# Open Wounds and NO Resolve



## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

For anyone who has not followed my other post. My husband is having an EA. And because our conversation always turn into a verbal boxing match nothing really gets said or heard. My response to all this was...I will write it down, then you can see what I'm trying to say. He agreed, he wanted to read what I had to say. He proceeded by buying me a journal. These are my exact words I wrote to him. This could get long...

It would befitting to start off the New Year with a positive note. Sooo...A year or two ago, actually 09 I met a married couple who were artists. I found them while searching for inspiration on a piece I was trying to create. they were involved in an Artist Gallery/Forum online.They had some great pieces and we struck up conversation about them.... We corresponded for bout 2 months when one day I sensed an underground current of something not right. To cut to the chase. It appears that another member of that site, whom the couple new personally, tried to wedge her way into this couples life by advances toward the gentleman. I have to commend him for NOT falling pray to this woman who was out to destroy his marriage. It was refreshing..a rarity in today's society. Because you see, this couple and I have the same view towards marriage...and that is.

There are two ...who come to the center of this core, and surrounding this core is a magnificent wall. Within that wall there's love...much nurturing..bonding....respect and trust. From this center core you go beyond to explore and learn. YET ALWAYS AWARE of that center core...this heart, is only RESERVED for the other. And if this bond is broken. The walls will erode...crumble, then fall...

I don't know! I look around and what I see, feel, sense and hear troubles me. My walls are not as they should be. there's erosion and large holes. that's an indication of an intrusion. A manipulating, controlling factor that seeks to place itself permanently in my core...a surrogate replacement. Who let it in? Who opened the door? It wasn't me.I would never disrespect my marriage.

Something that seems innocent is NOT!

There's a disturbing sense in the air. It's been evolving for quite sometime, only to intensify over the past year...the gut tells me somethings not right..

I thought this year was going to start out positive...you know OPEN, HONEST, TRANSPARENT! But NO. There's those same old attachments wanting to interfere, control and manipulate. There are certain things I don't understand...and that is..When you are married and have "Friends of the Opposite Sex" those relationships take a back seat. There are certain things that are inappropriate and that DO NOT SUPPORT a marriage. It should be common knowledge that YOU do not open up emotionally to someone of the opposite sex when you are married. Your emotional needs are to be met by your spouse only! opening up to someone else allows them into that space that is RESERVED for your SPOUSE.

This is a scenario that is troubling....

What I really find disrespectful, with a host of many other things,is the constant texting and calling. This INSIDIOUS person text each morning like clock work. Doesn't matter what time...5am,6am...7!...? Of course they want to connect! Their reason for it is so YOU give them your UNDIVIDED ATTENTION! They SUCK all the Energy. And it gives them great pleasure to know they TRUMP your spouse. You know,it's like a big SLAP in the face every morning. Oh but that's not the end of the disrespect. Why would this person stop at just one. What are in these text? They speak of love, I miss you's,oxoxo...hugs and kisses, you are so wonderfuls. "A BUNCH OF VOMIT" When are you coming over....got crumpets....can you help me do something...whatever. Can yo do this? On and On and On everyday this goes on! What a WASTE of ENERGY and TIME!!!!! Any nit wit with half a brain can tell you that this is NOT a platonic friendship. It's something more. Even more HURTFUL is a SPOUSE who ENCOURAGES it! And you don't dare say to much about it...you'll be seen as stepping out of line..out of control. So you have concerns.what happens next? Well you know those boulders that held up that marriage wall? The ones that fell...because you the spouse (your wife)were trying to protect something sacred? You are now thought as the enemy of this friendship...so these boulders are used to protect the manipulating, controlling, narcissist sociopath from the spouse. They now get all the praise, the your so beautiful, hugs and kisses and so forth. Now it has become all deceptive and secretive.Don't talk about THEM! The places they meet, the time spent together, the phone calls the text...the EGO STROKING, hugs, cuddling,massaging......

I CANT IMAGINE doing this to my HUSBAND. NO BOUNDARIES very Disrespectful and I might add done BLATANTLY in my face.
Watching this so call friends treat each other like they are married.In fact that is what seems to be taking place. The tables turn. The friend takes on the spouses role and the spouse is now the friend. There are so many red flags to this relationship, One things for sure... It's NOT PLATONIC!!!!

It is INAPPROPRIATE for a MARRIED person to text & receive text and phone calls from someone of the opposite sex. Every hour on the hour...daily!!
For what? To monopolize your time and energy? No because there's more that's going on, something INTIMATE!
IT' is INAPPROPRIATE to, Synchronize your phone, calender and watch to this other person!
It is INAPPROPRIATE to run around shopping, meet up for lunch and not tell your spouse! "Hey darlin I saw you!"
Basically YOU shouldn't be doing anything with this person...WHY? Because you are MARRIED!!
The dynamics of this so called friendship will change NOW or you will lose a lot.And I'm not talking material things. Those mean NOTHING!
This Friend of yours is SO DISRESPECTFUL in so many ways. You are NOT to be discussing our marriage, finances, business, or items that belong to us with this TROLL! You've talked about these things with her and I've been informed.

YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE WORKING ON YOUR MARRIAGE! Which was our NEW YEARS RESOLUTION TO ONE ANOTHER!
NOT! nurturing some intimate friendship with this POACHER! YES! POACHER. She can't find anyone for herself so she poaches a married man.
That's what poachers do.

The way things seem to be heading, I don't expect much change. I beleive it will continue, Continue to tell this person everything,continue to text and call 24/7
continue to nurture this troll, continue to bow down and be at her beckon call.

It's just like distribution of wealth.You take what belongs to this person(emotional energy)and redistribute to someone who does not deserve it...the manipulator...the controller. This person disrespects our marriage as well as me.All this relationship does is break down the marriage And YOU are just as much to blame.You allowed it to happen!

So en-light of all the above.I am prepared to move on FOR MYSELF.I can NO LONGER live in a TOXIC ENVIRONMENT And YES I am a DOOR MAT to you as
indicated by your behavior with this person.

You are a sad man and you make me sad.

He read it and said he was glad he did.He said it was TRUE. And there is no way on earth are we splitting. There is to much to lose.
In response I demanded the dynamics of that friendship must stop. He agreed.

Heres the clinker. Hes shoved it under the rug as if it was nothing. No talking, only if I bring something up. When I get depressed, he says don't do that to yourself..let's do something fun.Okay, I get it, he's trying to take my mind off it.I realize it's been barely a week since he has read this.But don't you need to talk about it in order to RESOLVE it. This woman text and called him all super bowel weekend.I counted 8 in a row as we sat next to one another. He told me it was her because I asked. I told him he needed to have a discussion with her or I will. He said he would,but I doubt he has yet.

I personally don't think, he thinks, he's done anything wrong! or maybe ashamed. He is inherently shy. How do you resolve this? How do you get someone to open up? I still have open wounds and no resolve.
Was I not clear in my message? HELP!?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Ugh, reading this triggered me.  

I have no good advice to give, as I lost my husband to his EAP. You have been very clear. It seems he is rug sweeping, maybe mainly to keep you from hurting, but he needs to be willing to open up to you about it, and allow you to ask questions. 

Best of luck to you.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

Hi there!

I skimmed over the letter, and will read more in depth later if I can, but here are my initial feelings on what has happened:

1) Your letter starts off rather confusing (or rather it would be confusing to most MEN, I understood where you were trying to go with it) Men are more simple and straight forward in their communication, so trying to illustrate your situation in that way most likely confused him.

2) You get get more to the point towards the middle/end but you sound so angry it's hard to get to the core of what you're REALLY wanting here, and that is to be understood, right?

3) He put the letter away and hasn't said anything yet because it confused him. He feels a great responsibility to figure it out and won't say anything till he does. He probably won't be able to figure it out though, because it was written in the language of a woman, not a man, so I would suggest re-writing the letter. He is not trying to hurt you or ignore you.

What you gave him sounds like a first draft. It contained a lot of RAW emotions. That is a GREAT way for you to vent your emotions, but for the purpose of coming to an understanding on your feelings, I would approach the letter in a different way:

1) Be as to the point as you can get. No analogies or illustrative talk, no raw emotions. It makes things easier on him.

2) Focus on how things made you FEEL rather and the things he did secondary. This will help him focus on the core matter, which is how hurt you are. Say things like "It makes me feel ____ when you ____" 

3) Let him know of good things you feel about him as well. Like maybe "I love how strong you are, and I feel like you can conquer this problem with me" Saying a few positive things are things he can grab onto while trying to come to terms with the hurt feelings he's caused.

Good luck to you, and again I am so sorry for the awful situation you're in, and think you're a wonderful, brave woman for wanting to work past this EA with him.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Two possibilities:

1 - He told you what you wanted to hear, but still carries it on. "I'll talk to her"... right. That's EXACTLY what you need... him to stop contact by talking to her. No, how about blocking her number, sending a no-contact letter or you calling her and telling her it's over?

2 - He's "sweeping it under the rug" because you demanded that it stop and he's finished it (although she may not have), but you didn't make it clear that you wanted all the details. So he views your continued questioning as an inquisition and trying to beat him over the head with the EA.

I think you need to talk to him (or write to him) telling him that while you asked (demanded) that the EA end, you need him to open up so you can have some closure. Define that closure. Don't make it open-ended so he knows that it isn't a weekly/monthly/annual rehash of his mistakes.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> Ugh, reading this triggered me.
> 
> I have no good advice to give, as I lost my husband to his EAP. You have been very clear. It seems he is rug sweeping, maybe mainly to keep you from hurting, but he needs to be willing to open up to you about it, and allow you to ask questions.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


I thought that too, about not trying to hurt me. He does get teary eyed when he knows I'm depressed. It still is something that needs discussion.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Mrs. NotSureWhatToDo said:


> Hi there!
> 
> I skimmed over the letter, and will read more in depth later if I can, but here are my initial feelings on what has happened:
> 
> ...


