# Lesbian Marriage



## bella91 (Nov 30, 2017)

I titled this Lesbian Marriage so that you all know what you're getting into by reading this. Please don't come at me with "you're going to hell" or this or that. Just move along.

If you are reading this to help, I thank you. I will try to keep it short.

My name is B (22). Her name is S (28). We started "talking" in January of 2016. We became official girlfriends in July of 2016. 5 months later we moved in together and she proposed in January of 2017. In April of 2017 we announced our engagement and sent out wedding invitations. We got married in August 2017. Really fast huh? Stereotypical lesbians. 

Well I'll begin. S and I met in January of 2016. I guess neither of us really made it clear we were interested in one another so we were "friends" and we would talk and somewhat flirt here and there. I was sure that S did not see me as anything more than a friend when she told me she was talking to an ex that she wanted to try and patch things up with. So I went on to date other girls and I would tell S about them. S would tell me how she was having tough times with her ex and she'd get sad. Often, she'd ask if we could hang out. S and I lived an hour and a half away from each other. Whenever she asked if I could go over, I wouldn't even think twice about the long driving because I wanted us to be good friends to each other. So I would go. Many times. I figured out that it was a one sided friendship when I was seeing a girl who became abusive and I asked S to come get me at work because this girl had given me a ride and I did not want to get in her car. S said she would let me know if she could. She never called back. After that, I didn't talk to S as much. And I guess she noticed. While I was still trying to figure things out with the abusive girl, S asked me to be her girlfriend. It was weird, because on numerous occasions, the girls I'd date would tell me that they could tell S had feelings towards me, and I'd outright ask her to prove that we were just friends and she would never respond. I would always think she was trying to spare my feelings. I ended up saying yes because, honestly, it gave the abusive girl a reason to back off of me. (I know I should've just gotten a restraining order.)
S and I started dating and eventually S and I were inseparable in August 2016. She absolutely adored me, couldn't keep her hands off of me, and we never fought. Like ever. I was so head over heels. Then she started back up in school October 2016. She had just transferred from a CC to a university so it was a hard transition. I was helping her through the stress but it was definitely taking a toll on both of us. She started changing. I know she became depressed. I have dealt with my fair share of depression, suicide attempts, bipolar disorder, and PTSD in the past so I knew the signs. She suddenly became controlling. She would get angry if I made new friends, she would accuse me of wanting to cheat on her or leave her. To be honest, I thought about breaking up with her multiple times during this. But I knew this wasn't her, she was under a lot of stress and she was depressed. She told me she wanted to kill herself multiple times. I was falling apart. She once told me this while I was at work and I didn't know what to do. I had to leave work to go see her. It was causing me so much stress to know that no matter what I did, she would get mad at me, tell me I'm stressing her out. She became insanely jealous of a male coworker. She would accuse me of wanting to cheat on her with him. Again guys LESBIAN not BI or Pan. I would call her insane. I told her she needed to get help. This was all happening after we had moved in together and after she had proposed. I felt stuck. I didn't know what to do. I had accepted a proposal from a girl that needed help. I felt like I would be completely in the wrong to accept to love someone "for better or for worse" if in her time of need, I just left. So I stayed. I endured this period of "walking on eggshells" while she constantly put me down. She ended up getting suspended for a below academic standard GPA. I have to mention, she was working full time as a manager while taking these classes, and she still worked an hour and a half away from where we were living together. So the stress was real.
After she was suspended, she just kept working. It was amazing how much she changed after the stress of school was not on her shoulders. I thought we were finally getting back to where we had started. But alas, I don't think we'll ever be there again. As I mentioned we lived 1 & 1/2 hours away from her place of work. I worked and went to school where we shared a home. She used to come home 3-4 times a week, 2 days of non work days and every so often when she did not have a closing shift. Later she only came home her 2 days off. (she would stay at her mom's house) This meant I was home alone 5 days of the week. I was very lonely. I would complain, and tell her it wasn't fair that I had to be home alone so much. She would tell me that she couldn't afford to work another job closer to me and still pay all the bills. Even though she wasn't home with me, she would still control what I did. She started to dislike my best friend who is a male. She said I spent too much time with him, or that I preferred him to her. If she found out I made plans with him or anyone really she would get upset and say that I didn't even ask her. That would make me angry and I would tell her, I don't need permission.
Throughout all this, the wedding announcement and planning was happening. I felt as though I had gotten myself really stuck. I felt like I'd be an embarrassment if I cancelled it or if I ended up moving back in with my parents. I thought to myself, "keep working on it, marriage isn't supposed to be easy." So there I was, constantly under her thumb.
I have always been a person with a high sex drive, so when I knew she was coming home, I'd get excited thinking "yay we could have sex tonight". So I'd come on to her, trying to turn her on. She would push me away or tell me she was tired, or that she wanted to have dinner first. It was always something. We would go weeks without sex. Like many of you probably, I started suspecting her of infidelity. It just made sense. There were days she wouldn't call me, or message me when she was in her hometown. Many times she would call back hours later saying she was asleep. I started tracking her phone and noticed that at 3 AM she was at the movies. When I asked if she had gone out that night, she lied and said no. I confronted her with the evidence and she said she was on a walk. A walk... alone... at 3 AM... yeah no. I did not believe her and she said she did not care if I did. Later, I would call her when I knew she was off and she wouldn't answer. I tracked her phone and noticed she was driving. She went to Safeway, parked, and went in. I called her throughout this. Obviously she could not say she was sleeping. I called her multiple times. When she finally answered she said she had just gotten off work. I said, hmm so you're not at Safeway? She said nope. Blatantly lied. She later said she just wanted to shop without being on the phone. I said, that's fine, but you could have answered a call and said, hey babe I'm about to run into the store I'll call you back. But no. She disregards my feelings.
Later after we were wed, she finally transferred jobs to where we lived together. I was happy. She was coming home to me everyday. But things were still difficult. Our sex life is terrible. Whenever I see her naked I say things like, damn look at that butt or wow you look amazing. Just to make her feel good about herself. I am always thinking about her. But she doesn't say anything when I am naked. On the contrary, if I am naked, trying to turn her on, she rejects me. I have always been confident about my body and who I am. But being rejected every time for sex for the past 9 months, and yes literally every time, starts to wear you down. I feel so down about myself and my weight, which causes me to eat my feelings which causes me to gain more weight which makes me feel worse... it is a never ending cycle.

