# The "Trickle"



## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

New to posting here, but have been reading all your stories for 3 months. 
Learned of my H's EA thru sexting back in June, and went through the typical 3 months of HELLISH steps to get to acceptance. (Crying, yelling, sleeplessness, unable to eat, vomiting, etc) He is remorseful and loving, and we are in R. Things getting better... Last week was the first time I had five straight days with no tears. 
However, I did put things together, and now I do - as of LAST NIGHT - have some confirmation that they spent a night together in May. He lied all summer because of how badly I reacted to the EA, he thought the PA would likely kill me. 
Now, thanks to the trickle down, I am back to square one. I don't want to leave him, I love him, and I know he loves me (married for 18 years). But I cannot go through the steps that I just did this summer again. I got to where I accepted what had happened with the sexting, and had he come forth earlier with the PA, I would've been better off knowing right then and there - dealt with the whole thing. Now I have to do it again, and I just don't think I have the strength to feel these emotions anymore. 
I guess I'm not asking a question here, I think I'm back in the darkness, angry, sad and confused and have no one to talk to about it so writing it might help? ugh. 
So sorry to see SO MANY people on these forums. What a sad place to be.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Don't worry about us. I'm glad I came to a site like this when my fiance cheated on me and didn't give a crap. If I didn't get the advice of several posters I definitely would have married her and been miserable. Instead I have a 1 1/2 yr old son with a wonderful girlfriend so don't worry about us being here. A lot of us are here to help others like we were helped ourselves 

Getting the rest of the river of lies after being trickle truthed is D day all over again. And if you get too anxious and stressed over the upcoming tribulations you may develop PTSD which isn't rare with infidelity

Maybe you need some space him from to get yourself and your emotions together.

I think maybe you should ask him to move out.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Sorry he lied. Don't forget, both have to get tested for STDs. It's humiliating but it needs to be done. Hopely the shame will help him to sober up.

Tell him to stop lying, to write down the story once for all. Give him the Joseph Letter or better a version of your own.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. Kasler, I'm glad you are in a good place!  
I don't know if I want the whole story. I feel like I know what I needed to know and more details will just make it worse. 
And I don't know if I can picture my life without him. We've been together since I was 20 years old... for 23 years - married for 18. Thats a lifetime. 
I'm in that place again where I can't think straight. 
Only, I'm not crying right now. No drama, nothing. I'm kinda numb. And actually, that is kind of scary in itself.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

You don't deserve to be treated with this type of disrespect. He did not tell you because of the shame he experienced (not an excuse), I don't buy the crap of "he did not think you could handle it" garbage. 

I am not being hard on you but on him... I know because I was the WS... At this point if he is going to be this way, let him know that he cannot be trusted in anything. He has to be willing to be completely open and transparent. I realize that this may not help you having to go through this grief all over again, but damn it he has to be the one groveling for your love... do not be a doormat. 

1. You demand he provide you will all text he has received throughout the day... contact your cell phone provider and find out if is possible to retrieve deleted text. Let him know that these are the avenues that you are willing to take.

2. He needs to be willing to allow you to read all his email that is not completely work related.

3. You have read the drill obviously... about passwords to all social website, etc... 

Now is not the time to get weepy, get mad and demand... I know you probably fear the risk he may walk, but without this form of transparency what solid foundation do you have to hold onto in your marriage.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

TT is horrible and I suspect it will get worse as your story goes. You can't predict how you will feel later today or next week or even next month. R is hard but so is D. I am still getting TT after my D-day 29 Nov. 2011. So get ready for a long road. I do not know why our WS's play hard with us when we can typically accept the truth and work through it. It is the continueing lies that follow discovery that is the hardest thing to work through after the betrayal. In a perfect world there would be no betrayal but why the hell so many WS's who want to work on the marriage do not come clean in every aspect is beyond me. If my wife would just come completely clean I could heal. I keep telling her that she can't say anything worse that would drive me away but if she continues not to share things and come completely clean then that may eventually drive me away.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> TT is horrible and I suspect it will get worse as your story goes. You can't predict how you will feel later today or next week or even next month. R is hard but so is D. I am still getting TT after my D-day 29 Nov. 2011. So get ready for a long road. I do not know why our WS's play hard with us when we can typically accept the truth and work through it. It is the continueing lies that follow discovery that is the hardest thing to work through after the betrayal. In a perfect world there would be no betrayal but why the hell so many WS's who want to work on the marriage do not come clean in every aspect is beyond me. If my wife would just come completely clean I could heal. I keep telling her that she can't say anything worse that would drive me away but if she continues not to share things and come completely clean then that may eventually drive me away.


I whole heatedly agree. However some of us who lost our way, and I say that with a great deal of shame and sorrow for what I put my wife through, do come completely clean. I can say the shame I felt and outrage my wife had (and rightfully so) was certainly equivalent to a level 5 hurricane. 

For anyone lurking... know that if you come completely clean with EVERYTHING, the storm maybe fierce, but if you are able to rebuild and recover (which is the WS primary responsibility) it can be surprisingly good. Maybe not the same, but it can be good... 

Just so you are aware, I had and EA, I don't like that term... I know so many like to make that distinction... I don't. EA or PA, makes no difference - cheating is cheating. The cheater is giving away something to someone who does not deserve it from someone who does.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Thorburn - Since November? Ugh. I'm so sorry. Since this is sort of my second Dday in 3 months, I'm not sure I want to ask for any more truths. I suspect this will change though. 
You're right. It's like a bandaid. Just get it done and rip it off all at once. Why do they withold information when they already killed you once with the bit that they did share. 
I hope your situation works out. You're coming up on 10 months and it's still happening... I can't even fathom that. 
I don't know if I can do it. But like you said, D is hard too, and I don't know if I can do that either.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

So Sad Lady said:


> Thorburn - Since November? Ugh. I'm so sorry. Since this is sort of my second Dday in 3 months, I'm not sure I want to ask for any more truths. I suspect this will change though.
> You're right. It's like a bandaid. Just get it done and rip it off all at once. Why do they withold information when they already killed you once with the bit that they did share.
> I hope your situation works out. You're coming up on 10 months and it's still happening... I can't even fathom that.
> I don't know if I can do it. But like you said, D is hard too, and I don't know if I can do that either.


