# She wants our son to meet her bf



## Lon

Tonight my ex asked me if she could take our son to the indoor playground he loves next weekend for a couple hours when I have him next weekend, and she wants to introduce him to her current bf. Ugh, I hate it. I'm glad she asked me, and I think she's been seeing the guy since at least January, I suppose she sees it as long term, but why the F would I give up my time with him so he can meet this guy?? I haven't replied to her text yet, but I know exactly why, its cause he is from out of town, and this way he can come down spend the day and night with her and feel like she is putting a family together. I think I'm going to say no, that I appreciate her asking but would prefer if she introduced him when she has custody and also remind her of no overnight visits with my son there as per the agreement.

Sorry just had to vent this. I'm open to any criticisms or comments.


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## Dollystanford

I think that's absolutely fair enough - nice to see she's only thinking of herself!

and what a kid does not need is to see mummy with a string of different boyfriends so hope she doesn't treat this one like sh*t too...but it's unlikely isn't it

ugh some women are such self obsessed nightmares


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## Lon

I think she has been careful so far to not introduce any of the string of casual encounters or whatever she has been up to, to our son. Its just this is the first one she feels is committed enough, I just don't understand how this is her preferred option, to have them meet now, when she doesn't have to introduce them. She is specifically wanting to introduce them. I presume this guy is going to be in her life on a consistent basis for some time, so i understand that inevitably they will meet and be around each other. Yet still it doesn't sit right with me. I suppose I could use this as an opportunity to meet this guy (not that I really want to) but I'm assuming that since my ex wants this she is eyeing him up as a potential stepfather for my child. Maybe that is over-dramatic, but overdramatic seems to be her new way. And as his mother she has the right to raise him according to how she sees fit too. this just kinda sucks. I think I will just tell her no, not on my time.


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## EleGirl

Dollystanford said:


> I think that's absolutely fair enough - nice to see she's only thinking of herself!
> 
> and what a kid does not need is to see mummy with a string of different boyfriends so hope she doesn't treat this one like sh*t too...but it's unlikely isn't it
> 
> ugh some women are such self obsessed nightmares


It's not only woman who can be self obsessed nightmares. There are just as many men who are just as bad.


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## EleGirl

I agree with you. There is no way that you should give up your time with your son so that your wife and have him meet a man she’s been dating for a very short time. Since it’s a long distance relationship their dating history is even less than if they lived in the same town and could see a lot of each other.

A child should not be brought into parent’s dating relationship until the parent has decided to marry the person they are dating. This is all just very wrong.


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## Dollystanford

EleGirl said:


> It's not only woman who can be self obsessed nightmares. There are just as many men who are just as bad.


I don't deny it - I was married to one....


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## arbitrator

Lon said:


> I think I will just tell her no, not on my time.


Lon: You're totally justified in the stance you have taken. It's bad enough that she wants your child to meet her latest "Stage-Door Johnny!" It's even worse that she want's to do this on your watch.

I absolutely support your stance on this 110%!


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## notreadytoquit

Tell her you already have plans for your son and you. Its not your problem he is from out of town.


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## Shaggy

Why would you do anything. Anything at all to help her with anything she wants. The default answer should always simply be no unless it benefits you and your son.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Paradise

I went through the same thing about 8 months ago. Yes, it does suck very much and it will be hurtful to you. However, part of the divorced life that she has chosen is not being able to see her kid at certain times and this would be one of them. 

I don't play the "I have something planned" card. I just politely say no. I'm not going to make sh!t up or start playing games. Why should I ever have to explain myself? Not happening. My ex gave up that right a long time ago when she dropped her panties for another dude(s). 

Sorry for the rant, but this is one topic that really bothers me since my ex and her affair partner moved in together 5 or 6 months after the divorce.


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## LovesHerMan

Given her history of selfishness and manipulation, I would not let her intrude into your time with your son. She lost the right to consideration from you, and you should show her the strong, confident Lon that you have become. It's all about you now. F her and her demands.


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## nice777guy

Just playing Devil's Advocate here - but I keep thinking that if this introduction is truly inevitable - is there some benefit to letting her do this and Knowing this initial visit will be limited to just an hour or so?

But - then again - if your son gets upset about it later and starts asking questions, that really shouldn't fall on your shoulders.

Just a little food for thought...


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## EleGirl

nice777guy said:


> Just playing Devil's Advocate here - but I keep thinking that if this introduction is truly inevitable - is there some benefit to letting her do this and Knowing this initial visit will be limited to just an hour or so?
> 
> But - then again - if your son gets upset about it later and starts asking questions, that really shouldn't fall on your shoulders.
> 
> Just a little food for thought...


The introduction is not inevitable. There is a high possibility that this relationsihp will not last all that long. So delying the introduction is a good idea.


