# A poll for the ladies: Kids vs Relationships



## Helicon (May 22, 2011)

Which do you consider to be more important and why?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Relationship. My husband will be here long after my kids leave. Plus I believe the biggest gift I can give to my kids is a happy marriage.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

magnoliagal said:


> Relationship. My husband will be here long after my kids leave. Plus I believe the biggest gift I can give to my kids is a happy marriage.


Very, very, well said.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Relationship. My husband will be here long after my kids leave. Plus I believe the biggest gift I can give to my kids is a happy marriage.


:iagree:


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Kids. They are my future--when I am old, my partner will be old. Maybe dead. Maybe he'll have already left. My kids will be my kids forever.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

what magnolia says. If your marriage comes first there is no way your kids wouldn't benefit from that. Putting the marriage first IS putting the kids first.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> Relationship. My husband will be here long after my kids leave. Plus I believe the biggest gift I can give to my kids is a happy marriage.


This.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Helicon said:


> Which do you consider to be more important and why?


I used to put my kids before my husband.  I believe my struggle with secondary infertility spanning almost 7 long years *enhanced* my doting on them -when they started coming one after the other in my 30's- I was just SO overwhelmed with thankfulness to get pregnant after all that trying/praying/striving, I just lavished them with SO much time & attention, husband took a hit in the affection department. I Knew he was always there of coarse, but I seriously took him for granted, I was not smelling the roses of marital love, but New MOMMY love. 

And he just let me do it! He LET me put them in the bed with us! Never complained. Stupid :slap: Stupid :slap: stupid :slap: - both of us. 

Love my kids, but I was missing alot along the way in loosing site of "my anchor" during those years. We NEVER took a little vacation for just the 2 of us until after we had our 6 children. This is rediculous looking back. *Every married couple needs to get out alone once in a while, keep things fresh, discover new things about each other. * 

I recall a time we went out to eat, an Aunt insisted on Babysitting for us, and I remember thinking "What on earth do we talk about"! We were so used to talking about "the kids", where to take them, planning huge birthday parties, what to buy them, build them, how to make their life more fun/enjoyable, I seriously lost site of *US*. 

Biggest mistake of my marraige.  Now I would like to get rid of them all. No, just kidding!!! But (now) I most enjoy planning little excursions for just the 2 of us and leaving the rug rats at home! We are making up for lost time. 

*WHY?* Because I do not want to be a parent who lives through my children. I have my own life, they have theirs. Me & their father are here to help them learn & grow, avoid the bigger mistakes in life, encourage them in all things good, encourage healthy friendships, to find their own nitch -their passions, to stand on their own 2 feet as a responsible citizen, worker & parent themselves one day. 

Ultimately they will meet the love of their life and we will stand at their wedding and cry that it all went so fast but this is what is meant to be. We know our place. These things I must accept. 

It is a great blessing & honor to have children, but to put them before our spouses invites alot of heartache to the spouse who is feeling on the back burner, it even hurts the children we emotionally *crowd* with our over-protectiveness or expectations to be there -for us, when we need to slowly "let go", so they can find their own wings.


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## surfergirl (Jan 27, 2011)

Helicon said:


> Which do you consider to be more important and why?


I consider them equally important....I don't get the one or the other thing at all. 

Sometimes my children have the greater need for my attention and sometimes my partner does - responding to either one of them does not mean the other is less important than the other. I've made a point of making sure that my children and partner know & understand that.


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## nader (May 4, 2011)

A phrase that I keep hearing is,

'Your children are welcome members of your household, but not the center of it.' 

I believe that the sooner kids learn that everything does not revolve around themselves, the better adjusted they will be in life.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Relationship. My husband will be here long after my kids leave. Plus I believe the biggest gift I can give to my kids is a happy marriage.


:iagree: I wish my parents could see that. Their miserable marriage was fraught with cheating and abuse...I was so scared to get married from watching them. So far, so good.

Children live what they learn!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I have heard this expressed several times and it has really stuck with me, particularly given if you are a man that has been utterly deprioritized in a relaltionship.

"Women get married to have children. Men get married to have a wife."

I certainly realize that isn't the case for everyone, and I love being a father, but my wife was the one I imagined spending a lifetime with, not my kids. So, consequently? I have a hard time imagining setting myself up to become deprioritized for a second time, were I to remarry.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I have heard this expressed several times and it has really stuck with me, particularly given if you are a man that has been utterly deprioritized in a relaltionship.
> 
> "Women get married to have children. Men get married to have a wife."
> 
> I certainly realize that isn't the case for everyone, and I love being a father, but my wife was the one I imagined spending a lifetime with, not my kids. So, consequently? I have a hard time imagining setting myself up to become deprioritized for a second time, were I to remarry.


