# Deciding Between 2 Ex-Wives



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

My story is a bit strange. Please forgive me if I ramble too long, but here is the issue I am having problems with. 

I am a 47 year old male. I immigrated to the United States in 1987. I attended and graduated from an eastern US university two years later with a degree in biochemistry. While attending the same university for my master’s degree I met and started dating my first wife “Helen”. Helen was the same age as me and was working her business masters. We dated, fell in love, and in 1990 we were married just a few days after I obtained my US citizenship. 

Helen was my first true love and I poured myself wholeheartedly into the relationship. We both quickly found work after graduating and moved into a nice townhouse together. It seemed like we were set for a bright future. Unfortunately, little did I know that Helen was not as dedicated to our relationship as I was. Within two months of our wedding I caught her at a bar snuggled in a dark corner kissing a stranger. I freaked out, kicked her out of our townhouse and threatened to end the marriage. She begged me not to break up with her, and after a brief separation she moved back in to work on our relationship. However, a few weeks later I caught her having telephone contact with the same man and I asked her again to leave. I immediately called a lawyer and filed for a dissolution or “annulment” -- which she did not contest. During our separation she had sexual relations with several men, while telling me how “sorry” she was for breaking up our brief marriage. Eight months to day from our wedding our marriage was legally ended. 

Heartbroken, I only stayed in that city for a year or so longer, then obtained a transfer to a western branch of my company in California. In 1998 I met my second wife “Rachel” at a friend’s barbecue. Rachel seemed to be everything I was looking for: she was bright, attractive and she even spoke a little Danish: my second language after Faroese (English is my third). We dated for two years and married in 2000. Our marriage was very good for about the first five years, but after three failed attempts at en- vitro fertilization and her inability to get pregnant (not my fault since I am fully functional) our relationship began to sour. 

We stumbled on in what could be described as a friendly, businesslike marriage for the next several years, but by 2011 our relationship had deteriorated to the point where we were more like friendly roommates than husband and wife. In January 2012 Rachael asked me to meet her for lunch and there told me she wanted a divorce. She said she was not happy, and had not been happy for many years. I was saddened but not surprised, for I had often thought of ending the marriage myself. We parted as amicably as two people could and went through mediation and a quick 50/50 split divorce. We remained friends and even went out for lunch on the day our divorce was finalized. 

I felt empty and deflated after my second divorce, and although I didn’t necessarily miss the marriage, I did find myself missing Rachel greatly. I realized too late how much I really did love her, and wished we had put more effort into saving the relationship. 

Fast forward to January of this year and “out of the blue” I received a Facebook message from my first wife Helen. She asked me how I was and for the next three weeks we engaged in a friendly back-and-forth, catching up on our lives. I learned she had spent most of the decade after our divorce moving from place to place, job to job, never settling down. She remarried in 2003, but that marriage only lasted a year and a half. Both she and her second husband cheated on each other. 

In 2006, after suffering a breakdown and urged by her mother to get help, Helen underwent intense counseling to find out why she was prone to cheating and why she had only been in superficial relationships throughout her adult years. During her counseling she discovered that she was actually suffering from PTSD resulting from early childhood physical and sexual abuse suffered at the hands of her father. Her mother had divorced her father when she was nine for this very reason, but apparently Helen had suppressed those memories. For the next three years she underwent intensive counseling, and as a result she says she went through a “transformation”, and as a result she was able to identify the reasons why she cheated on both her marriages, and since that life-altering experience she had taken active steps to deal with her PTSD and reduce its negative effects on her life. 

After about a month of correspondence, Helen and I decided to meet in Virginia in late February of this year while I was there for a one week training conference. She lives in North Carolina, so she drove up the weekend before the conference started and we spent a Saturday afternoon at a sports bar together. I was amazed at how great she looked; in fact she is a knockout! She has taken very good care of herself and looks ten years younger than she is. 

After eating lunch we settled in the lounge for some drinks and there she told me that throwing our marriage away (her actual words, not mine) was the stupidest thing she had ever done and the greatest regret of her life. She went on to tell that after I moved away she had lapsed into a deep depression, got married to her second husband on the rebound, but only went on to make the same bad decisions in her second marriage. 

Then she told me something that threw me for a loop: she still loves me. She told me, tearfully, that she had never stopped loving me and that she feels I am the great love of her life. I was dumbstruck, and then she told me she understood if I did not reciprocate. Well, we spent the rest of the evening talking over old times, had plenty to drink, and before I knew it we were kissing and eventually we made our way back to my hotel where we spent the night rocking the walls having the most mind-blowing sex we ever had. 

She spent the next day with me and drove home that night. As we hugged and kissed in the parking lot I began to feel the old emotions rising to the surface. All those long-suppressed feelings of love and joy that I experienced when we were dating back in the ‘80s were flooding back into me, and as she drove away I had to fight the urge not to jump in my rental car, chase her down and beg her to stay with me. 

In the weeks since our meet-up Helen and I have been texting each other daily. She is planning to fly out and stay with me for her vacation in a couple of weeks. I do feel as if I am falling back in love with her, not to mention looking forward to having more fun in bed with her. 

But here is where things went haywire. This past week Rachel, my second ex-wife, who I had not spoken to since last Christmas, texted me asking me to call her to go over some things she needed from me in order to file her taxes. I called her last Wednesday and we spoke about what she needed, I gave her the information, and then the conversation meandered into how we were doing in our respective lives, how work was going for each of us, etc. The conversation was a pleasant one: just two old friends catching up and laughing about the craziness of life. Then, quite unexpectedly, I heard Rachel start to cry. She then told me she still loves me, wants to see me again and wants us to start dating again and see if we can start fresh with our relationship. She admitted to me that in her own way she had blamed me for her inability to get pregnant and that much of her distance was a result of her anger at herself. She thought she had failed me by not being able to get pregnant, and actually thought she was doing me a favor by divorcing me. I have to admit I broke down and started crying too. 

Rachel still lives here in the same city and she wants us to start dating again. She admitted to me that after moving out she had become involved with another guy prior to our divorced being finished. I did not know this and I admit I was a little pissed. She knew how I had suffered from my first wife’s infidelity and she apologized and insisted that she didn’t meet him until after we had already separated. 

So I am here to ask everyone’s opinion on what I should do. I know this story sounds far-fetched but it is the absolute truth. 
I still love Rachel (2d wife) deeply as a friend and a woman that I shared a decade or more of my life with. Apart from our fertility issues, we did get along very well. But she also was distant and I have to admit our sex life was not great. She is not adventurous sexually, whereas I am very aggressive and like to experiment. She is not a bad looking woman, but she is nowhere near as attractive as Helen. I am also very reluctant to start over with her again as she has proven her apathy in the past.

Helen (1st wife) has recaptured my heart. She is an amazing lover and I am intensely sexually attracted to her. I feel as if I am falling in love with her all over again. And though most of you may doubt it, I do think she is sincere in her desire to get back together with me and perhaps one day even be my full time girlfriend again. And I should point out that she continues to attend counseling weekly for her PTSD and even belongs to some survivors of abuse groups. Another positive is that she is financially independent and makes an income about equivalent to mine. So it’s not my money she is after. But Helen’s track record is where she loses a lot of points. She is a confirmed cheater, and she even admitted to me that she does not deserve my forgiveness for what she did to me all those years ago. 

