# Rah Rah..reconciliation cheerleading



## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

What is support? Why is realistic advice ....negative? I remember back when I was playing football, there was this one coach, who always had something inspiring to say ( "you gotta want it," was a favorite of his), always had motivational placards on the walls of the locker-room. He would spend more time on motivation, than he did on actually coaching us about the tactics and procedures of the game of football. Before every game, we were sky-high, during the games we would f**k up, and lose. He believed in positive re-inforcement, so he didn't dwell on mistakes. Under his leadership, we were 4 and 6. He left and was replaced by a taskmaster. He ALWAYS told us when we made mistakes, practiced constantly, kept us on an even keel, and we were 9 and 1. Same kids. Same playbook. Our first practice, he told us we were a bad football team, and that we were bad football players, but that if we approached the game like any other job, with attention to detail, self and team criticism, and plain old hard work,we could become a good team and good players. He coached our team for 28 years and never had a losing season, and won 8 state championships. He died of Cancer, last week. Posters who bash other posters for being "harsh", or "negative", would do well to think about this.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

BTW, our first coach always said that he wanted to be our friend as well as our coach and gave us pats on the back. We loved him. Our second coach was distant, kept things on a business-like footing, administered discipline, and never gave an inch. We hated him......until we started winning.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I take your point, but this is a little more important than a football game. 

Most of this board is about the single most important thing in most people's lives; their family, their kids, their spouse.

It is possible to be straight without being rude. Admittedly, only a friend will tell you when you have a dirty face but there is never a need to use an ad hominem argument.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Pleas explain where my argument is false? You do understand this was an analogy, right?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I understand what an analogy is. Football and marital problems aren't on the same playing field. There are ways to express a difference of opinion without being rude. Or better yet, skip sharing your opinion at all (if you can't do it nicely).


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Can't help but think that in my playing days, I was fortunate to be on a team that was ridiculously talented but that never really applied itself. We were underachievers until our "tough love" coach got axed and we hired the same type of coach you got rid of. 

We won our championship because we were ready to play each week.

People need different things.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

What difference of opinion? I am asking for clarification. I don't know Chris989 and have never been involved with that person. How was I rude?


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Acorn said:


> Can't help but think that in my playing days, I was fortunate to be on a team that was ridiculously talented but that never really applied itself. We were underachievers until our "tough love" coach got axed and we hired the same type of coach you got rid of.
> 
> We won our championship because we were ready to play each week.
> 
> People need different things.


 I agree with this.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Duh?:scratchhead: I responded to your initial post and your third post. I really don't know what Chris989 has to do with anything.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Badblood said:


> Posters who bash other posters for being "harsh", or "negative", would do well to think about this.


There is a difference between shooting straight from the hip and telling a guy he needs to buck it up to bashing him into submission if he disagrees. I tire of the number of BH's that come here looking for help and get told they have no ****ing idea what they are doing. They leave and delete their threads because they don't' understand what to do and no one takes the time to explain what his options were. The one liners hurled at them without any forethought of what his situation is. "File, do the 180 and go dark" doesn't make any sense to the average Joe who comes here having just had his nut sack kicked over his shoulder. All the methods discussed here can have a profound influence on a successful R but used without understanding the situation or the methods you can scuttle the marriage. If you're going to have a guy risk his marriage on a theory at least explain it have him see if it fits into his situation. If his wife's problem is he is not emotionally available to her then the 180 is the opposite thing he needs to do. Yeah, your coach was tough on you but he also spent a lot more time teaching you the skills of the game then he ever did giving you motivational speeches before one. I heard it all when I came here. The same **** from the naysayers who had already ****ed up their own marriage. I took my own path, found my own tools and listened to the posters that explained things and inspired me to have hope. TAM could use more of those. 

*AMP RANT*


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

This really applies to cheerleaders over at Tears' thread.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Complexity said:


> This really applies to cheerleaders over at Tears' thread.