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## nice777guy

EleGirl said:


> The introduction is not inevitable. There is a high possibility that this relationsihp will not last all that long. So delying the introduction is a good idea.


But you can only delay it a week - assuming she has him the following weekend. Right?

And even if every poster here agrees that she isnt going to marry this guy - all that matters is what she thinks - right or wrong.

As a "co-parent" - you can only do so much to protect your children from your Ex. Sadly - that was one of my motivations for wanting to stay married. I thought if we all still lived together, I'd have a bit more control over things. 

Bottom line though - Lon - your time is your time. Say no and offer no reasons if that's what you feel is right.


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## Deejo

Tell her you appreciate the information, but no, and if she is foolish enough to ask 'Why?' A look and a head-shake should suffice.

She is free to make introductions on her own time.

Only time I make such exceptions is in the case of something our kids already have scheduled.


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## that_girl

You are very right to say no. Politely remind her it's YOUR day.


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## Lon

well it went pretty much like how you guys all said. I just told her (via text since virtually ALL our communication is via text) that we had plans (cause we actually do, a birthday party for one of my son's daycare buddies) and also told her that I'm not going to lose time with my son just so he can spend it with her bf. She replied: then I will have to be ok with him being there overnight the same time as her bf cause he lives outta town. I said no I'm not fine with that I expect her to follow the written agreement, no overnight visits, that its not me or my son's fault her bf lives outta town. She said she understands and I left it at that.

We do have it in our written agreement that our son can know our relationship partners but there are no overnights and no displays of affection in front of him. I think she is just jaded that the only time this guy gets to see her when she has our son is when he comes for a visit, and since he's coming all this way he needs a place to stay. If it comes to it I'll suggest a hotel.


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## nice777guy

A hotel sounds perfect.

Sorry you're still having to deal with this crap.


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## Wheels65

> Tonight my ex asked me if she could take our son to the indoor playground he loves next weekend for a couple hours when I have him next weekend, and she wants to introduce him to her current bf.


F that man, just don't do it. You are his dad and he deserves his time with you.

Just read it all, sorry that just ignited my fraternal rights and passion.

Make her stick to the agreements, don't take ANY crap from her.


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## Lon

The thing is, if she wanted to take him once in awhile to the playground, even on my days, he would love it. However there is absolutely no reason her bf has to be there. It leads me to believe she just wants to "make introductions" as Deejo suggested. There is no reason to, certainly if so then she will have to figure out how to do it on her own days with him, and still follow our quite reasonable agreement about how to deal with our mutual child and new partners.


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## ing

Your Day. = No.

Kids need routine. It is about the only security they have left with their parents. 
I can imagine the conversation though.. 
"Lon. You really have to get over this.. You need therapy. You are so mean."
It is all about power over you and NOTHING to do with the wishes of your kid.

Now your divorced you only need to consider it as if any other person asked. Is this a reasonable request by a person to ask to take your kid on your day?

Fast forward to Fck off.


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## keko

Lon said:


> We do have it in our written agreement that our son can know our relationship partners but there are no overnights and no displays of affection in front of him. I think she is just jaded that the only time this guy gets to see her when she has our son is when he comes for a visit, and since he's coming all this way he needs a place to stay. If it comes to it I'll suggest a hotel.


Since she mentioned he was coming, do you have any way of cheking if he will indeed stay overnight?


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## Lon

keko said:


> Since she mentioned he was coming, do you have any way of cheking if he will indeed stay overnight?


Not really, She is actually a pretty bad liar when I ask her something straight out, my best bet is probably asking unexpectedly, in person or by phone the best. I am not going to stalk her or drive by her house... She does live on the other side of town. We have an agreement and she seems to understand it, but that's just a guess. If she gets a taste of cheating her way around it in her mind she won't stop herself. There is not really a way to enforce this except if I find out to make this a living nightmare for her bf. I don't want to sabotage her personal business at all, but if I suspect there is a man there I will call her out on it, call her roommate out for the truth, and if there is some evidence call the sherrifs office to help me enforce the agreement (ie the OM leaves the premises or I take my son with me until he does). If I catch her breaking the rules I will just try to make it an unpleasant situation as possible.


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## keko

You dont want to sabotage her personal business but she wanted you to give up your own time. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deejo

I'll follow up on this from the perspective of being more than 3 years out.

It changes. Eventually, you're going to want to amend or simply ignore that agreement.

There is a difference between when you are still caught up in the raw emotions of a failed marriage, or betrayal, to when the arc of your life, and what your ex is doing with theirs simply doesn't impact you the same.

My kids have been on the Cape with my ex and her bf since Thursday of last week. He and I are civil. I know without question that this guy loves my ex, and loves my kids. And they care for him too. Whacky as it sounds, I actually
take a degree of comfort from that knowledge. Whereas if I knew her love life was a revolving door, it would be very different. Oddly, that's where she is at with me  Of the 14 women that I have dated, or been more involved with since we parted ways, my kids have met 2 of them, and at that, only briefly.