I need to finish this long narrative by saying that I do not plan on re-marrying either woman. In fact I do not wish or have the desire to get roped into another marriage again. I have found myself enjoying the bachelor life. In fact since my divorce I have lost weight and have been working out daily and I have lots of women hitting me up for dates, so if I chose to play the field my dating life would not be centered on my two ex-wives. I have options. But now I have these two women who I care about in different ways both wanting to be with me. 

1) Which one should I choose? 

2) Should I date both of them and not tell them about the other (I don’t like this idea). 

3) Or should I avoid both of them, remain friends, and date other women?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

There's more than one reason why each of these women are exes

Avoid both!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm going with "avoid both" as well...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

I have to agree with Toffer, move forward not back. Enjoy your single life, meet new people, enjoy new relationships. There's very good reasons both of your wives are exes.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I need to finish this long narrative by saying that I do not plan on re-marrying either woman. In fact I do not wish or have the desire to get roped into another marriage again. I have found myself enjoying the bachelor life


This says it all. If you go with either, eventually they'll want more than what you're willing to offer.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

None of the above...although #3 comes the closest.

a.) Quit seeing EITHER of them, and cancel the upcoming trip by Helen.

b.) Never mind "remaining friends" with either of them; they're NOT your friends...they're your EX-WIVES. For a reason. 

c.) Get YOURSELF into IC and figure out *why* YOU have had two unsuccessful relationships. You're awfully quick to fault these women for your marriages problems; and maybe it's factually TRUE. But then *I* would have to ask, 'what is wrong with YOU that you attract such emotionally messed-up women'? Do YOU know? No, you do not.

Helen CLAIMS she has made substantial changes in herself since your marriage broke up.

Rachel has changed NOTHING about herself since your marriage exploded.

YOU have changed NOTHING about yourself since either of your marriages exploded.

SO....WHY do you EXPECT that EITHER relationship will be substantially different/better/right THIS TIME AROUND when YOU'VE done NO WORK and neither has Rachel? Helen CLAIMS she has....

Get into IC and do NOT have a SERIOUS relationship with ANY WOMAN until you can acknowledge, own, change YOUR behaviors that led to the demise of both of your marriages.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

1) Helen is a *no*!

2) Rachel is a *maybe*.

3) You're a *big yes* for IC and and reading some of the books about relationships recommended by the members on this site.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Thank you all for your replies. I was not expecting to be called out for my own behavior, but you are all right. Much of my marital problems, at least in my second marriage, were prtly my fault. 

Rachel told me often that one of the things she did not like about me was my passive nature and my problem with making decisions. I admit I let her make most of the big decisions in our marriage and looking back I can see where she grew to resent that. 

I will not however take responsibility for Helen's cheating. We were not married long enough for me to prove my worth, or lack thereof, as a husband. She admitted to me when we reunited in February that she had physically cheated on me before and during the time we were married with the same guy I caught her with. For the brief time we were tyogether I thought I was doing everything right. To Helen's credit, she answered every question I put to her that evening without flinching, although she did break down crying a couple of times. 

But be that as it may, I think you all have good points. I do need to work on my issues and find out what I'm lacking in husband material. I know my passivity is one thing I need to work on. I also need to work on my social skills. I think one reason I leaned on Rachel so much was due to cultural reasons. I was still adjusting to American culture, even though I have embraced it totally, and I tended to let her take the lead whenever we were in social situations. She often told me she did not like the fact that I was so shy and quiet. In reality, my English was not good and I was very self conscious about it.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Here is a site you might take a look at. Take the quiz, see where you stand. 

No More Mr. Nice Guy

This is a read for you.......
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

There a forum there too.
No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin

Open your eyes......


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

You're a glutton for punishment.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

First, any man who says the infertility was "her" problem and does not see it as "their" problem really has no understanding of true love and commitment. You need to understand that you played a role in the failure of your 2nd marriage, and you apparently married a woman the first time without knowing her well enough to see that something was off. Did you rush into it? Were you eager to be in a relationship and therefore not observant enough? 

Having said that, move on. Do not go backwards. And don't get involved again until you figure out why YOU have been divorced twice.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Yes maybe I am a glutton for punishment. 

Sisters359, you are right that I rushed into marriage with Helen. Looking back, there were signs during the time we were dating that should have led me to believe she was unfaithful but I chose to ignore them. I guess because I have always been the kind of person to trust others blindly. Maybe she was attracted to me being a bit of a pushover. I don't know why she cheated on me with the other guy, because I was physically stronger and better looking than him. I was a rower in my youth and continued on a crew in univeristy so I was in excellent shape. The guy she cheated with was a boozy, long haired, heavy metal type guy. 

As for Rachel I will defend myself by saying I was always supportive and caring during our fertilyzation attempts. We spent five years trying everything to get pregnant and I spent thousands of dollars on treatments to no avail. After the third en-vitro failure to concieve, Rachel told me she did not want to try anymore, and that's when tha marriage started to go stale. I would have kept trying but she did not want to anymore. 

Anyway, I downloaded No More Mr. Nice Guy last night and will start reading it today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Iwant2know (Dec 19, 2012)

Avoid both because as you said, you have no intentions of remarrying either one. To me, both of them are a "dead end streets." Finally, it is not fair to Rachel or Helen and you would not want anyone to lead you down a dead end street.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

I never thought I would ever be faced with this situation. 

My issue with Helen is that she has already purchased her tickets. So she is going to be very upset. I think turning her away is going to be harder to do because I am so attracted to her and there is a definite energy between us. 

As for Rachel, she has not called me like she said she would this week. I'm wondering if maybe she is having second thoufhts about us getting together in person. 

Anyway, I have read the first chapter of NMMNG and I am really feeling angry about myself. The nice guy description the book gives fits me to a T.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Just keep in mind that you are the backup plan for your first wife. You're the nice stable guy who can pay the bills and treat her right. This doesn't equate to true love. You will always have doubts about her.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Who's Sarah? I only saw Rachel and Helen?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I'm missing something. 

Who is ******?

:scratchhead:


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Sorry, I meant Rachel. These are not my exes real names. They are pseudonyms. Not paying attention to myself. I'll go back and fix my post.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

I also forgot to mention that I was diagnosed with adult ADD seven years ago. So I have issues with keeping track of things and forgetting stuff, and that used to drive Rachel bonkers. I am on meds for it now and they help a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Helen can come so you can share your feelings with her in person. Lay it all out and be honest. Tell her you would like to be friends but it won't be any more than that, and why. 

This will be difficult since you have such an attraction to her, but really it needs to be out there once and for all.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Enginerd said:


> Just keep in mind that you are the backup plan for your first wife. You're the nice stable guy who can pay the bills and treat her right. This doesn't equate to true love. You will always have doubts about her.


That's my fear. I shouldn't allow her such easy access to my heart. But boy I sure do like the sex. Its going to be hard to say no to her, but looking at the big picture I am coming to realise I cannot give into her again. I have to figure something out. 

The selfish, lustful side of me wants to have Helen come stay with me for her vacation so I can sleep with her. But my head and my intuition are telling me not to do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

A Bit Much said:


> Helen can come so you can share your feelings with her in person. Lay it all out and be honest. Tell her you would like to be friends but it won't be any more than that, and why.
> 
> This will be difficult since you have such an attraction to her, but really it needs to be out there once and for all.