Well he knew i wrote it when I was angry and yes it needs defining I'm generally not an angry person...I'm more even tempered. This has made me angry. Our normal behavior is kind and loving to one another. But being kind and loving wasn't getting any answer.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Chris Taylor said:


> Two possibilities:
> 
> 1 - He told you what you wanted to hear, but still carries it on. "I'll talk to her"... right. That's EXACTLY what you need... him to stop contact by talking to her. No, how about blocking her number, sending a no-contact letter or you calling her and telling her it's over?
> 
> ...


Your possibilities are both valid. I believe it's a little of #1 and #2 is a definite. This woman as I stated is A controller a sociopath, manipulator. I don't think she will let this go. I believe I'm the one who will have to contact her and end if for him. I want him to do it because he wants it to end. Not because I told him too. 

I'm not concerned about the particulars of the EA and I don't bombard him with question. I've learned to ask him politely who's calling or things concerning his day. All I'm really asking is how do we safe guard our self's from future threats. He hasn't responded


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> Well he knew i wrote it when I was angry and yes it needs defining I'm generally not an angry person...I'm more even tempered. This has made me angry. Our normal behavior is kind and loving to one another. But being kind and loving wasn't getting any answer.


You were fine to have those feelings and to want him to understand them. But you asked if the letter is confusingly written, and it is. If your intent is to make someone understand you (especially if the recipient is a man), your best bet is to say things as straightforward and succinctly as possible. 

Writing the note with extreme anger and defenses aside will make it much easier for him to "get it".Do not confuse that with being soft or overly loving, that's npt what I'm suggesting. Treat it as if men and women speak different languages. Your current letter is in the language of woman. You need to change it to the language of a man.

We could all help you re-write it, if that's what you choose to do  
And I understand how aggravating it is to not have the love of your life recognize the pain you see/feel so clearly. You just gotta help him see it.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Suggestions as to how to rewrite this are very much welcome and appreciated. I feel very inadequate as a wife and hurt by his actions. I still feel his distance even when we are together.


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## ComicBookLady (Feb 28, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> Suggestions as to how to rewrite this are very much welcome and appreciated. I feel very inadequate as a wife and hurt by his actions. I still feel his distance even when we are together.


You are NOT inadequate. His infidelities are his own problem. Please please do not let his bad actions reflect upon your self confidence! 

And I am so so sorry you're hurting right now. I can only imagine how difficult all of this is for you.  BIG HUG!

To help give suggestions on a re-write, can you list (as succinctly as possible) the things you most want to get across to him? What feelings do you want him to validate? What actions do you want him to take?

More importantly, are you SURE you are willing to work with him to move past the EA (if he is of course)? Do you think you can forgive him?


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

ComicBookLady said:


> You are NOT inadequate. His infidelities are his own problem. Please please do not let his bad actions reflect upon your self confidence!
> 
> And I am so so sorry you're hurting right now. I can only imagine how difficult all of this is for you.  BIG HUG!
> 
> ...


Thank you for the big hug. Much appreciated.

The main thing I want to get across to him is..what he did was NOT appropriate behavior for a married person. He thinks what he did wasn't wrong, because no sex was involved. But there was cuddling and kissing, along with massaging one another. That's a very fine line that one can easily slip across. It started by my husband allowing her to cry on his shoulder.She was losing her home and because we had lost our home to fire and she allowed us to park our rv in her driveway. so now he felt it was payback time and he was the only one equipped to help her..so he said. He spent excessive amounts of time with her taking her to the lawyers helping her with paper work and comforting her when she was depressed and crying. All that bonding time turned in to I love yous and I miss you text and phone calls. At the same time I had to deal with our home the majority of the time alone. I expressed i needed help too.
I don't mind helping people as long as we do it together,but I really wasn't included. I want him to understand I need him too. I do need him I love him very much. We just had our anniversary Sunday and again this woman text and calls numerous times.I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives? I want him to stop contact with this person. There is no reason for it any longer. She has her home secure now. she doesn't need his help any longer. If in case that is the real reason he stuck around so long. He still talks with her. He doesn't tell me. I want him to be open, transparent and honest. which he is maybe 65% of the time. He has to be 100% if he wants our marriage to work. I don't hide anything from him. I don't see why he should either. I've partially forgiven already because it's my nature. But not fully.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives?


She thinks she's entitled because he allows her to do it. When he puts a stop to it, it will stop.

The buck stops with your husband. Until he acknowledges this relationship is inappropriate for a married man to have, you'll continue to fight with him over her.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

I'm afraid your wasting your own emotional energy trying to convince him logically that EA is wrong. 

IMO, it's time to draw a line in the sand. If it was me I would give an ultimatum. If H wants you and the marriage, he has to go NC and he has to be a big boy and not depend on you to do it for him. (Not a bad idea to have a witness to make sure he is clear about NC through- do you have any male relatives or friends who could be in the room while he makes a phone call to OW?)

