# Found out on V-Day



## donesies

Worst Valentine’s Day ever! 

My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.

It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more. 

It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons). 

This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young children. 

My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.

I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??


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## As'laDain

donesies said:


> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.
> 
> It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more.
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young daughters.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??


i am sorry you have to go through this... 

start by documenting everything. take pictures of the journal entries, upload them to an offsite location. store them in two places. 

the hardest part is going to be deciding what you want to do. divorce, or reconcile. personally, what i would do is expose the affair to everyone, including the other mans wife and your cheating wife's family and friends. at the same time i would start divorce proceedings, even if i wanted to reconcile. divorce proceedings can always be stopped later if you so choose.


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## SunCMars

Well, trying not to be irksome, I suspect he gave her what you could not.

His time.
His attention.

You are likely very busy, have always been busy. It is the nature of your job, especially early on in a Physician's career.

He has daughters. Do you two have children? Does she want children?

Looks are not always important. Money certainly is. 
If and when you divorce your wife she will find that out. I suspect she will need to work full time to support her new family, if it goes to that.

She may be in a fog and is enjoying both worlds, the nice one you provide and the cozy passionate one the 'poor' POSOM provides.
Normally, it is the good looking, wealthy doctor who steals another man's wife.

Either way, welcome to life and yes life can suck.

Sorry you are here.


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## donesies

Thanks. I did take pictures of the journal entries. Not sure if I should send these to others at this point.

I would like to reconcile in theory but I don’t know if I can ever get over this. 

Also, my wife joined a “club” of sorts where she met this guy and this club seems to mean the world to her. She has some other good friends there but this guy is always there.

I feel like I would have to ask her to leave this club and there’s no way that she ever would. So I’m between a rock and a hard place. I don’t know that I can stay with her if she continues there.


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## As'laDain

donesies said:


> Thanks. I did take pictures of the journal entries. Not sure if I should send these to others at this point.
> 
> I would like to reconcile in theory but I don’t know if I can ever get over this.
> 
> Also, my wife joined a “club” of sorts where she met this guy and this club seems to mean the world to her. She has some other good friends there but this guy is always there.
> 
> I feel like I would have to ask her to leave this club and there’s no way that she ever would. So I’m between a rock and a hard place. I don’t know that I can stay with her if she continues there.


if you mean less to her than a club, then you need to start divorce proceedings. what kind of a marriage is built on such little devotion?


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## donesies

SunCMars said:


> Well, trying not to be irksome, I suspect he gave her what you could not.
> 
> His time.
> His attention.
> 
> You are likely very busy, have always been busy. It is the nature of your job, especially early on in a Physician's career.
> 
> He has daughters. Do you two have children? Does she want children?
> 
> Looks are not always important. Money certainly is.
> If and when you divorce your wife she will find that out. I suspect she will need to work full time to support her new family, if it goes to that.
> 
> She may be in a fog and is enjoying both worlds, the nice one you provide and the cozy passionate one the 'poor' POSOM provides.
> Normally, it is the good looking, wealthy doctor who steals another man's wife.
> 
> Either way, welcome to life and yes life can suck.
> 
> Sorry you are here.


Thank you.

Yes, that’s probably true. I wasn’t always there and wasn’t as attentive as I should have been.

We have no children, but we both want them. We tried for them, but she couldn’t have them, despite thousands of dollars spend on IVF. We then sort of gave up. That was a couple years ago.

We are both young - early 30’s


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## donesies

As'laDain said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I did take pictures of the journal entries. Not sure if I should send these to others at this point.
> 
> I would like to reconcile in theory but I don’t know if I can ever get over this.
> 
> Also, my wife joined a “club” of sorts where she met this guy and this club seems to mean the world to her. She has some other good friends there but this guy is always there.
> 
> I feel like I would have to ask her to leave this club and there’s no way that she ever would. So I’m between a rock and a hard place. I don’t know that I can stay with her if she continues there.
> 
> 
> 
> if you mean less to her than a club, then you need to start divorce proceedings. what kind of a marriage is built on such little devotion?
Click to expand...

The club gives her a sense of belonging and they will commonly take videos and pictures of her and do interviews with her to promote her on social media which makes her feel important.


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## Chaparral

Whatever you want the best thing to do is immediately file for divorce. You will either quickly rip the bandaid off and move on with your life or the shock will get to her and she will beg for forgiveness. Playing nice and showing weakness always results in a drawn out struggle and ends in divorce anyway.

She absolutely has to go 100% no contact with him There is no other option.

I would ask her how Valentines was with her boyfriend and tell her I was going to see a divorce lawyer today and then refuse to answer the phone or texts.


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## farsidejunky

donesies said:


> The club gives her a sense of belonging and they will commonly take videos and pictures of her and do interviews with her to promote her on social media which makes her feel important.


Life is hard when you have to give up what you love after using it to start an affair.


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## Mizzbak

Does your wife write about anything outside of having feelings for this man? Are they actually having romantic interactions of any kind? Does this other man even know how she feels? 

What does your wife do with her days that gives her any sense of purpose? (Aside from this "club"?)

Finding out something like this tends to completely destroy any romantic illusions that we may have had about our spouse. If you take a cold, hard look at your marriage, was it making you happy before you knew what you now know? (Happy, not just content.)


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## rrrbbbttt

Totally agree with Chaparral. Also implement the 180 for you.

You stated earlier you wanted to Reconcile, that is the wrong mindset for you. She broke it she has to fix it and earn the the right of Reconciliation from you


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## donesies

Mizzbak said:


> Does your wife write about anything outside of having feelings for this man? Are they actually having romantic interactions of any kind? Does this other man even know how she feels?
> 
> What does your wife do with her days that gives her any sense of purpose? (Aside from this "club"?)
> 
> Finding out something like this tends to completely destroy any romantic illusions that we may have had about our spouse. If you take a cold, hard look at your marriage, was it making you happy before you knew what you now know? (Happy, not just content.)


Yes - it talks about how his touch feels and the physical chemistry they have. Does mention kissing (in our house when I wasn’t there), but stops at that. Yes, the other man knows. She teaches music privately out of our home.

I can’t say that I was 100% happy, but I did/do love her and want a life with her.


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## zookeeper

Sorry for your pain.

I'm steadfastly against reconciliation for my own selfish reasons. I know I would never he able to fully trust that person again and I refuse to live such a life. Without trust there can be no intimacy and that is something I refuse to endure. 

You've got some soul searching to do. Your wife's character has been exposed and you know the ugly truth. Read the accounts on this board and see how some poor souls compromise their happiness by remaining with someone who has betrayed them. They follow them around, break into their emails, place hidden recording devices, etc. All in a never ending quest to prove that which can't be proven - that their spouse is no longer cheating. Is that the life you want? It's not for me.


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## Chaparral

I’m guessing she thinks you will be paying for her and him to live happily ever after. What state do you live in?


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## Chaparral

By the way, after you call your lawyer, call his wife. Cheating married husbands almost never want to leave their families.


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## The Middleman

donesies said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, that’s probably true. I wasn’t always there and wasn’t as attentive as I should have been.
> 
> We have no children, but we both want them. We tried for them, but she couldn’t have them, despite thousands of dollars spend on IVF. We then sort of gave up. That was a couple years ago.
> 
> We are both young - early 30’s


At this point, with no children, seriously consider cutting your losses and go for divorce. You can reconcile later, but don’t allow her to do it from the comfort of a marriage, she needs to work for it. Despite you being busy, that is not an excuse for having sex with another man. Contact an attorney and protect yourself.


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## donesies

Chaparral said:


> I’m guessing she thinks you will be paying for her and him to live happily ever after. What state do you live in?


We’re in a no-fault state 

I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


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## donesies

Should I confront her with what I know?


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## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


Let her be out for blood, you didn't cheat! 

There's reasons that we don't tell the other persons' spouse, reasons that we make up in our head that serve as excuses. Animosity, it's not right, why should they be brought into this, it will affect our efforts to reconcile, etc, etc. The bottom line is that it's fear, fear is the reason deep down inside you don't want to.

Trust me, it took me 5 months to get the balls to do it and by then .... it was WAAY too late. I consider myself a humble man who values family and my faith over all else. I thought it was vengeful and vindictive to tell the OP's spouse but then I realized it was selfish that I didn't. By withholding that information, you are effectively putting the OP's spouse and a huge disadvantage. Time to break the deceit circle. Then, as the Vets will tell you on here, the only way to actually get your wife back if you do want to reconcile, is to tell the Other Spouse. 9 times out of 10 when you keep the secret and confront your spouse, the cheaters take it further underground. 

I would wait to hear the other opinions from the Vets on her about exposing now. It seems like you have enough evidence but it doesn't sound like you are confident enough yet to confront because when you do, she is going to minimize, trickle truth and put it all back on you and you are likely to fold. I folded on 2 separate Discovery Days for crying out loud and it was me asking for another chance. It took me almost 7 months to finally take charge of my life and see her for who she was but again, by then, it was too late and she wanted out, even if she couldn't be with her lover anymore, she didn't want to be with me.

If this were me and knowing what I know now, these would be my actionable items in no particular order, sorting will be up to you.

1. Get counseling
2. See a lawyer (this actually might be a good first step for you since you are concerned about assets and being raked over the coals)
3. Get your ducks in a row evidence wise, maybe even put some surveillance stuff up in your home, it's so cheap and easy to implement nowadays and use it for the purpose of 'home security'
4. Once you have your ducks in a row, politely and with real concern, tell the OM's spouse. Even if you don't want to, she deserves to know

I can tell by your state of mind, you are a lot like me when I was after the first discovery day, it's normal but you will need to get a lot stronger. We have 2 kids, 6 and 10 so it complicated matters quite a bit for me and she did a great job in the marriage and during the time she was denying that it was a big affair that the reason she wanted out was because of my not knowing how to love her, being incompatible, etc, etc. Be prepared for all of the cheater script dialog. It's going to hurt. 

And sorry man, it's a no brainer and I know it's a fear thing to as I allowed contact to go on because my wife and the AP had a sales-customer relationship. If she still wants to be in the marriage and if you do, no more club, seriously, no way around that. If the club is more important to you, then it's already over. You will hear excuses about the club too, like you can't control me, you cannot tell me who I can and cannot talk to, etc. That she is in it because you weren't giving her attention. Please take it all in but don't believe it. Marriage is 50/50 .... cheating is 100%


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## zookeeper

Personally, my confrontation would be divorce papers. 

If you choose to confront her in an effort to "fix' things, get ready for a healthy dose of blame reversal and gas lighting. If you are weak she will eat you alive. Remember, no matter what you did to contribute to disfunction in the marriage, the decision to cheat is hers and hers alone.


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## farsidejunky

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


Acting from a place of fear will get nothing. What has it gotten you this point?

If you keep doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you're getting.


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## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.
> 
> It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more.
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young daughters.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??


*"That's when she lets her guard down and allows her buttons to be so easily pushed. She very quickly runs off and has an affair with a man who, by pretty much everyone's standard, is a total loser.

Everyone: 'I don't get it… Him?!'

Sure, her affair partner may not be gainfully employed, may live in his parents' basement, may drive a ****ty car and may have a criminal record… but he's fun, interesting, and something about him pushes her buttons. He makes her feel sexy. He taps into something that makes her 'feel alive' again. He allows her to temporarily strip herself of the boring veneer of 'wife' and 'mom'. The societal pressure is miraculously lifted from her shoulders, one orgasm at a time. 

He's her lover. He is no provider. She knows that. That's precisely what she likes about him.

Next thing you know, she is wiping the marriage scoreboard clean. All those provider points you have earned over the years mean exactly zero when somebody comes along and pushes those oft-neglected 'time to have sex' buttons of hers. 

Men who are left by their wives start listing all the wonderful things they did as provider for her and the family. He's building the case for why her affair is completely irrational.

The wife's reaction: 'Yeah… So?'"

*
Your story is so textbook, it's like I wrote the above just for you (it's from my book). You ain't alone, my friend. *Read.*


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## Chaparral

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


The other man’s wife deserves to know as much as you do. It doesn’t matter how mad your wife gets. Shock and awe works best. It’s been proven in thousands of threads here. Otherwise you will slowly be totrtured to your breaking point. She will do one of two things. Break down and beg forgiveness or play you.

I’m guessing he takes what he wants and you take what she is dishing out. BLOW THIS UP ASAP


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## donesies

dadstartingover said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.
> 
> It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more.
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young daughters.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??
> 
> 
> 
> *"That's when she lets her guard down and allows her buttons to be so easily pushed. She very quickly runs off and has an affair with a man who, by pretty much everyone's standard, is a total loser.
> 
> Everyone: 'I don't get it… Him?!'
> 
> Sure, her affair partner may not be gainfully employed, may live in his parents' basement, may drive a ****ty car and may have a criminal record… but he's fun, interesting, and something about him pushes her buttons. He makes her feel sexy. He taps into something that makes her 'feel alive' again. He allows her to temporarily strip herself of the boring veneer of 'wife' and 'mom'. The societal pressure is miraculously lifted from her shoulders, one orgasm at a time.
> 
> He's her lover. He is no provider. She knows that. That's precisely what she likes about him.
> 
> Next thing you know, she is wiping the marriage scoreboard clean. All those provider points you have earned over the years mean exactly zero when somebody comes along and pushes those oft-neglected 'time to have sex' buttons of hers.
> 
> Men who are left by their wives start listing all the wonderful things they did as provider for her and the family. He's building the case for why her affair is completely irrational.
> 
> The wife's reaction: 'Yeah… So?'"
> 
> *
> Your story is so textbook, it's like I wrote the above just for you (it's from my book). You ain't alone, my friend. *Read.*
Click to expand...

Geeez...

It’s so disgusting and unsettling. Do they (the wife that runs off with the dude) typically end up regretting it?


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## ButtPunch

If you are want another shot at this, then blow it up. Tell the OM's wife.

If you are divorcing, then wait to tell OM's spouse. Just file for divorce.
Don't make her bitter she lost her boyfriend. She will take it out on you.

In my opinion, especially without any kids, you need to be looking hard at divorce.


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## donesies

ButtPunch said:


> If you are want another shot at this, then blow it up. Tell the OM's wife.
> 
> If you are divorcing, then wait to tell OM's spouse. Just file for divorce.
> Don't make her bitter she lost her boyfriend. She wil take it out on you.
> 
> In my opinion, especially without any kids, you need to be looking hard at divorce.


I took all night thinking about it. I am going to file. After I file, I am seriously debating telling the OM’s wife.


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## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> I took all night thinking about it. I am going to file. After I file, I am seriously debating telling the OM’s wife.


You need to tell her but you have to time it right.


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## samyeagar

donesies said:


> Geeez...
> 
> It’s so disgusting and unsettling. Do they (the wife that runs off with the dude) typically end up regretting it?


Depends on what you mean by regret. Regret being caught? Regret losing the life style? Regret losing the social status? Yes. Regret losing the man who was their husband? No.


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## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> Geeez...
> 
> It’s so disgusting and unsettling. Do they (the wife that runs off with the dude) typically end up regretting it?


Sometimes yes and sometimes no. I am about 5-6 months away from the divorce being finalized. She can't get away fast enough. She either wants to have her lover or the rebound guy that will help her forget about her lover if he doesn't leave his wife. But the bottom line, is that the longer it goes on, the harder it will be to ever break free from it.

The thing I still don't get to this day but at least have come to terms with it is the rational or logical thinking, no matter what we say or think, even though it's sane and rational will not hold a candle to what the Emotional wife is doing. She has justified everything in her head already, re-written your marriage history and pulled in a select few friends that will support her cause and 'understand' her.

My STBX is very stubborn and hates to admit when she is wrong. I think one day she will be remorseful but she has some deep seeded internal issues in the form of demons that she hasn't confronted to this day and may not ever and if she doesn't she will keep doing what she is doing and getting quick happy fixes without realizing the fix has to be within herself. I'm hopeful she gets it one day and I want her to but I can no longer depend on that. I sure as heck won't know until she breaks free from contact of him as a customer, until then the chemicals will keep pumping that keep her wanting him. 

Sorry, got off on a tangent there. I think from what I have read most end up with some sort of remorse, the question is when and how much. Regretting it? My wife said to the OM in one of her texts, she doesn't regret anything she did, she just regrets not ending it with me sooner. I know in the heart of the affair many emotions and things said to oneself can be stuff to make them feel better but regretting it is one step much further than remorse and I think less see regret than remorse but it could still happen. By then, it usually doesn't matter from what I read. The betrayed spouse themself has already moved on from the cheater and found new trusting love. I think that is when regret happens when the Wayward spouse is dumped out of the Affair relationship or between stints and sees their faithful former spouse happy and moved on.


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## Mizzbak

donesies,

I am so sorry for your pain.

What are you hoping to get from confrontation at this point? A reasonable explanation for her behaviour? Because what you're going to get (I can guarantee it) is someone who says that this is your fault for not being there for her enough. Or not noticing that she was really unhappy. Because frankly, if she truly felt bad about it right now, she wouldn't be doing it.

The advice here is often harsh ... and may seem extreme. Especially when your state of mind is as it is now (where you might still want to try and hold onto the comfort of what you thought was real). And yes, filing for divorce, or even seeing an attorney, does seem like an extreme action ... in a normal marriage. But, if you think about the facts of the situation, your wife has decided that she loves another man and is acting on that, even within your own home. Your actions from this point should simply be logical reactions to her behaviour.


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## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


No sir, it will stop the affair. The OM W will be your eyes and ears. Further, would you want to know? I'm sure OM W would like to know. Tell the OM wife. Do not tell your W you are doing it. Your W will alert OM and then the fabricated stories can be created. You are crazy, etc. 

Get to a lawyer asap. Start the D rolling. This make reality become very clear for your WW.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.
> 
> It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more.
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young daughters.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??


Are you certain she did not want you to find the journal because she was to much of a coward to tell it to your face?

That being said finding out on Valentines day your wife's heart belongs to another is a real bombshell. I suggest you do the following to return the favor:

Do not confront her yet.

See a lawyer and take expert advice to protect your assets and future earnings and have divorce papers drawn up. Prepare multiple copies of incriminating journal entries and prepare list of all close family and friends. Have her served divorce papers at the group meeting. At the same time send those journal copies to all immediate close friends and family explaining why you are divorcing. Wait by the location while she is served. When she starts blowing up your phone do not answer calls or texts. When she exits the group meeting place hand her a packed suitcase along with copies of her journal entries and simply wish her the best with the new love of her life and walk away. 

As prep work on day she is served make sure to cancel all joint accounts especially credit cards and banking. Even Amazon Prime and Netflix. Everything. Don't forget Life insurance and 401K. Also have all her crap moved into storage with one month payed up front. If the law in your area allows change the locks on the house. If she insists on moving back in remove all her crap from bedroom and padlock bedroom door. 

Sir, you have only been married 7 years and she has strayed. Despite what ever her excuses will be she has been cruel and disloyal. Don't validate 30 years from now that this particular leopard cannot change it's spots and spend the rest of your life paying crippling alimony payments.

Dump her and fast. Plenty of loyal women out there who would love to be the partner of a successful doctor and the high income life that brings along.


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## Malaise

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since* it will probably just incur animosity* and she may be out for blood in a divorce


Because she loves and respects you so much now.


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## Mommame2

You're a physician. You have the capacity to make a lot of money.

She has the capacity to cheat. If you R now, who's to say she won't do it again?

The longer you stay, the more of your $$ she leaves with. File for D, you can always change your mind later.

Best of luck, and I'm so sorry. 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> I took all night thinking about it. I am going to file. After I file, I am seriously debating telling the OM’s wife.


Do it! OM should not get off free and easy. OM W should know who she is married to. Do not tell your W you are exposing. 

Exposure is your best friend at the moment. Do not play the pick me dance. File D and serve. These make the fog lift and the rainbow crapping unicorns affair go away.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Should I confront her with what I know?


NO! Play dumb until all your ducks are in a row.


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## Rob_1

OP: right now you are in shock and can't think straight, but listen to what is being said here.
You are in the position of being able to divorce while there are no children. Do it. And expose, expose, just time it with serving her. Do not be afraid, this is one of those moments in life where you need to really, really grasp your balls and act decidedly, and with confidence. Let her fight you. You live in a no fault state. Get the best pitbull lawyer that you can get and you go for the yugular.

Please, do not go into the "pick me" dance, that's the worst you can do. She'll lose any little respect she might still have for you. Shock and awe my friend, go for it, be the man you know you are.


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## snerg

Why stay?
Why allow them to disrespect you?
Why allow yourself to be treated like this?
Why listen to another lie?

1) First and foremost, your spouse is a person of low character 
2) Second - The affair is not nor will it ever be your fault
3) Lawyer. Today. Know your rights. Start the Divorce. Start to get primary rights to your kids (if you have some). You can always stop the process in the future
4) Doctor - get STD/STI/HIV tests started. Your life depends on it!
5) Counselor for you. One that has experience with infidelity. You're going to need to talk with someone about this
6) Eat.
7) Sleep (at least 8 hours a night if possible)
8) Drink water (avoid alcohol at this point, it won't help)
9) Get to gym and start working out - it helps the body, the mind, and the soul
10) Start to separate funds
11) 180 like your life depended on it.
12) DNA your kids. Not so much to see if they are yours (hopefully they are), but to show her that you can't trust anything about her (again, if you have them)
13) Expose. Lies thrive in the dark.
14) Don't know who originally posted it, but they are a genius:

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end, let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse, and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with, wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## Yeswecan

And, to be sure, this is not your fault. Sure, you are very busy at work and perhaps the attention was lacking but...a spouse should advise and work on the issue and not make a piss poor CHOICE by starting an affair. That is not the answer to the marital issue at hand. 

Not your fault sir. None of it. Poor choice on your W part is the problem.


----------



## Windwalker

OP,

You have a bad combination there. You probably spend quite a bit of time working, and your wife seeks validation from outside sources. There's a name for that kind of woman.

Your best option is to file. Keep your mouth shut and your eyes open. Get your ducks in a row and file. 

After the divorce is final notify the OM W and send copies of the journal to her and all family members on both sides. This keeps her from trashing your name and serves the exposure as well.


----------



## ButtPunch

Play dumb and file.

Let the process server do the talking for you.


----------



## Chaparral

Waiting to expose for financial reasons is pure unadulterated selfishness. The other family is heading for the rocks. His wife deserves to know so she can try and reconcile or kick him to the curb. Not exposing is becoming a third party to the affair. 

Waiting for an attorneys advice will get you advice that makes it easier on the attorney and strip you of what’s left of your backbone. If you want to have any chance at reconcilliation you have to blow the affair up. Personally I would go shock and awe, divorce her deceitful heart and find a woman that can have babies.

Regarding money, most states that pretty much cut and dried. Of course she is going try and fleece you. She works part time.


----------



## Tron

No kids. In love with another man. Best to just divorce IMO. Why waste 5 years of your life trying to fix something that's so broken and still winding up with a woman you cant really trust. 

Strategically speaking, if you are committed to divorcing, don't blow anything up. Just divorce. Your attorney is going to give you the exact same advice: 

- Don't rock the boat. 
- She is in the fog with this guy. Take advantage of it. 
- Get the best deal you can while she is in la-la land.
- If you destroy the relationship with the OM right now, she will either (1) start having second thoughts and slow the D down or (2) get desperate or angry and try to take you to the cleaners

If you want to reconcile, then the strategy changes.


----------



## ButtPunch

Tron said:


> No kids. In love with another man. Best to just divorce IMO. Why waste 5 years of your life trying to fix something that's so broken and still winding up with a woman you cant really trust.
> 
> Strategically speaking, if you are committed to divorcing, don't blow anything up. Just divorce. Your attorney is going to give you the exact same advice:
> 
> - Don't rock the boat.
> - She is in the fog with this guy. Take advantage of it.
> - Get the best deal you can while she is in la-la land.
> - If you destroy the relationship with the OM right now, she will either (1) start having second thoughts and slow the D down or (2) get desperate or angry and try to take you to the cleaners
> 
> If you want to reconcile, then the strategy changes.


This is good advice.

No kids

No brainer


----------



## Steve1000

donesies said:


> Should I confront her with what I know?


Whenever you confront her, do NOT tell her how you know. You never want to let her know the source of your information because then she will know what you 'do not know'.


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> What do I do??


Drop her like a rock.


----------



## Primrose

Let's just take a moment to be grateful you did not procreate with this woman. You have a chance to walk out of this marriage very easily and relatively unscathed, financially. No child support. I assume you have not been married very long as you are both still young, so alimony (if any) will be short lived. 

You are a hard worker and I assume you love hard because your initial reaction was to give her another chance. Your wife does not deserve you. Find another woman who will not take you for granted. A woman who will bear your children and be thankful for all that you do. 

However, the OM's wife absolutely deserves to know so that she can make an informed decision, regarding her future, with all of the facts. If the situation was reversed, and she knew of the affair, would you not want her to tell you?


----------



## donny64

You should get better evidence if possible. You appear to have the financial means. Hire a PI.

References in a journal to loving another man, or even references to having sex with another man....she will tell you it was "just a fantasy" and nothing happened. Get a PI, and have him get hard evidence.

See a divorce attorney and get him ready to file. Once you have firm evidence (you may have enough for yourself now, but not enough that she won't try to refute it, and not enough to convince OM's wife), have her served. When you know she has been served, notify the OM's wife and present her with the hard evidence you've obtained.

If you will consider reconciliation, this is the way to do it. You are going for shock and awe....completely blowing this affair out of the water so it is dead...dead....dead. At the same time, her marriage is also dead.

Losing everything in an instant has a way of really striking home what someone has done and lost.

If she does the right things, you can always put a stop to divorce proceedings later. You'll have about 6 months. By then you will KNOW if you are ready to cut her lose for good, or if she is showing you and doing for you the things required for reconciliation.


----------



## re16

You will never be able to fully trust her again, it will never be the relationship you wanted.

There is likely a lot more you don't know about.

You are lucky that there a no kids in the picture.

Divorce, find someone that respects all the effort you've put into your life, have kids and the happy life you wanted.

I would spend a little time gathering more evidence while you talk to attorneys and get the filing ready before you confront. It may further solidify your decision and if you confront immediately, you may miss the chance to find more information and she likely won't reveal it all on her own.

Get your ducks in a row and strike hard and fast, tell the OM's wife right before you confront your wife, so she doesn't have time to warn OM and he gaslights his wife or they collaborate to make you look like the bad guy.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies, if I am correct, you are in a residency program. That means that in one to five years, you will be making some serious money. I therefore, urge you to terminate your marriage to this obviously incredibly stupid woman, before your earnings are such that she can attach a pot full. Nope. I am the father of a physician. The demarcation between residency and practice is a gigantic uptick in your income (say immediate quadruplication). Get rid of your cheating wife before this. By f**king around on you, she has just messed her life up beyond all recognition. Unless loverboy is single and a physician, then she is screwed blewed tattooed and SOL. 

Do not do any pick me dance or for that matter do not offer the gift of reconciliation. Let me put it this way, my kid had a classmate. He was older in med school, as he was a paramedic first. He was married and had a kid. His wife, to put it bluntly, was ignorant trailer trash. So, he is killing himself to become a physician, and she is feeling neglected. He tells her that it is only a few years, but she has gotten deaf. So, he finds out about the affair. She's sleeping with a shipping dock foreman. He leaves, and divorces her. Because he is a student, and generally broke, no financial settlement whatsoever. (I said she was as dumb as a sack of hammers.)

So, he graduates and is lucky enough to get a residency in Internal Medicine. He goes into a gigantic practice. Shortly thereafter, his income grows to the mid-six-figures. He was picking up his kid in his old beater until a few months in practice. Then he starts picking up his kid, in his new Mercedes. Ex Wife and her boyfriend are googly eyed. She spots his new watch. Rolex President. Finally, she croaks out, "Did you win the lottery?" He goes, no I am in practice as a doctor and specialist, you walked out on me when I was broke, and you had no concept of what I was going to make. Your new guy, makes, what? Maybe 30K a year? Honey, you had better sit down. I make $450K. She remarks, you have to be ****ting me? Their daughter pipes up: Mummy, daddy's house is giant-size. Mommy is truly stupid, and runs to the computer to google physician's salaries. She turns away from the computer, and says, guess I'm the stupidest woman on the planet. (Truly, who does not know that a physician makes great money-but, as I say, she was backward trash, and trash is as trash does-ended up kicking herself.) As she said, If I waited five years, I could have had this? (looking at his Mercedes) Instead, I am in a two bedroom apartment with this idiot.

KARMA CRASH


----------



## donny64

And blowing this up and walking away is the best way to accomplish two things:

1. A real chance at reconciliation (if that's what you want AND what she earns).

2. Getting out of this whole thing with your dignity and sanity intact if she doesn't "hard stop" the affair and do what she needs to do with you to earn her chance at reconciliation immediately.

If you read through these forums, it is ALWAYS the guys who blow things up and just walk away that leave their cheating wives a remorseful, snot bubble blowing and crying mess curled up on the floor and saying they will "do anything" to make it right.

It is always the guys who play the "pick me game" who wind up with wives who blame shift, gaslight, deny, and continue on in their affairs after the initial storm dies down.

She loves you (maybe not enough to prevent this instance of selfishness, but she probably does, and likely does not want to lose you), and seeing you walk away will wake her up, snap her out of her fog, and have an impact like nothing else will. You off in your hotel room, staying with family, or out of town on vacation, while hundreds of her panicked calls and texts go unanswered by you. And since you will have blown up OM's world at the same time and his wife will be climbing all over his ass, he will be unavailable to her as well. She'll be left there alone with nothing but freshly printed divorce papers on the coffee table to keep her company and help her reflect on her pizz poor decisions. And instead of spending her time thinking about lover boy, she now is consumed with thoughts of just what exactly you are doing now that she has been discovered cheating. She will be left with thoughts of YOU possibly out looking for a fresh piece of tail to replace her with? Are you in a bar talking up pretty women? Are you taking a nurse out on a date? See what I mean? You won't be, but she will naturally think you may be! Boy toy loser affair partner gets relegated to the mental trash heap REAL QUICK when she is consumed with thoughts of what you are doing and possibly losing you to another woman.

Time to gather the evidence, blow things up, and get her mind consumed with thoughts of you....not him.

And once you snap out of the shock of this whole thing, you will be light years ahead of those guys who are mired in the quagmire they created with an unremorseful and continually cheating wife by trying to play the pick me game, and instead you'll be ready to start a fresh life with a better woman should she chose to not get her crap together.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donny64 said:


> And blowing this up and walking away is the best way to accomplish two things:
> 
> 1. A real chance at reconciliation (if that's what you want AND what she earns).
> 
> 2. Getting out of this whole thing with your dignity and sanity intact if she doesn't "hard stop" the affair and do what she needs to do with you to earn her chance at reconciliation immediately.
> 
> If you read through these forums, it is ALWAYS the guys who blow things up and just walk away that leave their cheating wives a remorseful, snot bubble blowing and crying mess curled up on the floor and saying they will "do anything" to make it right.
> 
> *It is always the guys who play the "pick me game" who wind up with wives who blame shift, gaslight, deny, and continue on in their affairs after the initial storm dies down.
> *
> She loves you (maybe not enough to prevent this instance of selfishness, but she probably does, and likely does not want to lose you), and seeing you walk away will wake her up, snap her out of her fog, and have an impact like nothing else will. You off in your hotel room, staying with family, or out of town on vacation, while hundreds of her panicked calls and texts go unanswered by you. And since you will have blown up OM's world at the same time and his wife will be climbing all over his ass, he will be unavailable to her as well. She'll be left there alone with nothing but freshly printed divorce papers on the coffee table to keep her company and help her reflect on her pizz poor decisions. And instead of spending her time thinking about lover boy, she now is consumed with thoughts of just what exactly you are doing now that she has been discovered cheating. She will be left with thoughts of YOU possibly out looking for a fresh piece of tail to replace her with? Are you in a bar talking up pretty women? Are you taking a nurse out on a date? See what I mean? You won't be, but she will naturally think you may be! Boy toy loser affair partner gets relegated to the mental trash heap REAL QUICK when she is consumed with thoughts of what you are doing and possibly losing you to another woman.
> 
> Time to gather the evidence, blow things up, and get her mind consumed with thoughts of you....not him.
> 
> And once you snap out of the shock of this whole thing, you will be light years ahead of those guys who are mired in the quagmire they created with an unremorseful and continually cheating wife by trying to play the pick me game, and instead you'll be ready to start a fresh life with a better woman should she chose to not get her crap together.


Me for 6 months and long story short, even after all of that she was the one that wanted the divorce .... after my 6 months of pick me, I'll do anything, did anything and became another statistic.


----------



## thedope

1. You have to tell the other guys wife. If you were in a similar situation you'd want them to tell you. You are morally obligated to do so, even though your attorney will advise against it. Do the right thing.

2. Have her served preferably while she is at this club meeting.

If you want to give her a wake up call this will do it. You are a doctor for gods sake most women would love to be with you. Just realize that doesn't entitle you to be a d-bag.


----------



## drifting on

Two things I would do,
1) file for divorce, list adultery and OM as the reason. Have her served at the club. 

2) after she is served, drop by the club asking to make a video regarding infidelity between club members. That should drive your point home.

After having her served and before the club visit to make a video, get your lawyer to have all the papers signed as quickly as possible. Once she has signed to all agreements then expose to OM’s wife, the club, family, friends, letting all of them know what she is. Then sit back and live life grand.


----------



## Walloped

Just wanted to say I’m sorry you’re going through this.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young children.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??


She married you for the security, status and easy life. She looks up to you and sees you as an authority figure. You took the place of her dad when she married you. We call it the Reverse Madonna Wh0re complex. 

The OM is beneath her, and so she can manipulate him and have him do her bidding. She doesn't have to put on airs with him the way she does with you, because her worth and status as a wife and mother are not tied to him. It's called compartmentalization. 

As for how she feels about him, most of what she "feels" is not really love...it is limerance...a psychological addiction to the feel-good chemicals he produces in her when he seduces her and courts her. 

The best thing you can do is document everything, find out if the OM is married, and go see a lawyer for a free consult to find out your rights and what to expect in a divorce. Then if you decide to divorce, have the petition filed and served without her knowing. Then send out an announcement o her family and yours telling them she has been cheating on you and you are leaving her sorry butt. If he is married, tell his wife. Do all of this in one fell swoop...known as going "nuclear". This is the best and fastest way to end an affair and knock a wayward out of the "fog".


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

donesies said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, that’s probably true. I wasn’t always there and wasn’t as attentive as I should have been.
> 
> We have no children, but we both want them. We tried for them, but she couldn’t have them, despite thousands of dollars spend on IVF. We then sort of gave up. That was a couple years ago.
> 
> We are both young - early 30’s


Not to sound dismissive, but with no kids and in your early 30's, I think the smart thing to do is divorce her. It will be a a$$-load easier than reconciling or trying to. In another year you will have a new girl and be happy. Reconcile and it may be another 5 years before you get to a good place. Be glad that the IVF thing didn't work out.


----------



## BobSimmons

donesies said:


> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> 
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic (sic), talented, and in great shape (run marathons).


Sir, you really should take some time off! The thought of a *high-earning and respected physician* making life and death decisions when his life is in turmoil is really risky.

Please think about your patients at this time, your charasma may mask your pain but not your judgement!


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


She won't get blood even if she is out for it! You haven't been married that long, you have no kids, and she won't get alimony because she's able to work. Assuming she has a good attorney she'll get half of whatever your marital assets are, but at your age you haven't earned most of them yet so she'll get the crumbs. Personally, I'd start spending those marital assets (go on vacation, do some gambling, fancy dinners out) so there isn't much left to split. My ex-wife did the same thing as yours. She was there for all of my schooling, residency, and the early part of my career then cheated with a total loser and I divorced her ASAP, which coincidentally was right at the time I was really getting established but before I had accumulated a lot of assets. It is justice if you leave her now and she won't profit much from it. Plus, now that you are ready for a career you'll be a much better catch for other women and you'll be able to upgrade. 

Having gone through what you are, I can tell you that you are in shock and not thinking straight. It is very hard to be rejected and the natural tendency is to grasp to hold the relationship together because that is what you are used to and that is what is normal to you. What I'd recommend is for you to grow a set of cojones and confiscate her diary and put it in a safety deposit box that she can't access. Then every time you are feeling weak, read parts of it until you get angry enough again to proceed with divorce. I kept my XW's audio of her having sex with the OM (now deleted) and wrote a journal and they helped me move forward whenever I doubted my course of action. 

Get recommendations and hire the BEST divorce attorney in the area. Then don't discuss things with your wife, just file for divorce and have her served. The less time she has to process what is going on and the more emotional it become for her, the less able she will be to think straight and fight you on it.


----------



## sokillme

donesies said:


> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.
> 
> It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more.
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young children.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??



It has nothing to do with you, she is broken. 

How old are you? Do you have kids?

By the way they say people affair down but the truth is they affair to their own level, it's just the spouse usually has a skewed picture of who there cheating spouse is. This is usually because they lie and are really good at it.

The people who take strong action usually do the best and heal the fastest.


----------



## Evinrude58

Taxman said:


> Donesies, if I am correct, you are in a residency program. That means that in one to five years, you will be making some serious money. I therefore, urge you to terminate your marriage to this obviously incredibly stupid woman, before your earnings are such that she can attach a pot full. Nope. I am the father of a physician. The demarcation between residency and practice is a gigantic uptick in your income (say immediate quadruplication). Get rid of your cheating wife before this. By f**king around on you, she has just messed her life up beyond all recognition. Unless loverboy is single and a physician, then she is screwed blewed tattooed and SOL.
> 
> Do not do any pick me dance or for that matter do not offer the gift of reconciliation. Let me put it this way, my kid had a classmate. He was older in med school, as he was a paramedic first. He was married and had a kid. His wife, to put it bluntly, was ignorant trailer trash. So, he is killing himself to become a physician, and she is feeling neglected. He tells her that it is only a few years, but she has gotten deaf. So, he finds out about the affair. She's sleeping with a shipping dock foreman. He leaves, and divorces her. Because he is a student, and generally broke, no financial settlement whatsoever. (I said she was as dumb as a sack of hammers.)
> 
> So, he graduates and is lucky enough to get a residency in Internal Medicine. He goes into a gigantic practice. Shortly thereafter, his income grows to the mid-six-figures. He was picking up his kid in his old beater until a few months in practice. Then he starts picking up his kid, in his new Mercedes. Ex Wife and her boyfriend are googly eyed. She spots his new watch. Rolex President. Finally, she croaks out, "Did you win the lottery?" He goes, no I am in practice as a doctor and specialist, you walked out on me when I was broke, and you had no concept of what I was going to make. Your new guy, makes, what? Maybe 30K a year? Honey, you had better sit down. I make $450K. She remarks, you have to be ****ting me? Their daughter pipes up: Mummy, daddy's house is giant-size. Mommy is truly stupid, and runs to the computer to google physician's salaries. She turns away from the computer, and says, guess I'm the stupidest woman on the planet. (Truly, who does not know that a physician makes great money-but, as I say, she was backward trash, and trash is as trash does-ended up kicking herself.) As she said, If I waited five years, I could have had this? (looking at his Mercedes) Instead, I am in a two bedroom apartment with this idiot.
> 
> KARMA CRASH


At which time, she gets a lawyer to take him back to court to raise child support, the guy gets hammered for 10k a month, and she lives for 18 years or so in high cotton.
I don't know if this story has the ending that's so grand...

But, it sounds great... lol


----------



## donesies

Taxman said:


> Donesies, if I am correct, you are in a residency program. That means that in one to five years, you will be making some serious money. I therefore, urge you to terminate your marriage to this obviously incredibly stupid woman, before your earnings are such that she can attach a pot full. Nope. I am the father of a physician. The demarcation between residency and practice is a gigantic uptick in your income (say immediate quadruplication). Get rid of your cheating wife before this. By f**king around on you, she has just messed her life up beyond all recognition. Unless loverboy is single and a physician, then she is screwed blewed tattooed and SOL.
> 
> Do not do any pick me dance or for that matter do not offer the gift of reconciliation. Let me put it this way, my kid had a classmate. He was older in med school, as he was a paramedic first. He was married and had a kid. His wife, to put it bluntly, was ignorant trailer trash. So, he is killing himself to become a physician, and she is feeling neglected. He tells her that it is only a few years, but she has gotten deaf. So, he finds out about the affair. She's sleeping with a shipping dock foreman. He leaves, and divorces her. Because he is a student, and generally broke, no financial settlement whatsoever. (I said she was as dumb as a sack of hammers.)
> 
> So, he graduates and is lucky enough to get a residency in Internal Medicine. He goes into a gigantic practice. Shortly thereafter, his income grows to the mid-six-figures. He was picking up his kid in his old beater until a few months in practice. Then he starts picking up his kid, in his new Mercedes. Ex Wife and her boyfriend are googly eyed. She spots his new watch. Rolex President. Finally, she croaks out, "Did you win the lottery?" He goes, no I am in practice as a doctor and specialist, you walked out on me when I was broke, and you had no concept of what I was going to make. Your new guy, makes, what? Maybe 30K a year? Honey, you had better sit down. I make $450K. She remarks, you have to be ****ting me? Their daughter pipes up: Mummy, daddy's house is giant-size. Mommy is truly stupid, and runs to the computer to google physician's salaries. She turns away from the computer, and says, guess I'm the stupidest woman on the planet. (Truly, who does not know that a physician makes great money-but, as I say, she was backward trash, and trash is as trash does-ended up kicking herself.) As she said, If I waited five years, I could have had this? (looking at his Mercedes) Instead, I am in a two bedroom apartment with this idiot.
> 
> KARMA CRASH


I'm already an attending physician, but have only been out of training for a year. We have just finishing paying off all of our debt, but haven't accumulated very much yet. Salary in the 800 range. This other guy in the 30s or maybe even lower with a wife who doesn't work and 3 kids.

I spoke to a lawyer today. Will file immediately. I have not yet confronted my wife. I am still on the fence about telling the OM's W. I kind of want them to blow this up on their own. In the end, my alimony is going to pay for this guy getting a better life. Sucks.


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## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I'm already an attending physician, but have only been out of training for a year. We have just finishing paying off all of our debt, but haven't accumulated very much yet. Salary in the 800 range. This other guy in the 30s or maybe even lower with a wife who doesn't work and 3 kids.
> 
> I spoke to a lawyer today. Will file immediately. I have not yet confronted my wife. I am still on the fence about telling the OM's W. I kind of want them to blow this up on their own. In the end, my alimony is going to pay for this guy getting a better life. Sucks.


Good that you are filing. 

But I think you have a moral obligation to tell OM's wife. How would you feel if everyone knew about your wife's affair but decided to just play it cool and not say anything? Think about it. That woman is being held in a prison of infidelity, and she may not even have a clue. She is being abused and victimized whether she is aware of it or not.


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## Marc878

donesies said:


> We’re in a no-fault state
> 
> I think bringing it up to the OM’s spouse is a bad idea since it will probably just incur animosity and she may be out for blood in a divorce


Typical betrayed spouse syndrome. Being affraid at this time will make this worse.

Your lack of actions here will only enable the affair further.

Doormats get walked on.

Better wake up!!!!


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## donesies

Bananapeel said:


> She won't get blood even if she is out for it! You haven't been married that long, you have no kids, and she won't get alimony because she's able to work. Assuming she has a good attorney she'll get half of whatever your marital assets are, but at your age you haven't earned most of them yet so she'll get the crumbs. Personally, I'd start spending those marital assets (go on vacation, do some gambling, fancy dinners out) so there isn't much left to split. My ex-wife did the same thing as yours. She was there for all of my schooling, residency, and the early part of my career then cheated with a total loser and I divorced her ASAP, which coincidentally was right at the time I was really getting established but before I had accumulated a lot of assets. It is justice if you leave her now and she won't profit much from it. Plus, now that you are ready for a career you'll be a much better catch for other women and you'll be able to upgrade.
> 
> Having gone through what you are, I can tell you that you are in shock and not thinking straight. It is very hard to be rejected and the natural tendency is to grasp to hold the relationship together because that is what you are used to and that is what is normal to you. What I'd recommend is for you to grow a set of cojones and confiscate her diary and put it in a safety deposit box that she can't access. Then every time you are feeling weak, read parts of it until you get angry enough again to proceed with divorce. I kept my XW's audio of her having sex with the OM (now deleted) and wrote a journal and they helped me move forward whenever I doubted my course of action.
> 
> Get recommendations and hire the BEST divorce attorney in the area. Then don't discuss things with your wife, just file for divorce and have her served. The less time she has to process what is going on and the more emotional it become for her, the less able she will be to think straight and fight you on it.


Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How did things turn out for you?

My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her


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## Thor

As far as exposure, I strongly endorse it, but be very selfish for a short while. Do what is best for you in the divorce. For example, my W wanted the D right now no delay. That was in my favor! Your W may be in love, and thus may not fight too hard. The easier she goes away, the better it is for you.

When the divorce is settled, you can expose to OM's W.

The exceptions would be if you know of a significant harm to OM's W, such as your W having a serious disease like HIV. The other exception might be if your state takes a long time for D, like a year. In that case your stbxw will come down off her endorphin high well before the D is finalized. Delaying exposure isn't going to avoid stbxw trying to get every penny out of you.

Don't accept alimony as a given. You may be able to use her cheating as leverage. She goes away easily with a smaller lump sum and there's no need to drag everything out into the open. Also, if she's been spending money on OM then you can claim it back as "wasting of marital assets".

What I would do is start with a reasonable but low offer. Tell her you just want her to be happy and free. See if she bites. If not, you have the financial wherewithall to make life miserable for her. Claim back whatever she spent on OM even if it isn't a lot of money. If your state has the option of claiming fault, file for infidelity and name the OM. Claim that she had little to do with your earning your professional credentials, so she has little claim on your future income. Claim that her infidelity disqualifies her from alimony. Create doubt about your future income stream. Many of these things are not likely to win if you argue it in court, but prosecutors use this strategy to wear down the defendant so that they'll just cave before court. If you can offer her an easy way out she may take it.

I'll even say that at your income level I would pay a generous but mathematically justified lump sum to get her to go away, rather than paying alimony. You have plenty of time to earn it back.


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## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> I'm already an attending physician, but have only been out of training for a year. We have just finishing paying off all of our debt, but haven't accumulated very much yet. Salary in the 800 range. This other guy in the 30s or maybe even lower with a wife who doesn't work and 3 kids.
> 
> I spoke to a lawyer today. Will file immediately. I have not yet confronted my wife. I am still on the fence about telling the OM's W. I kind of want them to blow this up on their own. In the end, my alimony is going to pay for this guy getting a better life. Sucks.


You’ve been married well under 10 years, so it shouldn’t be *too* bad, and it certainly shouldn’t be permanent. And hey, no child support.

And with a salary like that, I’d spend whatever it took to keep it as low as possible. Hell, I’d rather pay lawyers than a cheating wife.

Damn I hope you don’t live in Commifornia.


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## GusPolinski

Bananapeel said:


> She won't get blood even if she is out for it! You haven't been married that long, you have no kids, and she won't get alimony because she's able to work. Assuming she has a good attorney she'll get half of whatever your marital assets are, but at your age you haven't earned most of them yet so she'll get the crumbs. Personally, I'd start spending those marital assets (go on vacation, do some gambling, fancy dinners out) so there isn't much left to split. My ex-wife did the same thing as yours. She was there for all of my schooling, residency, and the early part of my career then cheated with a total loser and I divorced her ASAP, which coincidentally was right at the time I was really getting established but before I had accumulated a lot of assets. It is justice if you leave her now and she won't profit much from it. Plus, now that you are ready for a career you'll be a much better catch for other women and you'll be able to upgrade.
> 
> Having gone through what you are, I can tell you that you are in shock and not thinking straight. It is very hard to be rejected and the natural tendency is to grasp to hold the relationship together because that is what you are used to and that is what is normal to you. What I'd recommend is for you to grow a set of cojones and confiscate her diary and put it in a safety deposit box that she can't access. Then every time you are feeling weak, read parts of it until you get angry enough again to proceed with divorce. I kept my XW's audio of her having sex with the OM (now deleted) and wrote a journal and they helped me move forward whenever I doubted my course of action.
> 
> Get recommendations and hire the BEST divorce attorney in the area. Then don't discuss things with your wife, just file for divorce and have her served. The less time she has to process what is going on and the more emotional it become for her, the less able she will be to think straight and fight you on it.


 @donesies, read ^this^ over and over and over.
@Bananapeel handled his ex’s affair and the subsequent divorce about as well as anyone anywhere ever has.

And whether you’re religious or not, drop your knees and give thanks to Almighty God that your STBXW was stupid enough to actually commit the details of her affair to a journal.


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## donesies

I want to take a second to say that you guys have been the most amazing support. I can't imagine how you all came together and I appreciate everything that you're doing for me.


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## Marc878

donesies said:


> Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How dwid things turn out for you?
> 
> *My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her*


Shes also a damn cheater.

You're young and I can guarantee you there'll be so many women to pick from you won't believe it.

Cut the victim bull****. You'll be more than fine


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## Taxman

Donesies, one thought that you were still in residency. Therefore, in consultation with your attorney, look for strategies to secure assets. Your income in a no fault situation is attackable. Given that you were married during training, and dependent on her employment situation, you may have spousal support issues. I would also consult your CPA. Make sure you have your legal ducks in a row, then expose, and determine where you want to go with this. Remember, YOU ARE THE INJURED PARTY IN THIS.


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## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How did things turn out for you?
> 
> My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her


Enough of that pathetic bull****.

You got her. You’ll get another.

Just make sure that the next one is more than just a pretty face. There’s no subsiltitution for character and integrity.

Oh, and don’t even think about getting married again without insisting on a rock-solid pre-nup.


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## donesies

@GusPolinski and @Marc878

You guys are f*$% awesome. I needed to hear that


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## just got it 55

donesies said:


> I took all night thinking about it. I am going to file. After I file, I am seriously debating telling the OM’s wife.


OP Look where debating gets us in politics

Actions are what get things done

Clear and Present Detachment Emotionally and Financially

180 her ass hard

Oh and yeah EXPOSE & FILE

55


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## SUCKA

I found out the same in October. I would collect as much evidence as you can and stash it outside of your home in a safe place. I would consult a divorce attorney for advice. Scour cell phone records and computers and most of all take care of yourself and your mental health. It is a very devastating blow and you need time to recover.


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## sokillme

Read some of those threads I posted. All of those people did what you are doing and went on to much better lives. You bought a lemon, it happens, but there are plenty of good women out there. 

Your wife is broken, so it has nothing to do with you. She probably is just entitled. Sometimes I think you can be too nice to your spouse and they turn you into a parent. Especially if you provide everything for them and let them live a life of a child with little responsibility. Did your wife ever work full time? 

You should tell his wife because it is the moral thing to do, besides he isn't going to leave his wife for yours, he has 3 kids. And your wife isn't really going to want him, he has 3 kids. Both of them are in la la land. If it was you wouldn't you want to know?

Don't be surprised when she puts the hard press on you after you file. Just remember you don't have kids yet you can start over fresh. People like your wife are broken like alcoholics which means they need to do lots of hard work and are always susceptible to relapse. Life is much easier with someone who you can trust. 

You should still check your picker to make sure you are better at seeing the signs next time. Maybe get some IC and read some books about codependency. Maybe even some after the affair type books so you can see the patterns and identify them quicker. 

I know this is hard but trust all of us you will fell joy again. I know it doesn't seem like it but I goes completely away as soon as you fall in love with someone else. All that is left is a more cautious you, which is a good thing.


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## Marc878

donesies said:


> @GusPolinski and @Marc878
> 
> You guys are f*$% awesome. I needed to hear that


Good, now apply the advice fully.

The only one that could keep you in this is you.

Take yourself out of the equation.


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## VibrantWings

Stop footing the bill for everything she wants and I bet she gets a new attitude....about you and him. 

She's got too much time on her hands. He fills that time. 

Stop putting up with this **** from her.


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## TX-SC

Not really much to add, except that you appear to have your wife's looks foremost in your mind. Surely, by now you realize that there is so much more to look for in a wife than looks. Being a doctor and a generally good guy, you won't have any issues finding someone to spend time with.

You, of all people, should realize the fragility of life. Don't waste yours with someone who wants someone else. Divorce and move on.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## WilliamM

...


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## donesies

SUCKA said:


> I found out the same in October. I would collect as much evidence as you can and stash it outside of your home in a safe place. I would consult a divorce attorney for advice. Scour cell phone records and computers and most of all take care of yourself and your mental health. It is a very devastating blow and you need time to recover.


So funny you would mention that. My lawyer said the same thing. I pulled up the records and she literally spends more than an hour a day talking to this guy on the phone

Taking care of my physical health is no problem. I have one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone I know. However, mental health: what do you suggest I do there?


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## donesies

sokillme said:


> Read some of those threads I posted. All of those people did what you are doing and went on to much better lives. You bought a lemon, it happens, but there are plenty of good women out there.
> 
> Your wife is broken, so it has nothing to do with you. She probably is just entitled. Sometimes I think you can be too nice to your spouse and they turn you into a parent. Especially if you provide everything for them and let them live a life of a child with little responsibility. Did your wife ever work full time?
> 
> You should tell his wife because it is the moral thing to do, besides he isn't going to leave his wife for yours, he has 3 kids. And your wife isn't really going to want him, he has 3 kids. Both of them are in la la land. If it was you wouldn't you want to know?
> 
> Don't be surprised when she puts the hard press on you after you file. Just remember you don't have kids yet you can start over fresh. People like your wife are broken like alcoholics which means they need to do lots of hard work and are always susceptible to relapse. Life is much easier with someone who you can trust.
> 
> You should still check your picker to make sure you are better at seeing the signs next time. Maybe get some IC and read some books about codependency. Maybe even some after the affair type books so you can see the patterns and identify them quicker.
> 
> I know this is hard but trust all of us you will fell joy again. I know it doesn't seem like it but I goes completely away as soon as you fall in love with someone else. All that is left is a more cautious you, which is a good thing.


You asked me if she has ever had a full-time job. I never really thought about that question, but she actually did for one year and she never let me hear the end of it. She complained how bad it was and how I made her get that job and it was all my fault 

Right now, she teaches for about 15 hours a week and then she spends the rest of the time at this club and she actually once told me (and I’m not making this up): I do so much at that place, that I consider myself full-time. Nevermind the fact that she pays to be there.

Hell if you count all of the community service I do outside of my job, I work like 100 hours a week


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## WilliamM

...


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## sokillme

donesies said:


> You asked me if she has ever had a full-time job. I never really thought about that question, but she actually did for one year and she never let me hear the end of it. She complained how bad it was and how I made her get that job and it was all my fault
> 
> Right now, she teaches for about 15 hours a week and then she spends the rest of the time at this club and she actually once told me (and I’m not making this up): I do so much at that place, that I consider myself full-time. Nevermind the fact that she pays to be there.
> 
> Hell if you count all of the community service I do outside of my job, I work like 100 hours a week


Maybe you're her father, like she just transferred that role to you. She is a rebellious teen acting out with her boyfriend.


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## WilliamM

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## Elizabeth001

donesies said:


> So funny you would mention that. My lawyer said the same thing. I pulled up the records and she literally spends more than an hour a day talking to this guy on the phone
> 
> Taking care of my physical health is no problem. I have one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone I know. However, mental health: what do you suggest I do there?




Find someone to talk to, be it a therapist or a good friend that you trust. Don’t just shove it down. You’re going to go through many phases and you’ll need a plan. It helps to have someone to bounce ideas off of, even if it’s just you hearing your own words and not just spinning tons of stuff through your head. We think a lot faster than we speak. Talking through it helps that process slow down and will give you a better chance at making the right decisions instead of acting out of emotion. And letting it get the best of you. Good luck...this a great place to start 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roselyn

donesies said:


> Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How did things turn out for you?
> 
> My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her


You're a physician and you know very well that beauty is only skin deep. Old age or an accident can take that away from you quickly. If you stay in this marriage, you'll eventually grow to hate your wife as you see the ugliness inside. Be done with her and start a new life.


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## Rhubarb

donesies said:


> Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How did things turn out for you?
> 
> My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her


A guy like you? Good job, in shape etc.....It will be like flies to honey. Just make sure you vet them well. You don't want to end up in the same situation again. If they are also divorced, find out why. Have a talk about fidelity make sure they know where you stand, and more importantly make sure you know where they stand and makes sure they are being honest.


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## Rhubarb

donesies said:


> You asked me if she has ever had a full-time job. I never really thought about that question, but she actually did for one year and she never let me hear the end of it. She complained how bad it was and how I made her get that job and it was all my fault
> 
> Right now, she teaches for about 15 hours a week and then she spends the rest of the time at this club and she actually once told me (and I’m not making this up): I do so much at that place, that I consider myself full-time. Nevermind the fact that she pays to be there.
> 
> Hell if you count all of the community service I do outside of my job, I work like 100 hours a week


Ahhh well, you have an "entitled" wife .... Not a good sign. Best to dump her anyway. My wife is now working on starting a business. She's mentally an ass kicker and she's in great physical shape too. I married her after my ex cheated. You can find someone better too.


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## Tatsuhiko

I predict that she's going to get very desperate and nasty when you file. She does not want to give up her comfy life and she'll scratch your eyes out to keep it. She'll deny everything written in the journal as some kind of fantasy love novel she's writing. While you know that what she wrote is true, I think you should get evidence that she cannot deny and that can be used as leverage later. You might entertain the idea of having a PI follow her for a few days and get some photographs of her activities.


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## Malaise

Tatsuhiko said:


> I predict that she's going to get very desperate and nasty when you file. She does not want to give up her comfy life and she'll scratch your eyes out to keep it. She'll deny everything written in the journal as some kind of fantasy love novel she's writing. While you know that what she wrote is true, *I think you should get evidence that she cannot deny and that can be used as leverage later. You might entertain the idea of having a PI follow her for a few days and get some photographs of her activities*.


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## Chaparral

I agree with getting the PI. He can also be used to give a report to Posom’s wife. Your attorney should be able to recommend someone.


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## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> I'm already an attending physician, but have only been out of training for a year. We have just finishing paying off all of our debt, but haven't accumulated very much yet. Salary in the 800 range. This other guy in the 30s or maybe even lower with a wife who doesn't work and 3 kids.
> 
> I spoke to a lawyer today. Will file immediately. I have not yet confronted my wife. I am still on the fence about telling the OM's W. I kind of want them to blow this up on their own.  In the end, my alimony is going to pay for this guy getting a better life. Sucks.


Ask your lawyer about the alimony laws and you might be surprised that you won't owe any, or at worst just short term. What I did is I knew my wife was too emotional about the loss of her marriage and her boyfriend (I told his wife) to properly function, and I knew she was always a bad negotiator, so I just told her that I'd prefer to split our money rather than pay it to attorneys and then asked her what she wanted. She threw out a number that was less than 20% of the marital assets, which I agreed to. Then I had my attorney amicably write up the settlement for both of us, of course with no alimony, and child support based off her earning potential instead of her actual earnings (because she wasn't working full time). In case you aren't good at negotiating, you always ask the other person to throw out the first number. If the number is in your favor then you work off of that. If it is not in your favor then hire a much better lawyer than she can afford and let the lawyer battle it out until she gives up. 

As far as the mental health aspect, I went to counseling for the first time in my life. Luckily, the guy that was recommended to me was excellent and after a half dozen visits he told me I had a good handle on things and that I didn't need to come back. Basically, the counselor helped me to see that I was always a good husband and kept up my end of the marriage agreement and didn't fail in my marriage obligation. The failure was solely on my wife's side and made her someone that was below my standards for a wife, so I felt good with the decision to divorce. Divorced life has been excellent for me and I don't regret my decision to DTB at all. Make sure you get a good counselor and it will speed up the healing process.


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## WilliamM

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## Emerging Buddhist

donesies said:


> Hell if you count all of the community service I do outside of my job, I work like 100 hours a week


You might want to consider curbing that back a little in your next relationship if you can... cheating was a choice on her part and the destruction to the marriage that she must own, but attention to one's spouse is a choice too.


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## WilliamM

...


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## bandit.45

She knew the score when she married the OP...that he was a doctor and that doctors work long hours. 

I have very little compassion for people ball and squall about never having time with their spouses, when they chose to marry medical workers, police or military personnel, who's jobs take them away from home for long periods of time.


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## Emerging Buddhist

bandit.45 said:


> She knew the score when she married the OP...that he was a doctor and that doctors work long hours.
> 
> I have very little compassion for people ball and squall about never having time with their spouses, when they chose to marry medical workers, police or military personnel, who's jobs take them away from home for long periods of time.


I'm not excusing anything... just mentioning how it plays a factor regardless.


Also, when I mention his future relationships... it could easily be with the wife he has now but let there be no doubt that it will have be different in order to succeed.


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## Chaparral

When a wife has an affair and falls in love with the Posom she usually cuts way back on sex with her husband assuming of course they had a normal sex life in the first place. If it stays the same or increases she is usually in the affair for kicks and giggles.

With this kind of betrayal and no possibility of kids I only see divorce as an option. I’m also wondering if she is fantasizing about be at least a part time mom to his kids. Not being able to have kids has no doubt messed up her head.


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## re16

Keep in mind that her actions are a reflection of her only, not you.

To the same extent, your actions now are a reflection of only who you are. Operate with force, integrity, and accountability.

You know that you should inform the OM's wife, it is the right thing to do.

Your criteria for your WW's replacement should be smarter, younger, honest and more attractive. Don't let her rejection of you sway your opinion of yourself. She's made a significant mistake she will regret for eternity.

Two years from now life will be so good you'll look back on losing your current wife as the golden moment when your life got really good.

Stay strong.


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## MyRevelation

I'm going to disagree with the majority here on this issue of timing of exposure. OP owes no duty to OMW, legally or morally, ... his primary duty is to protect himself and his assets, future earnings. He has seen an attorney and papers are being drawn up. Once he has WW's signature on the property settlement, THEN expose to OMW. Doing so too early, will just piss off WW and make her much more difficult to deal with in settlement negotiations.


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## eric1

I think you've done an amazing job taking control of the situation. Nobody wants to be in bad situations. Who we are is defined but how we deal with adversity. 

I also agree with exposure. It's a moral certainty that you have to but the timing is important. If you are 100% committed to divorce (which I would also vet through a therapist) then MyRevalation is correct - time it to take advantage of the settlement. Most people however are not 100% certain at this point. If there is ANY chance that you want reconciliation then your goals are

1. to confront her and demand no contact
2. expose almost immediately afterwards to the other wife

In addition to having a teammate watching on the other end you can use this to verify no contact. If she somehow finds out you have exposed then you know that there was never no contact in place from the beginning. 

We are here to support you!!!


