# Not all affairs are the product of troubled marriages



## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I just read a book "Not Just Friends" and they stated that people in happy marriages still are at risk for infidelity. Before my husband's emotional affair he described himself as "very happy" with our marriage when I asked. I thought we were very happy. Sometimes even in a good marriage someone just cannot resist the ego boost that attention from the opposite sex evokes. If someone goes outside the marriage people just assume that there is something missing in the marriage. My husband didn't complain about our marriage until he was in a fog caused by the other woman. He saw our marriage as good prior to spending time with her. A person in an affair will look for problems in their marriage to justify their actions even if they have to manufacture those "problems". I am not saying that is true for all relationships. In some marriages something is missing, but it is a myth that infidelity only occurs in unhappy marriages.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It is true.

That's why affairs are so insidious and devastating. When one partner decides to unilaterally destroy a good marriage for no other reason than to satisfy their own selfishness, it just doesn't make any fvcking sense. 

A good portion of the BSs here on TAM enjoyed good marriages before their partners decided to just go off the rails for no damn good reason. 

Writers, self-appointed marriage gurus, columnists and television talk show hosts have made fortunes spreading the lie that all affairs are a result of one partner not meeting the other's needs. It is a lie forged in the bowels of hell, and the whole world has bought into that lie. 

I hated the movie "Unfaithful" for a long time, but now I actually endorse it, because it shows the common truth that sometimes even a person who is in a good marriage can randomly enter into an affair for no other motivations other than self-gratification and lust.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I wonder if some people are predisposed to cheat, no matter how good their marriage?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IDsrvBetr (Jul 29, 2015)

Well, according to me and everyone else that knew us, this was our situation. They are always telling me that up to the A my wife would always talk so good about me and how happy she was to have the life we have. Then all of a sudden everything went exactly opposite. Hearing her now nobody understands because what she says now is most definitely not what she personally told them just four months ago in conversations she would have with them. We were always close and worked together on most everything. We were always very comfortabe around each other. There is no way she could have been that good of an actress to fake all that we were. 

Insidious and devastating are definitely two very accurate adjectives.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I wonder if some people are predisposed to cheat, no matter how good their marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Genetics/biology probably do play a part in some cases but society plays more a part in today's day and age. Cheating has always existed but we are seemingly bombarded with it now. Cheating websites advertise on TV now. With each passing generation we are becoming a more selfish society. It's all about me. We are told every day to chase "happiness " but people have lost the ability to be content.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It isn't so much the cheating that bothers me. What bothers me is that way many cheaters go on to blame their spouses and everyone but themselves for their affairs, and exhibit no remorse whatsoever for the sh!tty choices they have made and the lives they have destroyed. It is the sociopathy of unrepentant cheaters that enfuriates me. 

And not just that.... What I can never understand are these cheating people who go on these cheaters websites and literally brag about their cheating and how they are pulling the wool over their spouses eyes, and how stupid their spouses are and how much fun they Re having. Sick sh!t.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

IDsrvBetr said:


> Well, according to me and everyone else that knew us, this was our situation. They are always telling me that up to the A my wife would always talk so good about me and how happy she was to have the life we have. Then all of a sudden everything went exactly opposite. Hearing her now nobody understands because what she says now is most definitely not what she personally told them just four months ago in conversations she would have with them. We were always close and worked together on most everything. We were always very comfortabe around each other. There is no way she could have been that good of an actress to fake all that we were.
> 
> Insidious and devastating are definitely two very accurate adjectives.


Cheaters have to rewrite the marital history so that they can justify in their minds that what they are doing is acceptable. It's part of the cheaters script. Your wife is nothing special. Most of them do the same thing she is doing.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> It isn't so much the cheating that bothers me. What bothers me is that way many cheaters go on to blame their spouses and everyone but themselves for their affairs, and exhibit no remorse whatsoever for the sh!tty choices they have made and the lives they have destroyed. It is the sociopathy of unrepentant cheaters that enfuriates me.
> 
> And not just that.... What I can never understand are these cheating people who go on these cheaters websites and literally brag about their cheating and how they are pulling the wool over their spouses eyes, and how stupid their spouses are and how much fun they Re having. Sick sh!t.


Absolutely.

A total lack of remorse and false R whilst continuing to cheat is by far the biggest mind f^ck you can possible submit someone to.

That is what really screwed me up.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Cheaters have to rewrite the marital history so that they can justify in their minds that what they are doing is acceptable. It's part of the cheaters script. Your wife is nothing special. Most of them do the same thing she is doing.


Amen brother. Cheater 101.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Flying over the Atlantic yesterday, I watched a little bit of The Affair, an acclaimed TV series. The airline's choice of such a film as entertainment underscores how normal infidelity is in the minds of executives in charge of customer satisfaction. I did not watch more that pieces of the pilot and some minutes of the next episode. Clearly, the screen play was not about the mentally ill or grossly dysfunctional characters. The heroes of the series are normal people, who are more attractive than average. They are also professionals at eliciting empathy. In short, it is possible for normal people suffering pain and frustration to find emotional comfort in the arms and genitals of someone other than their spouse.

There is nothing surprizing in this thesis. Marriage is a legal bond is to protect monogamy by elevating the respectability of marriage. There is economic punishment for destroying a marriage, but that punishment is not portioned out in larger part to the adulterer. No fault combined with spousal support can mean that a cheater can make out like a bandit.

As long as the media and society in general promote infidelity as a choice, it will be a normal life experience. People will look to programs like The Affair for guidance. 

From what I could make out of the show's banal plot, the cheating-wife-to-be was raped anally by her affection starved husband over the hood of car while the cheating-husband-to-be was there to witness it after he honorably resisted the sexual invitation of the woman. She was grieving the death of her child. The cheating husband had a difficulty son, who had traumatized him by faking a suicide by hanging. He suffered humiliation at the hands of his wealthy in-laws. So both cheaters had two good excuses for seeking emotional relationships outside of their marriages.

I know good people who have cheated. I have a woman friend whose husband would not allow her to have a child. Later on they tried to adopt but were declared too old. He is a selfish jerk. He lost his professor tract job at the university for failing to publish. He then found contract work overseas for 6 months at a time overseas. He has left her alone for years. I don't understand why she stays with him. I guess it is codependency of some sort.

Although I am close to her emotionally, we seldom meet largely because I don't feel comfortable about her pain. As guy friend, it could end with us becoming closer. I don't want to go there.

Another friend of mine was divorced for cheating. His wife of many years was a nice person. I liked her. She once told him he was free to have sex outside of marriage as long as he did not tell her about it. He managed not to sleep with the attractive subordinates at work – that required some discipline – but he got involved with an emotionally needy woman who is not – to my mind anyway – better than his ex wife. While his wife thought she could stand some casual messing around, she could not accept a long term emotional affair. Hence, a bitter break up. 

