# On the bullet train to D town :-(



## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

Well, here I am. After a year of therapy, months of painful conversation and dealing with emotional detachment, my wife finally threw in the towel last night. I can't say I was surprised, but it hit me a lot harder than I thought it would. We had 9 great years of marriage and had a really bright future ahead of us. Now its all dead. There is still a lot of good with us, but she just can't emotionally reconnect.....and, so, its over.

We have 2 beautiful kids that adore both of us. A 5 year old boy and a 3 year old little girl. I break down every time I think about them, and how this will change their lives forever. Our marriage failed due my inability to manage my stress from work and travel and her subsequent emotional detachment. I don't think there is a way to recover as she just can't seem to put the effort forth to try no matter how much progress I make on my issues.

She isn't rushing me to make any formal moves just yet, but its clear that this is only headed one way and its probably not too soon to start preparing for whatever comes next. The problem is that I've never really allowed myself to think about what comes next. I have been so focused on making it work, that I now feel totally unprepared both mentally and emotionally for the future. 

I want to have a good relationship with my wife, we are still good friends after all. And I will do everything in my power to make this as painless as possible on the kids. The last thing on earth I want to do is move out of my home but it just doesn't make sense to ask her to leave. What should I do? Should I focus on protecting myself with an attorney, or go to mediation like she suggests? How do I break this to my children? What about me, what should I be doing to ensure my emotional well being? Is there life after divorce? Seems like everything in my life that I hold dear rotted and died.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm so sorry. I can only imagine your pain. And that of your kids. 

It might seem too late for this, but you could read it anyway. It might help you understand her better moving forward, as you co-parent.

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

Alpinglow said:


> Well, here I am. After a year of therapy, months of painful conversation and dealing with emotional detachment, my wife finally threw in the towel last night. I can't say I was surprised, but it hit me a lot harder than I thought it would. We had 9 great years of marriage and had a really bright future ahead of us. Now its all dead. There is still a lot of good with us, but she just can't emotionally reconnect.....and, so, its over.
> 
> We have 2 beautiful kids that adore both of us. A 5 year old boy and a 3 year old little girl. I break down every time I think about them, and how this will change their lives forever. Our marriage failed due my inability to manage my stress from work and travel and her subsequent emotional detachment. I don't think there is a way to recover as she just can't seem to put the effort forth to try no matter how much progress I make on my issues.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you are going through this...I have just today printed out divorce papers myself....

BUT.....If you held all these thing so dear to you, you wouldn't be making this post....Sorry if that's harsh, but....


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## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

That's kinda the worst part isn't it? No one to blame but yourself.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Alpinglow said:


> Well, here I am. After a year of therapy, months of painful conversation and dealing with emotional detachment, my wife finally threw in the towel last night. I can't say I was surprised, but it hit me a lot harder than I thought it would. We had 9 great years of marriage and had a really bright future ahead of us. Now its all dead. There is still a lot of good with us, but *she just can't emotionally reconnect.....and, so, its over.*
> 
> _i wonder if this is really a healthy excuse for leaving a marriage, unless there is a lot more to it. emotional connection can be lost, but regained_
> 
> ...


_ your're probably being way too hard on yourself. you are human, you just probably fell into the trap a lot of us do. which is screwed-up priorities.
_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Alpinglow said:


> That's kinda the worst part isn't it? No one to blame but yourself.


Please don't be so hard on yourself. 

But do learn what you can from it.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Alpinglow said:


> That's kinda the worst part isn't it? No one to blame but yourself.


There is no such thing as a failed relationship that is 100% one persons fault. No one is perfect.

She bares partial blame for the failure also. It's good you acknowledge your share though.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Talk to an atty. They give free 10-30 minute consults as a way to get clients. Find out what the landscape is where you live. You NEED to know this information.

Mediation is the way to go if at all possible. But that doesn't mean you cannot have a lawyer on your side. You can have the lawyer advise you behind the scenes and review documents for you. You can also do it without an atty, but with small children I strongly advise you hire an atty at least as an advisor and reviewer.

Little things can really trip you up, and the kids create innumerable land mines.

The house is something most people screw up. Either one of you can or cannot afford to live there. I've heard financial gurus say that the #1 financial mistake women make in divorce is trying to keep the house. Since you have kids, your stbxw's finances are of concern to you. If you had no kids, I'd say let your stbxw reap whatever consequences good or bad from her decisions. Anyhow, the question is whether this cost of housing is something within a smart budget for one of you. You'll need to understand spousal support and child support to calculate a housing budget. Once you both know your budgets you can decide if one or the other of you can even afford the current house.