Since she is at home now, she has become more controlling. She wants me to only hang out with her. She gets upset if I spend too much time somewhere else even if I am just visiting family. She still hates my best friend. 
When I bring something up that she did that upset me she will not apologize without bringing up something I said or did weeks ago. I say, are you going to apologize, and she says, well are you going to apologize for blank from last week. It is so immature. And then I get more upset and she turns it around on me and says I am the bad guy because I haven't apologized. 
I tagged her in something on FB today. It was an announcement of Applebees 1 dollar Long Island Ice Teas. They are my favorite drink. I first started drinking them with my best friend. I tagged him in it and then tagged her in it. Sadly, I had the thought, hmm maybe I should put her first. Then I said nah.
Well what do you know, she said, ¨Don't tag me in something if you're not going to put me first. It is disrespectful.¨ Which is what prompted me to write this. I just feel like I am losing my mind. My best friend tells me to move on. To let her go. Sometimes I want to. Sometimes I cant think of doing it. I start wishing she could just cheat on me so I could have a good excuse. I know it isn't healthy. I am so depressed.
Our landlord, who is actually, sadly, my own brother, wants to increase our rent by 300 dollars come February. We certainly cannot afford it right now while I am in school. (I am a full time student and have a part time job) I used to work full time. It is my last year of college for my BA so I want to work less and finish on time. I asked my brother to hold off on the increase til I graduate and take a 125 increase for now. He said no, and as such, my wife and I are going to have to move out and move in with her mom who has enough space to house us and our 3 dogs. I will be commuting 1 hour to school Mon through Thurs. I am majorly depressed that my own brother would do this to me. And I am scared to move away from my family. I will be completely under her thumb in her hometown where I know no one. I can not see this being a good thing but again I feel we have no choice. We cannot afford another place right now. 
I just don't know what to do. Please give me some advice.
Also if you say counseling, just know I have asked her to. She says if I find a counselor, they will be biased towards me because I could have talked to them prior. So I asked her to find one then. She said she has no money for that. So she just doesn't.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

First of all it doesn’t matter whether you are lesbian or not.
You are being treated terribly by your wife and you need to put an end to her abusive behavior.I don’t quite get why you married such a drama queen but what’s done is done.I think you need to look for someplace cheaper to rent,whether with housemates or alone but you need to get your self esteem back and moving in with her and her mother isn’t going to help.
If she doesn’t find you attractive then that’s the biggest red flag.Do you want to spend years with someone who makes you feel bad about yourself and doesn’t care.If you can afford it look for some individual counseling because you need to work on yourself first and foremost and find out why you married such a person.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Well as a man I can tell you one thing for sure, a good woman is incredibly hard to find. You've probably heard that saying towards guys all your life, a good man is hard to find, even though you don't swing that way. As a lesbian in pretty much the same world as me in terms of your sexual preferences, you know good women are equally hard to find.

I think you ignored a lot of red flags and moved forward in your relationship regardless of the red flags waving in your face. You aren't alone as millions of people do this and get married, then a year or two into marriage its like they suddenly snap out of it and see all the red flags that were always there but ignored. Then they sit and wonder how they got themselves into this mess and want their parter to suddenly change. 

