# Thinking about a separation soon, need advice



## n00b

I'll try to make a long story somewhat short. My wife started acting "weird" a couple of weeks ago. I asked her what was wrong, she said "I don't know, I just wonder if this is all there is to life". Very confusing and honestly, it made me mad. Mad that she needed more and what I was giving her wasn't enough. We've been married for 16 years, have 3 amazing kids. (14,12,7). However, for the last few years we do fight a lot. There have been great times, but more anger than love. We talked last night for about 4 hours, very calmly. I feel like a weight has been lifted after talking. I did jump to conclusions immediately, but now I wonder if I was wrong.

I asked if there was something going on with a particular guy. I found a few phone calls from him on the phone bill (to and from). He's married with 2 kids and lives an hour away. I thought it was strange that she had to go out of town (between our home and where he lives), and happened to call him while she was gone. She's gotten protective of her phone and wanted her iTunes account removed from the "family" account. 

She still denies anything and I'm at the point where I don't think I care. We went through an EA about 10 years ago. She cheated with the guy she was seeing when we met. I caught her with text logs, phone calls, etc. No denying it. I got divorce papers, then we decided to give it another shot.

We went to counseling (honestly didn't do much for us). We did work on it ourselves. Things became better than ever before and we had 2 more children.

I started to evaluate my own feelings. I've always been a giver, I do what she wants to try and make things better. We haven't had sex in 4 months... The last few years have averaged about once a month anyway. I've gained weight and have been trying to get in better shape, she's been working out as well.

I give compliments to her a lot and try to be affectionate. That doesn't seem to matter to her anymore. She said she feels like she's given everything she has to me and our kids and has nothing left. 

Do we try again for the sake of our marriage and children? We both said we feel like we have tried - a lot - over the last several years.

I can't stand the complaining and nitpicking, she can't stand me being "lazy". I work about 50 hours a week and she stays at home, but does have an in-home business. I don't know what other details to give...

We did say maybe a trial separation is a way to start. I'm scared of how it will affect the kids, to be completely honest. I think my 14 year would honestly be relieved.

What else? I looked at the 180 and ordered a book that was mentioned in a previous post. I'm just not sure if I WANT to try to make it work at this point.

-Thanks in advance!


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## lewmin

noob,

Deep down you really do know what is going on...you are on here to confirm it form TAM members. And you are going to get an extensive list from TAM respondents of what to do now. But you know your wife has now fallen for another man and her denying should mean nothing. All the telltale signs are there, aren't they? She is giving affection to another man (that's why you don't get compliments anymore). Also, she is rewriting her marriage to you (calling you lazy although you work 50 hours a week, and she is a SAHM).

Do you want to try to reconcile at this point?...if so, you need to get the proof, (VAR, keylogger, PI) and kill the affair after the proof by exposing. Then there is a chance if you want it to reconcile. If you are not interested, move on....there are other fish in the sea.


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## n00b

I honestly don't feel like I have the energy to get the proof... I don't want to go through it again. Thanks for the response. Inside, I know you are correct. I think its the guilt that's keeping me from running out the door (and the kids, obviously). I feel like I've failed. Perhaps I have, but we both have.

She says she doesn't think she'll ever want another husband or any man for that matter, she just thinks it would be good to be alone. I'm not sure how we can financially handle this. I make pretty good money and I hope that she can get a job of some kind. She has an AA degree and nothing else. I guess I should let her figure that out. I'm just a people pleaser kind of guy. Is she wanting me to agree that we're not happy so its easier on her? I have no idea.


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## Alpha

Wife goes out and bangs someone else and you have to pay for it. That sucks doesn't it? Get the best lawyer you can and stick it to her. 

Don't worry about the children, they are old enough to know who blew up the family. 

Good chance your emotions will swing wildly. Try to take it day by day and just move forward because you want to start this, the next chapter of your life, on a clean slate.


