required on his part? Further attentiveness? My relationship hasn't yet reached this point, but it seems to be slowly headed there, and she wants children, so I want to be a step ahead of this.
> 
> I've read a multitude of posts on this board that their spouse went from HD to LD after marriage and/or children, but nobody seems to know the how's or why's and what can be done to remedy the issue.


Figuring out my drive has been a process, but it's been really rewarding and the more work we do, the more the "benefits" grow. It started with the reestablishment of our lost intimacy after those ten years of resentment and disconnect and mutual emotional distrust. Truthfully, it was TAM that started us along the path. I came to understand, by reading this forum, what lack of sex was doing to my husband and began addressing the issues that were suppressing my libido. Our sex life improved dramatically, and after that we started exploring how the sexual fits into and works with our overall relationship dynamic. 

Basically, the MMSLP has been dead on for guiding him. We are so different in our personalities and our outlooks, but we have explosive sexual chemistry. We're learning to use that chemistry as an outlet for issues that we are unable to resolve satisfactorily outside the bedroom. My desire is dependent upon him being fairly "alpha" and not putting up with my considerable ability to hand out grief. I needed him to stop trying to please me and stop being afraid of doing things that might not please me. I guess you can say he had the nice guy syndrome. He's been more than willing to give it up. 

I know MMSLP isn't for everyone, and I've not spent a lot of time reading on that web site, but as I get better at articulating what behavior from my husband elicits a "desire response" in me, he is constantly shaking his head in amazement and telling me that what I tell him fits EXACTLY with what the MMSLP espouses. 

I think it comes down to power struggles in our relationship. We both have a hard time seeing the others' point of view. We are getting better at it, but we are also coming to accept that that is just part of our dynamic. Learning to alleviate the tension in our relationship through our sexual behavior has been key. What I feel like I'm "supposed" to do as a woman in today's society is very much at odds with what turns me on. I'm not about to give up my autonomy in the "real world." However, when the lights go out . . . well, I'll just say there is sweet release in not worrying about asserting my equal rights in the bedroom.


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## Chloesmum (Dec 27, 2013)

Can I add my 2 cents worth strictly speaking for myself and not others? I am a 49 year old lady, married for 20 years, sexless for 10 years. I want it, he doesn't. The more I don't get it the more I want it. I've found my sex drive has increased over the years. I hit my peak last spring and it hasn't let up yet. According to my doctor it probably never will let up, so I could be major high sex drive the rest of my life. I do understand that some women lose their drive partly due to life stresses (kids, work, house etc) but there are those of us who have it the opposite. I don't know how common this is, but if and when I do leave my husband, I honestly think I'd have a hard time finding a man who could keep up with me in the bedroom.


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## Oldfaithful (Nov 27, 2013)

OP I read so e other threads that you wrote. Do you have two small children and one is a baby?


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## Gomerpyle (Dec 27, 2013)

usmarriedguy said:


> .
> 
> A husband touching his wife but looks bored and like he would rather go watch TV is far different than a husband that is deriving joy from giving his wife joy. I find it very pleasant to touch my wife, to see her body react as she goes through the stages to the final moment. It is an empathetic response and it shows through to the SO.


Exactly. I guess "LD" means "Low Drive" and while there are certainly biological issues that can cause it, this is only the case for a small minority.

I can make dishes for my wife that I don't like to eat myself and get a lot of satisfaction out of that. But if I frown and complain all the way through it and tell her how disgusting it looks she isn't going to enjoy it. 

When people object to "duty sex" that is really what they are objecting to - being told so clearly that the other person dislikes making you happy. Now you are at the crux of the issue: why does your partner dislike seeing you happy.


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