# Faking indifference and even happiness



## SepticChange

Does this really work when you deal with your ex? Especially if you were the one who was hurt or hurt more I mean. When you talk do you show them that you don't care anymore (if you still do) and that you're happy without them (when you're still struggling)? There are still some residual post-divorce financial issues that has us communicating on and off and naturally he asks how I'm doing and I end up being way too honest about it. Would it push him away for good if I act neutral or just kill him with kindness instead of sadness and/or bitterness? I just wanna be friendly and cordial (well we don't fight) and leave him thinking that I don't care for him anymore. How does this work? He can't know I'm still recovering and angry anymore. Does this make any sense?


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## Greg1515

"There are still some residual post-divorce financial issues that has us communicating on and off"
Try and get financial advice through an accountant or lawyer that might speed this up. I would advice against trying to work these out together by yourselves.

"naturally he asks how I'm doing and I end up being way too honest about it."
I think it's a bad idea to open up about how you're coping with your life, to the person that put you in this situation in the first place.

And for the sake of your peace of mind and your recovery I would limit my interactions with my X to issues pertaining our divorce. You two share a history, it's feels natural to want to keep talking to him. But it's a bad idea given that you are not on equal ground. You have surrendered some of your power to him and you are vulnerable right now. It's best to avoid interaction as much as you can with him at the moment. Regardless of what he thinks about it. Yours is the only opinion that matters.


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## EleGirl

SepticChange said:


> Does this really work when you deal with your ex? Especially if you were the one who was hurt or hurt more I mean. When you talk do you show them that you don't care anymore (if you still do) and that you're happy without them (when you're still struggling)? There are still some residual post-divorce financial issues that has us communicating on and off and naturally he asks how I'm doing and I end up being way too honest about it. Would it push him away for good if I act neutral or just kill him with kindness instead of sadness and/or bitterness? I just wanna be friendly and cordial (well we don't fight) and leave him thinking that I don't care for him anymore. How does this work? He can't know I'm still recovering and angry anymore. Does this make any sense?


Yes it works. For one thing it keeps you from stirring up your own feelings. 

Look at the link in my signature block below for the 180. That is how you interact with him. Doing this helps you separate and heal.


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## SamuraiJack

Yes, it does work. 
JUst trust in it.

If you want to the long explanation...ask.


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## Ynot

SamuraiJack said:


> Yes, it does work.
> JUst trust in it.
> 
> If you want to the long explanation...ask.


Ok, I am asking.
One of the things that I notice about this forum and in my personal interactions in real life with other divorcees is that faking indifference and happiness is too much the reality as opposed to truly being indifferent and happy. But maybe I am just still too raw. I truly want to be indifferent and happy, but I am having a really hard time even imagining it at this point to even begin acting like I am. I can't capture the essence.
Most every divorcee I meets claims to be indifferent and happy but really just seem to be faking it. But again, maybe I am too sensitive? 
I am not saying this in an accusatory manner, nor I am seeking argument. I am just saying how I feel. I am very full of self doubt, so please any insight is appreciated.


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## SepticChange

Greg1515 said:


> "There are still some residual post-divorce financial issues that has us communicating on and off"
> Try and get financial advice through an accountant or lawyer that might speed this up. I would advice against trying to work these out together by yourselves.
> 
> "naturally he asks how I'm doing and I end up being way too honest about it."
> I think it's a bad idea to open up about how you're coping with your life, to the person that put you in this situation in the first place.
> 
> And for the sake of your peace of mind and your recovery I would limit my interactions with my X to issues pertaining our divorce. You two share a history, it's feels natural to want to keep talking to him. But it's a bad idea given that you are not on equal ground. You have surrendered some of your power to him and you are vulnerable right now. It's best to avoid interaction as much as you can with him at the moment. Regardless of what he thinks about it. Yours is the only opinion that matters.


Neither one of us have money for a lawyer and an accountant and frankly I think it's a waste of money because the issues are so minor.


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## SepticChange

SamuraiJack said:


> Yes, it does work.
> JUst trust in it.
> 
> If you want to the long explanation...ask.


Tell me more.


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## EnjoliWoman

It's a form of "fake it til you make it". Truly becoming indifferent takes some time. Meanwhile act that way - eventually it will come. But giving into your woe is me feelings to the ex is like picking a scab off - it keeps the wound fresh and raw. 

Next time just say "I'm doing better, thanks" and proceed to the topic at hand. 

I was angry with the ex for a good while - a couple years. But after that I was relatively indifferent except for bouts where he was doing stuff to truly illicit anger because of stuff he was pulling with our daughter. By that point it had nothing to do with our relationship - nothing residual and all about the current situation; not the history.