If so, it usually makes sense for one of the parents to stay in the house so the kids can be in familiar surroundings. But if you can't afford it, the kids will adapt just fine to a new home. Better to do it that way than have your wife end up declaring bankruptcy and having to move to a much worse place than had she just downsized a bit from the beginning.

Yes, you need an atty. You don't have to have them arguing for you. You can even hire just one atty. Mine charges $1500 for an uncontested divorce where they do all the paperwork including transfer of the home and all kinds of detailed stuff which needs to be done. The atty will only represent one of you and cannot represent both of you. But you can both go in together and if there is trust then you can do it all with one atty.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Alpinglow said:


> Should I focus on protecting myself with an attorney, or go to mediation like she suggests? .


Mediation is for people who agree on most everything. Has custody arrangement been discussed? Are you seeling the house and splitting the proceeds. 

I think it's time to lawyer up.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

Alpinglow said:


> I want to have a good relationship with my wife, we are still good friends after all.


That won't last once the divorce starts unless you give her everything she asks, and expect her to ask for so much that you won't have enough left to support yourself. That's usually how it works. 



Alpinglow said:


> And I will do everything in my power to make this as painless as possible on the kids.


Then you need to accept that she's done, and give her what she wants, find a place to live, and get out. 



Alpinglow said:


> The last thing on earth I want to do is move out of my home


You can't have it both ways. She wants you gone, you want what's best for the kids and you want to remain friends. Your wants and needs unfortunately do not factor into that equation.



Alpinglow said:


> but it just doesn't make sense to ask her to leave.


Not if she's the primary caregiver to the kids and I'm thinking if you want to remain friends with her, asking her to leave won't get you any closer to that particular goal.



Alpinglow said:


> Should I focus on protecting myself with an attorney, or go to mediation like she suggests? How do I break this to my children? What about me, what should I be doing to ensure my emotional well being? Is there life after divorce? Seems like everything in my life that I hold dear rotted and died.


Always better to divorce via mediation if possible. You discuss with your soon to be exwife how to break it to the kids and if you really want to get it right then read some of the countless articles pertaining to children and divorce. Stay fit, stay busy, hang with friends who you can lean on but don't be too much of a whiner that gets old fast. Yes there's life after divorce once you get past the first few years of misery, provided that you get yourself a fair settlement and don't give everything away because eventually you'll want to meet someone new and women don't like to meet guys who have given their life savings away and are paying most of their income to their exwives in support.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

Thor said:


> the kids will adapt just fine to a new home.


 @Thor

I liked your post for everything you wrote except the part quoted above.

The kids won't necessarily "adapt just fine to a new home". Divorce is traumatic and can be devastating to children at any age and if they have to leave the security of the family home in the midst of all the devastation odds are they will not get through it without permanent residual damage. There's dozens of books on the subject.



CatJayBird said:


> If you held all these thing so dear to you, you wouldn't be making this post....Sorry if that's harsh, but....





Alpinglow said:


> That's kinda the worst part isn't it? No one to blame but yourself.


Not helpful. It's like stopping at the side of the road next to a guy who is trapped in his burning car and saying "if you drove more carefully your legs wouldn't be on fire".


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Alpinglow said:


> I want to have a good relationship with my wife, we are still good friends after all. And I will do everything in my power to make this as painless as possible on the kids. The last thing on earth I want to do is move out of my home but it just doesn't make sense to ask her to leave. What should I do? Should I focus on protecting myself with an attorney, or go to mediation like she suggests? How do I break this to my children? What about me, what should I be doing to ensure my emotional well being? Is there life after divorce? Seems like everything in my life that I hold dear rotted and died.


If it's over you will need to detach in order to move on. If not you'll just linger in limbo.

You should always be civil but you have to think about your life and future as well. 

When you separate I'd limit contact to about kids only. Email and text. Trying to remain close friends in this circumstance is not in your best interest.

She had an affair before so expect her to immediately strike that back up. The more detached you can get the easier it will make your new life.

Read up on the 180 and apply it. Hanging around in this circumstance will get you nothing.

Good luck


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

silex said:


> I liked your post for everything you wrote except the part quoted above.
> 
> The kids won't necessarily "adapt just fine to a new home". Divorce is traumatic and can be devastating to children at any age and if they have to leave the security of the family home in the midst of all the devastation odds are they will not get through it without permanent residual damage. There's dozens of books on the subject.