Do I approve of how their relationship began? No. No I don't. But as I have said in the past, there comes a point where an affair is no longer an affair, and it simply becomes a run of the mill relationship. And as long as that doesn't affect my children negatively, than I'm fine with it.

I understand where you're at. Believe me. And I'm not saying now ... but over time your perspective may change.


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## Lon

Deejo, I understand you quite clearly, I think. To be clear, I don't consider this this bf of hers an AP. She never had any intentions of R with me and I let go and sought divorce long before she met this one. I believe her intent is long term with this one, and so I at some point if this guy is a good person he will want to discover the whole package and know her (our) son and see what kind of mother she is to him, he needs to know what he is buying into.

I am not trying to deny my ex W the right to move on at all, I can't control her behavior nor do I want to. As far as I can tell she dated many different men since separating with me and I don't believe she has ever violated our agreement in terms of our son. I think she has found one she wants to keep, problem for me is I have no way to comprehend what that means to her - does she want to keep him for a year? two? Marry him or move in? She probably doesn't even know herself, however what I've learned about her is that she changes her mind rapidly and frequently. This guy may be the most serious one she's had, may even be "the one" in her mind but I've seen how that works for her and generally it means temporary.

So I think my strategy is to delay it as much as I can, for the benefit of my son, because the longer I can keep my son away from her possible temporary committment the better chance he has at not seeing, and getting attached to, men coming in and out of my ex's life. I will delay this the two ways I can, by not forfeiting my time with him, and by staying on top of our current agreement. If this OM is a good (as I can only hope he is) then he will respect my son and the way I raise him, and will find a way to be introduced to my son that doesn't involve sleeping at his house or causing confusion or overwhelming feelings of insecurity in him.


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## Deejo

I should have been clearer.

When I said, "Do I approve of how their relationship began ..." I was referring to my ex and her bf.

I think you are handling things just fine.


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## lostdad

At least your ex told you she was going to make the introduction. I heard about my 4 year old meeting the affair partner from the 4 year old.

But it absolutely should not be on your time. Your time is your time end of story.


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## Shooboomafoo

I didnt get a choice. Not I guess that I should have had one, but one would hope they could rely on their ex's dignity and parenting sense not to move a guy in 3 months after Daddy moves out.
But oh well. 
All introductions aside, come move on in!!


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## Lon

update:

So my son is with my ex this weekend and I got a text message from her that they are going to the city her bf lives in to visit a couple that used to be mutual friends with us (actually friends of mine from school I introduced her to long time ago, they ended up hitting it off) and also to see my ex's new BF (with my son present).

Fine, what can I do. except she's staying overnight and I asked her if she was planning to stay at her bf's with our son. She said yes but the bf is sleeping on the couch and her and my son will be in his bed. I remind her we agreed to no overnights in our separation agreement. She replied that this isn't an "adult" overnight and that she wouldn't do anything inappropriate (like I trust her judgement!? I guess I have to as we have joint custody).

So I asked her what her long term intentions are with him and mentioned the agreement was so that our son didn't develop attachment to people who may end up abandoning them. I told her if she sees him as eventually becoming a stepfather to our son then to proceed, but that our son is intuitive enough to see the significance of this partner. I asked her if she had any girlfriend's she could stay at instead.

Then she discloses that my son talks to the bf EVERY DAY already on skype and has already built an apparently good relationship with him, and that my son "already knows they are a couple" and that this is a natural step.

Fck I am livid about this... Yes I understand this is a serious relationship for her, but the guy lives in another city, I suspect they have been together since january, I haven't asked for details but she hasn't disclosed anything to me.

I told her that this information is important for me to know because I haven't even had a chance to talk to our son about his mother and I moving on with other partners. Feels like I have been left out in the cold in my own sons life.

Then she goes to lecture me about understanding how it must feel scary for me and it has been a slow and gradual introduction, and that she will "always protect our son". That is bullsh!t, it is not fear it is out of responsibility to my son's best interests. And based on what I know, I don't understand why any introduction was necessary at all, and thus not appropriate. I can't even decide what is in my son's best interest because I wasn't informed of his relationship to my ex's bf, and now that I know I am not even happy about it.

How much am I wrong for thinking this whole thing is inappropriate? I mean I know I'd have to deal with this sooner or later and hoped it would be later, but the time is now already. I am stuck and really don't know what I should do here... I mean if I was onboard with this relationship and knew the guy wanted to step into my son's life as a parent figure shouldn't he have made an effort to contact me or know where my son is the other half of the time? Perhaps I am not wrong for assuming he just is in it for sex, though sounds like if he is spending time daily he can commit?

The vague part of our separation agreement is that the no overnights were allowed until the relationship became "serious" and I just don't trust her judgement as to what that means exactly. Obviously it should have been more specific, but at a certain point you just can't legislate against stupidity.

