# Amicable 50/50? Sorry, no... Now, she wants it all!



## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

We originally talked about not involving lawyers. Then, she had a free consultation with one. I did as well... I didn't want to fight things out, but I wanted to make sure we both understood our options. One of things he suggested was that, if it was an amicable no-fault divorce (what we both had been aiming for at the time), then he could help us with the paperwork and the filing for a pretty reasonable flat fee (filing and court costs included).

Afterward, I thought it might be not be a bad idea to hire him in that capacity... A professional to make sure the paperwork all gets written and filed properly. Someone we'd hire just for his legal expertise. I explained this all to her two months ago, and she said fine. I hired him, and based on what my wife and I had discussed, he helped me write up a first draft of a pretty reasonable and fair divorce agreement, so we could have something down on paper to start from.

Basically, the first draft I gave to her to look over stipulates joint custody overall, a weekly 50/50 custody schedule (that was actually my daughter's idea), 50/50 split of expenses, reserved child support (neither pays, based on 50/50 custody and relatively equal incomes... neither of us can really afford to pay and still maintain a home for the kids), and since I'd be staying in the house I'd have residential custody over the kids but only for the purposes of maintaining their permanent address (it means they don't have to change school districts, even if she moves to a different one). We both keep our own cars and car loans, we both keep our own bank accounts, we both keep our own debts (credit cards, student loans, etc... I'd actually focused on paying off hers in recent years, so she comes out ahead, here), I'd get the house (my Mom helped with the down payment, I've been paying the mortgage, and it's several grand underwater anyway), there a 1972 WV Beetle that doesn't work right and is essentially up for grabs, and we split our retirement accounts 50/50 (a BIG payoff for her). These are all things that we had discussed two months earlier and that I thought we had come to a general agreement on.

And yet, after she looked it over, she told me that I was being unreasonable, that parts of the agreement were "wildly inaccurate", and that my "demands are totally unacceptable". I suggested we go over it and talk about what she doesn't like about it. That's when she said she was going to have her attorney look it over and that her attorney would talk to my attorney, etc, etc, etc...

Now, today I heard from a mutual friend, that my dear wife has been telling them that "[Pbar] thinks I'm going to leave the kids with him", and that she's going fight to keep the house, because she could afford it if I was paying her child support.

So, now she's done a complete about-face, gone back on what we'd already agreed on and wants to take everything and shut me out.

Un-****ing-believable.

 issed: :cussing: :banghead:


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Those who wish for everything.....usually end up with nothing. Equal incomes, 50/50 custody.....she's getting a good deal on pension.....she has toxic friends at the hair salon telling her all kinds of stuff. It's like a hair dryer......all hot air. But this is a true version of her coming out. Never thought she would do that huh LOL Surprise


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> ...she has toxic friends at the hair salon telling her all kinds of stuff.


I know exactly who the particular toxic friend is... and she happens to be a divorced, single-mom attorney. No wonder, eh?



Chuck71 said:


> But this is a true version of her coming out. Never thought she would do that huh LOL Surprise


Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it?

Now, I'm not a psychologist, but read through the blog entries from this website... http://www.shrink4men.com/index/ ...and it paints a fairly accurate picture of our relationship and our marriage.



Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Ah.....the toxic single mom. Let me guess.....unhappy and miserable and wants company. So they can sit at the kitchen table sipping tea and bash you and her ex H. Yeah what fun LOL

My D so far has been amicable.....if it gets nasty I have four aces in the hole I can pull out at anytime. Plan to play nice but if it gets dirty never show your hand until they have theirs. 

I hope she comes out of her psycho ways before it is final but I'm to the point, I don't know if I even want to return. Rephrase.....I will not go back to the way it was six months ago. I still love her and always will but when we step in front of the judge.....I'm not her friend.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Those who wish for everything.....usually end up with nothing.


I've had a few female friends who went into divorce thinking they'd get 'everything' and it never works out that way. I'd listen to them talk and just secretly giggle cause I knew no way in heck a judge would ever give them all that they wanted. 

Their husbands were being more than reasonable but because these wives had to act up they ended up with LESS. 

This also works in reverse. Knew a woman who cheated but her husband had to act a fool and he ended up paying MORE just because he was being unreasonable.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mav-And really destroys any hopes at one day maybe mending fences, if possible.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

The crazy thing is, aside from some sentmental value, because my mother helped us with the down payment, I don't need to stay in the house. I don't really care about the stuff and the money, except as a means to provide for my kids. I've got a good job and I work hard, so I can always make more money and I can always buy more stuff. It's not that important to me.

What's more important is being there for my kids, and being able to provide a safe, happy, comfortable home for them while they're with me. And I want her to be able to do the same.

It's just infuriating that she's suddenly deciding to be all petty about it.



Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

If I may suggest, being a relatively upwardly mobile person myself, would you consider discussing giving her the house in exchange for 50/50 custody? Also -she works right? So no alimony. I say this because you appear to have handled her A extremely well, and I would be extremely concerned in the effects of an attritious court battle on the kids. I have no idea how practical she is and whether or not she would accept and screw you over later (we had a mediator sign off on our plan to make sure neither party got screwed)

What I did was to give her the house under the condition that it was owned by the kids, and who ever was in charge of the kids got to stay there. I can't handle my kids moving from home to home, I really want them to have a measure of stability. (Our current agreement is to swap weekends, and I get two weekdays. It's mutual-ish, so she has the keys to my apartment and the option of staying there over the weekend while I watch the kids if she so desires. Also, legally we're still married so my situation may just be different).


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

caladan said:


> What I did was to give her the house under the condition that it was owned by the kids, and who ever was in charge of the kids got to stay there. I can't handle my kids moving from home to home, I really want them to have a measure of stability. (Our current agreement is to swap weekends, and I get two weekdays. It's mutual-ish, so she has the keys to my apartment and the option of staying there over the weekend while I watch the kids if she so desires. Also, legally we're still married so my situation may just be different).


Caladan- I'm interested in your arrangement here as shuffling houses is my concern also and we are negiotating currently. Can you please go into some more detail on this? What weekdays do you get? Thanks


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

soca70 said:


> Caladan- I'm interested in your arrangement here as shuffling houses is my concern also and we are negiotating currently.  Can you please go into some more detail on this? What weekdays do you get? Thanks


Hey Soca.

