# What should I have learned from my experience?



## tryingpatience

It's been a month since I exposed my stbxw's affair. An affair that had gone on with a co-worker for 2.5 years. WW and OP were planning on living a life together the whole time. They were looking for a place together and consulting a lawyer while I was in the dark.

I only became aware of the problem a year ago when she stopped saying "I love you" and sex stopped. We tried MC but she lied through the whole thing and nothing came out of it. After posting my problem here I installed keyloggers on her laptop and found out the truth. The truth set me free .

The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough. Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?

I thought I picked a good person. She spoke about how important family was. She had a good profession as a teacher. She was never one to lie, until our marriage. We improved as a couple, we communicated more and were best friends. Is the lesson learned her that people change and we just have to accept that? Do women change after having babies? The whole time I thought that was what was happening. She was going through some midlife change.

After some reflection I admit that I did put her on a pedestal at times but I also did complain when I wasn't happy. I fought for my marriage always. I am a beta / alpha mix. I've always been an active person and do alpha things i.e. martial arts, hanging out with the boys etc. I don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry. I also play with my kids and love putting them to bed.

So what are your thoughts on this? I'm continuing my journey on this new path and would appreciate your comments.


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## treyvion

tryingpatience said:


> It's been a month since I exposed my stbxw's affair. An affair that had gone on with a co-worker for 2.5 years. WW and OP were planning on living a life together the whole time. They were looking for a place together and consulting a lawyer while I was in the dark.
> 
> I only became aware of the problem a year ago when she stopped saying "I love you" and sex stopped. We tried MC but she lied through the whole thing and nothing came out of it. After posting my problem here I installed keyloggers on her laptop and found out the truth. The truth set me free .
> 
> The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough. Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?
> 
> I thought I picked a good person. She spoke about how important family was. She had a good profession as a teacher. She was never one to lie, until our marriage. We improved as a couple, we communicated more and were best friends. Is the lesson learned her that people change and we just have to accept that? Do women change after having babies? The whole time I thought that was what was happening. She was going through some midlife change.
> 
> After some reflection I admit that I did put her on a pedestal at times but I also did complain when I wasn't happy. I fought for my marriage always. I am a beta / alpha mix. I've always been an active person and do alpha things i.e. martial arts, hanging out with the boys etc. I don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry. I also play with my kids and love putting them to bed.
> 
> So what are your thoughts on this? I'm continuing my journey on this new path and would appreciate your comments.


Sometimes it doesn't matter what you did/didn't do, they cheated because they were curious.

What does matter is how you respond, and after 2.5 years you are once again open to the possibilities life may offer you.

Congratulations.

I've been through the ride too, and currently I'd prefer that someone has already been through this phase of life and doesn't want to do it anymore.


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## Squeakr

You have learned what you boundaries are what you are willing to accept and to accept and now you are taking your life back.

Incidentally alpha is a state of your demeanor (such as a take charge manner and power/ controlling mental state) and not just a representation of the culmination of your actions. Performing martial arts and hanging out with the boys are not necessarily alpha actions (as not everyone in that group is a take charge alphas) and don't make one an alpha just by doing them, just like doing the laundry doesn't make one a beta. It is how you conduct yourself. You can be a beta and still enjoy and participate in the the activities that you have listed and alphas need clean clothes and do their own laundry as well.


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## badmemory

I think that you should have learned - 

No matter how well you think know your partner, there is no guarantee that they will be faithful, including your next one.

To be more cautious in your next relationship and to look for the signs.

To appreciate an honest and faithful partner.

That their cheating is not your fault.

That some BS's can overcome infidelity and R, some can't. Either choice can be a successful outcome.

That you made the best decision to D.

That if you ever think to cheat yourself, you won't; knowing the pain of betrayal you'd be causing.


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## Wolf1974

Looks like you learned the same lessons I have learned:

Love but never more than you get back

Trust but never blindly

No matter how well you think you picked you never really know another person

Protect yourself at all times. Cause the ones you don't see coming are the ones that put you on your ass going WTF.

You will survive this and move on but you will be wiser. I promise you.


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## bandit.45

Another teacher....


Tsk tsk.


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## vellocet

tryingpatience said:


> The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough. Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?


You have to do whats best for you. I can't tell you to not be as trusting and always guard yourself. I can tell you that's what I did and wouldn't do it any other way.

I do believe that everyone would advise to never trust 100% ever again, at least until you can trust at that level.

You have some people that will take the chance, not put up any walls and get back on that horse. I, however, am not one of them.

So its up to you. If you want a committed, loving relationship still, then you have to get back on that horse. If you think you are done giving your heart to anyone, then stay on the ground.


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## bandit.45

And remember that her new relationship statistically only stands a 3% chance of lasting more than five years. A relationship built on betrayal, lies and deceit is a house of cards. 

Don't be surprised if this wonderful new love of hers blows up in her face in a couple years. And don't be doubly surprised if she doesn't call you up asking if you think the two of you could be a couple again. It may not happen, but it has happened.


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## ReidWright

bandit.45 said:


> Another teacher....
> 
> 
> Tsk tsk.


I always wondered what happened in the Teacher's Lounge...


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## tryingpatience

Bandit, I've read this and have been told this also. It's a shame but it can't be undone now. I suspect she is already having doubts based on what friends are telling me.

Wolf, I wonder if love with another will ever feel as free knowing what I know now. My trust will be hard earned from now on I think.


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## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> Bandit, I've read this and have been told this also. It's a shame but it can't be undone now. I suspect she is already having doubts based on what friends are telling me.
> 
> Wolf, I wonder if love with another will ever feel as free knowing what I know now. My trust will be hard earned from now on I think.


Don't expect her to come back, but be prepared if she does. You need to have a game plan. Some waywards come back and some don't. Depends on how prideful and selfish they are. 

Even if she does come back, and she asks for reconciliation, SHE is the one who needs to do most of the heavy lifting. She would have to be completely contrite and remorseful, completely transparent and completely committed to helping you heal from her betrayal. Most waywards are not willing to do the hard work. They just want the betrayed spouse to rug sweep and get over it.


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## Chaparral

What I've learned here is don't date teachers or nurses. Just don't understand why that is.

Oh yeah, don't let your wife go to the gym, yoga, club, dancing, theater group and GNO's without you.


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## BjornFree

Lessons to learn:

1.You are a faithful spouse. 
2.You're a good father.
3.You are good enough, not just for the sad excuse of a woman like your wife, but the best of the best.
4. The bandage that heals your heart is attached to your d!ck. Go out there and get laid.


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## tryingpatience

Chaparral said:


> What I've learned here is don't date teachers or nurses. Just don't understand why that is.
> 
> Oh yeah, don't let your wife go to the gym, yoga, club, dancing, theater group and GNO's without you.


I've read a bit about this and some people here have theories on why. Not sure how serious you are about doing all those things with the wife but you bring up a good point.

I gave her the freedom to have her own life and I didn't worry. I participated for the most part. Does this type of trust exist for any of you? Or must a husband be on guard always for a wayward spouse? I'd like to be with someone without having to worry about what the hell they are doing when they are without me.


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## bandit.45

I believe teachers, medical professionals and law enforcement personnel have the highest rates of infidelity of all the professions. It may have something to do with the stressful environments within these professions. Co-workers lean on each other for emotional support more in these professions and this leads to EAs/PAs.


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## x598

tryingpatience said:


> It's been a month since I exposed my stbxw's affair. An affair that had gone on with a co-worker for 2.5 years. WW and OP were planning on living a life together the whole time. They were looking for a place together and consulting a lawyer while I was in the dark.
> 
> I only became aware of the problem a year ago when she stopped saying "I love you" and sex stopped. We tried MC but she lied through the whole thing and nothing came out of it. After posting my problem here I installed keyloggers on her laptop and found out the truth. The truth set me free .
> 
> The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough. Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?
> 
> I thought I picked a good person. She spoke about how important family was. She had a good profession as a teacher. She was never one to lie, until our marriage. We improved as a couple, we communicated more and were best friends. Is the lesson learned her that people change and we just have to accept that? Do women change after having babies? The whole time I thought that was what was happening. She was going through some midlife change.
> 
> After some reflection I admit that I did put her on a pedestal at times but I also did complain when I wasn't happy. I fought for my marriage always. I am a beta / alpha mix. I've always been an active person and do alpha things i.e. martial arts, hanging out with the boys etc. I don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry. I also play with my kids and love putting them to bed.
> 
> So what are your thoughts on this? I'm continuing my journey on this new path and would appreciate your comments.


ill tell you an important lesson i learned from this, from having walked in your shoes. 

i learned how to tell when a relationship is over. i see it now, but didnt recognize the signs then. it when the other person (or yourself) cares more for themself than your happiness or well being.

i said many of the things you said. I could never trust again, i would never get married again, i would never let myslef be exposed and vulnerable again and so forth.

I'm in a relationship now, and she would walk across hot coals barefoot to bring me the TV remote, without being asked. its the little things that show you, and when you have that kind of connection, its easy to see when there is something wrong. i find myself thinking about cool things we can do together, rather than looking to be away from her.

dont beat yourself up over the mistakes you made. learn from them so you dont repeat them and go on to a better life. it is possible, but you have to be willing to take a hard look at yourself.


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## the guy

I think people change.
Some folks change for the better and as untrustworthy as they were they can become trust worth.

So in the same breath some people can *become* untrustworthy.

So with that said I think watching out for someone you know well is changing...it stands to reason that also your trust in that person changes.

For example if you witness a certain individual no longer have such a temper, taking action in getting help. and being happier well then one can be witness to a change for the better in that individual.

Just like the other side of the coin dictates an individual can suddenly be come quick to get angry, become distance, and fighting all the time....well then one can be witness to a change in this person...for the worse.

My thinking is you get respect/trust from me when you earn it, just like I can take away respect/trust when you phuck it all up!

I'm not going to worry about what *might* happen to me, I'm going to be observant enough to know when someone is about to screw me over ...or do me a solid ...either way that person will get recognized for what they did to/for me not what they *might* do to/for me.

I also think folks have expectations for others and I think having expectations for some one is messed up. Again they can either pull it off or not...it will be up to me what I do with them next.

Thats my $0.02


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## the guy

Now that pretty damn deep from a guy that pounds nails for a living.LOL


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## x598

the guy said:


> I think people change.
> Some folks change for the better and as untrustworthy as they were they can become trust worth.
> 
> So in the same breath some people can *become* untrustworthy.
> 
> So with that said I think watching out for someone you know well is changing...it stands to reason that also your trust in that person changes.
> 
> For example if you witness a certain individual no longer have such a temper, taking action in getting help. and being happier well then one can be witness to a change for the better in that individual.
> 
> Just like the other side of the coin dictates an individual can suddenly be come quick to get angry, become distance, and fighting all the time....well then one can be witness to a change in this person...for the worse.
> 
> My thinking is you get respect/trust from me when you earn it, just like I can take away respect/trust when you phuck it all up!
> 
> I'm not going to worry about what *might* happen to me, I'm going to be observant enough to know when someone is about to screw me over ...or do me a solid ...either way that person will get recognized for what they did to/for me not what they *might* do to/for me.
> 
> I also think folks have expectations for others and I think having expectations for some one is messed up. Again they can either pull it off or not...it will be up to me what I do with them next.
> 
> Thats my $0.02


this is excellent advice. simply put, people change.

the problem is it can be hard to see or recognize, even when shown to you. a great example explained to me is your children. they grow, slowly, but they "look" the same to you. then you go back and look at pictures from a few years before and can say "wow look how much they have grown and changed".

so as a person changes in a realtionship, the signs may be subtle. even when they do something totally out of character, its human to say "everyone has a bad day, or makes a mistake or does something stupid once in a while, so this cant be indicative of the person i married".

but the reality is that the change has occured. This forum is for talking about change for the worst, so im not going to comment about people that change for the better (and that does happen). 

the point is, learing to see the change and knowing how to react to it is a skill that i may never master.


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## Thound

I guess you should learn that not everyone can remain faithful. Sounds like to me you were a good husband and still are a great father. I wish you all the best going forward.


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## the guy

x598 said:


> this is excellent advice. simply put, people change.
> 
> the problem is it can be hard to see or recognize, even when shown to you. a great example explained to me is your children. they grow, slowly, but they "look" the same to you. then you go back and look at pictures from a few years before and can say "wow look how much they have grown and changed".
> 
> so as a person changes in a realtionship, the signs may be subtle. even when they do something totally out of character, its human to say "everyone has a bad day, or makes a mistake or does something stupid once in a while, so this cant be indicative of the person i married".
> 
> but the reality is that the change has occured. This forum is for talking about change for the worst, so im not going to comment about people that change for the better (and that does happen).
> 
> the point is, learing to see the change and knowing how to react to it is a skill that i may never master.


I think with experience you get better at seeing change. 

Your right though when I was young and the old lady started screwing around i would have never of guessed.

Just like when I was young I never would of thought my daughter would pass her state board 23 yrs later....especially after watching her parents phuck up a one car funeral...if you know what I mean.


You know even if this thread is about cheaten...the bottom line is no matter what ......a perant, employer, a sibling,,,,an off spring, and even a spouse...when you experience enough when dealing with folks, one has to learn a thing or two about when to trust and when to walk away/let go.

Man I spent all this typing when I could have just said people diserve the benifit of a doubt in wether you can trust them.

I mean you could meet a really good person and think they are crappy and miss out in knowing a really good person.

I still think expect nothing and see what happens.....just don't lend them money or give them your heart until they earned that kind of thing.....then if you get screwed over then it on the person that screwed you over.


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## Squeakr

bandit.45 said:


> I believe teachers, medical professionals and law enforcement personnel have the highest rates of infidelity of all the professions. It may have something to do with the stressful environments within these professions. Co-workers lean on each other for emotional support more in these professions and this leads to EAs/PAs.


Or maybe it is because the people in these professions are also generally outgoing and gregarious people that can talk to and develop confidences with people easily? I can think of other highly stressful professions where the people are more introverted and usually work by themselves and although the levels of stress may be the the same the levels of infidelities are drastically lower as the people are used to solving issues and resolving things without others' interventions or assistance?


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## warlock07

How did she react once you confronted her with the evidence?

How did her family react?

How did her co-workers react?(Was the school informed?)


What is your relationship with her now?


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## Lostinthought61

Unless they are made out of marble and can not breath Never place anyone on a pedestal.....no one is deserving of that honor, and in all likelihood they will only let you down in the future. its not fair to them and it is certainly not far to yourself worth. Last time i checked no one is perfect, we all have our flaws.....some greater than others..as you enter into a new relationship in the future remember that.


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## Forest

There is something we all should learn. Something so basic it goes unsaid in nearly all marriages.

Sit your spouse down early on, and tell them that cheating is of the devil, and will ruin your life, cause you to burn with white hot hate, and seek to destroy everyone involve with the cheating.

Unfortunately, this requires the hindsight and pain of experience.


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## tryingpatience

warlock07 said:


> How did she react once you confronted her with the evidence?
> 
> How did her family react?
> 
> How did her co-workers react?(Was the school informed?)
> 
> 
> What is your relationship with her now?


She denied it, until I revealed the evidence. No remorse. Her family are rug sweepers. Informed her co-workers but not the principal. Co-workers knew something was going on but let it go on.

My relationship with her now? Minimum contact. If we ever talk it is about the kids. I ignore her and I'm getting good at it. I told her if there is anything else to please email me about it. As someone here told me. Why waste my energy on her and the OM when I can be directing that energy towards myself and my kids. 

The teaching profession is predominately women. The one single guy in the school kept at it with her and she gave in. Their relationship was 3 yrs in the making. I know of another male teacher who cheated on his wife. He told me that he was tempted all the time being the only male in the school. I guess that is a lesson learned. Be weary of teachers :scratchhead:


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## Jellybeans

You should learn that blind trust is silly and that sometimes the people closest to you cause you the most harm.

Oh and that nothing in life is a guarantee. And that life goes on.


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## tryingpatience

Forest said:


> There is something we all should learn. Something so basic it goes unsaid in nearly all marriages.
> 
> Sit your spouse down early on, and tell them that cheating is of the devil, and will ruin your life, cause you to burn with white hot hate, and seek to destroy everyone involve with the cheating.
> 
> Unfortunately, this requires the hindsight and pain of experience.


When we went through our pre marriage course with the church. The priest asked us if we could forgive infidelity. She said yes and I said no.

I did catch a flirty email between the two of them after our first born and I lost it. I told her that friends don't speak to each other that way. She said that they were just friends. I told her to set him straight. She said she did and naively I believed her. With the stress of the baby and getting pregnant again soon after I didn't realize that she just stopped bringing him up and started taking her infatuation underground.


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## convert

Yes you learn to never give anyone blind trust, never.
at best 98% trust is the max
heck I don't trust myself that much


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## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> When we went through our pre marriage course with the church. The priest asked us if we could forgive infidelity. She said yes and I said no.
> 
> I did catch a flirty email between the two of them after our first born and I lost it. I told her that friends don't speak to each other that way. She said that they were just friends. I told her to set him straight. She said she did and naively I believed her. With the stress of the baby and getting pregnant again soon after I didn't realize that she just stopped bringing him up and started taking her infatuation underground.


Sounds like the warning flags were there right from the beginning. It appears, from what you have just written, she was just never into you or the marriage to begin with and never had any intention of being faithful. That is very sad. She has no respect for marriage, the institution or the vows.

Some people look at being married as a job, not a life, and as long as they are satisfying all the superficial, outward requirements of that job, they think its okay to have fun on the side. 

I will never understand these people who get married for reasons other than love and affection. Your WW stands no chance of making a lasting life with the OM. She will cheat on him down the line the same way she did with you.


