# I was the witch in my story, please help!!!



## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

For the past couple of months I've been wanting to post here but never could. Now I must. 

Exactly 3 weeks ago my husband of almost 6 years (would have been in june) told me he wanted a separation. Days before that, I felt it in my gut that something bad was going to happen. The thing is that I dont blame him. I treated him like crap through out our whole marriage. All because I couldn't let go of the fact that he cheated on me before we got married. We should have talked about this issue before we got married, but we both rushed it because we were both young and in love. We are both 26. 

For years I punished him for the way he made me feel. When he suggested counseling I refused. I was in denial, a fool in denial. Many times I tried to leave him. And he begged and begged so I wouldnt. Even tho I knew that a trial separation was probably for the best, I couldn't leave him. I thought that I could fix it on my own. I was a total jealous control freak. 

Now he resents me and he said that he should have left me years ago. He tells me that he will always care for me, and when I asked him if he loves me said said not like that anymore, not like a man loves a woman. I know I brought this upon myself for treating him so badly, I deserve this. I asked him to please reconsider, and he says he doesn't care anymore. I suggested counseling and he doesn't want to. He says he gave up a long time ago. 

The thing is that I thought I had change, but I guess it was too late. I miss him, I need him, and the pain just wont go away. I talked to him 2 days ago, and he said he is happier without me, he doesnt think of me, and that he doesnt think we will get together again.

I tell him that even tho he feels like he hates me, that he doesnt love me, that he thinks we are never going to get back together, I tell him that I believe we will. Am I in denial? I know that things can work out as long as we both want to, but he doesnt want to try. He resents me so much for what I put him thru. He said I broke him.

I don't deserve him, but I can't live without him! I feel so miserable and so guilty that I had to be like that. Why didn't I stop myself. 

Please someone tell me, is it too late for me? Is there any hope? Could he love me ever again?


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

calm down, I suggest you avoid talking to him because you are making things worse. I know you are in pain prelude, it's been 3 weeks but be strong.

The wound is still open. Yes you are in denial, the fact that he says that he doesn't love you is not important right now since it's too soon, he can just remember all the bad not the good. I am pretty sure that the relationship wasn't as bad as you describe it but you are feeling super guilty and it's normal. You are in denial not about he doesn't love you but that he wants to be away from you. LET go with love, and instead of beating yourself for all those wrongs you did while you were together start working on yourself. 

FORGIVE yourself if you intend to start over, if you can't you will never be able to start the healing process. We are young, we are immature, we are humans, accept it. We are not born knowing everything nor behaving perfectly that's the reason why life teaches us lessons that should be digested and accepted. Learn from them...

It is not too late for you, about your marriage I don't know since it's up to him and also on how you handle it, calm down prelude, for the good of your relationship, we are here to help you.


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## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Prelude,

Listen to stbxhmaybe, don't talk about "us" or the relationship. The more you do -- the further away you will push him. I know, you've seen the light and now want to try to save it by saying I love you, I didn't mean it. But actions speak louder than words at this point. Words are meaningless. If you love him you must show him. And this won't be easy -- it will be the hardest thing you will do. There will be rejection at every turn but you must shrug it off and keep on moving forward.

You need to know that you don't "need" him, you "want" him. There is a big difference. Your life will go on with or without him. You are young, you are imperfect but guess what we are all imperfect. We are all perfectly imperfect.

You need to look at yourself now. Look within and see the why? Blame isn't the thing. No matter what he did to you, or what you did to him blame is meaningless. It takes two to tango, it takes two to crash. If you wait for him to do something then it will be too late. If you take action, first to get yourself together and understand, then work on your relationship, no matter what you will be a better person. In the end that is all you can do, the rest is up to the other.

I suggest going to marriagebuilders.com -- and looking through things there. Just remember to put the relationship talk on hold for a long time. You need to work on you and that means certain things. I'm not saying you don't talk to your H, just don't say things like "I need you", "i can't live without you". He knows those things and right now he is thinking if she did why would she do x, y, and z. Match your actions to the words. Better yet start with the actions then the words.

I've been in your shoes. I am in your shoes. You can't change anyone but yourself. Just be calm. You will get through this. I can't promise you the way you want it now, I can only say you will survive. Good luck. You've taken the first step, admitting your faults. Just follow through on changing them.

Peace.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

Thank you so much for your advice Feelingalone and stbxhmaybe. I really needed to hear this. I have been so caught up on him, and blaming my self for the things I did to be in such place. I was beginning to feel better until I talked to him 2 days ago. In my head I was picturing us together again until he told me how it really is. I really want to move on from this pain because it hurts so much to be without him. We were together 9 years (includes married and dating). And I did tell him those things, that I need him, can't live w/h, etc, and Feelingalone, he did tell me then why did you do x,y and z. 

I just wished I knew what to do to show him, that I have truely change so that he can love me again. This situation just kills me! But I am glad to have found a support system like this.


