# The burning ember of anger



## Ynot

It has been nearly four years since I have gotten divorced. My kids are both independent, self sufficient adults. I have not spoken to my ex in over 2 years and even then it was in passing, so it has been over 3 1/2 years since we had any meaningful conversation. I have largely moved on, dating and enjoying the company of other women. I have my own home, have re-established my life and my business. I have new friends. I have regained a sense of who I am.
But I still have this burning ember of anger over how I was treated when it all ended. Basically she staged an event to provoke a reaction from me. I know this is true because I was told this was what was happening to me at that time, along with how it was all going to play out. At the time I couldn't believe my wife was capable of doing that to me. I was in denial.
I spent years living with the guilt of having been lacking or not good enough, of causing the destruction of my life, my family, my marriage. 
As the years have passed I have come to realize the truth. Looking back I can now see all the signs that I was unable to recognize or place in context then. I do not claim to be perfect, but I was willing to work on things. I now realize that the only thing I was truly guilty of was trying to be the best husband I could be. I did everything for her. I paid all the bills. I took care of the house. I took care of the yard. 
But in the end, she walked away with no explanation, and made no effort to try to salvage anything from a 24 year marriage.
I have overcome the guilt and sense of betrayal, but I still have this burning ember of anger that I have been unable to extinguish. 
This weekend is my grandson's first birthday party. I know she will be there. I will have no choice but to see her. I have no plans to be anything but civil. I have no intentions of trying to be friendly or having any sort of conversation with her. But it will be very difficult to not let my anger get to me.

I guess I am just typing this out to get it off my chest. But all the same I would love to hear how others might handle this


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## Bananapeel

You're handling things just fine. Knowing you still harbor anger/resentment is good because it allows you to plan for it and not let it control you. Try to recognize that the anger gives her power over your life and refuse to let her have that control over you or your emotions. Also, try to focus on how to be a role model for your grandchild by living your life in a way you'd want him to, if he were ever in a similar situation.


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## SentHereForAReason

Ynot said:


> It has been nearly four years since I have gotten divorced. My kids are both independent, self sufficient adults. I have not spoken to my ex in over 2 years and even then it was in passing, so it has been over 3 1/2 years since we had any meaningful conversation. I have largely moved on, dating and enjoying the company of other women. I have my own home, have re-established my life and my business. I have new friends. I have regained a sense of who I am.
> But I still have this burning ember of anger over how I was treated when it all ended. Basically she staged an event to provoke a reaction from me. I know this is true because I was told this was what was happening to me at that time, along with how it was all going to play out. At the time I couldn't believe my wife was capable of doing that to me. I was in denial.
> I spent years living with the guilt of having been lacking or not good enough, of causing the destruction of my life, my family, my marriage.
> As the years have passed I have come to realize the truth. Looking back I can now see all the signs that I was unable to recognize or place in context then. I do not claim to be perfect, but I was willing to work on things. I now realize that the only thing I was truly guilty of was trying to be the best husband I could be. I did everything for her. I paid all the bills. I took care of the house. I took care of the yard.
> But in the end, she walked away with no explanation, and made no effort to try to salvage anything from a 24 year marriage.
> I have overcome the guilt and sense of betrayal, but I still have this burning ember of anger that I have been unable to extinguish.
> This weekend is my grandson's first birthday party. I know she will be there. I will have no choice but to see her. I have no plans to be anything but civil. I have no intentions of trying to be friendly or having any sort of conversation with her. But it will be very difficult to not let my anger get to me.
> 
> I guess I am just typing this out to get it off my chest. But all the same I would love to hear how others might handle this


How do your kids feel about all of this or are they primarily neutral, not informed about the really nasty stuff or just otherwise very involved (as they should be) with their own adult lives? 

I like your plan. I think the hardest thing will be what has been the hardest thing for me to deal with, when dealing with others that we were both friends with or associated with. I think it's going to be tough seeing her there and the other people being nice to her and thinking she is someone that she really isn't. Kind of like when, before STBXW moved out, when we were in church, at kids' events, etc. The people that even knew what she had done, just treating her like nothing was wrong (with her). Not sure there's much you can do about the anger but you can distract it by focusing all efforts on celebrating what you are there for.


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## minimalME

Your anger comes across in your posts, and I relate to it. 

I think most of us have people who've treated us badly in the past. When these thoughts come up from my memories, it stirs up the old anger, but it's fleeting. I have to let it go because it takes too much energy and becomes exhausting. Plus, the only person being affected is me.

I feel like anger keeps us in victim mode, and I don't want that in my life.


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## MEM2020

Ynot,

Your divorce thread was one of the best I’ve ever read. It came across as honest and rational. 

That said, IME there are two and only two paths to peace of mind. 
1. The replacement scenario (new partner who you truly love)
Or
2. Contribution recognition (this is where you recognize your very substantial contribution to the failure of the marriage)

Reaching a level of self awareness that produces (2), also increases the odds of achieving (1). 

This all begins and ends with being able to differentiate between blame and contribution. 




Ynot said:


> It has been nearly four years since I have gotten divorced. My kids are both independent, self sufficient adults. I have not spoken to my ex in over 2 years and even then it was in passing, so it has been over 3 1/2 years since we had any meaningful conversation. I have largely moved on, dating and enjoying the company of other women. I have my own home, have re-established my life and my business. I have new friends. I have regained a sense of who I am.
> But I still have this burning ember of anger over how I was treated when it all ended. Basically she staged an event to provoke a reaction from me. I know this is true because I was told this was what was happening to me at that time, along with how it was all going to play out. At the time I couldn't believe my wife was capable of doing that to me. I was in denial.
> I spent years living with the guilt of having been lacking or not good enough, of causing the destruction of my life, my family, my marriage.
> As the years have passed I have come to realize the truth. Looking back I can now see all the signs that I was unable to recognize or place in context then. I do not claim to be perfect, but I was willing to work on things. I now realize that the only thing I was truly guilty of was trying to be the best husband I could be. I did everything for her. I paid all the bills. I took care of the house. I took care of the yard.
> But in the end, she walked away with no explanation, and made no effort to try to salvage anything from a 24 year marriage.
> I have overcome the guilt and sense of betrayal, but I still have this burning ember of anger that I have been unable to extinguish.
> This weekend is my grandson's first birthday party. I know she will be there. I will have no choice but to see her. I have no plans to be anything but civil. I have no intentions of trying to be friendly or having any sort of conversation with her. But it will be very difficult to not let my anger get to me.
> 
> I guess I am just typing this out to get it off my chest. But all the same I would love to hear how others might handle this


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## TeddieG

Bananapeel said:


> You're handling things just fine. Knowing you still harbor anger/resentment is good because it allows you to plan for it and not let it control you. Try to recognize that the anger gives her power over your life and refuse to let her have that control over you or your emotions. Also, try to focus on how to be a role model for your grandchild by living your life in a way you'd want him to, if he were ever in a similar situation.


This is a good response, I think, because I agree it is useful to be in touch with your feelings and emotions and they don't get to control you. One of the things I learned a LONG time ago is that my feelings were trying to tell me something. And I also realized that it was pointless being angry at someone if I was powerless to do anything about what they had done or were doing that made me angry (my absent husband, my AWOL boss, the princess or the diva or the inflexible black-and-white thinking azzhat at work). So as I have learned to acknowledge my emotions, I can say to myself, I am going to have these emotions today, or, I am starting my day with these emotions, so I can be aware of it and not just randomly fly off the handle at a colleague or my boss. It took me a long time, but I finally said to myself, just recently, that I am happy for my ex that he is with someone who loves him and whom he loves (if they really do, they recently split for about a month and I suspect it won't be the first split, but I don't care anymore). I'm not there myself yet, in terms of being with someone I love, and I still am not ENTIRELY happy that he cheated on me and walked out on us without making an effort to talk about things that were bothering him. So every morning before I get out of bed I think about how I woke up feeling, whether it is about him and how his financial situation is so much better (because I had to scale back the grocery list the day before), or whether it is about having to deal with the princess at work or how I feel about the boss being AWOL for several days. . .I just say it. One of the things he said when he went back to OW this last time was that he didn't plan to be alone. Well, neither did I. Neither did you. There are a host of things that can keep that ember burning, blowing across it as it wanes and dies only to bring more life to the fire. So just name them and they can't control you. I think your response of being civil is courageous and generous, and just right.