What Are Plan A and Plan B?


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

I'm confused. In your letter you mention cuddles, massage and hugs. This would be a PA for me. You should really read up in the copping with infidelity section. Even if it is an EA. There is a lot of work your husband needs to do. Starting with a NC letter that you read before it gets sent. You should read up on what the fog is. That is what your husband is most likely in. She texted him 8 times during the super bowel. Did your husband respond? If so what did he say.He should be an open book to you right now to earn back your trust. You should have access to all text messages, emails, ect. Being in contact in any way with this toxic woman will hinder the healing of your marriage. Block her number on his phone. I know I'm rambling but please read the coping with infidelity section.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> Thank you for the big hug. Much appreciated.
> 
> The main thing I want to get across to him is..what he did was NOT appropriate behavior for a married person.
> 
> ...


Writing a letter is not going to change a thing. Neither will talking. He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. His IQ would have to be around 15 points not to.

Put a stop to it in very simple terms he can comply with. "If she contacts you even one more time after today, we are going to separate. I don't care how you do it... change your number and delete your social accounts if necessary, or leave now, but I am not going to tolerate another woman's presence in my marriage."


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> Thank you for the big hug. Much appreciated.
> 
> The main thing I want to get across to him is..what he did was NOT appropriate behavior for a married person. He thinks what he did wasn't wrong, because no sex was involved. But there was cuddling and kissing, along with massaging one another. That's a very fine line that one can easily slip across. It started by my husband allowing her to cry on his shoulder.She was losing her home and because we had lost our home to fire and she allowed us to park our rv in her driveway. so now he felt it was payback time and he was the only one equipped to help her..so he said. He spent excessive amounts of time with her taking her to the lawyers helping her with paper work and comforting her when she was depressed and crying. All that bonding time turned in to I love yous and I miss you text and phone calls. At the same time I had to deal with our home the majority of the time alone. I expressed i needed help too.
> I don't mind helping people as long as we do it together,but I really wasn't included. I want him to understand I need him too. I do need him I love him very much. We just had our anniversary Sunday and again this woman text and calls numerous times.I want to know why she calls and when will it stop? I don't know why my husband thinks this woman is entitled to do this. So I want to know why this person is entitled to call and text and to know everything that is going on in our lives? I want him to stop contact with this person. There is no reason for it any longer. She has her home secure now. she doesn't need his help any longer. If in case that is the real reason he stuck around so long. He still talks with her. He doesn't tell me. I want him to be open, transparent and honest. which he is maybe 65% of the time. He has to be 100% if he wants our marriage to work. I don't hide anything from him. I don't see why he should either. I've partially forgiven already because it's my nature. But not fully.


I agree with the Comic, from a man's point of view the first version was way to wordy. On average we are much simpler creatures, you have to get to the bottom line. The version here does exactly that, I recommend taking out the last sentence and send to him. Even a dumb old country boy like me can understand your meaning. Don't settle for less than you deserve.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

I agree. No one in our family knows of this issue and I it should be between us only. However my mother in-law suspects something concerning this woman. This woman has called numerous times when we have been at the in-laws and my mother in-law doesn't like it. She would be the first person that would head on over and punch this woman out, then her son if need be.

So no I would want to witness this myself.


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## Tomlongisland (Feb 4, 2013)

I think it was great you wrote the letter and confronted the situatioin. I had a similar problem with my wife. Emails several times a day to him. I confronted her and said it had to stop. The contact had to be cut completely or the marriage was over. It didnt' matter if it were a physcial or an emotional affair. To me both would kill our marrige it didn't end. We sat down and composed a letter to the guy she was talking with saying that both my wife and i agreed this kind of contact between married people was destructive and the contact would end. My wife claimed it was all innocent. I said fine if it is let's see if his wife knows. I called her and of course she didn't know. That helped to kill it. However, we did go to counseling. Lets face it I was not meeting her emotional needs, nor her mine so we had to work it out. It does take time and trust has to be built over time. You need to work on it. Also complete transparency. You both should have access to each others phone or emails with out a single complaint.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> I'm confused. In your letter you mention cuddles, massage and hugs. This would be a PA for me. You should really read up in the copping with infidelity section. Even if it is an EA. There is a lot of work your husband needs to do. Starting with a NC letter that you read before it gets sent. You should read up on what the fog is. That is what your husband is most likely in. She texted him 8 times during the super bowel. Did your husband respond? If so what did he say.He should be an open book to you right now to earn back your trust. You should have access to all text messages, emails, ect. Being in contact in any way with this toxic woman will hinder the healing of your marriage. Block her number on his phone. I know I'm rambling but please read the coping with infidelity section.


I agree with you 100% about the PA. But in his mind...No intercourse No Affair. 

No,he did not respond to her at all Super Bowl weekend. He ignored all calls as he always does when I'm around. When I'm not around I cant say...