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

Remember prelude, you cannot change in 3 weeks. I haven't changed completely in 6 weeks either we are changing. A separation may go from 2 to 6 months or even longer so you have to be patient and YES LIVE W/O him. 

If you can't it means you haven't changed. If you show your weak side it means that you haven't looked inside your soul and found all those flaws and started working on them. Being at peace with ourselves means being able to be alone with ourselves without blaming, w/o trying to show him, but just taking action. 

Believe me, at this point the best thing would be to do nothing if you feel like contacting him and talking to him. It sounds illogic but trust me until you get a hold of yourself you will be able to start reconciliation. I need you's, I can't leave without you's I am sorry's etc won't help. You will be ready when you really focus on their needs instead of yours. When you care how was their day instead of why he hasn't called and if he doesn't care that you are dying inside. Go to counseling my friend it helps a lot to let it all out.

REMEMBER this...ask yourself "If I wasn't afraid how would I react" and behave that way.

Peace be with you and be strong


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I don't know. . .this is hard to call.

I have to say if my stb-x had a "mea culpa" like you just exhibited here, full of contrition, fully admitting she treated me like crap, that would have been powerful.

Yes, it probably would have brought me back. . .but I didn't hold my breath of course.

Even if you change and you morph into a "kinder/gentler" person, that doesn't mean you are in alignment with goals and values. To me, it would just mean you are forgiven for your tresspasses.

My stb-x treated me like crap, but her life (and I mean no judgment by this) is simply about accumulation - of things and experiences. She is a good mother too and has the potential to be a good partner. She is responsible. My life is about service and acheivement, and I set goals in that regard. I just barely think about material things (altghough I do like my creature comforts - just dont' want the McMansion and grills and vacations)

Looking back, it was like I was a Klingon marrying a Ferrengi (Star Trek reference). No one race is inherently more flawed. . .they are just different and they keep their distance from each other.

You should do some honest introspection at this time and figure out if you are compatible. My stb-x would deny vehemently she is materialistic but everyone, I mean everyone around her, could see it. And it's not necessarily a bad thing. . .we are spiritual beings have a physical experience so physical things are important. She will match up well with a materialistic man after our divorce and hopefully live happily ever after.

Anyway, part of you treating him like crap may be a frustration of just different values and what motivates you as human beings. Not that that excuses you treating him like crap. . .it just perhaps explains it.

However, let add this - the better solution to this would be to develop some sort of compromise in values/goals vs. divorcing. I wanted to get at the heart of this with stb-x but apparently she was harboring a "back-up" man for years as best I can tell and decided to activate her 'back-up insurance policy" upon my exit.

Things have not gone well for her and her "grand master plan" let's just say but that's another story.

Point is. . .I would always prefer compromise over divorce. It doesn't matter if he's the leaver or the left - it will be just as difficult on both parties. 

Good luck.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

stbxhmaybe<If you can't it means you haven't changed. If you show your weak side it means that you haven't looked inside your soul and found all those flaws and started working on them. Being at peace with ourselves means being able to be alone with ourselves without blaming, w/o trying to show him, but just taking action.>

I really didn't think about this, but thanks for making me see it in a different perspective. I just didn't know how to show him that I change. And you are right, I shouldn't talk to him because when I do it just makes me hate my self even more. It just just very hard to let him go this way, but like you said I need to work on myself and heal. I am going to start counseling because I really need it, otherwise I don't know how else could I go on. 


Scannerguard<Anyway, part of you treating him like crap may be a frustration of just different values and what motivates you as human beings. Not that that excuses you treating him like crap. . .it just perhaps explains it.>

Thanks for your input. 

One but indeed this is one of the reasons why I treated him like this. 1) it was because I wanted to punish him for cheating on me before we got married. 2) it was because I wanted to improve economic situation, we lived with his parents for the past 3-4 years. 

I don't want to get a divorce, I am willing to do whatever it takes to save our marriage. However, he says he doesn't care, that he gave up on us. He resents me so much. He hasn't asked me for a divorce but when I asked him if he wanted one, he said " I think I do." I wish there was part of him that would try to fight for us, but he just doesn't want to. He says that he doesn't love me anymore, he only cares about me. 

Our marriage was not always bad. In fact there were more good times than there were bad. It seems that we had our "I'm leaving you" fights like once a year. And every now and then, I would say something that I shouldn't have. A week before we asked me for a separation he acted like he was happy.

I just wish that he eventually changes his mind. I hope he heals from the pain that Ihave caused him. I know it will not be easy, but I will wait for him as long as it takes. 

Thanks everybody!