By this time, you have already shown your wife you will put up with blatant lying to your face. You have shown you will put up with childish behaviors. You have shown you will put up with being refused and turned down for sex when you want it. yout have shown she gets to call the shots regarding her work/home life balance. You have shown she has all the power in the relationship regarding every aspect you have described in your marriage, including counseling, apologies... I mean everything!! She has all the power and you are left receiving the scraps of love she so chooses to throw your way. 

I think an ultimatum is your only choice, but you have to strengthen yourself to the point where you will actually follow through with the consequences if she doesn't change or give up her power and show she is willing to work as a TEAM. Couples counselling, or else....! And you better grow a set if you know what I mean and be willing to follow through with the "or else" part. 

Do they have a "no more Mrs nice woman" book TAMers?


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

I am a woman who was married to and is now divorced from another woman.

First, you do have options. You need to reframe your thinking. 

Second, get counseling - BY YOURSELF. 

Third, make arrangements to move out on your own. Do not move with your wife to her hometown with her family. 

After counseling, time and space, re consider whether staying legally bound to this person is really what you want.

Lesbians move fast - into and OUT of love. Of all of my lesbian friends who got married after being legally allowed to, not one single marriage is still intact. Several have already moved on to second legal marriages, some are already on their 4th or 5th subsequent relationships.

Break free of this farce of a marriage and whenever you're healthy enough to date again (please give it a year or two before you even try), make sure you give any potential partner at least 2 years of DATING (not cohabiting) before mingling finances, homes, or making your obligations to each other legal. It takes at least 2 years to really get to know a person. At least. And sometimes that doesn't even matter. I was with my exwife for several years before we actually got married. But that's another story.


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## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

..


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Magnesium said:


> Lesbians move fast - into and OUT of love. Of all of my lesbian friends who got married after being legally allowed to, not one single marriage is still intact. Several have already moved on to second legal marriages, some are already on their 4th or 5th subsequent relationships.


Makes sense. The hard part of relationships and marriage is having to deal with a woman. When both parties in the relationship have to deal with a woman, its bound to be a lot of breakups.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Slartibartfast said:


> The reality is that EVERYONE should have to have counseling before marriage or permanent partnering, even without the additional social drive to prove you can have what the other folks have. (Is that a thing, Mag?)


Complete and utter nonsense. What is some twice divorced moron with a degree on his/her wall going to teach me? People are full or chit, what makes a counselor any different? They have a degree in BSing people? Lol


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Slartibartfast said:


> The reality is that EVERYONE should have to have counseling before marriage or permanent partnering, even without the additional social drive to prove you can have what the other folks have. (Is that a thing, Mag?)


Is what a thing? The social drive to prove you can have what other folks have? I suppose it is for many..not just for GLBTs. I mean, look around...


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> I would call her insane.


Well, anything is possible, Bella. You are not describing insane behavior, however. Instead, the behaviors you mention -- i.e., verbal abuse, suicide threats, controlling actions, irrational jealousy, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," inability to trust, and rapid flips between Jekyll (loving you) and Hyde (devaluing you) -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting that your W exhibits full-blown BPD (only a professional can determine that). Rather, I suggesting that she may be exhibiting moderate to strong traits of BPD.



> She told me she wanted to kill herself multiple times.


_"Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats"_ is one of the 9 defining symptoms for BPD. You will find the complete list of BPD symptoms at 9 BPD Traits at NIMH.



> She constantly put me down.... I was, constantly under her thumb.


_"Inappropriate, intense anger or problems controlling anger"_ is one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD. If your W is a BPDer, she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that will TRIGGER a release of anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a hissy fit in only ten seconds over very minor actions or comments. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.



> I endured this period of "walking on eggshells" while she constantly put me down.


If you are married to a BPDer (i.e., person exhibiting behavior on the upper third of the BPD spectrum), "walking on eggshells" is exactly how you should be feeling. As noted above, BPDers carry enormous anger/hurt inside that can be triggered in seconds by any harmless comment or action. This is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to abused spouses) is called _Stop Walking on Eggshells_.



> We would go weeks without sex.... Our sex life is terrible.


With BPDers, it is common for sexual activity to go off a cliff immediately following the marriage, if not sooner. Granted, they typically have a strong desire for intimacy like nearly every other adult. Yet, because they have a fragile, weak sense of identity, they cannot tolerate intimacy for very long without feeling suffocated and controlled by your strong personality. This reaction to intimacy is called an "engulfment fear." They are able to enjoy lots of intense sex during the courtship period only because their infatuation holds their engulfment fear at bay. As soon as the infatuation starts evaporating -- typically about 4 to 6 months into the R/S -- that fear returns.