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## Tatsuhiko

MyRevelation said:


> I'm going to disagree with the majority here on this issue of timing of exposure. OP owes no duty to OMW, legally or morally, ... his primary duty is to protect himself and his assets, future earnings. He has seen an attorney and papers are being drawn up. Once he has WW's signature on the property settlement, THEN expose to OMW. Doing so too early, will just piss off WW and make her much more difficult to deal with in settlement negotiations.


This is a sensible way to handle things. She'll be more likely to sign a generous divorce agreement while she's still "in love" and believes in a future life of unicorns and rainbows with this guy (albeit purchased on food stamps). But after that, you DO have a moral obligation to tell someone if their house is on fire. You'd hope they'd do the same for you, after all. 

It's likely that she hasn't considered the full ramifications of losing you. Her financial security, social standing, and membership in the club are important things to her. Once she realizes these are disappearing, it will rock her world to the core. After begging doesn't work, she might become very hostile. In your dealings with her it will be a good idea to carry a VAR (voice-activated recorder) or use the free one on your smartphone. You can check with your attorney if recordings like this are admissible in court.


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## GusPolinski

MyRevelation said:


> I'm going to disagree with the majority here on this issue of timing of exposure. *OP owes no duty to OMW*, legally or *morally*, ... his primary duty is to protect himself and his assets, future earnings. He has seen an attorney and papers are being drawn up. Once he has WW's signature on the property settlement, THEN expose to OMW. Doing so too early, will just piss off WW and make her much more difficult to deal with in settlement negotiations.


Disagree.

Still, you make valid points with respect to timing.


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## Thor

One of the factors to consider in R would be a serious rock solid post-nup. Alimony becomes a bigger issue the longer the marriage. If you R with her, and then you divorce 5 years down the road (maybe she cheats again), alimony is going to be huge and last a long time. I personally would never stay with a cheater or someone disloyal/dishonest. I would D her, and then if for some reason in the future you get back together you could eventually consider a new marriage, which would reset the alimony clock. Either way, a post-nup now if you R, or a pre-nup with any future marriage.

If she has barely worked during your marriage, I think there is a logical argument that she barely contributed towards your current and future earnings. Plus, she is the one who broke the marriage via infidelity. So she should have little claim to your income. While this may not be an argument likely to sway a judge, it is something to ask your lawyer about. It would go along with whether to hire a PI to get admissible evidence and whether to file for fault.

Don't be Nice! She deserves nothing from you. The law will say differently, but you need to look at this as a business legal issue. Do what gets you the best outcome. I would include a quick resolution to be better than dragged out, as it will reduce your emotional distress.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Thor said:


> One of the factors to consider in R would be a serious rock solid post-nup. Alimony becomes a bigger issue the longer the marriage. If you R with her, and then you divorce 5 years down the road (maybe she cheats again), alimony is going to be huge and last a long time. I personally would never stay with a cheater or someone disloyal/dishonest. I would D her, and then if for some reason in the future you get back together you could eventually consider a new marriage, which would reset the alimony clock. Either way, a post-nup now if you R, or a pre-nup with any future marriage.
> 
> If she has barely worked during your marriage, I think there is a logical argument that she barely contributed towards your current and future earnings. Plus, she is the one who broke the marriage via infidelity. So she should have little claim to your income. While this may not be an argument likely to sway a judge, it is something to ask your lawyer about. It would go along with whether to hire a PI to get admissible evidence and whether to file for fault.
> 
> Don't be Nice! She deserves nothing from you. The law will say differently, but you need to look at this as a business legal issue. Do what gets you the best outcome. I would include a quick resolution to be better than dragged out, as it will reduce your emotional distress.


Thor bring up a really good point, if you are serious in R and if she will do anything to prove her desire to not only repent but also prove that she is not in it for the money ...then offer this

divorce her, stay together but offer her a remarriage with the a prenup....is she loves you this will prove it. if she says no then what she has demonstrated she is only in this marriage for a the easy life. 

this way you know she wants you and not your paycheck.


----------



## dubsey

Lostinthought61 said:


> Thor bring up a really good point, if you are serious in R and if she will do anything to prove her desire to not only repent but also prove that she is not in it for the money ...then offer this
> 
> divorce her, stay together but offer her a remarriage with the a prenup....is she loves you this will prove it. if she says no then what she has demonstrated she is only in this marriage for a the easy life.
> 
> this way you know she wants you and not your paycheck.


or just never re-marry and live together happy, if you get to that point. I'm with my wife/exwife now. Have been for several years, but she knows I'll never marry her again.


----------



## Lostinthought61

dubsey said:


> or just never re-marry and live together happy, if you get to that point. I'm with my wife/exwife now. Have been for several years, but she knows I'll never marry her again.


but does your state recognize common law wife and husband after a certain period of time?


----------



## dubsey

No, it doesn't. It wouldn't matter anyway. She still keeps a separate home in her name only.


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## JayDee7

Let her go, you’re young and will find a good woman worthy of your love. Why waste another minute with this woman, she threw away your trust and relationship. Find peace in the hand she dealt you, and make it work for you. You don’t want to live the rest of your life wondering, this will eat at you forever.


----------



## Dyokemm

MyRevelation said:


> I'm going to disagree with the majority here on this issue of timing of exposure. OP owes no duty to OMW, legally or morally, ... his primary duty is to protect himself and his assets, future earnings. He has seen an attorney and papers are being drawn up. Once he has WW's signature on the property settlement, THEN expose to OMW. Doing so too early, will just piss off WW and make her much more difficult to deal with in settlement negotiations.


And I’m going to disagree with this......but please don’t take it as snarky or hostile.

Here is my reasoning.....

One.....I think anyone going into a D should ASSUME it will get hostile and confrontational until clear, irrefutable, and lasting evidence to the contrary comes to light......and this should go double for a BS dealing with a lying, selfish cheater.....why should OP takes steps based on the belief his cake-eating, entitled WW is going to appreciate his kindness and play nice?

Two.....leaving POSOM unscathed while his D proceeds allows the turd to provide support to the WW.....being a little busy body assistant helping her to get all her ducks in a row.....being a potential ‘plotter’ to help WW craft schemes to annoy or harass OP, heck maybe even helping to ‘confirm’ false DV charges as her ‘friend’.....or just even as an emotional support to WW to keep her grounded/focused so she is less likely to make mistakes of her own in the process......

But if OP informs this POSOM’s BW at the same time he hammers his WW with D papers?........this scumbag will most likely disappear on WW like a fart in the wind to scramble to save his own a** with his BW, so he doesn’t lose all his assets and his children......right when OP’s WW will most want and need boytoy’s support and advice, he will vanish......and her Fantasyland hopes and dreams will crumble as fast as her cushy life.

OP’s WW will be left flailing, uncertain of what to do, and probably desperately begging to do anything to save her M....

OP will have complete power to choose the path he wants.....

EXPOSE the A right now......blow up Fantasyland!!!!!


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## chillymorn69

Just star an exit plan.

See a lawyer know your rights. Start moving things to your favor for the divorce. 

Gather evidence.

Gather important papers...marriage lic,bank statements, value of tangible assets..etc etc

Go to a councilors get your head on straight. 

Then implement your plan.

Once you file start throwing yourself into your work keep busy and things will work out.


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## NoChoice

donesies said:


> Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How did things turn out for you?
> 
> My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that *I wonder if I can ever find another like her*


Why would you desire to? Your wife is insecure and unsure of herself. She needs validation from multiple outside sources to gain self worth. You cannot repair this flaw in her, even being a surgeon. You cannot now nor would you ever be able to give her what she "needs" (read wants) because only she can do that and she does not even recognize the problem. She has no integrity, no honor and certainly no empathy for your feelings. She only has concerns for her and her "feelings".

People like her are a paradox indeed in that they consider themselves above all others as most important and yet they behave in a way that wholly diminishes their character and reduces them to a pitiful excuse of a person in the very eyes of some in which they previously sought approval. Can you begin to see just how deeply flawed people such as that are?

In reality, they are missing a crucial part of their cognitive functionality. That part of the brain that many refer as the "heart" is severely retarded in its development thereby leaving them incapable of seeing and understanding anything but the physicality of their existence. Empathy, love, devotion and so forth are poorly understood concepts to them. They do not possess the ability to fully grasp that which we so clearly see.

I feel you would be best served by finding a woman who not only understands these principles but one who can also appreciate the sacrifices and impositions that your chosen profession can bring to a relationship. The right woman will prove invaluable to you as you endeavor to follow the footsteps of Hippocrates, a high calling indeed which carries its own unique set of burdens and stress. As a final piece of advice, look at the inner beauty of a woman and the outer appearance may pale in importance. I wish you strength and good fortune.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Hey doc, I think you are making the right choice. From experience and observation, it is difficult to reconcile, and many years later triggers still pop up and are painful to recall. Without kids involved, I think it is doubly difficult.

Your success does not come without drawbacks. One is that it's difficult to know if a woman loves you for you. I'm not sure if your wife struggled with you and supported you on your path, it seems from what you posted she has. Though her only having a full-time job for a year in the past 7, maybe she never had to struggle very much. You are a great guy and of course many women are going to want to be with you, however, as compared to when you were struggling, it's going to be harder to figure out which ones want you for you vs. you for wealth/prestige. You have been doing what you do professionally long enough, so I hope you have had your eyes open and noticed that you've been getting a lot more female attention. As I used to say, I'm a great, good-looking guy, but not that great, not that good-looking, to garner that attention.

Still, I hope you learn some lessons from your path. It seems it's easy to say that you will work long and hard and your wife will be understanding, but in practice it frequently doesn't turn out that way. The marriage is like a flower bed, it needs watering. My observation, my experience, my opinion only, is that men and women are different. Our bodies are different. Some behaviors are overwhelming one-sided. Violent crime, bank robbery for instance, is overwhelmingly done by males. Overwhelmingly males initiate first dates and pay. I could go on and on, but my point is that I've observed that many men show their love by providing. Working hard, taking pride in acquiring assets and sharing with the woman they love. I know for a fact that some women take that for granted, and don't put as much weight into it. Maybe their dads did the same for them, and they didn't want to be romantically and sexually involved with their dads. They don't necessarily consider the hard work as romantic/sexual love. Just something to consider in future relationships.

You only found out a couple of days ago. Depending on how much "gut" feeling you had, you must still be in a bit of shock. I refer this time, from now until you get started on the path you choose, as a roller coaster. Don't underestimate her ability to manipulate you, to pull at your heartstrings. Even if you question as to continuing toward divorce, I suggest going to the end. If you want to be with her after that, maybe she would be willing to sign a pre-nup.


----------



## donesies

I filled out all the paperwork yesterday and my lawyer will file on Tuesday. I’m saddened, but will not tolerate this. I love her and right now I want her back, but I am hoping that feeling with fade. I’m doing the 180. She’s out of town this weekend so I get to avoid her until the filing.


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## Betrayedone

chaparral said:


> whatever you want the best thing to do is immediately file for divorce. You will either quickly rip the bandaid off and move on with your life or the shock will get to her and she will beg for forgiveness. Playing nice and showing weakness always results in a drawn out struggle and ends in divorce anyway.
> 
> She absolutely has to go 100% no contact with him there is no other option.
> 
> I would ask her how valentines was with her boyfriend and tell her i was going to see a divorce lawyer today and then refuse to answer the phone or texts.


do this..........now!.............do this!


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Good work. Shock and awe is the best way to get resolution.

By any chance, is the other man also out of town? On a plane ticket purchased with your money?


----------



## donesies

Tatsuhiko said:


> Good work. Shock and awe is the best way to get resolution.
> 
> By any chance, is the other man also out of town? On a plane ticket purchased with your money?


Yes they are both out of town. I can’t prove that they are on a rendezvous but it wouldn’t surprise me. Yes, she spending my money


----------



## donesies

Betrayedone said:


> chaparral said:
> 
> 
> 
> whatever you want the best thing to do is immediately file for divorce. You will either quickly rip the bandaid off and move on with your life or the shock will get to her and she will beg for forgiveness. Playing nice and showing weakness always results in a drawn out struggle and ends in divorce anyway.
> 
> She absolutely has to go 100% no contact with him there is no other option.
> 
> I would ask her how valentines was with her boyfriend and tell her i was going to see a divorce lawyer today and then refuse to answer the phone or texts.
> 
> 
> 
> do this..........now!.............do this!
Click to expand...

It is already started. From discovery to filing for divorce will be less than a week. I will then ask her to leave and will pack up her stuff and get it to a storage unit.


----------



## thenub

Once she is gone, it would be a good time to cancel all joint credit cards and move half the money from joint bank accounts to one in your name only. You don’t need her blowing money on anyone. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lucy999

Sorry if this has been discussed already, but what did your attorney advise regarding money and credit cards, bank accounts and such?


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## Diana7

donesies said:


> Bandit: This is absolutely eerie. You and I are very similar. How did things turn out for you?
> 
> My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her


and look where being with a beautiful wife got you. Looks aren't everything.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

donesies said:


> Yes they are both out of town. I can’t prove that they are on a rendezvous but it wouldn’t surprise me. Yes, she spending my money


I would hire a PI in that city and have him get some photos. Just to show that you will not be made a fool of, and to get proof that can be shown to her family and friends when she paints you as irrationally jealous. There was a guy on another forum whose wife went on a "girls vacation" but was actually traveling with just her lover. He cancelled her ticket home to teach her a lesson and give himself more time to make preparations.


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## Betrayedone

Diana7 said:


> and look where being with a beautiful wife got you. Looks aren't everything.


God knows that's for sure......I've had some beauties that weren't worth a **** in my life.......


----------



## donesies

lucy999 said:


> Sorry if this has been discussed already, but what did your attorney advise regarding money and credit cards, bank accounts and such?


He essentially said just maintain the status quo until everything goes through.

There’s a form that essentially freezes asserts and prevents you from making any big changes in spending until everything goes through.

Btw, he did say that alimony was a virtual certainty, but that he thinks we can get some favorable terms and no more than 3 years.


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## Marc878

Better stay strong and get out of this. If you cave it'll be long term limbo. Infidelity is a life sentence. It never goes away.

Don't be like many and regret staying and going though it again.

You will get crocodile tears, lies, lies and more lies.

We never had sex just held hands, kissed, watched tv together, etc.

Or it was just sex, etc.

Inform the other mans wife. You will get some closure.


----------



## Malaise

Tatsuhiko said:


> *I would hire a PI in that city and have him get some photos. Just to show that you will not be made a fool of, and to get proof that can be shown to her family and friends when she paints you as irrationally jealous. *There was a guy on another forum whose wife went on a "girls vacation" but was actually traveling with just her lover. He cancelled her ticket home to teach her a lesson and give himself more time to make preparations.


You have the $$$ it appears to do this. 

Why not?


----------



## Diana7

Betrayedone said:


> God knows that's for sure......I've had some beauties that weren't worth a **** in my life.......


Yes and there are men who never seem to learn that. The thing is that very attractive women don't have to try too hard with men, so often they are emotionally shallow and have little real character because all their lives they have used their looks to get attention and what they want.


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## Red Sonja

Diana7 said:


> Yes and there are men who never seem to learn that. The thing is that very attractive women don't have to try too hard with men, so often they are emotionally shallow and have little real character because all their lives they have used their looks to get attention and what they want.


Meh ... the same thing can be said about _some _very attractive men. Bottom line is it's a character problem in _some __people _that isn't necessarily correlated with attractiveness levels.


----------



## Diana7

Red Sonja said:


> Meh ... the same thing can be said about _some _very attractive men. Bottom line is it's a character problem in _some __people _that isn't necessarily correlated with attractiveness levels.


Yes it can be said of very good looking men, in my experience they can often be arrogant and full of themselves, but I have noticed many times that its those who are more average looking or rather overweight who have the amazing personalities and often a brilliant sense of homour. I have heard this said quite a few times as well. Also it seems that the very attractive will have far more broken relationships/marriages than the more average looking people. You only have to look at the famous and attractive in Hollywood to see what a disastrous mess they make of their lives.


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## Jasel

Are your finances protected/safe??? You might want to get things in order to separate your finances from your wife if you haven't already. There have been more than a few WW who have cleaned out accounts and maxed out credit cards after D-Day. Or has your lawyer gone over that with you?


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> He essentially said just maintain the status quo until everything goes through.
> 
> There’s a form that essentially freezes asserts and prevents you from making any big changes in spending until everything goes through.
> 
> Btw, he did say that alimony was a virtual certainty, but that he thinks we can get some favorable terms and no more than 3 years.


Alimony just seems so unjust. There is no rational basis for it. The marriage is over, so the obligation should be, as well. 
If you need to pay her as a continuing marital obligation, does she in turn have the responsibility to continue whatever her "contribution" to the marriage was? (let's say it was housework...does she have to come over and clean your house and do your laundry for 3 years?...of course not! so where's the logic in this?)

But back to your point, you may want to have special "consultations" with the most shark-like divorce attorneys in town so that they can't represent her due to conflict of interest. I work with physicians on a daily basis, and I have seen this in their divorces.

I am also surprised at some of the income numbers posted in this thread. Taxman quotes $450k for internal medicine? That's amazingly high for that specialty. Here's a survey from the country's biggest physician recruiting company (the article is a year old, but should be relatively close): https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/compensation-issues/207-statistics-on-physician-compensation-2017.html

A salary in the 800k range--which is off the scale on the recruiter company survey above--- makes me think you are likely an orthopedic surgeon with a surgery center, ophthalmologist (again, with his own surgery center or LASIK center) or maybe an Interventional Radiologist. Or maybe a couple of other specialties that also own their own surgery center (plastic surgery?). The point is, you say you've been married for 7 years....I'm counting in my head the years of training required for these specialties, and trying figure if you were married during medical school. If so, she might try to claim she put you through medical school. In some states, such as New York, it is my understanding that the value of an advanced degree earned during the marriage may be regarded as community property. Your lawyer, if he is sharp, should guide you on this. But this is all the more reason to break it off ASAP in a final and LEGAL manner, and limit your liability. Also, if you do own some sort of practice asset, such as a surgery center, hopefully the founding documents of the entity are well-written enough to prevent a non-physician/non-partner from gaining any sort of ownership interest in it.


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## Andy1001

Red Sonja said:


> Meh ... the same thing can be said about _some _very attractive men. Bottom line is it's a character problem in _some __people _that isn't necessarily correlated with attractiveness levels.


People see beauty and mistake it for goodness.
Wrong!


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, that’s probably true. I wasn’t always there and wasn’t as attentive as I should have been.
> 
> We have no children, but we both want them. We tried for them, but she couldn’t have them, despite thousands of dollars spend on IVF. We then sort of gave up. That was a couple years ago.
> 
> We are both young - early 30’s


Take your share of the blame for the problems in the marriage but never for her cheating. So tired of hearing if the husband didn’t work so hard then the wife would not cheat. This is utter BS. A weak character with poor morals cheats.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Yes - it talks about how his touch feels and the physical chemistry they have. Does mention kissing (in our house when I wasn’t there), but stops at that. Yes, the other man knows. She teaches music privately out of our home.
> 
> I can’t say that I was 100% happy, but I did/do love her and want a life with her.


She brought him into your home?!? Why haven’t you dropped divorce papers on her yet?


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Geeez...
> 
> It’s so disgusting and unsettling. Do they (the wife that runs off with the dude) typically end up regretting it?


No


----------



## ABHale

You might want to move this thread to the private section.


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## VladDracul

donesies said:


> He essentially said just maintain the status quo until everything goes through.
> 
> There’s a form that essentially freezes asserts and prevents you from making any big changes in spending until everything goes through.


Exactly. I've seen a number of men try everything from moving money and joint investment out of her reach to canceling her medical and other insurance. They generally live to regret it.


----------



## Fenix

Hi Donesies. Sorry for your pain. I haven't read the other posts but just wanted to say that you are now in a well populated club. I am not a believer in 'forgiving and moving on', especially at your age. I do think cheating reoccurs. I suggest moving on, getting a divorce and rebuilding a life. You are young, smart, fit, a high earner and not a cheater. Cut her loose. Best of luck. Please know that no matter how much it hurts now, life will get better and in 4 years or so, you may be very thankful for your discovery.


----------



## Bobby5000

You wrote, "It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons)." Note in speaking about your relationship, you wrote about what you accomplished, not what she is or does. Like many men, you see your earnings at a sign of your love. While a marathon is a tremendous accomplishment, it does not really address her needs. 

If reconciliation is possible, it might involve a change. But you are like many high-earning men expecting the relationship to work simply because you are a high-achieving person and an excellent earner. Some of this cannot be changed. You probably work a basic 60 hours per week, then there are office issues and professional education. A physician friend told me he had 23 meetings and calls one day and when I asked which ones were critical, he said everyone given the nature of his practice. He returns calls each day. 

I think you have to address how to meet her needs within the context of your demanding practice. Maybe you can stay in shape but spend more time with her. Can you travel somewhere on weekends. 

Fortunately there are no children. You both have to evaluate where this is going. If there are to be no children and your high intensity practice cannot change, maybe you would be more compatible with a high-intensity real estate agent or a woman with her own career. It seems like she has a minor job that she does not need and is looking for emotional fulfillment.


----------



## Thor

donesies said:


> Btw, he did say that alimony was a virtual certainty, but that he thinks we can get some favorable terms and no more than 3 years.


3 years is a cakewalk. Fight to pay as little as possible, but in the end realize this is nothing compared to what it could have been if you'd lived in a different state or been married longer.


----------



## luxnoctis

donesies said:


> He essentially said just maintain the status quo until everything goes through.
> 
> There’s a form that essentially freezes asserts and prevents you from making any big changes in spending until everything goes through.
> 
> Btw, he did say that alimony was a virtual certainty, but that he thinks we can get some favorable terms and no more than 3 years.


Keep in mind Donesies that the new tax law is making alimony NOT deductible and NOT income for your spouse anymore...BUT this new law affects divorces or separation agreements that are signed in 2019 onward. If you're going to have to give her alimony for 3 years or so, make sure to get something signed before this year is up, so you can deduct alimony payments. 

Btw, I got alimony for 9 months from my ex-husband, mainly because he agreed to it. It's small, but it was to help me since I was in the middle of my master's degree. We were married for 5 years, I was a SAHM with 2 kids, one child was 1 year old. My lawyer told me that for example, if my ex fought alimony that it was 50/50 for going either way (getting vs not getting alimony for 9 months, non-modifiable) I explained to my ex that since he was withholding for me all year, being able to deduct the alimony would help offset the extra withholding. However, starting in 2019 that will no longer be the case. BTW stop withholding for 2 on your taxes now. If you divorce at any time during a tax year you are not allowed to claim your former spouse, even if you did support your spouse up until December 31st at midnight, which sucks. I felt like my ex should have been allowed to claim me because he supported me for more than half the year in which our divorce was final, but anyway. Because he has to pay child support, I asked for $400 in alimony each month and he has a 70k+ income. In total because he had to pay child support, I get a little less than half of what he makes each month. Keep in mind though, that during the marriage he was paying half his income for expenses for a 4 person family. So the money he pays for the kids and for me is taking place of what he normally paid for us anyway. It just means the divorce didn't eliminate all family expenses immediately, he basically had to maintain the status quo even after divorce. When the alimony payments expire, he will finally be rid of expenses directly related to me. 

My lawyer said the fact I was in the middle of school and had a 1 year old child was why alimony was even on the table despite a short marriage. If your wife isn't in school and is readily employable then her alimony case isn't going to be as strong, plus you have no kids. Make sure to get a non-modifiable alimony, because although you can't petition the courts to lower it later, on the flip side she can't petition to increase it when you make more money and/or at the same time she is "struggling" to find work. 

I feel like even if a state has no-fault divorce that proved cheating should definitely greatly lower or eliminate alimony payments. That being said, having been a stay at home mom and wife, who didn't want the divorce, I think a year of some amount of spousal support is reasonable, because the breadwinner suddenly asking for divorce shouldn't abruptly disrupt your life (financially anyway). A year to find a job and work, or keep working and pay off the unexpected expenses of moving, paying for a lawyer, and everything else, IMO, is a reasonable ask. 

However, a cheater makes their own bed...


----------



## luxnoctis

Thor said:


> 3 years is a cakewalk. Fight to pay as little as possible, but in the end realize this is nothing compared to what it could have been if you'd lived in a different state or been married longer.


In his tax bracket, higher alimony is actually better because it will reduce his taxes IF he signs something before the new tax law making alimony nondeductible in 2019.

Think of it this way, he had to pay expenses for his wife, but couldn't deduct them from his income. After the divorce he will pay expenses for his former wife, but will be able to deduct them.


----------



## Thor

luxnoctis said:


> In his tax bracket, higher alimony is actually better because it will reduce his taxes IF he signs something before the new tax law making alimony nondeductible in 2019.
> 
> Think of it this way, he had to pay expenses for his wife, but couldn't deduct them from his income. After the divorce he will pay expenses for his former wife, but will be able to deduct them.


Without getting into the morality of alimony, in my state alimony is forever after 20 yrs of marriage. No matter what. Cheating? Not a factor. Between 10 and 20 yrs of marriage, alimony is 1:1, meaning a 15 yr marriage will result in 15 yrs of alimony. 

The state does a straight 50/50 split of income. So for a doc making nearly $800k like donesies, he would be paying $400k per year in alimony!!!! If they were married 10 yrs exactly to the day, he would pay her that amount for 10 years. If they were married 20 years to the day, he would pay her that forever.

On top of all that, if she were a SAHM then she would almost certainly get custody of minor children, so he would have to pay substantial child support to her. She would of course get half of all assets including retirement savings, half the value of his private practice, etc.

Even if she cheated and wanted the divorce but he genuinely wanted to try to R. Too bad, she gets the divorce and all the free money.

It could have been a lot worse for the doc!


----------



## donesies

Jasel said:


> Are your finances protected/safe??? You might want to get things in order to separate your finances from your wife if you haven't already. There have been more than a few WW who have cleaned out accounts and maxed out credit cards after D-Day. Or has your lawyer gone over that with you?


He did. She does not know what’s coming and the filing next week will block her from doing anything major until the divorce goes through


----------



## donesies

Wolfman1968 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> He essentially said just maintain the status quo until everything goes through.
> 
> There’s a form that essentially freezes asserts and prevents you from making any big changes in spending until everything goes through.
> 
> Btw, he did say that alimony was a virtual certainty, but that he thinks we can get some favorable terms and no more than 3 years.
> 
> 
> 
> Alimony just seems so unjust. There is no rational basis for it. The marriage is over, so the obligation should be, as well.
> If you need to pay her as a continuing marital obligation, does she in turn have the responsibility to continue whatever her "contribution" to the marriage was? (let's say it was housework...does she have to come over and clean your house and do your laundry for 3 years?...of course not! so where's the logic in this?)
> 
> But back to your point, you may want to have special "consultations" with the most shark-like divorce attorneys in town so that they can't represent her due to conflict of interest. I work with physicians on a daily basis, and I have seen this in their divorces.
> 
> I am also surprised at some of the income numbers posted in this thread. Taxman quotes $450k for internal medicine? That's amazingly high for that specialty. Here's a survey from the country's biggest physician recruiting company (the article is a year old, but should be relatively close): https://www.beckershospitalreview.c...tatistics-on-physician-compensation-2017.html
> 
> A salary in the 800k range--which is off the scale on the recruiter company survey above--- makes me think you are likely an orthopedic surgeon with a surgery center, ophthalmologist (again, with his own surgery center or LASIK center) or maybe an Interventional Radiologist. Or maybe a couple of other specialties that also own their own surgery center (plastic surgery?). The point is, you say you've been married for 7 years....I'm counting in my head the years of training required for these specialties, and trying figure if you were married during medical school. If so, she might try to claim she put you through medical school. In some states, such as New York, it is my understanding that the value of an advanced degree earned during the marriage may be regarded as community property. Your lawyer, if he is sharp, should guide you on this. But this is all the more reason to break it off ASAP in a final and LEGAL manner, and limit your liability. Also, if you do own some sort of practice asset, such as a surgery center, hopefully the founding documents of the entity are well-written enough to prevent a non-physician/non-partner from gaining any sort of ownership interest in it.
Click to expand...

Alimony is a double-standard, I agree, but such is life

I have made appointments with the 2 big firms to block her out

We were not married until after medical school. Business assets are protected. No worries.


----------



## Suspicious1

Thor said:


> Without getting into the morality of alimony, in my state alimony is forever after 20 yrs of marriage. No matter what. Cheating? Not a factor. Between 10 and 20 yrs of marriage, alimony is 1:1, meaning a 15 yr marriage will result in 15 yrs of alimony.
> 
> The state does a straight 50/50 split of income. So for a doc making nearly $800k like donesies, he would be paying $400k per year in alimony!!!! If they were married 10 yrs exactly to the day, he would pay her that amount for 10 years. If they were married 20 years to the day, he would pay her that forever.
> 
> On top of all that, if she were a SAHM then she would almost certainly get custody of minor children, so he would have to pay substantial child support to her. She would of course get half of all assets including retirement savings, half the value of his private practice, etc.
> 
> Even if she cheated and wanted the divorce but he genuinely wanted to try to R. Too bad, she gets the divorce and all the free money.
> 
> It could have been a lot worse for the doc!


Holy moly what state is this? 





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## Thor

Suspicious1 said:


> Holy moly what state is this?


Utah


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## Suspicious1

Thor said:


> Utah


Interesting, seems more people get married in Utah than any other state, and much younger at that.



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## donesies

Bobby5000 said:


> You wrote, "It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons)." Note in speaking about your relationship, you wrote about what you accomplished, not what she is or does. Like many men, you see your earnings at a sign of your love. While a marathon is a tremendous accomplishment, it does not really address her needs.
> 
> If reconciliation is possible, it might involve a change. But you are like many high-earning men expecting the relationship to work simply because you are a high-achieving person and an excellent earner. Some of this cannot be changed. You probably work a basic 60 hours per week, then there are office issues and professional education. A physician friend told me he had 23 meetings and calls one day and when I asked which ones were critical, he said everyone given the nature of his practice. He returns calls each day.
> 
> I think you have to address how to meet her needs within the context of your demanding practice. Maybe you can stay in shape but spend more time with her. Can you travel somewhere on weekends.
> 
> Fortunately there are no children. You both have to evaluate where this is going. If there are to be no children and your high intensity practice cannot change, maybe you would be more compatible with a high-intensity real estate agent or a woman with her own career. It seems like she has a minor job that she does not need and is looking for emotional fulfillment.


I hear what you’re saying, but it is somewhat jumping to the end of the book and then imagining the rest of the story based on the ending.

Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner, but those things took tremendous dedication, commitment, and hard-work. Having these qualities put me on this path to good health, wealth, and security. It isn’t like I won the lottery and had it all dumped in my lap.

I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities. Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?

Clearly I’m not meeting her emotional needs the way this guy does, but it seemed like I was doing all the right things. I was trying to anyway.

My work/life balance has already improved substantially in the last couple months. I can give her more attention, but now I have to wonder if I even want to.


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## luxnoctis

Thor said:


> Without getting into the morality of alimony, in my state alimony is forever after 20 yrs of marriage. No matter what. Cheating? Not a factor. Between 10 and 20 yrs of marriage, alimony is 1:1, meaning a 15 yr marriage will result in 15 yrs of alimony.
> 
> The state does a straight 50/50 split of income. So for a doc making nearly $800k like donesies, he would be paying $400k per year in alimony!!!! If they were married 10 yrs exactly to the day, he would pay her that amount for 10 years. If they were married 20 years to the day, he would pay her that forever.
> 
> On top of all that, if she were a SAHM then she would almost certainly get custody of minor children, so he would have to pay substantial child support to her. She would of course get half of all assets including retirement savings, half the value of his private practice, etc.
> 
> Even if she cheated and wanted the divorce but he genuinely wanted to try to R. Too bad, she gets the divorce and all the free money.
> 
> It could have been a lot worse for the doc!


I've never heard of that system and it really sucks. He would still save on taxes though :grin2:

But doesn't it still get adjusted based on his or her income or both? Like he can't pay that if he is injured and can't be a physician anymore right?


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## donesies

Thor said:


> luxnoctis said:
> 
> 
> 
> In his tax bracket, higher alimony is actually better because it will reduce his taxes IF he signs something before the new tax law making alimony nondeductible in 2019.
> 
> Think of it this way, he had to pay expenses for his wife, but couldn't deduct them from his income. After the divorce he will pay expenses for his former wife, but will be able to deduct them.
> 
> 
> 
> Without getting into the morality of alimony, in my state alimony is forever after 20 yrs of marriage. No matter what. Cheating? Not a factor. Between 10 and 20 yrs of marriage, alimony is 1:1, meaning a 15 yr marriage will result in 15 yrs of alimony.
> 
> The state does a straight 50/50 split of income. So for a doc making nearly $800k like donesies, he would be paying $400k per year in alimony!!!! If they were married 10 yrs exactly to the day, he would pay her that amount for 10 years. If they were married 20 years to the day, he would pay her that forever.
> 
> On top of all that, if she were a SAHM then she would almost certainly get custody of minor children, so he would have to pay substantial child support to her. She would of course get half of all assets including retirement savings, half the value of his private practice, etc.
> 
> Even if she cheated and wanted the divorce but he genuinely wanted to try to R. Too bad, she gets the divorce and all the free money.
> 
> It could have been a lot worse for the doc!
Click to expand...

Yes, I am extraordinarily lucky I’m not in Utah.

My attorney is estimating that I will pay her $4-5k/mo for 3 years. Split of assets at this point will be about $300k. So she will get a $450k severance package.


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## Faithful Wife

donesies said:


> I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities. Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?
> 
> Clearly I’m not meeting her emotional needs the way this guy does, but it seemed like I was doing all the right things. I was trying to anyway.


This is a mistake a lot of people make. They assume the opposite sex is inflexible in their attraction and they further assume to know what the opposite sex is attracted to, then they try to be that and expect the desire and attraction to flow forth. 

But mutual sexual chemistry between two people can't be predicted based on lists of characteristics. 

That point is moot now because it sounds like you are going to file and leave her to the OM (and I agree you should). But going forward, don't ever presume to know who will be attracted to you or why. Strong chemistry is either there or it isn't, and a woman you felt strong mutual chemistry with may be attracted to you for things that are not on the list of attributes you wrote.


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## luxnoctis

donesies said:


> Yes, I am extraordinarily lucky I’m not in Utah.
> 
> My attorney is estimating that I will pay her $4-5k/mo for 3 years. Split of assets at this point will be about $300k. So she will get a $450k severance package.


But....she will pay tax on all of that. That $4-5k/mo will be taxed as regular income so if she is used to a lifestyle better than what that can pay for, she's not going to get it. And if she gets together with that guy, he will expect her to pay for everything and that's not much for 5 people. 

At least you still have money to still live well after a divorce. Imagine what happens to spouses who don't make near as much. Looks like you'll get to sidestep the financial struggles most people suffer after divorce.


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## VladDracul

donesies said:


> Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner,


Well I guess if you've got to look on the bright side, you didn't marry a chick just looking for money and good looks.


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## Thor

luxnoctis said:


> I've never heard of that system and it really sucks. He would still save on taxes though :grin2:
> 
> But doesn't it still get adjusted based on his or her income or both? Like he can't pay that if he is injured and can't be a physician anymore right?


Well yes it is a tax deduction for him, and she would pay taxes on the $ received.

What they do is add up both gross incomes and then divide by 2. Say a teacher making $50k and a programmer making $150k, for a combined total of $200k. Each would end up with $100k, so the programmer pays the teacher $50k per year in alimony. But here's the rub. The programmer is presumed to keep earning that amount, and any reduction is voluntary unless there is true disability. Let's say the programmer hates programming and has been working 80 hr weeks to earn that amount and decides to switch jobs, reducing to $100k but getting more time with the kids. $50K is still payable to the teacher!

Now the programmer is left with only $50k gross income, and likely pays significant child support too.

Either person can go back to court to try to amend alimony, but a voluntary reduction in pay is not likely to result in a change in alimony. 

Now let's say the teacher has an opportunity to take on outside work or take a promotion, increasing pay to $80K total. Alimony would reduce by $15k. Previous total income was $100k including alimony, now after the raise it would be $115. So half the pay raise is "lost" by the teacher due to reduced alimony. So there is no motivation whatsoever for the lower earner to work harder, get additional qualifications, or seek promotions. In fact there is a motivation to reduce their efforts. Alimony won't change for the teacher if they go part time or move to a different lower paying position. Hmm, maybe they can even live on just the $50K alimony and not work at all!

It is a sucky system, though California is even worse.


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## Hope Shimmers

donesies said:


> Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner, but those things took tremendous dedication, commitment, and hard-work. Having these qualities put me on this path to good health, wealth, and security. It isn’t like I won the lottery and had it all dumped in my lap.


Yeah, I hear you on that one.

And here I thought I had the worst possible V-day. You one-upped me there.

I'm sorry you're going through this. It is not your responsibility in any way that she chose to cheat. Just because you have a busy professional life does not make you responsible for her poor behavior. So stop thinking that you could have prevented this by being more attentive, etc, etc. She could have made the choice to tell you she was unhappy before she had an affair. It's on her.

It sounds like the alimony is fairly reasonable. Just cut ties and get out and find someone better. You can afford the payments and they won't go on forever. The sooner you start the sooner it will be over.


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## Tatsuhiko

There are a lot of women who would be very attracted to your wealth. The problem is that most of them are the wrong kind of women. My father was a doctor with this problem. When so many women are interested in you, it's hard to weed out the good ones from the bad ones.

When you start dating again, you should play down the wealth. Don't drive the fancy car. Live a modest life in a humble condo for a few years. Shovel the excess cash into the stock market. Mrs. Right will be the one who couldn't care less how much you make and has a career of her own that she takes pride in. Your 50-year-old self will someday thank the 30-year-old self.


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## sandcastle

donesies said:


> Hell if you count all of the community service I do outside of my job, I work like 100 hours a week


Well now- 169 hours in a week and you work 100-
Does this include your marathon training?

Gosh- faboosh you and your beautiful wife that is a cheater with a lowlife.

Too quote VLAD

How often you bangin your hot wife?

If less the 2 times a week- whelp- pull out your checkbook. Duh- you ain't banging the hot chick 30 year old wife- some other dude is.


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## Truthseeker1

Red Sonja said:


> Meh ... the same thing can be said about _some _very attractive men. Bottom line is it's a character problem in _some __people _that isn't necessarily correlated with attractiveness levels.


Agree 100% - the cases of infidelity I've known in my own life did not involve 10s - far from it..its character, character, character


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## OutofRetirement

> I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities. Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?
> 
> Clearly I’m not meeting her emotional needs the way this guy does, but it seemed like I was doing all the right things. I was trying to anyway.


Frequently in cheating the so-called "needs" ("wants" might be a better word) are completely unreasonable. For example, frequently the cheater thinks the spouse should "make them happy." Happiness comes from within, not from without. Maybe her needs are sexual variety - how could you meet her needs in a monogamous relationship?

How this usually works is this: Your wife went to this club and she gets some validation. Even though she is a paying member, she is there so often that she feels she knows much more than the paying staff. She enjoys to help out there and feel important. And the management give her lots of compliments (but no money, not even a rebate of her membership). Now, at least I would think what the management says is this is a good business practice, she is not that much of a help, certainly we wouldn't want to offer her a paying job, but with the cost of telling her some nice things, she will go to greater lengths than any of our paying staff.

Now, your wife is there every day, and Mr. Loser is a member there, too, and he talks to her. For whatever loser-ness he has, he is smart enough to see that your wife loves validation. So he talks her up, too. Mrs. Doc, you are not only beautiful and sexy, you are sooooo intelligent and capable. I hope Mr. Doc knows how lucky he is. This goes on every day. Your wife starts looking forward to it.

Now, let me ask you something. If someone, no matter her looks and personality, if she goes out of her way to tell you how great your are, are you going to think she is a jerk? Well, maybe, if you can see her in action with other people and she is abrasive and abrupt with them, and the opposite of you. But most likely, she will not be so polar opposite, she will be at least polite with other people, and telling you how much she respects you every day, and if someone were to ask you what you thought of her, would you genuinely think she is a loser, has no job skills, no looks, no personality? Did you ever meet someone, male or female, and your first impression physically was they're not so good-looking? And then when you get to know them, they are so nice, they look a little better to you physically? By the same token, sometimes people you initially thought attractive, when you learn how ugly they are on the inside, you have very little attraction to them?

OK, so your wife likes this guy. She looks forward to seeing him every day and hearing how great she is from him. He's married and has three kids. I bet your wife doesn't even know how much money he makes, doesn't really think much about it. Your wife knows he makes enough money to take care of his kids along with him and his wife. He probably tells your wife how smart he is, how he is THE MAN where he works, everyone has to ask him what to do, even the bosses have to ask him. He is risking his marriage by making moves on your wife. He loves his kids, he told your wife that many times. He told your wife that his wife is not anywhere in your wife's looks, personality, capabilities, ANYTHING. If your wife told you that you were the BEST, wouldn't that make you feel good?

So now this guy starts making digs at you. Subtle. Hey, Mrs. Doc, what did you do last night? Did you watch the Olympics? What did Mr. Doc think about that skier who didn't win? Oh, Mr. Doc worked late? Again? If I had a wife like you, I'd be home early every day. I might even be tempted to quit to stay with your 24/7. I wouldn't be able to do it, but I sure would want to. I know he makes a lot of money, but how much is too much? Money isn't everything, is it? I still put my pants on one leg at a time, just like he does. It's nice to have money in the bank, and a nice house, but at what cost? (This is a little overboard, he probably is a little more subtle).

After a few weeks/months, he starts texting her, calling her, taking her to lunch, giving her a gift on her birthday, etc. He is courting her. Married 7 years, she has not felt that "butterflies" in the stomach, that infatuation, that anticipation, that strong longing of looking forward to a man, in at least a few years. She had not been unhappy, she was happy enough, until this guy came along. Now she is unhappy with you compared to her. Proud of you? Sure. Loves you? Sure, but not "in love" with you. Like a best friend, no longer like a lover. I don't know how much experience you've had, but sexual attraction can come and go pretty quickly, and most of us, I think, don't quite understand it even about ourselves. Secrecy, deception - that's spy stuff, and it adds to the excitment. Also, there is a bubble around the affair. An affair bubble. No reality can penetrate the bubble. Finances? No. Chores? No. Taking the car in for an oil change? No. In the affair bubble, there's just lots of compliments, I love yous, and sex. That's a pretty nice little world. I don't think a married man can compete.

Also, there is a kind of "I don't care" element. When I was in high school, an all-boys school, they shipped in girls for dances from girls' schools. You don't care quite so much about playing the fool when you don't have to see the girls in school the next day, and the girls felt the same way about the boys. So there is an element of that in an affair, you don't have to worry if the other thinks you are nasty, not "wife-like" or "husband-like."

Now what happens when you cut their legs out from under them, file divorce? It could go either way. You really don't know how deep your wife really are. Some are. Some think they are but really aren't. And some know they are just playing, mouthing the words but not really feeling it, but enjoying the role play. Same thing with the guy, but with kids, he has more to consider than just his wife. On your wife's side, I think "reputation" plays a bigger part. Plus, I've seen women cheat on guys like you a number of times, and the members in the peanut gallery have a lot to say. "Are you crazy losing your hunky million-dollar doctor for this chubby little schmoe with a ton of baggage? How are you going to find another one like him? Oh, he works a lot? That's because he has a JOB, not like the loser you latched onto!" Given that your wife likes the validation, these voices are likely going to sway her to dump him and beg for you to give her one more chance. Plus if the other man throws your wife under the bus to stay with his wife and his kids, that is even more likely.


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## Bobby5000

"Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner, but those things took tremendous dedication, commitment, and hard-work. Having these qualities put me on this path to good health, wealth, and security. It isn’t like I won the lottery and had it all dumped in my lap. I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities. Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?" Consider this. 

I happened to see LA Listing, the real estate show. One of the agents is a breathtakingly beautiful, very nice woman who makes something like 2 million a year. All someone could want right. She wanted to go to New York to develop a project for about a week, her husband complained and one saw a real argument on the show. Later it was reported divorce proceedings were initiated. Basically, he wanted a career for himself and did not want to be the primary parent for the children. Despite her finances and success, he wanted that success on his own and that seems somewhat similar to your situation. 

If you two had children, this might not be happening, busy with bringing them here and there, taking care of the house, she would be busy. But that's not what happening and she is alone. You have two choices. 

Try to understand her a little better, ask about taking a trip. Try to be centered into her life instead of the opposite. Once that occurs, then bring up the affair. Perhaps with some change, you two could go on to a more meaningful fulfilling relationship. 

Or alternatively, you can decide that's it. I do not see the alternative many have outlined. Complaining, bothering her, monitoring, etc, without really looking at the underlying issues and problems. Doctors can be like generals, you have to have a certain arrogance to deal with tough decisions and confidence in your ability. But here, you need to be a partner if this marriage is going to succeed in my view.


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## Sports Fan

You seem to have taken this as well as can be expected. Good work on your swift action so far. Your wife sounds like she has Forrest Gump IQ.


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## Wolfman1968

Dude, you're so focused on how beautiful your wife is. 

Here's a little ditty from when I was a kid:


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## Suspicious1

Wolfman1968 said:


> Dude, you're so focused on how beautiful your wife is.
> 
> Here's a little ditty from when I was a kid:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7myjFBwDlIk


I might not be as old as you but song was definitely playing along in my head while reading this thread.

S1

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## Satya

Tatsuhiko said:


> There are a lot of women who would be very attracted to your wealth. The problem is that most of them are the wrong kind of women. My father was a doctor with this problem. When so many women are interested in you, it's hard to weed out the good ones from the bad ones.
> 
> When you start dating again, you should play down the wealth. Don't drive the fancy car. Live a modest life in a humble condo for a few years. Shovel the excess cash into the stock market. Mrs. Right will be the one who couldn't care less how much you make and has a career of her own that she takes pride in. Your 50-year-old self will someday thank the 30-year-old self.


Not only this but gauge how willing she is to buy you dinner, go fill your car with gas, etc. See if she points out what she does often. And watch it for a while (months). 

Reciprocation without expecting owing in return is very telling of the kind of person she is. And it will indicate the way she will treat you and respect you as a partner, not necessarily with a focus on the "things" you have. I'm not saying don't be thankful. Do. But also watch to see how gracious and thankful she is, too.

So many men lose sight of these important qualities in the face of beauty. The two have nothing to do with each other.


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## Diana7

Truthseeker1 said:


> Agree 100% - the cases of infidelity I've known in my own life did not involve 10s - far from it..its character, character, character


My experiences and observations have shown the opposite re the looks.


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## Malaise

Bobby5000 said:


> Complaining, bothering her, monitoring, etc, without really looking at the underlying issues and problems.
> 
> *Conversely, has she spoken to OP about the underlying issues and problems?
> 
> * Doctors can be like generals, you have to have a certain arrogance to deal with tough decisions and confidence in your ability. But here, you need to be a partner if this marriage is going to succeed in my view.
> 
> *She needs to be a partner as well*


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## Bananapeel

Diana7 said:


> My experiences and observations have shown the opposite re the looks.


I think we've long established you don't live in the same world that the vast majority of us do, so this is no surprise.


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## Diana7

Bananapeel said:


> I think we've long established you don't live in the same world that the vast majority of us do, so this is no surprise.


No I don't because I live in the UK. Apart from that I mix with all sorts of people just like you and others do.


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## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner, but those things took tremendous dedication, commitment, and hard-work. Having these qualities put me on this path to good health, wealth, and security. It isn’t like I won the lottery and had it all dumped in my lap.
> 
> I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities. Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?
> 
> Most women do, but you are looking at this from a masculine viewpoint instead of a feminine one. What a woman feels is not static, it is constantly in flux, so what they feel at a moment may be totally different than what they feel an hour later. In either case, that is their reality and what they wholeheartedly believe. My XW did the same thing. The guy she cheated with was below me in every single measurable way, but she still liked the attention from him. I gather that he was just closer to her level so she related better to him than me.
> 
> Clearly I’m not meeting her emotional needs the way this guy does, but it seemed like I was doing all the right things. I was trying to anyway.
> 
> BS and you should pull your head out of your rear if you believe this. Cheating isn't about not meeting her emotional needs (although a bunch of women will use that as an excuse to rationalize their behavior), it's about weak morals and the opportunity to do something they think they can get away with. Plus it's not your job to meet her emotional needs. Let me repeat that part - it's not your job to meet her emotional needs. It's her job to make sure her needs are being met and if they aren't to communicate it to you and try to remedy it.
> 
> My work/life balance has already improved substantially in the last couple months. I can give her more attention, but now I have to wonder if I even want to.
> 
> Dude, she's not worth it. I'm going to tell you that you'll be far happier once she is gone because a high quality man that is used to having success won't ever be able to look themselves in the mirror and be happy with who they are if they tolerate that level of betrayal. If you're at all like me, the logical part of your brain will accept giving her the consequence of divorce for cheating far easier than it will accept being married to a cheating spouse and trying to justify that she's somehow worth staying with.


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## bandit.45

OP, I'm not really asking you the following question so much as I am those posters who are mentioning R as an alternative. But hopefully I can dissuade you from having second thoughts. 

Donesies, as a man of science, you realize that you have a biological imperative to procreate and spread your DNA to future generations correct? In the wild, male and female organisms go through elaborate courtship rituals to ensure that the mate they pick has the best and most desirable genetic attributes as possible, to ensure that their young will be fit and strong and healthy. 

In that regard...why would you want to mix your genetics with a moron? If I come across belittling to your wife, forgive me but it is just the way I see her. This woman had a loving husband, willing to work his ass off for a decade to obtain licensing in an extremely difficult technical field, and to be able to make a very comfortable yearly income to support her and her future children. You would have seen to it that she was the most well-cared for wife and mother as she could be, I have no doubt. If there is a cheating gene, she definitely has it. 

She threw it all away for a few cheap orgasms with a lowlife gympunk. So I ask you...do you want your children to inherit her idiocy? I hope not. 

Do not feel at all guilty about filing for divorce. You are doing what is best for yourself and the human species. Thank you.


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## Suspicious1

Diana7 said:


> No I don't because I live in the UK. Apart from that I mix with all sorts of people just like you and others do.


Oh!









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## GusPolinski

Please tell me this guy isn’t considering reconciliation.


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## GusPolinski

bandit.45 said:


> OP, I'm not really asking you the following question so much as I am those posters who are mentioning R as an alternative. But hopefully I can dissuade you from having second thoughts.
> 
> Donesies, as a man of science, you realize that you have a biological imperative to procreate and spread your DNA to future generations correct? In the wild, male and female organisms go through elaborate courtship rituals to ensure that the mate they pick has the best and most desirable genetic attributes as possible, to ensure that their young will be fit and strong and healthy.
> 
> In that regard...why would you want to mix your genetics with a moron? If I come across belittling to your wife, forgive me but it is just the way I see her. This woman had a loving husband, willing to work his ass off for a decade to obtain licensing in an extremely difficult technical field, and to be able to make a very comfortable yearly income to support her and her future children. You would have seen to it that she was the most well-cared for wife and mother as she could be, I have no doubt. If there is a cheating gene, she definitely has it.
> 
> She threw it all away for a few cheap orgasms with a lowlife gympunk. So I ask you...do you want your children to inherit her idiocy? I hope not.
> 
> Do not feel at all guilty about filing for divorce. You are doing what is best for yourself and the human species. Thank you.


----------



## Cynthia

I’m sorry this is happening to you.

Despite having an attorney and being prepared to file for divorce, I recommend you purchase at least one book about divorce in your state and read it thoroughly. Purchase it on Kindle if possible, so it’s not laying around the house or keep it at the office and read it at your desk. You don’t need her getting information that you’re providing that may help her.

It is vital that you get a good grip on what the law in your state actually says. Sure you’ll need your attorney, but you also need to have another source of knowledge. A lot of attorneys will drag things on indefinitely when it should be a cut and dry issue. Don’t let that happen to you. Know your rights.

You don’t have to speak to your wife about any of this. Your wife no longer has a right to know anything about you or what you are up to. She has betrayed you and broken her marriage vows. 

You said you have it covered so she cannot drain your bank accounts or rack up credit, but what is stopping her from doing that? 



donesies said:


> My wife is beautiful and I am ashamed to say that I wonder if I can ever find another like her


Beauty is fleeting, but a woman of honor is worth more than gold.
As far as looks go, it is understandable that you would want a woman who is fit and healthy, but that can change quickly. The idea is to find someone who shares your concern for personal health and well-being and someone whose heart is set on having your back and developing a deep, loving, respectful relationship with you. My recommendation is that when that time comes, you do not disclose your income. Say you’re in the medical field and that you are financially responsible, but that’s about it until things get serious. Don’t live in luxury when you’re looking for a mate. You want to be sure a woman is in love with you and not your money.



Emerging Buddhist said:


> You might want to consider curbing that back a little in your next relationship if you can... cheating was a choice on her part and the destruction to the marriage that she must own, but attention to one's spouse is a choice too.





bandit.45 said:


> She knew the score when she married the OP...that he was a doctor and that doctors work long hours.
> 
> I have very little compassion for people ball and squall about never having time with their spouses, when they chose to marry medical workers, police or military personnel, who's jobs take them away from home for long periods of time.


It is true that she understood what being the wife of a surgeon means, but if he’s gone 100+ hours per week, that shows lack of balance. It wasn’t his choice that cheated. That’s 100% on her. The decline of the marriage was likely due to many factors, including not enough time together and it’s good to recognize that before going into another relationship.

For the sake of encouragement, I recommend you read this thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html There are many similarities, including infertility. This man divorced his wife, paid alimony, found a new woman, and now has a child.


The OM’s wife has a right to know what’s going on. You might wait until your wife has signed the paperwork and there’s no going back, but don’t delay any longer than absolutely necessary.


----------



## donesies

I am listening guys. I don’t think I’m going to go through R. I am so sick of her. I will tell the OM’s W as soon as I figure out my own stuff which should be very soon.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

donesies said:


> I am listening guys. I don’t think I’m going to go through R. I am so sick of her. I will tell the OM’s W as soon as I figure out my own stuff which should be very soon.


Figuring out your own stuff is not a prerequisite to telling OM’s wife. She deserves the same benefit of knowledge that you have. Quit stalling.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Figuring out your own stuff is not a prerequisite to telling OM’s wife. She deserves the same benefit of knowledge that you have. Quit stalling.




Can’t agree. He needs to get his ducks in a row first. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Elizabeth001 said:


> Can’t agree. He needs to get his ducks in a row first.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The two are not mutually exclusive. It takes but a minute to do the right thing by the OMs wife. Won’t prevent him from getting his ducks in a row one bit.


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## Elizabeth001

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> The two are not mutually exclusive. It takes but a minute to do the right thing by the OMs wife. Won’t prevent him from getting his ducks in a row one bit.




I would blow up my cheating spouse before anyone else, least I give up my hand. 

This guy seems to be doing all the right things so far and he has a good attorney. Not sure if he has discussed disclosure to the OMs wife with his attorney yet, but I would. 

We can only hope that he will tell her when he can. The damage is done though. It can wait for the right time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Elizabeth001 said:


> I would blow up my cheating spouse before anyone else, least I give up my hand.
> 
> This guy seems to be doing all the right things so far and he has a good attorney. Not sure if he has discussed disclosure to the OMs wife with his attorney yet, but I would.
> 
> We can only hope that he will tell her when he can. The damage is done though. It can wait for the right time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Telling OMs wife her husband is having an affair reveals nothing in his hand.

And with every passing day, more damage is done.

At least I agree getting his attorney’s take is a wise move.


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## VladDracul

Satya said:


> So many men lose sight of these important qualities in the face of beauty. The two have nothing to do with each other.



Both women and men tend to be happier and more satisfied when the wife is more attractive than the husband. My general advise however is to find a wife that thinks you hung the moon. Men (and women) who choose looks over character usually go down in flames.


----------



## drifting on

Done


Exposure to the OM’s wife is important, for reconciliation, so if you need time to get your yourself in the best possible position then do it. Expose when you feel the repercussions cannot affect you. Ask your lawyer about exposure, be sure your wife can’t come back after you. Once everything is in place then do as you wish. In the end OM’s wife deserves to know in my opinion, but not at the cost of shooting yourself in the foot. 

As for everything else, focus on you, breathe, and live your life. Best of luck to you.


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

When the OM doesn't leave his wife and disappears, and you're gone too, she will be at your door bawling and oh so sorry. Stay strong.


----------



## Kittysalem

donesies said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, that’s probably true. I wasn’t always there and wasn’t as attentive as I should have been.
> 
> We have no children, but we both want them. We tried for them, but she couldn’t have them, despite thousands of dollars spend on IVF. We then sort of gave up. That was a couple years ago.
> 
> We are both young - early 30’s



but what about adoption? or a surrogate?


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## Chaparral

If they are both out of town, now is the perfect time to tell his wife for obvious reasons.


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## donesies

Wife was served an hour ago. No word yet.


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## ButtPunch

Stay strong OP


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## Chaparral

Don’t waste any time explaining things to her. Just wish her well being a married man’s mistress!


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> Wife was served an hour ago. No word yet.


I wonder who she called first?


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## Andy1001

ButtPunch said:


> I wonder who she called first?


She’s too busy hiding every scrap of information that the om ever existed.What’s the betting her phone will have miraculously reset to factory settings and all texts,messages etc are unfortunately lost forever............she hopes.
This is to the op.Go out to your favorite restaurant and have dinner then check into a hotel for tonight.
Oh! And turn your phone off.


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## eric1

You need to tell his wife now. You should also see if you can view her cell phone usage online.


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## Suspicious1

eric1 said:


> You need to tell his wife now. You should also see if you can view her cell phone usage online.


Not necessary!

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## eric1

Suspicious1 said:


> Not necessary!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


It 100% unquestionably is


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## Sparta

OM’s wife needs to be told ASAP.!


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## Suspicious1

eric1 said:


> It 100% unquestionably is


Sure if he wants to R. 

Just seems to me you're/ the OP is now susceptible to a bs story.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## colingrant

donesies said:


> Wife was served an hour ago. No word yet.


You will begin to wonder if you did the right thing. It's natural. Don't fall for it though. You did the right thing. Calculating, and decisive action is best in cases like this. Indecisiveness, guarantees more hurt and headache than you can possibly imagine. You did yourself a HUGE favor. In the upcoming days, weeks, months and perhaps years, the merit of your strong response will become increasingly clear and you will see how critically important it was for you to respond with conviction. There are hundreds of stories here on TM of those who reacted opposite of you. Read those stories and see how they turn out. They're hard to read and sad to see. I'll just leave it at that. 

Don't let anyone kid you. You're the prize here. Act like it and don't forget it. Those who reluctantly embrace change or have the courage to proceed forward with or without the WW provide themselves with self-dignity, self-respect and self-control moving forward; not a reactionary life based on someone else's irresponsible actions. I'm not advocating divorce. I'm advocating controlling your life and future happiness. Plain and simple. That may or may not include your WW. But, YOU are making decisions that benefit you and your family, and that's the ONLY thing that matters.


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## lostmyreligion

bandit.45 said:


> OP, I'm not really asking you the following question so much as I am those posters who are mentioning R as an alternative. But hopefully I can dissuade you from having second thoughts.
> 
> Donesies, as a man of science, you realize that you have a biological imperative to procreate and spread your DNA to future generations correct? In the wild, male and female organisms go through elaborate courtship rituals to ensure that the mate they pick has the best and most desirable genetic attributes as possible, to ensure that their young will be fit and strong and healthy.
> 
> In that regard...why would you want to mix your genetics with a moron? If I come across belittling to your wife, forgive me but it is just the way I see her. This woman had a loving husband, willing to work his ass off for a decade to obtain licensing in an extremely difficult technical field, and to be able to make a very comfortable yearly income to support her and her future children. You would have seen to it that she was the most well-cared for wife and mother as she could be, I have no doubt. If there is a cheating gene, she definitely has it.
> 
> She threw it all away for a few cheap orgasms with a lowlife gympunk. So I ask you...do you want your children to inherit her idiocy? I hope not.
> 
> Do not feel at all guilty about filing for divorce. You are doing what is best for yourself and the human species. Thank you.


Hahahaha..Jvsus Bandit. I'm wiping the scoffee I just blew out my nose off of my keyboard.

OP, I don't mean to laugh at your situation in any way. You're a brilliant guy handling a sh!t situation brilliantly and providing a shining example of how to deal with the sudden awful knowledge of who/what your partner is/has done for all who follow.

I just want to echo Bandit's closing paragraph above. Seriously, man. Thanks.


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## skerzoid

donesies

1. I would ghost her (NC). 
2. She will probably show up at your practice. Can you take some time away?
3. Alert the other betrayed spouse. This blows up the affair and puts you in an even stronger position.
4. When you do get in contact, do so only through text, email, or better, your attorney.
5. Have a voice recorder on yourself at all times. 
6. You have been strong, so far, but be prepared for the waterworks.
7. The greater you distance yourself, the less she will be able to influence your judgement.
8. Good luck, you are doing great.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Wife was served an hour ago. No word yet.


You did the right thing. Sorry you are going through this but better to cut your losses now before you have a lifetime of misery. 

My 2 cents, tell the other ma's wife what is going on. She has a right to know who she is married to in how he has been behaving. It really sucks when you are left in the dark and no one tells you what is going on. I am sure you can relate to that in that people in her club knew she had crossed boundaries and no one gave you not even an anonymous heads up.


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## skerzoid

Donesies

A PS to my other statement: I would alert all other husbands in her club to what the OM has done. They would probably like to know who their wives have been hanging around with. Or let the administrators of the club know that you are thinking of doing this. Their reaction could be interesting.


----------



## colingrant

skerzoid said:


> donesies
> 
> 1. I would ghost her (NC).
> 2. She will probably show up at your practice. Can you take some time away?
> 3. Alert the other betrayed spouse. This blows up the affair and puts you in an even stronger position.
> 4. When you do get in contact, do so only through text, email, or better, your attorney.
> 5. Have a voice recorder on yourself at all times.
> 6. You have been strong, so far, but be prepared for the waterworks.
> 7. The greater you distance yourself, the less she will be able to influence your judgement.
> 8. Good luck, you are doing great.


Excellent post. Preferably all, but executing any one of the above is critical towards accentuating the impact of her getting served. You're in the drivers seat. Don't compromise your position. Your disposition after she gets served is key to "meaning business". People respond when the other person means it. It's possible she drops her boyfriend like a hot potato. Don't get lured into the comfortable world of her getting back to the way it used to be. Wait and observe actions, not words. Do not in any shape or form discuss reconciliation. Discuss your possible "consideration" of reconciling. It's up to you, but discussing reconciling foregoes everything you've done that's good. 
Be confident and indifferent. She needs to be massively uncomfortable, for quite a while concerning her position or status with you.


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## ABHale

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Telling OMs wife her husband is having an affair reveals nothing in his hand.
> 
> And with every passing day, more damage is done.
> 
> At least I agree getting his attorney’s take is a wise move.