My friend's grown sons did not like the cheating. They do not accept OW, whom my friend quietly married.

I think my friend made a big mistake but that's the way things go.

Cheating is normal and it is normal for it to add to the net unhappiness of many people.

Oh yes, in July I was at an international event that ended with a banquet. Stepping outside of the dance and drinking session, I saw two participants meet up on the street to sneak off. He was marriage and she was engaged. This I could see from Facebook. They both struck me as nice people. They were both extremely attractive and far from home. They had spent stressful months preparing for the event and now that it was over, they had to blow off steam by having wild monkey sex.

The guy was staying in the same hotel that I was and one of his mates said there was no way he was cheating. He was to honest but I never saw him return that night or the next day. There was a lot of risk for them since there were potential witnesses. Maybe in a couple of months there FB pages will tell a different story about their relationship status.


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I may not be able to talk for four hours straight, but I am an open and sharing person. My speech is positive and uplifting. I am not a critical person. He is my best friend and I share everything that happens to me with him. I ask him about his day every day and repeat back to him what i understand he is saying so he knows he is heard. There isn't anything that he can't tell me where he won't get my expressed verbal empathy and support. He used to describe me as "perfect" and then himself as "very happy" and then he started seeing this other woman and started comparing me to her negatively. That's what happens in the fog of an emotional affair they see the affair partner as perfect and the spouse as lacking. Now that the other woman has moved on with her life hubby says he is happy with our relationship again and he acts happy towards me. He says our communication has improved. My personality and communication style are the exact same as when he used to tell me I was "perfect" and then that we had "no communication" while he was seeing the other woman and now "improved communication". The only thing that has changed is hubby's perception now that he is out of the fog. 

I now feel insecure about who I am since the affair. Before I was totally comfortable with myself now I feel bad because I can't "talk about the wall for an hour" which is what hubby actually said other woman can do. I find those people annoying. I share everything, but I am direct and to the point and I don't beat around the bush. I appreciate when other people get to the point of what they are saying rather than drag things out. I wonder if hubby were married to the other woman I were his ea partner that he was in the fog with if he wouldn't say "don't you ever shut up? Helenbean can sum up that wall in ten minutes and make her point."


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> It isn't so much the cheating that bothers me. *What bothers me is that way many cheaters go on to blame their spouses and everyone but themselves for their affairs, *and exhibit no remorse whatsoever for the sh!tty choices they have made and the lives they have destroyed. It is the sociopathy of unrepentant cheaters that enfuriates me.
> 
> And not just that.... What I can never understand are these cheating people who go on these cheaters websites and literally brag about their cheating and how they are pulling the wool over their spouses eyes, and how stupid their spouses are and how much fun they Re having. Sick sh!t.


Well said @bandit.45 and what is sad is when the BS swallows that load of BS and accepts the blame for the cheater going out and [email protected]#$%^& around. We all face trials its how we deal with those trails that reflects our character.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Personal said:


> Funnily enough in your response as quoted above you did not answer whether you invest more time emotionally with your therapist than your husband and likewise don't address sex at all.
> 
> So am I right to presume that in your marriage by your choice and preference you invest more of yourself emotionally with your therapist than your husband, and also choose to seldom have sex with you husband if at all?


I think you are way out of line. You're make presumptions about Helen's situation. Why? Why are you trying to make her feel responsible for a choice her H made. If he "needed more" from her he is a grown man who could have communicated that to her, or tried something else within the confines of their marriage. Instead, he chose to introduce a third party to the marriage, not her.
Back off.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

I wouldn't have called my marriage troubled. Sure we had things to work on, but nothing devastating. 

But my XW couldn't resist the excitement of having elicit affairs. Even after I caught her the first time and laid out what she stood to lose, she continued. She went deeper underground with it, but never stopped.

When I caught her the second time and we separated, she wanted to keep working on our marriage. But that ship had sailed, 2 years in false R and 4 affair partners was enough hell on earth for me.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

helenbean said:


> Sex is overrated. There are lots of couples out there that are happy that don't have sex that often. Friendship is more important than sex.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Personal said:


> No I am not out of line at all so you ought to back off!
> 
> Asking "am I right to presume" is a question for presumption not a statement of presumption, please feel free to get your facts straight before you make erroneous accusations
> 
> ...


Your presumption is that she is telling herself lies.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I wonder if some people are predisposed to cheat, no matter how good their marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Cheating is a result of:
1) poor boundaries
2) poor decision making
3) poor internal checks (i.e. asking yourself if you are acting appropriately)


Cheating is and will always be about choice


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

My observation, is and will continue to be until something shows me different, that women who cheat have a low romantic interest in, and/or see their partner as boring, or feel long term rejection. How interest got lowered, boring feelings are there or they feel rejected, is up for debate but that's the common denominators I've observed. (bear in mind, a low romantic interest , boring outlook or feeling of rejection does not necessarily result in an "troubled" marriage. In fact, most spouses that are raising hell with each other in a classic troubled marriage, choose to walk away or stay together and fight it out rather than get involved in more stress. ).
Again, I welcome women on this site to school me on where I'm going wrong. Save it men. You're trying to avoid looking like you may have screwed up.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I just read a book "Not Just Friends" and they stated that people in happy marriages still are at risk for infidelity. Before my husband's emotional affair he described himself as "very happy" with our marriage when I asked. I thought we were very happy. Sometimes even in a good marriage someone just cannot resist the ego boost that attention from the opposite sex evokes. If someone goes outside the marriage people just assume that there is something missing in the marriage. My husband didn't complain about our marriage until he was in a fog caused by the other woman. He saw our marriage as good prior to spending time with her. A person in an affair will look for problems in their marriage to justify their actions even if they have to manufacture those "problems". I am not saying that is true for all relationships. In some marriages something is missing, but it is a myth that infidelity only occurs in unhappy marriages.



Certainly even good marriages can experience infidelity. It can and usually does come from a ego boost from the opposite sex. Have you ever heard, "You are just saying that because we are married."? Somehow, saying you adore, love and are sexually attracted to your significant other becomes null and void after so many years only because what you said is "required" as a result of being married. That is utter bullsh!t. Yet, hearing it from OM/OW is much more validating of emotions. The comments of endearment from another hold weight because they are not married to you. It is not a requirement or simply saying it to say it. These comments validate a person into believing they still "have it" and these comments are not simply said as a requirement because of marriage. It is exciting! What is being said must be true!