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## Rowan

A lot of this, I think, has to do with retraining yourself to stop treating your former partner as a partner. Set and maintain appropriate boundaries - for yourself and with your ex. Train yourself to engage with your ex as if he were exactly what he is - a man with whom you share no special relationship. Sharing your emotions, relying on him for stability and a listening ear, is inappropriate. Yes, he used to be your person. But now he's not. So don't share things with him as if he still were. Treat him - behave around him - as if he were a business college or an acquaintance. Because that's all he really is to you now. If you wouldn't say something or share something with the guy two offices down, don't say it or share it with your ex.

The best part is that if you consistently do this, it gets easier. You stop seeing your ex as someone it's appropriate to over-share with. It gets easier with time and practice. Eventually, you actually are indifferent - rather than just acting that way. Apathy is a great thing!

If you can't seem to manage to detach enough to start the process, though, you may need to see a therapist for some additional coping techniques.


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## SepticChange

I've never had to exercise this "fake it till you make it" with anybody before so this will be tough. My next instinct would be to respond with anger and give him a piece of my mind and tell him all the nasty things I've so often rehearsed in my head just to upset him...which I know it will but I'm not an angry person so I might just have to accept that he'll never know exactly how angry I've felt. But if I get another message from him I'll respond cordially as if we're just co workers. Just to show him that I'm good without him and that he can just wonder why.


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## SamuraiJack

SepticChange said:


> Tell me more.


Okay,
What you are looking to do is to set up a feedback loop with your own mind. It all STARTS with feigning indifference.

When you do this, you make a conscious effort to NOT buy into negative interactions with your ex.

Each time you do this you minimize the chances of having a negative interaction with your ex. If successful, the lack of interaction rewards you for your actions by a reduction in the stress you feel around your ex. You are deliberately reprogramming your brain to NOT react to them.

So the process starts with you having to pretend that you don't care, but in the end, actually gets you to that point...by slowly rewarding yourself with a decrease in negative interactions.

Oddly enough this can also lure your partner back due to THEIR feeling more comfortable because you aren't reacting to their negative behaviors. Sort of a reverse of the process that actually got you two here in the first place.

Most of the time there is a less than 10% chance that a couple can fix things under reasonable circumstances...but this optimizes the very small chance...as much as it can.

So what you are doing is...

1.Making the decision to change your mindset and minimize the negative.
2. The relief you feel builds over time and rewards your efforts.
3. Soon your brain begins to prefer the non emotionally charged interactions and rewards you more.
4. After a while, the "not caring" becomes second nature due to the training you gave your brain.
5. Suddenly you just...don't care.

For realsies!

It all comes down to not giving in to the impulse to either engage negatively or love unevenly.

You can actually train your brain out of bad choices around your ex. 

Another thing a lot of people don't realize is that the brain rewards them for fighting by dumping chemicals into the system when you do. Sometimes folks get used to that and sometimes it seems like the norm.
You just have to make the decision that you don't want to give into it.

Its very much like loosing weight. You can t become instantly skinny just like you cant just swear off some people. Sometimes it takes practice and multiple attempts.


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## stillhoping

I have been foolishly been having a very hard time getting past this myself. I have been sending my ex messages that say "I miss you". I kept feeling this was just the truth. He and I were together for 30 years, he needs to know the impact the choice he made has on my life. That was my explanation to myself. I want him to know the pain he caused, to be reminded of it just like it reminds me, all the time. But I have resolved for the new year, that he is not entitled to know about how I feel. But almost every day I want to send it. Today I know he was at our son's house, helping to insulate his garage and I wanted so much to stop by there, to send him a message telling him I wished I had been able to join them. And you know what, he just would have said that's fine, come on over. He could care less. So I am working hard every day not to send another message. I won't say it is getting easier, but every day I didn't send one, feels pretty good


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## 3Xnocharm

stillhoping said:


> I have been foolishly been having a very hard time getting past this myself. I have been sending my ex messages that say "I miss you". I kept feeling this was just the truth. He and I were together for 30 years, he needs to know the impact the choice he made has on my life. That was my explanation to myself. I want him to know the pain he caused, to be reminded of it just like it reminds me, all the time. But I have resolved for the new year, that he is not entitled to know about how I feel. But almost every day I want to send it. Today I know he was at our son's house, helping to insulate his garage and I wanted so much to stop by there, to send him a message telling him I wished I had been able to join them. And you know what, he just would have said that's fine, come on over. He could care less. So I am working hard every day not to send another message. I won't say it is getting easier, but every day I didn't send one, feels pretty good


Yes,work hard to NOT send those, because all you are doing is reinforcing to him that HE WINS. He moved on with his life, but sees you pining away over him...he feels no guilt or remorse over it, therefore HE WINS. I foolishly did the same thing for a while after my last divorce. I finally realized that all I was doing was looking pathetic, and that he felt zero sympathy over what he did to me. He had won enough, I needed to stop helping him do that to me.


