# suspicious



## seeking manual

My wife recently returned from a 2-week trip abroad. She announced to me several days ago that she's pregnant. It was a shock, since we're careful about birth control (condoms), and have discussed recently that I don't want any more kids.

After the initial shock wore off, suspicions started creeping in. Birth control isn't perfect but, as I mentioned, we're very careful about it, and have never had problems earlier in our 10-year relationship. She told me when her period had been due, so I went ahead and crunched the numbers. Sure enough, she would have ovulated right in the middle of her trip.

Do these sound like the ramblings of a paranoid lunatic, or would you be suspicious, too?

I really don't want another child, and had made that fairly clear each time the topic was brought up over the last year or so. After she told me she's again pregnant, that groundwork made it pretty easy for me to bring up termination as an option. She's opposed to the idea. If she thought she might be carrying a child conceived out of wedlock, surely she would have jumped at that chance, right? She's not morally opposed to abortion, or anything.

I'm so confused... Help!


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## Plan 9 from OS

Isn't it a little early to know for sure if she's pregnant? We're talking 2 weeks from ovulation to her telling you, aren't we?


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## Lovemytruck

Any other red flags?

texting

hiding her phone

Facebook

missing time

treating you poorly

sex more/less frequent

All of these usually happen too.

Go into stealth mode. No talk of her cheating until you can learn more.


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## seeking manual

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Isn't it a little early to know for sure if she's pregnant? We're talking 2 weeks from ovulation to her telling you, aren't we?


Those tests are good. 2 days after missed period, positive. Confirmatory test 2 days later, also positive.


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## ThreeStrikes

It's suspicious.

Are you comfortable raising a child that's not yours?


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## seeking manual

Lovemytruck said:


> Any other red flags?
> 
> texting
> 
> hiding her phone
> 
> Facebook
> 
> missing time
> 
> treating you poorly
> 
> sex more/less frequent
> 
> All of these usually happen too.
> 
> Go into stealth mode. No talk of her cheating until you can learn more.


Good thoughts. TONS of Facebook. I never see her phone. No missing time, though. Who has time for that?

I like the stealth mode idea. Not sure how I'll learn more, though. I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut and eyes/ears open.


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## KanDo

Certainly birth control is not perfect; but, if the timing is as you say, I might be concerned. How confident are you that she actually is pregnant? Could this be a ruse to relax your birth control program to become pregnant against your wishes? Why haven't you gotten snipped if this is the way you feel? 

How have things been in the relationship? Changes in sex life and attitudes? These element might serve to corroborate some of your suspicion. 

The real question is how aggressive have you been in trying to sort things out ( phone records, email snooping, etc.) and will you wait for delivery to question her or will you let her know you will be testing for paternity when she delivers and see how she takes the news.


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## Lovemytruck

check her phone usage if you have access to the billing


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## Lovemytruck

Look up Weightlifter's thead on gathering information. He is the "man" on using voice activated recorders, etc.


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## seeking manual

KanDo said:


> Certainly birth control is not perfect; but, if the timing is as you say, I might be concerned. How confident are you that she actually is pregnant? Could this be a ruse to relax your birth control program to become pregnant against your wishes? Why haven't you gotten snipped if this is the way you feel?
> 
> How have things been in the relationship? Changes in sex life and attitudes? These element might serve to corroborate some of your suspicion.
> 
> The real question is how aggressive have you been in trying to sort things out ( phone records, email snooping, etc.) and will you wait for delivery to question her or will you let her know you will be testing for paternity when she delivers and see how she takes the news.


Good questions. We've got positive UPTs x 2, and morning sickness out the wazoo, so I'm pretty sure we've got he diagnosis right. Confirmatory doctor appointment coming up. I'm scheduling my vasectomy as soon as I can get the time off from work.

The relationship has had its ups and downs, but don't they all? Nothing to make me think things could be THIS bad.

I like the idea of covert snooping. Anyone know if I could get a paternity test done after delivery w/o her knowledge? They'd only need a sample from me and the kid, right?


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## seeking manual

MissFroggie said:


> Birth control isn't perfect and nor is number crunching. I got pregnant while on my period, so I know for a fact fertility is not always in line with cycles and numbers. Condoms are pretty good at preventing pregnancy, but it only takes one rogue sperm to make a baby.
> 
> Are there other reasons other than the pregnancy that make you suspicious? Does she want children? Could it be that she has just gone along with the not wanting children to please you or in the hope you might change your mind? I think you need to talk to her about things but be very careful with your worries that she might have been unfaithful if the only reason to think this is number crunching. Too many relationships have been damaged because of numbers not coinciding with periods only to have DNA confirm the child was theirs. Also, how far into the pregnancy is she? If she keeps the baby are you going to stay with her or could you be looking for an excuse to leave because you don't really want the baby? x


Nope, no other suspicions, really. She does want (more) children. Your point about being careful with my worries is well-taken, indeed. This is all pure speculation, and I'd hate to cause needless damage.


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## movin on

What the [email protected] is your wife doing going on a two week vacation without you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lovemytruck

Is she a girls' nights out kind of a girl? It sounds like if she did cheat is was a fling thing. Does she expose herself to GNO activities with toxic friends? The vacation might be that type of an event. Any male friends or co-workers that you are aware of?


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## tom67

movin on said:


> What the [email protected] is your wife doing going on a two week vacation without you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Was this a work trip?:scratchhead:

Get her phone records and her phone asap.

You have to find out what you are possibly up against.


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## walkonmars

How long ago did she return from the 2 wk trip? 

How old is she/you?


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## Dyokemm

OP,

Pick your 'ears' up on the monitoring right now.

If there was any kind of a LTA going on with a co-worker, she WILL be communicating with him about the potential of the child being his.

If it is the result of a ONS while on the trip, she will probably not communicate with the OM, but will probably go to her closest female confidant with the issue/problem.

Anyway you can record/monitor communications will be important NOW.

A VAR, keylogger, app for capturing texts... these are the tools that will help you discover if this is just a little paranoia on your part or will help you discover the smoking gun if your fears are correct.


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## badmemory

manual,

As I understand it, you can do a DNA test at some point during the pregnancy, I'm sure it's expensive, and of course she will have to know about it. 

You can do a DNA test after the child is born without her knowing about it. Just a sample from you and the child, through the mail; only about 100 bucks or less.

If you do due diligence with the surveillance and find nothing, if it were me, I'd still do the post birth DNA test without her knowing. 

If you find smoking gun evidence of an A, I would push for the pre-birth DNA after you confront. 

But either way, you need to work out what you're going to do if the child isn't yours, and/or you get evidence of an A. Have a plan.


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## Hope1964

Why did you think you needed to check out her dates and stuff? Something must have pricked your ears up - was it just the fact she's pregnant?

I agree with the others that you should start snooping.

Also, why are you getting a V? If you find out she did/is cheating, or that the baby isn't yours, are you going to want to stay married to her? If not, maybe you'll want kids some day with someone else. Just some thoughts.


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## seeking manual

walkonmars said:


> How long ago did she return from the 2 wk trip?
> 
> How old is she/you?


A week ago. We're both about 35.


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## seeking manual

Hope1964 said:


> Also, why are you getting a V? If you find out she did/is cheating, or that the baby isn't yours, are you going to want to stay married to her? If not, maybe you'll want kids some day with someone else. Just some thoughts.


That's a good point.

Lord, I'm glad I found this site. Y'all have been very helpful in getting me to start looking at this from a fresh perspective.


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## badmemory

Hope1964 said:


> Also, why are you getting a V? If you find out she did/is cheating, or that the baby isn't yours, are you going to want to stay married to her? If not, maybe you'll want kids some day with someone else. Just some thoughts.


I agree with Hope. I don't know how old you are, but if any scenario has your marriage ending; you'll want to think long and hard about how a V might effect a future with someone else who may want children.

Edit: You're only 35? Think longer and harder about the V.


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## seeking manual

Lovemytruck said:


> Is she a girls' nights out kind of a girl? It sounds like if she did cheat is was a fling thing. Does she expose herself to GNO activities with toxic friends? The vacation might be that type of an event. Any male friends or co-workers that you are aware of?


Fling thing, exactly. She met up with old (female) college friends while away. I didn't know her at that time, and can only speculate on what kind of behavior they'd bring out...


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## Self Help

Seeking, I am sorry you are in this place. I don't really have anything to add other than I feel your pain. I have been cheated on several times before myself. The suspicions and thoughts are the worst.


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## Hope1964

Are you sure she met up with female college friends? Is this what she told you? How much does she talk about her trip?

You really need to do some snooping. And I agree that you should do a DNA test after the baby's born even if your snooping doesn't turn anything up.


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## yeah_right

I became pregnant while taking the pill. You simply don't know enough yet to make a determination on way or another.


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## arbitrator

*You might have already said, but just prior to her trip in question, how many days before that trip did you and her have PIV sex together?*


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## Thound

I believe I read you used condoms. Do you think she may have spike your condoms? She wants more kids, and you don't .


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## InlandTXMM

Okay, so a wild fling vacation with her college girlfriends, am I reading this right? 

You better believe you have cause for worry. If there is one really common thing about affair sex, it's that it is almost always unprotected.

Mid-30's also? My wife was 33 when she suddenly went wild and needed a tramp stamp tattoo, chopped her hair off, needed nights of drinking and dancing, etc. There is something in the hormones at that age for them.

You need to covertly schedule an STD test for yourself.

I'm sorry you are here, but now that you found TAM, STAY HERE and LISTEN to what these people have to say.


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## Thorburn

MissFroggie said:


> Cool, just hang fire with anything to do with cheating then. Unfortunately, as she is now pregnant even being observant to changes in behaviour/mood are poor indicators. Wait and see what dates the specialists calculate conception at and be careful not to accuse without proof (eg, without proof of an affair, a confession or a DNA test result). Biology is dumbed down so much we think we understand it, but there are so many exceptions to the 'rules' we are taught in high school. Believe me, there are stranger things than getting pregnant out of sync with your cycle!


:iagree: But on the same token the gut reaction is normally pretty good at this stuff. If the OP got suspicious it was for a good reason.

If something happened on the trip I suspect she will be in contact. And if this is the case there was contact prior to the trip. Start looking at computer emails, phone records, etc.

Don't confront till you get proof.


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## aug

Yup, you'll need to get in mode of leaving her if the baby is not yours. Prepare yourself financially. No joint debts, loans. Separate your finance. Start hiding your assets.


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## aug

She may have gotten pregnant when she was on vacation by anyone. A one-night stand, for example.

After you have all your surveillance gadgets in place, why not tell her you dont believe the baby is yours. Watch how she reacts.

Tell her you want the fetus tested for paternity.

See how fast she would agree to an abortion. Unfortunately that abortion would fvck her mind up and you could end up with an emotionally damaged wife. 

You are in a no-win situation.


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## John Lee

seeking manual said:


> A week ago. We're both about 35.


Hang on, so if she got pregnant on the trip it was a MAXIMUM of three weeks ago. Seems a little early for her to already realize she's pregnant, no? Seems more likely to me that there was a birth control failure some time before the trip. Otherwise she would have had to accidentally screw up birth control while on the trip AND know about the pregnancy within a couple of weeks AND immediately decide to tell you rather than cover it up. Just seems hard to believe.


