# Only 1 Mind Movie remains: sex in public places



## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

13 months post Dday, and we both are doing very well in our post discovery relationship. Of course the cheater always is doing great when they confess and the spouse doesn't leave them based on their offenses. They are quick to say "let's just move on" and "why do you keep asking questions about the past"? Because I'm human.

All of the mind movies have subsided, except for one. 13 months ago she informed me about going to parks, cemeteries, etc to have sex with the OM. She says it was his idea but she went along, so she was a willing participant. 

My IC says this keeps coming up in my head because, like many stories on TAM regarding infidelity, this is another case of doing things with the OM that she would never do with me.
For the 25 yrs I have known her, she would never, ever even think about taking a chance of being exposed in public, let alone getting drilled in the back of a car or on a park table!

At the time of discovery, I asked her the particulars, and even had her show me one of the places they went to. But she never really answered the why question, so I guess I will never know. 

Of course my mind movie probably is so much worse than the reality of what really happened, but it is there, in my head, at least once a month. This is what cheaters should realize: their actions cause semi-permanent scars on the mind, that no one else can see, even them.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

They surely have their own scars, MD. They have to live with what they did.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> 13 months post Dday, and we both are doing very well in our post discovery relationship. Of course the cheater always is doing great when they confess and the spouse doesn't leave them based on their offenses. They are quick to say "let's just move on" and "why do you keep asking questions about the past"? Because I'm human.
> 
> All of the mind movies have subsided, except for one. 13 months ago she informed me about going to parks, cemeteries, etc to have sex with the OM. She says it was his idea but she went along, so she was a willing participant.
> 
> ...


There is a way that you might be able to short circuit at least one aspect of this mind movie. 

Having sex in a cemetery is very disrespectful.

Your wife needs to make a confession to the nearest churches to the cemeteries and make a voluntary donation to expunge her sins.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

You could always try replacing the mind movies of them with your own. Take her out to dinner and nail her in the restroom. Play with her under the table while you eat.

Go on a picnic and find a spot on a nature trail and have at it.

Make your own mind movies so hot and kinky that nothing she's ever done before could possibly compare. If you happen to get caught and arrested, that's even better. They never did it that good.

Study up. Do some things to her she never dreamed could be done.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

jld said:


> They surely have their own scars, MD. They have to live with what they did.


This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read here on TAM.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> At the time of discovery, I asked her the particulars, and even had her show me one of the places they went to. But she never really answered the why question, so I guess I will never know.


You surely won't know if you accept anything less than what you want. Why would you do that? 

Theoretically, you are in the driver's seat. She is supposed to be earning your love and forgiveness. Why let her dictate terms and make exceptions?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> They surely have their own scars, MD. They have to live with what they did.


BS jlb. They have no problem F'in other people, they only stop if they get caught. That is what hurts them, not the fact they f**ked the marriage over.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MD I really can not see why you stayed with this woman, ouch. To each their own I guess.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ABHale said:


> BS jlb. They have no problem F'in other people, they only stop if they get caught. That is what hurts them, not the fact they f**ked the marriage over.


That might be true for some, but not all. I read once a man saying that the hardest part of his wife's affair was trying to help her forgive herself.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ABHale said:


> MD I really can not see why you stayed with this woman, ouch. To each their own I guess.


You know he cheated, too, right?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> That might be true for some, but not all. I read once a man saying that the hardest part of his wife's affair was trying to help her forgive herself.


For most it is true. And to the guy that you talk about here, he is nothing but panty waste. She has sucked him into the poor me I can't get over the fact I went out and f'ed all those guy that were not you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> You know he cheated, too, right?


Yes, after she cheated how many times. Also he had filled for D I believe I read. That is when she, I guess changed her f'ed up ways, started working on her self. Once he cheated during the D she could not have this going on, she was getting ready to lose her meal ticket.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

jld said:


> That might be true for some, but not all. I read once a man saying that the hardest part of his wife's affair was trying to help her forgive herself.


And that man is an idiot.

Seriously. You have no clue what you're talking about.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ABHale said:


> For most it is true. And to the guy that you talk about here, he is nothing but panty waste. She has sucked him into the poor me I can't get over the fact I went out and f'ed all those guy that were not you.


He seemed quite sincere, ABHale. I thought him quite inspiring.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ABHale said:


> Yes, after she cheated how many times. Also he had filled for D I believe I read. That is when she, I guess changed her f'ed up ways, started working on her self. Once he cheated during the D she could not have this going on, she was getting ready to lose her meal ticket.


I think he said she is an author. That would indicate she has her own money.

I think they love each other and are working hard to reconcile. I think it is great.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> You know he cheated, too, right?


Let me ask something jld. 

Have you cheated on you H, Doug I think I have heard is his name?

Do you believe that you would have the right to if he was not meeting your needs?

Or

If he was not there for you when you needed him to be, is it ok to make a mistake if another guy was there for you?

You are a hypocrite if you say no to these. This is what you have been saying on here ever sense I saw your post for the first time.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

She'll just ignore you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> I think he said she is an author. That would indicate she has her own money.
> 
> I think they love each other and are working hard to reconcile. I think it is great.


My post is still true. She didn't change her f'ed up ways until she saw she was losing him. She needed something in the marriage. Her "love" for him was not good enough to keep her faithful, but threaten to leave. 

It takes two to make a good marriage. 

It only takes one to make it a living hell or to cheat.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

You aren't alone in this issue, my W did stuff with OM in his truck in parking lot....nothing that my W and i had not done before but not since like 20yrs ago when we lived with our parents and had nowhere else to go. I despise anything sexual in a car now totally, I have even told her not to kiss me or anything while we are in car...ugh...can't stand it now.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

jld said:


> They surely have their own scars, MD. They have to live with what they did.


True, but all too many times they see no wrong in what they did. This might make me more upset than the fact that they did it.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

ABHale said:


> Let me ask something jld.
> 
> Have you cheated on you H, Doug I think I have heard is his name?
> 
> ...


I have not cheated on him, nor he on me.

I think either of us cheating would be awful. I do not believe either of us ever would. I am transparent with him, and tell him immediately if I feel attracted to another man. It takes the power out of it.

Dug feels responsible for our marriage, AB. He has told me that if I ever cheated, he would consider it his fault. 

That may not jive with CWI, but he has the right to his own opinion.

But no cheating is going to happen, so it really does not matter.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> True, but all too many times they see no wrong in what they did. This might make me more upset than the fact that they did it.


I think MD's wife sees the wrong in it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> You aren't alone in this issue, my W did stuff with OM in his truck in parking lot....nothing that my W and i had not done before but not since like 20yrs ago when we lived with our parents and had nowhere else to go. I despise anything sexual in a car now totally, I have even told her not to kiss me or anything while we are in car...ugh...can't stand it now.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


Then why live like this?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

jld said:


> I have not cheated on him, nor he on me.
> 
> I think either of us cheating would be awful. I do not believe either of us ever would. I am transparent with him, and tell him immediately if I feel attracted to another man. It takes the power out of it.
> 
> ...


Told ya she'd ignore you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> I have not cheated on him, nor he on me.
> 
> I think either of us cheating would be awful. I do not believe either of us ever would. I am transparent with him, and tell him immediately if I feel attracted to another man. It takes the power out of it.
> 
> ...