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## maincourse99

_Unless they are made out of marble and can not breath Never place anyone on a pedestal.....no one is deserving of that honor, _

I knew my ex was far from perfect, but I put our relationship on a pedestal, believed what she told me, that we would always be together and that our love would overcome anything. 

I was thinking recently how we meet someone, in my case I knew her for just under a year before we got married, and think we know them. Impossible. We really don't know anyone, including parents and siblings that we've known since birth, much less a stranger who wanders into our lives.

Romantic relationships are a gamble, an educated guess. I will never give a woman that part of myself that I gave to my ex, I gave 100% and opened myself to her. My eyes have been opened.


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## tryingpatience

bandit.45 said:


> Sounds like the warning flags were there right from the beginning. It appears, from what you have just written, she was just never into you or the marriage to begin with and never had any intention of being faithful. That is very sad. She has no respect for marriage, the institution or the vows.
> 
> Some people look at being married as a job, not a life, and as long as they are satisfying all the superficial, outward requirements of that job, they think its okay to have fun on the side.
> 
> I will never understand these people who get married for reasons other than love and affection. Your WW stands no chance of making a lasting life with the OM. She will cheat on him down the line the same way she did with you.


She denied me sex and love for the past year. Looking back I realize now that she was being faithful to the OM. She was already out of the marriage by then and was cake eating. She did sometimes feel guilty about it (would sometimes cry when I kissed her or held her) but it wasn't enough for her to stop it. In the end I gave her what she wanted. Not on her timeline but mine.


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## 6301

tryingpatience said:


> She denied me sex and love for the past year. Looking back I realize now that she was being faithful to the OM. She was already out of the marriage by then and was cake eating. She did sometimes feel guilty about it (would sometimes cry when I kissed her or held her) but it wasn't enough for her to stop it. In the end I gave her what she wanted. Not on her timeline but mine.


 There was your warning sign. Look. You didn't make a mistake, she did and yeah you got hurt over it. I know the feeling like a lot of other posters have been.

What you should have done was not only contact the principal but the school board too. She wants to step out of the marriage and have an affair, then bring the house down on her so she realizes that she can't do this without paying the price.

I'd be willing to bet everything I own plus what you own that if the shoe was on the other foot and you had the affair, she would have no mercy on you.


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## warlock07

> Informed her co-workers but not the principal.


I would make an official complaint with the principal and school. Was the OM married ?

That should also out an end to her 'everything is normal' conversations. 

The co-workers know what they know about you from your stbxw. Wouldn't blame them too much.


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## warlock07

tryingpatience said:


> She denied me sex and love for the past year. Looking back I realize now that she was being faithful to the OM. She was already out of the marriage by then and was cake eating. She did sometimes feel guilty about it (would sometimes cry when I kissed her or held her) but it wasn't enough for her to stop it.





Man...Some of these stories....

Don't these cheaters have a heart ?? 2.5 years!!


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## michzz

warlock07 said:


> Man...Some of these stories....
> 
> Don't these cheaters have a heart ?? 2.5 years!!


I wish my ex only cheated for that long before I found out the ugly details and divorced her.

The OP is a good man and fortunate to being getting out of that marriage.


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## tryingpatience

warlock07 said:


> I would make an official complaint with the principal and school. Was the OM married ?
> 
> That should also out an end to her 'everything is normal' conversations.
> 
> The co-workers know what they know about you from your stbxw. Wouldn't blame them too much.


Didn't expose to school board. Legal advice I was given was not to. If she loses her job I could end up paying child / spousal support. I can live with the exposure I accomplished. Teachers talk, people ask questions.


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## x598

tryingpatience said:


> Didn't expose to school board. Legal advice I was given was not to. If she loses her job I could end up paying child / spousal support. I can live with the exposure I accomplished. Teachers talk, people ask questions.


you are 100% correct. people talk. it gets out.

in my example, my EW was banging a client, a hot shot CEO of a company she was selling to. i exposed to the POSOM's wife, but never went to her work or his. 

a few months later, he was fired. karma bus i'd like to think.


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## LongWalk

Put OM on Cheaterville


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## Ripper

tryingpatience said:


> I did catch a flirty email between the two of them after our first born and I lost it.


Don't know if it has been covered elsewhere, but my first thought on seeing this is DNA testing the kids.


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## tryingpatience

Ripper said:


> Don't know if it has been covered elsewhere, but my first thought on seeing this is DNA testing the kids.


I've been told this by many here. No need to because the OM is white and I'm asian, stbxw is too. There is no doubt.

Also, I did put the OM on cheaterville after seeing other posters who did the same.


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## warlock07

tryingpatience said:


> Didn't expose to school board. Legal advice I was given was not to. If she loses her job I could end up paying child / spousal support. I can live with the exposure I accomplished. Teachers talk, people ask questions.


She had 2.5 years to set up what kind of person you are infront of her co-workers


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## manfromlamancha

tryingpatience said:


> I've been told this by many here. No need to because the OM is white and I'm asian, stbxw is too. There is no doubt.
> 
> Also, I did put the OM on cheaterville after seeing other posters who did the same.


If you PM us the link to the Cheaterville post, we will drive up the number of hits on it which will propel it forward in the Google search rankings. Send me the link and I will start driving it forward. Don't post the link in your thread as it might be traceable from a search engine.


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## murphy5

Squeakr said:


> Or maybe it is because the people in these professions are also generally outgoing and gregarious people that can talk to and develop confidences with people easily? I can think of other highly stressful professions where the people are more introverted and usually work by themselves and although the levels of stress may be the the same the levels of infidelities are drastically lower as the people are used to solving issues and resolving things without others' interventions or assistance?


teachers, nurses, law enforcement....all have to deal with the WHOLE of society. Most other professions, you hang out with....well....professionals. Law enforcement, you spend a good deal of the day with hookers, drugies, violent offenders, theifs. Teachers...you have the good kids and the bad ones....especially innercity schools. Nurses...you get to treat nice people, homeless crack heads, prositutes with every known std...

in other words, their jobs thrust them into tight contact with bad people, and they may loose their bearings after that.


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## the guy

murphy5 said:


> teachers, nurses, law enforcement....all have to deal with the WHOLE of society. Most other professions, you hang out with....well....professionals. Law enforcement, you spend a good deal of the day with hookers, drugies, violent offenders, theifs. Teachers...you have the good kids and the bad ones....especially innercity schools. Nurses...you get to treat nice people, homeless crack heads, prositutes with every known std...
> 
> in other words, their jobs thrust them into tight contact with bad people, and they may loose their bearings after that.


Or, one can be that violent offender and your old lady phucks some kind, soft, sensitive POS!

My point is if your going to get screwed over by your spouse, its your wayward that has the issue. Their "bearings" .......well there are plenty of folks in the real world that my never have to deal with the crap us betrayed went thru ... what ever kind of job one has.

Just saying this violent offender doesnt bang married chicks, that all!


----------



## tryingpatience

Something I'm learning now is that no matter how focused I am on my goal of detaching I still keep getting pulled back. I had some really awful triggers this weekend. Went to a party and heard music we use to dance to. Father's day was also a trigger. It doesn't make sense because I should be sick and disgusted of her for what she's done. Yet I have these triggers.


----------



## dadof2

tryingpatience said:


> Something I'm learning now is that no matter how focused I am on my goal of detaching I still keep getting pulled back. I had some really awful triggers this weekend. Went to a party and heard music we use to dance to. Father's day was also a trigger. It doesn't make sense because I should be sick and disgusted of her for what she's done. Yet I have these triggers.


I know exactly what you mean. Our stories are similar, my STBX is a teacher who is having an affair with her assistant principal. DDay was just over 2 months ago, and she moved out about 6 weeks ago. I know what she has done and she has already taken my kids to his house. In my mind I hate her for it with every fiber of my being, but my heart still feels the triggers and immediately thinks of the good times together.

From what I have read on these forums and from my IC, I am learning that these triggers can be a good thing. Over time they become less and less strong, and then we finally start to turn the corner. In my STBX's case, she has not faced any of these issues as she left our marriage and went straight to OM. As my therapist says, she can't run from her issues forever. I am facing them every day and it is hard, but I will come through it a better person. She is trying to go around the issue and never face it, but she can't avoid it forever.

I know how hard it is, there are days when I still wake up at 3 am and wonder what I could have done differently. She blamed the whole thing on me, but I have realized that cheating is all on her. I am slowly getting better, and the time I have with the kids makes it so much better. My heart aches to think of their future, but I can only worry about the present so I try to make the most of every minute with them.


----------



## badmemory

tryingpatience said:


> I guess that is a lesson learned. Be weary of teachers :scratchhead:


Indeed. That's why my WW is no longer one.


----------



## tryingpatience

dadof2 said:


> From what I have read on these forums and from my IC, I am learning that these triggers can be a good thing. Over time they become less and less strong, and then we finally start to turn the corner. In my STBX's case, she has not faced any of these issues as she left our marriage and went straight to OM. As my therapist says, she can't run from her issues forever. I am facing them every day and it is hard, but I will come through it a better person. She is trying to go around the issue and never face it, but she can't avoid it forever.


That's some good insight right there dadof2. I've always pushed her to face her problems but she's always tried to avoid them. I'll start looking at the triggers as a way of facing my problems instead of focusing on the pain.


----------



## LongWalk

TryingPatience,

I noticed that you start new threads which don't last very long. This actually distracts those who on the journey with you because they must realize you have started something new. So unless there is a major thematic change, I suggest you stick mainly to one thread.

How old are you?

You seem pessimistic about your sex ranking. Do not doubt that you can find women to replace your wife. As I suggested earlier hit the gym hard. Since you have 50/50 custody you can really train hard. If you pick sports, you can meet people. Running, skydiving, scuba, CrossFit, underwater hockey, soccer, badminton, etc. Being fit and lean will give you self confidence. Women are animals and they are attracted to physical attributes.

Machiavelli, a TAM poster whose name you can search, has posted many times about turning this around.

I think that you once mentioned that you and your ex-wife are Asian. Sometimes Asian American men feel like women from their ethnic group reject them in favor of White men, whom they consider less nerdy. Hence, the great enthusiasm for that Knick Chinese American basketball player who went to Harvard, forget his name now. Anyway, lighten up.

Your ex wife is a cheater. You may be a person of integrity. You need to learn how to laugh at the whole situation. "I was married to a cheater, haha, but I moved on, and she stayed a cheater, haha," is something you can say to yourself and laugh. Every time you laugh around some women, one of them at least will think "that guy is happy. I want some of that."

Indeed, some women want to give themselves to men who are happy.


----------



## happyman64

tryingpatience

use the next few months to become indifferent to her.

"She's just the mother of my kids"

COparent with her and nothing more.

She does not deserve your friendship.

But the kids deserve their Dad. A happy Dad. 

A Dad who tried to keep their family together.

So focus on you and your kids. Get the best custody deal you can get.

Keep it simple. 

You do not have to hate your STBXWW. You only have to tolerate her enough to be an effective coparent.

HM


----------



## dadof2

tryingpatience said:


> That's some good insight right there dadof2. I've always pushed her to face her problems but she's always tried to avoid them. I'll start looking at the triggers as a way of facing my problems instead of focusing on the pain.


Yes that's what I've started doing. It doesn't make them any easier to get through, but I think each time you face one and recognize it for what it is you are slowly putting a brick in the wall between you and her- and that's a good thing.

My brother's wife had my kids make me a Father's Day gift and gave it to me yesterday. I broke down and cried like a baby for 10 mins. I was just overwhelmed. But my STBX did not even text or acknowledge Father's Day to me other than a crumpled card from the children that she stuffed in my son's backpack at daycare on Friday. My children are too young to understand the concept of Father's Day but that hurt me that STBX wouldn't do anything. I honestly wasn't expecting anything from her but I guess when it really happened it hit me pretty good.

These are just more examples of how the pain pops up in my life. It hurts me more than anything to know that STBX is off all summer and is probably with OM right now as we speak thinking her life is so grand. That hurts a lot. I am working on trying to get to the indifferent stage, but it seems a long way off right now.


----------



## happyman64

Your time will come Dadof2.

Focus on you. Your kids.

Stop wasting time thinking of her when you know she is not thinking of you.

Push your attorney to keep moving forward.

I really do wish you would push for depositions just to make her and the OM crap in their pants.


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> TryingPatience,
> 
> How old are you?
> 
> You seem pessimistic about your sex ranking. Do not doubt that you can find women to replace your wife. As I suggested earlier hit the gym hard. Since you have 50/50 custody you can really train hard. If you pick sports, you can meet people. Running, skydiving, scuba, CrossFit, underwater hockey, soccer, badminton, etc. Being fit and lean will give you self confidence. Women are animals and they are attracted to physical attributes.


I'm 34. I've been with the ex for a long time so I'm slowly getting back into it. I've hung out with a few women these past few weeks. For lunch, drinks etc., mostly friends. Some of them single. Just not into them that way, but trying to get my mind there. I have to say it's helped a lot. I do feel that I do get some interest but the ups and downs I'm going through are too much of a distraction right now. So I'm doing all the right things, just not feeling myself yet. I do doubt sometimes about finding a good woman. Not thinking about replacing, just trying to figure out how to have fun again. I'm joining a gym this Friday.


----------



## treyvion

tryingpatience said:


> I'm 34. I've been with the ex for a long time so I'm slowly getting back into it. I've hung out with a few women these past few weeks. For lunch, drinks etc., mostly friends. Some of them single. Just not into them that way, but trying to get my mind there. I have to say it's helped a lot. I do feel that I do get some interest but the ups and downs I'm going through are too much of a distraction right now. So I'm doing all the right things, just not feeling myself yet. I do doubt sometimes about finding a good woman. Not thinking about replacing, just trying to figure out how to have fun again. I'm joining a gym this Friday.


Fun first, more later. Get out there like a guy again. Good advice to the rest of us to not overcomplicate it.


----------



## tryingpatience

I'm trying to get the house sold. It's pretty hard trying to get rid of all the stuff, especially when there are memories involved. She's so cold and business like with me. It stings and hurts but I'm trying not to let it affect me. It's like this person has no feelings anymore.

stbxw admitted to me a few weeks ago that she knows that the OM doesn't give a crap about our kids. It came out when I pressed her about where she is going to live. It's been playing in my mind ever since. All this for what? She's tried apologizing to our friends but doesn't even have the courage to talk to me about what's happened. She's living with her parents right now and that's where the kids will be staying while they are with her.

I'm moving into my parents house with the kids at the end of this week. I've prepared them for the move and they are amped to have their own bedrooms. I no longer worry about them anymore. I know they'll cope and adjust.

I've found that a good outlet for me is writing and journalling. Sometimes though it seems like I can't write enough about it. Sometimes I wish I could shut off my brain. I'm too analytical sometimes.


----------



## dadof2

tryingpatience said:


> I've found that a good outlet for me is writing and journalling. Sometimes though it seems like I can't write enough about it. Sometimes I wish I could shut off my brain. I'm too analytical sometimes.


I have found this helps me also. I have written several "letters" to STBX's family to tell them about her affair and how I feel about things. I will probably never send them, but it helps to look at it every day and realize that I am not the bad guy in all of this.

One thing my therapist told me to do was open up my hand and say all of the things out loud that I want her parents to know about me. As I say each one, I use my other hand to "place" each statement in my open hand. Once I am done I close my hand and make a fist. My therapist said, "Now that you have your hand full of these things, will what they think of you change any of them." It made a lot of sense to me. Basically I want her parents to know that I was a good husband, a good dad, and that I didn't treat their daughter like she is telling them I did. My therapist said that as parents they will always believe their daughter over me, so I need to listen to my statements myself and realize that I don't need validation from them to know I was a good husband.

Little things like that help me along the way, but I am still waiting to expose the affair to her parents. I would like to do it right away, but in my situation I am letting my lawyer get all of our paperwork finished then I can start exposing. The wait has been agonizingly slow.


----------



## happyman64

Both of you guys are going to be great. Not good but great.

You married selfish idiots.

It happens to the best of us. As we all can attest to.

Keep focusing on the Divorce. Then you can focus 100% on your futures.

There are good woman out there.

HM


----------



## Dreald

Never get married.

Never cohabitate.

Always keep it wrapped and flush it down the toilet when you're through.

Never let a woman control your future -- you're the one responsible for your life.

When you realize the only way to win is not to play the game.


----------



## tryingpatience

Why is it that so many who have been betrayed get blindsided by it? I really feel like I didn't get a chance to fix anything until it was too late. Does this happen to all marriages? I know I'm not perfect but I was a good man, that I know. She could have clearly told me what she felt or gotten help.

I've met so many people who have gone through the same thing with their spouse. Are there couples out there who overcome this pitfall i.e. they are able to realize that something is lost or broken and fight to fix their marriage.


----------



## Just Joe

tryingpatience said:


> It's been a month since I exposed my stbxw's affair. An affair that had gone on with a co-worker for 2.5 years. WW and OP were planning on living a life together the whole time. They were looking for a place together and consulting a lawyer while I was in the dark.
> 
> I only became aware of the problem a year ago when she stopped saying "I love you" and sex stopped. We tried MC but she lied through the whole thing and nothing came out of it. After posting my problem here I installed keyloggers on her laptop and found out the truth. The truth set me free .
> 
> The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. *She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough.* Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?
> 
> I thought I picked a good person. She spoke about how important family was. She had a good profession as a teacher. She was never one to lie, until our marriage. We improved as a couple, we communicated more and were best friends. Is the lesson learned her that people change and we just have to accept that? Do women change after having babies? The whole time I thought that was what was happening. She was going through some midlife change.
> 
> After some reflection I admit that I did put her on a pedestal at times but I also did complain when I wasn't happy. I fought for my marriage always. I am a beta / alpha mix. I've always been an active person and do alpha things i.e. martial arts, hanging out with the boys etc. I don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry. I also play with my kids and love putting them to bed.
> 
> *So what are your thoughts on this? * I'm continuing my journey on this new path and would appreciate your comments.