You may be right.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> There is a difference between shooting straight from the hip and telling a guy he needs to buck it up to bashing him into submission if he disagrees. I tire of the number of BH's that come here looking for help and get told they have no ****ing idea what they are doing. They leave and delete their threads because they don't' understand what to do and no one takes the time to explain what his options were. The one liners hurled at them without any forethought of what his situation is. "File, do the 180 and go dark" doesn't make any sense to the average Joe who comes here having just had his nut sack kicked over his shoulder. All the methods discussed here can have a profound influence on a successful R but used without understanding the situation or the methods you can scuttle the marriage. If you're going to have a guy risk his marriage on a theory at least explain it have him see if it fits into his situation. If his wife's problem is he is not emotionally available to her the the 180 is the opposite thing he needs to do. Yeah, your coach was tough on you but he also spent a lot more time teaching you the skills of the game then he ever did giving you motivational speeches before a one. I heard it all when I came here. The same **** from the naysayers who had already ****ed up their own marriage. I took my own path, found my own tools and listened to the posters that explained things and inspired me to have hope. TAM could use more of those.
> 
> *AMP RANT*


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

IDK if I've ever bashed anybody, But I take your point, Amp.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

827Aug said:


> Duh?:scratchhead: I responded to your initial post and your third post. I really don't know what Chris989 has to do with anything.


This was just an observation, 827Aug. Only applicable to certain situations. I NEVER said that football is the equal of an affair, and believe me, I know the difference, first hand, between both. But I would please like to know who I was being rude to? I will apologize immediately as soon as I know, who to?


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

Badblood said:


> But I would please like to know who I was being rude to? I will apologize immediately as soon as I know, who to?


Maybe he was just saying that "people" ( not directly pointing you out)... could say things straight forward, yet in a positive way,, not rude or "you do as I say because my way is the only way"...


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I hope that isn't the case, because I'm no oracle, and my marriage was an encyclopedia of what not to do.


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

Badblood said:


> This was just an observation, 827Aug. Only applicable to certain situations. I NEVER said that football is the equal of an affair, and believe me, I know the difference, first hand, between both. But I would please like to know who I was being rude to? I will apologize immediately as soon as I know, who to?


*
This is total and complete horsesh*t. Badbane , this was a thoughtless post and not helpful in any way. Blaming the AP for the affair is the epitome of deflection and evasion. Most posters have tried really hard to show Regret that she was responsible for her actions, and the SHE, not the OM, was to blame for the affair and the harm it caused to her marriage. It doesn't matter how much he sweet-talked her, sweet-talk only works when it falls on receptive ears. If Dig or Regret begin to believe that the "bad OM) was to blame, their R will be set back months maybe years. Badbane, do you not understand responsibility?*

I didn't want to post in your thread, however this its what you said in Dig and my Q&A thread. This, in my opinion, its bashing. Did I ever get an apology for being called a liar?


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

827Aug said:


> I understand what an analogy is. Football and marital problems aren't on the same playing field. There are ways to express a difference of opinion without being rude. Or better yet, skip sharing your opinion at all (if you can't do it nicely).


I disagree learning to cope with 83 different personalities. Learning to set aside issues for the team and solving personal problems for the good of the team. Taught me alot. My wife never played team sports she lacks a lot of those skills. I am just saying.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

this isn't going to end well


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Regret, I would have apologized to you, but you admitted that what you said was not accurate and took the blame yourself (which I thought very honest of you) , plus Somedaydig asked me to leave the thread, which I did. If you want an apology, OK, I will apologize .


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

badbane said:


> I disagree learning to cope with 83 different personalities. Learning to set aside issues for the team and solving personal problems for the good of the team. Taught me alot. My wife never played team sports she lacks a lot of those skills. I am just saying.


Actually, this was more my point. Some, but not all, of the skills are applicable in both situations.


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## bff (Jul 24, 2012)

I haven't seen or been involved in any of the specific threads mentioned above, but as a BH who recently got a LOT of advice from this forum, I really do agree with the original post. Watch the old WWII movie High Noon sometime for the textbook demonstration of what the OP is referring to. It is commonly used in leadership training.

For me, I really appreciated hearing many different opinions and perspectives on how folks felt about my situation. It wasn't hard to pick out the really bitter or vengeful folks or the conspiracy theorists. I appreciated the tough-love and even the graphic or rude posts. Again, they just represented additional perspectives for me to consider, and they definitely made me tougher when it came time to confront my WW. There were no "new" mental imagines left that she could conjure up that would throw me off.

