# How important is the "why"



## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to address the question of "WHY" with everyone. BS, WS, and any others that have an opinion on the topic are free to discuss this. I am sure anyone who has been through infidelity can attest that the "why did this happen" phrase has been mentioned(at least once). Obviously BS ask this question, and I am sure that most if not all WS have asked it also.


I believe this might be a helpful conversation for most people going through infidelity. Personally I think that mentioning the current state of your marriage when answering these questions is important because it might help readers to understand why you have the stance that you do. This could show possible patters or maybe even stages of level of importance based on how far into R you might be.

Questions in no particular order:

When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?

When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?

If you left your SO did you find out the "Why" before you left or not? Did it matter to you?

If you decided to try R, did you already know the "Why" before you made the attempt to move on with the person?

If you are in R do you now feel you know "Why" it occurred?

If you are in R and don't feel you will ever know "why" what does that mean to you?

If you consider your marriage "healed" from the devastation, how significant was answering the "why" to your success? Did it play any role at all?

Do you think knowing "Why" this has happened is important in moving forward after an A?


I am going to answer my own questions above. This is something I am struggling with right now, and I am willing to bet others may be having the same struggles.


Exsquid
3 months from DD
Attempting R

I asked the question why within the first 5 minutes. As I made the decision to try to R with my wife, the "why" question was very important to me. Having an understanding of "why" is critical for me. I do not think I have a full grasp on "why" this has happened even right now. I don't think I can fully R with my wife if I never know "why". I think the "why" is the most important thing for me. I feel that without fixing the issues of "why" there can be no true way to assure it won't happen again. Something else may cause it to happen again that had nothing to do with the first instance but that is just the chance you have to take when attempting to R, IMO. 

This is my take on things. I am only 3 months from DD but I think I have valid points pertaining to my own situation. I encourage everyone to comment here. My intent is not to discuss our stories in detail, just to get an understanding of the importance of the "why". 

Thank you for reading and I look forward to your thoughts.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

*3 months since Dday
In reconciliation
Married 13 yrs*

When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?

*It was the second most important thing for me to know. The first being how far did it go.*

When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?

*Why did not play into my decision. Only our kids and our history did. This is his first offense. And I honestly laid the decision to stay or go at his laptop with my ring.*

If you decided to try R, did you already know the "Why" before you made the attempt to move on with the person?

*He made the decision, then we talked some more. If he had made the decision to leave, then there was no more to talk about.*

If you are in R do you now feel you know "Why" it occurred?

*I know most of it, but I have a hard time getting more information about why. He is depressed since dday. He shuts down when the affair is brought up. Even though he tries not to.*

If you are in R and don't feel you will ever know "why" what does that mean to you?

*It means I cannot correct my part of the marriage that was broken in order to ensure that it does not happen again.*

If you consider your marriage "healed" from the devastation, how significant was answering the "why" to your success? 

*We are not completely healed yet. See the above answer.*

Did it play any role at all?

*I think it plays a huge roll. It allows both parties to see what went wrong and how it can be avoided in the future.*

Do you think knowing "Why" this has happened is important in moving forward after an A?

*Yes*


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

The why is very important to me. It helps me to understand what I could have done differently in terms of my own behavior but also in recognising the early warning signals the next time that something is not right.

*When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?* Very important.

*When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?
* Very important. I wanted to know that my fiance was not with me just because his EA had a bf and therefore not much time for him.

*If you left your SO did you find out the "Why" before you left or not? Did it matter to you?* N/a

*If you decided to try R, did you already know the "Why" before you made the attempt to move on with the person?* No. Still trying to piece it together. It's good to ask your partner why to see what they say. But still, I believe that you're not going to get a completely honest answer. Not to much, they may not realise why themselves.



*If you consider your marriage "healed" from the devastation, how significant was answering the "why" to your success? Did it play any role at all?* I'm hoping that getting my fiancé to talk about it, to give the situation air has helped him to see the slippery slope that he put himself on. For example, he finally admitted that his EA started acting more aggressively around him which would have made continuing to frame the relationship as just a friend untenable. Therefore, he had made a decision early on that he would never introduce us. I pointed out to him then that he was trying to pursue 2 relationships independent of one another. considering the fact that he wanted exclusivity from me, then it wasn't fair to me.

*Do you think knowing "Why" this has happened is important in moving forward after an A?* I think so.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

The "why" in my marriage means everything. I could not R without making sense of it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Exsquid said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I wanted to address the question of "WHY" with everyone. BS, WS, and any others that have an opinion on the topic are free to discuss this. I am sure anyone who has been through infidelity can attest that the "why did this happen" phrase has been mentioned(at least once). Obviously BS ask this question, and I am sure that most if not all WS have asked it also.
> 
> ...


I think "why" is the first question all BS's want an answer too. A counselor told me this, he even sort of tsked when I asked the question, something that annoyed me. 

He later explained that very often the cheater is not in touch with why they cheated. 

I don't buy that. I think getting an answer to why, one that doesn't change with the wind, like my STBEH's did, is important to ensuring that the cheater won't cheat again. 

How can a Betrayed spouse fix anything if they don't know what if anything is broken. 

The answer to "why" is very important IMO, and the marriages that truly reconcile and heal are the ones in which the cheater is brave enough to get to the root of "why".


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

A few points about when a BS asks their WS, "Why?"