In general I get mondays and tuesdays - I have an agreement at work that allows me to leave early to get home. To be fair, we had this arrangement in place before the separation. Fridays are technically negotiable - if she needs to go out (hang out with friends, etc), then we work something out.

With finances, I pay daycare and the mortgage (our two highest expenses), but I do earn significantly more than she does, so I still give her some cash - she's the mother of my kids, and her wellbeing affects their wellbeing. It's a sacrifice I'm happy to make.

At the moment we're negotiating getting some work done on the house - it's a 3-storey, (well, two floors and an attic). The plan is to rent out the second floor and I'll move into the attic, that way the kids can see me whenever they want, and not just when we (me and her decide). Still a negotiation in progress though, we need to make sure we can both handle the fact that we're both likely to be hanging out with other people. No third parties sleeping over, that's an accepted rule.

I don't know what else you're interested in knowing - if you have more questions, please feel free to ask.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

caladan said:


> Hey Soca.
> 
> In general I get mondays and tuesdays - I have an agreement at work that allows me to leave early to get home. To be fair, we had this arrangement in place before the separation. Fridays are technically negotiable - if she needs to go out (hang out with friends, etc), then we work something out.
> 
> ...


Thanks Caladan! This actually gives me an idea. I wasn't so keen on the 2/2/3 as it has a 5 day stretch nor the 7/7. I'm thinking something like you have with Mon and Tue with me, Wed and Thurs w STBXW, and alternate places on Fridays with "family movie night" (which we still agreed to have) and then every other weekend. 

I travel for work and tend to be out the second half of the week when I do. Her new place is right around the block 5 minute walk so we'd both be close by for our boys if needed.

I'm not sold on the two houses bit but something like this may work. Thanks for the info!


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

soca70 said:


> Thanks Caladan! This actually gives me an idea. I wasn't so keen on the 2/2/3 as it has a 5 day stretch nor the 7/7. I'm thinking something like you have with Mon and Tue with me, Wed and Thurs w STBXW, and alternate places on Fridays with "family movie night" (which we still agreed to have) and then every other weekend.
> 
> I travel for work and tend to be out the second half of the week when I do. Her new place is right around the block 5 minute walk so we'd both be close by for our boys if needed.
> 
> I'm not sold on the two houses bit but something like this may work. Thanks for the info!


Glad to help.

We also have a one "family day" a month (or more) plan, which could be a day in the park, movies, dinner, swimming, whatever. I think it's a great idea.


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## timeforpain (Apr 29, 2012)

Pbar,

I'm new to all of this, but I've done a TON of reading, so take my advice with that in mind.

First, given what you've said, she has pretty much zero chance of grabbing the kids and the assets for herself and getting you to pay her alimony and/or support. At least in a no-fault divorce (I suppose she could try and go the fault route in Illinois... but I'll assume she doesn't have grounds for it).

If I were you, I'd be pissed too: you almost had an amicable and affordable divorce before this and now you may be heading down a rough road. Contested divorces are expensive, take forever, usually destroy any chance of maintaining a working long-term relationship with your spouse, and often take a severe toll on the kids. Who would want that?

She may eventually calm down and revert to the "let's just get this done" plan. You can hope. But if I were you, here's what I would do: take the high road (easier said than done when you're upset) and tell her something like "I can see you have some objections to the plan the lawyer drew up. But I don't see anything here we can't work through. Why don't we sit down and work out the details with a mediator. Mediation has an extremely high rate of success, and we will almost certainly be happier with the outcome than if we battle this out with lawyers. Plus we'll be done sooner, it will cost less, the kids won't have to suffer through a trial, and we can keep a semblance of civility in our relationship as coparents. The mediator is completely neutral and there are tons of them in the area. If you wanted to suggest one we could probably get started on this next week."

Note that none of what I say is a lie or a manipulation: it's all true. 

If you can't get her to agree with the default 50/50 plan, then a mediator will help you tremendously because they will almost certainly steer her toward that same deal. And you don't look like the bad guy in that setting... she does for trying to take everything for herself.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

As scummy as family law is get a shark cutthroat atty. When I lived in cook county it made it a smooth one because he knew his sh!t. Carry a VAR on you while the both of you live together, sounds like she is trying to set you up jmo. Mine left me after confronted to om it lasted about a year according to my d. Now she's all flirty with me because I moved on and am dating again, oh well!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

PB-Isn't it a coincidence her g/f is..................a lawyer. I wonder who your W will use......hmmmmmm. Honestly, the attorney friend is lacing her up to take her case a rake in some cash. If your W is smart, she will see this pretty soon.
On another note, when the W starts getting snippy and hateful....I have seen it done hundreds of times.....they then suddenly get emotionally sentimental. I don't know when your D is but I'm guessing in about three to four weeks you might see that change. Does not happen all the time but more often than not. Then it is your call....I just say this because you do have children. Best of luck and keep posting!!


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

caladan said:


> If I may suggest, being a relatively upwardly mobile person myself, would you consider discussing giving her the house in exchange for 50/50 custody?


I would consider it, but...


She doesn't make quite enough on her own to easily afford the current mortgage payment.
She has a bad history of running up debt and then not paying it off. (I just spent the last two months clearing her bad accounts off my credit report.) I don't exactly trust her to keep up with the payments, especially while my ame is still on the mortgage.
That also means she's got a ****ty credit rating. She might not be able to refinance it in her name alone and even if she can, she'll get crummy rates.
She talks about being able to afford the house if she gets child support, but there's no guarantee that she'll get as much child support as she expects, and I'm pretty sure she's also not taking into account utility bills, insurance, taxes, repairs, and renovations.

So, while I would consider it, I don't think I would agree to it, unless there was some sort of guarantee in writing that she would keep up with the payments.



caladan said:


> Also -she works right? So no alimony.


Correct. She makes less than I do, but not by much... and my extra debts make up that difference.



caladan said:


> What I did was to give her the house under the condition that it was owned by the kids, and who ever was in charge of the kids got to stay there. I can't handle my kids moving from home to home, I really want them to have a measure of stability. (Our current agreement is to swap weekends, and I get two weekdays. It's mutual-ish, so she has the keys to my apartment and the option of staying there over the weekend while I watch the kids if she so desires. Also, legally we're still married so my situation may just be different).