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## 269370

What event did she stage to provoke a reaction? Perhaps that’s not important...but it made me curious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## anchorwatch

I use certain activities to prepare myself... calming myself of the emotions that block me. 

Maybe a long road, a solo on that bike up to the mountains or out the sea. Exhilarating, refreshing, calming, prepared. 

Best


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## azimuth

You've already accomplished so much. You've created a life for yourself, an individual identity, finding yourself, you should be really proud of the progress you've made because that takes a lot of emotional strength. You had a long marriage and I think feeling some residual anger even though you've moved on is totally normal. I wouldn't distract myself from the anger, though, because that just pushes it down. I've found that really feeling the anger helps a lot.

I'm only one year out, but in the months after my husband left I was so angry. A few times when I was home alone and didn't have my daughter with me, I would just cry at night, really let it all out. I felt much better after that. I know you're probably way beyond the crying it out phase but I say that to emphasize that feeling the pain and working through it really helped me. Not distracting or avoiding. I also keep an online private journal. Whenever I feel something significant or want to dialogue something with myself, I write it down. Anything, anytime. Sometimes it's just a sentence but it helps. Reading old entries feels great because I'm no longer in that phase.

For her to stage an event to start the divorce is truly cowardly. I know it's really hard to overcome something that's such an injustice. In the end she'll never be happy though. Let her live in the hell she created for herself. And you can delight in your life, your children and grandchild, your blessings and legacy.


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## chillymorn69

There are certin things that can't be forgiven.

Acceptance of what happened is the best you can do.

I would go to the party and would act warm and friendly to everyone laugh joke around be happy .

Show everybody how well your doing.

Get the grandson an extra thoughfull gift.


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## TeddieG

azimuth said:


> You've already accomplished so much. You've created a life for yourself, an individual identity, finding yourself, you should be really proud of the progress you've made because that takes a lot of emotional strength. You had a long marriage and I think feeling some residual anger even though you've moved on is totally normal. I wouldn't distract myself from the anger, though, because that just pushes it down. I've found that really feeling the anger helps a lot.
> 
> I'm only one year out, but in the months after my husband left I was so angry. A few times when I was home alone and didn't have my daughter with me, I would just cry at night, really let it all out. I felt much better after that. I know you're probably way beyond the crying it out phase but I say that to emphasize that feeling the pain and working through it really helped me. Not distracting or avoiding. I also keep an online private journal. Whenever I feel something significant or want to dialogue something with myself, I write it down. Anything, anytime. Sometimes it's just a sentence but it helps. Reading old entries feels great because I'm no longer in that phase.
> 
> For her to stage an event to start the divorce is truly cowardly. I know it's really hard to overcome something that's such an injustice. In the end she'll never be happy though. Let her live in the hell she created for herself. And you can delight in your life, your children and grandchild, your blessings and legacy.


I too found that acknowledging my anger really helped; it pushed me along through the stages of grief and helped me get to acceptance faster.


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## Emerging Buddhist

My friend, my turning point in anger was when I realized I gave up control to someone who wanted that in me as leverage... losing it was contagious to every other aspect in my life as I fought to maintain a marriage that couldn't exist in a peaceful form.

I am still dealing with my ex in one last area, and that goes on the market next week... I ended up doing 95% of the work to prepare the house and she was upset over the small percentage she had to deal with and lashed out at me calling me selfish and self-centered for expecting her to share the work, words that used to provoke the anger she drove so well.

I knew when I responded "you can't hurt me anymore" and left without another thought, I knew I was at true peace.

She cannot hurt you anymore... let it go.


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## jorgegene

its been some 8 years plus since i found out my former partner cheated on me. i had suspected it for months
but like almost all of us i was in denial.

8 years later, i still occasionally ruminate about it and moments of anger still strike me.
as MEM says, i did try to look at myself and come to terms with my contributions that helped lead to failure.

like you Ynot, i have moved on and had several relationships since then and have remarried to a wonderful woman (MEM's #1).

but still...........

personally, i think anger is ok. as long as you don't act on it.. i believe somehow it's part of the healing process.
the anger ebbs and diminishes as the months and years go by. still occasionally flaring up, but slowly leaving and either eventually
going away for good replaced by complete peace, or remaining forever, but becoming just another small piece of our life story.

and another thing i learned........anger sure beats depression.


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## Wolf1974

Not everything deserves forgiveness or a pass. I wouldn’t give my x wife one for what she did either. However the one thing I can 100% get behind is I love my kids more than I loathe her. So we have very often had joint parties together and even sit together at out kids plays and concerts. We certainly don’t have to but it makes things easier for my kids so I focus my energy into that and that alone. Still don’t like my x wife and think she is a terrible person but I can be civil.


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## Ynot

I thank all of you who commented with your thoughts. It is easy to fall into the pattern of circular reasoning that can spiral into rage or depression. It is good to have others come along and boot you out of that circular reasoning by offering alternative ways of thinking about something. I especially like the idea that by not giving into anger I have rejected the control that once ruled me. I am a different person now than I was then. I no longer have her on the pedestal she once enjoyed. I do not have to allow her very presence to affect me at all.


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## MEM2020

Prime,
The mechanics of departure are interesting but typically not very revealing. The core question for me is usually: WHY did the person WANT to end the marriage? 

At the highest level of abstraction there is either:
1. An intolerable level of negative 
2. The absence of a minimum amount of positive

I look at it this way because there is a common pattern to the anguished howls of the abandoned: I didn’t do anything wrong 

My guess is that those statements are generally pretty fair. Those marriages didn’t end due to abuse, betrayal or the lack of the basic mechanics of marriage: time, money, effort and sacrifice. 

Instead, they ended due to (2). And oddly enough (2), does NOT imply the abandoned weren’t loving partners. Not at all. Rather that they weren’t sufficiently lovable - to the partner who left. Doesn’t mean they aren’t generally lovable. Does mean they weren’t quite right for their ex partner. 






inmyprime said:


> What event did she stage to provoke a reaction? Perhaps that’s not important...but it made me curious.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> Prime,
> The mechanics of departure are interesting but typically not very revealing. The core question for me is usually: WHY did the person WANT to end the marriage?
> 
> At the highest level of abstraction there is either:
> 1. An intolerable level of negative
> 2. The absence of a minimum amount of positive
> 
> I look at it this way because there is a common pattern to the anguished howls of the abandoned: I didn’t do anything wrong
> 
> My guess is that those statements are generally pretty fair. Those marriages didn’t end due to abuse, betrayal or the lack of the basic mechanics of marriage: time, money, effort and sacrifice.
> 
> Instead, they ended due to (2). And oddly enough (2), does NOT imply the abandoned weren’t loving partners. Not at all. Rather that they weren’t sufficiently lovable - to the partner who left. Doesn’t mean they aren’t generally lovable. Does mean they weren’t quite right for their ex partner.