I think at the early stages of post Dday for a lot of folks (not everyone of course), that "why?" often is asked in place of the BS's initial gut feeling or question- "What is wrong with me?" or "What did I do to cause this?" or "Why aren't I enough to make you happy?" Being betrayed is the ultimate form of rejection and the biggest confidence killer to one's ego. Unfortunately this reaction, while natural, fits quite nicely with the WS's desire to blameshift due to the fact when you are conducting an affair you will often change or exaggerate or even vilify the perception of your BS to justify your actions. 

It's truly the other way around and often the real "why?" either gets rugswept or isn't examined fully until months later if there is reconciliation. 

The short answer is that the WS acted selfishly and thought they wouldn't get caught. They thought they could have the best of everything and took what seemed like the easier road to fulfill their wants. 

You can look to mitigating factors and all sorts of exterior conditions from feeling neglected to being sexually bored to feeling trapped to substance abuse or whatever it is that exists at the time the affair started. The truth is that those conditions could have been worked through in a different and more positive manner or at the very least if unfixable or one isn't willing to work on these issues a honorable divorce could have been done. The choice to be unfaithful and lie and hide is a poor choice in every circumstance.

Now exploring these mitigating factors is worthwhile, working on a marriage and looking to improve is always a good thing when both parties are doing as such. It is not affair proofing your marriage nor is it a guarantee of success. And it is most certainly NOT THE ANSWER to "why?"

I could name a half dozen things that made the opportunity to cheat seem like an attractive option to my wife. But ultimately the poor choice was hers and it wasn't created by me. It took me a while to really accept that and once I could get there the "why?" became simple and easier to forgive. I view the marriage as a whole instead of a moment or specific point in time. If there's anything that I stress as being most important, it is the present and how she behaves now and treats me now and how she honors and loves me now. The past isn't forgotten, it is part of me and my continuing education of life and it affects my choices and actions in an almost subconscious way. I learn from it and live my life and conduct my marriage as everyone else does, minute by minute and day by day and year by year.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> A few points about when a BS asks their WS, "Why?"
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well said! Thank you.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I sometimes think they don't know "why". They have made up why in their head to justify what they have done, but it's not the real why.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

The "why" is always that the spouse has sufficiently lowered interest in the other spouse and/or not getting their perceived needs met. When a woman cheats, she has lost the emotional connection with her husband. Hence, they are no longer "in love". Any reconnection, due to reconciliation, will most often weaker; hence the reason men feel they will never look at their wives the same because the man senses this loss.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> I sometimes think they don't know "why". They have made up why in their head to justify what they have done, but it's not the real why.


Good point, IMO. 

I keep getting different answers to the why, and sometimes the STBEH even forgets one of the reasons he gave prior and denies saying it. 

IMO, there is a real reason, but they won't or can't face it. 

Maybe it's as simple as being selfish, self absorbed, wanting instant gratification, or just feeling entitled.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> I sometimes think they don't know "why". They have made up why in their head to justify what they have done, but it's not the real why.



Correct. This is a good point except I would argue that they are capable of coming to the "Real reason". They have to separate their own lies from reality. This may not be possible in every instance but I would argue that with time, counseling, and self reflection the real reason should be attainable. Is that to say they will ever tell their SO what they have concluded? Maybe. Maybe not. But the truth is there somewhere.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Meh.

Why only seems important if a) you are reconciling, or b) you want an 'end of service' review so you can improve yourself for Life 2.0.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Exsquid said:


> Correct. This is a good point except I would argue that they are capable of coming to the "Real reason". They have to separate their own lies from reality. This may not be possible in every instance but I would argue that with time, counseling, and self reflection the real reason should be attainable. Is that to say they will ever tell their SO what they have concluded? Maybe. Maybe not. But the truth is there somewhere.


She told me the real "why" ( after the standard "whys" we get)
She said she was selfish and weak and didn't deserve another chance, but was begging for it anyway.


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> She told me the real "why" ( after the standard "whys" we get)
> She said she was selfish and weak and didn't deserve another chance, but was begging for it anyway.


As hard as it is to hear this. If I was confident(my gut was calm)this was the reason, t's all I would need to make my decision. This maybe has more to do with the BS feeling they can trust that what they are hearing(from the person the distrust the most) than any real reason. Just a thought.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Exsquid said:


> As hard as it is to hear this. If I was confident(my gut was calm)this was the reason, t's all I would need to make my decision. This maybe has more to do with the BS feeling they can trust that what they are hearing, from the person the distrust the most, then any real reason. Just a thought.


She was at the breaking point when this happened. I was on my way out . Mind you , she is a very strong willed woman . Never thought I would see the day when she would beg me for anything. As much hell as she put me through I gave quite a bit back. 
For 3 mos she was not called by her given name, I was very verbally abusive during that time. Spewing venom and hate at her and she took it all, ate every last bite.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

> When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?


Why was the first question I asked her. It was also the first questioned she didn't have an answer for. Knowing why was critical for me to move in any direction. In the end she would just blame me for her "whys"



> When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?


I needed to know why...period. I stayed for over a year hoping she would do the deep searching within herself to figure out why. I guess it was just easier to blame me...so I filed.



> If you left your SO did you find out the "Why" before you left or not? Did it matter to you?


I have read so many books, articles and forums like this one in order to discover them for myself. The "whys" are complex. If she could not tell me...I could not stay. That meant she didn't know for herself.



> If you decided to try R, did you already know the "Why" before you made the attempt to move on with the person?


I did attempt to R...she did not....no effort or openness. I think I already knew her "whys". Selfishness, entitlement, boredom, laziness, weak boundries, FOO issues, MLC, unrealistic expectations of marriage...and on and on. I just wanted to hear her tell me in her words. She would never admit her weaknesses. I guess you can add narcissism to her list.