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

I am in a similar situation sort of.....I was not nice a lot of the times. I didn't always make it a nice place to come home for him and now I am reeling in my choices I made. I guess there was always a part of me that figured I could do what ever the hell I want and he would be there. I feel pretty ****ing silly right now


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

finallyseewhy said:


> I am in a similar situation sort of.....I was not nice a lot of the times. I didn't always make it a nice place to come home for him and now I am reeling in my choices I made. I guess there was always a part of me that figured I could do what ever the hell I want and he would be there. I feel pretty ****ing silly right now



No kidding! I took him for granted. I also thought that I could say whatever I wanted and he would always be there. Boy was I wrong! Now I am paying the high price, he left me and doesnt think that we have a chance. He resents me for the way I treated him and says he cares for me but doesn't love me. I really wish I could turn back time, I was pretty stupid.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Yep, I feel like I am dying inside right now it has only been 1 week since he has left and I have talked to him several times a day or seen him(we have kids) and last night we did some stuff. I honestly feel like I am dying I know this is normal but I don't honestly know how much more I can handle  I have tired keeping myself busy but it is not helping.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

finallyseewhy said:


> Yep, I feel like I am dying inside right now it has only been 1 week since he has left and I have talked to him several times a day or seen him(we have kids) and last night we did some stuff. I honestly feel like I am dying I know this is normal but I don't honestly know how much more I can handle  I have tired keeping myself busy but it is not helping.


Tell me about it. He left me exactly 3 weeks ago to this day. I have only talked to him twice and it didn't go well. I only saw him once and that was this past Wednesday. I also feel like I want to jump off from the tallest building in the world, but I wont. But all I do is cry and think of him, and I just keep thinking about the stuff we did and I wonder to myself if he is thinking of me too, but when we talked his answer was not at all. He tells me that perhaps in the future we might be friends, ugh. I do miss him, and I feel like I'm no one without him, but I guess I need to move on and heal because I can't stand the pain, it's just too much. We didnt have any kids because I was afraid of something like this. Now I'm thinking that perhaps if we did, I could have an excuse to see him. Too late for that now. But I understand how you feel. I wish there was something we could do to speed time or go back in time to change things, but it doesnt work that way, sadly.


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## saphyre (May 20, 2010)

I am in the same situation. Best wishes to you, and if you figure it out please let me know!! I'm clueless and heart broken.

Best wishes to you


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

I just want to say good luck to everyone who has posted on this thread..regardless of how we have gotten to this point in our life (although they sound errily similar including mine) is beside the point..we are all experiencing different levels of pain and guilt..for me they are one and the same..I wish for everyone to come to a happy ending regardless if it is with the one we want or think we want to be with..some have pointed to incompatibilty as a cause but that's tough to answer for those who have had a lengthy relationship...who really knows why we fall into these situations where it seems that 1 side is in more pain than the other..if anyone has an answer I'd also like to know it.


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

1 is more in pain than the other because most of the times the one that was left is the one that didn't want a separation.

The spouse that decides to separated is out of desperation, and of course he/she will have feelings of rest and peace, even happiness the first weeks after happening. They are resting from all the turmoil, while the other spouse is left with millions of unanswered questions.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

stbxhmaybe-that seems to pretty much sum it up but I have noticed the sides turning the last couple of days in my situation.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

stbxhmaybe said:


> 1 is more in pain than the other because most of the times the one that was left is the one that didn't want a separation.
> 
> The spouse that decides to separated is out of desperation, and of course he/she will have feelings of rest and peace, even happiness the first weeks after happening. They are resting from all the turmoil, while the other spouse is left with millions of unanswered questions.



This is true. My husband told me that he feels much better without me that he doesn't even think of me, and if he does he thinks about our relationship and tells me that he should have left me years ago. He even says that his friends (co-workers) notice that he is happier. While I think I am dying inside and keep asking myself why did he pretend this whole time when I thought things were fine. This past two years I thought were going great compared to the first 4, he showed me many times that I was secure with him, but I guess that's just one mans opinion.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Hey that's a lie and a show.

No matter how much of a witch you were, it's just simply untrue that he's no worse for the wear since you left.

My wife was a witch too and I went thru trauma.

Going thru divorce, you'll find your emotions will pendulously swing - one moment - despair, depression, loneliness. . .others. . .euphoria, freedom, happiness. Everyone goes thru it, whether you are the left or the leaver.

He's hurting like you are, trust me. It doesn't mean you should reconcile necessarily but guys just don't leave their wives and just become "happy" in 1 month. It takes time. I am probably 50-60% better one year later but I still have some flashes of anger, hurt, and loneliness.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Hey that's a lie and a show.
> 
> No matter how much of a witch you were, it's just simply untrue that he's no worse for the wear since you left.
> 
> ...



Have you forgiven your wife yet after what she put you thru? do you have any resentment towards her? is there any chance of reconciliation after this? I guess I'm wondering because I am wondering if he will ever forgive me and try things out again. I hope that he doesn't come yet with the divorce papers because that will really kill me. I really need to work on myself and heal because the pain is just too much. I feel guilty for the way I treated him and now I don't know if he will ever forgive me. How do you cope?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Prelude,
I’m six months separated from my wife, we were together for a very long time. We’re now living in different countries, time, distance and no communication has helped come to a new understanding of our relationship.