I will look everything up you suggested.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Writing a letter is not going to change a thing. Neither will talking. He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. His IQ would have to be around 15 points not to.
> 
> Put a stop to it in very simple terms he can comply with. "If she contacts you even one more time after today, we are going to separate. I don't care how you do it... change your number and delete your social accounts if necessary, or leave now, but I am not going to tolerate another woman's presence in my marriage."


The letter writing only came about because I would get emotional when trying to express myself. I thought maybe he would understand it better in written form. Guess not!

I'm finding my only recourse may be to try your suggestion.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

VFW said:


> I agree with the Comic, from a man's point of view the first version was way to wordy. On average we are much simpler creatures, you have to get to the bottom line. The version here does exactly that, I recommend taking out the last sentence and send to him. Even a dumb old country boy like me can understand your meaning. Don't settle for less than you deserve.


As a man, would you prefer a written letter. Something simple like the post you responded too or a verbal ultimatum?

Your advice would be greatly appreciated!!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> No,he did not respond to her at all Super Bowl weekend. He ignored all calls as he always does when I'm around. When I'm not around I cant say...


How long would you (or people you know) continue calling and texting a person who doesn't respond ever?


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> How long would you (or people you know) continue calling and texting a person who doesn't respond ever?


For myself and anyone I know, would stop immediately. in fact I wouldn't bother anyone to this degree ever. I would call once and that would be it. But this woman is obsessed, has no respect or morals. If he didn't answer her for a week. She would still continue to call and text 6,10,20 times a day till he gave in an answered. Shes pathetic...


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> For myself and anyone I know, would stop immediately. in fact I wouldn't bother anyone to this degree ever. I would call once and that would be it. But this woman is obsessed, has no respect or morals. If he didn't answer her for a week. She would still continue to call and text 6,10,20 times a day till he gave in an answered. Shes pathetic...


In that case, tell him to call the police. I heard the same kinds of things about the "crazy" women who were "obsessed" with my first husband. They weren't... he was just telling them I was crazy.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Writing a letter is not going to change a thing. Neither will talking. He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong. His IQ would have to be around 15 points not to.
> 
> Put a stop to it in very simple terms he can comply with. "If she contacts you even one more time after today, we are going to separate. I don't care how you do it... change your number and delete your social accounts if necessary, or leave now, but I am not going to tolerate another woman's presence in my marriage."


THIS! This right here is what you are going to need to do, and you are going to have to be willing to back those words up! Like so many on this forum have said before, you are going to have to be willing to lose this relationship in order to save it! Your husband knows EXACTLY what he is doing, and doesnt give a sh!t what you think about it at this point. ANGRY YET?? If you're not, then you better get that way, because you will not be nicing your way out of this!


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

He can block her number. I'm glad you are going to read up in the coping with infidelity section. It will really open your eyes to what you are dealing with and what needs to be done. Good luck to you I can only imagine your pain. I hope it lessons in time.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> I agree with you 100% about the PA. But in his mind...No intercourse No Affair.
> 
> No,he did not respond to her at all Super Bowl weekend. He ignored all calls as he always does when I'm around. When I'm not around I cant say...
> 
> I will look everything up you suggested.


Me, I would rather do it face to face, but that is me. You can't ask questions of a letter. The trick is you being able to control your emotions, look him right dead in the eye and tell him what you mean. Some folks get too emotional in this situation, so a letter serves them better, but I would prefer face to face.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Everyone has given great advice and I took a little of each and confronted him face to face with this issue. I did this yesterday morning. He understood very well what I was saying and said he did not want to lose me or his family. That was something that never crossed his mind.....walking away for someone else. That evening he told me he ended the relationship with her. He talked with her that very same day after our discussion. He didn't tell me he was going to do it, he just did it. I commend him for doing that if in actuality he did. My intuition is telling me...he may have ended the intimate portion of the relationship,while still trying to hang on as a friend. And the reason I think that is, she has the documentation to his truck(pink slip, registration documents) because she wants his truck!! Why does she want his truck? She allowed him to store the truck at her home while we were displaced during the fire, that took place at our home...
This is something I didn't mention in my post earlier. In fact I forgot about it until now. The light went on while trying to figure out my gut feelings. If my intuition is right. This isn't going to work! This idea of still having contact while figuring out this truck scenario. I haven't discussed this with him yet. But it must be done.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

LanieB said:


> I agree with 3Xnocharm. Get mad! YOUR HUSBAND IS HAVING AN AFFAIR! Your husband may not be replying to OW's calls or texts in your presence, but he is obviously still in contact with her when you're not around. You know he's already kissed and touched her - which means they've probably had sex - many times. And even if they haven't, it's still an affair. He's telling you what you want to hear so you'll back off. The only possible chance you have of getting him to end the A is to show him you're serious. Kick him out, file for divorce, do SOMETHING to show him how serious you are.
> 
> Also, as you will definitely read in the Coping With Infidelity section here on TAM, you must expose this affair to everyone. His mother suspects something? Then tell her - confirm it for her. Tell the rest of his family and friends. Your H already knows how hurt you are by his A, and he obviously doesn't care. Your feelings aren't enough to make him end it obviously. But hearing from others that what he's doing is wrong might cause him to snap out of his Affair Fog.
> 
> ...


