# One year of marital hell!



## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Background: I am nearly 24 years old. I met my husband, who is 6 years older than me, through a mutual family friend two years ago in May of 2010, We met virtually before I finally met him in person (he lived in another state.) I wouldnt say I fell in love with him (I had been in love before), but I definitely developed strong feelings. We got along really well, we come from the same cultural background, speak the same languages, have similar religious and political beliefs, similar values, neither of our parents are divorced and we are both educated. I figured from a "scientific" perspective, this union looked really promising. 

Eitherway, Our communication problems started after 9-10 months of being together (we were legally married). He was growing distant and he wasn't calling/texting as frequently and was taking too long to reply to my texts. I tried talking to him about it, I told him how important it was for me that we maintain communication throughout the day, and that he would need to let me know if he was going to be busy.

Then, things took a turn for the worse when he lost his job the week of the wedding reception in July 2011. We started fighting on our honeymoon, and he was already panicking about the finances. The tension just kept growing after that. He had just bought us new phones, and he spent much of his waking time on the phone even during out trip. It seemed like he wasn't trying to engage me and was using it as a distraction and to avoid intimacy. In the first three months together, we moved three times. At this time I was really homesick and exhausted from the feeling of instability. I got really sick in his home state and developed severe allergies which made things even worse for me. We also continued to fight about finances (Im frugal, but by my standards he's pretty cheap)

I continued to feel that he was emotionally unavailable and felt neglected. I kept looking for jobs too and made that a priority but had no luck finding anything in his state. I found a job back in my home state and moved back in with my parents in mid November 2011.I found an apartment and he moved back in with me in January 2012. Over the next 6 months, he kept going back to visit his family, at times spending 2 weeks away. I was working full time and had a part time job after work 3 days of the week. He complained that he didn't know anyone here etc. I told him that had I found a job in his home state we would've stayed there, but this is where my connections are and this is where I was able to get a job. It just got worse. 

He started spending all day watching the news +tv. He wasn't looking for a job, which made me very resentful.There were times when I'd come home, and everything, him included, would be exactly as I'd left it. There were just very superficial conversation/interactions. He would say that there was nothing to talk about since he's not doing much. He gained a lot of weight (40 pounds). I also put on some weight and so I suggested we go to the gym. I figured he had so much time on his hands he could make that his hobby since he was into working out before, but he didn't. Obviously, our sex life suffered, and on a good week we'd have sex once. It felt like he was "meh" even in bed. He just wasn't enthusiastic about anything, and would often tell me he was tired/sleepy when I initiated. It was extremely frustrating and I stopped getting turned on at all even while having sex, to the point that I avoid having sex with him now. He rarely caresses me unless he wants sex which is infrequent.

At times I would question my expectations because he kept accusing me of being so negative. I would alternate between feeling guilty that I am not more supportive of him and more sensitive to his feelings, and between feeling immense resentment that he was sulking, shutting me out, and behaving like a child/not taking responsibility. One day I suggested we go to couples counseling, and he adamantly refused. 

I felt that I was going crazy, because he kept telling me that I wasn't appreciating what he was doing, that I started to withdraw myself emotionally. I stopped even caring if he made the effort to communicate with me. In the beginning of May I told him we'd either go to counseling or I want a divorce. I said it very calmly, I told him its either or. He told me that if I wanted a divorce I could keep dreaming. I told him well I'm giving you the option.

A few weeks later he was away again, I called him and told him not to come back, that I wanted a separation. He got angry initially then begged and pleaded, told me to give him a chance. I said no. He came back anyway and I caved in. That week, he was so tender and loving. Its like he knew exactly how to touch me and how to talk to me. But I knew we'd go back to the same routine. I kept reminding him about counseling, but he would literally ignore me, or he'd say "why do we need a third party to solve our problems?"

A few weeks before our anniversary I told him I only wanted a card. In my heart, I knew he wasn't going to do it, and I was right. I even reminded him, but he didn't get me a card. I was livid. I was devastated. At this point, I just wanted to leave. I couldn't understand how he would not honor that simple request if he truly loved me (not the first time either.) I then read something online, and realized that a lot of his behavior is passive aggressive. And I think that is one example of many in which I tell him clearly what I want/expect, and he purposely doesn't do it. 

My mother insisted that I don't leave him until we try MC (which he was refusing) and until he started working. I went to a counselor on my own. I told her that I was pretty sure that I wanted a divorce, because of our different mindsets when it comes to money and his inability to show me the affection that I need. Funny thing is, I told him that I went on my own, and he finally agreed to go together. When he agreed, I was disappointed. I had checked out emotionally. The counselor suggested we come either way.

So fast forward to September, and my H started working part time and we have been to at least 6 session of MC together.There has been an improvement, but we are still constantly bickering, he isn't making as big of a change as I need. He also really neglects his health/won't eat well, which bothers me on a daily basis.

The problem is, he is most likely moving back to his home state as he is being offered a job there. I told him several days ago that I am not invested enough at this point to move back with him in addition to the fact that I get severely sick over there. What really scares me is that we fell into a rut less than a year into the marriage, what will happen down the road when responsibilities increase? He said "yeah but how many couples went through what we went through?" I said yes but look at how much it affected our relationship. For me, there is this mental hangup that I cant get past. yes I'm angry and hurt and resentful, and for some reason I cant get past all the hurt. 

Anyway the point is, since I let him know that I'm not moving with him in January, he's been really nice to me, and I don't like it, as I don't think he's accepting my decision and it makes me feel guilty/makes me confused wondering if I should reconsider. My mom keeps telling me that "the devil you know is better than the one you don't" and she scares me when she says I might just find a new spouse but repeat the pattern with him (?), if I even find someone I really like at all. 

Should I not wait to separate and leave now? Or should we continue MC and live together even though I really don't think I want to stay with him anymore? My biggest fear is holding on to those sweet moments and having false hope it will get better when it really won't.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

It sounds as though you know what you want. Are you looking for validation?


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Wow I just realized how LONG my post was. Sorry! 
Yes perhaps I need validation.
I think I am dealing with immense feelings of guilt, especially since he's being so nice to me now. I think he has made me doubt my self a lot, by telling me that I am a negative person and that I don't appreciate the positives, so it has left me feeling unsure if my feelings about him and the marriage are normal


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## frootloop (Dec 20, 2010)

No kids? Then pull the trigger.