Just one guy's opinion...

BFF


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## cabin fever (Feb 9, 2012)

Badblood said:


> What is support? Why is realistic advice ....negative? I remember back when I was playing football, there was this one coach, who always had something inspiring to say ( "you gotta want it," was a favorite of his), always had motivational placards on the walls of the locker-room. He would spend more time on motivation, than he did on actually coaching us about the tactics and procedures of the game of football. Before every game, we were sky-high, during the games we would f**k up, and lose. He believed in positive re-inforcement, so he didn't dwell on mistakes. Under his leadership, we were 4 and 6. He left and was replaced by a taskmaster. He ALWAYS told us when we made mistakes, practiced constantly, kept us on an even keel, and we were 9 and 1. Same kids. Same playbook. Our first practice, he told us we were a bad football team, and that we were bad football players, but that if we approached the game like any other job, with attention to detail, self and team criticism, and plain old hard work,we could become a good team and good players. He coached our team for 28 years and never had a losing season, and won 8 state championships. He died of Cancer, last week. Posters who bash other posters for being "harsh", or "negative", would do well to think about this.


did you play the same teams with the same players every year? Most likely not. 

its funny I played also, and had the exact opposite. My coach was a prick. Everyone hated him. We never played as a "team" When he left, and was replaced by a guy that knew what he was talking about, we improved as a team. he motivated us to play better, and be smarter. He explained what we did wrong, and told us how to be better.

Your analogy is no better then mine. There is no "script" when it comes to this. Everyone is different. Everyone reacts differently to harsh comments. Its easy to sit behind a keyboard, and say something.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

some time back I posted this thread- http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/47635-recent-trend-berating-bss.html

basically what Amp and 827 have said in this thread is what I was upset about as being a trend


to be clear -

I find nothing wrong having an opinion that divorce is a feasible and better option in cases of infidelity.
I find nothing wrong with pointing out to BS's that they need to take action, question what they have been told is true, that they need "to take a stand" or do what seems counter-intuitive to what they want, that WS needs to show remorse and it's not the BS's fault, etc etc etc etc - IOW things that seem drastic to someone who was recently betrayed

I'm not even opposed to those opinions that conflict with mine like not thinking exposing is a good idea, etc

what I am opposed to is when those messages are browbeaten into the BS, usually in the form of questioning their manhood. Often those messages are even laced with a sprinkle of misogyny on top of it. I also think that often after a thread has long been discussed that often someone comes barreling in again and repeating the same stuff as if it's needed to pile on top if the heap. (a good example was tears thread). It's as if some posters just want to get their opinion in to bash a WS without having read the whole thread.

as Amp stated, there are ways to express to someone who is in immense pain your opinion without being judgmental, rude or bluntly crass.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> this isn't going to end well


I agree and would be willing to lock this thread if so desired. I meant no rudeness to anybody, nor have I ever. Honesty, self-examination, hard work and cooperation were what took us from a mediocre team to a great one. I learned to admire such traits in others. My coach was one in a million, and he will be missed. Greatly.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Badblood said:


> I agree and would be willing to lock this thread if so desired.


No reason to lock it. It is a healthy discussion of an issue we see here on TAM on a regular basis. I took no personal offense at your post, I simply reflected my own thoughts on the issue.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

analogies work until they don't

I had an english teacher in high school that just loved her Christ symbolism and analogies to the womb and birth and all the other common literary criticisms.

As a lark I wrote an essay that compared The Sound and the Fury to making a cake. I figured that this would burn my teacher's butt since it was obvious I was blatantly defying her teachings and such.