Ah... "Nesting" is the popular term for that. You keep the kids in the same house, and the parents swap back and forth.

That's a tough one to make work. It's an option we considered briefly early on, but I don't think it'd be practical for us.



Pb.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

PB - what you and caladan are discussing is what's known as "nesting". i.e. the kids stay in one place and the parents move in and out. 

This is great for the kids - but can be hard on the parents over a long-term. Also - you will go from supporting 1 household to potentially 3 living spaces. I know of a couple who share an apartment and take turns in the house. But you need a level of trust to do that. Could you share an apartment with your stbxw? Would she share one with you? If not - then you'll each need your own place.

My stbxw wanted to live in our house during separation - another option - but that just didn't work for me. We discussed nesting, but I refused to pay for an apartment (our home is paid off) and my stbxw did not want to split one. So in the end, my stbxw moved out. After all, she was the one who wanted more "freedom".

At first I had the kids except for every other weekend. After two months - my stbxw wanted 50/50 so now we are alternating weeks.

We exchange on Sunday. My kids (12 and 14) have adapted far better than I expected - kids adapt. Another idea when you go alternating weeks is to have Weds as the kids dinner night with the other spouse so that you both don't have to go 7 days without seeing your kids. My kids are too busy with practices after school to do this, so we go 7 days straight. I've adapted - it's amazing how much free time you have on your "week off". 

Re: toxic divorced friends - These are the biggest problem in my case too. When we separated we had a parenting plan, we were amicable (considering) and everything was set. Within one week of separating, my stbxw was coming up with all sorts of "demands". Her toxic separated/divorced girlfriends were giving her all sorts of "advice". Ended up making everything VERY adversarial. So I have had to spend thousands on legal advice just to protect my interests. 

Good luck.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> I would consider it, but...
> 
> 
> She doesn't make quite enough on her own to easily afford the current mortgage payment.
> ...


Fair enough.

I see things from the perspective that I'd rather suffer than let my kids suffer. I can tell you now, it's certainly not easy, but it's worth it. To me.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> PB - what you and caladan are discussing is what's known as "nesting". i.e. the kids stay in one place and the parents move in and out.
> 
> This is great for the kids - but can be hard on the parents over a long-term. Also - you will go from supporting 1 household to potentially 3 living spaces. I know of a couple who share an apartment and take turns in the house. But you need a level of trust to do that. Could you share an apartment with your stbxw? Would she share one with you? If not - then you'll each need your own place.
> 
> ...


Cedarman,

I'm ambitious and perhaps a bit vain. I'll pay off the mortgage on this one in 2-3 years, and then I'll try and get another one in the area.

My kids are 6 and 7, with the 7 year old being quite a sensitive mommy's boy, he's an emotional magnet for any negativity within a hundred yards. 

Then again, while she was the one who asked for freedom, I was pretty much done myself, so why not? We'd stayed married for the most part for the kids, trust me, "nesting" so far is a lot easier (though more expensive) than living together as man and wife.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

timeforpain said:


> First, given what you've said, she has pretty much zero chance of grabbing the kids and the assets for herself and getting you to pay her alimony and/or support. At least in a no-fault divorce (I suppose she could try and go the fault route in Illinois... but I'll assume she doesn't have grounds for it).


I think she's seriously over-estimating her chances if it goes to court, regardless of fault or no-fault.

Aside from financial issues, she has a work schedule that changes from day to day and week to week, and includes working evenings and weekends.

Most days, I'm the one who sees them off to school in the morning, and home from school in the evening.

Plus, the kids are 13 and 14 years old... Certainly old enough to have an opinion on the issue of custody scheduling. I've already talked to them about it, they're close enough to both of us that they'd rather keep a more equal split in the schedule.



timeforpain said:


> If I were you, I'd be pissed too: you almost had an amicable and affordable divorce before this and now you may be heading down a rough road. Contested divorces are expensive, take forever, usually destroy any chance of maintaining a working long-term relationship with your spouse, and often take a severe toll on the kids. Who would want that?


My point of view, exactly.



timeforpain said:


> She may eventually calm down and revert to the "let's just get this done" plan. You can hope.


Yeah, I'm planning on a sort of legal "rope-a-dope", here... Wait it out, stick to my guns, and let her wear herself out with her lawyer. I don't need my lawyer to negotiate for me, I only hired him to draft the papers and eventually file them for me.

I'll wait and see what she comes back with from her attorney. There's an even chance that her attorney, too, will advise her that she's being unreasonable.

Right now, she can't file a no-fault without my agreement (we've been separated for more than 6 months, but less than two years), so I can wait out her crazy for now.



timeforpain said:


> But if I were you, here's what I would do: take the high road (easier said than done when you're upset) and tell her something like "I can see you have some objections to the plan the lawyer drew up. But I don't see anything here we can't work through. Why don't we sit down and work out the details with a mediator. Mediation has an extremely high rate of success, and we will almost certainly be happier with the outcome than if we battle this out with lawyers. Plus we'll be done sooner, it will cost less, the kids won't have to suffer through a trial, and we can keep a semblance of civility in our relationship as coparents. The mediator is completely neutral and there are tons of them in the area. If you wanted to suggest one we could probably get started on this next week."


Heh... That's pretty much what I tried when she first went all stubborn on me. It didn't work. She accused me of shouting and yelling at her, and used that as an excuse to kill the conversation.

Note that none of what I say is a lie or a manipulation: it's all true. 



timeforpain said:


> If you can't get her to agree with the default 50/50 plan, then a mediator will help you tremendously because they will almost certainly steer her toward that same deal. And you don't look like the bad guy in that setting... she does for trying to take everything for herself.


It's something I've mentioned previously, but she mostly ignored the suggestion. Either way, I have plenty of documentation that I'm trying to be reasonable and fair, despite her assertions to the contrary.



Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> PB-Isn't it a coincidence her g/f is..................a lawyer. I wonder who your W will use......hmmmmmm. Honestly, the attorney friend is lacing her up to take her case a rake in some cash.


Her lawyer friend is not a family law attorney. I believe she is, however, referring DW to the attorney she used for her divorce.



Pb.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

All this makes my blood run cold. I just want my STBXH to pay SOMETHING. The guy tells me has no money (but can still make payments on his boat) and won't give me a dime to help support the kids.