We did have a break through, although I'm still not convinced he made his position clear to this woman. She's controlling and manipulative. I too want to know how far and deep this relationship has gone. He's not really saying. Maybe to save my feelings..But When I woke this morning I felt they will be in contact and my feeling is she is not going to let this rest. Since you have had experience, as well as anyone else that would like to answer, What VAR is good....recommendations or any other device that's helpful. I asked in another post about cell spyware and got some great suggestions. Have you used any of those items? 

I'm just not convinced of the action he took. I want to believe him.
This is really killing me. I want to trust again.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

t2morgan said:


> We did have a break through, although I'm still not convinced he made his position clear to this woman. She's controlling and manipulative. I too want to know how far and deep this relationship has gone. He's not really saying. Maybe to save my feelings..But When I woke this morning I felt they will be in contact and my feeling is she is not going to let this rest. Since you have had experience, as well as anyone else that would like to answer, What VAR is good....recommendations or any other device that's helpful. I asked in another post about cell spyware and got some great suggestions. Have you used any of those items?
> 
> I'm just not convinced of the action he took. I want to believe him.
> This is really killing me. I want to trust again.


While I am very glad for you that you confronted him about this, I have serious doubts like you do, that he didnt really project to this woman about it being over. After all, he did not do it in your presence or in a way that you were able to see what was going on. I remember my ex bf did this to me, he told me that he told his EAP that they couldnt talk any more, like I had asked, and it turned out to be complete bullsh!t. They continued their contact, just went further underground with it.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> While I am very glad for you that you confronted him about this, I have serious doubts like you do, that he didnt really project to this woman about it being over. After all, he did not do it in your presence or in a way that you were able to see what was going on. I remember my ex bf did this to me, he told me that he told his EAP that they couldnt talk any more, like I had asked, and it turned out to be complete bullsh!t. They continued their contact, just went further underground with it.


This is usually the case, which is why doing it in front of you is super vital to all of this crap ending.

OP your gut is turning for a good reason.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Here is where you need to apply the Ronald Reagan principle...trust, but verify. His life needs to be an open book, this includes all media devices. He also needs to be told point blank and violation of this and we are finished, this is your last warning. This is not a threat, but a clarification of where we stand. Lets hope he is smart enough to not test you on this matter.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Now you're on track t2. Trust your gut. He probably just went underground. Other than the truck thing is there any reason for him to have contact with her? Ask him how he plans to get his paperwork back if he has no contact. No contact means exactly that. It doesn't mean remaining friends. I wouldn't trust then verify. He's already broken your trust. He needs to deal with earning it back, even if it's hard. I think the VAR is a very good idea. Have you checked his phone and read his text messages? Ask him to hand it to you. If he has nothing to hide he won't mind. Check to see texts weren't deleted. When he gave emotional intimacy along with physical intimacy to another woman he lost his privacy right. He needs to do some heavy lifting in the marriage right now.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> Now you're on track t2. Trust your gut. He probably just went underground. Other than the truck thing is there any reason for him to have contact with her? Ask him how he plans to get his paperwork back if he has no contact. No contact means exactly that. It doesn't mean remaining friends. I wouldn't trust then verify. He's already broken your trust. He needs to deal with earning it back, even if it's hard. I think the VAR is a very good idea. Have you checked his phone and read his text messages? Ask him to hand it to you. If he has nothing to hide he won't mind. Check to see texts weren't deleted. When he gave emotional intimacy along with physical intimacy to another woman he lost his privacy right. He needs to do some heavy lifting in the marriage right now.


No reason for him to be in contact other then the truck. I'm not sure how he is going to handle that situation either. I also wasn't pleased at what he told her. I finally got him to tell me what he said,although it was a limited response. He told her,he was ending the relationship and this relationship wasn't working FOR his family and he was staying with us. I never knew he was planning on leaving and whats this! it doesn't work for his family?!!!? I believe she wanted more out of him then he was willing to give or she was going to tell me things he didn't want. That's why I think he ended it.Not because I've been asking. That's the end of the conversation I said? Just chit chat after that. Give me a break. This obsessed woman who calls every hour on the hour had nothing to say about the break up! I told him he is so secretive and protective of this relationship. You are NOT transparent, Honest or trusting. Well he said I told you the answer to what you asked. Well no you didn't. I asked for the whole conversation. Hes not telling

NOW WHAT?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

t2morgan said:


> No reason for him to be in contact other then the truck. I'm not sure how he is going to handle that situation either. I also wasn't pleased at what he told her. I finally got him to tell me what he said,although it was a limited response. He told her,he was ending the relationship and this relationship wasn't working FOR his family and he was staying with us. I never knew he was planning on leaving and whats this! it doesn't work for his family?!!!? I believe she wanted more out of him then he was willing to give or she was going to tell me things he didn't want. That's why I think he ended it.Not because I've been asking. That's the end of the conversation I said? Just chit chat after that. Give me a break. This obsessed woman who calls every hour on the hour had nothing to say about the break up! I told him he is so secretive and protective of this relationship. You are NOT transparent, Honest or trusting. Well he said I told you the answer to what you asked. Well no you didn't. I asked for the whole conversation. Hes not telling
> 
> NOW WHAT?