It blows the affair up. He needs to keep his STBXW in the affair fog as long as possible. Until the divorce is settled. That way she might no fight op tooth and nail.


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## WorkingOnMe

ABHale said:


> It blows the affair up. He needs to keep his STBXW in the affair fog as long as possible. Until the divorce is settled. That way she might no fight op tooth and nail.




Generally I agree that there’s no strategic advantage to exposure at this point if he’s planning to divorce. The problem is, once the AP finds out she’s been served he’s likely to act like he was exposed anyway, dumping the WW and circling the wagons. His own fear of exposure will cause this regardless of what OP does. So by not exposing, OP gets the same problems as exposing gets him, without the benefit to the other betrayed spouse (omw). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## donesies

After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. I may have cost myself thousands. I guess we'll see.


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## Sparta

Have you heard anything from your WW yet.?


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## re16

WorkingOnMe said:


> Generally I agree that there’s no strategic advantage to exposure at this point if he’s planning to divorce. The problem is, once the AP finds out she’s been served he’s likely to act like he was exposed anyway, dumping the WW and circling the wagons. His own fear of exposure will cause this regardless of what OP does. So by not exposing, OP gets the same problems as exposing gets him, without the benefit to the other betrayed spouse (omw).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I agree that once OM realizes its blowing up, he will go into damage control mode. Filing changed the game, exposure or not.

I disagree that there is no current advantage to exposure to OMW....

I think the advantage occurs when the WW is uncomfortable with the new potential reality of divorce and wants to reconcile. Exposure to OMW may do just that. WW suddenly realizes that she has no one. It doesn't matter that the OP wants to divorce, if the WW wants to reconcile she will be docile and easier to deal with. Other advantage to exposing to OMW is that OP may gain some new and valuable insight about the entire situation and potentially information that keeps him in the divorce camp, where he needs to stay.

Best divorce terms occur when the wayward is in the mindset of doing anything to win the spouse back. It can also happen when the wayward is attempting to sail off into the sunset with the AP, but that rarely happens when the AP is married.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Divorce may be no fault but alimony is slightly elastic and judges don't like cheaters any more than anyone else does as they are inherent liars and courts take a dim view of liars for obvious reasons. That being said this has all the hallmarks of a cowardly exit affair.

She knows what her pay day is worth within legal parameters but the judge has the last word. Your informing the other man's wife will not cost you an extra penny. 

Beware that her husband may intercept the message. Unfaithful spouses intercept messages all the time here on TAM. Make sure she actually gets the message. Phone call is best. 

Has your soon to be ex reached out yet asking why?


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## re16

donesies said:


> After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. I may have cost myself thousands. I guess we'll see.


Any attempts to contact you from the WW after the filing? I would think she'd be blowing up your phone / text / email by now.


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## bandit.45

donesies said:


> After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. I may have cost myself thousands. I guess we'll see.


You did the right thing. And it won't come back to bite you the way you fear.


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## TeddieG

donesies said:


> After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. I may have cost myself thousands. I guess we'll see.


Not necessarily. Step back and let the universe do its work. She got served, and then OMW found out. In my neck of the woods, where it comes to your WW, soon to be XW, that's called a **** sandwich. Score!


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## donesies

re16 said:


> Any attempts to contact you from the WW after the filing? I would think she'd be blowing up your phone / text / email by now.


I've been in procedures all day and turned off my phone. I'm sure I'll find something when I turn it back on in a couple hours.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Don't delete anything! If you need to make room for more VMs record to another device along with message envelope information. It may prove useful.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

BTW, by acting decisively you have handled this like a champ ! By confronting her with immediate consequences of her behavior you have shown her you mean business and are not afraid of the outcome or anyone involved. This may or may not knock your wife to her senses. If she comes crawling back with complete regret and remorse YOU have a choice whether to reconcile on YOUR terms. If she is so in the fog and starts blaming this mess on you and she loves him blah blah blah just cut her off and tell her to never speak to you again. In the later you have saved yourself years of heartache and probably millions of dollars. 

A few years of alimony will only leave a short bitter taste in your mouth compared to a lifetime of regret. 

Next time get a prenup. No one will question that after this.


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## Marc878

donesies said:


> After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. I may have cost myself thousands. I guess we'll see.


Nope, if you have a good attorney she'll get what the law allows and nothing more.


----------



## donesies

Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


----------



## blahfridge

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and *"Couldn't we have talked about this first?"* (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


Tell her that she didn't bother to talk to you first about her decision to have an affair so you didn't feel it necessary to tell her that you were going to divorce her.


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## 3putt

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


Say nothing more than, "I refuse to spend my life sharing my wife with another man. He can have you and I'll move on and find someone who knows how to treat me right", then walk away. Don't make it more complicated than it needs to be.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


Just text her screen shots of the journal. Where she declares her undying love and makes out with him in your home. If you think you may waver might not be a bad idea to get a hotel room tonight.

Honestly, she needs to explain that journal. English comp writing assignment fantasy is not going to cut it especially considering the rest of her behavior. Remind her you found it on Valentine's day, one of everyone's favorite days like Xmas, birthday, new years , anniversary etc to find out your spouse is in love with another. Soul crushing. This is not the first time I have seen this go down on a special day. 

Text her the journal pics then turn phone off. Go dark. Since this is a 'surprise' to her it would have been interesting to see her online call records to see who she has been texting/calling all day. 

I bet you that would have provided more reinforcement for your decision.


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## Suspicious1

Get yourself a nice hotel room, order in and try to get a good night sleep. I know easier said than done.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## lucy999

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


 I've said this so many times before on this site, and I'll say it again. I continue to be gobsmacked at the things cheaters say to their betrayed spouses/ partners. 

Is she serious??!! I'm sure the very things that she said, you have thought a million times after you found out she cheated on you. Unbelievable. 

Listen, you owe her zero explanation. 

You know you don't have to go home tonight, right?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies, hotel it. For days. Stay dark. Since she is panic mode by staying darkish she will either continue to lie to your voice mail or hysterically but slowly tell the truth. 

She brought this on herself. Stay strong.


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## colingrant

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


You could have asked that of her. Why? Couldn't she have talked to you first before coping with her issues in the worst possible way. A way that's irreversible and life changing. If she had, you wouldn't be on TAM and she wouldn't have been served today. Consequences are just that. I take no pleasure in another's suffering, but sometimes suffering has to happen for the lesson to be learned unfortunately. You can take 50% of the the responsibility for marital issues (although this remains to be seen) however, take zero responsibility for her choice to venture outside the marriage. In all likeliness, she'll connect the two, but don't buy it. Having marital issues does not lead to infidelity for those with integrity and love for the spouse. That's on her.............. Doneies, you're doing a hell of a job. Stay the course.


----------



## Thor

donesies said:


> I've been in procedures all day and turned off my phone. I'm sure I'll find something when I turn it back on in a couple hours.


I just want to tell you to take time off if you need to. I'm an airline pilot, so I know all about being confident about being able to perform my job, but I can tell you that there were times I was not mentally fit to fly. I called off of trips enough times that I had to go talk to my Chief Pilot, who when he heard I was in the midst of a divorce told me to take all the time off I needed without worrying about it being on my reliability report.

Work can be a good mental diversion, but there absolutely will be days you should not be cutting people open or administering anesthesia or whatever exactly it is you do. Don't endanger others out of some sense of invulnerability to the stress of your home life.

Also, don't be That Guy. I know you establish a personal relationship with your coworkers, but unless they are friends with you outside of work don't discuss your divorce or her cheating. Work is actually a good place to start with positive statements if somebody brings up your divorce. The word will get out at some point, and you'll likely get some people expressing their sorrow at your divorce or their support for you. This is the time to thank them for it, and then to say something positive like it isn't a fun experience but you know it is the right thing to do and in the end everybody will be a lot happier. Speaking positively is good for your professional image, but it is also important to your emotional health.


----------



## eric1

donesies said:


> After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. I may have cost myself thousands. I guess we'll see.




You cost yourself nothing. 

Strategically if you did it she’d have a ‘soulmate’ or whatever to strategize with. My exposing the affair it throws him out of the picture and destroys this finely-crafted false world that she has created. She’s not going to know which end is up.

She was going for all she could get anyways.

And if I’m wrong, F her boyfriend. The thousands it would cost you in a worst-case is a small price to pay to hold your head up high. You’re a good guy who doesn’t tolerate that.


----------



## Red Sonja

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....





blahfridge said:


> Tell her that she didn't bother to talk to you first about her decision to have an affair so you didn't feel it necessary to tell her that you were going to divorce her.


*Epic answer, to be delivered in a stone cold voice or better yet, by text.
*

I have to say it ... IS SHE TRULY THAT STUPID?! She knows "why", FFS.

It's time now to go cold and dark, if you must talk to her use as few words as possible ... no explaining, no discussing the relationship, nothing.

I would advise that if she is close to her parents that you call them and calmly and briefly (affair = divorce papers) tell them what has happened and ask them to emotionally support her in her "grief" (** cough **). You certainly cannot support her because you are too busy dealing with the knife she put in your back.


----------



## drifting on

Done

I hope the reasons for divorce were OM and infidelity. It’s good to have as a public record. As for her comment of couldn’t we have talked about this first, just tell her she could have talked to you about dating OM and what your thoughts were. But no, that didn’t happen, did it. Tell your wife to go cry on OM’s shoulders and that OM’s wife knows now to. That should get an interesting reaction. Respond from strength, not emotions and walk away saying she disappointed you in a way you didn’t think she was capable of.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

eric1 said:


> You cost yourself nothing.
> 
> Strategically if you did it she’d have a ‘soulmate’ or whatever to strategize with. My exposing the affair it throws him out of the picture and destroys this finely-crafted false world that she has created. She’s not going to know which end is up.
> 
> She was going for all she could get anyways.
> 
> And if I’m wrong, F her boyfriend. The thousands it would cost you in a worst-case is a small price to pay to hold your head up high. You’re a good guy who doesn’t tolerate that.


 ^THIS^

Her boyfriend would have been coaching her along to put the screws to you six ways from Sunday.
You were his retirement plan. Blow him up and your STBXW will get what the court gives her. She was never going to go nicely or cut you any slack. That's not how cheaters think or act. It's a character thing, or lack there of.


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


You gave her as much warning as she gave you before she started screwing her new boyfriend. 

You'll get denial and then when she finds out you know crocodile tears because she got caught.

Maybe go to a hotel tonight.


----------



## colingrant

"Your wife's boyfriend". A three word sentence unsurpassed in its level of devastation and emasculation for a man. It seems appropriate to legislate and punish the actions of wayward spouses, considering the financial, emotional and collateral damage they cause. Those who perpetrate infidelity often walk away unscathed and without consequences. Very unfortunate. Off topic, but just ticked at the subject as a whole.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


Doc, I hate to add insult to injury but the "why, why, why, and "Couldn't we have talked about this first" is nothing more than her concern over what happens to him.


----------



## ABHale

Red Sonja said:


> *Epic answer, to be delivered in a stone cold voice or better yet, by text.
> *
> 
> I have to say it ... IS SHE TRULY THAT STUPID?! She knows "why", FFS.
> 
> It's time now to go cold and dark, if you must talk to her use as few words as possible ... no explaining, no discussing the relationship, nothing.
> 
> I would advise that if she is close to her parents that you call them and calmly and briefly (affair = divorce papers) tell them what has happened and ask them to emotionally support her in her "grief" (** cough **). You certainly cannot support her because you are too busy dealing with the knife she put in your back.


:allhail:


----------



## ABHale

Would suggest moving to private section Doc.


----------



## Diana7

I guess if she isn't aware that he knows about her affair, then she will seem shocked at the divorce papers. However once she finds out that he knows, she will realise why.


----------



## eric1

Doc,
Hope you had a night that went about as well as can be expected. 

It gets better


----------



## Mizzbak

donesies, 

Well done on carrying your decision through into action ... and not just wallowing in despair for weeks (like many of us did). 

If you need not to see her right now to allow yourself space, then don't. But I'd counsel against playing mind games unnecessarily. Or at least ask what purpose they would serve. As satisfying as going totally dark may be, it doesn't really hasten ending this crappy situation. My guess is that you want a "normal" life that doesn't have all this **** in it, as soon as possible. Because the interim position has a detrimental effect on your entire life. Whatever resolution you think you might end up working towards, do you think that you would find it helpful to confront her? (I personally don't like having emotional loose ends wafting around, so I'd speak with her (if needs be, under controlled circumstances - like a public space or in the presence of a counsellor). To clear the air and lay down some ground rules, if nothing else. 

But that would be me. And you should do whatever is most productive for you. If you need to never see her again, then you absolutely don't have to. 
But you're not the one who should have trouble meeting her eyes...
Just sayin'.


----------



## Satya

@donesies, how are you doing?

You're getting stellar advice here and you did a good job. Keep it together. Stoic and diplomatic. Do not show any emotions in front of her, they'll backfire on you.


----------



## bandit.45

Have you informed her family?


----------



## Txquail

If you really want her to make her think about her actions, tell her that her OM called you and bragged he tas stealing her from you.

You will destroy their affair and she'll tell his wife. She'll believe you because the sffair is under the cloud of lies. Tell her he said to check her phone and journel if uou didnt believe him. Then ask her to give you both.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> After listening to all of you as well as speaking to friends and doing some soul-searching, I did message the OMW. *I may have cost myself thousands.* I guess we'll see.


But you saved your self respect.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


 The talking should have occurred long before the poor conscientious choice WW made. That ship has sailed.


----------



## Arrowspark

I suggest you do not reconcile. You will always be wondering if she is cheating on you again. I certainly would not want my doctor distracted by thoughts of whether his wife is seeing the OM while he is performing surgery on me. Last thing I want is for my surgeon to be triggered in the middle of an operation.


----------



## donesies

Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.

She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.

She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.

No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


----------



## donesies

To address a couple others:

1. I messaged the OMW on social media (both FB and Instagram). She didn’t respond on either and the messages are not showing up as being viewed. Not sure how to proceed.

2. I have not spoken to her parents. Should I?


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.


Sir, at this point who gives a crap about her moral high ground that appears to be in valley. File. You will find better and one that respects you. 

We are here for you!


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. *She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> *
> _She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that._
> 
> *No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying.* She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


The first bolded should be a big point in finding closure. 

AS for the italics, don't sweat that. Classic blame shifting.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


Her reaction is the normal one.

Very rarely do we see the ww beg and plead when they get busted.

Problem is they have already justified their deviant behavior in their own mind.

Her tune will change when she gets dumped.

Hopefully, you will be long gone.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> To address a couple others:
> 
> 1. I messaged the OMW on social media (both FB and Instagram). She didn’t respond on either and the messages are not showing up as being viewed. Not sure how to proceed.
> 
> 2. I have not spoken to her parents. Should I?


1. Give it time. At this juncture, do you want to R or D? 
2. Yes, advise the parents. They will find out one way or another anyway. 

PLUS...do not let your WW rewrite the marriage history. You will be painted like an ogre, controlling and uncaring. Don't let that happen. Speak with with your MIL/FIL.


----------



## Jasel

Don't be surprised if she changes her tune. More than once. And she'll most likely be screwing this guy for most of the time she does. From this point on you have to judge her actions and not her words, although I'd keep contact to an absolute minimum. And she's ****ing another guy, she has no moral high ground. So don't let her gaslight you or blameshift. You'll find cheaters always try to justify their bull**** no matter how illogical their reasoning. And I imagine your marriage was perfectly fine to your wife until she decided to **** another guy. 

It's possible she might snap out of it eventually, not every WS does on D-day. But you still have to proceed with the divorce regardless.

And I'm not sure how you informed the OMW but make sure that you eventually speak to her either through phone or face to face. I really recommend not leaving messages, sending texts, facebook messages, etc because there's the risk of it not being recieved, intercepted, or not seen for some time (I remember one story here or another site, where the BS found a facebook message from the OBS telling him about his wife's affair over a year previously). But if she doesn't reach out to you within a day or so I'd try call or meet her. You might want to do that anyway. Your wife will already be speaking with the OM which gives him time to get in front of things if OMW doesn't know what's going on at this point in time.

But keep hanging in there, you've been doing fine so far.


----------



## farsidejunky

donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


Ha!

Actually, it may not be what you wanted, but it was exactly what you needed.

You got to see her, in all of her dysfunctional glory.

She showed you her character in full transparency.

You don't see it now, but it is a gift that she gave you.


----------



## Txquail

Yes talk to her parents. Tell them whats going on. You dont want the sheriff showing up because her parents are given and abusive husband story. This will take the wind out of the sails.

Its all about protecting you now.

She showed her true colors and I bet was in it because of your income.


----------



## Yeswecan

Txquail said:


> Yes talk to her parents. Tell them whats going on. You dont want the sheriff showing up because her parents are given and abusive husband story. This will take the wind out of the sails.
> 
> Its all about protecting you now.
> 
> She showed her true colors and I bet was in it because of your income.



As a side note, may invest in a VAR and keep it with you when talking with the WW from here on out.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

She'll be back once she realizes there is no future with the other man. You and your financial security make a great "plan B" in her eyes. And when you don't fall in line with her demands for reconciliation, she'll be very angry. Keep a VAR (voice-activated recorder) on you to record all interaction. But honestly, try to avoid all contact with her. If you do have contact, remind her calmly that indeed "the marriage is dead" as she stated. Inform her parents about the affair, her declaration of love for the other man, and her assertion about the death of the marriage. Do not allow her to paint you in a bad light. Inform her that any attempts at slander will be met with legal action. 

It doesn't seem like it now, but you are very fortunate that this happened to you while you are still young and childless. You will go on to find a beautiful, loving wife who will appreciate you. You will look back at this chapter and be thankful that this all transpired when it did, and you'll wonder what you ever saw in your ex-wife.

"...said she could never trust me again". LOL, that's a good one. Cheat on your husband and then tell him that he's not meeting your standards of trustworthiness.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

LOL, precious snowflake she is. So she is not a lying cheating scumbag for mooching off of you while entertaining men in the home you pay for while she works part time and cheats. 

Typical cheater justification. Marriage was over but I did not bother to tell you. 

Too bad you did not tell her that her your right to not be exposed to another's man's semen/possible STDs in your wife's vagina trumps her alleged right to privacy to journals left laying around the family home. A home that you pay for. She really should be reminded of that. 

You have zero, zero obligation to delete these journal entree pics. As a matter of fact you should send those journal entries to your parents and hers as you explain why you are divorcing her for infidelity. She will howl foul. So what!! The only foul is her behavior. Let her explain to her parents how she decided her marriage ended without her telling you. Then cheated and blamed you for it. 

Since she left consider moving her crap into storage so she stays out Don't forget to cancel all joint cards. Move all the cash you can onto your side of the table except for say 5K. Enough for an apartment and a attorney retainer. Let her get a full time job and pay a lawyer the rest to sue you for it. 

Insure the other man's wife sees that journal. Verify that she is actually the wife. Don't protect her lies. The other man's wife deserves to know. Also, since you will be paying alimony for a number of years there is a some poetic justice in blowing up the affair on his side too.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> To address a couple others:
> 
> 1. I messaged the OMW on social media (both FB and Instagram). She didn’t respond on either and the messages are not showing up as being viewed. Not sure how to proceed.
> 
> 2. I have not spoken to her parents. Should I?


You are a very well off man as well as a very busy one. A PI at 40 to 100 dollars an hour will get you that info in no time. One, two hours tops.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> LOL, precious snowflake she is. So she is not a lying cheating scumbag for mooching off of you while entertaining men in the home you pay for while she works part time and cheats.
> 
> Typical cheater justification. Marriage was over but I did not bother to tell you.
> 
> Too bad you did not tell her that her your right to not be exposed to another's man's semen/possible STDs in your wife's vagina trumps her alleged right to privacy to journals left laying around the family home. A home that you pay for. She really should be reminded of that.
> 
> You have zero, zero obligation to delete these journal entree pics. As a matter of fact you should send those journal entries to your parents and hers as you explain why you are divorcing her for infidelity. She will howl foul. So what!! The only foul is her behavior. Let her explain to her parents how she decided her marriage ended without her telling you. Then cheated and blamed you for it.
> 
> Since she left consider moving her crap into storage so she stays out Don't forget to cancel all joint cards. Move all the cash you can onto your side of the table except for say 5K. Enough for an apartment and a attorney retainer. Let her get a full time job and pay a lawyer the rest to sue you for it.
> 
> Insure the other man's wife sees that journal. Verify that she is actually the wife. Don't protect her lies. The other man's wife deserves to know. Also, since you will be paying alimony for a number of years there is a some poetic justice in blowing up the affair on his side too.


Spot on. Every paragraph. Every sentiment. Every recommended course of action. Spot on!


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear Donesies,

Yeswecan is absolutely on point. Move quickly and contact her parents and OMW. You have nothing to lose and all to gain. She is gone and now it's time to show your strength. Don't let her take control of the situation!!! From this point, you must always be on the offense.

Good luck,
Dreamer


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> To address a couple others:
> 
> 1. I messaged the OMW on social media (both FB and Instagram). She didn’t respond on either and the messages are not showing up as being viewed. Not sure how to proceed.
> 
> 2. I have not spoken to her parents. Should I?


Absolutely speak to her parents. Now. Send them the screen shots. Tell them your wife did not bother to let you know the marriage was in trouble. Play for them her hysterical voice mails where she cries and cries asking WHY WHY WHY. Then when confronted WHY she tells you the marriage was already over and she leaves for the night. Don't forget to tell all parents the other man is married. Mention his name too for posterity.


----------



## Txquail

Also, cancel all credit cards she has, kill the bank accounts etc...


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


She gave you all the closure you need. Your wife is in love with another man.

Her saying that the marriage was long dead is her way of justifying what she has done. Cheaters almost always demean the marriage as a way to justify betrayal. The statement saying that SHE could never trust YOU again is laughable. 

Copy those journal screenshots and give to your lawyer ASAP. It may not make any difference where you live, but you never know.

It is not surprising that she is trying to blame everything on you. Cheater rarely take responsibility for their horrible actions. She did this because she wanted to do it, not because of anything you did or did not do. Do not let any self doubt creep in. This is all on her. She could have come to you and talked prior to cheating but did not. She could have said she was unhappy with the marriage, but did not. She could have suggested a marriage counsellor, but did not. Instead, she chose to bring another man into the marriage without your knowledge. NOT YOUR FAULT.

Tell her that you want to give her what she wants, a life with the man she loves, so you are setting her free.

I hope you and your lawyer have all your financial ducks in a row. Cancelled credit cards. New bank accounts that she cannot touch. Removed her from life insurance.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and *demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone.* She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


Hope you didn’t do that.

Also, be ready — either she’ll pull out all the stops in an effort to get you to reconcile, or she’s getting ready to do whatever she can to put the screws to you.


----------



## Suspicious1

Doneies

Lots of great advise here, one thing I want to reiterate as Brooklyn mentioned do not delete those pics of the journal..
As she'll prentend it never happened.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Doc.

1. She is not remorseful. In a true marriage there are NO secrets. Her accusations are bogus. Journaling means LaLa Land. 
2. Don't plan for R. Plan for D. Doc, YOU are the prize, not her. 
3. Get checked for STDs as soon as possible. Do not have sex with her. She is possibly carrying permanent diseases. Bad for an MD. If I were you, I wouldn't touch her with a 20 foot telephone pole. 
4. Go to D as quickly as possible. If she becomes remorseful, and I mean totally, (but do not expect it), it can be stopped.
5. Once again, voice activated recorder on you at all times when around her. She will try to get something on you. BELIEVE IT!
6. Go nuclear option on this one. Tell OBS. Tell parents. Tell club. Tell husbands of club members. Wives may be enabling her there. In fact, have the lawyer draft a letter threatening exposure to club patrons & donors that hanky panky is going on there. That club is her life. Hit her where she lives!
7. Don't talk to her. No contact = less pain. 180. Don't answer phone, texts, emails. Tell her communication is to be through lawyer.
8. Doc, strength is what gets us out of these situations the best. You have to look to your future. Your main problem will be tons of women throwing themselves at the rich, attractive, divorcee who is now the most eligible bachelor in town. Take your time, have fun, you are going to have a life most men can't even dream of. Her, not so much, especially after the money runs out. Choose wisely. Time to trade up.


----------



## Taxman

I do not know where you are financially at this point, but I will say that today, actually right now, would be a good time to get to each of your financial institutions to prevent her from emptying accounts. Major insulation is called for, given the attitude you just got. She feels totally entitled, and the comfort of being married to an affluent physician is now evaporating before her very eyes. You pointing out that she is f**king a loser of the lowest degree may now hit her between the eyes. He will not provide a lifestyle that you were going to provide. An itchy vajayjay just cost her big time, and she, if she holds to the script will now attempt to enrich herself at your expense. Please prevent that.

Today is a day to reinforce the barriers. To that end, check in with your solicitors and barristers. Then have a visit with your CPA, and let them know what is happening. They can provide you with some further advice. Do not hesitate to set up trust accounts so that she will have little to no access to funds unless it is on your approval. Serving her may have put her into panic mode, and this is the time where she will be making absolutely idiotic decisions. Guard against these.


----------



## Chaparral

There is no telling what she will do. After she was served she had a long time to consider what was going on. She was ready for you. 

You should close all credit cards and bank accts. Leave some money in one acct she has access to. Ask your lawyer about that because they often clean accts out and run up massive credit card balances.
I would hire a PI to let the other man’s wife know.

Check your credit card accts to see where she is and what she is spending on. Playing nice will get you walked on. She sounds particularly cold.


----------



## TeddieG

tatsuhiko said:


> "...said she could never trust me again". Lol, that's a good one. Cheat on your husband and then tell him that he's not meeting your standards of trustworthiness.


this.


----------



## Txquail

The pics on your phone of her journel. Email them or store them on the cloud. Make sure you change your passwords.

Im just stating this so if your phone gets lost you have access to them.

Heck email them to your wifes parents and the OM wife.

Post them publicly on facebook so all your friends and hers know why your getting a divorce so she cant claim you hit her.


----------



## Yeswecan

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> Doc.
> 
> 1. She is not remorseful. In a true marriage there are NO secrets. Her accusations are bogus. Journaling means LaLa Land.
> 2. Don't plan for R. Plan for D. Doc, YOU are the prize, not her.
> 3. Get checked for STDs as soon as possible. Do not have sex with her. She is possibly carrying permanent diseases. Bad for an MD. If I were you, I wouldn't touch her with a 20 foot telephone pole.
> 4. Go to D as quickly as possible. If she becomes remorseful, and I mean totally, (but do not expect it), it can be stopped.
> 5. Once again, voice activated recorder on you at all times when around her. She will try to get something on you. BELIEVE IT!
> 6. Go nuclear option on this one. Tell OBS. Tell parents. Tell club. Tell husbands of club members. Wives may be enabling her there. In fact, have the lawyer draft a letter threatening exposure to club patrons & donors that hanky panky is going on there. That club is her life. Hit her where she lives!
> 7. Don't talk to her. No contact = less pain. 180. Don't answer phone, texts, emails. Tell her communication is to be through lawyer.
> 8. Doc, strength is what gets us out of these situations the best. You have to look to your future. Your main problem will be tons of women throwing themselves at the rich, attractive, divorcee who is now the most eligible bachelor in town. Take your time, have fun, you are going to have a life most men can't even dream of. Her, not so much, especially after the money runs out. Choose wisely. Time to trade up.


:allhail:


----------



## donesies

Jasel said:


> Don't be surprised if she changes her tune. More than once. And she'll most likely be screwing this guy for most of the time she does. From this point on you have to judge her actions and not her words, although I'd keep contact to an absolute minimum. And she's ****ing another guy, she has no moral high ground. So don't let her gaslight you or blameshift. You'll find cheaters always try to justify their bull**** no matter how illogical their reasoning. And I imagine your marriage was perfectly fine to your wife until she decided to **** another guy.
> 
> It's possible she might snap out of it eventually, not every WS does on D-day. But you still have to proceed with the divorce regardless.
> 
> And I'm not sure how you informed the OMW but make sure that you eventually speak to her either through phone or face to face. I really recommend not leaving messages, sending texts, facebook messages, etc because there's the risk of it not being recieved, intercepted, or not seen for some time (I remember one story here or another site, where the BS found a facebook message from the OBS telling him about his wife's affair over a year previously). But if she doesn't reach out to you within a day or so I'd try call or meet her. You might want to do that anyway. Your wife will already be speaking with the OM which gives him time to get in front of things if OMW doesn't know what's going on at this point in time.
> 
> But keep hanging in there, you've been doing fine so far.


The problem is that I don’t have her phone number or any other way to contact her


----------



## farsidejunky

TeddieG said:


> this.


Is that @TeddieG?

End T/J.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> The problem is that I don’t have her phone number or any other way to contact her


Hire a PI for the afternoon. He/she will find that for you.


----------



## bandit.45

Remember what I said about her being a moron? She just proved it 

Im sorry donesies. Its got to hurt bad, but just know that not too long from now you will find a much better woman to replace her. 

Absolutely tell her parents before she has a chance to lie to them. Tell your family also. You need the support.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> The problem is that I don’t have her phone number or any other way to contact her


A Private Investigator will get that number in no time. You have his name, you know how many kids he has, you know he is with your spouse, you know where they hang out. You have her instagram and facebook accounts. Maybe give the PI his plate number and or home address and they will have her home number and or cell in no time.


----------



## Txquail

Doc,

Since you found her the OM wife on facebook, snd you know the OM name, do a google search on her with the city she lives in.

Webstes like advanced backgroundchecks.com will pop up and show address and phone numbers.

You could write a letter to her and or call her with the info on the web. (Do not go to her home)

Give facebook a couple of days. Also try to friend the OM Wife on facebook. Some people black message attempts by anyone but friends. After you tell her whats going on you can defriend her and I recommend it.

Send me a private message with her name, city and state and OM name and Ill give you their address, phone numbers and emails if you cant get it off google. I know I can.


----------



## donesies

dreamer2017 said:


> Dear Donesies,
> 
> Yeswecan is absolutely on point. Move quickly and contact her parents and OMW. You have nothing to lose and all to gain. She is gone and now it's time to show your strength. Don't let her take control of the situation!!! From this point, you must always be on the offense.
> 
> Good luck,
> Dreamer


Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.


----------



## Txquail

donesies said:


> dreamer2017 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Donesies,
> 
> Yeswecan is absolutely on point. Move quickly and contact her parents and OMW. You have nothing to lose and all to gain. She is gone and now it's time to show your strength. Don't let her take control of the situation!!! From this point, you must always be on the offense.
> 
> Good luck,
> Dreamer
> 
> 
> 
> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.
Click to expand...

Send her father her journal photos. Its hard to defend someone you know is in tbe wrong


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.


But, the law is still the law and that is what determines the property distribution/alimony. As long as you have a good attorney the settlement should be pretty clear, regardless of how hard the other side wants to fight. Just allow your attorney to handle this to the best of his/her ability and if your STBXW wants to fight over every penny, then oblige her, because that will just cause there to be less assets to split.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.


That is what parent do. Get a bigger shark(lawyer). BTW, this is the reason to tell FIL/MIL. FIL may change his tune when he finds his daughter is not quite what he thought she is.


----------



## Rick Blaine

donesies,

*Two Things Can Be Equally True*

First thing: I am very sorry for all that you are going through. This is without a doubt one of the hardest things a person can experience. Your wife cheated on you, and there is never an excuse for her doing that. Her assertion that you violated her privacy by looking at her journals is a typical gaslighting tactic. Her infidelity trumps your snooping by a country mile. It's not even close. She is also shifting the blame by saying the marriage was already dead. Maybe it was a sick marriage in her eyes, but a sick marriage or falling out of love is a problem to be solved together, not an excuse to go off and have an affair. She should have implored you to work on the marriage, and if that failed after a vigorous campaign on her part, she should have divorced you before having an affair. You have gotten terrific advice here on how to proceed. Protect your assets as @Taxman suggested. Listen to him; he knows his stuff.

Second thing: Learn from this. Your wife said the marriage was dead. Yes, she is blame shifting and rewriting history. A classic tactic of wayward spouses. But that does not mean that there isn't some truth in the statement. It is very important for you to reflect on how you could have been a better husband by meeting her needs and not destroying through your actions the love she had for you. You need to reflect so that when you get into your next relationship you can apply any lessons you have learned. I have to be honest and candid: when I read your original post on this thread I was put off by its arrogant tone. You described yourself as a superior person because of your status as a physician and your looks and fitness. Then you put down the OM in comparison to you. If that sort of self-assessment is a part of your personality, it was surely a put off to your wife and others. The second concern I have is that you served her papers with no explanation. Yes, what she did was a horrible, unfathomable betrayal. But to honor the marriage--not her actions--you should have confronted her with your evidence first and the served her later. What you did is the equivalent of breaking up by text message. The term for this is ghosting. I don't believe meaningful relationships should ever end this way, regardless of how badly the other party treated you (except for cases of physical or verbal abuse). Sure, she didn't earn your respect, but I'm a firm believer in two wrongs don't make a right. If you choose to divorce her, that is completely your prerogative. But exiting with grace is a much better option. 

In the final analysis, this is a time to be self-reflective and humble, a time to learn from your part in the break up your marriage, even though ultimately is was her actions that killed it. If you don't reflect now, you can't be a better husband and person when you get married again. 

I went through the same you are going through, and I used the experience as a time to take inventory of myself and examine my conscience. A difficult exercise, but well worth it in the end. 

Wishing you the best as you move forward.


----------



## bandit.45

Time for self reflection is much later after he’s had a good couple of years to heal. Right now he needs to see to his health and well being. He just had a nuclear bomb go off on his lap.


----------



## Rick Blaine

bandit.45 said:


> Time for self reflection is much later after he’s had a good couple of years to heal. Right now he needs to see to his health and well being. He just had a nuvlear bomb ho off on his lap.


I know he has. I had the same bomb explode in my lap. So glad I reflected on the catastrophe as it happened. The unexamined life is not worth living.


----------



## eric1

donesies said:


> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.




Then all the reason to force his hand. He’ll fight MUCH harder if he’s doing so within the context of whatever sob story that she invents for him.


----------



## Primrose

donesies said:


> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.


All the more reason for you to expose the truth to her parents before she has time to come up with the stereotypical, "he treated me so bad that I finally had enough and left".


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.


Let him pay for it then.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies, she will go for alimony, make no mistake about it, If you think by playing nice you somehow will lower your alimony think again.

Her dad can jump up and scream next to the most expensive alimony lawyer on the planet that she deserves alimony for life. That you were a monster who punched her kidneys every day for 7 years leaving no marks and now she is permanently disabled.

Problem is there is zero proof of any of that or anything else besides her infidelity... 

The judge will sigh, look at the short term of the marriage, no children, that although she could work full time she chose to work part time and used that time to cheat. On your dime. 

Then alimony will be awarded. You will never be happy because you have to pay something. She will not be happy because she did not get her hands on every cent you make until you die. Not even close. 

Her daddy being mad and out to get you in the end will make zero difference. Hot air. 

Don't forget, you also have social media. She wants to play dirty so can you. All over facebook you can post all her journal crap.


----------



## Jasel

donesies said:


> The problem is that I don’t have her phone number or any other way to contact her


If you have to spend money or hire a PI to get you her contact information I'd recommend doing so. You really need to talk to her in person either on the phone or face to face, and since you've confronted your wife already the sooner the better.


----------



## donesies

Rick Blaine said:


> donesies,
> 
> *Two Things Can Be Equally True*
> 
> First thing: I am very sorry for all that you are going through. This is without a doubt one of the hardest things a person can experience. Your wife cheated on you, and there is never an excuse for her doing that. Her assertion that you violated her privacy by looking at her journals is a typical gaslighting tactic. Her infidelity trumps your snooping by a country mile. It's not even close. She is also shifting the blame by saying the marriage was already dead. Maybe it was a sick marriage in her eyes, but a sick marriage or falling out of love is a problem to be solved together, not an excuse to go off and have an affair. She should have implored you to work on the marriage, and if that failed after a vigorous campaign on her part, she should have divorced you before having an affair. You have gotten terrific advice here on how to proceed. Protect your assets as @Taxman suggested. Listen to him; he knows his stuff.
> 
> Second thing: Learn from this. Your wife said the marriage was dead. Yes, she is blame shifting and rewriting history. A classic tactic of wayward spouses. But that does not mean that there isn't some truth in the statement. It is very important for you to reflect on how you could have been a better husband by meeting her needs and not destroying through your actions the love she had for you. You need to reflect so that when you get into your next relationship you can apply any lessons you have learned. I have to be honest and candid: when I read your original post on this thread I was put off by its arrogant tone. You described yourself as a superior person because of your status as a physician and your looks and fitness. Then you put down the OM in comparison to you. If that sort of self-assessment is a part of your personality, it was surely a put off to your wife and others. The second concern I have is that you served her papers with no explanation. Yes, what she did was a horrible, unfathomable betrayal. But to honor the marriage--not her actions--you should have confronted her with your evidence first and the served her later. What you did is the equivalent of breaking up by text message. The term for this is ghosting. I don't believe meaningful relationships should ever end this way, regardless of how badly the other party treated you (except for cases of physical or verbal abuse). Sure, she didn't earn your respect, but I'm a firm believer in two wrongs don't make a right. If you choose to divorce her, that is completely your prerogative. But exiting with grace is a much better option.
> 
> In the final analysis, this is a time to be self-reflective and humble, a time to learn from your part in the break up your marriage, even though ultimately is was her actions that killed it. If you don't reflect now, you can't be a better husband and person when you get married again.
> 
> I went through the same you are going through, and I used the experience as a time to take inventory of myself and examine my conscience. A difficult exercise, but well worth it in the end.
> 
> Wishing you the best as you move forward.


Sure, I can see how you would feel that I was arrogant based on my OP. You could also just look at it as presenting the facts in the case so you know what's going on. This is a stigma that I've dealt with since becoming a doctor - people automatically think you're arrogant until proven otherwise.

Of course, I have internally reflected - I can't help that. I could have done things better. But I am here trying to understand and make our marriage work. She moved on.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies, don't blame yourself for any of this. Including not seeing it coming. Your back was turned to someone you trusted implicitly. She used that trust to betray you. It was her choice to betray by stabbing you in the back rather then tell you she had problems with the marriage. Period. End of story.

As a matter of fact she did not actually have any marriage problems UNTIL she cheated. Convenient little justification we see here over and over on TAM, always after the fact. 

As for people who say you must be guilty of something well yes, yes you are. Indeed, you are guilty of trusting her. You are guilty of that.


----------



## Diana7

donesies said:


> Her father is a shark. If he knows the marriage is ending, he will push for blood in an attorney battle. He will protect his daughter’s future.


You haven't been married long and you have no children, I cant see that she will be entitled to that much.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> Sure, I can see how you would feel that I was arrogant based on my OP. You could also just look at it as presenting the facts in the case so you know what's going on. This is a stigma that I've dealt with since becoming a doctor - people automatically think you're arrogant until proven otherwise.
> 
> Of course, I have internally reflected - I can't help that. I could have done things better. But I am here trying to understand and make our marriage work. She moved on.


We all could do a lot of things better. The differences are we work on ourselves, marriages, work, life, etc. when we are aware these need some work. You were left in the dark holding the stethoscope. Do not blame your self for any of this.


----------



## Txquail

Doc,

Once a woman has decided to leave, theres nothing you can do.

Consider your marriage now as a business contract. You need to do whst you can to make the business partnership disolving better for you.


----------



## Cromer

I am very sorry about what you are going through, but at least you found out now rather than having built a long life together, then finding out. If she is saying that your marriage was dead a long time ago, it's as much her fault as yours. You are doing the right thing, it is hard I know but she doesn't want you anymore. I wished that I'd known that my XW didn't want me anymore 12 years ago. I will NEVER marry again. "Hot" women aren't worth taking a risk on when it comes to a committed relationship. I took that risk and it ended badly. But, I'm jaded so take my opinion for what it's worth.


----------



## Chaparral

Rick Blaine said:


> donesies,
> 
> *Two Things Can Be Equally True*
> 
> First thing: I am very sorry for all that you are going through. This is without a doubt one of the hardest things a person can experience. Your wife cheated on you, and there is never an excuse for her doing that. Her assertion that you violated her privacy by looking at her journals is a typical gaslighting tactic. Her infidelity trumps your snooping by a country mile. It's not even close. She is also shifting the blame by saying the marriage was already dead. Maybe it was a sick marriage in her eyes, but a sick marriage or falling out of love is a problem to be solved together, not an excuse to go off and have an affair. She should have implored you to work on the marriage, and if that failed after a vigorous campaign on her part, she should have divorced you before having an affair. You have gotten terrific advice here on how to proceed. Protect your assets as @Taxman suggested. Listen to him; he knows his stuff.
> 
> Second thing: Learn from this. Your wife said the marriage was dead. Yes, she is blame shifting and rewriting history. A classic tactic of wayward spouses. But that does not mean that there isn't some truth in the statement. It is very important for you to reflect on how you could have been a better husband by meeting her needs and not destroying through your actions the love she had for you. You need to reflect so that when you get into your next relationship you can apply any lessons you have learned. I have to be honest and candid: when I read your original post on this thread I was put off by its arrogant tone. You described yourself as a superior person because of your status as a physician and your looks and fitness. Then you put down the OM in comparison to you. If that sort of self-assessment is a part of your personality, it was surely a put off to your wife and others. The second concern I have is that you served her papers with no explanation. Yes, what she did was a horrible, unfathomable betrayal. But to honor the marriage--not her actions--you should have confronted her with your evidence first and the served her later. What you did is the equivalent of breaking up by text message. The term for this is ghosting. I don't believe meaningful relationships should ever end this way, regardless of how badly the other party treated you (except for cases of physical or verbal abuse). Sure, she didn't earn your respect, but I'm a firm believer in two wrongs don't make a right. If you choose to divorce her, that is completely your prerogative. But exiting with grace is a much better option.
> 
> In the final analysis, this is a time to be self-reflective and humble, a time to learn from your part in the break up your marriage, even though ultimately is was her actions that killed it. If you don't reflect now, you can't be a better husband and person when you get married again.
> 
> I went through the same you are going through, and I used the experience as a time to take inventory of myself and examine my conscience. A difficult exercise, but well worth it in the end.
> 
> Wishing you the best as you move forward.


I disagree with everything in this post😇.

Treating someone with respect that stabbed you in the back is foolish and just encourages more immoral behavior. Never reward bad behavior.

Respect isn’t a gift, it has to be earned. There is nothing now you can believe that comes out of her mouth. Believe what she does. It take a person with very little character to cheat and take advantage of their spouses work, love and honor.


----------



## Rob_1

I'm absolutely with chaparral on this one. Screw that, I wouldn't be nice and/or respectful to a cheating ***** and her lover, that"s only for suckers.


----------



## Satya

@donesies, put all of your evidence in a safe place, off-site, that only you have access to. Do not do anything that your stbx or her father says. Only listen to your lawyer now. 

Go make copies of all important financial documents and secure them off-site, too.

Prepare yourself and protect yourself.


----------



## lucy999

donesies said:


> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> .


Nope. She's the scumbag. Mighty rich coming from her cheater mouth.

Time to BLOW. IT. UP.

Tell everyone who will listen so she can't rewrite marital history. 

Show no and I mean NO MERCY.

As others have advised, protect your assets. Now. This is just the beginning. Prepare yourself.

She is your no. 1 enemy. Treat her as such.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


Say the course. Between being in shock and working a demanding profession, you don't have the emotional energy or bandwidth to be tactful in your discussions with her. This is where TAM can help. Read the comment and cherry pick some of the narratives that can help your cause. For all that you're doing well, an ill conceived discussion with her can reverse who has the upper hand. With that said, in my opinion 

1) I would never reveal my sources. The only advantage (and it's a legitimate one) is that it can incite a quicker confession. Sometimes you have to ask yourself, is a confession necessary if you already know the truth. Her confession is important during a reconciliation however and we're not close to that. The downside revealing sources is it gives her the opportunity to divert the discussion and turn it back on you. Simply say you have indisputable evidence and if you have to, cite a fact or two that backs up what you're saying. There's nothing like knowing the truth and the other person not knowing how much and what you know. 

2) She Loves Him - Your entire means forward can revolve around those words. By the way, she probably doesn't really love him, but even she doesn't know this yet. It's limerence she's experiencing, has no idea she's knee deep in it, but that's how it works. Those under the spell go romantically loco for a period of weeks to a few months. Affairs are typically short lived Doc because the betrayed spouse can't compete with the newness the affair partner brings. Being with someone 24/7 means every little pet peeve of hers is magnified and compared against the AP who she only sees for a few fantasy filled hours. The demands of your profession and its long hours, are turned into you not caring about her. You not lowering the toilet seat means you have no manners. Get the picture? Her boyfriend, like most AP's can do no wrong. Should she leave you to test drive the relationship with him, he'll go from a part-timer to a full timer. This is when the wayward begins waking up a little. She'll now hear him farting in the bathroom while putting his uniform to go to work and it'll take her back as it's for real and possibly permanent now. She'll be lying in bed and hear this foghorn of a fart and the shine on this guy's armor will begin to dull ...........quickly. At this juncture, a series of similar occurrences will come to light and you she'll see you for who and what you are and will probably become extremely appreciative of you all of a sudden. You cannot look or wait for this to happen though. You have to remove yourself from infidelity so that you can live in the integrity you have chosen your life to be. This is a process. The more she sees you are moving forward the faster her fog lifts. But by moving forward you are essentially saying, my train's leaving the track and you're either on it or someone else is. Your choice. 

3) In the meantime, you live your f'n life and live it to the fullest. You will look back, but don't stare at the rear view mirror, as you need to recover for yourself first and foremost and then after you recover, you begin putting the pieces to your life (that she shattered) once again. One of those pieces might be her replacement. Being in the medical field, I would presume you have access to information for IC's etc, so do so immediately, as your patients need you to be at your best and you need you to be at your best. 

4) Being a physician, you do not have the time or expertise to chase and snoop after her ass, so hire a P.I. and be done with it. Have him document her clandestine activities and secure his personal information in case you have to sue him for "loss of affection" that some states allow when an affair partner spends time with the wayward that otherwise would be with the betrayed spouse. His employment (if applicable) should be known in the event it can be proven that he was spending time with your wife while working. This is relevant in some jobs like the military or government related work where tax dollars are misappropriated. If he's a fat slob eating cheese puffs, then there's no harm with the exception of the the stains that fall onto his shirt from his slobbery.  

5) This may be one of the few times in your life where you will have to actually pay attention to things you wouldn't have otherwise. Rest, sleep, eating well, exercise and communicating with others you have to focus on, otherwise you will focus on her, which will happen, but if you make a diligent effort to maintain a degree of normalcy, you will be able to manage this situation more effectively. 

6) Task List 

- Build your team of supporters, independent counselor, attorney, accountant, private investigator, trusted confidants
- Schedule an IC for yourself. 
- Notify your attorney about the confrontation with your wife and meet with him on how you proceed tactfully with 
respect to home occupancy rights, having a Voice Activated Recorder on you to document planned or unplanned
discussions. He will inform you of your states laws related to this. 
- Have your accountant inventory your assets and with your attorney begin protecting liquid assets your wife is not 
entitled to
- Consider security cameras in your home. Your wife can be dealing with a professional thief that preys on the wives of 
unsuspecting couples. If you're gone for periods of time, your personal belongings are exposed. Secure them. 
- Her outburst may be the first of many. You have to remember your wife is not the person you met, so you'll have to 
adjust accordingly. Limerence, if I'm not mistaken is a state of mind that has been scientifically proven to enact a 
chemical change in the brain. Much like drug addicts will hurt people they love, so too are those in limerence, so do 
not operate as if she's your wife. She's someone else, until this period has run its course. Treat her as such to protect 
yourself and your assets.
- She will incessantly blame you for her issues. It's a defense mechanism because legitimate reasons are not at her 
disposal. She's grasping for straws, so make sure you see it for what it is. Desperate people assume desperate 
measures for purposes of self preservation, relief from shame, and a litany of reasons only her I.C. will be able to 
unravel. Don't try to solve her or change her. Just stay ahead of her.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Sure, I can see how you would feel that I was arrogant based on my OP. You could also just look at it as presenting the facts in the case so you know what's going on. This is a stigma that I've dealt with since becoming a doctor - people automatically think you're arrogant until proven otherwise.
> 
> Of course, I have internally reflected - I can't help that. I could have done things better. But I am here trying to understand and make our marriage work. She moved on.


On arrogance. Whether it's true or not, now's not the time to spend one iota of energy on this. You're the betrayed spouse battling a set of emotions unlike no other human experience. You are in surviving mode, and belittling your wife's AP is part of the surviving which is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction to neutralize a wave of self doubt and esteem that has understandably taken you by storm. Doc, move on and survive as you see fit. If it requires arrogance, so be it. When people are in a real fight, who cares if you have to knee the other guy in the nuts to win the fight. It's a fight and there are no rules. Do what you have to do and review your methods to "winning" later after victory. F' that!!!!


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

You need to become Doc Nukem on this. No half measures. Remember, You are the prize. Have her live with her folks. Let them know she was screwing him at the house. Hire the PI to find the OBS. Get your lawyer's advice on all this. Do not show her any weakness. It will weaken your position. Good luck. You got this.


----------



## Taxman

I am going to suggest a method which may work in shielding income. Talk to your CPA about forming an LLC. Have all of your income flow through the LLC. All payments, formerly to you can go to the LLC. You then set your own compensation as the employee of the LLC. Depending on provincial or state laws, income derived from the LLC is your PERSONAL income. Income flowing into the LLC, can be viewed as the LLC's income, AND NOT YOURS. There are other features: If she chooses to challenge this, it is on her own nickel. The compensation of physicians, and other professions is currently in flux. You should see your CPA in order to strategize the safeguarding of income and assets. This should be accomplished now, as soon as possible, to prevent your wife from growing a set of brains, and grabbing as much as she can before the divorce.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Chaparral said:


> I disagree with everything in this post😇.
> 
> Treating someone with respect that stabbed you in the back is foolish and just encourages more immoral behavior. Never reward bad behavior.
> 
> Respect isn’t a gift, it has to be earned. There is nothing now you can believe that comes out of her mouth. Believe what she does. It take a person with very little character to cheat and take advantage of their spouses work, love and honor.


Where in the post is rewarding bad behavior suggested? Nowhere. But I believe that if we are respectful we are better people. Sometimes it's very hard to muster respect, and those are the times that mark our character. One can establish firm boundaries and move forward without getting burnt in the scorched Earth. There many ways to fight a war.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Rick Blaine said:


> Where in the post is rewarding bad behavior suggested?


Chaparral specifically said that respectfully treating someone who doesn't deserve respect was rewarding bad behavior. That's where. Someone who read an "arrogant" and "superior" tone (which I didn't see) in the OP's posting should be able to easily appreciate Chaparral's ability to read between the lines.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies, further to my last comment, I want you to safeguard as much as possible, because I am having difficulty with your soon to be ex wife's ultimate motivations. There seems to be a lot going on in the background, PLUS when marital history is rewritten it screams scam to me. It screams an AP who sees the exwife of a physician and smells high alimony/spousal support. Please, hire a shark. You need to be protected.


----------



## dreamer2017

DITTO Taxman!!!!!


----------



## donesies

Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.

I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.

Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.

This is not unfolding the way I expected...


----------



## farsidejunky

Yet... It sounds like it's unfolding better than you had hoped.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


Shows her true heart.


----------



## ABHale

Get it back to your lawyer ASAP. Get it filed before she can back out.


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


I would think that is absolutely the best possible outcome.

Perhaps this was truly an exit affair, you just accelerated it for her. She said it was dead long ago, she loved another man, maybe she was already gone mentally so cutting ties is not that hard.

You are the fastest track to swift success I have ever seen. Discovery to signed docs in less than 7 days. Incredible.

All the more reason to talk to her parents and the OMW.

Get the accounts separated and shutdown immediately.

Is her name on the mortgage?


----------



## 3putt

ABHale said:


> Get it back to your lawyer ASAP. Get it filed before she can back out.


Not to mention locked up those finances ASAP.


----------



## Jasel

> Yet... It sounds like it's unfolding better than you had hoped.


I know it doesn't seem like it at the moment but this.


----------



## VladDracul

I'm taking a bit of a contrarian position on notifying the boyfriends wife, telling her family, et cetera. In the final analysis, why give a rats azz what her parents think? You're history anyway. If the marriage wasn't over from her perspective, she wouldn't be involved with this stooge.
I would not recommend telling the other man's wife or otherwise do anything to interfere with the affair. If your wife feels she has a soft place to land with the other guy, she may not resist the divorce and may even look forward to establishing a new life with him. If I know I going to be cast away with nowhere to go, I'm going to fight harder to stay where I am or try to squeeze resources out of my current benefactor. If I think I've got another comfortable place to go, I may just say the hell with it and hit the trail. Its human nature.


----------



## colingrant

The loss is a shocking one and that's your emotion........completely understandable. You need someone in your corner who loves you unconditionally and doesn't cheat. Today's signature is the first legal step towards that. It's easy to forget, you're someone's prize, just not hers. She's playing a strong game. Don't soften your stance, even if you have to cry and wail in silence. Her actions are resolute actually and you can't ask for more even if they aren't what you would want. Most hem and haw and posture. Fast track this and get back on the market after your grieving completes and your emotional health is restored. Easier for me to day this I know, but the words are no less true. Don't look back, as despite the pain, I still believe you did the right thing. I can't help to think that she's putting on a strong front to see if you crack.


----------



## wilson

donesies said:


> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.


She's living in the fantasy of eternal true love with boyfriend and thinks it will be happily ever after. But what we often see is that the AP just wanted a bit of side fun and has no desire to be tied down. Prepare yourself for her to come crawling back, distraught that boyfriend dumped her and she has nowhere else to go.


----------



## sandcastle

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


This is beautiful! You should be happy dancing down your beautiful street!

Obviously she was so not into you that your lowball offer was signed and she has broken free. Good on you! Excellent! Way to go! 

Except you apparently don't REALLY like her reaction so much. No bother- you are so fabulous you will have a young vixen in the bed sheets in a nano second.

JOB WELL DONE!


----------



## dreamer2017

Change the locks and security code before you leave the house!!!!!


----------



## sandcastle

Taxman said:


> I am going to suggest a method which may work in shielding income. Talk to your CPA about forming an LLC. Have all of your income flow through the LLC. All payments, formerly to you can go to the LLC. You then set your own compensation as the employee of the LLC. Depending on provincial or state laws, income derived from the LLC is your PERSONAL income. Income flowing into the LLC, can be viewed as the LLC's income, AND NOT YOURS. There are other features: If she chooses to challenge this, it is on her own nickel. The compensation of physicians, and other professions is currently in flux. You should see your CPA in order to strategize the safeguarding of income and assets. This should be accomplished now, as soon as possible, to prevent your wife from growing a set of brains, and grabbing as much as she can before the divorce.


Let's not forget unsecured promissory notes, rack up as much communal debt as possible, fight discovery and basically flout every family law statute in existence.

Stop paying taxes and make your income nothing.


----------



## Welsh15

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


Best outcome for you ever! Her rashness and willingness to terminate the relationship is very good for you. Consult your attorney and get those papers filed. I suspect that you will eventually see her back at your doorstep in the next several months. Get ready to slam the door in her face!


----------



## sandcastle

sandcastle said:


> Let's not forget unsecured promissory notes, rack up as much communal debt as possible, fight discovery and basically flout every family law statute in existence.
> 
> Stop paying taxes and make your income nothing.


Wait! Forgot 3rd parties! Put everything in 3rd parties!

Forge quit claim deeds giving your brother an interest in your properties! Take that *****! Brilliant!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


Wow. Her true love for you. Now you know who she really was. 

Change the locks. Tomorrow hand papers to your attorney to file. Stay dark until judge signs and divorce is irrevocably final. Weeks, months, whatever. Then decide on continued exposure. Perhaps a moot point parent's wise but his wife still should know. At some point she has to reach out to you for alimony and such. Play it by how you feel.

This is all a real gut punch. Consider taking some time off to clear your head. Or just join Tinder and get laid. 

Prenup, prenup, prenup, LLC incorporated in 7 layers of trusts held in Cyprus. For next time.


----------



## sandcastle

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Wow. Her true love for you. Now you know who she really was.
> 
> Change the locks. Tomorrow hand papers to your attorney to file. Stay dark until judge signs and divorce is irrevocably final. Weeks, months, whatever. Then decide on continued exposure. Perhaps a moot point parent's wise but his wife still should know. At some point she has to reach out to you for alimony and such. Play it by how you feel.
> 
> This is all a real gut punch. Consider taking some time off to clear your head. Or just join Tinder and get laid.
> 
> Prenup, prenup, prenup, LLC incorporated in 7 layers of trusts held in Cyprus. For next time.


Tinder and Gibraltar for hiding assets!

Perfect.


----------



## sandcastle

But in reality - Dr. amazeballs does not have enough to ferry off to 
Bitcoin or Malta. 

Pretty sure the wee lad knows about tinder. 
And she signed his lowball-

Life is good, Doc!

Go get em


----------



## 3putt

Guys, let's not forget this guy just found out about the cheating a mere week ago and is hurting pretty badly right now. And most of us remember that feeling. All the advice is great and on the money, but we shouldn't forget this guy is absolutely crushed right now.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


That is so awesome.

Get those papers to your lawyer ASAP.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I guess it was your lack of trustworthiness that caused her to vacate so quickly. If only you could have been a person of integrity like her. LOL, what a joke. 

Get that offer counter-signed, notarized, filed, in the books for all eternity. When it turns out that loverboy doesn't want to leave his family, your wife will be back crying. My guess is she's going to spend the rest of her life wondering how she managed to F things up so badly. 

You'll be fine. This will hurt for a long time, but in a few years you'll be a happier man. I look forward to your update 2 years from now when you tell us how well your career is going and how wonderful your nurse girlfriend is.


----------



## sandcastle

GusPolinski said:


> That is so awesome.
> 
> Get those papers to your lawyer ASAP.


Ditto!


----------



## donesies

farsidejunky said:


> Yet... It sounds like it's unfolding better than you had hoped.


Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


----------



## sandcastle

3putt said:


> Guys, let's not forget this guy just found out about the cheating a mere week ago and is hurting pretty badly right now. And most of us remember that feeling. All the advice is great and on the money, but we shouldn't forget this guy is absolutely crushed right now.


TAM hero-

A mere week ago , filed and signed.

Awesome .


----------



## sandcastle

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


Lol. Ouch- hurts when someone does not agree with your fabooshieness.

How is the Iron Man Training going?


----------



## 3putt

sandcastle said:


> TAM hero-
> 
> A mere week ago , filed and signed.
> 
> Awesome .


Your compassion is duly noted.


----------



## farsidejunky

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


I think I said this to you earlier in your thread, but you have to love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the Intolerable.

I know you are hurting, brother...I know it.

Given what she has done, and the amount of remorse she has demonstrated, what would you advise a friend to do if he were in this situation?


----------



## WilliamM

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


You need to care about yourself enough to refuse to tolerate being used the way she is using you. She does not love you.

Don't demean yourself by chasing after someone who does not love you.


----------



## sandcastle

OP needs his own sticky-
Divorce by Donesies .

One week, filed, signed and cheating spouse out of house.
Lowball settlement signed AND the stuffed animals are gone.

No VAR, no PI, No truthalizer, no wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Balls of Steel..


----------



## lucy999

I know you are in so much pain. And I'm sorry. It's going to suck for awhile. But I think you'll find that it'll get easier with the passage of time. Take it day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute if you have to. She's no prize. And I wouldn't be surprised if she came back after the dust settles and the OM dumps her. Because he will. 

Hang in there. I know this'll sound hollow, but you really have done exceptionally well. You just don't see it yet. But you will.


----------



## MJJEAN

donesies said:


> Well she left a long message which was essentially "Why? Why? Why?" and "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" (etc). Pretty emotional and she was obviously crying. I'm not really looking forward to getting home tonight. Not really sure what I'll say....


 She knew at the time and was just hoping she was wrong and you didn't find out about the affair. She's also shocked, hence the tears. She had a plan and you ruined her plan. Now her life is changing outside of her control and she doesn't like it because she was the one who was going to call the shots, dammit!



donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. *She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.*
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal.* Said she could never trust me again* and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


As a former WW who has spent a lot of time talking to other WS's, I see a few possibilities here.

1) She is serious and, to her, the marriage was dead a long time ago. This means her affair was an exit affair to force the end of the marriage and act as a transition relationship while she re-learns how to be single.

2) She never intended the affair to be discovered, never intended to end the marriage, and is basically now trying to manipulate you into taking the blame so you'll chase her and her life can resume as normal, with her having the upper hand despite her adultery.





donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


Either she really gives zero ****s about the marriage and was going to leave anyways or she is trying to manipulate you into chasing her by removing her precious self from your life so you'll desperately try to get her back because she knows she is so precious you can't live without her. I mean, after all, she is so wonderful she snagged you in the first place and then she successfully got another woman's husband! She's clearly all that! *I'm rolling my eyes so hard it hurts*

Do not count on this to last. If her AP doesn't leave his wife and dumps her, she'll come begging back with plenty of ways to make this all your fault. DO NOT FALL FOR THAT RIDICULOUSNESS.



donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


Refer to quote above where I bolded. She explained to you that your marriage has been dead for a long time and that she cannot trust you. Turns out, death is permanent and you can't trust her, either. Do you really want to spend your life with a woman who committed adultery against you, that doesn't trust you, and that you cannot trust?

Also, speaking of that, it's complete bullshyte. When a couple marry, two become one. There is no such thing as privacy or snooping. So, really, it's just her that cannot be trusted.

If you have a lick of common sense to go with all that book learnin', you'll expose the affair to everyone as soon as those divorce papers get back to your lawyer. Make sure it's known she had an affair, that the affair is the reason for the divorce, and that you are not in the wrong here. Protect your reputation because she will drag you through the mud.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


Can't reconcile until you know who you're reconciling with. I'm not sure you know this version of your wife and it would be wise to see what version of her will be true moving forward.


----------



## Taxman

My opinion of her just hit rock bottom, not only is she a cheater, but a royal f'ing idiot. Wonder if she even bothered seeing a lawyer. This is great news, you will be completely rid of her and minor financial implications to boot. Donesies, you are relatively young, are in practice in a lucrative career, and are footloose and fancy free as of now. All that is required is the stroke of a pen by some judge a few months down the road and done. Good on you sir.

Donesies, for her to just sign and walk, you can be assured that her head is in rainbow unicornland. You need that like a hole in the head. As a physician you can appreciate that any additional orifice is counterintuitive.


----------



## seadoug105

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


:surprise:

Hey Man! 

I might sound a bit out of step with what everyone is saying, but I know must probably feel this way...

My heart hurt a little when read this! Wow!!!!! She could have pretended to fight to save your marriage! I thought even cheaters had some level of attachment!