Not a answer to my question.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

jld said:


> I think MD's wife sees the wrong in it.


I think I'll have to disagree with you there. She may have started out that way, but she went along with what they did as a willing participant. You do willingly go along with something you don't think is wrong.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I think I'll have to disagree with you there. She may have started out that way, but she went along with what they did as a willing participant. You do willingly go along with something you don't think is wrong.


Really? You have never eaten a cookie when you knew an apple was a healthier choice?

I think they are both working this out very well. It just takes time.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

jld said:


> Really? You have never eaten a cookie when you knew an apple was a healthier choice?
> 
> I think they are both working this out very well. It just takes time.


What the hell does this even mean. Are you really comparing eating a cookie over an apple to cheating. One eat the cookie run a mile, no problems. F**K SOMEONE OTHER THEN YOUR SO, DESTROY YOUR RELATIONSHIP!!

Reality to jld, get a clue.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

jld said:


> I have not cheated on him, nor he on me.
> 
> I think either of us cheating would be awful. I do not believe either of us ever would. I am transparent with him, and tell him immediately if I feel attracted to another man. It takes the power out of it.
> 
> ...


Wait - your not a BS/WS? Yet you pontificate on here like you own the place? Why do you think you can make any valid points on an infidelity forum when you have zero credibility?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

To any poster who has never had to treat the sting of infidelity: I hope and pray it never happens to you. But if it does, be ready for those mind movies, especially with a WW. I just wonder how many times they engaged in it after I was back from overseas.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MD I really feel for you. I hope things get better for you. I just do not see how you did it with what she had done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> To any poster who has never had to treat the sting of infidelity: I hope and pray it never happens to you. But if it does, be ready for those mind movies, especially with a WW. I just wonder how many times they engaged in it after I was back from overseas.


My wife didn't cheat, but my first real long term relationship, a person who I had asked to marry did. I remember also that I would have memories of our good times and they were just as painful, because it felt like a big lie now. I feel for you man, I moved on after about 3 months, just couldn't take it. I don't have that issue with my wife now thank God. Are you sure this is what you want? Plenty of people have happy lives after they move on. Kids grow up just fine.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read here on TAM.


I as going to pass a similar comment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

ABHale said:


> Then why live like this?


Cause is not something I really care for much anyways, I don't miss it either , dont care for doing stuff in a car in public spaces...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Cause is not something I really care for much anyways, I don't miss it either , dont care for doing stuff in a car in public spaces...


I think the question was more why stay married.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJ, here is something that might alleviate some of the pain. 

Back in my home town of Birmingham England there was an area known for promiscuous goings on.

It was St Philips Church yard, Birmingham Cathedral.

It was at the rear of a large department store called Rackhams.

"At the back of Rackhams" is still a phrase indicating promiscuous sex in the open air. 

Someone wrote a song about it called "the back of Rackhams" about a young lady who would 'comfort' men amongst the graves in St Philips church yard by the horizontal use of grave stones.

A phrase from the song reminds me of your wife's activities... "She had RIP embossed on her behind. .."

You might need to check out your wife's behind to see if anything is embossed there. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Cause is not something I really care for much anyways, I don't miss it either , dont care for doing stuff in a car in public spaces...


No not what I meant. You are still hurting from what had happen. Why? You have let that other man win, or your wife to get away with it. Why are you letting this hurt you still? Not even a kiss hello when your pick her up? Why is this happening. I will read your story if it is on here. 

Forgiving is one thing forgetting and moving on an trusting again is another.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

One more thing that should be said and rarely is. You may never get over this, in the sense that you may be triggered by it for the rest of your life. That is just the way it is. Also when you stay in the relationship there is a better chance that you will still trigger because your SO will to some extent be a constant reminder of such facts. Just read a thread from someone 15 year later that still triggers, this is part of the cost of staying with someone who did this to you. You need to understand that.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

MAJ, I hate to ask this but are you sure you don't find the thoughts (mind movies) of your wife having sex and responding to other men in cemeteries, picknik tables, and the like taboo, and somewhat erotic? There may be a hint of voyeurism there my man.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Some of the responses here... SMH. You just never know what some folks will say. 

The mind movies may never go away. I agree with your therapist that you focus on the things that she did that she won't do with you. All you can do is try to think of the future and work to make your marriage work for both of you. 

You certainly have chosen a hard path and it's not one that many of us here could follow. Best of luck as you move forward.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

VladDracul said:


> MAJ, I hate to ask this but are you sure you don't find the thoughts (mind movies) of your wife having sex and responding to other men in cemeteries, picknik tables, and the like taboo, and somewhat erotic? There may be a hint of voyeurism there my man.


Honestly, I don't find it appealing in the least.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Well MAJ... maybe consider opening up yourself to having sex in public like places. Not out in public where you DO get caught, and of course not cemeteries as its very much NOT your thing.

Look at doing things that are NOT of the norm... the bed, same-ol same-ol. Having sex in the woods, beach, pool, theater, in the car, etc... that adds excitement for both of you.

I'm bummed out that my recent injuries and health issues have put many ideas I want to do, on the back burner. I'm a lot better than a week ago, but its gonna take me months to get good.

Talk about "what turns you on" with the SO, tell her your ideas.... and even if its not something you ever thought about before - if it makes your wife/so excited - then do it... that energy will bounce back onto you. Well, it should anyway.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Look at doing things that are NOT of the norm... the bed, same-ol same-ol. Having sex in the woods, beach, pool, theater, in the car, etc... that adds excitement for both of you.


The trouble with some relationships is you my have sex in the woods, in cars, beach, etc, its still with the same-ol, same-ol (that'd be you).
I said all that to say this. If you've got to the point where its so boring that you've got to seek new, exotic, and public places to make sex exciting and enjoyable, one or both of you are with the wrong person. 
Moreover, ya'll need to quit worrying about, "she did that with the other guy but won't do it with me". There's a fair chance that if she ain't doing it with you, she didn't enjoy it that much anyway. If she likes something but is not doing it with you, you've got problems that a blanket on the ground in a public park ain't gonna solve.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I definitely agree that these things your wife would do with the OM that she would not do with you offers you a rare insight into what she really, deep, deep, down finds erotic. 

Use that knowledge for Good. You've decided to stay with this woman - good for you. Now work to make it better than it was before. There must be some way to scratch this itch your wife has short of banging in the back of a police cruiser. Then just maybe the planning, execution, and memory of your own naughty behavior can erase your imagination.

All of this, of course, after we satisfy the forum's blood lust and execute your wife in the public square.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Festivus said:


> I definitely agree that these things your wife would do with the OM that she would not do with you offers you a rare insight into what she really, deep, deep, down finds erotic.
> 
> Use that knowledge for Good. You've decided to stay with this woman - good for you. Now work to make it better than it was before. There must be some way to scratch this itch your wife has short of banging in the back of a police cruiser. Then just maybe the planning, execution, and memory of your own naughty behavior can erase your imagination.
> 
> All of this, of course, after we satisfy the forum's blood lust and execute your wife in the public square.


I don't know if she finds it erotic necessarily. The dynamic is always different when different actors are involved. Personality, age, physical differences, marriage status, etc. may all play a part. I believe the OM was a married narcissistic player and most likely was gaming several women. She knew this but still went along for the "ride".