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## John Lee

MissFroggie said:


> What? The OP has already said they have only had positive tests and have yet to see a medical professional for dates, there is no reason to suspect infidelity and that they talked about the possibility of abortion but as she would like more kids (even though he doesn't) abortion is not what she wants. Forcing her to abort would be wrong and assuming anything about the baby's paternity is premature. If she finds a recording device the only thing to expect is trouble, possibly divorce and maybe even a law suit for invasion of privacy. Why are people on here so quick to say 'get out the recording devices your partner is a cheat' without any consideration to what had been posted by the OP themselves?


Because there are a lot of deeply wounded people around here. You have to take what they say with a grain of salt.


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## John Lee

Q: "My wife takes too long in the bathroom. What should I do?"
A: "She's carrying on an affair. VARs under the toilet seat."


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## John Lee

John Lee said:


> Because there are a lot of deeply wounded people around here. You have to take what they say with a grain of salt.


But don't put the grains of salt in their wounds. That'll only hurt more.


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## AlternateUniverse

Strange things can happen. The parents of a good friend of mine decided to stop at 3 kids. Firends mother got her tubes tied. A short time later she was pregnant. After #4 she had her tubes tied again and her husband had a V. A short time later she was pregnant again. There were no more after that and all of the kids have identical physical traits. Real life is stranger than you can make up.


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## weightlifter

First OP SAY NOTHING
Then SAY NOTHING
After that SAY NOTHING

Your odds of an affair at this point Id put at 25%. Im pretty damn good at this hideous task of finding out. Steel yourself for an ugly possibility but say NOTHING!
One red flag and a couple pink ones. Not NEAR ENUF TO SAY ANYTHING. KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!!!!!!!!!

My standard spy gear message below. Do the low level stuff first. Check bills and the GNOs.

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
Rule 1 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 2 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 
Rule 3 for this.
SHUT UP. Eyes open. YOUR mouth closed. confronting only makes them better at hiding. 

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 or ICDPX333 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or less often in the aisle with the fasteners like screws. The velcro pack is mostly blue with a yellow top. Clear pack shows the vecro color which is black or white. 

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. 

Lets be very clear about what the VAR is for and is not for. It will not be court admissible evidence. It is not for the confrontation. IT IS TO GET YOU AHEAD OF THE AFFAIR so you can gain other real evidence by knowing the who and when. NEVER MENTION YOUR VAR EVIDENCE. As far as the cheater is concerned, they were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

There is an app out there called teensafe. Its for both Iphone and Android. It monitors texts, GPS and facebook. Needs no jailbreak. Not perfect and delayed but no jailbreak required.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
Rclawson came up with how to get the PW on an ipad
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...eling-my-wife-cheating-me-16.html#post4692714

A poster named Stigmatizer came up with this nice app that appears to give the caller name for iphones:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...y-creepy-happening-my-home-7.html#post4769890

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/4854930-post220.html
Hi rosie!

If he uses chrome or firefox, there is probably a list of saved passwords you can look at. Even if his email isn't saved there, people usually only use a couple of different passwords, so one from the list might work. 

For firefox it's Tools -> Options -> Security -> Saved Passwords

For Chrome it's the little box with three bars in the top right -> Settings - Show advanced settings -> Managed saved passwords

I don't know if other browsers save the passwords where you can view them but you should be able to google and find out!


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## weightlifter

There is a test that is early but it involves a blood draw but is low risk however unless you are a vampire, Im not thinking of any good way to get it, "Hey honey can I have some blood?"


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## larry.gray

What state do you live in? It used to be that nearly all states would saddle you with paternity since it was always presumed to be the husbands. Now only 3 are left where the husband can't challenge paternity even with a DNA test. If you're in one of those 3, you need to insist on a paternity test before birth so you can divorce her before she gives birth. If you're in any other of the 47, you can challenge after birth and avoid paying child support.


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## larry.gray

MissFroggie said:


> Or you could wait for the doctor to ref you for a scan and see how many weeks she REALLY is. She COULD be a couple of months gone and no worries about paternity.


Yep.

Some women 'spot' and think it's a light period after they're already pregnant.


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## John Lee

MissFroggie said:


> Or you could wait for the doctor to ref you for a scan and see how many weeks she REALLY is. She COULD be a couple of months gone and no worries about paternity.


Nah, that's way too sensible.


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## ToothFairy

On another note.. I am just curious... If you absolutely do not want anymore children why haven't you taken the steps to obtain more convenient and effective birth control? As in a vasectomy?

I don't know about your wife, but I absolutely hate condoms and they are only about 98% affective IF used perfectly. Human error and manufacturer defects can bring that percentage down even lower. Beside this... condoms in my opinion lessen the pleasure of sex. When you are married the last thing you should have to do is put a rubber on in the middle of sex?! 

Are you one of those guys with the attitude of, " not MY balls."
Just curious...


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## TDSC60

seeking manual said:


> A week ago. We're both about 35.


She has only been back from the trip for one week and she has already announced she is pregnant. This is a huge red flag to me. 

Research paternity tests that can be performed before birth.


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## InlandTXMM

aug said:


> She may have gotten pregnant when she was on vacation by anyone. A one-night stand, for example.
> 
> After you have all your surveillance gadgets in place, why not tell her you dont believe the baby is yours. Watch how she reacts.
> 
> Tell her you want the fetus tested for paternity.
> 
> See how fast she would agree to an abortion. Unfortunately that abortion would fvck her mind up and you could end up with an emotionally damaged wife.
> 
> You are in a no-win situation.


This is what I'm thinking too. If the girls got wild on their trip, it could be some dude in a bar, or a stripper, or anyone.

There could be no evidence to gather if it was a ONS and she never knew the man before.

Seriously messed up situation.


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## sinnister

I'm not sensing a whole lot of "other mans baby" here. More like "oops".


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## LongWalk

ToothFairy said:


> On another note.. I am just curious... If you absolutely do not want anymore children why haven't you taken the steps to obtain more convenient and effective birth control? As in a vasectomy?
> 
> I don't know about your wife, but I absolutely hate condoms and they are only about 98% affective IF used perfectly. Human error and manufacturer defects can bring that percentage down even lower. Beside this...* condoms in my opinion lessen the pleasure of sex*. When you are married the last thing you should have to do is put a rubber on in the middle of sex?!
> 
> Are you one of those guys with the attitude of, " *not MY balls."
> Just curious*...


Good points. I can't reach orgasm in a condom and the feeling sucks. Why would rubber feel good?

Circumcision (genital mutilation IMO) also lessen pleasure, especially as we age. Sorry for the digression.

But regarding vasectomy, I personally would never feel comfortable doing that to my body. I think men and women measure their partners health in part by examining semen, in whatever way the animal part of us is able to instinctively do this. To play with that natural function is alter our sexuality.

BC should not be solely the woman's responsibility. I guess IUD seem like a good solution to me, but when my ex had one, she had bad reaction. There was once a product, Nonoxynol-9, that we liked but disappeared from the market because it is not reliable enough. Also weakens immunity to HPV and HIV.

If couple can follow a woman's cycle carefully and avoid intercourse at the wrong (right) time, can that work?

Sorry for the thread jack.

OP,

I sympathize with your situation. If you accuse your wife infidelity and it later proves to be your child, you will have damaged your marriage for lack of faith.

On the other hand if you fail to act, e.g. by testing prior to birth, you risk having a child that will cause you to divorce. This is a Catch-22 situation.

It is very easy to say that you can or cannot stand raising another man's child, who knows how he would react having not been in your shoes?

If the pregnancy resulted from a one night stand, there is little likelihood that the father of the child is interested in your wife. But you never know. I would want to find out is she added name to her phone at that time? Anyone new on FB?

One person who might know the truth is her GF, but that woman has no interest in spilling the beans to you. Is that woman single? Sorry if you covered that but I cannot refer to your first post as I write. Emails between the two of them might give you more information.

From the selfish gene perspective your wife would be following a natural reproductive strategy if she had an ONS on holiday. It is a very clever move by the selfish gene. You did not have the opportunity to win a sperm war.


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## Chaparral

John Lee said:


> Because there are a lot of deeply wounded people around here. You have to take what they say with a grain of salt.


The problem with this disrespectful post is that by the time people post here the probability that they are being cheated on is close to 100%. Unfortunate but true.

Pick twenty reads at random and see how many found no cheating was going on. Better yet pick a hundred.


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## seeking manual

Please let me thank you all for your contributions. I feel very fortunate to have found this site.

I've read all above replies, and have digested your insight. I think I've got the gist, at this point. I'll be sure to come back later on (following doctor appointments and deliveries, assuming things progress that way) with updated information. For now, though, here's my slant on the take-away messages:

- My story is suspicious enough to warrant being concerned, but certainly not worrisome enough on its own to warrant action. I knew the second part was true, but I appreciate validation on the first.

- Quietly checking myself for STDs would be wise.

- Quietly sending off a paternity test after delivery is probably justifiable, unless other data from doctor visits throw the estimated conception date out of the travel window.

So, for now, I plan to keep quiet and go about my business as usual. I appreciate all the input regarding surveillance, but will probably not act along those lines right now. I don't have confidence in my ability to pull it off discretely, I'm not certain any identifiable clues have been left behind, and I'm not sure what I have to gain by gathering information early. I'm a patient guy, and don't mind waiting for definitive answers (i.e. a post-delivery paternity test). If I'm missing any reasons why waiting is a bad idea, please let me know.

Thanks again!


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## larry.gray

Chaparral said:


> Pick twenty reads at random and see how many found no cheating was going on. Better yet pick a hundred.


Off hand I can't think of someone who's come back with "I've checked up 100% on my H/W and I'm sure they're clean."


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## larry.gray

seeking manual said:


> I'm a patient guy, and don't mind waiting for definitive answers (i.e. a post-delivery paternity test). If I'm missing any reasons why waiting is a bad idea, please let me know.
> 
> Thanks again!


You're certainly taking a reasonable approach on this. 

As for why it's _possibly_ a bad idea depends on where you live. Some states will saddle you with child support if it's not your kid if you divorce her after birth. If you live in one of those, it would be smart to check before the kid is born.


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## John Lee

TDSC60 said:


> She has only been back from the trip for one week and she has already announced she is pregnant. This is a huge red flag to me.
> 
> Research paternity tests that can be performed before birth.


I don't know, seems like the opposite to me -- why would she announce a pregnancy only a couple weeks after conception from another man? You guys know a period comes like two weeks after ovulation right? She couldn't even be that late based on his story.


----------



## NextTimeAround

John Lee said:


> Q: "My wife takes too long in the bathroom. What should I do?"
> A: "She's carrying on an affair. VARs under the toilet seat."


My sister figured out that her bf found someone new when he took his phone into the bathroom.


----------



## InlandTXMM

John Lee said:


> Q: "My wife takes too long in the bathroom. What should I do?"
> A: "She's carrying on an affair. VARs under the toilet seat."


You know, smarta$$, it isn't the wife taking too long in the bathroom that sends a person to our site.