You are too young to consider settling.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

We don't have any kids, thank goodness. I think because he's such a "nice guy" my family had a hard time accepting the fact that I was so unhappy. Everyone kept telling me "the first year is the hardest." Can anyone elaborate on how the first year is supposed to be the hardest? 

I also was doubting myself, wondering if I am projecting my unhappiness on him...But I really think I have valid reasons to be unhappy in the marriage. 

He just won't accept the fact that I won't move with him, even though I explained it to him and told him that I want a separation when he moves back. 

Today he mentioned a job opening in his state that he wants me to apply to, I told him I wont be moving there, he's like "that doesn't make sense." I don't get how else to make it clear to him.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Well, they say the first year is the hardest, because for many couples, for a very long time, the first year together was the first time either spouse had lived with someone other than their family, and in the first year the newlyweds are just getting to know what it's like living together. This has become less and less the case in the latter half of the 20th century, especially with many couples having longer courtships and sometimes living together before marriage. Even so, in the first year, you have to adjust your thinking from 'me' to 'we,' and so this can be difficult for many people.

EDIT!!! I definitely don't think Azure's sitch is a "rough first year." I'm just trying to explain what some people mean by "the first year is the hardest."

I apologize for my misleading comment.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

So is this the type of situation where I should rough it out and wait for things to get better? Is the first year supposed to result in this much breakdown in communication and affection? I feel like I am completely out of love with him, so much of what he does just gets under my skin.


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

frootloop said:


> No kids? Then pull the trigger.
> 
> You are too young to consider settling.


:iagree:








_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

1. If he is "being so nice" to you NOW, WHY couldn't he be "so nice" to you all along; he COULD, he just didn't.

2. What is wrong with your mother? I would QUIT TALKING TO HER about your marriage as she seems VERY un-supportive. Better the devil you know...?!? WTF? Wow, what a way to look at a new marriage!

3. Go back to INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING NOW; get a NEW counselor's take on YOU. What are your goals, dreams, aspirations. Does THIS MARRIAGE fit into those goals? If so, what do YOU need to change. If not, then you know you need to pull the plug.

There's NO WAY the first year should be SO DIFFICULT that you feel you are not even in love with your H! I think you two did NOT KNOW EACH OTHER well enough to have gotten married.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Azure said:


> So is this the type of situation where I should rough it out and wait for things to get better? Is the first year supposed to result in this much breakdown in communication and affection? I feel like I am completely out of love with him, so much of what he does just gets under my skin.


No, that's definitely NOT what I'm saying ... I was just trying to explain what other people meant when they say the first year is the hardest. I'm sorry, I should have written more.

I don't think what you're experiencing is the typical "first year." The first year can be the worst, but it's also supposed to be your honeymoon year! You know, when you're supposed to be having sex like bunnies?

I think your husband sounds like a jerk, and I think you may have gotten married before you really knew what he was like. Of course, for a lot of abusers, their real personality doesn't really come out until they have the woman locked down (ie there's a ring on your finger). You deserve better than the treatment you're getting from this guy. A real marriage is supposed to be a partnership; you're supposed to be a team. 

The other posters here have really good advice, especially SlowlyGettingWiser just above this comment.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

FeministInPink, I know you were explaining what people meant by that, I guess I was just trying to understand if my situation would fall under what others classify as a "difficult first year." But I guess not. 

SlowlyGettingWiser thanks for your feedback. You are right, he could have been nicer, but he wasn't. The reason I am feeling so guilty is because everyone kept telling me "give him time, that's what happens when a guy loses his job." I kept making excuses for him, I kept thinking he may be depressed (and I think he is to some degree, though he denied it when I have brought it up.) I do however think he has serious issues with intimacy and communication. Because anytime I would express my frustrations to him he would just shut down even more. He's never even asked "what am I not doing that you need me to do?" I do believe he has different (and much lower expectations) of what a fulfilling relationship looks like. I realized that although his parents are still married, they live very separate lives and show little affection to each other in front of their children, so perhaps to him this is normal.

I love my mom and she's generally my strongest ally, but talking to her does make me more confused. My mom is old school, so initially the idea of getting a divorce really freaked her out, but after she accepted that I am possibly going to leave him she just keeps saying "I don't want you to look back and regret your decision to leave him." I wish it was that simple. Its not one of those clear cut decisions where for example my husband is physically abusive and there really is no other option but to leave. I know that I deserve more love and affection from a spouse, but I hate how I'm made to feel that I'm "running away from my problems" rather than working on them. I just realized in this short marriage that you really cannot change a person unless they want to change, and I'm smarter than to think he's suddenly going to change his habits and become generous and super attentive and affectionate. 

So yes, I do need validation and support that I'm not making an "emotional" or rushed decision


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Anyone have any feedback or insight?

We had a counseling session this week, where I explained again that I wasn't invested enough to move with him. But he simply won't accept it. He has been trying very hard to change my mind. We talked about it again today. I told him it's not even about moving, its about the state of the relationship. He said "well I want to start new and build it up from the ground up. I see this as a great opportunity to do just that" I told him he's gonna be busy with his new job, then he wants to start his phD, he said "I want to fix us first" I told him "I can't pretend I'm happy" and he says "I want the chance to change it." I just don't know anymore. I have no reason to take his word for it, since he's had many opportunities to fix the relationship. I feel like every time he senses that he's losing me, he works really hard at getting me to stay. This leaves me so confused and makes me hurt even more.


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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

Azure said:


> Anyone have any feedback or insight?


I do, but you are not going to like it. I was with FeministinPink before she succumbed to pressure from other posters and diluted her stand.

Look, obviously you have the right to stay or leave and you have the ability to follow through with whatever you decide. Its not as if you are codependent on him. Having said that.........

Your mom sounds like a very wise lady to me. The stuff that you mom is telling you resonates a lot with me and i think you should atleast try to understand where she is coming from. 

Bottom line is your emotional needs aren't being met and he has taken you for granted, well until you bring up separation in which case he is willing to do whatever because he wants to stay with you. I do sympathize with you being in a similar situation where i give a lot of affection to my spouse but get very little in return. At the start it frustrated me but then i realized that some people are unable to give affection. You can't really hold it against them. Maybe it has to do with their upbringing. But this is hardly a reason to end a marriage.