> She would push me away or tell me she was tired... It was always something.


Because BPDers cannot tolerate sustained intimacy for very long, they will often create fights -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away. Moreover, the WORST fights typically will occur immediately following the very BEST of times. After an intimate evening or in the middle of a great vacation, for example, a BPDer may start feeling like she is losing herself into your strong personality. Or she may simply perceive the engulfment feeling as her being "controlled" and "suffocated" by you.



> She gets upset if I spend too much time somewhere else even if I am just visiting family. She still hates my best friend.


Likewise, my BPDer exW hated my adult foster son and did not like me spending time with friends or family members. This behavior is due to a BPDer's second great fear: that of abandonment. When you are spending time with others whom you like, a BPDer will misinterpret it as you choosing THEM over HER. It therefore easily triggers her abandonment fear. The result is that she will experience intense feelings that distort her perceptions of your intentions and motivations. _"Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment"_ is another one of the nine defining traits for BPD. 



> She became insanely jealous of a male coworker.


As noted above, a BPDer's greatest fear is abandonment. This fear can easily produce feelings so intense that her perceptions of you become strongly distorted. Consequently, the BPDer will make outrageous allegations (e.g., that a lesbian is seeking sex with her male friend) and will be absolutely convinced they are true.



> It is so immature.


If she is a BPDer, she likely is far more immature than you realize. BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old because their emotional development was frozen at an early age. This may not be readily apparent to you because the vast majority of BPDers are high functioning folks who usually have an education and intelligence equal to that of healthy individuals. It therefore is common for a BPDer to excel in a very difficult profession, e.g., becoming a successful professor, surgeon, actor, psychologist, or politician.

This professional success is possible for high functioning BPDers because they generally get along fine with coworkers, clients, casual friends, and  total strangers. None of those people is able to trigger the BPDer's fears of abandonment and engulfment. There is no close relationship that can be _abandoned_ -- and no intimacy to trigger the suffocating feeling of _engulfment_. 



> I just feel like I am losing my mind.


Again, that is exactly how you should be feeling if you're married to a BPDer. Because BPDers usually are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. 



> I start wishing she could just cheat on me so I could have a good excuse [to leave her].


Bella, walking away from a BPDer is extremely painful and difficult to do. The primary reason is that it feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Whereas a full-blown narcissist and a sociopath are unable to love, a BPDer is able to love very intensely. It is an immature form of love, however, and thus falls far short of what is required to sustain a mature adult relationship.

A second reason is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer usually believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Because her feelings are so intense, she is absolutely convinced they MUST be correct. Moreover, that sincerity and conviction usually will be obvious to you (and to the police if she ever calls them to arrest you). Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes most of her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

A third reason -- especially for excessive caregivers like you and me -- is that a BPDer relationship gives us an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of being the nearly perfect person who has ridden in on a white horse to save the maiden from unhappiness. Unfortunately, our desire _to be needed_ (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire _to be loved _(for the people we already are). We therefore are strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room. Indeed, if you ever see a Marilyn Monroe movie, you will see a BPDer woman who could project enormous vulnerability right off of a flat movie screen.

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality and your preferences during the courtship period, you both mistakenly believe that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when you later start to question that intense feeling intellectually, you still have to fight against the intense feeling that she is somehow perfect for you -- and destined to be your mate.



> Please give me some advice.


Bella, I suggest that you consult with a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you are dealing with. I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits them at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as suicide threats, controlling behavior, temper tantrums, and irrational jealousy.

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe as to constitute full-blown BPD. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer or a heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., avoid remaining in a toxic relationship and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her.

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of _18 BPD Warning Signs_ to see if most sound very familiar. If so, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _Maybe's Thread_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Bella.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm not trying to sound all doomsday, but your wife's behavior is very similar to that of a person who is cheating on you and is now controlling you to make sure you a) never find out or b) don't cheat yourself (do as I say, not as I do - very classic cheater behavior).

Or she could just be incredibly possessive, possibly have a PD, but her behavior is of an extreme that I equate more with fear and insecurity than I do with control and manipulation, the former of which are the hallmarks of a less than faithful individual.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What you are seeing is who your wife really is... this is her... abusive, mean, controlling.

For your own sake you need to divorce her. Your best friend is right. Can you move back with your family, or get a cheap (but safe) place that you can afford so you can finish your last year of school?

I fear that if you move in with her family, with an hour each way drive, you will never finish school. And if you take much longer to leave her, there will not be much of you left.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think she's just not capable of having real relationships with people, either as a friend or lover. Do not let your potential embarrassment about a short marriage be the deciding factor in whether you divorce or not. This is your life and you need to spend it with someone who will fulfill you.


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