I never said I was faultless, nor have I ever said she did not have a right to leave. After all each of us has the absolute right, actually obligation or duty, to pursue our own happiness. That is not burning ember. The burning ember arises out of the complete lack of respect I was shown as a human being, which ultimately is only about honesty. I am not angry at her for leaving, but in not having enough respect for me as a human being to actually be honest about it, instead of dragging it out to my detriment. No one has the right to abuse another, even if it is in our own best interest. Because even if it was #2 as you have stated, we have an obligation to the other, especially one we have spent years with and established all sorts of other arrangements based on trust and understanding with, to be honest with them.


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## MEM2020

Ynot,
My goal isn’t to justify Y2’s behavior, just explain it. 

This is a guess, but it is a guess based on the long, detailed and I believe highly accurate depiction of events captured in your thread. 

In her head - Y2 saw you as a good partner. Good provider, loving, generous, smart. 

In her heart - well - she wasn’t happy. Was that her own stuff, your stuff or your dynamic? I doubt she could say with confidence. 

Thing is, she really didn’t have a valid reason to leave, but she strongly wanted/needed to leave. So she did a bunch of dishonest stuff to create the catalyst for termination. Unfair - but - unsurprising. 

And if you think long and hard about the final decade of your marriage, and Y2’s actions towards you, perhaps you will realize that it was fairly obvious that Y2 didn’t love you during that time. You loved her but she didn’t love you. 

If you conclude that is true - it makes for a different assessment of the situation. It’s why she was able to mistreat you so badly at the end - because you had doormatted your way through a decade of mistreatment. Often, when a person loses respect for a partner, they feel justified in treating that partner very badly. 




Ynot said:


> I never said I was faultless, nor have I ever said she did not have a right to leave. After all each of us has the absolute right, actually obligation or duty, to pursue our own happiness. That is not burning ember. The burning ember arises out of the complete lack of respect I was shown as a human being, which ultimately is only about honesty. I am not angry at her for leaving, but in not having enough respect for me as a human being to actually be honest about it, instead of dragging it out to my detriment. No one has the right to abuse another, even if it is in our own best interest. Because even if it was #2 as you have stated, we have an obligation to the other, especially one we have spent years with and established all sorts of other arrangements based on trust and understanding with, to be honest with them.


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## john117

The ember will always be there. Whether it stays glowing meekly or flares up and consumes you is up to you.

In a couple weeks it will be six months we're separated. The house is for sale, decent traffic and finally a competent realtor... But there's an ember in me too. Has to be. 

You have to distinguish between regular shoulda woulda moments and the overall strategy. While your or her actions could inpact the tactical outcomes, the strategic outcome was preordained. If it doesn't work it doesn't work. 

I wish we could have made it work. But such is life.


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## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> Ynot,
> My goal isn’t to justify Y2’s behavior, just explain it.
> 
> This is a guess, but it is a guess based on the long, detailed and I believe highly accurate depiction of events captured in your thread.
> 
> In her head - Y2 saw you as a good partner. Good provider, loving, generous, smart.
> 
> In her heart - well - she wasn’t happy. Was that her own stuff, your stuff or your dynamic? I doubt she could say with confidence.
> 
> Thing is, she really didn’t have a valid reason to leave, but she strongly wanted/needed to leave. So she did a bunch of dishonest stuff to create the catalyst for termination. Unfair - but - unsurprising.
> 
> And if you think long and hard about the final decade of your marriage, and Y2’s actions towards you, perhaps you will realize that it was fairly obvious that Y2 didn’t love you during that time. You loved her but she didn’t love you.
> 
> If you conclude that is true - it makes for a different assessment of the situation. It’s why she was able to mistreat you so badly at the end - because you had doormatted your way through a decade of mistreatment. Often, when a person loses respect for a partner, they feel justified in treating that partner very badly.


As I said, I never said I was faultless. The situation, as you described it, may be entirely true. But that does not mean I have to be happy about it or accept it. In fact, I would say my not accepting it in the first place in large part contributed to the unhappiness and discomfort I felt for that whole period of time. I do not have to accept allowing anyone to treat me that way.


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## MEM2020

No one would be happy about being mistreated the way you were. 

There is however a giant difference between being happy about something - vs accepting and understanding why it happened. 

I am not blaming you for being human and therefore flawed. I could fill the page with mine own. 

So I’m going share a real world example - you may laugh - or scoff or maybe this will resonate:

Took me 20+ years to realize that M2 and I had radically different views of what we signed up for. I thought I was signing up to be her life partner. 

She sees it different. In her view we signed up to be fully synchronized in everything. Meaning - that - time, money, emotional energy - sex - you make sure the other person is ok with what you want to do - they have veto power. 

Thing is - I have an excellent memory and cannot recall a veto, in either direction. I always thought it was silly she would ask if it was ok to meet friends for lunch on the weekend. Why would I ever veto that? She asks every time. Because situation reversed, she NEEDS to be asked. If I ask, she always says yes. If I don’t sometimes bad stuff happens. 





Ynot said:


> As I said, I never said I was faultless. The situation, as you described it, may be entirely true. But that does not mean I have to be happy about it or accept it. In fact, I would say my not accepting it in the first place in large part contributed to the unhappiness and discomfort I felt for that whole period of time. I do not have to accept allowing anyone to treat me that way.


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## MEM2020

To finish the thought below, when I first realized that this whole - ask permission thing - was a drop dead requirement for M2, I was sort of stunned. And then I was angry, no ****ing way was I going to ask permission to do basic stuff. 

In fact I never really liked that M2 would ask ME those type questions. Especially since, this is normal life stuff - why would I object to it. And I’m not done yet - almost but not quite. If M2 does any kind of time consuming stuff on the house, she apologizes, says she isn’t ignoring me. And oh yes - she expects/needs the same type reassurance from me. 

So - I was DECIDEDLY UNHAPPY when I figured all this out. Honestly it seemed bat **** crazy on some level. 

And after about a year of arguing with myself I bit the pillow and mirrored her behavior. Babe (I’d say), do you mind if I have dinner with FRIEND next Wednesday?

And the most amazing thing happened. She always said yes, almost always said it immediately and with a sincere smile. 

Acceptance is different than happiness. Coda on this: None of this makes me unhappy at all - anymore. It has nothing to do with me, it’s purely an accommodation of M2’s need to know that I am at least giving her a chance to have input on what I’m going to do. 

For example, if you had accepted your wife had stopped loving you, your whole approach to her would have changed. Might have got divorced sooner, might have fixed what was broke. Hard as it is, acceptance is your friend.




MEM2020 said:


> No one would be happy about being mistreated the way you were.
> 
> There is however a giant difference between being happy about something - vs accepting and understanding why it happened.
> 
> I am not blaming you for being human and therefore flawed. I could fill the page with mine own.
> 
> So I’m going share a real world example - you may laugh - or scoff or maybe this will resonate:
> 
> Took me 20+ years to realize that M2 and I had radically different views of what we signed up for. I thought I was signing up to be her life partner.
> 
> She sees it different. In her view we signed up to be fully synchronized in everything. Meaning - that - time, money, emotional energy - sex - you make sure the other person is ok with what you want to do - they have veto power.
> 
> Thing is - I have an excellent memory and cannot recall a veto, in either direction. I always thought it was silly she would ask if it was ok to meet friends for lunch on the weekend. Why would I ever veto that? She asks every time. Because situation reversed, she NEEDS to be asked. If I ask, she always says yes. If I don’t sometimes bad stuff happens.


