# I don't know why this bothers me...



## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

My wife and I have been talking about trying new things. 

No, wait. That's not accurate. I've been talking about trying new things with my wife. 

We have these kinds of conversations about twice a year. They tend to end up in the same place: I suggest something, she tells me in no uncertain terms that she's not interested in my suggestion but will try if I'm interested, which makes me more than a little angry. I get frustrated about asking for anything out of the norm because I get the same answer every time... "I'm not interested but I'll try if you want me to."

I'm I right in being bothered by this, or should I just shut up and appreciate that fact that she says she's willing to try at all?


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Being bothered isn't right or wrong... it is how you feel. I guess it depends on how it all plays out. Do suggestions ever get tried? Does it change up the sex life some? If so.... just go with it. If not... I don't know, try another tactic.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> "I'm not interested ."


Yes this would bug me... especially if it was a regular thing.

Even if H hasn't has much thought of something... I'd hope he was 'interested' in my words/suggestion/discussion.

It may just be a poor choice of words... you think? Or does she often seem 'not interested' in your ideas/thoughts?


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Which would you rather have? "Hell no, don't bring it up again!" Or "Not something I'm interested in, but I'm willing if you want to."

It sounds like what you want to hear is, "OMG what a fabulous idea! I love it, lets go!"

Someone needs to be the initiator, the instigator, the bringer of new and untried things to a relationship. He lack of enthusiasm for a new idea doesn't mean it will always remain thus. After bringing in a few new things, she learns that she actually can enjoy something that originally didn't do anything for her. Then SHE learns to let her imagination run wild and she starts bringing in new ideas.

So, don't worry about it, go buy the hand cuffs and ball gag.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> My wife and I have been talking about trying new things.
> 
> No, wait. That's not accurate. I've been talking about trying new things with my wife.
> 
> ...


I would be willing to bet that if you suggested something new that she wanted to try she would give you the same answer...

She probably dosn't want you to think she is too kinky, thus the same answer....

I would take "I'll try if you want me to" to be a "yes" she just dosn't want to appear too foreward....

Don't over think the issue...


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Which would you rather have? "Hell no, don't bring it up again!" Or "Not something I'm interested in, but I'm willing if you want to."
> 
> It sounds like what you want to hear is, "OMG what a fabulous idea! I love it, lets go!"


 Well... Yeah, kinda. It be nice to hear "hey, that sounds like fun! I'll go get the Jell-O while you bring in the wading pool." I mean, show a little enthusiasm once in a while.


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## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

If you are lucky, the new fun will bring a little enthusiasm and maybe much more in the future. Ya gotta start somewhere.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> Well... Yeah, kinda. It be nice to hear "hey, that sounds like fun! I'll go get the Jell-O while you bring in the wading pool." I mean, show a little enthusiasm once in a while.


Hah, I get you on that!

Little known fact. The first time a woman goes down on a man, (shes a BJ virgin) she is revolted by the very idea, shes smart enough not make it visible though. But, once she's done it, she realizes it's not so bad and in fact it's kind of cool how excited he got. The second time she does it, she's still a little revolted, but she's thinking...he's gonna like this a lot! From then on, she is more enthusiastic because she knows how much it turns him on.

Yeah... jello...wading pool... Who's gonna clean that mess up!


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

SunnyT said:


> Being bothered isn't right or wrong... it is how you feel. I guess it depends on how it all plays out. Do suggestions ever get tried? Does it change up the sex life some? If so.... just go with it. If not... I don't know, try another tactic.


 A small handful have been tried. Only one minor thing has been successfully added to the repertoire. Most of the things I try will blow up in my face, mostly due to her reticence. For example, one time I suggested going to an adult store. She agreed with caveats: we had to go in the minivan I drive because its less conspicuous and we had to go under the cover of darkness so she wouldn't give any of our friends the idea that she has a sex life.

Because of stuff like that, when she is CLEARLY uncomfortable with trying something different, even when she does say she'll try it for my sake its kind of hard for me to take seriously. Now it's to the point where I will drop idea quickly or don't bother asking at all because I know what the response will be.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

SunnyT said:


> Being bothered isn't right or wrong... it is how you feel. I guess it depends on how it all plays out. Do suggestions ever get tried? Does it change up the sex life some? If so.... just go with it. If not... I don't know, try another tactic.


:iagree:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> Because of stuff like that, when she is CLEARLY uncomfortable with trying something different, even when she does say she'll try it for my sake its kind of hard for me to take seriously. Now it's to the point where I will drop idea quickly or don't bother asking at all because I know what the response will be.


HALT!

I'm gonna take your woman's side because I was the same way when I was younger. I have since learned to get my freak on openly and happily and am the go to girl for friends STILL too afraid to shop in toy stores themselves.

Lemme tell ya a story about a young woman who kinda liked sex but had hang ups. Those hang ups shut down her H. Sex became routine, boring, predictable and we, I mean they eventually only had maintenance sex. 17 years of THAT! It was the girl who realized she was beginning to pass out of her prime, she was pushing 40 and had already peaked, so the experts say! She embarked on a crusade to learn to have better sex and be more open about it. She is now freakier than her H! Although he willingly tags along...though doesn't like anything that chafes...

Dont let her reticence dampen your enthusiasm. Enthusiasm is contagious! Girls are supposed to be pure and virtuous and then all of a sudden we have to leave all that behind! It just doesn't work that way for a LOT of women. We have to LEARN to let go and be the sexual beings we were born to be! You can teach her!

She is willing to learn from you. She is willing to let you lead her into a wonderful freaky fun filled sex life. She isn't saying no, she is saying she is timid and afraid. She is saying she doesn't know how to reconcile being the good girl with the sexual woman. How to be the soccer Mom in the minivan and the sex goddess in the toy store. The two images don't mesh. Women don't compartmentalizing like men do. You need to teach her and coax her and lead her. And after she cleans out the green jello from the bedroom carpet you can ask her, wasn't that kind of fun? In time the answer you will hear is.. Awesome!