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Certainly even good marriages can experience infidelity. It can and usually does come from a ego boost from the opposite sex. Have you ever heard, "You are just saying that because we are married."? Somehow, saying you adore, love and are sexually attracted to your significant other becomes null and void after so many years only because what you said is "required" as a result of being married. That is utter bullsh!t. Yet, hearing it from OM/OW is much more validating of emotions. The comments of endearment from another hold weight because they are not married to you. It is not a requirement or simply saying it to say it. These comments validate a person into believing they still "have it" and these comments are not simply said as a requirement because of marriage. It is exciting! What is being said must be true!


Agreed, I think most affairs are about how they make the WS feel and usually has little to do with the affair partner themselves hence the success rate is like 3% long term or less. DUDE


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> Agreed, I think most affairs are about how they make the WS feel and usually has little to do with the affair partner themselves hence the success rate is like 3% long term or less. DUDE


Exactly. How they make them feel. Someone is giving me attention other than my H/W. I still got it! This OM/OW sees me as attractive and me for me! Oh the excitement! My H/W just knows me from years and years. He/she is required to like me. Not much excitement there. Same old same old.

Let's be honest. Who does not like attention from the opposite sex? The difference is boundary and respecting your significant other.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Pluto2 said:


> Your presumption is that she is telling herself lies.


I would not put it that way. If we cannot bring up hard topics and ask each other touch topics, then what's the use of a support forum like TAM? 

I see the same thing that Personal does. It's a good point. IMHO


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I was (unknowingly) married to a serial cheater. In his case, and I think it may be a common mindset of serial cheaters, whether or not the marriage was happy was never even part of the equation. Our marriage was entirely separate in his mind from his affairs. The two planes did not intersect in any way. He actually said that several times to one of our marriage counselors - back when I thought it was just the one affair I'd caught him in. He simply believed - with an unquestioning and soul deep certainty - that anything that I didn't know could not possibly hurt me, and that whatever he did when I wasn't with him was literally absolutely none of my business.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

People have affairs for different reasons.

There are the classic serial cheater types who would cheat no matter what their marriage is like. They people with something very broken inside of them. For example some people are raised to believe that cheating is just something that everyone does and thus lying to a spouse is just normal. Then there are the narcissists, psychopaths and other people with serious mental illness and/or personality illnesses.

The rest of cheaters are fall into the group with unmet needs. 

Sometimes the unmet needs profound.. and greatly the fault of the BS who abuses their spouse, or seriously emotionally abandon's them, etc, and so the WS finds comfort in someone else. 

Sometimes a WS was 'happy' in the marriage. But, no one can meet 100% of another person's needs. So then the WS meets someone who fills the needs that their BS is not filing. It's not that the marriage is bad. It's that it's intoxicating to have even more of their needs met.

The "love" bank is a good analogy for this. No one has their love bank filled to the top 100% of the time. About 50% is about normal. So when an AP comes along and needs even more needs, getting the love bank fuller.. up to the 80%-90% level... and affair often happens. What we call the affair fog is the euphoria caused by having so many of one's needs met. Basically it creates a spoiled person who does not want to give up all the chips in their now overfull love bank.

What that means is that just about anyone is vulnerable, emotionally, to an affair. So the difference is that some protect themselves from falling into an affair. Others don't.

What affairs can do, as in the OPs case, is to uncover something that is lacking for the WS and even for the BS. It does not mean that in every marriage in which an affair happens, the BS is a cad who drove their spouse to have an affair. Some spouses care cads. Some are just inperfect people as all of us are.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Rowan said:


> I was (unknowingly) married to a serial cheater. In his case, and I think it may be a common mindset of serial cheaters, whether or not the marriage was happy was never even part of the equation. Our marriage was entirely separate in his mind from his affairs. The two planes did not intersect in any way. He actually said that several times to one of our marriage counselors - back when I thought it was just the one affair I'd caught him in. He simply believed - with an unquestioning and soul deep certainty - that anything that I didn't know could not possibly hurt me, and that whatever he did when I wasn't with him was literally absolutely none of my business.


My son's father is like this. He thought it was his right to cheat. When I mentioned his cheating to his mother, she said that all men cheat so I needed to put up with it

He grew up with a father who openly cheated. He learned that lesson well.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I just read a book "Not Just Friends" and they stated that people in happy marriages still are at risk for infidelity. Before my husband's emotional affair he described himself as "very happy" with our marriage when I asked. I thought we were very happy. Sometimes even in a good marriage someone just cannot resist the ego boost that attention from the opposite sex evokes. If someone goes outside the marriage people just assume that there is something missing in the marriage. My husband didn't complain about our marriage until he was in a fog caused by the other woman. He saw our marriage as good prior to spending time with her. A person in an affair will look for problems in their marriage to justify their actions even if they have to manufacture those "problems". I am not saying that is true for all relationships. In some marriages something is missing, but it is a myth that infidelity only occurs in unhappy marriages.



Anyone got an answer why a perfectly spouse would suddenly "create lies n unhappiness " to justify their crime ?

Cant understand .


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Sometimes a WS was 'happy' in the marriage. But, no one can meet 100% of another person's needs. So then the WS meets someone who fills the needs that their BS is not filing. It's not that the marriage is bad. It's that it's intoxicating to have even more of their needs met.
> 
> The "love" bank is a good analogy for this. No one has their love bank filled to the top 100% of the time. About 50% is about normal. So when an AP comes along and needs even more needs, getting the love bank fuller.. up to the 80%-90% level... and affair often happens. What we call the affair fog is the euphoria caused by having so many of one's needs met. Basically it creates a spoiled person who does not want to give up all the chips in their now overfull love bank.


Excellent perspective. That is exactly what happened with my STBXWW. It also makes it very hard to reconcile and make the marriage affair proof in the future, because you don't have obvious underlying issues to address other than selfishness on the part of the WS.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Cheating is always part of the make up of the character of a cheater.

It is a possibility with all of them and a certainly with some.

Some of them need a little stress or neglect to reveal that part of their character some need to be stripped almost to the bone before it is revealed.

There are many for whom cheating will never be an option under any circumstances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> My son's father is like this. He thought it was his right to cheat. When I mentioned his cheating to his mother, she said that all men cheat so I needed to put up with it
> 
> He grew up with a father who openly cheated. He learned that lesson well.


WOW! All I can say about that family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> Exactly. How they make them feel. Someone is giving me attention other than my H/W. I still got it! This OM/OW sees me as attractive and me for me! Oh the excitement! My H/W just knows me from years and years. He/she is required to like me. Not much excitement there. Same old same old.
> 
> Let's be honest. Who does not like attention from the opposite sex? The difference is boundary and respecting your significant other.


