# What would be your response to this letter?



## Martian (May 17, 2012)

> Because there doesn't seem to be a way to hold a conversation without it getting to a point where I seem to frustrate you to the point of tears or silence, I thought I would try this way to communicate my thoughts and feelings.
> 
> In my opinion, our marriage is in very bad shape. I don't for a second think that I am blame free in this. The tension and hostility in our house is palpable. Our resentment towards each other does not go unseen by our children. Our current situation is not their fault, buy they are caught in the line of fire which is not fair to them.
> 
> ...


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Background: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/46466-no-affection-so-lonely-advice.html

Extra background: I wrote the letter because every attempt at talking leads to either frustration, tears, silence or some combination of the 3. My idea was that a letter would get my thoughts and feelings out clearly, concisely and without emotion getting in the way (on either end).

I'm curious as to what other peoples' thoughts are on the letter and how you may react to the letter/situation.


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## Time4Joy (Dec 13, 2012)

I would put some measurable objectives in it and a place for her to sign. Then I would leave it with the divorce papers, filled out and waiting for her signature. She can sign one set or the other.

I was stupid and wasted 20 years of my life living in a hell that I'd helped create with a woman who was the master architect. I thought things might change. I thought I could change things. I thought I could fix things. 

If there'd been a TAM after first 5 years when things started going bad, I'd have had a different and better life. Oh well, that was my yesterday. Don't let it be your tomorrow.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I would love the open communication and concern my wife would be showing me. I would have a very heartfelt response but I am not your spouse.

Your wife knows the situation and is unable or unwilling to do anything.

It is hard but you should pull the trigger and divorce her. In a functioning marriage, both people need to work on themselves and their part in the marriage. You seem to be making all the effort while she is doing nothing?

Unless you want to continue to exist as a sort of roommate or caretaker for the rest of your days, you need to put some action in place.

You seem like a thoughtful and caring husband and father.
I am very sorry you are going through this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's about the weakest "I'm unhappy" letter I've ever seen. Too long. Overly sappy. And she won't read it. 

Wanna know what she WILL read?

"I want a divorce. I'll let you know when my lawyer has the papers ready."

THEN - MAYBE - she'll notice that you're actually even in the same room.

Did you ever make her get a job? Good place to start - turn off the cable and the internet. Your kids don't need it and you don't need it. If she wants it she can get a job and pay for it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Time4Joy said:


> I would put some *measurable objectives* in it and a place for her to sign. Then I would leave it with the divorce papers, filled out and waiting for her signature. She can sign one set or the other.


I agree.

OP, it has been almost 2-1/2 *years* since you wrote your other post, and presumably things are as bad or worse than they were then.

How many more years are you going to let slip by?

It's not enough to get a vague response from her that she wants to "try harder." That ship has sailed. No, she needs to reply with measurable objectives such as agreeing to counseling and a sex therapist, weekly sex, a definable plan to be affectionate and make you feel loved, etc. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels.

Like T4J said... give her both sets of documents (letter as well as divorce papers). Let her pick.


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## Martian (May 17, 2012)

As any FYI, this letter was given over the weekend. The next day I got the silent treatment for almost half the day until I mentioned it and asked her what she thought.

I was told that all I think about is sex and that it's always about sex with me.

Later, after not really getting anywhere from talking due to her getting upset, crying and then shutting off, I walked upstairs.

I found the letter crumpled up and thrown away in the master bathroom trashcan.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good. Letters like that are harmful to marriages. 

NOW, are you ready to actually DO something about your marriage?


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## Martian (May 17, 2012)

Can you help me understand why it would be harmful to a marriage to give a letter like that? When verbal communication breaks down, why wouldn't a letter be a good next choice?


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

I think your focus is on the wrong things. It's all about the marriage dynamic and not about the YOU dynamic. You can't control her, how she feels, if she wants to have sex. This site is loaded with great feedback on how to become the best man possible. The type of man you are.....now that you can control. AND, if you are writing letters like that, well......you aren't getting any sexy time any time soon. 

The way I look at is is to spend 3-6 months working on you to become happy, sexy, and confident. Then, if she isn't adjusting, lay down the law. She can either go to marriage counseling with you (and do the homework actively with a good attitude), or she can sign the divorce papers you put in front of her. Her choice.

Seriously, you are half the problem.


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## Dedicated2Her (Nov 13, 2010)

Martian said:


> Can you help me understand why it would be harmful to a marriage to give a letter like that? When verbal communication breaks down, why wouldn't a letter be a good next choice?