Children were a very very important part of the marriage decision for me. But the husband is by no means some means to an end. Presumably the kids are important to both parents. Something to be shared rather than to conflict over.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

And... the kids job is to ultimately grow up and LEAVE the nest as self sufficient people. They won't need Mommy wiping their butts when they are 20. Whom will I go on vacation with if I don't have DH?


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I used to put my kids before my husband.  I believe my struggle with secondary infertility spanning almost 7 long years *enhanced* my doting on them -when they started coming one after the other in my 30's- I was just SO overwhelmed with thankfulness to get pregnant after all that trying/praying/striving, I just lavished them with SO much time & attention, husband took a hit in the affection department. I Knew he was always there of coarse, but I seriously took him for granted, I was not smelling the roses of marital love, but New MOMMY love.
> 
> And he just let me do it! He LET me put them in the bed with us! Never complained. Stupid :slap: Stupid :slap: stupid :slap: - both of us.
> 
> ...


:iagree: My parents chased me away with their smothering. I was not allowed to have a private life or become an adult. They insisted on treating me like a child, using my gender as the reason. "You are not one of the boys. You are a girl and you cannot look after yourself like the boys can."  

I left when I was 21 because I felt so stifled and overprotected; I couldn't even take the subway when I was 20, because I wasn't allowed. I had to leave home to gain street smarts, whereas my brothers could come and go as they pleased. NEVER USE GENDER BIAS IN PARENTING OR YOUR DAUGHTERS WILL RESENT YOU! Only stupid people try to clip their daughter's wings, just because she is female.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Relationship.


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I have heard this expressed several times and it has really stuck with me, particularly given if you are a man that has been utterly deprioritized in a relaltionship.
> 
> "Women get married to have children. Men get married to have a wife."
> 
> I certainly realize that isn't the case for everyone, and I love being a father, but my wife was the one I imagined spending a lifetime with, not my kids. So, consequently? I have a hard time imagining setting myself up to become deprioritized for a second time, were I to remarry.


I've heard that saying too. It seems like the woman is usually much more gung ho about having children.

I feel sorry for men who wanted to wait to have kids, only to be tricked into fatherhood by women who don't take their pills or poke holes in condoms. That is so unfair! Women like that tend to be very smug about their "unplanned" pregnancy. "I got pregnant on the pill!" Yeah, that will happen if you do not take them properly. 

Some hore tried to do that to my brother; trap him with a baby so that he would marry her. He had enough sense to leave her ass, because she was abusive and classless. Now the fool has two kids for two different men at 25...disgusting!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I have heard this expressed several times and it has really stuck with me, particularly given if you are a man that has been utterly deprioritized in a relaltionship.
> 
> "Women get married to have children. Men get married to have a wife."
> 
> I certainly realize that isn't the case for everyone, and I love being a father, but my wife was the one I imagined spending a lifetime with, not my kids. So, consequently? I have a hard time imagining setting myself up to become deprioritized for a second time, were I to remarry.


Deej,

Having just realized I was deprioritized for the "second" time, your words cut like a knife.

Wise man.


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## Helicon (May 22, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> Relationship. My husband will be here long after my kids leave. Plus I believe the biggest gift I can give to my kids is a happy marriage.


I wish my wife thought the way you do.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Helicon said:


> I wish my wife thought the way you do.


First off I'm not like most women. I don't even have that many friends because of that fact. Secondly in my world most women I know absolutely put their kids first. In fact their husbands become just another kid to them. They say this to me in conversation.

I consider myself to be pretty intelligent. My thinking is that one day my kids absolutely WILL leave me. They will marry, get jobs, have their own kids and I will be an afterthought. I mean yes if I'm lucky they will still want me to be in their life but it is not guaranteed. My husband on the other hand said I do to being married forever. By the time my kids are grown I've still got probably 30 more years to spend with this man.

I don't want to become an empty nester and not even know him. I want to be able to cherish that time once the kids are grown. To be able to take vacations, talk, stay up all night just because, to spend time together alone that kind of thing. To accomplish that means starting now not waiting until the kids no longer need me. That's not fair to either of us.

BTW most of my friends already have walk a way wife syndrome. Once the kids are grown they are outta there. They can't stand their husbands. Sad really.


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## Duke (May 15, 2011)

Helicon said:


> I wish my wife thought the way you do.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Helicon (May 22, 2011)

nader said:


> A phrase that I keep hearing is,
> 
> 'Your children are welcome members of your household, but not the center of it.'
> 
> I believe that the sooner kids learn that everything does not revolve around themselves, the better adjusted they will be in life.