When i read your post it seems very negative, almost as if you are looking for an excuse, any excuse to torpedo your marriage. What you need is MC and have to articulate clearly what you expect from him. He isn't a mind reader. Now as you rightfully pointed out it is not going to last very long if doing it is not in his nature. Reminds me of the HD-LD issue that most people talk about in the SIM section. In such a case some compromise is in order, where he makes an effort to give you affection in the way you desire atleast once a week in exchange for you lowering your expections.

Consider this, a lot of guys i know would dismiss you as emotionally needy and want to get away from you. But your DH hasn't done that and wants to be with you at all costs. You have to give him some credit for that. Don't do the 'D' without giving him a fair chance to fix this. I know this isn't what you want to hear but it is JMHO.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

bluelaser, thank you for your frank feedback. 

I do see where my mom is coming from, and where you are coming from. My mom's reasoning is: He's a good honest person, he's not cheating on you, he doesnt have any drug/alcohol/porn addictions, he loves you. Good men are hard to come by.

I don't think I am "emotionally needy." I have been in relationships before, and haven't had this problem before. I am just looking for a true and deep emotional connection with the man I plan on spending the rest of my life with. I also am looking for him to put a regular effort into the relationship, neither of which are happening.
I read posts on TAM about what couples do together (Your type of romance thread) it makes me incredibly sad that I am lacking so much of what bonds couples together.

I do not expect him to be a mind reader, and have told him specifically what my expectations are on different occasions (I gave the example of the card I wanted for our anniversary, which I didn't get. which I have a hard time forgiving) 

I do not think this makes him a bad person, and I told him that in counseling yesterday. I think it does make us to some degree incompatible, since I am constantly seeking more from him. Being affectionate is probably not in his nature, and as I explained I think it may have something to do with his upbringing.

I have many resentments in the relationship, and not just because of the emotional distance I sense from him. I am resentful that he wasn't actively looking for a job after getting laid off, as when we got married, he was expected to be the provider. I am resentful that he isnt helpful around the house. There were many days where I would come home and the house was a mess and dinner wasn't cooked. I am also resentful that he is neglecting his health and refusing to go to the gym/eat well. 

For example, we talked a bit about the relationship while I was at work. He said we'll continue the conversation when I get home. I have been home for the past 5 hours, and he is busy on his laptop (as usual) and hasn't initiated a conversation. I find that I always have to initiate difficult conversations, as he avoids them at all costs. I just feel like I have to steer everything in the relationship, and its overwhelming to have such a passive spouse.

He has been promising changes for nearly a year. I haven't seen it. The only regular affection I get from him is cuddling, which he really enjoys.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Does anyone else have any feedback? I want to hear as many views as possible. Does depression excuse his behavior? Do I give him another chance and move with him? Or will I be setting myself up for disappointment?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I couldn't disagree MORE with bluelaser's advice!



> I realized that some people are unable to give affection. You can't really hold it against them...But this is hardly a reason to end a marriage.


Feeling unappreciated/unloved is a VERY REAL concern and should NEVER be dismissed as unimportant as bluelaser seems to imply! MOST women want to FEEL loved, not just 'know' it intellectually. It's a BIG DIFFERENCE between men/women - just as women need to FEEL emotionally connected to a man to enjoy sex with him whereas men get VISUALLY turned on and can enjoy sex with a woman without ANY emotional connection.



> your emotional needs aren't being met and he has taken you for granted, well until you bring up separation in which case he is willing to do whatever because he wants to stay with you


WRONG! *Pay close attention here*...he SAYS he is willing to do whatever it takes. TALK IS CHEAP. He has had ONE YEAR to "*DO*" whatever it takes, and he hasn't done it. Repeatedly hasn't done it. Even when specifically told in simple language 'buy me a card', he hasn't done it.

But NOW she's supposed to believe he cares enough to put forth real SUSTAINED effort. NOW she's supposed to believe he cares enough to change. NOW she's supposed to believe that HER NEEDS have FINALLY dawned on him!!! And what brought about this sudden epiphany? She's not moving with him to his new job location. (It's not that he doesn't care, it's that he cares more about being COMFORTABLE himself than he cares about YOUR feelings.)

NOW he realizes he will be in it alone. No emotional back-up. No day-to-day back-up. No one to cuddle. No one to clean up, cook, do basic chores. It will ALL fall on HIM in addition to his new job and PhD studies. If I was him, I would be scared sh*tless, too! But as Azure so WISELY points out...if he didn't BOTHER putting her needs FIRST (making HER a priority) in the recent past, WHEN IS HE GOING TO FIND TIME/ENERGY to put her needs first in the near future??? After his new job? After his studies? After his needs? That is pretty far down the d*mned list for her to be waiting around for him to have yet another epiphany.

And in the meantime, are children going to be brought into the mix; making it even harder to find/make time for each other? And making it more difficult to leave this unfulfilling relationship?

If you've been in relationships BEFORE (which you say you have) where your emotional needs were better met, then you know IT'S NOT JUST YOU. If you cannot picture yourself accepting a 1950s June/Ward Cleaver marriage (sorry, my age is showing), IT'S NOT JUST YOU. 

If you H has been unwilling to try to compromise with you over these issues IN THE VERY BEGINNING -- DURING THE HONEYMOON PHASE OF YOUR MARRIAGE -- WHEN EVERYTHING IS NEW AND SHINY AND BRIGHT AND FULL OF HOPE AND PROMISE -- WHEN YOU ARE NURTURING THIS NEW LOVE AND FLEDGLING RELATIONSHIP -- then WHEN the h*ll is he planning on making ANY accommodation for YOUR needs, YOUR wants, YOUR desires? Now you're supposed to uproot your life, move how many miles away, for MORE OF THE SAME? Bullcorn!

Cut your losses. You know he will change ONLY as little as necessary and for as short a time as possible to 'prove' to you he's 'trying' or he's 'changed' or whatever. You have his PAST TRACK RECORD to look back on. THAT is the real him. THAT is what you have to look forward to. THAT is exactly HOW MUCH effort he has (or hasn't) expended in furtherance of your marital accord. And he's going to BOTHER going to the sustained effort of changing NOW and in the future....WHY? ? ? ? Oh, that's right, so YOU'LL be there for HIM. Hmm, still seeming VERY one-sided.