Trickle truth isn't ALL the truth. Assume there was much more to that conversation and act accordingly. I wouldn't trust him further than I could throw him. It's not just about that woman. He's the real problem here.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Let him know you mean business. Leave him. Do you have children? If so ask him to leave. Let him know that he has to be remorseful and working hard to stay in the relationship. Will he go to counseling? Look up on this forum or maybe someone will jump in with the Betrayed Spouses Bill Of Rights.

Look for a member called Almost Recovered, he has a turtle as his avatar. Read all his signature links. You should also e-mail a moderator to have this thread moved to Coping with infidelity. There are people there that have gone though what you are and can advise you. I can only say it doesn't look good because of your husbands lack of transparency and remorse. I think he will and is continuing this relationship.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

t2,

How are you doing?


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> t2,
> 
> How are you doing?


I'm having a hard time being civil and positive through this. We were together all day yesterday and we will be together all this weekend without anymore interruptions I hope. I'm so stressed I wake up with migraines.Yesterday, Friday the OW called 4 times and text twice. I just ignored it and so did he and we continued on with our project. But after he went to bed and I knew he was asleep,I just had to check the messages..Her am text message was this.

Good morning Lucky (she calls him Lucky. She has 4 dogs,I guess she needed another one) I'm doing EXTRA BEAUTY. Then taking dogs for walk. tx and call. Then to work get off at 5pm. Lets meet at 5:15 at *****. Then her voice message.She was giggling and happy."I guess T is around. It's 5:15 meet me at ****" 

She didn't sound like a woman who's relationship just ended.

This morning I played it cool.If I don't I will make myself sick. She text again 7:30am.I said I wounder who that could be? His response. . Could be anyone. It was her.

I told him very calmly and straight faced....."I am waiting for you to acknowledge that Your behavior, you partake in with this woman, is inappropriate and dose not help sustain a marriage. Until you come to that realization and can apologize for it and truly end it...There will be no resolve" He was taken aback by that and said he was sorry. Then I just carried on as if it didn't bother me,but of course inside it really did.

I don't know anyway else to handle it at the moment without making myself sick. We do have a side business together which makes this more difficult.

Also haven't looked at all the information you suggested,.
Definitely planning on doing it. I need all the help I can get.

Thank you for your concern much appreciated


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Stop focusing & wasting energy on the OW, she is NOT the problem with your marriage, your H is the problem with your marriage.
Your husband is a classic cake eater, he's got you both & is not facing any consequences for his actions.
Until you set consequences for what he is doing, he will continue the affair, no matter how many talks or letters you write.
And why not, he keeps having an affair, which by the way is more than likely a PA at this point, & you do nothing about it.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Sorry you're going through this. There is no easy way to do it. It will be painful if you stay and work on it and it will be painful if you leave. Unfortunately with no remorse from his end you are left with the decision to take it or leave. My heart aches for you.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Phenix70 said:


> Stop focusing & wasting energy on the OW, she is NOT the problem with your marriage, your H is the problem with your marriage.
> Your husband is a classic cake eater, he's got you both & is not facing any consequences for his actions.
> Until you set consequences for what he is doing, he will continue the affair, no matter how many talks or letters you write.
> And why not, he keeps having an affair, which by the way is more than likely a PA at this point, & you do nothing about it.


That is what I'm trying to do, not concentrating on the OW.
But it's easier said then done.....


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> Sorry you're going through this. There is no easy way to do it. It will be painful if you stay and work on it and it will be painful if you leave. Unfortunately with no remorse from his end you are left with the decision to take it or leave. My heart aches for you.


I thank you so much for your support as well as everyone else that has chimed in.

You all are greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

I'm not sure what path I will take from here.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

LanieB said:


> t2Morgan - I'm so sorry for what you're going through. But it sounds like confronting and telling him to end it isn't working. If you want results, you're going to have to get tough. No more being passive about this. Kick him out. See a lawyer. File for divorce. Only then will he know you're serious. It worked for me.
> 
> No one wants to go through this, and it is completely unfair that our spouses can cheat and totally destroy our marriages/lives/families. We have no control over what they've done and simply get to deal with the devastating consequences. It's not fair. But this is the hand we've been dealt. If we want things to get better, we have to get strong and take action, whether we want to or not.


Thank you!

So this worked for you?

Are you still married to the same man? If so, how long did it take till he came around and realized the air of his ways? Did you actually go through with the divorce or did this just scare him straight?