> If you are in R do you now feel you know "Why" it occurred?


I think I know now...but no longer in R...to late.



> If you are in R and don't feel you will ever know "why" what does that mean to you?


Without her telling me why...I could not stay. If she didn't know why, that meant to me it would happen again. She would have learned nothing for all of my pain. 



> If you consider your marriage "healed" from the devastation, how significant was answering the "why" to your success? Did it play any role at all?


There can be NO healing without knowing Why. The why is everything. You learn from the "whys". Knowing why gives you a road map on how to R. If you are going on a long journey, one that you have never been on before, and your life depended on it, it would serve you well to have a map.



> Do you think knowing "Why" this has happened is important in moving forward after an A?


Same answer. 

To me...it is everything. Both of you need to know why for different reasons. She in order to fix herself and you in order to understand.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

The why is of supreme importance for a time. As a bs you're trying to regain a sense of reality, trying to get your feet back on some solid ground so to speak. 

In the end the only why that holds water is because the ws was ok with it. They felt justified, entitled, deserving, weak, strong, whatever. These are not good reasons of course. There is no good reason. There is no good why. There might be an understandable why, but never a good one. 

Thus in the end, the why doesn't matter, you just reach a point where you decide to accept it, and hopefully let it go, and move forward with your life (alone or apart, makes no difference).


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I will agree though, the why's may help indicate the problem areas you will both need to work on, but at the end of the day, the why by itself doesn't really matter IMHO.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

SadandAngry said:


> I will agree though, the why's may help indicate the problem areas you will both need to work on, but at the end of the day, the why by itself doesn't really matter IMHO.


I think it comes down to a matter of truth. If you can get that truth then there is a foundation to build on. That one little piece of truth. When I asked her what she thought would happen when I found out she said " I didn't think about that, I was hoping you never would". It hurt, but it was the truth. That's all I wanted after all the lies.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

I think the why's help illuminate how both parties created the conditions that existed, that a third party was able to come into. It doesn't answer why the es actually makes the choices that put them over the line, that embody the betrayal, that carry it on. At the bottom of it all, the affair and the lead up just seemed like an ok way to cope to the ws. It was ok to step onto the slope, even if they knew it was wrong, or dangerous.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Exsquid said:


> When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?


Immediately following discovery, it was more important for me to get an admission that the A actually happened and that I was not crazy or just being insecure or hormonal. He’d been gas-lighting, deflecting, projecting etc. me for months and months before I got proof of his A, so my main focus was getting him to admit what he did.



Exsquid said:


> When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?


I didn’t reach this step because although he did admit it, he couldn’t take responsibility or even show remorse for it because he played the victim and blamed me. He disrespected me quite a bit after being confronted and there is no way I could even consider an R at that point. My WS, still wanted to live at home and eat cake without taking accountability or any remorse so I kicked him out.



Exsquid said:


> If you left your SO did you find out the "Why" before you left or not? Did it matter to you?


I didn’t find out the why but I do think I’ve been figuring it and quite a bit of other things out on my own. I did get to hear how it was all my fault so I do know that he used his ability to rewrite history and delude himself into what an awful, mean spouse I’d been to him (making himself into the victim and me the villain) justified it for him. I skipped the step where you blame yourself or feel inadequate. I know I’m not perfect but I know I’ve been a damn good spouse – especially in the last two years and I have given and given only to have this happen. I know it’s not my fault and I’m not the ogre he tried to make me out to be. 



Exsquid said:


> Do you think knowing "Why" this has happened is important in moving forward after an A?


Not in an R, and definitely not planning to R at this point and time. If I ever did, I think it would be more important to me to know without any uncertainty that he knew the real reasons and understood the magnitude of error in his thinking that convinced him that his betrayal was somehow justified. I don’t think he’s capable of knowing this or acknowledging just how flawed his thinking was/is right now and thus, is not capable of taking responsibility. Without that, his ability to feel remorse never mind for us to even have the potential to try for for an R is just not possible.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> She told me the real "why" ( after the standard "whys" we get)
> She said she was selfish and weak and didn't deserve another chance, but was begging for it anyway.


Ditto. Almost verbatim. ....eventually after giving the standard why which is RARELY the real reason. I think it usually takes a while for the 'real' reason to come out. AND I agree sometimes its as plain and simple as being selfish and egotistical. Sometimes its as complicated as childhood abuse or personality disorders. But there is always a 'reason'.....not to be confused with an excuse.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> I think it comes down to a matter of truth. If you can get that truth then there is a foundation to build on. That one little piece of truth. When I asked her what she thought would happen when I found out she said " I didn't think about that, I was hoping you never would". It hurt, but it was the truth. That's all I wanted after all the lies.


My STBEH gave me this line as one of his "why"? answers. 

It really upset me more because I find it difficult to believe that he didn't at least once consider the possibility of getting caught. I found that answer when it was given to me to be insulting. 

Hoping not to get caught is typical but that implies they knew they might get caught. 

I think they are in denial. They thought thought they might get caught, but either didn't care, or wanted to hurt the spouse or thought the spouse would simply forgive them. 

Any or all of those reasons suggests that there may be a high likelihood of another affair attempt only one that is hidden better.