Leaving him doesn't mean he's a horrible person. It doesn't mean YOU'RE a horrible person. It means, it was a bad fit; a wrong choice. If you haven't figured out WHY you chose to marry him (so you can avoid another similar relationship in the future), then go see an Individual Counselor for a few sessions and see if s/he can help you understand your past to better choose your future. You don't need long-term therapy, just a little insight (and maybe s/he can recommend some reading that would help you as well).


Good luck, Azure, I think you're wise to leave now. Resentment is a SOUL-KILLER, and you don't need that in your life.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Thank you so much SlowlyGettingWiser. 

You are absolutely right. I know that he loves me. But its not enough. I don't feel it. And he will always get defensive and call me "negative" when I tell him what hurt me/what I need him to do more of.

I know I'm mentally done because he has tried initiating sex with me several times recently (after turning me down repeatedly for months.) I started crying the first time. The few times after that, I simply couldn't. 

I have started going to IC. I'm now just deciding when to physically move out.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Good on the IC; I think you'll find it eye-opening.

Once you move out on your own, you'll start to feel much better IMMEDIATELY.

Hang in there and let us know how you're doing.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

So I thought I'd give this another shot, and I decided to email him a list of questions to see if he could convince me that life with his new job in a new state will in fact be better. I sent him questions like: what's your idea of romance? how do you show a woman you love her? when I tell you my needs are unmet, do you understand what I mean? what do you think you have done to address this? how will life be different once we move? etc It was probably 15 questions.

It's been 10 days, and I haven't gotten a response. He did acknowledge that he received it. I sent it on Friday so he could reply over the weekend, but by Tuesday I got nothing, I brought it up and he said hes been "busy" and that it was a "million questions" and "why don't you answer the questions"

I just dont understand him at all. He's had a second weekend to reply, and hasnt done so even though I brought up my frustration. Is this PA behavior? Is he purposely not answering my email because I so desperately want a reply? Or is he just really intimidated/scared? 

He's been "nice" otherwise, wanting to go out together and do things together. He tried initiating sex again, but I just can't get in the mood, and he got really upset today and said that I am sabotaging the relationship and rejecting all his efforts to make changes. I have seen him make some changes, but they're not enough, and I have even had us take the 5 languages quiz and expressed to him how important words of affirmation are to me, and how he hasn't flirted with me in a long time, but he's made no effort in that regard.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I don't think it's Passive/Aggressive. I think he:

* is really uncomfortable thinking about or dealing with emotions 

* is making changes, but NOT when it involves stepping out of HIS comfort zone

* is trying to show you 'love' by having sex with you (apparently, from my reading here on TAM it's a GUY THING; having sex makes a guy feel loved); perhaps this is his way of expressing love to you (although as we know, MOST WOMEN don't feel this way...feeling loved comes FIRST, then the sex follows)

You've seen how much/little has actually changed since your pronouncement that you would NOT be moving with him. Is the change you've seen ENOUGH to make you believe that your life in the new state would be substantially different (in a better way) than what you have already seen in the past year?


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

SlowlyGettinWiser, your name really suits you. Thank you so much for your reply.

His inability to deal with emotions just drives me MAD. I don't know that I could have a deep connection with someone who is so afraid of dealing with emotions or difficult emotions.

I think he is starting to feel like the victim and has said things like "I'm so sick and tired of this" I think he feels that he's done enough, he sees no point in trying anymore. 

I have a month to see how things go. In the meantime, thank you for your support!


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## BundleofGuilt (Oct 22, 2012)

Azure, my situation is the same only more than 10 years later. I felt like you felt at your age after being married for 2 years....I always had doubts, but my husband is "such a nice guy" and my family love him so I never made a decision, I am 35 now and when I think back at all the time that I wasted hoping to feel different I can only tell you GET OUT NOW, based on what you wrote you know exactly where things are not working out and you have time to start over and give him the chance to find the right person for him. 
Regarding the first year of marriage I can look back and I can say it was provably one of the easiest for me, because in my situation it has gotten harder and harder as time goes by. Good Luck!


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Azure said:


> So I thought I'd give this another shot, and I decided to email him a list of questions to see if he could convince me that life with his new job in a new state will in fact be better. I sent him questions like: what's your idea of romance? how do you show a woman you love her? when I tell you my needs are unmet, do you understand what I mean? what do you think you have done to address this? how will life be different once we move? etc It was probably 15 questions.
> 
> It's been 10 days, and I haven't gotten a response. He did acknowledge that he received it. I sent it on Friday so he could reply over the weekend, but by Tuesday I got nothing, I brought it up and he said hes been "busy" and that it was a "million questions" and "why don't you answer the questions"
> 
> ...


WOW! Your thread caught my attention, so I read your story and I see where you are having issues with your H. This doesn't look good, and here is why. He seems to be dismissing your feelings and your needs. He complains about a simple request to answer questions? Does he not see that this is important to you, or is it that he doesn't care?

Your marriage will not get better than this if he can not of will not make the effort to please you, regardless of his personal feelings about your request. This isn't about him in that he gets to pick and choose which of your requests he will comply with. This is about "you" as a couple. I would think that, in order to save your marriage (because he knows that the marriage is in jeopardy) he would jump through hoops to understand what is it that you need from him.

He seems to want the marriage to work on his terms, and not yours. And that, unfortunately, is not the way a marriage is supposed to work. One person alone can't maintain a marriage. It takes two, and from what you say, he is unwilling to meet your needs to save this marriage.

I know it is a serious decision for you one way or the other. You can't change him. You only have to power to change yourself. So you need to ask yourself if you can "suck it up" and remain in a one-sided marriage, or whether you would rather "pull the plug", shake hands, and go your separate ways. Fortunately for you, there are no children involved.

In 10 years, can you honestly see yourself in this marriage being happy? Can you be happy with a man who weighs your requests and only picks the ones he deems worthy of attention? Can you see yourself co-parenting with him? If the answer is no, then you know what you must do. Life is too short to "settle".