Excellent quote!


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## Helicon (May 22, 2011)

You reap what you sow when it comes to relationships. I think women use this as a tool just to 'stick it' to their husbands. Kids shouldn't be used as pawns to get under someone's skin. That causes the worst kind of resentment. Any woman who does this shouldn't expect their marriage to last very long. My wife does this to me on a daily basis. Our son is 18 and still lives at home (so does my daughter who is 20). At dinner time it's always what our son wants to eat, nevermind the fact that he doesn't work and I'm out breaking my a** putting in a hard day every day. Whenever she goes grocery shopping it's always what our son wants. She NEVER asks me what I want. She serves on our kids hand and foot (and even makes up their dinner plates for them) and I have to fend for myself. She won't even watch TV with me anymore, except for one night I was watching a movie and my daughter and her boyfriend happened to be watching with me, then she comes in and watches with us. She only did it because they were there or else she would've just stayed on her facebook page where she normally is all night long. That's what I mean by 'sticking it'.


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## Helicon (May 22, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> BTW most of my friends already have walk a way wife syndrome. Once the kids are grown they are outta there. They can't stand their husbands. Sad really.


This is the way my wife thinks, only she's trying to neglect me to the point where 'I' leave. She once said to me when we were younger, 'I don't leave guys, I get them to leave me'. I never forgot when she told me that and it's been 30 years. Stuff like that just sticks in your head. Why I stayed with her and had kids with her I'll never know. I never felt like she really loved me. I think she thought I was all she could get. All her boyfriends prior to me dumped her. I was the only fool who stayed because I was pu**y whipped at the time. She gave me all the sex I wanted and I just ate it up. Now we don't have sex at all anymore.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Helicon said:


> This is the way my wife thinks, only she's trying to neglect me to the point where 'I' leave.


Yep. My best friend is in the early stage as her kids are little. She prays her husband will get a job that requires him to travel...A LOT. He annoys her and at the moment I'm not sure he sees it. He clings looking for any crumbs of affection she throws his way. Pathetic really. I cringe listening to her talk about him. I'm mentally sending him the message to man up before it's too late.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Yep. My best friend is in the early stage as her kids are little. She prays her husband will get a job that requires him to travel...A LOT. He annoys her and at the moment I'm not sure he sees it. He clings looking for any crumbs of affection she throws his way. Pathetic really. I cringe listening to her talk about him. I'm mentally sending him the message to man up before it's too late.


Does he do message boards?

Send him our way.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Secondly in my world most women I know absolutely put their kids first. In fact their husbands become just another kid to them. They say this to me in conversation.
> 
> BTW most of my friends already have walk a way wife syndrome. Once the kids are grown they are outta there. They can't stand their husbands. Sad really.


Do they realize their role in it?


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Do they realize their role in it?


Only my best friend because we are close enough that I can tell her. She's done well (with my help) with dealing with her moody, angry husband but he's not working to meet her halfway. You know that this won't work if only one works to change. She still messes up sometimes but is trying.

I had kids late in life so most of my friends are much younger than me. Most are quite clueless that they are contributing to their marital problems. Affairs, drinking, fights, you name it I get to hear it. Sad really. They are all in their mid 30's. Kids are young. Most of these women are already self medicating with anti-depressants to cope. I'm quite shocked that this is what goes on behind many closed doors. I hear I have the most healthy marriage around and yet I'm here on TAM. LOL!!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Does he do message boards?
> 
> Send him our way.


I wish I could but I am not touching that with a 10 foot pole. He's got issues that go beyond this board. He needs professional help and sadly he doesn't see it. I actually feel sorry for him. He's depressed and has no idea.


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## JLynnMann (Apr 6, 2011)

I also admit to putting my children first early on, in my younger years. To be honest I still feel my husband at that time (ex now) deserved less than that. 
He was mentally and emotionally abusive to myself and the kids from time to time if I didn't step in and defend them. This led to bad feelings between him and I.
My current husband has my heart. He is number 1 in my life but this does not in any way belittle my relationship with my children. I LOVE my children! 
My children will carry my lessons and part of me on into the future but my own immediate future lies with my husband. He is the one I wll need and depend on and lean on now and when my children are grown and gone.
He will be the one to make decisions on my care and I his when we are older. We will be the ones growing old together and sharing every bit of our lives.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

i started a thread similar to this...and i was read the riot act by some...but i was a newbie so i might have started off on the wrong foot....

but i up my husband first, we were here before the kids, now im not saying he eats before them, or get medicall treatment first...but in everyday life its him.