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## Hardtohandle

Just want to let you know caring doesn't make you a weak person.. It makes you an honest person.. 

Recently I cried in family court and told my Ex it didn't have to be this way.. 

Mind you at this time the judge ordered my EX WIFE to increase child support from 200 a month to 1300 a month.. Doing the math in my head just now, she makes about 1800 a month.. 

I just felt bad.. Yea, she fvcked me over and really screwed me up mentally.. But I just couldn't hide my emotions.. 

She made some sort of comment I missed but the judge scolded her for saying it and defended me.. 

I really don't care, this is fvcking me.. The whole raw me.. I cry if I'm sad and laugh when I'm happy.. I will never hide my emotions again and I will tell you whats is on mind and how I feel or if you are doing something I think hurts me emotionally..

If my Ex wife wants to go back to her POSM and they both want to laugh how I cried in court.. By all means do so.. I've done things in my life that many would have the courage to do. So I don't need to prove myself to anyone..


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## Wolf1974

This didn't work for me. I acted indifferent and got nothing from her. Started datng again and same thing. Now I honestly don't care so it doesn't matter anymore but just wanted to give that perspective that it doesn't always work to fake indifference.


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## Rowan

Wolf1974 said:


> This didn't work for me. I acted indifferent and got nothing from her. Started datng again and same thing. Now I honestly don't care so it doesn't matter anymore but just wanted to give that perspective that it doesn't always work to fake indifference.


I would never recommend that anyone fake indifference in order to get something from their ex. That's not the point. The point is to fake it 'til you make it. Behave as if you are indifferent until such a time as you actually become indifferent. Not to get something from your ex-spouse, but to gain something for yourself. Behaving as if your ex isn't getting to you gives you a little bit of dignity, it gives you control, it's a tool to train yourself to stop allowing your ex to impact your life and your emotions. It's a step in moving on. Don't do it expecting that it will bring your ex running back - or anything else. Do it because it will help you actually move on.


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## WasDecimated

This was a tough and gradual process for me. 

My XWW seemed to always want contact after the D was final...texting, calling and sending me Fakebook messages. She would even lingering in my house, trying to talk to me when she would pickup the kids. She would always try to hug me before she left too. All of this was keeping her in my mind. The truth is, even after what she did, I was still missing her but it had to stop. I understood that her behavior was not to win me back...it was for her. She wanted to keep me in orbit in case things didn't work out in her new single life...a backup plan. Again, as in the final years of our marriage, she was just using me.

At first this was hard to do but I decided to start by acting indifferent. I started only replying to texts that related to the kids...ignoring the rest. I quit Fakebook. I stopped answering the phone when she would call. I now make sure the kids are packed and ready when she would arrive in order to minimize the face time between us. I changed the pass code to the garage so she can't just walk in. Now when she is there to pick them up I do my best to remain happy and indifferent. I don't talk to her except when its about the kids...and no hugs. She has tried to reel me back in from time to time but I keep the door closed. She tried to hug me a couple weeks ago. I simply said "please don't touch me" 

My goal is Not to get her back but a benefit is that my indifference is really bothering her. She even said that she hates that I wont talk to her. 

Faking this indifference has really working for me. Gradually my feelings for her have dissipated. Now, for the most part, I am genuinely indifferent towards her. I also feel I am much more emotionally stable and happy. :smthumbup:


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## Greg1515

Decimated said:


> This was a tough and gradual process for me.
> 
> My XWW seemed to always want contact after the D was final...texting, calling and sending me Fakebook messages. She would even lingering in my house, trying to talk to me when she would pickup the kids. She would always try to hug me before she left too. All of this was keeping her in my mind. The truth is, even after what she did, I was still missing her but it had to stop. I understood that her behavior was not to win me back...it was for her. She wanted to keep me in orbit in case things didn't work out in her new single life...a backup plan. Again, as in the final years of our marriage, she was just using me.
> 
> At first this was hard to do but I decided to start by acting indifferent. I started only replying to texts that related to the kids...ignoring the rest. I quit Fakebook. I stopped answering the phone when she would call. I now make sure the kids are packed and ready when she would arrive in order to minimize the face time between us. I changed the pass code to the garage so she can't just walk in. Now when she is there to pick them up I do my best to remain happy and indifferent. I don't talk to her except when its about the kids...and no hugs. She has tried to reel me back in from time to time but I keep the door closed. She tried to hug me a couple weeks ago. I simply said "please don't touch me"
> 
> My goal is Not to get her back but a benefit is that my indifference is really bothering her. She even said that she hates that I wont talk to her.
> 
> Faking this indifference has really working for me. Gradually my feelings for her have dissipated. Now, for the most part, I am genuinely indifferent towards her. I also feel I am much more emotionally stable and happy. :smthumbup:


Wow, I have to applaud the commitment you made to change your approach towards your ex. I wish I would've had the courage from the very start to act that way at the first sign of trouble.

I will say though that it doesn't seem that you faked happiness or indifference towards her. You were just flat out rude to her (don't get me wrong she deserved that treatment from you).

Indifference in my opinion is being able to laugh off any subject your eX throws at you right in their face. It's being able to give them no more or less courtesy than you would a distant friend or stranger. It's letting her hug you and then give a half-### hug back as a mere common courtesy.


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## 3Xnocharm

Decimated said:


> This was a tough and gradual process for me.
> 
> My XWW seemed to always want contact after the D was final...texting, calling and sending me Fakebook messages. She would even lingering in my house, trying to talk to me when she would pickup the kids. She would always try to hug me before she left too. All of this was keeping her in my mind. The truth is, even after what she did, I was still missing her but it had to stop. I understood that her behavior was not to win me back...it was for her. She wanted to keep me in orbit in case things didn't work out in her new single life...a backup plan. Again, as in the final years of our marriage, she was just using me.
> 
> At first this was hard to do but I decided to start by acting indifferent. I started only replying to texts that related to the kids...ignoring the rest. I quit Fakebook. I stopped answering the phone when she would call. I now make sure the kids are packed and ready when she would arrive in order to minimize the face time between us. I changed the pass code to the garage so she can't just walk in. Now when she is there to pick them up I do my best to remain happy and indifferent. I don't talk to her except when its about the kids...and no hugs. She has tried to reel me back in from time to time but I keep the door closed. She tried to hug me a couple weeks ago. I simply said "please don't touch me"
> 
> My goal is Not to get her back but a benefit is that my indifference is really bothering her. She even said that she hates that I wont talk to her.
> 
> Faking this indifference has really working for me. Gradually my feelings for her have dissipated. Now, for the most part, I am genuinely indifferent towards her. I also feel I am much more emotionally stable and happy. :smthumbup:


:allhail:


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## WasDecimated

> I wish I would've had the courage from the very start to act that way at the first sign of trouble.


I wish I would have done this from the very beginning too. Not doing a hard 180 at D day #1, #2 or even #3 is my biggest regret. 

I think, in her mind, we would be friends after all of this was over. After the divorce was final, I still thought, in some twisted way, that she would figure her s**t out and realize what she threw away. As time went on I realized she was just using me to make herself feel better...about herself. She doesn't really care about me.

Kinda like "See, he still loves me. What I did wasn't so bad...I must still be a good person"

I do try not to be overtly rude, especially in front of our kids. However, she doesn't seem to get the message unless I keep it cold and business like. The more interaction I would have with her...the more I would get sucked back in. This was and is my best form of defense against her emotional treachery.


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## Greg1515

Decimated said:


> After the divorce was final, I still thought, in some twisted way, that she would figure her s**t out and _*realize what she threw away*_.


This, is exactly how I felt for many months. 

Reading these forums helped me understand the nature of my relationship with my x-wife. It was a Paradox. 

In order for her to respect me and maybe even love me, I needed to sincerely not give a damn about her. The moment I showed emotion or attachment whenever we reconciled she would start backing away.

That's the only thing I don't like about the 180 approach. What's the point of "tricking" your partner to come back to you, if in order for it to really work, your feelings against them once you start the 180 need to be completely genuine.

I wish I had stood up for myself and not taken any crap from her or anyone. Not for the sake of the marriage, but for my own dignity.


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## SamuraiJack

This is a perfect example of winning a fight by simply not ever allowing them to connect to your body...


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## Flying_Dutchman

Top thread! Loads of different opinions and approaches. Well, here's another.

I'm guessing, Sceptic, that since you were the one 'most hurt' by your break-up you endured a period of 'trauma'. Don't want to dwell here but, essentially, a period during which you'd replay 'scenes' of your relationship and wonder if things you barely noticed were, in fact significant. How did you get from happy A to miserable B? A big whirlpool of head-shìte it can take weeks-to-years to process. Messes with your sleep and appetite.