Because it makes you look pathetic or unmasculine which undermines respect and attraction.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Get the book No More Mr Nice Guy. Read it. And then come back and tell us if you've figured out why the letter was a bad idea.


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## Martian (May 17, 2012)

Okay awesome. Thanks for the feedback - I will take a look at the book straight away.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Martian said:


> Okay awesome. Thanks for the feedback - I will take a look at the book straight away.


Along with that book get "Married Mans Sex Life Primer"
Then start setting up appointments with a few lawyers to know what you may be facing in the future.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The letter was terrible and no surprise that she reacted that way.
You are giving her 100% of the blame and asking her to be 100% of the solution.

Just because you can verbalize her needs does not mean that she can verbalize her needs. Marriage is not so simple where you get to tell your wife "just tell me how to make you happy" where she gives you a roadmap and you execute it.

Yes, you are not getting sex from her because she is not getting her needs by you. The solution to this problem is for you to figure out what her needs are and start meeting them without doing any of the following:
- Asking her what her needs are
- Making her feel inadequate
- Talking in depth about the relationship.
- Sending long emails or probably any emails.
- Expressing disatisfaction in an emotional way.

What you do get to do:
- Try things to see what her reaction is (you did this with your note, bad reaction you learned that this is not the way).
- If something works, in that her emotinal response that you observe is postive, keep doing it. If something does not work, don't do it any more.
- Schedule fun activities with your wife
- Be a good father
- Stand up for yourself if she criticizes you or mistreats you
- Let her understand that you are 100% certain that you are going to build a functioning and happy marriage and family, and she is your first choice as a wife in this equation but you do not view her as your only choice in this equation.


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## Martian (May 17, 2012)

From the book:



> Breaking Free Activity #5
> If you did not care what people thought of you, how would you live your life differently?
> If you were not concerned with getting the approval of women, how would your relationships with the opposite sex be different?


Talk about a H*** S*** moment...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

The longer you wait to divorce her, the older the kids will be and the more complex your financial situation will become. So then you will have more excuses to postpone divorce. Honestly it sounds like you have been very unhappy for a very long time. Is this the way you want to live the rest of your life?

I like the 6 month plan for you. Read NMMNG and maybe a few other books too. Try to make yourself a better man for your own sake. Try to lead the family to a better place. In 6 months see if your wife is going to be a positive, functional, contributing asset to your life or not. If not, pull the plug while it is easier than it will be later.

You don't do children any favors by staying in an unhappy and dysfunctional marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Martian said:


> From the book:
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about a H*** S*** moment...


Exactly.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hicks said:


> - Let her understand that you are 100% certain that you are going to build a functioning and happy marriage and family, and she is your first choice as a wife in this equation but you do not view her as your only choice in this equation.


This is SO VERY important, and so many people get it wrong. There is no place for unconditional love in a marriage.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

turnera said:


> This is SO VERY important, and so many people get it wrong. There is no place for unconditional love in a marriage.


VERY easy to get wrong with all the "happily ever after-Disney-BS" thats constantly being thrown at us.


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## Martian (May 17, 2012)

> Alan had made his wife his emotional center. His life revolved around trying to please her and make her happy. Due to his ineffective covert contracts, Alan never believed Marie gave as much to him as he gave to her. As a result, he was often resentful and passive-aggressive.


Covert contracts...
Passive-aggressive...
Always trying to please her...

Guilty. As. Charged. :banghead:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Bottom line is that actions speak louder than words. This letter was just more talk. Until you're actually ready to do something, nothing will change. And of course she knows it. She knows you never back up the talk. You've proven that much at least.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's funny, we push that book SO much, but we can spot people who need it a mile away. And when they start reading it, they always come back just like you with the handslap to the forehead. lol

Good knowledge, no?


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## Martian (May 17, 2012)

I'm a little over halfway through it and I have found so much that applies to me that it's ridiculous, and I'm not afraid to admit it.

These things will be changing.

Thank you!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Be sure to check in on the support forums at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

Martian said:


> As any FYI, this letter was given over the weekend. The next day I got the silent treatment for almost half the day until I mentioned it and asked her what she thought.
> 
> I was told that all I think about is sex and that it's always about sex with me.
> 
> ...


sex 3-4 times a year = "its all about sex with you"
good god you are fighting a losing battle...im very sorry your here


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

turnera said:


> This is SO VERY important, and so many people get it wrong. *There is no place for unconditional love in a marriage*.


brilliant
this should be a sticky


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