And the degree of change in people over the long haul is so vast that its very difficult to change in some sort of unison. I'm certainly not defending a wayward mindset because for a lot of them, they lose their mind during their affair. Its too chaotic of a life to lead if it lasts long at all. Thats why my theory is these waywards end up with wrecked lives/minds and subject to drug/alcohol abuse, dementia and the like. They(waywards) ultimately do the most damage to themselves but its very hard for betrayed spouses to get this point. Once they do, they heal MUCH FASTER....DUDE


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Dude007 said:


> And the degree of change in people over the long haul is so vast that its very difficult to change in some sort of unison. I'm certainly not defending a wayward mindset because for a lot of them, they lose their mind during their affair. Its too chaotic of a life to lead if it lasts long at all. Thats why my theory is these waywards end up with wrecked lives/minds and subject to drug/alcohol abuse, dementia and the like. They(waywards) ultimately do the most damage to themselves but its very hard for betrayed spouses to get this point. Once they do, they heal MUCH FASTER....DUDE


I have seen it. My FIL cheated on his W. Soon after the drinking began. He died at the age of 55 with liver disease from the drinking.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bananapeel said:


> Excellent perspective. That is exactly what happened with my STBXWW. It also makes it very hard to reconcile and make the marriage affair proof in the future, because you don't have obvious underlying issues to address other than selfishness on the part of the WS.


There are ways to address affair proofing a marriage in this kind of situation.

It requires that the WS does a not of work to figure out their vulnerability and to address it. Then both spouses do the work to figure out how to protect the marriage. But it requires that the two work together on the issues forever. It takes self evaluation and commitment. Many cannot do either.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Keep in mind that the couple may disagree on whether or not the marriage is happy. Years ago my wife would have told everyone that we had a fantastic, wonderful marriage. She was dimly aware that I had some minor issue regarding our sex life, but that it wasn't important. I on the other hand would have said that we had a marriage that lacked all physical intimacy, that I was her friend, or maybe servant, but not lover. That she ignored every attempt I made to explain this to her.

I came close to having an affair, and I felt pretty justified doing so. I didn't but instead started to tell my wife I wanted a divorce, but before I got there, she finally realized that I was really unhappy and changed things. But I was in a situation where a divorce would have been painless - no children, simple finances etc. I would not fault someone in my situation who did have an affair. 

Now that our marriage is in better shape, I have no interest in an affair. 

This is not to say that all affairs are the result of problems in marriage, but some are. I think some are the result of people who need something they can't get in their own marriages.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I wonder if some people are predisposed to cheat, no matter how good their marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


People are predisposed to desire feeling good via neural chemistry. The rush one can get from this is a powerful motivator that often overwhelms logic. See the link in my sig on Love V. Fog for a more detailed account.




EleGirl said:


> People have affairs for different reasons.
> 
> There are the classic serial cheater types who would cheat no matter what their marriage is like. They people with something very broken inside of them. For example some people are raised to believe that cheating is just something that everyone does and thus lying to a spouse is just normal. Then there are the narcissists, psychopaths and other people with serious mental illness and/or personality illnesses.
> 
> *The rest of cheaters are fall into the group with unmet needs.*


I disagree with this. My marriage was good and it was in the best shape it had been for years when I had an EA. Mrs. meson met all of my needs and then some. 

There wasn't a vacuum that was filled but rather I learned from the OW and enjoyed her company. It just felt good to be with her and do things for her. The fact that my marriage was in great shape is what snapped me back to focusing on my wife and stop escalating contact with the OW. Even Entropy3000 stated that it just felt right and indeed it did and it felt good. But it was wrong.



EleGirl said:


> Sometimes the unmet needs profound.. and greatly the fault of the BS who abuses their spouse, or seriously emotionally abandon's them, etc, and so the WS finds comfort in someone else.
> 
> Sometimes a WS was 'happy' in the marriage. But, no one can meet 100% of another person's needs. So then the WS meets someone who fills the needs that their BS is not filing. It's not that the marriage is bad. It's that it's intoxicating to have even more of their needs met.
> 
> ...


This is very true. Everyone is vulnerable to an affair. Everyone. The difference is what you do to protect your marriage. My experience has led to much better boundaries and more transparency for me and my wife. I protected myself from getting further in once my wife told me about it. Who knows what would have happend if this had happened when our marriage was in a bad spot as it was a few years earlier. It is our responsibility to behave in a marriage friendly way and to look out for our spouses.

I didn't intend to develop feelings for another but it happened because I like most of us are imperfect as Ele states. My wife understands that and helped me out. That achieved much better results than assuming it was all because I was a self centered narcissist undeserving of a wife like many here purport.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

My marriage was not good but i was trying very hard to be happy . I didnt cheat . Never came close . I had people showing interest in me but i was aloof n assertive when people try to flirt so nobody tries too hard . Maybe some people are more prone to cheat .


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

I was motivated by my children to keep my principles . Dont want my boys to call me names .


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

tripad said:


> My marriage was not good but i was trying very hard to be happy . I didnt cheat . Never came close . I had people showing interest in me but i was aloof n assertive when people try to flirt so nobody tries too hard . Maybe some people are more prone to cheat .


Maybe some people are more DESPERATE to cheat . There, I fixed it for you! DUDE


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Acoa said:


> I wouldn't have called my marriage troubled. Sure we had things to work on, but nothing devastating.
> 
> But my XW couldn't resist the excitement of having elicit affairs. Even after I caught her the first time and laid out what she stood to lose, she continued. She went deeper underground with it, but never stopped.
> 
> When I caught her the second time and we separated, she wanted to keep working on our marriage. But that ship had sailed, 2 years in false R and 4 affair partners was enough hell on earth for me.


Has she settled down at all?


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

One detail I see repeated quite often, is how a spouse or so with a long history of fidelity and loyalty who sees themselves as deeply moral suddenly transforms into a cheater and abandons their former life as if it never existed. Part of what that says to me is that we are ALL vulnerable to an affair if we do not maintain proper boundaries. 

The state of our marriages might result in a 6 month secret affair vs a walk away wife and empty bank accounts, but by itself cannot prevent an affair.

Tamat


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## hospitality (Feb 24, 2014)

I'm going to post exclusively on why good people in good relationships cheat.

Someone once wrote, "affairs are like fog, they move in very very slowly!" Social media and coed work environments have completely destroyed boundaries for lots of married couples. Perfectly happy people find themselves having lunch with beautiful people five days per week, sitting on the couch interacting with the opposite sex via FB discussing legitimate topics and spending hundreds of hours together with the opposite sex via social media, work related trips or work related social activities.

Further if would to suggest that most people don't even view an EA as cheating. I travel locally from professional office to professional office. I know most of the people at each of these offices very well. Most are upstanding super parents and spouses, but they laugh and enjoy certain members of the opposite sex much you can tell they like each other. They eat lunch together, go downstairs on breaks to get coffee, they talk about their lives, they use company resources like email/text/phone to communicate and BS with each other. Over time they really grow fond of each other. Some never cross into the physical but I can constantly tell that if X and Y weren't married they would both be screwing each other's brains out!