That being said.... it's tooooooo easy! Get the train moving, you can always slow it down but you can't really ever speed it up! 

Your heart will heal best in time and loving hands!


----------



## Rob_1

Lord. I knew it, I could sense it a mile away, another weak guy, that is trying to hold onto a glimmer of hope: regardless of self respect, and pride. Willing to take back a cheating woman that has not respect or emphaty for her husband.

It hasn't been 24 hours and this man is already faltering; realizing that his strong ruse to shock back his disgusting cheating wife is not crying back to him. 
What's wrong with today's men? They are lacking, in manhood, character, and most of all: self respect. OP you shouldn't even be contemplating anything with this woman, you should be saying: it doesn't matter the when, who, why, where, just that you did. Game over, marriage over. For crying out loud, I'm 65 and happily married, but make no mistake, still, if I wanted I could get beautiful women much younger than I, so why can't you? When you're still young and have the world by your hand for your picking when it comes to women.

Quit those weak thoughts of you still thinking of doing D or R. That's just you still in shock from the pain of the **** sandwich you just received. Stay strong my friend.


----------



## donesies

sandcastle said:


> Lol. Ouch- hurts when someone does not agree with your fabooshieness.
> 
> How is the Iron Man Training going?


Sorry - what is Fabooshieness?

Marathon training is good. Actually, despite this, I've been hitting PRs lately. Go figure.


----------



## Marc878

You are still in love with who you thought she was. That person is not who she is.

Better wake up to the hard truth. And take her down of the pedestal you have her on.


----------



## the other road

What about her? what is she like? perhaps she feels inferior to you with all of your accomplishments. Do you build each other up or is the relationship one sided? it just sounds odd to me that she would choose someone so different from you. Perhap he is a kind and considerate person. Maybe he makes her feel loved and smart and beautiful. Do You? Sometimes we all get wrapped up in our own accomplishments and forget to build up the one we love. Are you sure that the relationship is real or just a fantasy? It seems odd that she wouldn't keep the journal hidden, unless she wanted you to find it. I tink a very long and honest talk isin order. Be sure to listen and really hear what she is saying,if you want your marriage to work. Thee is certainly something a bit odd going on.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Even if she ends up being R material, follow through and complete the divorce ASAP. Once you are divorced, she can work to win you back and remarry you with an iron-clad prenuptial agreement. The agreement will be evidence of her genuine commitment to you as a person, and not to the financial security you offer.


----------



## sandcastle

donesies said:


> Sorry - what is Fabooshieness?
> 
> Marathon training is good. Actually, despite this, I've been hitting PRs lately. Go figure.


Faboosh - fabulous mixed in with ooshiness-

Just so faboosh- the purse, the ass, the toned bod, the eyes, the marathon run, the practice , the volunteer work, ya know FABOOSH!
Perez Hilton coined the term.

You got off cheap Dr. Fab

And who knew a beauty trophy wife would go get nasty with a lowlife , jobless loser.

Is this real?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


 C'mon man, you have worked your ass off to achieve great success, you had to have respect for yourself to do that. Where is that self-respect now? Imagine the miserable life you will have being warden to your cheating money vacuum until you die or she just leaves, which she eventually would.
It takes two to reconcile and she obviously wants no part of it. Keep the hammer down towards D. The only way this could be going better for you is if your lowball offer had been lower.
Stay strong and keep on truckin'.


----------



## Cromer

Dude, you are so lucky. I am paying $60k/year for lifetime alimony out of my retirement and income investments and lost 55% of all other assets ($1 mil). But, it was worth it. You dang sure dodged a bullet. My divorce went through in 4 months but the cost was high. I have no regrets. You shouldn't either. You made the right decision, and this is coming from a fellow career professional who couldn't always be there because of the demands of the job that gave my wife and family so many advantages (military officer).

My advice to you would be to never marry again. NEVER. Screw that, women in committed relationships are trouble. They can control you with sex. Plus, I had NO CLUE how easy it was to get women these days, even as an average looking Joe. When I was dating, and yes I may be looking back with rose-colored glasses, but chicks didn't give it up easily. You had to romance, woo, pursue, etc. Especially the hot ones. My wife was my first and only until the divorce. Today? It's a meat market. Women give it up so easily now! Get this, I've been hit on by two married women since the divorce became news. I was swarmed at church and at the volunteer organization I work with when it became known I was single. I am not the dude with a chiseled chin with a three-day-scrub that is so popular today. I have no idea why but I could have a different woman every week if I wanted. Yes, I'm a little bitter but I'm getting laid now, so what the heck.

Life is good on the other side. Trust me.


----------



## MJJEAN

the other road said:


> it just sounds odd to me that she would choose someone so different from you.





sandcastle said:


> And who knew a beauty trophy wife would go get nasty with a lowlife , jobless loser.
> 
> Is this real?


Let me esplain.

I can't tell you all how many men and women I have known over the years who cheated with someone objectively less appealing than their spouse. All had the same answer when asked why they "affair'd down". It's attraction. Raw physical attraction. It has nothing to do with appearance, nothing to do with bank balance, or accomplishments, or education, or even personality and everything to do with chemical compatibility. In other words, he made her wet. That simple.


----------



## sandcastle

MJJEAN said:


> Let me esplain.
> 
> I can't tell you all how many men and women I have known over the years who cheated with someone objectively less appealing than their spouse. All had the same answer when asked why they "affair'd down". It's attraction. Raw physical attraction. It has nothing to do with appearance, nothing to do with bank balance, or accomplishments, or education, or even personality and everything to do with chemical compatibility. In other words, he made her wet. That simple.


Honey- you don't need to splain nothin.
Get it ? Got it? Good.

Carry on.


----------



## Taxman

Doctor, you have just dodged a major bullet. Take what has been given you, and believe me when I say this, many men would envy you getting the lowball offer accepted without a fight. Get those docs registered, notarized, bronzed, framed whatever. In a month, when the shock of this wears off, and you begin to realize that everything that you have written in this thread was apparent, and you wanted to look the other way, then you realized that you could not overlook the patent disrespect of the whole thing. You are obviously accomplished and there is an entire world of women who will not overlook quality. Doctor, be well, heal yourself.


----------



## Red Sonja

Cromer said:


> My advice to you would be to never marry again. NEVER. Screw that, women in committed relationships are trouble. They can control you with sex. Plus, I had NO CLUE how easy it was to get women these days, even as an average looking Joe. When I was dating, and yes I may be looking back with rose-colored glasses, but chicks didn't give it up easily. You had to romance, woo, pursue, etc. Especially the hot ones. My wife was my first and only until the divorce. Today? It's a meat market. Women give it up so easily now! Get this, I've been hit on by two married women since the divorce became news. I was swarmed at church and at the volunteer organization I work with when it became known I was single. I am not the dude with a chiseled chin with a three-day-scrub that is so popular today. I have no idea why but I could have a different woman every week if I wanted. Yes, *I'm a little bitter *but I'm getting laid now, so what the heck.


A _little _bitter?! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You just maligned an entire gender with your bull****.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


Donesies I will say what I have said before and believe. If your wife truly was in love with you she never would have cheated. Her quick turnaround from her text to moving and signing the divorce papers shows her true heart and feelings for you. Sorry to be so blunt but it’s the best way you know. You still love the woman you married, she no longer exists.


----------



## Dyokemm

LMAO.....so the M has been dead for years huh?

Then why in the h*ll was her first reaction after getting served panic and begging you why you couldn’t have talked about things first?

IMO.....she was flat out busted and after you exposed you knew of her A, she realized the game was over.....

Oh....she threw out a denial that anything was really going on, it was not an A.....and then acted all huffy about you ‘invading’ her privacy.....

But I think that was just her trying to save face.....

Also, one reason why she may have just quietly left is in hopes that if she just signs what you want, you will not expose the A to her to friends and family......throwing away a new doctor for a scummy, fat, married, POSOM with 3 kids might lead them to question her sanity...

She doesn’t want to look the fool.....

Also, she is probably hoping her giving you what you want will stop you from blowing up her POS ‘soulmate’ with his BW.....she probably thinks that once he has his ducks in a row, he will be filing for D and they can ride off into the sunset.....

Since most of these M POSOMs never end up leaving their BW’s and families, she may be in for a very rude awakening here very quickly.

As soon as you confirm the A with scumbag’s BW, he will probably throw your stbxWW under the bus and try to save his own a**.....especially since your WW will not be leaving with a big gravy train for him to mooch off of for the next few years.

Your soon to be ex WW is likely to soon find herself completely alone with a far lesser lifestyle standard.....

Oh well for her.....the price to be paid for traitorous stupidity.


----------



## Rick Blaine

And I thought Vegas weddings were fast....


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Red Sonja said:


> A _little _bitter?! :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> You just maligned an entire gender with your bull****.


I don't want to get off topic, but how did he malign anyone? By reporting his observations about the behavior of women he's met? Are the women he's met not chaste enough for your liking? I thought women were supposed to be proud of their sexuality and freedom to pursue sexual relationships. Or did that only apply last week? It's hard to keep track of feminism's dogma du jour.


----------



## skerzoid

Doc

1. I think she wants this over quickly and quietly.

2. Do not do a pick me dance now even though you are hurting. She is not remorseful. She will see it as a sign of weakness.

3. Get yourself into therapy.

4. Get the STD check.

5. Change the locks, accounts, etc.

6. Get the papers filed yesterday if not sooner.

7. HAVE NO, >I REPEAT< NO PERSONAL CONTACT WHAT SO EVER EXCEPT THROUGH YOUR ATTORNEY!!

8. Eat right, hydrate. You are in training.

I was a Head Coach in 5 sports and athletic director for almost 50 years. I suffered tremendous defeats and celebrated great victories. I coached athletes who went on to to participate at every level in the colleges and pros. I coached Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, Jet fighter pilots, Naval Officers, Rich business men, and one an NFL QB. The greatest of them usually had to overcome some tremendous personal heartbreak or setback of some sort. In overcoming this, they became champions. My own son overcame Tourette's Syndrome to become a Cornhusker. He has a beautiful family and is an executive for one of the biggest Fortune 500 companies today. Why do I tell you this? Because I want to see you overcome the most painful thing that can happen to a human being - personal betrayal by a loved one. Julius Caesar's last words were "You too Brutus?" It even broke the heart of Jesus Christ. You can overcome this. You will come out a champion. And remember, Pain is just Weakness leaving the body.


----------



## Diana7

Cromer said:


> Dude, you are so lucky. I am paying $60k/year for lifetime alimony out of my retirement and income investments and lost 55% of all other assets ($1 mil). But, it was worth it. You dang sure dodged a bullet. My divorce went through in 4 months but the cost was high. I have no regrets. You shouldn't either. You made the right decision, and this is coming from a fellow career professional who couldn't always be there because of the demands of the job that gave my wife and family so many advantages (military officer).
> 
> My advice to you would be to never marry again. NEVER. Screw that, women in committed relationships are trouble. They can control you with sex. Plus, I had NO CLUE how easy it was to get women these days, even as an average looking Joe. When I was dating, and yes I may be looking back with rose-colored glasses, but chicks didn't give it up easily. You had to romance, woo, pursue, etc. Especially the hot ones. My wife was my first and only until the divorce. Today? It's a meat market. Women give it up so easily now! Get this, I've been hit on by two married women since the divorce became news. I was swarmed at church and at the volunteer organization I work with when it became known I was single. I am not the dude with a chiseled chin with a three-day-scrub that is so popular today. I have no idea why but I could have a different woman every week if I wanted. Yes, I'm a little bitter but I'm getting laid now, so what the heck.
> 
> Life is good on the other side. Trust me.


Just interested about what your church teaches about casual sex?


----------



## Diana7

Tatsuhiko said:


> I don't want to get off topic, but how did he malign anyone? By reporting his observations about the behavior of women he's met? Are the women he's met not chaste enough for your liking? I thought women were supposed to be proud of their sexuality and freedom to pursue sexual relationships. Or did that only apply last week? It's hard to keep track of feminism's dogma du jour.


Many women don't act that way believe me.


----------



## Diana7

Rob_1 said:


> Lord. I knew it, I could sense it a mile away, another weak guy, that is trying to hold onto a glimmer of hope: regardless of self respect, and pride. Willing to take back a cheating woman that has not respect or emphaty for her husband.
> 
> It hasn't been 24 hours and this man is already faltering; realizing that his strong ruse to shock back his disgusting cheating wife is not crying back to him.
> What's wrong with today's men? They are lacking, in manhood, character, and most of all: self respect. OP you shouldn't even be contemplating anything with this woman, you should be saying: it doesn't matter the when, who, why, where, just that you did. Game over, marriage over. For crying out loud, I'm 65 and happily married, but make no mistake, still, if I wanted I could get beautiful women much younger than I, so why can't you? When you're still young and have the world by your hand for your picking when it comes to women.
> 
> Quit those weak thoughts of you still thinking of doing D or R. That's just you still in shock from the pain of the **** sandwich you just received. Stay strong my friend.


It may be that he values marriage and doesn't want to give up that easily. With many men here it all seems to be about the fact that they can now get young women into bed. Yipee doo. Not all men are like that, some love their wives and don't want casual relationships with someone young enough to be their daughter. They value marriage and have moral values and integrity.


----------



## Diana7

3putt said:


> Guys, let's not forget this guy just found out about the cheating a mere week ago and is hurting pretty badly right now. And most of us remember that feeling. All the advice is great and on the money, but we shouldn't forget this guy is absolutely crushed right now.


Exactly, no matter what the reason a marriage ending is a horrible thing. Its like a tearing apart and honestly all this advise to 'get laid' isn't going to help him one little bit and is terrible advise. He is still married and hurting and grieving and committing adultery isn't what he needs right now.


----------



## Diana7

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


Yes and its very sad. :frown2: I get you, you still love her and you still value your marriage. I am sure that you hoped she would fight more for you and the marriage, and are sad that she didn't(or hasn't yet anyway).


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> Marathon training is good. Actually, despite this, I've been hitting PRs lately. Go figure.


Anger is good fuel.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> To address a couple others:
> 
> 1. I messaged the OMW on social media (both FB and Instagram). She didn’t respond on either and the messages are not showing up as being viewed. Not sure how to proceed.
> 
> 2. I have not spoken to her parents. Should I?


Yes


----------



## Townes

As a grown man I really don't care what someone else's parents think of me. She's going to rewrite history to them? Yeah, don't care. They're not going to be a part of your life anymore. It seems like very childish lashing out to me. The other woman I understand. She has a right to know.


----------



## eric1

Now that paperwork will be filed then it’s probably not worth letting the parents know by call. Her boyfriend’s spouse is beyond critical to approach, it’ll throw her off her game.

One point about the parents, I’d personally send them a handwritten note saying goodbye. That’s just how I roll. You could always make sure they knew about the affair by closing with something about the pain that her affair has caused (I don’t know exactly what to say, but it would need to be in context)


----------



## Goose54

ABHale said:


> Donesies I will say what I have said before and believe. If your wife truly was in love with you she never would have cheated. Her quick turnaround from her text to moving and signing the divorce papers shows her true heart and feelings for you. Sorry to be so blunt but it’s the best way you know. *You still love the woman you married, she no longer exists.*


This!!!^^^^^^^^^ She is not R material.


----------



## Satya

She probably just wants to go quietly to salvage her rep. Does it matter at this point. She was clearly done with the marriage a while ago. As others said, take this as a blessing, even if it doesn't feel that way right now.


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


This is a normal reaction that most people in your situation have gone through. You are struggling because your head and heart aren't in sync with what you want emotionally and what you know is best logically, and it's causing an internal conflict. When I went through this it took about 6 visit with a counselor for me to get my head on straight and have my emotions and reasoning get back in sync with each other so I could move forward. Once you realize that your wife has the right to choose her pathway with/without you, and you have the right to expect a loyal wife, especially with all you bring to the table, then it becomes easier to detach. I highly recommend finding a good counselor to help speed this along or you might be floundering for quite some time. 

To tell the truth, I was hoping my XW would come begging back to me after I filed for divorce and she never did, so I proceeded to divorce her. It was actually a blessing because it saved me from having to make the decision as to whether we could R or D. I hope you get this same blessing because it makes the path forward much clearer. I'm 2.5 years past divorce and life is better than it's ever been. That's not to say that I don't miss having a unified family, because I do, but the benefits significantly outweigh the loss for me. Not having kids puts you in a much better spot than most of us because you won't feel like you have the responsibility tied with severing a family. Now you are mostly dealing with the thought of rejection, and that is hard for anyone that has a Type A personality and is used to always getting what they want if they work hard enough for it.


----------



## lucy999

@donesies don't chase after a sparkly turd. Google chump lady and read her blog.


----------



## VladDracul

colingrant said:


> Can't reconcile until you know who you're reconciling with. I'm not sure you know this version of your wife and it would be wise to see what version of her will be true moving forward.


Even if reconciliation is on the table, it very seldom works if the betrayed spouse is the one seeking it. Why would it? Its the cheating spouse who was seeking something, whatever the reason, outside the marriage and now that's fettered by discovery. The underlying desires and the attitude of the cheating spouse does not merely disappear because the betrayed spouse wants to keep the marriage intact. That's why you read followup threads titled, "R in play but little or no sex after six months".


----------



## donesies

the other road said:


> What about her? what is she like? perhaps she feels inferior to you with all of your accomplishments. Do you build each other up or is the relationship one sided? it just sounds odd to me that she would choose someone so different from you. Perhap he is a kind and considerate person. Maybe he makes her feel loved and smart and beautiful. Do You? Sometimes we all get wrapped up in our own accomplishments and forget to build up the one we love. Are you sure that the relationship is real or just a fantasy? It seems odd that she wouldn't keep the journal hidden, unless she wanted you to find it. I tink a very long and honest talk isin order. Be sure to listen and really hear what she is saying,if you want your marriage to work. Thee is certainly something a bit odd going on.


I suspect you are correct. It was long about me and she seemed to like it that way, but I didn’t. I sought ways to give her her space, time, and freedom by allowing her to work part time and have essentially unlimited funds. I guess that wasn’t what she needed.


----------



## ButtPunch

I know it doesn't feel like it now but this is a blessing.

File the papers and move on with your life.

Plenty of women out there who would respect you.

Plenty of women out their with better moral fiber.

Be glad kids were not involved.

Nothing puts stress on a marriage like kids.


----------



## donesies

Dyokemm said:


> As soon as you confirm the A with scumbag’s BW, he will probably throw your stbxWW under the bus and try to save his own a**.....especially since your WW will not be leaving with a big gravy train for him to mooch off of for the next few years..


She will have a pretty good stack of cash, but it’s not nearly what I thought she would get. It’s still good money. My alimony easy trumps his salary.


----------



## Chaparral

You gave her unlimited time? What does that mean?
You have a doctors schedule.
Friends of mine have done Iron Man and no time left for family and a normal work week.
Your wife found out she could not have children. Depression?
It’s often posted here a couple have to have at least fifteen hours of together time per week. 
This balance sheet doesn’t add up to a sustainable relationship.
I didn’t catch the Ironman thing until someone mentioned it. A builder I work with that did it for one year said he had no time for work and family.


----------



## Cromer

Diana7 said:


> Just interested about what your church teaches about casual sex?


None that I know of, but I have to admit that I was in a weird place and was surprised at things. I'm not a saint and don't claim to be one.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Diana7 said:


> It may be that he values marriage and doesn't want to give up that easily. With many men here it all seems to be about the fact that they can now get young women into bed. Yipee doo. Not all men are like that, some love their wives and don't want casual relationships with someone young enough to be their daughter. They value marriage and have moral values and integrity.


My counselor and many others close to me have said that no matter how I handled things, my wife - STBXW would have still done the same thing and chose another path ... maybe. I don't regret Giving it everything I had over a span of 7 months to save a 14 year marriage with 2 wonderful kids ... even as she told me she didn't love me, she wasn't attracted to me and didn't want to be with me as husband and wife anymore. I just didn't want to believe, I thought it was the 'fog' that I could snap her out of it eventually. The only regret I do have that may have saved things at least for the time being is if I would have gone to more drastic measures earlier in the process of when I knew, "Houston, we have a problem" and she was starting to doubt our marriage and her love for me, just 2 weeks after I found out about the initial affair. I tried to save it, to change to be everything she said she needed but in turn I just let their relationship blossom and turn into a raging fire over that 7 months as she lied to me and said that he was just a friend and the reason our marriage was faltering was the years that led up to the affair.

Maybe, just maybe I could have shocked her out of it early but who knows. In my mind I regret not sticking up for myself sooner. In my heart and soul, it actually still feels like I did the right thing by trying to save it on my own and in the end, she still wanted a divorce from me, with very little remorse and her mind convinced she would be happier this way and the kids would eventually be better off with a happier mother.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> She will have a pretty good stack of cash, but it’s not nearly what I thought she would get. It’s still good money. My alimony easy trumps his salary.


Doc, I think you know a lot of women fall for a medical degree rather than the guy who earned it. In the future, make sure its you and not your image she's, (who ever she is), is after.


----------



## Lostinthought61

no one comes out of a marriage without scars, could you have been a better husband, spent less time doing other things probably...yes but in the same light she could have also been a better wife, partner, she could have stopped from crossing that line of infidelity, she could have told you how she felt, that she was afraid that she was becoming to friendly with another man, maybe it might have been a wake up call to you maybe not....the point being she didn't...she made that decision for you...no one held a gun to her head, no one....she decided to cheat and cheat again....regardless of who she cheated on she did it for herself and to hurt her husband...end of story.

now Doneies, the ball is in your court as you move on with life, trust me there will be no shortage of women clamoring to want to date you, and they will pour it all out there for you for their special rose ceremony...i hight suggest the following so your not here again in 5-10 years and with kids.

1. get some therapy, you need to work out 
2. you need to figure out what is important to you 
3. hold off dating until you can figure out the first 2 items
4. if you do get married again please please please get a pre-nup (with a infidelity clause) 
5. Don't marry a woman who does not have a why to sustain their own living with out you.


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> You gave her unlimited time? What does that mean?
> You have a doctors schedule.
> Friends of mine have done Iron Man and no time left for family and a normal work week.
> Your wife found out she could not have children. Depression?
> It?s often posted here a couple have to have at least fifteen hours of together time per week.
> This balance sheet doesn?t add up to a sustainable relationship.
> I didn?t catch the Ironman thing until someone mentioned it. A builder I work with that did it for one year said he had no time for work and family.


The context of that post was: was everything about you or did you allow her to be her own person?

To that, my answer was that I gave her unlimited money and all the time in the world to pursue those ventures. Whether or not she had my time was a completely different question. She did, but she spent more of her time doing her own thing and we rarely did things together, especially in this past year. But we both seemed content with that, so I didn’t worry about it straining a relationship. We were married after all and I had her vow to be with me through everything. I figured she would tell me if there was a problem.

I run marathons, not triathalons. Also, the way that I train is highly unorthodox and does not require an extensive time commitment. I work out at very high intensity for no more than 45 minutes a day and that does it. The reason that I even brought it up was because I wanted to show that I don’t just let myself go. I am in shape and I like to think of myself as good-looking. The OM is not.

I’ve learned a tremendous amount about love and attraction over the last few days. I could never be attracted to a married, out-of-shape female. Women are obviously built differently. 

Someone once said: you can ignore reality, but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.

Pretty much


----------



## dadstartingover

Diana7 said:


> It may be that he values marriage and doesn't want to give up that easily. With many men here it all seems to be about the fact that they can now get young women into bed. Yipee doo. Not all men are like that, some love their wives and don't want casual relationships with someone young enough to be their daughter. They value marriage and have moral values and integrity.


So, he values the institution of marriage and sacrifices everything to fulfill that obligation... EVEN IF the other person says with their actions "Yeah, no thanks. Moving on. I have no interest in this relationship any further." 

That makes sense. 

Do you also stick with your employer after you found out that they've been lying about earnings for years and the CEO has been stealing millions of dollars from the employee pension fund? I mean, you interviewed with the guy and he has always been great to you and you signed a contract saying you would give him your best effort for many years... might as well go down with the ship, right??

No, you leave. You say "F this noise" and run for your life. Hey, you had some good times with the company and you believed in the product and vision they had... but then you learned it was all a sham. Man.. that stinks. "Oh well. Time to polish up the resume and learn from my mistakes!"

Marriage doesn't work that way, does it? It's wrapped in the warm blanket of comfort, servitude, religion (for some) and providership. Men give their all to fulfilling this husband role and then WHOOPS! It was all a scam. Sorry about that. Now what, cowboy? "Nothing... I got nothing. I'm lost." most men say. 

Starting over is tough. Hanging on is easy. It's going through the motions. Keep telling yourself and everyone that you're doing it for some noble cause. Your ex figuratively beats you over the head with a rolling pin and you stand their with blood dripping down your face. "Aren't I a great husband, everyone!?!"

And don't start grasping for straws and making everyone that has the BALLS to leave a wh*re of a wife as some kind of midlife crisis-having monster. We have dignity. We are men. Look into it.


----------



## Thor

Doc, your outcome is why I recommend against exposure when you want D. At least until the divorce is finalized. It is my understanding that she signed forms for an un-contested divorce, meaning she agreed in her document as respondent to the terms you filed as plaintiff. So now you wait for a judge to sign off on everything.

So the deal is not done. Not until the judge signs off on it.

I recommend you make no further attempts at exposure to OM's W until your divorce is finalized. It is theoretically possible for your stbxw to file an amendment. While it would be a difficult thing for her to prevail, if she or her shark father decides it was a bad idea to sign the papers, it could create a delay and uncertainty in the outcome for you. You need her to stay in la-la land as long as possible.

The judge in my D is a real piece of work. An activist social warrior minority female. On paper I was getting a lot more than the law provided for. No alimony! What wasn't on paper was why, which is my xw is inheriting a lot more money than I will ever have. So the agreement was fair, but it sure didn't look like it on paper. I held my breath for the entire 90 day waiting period until the judge signed off on it!

The judge has very wide discretion. If your wife should file some sob story it could work to undo the agreement you currently have. So don't rock the boat with exposure just yet.

Once it is signed off, nuke her from orbit if you like. Definitely make sure OMW knows of the affair. She does have the right to know.


----------



## Chaparral

How did your wife and you take the news that she would not be able to have children. Had you discussed adoption? 

It has been shown over and over here how susceptible spouses are to adultery that are depressed. We also hear the marriage being dead remark often. The betrayed spouse though never seems to have had a clue there were problems.
Men are often betrayed by their inability to read their wive’s mind.

Here reaction, to getting served and quickly signing the divorce papers, is very strange. I thought I had seen everything here but I haven’t seen this reaction. Do you know where she went?


----------



## Chaparral

It’s been mentioned before but if you do not have anyone you feel like you can talk to about this, please find a counselor. You have to talk this out in order to move on.


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> Well. Sort of...I guess. I still don't know if I want R or D. We took a giant step toward D today.


You can not R with a wife who will not admit to betraying you, is not remorseful, who is in love with another man, and most of all, does not want R.

By acting so quickly, she showed you that she had her exit strategy planned and ready. She just had to pull the trigger and she just did that.

Get R out of your head - not possible. Even if you sill entertain that possibility - she does not. She has made that decision for you. Just like she made the decision to cheat without your input, she has taken R off the table.

Accept it.

Move on.


----------



## drifting on

Done

I work with physicians at my part time job, I’ve seen them go through divorce with a spouse. The part I want to tell you is that each physician who’s wife cheated, the wife had tons of regret. Not in a monetarily way, but in a way of the person they lost. Our ER physicians are contracted through the hospital I work for, shorter hours but an amazing income. So some of these wives had it really good, a good man and not much of a financial issue. But each one thought they had found something better, something that loved them more, something they connected to in ways they couldn’t imagine. That’s part of never never land, it clouds the mind from reality in a steep way.

Your wife has given you the best gift one could dream of by signing and leaving. To you it will not appear this way, you remember what she fooled you into to thinking what she was. She is showing her true colors now, and it’s not attractive at all. However to an overweight, broke, three kids father, she will be a goddess in every way. The same goddess you married, but ask yourself, is that what she really is? No, she’s showing you that she is really garbage until she becomes a healthier person through therapy. I highly doubt that’s coming anywhere in the near future. 

Focus on you, focus on your work, focus on your training, then detach from your wife. You may think this is difficult, but if you look at her actions, lies, and lack of character or boundaries, you will find it much easier. Best of luck to you.


----------



## GusPolinski

Time and distance is what you need, Doc.

It’s the same with any wound.


----------



## M042

stillfightingforus said:


> My counselor and many others close to me have said that no matter how I handled things, my wife - STBXW would have still done the same thing and chose another path ... maybe. I don't regret Giving it everything I had over a span of 7 months to save a 14 year marriage with 2 wonderful kids ... even as she told me she didn't love me, she wasn't attracted to me and didn't want to be with me as husband and wife anymore. I just didn't want to believe, I thought it was the 'fog' that I could snap her out of it eventually. The only regret I do have that may have saved things at least for the time being is if I would have gone to more drastic measures earlier in the process of when I knew, "Houston, we have a problem" and she was starting to doubt our marriage and her love for me, just 2 weeks after I found out about the initial affair. I tried to save it, to change to be everything she said she needed but in turn I just let their relationship blossom and turn into a raging fire over that 7 months as she lied to me and said that he was just a friend and the reason our marriage was faltering was the years that led up to the affair.
> 
> Maybe, just maybe I could have shocked her out of it early but who knows. In my mind I regret not sticking up for myself sooner. In my heart and soul, it actually still feels like I did the right thing by trying to save it on my own and in the end, she still wanted a divorce from me, with very little remorse and her mind convinced she would be happier this way and the kids would eventually be better off with a happier mother.


the problem with how you handled it-- how you gave it all you had for 7 months- was that you COULD have gotten her back if you had shown strength. Feels like you still do not understand this.


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> How did your wife and you take the news that she would not be able to have children. Had you discussed adoption?
> 
> It has been shown over and over here how susceptible spouses are to adultery that are depressed. We also hear the marriage being dead remark often. The betrayed spouse though never seems to have had a clue there were problems.
> Men are often betrayed by their inability to read their wive’s mind.
> 
> Here reaction, to getting served and quickly signing the divorce papers, is very strange. I thought I had seen everything here but I haven’t seen this reaction. Do you know where she went?


We discussed adoption once and she said she was opposed to it. I really wanted it.

I don't have any idea why she's gone nuclear like this. She went to stay with her brother.


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> It’s been mentioned before but if you do not have anyone you feel like you can talk to about this, please find a counselor. You have to talk this out in order to move on.


I've already made an appointment for a counselor tomorrow


----------



## donesies

TDSC60 said:


> You can not R with a wife who will not admit to betraying you, is not remorseful, who is in love with another man, and most of all, does not want R.
> 
> By acting so quickly, she showed you that she had her exit strategy planned and ready. She just had to pull the trigger and she just did that.
> 
> Get R out of your head - not possible. Even if you sill entertain that possibility - she does not. She has made that decision for you. Just like she made the decision to cheat without your input, she has taken R off the table.
> 
> Accept it.
> 
> Move on.


Hard to accept that everything that you've known and loved has evaporated in 1 week. People are referencing being in this state for months. I'm trying.


----------



## omark9343

Really ... Dang that really is sad man .. Hopefully you dont have any kids with this woman and you can just leave in the middle of the night I would 

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


----------



## donesies

I spoke to my attorney this morning. He is going to come by and pick up the signed paperwork to file today.

He recommended that I cut a check for the value of the assets and first month of alimony (per the agreement) and give it to her today. He thinks that her cashing it, along with the signed dissolution agreement and her moving out, will become a pretty strong de-facto contract.

I have already cancelled joint credit cards.

My lawyer seemed pretty excited by this odd turn of events. 

I still feel empty. This is not what I expected.

I ran the best run of my life yesterday and was barely tired afterward. My world makes no sense right now.

Thank you all for being here for me. I can't thank you enough.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Donesies,
In addition to reflecting--not ruminating--on your lost marriage, it is also very important to allow yourself the gift of time to process the loss. The death of a marriage is tragic, and you were blindsided. Again, very sorry you are going through this. It is a large open wound that will take time to heal.

Many have suggested counseling. That can help. If you have a good support network of family and friends now is the time to lean on them. I took solace in my faith when I was going through this. The fact that you are runner is terrific. Excercise is fantastic medicine. Your feet striking at the pavement is a great release of aggression. Each step is striking back at your wife and her affair. A healthy therapeutic activity. And, of course, the endorphin rush offers serenity that is much needed at this time of anger, despondency, and resentment. Find things to do that are a positive force in your life and surround yourself with people who care for you. This will enable you to recognize the love that exists in your life as opposed to your wife's betrayal.

I would allow yourself to process your grief and sort things out before dating again. Let this marriage come to its conclusion and heal from it before rebounding. Reintegrate yourself. 

This too shall pass. There is much joy and happiness ahead if you follow the right path.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> I spoke to my attorney this morning. He is going to come by and pick up the signed paperwork to file today.
> 
> He recommended that I cut a check for the value of the assets and first month of alimony (per the agreement) and give it to her today. He thinks that her cashing it, along with the signed dissolution agreement and her moving out, will become a pretty strong de-facto contract.
> 
> I have already cancelled joint credit cards.
> 
> My lawyer seemed pretty excited by this odd turn of events.
> 
> I still feel empty. This is not what I expected.
> 
> I ran the best run of my life yesterday and was barely tired afterward. My world makes no sense right now.
> 
> Thank you all for being here for me. I can't thank you enough.



Sir, you will survive this. We all here can assure you of that. And yes, I agree 100% with the lawyer. If your stbxw cashes the check it is accepting the terms as written. 

At this juncture you are in control of it all. Nice work.


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> I don't have any idea why she's gone nuclear like this. She went to stay with her brother.


You just blew up her fantasy and now she's dealing with such strong emotions that she can't think logically. From her point of view she has to deal with the shame/embarrassment of being an adulteress (scarlet letter type of stuff), losing her husband, losing her financial security, losing her social status as a Dr's wife, and probably will soon be losing her boyfriend. Her world is never going to be the same and she knows it. Many women are emotional thinkers instead of logical thinkers, so what they feel AT THE MOMENT directly effects how they view their situation. Because of that her feeling/view about the situation can change on a dime because her emotions have changed that rapidly. That's why she's going nuclear. It's also why she signed the D papers right away and is agreeing to favorable terms. This is the key reason we suggest a BS files for D and gets out ASAP. If you were to wait until she was emotionally stable and thinking logically again, she'd take you for every dime she could and the D would be a long bitter battle.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Hard to accept that everything that you've known and loved has evaporated in 1 week. People are referencing being in this state for months. I'm trying.


All you did was bring a speedy end to what she had planned for a long, long time. She left the marriage a long time ago. Yes maybe some of the blame for that demise is on your shoulders...but that is an argument for another day. 

What it comes down to is that she had all the opportunity in the world to let you know of her dissatisfaction with the marriage and she did not. People like her are cowards. She lacks the coping skills to be in a committed relationship. You don't just blow up a marriage because you are unhappy. You state your case and make your complaints and demand that your spouse work with you on the problems. If the spouse ignores you or fails to work with you, then you move to the next phase of the plan and you see a lawyer and work towards an amicable breakup. 

Instead she goes and has an affair. Then you conveniently do all the hard work for her and file. Now she can tell everyone that you ended the marriage...not her. She gets what she wants in the end and you look like the bad guy. 

This is usually the way people like her operate.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear Donesies,

I know the heartache and pain that is deep within your soul. The wife you have a loved for so long is gone and betrayed all that you represent. I know this because I’ve been where you are now. It was very hard for me when my wife left, and my mind entertains every possible thought. I cried and mourned for days until I found the strength to call for help. I contacted my closest friends and relatives and shared all that has transpired. I cried on my older brothers’ shoulders and also their wives. I contacted my two close friends I had known since childhood and also shared with them. They have given me some profound guidance with substance. I called a therapist and a counselor and gained a tremendous amount of help from them. One of my friends said to me, get out of the house and do the things you always wanted to do and I did. After a few months, I began to change for the better. I began to enjoy life again. I joined a local Separation and Divorce group and attended their activities. I started exercising, running and I lost 40lbs. Many women started asking me on dates which I decline because I needed healing. After six months, my wife contacted me and wanted to talk about our issues. She said to me, “You Look Good,” and I said, “I feel great”! She said to me, “You don’t seem to miss me.” I said I could live life with or without you because I have adjusted to single life and enjoying it”. 

You will find out that this is a process and a pilgrimage. You will make it, just take one day at a time.

P.S. Get the locks changed ASAP.

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I believe that she's too ashamed to face you and own up to what she did. She just ran away because she really knew she had nothing to say in her defense. She's trying to justify her behavior by convincing herself that she's angry with you for reading her journal. It's just how cowards deal with a crisis like this. She'll eventually get over this, but the problem is that while this lasts, she's just digging her hole deeper, making it more difficult to climb out of when she comes back asking for reconciliation in a few weeks or months. At this point, she's actually foolishly hoping that you'll call her back with an apology and she'll be able to air all her grievances to you that "caused" her to have an affair. 

Do exactly as your attorney instructs. There is nothing final or symbolic about writing a check now. This is just money that she would have ultimately spent had you stayed married. Just keep doing what is in your own interests, knowing that she'll have a lot of pieces to pick up later if she wants you back.


----------



## dubsey

One of the follwoing things happened, and it'll be a bit before you know which one...

1. She planned to leave, and since you found out, it was easy for her to pack up and go and she'll truly feel no remorse about what happened.

2. She had no idea you knew, just planned to keep on keeping on, but you have photos of her journal, so she can't even go and lie about what happened, so she's cowered away to go hide in a corner hoping that by signing and agreeing, you won't blow up her entire world and allow her to stretch the truth or lie by omission to save face.

3. She wants you to come get her and beg her to come back so she keeps power.


----------



## BigDigg

drifting on said:


> I work with physicians at my part time job, I’ve seen them go through divorce with a spouse. The part I want to tell you is that each physician who’s wife cheated, the wife had tons of regret. Not in a monetarily way, but in a way of the person they lost. Our ER physicians are contracted through the hospital I work for, shorter hours but an amazing income. So some of these wives had it really good, a good man and not much of a financial issue. But each one thought they had found something better, something that loved them more, something they connected to in ways they couldn’t imagine. That’s part of never never land, it clouds the mind from reality in a steep way.


I find that there is an odd over fascination about doctors and their careers. There are a million TV shows/movies based on it. If an author/director wants to establish a character as someone of intelligence, status and morals they will probably be a doctor. It's odd to me because in many (most?) medical fields it's not particularly exciting work on the day-to-day. Most people have spent some time around them or in hospitals so there isn't a huge mystery. Of course being a doctor is an accomplishment but there are other professions just as interesting, just as competitive that pay well too. Maybe it's the inherent aspect of helping people, though i know more than a few doctors that were type-A who really don't seem to care about that.

That said people clearly do put this particular profession on a pedestal - anyone who's ever had a friend or family member go through medical school, residency, fellowships, knows all about it and every little detail. Especially in the first few years post college it's just a constant 'thing' that seems to dominate all topics conversations one way or another. Of course being married to a doctor means that they hang around other doctors which tends to amplify this. I imagine that this can breed a sense of self-importance and self-indulgence in a person if they let their career completely define them. 

I can also imagine that being the spouse could be a tough thing too, especially if you aren't just in it for the money and financial security. To be constantly in the background, to put your needs second, to lose the balance of power or importance, to being made a stepford wife...if your husband isn't paying attention to you, making time for you, meeting your needs it's easy to see that resentment could build.

BTW - i am in no way saying this relates to the good Doc here. Just saying it's not surprising to me that some doctor wives might be secretly unhappy in what would appear to be an otherwise favorable situation.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies,I know this is difficult, and her actions speak much louder than words. She was caught, and she accepted it and moved on rapidly. That says to me that the commitment to you just was not there. Do not beat yourself up, this was not on you. She is the one missing pieces of her soul. Doing what she did, shows massive disrespect, along with a lack of morals and ethics. You are getting away cheap. Within weeks, you will feel the weight lifted , then I encourage you to date. You are self described as successful and easy on the female eyes, therefore, she will become a distant memory in short order. I know that you had visions of a future, growing old and having kids, but she was not the candidate for that life, and this would have been worse had she waited a decade or two. This hurts now, but rest assured, like pain after surgery, it dissipates, and you are much better off afterwards.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> I don't have any idea why she's gone nuclear like this. She went to stay with her brother.


She thinks you will chase after her.

She thinks you are bluffing.

and she has doubled down on it.


----------



## Primrose

donesies said:


> I still feel empty. This is not what I expected.


It's because you love her. Real, honest, fierce love- that doesn't just disappear in a week. It's absolutely to be expected that your heart is crushed and you need to allow yourself to mourn the loss of your marriage so that your grief does not manifest in unhealthy habits in the future (excessive drinking, anger outburts, binge or insufficient eating, etc). 

When my ex-husband walked away for another woman, it was the single most devastating moment of my life. For nearly a year I still longed for him and hoped that he would have a change of heart before our divorce was finalized. All of my family and friends stuck by my side but they kept questioning why I would want him back. What they didn't understand was that I missed the man he used to be. I missed our family life together. I hated that our youngest would never know him as a 24/7 father as our older two did. I longed for the man he once was. But what I had to accept was that that man was no more. He made a decision that irrevocably changed himself and I knew that there was no going back. 

We are 3 years post divorce now and I can honestly say I'm so glad that he never came back begging for another chance during that year when I was most vulnerable (but he did try after I entered a new relationship). I have since found a man who has helped to put back the pieces of that once shattered heart and show me a love that I never believed I would find again. 

I'm writing you this to give you hope. I know it seems impossible to get through this, but I can assure you that, a year from now, you will be so glad you took these steps. I think that's why a lot of us posters still remain here; to give newcomers hope that a new happiness is almost a guarantee if you will just take that risk and walk through the dark for a while.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I spoke to my attorney this morning. He is going to come by and pick up the signed paperwork to file today.
> 
> He recommended that I cut a check for the value of the assets and first month of alimony (per the agreement) and give it to her today. He thinks that her cashing it, along with the signed dissolution agreement and her moving out, will become a pretty strong de-facto contract.
> 
> I have already cancelled joint credit cards.
> 
> My lawyer seemed pretty excited by this odd turn of events.
> 
> I still feel empty. This is not what I expected.
> 
> I ran the best run of my life yesterday and was barely tired afterward. My world makes no sense right now.
> 
> Thank you all for being here for me. I can't thank you enough.


We know this is hard. Her behavior leaves me speechless. That being said follow your attorney's advice quickly. FEDEX checks to her ASAP so she deposits and gets money. Much much harder for her to reverse after.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I assume people who post here want to reconcile, even when they say they don't. How hard is it to divorce? Just pay the attorney and follow the attorney's advice.

As far as your wife's reaction, she was in love with another man. Whether it's real or not, will work out or not, if he's better than you or not, makes no difference. 

As far as him being a loser, comparing to you, consider that we all get to decide what is important to us. There are guys who are more attractive, nicer, wealthier, etc, etc, etc, but we stay married and don't cheat because we love our spouse or feel obligated to our vows and promises, or have character not to lie and deceive over important issues. 

Your wife chose him or she realized she doesn't want you or she is too proud to say "I'm wrong I'm sorry." 

I have read hundreds of cheater's stories who said they thought they were in love but realized later they made a terrible decision and wanted their spouse back. People fall in and out of love all the time, people make terrible decisions every day.

I believe her diary entries as her true feelings at the time she wrote them. That wasn't that long ago. 

It seems sudden to you but who knows how long it's been for her, including even just mentally before acting out on it.


----------



## Noble1

Sorry to hear about your situation; however, I am glad to see it is going to 'work out' for you.

It may not seem like it but you are getting the chance for a do over without it costing you much in the lifetime view of things.

I am sure that both you and 'her' will have some after thoughts and such, but hopefully your lawyer has things filed already.

While it seems like you have most things right where you want them, take some time to rediscover yourself and how you plan to move forward.

Good luck.


----------



## wilson

I'm sure part of your heart wants to R, and will feel that way for some time. But keep in mind that the reason she had an affair is because she has an emotional defect. This particular guy did not create that defect--it was already there and was open to him. That defect will continue to exist in her. Obviously, she will interact with other men in the future. You would need to be snooping forever to ensure she doesn't fall back into old patterns.

Also if you take her back, she doesn't learn the painful lesson of having an affair. By losing everything, she gains negative reinforcement which may help her avoid cheating in the future. If you take her back, she gets positive reinforcement that she can screw whoever she wants and it'll all work out in the end.


----------



## re16

Done,

Her ability to vacate the relationship and move on so swiftly shows she doesn't have much remorse or guilt. Your current pain is because you actually cared about who you thought she was.

Did she ever even say she's sorry?

Prerequisites to BS offering gift of reconciliation:
1. Remorse by WS
2. Full disclosure of affair by WS (if you don't get this info it will eat you for eternity, you'll wake up thinking about it years later, it doesn't go away)
3. No contact with AP.
4. Proof in WS actions, not words, that they are focused on BS healing and taking permanent accountability for what they did.

She is doing zero of these.

Your pain will pass in time. It is a healthy response to what you've been through with this woman.

I would lay low until all the paperwork goes through. This all seems too good to be true right now.

-RE


----------



## donesies

dreamer2017 said:


> Dear Donesies,
> 
> I know the heartache and pain that is deep within your soul. The wife you have a loved for so long is gone and betrayed all that you represent. I know this because I’ve been where you are now. It was very hard for me when my wife left, and my mind entertains every possible thought. I cried and mourned for days until I found the strength to call for help. I contacted my closest friends and relatives and shared all that has transpired. I cried on my older brothers’ shoulders and also their wives. I contacted my two close friends I had known since childhood and also shared with them. They have given me some profound guidance with substance. I called a therapist and a counselor and gained a tremendous amount of help from them. One of my friends said to me, get out of the house and do the things you always wanted to do and I did. After a few months, I began to change for the better. I began to enjoy life again. I joined a local Separation and Divorce group and attended their activities. I started exercising, running and I lost 40lbs. Many women started asking me on dates which I decline because I needed healing. After six months, my wife contacted me and wanted to talk about our issues. She said to me, “You Look Good,” and I said, “I feel great”! She said to me, “You don’t seem to miss me.” I said I could live life with or without you because I have adjusted to single life and enjoying it”.
> 
> You will find out that this is a process and a pilgrimage. You will make it, just take one day at a time.
> 
> P.S. Get the locks changed ASAP.
> 
> Best,
> Dreamer


Did you R?


----------



## re16

These threads have a mantra of fastest way to win them back is to let them go if R is actually desired.

Done has done the fastest let go TAM has ever seen.

Does anyone think that she will show up begging for R? I think it is coming. It might take a few weeks, maybe a little more before she realizes that her life is going to be severely changed.


----------



## dubsey

re16 said:


> Does anyone think that she will show up begging for R? I think it is coming. It might take a few weeks, maybe a little more before she realizes that her life is going to be severely changed.


Yes, unless it was truly an exit affair.

And if she comes back, I still think he should get divorced. That doesn't mean that they can't get back together, but I would make sure that everything gets split, legally.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

re16 said:


> These threads have a mantra of fastest way to win them back is to let them go if R is actually desired.
> 
> 
> 
> Done has done the fastest let go TAM has ever seen.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone think that she will show up begging for R? I think it is coming. It might take a few weeks, maybe a little more before she realizes that her life is going to be severely changed.




Tears husband left immediately and she became a wreck. Eventually reconciled after he spread it around for a while. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## M042

Done-- have you been watching Corey Wayne videos on youtube?


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Did you R?


donesies why would you want her back? 

She cheated on you, and then when you confronted her she rubbed it in your face and reacted with defiance.

Is this really the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? Is this the kind of woman you want being a mother to your kids? A moron?


----------



## colingrant

If you want to see ugliness, watch the actions of a weak person seeking to minimize their shame and preserve a core bereft of integrity. Pitiful desperation. Best thing to do is to not throw them a life line, until you see humility.


----------



## WasDecimated

I’m sorry, I went through the same thing 5 years ago. 

I was married to XWW for 16 years. We have 3 kids. I thought we had a great marriage and a wonderful family. Then I found out my XWW was cheating with an old high school deadbeat friend. I was destroyed. I made the mistake of trying to work it out and R with her. What a mistake. I foolishly stayed with her for over a year, thinking we were in R, until I found out she was still seeing this clown. I finally filed for divorce and moved on. Like you, I was loving, successful, intelligent and in great shape. It didn’t matter. She was using me for a lifestyle, money and the free time to run around. 

That’s just who she is, and she isn't going to change.

You have only been married for 7 years and have no kids. Divorce her now and don’t look back! 

The longer you wait, the more expensive and painful it will be. It will hurt for a while but you will not regret divorcing her. It was 5 years ago for me. My kids live with me full time I now only have 2 months of alimony left to pay her. The only regret I have is that I didn’t divorce her instantly. Women who fall in luuuve with someone else, almost never fall back in love with their husbands. Look at the reconciliation stats. It’s Hell on earth. Your marriage would have never been the same. You could never trust her again. Think about it, do you want to live the rest of your life wondering where she is and what she is doing or with who? Of course not.

You are a Doctor. DNR this marriage. Don't waste your time and emotional energy trying to save something that can't be saved.

Good luck to you. You deserve better


----------



## donesies

M042 said:


> Done-- have you been watching Corey Wayne videos on youtube?


No. Should I?


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Hard to accept that everything that you've known and loved has evaporated in 1 week. People are referencing being in this state for months. I'm trying.


Donesies remember what she said about the marriage, it has been dead for years. She has no more feelings for you, they have been gone for a while. 

This is all new to you, what you have gone through in a week and has turned your world upside down. She feels nothing but anger for being found out. 

You have to go through the grieving process and all the other stages of loss. IC will help a lot so will family and friends. You will be better off in the end even if you can’t see it right now.


----------



## ABHale

re16 said:


> These threads have a mantra of fastest way to win them back is to let them go if R is actually desired.
> 
> Done has done the fastest let go TAM has ever seen.
> 
> Does anyone think that she will show up begging for R? I think it is coming. It might take a few weeks, maybe a little more before she realizes that her life is going to be severely changed.


I think his wife has a lot to do with this. She basically gave donesies the middle finger and moved out. Not the typical reaction that we have seen. She never even tried for R or said can we work this out. She just left.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

What is rather typical of her behavior is spiting him for catching her and calling her out on her absolute hypocrisy.


----------



## donesies

ABHale said:


> I think his wife has a lot to do with this. She basically gave donesies the middle finger and moved out. Not the typical reaction that we have seen. She never even tried for R or said can we work this out. She just left.


My wife is a unique creature. I don't think anyone can predict her next move. I will drive myself crazy trying.


----------



## re16

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> What is rather typical of her behavior is spiting him for catching her and calling her out on her absolute hypocrisy.


Yes. She is killing 2 marriages but she's questioning OP's integrity for reading pieces of paper left in plain site in their shared home. Seems reasonable.


----------



## donesies

re16 said:


> Yes. She is killing 2 marriages but she's questioning OP's integrity for reading pieces of paper left in plain site in their shared home. Seems reasonable.


Breaks it down nicely


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Typical cheater logic. The 4th Amendment in the Cheater's Constitution states they have a right to absolute privacy so they can play unhindered from their spouses prying eyes and knowledge of said play. This fantasy amendment trumps all other contracts, promises, ethics, mores, norms and morals of all human marriage contracts of the last 100,000 years.


----------



## Malaise

donesies said:


> My wife is a unique creature. I don't think anyone can predict her next move. I will drive myself crazy trying.


No, she's a commonplace cheat.

Don't forget that.


----------



## lucy999

Malaise said:


> No, she's a commonplace cheat.
> 
> Don't forget that.


 Could not agree more. Her blatant and laughable hypocrisy, her response to his discovery of the A- it is all typical cheater speak. She is not special. She's your run of the mill cheater.


----------



## dreamer2017

Dear Donesies,

Yes, we R.

After one year, my wife and started our reconciliation. This was after months of couples counseling and new agreeable boundaries. There was one significant addition to our relationship; I had no problem in living alone and willing to walk away if necessary. 

Things are much better, and I’m hoping for the best. Keep your head up, because better days are ahead of you. Let me know if I can help.

Best,
Dreamer


----------



## donesies

Signed papers were filed and checks were delivered to her. We'll see if she cashes them.


----------



## GusPolinski

dreamer2017 said:


> Dear Donesies,
> 
> Yes, we R.
> 
> After one year, my wife and started our reconciliation. This was after months of couples counseling and new agreeable boundaries. There was one significant addition to our relationship; I had no problem in living alone and willing to walk away if necessary.
> 
> Things are much better, and I’m hoping for the best. Keep your head up, because better days are ahead of you. Let me know if I can help.
> 
> Best,
> Dreamer


You should start your own thread.


----------



## re16

Well done you've done in 8 days what takes some years.

I know it is tough, but stick with it.

Has there been apology at all for her behavior yet?


----------



## manwithnoname

@donesies Dude, I don't know you at all but I am proud of you.

Well done. Well donesies.


----------



## donesies

re16 said:


> Well done you've done in 8 days what takes some years.
> 
> I know it is tough, but stick with it.
> 
> Has there been apology at all for her behavior yet?


No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


----------



## Rick Blaine

You did great, and it appears you also have a very good attorney. For other betrayed men reading this thread, you can learn a thing or two here about decisive action. 

If goes as planned you should write book and entitle it, "The Art of the Las Vegas Divorce."


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


That is ****ing INSANE.

I guess secrecy is more sacred than infidelity.

Well... to a (potentially serial) cheater, anyway.


----------



## 3putt

GusPolinski said:


> That is ****ing INSANE.
> 
> I guess secrecy is more sacred than infidelity.
> 
> Well... to a (potentially serial) cheater, anyway.


This really is highly unusual. I don't know what to make of it, as I've run though many possibilities in my mind but none of them make even close to perfect sense.

Awfully weird.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies

1. Everything goes through the attorney. All contact.

2. You are grieving, she is not. You let her see this and you give her control.

3. People almost always affair down. Do you think she was looking to find a rich, accomplished, attractive, athletic man to complete her? She had that at home. She was looking for something to validate herself. The club, the attention, the side piece, these were completing her. Sad. She was willing to destroy two families including three children for ego kibbles. Think about that. 

4. Right now you are crying. The strongest do that. It is part of healing. But do not reach out to her. That will be salt in the wound. 

5. Anger will soon replace grief. The sooner the better. Right now they are on a high. Karma is a female dog and they are going to get bit really hard. Count on it. 

6. Strength to you. You have a life with love and family ahead of you. She will not. Ever. You have your destiny. She has hers. The worst part for her is that she CHOSE this.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


Don't blink. She's waiting for you to do so. Can't disregard her fathers's influence. You mentioned this before. He's probably coaching her.


----------



## Keke24

donesies said:


> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


Damnnn, the egomania is strong in this one. She must believe she's being a real tough ***** for walking out on you without looking back, hoping to shock you into crumbling. I think she's desperately hoping you will reach out and tell her you made a mistake and beg and plead. She probably believes asking for forgiveness, apologizing, taking responsibility is beneath her.


----------



## 3putt

colingrant said:


> Don't blink. She's waiting for you to do so. Can't disregard her fathers's influence. You mentioned this before. He's probably coaching her.


Yep, but donesies has an advantage there. He has the ace up his sleeve; the proof. And I seriously doubt shark daddy knows about that yet, and I don't think she wants him to find out.

Could that explain why she signed so fast? That it's more about daddy finding out than losing what she had?


----------



## Malaise

3putt said:


> Yep, but donesies has an advantage there. He has the ace up his sleeve; the proof. And I seriously doubt shark daddy knows about that yet, and I don't think she wants him to find out.
> 
> Could that explain why she signed so fast? That it's more about daddy finding out than losing what she had?


If that is indeed the case I would send Daddy copies of the journal pages.


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


This is an exceptional situation.

I wonder if there is more to it, like what she was doing that wasn't written in the journal. Maybe she is trying to move forward quickly before Done finds out the true extent of what she's been up to.

This is perhaps uncharted territory for TAM.

Do you have mutual friends that you've told? It seems like she must be talking to somebody. How did you find out she was at her brother's place?


----------



## 3putt

Malaise said:


> If that is indeed the case I would send Daddy copies of the journal pages.


Agreed, but only after he's assured that everything is settled legally. No need to rock the boat at the moment.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Orrr...she already had plans to split and he fast-tracked it for her. She packed AMAZINGLY fast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> My wife is a unique creature. I don't think anyone can predict her next move. I will drive myself crazy trying.


Nope, just a typical cheater. Get some IC and work on your codependency


----------



## 3putt

Elizabeth001 said:


> Orrr...she already had plans to split and he fast-tracked it for her. She packed AMAZINGLY fast.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, I think we've already come to a consensus on that, but never came to one on signing so quickly. That's the fly in the ointment. Just so outside of what we normally see here.


----------



## Tobyboy

Or..........she’s pregnant. Who the f knows.


----------



## ABHale

Marc878 said:


> Nope, just a typical cheater. Get some IC and work on your codependency


He is not referring to her cheating.


----------



## colingrant

...or she's right here on TAM, hence explains her counterintuitive reactions. Unlikely, but with D-Day being Valentines Day and donesies identifying himself as a physician or related field, it's not hard to match this thread to another's experience. Unlikely, but this is the internet.


----------



## VladDracul

colingrant said:


> Don't blink. She's waiting for you to do so. Can't disregard her fathers's influence. You mentioned this before. He's probably coaching her.


Ain't no probably to it. If you had a daddy who was a lawyer, you'd partake of his guidance. Remember, if your attack is going to well, you're probably walking into an ambush. I'm surprised Donesies attorney hasn't warned him.


----------



## TeddieG

farsidejunky said:


> Is that @TeddieG?
> 
> End T/J.


Hey Junky. Good to see you're a moderator now. Yes, I'm back. Took a break after the Dallas police shooting by an Iraqi veteran. Veterans losing their minds was too close to home (I inadvertantly typed "him" at first). 

End T/J.


----------



## donesies

re16 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.
> 
> 
> 
> This is an exceptional situation.
> 
> I wonder if there is more to it, like what she was doing that wasn't written in the journal. Maybe she is trying to move forward quickly before Done finds out the true extent of what she's been up to.
> 
> This is perhaps uncharted territory for TAM.
> 
> Do you have mutual friends that you've told? It seems like she must be talking to somebody. How did you find out she was at her brother's place?
Click to expand...

Her brother told me


----------



## donesies

Elizabeth001 said:


> Orrr...she already had plans to split and he fast-tracked it for her. She packed AMAZINGLY fast.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not everything is gone


----------



## TeddieG

Txquail said:


> Send her father her journal photos. Its hard to defend someone you know is in tbe wrong


Maybe. A truly dysfunctional family of origin (FOO) like my ex's can't be convinced by evidence. I don't know how far you live from her fam but I lived 1200 miles from his and it took something like 4 years for the entire family to get the truth. Some were in denial, because they hated the ***** and hoped against hope he'd pick me. And the others just would line up behind his narcissistic ass and say that if he said the moon was made of cream cheese they'd show up with a bagel and a spreader.


----------



## TeddieG

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies, don't blame yourself for any of this. Including not seeing it coming. Your back was turned to someone you trusted implicitly. She used that trust to betray you. It was her choice to betray by stabbing you in the back rather then tell you she had problems with the marriage. Period. End of story.
> 
> *As a matter of fact she did not actually have any marriage problems UNTIL she cheated.* Convenient little justification we see here over and over on TAM, always after the fact.
> 
> As for people who say you must be guilty of something well yes, yes you are. Indeed, you are guilty of trusting her. You are guilty of that.


This.


----------



## TeddieG

donesies said:


> Well guys. Hope you are sitting down.
> 
> I came home (early) to an empty house. She has cleared out all of her clothes and toiletries and even most of her studio (where she teaches music out of the home). Most of the pictures have been taken down.
> 
> Signed divorce papers are on the counter. She just signed the low-ball offer that I put out without question. No note. No attempts to contact me today.
> 
> This is not unfolding the way I expected...


Give it time. Either way, she may come crawling back and you're in a position to say what reconciliation will require, or she won't, and you'll be okay.


----------



## TeddieG

sandcastle said:


> TAM hero-
> 
> A mere week ago , filed and signed.
> 
> Awesome .


Could this actually become as epic as Shamwow?


----------



## TeddieG

Marc878 said:


> You are still in love with who you thought she was. That person is not who she is.
> 
> Better wake up to the hard truth. And take her down of the pedestal you have her on.


For a long long long time after everything that went down, I kept questioning myself about what happened, and which of the twins (my exh IS a Gemini) he was: the wonderful, smart, funny, wonderful, self-assured guy he was for the first 12 years of our relationship, or the narcissistic bi polar ******* he was for the last eight of it. I always wondered if he snookered me for 12 years, if the real him came out in that last 8 . . . 

And the other night I was watching a wonderful show on Starz (Counterpart) and one of the characters said, people fall in love with us and stay in love with us as long as they believe we are who we want to be. 

Maybe your ex just got tired of being who she wanted to be and just gave in and surrendered to who she really is.


----------



## ABHale

I am sure donesies is not feeling like a hero at the present time.


----------



## TeddieG

MJJEAN said:


> Let me esplain.
> 
> I can't tell you all how many men and women I have known over the years who cheated with someone objectively less appealing than their spouse. All had the same answer when asked why they "affair'd down". It's attraction. Raw physical attraction. It has nothing to do with appearance, nothing to do with bank balance, or accomplishments, or education, or even personality and everything to do with chemical compatibility. In other words, he made her wet. That simple.


I love me some MJJEAN, and always wondered why people affaired down, and then read something recently . . . people affair down from their partner, but with their perceived equal as a human being.


----------



## TeddieG

donesies said:


> I suspect you are correct. It was long about me and she seemed to like it that way, but I didn’t. I sought ways to give her her space, time, and freedom by allowing her to work part time and have essentially unlimited funds. I guess that wasn’t what she needed.


The first thing my MIL said to me when she found out h was cheating was, well, you're working on an advanced degree, do you think that you made my son feel inferior? His OW was a ******* punk POS who never finished high school, while I was just shy of a PhD. So I said, of course, Mom, your son's inferiority complex comes from me. My bad. All my fault.


----------



## donesies

ABHale said:


> I am sure donesies is not feeling like a hero at the present time.


Correct. I’m so confused and hurting.


----------



## blahfridge

donesies said:


> ABHale said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure donesies is not feeling like a hero at the present time.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. I’m so confused and hurting.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you are. Putting those feelings down in writing can be therapeutic. Write her a letter where you say everything you want to say, then tear it up or put it away in a drawer. Start a journal where you can chart your feelings as you move through this horrible process. The therapist will help too, of course.


----------



## lucy999

donesies said:


> Correct. I’m so confused and hurting.


Your counselor today will hopefully help with this. 

Day by day.