You're right.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think it would be pretty rude to have someone come out to see you only to tell them when they got there that you only want to be friends. She might be able to rebook her flights somewhere else, she wouldn't burn holiday time, etc. Tell her now if you're not interested.

C


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> LostViking:
> The selfish, lustful side of me wants to have Helen come stay with me for her vacation so I can sleep with her. But my head and my intuition are telling me not to do it.


Tell the lustful side that HE won't be the one paying 18 years of child support for a kid you're rarely ever gonna see if you knock her up by accident!

PBear is right! It's SELFISH to have her fly out ONLY to tell her, 'We're NEVER getting back together, but you wanna have sex for old times' sake?'

Tell Helen NOW that she needs to cancel her trip.

Unfriend ALL your exes (wives, girlfriends, whatevers) from ALL your social networking. Leave the past IN the past.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Well, after listening to all your advice and thinking about all the things she put me through all those many year ago, I called Helen last night and told her that I couldn't see her anymore. She's cancelling her flight. Done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I think you did the right thing. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

It stinks because I really felt I was falling in love again. Its a great feeling. But I'm glad I did it. I'm relieved but sad too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

Good call. The big brain did not get fooled by the little brain. Now go find someone to date casually for a while. Good Luck.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

The little brain wants sex however.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

LostViking said:


> The little brain wants sex however.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then take the little brain out for a night on the town, and meet someone new. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Doing that tonight. Rachel never did call or try to contact me so I guess she was never sincere or she had a change of heart. I worry about her. She doesn't seem to be doing well. 

But I must detach. And if she eventually does call I will break it off for good. I've done a lot of thinking about our marriage, the mistakes I made, and despite my flaws I can honestly say I wasn't a bad husband. I just don't think Rachel and I ever had the kind of passion early on to set the stage for an intimate relationship. I know I could have done more, but so could she have.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm sorry. I didn't think my suggestion of flying her out was rude or selfish, I was thinking that if it were me, I would want to know something that important face to face. I'm in the minority with that one.

It looks like calling her worked, so great. Time to move forward. Good luck to you.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

I knew if I let her come see me then the little brain would have taken over and I would not have been able to call it off. It was a very hard phone call to make.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Helen's timing was amazing. Did you change your FB to single just before she called?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

LostViking said:


> 1) Which one should I choose?
> 
> *Neither. Even though you have fond feelings, both you AND they will have lingering, unhealed wounds that will reopen over time.*
> 
> ...


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## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

You aren't married to either of them, so why make a commitment now?

Enjoy your single life and date both of them! But I would wait a looooong time before I would consider marrying either of them again.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I say go with what others have already mentioned - avoid both.

Especially the first one, she sounds like a serial cheater


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Viking:

You're 2 weeks out from your original post! How is the reading coming?

Do you feel you know MORE (although certainly not anywhere NEAR enough) about yourself now?

Imagine how emotionally strong and healthy you will feel by October 1st when you are 6 months into the journey to rebuild yourself! You should make a note on your calendar to come back here in the beginning of October JUST so you CAN READ this thread. Hopefully, you will laugh and say, "Holy crap! What was I thinking?!?" You will be so much better off, you won't believe it!


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Viking:
> 
> You're 2 weeks out from your original post! How is the reading coming?
> 
> ...


I am feeling much better about the whole thing. And I am moving on with life. 

Rachel never did call me back. I never got a text or anything. So the sorrow she was feeling must have been a fleeting thing. I don't really care now. I've had time to reflect back on the last lear and I am convinced our divorce was the right decision.

Helen actually texted me yesterday. Nothing regarding getting back together or seeing each other again. Just small talk. She wants us to be penpals of sorts, to just text and occasionally e-mail each other. I texted her back that this would be fine but that a long distance friendship is all I wanted. 

Despite her cheating past, I really want to give Helen the benefit of the doubt. I do believe she was sincere in her apolgy to me, and I also believe she is working hard to get control of her issues. But I will never get back together with her. To much risk.

I actually have a date set up this Saturday with a very attractive woman who is a receptionist for one of my clients. I have been chatting her up for weeks and there is some chemistry there so....


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

LostViking said:


> I am feeling much better about the whole thing. And I am moving on with life.
> 
> Rachel never did call me back. I never got a text or anything. So the sorrow she was feeling must have been a fleeting thing. I don't really care now. I've had time to reflect back on the last lear and I am convinced our divorce was the right decision.
> 
> ...


Nice! :smthumbup:


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Yes.

She is a lovely woman. So I'm going tonight to get a nice set of summer clothes to wear when I take her out. I'm very clothing poor.

Well, I guess I will wrap up this thread. It was short, but I thank all of you for giving me a good smack in the head when I needed it. I'm sure you all saved me alot of grief. 

I'm moving forwards, not backwards.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Helen's timing was amazing. Did you change your FB to single just before she called?


I'm sorry I never answered this LongWalk. 

Yes,I'm sure Helen saw that I was recently divorced, and that was indeed why she got in touch with me. I'm positive in fact. 

I really do feel bad for her, despite the pain she put me through so long ago. She has led a very lonely life since then.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Helen, despite her hot bod, has way too much baggage. You'd have to be a masochist to take a second shot at life with her.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Helen, despite her hot bod, has way too much baggage. You'd have to be a masochist to take a second shot at life with her.


Alas, you are probably correct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

So, I need to ask my TAM pals what you think of this:

Helen and I have been carrying on a friendly long distance correspondence by way of Facetime, e-mails and text. We have seen each other in person twice since the last time I posted. Both times she has travelled out here to California for work purposes, and she has stayed at my place both times. Each time we would spend the evenings and part of a weekend together before she would have to fly home. 

These visits were very enjoyable for both of us. We have alot of fun together, the sex is truly epic, and I feel like we are alot more comfortable around each other than we were back two decades ago when we were young and stupid and knew nothing about life. It is a very nice FWB relationship. 

Helen has talked long and hard about the changes she has made in her life and we have had several teary-eyed chats on Facetime about the demons she has fought and vanquished over the last ten years of her self-reconstruction. She knows what she has done wrong in her past, and, even better, she knows why, and now has the means and tools to avoid self destructive behavior.

I am not inclined to ever remarry her. I do still love her to a certain degree, both as a friend and as her ex-husband. But I have made it clear to her that I am never marrying again, not her or anyone else. I enjoy being a bachelor, enjoy my freedom, and enjoy having the option of dating whomever I want whenever I want. 

But I hate myself right now because I think I am being selfish. She comes to see me on her own volition, instigates sex every time, and seems to honestly enpoy being with me. But I cannot help but feel she wants more of a relationship than I am willing or able to give her. I do not believe I am leading her on because I have told her of my feelings and that I have no intention of going into a deeper relationship with her. Yet I cannot escape the feeling that I am becoming alot more to her than she is to me, and I do not want to string her along. 

We are planning a trip to the Carribean together next month for a week. She gets frequent flyer miles and really good vacation perks from her job, so the vacation has almost paid for itself. It should be a hell of a lot of fun, but I am worried that if I go she will think that it means more than it does. I have asked her so, and she insists that she knows this will not change the status-quo of our friendship. 

But my gut tells me otherwise. 