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## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> To finish the thought below, when I first realized that this whole - ask permission thing - was a drop dead requirement for M2, I was sort of stunned. And then I was angry, no ****ing way was I going to ask permission to do basic stuff.
> 
> In fact I never really liked that M2 would ask ME those type questions. Especially since, this is normal life stuff - why would I object to it. And I’m not done yet - almost but not quite. If M2 does any kind of time consuming stuff on the house, she apologizes, says she isn’t ignoring me. And oh yes - she expects/needs the same type reassurance from me.
> 
> So - I was DECIDEDLY UNHAPPY when I figured all this out. Honestly it seemed bat **** crazy on some level.
> 
> And after about a year of arguing with myself I bit the pillow and mirrored her behavior. Babe (I’d say), do you mind if I have dinner with FRIEND next Wednesday?
> 
> And the most amazing thing happened. She always said yes, almost always said it immediately and with a sincere smile.
> 
> Acceptance is different than happiness. Coda on this: None of this makes me unhappy at all - anymore. It has nothing to do with me, it’s purely an accommodation of M2’s need to know that I am at least giving her a chance to have input on what I’m going to do.
> 
> For example, if you had accepted your wife had stopped loving you, your whole approach to her would have changed. Might have got divorced sooner, might have fixed what was broke. Hard as it is, acceptance is your friend.


Acceptance is not the problem as I have said before. I accept we are not together, I accept we won't get back together. I accept she has every right to look after her own self interests. Acceptance is NOT the issue, here. 
Rather it is the anger that still exists over how I was treated. I understand that in many ways I had allowed myself to be treated that way. I acknowledge that. 
But it does not change the fact the she still chose to behave the way she behaved. It does not change the fact that I spent months dealing with the aftermath of how she behaved. It does not mean that I want to be her friend, or even be near her. s far as I am concerned, anyone who can act with such disregard and disrespect towards another human being is not worthy of my time or my friendship. Unfortunately I am going to be in close quarters with her (and probably her new BF) and I still harbor this anger which I have been unable to extinguish despite every effort on my part to do so.


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## Affaircare

@Ynot, 

Okay let's get into the anger. Are you aware that anger is a feeling just like any other emotion? It doesn't "just happen" any more than happiness, sadness or calmness "just happen"--you are in control of how you feel. 

So since anger is a feeling just like any other emotion, it's okay. You can feel angry if that's what you want to feel. By the same token, you could choose to feel something else too. For some reason, up to this point, you have believed that anger "works for you" and you've chosen to hold onto it. Soooo...why is that? You don't have to answer, just ask yourself "Why do I think being angry works for me?" and "Why have I chose to hang onto this feeling of anger?" 

Couple of other thought-provoking questions:

1) Did you know anger can be positive? Ever thought of it that way? Anger is your body or mind's way of saying "This is REALLY not okay with me!"

2) What are you trying to get with your anger? An apology? Karma? Hurt her like she hurt you? What?

3) What "anger alerts" do you know of in your body? For example, I tend to *not* speak up, so when I start to get angry, I hold my breath (literally not letting the words out of my mouth) and I feel like a weight on my chest. Nowadays, when I notice myself holding my breath and feel that weight on my chest, I ask myself "What am I NOT OKAY about? What's bugging me?" 

4) What tools could you use to deal with your anger OTHER THAN yelling or punching something? 
a. Stress management techniques?
b. Developing Empathy? (viewing the other person as a flawed human being too?)
c. Regulating your emotions and attitude?
d. Changing that voice inside your head that is talking you down?
e. Using assertive communication? (not avoidance, passive-aggressiveness, aggression, or defense, but just stating your truth)
f. Adjusting your expectations?
g. Forgiving? (that doesn't mean forgetting--it means laying down the weapon and choosing to no longer pick it up.)
h. Retreating to think? (taking a time out but also setting a time to return to deal with it.)

I'll just start with some of these fairly basic anger concepts and see if any of them resonate with you. You're going to be in close proximity. Do you really want to let go of this anger? Then, of the things I've said, which ones hit a chord with you?


----------



## Betrayedone

I can totally relate to your situation........almost identical to mine. Still have latent anger. I deal with it my by having made a vow to NEVER EVER see her or talk to her again UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. If one of my kids has a major event ONE of us will attend by prior arrangement. I will often sponsor a follow up event at my place on my terms for celebration on a different day. If I am unable to attend a wedding, for instance, I will hire my own videographer to record the event and instruct him/her to make sure there is no footage of the *****. Problem solved.


----------



## Betrayedone

Ynot said:


> Acceptance is not the problem as I have said before. I accept we are not together, I accept we won't get back together. I accept she has every right to look after her own self interests. Acceptance is NOT the issue, here.
> Rather it is the anger that still exists over how I was treated. I understand that in many ways I had allowed myself to be treated that way. I acknowledge that.
> But it does not change the fact the she still chose to behave the way she behaved. It does not change the fact that I spent months dealing with the aftermath of how she behaved. It does not mean that I want to be her friend, or even be near her. s far as I am concerned, anyone who can act with such disregard and disrespect towards another human being is not worthy of my time or my friendship. Unfortunately I am going to be in close quarters with her (and probably her new BF) and I still harbor this anger which I have been unable to extinguish despite every effort on my part to do so.


No WAY I would subject myself to her presence and the presence of her BF!


----------



## Diana7

Ynot said:


> It has been nearly four years since I have gotten divorced. My kids are both independent, self sufficient adults. I have not spoken to my ex in over 2 years and even then it was in passing, so it has been over 3 1/2 years since we had any meaningful conversation. I have largely moved on, dating and enjoying the company of other women. I have my own home, have re-established my life and my business. I have new friends. I have regained a sense of who I am.
> But I still have this burning ember of anger over how I was treated when it all ended. Basically she staged an event to provoke a reaction from me. I know this is true because I was told this was what was happening to me at that time, along with how it was all going to play out. At the time I couldn't believe my wife was capable of doing that to me. I was in denial.
> I spent years living with the guilt of having been lacking or not good enough, of causing the destruction of my life, my family, my marriage.
> As the years have passed I have come to realize the truth. Looking back I can now see all the signs that I was unable to recognize or place in context then. I do not claim to be perfect, but I was willing to work on things. I now realize that the only thing I was truly guilty of was trying to be the best husband I could be. I did everything for her. I paid all the bills. I took care of the house. I took care of the yard.
> But in the end, she walked away with no explanation, and made no effort to try to salvage anything from a 24 year marriage.
> I have overcome the guilt and sense of betrayal, but I still have this burning ember of anger that I have been unable to extinguish.
> This weekend is my grandson's first birthday party. I know she will be there. I will have no choice but to see her. I have no plans to be anything but civil. I have no intentions of trying to be friendly or having any sort of conversation with her. But it will be very difficult to not let my anger get to me.
> 
> I guess I am just typing this out to get it off my chest. But all the same I would love to hear how others might handle this


The ONLY way get rid of anger, resentment and bitterness is to forgive. Its a decision to forgive and let things go. We have both done that with our past marriage spouses who hurt us badly and it works. 
You may need to do it many times, each time you think of her and get angry, just say, I forgive (whatever her name is) and I am letting that go. 

I know people who have forgiven the most appalling things done to them so don't say you cant do it. Does she deserve it? No, but do it anyway for your sake. 

BY the way forgiving someone isn't saying they did nothing wrong, but that you are not going to let what happened ruin the rest of your life. The ONLY one you are hurting is yourself if you wont let go.

A young lady I know was sexually molested by her father for many years as a child. When she made that decision to forgive, she said that is was as if she had come out of a dark cold cell into a beautiful garden. She made that decision that even though he had ruined her childhood, she wasn't going to let him ruin her adult life.