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

It's classic passive aggressive behavior. "I'll do it, if you want", *heavy sigh*. Then, when it blows up, it's all your fault for "making me do something I didn't want to do in the first place". Trying new things in the bedroom, especially after a long period of time, is a bit of a sticky wicket.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

I don't think it would matter if I was suggesting a movie or dinner or walking the dog or swinging from the trapeze during sexy time... 'I'm not interested" would make ME lose interest sooooo fast. 

I don't think I would even hear the rest...

There's a lot to be said for enthusiasm!


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> HALT!
> 
> I'm gonna take your woman's side because I was the same way when I was younger. I have since learned to get my freak on openly and happily and am the go to girl for friends STILL too afraid to shop in toy stores themselves.
> 
> ...


LOVE this post!! It makes me wonder, 'Where do you live?'. You know, I have a really nice woman I'd love for you to meet, so you can discuss a variety of 'things'.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

She's just being honest. You don't want her to fake it, do you? At least she's willing to try things.

When she says stuff like that, ask her if there's anything about it that she does think is intriguing, or offer an alternative but similar option. 

The sex shop, for example. She went, with some compromises that were hardly a big deal (your car, at night, so what?). You could have made it fun, like a secret midnight tryst or caper with your partner in crime complete with all black clothes and hats as a disguise instead of looking down on her for being embarrassed. 

Or you could have suggested an alternative - shopping together online instead, which could have been more fun _for both of you _since she wouldn't have been so anxious and could have spent some time finding out about potential turn ons in a relaxed setting on your couch.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Could be she's really not interested, but is doing it to appease you. When it doesn't work, she can then say she tried.

Or....could be she is really interested, and needs you to take the lead so she doesn't feel as though she looks like a s!utty McWh0re to you.

Depends on her reaction when you try these things. Does she lay there with her eyes rolled up in her head with a look on her face like "*sigh* when is this gonna be over", or does she seem to get into it? Giggle and show embarrasment, or huff, roll her eyes, and lay there like a wet washcloth?

If she seems interested, make sure you have a good idea what you're doing if it's technique. Make sure she has a good (great) time. Make it fun. Make her orgasm!

If she's not interested, it may be time to take steps to GET HER more interested in YOU. You may have to do some "push-pull", show a little disinterest yourself if she's acting disinterested. "Man up" a little bit. Get her to be interested in things that interest you...or at least interested in pleasing you.

Women (men too I guess) have a funny way of finding interest in things when they're trying to please someone that they otherwise would have no interest in if they weren't. Notice how many women are into bj's and anal with their affair partners (or new boyfriends once they've left a long term relationship) but not their husbands they're cheating on or just left? There's a reason for that. And it's all in her head. Either she has lost all (or most) attraction for the H, or just has hyper attraction with this new partner.

Doesn't sound like you're too bad off here. As long as she's not giving you the pity sex / eyeroll / sigh stuff, seems she's willing to "give it a shot" for you, and maybe even herself. Find what works, have fun with it, and don't get frustrated if it doesn't. As long as she's genuinely willing to try (if it's genuine), you're way ahead of a good number of the guys here!


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> HALT!
> 
> I'm gonna take your woman's side because I was the same way when I was younger. I have since learned to get my freak on openly and happily and am the go to girl for friends STILL too afraid to shop in toy stores themselves.
> 
> ...


Your husband is lucky to have such a wonderful wife. I hope he knows it without you asking! :smthumbup:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Happyquest said:


> Your husband is lucky to have such a wonderful wife. I hope he knows it without you asking! :smthumbup:


No, he doesn't. Thats why I'm here.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> HALT!
> 
> I'm gonna take your woman's side because I was the same way when I was younger. I have since learned to get my freak on openly and happily and am the go to girl for friends STILL too afraid to shop in toy stores themselves.
> 
> ...


So I will take the guy’s side of this scenario. Seventeen years of being told no, being turned down and put off, avoiding new things, or just going through the motions. Seventeen years of boring “maintenance” sex. Seventeen years of feeling like a pervert because you want to spice things up. Seventeen years of having any ideas that you suggest rejected at worst or “I don’t want to but will do it for you” at best. Seventeen years of being told that she did not have any such thoughts at all.

How do you even maintain any enthusiasm? Just as it is contagious, so is the lack of enthusiasm. How many times is a guy supposed to beat his head against a brick wall before he is allowed to stop? After seventeen years, even a man is eventually going to figure out that his wife is just not that into the sex. 

So while the husband in this scenario is happy now, there are a subset who will be resentful as hell. When it was something that interested him, it could safely be ignored. But now, that it is important to her, it should be important to the marriage. She only looked into it when it bothered her, not when it was a concern to him. Add to it the potential view that his wife was not willing to experiment earlier, when he was younger and could do some more things. When he is passed his prime, when he may not be able to go like he could, she puts pressure on him to do these things. and in the back of his mind, he wonders what is she going to do when he can’t keep up or do what she wants.

So yeah, in a perfect world, I agree with pushing those boundaries and working with her. I just note that it takes two. And until she is willing, and it is important to her, there is not much he can do.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So I will take the guy’s side of this scenario. Seventeen years of being told no, being turned down and put off, avoiding new things, or just going through the motions.


Seventeen years? Rookie.

Congratulations to Anon's husband that she got her wakeup call. 

OP, I feel for you, brother. The "I'll try it if you really want to" speech is really just shorthand for "let's get this over with so we don't have to discuss it again", at least for me and it appears you too.

Because it never really works out, does it? You try it, and the world isn't immediately transformed by the transcendent oneness of the universe. So she looks at you with the "I told you so" eyes and says "well that wasn't so great" or "why do think this would be fun" or something equivalent. 

It does suck the life out of you. You married a vanilla girl, and not even French vanilla, who thinks sprinkles on top are scandalous. She doesn't want the sprinkles, and wrinkles her nose up at the thought of even trying them for the first time. 