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

I am very perceptive...intuitive...psychic or whatever you want to call it, but my husband went off to the bank then returned with our bank card to give to me. While he was out I could tell he was talking about me. I asked when he came back, were you talking about me? Yes he was.. to the OW. She was just calling to confirm that the relationship had really ended. He told her yes I'm not seeing you anymore. 

Something inside said, No can't say I believe that. I commended him for it anyway, despite what I really felt. He said we had to be patient with her! WHAT! My response... This woman has taken valuable energy and time away from OUR marriage and this you allowed and I have to be patient??!!! WTF.

I think I was made out to be the bad one in this conversation he had with OW. I just feel it. I didn't bring this garbage into the marriage. They brought it to me...

Just had to get this off my chest! Thanks for reading...


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## All of a sudden (Jan 24, 2013)

My husband did the same to me with his bookkeeper. Non stop texting calling , even had an office with her for 4 months without telling me. I put spyware on his phone, but i couldnt keep my mouth shut about what they were saying. I texted her told her to leave my husband alone. She called me crazy. A few weeks went by and all of a sudden he wants a seperation. I said no way divorce, you will not be sleeping with other people trying to decide who you want best. He left went to hotel , find out later she was there one night with her newborn baby , and he said only snuggled. He claims they have never kissed. Swears on his kids( we have 4 been married 15 dated 2). Then he says he breaks contact. Nope they still had to finish up the bookeeping work until we found another. He went away to a training seminar and told me to go ahead and file for divorce, i was to controlling, spying on him, ect. So i met with lawyer and wrote up paperwork. Cost 5000 that i still have her holding. He finally said that he wanted to stay in our marriage,i found out he talked to her during his training, after the suppose no contact. Then i want polygraph and he admits to a physical affair 7 years ago that went on for months. She was a friend who i was nice to all the time she was around.

I wouldnt trust him that its over. After spyware he used skype, to take it more underground. I asked to see it he deleted then showed me.


Sorry for long post but there are many ways they can keep it going. I used sms tracker which shows his texts and gps,mms,pictures. Doesnt cover skype. 

He now lets me look at all his stuff but who knows if there are other emails or burner phone.

Depending how long and the depth of his feelings, go with your gut, if it tells you something is wrong, it usually is.
I told her exhusband that his baby was going to hotel rooms in the middle of the night plus put her on cheaterville. It comes up first when google her name.lol.

I dont know if i trust him yet but everything seems above board. I still dont trust him. Try the var in the car and gps him.

Goodluck hard road to fix but if hes sincere and willing give it a chance. If she keeps calling, buy him a new phone number.


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## curlysue321 (Jul 30, 2012)

He needs to have no contact at all with this so-called "friend." I would put a device on his computer and his phone to make sure all contact has stopped. I would also seek out some marriage counseling so it can enlighten him as to how damaging this was.


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

All of a sudden said:


> My husband did the same to me with his bookkeeper. Non stop texting calling , even had an office with her for 4 months without telling me. I put spyware on his phone, but i couldnt keep my mouth shut about what they were saying. I texted her told her to leave my husband alone. She called me crazy. A few weeks went by and all of a sudden he wants a seperation. I said no way divorce, you will not be sleeping with other people trying to decide who you want best. He left went to hotel , find out later she was there one night with her newborn baby , and he said only snuggled. He claims they have never kissed. Swears on his kids( we have 4 been married 15 dated 2). Then he says he breaks contact. Nope they still had to finish up the bookeeping work until we found another. He went away to a training seminar and told me to go ahead and file for divorce, i was to controlling, spying on him, ect. So i met with lawyer and wrote up paperwork. Cost 5000 that i still have her holding. He finally said that he wanted to stay in our marriage,i found out he talked to her during his training, after the suppose no contact. Then i want polygraph and he admits to a physical affair 7 years ago that went on for months. She was a friend who i was nice to all the time she was around.
> 
> I wouldnt trust him that its over. After spyware he used skype, to take it more underground. I asked to see it he deleted then showed me.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to give some perspective.

Wanted to try the spyware for cell,but unfortunately he has an older cell that it will not work with. He's been planning on getting a new one so at that time I can try it out.

He wants to try and make things better. I've even suggested he read Dr. Shirley Glass "Not Just Friends" He said he would, but hasn't yet.I would really like to put this all to bed and start believing him but....

Thank you for your input


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## t2morgan (Oct 22, 2012)

curlysue321 said:


> He needs to have no contact at all with this so-called "friend." I would put a device on his computer and his phone to make sure all contact has stopped. I would also seek out some marriage counseling so it can enlighten him as to how damaging this was.


Yes. I agree about counseling and learn of the damage this has really caused. As I said, he doesn't think the relationship is wrong because of no sex. But in reality it is wrong. He's treated this woman as you would treat a wife. I've seen this in action. It's hurtful and he doesn't get it! 

I would like to use some spyware just to put my mind at ease. It would have to be a VAR, his cell doesn't accommodate spyware.


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