100% of the people I know who have cheated were complete shocks to me. In fact when one of my best friends informed me of his wife's infidelity I nearly crashed my car I was so surprised. They had what everyone viewed as the ideal relationship, she never talked negatively about her spouse, never made a pass at me or anyone I knew. When they divorced she came clean about everything since she was moving on. He affair started with an unintentional EA that lasted several years, they would travel together and never do anything physical and then one night at a company sponsored conference they screwed each other all night and for the next year. The EA started with lunch with everyone, then being assigned to projects together, because their joint projects were so successful they put together as a team constantly, they spent countless hours working together with zero PA but the fog moved in oh so slowly that a boundary never seemed to be crossed even to her husband. 

The same can be said for the couples I know who have had affairs via social media. It starts talking about the kids casually, then five minutes at school in the morning, then a few minutes at the gym, then a text about the kids home work, then a how have you been I haven't seen you at church etc. So slowly the fog has moved in that the shear slowness of the EA seems to validate it's innocence. But slowly and slowly the attraction grows that spouse slowly but surely withdraws from their spouse. By this point the otherwise happy spouse is in such a fog they start depending on AP for emotional support/excitement/love/sex. 

Over the past few months a very attractive woman at the gym in the morning started opening up about her marriage. At first it didn't seem like anything just fun conversation with a super hot woman, then she started intentionally working out next to me to start asking about my marriage, then she started complimenting me, then she started telling me how much see enjoyed working out together, then she started talking negatively about her husband/marriage and then I stopped talking to her her completely so it wouldn't develop into an EA because I view EAs worse then PA. 

Society today has so many vehicles for an outsider to distract your marriage and gain traction that most people just never see it coming unless they have massive boundaries set and proactive in limiting contact with certain people as I mentioned.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hospitality said:


> I'm going to post exclusively on why good people in good relationships cheat.
> 
> Someone once wrote, "affairs are like fog, they move in very very slowly!" Social media and coed work environments have completely destroyed boundaries for lots of married couples. Perfectly happy people find themselves having lunch with beautiful people five days per week, sitting on the couch interacting with the opposite sex via FB discussing legitimate topics and spending hundreds of hours together with the opposite sex via social media, work related trips or work related social activities.
> 
> ...


Did she move on with her AP?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The "love" bank is a good analogy for this. No one has their love bank filled to the top 100% of the time. About 50% is about normal. So when an AP comes along and needs even more needs, getting the love bank fuller.. up to the 80%-90% level... and affair often happens. What we call the affair fog is the euphoria caused by having so many of one's needs met. Basically it creates a spoiled person who does not want to give up all the chips in their now overfull love bank.


What a revelation. This concept just smacked me in the head. My first thought was "what? We are all running around half Empty." Then the well that means half full thought. Then the do I need to be stuffed to the gills to be happy? or do I just need regular meals, and the occasional snack? 

I'm on a new diet (dr's orders) this is why I'm comparing every thing to food. So how is my love diet? That's what I'm wondering. I'm getting regular meals. I'm getting a few snacks. I miss a meal every now and again. And love is more than sex. But I do need both. My love-o-meter is reading over 60% by my gut. But then again I'm on the introvert side of the personality chart so my bank might be undersized.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Affairs are complicated.

I mean, some are simple, sure. As simple as an attitude adopted early on that cheating is OK. Or because one person withdraws sex or affection or attention for an extended period of time, and the other person has an affair as a consequence.

But the ones I've seen seem to be more complex. Sometimes it's just the temptation, the thrill of the chase, or of the new. Sometimes it's as simple as the taboo of it.

Once, I saw one reasonably close up, and for the woman it was having the emotional and sexual attention of two men -- it made her feel very desired and powerful. Until it was discovered, and she lost both, and then it just made her throw up.

For me, it's now a more complex thing. Maybe I've been reading too much esther perel. I used to think you can 'affair proof' a marriage by being the kind of dude your spouse would want to have an affair with. I still think that can lower your odds, but not by much.

I think you need a spouse that doesn't delude themselves that they're immune to an affair, and guards themselves against it. And having your head on a swivel about it and never being complacent.

I mean, I guess it comes down to mean, motive, and opportunity. Everyone can give themselves the means. Most have the motive. Almost everyone has the opportunity.

Everyone fixates on opportunity, and I think that's a big one. I'm more focused on motive. Where there's a will, there's a way...


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## hospitality (Feb 24, 2014)

Yes went PA at that company function. She is married to OM. They didn't have kids so they had a clean break up. She was completely open and didn't rug sweep anything or try to rationalize anything to him. Unfortunately she was so in love with OM that it ruined our friendship since the OM is a blow hard and my friend's new wife is boring.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

tripad said:


> Anyone got an answer why a perfectly spouse would suddenly "create lies n unhappiness " to justify their crime ?
> 
> Cant understand .


No spouse is perfect, no one. It's incredibly easy to find flaws in ANY relationship and exaggerate them in order to use them as an excuse to cheat.

Here's a BETTER question. How can a relationship be SO bad that you have to cheat but not bad enough that you would leave? Kind of like being "mostly dead" isn't it? 

There are "walk away" wives and husbands too I'll admit but again apparently you're only bad enough to leave ONCE a replacement is found and not before. 

Some people only love themselves and the person they are with at any given moment is simply the person that provides them the most benefit from being used.


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

Reading through this thread I am struck once again by a much bigger question - is long-term monogamy worth it? Of course there are always examples of people married for 50years and happily so just like there are examples of people married 5 times who are also happy (maybe not during the divorces lol)....assuming a bell curve, I have to wonder what the middle ground looks like, it sure seems like in these days that cheating is rampant.

I have always felt good about the fact that I have never cheated but things have gotten so funky at home I can see how it happens....worse still, I grew up believing Men were the most likely culprits and now it seems women (who have always had an easier channel for sex) are doing it more and more...given the changing state of things I can't help but returning to the bigger question at beginning of my post, is it even worth it? 

For those of you with the immediate response of yes, keep and eye on all the posts, news articles, etc. that reflect a cheater saying I was happy but couldn't resist. I like to think of the old high school question - if the women or man of your dreams offered it to you, would you...sounds like even as adults we're saying yes (even though probably not the man or women of our dreams but close enough must count)....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hospitality said:


> Yes went PA at that company function. She is married to OM. They didn't have kids so they had a clean break up. She was completely open and didn't rug sweep anything or try to rationalize anything to him. Unfortunately she was so in love with OM that it ruined our friendship since the OM is a blow hard and my friend's new wife is boring.