For me I live apart from my wife during the week and have since last October and that has made R even more difficult for many reasons. It led to my drunken trips home on Fridays because my mind would go in every direction when i could not contact her. Hell, she could be taking a bath and if I could not reach her I would think she is out again. Had I been home it would have been easier. It does look like we finally found a house that will work out for us. Had I been home I would have not gotten drunk and my anger would have been manage better but like my oldest BIL kept telling me being apart just makes your mind wonder where they are and what they are doing and it is not good. 

i did get about 92% of the truth from her and I don't know why she continues to hold things back. And like I told her again the other night after she told me she just wants to move on, I said no we won't. I said I will when you answer my questions and until you do so we will not rug sweep it and not move on.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok. When I said I got "some confirmation" - I didn't really get him to admit it. I got him to just not deny it. But when you’re married for so long, you do the “unspoken” things, where you both know it, but don’t need to say it. Then today he texted me and asked if I'm going to stew all day because he doesn't want to come home to another tantrum (I said before, I have had some rough nights in the past few months). 
My response was rather passive/aggressive. I texted: "Since last night, I know what I needed to know. I just don't care anymore. I have no more tears to give you and no more energy to spend on anger. No worries, I'm calm. I'm going shopping, do you need anything?" 
He responded to pick up coffee and that's it. then a couple of i love you texts, and a couple of voicemails. So, really I don't have FIRM confirmation, but yeah. I do, I know, and he knows I know. There's a lot of signs that I didn't see, and now his responses show it. 
He thinks it's taking me too long to get over this (the confirmed sexting part). It was an ex-coworker of his that he hadn't seen since 2009. He always told me she liked him, and she'd flirt, but he thought she was trashy. He called her because he and I hadn't had sex more than once a month in over a year (I take responsibility for this part; I know how important that is in a marriage, and a man will stray - just didn't think he was capable). He just wanted someone to tell him he was sexy, and wanted. I asked "WHY HER?" He said, "Because she's the only woman that I know that would have no trouble messing around with a married man". But at the same time he said there were no plans to hook up. A month later, he admitted there were plans. And – now in the past few weeks, I had a vague conversation with her, where her only words were, “Poor baby, he had to wait so long for me, he’s wanted it since 2009. It was really HARD on him”. Well, that suggests more than texting right there. Then I remembered an exact date of one night I went out of town, and couldn’t reach him… and that was the date of the first text…at 2am. Leads me to believe he called her for sex, and then they continued sexting for a few weeks. (He did end it with her before I found out – I have that confirmed for sure). And the last straw was a few nights ago I texted her from his phone (really childish I know), saying “wife left me, lets hook up”. He figured it out, grabbed the phone, and texted in front of me – “That was my wife, she grabbed my phone. She thinks we had a long term affair. I love her and I want no one else”. 
Well, I never accused him of a long term affair. I accused him of one night! Hmmmm…..
Her response: I don’t want anything else with you. I told you this was going to happen. I know you love her, go take care of her and LOSE THIS PHONE NUMBER. 
So, no not confirmed. Not denied. I’m sure it will be an ugly weekend! 
Don't know how I'm gonna handle yet. For now, maybe a glass of wine.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> Ok. When I said I got "some confirmation" - I didn't really get him to admit it. I got him to just not deny it. But when you’re married for so long, you do the “unspoken” things, where you both know it, but don’t need to say it. Then today he texted me and asked if I'm going to stew all day because he doesn't want to come home to another tantrum (I said before, I have had some rough nights in the past few months).
> My response was rather passive/aggressive. I texted: "Since last night, I know what I needed to know. I just don't care anymore. I have no more tears to give you and no more energy to spend on anger. No worries, I'm calm. I'm going shopping, do you need anything?"
> He responded to pick up coffee and that's it. then a couple of i love you texts, and a couple of voicemails. So, really I don't have FIRM confirmation, but yeah. I do, I know, and he knows I know. There's a lot of signs that I didn't see, and now his responses show it.
> He thinks it's taking me too long to get over this (the confirmed sexting part). It was an ex-coworker of his that he hadn't seen since 2009. He always told me she liked him, and she'd flirt, but he thought she was trashy. He called her because he and I hadn't had sex more than once a month in over a year (I take responsibility for this part; I know how important that is in a marriage, and a man will stray - just didn't think he was capable). He just wanted someone to tell him he was sexy, and wanted. I asked "WHY HER?" He said, "Because she's the only woman that I know that would have no trouble messing around with a married man". But at the same time he said there were no plans to hook up. A month later, he admitted there were plans. And – now in the past few weeks, I had a vague conversation with her, where her only words were, “Poor baby, he had to wait so long for me, he’s wanted it since 2009. It was really HARD on him”. Well, that suggests more than texting right there. Then I remembered an exact date of one night I went out of town, and couldn’t reach him… and that was the date of the first text…at 2am. Leads me to believe he called her for sex, and then they continued sexting for a few weeks. (He did end it with her before I found out – I have that confirmed for sure). And the last straw was a few nights ago I texted her from his phone (really childish I know), saying “wife left me, lets hook up”. He figured it out, grabbed the phone, and texted in front of me – “That was my wife, she grabbed my phone. She thinks we had a long term affair. I love her and I want no one else”.
> ...


Wow where to start:

1. Just because sex was infrequent (I know you have heard and read this on TAM), it NEVER gives justification for cheating. Communication, which by what I read above is absent, is how to resolve *this* issue. 

2. Not a big advocate for divorce unless it for protection against an abuser or substance addict (I know others have their opinion). *Such as that may be*, you may want to have some D papers drafted up. We will see how much he loves you... he certainly does not show it. Put down the glass of wine and call an attorney. The initial cost can be reasonable and you would be surprised how quickly their office can have papers drafted. 

In my case, it was enough that I was both deeply (and I mean deeply) ashamed and my wife took me to the "mat" that convinced me how much I love my wife, in more than words. We did have the help of mutual friends which primarily sided with my wife (for very good reason). We certainly do not have terse and what can be perceived as acerbic communication with each other. He can say all he wants to brush this part of his life aside, however if you and he don't get a handle on it... it WILL happen again, another A.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> Ok. When I said I got "some confirmation" - I didn't really get him to admit it. I got him to just not deny it. But when you’re married for so long, you do the “unspoken” things, where you both know it, but don’t need to say it. Then today he texted me and asked if I'm going to stew all day because he doesn't want to come home to another tantrum (I said before, I have had some rough nights in the past few months).
> My response was rather passive/aggressive. I texted: "Since last night, I know what I needed to know. I just don't care anymore. I have no more tears to give you and no more energy to spend on anger. No worries, I'm calm. I'm going shopping, do you need anything?"
> He responded to pick up coffee and that's it. then a couple of i love you texts, and a couple of voicemails. So, really I don't have FIRM confirmation, but yeah. I do, I know, and he knows I know. There's a lot of signs that I didn't see, and now his responses show it.
> He thinks it's taking me too long to get over this (the confirmed sexting part). It was an ex-coworker of his that he hadn't seen since 2009. He always told me she liked him, and she'd flirt, but he thought she was trashy. He called her because he and I hadn't had sex more than once a month in over a year (I take responsibility for this part; I know how important that is in a marriage, and a man will stray - just didn't think he was capable). He just wanted someone to tell him he was sexy, and wanted. I asked "WHY HER?" He said, "Because she's the only woman that I know that would have no trouble messing around with a married man". But at the same time he said there were no plans to hook up. A month later, he admitted there were plans. And – now in the past few weeks, I had a vague conversation with her, where her only words were, “Poor baby, he had to wait so long for me, he’s wanted it since 2009. It was really HARD on him”. Well, that suggests more than texting right there. Then I remembered an exact date of one night I went out of town, and couldn’t reach him… and that was the date of the first text…at 2am. Leads me to believe he called her for sex, and then they continued sexting for a few weeks. (He did end it with her before I found out – I have that confirmed for sure). And the last straw was a few nights ago I texted her from his phone (really childish I know), saying “wife left me, lets hook up”. He figured it out, grabbed the phone, and texted in front of me – “That was my wife, she grabbed my phone. She thinks we had a long term affair. I love her and I want no one else”.
> ...