In our discussions, sometimes they went to public outdoor places just for something fun/different. Other times, due to necessity because spouses were at home and the houses were unavailable.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> For the 25 yrs I have known her, she would never, ever even think about taking a chance of being exposed in public, let alone getting drilled in the back of a car or on a park table!


THAT really IS the major kick in the nads...that they enjoy, and even seek out, such kinky over-the-top sex with their APs when all along they were denying you even mundane vanilla sex acts.

There is a theory (Madona/wh**e theory) that tries to explain it. But i personally think it is B.S. They just get bored in marriage, cross the line to cheating, and THEN say to themselves...well it went THIS far, maybe i should try out being a REAL **** now too!


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Your wife was probably less interested in the type/place of sex than she was in impressing her affair partner. She doesn't really want these things but wants him to desire her more than just about anything. Her excitement from the attention she gets is able to overcome her lack of an adventurous sex drive. It's really just human nature at play. How many women complain that their cheating husbands do things with their AP that they dreamed he would do with them (i.e. dancing, flowers, fancy dinners, etc?). 

I'll all but guarantee that if she ended up leaving you and committing to him the sex would become vanilla pretty quickly and then taper off in frequency.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

That being said, I still don't understand why you would let her off the hook on this issue. I'm sure you have your reasons, but I'm not sure how you can really reconcile if she refuses to come clean. Not sure why you would want to, either. 

Good luck.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It may also be the whole mentality of trying things while on limited time with the OM, where mistakes don't count against you and exploration is available without regret. 

And her brain was willing to compromise to continue to get the attention rush.

I wonder how he felt towards the end of their relationship when he called her one night and wanted her to run away with him, and she refused. Did he think about all the freaky public sex they had and then she wants to get back with her husband and live happily ever after?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> It may also be the whole mentality of trying things while on limited time with the OM, where mistakes don't count against you and exploration is available without regret.
> 
> And her brain was willing to compromise to continue to get the attention rush.
> 
> I wonder how he felt towards the end of their relationship when he called her one night and wanted her to run away with him, and she refused. Did he think about all the freaky public sex they had and then she wants to get back with her husband and live happily ever after?


They offer freaky sex to their married lover rather than vanilla sex because each could get vanilla at home.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I wonder how he felt towards the end of their relationship when he called her one night and wanted her to run away with him, and she refused. Did he think about all the freaky public sex they had and then she wants to get back with her husband and live happily ever after?


I'm guilty of it to but a lot of especially younger guys start out meeting a woman for sex and end up want to cash in every chip they have to be with her, as if she has something no other woman has got. These guys usually end up as road kill along the way. When you get my age, you start to realize you were really seeking someone who treats you like the cats pajamas rather than what you thought had the best puzzy you every had and you just couldn't give it up. 
Like a lot of things in life, getting what you what can cause you considerable misery and be your downfall.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I might be inclined to push a little on this as part of reconciliation.

"I want some of what he got"
"But you're the nice guy who would never ask for that"
"Not any more. If he was worth it, I'm worth it, and I want some of what he got"

Of course, if you don't really want that kind of behavior, if it would be a trigger instead, then I would avoid it. But who knows? Perhaps you can be both the stable man to whom she wants to be married and the bad boy with whom she's willing to expand her sexual boundaries, just a little.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

zookeeper said:


> That being said, I still don't understand why you would *let her off the hook* on this issue. I'm sure you have your reasons, but I'm not sure how you can really reconcile if she refuses to *come clean*. Not sure why you would want to, either.
> 
> Good luck.


How would I or anyone in my position know the complete truth? How would you know if an "I don't recall", or "I wasn't planning it", or "it was his idea" answer is really true or not? 

And even if I spoke with the other party (in this case I did not), who's to say that he would tell the truth and how do you prove it?


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> How would I or anyone in my position know the complete truth? How would you know if an "I don't recall", or "I wasn't planning it", or "it was his idea" answer is really true or not?
> 
> And even if I spoke with the other party (in this case I did not), who's to say that he would tell the truth and how do you prove it?


You never will. One of the reasons I personally would never consider reconciliation with a cheater. You are trying to and I respect your choice. 

Unless I misread your original post, you said you never got an answer as to why. That's a lot different than getting an answer you have to wonder about. An answer of "I don't know" or "I don't remember" is horse **** and you know it. What exactly are you trying to save if it's based on lies and deception? If you are not able to come to a place where you can trust her again...what is the point?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> How would I or anyone in my position know the complete truth? How would you know if an "I don't recall", or "I wasn't planning it", or "it was his idea" answer is really true or not?
> 
> And even if I spoke with the other party (in this case I did not), who's to say that he would tell the truth and how do you prove it?


I am speaking out of ignorance here, others sadly have more experience; but when have I ever let ignorance stop me.

You never know the complete truth, not in this world, but you need the truth to your satisfaction. That satisfaction is vital to you having confidence to more forward. To get that you need to keep asking, and asking. 
Perhaps you ask different versions of the question, eg "why did you do...?" or "why did you go along with ...?", or "why was ... acceptable with OM?" 
Perhaps get help asking from MC, or other trusted party.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

I don't know all the particulars of your story - just perused what's in this thread. But the thought did occur that it could be a goal of yours to get her to a semi public place just to prove that she'd do the same for you. Or perhaps just ratcheting up your sex life to a place that it's not been before. Maybe not the cemetary though...


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I ask her some questions last night about the why. She said pretty much he was a "walking dildo", and at that point he would make contact when he wanted some, which was 2-3 times per week. If she was needing a fix (about 2/3 of the times she was contacted) she would agree and make arrangements to meet up with him. Otherwise it was "not today". He made the perfect dido, because he was married. He didn't ask to stay over, or to go on dates or other "traditional" actives when dating. 

At some point he picked her up and announced that they were going to the cemetery for some fun and variety to keep it interesting, and she went along to keep getting her fix. She said the excitement of getting caught added to the experience, at the time.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Maj, that is the kicker I was getting at. Excitement is what people (women more so, IMHO) like with taboo sex. I get like doing things that makes my wife excited and sexual, it doesn't have to be something I'm 100% into - but I can enjoy her enjoyment. (NOT including infidelity, of course)

So yeah, look at doing *different* things and ways of sex with each other, not necessarily the SAME things as what she did with the AP. The "naughty" factor is a turn on. We all have our general way of love-making, even if its the BEST, its still the same. While a weak analogy, imagine if they made 20 Star Trek movies with the Exact same plot and characters, just different dates... boring. So mix it up a bit. With my recent injuries, my sexual abilities is severely limited and takes "work" to avoid pain. But I got some plans for fun when I get better.

Recently, my wife send me a link with a series of sexual positions with 3D models... and yea, we wanna do all of them. Its only 20 positions in this particular link. And reflecting on it, I've done about 17 of them - but after all these years, only have done about 6 of them with my wife! WTF?! So I'm going to change that. Try hair pulling? Being an Alpha and say "suck me now!" can work wonders with some couples.