----------



## Ynot

Affaircare said:


> @Ynot,
> 
> Okay let's get into the anger. Are you aware that anger is a feeling just like any other emotion? It doesn't "just happen" any more than happiness, sadness or calmness "just happen"--you are in control of how you feel.
> 
> So since anger is a feeling just like any other emotion, it's okay. You can feel angry if that's what you want to feel. By the same token, you could choose to feel something else too. For some reason, up to this point, you have believed that anger "works for you" and you've chosen to hold onto it. Soooo...why is that? You don't have to answer, just ask yourself "Why do I think being angry works for me?" and "Why have I chose to hang onto this feeling of anger?"
> 
> Couple of other thought-provoking questions:
> 
> 1) Did you know anger can be positive? Ever thought of it that way? Anger is your body or mind's way of saying "This is REALLY not okay with me!"
> Yes, because this is where I am at in my mind. Being friendly is NOT okay with me.
> 2) What are you trying to get with your anger? An apology? Karma? Hurt her like she hurt you? What?
> I guess, just to let her know that how she acted is NOT okay with me
> 3) What "anger alerts" do you know of in your body? For example, I tend to *not* speak up, so when I start to get angry, I hold my breath (literally not letting the words out of my mouth) and I feel like a weight on my chest. Nowadays, when I notice myself holding my breath and feel that weight on my chest, I ask myself "What am I NOT OKAY about? What's bugging me?"
> Typically I do the same thing
> 4) What tools could you use to deal with your anger OTHER THAN yelling or punching something?
> I don't react with hitting or yelling, so I would guess my reaction is more to shut down
> a. Stress management techniques?
> I already do this, I talk myself down
> b. Developing Empathy? (viewing the other person as a flawed human being too?)
> I have done this, but again it doesn't mean that I am okay with her or her actions
> c. Regulating your emotions and attitude?
> See #a above
> d. Changing that voice inside your head that is talking you down?
> Again, I already do this
> e. Using assertive communication? (not avoidance, passive-aggressiveness, aggression, or defense, but just stating your truth)
> This may be my dilemma because while I would very much enjoy getting this off my chest, it is not the time or the place
> f. Adjusting your expectations?
> I have done this as well. I realize that my fear is in my head and more than likely the worst thing that could happen probably won't
> g. Forgiving? (that doesn't mean forgetting--it means laying down the weapon and choosing to no longer pick it up.)
> If I could forgive her for this I wouldn't have the anger.
> h. Retreating to think? (taking a time out but also setting a time to return to deal with it.)
> This is probably my best option
> 
> I'll just start with some of these fairly basic anger concepts and see if any of them resonate with you. You're going to be in close proximity. Do you really want to let go of this anger? Then, of the things I've said, which ones hit a chord with you?


----------



## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> The ONLY way get rid of anger, resentment and bitterness is to forgive. Its a decision to forgive and let things go. We have both done that with our past marriage spouses who hurt us badly and it works.
> You may need to do it many times, each time you think of her and get angry, just say, I forgive (whatever her name is) and I am letting that go.
> 
> I know people who have forgiven the most appalling things done to them so don't say you cant do it. Does she deserve it? No, but do it anyway for your sake.
> 
> BY the way forgiving someone isn't saying they did nothing wrong, but that you are not going to let what happened ruin the rest of your life. The ONLY one you are hurting is yourself if you wont let go.
> 
> A young lady I know was sexually molested by her father for many years as a child. When she made that decision to forgive, she said that is was as if she had come out of a dark cold cell into a beautiful garden. She made that decision that even though he had ruined her childhood, she wasn't going to let him ruin her adult life.


999 days out of 1000, this is not even an issue in my life. I have forgiven her for what she did, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten. It doesn't rule my life, it is just that for several hours I will be in a close proximity to her. We are not friends. I have no intention of allowing her to enjoy the image that everything is OK between us (her every action is to enhance her image) when it is not. I am not good at pretending.


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## MEM2020

Wired magazine has a great article about memory and emotion and the way we treat memories of traumatic events.

If you truly want to let go of your anger over time, you can. That’s a choice. 

You often seem to have an inherently adversarial reaction to feedback regarding your contribution to THE WAY the marriage ended. 

In my experience, people who are unable to see their own contributions to situations, tend to feel angrier and stay angrier for longer, than folks who are able to say: I made some poor choices over time, if I had a do over - I’d handle it different/better. 

That is often a function of prioritizing being right/winning over comprehension. 




Ynot said:


> Acceptance is not the problem as I have said before. I accept we are not together, I accept we won't get back together. I accept she has every right to look after her own self interests. Acceptance is NOT the issue, here.
> Rather it is the anger that still exists over how I was treated. I understand that in many ways I had allowed myself to be treated that way. I acknowledge that.
> But it does not change the fact the she still chose to behave the way she behaved. It does not change the fact that I spent months dealing with the aftermath of how she behaved. It does not mean that I want to be her friend, or even be near her. s far as I am concerned, anyone who can act with such disregard and disrespect towards another human being is not worthy of my time or my friendship. Unfortunately I am going to be in close quarters with her (and probably her new BF) and I still harbor this anger which I have been unable to extinguish despite every effort on my part to do so.


----------



## MEM2020

That’s right, you shouldn’t pretend. The nonsense hug cheek kiss stuff people tolerate from folks who’ve treated them badly - is unhealthy. 

That said - it isn’t cool to go beyond ‘ignoring the other party’ at an event like this. 




Ynot said:


> 999 days out of 1000, this is not even an issue in my life. I have forgiven her for what she did, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten. It doesn't rule my life, it is just that for several hours I will be in a close proximity to her. We are not friends. I have no intention of allowing her to enjoy the image that everything is OK between us (her every action is to enhance her image) when it is not. I am not good at pretending.


----------



## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> Wired magazine has a great article about memory and emotion and the way we treat memories of traumatic events.
> 
> If you truly want to let go of your anger over time, you can. That’s a choice.
> 
> You often seem to have an inherently adversarial reaction to feedback regarding your contribution to THE WAY the marriage ended.
> 
> In my experience, people who are unable to see their own contributions to situations, tend to feel angrier and stay angrier for longer, than folks who are able to say: I made some poor choices over time, if I had a do over - I’d handle it different/better.
> 
> That is often a function of prioritizing being right/winning over comprehension.


I am not sure where you come up with me having an adversarial reaction or not accepting my part of the blame. I have already admitted to my part of the blame, but as I have said a number of times, the way she chose to stage events to provoke reactions on my part is not something that is okay with me. I do not have to accept what happened to me. It is/was not okay with me.


----------



## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> That’s right, you shouldn’t pretend. The nonsense hug cheek kiss stuff people tolerate from folks who’ve treated them badly - is unhealthy.
> 
> That said - it isn’t cool to go beyond ‘ignoring the other party’ at an event like this.


I have never said I intended to go beyond that point, just that it will not be comfortable for me and I will not enjoy it. But at the same time my son, his wife and my 1 year old grandson do not deserve to be made uncomfortable as well. They are not party to what my ex did.
The whole point of this thread was just to ask how others might handle being in a similar situation.


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## Diana7

Ynot said:


> 999 days out of 1000, this is not even an issue in my life. I have forgiven her for what she did, but that doesn't mean I have forgotten. It doesn't rule my life, it is just that for several hours I will be in a close proximity to her. We are not friends. I have no intention of allowing her to enjoy the image that everything is OK between us (her every action is to enhance her image) when it is not. I am not good at pretending.


The fact that these feelings of anger and bitterness still emerge when you think about her, show that you haven't forgiven her. No, we cant forget, but we can forgive so that the memories don't make us angry or bitter.


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## Affaircare

@Ynot, 

Okay let's summarize:

You have a burning ember of anger. Your grandson's first birthday is coming up and XW will be there with BF...and darned if you're going to miss it cuz she's there! Being friendly is NOT okay with you. How she treated you in the past is NOT okay with you (You are indifferent to how she treats you now, in the present). You notice that when something isn't okay with you, that you hold your breath, feel a weight on your chest, and "shut down." You already do stress management techniques, developed some level of empathy, regulated your emotions and attitude, changed that nagging voice in your head, and adjusted your expectations as methods of coping with the ember of anger. You have not used assertive communication, forgiven her, or retreated to think. 