Have confidence in yourself. Don't allow people to manipulate you into believing you aren't doing enough or you are controlling (or anything else), when you don't feel it's true. Be confident in your assessment of the situation.


----------



## kenmoore14217

tryingpatience said:


> Why is it that so many who have been betrayed get blindsided by it? I really feel like I didn't get a chance to fix anything until it was too late. Does this happen to all marriages? I know I'm not perfect but I was a good man, that I know. She could have clearly told me what she felt or gotten help.
> 
> I've met so many people who have gone through the same thing with their spouse. Are there couples out there who overcome this pitfall i.e. they are able to realize that something is lost or broken and fight to fix their marriage.


Cheaters are like Tarzan. They want to make sure they have a secure hold on the 'next' vine before releasing the 'old' vine


----------



## tryingpatience

kenmoore14217 said:


> Cheaters are like Tarzan. They want to make sure they have a secure hold on the 'next' vine before releasing the 'old' vine


I see that and it explains her behaviour. My friends keep telling me to move on, to get over it, that it wasn't me, that she never really wanted this life with me. I know they care but wtf. It's hard to talk to friends and family about the situation. They don't seem to know what to say and it gets awkward. I think it's because many of them are still in shock.

Moving the kids out of the house and into my parents this weekend. Separation agreement is done, it just needs to be signed. Going out a lot. Tonight for drinks with co-workers. Still waiting for it to feel fun and normal but still not there yet. Is that normal?


----------



## tryingpatience

Thought I would post an update and see if anyone had any thoughts.

Kids are adjusting well and they are happy. I'm adjusting also. Every time she drops off the kids she looks like she's going to cry. I notice every time she does drop them off she is looking her best. No need to dress up for a drop off. 

The house is being listed this week. I told her to clean out all the junk in the house so it can be viewed and she did it. I have a separation agreement signed and I've gotten everything that I wanted. She signed the separation agreement without all her lawyers amendments because I told her to. It's like she's just going along with anything I tell her.

I've read a lot about how it's played out for a lot of people here and the amount of suffering I see her in now isn't enough for me. Granted I don't know how she is when I'm not around and I don't even know if the OM is still in the picture. The problem I have is that I know too much. I've pieced together everything with the trail of emails spanning 2 years. All the lies and scheming. I have an appointment to see a counsellor this week.


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> I see that and it explains her behaviour. My friends keep telling me to move on, to get over it, that it wasn't me, that she never really wanted this life with me. I know they care but wtf. It's hard to talk to friends and family about the situation. They don't seem to know what to say and it gets awkward. I think it's because many of them are still in shock.
> 
> Moving the kids out of the house and into my parents this weekend. Separation agreement is done, it just needs to be signed. Going out a lot. Tonight for drinks with co-workers. Still waiting for it to feel fun and normal but still not there yet. Is that normal?


Yes. Perfectly normal. Glad to see you making forward progress.


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> Thought I would post an update and see if anyone had any thoughts.
> 
> Kids are adjusting well and they are happy. I'm adjusting also. Every time she drops off the kids she looks like she's going to cry. I notice every time she does drop them off she is looking her best. No need to dress up for a drop off.
> 
> The house is being listed this week. I told her to clean out all the junk in the house so it can be viewed and she did it. I have a separation agreement signed and I've gotten everything that I wanted. She signed the separation agreement without all her lawyers amendments because I told her to. It's like she's just going along with anything I tell her.
> 
> I've read a lot about how it's played out for a lot of people here and the amount of suffering I see her in now isn't enough for me. Granted I don't know how she is when I'm not around and I don't even know if the OM is still in the picture. The problem I have is that I know too much. I've pieced together everything with the trail of emails spanning 2 years. All the lies and scheming. I have an appointment to see a counsellor this week.



Don't be surprised if she starts acting like a free hooker. Now that she is unbound she may let her freak flag fly and start bedding men left and right...regardless of the OM's status. Steel yourself for it and prepare for it. Her tears and crying mean nothing. If they downside be on her knees doing obeisance to you, begging you not to end it.


----------



## LongWalk

Is she trying to reconcile?

What do you make if her personality now?

What could you read of the email trail?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> Is she trying to reconcile?
> 
> What do you make if her personality now?
> 
> What could you read of the email trail?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I'm prepared for her to be the hooker she always wanted to be. When we started having problems last year she told a friend that she felt trapped, that she couldn't do it anymore, that she was flirty and couldn't be herself.

No signs of her trying to reconcile. I'm not getting any resistance. Like I mentioned she's just going a long with what I tell her. She lives with her parents when she has the kids, not sure what she does when she doesn't.

With the emails I've learned about how she would meet up with the OM before school at a near by park. I've pieced together times when she would say she was with co-workers or alone but secretly meeting with him. They would facetime when she was supposedly marking and I was in the house. She was fulfilling all of his sexual fantasies i.e. lingerie, high heels, oils, anal etc. and she was always hoping he would be the step dad (she would hint at it to him). She was even watching porn and was on reddit to figure out how to do certain sexual things i.e. anal. Believe me, it's not like I didn't ask for those things. She would also complain about the kids and the family things we would do together. 

One of the first emails (2 years ago) in the secret mailbox was his apartment address and him saying he loved her. That tells me their relationship started way before. He was basically telling her that he never saw her as a wife, that she would always be the single woman he started working with. They would send pictures of each other and share what was going on in their lives. All that time she was trying to be faithful to him. Lying to herself and to me pretending that it was her identity she was trying to find and all the other BS. She was also afraid of what other people might think.


----------



## tryingpatience

She told a friend that I didn't let her talk to guys and that I wouldn't even let her talk to her principal??? I always tried not to be the jealous type. I questioned her sometimes about having lunch with the OM, just the two of them, when I thought it was just friendly. I told her I wouldn't like it if it happened often, lunch just the two of them. Is it too much to expect that your partner should make you feel secure so you don't have to question this kind of thing? 

She never made any effort to keep the friendships she had with her girlfriends. I encouraged her to try. Should that have been a red flag for me? She would spend more of her time talking with guy co-workers.


----------



## NoRush

Chaparral said:


> What I've learned here is don't date teachers or nurses. Just don't understand why that is.
> 
> Oh yeah, don't let your wife go to the gym, yoga, club, dancing, theater group and GNO's without you.


Teachers deal with spoiled brats all day. Nurses work long shifts where they see people at their worst. I think the stress -- and the suddenness of the stress and the way it builds -- is a heavy contributor. Nurses also have a certain appeal based on their profession.

With those various groups you mentioned, I think it's okay IF AND ONLY IF you are doing those things with her. Working out together with your spouse is a proven way to help add stability to your relationship. Letting your spouse dance with other men? Ha, good luck.

Also beware pilots (esp. male) and flight attendants (either gender).

The one that surprises me is that I don't see more sales/marketing types show up.


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> She told a friend that I didn't let her talk to guys and that I wouldn't even let her talk to her principal??? I always tried not to be the jealous type. I questioned her sometimes about having lunch with the OM, just the two of them, when I thought it was just friendly. I told her I wouldn't like it if it happened often, lunch just the two of them. Is it too much to expect that your partner should make you feel secure so you don't have to question this kind of thing?
> 
> She never made any effort to keep the friendships she had with her girlfriends. I encouraged her to try. Should that have been a red flag for me? She would spend more of her time talking with guy co-workers.


Who cares? Really. I'm pretty sure her GFs all knew about the affair. That's why they distanced themselves from the situation. You were her husband and you had a right to ask those questions. She's a cheat and a sneak who was pissed you weren't letting her have her fun. She got her hand caught in the cookie jar. 

But again, who cares? You are moving on and she will continue on with her self destructive cycle. You have been freed from NeverNever Land. Bask in the knowledge you will soon be free of this parasite. 

By the way....when are you going to get angry at her?


----------



## tryingpatience

bandit.45 said:


> Who cares? Really. I'm pretty sure her GFs all knew about the affair. That's why they distanced themselves from the situation. You were her husband and you had a right to ask those questions. She's a cheat and a sneak who was pissed you weren't letting her have her fun. She got her hand caught in the cookie jar.
> 
> But again, who cares? You are moving on and she will continue on with her self destructive cycle. You have been freed from NeverNever Land. Bask in the knowledge you will soon be free of this parasite.
> 
> By the way....when are you going to get angry at her?



It might not have shown here but I am f*kin pissed. I wanted to destroy her but I needed to be strategic and I got what I wanted from the separation agreement, which was control over my investment account. I acted as quickly as I could when she was feeling some guilt. I'm not making any time for her unless it has to do with the kids.

I've also had to recently cut my friendship with my best friend because his fiancee insists on speaking to my ex and supporting her and he doesn't have the balls to say anything. He didn't turn out to be a good friend after all. I was going to be his best man at his wedding next year. Not anymore though.

The fallout from this sucks but I see it as a purge of all the negative things in my life. I'm taking out the trash and I'm burning it. You're right, no more parasites.


----------



## bandit.45

You know, Poida finally bubbled up and let loose on his STBXWW one day when they were fixing up their house to sell. He just opened up the floodgates and let loose on her.. Called her a wh0re, slvt, and a whole bunch more frills and dressings...got it out of his system. 

He claims it helped him turn the corner towards acceptance and gave him the resolve to finally begin detaching. I had my reservations about him doing that, but I've changed my mind I the matter.

I think after you get her to sign the agreement you should let loose and tell her what you think of her.


----------



## LongWalk

> I'm prepared for her to be the hooker she always wanted to be. When we started having problems last year she told a friend that she felt trapped, that she couldn't do it anymore, that she was flirty and couldn't be herself.
> 
> No signs of her trying to reconcile. I'm not getting any resistance. Like I mentioned she's just going a long with what I tell her. She lives with her parents when she has the kids, not sure what she does when she doesn't


Why did you feel that she wanted to let loose sexually? 

It must have been frustrating to feel that she had an itch you couldn't scratch. You would have had to have re-made yourself along the lines of MMSLP and even then who knows if you would have succeeded.

Why is she dressing up to see you? Is she looking for affirmation that you don't hate her?


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> Why did you feel that she wanted to let loose sexually?
> 
> It must have been frustrating to feel that she had an itch you couldn't scratch. You would have had to have re-made yourself along the lines of MMSLP and even then who knows if you would have succeeded.
> 
> Why is she dressing up to see you? Is she looking for affirmation that you don't hate her?


I don't think she was sexually frustrated, I'm just coming to terms with the things she did with the OM. I was always ready and able to give it to her. 

I know that she was always afraid of what other people thought of her and she would always get down on herself if I ever got angry or frustrated with her. At one point during our problems she asked me if I hated her. So she is afraid of that also.


----------



## Philat

tryingpatience said:


> She told a friend that I didn't let her talk to guys and that I wouldn't even let her talk to her principal??? I always tried not to be the jealous type. I questioned her sometimes about having lunch with the OM, just the two of them, when I thought it was just friendly. I told her I wouldn't like it if it happened often, lunch just the two of them. Is it too much to expect that your partner should make you feel secure so you don't have to question this kind of thing?
> 
> She never made any effort to keep the friendships she had with her girlfriends. I encouraged her to try. Should that have been a red flag for me? *She would spend more of her time talking with guy co-workers.*


Part of her rewriting. But Bandit is right--Who cares? 

Re the bolded part: Attention wh0re.


----------



## michzz

Stay the course until the divorce is granted. 

If you piss her off the separation agreement will not carry over to your advantage all the way through.

Vent here or to a loyal friend or two, none with links to your soon to be ex wife.

The answer to why she cheated and how could you pick such an awful woman as a wife?

You'll never really get those answers.


----------



## NoRush

dadof2 said:


> I have found this helps me also. I have written several "letters" to STBX's family to tell them about her affair and how I feel about things. I will probably never send them, but it helps to look at it every day and realize that I am not the bad guy in all of this.
> 
> One thing my therapist told me to do was open up my hand and say all of the things out loud that I want her parents to know about me. As I say each one, I use my other hand to "place" each statement in my open hand. Once I am done I close my hand and make a fist. My therapist said, "Now that you have your hand full of these things, will what they think of you change any of them." It made a lot of sense to me. Basically I want her parents to know that I was a good husband, a good dad, and that I didn't treat their daughter like she is telling them I did. My therapist said that as parents they will always believe their daughter over me, so I need to listen to my statements myself and realize that I don't need validation from them to know I was a good husband.
> 
> Little things like that help me along the way, but I am still waiting to expose the affair to her parents. I would like to do it right away, but in my situation I am letting my lawyer get all of our paperwork finished then I can start exposing. The wait has been agonizingly slow.


WHAT? You never exposed her to her parents????

I'm on your side dude, but IMO you kicked yourself in the balls there. 1) She will now feed her parents the information she wants them to have. This could have repercussions with regards to your family. 2) She walks away with less guilt.

Don't let yourself be the victim. You have to take the mentality that this is a FIGHT.

Edit: I don't mean to hijack. I replied here because you posted here, but further posts should probably go to your thread.


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> I don't think she was sexually frustrated, I'm just coming to terms with the things she did with the OM. I was always ready and able to give it to her.
> 
> I know that she was always afraid of what other people thought of her and she would always get down on herself if I ever got angry or frustrated with her. At one point during our problems she asked me if I hated her. So she is afraid of that also.


And why should this bother you?

Hate her. 

Tell her you hate her. What is she going to do? Divorce you?


----------



## michzz

bandit.45 said:


> And why should this bother you?
> 
> Hate her.
> 
> Tell her you hate her. What is she going to do? Divorce you?


I went that route, told her of my hatred and disgust of her.

Her reaction? My problem since "God" had forgiven her.


----------



## bandit.45

michzz said:


> I went that route, told her of my hatred and disgust of her.
> 
> Her reaction? My problem since "God" had forgiven her.


Oh yeah....standard Nuevo Christian pseudo-spiritual babble. I've run into idiot Christians like this. They are a plague.


----------



## michzz

bandit.45 said:


> Oh yeah....standard Nuevo Christian pseudo-spiritual babble. I've run into idiot Christians like this. They are a plague.


the ex actually tried to convince me that whatever happened between us (never in active voice, as in whatever she inflicted on me) was between her and God. That I should just stop "harassing her" about it and realize that.

Total nutjob.


----------



## 3putt

michzz said:


> the ex actually tried to convince me that whatever happened between us (never in active voice, as in whatever she inflicted on me) was between her and God. That I should just stop "harassing her" about it and realize that.
> 
> Total nutjob.


Since God forgives those that repent and sin no more, perhaps she should learn the difference between God forgiving and forsaking.


----------



## bandit.45

michzz said:


> the ex actually tried to convince me that whatever happened between us (never in active voice, as in whatever she inflicted on me) was between her and God. That I should just stop "harassing her" about it and realize that.
> 
> Total nutjob.


But this is a very prevalent false doctrine that is being spread by the "feel good" Christianity movement today. It's disgusting. Totally self-oriented, which goes totally against 2,000 years of Christian doctrine.


----------



## michzz

bandit.45 said:


> But this is a very prevalent false doctrine that is being spread by the "feel good" Christianity movement today. It's disgusting. Totally self-oriented, which goes totally against 2,000 years of Christian doctrine.


Oh, she isn't even doing this in a Christian context. At least any that I understand.

Google "Ascended Masters", "St Germaine", or "Violent Flame Meditation".


----------



## Truthseeker1

bandit.45 said:


> But this is a very prevalent false doctrine that is being spread by the *"feel good" Christianity* movement today. It's disgusting. Totally self-oriented, which goes totally against 2,000 years of Christian doctrine.


Drove me far away from church...


----------



## larry.gray

tryingpatience said:


> I've been told this by many here. No need to because the OM is white and I'm asian, stbxw is too. There is no doubt.


There is some ambiguity with that. Your wife is white or asian? If she's asian, a kid fathered by a white dude might still look quite asian.


----------



## bandit.45

michzz said:


> Oh, she isn't even doing this in a Christian context. At least any that I understand.
> 
> Google "Ascended Masters", "St Germaine", or "Violent Flame Meditation".


Oh man. That sounds like cult talk.


----------



## michzz

bandit.45 said:


> Oh man. That sounds like cult talk.


first word, sounds like...


----------



## Wolf9

larry.gray said:


> There is some ambiguity with that. Your wife is white or asian? If she's asian, a kid fathered by a white dude might still look quite asian.


That's why DNA test is must. There is lot of ambiguity about PA & birth of second child.


----------



## tryingpatience

Wolf9 said:


> That's why DNA test is must. There is lot of ambiguity about PA & birth of second child.


I didn't think it was necessary because he looks exactly like me. Our baby pictures are almost identical. But I keep getting the same advice. I'll book an appointment. It won't hurt to get a test.


----------



## tom67

tryingpatience said:


> I didn't think it was necessary because he looks exactly like me. Our baby pictures are almost identical. But I keep getting the same advice. I'll book an appointment. It won't hurt to get a test.


You can go to walmart and get one.
Costs around $130 now.


----------



## Philat

michzz said:


> the ex actually tried to convince me that* whatever happened between us (never in active voice, as in whatever she inflicted on me) was between her and God.* That I should just stop "harassing her" about it and realize that.
> 
> Total nutjob.


:rofl: I'm sorry, there's just something about this that is totally hilarious. I wonder how she knows God has forgiven her? Crop circles?