What do you all think? Come on....sock it to me.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I think both you and Helen have issues with boundaries.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

What happened to the receptionist? I feel sorry for Helen. It sounds like she is lonely and would like to have a new relationship with you. She'll probably be heartbroken the day you meet someone new....

On the other hand, the kind of attraction you are describing sounds so intense that any other woman would probably be second best, right? Maybe she is the one.... If she is than you'll just have to take the risk of getting back together with her and see what happens...

I guess I kind of believe in fairy tales and all that stuff......


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Rowan said:


> I think both you and Helen have issues with boundaries.


Ya think? Tell me about it.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Omego said:


> What happened to the receptionist? I feel sorry for Helen. It sounds like she is lonely and would like to have a new relationship with you. She'll probably be heartbroken the day you meet someone new....
> 
> On the other hand, the kind of attraction you are describing sounds so intense that any other woman would probably be second best, right? Maybe she is the one.... If she is than you'll just have to take the risk of getting back together with her and see what happens...
> 
> I guess I kind of believe in fairy tales and all that stuff......



I feel sorry for Helen too. Not only because of what she has gone through due to some poor choices in her past, but the fact that she has worked hard to become a better person and life just hasn't doled out the rewards to her that she should be reaping. 

That's why I feel like such a selfish fvck. She tells me she understands that I am not looking to go deeper with her, but it is like she's playing a waiting game with me. To see if I crack and change my mind. 

And I am intensely attracted to her. She is a beautiful woman.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> I feel sorry for Helen too. Not only because of what she has gone through due to some poor choices in her past, but the fact that she has worked hard to become a better person and life just hasn't doled out the rewards to her that she should be reaping.
> 
> That's why I feel like such a selfish fvck. She tells me she understands that I am not looking to go deeper with her, but it is like she's playing a waiting game with me. To see if I crack and change my mind.
> 
> And I am intensely attracted to her. She is a beautiful woman.



Are you SURE you don't want a new relationship with her? You sound undecided for sure! On the other hand, you've been honest with her and if she wants to continue in a non-committed relationship that's her choice.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Omego said:


> Are you SURE you don't want a new relationship with her? You sound undecided for sure! On the other hand, you've been honest with her and if she wants to continue in a non-committed relationship that's her choice.


I guess that's the issue. I'm torn. there is a part of me that likes being in a monogamous relationship...maybe not marriage, but coming home to the same partner every night and having someone to snuggle with in bed is really, really nice...probably the best thing in the world. 

That was one HARD thing about going through my divorce with Rachel. Even though our marriage had gone stale, those last few months together we still held each other at night. I miss that closeness. 

But then there is the new me that I am enjoying being alot. I'm single, I make a good salary, own my own ridiculously overpriced West Coast condo, drive a nice sports car... I'm living the bachelor life that always intrigued me when I was young and dumb. I don't want to give this up right now, not for a long time anyway. 

Helen is everything I would want in a wife...except that she has this huge "A" scar on her breast that will always be there and will be hard for me to forget. She hurt me bad when she fvcked me over the first time. It took me years to get over that. Hell, I'm still not over it really -- else I would not be in IC or here on TAM.


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## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

LostViking said:


> Helen is everything I would want in a wife...except that she has this huge "A" scar on her breast that will always be there and will be hard for me to forget. She hurt me bad when she fvcked me over the first time. It took me years to get over that. Hell, I'm still not over it really -- else I would not be in IC or here on TAM.


Just curious, when I read this, I just think to myself that possibly you might be setting her up. But also, it does seem like you truly do enjoy time with her.

But if you feel you are still trying to get over how badly she hurt you, you aren't setting up to hurt her as a little retribution?


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

LostViking said:


> I guess that's the issue. I'm torn. there is a part of me that likes being in a monogamous relationship...maybe not marriage, but coming home to the same partner every night and having someone to snuggle with in bed is really, really nice...probably the best thing in the world.
> 
> That was one HARD thing about going through my divorce with Rachel. Even though our marriage had gone stale, those last few months together we still held each other at night. I miss that closeness.
> 
> ...


If you're torn, then let her go and continue to live the carefree bachelor life. You want the snuggles and regular companionship without the monogamy? Not gonna work. Not fair to anyone.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

CalBanker said:


> Just curious, when I read this, I just think to myself that possibly you might be setting her up. But also, it does seem like you truly do enjoy time with her.
> 
> But if you feel you are still trying to get over how badly she hurt you, you aren't setting up to hurt her as a little retribution?


I don't think so. I don't harbor any anger. I think its just pure lust that's keeping me in this. If you could only see what she looks like in a bikini....holy moley....

And I do enjoy being with her. If she relocated here to California, we would probably go exclusive BF/GF. But I don't want to get shackled with marriage again, and its not just out of fear of getting cheated on. Marriage is a hassle and divorce even more so. I miss the companionship but I don't miss being married.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

yeah_right said:


> If you're torn, then let her go and continue to live the carefree bachelor life. You want the snuggles and regular companionship without the monogamy? *Not gonna work. Not fair to anyone*.


Oh c'mon! Is it too much to ask?  

Yeah I know. This relationship is most likely doomed. I just need to figure a way to ease us out of it without hurting her.


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## badcompany (Aug 4, 2010)

Lostviking, being your in Cali I understand you not wanting to get married again. Woman sleeps around then takes 1/2 your everything plus alimony no thanks. If its more than an FWB relationship though, there is no reason you can't be exclusive BF/GF and have a good relationship unless you just don't want to.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

badcompany said:


> Lostviking, being your in Cali I understand you not wanting to get married again. Woman sleeps around then takes 1/2 your everything plus alimony no thanks. If its more than an FWB relationship though, *there is no reason you can't be exclusive BF/GF and have a good relationship unless you just don't want to*.


I was fortunate that Rachel made almost as much salary as I did, so the alimony I pay each month is very little. 

Biggest problem with Helen and I is distance. She lives back east and I'm here in California. She is six years or so away from retirement so she can't relocate. If she were here we would probably be dating exclusively. My attitude towards the relationship would also be different. 

But she dates and sleeps with other men where she lives and I date and sleep with other women here. She's not holding out or staying celibate in hope's I will want to get serious. 

So we are in this odd long-distance, holding pattern, FWB-but-dating-others type relationship.


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## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

LostViking said:


> I don't think so. I don't harbor any anger. I think its just pure lust that's keeping me in this. If you could only see what she looks like in a bikini....holy moley....
> 
> And I do enjoy being with her. If she relocated here to California, we would probably go exclusive BF/GF. But I don't want to get shackled with marriage again, and its not just out of fear of getting cheated on. Marriage is a hassle and divorce even more so. I miss the companionship but I don't miss being married.


If she is still on another coast but is willing to come visit you when possible and you want to get together or a vacation or two a year, what is wrong with that. You can still live your likestyle and enjoy her from time to time too. Has she mentioned that she may want more?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I would choose door number 3. Find someone who may one day be your third ex!


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> I would choose door number 3. Find someone who may one day be your third ex!


Wise words.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

My opinion is "enjoy each other"-----no pressure! Have fun and don't over-think it right now.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

CalBanker said:


> If she is still on another coast but is willing to come visit you when possible and you want to get together or a vacation or two a year, what is wrong with that. You can still live your likestyle and enjoy her from time to time too. Has she mentioned that she may want more?


She has stated repeatedly she does not want more than what we have, but my gut tells me otherwise. 