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## eric1

Don -

We are here to support you. You are gong through something incredibly horrible. There are no two ways around it. The good news is that your path is well-trodden. You’re taking steps now that will serve you incredibly well when it’s time to stop feeling like this.

You’re incredibly confused because you should be. It’s said that to try to understand crazy you need to be crazy yourself. Your wife is now crazy. She’s built up a wall of lies so large there is quite literally nothing holding them up. 

You will never understand why she’s doing some of these things but you’ll stop caring.

What you do need now is control. Own the situation as much as it sucks. It will stop that room spinning feeling. Tell friends and family. Build in-life support.

For her to act suddenly means to me she is acting atypical. My guy who be that she has something else to hide. The good news for you is that you can choose to not care about it (or if you do we can help you there as well)


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


Yeah how DARE you!!



She's more upset about you reading her inner thoughts than destroying the marriage itself.


----------



## bandit.45

She won’t come crawling back. Not this one.


----------



## BigDigg

Bandit - tend to agree. Two possibilities i see:

1) Less likely - she really does want to stay in the marriage but is attempting to reset and redefine the power balance on her terms. Perhaps she feels she's been reduced in the marriage with all focus on her husband and his career and making her husband pay attention to her and play the pick-me game is what's needed. Some extreme brinkmanship to quickly sign and move like this but if she's really fed up in a take-it-or-leave-it kinda of way...

2) More likely - she really has decided long ago that the marriage was dead, the affair was of the exit variety and this was a convenient opportunity to do something she's been wanting to do anyhow but didn't have the courage.


----------



## manwithnoname

bandit.45 said:


> She won’t come crawling back. Not this one.


Agree.

She will gain financially (immensely) and be out of a marriage she was not happy in. And she didn't have to be the one to pull the plug.


----------



## Rick Blaine

manwithnoname said:


> Agree.
> 
> She will gain financially (immensely) and be out of a marriage she was not happy in. And she didn't have to be the one to pull the plug.


And yet pull she did.


----------



## Chaparral

For me, the first week was like an out of body experience. It snan altered state I had never been in before and never since. None of it made sense. By two weeks after that though, I was hurting but also angry. Talked to her on the phone and had already decided the future wedding and life with her was over. 

When she figured out we would never see each other again her world veiw crashed. Then she came running back. My mistake was taking her back. That kind of damage can’t be fixed. Two more years wasted.

I later learned she could not have children. We have had two wonderful children. Move on and have children of your own. One of the things in life that can’t be explained to someone else is the joy and love of one’s children.

Something is missing in your wife. Neither you or anyone else can fix that. This terrible betrayal she has laid on you has hit home to her. Her actions reek of guilt. She simply can’t face you.


----------



## bandit.45

I see her going dead silent. Her dad is coaching her to keep her mouth shut.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> Correct. I’m so confused and hurting.


I understand completely. One just stands there thinking, "WTF?" How could a person do such a thing to another? And yet they do. Can't fathom how another could become so cold and uncaring. Yet they are. It makes one step back and reassess the human nature in all it's goodness and the evil that potentially lurks underneath. Time. Time is your friend in wrapping your head around it and find peace.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> No a word from her at all in fact. Not an email, text, or anything else. Last thing she said was how mad she was about the journal and then stormed out.


Understand that things hidden and lies told will eventually come to light. It may be found in seconds or many years down the road. There are many threads here were the betrayed found evidence from years ago containing their spouse infidelity. Whether you read the journal or not....this would come to light eventually via some other means. It just how it goes with these things. Pages upon pages here and other sites will show you that. Pages upon pages of those that have cheating asking if they should let the cat out of the bag. The answer is always yes because it will come to light sooner or later. 

Keep your resolve with this! In the very near future you will have a feeling of relief. You got this.


----------



## M042

donesies said:


> No. Should I?


It would not hurt. Definitely give you an objective idea of what and who you are dealing with. He is a life coach and uses that quote about consequences pretty often. Has thousands of videos on youtube.


----------



## Malaise

If she's signed the papers, and the papers are filed, does he really need to talk to her?

Let her just fade away and let him forget her.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> She won’t come crawling back. Not this one.


I am pretty much sure of that


----------



## donesies

manwithnoname said:


> bandit.45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She won’t come crawling back. Not this one.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree.
> 
> She will gain financially (immensely) and be out of a marriage she was not happy in. And she didn't have to be the one to pull the plug.
Click to expand...

How is she gaining financially and immensely?


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> How is she gaining financially and immensely?


In some situations the XW gets alimony, living with OM and working themselves. Three incomes.


----------



## donesies

Yeswecan said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> How is she gaining financially and immensely?
> 
> 
> 
> In some situations the XW gets alimony, living with OM and working themselves. Three incomes.
Click to expand...

I’m confused. She signed a lowball offer. Clearly money is not what this is about


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies, How are you holding up today?


----------



## jlg07

donesies said:


> Her brother told me


Did you tell her brother why you are divorcing her? Did SHE tell him?
Did he talk to you at all about it?


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> I’m confused. She signed a lowball offer. Clearly money is not what this is about


I agree. But you asked how she was gaining financially. Yes, she signed a lowball offer. However, that is income #1. She will find OM who will be employed. Income #2. She will more that likely get a job. Income #3. Financially the money is coming in 3 ways.


----------



## Yeswecan

jlg07 said:


> Did you tell her brother why you are divorcing her? Did SHE tell him?
> Did he talk to you at all about it?


Good question. You want BIL to know the facts. STBXW well probably rewrite the marital history.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

This is not about money or what she stands to gain. People are overestimating her level of deviousness and sophistication.

This is about a teenage girl who is childishly infatuated with a man who paid her some compliments to get into her pants. Then the teenage girl got caught by her parents who humiliated her by bringing it into the open. In her shame, instead of courageously stepping forward to admit her wrongdoing, she doubled down, pretending that it was her parents that were the problem and not her. She enthusiastically signed off on the agreement that punished her to thumb her nose at them. They punished her, now she was going to punish them back. She ran away from home so that they would realize the error of their ways and come begging for her to return. 

In the next couple weeks, she might grow up a little. Especially when she discovers that the love of her life has no intention of leaving his wife and 3 kids. If she comes back, donsies has to decide if he's really just "plan B" or if there is enough to work from for reconciliation. Given her behavior so far, I'd say no.


----------



## lucy999

I hope you guys are right that she won't come back. I seem to think she will. I really do hope I am wrong. Because that is less temptation for @donesies to take her back.


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> I spoke to my attorney this morning. He is going to come by and pick up the signed paperwork to file today.
> 
> He recommended that I cut a check for the value of the assets and first month of alimony (per the agreement) and give it to her today. He thinks that her cashing it, along with the signed dissolution agreement and her moving out, will become a pretty strong de-facto contract.
> 
> *I have already cancelled joint credit cards.*
> 
> My lawyer seemed pretty excited by this odd turn of events.
> 
> I still feel empty. This is not what I expected.
> 
> I ran the best run of my life yesterday and was barely tired afterward. My world makes no sense right now.
> 
> Thank you all for being here for me. I can't thank you enough.


Don't forget to change the beneficiary on any life insurance policies and change your will if you have one.

You will feel confused and empty for some time to come. You are grieving and have to work through the stages. You are at the denial and confused stage, thinking that you should be able to explain and understand what she has done and how she could do it to you with so little empathy. With your morals and honor, you will never understand. Your wife is not familiar with those characteristics and has neither in herself. She is totally selfish and self serving.

Hang on. Anger and acceptance is coming. YOU will survive and feels better without her.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies, How are you holding up today?


This morning was a bit odd. 

I had to go over to the house where she has supposedly been staying to pick up my soon to be ex nephew. I had promised several weeks ago to take him for an outing this morning. I did, but it was weird to go over there. She was not there by the way. Her brother said that she left early that morning, probably because she knew I was coming over. 

I did get an email from her about splitting the remainder of the household items. She did take the checks, but nothing has been cashed yet.


----------



## donesies

jlg07 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Her brother told me
> 
> 
> 
> Did you tell her brother why you are divorcing her? Did SHE tell him?
> Did he talk to you at all about it?
Click to expand...

Yes. I told her brother (a few days ago) all about the discovery of the journal and her affair with this married man. He actually knew who the guy was and was like: “Seriously??? That guy??”


----------



## VladDracul

BigDigg said:


> Bandit - tend to agree. Two possibilities i see:


I'm going to go with what's behind door 2. If she comes back, my take is its to retrieve a lost benefactor. When a woman tells you its over, she means what she says, albeit some will continue to accept contributions. Like my cousin, once removed, Gabriel Delacroix from New Orleans would say, "I'll take their money but that doesn't mean I'll give them my heart".


----------



## donesies

Yeswecan said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I?m confused. She signed a lowball offer. Clearly money is not what this is about
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. But you asked how she was gaining financially. Yes, she signed a lowball offer. However, that is income #1. She will find OM who will be employed. Income #2. She will more that likely get a job. Income #3. Financially the money is coming in 3 ways.
Click to expand...

No, I said immensely in response to you using that same term. Even if you triple what I pay her, she is still in a far worse position financially than she was when she was married to me.

Furthermore:
1. The OM has squat
2. She will not get a full time job. I know her.


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## re16

Keep yourself busy. The more memories you create after D day, the faster those memories of her fade to the background.

Take weekend getaways, get out and live. Do some professional training in another city....


----------



## Windwalker

The OP is still looking at this wrong. Look, I love the money that I make, and while it's nowhere near what Done makes, but it's still well over 6 figures. Money is just not all that important to some people.

Money doesn't buy happiness. It provides security, but not happiness in and of itself.


----------



## Txquail

Did OMW get notified.


----------



## donesies

Txquail said:


> Did OMW get notified.


I have done everything I can short of a PI. That will be my next step.


----------



## Txquail

I would do everything to tell OMW. Beenn there, done it, have the tee shirt. 

Once OMW, in my case, was notified, she made him end it. OMW has more power than you. OM is probably only in it for sex, while your wife is in it for emotional reasons.

Take this way from her and she'll be brokeen. She might even try to come back to you. She just might sign anything because shes not thinking right. 

Heck she might try to come back, but stay the course and tell her once the divorse is final, if she tries, she can try to win you back, but you need the marriage to end now. She may go really lienant on you during the negotiations.

Dont ever marry her again, if she tries to get close you do what you want (sex), but dont get attached.


----------



## bandit.45

Malaise said:


> If she's signed the papers, and the papers are filed, does he really need to talk to her?
> 
> Let her just fade away and let him forget her.


Agreed. He needs to go full black ops mode.


----------



## eric1

One note - if he has sex with her there could be legal repercussions depending on locality, etc. I am sure that is the furthest thing from his mind at this point.


----------



## WasDecimated

donesies said:


> No, I said immensely in response to you using that same term. Even if you triple what I pay her, she is still in a far worse position financially than she was when she was married to me.
> 
> Furthermore:
> 1. The OM has squat
> 2. She will not get a full time job. I know her.


Well, there you go. Consider yourself lucky to be rid of this parasite. She's his problem now. And if he gets divorced, he'll have even less.

It may take time to get over the sting but you will appreciate the steps you have taken to put her in your rear-view mirror.


----------



## WasDecimated

donesies said:


> I have done everything I can short of a PI. That will be my next step.


After she cashes the checks, the next person you notify should be OM's wife. She has the right to know what a worm she's married to.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I’m confused. She signed a lowball offer. Clearly money is not what this is about


donesies she just wants to be gone and to have all of this behind her. 

She was never the woman you thought she was. I'm sorry my friend, but you married an innately broken person. You will never know her _"whys", _and please, for your health and sanity, do not dwell on the _whys._ She did what she did. It's done. You cannot change it. 

So take that truth and move forward towards healing. As a doctor you know that there are mysteries in biology and nature that may never be solved. Same can be said of people and their motives. Your WW has a hole in her, and that hole can never be filled...not by you or any man, because it is a deficiency in herself. She lacks the fundamental character to be able to be the wife you deserve, and she knows that. She knew she wasn't worthy of you long ago, and so she built up a false paradigm within herself that you were the cause of her deficiency, and therefore she had a right to seek solace and verification elsewhere. 

Stop blaming yourself. There is nothing you could have done, or said, or been, to have prevented her doing this to you.


----------



## WasDecimated

Txquail said:


> I would do everything to tell OMW. Beenn there, done it, have the tee shirt.
> 
> Once OMW, in my case, was notified, she made him end it. OMW has more power than you. OM is probably only in it for sex, while your wife is in it for emotional reasons.
> 
> Take this way from her and she'll be brokeen. She might even try to come back to you. She just might sign anything because shes not thinking right.
> 
> Heck she might try to come back, but stay the course and tell her once the divorse is final, if she tries, she can try to win you back, but you need the marriage to end now. She may go really lienant on you during the negotiations.
> 
> Dont ever marry her again, if she tries to get close you do what you want (sex), but dont get attached.


This, without the sex :iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> This morning was a bit odd.
> 
> I had to go over to the house where she has supposedly been staying to pick up my soon to be ex nephew. I had promised several weeks ago to take him for an outing this morning. I did, but it was weird to go over there. She was not there by the way. Her brother said that she left early that morning, probably because she knew I was coming over.
> 
> I did get an email from her about splitting the remainder of the household items. She did take the checks, but nothing has been cashed yet.


Ignore email. Drop off what you think is fair at her brothers after she cashes checks. Or not. You are not at her beck and call.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Actually after check clears deposit the rest of her crap at the address of the OM. Leave it on the lawn, email her a pic.


----------



## manwithnoname

donesies said:


> How is she gaining financially and immensely?


Alimony payments, asset splitting. High income.


----------



## donesies

manwithnoname said:


> Alimony payments, asset splitting. High income.


Again, she signed the low-ball offer on alimony. Thus, the high income didn't make any difference. Assets are just beginning to rise, so she doesn't get that much.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I find it unusual that a childless healthy person early 30s not only never worked (more understandable if on the infertility circuit and spouse provides) but is dead set against ever working even when single.

That is some entitlement, unless I am missing something.


----------



## curious234

Kids are the glue that keep a marriage. No glue here. Can there be a remote possibility that OBS has come to a consensus about your WW's playing a role of "caretaker" for her husband/familly


----------



## Rubix Cubed

curious234 said:


> Kids are the glue that keep a marriage. No glue here


 I think that should be more like Kids are the tipping point that keeps two unhappy people together, and makes them miserable, if they would separate without them.


----------



## eric1

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Actually after check clears deposit the rest of her crap at the address of the OM. Leave it on the lawn, email her a pic.


While this would feel nice what he should do it put it all into a storage unit, pay the first two months of storage fees and then have the lawyer deliver the keys. It is doing something for her he maybe shouldn't but this will get her out of his life asap, which is what he needs to do to start healing.


----------



## bandit.45

eric1 said:


> While this would feel nice what he should do it put it all into a storage unit, pay the first two months of storage fees and then have the lawyer deliver the keys. It is doing something for her he maybe shouldn't but this will get her out of his life asap, which is what he needs to do to start healing.


This is the best idea. 

I'd have everything out of that house that reminded me of her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I say as her parting huffy words were you are a scumbag a dime more than what is on those checks would be a dime too much. 

Everyone heals differently. Myself, I would find the lawn quite therapeutic. What is she going to do? Call him a scumbag again? Call the police? Take him to small claims court? Let her.


----------



## Cynthia

This story seems to convenient to me, but there is a possibility that it makes sense. STBXW just got back from a lover's get away. She is on a high and all she can think about is her fantasy. When she got the divorce papers, she was shocked, because it was completely unexpected and threw a monkey wrench in her plans. But her vacation hormones kicked back in right away and she realized that this was her chance to escape the life of drudgery she had and replace it with the freedom to be with her lover. She signed the lower offer, because "love is all we need," and she thinks she's taking the moral high ground. That is how she justifies this all to herself.


----------



## manwithnoname

donesies said:


> Again, she signed the low-ball offer on alimony. Thus, the high income didn't make any difference. Assets are just beginning to rise, so she doesn't get that much.


I'm sorry, I have missed the part about the low-ball offer, and was going on previous posts of high alimony etc.


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> STBXW just got back from a lover's get away. She is on a high and all she can think about is her fantasy. When she got the divorce papers, she was shocked, because it was completely unexpected and threw a monkey wrench in her plans. But her vacation hormones kicked back in right away and she realized that this was her chance to escape the life of drudgery she had and replace it with the freedom to be with her lover. She signed the lower offer, because "love is all we need," and she thinks she's taking the moral high ground. That is how she justifies this all to herself.
> 
> The above is one possibility, but there are factors in this story that seem too convenient.


She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.

She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think that should be more like Kids are the tipping point that keeps two unhappy people together, and makes them miserable, if they would separate without them.


Children are a product of marriage. The marriage itself is a product of nurturing, loyalty, and romantic care. Take care of the product and the children will be taken care of. Not the reverse. 

But Children are hurt by divorce so there is extra motivation to save a marriage when there are children. At the same time children should not be captive to a hostile or chilly home environment.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


She has to re-write the marital history. It is the only way she can live with what she has done.


----------



## Cromer

I wished that my XWW had left when she cheated. It would have been super painful for all involved at that time but my life would have been completely different by now. You may not see it now but I think you are lucky.


----------



## Rick Blaine

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


It will be very difficult not to analyze her every action and not ruminate on it. Every interaction will trigger you. Going dark will help you heal faster. I did this with my ex. I would send her a letter letting her know how hurtful her affair has been and how devestated you are by the the death of the marriage. I would add that in order to move forward you are ending contact with her. Ask her not to contact you again except for divorce business that can't be handled by the attorneys. Once divorce is final end contact for life.

Some may disagree about the first part of the letter, but it is important to honor the marriage (something I deem sacred) while at the same time not honoring her and her betrayal.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


Spend your time other than checking up on what your stxw is doing. Go dark. Any contact should be done via your lawyer. This helps in disconnecting, healing and moving on to bigger/better things in life. And they are coming brother!


----------



## Txquail

donesies said:


> CynthiaDe said:
> 
> 
> 
> STBXW just got back from a lover's get away. She is on a high and all she can think about is her fantasy. When she got the divorce papers, she was shocked, because it was completely unexpected and threw a monkey wrench in her plans. But her vacation hormones kicked back in right away and she realized that this was her chance to escape the life of drudgery she had and replace it with the freedom to be with her lover. She signed the lower offer, because "love is all we need," and she thinks she's taking the moral high ground. That is how she justifies this all to herself.
> 
> The above is one possibility, but there are factors in this story that seem too convenient.
> 
> 
> 
> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.
Click to expand...

She is upset with you because you discovered her lies and took steps to take all control out of her hands. I bet shes telling everyone that will listen that you were too controlling and even snooped on her. Hence why I tell you tell OMW asap.

I tell you this because .... been there, done it, have the tee shirt.

After telling OMW, she changed completely and agreed to my terms. OMW will stop the affair today if she knows.


----------



## blahfridge

Rick Blaine said:


> It will be very difficult not to analyze her every action and not ruminate on it. Every interaction will trigger you. Going dark will help you heal faster. I did this with my ex.* I would send her a letter letting her know how hurtful her affair has been and how devestated you are by the the death of the marriage. I would add that in order to move forward you are ending contact with her. Ask her not to contact you again except for divorce business that can't be handled by the attorneys. Once divorce is final end contact for life.*
> 
> Some may disagree about the first part of the letter, but it is important to honor the marriage (something I deem sacred) while at the same time not honoring her and her betrayal.


I think this is a viable option. Everyone is different, some people need to speak their piece in order to move on. It's really up to you. The only caveat I would add is that, with this approach, you run the risk of engaging in a back and forth with her. If you do this, block her immediately afterwards so that she can't send you a blame-shifting return email.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


In my experience, and I'm a divorce lawyer so it's vast, the more motivated they are to get out, the sweeter deal I can get you in a divorce. Like no alimony at all. Do you have a good lawyer? If she's really motivated to get out AND you're already giving her alimony then you don't.


----------



## VladDracul

And I hope you don't plan on deducting the voluntary payments you make before the divorce as alimony.


----------



## colingrant

Can't say this enough. You-dodged-a-bullet. You're head is still reeling, I know. But trust those whose heads aren't. One day you'll reflect upon this period and break into a cold sweat from having a flashback and realizing with a clear head what might have been had you stayed with your STBXW. This will be followed by a W-T-F WAS I THINKING, followed by a smile while shaking your head in disbelief. Give it time. It'll happen.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Correct. I’m so confused and hurting.


I know man


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


No you are not. 

She said she has been checked out for over a year. 

She said she loves someone else. 

She is just ready to move on. It is nothing you have done. 

At the same time this is all new to you.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

donesies said:


> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


If that were true, she wouldn't have wanted to "talk about it" first. No, she's angry and hurt, without good reason. Keep playing it by the book. When she decides she wants you back, tell her you're sorry that her boyfriend broke up with her. Tell her in her next relationship she should be honest and forthright and not pursue a married man.


----------



## ButtPunch

We have all been there.

She is doing you a huge favor.

Just takes time to process it and grieve.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies, I know you feel a gigantic hole in your life. That is shock. You are kind of numb right now, and pretty much operating on pure adrenaline. I kind of know how you are; I am the father of a physician, finished her residency in OBS\GYN, and is now an associate in a practice. The study, and dedication is beyond anything the average joe could imagine. She had this single focus, since Jr High. She learned to suture in Grade 10, and was demonstating different stitches for some Med students. So yeah. I know kind of what your mind is like. 

I assure you, the shock of this will wear off. There may be an anger phase, in my experience, there always is. Channel that energy into whatever pleases you. This gets better. She will soon be but a distant speck in your rearview mirror.


----------



## Suspicious1

CynthiaDe said:


> This story seems to convenient to me, but there is a possibility that it makes sense. STBXW just got back from a lover's get away. She is on a high and all she can think about is her fantasy. When she got the divorce papers, she was shocked, because it was completely unexpected and threw a monkey wrench in her plans. But her vacation hormones kicked back in right away and she realized that this was her chance to escape the life of drudgery she had and replace it with the freedom to be with her lover. She signed the lower offer, because "love is all we need," and she thinks she's taking the moral high ground. That is how she justifies this all to herself.


Yup, keeping up appearances, sneaking around, hidding evidence can all become to stressful for the poor ww.
Her new fpund freedom to have and do anything she now wants to is too good to passed up.

Like my ex, as soon as I grabbed my things the affair rampped up a few gears! Heck a few days after moving out her hair was curly, and she had a cotton guze stuck in her arm. 
I told her woe you been busy, she half smilled and said you gotta know your stats. Not what I was referring to but, she must had blood work to go al' natural.

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## Suspicious1

Cromer said:


> I wished that my XWW had left when she cheated. It would have been super painful for all involved at that time but my life would have been completely different by now. You may not see it now but I think you are lucky.


I've been reading your thread from the very start, but haven't read the part where you posted that the Ex cheated. 

Damn, sorry to hear this. You sounded sure as to what you had to do, but this was before hand knowing?



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## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


A strong characteristic of the immature is that they want immediate gratification, and don't have the self-control to delay it, even if it would be greater later for having done so. (see the marshmallow test in children)

She values the $X right now in her pocket more than the potential for $XX if she waits long enough or works or fights hard enough.

It has nothing to do with your behaviour during the marriage. But I'd bet she exhibited this sort of behaviour on her part in other ways during the marriage.

She seems gone like a ghost right now, but if/when loverboy rejects her, she'll come running back to you for plan B and try to convince you she was confused and made a mistake and will be better if you just take her back. Don't fall for it. It won't be anything to do with her own epiphany and sudden maturity, just everything about needing someone to take care of her.


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## Cromer

Suspicious1 said:


> I've been reading your thread from the very start, but haven't read the part where you posted that the Ex cheated.
> 
> Damn, sorry to hear this. You sounded sure as to what you had to do, but this was before hand knowing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Thanks. My update starts here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/378298-getting-ready-drop-news-25.html


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## eric1

CynthiaDe said:


> This story seems to convenient to me, but there is a possibility that it makes sense. STBXW just got back from a lover's get away. She is on a high and all she can think about is her fantasy. When she got the divorce papers, she was shocked, because it was completely unexpected and threw a monkey wrench in her plans. But her vacation hormones kicked back in right away and she realized that this was her chance to escape the life of drudgery she had and replace it with the freedom to be with her lover. She signed the lower offer, because "love is all we need," and she thinks she's taking the moral high ground. That is how she justifies this all to herself.




This is precisely why rapid action is required. He’s getter ****ed so he might as well take every advantage that he can


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## Townes

What an epic mindfu**. I can't even imagine how surreal this must be for you. I bet you just keep waiting to wake up. I'm so sorry man.


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## eric1

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.




Doesn’t matter what she thinks right now. She’s giving you an incredible gift which I’m short order you’ll actually have a good laugh over.

Go get that storage unit tomorrow. Walk around your house and video everything first. Everything that goes in the unit you need to take a picture of.


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## Tobyboy

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


How did you find out the method of deposit? Was it deposited into a shared/linked account? Or, were you told by her? 
Weird.


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## Tatsuhiko

Tobyboy said:


> How did you find out the method of deposit? Was it deposited into a shared/linked account? Or, were you told by her?
> Weird.


I'm guessing he saw the debit and a skewed photograph of the endorsed check?


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## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. No Contact now. The die is cast. Not even texts. Only lawyer talk.

2. Did you get the STD check? Even herpes is forever. Doctors need to be germ and virus free. 

3. You need to focus like a laser beam on career and your marathons. 

4. The OBS HAS TO BE INFORMED. Get a PI if needed. You got the bucks, now pull the trigger.

5. Are you into therapy yet? Triage is needed as soon as possible.

6. If POS OM leaves his wife, he will have to pay massive child support forever along with alimony. That will leave him penniless. Even if he and your ex shack up she will go through her money pretty damned fast. One of two things will happen. He will not desert his wife and she will get dumped. Or, she will get tired of his sponging off of her money and dump him. Either way, this ain't going to last. You need to get away from this fast. Steel yourself and get down the road. Find that new life, new love, and have the family you couldn't with her. Play the long game.


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## Elizabeth001

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. No Contact now. The die is cast. Not even texts. Only lawyer talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Did you get the STD check? Even herpes is forever. Doctors need to be germ and virus free.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. You need to focus like a laser beam on career and your marathons.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. The OBS HAS TO BE INFORMED. Get a PI if needed. You got the bucks, now pull the trigger.
> 
> 
> 
> 5. Are you into therapy yet? Triage is needed as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> 6. If POS OM leaves his wife, he will have to pay massive child support forever along with alimony. That will leave him penniless. Even if he and your ex shack up she will go through her money pretty damned fast. One of two things will happen. He will not desert his wife and she will get dumped. Or, she will get tired of his sponging off of her money and dump him. Either way, this ain't going to last. You need to get away from this fast. Steel yourself and get down the road. Find that new life, new love, and have the family you couldn't with her. Play the long game.




Well said!


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## WilliamM

...


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## MJJEAN

VermiciousKnid said:


> In my experience, and I'm a divorce lawyer so it's vast, the more motivated they are to get out, the sweeter deal I can get you in a divorce. Like no alimony at all. Do you have a good lawyer? If she's really motivated to get out AND you're already giving her alimony then you don't.





VladDracul said:


> And I hope you don't plan on deducting the voluntary payments you make before the divorce as alimony.


Eh, I think this depends on the state and the judge. I've seen judges refuse to sign off on divorce agreements that s/he considered too low-ball. 

Also, in our state, the clock on alimony and child support starts when the payor leaves the marital home. I'm going to use simple math here because it's really early and I can't have coffee for a hour after I take my meds.

Say I am the higher earner and I move out June 1. I file for divorce in August. We have our hearing to set support scheduled in January. Alimony and child support are set at $1,000 per month. It's retroactive to the day I moved out. So, as of the moment support is set in January, I am $6,000 in arrears. My options are to write a check for $6,000 or to agree to pay my monthly support plus a portion of the arrears and interest until I am caught up. 

Many lawyers here will run the numbers and advise clients to pay the estimated amount they'll owe or the amount they and their stbx agreed to, provided it is reasonable. Proof of payment is submitted to the court at the hearing. If I paid from June to January, I wouldn't be in arrears right off the bat.

There is a catch, though. All payments must be acknowledged as payments toward support otherwise they are considered gifts. The Payor has to get a signed receipt from the Payee or write "for child/spousal support" in the memo line of the check or money order used to pay.





Tobyboy said:


> How did you find out the method of deposit? Was it deposited into a shared/linked account? Or, were you told by her?
> Weird.


I can log in to my bank site, look at my account, see a check cleared, click it, and a box pops up with an image and the details. 

Also, you can sometimes tell by how fast the check cleared. If I write a check and the payee does a physical deposit it might take 24-48 hrs to clear my account. If they do a remote deposit it will usually clear the same day.


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## donesies

A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.

We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).

Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?


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## stevehowefan

donesies said:


> A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?


Possibly, but it's also possible, too, that she is trying to assuage her own guilt and justify her own actions. He was a drug user or abusive. He cheated on me. He drank too much. That sort of thing.


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## farsidejunky

What does your attorney have to say about it?


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## Wolfman1968

Yeswecan said:


> I agree. But you asked how she was gaining financially. Yes, she signed a lowball offer. However, that is income #1. She will find OM who will be employed. Income #2. She will more that likely get a job. Income #3. Financially the money is coming in 3 ways.


I can't see that this would be about money. 

I don't know Donesie's wife. But I work with doctors and nurses on a daily basis, and I know doctor's wives. And Donesies described his wife as exceptionally beautiful. 

Doctors' wives are about status. I'd be surprised if his wife ever intended to leave Donseies for a low earner. Instead, I would bet she intended to stay with Donseies all along (use him for his money and status), and lover-boy would be her secret "passion", like a PBS British drama. Hence, her chronicling all her inner secrets in her journal (which normally would be a stupid move if you really wanted to cheat effectively--why leave such a paper trail?). The plan went awry when Donesies found her journal (which is why she is especially pissed about it).

The problem is that, as I remember, Mrs. Donesies met lover-boy at the club. A nice, tight, social circle. Doctors' wives tend to hang in very tight social networks, worse than any junior high girls clique. Any violators of the rules will be shunned worse than a heretic from a Pennsylvania Amish community. Mrs. Donesies has really gone off the reservation by becoming a cheater; what's worse, is she's a beautiful women who's a cheater who is now being divorced by Donesies. That makes her dangerous. She might come after THEIR husbands!! When she tires of lover-boy, she's going to want a doctor's income again, and Donesies has already said she's not going to get a job (what doctor's wife wants to, after all?---that's why they married doctors!). She has shown that she doesn't respect marital boundaries, so obviously she is going to go husband-hunting on their turf---so they need to keep her OUT of their social circle and away from their husbands. Kick her out of the club, if they can.

That's why Mrs. Donesies wants this done quickly and quietly. The more this is dragged out, the more shame she feels in front of her peers---the other doctors' wives. She probably hasn't thought this through, and is only reacting emotionally. In the end, since her play is to get a new Big Money husband, Donesies low-ball alimony doesn't matter anyway--she needs high income and it sounds like she has the looks to get it. She'd just better move fast while her looks hold up, and not waste too much time with low-money lover-boy.


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## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?



It's possible there may be a legal reason to do this--claim she had to "get out fast" so she signed a low-ball offer under duress and then try to invalidate that agreement later. 

However, I suspect that she's trying to smear you in order to save face in front of other doctors' wives. She wants to justify her cheating and divorce, because it will go very badly for her with the other wives. 

I work with doctors and nurses on a daily basis, and am very acquainted with the doctors' wives subculture. 

As a VERY beautiful woman, proven cheater, newly divorced, shown to have no respect for the bonds of marriage, accustomed to a doctor's income, a club member, this woman is going to be a virtual pariah. Do you think they are going to want this temptress anywhere NEAR their husbands? NO WAY! Especially if they've been a little lackadaisical in the treatment of their own husbands, they'll be afraid that their spouses will be ripe for the plucking by Donesies's ex-wife, as soon as she realizes that her lover-boy can't maintain her in the style in which she has become accustomed.

I've seen it over and over with the "country club" set--doctors' wives, high end attorney wives, executive wives (of the local Fortune 50 company here), successful business owner wives --it's pretty much all the same. The wives are all competing against each other as they discard and try to snare ever higher status husbands.

In my cynical moods, sometimes I feel like the men in the "country club set" are unwitting pawns in a sort of Game of Thrones orchestrated by women.


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## bandit.45

I cant imagine existing in such a world as that.


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## Chaparral

donesies said:


> Yes - it talks about how his touch feels and the physical chemistry they have. Does mention kissing (in our house when I wasn’t there), but stops at that. Yes, the other man knows. She teaches music privately out of our home.
> 
> I can’t say that I was 100% happy, but I did/do love her and want a life with her.


He was in your house. Many take the bed out back and burn it. I would take it to the Salvation Army or Goodwill.

You said he was very active in the “club”. Is this a social or gym type club? Does his wife make more than him? 

Your estranged brother gave you a heads up? Both families are now aware it looks like.


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## TheDudeLebowski

Dude this is why you go nuclear and air all the dirty laundry. It keeps you smelling of roses when all the crap hits the fan and there is diarrhea spewing from the wayward spouse's mouth about you.


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## colingrant

donesies said:


> A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?


This is exactly why I posted earlier you dodged a bullet. The more you post about her the more I'm seeing she's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. If you haven't done so already, 

1) Change the locks, (check with attny on legalities) 
2) Identify her boyfriend, as he could be her partner in crime. 
3) Never meet with her alone. Have cops come to the house if she say's she's coming over. She can manufacture a spousal confrontation. 
4) CCTV house entrance so you can see if and who's at the house when you're not there if locks can't be changed.
5) Watch your back, literally

The call to YOUR brother suggests she's desperate. Desperate, vengeful people with limited options can be dangerous and vindictive. Be vigilant with respect to protecting you, your property and your assets. Don't be caught by surprise. I realize all of this is very, very hard to swallow, but it's real. Unfortunate, but nonetheless as real as it gets. Just stay a step ahead and talk with your attorney a lot as he's seen on the ugliness that infidelity and divorce offers up.


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## colingrant

Forgot to mention, listen closely, but say nothing with respect to your plans and intentions with your brother. When one is in a saddened state like you are, it's easy to want to "talk", however you're in a "what you say, can and will be used against you in a court of law" situation and you don't want your words to come back and haunt you. Remember, she's looking for anything.


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## WorkingOnMe

So there’s a trial date even though she signed?


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## WorkingOnMe

I’ve seen a lot of divorces over the last 22 years as a CPA. This is the first I’ve seen where in the span of a week we have a drafted and signed agreement, despite significant assets. Plus a trial date. And a check written for the property settlement. Your assets must be very liquid. You might want to get a second opinion on the agreement since your lawyer couldn’t have put that much time into it. Especially considering you work 100 a week plus marathon training. I mean 100 hours is like 7am to 9:30 pm 7 days a week not including time for lunch, let alone a thorough assessment of assets and liabilities. 


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## VladDracul

donesies said:


> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).


I think a lot of folks have the wrong impression about so-fault divorce. No-fault means the person seeking the divorce can divorce by simply wanting a divorce. It doesn't necessarily mean the courts won't tweak alimony, property settlements, visitation et cetera one way or the other based on conduct while married. Maybe VermiciousKnid will school us (or me).


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## TheDudeLebowski

Probably depends heavily on the state. I think there are 17 states that are strictly no fault states. A lot are no fault and fault states where you can file for no reason at all, but infidelity can play a part in alimony and such. Very few fault states left if I remember correctly.


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## sandcastle

WorkingOnMe said:


> I’ve seen a lot of divorces over the last 22 years as a CPA. This is the first I’ve seen where in the span of a week we have a drafted and signed agreement, despite significant assets. Plus a trial date. And a check written for the property settlement. Your assets must be very liquid. You might want to get a second opinion on the agreement since your lawyer couldn’t have put that much time into it. Especially considering you work 100 a week plus marathon training. I mean 100 hours is like 7am to 9:30 pm 7 days a week not including time for lunch, let alone a thorough assessment of assets and liabilities.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank You!

Trial date set?

What state do you live in OP?


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## EleGirl

donesies said:


> Signed papers were filed and checks were delivered to her. We'll see if she cashes them.


She signed the divorce papers. Whether she cashes the your checks does not matter. The signed papers are enough. This is an uncontested divorce. All that needs to be done is the signed papers filed with the court. You don't even need a court date. The judges reviews the divorce papers at his desk and signs them.

It rather odd that your attorney is telling you that you needed to write her some big checks right away before the settlement is signed by the judge.


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## sandcastle

EleGirl said:


> She signed the divorce papers. Whether she cashes the your checks does not matter. The signed papers are enough. This is an uncontested divorce. All that needs to be done is the signed papers filed with the court. You don't even need a court date. The judges reviews the divorce papers at his desk and signs them.
> 
> It rather odd that your attorney is telling you that you needed to write her some big checks right away before the settlement is signed by the judge.


All people should get married in, live in and get divorced in whatever state the Donesies lives in.

Spectacular turnaround!!!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?


She signed the divorce petition and cashed the check. Done. Obviously with an attorney's counsel. 

I would not call the next court date a trial, it is just a hearing to see where both sides are and get the judge to sign off. Since she signed the papers the hearing might not even be needed. Depends on your state law.

She can try and claim she signed under duress. She will have a mountain to climb proving that. Being stupid or proud or arrogant and signing a contract under duress are 2 different things. If she tries to claim duress she opens herself to being cross examined by your attorney who can introduce the journal and argue the only duress she had was getting found out cheating. Your attorney can even subpoena her affair partner and question him about her duress levels while she was shagging him behind your back. 

She is fishing for drama. let your attorney know and don't sweat it.

Like others said, protect yourself with a VAR going forward in case she suddenly pops up and starts to instigate. Don't put that past her! I would install an outdoor surveillance system and change the locks too.


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## EleGirl

donesies said:


> I have done everything I can short of a PI. That will be my next step.


Why would you waste money on a PI? You have filed for divorce and she signed. So the divorce is all but done.

What do you expect a PI to do for you that would actually help? Your best bet at this point is to focus on yourself and moving on.


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## sandcastle

Is this a mail order bride?

Did she get her green card and bail?

Really- 7 days?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

EleGirl said:


> Why would you waste money on a PI? You have filed for divorce and she signed. So the divorce is all but done.
> 
> What do you expect a PI to do for you that would actually help? Your best bet at this point is to focus on yourself and moving on.


PI was to contact the OMs wife and make sure she was informed her spouse is a cheater.


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## EleGirl

donesies said:


> She just remote deposited the check for the first month of alimony. The asset check was much larger, so she can’t remote deposit that.
> 
> She REALLY wants to get out. You’d think I was an abusive POS husband.


You said that you two basically did your own thing and did little to nothing together while married. Apparently what's important to her is the emotional connection. It was not there. She knows that the marriage is dead for her so she's already moved on. That's what an exit affair is about.


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## EleGirl

sandcastle said:


> All people should get married in, live in and get divorced in whatever state the Donesies lives in.
> 
> Spectacular turnaround!!!


When I divorced in 1997, it took a few hours. I was home on leave from the Army. Called an attorney. Met him at his office late morning. He called a judge and we were in chambers by 1pm. The judge signed the one page divorce. Cost me $25.

When I divorced in 2012, it took about 5 days. I typed up the divorce papers. He signed them. We both went to the county clerk and filed. And then I dropped the filed/signed papers off with the Judge's clerk. 5 days later I picked up the signed papers and filed those with the clerk. Cost me $135.

If both parties agree it can all go very quickly and cheaply. And today, with the high number of divorces, a court date is not needed if it's uncontested and all papers are properly signed.


----------



## sandcastle

EleGirl said:


> When I divorced in 1997, it took a few hours. I was home on leave from the Army. Called an attorney. Met him at his office late morning. He called a judge and we were in chambers by 1pm. The judge signed the one page divorce. Cost me $25.
> 
> When I divorced in 2012, it took about 5 days. I typed up the divorce papers. He signed them. We both went to the county clerk and filed. And then I dropped the filed/signed papers off with the Judge's clerk. 5 days later I picked up the signed papers and filed those with the clerk. Cost me $135.
> 
> If both parties agree it can all go very quickly and cheaply. And today, with the high number of divorces, a court date is not needed if it's uncontested and all papers are properly signed.


It can go quickly but just the filing and a Judge signing off on anything takes far longer than 7 days.

Not sure what state you filed in when your attorney called a Judge in 97 but everyone should get married, live in and get divorced there too.


----------



## Rick Blaine

EleGirl said:


> You said that you two basically did your own thing and did little to nothing together while married. Apparently what's important to her is the emotional connection. It was not there. She knows that the marriage is dead for her so she's already moved on. That's what an exit affair is about.


I agree with this, and while his wife is 100% responsible for cheating, it's very important for Donesies to learn from this. If he was working all the time and unavailable then that led to her to falling out of love. As I wrote in an earlier post, falling out of love is a problem to solve not an excuse to leave a marriage or cheat. But Donesies will hopefully reflect on his part of the demise of his marriage and learn from it so that he will be a better future husband. This is not to blame him for his wife's infidelity. She owns it. But he has to own a part of the crumbling of the marriage. He mentioned that he has been reflecting, but he has not elaborated.


----------



## EleGirl

sandcastle said:


> It can go quickly but just the filing and a Judge signing off on anything takes far longer than 7 days.
> 
> Not sure what state you filed in when your attorney called a Judge in 97 but everyone should get married, live in and get divorced there too.


New Mexico. That was 1997. Today an attorney cannot just call a judge and get in court the same day. Why? Because our population has exploded and there are many times more divorces. So the courts have implemented a way to fast track non-contested divorces. Most are non-contested. So yea, it takes a week or less, depending how many cases the judge gets in the week, to get them signed off.


----------



## sandcastle

EleGirl said:


> New Mexico. That was 1997. Today an attorney cannot just call a judge and get in court the same day. Why? Because our population has exploded and there are many times more divorces. So the courts have implemented a way to fast track non-contested divorces. Most are non-contested. So yea, it takes a week or less, depending how many cases the judge gets in the week, to get them signed off.


Vote for NM marriage and Divorce!


----------



## EleGirl

sandcastle said:


> Vote for NM marriage and Divorce!


It's all about uncontested divorce.

IN 1996 I divorced my son's father, what a nightmare. He was a serial cheater and physically abusive. But he fought the whole way. The divorce took 12 months and cost me about $40,000. I'm sure my ex paid much more than that because he had a team of 3 lawyers. I only had one.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

That is why it's called the land of enchantment.


----------



## sandcastle

TheDudeLebowski said:


> That is why it's called the land of enchantment.


Epic! Double rainbows, Dude!


----------



## Jasel

I think your wife is going to wind up seriously regretting this. She just hasn't faced enough consequences at this time and the ones she has haven't sunk in yet. Right now she's running on endorphins, adrenaline, impulse and fantasy. That's only going to sustain her for so long until she crashes. At that point you might have a better idea of where her head is at.

And I know you think your head is spinning, but if your wife could ice skate on hers, she would have dominated the Olympics. Believe me, there is nothing logical going on in her mind right now. How you're feeling is actually normal (in a way).


----------



## TDSC60

EleGirl said:


> She signed the divorce papers. Whether she cashes the your checks does not matter. The signed papers are enough. This is an uncontested divorce. All that needs to be done is the signed papers filed with the court. You don't even need a court date. The judges reviews the divorce papers at his desk and signs them.
> 
> It rather odd that your attorney is telling you that you needed to write her some big checks right away before the settlement is signed by the judge.


I think the timeline was this.

Attorney prepares divorce papers and wife is served.
Attorney prepares a low-ball settlement offer and OP presents this to STBXW.
She signs the offer.
Attorney advises PO to send one month alimony and property settlement checks base on the papers she signed.
OP does so and STBXW cashed the alimony check.

I think the attorney felt that if she cashed the checks that would weaken her position if she tried to fight for more latter.

Some states do require both parties to appear before a judge prior to issuing the final decree.

My son caught his wife cheating (caught in bed with OM in my son's house). This was in New Mexico. It took less than three weeks to get a final divorce. And, yes, he and his POSXW were required to appear before the judge.


----------



## TDSC60

EleGirl said:


> Why would you waste money on a PI? You have filed for divorce and she signed. So the divorce is all but done.
> 
> What do you expect a PI to do for you that would actually help? Your best bet at this point is to focus on yourself and moving on.


I think OP is referring to a PI to help communicate with POSOM's wife.

He has tried the more normal routes of contact. He should now just drop it and move on.


----------



## donesies

WorkingOnMe said:


> So there’s a trial date even though she signed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. We go in front of the judge to finalize, but both our signatures are on it and she has acted on the terms of the contract (cashed first month alimony). Waiting for her to cash the other checks for split of assets.


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of folks have the wrong impression about so-fault divorce. No-fault means the person seeking the divorce can divorce by simply wanting a divorce. It doesn't necessarily mean the courts won't tweak alimony, property settlements, visitation et cetera one way or the other based on conduct while married. Maybe VermiciousKnid will school us (or me).
Click to expand...

My lawyer said her infidelity didn’t matter to the courts


----------



## Rick Blaine

donesies said:


> My lawyer said her infidelity didn’t matter to the courts


This is one reason that infidelity is so rampant. The scales of justice tilt on the side of cheaters.


----------



## donesies

EleGirl said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have done everything I can short of a PI. That will be my next step.
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you waste money on a PI? You have filed for divorce and she signed. So the divorce is all but done.
> 
> What do you expect a PI to do for you that would actually help? Your best bet at this point is to focus on yourself and moving on.
Click to expand...

The PI was to figure out how to contact the OM’s W


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> The PI was to figure out how to contact the OM’s W


Not sure where you live, but you may be able to find the guy’s home address using public property tax records.

That’s assuming, of course, that you have his full name (or enough of it), and know which county he lives in.

Oh, and that he actually has property.


----------



## skerzoid

:laugh:TheDudeLebowski:

I have taught criminals from there. The called it "the Land Of Entrapment".:laugh:


----------



## donesies

GusPolinski said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> The PI was to figure out how to contact the OM’s W
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure where you live, but you may be able to find the guy’s home address using public property tax records.
> 
> That’s assuming, of course, that you have his full name (or enough of it), and know which county he lives in.
> 
> Oh, and that he actually has property.
Click to expand...

I have the address for the 800 sq ft ****hole he lives in, but no phone number for his wife


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

I mentioned before about the lawyer drafting a note to the "Club". Is this a real club with donors, dues, a board, & such? If so, your silence is a bargaining chip. Here is a cutting from a post where the betrayed husband called the the head of a charitable organization where his WW and the OM met and carried on their affair. Whether you would actually do this or not is academic but the threat of it could be used as a counter balance to your WW trying to dig up dirt on you. This is a clinic on this type of thing. If her "Club" is as important to her as you say it is the mere threat of this could be devastating to her. A well placed letter from your lawyer to the club or her or any target of opportunity If she continues to try to harm your reputation could be something in your bag of tricks. I hope that you are getting out of your fog and starting to get angry. She is not your friend but your worst enemy.....

"I called the organization and spoke to the Director. I introduced myself to Mrs. La-di-dah as Mrs. W's husband and got all of the pleasantries and how very much they miss her and blah blah blah. I asked if she knew why my wife stopped volunteering. I got a "Yes" and then a very sanitized version of an affair - she said that my wife said she developed somewhat of an inappropriate relationship with POS and that she wanted to dedicate herself to her marriage and how admirable that is. So I put a stop to the bull**** and told her that while POS was still married and ostensibly working through marriage counseling with his wife, he targeted my wife and the two had a PA for 3 months, which as she could imagine has utterly devastated our family. I got silence. I then took a leap and said that I was shocked to find out that despite this, POS was still volunteering at her organization. I then got a whole bunch of, “I don’t understand,” “He’s a very valued member,” “donates time and money,” and so on. Now, you guys don’t know me so well, but I can be a real ******* at times. I have been yelling and shouting at my wife, which isn’t right, but that’s all emotion and hurt combined with anger. When I get really, really angry, I go cold. And this lady got me furious. So I said in an extremely calm voice, that I wonder how her volunteering and donations will fare when I call every single one of my wife’s co-volunteer’s husbands, as well as the Board members, and the Dinner Chairs, and the journal editors, etc., and let them know about POS and that scum like him will likely target their wives next, and moreover that you are perfectly fine with someone like that representing your organization despite the destruction to families, as long as you get a nice check out of it? How much longer do you think you’ll still have your job? She said “You wouldn’t.” Oh – I absolutely would. I don’t care how embarrassing it is for me, I wouldn’t hesitate one iota. “But the kids…” So I said I don’t give a flying f__k about the kids. I care about my family. She then went with “There’s no need…” and I cut her off and I said there’s every need in the world and that I expect her to handle this quickly and appropriately. She finally said I made my point and that she’ll take care of it. I said that she should make sure she does so before the end of the week. Otherwise I start making phone calls. Wished her a good day and hung up."


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I have the address for the 800 sq ft ****hole he lives in, but no phone number for his wife


Just watch the house from a car rental. 3 kids are going to school unless home schooled. Watch the address from 7:30 AM on. Someone is taking them to school. If it is him, wait until he leaves, knock on door.

Or simply hire a PI, get a message to her. Then just move forward no matter what.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> My lawyer said her infidelity didn’t matter to the courts


In Georgia if the divorce is a direct result of a spouse committing adultery, that spouse may be precluded from receiving alimony. The faithful spouse must be the one that filed and it must be on the grounds of adultery. There are 13 grounds for divorce in Georgia and "irreconcilable differences" is the no-fault one. It cannot be a "dukes mixture" of the other grounds. Proving the adultery occurred is another matter. Moreover, if the spouses have sex after the adultery is discovered, or the spouses continue to live together, the courts in Georgia, and I suspect most other states, generally view that as the innocent spouse forgiving the adultery. I'm pretty sure Florida, North and South Carolina operate under the same principles.
But like I said before, I practiced tax law and not family law.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have the address for the 800 sq ft ****hole he lives in, but no phone number for his wife
> 
> 
> 
> Just watch the house from a car rental. 3 kids are going to school unless home schooled. Watch the address from 7:30 AM on. Someone is taking them to school. If it is him, wait until he leaves, knock on door.
> 
> Or simply hire a PI, get a message to her. Then just move forward no matter what.
Click to expand...

I’m not going to spy myself. I don’t have the time or inclination. I don’t even want to approach the OM’s W in person. Just make sure she gets the message.


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> My lawyer said her infidelity didn?t matter to the courts
> 
> 
> 
> In Georgia if the divorce is a direct result of a spouse committing adultery, that spouse may be precluded from receiving alimony. The faithful spouse must be the one that filed and it must be on the grounds of adultery. There are 13 grounds for divorce in Georgia and "irreconcilable differences" is the no-fault one. It cannot be a "dukes mixture" of the other grounds. Proving the adultery occurred is another matter. Moreover, if the spouses have sex after the adultery is discovered, or the spouses continue to live together, the courts in Georgia, and I suspect most other states, generally view that as the innocent spouse forgiving the adultery. I'm pretty sure Florida, North and South Carolina operate under the same principles.
> But like I said before, I practiced tax law and not family law.
Click to expand...

This state operates much differently


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?


That is quite a twist and shows that she is not just moving on, and that she is preparing for some sort of battle.

Her true colors are shining brighter.

Cheat, blame OP, then try to attack his character.

How close were you to her parents? It does seem like it would be the right thing to do to formally end the relationship with them. I would think I would be mad if my son in law divorced my daughter and never said a single word to me. If she is singing some crazy song about you to them, you could at least plant seeds of doubt in their mind that she is making it up.


----------



## Malaise

OP

You might consider moving this to the Private section. 

Couldn't hurt.


----------



## donesies

Malaise said:


> OP
> 
> You might consider moving this to the Private section.
> 
> Couldn't hurt.


Appreciate the suggestion. I have zero concerns about her finding this, tbh. I appreciate all the input and I'll take my chances here.


----------



## donesies

re16 said:


> That is quite a twist and shows that she is not just moving on, and that she is preparing for some sort of battle.
> 
> Her true colors are shining brighter.
> 
> Cheat, blame OP, then try to attack his character.
> 
> How close were you to her parents? It does seem like it would be the right thing to do to formally end the relationship with them. I would think I would be mad if my son in law divorced my daughter and never said a single word to me. If she is singing some crazy song about you to them, you could at least plant seeds of doubt in their mind that she is making it up.


Just praying her signing and cashing the checks solidifies the contract


----------



## Chaparral

Not that she has done this, do you think this is totally out of character? You haven’t really described your wife. Is this completely shocking knowing her family? Has your sex life changed in recent years? 

How did she react to not being able to have children? I am wondering if you missed how bad this was makeing her feel. Anyone that had the time to read a lot of threads here would be amazed at two things. One is how alike cheaters are. They all seem to closely follow the same script. Amazingly so. Also, there seem to be common themes that lead up to the cheating. In your case, I think this is tied to not being able to have children and she is trying to fill an empty hole in herself. I’m guessing with your scientific background you live a more logical and straightforward life. I’m also guessing you she missed her emotional turmoil and she has been running to keep her head above water. 
Her statement the marriage has been dead for awhile may be true. But you would have noticed something. The problem is that is also a first excuse most cheaters use and really ha nothing to do with reality. It is used simply for justification of bad behavior.
I think she was looking for dirt on you to simply absolve her of her guilt. I don’t see her as trying to attack you with it. She has gone through having to face being barren and now cheating on a loving husband. If I were you I would ask her if she needs to talk to you.

What is her shark like father like? Does their family background correspond to her actions?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Just praying her signing and cashing the checks solidifies the contract


Don't sweat it. 

If she has deposited both checks she cannot back pedal on the papers she signed. It is done.


----------



## MyRevelation

donesies said:


> Just praying her signing and cashing the checks solidifies the contract


It should ... basic contract law ... you had offer and acceptance, now you've also added consideration. I'd say your agreement is solid.


----------



## Taxman

Skerzoid, I recognise that passage from Walloped original post on Surviving Infidelity. I applauded that, as I knew the organization that his wife worked at, and, not incidentally, that organization exists in my city as well, AND it seems that there are multiple people like the OM working there, as there were several incidents of a similar nature over the last few years. (My wife wanted to volunteer for that organization and I said that it would be over my dead body-her sister works there, and, guess what? Yup, and thank goodness she was not married at the time). Donesies, since you know the address, I would pay a PI to cover the place, and serve the evidence on the wife. That should fix his little red wagon. The club? From what you are describing, it sounds more or less like a country club, golf or tennis club. Those, to be polite, are hotbeds of infidelity. I worked at one the summer before Uni. I was 18, and still looked like I played football and wrestling. To be succinct, management tended to hire nicer looking guys as steam room attendants. My colleagues, were at one time or another, banging members' wives. I was holding down two jobs to pay for Uni, so I really did not partake but was offered several times. There were evenings, where there was a large group of men playing cards outside the steam room, and one or two of the off duty guys would call in to see which husbands were there. One of my colleagues was caught, he lost his job the next day, and had five or six wives press their phone numbers into his hand.


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> Not that she has done this, do you think this is totally out of character? You haven’t really described your wife. Is this completely shocking knowing her family? Has your sex life changed in recent years?
> 
> How did she react to not being able to have children? I am wondering if you missed how bad this was makeing her feel. Anyone that had the time to read a lot of threads here would be amazed at two things. One is how alike cheaters are. They all seem to closely follow the same script. Amazingly so. Also, there seem to be common themes that lead up to the cheating. In your case, I think this is tied to not being able to have children and she is trying to fill an empty hole in herself. I’m guessing with your scientific background you live a more logical and straightforward life. I’m also guessing you she missed her emotional turmoil and she has been running to keep her head above water.
> Her statement the marriage has been dead for awhile may be true. But you would have noticed something. The problem is that is also a first excuse most cheaters use and really ha nothing to do with reality. It is used simply for justification of bad behavior.
> I think she was looking for dirt on you to simply absolve her of her guilt. I don’t see her as trying to attack you with it. She has gone through having to face being barren and now cheating on a loving husband. If I were you I would ask her if she needs to talk to you.
> 
> What is her shark like father like? Does their family background correspond to her actions?


Which part are you asking is out of character? I guess all of it sort of is

I didn't miss the sorrow and heartbreak about not being able to have children. And we both felt it. It was devastating. She took a bad situation and made it worse

The father is very particular when it comes to legal matters. My guess is he's asking her why the hell she signed anything and didn't lawyer-up first.


----------



## SadSamIAm

My only worry would be the discussion about the reason for what you did. The intent of what you did was to get her to sign and cash the cheques as soon as possible so that the contract would be fully exercuted. The discussion was about getting her to do this as quickly as possible before she changed her mind about things.

Not sure it affects anything legal. But it could be used to try to prove that you were trying to take advantage of her frame of mind.


----------



## donesies

How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


----------



## SunCMars

donesies said:


> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.


Actually, this was the best closure possible. She openly admitted not loving you. And then she blamed you; saying she has not loved you for a while.

This takes all the heat out of the separation, out of the divorce. If she got down on her knees and begged, it would have tugged on your heartstrings. It would have 'pained' you.

She broke off with you cold.

Cold is perfect to deal with. No emotions are involved, other than residual resentment on your part. Your pride has been hurt.

Broken trust and betrayed love hurts a lot more than broken pride. 

This is perfect. Hallelujah.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


She signs a quit claim deed removing her from the original deed. Talk to your attorney. She might delay on that demanding more money.


----------



## MyRevelation

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


The agreement she signed should have covered the transfer of the house and the timing for that to be accomplished. Normally, its done by way of a "Quit Claim" deed from her to you.


----------



## Txquail

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


Quit claim then REFINANCE the home and get her name off morg if you have one


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


Ask your lawyer. That's what you pay him for.


----------



## Txquail

Dont forget to get her name off any life insurance and anything with a deed/title


----------



## bandit.45

Go online and sign up with a credit report website. Run a report on yourself and make sure there are no more open credit accounts with your and her names on them. She may have opened up lines of credit prior to your filing for D that you may not even know about. Close them or put a freeze on all of them.


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


A quitclaim deed can be filed at the County Recorder's office. You can just grab a form online, fill it out, get it notarized by both parties, take it to recorder and they do it within a day or two.

The risk for her is that she is likely still on the mortgage. You typically have to refinance to get her off.

Talk to your lender to see what they will need.

ETA: are you on title to any vehicle she has access to? Get that taken care of quick before OM crashes your car and you are responsible.


----------



## manfromlamancha

donesies said:


> A bit of a plot twist and the first crack in her veneer: *WW reached out to my estranged brother (my brother hates me) last night. WW let him know that we were divorcing and the date of the trial and was looking for dirt on me.*
> 
> We are in a no-fault state so I have no clue why she even wants dirt (even so - there is none and so my brother couldn’t give her any).
> 
> Any ideas what this could be about? Is she trying to somehow unravel the signed contract (which she has already acted on) and run to an attorney?


How did you find out that she contacted your brother if you are estranged from him and he hates you?


----------



## Survivn13

Quit claim deed yes. Did your agreement address splitting home equity? How about 401k, IRA or any other retirement funds? Those are on the table in my state.


----------



## donesies

manfromlamancha said:


> How did you find out that she contacted your brother if you are estranged from him and he hates you?


Very circuitously...have a friend who talks to him and that friend spoke to another friend who speaks to me...


----------



## donesies

Survivn13 said:


> Quit claim deed yes. Did your agreement address splitting home equity? How about 401k, IRA or any other retirement funds? Those are on the table in my state.


Yes, all were included in the agreement and the split and the check she received


----------



## donesies

re16 said:


> A quitclaim deed can be filed at the County Recorder's office. You can just grab a form online, fill it out, get it notarized by both parties, take it to recorder and they do it within a day or two.
> 
> The risk for her is that she is likely still on the mortgage. You typically have to refinance to get her off.
> 
> Talk to your lender to see what they will need.
> 
> ETA: are you on title to any vehicle she has access to? Get that taken care of quick before OM crashes your car and you are responsible.


Cars are in separate names already


----------



## VladDracul

I have to admit I'm perplexed by how stupid and/or desperate this woman is. (especially having a father that's an attorney if I read it right.) Of course there is always the saying, dumb like a fox.


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> I have to admit I'm perplexed by how stupid and/or desperate this woman is. (especially having a father that's an attorney if I read it right.) Of course there is always the saying, dumb like a fox.


Sorry if I was unclear. Her father is a shark, meaning very tough and doesn't take crap. But he's not an attorney


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


 If you read the divorce agreement you should find that information, as it should be clearly spelled out in there.


----------



## oldtruck

skerzoid said:


> She said “You wouldn’t.” Oh – I absolutely would. I don’t care how embarrassing it is for me, I wouldn’t hesitate one iota. “But the kids…” So I said I don’t give a flying f__k about the kids. I care about my family. She then went with “There’s no need…” and I cut her off and I said there’s every need in the world and that I expect her to handle this quickly and appropriately. She finally said I made my point and that she’ll take care of it. I said that she should make sure she does so before the end of the week. Otherwise I start making phone calls. Wished her a good day and hung up."


So how did this nice lady take care of things for you?


----------



## Txquail

donesies said:


> VladDracul said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have to admit I'm perplexed by how stupid and/or desperate this woman is. (especially having a father that's an attorney if I read it right.) Of course there is always the saying, dumb like a fox.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry if I was unclear. Her father is a shark, meaning very tough and doesn't take crap. But he's not an attorney
Click to expand...

Does he know what daughter did? Usually the shark isnt as aggressive if he knows his kid is wrong


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> How do I go about getting her off the title to the house? Anyone know?


Your lawyer should know.


----------



## CuddleBug

donesies said:


> Worst Valentine’s Day ever!
> 
> My wife of 7 years accidentally left her journal in a very accessible place and didn’t expect me to be home early. I opened it and found daily references to how much she loves another man.
> 
> It’s like an atomic bomb just dropped on me. I knew something was up because she had grown distant but I couldn’t prove anything. I somehow knew something was up with this guy but I always trusted her and never believed she would ever love someone more.
> 
> It’s all so hard to understand. I’m a respected and high-earning specialist physician. I have worked hard for everything I have. I am charasmatic, talented, and in great shape (run marathons).
> 
> This other man is overweight, broke (below the poverty line), and married with 3 young children.
> 
> My wife works part time. This gave her unlimited time and funds to meet up with this other man.
> 
> I just can’t believe this and it SUCKS. How do I cope? What do I do??




- Wow, I feel for you man, I really do.



After reading this, I think:


- you have a real career, making great money (she works part time and has no career and makes crap money)

- you run marathons, are in fantastic shape (she does not)

- she cannot have children (this other man has 3 kids)

- you are probably a hot guy (she might feel you are better than her and she's out of your league).

- this other man is very fat, low income and basically a loser (she doesn't feel pressure and out of his league and he has kids).

- you work probably a lot of hours and didn't spend much time with her (she was lonely and found this other guy who filled that for her and he's not intimating).