It's like deejo said in another thread, she hasn't moved forward she has only stepped sideways and convinced herself she has moved forward, unfortunately my son has to get caught up in that. Or maybe, just maybe she has moved forwards and she is the rational one here? This fcking sucks.


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## keko

Aside from it being inappropriate or not, legally can you do anything if he does spend the night at bf's house? (since you have a seperation agreement stating otherwise)


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## Shaggy

Lon, your ex is incredibly selfish and lacking empathy. I'm sorry, this dies suck, but it is entirely in keeping with her selfish way of using the other people in thr world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

There isn't really any teeth to the agreement. I could bring the agreement to the sherriff though and have him removed from the house and given in to my custody or else my ex leaves in order to meet the agreement. But that would be somewhat traumatic to my son I think.

As to her selfishness, apparently my in laws have now met him and she thinks everyone everyone gets along great with him. Her step mom give me a knowing look but her dad is not going to get involved and believes where my son is concerned she takes her role as mom seriously. I just honestly don't trust her judgements with relationships, but there is nothing I can do because she doesn't require my trust to do whatever she wants to do.


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## keko

Spending a night might be not too bad but regular Skype calls are way over the line. You need to put a stop to it before it gets even worse. It seems your ex is falling deeper into the fog and needs a hard shock to come to senses.

Try searching other people with similar situation in your province and what they have done, etc.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear

keko said:


> Spending a night might be not too bad but regular Skype calls are way over the line. You need to put a stop to it before it gets even worse. It seems your ex is falling deeper into the fog and needs a hard shock to come to senses.
> 
> Try searching other people with similar situation in your province and what they have done, etc.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good luck with that. You don't control anyone, particularly not an ex-spouse. The time for a "hard shock" is likely past. And considering the relationship is out in the open, any threats would be rather meaningless.

Lon, I don't know what your answer is, aside from trying to get your ex to understand you just want what's best for your son. Sucks, but there you go. I think you're right that trying to enforce any sort agreement may be more damaging than the relationship itself.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

maybe its not such a bad relationship, I obviously don't have nearly enough information to form an accurate opinion of the guy. But if my ex was acting with our son's best interest in mind I don't think it would matter. She expects us to both be able to trust each other in our parenting, thing is she lost my trust and has done nothing to restore it so I don't.

Thing is I also suspect she has been telling my son to not talk about certain things with me, for instance my son kept mentioning "church kindergaten" and when I asked he looked troubled and confused and would want to talk about it then stop himself. Finally I asked him if mommy told him to not tell me and he said yes, I told him she is not allowed to tell him that and that he could tell me anything, so he did and he went on and on about them walking there, going with grandpa, playing with the toys and talking about jesus.

So I asked the ex if they had been going to church and she said yes, he was going to sunday school - just one other example about me being left out in the cold in regards to my son's life. I did not confront her on asking him to lie to me yet. I don't mind him going to sunday school at all, I don't want him indoctrinated but I am glad he is learning some bible stories, for some reason I suppose my ex thought I'd be offended and disagree?


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## arbitrator

Lon: Her notable brazenness in doing this either makes me think that your STBXW is either stupid or is just arrogant, even in the eyes of the law. By her putting this in a written format, albeit by text message, she has now created a paper trail of her actions that flies in the face of the mandated precepts of the separation agreement.

In essence, she has given her attorney a new issue that he must now offer defense to, whether he wants to or not. In the greater scheme of things, when your attorney passes this very same info on to the Court, I would fully expect that both your wife and her counsel will be severely admonished by the Court for having broken the agreement, probably to the effect that your counsel could ask for a reversal of temporary orders allowing you to be the temporary conservator of your son at least up until the issuance of the final custodial decree. And quite frankly, it could very well end up getting you permanent custody!

This idiocy on the part of your STBXW does not bode well for her in the least, and I would greatly advise you to let your legal counsel take fast advantage of it!


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## Lon

Arbitrator, divorce is done, custody is settled, our agreement became part of the decree, nothing temporary in place so for me to take legal action would require me to initiate. I don't think its arrogance much, possibly a little stupidity/naivity... I have no intention to judge her or her relationship only the job she is doing as a mother, and frankly she is unable to separate the roles of protector to son and involvement in her relationship - so of course to her it feels natural that our son is becoming part of this man's world because she is becoming part of his world. Yet she hasn't given me one shred of information about the level of committment he has to her other than telling me "its serious" and that her family has met him and they "get along great" (I assume by this she meant our son and her dad/stepmom).

I am just angry that I have intentionally been left out in the cold about my son. As usual I didn't make enough demands that way I guess, I honestly have been pretty much only contacting her concerning our son because I have detached from her and really don't care about her, but since she is unable to separate her roles obviously it means I will have to be a controlling bstard from now on just to protect my son from being set up with emotional risks.