It is *a noticeable change in the spouse's regular behavior*, mixed with other red flags, that sends them here.

Almost NEVER is the BS's intuition wrong. Sad but true.


----------



## remorseful strayer

InlandTXMM said:


> Okay, so a wild fling vacation with her college girlfriends, am I reading this right?
> 
> You better believe you have cause for worry. If there is one really common thing about affair sex, it's that it is almost always unprotected.
> 
> Mid-30's also? My wife was 33 when she suddenly went wild and needed a tramp stamp tattoo, chopped her hair off, needed nights of drinking and dancing, etc. There is something in the hormones at that age for them.
> 
> You need to covertly schedule an STD test for yourself.
> 
> I'm sorry you are here, but now that you found TAM, STAY HERE and LISTEN to what these people have to say.


This is an excellent observation. Some infidelity counselors opine that men go though their mid life crisis in their early to late 50s, while women go through their mid life crisis in the early to late 30s.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Thorburn said:


> :iagree: But on the same token the gut reaction is normally pretty good at this stuff. If the OP got suspicious it was for a good reason.
> 
> If something happened on the trip I suspect she will be in contact. And if this is the case there was contact prior to the trip. Start looking at computer emails, phone records, etc.
> 
> Don't confront till you get proof.


Good point. The OP should trust his gut. He must be feeling something is off with her trip story. 

Also, if he can't wait until the baby is born to do a DNA. He can always tell her he is going to demand one after the baby is born, because the pregnancy does seem to match ovulation dates, and then watch her facial expression. 

He can also demand a poly. 

As for proof, if the baby is not his, that's all the proof he needs in divorce court to prove she was cheating.


----------



## tom67

remorseful strayer said:


> Good point. The OP should trust his gut. He must be feeling something is off with her trip story.
> 
> Also, if he can't wait until the baby is born to do a DNA. He can always tell her he is going to demand one after the baby is born, because the pregnancy does seem to match ovulation dates, and then watch her facial expression.
> 
> He can also demand a poly.
> 
> As for proof, if the baby is not his, that's all the proof he needs in divorce court to prove she was cheating.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## remorseful strayer

MissFroggie said:


> :iagree: Please make sure the OP with so few posts knows this too. I understand that there are a lot of people here who have been hurt and are hurting deeply. They also do not want anyone else to feel the same pain. Unfortunately, although their intentions are good they sometimes miss what has been said and assess it purely on what has happened to them instead of what is true for the OP. This lassie has only had a positive pregnancy test - she could be a good couple of months pregnant! I know I would be so hurt and angry if someone accused me of infidelity that it would be hard to overcome and finding a recording device would be huge warning bells that he was controlling and paranoid and disrespectful to me too. I got pregnant while menstruating, all my pregnancies have included bleeding and morning sickness always kicked in about 6 weeks pregnant not 2. It doesn't mean anything as everyone is different, but it does mean that until you have at very least seen a specialist and had scans you can not assume it is an affair. It also seems very strange to me that if she had an affair on holiday she would straight away take tests, report back to H she is pregnant and say abortion is out of the question. If dates don't add up later when they are more accurate and you keep the baby a DNA test is pretty much a sure thing. It doesn't sound like she is hiding anything at all and the OP doesn't see any reason to worry about anything else either. Let's not fuel worries into paranoia when we can protect and help someone who very soon could find out she is 2 months gone etc and there is no chance it is not his. Let's keep our heads and help the OP keep his too and not end up doing something out of paranoia because someone once cheated on someone else in other lifetimes and in other lives.


While I like your intelligently worded post, the fact that she went on this trip and then came back to announce a whoops type of pregnancy, would make any reasonable male suspicious. 

If she does not want to field these types of questions from her husband. She needs to refrain going on trips without her spouse.


----------



## remorseful strayer

ToothFairy said:


> On another note.. I am just curious... If you absolutely do not want anymore children why haven't you taken the steps to obtain more convenient and effective birth control? As in a vasectomy?
> 
> I don't know about your wife, but I absolutely hate condoms and they are only about 98% affective IF used perfectly. Human error and manufacturer defects can bring that percentage down even lower. Beside this... condoms in my opinion lessen the pleasure of sex. When you are married the last thing you should have to do is put a rubber on in the middle of sex?!
> 
> Are you one of those guys with the attitude of, " not MY balls."
> Just curious...


A vasectomy is not the healthiest surgery for a male to have. 

It has been implicated in an increase in heart issues.


----------



## Racer

You can also ask for a paternity test at the delivery quietly. They do run a whole battery of test on the infant anyway.

Oh, and why you might want to do that is to keep your name off the birth certificate if you aren't the father. It would make a difference if you divorce and child support.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

yeah_right said:


> I became pregnant while taking the pill. You simply don't know enough yet to make a determination on way or another.


Yes, be very careful. We were extremely careful on birth control and condoms. The ONE time she took a dose late, ONE PILL, we didn't use a condom and she got pregnant. Still, gut and timing I completely understand your concern. I'd be snooping as well.


> Why shouldn't she be able to go on holiday?


PArsing things can make an argument worse. No one said she couldn't have a holiday. It is all the things in totality that make him nervous.


----------



## remorseful strayer

MissFroggie said:


> My bf found out I had a wheat intolerance.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't know how far into the pregnancy she is. They have only had a couple of positive home pregnancy tests, not a scan. To take such aggressive action against your pregnant wife is a bit extreme at this time IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Why shouldn't she be able to go on holiday? There has been no indication that was an issue before the pregnancy test, which does not indicate how many weeks pregnant she is. The concern was IF the dates turn out to be during that time then there might have been something adulterous.
> 
> How far do we take that thinking of *"If she does not want to field these types of questions from her husband. She needs to refrain going on trips without her spouse."*? How long until that justifies quizzing her for going to the hairdressers without her husband, or shopping, or work, or anywhere? If you are going to cheat you can find an opportunity to cheat just about any where any time. If you're not a cheater being quizzed on whether you have been faithful will soon become irritating and insulting to your integrity.


I think Phillybeffandswisss already answered this for me. 

It's not just the trip. It's everything in aggregate. 

Also, what's wrong with a wife allaying her husbands suspicions about a girl's trip. 

IMO, it's normal to be somewhat suspicious given they agreed no more kids and were taking precautions. 

If she had a hurried drunken one nighter, it's also highly unlikely she was thinking clearly enough to have a condom handy.

Lastly, it's highly unhealthy in a marriage for a spouse to take guy's and girls only holidays. 

If you want to do those things, stay single. 

Yes, yes I know the past wisdom was to give your spouse plenty of freedom, but the shrinks now know that boy's and girl's nights out and girl's or boy's only holidays are contributing to a large proportion of marital failures.


----------



## MrK

You can do some soft spying right now. Check the cell bill for ph #'s, check her facebook/twitter/instagram and those of her toxic...uh, college... friends. SOMEBODY posted about their wild two week vacation away from hubby.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

MissFroggie said:


> Actually they did:


"They" is plural, that is one poster. Second, you took that out of context. That doesn't imply she can't go on any trips ever. If she doesn't want to answer questions about a trip then she shouldn't go. If I can't answer where I went, with my friends, then the same applies to me. It doesn't mean I can't go anywhere, it means that I might have to answer some questions if things make my wife uncomfortable. I'm cool with that when I'm married or in an exclusive relationship. Maybe you see it as controlling, that's fine as well. We will argue this all day, so you can have the last word on how wrong I am, in your eyes.


----------



## 86857

seeking manual said:


> Birth control isn't perfect but, as I mentioned, we're very careful about it, and have never had problems earlier in our 10-year relationship.


Does your wife seem as perplexed as you are? 
Condoms used perfectly are 98% effective. You have managed to be careful for 10 years and you seem quite sure you don't want another child. Are you sure you weren't a little careless given she was going away on holiday?



> If she thought she might be carrying a child conceived out of wedlock, surely she would have jumped at that chance, right? She's not morally opposed to abortion.


Many women, including myself, not opposed to abortion say that if faced with the decision, they are not sure they could go through with it. 



> I'm so confused... Help!


I really felt for you when I read your post. 
In a perfect world (and in a perfect relationship!) you would simply be honest with her. You could tell her that you could never imagine her cheating, but you just cannot work out how she is pregnant because you were so careful, especially so because you don't want another baby. You could add jokingly that you can always get a paternity test when the baby is born. 
I know. . . It's a conundrum. It could cause a rift if she has been faithful and there was simply 'one that got away'. There is the 2% chance, more if you weren't perfectly careful. 

My main concern is that you have almost 9 months ahead of you with the thought in the back of your mind that the baby may not be yours. I know you said you are patient but psychologically it could be very taxing and possibly put a strain on your relationship. 

How is your relationship otherwise? Have there been any other signs that made you suspicious? How vigorous is your disagreement about having another baby? Please forgive me if I'm wrong but I had the feeling there might be more to your story. 

Finally if it were me I would want to get to the bottom of it now. You were concerned that you wouldn't be able to pull off the snooping. If you read TAM you will see that there are very many totally 'non-techie' BS who managed to snoop very effectively. It's not hard, believe me, and there's plenty of help on here such as the evidence gathering thread. 

I agree with others, you are definitely too young to have a V.

I wish you well whichever way you decide to proceed.


----------



## Vanguard

She cheated.
Guarantee it. 

She went on vacation without you. That's someone else's kid.


----------



## weightlifter

This is all speculation until the OP does some soft intel as has been suggested.

We have had a few that did turn out to be bad timing red flags and nothing.

RDMUs first inkling was a walmart receipt with silk stockings that his wife bought but never saw the light of day. 3 weeks later he came here with pretty weak evidence. Lets face it anyone could have shot his azz down with what he started with on his weak confront. THIS is why the OP needs to keep his mouth shut and eyes open.

With given evidence level there is a probability that this is NOT an affair. Now if more red flags start popping up...


----------



## calmwinds

Just my two cents...A woman who is freshly back from vacation and gets a positive pregnancy test telling her husband immediately when she finds out is not suspicious to me. If she feared the pregnancy was due to OM, she would still be in OH SH!T mode and in a panic, making great strides NOT to tell, or initiating unprotected amorous pursuit with her H to make him think it's his.


----------



## TDSC60

OP has enough evidence to merit concern. He made his calculation base on her cycle and it came out she was ovulating right in the middle of the 2 week vacation. Then she announces she is pregnant after 7 days at home.

I think OP is doing what is best for him and his situation. I can find no fault in his plan.

Good luck OP and I hope the child is yours.


----------



## aug

seeking manual said:


> My wife recently returned from a 2-week trip abroad. She announced to me several days ago that she's pregnant. It was a shock, since we're careful about birth control (condoms), and have discussed recently that I don't want any more kids.
> 
> After the initial shock wore off, suspicions started creeping in. Birth control isn't perfect but, as I mentioned, we're very careful about it, and have never had problems earlier in our 10-year relationship. *She told me when her period had been due, so I went ahead and crunched the numbers. Sure enough, she would have ovulated right in the middle of her trip.
> *
> Do these sound like the ramblings of a paranoid lunatic, or would you be suspicious, too?



Did you asked her if she had her period during her trip? (This question would raise a flag in her head.)