But she gave me an A and wrote comments on how my analogy worked and how interpreting literature and art is done by the reader but at the end of the comments she mentioned that the analogy works until it doesn't, and explained that while I made some interesting points, making a cake has no emotional meaning or intrinsic value and to make the analogy was more of an exercise than a exploration of the true meaning of the book.


that always stuck with me

so while I understand your analogy of football coaching and dealing with marital problems, I don't believe you can ultimately compare the two in the same manner. That isn't saying that football doesn't build character or that your coach wasn't a great man and great person, quite the contrary. It's just that football is a game and for most people, it isn't part of you for most of your adult life.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Almostrecovered said:


> As a lark I wrote an essay that compared The Sound and the Fury


Oh God! Nothing like a book written in first person from the perspective of three different fictional personalities, one of them being mentally deficient. More confusing than the in field fly rule.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I wish I still had that paper, I'm sure it was dribble but it would be interesting to read it again


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I understand your analogy perfectly. I'm certain it was well intended and if taken in the context you intended, has wisdom. It's obviously not applicable in every situation as everyone is different. You may be a victim of your own history here, as I don't see anything inflamatory about what you have said. I have to say I'm a bit surprised how negatively it was received.


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## Mr steal your girl (Aug 11, 2012)

Complexity said:


> This really applies to cheerleaders over at Tears' thread.


Those same men that came to her defense for every criticism that came her way and that she was innocent and played have all been cheated on. Not surprising.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Complexity said:


> This really applies to cheerleaders over at Tears' thread.


Cheerleaders or those trying to provide a balance against people who seem to like to give a repentant wayward spouse the zinger kicks that they either were too scared to give their own wayward spouse way back when, or just never thought of at the time?

There's a difference between tough love and being bloody rude.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr steal your girl said:


> Those same men that came to her defense for every criticism that came her way and that she was innocent and played have all been cheated on. Not surprising.


Not every criticism. Only those so rude and vile that many of them were pulled by the moderators and/or site owner.

But the great thing is, if you do not like the rules regarding civility here, why not set up your own forum where good manners and civility are not required?


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I'm confused. No one said anything about the posting on this thread being rude. A football analogy is not rude. The example you used displayed one management style (or psychology model). There are other management styles (or psychology models). Apparently your preferred football coaching method can be viewed as harsh and negative. Many new people coming to this forum simply cannot handle this approach at this point in their lives.




Badblood said:


> What is support? Why is realistic advice ....negative? Posters who bash other posters for being "harsh", or "negative", would do well to think about this.


This is where our comments were directed. Certainly a poster can post an opposing view. That makes a healthy forum. The problem arrises when that opposing view is delivered with rudeness, nastiness, and negativity. There are ways to NICELY tell people things. Realistic advice does not have to be rude or crass.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr steal your girl said:


> Those same men that came to her defense for every criticism that came her way and that she was innocent and played have all been cheated on. Not surprising.


Good grief. I just realised. You seem to be attacking those of us who have recovered from being cheated on and remained with our spouses!

Coping With Infidelity means just that. It doesn't mean Go Get a Divorce, Now!


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Cheerleaders or those trying to provide a balance against people who seem to like to give a repentant wayward spouse the zinger kicks that they either were too scared to give their own wayward spouse way back when, or just never thought of at the time?
> 
> There's a difference between tough love and being bloody rude.


No, there's a difference between providing balance and swarming on anyone that dares say anything remotely negative on that thread. It was actually getting ridiculous and pretty pathetic to be honest. I find it bizarre that she was made out to be this snowflake angel and her husband as this bad guy. It actually got to a stage where the cheerleaders were getting angry at the people telling her to show remorse. wtf.

Anyway, enough of the threadjack


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Complexity said:


> No, there's a difference between providing balance and swarming on anyone that dares say anything remotely negative on that thread. It was actually getting ridiculous and pretty pathetic to be honest. I find it bizarre that she was made out to be this snowflake angel and her husband as this bad guy. It actually got to a stage where the cheerleaders were getting angry at the people telling her to show remorse. wtf.
> 
> Anyway, enough of the threadjack


*She cheated and she knows she did wrong*. What wasn't required were posters mentally sticking an image of their WS on to Tears and attacking their WS through Tears. Not fair on Tears and not helping the attacking poster, either, to be honest.

If those posts had been OK, would a moderator have felt it necessary to delete 60 posts in one session and report that fact in the thread?


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## Mr steal your girl (Aug 11, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Good grief. I just realised. You seem to be attacking those of us who have recovered from being cheated on and remained with our spouses!
> 
> Coping With Infidelity means just that. It doesn't mean Go Get a Divorce, Now!