During the past six months I recalled that some 20 odd years after we were married my wife accused me of forcing her to marry me by getting her pregnant. The fact that we were together and engaged for 4 years before marrying and she was on the pill wasn’t taken into account at all. I was devastated by the accusation but responded by working on my marriage, but she always refused counselling or to read any books etc. I’ve now come to the realisation that she had held ill will towards from the day we were married. It’s a very sad realisation for me. During our time together there were other false accusations and each time I was devastated. We had numerous what I’ve come to think of as dysfunctional episodes.

I stumbled across “the victim triangle” Drama Triangle: The Three Faces of Victim by Lynne Forrest

This article made more sense to me than anything else I’ve ever read about my relationship with my wife and I read a lot. Even though I was being persecuted I always respond by trying to be the rescuer, the knight in shining armour. The end came when just like the article says I became the persecutor, I turned.

I think you’ve been very brave. You’ve not only recognised where you went wrong you’ve also made a declaration of that fact. I can’t see my wife ever doing that. Even if she did there’s no going back for me. Even if the odds were a million to one that she’d falsely accuse me and persecute me again I will not take that risk.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I agree a lot with what AFEH wrote - my wife has maybe said she was sorry in our relationship maybe 2-3 times at the most? Not with the sense of contrition I sense in your posts either. She is a very self-righteous and entitled person and that led to the collapse of our marriage.

But. . .but. . .I can start to see some things I did wrong too and not just the normal "I took her dung for too long."

Anyway, let me answer your questions:



> Have you forgiven your wife yet after what she put you thru?


You know, that's an interesting question. Forgiveness usually comes pretty easily for me as a person and very hard for her. I have found, for the first time in my life, that it's really being put to the test.

To answer your question, yes. . .somewhat - I am in the process. I can sort of see she's just a product of what was handed to her. She was brought up in a very "spoiled" atmosphere (parents never had a mortgage) and I knew it when I married her but I ignored it. In a lot of ways, she represents a lot of Generation X's faults - very entitleistic.

But she works hard and is a good mother too.

Anyway, forgiveness just isn't really a one time event. . .it's a slow process of letting it go. I'd say I am 50-60% there. . .I feel it tipping.



> do you have any resentment towards her?


Well, forgiveness and resentment are inversely correlated, aren't they? You know it's funny, one moment I am really fine and then something will well up in me. Like this poor poster on the Sex and Marriage forum brought up a bad memory of early on in our relationship where my wife was "scheduling sex" for conception every 28 days instead of having a sex life with some g.d. normalcy.

I then got angry and probably came down too hard on the poster. Of course, my anger and resentmetn was misplaced. I was really yelling at my wife by proxy.



> is there any chance of reconciliation after this?


I doubt it. 

I have come to the conclusion that my wife and I are Klingons and Ferrengi. That's probably an obscure Star Trek reference but any Trekkie will get it.

The Klingons (me) are the bad-asses of the universe. They concern themselves with honor, conquest, achievement, and battle. They are emotional creatures. They were initially enemies with humans but they grew into an alliance - seperate cultures and law but they come to each other's aid. Klingons also enjoyed "arts" such as opera. Think of bad-ass motorbikers liking opera or something.

The Ferrengi in Star Trek were first portrayed kind of badly - they were greedy, sniveling aliens always interested in making money. Gold, gold, and gold - very materialistic. Later on, as you got to know the nuances of the alien race, they were about collaboration, partnership, and business ventures/agreements. They became allies to the humans in that they realized synergy is important.

Anyway, the Klingons and Ferrengis are just 2 very different "races" with value subsets that are different. And they hated each other - the Klingons said the Ferrengi had no honor and the Ferrengi just detested the Klingons.

I think essentially we speak 2 different languages about what motivates us. Money and accumulatin do not motivate me. It just doesn't.

And actually, for the first time in my life, I have learned to speak "Ferrengi" during the divorce as I make every interaction with my wife as "business-like." The "business" of child-rearing, deploying assets and liquidating them. Once I had this epiphany, it was actually kind of a relief to be able to talk to her, even if the communication is just about the divorce.

Because essentially that is what the marriage was to her - a business transaction. MARRIAGE *IS *A BUSINESS (and thus I can see some of the things I did to contribute to it's downfall). . .so in a way, I can see she wasn't really wrong - just a different perspective.

But I really, REALLY loved her. . .I am not sure how much she appreciated that. When I say I would have died for her without one second of thought, I mean that. But that's the way I think.

And it's not that she's a "cold person" per se. . .it's just that once she feels secure in knowing she has "gold" or the potential for "gold", then she feels romantic. That's why I think she got another man so quickly. . .she saw a guy who could provide and then got "all wet" for him. That's just the way she's wired. It's the way a lot of women are wired (not all but a lot).