It is becoming more clear to me that she IS selfish, to the point that she doesn't even want to see, or can't see, that her choices are almost entirely about her and our son is just going to have to live with it, she is not putting his emotional needs ahead of her own desires. And he will bear the suffering over the course of his lifetime over it. No matter if I ever pursue full custody or not (the thought of stealing him from his mom, sickens me, I honestly think it would cause him even more suffering than the future attachment issues he may have if his mom has a series of "serious" relationships with different men, but then that is just being "insecure" and pessimistic of me to assume that all her relationships including this one she's in now would fail, right?)


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## arbitrator

Lon said:


> Arbitrator, divorce is done, custody is settled, our agreement became part of the decree, nothing temporary in place so for me to take legal action would require me to initiate. I don't think its arrogance much, possibly a little stupidity/naivity... I have no intention to judge her or her relationship only the job she is doing as a mother, and frankly she is unable to separate the roles of protector to son and involvement in her relationship - so of course to her it feels natural that our son is becoming part of this man's world because she is becoming part of his world. Yet she hasn't given me one shred of information about the level of committment he has to her other than telling me "its serious" and that her family has met him and they "get along great" (I assume by this she meant our son and her dad/stepmom).
> 
> I am just angry that I have intentionally been left out in the cold about my son. As usual I didn't make enough demands that way I guess, I honestly have been pretty much only contacting her concerning our son because I have detached from her and really don't care about her, but since she is unable to separate her roles obviously it means I will have to be a controlling bstard from now on just to protect my son from being set up with emotional risks.
> 
> It is becoming more clear to me that she IS selfish, to the point that she doesn't even want to see, or can't see, that her choices are almost entirely about her and our son is just going to have to live with it, she is not putting his emotional needs ahead of her own desires. And he will bear the suffering over the course of his lifetime over it. No matter if I ever pursue full custody or not (the thought of stealing him from his mom, sickens me, I honestly think it would cause him even more suffering than the future attachment issues he may have if his mom has a series of "serious" relationships with different men, but then that is just being "insecure" and pessimistic of me to assume that all her relationships including this one she's in now would fail, right?)


Lon: My apologies for miscomprehending the stage of divorce that you were in. But despite the presence of a final decree of divorce with an attached custody ruling, it does not set aside the fact that your ex-wife has clearly violated the spirit of the order of the court. And until such time that she marries again, that order would be valid and enforceable.

The only defense, provided you want to call it that, that I can see is that she will say that she left your son at her friends even though she stayed at her BF's pad. If so, that's more than verifiable! And should the information come back to the Court in the contrary, then she's looking at not only having violated the Court's original order, but perjury with a prejudicial order of the Court as well. That would largely open the door for your attorney to file for custody of your son and thus place her on the defensive as to have to testify before the Court to your unfitness to be the custodial parent. And she could richly be cross-examined about the aforementioned situation, which in all liklihood could be used to impeach her credibility.

I hope you made your attorney more than aware of this! I really think that she has opened the door for you now! Best of luck to you!


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## keko

PBear said:


> Good luck with that. You don't control anyone, particularly not an ex-spouse. The time for a "hard shock" is likely past. And considering the relationship is out in the open, any threats would be rather meaningless.
> 
> Lon, I don't know what your answer is, aside from trying to get your ex to understand you just want what's best for your son. Sucks, but there you go. I think you're right that trying to enforce any sort agreement may be more damaging than the relationship itself.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No, never meant for Lon to control the ex, rather enforce a written agreement which can be pushed to a certain degree. Im no professional but please explain to me how a young kid being exposed to a male other then his father, on daily bases would do him any good? What if there is a new guy tomorrow and the same cycle continue's with him as well? I think the focus should be on the mental health of the kid rather then "controlling" an ex. Lon has more then enough reasons to pull a few strings before ex's behavior gets damaging to the kid.


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## Lon

My focus is the mental well being of my child and also sorting out my own mental well being so I have an appropriate grip on this.

In this case, there won't be a new guy "tomorrow" but in a couple months from now?? Who knows. I think that is why I'd like a statement of intent from her as to this relationship, so that if it does fall apart next week I have something to show her how wreckless she is being with our child's mental well-being, and also for herself to ponder where this is going before feeling obliged to make him part of my son's life.

I honestly don't care at all about my ex's relationships, I only care about my son's, problem is her and I don't see eye to eye on this obviously, and now I'm seeing that her morals are quite different than mine, how do you raise a child in split homes that have two sets of morals?

For her morals it seems that as long as a man is monogamous and decent then he should automatically be a part of his life... I guess cause she thinks of herself as a "package deal" well if that's the case then I guess I, even as her ex, am part of that package too. To me a monogamous decent guy is a good first step, I don't mind him even being introduced to my son I think it's important, and even to get to know my son enough to decide if its part of the package deal he wants to sign up for life... but it has to be a one-way deal, my son is only 5 and has no concept of sex, adult relationships and that this man he is now becoming close to will have to cut all ties to him should my ex's relationship terminate.