----------



## michzz

Philat said:


> :rofl: I'm sorry, there's just something about this that is totally hilarious. I wonder how she knows God has forgiven her? Crop circles?


No, nothing as crazy as that. St. Germaine channeled though a guy named Ashnamurti relieved her of that burden during youtube violet flame meditation.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Hi!

So sorry to hear what you've been going through! I wish you and the kids all the best, and that your stbxww one day pulls her cr-p together so she can become a better person and above all, a better (co)parent to the kids.

May I ask have you thought about:
- setting up counselling for the kids (with or without you)? (I think my life would have been much better if my parents signed me up when i was a child, instead of thinking I would be ok. I hid a lot of sadness etc. so they would think I was ok.)
- joining a divorce support group?
- reading a book called No more mr. Nice guy (it helped me a lot)? Available online in PDF.
- reading a book called Toxic parents (it helped me a lot)? Available online in PDF.
- reading a book "Families and how to survive them" by Skynner, it was a great read.
- talking to their teachers about the stress they've been going through, what can you do to help them, if they could pay special attention to them etc.?

Best wishes!


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> I didn't think it was necessary because he looks exactly like me. Our baby pictures are almost identical. But I keep getting the same advice. I'll book an appointment. It won't hurt to get a test.


And take the cheek swab right in front of her. It will send her a clear message of what a promiscuous two-timing skank you think she is.


----------



## larry.gray

tryingpatience said:


> I didn't think it was necessary because he looks exactly like me. Our baby pictures are almost identical. But I keep getting the same advice. I'll book an appointment. It won't hurt to get a test.


It does depend on the context, hence my question. If your STBX wife is white and the kid looks asian, necessity isn't that strong. OTOH, if your wife is asian, get the dang test!


----------



## bandit.45

michzz said:


> No, nothing as crazy as that. St. Germaine channeled though a guy named Ashnamurti relieved her of that burden during youtube violet flame meditation.


:rofl::rofl::rofl: 

Oh my fvcking lord that's funny! :rofl:

So did Ashnmurti give Joseph Smith the golden goggles to read the revised Egyptian hieroglyphs that made up the golden tablets that contained the Book of Mormon, or was that Moroni? :scratchhead:


----------



## tryingpatience

larry.gray said:


> It does depend on the context, hence my question. If your STBX wife is white and the kid looks asian, necessity isn't that strong. OTOH, if your wife is asian, get the dang test!


She is Asian.


----------



## michzz

Philat said:


> :rofl: I'm sorry, there's just something about this that is totally hilarious. I wonder how she knows God has forgiven her? Crop circles?





michzz said:


> No, nothing as crazy as that. St. Germaine channeled though a guy named Ashnamurti relieved her of that burden during youtube violet flame meditation.





bandit.45 said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Oh my fvcking lord that's funny! :rofl:
> 
> So did Ashnmurti give Joseph Smith the golden goggles to read the revised Egyptian hieroglyphs that made up the golden tablets that contained the Book of Mormon, or was that Moroni? :scratchhead:


If it were not my life I would have been on the floor laughing all the time. 

I can laugh about it now, but that was NOT even a made up statement!


BTW, sorry about the threadjack. I'll stop.


----------



## ReidWright

tryingpatience said:


> I've been told this by many here. No need to because the OM is white and I'm asian, stbxw is too.


The OM you found out about is white. 

Sometimes a cheater will cheat on the OM too. In hindsight, do you have a shady relative/friend that was always a little too friendly with her?


----------



## warlock07

Does she know that you know the details?

How did she react to you finding out? Did she apologize at any point ?

It could be trouble in her paradise. Would you take her back if she expresses remorse for what she did ?


----------



## warlock07

tryingpatience said:


> She is Asian.


Was she born here or did you guys move to Canada ?


----------



## tryingpatience

warlock07 said:


> Was she born here or did you guys move to Canada ?


She was born in Canada. So was I. No other overly friendlies that I've come across. 

When she found out she denied at first until I told her I've seen the emails. She doesn't know the extent of what I know. She apologized but it was weak and when I asked for an explanation she couldn't speak. She said she was ashamed. She feels sorry for herself but I don't see any real remorse. She apologized to some of our friends about what happened saying she was a horrible person but never said anything to me.

I couldn't take her back and she knows it. I won't live with that sh*t.


----------



## murphy5

you just chose poorly, due to insufficient or misleading data you had at the time.

Maybe you learn to be more skeptical in the future? Really see if actions back up words, even in the small stuff? 

Don't be 2nd guessing yourself though, you are not an isolated case!


----------



## warlock07

How did her family react ?

maybe you should tell her on how much you know...Maybe so that she can stop deluding her herself on how much you know.

Are you sure that she dopes not bring the OM around the kids ?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

michzz said:


> Stay the course until the divorce is granted.
> 
> If you piss her off the separation agreement will not carry over to your advantage all the way through.
> 
> Vent here or to a loyal friend or two, none with links to your soon to be ex wife.
> 
> The answer to why she cheated and *how could you pick such an awful woman as a wife*?
> 
> You'll never really get those answers.


on bolded part of the question, it is because some of the very worst people on the planet can 'mimic' all sorts of nice qualities and emotions. In fact they can be so convincing that they truly feel these things that they may even seem to be _exceptionally_ warm,_ exceptionally_ giving, _exceptionally_ loving etc...

marry a person like this and on your wedding day you might say something like "i'm so lucky to have married this beautiful, intelligent, sexual, loving woman..." 
But ultimately you discover that she is garbage, that she is not really human but can imitate one really well. But she cares deeply about what other people think of her. That's her Achilles heal, the key to her destruction, the key to how you can destroy her if you so choose.....

For me, considering a person like this, how can hate not be a reasonable option? I think the only way to steer completely clear of the manipulative web of someone like this - if they stay in your life post D because of coparenting say - is to hate them. Hate will also help you detach from her IMO.......


----------



## OnTheRocks

I felt similarly about my ex. I thought I had picked a good one, and, stupidly, wasn't afraid to have kids with her. What I learned from my ordeal is that you can never truly know someone. 

I had already learned that blindly trusting partners is a mistake from a couple previous relationships. As soon as the sex dropped off and I got the ILYBNILWY, I immediately started digging. Ex was pretty good at covering her tracks, so it still took me a couple months to uncover the truth.


----------



## treyvion

OnTheRocks said:


> I felt similarly about my ex. I thought I had picked a good one, and, stupidly, wasn't afraid to have kids with her. What I learned from my ordeal is that you can never truly know someone.
> 
> I had already learned that blindly trusting partners is a mistake from a couple previous relationships. As soon as the sex dropped off and I got the ILYBNILWY, I immediately started digging. Ex was pretty good at covering her tracks, so it still took me a couple months to uncover the truth.


Was there a period of time before you heard "ILYBNILWY" that you knew she wasn't all the way in there with you?


----------



## tryingpatience

nuclearnightmare said:


> on bolded part of the question, it is because some of the very worst people on the planet can 'mimic' all sorts of nice qualities and emotions. In fact they can be so convincing that they truly feel these things that they may even seem to be _exceptionally_ warm,_ exceptionally_ giving, _exceptionally_ loving etc...
> 
> marry a person like this and on your wedding day you might say something like "i'm so lucky to have married this beautiful, intelligent, sexual, loving woman..."
> But ultimately you discover that she is garbage, that she is not really human but can imitate one really well. But she cares deeply about what other people think of her. That's her Achilles heal, the key to her destruction, the key to how you can destroy her if you so choose.....
> 
> For me, considering a person like this, how can hate not be a reasonable option? I think the only way to steer completely clear of the manipulative web of someone like this - if they stay in your life post D because of coparenting say - is to hate them. Hate will also help you detach from her IMO.......


I've realized through my ordeal that in order to really know someone you have to pay attention to how they handle stress and pressure. Her parents reacted the same way she did. They rug swept. They both avoid their problems and don't face them head on.

Hate for now is getting me through this and I have friends who remind me to get angry when I'm down. I hope eventually I can get to the point that some of you are, where I just won't give a sh*t about her.


----------



## OnTheRocks

treyvion said:


> Was there a period of time before you heard "ILYBNILWY" that you knew she wasn't all the way in there with you?


Yes, but "ILYBNILWY" was the red flag that pushed me into full 007 mode.


----------



## LongWalk

Very good that you know what is unacceptable to you. Sounds like she enjoyed the thrill of cheating and never imagined getting caught. Did the email record demonstrate cunning?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> Very good that you know what is unacceptable to you. Sounds like she enjoyed the thrill of cheating and never imagined getting caught. Did the email record demonstrate cunning?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


The emails showed excitement. Talking about the sex they had. She was also being bold. She contacted a lawyer, she was looking for a place of her own, dreaming about their life together, talking about taking trips and keeping secrets. There was a lot of fantasy about having a place and raising our kids with the OM. She mentioned him as the future step dad a few times.

I'm happy with the amount of exposure I did. I could have blasted an email to their entire mailing list but I figured that sending emails to strangers would look petty on my part. Like I was just an angry bitter man because I don't know what she's told others. I exposed to whom she was closest to and I walked away. It makes it clear that I don't care.

After reading a lot on TAM I think I made the best move. She knows that I'm a fixer and I don't easily give up on problems. By me going no contact and pushing the agreement through and soon the divorce she should get the message. Even if she doesn't, it's helped me get to a point where I feel I can move on. I still have my ups and downs but I'll keep going even if I have to fake it sometimes.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Have you evaluated if you have overcome the suffering and hurt?
Faking to be alright isn't going to help. Living well is the medicaction. To you for your hurt and to her, the sweet bitter revenge.
I realize you carry some amount of unfinished revenge....


----------



## tryingpatience

AngryandUsed said:


> Have you evaluated if you have overcome the suffering and hurt?
> Faking to be alright isn't going to help. Living well is the medicaction. To you for your hurt and to her, the sweet bitter revenge.
> I realize you carry some amount of unfinished revenge....



You're right. Even today when I dropped off the kids I felt pain. I know I'm not over the hurt yet. I still want my vengeance also. I'm trying to live my life again, but everyday is different. I'm still trying to find normal.


----------



## Suspecting2014

tryingpatience said:


> You're right. Even today when I dropped off the kids I felt pain. I know I'm not over the hurt yet. *I still want my vengeance also*. I'm trying to live my life again, but everyday is different. I'm still trying to find normal.


The opposite of love is not hate, is indifference.

Keep improving yourself and you will get your vengeance but in that moment you are not going to give a **** about it.

Keep moving and DON'T LOOK BACK


----------



## LongWalk

OM may have lost interest her now.

Did you quote her the passages about him becoming a step father to her?

Once the pain becomes less acute, you will be able to socialize with other women. 

How old is she now?

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## sinnister

tryingpatience said:


> Do women change after having babies? .


Yes.


Not to such drastic degrees but they ALL change. Most times for the better. Sometimes for the worse.


----------



## tryingpatience

LongWalk said:


> OM may have lost interest her now.
> 
> Did you quote her the passages about him becoming a step father to her?
> 
> Once the pain becomes less acute, you will be able to socialize with other women.
> 
> How old is she now?
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I don't know if the OM is still in the picture. A week after I confronted her I told her that she won't ever be able to replace me as their father. I think I said something like "No one can replace me". All she said was "I know that". She will be 35 soon.


----------



## LongWalk

She timed her infidelity with end of fertility

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## Mr Blunt

> don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry.


*
You lost her because she is weak in many areas and you had NOTHING to do with her choosing to betray you and her children for her own selfish ego.*

She was/is with the OM who does not give a shyt about her children so that tells you a lot. This relationship will not last and what she will have left is a much divastated woman that will probably try to rug-sweep the damaging reality. The reality is that she betrayed her children for a man that just wanted to use her and she stooped to a very low level of character.* She damaged her marriage, herself, and her children for her own selfish desires; that is a very damging reality.*








> Even today when I dropped off the kids I felt pain. I know I'm not over the hurt yet. *I still want my vengeance also*. I'm trying to live my life again, but everyday is different. I'm still trying to find normal


For your sake get rid of the vengeance. You will have to discipline yourself to do that.


If you take the right actions she will be like an old Junior High girlfriend that dumped you. In other words, in the years to come she will be almost nothing in your life and you have a lot of life left to live.


Try to concentrate on the future (the next 1-10- 50 years) not the next few weeks or months. You have your financial situation in order and it seems that your children are going to be close to you; those are two BIG ones for you. You will just have to take the hit form your ex-wife and concentrate on the other things in your life that will be a factor.

The first year will be the roughest but you can get better every month. Your wife is very pitiful and I hope that she can get better. She may even get better and want to make it up to you. I know right now she does not have a chance with you but in time she could improve and you will always have the children to be some sort of bond. *I would encourage you to do what you posted several posts ago, you stated * 
*



“Why waste my energy on her and the OM when I can be directing that energy towards myself and my kids.

Click to expand...

*’

*I think that is great advice!*


Also, your wife has severely damaged herself and even if she gets better she will always have same weaknesses that are permanent because of the betrayal. As time goes on you may not have the situation where she has improved and wants to comeback to you but in the event that she does, I would encourage you to look at her weakness that she will always have. In addition, you will never have the respect and admiration for her that you once had. I do not think that your wife is evil but *she sure is very weak and that is a huge NEGATIVE factor in life*


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

tryingpatience said:


> It's been a month since I exposed my stbxw's affair. An affair that had gone on with a co-worker for 2.5 years. WW and OP were planning on living a life together the whole time. They were looking for a place together and consulting a lawyer while I was in the dark.
> 
> I only became aware of the problem a year ago when she stopped saying "I love you" and sex stopped. We tried MC but she lied through the whole thing and nothing came out of it. After posting my problem here I installed keyloggers on her laptop and found out the truth. The truth set me free .
> 
> The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough. Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?
> 
> I thought I picked a good person. She spoke about how important family was. She had a good profession as a teacher. She was never one to lie, until our marriage. We improved as a couple, we communicated more and were best friends. Is the lesson learned her that people change and we just have to accept that? Do women change after having babies? The whole time I thought that was what was happening. She was going through some midlife change.
> 
> After some reflection I admit that I did put her on a pedestal at times but I also did complain when I wasn't happy. I fought for my marriage always. I am a beta / alpha mix. I've always been an active person and do alpha things i.e. martial arts, hanging out with the boys etc. I don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry. I also play with my kids and love putting them to bed.
> 
> So what are your thoughts on this? I'm continuing my journey on this new path and would appreciate your comments.


You should have learned that a woman views "right" as what makes her FEEL. 

It doesnt matter if it disobeys the convention of marriage. It doesnt matter if its sinfull in the eyes of a God or immoral in the eyes of a man.

To make a woman feel "right" with you, you must make her FEEL.

In order to make a woman feel, you must revel in your interpretation of manhood. You must be a god amongst those who surround you- not in that youre better than those around you, but beyond their condemnation or oppression. You must set her free from prude stereotypes and allow her to FEEL sexually and mentally confident as a woman... in the arms of a man who accepts her, accepts himself, and who masters through means within his control the environment around him. A woman is happiest when she feels safe in being herself, when she is around a man who both celebrates and challenges her sexuality, and when the man maintains a mastery over everything in his midst- including her.

A woman is attracted to and FEELS for a man confident in who he is. Confidence is an implicit declaration of capacity to effect positive change in one's environment.

Your wife fell for her coworker for a simple reason: she viewed her coworker as more capable of effecting positive change in her environment. This is common in work scenarios- work is a social construct where members are ranked implicitly according to their ability to effect the mission of the company. Since work is a significant portion (perhaps the most significant time wise) of the social sphere of conscious life, your wife developed an attraction for a man prominent in that social sphere.

Your course of action? I cant tell you exactly because I am not you. But I can tell you that you must both challenge yourself to become the best version of yourself as well as be confident in the man you are. Hit the gym, hit the bar with your friends, or if walt whitman is more your style "sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world".

Only in this way will a woman's attraction be your prize, at the price of you directing half (or more) of this capacity to her well-being. Good luck..


----------



## tryingpatience

That's why I keep coming back here and venting. You guys and gals are always able to put it back into perspective again. Mr Blunt, I keep getting pulled back into the now when I should be looking to the future like you've said.

Her weakness is so disappointing.

OptomisticPessimist, I see and understand exactly what you are saying. I feel though that I was at a big disadvantage since as you mentioned work is a large part of our lives. She never saw me kick ass where I worked and how I handled myself in the office where I'm respected.

Looking back I realized that she stopped caring and noticing the things I did for her. Her attention was always elsewhere. Now I know it was on the OM. We would fight about that once in a while and she would say that her mind was on the kids.


----------



## poida

bandit.45 said:


> Another teacher....
> 
> 
> Tsk tsk.


Hey.... my wife was a teacher too!

What the heck is with that?


----------



## poida

OptimisticPessimist said:


> You should have learned that a woman views "right" as what makes her FEEL.
> 
> It doesnt matter if it disobeys the convention of marriage. It doesnt matter if its sinfull in the eyes of a God or immoral in the eyes of a man.
> 
> To make a woman feel "right" with you, you must make her FEEL.
> 
> In order to make a woman feel, you must revel in your interpretation of manhood. You must be a god amongst those who surround you- not in that youre better than those around you, but beyond their condemnation or oppression. You must set her free from prude stereotypes and allow her to FEEL sexually and mentally confident as a woman... in the arms of a man who accepts her, accepts himself, and who masters through means within his control the environment around him. A woman is happiest when she feels safe in being herself, when she is around a man who both celebrates and challenges her sexuality, and when the man maintains a mastery over everything in his midst- including her.
> 
> A woman is attracted to and FEELS for a man confident in who he is. Confidence is an implicit declaration of capacity to effect positive change in one's environment.
> 
> Your wife fell for her coworker for a simple reason: she viewed her coworker as more capable of effecting positive change in her environment. This is common in work scenarios- work is a social construct where members are ranked implicitly according to their ability to effect the mission of the company. Since work is a significant portion (perhaps the most significant time wise) of the social sphere of conscious life, your wife developed an attraction for a man prominent in that social sphere.
> 
> Your course of action? I cant tell you exactly because I am not you. But I can tell you that you must both challenge yourself to become the best version of yourself as well as be confident in the man you are. Hit the gym, hit the bar with your friends, or if walt whitman is more your style "sound my barbaric yawp over the roofs of the world".
> 
> Only in this way will a woman's attraction be your prize, at the price of you directing half (or more) of this capacity to her well-being. Good luck..