Whereas I saw a person who's hand I would hold on her death bed, she saw a business deal gone bad. It wasn't really some romantic union. I am now at a confessed advantage though as she doens't understand "Klingon", nor probably wishes to understand what movitates me.

She could probably get a lot more in divorce if she did, if she learned who I was as a person and at least respected it.

Sorry I rambled but that's why I don't give out hope for us reconciling. I will just attend to the business of child-rearing with her for the 16-20 years. i will probably be a child-support check and a divorced father to her chidren.

R.I.P "Mr Mom."



> I guess I'm wondering because I am wondering if he will ever forgive me and try things out again. I hope that he doesn't come yet with the divorce papers because that will really kill me. I really need to work on myself and heal because the pain is just too much. I feel guilty for the way I treated him and now I don't know if he will ever forgive me.


You can only apologize and ask for forgiveness. Once you have done that, you have done your part in "God's" eyes (the universe, whatever you believe).

And you have honor for doing so.



> How do you cope?


Oh, I cope by doing typical male-mid-life crisis things - chasing some tail, losing some weight, starting a new side business venture. Went on a fling to Florida for 3 days. Just havent' gotten the sports car, nor probably will but I may surf this summer.

The surfboard is my "Klingon" bike.

(LOL - I am really not a nerd - well, deep down I am, LOL)


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

I had to stop for a bit to be able to digest everything you wrote. I still don't know what to say except that I am scared that he may never be able to forgive me. I took me 4 years to fully forgive him for cheating on me. I always knew that I needed to forgive him and heal because it was tearing us apart each time I had a meltdown over this. We roughly had these talks when I wanted to leave him about once a year. In between I was a jealous controlling person. Then after that I would say mean things but I stopped that when he told me that I was really hurting him. That is when things started to change with me. I then decided that I needed help, but I never attempted to get it because I didn't know how, where, or how I was going to pay for it, and I guess I also thought that perhaps we could fix things, boy was I wrong.

I don't know if you would call this a fight because we never really yelled at each other, we just talked. I felt depressed and all these bad feelings came over me and that's when I would tell him that I didn't know if I could ever forgive him for cheating on me. That I was sorry but I didn't know If I wanted to be married to him. I didn't want to keep hurting him and myself being together in this situation. I told him that it was me who couldn't get over this. and he would cry and begged me to stay, and I never could leave because I loved him and I wanted to fix things. I could never leave him.

The way I acted was like a jealous freak. I didn't want him to hang out with friends, unless I knew them. If he had any female friends that would worry me because I would think, what if he likes her. I basically didn't like the fact that he would have a life without me, I wanted to be present at all times and I was scared when he was out and I wasn't around. He did go out sometimes but I gave him trouble for it, and told him that he had to be home by a certain hour as if he was my son. I remember this one particular time when we went to his work to pay a bill and the cashier his co-worker said hello and talked to my husband a little bit, well after we left I asked him, "have you F***** her yet?" The moment I said that I thought to myself, what a monster I am! How can he put up with me, I am horrible. He never forgot that because he still brings it up. I was just afraid of getting my heartbroken again that I guess I was trying to get him first before he got me. How sick is that?

Then one night he threaten to walk out on me if I didn't change and I tried and I think I did. That's when I notice that things were also changing with us. He wasn't affectionate anymore, and I had to beg him to be intimate. 

I changed him just like he changed me, but when I open my eyes he had closed his and gave up on us. This is why I know how he feels, and I understand his resentment towards me. I was like that. I wanted to leave him so many times, and to him I played with his emotions, and so here we are. He tells me that he will always care for me, and he would like it if we could be friends eventually. 

I have apologized to him and I don't deserve his forgiveness. If I was his friend I would tell him, leave her! You don't need this crap. But I know in my heart that I changed after all of this, because I didn't want to lose him. Like I said before he showed me during this time that I was secure with him. For example I am losing my hair because I was under so much stress and he cried because he said he didn't want me to go thru this. He would kiss my feet, he bought me sweet nothings, he was so good to my family, and I loved him more for being good to them, he bought me a PS3 for my b-day in march. We laughed so many times, he held me in his arms, and a month later he tells me he wants a separation. I don't get it. I feel so lost. 

Sorry for writing so much I hope I didn't bore you. Thanks again for your input.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No, no. . .no trouble at all to read and listen. . .I am sure I went off and bored you but I was trying to employ an analogy for comprehensive purposes on the conclusions I came to during my yearlong separation.

I think you have to want forgiveness for all the right reasons - you did wrong, and yes, maybe (I'm sure) so did he and not have any expectation (reconciliation) in return. 

I think that's the journey to peace. I think you'll drive yourself mad thinking if you get forgiveness that will lead to what you want - reconciliation.