- If she knows she can't have children, why didn't she go back to school, get a student loan, and get a career like you? (nothing stopping her from doing this).

- why didn't she try to adopt?


- It's up to you, but I would confront her and give her a choice. Ditch this other man immediately or I'm filling for divorce yesterday.


----------



## Elizabeth001

CuddleBug said:


> - Wow, I feel for you man, I really do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After reading this, I think:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - you have a real career, making great money (she works part time and has no career and makes crap money)
> 
> 
> 
> - you run marathons, are in fantastic shape (she does not)
> 
> 
> 
> - she cannot have children (this other man has 3 kids)
> 
> 
> 
> - you are probably a hot guy (she might feel you are better than her and she's out of your league).
> 
> 
> 
> - this other man is very fat, low income and basically a loser (she doesn't feel pressure and out of his league and he has kids).
> 
> 
> 
> - you work probably a lot of hours and didn't spend much time with her (she was lonely and found this other guy who filled that for her and he's not intimating).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - If she knows she can't have children, why didn't she go back to school, get a student loan, and get a career like you? (nothing stopping her from doing this).
> 
> 
> 
> - why didn't she try to adopt?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - It's up to you, but I would confront her and give her a choice. Ditch this other man immediately or I'm filling for divorce yesterday.




You missed the bus. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skerzoid

oldtruck said:


> So how did this nice lady take care of things for you?


oldtruck, this was a cutting from a post on SI by Walloped. The organization dumped the POS.... Walloped also had the POS served with a Cease & Desist order which he had sent to the guys home where the OBS opened it. He did this because the OM would not stop trying to contact his wife. The OBS divorced the POS. He was very rich so she took him for half of everything.>


----------



## Taxman

With respect to your house, the title transfer in a divorce situation would probably mean some assurances to the municipal authorities. In your case, pay the extra and have your lawyer's office do the conveyancing. They are best with the ins and outs of this. If they cannot do it , they can pass your file over to a Real Estate attorney.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Very circuitously...have a friend who talks to him and that friend spoke to another friend who speaks to me...


Why are you estranged from your brother? Was he the black sheep and you the all-star? Did mommy and daddy love you more than him?


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Sorry if I was unclear. Her father is a shark, meaning very tough and doesn't take crap. But he's not an attorney


He can't usurp the law.


----------



## Taxman

PS, Donesies:
Her dad may be a shark, but in my experience, once a parent discovers that their child's infidelity has wrecked their marriage, they usually stop blaming the spouse. I have even counselled betrayed spouses to contact their in-laws. In one case, hubby told his FIL. The shlt hit the fan with his wife. She was livid. She never wanted mommy and daddy to know that she was a "dirty girl". They found out all right. He told his FIL, and told him about the numerous lovers. He then gave FIL their names and phone numbers. By the time he talked to his daughter, he had spoken with three other guys. Although he said it pained him to think of his daughter in highly unsavory terms, he told her that her husband was totally justified in divorcing her. He said that he supports her husband in this. He said that she should get professional help. He stopped speaking to her, and that was calculated by her ex. He knew that her parental relationship was the most important thing in her life. He effectively ruined that relationship. She was no longer the golden child. It weighed on her heavily. She tried to introduce her parents to new guys, to which they replied that they were no longer interested in who she slept with. That was her cross to bear. What was worse? They kept on good terms with her ex. They sent in engagement and wedding presents when he moved on. She had a conniption when she discovered her parents sent a thoughtful gift to him and his new wife on the announcement of her pregnancy. That cut her worse than anything. She never wanted children. It was essentially her foot out the door. When he went looking for a new partner, that was on the front burner, he wanted a child. The ex is still looking for Mr Rightnow, exhubby has a nice new wife, and a pretty daughter. I like happy endings.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> He can't usurp the law.


This is about her running to a lawyer or not. Whether or not it changes anything in the grand scheme of things, it can cost a lot of time and money if she does so, and he is much more likely to convince her to do it


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Your wife and her boyfriend are very fortunate that no-one has outed them to their club. She would lose the esteem of fellow members. Is she aware of this? You've been kind in not informing them. I hope she realizes this if she plans to contest the agreement she signed.


----------



## donesies

Tatsuhiko said:


> Your wife and her boyfriend are very fortunate that no-one has outed them to their club. She would lose the esteem of fellow members. Is she aware of this? You've been kind in not informing them. I hope she realizes this if she plans to contest the agreement she signed.


I do believe that she is scared that the journal entries will be made public. Maybe she is signing to try and keep ME happy.


----------



## Rick Blaine

donesies said:


> I do believe that she is scared that the journal entries will be made public. Maybe she is signing to try and keep ME happy.


Ironically, except for leaving the journal out, this one keeps her cards close to her vest. I wonder if she left it there on purpose so she could exit quicker. Probably not, but then again the journal, in her mind, conveniently gave her the straw man that you violated her privacy and were an awful husband to do so.

Have you heard from her in the past couple of days? The monsters on due on Maple Street.


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## donesies

Rick Blaine said:


> Ironically, except for leaving the journal out, this one keeps her cards close to her vest. I wonder if she left it there on purpose so she could exit quicker. Probably not, but then again the journal, in her mind, conveniently gave her the straw man that you violated her privacy and were an awful husband to do so.
> 
> Have you heard from her in the past couple of days? The monsters on due on Maple Street.


She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.


Delete what pictures? The snapshots on your phone?


----------



## Tatsuhiko

There is no reason to meet with her. If pictures are to be deleted, this can be performed by one person. I think you should go dark on her and not make any promises or admissions about what pictures you have or don't have, or what your intentions are with respect to deleting anything. She'd be a fool to believe that the pictures were not backed up somewhere. But if she is this foolish and believes you have nothing to hold over her head, she'll go for the throat. 

This is the person who was looking for "dirt" on you a few days ago. Are two people required to officially call off the search for "dirt" as well?


----------



## manwithnoname

donesies said:


> she asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when i'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.





broken_in_brooklyn said:


> delete what pictures? The snapshots on your phone?


hell no!!!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> This is about her running to a lawyer or not. Whether or not it changes anything in the grand scheme of things, it can cost a lot of time and money if she does so, and he is much more likely to convince her to do it


Let her run to a lawyer. She can pay for it. She can pay your lawyer fees too. She signed the divorce and cashed both checks right? Done.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies , my 2 cents on the parents and the snapshots.

Write her parents a short polite letter explaining what happened. You knew something was not right with her and you but could not prove anything. On V day you came home early and of course she was nowhere to be found. You found the journal in plain sight where she professed her love of another man who apparently is married with 3 children. You confronted her, she insulted you then she moved out. 

Tell them in simple terms she left you no choice but to file for divorce and her actions since then have confirmed the marriage was dead, except she forgot to tell you before including another man in the marriage, in fact in your own home. Wish them the best, say you are sorry it came to this but she left you no choice. 

She asks for the pics again, tell her to get her parents to ask you with an explanation why on God's earth do you owe her any consideration? What lie is she trying to protect? That the other man is married?


----------



## 3putt

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies , my 2 cents on the parents and the snapshots.
> 
> Write her parents a short polite letter explaining what happened. You knew something was not right with her and you but could not prove anything. On V day you came home early and of course she was nowhere to be found. You found the journal in plain sight where she professed her love of another man who apparently is married with 3 children. You confronted her, she insulted you then she moved out.
> 
> Tell them in simple terms she left you no choice but to file for divorce and her actions since then have confirmed the marriage was dead, except she forgot to tell you before including another man in the marriage, in fact in your own home. Wish them the best, say you are sorry it came to this but she left you no choice.
> 
> She asks for the pics again, tell her to get her parents to ask you with an explanation why on God's earth do you owe her any consideration? What lie is she trying to protect? That the other man is married?


I like this idea for later, but until the ink is dry on the divorce papers (or unless he absolutely needs to) he should keep that ace up his sleeve as leverage against her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Agreed 3Putt, when the judge signs and clerk files. 

In the meantime ignore her.


----------



## Survivn13

donesies said:


> I do believe that she is scared that the journal entries will be made public. Maybe she is signing to try and keep ME happy.


She may be signing because she's feeling guilty now. She's going through trying times and will probably have mood swings, guilt and anger. A Lawyer will try to bring out that anger to get her to fight you, if that's still possible. Lawyers love a good fight. She sounds a lot like my ex from what you've written. The financial part may set you back but I'm guessing its nothing you won't overcome. The emotional part is the most difficult. Thinking about reconciliation is natural if you truly love the person. The sad part is you can't make them love you back. Keep doing the right things for you so you'll have no regrets when you look back at it all. Hang in there!


----------



## 3putt

Survivn13 said:


> She may be signing because she's feeling guilty now. She's going through trying times and will probably have mood swings, guilt and anger. A Lawyer will try to bring out that anger to get her to fight you, if that's still possible. Lawyers love a good fight. She sounds a lot like my ex from what you've written. The financial part may set you back but I'm guessing its nothing you won't overcome. The emotional part is the most difficult. Thinking about reconciliation is natural if you truly love the person. The sad part is you can't make them love you back. Keep doing the right things for you so you'll have no regrets when you look back at it all. Hang in there!


Nah, it ain't guilt. Not with this one. This one is all about capitulation in order to protect her reputation as much as possible.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Danger! Danger Will Robinson ..........(1960's "Lost In Space" reference for you young whippersnappers). I think you want to talk with her. I can understand that. I think you should be going dark with her. You are just going to get salt rubbed in your wounds. You are going to give her power over the situation which is what she wants. Remember, this traitor just went on a runaway **** fest with fatboy! 

But if you think you have to:

1. Ask her why she has been in contact with your brother trying to find dirt on you? Don't tell her how you know. She may think he told you and reconsider dealing with him again. She was trying to get dirt on you to force you to destroy evidence. 

2. If you destroy your evidence, you have very little to bargain with if this deal goes South. She knows you have read it all. The only reason to destroy them is to protect her reputation and make you out to be the bad guy, to the club, to her family, and to the OBS. Do you have multiple copies? Why would she think you didn't?

3. VAR. VAR. VAR. Camera? I wouldn't be caught dead alone with her now.

4. For God's sake, don't have sex with her!!! That can be viewed as forgiveness.

5. This sounds like Dad the Shark and a lawyer found out that she took your lowball offer and are trying to figure out a way to break the deal.

6. I still think you should go no contact, tell the OBS, tell the club, and tell her to GTFO! Strength is the only way out of this ****sandwich. Its the only thing that ever works.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

This whole debacle is new and really raw. In less than 2 weeks there has been DDAY, she moves out, divorce petition, signed divorce petition , cashed checks and she has signed an apartment lease. 

Donesies has had his heart ripped out of him with a parting comment of being called a a scumbag. Classy

He owes her nothing. She owes him an honest explanation. Of course he will never get it, highly doubtful anyway. 

Myself, I would never speak to her again. Her actions speak for themselves. There is no reason to meet.


----------



## eric1

She shouldn’t be talking to you about pictures. All requests pertaining to whatever is happening needs to go through your lawyer.


----------



## Suspicious1

Donesies

Did you read, take pics pf the entire journal?

There might be something you over look, something incredibly sensitive or down right embarrassing.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## ABHale

Don’t delete anything until the divorce is finished.


----------



## colingrant

Donesies - In the name of "staying ahead of the game", be emotionally/mentally prepared for her gently putting the word "reconciliation" on the table. Seems preposterous now, but it's coming in the not too distant future. Have to be ultra careful though, as it could present a false appeal simply because immediate pain relief and the beginning of a return to normalcy is gained. If you think about this before hand, it won't throw you for a loop. I don't get the impression you're at the mad stage yet. If you were, the question might actually humor or insult you.


----------



## manfromlamancha

You can do a ceremonial deleting of the pictures in return for her giving you everything you want in the split (but definitely keep copies of all pictures - NEVER delete it permanently).

ColinGrant's advice is sound - be prepared for her using fake reconciliation to try and soften you - do not fall for that.


----------



## Diana7

Taxman said:


> PS, Donesies:
> Her dad may be a shark, but in my experience, once a parent discovers that their child's infidelity has wrecked their marriage, they usually stop blaming the spouse. I have even counselled betrayed spouses to contact their in-laws. In one case, hubby told his FIL. The shlt hit the fan with his wife. She was livid. She never wanted mommy and daddy to know that she was a "dirty girl". They found out all right. He told his FIL, and told him about the numerous lovers. He then gave FIL their names and phone numbers. By the time he talked to his daughter, he had spoken with three other guys. Although he said it pained him to think of his daughter in highly unsavory terms, he told her that her husband was totally justified in divorcing her. He said that he supports her husband in this. He said that she should get professional help. He stopped speaking to her, and that was calculated by her ex. He knew that her parental relationship was the most important thing in her life. He effectively ruined that relationship. She was no longer the golden child. It weighed on her heavily. She tried to introduce her parents to new guys, to which they replied that they were no longer interested in who she slept with. That was her cross to bear. What was worse? They kept on good terms with her ex. They sent in engagement and wedding presents when he moved on. She had a conniption when she discovered her parents sent a thoughtful gift to him and his new wife on the announcement of her pregnancy. That cut her worse than anything. She never wanted children. It was essentially her foot out the door. When he went looking for a new partner, that was on the front burner, he wanted a child. The ex is still looking for Mr Rightnow, exhubby has a nice new wife, and a pretty daughter. I like happy endings.


Many parents wont support the BS even if their child cheated. That happened with my husband and his ex. He was still the bad guy even though she met another man and divorced him. I suspect it was because she told them a load of half truths and lies about it all.


----------



## SunCMars

donesies said:


> Very circuitously...have a friend who talks to him and that friend spoke to another friend who speaks to me...


telephone, telegraph, tell a woman....


----------



## Chaparral

You told her brother right? Is there any doubt he told his parents?


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.
> 
> 
> 
> Delete what pictures? The snapshots on your phone?
Click to expand...

 Yes, those pictures


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is about her running to a lawyer or not. Whether or not it changes anything in the grand scheme of things, it can cost a lot of time and money if she does so, and he is much more likely to convince her to do it
> 
> 
> 
> Let her run to a lawyer. She can pay for it. She can pay your lawyer fees too. She signed the divorce and cashed both checks right? Done.
Click to expand...

She signed the settlement agreement and divorce papers and all has been submitted to the courts. We have not had our court date for the judge to sign off yet though


----------



## Txquail

donesies said:


> Broken_in_Brooklyn said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.
> 
> 
> 
> Delete what pictures? The snapshots on your phone?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, those pictures
Click to expand...

Back the pictures up. Save them somewhere. 

Do not delete them. They are now what we call leverage. 

You keep those as a reminder to never take her back. If you choose to delete them, do so AFTER the divorce is final. Until its final the agreement can change


----------



## WilliamM

...


----------



## dubsey

never delete those photos. When she asks why, say 2 reasons:

1. Keep her from lying and rewriting history
2. Keep you from taking her back.


----------



## SadSamIAm

donesies said:


> She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.


Tell her you will meet and delete the pictures when the divorce is final. No reason to meet until then. Even then, I believe you should make a copy of the pictures before deleting them. 

She needs to know that you have this leverage. It will keep her from rewriting history to family and friends.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> She signed the settlement agreement and divorce papers and all has been submitted to the courts. We have not had our court date for the judge to sign off yet though


Just because she signed an agreement doesn't mean the judge will agree to it or grant a divorce based off it. 

You keep those pictures. Tell her you are keeping those pics until you have that divorce decree in your hand listing all the things he two of you agreed to. DO NOT let her bully you into deleting those pics.


----------



## Malaise

Don't forget to send Daddy dearest copies of the pics.


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> You told her brother right? Is there any doubt he told his parents?


He probably DID NOT


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> Just because she signed an agreement doesn't mean the judge will agree to it or grant a divorce based off it.
> 
> You keep those pictures. Tell her you are keeping those pics until you have that divorce decree in your hand listing all the things he two of you agreed to. DO NOT let her bully you into deleting those pics.


Correct...and this is really a shame and the thing that scares me the most. Two grown adults come to an agreement on THEIR MARRIAGE based on THEIR wants and needs and a judge refuses to sign it. All I can do is wait and hope for a reasonable judge.


----------



## Txquail

donesies said:


> Chaparral said:
> 
> 
> 
> You told her brother right? Is there any doubt he told his parents?
> 
> 
> 
> He probably DID NOT
Click to expand...

Email pics to father in law


----------



## dubsey

I disagree. Don't send the pics anywhere. Download and make a second/backup copy. You hold them in case you need them. If you give them up, she has no reason not to fight you on anything she could. All the bad news is already out there.


----------



## eric1

Keep the pics above her head until you get 100% settlement. You want her in statis until then. After you get everything worked out then send them to whoever you want to see them. But do it tactfully


----------



## intuitionoramiwrong

Does the OMW know yet?


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Do not sent the pictures to anyone. Do not admit you have them, do not comment on their disposition. Do not do anything that will put you in legal jeopardy, even if it would feel satisfying. Do not communicate with your wife unless absolutely necessary. If you must communicate, do it in written form with just the most basic information. She is looking to exploit anything you say--any promise, any admission, any confession. 

If anything, have your attorney write a letter. Tell her that it's come to your attention that she's been questioning relatives of yours for information that can be used to discredit you. Your attorney can politely remind her that the dissemination of any slander or unsubstantiated allegations on her part will be met with criminal charges, and/or a civil suit resulting in monetary damages. That ought to put a kibosh on her fishing expeditions.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.


Don’t do it, Doc.

Even backing up the pics and then meeting up with her to delete them from your phone is a bad idea, as agreeing to delete them — especially in writing — and then effectively not doing it could land you in hot water.

Next time she asks to meet up simply tell her you have no plans to see her prior to meeting in court to finalize the divorce.

Don’t respond to anything addressing the pics at all.


----------



## TeddieG

eric1 said:


> Keep the pics above her head until you get 100% settlement. You want her in statis until then. After you get everything worked out then send them to whoever you want to see them. But do it tactfully


Yes, this, and what others like @Gus Polinski have said. Not only could sending the pics make you look vindictive or create problems, it is good to preserve the mystery, and let her wonder what you've got. If you release them, say, to her family, she can explain, defend, obfuscate, and you look like a jerk wanting revenge. Stay calm and cool, detach, step back, pretend to (or actually really) not give a **** what she's worried about.


----------



## TeddieG

eric1 said:


> Keep the pics above her head until you get 100% settlement. You want her in statis until then. After you get everything worked out then send them to whoever you want to see them. But do it tactfully


Yes, this, and what others like @GusPolinski have said. Not only could sending the pics make you look vindictive or create problems, it is good to preserve the mystery, and let her wonder what you've got. If you release them, say, to her family, she can explain, defend, obfuscate, and you look like a jerk wanting revenge. Stay calm and cool, detach, step back, pretend to (or actually really) not give a **** what she's worried about.


----------



## TeddieG

eric1 said:


> Keep the pics above her head until you get 100% settlement. You want her in statis until then. After you get everything worked out then send them to whoever you want to see them. But do it tactfully


Yes, this, and what others like @GusPolinski have said. Not only could sending the pics make you look vindictive or create problems, it is good to preserve the mystery, and let her wonder what you've got. If you release them, say, to her family, she can explain, defend, obfuscate, and you look like a jerk wanting revenge. Stay calm and cool, detach, step back, pretend to (or actually really) not give a **** what she's worried about. 

Somehow I posted this twice. Sorry. I'm tired. Long day yesterday. Maybe a moderator can delete one of these; I can't figure out how to do it.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> I do believe that she is scared that the journal entries will be made public. Maybe she is signing to try and keep ME happy.


Could be as your stbxw has asked to met and see the pics are deleted. Certainly when that is done she will change her tune on the agreement. 

Don't delete a damn thing. None of it. You control the storyline with these pics.


----------



## GusPolinski

Yeswecan said:


> Could be as your stbxw has asked to met and see the pics are deleted. Certainly when that is done she will change her tune on the agreement.
> 
> Don't delete a damn thing. None of it. You control the storyline with these pics.


100% correct.

Delete the pics once the divorce is done — and done on YOUR terms.

You can’t TELL her that, though, because it would come across as extortion.


----------



## Yeswecan

GusPolinski said:


> 100% correct.
> 
> Delete the pics once the divorce is done — and done on YOUR terms.
> 
> You can’t TELL her that, though, because it would come across as extortion.


Let's just call it, "Dragging your feet" for now.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> She asked to meet up again to delete the pictures. I said we could find a time when I'm not so busy. I found out that she signed a lease on an apartment. That's it.


You are a man of your word and it may be difficult to go back on what you said you would do, however, when you make a foolish vow (or foolish statement or promise), it is important to take responsibility and renounce the foolish vow. It is your personal responsibility to take care of yourself, not at the expense of others, but in honor and integrity. It is honorable and proper for you to not allow yourself to be taken advantage of by someone who is selfish and wants to cause you harm. Your stbx is unfortunately one of those people.

This is why so many people are cautioning you not to give her those photos or to delete them. It is perfectly okay for you to say that you have changed your mind. No explanation. No further information. “I changed my mind.” That’s it.

As others have said, make sure you have back-up copies of those photos stored elsewhere. It would be good to store one at work or have them on a flash drive in a safe deposit box and another copy with a trusted person, such as your attorney or a close relative.


----------



## GusPolinski

I’d definitely give copies to the attorney.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

No no, don't give copies to the attorney. If he's ever asked to testify on whether the photos exist, he'll have to testify honestly. It's better to go silent on the photos and neither confirm nor deny their existence. As others have said, agree to meet with your wife only after the divorce is final, just to move things along. After the divorce is final, you have no obligation to meet with her.


----------



## Cynthia

Tatsuhiko said:


> No no, don't give copies to the attorney. If he's ever asked to testify on whether the photos exist, he'll have to testify honestly. It's better to go silent on the photos and neither confirm nor deny their existence. As others have said, agree to meet with your wife only after the divorce is final, just to move things along. After the divorce is final, you have no obligation to meet with her.


An attorney cannot testify against a client. Anything you tell your attorney in regards to you case is protected by law under attorney client privileged. If you are on trial for murder, you can tell your attorney the whole story, including details of how you did it, and that attorney has to keep your secret. They don't have to continue to represent you, but they also are not allowed to tell anyone what you said, including the court.


----------



## 3putt

CynthiaDe said:


> An attorney cannot testify against a client. Anything you tell your attorney in regards to you case is protected by law under attorney client privileged. If you are on trial for murder, you can tell your attorney the whole story, including details of how you did it, and that attorney has to keep your secret. They don't have to continue to represent you, but they also are not allowed to tell anyone what you said, including the court.


Yeah, they still take that kinda stuff rather seriously.


----------



## bandit.45

Donsies...I want you to practice something every night for an hour. Just repeat the following over and over: 

"Go f_ck yourself..."

"Go f_ck yourself..."

"Go f_ck yourself..."

"Go f_ck yourself..."

Practice this nightly and it should be your go-to response to any hairbrained demand she makes. It feels really good when you just relax and let it flow over your tongue.


----------



## Suspicious1

bandit.45 said:


> Donsies...I want you to practice something every night for an hour. Just repeat the following over and over:
> 
> "Go f_ck yourself..."
> 
> "Go f_ck yourself..."
> 
> "Go f_ck yourself..."
> 
> "Go f_ck yourself..."
> 
> Practice this nightly and it should be your go-to response to any hairbrained demand she makes. It feels really good when you just relax and let it flow over your tongue.


I keep saying this but I really wish there was this type of support when I was going through it. Could had use those words of wisdom.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Tatsuhiko

CynthiaDe said:


> An attorney cannot testify against a client. Anything you tell your attorney in regards to you case is protected by law under attorney client privileged. If you are on trial for murder, you can tell your attorney the whole story, including details of how you did it, and that attorney has to keep your secret. They don't have to continue to represent you, but they also are not allowed to tell anyone what you said, including the court.


No. This is far more complex than what you've said. Whether things you tell your attorney are covered by attorney-client privilege is not relevant to this discussion. We're discussing the requirement to produce of _documents_ shared with an attorney, or depositions regarding their existence. There is no reason for him to give the documents to his attorney or even make him aware of those documents.


----------



## Cynthia

Tatsuhiko said:


> No. This is far more complex than what you've said. Whether things you tell your attorney are covered by attorney-client privilege is not relevant to this discussion. We're discussing the requirement to produce of _documents_ shared with an attorney, or depositions regarding their existence. There is no reason for him to give the documents to his attorney or even make him aware of those documents.


Good point. Thanks for clearing that up.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. There sure are a lot of jailhouse lawyers around here. Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody's got one. Communicate everything through the lawyer. Tell him about her desire to meet and destroy the photos and see what he says. 

2. Ask her to communicate through the lawyer from now on. Be a ghost. I know you want closure but right now, but she is still all about herself and she will only hurt you more. 

3. Have you gotten your locks changed?

4. Purchased a VAR to be kept on yourself at all times?

5. PI contacted the O.M.W. yet or at least found her contact information? 

6. Doc, stay strong. When this all clears, you want to be remembered for your strength, your decisiveness, and the class with which you handled this whole thing. When her life implodes and you are living large, it will eat her alive. When she sees you out with your wife and kids having a great life, believe me, then the remorse will come. Stay the course.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

The pictures, the pictures. F the pictures. 

Offer to sell her the pictures for the total cost of the alimony plus 18% compounded after you sign the last alimony check. 

Until then just ignore her. She has a lot of nerve demanding pictures after the way she treated you.


----------



## Windwalker

OP,

This right hear is what your wife should hear from you. Listen close.....






Wait for it.......









Did you hear it?



I think you get my point.

Bandit said it best.
Keep repeating, go **** yourself.
learn it live it.

The only thing your wife deserves from you is taillights, rocks, and the middle finger!


----------



## Graywolf2

If I were your XWW what would blow my mind is that all I had to do was have sex with you occasionally and the divorce would have never happened. 

I agree with you that she’s more upset that she lost her best friend than that she lost her husband. But you can show your best friend a good time every once in awhile if only because you like to see them happy.

Your wife has been able to charm people and get her way for her entire life. She was more upset by her boyfriend dumping her than by the news that her sister had cancer. Now you have dumped her and she can’t take it. Her world has turned upside down. 

She has enough insight to know that she has used her looks to get her way. That’s why she keeps bringing up that her weight will make her powerless in the future. 

I remember Kathleen Turner (from the 1984 movie Romancing the Stone) saying in an interview that “Every man in the room wanted me.” I saw her in the 2008 movie Marley & Me. We have all gotten older but time was especially unkind to her. I wonder how she handles that. Maybe it better to have never been a 10. That way you develop other skills.



ButtPunch said:


> I believe this was meant for Cromer's thread.


^^^^^You are very wise ButtPunch. ^^^^^^ My computer froze and then I went to the wrong section


----------



## ButtPunch

Graywolf2 said:


> If I were your XWW what would blow my mind is that all I had to do was have sex with you occasionally and the divorce would have never happened.
> 
> I agree with you that she’s more upset that she lost her best friend than that she lost her husband. But you can show your best friend a good time every once in awhile if only because you like to see them happy.
> 
> Your wife has been able to charm people and get her way for her entire life. She was more upset by her boyfriend dumping her than by the news that her sister had cancer. Now you have dumped her and she can’t take it. Her world has turned upside down.
> 
> She has enough insight to know that she has used her looks to get her way. That’s why she keeps bringing up that her weight will make her powerless in the future.
> 
> I remember Kathleen Turner (from the 1984 movie Romancing the Stone) saying in an interview that “Every man in the room wanted me.” I saw her in the 2008 movie Marley & Me. We have all gotten older but time was especially unkind to her. I wonder how she handles that. Maybe it better to have never been a 10. That way you develop other skills.


I believe this was meant for Cromer's thread.


----------



## Suspicious1

Graywolf2 said:


> If I were your XWW what would blow my mind is that all I had to do was have sex with you occasionally and the divorce would have never happened.
> 
> I agree with you that she’s more upset that she lost her best friend than that she lost her husband. But you can show your best friend a good time every once in awhile if only because you like to see them happy.
> 
> Your wife has been able to charm people and get her way for her entire life. She was more upset by her boyfriend dumping her than by the news that her sister had cancer. Now you have dumped her and she can’t take it. Her world has turned upside down.
> 
> She has enough insight to know that she has used her looks to get her way. That’s why she keeps bringing up that her weight will make her powerless in the future.
> 
> I remember Kathleen Turner (from the 1984 movie Romancing the Stone) saying in an interview that “Every man in the room wanted me.” I saw her in the 2008 movie Marley & Me. We have all gotten older but time was especially unkind to her. I wonder how she handles that. Maybe it better to have never been a 10. That way you develop other skills.


I know we're going Off thread, Off Topic here, but you're so right about what you're saying regarding good looks when you have it.

I always seen it as a decent the older you got the fall would be much longer to get to the bottom. As to someone that is not good looking the decent isn't as bad and might look not as bad when hitting rock bottom or just gracefully as they say.

My ex which is bi racial, spanish and Japanese was incredibly hot especially when she lost weight from to kids back to back.
A good friend of mine who immediate saw she was swimming in her new found glory and attention tild her, enjoy it as it does not last long and will hurt you all the more when you souly depend on getting things fading beauty! I'm paraphrasing here, I did not have the mind frame to really cared at the time but got the gist  besides I heard it from my ex as well she was piss by my friends remarks lol. 
Anyway she's not looking too hot these days, I think her misery has edged out her face or something not sure what's going on there.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 1. There sure are a lot of jailhouse lawyers around here. Opinions are like belly buttons, everybody's got one. Communicate everything through the lawyer. Tell him about her desire to meet and destroy the photos and see what he says.
> 
> 2. Ask her to communicate through the lawyer from now on. Be a ghost. I know you want closure but right now, but she is still all about herself and she will only hurt you more.
> 
> 3. Have you gotten your locks changed?
> 
> 4. Purchased a VAR to be kept on yourself at all times?
> 
> 5. PI contacted the O.M.W. yet or at least found her contact information?
> 
> 6. Doc, stay strong. When this all clears, you want to be remembered for your strength, your decisiveness, and the class with which you handled this whole thing. When her life implodes and you are living large, it will eat her alive. When she sees you out with your wife and kids having a great life, believe me, then the remorse will come. Stay the course.


Lock-smith comes tomorrow. I have a VAR app - seems to work pretty well. I have not spoke to a PI because I met someone who knows the OMW and is going to get her #

On the last point, I feel so much better now that I did when I started this thread. You guys have really been amazing.

Can I make a donation to your forum?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Great to hear to state that you are feeling better since this started. 

You can be a forum supporter by donating, yes. The best support on top of that is helping others by giving your advice. 

You did the right thing by filing immediately and staying strong and resolute. There are people here who suffer and bleed for years. They need advice from people like you.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Lock-smith comes tomorrow. I have a VAR app - seems to work pretty well. I have not spoke to a PI because I met someone who knows the OMW and is going to get her #
> 
> On the last point, I feel so much better now that I did when I started this thread. You guys have really been amazing.
> 
> Can I make a donation to your forum?


Great news that you're feeling better. You're doing a great job actually. Your wife helped by leaving the way she did though.You were spared. Typically, the WS denies, gas lights, deceives, creeps and manipulates the BS which causes tremendous confusion with a BS who's already traumatized and can't think straight. Her clean break saved you from weeks or months of emotional abuse and anguish. Admittedly, it's a bad analogy, but it's akin to taking a bullet in the heart versus getting tortured.


----------



## donesies

colingrant said:


> Great news that you're feeling better. You're doing a great job actually. Your wife helped by leaving the way she did though.You were spared. Typically, the WS denies, gas lights, deceives, creeps and manipulates the BS which causes tremendous confusion with a BS who's already traumatized and can't think straight. Her clean break saved you from weeks or months of emotional abuse and anguish. Admittedly, it's a bad analogy, but it's akin to taking a bullet in the heart versus getting tortured.


Yeah - aside from the cheating thing, she did show some grace


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

cowardly grace


----------



## skerzoid

Can I make a donation to your forum?[/QUOTE]

How about making a check out to the O.C.R.F. (Old Coaches Retirement Fund)? :wink2:


----------



## skerzoid

donesies:

Doc,

I don't know if you have looked at survivinginfidelity.com but they have some general advice forums there that you might want to take a look at as far as strategies and tactics to use with a wayward spouse. Here are a couple of addresses you might take a look at if you haven't done so already. There is a wealth of information there also.

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Great Posts for Newbies to Read

SurvivingInfidelity.com - Tactical Primer


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> Lock-smith comes tomorrow. I have a VAR app - seems to work pretty well. I have not spoke to a PI because I met someone who knows the OMW and is going to get her #
> 
> On the last point, I feel so much better now that I did when I started this thread. You guys have really been amazing.
> 
> Can I make a donation to your forum?


Hopefully you won't need a VAR since you aren't communicating with her anymore. You do not owe her any communication. You have already communicated to her everything you need to.

I'm glad you are going to let the OM's wife know.

There is an option to be a forum supporter. Last I renewed my membership it was $15. Here's the link: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/payments.php


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Keep the VAR in your pocket as she may ambush you. There have been many instances of folks who were surprised by their wayward and the wayward made claims against them. Just as an insurance against such things, I would keep the thing handy. Also, most cell phones have voice recording or even video recording that could be turned on to use in a pinch.


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lock-smith comes tomorrow. I have a VAR app - seems to work pretty well. I have not spoke to a PI because I met someone who knows the OMW and is going to get her #
> 
> On the last point, I feel so much better now that I did when I started this thread. You guys have really been amazing.
> 
> Can I make a donation to your forum?
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully you won't need a VAR since you aren't communicating with her anymore. You do not owe her any communication. You have already communicated to her everything you need to.
> 
> I'm glad you are going to let the OM's wife know.
> 
> There is an option to be a forum supporter. Last I renewed my membership it was $15. Here's the link: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/payments.php
Click to expand...

Happy to do this. Thank you.

Once I have a good handle on this whole thing, I will be happy to contribute to newbies. Although many of you have said that I’ve been sheltered from a lot of what others have gone through.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> Happy to do this. Thank you.
> 
> Once I have a good handle on this whole thing, I will be happy to contribute to newbies. Although many of you have said that I’ve been sheltered from a lot of what others have gone through.


 The only reason you have been "sheltered" is because you kicked ass in a lightspeed fashion and that saved you from a metric ****-ton of grief and pain that you would have had if you played the pick me dance, like so many do. Believe me, you have plenty to offer.


----------



## threelittlestars

you have been lucky, but you have still done all the right things. You have a unicorn situation. Though it may not exactly feel amazing, but this could be SO SO SOOOOOO much worse. 

You should stick around and help those who are not as decisive.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Yeah - aside from the cheating thing, she did show some grace


Sad part is, she is bound to take these bad behaviors into her future relationships and lay waste to more unsuspecting men like yourself.


----------



## donesies

Honestly, I’m feeling a bit down today. Still have some worries:

Thinking about my STBXW with another man suuuuucks. I know you guys think this is weakness, but this was the love of my life up until just a couple weeks ago.

She’s not waivering. She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.

We are a few weeks from finalizing. I keep getting worried that the judge will not sign off even through both parties have agreed and money has been exchanged and we have otherwise both acted in accordance with the contract.

Found out through the grapevine that she traded in her car for a new one. Spending that money already...but I honestly think it’s so that I won’t know where she lives or otherwise come looking for her.


----------



## bandit.45

The mind movies are totally normal. Every BS goes through them. They do not mean you are weak. Just processing the pain. 

No one here thinks you are weak.


----------



## Cromer

You are NOT weak. Trust me. I am happy that you didn't just dodge a bullet, but a nuclear artillery round. At least you won't be looking back after 33+ years and realizing that you were living a lie the whole time. It will get better and you will be thankful.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> Honestly, I’m feeling a bit down today. Still have some worries:
> 
> Thinking about my STBXW with another man suuuuucks. I know you guys think this is weakness, but this was the love of my life up until just a couple weeks ago.
> 
> She’s not waivering. She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.
> 
> We are a few weeks from finalizing. I keep getting worried that the judge will not sign off even through both parties have agreed and money has been exchanged and we have otherwise both acted in accordance with the contract.
> 
> Found out through the grapevine that she traded in her car for a new one. Spending that money already...but I honestly think it’s so that I won’t know where she lives or otherwise come looking for her.


It's normal to have those kinds of thoughts. It hasn't been very long since your whole personal life blew up. When you start having those thoughts, take a hold of them and focus on something productive. Maybe work on memorizing something that is uplifting. My grandfather had a ton of poetry memorized. He used to recite it to us when we were kids. I memorize scripture to keep my mind centered on the positive.

It's best that you do not engage in conversations about what she is or is not doing now. The only thing I would recommend that is remotely about her is to get a hold of the OM's wife asap and then let it go. Put her in your rear-view mirror asap. I know it's hard, but with her out of the house and the divorce almost finished, you can do it. I know there are things you need to process, but don't let it overtake you. If it's not moving you forward, it's not worth thinking about. All of your processing should be moving you forward.


----------



## DTO

To this, I'll add that it's well-understood that doctors have very demanding careers; you'd have to live under a rock to not know this.

My point is that she knew what she was getting into by marrying a doctor. Don't buy the B.S. that she had no idea you would be away so much, you failed her, etc. There's a decent chance you were targeted for your income and she though she could play around but got caught.



Yeswecan said:


> And, to be sure, this is not your fault. Sure, you are very busy at work and perhaps the attention was lacking but...a spouse should advise and work on the issue and not make a piss poor CHOICE by starting an affair. That is not the answer to the marital issue at hand.
> 
> Not your fault sir. None of it. Poor choice on your W part is the problem.


----------



## DTO

Bananapeel said:


> Get recommendations and hire the BEST divorce attorney in the area. Then don't discuss things with your wife, just file for divorce and have her served. The less time she has to process what is going on and the more emotional it become for her, the less able she will be to think straight and fight you on it.


Definitely get a high-quality attorney. But DO NOT get a shark. There are attorneys out there who will let things get ugly and indulge an urge to fight, at hundreds of dollars per hour. The good ones will tell you "this is worth fighting over, and that is not".


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Honestly, I’m feeling a bit down today. Still have some worries:
> 
> Thinking about my STBXW with another man suuuuucks. I know you guys think this is weakness, but this was the love of my life up until just a couple weeks ago.
> 
> She’s not waivering. She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.
> 
> We are a few weeks from finalizing. I keep getting worried that the judge will not sign off even through both parties have agreed and money has been exchanged and we have otherwise both acted in accordance with the contract.
> 
> Found out through the grapevine that she traded in her car for a new one. Spending that money already...but I honestly think it’s so that I won’t know where she lives or otherwise come looking for her.


These thoughts are normal and they make you anything but weak. You are grieving the death of your marriage, perfectly normal. 

You have no idea what she is thinking so of course you think the worse. That is normal. That will lesson quickly over time. 

Know this though, her fantasy world is going to come crashing down once you expose to the OM's wife. Your ex wife may have had an easy out at your expense but her affair partner has a wife with 3 kids. The OMs wife is probably going to publicly let your ex have it in no uncertain terms. If the OMs wife kicks him out he will be living in a van while paying child support for three kids. Possibly alimony too. Your ex can support him. Watch that money drain quickly. Easy come , easy go. If the OM's wife does not kick him out he will be forced to dump your wife. Then your wife will know the meaning of being a side piece of a. An easy lay. "Nice while it lasted sweetie but I have to return to my wife".

Just sit on the sidelines with a giant bag of pop corn and laugh out loud. 

The judge will sign. The equity awarded her and the alimony is not so egregiously out of bounds were the judge would raise an eyebrow. Your attorney saw to that. This is getting rubber stamped. Judges have better things to do than interfere in uncontested divorces with no children involved where both parties have agreed to an outcome. You offered her a low ball easy exit. She took it. She signed the papers and cashed the checks. That is acceptance of the offer and she has started spending the money. Done, finished.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

There are those that have a theory that a WS always "affairs down", meaning that they choose someone who is clearly _less_ than their spouse. I think there is a lot of truth to it. It's not a reflection on you or whether you were good enough. All this guy did is provide her with a bunch of validation and affirmation. Told her how beautiful and smart she was, the way her own family never did. It never mattered what he looked like or how much money he made as long as he kept saying the right things. But like all veneers, this one will wear off too over time. In a year she'll be broken up with him, either because of his wife, or because the entire foundation of their relationship was always based on bullshot. Your wife will burn through her settlement very quickly and has set herself up for a miserable life. Not your problem anymore.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> She’s not waivering.


That’s a good thing, so count your blessings.



donesies said:


> She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.


You’re not _less_ — she’s broken.


----------



## lucy999

Sir, you are anything but weak. Weak would be doing the Pick Me Dance. 

She is not of your caliber. She is flash and cash - no substance.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. You wanted her to be the mother of your children. She couldn't and it broke her. 

2. You would have taken a bullet for her. She knows it, but doesn't care now. 

3. You wanted only the best for her. She knows it, but doesn't care now. 

4. She is with someone that is beneath you. She knows it, but doesn't care now.

5. She is broken beyond your ability to fix her. She knows it, but doesn't care now. 

6. You would take her back, even now. She knows it, but doesn't care now.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Honestly, I’m feeling a bit down today. Still have some worries:
> 
> Thinking about my STBXW with another man suuuuucks. I know you guys think this is weakness, but this was the love of my life up until just a couple weeks ago.
> 
> She’s not waivering. She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.
> 
> We are a few weeks from finalizing. I keep getting worried that the judge will not sign off even through both parties have agreed and money has been exchanged and we have otherwise both acted in accordance with the contract.
> 
> Found out through the grapevine that she traded in her car for a new one. Spending that money already...but I honestly think it’s so that I won’t know where she lives or otherwise come looking for her.


This is normal it is not weakness. 

It is going to take 3 to 4 months to start feeling anything like normal. 

Remember what your wife said to you. She checked out over a year ago. 

This is all new to you. You didn’t stop loving your STBXW over a year ago. You still love her and it is just starting to sink in that it is over between the two of you. You just can’t always stop loving someone like you flip a switch. 

This will get better with time.


----------



## Marc878

You don't have full clarity yet or you'd be glad you're getting away from this.


----------



## turnera

donesies said:


> Taking care of my physical health is no problem. I have one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone I know. However, mental health: what do you suggest I do there?


I haven't read to the end yet, but I had to stop here. 

You're a specialty physician. I work at a teaching hospital for the chair of a department. I get it. Your work is your life. You work 60 to 80 hours a week. You expect your home, your bills, your clothes, your everything, to be done, ready, and waiting for you when you get home and spend 2 hours a day with your wife before you go to bed. During which you're probably on your computer or phone. 

Then you are in 'one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone' you know. Meaning you spend AT LEAST one hour a day - but probably two or three hours a day - exercising.

You're proud of your exercising. You probably look amazing, and you enjoy looking amazing. You may even be enjoying the looking amazing around all the female coworkers. I know what it's like; I work in it every day. The tv shows pretty much have it right.

So, I'll ask you: what was your WIFE'S life like?

I'm curious to see your answer.


----------



## turnera

donesies said:


> Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner, but *those things took tremendous dedication, commitment, and hard-work*. Having these qualities put me on this path to good health, wealth, and security. It isn’t like I won the lottery and had it all dumped in my lap.
> 
> *I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities.* Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?
> 
> Clearly I’m not meeting her emotional needs the way this guy does, but it seemed like I was doing all the right things. I was trying to anyway.
> 
> *My work/life balance has already improved substantially in the last couple months. I can give her more attention*, but now I have to wonder if I even want to.


So. Let me first ask you - have you ever read a book called His Needs Her Needs? I really suggest you do - as soon as you can. 

Because it's going to explain what happened to you. Here's the bottom line. Women are not men. You think she wanted a husband she could admire. That's a man's trait. One of nearly all men's highest needs is ADMIRATION. 

YOU need to be admired. YOU want your wife to admire you.

But that's not what SHE needs. 

Women's highest needs are usually conversation, honesty, and time together. Which ones did you meet?

So when you wonder what she saw in this dumpy, ugly guy, it's pretty simple - she got conversation, honesty, and time together. All the things you didn't give her because you were too busy building yourself into a man you could (oops, I mean SHE could) admire.


----------



## turnera

donesies said:


> Honestly, I’m feeling a bit down today.
> 
> She’s not waivering. She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.


Of course she does. HE makes her feel valued, important, and worth spending time with.

You? Not so much. Even your exercising was more important than spending time with her. And she didn't even have a child out of this to make it worthwhile. She had herself. Alone. While you were out doing what makes YOU feel good for at least 15-18 hours a day.


----------



## turnera

DTO said:


> To this, I'll add that it's well-understood that doctors have very demanding careers; you'd have to live under a rock to not know this.
> 
> My point is that she knew what she was getting into by marrying a doctor. Don't buy the B.S. that she had no idea you would be away so much, you failed her, etc. There's a decent chance you were targeted for your income and she though she could play around but got caught.


Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody in their 20s really understands what such a career means.

More importantly, on TOP of that, he decided that he needed to basically become an IronMan-level athlete. Which doesn't happen in 4 or 5 hours a week.


----------



## Elizabeth001

turnera said:


> Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody in their 20s really understands what such a career means.
> 
> 
> 
> More importantly, on TOP of that, he decided that he needed to basically become an IronMan-level athlete. Which doesn't happen in 4 or 5 hours a week.




Don’t forget the community service. The hours don’t add up for me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skerzoid

Elizabeth001 said:


> Don’t forget the community service. The hours don’t add up for me.
> 
> 
> 
> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody in their 20s really understands what such a career means.
> 
> More importantly, on TOP of that, he decided that he needed to basically become an IronMan-level athlete. Which doesn't happen in 4 or 5 hours a week.
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Your criticisms of the OP may explain why a WW was unhappy with her marriage. It does not explain how she decided to threaten to end two marriages and destroy the lives of three young children in order to meet her needs.
> 
> 2. MC, IC, threatening Separation, Actual Separation, or Divorce all are preferable to cheating on a spouse with no warning.
> 
> 3. Her response to being served "Why, why, why?" & "Couldn't we have talked about this first?" seem to indicate that she did not want her husband to know what was happening.
> 
> 4. Her rage at him discovering her journal seems to indicate that she wanted the marriage to continue, with her filling her needs while maintaining the status quo with Donesies, & allowing her to cake eat with another woman's husband.
Click to expand...


----------



## Elizabeth001

skerzoid said:


> Elizabeth001 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget the community service. The hours don’t add up for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.Your criticisms of the OP may explain why a WW was unhappy with her marriage. It does not explain how she decided to threaten to end two marriages and destroy the lives of three young children in order to meet her unmet needs.
> 
> 
> 
> 2. MC, IC, threatening Separation, Actual Separation, or Divorce all are preferable to cheating on a spouse with no warning.
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Her response to being served "Why, why, why!" & "Couldn't we have talked about this first!" seem to indicate that she did not want her husband to know what was happening.
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Her rage at him discovering her journal seems to indicate that she wanted the marriage to continue, with her filling her needs while maintaining the status quo with Donesies, & allowing her to cake eat with another woman's husband.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. But I hope he takes a different approach going forward.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...


----------



## Wolfman1968

turnera said:


> Of course she does. HE makes her feel valued, important, and worth spending time with.
> 
> You? Not so much. Even your exercising was more important than spending time with her. And she didn't even have a child out of this to make it worthwhile. She had herself. Alone. While you were out doing what makes YOU feel good for at least 15-18 hours a day.



No, he was out working like a dog for 15-18 hours a day (minus his exercise) to keep her in a high lifestyle---including the club where she met lover-boy. 

That's why she's going to be entitled to have alimony on the screwed up system we have, isn't it? "Maintain her in the style in which she has become accustomed" is the typical wording. 

THAT'S part of why he feels like a chump, and why he feels depressed.


----------



## VladDracul

Its the f-ing he gets for the f-ing he got.


----------



## Diana7

ABHale said:


> This is normal it is not weakness.
> 
> It is going to take 3 to 4 months to start feeling anything like normal.
> 
> Remember what your wife said to you. She checked out over a year ago.
> 
> This is all new to you. You didn’t stop loving your STBXW over a year ago. You still love her and it is just starting to sink in that it is over between the two of you. You just can’t always stop loving someone like you flip a switch.
> 
> This will get better with time.


I would say more like years than just a few months.


----------



## donesies

turnera said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Taking care of my physical health is no problem. I have one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone I know. However, mental health: what do you suggest I do there?
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't read to the end yet, but I had to stop here.
> 
> You're a specialty physician. I work at a teaching hospital for the chair of a department. I get it. Your work is your life. You work 60 to 80 hours a week. You expect your home, your bills, your clothes, your everything, to be done, ready, and waiting for you when you get home and spend 2 hours a day with your wife before you go to bed. During which you're probably on your computer or phone.
> 
> Then you are in 'one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone' you know. Meaning you spend AT LEAST one hour a day - but probably two or three hours a day - exercising.
> 
> You're proud of your exercising. You probably look amazing, and you enjoy looking amazing. You may even be enjoying the looking amazing around all the female coworkers. I know what it's like; I work in it every day. The tv shows pretty much have it right.
> 
> So, I'll ask you: what was your WIFE'S life like?
> 
> I'm curious to see your answer.
Click to expand...

1. I work less than 60 hours a week a have weekends off

2. I workout 30 minutes a day, but HARD

3. I workout when she is still at work (she works 2-7pm)

4. I thought she was happy - apparently not


----------



## donesies

turnera said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I am a doctor and in shape and a high earner, but *those things took tremendous dedication, commitment, and hard-work*. Having these qualities put me on this path to good health, wealth, and security. It isn’t like I won the lottery and had it all dumped in my lap.
> 
> *I always believed that a woman would strongly desire a man who had such qualities.* Furthermore, I would think that they would want a husband that they would be proud of. So it is hard to understand why my wife would choose the guy with NONE of these qualities?
> 
> Clearly I’m not meeting her emotional needs the way this guy does, but it seemed like I was doing all the right things. I was trying to anyway.
> 
> *My work/life balance has already improved substantially in the last couple months. I can give her more attention*, but now I have to wonder if I even want to.
> 
> 
> 
> So. Let me first ask you - have you ever read a book called His Needs Her Needs? I really suggest you do - as soon as you can.
> 
> Because it's going to explain what happened to you. Here's the bottom line. Women are not men. You think she wanted a husband she could admire. That's a man's trait. One of nearly all men's highest needs is ADMIRATION.
> 
> YOU need to be admired. YOU want your wife to admire you.
> 
> But that's not what SHE needs.
> 
> Women's highest needs are usually conversation, honesty, and time together. Which ones did you meet?
> 
> So when you wonder what she saw in this dumpy, ugly guy, it's pretty simple - she got conversation, honesty, and time together. All the things you didn't give her because you were too busy building yourself into a man you could (oops, I mean SHE could) admire.
Click to expand...

Ironically, I have bought this book already at someone else’s suggestion.

If I’m understanding you correctly, women ARE NOT looking for a successful, good-looking man with a stable job?

Yes, I gave her conversation, honesty, and time together. 

The “problem” is that I work 8-5 and she works 2-7pm. She had all morning until 2pm off - that’s the window period that OM stepped in. Do you suggest I alter my hours to not go into work until 2 so that I can be there all the time and deter OM’s opportunity??


----------



## donesies

turnera said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly, I’m feeling a bit down today.
> 
> She’s not waivering. She wants out for this other out of shape, fake, broke, loser. Makes me feel like less of a man that she would choose him.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course she does. HE makes her feel valued, important, and worth spending time with.
> 
> You? Not so much. Even your exercising was more important than spending time with her. And she didn't even have a child out of this to make it worthwhile. She had herself. Alone. While you were out doing what makes YOU feel good for at least 15-18 hours a day.
Click to expand...

Once again, my exercising took place when she was working...not a contributing factor


----------



## donesies

turnera said:


> DTO said:
> 
> 
> 
> To this, I'll add that it's well-understood that doctors have very demanding careers; you'd have to live under a rock to not know this.
> 
> My point is that she knew what she was getting into by marrying a doctor. Don't buy the B.S. that she had no idea you would be away so much, you failed her, etc. There's a decent chance you were targeted for your income and she though she could play around but got caught.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody in their 20s really understands what such a career means.
> 
> More importantly, on TOP of that, he decided that he needed to basically become an IronMan-level athlete. Which doesn't happen in 4 or 5 hours a week.
Click to expand...

Your assumptions regarding my exercising are so utterly wrong on so many levels. The amount, the timing, the value/priority you believe I place on it, the value you believe that I think she places on it.

Maybe start by asking me these basic questions, so I can clarify before wasting your (and my) time posting your strawman


----------



## donesies

Elizabeth001 said:


> turnera said:
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody in their 20s really understands what such a career means.
> 
> More importantly, on TOP of that, he decided that he needed to basically become an IronMan-level athlete. Which doesn't happen in 4 or 5 hours a week.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t forget the community service. The hours don’t add up for me.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Well she’s wrong for one, but yes I do have a busy life


----------



## Andy1001

donesies said:


> Well she’s wrong for one, but yes I do have a busy life


You are under no obligation to defend yourself on this forum.You came here looking for advice on how to deal with your cheating wife and the fallout from her adulterous behavior.Unfortunately some people will always play devils advocate especially if it’s a cheating wife or girlfriend,cheating husbands or boyfriends don’t get the same benefit of the doubt on tam from what I read.
Don’t feel you have to answer everybody (or anybody for that matter)you have been dealt a poor hand but you have played it superbly,do not start second guessing yourself at this stage.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Hey everyone lay off the doc....the failure for this marriage square mainly and utterly on the wife...if she was so unhappy she could have told him she could have yelled at him but she did neither she freaking cheated....stop going down these rat holes. we can all be better people...but when a spouse cheats that is on them and only them


----------



## TX-SC

Lostinthought61 said:


> Hey everyone lay off the doc....the failure for this marriage square mainly and utterly on the wife...if she was so unhappy she could have told him she could have yelled at him but she did neither she freaking cheated....stop going down these rat holes. we can all be better people...but when a spouse cheats that is on them and only them


Agreed. Reading this thread has been a huge WTF about how some people on this forum think.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Red Sonja

Andy1001 said:


> You are under no obligation to defend yourself on this forum.You came here looking for advice on how to deal with your cheating wife and the fallout from her adulterous behavior.*Unfortunately some people will always play devils advocate especially if it’s a cheating wife or girlfriend,cheating husbands or boyfriends don’t get the same benefit of the doubt on tam from what I read.
> *Don’t feel you have to answer everybody (or anybody for that matter)you have been dealt a poor hand but you have played it superbly,do not start second guessing yourself at this stage.


The majority of women who come to TAM with a problem related to their husbands (to include cheating) eventually are asked "were you having sex with him, how often"? So no, no one gender gets the "benefit of the doubt".

ETA: I am of the opinion that no person is responsible for their spouse's decision to cheat, ever.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Red Sonja said:


> The majority of women who come to TAM with a problem related to their husbands (to include cheating) eventually are asked "were you having sex with him, how often"? So no, no one gender gets the "benefit of the doubt".


Yep. That's often the very first thing out of a lot of regulars' keyboards. Even before looking at anything else, even if other information was given.


----------



## Andy1001

Red Sonja said:


> The majority of women who come to TAM with a problem related to their husbands (to include cheating) eventually are asked "were you having sex with him, how often"? So no, no one gender gets the "benefit of the doubt".
> 
> ETA: I am of the opinion that no person is responsible for their spouse's decision to cheat, ever.


Look at the amount of men who have came on tam and admitted cheating or contemplating cheating and they suffer a torrent of abuse and never come back,no matter how badly their wives have behaved, they get crucified by posters here.
Then compare the amount of men who post about their wife cheating and they are advised by SOME posters to seek counseling and consider reconciliation.Not all posters do this but enough to see a clear pattern of bias.Maybe it’s a result of the amount of women posting in comparison to men or maybe men are quicker to forgive than women when it’s not their partner doing the cheating.
Just my opinion.


----------



## As'laDain

turnera said:


> I haven't read to the end yet, but I had to stop here.
> 
> You're a specialty physician. I work at a teaching hospital for the chair of a department. I get it. Your work is your life. You work 60 to 80 hours a week. You expect your home, your bills, your clothes, your everything, to be done, ready, and waiting for you when you get home and spend 2 hours a day with your wife before you go to bed. During which you're probably on your computer or phone.
> 
> Then you are in 'one of the most intense exercise routines of anyone' you know. Meaning you spend AT LEAST one hour a day - but probably two or three hours a day - exercising.
> 
> You're proud of your exercising. You probably look amazing, and you enjoy looking amazing. You may even be enjoying the looking amazing around all the female coworkers. I know what it's like; I work in it every day. The tv shows pretty much have it right.
> 
> So, I'll ask you: what was your WIFE'S life like?
> 
> I'm curious to see your answer.


you must work with a lot of genuine ass hats. i don't typically see you make so many assumptions based on so little in your posts...


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Disappointing to see women defending other women, particularly in the case of cheating. Seems to be just a reflexive response, or people projecting their own issues onto someone else's marriage. 

Lack of sex is definitely a contributing factor to the demise of a marriage. But I think we all agree that the proper way to handle it is to either address the marital issues or divorce. Not to have an affair and keep some sucker as your back-up plan and financial security. Any poster who plans to come in and essentially defend that behavior should just keep their mouth shut.


----------



## turnera

donesies said:


> Ironically, I have bought this book already at someone else’s suggestion.
> 
> If I’m understanding you correctly, women ARE NOT looking for a successful, good-looking man with a stable job?


Oh come on. You're taking this out of context. As part of my larger impression, I said that if a successful, good-looking man with a stable job is spending more time working, exercising, and volunteering and leaving only a few hours a week to be with his wife, she WILL be likely to be attracted to a poor, dumpy guy IF he pays attention to her, compliments her, and makes her feel special. If you learn more about relationships, you'll see that while most cheating men are in it for the sex and only pretend to care about feelings to GET that sex, most cheating women are in it for the emotion and will give the sex to GET that caring.



> Yes, I gave her conversation, honesty, and time together.


How much, in an average week? What do your nights look like? She doesn't work every day, correct? What are you doing on the weekends?



> The “problem” is that I work 8-5 and she works 2-7pm. She had all morning until 2pm off - that’s the window period that OM stepped in. Do you suggest I alter my hours to not go into work until 2 so that I can be there all the time and deter OM’s opportunity??


Look, I get that you're feeling attacked; I don't blame you; I'm not seeming very supportive. I'm just trying to educate you on what might be going on so that you can address it accurately. If you still want to be married to her, you can't just get rid of the guy and then carry on like you have been. You have to get to the crux of why she was OPEN to a creep like that. Whatever that was, it will still be there later.


----------



## Elizabeth001

turnera said:


> Oh come on. You're taking this out of context. As part of my larger impression, I said that if a successful, good-looking man with a stable job is spending more time working, exercising, and volunteering and leaving only a few hours a week to be with his wife, she WILL be likely to be attracted to a poor, dumpy guy IF he pays attention to her, compliments her, and makes her feel special. If you learn more about relationships, you'll see that while most cheating men are in it for the sex and only pretend to care about feelings to GET that sex, most cheating women are in it for the emotion and will give the sex to GET that caring.
> 
> 
> 
> How much, in an average week? What do your nights look like? She doesn't work every day, correct? What are you doing on the weekends?
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I get that you're feeling attacked; I don't blame you; I'm not seeming very supportive. I'm just trying to educate you on what might be going on so that you can address it accurately. If you still want to be married to her, you can't just get rid of the guy and then carry on like you have been. You have to get to the crux of why she was OPEN to a creep like that. Whatever that was, it will still be there later.




For her or most any other lady. I’m not defending her choices. I chose to leave my marriage instead. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## colingrant

Having an extramarital affair, lying and gas lighting, etc. is emotional abuse in the highest order. Period. For the betrayed, they're often subjected PTSD and YEARS of psychoanalysis, medical treatment and in some cases being admitted to a mental hospital. Recovery takes YEARS. Seriously, what pain can be deeper or worse? This is for both men and women. We probably can all agree the emotional/mental impact is as destructive as any element in society. 

If a man physically abuses woman, there should be NO discussions directed at the female on what marital or domestic issues exist that SHE could have contributed to the man imposing physical and/or emotional harm and abuse. ZERO.Just the same, if a woman strikes a man, we probably all agree there's NO acceptable reason for it. If a man gropes a woman because she's wearing clothing that is considered provocative and he gave that as the reason for his action, the man would be crucified for his justification, and DESERVEDLY so. 

It's unacceptable for a man to hit a woman just because she gets up in his face and dares him to hit her. Yes, it's jacked up, but the man is responsible for HIS own actions. Cheating should be viewed the same way in my opinion.In Donsies situtation, there's no way in hell is he (or if it were a woman) to start looking at *what he did that would cause his wife to cheat*. 

Asking or inferring Donsies to look at contributing factors in his own life that resulted in *his WIFE* committing infidelity is akin to asking a female to assess her behavior to see how SHE may have contributed to getting an eye shut closed from getting punched by her husband or asking a woman that was sexually abused at work to reassess her stylish work wardrobe or her communications with men in the office workplace to ensure she's not inviting verbal and physical abuse. *ANY discussion towards this end would be prosperous, insensitive, ignorant and completely UNFATHOMABLE.*


----------



## turnera

As'laDain said:


> you must work with a lot of genuine ass hats. i don't typically see you make so many assumptions based on so little in your posts...


I work with a lot of doctors. A lot of doctors who talk the same way OP does. Who are quite proud of themselves, proud of their bodies, proud of their success. And I deal with a lot of their wives who, basically, are practically raising their kids alone.

I'm not saying he is doing any of this - I was ASKING if he was doing any of this because it's so common. I don't even know any doctors who aren't working at least 60 hours a week. So I was trying to suss out what HIS daily life was like. 

And no, I am NOT defending his wife cheating. Show me where I did that. I'm trying to get him to think about all aspects of this situation because, like I said, most women cheat not for sex but for a relationship. And if someone is happily married and loving her life, she's not likely to be open to cheating on her husband. So I'm trying to get him to think about why she would be open to it - in case the marriage is saved.

Now, if she's just a selfish *****, then there's no saving this. He hasn't really talked about what she's been like throughout their relationship. So all I have to go off of is the fact that he's a doctor, in great shape, and, based on MY experience, such male doctors often have a wife sitting at home alone.


----------



## Wolfman1968

turnera said:


> He hasn't really talked about what she's been like throughout their relationship. So all I have to go off of is the fact that he's a doctor, in great shape, and, based on MY experience, such male doctors often have a wife sitting at home alone.


He already said she's NOT sitting home alone. 

She's got her own part time job for her own fulfilment, from 12-7pm. In fact, THAT is why his exercise doesn't cut into their common time, because she's not there anyway.

So the only time out of their common time that is sacrificed because of HIS schedule is 8-12 Monday-Friday (plus commuting). 

I call BS on any "emotional deprivation" of the WW based on his schedule, and also on your attempt to defend the WW. She could have plenty of time with him if she wanted it. Hell, why not blame her for not being there from 5-7 pm, thus cutting the time for an emotional connection?