Say it with me and write it on my tombstone: chances are, this is not going to improve. You have two choices on how to handle this, and you know what they are.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

TallAverageGuy, I agree with everything you said, except for 17 year of trying. 


TallAverageGuy said:


> Seventeen years of being told no, being turned down and put off, avoiding new things, or just going through the motions. Seventeen years of boring “maintenance” sex. Seventeen years of feeling like a pervert because you want to spice things up.


I don't know how long Rockstar has been trying. We, you and I, can't put a value on how long a spouse should try before they should just shut up and put up or walk. I can tell you that in my case it was MAYBE 2-3 years of actually trying. Then it was pouting. Then it was nothing. In my case, there were lots of other issues that also went unacknowledged. My early marriage was a freaking MESS! I take full responsibility for all my issues I brought into the marriage and I wish I could go back and smack myself upside the head for how totally ineffectively I dealt with my baggage. 

But as my husband immediately went into shut down mode, there was nothing but my own generalized dissatisfaction to prompt change. And when I look back I can't help but think, believe, maybe delude myself into thinking if he really gave a crap about the state of our marriage, if he wasn't such a ...coward who simply cut me off emotionally, if he had confronted the issues, MAYBE we wouldn't have wasted so many years together? I can't help but think that. Am I wrong to think that?

But I know my H isn't a coward. He is actually very brave and fearlessly confronts hairy spiders, filthy trash cans, and scary noises in the night. So why does his wife's emotional needs make him run? But this thread isn't about me, or you, or Cletus. The fact that you guys are even here looking for ways to make your relationships better is commendable, IMO.

The point I am slowly making is, *don't stop trying. Tell her that you NEED to have her enthusiasm and tell her why. Don't stop trying until you are ready to walk away.*Because the moment you settle, that's when your relationship has NO chance of getting better.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> The point I am slowly making is, *don't stop trying. Tell her that you NEED to have her enthusiasm and tell her why. Don't stop trying until you are ready to walk away.*Because the moment you settle, that's when your relationship has NO chance of getting better.


On this point, I'm not going to disagree, but I'm not going to agree either, because the right thing to do here depends on the two of them. Very likely, this part of his relationship already has no chance of getting better whether he settles for it or no.

I agree with the shut up or walk part. But shut up includes stop trying. At some point, you're just doing damage to your relationship by constantly reminding your spouse how they have failed you - because that is exactly how they will perceive it, even if it's really just a matter of mismatched sexuality. You can badger your wife about her dislike of broccoli until one of you is put in the ground - but you'll never make a broccoli lover out of her. After almost two decades of failing, you can bet his wife knows how he feels about this, and has found herself unable to adapt. 

You're an outlier, Anon. Most people don't just one day upend the essence of their sexual nature. I'm not generalizing from my personal experience here, this is a well studied part of psychology. Our basic core likes, dislikes, and personality are very consistent over the course of our lives.

So you can continue to open a fresh wound and work on the issue, but the dice are pretty heavily weighted against you. If you think there's a glimmer of hope in continuing, then keep trying, of course. Just don't manufacture your own false hope in your chances of success.

I remember listening to a Savage Love podcast one day where Dan told the audience he was no longer going to answer questions about sexual incompatibility on the air. He claimed the success rate for couple's trying to fix this problem was so low as to not be worth the time giving advice. 

So I'm not a defeatist here. But I am a realist.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> TallAverageGuy, I agree with everything you said, except for 17 year of trying.
> 
> 
> I don't know how long Rockstar has been trying. We, you and I, can't put a value on how long a spouse should try before they should just shut up and put up or walk. I can tell you that in my case it was MAYBE 2-3 years of actually trying. Then it was pouting. Then it was nothing. In my case, there were lots of other issues that also went unacknowledged. My early marriage was a freaking MESS! I take full responsibility for all my issues I brought into the marriage and I wish I could go back and smack myself upside the head for how totally ineffectively I dealt with my baggage.


So is 2-3 years with no change not long enough? I am not excusing the pouting, but that sure seems lot a long time as well. If he is getting no where, isn't he getting the message you are sending? 



> But as my husband immediately went into shut down mode, there was nothing but my own generalized dissatisfaction to prompt change. And when I look back I can't help but think, believe, maybe delude myself into thinking if he really gave a crap about the state of our marriage, if he wasn't such a ...coward who simply cut me off emotionally, if he had confronted the issues, MAYBE we wouldn't have wasted so many years together? I can't help but think that. Am I wrong to think that?


I don't know. In theory, yes. Then again, how long is he expected to work to fix things when you (presumably) are sending a clear message that this is not important to you? We as men are told constantly (on this board and elsewhere) that women know exactly what they want and that it is insulting to say otherwise. Yet we are blamed when women admit that is might not always be so and men should have known better?

Put another way, let's say your husband is ignoring you and just watching sports. You need conversation, and you tell him that repeatedly. You make efforts to fix it, to start conversations, to get him to meet your needs. But he tells you for 2-3 years, through word and action, that he is not changing. Are you saying that it is your fault for not being brave enough to continue on?



> But I know my H isn't a coward. He is actually very brave and fearlessly confronts hairy spiders, filthy trash cans, and scary noises in the night. So why does his wife's emotional needs make him run? But this thread isn't about me, or you, or Cletus. The fact that you guys are even here looking for ways to make your relationships better is commendable, IMO.


This is different. Are you saying that had he worked on meeting your emotional needs, you would have been more receptive to opening up your sex life? 



> The point I am slowly making is, *don't stop trying. Tell her that you NEED to have her enthusiasm and tell her why. Don't stop trying until you are ready to walk away.*Because the moment you settle, that's when your relationship has NO chance of getting better.


And my point is that you can have those conversations until you are blue in the face - it does not matter until it is important to her. Your own experience demonstrates that.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

yQUOTE=Anon Pink;1550028]Which would you rather have? "Hell no, don't bring it up again!" Or "Not something I'm interested in, but I'm willing if you want to."