He says he'll agree to 50/50 split in costs "in theory" but says he has no money! He says that I won't be happy until he's in a homeless shelter and then you can't beat a dead horse, etc, etc. He's always got an excuse for not doing the right thing. He's more interested in us meeting once a week for coffee and having a "chat" then figuring out what we need to do about this divorce. I think he's still in denial. 

I just want out of this marriage before he goes any deeper into debt and his debts become mine. Neither of us can afford a lawyer. We have no real assets and he is the one with all the debt, which I want him to keep for himself. 

All this shuffling the kids around every other day would make my head spin. I'd prefer if our son spent 2 weeks at his place and 2 weeks at mine. We only live a few miles apart but I don't have any faith in my husband actually taking proper care of my son. He had him with him this past summer and fall and the results weren't good and he just makes it more difficult for me to parent my son. He's a terrible role model too. 

I have yet to get my papers back (am waiting on a fee waiver since it cost nearly $300 just to file) and then I want to sit down and work it out but my H is so emotionally unstable I don't know what he'll pull. 

I feel for you PB, but it sounds like you are going to have to lawyer up because you got a house in the mix and your wife sounds like she's gotten some bad advice from some one. You don't want her to be the only one with a lawyer. 

Good luck. You sound like a decent guy who is looking to do good by her and your kids. It must be nice. She should try living with MY husband for awhile, it would give her a whole new perspective.


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## timeforpain (Apr 29, 2012)

PB,

It sounds like you have your head on straight and are thinking in terms of what's best for the kids first-and-foremost. I can really respect that.

I don't know about the "rope-a-dope" strategy... I hope it works for you, but be careful. I don't know how it works in your state, but in Colorado all debts acquired during the marriage (including after temp orders go into effect after you file) are marital debts. So you have a lot of exposure while waiting around...

And counselors have told me there are drawbacks to prolonging the process (emotional costs to you and the kids), but I'm sure you've thought through this.

My advice (which again you should take with a grain of salt given my newb-ness here): Keep taking the high-road. You'll never regret it. Keep talking about "fair and equal" and let her one-sided-ness work against her. Never complain about her in front of her kids, and if they complain about her, be neutral (the kids are genetically 50% mom, and they know that). Try to NEVER yell or become angry in front of her, the mediator, the judge, etc., even if you are sorely tempted to: it only hurts you.

Best of luck, and keep posting on your progress!


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

timeforpain said:


> I don't know how it works in your state, but in Colorado all debts acquired during the marriage (including after temp orders go into effect after you file) are marital debts. So you have a lot of exposure while waiting around...
> 
> And counselors have told me there are drawbacks to prolonging the process (emotional costs to you and the kids), but I'm sure you've thought through this.
> 
> My advice (which again you should take with a grain of salt given my newb-ness here): Keep taking the high-road.


:iagree: As hard as it is, best thing to do is get it over with. I'm in that mindset as well. Also, the longer things go on, the angrier I become and I want to get divorced ASAP because my STBXH isn't paying on his debts and his debts will eventually become MY debts. He's agreed to keep his debts his own but until we are divorced that's not doing me any good. 

So doing it amicably would be the best thing, but if she's looking for a fight then what do you do? It's a tough situation. :scratchhead: Best thing to do though it to be the "good guy", especially since it seems guys tend to get the short end of the stick so often so you want to come out looking good in any case.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

Last Friday, STBXW had her first visit with the lawyer recommended by her friend.

She hasn't mentioned anything about how it went, but... Last night I logged onto the internet to pay some bills. I couldn't help but notice that the browser's history was full of websites for real estate listings, mortgage and down payment assistance programs, and info on applying for WIC and food stamps.

Perhaps he talked a little sense into her, and helped her realize that my offer isn't as "unreasonable" and "unacceptable" as she first thought?

I'll give it another day or two, and then ask her how the meeting went and what she thinks.



Pb.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Wow - food stamps? I thought you said she had a decent income?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

caladan said:


> Wow - food stamps? I thought you said she had a decent income?


She works at a popular wholesale warehouse store. She used to be an early morning stocker. Back in August, she was promoted to front end supervisor -- which means she's in charge of the cashiers when she's on shift -- and came with a pretty hefty raise.

Let me put it this way... Together, our combined gross incomes _almost_ break six figures, and percentage-wise her yearly gross income is about 92% of mine.

I think instead of looking at her current pay rate and extrapolating forward, she's been looking at last year's YTD earnings, which includes 8 months of much lower pay as a stocker.

There's no way she'll ever qualify for WIC or food stamps.



Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

PB-Reality has a way of dispelling these mythical conceptions of fantasy. She is reconsidering her prior strategy. In the very near future, you should see a change in her demeanor. I may have missed the thread but why did the two of you D? If there is a thread LMK


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> I may have missed the thread but why did the two of you D? If there is a thread LMK


_"Let me 'splain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up."_ *- Inigo Montoya*

There were a lot of little things and some big things that contributed over the years. But I think the primary source of our issues boiled down to this...

My wife has a lot of unsolved issues from her truly terrible childhood. Amongst them, she has an addiction of sorts to emotional affairs, she has trust issues, she has an overwhelming desire to always be correct, and she has a tendency to run and hide from problems instead of facing them and working them out. Plus... I am not psychologist and I can't say for certain that she has it, but she displays most of the symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder.

We also had other stressors that might not have been root causes, but compounded the troubles... I worked a rotating shift for the first 7 years of our marriage. I was recently diagnosed as very mildly ADHD -- I had recognized the symptoms since I was a kid, but didn't know what it meant until now. Our son has high-functioning autism and possibly ADHD as well, but wasn't diagnosed until he was nearly 6 years old. Both of us had a lot of unrelated problems with our respective families.

The posts in this blog http://www.shrink4men.com/index/ describe our relationship pretty accurately.

I was getting blamed for every problem that cropped up in our marriage, and I believed it, too. I quite literally drove myself crazy trying to fix the problems, to be a better husband and father, to make her happy... I did everything she ever asked me to do and I never did any of it right and it was never good enough. I even volunteered to go to marriage counseling with her, but she always refused. Meanwhile, she was having a string of emotional affairs one after the other, with all the consequences that that implies.

After years of this, I was ill and exhausted emotionally, mentally and physically. I was affecting me, it was affecting my relationships and it was affecting my family. I'll admit that under that funk, I made plenty of my own mistakes, and some of them were pretty big. Big enough that I started to wake up and realize how much I'd changed.