At first, when we first reconnected and those old feelings came rushing back, she was really pressuring me to give her a chance at R. But after a few months of correspondence and having spent some more time together, I think she has calmed own alot and has settled into just having this pseudo-boyfriend-ex-husband on the West Coast who she gets to visit and sleep with while she is out here on business. Back home, she leads a very active, independent life. I don't think she want's to give that up. 

But then, out of the blue, she'll say she still loves me. That's where I get crossways. Sometimes I get pissed at her because she'll say it at the most inopportune moments.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

From one 47yr old man to another...go take the trip and have fun.

She is a grown women plus she gets proffessional help/advise so she is well aware/self aware..I'm sure.

Dude a weeks worth of great sex at a b1tchin local...you'd be an idiot not to. Especially if you go dutch

Plus the free airfare.

Dude I want to be you!


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## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

LostViking said:


> She has stated repeatedly she does not want more than what we have, but my gut tells me otherwise.
> 
> At first, when we first reconnected and those old feelings came rushing back, she was really pressuring me to give her a chance at R. But after a few months of correspondence and having spent some more time together, I think she has calmed own alot and has settled into just having this pseudo-boyfriend-ex-husband on the West Coast who she gets to visit and sleep with while she is out here on business. Back home, she leads a very active, independent life. I don't think she want's to give that up.
> 
> But then, out of the blue, she'll say she still loves me. That's where I get crossways. Sometimes I get pissed at her because she'll say it at the most inopportune moments.


Sometimes as I read, I get the feeling that you want to be with her badly. I guess since she is on another coast, don't have to worry about being tied down with her, just keep going as it is.

Actually though, are you the one that feels you are going to get hurt again? Are you falling for her all over again and you want more?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> My opinion is "enjoy each other"-----no pressure! Have fun and don't over-think it right now.


That is what we are doing. 

But as for overthinking? I'm an engineer. Overthinking is what I do best. It is hard not to.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

@WNBH, I wish I could hit the like button twice


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Why Not Be Happy? said:


> My opinion is "enjoy each other"-----no pressure! Have fun and don't over-think it right now.


:iagree:


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

the guy said:


> From one 47yr old man to another...go take the trip and have fun.
> 
> She is a grown women plus she gets proffessional help/advise so she is well aware/self aware..I'm sure.
> 
> ...


We're going to the Caymans.  And my friend you should see her in her new thong bikini. She sent me a pic of her in it this morning. My desk almost tipped over. 

I'm "stoked", as the surfers say it.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

CalBanker said:


> Sometimes as I read, I get the feeling that you want to be with her badly. I guess since she is on another coast, don't have to worry about being tied down with her, just keep going as it is.
> 
> Actually though, are you the one that feels you are going to get hurt again? Are you falling for her all over again and you want more?


Do you think its transferrence? 

Maybe so. I have thought about that. She is a beautiful charming woman who is hard not to fall in love with. 

Maybe it is all me.


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## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

What a sweet dilemma. I wouldn't do it because I cannot separate sex from love, and I would be thinking about you all day long, wondering what you were doing, who you were dating, and how lovely it would be to recreate the past and get it right this time.

But if you think that both you and she can avoid entangling emotions, go for it! Lucky guy to have such a problem.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

LostViking said:


> We're going to the Caymans.  And my friend you should see her in her new thong bikini. She sent me a pic of her in it this morning. My desk almost tipped over.
> 
> I'm "stoked", as the surfers say it.


That was going to be my next question...if she was a two piece kind of girl or a one piece...

Two piece is the only way to go.

dont forget to google topless beachs and pools..that should be starting point in finding a good resort

May I recommend and all inclusive resort its nice not having to carry cash around all the time


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

And dont go during hurricane season.
I forgot when that is put check it out


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

CalBanker said:


> Sometimes as I read, I get the feeling that you want to be with her badly. I guess since she is on another coast, don't have to worry about being tied down with her, just keep going as it is.
> 
> Actually though, are you the one that feels you are going to get hurt again? Are you falling for her all over again and you want more?


It's not a good situation. Not that I can talk, but the other party is on the other coast because they have their life exactly how they want it. You play a role, but you will not play the role you want to play. All you can do is remove yourself or let her know you are working your outside options and show her that her priority has dropped. She gets to eat cake right now with no repurcussions.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

the guy said:


> That was going to be my next question...if she was a two piece kind of girl or a one piece...
> 
> Two piece is the only way to go.
> 
> ...


That's excatly what we're doing. We're staying at the Beach Club Colony Resort on Grand Cayman. It is a club specifically catering to divers, which Helen and I are both into. As part of the package we will be going diving with a guide for two of the five days. We also get dinners and drinks as part of it. 

I kicked in some extra money and upgraded to a jacuzzi suite. She won't be able to walk straight after we get back to the states.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

treyvion said:


> It's not a good situation. Not that I can talk, but the other party is on the other coast because they have their life exactly how they want it. You play a role, but you will not play the role you want to play. All you can do is remove yourself or let her know you are working your outside options and show her that her priority has dropped. She gets to eat cake right now with no repurcussions.


Good reality check. Thanks T. 

I'm not sure its a "bad" situation per se. We are both getting something out of it. But I'm not walking into it blindly, believe me. I still have my guard up and she can sense it. She knows all about my options and I have no problem reminding her.


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## CalBanker (Oct 8, 2013)

LostViking said:


> Good reality check. Thanks T.
> 
> I'm not sure its a "bad" situation per se. We are both getting something out of it. But I'm not walking into it blindly, believe me. I still have my guard up and she can sense it. She knows all about my options and I have no problem reminding her.


If you are doing all this and have your guard up and are not going to hurt yourself and you think she isn't prepared to give up her freedom. Then have a blast!


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

LV, the facts as I see them are:

You are very much still in love with her
She appears to be in love with you
This new relationship appears to work well while you are at either end of the country but not really tested in closer, longer term quarters.
You sleep with others and she sleeps with others - so I am not sure how the "in love" with each other works
She is a bombshell and will continue to attract male attention on a major scale - not sure how she would cope with exclusivity after all these years of "freedom"
You seem (and I maybe wrong here) to be more in love with her than she is with you
You do not want to get married so why make it more than it is unless you get really lonely, in which case I would say go find someone who has a better chance of being your long term companion - if you sincerely think this might be Helen and you are willing to whether a storm if it doesn't work out, then go for it.

I would just enjoy this for what it is but protect your heart - you don't know how this would work out if she were to move closer to you.

Good luck!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

LostViking said:


> I am not inclined to ever remarry her. I do still love her to a certain degree, both as a friend and as her ex-husband. But I have made it clear to her that I am never marrying again, not her or anyone else. I enjoy being a bachelor, enjoy my freedom, and enjoy having the option of dating whomever I want whenever I want.
> 
> But I cannot help but feel she wants more of a relationship than I am willing or able to give her. I* do not believe I am leading her on because I have told her of my feelings and that I have no intention of going into a deeper relationship with her.* Yet I cannot escape the feeling that I am becoming alot more to her than she is to me, and I do not want to string her along.
> 
> We are planning a trip to the Carribean together next month for a week. It should be a hell of a lot of fun,* but I am worried that if I go she will think that it means more than it does. I have asked her so, and she insists that she knows this will not change the status-quo of our friendship. *


First of all, you have alrady told her point blank you are not marrying her or anyone else. good for you.