But reading your other posts, I think you handled you wife's affaire, the right way. Hard 180, not pulling punches etc. At that point it was your decision to stay or go.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

The reason is unimportant. Because at that point "We're" over.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> My STBEH gave me this line as one of his "why"? answers.
> 
> It really upset me more because I find it difficult to believe that he didn't at least once consider the possibility of getting caught. I found that answer when it was given to me to be insulting.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't call it the right way. My response was to become a drunk child who had a case of "I don't give a f*ck anymore". Then to hurt her I looked for someone else and made known to her I was. No....not the right way.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I think our break up was the first time my ex was ever able to organize anything in her life. She handed me the divorce papers along with a restraining order forcing me to leave "our" home, then called the cops accusing me of hitting her. Two days later, I got out of jail and contacted an attorney that I'm pretty sure she was seeing on the sly and he helped her finish me off. I moved into my fifteen year old car the following week.
She told me the "why" when she handed me the papers and since it was over something I could never change this was the last contact I ever had with her face to face for two years when she tried to get me to take her back. This has happened two more times since through intermediaries and each time she get's the same message.
She may be dead, but if she is, it never made the papers where she was last known to be living.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

canttrustu said:


> But there is always a 'reason'.....not to be confused with an excuse.


Good observation Canttrustu. This is an important distinction. 

*The "why" is the reason...not an excuse.*


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

To me, the WHY is the most important point. As much as we all want to know the "details", we are all adults who know what sex is. We kinda already know the details.... they had sex.

But the WHY is the crux of the issue for me, especially if considering R, because how would you ever be able to trust the WS if they can't say WHY they did it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> I wouldn't call it the right way. My response was to become a drunk child who had a case of "I don't give a f*ck anymore". Then to hurt her I looked for someone else and made known to her I was. No....not the right way.


Well don't beat yourself up for acting out in such a way. You at least realize it was wrong. 

Your response was somewhat predictable given the circumstance.

I do think, though, that there is no better way to wake up a straying spouse to reality than to have a case of "I don't give a" fast flying fugg any more.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

hookares said:


> this was the last contact I ever had with her face to face for two years when she tried to get me to take her back.


It's amazing, the two year mark seems to be when a lot of cheating spouses who left to be with the affair partner, all of a sudden wake up and realize things were better with the first spouse. 

By then, it almost always too late. The Betrayed spouse if in their right mind, will never take them back after a two year hiatus with the fantasy affair partner.

I think it takes two years for the sex to become routine in almost all relationships. So sad.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Speaking as the somewhat lone Disloyal voice, may I share my thoughts on this one? I can honestly say that I think the "why" is vitally important, because if you are not self-aware enough to figure out why you would do the exact opposite of who you are and what you believe, then you can not address and fix the issues. However, I can also say that "in the moment" as it's occurring, it was not as if I thought "I am doing this because..." There was something inside driving me, not like I was "out of control" but more like "there is an inner reason"....yet I didn't really understand until much later when I had some time and put some things together. 

Also I completely agree with what was said that in the beginning, as a Loyal Spouse, the "why" that you are asking about is more like "Did I do something? What did I do or not do?" and the reason for that sort of a question is very similar to a rape victim thinking she was raped because she wore makeup and a short skirt. It really was not because of that at all, and yet that is her way of looking for some way to protect herself: if I never wear makeup or tight clothing again, I'll never be raped again. See what I mean? In a very similar way, I think a Loyal Spouse wants an answer such as "It was the cigarette smoking" so they can quit smoking and get life back to "the way it used to be." Of course you and I know that there is no answer like that, and even if there was ONE thing that could be pointed out--maybe the straw that broke the camel's back--that it wouldn't really bring back life "the way it used to be." 

However, after R is started and after some trust is rebuilt and some love is kindled and after the actions that extinguish love are stopping and after a bit of marriage counseling or wise council from an older married couple you trust...after a little bit of a toe-hold ledge has been placed under the cliff-dive that was occurring...then I think it is not only reasonable, but NECESSARY for a Disloyal Spouse to really look inward and deeply inspect themselves for what happened and yep...WHY. 

To me that secondary why is not so much an excuse as it is looking at yourself, your motivations, where you went wrong, where you could have/should have protected yourself etc. to look for a reason and understand what sort of things might be the weak ***** in your armor. Frankly we all know there is no excuse--none. Period. But if you can look at your own inner workings, your faulty assumptions, your psychological reasoning and pinpoint the problem, I think that is vital to actually recovering. After all, you can't recover if you can not say "Here's what the issue WAS!" 

Finally, as an example, I've shared this here on TAM but of course there really is much more to it. Prior to my affair, Dear Hubby and I found out I was pregnant and we were THRILLED. We have 7 already but we also love kids so it was very exciting!! Sadly, at about 12 weeks we had a miscarriage. I am the kind of person who turns TO someone I trust in sorrow, and Dear Hubby is the kind who goes internal and "deals with it" then comes out when he's reached a conclusion. I did not realize that was what he was doing so I felt like he was withdrawing just when I needed his comfort. Not too long after that (due to losing the baby) we had medical tests etc. and found out that actually the little swimmers were too few to actually have a chance to have other children, and also the little swimmers...well something was wrong with them anyways. I'm not doctor--they just were not right, let's say that! Anyways, so that was like blow #2 because it meant our "child-bearing" years were over. Now that doesn't have to be a event that leads to an affair, but again rather than turning toward each other, he went even further "in" and I felt even more alone. 