Ha... and I used to scoff at OptPes's posts thinking they were a bit over the top and a bit extreme. I used to see them as daunting, that I would be unable to be those things and meet the needs of a woman. But of course he is right......

The trick is not to think of it as meeting the needs of a woman, but being the best we can be and being somewhat impartial to whether your woman thinks you are a god or not... 

This is where there is an element of truth in the old "treat em mean, keep em keen" mantra. We don't have to be mean, but it illustrates the impartiality required to keep focus on yourself.

You know, for me, it took a lot of PC before I realised what my weakness was, and how it affected my marriage. Yes she was a cheating b*tch, but I have had to accept there was a loss of attraction because of the way I pandered to my wife.

If you still feel confused about what your contribution was to the failure of the marriage I can only suggest a LOT more PC. There is no need to ask your wife or anyone else. Dig deep within yourself and you will find the answers.


----------



## tryingpatience

poida said:


> Ha... and I used to scoff at OptPes's posts thinking they were a bit over the top and a bit extreme. I used to see them as daunting, that I would be unable to be those things and meet the needs of a woman. But of course he is right......
> 
> The trick is not to think of it as meeting the needs of a woman, but being the best we can be and being somewhat impartial to whether your woman thinks you are a god or not...
> 
> This is where there is an element of truth in the old "treat em mean, keep em keen" mantra. We don't have to be mean, but it illustrates the impartiality required to keep focus on yourself.
> 
> You know, for me, it took a lot of PC before I realised what my weakness was, and how it affected my marriage. Yes she was a cheating b*tch, but I have had to accept there was a loss of attraction because of the way I pandered to my wife.
> 
> If you still feel confused about what your contribution was to the failure of the marriage I can only suggest a LOT more PC. There is no need to ask your wife or anyone else. Dig deep within yourself and you will find the answers.


I believe I did too much for her. Even though I kept doing my own things, something she complained about to my friends, I know that wasn't the reason, that was her cheating justification. She saw me as dependable and fair and I think that's what killed the attraction.


----------



## poida

tryingpatience said:


> I believe I did too much for her. Even though I kept doing my own things, something she complained about to my friends, I know that wasn't the reason, that was her cheating justification. She saw me as dependable and fair and I think that's what killed the attraction.


Not necessarily. You can DO things for your wife and not lose attraction. In fact it can form a very important part of her attraction for you.

I actually suspect it is the WAY in which you do these things, the conversations around them, the seeking for approval. Not the actual ACT of doing things. 

I can tell you from experience that it is the SEEKING OF APPROVAL when " doing things" that KILLS attraction.

It tells her that not only are you going to do things for her, but you are also going to BEG for her attention. Very submissive behaviour.

And submissive behaviour dries up the ladies like nothing else...


----------



## tryingpatience

poida said:


> Not necessarily. You can DO things for your wife and not lose attraction. In fact it can form a very important part of her attraction for you.
> 
> I actually suspect it is the WAY in which you do these things, the conversations around them, the seeking for approval. Not the actual ACT of doing things.
> 
> I can tell you from experience that it is the SEEKING OF APPROVAL when " doing things" that KILLS attraction.
> 
> It tells her that not only are you going to do things for her, but you are also going to BEG for her attention. Very submissive behaviour.
> 
> And submissive behaviour dries up the ladies like nothing else...


Its possible. I am trying to reflect on how I was. I did show weakness with the stress of my job. I complained a lot and was unhappy for a while. Something I never did early in our relationship. I would keep the crap to myself usually. That changed when I got comfortable I guess.


----------



## poida

tryingpatience said:


> Its possible. I am trying to reflect on how I was. I did show weakness with the stress of my job. I complained a lot and was unhappy for a while. Something I never did early in our relationship. I would keep the crap to myself usually. That changed when I got comfortable I guess.


I did this and this was a major criticism from my wife. How badly it affects the relationship depends on the woman. If your wife is independent, then it might not be such a big issue. If she is highly dependent on you as a role model (daddy issues) as with my WW< then it has a huge affect.

I still think complaining about work pales in comparison to submissive and approval seeking behaviour. Which puts you right back into little kid status. What woman would be attracted to a little kid.

Thank F I finally understand a lot of this sh*t. My life is going to be so much easier in the future.


----------



## ReidWright

tryingpatience said:


> Its possible. I am trying to reflect on how I was. I did show weakness with the stress of my job. I complained a lot and was unhappy for a while. Something I never did early in our relationship. I would keep the crap to myself usually. That changed when I got comfortable I guess.


yeah, and if you didn't tell her your problems, she would have thought you were cold, standoff-ish, not willing to share your feelings, too reserved, etc. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't with some people. I bet she would always find an excuse to cheat.

if you can't share your real thoughts and feelings with your wife, with who can you? what's the point of a marriage if you have to act like someone else 24/7? should you have to pretend to be happy if you're not? bottle it up?


----------



## tryingpatience

ReidWright said:


> yeah, and if you didn't tell her your problems, she would have thought you were cold, standoff-ish, not willing to share your feelings, too reserved, etc. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't with some people. I bet she would always find an excuse to cheat.
> 
> if you can't share your real thoughts and feelings with your wife, with who can you? what's the point of a marriage if you have to act like someone else 24/7? should you have to pretend to be happy if you're not? bottle it up?


It's funny you should say that because there was a point in our relationship where she asked me to tell her more about what was going on with me. I guess I shared way too much and it was a turn off for her. It's a fine balance. But with her I'll never really know. She doesn't want to go there and she's fine sweeping it all away.


----------



## tryingpatience

Received a good offer on the house. Closing is in a months time. 

Applied for divorce. Now just have to get someone to server her the papers.

Feeling really down right now.


----------



## happyman64

Glad you got a good offer.

Just have her served. Or do it yourself.

Start focusing more on the future. It will help keep you busy and you will have less downtime.

Life will get good again once this mess is behind you.


----------



## OptimisticPessimist

tryingpatience said:


> OptomisticPessimist, I see and understand exactly what you are saying. I feel though that I was at a big disadvantage since as you mentioned work is a large part of our lives. She never saw me kick ass where I worked and how I handled myself in the office where I'm respected.


Apologies for missing this.

Yeah man, its tough. This is part of the reason people around here suggest "dating" your wife, etc. You need to create opportunities to demonstrate your mastery of life (and to revel in feminine mastery your woman has); life gets involved and stressful, you get distracted, etc- and then you end up here 



tryingpatience said:


> Received a good offer on the house. Closing is in a months time.
> 
> Applied for divorce. Now just have to get someone to server her the papers.
> 
> Feeling really down right now.


A dream has ended. A course of action you set out on with your wife has crashed and now burns- you will second guess yourself and doubt your value. You will hurt. 

But I can tell you will do okay in the long run man- you are moving forward.


----------



## tryingpatience

happyman64 said:


> A dream has ended. A course of action you set out on with your wife has crashed and now burns- you will second guess yourself and doubt your value. You will hurt.
> 
> But I can tell you will do okay in the long run man- you are moving forward.


Every so often I fall back to second guessing and doubting myself. I hate that I do that, but it's part of the process everyone says.

For those of you with kids how do you deal with seeing your ex. I still find her attractive and I even sometimes have dreams of having sex with her. It messes me up. When that happens I try to remember the sh*t she did.

In IC I've been told that the less I see her the better. Sort of hard when the kids are being exchanged every few days.


----------



## Ripper

Are you receptive to dating again? A new person in your life usually makes your ex a distant memory.


----------



## tryingpatience

Ripper said:


> Are you receptive to dating again? A new person in your life usually makes your ex a distant memory.


I'm not sure, but I'd like to try. Maybe I'll try an online dating site or app, put up a profile and see what happens.


----------



## RWB

bandit.45 said:


> Another teacher....
> 
> Tsk tsk.


Yep.... another teacher. My fww was a teacher. At one point 4 the 5 1st grade teachers at my wife's school were cheaters.

*Lesson.... Trust No One.*


----------



## murphy5

what would I think I learned in your place? I would try really hard to NOT let this bad experience taint my feelings about future experiences. I would try to be more communicative in the future, because there probably were some signs you missed. And I would get my mental house in order before jumping on the romance roller coaster again.

that is all


----------



## tryingpatience

RWB said:


> Yep.... another teacher. My fww was a teacher. At one point 4 the 5 1st grade teachers at my wife's school were cheaters.
> 
> *Lesson.... Trust No One.*





murphy5 said:


> what would I think I learned in your place? I would try really hard to NOT let this bad experience taint my feelings about future experiences. I would try to be more communicative in the future, because there probably were some signs you missed. And I would get my mental house in order before jumping on the romance roller coaster again.
> 
> that is all


Trying not to let this taint me. Something tells me that I won't trust teachers again though. I know I could have communicated more but looking back I realized I ignored some of the signs I saw because I trusted my wife at the time.


----------



## the guy

tryingpatience said:


> Trying not to let this taint me. Something tells me that I won't trust teachers again though. I know I could have communicated more but looking back I realized I ignored some of the signs I saw because I trusted my wife at the time.


Didn't we all!


----------



## RWB

tryingpatience said:


> Trying not to let this taint me. Something tells me that I won't trust teachers again though. I know I could have communicated more but looking back I realized I ignored some of the signs I saw because I trusted my wife at the time.


TP,

My own wife admitted to me... that teachers are "touchy feely" types. She admitted that when her principal (AP) started to get close she was infatuated with his interest. "He understood her". He was nothing more than a player that "preyed" on teachers and the hard work that "no one else understood". 

A chance happening... not hardly. After DD, I could care less who I embarrassed or consequences. At least a dozen principles were having or had affairs in our county system that I personally knew. 

Sick.


----------



## larry.gray

RWB said:


> Yep.... another teacher. My fww was a teacher. At one point 4 the 5 1st grade teachers at my wife's school were cheaters.
> 
> *Lesson.... Trust No One.*


I am a school board chair for a small school. Our administrator one day took me aside and told me he wanted to talk. I knew he was divorced, and went through a walk away wife. What I didn't know was that his wife was a teacher and was cheating on him, with another teacher at the school. (This was a different building than he was in.) She had a year exit affair before bailing.

What happened to trigger this was the PTO president was banging another parent. They were caught by several other parents down a side road near the school. This triggered him pretty bad, and he needed somebody to vent to. He said he dang well hoped he didn't have to interact with either because he wouldn't be able to contain his anger.

I can't imagine how nuclear he'd go on one of the staff members if he found out there was infidelity at the school among them. I hear many principals turn a blind eye. I know one that sure as hell wouldn't.


----------



## RWB

larry.gray said:


> I am a school board chair for a small school. Our administrator one day took me aside and told me he wanted to talk. I knew he was divorced, and went through a walk away wife. What I didn't know was that his wife was a teacher and was cheating on him, with another teacher at the school. (This was a different building than he was in.) She had a year exit affair before bailing.


Larry,

I knew it was going on in the schools, but until it happens to you personally... I guess you just "look it off". The Principal that my wife had an affair with was sleeping with at least 2 other teachers at the same school. Worse... she even talked with them about it.

You would think that most Public School Systems would have a Zero Tolerance for Admin Bosses sleeping with married faculty. Not so... they just cover it up with transfers and re-assignments, or early retirement incentives.


----------



## bandit.45

RWB said:


> TP,
> 
> My own wife admitted to me... that teachers are "touchy feely" types. She admitted that when her principal (AP) started to get close she was infatuated with his interest. "He understood her". He was nothing more than a player that "preyed" on teachers and the hard work that "no one else understood".
> 
> A chance happening... not hardly. After DD, I could care less who I embarrassed or consequences. At least a dozen principles were having or had affairs in our county system that I personally knew.
> 
> Sick.


You and I didn't have teachers like this growing up. I swear most of my middle-school teachers had to have worked the ovens at Auschwitz. Meaner than rattlesnakes. 

But yeah, combine touchy feely types, predatory principals and a high stress, high intensity environment, and you can see how teachers are ripe for affairs.


----------



## bandit.45

RWB said:


> Larry,
> 
> I knew it was going on in the schools, but until it happens to you personally... I guess you just "look it off". The Principal that my wife had an affair with was sleeping with at least 2 other teachers at the same school. Worse... she even talked with them about it.
> 
> 
> WTF?!!!  GROSS!
> 
> You would think that most Public School Systems would have a Zero Tolerance for Admin Bosses sleeping with married faculty. Not so... they just cover it up with transfers and re-assignments, or early retirement incentives.


We had a male high school teacher when I was a teenager who was sleeping around with the wife of a local doctor. She left her husband to shack up with this stellar human being, and less than a year after she divorced her husband and she married this guy, the teacher was murdered during a trip to Mexico. 

She of course tried to get her exH to take her back, but by that time he was dating a twenty-two year old bank clerk, knocked her up and married her and they have been happily married now for twenty five years or so.


----------



## Faeleaf

tryingpatience said:


> It's been a month since I exposed my stbxw's affair. An affair that had gone on with a co-worker for 2.5 years. WW and OP were planning on living a life together the whole time. They were looking for a place together and consulting a lawyer while I was in the dark.
> 
> I only became aware of the problem a year ago when she stopped saying "I love you" and sex stopped. We tried MC but she lied through the whole thing and nothing came out of it. After posting my problem here I installed keyloggers on her laptop and found out the truth. The truth set me free .
> 
> The question is what should I have learned from my experience? I trusted my wife and loved her. She manipulated me into thinking that I wasn't doing enough, that she didn't have enough freedom or control in her life, that I wasn't there for her enough. Should I not be as trusting and always guard my self?
> 
> I thought I picked a good person. She spoke about how important family was. She had a good profession as a teacher. She was never one to lie, until our marriage. We improved as a couple, we communicated more and were best friends. Is the lesson learned her that people change and we just have to accept that? Do women change after having babies? The whole time I thought that was what was happening. She was going through some midlife change.
> 
> After some reflection I admit that I did put her on a pedestal at times but I also did complain when I wasn't happy. I fought for my marriage always. I am a beta / alpha mix. I've always been an active person and do alpha things i.e. martial arts, hanging out with the boys etc. I don't think I lost her by being too beta and I doubt that I lost her by not doing the laundry. I also play with my kids and love putting them to bed.
> 
> So what are your thoughts on this? I'm continuing my journey on this new path and would appreciate your comments.


I am almost certain there are lessons to be learned from your experience than can't be summed up by, "I was great and loving and trusting, but she was evil and unfaithful and a liar. I guess I need to be more careful who I pick next time."

Maybe all those things are true, but that doesn't mean your investigation is over. If you ask this question and get back nothing but reassuring replies that soothe your self-doubts, I'd be a little wary of the people giving you advice. I'd also be very wary of writing off any criticism your wife leveled at you as "manipulation." If she said she wasn't happy, then she wasn't happy. You may have played a real part in that, a part that you will continue to play in future relationships, if it isn't identified and addressed.

I'm not excusing infidelity. It was wrong, and almost certainly the wrong solution to whatever problem the marriage had. 

And I don't have a balance to weigh your faults against hers to see who comes out ahead. Nor does it matter. Your marriage is over. The only faults you are taking away with you now are the ones inside you, not inside her. It is a BRAVE and DIFFICULT thing to do, to shine that light at yourself and be willing to accept the truth you see. Most people can't do it.

I'm impressed that you started the thread and asked the question. We may not have the answers you seek (we don't know you), but don't let that be the end of your journey of self-discovery.


----------



## larry.gray

RWB said:


> I knew it was going on in the schools, but until it happens to you personally... I guess you just "look it off". The Principal that my wife had an affair with was sleeping with at least 2 other teachers at the same school. Worse... she even talked with them about it.


I get that. 20 years ago I would have thought "eh, it's between them." Now that I'm in mid life, I see what the "mid life crisis" cheating does to people. While my marriage hasn't suffered directly, I see the destruction left in the wake. Too much in my family and friends to turn a blind eye now.



RWB said:


> You would think that most Public School Systems would have a Zero Tolerance for Admin Bosses sleeping with married faculty. Not so... they just cover it up with transfers and re-assignments, or early retirement incentives.


This is VERY stupid. Any employee can sue over this. All they have to look is for some sort of disparity of treatment - even a perceived disparity - and there is a basis for a sexual harassment suit. The claim is that it makes some of the women wonder if they need to sleep with the boss too to get ahead. They will often settle for a whole pile of $$$ to make it go away.

I guess it's a sign of a lack of accountability? Who cares, it's not their money. It comes from the vast public trough anyway.


----------



## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> You and I didn't have teachers like this growing up. I swear most of my middle-school teachers had to have worked the ovens at Auschwitz. Meaner than rattlesnakes.
> 
> But yeah, combine touchy feely types, predatory principals and a high stress, high intensity environment, and you can see how teachers are ripe for affairs.