In the past year, I discovered that she made out with a co-worker at a party, that she had been sexting with a different co-worker (who was engaged to his girlfriend at the time, that she had been having emotional affairs with at least three different men, and that she had been lying about me and badmouthing me behind my back to all our friends.

She put the blame for her doing all these things on me... back in May, I finally had something of an emotional breakdown, and _she_ used that and everything else she blamed on me as an excuse to give me the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech, move into the guest room in the basement, and threaten divorce.

Since then, all my efforts at reconciliation have been met with assertions that I need to give up, let go and move on... that we aren't a family any more, just two people with kids.

I went to counseling myself, did my homework, figured out what was actually going on, started preparing myself for what she was asking for, and waited the necessary six months.

Now, she's all surprised and caught off guard, because I'm moving forward and following through on all the things we discussed two months back, when we talked about divorce and custody and splitting finances and such...

Realize that most of this I didn't understand what was actually going on until very recently as I started to get my own head put back on straight. As it was all happening, I had always truly believed that all our problems were my fault and that it was all up to me to change and fix them.

And that was _short_ story.



Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> In the very near future, you should see a change in her demeanor.


Oh, I already have... She's been uncommonly subdued since last weekend. I think it's a combination of the reality check on her actual chances of getting everything in a divorce, and the guy that she's been crushing on and stalking making clear his lack of interest in her.

I've been reading through the posts and threads you and Zillard have written... It's a little eerie how similar our situations are.


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Egh who would want to return to that mess. The more hoops you jump through, the more agitated they become. Sounds like you took your ball n bat and went to another playground.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

She met with her lawyer almost two weeks ago, and I'm still waiting to hear back from her...

So, I sent her an email this morning:



> I've a few questions that I didn't want to forget about...
> 
> 
> Taxes. How do you want to handle them for last year? A joint return would give us both the biggest return, if we can trust each other to split it fairly (I think you'll have more withholdings, but I'll have more deductions, so we'd have to take a closer look if you didn't want to just split it 50/50). The other option is to file "married but separate", which would give less to both of us overall, but we'd each be responsible for our own tax return. If we filed married but separate, we both have to file the same way... Either we both itemize deductions (which wouldn't be fair to you), or we both use the standard deduction (which wouldn't be fair to me). If it doesn't make a difference to you, I'd prefer to file jointly.
> ...


Let's see what happens.


Pb.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Divorce is never what she really wanted. Suppressing you and controlling you is what she gets off on. You took the control away and now she's panicking and trying not to let you see that you nailed her with a nice left hook. Keep up the pressure and keep moving forward, like a plough through the snow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Divorce is never what she really wanted. Suppressing you and controlling you is what she gets off on. You took the control away and now she's panicking and trying not to let you see that you nailed her with a nice left hook. Keep up the pressure and keep moving forward, like a plough through the snow.


Oh, I agree... That's exactly the vibe I'd been getting from her lately.

And yeah... It's my legal "rope-a-dope"... Keep it polite, keep it respectful, keep it reasonable, keep it honest, keep it fair. Ignore the bluster and the saber-rattling. Let her wear herself out with threats she can't back up and and her unrealistic demands and her delusions of grandeur.

I'm not happy about it, because I'd rather get this over with and move on, but I can wait out her crazy.


Pb.


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## caladan (Nov 2, 2012)

Hey bro - Do you want to get back with her? Would you consider it if she came back?

I'm just wondering where you are at the moment.


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## Lazarus (Jan 17, 2011)

caladan said:


> Hey bro - Do you want to get back with her? Would you consider it if she came back?
> 
> I'm just wondering where you are at the moment.



I was thinking the same as I read through this thread.

If both want stress reduced, the current tact increases stress.

How are the kids coping?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

From what he has told us its not her M.O. to come back. She has spent their entire marriage being in charge. No he needs to see the divorce through. Only if she dropped to her knees on the courthouse steps begging him not to go through with it will she have conceeded defeat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Even if she did that at the courthouse, see it through. Make her realize it. You can date after D. Heck you can marry her the same day you are D. You just have to wait 30 days to marry another person. D is like a death of an older family member. When you're at the funeral, you still "see" them. It's the third or fourth day later it hits you out of nowhere. Ds are the same way. She can see you at a BDSM club with three hot gals and..........lol can't do a thing about it! Too many people make rash judgements without taking into account the aftermath.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

caladan said:


> Hey bro - Do you want to get back with her? Would you consider it if she came back?


Right now? No.

I've given every chance to work toward reconciliation, and she's refused every time. And in the meantime, her choices and actions have pushed things too far to go back.



Lazarus said:


> If both want stress reduced, the current tact increases stress.


You are presuming that both of us want stress reduced.



Lazarus said:


> How are the kids coping?


As well as can be expected... In all honesty, aside form DW living in the spare bedroom, the family dynamic hasn't actually changed much. The kids know what's going on, and outwardly they're being sillier, more helpful, more affectionate... They can tell we're not exactly happy and they're trying to make up for it.


Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

She still hasn't responded to the email.

In the meantime...

The other day, she told me she was going to go see a movie with some friends from work. When she came home from the movie, she she pulled me aside and changed her story suddenly. Instead, she went on a dinner-and-a-movie date with a guy she works with. Apparently, he wants to take her home to meet his parents. 

Also, when she talks to her girl friends, she's still singing the song that she's aiming for the whole enchilada.

However, when I told my attorney about the lawyer she's workign with, he said, _"If [STBXW] is working with [STBXW's Lawyer], I would welcome it. [STBXW's Lawyer] is a very reasonable attorney and I have a good relationship with him. He will not try to sell us or [STBXW] on something that is unattainable."_

He went on, _"Based on our prior discussions, I think our settlement positions are fair. Based on the budgets, I could possibly see some support going back and forth, but if you two have near 50% of the time with your kids, I do not see the full 28% being warranted, given you both make similar amounts. I think it is more likely to see some contribution from you to her for the health insurance premiums."_

And also, _"So long as both of you are good parents, which I have not heard anything else to the contrary, you both stand to have primary custody. However, as I think we both discussed, your case does not seem to be an issue of the title of custody, but more likely time with the children and only naming someone custodian for school purposes."_

Which is all pretty much what I'd expected. Hopefully, we can collectively bring STBXW back down to Earth.


Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Learned yesterday that she's been telling people that I've punched my son.

This is getting unbelievable.

And she still isn't answering my emails and texts about divorce matters. I'm considering contacting her lawyer directly, just to find out what the hold up is.


Pb.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> Learned yesterday that she's been telling people that I've punched my son.
> 
> This is getting unbelievable.
> 
> ...


Good idea and start carrying a VAR on you when she is around you.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Good idea and start carrying a VAR on you when she is around you.


I simply stopped talking to her about any of it... She later "edits" the conversations so heavily. Now, anything I have to talk to her about the divorce I send via email or text, and I've backing them up once a week, just so I'll have a real copy of what we both actually said.

In other news, I also signed up for a county-judicial-sponsored divorce education program for parents, and I've been keeping a parenting journal of the time I spend with my kids and the work I do to take care of them.

It really sucks to have to resort to these sorts of measures.


Pb.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

The VAR is for your protection. She may try to trump up false abuse charges. Do it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Pb-She is resorting to desperate tactics. Good idea to document and copy everything. Honestly, I would VAR anything verbal and......let her know it. Oh if she did not file a police report about your "alleged" striking of child.....she is either full of sh!t or a pathetic mother.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

GutPunch said:


> The VAR is for your protection. She may try to trump up false abuse charges. Do it.


Okay, I'm not sure I understand how a VAR would protect against false abuse charges... The abuse could always have happened while the VAR was turned off. Or maybe I erased that part of the recording after all, who records themselves commkting acts of abuse?


Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

It doesn't turn off...it's voice activated


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Pb-She is resorting to desperate tactics. Good idea to document and copy everything. Honestly, I would VAR anything verbal and......let her know it. Oh if she did not file a police report about your "alleged" striking of child.....she is either full of sh!t or a pathetic mother.


Here's the thing... when our kids were young, they got spanked now and again. Both of us did it. And it never got anywhere near abuse. Eventually, they got old enough that spanking wasn't really working anymore, so we stopped.

Now, my son has high-functioning autism. Sometimes -- and when he was younger, very often -- if he gets angry or frustrated or upset, he can get physically violent. He'll end up throwing a yelling, screaming, hitting, kicking tantrum. He'll have to be wrestled down and restained to keep him from hurting himself or others. I've had to do it, my wife has as well, even his teachers at school have had to often enough.

It's very, very rare any more, as he's learned better coping strategies, and we've learned better ways to respond. But about a year and a half ago, my son had one last bad episode... He was throwing a tantrum, and I was doing my best to NOT hurt him, and because of that he caught me off guard and punched me right in the face. I stumbled, fell back, and I think I hit my head on a door jamb so hard that I blanked out the next few hours... couldn't remember a thing for the rest of the morning.

She never believed me... She always thought I was fist-fighting him or something. Even though I had a lump the size of a baseball on my head and a black eye for a week and a half, and he didn't have a scratch on him. Afterward, he couldn't even remember exactly how it happened, what he was so mad about, or why he did it.

So, now she tells people that I punched him, even though it was really the other way around.

But no... she's never filed a police report.


Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

The moment you decide to divorce, the game is on. Forget all those prior promises about how nice and smooth things will go. Ultimately, your spouse is a stranger. They are no longer in it for the both of you since you are working on a divorce, and naturally, they begin to look out for themselves. Add the ideas the lawyers put into people's heads, things friends say, etc, and bam, you get a mess.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

ItsGonnabeAlright said:


> The moment you decide to divorce, the game is on. Forget all those prior promises about how nice and smooth things will go. Ultimately, your spouse is a stranger. They are no longer in it for the both of you since you are working on a divorce, and naturally, they begin to look out for themselves. Add the ideas the lawyers put into people's heads, things friends say, etc, and bam, you get a mess.


Yep.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

One more step forward... Maybe I can really start to get things moving, now!

So, about a month ago, I'd sent my wife an email asking her what was going on... What was the contact info for her lawyer, did she or her lawyer have any questions or concerns about the first draft of the papers, did her lawyer need any information from me, could she please send her financial info to my lawyer, etc... She never answered.

About once a week, I'd renew the queries with a email or text asking for an update... She never answered.

Okay. Two days ago, I sent the following email to my wife's lawyer...



> Mr. _[Wife's Lawyer]_,
> 
> Hello, my name is _[Pbartender]_, and I have a rather odd question for you.
> 
> ...


(I'd seen his business card lying around and she left a copy of her toxic friend's divorce papers, which were prepared by him, on our computer desk... I presumed TF recommended him to my STBXW.)

Just this morning, I finally get an email back from her...



> I met with an attorney and he and I have recently decided that we can work together, his name is _[Wife's Lawyer]_ (_[Wife's Lawyer's Law Firm]_) and he will contact with your attorney soon if he has not already done so.
> 
> It is my understanding that the best way for me to address my questions etc regarding the paperwork and financial decisions to my attorney, like I said earlier, in the interest of avoiding confrontational discussions I think it is best at this point if communication regarding the divorce is handled by the legal specialists that we have hired for that purpose.
> 
> At this point, when we have not even given the attorneys the opportunity to work out a settlement it seems an unnecessary expense to involve yet another set of people (mediators) in the process. As neither of us can move out in the near future and the home situation is not unsafe for any of us, I think patience with the process is our best path right now.


Interesting... There seems to a gross misunderstanding on her part.

First, I never hired my attorney to handle any communication for me. I hired him primarily to prepare paperwork and to file it with the court system, and secondarily for his expertise and his advise, when I should need it.

Second, I never wanted attorneys to work out the settlement for us. I still don't. I have always wanted to just work it out between us. Furthermore, her attorney IS a mediator and was recommended as one by my attorney. For my part, I would be perfectly happy using him as such.

Third, if I wanted to I could move out tomorrow. For that matter, so could she, if she really wanted to.

Lastly, it is simply ridiculous to hear her espousing patience with the process, when just a few months ago, she was saying things like, "I thought we had agreed to file for divorce a week from Friday & am unwilling to wait until next July to do so." and "Staying together because it is logistically and financially difficult to separate is a poor choice, and one that I am not willing to consider." and "I think it would be best to divorce ASAP."

At any rate, as I'm typing this, I just got an email back from my attorney...