It's far more damaging to a child's psyche for them to grow up with two parents who are resentful, argumentative, and angry all the time. 

A new happy home is far better than an old miserable one. You're not doing the child any favors staying in a sh!tty relationship for them.

It's not a perfect solution to uproot them but it's most definitely the lessor of two evils.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> It's not a perfect solution to uproot them but it's most definitely the lessor of two evils.


Agreed. I was simply responding to the comment that stated the kids will be just fine moving to a new house.

It's really, really bad to uproot the kids but sometimes there's no other choice.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

silex said:


> Agreed. I was simply responding to the comment that stated the kids will be just fine moving to a new house.


They will "learn to adapt" is certainly a better way to put it. Some kids do take it harder than others. It depends on the child.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm not saying that she is bluffing about the divorce and "throwing in the towel", but I'll use the words anyway... Call her bluff.

The fact she isn't making any moves yet indicates she's probably waiting for some movement from you... either you breaking down and seeing things her way or you making the moves for divorce. I'd suggest the latter. Get the divorce papers ready, set dates, let her know you're talking to an attorney. If she really wants to move forward, fine. You're that much further down the road.

If she really doesn't, this will spur her towards reconciliation. But either way you get movement.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> They will "learn to adapt" is certainly a better way to put it. Some kids do take it harder than others. It depends on the child.


Not all kids "learn to adapt". Lost of kids suffer permanent disabilities, personality disorders, PTSD.

Sure some do better than others, but if your child is one of "the others" then it doesn't do any good to know they could have done better.


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## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks Marc, you have been a great help through all of this. As hard as it is to hear, I think you are right. I have no doubt that she won't waste time getting back to her old flame (assuming she ever left) or whoever else might come along. Watching that will be tough. I will say however that the last year has hardened me emotionally too. My emotions at the moment are much more around my kids and the forthcoming deconstruction of our lives than anything else.


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## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm not saying that she is bluffing about the divorce and "throwing in the towel", but I'll use the words anyway... Call her bluff.
> 
> The fact she isn't making any moves yet indicates she's probably waiting for some movement from you... either you breaking down and seeing things her way or you making the moves for divorce. I'd suggest the latter. Get the divorce papers ready, set dates, let her know you're talking to an attorney. If she really wants to move forward, fine. You're that much further down the road.
> 
> If she really doesn't, this will spur her towards reconciliation. But either way you get movement.


Wishful thinking and I could use some of that right now, but I'm sure she is done. She's had a year to make this decision and I think she's made it.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

silex said:


> Not all kids "learn to adapt". Lost of kids suffer permanent disabilities, personality disorders, PTSD.
> 
> Sure some do better than others, but if your child is one of "the others" then it doesn't do any good to know they could have done better.


Well your wrong imo. Children are far more resilient and adaptable than most adults to be perfectly blunt. 

They're not suffering permanent disabilities, personality disorders, PTSD unless their parents are abusive.

It doesn't matter where they live as long as its in a loving home provided be both parties.

Obviously their are exceptions but the majority turn out no worse off than if the fighting parents stayed together.


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## silex (Sep 13, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Well your wrong imo. Children are far more resilient and adaptable than most adults to be perfectly blunt.
> 
> They're not suffering permanent disabilities, personality disorders, PTSD unless their parents are abusive.
> 
> ...


Please.

Having been through a divorce with young children, and having read countless books on the subject, I know what I'm talking about. I don't expect you to take my word for it.

Here's a link for you.

https://www.amazon.com/Unexpected-L...=1473964447&sr=8-1&keywords=legacy+of+divorce


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

silex said:


> Please.
> 
> Having been through a divorce with young children, and having read countless books on the subject, I know what I'm talking about. I don't expect you to take my word for it.


Yeah and so have I....

And after three years of sharing in two different households, I can assure you my kids are not suffering from mental issues.

They are probably two of the happiest and most content kids you'd ever want to meet.


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## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Yeah and so have I....
> 
> And after three years of sharing in two different households, I can assure you my kids are not suffering from mental issues.
> 
> They are probably two of the happiest and most content kids you'd ever want to meet.


Any tips on how you accomplished that? I want this more than anything.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

silex said:


> Agreed. I was simply responding to the comment that stated the kids will be just fine moving to a new house.
> 
> It's really, really bad to uproot the kids but sometimes there's no other choice.