Did she missed her period during her trip? Is that why she suspected she was pregnant?

If she had her period during her trip then her pregnancy is suspicious (obviously). Why would she be checking for pregnancy then?

If she didn't had her period, then the baby should be a month or more along and due in 8 months?


----------



## remorseful strayer

MissFroggie said:


> Nothing at all, but he hasn't actually said anything about it to her and was trying to work out whether to or whether to wait until there is more info regarding the date of conception. I just think he should wait and see if it is even possible that it was during her trip before accusing her of cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> The OP has also said that it was him who didn't want kids but she did. Condoms are not 100% reliable and knowing that she wants more kids but he doesn't could bring it to a completely different conversation than infidelity. You can fit more than one prick in a condom you know lol  or it could be a genuine case of contraception failure...it does happen.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but the key word in this sentence is 'IF'.
> 
> 
> 
> The OP did not say why she was away and for some reason everyone is assuming it was a drunken, girls-only holiday. He said:
> 
> 
> 
> This could have been business or anything. Without asking the OP it is strange to _assume_ it was anything inappropriate.


Thank you for the clarification, but I and others understand all that. 

The ADVICE has been that it's normal to GO AHEAD and question her. 

She should not be insulted and want a divorce or feel angry about this question. 

It's seems to most a perfectly reasonable question, given the situation. 

Also, he already mentioned that she went to meet old girlfriends. Therefore even if it was a business trip, she was on a girl's night out in a faaaaar away country. 

Maybe she was good, but the husband needs her to assure him of that because she had easy opportunity to cheat, and her ovulation dates are seemingly off.


----------



## larry.gray

MissFroggie said:


> If counting days after a bleed was so reliable you would only need to use condoms a couple of days a month. You don't because we are aware enough that it is not accurate enough. How is it being taken as accurate enough to accuse someone of infidelity without finding out first how far into the pregnancy she is? She could easily have been pregnant before she went away.


Don't forget the little swimmers live for 5-7 days too. She may have indeed ovulated on the trip but still got pregnant by the OP. That's part of why barrier methods must be used the whole cycle.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yes, that's why I think he should be careful. There are gut feelings and then there are "oh @#$!, I was done having kids" feelings.


----------



## InlandTXMM

larry.gray said:


> Don't forget the little swimmers live for 5-7 days too. She may have indeed ovulated on the trip but still got pregnant by the OP. That's part of why barrier methods must be used the whole cycle.


EXCELLENT point.


----------



## LongWalk

So, the consensus is nothing can be calculated for certain, so the OP must wait. However, he did not say which state he lived in and what the presumptive paternity laws look like in his state. That will be critical. 

Stay away from the scissors, Underground. Go to the gym. Get in super shape. I suggest you keep a diary to cope with this... Well, TAM is the same idea, more or less.


----------



## NextTimeAround

NextTimeAround said:


> My sister figured out that her bf found someone new when he took his phone into the bathroom.





MissFroggie said:


> My bf found out I had a wheat intolerance.


Is this how you figured out that your partner was cheating.


----------



## Chaparral

MissFroggie said:


> My bf found out I had a wheat intolerance.
> 
> 
> 
> They don't know how far into the pregnancy she is. They have only had a couple of positive home pregnancy tests, not a scan. To take such aggressive action against your pregnant wife is a bit extreme at this time IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Why shouldn't she be able to go on holiday? There has been no indication that was an issue before the pregnancy test, which does not indicate how many weeks pregnant she is. The concern was IF the dates turn out to be during that time then there might have been something adulterous.
> 
> How far do we take that thinking of *"If she does not want to field these types of questions from her husband. She needs to refrain going on trips without her spouse."*? How long until that justifies quizzing her for going to the hairdressers without her husband, or shopping, or work, or anywhere? If you are going to cheat you can find an opportunity to cheat just about any where any time. If you're not a cheater being quizzed on whether you have been faithful will soon become irritating and insulting to your integrity.


If you came back from a trip like this and told our man you were pregnant and he always used condoms, the only way he would not be suspicious is if he were a complete idiot.

I would never agree to separate vacations. After being here for a week, I would tell her if she goes, don't come back. Lol


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> If you came back from a trip like this and told our man you were pregnant and he always used condoms, the only way he would not be suspicious is if he were a complete idiot.
> 
> I would never agree to separate vacations. After being here for a week, I would tell her if she goes, don't come back. Lol


Bottom line is he has to get informed legally.

He has to get the pre birth test done.

Could a condom have malfunctioned yes, is it probable, no.


----------



## LongWalk

She could have been pregnant before she went on the trip. Her physician will tell them how far along the child is. He ought to go with her so that he can get the information first hand.

Did the the OP mention the last time that they had sex before her trip?


----------



## larry.gray

seeking manual said:


> After she told me she's again pregnant, that groundwork made it pretty easy for me to bring up termination as an option. She's opposed to the idea. If she thought she might be carrying a child conceived out of wedlock, surely she would have jumped at that chance, right? She's not morally opposed to abortion, or anything.





********** said:


> Many women, including myself, not opposed to abortion say that if faced with the decision, they are not sure they could go through with it.


This jogged my memory about a woman that my wife worked with 15 years ago.

She was raped, and since this was before "Plan B" was commonly given to rape victims, she ended up pregnant. Her husband already had a V, so there was no doubt who the father was. She was pro-choice, as was the husband. But when it came to the thought of killing her own kid, she couldn't do it. Even when her husband told her that he would leave her she didn't. He said that he could support her and stay with her after a rape, but not with a child from the man. They ended up divorcing.

I relate this because even if that child is the smoking gun proof of SM's wife's infidelity, she may not be able to go through with it.

Pretty F'd up story all the way around.


----------



## seeking manual

Well, I was really looking forward to coming back here to post that this had all been a big misunderstanding. No such luck.

Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. My wife called afterwards, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure).

She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away".

I'm sticking to the advice I received here and am keeping my mouth shut, so I said nothing. But, really? "Pretty sure"?

What a mess.


----------



## aug

seeking manual said:


> Well, I was really looking forward to coming back here to post that this had all been a big misunderstanding. No such luck.
> 
> Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. My wife called afterwards, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure).
> 
> *She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away".
> *
> I'm sticking to the advice I received here and am keeping my mouth shut, so I said nothing. But, really? "Pretty sure"?
> 
> What a mess.



"because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around"

Well, that sucks. She's not even sure herself that she fooled around?

This opens the opportunity for you to get a prenatal paternity testing done. 

In the meantime, I would suggest you proceed as though you would be divorced. Separate your finances, loans, insurances, etc. Check up on your legal responsibility to the baby if you remain married and the child is not yours.


----------



## tom67

seeking manual said:


> Well, I was really looking forward to coming back here to post that this had all been a big misunderstanding. No such luck.
> 
> Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. My wife called afterwards, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure).
> 
> She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away".
> 
> I'm sticking to the advice I received here and am keeping my mouth shut, so I said nothing. But, really? "Pretty sure"?
> 
> What a mess.


That is a mess and she must think you are a moron.

I don't know I would have a sit down with her you just be cool and calm but firm and say "I want the truth tell me now before I have the prenatal DNA test."
It's your call but to live in limbo like this is bs.

I mean come on you were wearing a condom for crying out loud.


----------



## tom67

aug said:


> "because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around"
> 
> Well, that sucks. She's not even sure herself that she fooled around?
> 
> This opens the opportunity for you to get a prenatal paternity testing done.
> 
> In the meantime, I would suggest you proceed as though you would be divorced. Separate your finances, loans, insurances, etc. Check up on your legal responsibility to the baby if you remain married and the child is not yours.


:iagree:Get this done before you confront her.
If you told her you were pretty sure you didn't fool around what do you think she would do...kick you to the curb what bs and disrespect.


----------



## Hope1964

It isn't unheard of for sperm to hang around for up to a week after sex and still be viable. So it isn't IMPOSSIBLE that she did get pg in the middle of her trip if you had sex and a condom broke a week before.

Chances are like one quadrillion to one, but stranger things have happened.

If she does have a miscarriage, are you going to still get a paternity test?


----------



## Hicks

I would be doing a lie dector test at this point.

There are too many low probablility things on her side of the equation. A bunch of low odds things have had to occur. 1. Condom failure. 2. Ovulation too early. 3. Baby size is unusually small. 

If you have a good wife and a non cheating wife, she may get pissed that you don't trust her, but after hearing your side of the equatoin expressed with these odds, she would acquiesce.

If you have a cheating wife, she will go way overboard how you dont trust her, too controlling and refuse to take the test.


----------



## AMRAP

OP, You can get a paternity test during pregnancy. I believe it is after the first trimester. There was thread on here a few months back where the BS had it done with his pregnant wife. It cost about $2,000. If it were me, it would be money well spent.

You could tell your wife you want to do the test. Knowing you'll get the real answer anyway, she will likely spill the beans before you actually go through with it.


----------



## Lovemytruck

One silver lining is that you have some time between now and the birth of the baby to prepare for the worst.

Use the time to quietly investigate more. Save some money for a possible move/divorce.

If nothing concrete happens, have the baby tested (DNA) and decide what to do then.

This sucks. It sounds like she is just going to play it, and let you be the fall guy for her and the innocent baby.

Wish I could think of something better to say.


----------



## tom67

The red flag was "pretty sure" she did not mess around.

Did she get so drunk she blacked out?:slap:

something is rotten here


----------



## TDSC60

seeking manual said:


> Well, I was really looking forward to coming back here to post that this had all been a big misunderstanding. No such luck.
> 
> Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. My wife called afterwards, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure).
> 
> She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away".
> 
> I'm sticking to the advice I received here and am keeping my mouth shut, so I said nothing. But, really? "Pretty sure"?
> 
> What a mess.


I would have to ask her what she meant by "Pretty sure". That is not unreasonable and any sane man would ask what she meant by that under the circumstances.

That statement and the doctor's conclusions opens the door for a DNA test prior to birth in my mind.

Edit. She may have said that to give you an opening to question her further. She is feeling guilty about something. I am waiting for the "I was drunk at a party, passed out and woke up with a guy in bed. I don't know what happened".


----------



## tom67

TDSC60 said:


> I would have to ask her what she meant by "Pretty sure". That is not unreasonable and any sane man would ask what she meant by that under the circumstances.
> 
> That statement and the doctor's conclusions opens the door for a DNA test prior to birth in my mind.


Exactly
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Unprotected sex at the right time for the selfish gene to express itself. 

1) Abortion
Do you oppose it. Does she oppose it.
2) Paternity
Can the father be contacted? Does he want to raise it? Pay child support?
3) What if the child's father has very different appearance? 
4) Birth defects... What then?
5) Child birth
If you divorce now, will your wife have insurance coverage?
6) Did you have sex during pregnancy before? Are you still intimate.

Perhaps you should 180 your wife and wait for her confession. Given the circumstantial evidence, your wife would have to consider you dimwitted to not be on to her infidelity.

I would say good morning, good night and little more about anything that was not a joint responsibility.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## bryanp

She clearly thinks you are an idiot and very easy to manipulate.


----------



## nancy.ramos

Also, observe if she is worried about the fetus being a late bloomer. If it were me, I would be very worried if it is late by 2 weeks at that early stage. The only reason she won't be worried is because she knows the real conception date.