I haven't attacked anyone, but the people that were blindly defending her saying she was innocent when she claimed that she wasn't have all been cheated on. There seems to be a pattern.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> She cheated and she knows she did wrong. What wasn't required were posters mentally sticking an image of their WS on to Tears and attacking their WS through Tears. Not fair on Tears and not helping the attacking poster, either, to be honest.
> 
> If those posts had been OK, would a moderator have felt it necessary to delete 60 posts in one session and report that fact in the thread?


Most of them were actually off topic discussions, nothing related to attacking her. And you repeatedly said it wasn't her fault at all. You essentially placed all the blame on the OM and his "Casanova skills" so you really can't talk about "balance" Matt. Moreover, what's the point of a discussion forum if it's "say something positive or else". She doesn't need to be coddled. If someone has something negative to say about her situation or because they went through something similar in their life, let her respond to it. She doesn't need the neighbourhood nightwatch on her back.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Mr steal your girl said:


> I haven't attacked anyone, but the people that were blindly defending her saying she was innocent when she claimed that she wasn't have all been cheated on. There seems to be a pattern.


who said she was innocent?


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## Mr steal your girl (Aug 11, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Not every criticism. Only those so rude and vile that many of them were pulled by the moderators and/or site owner.
> 
> But the great thing is, if you do not like the rules regarding civility here, why not set up your own forum where good manners and civility are not required?


Who said anything about not liking the rules? Maybe you should follow your own advice and set up a site, if the tough love approach of other posters is too harsh for you.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

This is not going to end well


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## tears (Jul 31, 2012)

Complexity said:


> No, there's a difference between providing balance and swarming on anyone that dares say anything remotely negative on that thread. It was actually getting ridiculous and pretty pathetic to be honest. I find it bizarre that she was made out to be this snowflake angel and her husband as this bad guy.* It actually got to a stage where the cheerleaders were getting angry at the people telling her to show remorse.* wtf.
> 
> Anyway, enough of the threadjack


I'm trying to understand his pain, even though I probably never will to the fullest extent. But only a few have been kind enough to suggest how exactly I have to go about showing remorse, whatever your definition of the word is. I've seen the remorse vs Rugsweeping image that LordMayhem posts regularly and I'm doing all of that. He's not ready for and I understand that too and know that i can't set a time frame for him to heal.

I've seen that the people who're not cheerleaders only tell me to show remorse and that my husband is probably better off without a cheating slvt for a wife. But why not educate me on what your spouse did when you were in R or what they didn't do to lead to the breakdown of your marriage post-affair(unless you filed immediately). I don't mind accepting negative comments if they come with instructions on how to change those negatives to positives.

And I do agree with badblood about people needing tough love. The fact that my husband is not willing to R just yet tells me that he's showing tough love( I know that he still loves me otherwise he wouldn't be hurt by what I did). But imagine if Badblood had a coach who just screamed at them for being pathetic losers and calling time on the practice session, where would they have been if he hadn't given them strategies to work with or if he hadn't pushed them extra hard to give it their best?


And just so everybody's clear I am not a snowflake angel nor is my husband the bad guy. I was the one that cheated and ruined my life. There.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

tears said:


> I'm trying to understand his pain, even though I probably never will to the fullest extent. But only a few have been kind enough to suggest how exactly I have to go about showing remorse, whatever your definition of the word is. I've seen the remorse vs Rugsweeping image that LordMayhem posts regularly and I'm doing all of that. He's not ready for and I understand that too and know that i can't set a time frame for him to heal.
> 
> I've seen that the people who're not cheerleaders only tell me to show remorse and that my husband is probably better off without a cheating slvt for a wife. But why not educate me on what your spouse did when you were in R or what they didn't do to lead to the breakdown of your marriage post-affair(unless you filed immediately). I don't mind accepting negative comments if they come with instructions on how to change those negatives to positives.
> 
> ...


My issue isn't with you tears. I know what it's like to defend someone when they're not particularly popular on this forum. I've done it with people who've done much worse than you. My issue is with those who want silence people and report them whenever they make a statement or an opinion that doesn't correspond with theirs. There's a fine line between insulting personally and expressing disapproval.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> Oh God! Nothing like a book written in first person from the perspective of three different fictional personalities, one of them being mentally deficient. More confusing than the in field fly rule.