Kids adapt well as long as the parents are creating a positive and healthy environment. Kids grow up happy and healthy coming from meager neighborhoods, while other kids grow up monsters from very wealthy neighborhoods. And vice versa. Some kids move frequently yet grow up fine. Others grow up in one house yet turn out messed up. It is up to the parents to ensure things remain civilized when they are together around the kids, and that the kids know they are loved and supported.

Of course there are challenges, but as long as the new house is safe and the environment good, the kids will adjust just fine to living in a different house in a different neighborhood.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Chris Taylor said:


> I'm not saying that she is bluffing about the divorce and "throwing in the towel", but I'll use the words anyway... Call her bluff.
> 
> The fact she isn't making any moves yet indicates she's probably waiting for some movement from you... either you breaking down and seeing things her way or you making the moves for divorce. I'd suggest the latter. Get the divorce papers ready, set dates, let her know you're talking to an attorney. If she really wants to move forward, fine. You're that much further down the road.
> 
> If she really doesn't, this will spur her towards reconciliation. But either way you get movement.


Exactly!!! The best move you can make. Don't worry about pushing her away she left a year ago. Do your part as far as coparenting but nothing more. Be civil but keep your distance she needs to own her own life and you yours.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> Well your wrong imo. Children are far more resilient and adaptable than most adults to be perfectly blunt.
> 
> They're not suffering permanent disabilities, personality disorders, PTSD unless their parents are abusive.
> 
> ...


If they have a stable home at dads and a stable home at moms, love from both, security and discipline and laughter MINUS the fighting (the constant ugliness!!) then I think they will do just fine, thanks very much, with two homes. They are loved immensely in both, just in different ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

OP - I suspect her heart packed its bags and left a while ago. There's no sense in trying to speak to something (her heart) that isn't there anymore. Sorry to say, but this is usually what happens when a man neglects his marriage for too long. Or treats it poorly. She is there, but all the important parts of her are not to be found ever again. Not in your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

ButtPunch said:


> Mediation is for people who agree on most everything. Has custody arrangement been discussed? Are you seeling the house and splitting the proceeds.
> 
> I think it's time to lawyer up.


Speaking from experience, I wouldn't do mediation when young children are involved.
A civilized divorce via a lawyer need not be $$$.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Alpinglow said:


> Any tips on how you accomplished that? I want this more than anything.


Here's a few tips:

1) Divorce your wife and dump any other toxic people in your life. If they are negative or engage in bad behavior get rid of them. Misery LOVES company. Focus on your kids, they are the only ones that matter.

2) Work on yourself. Go to the gym, diet, get some hobbies, play sports, work on your social skills. Say hi to strangers, compliment people, smile all the time and be positive even if your not in the mood.

3) Find your inner happiness. Figure out what makes YOU content in life. Don't start dating too soon or your become codependent. Be okay with being alone. Again happiness comes from within not from another person.


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## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

Begin again said:


> OP - I suspect her heart packed its bags and left a while ago. There's no sense in trying to speak to something (her heart) that isn't there anymore. Sorry to say, but this is usually what happens when a man neglects his marriage for too long. Or treats it poorly. She is there, but all the important parts of her are not to be found ever again. Not in your marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Last night I came home and she had cooked dinner and gave me a long hug. We put the kids to bed and talked out on the deck by the fire. She was still talking about divorce, and my not so subtle attempts to allow her to see that there is still a lot of good in our relationship were thwarted with comments about her unhappiness. Likwesie, on Wednesday night, after she told the therapist that we were 'done' I took off and went for a long drive. She found me on Find My Friends and came down to meet me....to comfort me I guess. At the very least there is some conflict in her still, no matter how small. I just can't figure out how to turn that conflict into questioning what she is doing. 

Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, guys in my situation usually do. But, I just can't accept that a heart can close and never reopen to someone. Especially if that someone is a good friend, great parent and has made monumental strides in their own development to make the relationship work. I'm so sick and tired of every therapist, forum poster, friend and colleague typecasting and trying to make our situation something it doesn't have to be. She has bought into all that, and uses it constantly as a reason not to open her heart. I have forgiven, and have opened mine, why can't she? 

I know you all are going to say that I just need to accept it. But I woke up this morning in an emotional fight with this thing that I just can't reconcile. Can't shake the feeling that I need a hail mary here, but I wouldn't even know where to start.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If you want to see the conflict lean more towards wanting you to stay, psychology says you should give her space. 

What you are doing now is sort of like pushing a rope. It doesn't work. 

Case in point, when you left the other night look at what she did.