So yeah, demanding a BJ while driving to a social gathering is naughty and will be on her mind for the rest of the night. "excitement of getting caught" is exciting. How about having sex at a hotel and leaving the windows wide open?! Still doesn't mean people are watching, likely not. But still... naughty.

Of course, there are concerns of triggers and such. So anything you do "outside the norm" can't be anyplace that was done with AP. But hey, maybe make a special cemetery sex act on top of his parents graves? (ok, that maybe pushing it too far). I have my own concerns and I've had a few sexual dreams recently that have caused me to have panic attacks. So I understand, that I have things that need to be worked out, as do you. 

If you watched a video someone linked from a TED talk, in which she says talks about cheater and that IF the couple put some of the effort of imagination/excitement from the affair into their own relationship, it can work wonders. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q&feature=share


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I ask her some questions last night about the why. She said pretty much he was a "walking dildo", and at that point he would make contact when he wanted some, which was 2-3 times per week. If she was needing a fix (about 2/3 of the times she was contacted) she would agree and make arrangements to meet up with him. Otherwise it was "not today". He made the perfect dido, because he was married. He didn't ask to stay over, or to go on dates or other "traditional" actives when dating.
> 
> At some point he picked her up and announced that they were going to the cemetery for some fun and variety to keep it interesting, and she went along to keep getting her fix. She said the excitement of getting caught added to the experience, at the time.


That response indicates very serous problems. This is the way sex addicts think. Be very careful OP.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> if you watched a video someone linked from a TED talk, in which she says talks about cheater and that IF they couple put some of the imagination/excitement from the affair into their own relationship can work wonders. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q&feature=share


Or you could find someone new and do that with a person who didn't blatantly stomp on your soul. Just saying. 0


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Or you could find someone knew and do that with a person who didn't blatantly stomp on your soul. Just saying. 0


It really IS OK for him to reconcile with his wife if he wants.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> 13 months post Dday, and we both are doing very well in our post discovery relationship. Of course the cheater always is doing great when they confess and the spouse doesn't leave them based on their offenses. *They are quick to say "let's just move on" and "why do you keep asking questions about the past"? Because I'm human.*
> 
> All of the mind movies have subsided, except for one. 13 months ago she informed me about going to parks, cemeteries, etc to have sex with the OM. She says it was his idea but she went along, so she was a willing participant.
> 
> ...


I have not read the entire thread so forgive any redundancy but the bolded above I find very troubling. If that is indeed her attitude then I regret to inform you that you are not reconciling with someone who is fully remorseful and contrite but rather wanting to rugsweep her misdeeds. 

If she were genuinely remorseful she would be as devastated, perhaps even more so than you. Rather, her attitude suggests an air of entitlement based on her "being human" statement meaning you should accept her "being human" and forget and move on.

A truly remorseful person, understanding the horrific damage they had caused, would not adopt such a mindset but would instead realize the pain and anguish they had caused and be intent on repairing it at any cost as opposed to simply explaining it away with "being human". If I were you I would be deeply concerned by this.

And allow me to correct your last sentence from above as follows: This is what reconcilers have to realize: their actions cause semi-permanent scars on the mind, that no one else can see, even them.

It will be impossible to R if she does not comprehend this, it is what differentiates a cheater from someone truly interested in reconciliation.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Festivus said:


> It really IS OK for him to reconcile with his wife if he wants.


Didn't say that it wasn't OK, it may not be wise though, it is also OK if he doesn't


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Festivus said:


> It really IS OK for him to reconcile with his wife if he wants.


Its ok to reconcile. Maj however seems to have a really tough time with his wife's past. Moreover, he's a little too caught up into why his wife behaved in the manner she did. And as No Choice points out, "her attitude suggests an air of entitlement" suggest she's a little too much nonchalant to actually inventory the damage. In my opinion him constantly digging up to bodies to conduct more autopsies and expecting anything to come of it at this late date is counter productive for him to come to terms with her "indiscretions" . He may be living with his WW but they ain't reconciled in my understanding of the term.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

I still can not understand why you are still with her after all of this. After all the disrespect and basically saying you were not good enough. Her walking ****, getting her fix. 

How did she convince you that she actually loves you after all of this. She basically took a dump on you marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I was hoping this thread would not morph into a discussion of our entire relationship, which I have already written about in numerous other threads. I don't feel it is necessary to both describe the circumstances and the reasons why I choose to R, but only dig into this particular issue.

She has admitted all of her wrong doing, apologized at length, shown honest regret for her actions, and answered all of my questions. She was also accepting when I notified family and friends of all of her past misdeeds. I also contacted previous OM and/or their spouses to verify information.

She was not perfect in her path of R, by not revealing the full truth until last year. And she gave vague or not complete answers at first, but now (thru my insistence) she gives complete answers, even to repeat questions because she knows that is what I need to trust her.

As I have said before (regarding Mr. Cemetery man), I believe they took turns using each other to meet their temporary needs, knowing they were on limited time. We were separated pending D, so the dynamic was unique. This OM was not plan A or plan B, and he had a rival for plan C, but he didn't know that.

The point of this thread I suppose was to get into the mind of the WS, to see why she would engage in activities that were out of the norm for her.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

MAJ, there is no reason to NOT discuss sexual fantasies with your wife - like what are things she would like to do, but not done before. role play...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I was hoping this thread would not morph into a discussion of our entire relationship, which I have already written about in numerous other threads. I don't feel it is necessary to both describe the circumstances and the reasons why I choose to R, but only dig into this particular issue.
> 
> She has admitted all of her wrong doing, apologized at length, shown honest regret for her actions, and answered all of my questions. She was also accepting when I notified family and friends of all of her past misdeeds. I also contacted previous OM and/or their spouses to verify information.
> 
> ...


You need clarity. *Out of the norm for her and you.* People are their actions not their words. Her mind was she wanted to get off and she really didn't care if you were hurt at that moment. She probably thought she wouldn't get caught. You read her diary, that was her honest assessment of what was going on in her mind at the time, don't live in denial, accept it. She felt entitled, liked having kinky sex with this man more then she cared about being faithful with you or your kids if you have them. It was a simple choice and she picked him. Accept it. 

Your problem is you want someone to tell you that this wasn't the real reason, there was some deeper reason. I get it, it's really hard to face the awful truth. I am sorry man but that's it. You are never going to get a better reason then that. I always see BS even years later say, "I still don't understand why my WS did this." I believe they are being willfully obtuse because they are trying to shield themselves from the very painful fact that their partner just didn't give a **** about them when they were in the affair. It enables them to stay married to their spouse, because it is hard to stay married to a person who could do what your wife did. 

If you want a true R then YOU have to accept this fact. You have to be honest with yourself and your circumstance. You have to be honest about who she is. 

Here is the thing, many partners do finally accept this fact years later. This is when you see these people who fall out of love with their WS, like that thread that was posted on here, and there are many others. When they say stuff like, "she has done everything right but I can't even look at her." Again what I an others are tell you is, if you are determined to stay together then you HAVE TO accept the fact that this is who she is, what she did, and live with it. If you stay it's never going to be a fair deal for you. Staying with her is accepting that you are taking a loss on your investment.

