# Fooled me once, how about twice? (long)



## Despair (Aug 22, 2011)

Im coming here today for some input. 

I was in a previous relationship of 8 years which included the birth of my child. My SO was always loving but we always had some sort of issues. 2-3 times I had caught her talking with other men and promptly slapped a NC agreement on it. The last time this happened it was with a previous EX of hers through -Facebook- which despite my efforts ended in a disaster and us splitting finally. 

At that time, I did not do the 180. I was your typical guy who thought it was my fault and was beta to the extreme. Afterwards I learned to get over it, with time, and straightened myself out. I had my own house and purchased a new car, bought everything for my child (for myself and her), and started working on my physical appearance. I started dating again (had one relationship a few months long but ended due to tons of red flags) and this is when she took notice of me once more. At first, I declined any relationship with her due to not being over the anger of the last time around. She tried for at least two months and this is when I told her to get some responsibility in her life. To stand on her own, to clean herself up, and to not be involved with anybody else. These were things that were/helped the downfall to the last relationship before I ended it. She had no job, did not help with the house work or my child, and was in a EA/PA. Things had to change before I would put myself out there again and I stood my ground. 

After that, she did get on her feet. She had a job, got a working car, had cleaned herself up. In the time it took her to get things rolling with this we both kept contact with each other and talked about issues we had. How to make a better relationship for ourselves and how to create a better home environment for our child etc etc. We discussed how things had to be an open book between us and she verbally stated how this would be ok. 

So now we were off to a good start, or so I thought. Along with her new responsibilities she purchased a new phone, even though her old phone was working with no issues. This new phone however was a smartphone which could access internet, text, apps, messengers, the works. I thought nothing of it, perhaps the old phone was going bad but I never asked. So the following week/s I asked her if she would like to try our relationship again. She didnt. 

Okay, so at this point the previous two weeks we had been spending a lot of time together, getting food, movies, at the park. I was wanting to see if she was on the up and up and it was absolutely great! So why did she decline me now? Well I guess it was the list of demands so to say I made for her. She felt like I was saying she wasnt good enough which I guess I could see in a certain light but I did not mean like that. I just wanted a person who was going to be able to help me because I wasnt going into a relationship doing 100% of the work again. She also spoke of privacy, how it offended her to have to share everything. We talked about and agree upon if I wanted to see something that I wouldnt need her passwords/login but would ask for her to login herself so I could see it. I also said I wouldnt snoop as she made it clear that she didnt want me too. 

It was at that point I started to feel like I was going back to beta and promptly ignored it. We quit hanging out and talking much. I made it clear to her that I was not wanting to hear from her unless it was about our child. After a week, she started up again about missing me. After a few days, I proceeded with caution. Though I will admit that I no longer held up the 'not going to snoop' due to us breaking off for that short period of time. 

So now, its been two months since all of that. First month was great, no real issues or red flags. The only thing I could think of that would of been a flag was that darn phone. It was practically glued to her hand and never really left out for anybody to see. This did bug me, but I never let her know it. Now the second month seems to be a different issue, we split our child week to week. At this point we decided to not live together. So - It would seem on her weeks she isnt as text happy, affection seems to calm down a bit, she is usually always sick/shopping, and sometimes doesnt seem to want to be with each other.

Now, I am a bit on the paranoid side and prior to becoming involved with her, also to be sure what Im saying is correct if needed, I have kept a log of day to day activities since we started our relationship again. This helps me keep track of how we spend our time together if we do at all, moods, red flags, sexual activity, and other tid bits. Perhaps a bit extreme of me, I just like covering my bases because my memory is not the best and I want to make sure Im not blowing anything up that is not needed. With this I have noticed in the past weeks patterns have started. When she does not have our child, text slows down majorly, we hang out less, she puts make-up on more, she is more on the move, and less affection is displayed. 

So I went into bloodhound mode, something Im not proud of but I want to know if there is something I need to be aware of. Now at this point, I have no true dishonest behavior so I expected to find nothing. What I found were some text msgs that were not in her address book, but she seemed to know who she was speaking with none the less which stood out to me. The only reason I dismissed these texts is because they were just friendly text and I had no clue if it was a woman/man on the other side. One stated they hadnt heard from them in a month, others talked about their jobs, and another I cant remember. I documented all these numbers, none of them were the same.