Is that a good summary?

Here's what I suspect: you are mad about the past. You were treated VERY poorly and even though you've shut down and keep your tongue for those like your son and his wife who you said "don't deserve a fuss" inside yourself you have never spoken up for yourself or said out loud to anyone "This was not okay! I am not okay with how I was treated!" 

Now...at your grandson's first birthday is hardly the time to get into a tiff with your XW over how she acted. Even if she really was 100% in the wrong, you would look like the vindictive ex. So how do you speak assertively, work on forgiving her, and tell when it is the right time to retreat and think? Right?

Let me tell you a story. Forgiving someone does not mean "What you did wrong is alright" nor does it mean "I am okay with what transpired." Forgiving is a legal term, actually, because person A did something to person B, and now person A is in person B's debt! So think of forgiving like you're a business owner. A debt is owed! In this instance, your XW treated you HORRIBLY and because of her wrong treatment, she owes you the debt of apology or at least admitting she was wrong. As of this moment, that is a weapon you can wield against her! It's like your Ace in the hole card that will always win the fight: "Oh yeah! Well not only did you CHEAT on me but you ____ too!" and instantly you win because she was wrong! 

The ember of anger is you holding onto the weapon and enforcing the debt owed. 
Forgiveness is you volunteering to lay down the weapon and writing off the debt. 

Forgiveness doesn't mean FORGETTING nor APPROVING. It just means accepting that you can't get blood out of a turnip. 

Soooo...let me tell you a brief story. My XH cheated on me with a Wistress in another state. One day he moved out and never told me anything--he just didn't come home. And then a couple days later, I got an article of intimate clothing in the mail from a hotel, and it was addressed to "Mrs. __(our last name)___" only it wasn't mine...it was hers. And I had the smoking gun of adultery. 

Naturally I was MAD. Now, by nature I'm not one to be angry for a long time or vindictive, so I was surprised when I felt that level of anger and for such a long time. It didn't feel like the Real Me inside my heart...but it was honest. I really was mad! But as I studied anger, I came to realize that I was mad partly at him and partly at myself for never standing up for myself. I never said out loud, "Hey, committing adultery is NOT OKAY with me." "Treating me like a maid and babysitter is NOT OKAY with me." "Feeding me scraps of affection is NOT OKAY with me" etc. This ties in with what @MEM2020 is saying: my part of this is that I never spoke up and that was on me! I had to accept that my part of this is that when something is not okay, I have a responsibility to speak about it out loud. 

So, to forgive him, first I had to be read to lay down the weapon. I literally envisioned a scimitar that I was holding over his head. I also literally envisioned bringing the sword down and laying it on the ground, and vowing to never pick it up again FOR ME. I remember right where it is. I also remember why the sword exists in the first place...even after more than 15 years! But I do not pick it up...for me. I promised I wouldn't, and I keep my promises, and if I pick it up, it would be hurting myself, not him. So I vowed to lay it down. 

Next, I wrote out every darn little nitpicky thing that bugged me. Every little thing I was mad about--and I mean some were big, giant bold letters, and some were "My god I can't believe I am so petty as to be mad about this, but to be honest, I am!" I wrote it down. It was about 3 pages long (I was mad)... and I took it out to the garden and I burned it. As it burned, I watched the smoke ascend and I reflected that once it was burned I couldn't put it back together--it was gone. I watched smoke go up and thought about turning anger into something that was the high road and was heavenly. I watched paper turn to ash which would nourish and enrich the ground. And I let all the stuff that was written on those pages GO and turn into something positive. The smoke turned to a prayer for good. The ash turned into a garden that gave me peace. And all that scribbling and bold letters ... I LET IT GO. 

To end the story, I had to attend graduation with my XH...and my hubby at the time, Dear Hubby (whom I dearly loved). I did not pretend things were "okay" between my XH and I because they weren't. I sat at the head of one table...he sat at the foot of another. When we met in the room, I said "Hello", nodded my head in a civil greeting, and kept walking past. I didn't make a scene, but I didn't act like I liked the man, because you know what? I didn't! If someone had said something to me I would have said, "I bear him no ill will, but our marriage was toxic. I am better off without him." The End. 

Does this make sense to you, @Ynot? Does it help in any way? 

Maybe you need to speak up. Maybe you need to think about it and come up with one sentence that is speaking up for yourself but not blaming and negative, like "I was treated very poorly and I'm now much happier without her"... Maybe you need to lay down the GreatSword and burn some journal pages (or make another ritual that works for you).


----------



## 269370

MEM2020 said:


> Wired magazine has a great article about memory and emotion and the way we treat memories of traumatic events.
> 
> 
> 
> If you truly want to let go of your anger over time, you can. That’s a choice.
> 
> 
> 
> You often seem to have an inherently adversarial reaction to feedback regarding your contribution to THE WAY the marriage ended.
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience, people who are unable to see their own contributions to situations, tend to feel angrier and stay angrier for longer, than folks who are able to say: I made some poor choices over time, if I had a do over - I’d handle it different/better.
> 
> 
> 
> That is often a function of prioritizing being right/winning over comprehension.




It comes back to acceptance. It’s a powerful concept. Anger is the opposite of acceptance. It’s a protest. Doesn’t mean one SHOULDN’T feel anger. Those are all separate (and necessary) stages of grief.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## azimuth

Ynot said:


> I have never said I intended to go beyond that point, just that it will not be comfortable for me and I will not enjoy it. But at the same time my son, his wife and my 1 year old grandson do not deserve to be made uncomfortable as well. They are not party to what my ex did.
> The whole point of this thread was just to ask how others might handle being in a similar situation.


I have not read your original thread so I'm sure this was covered then, but have you told your ex how much she hurt you and you know how she orchestrated the divorce? If not that might be a reason why the anger is still there. But if you did, and she just didn't care or it didn't sink in or she's just too self-absorbed to understand, then you can take solace in the fact that it doesn't matter what you say or do she's never going to agree that she did a bad thing to end your marriage dishonestly and treated you with disrespect. It'll just never happen for her, she won't ever get it. It might help to write a letter but not send it, where you tell her exactly how you feel, don't hold back. Never send it because it still won't change her. But it would therapeutic to type and read, and it would get your anger out.

As for the party, I'm wondering are your kids and their mom perpetuating the idea that everything's all good, and you're perhaps resentful of that? Do they know you feel this way? I would talk to them before the party and say you don't want any family photos with her or anything like that. My parents are divorced and they're able to interact amicably, even though they did horrible things to each other. In fact, both of them are walking my brother down the aisle at his wedding next month. Maybe you could set a goal for yourself to be able to something small the next time you have to see her, and build from there.

Do you feel like she needs to have some consequences, and feel the same pain that you did? I'm sorry to say but it seems like some people never get hit by the karma bus, and even if they do, they'll spin it a way that makes them never feel the pain or lose in life.


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## Ynot

To all who have responded or read this thread. In no way shape or form am I trying to be adversarial or argumentative. I am raising my points not out of anger or resistance but out of trying to gain an understanding. I want nothing more than to stamp out this last glowing coal of my past. But I know it is still there. My life really is so much better than it was before and I really am so much better without her in my life. But this is an event so rare but so well known as coming up, that it is playing on my mind. I go for weeks, simply living my life. But this, I know, is coming up. So it is rekindled.


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## john117

The past is called the past for a reason. It happened. Continuing anger will not magically alter the past. 