Replaying and stuck in the past. Simplistic,, but enough for this thread.

Trauma, largely, can't be helped,, that's why it's traumatic.

What you're doing now is like trauma except you're doing it by choice - running scenarios for your present and future. 

Occasionally, in specific situations, it might work. Mostly, it'll hold you back.

As others suggested, you need to stop affording him 'special' status. He's just another friend, aquaintence, or whatever he turns out to be to you. You won't know till you drop the 'special',, and you won't get to where you want to get.

Think about it. You don't formulate these 'game plans' for other friends (etc) you have to meet. Some you like more than others, some you dislike,, they all have their good and bad points. They're just THEM. If you haven't had a fight with one of them or some other issue you need to address, you don't meet them with a game plan or give them any thought during alone time. You mostly meet them and improvise. That's called 'being yourself' and requires little emotional expenditure.

That's where you want to get to with your ex. Don't aim for 'indifferent',, aim for however you find him. If you like him, you like him. If he's a díck, he's a dìck. Anything negative will make you largely indifferent. If he turns out to be funny,, why deprive yourself of the laughs by feigning indifference?

If you're still harbouring a desire to punish him (back) you won't find indifference there either.

You mentioned the finances, but there will other big stuff and a bunch more smaller ones. If you're running scenarios in your head - indifferent here, mustn't cry there, OK to smile if he mentions that - it soon adds up.

If you're doing that, you'll also be running 'post-meeting analysis' and amending your strategies. (your thread is evidence, methinks).

Then,, how do you know he's not doing the same stuff right back at you? Your entire meetings could be 'bereft of genuine'.

There's a horse racing bet called a 'Lucky 15'. Four horses,, 15 permutations,, singles, doubles, trebles, etc.

Your strategies, attitudes, post-analysis and amemdments are kinda like that. If he's playing too, the permutations must be too vast to count. How much of it is even 'real'?

How do you hope to reach indifference - or, I prefer, normalisation - while he remains 'special' and you're dedicating all that brainwork to him?

You won't, either.

You're still in recovery. You need to focus, simplify and have a strategy that works for you rather than against you.

You're complicating and improvising with your emotions. You need to simplify and improvise with reality - like you do with everybody else. Gotta un-special him.

By all means go meet him with a determination that you won't let him see you cry, or ONE other thing. Other than that, just wing it. You HAVE to normalise him.

You won't do it overnight. This is akin to trauma, if not residual trauma from your split.

I think you're (still) suffering more than your posts indicate. You're juggling too much at once. Try to simplify it. One plan, one goal at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SepticChange

Decimated said:


> This was a tough and gradual process for me.
> 
> My XWW seemed to always want contact after the D was final...texting, calling and sending me Fakebook messages. She would even lingering in my house, trying to talk to me when she would pickup the kids. She would always try to hug me before she left too. All of this was keeping her in my mind. The truth is, even after what she did, I was still missing her but it had to stop. I understood that her behavior was not to win me back...it was for her. She wanted to keep me in orbit in case things didn't work out in her new single life...a backup plan. Again, as in the final years of our marriage, she was just using me.
> 
> At first this was hard to do but I decided to start by acting indifferent. I started only replying to texts that related to the kids...ignoring the rest. I quit Fakebook. I stopped answering the phone when she would call. I now make sure the kids are packed and ready when she would arrive in order to minimize the face time between us. I changed the pass code to the garage so she can't just walk in. Now when she is there to pick them up I do my best to remain happy and indifferent. I don't talk to her except when its about the kids...and no hugs. She has tried to reel me back in from time to time but I keep the door closed. She tried to hug me a couple weeks ago. I simply said "please don't touch me"
> 
> My goal is Not to get her back but a benefit is that my indifference is really bothering her. She even said that she hates that I wont talk to her.
> 
> Faking this indifference has really working for me. Gradually my feelings for her have dissipated. Now, for the most part, I am genuinely indifferent towards her. I also feel I am much more emotionally stable and happy. :smthumbup:


That's just where I wanna be.


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## SepticChange

Lots of good insight in here. Thanks all. Greg sounds like our exes are alike in the sense that if we started talking regularly again and show the slightest bit of attachment he backed away.


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## Greg1515

SepticChange said:


> Lots of good insight in here. Thanks all. Greg sounds like our exes are alike in the sense that if we started talking regularly again and show the slightest bit of attachment he backed away.


Yeah, I guess they needed that healthy dose of reassurance that "they're not the problem" since we're taking them back, which we eagerly gave them.


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