> I ran into _[Wife's Lawyer]_ today and he did advise me he is being retained by _[STBXW]_. We talked briefly about the case and we think we can reach an amicable resolution. It is my understanding he will discuss our proposed agreements with _[STBXW]_. We also discussed possibly using a mediator for you two to save some money in the hopes of reaching an agreement. One caution is apparently _[STBXW]_ is not entirely onboard with a 50/50 split of the parenting time, so that, along with support may be issues we look at.
> 
> I just wanted to let you know where we stand. Contact me if you to talk about this.


Fantastic. Looks like the ball is finally rolling. I'm going to schedule a meeting with my guy to see what's going on.

More later.


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

They seem to occur in bunches don't they? LOL


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Well, I have to say my attorney was very slightly and very briefly annoyed with me for doing an end run with that email to my wife's lawyer. But, it certainly did kick things into gear...

The initial assessment is that my position is pretty sound. The only big sticking point seems to be that I'd prefer 50/50 custody and reserved child support, whereas she wants a majority share of the kids' time and for me to pay her child support.

Fortunately, I can make a solid case that I'm already doing most of the parenting. He suggested that I start keeping a parenting journal of the time I spend with the kids, and other related housekeeping duties (I already have), and also that I keep track of when and how often STBXW is not at home in the evenings and on the weekends.

I'm tired of waiting, though. We're going to give her and her attorney a week to respond, and then I'm filing next Thursday... on Valentine's Day.

:smthumbup:


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

your lawyer works for you.....if you do leg work....his misgiving. he gets upset?.....well mister lawyerdude......tough sh!t! bust my balls......i want things sped up.....you dont? that's right.....you are like a streetwalker....you are paid by the hour. my bad


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> your lawyer works for you.....if you do leg work....his misgiving. he gets upset?.....well mister lawyerdude......tough sh!t! bust my balls......i want things sped up.....you dont? that's right.....you are like a streetwalker....you are paid by the hour. my bad


"Oh, Lisa... Just because I don't _care_, that doesn't mean I don't _understand_." - Homer Simpson


Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

BREAKTHROUGH!

:smthumbup: :corkysm60: :toast: :yay: :woohoo: ray:

Email from STBXW this morning...



> Our only point of contention at this point seems to be how to share custody of the children... I had a few ideas that I would like you to think about (at least one based on an idea that you bounced off of me during a time when I was to angry to listen).
> 
> 1. I feel that having the kids go back and forth on an alternating weekly schedule would be very difficult, for us and for them. Something that might work better: the kids are with me on Monday-Wednesday and with you on Thursday-Friday each week, we alternate weekends. I would ask; however, that the plans that I have made with _[DS]_ for April & with _[DD]_ for Labor day still happen regardless of the rotation (I will gladly trade equal time with them on other dates).
> 
> 2. At one point you had suggested letting the kids stay in the house and having the two of us be the ones who rotated our time... this is something that I think we should think about & perhaps try for a limited time (1 year?). Following the schedule I had outlined above...


All right! Maybe we can get this done, now!


Pb.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

What she is talking about for #1 is called 2-2-3 and is a typical rotation.

It can be considered much harder to keep up on school projects etc with them switching every mid week.

We currently do a 2 week rotation.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

UpnOver said:


> What she is talking about for #1 is called 2-2-3 and is a typical rotation.
> 
> It can be considered much harder to keep up on school projects etc with them switching every mid week.
> 
> We currently do a 2 week rotation.


I've seen it called a 5-5-2-2 rotation, for us, it would look like this:

*STBWX:* Friday 3:30pm - Wednesday 7:30am (Fri-Sat-Sun nights + Mon night & Tue night)
*ME:* Wednesday 3:30pm - Monday 7:30am (Wed night and Thu night + Fri-Sat-Sun nights)
*STBXW:* Monday 3:30pm - Wednesday 7:30am (Mon night & Tue night)
*ME:* Wednesday 3:30pm - Friday 7:30am (Wed night and Thu night)

Her main concern, it would seem, was that she works in retail, and has to work a certain number of closing shifts and a certain number of weekend days every week. On an alternating weekly schedule (which was the first suggestion for the reasons you mention, amongst others), there'd be plenty of nights when the kids would be home alone from right after school until 10:30 or 11:00 at night.

This sort of schedule gives her the same two nights every week guaranteed without the kids... She'll be able to schedule her late shifts for those nights, and be home early when she's got them.

That I can understand and agree with. It just would have been so much easier (and less expensive!) had she just said so four months ago.


Pb.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Pbartender said:


> I've seen it called a 5-5-2-2 rotation, for us, it would look like this:
> 
> *STBWX:* Friday 3:30pm - Wednesday 7:30am (Fri-Sat-Sun nights + Mon night & Tue night)
> *ME:* Wednesday 3:30pm - Monday 7:30am (Wed night and Thu night + Fri-Sat-Sun nights)
> ...



But this schedule stuff wouldn't have made for titillating conversation with the toxic friend. Remember, she was going to take you to the cleaners or whatever.

You're very accommodating and a great dad. I hope you get what you want - please make sure you get the 50%! Sounds like you should be making a few demands of your own in order to meet "halfway".


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

staystrong said:


> You're very accommodating and a great dad. I hope you get what you want - please make sure you get the 50%!


For me, it's really the only thing that's worth fighting over right now.



staystrong said:


> Sounds like you should be making a few demands of your own in order to meet "halfway".


I'm trying to figure out if there's a way she can help me pay down some of my debts. That'd be a big help budget-wise.

Unfortunately, the only asset we have that's worth anything is my retirement account. And while she'll be getting part of it, I can't touch it without taking penalties.


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Offer to pay her monthly for being an actress. Huh? She acted as if she cared about you throughout the marriage. It was a good stage act. Then pull retirement off the table. Or from John Stuart Mills...yes take my retirement but you absorb all penalties incurred.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Or from John Stuart Mills...yes take my retirement but you absorb all penalties incurred.


With a QDRO, there's no penalties... With her portion, she can either A) keep it as a separate 401A account will no penalty or taxes, B) roll it over to and IRA with no penalty or taxes, or C) cash it out and pay 20% tax but no early withdrawal penalty.

I was thinking about the possibility of giving her a larger share of the retirement account, and then stipulating that she either pays me a lump sum in cash or she pays off all our credit cards (none of them are joint accounts, but here they're all considered marital debt).