Give her space. Lots of it. Implement the 180. If she chases, then you can have a talk about what you will or will not accept in a relationship. Right now you are allowing her to dictate that, when you are the one that should be doing so. If she does not chase you, then the180 will be moving you towards detachment and eventual divorce.


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> If you want to see the conflict lean more towards wanting you to stay, psychology says you should give her space.
> 
> What you are doing now is sort of like pushing a rope. It doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Great advice here.

If you do reconcile, it has to be her idea. 

It won't be because of your "hail mary"


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you do the "pick me dance" it usually pushes them further away. The more you try and talk, reason the further she's moved away. It hasn't worked has it?

Better change tactics. Go away for the weekend. If you allow your heart to guide you at this time (like most do) she'll be repulsed by it. Easier said than done but you are close to running out of options.

You are telling her she is worth more than you. She isn't.


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Alpinglow said:


> Last night I came home and she had cooked dinner and gave me a long hug. We put the kids to bed and talked out on the deck by the fire. She was still talking about divorce, and my not so subtle attempts to allow her to see that there is still a lot of good in our relationship were thwarted with comments about her unhappiness. Likwesie, on Wednesday night, after she told the therapist that we were 'done' I took off and went for a long drive. She found me on Find My Friends and came down to meet me....to comfort me I guess. At the very least there is some conflict in her still, no matter how small. I just can't figure out how to turn that conflict into questioning what she is doing.
> 
> Maybe I'm making something out of nothing, guys in my situation usually do. But, I just can't accept that a heart can close and never reopen to someone. Especially if that someone is a good friend, great parent and has made monumental strides in their own development to make the relationship work. I'm so sick and tired of every therapist, forum poster, friend and colleague typecasting and trying to make our situation something it doesn't have to be. She has bought into all that, and uses it constantly as a reason not to open her heart. I have forgiven, and have opened mine, why can't she?
> 
> I know you all are going to say that I just need to accept it. But I woke up this morning in an emotional fight with this thing that I just can't reconcile. Can't shake the feeling that I need a hail mary here, but I wouldn't even know where to start.


Speaking from my experience, there was nothing he could do that would win me back once my heart left. This was because I knew what was waiting for me in the marriage and it was more of the same. I did not believe he would ever change, but he also never tried when we were together. He went through the motions, and only briefly. It was not real.

Because I knew what was and what is, I turned my eyes on what could be. I didn't see that I could ever be happy with him, and this fueled my desire to leave. I was dying in my marriage. I couldn't keep going, but I also needed hope and I found it in the possibilities that a future on my own could give me.

I can't say how, but I will say that the only way to get her to stay is to show her how good her future could be with you. Start by asking yourself if she would date you if she were single now. How's your "game?" You need to be the prize she wants, not the man who hurt her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Alpinglow said:


> Last night I came home and she had cooked dinner and gave me a long hug. We put the kids to bed and talked out on the deck by the fire. She was still talking about divorce, and my not so subtle attempts to allow her to see that there is still a lot of good in our relationship were thwarted with comments about her unhappiness.


Damn man.... You to cut this sh!t out OP. Now. Don't talk to her AT ALL. Plow forward with the divorce, implement the "180" (google it) and show NO emotion (think Mr. Spock.) Nothing you say will matter and it is making things WORSE by making you look weak and pathetic. You CAN NOT nice her back. The best thing you can do for yourself and yourself respect is ACT LIKE A MAN. 

Accept that it's OVER. For women, it's a light switch. Once it's off that's it. She still "acts nice" out of guilt. She PITIES you. Nothing more. Soon she will ask you to be friends if she hasn't already. If on the SLIM chance she does come back, it will be because you did not repluse her away with your KISA behavior.



Alpinglow said:


> But, I just can't accept that a heart can close and never reopen to someone.


Accept it.



Alpinglow said:


> I know you all are going to say that I just need to accept it.


Accept it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

On a side note. Don't take all the blame for this. 

Your wife stepped outside the marriage and had an affair with an attorney behind your back which doesn't say much for her. 

180, 180, 180!!!!!!!


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## Alpinglow (Nov 12, 2015)

Begin again said:


> Speaking from my experience, there was nothing he could do that would win me back once my heart left. This was because I knew what was waiting for me in the marriage and it was more of the same. I did not believe he would ever change, but he also never tried when we were together. He went through the motions, and only briefly. It was not real.
> 
> Because I knew what was and what is, I turned my eyes on what could be. I didn't see that I could ever be happy with him, and this fueled my desire to leave. I was dying in my marriage. I couldn't keep going, but I also needed hope and I found it in the possibilities that a future on my own could give me.
> 
> ...