There is a lot more there than you are thinking. A LOT.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks Drerio and Chris. I am listening. Just not ready to do anything quite yet. I think I'm going insane. I know I need to get a grip, and that is one reason I joined this forum today. I haven't talked to ANYONE about this in all 3 months. 
Chris...That's what I'm afraid of. 
I just read your story...This part is kinda how I'm feeling:
"I feel like I can’t move on until I know what really happened but I am becoming frozen; terrified of thinking in case I discover anything further and too scared to ask her anything as she just continues to lie".

I will say, he has been remorseful - well he was for a couple months - he talked to me, he let me have my "moments" (ok, hours and hours). He also said that with this whole thing, it made him realize how much he loves me; how wrong it was, how committed he was going to be. We started "dating" again, went on a couple of trips. He is still being very good to me, he just thinks I need to drop it and forget it, because he said he has. 
And I said before, he broke it off with her 2 days before I discovered it (sexting part). Its just that in the past month, he is just sick of hearing about it and talking about it and thinks I should just get past it. 
And now, I haven't even got the strength to face the latest revelation. And what you said Chris, scares the living daylights out of me. How dumb am I to believe anything, right? I feel so humiliated.... 
I thought I was over the first little bump, but now I'm pushed down the hill again. 
I am so sick of feeling like this.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I wonder, are women more hurt by the emotional aspect of the affair or the physical? Because there seems to be a trend where men are mainly tormented by the PA where as for women it's the EA


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

To me it's all the same. Trading texts of body parts and telling eachother what they want to do to eachother is the same thing to me as actually doing it - maybe worse because he did it when I was sitting in the next room. I know he has no respect for this woman, it was definitely all about sex. She's 50 y/o (I'm 43, hubby 45), not very attractive, but was always throwing herself at him. He actually said to me that the "who it was" part made him feel ill to think about, because she's a nothing to him. He said he played her like a salesman (he never blamed it on her; he instigated it, and admitted it to me). 
So now, I'm dealing with the fact of the lie over the summer, after he promised he was telling the truth. 
To me the sexting was physical. And emotional - giving him the "wanted feeling". So finding out the physical feels the same way as it did when I found out the sexting. It's just that now I have to feel it all over again.
So, either way, EA or PA - its all the same to me, and it's destroyed me.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Complexity said:


> I wonder, are women more hurt by the emotional aspect of the affair or the physical? Because there seems to be a trend where men are mainly tormented by the PA where as for women it's the EA


I am extremely hurt from my H's EA's... I don't know about the PA... ( only gut feeling, but his denial)... but knowing he talked about us, life, everything with other women while treating me like crap... I'm not sure if finding out it was physical would hurt any worse.. knowing his mind and heart was with them more than me... 

A body part is just that,, but an emotional connection.. that's hard to accept and just "get over".


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> He lied all summer because of how badly I reacted to the EA, he thought the PA would likely kill me.


"it insults my intelligence and it makes me very angry"


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

What I meant to say is TT and lying about the affair is awful, and don't for a moment be charitable enough to accept the excuse that the lying was to protect you. "I may have done these awful and selfish things, but let's not dwell on that as my senses of chivarly and common decency dictate that I protect you from them."


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Harken Banks said:


> What I meant to say is TT and lying about the affair is awful, and don't for a moment be charitable enough to accept the excuse that the lying was to protect you. "I may have done these awful and selfish things, but let's not dwell on that as my senses of chivarly and common decency dictate that I protect you from them."



HB, believe it or not (obviously that is completely up to you,) sometimes that is exactly why wayward spouses TT. In the midst of an affair, the WS is not thinking about the ramifications of having to "explain" what they're doing to their BS. They're just not. But, when the time comes and they have to stare into the eyes of the one whose heart they have broken it becomes practically unbearable to tell them something, knowing that it will only shatter them more. I don't know what hurts more, knowing how much your BS is hurting.... or knowing that you are the one who caused that hurt.

I can only say that I had a list of things that I considered to be "deal breakers." I think there were 5 things on it. They were things that I just "knew" if B1 knew that we couldn't recover from them and that our marriage would be over. This was after I realized that I didn't want our marriage to be over. After a few therapy sessions individually and then together, I finally started telling him about them one by one and gauging his reaction... because if just one of those "deal breakers" had actually broken the deal and he was going to leave me, then I would have had no need to tell him the others and shatter him further. Without going into all of them I will share just two. The first was that I had met his children and that the OM and I had had dinner with them. The second was that I had met his parents and even helped him take them to the doctor for their physicals. They're both in their 80's and in poor health. His family loved me (of course they didn't know that I was married and still living with my husband.) For me, the deal breakers were the things that revolved around my emotional connection to the OM and his family.... because I knew that the emotional connection far outweighed the physical connection in my heart. It posed the greatest risk to my marriage from my point of view. When I told B1 these things he just nodded and said, "Well of course you did that, and of course they loved you, that's just who you are. That doesn't even surprise me." He wasn't "bothered" by those things. As a man, he is haunted with the sexual aspects of the A. I told him from the start, if you know the affair included "Z," meaning intercourse, then assume that it included "A" through "Y" because that is the nature of an affair. But, to this day, if we are talking and he asks a specific question and I answer it and he realizes that he just learned something that he had never realized before, then his hurt starts all over again.... a brand new, ugly mind movie starts. It wasn't that I had intentionally TT'd anything.... I just thought that it was covered under "A" through "Y" and unless he asks a specific question then why would I heap on graphic details that will only serve to hurt him. But, he will tell you that if he asks me.... I do tell him the absolute truth... even if it kills me to hurt him that way.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

"He lied all summer because of how badly I reacted to the EA, he thought the PA would likely kill me."