Understand what she did to you was akin to emotional rape. There is no way to completely get over it, trauma like that changes you, it because a part of who you are. You are going to have the mind movies for a long time, after a while maybe not as frequently but you will have them. You will have them more and it will be much harder to live with if you stay with her. Because her presence is a trigger. It will be much, much harder to live with if you stay with her and try to live in denial with who she is and what she has done. Then you have mind movies followed by obsessing about why. You will never get the answer you want because you just don't really want to face the truth. 

If I were you when I have the mind movie my thinking would be. "Well I am married to a person who was a giant assh***. Hopefully she is getting better. This is what I have chosen to do so might as well get on with it. Hmm, I deserve some kinky sex though, let me think of something kinky we can do." I couldn't do it, but to me that is making the best of the situation you are in.

Despite what you may think you can't love her into a better person. Or that magical wife you had before any of this sH*t went down. This is who she is man. You can't love the circumstances away. This is what she did man. You are married to a woman who told you she used another man as a dildo. The only thing you can change in that sentence is the married part. Accept it, then choose to live with her or divorce her.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> You need clarity. *Out of the norm for her and you.* People are their actions not their words. Her mind was she wanted to get off and she really didn't care if you were hurt at that moment. She probably thought she wouldn't get caught. You read her diary, that was her honest assessment of what was going on in her mind at the time, don't live in denial, accept it. She felt entitled, liked having kinky sex with this man more then she cared about being faithful with you or your kids if you have them. It was a simple choice and she picked him. Accept it.
> 
> Your problem is you want someone to tell you that this wasn't the real reason, there was some deeper reason. I get it, it's really hard to face the awful truth. I am sorry man but that's it. You are never going to get a better reason then that. I always see BS even years later say, "I still don't understand why my WS did this." I believe they are being willfully obtuse because they are trying to shield themselves from the very painful fact that their partner just didn't give a **** about them when they were in the affair. It enables them to stay married to their spouse, because it is hard to stay married to a person who could do what your wife did.
> 
> ...


I am not sure how you are making assumptions about me and my situation. I do accept what happened 12+ yrs ago. I just wish I had been given the complete truth and the reasons why much sooner than last year. I have told her that I am more upset if I find out something that she knew about but didn't tell me, than the actual negative behavior itself. She didn't know that then but she knows it now, and our marriage is better because of it. I haven't told her about the residual mind movies I have occasional, only told my counselor. To her, we have moved past it with my occasional questions, which she answers (I believe) to the best of her ability.

Her presence is not a trigger, but a glimpse into the mind of a one-time selfish woman, who was looking for something better until she realized she already had it .


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You keep saying "out of the norm for her". Hate to say it but the affairs was the norm. 

How many years did all the affairs cover?

How many different guys where there?

Why did she do it in all the public places? Because she wanted to. 

How do you stop the mind f**k movies, you find another woman and start making new memories.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ABHale said:


> You keep saying "out of the norm for her". Hate to say it but the affairs was the norm.
> 
> How many years did all the affairs cover?
> 
> ...


Click on "my story" in my signature if you want the whole story.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I am not sure how you are making assumptions about me and my situation. I do accept what happened 12+ yrs ago. I just wish I had been given the complete truth and the reasons why much sooner than last year. I have told her that I am more upset if I find out something that she knew about but didn't tell me, than the actual negative behavior itself. She didn't know that then but she knows it now, and our marriage is better because of it. I haven't told her about the residual mind movies I have occasional, only told my counselor. To her, we have moved past it with my occasional questions, which she answers (I believe) to the best of her ability.
> 
> Her presence is not a trigger, but a glimpse into the mind of a one-time selfish woman, who was looking for something better until she realized she already had it .


She is writing a novel about her affair, you going to read it? You say so yourself she probably told you because she wanted to write about it. You wife is a classic narcissist. She was also a counselor herself right? How does she square that with what she has done to you?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

So not only did she betray you in the most hurtful way numerous times, but she is going to tell the whole world how she did it and then got away with it. 
Your worried about the mind move, you had trouble running into one of the affair partners at the bar. These is nothing compaired to what's coming when the book is release.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> She is writing a novel about her affair, you going to read it? You say so yourself she probably told you because she wanted to write about it. You wife is a classic narcissist. She was also a counselor herself right? How does she square that with what she has done to you?


She can take what she has learned from our experience and help others. Would you take advice from a weight-loss counselor who weighs 400 pounds, or from a counselor who used to heavy, but found a way to lose 200 pounds and keep it off for years?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ABHale said:


> So not only did she betray you in the most hurtful way numerous times, but she is going to tell the whole world how she did it and then got away with it.
> Your worried about the mind move, you had trouble running into one of the affair partners at the bar. These is nothing compaired to what's coming when the book is release.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We shall see. Her other non-fictions novels used parts of our real life and were not cause for concern. 

*she did it and then got away with it.* - whatever do you mean? You make it sound like an unsolved crime without remorse.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MD I just don't see any remorse from looking from the outside. You are with her everyday so you might see it or you might be blind to it. 

With what she has used already, do poeple know the parts in it are about the two of you. If not you are compairing apples to oranges. If poeple know the new book is about her many affairs, how do you think you will be viewed in it. Especially when she starts talking about how great it felt while she was doing it. 

You have stayed with a serial cheater who is writing a book about it. Can you honestly not see how you are going to come off in the book if poeple know it is about the two of you. 

And the last line of the book. 

After everything I did my husband stayed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

ABHale said:


> MD I just don't see any remorse from looking from the outside. You are with her everyday so you might see it or you might be blind to it.
> 
> With what she has used already, do poeple know the parts in it are about the two of you. If not you are compairing apples to oranges. If poeple know the new book is about her many affairs, how do you think you will be viewed in it. Especially when she starts talking about how great it felt while she was doing it.
> 
> ...


Honesty in non-fiction books is necessary for really "connecting with" the reader. Cheaters make excuses for their actions, and freely admit it felt good/right/fun at the time. That is reality. To say otherwise would be disingenuous. 

At first she claimed that the whole time she was with OM she was depressed and just hoped I would come back. I told her that is total BS (for the most part). She knew what she was doing and really enjoyed it, especially when she knew I would be gone for a given period of time and could freely "dabble" in lust. To try to convince a reader otherwise will lose the reader. Be honest. She understands this much better now. As much as I don't like it, as a human I can understand it, and the readers will also. There are many WS and BS who buy books. 

For the last line, it would be more appropriate to say something like "after all the mistakes we both made, we found a way to work thru all of our problems and reemerged on the other side with a better marriage". You guys seem to forget that I had relationships outside of marriage also.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Was your relationship before or after all of her affairs? If I remember right you started seeing someone when you were going to divorce. Not the same as her doing all those other guys before then. 

Hope your not mad at me. I just think if it was one guy and the guilt made her confess I would believe what she was saying and have true remorse. With it being several guys and not quiting until you were leaving, I have trouble believing her remorse is true. Especially putting you through the ringer by writing a book about it all. Just taking the chance that it might cause you pain should be enough to not write the book. 

Sorry but looking from the outside like I am. I will stick with my ending. You are in love with her still and are doing everything you can to R. You have to believe your ending it it is true or not. At least it is for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> She can take what she has learned from our experience and help others. Would you take advice from a weight-loss counselor who weighs 400 pounds, or from a counselor who used to heavy, but found a way to lose 200 pounds and keep it off for years?