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## Keenwa

n00b said:


> I honestly don't feel like I have the energy to get the proof... I don't want to go through it again. Thanks for the response. Inside, I know you are correct. I think its the guilt that's keeping me from running out the door (and the kids, obviously). I feel like I've failed. Perhaps I have, but we both have.
> 
> She says she doesn't think she'll ever want another husband or any man for that matter, she just thinks it would be good to be alone. I'm not sure how we can financially handle this. I make pretty good money and I hope that she can get a job of some kind. She has an AA degree and nothing else. I guess I should let her figure that out. I'm just a people pleaser kind of guy. Is she wanting me to agree that we're not happy so its easier on her? I have no idea.


I find it interesting that people always jump to the same conclusion. For me the catalyst for wanting to leave and be "alone" was as a result of a workshop I did where all of a sudden it hit me like a tonne of bricks, because after feeling really great at the workshop, I went home and the contrast was so obvious to me all of a sudden of how crappy my relationship and the entire household had become toxic, how I was completely in a state of exhaustion from working so hard to keep us afloat, trying to support my unemployed husband. Kids were miserable, husband was completely disconnected, we were all walking zombies. It hit me so hard I lost it… I wept for 2 weeks after the kids went to bed… I didn't even know at the time what I was so sad about it, till it hit me, I was mourning the end of our marriage. 

The point I guess is, maybe for some people it's a new person who appears in their lives who shows them how crappy their life is, and maybe for others it's not that. Sex is such a small part of life really… but we all need to feel loved. If your marriage is falling apart it's because of that, not some gratuitous sex someone had as a result of feeling disconnected.

I just want to be alone at this point too. I can't even imagine trying to start another relationship… I'm sure that feeling changes over time.


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## indiecat

Why can't you tell her to move out for a few months and sort her feelings out?

You don't need a partner who is just with you because it's convenient for her. 

The kids do pick up on the lack of affection and it does make them sad too.

Don't confuse people pleasing with a lack of self respect. You sound like very good man who deserves a honest, caring relationship.


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## lfortender

Have you ever read No More Mr Nice Guys?


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## n00b

Well, I'm back. Here's what's been going on. I've been moved out for about 3 weeks now. I'm renting a small place and enjoying the freedom for the most part. She's been good with sharing time with the kids.

There's no reconciliation on her part. I solidified the reason. I found that she booked a motel room in the same town as the alleged other guy the weekend before last. There was no charge on the card, just a booking. I called the motel and she showed up at 6:30 p.m. and stayed until 10:30 p.m. and paid with cash. She then went to her sister's (in the same town) and stayed the night.

I finally confronted her about it and the water works started. She said she booked the room as a surprise for her sister and her niece and nephew, then decided to just get a night away for herself. She then got "scared" and decided to go stay with her sister. I didn't buy a bit of it and said as much. She said "I don't blame you for not buying it" Not sure what to say to that. Anyway, then a long sob story about how she's not as strong as she lets on and she's just a scared little girl, yada yada. Deflecting - whatever. 

At this point, I've seen an attorney and got the questionnaire. I'm trying to keep it civil and might even have her talked into doing it with just my attorney. I'm not out to screw anyone over, I just want to be done. I think she's a bit scared to move on because she's losing her incoming source, me. No more health/car insurance, etc. Maybe her sugar daddy should step in? Anyway, What do you all have to say on these steps?

My kids are doing well - I'm keeping them out of the drama. They love coming to Dad's house now. My oldest daughter did ask if Mom and this other guy had some "thing" going on - she said she was acting weird. Sad... I just said I didn't know. Should I tell her that our daughter knows what's going on without anyone saying anything?


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## Keenwa

Wow that really sucks. I suppose if you really wanted to be sure, you could hire a PI. But in the end, what does it matter? Either way it's not working for you. Might be worth it to push counselling for her and yourself, just so you can be sure that her relationship with your kids stays healthy. We've been trying to make it work for about 10 months, and though we may or may not stay together at this point, one good outcome of the counselling is that I am happier with his relationship with our kids. That was a stressor for me, to think that if we separated that the kids would spend time with a dad who was not really present in the room with them.