It sounds like what you want to hear is, "OMG what a fabulous idea! I love it, lets go!"

Someone needs to be the initiator, the instigator, the bringer of new and untried things to a relationship. He lack of enthusiasm for a new idea doesn't mean it will always remain thus. After bringing in a few new things, she learns that she actually can enjoy something that originally didn't do anything for her. Then SHE learns to let her imagination run wild and she starts bringing in new ideas.

So, don't worry about it, go buy the hand cuffs and ball gag.[/QUOTE

Yes, and even if she is uncomfortable with it at first doesn't mean she can't become comfortable with it in time and even find she really enjoys it. Try the things you want to try. Take the lead, guide her and be patient with her. Give her lots of praise and encourage her efforts. Don't be discouraged by what you might percieve as a lack of enthusiasm or even awkwardness at first. If its out of her comfort zone she will feel nervous. How can she be enthusiastic if she's nervous? If she ends up truly not liking it or a suggestion is really out of bounds she will let you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LouAnn Poovy (Mar 21, 2013)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> My wife and I have been talking about trying new things.
> 
> No, wait. That's not accurate. I've been talking about trying new things with my wife.
> 
> ...


*Do you try your suggestion or not? She says she's willing, it angers you, and then what? I*


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Well Cletus and TallAverageGuy, you have both made very valid points. In humility and honesty I have to admit that perhaps if he had kept trying till year 10...maybe? I just don't know what would have been effective. 

I think you both are right, that not until this issue is important to her would the issue have been amendable to change. 

I try to think, honestly, if he had said at year 5, "This isn't working for me and I can't put up with it. I like sex and I need sex and I want to have a wife who also likes sex and can be enthusiastic. You either deal with your issues or I have no choice but to check out. Physically or emotionally I need to protect myself from your constant rejection and the hurt that causes me." But he didn't say those things. 

I am learning that men too easily believe their sexual needs mark them as perverts. Yet we all know this is not true! 

Just like it took me YEARS to understand my emotional needs do not mark me as "needy" but are normal. And yes, had he met my emotional needs for affirmation, reassurance, help around the house, affection... Yes I can assure you I would have been more responsive. However I don't think I would have gotten my freak on at that point, but I would have been more introspective about what my blocks were and probably would have started doing the work earlier in response to meeting his needs... maybe, I think? But he checked out! He was not much more than a room mate who took the trash out, killed spiders and locked the doors before bed.

So...I think I know, but I have been wrong so many times before I could be wrong yet again.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> My wife and I have been talking about trying new things.
> 
> No, wait. That's not accurate. I've been talking about trying new things with my wife.
> 
> ...


I was very much the same as your wife until very recently. Just the last couple of months. Me and my hubby have a variety of issues and I took them out on him in the bedroom. Was it right of me? No absolutely not, but that's the way it was for the past 8-9 years. Idk if that is what she is doing but maybe if you put effort into what she might perceive as "other" issues things will improve with her enthusiasm level. My hubby and I have been communicating better lately about all the other problems and I have tried and loved other things in the bedroom that a year ago I would have flat out refused him. I'm not trying to excuse what she is doing but there is probably a reason. And once someone gets in the habit that I was in it is actually very hard to stop.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Well Cletus and TallAverageGuy, you have both made very valid points. In humility and honesty I have to admit that perhaps if he had kept trying till year 10...maybe? I just don't know what would have been effective.
> 
> I think you both are right, that not until this issue is important to her would the issue have been amendable to change.
> Perhaps it is not important to her because she thinks other issues are not important to him...
> ...


You could also be very right. At least what you're saying makes total sense to me.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Well Cletus and TallAverageGuy, you have both made very valid points. In humility and honesty I have to admit that perhaps if he had kept trying till year 10...maybe? I just don't know what would have been effective.
> 
> I think you both are right, that not until this issue is important to her would the issue have been amendable to change.
> 
> I try to think, honestly, if he had said at year 5, "This isn't working for me and I can't put up with it. I like sex and I need sex and I want to have a wife who also likes sex and can be enthusiastic. You either deal with your issues or I have no choice but to check out. Physically or emotionally I need to protect myself from your constant rejection and the hurt that causes me." But he didn't say those things.


Thanks for the honest response. I agree that the above "speech" is reasonable and should be done if one decides to quit trying. 



> I am learning that men too easily believe their sexual needs mark them as perverts. Yet we all know this is not true!


I think men know that intellectually. But I am not sure this is true. I think all people internalize the bad far more easily than the good. So in the case of many men, the idea that he is a perverts for wanting his wife is difficult to deal with



> Just like it took me YEARS to understand my emotional needs do not mark me as "needy" but are normal. And yes, had he met my emotional needs for affirmation, reassurance, help around the house, affection... Yes I can assure you I would have been more responsive. However I don't think I would have gotten my freak on at that point, but I would have been more introspective about what my blocks were and probably would have started doing the work earlier in response to meeting his needs... maybe, I think? But he checked out! He was not much more than a room mate who took the trash out, killed spiders and locked the doors before bed.


Would it be worth it for the OP to work on that aspect of things. Perhaps love languages or his needs her needs?

I will note that while he did check out, I suspect he was doing what he thought you wanted.



> So...I think I know, but I have been wrong so many times before I could be wrong yet again.


Even hindsight is not 20/20. Sigh.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Cletus said:


> On this point, I'm not going to disagree, but I'm not going to agree either, because the right thing to do here depends on the two of them. Very likely, this part of his relationship already has no chance of getting better whether he settles for it or no.
> 
> I agree with the shut up or walk part. But shut up includes stop trying. At some point, you're just doing damage to your relationship by constantly reminding your spouse how they have failed you - because that is exactly how they will perceive it, even if it's really just a matter of mismatched sexuality. You can badger your wife about her dislike of broccoli until one of you is put in the ground - but you'll never make a broccoli lover out of her. After almost two decades of failing, you can bet his wife knows how he feels about this, and has found herself unable to adapt.
> 
> ...