What did she learn, marry someone who stays and you're good?

I am going to stop commenting now because I don't think what I am saying is going to help you. All I have do do is look at your posting history to know that you have much more then "only 1 mind movie remaining". I don't blame you. This woman has done terrible things to you, and I don't think she even understands your pain, you said in your other post she thinks you are all healed now. This begs the question what kind of counselor is she? Most of my bluntness from me is because I am angry FOR you. No one deserves to be treated the way you were. And if I remember right you even covered for her career right? If so that was also very unethical of her. 

The bottom line MD, I don't think you ever will get over the mind movies because you don't really have a partner who cares if you get over them. So I guess you will just have to learn to live with them.

One last question did she have the courtesy to ask you if she could write this book? If she could use the most painful, traumatic part of your life as a way to promote herself?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> She can take what she has learned from our experience and help others. Would you take advice from a weight-loss counselor who weighs 400 pounds, or from a counselor who used to heavy, but found a way to lose 200 pounds and keep it off for years?



Help others how?

How to cheat and get away with it in the end?

Sorry but I would not want any of my female relatives or friends taking advice from your wife. It really doesn't matter what I want, they wouldn't anyway.

I strongly believe in forgiveness, that doesn't mean you trust or stay with the one that betrayed you. 

Hope the best for you MD. I am done posting on the thread. Hope life brings you happiness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

VladDracul said:


> The trouble with some relationships is you my have sex in the woods, in cars, beach, etc, its still with the same-ol, same-ol (that'd be you).
> I said all that to say this. If you've got to the point where its so boring that you've got to seek new, exotic, and public places to make sex exciting and enjoyable, one or both of you are with the wrong person.
> Moreover, ya'll need to quit worrying about, "she did that with the other guy but won't do it with me". *There's a fair chance that if she ain't doing it with you, she didn't enjoy it that much anyway.* If she likes something but is not doing it with you, you've got problems that a blanket on the ground in a public park ain't gonna solve.


It's not so much the act as it would be the state of mind of the WW (or a WH) at the time. The message sent is "I don't value my spouse enough to consider this request, but I value an AP highly enough to act on said request". 

The brain is the biggest sexual organ we have. IMHO, there is a thin line that separates a so so lover from a great one, and a lot of it is based on how a lover sells the experience. 

I got nothing for the OP, because IMHO he should have bailed a long time ago given that there were no kids involved. Fear of the unknown is the most likely reason why he stayed.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Maj the only way it will ever get better, the only way you will ever heal, is to get this woman out of your life. 

Her very existence on this planet is an ongoing trigger for you.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Banned-It.45 said:


> Maj the only way it will ever get better, the only way you will ever heal, is to get this woman out of your life.
> 
> Her very existence on this planet is an ongoing trigger for you.


I have a feeling this image will stay with me the rest of my life, no matter who I am with. The circumstances that were in place at that time will never change: we were married (albeit physically separated for long periods of time) and she sought and received comfort in the arms of OM. I will forever blame myself for setting the circumstances and chalk it up as one of the biggest mistakes of my life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> I have a feeling this image will stay with me the rest of my life, no matter who I am with. The circumstances that were in place at that time will never change: we were married (albeit physically separated for long periods of time) and she sought and received comfort in the arms of OM. *I will forever blame myself for setting the circumstances and chalk it up as one of the biggest mistakes of my life*.


Does she blame you?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> They surely have their own scars, MD. They have to live with what they did.


Well, let's see...

She had sex on a park picnic table with a man she found sexually arousing, a little dangerous, emotionally and physically meeting needs when she felt at her most neglected and vulnerable because her husband wasn't meeting those needs.

So, she was emotionally and sexually satisfied at that time while living a fantasy fraught with "danger". Danger is in quotations because in all honesty, she didn't have as much to lose other than a marriage she wasn't happy with.

I'm having trouble seeing how she would not fondly remember such experiences. Isn't this like living out a sort of "rape fantasy", if she should get caught? So, the pleasurable mental and emotional oxytocin continues, even through questions of her memories of it, while Maj. must deal with the rotten brain chemicals that make him feel like she settled for him. 

Yeah, not so sure I agree.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Well, let's see...
> 
> She had sex on a park picnic table with a man she found sexually arousing, a little dangerous, emotionally and physically meeting needs when she felt at her most neglected and vulnerable because her husband wasn't meeting those needs.
> 
> ...


This couple loves each other very much. They are both showing courage and maturity in being completely honest with each other about their regrets from the past. 

I don't think either of them looks upon what in the moment may have seemed fun or satisfying with anything other than a strong desire today to have made different choices. 

But they cannot change the past. They have to learn from it and make peace with it. Then, together, they can embrace their future.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

jld said:


> This couple loves each other very much. They are both showing courage and maturity in being completely honest with each other about their regrets from the past.
> 
> I don't think either of them looks upon what in the moment may have seemed fun or satisfying with anything other than a strong desire today to have made different choices.
> 
> But *they cannot change the past. They have to learn from it and make peace with it.* Then, together, they can embrace their future.


The bold is the only part that is truth. The rest is conjecture based upon personal ideals.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

It took me about 6 months to work thru the issue involving the practice of her inviting the OM and me to go out together. I was able to finally come to terms and understand that she did this because subconsciously she wanted something to give and for the relationship with the OM to be discovered, but her conscious mind could not just openly confess.
Instead she waits 11 yrs to tell me.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Living in a room full of Sh!t you might get kinda use to the smell over time but it still stinks like sh!t.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I know I said I wouldn't post but you didn't answer my question. Did she ask you first if she could write the book or did she just decide to write it, and in the process have to come clean about everything because she has been lying to you all this time? If it is the later then she decided that your suffering wasn't worth her not having the ability to make money, and receive accolades. In fact your suffering will be one of the main subjects of the book. Nice. That doesn't sound like a spouse that is committed R to me. Sounds likes she is doing what she has always done, which is whatever the hell she wants. Did she decide to do it after you exposed her. Maybe it's payback. 




MAJDEATH said:


> It took me about 6 months to work thru the issue involving the practice of her inviting the OM and me to go out together. I was able to finally come to terms and understand that she did this because subconsciously she wanted something to give and for the relationship with the OM to be discovered, but her conscious mind could not just openly confess.
> Instead she waits 11 yrs to tell me.


MAJDEATH with all do respect you need to get a different counselor someone who can help you with your magic thinking. You sound delusional. I am not trying to insult you but there is a reason where most of the people here are telling you that your perception is just wrong. (oh and jld is happy for you) I see you posting on other threads and you give good advice. 

Dude she probably invited the other man because he wanted her to and it made the sex more exciting. People who behave like your SO did are cruel and reckless. It all feeds into their narcissism.

I know this is painful to you but if you stay with this woman you are only going to get hurt again. There is something very wrong with her. She really is a narcissist. She is the kind of woman who would write a magazine article about how she cheated on her husband. 

Listen to yourself, you blame yourself for this woman absolutely totally disrespecting you in ever way. She even has you hang out with her affair partner. I won't continue but I ask you to truly ponder this one question. *Is it possible that you have been beaten down by this woman so harshly that you are not seeing things clearly? * You said she was a councilor herself meaning she has some training which she could use to manipulate you with. Were you also the person whose wife counseled when she was having an affair? Was that you? 