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## n00b

Thanks Keenwa. You are right, I really don't care to hire a PI. The fact is, she's done and I am as well. This has happened before and I can't do it again. I want to move on. I'm starting to hit the gym and get in better shape and take better care of myself. I just worry so much about money and other things. The pathetic part is, I worry about her. I've always provided, she's been a stay-at-home mom and done a good job of it. But I keep telling myself - this is what SHE brought up and what she wanted. Then I tell myself that this is what I want now, and it honestly is. 

It still sucks big time, going home to an empty house. No kids or pets or anything. Trying to stay active. Wish me luck and thanks again! Feel free to chime in with advice.


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## Keenwa

Hey N00b,

just re-read your post, and I have to say I can relate a bit to your wife... it seems common for us to lose ourselves in our roles as mothers and wives. I worked and did all motherly duties and most of the household duties. He just worked. I lost myself completely. I take total responsibility for it. I too have a supportive and kind H.. but it's not enough. We built this dysfunction together, and I wanted out. I wanted to run out screaming when it finally hit me, that I didn't want to live this ****ty life for the next 40 years. I guess that's what they call a midlife crisis. who knows. anyhow, I guess it's just easy to get complacent and lethargic in life, love, career... etc etc. Some people do that their whole lives and others well... not so much. 

Now 10 months into MC and IC... i can say that though it's extremely hard, all of this, whatever happens I know I will be more alive, more connected, more interested and interesting. I worry about my H... because he relies on me for everything social outside of work and I wonder how he will do without me, and he tells me how he doesn't know anyone he can talk to like he talks to me. So I have a lot of guilt around the idea of leaving. But that's my problem and I need to get over it. I don't need to take care of him. She can continue to be a good mom, not living in the house with you. I also find it pretty daunting the idea of actually moving out,and not seeing my kids all the time. I think that is my biggest fear.


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## n00b

Good point. I get that, I really do. But my point to her was, we should have worked on this before you went to another man for support. I would have gladly tried something else. I rely on her for a lot, but socially, I'm fine. I don't worry about finding someone else, that's the least of my worries now. I just want to take care of my kids and be as happy as I can be. Not tucking my kids into bed every night is the hardest thing I've ever (not) done. Best of luck to you! I'll keep you updated.


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## turnera

Sounds like neither one of you really wanted to be married any more. She just upped the schedule with an exit affair.

The judge will decide for you what you have to give her - and since she's a SAHM, it will be a LOT. If I were you, I'd push for 4 years of maintenance while she gets a college degree and then you're done, aside from child support.


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## Mo24

Noob, I got the ILYBINILWY speech last October. Even though I wasnt ready to give up, the choice was already made. 

Now, you certainly cant stay married to her while she is seeing another guy. 

The reason I am responding here is to tell you that I got the lawyer, I filed, and we worked it out with my lawyer. She was not represented, which, frankly made me feel better. I was and am not out to screw anyone over, however if she HAD gotten a lawyer, it likely would have been much worse for me. I think how we ended it is fair enough, considering the situation. 

My specific circumstances not important, but having been in a similar situation, I say lay the guilt on when you need to and do what you can to keep her from thinking she needs a lawyer. I would just let her know from time to time that SHE is the one that stepped out of the marriage-- you are ok with ending amicably though.


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## Mo24

I have no alimony and some child support. I have to buy her out of the house-- but not in a lump sum. She, knowing that she spent all the $$ I worked my a$$ off to save the last 10 years, agreed to let me spread it out over 7 years. 

We did not have mediation, just worked with my lawyer on assets, visitation schedule (joint custody), and there was a financial worksheet that determined the child support. My lawyer drew up the decree, we signed, he sent to court, judge approved and it was final.


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## Malpheous

n00b said:


> Well, I'm back. Here's what's been going on. I've been moved out for about 3 weeks now. I'm renting a small place and enjoying the freedom for the most part. She's been good with sharing time with the kids.