Conversely, I have to give forgiveness without any request for it. . .that is my cross to bear. There are so many times I want to say, "Remember that time you. . ." (just like your husband did with you) and I just have to let it go. Maybe write them all down and throw, take a match to it and throw the burning paper off an ocean pier.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Prelude..you have better chance of being forgiven than someone who never argued,never verbally abused or just 'stonewalled' their spouse...what I wouldn't give for a nice healthy arguement right now


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> No, no. . .no trouble at all to read and listen. . .I am sure I went off and bored you but I was trying to employ an analogy for comprehensive purposes on the conclusions I came to during my yearlong separation.
> 
> I think you have to want forgiveness for all the right reasons - you did wrong, and yes, maybe (I'm sure) so did he and not have any expectation (reconciliation) in return.
> 
> ...




I guess you are right. I was hoping that if he would forgive me, then he would want to work things out again. Which is selfish on my part. I am thinking that I have to apologize to him again for everything that I did wrong without expecting anything from him, I am sincere in the sense that I do want him to forgive me. He says he has but if he resents me then he probably hasn't forgiven me. He needs to heal from this pain that I have cause him. I have been writing every single day on my journal describing this journey that I am going thru. I write letters to him that he will probably will never see. I feel like I am slow in my recovery. 

also you never bore me, I like reading your point of view because sometimes you or others say things that I couldn't really put into words or things that I still cant realize.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

2Daughters said:


> Prelude..you have better chance of being forgiven than someone who never argued,never verbally abused or just 'stonewalled' their spouse...what I wouldn't give for a nice healthy arguement right now



I actually wish I could speak to him about this but when we do, he cries because he has been hurt so much by me sadly. It wasn't all bad I know, and I wish he didn't focus on all the bad things, like I said before I can count more happier times than I can count bad times. And even tho he said he doesnt love me and says that we wont get back together, in my heart I know we will, I have faith, I just wished he did too. I am very hopeful, or in denial.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Of course he sees only the negatives 'right now' but 1 month 2 or 3 from now if you don't 'stalk' him he'll slowly forget those 'bad' times...it's making sure that until then you don't put them back in his head...and if after say 6 mos (seems like forever) he's still harboring those feelings then either you have put them back in through actions or he needs help getting past them...You'll be alright..we all will..it's the rest of the world that's all screwed up.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

I know that people say that we should give them space. Does this mean, not talking to them at all, or just not talking about these specific problems? Because like you said, I want him to heal but if we keep talking about it then obviously he wont have time to forget.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

I think it is different for everyone in my situation not talking is not an option we have kids. I think giving someone space is determined. by the person who is wanting the space it can mean different things to different people. 

I will say take this time to work on yourself. Get strong and confident he WILL notice


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

If you look up a couple of posts and find my long post it will tell you the kind of person I was.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

Even with kids there's no reason to 'talk' except only about the kids...I can keep it to...'are you picking them up or me'..like that then ..'bye' or just drive off.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Oh I agree there hasn't been really any other chit chat between us other then the kids on my side of it. Right now emotions are just too high to just chat.


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## 2Daughters (May 13, 2010)

I hear ya 'finally'...for me I get all flustered and try to be cool and calm when I have to go over there to get my girls but she can see through that like I was a piece of glass...I see how good she looks and how confident she seems and I feel like the high school kid going out on his 1st date and that is a very unsettling feeling to me...I can't wait to get over that.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

That is what I am dealing with right now but I am pretty sure it is turned around for me. I am almost positive that is the feeling H is having. Since he left I have not let him see me a 'mess' I have been more put together then I have in a very long time. I make sure I look and smell great LOL It isn't so much for him but for myself and I will say it does make a difference. Like your W I can see right though him...

I feel bad because I don't see him and get those feelings because he has been so damn ****ing mean/manipulative! I do have a very strong sexual feelings towards him because we have always been very connected that way but there is no way I am going there with him at least right now.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

we didn't have any kids.....I kinda regret it now =(


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Prelude, you do not "deserve" to be miserably unhappy. It may be the consequence of your behavior, but he made choices, too, and NONE of us "deserves" misery. All we can do is learn from our mistakes and move on. 

You both made mistakes--he, in cheating, and you, in not getting help after you found out about it. Your reaction--not trusting him--is normal and natural and the natural consequence of his cheating. He may have had unrealistic expectations for your "recovery" from his affair. He needed to be completely open and accountable to you until you felt more trusting, and then maybe slowly you would have been able to give him more freedom. On the other hand, you made mistakes in accusing him in ugly ways, instead of just saying, "Wow. I feel so threatened b/c I think you find that woman attractive," or whatever. Had you said things like that, he would have understood your need for reassurance, although truthfully only time could possibly heal your wounds. Recovering from an affair is tough and takes a lot of time and commitment by both partners, and really good communication. 