If a person doesnt like sex or is an "I can take it or leave it" type person. That can't be changed. 

Having some anxiety, discomfort or self consciousness around sex itself or trying new things is very different. With the right man handling it in the right way things can change dramatically.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Aha! Finally something I can be adamant about!



TallAverageGuy said:


> So in the case of many men, the idea that he is a perverts for wanting his wife is difficult to deal with


I can emphatically state, I never felt like he wanted me. I felt like he wanted sex and I was the closest thing available. God even now that hurts!


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Aha! Finally something I can be adamant about!
> 
> 
> 
> I can emphatically state, I never felt like he wanted me. I felt like he wanted sex and I was the closest thing available. God even now that hurts!


Interesting. I can adamantly say that I always wanted my wife, and not that I wanted sex and she was the closest thing available. 

But looking back at my less mature self when we were dating and first married, I am less sure that what I communicated was consistent with that thought.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

I think a lot of women have felt the way that Anon Pink has felt. I myself know that I think I was just the closest thing available for sex. Or that my hubby only wanted to because of the convenience. Communication is our biggest issue.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

michelle13 said:


> I think a lot of women have felt the way that Anon Pink has felt. I myself know that I think I was just the closest thing available for sex. Or that my hubby only wanted to because of the convenience. Communication is our biggest issue.[/QUOTE_Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> Yes, this is very common. Feeling they just want it not you! True or not its a common perception and will cause resentment.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

It's not often that I feel bad for the male species, but on this I do.

Wanting your wife too often for her tastes makes you a hound only looking for gratification.

Want her in ways she finds disgusting, unnecessary, or unnatural makes you a deviant.

Fill the gaps on your own time and you're a sex addict.

We should all get a Bronze Star just for showing the gumption to even enter the minefield.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Not all women think wanting a lot of sex is bad. Some want sex just as much. Not all women find sex acts outside of what might be considered standard disgusting or perverted. I don't think the number of women who do are as high as you seem to think. There are plenty of women in this world who enjoy and yes, even love sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Good Girl Syndrome. The fix is less talking about it and more just doing it. If you ask her to try it, she HAS to say she's not interested...because she's a good girl after all. But if you just do it, then the big bad man is responsible, so she can enjoy and still be a good girl.

Bottom line: less talking, more doing.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Good Girl Syndrome. The fix is less talking about it and more just doing it. If you ask her to try it, she HAS to say she's not interested...because she's a good girl after all. But if you just do it, then the big bad man is responsible, so she can enjoy and still be a good girl.
> 
> Bottom line: less talking, more doing.


I'm not so sure about the good girl syndrome but maybe. But yes, you already have the green light and yes just do it! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think Anon posts are brilliant. I was a good Catholic girl when I first got married and I changed. 

Maybe understanding the mind of a good girl will help. We think that being too interest in sex makes us sl*ts. That's the attitude that you start with. It can change if you are careful to make the environment safe and comfortable as she peeks out if her box. 

Disappointment, although understandable, can make her associate negative emotions with sexual adventures. Negative feeling are associated with being a sl*t. . If she does not behave as expected, you feel like a failure and that things will never get better. She is going to think she failed and nothing she does will make it better. She avoids trying at all cost. 

Do you think that having no expectations of enthusiastic acceptance will help? 

One poster mentioned taking his wife to a sex shop in a place where she thought she might run into someone they knew. I think it was doomed to fail from the start. There were too many things that made the experience negative for her. Looking online or going into a shop while on vacation might have been more comfortable. The fear of discovery is less. 

I changed incrementally. If a small step was a good experience and my husband was happy with me, I would go forward. The more I tried the more pleasure I got - both from pleasing my husband and pleasing myself. I felt safe most of the time because I knew my husband would not act angry, impatient or disappointed and he had my happiness in mind. He may have been impatient but he did not show it. 

the key is to make it fun and safe I think. Try to see the world from her viewpoint and make it safe by making every attempt to hide anger if it exist. If she associated trying new things with unpleasant emotions, she may not feel comfortable enough to relax and have fun. 

It is probably better to start with something you think she would get pleasure out of and start small. It's only my opinion but talking about sex with an inhibited person gets a canned response - oh no not that again. Perhaps approaching it from a relationship satisfaction angle will work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> I think Anon posts are brilliant. I was a good Catholic girl when I first got married and I changed.
> 
> Maybe understanding the mind of a good girl will help. We think that being too interest in sex makes us sl*ts. That's the attitude that you start with. It can change if you are careful to make the environment safe and comfortable as she peeks out if her box.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. And even if its not about the good girl complex if she can't behave in the way you want and expect then she feels like a failure. It creates more anxiety, self consciousness....all the things you need to counteract.

Making the enviroment as safe and as comfortable as possible is key!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

inarut said:


> Not all women think wanting a lot of sex is bad. Some want sex just as much. Not all women find sex acts outside of what might be considered standard disgusting or perverted. I don't think the number of women who do are as high as you seem to think. There are plenty of women in this world who enjoy and yes, even love sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They're well represented on this forum. So are the guys (and no small supply of women) with the other kind of spouse. 

I'm aware that I'm with someone who is 3 sigma to the left of the norm on sexuality. I personally don't know of a more sexually repressed woman, although there are examples here that make me feel pretty good about my lot in life. I understand that only a few are like this. 

Nonetheless, there are posts here by the dozen that clearly show how many women don't understand male sexuality - and how many men don't understand women. If I could invent Douglas Adam's Point of View gun, I'd be a freakin' millionaire.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think it's all about perceptions. I mean, it's easy to come off looking like a little boy seeking approval to try something new. That's not a dig at you OP. I've come off that way many times. Harder to do, is coming off like a leader and making things happen. Personally I think the less talking about it in advance the better (when trying something new). If you must talk about it in advance, try not to sound like you're "asking" or seeking approval. These things are turn offs for many women.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think it's all about perceptions. I mean, it's easy to come off looking like a little boy seeking approval to try something new. That's not a dig at you OP. I've come off that way many times. Harder to do, is coming off like a leader and making things happen. Personally I think the less talking about it in advance the better (when trying something new). If you must talk about it in advance, try not to sound like you're "asking" or seeking approval. These things are turn offs for many women.