SOOOOO ... I thought to myself if he's withdrawing I'll just go ahead and do my own thing. I joined a game about writing constitutions and running a country, and I made a forum for my country and people loved it...and then I made like a little "law firm" for writing other constitutions and legal documents for other people's countries and for prosecuting people for "treason".  Okay I realize it's silly but I liked it! At first I tried to include Dear Hubby but he didn't seem interested AT ALL and eventually I gave up on that. And without looking at all what I didn't realize is that I was getting positive reinforcement from the people on this game--saying I was GREAT at the legal stuff and really had a WONDERFUL country etc.  I was enjoying it and then what happened? A male person noticed me and thought I was stunning...or at least that's what he said. So I was refused at home and someone else saw me and thought WOW!! And that was all it took. 

After the affair was ended, and like I said we got our feet back on the ground and weren't entirely doing "work on our relationship" to reconcile, and once we had a little marriage counseling under our belt, that's when I had the skills and tools to look at myself and figure out what happened. I was mourning over the miscarriage and never got over that. Then finding out we would never have kids, I felt like an undesirable, old prune. I didn't want to be old--I didn't want sex to end because I still liked it and wanted some! I thought not having kids and menopause and all that meant "getting old" and the end of a sex life. I turned to others to have needs of positive affirmation met. I opened myself up to temptation in order to have that need met. I avoided talking about all this with Dear Hubby because I was afraid of confrontation. In many ways it had tinges of classic "mid-life crisis" if you wanted to use that label. 

So I had to know "WHY" in order to fix things. I had to address my pre-conceived ideas. I had to face my fears. I had to learn where I was vulnerable so I could place protections. 

Now..on to the questions:



> *When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?*
> Well since I was the Disloyal, it was not unimportant but the "why" at the beginning was not the "why" that I eventually came to understand.
> 
> *When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?*
> ...


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## Exsquid (Jul 31, 2012)

Thank you Affaircare. Very insightful for me, and I am sure others can take a lot from this too! I'm not sure why, but I am fascinated to hear from WS. Maybe it goes to my trying to understand things....dunno. Thanks again!


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## Tover26 (Oct 29, 2011)

Why get married? Why did you propose? Why did you invest in a monogamous relationship? 

"Why" is the only thing that actually matters. The answer to it allows you to restructure the family dynamic so that maybe your wayward avoids a future affair. If you end up divorced, it's the same principle but you carry this knowledge of Why into your next relationship. Without understanding Why, there is no basis for reconciliation with your wayward... and if you end the relationship as a betrayed and never figure out Why, you lose an important learning opportunity to at least mitigate that Why in your future relationships.

"How far"... I got over that pretty quickly because the of trickle truth... I just accepted that it was as a bad as I could possibly imagine and went from there.


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## lovemylife26 (Mar 21, 2012)

6 months DDay
In R
Married 10 years

I needed to know WHY. I could not move on until I knew everything.
WHY means everything more then no one knows.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I asked my wife "why?" 

She could not answer. She did not know "Why."

The only thing she did tell me was it wasn't my fault. I asked her if I had caused her affair. She very firmly said it wasn't.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Most times the right question is why NOW?
To be honest there was a point I didn't give a damm abut "why", she got flatered, she enjoyedit, believed could handle it, got out of hand. She was selfish, acted entitled, toke many things for granted.
What really matter to me is she get the "why", the "how", that she learns to avoid it from now on.
I always believed was me who was at risk of cheating on her so I forced myself to build boundaries like 2m walls. Go figure.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I just feel that if neither of you don't understand and figure out the "why", how can you ensure it won't happen again?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> I sometimes think they don't know "why". They have made up why in their head to justify what they have done, but it's not the real why.


:iagree:

That's why I question the whole reconciliation thing in some of those severe cases.
Sometimes I wonder if some or a lot of the confessions / remorse offered by the WS are not based on personal survival.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I asked my wife "why?"
> 
> She could not answer. She did not know "Why."
> 
> The only thing she did tell me was it wasn't my fault. I asked her if I had caused her affair. She very firmly said it wasn't.


Of course it wasn't, you didn't even get a choice in the matter!


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

Aha! Yes, I mentioned before that the why is supreme in the beginning, but then in the end it doesn't really matter at all. This is because once you have the why(s) worked out, and you've mapped out the weaknesses in you both, and your relationship, well then the question becomes how? How could you do this to me? I didn't deserve this! What kind of a person are you? And you get lost in that for a while. The why doesn't matter anymore. Eventually you'll have to decide, good person who did something bad? Or just plain old bad person, period. I think that might be where you make or break your r. For me I realized that we weren't unique, we were repeating a history shared by so many others, that we are both just human, and we all make mistakes. And the anger evaporated, the resentment lifted. It still hurt like hell, but I cried and she held me, and it was ok, we were good.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

I don't think the why is very important. I used to think it was -- and then I realized that was a trap. All it did was keep me focused on the cheater and not on myself -- what *I* valued, what was or was not a deal breaker to me, what sort of relationship *I* wanted. 

The "why" is very simple. Because they could. 

I call the trying to figure out the Why as Untangling the Skein of F*ckupedness http://chumplady.com/2012/06/untangling-the-skein-of-f*ckupedness/ (to read you have to put the vowel back in the eff word). 

BS try and try to untangle the skein -- maybe it's FOO issues, maybe it's sex addiction, or whatever. To me, it boils down to -- they did it because they wanted to. They valued getting ego kibbles over your welfare. They knew the risks and that you would be devastated (that's why they HIDE it) and they didn't care. Not enough. 