How long has she been married to the OM? She sounds like a selfish woman to me - to have an extended affair EA/PA - she didn't have to rug sweep she was leaving him. Did your friend ever heal from such a grotesque betrayal?


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> No spouse is perfect, no one. It's incredibly easy to find flaws in ANY relationship and exaggerate them in order to use them as an excuse to cheat.
> 
> Here's a BETTER question. How can a relationship be SO bad that you have to cheat but not bad enough that you would leave? Kind of like being "mostly dead" isn't it?
> 
> ...


You all are missing the point, THEY HAVE BOTH A SPOUSE AND AN AFFAIR PARTNER...The marriage might have been pretty good, its the incremental that is the big DRAW!!! They keep it SECRET, to KEEP BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes its selfish and destructive but they would LOVE to cake eat all the way out, but for females especially, they are actually ruining their mind.(Dementia Awaits) The damage of that chaotic life is just too much to bare. DUDE


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> You all are missing the point, THEY HAVE BOTH A SPOUSE AND AN AFFAIR PARTNER...The marriage might have been pretty good, its the incremental that is the big DRAW!!! They keep it SECRET, to KEEP BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes its selfish and destructive but they would LOVE to cake eat all the way out, but for females especially, they are actually ruining their mind.(Dementia Awaits) The damage of that chaotic life is just too much to bare. DUDE


That's the allure for some sure but not for all. Cheaters cheat for many different reasons but we all agree NONE of them are valid.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> we all agree NONE of them are valid.


They are anything but valid!!! They are a train wreck!!! And what about the betrayed who finds out of the affair and the wayward spouse begs them not to leave, ONLY THEY DO, LEFT TO DRIFT AIMLESSLY IN MISERY THE REST OF THEIR LIFE...Thats the real risk and its existential. If you are going wayward, you better have already resigned yourself to losing your spouse and your life or you are bat**** crazy the rest of your life...DUDE


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## hospitality (Feb 24, 2014)

BetrayedDad said:


> No spouse is perfect, no one. It's incredibly easy to find flaws in ANY relationship and exaggerate them in order to use them as an excuse to cheat.
> 
> Here's a BETTER question. How can a relationship be SO bad that you have to cheat but not bad enough that you would leave? Kind of like being "mostly dead" isn't it?
> 
> ...


I'm a huge believer that the chemicals our brains release when sexual or emotional arousal occurs dictates our decision making process and that's why it's so important to set boundaries and be proactive in limiting contact. When people aren't on the drug they would never walk away, but given consistent dopamine hits from someone else and they rewrite history.


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I have never turned my husband down for sex. I am the one who comes onto to him most of the time. I share my feelings with my husband as much as I do my therapist. He knows how bad his actions have hurt me because I have told him. I share all my emotions with him. I think people like to assume there must be something horribly wrong with the marriage, but the fact is cheating happens to people in happy marriages too.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Marriage is a long slog. Let's face it. Some people just do not have the endurance. 

Cheating is nothing more than a symptom of an inherent inner weakness.


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I do think emotional connection and cuddling and friendship and more important than sex. That does not mean I am not putting out. I have never rejected my husband's advances. In fact, he wanted me to get a boob job so I did. My husband is spoiled rotten and I think i probably do too much for him.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

helenbean said:


> I do think emotional connection and cuddling and friendship and more important than sex. That does not mean I am not putting out. I have never rejected my husband's advances. In fact, he wanted me to get a boob job so I did. My husband is spoiled rotten and I think i probably do too much for him.



Do you ever initiate? Do you make him feel desired? Or are you 100% responsive? Do you think the OW made him feel desired?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Yes Helen claims to initiate most of the time. It's hard to imagine with a person who does not prioritize sex. But that is the claim. But that is not the point.

The point is she and both husbands agree that they were happy in the relationship when both the husband's infidelity started. 

On the other hand When my EA feelings started, I was not happy. My EA was very one sided. Or at least the object of my affection resisted my interest very well.


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I don't see my therapist that often. In fact I sawI her once for the ea. She tried to suggest it was physical as well and I just don't believe that it was. My husband has a low sex drive and he turns me down often. I have found that he enjoys blow jobs more than sex and he is less likely to turn those down. I do feel rejected at times. I have shared this with him. I recently had breast augmentation to please him. Thought maybe he would come onto me more. I am thin and people tell me I look 10 years younger than my age. I can't compete with a 20-30 year old, but compared to women my own age I am smoking hot. I am 47. I take care of myself. I just think my husband has low testosterone. He has night sweats and other symptoms, but he won't see a doc for this. I can live with the lack of sex as long as there is cuddling, quality time together, etc. He is very affectionate otherwise. He gives me lots of attention (now that the affair has ended. He withdrew from me while he was hanging out with this "friend"). I get flowers often. He himself admits that he is spoiled. Before he started hanging out with the coworker he said he was "very happy". While he was seeing her he said we had lousy communicatiion. Now that the affair has ended he says our communication is better.


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## hospitality (Feb 24, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> How long has she been married to the OM? She sounds like a selfish woman to me - to have an extended affair EA/PA - she didn't have to rug sweep she was leaving him. Did your friend ever heal from such a grotesque betrayal?


Yes he did and is very very happy. His new wife is ten years younger than his old wife, she is hot as hell, is a sexual beast, is totally into him and they have two awesome kids. He totally upgraded and his career exploded to bad for his ex!!! Down side is she really isn't friends with my wife so as couples we really don't do much as couples like we did with his ex and I wish he had played the field longer but he immediately found someone great and grabbed her just about eight years ago..


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

hospitality said:


> Yes he did and is very very happy. His new wife is ten years younger than his old wife, she is hot as hell, is a sexual beast, is totally into him and they have two awesome kids. He totally upgraded and his career exploded to bad for his ex!!! Down side is she really isn't friends with my wife so as couples we really don't do much as couples like we did with his ex and I wish he had played the field longer but he immediately found someone great and grabbed her just about eight years ago..


Good to hear and how is the XW with the OM doing? I wish those two all the misery in the world...>


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

No affair is the product of troubled marriage. All affairs are the product of two selfish people - the WS and the OM/OW - who lack character and empathy.

Unhappy with your marriage? Tell your spouse, try to work it out, and if you can't, leave.


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

When we were first married (four years ago) sex was several times a day. While he was seeing the other woman there was no sex at all. Now he is doing a little better. When I tell him i feel rejected he says he is sorry it's just that he is tired all the time. He is a cuddler though and very affectionate otherwise which to me is more important than sex imo. 

The breast augmentation was his idea. I never would have done it otherwise. I like the results, but I never was unhappy with my appearance before. It never crossed my mind once before he brought it up. The ow is flat chested. 