This won't last much longer. You shouldn't have moved out. Is it a home you both own? If so, move back in. Now. You need a VAR to help avoid a BS DV charge. But move back. Put a lock on a guest/spare room and live in it. Gather any and all needed legal documents and secure them into a lockable safe box someplace safe. You should not count on her allowing you anything. You are the father of the children. Until the court tells you different, you both have the same rights and abilities to exercise those rights with your children. Right now Status Quo is developing. When it goes to court, and it likely will, you're telling the court that you're ok with her having it all. Are you prepared to miss out on parenting your children? This isn't the time to fall on your sword. This isn't about being a jerk to her. This is about the future of your children and securing a place in their lives. Clarify it with your lawyer and do it. If your lawyer tells you not to, then they need to be moving on a temporary custody order immediately, securing you 50/50 overnights with joint legal and residential custody. You may also be able to name the school district in the temp order. 'Children will attend <x> school district unless other wise agreed by both parties, etc'. That would help avoid random move away attempts. 

Remember, when figuring 50/50, you want 50% of overnights. Dinner visits is a BS feel good maneuver.


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## Malpheous

Oh yeah... With family nearby'ish, you want to be sure to work in a solid ROFR. Something like a 2 hour window not part of the standard work schedule of a 40 hour week. Place burden on the party not exercising time to offer the time to the other. Has to be spelled out. This avoids her leaving little Johnny at Aunty Em's house for the weekend while she's on a mini-vacay with Mr W. Means she has to give you the time or option to exercise the time at least. But it leave sit open to use daycare, etc without ending up in keep-away games. Be sure to address openness for sleep overs with friends etc. Has to be written carefully to avoid her using 'sleep over at cousins not babysitting' as a ruse.

and don't spin your wheels on Moral Turpitude and Overnights with Mr W. Not very enforceable. Leaves the court thinking you have control issues. Etc. Besides... Right of Free Association or something like that...


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## n00b

Here's the latest. Papers are filed, seeing the attorney again today. Decided to inform the other guy's wife. She has been suspicious as well. Found him in several lies that coincide with dates that she was alone and I had the kids.

My kids are asking if there is something between their mom and this other guy. I just say, we're still married so I don't think so, just to protect them.

Found out that my wife went to see him where he was staying when his wife kicked him out for the night. Neither of us have any "solid" evidence at this point. MANY, MANY coincidences and rumors though. Either way, I'm getting divorced. I wish I could spare my kids having to be around the guy. She has asked for substantial CS and spousal support as well as the house. Also said I get the kids every other weekend.

I'm going for joint custody and no spousal support. Wish me luck.


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## tom67

n00b said:


> Here's the latest. Papers are filed, seeing the attorney again today. Decided to inform the other guy's wife. She has been suspicious as well. Found him in several lies that coincide with dates that she was alone and I had the kids.
> 
> My kids are asking if there is something between their mom and this other guy. I just say, we're still married so I don't think so, just to protect them.
> 
> Found out that my wife went to see him where he was staying when his wife kicked him out for the night. Neither of us have any "solid" evidence at this point. MANY, MANY coincidences and rumors though. Either way, I'm getting divorced. I wish I could spare my kids having to be around the guy. She has asked for substantial CS and spousal support as well as the house. Also said I get the kids every other weekend.
> 
> I'm going for joint custody and no spousal support. Wish me luck.


Good luck and glad you exposed.


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## n00b

Wow, teensafe.com works wonders. Just got about 700 texts between my wife and her boyfriend. Confirmation for sure. Then I went by last night with my 15 yo child, we saw them eating dinner together at the table. My daughter was devastated. 

My question is - do I do anything with all of these texts I found out about? Do I say anything about him being in the house? Advice, please!


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## ThreeStrikes

n00b said:


> Wow, teensafe.com works wonders. Just got about 700 texts between my wife and her boyfriend. Confirmation for sure. Then I went by last night with my 15 yo child, we saw them eating dinner together at the table. My daughter was devastated.
> 
> My question is - do I do anything with all of these texts I found out about? Do I say anything about him being in the house? Advice, please!


Check with your lawyer. You may be able to get an order that states she is not to bring OM around your kids until after the D is final.


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## PBear

Talk to your lawyer about them, and use his/her advice. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam

n00b...

Do you live in a no-fault state, or one that allows adultery as grounds for a divorce?