Enthusiastically agree.

However, it might be wise to ask if jello or cherry juice is gonna stain...


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Anon Pink said:


> Enthusiastically agree.
> 
> However, it might be wise to ask if jello or cherry juice is gonna stain...


Isn't that what the rubber sheets are for?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think it's all about perceptions. I mean, it's easy to come off looking like a little boy seeking approval to try something new. That's not a dig at you OP. I've come off that way many times. Harder to do, is coming off like a leader and making things happen. Personally I think the less talking about it in advance the better (when trying something new). If you must talk about it in advance, try not to sound like you're "asking" or seeking approval. These things are turn offs for many women.


I've been told quite clearly that any new behavior has to be discussed ahead of time. Expectations have to be set and yes, permission given. Failure to comply is a breach of contract and a guarantee of failure.

Your approach may work on some, even a majority of women. On others, it's a deal breaker. Knowing which kind of partner you have is important in your approach.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

^^^ yes. Good girls say no. 

I think you are not interpreting her comments correctly. You think they refer to you I very much doubt that they do. I'll give you a view from the good girl side maybe you will understand. It understandable that the response "if you want to try I will do it for you" Is not what anyone woukd want to hear. 

That's good girl speak for "boy that sounds good but saying it makes me feel bad so I'll let him take the rap". 

When trying something new, don't let her negativity get you down. If it does not go well, tell her next time will be better and then go forward. Act warm and welcoming no matter what sge says. Understand that her negative reaction is for her phyche not yours. 

She has to make you out to be the one seeking sex and dragging her along. If you think about it, doesn't she let you drag her? She may say something negative but she is going along. . She needs to say that so she does not feel guilty. Can you let that be a beginning instead of an end? 

She unloads her sexual feelings onto you. Let her for now. But while she telling you that you are the one that wants this, be positive so she feels that her being more sexual will not get a negative response like it did when she was young. She is normal, no worries. 

Your expecting wild enthusiasm but that is not the person she is. You are the one who knows its normal so you have to help her see that. She does not understand male sexuality but she can understand that you love her when she is sexual and you want her to enjoy her sexuality. You can make her feel that no matter how much she enjoys sex, you love her and accept that part of her. 

Remember she had to hide her interest in sex when she was unmarried. She has that habit. You can take the heat for being sexual right? When she enjoys something, don't talk about it, non verbal is better, just be loving. You may not get exactly what you want but you have have a good time trying to get there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Isn't that what the rubber sheets are for?


I meant stain on skin. Some people are dermotologically hypersensitive you know....:whip:


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

waiwera said:


> I don't think it would matter if I was suggesting a movie or dinner or walking the dog or swinging from the trapeze during sexy time... 'I'm not interested" would make ME lose interest sooooo fast.
> 
> I don't think I would even hear the rest...
> 
> There's a lot to be said for enthusiasm!


Exactly.

I don't want to come off as a guy who thinks he's got his wife pegged, but in this case I do know what's going to happen. I'll suggest we try something different, she'll say, "I personally am not interested, but I'll try it for you." It turns me off so completely that I can't perform. I end up sulking while she says that she didn't do anything so why am I angry with her?


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

norajane said:


> The sex shop, for example. She went, with some compromises that were hardly a big deal (your car, at night, so what?). You could have made it fun, like a secret midnight tryst or caper with your partner in crime complete with all black clothes and hats as a disguise instead of looking down on her for being embarrassed.


I don't think that these requirements were "hardly a big deal." 'Compromise' implies to parties willing to let go of some things meet together at the ultimate goal. She had demands that had to be met before she agreed.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

donny64 said:


> Could be she's really not interested, but is doing it to appease you. When it doesn't work, she can then say she tried.
> 
> Or....could be she is really interested, and needs you to take the lead so she doesn't feel as though she looks like a s!utty McWh0re to you.


Wouldn't the fact that I'm inviting her to try something with me imply that I don't see her that way?


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> Wouldn't the fact that I'm inviting her to try something with me imply that I don't see her that way?


No actually it doesn't imply that at all. It depends on how she sees herself while trying the new things. It took me 9 years of my hubby asking to try new things for me to try one. I always gave him the same answer as your wife gave you. I was never enthusiastic about any of them. I'm still reluctant, I just don't tell him that. It is very hard for me to admit that I like something. Perhaps she is that way too. And like I said earlier, if there are other issues going on then perhaps she thinks you only want sex with her because she's there and convenient. I'm not saying that that is what's going on. But that is how I felt all those times I didn't bother being enthusiastic.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Seventeen years? Rookie.
> 
> Congratulations to Anon's husband that she got her wakeup call.
> 
> ...


 That! That right there! That is exactly what I'm talking about.



> It does suck the life out of you. You married a vanilla girl, and not even French vanilla, who thinks sprinkles on top are scandalous. She doesn't want the sprinkles, and wrinkles her nose up at the thought of even trying them for the first time.


 I love my wife very much, but it feels like I'm pulling teeth... through her nose.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> That! That right there! That is exactly what I'm talking about.
> 
> I love my wife very much, but it feels like I'm pulling teeth... through her nose.


Yeah, well, duh. I'm sitting right next to you there in the box seat. I just can't decide if I'm Statler or Waldorf. Guess I'm not even sure which is which.


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

I thought you guys were given some really great advice here. You seem to be dismissing it. Although I don't think the good girl complex applies to all, at least not to the same degree, this advice is applicable and relevant to most issues regarding sex. The advice given is sound. IF that's what you are doing and you continue to get upturned noses and disdain either you have women who just don't care for sex or they are so heavily entrenched in whatever their issues are it makes them completely unwilling, unable to step outside of what's comfortable. They just can't do it. Or maybe there are other issues in the relationship that need to be tackled first.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

inarut said:


> I thought you guys were given some really great advice here. You seem to be dismissing it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The advice is only good if it's applicable.