Unless it would be the goaltender/in the crease rule in hockey, or the balk rule. All three suck a** , if you ask me.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I understand your analogy perfectly. I'm certain it was well intended and if taken in the context you intended, has wisdom. It's obviously not applicable in every situation as everyone is different. You may be a victim of your own history here, as I don't see anything inflamatory about what you have said. I have to say I'm a bit surprised how negatively it was received.


Not a problem, I can take it, as well as dish it out. Geez some of the comments I got, when I first came here, were lethal, but I appreciated them, nonetheless.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

827Aug said:


> I'm confused. No one said anything about the posting on this thread being rude. A football analogy is not rude. The example you used displayed one management style (or psychology model). There are other management styles (or psychology models). Apparently your preferred football coaching method can be viewed as harsh and negative. Many new people coming to this forum simply cannot handle this approach at this point in their lives.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, wrong post


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr steal your girl said:


> I haven't attacked anyone, but the people that were blindly defending her saying she was innocent when she claimed that she wasn't have all been cheated on. There seems to be a pattern.


Nobody said she was innocent. Did they?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Complexity said:


> Most of them were actually off topic discussions, nothing related to attacking her. And you repeatedly said it wasn't her fault at all. You essentially placed all the blame on the OM and his "Casanova skills" so you really can't talk about "balance" Matt. Moreover, what's the point of a discussion forum if it's "say something positive or else". She doesn't need to be coddled. If someone has something negative to say about her situation or because they went through something similar in their life, let her respond to it. She doesn't need the neighbourhood nightwatch on her back.


I agreed with her acknowledgement of the fact that she had done wrong, but pointed out that there might be reasons why she had cheated that could be identified by counselling. 

Cheating is still wrong, however. I am sure everyone here agrees with that.

We might not need the neighbourhood night-watch we certainly don't need "burn the cheater" watch committee members, either.

I saw some of the posts that were removed. Not all were off topic. Just nasty.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I can see now what the problem is, and it's my fault, because I never explained it properly. I never said ANYTHING about tough love. My coach was the epitome of polite behavior, a true Southern Gentleman of the old school. It wasn't any hard words that made us listen to him, it was the force and integrity of his character. 5 words from him (and you were lucky if you got that many), was the same as 1/2 hour speech from somebody else, because his words were always direct, to the point, and unequivocal. An example: In my second to last game as a senior, I rushed for 322 yards on 26 carries, scored 3 TD's, caught a pass for a 2-pt conversion and had two INTS. Not bragging, but I think a pretty good game. After our games , coach would always tell us who was the player of the game. In that game, coach said it was one of the defensive tackles. One of the local sports writers asked why not me, and coach said , "I have come to expect excellent play from Mr. Badblood, and know that he needs no other incentive except opportunity". It was the proudest moment of my life to that point, because I knew that he meant every syllable. TAM is an excellent vehicle for R'ing a marriage, but RAh Rahing and schmoozing don't equate to positive advice , any more than directness and reality equate to negative.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

BTW, I feel that Tears has exhibited excellent self-control, here, and is deserving of respect.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mr steal your girl said:


> Who said anything about not liking the rules? Maybe you should follow your own advice and set up a site, if the tough love approach of other posters is too harsh for you.


I will say again _there is a difference between tough love and being bloody rude_.

I have used the tough love approach myself at times, but tried to temper it with a touch of humour or some compassion. 

If a poster is making a fool of himself or herself with a WS they need a firm tap on the shoulder, not a punch in the face. They are getting enough pain from their WS without well-meaning people here inadvertently putting the boot in, as well.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> who said she was innocent?


Ummm... nobody did, I think?:scratchhead:


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Complexity said:


> My issue isn't with you tears. I know what it's like to defend someone when they're not particularly popular on this forum. I've done it with people who've done much worse than you. My issue is with those who want silence people and report them whenever they make a statement or an opinion that doesn't correspond with theirs. There's a fine line between insulting personally and expressing disapproval.


When I was a moderator on a forum -back in the old pre-broadband days!- we rarely needed anyone to report dubious posts. Though it was a help when they were reported.

And posts that were reported for holding a different opinion were only pulled on the rare occasions that they were not only different but also in violation of bulletin board rules. 