That is tremendously painful for BSs to learn. Like it's some invalidation of them, which it totally feels like. But it wasnt' about the BS at all.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

chumplady said:


> I don't think the why is very important. I used to think it was -- and then I realized that was a trap. All it did was keep me focused on the cheater and not on myself -- what *I* valued, what was or was not a deal breaker to me, what sort of relationship *I* wanted.
> 
> The "why" is very simple. Because they could.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, that the "why" is not that important to the BS, but it is important to the BS that WS knows the "why's" - because if she doesn't, the likelyhood of repetition is much higher. You need to learn from mistakes and actions in order to avoid them in the future. Unless you just move on of course.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I just feel that if neither of you don't understand and figure out the "why", how can you ensure it won't happen again?


Well, we can't. And with my wife's decisions sometimes clouded by her Asperger's, maybe something similar could happen again.

And if it does, well... life goes on. But I doubt she could live on her own, successfully, so I feel stuck. And I love her.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Answering/getting answered the 'real why' is a very complex process. It touches what is (perception of) reality, what are thoughts, what are feelings, what is counscious/uncounscious, what are memories...

It's not to needless complicate things that I mention this, I'm afraid all these items play a role. I see that both WS en BS often search and formulate rationalisations of the 'why' that suit their needs at that moment. 

Difficult...


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I wanted to say...

I fixated on the "why" for ages. I was convinced like Affaircare said, that if I could establish what *I* had done/not done, *I* could make it better and it wouldn't happen again.

The trouble with this thinking is it kind of absolves the WS from responsibility for their actions. It implies that the WS acted completely exclusively because of the BS's actions or behaviour.

My husband told me eventually that it was because of him and NOT me. I genuinely believe he didn't comprehend or understand the dynamics of what happened first. When I was able to understand (with the help of lots on here) that it was because he simply had little thought for or comprehension of relationship boundaries, I was able to convey this info to him. It took HIM a while to understand the intricacies of his "why."

For me there came a point where I had to move forward. I did need to know the "why", but then I had to turn round and look forwards and because we were in R, trust that HE understood why and trust the steps he was taking to avoid it happening again.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> but it is important to the BS that WS knows the "why's" - because if she doesn't, the likelyhood of repetition is much higher.


Well, I agree that I'm more inclined to believe a WS that says "I cheated because I was selfish and greedy. I didn't care if I hurt you" -- that OWNS it. 

Of course, the thing is that a lot of them LIKE being selfish and greedy. It felt GOOD.

I recommend reading Dr. George Simon a lot (Dr. George K Simon, Author, In Sheep) -- he has this expression, "It's not that they don't SEE, it is that they DISAGREE."

We think "character disturbed" (his term) people need INSIGHT, when in fact, he argues, they already SEE. They just disagree. They don't want to. It's a matter of the heart. And the consequences have to be great enough to them to want to change.

BSs tend to think in terms of empathy -- if they had insight, they would see how their behavior affects me!

NO. They KNOW how their behavior affected you. It wasn't ENOUGH.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

chumplady said:


> NO. They KNOW how their behavior affected you. It wasn't ENOUGH.


I think one of the factors that helped me is that my WS now knows with out a doubt that there will not be a third chance, it will affect her, mostly negatively, as well as the rest of us, and that an OM is not worth it.


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

Let me give you a short story about some close friends of mine.

A husband and wife, both educated (MBA and PhD) and both successful in their careers seemed like the perfect couple, but only on the surface. The husband would confide in me often over the years that he was tired of being rejected in bed. He didn’t resolve the issue and ultimately had his first affair in 20 years with a young, eager woman who completely put his head in the fog.

On D day the wife came to me crying and a total wreck. I pointed out that her husband had repeatedly remarked about his lack of sex, not only privately, but openly, in offhand remarks in front of her on several occasions. I asked her why she ignored these obvious red flags and didn’t directly address the issue with him all these years? She told me she resented his sexual advances because he would always talk down to her in front of other people and embarrass her. She claims that her lack of interest in sex was because she didn’t feel sexual with a man who always put her down.

So, now I’m thinking, he sought out sex elsewhere because he couldn’t get it at home and he didn’t get it at home because he talked to his wife like she’s a moron… so, why did he always do this, why did he talk down to her?

After several discussions with both sides (never with them both together) it seems (without his admission to this, but it was evident to me) that he felt insecure about her level of education, which caused him to perceive any discussion between them as a battle to prove he’s as smart as her and she isn’t a know-it-all, and that she must think he’s stupid, which caused him to talk down to her.

With the above information, it would be easy for his wife to conclude…

*My husband cheated because he needed more sex.
Or
My husband cheated because I refused him one too many times.*

But that would be incorrect.

I believe (my opinion) that the infidelity was rooted in mutual disdain.

_Disdain: 1: lack of respect accompanied by a feeling of intense dislike; 2: look down on with disdain; 3: reject with contempt; 4: a communication that indicates lack of respect by patronizing the recipient.​_
That is how deep a couple needs to go to find the WHY. The surface “why’s” are easy to spot, but a person needs to drill down deep to the core of the problem to firmly set the foundation of restructuring the union.

Do I think the above couple can succeed? No, but not because it’s impossible. This couple won't come together and truly address the real issue because they’ve both found an easier solution; she gives him sex on a regular basis now (unsustainable), and he’s went deeper underground (also unsustainable). To them, the “why’s” ended at sex. That was the easy “fix”, but it is also naive.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Let me give you a short story about some close friends of mine.
> 
> A husband and wife, both educated (MBA and PhD) and both successful in their careers seemed like the perfect couple, but only on the surface. The husband would confide in me often over the years that he was tired of being rejected in bed. He didn’t resolve the issue and ultimately had his first affair in 20 years with a young, eager woman who completely put his head in the fog.
> 
> ...