Second of all, this isn't a "friendship." You guys have a history, you are exes, ex spouses, even! And you are sleeping together. *You are not "friends."* Don't try to play it that way. 

Thirdly, it seems you already told her so what else can you do? If you are uncomfortable w/ pursing things further than just let her know. If you just want to sleep with her, then let her know. Don't lie and be honest. If you need to end it, let her know. 



Married but Happy said:


> I would choose door number 3. Find someone who may one day be your third ex!


:smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

LostViking said:


> But then, out of the blue, she'll say she still loves me. That's where I get crossways. Sometimes I get pissed at her because she'll say it at the most inopportune moments.


You can't control how she feels or get mad at her for being honest with you. I mean, you are sleeping with her and carrying on like nothing is even happening. The fact that you guys were MARRIED means there was a LOT of love there at one point. I am of the thinking that if you truly loved someone, that love never really goes away. 



LostViking said:


> Yeah I know. This relationship is most likely doomed. I just need to figure a way to ease us out of it without hurting her.


If you really feel this way, then tell her.

What do you WANT, LostViking? Cause there is a lot of back and forth in your posts.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> You can't control how she feels or get mad at her for being honest with you. I mean, you are sleeping with her and carrying on like nothing is even happening. The fact that you guys were MARRIED means there was a LOT of love there at one point. I am of the thinking that if you truly loved someone, that love never really goes away.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I probably have fallen in love with her again and I'm in denial. I'm such a dumbfvck. 

Problem is...I remember so vividly what she did to me all those many years ago...how she ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I think of who and what she was then, and then I look at her now, and she is so fundementally different as a person on so many levels that she really is a different human being now living in the same body. 

It is like she has changed so much it is almost unfair of me to compare her to what she used to be. But that's what I'm doing. I'm so fvcking gun-shy, thinking that she will pull the same sh!t again, that I don't want to commit my heart totally. 

I don't know if she has as intense feelings towards me as I do her, but the fact that she has been the one doing the initiating and pursuing throughout this new relationship tells me she is wanting to make that reconnect. In the end she is choosing to be with me. 

She makes more money than I do, is a mid-level manager for her company, and has lived on her own for more than a decade... so she is not looking for a man to support her. So barring the financial aspect, the only other thing I can think that would make her want to pursue me is a real, honest desire for a LTR.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

LostViking said:


> I probably have fallen in love with her again and I'm in denial. I'm such a dumbfvck. .


Don't get down on yourself. You're human. It's ok to love someone. Truly.



LostViking said:


> She makes more money than I do, is a mid-level manager for her company, and has lived on her own for more than a decade... so she is not looking for a man to support her. So barring the financial aspect, the only other thing I can think that would make her want to pursue me is a real, honest desire for a LTR.


Wait, this makes me wonder. Do some men think that because a woman may make less $ than them, she is only looking for a financial sugar daddy? I ask because I have dated men who made more $ than me but I am a working professional and own my own home and would never date a guy for his cashmoney. I can handle my own. Sorry, kind of offtopic. I am going to start a thread about this.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Wait, this makes me wonder. Do some men think that because a woman may make less $ than them, she is only looking for a financial sugar daddy? I ask because I have dated men who made more $ than me but I am a working professional and own my own home and would never date a guy for his cashmoney. I can handle my own. Sorry, kind of offtopic. I am going to start a thread about this.


I think there is indeed a mindset among some men that when a woman pursues you that it cannot just be for your personality or looks alone. 

Women are pragmatic creatures, and security (financial and emotional) is one HUGE thing that many younger women look for in a potential mate. I have read studies where security is at the top of some women's lists of what they look for in a mate, whereas men look more at superficial sexual compatability (i.e will she bear me healthy children?).

But I think as women get older, get more established in their careers and become more independent, they tend not to dwell on the security aspect so much, and concentrate more on the compatability and companionship. 

Maybe I'm wrong. But I think that is where Helen is with me right now. She doeesn't want, or need, my support or provision of financial security.


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

They both cheated on you. So they're both 'out'. 

However, If you could date Helen for a little bit of fun and old times, without falling back in love, I'd say go for it. However, you're already feeling those feelings, thus you could be vulnerable and get back into a mess.


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

Helen is falling in love with you again ...

Women who are falling in love don't sleep with other men. Be careful here. Do be honest with yourself, if someone else wrote this post instead of you, what would you say to that guy.


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## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

Set up a threesome with them. See if they'll compete for you love and affection. Then after you have banged each of them, go into the bathroom, get dressed, come out and say "Sorry ladies but neither of you meet my expectations", and leave.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

LostViking said:


> I probably have fallen in love with her again and I'm in denial. I'm such a dumbfvck. I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one.
> 
> Problem is...I remember so vividly what she did to me all those many years ago...how she ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I think of who and what she was then, and then I look at her now, and she is so fundementally different as a person on so many levels that she really is a different human being now living in the same body. Really? Cuz from over here, you just look like her West Coast fvck-buddy! Whom is she seeing/dating/screwing on the East Coast? And what is she telling HIM? (exclusive/love you/you're special/blah, blah, blah)
> 
> ...


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

(a little humor lostviking) but lose helen faster than you can shake a stick. she does want a relationship with you and bet if you asked her to live with you she would so my point anyone willingly to move to california is so messed in the head it is scary.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Kaci said:


> They both cheated on you. So they're both 'out'.


Did Rachel cheat? I don't recall reading anything about the second wife cheating on LostViking.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

LostViking said:


> I probably have fallen in love with her again and I'm in denial. I'm such a dumbfvck.
> 
> Problem is...I remember so vividly what she did to me all those many years ago...how she ripped my heart out and stomped on it. I think of who and what she was then, and then I look at her now, and she is so fundementally different as a person on so many levels that she really is a different human being now living in the same body.
> 
> ...


You could always ask if she wants a LTR or not, and ask whether or not she is sleeping with other people. Simple as that. Heck, you only live once, I'd say go for it.

Also, based on the way you describe the situation, are you even emotionally available to date other women?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> Did Rachel cheat? I don't recall reading anything about the second wife cheating on LostViking.


We slept with other people after filing for divorce. She went first with a coworker. After she found out I slept with someone she suddenly decided she did not like that and asked that we both abstain from dating until the D was finalized.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

*


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## Kaci (Mar 11, 2013)

Coffee Amore said:


> Did Rachel cheat? I don't recall reading anything about the second wife cheating on LostViking.


I read the post incorrectly. Rachel started dating after they separated. Rachel seems more stable than the first wife, she isn't a serial cheater. She's someone who had a sad marriage, not because of her husband, but the fact that she couldn't have children. So, did she leave behind her sad past or her husband?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Rachel never physically cheated on me during the marriage. By the time we filed for the D we had both checked out emotionally, myself more than her. Right before we filed she admitted that there was a guy at work she was attracted to and wanted to date. I gave her my blessing. At that point I no longer cared.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

I think you should find a younger woman who you can love and have kids. Kids can enrich your life immensely. Better than trying to recapture the past.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

I have no desire for kids at this point. And younger women have no advantage over women of my age group. I prefer gals in their 40s.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for the responses everyone. I've got a lot to think about.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Well, all I can add is that I have read many of your posts in various threads, and you are a "Tell it like it is guy". So my advice to you is to do what LostViking would tell you to do if this was someone else's thread ! LOL !