Moderators develop a sixth sense for dubious posts, trolls (even deep ones!) and for posters with a liking for pushing the boundaries for one reason or another.

We knew posters who were liable to be over the top and we'd watch them until they did something daft, again and delete their posts that broke the rules.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Badblood said:


> BTW, our first coach always said that he wanted to be our friend as well as our coach and gave us pats on the back. We loved him. Our second coach was distant, kept things on a business-like footing, administered discipline, and never gave an inch. We hated him......until we started winning.


Why do you have to keep score in football anyway? Why can't both teams win?

He probably rolls over in his grave every time someone says something like that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Why do you have to keep score in football anyway? Why can't both teams win?
> 
> He probably rolls over in his grave every time someone says something like that.


Of course, in a relationship both sides are supposed to win, right?:smthumbup:


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> I take your point, but this is a little more important than a football game.
> 
> Most of this board is about the single most important thing in most people's lives; their family, their kids, their spouse.
> 
> It is possible to be straight without being rude. Admittedly, only a friend will tell you when you have a dirty face but there is never a need to use an ad hominem argument.


I like your intent but I disagree with one thing. The coach he refers to was not teaching them football. He was teaching them character whether they knew it then or not. So yes this stuff is very important on the forum but so was that.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

827Aug said:


> I understand what an analogy is. Football and marital problems aren't on the same playing field. There are ways to express a difference of opinion without being rude. Or better yet, skip sharing your opinion at all (if you can't do it nicely).


Okay. He's asked if you understood he was using an analogy. I don't understand why the call out? It's not a big deal (to me it would not have been anyway).


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

827Aug said:


> Duh?:scratchhead: I responded to your initial post and your third post. I really don't know what Chris989 has to do with anything.


Really? He's rude for asking if you understand and your not rude for having started this with "Duh?". I don't think either one of you were rude and I'm not being rude now. I'm just saying I don't understand the rub here.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Regret214 said:


> *
> This is total and complete horsesh*t. Badbane , this was a thoughtless post and not helpful in any way. Blaming the AP for the affair is the epitome of deflection and evasion. Most posters have tried really hard to show Regret that she was responsible for her actions, and the SHE, not the OM, was to blame for the affair and the harm it caused to her marriage. It doesn't matter how much he sweet-talked her, sweet-talk only works when it falls on receptive ears. If Dig or Regret begin to believe that the "bad OM) was to blame, their R will be set back months maybe years. Badbane, do you not understand responsibility?*
> 
> I didn't want to post in your thread, however this its what you said in Dig and my Q&A thread. This, in my opinion, its bashing. Did I ever get an apology for being called a liar?


What did I do?


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Why do you have to keep score in football anyway? Why can't both teams win?
> 
> He probably rolls over in his grave every time someone says something like
> 
> ...



Thank you MattMatt for pointing out my genius. I was not fully aware of it myself .


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## Regret214 (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm sorry for the confusion Badbane. What was in bold was supposed to be how Badblood responded in the Q&A thread to YOU. I wrote that in response to him saying that he's never bashed anyone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> Thank you MattMatt for pointing out my genius. I was not fully aware of it myself .


No problem! Genius needs to be nurtured and pointed out!


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> There is a difference between shooting straight from the hip and telling a guy he needs to buck it up to* bashing him into submission if he disagrees.*... All the methods discussed here can have a profound influence on a successful R but used without understanding the situation or the methods you can scuttle the marriage. If you're going to have a guy risk his marriage on a theory at least explain it have him see if it fits into his situation..... *If his wife's problem is he is not emotionally available to her then the 180 is the opposite thing he needs to do. *..... I heard it all when I came here. *The same **** from the naysayers who had already ****ed up their own marriage.* I *took my own path, found my own tools* and *listened to the posters that explained things and inspired me to have hope.* * TAM could use more of those. *
> 
> *AMP RANT*