the kids will leave soon, and it will just be the two of us. i need him to want to stay with me as his wife, and just because im a mom now dosent mean the kids wont need me was they become adults, but i wont be a main staple in their lives.

they will have to live their own lives, and make their own friends, and make their own decisions that they think are best. 

i had kids young, so most of the parents i know are older, and they seem to be going through the same things the two of us went through in our early years.

my husband once tod me age dosent matter, its relationship time, you could be 40/45 and make the same good/bad/indifferent decisions in year 1, 2, 10, or 20.

we went through our own wars and earned our stripes, we are getting close to 20 year mark...and have not stopped running our mouths yet. were young enough to be old, and old enough to be young...

kids are special, but you cant live through them, they will leave and walk on their own two legs, and if you try and live their lives for them they will run off at the first chance they get, weather its with a bad boyfriend or clear across the country.

you got married to have a paartner and a best friend of whom will always be there for you, they will understand for the babies, but when they walk, talk, and start school its time for their independance to start. time for life to get back to "normal".

we all need to feel love and affection from our spouse, some of us will weather out the storm, but if the shore isnt in sight, whats the point??
just my thoughts...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I am literally shocked at the lack of commitment I see.

"Take it or leave it" results in "leaving it" once you've had your fill.

Any number of people "could be" suitable partners for almost anyone. It boggles the mind that those with good partners don't get this.





magnoliagal said:


> Only my best friend because we are close enough that I can tell her. She's done well (with my help) with dealing with her moody, angry husband but he's not working to meet her halfway. You know that this won't work if only one works to change. She still messes up sometimes but is trying.
> 
> I had kids late in life so most of my friends are much younger than me. Most are quite clueless that they are contributing to their marital problems. Affairs, drinking, fights, you name it I get to hear it. Sad really. They are all in their mid 30's. Kids are young. Most of these women are already self medicating with anti-depressants to cope. I'm quite shocked that this is what goes on behind many closed doors. I hear I have the most healthy marriage around and yet I'm here on TAM. LOL!!


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Conrad said:


> I am literally shocked at the lack of commitment I see.
> 
> "Take it or leave it" results in "leaving it" once you've had your fill.
> 
> Any number of people "could be" suitable partners for almost anyone. It boggles the mind that those with good partners don't get this.


In that circle of my life it's like wisteria lane off desperate housewives. No joke. 

And it's not just the marriages that are unhealthy it's the kids too. Many of these kids are already medicated. Yes I know some really do need it I just find it suspicious that it's so many these days and I look back at the parents and see toxic behavior in them too. It's just sad.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> In that circle of my life it's like wisteria lane off desperate housewives. No joke.
> 
> And it's not just the marriages that are unhealthy it's the kids too. Many of these kids are already medicated. Yes I know some really do need it I just find it suspicious that it's so many these days and I look back at the parents and see toxic behavior in them too. It's just sad.


Impetuous instant gratification passed on from generation to generation.

Got a problem? Take a pill.

I remember how the glitterati gasped when Tom Cruise called a spade a spade.

Notice how much work he's gotten lately.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Impetuous instant gratification passed on from generation to generation.
> 
> Got a problem? Take a pill.
> 
> ...


Exactly and it's why I don't have many friends. I'm outspoken like yes Tom Cruise. People generally don't like what I have to say but in my close circle I call it as I see it. I'm working on keeping my mouth shut more but it's hard. Hard for me to just nod my head and be sympathetic to little johnny's meds not working as well as they did in the beginning. Or my best friend saying she needs to up her dosage because hers isn't working so well now either (I told her they don't work forever unless you truly do have a chemical imbalance). 

There is no magic pill for life's ups and downs.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

There is, but it's called self-discipline.

I see you as a bit of a kindred spirit Magnolia. Of course, now that I've ruined your day, I'll share one thing it took me a helluva long time to "get".

I don't have many friends either. And, it seemed that the close friends I accumulated would eventually fail me. What I realized is that this active mind I have between my ears is like Occam's Razor. It cuts both ways.

I work as hard as I possibly can to understand "why" things are as they are. So, when someone disagreed with me, I took the "normal" path of bringing all my insight to the table and showing them why I was right. My friends labeled this the "courage of my convictions". Of course, until they disagreed with me about something important.... then I'm pretty sure it came across as disrespect.