I like your post because you try to take it one step deeper to find the cause. I think distain could be a large part of the explanation, but not _mutual_ distain.

I do, however, think you confuse cause and effect a bit. The blue bolded part is IMO "wrong". _"He sought out sex elsewhere because he couldn’t get it at home"_ - you don't just go out and cheat because the frequency is low at home. There is not a one-to-one relation between the two. You might as well say "frequency is low, therefore we must work out our bedroom problems, we need to up it a bit or discuss the possibility of extramarrital sex", instead of choosing cheating as a solution.

IMO the analysis stops right there. Since your friend doesn't make "the right choice" here, it says something about distain or disrespect on his side.

I don't say that the way they talk to each other and perceive each other is healthy to their marriage, but it could hardly be the direct cause for infidelity.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> Let me give you a short story about some close friends of mine.
> 
> A husband and wife, both educated (MBA and PhD) and both successful in their careers seemed like the perfect couple, but only on the surface. The husband would confide in me often over the years that he was tired of being rejected in bed. He didn’t resolve the issue and ultimately had his first affair in 20 years with a young, eager woman who completely put his head in the fog.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of men are threatened by an intelligent women. 

Still, IMO, that is the husband's problem. He could still seek counseling since he seemed aware of the reasons and admitted talking down to her. 

It has been said. If there is a lack of sex in a marriage usually the person who does not want sex has a good reason. 

I.e. perhaps the man is a wham bammer, or clumsy or ejaculates prematurely every single time, or the one seeking sex turns off the spouse by being disdainful as you mentioned. 

Still, cheating is not the answer and IMO, the problem still sits squarely with the cheater for choosing to handle the problems with an affair and also for lying about the lack of sex being the reason. 

He was likely talking down to her knowing it would push her away. He did that purposefully and methodically to have an affair with justification. 

IMO, the head case in your story is the Cheater.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

regarding Ton55's story, it seems to follow conventional wisdom.

The husband feels inferior in some way to the wife. He behaves in ways that makes it difficult for the wife to express love, so he feels entitled to find what he needs outside of the marriage.

In this case 2 things
1) situations with women in which he can feel superior
2) regular sex


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

I have come to the belief that there is not an simple, honest and correct answer to the question of why........I had a very inappropriate friendship rapidly heading to a nasty ea, that caused so much stress to everyone around us that I walked away from my friend a year ago.

Still trying hard to figure out why.....but no good answer or set of answers yet. Of course I was ultimately being selfish, and all of the others things expressed here......but those are not really the answers to "why".......that is a culmination of so much

1. my past relationships; wife, past girlfriends, parents, friends
2. my biological makeup.....in my case adhd, treated with a drug that screws up how the mind handles emotional stuff-yea the stuff that never makes it to the side of the box as a possible side effect.....and throw in some PTSD from an overly violent parent
3. my friend's situation and past relationships....just horrible
4. the environment....the situation that allowed us to be friends and spend time together, and the financial means for me to keep her from being tossed onto the street from her home.

Not excuses, but just me trying to find a way to say that sometimes multiple things just line up so perfectly for an ea/pa to take off. Maybe it is just more important to focus on other significant issues, especially if R is being pursued. I am obviously still struggling, but truly believe that the "why" question is very complicated. Maybe that is the reason getting the "why" question answered seems to so often be the sticking point for the BS.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

oneMOreguy said:


> I have come to the belief that there is not an simple, honest and correct answer to the question of why........I had a very inappropriate friendship rapidly heading to a nasty ea, that caused so much stress to everyone around us that I walked away from my friend a year ago.
> 
> *Still trying hard to figure out why.....but no good answer or set of answers yet. * Of course I was ultimately being selfish, and all of the others things expressed here......but those are not really the answers to "why".......that is a culmination of so much
> 
> ...


I agree with this. You can get closer to the truth by asking why and also looking at other evidence to piece things together.

I also think a lot of inappropriate relationships /EAs /PAs get started due to opportunity as well.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

oneMOreguy said:


> I have come to the belief that there is not an simple, honest and correct answer to the question of why........I had a very inappropriate friendship rapidly heading to a nasty ea, that caused so much stress to everyone around us that I walked away from my friend a year ago.
> 
> Still trying hard to figure out why.....but no good answer or set of answers yet. Of course I was ultimately being selfish, and all of the others things expressed here......but those are not really the answers to "why".......that is a culmination of so much
> 
> ...


1-4 are all external factors outside of your control, which is a bit convenient. (My wife's analysis is usually within these four as well.)

Don't you have a no. 5: My own beliefs and value system?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

A lot of us see how easy it would be, most of us have all had opposite sex friends...

A couple months ago, I had went on a trucking forum to ask some questions regarding some chances my H might have to continue his communication with the OW while out on the road.

I got a response from a driver of the same company ( different state)... he was answering all my questions via PM's. At first it seemed nice having someone to talk to as we say (outside the box),,, but he started talking a little too personal.
While we were talking, guess what was going through my mind,,( my husband)....It felt very awkward,

He then starts wanting to know more about my marriage, and talking about issues within his own marriage. How unhappy he is,, blah, blah,,, I saw where he was going with this....so I stopped communicating.. 

Last week I got a message on the forum from him.
Due to a "paper work error",, he got terminated,he is getting a new job,, wanting to know what major cities are around me? CREEPY!! 