As others have said, you need to let go of him and focus on yourself right now--there is absolutely nothing you can do to "make" him feel one way or another right now-there never is. All you can do is develop yourself into the best person you can be. Maybe he'll find that attractive when you reconnect at some point; no one knows. If you live in a constant state of swirling emotions--fear, sadness, whatever--about the future, you'll miss this opportunity to become your own best friend. That, more than anything, will serve you in your future. Good luck.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> we didn't have any kids.....I kinda regret it now =(


No you don't. Trust me. . .you don't want kids to add to the formula of divorce and separation.


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## finallyseewhy (May 1, 2010)

Yhea, children are the true victims in separation/divorce.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

Which was also why I waited and waited to have kids because I am a product of divorce parents and I know how it feels like. To see your parents argue, the he said she said drama. 20 years later and nothing has really changed between them.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> Prelude, you do not "deserve" to be miserably unhappy. It may be the consequence of your behavior, but he made choices, too, and NONE of us "deserves" misery. All we can do is learn from our mistakes and move on.
> 
> You both made mistakes--he, in cheating, and you, in not getting help after you found out about it. Your reaction--not trusting him--is normal and natural and the natural consequence of his cheating. He may have had unrealistic expectations for your "recovery" from his affair. He needed to be completely open and accountable to you until you felt more trusting, and then maybe slowly you would have been able to give him more freedom. On the other hand, you made mistakes in accusing him in ugly ways, instead of just saying, "Wow. I feel so threatened b/c I think you find that woman attractive," or whatever. Had you said things like that, he would have understood your need for reassurance, although truthfully only time could possibly heal your wounds. Recovering from an affair is tough and takes a lot of time and commitment by both partners, and really good communication.
> 
> As others have said, you need to let go of him and focus on yourself right now--there is absolutely nothing you can do to "make" him feel one way or another right now-there never is. All you can do is develop yourself into the best person you can be. Maybe he'll find that attractive when you reconnect at some point; no one knows. If you live in a constant state of swirling emotions--fear, sadness, whatever--about the future, you'll miss this opportunity to become your own best friend. That, more than anything, will serve you in your future. Good luck.



You are right I never got completely over the fact that he cheated on me and I didn't handle things well. I should have approach them differently instead of being so nasty. Whenever I would bring the issue up at the beginning when all I just wanted to talk and know more information he didn't want to, it bothered him so I eventually stopped asking him and the resentment grew more. 

I am having trouble accepting that is was not all my fault but I am trying to overcome this because the pain and guilt is just to much. I mean he doesn't deny it that it's all my fault and so it makes me believe that it was. I really need to help myself because this is really tormenting and I can't function. Thanks for your advice I appreciate it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Exactly how did he cheat on you before your marriage?

The reason I ask is I know this is kind of a "gray area." Like were you engaged? Just dating and you thought it was something more?

I am not sure how far that word "cheats" extends when it comes to fidelty.

Yes, the ring goes on and the marriage is consummated and he sleeps with another. . .it's cheating. I would say it's even cheating if you are engaged. I am not sure if you were just dating and so forth and he slept with another woman.

I mean. . .no matter. . .he has apologized many times. . .I am sure there was some kind of committment and understanding. . . but what was it that you seem to be unable to lay it to rest? 

What's really bugging you about this past indiscretion, before the marriage existed, that you felt so strongly to jeapordize your relationship?

Was it an impulsive thing he did? Was it a bonafide affair? Was it the lieing and deception?

There's kind of a funny difference between men and women. Beleive it or not, men are more likely to forgive infidelty whereas women are more likely to end the marriage (a trend maybe?). The idea behind it is men can kind of understand if there is a moment of weakness and you do something impulsive.

Now, if there is an "affair" with emotions and love. .. I think men have a harder time forgiving that cheating becuase they just can't identify with it.

Men usually love their wife and family and the idea of just "changing it" is very foreign. But sex is often just sex for a male and a needed release.

So anyway, what is bugging you so much about this premarital indiscretion that it morphed you into the Wicked Witch of the West, my pretty?


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## stbxhmaybe (Apr 29, 2010)

I agree, that's the reason why people say that a man cheats due to physical needs. 

Women cheat due to emotional needs, and it is more likely that a woman will develop feelings for her other man, than for a man to fall in love with the other woman if it's a one time thing. At the end, he was just trying to release his needs.

Very interesting piece of information that I found in one of those self-help books.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Hi Prelude,
I can see you're going through a tough time. Do you think it fair to say that you repeatedly punished your husband over a few years for the same "crime"? And do you not see this as some form of persecution? And did your husband try to "rescue" you and the relationship by suggesting counselling, books etc? If all that is true then the same thing happened in my marriage, it wasn't over an affair.

There is nothing my wife can do to get me back basically because her persecution finally killed off my love for her and I had a lot of love, it lasted decades and some pretty serious abuse. But. I would think more of my wife than I do now, which is not a lot, if she were to write a letter that in some way recognises the ill treatment she dished out to me and yes I would like an apology for what she at times put me through. I know such a letter would help my healing process, speed it up a bit. But I'm not waiting for it and I don't believe it will come.