Thinking about this statement more tonight. I think I meant, "He lied to me all summer because he thought the PA would likely get him divorced".


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> Why do they withold information when they already killed you once with the bit that they did share.


I think you may have just answered your own question. If a WS is truly remorseful, as you say he seems to be, it does hurt them to tell you things knowing that it hurts you so much. But, at some point, a WS has to understand that if they want to reconcile then they are going to have to be completely honest and answer any and all questions with as much or as little detail as their BS needs and for as long as they need them to.



So Sad Lady said:


> He called her because he and I hadn't had sex more than once a month in over a year (I take responsibility for this part; I know how important that is in a marriage, and a man will stray - just didn't think he was capable). He just wanted someone to tell him he was sexy, and wanted.


Are you are leaning towards reconciliation, at all? If you are then you're going to have to address this. Did you know that he was unhappy with the frequency of your lovemaking? Had he talked to you about it and expressed his need for more intimacy? Or did you just assume that because he is a man that he wanted more? Did the two of you communicate your needs to one another or was there a lack of communication? You say that you take responsibility for that part.... Can you explain what that means? Does that mean that you take responsibility, now, that you believe that he has had a PA as well as as EA, or that you knew all along and were unresponsive and indifferent to his needs because you "just didn't think he was capable" of straying? I hope you understand that I'm not trying to offend you with these questions. Believe me when I say that on TAM I have been subjected to my share of them. Some of them I answered on TAM and some were discussed privately with my husband, my BS, who is known here as B1 (Betrayed1.) I was the WS in our relationship and we are 2 1/2 months into our reconciliation after my 15 month EA/PA. During reconciliation there are going to be extremely difficult questions to answer on both sides.... for a very long time. How long? I don't know.... for the foreseeable future and then some, I assume.



Complexity said:


> I wonder, are women more hurt by the emotional aspect of the affair or the physical? Because there seems to be a trend where men are mainly tormented by the PA where as for women it's the EA


Well, you know I was the WS not the BS, but I can tell you that I was much more fearful about telling B1 about the emotional aspects of my affair. It took me about 2 1/2 weeks from D-Day to admit that the affair was physical. After I confessed that, the only remaining TT involved only the emotional aspects of the affair. I truly believed that they were a greater threat to the survivability of our marriage. Silly me, B1 barely blinked an eye to the things that I dreaded telling him the most. He is tormented with the PA. I have told him that I could have forgiven him if he had had a PA during the time that our marriage had completely broken down.... but if he had met her parents and children and gone grocery shopping with her then I probably would have died. He took that to heart.... every once in a while when he is on his way home from work and he knows that I'm at the grocery, he comes in and surprises me. God, I love that man!  Help me shop, load the groceries in my trunk, follow me home, and help me put them away..... oh, Baby, now that's romance.... yes, I'm serious! 



So Sad Lady said:


> "He lied all summer because of how badly I reacted to the EA, he thought the PA would likely kill me."
> 
> Thinking about this statement more tonight. I think I meant, "He lied to me all summer because he thought the PA would likely get him divorced".


Re-read what you just said...... It sounds to me like he didn't want to be divorced. Now, was he right to have an affair? NO, NO, NO..... Was he right to lie to you and TT? NO!!! But, if he was afraid of getting divorced you have to ask yourself "why?" If it is because he loves you and wants to stay married to you and you love him and want to stay married to him then the two of you have to get serious about communication. He HAS to be honest and you have to acknowledge his needs and desires..... just as he does yours. 

I wish you the very best and I am so sorry that you're hurting. 

Take Care,
EI


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> Thanks Drerio and Chris. I am listening. Just not ready to do anything quite yet. I think I'm going insane. I know I need to get a grip, and that is one reason I joined this forum today. I haven't talked to ANYONE about this in all 3 months.
> Chris...That's what I'm afraid of.
> I just read your story...This part is kinda how I'm feeling:
> "I feel like I can’t move on until I know what really happened but I am becoming frozen; terrified of thinking in case I discover anything further and too scared to ask her anything as she just continues to lie".
> ...


Firstly, don't feel humiliated. No matter how remorseful your husband appears to be, he has caused this. His continued lying is causing you continued pain.

He is making a judgement here of weighing his interests against your pain. Right now, his interests - not telling the truth - is winning against your pain - you know he is not telling it.

The only way of changing that is to change the balance.

In my experience - and of course everyone is different - I have to up the ante. This has meant going to the lawyer's office=, threatening divorce, leaving for the night, going out for the night (she is terrified I will go to a lap dancing bar for some reason) etc. etc. I also find that having a sulk works, but I think that works better for men than women.

As it stands we are still in a 2 week impasse about something I have been asking for for a while and it is getting ugly.

My thoughts are with you. Remember this is about *your* happiness whatever the outcome. If you aren't happy the marriage can't work anyway.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm certain that I don't know some details I care about from my wife's affair. Certain she has not admitted some things, and suspect she may have lied about others.

I just work on the assumption that those unconfirmed details are true, and that any deception is from a combination of sparing me pain combined with her embarrassment.

I am comfortable the affair ended. It was many years ago.

If I am wrong and she is still cheating, I will catch her out at some stage, and the marriage will be over. 

I don't like this aspect of how she communicates, but I work on that as a general communication issue, not just in terms of the affair.e


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Empty –
Thank you, I don’t take offense to anything. First off, yes we have been reconciling since June when I learned of the EA. He has been remorseful, embarrassed, shamed, etc. We have done more together as a couple than ever. He’s been more attentive to things I need, and to both of our families as well. It is different now. Even with my meltdowns, he’s been really good to me. Except for the past few weeks where he thinks talking about it won’t help because he said I knew everything so I should be getting on and not looking back. But this piece of confirming the PA is still lingering, and I’m just mustering up the courage to face it and make him talk about it. 
Yes, I knew he was unhappy with the frequency of love making. We talked, but not in depth, not like we talk about it now. He would bring it up, and I would just shut down. I can’t explain why, but I never wanted to. I almost thought there was something physically wrong with me because nothing did anything for me. I felt it became a chore; Funny thing is, looking back to about a month before D-day, I thought to myself, “If you don’t start giving it up, he’s gonna go elsewhere”. But, I really didn’t – in my real head – think he would do it. I thought he would possibly leave me over it, but not stray. The good part about all of this, is that’s changed. Night of D-Day, as I was crying and sobbing, and hating him (yes, hating him), I had no one to turn to, and I needed help so I let him hold me for about an hour, and it was crazy because I didn’t say no that night, and had the best sex we’d had in years. Then to follow, we made love almost every day for 9 weeks straight. I have since read up on this because it confused the heck out of me and what I was doing. They call it hysterical bonding. We have talked a lot about the issue since the “A”, and he said he really wishes we would’ve had that talk before he reached out to the OW.
And I know he does love me. I know he feels guilt and shame. I know he’s lied about the PA because he does think that part will drive me away. I don’t think it would’ve at first if he’d told the whole truth. I told him that. I told him that the sneaking around taking pictures of himself and sending them to another woman is more disturbing to me than if he slept with her. And I still feel that way. But all summer he PROMISED so many times that he didn’t. So now it’s more a matter of TT and the lies. 
Still not sure what to do. Today is another day. Do I try to enjoy it on this labor day weekend with my husband or do I bring all this up again? Part of me just wants to enjoy it and not talk about anything until I truly know if I can continue staying married to a man that lied to me for so many months. Does that outweigh almost 18 years of marriage and 23 years of us being best friends? 
I guess we’ll find out soon. Thank you for taking the time to write, EI. This all does help a lot.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Wazza said:


> I'm certain that I don't know some details I care about from my wife's affair. Certain she has not admitted some things, and suspect she may have lied about others.
> 
> I just work on the assumption that those unconfirmed details are true, and that any deception is from a combination of sparing me pain combined with her embarrassment.
> 
> ...


Wazza, this works for you? To just assume the worst is true but not address it? I guess I can see that. Maybe that's right; that its better just not to know some details. Hope for the best but always be prepared for the worst. Just a drag that after 18 years this is where my marriage is.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> Wazza, this works for you? To just assume the worst is true but not address it? I guess I can see that. Maybe that's right; that its better just not to know some details. Hope for the best but always be prepared for the worst. Just a drag that after 18 years this is where my marriage is.


I neger said it's not addressed. I said some things cannot be proven or disproven.

I know she was physically and emotionally intimate with another man over months and lied to me. I know she hated me and considered leaving me. I know she betrayed values we both hold as fundamental. I know she is remorseful for all that.

What more do I need to know?


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## B1 (Jun 14, 2012)

Sorry to say....I think, eventually, you are going to have to confirm the PA. I don't think you will be able to move forward until you do. However, if you can just know there was a PA and go from there that's not necessarily wrong, my counselor is big on not giving the details of an A, he's for knowing it and moving forward if that's what you want and that settles you, fine.

If it's not fine...I can tell you that getting the details is a mixed bag, good and bad,ok...some really really bad. It's NOT for everyone, I got the details and some of them I wish now I didn't get. But EI was an open book after a short while, answering all my questions, every detail I asked for she gave and I asked for a lot of details. They killed me, still do, but I know she was upfront and honest with me and I feel I now know it all, no secrets.

His defensiveness, like not wanting to come home because your upset, concerns me some. I will say EI was defensive but it was mostly in the very beginning the first month. After that she was fine, except maybe a few times when I would get real graphic and real upset, she would sort of close off, shut down and seem defensive but she was really just shutting down, going into self preservation mode, I learned this in counseling. I was basically attacking her with harmful questions, not sure this is what you are doing or not?

If you are continually discussing this, daily, hourly etc. he may get wore out a bit. It's understandable, sometimes the WS does need a break, I know not big on TAM, but they can get emotionally drained just like you can. But and a BIG but, you have to get back on it eventually and get your answers, ALL of them.

Your going to be stuck, completely stuck until he comes clean. You need to decide if you can handle the news he has not shared with you. I am afraid we both know what he's done and what he hasn't told you. Can your marriage recover from this, it sure it can! 

IF you know he's sorry, that he loves you and you love him and you WANT to work this out it's possible. But it's work, it's tough, and he's going to need to understand that he has to be open and honest with you ALWAYS. That's the only way your going to heal yourself and your marriage. 

It's going to be an emotional roller coaster right now, sex will be great, hysterical bonding sex is some of the best, but just know it doesn't fix the problem, I am all for it though, but you have to communicate, you have to talk about this, he has to talk about it. He may think sex solves the problem, that you are ok with it because your making love again, make sure he understands he needs to do some serious work here to make this marriage work, he has to be involved, communicate, love, understand and have compassion for you. 

He needs to show remorse for what he did, you need to see it in his eyes and in his body language. He can't call you and say I don't want to come home because you may be in a bad mood. That's not going to cut it, He made this choice, he messed up bad, and he has to make this up.

Are you in counseling? you should be!

I wish the best for you two, good luck..
B1


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

betrayed1 said:


> Sorry to say....I think, eventually, you are going to have to confirm the PA. I don't think you will be able to move forward until you do. However, if you can just know there was a PA and go from there that's not necessarily wrong, my counselor is big on not giving the details of an A, he's for knowing it and moving forward if that's what you want and that settles you, fine.
> 
> If it's not fine...I can tell you that getting the details is a mixed bag, good and bad,ok...some really really bad. It's NOT for everyone, I got the details and some of them I wish now I didn't get. But EI was an open book after a short while, answering all my questions, every detail I asked for she gave and I asked for a lot of details. They killed me, still do, but I know she was upfront and honest with me and I feel I now know it all, no secrets.
> 
> ...