Wow, I wish I had said that............ but, I'm so glad you did! I am so blessed that B1 inherently understood that "The 180" would not have resulted in the path to reconciliation that he and I are currently on. I was so far removed from our marriage, at that point, that I probably would not have noticed. I, honestly, feel like our marriage has risen from the ashes because he had the courage, the strength and, most of all, the love within him, for me, to fight for me and to fight for us. I get overcome with emotion every time I think about the pure, selfless, love that he bathed me in when his heart was literally breaking. I remember when I realized that he truly loved me. I will never again doubt his love and commitment to me. And, I will never again give him any reason to doubt my love and commitment to him. When I go to bed at night and B1 rolls over and puts one arm under my pillow and holds my hand and the other arm around my waist and pulls me as close to him as possible, I know that I'm "home." It wasn't "tough love" that brought me home. It was pure, selfless, genuine love.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Complexity said:


> I know what it's like to defend someone when they're not particularly popular on this forum. I've done it with people who've done much worse than you.


EI raises her hand.....  BTW, thank you for being one of the first to show some compassion for this former WS! 



Complexity said:


> My issue is with those who want silence people and report them whenever they make a statement or an opinion that doesn't correspond with theirs. There's a fine line between insulting personally and expressing disapproval.


Just for the record........ I don't report anyone to the moderators (and I think I was on the receiving end of some serious "bashing" during the first couple of weeks I posted here).... I have recently discovered the "ignore" button!


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I like your intent but I disagree with one thing. The coach he refers to was not teaching them football. He was teaching them character whether they knew it then or not. So yes this stuff is very important on the forum but so was that.


You're on a roll, thundarr, because you are exactly right. My coach taught me character as did the other "elders", in my life, and character, or the lack of it or flaw in it, is central to the issue of infidelity. Simply put, people of good character do not cheat, because if they did, then they wouldn't be people of good character. So pointing out character issues is not negative, but positive, though very often mis-interpreted.People who cheat and have character flaws, can BECOME people of good character, and loyal, faithful spouses, but they first have to identify the flaws, in order to beat them.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Badblood said:


> You're on a roll, thundarr, because you are exactly right. My coach taught me character as did the other "elders", in my life, and character, or the lack of it or flaw in it, is central to the issue of infidelity. Simply put, people of good character do not cheat, because if they did, then they wouldn't be people of good character. So pointing out character issues is not negative, but positive, though very often mis-interpreted.People who cheat and have character flaws, can BECOME people of good character, and loyal, faithful spouses, but they first have to identify the flaws, in order to beat them.


It's also possible for people of good character, who are loyal, faithful spouses to really risk their marriage and their integrity by having an affair. 

As the person who helped me after I badly fell below my own standards said: "Oh, my God, Matt. You idiot! What were you thinking? You have to tell your wife!"


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Matt, how can this be? You 're whole post is a contradiction. If you are a loyal, faithful spouse of good character, how can you have an affair? You might have been all of those things BEFORE the affair and you might even be those things AFTER the affair, but you absolutely cannot be those things DURING the affair.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Badblood said:


> Matt, how can this be? You 're whole post is a contradiction. If you are a loyal, faithful spouse of good character, how can you have an affair? You might have been all of those things BEFORE the affair and you might even be those things AFTER the affair, but you absolutely cannot be those things DURING the affair.


Of course it is a contradiction! That's the point! 

People are complex and contradictory creatures.

The problem is that in the world of infidelity there are wacky opinions at both ends of the spectrum. From the empty-headed counsellors who think both spouses must be equally responsible if one spouse cheats to the equally suspect people at the other end of the spectrum who shout: "What? They looked at someone else? Then you must kick them to the kerb!"


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Of course it is a contradiction! That's the point!
> 
> People are complex and contradictory creatures.
> 
> The problem is that in the world of infidelity there are wacky opinions at both ends of the spectrum. From the empty-headed counsellors who think both spouses must be equally responsible if one spouse cheats to the equally suspect people at the other end of the spectrum who shout: "What? They looked at someone else? Then you must kick them to the kerb!"


So true. And the path of least resistance is to jump on the "kick them to the kerb" side of it. Maybe because that's true a lot of the time.

I have to remind myself that I don't see everything from a few words on here and that there are exceptions. There are some people with major denial going on but even then when I'm so sure they should cut and run, I know they will not listen if I'm too harsh too quickly. They'll confuse me with the extreme "cut and run" guys. 

Tears was an example to me where I was not sure. At least there was not complete naivety on her part and I found myself hoping for R.


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