----------



## LongWalk

BryanP,

She knows that he knows. His fears and suspicions must be written all over his face. She is avoiding confession in the hopes that he will just bite his tongue and accept the baby.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

seeking manual said:


> She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away".


Wow, she is setting you up for the "the DNA didn't match, I was drunk" Scenario. Let's say it is yours, that small phrase would bother me for the rest of our marriage.

She basically told you something happened on or before the trip. Let us know how the gaslighting goes if you do confront. Be prepared for "that's not what I said," "I thought you were asking a different question" or "It was a joke, I knew you were uncomfortable with my trip."


----------



## tom67

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Wow, she is setting you up for the "the DNA didn't match, I was drunk" Scenario. Let's say it is yours, that small phrase would bother me for the rest of our marriage.
> 
> She basically told you something happened on or before the trip. Let us know how the gaslighting goes if you do confront. Be prepared for "that's not what I said," "I thought you were asking a different question" or "It was a joke, I knew you were uncomfortable with my trip."


Oh yeah
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## terrence4159

bright spot in all of this is if you make 1 phone call man you can be on MAURY!! MAURY!! can get the lie detector and dna test in one stop and a free trip to where ever MAURY!! is at


----------



## tom67

terrence4159 said:


> bright spot in all of this is if you make 1 phone call man you can be on MAURY!! MAURY!! can get the lie detector and dna test in one stop and a free trip to where ever MAURY!! is at


:smthumbup::smthumbup:

:rofl::lol:


----------



## Chaparral

Condoms are only considered moderatly effective in preventing pregnancy. One table I looked up said 18 out of 100 couples that use condoms, will get pregnant in a given year.

As a long term birth control measure, we were taught that condoms were only 50% effective. Birth control pills were considered 98% effective.

Where I'm from, saying pretty sure is just used as an understatement to suggest an idea is ridiculous.

If you go accusing your wife of infidelity at this point, you are making a serious mistake.

As far as the effectiveness of condoms being a good idea to stop pregnancy or disease, who the hell thinks that? Unless you live under a rock of course. Lol

This doesn't meean your wife did not cheat. 30 percent of wives do.


----------



## 86857

MissFroggie said:


> It really depends on how it was said


Does it? 
If my spouse told me he was 'pretty sure' he didn't mess around on his holiday, it wouldn't really matter how he said it. 
Further, even if the baby is his, that hurtful comment is going to give him plenty to worry about. 
Frankly, I would be furious. 

OP, did you notice any other signs? We pick up even the most imperceptible of changes in our spouses. 

I can't tell you how much I hope, for all concerned, that there is an explanation for this.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

You are jumping to conclusions. It is impossible to tell the day she conceived. Condoms and other birth control methods are not fool proof methods of preventing pregnancy. 

Don't accuse your wife of cheating before you get the facts straight. Yes, it is possible she cheated, but it is also possible that this is your child. Just because you don't want another child, doesn't mean that this baby isn't yours. Either way, it sounds like this marriage is over.


----------



## InlandTXMM

Let me add a real-life scenario to this. When my wife got pregnant with our first child, the doctor kept telling us he was 3 weeks younger than he was. Even though we knew the conception time frame, he kept saying the baby was 20 weeks when we knew he was 23 or so.

At the doctor's "40-week" time table, my wife thought she was finally in labor and we went in to the hospital. They said she was still having false labor, but because she was at the due date (according to the doctor), they'd ultrasound the baby just to make sure things are okay. 

The nurse got concerned during the ultrasound and the doctor told my wife they were going to keep her and induce labor. It turns out my wife lacked the necessary hormones to go into labor on her own, and my son had been in there so long the placenta had partially calcified.

It took three people holding the forceps to deliver my son, and after his birth they said he was... you guessed it... 43-44 weeks along, not 40. 

Our second child, the doctors started out saying the same thing - that she was 2 weeks younger than we thought she was. We told our new ob/gyn about the last situation and she agreed to deliver our daughter based on OUR conception date, not on the ultrasound.

Your wife may very well have been pregnant before her trip. Do NOT place too much faith in the time frames given to you by the doctors.


----------



## InlandTXMM

On the "pretty sure" comment, I read that as sarcasm. I would say something like that. I don't think we need to page Dr. Freud on it.

I do believe the OP has some cause for concern, because of the trip and the weird timing of the pregnancy. I don't believe he has enough, yet, to risk blowing a family up.


----------



## LongWalk

IILWMH,

He should not accuse her of cheating. However, the chances that the child is his seem very small. Did he mention having sex shortly prior to her departure? Sperm are viable 4 or 5 days. If her period came early, maybe, just maybe. But if they didn't have sex for three or four days before her trip, well, that would make it very difficult.

In that case the baby would be much older. A fact that does not jive with the fetal development.

Perhaps there is scientifically sound explanation, but at any rate the wife should know that her husband cannot be thinking of anything else besides the paternal mystery she has presented. He can bring forth answers by either confronting or waiting. 

When she talks about the pregnancy her words are presumably going to be met more or less with silence. She is going to have to spill her guts sooner rather than later, unless OP reassures her that everything is hunky dory.


----------



## Thound

MissFroggie said:


> I was thinking the same about the 'pretty sure'. It is the kind of thing I would say, but writing it down makes it sound like a doubt or half-confession. It really depends on how it was said, but the OP is suggesting it was not said in that way and he is either right or he is misreading it because this is such a sensitive issue and he is worried.
> 
> 
> 
> This is true, but the 'one quadrillion to one' is a long way off. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen enough that it is not considered unusual. It actually happened to me with a pregnancy a couple of years ago and I got paranoid he had done something to me in my sleep - because I knew I hadn't slept with him at that point. The doctor told me about sperm hanging around like that - I hadn't known before then it could be so long after.
> 
> I know I was saying in these posts that you should wait for the dates and I am glad you have, but knowing it has been estimated right in the middle of her trip you do now need to find out if anything happened. I don't think it is uncalled for to discuss this with her and watch closely to her reactions. Know what you will ask before you start the conversation and try to keep it as much a discussion as you can rather than a big confrontation.
> 
> All those saying about getting a polygraph - they don't work, so don't even go down that line. We don't use them in the UK because they have been proved to be so unreliable as they do not measure lying, they measure the body's reactions. A question causing someone embarrassment could register as a lie when it was their body's natural way of reacting to any question like that. Also, it is easy to cheat a polygraph - I know because I can - it's so simple and therefore meaningless. If she passes it you don't know if she cheated it, if she fails you don't know if it was anxiety or embarrassment or some other reaction it was picking up on rather than lying. Waste of time and money!
> 
> I was totally against the notion of dna testing during pregnancy. This was banned in the UK because of the risk to the unborn baby, but I have just looked into it and found there is now a non-intrusive procedure and it is totally safe to mother and baby. This is definitely worth considering if you feel you really need to know or if the outcome of it will change what you do next. There is some info here that may be useful to you: Paternity Testing | American Pregnancy Association
> 
> There is a lot of talk of divorce here already, but I know of men who have stayed even when they knew the baby was from an affair and brought them up as their own. I'm not saying the baby is from an affair and I'm not saying you should stay if it is...just that you don't necessarily have to divorce even if the worst is true...it is something you would have to think through properly before you decided what was best for you.
> 
> I am really sorry you are dealing with this and I am still hoping it turns out nothing happened and the baby is yours, but I do think you are justified to start asking questions now. Go gently though because if that baby is yours you don't want to have ruined things over questioning paternity - it needs to be established but maybe going down the route of it being about your worries rather than about accusing her would work? Kind of "It's ridiculous, I know you wouldn't do anything and condoms are not 100% but I can't stop thinking about the dates, it's driving me mad that I can't get it out of my mind" Perhaps? I don't know, just ideas!


They work if you believe they work.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wanting1

I just wanted to jump in with a little story of what happened to me. I have no idea, of course, whether or not your wife cheated on you. But if the only reason you have to suspect is that her ovulation might have happened during her trip, you don't have much to go on.

With 2 of my pregnancies, I knew the date of conception because I know when I am ovulating and my husband had been out of town during the weeks before that. Both of these pregnancies were given conception dates by the OB/GYN that were 2 weeks prior (based on my last period). No amount of arguing would change their minds. In both cases, during the last trimester, based on bone length measurements taken during ultrasounds, the due dates were adjusted by, you guessed it, 2 weeks, to reflect the actual date of conception. But the fact is, they didn't care what I had to say about it, they weren't going to trust my word on it.

Also, while ovulation generally occurs within a certain time frame after a period (which varies from woman to woman), there are quite a few things that can effect it coming later, earlier, or not at all, i.e. medications, diet, stress, illness...

Most women do not even know the signs of when they are ovulating. You can take classes or read about how to tell. But it is not an intuitive process. I was amazed when I learned how to tell, after I had already had a child. I did not know how to read the signs that my body was giving me during my cycle until I was taught.

So, OP, I tell you this not to convince you that your wife did not cheat, but to help you understand that a woman's body does not look at a calendar and decide that it'll have to wait a few more days or not before it can ovulate. It just doesn't work that way.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

seeking manual said:


> Well, I was really looking forward to coming back here to post that this had all been a big misunderstanding. No such luck.
> 
> Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. My wife called afterwards, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure).
> 
> She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right* because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away*".
> 
> I'm sticking to the advice I received here and am keeping my mouth shut, so I said nothing. But, really? "Pretty sure"?
> 
> What a mess.


In her haste to make excuses and cover her tracks it appears she has slipped and told you all you need to know to go forward. 


Tell her you are not "pretty sure" she did NOT fool around. Demand a prenatal paternity test. Tell her that her above response is the most ridiculous thing you ever heard and that you have no intentions of being lied to and raising another man's child. 

When you have this conversation carry a VAR with you. My guess is she will try and back peddle on the above statement saying it misunderstood/misstated/misconstrued. Tell her you are not buying it and stick to your guns. The VAR will be helpful later. Throw in a polygraph too for good measure on what and who her friends were and what they did together.


----------



## InlandTXMM

... and risk wrecking his marriage over what so far is only suspicious timing of a pregnancy?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no odd texts, FB friends, emails, no strange behavior before or after the trip, no recordings of flirty talk with anyone. 

Vigilance, yes. Nuclear option with scant if any evidence? No way.


----------



## tom67

InlandTXMM said:


> ... and risk wrecking his marriage over what so far is only suspicious timing of a pregnancy?
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no odd texts, FB friends, emails, no strange behavior before or after the trip, no recordings of flirty talk with anyone.
> 
> Vigilance, yes. Nuclear option with scant if any evidence? No way.


OP how was your wife acting when she got back.
Was she cold and distant? Was something off?
Just curious.


----------



## InlandTXMM

tom67 said:


> OP how was your wife acting when she got back.
> Was she cold and distant? Was something off?
> Just curious.


All I recall was morning sickness.


----------



## weightlifter

Hard spying time OP. 
Vars keylogs record pulling the works,

I cant go to best buy and walmart for you. Get it done.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

I think the fetal date issue and her odd comment do deserve a serious discussion. Tell her it has raised a red flag for you.