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

You know, I try to be strong, I try to be the one with my head screwed on straight....

Then yesterday Helen sends me an E-Card for Christmas, with her laying on her bed wearing _nothing_ but a red velvet bow around her waist. 

Sighhhhhh....


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Merry Christmas. 

Much better than the framed picture that my wife gave me about the importance of forgiveness.


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## oscuranotte (Dec 8, 2013)

I have to say "neither," as well. Helen might only be attractive to you because it's been so long, and she seems new and different. You didn't really praise any real identifiable or specific characteristics or values of either Rachel or Helen -- outside of good/bad sex, cheating and counseling. You didn't say Rachel is great because/Helen is great because. You only praised Helen because she's way more attractive, but you gave her way more positive notes while giving Rachel mostly negative notes. But the positives you gave Helen aren't that deep.

Basically, you haven't really indicated deeper affections outside of saying you love, and your heart is being captured. The only thing you really delved into was sex. Now, I know guys are just simpler than us gals, but reading your post, it sounds a lot like lust. You're confusing lust for love. Let the endorphins die down first, then come back and run a tally of the two (LOL). Never trust those endorphins.

As for Helen and Rachel. I think sometimes it's harder for us women to move on and let go than it is for men. I think their story is just that: they're having a hard time moving on; hence, you should move forward. You can see the signs in the things you wrote. 

If you want to have fun with Helen, go ahead but be honest. You don't want a relationship right now, or you don't want to get married, or whatever it is that you want. Explain to her that you think it's just nostalgia or lust. But you don't really want either of them, or at least, it doesn't read that way.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

LostViking said:


> You know, I try to be strong, I try to be the one with my head screwed on straight....
> 
> Then yesterday Helen sends me an E-Card for Christmas, with her laying on her bed wearing _nothing_ but a red velvet bow around her waist.
> 
> Sighhhhhh....


LV, who TOOK the picture?


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

doubletrouble said:


> LV, who TOOK the picture?


:rofl:

I asked her that first thing! 

It was a selfie. She propped her camera on the dresser across from her bed. There is a mirrored closet door behind her. If someone else was there the reflection would have shown him, so she was telling the truth.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

wuyan said:


> I don't think Helen is ever going to be change, she will always cheat. I know several woman like Helen, never stop cheating


Despite all the good changes she has made, I think you are probably right. That's why I would never marry her again or get into an exclusive relationship with her again, and she knows that. 

But, having said that, I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt and keep seeing her in a FWB/LDR. 

Why? Simple. She makes me happy when we are together. We have alot of fun, have the same interests, like the same food, etc.

Is she a proven cheater? Yes. I'm not blind to her issues. But at least now the cards are on the table and we are not lying to each other. Back where she lives she dates other men, and sleeps with other men. I date and occasionally sleep with women here where I live. We are both up front about this, and we don't mess with each other's lives beyond what we have right now. 

We are not exclusive. She knows that and I know that, and we are both okay with it. 

We just had a long talk when I got back from overseas yesterday. I brought these issues up and she is cool with us not having an exclusive relationship right now, and she has no intention whatsoever of moving out here to California. Right now her main focus is finishing up her career, getting her retirement, and then she is thinking about going back to school to be a teacher.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

oscuranotte said:


> I have to say "neither," as well. Helen might only be attractive to you because it's been so long, and she seems new and different. You didn't really praise any real identifiable or specific characteristics or values of either Rachel or Helen -- outside of good/bad sex, cheating and counseling. You didn't say Rachel is great because/Helen is great because. You only praised Helen because she's way more attractive, but you gave her way more positive notes while giving Rachel mostly negative notes. But the positives you gave Helen aren't that deep.
> 
> T*hank you for pointing that out.
> 
> ...


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

I think since you were using pseudonyms for your former ex's you should have used Hester instead of Helen. That being said, you are two adults that are being honest with each other and enjoying company from time to time. There is nothing wrong with that and in fact my be best for both of you. When the current relationship no longer meets both of your needs, then you two will have a decision to make. Just remember the immortal words of that great philosopher Steven Stills:

If you're down and confused
And you don't remember who you're talking to
Concentration slips away
Because your baby is so far away

Well there's a rose in a fisted glove
And the eagle flies with the dove
And if you can't be with the one you love, then
Love the one you're with


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## FLman (Nov 6, 2013)

Lost Viking, you seem like a nice guy, I'm a guy just a few years younger than you are, I have been married for 19 years and have a wonderful wife but it almost all ended just last year, but that is a different topic...I do have some advice based what I learned from my doings to drive a wedge between our relationship, however based on what you wrote, which was clear I would say these two women feel alone now, as you have moved no, they chose to take a different path verses communicating with you, not saying you did not have anything to do with your marriage falling apart, sometimes we miss the obvious signs, however your still young and deserve to be happy and your not at subway picking a sandwich for a meal, you know these women well and it appears that reconnecting with the past might be logical, but since both decided to break the bond (cheat on you) without resolving or leaving first I can tell you that after a little while you might not be able to brush this off and it will create a wedge, if at all, go very slowly and cautiously, it needs to be mutual verses what is comfortable for them...they knew exactly what they were doing of little or no fault to you, or fairness...personally I do not take back stabbing very kindly...hard to get over!


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Just an update.

Helen and I had a great time on our trip. The weather was perfect, we played on the beach, went para-sailing, snorkled, fished for bonita, hiked to a beautiful hidden waterfall, ate great food, got sunburned and, yes, we had lots and lots of hot sex. 

After we both flew home to our respective cities she called me a couple nights later and we had a long talk. We affirmed our affection for each other but also confirmed that neither of us was ready to settle down or commit to anything right now. So we will continue to be long-distance FWBs and see each other when opportunity arises. 

I know alot of you look down on an arrangement like this, and I can understand why, but it works for us.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LostViking said:


> I know alot of you look down on an arrangement like this, and I can understand why, but it works for us.


Viking, what WE think makes no difference. AS long as it works for you, and Helen, that's what matters. And, as long as there is no one getting hurt, who cares what anyone else thinks? It's your life, your choice to live it as you wish. If you're happy, and she's happy, and no one else is in the mix who has a stake in this, then do as you wish. Your life = your choice.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

LostViking said:


> Just an update.
> 
> Helen and I had a great time on our trip. The weather was perfect, we played on the beach, went para-sailing, snorkled, fished for bonita, hiked to a beautiful hidden waterfall, ate great food, got sunburned and, yes, we had lots and lots of hot sex.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with that my man.
Who says you have to decide between the two.
Just kidding...maybe.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Glad to hear it worked out well, Viking. 

Seems like you are on the same page and you were both open and honest about what you want/where you are at.

That is pretty much perfect.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You know, we see a lot of women here damged by their early past. This may be the only one that has actually gotten the therapy she needs. Its sad that after doing the work, her abuse still condemns her and stops her from having a full life with a good man.

I guess its true that the sins of parents have to be carried bt their children and their children's children.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> You know, we see a lot of women here damged by their early past. This may be the only one that has actually gotten the therapy she needs. Its sad that after doing the work, her abuse still condemns her and stops her from having a full life with a good man.
> 
> I guess its true that the sins of parents have to be carried bt their children and their children's children.