It deflates the spirit to have someone completely crowd your opinion out of a discussion. As you may suspect, it took someone I really cared about doing that to me regularly for this thickheaded German to tune into that channel.





magnoliagal said:


> Exactly and it's why I don't have many friends. I'm outspoken like yes Tom Cruise. People generally don't like what I have to say but in my close circle I call it as I see it. I'm working on keeping my mouth shut more but it's hard. Hard for me to just nod my head and be sympathetic to little johnny's meds not working as well as they did in the beginning. Or my best friend saying she needs to up her dosage because hers isn't working so well now either (I told her they don't work forever unless you truly do have a chemical imbalance).
> 
> There is no magic pill for life's ups and downs.


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

we are a blended family . one daughter from my first marriage..two sons from his. Our eldest son has recently moved home with us with very little notice. We had all the kids thru the teen years except the youngest went to live with his other mother, but is home every weekend with us. 

SO. to answer the question. The kids will always be our kids, but we as a couple come first. period. Now don't get me wrong, we love our children and will do anything we can to help them, but the best gift we can give them is living the example of a happy marriage. Even a couple of years ago when we went thru a difficult time, we never told the kids (guess I should have seen that as hope that my husband wanted to work things out..may have saved me many sleepless nights lol..hindsight) 

point. we just booked a september two week holiday to punta cana. We were just there in january and also feb. It is our fav place on the planet. Youngest son (18, lives with bio mom) got upset and said...AGAIN..?? You know I need my licence and a car..so I suppose you won't be able to afford to help me out right?? vacations are more important! 

Our response? YUP our vacations TOGETHER are more important. If you need dental that is not covered ...or schooling if you would ever get off your but and attend school normally..then that will take precedence over our alone time vacations..but a car? GET A JOB. like your brother and sister did when they were fourteen!!! oh ya. they have cars..and cell phones..and can eat at a restaurant without having to ask for "allowance"..ya. it went over like a ton of bricks..hahaha..:rofl:

So yes. Hubby wins in the kids vs relationships. As long as he is a good father and I am a good mother, there is no reason that we should not be each others number one.

Lynn


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Conrad I meant there is no pill that you can take of course there are solutions to life but they require more effort than just swallowing. You have not ruined my day at all. I'm sitting by the pool happier than I have ever been. I feel enlightened. 

On the friends I am starting to get the same thing you got. I am finding in my own peace I have less of a need to be right. I am more accepting of others choices in life and have more empathy and less judgement. Gotta love therapy to fix that part of me. I think now I will have more friends. I make people happy to be in my company just because I am happy and positive. Far cry from what people used to say about me. Lol!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

blacksand...sorry but I do not agree. Yes the kids will be gone at some point..but what will you have in common at that point? I guess it could work if you still make time for each other..if not..one or BOTH of you will loose interest..


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

We sound like kindred spirits.

What's really great is that giving credit to yourself is now somehow "enough".

I never imagined it could be.



magnoliagal said:


> Conrad I meant there is no pill that you can take of course there are solutions to life but they require more effort than just swallowing. You have not ruined my day at all. I'm sitting by the pool happier than I have ever been. I feel enlightened.
> 
> On the friends I am starting to get the same thing you got. I am finding in my own peace I have less of a need to be right. I am more accepting of others choices in life and have more empathy and less judgement. Gotta love therapy to fix that part of me. I think now I will have more friends. I make people happy to be in my company just because I am happy and positive. Far cry from what people used to say about me. Lol!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

BlackSand said:


> I have fought the battle to spend time just the 2 of us. We have started to on a regular basis, just a couple of hours a week. But I am sick and tired of being the one who pushes for this or dates. Oh well, I guess that is my role in this marriage!


you are right. both have to want it. I hope it works out for you.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Conrad said:


> We sound like kindred spirits.
> 
> What's really great is that giving credit to yourself is now somehow "enough".
> 
> I never imagined it could be.


Kindred spirits yes. I get that happiness and peace aren't something to be obtained or sought after it resides within me already. I feel free. I never thought I'd get it but I have. Before coming on TAM I believe I still was caught up in expecting my husband to fulfill some need in me. I now see I can be happy without sucking him dry or trying to change him. I love him as he is and no longer feel the need to "improve" him.

Freedom, peace and happiness are truly beautiful things.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

BlackSand said:


> My wife has a point, the kids will be gone in 10 years so we need to concentrate on them right now. Since she has gone back to work(career, not work) + kids = little energy left for me. Consists of some TV late at night. Sex still there but with all the plates she has spinning it is maintenance sex. Kids are way too dependent on Mom for everything.


Disagree wholeheartedly on all this. 

Are you one of the plates she's spinning or did she drop you already?


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

magnoliagal said:


> Disagree wholeheartedly on all this.
> 
> Are you one of the plates she's spinning or did she drop you already?


right on point (god you are blunt..lol)

but I agree. totally.


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