We can talk about most things openly without arguing. The only argument was over the ow. I immediately complained when he went out to four hour breakfasts with her. I thought it was inappropriate. Breakfast or lunch with a coworker should be about an hour to an hour and a half. He accused me of being controlling and said he felt like he was in prison. I asked to go along and meet this woman. He said "no way." I suggested we go to marriage counseling to solve the issue over whether i was being controlling or he was being inappropriate. He said we could go but we couldn't talk about ow. That in my mind tells me he knew he was wrong and just didn't want to face it or stop his behavior.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

Relationship troubles or not, everyone can benefit by self reflection and self improvement. We can try to better on our end of the relationship. But that's not the point.

However, good or bad, you can't prevent your spouse from having an affair. You don't control anyone else, and if they blame you for their actions it's only because they lack the character to own up to their own poor choices.


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## lost in Iowa (Jul 6, 2015)

hospitality said:


> I'm going to post exclusively on why good people in good relationships cheat.
> 
> Someone once wrote, "affairs are like fog, they move in very very slowly!" Social media and coed work environments have completely destroyed boundaries for lots of married couples. Perfectly happy people find themselves having lunch with beautiful people five days per week, sitting on the couch interacting with the opposite sex via FB discussing legitimate topics and spending hundreds of hours together with the opposite sex via social media, work related trips or work related social activities.
> 
> ...


A lot of truth here, my wife's EA was pretty much like you described. If someone asked my before I found out, I would say we have a good marriage. I have asked her many times since finding out about her EA, "why did you do it, and why did you not talk to me?" Her response, was " I did not think, taking to a man on the internet was cheating." She realizes it was a stupid thing too do and it could have cost her our marriage. But when she was talking to him for four years, she did not see it as wrong. They only met once, did not have sex, he was a friend. Now she looks back and realizes what she did, she is really doubting her self worth, "how could I not see what I was doing was wrong, how could I send nude photos of myself to someone I had never met?" But she did not, the fog of an affair is very strong and the ability to deny it, is very real and a strong emotion to overcome.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

helenbean said:


> I do think emotional connection and cuddling and friendship and more important than sex. That does not mean I am not putting out. I have never rejected my husband's advances. In fact, he wanted me to get a boob job so I did. My husband is spoiled rotten and I think i probably do too much for him.


Suz, is that you baby?  Uppps, sorry Helen; I caught up with my reading the thread.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I have never turned my husband down for sex. I am the one who comes onto to him most of the time. I share my feelings with my husband as much as I do my therapist. He knows how bad his actions have hurt me because I have told him. I share all my emotions with him. I think people like to assume there must be something horribly wrong with the marriage, but the fact is cheating happens to people in happy marriages too.


You don't have anything to prove to us. You are right: people cheat in happy marriages. So, has your WH acknowledged the wrongs he has done so that he can start working on fixing himself and making himself a safe partner for you? Has he become transparent with regard to email, phone, Facebook etc (WITHOUT having an opportunity to delete first)?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Helen B, what were the consequences for you WH when he has this EA or maybe PA? Were there any? What stops him from repeating the same thing again?


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

He tells me he is not going to have any more female friends. He says I am too jealous. He says he is lucky to have me. I told him tonight that i was going to go to marriage counseling alone and asked him for the contact information through his work. I told him i wanted to figure out how I can communicate better so he doesn't go outside our marriage looking to have his needs met. He told me that he is "very happy" with the way things are and that I didn't need to do that. He acts very happy again and very tuned in. I told him that i was very close to leaving him when he was seeing the ow. He knows this and I think that knowledge will prevent him from behaving the same way again. I don't think he had a physical affair. I do not believe that he talked to this ow romantically. I do think he leaned on her for emotional support which is a betrayal according to my therapist. He never hid the relationship and when he called her on the phone I could hear their conversation. It was not romantic, but it was emotionally inappropriate. I asked to go along to one of these breakfasts with her and hubby said "no way." When he said that I told him i was leaving him. He told this to the ow. She started avoiding him after that and he never saw her again. I am not 100% certain that's why the relationship ended. Maybe she just became interested in someone else or maybe she realized that leaning on a married man for emotional support was causing problems in his marriage and she didn't want to do that.


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## whiteviper (Aug 8, 2015)

helenbean said:


> He says I am too jealous.


He had an affair and now you're jealous ? Does this guy have common sense ?



helenbean said:


> I told him tonight that i was going to go to marriage counseling alone and asked him for the contact information through his work. I told him i wanted to figure out how I can communicate better so he doesn't go outside our marriage looking to have his needs met.


But what about your needs @helenbean ? 
Wouldn't it be nice if it's about you too not just his needs ? 
Have you told him about your needs, did he respond ?
Marriage is for two people, it's not all about him it should be about you too ! You're not just a mere needs fulfiller, you have needs too. He is the one who had an EA and now you're prioritizing his needs seems very unbalanced and unfair, especially when he said that there was nothing wrong about your marriage before EA. If his heart is in the right path he'd at least try to fix himself and figure out why he did what he did and examine pieces by pieces not jut focusing on his needs.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hospitality's depiction of work place sanctioned affairs is very accurate. 

Companies demand team loyalty from employees to realize business goals.

Male and female team members who are wedded by a project for 6 months are very vulnerable.

In a large company a logistics quality analyst who is brilliant at software may be seen as boring nerdy husband by his wife. She loves him as a beta partner friend and co-parent, but she has little attraction to him as a man. When he is suddenly working with the talented young woman in packaging design and the two of them create tens of millions of dollars in value annually, winning praise from management, it's not a surprize that sooner or later while at some hotel it happens.

The company wanted them to bond, praised them for doing it, and then provided them with a non financial reward.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I would greatly venture to say that, with rare exception, most marriages ~ whether they are good or bad, happy or turbulent or generally whatever ~ all, to a greater or lesser degree, start out like there's going to be no tomorrow! That it is literally heaven reincarnated!

As time evolves, one would naturally think that the members of a progressively unhappy marriage are the preeminent targets of a chasm which in turn would lead them to stray because of the sexual failure of their union. The vast majority of these are the ones that are so targeted for infidelity!

But even those exceedingly lovey-dovey happy marriages that continue on that way for years and years are certainly not exempt from the pangs of infidelity as it takes a bare minimum of stimuli to achieve its sordid ends, like a guy getting a lap dance performed on him at a strip club that leads to other accoutrements, or even a gal reconnecting with a high school BF on FB and then ends up reconnecting with him physically in some suburban hotel room because she wants to secretly feel what she felt from him so many years prior!