Yeah, but she has really pulled herself up by her bootstraps so to speak, over the last 10 years. She has become self-sufficient and really is her own woman. She doesn't require the attention of a string of men to make herself feel wanted and needed. Back two decades ago, when we were so young, she had NO flippin' clue. None whatsoever. Sex was for fun and she didn't give a sh!t who she ran over to have her fun. 

Well she has dealt with that, has matured 1000%, and I can honestly say she has settled all my doubts about her. Still, neither of us is ready to settle down. She has a few more years to go before she gets a nice big fat retirement, and I'm your typical California work-lemming, so for right now we have no plans to ratchet this up.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Well, the nice dream ended last week. Helen called me last week and told me she is getting engaged to a man from Maryland. 

I suspected something had been going on because our correspondences had been diminishing over the last month and a half. She seemed less engaged. I was tired of her avoidance so I confronted her during our weekly Skype session, and she started crying and eventually blurted out that she had fallen in love with a guy she had been going out with and that two weeks ago he had popped the question.

She claims she has fallen hard for him and that she is sure she wants to marry him. She asked if I was mad at her. I was stunned, had nothing to say, so told her bye and I hung up the session. The next day she called me and I asked her why she had not just come out and told me she was getting serious with this guy, and she came back and said she was afraid it would hurt me and she couldn't decide how she wanted to tell me.

So I told her that, in my opinion, she had not learned about the destructiveness about hiding the truth, and as far as I was concerned she had lied by omission. She cried and cried and apologized profusely for hurting me. 

I congratulated her on her engagement and wished her the best, and I told her that from this point forward we should have no contact whatsoever. She didn't like that and said she did not want to lose me as a friend and asked if there was any way we could still have some kind of relationship. I told "no way". There was no way I was going to be a satellite male to her fiancée. 

We sat there in silence for a long time and finally she thanked me for understanding and we said bye for the last time.

I have un-friended her from FB and put her phone numbers on call-block. Her emails over the past year have all been erased.

So, that is that.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

You did the right thing hard as it may be.

She still doesn't know how to be honest. 

I wouldn't be surprised if she contacted you in the future when she needs advice or an ego boost.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Go back and re-read the advice you got... The Hive has spoken!

Sorry, dude. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

We'll sh!t.....

That sucks LV. So you had no idea she was getting serious with another guy? We'll, that's one of the dangers of having a long distance open relationship like the two of you had. But it was very cruel of her to hide the truth like she did. She should have been up front about falling for this guy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

So how are you holding up?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

A leopard does not change its spots....clearly she is still broken and probably will always be, but I promise you two things...first that you have not heard the last of her...second she marriage will not last....poor bastard will find out the hard way.....and given her looks and opportunity probably a year. Be happy you have been spared a second painful event with her....bonne chance


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> So how are you holding up?


Sorry man.


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## MrsDraper (May 27, 2013)

LostViking said:


> Well, the nice dream ended last week. Helen called me last week and told me she is getting engaged to a man from Maryland.
> 
> I suspected something had been going on because our correspondences had been diminishing over the last month and a half. She seemed less engaged. I was tired of her avoidance so I confronted her during our weekly Skype session, and she started crying and eventually blurted out that she had fallen in love with a guy she had been going out with and that two weeks ago he had popped the question.
> 
> ...


I thought from your point of view it was "friends with benefits"? Did I read that wrong? It is in your 2/14/2014 post.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Xenote said:


> A leopard does not change its spots....clearly she is still broken and probably will always be, but I promise you two things...first that you have not heard the last of her...second she marriage will not last....poor bastard will find out the hard way.....and given her looks and opportunity probably a year. Be happy you have been spared a second painful event with her....bonne chance


I hope this isn't the case. I hope she doesn't cheat on him.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

MrsDraper said:


> I thought from your point of view it was "friends with benefits"? Did I read that wrong? It is in your 2/14/2014 post.


You're absolutely right. I'm as responsible for this as she, because I condoned it. I've been sleeping with the occasional lady also, but I have held back on letting myself fall for anyone. 

The plan was that Helen would stay back east until she got her retirement. She was then going to move out here to California because I'm here and she liked the West coast better. There was some discussion of moving in together and cohabitation during our retirement. In the meantime we could date and sleep with others. We had a "don't ask, don't tell" agreement regarding this. 

So I was as responsible for this as she. I'm not angry at her for falling for another man, I'm just angry at her for not letting me know weeks ago when was beginning to fall for him. We had been corresponding all this time as if nothing had changed....but it had, I just didn't know it. 

I feel numb. Not sad or angry, just numb.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Despite everything, it sounds like she made you happier for a time and maybe that will help HER focus more on her relationship. 

Sort of like a symbolic do-over.

It SEEMS like some of the hurt you had around her has dimminished and she DID appear at a time that you could use a friend.

Maybe this is the Universes way of telling you to let it go and focus on today?

Either way I enjoyed reading this one.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I sort of agree with Samurai Jack. She came along at a time when you probably needed a close friend. You two buried the hatchet, had some good times together, satisfying sex....

But you were never really committed to each other, nor were the two of you exclusive, so as much as it may hurt, we can't really call what she did cheating. She was dating guys, trying to keep it superficial, but someone came along who really rocked her universe in all ways and she fell in love. It happens man. And when you are not around her, meeting her needs, someone else will come along who will. 

I'm glad you insisted on no more contact. That is a good thing. You don't want to end up as an OM.


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> I sort of agree with Samurai Jack. She came along at a time when you probably needed a close friend. You two buried the hatchet, had some good times together, satisfying sex....
> 
> But you were never really committed to each other, nor were the two of you exclusive, so as much as it may hurt, we can't really call what she did cheating. She was dating guys, trying to keep it superficial, but someone came along who really rocked her universe in all ways and she fell in love. It happens man. And when you are not around her, meeting her needs, someone else will come along who will.
> 
> I'm glad you insisted on no more contact. That is a good thing. You don't want to end up as an OM.


I think you hit the nail on the head.

Surprisingly, I'm not all that depressed. I am a little angry that she led me on while all this was going on without my knowledge. But I'm quickly getting over it. Although I did get a little miffed last week when she mailed me a Happy Birthday card. She wrote "Happy Birthday to the kindest and most wonderful man I've ever known." Puke. I thought her fiancée was supposed to be the most wonderful man in the world. She's learned a lot over the years but she's still got a lot of fixing on herself to do. 

I wanted to do a "return to sender", but thought better of it and just threw it away.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

LostViking said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Surprisingly, I'm not all that depressed. I am a little angry that she led me on while all this was going on without my knowledge. But I'm quickly getting over it. Although I did get a little miffed last week when she mailed me a Happy Birthday card. She wrote "Happy Birthday to the kindest and most wonderful man I've ever known." Puke. I* thought her fiancée was supposed to be the most wonderful man in the world. She's learned a lot over the years but she's still got a lot of fixing on herself to do. *
> 
> I wanted to do a "return to sender", but thought better of it and just threw it away.


Like another poster already said, she will most likely cheat on him also.

BTW, did you ever consider letting the fiancee know what was up ? Wonder how he would feel if he read that birthday card ? 

Not implying that you are obligated in any way to do this, just wondering.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Viking.....she is engaged to be married and sends her ex a person card.....I'm telling you....she will be back....she is just dropping the bread crumbs now


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