Thank you, B1. Helps to hear from someone who has been thru some of this... Tried to talk about it this weekend; he's denying the PA completely again. He said that when we were talking the other night, and he didn't deny it, it was because he's sick of denying it and he doesn't know what else to do to prove that he didn't meet up with her. And that if he had done it, he'd have told me but he didn't. He did fess up that he was making some sort of plans, and that she was having trouble with it, because she's afraid of me, and that I'd come after her. (I've met her a few times). He plainly said to me, "I was wanting to have an affair"). He has said he thanks God that he wised up before it went to that next level. He has told me everything else that I needed to know, even when it hurt me. But he said he's not going to say he did something that he didn't. And it really bugs him that I don't believe him, but he also sees my point of view and understands why I don't. 
As far as the last three months, I know there isn't communication between them- she's pretty livid with him because he was honest with her when he called her to say the sexting stuff had stop. She asked him why did he call her out of the blue after so many years, and he told her what he said to me. "I knew you'd be willing to play." 
This is not a 25 year old girl. This woman is six years older than me (49ish)..She's not overly attractive (I've met her before). He seriously said that it started when she texted him for a job reference. It was a couple days before I left out of town that night in May. He said he had a few beers and texted her back. He said he played her - he was a salesperson - he asked for a topless pic, and when it came through, he was stunned - and it was fun and exciting - so began the games. 
I have checked cell records and can clearly see when the first text came through, and every single one since. There was only one conversation on the phone. And that was the day he called her and told they had to quit. That night before we were both at our lake home, he and I had an argument and I went to bed crying. He went down to our boat where they traded pictures and did their disgusting little deeds. 
In the morning, when I got up, I decided to go home, and I left. He was to stay the night again that evening at the lake. Around 2pm, he called, saying he was on his way home, he just needed to be with me. Came home and was so nice to me. The next night he made a date night...we went to dinner and he brought me to several jewelers to upgrade my wedding ring. He kept referring to us as Team Mates. Words like "forever" were used again (for the first time in a long time). 
Problem with this, is it was so sweet that it seemed sticky and made me very suspicious, so I pulled the cell records for the past two months. And there it was. Starting May 17 to June 1...over 100 texts and several pix to and from an unknown number. Then a 15 minute phone call on June 2. Again, this was the only phone call. And trust me, I checked. I pulled records from a year back. It was June 4 when I found this, June 3 when he came home a new man....June 2 the only phone call on record.
He's not a Facebook user (hates it), he has a work email and a personal email that he lets me check (always has for Fantasy Football and whatever), and I have the password. He doesn't delete history... And, he and I work in the same place. There's no way either of us could slip out for a few hours without the other knowing. And, he doesn't go out with the guys or anything like that very often. So I can honestly say there's no "holes" with timing or anything like that in those few weeks. I'm sure he's told me everything about the EA part, but the only black hole there is that night I went out of town. And her response to me about "he had to wait for a long time, since 2009". When I read it to him he almost laughed, and told me that was his opening text to start the games..."I've been thinking about you since you left work in 2009"..... 
So, I don't think I'm going to get any further with any of this. I guess I could either assume it happened, and go on, or I could choose to believe him. Or, I could leave him for lying to me (even though I don't have 100% proof)
Counseling, I went twice - didn't do much for me. Did go to the Dr. for a STD check (all is well there). Since I've calmed down a bit - over the last month, we've been back to having some fun together, I can look at him without anger... And the only time it gets bad now is when I press him to tell me about the PA. He swears to me that he would - if it happened, but still maintains that it didn't. 
He also has told me that - at the time - he didn't really think about it as "cheating" BECAUSE there was no physical contact there. He knew it wasn't "right", and that it'd kill him if I were doing the same thing, but didn't put it together with the word "Cheating". And that until I confronted him and in the weeks to come, told him how it all made me feel, he does now realize it was cheating. He said he has no feelings for this woman, never has...but he was "horny", and wanted some fun - he knew she'd jump at the chance. He doesn't consider it an "EA" either, cuz he has no emotions tied to HER, (I've explained that it was an EA because he was getting something emotionally out of the "game"...he kinda sees that now I think). He has also said that since all of this, he is very embarrassed, very ashamed - and not just because of what it did to me - just that he even did such things at all. 
He has done everything right (according to these boards). With the exception of admitting to a PA - he has been remorseful, and honestly - the last few months, he's been a pretty darned good husband.
I'm so confused! (And I know some will just say I'm being dumb in some way). 
By the way - he's 46. He is looking at buying either a classic camaro, corvette or some type of big old convertible cruiser. It all dawned on me this summer. Mid Life Crisis plays here too. Which I have been joking for the past few months - "Better buy something now, my MLC is coming up in two years..I will outdo yours in EVERY way!" (He knows I'm joking). At least I can kinda joke around sometimes... 
Sorry so long winded again....feels good to get my thoughts in writing.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

For what it's worth it *could* be true and I can see how he could have gotten into what he says.

There seems little point in pursuing this further if you want to stay with him as he can simply deny everything and you seem to have reached an impasse.

He has been unfaithful in thought - if not deed - but I have to say: from bitter experience - and from my perspective at least - a PA is far far harder to come to terms with than an EA. I have had to go through both.

One caused anger and hurt and the other has destroyed my life. 

My 2 cents? Believe him, move on and rebuild your marriage.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> For what it's worth it *could* be true and I can see how he could have gotten into what he says.
> 
> There seems little point in pursuing this further if you want to stay with him as he can simply deny everything and you seem to have reached an impasse.
> 
> ...


Chris, Thanks. I'm sorry for what you've gone through. Which one caused anger and hurt..and which one destroyed your life? I read your story (mine probably sounds just trivial to you, now) But, Just curious, because I don't know what I would do if my H said he was in love with someone else. I think that would be the part that would destroy me. Which was the harder for you? (just curious).
I have some catching up to do on your story, it looks like. Where are you at now? 

It looks like you have way more trickle than I can even imagine. I am so sorry. For me, I know that just finding stupid things out - like she has a tattoo - drove me crazy. But you were finding out these major, major things in little doses. And yeah, a 2 year deal... (my head hurts thinking about this...so so so sorry).

Looks like you're about my age, and have been together with your wife the same amount of time I have been with H. Doesn't it just "SUCK" (Could use abetter word, but not in the terms of agreement here at TAM)..that after being with someone for so long, investing most of our lives with them, hitting our 40s, thinking life is going along as it should be - and in ONE SECOND, everything we know in life is shattered. Everything we believed in is gone. Our spouse, the most important person in our life - actually had a "second" life that we didn't even know existed. Right in front of us (or behind our back, same thing). 
Its not fair. I'm truly sorry for what you've been going through. I wish I could offer you some encouraging words, but like I said, I have to catch up with where you are. Which I will do! 
Thank you for responding to my emotional rants here, it is appreciated. 

I don't know which way is up, but I truly appreciate you reading my story and responding.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> Chris, Thanks. I'm sorry for what you've gone through. Which one caused anger and hurt..and which one destroyed your life? I read your story (mine probably sounds just trivial to you, now) But, Just curious, because I don't know what I would do if my H said he was in love with someone else. I think that would be the part that would destroy me. Which was the harder for you? (just curious).
> I have some catching up to do on your story, it looks like. Where are you at now?
> 
> It looks like you have way more trickle than I can even imagine. I am so sorry. For me, I know that just finding stupid things out - like she has a tattoo - drove me crazy. But you were finding out these major, major things in little doses. And yeah, a 2 year deal... (my head hurts thinking about this...so so so sorry).
> ...


I have thought about this a lot as you might expect 

What I do know is that, after being told that my wife had been in love with someone else for 2 and a half years it hurt but I felt that I had more or less already guessed this (in fact it had been for 5 years really). This did of course cause big problems but at that point I had been told that my wife hadn't acted on these feelings.

Now I guess that might have meant to me that she didn't really feel that strongly so it might not have bothered me as much as I thought.

4 weeks after being told of this I ended up going to the other man's house out of frustration as I could tell my wife had not told me some big parts of the story.

I didn't find out about her intense passionate affair for another 6 weeks after that and in that meantime there was pain but I could deal with it.

I found out about the physical side and *that* destroyed my life. 

I think, however, that that is because the physical affair was a manifestation of my wife's "love" for this other man.