But DO NOT have this conversation until you have VARs, a keylogger, and text monitoring app in place.

She will deny any wrongdoing in all probability, BUT if there is any truth to your suspicions she will be reaching out to friends or family after you confront her to discuss what to do about the predicament she is in.

These convos may provide the evidence you need if indeed something shady has gone down.

I promise you, if something happened on the trip at least one of her friends knows about it and she will touch bases with that person after you voice suspicions, even if only to get their stories straight.


----------



## Will_Kane

seeking manual said:


> Fling thing, exactly. She met up with old (female) college friends while away. I didn't know her at that time, and can only speculate on what kind of behavior they'd bring out...


If it was just a one-night stand or a brief fling, she could have gotten pregnant and there would be no further communications, the other guy wouldn't even know about it.

If you have ever heard about or seen a case like this, and over the years unfortunately I have heard about and seen a few, what usually happens is the woman never tells the truth, has the baby, and hopes like heck it is the husband's child. If so, all is good. If not, ...


----------



## Nucking Futs

Will_Kane said:


> If it was just a one-night stand or a brief fling, she could have gotten pregnant and there would be no further communications, the other guy wouldn't even know about it.
> 
> If you have ever heard about or seen a case like this, and over the years unfortunately I have heard about and seen a few, what usually happens is the woman never tells the truth, has the baby, and hopes like heck it is the husband's child. If so, all is good. If not, ...


I think the whole point of planting vars and keylogging the computer before confronting her about it is to catch her communicating to her friends about her situation. If she cheated on the trip then the friends she was traveling with probably know and she might contact them.


----------



## Will_Kane

Nucking Futs said:


> I think the whole point of planting vars and keylogging the computer before confronting her about it is to catch her communicating to her friends about her situation. If she cheated on the trip then the friends she was traveling with probably know and she might contact them.


Good point.


----------



## 86857

Suspicious, there is cause for concern. 
There may be an explanation which will put it in the 'unusual' category. 
I agree now that the 'pretty sure' comment could have been sarcastic. I hadn't thought of it like that until a poster pointed it out.
To accuse her in the wrong will do untold damage. 
If she betrayed you, I don't think she will confess too readily because it resulted in a pregnancy. Hardly any cheaters confess in normal circumstances. She may if you demand a paternity test now, a car park confession like the poly. I believe such a test can now be be done this early without a risk to the baby. But, if you do this and she is innocent, it will also cause untold damage.
Therefore, if it were me I would become a snoop extraordinaire. 
I don't see any other choice. 
I am very sorry that you have been put in this position.


----------



## tom67

********** said:


> Suspicious, there is cause for concern.
> There may be an explanation which will put it in the 'unusual' category.
> I agree now that the 'pretty sure' comment could have been sarcastic. I hadn't thought of it like that until a poster pointed it out.
> To accuse her in the wrong will do untold damage.
> If she betrayed you, I don't think she will confess too readily because it resulted in a pregnancy. Hardly any cheaters confess in normal circumstances. She may if you demand a paternity test now, a car park confession like the poly. I believe such a test can now be be done this early without a risk to the baby. But, if you do this and she is innocent, it will also cause untold damage.
> Therefore, if it were me I would become a snoop extraordinaire.
> I don't see any other choice.
> I am very sorry that you have been put in this position.


Moon totally agree.
As a man I could not raise another man's child.
Read Whyeme's thread.
She got knocked up within a few weeks of moving in with om.


----------



## aug

If the "pretty sure" was sarcastic, it was very out of place given the situation of just confirming the conception date.

She left a giant gap with that remark which needs a follow-up.


----------



## 86857

aug said:


> If the "pretty sure" was sarcastic, it was very out of place given the situation of just confirming the conception date.
> She left a giant gap with that remark which needs a follow-up.


I agree with you Aug. That thought shouldn't even have entered her head. Like many on here I am trying hard to keep an open mind and look at all the angles which is the benefit of TAM for these situations. In this case it is not easy. 
I keep hoping it's a troll like Rosie to be honest!


----------



## Chaparral

aug said:


> If the "pretty sure" was sarcastic, it was very out of place given the situation of just confirming the conception date.
> 
> She left a giant gap with that remark which needs a follow-up.


It all depends on context. I doubt she's fool enough to imply she isn't sure if she had sex on a vacation. Unless she is a supreme actor. She was just stating the obvious.

I think a woman that got pregnant that waywould be showing some other warning sgns...........unless she did it on purpose.


----------



## aug

MissFroggie said:


> She doesn't seem to be anxious about it, told him immediately, wants to keep the baby, took him with her to the scan etc, made a sarcastic comment about cheating (maybe in her defense even if she felt it was being implied), hasn't been weird or distant or strange in any way...tbh I doubt she has cheated unless she is one amazing actress.
> 
> Rather than questioning whether the baby is was from an affair I think we should ask the OP about how he feels if the baby IS his. You said you do not want more kids and now she is pregnant, assuming the baby is yours and putting all concerns about that out of the window, how do you feel about having this baby? Are you okay?


She knows she's pregnant. The nausea, the morning sickness, the tests, etc. There's no way to hide the pregnancy. She's not into abortion.

Her best play, I would think, is to do what she's doing now. Assume that the father is her husband.

She wont be able to counter the paternity from a DNA test.

In any event, OP should prepare for the worst.


----------



## Chaparral

A good friend of mine had one son and didn't want anymore kids. His wife wanted more but took birth control pills. The now have two more kids.

OTOH, my brother and best friend both had kids though their wives were on birth control pills.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

seeking manual said:


> Well, I was really looking forward to coming back here to post that this had all been a big misunderstanding. No such luck.
> 
> Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. My wife called afterwards, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure).
> 
> She then said (unprompted) "and I know the conception date is right because I'm pretty sure I didn't go messing around while I was away".
> 
> I'm sticking to the advice I received here and am keeping my mouth shut, so I said nothing. But, really? "Pretty sure"?
> 
> What a mess.


'Speak now or be silent forever'

I would say confront her, if she denies tell her you want a DNA test, because I understand you have to divorce her now otherwise it would be legally your child and you are responsible for upbringing and child support.

And of course a Lie detector test, but that need not be mentioned in a first confrontation.


----------



## 86857

MissFroggie said:


> I know someone who didn't want kids but she ended up with 4 while on birth control. It's only effective when taken correctly by someone in perfect health...even then only 99%. One bout of diarrhoea (sorry that's gross - eugh!) can leave you without contraceptive cover for the rest of the month. Ever been sick? Ever taken antibiotics, St John's Wort...also ritonavir (Norvir)...Barbiturates: Amytal Sodium, Butisol Sodium, Luminal, Nembutal Sodium, Phenobarbital, Seconal Sodium...Phenytoin (Epanutin), Lamotrigine (Lamictal) and carbamazepine (Tegretol)...


Hey Ms Froggie. You sound like a doc or nurse.
Well done for keeping an open mind to keep all of us in check for now until OP knows either way.

OP, I'm so hoping your wife's comment was sarcastic as in 'well you hardly think I was playing up on my holiday' and that this thread is a false alarm. The growth rate for babies can vary considerably and it's a bell curve like most things to do with human beings. It's more about if everything is intact physically than the size. My son was a late bloomer, very small until the third trimester and he had my obgyn worried. She even got her professor Head of Dept to check it out. But. . . my son became an Olympic champion and went on to win the race at 9.5lbs at the finish. 

All the best and fingers crossed. 
**********


----------



## See_Listen_Love

InlandTXMM said:


> ... and risk wrecking his marriage _*over what so far is only suspicious timing of a pregnancy?*_
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are no odd texts, FB friends, emails, no strange behavior before or after the trip, no recordings of flirty talk with anyone.
> 
> Vigilance, yes. Nuclear option with scant if any evidence? No way.


'Suspicious timing of a pregnancy' is an interpretation of the facts, and one that is countering the odds of the situation.

'Known facts' PRO One Night Stand:

- She is 2 weeks away on a vacation

- GNO activities probability with old (female(?) college friends is high

- She is a fling-thing

- Ovulation and conception estimate in the middle of those two weeks

- During ovulation women are especially attracted to 'bad boys'.

- 10% of all children would be from another male

- She wants pregnancy

- Husband does not want kids, uses condoms

-* Calculation: Odds of insemination by other male = **99,95%
* * 1 -/- Chance of failing condom = 1 -/- (0,05 / (52 x 2)) = 1 -/- 0.000481 = 99,95%
(assumed chance 5% per year, with assumed 2 times a week sex, actually the 5% is a high estimate.)


Sorry, but this is serious enough to act conform the facts and assume she has had at least a ONS. More than 99% chance.

But maybe she had the vacation (or business trip/family visit) planned to meet up with a male person. A much smaller chance, but since you are here, not so small as you would like


----------



## Graywolf2

The pregnancy will be a terrible experience for you if you are uncertain who the father is. It will also be bad for your wife if you are resentful. If I were in your shoes I would be honest with her that the timing and faithful use of condoms makes you suspicious. You need to know who the father is to order to enjoy the pregnancy and bond with the child as it develops.

Tell her you want prenatal (before your child’s birth) DNA testing. All you need is a blood sample from you and your wife and poses no risk to the baby.
It costs about $2000, but just the threat of it could cause her to come clean.

SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell.


----------



## aug

Given the odd timing of the start of pregnancy, not questioning would also raise a question in her mind. Especially since she said she's "pretty sure".

She's already knows the timing is off. What does she thinks of her husband if he does not question it? Would she thinks he doesn't care if she did do another man?


----------



## larry.gray

See_Listen_Love said:


> I would say confront her, if she denies tell her you want a DNA test, because I understand you have to divorce her now otherwise it would be legally your child and you are responsible for upbringing and child support.


I've posted several times that he should check on his state laws. In the last 5 years, most US states have changed the laws on this. Only 3 still saddle the husband with child support for a kid that isn't his. He should make sure he's not in one of them.


----------



## tom67

larry.gray said:


> I've posted several times that he should check on his state laws. In the last 5 years, most US states have changed the laws on this. Only 3 still saddle the husband with child support for a kid that isn't his. He should make sure he's not in one of them.


This is true Larry is right.

OP you have to plan and assume the worst.
Whether or not you decide to confront you have to plan at least on the financial and legal end.

I think you may as well confront and then see her reaction when you tell her about the DNA test but that is just me.


----------



## tom67

MissFroggie said:


> Hiya Larry, I've just been looking into this as I am only familiar with English and Scottish Law, not US (especially where it varies by state). All I've come across is about 'presumed paternity' and from what I've read it appears that this would not be upheld if a DNA test proved otherwise. What are the three states that do not revoke that presumed paternity after a DNA test has proved otherwise? If you have links to sources on this I would find it very interesting too. Thanks


Yes the UK is bad for dads.

Child Support Law Requires Man To Pay For Another Man's Child

Here also


----------



## larry.gray

tom67 said:


> Yes the UK is bad for dads.
> 
> Child Support Law Requires Man To Pay For Another Man's Child
> 
> Here also


Sounds like the UK wants to encourage murder because I'm sure men would be drive to that if they are forced to support a child in that circumstance.