----------



## Wolfman1968

Wolfman1968 said:


> He already said she's NOT sitting home alone.
> 
> She's got her own part time job for her own fulfilment, from 12-7pm. In fact, THAT is why his exercise doesn't cut into their common time, because she's not there anyway.
> 
> So the only time out of their common time that is sacrificed because of HIS schedule is 8-12 Monday-Friday (plus commuting).
> 
> I call BS on any "emotional deprivation" of the WW based on his schedule, and also on your attempt to defend the WW. She could have plenty of time with him if she wanted it. Hell, why not blame her for not being there from 5-7 pm, thus cutting the time for an emotional connection?



Correction, WW works 2-7. I looked back at Donsies's note. But the overall concept remains the same.


----------



## skerzoid

All:

Okay, now lets all get back to advising the OP. 

Donesies: 

1. Any word from the OBS?

2. Any more advice from the attorney?

3. Any more news of her trying to find dirt on you?


----------



## As'laDain

turnera said:


> I work with a lot of doctors. A lot of doctors who talk the same way OP does. Who are quite proud of themselves, proud of their bodies, proud of their success. And I deal with a lot of their wives who, basically, are practically raising their kids alone.
> 
> I'm not saying he is doing any of this - I was ASKING if he was doing any of this because it's so common. I don't even know any doctors who aren't working at least 60 hours a week. So I was trying to suss out what HIS daily life was like.
> 
> *And no, I am NOT defending his wife cheating. Show me where I did that*. I'm trying to get him to think about all aspects of this situation because, like I said, most women cheat not for sex but for a relationship. And if someone is happily married and loving her life, she's not likely to be open to cheating on her husband. So I'm trying to get him to think about why she would be open to it - in case the marriage is saved.
> 
> Now, if she's just a selfish *****, then there's no saving this. He hasn't really talked about what she's been like throughout their relationship. So all I have to go off of is the fact that he's a doctor, in great shape, and, based on MY experience, such male doctors often have a wife sitting at home alone.


first, you show me were i _accused_ you of anything more than making assumptions.

i really wouldn't bother trying to get him to understand why his wife would be open to cheating. after all, she wouldn't be open to it if she weren't open to it. simple as that. your opening post pretty much painted him as an asshat who was so full of himself and his career that he neglected his wife, implying that he got cheated on because as a doctor, he did not care about his wife. 

it sounds a lot like those people who tell us that we shouldnt expect fidelity from our wives because we are gone for 8 tenths of every year. well, if i can be half way around the world for most of every year and NOT cheat despite plenty of opportunity, then why cant my wife do the same? OP was home EVERY SINGLE NIGHT. 

of the last decade, i was home for a little over four years of it, when you put it all together. my wifes only slip up was a drunken one night stand with the neighbors wife within the first several months of our marriage(which was also within the first several months of our relationship overall), which she confessed to immediately and. she was NEVER dishonest with me about where we stand. she NEVER tried to replace me while getting all the benefits of being married. 

she did all that with a whole lot less time and money than OP's wife had. she had time with her husband that my wife rarely got with me. she had money to afford a very comfortable life style while my wife and i were eating rice and beans.

cut the man some slack. his snowflake princess wife wanted to eat cake, simple as that.


----------



## Suspicious1

Those poor soldiers that are deployed for months on end, risking their lives every single day. Waking up not knowing if they're live to see their children and wives, only to come home to a detached woman, who's been giving it all over town with coupons, and when the affairs come to light you hear screaming I was lonely, you don't how its to be married to you not knowing if I'll see you ever again!

A few of the above post sound allot like this.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> All:
> 
> Okay, now lets all get back to advising the OP.
> 
> Donesies:
> 
> 1. Any word from the OBS?
> 
> 2. Any more advice from the attorney?
> 
> 3. Any more news of her trying to find dirt on you?


1. I got her new phone number and texted her from an anonymous source. No response. Not sure if she got it.

2. Attorney says that we move forward with separating everything including cars, possessions, etc to strengthen the de facto settlement

3. I believe she is done with that - at least through the previously-explored channels


----------



## colingrant

Suspicious1 said:


> Those poor soldiers that are deployed for months on end, risking their lives every single day. Waking up not knowing if they're live to see their children and wives, only to come home to a detached woman, who's been giving it all over town with coupons, and when the affairs come to light you hear screaming I was lonely, you don't how its to be married to you not knowing if I'll see you ever again!
> 
> A few of the above post sound allot like this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I wrote in this thread or another one that the same goes to men (and women) who work long hours while their spouses are SAHM or SAHD. Not in all cases, but typically the bilateral decision by couples to have one of them stay at home is to prioritize home and family management. To do so, both make huge sacrifices, including the SAHM or SAHD, who appear to be living on easy street, but with a big home and multiple kids, this isn't the case at all. But anyway, when one spouse has taken on the responsibility of being the sole income provider, the pressure he or she absorbs is highly underappreciated and often unacknowledged altogether. Do people think the working spouse .............

1) Enjoys working late and having their life dictated by their employer?
2) Traveling or working 12 hour days, hence separated from spouse, kids and activities, and routinely missing family dinners. Dates and 1-on-1 time with the spouse reduced to nil. It's a toll on both the stay at home spouse and the working one. 
3) Pressure to perform at a high level to maintain an income allowing the SAHM or Dad to continue staying at home (if they wish to). 
4) Maintaining the job (while the affair is ongoing in many cases) to ensure the future success of the family stays intact while the WS runs amok. What's at stake while the BS battles depression, PTSD and sneaky WS activities to maintain or end the affair and while the BS seeks to perform and keep their job? The couples pension, family benefits, college education, mortgage, private school ed, 2 car notes and avoiding divorce so that the family can stay intact. 

These are just a few surface scratching SACRIFICES few acknowledge when the stay at home spouse gets LONELY or BORED and copes with it by succumbing to infidelity. Here's the topper and perhaps the saddest occurrence. I've routinely seen the working spouse *APOLOGIZE *for executing a marital plan agreed to by both spouses and TAKING THE BLAME for the BS waywardness, not even realizing the integrity of their commitment to their family was sacrificial and noble.


----------



## colingrant

Suspicious1 said:


> Those poor soldiers that are deployed for months on end, risking their lives every single day. Waking up not knowing if they're live to see their children and wives, only to come home to a detached woman, who's been giving it all over town with coupons, and when the affairs come to light you hear screaming I was lonely, you don't how its to be married to you not knowing if I'll see you ever again!
> 
> A few of the above post sound allot like this.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I too think often of the soldiers. I can't imagine the insecurities and indignities they experience from being married to WS's thousands of miles away, while they ARE SENDING CHECKS HOME.


----------



## As'laDain

jatoba said:


> REDACTED


absolutely terrible first post. 

did you read the forum rules?


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> 1. I got her new phone number and texted her from an anonymous source. No response. Not sure if she got it.
> 
> 2. Attorney says that we move forward with separating everything including cars, possessions, etc to strengthen the de facto settlement
> 
> 3. I believe she is done with that - at least through the previously-explored channels


You sent her an anonymous text? Why? What about? 

I don't know why your wife took off with another man, but it wasn't your fault. If she had issues in the marriage, it was her job to tell you about them and to seek resolution. I think some of the comments made may be helpful to remember for future relationships. It might be a good idea to think about how good relationships work and to understand how to make a marriage work for the future, but you can only control yourself. If you are married to someone who isn't committed to relationship and won't communicate, there isn't much you can do about that.

Perhaps you will want to know warning signs in the future so you can avoid getting cheated on again. I don't meant to become paranoid or to flee when things aren't perfect, but to be aware and have tools to resolve issues when they arise or to be able to choose someone because you know how to determine if they are a trustworthy and safe person or not. There are ways to make those determinations. I think a big thing is that if you catch someone in a lie, you know you cannot trust her. That would be an early indicator that someone isn't for you.

In other words, hope is not lost. There are many trustworthy, wonderful people out there. You just have to know what to look for and what to avoid. And you have to take your time getting to really know someone in various settings over a period of time.


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> You sent her an anonymous text? Why? What about?


"Your husband has an ongoing inappropriate relationship with ----." Gave some specifics that couldn't be ignored. I can always reveal myself as the source later, but for now just wanted to alert her to the problem.



CynthiaDe said:


> I don't know why your wife took off with another man, but it wasn't your fault. If she had issues in the marriage, it was her job to tell you about them and to seek resolution. I think some of the comments made may be helpful to remember for future relationships. It might be a good idea to think about how good relationships work and to understand how to make a marriage work for the future, but you can only control yourself. If you are married to someone who isn't committed to relationship and won't communicate, there isn't much you can do about that.
> 
> Perhaps you will want to know warning signs in the future so you can avoid getting cheated on again. I don't meant to become paranoid or to flee when things aren't perfect, but to be aware and have tools to resolve issues when they arise or to be able to choose someone because you know how to determine if they are a trustworthy and safe person or not. There are ways to make those determinations. I think a big thing is that if you catch someone in a lie, you know you cannot trust her. That would be an early indicator that someone isn't for you.
> 
> In other words, hope is not lost. There are many trustworthy, wonderful people out there. You just have to know what to look for and what to avoid. And you have to take your time getting to really know someone in various settings over a period of time.


Thank you


----------



## Malaise

As'laDain said:


> absolutely terrible first post.
> 
> did you read the forum rules?


What he said.

He knows not what he says but ignorance is no excuse.

I advise him/her to duck.

eta: @turnera is a well respected poster. Learn before you speak.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> "Your husband has an ongoing inappropriate relationship with ----." Gave some specifics that couldn't be ignored. I can always reveal myself as the source later, but for now just wanted to alert her to the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you


That makes sense. It is good that you gave specifics. That way she will know that she's not being trolled.
You're welcome. Your heart will heal. We are here to help with that healing process.


----------



## 3putt

jatoba said:


> REDACTED


Turnera's helped more people through the years here than you'll ever even know. That was a masterpiece of pure ignorance.


----------



## Tron

Turnera is normally very sensible, but she seems to have a bee in her blouse about this guy...or maybe it's just doctors in general. 

IDK. Sorry for the threadjack.


----------



## Chaparral

I think you will eventually find out that your wife has been played. What made it easier for the Posom was the difficulty having children made her vulnerable for someone like him to play her. 

If you google how to pick up married women, there is quite an art to it. Her infertility gave him the perfect opportunity to create/magnify your weaknesses and pass himself off as an understanding savior.

With your resources I would file suit against him. Payback should be hell.


----------



## Andy1001

Chaparral said:


> I think you will eventually find out that your wife has been played. What made it easier for the Posom was the difficulty having children made her vulnerable for someone like him to play her.
> 
> If you google how to pick up married women, there is quite an art to it. Her infertility gave him the perfect opportunity to create/magnify your weaknesses and pass himself off as an understanding savior.
> 
> With your resources I would file suit against him. Payback should be hell.


While I agree with you in principle, the op is a doctor and the last thing he needs is to have a public mud slinging match with some ******* who has nothing left to lose.As a medical practitioner his reputation is everything.
Take the high road and don’t ever let the bastards grind you down.


----------



## donesies

Tron said:


> Turnera is normally very sensible, but she seems to have a bee in her blouse about this guy...or maybe it's just doctors in general.
> 
> IDK. Sorry for the threadjack.


Yeah - she don't like me

I don't know what I'm doing here, guys. I have followed your advice (the majority opinion anyway) to a "T" WRT the actions I should take, legally and otherwise. I am doing some introspection as well and will be a better husband next go-around.


----------



## Andy1001

donesies said:


> Yeah - she don't like me
> 
> I don't know what I'm doing here, guys. I have followed your advice (the majority opinion anyway) to a "T" WRT the actions I should take, legally and otherwise. I am doing some introspection as well and will be a better husband next go-around.


You may not realize this Doc but you are in the profession that is considered the most promiscuous.The percentage of doctors,nurses and other medical professionals who cheat is at the top end of the infidelity table.My own dating motto was no doctors,no nurses and no tattoos in no particular order.
Turnera has said she works with a lot of doctors so she will have seen this behavior in action.
It’s probably nothing personal so don’t let it bother you.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

That's why I always laugh at people who have spouses in law eenforcement. Don't get me wrong, I back the blue. Just based on what I've seen if someone suspects a cop of an affair, I always assume it is true based on the profiles. Cops cant get mad about that either cause they know a thing or two about profiling. Lol


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Yeah - she don't like me
> 
> I don't know what I'm doing here, guys. I have followed your advice (the majority opinion anyway) to a "T" WRT the actions I should take, legally and otherwise. I am doing some introspection as well and will be a better husband next go-around.


You are doing fine Donesies.


----------



## jatoba

donesies said:


> Yeah - she don't like me
> 
> I don't know what I'm doing here, guys. I have followed your advice (the majority opinion anyway) to a "T" WRT the actions I should take, legally and otherwise. I am doing some introspection as well and will be a better husband next go-around.


Thanks to everyone who helped you through in this thread, I think you are currently set on the best track possible. You are doing great. You even did your part in trying to let the OMW know about it, and even changed locks (if I recall correctly), kept backups of the diary pictures, is avoiding further contact with your wife until the trial comes and so on. You are golden. Now all that is required is patience and endurance... Stay tight.

I think the introspection can be left for later: I'd fear it somehow clouding your good judgment. Not that you have to force yourself not to think about it, but I find it best to focus on it only after the trial is over.


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> Yeah - she don't like me
> 
> I don't know what I'm doing here, guys. I have followed your advice (the majority opinion anyway) to a "T" WRT the actions I should take, legally and otherwise. I am doing some introspection as well and will be a better husband next go-around.


Don't be in such a hurry to be a better husband or for that matter - any kind of husband. Chill out. Learn to live by yourself and for yourself. No hurry.


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> Yeah - she don't like me
> 
> I don't know what I'm doing here, guys. I have followed your advice (the majority opinion anyway) to a "T" WRT the actions I should take, legally and otherwise. I am doing some introspection as well and will be a better husband next go-around.


Done.

You are doing great. It seems that you've followed the advice you've found valuable and ignored what wasn't and its worked quite well. Seems appropriate.

We've had a chance to learn enough about you based on your actions and thoughtful posts that we probably don't need to categorize you based on your job anymore.

Do you know when the agreement goes before the judge? I think I would lay very low until that part is signed off.

I don't know if this is good advice, but in your shoes, I sure would want some sort of explanation from her at some point. Others may say just move forward, but I would need to hear it from her point view for closure.


----------



## TDSC60

Doctors and nurses are near the top of the infidelity prone career list. 

They are also co-workers which is near the top of the "who with" list.


----------



## manfromlamancha

It's interesting - I have heard this too. Medical profession, cops, firemen etc have the most affairs. Yet there was I thinking that they are the group that saves the most number of lives etc. Interesting ... On the other hand you have lawyers, bankers and politicians!!!!


----------



## jatoba

As'laDain said:


> i am inclined to agree. especially given the _purpose_ of that first post...


I think so, too, but eitherway is fine. I do hope you indeed understood the _purpose_, though: not to let roam free of due criticism someone who brings further, *untimely* suffering to someone already in great suffering for being cheated upon. That too with assumptions which could have been _entirely_ avoided if he/she had just read the thread before posting. Such an unethical, damaging, easily-avoidable and incompetent act is unforgivable. Calling her out on it is the _least_ I could do.

Same goes for some who supported her while ignoring what she did: people as @Malaise who are better off turning towards a mirror when speaking, not me: "Learn before you speak." Meaning read the damn thread carefully before you post and find yourself to be in a position to speak about ignorance.

As for you @As'laDain, sorry you (and @bandit.45, apparently) didn't agree with my approach; You two are among the many who have been extremely supportive and non-biased with donesies. If this account gets banned, just know that please keep up the good work. (Not that you guys need me to tell you that.)


----------



## TDSC60

manfromlamancha said:


> It's interesting - I have heard this too. Medical profession, cops, firemen etc have the most affairs. Yet there was I thinking that they are the group that saves the most number of lives etc. Interesting ... On the other hand you have lawyers, bankers and politicians!!!!


Most lists are make up from scores of people who were finally truthful about all aspects of their affair. 

The "being truthful" part leaves politicians out.


----------



## re16

manfromlamancha said:


> It's interesting - I have heard this too. Medical profession, cops, firemen etc have the most affairs. Yet there was I thinking that they are the group that saves the most number of lives etc. Interesting ... On the other hand you have lawyers, bankers and politicians!!!!


There was one poster who had cheated on her husband (she was a nurse) who said that going through intense life saving situations with co-workers causes a strong bond to form, and she felt that those experiences and related bonding were what led her to EA and then PA. The extreme situations were like forced bonding exercises.... a recipe for the wrong emotions to come into play.


----------



## donesies

jatoba said:


> Thanks to everyone who helped you through in this thread, I think you are currently set on the best track possible. You are doing great. You even did your part in trying to let the OMW know about it, and even changed locks (if I recall correctly), kept backups of the diary pictures, is avoiding further contact with your wife until the trial comes and so on. You are golden. Now all that is required is patience and endurance... Stay tight.
> 
> I think the introspection can be left for later: I'd fear it somehow clouding your good judgment. Not that you have to force yourself not to think about it, but I find it best to focus on it only after the trial is over.


Yes, locks were changed last week. Forgot to mention that.

Lawyer reached out about quit claim signing and did it sort of in exchange for getting her off the home mortgage and some other odds and ends. She seemed open to it.


----------



## donesies

re16 said:


> Done.
> 
> You are doing great. It seems that you've followed the advice you've found valuable and ignored what wasn't and its worked quite well. Seems appropriate.
> 
> We've had a chance to learn enough about you based on your actions and thoughtful posts that we probably don't need to categorize you based on your job anymore.
> 
> Do you know when the agreement goes before the judge? I think I would lay very low until that part is signed off.
> 
> I don't know if this is good advice, but in your shoes, I sure would want some sort of explanation from her at some point. Others may say just move forward, but I would need to hear it from her point view for closure.


Yes, I do know the date but not going to post it here to maintain at least a small level of anonymity

I would like to know what happened in theory, but I already know that I won't get a satisfying explanation (or probably even a truthful one), so I'm not going to go there


----------



## dadstartingover

Chaparral said:


> I think you will eventually find out that your wife has been played. What made it easier for the Posom was the difficulty having children made her vulnerable for someone like him to play her.
> 
> If you google how to pick up married women, there is quite an art to it. Her infertility gave him the perfect opportunity to create/magnify your weaknesses and pass himself off as an understanding savior.
> 
> With your resources I would file suit against him. Payback should be hell.


Hehe... was waiting for this. I just got on somebody else recently for doing the whole "poor innocent woman was preyed upon by the predatory man" trope. 

"Well, she's a woman... so we know she couldn't be completely at fault!" -- Subtle form of sexism.

Please. Stop. 

Going down this avenue of thought just perpetuates the "poor innocent woman" stereotype and allows her to manipulate the situation further. If OP persues any kind of action against the man, you damn well better believe the ex will jump on that in a heartbeat if/when the possibility of reconciliation comes up. 
*
I was taken advantage of!
He lied to me!
He emotionally abused me!
Thank you for waking me up and taking me away from the evil clutches of this MAN!*

It's usually by the second or third discovered affair that guys say "Huh... maybe she's not the victim after all."


----------



## VladDracul

Its simple. Men just don't want to believe their wives willing gave it up to another guy. Kinda kills the notion that, "she saves that special kind of love of only me."


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> Its simple. Men just don't want to believe their wives willing gave it up to another guy. Kinda kills the notion that, "she saves that special kind of love of only me."


Pretty much


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. Okay, since you sent the message to the OBS, now prepare for the onslaught of the WW. She will be coming after you hammer and tongs now.

2. Have you let you lawyer know that you have done this? Best let them know so they are mentally ahead of every aspect in the handling of this divorce.

3. Prepare yourself mentally for her rage. You will hear all manner of accusations from her and she will try to destroy you as best she can. Don't get in a pissing match with her. In fact, don't let her get into pissing range so that she can do this. All contact through the lawyer. Don't answer calls or texts.

4. Remember, your hole card is your ability to expose her and the POS publicly at the club and otherwise. She should believe that you are perfectly willing to do this. This is her Achilles heel and you have to be willing to put an arrow in it. Let her not doubt it.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 1. Okay, since you sent the message to the OBS, now prepare for the onslaught of the WW. She will be coming after you hammer and tongs now.
> 
> 2. Have you let you lawyer know that you have done this? Best let them know so they are mentally ahead of every aspect in the handling of this divorce.
> 
> 3. Prepare yourself mentally for her rage. You will hear all manner of accusations from her and she will try to destroy you as best she can. Don't get in a pissing match with her. In fact, don't let her get into pissing range so that she can do this. All contact through the lawyer. Don't answer calls or texts.
> 
> 4. Remember, your hole card is your ability to expose her and the POS publicly at the club and otherwise. She should believe that you are perfectly willing to do this. This is her achilles heal and you have to be willing to put an arrow in it. Let her not doubt it.


1. Exactly why I didn't say who I was

2. Yes, I told him

3. Done

4. I think that's the only reason this is going smoothly to date


----------



## Red Sonja

jatoba said:


> Such an unethical, damaging, easily-avoidable and incompetent act is unforgivable.


The above is over-the-top nonsense.


I have read the entire thread and @turnera 's posts. What she is attempting to do is to get the OP to _think _about his contributions to the _marriage_ not the affair, operative word here is "think". We can argue about the timing of doing so however everyone whose marriage ends in divorce (for any reason) needs to eventually self-reflect on his or her contribution to the demise of the marriage in order to not repeat the same mistakes.

Again, we can argue the timing but what @turnera suggests is a critical undertaking in self-reflection relative to the marriage.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Red Sonja said:


> The above is over-the-top nonsense.
> 
> 
> I have read the entire thread and @turnera 's posts. What she is attempting to do is to get the OP to _think _about his contributions to the _marriage_ not the affair, operative word here is "think". We can argue about the timing of doing so however everyone whose marriage ends in divorce (for any reason) needs to *eventually *self-reflect on his or her contribution to the demise of the marriage in order to not repeat the same mistakes.
> 
> Again, we can argue the timing but what @turnera suggests is a critical undertaking in self-reflection relative to the marriage.


Donesies, again I am going to restate this. Your thread is less than 3 weeks old. In that time there has been dday, she moved, signed the divorce papers, cashed checks and now just waiting on judge to sign. 3 weeks. 

So emphasis on eventually... like 2019. You are not to blame on this. She choose to cheat.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> *You asked me if she has ever had a full-time job. I never really thought about that question, but she actually did for one year and she never let me hear the end of it. She complained how bad it was and how I made her get that job and it was all my fault *
> 
> Right now, she teaches for about 15 hours a week and then she spends the rest of the time at this club and she actually once told me (and I’m not making this up): I do so much at that place, that I consider myself full-time. Nevermind the fact that she pays to be there.
> 
> Hell if you count all of the community service I do outside of my job, I work like 100 hours a week


That was a sneak preview of things to come.....


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I think it's time we all ignore the visit from the Concerned Feminists Club who are so helpful in making sure donsies succeeds in his next relationship, despite having no concept of the dynamic between the married couple. Excuse me while I puke.


----------



## Chuck71

VladDracul said:


> In Georgia if the divorce is a direct result of a spouse committing adultery, that spouse may be precluded from receiving alimony. The faithful spouse must be the one that filed and it must be on the grounds of adultery. There are 13 grounds for divorce in Georgia and "irreconcilable differences" is the no-fault one. It cannot be a "dukes mixture" of the other grounds. Proving the adultery occurred is another matter. Moreover, if the spouses have sex after the adultery is discovered, *or the spouses continue to live together, the courts in Georgia, and I suspect most other states, generally view that as the innocent spouse forgiving the adultery*. I'm pretty sure Florida, North and South Carolina operate under the same principles.
> But like I said before, I practiced tax law and not family law.


Yet if the BH moves out after filing.... he is nailed to the wall for abandonment. Not of the WW...

but the children.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Tatsuhiko said:


> I think it's time we all ignore the visit from the Concerned Feminists Club who are so helpful in making sure donsies succeeds in his next relationship, despite having no concept of the dynamic between the married couple. Excuse me while I puke.


Sure, there are lessons for everyone to learn about a relationship breakdown. In Donesies case, it sounds like theirs was caused by being fundamentally incompatible. He was a dedicated, intelligent professional who worked hard and looked after himself and had interests outside the marriage that he didn't let interfere with the marriage. She was a selfish, attention-seeking leech who wanted someone else to put her on a pedestal and buy her everything she ever wanted but wasn't willing to work to earn for herself.

I don't think he needs to figure out how he went wrong in anything except for not seeing her true nature in the first place. The 50% (or whatever it is) marriage failure rate tells us that this is an extremely common mistake that many of us make, but hopefully we only make it once.

Human nature uses outer beauty as a marker for inner goodness when there's no valid reason for it.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> Yes, I do know the date but not going to post it here to maintain at least a small level of anonymity
> 
> I would like to know what happened in theory, but I already know that I won't get a satisfying explanation (or probably even a truthful one), so I'm not going to go there


Doc..... you are doing an A+ job. You will have good days and bad days... all part of process.

I will try and keep from restating what has already been. Your STBXW and POSOM took part

in a trade.... She traded sex for attention, he traded attention for sex. Appearance did not factor in...

most WS affair down. She was very aware of what your schedule was to be like, during med school

and after. Her 2-7 hobby was more a social function, than a p/t job. There are several of these "Ladies Clubs"

in any city over 50k. Nearly all who are members... are W of men with high paying jobs.

Of course they have children... and many are raised by a nanny. 

What you often hear from WW are 1-You work all the time but do not spend time with your family....

or 2-You spend time with your family but are not a good provider.

Funny.... it's like....."pick one.... you can't have both." My XW tried the first one with me....

my reply -Get off your ass and get a job and I won't be working all the time- It worked....

Does she have any siblings? What was her relationship with them like?

Her parents.... how did she describe them before you met? Did she have any dating history before you?

Being a physician you will be sought after intensely. You're still young... date for a few years.....

If you do not want children, I recommend never marrying again. If you want kids.... different story.

Always remember.... it was HER decision to accept the advances of another man.

She refused to "shut it down" when he came on to her.....She mentally D you the moment she

let him slide her panties off. The paperwork is just billable hours for lawyers.

She appears to sound really damaged.... but I wouldn't go that far w/o more info. 

Hang in there...... you're kicking ass


----------



## Andy1001

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Sure, there are lessons for everyone to learn about a relationship breakdown. In Donesies case, it sounds like theirs was caused by being fundamentally incompatible. He was a dedicated, intelligent professional who worked hard and looked after himself and had interests outside the marriage that he didn't let interfere with the marriage. She was a selfish, attention-seeking leech who wanted someone else to put her on a pedestal and buy her everything she ever wanted but wasn't willing to work to earn for herself.
> 
> I don't think he needs to figure out how he went wrong in anything except for not seeing her true nature in the first place. The 50% (or whatever it is) marriage failure rate tells us that this is an extremely common mistake that many of us make, but hopefully we only make it once.
> 
> Human nature uses outer beauty as a marker for inner goodness when there's no valid reason for it.


You,me and everyone on this and every other forum can dissect this marriage from now until the end of time without ever knowing the actual reason she cheated.
But two things remain absolute.
She had sex with someone other than her husband.
Her husband didn’t have sex with anyone other than his wife.
The end.


----------



## Red Sonja

Tatsuhiko said:


> I think it's time we all ignore the visit from the* Concerned Feminists Club *who are so helpful in making sure donsies succeeds in his next relationship, despite having no concept of the dynamic between the married couple. Excuse me while I puke.


:lol::rofl::lol::rofl: ... not even close. Know your audience before you start with the stereotypical mud-slinging.


----------



## Satya

@donesies, it's good that you're making consistent progress with the operations and logistics of things.

There's another component here, too. Introspection. You're likely just so embroiled in staying on target that you aren't prepared to introspect yet. That time will come, it's just not yet.


----------



## Chuck71

Satya said:


> @donesies, it's good that you're making consistent progress with the operations and logistics of things.
> 
> There's another component here, too. Introspection. You're likely just so embroiled in staying on target that you aren't prepared to introspect yet. That time will come, it's just not yet.


Us kuntry peeple calls dem "reflections" You can't see a reflect, until it is presented. 

Are there things you did wrong? Of course.... own your POS tendencies.... we ALL have them.

But be aware of hers, and where your line in the sand is. If cheating is a deal breaker....

well, it's over. The why's..... you may never know, or when you do know, you no longer give a damn.

I do not cheat, I expect the same.... if it happens, I'm out. If I cheat, I expect her to tell me to

go F myself and move on. It's pretty damn simple...


----------



## donesies

Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.

Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


Well at least she's being frugal and smart with the money!


----------



## lucy999

Hang in there. that money will not last forever and she will either have to find another man who makes really good coin, or get off her ass and get her own job like most of the world. She is in for a really rude awakening. Looks don't last forever. Then where will she be?

Like I said before, she is not of your caliber. She is beneath you. And I am not talking about money here. I'm talking about moral character.


----------



## Rick Blaine

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


Yes, it's a tragedy. But if she bought a car this says so much about her. She is a cold hearted leech. It is good that you have gone dark.


----------



## dubsey

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


1. Who cares? It's her money now. She can do what she wants with it.
2. It's pretty predictable. She'll look at it and it'll help her feel good. Just treat it as a sign that she doesn't like herself right now, and she did that to give her something to feel good about.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


So what? As long as you aren't a co-signer to a note what do you care? She will most likely burn through the money. Let her. The faster she sets herself up for a new life, the faster she will be out of yours. 

You gotta let her go man.


----------



## Cromer

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


Not to be sexist, but every woman in my family who has bought a car on their own paid way too much. 

So, take solace in knowing that she probably paid way too much for it.


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


My XWW did the same thing, then went drunk driving and crashed it. She's on her 3rd vehicle since the divorce that happened less than 3 years ago and her current vehicle is about 10 years old, had 100K miles when she bought it, and is showing its age. I hope you don't have continued interaction with your STBXWW in the future, but if you do I bet you'll see her blow through that money pretty quickly and if she doesn't find another guy to take care of her soon, she'll start the downward spiral. When that happens you can just sit back and say that you're glad it's not your problem to deal with.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


It is normal to feel bitter, she spent quite a while lying to you about how she felt. Many lies and many boundaries she had to cross to fall in love with another man and hide it from you. Reality is you will probably never ever get a straight answer from her as in a sense of closure, she is too much of a chicken poo to face you, too small of a women. 

My 2 cents on informing other man's wife. Just keep calling her until she picks up.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


That's pretty typical and it's okay. You gave her the money because you had to. Please try to avoid finding out what she does with it, as it's likely she's not going to be careful with it. Part of what caused all this trouble in the first place was her lack of self-control.


----------



## Thor

Winston Churchill is quoted as saying you don't pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her to leave when you are finished. The same concept applies here. You pay the settlement and alimony so your stbxw will leave now that you are finished with her.


----------



## Chuck71

Cromer said:


> Not to be sexist, but every woman in my family who has bought a car on their own paid way too much.
> 
> So, take solace in knowing that she probably paid way too much for it.


Cromer...... just started your thread...... WOW! I can't count the times female friends have

had me go with them to a car lot, act like their b/f, to keep from getting screwed on a car.

Most of the time the female is presented something within $500-1000 of what I would pay.

If it's way too much I would say -offer xxx- I've gotten countless free trips to my fav

Italian bistro for that...


----------



## Cromer

Chuck71 said:


> Cromer...... just started your thread...... WOW! I can't count the times female friends have
> 
> had me go with them to a car lot, act like their b/f, to keep from getting screwed on a car.
> 
> Most of the time the female is presented something within $500-1000 of what I would pay.
> 
> If it's way too much I would say -offer xxx- I've gotten countless free trips to my fav
> 
> Italian bistro for that...


Maybe this will make OP feel better. My sister bought a car and brought it for me to see. When she told me what she paid I went RAGE MODE. In this state (where she was at the time), a buyer has 3 days to change his/her mind and back out of the purchase. I went with her to the dealership, saw the owner, and got $3k off of what she paid. She paid STICKER!!!!


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. Her spending the money just solidifies the deal more completely. She is digging her own grave. 

2. Her spending spree and having to pay for her apartment will use up petty cash quickly and put her in a more desperate mode.

3. She wanted you to know about it. Remember, no contact = faster healing and less pain. She wants control.

4. Did a friend tell you about this? Next time, you need to explain in a friendly manner whats happening and that you would rather not hear about her.

5. Detach, detach, detach. Not your circus, not your monkeys. 

6. Remember, you are a lion. The other man's a hyena. She's chosen poorly. She will have to live with that the rest of her days.


----------



## Chuck71

A happy bar is when the whiskey flows freely..... when the whiskey dries up.... the party is over.

And the bar closes....


----------



## donesies

STBXW sent me some logistical stuff WRT bills. Didn't respond. Should I seriously just give radio silence? Seems like I want to keep things cooperative and cordial


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> STBXW sent me some logistical stuff WRT bills. Didn't respond. Should I seriously just give radio silence? Seems like I want to keep things cooperative and cordial


WRT to bills reply if it suits you, i.e. it makes sense. No need to hurt your own credit. Reply at your leisure, you are not on her leash.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Stick to business. Ignore the phony salutations.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies:

1. If you don't want the lawyer to handle it (cost?) its up to you. 

2. Slow response. Don't want it to look like you are hanging on her messages.

3. Keep it as short and businesslike as possible. 

4. Any response from the OBS?

5. You are doing great Doc. I really admire your strength, courage, & decisiveness in the face of the worst pain one can suffer. Take only what is of value here and disregard the rest.


----------



## ButtPunch

Yes strictly business


----------



## Chuck71

Doc.... pay your bills and the ones which will be yours after the D is final.

Hers..........is hers to pay. God knows she has the capital. Will you have to cover her health

insurance the same amount of time you will be paying alimony?


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> STBXW sent me some logistical stuff WRT bills. Didn't respond. Should I seriously just give radio silence? Seems like I want to keep things cooperative and cordial


I don't know what WRT stands for.

I thought you had divided all the bills, closed mutual credit cards, etc. Why are there mutual bills left to pay?

If it's something you are responsible for and you need her cooperation, yes, respond in a strictly business manner. No personal discussion of any kind. And like someone else mentioned, do not respond quickly. Give it at least a few hours, days if it won't negatively impact you if she makes a move that you don't like or if a bill you are responsible for will be late. It's not about playing games. It's about not making her a priority. Your personal responsibilities, such as bills, are a priority, but I'm guessing you don't open your bills and pay them that exact same moment they come in. Treat her like you would AMEX.


----------



## jlg07

WRT - With respect to (I think).


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> donesies:
> 
> 1. If you don't want the lawyer to handle it (cost?) its up to you.
> 
> 2. Slow response. Don't want it to look like you are hanging on her messages.
> 
> 3. Keep it as short and businesslike as possible.
> 
> 4. Any response from the OBS?
> 
> 5. You are doing great Doc. I really admire your strength, courage, & decisiveness in the face of the worst pain one can suffer. Take only what is of value here and disregard the rest.


Thanks. 

Re: 4. I have heard NOTHING back. I know I sent the text to the right number though


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't know what WRT stands for.
> 
> I thought you had divided all the bills, closed mutual credit cards, etc. Why are there mutual bills left to pay?
> 
> If it's something you are responsible for and you need her cooperation, yes, respond in a strictly business manner. No personal discussion of any kind. And like someone else mentioned, do not respond quickly. Give it at least a few hours, days if it won't negatively impact you if she makes a move that you don't like or if a bill you are responsible for will be late. It's not about playing games. It's about not making her a priority. Your personal responsibilities, such as bills, are a priority, but I'm guessing you don't open your bills and pay them that exact same moment they come in. Treat her like you would AMEX.


House payments (utilities, etc) take FOREVER to get switched over. All that had not been completely sorted out. Unlike the OM, I do have a steady job, so it takes a bit of time to get these things sorted out.


----------



## donesies

jlg07 said:


> WRT - With respect to (I think).


Correct


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Re: 4. I have heard NOTHING back. I know I sent the text to the right number though


You did your part. Your responsibility is over in that area. Good job.


----------



## DTO

turnera said:


> Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody in their 20s really understands what such a career means.


I don't buy it. They are early 30s now, so around 25 when they got married. He was in the latter stages of med school and already probably devoting 70-80 hours a week to class, studies, interning, etc.

Most people know in general that doctors work very hard, and that the more you make the more hours you put in. Plus, she was able to see first hand how hard he worked. Did she seriously just think that he would spend radically _less_ time in practice than in school? The level of ignorance she'd need to believe that strains credulity.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.


 Look at that car as the visual confirmation that you are done with her. Checks cashed and money spent. May I ask what kind of car? BMW?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Re: 4. I have heard NOTHING back. I know I sent the text to the right number though


Call her. Cal her from Skype, Google Voice, work etc. She will pick up. If she works get her office number.


----------



## donesies

Rubix Cubed said:


> Look at that car as the visual confirmation that you are done with her. Checks cashed and money spent. May I ask what kind of car? BMW?


No, but it's an upper end Infiniti


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> No, but it's an upper end Infiniti


 Same effect. Keeping up *appearances*.As said before, She's worried about her image. You have her in the palm of your hand. Hold those cards until after the divorce, then decide whether you want to play them or not. I would play them as consequences.


----------



## drifting on

Done

Let the money and her go, you’ll make the money again and find a much better person to marry. Concentrate on life without her, your career, and most of all yourself. I admit, that when I got caught up on your thread, I can understand why you feel @turnera doesn’t like you. As stated earlier, turnera is making you aware of the self reflection that you will do in the near future. It’s tough to do but will make you a much better person and partner in the future. Turnera is a very smart person, one who’s posts have helped me tremendously, so I wouldn’t just disregard them. Just my opinion.


----------



## Elizabeth001

drifting on said:


> Done
> 
> 
> 
> Let the money and her go, you’ll make the money again and find a much better person to marry. Concentrate on life without her, your career, and most of all yourself. I admit, that when I got caught up on your thread, I can understand why you feel @turnera doesn’t like you. As stated earlier, turnera is making you aware of the self reflection that you will do in the near future. It’s tough to do but will make you a much better person and partner in the future. Turnera is a very smart person, one who’s posts have helped me tremendously, so I wouldn’t just disregard them. Just my opinion.




Spot on and I don’t remember any of the posters saying cheating was ok. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## eric1

Who cares what she drives?

Doc, sorry to be blunt, but all of that crap is no longer your problem. It should not have a single foothold in your brain.


----------



## Chuck71

Doc..... anytime you're feeling a bit pissed at her "getting away" with all that money....

confer with colleagues, who got a D, and had several young children. Ask what their payouts are.

Then.... say "if there is a God in Heaven, I thank you!"


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> Thank you for your continued support. This whole thing is so freakin’ effed up.
> 
> Just discovered she bought a new car with the “severance” money she got.



Look at this way, your stbxw is not smart with money. Your stbxw is in the throws of a D, will need a place to live and a lawyer. She purchases a car instead of holding the money for the very near future.. That irresponsible maneuver is something you will not have to deal with in the future because she will be someone else's problem. 

Also, as they say, not your monkeys. Not your circus. Let your stbxw do as she wants. Other than a clean D, she is no longer you problem in all other matters.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Let her buy a private plane with her settlement if it keeps her from contesting it. All she's doing is burning through her money faster, making her inevitable collapse come that much sooner. In a few months, your biggest problem will be fighting the urge to feel sorry for her.


----------



## donesies

Somebody on this thread mentioned an intriguing proposition that I can’t quite shake: I have these journal entries that she is desperate to get back. Once the divorce is gone through and the smoke is clear, can I negotiate a nondisclosure in exchange for dropping alimony or some other demand?

People are saying that it is blackmail, but I don’t think that it’s illegal. I could be wrong. It’s possible she has some dirt on me as well so I have to consider...


----------



## dubsey

There's only 1 reason she wants those back - to change history. 

Never give them up.

Never.

Ever.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> Somebody on this thread mentioned an intriguing proposition that I can’t quite shake: I have these journal entries that she is desperate to get back. Once the divorce is gone through and the smoke is clear, can I negotiate a nondisclosure in exchange for dropping alimony or some other demand?
> 
> People are saying that it is blackmail, but I don’t think that it’s illegal. I could be wrong. It’s possible she has some dirt on me as well so I have to consider...


You are going to pay no matter what. There is no getting out of it. If you use the journal against her for your personal gain, that sounds like blackmail to me. It's not like you have a tangible item of hers that you are trading, like a cat or a china cabinet. You have personal information that you are considering using against her. 

If it were me, I'd hang onto the journal entries for security and not discuss it with her again. If she brings it up, ignore her. Do not mention again that you have them. Do not talk about them with her again.

According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
Blackmail is "extortion or coercion by threats especially of public exposure or criminal prosecution."

Do you know of any dirt she could possibly have on you? Do you have any skeleton you should be concerned about?


----------



## 3putt

donesies said:


> Somebody on this thread mentioned an intriguing proposition that I can’t quite shake: I have these journal entries that she is desperate to get back. Once the divorce is gone through and the smoke is clear, can I negotiate a nondisclosure in exchange for dropping alimony or some other demand?
> 
> People are saying that it is blackmail, but I don’t think that it’s illegal. I could be wrong. It’s possible she has some dirt on me as well so I have to consider...


If she had any dirt on you she would've thrown it in your face by now to try and keep you at bay. She's got nothing.


----------



## Cynthia

The whole idea of giving her the photos you took is silly anyway. These are digital files we're talking about. Giving them to her would mean you save a copy to another device. She would have no way of knowing if you had them on yet another device or not. It makes no sense for her to ask for them. You'd have to give her your phone since that's what you used to take the photos. And still you could have them on any number of devices. You could have posted them on the internet for all she knows.

I wouldn't tell her this. If she doesn't already know it, she's not very bright.


----------



## Chuck71

3putt said:


> If she had any dirt on you she would've thrown it in your face by now to try and keep you at bay. She's got nothing.


I completely agree. Do NOT return those journals..... because.... when "her" money runs out

and if she has no current prospects, she will "envision" things you did.... I do mean envision

By then... you are a respected Doc, on several boards, chair of boards, chairing volunteer groups, etc

maybe getting serious with a healthy female who has her sheet together and is there to help

you, not hinder you. How'd it look if these "envisions" came up and you had nothing to bargain with?

Speaking from a guy's PoV, me and all the guys I have known, the majority of XW who cheated,

want to come back. Now the rub.... because their AP booted them, their AP cheated on THEM 

(I still laugh at this), their friends and family deserted them, or in your case, the money runs out

and there's no guy around to "take up payments." How about those wanting to make amends and

prove they made a grave mistake? Not too many....

Doc.... you're a doc, not a manual laborer or a bartender.... your image in the community is critical,

to you AND the hospital. I know your STBXW isn't the sharpest crayon in the box but, the first rule in 

warfare is to never ever underestimate your opponent.


----------



## eric1

Never ever give the journals up. Ever. Don’t even mention them if she confronts you.

When you are 100% out legally then expose her wide and large. Do NOT use the journals for this. But she will not be able to fight back as she knows that you both know that you possess a silver bullet


----------



## Mizzbak

Done,

When you put effort into shaking mud off your shoes, you move right along from that - preferably keeping out of any future muddy patches. You don't continue to smear your shoes in it. And you certainly don't sit down and rub your fingers through it.

Pay your STBXW what she is legally due (as you agreed to) ... and move on with a clear heart and mind. Don't allow her ****ty moral choices to compromise your own integrity. 

IMO, if you tried to hold something over her head, apart from being illegal, it would also look like you were just being desperate - trying to to hold on to her and control her in any way you could. Which, honestly, is a bit pathetic. You don't have to give her the journal copies if you don't want to ... especially if you think that you might need them to protect your reputation. But you also don't have to weaponise them. Put them in a safe place and forget about them. Hopefully you'll never need them.

And you need to work on doing something else with your time. Something just for you, that brings you joy. You're giving her far more mental space than she deserves.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Somebody on this thread mentioned an intriguing proposition that I can’t quite shake: I have these journal entries that she is desperate to get back. Once the divorce is gone through and the smoke is clear, can I negotiate a nondisclosure in exchange for dropping alimony or some other demand?
> 
> People are saying that it is blackmail, but I don’t think that it’s illegal. I could be wrong. It’s possible she has some dirt on me as well so I have to consider...


Those pictures are yours. You can do whatever you want with them. When the journal was in the home you both owned it. You took pics that you now own. She moved out and signed for divorce. She never made journal pics a stipulation. Pics are yours. If she wishes to enter into a contract with you buying them in the future that that is a simple contract between 2 private parties. 

There is no blackmail. We aren't talking sex videos here nor is she a celebrity where she can scream professional harm. Nor was her journal protected as part of being a known published author's works of art not yet copyrighted. She is a run of the mill cheater. There is no 'right to privacy' for cheaters from spouses in one's home home for hand written papers left in plain sight. 

She approaches you name a price. She is free to accept or decline. She starts yapping about what are you going to do with it say none of your business. No threat, no extortion, no blackmail. Watch out for her VARs, don't get baited. 

Now, all that being said if you use those photos in a public arena she may try to claim emotional distress, emotional harm , blah blah blah. That you have to be careful with local laws with that one. especially the EU. But not in good ole USA for the most part yet. 

If she publicly on FB makes any statements to anyone (who forwards to you) concerning why she is divorced and she leaves out other man you are free to counter. Or you can simply post. She is free to claim it hurt her. Then it all can be read out loud in open court and front paged on the Daily News. LOL.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Donesies,
You are receiving a lot of advice to take care of yourself and heal. Good advice. But you need to allow yourself to process your grief. There are no short cuts or bypasses. Though you should start the separation as fast and surgically as possible, you must also acknowledge and process your feelings, even ones about her. When we are betrayed by our spouses in this way we cannot simply up and walk away and avoid the fall out. We have to pay the toll.

My exwife and I married and divorced twice. Both divorces were due to her infidelity. The first time I allowed myself time to heal and recover. It took about 15 months. The second time I thought I was okay because she had already put me through the ringer once and I wasn't going to let it happen again. D-day was August of 2016. I felt okay and avoided processing the grief for four months. Then in December of 2016 it hit me again like a ton of bricks. I had thought I was okay, but in realty I had been suppressing my grief., deferring the inevitable. I tried to move too fast ahead. 

Everyone recovers at a different rate. In my case I was in a 25 year marriage, and I believed to my core that the bonds of marriage are indissoluble so my recovery was lengthy. The important thing imo is when a betrayed spouse divorces he or she should go through all of the stages of grief--denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance--and then move forward. If you don't you will carry a lot of unwanted baggage. Best wishes for a proper recovery.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies:

1. I had suggested the use of the journals as ammunition against her using dirt against you.

2. My mother always said, "If you don't want the world to know something, don't put it in writing."

3. If she wants them erased, I would not even respond to that. 

4. These should always hang over her head as a "Sword of Damocles". Her fear of their release should prevent her backsliding.

5. On the other hand, I don't think you should use them in financial negotiations as that reeks of blackmail.

6. Remember, you are *Simba*. Stay noble.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

For the criminal act of blackmail he has to make the demand pay me or I expose. Then that has to be proven in court. Forget he said, she said. Tangible evidence like emails, texts etc. Saying nothing except I will sell them for this price is not blackmail. Again, in any conversation with her record it. If D is on a state that forbids recording just refuse to meet her. Tell her all correspondence goes through email. 

As far as nobility she could be noble and not except the alimony. That would be noble. 

She was not noble and he owes her zero consideration beyond what the law dictates. She is just a stranger now. No more, no less. Except that she is collecting severance pay from D for the next 3 years.


----------



## 3putt

This blackmail crap is getting so blown out of proportion that it's just ridiculous. He doesn't have to do anything but sit on it. If she makes inquiries about it, just ignore. If she comes right out again and asks, just ignore. Just ignore.....just like she did with @donesies when she embarked on this carpet ride of deception and adultery.

The power he has over her is her knowing that he can expose her for what she truly is whenever he chooses to do so....or not.

It's all psychological, and very, very powerful. Don't make it out to be more than that.


----------



## Chuck71

3putt said:


> This blackmail crap is getting so blown out of proportion that it's just ridiculous. He doesn't have to do anything but sit on it. If she makes inquiries about it, just ignore. If she comes right out again and asks, just ignore. Just ignore.....just like she did with @donesies when she embarked on this carpet ride of deception and adultery.
> 
> The power he has over her is her knowing that he can expose her for what she truly is whenever he chooses to do so....or not.
> 
> It's all psychological, and very, very powerful. Don't make it out to be more than that.


Most TAM folk would call it....... leverage, a bargaining chip, a counter measure. Or karma...


----------



## skerzoid

Well, well, well. It seems that I fed the good doctor some bad advice. What was I thinking? Nobility? Donesies should just disregard my advice and skin her alive. I had been hoping that he could get past the devastation stage and get to the anger that he needs to stiffen up. She deserves it after all. 

I was under the impression that he felt that he had shot her a lowball deal and that she was satisfied with it. And everyone here raved about what a good deal he had made for himself. After all, he'll make over a million bucks over the next two years.

And I was the first one to point out that the documents could be used for leverage if she tried any BS, and I still believe that. Nobility doesn't require him to be a doormat. She should just take the bed she has made and lie in it.

I was unaware that I was foolish for believing that he could come out of this with a good self image and begin healing as quickly as possible. Stupid me. And Doc really shouldn't run this idea past his attorney, he's obviously a hack with the advice he's given Donesies so far.

I am an old, old, football coach. One of the most true tenets in that profession is "Don't take points off the board in hopes that you can get more." 

Donesies, if your attorney feels this is something you should do, do it. He's the professional. Otherwise, stay your course.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

skerzoid said:


> And I was the first one to point out that the documents could be used for leverage if she tried any BS, and I still believe that. Nobility doesn't require him to be a doormat. She should just take the bed she has made and lie in it.


No, that was me in post #631. >


----------



## skerzoid

Tatsuhiko said:


> No, that was me in post #631. >


Hey, check post #587. I think we have all been hammering on this! :wink2:


----------



## skerzoid

:scratchheadouble post Sorry


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Sorry about the rant. Just be sure and check all tactics and strategies with your lawman.


----------



## DjDjani

Hi. You are a good looking doctor with nice house and good job. Your future will be great! Yiu will find a good wife who will be fatefull and she will give you the children, and when the moment came when you hold your baby in the arms, you will then see how lucky you were and how life is better now than before with your stbxwife. Be strong and take care.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> Somebody on this thread mentioned an intriguing proposition that I can’t quite shake: I have these journal entries that she is desperate to get back. Once the divorce is gone through and the smoke is clear, can I negotiate a nondisclosure in exchange for dropping alimony or some other demand?
> 
> People are saying that it is blackmail, but I don’t think that it’s illegal. I could be wrong. It’s possible she has some dirt on me as well so I have to consider...


First, what sort of dirt _could_ she have on you?

Second, what did you offer in terms of alimony?

Third, I wouldn’t delete them until the divorce is done and the terms are carved in stone.

Fourth, we’re the wrong people to ask — check with your attorney.


----------



## Rick Blaine

DjDjani said:


> You will find a good wife who will be fatefull and she will give you the children, and when the moment came when you hold your baby in the arms, you will then see how lucky you were and how life is better now than before.


He will definitely have a large pool to fish from given his status. But he's got to pick well when the time comes. There are a lot of sharks in that pool who are like his current wife. One of the takeaways here is that sometimes in reality trophy wives do not even measure up to consolation prizes. Finding someone of good character and a pure heart is important. Calibrate the picker.


----------



## survivorwife

donesies said:


> Somebody on this thread mentioned an intriguing proposition that I can’t quite shake: I have these journal entries that she is desperate to get back. Once the divorce is gone through and the smoke is clear, can I negotiate a nondisclosure in exchange for dropping alimony or some other demand?
> 
> People are saying that it is blackmail, but I don’t think that it’s illegal. I could be wrong. It’s possible she has some dirt on me as well so I have to consider...


No. Once the divorce is final, and all settlement arrangements have gone through the court, you can't "side-step" and renegotiate outside of the court's decision. Hold tight to possession of the journal entries until the divorce is final and the ink is dry, then dispose of them at your leisure by whatever means you like. Do not risk trying to renegotiate a final divorce settlement outside of the court, or you will open yourself up to having her use THAT against you.


----------



## donesies

GusPolinski said:


> First, what sort of dirt _could_ she have on you?
> 
> Second, what did you offer in terms of alimony?
> 
> Third, I wouldn’t delete them until the divorce is done and the terms are carved in stone.
> 
> Fourth, we’re the wrong people to ask — check with your attorney.


1. Hard to say. Nothing in terms of infidelity and nothing illegal. I have said things about others that were not necessarily nice and I really don't want them to get out. I'm no saint, so there could be SOMETHING. 

2. Less than 5% of my income.

3. and 4. Noted


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> 1. Hard to say. Nothing in terms of infidelity and nothing illegal. I have said things about others that were not necessarily nice and I really don't want them to get out. I'm no saint, so there could be SOMETHING.
> 
> 2. Less than 5% of my income.
> 
> 3. and 4. Noted


Let me clarify my last post —

I wouldn’t delete the pics, but I also wouldn’t threaten to use them against her in any way. In fact, I wouldn’t acknowledge their existence at all, at least not to her. I’d ignore any questions or comments that she makes concerning them. Don’t take ANY of her calls, and if she texts or emails you asking about them, ignore it. If she texts or emails you 3 questions and one of them is about the pictures, ignore it — answer the other two if you like, but don’t respond to anything involving the pics. Don’t take that bait.


----------



## donesies

survivorwife said:


> No. Once the divorce is final, and all settlement arrangements have gone through the court, you can't "side-step" and renegotiate outside of the court's decision. Hold tight to possession of the journal entries until the divorce is final and the ink is dry, then dispose of them at your leisure by whatever means you like. Do not risk trying to renegotiate a final divorce settlement outside of the court, or you will open yourself up to having her use THAT against you.


So obviously tying it directly to alimony is not a good idea, but what about just saying "I want XYZ for them?"


----------



## naiveonedave

donesies said:


> So obviously tying it directly to alimony is not a good idea, but what about just saying "I want XYZ for them?"


akin to blackmail. You need legal advice here.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

I think the real value of the "evidence" is to keep her to the original agreement & also to protect yourself. 

Anything you could get for it otherwise would not seem to have the value that their mere existence would have to you.

What is your lawyer's opinion of this?


----------



## dubsey

donesies said:


> So obviously tying it directly to alimony is not a good idea, but what about just saying "I want XYZ for them?"


Personally, I'd just quit talking about them, and I wouldn't use them for anything. If she keeps bringing it up, I wouldn't offer a trade for anything. Just flat out say, You have no intention on using them for anything other than a reminder of how terrible she was to you. However, If she chooses to try and alter reality, they'll be there to clarify the reality of the situation to anyone who may have a different picture about what actually happened.

Never give them up. Never.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> So obviously tying it directly to alimony is not a good idea, but what about just saying "I want XYZ for them?"


What is it that you want? You’ve already laid out your terms and she’s seemingly accepted them.

What do you want that you’ve not already told her?


----------



## donesies

GusPolinski said:


> What is it that you want? You’ve already laid out your terms and she’s seemingly accepted them.
> 
> What do you want that you’ve not already told her?


If we're being honest, I don't want to have to give her ANYTHING. She sucker punched me and I hate seeing her profit. 

Obviously the court is not going to go for giving her NOTHING. So the question is....AFTER this process, could I negotiate something that would bring me closer to that??


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> If we're being honest, I don't want to have to give her ANYTHING. She sucker punched me and I hate seeing her profit.
> 
> Obviously the court is not going to go for giving her NOTHING. So the question is....AFTER this process, could I negotiate something that would bring me closer to that??


Very doubtful. And, as others have already pointed out, any attempts to achieve such an outcome via those means would likely be considered extortion.

I get your anger (believe me), but you need to look at the bigger picture — 5% is relatively NOTHING, especially where alimony is concerned. Count yourself lucky that she took that deal and pray that it sticks, because you could have been on the hook for _*SOOOOO*_ much more.

For how long did you agree to pay alimony?


----------



## donesies

GusPolinski said:


> What is it that you want? You’ve already laid out your terms and she’s seemingly accepted them.
> 
> What do you want that you’ve not already told her?





GusPolinski said:


> Very doubtful. And, as others have already pointed out, any attempts to achieve such an outcome via those means would likely be considered extortion.
> 
> I get your anger (believe me), but you need to look at the bigger picture — 5% is relatively NOTHING, especially where alimony is concerned. Count yourself lucky that she took that deal and pray that it sticks, because you could have been on the hook for _*SOOOOO*_ much more.
> 
> For how long did you agree to pay alimony?


3 years


----------



## drifting on

I’m with Gus on this, but if you are not seeking anything monetarily, I would say you’ve made packets to give to anyone who doesn’t know the truth. Or anyone who says you cheated and not her, strictly as a truth of events. Of course this would be well after the divorce is finalized, nothing before and no acknowledging such items exist. Seek advice from your attorney, even if you do expose this to anyone.


----------



## WasDecimated

donesies said:


> 1. Hard to say. Nothing in terms of infidelity and nothing illegal. I have said things about others that were not necessarily nice and I really don't want them to get out. I'm no saint, so there could be SOMETHING.
> 
> 2. Less than 5% of my income.
> 
> 3. and 4. Noted


Less than 5% of your income! I hope you realize how cheap you're getting off. I had to pay almost 35% of my income for 5 years. That does not include handing over 1/3 of my investments and Retirement and buying her out of the house!

You're doing great Donesies. Hold your course and stand your ground. In short time, this will be just a distant bad memory.


----------



## ButtPunch

WasDecimated said:


> Less than 5% of your income! I hope you realize how cheap you're getting off. I had to pay almost 35% of my income for 5 years. That does not include handing over 1/3 of my investments and Retirement and buying her out of the house!
> 
> You're doing great Donesies. Hold your course and stand your ground. In short time, this will be just a distant bad memory.


Agreed

Get the deal you have got finalized

Move on with your life


----------



## bandit.45

donsies the purpose of keeping those texts and files is security against her trash talking you or trying to destroy your rep in the future...during and after the divorce. She will be re-writing the marital history and telling anyone who will listen that you were a controlling, abusive boor. She may even try to lie and tell everyone you cheated on her. So tell her she can either play nice and be friendly when it comes to talking about you in public, or you will be more than happy to disseminate said evidence to key players in her life to prove she is lying.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies
Given that she settled for the lowball offer, I do not think you will get a better deal. To be honest, re-opening this may bring about revised demands from her. You may not feel as if she is suffering consequences from this, but re-opening a quickie agreement may be tantamount to cutting off your nose to spite your face. She is gone, and now it is time to erase her totally from your life and move on. Sir, you are in an enviable position: You are self described as in good physical shape, you make a damned good income, you appear to be a good man. Your value on the open market is sky high, whereas your ex is used, has issues, and will get old damned quickly. Her value is somewhat less. She, I am sure, will realize what she pissed away, when one fine day, she sees you with a new partner and hopefully children, living a nice upper class life (my kid is a physician, I know what a Dr. makes, and your ex, to be frank is a complete and total idiot-brings back a line from MASH. Hotlips is remarking about a physician she dated, and dumped. Then she sees a picture of the house and wife, and says for that kind of money, I could have loved him.) 

After re-reading everything here, I have come to the conclusion that your ex wife is nothing more than a sniveling coward. She took the lowball offer because she knew she f*cked up royally, and did not really want to face the music. Give her her half mil, let her choke on it. Call it the price of emancipation.

Right now, you are hurt and want a pound of flesh in return. Don't bother, she will get it. I have been around one or two who realize that they just screwed themselves out of a massive difference in lifestyle, and shlt themselves.


----------



## cc48kel

I agree.. Compared to what your making, that's a nice deal for you!! I understand that she was the one who messed up royally and doesn't desserve a thing. But the courts don't see it that way. Just pay it and move on! You have much better things to work and focus on. Continue healing and learn to let go. Take it out on a work-out!


----------



## bandit.45

Taxman said:


> After re-reading everything here, I have come to the conclusion that your ex wife is nothing more than a sniveling coward. She took the lowball offer because she knew she f*cked up royally, and did not really want to face the music.


This is exactly what happened in a nutshell. She was too proud and too entrenched in her own foggy camp to be contrite and do what she needed to do to save the marriage. She showed her true colors. Instead of standing tall, taking her lumps, and asking her husband to forgive her, she chose to flip him the bird and run off like the coward she is.


----------



## donesies

I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.

I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


----------



## CantBelieveThis

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


I know how you feel, most of us betrayed feel exactly the same way, how could they be doing this, what have they turn into??? 
Rest assured your feelings are completely normal and you are not alone by far.....you basically lost your wife and marriage, and grieving for it is a natural and a required part of the human mind self healing ability, don't fight it, let it flow. But know this, the world does move on and so will you, you will come out stronger and wiser.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## jlg07

"I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!" This is a GOOD thing. Do you want someone of her immoral fiber to be linked to your name??


----------



## Taxman

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


Sir, this hurts like a son of a b*tch, and for good reason, it is in this manner that you will avoid entanglements with a woman of low character. Unfortunately, you discovered her portrait of Dorian Gray, after you were married. She is a coward, and a low human. Consider the $500K a payment on getting your life back. Just as if you had to pay for a heart transplant, you paid for a love transplant. The love you thought you had, grew into a malignant tumor. You paid a surgeon $500K to remove the tumor. Your new life for the next little while will feel like chemo, and you will get healthy. The good news is, you also paid to get yourself out of a lifetime sentence. Could you imagine ten years down the road, she could have attached way more of your assets, and if there were kids involved? You would be her indentured servant for decades. No. You got off cheap. Take it and run.

Doctor, I am now working with the betrayed spouse of an OB/GYN. He went into medschool not because it was a noble pursuit, but for the money. His personality screams, that he is out for himself. He has already been censured for an inappropriate relationship with a patient, he took his mistress on his goddamned honeymoon (talk about a sociopath), and finally, I have never seen anyone put up as much fuss over a clearly fair settlement. (Because, day after we signed, he announced his engagement, not to his mistress, but a naive nurse.) You sir, are obviously dedicated, and to a certain extent naive. You believed in love, and your ex did not.

You dodged a major bullet here. Take a few months to reassess your life, lifeplan and circumstances. Take a hard look at what makes you happy. Then live that best life. Your ex is a coward. Cowards die a thousand deaths, the brave, but one.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


She has lost her mind. Adultery is a voluntary psychosis. She has had to rewrite your marital history to fit her new reality. Her mind would pop if she didn't. 

Human beings do sh*tty things to each other my friend, especially to those they purport to love the most. It is what humans do. It's just a fact of life you have to accept and learn to live with. 

There is good news and bad news: 

The bad news is....you will never be the same. Ever. 