I wish you good luck on whatever you decide to do.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

With ONE MONTH to go, I can't emphasize enough that *I* think you should


> Go back to INDIVIDUAL COUNSELING NOW; get a NEW counselor's take on YOU. What are your goals, dreams, aspirations. Does THIS MARRIAGE fit into those goals? If so, what do YOU need to change. If not, then you know you need to pull the plug.


*NOW* IS the time to commit or walk away!


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

BundleofGuilt, can you tell me more? How did it get harder?

survivorwife, "I would think that, in order to save your marriage (because he knows that the marriage is in jeopardy) he would jump through hoops to understand what is it that you need from him." This is how I feel and that is why it doesn't make sense to me that he didn't make the email a priority. But I have been told that I need to change my approach with him, that I need to be less confrontational, and that perhaps I am intimidating him & due to my strong personality/his low self esteem and my critical attitude, he feels like a failure and has despaired. 

If this continues, then no, I do not see my self happy 10 years from now. 

SGW, I had been to individual counseling before I got married for quite a while, probably for a year and a half on a weekly to biweekly basis. I experienced traumatic events during my teenage years, and have had very difficult family circumstances for the past 10 years. I think it has helped tremendously at some points, where I had some "aha" moments. But I generally feel that counseling is just a place for you to vent, with not much constructive feedback, which is why I don't go anymore. I have my friends to vent, and that's for free  I did go once so far, but probably can't continue because I don't have the funds for it.


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## BundleofGuilt (Oct 22, 2012)

Azure, at first the little things did not bother me that much, but with time the little things are not so little anymore. The kind of movies he likes, the kind of friends he likes, his schedule, his choices of food, how he wants to spend time one the weekends, etc etc etc...I thought those things were silly, but with time are extremely annoying. 

he loves to go out, I don't go out just to go out...but I do enjoy going out if it's with a fun crowd. How he sees religion, how he sees money....I could go on and on and on....those are things that are core to both of you and hardly ever change with time (in my opinion).
What do I know, after all I am here trying to decide when and how to walk away from my marriage...All I am saying is that if you are hoping he changes is kind of the same if he asked you to change....


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

NOT trying to hijack the thread, but this is for BundleofGuilt:


> I am 35 now


 It's not TOO late to start a new life for you, if that is what you want!

Think of it this way, you've only been an adult for about 1.5 decades and you have 5 more DECADES to go!

I had my daughter when I was 40.
One my gf's got married for the first time at 39 had her daughter at 41.
Another got married for the first time at 39 and had her daughter at 42.

You CAN start over if you really want to!

Good luck! (hugs)


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## BundleofGuilt (Oct 22, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser - Thank you so much for your post. It gives me lots of hope, you have no idea how much hope it gives me....


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Update: he never did reply to my email 

We had a counseling session today, and I left fuming, as did he.

We've been really really nice to each other the past week, so I started out by saying that. The counselor was like wow, well what happened? I then had to clarify that I haven't changed my mind about the separation. He then said he was shocked by that. I explained how it's been really nice to see how sweet we have been to each other, but at the same time, I can't shake off the feeling that our core problem is still there and that is him sweeping our problems under the rug, and a most recent example is the email. So I have been really confused 

He then proceeded to say some really hurtful things.

He said: when someone is being annoying, he just shuts them out. Its like background noise to him. He gives them "space" so they can figure out what to do with their anger on their own. 
The counselor was trying tell me not to take it personally,
shes said thats just his way of coping.

Then we talked about the email. He said that I kept bugging him about it, turning it into an argument (I brought it up twice)
I was like, I was trying to express to you that it was important to me...
so he pretty much said that I had pissed him off, so he decided not to reply  Now tell me that's not passive aggressive. So this is how he retaliates. It's a pattern, and I told him that, just like the card. I asked him to tell me what his rationale was. Why didn't he get me a card even though he knew I was upset that he didn't get it...he said "I didn't think it was important. It's just a card. What could be written could also be said.." As if he ever says those things. I told him I am telling him what I need from him. I want verbal affirmation/reassurance. The card was a way to get him to express himself to me. He didn't. He hasn't. He won't. 

He won't reply to the email, even after the counseling session today. I would be really surprised if he does. He's also giving me the silent treatment right now.

Honestly, after hearing all he had to say today, I KNOW I'm done. I just hope I stay strong enough to follow through.


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## devotion (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm sorry for your situation. I think you are making the right call. You gave it an honest effort, and I would even say your husband is giving it an honest effort, but you are just not feeling it (and maybe he's not feelling it either, given the way he's acting). But sometimes we're taught not to break the bonds of marriage at any cost and its hard to get past that and realize that reality is somewhere in between; you need to honor the commitment made and remember the things that made you get married in the first place, but its not a life sentence no matter the words 'till death do us part'. 

It will remain tough for you till the end, and probably even past the end, to convince yourself you did the right thing. Some random guy on the internet shouldn't make the decision any easier, I know, but as someone who went through the same thing, I can only wish my wife had given me the same chance.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks devotion.

I've lived through some traumatic experiences, and I've become quite resilient, but frankly, NOTHING has been as hard as coming to this decision. I kept hoping he'd show me how much he cares about me/us, because I know that he loves me, and I know he has a hard time expressing it, but so much of his behavior makes me feel unloved and unimportant. I just can't deal with it. I can't deal with the silent treatment, the pouting, sulking, and stonewalling. I can't continue to not receive the validation I need. I can't deal with the lack of emotional support. I can't deal with his low emotional intelligence. It has destroyed me emotionally. I've given him so many chances, but he refuses to leave his comfort zone and do the hard work.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Sorry he's an IDIOT, Azure, but he sure is making your choice EASY! Really? Another 20 years of THIS???

Every time you feel yourself weakening (we did have SOME good times, my family likes him, he isn't a TERRIBLE person, blah,blah, blah...) whip this OUT OF YOUR WALLET. *Seriously, print it out and keep it in your wallet with your cash.*



> Why didn't he get me a card even though he knew I was upset that he didn't get it...he said "*I didn't think it was important. It's just a card.* What could be written could also be said.."