If it were me I'd be researching countries without extradition for failure to pay child support.


----------



## tom67

Countries are going to be forced to change antiquated laws because of DNA testing or yep bad things will happen.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I know everyone is keying off that little phrase, but come on now, we don't know his wife or her attitude. Heck, he hasn't returned to spell out how that visit started. For all we know he said something or implied she cheated and tilted the entire doctor visit. He reacted crappily to this pregnancy, questioned what happened on the trip and she made a smarta%$'ed retort at an inopportune moment.

I am not saying he shouldn't check, but damaging your marriage with nothing is silly in my book.

99.5%? You will never do my taxes, I'd be in jail.


----------



## Nucking Futs

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I know everyone is keying off that little phrase, but come on now, we don't know his wife or her attitude. Heck, he hasn't returned to spell out how that visit started. *For all we know he said something or implied she cheated and tilted the entire doctor visit. He reacted crappily to this pregnancy, questioned what happened on the trip and she made a smarta%$'ed retort at an inopportune moment.*
> 
> I am not saying he shouldn't check, but damaging your marriage with nothing is silly in my book.
> 
> 99.5%? You will never do my taxes, I'd be in jail.


Actually, if you read the thread again, you'll find that he hasn't said anything about any of this to anyone, just posted it here. He didn't accompany her to the doctors appointment and has not mentioned his suspicions to her. That's one of the reasons people are so quick to jump on her comment.


----------



## MissFroggie

tom67 said:


> Yes the UK is bad for dads.
> 
> Child Support Law Requires Man To Pay For Another Man's Child
> 
> Here also


Wow, just wow!!! That is totally mad! Maybe that is why people from the US seem to shout for a DNA test so quickly - as a woman I'd almost be worried it wasn't _mine_ lol. Jokes aside - that is an outrageous law and yes he definitely should check if he is in one of those 3 states still upholding that. In all honesty, I think ALL men in those 3 states should be aware of that! Please let us know which states it applies to. I'm still pretty shocked!



larry.gray said:


> Sounds like the UK wants to encourage murder because I'm sure men would be drive to that if they are forced to support a child in that circumstance.
> 
> If it were me I'd be researching countries without extradition for failure to pay child support.


How is the UK encouraging murder?? This is American laws, not British. Here in the UK laws about child support and access visits etc are so poorly managed and enforced that women are denying good men their rights and rubbish guys are walking away and dropping women in it without accountability.

I have to admit I am surprised this law is being upheld in any US state, they usually seem to have a much better grasp of real justice than UK law, which appears to be getting less effective or fair rather than better.



tom67 said:


> Countries are going to be forced to change antiquated laws because of DNA testing or yep bad things will happen.


I agree - I think people in those 3 states should be kicking up a stink about this craziness!!


----------



## LongWalk

Hello OP,

Are you still there?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## nuclearnightmare

larry.gray said:


> I've posted several times that he should check on his state laws. In the last 5 years, most US states have changed the laws on this. Only 3 still saddle the husband with child support for a kid that isn't his. He should make sure he's not in one of them.


Larry
What are the three states??
Don't leave us hang in'


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Nucking Futs said:


> Actually, if you read the thread again, you'll find that he hasn't said anything about any of this to anyone, just posted it here. He didn't accompany her to the doctors appointment and has not mentioned his suspicions to her. That's one of the reasons people are so quick to jump on her comment.


I read the entire thread. It was his last post that made me wonder. My post has nothing to do with him voicing his suspicions. He doesn't have to say "aha you cheated" to react crappily to her announcement.

Yes, I hope I am right because I do not wish cheating on anyone.


----------



## Chaparral

Nucking Futs said:


> Actually, if you read the thread again, you'll find that he hasn't said anything about any of this to anyone, just posted it here. He didn't accompany her to the doctors appointment and has not mentioned his suspicions to her. That's one of the reasons people are so quick to jump on her comment.


If he didn't go to the doctors office, and she had banged some ons, is there a reason she would have told him the date the dr gave her. It sounds to me like she thought the doc was being an idiot, sarcastically say well, I think I oughta know when I got laid. Otherwise, she would have freaked and thought he will know I was getting greased while on vaca. Ill make up a different date, he will never know the difference.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Chaparral said:


> If he didn't go to the doctors office, and she had banged some ons, is there a reason she would have told him the date the dr gave her. It sounds to me like she thought the doc was being an idiot, sarcastically say well, I think I oughta know when I got laid. Otherwise, she would have freaked and thought he will know I was getting greased while on vaca. Ill make up a different date, he will never know the difference.


If he did go to the doctors office, would she have needed to call him to tell him about it? Maybe the reason she told him about it is because she didn't bang some ons. Maybe she thought he would be amused by it because she's totally faithful and the thought of cheating on her husband is ridiculous to her. 



seeking manual said:


> Doctor's appointment this morning confirmed the pregnancy, and measured the date of conception right in the middle of the trip. *My wife called afterwards*, remorseful over the fact that the OB is worried about the viability of the pregnancy, given that the fetus is measuring "late" (because, of course, she gave them a "solid" conception date prior to her departure)..


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## MissFroggie

Nucking Futs said:


> Actually, if you read the thread again, you'll find that he hasn't said anything about any of this to anyone, just posted it here. He didn't accompany her to the doctors appointment and has not mentioned his suspicions to her. That's one of the reasons people are so quick to jump on her comment.





phillybeffandswiss said:


> I read the entire thread. It was his last post that made me wonder. My post has nothing to do with him voicing his suspicions. He doesn't have to say "aha you cheated" to react crappily to her announcement.
> 
> Yes, I hope I am right because I do not wish cheating on anyone.


As far as I'm concerned just a 'look' or a tense out-breath could be enough for me to sarcastically say something similar to what she said. It doesn't need to have been a confrontation. Talking to her husband under normal circumstances she is likely aware of his non-vocal cues and how much more so when she is discussing with him their baby, knowing he did not really want to have more? 



Chaparral said:


> If he didn't go to the doctors office, and she had banged some ons, is there a reason she would have told him the date the dr gave her. It sounds to me like she thought the doc was being an idiot, sarcastically say well, I think I oughta know when I got laid. Otherwise, she would have freaked and thought he will know I was getting greased while on vaca. Ill make up a different date, he will never know the difference.


:iagree: Yet another clue she is NOT hiding anything or being evasive. She has had so many ways of covering things up if she had done something wrong, but chosen not to take any of them. Why would she say about the dates when she doesn't need to tell him? 

Also, getting morning sickness so soon after conception is quite rare as the egg requires time to implant and then the hormone levels begin to rise. This rise in hormone production usually doesn't cause morning sickness until about 4 weeks after conception (6 weeks after last period) - the OP said her morning sickness was so severe she would have been unable to hide it. I am not going to say it is impossible to have morning sickness 7 days after conception, but considering the fertilised egg can take longer than that to even implant, I will go as far as to say it is _improbable_.


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## MissFroggie

Nucking Futs said:


> If he did go to the doctors office, would she have needed to call him to tell him about it? Maybe the reason she told him about it is because she didn't bang some ons. Maybe she thought he would be amused by it because she's totally faithful and the thought of cheating on her husband is ridiculous to her.


Chaparral was saying the same thing. It makes no sense to tell him what the dr said if she had something to hide, but she did tell him


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## Nucking Futs

MissFroggie said:


> Chaparral was saying the same thing. It makes no sense to tell him what the dr said if she had something to hide, but she did tell him


Ok, wait a minute. We can't all argue that she's innocent, someone will need to take the other side.

TBH, my instinctual response is that she cheated on the trip, but my brain is looking at my instincts like this: :scratchhead: I suspect what we're going to have here is a husband who snoops, finds nothing, and eventually either lets it go or confronts and f's up a good marriage. 

Assuming we ever hear from the OP again.


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## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> Ok, wait a minute. We can't all argue that she's innocent, someone will need to take the other side.
> 
> TBH, my instinctual response is that she cheated on the trip, but my brain is looking at my instincts like this: :scratchhead: I suspect what we're going to have here is a husband who snoops, finds nothing, and eventually either lets it go or confronts and f's up a good marriage.
> 
> Assuming we ever hear from the OP again.


He doesn't have t say anything if he wants and does the DNA test and she doesn't have to know about.
However he came here for a reason we all know why that "gut" feeling. Tough call on this one. Glad it isn't mine.


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## phillybeffandswiss

See, but it wasn't his "gut" feeling it was math and inductive reasoning.


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## tom67

phillybeffandswiss said:


> See, but it wasn't his "gut" feeling it was math and inductive reasoning.


It really sux either way.

If they have a healthy enough marriage I would think he could calmly ask her.


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## See_Listen_Love

MissFroggie said:


> Genuine question - what are your qualifications to determine this statistic


 Eh… simple math and statistics in several educations? Besides simple logic? There is no advanced statistics in this calculation. Yet is covers the total of possibilities. So the calculation is correct. Based on the available facts. The rational thing to do with this chance is to act as we do in reality, if we act rational that is.


> and how have you factored in other variables other than working from the highly simplified statistics and explanations given to the general public so they have enough information to make decisions?


 _There are no other variables in the calculation_. What you can argue about is whether he or she was uncarefull with the use of condoms. That is the unknown factor, but the chance of getting pregnant is found 5% by me, after some, I admit, quick research. If you massively enlarge this factor, you get not a significant change in the outcome. 


> Another thing I am _almost_ 100% sure of is that if this is the OP's child then confronting her and accusing her of infidelity will seriously damage their relationship and affect the future negatively.


 TAM learns it is 100% sure this situation leads to disaster in the future if not answered to the OP’s satisfaction. Since he knows, and seen the unprobability of it being his child he has to find out more. There is no other option for him.
The rest of the red flags are enough to look for an EA/PA, the pregnancy makes the situation worse.
These other factors would raise chances even higher, but it looks to me the condom problem is already warning enough of how the probabilities are at this moment.


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## See_Listen_Love

MissFroggie said:


> :wtf: You are seriously going to defend your 'mathematical conclusion' that the OP has a 0.05% chance of being the father of his wife's baby??? *FACEPALM* :slap:



This is really funny.

This is not a question of defending...

Need I to defend things like that I 'think' 1+1=2 ?? 

:scratchhead:

It is a calculation, and it is valid.

You can argue about the issues I point out, but not about the calculation itself. Unless I make an error in the formula of course, but that seems not to be your point.


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## See_Listen_Love

S...... is an illness without cure


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## aug

seeking manual said:


> My wife recently returned from a 2-week trip abroad. She announced to me several days ago that she's pregnant. It was a shock, since we're careful about birth control (condoms), and have discussed recently that I don't want any more kids.





seeking manual said:


> A week ago. We're both about 35.


She returned a week ago before Oct 31.




seeking manual said:


> Those tests are good. 2 days after missed period, positive. Confirmatory test 2 days later, also positive.



She missed her period and did a pregnancy test 2 days after her missed period. I know it's usual for women to be off their period occasionally for several days. 

Who does a pregnancy test after a 2 days of missed period? What made her think she was pregnant?


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## vi_bride04

aug said:


> Who does a pregnancy test after a 2 days of missed period? What made her think she was pregnant?


Someone who had unprotected sex during ovulation...