Well about a week after I did this, I left the phone alone. Being that she was a repeat offender I figured if she had something to hide to let things play out. The next time I checked both text and call log was wiped clean, which could of been due to memory space or something to hide. I have continued to check her phone, no new text, no out of the ordinary phone calls made. I laid off the phone again, made sure to wipe my prints and put it back the same as I found it as to not make them suspicious. 

Now last week was her week off and I noticed the same behavior pattern still but this time, before we would meet up I noticed she always had a mint smell to her mouth. The only reason this stood out was because it didnt matter if it was afternoon, evening, morning - she had just popped a mint or brushed her teeth which never happened before. So I waited to see if it would happen again on the following day and it did. I checked the phone that night.

What I noticed was a single text that was talking about her bank, how this unknown person noticed her and promised they were stalking them. It was a guy obviously, she texted them back almost instantly. I took to long looking at the text log and time stamps to check the phone log before I had to put the phone down. Weird part was the number was not listed in the address book but they knew who it was and it was more then just two text back and forth. It wouldnt peak my interest but she has only had this phone for 3/4 months. Two of which we have been together, the rest we had been talking/working out the foundation of a relationship. Afterwards I waited two days and checked the phone again, she deleted that text and only that text. For awhile there has only been text from me, her mother, and a close friend of hers left for viewing. Same for the call log.

So, I checked her FB friend list to see who worked at her bank and I found the guy. Yet another EX I know of that was before our eight year relationship. So now I see a red flag, Im conflicted on what to do at this point. 

Last time:
FB friend
Lots of private convos
She was very private and had a few emails
She lied about everything

This time:
FB friend
One convo seen
She is private and I have no way of tracking history with a cell
Unknown if she is lying just yet

I feel like I have been down this path once before. Now, I havent said a word to her about any of this and I have put on my happy face whenever I am with them. I really want to give this relationship a good try but Im not willing to do it in this manner. I gave the whole story so I could get the best possible opinion on this matter. Im seriously thinking to saying to hell with it, but what if it was truly nothing? 

I need some grounding at this point before my head pops. I dont want to just jump on this and look stupid later ya know.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I would have to move on myself she is still up to her old tricks in my opinion
Their are too many decent other folks out their 
Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I would move on simply because she`s opposed to transparency.
You need no other reason after what she did.

Drop it, you`re only asking for heartache.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

She's a cheater. She proved it to you the last time around. Who's to say use isn't trying to cheat on some other guy with you now?
If my ex had been providing me with all the goodies that you say you have after splitting, I would want to restart, too.
Good Luck


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## Despair (Aug 22, 2011)

In_The_Wind said:


> I would have to move on myself she is still up to her old tricks in my opinion
> Their are too many decent other folks out their
> Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And this is what I am thinking as well.



tacoma said:


> I would move on simply because she`s opposed to transparency.
> You need no other reason after what she did.
> 
> Drop it, you`re only asking for heartache.


I was thinking of bringing it back up for discussion and putting this text on the table to see if she was really in this relationship or just try to bull****. Im the type that would accept honesty about something that could be hurtful over being dishonest about something thats nothing. She was bad about lying, I just think if she was to just admit to it if asked that it wouldnt be so bad?



hookares said:


> She's a cheater. She proved it to you the last time around. Who's to say use isn't trying to cheat on some other guy with you now?
> If my ex had been providing me with all the goodies that you say you have after splitting, I would want to restart, too.
> Good Luck


I didnt understand what you meant by restart?


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

My opinion is if you have serious concerns and doubts about her it might be best that you stay away from her. I do believe people can change but it doesn't seem there has been enough time or evidence that she has changed. It is also my opinion that red flags just don't appear for no reason.

Good luck.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

She wants you AND all the other stuff and still believes despite your actions that she can have that. I went through this. It is not to do with you. Without transparency there is no way forward. When she speaks of her "private life" what is it she means.. Ask her.
Advanced cake eater.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Dude, trust your gut. The behaviour is suspicious and you aren't getting a contrite FWW. Do you really want to be in a relationship that doesn't feel secure, where you are half paranoid, but probably right? 

I went through that kind of a phase which lead to a second break up for almost a year from my wife. It wasn't until I was finally done and said enough is enough, that she emotionally came back. 

I would back away immediately and tell her, "You're acting funny, I don't trust you, I don't want this relationship." Just be direct. She'll get defensive and ask what proof you have. Just tell her, "My gut is telling me you aren't being honest or committed to this. It was a mistake to reconcile."