My biggest concern as to the future of my child's relationship to this guy is, since he lives in another city 300km away, does he plan to move here and are they planning to move in together? Is it reasonable to "demand" that unless she knows the answer to this question and unless the answer to is yes, then to suggest my son have no more escalated contact with this guy?


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## keko

Just wondering does your divorce decree have a clause regarding how far/when a spouse can relocate? Is a permission needed? Will the child move as well? Who will cover the travel costs for visitation's?


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## arbitrator

keko said:


> Just wondering does your divorce decree have a clause regarding how far/when a spouse can relocate? Is a permission needed? Will the child move as well? Who will cover the travel costs for visitation's?


Most states have provisions that are either already in place or can be put into place that restricts the child's mobility outside of the state lines without either the courts written approval or the non-possessory parent's approval. And as long as either of the divorcing parents remain within the state of divorce, that particular court will not concede jurisdiction in the matter unless there is a joint request by both parents to do so!

There are usually guidelines that are set up by each each state in regard as to who will pay for the travel and other related expenses, in the absence of any working agreement between the two parties.


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## Lon

keko said:


> Just wondering does your divorce decree have a clause regarding how far/when a spouse can relocate? Is a permission needed? Will the child move as well? Who will cover the travel costs for visitation's?


There is a clause in decree, 30km if I remember, plus I think there is also provincial/federal law that one spouse is not allowed to remove the child without good reason to show it is in the child's best interest. Considering this is joint custody it will never happen (especially considering we moved away from the city her new bf lives in when our child was born in order to be closer to her parents who live here). And if she threatens anything of the sort I will counter-threaten to fight for sole custody and indicate my interest to be closer to MY parents in B.C. (If she moves my son away from this city I will have no other relatives here, err wait my brother who just moved out here for work is still here).

Travel cost for visitations has not been addressed, especially as we entered into a split custody agreement so there is no "visitation" at this point.


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## arbitrator

Lon: I take it that both cities are in Canada then? If so, in different provinces? Does divorce law there fall under the provincial code or the Canadian Federal code?


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## Lon

yes, same province too, SK. If this were out of province there is also a federal law that prohibits allowing the child out of province without mutua/full custodial consent.

also, she is going on vacation with our son to BC to visit her brother in another month and they have plans to do a road trip to the US. SO my ex recently filled out a passport application for my son and asked me to sign next week... I reluctantly agreed but haven't actually signed it yet... I am beginning to question if I even want her taking him out of the country, I don't suspect she is going to do anything crazy but I just don't have any trust in her so can't really make that call... I feel like I'm being so paranoid.


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## joe kidd

Lon it sounds as if you are going to have to be the boys anchor. If you remain a steady and reliable influence in his life he should be ok.


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## keko

Lon said:


> There is a clause in decree, 30km if I remember, plus I think there is also provincial/federal law that one spouse is not allowed to remove the child without good reason to show it is in the child's best interest. Considering this is joint custody it will never happen (especially considering we moved away from the city her new bf lives in when our child was born in order to be closer to her parents who live here). And if she threatens anything of the sort I will counter-threaten to fight for sole custody and indicate my interest to be closer to MY parents in B.C. (If she moves my son away from this city I will have no other relatives here, err wait my brother who just moved out here for work is still here).
> 
> Travel cost for visitations has not been addressed, especially as we entered into a split custody agreement so there is no "visitation" at this point.


This may be counter-productive in the short term but consider this, let her move away without your permission or the courts then after she makes the move go after her through legal channels to increase your custodial time.

Either way start reading ins and outs of your province's divorce laws and memorize them. Learn each and every possibility in different situtations so you wont be too slow/weak to react.


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## arbitrator

Lon said:


> yes, same province too, SK. If this were out of province there is also a federal law that prohibits allowing the child out of province without mutua/full custodial consent.
> 
> also, she is going on vacation with our son to BC to visit her brother in another month and they have plans to do a road trip to the US. SO my ex recently filled out a passport application for my son and asked me to sign next week... I reluctantly agreed but haven't actually signed it yet... I am beginning to question if I even want her taking him out of the country, I don't suspect she is going to do anything crazy but I just don't have any trust in her so can't really make that call... I feel like I'm being so paranoid.