If you live in a state where you can file "grounds", this will make a HUGE difference in your spousal support payments, won't help much with child support.

Keep those texts, print them out, make copies as backups, and save everything to a memory stick as well.

After all your ducks are in a row and you have reached a settlement on YOUR terms, expose, Expose, EXPOSE the truth to everyone you know. And everyone she knows. You can use just the threat of exposure to help you negotiate what you want.

She is in for a rude awakening.


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## n00b

It's a no-fault state. I've told her that "I KNOW" and now she's freaking out, asking how I know and what I know. It's about the most enjoyment I've had out of this.


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## lifeistooshort

Good for you, you deserve to at least get a good laugh out of this whole thing.

And don't tell her specifically what you know, it will drive her crazy thinking about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you shared it with her folks yet?


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## Dyokemm

"I've told her that "I KNOW" and now she's freaking out, asking how I know and what I know. It's about the most enjoyment I've had out of this."

nOOb,

Inform her that her daughter knows as well and what the two of you saw at the house.

Tell her what she did to her daughter when she had to see that POS in her own home, which your WW has now broken to pieces.

Start showing her what she has done to her children and family.

And expose the A to all of your family and friends, as well as your intention to D immediately due to her cheating.

And call OMW to let her know the POS is still with your WW and was in your own home.

Destroy Fantasyland and make her face te harsh reality of what she has become and what she has done to her own family.


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## n00b

I did inform her about my daughter. She said "you guys should have come in, HE was just dropping something off". I told her its unacceptable and I would not let my kids see it. I did let OMW know immediately thereafter - she kicked him out a couple of weeks ago when she first suspected. I have NOT exposed her to too many yet. 

Part of me thinks that may be too destructive for her. Her world just came crashing down this morning when I told her all of this. They had many texts about "their family" - referring to my kids and his kids. I told her to keep him away from the kids and just sign the papers when my attorney makes the changes necessary.

Thank you all for the feedback/support!


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## n00b

I have not told her parents


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## LongWalk

Put OM on Cheaterville. It's a real penis blocker.

OM's wife can put your wife up.

Tell your daughter that her mother will remain her mother and that she should continue to love her mother. Loyalty to you is not something that you need from her. As your child you love her unconditionally.

Cheaterville is a good way to tell her parents. You simply anonymously send the link to someone close to her from a public computer, as a Facebook message.

What did the recovered messages say? Were there references to physical infidelity?


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## Dyokemm

"I have not told her parents"

You should make this your next step.

I firmly believe that people should be called out on their bad choices and behaviors, especially when they are so destructive to families and children.

Sh***y behavior thrives on secrecy and keeping its consequences/ramifications hidden or unspoken.


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## turnera

n00b said:


> I have NOT exposed her to too many yet. Part of me thinks that may be too destructive for her. Her world just came crashing down this morning when I told her all of this. They had many texts about "their family" - referring to my kids and his kids. I told her to keep him away from the kids and just sign the papers when my attorney makes the changes necessary.
> 
> Thank you all for the feedback/support!


Are you divorcing her? Then just walk away.

If you want to save your marriage, you MUST expose to her family and friends if she is refusing to stop seeing him. Please read some of the other threads to see the truth of it - exposure does work. You can't save your marriage until the OM is gone. And exposure makes your wife too hot to handle. Once he is gone, the fog may clear and she may realize what she has done.

What have you got to lose at this point?


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## n00b

To answer a previous question - yes, there were many sexual references. I'm done with her though. She's done this to me twice. Divorce is in the works. Do I still expose? I'm trying to get her to agree on some custody issues and would prefer she not want to kill me until those are signed.


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## turnera

No, if you're divorcing, use the exposure as leverage. Give me what I want or I tell everyone what you were doing.


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## LongWalk

The divorce will probably be very unfavorable to you if she gets majority custody. You will end up providing her with a lifestyle. She will be able to have as many sex partners as her liminal mind desires.

Two of your children can influence a custody decision. At 14 and 12 they are able to express an opinion. A 7-year-old's opinion is usually discounted.