I think your story is one of the saddest on here actually. It is really hard to reconcile it with the advice you give others. I think maybe you have given up on yourself or something.

I may be wrong and if I am then this book will prove it, but I don't think I am, please read it just so you can be sure.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> I know I said I wouldn't post but you didn't answer my question. Did she ask you first if she could write the book or did she just decide to write it, and in the process have to come clean about everything because she has been lying to you all this time? If it is the later then she decided that your suffering wasn't worth her not having the ability to make money, and receive accolades. In fact your suffering will be one of the main subjects of the book. Nice. That doesn't sound like a spouse that is committed R to me. Sounds likes she is doing what she has always done, which is whatever the hell she wants. Did she decide to do it after you exposed her. Maybe it's payback.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She did talk to me about writing the book and described having a chapter where she talks about the mistakes she has made regarding our relationship and how she has learned from that experience. Her other reasons for finally coming clean were: she believed it had been long enough time that she was sure I wouldn't leave her and; there was a good chance that I might run into this particular OM who was very toxic at the end of their time together.

I will check out the book you recommended. But based on her personality and behavioral traits back then before she had stabilized medication, I wouldn't agree with narcissism, but more borderline personality disorder (BPD) and ADHD. Combining untreated BPD and long-term abandonment was a toxic combination that contributed to her serial relationships outside of marriage. But even untreated, many individuals with BPD experience a big decrease in their impulsive behavior in their 40’s, behavior such as substance or alcohol abuse, eating disorders, unprotected sex or indiscriminate sex with multiple partners, reckless spending, and reckless driving. Impulsive behavior may also include leaving jobs or relationships, running away, and self-injury. She experienced almost all of these sysmptoms.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> It took me about 6 months to work thru the issue involving the practice of her inviting the OM and me to go out together. *I was able to finally come to terms and understand that she did this because subconsciously she wanted something to give and for the relationship with the OM to be discovered*, but her conscious mind could not just openly confess.
> Instead she waits 11 yrs to tell me.


That's one way to interpret it. Using Occam's Razor, the simpler solution is that she REALLY enjoyed having the 2 men in her lives together to fuel her ego. Over time people may have a change of heart upon deeper reflection, but at that moment, the "subconscious need" to get caught by her husband was not on her radar. It's bullsh!t.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I like the fact that you are working towards the inevitable conclusion of all this soul searching and examination of your WW's motivations.

It's only a matter of time. We will rejoice with you on that day when it comes.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Banned-It.45 said:


> I like the fact that you are working towards the inevitable conclusion of all this soul searching and examination of your WW's motivations.
> 
> It's only a matter of time. We will rejoice with you on that day when it comes.


What conclusion would that be?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Banned-It.45 said:


> I like the fact that you are working towards the inevitable conclusion of all this soul searching and examination of your WW's motivations.
> 
> It's only a matter of time. We will rejoice with you on that day when it comes.


We had a long discussion last night, and there were some breakthroughs. Of course, my mind movies are much worse than the reality of the situation, and it helps to hear the truth. 

My FWW is a giving person, and the OM who was the primary relationship in her life at that time wanted this, and she wanted to make him happy because she cared. I'm sorry if this causes triggers for other BS, but it is the truth. And truth is the path to recovery.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP do you understand that the only reason she came clean is because she knew she knew there would be no repercussions and that she was trying to avoid you running into the OM. She wanted to make sure she could have her cake and eat it to. She is a narcissist and only cares about herself. She views you as nothing more than a chapter in her book of life. I know this is hard to hear but if I were you I would leave. If things didn't turn toxic at the end of their affair would she even have stopped. She probably loved this guy and was willing to give him things that she wasn't willing to give you. You gotta leave her man. Stop giving her all the power. Men on this site give their wives WAY to much power of them. It's sickening to be honest. You can do better my friend.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

niceguy28 said:


> OP do you understand that the only reason she came clean is because she knew she knew there would be no repercussions and that she was trying to avoid you running into the OM. She wanted to make sure she could have her cake and eat it to. She is a narcissist and only cares about herself. She views you as nothing more than a chapter in her book of life. I know this is hard to hear but if I were you I would leave. If things didn't turn toxic at the end of their affair would she even have stopped. She probably loved this guy and was willing to give him things that she wasn't willing to give you. You gotta leave her man. Stop giving her all the power. Men on this site give their wives WAY to much power of them. It's sickening to be honest. You can do better my friend.


I appreciate the post and perspective.

We could have continued on the rest of our lives without her ever telling me, but she made a choice, I just wish it had been sooner. I understand her reasons why, but I don't agree with waiting.

She would do almost anything for me, as demonstrated in a life altering event that occurred several years ago. She stayed when most other wives would have been gone, and I give her credit for that.

Are your relationships constant power struggles? Do you control her actions with the constant threat of departure. "If you do this, I will leave. If you don't do this, I will leave." Sounds like a sad life to me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate the post and perspective.
> 
> We could have continued on the rest of our lives without her ever telling me, but she made a choice, I just wish it had been sooner. I understand her reasons why, but I don't agree with waiting.
> 
> ...


MJ the reason he is saying to do this is not because this is how he thinks marriage should work but because of how awful you wife has treated you. His point is that she was never really honest with you until she wanted to be for selfish reasons (her book).

He is right if it wasn't for wanting to write that book she would not even have told you about this stuff. Though I am mostly against R. even I know this is not how R is supposed to work. That is what they call rug-sweeping. 

How do you know you have the full truth?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > I appreciate the post and perspective.
> ...


I suppose I will never know the full truth. In another forum the topic was about how much information do you give a new partner. Do women tell Mr. Right everything about their previous boyfriends/husbands, or only what they think they should or need to?

In my case I did reach out to the OM, OMW, and/or mutual friends to verify the answers to my questions from my W's previous relationships. The answers were very consistent, even when I did not reveal the answers my W gave.

The key take away from your post is "how awful your wife has treated you". That should read "how awful your wife used to treat you".


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I suppose I will never know the full truth. In another forum the topic was about how much information do you give a new partner. Do women tell Mr. Right everything about their previous boyfriends/husbands, or only what they think they should or need to?
> 
> In my case I did reach out to the OM, OMW, and/or mutual friends to verify the answers to my questions from my W's previous relationships. The answers were very consistent, even when I did not reveal the answers my W gave.
> 
> The key take away from your post is "how awful your wife has treated you". That should read "how awful your wife used to treat you".


Sorry but I feel like choosing to write that book without even asking you is still pretty awful.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

sokillme said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose I will never know the full truth. In another forum the topic was about how much information do you give a new partner. Do women tell Mr. Right everything about their previous boyfriends/husbands, or only what they think they should or need to?
> ...


Perhaps I misstated it earlier, but she did ask me about her book on relationships. And she did mention that one chapter would explore the lessons learned from our past history, including the infidelity parts.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate the post and perspective.
> 
> We could have continued on the rest of our lives without her ever telling me, but she made a choice, I just wish it had been sooner. I understand her reasons why, but I don't agree with waiting.
> 
> ...