Strange you should say that. Two summers ago, I took my sons on a long roadtrip to North Dakota to visit their grandfather(their Mom's Dad). We drove up to the Peace Garden where we went right through the American customs and then turned left into the Peace Gardens. Spent the better part of the day there before departing. On our way out, passing back through U. S. Customs we were summarily stopped and asked for passports. We didn't have them! Then they took my College aged son's and my Texas drivers licences. The younger one had no ID whatsoever. They did a computer check on our DL's and we were both good, but there was some question about my younger son. The initial officer seemed to be a hardass, but his lady supervisor entered the fray, came out, looked at Mike, saw his fast resemblence to me and said "Go on through, he's definitely yours! Just bring passports for everybody next time." Then she told me about them having to police people smuggling kids through both countries using the Peace Gardens as a buffer.

Guess we were just fortunate to get to keep Mike with us that day! But then again, if they would have, they would have had to keep Dad there too!


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## Lon

There is good advice here... just so I'm not painting the picture of her as an immature little princess who has no people skills, its quite the opposite, she has a great relationship with our son, I think she isn't the most enthusiastic about "parenting" but I know she loves him and takes care of his physical and emotional needs. People LOVE her, she has a warm personality, I suspect she just has an underlying esteem problem, her mother passed away from cancer and she has no "motherly" role models to look up to. If it were just her and him I trust her completely with my son, its her spontaneity and way she enters into and terminates relationships that concerns me about my son.

But as Joe mentioned, I can be his anchor, and if her decisions result in harm it means I can fight for more custody.

I don't think much harm will come of this visit this weekend, nor of my son's "friendship" with her bf, its just that I know she is unable to see hazards until she is in the midst of them, foreplanning is not something she understands well. I don't think she holds too much contempt for me and I don't think she has any intent to break any laws, and I know she believes everything she is doing is right and appropriate. Now, anytime I disagree with her she doesn't realize its because morally we have diverged from the path we used to be on together, and instead of considering that she may be in the wrong she will just assume I am reacting out of fear.

Sorry this is turning into more of a vent than it is seeking advice, though I am finding use in every suggestion on here so please let me know if there is anything else I should be considering.


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## Lon

yeah last time I was out of the country was LONG time ago, before anyone needed passport to go to the US (so before 9/11 I guess). I have never even had a passport, lol.


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## arbitrator

Lon said:


> yeah last time I was out of the country was LONG time ago, before anyone needed passport to go to the US (so before 9/11 I guess). I have never even had a passport, lol.


I've got one but have only used it three times, to my knowledge. 

Anyway, just get yourself some insurance and colatteral from her to make sure that her intentions are strictly honorable. And then you may well have to have an attorney do that for you!


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## DaKarmaTrain!

Hi Lon, my STBXW starting bringing a guy around my kids roughly a week after we split. She met this guy at a bar. Their relationship is purely sexual. This guy wound up telling my daughter off once because my 14yr old stood up to him because her fVcked-up mom was complaining she felt like she was being used because this guy only ever wanted sex and they never dated, went anywhere etc.

I want to just spit on my ex.


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## arbitrator

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Hi Lon, my STBXW starting bringing a guy around my kids roughly a week after we split. She met this guy at a bar. Their relationship is purely sexual. This guy wound up telling my daughter off once because my 14yr old stood up to him because her fVcked-up mom was complaining she felt like she was being used because this guy only ever wanted sex and they never dated, went anywhere etc.
> 
> I want to just spit on my ex.



You need to go after custody of your kids, DaKarma! Your STBXW is definitely no role model for them!


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## notreadytoquit

Lon said:


> yes, same province too, SK. If this were out of province there is also a federal law that prohibits allowing the child out of province without mutua/full custodial consent.
> 
> also, she is going on vacation with our son to BC to visit her brother in another month and they have plans to do a road trip to the US. SO my ex recently filled out a passport application for my son and asked me to sign next week... I reluctantly agreed but haven't actually signed it yet... I am beginning to question if I even want her taking him out of the country, I don't suspect she is going to do anything crazy but I just don't have any trust in her so can't really make that call... I feel like I'm being so paranoid.


Hi Lon,
I am in CAnada too. My ex who is Canadian lives in the US and my son is dual citizen. Every time he takes the child across the border I have to write him a letter giving him permission to do so. I even have that in my child custody agreement. The laws between US and Canada are pretty similar when it comes to one parent abducting the child so you don't have to worry about that. Now if you think she is crazy enough to take off to some country far away from Canada then I would not sign the passport. I think they just recently changed the form so both parents have to sign for a childs passport. 

Where abouts are you in Canada?


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## Lon

Hi NR2Q, after going through this all in my mind, I am certain she would never abduct him... also she has become more reliant on her father and stepmom and they would never leave or let her take my son away from here especially without my permission.

I just am finding myself re-questioning everything since I was certain about lots of things that she would or wouldn't do... that betrayal of trust from over a year ago does so much more damage than not having trust in the first place. All along I felt she was trustworthy with our child, but then this incident, plus also finding out that she is having him hide truth from me is making me wary again.

So as much as I disapprove of her letting my child form a relationship with her bf without some kind of assurance that its not a temporary thing, I am not going to stress about an abduction scenario.