There is a difference between a woman who wants to avoid a dirty girl label, who when pushed past her limits feels uneasy but ultimately enjoys the experience and a woman who when similarly pushed dislikes the whole event. 

The advice given is perfectly applicable to the first type and completely useless for the second. I am married to one of the second type. How do I know? Because I've had three decades to run the experiments, including actions equivalent to the herein offered advice.

The OP will have to speak for his own situation. My wife does not suffer from good girl syndrome. She 'suffers' from sexual ambivalence. Take it or leave it. Couldn't care less if we do it except as means to keep me engaged in an environment where she can maintain complete control of our sexual expression. Finds most sexual acts disgusting or uninteresting. Doesn't masturbate, fantasize, or enjoy erotica. Who gets physically uncomfortable and has been know to leave the room when an R rated movie includes sex. Tried the 50 Shades book to see what all the hype was about and threw it out at the first mention of oral sex.

This is not the picture of a woman who just needs a little extra push and a kind, caring husband to blossom into the sex kitten of her unspoken desires. This is a person who basically has little or no inner sexual life, and likes it that way just fine.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> This is not the picture of a woman who just needs a little extra push and a kind, caring husband to blossom into the sex kitten of her unspoken desires. This is a person who basically has little or no inner sexual life, and likes it that way just fine.


Meanwhile, how does the husband of said woman feel? Is this woman a true asexual? Is it difficult to love a true asexual person? How does a husband maintain his marriage if each time they have sex he knows she is doing it just to make the husband feel content, but not because she wants it or particularly enjoys it?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Meanwhile, how does the husband of said woman feel? Is this woman a true asexual? Is it difficult to love a true asexual person? How does a husband maintain his marriage if each time they have sex he knows she is doing it just to make the husband feel content, but not because she wants it or particularly enjoys it?


Ah, not asexual. Just limited to a very, very narrow definition of what is considered acceptable sexuality. She is highly and easily orgasmic - the easiest I have ever been with, if you can believe that given the rest of the picture which I have described.

As long as we stick to the script for sex, and as long as we stick to the once-a-week-ish frequency, and as long as we don't take more than 3/4 hour or so from start to finish, she has a good time too. I just can't color outside the lines.

It's not accurate to use the label asexual here, and I don't think I would be able to get into bed with someone who truly never really wanted to be there under any circumstances. The problem is the slot canyon narrow circumstances.


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## Happyquest (Apr 21, 2009)

Anon Pink said:


> I am learning that men too easily believe their sexual needs mark them as perverts. Yet we all know this is not true!


Wow that is so true. I have always felt perverted because of my sexual need and felt so bad about myself for having a need when it appeared my wife had none. I tried so hard to turn off my desire. I would even pray that my desire would leave me. I still try to hide my desire and need when I am around her. I rarely initiate to explore new desires for fear she will view me as perverted. Maybe this is why porn with men is so popular because the woman in porn appear to us as enjoying our perverted kinks instead of judging us. 

thanks for you response Anon it made me think


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Happyquest said:


> Maybe this is why porn with men is so popular because the woman in porn appear to us as enjoying our perverted kinks instead of judging us.


I wonder if all men think like this, perhaps if the men that have this reason for viewing porn explained it like that then women would be less judgmental. Or at the least more forgiving of their men watching porn. Although the thing about porn is those women and men in it are paid actors. I wouldn't doubt in the least that they are faking it. lol


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

michelle13 said:


> I wonder if all men think like this, perhaps if the men that have this reason for viewing porn explained it like that then women would be less judgmental. Or at the least more forgiving of their men watching porn. Although the thing about porn is those women and men in it are paid *"actors."* I wouldn't doubt in the least that they are faking it. lol


Fixed that for you. 

I think HappyQuest has a point, though. Maybe it's due to the easy access to porn, men have an unfair expectation about sex, just like women may have an unfair expectation of relationships in general due to romance novels.

But I don't know how that helps me any.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

This may seem incredibly obtuse, but do you think it would be beneficial to ask her to come up with a couple of ideas? I've tried that before with absolutely no success, but maybe it's time to try again. Have any of the ladies here changed once they were given control of what they tried next?


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> This may seem incredibly obtuse, but do you think it would be beneficial to ask her to come up with a couple of ideas? I've tried that before with absolutely no success, but maybe it's time to try again. Have any of the ladies here changed once they were given control of what they tried next?


I don't know if she would come up with anything. How is your intimacy level outside of the bedroom? Does she commonly show you affection of a non-sexual nature? You could try (without expecting sex) to "prime" her for later. When she's cooking or doing dishes, something with her back turned to you, kiss her neck, massage her back, hug her. Then walk away, make a habit of this and see if her enthusiasm returns. I know that if I don't feel sexy outside of the bedroom then I certainly don't feel comfortable enough to really get into it. Does that make sense to you? Or sound like something that might help?


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

michelle13 said:


> I don't know if she would come up with anything. How is your intimacy level outside of the bedroom? Does she commonly show you affection of a non-sexual nature? You could try (without expecting sex) to "prime" her for later. When she's cooking or doing dishes, something with her back turned to you, kiss her neck, massage her back, hug her. Then walk away, make a habit of this and see if her enthusiasm returns. I know that if I don't feel sexy outside of the bedroom then I certainly don't feel comfortable enough to really get into it. Does that make sense to you? Or sound like something that might help?


A lot of this is dependent on how I personally feel that day, but I definitely try to do the thing you mentioned because I am intentionally trying to increase her feeling of intimacy. It definitely makes her feel loved and taken care of, but it doesn't translate to more intimacy or adventure (that's a poor word for it, but you get my meaning) in the bedroom.