Not my experience. I remember in 3rd grade when a classmates parents broke up. At the time I had no idea the why behind it. One of my classmates had to ride the bus with anything she wanted to take from mom's to dad's or back. Mom worked at the school, and when the two girls got to school the stuff went into mom's car. 

As time went on we got more and more of the story. Dad was vice principal at the JR high and the OW was at the middle school as a teacher. When mom caught on she went apesh!t and ended up with a 250 foot RO against the OW and cheating husband.


----------



## larry.gray

bandit.45 said:


> We had a male high school teacher when I was a teenager who was sleeping around with the wife of a local doctor. She left her husband to shack up with this stellar human being, and less than a year after she divorced her husband and she married this guy, the teacher was murdered during a trip to Mexico.
> 
> She of course tried to get her exH to take her back, but by that time he was dating a twenty-two year old bank clerk, knocked her up and married her and they have been happily married now for twenty five years or so.


Doctor to teacher - yeah, there were some smarts with that one :rofl:


----------



## RWB

bandit.45 said:


> We had a male high school teacher when I was a teenager who was sleeping around with the wife of a local doctor. She left her husband to shack up with this stellar human being, and less than a year after she divorced her husband and she married this guy, the teacher was murdered during a trip to Mexico.
> .



A quick Google and 1st hit shows...

A survey of the 1.9 million accounts on ******************, a dating site for people looking to cheat on their spouses, rounds up the most common occupations among the would-be infidelitous: 

For Women:
1. *Teachers *
2. Stay-at-home Moms
3. *Nurses* 
4. Administrative Assistants
5. Real Estate Agents 

After seeing from the "other side" I would say * Spot On*. 

Here the dirty little secret... The teachers in a school (system) know who is cheating. They see the looks, they see the after school "chats", the gestures made in plain view.

After DD I asked my wife what's up with all the female teachers running around on their husbands? It's like they all become de-sensitized to the risk. Easy Prey for the males?


----------



## Thinkitthrough

Must be something about elementary teachers. I have been a 
high school teacher for almost 30 years. In that time there was one affair between teachers, though they taught at different schools. Two male teachers found their wives cheating, one wife was a bank manager and her lover was in the same amateur theater company. The other wife was in publishing and her husband found that she was sleeping her way up the ladder. 
Teaching, given the time it takes to be good at it, the work loads and the stress I know teaching is hell on marriages.
Now teachers can be cheap, we complain a lot over little things and given the way schools are funded these days (even Canadian Schools) we feel hard done by, but I haven't cheated and don't know any one who has. In fact I've never met a teacher I would cheat with. The consequences for affair would be loss of pension and loss of job, for both partners.


----------



## tryingpatience

bandit.45 said:


> You and I didn't have teachers like this growing up. I swear most of my middle-school teachers had to have worked the ovens at Auschwitz. Meaner than rattlesnakes.
> 
> But yeah, combine touchy feely types, predatory principals and a high stress, high intensity environment, and you can see how teachers are ripe for affairs.


I see how stressful a teachers job can be just from listening to their stories. I also have friends who are teachers. I still think it's such a bs excuse to fall victim to an affair. For my stbxw the email evidence showed pure fantasy and flattery between the two. IMO she was dealing with the stress in her life by escaping and then they stupidly thought they're love was something special for the ages. Only you understand me bullsh*t, love connection.

One thing I got out of IC was that many other normal people / couples choose other paths in solving marital problems, they walk away, they complain, they go to marriage counselling. It's helped me have a little more faith in others.




Faeleaf said:


> Maybe all those things are true, but that doesn't mean your investigation is over. If you ask this question and get back nothing but reassuring replies that soothe your self-doubts, I'd be a little wary of the people giving you advice. I'd also be very wary of writing off any criticism your wife leveled at you as "manipulation." If she said she wasn't happy, then she wasn't happy. You may have played a real part in that, a part that you will continue to play in future relationships, if it isn't identified and addressed.
> 
> I'm not excusing infidelity. It was wrong, and almost certainly the wrong solution to whatever problem the marriage had.


I believe most days that this was on her. I wasn't perfect but I knew what was in my heart. My needs we're not always met but I never cheated. When she told me she was unhappy she was already out of the marriage and fu*kin the OM. I don't know anymore if any of the complaints were real or gas lighting because of how long she has had something for the OM. I should have not accepted her excuses the first time I was suspicious. The experience has made me open up my eyes to her true character and her flaws. Something I was blind to before. So that's something I'm taking into my next relationship.


----------



## RWB

Faeleaf said:


> Maybe all those things are true... If you ask this question and get back nothing but reassuring replies that soothe your self-doubts, I'd be a little wary of the people giving you advice. I'd also be very wary of writing off any criticism your wife leveled at you as "manipulation."* If she said she wasn't happy, then she wasn't happy. *You may have played a real part in that.





tryingpatience said:


> I believe most days that this was on her. I wasn't perfect but I knew what was in my heart. My needs we're not always met but I never cheated. *When she told me she was unhappy she was already out of the marriage and fu*kin the OM.* I don't know anymore if any of the complaints were real or gas lighting because of how long she has had something for the OM. * I should have not accepted her excuses the first time I was suspicious. * The experience has made me open up my eyes to her true character and her flaws. Something I was blind to before. So that's something I'm taking into my next relationship.


Faeleaf, TP,

Some valid points and really what good does it do to assign blame levels since_ "Elvis has left the building". _
But...

After years of C both IC and MC with my fww there are some hard cold truths when we look back.

1) You are not *(never)* responsible for the happiness of your spouse. Disagree? look it up and read for a few days before you dismiss.

2) Once someone has crossed the "can't go back" line into an affair and proceeds forward... The Train Wreck is inevitable, carved in stone. Furthermore, the state, _"Happiness", _of the marriage can never again be accessed with any Normal form of understanding. The affair, clouds, trumps, taints, all senses and nothing, nothing can be "understood" from a real or justifiable standpoint. And... this transformation doesn't just stop if the affair stops and a real R takes place. The betrayal leave scars that never heal for both parties.

3) Cheating was/is/will-be never justified.


----------



## tryingpatience

RWB said:


> Faeleaf, TP,
> 
> Some valid points and really what good does it do to assign blame levels since_ "Elvis has left the building". _
> But...
> 
> After years of C both IC and MC with my fww there are some hard cold truths when we look back.
> 
> 1) You are not *(never)* responsible for the happiness of your spouse. Disagree? look it up and read for a few days before you dismiss.
> 
> 2) Once someone has crossed the "can't go back" line into an affair and proceeds forward... The Train Wreck is inevitable, carved in stone. Furthermore, the state, _"Happiness", _of the marriage can never again be accessed with any Normal form of understanding. The affair, clouds, trumps, taints, all senses and nothing, nothing can be "understood" from a real or justifiable standpoint. And... this transformation doesn't just stop if the affair stops and a real R takes place. The betrayal leave scars that never heal for both parties.
> 
> 3) Cheating was/is/will-be never justified.


1 - I believe this to a point. Where that point is, I'm not sure yet. Done some reading also. But I believe that this is what is meant by love as a choice. At some point you choose to appreciate what you have and you actively try to make it better to keep that in love feeling. You choose to be happy or you look for something else. Both people need to choose to be happy to make it work.

Completely agree on 2 & 3.


----------



## RWB

Yeah, I agree with you #1, "to a point". I'm a fixer by nature. What I didn't understand was her.

Strange, married 25 years when she starts cheating and I really never knew her. The vanity, the selfishness, the fear, the need to always be the prettiest girl in the room, the need to be re-assured. 

It was always there, she kept it private, in the little box in the back of her mind. Always there though. 

That *(NEVER)* statement is more for my sanity than anything else.


----------



## m0nk

Thinkitthrough said:


> Must be something about elementary teachers. I have been a
> high school teacher for almost 30 years. In that time there was one affair between teachers, though they taught at different schools. Two male teachers found their wives cheating, one wife was a bank manager and her lover was in the same amateur theater company. The other wife was in publishing and her husband found that she was sleeping her way up the ladder.
> Teaching, given the time it takes to be good at it, the work loads and the stress I know teaching is hell on marriages.
> Now teachers can be cheap, we complain a lot over little things and given the way schools are funded these days (even Canadian Schools) we feel hard done by, but I haven't cheated and don't know any one who has. In fact I've never met a teacher I would cheat with. The consequences for affair would be loss of pension and loss of job, for both partners.


+1. As a middle school teacher I have to agree. Yeah there are some unsavory people and flawed people teaching our youth...but none that I've known or even heard of have been cheating...in fact, some of us have been cheated on (my exh was in the Navy, of all places)...not trying to be inflammatory. Just saying. Not all of us are scumbags..many of us want to see society get better! Namaste.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## m0nk

FWIW I am truly sorry this happened to you and hope for healing soon...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tryingpatience

With the NC I've been able to see many of the things that were lacking in our relationship. Many of my needs were not being met. You'd think I'd be happy with this realization and I'd be excited about finding someone who could treat me right. But I'm not at all excited right now.

All I keep thinking is why the hell couldn't she be that for me. I also get down and fuc*in angry thinking that she'll be better for the OM. She did sh*t for him she never did for me. Are WS able to start over again from a clean slate that easily?


----------



## Ripper

tryingpatience said:


> I also get down and fuc*in angry thinking that she'll be better for the OM. She did sh*t for him she never did for me.


She might be his perfect little cupcake forever, but odds and the statistics show that it will likely collapse eventually. Don't get wrapped up in this, its no good. Learn from it and only accept the best from your next partner. 



tryingpatience said:


> Are WS able to start over again from a clean slate that easily?


Yep. Don't try to understand their logic or reasoning. No halfway decent person can.


----------



## tryingpatience

It's been a while since I last wrote an update. I'm at the end of a week long trip to the cottage with my family and the kids. Today is my sons birthday and we had some facetime with the ex. After the kids said goodbye, I could see the ex start to cry as I disconnected the video chat. I left it alone and went on with my business.
Before we left on vacation I went to the house to pick up a few things. She was at the house which was unexpected, the house closing is at the end of the month. I could tell that she had just finished crying but she came down to talk business about what furniture I wanted to keep. I told her we could talk about it when I returned. For a moment I felt sorry for her. I wanted to do something but fought the urge and left.
My good friend reminded me that she shed no tears for me when I confronted her. That she's only feeling sorry for herself now. That's what I believe. The NC is changing me subtly everyday. I read here that the one who cares less has all the power. I refuse to be a chump so I'm trying to get to the 'I don't give a crap' state.
On another note, I got a new job that pays more and is more interesting and it starts in September. I plan to take a week for myself before i start to travel somewhere on the west coast.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## bandit.45

That's choice. Her crying now, after you have detached and moved on. Typical. 

Where was the crying when she strung you along through MC and false R?


----------



## happyman64

TryingPatience

Glad you had a good break with the kids.



> I also get down and fuc*in angry thinking that she'll be better for the OM. She did sh*t for him she never did for me.


Remember that it all an act. Your STBXW is broken. She will not be better for anyone else including herself.

just the way her affair was longterm so will be her decline.

You'll see.

And listen to your friend. He/She is right.

Keep focusing on you. And your kids.

HM


----------



## Healer

Squeakr said:


> You have learned what you boundaries are what you are willing to accept and to accept and now you are taking your life back.
> 
> Incidentally alpha is a state of your demeanor (such as a take charge manner and power/ controlling mental state) and not just a representation of the culmination of your actions. Performing martial arts and hanging out with the boys are not necessarily alpha actions (as not everyone in that group is a take charge alphas) and don't make one an alpha just by doing them, just like doing the laundry doesn't make one a beta. It is how you conduct yourself. You can be a beta and still enjoy and participate in the the activities that you have listed and alphas need clean clothes and do their own laundry as well.


And alphas and betas both get cheated on.


----------



## Healer

bandit.45 said:


> Don't expect her to come back, but be prepared if she does. You need to have a game plan. Some waywards come back and some don't. Depends on how prideful and selfish they are.
> 
> Even if she does come back, and she asks for reconciliation, SHE is the one who needs to do most of the heavy lifting. She would have to be completely contrite and remorseful, completely transparent and completely committed to helping you heal from her betrayal. Most waywards are not willing to do the hard work. They just want the betrayed spouse to rug sweep and get over it.


Good grief, why would anyone take her back, under ANY circumstances?? She's a brutal person.


----------



## tryingpatience

happyman64 said:


> TryingPatience
> 
> Glad you had a good break with the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I also get down and fuc*in angry thinking that she'll be better for the OM. She did sh*t for him she never did for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember that it all an act. Your STBXW is broken. She will not be better for anyone else including herself.
> 
> just the way her affair was longterm so will be her decline.
> 
> You'll see.
> 
> And listen to your friend. He/She is right.
> 
> Keep focusing on you. And your kids.
> 
> HM
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if it's an act but I don't assume anything anymore. She is a very emotional person. Something that I realize about her now is that everytime we fought the argument always shifted to become about her and how bad she would feel about herself. 
It may not be an act but I believe she is broken right now. Sadly broken. No longer able to compartmentalize? My friend was a she who gave me that advice.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## tryingpatience

How do I get over these feelings of regret? Just when I thought that I was getting better. Here they are again after my vacation. 
When she told me it was an EA I asked her if she slept with him she denied a number of times and I believed her thinking our marriage could be fixed. She was already sleeping with him however. She thanked me for not kicking her out of the house even though I was furious. 
I tried doing more when I should have kicked her out and confronted everyone. But all I did was call the guy to see if something was going on. I even let her go on the overnight trip with her students knowing the OM was going! 
I could have busted it up and maybe our marriage could have stood a chance and that's been hard for me to accept. I could have stopped it from getting worse. It could have been true R Instead of the fake one I went through.
Why would I want to be with a cheater? If I killed the affair early I could have had a remorseful cheater. I would take that remorseful cheater to keep my family together. To give my kids a family. I worry about how they will grow up.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## warlock07

Is she still with this guy ?


----------



## tryingpatience

warlock07 said:


> Is she still with this guy ?


I don't know. I can only guess. The person I knew would rug sweep. She's probably hoping things die down and she can start all over again. She seems to be trying to rebuild. I'm getting no fight from her what so ever. I don't know what she's doing now.


----------



## tryingpatience

My stbxw sent me an email saying she wanted to talk about "stuff". I replied asking her what she wanted to talk about. She said she wanted to apologize at the very least.
Not sure what to make of it and don't really want to meet her. Not sure if I can face her without losing it. But it could be a chance to air out everything. Don't know what to do. I want to give her sh*t but I don't think it will wake her up and give me satisfaction.
It could be something more because her friend was reaching out to my other friend and fishing for info. about what's going on. I don't think that's a coincidence.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Turin74

There was/is a guy here, whose stbx all of a sudden (after basically moving out to be with om) had a breakfast with him, all dressed up and looking warm and cordial. Only she had an earlier RO standing against him and didn't move to lift it. Obviously there is no RO here but having hopes down and guards up wouldn't hurt. Just my 0.2

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Suspecting2014

Turin74 said:


> There was/is a guy here, whose stbx all of a sudden (after basically moving out to be with om) had a breakfast with him, all dressed up and looking warm and cordial. Only she had an earlier RO standing against him and didn't move to lift it. Obviously there is no RO here but having hopes and guards up wouldn't hurt. Just my 0.2
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Is dadof2


----------



## Turin74

Yes, thanks. I just prefer not to explicitly quote people. 



Suspecting2014 said:


> Is dadof2


 _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## Suspecting2014

tryingpatience said:


> My stbxw sent me an email saying she wanted to talk about "stuff". I replied asking her what she wanted to talk about. She said she wanted to apologize at the very least.
> Not sure what to make of it and don't really want to meet her. Not sure if I can face her without losing it. But it could be a chance to air out everything. Don't know what to do. I want to give her sh*t but I don't think it will wake her up and give me satisfaction.
> It could be something more because her friend was reaching out to my other friend and fishing for info. about what's going on. I don't think that's a coincidence.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


IMO, if you think you can lose it then wont, you need to keep things civil for the kids.

Just email her, telling her this is a very kind gesture but at this moment you rather not to met. not further explanation!

Do you ever consider to try R with her? I am not saying that she may want it, but how do you feel about it at this very moment?

IMO she would like to met you bc:

She is feeling guilty and just wanna say sorry. (dont go, let her feel the guilt of her own actions)

The grass isn't greener and she is trying to keep Plan B available.
(dont go, you should not be plan b)

She is realizing she made a huge mistake (dont go, it is not your problem any more, and if she is wanna she must try harder that an email and meeting for coffee)


IMO tell her that you are not feeling like talking to her about this matter. 

Maybe you need to vent and tell her how horrible person she is but this may have repercussions over your kids.


----------



## LongWalk

If you listen to her without compromising yourself, it may be therapeutic. Let her talk. She may reveal more about herself that will reinforce your decision.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------



## tryingpatience

Suspecting2014 said:


> IMO she would like to met you bc:
> 
> She is feeling guilty and just wanna say sorry. (dont go, let her feel the guilt of her own actions)
> 
> The grass isn't greener and she is trying to keep Plan B available.
> (dont go, you should not be plan b)
> 
> She is realizing she made a huge mistake (dont go, it is not your problem any more, and if she is wanna she must try harder that an email and meeting for coffee)
> 
> 
> IMO tell her that you are not feeling like talking to her about this matter.
> 
> Maybe you need to vent and tell her how horrible person she is but this may have repercussions over your kids.





LongWalk said:


> If you listen to her without compromising yourself, it may therapeutic. Let her talk. She may reveal more about herself that will reinforce your decision.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


I was thinking about both these things this morning and I thought I was going to have a panic attack, I started shaking, seriously. I know dadof2 and his situation has a lot of similarities and I've followed his thread.