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## Lon

DKT, it is crazy what your W is doing. It is unbelievable how wrapped up these cheaters can get in their own sexual universe, to the point where they can't even see the detriment they are causing their children.

Like Arb says, you should fight for custody, and now while your STBXW is so focused on this OM and herself may give you a lot of leverage as to how much she really wants to be a parent. If you got the cards and you play them right she just may willingly give up custody and it would enable to to avoid a lot of the problems of co-parenting with her.


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## keko

Lon, have you and your ex been to those co-parenting seminar's? Im not sure how it is up in Canada but in some states it is mandatory before divorce for both parents to take parenting classes.


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## Lon

It's not mandatory, the mediation place we consulted with makes it mandatory if we went through mediation but we chose not to go through mediation since we really didn't have any sticking points in our agreement.

That is a very good suggestion and I will ask her if she is willing to go if I do. (We would go separate, but would still be useful to know if we are on the same page or not).


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## Shooboomafoo

I think you are right on Lon about her doing her thing on her time. Why the heck would she schedule some b.s. on your days with the kid? Sounds extremely inconsiderate and borderline purposeful.

My kid has already met the OM. Especially since he lives with her now over at her moms house. Her family has all been introduced, friends have all been introduced, the dude's just been slipped right into place, never missing a beat. 
Thats alright though. Craziness and instability makes no home for anyone. 
I got a txt from my 10yr old at about 12:30am Friday night, her mom had taken her to a concert.


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## keko

Shooboomafoo said:


> I got a txt from my 10yr old at about 12:30am Friday night, her mom had taken her to a concert.


WTF? 

I hope you're keeping a record of these, one day you might need them to prove "mom" is unfit to be a mother.


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## DaKarmaTrain!

arbitrator said:


> You need to go after custody of your kids, DaKarma! Your STBXW is definitely no role model for them!


Funny you mention that 

On April 19 Children's Aid awarded me temporary custody of my children due to her erratic behaviours.

2 weeks ago I began court proceedings to go for full custody. I am representing myself (no money!) but think I have a decent shot...Childrens Aid has a file on her as thick as a New York phone book :smthumbup:


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## DaKarmaTrain!

keko said:


> Lon, have you and your ex been to those co-parenting seminar's? Im not sure how it is up in Canada but in some states it is mandatory before divorce for both parents to take parenting classes.


Yup, mandatory here...actually doing mine tomorrow afternoon.


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## arbitrator

DaKarmaTrain! said:


> Funny you mention that
> 
> On April 19 Children's Aid awarded me temporary custody of my children due to her erratic behaviours.
> 
> 2 weeks ago I began court proceedings to go for full custody. I am representing myself (no money!) but think I have a decent shot...Childrens Aid has a file on her as thick as a New York phone book :smthumbup:


There you go! Atta boy!


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## DaKarmaTrain!

Lon said:


> DKT, it is crazy what your W is doing. It is unbelievable how wrapped up these cheaters can get in their own sexual universe, to the point where they can't even see the detriment they are causing their children.
> 
> Like Arb says, you should fight for custody, and now while your STBXW is so focused on this OM and herself may give you a lot of leverage as to how much she really wants to be a parent. If you got the cards and you play them right she just may willingly give up custody and it would enable to to avoid a lot of the problems of co-parenting with her.


Thanks Lon, I hope you are right. Right now her situation is dire (renting a basement apt not big enough for the kids, no job etc etc)...I am striking now while the iron is hot.

At the end of April she was evicted from our old house due to a number of reasons. One of them was this: 2nd week of April one day at approx. the time the neighborhood children were returning from school the neighbors witnessed her, in her driveway, in some guys vehicle, performing oral sex on him. The landlord informed me of this (as my name was still on the lease).


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## belljason92

I am agreeing with your decision but I will always suggest you to do which is beneficial for your son.


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## Shooboomafoo

Lon,
I was surprised at the global acceptance of this new guy from the inlaws (well, ex-inlaws), friends, close friends, etc. I think the Skype thing is really weird. Kids dont talk to recent acquaintances on Skype like they're relatives or something... Your ex is obviously really pushing this to be something, and that push is not healthy or permanent. I am currently waiting for the very same sidestep, the very same nonchalant imposition of this person into everyones life to blow up, and it will. I will be the rock. No matter how sh!tty I feel or angry and rightfully so and justified to be so, when my girl comes to my house, shes content. 
Dont let the ex's craziness push you to act prematurely. I think kids do things to please both parents in the situation they are in at the time. I highly doubt the ex's household is a comfort zone for my daughter, nor do I believe that her willingness to act cordial and welcoming to this freakish vampire my ex has moved in is at all genuine. I think my girl is trying to keep the peace in whatever her 10 year old mind can gather to do so, as well as to cope with the situation that is being presented. Which is entirely her mother's fkup.


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