It took me weeks  of introspection to get over my "John, buddy, a lot of good it did to you to have this here experience in psychology. Didn't do didly squat for ya". A few more weeks of "shoulda woulda coulda", running simulations in my head... Finally it dawned on me. Stuff happens. 

I've run into her a couple times, notably in DD1's graduation. I feel I did well by not making a mountain out of the fallout. It's like software. It works, until it doesn't.

Live and let live.


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## Marc878

No need to make nice. IMO civil but distant. 

You are there for your kids and grandchild. Keep it at that level.


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## Ynot

john117 said:


> The past is called the past for a reason. It happened. Continuing anger will not magically alter the past.
> 
> It took me weeks  of introspection to get over my "John, buddy, a lot of good it did to you to have this here experience in psychology. Didn't do didly squat for ya". A few more weeks of "shoulda woulda coulda", running simulations in my head... Finally it dawned on me. Stuff happens.
> 
> I've run into her a couple times, notably in DD1's graduation. I feel I did well by not making a mountain out of the fallout. It's like software. It works, until it doesn't.
> 
> Live and let live.


That is great, but our situations are a tad bit different. I don't disagree that the past is the past, but in your case you were mentally preparing for your split. In my world I was largely blind sided but the whole thing. I was totally and utterly unprepared for it. Your world change and you could look at it and think "at least this was MY choice". Instead I was like "WTF just happened, where the F am I at and how did I even get here!" So many changes, all imposed on me without my consent or choice.


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## MEM2020

Ynot,
You describe a marriage where your wife didn’t spend much time with you, allowed very little and mainly vanilla sex and was very selfish with regard to marital resources (not just money). She worse than abandoned you emotionally when the real estate market crashed. 

Scorecard:
Companionship: C-
Sex: D+ (partly due to comments such as: ok, I have five minutes, do you want to have sex)
Sacrifice: D-

If someone doesn’t much enjoy your company and your touch and is clearly resentful when occasionally putting your needs first, that is not a life partner. It’s something else. 

The relationship was a vehicle for her to raise her children. And she correctly perceived you to be a good parent. Probably better than she was. Once the parenting was done, there was nothing left. 

Maybe in her mind, she tried to make you happy for three years. But I doubt a third party would give her high marks for effort. 

If I was you, I’d be WAY WAY WAY more angry at myself for allowing myself to remain in such a crap marriage for so long. 

And I’d be grateful to her for ending it. You were furious that she wasn’t willing to TRY via MC. Wake up. After she reeled you in at the beginning, from what you describe she never really put much effort into the marriage. Why would she try once the kids were grown. 



Ynot said:


> That is great, but our situations are a tad bit different. I don't disagree that the past is the past, but in your case you were mentally preparing for your split. In my world I was largely blind sided but the whole thing. I was totally and utterly unprepared for it. Your world change and you could look at it and think "at least this was MY choice". Instead I was like "WTF just happened, where the F am I at and how did I even get here!" So many changes, all imposed on me without my consent or choice.


----------



## Ynot

MEM2020 said:


> Ynot,
> You describe a marriage where your wife didn’t spend much time with you, allowed very little and mainly vanilla sex and was very selfish with regard to marital resources (not just money). She worse than abandoned you emotionally when the real estate market crashed.
> 
> Scorecard:
> Companionship: C-
> Sex: D+ (partly due to comments such as: ok, I have five minutes, do you want to have sex)
> Sacrifice: D-
> 
> If someone doesn’t much enjoy your company and your touch and is clearly resentful when occasionally putting your needs first, that is not a life partner. It’s something else.
> 
> The relationship was a vehicle for her to raise her children. And she correctly perceived you to be a good parent. Probably better than she was. Once the parenting was done, there was nothing left.
> 
> Maybe in her mind, she tried to make you happy for three years. But I doubt a third party would give her high marks for effort.
> 
> If I was you, I’d be WAY WAY WAY more angry at myself for allowing myself to remain in such a crap marriage for so long.
> 
> And I’d be grateful to her for ending it. You were furious that she wasn’t willing to TRY via MC. Wake up. After she reeled you in at the beginning, from what you describe she never really put much effort into the marriage. Why would she try once the kids were grown.


You are definitely on target with your analysis.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Ynot said:


> To all who have responded or read this thread. In no way shape or form am I trying to be adversarial or argumentative. I am raising my points not out of anger or resistance but out of trying to gain an understanding. I want nothing more than to stamp out this last glowing coal of my past. But I know it is still there. My life really is so much better than it was before and I really am so much better without her in my life. But this is an event so rare but so well known as coming up, that it is playing on my mind. I go for weeks, simply living my life. But this, I know, is coming up. So it is rekindled.


I still have to deal with my ex on usually a weekly basis, if not more, due to the kids still being young. Sometimes I think I would be better off if I could have had complete no contact for years, but when I hear your story, and how you are getting worked up about having to spend some time around your ex, I realize it's not a matter of one being better than the other. They are just different. I still have that core of deep anger, that I don't think will ever fade, so by some definitions, I won't ever forgive. But I've accepted that my ex did something truly evil, and that I never truly knew the person I married. Having my stable life turned upside-down in a moment by my ex's utter selfishness and cruelty has changed me. That anger flares up every time we have to interact. But I can do the events that have to be in person with a neutral expression on my face and a businesslike tone in my voice. I know because I have to do them on a regular basis.

So you can too. The anger may always be there. You can choose not to express it. You can also choose not to let it interfere with your enjoyment of events. The anger serves a protective purpose; it keeps you on your toes around your ex, keeps you skeptical instead of naive when meeting new people, and reminds you that you have value and that people should not be treated as you were. That anger is my sword, ready to defend me, ready to help me stick up for myself. That anger has actually made me a better person: a more moral example to my children, a more thoughtful friend, and a more vigorous defender of the wronged.

Your current dread of the event right now is worse than the event itself will be.


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## MEM2020

The last bit of my analysis is this: The two people in the world who know you best - your children - totally love you. I get the sense they FAR prefer you to their mom. 

You are a good guy Ynot. 2008 wasn’t your fault. Y2 should have helped you financially and emotionally when that happened. Instead she rained criticism and negative energy down on you. You busted your ass to support her and her son from a prior relationship for all those years, when the market imploded did she focus hard on making as much money as she could? Hell no. 

The final line item in my analysis is this: You are a good person and deserve a FAR FAR better partner than Y2 is capable of being...




Ynot said:


> You are definitely on target with your analysis.


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## Marc878

Knowing your past threads you didn't lose much. Maybe some reflection on that.

Why keep yourself in this? That's all you're doing.

She freed you in a way. Accept that freedom. I don't think you realize what you never had.

Way past time you went your own way. You are giving her too much head space. Why?


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## Ynot

Marc878 said:


> Knowing your past threads you didn't lose much. Maybe some reflection on that.
> 
> Why keep yourself in this? That's all you're doing.
> 
> She freed you in a way. Accept that freedom. I don't think you realize what you never had.
> 
> Way past time you went your own way. You are giving her too much head space. Why?


999 days out a 1000 she isn't in my mind at all. But today I know I will see her again. I appreciate all of the input from everybody. I am leaving soon. I have a 2 1/2 hour drive to get to the party. I have no intention of attacking her, starting a confrontation or engaging her in any manner. My intention is to just go and enjoy everyone else, while ignoring her as much as possible. What she did and how she did it are not okay with me. I have too much self respect to pretend as if everything is okay between us. So wish me well. I will report in later.


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## OnTheFly

Balls of steel and chin of iron, you got this.


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## Cooper

I dislike anyone who causes pain in my life, and yes my ex falls into that category. I don't believe in all the forget and forgive crap, here's how I look at it. If someone kicks a dog and the next day that dog growls or hides from that person you're going to say "what the hell do you expect, you kicked the dog and it remembers" . Why do we expect people to act differently? If you metaphorically (or literally) kick the **** out of my life I am not going to like you, and I'm not going to forget the pain you caused. 