Oh, and to respond to your first sentence, I don't think she would be able to come up with anything either. I'm just spitballing here.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

By the way, I think this is turning into a great discussion.


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## michelle13 (Oct 23, 2012)

Hmm... you could ask her how she would feel if you didn't discuss the things you want to try, if you just led into them. Ask her if there is anything that is strictly "off limits" such as oral, anal. If there is, then obviously don't try those things. Maybe if it's not discussed she would be more enthusiastic and with time be willing to talk about them. It does sound like the good girl syndrome. See for me I would rather he just did something new the first time and then we could talk about it later. I sometimes have a hard time showing enthusiasm also. Especially about new things or things that would be considered taboo.

Yes this is turning into a good discussion.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Maybe you can meet half way. Find the resources and make them available, then leave it up to her to absorb the advice. Last year I bought a copy of "The Guide to Getting It On". It's a book about all things sexual. It did get noticed.

For long time we had a copy of 101 Nights of Great Sex laying around the house. This one is divided into Her pages and Him pages. If she's merely short on imagination but willing to try, this will provide the ideas. You'll have to participate too on your assignments.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Ultimately this still boils down to a communication issue.

When a person has a feeling of foreboding about broaching a subject with their spouse, there is something wrong. 

Not knowing the principals involved with this story, it is too difficult to make some important distinctions. One thing that would help is a little more info on what kind of "adventurism" we are talking about here. 

We're both very high drive yet pretty plain insofar as just vaginal and oral, although we watch porn together. If either one of us brought gadgets or costumes or S&M type stuff towards the other it would be "no!" So it would help to know if we are talking about butt plugs and whips or first time oral in this story.

I have a feeling that the woman isn't too communicative about sex in general. Couples need to be able to sit down across the table from one another and just have a frank, open discussion about it beginning with the OP's concern. I don't mean right before having sex. A discussion where the hubby tells the wife just what he told us - he feels badly that he tries to be adventuresome about sex and she isn't very receptive to it. 

In this discussion it is really important to get down to the bottom of how she really _feels_ about it. Not in judgement of them, but to find out what's going on inside her head and heart. You can't really do much until she gets those feelings out on the table.


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## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> Ultimately this still boils down to a communication issue... Not knowing the principals involved with this story, it is too difficult to make some important distinctions. One thing that would help is a little more info on what kind of "adventurism" we are talking about here.


Pretty tame stuff comparatively. Above vibrators and showering but below anal. Mostly positions, lingerie... that kind of stuff.


> Couples need to be able to sit down across the table from one another and just have a frank, open discussion about it beginning with the OP's concern. I don't mean right before having sex. A discussion where the hubby tells the wife just what he told us - he feels badly that he tries to be adventuresome about sex and she isn't very receptive to it.


That's one of the most frustrating aspects to this: She's very receptive to talking, but she's unresponsive. In the most recent conversation which led to this thread, I asked her if there was anything she wanted to try. Her response (as typical) was "I just want to be with you." It's very romantic, but it doesn't help me a lot. She says that she isn't very interested in playing outside the box but she will try something if I want to. Yet 95% of the time when I suggest something, she either says no right up front front or very quickly backs out.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

May not be a good idea to be too direct in talking about it. Talking seems to be a way of deflecting and turning down the heat. 

I don't remember what your objection was to not discussing or expecting enthusiasm. What exactly do you envision her doing that would make you happy?

What do you want her to do and say? Is the person you want her to be seem anything like your wife? How wide is the gap between what you want her to be and what she is as a person? 

Could she feel that she can never be what you want but does not want to disappoint you by saying so? I don't know how this will help but can you try something for a month? 

Just a month - stop watching porn and concentrate on just enjoying your wife and showing her that you are basically happy with her as a person and a sexual being. 

I think you are being perfectly reasonable in what you want. She may be misinterpreting what you are unhappy about. 

It's not her that you are unhappy with right? You are unhappy with her limited expression of her sexuality. Do you think that establishing the fact that she is enough for you and you are basically happy with her would help? 

What you want is for her to enjoy her sexuality with you right? You want her to feel safe to be free with you. 

Could be like hitting the reset button - erase all of the past broken promises and resentments and start over. Slow and steady.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> Dr Rockstar:
> Pretty tame stuff comparatively. Above vibrators and showering but below anal. Mostly positions, lingerie... that kind of stuff.


How about just going ahead and buying her the lingerie and, rather than talking about new positions, simply coax them into your repetoire? It doesn't sound as though you're talking about anything over the top here...


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

My intuition is that perhaps she feels pressured. Always being nagged to try something new, as though what she currently enjoys isn't good enough for you. I have felt this way in my marriage when I have felt the trust in my husband diminish. Usually my trust diminishes because he has not listened to me and has pushed for his own hobbies, expenditures, priorities, and mine were pushed to the side. Most recently that took place as our mutual porn use went in the direction of wife sharing, he had to work hard to groom me to consenting, (and which resulted in my developing limerence on the other man. Devastatingly painful. We are a super strong couple, and we are already healing and growing from this, but i would never advise trying it to anyone, limerence is a serious monster.)

I just read about something called Karezza, where connection is the goal rather than orgasm. My husband and I do this more or less naturally, when we are most bonded, and it was neat to find out it has a name and specific practices that heighten it. "Urban Tantra" by Barbara Carellas is also an awesome resource for establishing the sense of connectedness and energy which can then lead to more thrilling lovemaking.

I am glad you asked your question, because it helped me look into my own marriage and see how he and I do this pressuring to one another from time to time, and how it builds resentment in both parties.

only bonding activities improve the situation, not hotter sex. We have super hot sex and play lots of games, but that can lead to ramping up the hotness into boundary-breaking territory, as it did to our great dismay and woe. We are turning completely away from the "novelty as aphrodisiac" model Pair Bonding 101: Beware Novelty-As-Aphrodisiac | Your Brain On Porn and focusing on our loving attachment. I have full confidence in it, and I hope my mentioning it helps you and your wife. It seems like there is tons of love there.


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