I don't need an apology and if I reflect on how I've felt this past 2 weeks I realize that I'm no longer asking questions. So I don't need answers either. I think.

I want to stay strong so I'm not sure what opening the door for her to clear her conscience would do to me. I'm just going to email her saying I'm not interested.


----------



## aug

tryingpatience said:


> I want to stay strong so I'm not sure what opening the door for her to clear her conscience would do to me. *I'm just going to email her saying I'm not interested.*



I think that's the better path to take. You're currently on your way to detachment. So till you feel you're detached, continue keeping minimal contact.


----------



## LongWalk

That's where you are right now. You should trust your gut.

Eventually once you have detached, you'll able to deal with personal meetings. The pain is too fresh.


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> I was thinking about both these things this morning and I thought I was going to have a panic attack, I started shaking, seriously. I know dadof2 and his situation has a lot of similarities and I've followed his thread.
> 
> I don't need an apology and if I reflect on how I've felt this past 2 weeks I realize that I'm no longer asking questions. So I don't need answers either. I think.
> 
> I want to stay strong so I'm not sure what opening the door for her to clear her conscience would do to me. I'm just going to email her saying I'm not interested.


Panic attack? Shaking?

Step back and ask yourself....do you really want to get back with the person who would do this to you?

What is so special about her that you could not find similar positive qualities in another woman....another woman who would not cheat, and lie and cause you this kind of pain and anxiety?

Oh and if you think meeting with her is going to give you some kind of closure or answers you are wrong. All you will do is sit there flabbergasted, drool dribbling out your limp lips, as she spews existential nonsense and gives you lame half-ass excuses as to why she did what she did, why you were not meeting her needs, and why she had to take solace in the arms of a man who would give her what you weren't. 

She is not ready for this talk. It will be years, after lots of self reflection, before she will be ready for such a talk. You are not ready either. You are wounded and she's a basket case.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

I'd text her "If you need a shoulder to cry on, that's the OM's job to do now. I'm not interested. Good bye.".


----------



## Suspecting2014

Turin74 said:


> Yes, thanks. I just prefer not to explicitly quote people.
> 
> 
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Sorry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

tryingpatience said:


> My stbxw sent me an email saying she wanted to talk about "stuff". I replied asking her what she wanted to talk about. She said she wanted to apologize at the very least.
> Not sure what to make of it and don't really want to meet her. Not sure if I can face her without losing it. But it could be a chance to air out everything. Don't know what to do. I want to give her sh*t but I don't think it will wake her up and give me satisfaction.
> It could be something more because her friend was reaching out to my other friend and fishing for info. about what's going on. I don't think that's a coincidence.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_



The length of her affair and the extent of her betrayal(the details you posted are horrific) makes this a no brainer. Don't.Do you think she will come clean completely at least now? 

If you do plan to meet her, just remember a few things:

1) The apology will be for herself.

2) She will directly/Indirectly blame you for the state of marriage that caused her to cheat.

3) It will reopen old wounds and destroy any progress you made until now. 

4) It will put your life in a limbo with a lot of "what if" scenarios. 

" Looks like she is really remorseful this time"

"Maybe I can sacrifice myself to give my kids a chance for a complete family."

"The only reason my family is separated because I was too selfish to not get back with her"

Just listen to her and after she finishes,leave.


----------



## tryingpatience

warlock07 said:


> The length of her affair and the extent of her betrayal(the details you posted are horrific) makes this a no brainer. Don't.Do you think she will come clean completely at least now?
> 
> If you do plan to meet her, just remember a few things:
> 
> 1) The apology will be for herself.
> 
> 2) She will directly/Indirectly blame you for the state of marriage that caused her to cheat.
> 
> 3) It will reopen old wounds and destroy any progress you made until now.
> 
> 4) It will put your life in a limbo with a lot of "what if" scenarios.
> 
> " Looks like she is really remorseful this time"
> 
> "Maybe I can sacrifice myself to give my kids a chance for a complete family."
> 
> "The only reason my family is separated because I was too selfish to not get back with her"
> 
> Just listen to her and after she finishes,leave.


I agree. But I'm still not sure if I should even listen to her. Like Bandit said it takes years of self reflection. Is that true? So at this moment I'm trying to figure out the best path to take here. One where I come out stronger. I think telling her "no thanks, not interested" is the best option.

I'm also trying not to do what I've done in the past with her. Before I would listen to her and probably argue with logic to get my point across. I would win most times because she would give up and blame herself and feel sorry for herself.



GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'd text her "If you need a shoulder to cry on, that's the OM's job to do now. I'm not interested. Good bye.".


I want to do that also.


----------



## bandit.45

She just wants to smooth things over...be friends with you to assuage her guilt for destroying the marriage and blowing up the family. If she can friend zone you then everything will be hunky dory, everything she did will be wiped off the record, and she can go forward with her OM with no regrets because you will be supporting her. 

And monkeys will fly out her ass. 

For some reason wayward wives need to do this. We've seen this many times. Not so much with wayward husbands.


----------



## BetrayedDad

bandit.45 said:


> She just wants to smooth things over...be friends with you to assuage her guilt for destroying the marriage and blowing up the family. If she can friend zone you then everything will be hunky dory, everything she did will be wiped off the record, and she can go forward with her OM with no regrets because you will be supporting her.
> 
> And monkeys will fly out her ass.
> 
> For some reason wayward wives need to do this. We've seen this many times. Not so much with wayward husbands.


100% true, he's on point with this. 

They do it for THEM, not for you. Don't give her the satisfaction. You're not her friend. You are nothing to her. Don't waste your time making her feel good about herself.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

If you do meet....take a VAR with you!!


----------



## Suspecting2014

tryingpatience said:


> I agree. But I'm still not sure if I should even listen to her. Like Bandit said it takes years of self reflection. Is that true? So at this moment I'm trying to figure out the best path to take here. One where I come out stronger. I think telling her "no thanks, not interested" is the best option.
> 
> I'm also trying not to do what I've done in the past with her. Before I would listen to her and probably argue with logic to get my point across. I would win most times because she would give up and blame herself and feel sorry for herself.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to do that also.


That Would be Nice but IMO just as you said not interested is the best answer.
The oposite of love is indiference not hate. Dont insult her just ignore her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Suspecting2014

BetrayedDad said:


> 100% true, he's on point with this.
> 
> They do it for THEM, not for you. Don't give her the satisfaction. You're not her friend. You are nothing to her. Don't waste your time making her feel good about herself.


Ir believe you know all you need to know and more, you are not getting a **** from the metting so avoid it, you must put your self first. You dont want or need a **** from her At this point
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## dadof2

As I was reading through the last few pages of this thread, I said to myself, "TP's scenario is mirroring mine to the letter." I see a few of you also picked up on that.

I believe as far as a meeting goes, it all depends on where you are at, not her. My STBX tried a month or so ago to have a meeting and/or start MC, but I told her I couldn't do that knowing what she had done. I honestly think it surprised her that I rebuffed her. At that point, though I was still hurt and the pain was fresh.

A couple of weeks ago I took the kids on vacation for a week and had a great time. Before I left I moved all of her remaining belongings out of the house and told her that I was done fighting and that I realize D is where we are heading so I no longer want to slow it down. I am so glad I did that when I did. I had a lot of time to think while driving, and I could feel the indifference to her slowly creeping in. I will admit, I had a few rough moments on vacation, especially seeing families enjoying themselves at the amusement parks.

But a funny thing happened while I was away. She came and got her things. She called/texted/facetimed more than she ever had. When I got home she asked for us to have breakfast as a family. I met each request with a calm answer, sometimes not answering her texts for hours. I can feel the detachment getting stronger each day. I do have bad days, and being alone sucks, but I also think about living with her lies and manipulation.

Now she has started back to school and I think the whole school knows about her and OM. I don't believe she is having any contact with him. Last year she used to park her car right next to his (something I found out later). Now her car is in the back of the lot by itself. She hasn't said a word to me about it. This past Monday she asked if she could come by and drop something off. It was a plate of brownies she made "for the kids." I told her at that time that I wasn't comfortable having any more of these meetings and pretending we are a family and that nothing is wrong. She agreed and said that she will look into a counselor again for us. I told her to let me know what she finds out. I don't have much expectations, but its amazing how they can see the detachment.

I don't know where we go from here, I don't know if I want to even try to R with her at this point. But I do know that I will make the final decision, not her. I am nowhere near done with the emotional rollercoaster, and I still hurt when I think of what she has done to our family, but the 4 months of NC has let me see things from 50K and the view is amazing.

I didn't mean to hijack, I guess I could have written this in my thread, but I wanted to you know that I was right there with STBX asking to talk about "stuff." We didn't get into the details at our family breakfast, but I think it opened the door for communication and I have made it clear that she will be the one to do the heavy lifting. I think you can take this path also. Go have a light meeting with her, don't even talk about the D. Talk about kids, make jokes about being a single dad, etc. But when its over, leave with your head high and don't stumble around trying to say something. Just tell her goodbye and let her be the one standing there.


----------



## treyvion

bandit.45 said:


> She just wants to smooth things over...be friends with you to assuage her guilt for destroying the marriage and blowing up the family. If she can friend zone you then everything will be hunky dory, everything she did will be wiped off the record, and she can go forward with her OM with no regrets because you will be supporting her.
> 
> And monkeys will fly out her ass.
> 
> For some reason wayward wives need to do this. We've seen this many times. Not so much with wayward husbands.


They like to label guys. So hubby is now the #2 or #3 or even #12 guy who is lucky enough to be able to support her while she enjoys her life. If he acknowledges it and supports her then it must be ok.


----------



## tryingpatience

dadof2, it's great that the detachment is getting stronger. It's the same for me. You've been trying to find out more about what happened with your wife with the PI. I on the other hand have more than 2 years worth of emails and pictures. The proof was in front of me and she was ashamed when confronted. She didn't want to talk to me about any of it.
The timing makes me suspicious that's why I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I agree with her wanting to clear her conscience. She probably wants to start the school year on a clean slate. I've decided that I won't be the one to give her that. 
When I was on vacation last week with the kids. The kids did facetime with her. At the end of the chat she started crying. I ignored it.
I gave her my answer and it was thank you, but not interested in meeting. I left it at that.


----------



## dadof2

tryingpatience said:


> dadof2, it's great that the detachment is getting stronger. It's the same for me. You've been trying to find out more about what happened with your wife with the PI. I on the other hand have more than 2 years worth of emails and pictures. The proof was in front of me and she was ashamed when confronted. She didn't want to talk to me about any of it.
> The timing makes me suspicious that's why I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I agree with her wanting to clear her conscience. She probably wants to start the school year on a clean slate. I've decided that I won't be the one to give her that.
> When I was on vacation last week with the kids. The kids did facetime with her. At the end of the chat she started crying. I ignored it.
> I gave her my answer and it was thank you, but not interested in meeting. I left it at that.


That's good to hear. I couldn't remember how long you have been dealing with everything, so it makes sense where you are at. I am still working to get there, and it seems like now that I am pulling away and finally feeling better about myself, here comes STBX wanting to pull me back in. I will not be manipulated anymore and am very skeptical to any moves my STBX makes. Best of luck with everything, I appreciate your thread, it always helps to talk/listen to others going through this hell.


----------



## bandit.45

dadof2 said:


> As I was reading through the last few pages of this thread, I said to myself, "TP's scenario is mirroring mine to the letter." I see a few of you also picked up on that.
> 
> I believe as far as a meeting goes, it all depends on where you are at, not her. My STBX tried a month or so ago to have a meeting and/or start MC, but I told her I couldn't do that knowing what she had done. I honestly think it surprised her that I rebuffed her. At that point, though I was still hurt and the pain was fresh.
> 
> A couple of weeks ago I took the kids on vacation for a week and had a great time. Before I left I moved all of her remaining belongings out of the house and told her that I was done fighting and that I realize D is where we are heading so I no longer want to slow it down. I am so glad I did that when I did. I had a lot of time to think while driving, and I could feel the indifference to her slowly creeping in. I will admit, I had a few rough moments on vacation, especially seeing families enjoying themselves at the amusement parks.
> 
> But a funny thing happened while I was away. She came and got her things. She called/texted/facetimed more than she ever had. When I got home she asked for us to have breakfast as a family. I met each request with a calm answer, sometimes not answering her texts for hours. I can feel the detachment getting stronger each day. I do have bad days, and being alone sucks, but I also think about living with her lies and manipulation.
> 
> Now she has started back to school and I think the whole school knows about her and OM. I don't believe she is having any contact with him. Last year she used to park her car right next to his (something I found out later). Now her car is in the back of the lot by itself. She hasn't said a word to me about it. This past Monday she asked if she could come by and drop something off. It was a plate of brownies she made "for the kids." I told her at that time that I wasn't comfortable having any more of these meetings and pretending we are a family and that nothing is wrong. She agreed and said that she will look into a counselor again for us. I told her to let me know what she finds out. I don't have much expectations, but its amazing how they can see the detachment.
> 
> I don't know where we go from here, I don't know if I want to even try to R with her at this point. But I do know that I will make the final decision, not her. I am nowhere near done with the emotional rollercoaster, and I still hurt when I think of what she has done to our family, but the 4 months of NC has let me see things from 50K and the view is amazing.
> 
> I didn't mean to hijack, I guess I could have written this in my thread, but I wanted to you know that I was right there with STBX asking to talk about "stuff." We didn't get into the details at our family breakfast, but I think it opened the door for communication and I have made it clear that she will be the one to do the heavy lifting. I think you can take this path also. Go have a light meeting with her, don't even talk about the D. Talk about kids, make jokes about being a single dad, etc. But when its over, leave with your head high and don't stumble around trying to say something. Just tell her goodbye and let her be the one standing there.


Cut and paste this to your thread.


----------



## bandit.45

tryingpatience said:


> dadof2, it's great that the detachment is getting stronger. It's the same for me. You've been trying to find out more about what happened with your wife with the PI. I on the other hand have more than 2 years worth of emails and pictures. The proof was in front of me and she was ashamed when confronted. She didn't want to talk to me about any of it.
> The timing makes me suspicious that's why I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I agree with her wanting to clear her conscience. She probably wants to start the school year on a clean slate. I've decided that I won't be the one to give her that.
> When I was on vacation last week with the kids. The kids did facetime with her. At the end of the chat she started crying. I ignored it.
> I gave her my answer and it was thank you, but not interested in meeting. I left it at that.


Good. Move on. Don't swim in her pity sea.


----------



## Suspecting2014

tryingpatience said:


> dadof2, it's great that the detachment is getting stronger. It's the same for me. You've been trying to find out more about what happened with your wife with the PI. I on the other hand have more than 2 years worth of emails and pictures. The proof was in front of me and she was ashamed when confronted. She didn't want to talk to me about any of it.
> The timing makes me suspicious that's why I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I agree with her wanting to clear her conscience. She probably wants to start the school year on a clean slate. I've decided that I won't be the one to give her that.
> When I was on vacation last week with the kids. The kids did facetime with her. At the end of the chat she started crying. I ignored it.
> I gave her my answer and it was thank you, but not interested in meeting. I left it at that.


Well done!


----------



## Suspecting2014

dadof2 said:


> That's good to hear. I couldn't remember how long you have been dealing with everything, so it makes sense where you are at. I am still working to get there, and it seems like now that I am pulling away and finally feeling better about myself, here comes STBX wanting to pull me back in. I will not be manipulated anymore and am very skeptical to any moves my STBX makes. Best of luck with everything, I appreciate your thread, it always helps to talk/listen to others going through this hell.


I have been following your thread and IMO at this point you should get D finished and the, if you feel oike and she is doing the rigth things, you do R, not before.

Just dont date a girl that have a RO on you


----------



## happyman64

tryingpatiece

Trust your gut.

But may I make one suggestion.

No matter what happens with your marriage you are going to have some sort of relationship with your wife. Your kids are too young so in essence you are stuck with her.

"Communication" is key with a person like your wife. Selfish. Self centered. The "what about me" syndrome I call it.

Just don't say thank you but no thank you. If you feel she wants to apologize to absolve her guilt tell her "Sorry but do not waste your time apologizing for all you lying and cheating for the past two years".

Make it very clear what you are saying no thank you to.

Because you are stuck with her. Sooner or later she is hopefully going to get it and become a better person.

Since you are stuck with her why not make it sooner.

Everyone else will say I am crazy but over time it actually could make your coparenting go easier....

HM


----------



## tryingpatience

happyman64 said:


> tryingpatiece
> 
> Trust your gut.
> 
> But may I make one suggestion.
> 
> No matter what happens with your marriage you are going to have some sort of relationship with your wife. Your kids are too young so in essence you are stuck with her.
> 
> "Communication" is key with a person like your wife. Selfish. Self centered. The "what about me" syndrome I call it.
> 
> Just don't say thank you but no thank you. If you feel she wants to apologize to absolve her guilt tell her "Sorry but do not waste your time apologizing for all you lying and cheating for the past two years".
> 
> Make it very clear what you are saying no thank you to.
> 
> Because you are stuck with her. Sooner or later she is hopefully going to get it and become a better person.
> 
> Since you are stuck with her why not make it sooner.
> 
> Everyone else will say I am crazy but over time it actually could make your coparenting go easier....
> 
> HM


You might be right. I could have gone that way also. Hopefully I'll have an opportunity to do so. Being clear is always good IMO.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

tryingpatience said:


> dadof2, it's great that the detachment is getting stronger. It's the same for me. You've been trying to find out more about what happened with your wife with the PI. I on the other hand have more than 2 years worth of emails and pictures. The proof was in front of me and she was ashamed when confronted. She didn't want to talk to me about any of it.
> *The timing makes me suspicious that's why I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I agree with her wanting to clear her conscience. She probably wants to start the school year on a clean slate. I've decided that I won't be the one to give her that.
> When I was on vacation last week with the kids. The kids did facetime with her. At the end of the chat she started crying. I ignored it.
> I gave her my answer and it was thank you, but not interested in meeting. I left it at that.*


Many of us have been, or are in the same boat as you. There's never much to smile about when going through this.