Pb.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

Filed the Petition for Dissolution yesterday, and will discuss with my STBXW's attorney waiving the need to formally serve her the papers.

Her attorney has already acknowledged receipt of the petition and is talking about not even filing a response, if we can resolve it quickly.

Of course, that will all depend on STBXW. Everyone else involved is skooching right along.


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

$50 says she will drag her a$$.......wanting to "review" documents
translation-she is scared chitless


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> $50 says she will drag her a$$.......wanting to "review" documents
> translation-she is scared chitless


Well, that was the whole point of filing, Chuck... Now she's on a deadline. There's a 30-day waiting period for her to file a response. If they don't, and we still haven't come to an agreement by then, then I get to move on without her input.

Her lawyer won't let that happen, if he can help it. He's okay with not filing a response, but only if we've agreed on all terms.


Pb.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Good.....let her a$$ be in the hot seat for a change


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> Good.....let her a$$ be in the hot seat for a change


So, it's been a week and a half since I filed, and I'm beginning to think she doesn't realize the position she's in, or understand what's going on. Ten days since I filed the petition, and we haven't yet heard anything back from either her or her attorney.

If she doesn't start speaking up soon, I'll be able to dictate any terms I want (and that the judge agrees to) for the divorce agreement and joint parenting agreement.

But it seems she's too busy with posOM to notice... Still stuck in the fog.

Heard she was bragging to a mutual friend about lying to me about where she was going when she goes out to see posOM, so that I wouldn't harangue her about not spending time with the kids.

The funny thing is, I haven't been... The last time she said she was going out on a date, I told her, "Whatever... That's cool. Have fun." 

And honestly, if she'd just move out into her own place, she wouldn't have to worry about it. But then, of course, she wouldn't be able to make up these stories about her mean old husband to justify what she's doing.

Whatever... That's cool. Have fun.


Pb.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

How long does she have to make a formal reply?


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

staystrong said:


> How long does she have to make a formal reply?


From the day she accepts service, she has 30 days to respond. I just heard back from my attorney, and it doesn't sound like she has accepted service. We -- that is me, my attorney and her attorney -- were trying to avoid the drama and hassle of having a Sheriff officially serve her the papers.

But she seems to be avoiding her own attorney, likely in an effort to delay the process.

My guy is following up on it today... Her attorney might be willing to accept service on her behalf, which would get things moving.


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She is dragging this out because
the reality of D is something she does not want to face


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> She is dragging this out because
> the reality of D is something she does not want to face


But, it seemed like so much fun when love was "new" with posOM and she felt "young and alive".


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> She is dragging this out because
> the reality of D is something she does not want to face


Exactly. Just like every other big problem she's ever faced in her life, she can't bluster her way out of it... And she doesn't know how to handle things when that doesn't work.

Turns out, her attorney has filed the Appearance for her, which gets her off the hook. He, at least, is willing to work with us. Recommending him to STBXW as an attorney is the one and only thing I'm glad her toxic friend told her.



Conrad said:


> But, it seemed like so much fun when love was "new" with posOM and she felt "young and alive".


Oh, I'm sure it still seems like fun to her and she still feels "young and alive"... It's what she's hiding behind to avoid dealing with the practical matters of the divorce.



Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

She sounds decrepit and on life support.

Some think they are absolved from consequences

Another aspect of reality

and denial


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> She sounds decrepit and on life support.
> 
> Some think they are absolved from consequences
> 
> ...


That's cool... Whatever. It's only my problem anymore insofar as it's holding up the divorce.

In the meantime...

Inspired by HappyKaty, I'm taking a good, long, hard look at myself... Figuring out where I went wrong, the mistakes I made, the problems I have, and what I need to do it doesn't all happen again. I'm got a good start working on my issues with co-dependency and my tendencies toward nice guy syndrome. Gotta get my brain healthy again.

And my body, too... I'd already lost 50 pounds over the last year, but had leveled off recently. I'm back to eating better. Picked up my own elliptical machine, so I can get some exercising done while I watch Star trek or Doctor Who or Battlestar Galactica. And I just got my Power90 (P90X's little brother) discs in the mail yesterday... The way things are going, I figure I run through the whole 90 day regimen at least once by the time the divorce is final. It'd be nice to show up for the court date without the belly and RIPPED! 

I've been doing more fun things with the kids, too: Roller skating, mini golf, bowling, even just hanging out at home and ordering a pizza and watching movies or playing video games. I helped my daughter dye her hair aquamarine blue... There was bleach left over, so I let her talk me into bleaching my hair to a luscious shade of "orphan orange".

STBXW pretty much keeps to herself. She works late, or goes out late with her friends from work and posOM. She usually sleeps in until me and the kids are off to work and school. By and large, it already feels like I'm a single Dad and she just shows up now and again to visit the kids.

So, aside from STBXW lurking in the basement, I think I'm doing all right so far. Though, it would relieve a lot of stress and tension, though, if she would just move out like she's been planning.


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

$100 says she will not move until D is final. Standard deviation of +/- three days

What's the rush

Living on your own in $$$$$

Security deposit.....paying for everything -gasp- yourself!

Entitled people should not have to do that


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> She is dragging this out because
> the reality of D is something she does not want to face


Like X said, crying, when I gave her back my ring - "Cuz now it's getting real"

She didn't pick an apt until the day I served her. Acceptance of service wasn't filed until I took it to the courthouse. She didn't move out until I rented a truck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Chuck71 said:


> $100 says she will not move until D is final. Standard deviation of +/- three days
> 
> What's the rush
> 
> ...


Much tougher to party-it-up and be the sex kitten when you need to come up with your own cash.


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## Pbartender (Dec 6, 2012)

Chuck71 said:


> $100 says she will not move until D is final. Standard deviation of +/- three days


:iagree:

Yeah... That's not a bet I'm likely to take. I already figured that's what's probably going to happen.

Four months ago, she was all, "Let's get it done ASAP," and "I'm not willing to wait," and "We can file as soon as this Friday!"

Now, she saying things like, "I think patience with the process is our best path right now."

:rofl:

Now _THERE'S_ a 180, for you. :lol:


Pb.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Sounds like she was caught smoking in the girl's bathroom in high school..........had perfect attendance her first eleven years.....well she won't for twelve....


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