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## Chaparral

Nucking Futs said:


> If he did go to the doctors office, would she have needed to call him to tell him about it? Maybe the reason she told him about it is because she didn't bang some ons. Maybe she thought he would be amused by it because she's totally faithful and the thought of cheating on her husband is ridiculous to her.


Lol, that was the point I was trying to make.


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## tom67

Seeking I hope you are still here reading.

We really hope for the best but you do have a right to be suspicious.
Take care.


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## Graywolf2

The pregnancy will be a terrible experience for you if you are uncertain who the father is. It will also be bad for your wife if you are resentful. If I were in your shoes I would be honest with her that the timing and faithful use of condoms makes you suspicious. You need to know who the father is to order to enjoy the pregnancy and bond with the child as it develops.

Tell her you want prenatal (before your child’s birth) DNA testing. All you need is a blood sample from you and your wife and poses no risk to the baby. It costs about $2000, but just the threat of it could cause her to come clean.

SNP Microarray: Unlike amniocentesis, a non-invasive prenatal paternity test does not require a needle inserted into the mother’s womb. The SNP microarray procedure uses new technology that involves preserving and analyzing the baby’s DNA found naturally in the mother’s bloodstream. The test is accurate, 99.9%, using a tiny quantity of DNA — as little as found in a single cell.


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## ThreeStrikes

No posts from OP for 5 days.


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## 86857

A tr*ll???? 
I sure hope so TBH.


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## weightlifter

VERY useful post Graywolf2. I knew the test existed but did not know the name.


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## seeking manual

8 months later...

Today is the "due date" based on the estimated date of conception which _had to have been _before she left for her trip. No hints of labor. Prior deliveries were all early. Assuming the baby arrives next week, that back-calculates the EDC to when she was out of the country. Again, no smoking gun. All this science is imprecise. But more reason to be suspicious.

Anyone have a favorite discrete paternity testing service?


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## tom67

seeking manual said:


> 8 months later...
> 
> Today is the "due date" based on the estimated date of conception which _had to have been _before she left for her trip. No hints of labor. Prior deliveries were all early. Assuming the baby arrives next week, that back-calculates the EDC to when she was out of the country. Again, no smoking gun. All this science is imprecise. But more reason to be suspicious.
> 
> Anyone have a favorite discrete paternity testing service?


Just look online there are so many.
Or just drive to a local wally world or cvs not expensive at all.
Talk to a lawyer and see if you can hold off getting your name on the birth certificate it may be worth it.


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## GusPolinski

seeking manual said:


> 8 months later...
> 
> Today is the "due date" based on the estimated date of conception which _had to have been _before she left for her trip. No hints of labor. Prior deliveries were all early. Assuming the baby arrives next week, that back-calculates the EDC to when she was out of the country. Again, no smoking gun. All this science is imprecise. But more reason to be suspicious.
> 
> Anyone have a favorite discrete paternity testing service?


Hell, I think that you can buy paternity tests at Wal-mart these days.


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## Hope1964

So what have you done in the last 8 months? Did you do any snooping? Have you got other reasons besides the original one to suspect anything?

I sure hope you find out it's yours.


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## OldWolf57

OP, did you even checked to see if you are on the hook legally if the child is not yours ??


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## happyman64

GusPolinski said:


> Hell, I think that you can buy paternity tests at Wal-mart these days.


And I thought you were kidding. 

Identigene DNA Paternity Test Kit - Walmart.com


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## murphy5

seeking manual said:


> Good questions. We've got positive UPTs x 2, and morning sickness out the wazoo, so I'm pretty sure we've got he diagnosis right. Confirmatory doctor appointment coming up. I'm scheduling my vasectomy as soon as I can get the time off from work.
> 
> The relationship has had its ups and downs, but don't they all? Nothing to make me think things could be THIS bad.
> 
> I like the idea of covert snooping. Anyone know if I could get a paternity test done after delivery w/o her knowledge? They'd only need a sample from me and the kid, right?


I just realized this is an old post. It must be around due date right now!


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## happyman64

murphy5 said:


> I just realized this is an old post. It must be around due date right now!


Read his last post above from earlier this week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## terrence4159

mine was over 10 years ago paid a lady to come to my house and swap us........wish they had the walmart tests then


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## GusPolinski

:scratchhead:


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## weightlifter

the nine month thing can vary and by several weeks. Do the test.

Hoping for you.


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## Philat

GusPolinski said:


> :scratchhead:


I think he meant "swab", Gus.


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## larry.gray

weightlifter said:


> the nine month thing can vary and by several weeks. Do the test.
> 
> Hoping for you.


:iagree: (all of the points)

Back dating from the delivery date is the least accurate method. My kids have ranged from 2 weeks early to 3 weeks late (same woman).

Did they do a very early ultrasound? They do those now if there is any question about the date of conception. Those are VERY accurate. The 'normal' later one isn't very accurate.

Your best bet is doing the test as right after birth. And talk to a lawyer ASAP. Every state has different nuances. You want to know if you should avoid signing the birth certificate when she delivers.


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## Jellybeans

What's sad is the initial post is nothing about her cheating. It's all him assuming could not possibly be pregnant by him, her husband.


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## Racer

seeking manual said:


> 8 months later...
> 
> Today is the "due date" based on the estimated date of conception which _had to have been _before she left for her trip. No hints of labor. Prior deliveries were all early. Assuming the baby arrives next week, that back-calculates the EDC to when she was out of the country. Again, no smoking gun. All this science is imprecise. But more reason to be suspicious.
> 
> Anyone have a favorite discrete paternity testing service?


late to the show, but talk to the hospital when the baby is delivered asking for a paternity test. It's not uncommon. And the benefit of that is you know before you put your name on the birth certificate. If it's not yours, you can keep your name off of it, it becomes someone elses child and there is no child support.


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## naiveonedave

Jelly - I wonder how many affairs are found this way. I know of a few.


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## GusPolinski

Philat said:


> I think he meant "swab", Gus.


Yeah, I figured that out when I re-read it this morning.

DUUUUUH.


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## Philat

GusPolinski said:


> Yeah, I figured that out when I re-read it this morning.
> 
> DUUUUUH.


Took me a few passes too.


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## Q tip

Philat said:


> I think he meant "swab", Gus.


Swap works. Happened to me.


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## badbane

sperm only can last about 5 days or so in a woman. So if you didn't have sex withing about ten days of the EDC then I'd definitely be worried.


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## GusPolinski

badbane said:


> sperm only can last about 5 days or so in a woman. So if you didn't have sex withing about ten days of the EDC then I'd definitely be worried.


I've always heard about 2 days max. Or maybe that's 2 days of viability (i.e. motility)?


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## Almostrecovered

y chromosome sperm (aka male) swims faster but dies quicker around 2 days
x chromosome sperm (aka female) swims slower but but has more endurance and live up to 5 days

generally speaking

I heard you can increase your chances of sex preference by 70% by when you have sex compared to ovulation (closer to ovulation= boy, further from= girl)


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## nuclearnightmare

Jellybeans said:


> What's sad is the initial post is nothing about her cheating. It's all him assuming could not possibly be pregnant by him, her husband.


he obviously doesn't trust her. I thnk he should be upfront with her on that. tell her why; and be upfront with her on ordering a paternity test.


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## Racer

nuclearnightmare said:


> he obviously doesn't trust her. I thnk he should be upfront with her on that. tell her why; and be upfront with her on ordering a paternity test.


Still don't know why folks are going on about ordering some kit type stuff. If I read it right... She's nine months pregnant and about to give birth. The due date hit, and she's not yet in labor. Hence why it seems like she might have gotten knocked up on her vacation.

Since the baby is due any moment. Just have them run it while they run all the other test they do to newborns. Right there at the hospital and it will be incontestable evidence because it doesn't get any more 'burden of proof' than a licensed physician. The added thing is that "father" line on the birth certificate. If it's not his, he need not put his name on that line. That becomes extremely important in case of divorce. If his name is on it, he might assume all liability for child support for the next 18 years. If it isn't his, on day one he isn't acknowledged as the father of that child. That means no child support at all (and no custody either btw).


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## happyman64

Almostrecovered said:


> y chromosome sperm (aka male) swims faster but dies quicker around 2 days
> x chromosome sperm (aka female) swims slower but but has more endurance and live up to 5 days
> 
> generally speaking
> 
> I heard you can increase your chances of sex preference by 70% by when you have sex compared to ovulation (closer to ovulation= boy, further from= girl)


Now I know why I have 3 daughters. Too much sex and very little ovulation.

My wife is smarter than me!


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## Q tip

Almostrecovered said:


> y chromosome sperm (aka male) swims faster but dies quicker around 2 days
> x chromosome sperm (aka female) swims slower but but has more endurance and live up to 5 days
> 
> generally speaking
> 
> I heard you can increase your chances of sex preference by 70% by when you have sex compared to ovulation (closer to ovulation= boy, further from= girl)


Since there are more days she is not ovulating, wouldn't the population then be mostly women? This also assumes pre-ovulation. That days after would tend to result in males, the days before imply female. There are other considerations... Distance (travel) to the egg matters too.


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## Q tip

Racer said:


> Still don't know why folks are going on about ordering some kit type stuff. If I read it right... She's nine months pregnant and about to give birth. The due date hit, and she's not yet in labor. Hence why it seems like she might have gotten knocked up on her vacation.
> 
> Since the baby is due any moment. Just have them run it while they run all the other test they do to newborns. Right there at the hospital and it will be incontestable evidence because it doesn't get any more 'burden of proof' than a licensed physician. The added thing is that "father" line on the birth certificate. If it's not his, he need not put his name on that line. That becomes extremely important in case of divorce. If his name is on it, he might assume all liability for child support for the next 18 years. If it isn't his, on day one he isn't acknowledged as the father of that child. That means no child support at all (and no custody either btw).


^^This^^ ^^This^^ ^^This^^

*The most important comment on the entire thread*. 

*OP. DO THIS*


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## Almostrecovered

Q tip said:


> Since there are more days she is not ovulating, wouldn't the population then be mostly women? This also assumes pre-ovulation. That days after would tend to result in males, the days before imply female. There are other considerations...



Well actually women outnumber men by about a percent but it has more to with longevity

Also note that the window of fertility isn't just on the day of ovulation


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## Q tip

Almostrecovered said:


> Well actually women outnumber men by about a percent but it has more to with longevity
> 
> Also note that the window of fertility isn't just on the day of ovulation


Yep. Also how good that lap dance went...


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## soccermom2three

I'm sorry if I missed this but did your wife tell you the "due date" or did you actually hear it from the OB? 

If I remember correctly most OB's do not like pregnancies to go over two weeks past the due date. They will suggest inducing labor at that point. It will be interesting to see what happens in your wife's case. 

Also, when I had my ultrasounds my little picture printouts had the due date on them. I believe the technicians come up with a due date based on the measurements they take during the ultrasound.


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## ThePheonix

Ok, for the first 5 takers, I'll wager $5.00 the kid is Seeking Manuals. We can settle up via U.S. Mail.


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## Q tip

...crickets...


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## tom67

Q tip said:


> ...crickets...


Never a good thing imo.


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