Exposure can ramp up the pressure on her so that she is amenable to a smooth divorce. Being nice to a cheater sometimes pays. You fear she is going to go psycho on you, right?

You are working too much. 

I would suggest that you cut off all funds to her. Make sure she cannot start credit cards or take loans for which you will be responsible. You need to cut her funding down to essentials. 

Who pays the bills?

Who has cell contract?


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## n00b

All funds have been cut off, but I've been ordered to pay CS and SS in the temp orders. Plus, continue to make the house payment (which I am contesting as I don't live there).


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## LongWalk

Do you have rooms for your kids?

Get them asap.

A 14-year-old is going to have some idea about the reason for the divorce. Mom is cheater. Maybe that shouldn't be a secret from them?


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## n00b

my girls share a room and my son has a room. Why do you ask?


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## LongWalk

Can you have them 50% of the time?


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## n00b

I could have them 50% of the time, meaning, I could make it work. My attorney said my chances are slim of getting 50/50 as she's been a stay at home mom for 16 years and has very little income. I've got a good number of days agreed upon with the kids, so I think it will be fine.


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## Thound

N00B The man with the big brass balls. You sir have shown what it takes to be a man. I salute you sir.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## n00b

Thound - what am I doing that warrants big brass balls? lol


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## Thound

n00b said:


> Thound - what am I doing that warrants big brass balls? lol


You didnt cry and beg her to stay. Her cheating was a deal breaker and you dealt with it. No pansy promises and sweet talk. I would have been a puddle oh sh1t if it were me. I hope not, but I dont know how I would have handled it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## n00b

Thanks  It's been rough, believe me. Once I saw what was in those text messages, feelings of love were gone. My concern now is their "plan" together... If this guy becomes my kids' step-dad, God only knows what will happen.


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## 3Xnocharm

n00b, be honest with your kids about the whole thing. Dont go into gory detail, but kids need honesty to feel safe. Just think about their anger with BOTH of you once they find out you were keeping secrets. I know my 17yr old would go apesh!t on me for that!


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## turnera

Yes, they need to know that this man isn't to be trusted.


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## n00b

This last week has been rough. More people know the real situation now, and she's been confronted about it. She of course, blames me. I honestly quoted lines from the text last night about him stretching her out and how much they love each other, on and on. She was silent, then said "I don't know what else to say". I said, sign the papers when they show up so we can be done. Then she asked if I'd told her parents. I said no, but I will if you don't tell them yourself in the next couple of days. 

I had to point out that I was not in the wrong. I HAD to talk to someone about her infidelity. I said, you're banging another guy and I'm supposed to sit quietly and wait? Then of course, she denies having sex with him, even though they talk about the details in the text messages. 

I'm at the point where I find her denial humorous. I'm just downright flabbergasted by it. Wish me luck that the paperwork gets agreed upon this time.


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## Dyokemm

"Then of course, she denies having sex with him, even though they talk about the details in the text messages."

Typical lying WS....they NEVER want to admit what they are doing.

And that's why she is worried about what you told her parents.

If you let her do it, she will never admit what she has done to them and will paint you as a monster.

They will hate you very soon....be prepared for it.

Of course, you could (and I think should) tell them about the A and your plans to D yourself.

Make her face what she has done to your M and her children's lives.


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## LongWalk

> I honestly quoted lines from the text last night about him stretching her out and how much they love each other, on and on. She was silent, then said "I don't know what else to say".


She should have said that you are good with technology. By the way, OM may or may not have been sexually different. She is telling him what he wants to hear. May or may not be true. Cheaters lie about all sorts of things.


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## turnera

I would tell her parents anyway; they need to understand why their SIL is leaving.


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## LongWalk

Hope she understood that not cooperating will give you an incentive to expose her. 

Do you feel you are getting a fair settlement?

Your WW is probably starting to realize that she has damaged herself by being a liar exposed. Some day she has to explain to more that just her parents.


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## LongWalk

Use that VAR


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## sammy3

I am amazed and shocked how the same story can have such different view!!!!

-sammy


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## Dyokemm

nOOb,

Did she sign the paperwork like you demanded?


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