The biggest sticking points for me are that she fell for a complete loser - a known liar and philanderer - and threw herself at him.

The problem in my mind isn't so much the physical side, but what that means - that she gave herself unreservedly to another man and did not think about me.

She did more for him physically than she ever did with me and that hurts because it means she held back for 24 years (22 years married). 

She waited around in supermarket car parks for him to text her and this hurts because it is a commitment I know she wouldn't give to me. She had contraceptive injections for him and wouldn't for me - I had the snip because of this. As late as 23rd of March she was asking the family Dr for long term contraceptives that "her husband won't find out about". This, again, is a phyiscal manifestation of her intense emotional need for this "man".

So it is the discovery of the physical affair that has destroyed my life (and that of my children to an extent) but this is because the physical side is an expression of giving, of an emotional commitment she wouldn't give even to her husband and the father of her children.

It kills me just as much thinking back to her putting her lipstick on thinking of him as it does to know she would allow him to have sex with her even though he refused to kiss her. She would insist on performing oral and then allow him to take her from behind without foreplay and she would not ever have allowed me to do that.

This is why I think you have dodged a bullet if your husband did not have a physical affair - it means he couldn't properly express his feelings and prove them to both you and the OM.

Good luck and thanks for your kind comments.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

God Chris that's painful..


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I wonder, are women more hurt by the emotional aspect of the affair or the physical? Because there seems to be a trend where men are mainly tormented by the PA where as for women it's the EA


Complexity:

Some studies show that women are more hurt by the EA and the EA/PA is typically a death knell to the marriage for most women.

Newer studies show that men are also hurt by the emotional aspects but yes for men the PA is more painful. 

For my part, the emotional aspects are what really torment me. But I can't speak for all women. 

My STBEH on Dday said she meant nothing, but he emails, texts and voicemails say otherwise.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I am extremely hurt from my H's EA's... I don't know about the PA... ( only gut feeling, but his denial)... but knowing he talked about us, life, everything with other women while treating me like crap... I'm not sure if finding out it was physical would hurt any worse.. knowing his mind and heart was with them more than me...
> 
> A body part is just that,, but an emotional connection.. that's hard to accept and just "get over".


Good point. An EA involves being checked out of the marriage. The cheater is cheating the spouse out of the emotional aspects and giving it to someone else. 

So, it is just as bad as the PA. 

Also, most EAs given time, do go PA. So, the only reason most EAs are EA's is time or lack of opportunity to hook up.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Good point. An EA involves being checked out of the marriage. The cheater is cheating the spouse out of the emotional aspects and giving it to someone else.
> 
> So, it is just as bad as the PA.
> 
> Also, most EAs given time, do go PA. So, the only reason most EAs are EA's is time or lack of opportunity to hook up.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Reading my fWWs email to her OM, she lamented to him the fact that they had not been able to meet in person yet so they can sleep together.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

It's unfortunate that most people don't get it all out there and deal with the consequences.

To me really a character flaw and I lose respect for anyone who does it. It's not like I don't understand what makes them do it. I just think it's a weak, scared, selfish thing to do.

Normally if you want the truth from someone who's trickling it, you have to be willing to lose them and you have to make some drastic moves so they know 
1. option one is to tell all and we can try to work it out.
2. option two is trickle on out of the relationship.


3. option three is they trickle and you stay and give up trying to find out what happened. DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS OPTION AT ALL.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> It's unfortunate that most people don't get it all out there and deal with the consequences.
> 
> To me really a character flaw and I lose respect for anyone who does it. It's not like I don't understand what makes them do it. I just think it's a weak, scared, selfish thing to do.
> 
> ...


But here's where I'm stuck. I have confronted and confronted about many things. Things trickled over a period of weeks. Since day one I asked about a PA, and he says no. 
He says he would tell me - I've beat him down to where he has said that it would be easier just to say yes, and let me move on from it, but that he will not admit to something he didn't do. 
He knows the things he admitted to have hurt me just as bad as if he HAD done it (admitted intent to meet her to have sex with her). Admitted to pieces of their text conversations that were just as hurtful as if he really DID do what he was saying he'd do to her and vice versa. 

I can't prove he did. He can't prove he didn't. He understands why I would think the way I am thinking, but he can't think of any way to prove that he hasn't even SEEN her since she got laid off of work in 2009. I have her number, I could call her but who knows what she'd say, or if I could believe her whether she said yes or no. But quite honestly I don't want her to even THINK that she's a factor in my life ONE LITTLE BIT. So I don't think that's the way to go. 
So when do you get to the point of letting it go - knowing what you know and moving on? Or how long do you keep looking for answers that you know you can't find - that may or may not even BE there? 

To me, it seems silly and naive of me to believe him.
But it also seems silly of me to leave a 18 year marriage over him lying to me when I truly can't prove it. 

Gets down to it, he hurt me so badly either way. I don't think learning of a PA would've hurt any worse than what I know. It's the possibility of lying to me for three months. But I can't prove he did, and he can't prove he didn't. 

I hit a wall. Just going day by day, and each day (in fact each HOUR), my mind shifts back and forth. 
Not sure what to do.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> But here's where I'm stuck. I have confronted and confronted about many things. Things trickled over a period of weeks. Since day one I asked about a PA, and he says no.
> He says he would tell me - I've beat him down to where he has said that it would be easier just to say yes, and let me move on from it, but that he will not admit to something he didn't do.
> He knows the things he admitted to have hurt me just as bad as if he HAD done it (admitted intent to meet her to have sex with her). Admitted to pieces of their text conversations that were just as hurtful as if he really DID do what he was saying he'd do to her and vice versa.
> 
> ...


I would call her and try to be nice so you can get her to tell you something... anything about what, where, when, etc. If the stories match then you can feel better that he's come clean. If they don't then you have to decide how to handle that. Make sure not to feed her the information that you know or she'll trickle truth an echo back at you.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I would call her and try to be nice so you can get her to tell you something... anything about what, where, when, etc. If the stories match then you can feel better that he's come clean. If they don't then you have to decide how to handle that. Make sure not to feed her the information that you know or she'll trickle truth an echo back at you.


I think I may have mentioned this, but to reiterate:

My wife told me she had been in an EA for several years. I wasn't getting any answers and felt something wasn't right.

One morning, I drove down to the other man's house. As it happens I did it after/during an argument so my wife warned him.

As it was about 9am on a Sunday morning and he wasn't in I figured she had warned him.

If I had have met him I was going to simply ask him what went on. Believe it or not, once I am on the lookout I have a good sense for when people are lying as I am good at finding inconsistencies and felt confident I would be able to tell.

6 Weeks later I started to get the truth from my WW - but this was only because I took the action of going to the other man's house. It was my only recourse at the time and it did yield results - just not in the way I was expecting.