Apparently, only HE decides what IS/ISN'T important for YOU! I can't believe he admitted to being such a douche-bag in front of a counselor...at least he gets points for being an HONEST d-b.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Azure said:


> Then we talked about the email. He said that I kept bugging him about it, turning it into an argument (I brought it up twice)
> I was like, I was trying to express to you that it was important to me...
> so he pretty much said that I had pissed him off, so he decided not to reply  Now tell me that's not passive aggressive. So this is how he retaliates. It's a pattern, and I told him that, just like the card. I asked him to tell me what his rationale was. Why didn't he get me a card even though he knew I was upset that he didn't get it...he said "I didn't think it was important. It's just a card. What could be written could also be said.." As if he ever says those things. I told him I am telling him what I need from him. I want verbal affirmation/reassurance. The card was a way to get him to express himself to me. He didn't. He hasn't. He won't.


He IS expressing himself. *He is expressing that he doesn't care enough about you or this relationship to make even the most minimal of efforts.*

And your counselor said you needed to be more understanding of how your husband expresses himself? I think your counselor is a tool. I would tell you to get a new counselor, but I don't think counseling is going to work.

Get out. As fast as you can, get out.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

SGW, thats what I was thinking yesterday, goodness he is SO DUMB! Really, I understand that he hasn't had too much experience with the ladies, but how hard is it when a woman tells you exactly what she wants? He kept saying how women were so complicated during the session. and I just wanted to :banghead:

I dont think he even realizes that statement about not thinking it was important makes him such a DB.

FeministInPink, to be fair to the counselor, she got on his case quite a bit yesterday, told him he can't resume having a great relationship if he keeps problem sweeping, she told him that's like asking someone to leave their left arm behind as they walk away with you. She told him he can't be afraid to rock the boat if things feel nice and dandy. 

She also explained to him how I want to feel safe before moving with him, and I'll only feel safe if he delivers after I tell him what my needs are. I told him that the email was an opportunity for him to convince me & a test but he failed. 

I think she tries to be unbiased most of the time, and she'll get on my case every now and then. But I felt that yesterday she felt like she didn't know where to go with us, like "what do I do with this couple? They are hopeless" lol.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Not every marriage CAN BE saved. Not every marriage SHOULD be saved. (Hope your MC "gets" this!)

Sometimes I feel like ALL I DO here at TAM is tell people to 'get out', but then I remember that most people who come here are AT THEIR WITS' END. TAM is not usually anyone's FIRST CHOICE, it is usually the court of last resort.

Hope you will be strong enough to change YOURSELF and CREATE a great life for YOU, Azure!


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## devotion (Oct 8, 2012)

I kinda feel odd being the man in between a bunch of women who are telling you to dump that zero ... and I do stand by my original statement that I think you are doing the right thing. But to defend insensitive, idiotic men everywhere (I carry that card) we are bred from day 1 to surpress emotion and to see it as weakness, from both ourselves and the outside. 

I'm not saying it as an excuse, and I think the not writing the card thing is stupid, because bottom line is even if he didn't think its important, at this point if it was important to you he should have done it. 

Maybe the counseling session has just recently taken a turn for the worse. My MC from the beginning said that for some couples divorce was the only option, and it only takes one person to make that decision. If you do make that decision, and your MC is still trying to convince you, then stop seeing the MC. MC is not for everyone. Like I said, being on the other aisle its hard to admit it, and I know I screwed up some opportunities I had earlier. I am not really mad that she's leaving, not too mad that I didn't get a 'last chance'. He may feel different but dem da breaks...


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do well in MC; the counselor would be constantly putting me in the 'TIME OUT' corner for being a snarky beyotch!



> He kept saying how women were so complicated during the session.


...and I'd be saying sh1t like, "Yeah, when we say 'buy me a card', secretly what we REALLY mean is *'buy me an EFFIN card'*" and I'm pretty sure MC frown on that TYPE of behavior...


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## devotion (Oct 8, 2012)

LOL SGW, LOL. I don't have much more to say but its good to laugh when reading about such stressing times for all. 

And good luck Azure!


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Thanks Devotion

& LOL SGW I'm pretty sarcastic and have a comeback for everything, but I stay well behaved in MC for the most part.

So, I've been packing my stuff, and I'm somewhat surprised by my lack of sadness. I haven't cried for a few weeks now, and I feel pretty optimistic when I think about my life on my own. Am I just coldhearted? Am I in denial?


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Also, I'm somewhat embarrassed of my thread title after reading some of the experiences on TAM lol


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Just wanted to update you all and let you know that we've been officially separated for a month now. I felt incredibly relieved once I left, and realized that I am NOT projecting my unhappiness onto him. I feel really good to be on my own right now. I don't know if this will soon be replaced with depression lol, I hope not! 

However, we have recently resumed talking on the phone, and its funny how well we get along when its just over the phone. I told him today that I think we should stop talking. He is really hopeful we'll get back together, so he was upset. He still called me later just to chat. I feel really heartbroken for HIM more than for myself. He cried twice as he apologized to me and begged for another chance last week. I just hate knowing that I'm hurting him deeply. But I am also pretty set on a divorce. I just don't know if talking to him will make me forget all the pain he's put me through, which is why I want to cut contact


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I'm GLAD you updated, Azure! I've been wondering about you!

It *IS* difficult to see how upset he is, but in your heart of hearts you KNOW that another chance will change NOTHING! He is not a BAD person, he is just the WRONG person FOR YOU! He cannot change who he is....who he fundamentally is. And YOU can't accept living with him the way he is. 

Both of you WILL move on, both of you WILL find new people who will, hopefully, be a better match for each of you in the long-run. Don't think of it as 'hurting him.' Think of it as doing WHAT YOU KNOW IS RIGHT for you and, therefore, for him, too, as an unhappy YOU cannot make for a happy marriage. Think of it like an operation to separate you...no one likes to go under the knife, but sometimes it's NECESSARY.

Cut contact because you KNOW a long-term relationship with him will HURT YOU. You cannot afford to temporarily (and it will be ONLY temporary as you cannot SUSTAIN this relationship happily) make HIM feel BETTER if you know it is hurting YOU in the long-run. It's like a band-aid, RIP IT OFF QUICKLY and move on!


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## StephenG (Nov 22, 2012)

My wife and I are separated now and I believe it is going to be a divorce (ball is in her court she makes the shots).

She told me she wants to give me another chance but she is scared and think it will go right back to how it was.