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

"I didn't understand what you meant by restart?"

Mine was cheating for two decades. After the three guys she was with post divorce dumped her, she came around to see if I would take her back. Seems she missed the financial security.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Despair said:


> Afterwards I learned to get over it, with time, and straightened myself out. I had my own house and purchased a new car, bought everything for my child (for myself and her), and started working on my physical appearance. I started dating again (had one relationship a few months long but ended due to tons of red flags) and this is when she took notice of me once more. At first, I declined any relationship with her due to not being over the anger of the last time around. She tried for at least two months and this is when I told her to get some responsibility in her life. To stand on her own, to clean herself up, and to not be involved with anybody else. These were things that were/helped the downfall to the last relationship before I ended it. She had no job, did not help with the house work or my child, and was in a EA/PA. Things had to change before I would put myself out there again and I stood my ground.





Despair said:


> At this point we decided to not live together.


Wait a minute, do you mean to tell me that after the two of you broke up, she was allowed to live at your house and be fully supported by you (she did not have to work, clean the house or take care of the child) while she dated others? LOL!!! You are kidding right? That cannot be true. No one is that much of a doormat. OMG no wonder she does not respect you, and no wonder she cannot love you; she cannot love someone that she does not respect. She, with your help, gives new meaning to the term “cake eater”.

Instead of calling yourself “Despair” you should rename yourself “Meal Ticket”.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Irrespective of whether she is cheating or not, he does not trust her enough(her fault) and she wouldn't do enough to regain her trust(open access). No point in getting together


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## Despair (Aug 22, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> Dude, trust your gut. The behaviour is suspicious and you aren't getting a contrite FWW. Do you really want to be in a relationship that doesn't feel secure, where you are half paranoid, but probably right?
> 
> I went through that kind of a phase which lead to a second break up for almost a year from my wife. It wasn't until I was finally done and said enough is enough, that she emotionally came back.
> 
> I would back away immediately and tell her, "You're acting funny, I don't trust you, I don't want this relationship." Just be direct. She'll get defensive and ask what proof you have. Just tell her, "My gut is telling me you aren't being honest or committed to this. It was a mistake to reconcile."


Well really I wanted to confront her but first see if anybody was thinking like I was which... a lot of you were. 



hookares said:


> "I didn't understand what you meant by restart?"
> 
> Mine was cheating for two decades. After the three guys she was with post divorce dumped her, she came around to see if I would take her back. Seems she missed the financial security.


I wanted to just press a reset button, some of which cant be reset of course, but did not want to go in with ill feelings.



TRy said:


> Wait a minute, do you mean to tell me that after the two of you broke up, she was allowed to live at your house and be fully supported by you (she did not have to work, clean the house or take care of the child) while she dated others? LOL!!! You are kidding right? That cannot be true. No one is that much of a doormat. OMG no wonder she does not respect you, and no wonder she cannot love you; she cannot love someone that she does not respect. She, with your help, gives new meaning to the term “cake eater”.
> 
> Instead of calling yourself “Despair” you should rename yourself “Meal Ticket”.


Erm, I see how you could take it that way but no. Once I broke it off the first, I instantly had her stuff gone and we had been apart for a year.



warlock07 said:


> Irrespective of whether she is cheating or not, he does not trust her enough(her fault) and she wouldn't do enough to regain her trust(open access). No point in getting together


I believe that may be the missing link. 

I have the option to request this, to see if she instantly gives me open access or declines.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

It might be wise to test her, but even if she gives you immediate access it could simply be that she had wiped the evidence prior.

Here's what I know: I've felt suspicious and I've felt transparency. Once my wife was truly transparent, I lost my desire to snoop. I did almost a 10 months of what you are describing, and felt sick in my gut the whole time. 

When she's truely transparent, you'll feel it. Until then, beware.


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## Despair (Aug 22, 2011)

seeking sanity said:


> It might be wise to test her, but even if she gives you immediate access it could simply be that she had wiped the evidence prior.
> 
> Here's what I know: I've felt suspicious and I've felt transparency. Once my wife was truly transparent, I lost my desire to snoop. I did almost a 10 months of what you are describing, and felt sick in my gut the whole time.
> 
> When she's truely transparent, you'll feel it. Until then, beware.