You could write such a letter to your husband. I don't think it will work if you say "I did this because you did that". He probably just needs to know that you have had a light bulb moment and that you are sorry for the pain you caused him and for persecuting him. I wouldn't do it with the expectation of getting anything back, but I think you will, at the very least a thank you note. Then give it time, plan your own life around things that make you happy and who knows what will happen.

I hope this helps Bob


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

To:Scannerguard

Sorry it's long!

He was my high school sweetheart. He was my first everything, and I was his first as well. Right after HS he joined the military and I went to college. I waited for him all thru boot camp, training school and everything else. We wrote to each other and he called me on a daily basis. During college I was living with my aunt bc my dad kicked me out of his house for having sex with my bf and also bc he didn't approve of my bf being of a diff religion than we were. He said that if I ever married him it wouldn't work out and we would end up in divorce. Father told me I was a disgrace and if I ever saw him walking down the street to pretend I didn't know him. 

Well here I was clinging on to the only person I ever loved. So while he still called me he also called another girl (also from our HS) and talked to her for hours and would tell me that he didn't have enough time to talk to me on the phone. When he came to visit he would see me and her at the same time, one occasion she came along to go out and eat with us. This bothered me but I had no idea what was going on. 

He broke up with me because he said that the distance and that he wanted time for him blah blah blah, but still kept calling me back and eventually we got back together. 

After a while he told me the truth, that is when I ended things with him. My friends called me and told me in detail how he was cheating on me. After that I cut contact with him. When he was being deployed to japan he called me and said he wanted to see me and I agreed bc I thought I was over him. When I saw him again my feeling towards him came back and I told him that I wanted to try things with him and he said he just wanted to be friends. After this, he told me he wanted to try with me again, but when it came time to commit he changed his mind telling me that there was someone else he wanted to be with but couldn't be with bc that person was with someone else. 

While he was in japan he called me again and he persuaded me to get back together. He was there for a whole year. I missed him so much that I forgot he ever cheated on me. That was also when he suggested we get married. And a week after he came back we did. We were so happy. Then he left to his duty station and when I was going thru our things to move to where he was I found pictures of the girls he was talking to. That was when it all changed for me. I started to question myself if I was his second choice, that perhaps he couldnt do better so he chose me. 

When I moved in with him I started to talk to him about it but it was also difficult for him and he refused. And so the feeling piled up and the anger came out. I wanted to leave because I couldn't trust him. I was afraid that he might try to get in touch with them again. I was afraid he might do the samething again. So I was very hesitant to let him go out with his friends. It also got worse when I caught him watching porn because it made me feel insecure and after I told him to no hurt me in that way, he did. But that is not the reason why I wanted to leave. I wanted to leave because I didn't trust him.

I started to say mean things about 3 years into our marriage. I would say things like, why are you lazy?, why are you slow, no profanity , the worst thing I remember saying is don't reproduce, but I guess I made him feel like he was't good enough. 

So I understand his resentment towards me. I have apologized to him many times. But he says it's too late.


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## PreludeCkN (Jan 21, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Hi Prelude,
> I can see you're going through a tough time. Do you think it fair to say that you repeatedly punished your husband over a few years for the same "crime"? And do you not see this as some form of persecution? And did your husband try to "rescue" you and the relationship by suggesting counselling, books etc? If all that is true then the same thing happened in my marriage, it wasn't over an affair.
> 
> There is nothing my wife can do to get me back basically because her persecution finally killed off my love for her and I had a lot of love, it lasted decades and some pretty serious abuse. But. I would think more of my wife than I do now, which is not a lot, if she were to write a letter that in some way recognises the ill treatment she dished out to me and yes I would like an apology for what she at times put me through. I know such a letter would help my healing process, speed it up a bit. But I'm not waiting for it and I don't believe it will come.
> ...


I did punish him for the same crime for years as much as I didn't want to I didn't know how to stop, as stupid as that sounds I didn't know how to stop. He suggested counseling in the first year of our marriage and like a fool I refused thinking I could fix it on my own. That was the only time he suggested counseling. When I told him why didn't he try harder or insisted he said because I was going to keep denying him and since I didn't go, neither did he and that was that. 

I am also afraid that I wont get another chance from him, because he said I broke him, he tried to make me happy and yes I can accept that he did and I recognize each and every time he did. But that feeling I could not get rid of came up, like I said it happen at least once a year I was in my depressing mood again. 

Our very last fight that we had over this he made me realize once and for all that if I didn't change it was me who was going to lose him. That scared me and it made change because I didn't want to lose him. But I it was too late because he started to develop resentment for everything that I put him thru. I apologized profusely and sincerely and I really wish he could forgive me. So as of right now I have no chance


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