My response: How will you know for sure if you don't give it a try?

So that is my response to you as well.

Ball is in your court, it's your decision, your life.
I can tell you now if my wife would give me that 2nd chance, she would of saw a permanent change, but that's just me.

Best of luck to you


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## SoulMeetsBody (Sep 22, 2012)

Don't let your "logic" get in the way of your true feelings. 

I may be a bit bias, because I am currently in a much stickier situation. If I was in your shoes, I would pull the plug. 

If your heart isn't in it, and there are no kids involved.
Get out, get out, get OUT


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

SGW, I asked him to stop calling, we argued, we fought. We played the blame game. I cried. He felt bad. 

He continued calling for a few more days, then he stopped. I'm glad he stopped.

Stephen G, I wish I could give him another chance. 
He blew every opportunity I gave him. I stopped loving him. When he tried kissing me before he left, I felt nothing at all. The anger I feel and the hurt is starting to subside, but every time I question my decision to leave him, I remember how I literally begged him to give me something, ANYTHING to hold on to, and he gave me none. It hurts a lot.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

2013 WILL be MUCH better for you, Azure. Hopefully, it will be better for your STBXH also.

If you still question your decision, whip that piece of paper out of your wallet (gets the 'Mom-evil-glare-eye)...you DO have the paper, don't you? (just kidding!) and READ IT.

...not because he's an idiot, but because you need to remind yourself of the futility of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.

Hope you have a good and safe New Year's Eve.
Hope you're going to be sticking around TAM.
Drop me a PM sometime to let me know *how* you're doing if you decide NOT to post regularly on TAM (but we hope you do...you've got valuable insight to offer others)!


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## Battle_Cats (Jun 28, 2012)

devotion said:


> I kinda feel odd being the man in between a bunch of women who are telling you to dump that zero ... and I do stand by my original statement that I think you are doing the right thing. But to defend insensitive, idiotic men everywhere (I carry that card) we are bred from day 1 to surpress emotion and to see it as weakness, from both ourselves and the outside.


I am male. Lot's of women on this thread are giving advice from a woman's perspective which is natural of course. I agree here with Devotion.

Azure, men are simply not as connected to their emotions as women are. This is likely due to our evolution. For a male, being connected too closely to our emotions was actually self defeating. We cannot rush into danger if we feel our fear. We cannot keep moving forward if we drown in sorrow. We cannot keep our control if we succumb to our anger.

Men are based on action. In the past, we had to act despite what we "felt." Our power is in our action. Think of the havoc one man can create when he mis-directs his actions. Connecting to our emotions feels dangerous to us. It puts something we have a hard time controlling in charge of a body capable of enormous action. We don't like feeling emotional. It is uncomfortable to us. Spock wasn't just a random character. He was a man every man wants to be. Logic before emotion. Emotion always tightly controlled.

In men, this has created a tendency to remain disconnected - what women might describe as cold, unemotional, machine-like, or disconnected. You mentioned this when you said he shuts you out when he feels annoyed. That is how we do. Women don't understand and do what they think is normal, ie becoming more demanding which actually makes a man shut down more because it keeps pushing him closer to emotion which he is trying to keep at arms length in the fist place.

Now, that said, men, like women, exist on a spectrum of behavior. Some are better at maintaining a closer connection to their emotions than others. Your H may be on the end that keeps him further away. Notice how your husband responds with direct actions to immediate problems but then resumes normal operating mode when things have settled down. This is men. 

You, OTOH may exist further on your behavioral spectrum making you need more affirmation than perhaps another woman might. So, my long winded explanation is that perhaps you both love each other and are each doing the best you can but are simply too far apart in your respective spectrums to reach over the divide and make a connection.

I personally believe that this situation will not improve. You are both putting too much pressure on yourselves to change too much from your normal behavioral range to make such a change likely to succeed. Your "new" behaviors will always seem alien, forced and unnatural.

You both need to come to terms and do what is best based on these facts. What family says or what fear of the unknown might do to color those facts should be ignored as much as possible.


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## Battle_Cats (Jun 28, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do well in MC; the counselor would be constantly putting me in the 'TIME OUT' corner for being a snarky beyotch!
> 
> ...and I'd be saying sh1t like, "Yeah, when we say 'buy me a card', secretly what we REALLY mean is *'buy me an EFFIN card'*" and I'm pretty sure MC frown on that TYPE of behavior...


Not to confuse the situation but just to bring up a point about perspectives. What do you think a man means when he says, "Make me a sandwich?"

Now, what is most women's response? 

Saying "buy me a card" virtually guarantees that he won't. Not to be passive-aggressive but because you killed the sincerity of it. Now, if he gets you a card, *he* will feel like he took the lazy way out and *he* will feel insincere. Women have supported this belief by then complaining that they "had to tell him what to get." 

That is a tap dance in a mine field for a man and THAT is why Azure's husband complained that women are complicated. Women ruin the feeling of sincerity of men's expressions with TOO MUCH expectation. Most men just give up and shut down because they feel like it is futile trying to live up to that level of expectation.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

There is definitely a huge gap between what you expected from the marriage and what actually happened. I would look back at all the change points (the loss of job, the honeymoon, the moving three times, your move to home state, etc.) and revisit seriously your expectations each and every time a change happened. Did you think surely this was when things were going to get better...or did you ever think, things have got bad, they can get worse? Did you ever just say, well, looks like I am going to be living out of a suitcase and my H might be on board with me, or not, on any given day, so I'm going to take care of myself? Some people are real good at beginning each day by securing it with a cup of coffee and adding hot boiling water to a cup of instant oatmeal and eating at a taco bar every night... Some people crave security and pursue it and cannot deal with anything less than what they want...the house, the home, the stable predictable always-loving spouse, and that spare room that will become baby's when the extended honeymoon is over. Living on the road is not for everyone, especially when it's not what you set out to do. If it were me, I'd probably have seen it as an adventure...I followed my first H from MS to AL, to New Orleans to DC to Hawaii to Hong Kong and then Beijing. Sometimes he was there, sometimes he wasn't. I only left him when he became a boring alcoholic and endangered me and our baby. Then I lived in temporary housing with friends until I got my own place...but I moved every couple years and have been on the go every so often. I'm sure my life would be strange to some but it makes perfect sense to me. 