Im am going forth with testing her. I know the feeling that you are talking about, and yes, I will beware til then. Thanks.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Can you live in this relationship, dude?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

AngryandUsed said:


> Can you live in this relationship, dude?


Exactly, do you honestly see your self playing Mr Detective for the rest of your life with her? that's not how relationships are supposed to be.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So she's obviously taking steps to hide the guy and the conversation - and you say there is a pattern to her behavior - have you thought about popping by unannounced the next time you predict the pattern is set to happen? 

It sounds like you suspect she's spending time with him?

She's now cleaning her breath a lot - has she taken up smoking - that might explain the breath issues.

Does she understand that you expect her to be exclusive with you at this point?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What significance do you see in the breath mints?


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

chapparal said:


> What significance do you see in the breath mints?


It demonstrates an unusual effort to be attractive. Any new behaviour is a red flag. Dressing better, wearing sexy underwear, different routines, cell phone locked and never out of her sight.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

bandit.45 said:


> Post BJ breath maybe?:scratchhead:


Does that kind of sh*tty comment really help anyone?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Its looks really clear to me that she is putting two live in there own space (compartialmentalize) (can't spell).

Its not good to have a relationship with someone that has two different life styles. Especially when you can't get involved with her other life b/c she wants her privacy.

I think she is not relationship material, she would make a great f0ck buddy. She wants the security and stability of a marriage but doesn't want to pay the price for it. In her world she can have both a commited relationship and be single and never have to answer to the responsablities of either one.

It looks like she want to be single but doesn't want to pay the dues of being alone or have the *sole* responseablity of taking care of her self. On the other hand she wants a commited relationship that has the security of having someone take care of her.

I think there is a mental disorder for this kind of cake eating?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

seeking sanity said:


> Does that kind of sh*tty comment really help anyone?


OK, I deleted it Mr. Sensitivity.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's just my 2 cents. 

On the one hand, it is entirely possible you may have some serious trust issues. For example, the fact that someone brushes their teeth or eats a mint before seeing you does not necessarily lead to "they are hiding something!" Could be she wants to have fresh breath around you. 

On the other hand, it seems reasonable for you to have trust issues with a person who has broken your trust, and then continues to behave in a way that is untrustworthy. Do her words and actions match? Nope. Her words say "I want to be with only you" but her actions say "I'm hiding something from you" so for this person...it is reasonable to not trust her!

Thus, what it comes down to is this: are you willing to live with someone whom you don't trust and who has made it clear they are not willing to live in a way that builds trust? I personally am not. I'm willing to live with someone who makes a mistake, sees their mistake, and then does an "about face" and acts differently. I'm willing to forgive someone if they realize it was wrong and they demonstrate change by... changing! But I won't have a partner in my life who won't give 100% of their *affection *and *loyalty *to me...*100%*. 

So what do you think? You willing to take less than 100%?


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## Despair (Aug 22, 2011)

the guy said:


> Its looks really clear to me that she is putting two live in there own space (compartialmentalize) (can't spell).
> 
> Its not good to have a relationship with someone that has two different life styles. Especially when you can't get involved with her other life b/c she wants her privacy.
> 
> ...


This is how I view her in this relationship, almost word for word. 



Complexity said:


> Exactly, do you honestly see your self playing Mr Detective for the rest of your life with her? that's not how relationships are supposed to be.


No I do not. 

I went through and asked her to be transparent with me, she said yes that we can do so. Day later, she reversed that and I broke it off. Im not up for being a Detective, I already have one job. She viewed it as me being controlling and wanting to pick who she talked too which I believe to be flinging the blame onto me so to speak. Oh well, guess I wont have my family complete but I still have my son at least.


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## Despair (Aug 22, 2011)

chapparal said:


> What significance do you see in the breath mints?


It only happens on her weeks off from our child and it just started recently, seemed like a red flag to me. 



Affaircare said:


> Here's just my 2 cents.
> 
> On the one hand, it is entirely possible you may have some serious trust issues. For example, the fact that someone brushes their teeth or eats a mint before seeing you does not necessarily lead to "they are hiding something!" Could be she wants to have fresh breath around you.
> 
> ...


Reading this makes me feel a bit better breaking it off with her. You are correct, I am not willing to take less then 100%. I wanted the transparent topic mainly to build trust as I do have trust issues with her. Its no longer a issue I guess though, thank you for your input none the less.


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