I therefore wholeheartedly agree with Thundarr's suggestion as it is, in reality, your only other option.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

She went out of her way to text me some things back in June. Not realizing that he told me how it started (him pursuing), she wrote to me, "Your husband is lying to you - I didn't start this, he did". I wrote, I know that. Then she wrote the thing about 2009. She said, "hurts, doesn't it honey?" I came back and said, "Well I have a new diamond ring and all you have is a sticky phone and a wet finger". (I'm usually not this vulgar. I was p-o'd). I reacted childishly and called her the S word, and asked her if she wanted a pic of my new ring, because she's so good at exchanging photos. Ended there. Till a few weeks later when I texted from my H's phone (which I explained in another post). Ended with her saying LOSE THIS PHONE NUMBER.

I so much wish I could go back to D-day and re-do all the stupid things I've done, and the way I reacted. Throughout this whole thing, I have turned into someone I don't even recognize. 

My point here is I don't think me calling her trying to be nice will work.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

So Sad Lady said:


> She went out of her way to text me some things back in June. Not realizing that he told me how it started (him pursuing), she wrote to me, "Your husband is lying to you - I didn't start this, he did". I wrote, I know that. Then she wrote the thing about 2009. She said, "hurts, doesn't it honey?" I came back and said, "Well I have a new diamond ring and all you have is a sticky phone and a wet finger". (I'm usually not this vulgar. I was p-o'd). I reacted childishly and called her the S word, and asked her if she wanted a pic of my new ring, because she's so good at exchanging photos. Ended there. Till a few weeks later when I texted from my H's phone (which I explained in another post). Ended with her saying LOSE THIS PHONE NUMBER.
> 
> I so much wish I could go back to D-day and re-do all the stupid things I've done, and the way I reacted. Throughout this whole thing, I have turned into someone I don't even recognize.
> 
> My point here is I don't think me calling her trying to be nice will work.


Oh.

If it's any consolation, I texted the OM from my WW's phone without her knowing so you're not alone.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

The issue with the TT for me was when I "threatened" divorce, his thinking was " if she's going to divorce me, there's no reason to tell the truth anyway",,, and he wanted me to move forward with just the info he was giving me.(not the whole story)..

He is hard set at me not knowing the truth,, so I finally had to come to the realization that I will never know...

And to realize I had to let go.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> The issue with the TT for me was when I "threatened" divorce, his thinking was " if she's going to divorce me, there's no reason to tell the truth anyway",,, and he wanted me to move forward with just the info he was giving me.(not the whole story)..
> 
> He is hard set at me not knowing the truth,, so I finally had to come to the realization that I will never know...
> 
> And to realize I had to let go.


Numb - I could see that happening here, too, if it came to it. 

When you say you realize you had to let go? Do you mean let go of asking for more info, or did you walk from the marriage?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

So Sad Lady said:


> Numb - I could see that happening here, too, if it came to it.
> 
> When you say you realize you had to let go? Do you mean let go of asking for more info, or did you walk from the marriage?



Both... I went through my list of questions 1 more time in counseling,, received TT.. ( the edited version).. or just out right denial. Then in the next session, the MC tried to tell me that since H answered all my questions honestly ( fooled the counselor).. that I need to leave the past in the past now and move forward.. He said that since H did all his work, ALL the future work to move forward was all on me.. WTH!!

So, after seeing I will never know the truth... I knew I could not R.... 

The A was not our only issue... I had allowed him to emotionally abuse me for around 5 years.. this built a lot of resentment up ...

So, it's just been a long hard road,, being co dependent makes it so much harder to let go..

Sorry for the long answer.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I learned about Trickle Truth the hard way.

A good formula to use is to take your worst fears about the 
affair and then double it, just so you're prepared for what they DO tell you.

It's the worst form of abuse I've ever withstood in my life.

Hands down. Not even close.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

When I would tell my H that I didn't believe him.. that I felt there was more to the story, he would say he felt like I wanted him to lie to me and say there was more when there wasn't. I know this is his way of trying to throw me off (doubt myself),, and make it seem like he is being honest with me. 

He is 49 years old, I now know he cheated on his previous wife also, I'm pretty sure he's "seasoned" at blameshifting and gaslighting. 

Just too many stories don't make sense.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi Lady, sorry to join the conversation this late.
I've read every post in your thread, and even though I can't really imagine the pain of having a second dday right after ending up dealing with the first one, my heart goes for you.

I'm going to side with Chriss on what you should do, since you decided to stick around (your husband is one really lucky person) and agree with Thundarr on his description.

Nothing good can come out of forcing out a reaction from your husband that he clearly isn't able to do. I think you had every right to need to know if there were a physical affair. I'm only sorry that you had to figure it out by yourself. I'm glad that you are aware on which details help you cope and which will only bring you down.

I don't want you to be angry furthermore at him, but I really think that he needs to realize that while you accepted the idea to stick with him after realizing that he was capable to cheat and lie about it, the least he can do is to wait for you to heal.
Three months isn't a lot, especially when you had to gather the information and the details by yourself. You thinking about the affair hasn't anything to do with him, it has to do about you coping with the knowledge that you've been betrayed.
I can understand that every time he looks at how miserable you are, it reminds him of his awful deeds. But he doesn't get to not come clean completely AND ask you to move on so quickly.


I am sorry he's making it harder for you to get past it. But at least, when you'll finally come to terms with the devastation, the merit of reaching the other end will only be yours. And that will be one of the most precious things you'll know about yourself. 
Part of him will be well aware that he happened to be the man you love, not the man who deserved you, even if he'll never show it. If that what will take him to not slip to cheating again, then se be it.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> When I would tell my H that I didn't believe him.. that I felt there was more to the story, he would say he felt like I wanted him to lie to me and say there was more when there wasn't. I know this is his way of trying to throw me off (doubt myself),, and make it seem like he is being honest with me.


Wow, that's some really advanced deception techniques. I think you did great to yourself by moving on.


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## So Sad Lady (Aug 31, 2012)

Torrivien said:


> Hi Lady, sorry to join the conversation this late.
> I've read every post in your thread, and even though I can't really imagine the pain of having a second dday right after ending up dealing with the first one, my heart goes for you.
> 
> I'm going to side with Chriss on what you should do, since you decided to stick around (your husband is one really lucky person) and agree with Thundarr on his description.
> ...


Thanks, Torrivien! For reading all of my long-winded posts, and for the response. I go so up and down, every day I feel different...
It helps to get responses, no matter what they are.

You are so kind. I will be reading your story to get caught up here over the weekend. 

Never thought I'd be spending time on a forum about infidelity. But, who would! As they say here in MN, UFF-DA!


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