What is your H's relation with geography? Is he perhaps used to waking up in different places...or is he so used to home and Mom being there for him that the very thought of marriage turned him into an anxious nutcase unable to cope with setting up his own home?

It doesn't really matter which he is, you have to decide for yourself what kind of life you want. Then you have to live it. If your husband doesn't fit in, and he's not willing to try, and you're not willing to follow him, the writing is kind of on the wall with that.

You could try to get a job where you could telecommute, and invest in a good laptop with a kick-a** wireless connection.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

Battle_Cats I appreciate your insight. 

I understand what you are saying about Men. Bu I really am not looking for the impossible. Perhaps you are right, maybe we were too far apart on our respective spectrums. 

My husband, who says one of his top love languages is touch, would not even touch me like a man who was attracted to his wife would. I did not feel desired by him. He wouldn’t make eye contact, which I deeply craved. He rarely complimented me. Heck some women complain how their H's make them feel like a piece of meat...that’s better than what I was getting. We had sex approx 3 times a month. I would initiate often and he would decline. I felt rejected. unloved. unattractive. 

I think everything combined: moving, his unemployment, his passive aggressive nature, his low sex drive, his lack of interest in getting to know each other better, his lack of affection, his not showing me appreciation all led to where we are today.

I have to say that the week I was packing, he started trying to win me back, begging me to stay, being a lot more physically and emotionally affectionate. That week, he said things that I hadn't heard all of my marriage. He held me as I cried, apologized and said "I'm sorry I failed you. You mean the world to me. You're such a strong woman, and yet so fragile! but I appreciate everything you have done, including taking on the financial responsibility, I love you and can't imagine not spending the rest of my life with you. I'd be a fool to let you go. You're my queen. Please let me earn back your trust!"

WOW! 

When I say NEVER, I really am not exaggerating, I had NEVER throughout our turbulent marriage, been told ANYTHING that he said that day in the span of 10 minutes (except for the “I love you”.) I sobbed even harder, and said, “I wish I'd heard this when I needed to”  How hard is it to say what he said that day? Is it really so difficult for a man who is not expressive to say those simple statements like “you mean the world to me” or “I appreciate what you are doing” to the woman he claims to love so much?

I remember this guy I was with, he’d be holding me and would say “my girl” in a proud way, and that alone would set my heart on fire. I really don’t think I’m emotionally hard to please!

Yes, I do need reassurance and affirmation. I need to feel loved by the man I had planned on spending the rest of my life with. I think what disturbed me the most was: If he's like this NOW as newlyweds, what will we be like five years from now? When kids come along? Ten years? It seemed bleak and unpromising.

The “buy me a card” was because my birthday had passed, holidays had passed, and I got no gift or card! I simply said “you know what I want for our anniversary, I really want you to write me a card.” How else was I supposed to communicate this to him? 

But what about the email? He knew our marriage was at a crossroads, and he chose to be defiant, even though he claimed that he didn’t want a separation or a divorce. So how are you choosing your marriage over separation when you wont even do something so simple like reassure your wife!

Homemaker numero uno, yes you are right. There was a huge gap in what I expected vs what I experienced. I married him straight out of college, looking for stability, thinking he’d be the main provider while I figured out what I’d want to do with my life/career. 

But since an early age, I was used to life throwing curve balls at me. I have lived in many different conditions and environments, including different countries, lost many loved ones, really had gone through much worse than the average person my age in this country. I really do believe I am one to make the best out of any situation, even if it wasn’t going according to plan. I am currently living out of a suitcase lol and happier than ever. Recently I traveled with a relative and she mentioned later how much she loved my easy going attitude and how I wasn’t a fussy person at all. I think what hurt the most was how he shut me out from the beginning, and how much of a sourpuss he was about everything. He still claims that he wasn’t depressed. He says he just felt “disconnected”. I think it’d be easier for me to accept that he were depressed because it was miserable living with him.

Ive come to the conclusion that “he so used to home and Mom being there for him that the very thought of marriage turned him into an anxious nutcase unable to cope with setting up his own home?”
He is now back living with his family, and he is so happy. He is back hitting the gym, going out with friends, being babied by mom and cooked and cared for. I really think he cannot be apart from his family. 

Also while I’ve been focusing largely on the emotional aspect of our relationship, I didn’t go into other issues such as finances, a big reason I left him (I am sure he wasn’t putting in all his unemployment check to the household (he claims he was, there was no way though, it doesn’t add up) there was no transparency, he wasn’t applying to jobs, he got offered to start his last job on two different occasions and declined because he “wasn’t ready”). He also would give me major heart attacks because we’d come to a final decision about a major issues and then he would change his mind AGAIN. This happened very recently as well. It would be a really really long post to just discuss those issues.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

I also want to add that I obviously have my flaws. But I really feel that he brought out the worst in me. Not sure if this is just blame-shifting, but I felt that a lot of my behavior was a response to his behavior which led to a really vicious cycle. 

I am trying to pinpoint my biggest flaws to work on them.


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## Azure (Oct 8, 2012)

SGW, Thank you so much! Your support means so much. Happy New year to you as well and to everyone on TAM. I hope you are right...let 2013 be a great year! I am trying my best to remain optimistic


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

BattleCats:

Thanks for the male POV. I would take exception with the generalizations that you made in your arguements.


> Saying "buy me a card" virtually guarantees that he won't. Not to be passive-aggressive but because you killed the sincerity of it. Now, if he gets you a card, *he* will feel like he took the lazy way out and *he* will feel insincere.


Perhaps in SOME instances, but Azure's husband CLEARLY STATED that HE didn't buy a card because HE "didn't think it was important". So although his wife CLEARLY STATED how important it was to HER, he dismissed her statements, her needs, her wants because HE, as apparently the arbiter of all that is/isn't important, ruled that it was actually unimportant.



> Women have supported this belief by then complaining that they "had to tell him what to get."


Another generalization. Unhappy, b1tchy, miserable women kvetching to their gfs may, indeed, gripe about this. BUT, happy, contented, satisified, fulfilled women in adult relationships are HAPPY, GRATEFUL and expressive of their thanks when their SO do something for them....whether they had to spell it out or not.


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