But when I read the bold'd part and got to the last line, It did make me smile and nod my head.

It's not easy to do now, but it will get easier. Trust me.

My ex started to pull the same type of thing. Only it wasn't breakfast. It was tear laden, drunk phone calls. Between 12:00-2:30 am.

She would always start with an I'm sorry, but then go on a "woe is me" fest. After about the 4th time, I shut her down.

I wasn't good enough to stay married, or faithful to, but I guess no one could ever sooth her emotional pains as well as I did, so she figured she could still lean on me.

She wanted some of the services, but didn't want to pay for the whole plan. I disconnected her by shutting my ringer off after 11:00 every Friday and Saturday night. She never mentioned it, but apologized a few weeks later for calling me and never did it again.

I wish to this day that I would have just hung up on her the first time she called. You did the right thing. Nothing that she would have said to you would have been for your benefit, only for hers.


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## GusPolinski

tryingpatience said:


> When we went through our pre marriage course with the church. The priest asked us if we could forgive infidelity. She said yes and I said no.
> 
> I did catch a flirty email between the two of them after our first born and I lost it. I told her that friends don't speak to each other that way. She said that they were just friends. I told her to set him straight. She said she did and naively I believed her. With the stress of the baby and *getting pregnant again soon after* I didn't realize that she just stopped bringing him up and started taking her infatuation underground.


Uhhh...

Not sure if this has been said already or not but you should probably DNA that kid.

Hell, BOTH of them.

ETA: Just caught this exchange...



Ripper said:


> Don't know if it has been covered elsewhere, but my first thought on seeing this is DNA testing the kids.





tryingpatience said:


> I've been told this by many here. No need to because the OM is white and I'm asian, stbxw is too. There is no doubt.
> 
> Also, I did put the OM on cheaterville after seeing other posters who did the same.


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## GusPolinski

happyman64 said:


> tryingpatience
> 
> use the next few months to become indifferent to her.
> 
> *"She's just the mother of my kids"*
> 
> COparent with her and nothing more.
> 
> She does not deserve your friendship.
> 
> But the kids deserve their Dad. A happy Dad.
> 
> A Dad who tried to keep their family together.
> 
> So focus on you and your kids. Get the best custody deal you can get.
> 
> Keep it simple.
> 
> You do not have to hate your STBXWW. You only have to tolerate her enough to be an effective coparent.
> 
> HM


I'm a bit late w/ this but I'd refer to her as my "Baby Mama".


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## GusPolinski

tryingpatience said:


> The emails showed excitement. Talking about the sex they had. She was also being bold. She contacted a lawyer, she was looking for a place of her own, dreaming about their life together, talking about taking trips and keeping secrets. There was a lot of fantasy about having a place and raising our kids with the OM. She mentioned him as the future step dad a few times.
> 
> I'm happy with the amount of exposure I did. I could have blasted an email to their entire mailing list but I figured that sending emails to strangers would look petty on my part. Like I was just an angry bitter man because I don't know what she's told others. I exposed to whom she was closest to and I walked away. It makes it clear that I don't care.
> 
> After reading a lot on TAM I think I made the best move. She knows that I'm a fixer and I don't easily give up on problems. By me going no contact and pushing the agreement through and soon the divorce she should get the message. Even if she doesn't, it's helped me get to a point where I feel I can move on. I still have my ups and downs but I'll keep going even if I have to fake it sometimes.


You could have "accidentally" clicked Reply All on an e-mail containing a number of their common contacts, then "accidentally" pasted some of the juicier details into the body of the reply, and then "accidentally" clicked Send.

OOPS!!!


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## tryingpatience

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh...
> 
> Not sure if this has been said already or not but you should probably DNA that kid.
> 
> Hell, BOTH of them.
> 
> ETA: Just caught this exchange...


I tested the youngest and he is my son. Received results last week. One less thing to think about. Things definitely changed after his birth.

Now how the hell do you deal with a kid that cries at night missing her mom. It doesn't make me feel as awful as it did the first time it happened but it still sucks.


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## Turin74

*Re: Re: What should I have learned from my experience?*

How old? 


tryingpatience said:


> I tested the youngest and he is my son. Received results last week. One less thing to think about. Things definitely changed after his birth.
> 
> Now how the hell do you deal with a kid that cries at night missing her mom. It doesn't make me feel as awful as it did the first time it happened but it still sucks.


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## tryingpatience

Turin74 said:


> How old?


She's turning 5 next month.


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## Turin74

*Re: Re: What should I have learned from my experience?*

Ok, I just called somebody I know who is the best specialist in the area, good old school bloke with the list of degrees longer than your thread 
My apologies for doing that but obviously I have disclosed nothing. I hope this doesn't get me in trouble here, I didn't have time to pm you (time zone) What he said:
Age is "good" under circumstances. 
Solution is a lot of new positive impressions, tire her out positively, at the end of day, she shouldn't feel her legs under her. Don't overspend on toys, invest in time with her. But also give her time to play alone. Best scenario: buy new DVD with whatever girl/princess story with the toy from this movie. Watch together, play a bit with that toy together than leave her to play with the toy herself. Spend all time and money needed (but don't overspend on gifts/toys). Pick up time at night she's crying and check on her, but not holding for a long time, etc. Avoid answering "where is mommy" question directly, try to redirect the attention. 

Hope it does make sense. Me sincerest apologies for asking without your permission. 


tryingpatience said:


> She's turning 5 next month.


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## tryingpatience

Turin74 said:


> Ok, I just called somebody I know who is the best specialist in the area, good old school bloke with the list of degrees longer than your thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My apologies for doing that but obviously I have disclosed nothing. I hope this doesn't get me in trouble here, I didn't have time to pm you (time zone) What he said:
> Age is "good" under circumstances.
> Solution is a lot of new positive impressions, tire her out positively, at the end of day, she shouldn't feel her legs under her. Don't overspend on toys, invest in time with her. But also give her time to play alone. Best scenario: buy new DVD with whatever girl/princess story with the toy from this movie. Watch together, play a bit with that toy together than leave her to play with the toy herself. Spend all time and money needed (but don't overspend on gifts/toys). Pick up time at night she's crying and check on her, but not holding for a long time, etc. Avoid answering "where is mommy" question directly, try to redirect the attention.
> 
> Hope it does make sense. Me sincerest apologies for asking without your permission.
> 
> 
> tryingpatience said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's turning 5 next month.
Click to expand...

No apology needed. I will try this and take your friends advice. Please give him my thanks. Its always the worst for her on the night of the transfer.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## tryingpatience

If this helps others out there, even better.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## Turin74

No problems, so glad you didn't take it the wrong way. And, if the info is helpful, please don't hesitate ever to ask, he owes me a lot  
While he is the best here, this obviously won't replace f2f with a specialist in your area. He's not saying your D needs IC but you better talk to someone about her. Also: sort out whatever schedule /visitation asap (know it's easier said than done, just conveying the message).


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## tryingpatience

With the house sold and divorce pending I feel like giving her a farewell letter. My therapist said that many people who divorce write a goodbye letter and burn it. It's suppose to be therapeutic. I want to give her the goodbye letter. I know that I recently refused to see her for an apology a few days ago. With that in mind. What are your thoughts on me giving her my goodbye letter?


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## bandit.45

It needs to be a letter of finality....not some soppy "guess it just wasn't in the stars for us" emotional pukeball. 

Tell her what you think of her, in no uncertain terms, that you will forgive her when she starts truly acting like she wants forgiveness, and that you are not or ever will be her friend. You don't need friends like her in your life. You will coparent with her, and that will be that. 

Tell her that she is an utter disappointment to you.


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## BWBill

Don't give it to her. She will like the communication even if she doesn't like the content. She may even respond and then what do you do?

The NC is obviously affecting her. It is communicating exactly what you want it to: she did wrong, you're angry, and you want nothing to do with her.


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## tryingpatience

Having a moment of weakness here. Turns out that I filed the wrong form for divorce and now have to pull it back and start over. No big deal right? But now she has involved her lawyer and she wants to pay her lawyer to take care of the process and apply for divorce jointly.

I wanted it to be me who initiated it. I can let that go because divorce is the end goal either way. But I feel like sh*t now because she's been emailing about all sorts of things regarding this and even an email gets me angry. I'm trying to relax.

I'm going to propose that she gets her lawyer to take care of it and she pay for it.


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## warlock07

Tell her to only contact through a lawyer if it pertains to the divorce


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## tryingpatience

Signed the closing papers and handed over the keys last Friday. She looked sad. After everything was done I decided to listen to what she had to say.

She said that she was trying and keeping her mind open to fixing our marriage the past year. She said this was her problem and she truthfully just wants control over her life and she's sorry that she didn't give me a chance to be that support for her.

I told her that all that was bs. True reconciliation meant being truthful, remorseful and showing humility.

Then the tone changed to pity and she asked me if I could make sure that my family wouldn't talk badly about her in front of the kids. I gave her my goodbye letter and left. She replied in an email later but it was more of the same thing. Never addressing anything I said in it. She said she won't argue but continued to ask me not to bad mouth her.

I just had to listen to see if there was any remorse. There was none.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## LongWalk

She has too much shame that she cannot imagine facing it.


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## bandit.45

LongWalk said:


> She has too much shame that she cannot imagine facing it.


Correct. Shame and pride are the two main reasons many waywards never truly repent or show remorse. To have true remorse you have to give up pride and give in to shame.


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> Correct. Shame and pride are the two main reasons many waywards never truly repent or show remorse. To have true remorse you have to give up pride and give in to shame.


Sad but she made her bed.


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## Suspecting2014

tryingpatience said:


> Signed the closing papers and handed over the keys last Friday. She looked sad. After everything was done I decided to listen to what she had to say.
> 
> She said that she was trying and keeping her mind open to fixing our marriage the past year. She said this was her problem and she truthfully just wants control over her life and she's sorry that she didn't give me a chance to be that support for her.


BS, she is just trying to be a friend with you so she can manipulate you!!



tryingpatience said:


> Then the tone changed to pity and she asked me* if I could make sure that my family wouldn't talk badly about her in front of the kids*. I gave her my goodbye letter and left. She replied in an email later but it was more of the same thing. Never addressing anything I said in it. She said she won't argue but continued *to ask me not to bad mouth her*.


BS, she is just trying to be a friend with you so she can manipulate you!!

Go back to 180.

I believe the letter intention is for you to have a closure, don't expect anything from her!!! she's long gone.

The best you can do is get better, in body and mind.

She will be releasing the full consequences of her actions day by day, and is not for you to make it easier.

You got to have an amicable relation with her (for your son), but just that, nothing more!!!

PS keep the email, some day your son will ask what happened and you can show him the email, so she can not change the facts.


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## warlock07

Does she know how much you know about her affair ? What was in your goodbye letter ? 



> She said that she was trying and keeping her mind open to fixing our marriage the past year. She said this was her problem and she truthfully just wants control over her life and she's sorry that she didn't give me a chance to be that support for her.


Such BS.





> Every time sex comes up she reminds me that there is no love and wants to separate. She leaves a few days here and few days there and comes back


She did not even put a little effort in apologizing and made this into a "finding herself" thing. Maybe she realized how hypocritical it would be to even apologize after what she did.

All she is worried about is her image.



> She said she won't argue but continued to ask me not to bad mouth her.


Maybe ask her what she means by bad mouthing her ? And what you should tell the kids when they ask you ? 

And if she is still with the OM, that should tell a lot about her.


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## Calibre1212

You learn to trust yourself first and always and to never compromise that again.


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## tryingpatience

I just wanted to update my thread because many times I read them and I'm always curious about how things ended. I didn't want to leave mine without the ending. 

Mine is not really an ending but a beginning. I've started a new job and I've also started dating an amazing girl. She gave me her number when I left my old job. I never noticed her until recently. We are really into each other.

I'm taking it slow but I feel so much stronger and smarter now. I'm looking for red flags and I've been completely honest with her about them. This seems to make me even more attractive to her. My eyes are open to all the possibilities. Things look completely different now. 

Looking back the one most important thing I did that helped me heal was going NC. For those of you with kids it is possible to go NC. I only communicate with with the ex when it has to do with the kids and even then it is only through email. I've gotten to the point where I don't care. It's been said here that the opposite of love is not hate but apathy.

I have no idea what's going to happen but I'm fine with that because I know how to be happy on my own. I know the value I bring.


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## tom67

tryingpatience said:


> I just wanted to update my thread because many times I read them and I'm always curious about how things ended. I didn't want to leave mine without the ending.
> 
> Mine is not really an ending but a beginning. I've started a new job and I've also started dating an amazing girl. She gave me her number when I left my old job. I never noticed her until recently. We are really into each other.
> 
> I'm taking it slow but I feel so much stronger and smarter now. I'm looking for red flags and I've been completely honest with her about them. This seems to make me even more attractive to her. My eyes are open to all the possibilities. Things look completely different now.
> 
> Looking back the one most important thing I did that helped me heal was going NC. For those of you with kids it is possible to go NC. I only communicate with with the ex when it has to do with the kids and even then it is only through email. I've gotten to the point where I don't care. It's been said here that the opposite of love is not hate but apathy.
> 
> I have no idea what's going to happen but I'm fine with that because I know how to be happy on my own. I know the value I bring.


Thanks for the update.


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## Tobyboy

tryingpatience said:


> I just wanted to update my thread because many times I read them and I'm always curious about how things ended. I didn't want to leave mine without the ending.
> 
> Mine is not really an ending but a beginning. I've started a new job and I've also started dating an amazing girl. She gave me her number when I left my old job. I never noticed her until recently. We are really into each other.
> 
> I'm taking it slow but I feel so much stronger and smarter now. I'm looking for red flags and I've been completely honest with her about them. This seems to make me even more attractive to her. My eyes are open to all the possibilities. Things look completely different now.
> 
> Looking back the one most important thing I did that helped me heal was going NC. For those of you with kids it is possible to go NC. I only communicate with with the ex when it has to do with the kids and even then it is only through email. I've gotten to the point where I don't care. It's been said here that the opposite of love is not hate but apathy.
> 
> I have no idea what's going to happen but I'm fine with that because I know how to be happy on my own. I know the value I bring.


Awesome update!!


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## tryingpatience

Been a long while. Not sure if any of you remember my story. Things are going well with the new gf. The co-parenting thing I'm handling without any issues. Our wedding anniversary was this month and I received a really short email from my ex and all it said was "im so sorry".

I replied saying the kids are happy and I am happy. She should be happy and to keep all communication strictly about the kids.


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## jim123

tryingpatience said:


> Been a long while. Not sure if any of you remember my story. Things are going well with the new gf. The co-parenting thing I'm handling without any issues. Our wedding anniversary was this month and I received a really short email from my ex and all it said was "im so sorry".
> 
> I replied saying the kids are happy and I am happy. She should be happy and to keep all communication strictly about the kids.


Good for you. Keep moving forward and it will work out.


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## Openminded

That's a great update!! 

Living well is definitely the best revenge.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

tryingpatience said:


> Our wedding anniversary was this month and I received a really short email from my ex and all it said was "im so sorry".
> 
> I replied saying the kids are happy and I am happy. She should be happy and to keep all communication strictly about the kids.


NOW, THAT"S THE WAY YOU DO IT!

Some of the BS's here that are trying to detach need to take note.

She she emails that she's sorry. Your respond, that the kids are the only thing that she ever needs to communicate to you about.

No barbs. No feelings. Just a business like response.


Of course, the whole time that I was writing the above, I was thinking that I would have wanted to say to her.

"Sorry?... That's too bad, because my GF tells me just the opposite. She said that if you ever mentioned that you're sorry to tell you, don't worry about it, she'll treat me much better. So, don't be sorry, just be happy for me. Good bye." *Click*


----------



## warlock07

tryingpatience said:


> Been a long while. Not sure if any of you remember my story. Things are going well with the new gf. The co-parenting thing I'm handling without any issues. Our wedding anniversary was this month and I received a really short email from my ex and all it said was "im so sorry".
> 
> I replied saying the kids are happy and I am happy. She should be happy and to keep all communication strictly about the kids.


On the positive, she is not adding anymore drama to your life or make it worse by being a psycho. So that is progress.

Atleast she knows she was the one that f*cked up. Is she with the OM or did she get dumped ?


----------



## happyman64

I was wondering the same thing. Did she stay with the OM?

And your response was appropriate.

Short, sweet and keep it about the kids.


----------



## tryingpatience

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Of course, the whole time that I was writing the above, I was thinking that I would have wanted to say to her.
> 
> "Sorry?... That's too bad, because my GF tells me just the opposite. She said that if you ever mentioned that you're sorry to tell you, don't worry about it, she'll treat me much better. So, don't be sorry, just be happy for me. Good bye." *Click*


My gf didn't like that she sent me this email in the first place. She says that my ex doesn't want to see her angry side 



happyman64 said:


> I was wondering the same thing. Did she stay with the OM?
> 
> And your response was appropriate.
> 
> Short, sweet and keep it about the kids.


The kids have never mentioned the OMs name yet. But as far as I know they are still together. She's keeping the two lives separate still it seems.


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## happyman64

Then she is still living the lie.

Glad you are happy.

And your GF sounds like she wants to kick some @ss!

I like her already...


----------