Needless to say, I have not logged on to this site since...


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## Tony55 (Jun 8, 2012)

@ Cpacan:
You overlook something that's very important; the analysis DID stop right there. And, yes, *MUTUAL* disdain. He, _a communication that indicates lack of respect_. She, _reject with contempt_.

@ Sara:
I didn't say he admitted to talking down to her, he never admitted that.

_"It has been said. If there is a lack of sex in a marriage usually the person who does not want sex has a good reason."_
I completely disagree with that statement... sorry.

_"IMO, the head case in your story is the Cheater"_
That isn't disputed.


Remember, we're discussing whether or not it's important to understand *why* a spouse would allow themselves to become intimately involved with a third person. It could be something as simple as selfishness or poor judgement or weakness or something as complicated as emotional abuse, regardless, for people *who want to try to reconcile* this is important understand. For the bereaved spouse who wants to dump the wayward spouse and move on, maybe not so important.

And if anyone is wondering what I would do (which really is beside the point), I wouldn't stay with a spouse who cheated; but that's just me.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> @ Cpacan:
> You overlook something that's very important; the analysis DID stop right there. And, yes, *MUTUAL* disdain. He, _a communication that indicates lack of respect_. She, _reject with contempt_.
> 
> [snip]
> ...


Maybe it's just semantics, but IMO it IS important to the BS to know that the WS is working on the "why", because of risk of repeting the deed. And if the WS gets away with concluding that the BS is partly responsible because of mutual disdain, not providing enough sex etc. the WS will learn absolutelyu nothing from his mistakes.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Tony55 said:


> ...A husband and wife, both educated (MBA and PhD) and both successful in their careers seemed like the perfect couple, but only on the surface. The husband would confide in me often over the years that he was tired of being rejected in bed. He didn’t resolve the issue and ultimately had his first affair in 20 years with a young, eager woman who completely put his head in the fog.
> 
> On D day the wife came to me crying and a total wreck. I pointed out that her husband had repeatedly remarked about his lack of sex, not only privately, but openly, in offhand remarks in front of her on several occasions. I asked her why she ignored these obvious red flags and didn’t directly address the issue with him all these years? She told me she resented his sexual advances because he would always talk down to her in front of other people and embarrass her. She claims that her lack of interest in sex was because she didn’t feel sexual with a man who always put her down.
> ...
> After several discussions with both sides (never with them both together) it seems (without his admission to this, but it was evident to me) that he felt insecure about her level of education, which caused him to perceive any discussion between them as a battle to prove he’s as smart as her and she isn’t a know-it-all, and that she must think he’s stupid, which caused him to talk down to her.


I feel the 'Why' here is caused by a vicious cycle. For example: Starting with some remarks the H perceived at a party, he began to feel insecure about how her (professional) friends viewed him. That caused him to compensate by making some smart ass remarks on her cost. That night she did not want to have sex. Later it was OK again, but a a next occasion the same behaviour repeated, only somewhat more sharp. The no sex was some longer period this time. And so on. Really not a big 'Why' in the beginning.

.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

*When you found out about the A how important was it for you to know why it had happened?*

It was very important for me to know "WHY" he thought it happened. I already had my opinion.

*When you made the decision to stay and try R or to go how important was the "why" to you?*

Extremely important. If he cheated while our M was good, I would not be in R. And if he blamed me and continued to justify it all, there would be no R.


*If you decided to try R, did you already know the "Why" before you made the attempt to move on with the person?*

Yes, there was no way I could have made the decision to R without him doing the work that required him to answer "why" fully and completely. And to know the difference between an excuse and a reason.

*If you are in R do you now feel you know "Why" it occurred?*

Yes, if you were to ask him him "why" he would say that it happened because he was an immature, dysfunctional jerk and a loser that handled his issues with our sex life poorly. 

And he now admits that he unfairly blamed me for all of our problems, didn't look inward and welcomed the attention of a loser which stroked his fragile ego. 

His justification pre-A was lack of sex and feeling unwanted and unloved BUT he makes it clear that the real "why" boils down to selfishness, lack of self-reflection, emotional immaturity and blame-shifting.


*If you consider your marriage "healed" from the devastation, how significant was answering the "why" to your success? Did it play any role at all?*

Not healed yet. Not even close but without him admitting that he was selfish, immature and in turn attracted that into his life in the form of OW, we would not be in R.

*Do you think knowing "Why" this has happened is important in moving forward after an A?*

If we had been having sex, getting along and things seemed fine, I would not be in R. However, our M was a mess pre-A. That's not an excuse for what he did and he fully admits and gets that BUT the fact that it was a mess, allows me to understand why he made such poor choices. Am I still angry about his poor choices? Hell, yes. Can I move on and stay married to him? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that he gets it and has made it clear that his "justifications" at the time were wrong, is what is keeping me in R. 

And even with all that, I still might not be able to move past the triggers and the betrayal so I can't even imagine attempting to R with a WS that can't answer "why".


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

cpacan said:


> 1-4 are all external factors outside of your control, which is a bit convenient. (My wife's analysis is usually within these four as well.)
> 
> *Don't you have a no. 5: My own beliefs and value system?*


..yes....number 5 as well, as well as probably 6 thru 10 and beyond.

Not trying to duck the human ability to make decisions, just trying to point out the whole complexity, as well as the factors that go into how we make decisions. 

But at the end of it all, the individual is responsible for their actions and decisions, not matter how or why the situation got to that point.


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