The victims of infidelity are many and it can strike at a moments notice or even instantly to those who least expect it!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I wonder if some people are *predisposed* to cheat, no matter how good their marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have come to think of it as more of low character which can make people justifiers. So in their own mind cheating isn't bad. It's amazing to me what people can justify as ok. And agree 100% people in good marriages can cheat. Some will never be able to be happy where they are at


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

My H said he was very happy in our marriage 12 days before he found his EA partner. Then, all of a sudden I was the wife that was asking too much of him...I have NEVER asked my H for anything other than him being loyal faithful and honest to me. I don't want material things, I don't want him to make more money, I don't want anything that he doesn't want. I have never asked for those things. All I wanted was him. Yet, somehow I became the wife that was trying to "change" him. 

Uh we're married. You're not supposed to be sleeping with other people, it's kind of the rule we had! I didn't realize that made me a wife asking for too much from him. The fog sure can make them come up with some stupid sh*t.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

poida said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> A total lack of remorse and false R whilst continuing to cheat is by far the biggest mind f^ck you can possible submit someone to.
> 
> That is what really screwed me up.


yup . in my case , not affair , or at least not that I know , but financial cheating .

I cant understand false reconciliation . complete waste of my time . after my divorce , still cant understand .

To me , it is either you love or not love . either you are in a marriage or out .

yup , it is a mind f8ck .

but once I am out , it feels good that I am not being mind f8uck anymore .


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Rowan said:


> I was (unknowingly) married to a serial cheater. In his case, and I think it may be a common mindset of serial cheaters, whether or not the marriage was happy was never even part of the equation. Our marriage was entirely separate in his mind from his affairs. The two planes did not intersect in any way. He actually said that several times to one of our marriage counselors - back when I thought it was just the one affair I'd caught him in. He simply believed - with an unquestioning and soul deep certainty - that anything that I didn't know could not possibly hurt me, and that whatever he did when I wasn't with him was literally absolutely none of my business.


OMG

He said that .

so you can cheat too 

sometimes I wish I can cheat so that I can hurt my spouse back .

but I realize I will hurt myself more , and hurt my self-respect and principles , worse still , hurt the way my children will look at me .


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I don't see my therapist that often. In fact I sawI her once for the ea. She tried to suggest it was physical as well and I just don't believe that it was. My husband has a low sex drive and he turns me down often. I have found that he enjoys blow jobs more than sex and he is less likely to turn those down. I do feel rejected at times. I have shared this with him. I recently had breast augmentation to please him. Thought maybe he would come onto me more. I am thin and people tell me I look 10 years younger than my age. I can't compete with a 20-30 year old, but compared to women my own age I am smoking hot. I am 47. I take care of myself. I just think my husband has low testosterone. He has night sweats and other symptoms, but he won't see a doc for this. I can live with the lack of sex as long as there is cuddling, quality time together, etc. He is very affectionate otherwise. He gives me lots of attention (now that the affair has ended. He withdrew from me while he was hanging out with this "friend"). I get flowers often. He himself admits that he is spoiled. Before he started hanging out with the coworker he said he was "very happy". While he was seeing her he said we had lousy communicatiion. Now that the affair has ended he says our communication is better.


I think he is selfish prick.

affair ended and he thinks you are ok , like he is the king ?

I wont take that sh't

you are too nice


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> My H said he was very happy in our marriage 12 days before he found his EA partner. Then, all of a sudden I was the wife that was asking too much of him...I have NEVER asked my H for anything other than him being loyal faithful and honest to me. I don't want material things, I don't want him to make more money, I don't want anything that he doesn't want. I have never asked for those things. All I wanted was him. Yet, somehow I became the wife that was trying to "change" him.
> 
> Uh we're married. You're not supposed to be sleeping with other people, it's kind of the rule we had! I didn't realize that made me a wife asking for too much from him. The fog sure can make them come up with some stupid sh*t.


Funny how that happens huh. My x did this huge letter on Facebook for my birthday in October about how I was the greatest husband and best father and how lucky she was. November she meets her EA and PA partner and decided to divorce me for him and then in December I'm suddenly controlling, uncaring, non communicative, threatening. 

Funny how the WS likes to rewrite history to suit their own needs huh. This is why It always cracks me up when WS claim they were unhappy when they cheated...were they or were they actually just being selfish and trying to justify


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I wonder if some people are predisposed to cheat, no matter how good their marriage?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I truly believe yes. 

"Attention and Compliments" cheaters abound here, there, and everywhere. Some people want/need that crap so bad, they get sucked in like a turbine engine.


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## helenbean (Aug 13, 2015)

I agree their whole perspective does shift once they are flirting with someone else. As soon as the ow started avoiding my hubby and he stopped getting her attention I was once again wonderful.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

helenbean said:


> I agree their whole perspective does shift once they are flirting with someone else. As soon as the ow started avoiding my hubby and he stopped getting her attention I was once again wonderful.


He will do that to you again.

Plan ahead ?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It seems to me that situations where people cheat when they are supposedly happy are much worse, because if they're happy there's nothing to deal with other than the fact that they're selfish. At least if there's a known issue you might be able to address it.

But some might disagree with me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> It seems to me that situations where people cheat when they are supposedly happy are much worse, because if they're happy there's nothing to deal with other than the fact that they're selfish. At least if there's a known issue you might be able to address it.
> 
> But some might disagree with me.


You're not wrong.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> My H said he was very happy in our marriage 12 days before he found his EA partner. Then, all of a sudden I was the wife that was asking too much of him...I have NEVER asked my H for anything other than him being loyal faithful and honest to me. I don't want material things, I don't want him to make more money, I don't want anything that he doesn't want. I have never asked for those things. All I wanted was him. Yet, somehow I became the wife that was trying to "change" him.
> 
> Uh we're married. You're not supposed to be sleeping with other people, it's kind of the rule we had! I didn't realize that made me a wife asking for too much from him. The fog sure can make them come up with some stupid sh*t.


*They sure as hell always seem to have trouble, perhaps out of good, old self-serving convenience,
of remembering the words/content of their marriage vows that were uttered so long ago in time.

And greatly to the point that they just don't carry any further meaning or weight to them, or to anybody else for that matter! 

At least that's what their jaded, self-serving mindset always seems to tell them!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Other reasons SELFISHNESS and OPPORTUNITY


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> My son's father is like this. He thought it was his right to cheat. When I mentioned his cheating to his mother, she said that all men cheat so I needed to put up with it
> 
> He grew up with a father who openly cheated. He learned that lesson well.


My first serious relationship and boyfriend had this perspective. He was the son of the OW which had been ongoing before he was born. He cheated on me with another girl and told me. He was expecting me to accept it. I dumped him. Many years later, he tried to get me back. I'm glad that is over. Too much drama and it would have been devastating had I remained in that relationship.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

helenbean said:


> I do think he leaned on her for emotional support which is a betrayal according to my therapist.


Is it a betrayal according to you? It's your marriage, not your therapist.


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