My marriage is FAR FAR from perfect but I don't have power struggles like that. At the end of the day OP you know your wife better than any of us. You know her smile, her touch, her soul. If you are truly happy then ignore what a lot of us have said but if deep down you are not then I think we are giving you some good advice. As for the mind movies, those will probably never go away but it will get better with time. Also keep in mind that your wife was probably not a virgin when you married her so it's not like she's never been "railed" by somebody else.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

niceguy28 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > I appreciate the post and perspective.
> ...


True, she had boyfriends before I first met her so I suppose the 4 OM from when we were married but separated could go into the same category: others I have known when my hubby wasn't in the picture.

And that 1 mind movie I have left has greatly decreased in frequency over the last 6 months as we review/clarify the old problems and how they related to our behaviors at that time. I agree with Dr. Harley about being totally honest about past history so that your partner can now trust you to be honest in the present and the future.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

MAJDEATH said:


> Perhaps I misstated it earlier, but she did ask me about her book on relationships. And she did mention that one chapter would explore the lessons learned from our past history, including the infidelity parts.


You seem to choose your words very carefully. That she asked you about the book or told you what would be in it is vague at best. You have not clearly stated if she asked for your permission to write it or if you gave it. 

You don't owe anyone an answer, but if you are going to answer you might as well answer directly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

zookeeper said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps I misstated it earlier, but she did ask me about her book on relationships. And she did mention that one chapter would explore the lessons learned from our past history, including the infidelity parts.
> ...


She doesnt ask me for permission for every article, blog, or book she writes. What is it you want to know? Her publisher and attorney are well versed in the legal requirements to use someone's name or likeness in a publication, and a release and compensation arrangement would be required.

She is not using my name or likeness, and she publishes under a pen name. The reason she discussed this with me is because close friends and family also read her books. Most of them already know our history, but there may be some revealing details. She agreed to giving me final review rights of that chapter in writing, but based on her previous novels I don't think it will be a problem. 
She is still grinding out previous chapters and 2 other publications with advances, so it might be awhile.
I hope I answered your question directly. 

That might have been the catalyst to revealing all during D-day last year. She wants to surprise the reader, but not surprise me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> That's one way to interpret it. Using Occam's Razor, the simpler solution is that she REALLY enjoyed having the 2 men in her lives together to fuel her ego. Over time people may have a change of heart upon deeper reflection, but at that moment, the "subconscious need" to get caught by her husband was not on her radar. It's bullsh!t.


Using Occam's Razor there's an even more simple explanation for the "I want you and OM/OW to be friends."

The WS loves their spouse. They also love their AP, too.

They know what they like/love about their spouse and their AP. And they think that their spouse and their AP would like those things, too!

So, why wouldn't the WS want their spouse and AP to meet? After all, aren't they both splendid people? 

And the WS just *knows* that they will love each other, as they are the two most splendid people in the whole wide world and they know they will be the bestest of friends in the whole, wide world, ever!

Listen! Isn't that the sound of a cute little Unicorn foal?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Yes, I try real hard to understand the motivations behind my W wanting the OM and I to be friends. And as for the love part, wasn't there an 80s song by Ray Parker Jr. called "I'm in love, with the other woman"?


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> How would I or anyone in my position know the complete truth? *How would you know if an "I don't recall", or "I wasn't planning it", or "it was his idea" answer is really true or not?
> *
> And even if I spoke with the other party (in this case I did not), who's to say that he would tell the truth and how do you prove it?


Polygraph?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Wolfman1968 said:


> Polygraph?


As a former LE officer, I can't even begin to tell you just how inaccurate or non-conclusive polygraph examinations are. And my W would refuse to take one, unless it was the only option to stop D proceedings.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I have an idea. Take your wife somewhere where it is semi public, maybe go behind a landscape planter, or down into a basement entrance, pull down her pants and panties, handcuff her to a stair rail and then walk away and leave her. 

Call in an anonymous call to the police and tell them a strange woman is exposing herself in a semi public place. 

That should even the two of you up.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I have an idea. Take your wife somewhere where it is semi public, maybe go behind a landscape planter, or down into a basement entrance, pull down her pants and panties, handcuff her to a stair rail and then walk away and leave her.
> 
> Call in an anonymous call to the police and tell them a strange woman is exposing herself in a semi public place.
> 
> That should even the two of you up.


:lol: 


If it were only legal. :laugh:


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> :lol:
> 
> 
> If it were only legal. :laugh:


Meh...

Couple of days in jail.. It would be worth it. It would go far to end the mind movies.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Meh...
> 
> Couple of days in jail.. It would be worth it. It would go far to end the mind movies.


Gotta watch out for payback. 

I don't know if it's possible to end them completely. I hope it is. I have some bad triggers.

My guess is that Maj. doing what he wants will help. Usually, the mind movies are much more exciting than reality. 

Sex outside? Meh. I did it with first wife and got caught by a woman. She just stood there looking at us and talking about safe sex. This was a very long time ago. Probably before some of the posters in this thread were born. 

It was embarrassing and made me very angry. I kept going and told her to take a hike so I could finish, or she could watch. First wife giggled under me. 

The woman left. 

Better would have been to not get caught. It wasn't that great of an experience. It messed up the mood. 

The idea of getting caught was much more fun than actually getting caught. 

Do your thing because you want to, and not because you want to best or better someone. It's more fun.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You know how cheaters do trickle truth?

Maj is doing trickle TAMing. One story about his wife's shenanigans at a time. I can't keep track of all these threads.


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## niceguy28 (May 6, 2016)

OP sorry if this question has already been asked but have you ever asked her what she would think if you had your own affairw? Maybe you should tell her that you have some chapter that you want to write in your own book that don't involve her. I'm not saying this is right at all but you getting some on the side yourself would probably go a long way in getting rid of those mind movies. This might hurt a little OP but you keep saying that she's a giver and that she wanted to "help" this guy. If that's the case why didn't she choose to "help" her husband and become a better wife. Don't buy her bs man. Nobody has an affair and has sex in public places because they feel sorry for somebody and want to help them. Has she had any real consequences for what she did or are you the only one who has had to pay any price for this?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

niceguy28 said:


> OP sorry if this question has already been asked but have you ever asked her what she would think if you had your own affairw? Maybe you should tell her that you have some chapter that you want to write in your own book that don't involve her. I'm not saying this is right at all but you getting some on the side yourself would probably go a long way in getting rid of those mind movies. This might hurt a little OP but you keep saying that she's a giver and that she wanted to "help" this guy. If that's the case why didn't she choose to "help" her husband and become a better wife. Don't buy her bs man. Nobody has an affair and has sex in public places because they feel sorry for somebody and want to help them. Has she had any real consequences for what she did or are you the only one who has had to pay any price for this?


I wasn't around when she did these things, so I will never know of it was for fun or something else, but she freely admitted to participating, albeit long after I decided to get back together. I also had a couple of female relationships while we were separated.
What helps to suppress the mind movies is remembering the couple of times we made love in the green grass next to the football stadium back in college. So you see her experience with the OM might have been her attempt to reminisce about our time together in a semi-public place, 10 yrs before.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> You know how cheaters do trickle truth?
> 
> Maj is doing trickle TAMing. One story about his wife's shenanigans at a time. I can't keep track of all these threads.


Separate issues require separate threads?


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