My game is amazing, but she hasn't seen that side of me for awhile. I'm bringing that back as part of the 180 everyone is recommending. I'm interested in your story though. This emotional detachment will haunt me till I die. Would you mind elaborating on what your husband did that you found so distasteful? How did you know he wasn't capable of change? Were you right? Was life better without him?


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## Begin again (Jul 4, 2016)

Alpinglow said:


> My game is amazing, but she hasn't seen that side of me for awhile. I'm bringing that back as part of the 180 everyone is recommending. I'm interested in your story though. This emotional detachment will haunt me till I die. Would you mind elaborating on what your husband did that you found so distasteful? How did you know he wasn't capable of change? Were you right? Was life better without him?


He is what is called a "Nice Guy." You'll find lots of threads here on what that means. Part of being a nice guy meant avoiding conflicts, so he never wanted to address any issues directly. He also is passive aggressive, can't take criticism, and has low self worth which came out as being an emotional island to protect himself from ever being hurt.

That paints him to be an awful person, but in many ways he's a great guy. Very conscientious and tries to never rock the boat with anyone. He's also very involved in our kids lives, which is great. 

The reason I left was because he was unwilling to work on himself. He didn't believe in counseling and there was nothing I could say to him that he didn't take as criticism. I don't think we ever resolved an issue between us; we found ways to work around issues but not without a lot of bitter feelings. 

When I moved out, he knew for about 3 years that I was planning on leaving. He knew that I wanted changes from him but he never did anything. After about 9 months separated, I let go of my anger and resentment and saw him as the good man he can be and I was sad that I was losing the man I'd spent most of my adult life with and shared children with. We attempted to reconcile, but what I thought would happen did. I had said to him for years that I need him to make changes, and he would come back at me saying "there's some things you need to change too!" There were, but the way I was was in response to how he behaved. I knew that I could be exactly the woman he wanted just by letting go of my resentment and being myself again. But his self esteem issues were not because of me; they were there well before we ever met. So, when we tried to reconcile, he immediately fell for me. But because he had not worked on his self esteem, I didn't feel the same about him. It's hard for a woman to love a man who has no confidence. And he said he wanted to change, but he was doing it for me and to put our family back together. I told him he needed to change for himself, that that was the only real way to make permanent change. He fought me on that over and over and I eventually just saw that he was only going to work on himself long enough to get me back. And because I didn't want to hurt him, I stopped the reconciliation very quickly. 

You asked if I'm happier now. The answer is a resounding yes. Significantly. It's a general happiness that comes over me, and I'm glad I left.

Now, can you get her back? Well, I can tell you that I had to extract myself from my marriage and live apart from him for many months before my anger and resentment lifted. When it finally did, I could see him as the man he is. Unfortunately, that didn't mean reconciling, but at least I could let go of the filter I had.

I mention this because your wife has a filter she's seeing you through right now. She's hurt and she will only see you as the man who hurt her, who let her down, etc. How you get that filter to lift while you two are still under the same roof? That I don't know.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

She's blowing hot and cold. She's sitting on the fence and you are letting her call all the shots.

The only real chance you have at this point if you really want to save your marriage is to kick her off the fence, and tell her to only come back when she is REALLY ready to commit. That's the only thing she will respect at this point.

https://www.amazon.ca/Love-Must-Be-Tough-Marriages/dp/141431745X


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Alpinglow said:


> My game is amazing, but she hasn't seen that side of me for awhile. I'm bringing that back as part of the 180 everyone is recommending. I'm interested in your story though. This emotional detachment will haunt me till I die. Would you mind elaborating on what your husband did that you found so distasteful? How did you know he wasn't capable of change? Were you right? Was life better without him?


You can up your game, you can 180. You can work out, eat better, solidify some personal activities/hobbies. That's all good stuff. But it doesn't _change_ her. She is still the same person. Maybe she'll rediscover the passion she used to feel for you. But maybe not. Don't be doing these things to manipulate her into liking you again. If you do that, it will only be temporary on your part and then you'll backslide into being "boring" to her again.

Do those things because they resonate with you as being the kind of person you want to be. Do it as a gift to your wife without expectation of reciprocation. Just as you'd take out the trash or pick up a broken branch in the yard, which you'd do without expectation that she will somehow like you or do nice things for you.


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