Ynot I think all you can do is be civil and tolerate her presence, don't fake being happy to see her, screw that. Enjoy the love of your family and try to forget the ex is there.


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## Marc878

Don't kick yourself in the nuts over this. It hurts too much !!!!


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## Cynthia

Forgiveness isn't a feeling. It's a choice. We can choose to forgive and let it go. When/if it rears back up, we forgive again and do not let it control us. The problem with not forgiving is that it turns to bitterness and has a negative impact on us as people.

Forgiving is much easier than you might think. You decide that you are not going to hang onto anger, bitterness, or feelings and thoughts of revenge. You say, "I forgive so and so for (name particular thing). I let it go." Decide to move forward in peace. When the anger or other negative feelings begin to come back up, do not hang onto them. Do not let them have a place in your mind. Notice them. Do not nurture them. Let them pass through.

From what you've written, it appears that a lot of the trouble you are having is that you don't have closure. You never told her that her behavior was out of line and that you didn't realize what a mean, conniving person she was until she left you and went for your jugular while you were still trying to understand what on earth was going on. She caught you off guard and basically sucker punched you when you thought that she was on your side, so you didn't fight back like you would have if you had understood what was going on. Now you have never had the opportunity to let her have it with the full force of your anger and you know that this upcoming event is not the time or place for it.

The time for talking to her about this or letting her have the full force of your anger has passed. You are now in a position where the only reasonable way to deal with this is to let it go; forgive her. Not from any sense that she deserves it, but because you deserve to be free of this negativity in your life. Like others said, hanging onto the anger allows her to have some control in your life still. That's last thing you want is for her to occupy any space whatsoever in your life. That is what forgiveness is about. It is about accepting what happened. Not allowing it or saying it's okay, but saying it's not okay. That what she did was wrong. Forgiveness is only necessary when what someone did was not okay.

Forgiveness isn't saying that it's okay or that what she did was okay. It is saying that it was not okay, that it was wrong and hurtful, but you are not going to hold onto it any longer. You accept that it happened. How can you not accept that it happened? It's a fact. It happened. It hurt. Now let go of any thoughts of trying to get back at her or making her see how horrid she was. Don't allow her to matter any longer.

Again, this is not an emotional thing. It's not something that you have to feel like doing. It is an act of your will. You decide that you've had enough of this and you are letting it go and moving on with your life. It is over. It is in the past. You are no longer going to allow it to have any control in your life.

When you see her, you don't have to acknowledge her or speak to her or have anything to do with her. Forgiveness isn't reconciliation or friendship. You are not required to interact with her at all. She doesn't matter to you anymore.


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## Ynot

Thank you all for the advise. So here is what happened. Basically I looked at the whole thing as just facing another fear. I went to the party. I walked into the room. She was standing near the entrance to the room with her BF. I walked by, and acted as if I didn't see her there at all. I took my gift to the table, where my step son and his wife were preparing things and was handed by grandson. Soon enough my son and DIL, daughter and SIL were around me along with my DIL parents. I was greeted warmly by all and spent a few moments talking to everyone. Then my daughter and SIL showed me all the pics they had taken in Canada. I went and got a drink and sat with them. On the table was a purse. Everyone got in line to eat. When I sat back down, my ex walked past and grabbed the purse and sat at the next table. Later as I was leaving I ran into my ex in the hall. She looked at me, with the deer in the head lights look. I merely said "bye" as I headed out the door.
In short I stayed calm, cool and collected.


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## Marc878

Good job. You did fine


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## Not

Ynot, her treating you so badly was a choice she made, not because she truly felt you deserved it or that you really were a sub par human being but because it was what she had to do to feel alright about herself. I believe people act like this because they know deep down in their bones they are wrong and will do anything, concoct any scenario in their heads, in order to smother that feeling of being wrong. And I believe their behavior will be a direct reflection of just how wrong they feel deep down. The worse the behavior the stronger their inner gut feeling that they are wrong. 

Everything she did was a reaction to her own feelings and had nothing to do with you. She was never showing you that you were the dirt on the bottom of her shoe, she was showing you that that’s how she felt about what she was doing to you. She felt like dirt and couldn’t handle it so she transferred that feeling onto you.

Should you be angry at someone for the behavior? Yep, but also realize it was never about you.


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## Not

I just went through something similar with someone at work. I’ve been “training” under her for 18 months except very little training was happening. She was purposely and constantly coming up with excuses as to why. She was either to busy or to mad at me. Some days I would come into work and she’d be so mad she wouldn’t talk to me. I was constantly baffled as to why. Working with her has been, by far, one of the worst work experiences I’ve ever had. 

I was constantly being blamed for things being misplaced that would later magically appear on my desk. I could never do anything right. She constantly tried to belittle me in front of others. The message? As her protege I could not and never would measure up to her. No one and I mean no one would ever do as good a job in that position than she did and she did everything in her power to make sure that others would see it that way too. The only way she could get others to see her in that favorable light was to constantly tear me down. 

She retired a little over two weeks ago. On her last day she lost it saying she didn’t want to leave, she cried and sobbed for most of the day. It was painful to observe, for everyone present. It stunned us all but explained so much for me. In her mind I took something that meant so much to her and she hated me for it and showed me that with our every interaction for months. 

I was angry at several points in time but because I knew none of what she was accusing me of was true I knew there had to be more to the story. Now that she’s gone I feel mostly pity for her, it really is very sad that she had to treat me that way for things that were going on in her own life.


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## Marc878

Never the less be glad she's gone.


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## Not

Marc878 said:


> Never the less be glad she's gone.


The absence of her presence has been a huge relief and makes my job now a downright pleasure to go to everyday.


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## Curse of Millhaven

Yay! I’m glad it’s over and that you kept your composure, dignity, and cool. Well done!

I was rooting for you (if silently) and am proud of you. I wanted to chime in before you went but I’m not much of an advice giver or taker and handle things in my life with craptacular extemporaneous instinct and just do what I do. So I left the advice to the TAMily experts here.

But! I think you handled a very uncomfortable (to say the least) situation with aplomb. I was hoping it would turn out as it did, where you could just focus on your grandbaby, your family, and those that matter because your ex doesn’t anymore. By her choice.

I know it’s hard, but she needs to remain not only physically in your past but also in your mind’s dusty library of historic annals that happened, were recorded, but are now rarely touched or remembered. The past is dead. Your present is brimming with life and possibility and better things await you in the future. Of that I am sure.

Anger is a (im)potent drug. Believe me I know its sway. I find when I am angry at a person over past pain they’ve inflicted on me, it’s usually a masochistic helpless kind of rage where I want them to feel and truly understand the injustice of what they did to me and they never will, because let’s face it, if they were capable of hurting someone to that level they are probably also incapable of empathy, accepting responsibility, and true remorse. So ultimately the only thing my anger does is hurt me in their stead. **** that! 

So I more or less just leave that person and the anger where they belong…in my past. They don’t deserve my anger or anything else from me anymore. I don’t forget or forgive really, because even when I do it’s mostly a selfish forgiveness so I basically won’t have to think about the ****er anymore. And that’s not really forgiveness. I reserve that for those who truly deserve it, not for those who willfully hurt me.

In situations like this letting go of anger is not tantamount to acceptance of what they did, it’s an act of defiance and resistance. Give them nothing (including thoughts, emotions, or the satisfaction) and live your best life as revenge. Vive la résistance!

Anyway! I’m glad it all went smoothly and you made it through unscathed, focused on what mattered, and maintained your composure. I wish you luck in overcoming your anger for good (for you) and for your continued healing. You got this.


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