The good news? This person will be gone from your life and hopefully there will be no more bad news after the D.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies::

1. Any news from the OBS? As you did it anonymously, the OM has probably gaslighted his spouse that this is a prank by someone. After all, who could believe that a Doctor's wife would take up with a pauper? She would have to be an idiot to do something so foolish.

2. It seems that the anger has started to come. This is actually good. Its better than the devastating pain, though that will be around for quite awhile. Use the anger to detach and to ignore her. Remember, they are hyenas. They are beneath you. 

3. Doc, you have a real life ahead of you. She does not. Go out and have some fun. Take your wedding ring off. Give some gals the eye. Get a new sports car. You will probably be amazed when the word gets out how women will go out of their way to meet you. Get a good looking one and take her to the "club". Nothing serious. Just get your balls back. :wink2:


----------



## Taxman

The upshot of all of this? I sincerely believe that donesies wife is deep deep into the affair fog. If the affair continues, and we all know it won't, she will leave donesies alone. My bet is that she will awaken from the fog within a six to eight month timeframe. Even less if the AP dumps her, and given he is married, it will happen. It will hit her like a blunt object to the cranium. By that time, the divorce will be nearly if not already final. She will see that she walked away from a life of luxury for peanuts, and she will run, not walk, to donesies, begging forgiveness, and willing to do just about anything to get him back (I suggest that she invent a time machine, construct it, and go back in time to prevent her affairs). By that time the feeling of his **** inside her will dissipate and she will be left with that WTF feeling. You know the one where you just blew up your life for not one solid good reason other than a quick f*ck with a fat greasy bald guy. She pissed on millions for a few squirts of semen. Smart.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies::
> 
> 1. Any news from the OBS? As you did it anonymously, the OM has probably gaslighted his spouse that this is a prank by someone. After all, who could believe that a Doctor's wife would take up with a pauper? She would have to be an idiot to do something so foolish.
> 
> 2. It seems that the anger has started to come. This is actually good. Its better than the devastating pain, though that will be around for quite awhile. Use the anger to detach and to ignore her. Remember, they are hyenas. They are beneath you.
> 
> 3. Doc, you have a real life ahead of you. She does not. Go out and have some fun. Take your wedding ring off. Give some gals the eye. Get a new sports car. You will probably be amazed when the word gets out how women will go out of their way to meet you. Get a good looking one and take her to the "club". Nothing serious. Just get your balls back. :wink2:


On the last point: can I do this? Is it ok to date at this point? Obviously, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want people to think I'm cheating. 

Just curious your thoughts.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> On the last point: can I do this? Is it ok to date at this point? Obviously, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want people to think I'm cheating.
> 
> Just curious your thoughts.


I don't think it's healthy to go into a new relationship before the old relationship is completed and over, as in the divorce is final. While you are still working out the end of a relationship, you are still bound to the other person in some ways, which is not good for forming new relationships. Even if you are only dating for some companionship and fun times, you are very vulnerable at this stage. I recommend working on personal healing. Be alone for a while a grow as a person. Don't be one of those people who doesn't feel okay by himself and always has to be part of a couple to feel happy or satisfied.


----------



## dubsey

donesies said:


> On the last point: can I do this? Is it ok to date at this point? Obviously, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want people to think I'm cheating.
> 
> Just curious your thoughts.


I wouldn't go out looking for it, but if someone found out you were newly, or about to be single and was aware of your situation in some form, and wanted to hang out socially, I wouldn't avoid it.


----------



## Thor

donesies said:


> So obviously tying it directly to alimony is not a good idea, but what about just saying "I want XYZ for them?"


I have a different thought on the photos of her journal. Everybody knows photos today are digital and can be copied instantly. There is literally no way to have any assurance copies have been destroyed. Her asking for the pictures back is meaningless _if her goal is to keep the information secret_. That is, you could always have copies hidden away and use them later on.

It is silly and stupid for her to be asking for the pictures back if she is trying to protect the information in them.

*So why is she asking for them*? It could be to prove that you have them. But you already know she's cheated, and you're already divorcing her, so I don't see an angle where she is trying to figure out how much you know about the affair.

So it could be there is much more in the journal which you didn't see yet. Or it could be some kind of jeopardy to you if you admit to having those pictures in the first place. You providing her the pictures would inform her what you know about, and/or it would be proof you had them.

I don't see any benefit ever to you for acknowledging you have the photos or in giving them to her. Just STFU about them to her. Keep in mind she could be wearing a VAR if she tries to talk to you about them.


----------



## Thor

donesies said:


> On the last point: can I do this? Is it ok to date at this point? Obviously, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want people to think I'm cheating.
> 
> Just curious your thoughts.


I personally think it is cleaner if you avoid any romance or sex until the divorce is finalized, unless you're in one of those states that take a year.

Emotionally you need some time to heal. Six months is not out of bounds for that. Some purely social things like coffee would be fine, but I would avoid the serious dates. Be sure you are up front with the woman if you do go out on a real date that you are recently and suddenly out of a marriage, and not looking for anything serious or permanent. I like the idea of socializing at events of common interest rather than dating for a while.

Your stbxw is likely to be unhappy if she hears you are dating or having sex with other women. From that standpoint I would keep things very private until there is no legal avenue for her to try to change the terms of divorce.


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## TeddieG

skerzoid said:


> Donesies::
> 
> 
> 2. It seems that the anger has started to come. This is actually good. Its better than the devastating pain, though that will be around for quite awhile. Use the anger to detach and to ignore her. Remember, they are hyenas. They are beneath you.


Yes, I agree with THIS. And it IS good.


----------



## honcho

As much as alimony amount sticks in your craw you are getting off cheap compared to what you potentially could be on the hook for. I'd even suggest as an option if your looking at 5% over 3 years can you swing just a lump sum payment. That way you'd be done and you'd have no financial ties or involvement with her forward. The problem is a year or two from now after she realizes she could have received more and make headaches for you later with dragging you into court looking for more. 

The other part, while paying her irritates you you'll find being reminded each month for the next three years that will annoy you even more. It used to just burn my butt every month seeing that deduction on my paycheck and being reminded of the divorce.


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## skerzoid

Donesies:

3. Doc, you have a real life ahead of you. She does not. Go out and have some fun. Take your wedding ring off. Give some gals the eye. Get a new sports car. You will probably be amazed when the word gets out how women will go out of their way to meet you. Get a good looking one and take her to the "club". Nothing serious. Just get your balls back. :wink2:[/QUOTE]

You will note I said nothing serious. And if no one knows what is going on, you may want to hold on. But I would think that it will become common knowledge fairly soon. If she has changed her name back to Mary Jane Beavershot, I would think people would start noticing and start asking questions. "Oh hi Mary Jane, where's the Doc?" "Hey Doc, why don't you and the little woman come over for the Easter Egg Hunt and Barbecue?"

But take it as slow as you feel you are up to. And like I said, as soon as the word gets out, "WHO is single now?!?!", you are going to have to beat them away with a stick. You will want to be selective, but by golly, what a problem to have!! 

After all, if Fatboy could get your wife's attention, guess whats going to be coming after you? 0


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


Most in your situation project their feelings onto the wayward. She doesn't have any love for you. That's why she's moving on so fast.

The she you thought you knew was just a figment of your imagination.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


As odd as it sounds, she's hurting too. Not that it's justified or rational, of course. But recall that she called you in tears asking "Can't we talk about this?" She's actually angry and indignant about how quickly you ended it, as insane as that sounds. You were supposed to come to her, listen to all the things you'd done wrong as a husband, apologize profusely, and beg for her to take you back and reject the other man. I think she's changing her name back intentionally to teach you some kind of lesson. But the real lesson here is that she's a selfish, lying turd who was never worthy of you. In a year you'll come back here and tell us how great your life is going, and how glad you are to be rid of her. Mark my words.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 3. Doc, you have a real life ahead of you. She does not. Go out and have some fun. Take your wedding ring off. Give some gals the eye. Get a new sports car. You will probably be amazed when the word gets out how women will go out of their way to meet you. Get a good looking one and take her to the "club". Nothing serious. Just get your balls back. :wink2:


You will note I said nothing serious. And if no one knows what is going on, you may want to hold on. But I would think that it will become common knowledge fairly soon. If she has changed her name back to Mary Jane Beavershot, I would think people would start noticing and start asking questions. "Oh hi Mary Jane, where's the Doc?" "Hey Doc, why don't you and the little woman come over for the Easter Egg Hunt and Barbecue?"

But take it as slow as you feel you are up to. And like I said, as soon as the word gets out, "WHO is single now?!?!", you are going to have to beat them away with a stick. You will want to be selective, but by golly, what a problem to have!! 

*After all, if Fatboy could get your wife's attention, guess whats going to be coming after you?* 0[/QUOTE]

Not sure I got that last part....


----------



## Cynthia

skerzoid said:


> After all, if Fatboy could get your wife's attention, guess whats going to be coming after you? 0





donesies said:


> Not sure I got that last part....


He means that it doesn't take a lot to get the attention of some women and if your stbxw's OM could get her attention, surely you will not have trouble getting the attention of women. 

I would like to add that while you should have no trouble gaining the attention of women, remember that you are looking for a woman of good character above all else. If all you're looking for is attention, that is not hard to come by.


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## cc48kel

I would go have fun... Buy something for yourself. Go on vacation and walk the beach. Spend time with friends and family. Enjoy your life. Not sure I would be dating at this point, but sure take someone out to lunch.. No harm in that! Just celebrate that you are basically/almost free. I would! Many ppl are in this stage for YEARS but not you.. It's been a month!! Yes, unbelievable, it really is. But I would have a party ( I think we all feel that way for you).


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## skerzoid

Donesies:

Sorry if I was being crude. I just want you to heal. I want you to go on and have the best life you can for that will be the greatest outcome possible. I think you have a great life ahead of you. 

Most of us here have felt the same pain of rejection and betrayal. For myself, one month after being betrayed by a woman that I took back many times, I finally got the guts to dump her for good.

A month later, I met the woman that gave me a great family and a great life. We will celebrate 48 years together this year...... She's still the sexiest woman I know and her name will be on my lips at the end. 

That's what is waiting for you out there. Go and get it. The world is yours.


----------



## Taxman

donesies said:


> On the last point: can I do this? Is it ok to date at this point? Obviously, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want people to think I'm cheating.
> 
> Just curious your thoughts.


Sir, you are an open wound right now. Please, you are way too fragile. Find friends and colleagues, go out for some beers, read, meditate (that is a godsend), take a class in something other than medicine (my girl did cooking class-she's an OB/GYN). Time to be your own best friend. Dating is for when you feel ready. Do not for one minute doubt that when a separated, soon to be divorced young physician is available, there will be a line up around the corner. You have absolutely nothing to worry about. You could be a hell of a lot uglier and still do well.


----------



## Chuck71

jlg07 said:


> "I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!" This is a GOOD thing. Do you want someone of her immoral fiber to be linked to your name??


Oh yes..... I offered Window Cork $100 to take back her maiden / previous married last name.

I should have made that a stipulation in the D but.... back then, I just wanted her outta my life.

Doc.... "wiggle easy until your head is out of the lion's mouth" She may get "greedy" and want

to renegotiate the 5% settlement agreement, claiming she was under duress when signing.

Tread water until everything is final.... then make a splash if you want to.


----------



## Rick Blaine

I recommend holding off on dating. Let yourself recover and lose the baggage of your current marriage so you are at your best when you are truly ready to reenter the fray. Also, some women would never date a married man. Those women are often good catches. Many who would date a married man --even one in the process of getting a divorce--are not.


----------



## VladDracul

WasDecimated said:


> Less than 5% of your income! I hope you realize how cheap you're getting off. I had to pay almost 35% of my income for 5 years. That does not include handing over 1/3 of my investments and Retirement and buying her out of the house!
> 
> You're doing great Donesies. Hold your course and stand your ground. In short time, this will be just a distant bad memory.


Like is said in the investment community, "Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered". You're on extremely thin ice Donesies. If I'm understanding correctly, you propose to use her journals to force a better deal for you after the court issues an order of dissolution in your marriage. The legal definition of coercion is the intimidation of a individual to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. Moreover, when it comes to publicly disclosing her private facts and thoughts, she likely has legal privacy protections. If embarrassing private facts are disclosed publicly, she may be able to take legal action against you for disclosed her private thoughts and writings.
You see where I'm going with this, don't you Donesies?


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> WasDecimated said:
> 
> 
> 
> Less than 5% of your income! I hope you realize how cheap you're getting off. I had to pay almost 35% of my income for 5 years. That does not include handing over 1/3 of my investments and Retirement and buying her out of the house!
> 
> You're doing great Donesies. Hold your course and stand your ground. In short time, this will be just a distant bad memory.
> 
> 
> 
> Like is said in the investment community, "Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered". You're on extremely thin ice Donesies. If I'm understanding correctly, you propose to use her journals to force a better deal for you after the court issues an order of dissolution in your marriage. The legal definition of coercion is the intimidation of a individual to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. Moreover, when it comes to publicly disclosing her private facts and thoughts, she likely has legal privacy protections. If embarrassing private facts are disclosed publicly, she may be able to take legal action against you for disclosed her private thoughts and writings.
> You see where I'm going with this, don't you Donesies?
Click to expand...

Yes. Thank you.


----------



## donesies

I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.

It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.

I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.

Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


----------



## tom72

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


You are doing it 100% right.

Look at all the other threads, being mr nice guy doesn't work

I suspect in a few months she'll be wanting to come back

It ****ing sucks


----------



## RonP

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


This is rough for you. She stopped being your wife when she stated her love for someone else in her journal. The speed with which she signed the settlement is very telling - she'd checked out a long time before. You would not be normal if you did not feel as you currently do but I am concerned for you. You have had no sleep and I bet you're planning to go to work and do procedures. Please don't, for your safety and that of your patients. Call your secretary, tell her to reschedule your diary and then your next call should be with your own physician.

Hang in there. It will not last forever.


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


It's really not complicated. You took away her control of you by asserting control of your individual future.
This is her way of taking back some of that control.

She'll also probably cut her hair if she hasn't already done so.

It's really that simple.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Proceed with the divorce, let her win you back. If you want to remarry, she will sign a generous prenuptial agreement to prove that she loves you more than money. The fact that she didn't come crawling back on her knees has just demonstrated her selfishness and immaturity. Honestly, what wife whose husband discovers she "loves" another man would not _expect_ divorce proceedings? It's the natural course of action. Yet her maturity level doesn't allow her to see past the "my privacy was violated, I've been wronged" trope.


----------



## stro

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


 sounds like you are feeling exactly the way you should feel in this situation. You were a faithful husband who loves his wife as he should. And she repayed that with a devastating betrayal. The truth is, your wife is the one who decided to end your marriage, not you. I can’t imagine how that feels. I think you are doing the right thing. If she had a mind toward reconciliation I imagine she would have made that clear to you. She would have dumped her lover and come crawling back to you BEGGING for forgiveness while being completely repentant. It sounds like she has yet to do that. What your wife did hurt. You are in a situation you did not ask to be in. You loved this woman and were faithful to her and she ripped your heart out. Because of that, I imagine this will continue to hurt for a while yet. The old adage of time healing all wounds is dumb, It doesn’t. It does however make them easier to bear. So give it some time. You will be ok.


----------



## dubsey

donesies said:


> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.


You're doing the right thing. It doesn't mean you'll necessarily never talk to her again. I divorced my wife, didn't say a word to her for the 6 months it took to finalize the divorce, and didn't hardly say a word that wasn't kid related for 9 months afterward.

We got back together, and have been together since. Not re-married, I'll never do that. The dynamic is different in a very good way for me, not always for her, and certainly very different from how we were when we were married. She misses the security of being married, but all I do is remind her that it was her choice at the time, and we move on.

It's equally, if not much more likely you're going to find someone how appreciates you more than your STBX did, and you'll never give her another thought as you move on in your happy life.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


Sadly, pain is a part of life

but you will heal and come out stronger.

It will take some time however.


----------



## lucy999

Hang in there. The pain will lessen with time. Do you really want to be with someone who spread her legs for someone other than you? She is soiled now. Do you really want someone so tainted?

And you act like taking her back is all your decision. It's not. What if she doesn't want to come back? You'll have reopened that wound again only to have to start back from square one. You did the right thing. Steer the course and barrel through the hurt. You can do it.


----------



## Hoosier

I recently posted an update on my original thread that goes back to 2011. (look for it under Hoosier) I, like you, took a pretty proactive approach on my divorce. I was divorced in something like 85 days. The whole time I wondered if I really wanted to do it, had a plan to reconcile once the divorce was final. I loved my wife, she was my high school sweetheart, she and I had three great kids. For over a year I asked myself continually, "How can she do this?" "How can she give this up?" The answer was given to me by my sister. "Sometimes crazy people do crazy things"

Your regrets, concerns, feelings are all totally normal. Get ready, not for the answers to your questions, but for the questions to go away, bad news is it takes time, for me more than a couple of years. 

The good news? There are plenty of really nice women out there! They are looking for you! And knowning now what you didnt know when you picked your wife, you should know what to look for and what to stay away from. Get/stay with some IC, keep busy (dosent seem to be an issue with you) enjoy your freedom. And dont have unprotected sex with anyone!

Good luck. It is going to get better, just going to take some time.


----------



## jlg07

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


Donesies, I am very sorry that you are going through this, but think of it this way:
"I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife." You love the person you THOUGHT she was and want THAT person to be your wife. After reading her journals, you should realize that she really is NOT the person you thought her to be AT ALL. You were in love with an image of her, not who she is in reality. IF she was the person you thought her to be, none of this would have happened. It's good that you now have the rose-colored glasses off and see what she really is (but that still doesn't reduce the pain your are in at all).


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


Donesies, she gave you no choice but to end it. Remember, she moved out instead of trying to fix the marriage. She gave you no choice but to file and finish it. She did not even look you in the eye and explain. She is a coward. No amount of name changes and new cars is going to change that. 

It is normal to feel uncertain and nostalgic and deeply deeply hurt. But these feelings will pass. 

Look for positive distractions. You mentioned dating, I say go for it but don't let it get too serious too soon. Think activity dates where you get to have fun and you are not reminded of your ex.


----------



## Bananapeel

Donesies, I didn't date during the divorce process because my head was too focused on the upheaval in my life to be fun to date. I tried dating a few months post divorce and I still wasn't ready because I was still so focused on being divorced and my XW's affair that I had nothing interesting to talk about. When you are at the point in your life that you are no longer wasting mental energy thinking about the XW or the divorce process, and you have new things going on that you are now focused on, then it is time to start dating. That usually takes a year or two post divorce. 

Now, there's nothing wrong with going out and having casual sex if you need to blow off steam. I hooked up with a couple of my female friends that didn't live close by to handle that. Turns out that just about all my single female friends must be attracted to me because they jumped at the chance (one literally jumped into my bed when I put out the offer) to hook up with me.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

You are an athlete and I am an old coach so I am going to speak in athlete/coach terms.

You have had a major injury. This injury is a set back to your dreams. This injury came at an unexpected time and under unforeseen circumstances. Your plans are ruined and your career on hold. You are devastated. 

Now you can quit, go home, sulk, & weep over what might have been. But I think I sense an inner strength in you. This injury will hurt for a long time but it will lessen to the point where it will be a memory of pain and agony.

Ignoring the pain is not realistic, but recovering from this injury will require a lot of rehab and reconstruction. As a dedicated athlete, you will have to rebuild yourself through hard work and dedication. 

Actually, the dream is not dead, not if you still want that dream. This dream may have changed a bit, but it is still attainable and worthwhile. 

1. You must find a professional therapist. This person must be someone who is experienced in your type of trauma. This professional will lead through the recovery process. This is not a "physician heal thy self" situation.

2. You may need pain medication to help with the pain. Do not prescribe these for yourself. Once again, see a professional and stick to their regimen.

3. You must set goals for yourself, some short term, some midrange, and some long range. Small victories will lead to greater ones down the road. Be strict with yourself.

4. Look to those with experience in your type of injury and seek their coaching. You are already doing this, but you are questioning their experience. Once again, you may feel that your injury is a once in a century type of happening, but there are many symptoms that are run of the mill with this situation. So far, you have been given excellent advice.

5. Look to examples of those athletes who have come back from injury to stand at the top of the winner's stand. My own personal favorite is Rocky Bleier of the Pittsburg Steelers. After a promising rookie season Bleier was drafted into the military and sent to Viet Nam. He received a debilitating leg injury that threatened his ability to even walk. His dreams were crushed. He returned to the US and underwent surgeries. He started weightlifting. He approached the Steelers about the possibility of coming back. Out of pity, they allowed him to workout with the team. After a couple of years he worked his way up to being a practice player. He increased his speed over that of his rookie year, which was unheard of. Eventually, he became an actual player. He led his team to victory in the SUPER BOWL. 

6. Doc, you can do this. I personally doubt that you can achieve your original goal with the same personnel on your team as before but you can achieve even greater happiness than was possible before this happened. Don't give up on and keep working on yourself. You have a world of happiness to gain.


----------



## WasDecimated

donesies said:


> I understand you guys are right - I should shut my mouth and take the settlement and move on. It’s all just so...unbelievable. How can this be happening?? I feel like she’s lost her mind and the pain is unbearable.
> 
> I saw that she started changing her name back to her maiden name on almost every financial account and website. That was quick!


*Good, she doesn't deserve to keep your name!*


----------



## WasDecimated

donesies said:


> On the last point: can I do this? Is it ok to date at this point? Obviously, I don't want to rush into anything. I don't want people to think I'm cheating.
> 
> Just curious your thoughts.


Donesies, you are going through Hell right now, take your time. There is no hurry. This is all still new to you. Give yourself time to recover, heal and process all that has happened. Remember, there is no need to replace what you lost right now. I wouldn't start dating until you honestly feel like you are emotionally centered again. Keep in mind, if you're still broken, you will attract broken women. Some guys don't mind playing with broken women for a while until they figure out what they really want. I'm not one of them.


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


Done,

You are going to have nights like this. You should plan on that, but they will get to be less and less frequent as more time passes. It is shocking and you have every right to feel what you are feeling.

If you were back together with her, everynight would be emotionally filled in your mind, just like last night - a form of internal torture because you would be only thinking about all the trust issues, the OM, what she did that day, did you ever get the full truth, will she do it again, and that last night's feeling would go on and on for years and years. You likely would suffer another D-Day and re-do all this again because that is what these type of people do.

She cheated and there is no getting around it. The way you are handling it, even with nights like last night, is the method of the least pain possible, and pain of the shortest duration.


----------



## donesies

I have a question for you guys:

I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't sent them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?

One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


----------



## WasDecimated

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


You ARE doing the right thing, believe that. 

A clean break is by far, that best way to deal with this. This pain will go away gradually. Time is your best friend right now. The more time that goes by, the farther away this will be until it's just a distant memory. One day, you will realize that you haven't thought of her for a full day, then a week, month...etc. 

I felt all the same way you are feeling now...from two XWW's! 

She isn't who you thought she was so you need to stop romanticizing your relationship with her. If you stayed, she would be a daily reminder to you of everything that she did. You could never look at her the same way or trust her again. You would never feel the pride a man should feel when he is with his faithful wife. This type of pain is far worse and will never go away. You will become filled with resentment for her and end up right back where you are now.


----------



## Hoosier

The letters are a good idea........ just dont send them to her! If you must, write the letters, print them out, walk over to a wall, and read the letter to the wall. Guaranteed you will get the same response as if you sent them to her. EXCEPT this way she wont be thinking what a loser you are, and get the satisfaction of knowing she is getting to you. 

Again, what you are going thru is typical, why you need to be seeing an IC.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't send them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I* know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband* when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


What proof do you have of that?


----------



## ButtPunch

Do not send the letters.

It may be therapeutic to write them but again do not ever send them to her.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies , has your attorney advise you on approximately when the divorce is final? As in when the judge signs and the clerk enters the judgement?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

I agree with BP, sending the letters is pointless.


----------



## Edmund

donsies
I do not buy that your discovery of the journal was unintentional or accidental. I think that it was left out for you, and her quick acceptance of the divorce, indicate this is all going exactly as she (and the "OM" friend) planned. She was checked out and wanted to get you to file for divorce so she didn't have to look like the bad guy. What she wrote in her journal may be all fictitious because the "OM" is poor and has a family, seems like an unlikely AP. There may be another OM waiting in the wings that you don't know about.

A lot of folks on here say write the letter(s) to her but do not send them. Either destroy them or put them away until you are in a better place.

Your giving her "personal freedoms" may be part of why she fell out of love with you.

Sorry for your misery.


----------



## Chuck71

Doc.... Bet the farm her thoughts were on you when she first started the affair. Every AP will tell you this. 

They tell you how nasty they feel, how horrible the act is, etc. Well.... that is why they "re-write history." If

not... their conscience will weigh on them. Let's see how this goes.....he don't listen to me, he is controlling,

we're not intimate "like we used to," he financially abuses me (aka emotional abuse, just with $ signs). 

Sorta like guilt tripping the OM / OW into the affair. I asked you about her childhood but you did not respond

That is your right.... but if this is "pattern" she suffered something in her childhood that did a # on her. Who

knows what it was......And instead of facing it (granted children rarely have solid coping mechanisms)... she

ran from it. Just like anything from your past, if it is not dealt with, it will rear its ugly head sometime in the

future. It's like an ingrown hair, if you don't deal with it, it will continue to grow. Of course you love who she

WAS... but what you are seeing is.... who she IS. Without the "mask" on. Maybe she was always this way

maybe you ignored the red flags. When you are under the control of love chemicals, you're "eyesight" is 20 /

200. If she loved you as she stated.... she would not have taken up with another man. Now Doc..... a 

question. (I believe you stated she could not have children) How did she react to the news? Did she 

desire children? Was she looking forward to being a mother? Did her behavior change afterwards?


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't send them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


I don't think sending any written documents is a good idea. Writing it out may be a good way to formalize your thoughts, but I would keep those internal. Like I said before, I would want one final closure discussion with her.... this may be bad advice, but I would need to have that.

She might show her true colors, and it would help you to move on. But at least you could call her out on her dragging you through the mud and threaten that you could do the same only much worse. I would really want hear her take on the situation.

All that said, I still would still default to waiting to do this until after the documents are all signed. It is going very well for you at the moment and you don't want to rock that boat.


----------



## bandit.45

Write the letters but don’t send them. Keep them for a year and them go back and re-read them and I guarantee you will be shocked what you read. 

Write them to get the feelings and thoughts out...as therapy. But do not send them. 

DO NOT SEND THEM. 

Give her silence. Dead silence. She doesn’t care how you feel or what you think of her. She has been detaching from you for a couple of years now. You just were not aware if it. She is a couple of years ahead of you in detachment. I guarantee you donesies, you could get run over by a cement truck tomorrow and it wouldn’t faze her.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> *I have not communicated with her AT ALL*, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't send them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


Keep it that way.

Look @donesies, You are obviously a smart dude, but you still seem to be under the illusion that you can communicate with this woman who used to be your wife like someone who actually gives a flying **** about you. She doesn't. She won't care what you say you did for her, or how much she stands to lose. All she will get out of those letters is that she is still in your head and she still has control. She'll know you are upset about this and will take great toxic joy in that. STAY NO CONTACT. If you think you will feel better after sending the letters, you won't because you are not taking into account the things she will say to twist the knife, and she will. You are under the very wrong assumption that she will respond like the loving wife you had when you married. That woman is dead, she died when she expressed her love to another man, grieve her loss and move on. DO NOT communicate with the beast that replaced her.


----------



## bandit.45

She was snatched away by aliens and replaced by a pod person


----------



## Malaise

She would love to read those letters.

She would also love to see you crawling back on your hands and knees.

And both of those actions would be the same to her.

Not that she wants you back, she just wants to see you grovel.

Write them and read them later as @bandit.45 advises. You'll be glad you didn't send them.

Your pain will lessen and you'll retain your self esteem.


----------



## lucy999

Do NOT send those letters.


----------



## cc48kel

Keep a journal for yourself and write all you want. It does feel good to get them on paper. I have pages and pages myself. I'm sure you were really good to her but for some reason, she decided to stray. You did nothing wrong and you need to believe that. She is trying to make herself feel better by telling herself and others that you were jealous and abusive, etc... I wouldn't waste my time trying to convince her. She knows what she did and you know the truth. I believe in the end she will deeply regret everything and by that time you will have learned to 'let go' and move on. Perhaps at that time, a discussion can occur.

I know you love her and it's difficult. As others have said this is the hardest part. But even if she begged to come back, you would not want her. For one, how could you ever trust her again? HOW??? How would you even know if she loves you or not? You still wouldn't sleep because you would be thinking about how it's not the same anymore.

This is for the best.. Keep journaling, keep working out, continue to talk with family and friends-they know you best! Hope your still going to therapy as it's so healthy for you. Walk the beach, take a nature hike, visit an animal shelter or even volunteer at one-- those animals need some love.  If your handy, help a family out. You are strong and you will be OK...


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> What proof do you have of that?


It's a gut feeling based on a few things.

She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good. 

Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies , has your attorney advise you on approximately when the divorce is final? As in when the judge signs and the clerk enters the judgement?


Yes. We're a couple months out.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> It's a gut feeling based on a few things.
> 
> She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good.
> 
> Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.


Are you still — assuming, of course, that you ever were — FB friends with any of their boyfriends/husbands?


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


As noted, this is completely normal. Your world has been turned upsidedown, and you feel like you have no control over it. But you lost her a long time ago. Actually, you never had the woman you thought you had in the first place.

The pain will lessen over time, but yes, it's awful while it's happening. If you're going through Hell, KEEP GOING.

One of the things I experienced was that having my marriage blown up through my ex's cheating was that it was a huge blow to my self-esteem. How could my judgement be so bad about someone I was so close to? How could someone trick and manipulate me so badly for so long? What kind of worthless person was I that someone would do this to me?

But it was my ex that was the problem, not me. My ex had no compunctions about taking advantage of my hard-working nature, my kindness, my trust.

You loved an illusion, and you're doing the right thing by making the end of the illusion official. 



donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't sent them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.





donesies said:


> It's a gut feeling based on a few things.
> 
> She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good.
> 
> Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.


Contacting her will just give her an opportunity to resume manipulating you. Don't bother. Writing the letters can be therapeutic to YOU - writing out how awesome a man and husband you were will remind you of the truth of your self-worth. But there are no magic words you could come up with that would change her fundamental personality, cowardice and selfishness.

Who cares if she's hiding? It's not like you talking to her would accomplish anything good for you.

As for her friends and possible slander, that's why you need to expose her affair and the end of your marriage to the world. Tell all your friends, acquaintances, professional organizations, etc, that you are getting divorced because she cheated on you. Be brief but honest.

You will find that friends whom you thought were mutual will pick a side, usually the person they are closest to, or knew first. There will be people who believe her lies and think you're horrible. She has to lie to them, or she won't have any friends left. Lying is what she does, as you just experienced first hand. That's probably why she's 'hiding' too, to put on a show of being the victim for her friends. But does their opinion really matter to you if you're not going to see them again?

There will be mutual friends who will refuse to pick a side, and claim that they will continue to be friends with both of you. Drop them from your life. You don't need friends who can't clearly tell right from wrong like that.


----------



## donesies

Chuck71 said:


> Doc.... Bet the farm her thoughts were on you when she first started the affair. Every AP will tell you this.
> 
> They tell you how nasty they feel, how horrible the act is, etc. Well.... that is why they "re-write history." If
> 
> not... their conscience will weigh on them. Let's see how this goes.....he don't listen to me, he is controlling,
> 
> we're not intimate "like we used to," he financially abuses me (aka emotional abuse, just with $ signs).
> 
> Sorta like guilt tripping the OM / OW into the affair. I asked you about her childhood but you did not respond
> 
> That is your right.... but if this is "pattern" she suffered something in her childhood that did a # on her. Who
> 
> knows what it was......And instead of facing it (granted children rarely have solid coping mechanisms)... she
> 
> ran from it. Just like anything from your past, if it is not dealt with, it will rear its ugly head sometime in the
> 
> future. It's like an ingrown hair, if you don't deal with it, it will continue to grow. Of course you love who she
> 
> WAS... but what you are seeing is.... who she IS. Without the "mask" on. Maybe she was always this way
> 
> maybe you ignored the red flags. When you are under the control of love chemicals, you're "eyesight" is 20 /
> 
> 200. If she loved you as she stated.... she would not have taken up with another man. Now Doc..... a
> 
> question. (I believe you stated she could not have children) How did she react to the news? Did she
> 
> desire children? Was she looking forward to being a mother? Did her behavior change afterwards?


Our inability to have children was one of the most devastating things either of us have ever experienced. It took the wind out of our sails.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies
Who would she be slagging you to? Her friends? Low people who got her to this position. They should not even remotely have any influence over how you live your life. In short: You are too good for them. Let them rot in hell along with your ex. If you were in your wife's shoes around these good for nothings, would you have compromised your morals and ethics for a little taste of strange? Of course not. These are lowlifes. These are people you will encounter later in your career, when their lives take the turn for the worse, and they come to you to cure the illnesses they accrued through bad behavior. You are well rid of your wife and her friends. DO NOT LOOK BACK.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> It's a gut feeling based on a few things.
> 
> She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good.
> 
> Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.


You know her better than anyone. Is she the type to be concerned with appearances and public propriety? If so you are probably correct in that that she is putting her spin if not downright lying as to why the sudden divorce. 

As far as hiding from you that is simply because she is a coward. A lying cowardly cheater. As far as that being 'not good' that is irrelevant. She is too much a coward to be honest with you and to answer that deep 'why' question gnawing inside of you. She does not have the guts. In the near future you will never get that from her. Accept that. Maybe someday in the far future she will fess up. By then you will be so far gone you might instinctively cut her off mid sentence, give her the finger and walk away. Or maybe not. By then it will be more about her relieving her conscious then doing anything worthwhile for you. 

As far as her FB friends de-friending you. Rather silly actually. Junior high school. But that is what some people do. You always lose 'friends' in a divorce. Consider it a blessing because rest assured, she is stalking you quietly on Facebook. Fewer 'mutual' friends now to do so. 

I assume you have kept exposure to a minimum due to fear of her somehow stopping the judge from signing the decree. I think she has a snowballs chance in hell at this point. But better safe than sorry. If between now and then you get real proof that she has been bad mouthing you especially in professional circles or to your close friends I would expose her on FB the day the clerk files the divorce judgement. 

Questions: Any follow up on the OM's wife? Also, is your ex still asking for the pics or was that a one off?


----------



## donesies

GusPolinski said:


> Are you still — assuming, of course, that you ever were — FB friends with any of their boyfriends/husbands?


I was never friends with the husbands


----------



## lucy999

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> As far as her FB friends de-friending you. Rather silly actually. Junior high school. But that is what some people do. You always lose 'friends' in a divorce. Consider it a blessing because rest assured, she is stalking you quietly on Facebook. Fewer 'mutual' friends now to do so.


QFT. F'n Facebook.


----------



## Blacksmith01

donesies said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Yes, that’s probably true. I wasn’t always there and wasn’t as attentive as I should have been.
> 
> We have no children, but we both want them. We tried for them, but she couldn’t have them, despite thousands of dollars spend on IVF. We then sort of gave up. That was a couple years ago.
> 
> We are both young - early 30’s


Weather you were there or not is not your problem. She didn't have a problem receiving all the benefits of all your hard work. If that was really the problem and she was really in the marriage then she would have talked to you about it instead of finding another guy. She did what she did because she wanted to. No other reason. Remember that when she tries to place the blame at your feet. All of this is because she wanted to.


----------



## blahfridge

donesies said:


> Our inability to have children was one of the most devastating things either of us have ever experienced. It took the wind out of our sails.


Donesies, I'm going to jump in on this one because I sense that this may be mitigating factor in your mind for what she did to you and your marriage. Yes, not being able to have children has to be devastating for a young couple. I am three for three - I have three children, but also lost three pregnancies. That in itself was devastating, but I was lucky enough to still be able to get pregnant again. 


It was during my last pregnancy that my H began cheating on me, if he can be believed. I know the pregnancy losses took an emotional toll on both of us and was incredibly stressful to our marriage. But I've never once attributed his decision as a reaction to our marital trauma and neither should you. She could have done any number of things to help her process that devastation other than cheat. If I am remembering correctly, you posted earlier that your WS was opposed to adoption. Why was she? It's a blessing to be able to afford to adopt, some couples wait for years but you two could have easily arranged and paid for a legal overseas adoption. She could have opened your home to foster children, volunteered with children, or just been grateful that she had you and enjoyed the freedom that not having children would have presented. 


Yes, it's a tragedy for a woman who desperately wants a child to know that she cannot conceive. But life is full of hard disappointments for everyone. She sounds spoiled and unable to appreciate the good things in her life.


----------



## re16

donesies said:


> It's a gut feeling based on a few things.
> 
> She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good.
> 
> Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.


Are there any mutual friends close enough for you to talk to that would know the others that de-friended you? It might be good to share your side of things with some of them and you'll probably hear the nature of the wild story she is making up about you. That is something that I would think should be headed off before it comes overly rapant among your own friend group.

Have you told any friends about what she did?


----------



## oldtruck

donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't sent them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


Do not send the letters. Lecturing a WW never works. They are to fogged up.


----------



## Tobyboy

Read up on the 5 stages of grief. It appears you’re at the bargaining stage. You’re going to be fine.


----------



## Taxman

As you are a physician, and know how to concentrate and study, concentrate on this; you are going through a long corridor, at the end is a major gift for your life. The corridor is long and seemingly unending. But at the end, it is not dark, it is filled with light. 

Donesies, you are in the middle of the corridor. It is hard slogging. You have doubts, because your own moral character claws at you. You, in the back of your head, desire to see the best in people, desire to see people as having similar morals and ethics as you. Then, you realize that your morals and ethics are your compass in life. Then you realize that there are many many people lacking in morals and ethics. It is here that you reach the end of the corridor. You realize that your ex wife did not share in the same vision as you. You realize that she is deeply flawed, and that you did not realize that those flaws separated her from you on a moral continuum. It made it easier to compromise her morals. You could not compromise your own, and had difficulty understanding how someone could do that, least of all, someone you vowed to love honor and cherish. 

The corridor is coming to an end. At that end, you will understand the differential that exists between you and your ex spouse. Simply she could not come up with the fortitude to be someone's wife, and she now pays for her shortcomings.


----------



## Hoosier

I was married for 30 years, we were together for 35. She had a sister and 5 brothers. When they heard what was going on, at least that we were seperated, they all (except the sister) rallied to her side. I have never heard ONE word from any of them. Doesnt make sense does it? Get ready for friends to leave, friends to join, its the way of the beast. Dont spend a lot of time wondering why some leave and some dont, just welcome those that choose to be part of your life. This is another of the many things that happen/change that we never think of until it happens.

Hang in there Doc!


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> It's a gut feeling based on a few things.
> 
> She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good.
> 
> Yes good. She's moving on and leaving you alone. Be glad you don't have one of those nasty badgers that love to call their BHs every day, cutting them down, praising the OM and and twisting the knife. I would say she is doing you a kindness by not speaking to you. It will help you detach faster.
> 
> Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.
> 
> To hell with them, Why would you want friends like that anyway?


Wives are replaceable. Friends are replaceable. We are all replaceable. Once you accept that convenient truth of life, you will move on quicker. It is a nihilistic way of looking at the world, but it's ultimately true.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


It stinks. The one you pledged your life to has betrayed you. I understand that is horribly painful, but this pain will not last forever. She has a mind and will of her own and has chosen to betray you and leave you for someone else. Let her go. Do not chase after her. It will only lead to further despair.



donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't sent them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


What she is doing is called rewriting history. You cannot change her mind. There really is nothing you can do. Defending yourself is falling into her trap, because she will twist and turn everything you say and now she'll have it in writing to spin as she chooses. It is answering a fool according to her folly and nothing good comes out of that.

Keeping a journal is a great idea, as suggested by someone else. Work through things, but don't try to change her mind. She isn't thinking right and there's nothing you can do to change that.

You are going to be okay if you continue no contact. If you contact her, it's only going to end up making you feel worse - much worse - is you can imagine that. Please don't do it. Focus your attention elsewhere and do some reading on breakups and divorce to better understand your feelings and how to work through this. She is no longer a healthy option for you. Let her go.

Edit to add:

@donesies Please tell us what kind of dirt you think you stbx has on you. It might help clarify the situation for us.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. When you dumped her, that hurt her pride. Her response to being served was "Why? Why? Why?" through tears. She thought her control over you would let her back in when she explained away the affair as not real.

2. When she saw that you had found her journals, her rage was that she had been caught. This left her no way to squirm out of what she had done and made her the bad one. How dare you!

3. A response from you as to how much you are hurting would be the sweet revenge she needs so badly. It would solidify her judgement of you as weak.

4. This would not bring her back to you but give her back the control she so desperately needs. When she was unable to conceive, I believe this was the point that caused the personality change. I don't believe it will ever change back. She is not someone in love with you. I doubt that she is capable of love as you understand it now.

5. She would laugh at your communication as a sign of remorse from you and feel justified in her judgement that she needed someone different to fill her "needs". 

6. Journal here or in private. You have held your cards pretty close to the vest so far, and that is understandable. I just wouldn't give her the satisfaction of seeing you feeling sad. Let her steam about you and how you are stronger than she believed you could be.


----------



## donesies

Taxman said:


> Donesies
> Who would she be slagging you to? Her friends? Low people who got her to this position. They should not even remotely have any influence over how you live your life. In short: You are too good for them. Let them rot in hell along with your ex. If you were in your wife's shoes around these good for nothings, would you have compromised your morals and ethics for a little taste of strange? Of course not. These are lowlifes. These are people you will encounter later in your career, when their lives take the turn for the worse, and they come to you to cure the illnesses they accrued through bad behavior. You are well rid of your wife and her friends. DO NOT LOOK BACK.


FYI: some community leaders and business people are in this club that she's in


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> FYI: some community leaders and business people are in this club that she's in


Ask your lawyer if he will send a letter of warning to her that he will file a defamation suit against her if she slanders you in public.

To hell with love. This is war. This is your reputation and honor at stake.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

bandit.45 said:


> Ask your lawyer if he will send a letter of warning to her that he will file a defamation suit against her if she slanders you in public.
> 
> To hell with love. This is war. This is your reputation and honor at stake.


Ah yes... my post #669 if memory serves. I'm so prescient.


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> It stinks. The one you pledged your life to has betrayed you. I understand that is horribly painful, but this pain will not last forever. She has a mind and will of her own and has chosen to betray you and leave you for someone else. Let her go. Do not chase after her. It will only lead to further despair.
> 
> 
> What she is doing is called rewriting history. You cannot change her mind. There really is nothing you can do. Defending yourself is falling into her trap, because she will twist and turn everything you say and now she'll have it in writing to spin as she chooses. It is answering a fool according to her folly and nothing good comes out of that.
> 
> Keeping a journal is a great idea, as suggested by someone else. Work through things, but don't try to change her mind. She isn't thinking right and there's nothing you can do to change that.
> 
> You are going to be okay if you continue no contact. If you contact her, it's only going to end up making you feel worse - much worse - is you can imagine that. Please don't do it. Focus your attention elsewhere and do some reading on breakups and divorce to better understand your feelings and how to work through this. She is no longer a healthy option for you. Let her go.
> 
> Edit to add:
> 
> @donesies Please tell us what kind of dirt you think you stbx has on you. It might help clarify the situation for us.


Absolutely nothing - I just think she'll re-write history.


----------



## donesies

So I'm curious what you guys think: 

If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


She started moving on a while ago. She just did not tell you. 

But to answer your question who knows? Clearly it is not healthy for you to wait. I am guessing though she has zero reason to contact you unless she wants something. So don't hold your breath. 

What is the probability you are going to run into her at events or in public?


----------



## Blacksmith01

re16 said:


> Are there any mutual friends close enough for you to talk to that would know the others that de-friended you? It might be good to share your side of things with some of them and you'll probably hear the nature of the wild story she is making up about you. That is something that I would think should be headed off before it comes overly rapant among your own friend group.
> 
> Have you told any friends about what she did?


In the end does it really matter what she is saying? If these people didn't know you well enough to realize that what she is saying is BS; then to hell with them. They are not your friends. Go make some new ones and get rid of her while you are at it. What she says and thinks is not your concern. Let her spin her wheels as you walk away. In a few years you will be happy again while she will still be in the same spot still talking trash.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


Judging by how she has acted so far she will move on. This woman is gone brother.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies, here is a repost of my post #587. Maybe you didn't see it before? 
Donesies:

I mentioned before about the lawyer drafting a note to the "Club". Is this a real club with donors, dues, a board, & such? If so, your silence is a bargaining chip. Here is a cutting from a post where the betrayed husband called the the head of a charitable organization where his WW and the OM met and carried on their affair. Whether you would actually do this or not is academic but the threat of it could be used as a counter balance to your WW trying to dig up dirt on you. This is a clinic on this type of thing. If her "Club" is as important to her as you say it is the mere threat of this could be devastating to her. A well placed letter from your lawyer to the club or her or any target of opportunity If she continues to try to harm your reputation could be something in your bag of tricks. I hope that you are getting out of your fog and starting to get angry. She is not your friend but your worst enemy.....

"I called the organization and spoke to the Director. I introduced myself to Mrs. La-di-dah as Mrs. W's husband and got all of the pleasantries and how very much they miss her and blah blah blah. I asked if she knew why my wife stopped volunteering. I got a "Yes" and then a very sanitized version of an affair - she said that my wife said she developed somewhat of an inappropriate relationship with POS and that she wanted to dedicate herself to her marriage and how admirable that is. So I put a stop to the bull**** and told her that while POS was still married and ostensibly working through marriage counseling with his wife, he targeted my wife and the two had a PA for 3 months, which as she could imagine has utterly devastated our family. I got silence. I then took a leap and said that I was shocked to find out that despite this, POS was still volunteering at her organization. I then got a whole bunch of, “I don’t understand,” “He’s a very valued member,” “donates time and money,” and so on. Now, you guys don’t know me so well, but I can be a real ******* at times. I have been yelling and shouting at my wife, which isn’t right, but that’s all emotion and hurt combined with anger. When I get really, really angry, I go cold. And this lady got me furious. So I said in an extremely calm voice, that I wonder how her volunteering and donations will fare when I call every single one of my wife’s co-volunteer’s husbands, as well as the Board members, and the Dinner Chairs, and the journal editors, etc., and let them know about POS and that scum like him will likely target their wives next, and moreover that you are perfectly fine with someone like that representing your organization despite the destruction to families, as long as you get a nice check out of it? How much longer do you think you’ll still have your job? She said “You wouldn’t.” Oh – I absolutely would. I don’t care how embarrassing it is for me, I wouldn’t hesitate one iota. “But the kids…” So I said I don’t give a flying f__k about the kids. I care about my family. She then went with “There’s no need…” and I cut her off and I said there’s every need in the world and that I expect her to handle this quickly and appropriately. She finally said I made my point and that she’ll take care of it. I said that she should make sure she does so before the end of the week. Otherwise I start making phone calls. Wished her a good day and hung up."


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


I just get the feeling that she is not going to reach out, just a different cat from what I gather. I think a lot of it will be due to embarrassment and eventual guilt that she won't want to face you. By the time she may, you will have found your better partner and you will have learned what to look out for and in what areas you actually would like to be a better partner to them. Me .. I'm not so lucky. My WW wants to be friends and thinks nothing she did is wrong and just following her heart and that she basically lived a lie most of her life. This all happened real quick for you all the quicker you will move on. I'm suffering a long, slow, painful burn where I had to live through affair over the past year and we still have at least 4 more months of living together until divorce is final.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't sent them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


It would hurt the situation by making you look like a whipped dog with its tail between its legs and would accomplish nothing. She cheated because, for one or many reasons, she lost romantic interest in you. To say women who have lost romantic interest are indifferent about the feelings their former squeeze is an outrageous understatement. What is happening to you is happening to millions of men. I assure you that she'll be a distant bad memory when you meet another chick that tickles your fancy; and being a doctor is like being a rock star, albeit on a smaller scale but still with a massive inventory of available ladies.

In respect to accusations of being a jealous husband, why give a rats azz. If not wanting somebody else f-ing my wife indicts me as a jealous bastard, I'll plead guilty.


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


She won't swallow her pride and reach out to you most likely. Whether you go no contact doesn't factor into her thinking at all. Right now your in the way and she wants you gone so be gone. It's part of the no win game, if you try and contact you'll most likely drive her away, if you don't try and contact she tells herself this was meant to be and you must have wanted this too. They convince themselves just about anything to justify behavior. 

Write the letters but NEVER send them. I got a drawer full of them. I guarantee you in a few months when you reread what you wrote you'll be glad you didn't send them and wonder to yourself what was I thinking.....


----------



## blahfridge

I would definitely have your lawyer send the no-slander letter. Your reputation could be a stake - who knows what she is saying about you. 

I will be an outlier here and say that if getting some anger off your chest will help you move on, then send her an email and blast away. Just don't expect an answer or, if there is one, be prepared for her to spew venom at your for being an awful husband. Whether the whole enterprise makes you feel better or worse, is really up to you. The TAM mantra is to go completely dark, but you need to do what you think will help you the most. No matter how you slice it, this is going to hurt for a long time. Until it doesn't.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


Better question —

Why do you even ****ing care?


----------



## 3putt

blahfridge said:


> I would definitely have your lawyer send the no-slander letter. Your reputation could be a stake - who knows what she is saying about you.
> 
> I will be an outlier here and say that if getting some anger off your chest will help you move on,* then send her an email and blast away. * Just don't expect an answer or, if there is one, be prepared for her to spew venom at your for being an awful husband. Whether the whole enterprise makes you feel better or worse, is really up to you. The TAM mantra is to go completely dark, but you need to do what you think will help you the most. No matter how you slice it, this is going to hurt for a long time. Until it doesn't.


Gotta disagree with this part. With the way she is acting don't dare put anything in writing. She will try and use it against him. 

I do like the idea of having his attorney sending a threat of a lawsuit if she chooses to attempt to defame him in order to justify or rationalize her actions. I would do this ASAP.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> She started moving on a while ago. She just did not tell you.
> 
> But to answer your question who knows? Clearly it is not healthy for you to wait. I am guessing though she has zero reason to contact you unless she wants something. So don't hold your breath.
> 
> *What is the probability you are going to run into her at events or in public?*


Extremely high. Actually a certainty


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies, here is a repost of my post #587. Maybe you didn't see it before?
> Donesies:
> 
> I mentioned before about the lawyer drafting a note to the "Club". Is this a real club with donors, dues, a board, & such? If so, your silence is a bargaining chip. Here is a cutting from a post where the betrayed husband called the the head of a charitable organization where his WW and the OM met and carried on their affair. Whether you would actually do this or not is academic but the threat of it could be used as a counter balance to your WW trying to dig up dirt on you. This is a clinic on this type of thing. If her "Club" is as important to her as you say it is the mere threat of this could be devastating to her. A well placed letter from your lawyer to the club or her or any target of opportunity If she continues to try to harm your reputation could be something in your bag of tricks. I hope that you are getting out of your fog and starting to get angry. She is not your friend but your worst enemy.....
> 
> "I called the organization and spoke to the Director. I introduced myself to Mrs. La-di-dah as Mrs. W's husband and got all of the pleasantries and how very much they miss her and blah blah blah. I asked if she knew why my wife stopped volunteering. I got a "Yes" and then a very sanitized version of an affair - she said that my wife said she developed somewhat of an inappropriate relationship with POS and that she wanted to dedicate herself to her marriage and how admirable that is. So I put a stop to the bull**** and told her that while POS was still married and ostensibly working through marriage counseling with his wife, he targeted my wife and the two had a PA for 3 months, which as she could imagine has utterly devastated our family. I got silence. I then took a leap and said that I was shocked to find out that despite this, POS was still volunteering at her organization. I then got a whole bunch of, “I don’t understand,” “He’s a very valued member,” “donates time and money,” and so on. Now, you guys don’t know me so well, but I can be a real ******* at times. I have been yelling and shouting at my wife, which isn’t right, but that’s all emotion and hurt combined with anger. When I get really, really angry, I go cold. And this lady got me furious. So I said in an extremely calm voice, that I wonder how her volunteering and donations will fare when I call every single one of my wife’s co-volunteer’s husbands, as well as the Board members, and the Dinner Chairs, and the journal editors, etc., and let them know about POS and that scum like him will likely target their wives next, and moreover that you are perfectly fine with someone like that representing your organization despite the destruction to families, as long as you get a nice check out of it? How much longer do you think you’ll still have your job? She said “You wouldn’t.” Oh – I absolutely would. I don’t care how embarrassing it is for me, I wouldn’t hesitate one iota. “But the kids…” So I said I don’t give a flying f__k about the kids. I care about my family. She then went with “There’s no need…” and I cut her off and I said there’s every need in the world and that I expect her to handle this quickly and appropriately. She finally said I made my point and that she’ll take care of it. I said that she should make sure she does so before the end of the week. Otherwise I start making phone calls. Wished her a good day and hung up."


Do you think a lawyer would really write up a letter like this?


----------



## Taxman

I recognize this post from SI, and it did have the intended effect. I believe that there was a shakeup in the organization. Now, Donesies, if you do anything, cover yourself legally. Please speak to a lawyer before you say anything. In any event, say absolutely nothing until the divorce is final, signed, sealed and delivered. Not a peep shall you make. If there is to be vengeance of any kind, which I do NOT recommend, you have to first discuss it with your attorney. You are a high income earner, and really attack-able. You need to be covered up the bloody wazoo.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Extremely high. Actually a certainty


When that happens you will certainly have some questions either answered or made worse. 

Will you be ready if she : 

a) Continues with the ice treatment acting like you are invisible and your marriage never occurred?

b) Acknowledges your presence but quickly glides away so as not not have to engage you? 

c) Greets you and engages in small talk then breaks away as your eyes turn red with anger?

d) Shows up with the OM and acts like everything is normal? 

d) Acts like a human being and says we need to talk but not now. Can we meet up for coffee? 

Given that you have no idea what is going on in her mind it might be a good idea to make sure you don't bump into her for the next few months if you can help it. This wound is still pretty raw. Her indifference in public could set you back emotionally to day 1. 

I'm not saying run from her but if she wants to talk to you she knows how to reach you. Electronically for starts. She knows she did you wrong and she knows she is going to run into you in public. She can't hide forever. As she is the one who has face to lose she will reach to you to gauge your anger vindictiveness thermometer. Until then keep her in the dark.


----------



## just got it 55

Taxman said:


> I recognize this post from SI, and it did have the intended effect. I believe that there was a shakeup in the organization. Now, Donesies, if you do anything, cover yourself legally. Please speak to a lawyer before you say anything. In any event, say absolutely nothing until the divorce is final, signed, sealed and delivered. Not a peep shall you make. If there is to be vengeance of any kind, which I do NOT recommend, you have to first discuss it with your attorney. You are a high income earner, and really attack-able. You need to be covered up the bloody wazoo.


Yeah I think it was Walloped

55


----------



## donesies

GusPolinski said:


> Better question —
> 
> Why do you even ****ing care?


Fair enough. I shouldn't. Ego mostly...I guess. Hard for me to imagine that she wants out bad enough to tear apart our families, her job, and a life of status and early retirement.

I'm sure there are people telling her: "it's his loss - you are so beautiful and talented..." I just want to say "NO B***! It's your ***ing loss and it's **** devastating to you!"


----------



## 3putt

donesies said:


> Fair enough. I shouldn't. Ego mostly...I guess. Hard for me to imagine that she wants out bad enough to tear apart our families, her job, and a life of status and early retirement.
> 
> I'm sure there are people telling her: "it's his loss - you are so beautiful and talented..." I just want to say "NO B***! It's your ***ing loss and it's **** devastating to you!"


You may never hear it from her, but you can bet your last dollar that one day she *will *be saying this to herself.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Fair enough. I shouldn't. Ego mostly...I guess. Hard for me to imagine that she wants out bad enough to tear apart our families, her job, and a life of status and early retirement.
> 
> I'm sure there are people telling her: "it's his loss - you are so beautiful and talented..." I just want to say "NO B***! It's your ***ing loss and it's **** devastating to you!"


The truth of what happened is going to come out. It always does. Give it time on YOUR time table. First you have to verify with facts she is indeed lying to everyone and other than your imagination so far there does not seem to be any real proof of that. Stay quiet, word will get back to you. 

Oh, and be careful what you say to 'mutual' friends of what your thoughts and feelings are. As she is one one with reputation and face to lose she is probably making discreet inquiries on your state of mind.


----------



## eric1

donesies said:


> Fair enough. I shouldn't. Ego mostly...I guess. Hard for me to imagine that she wants out bad enough to tear apart our families, her job, and a life of status and early retirement.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are people telling her: "it's his loss - you are so beautiful and talented..." I just want to say "NO B***! It's your ***ing loss and it's **** devastating to you!"




Then why do her a favor and let her know she’s messing up. Stay silent.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> I’ve been up all night thinking about her and us and this whole situation.
> 
> It’s so hard to believe that my marriage is ending...I just can’t believe she would want someone or something else. I care so deeply for her and I’m so hurt.
> 
> I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing by ending this. I’m 75% sure this is the right thing but I do love her so much and I want her to be my wife.
> 
> Every little thing sets me off. I’m afraid to lose her and I’m afraid this horrible emotional pain will last forever.


I am sure you still do love her. This isn’t easy by no means. The problem is she no longer loves you and hasn’t for more then a year now. 

You might want the marriage to work out but your wife doesn’t.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> I have a question for you guys:
> 
> I have not communicated with her AT ALL, but I really want to. I have drafted letters telling her all the great things I did for her and all the crap she has put me through. I haven't sent them, but I'm wondering how it could hurt the situation?
> 
> One thing that's bothering me is that I know she's building me up to be some kind of abusive and jealous husband when I was so incredibly and OVERLY supportive of her personal freedoms in every way that I possibly could. I want to shut that **** down with a healthy dose of reality which is in these letters.


Don’t send her any letters. 

Tell her if she lies about what has happened and to smear your character that you will set the story right by posting her journal on Facebook.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


She has already moved on and is in love with a POSOM.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Extremely high. Actually a certainty


Then just make sure you have a good female friend with you at these events. Make sure she knows what has happened and you need the moral support. Get your head right as well for these events. You only have to put the show on for a few hours or less. Don’t notice her don’t look at her. If she speaks to you return a greeting and excuse your self and walk away and talk with someone else. 

Never let her see you are hurting.

Eventually it won’t be a show, she won’t mean anything to you one day.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Do you think a lawyer would really write up a letter like this?


.

1. Find proof that she is defaming you.

2. Ask your lawyer what can be done.

3. You are a professional. You should really be talking to the lawyer as this
could effect your professional reputation.

4. Does the lawyer know of the documents?

5. What does the lawyer say should be done with them?

6. If you are going to be in public where you expect her to be, you may 
want a friend to accompany you. Maybe someone 10 years younger 
than your wife. 0 Okay maybe thats a stretch, but wouldn't that be 
fun? >

7. Any word from the OBS? You need to rattle her cage a little more.


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## Elizabeth001

donesies said:


> Fair enough. I shouldn't. Ego mostly...I guess. Hard for me to imagine that she wants out bad enough to tear apart our families, her job, and a life of status and early retirement.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure there are people telling her: "it's his loss - you are so beautiful and talented..." I just want to say "NO B***! It's your ***ing loss and it's **** devastating to you!"




Sweetie...almost ALL of us felt that way. You have to stop dwelling on “why”. Even if you knew or understood WHY, it wouldn’t change a damned thing. The “why” isn’t important any longer. Change your train of thought. Easier said than done but you can if you try. 

Second paragraph... go back to who gives a shat. Same advice...don’t dwell on something that is out of your control. Focus on things you CAN change. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Suspicious1

I wrote a letter to my XW, a few weeks after finding out about her betrayal. I wrote how much I missed and love my home, the kids and her! It was 5 page letter. She just smirk while pretending to read it. 
We were at some resturant, after we finished eating we walk several NYC blocks, I asked her thoughts about the letters she said that she'll continue reading it at home. I told her what I meant in a particular page, and asked her for the letter as she had a shoulder type bag when she looked inside she realized the letter was left at the restaurant, it hit me what I had wrote wasn't for her, it was for me! We went back, but the bust boy must had taken it and tossed it, I was a little embarrassed by someone reading my deepest thoughts on my situation. I didnt make a fuss, about the lost letter especially seeing my ex couldn't had care less about my thoughts then, as she was covered by the fog!

Every time I hear guys writing these types of letters which I call now to as "female dog-derriere letter", yet not in those exact words.

Don't write a letter, it's to little use, my ex felt I would allow her to do her garbage ans when she was ready I would be waiting.

She was wrong.

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## lucy999

@Suspicious1 that was a really painful read. I'm sorry that happened to you.


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## Blacksmith01

Stop dwelling on her and what happens to her. That is nothing but your ego. The OM is not better than you. You know this. Stop asking why. She is a grown woman and able to make up her own mind. This is what she wants so give it to her as one last gift. Walk away and work on you. Trust me she will get her's in the end. They always do.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies
I know your mind is still going a mile a minute. One wishes you had a switch to turn off your emotions during this despicable roller coaster ride. The unfortunate thing is that we are just not wired to switch off like that, at least most of us. Man, you have been traumatized, and your better nature was used against you. Maybe get yourself a mantra, like, I will get thru this, or Just one more day. One day and soon, clarity will hit, and you can take that one step back. You will see what most of us, essentially non-connected strangers, do see. Although we have not heard her side of the story, yours is convincing enough, and remember, most everyone here has heard it all, to give us the impression that you are a good man who had something horrible perpetrated on him, totally blindsided. All you need do is keep going. We all can guarantee that every day you will be getting incrementally better. Be well my friend.


----------



## ButtPunch

Blacksmith01 said:


> Stop dwelling on her and what happens to her. That is nothing but your ego. The OM is not better than you. You know this. Stop asking why. She is a grown woman and able to make up her own mind. This is what she wants so give it to her as one last gift. Walk away and work on you. Trust me she will get her's in the end. They always do.


I know it's hard but this is where you need to get to Donesies.

Blacksmith has been there and so have I.

Focus on you not her.


----------



## Taxman

just got it 55 said:


> Yeah I think it was Walloped
> 
> 55


Short t/j-That was written by Walloped, who I believe is a member here. I read on SI that Mrs Walloped had a bad reaction to reading his original thread, we wish her well and a speedy recovery. End t/j


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## donesies

Blacksmith01 said:


> Stop dwelling on her and what happens to her. That is nothing but your ego. The OM is not better than you. You know this. Stop asking why. She is a grown woman and able to make up her own mind. This is what she wants so give it to her as one last gift. Walk away and work on you. Trust me she will get her's in the end. They always do.


I honestly WANT to work on me, but I am running out of ideas. I am already active and fun and successful and intelligent. I can’t advance in my career any further. Pushing myself any further physically is going to require more training time which is just going to make my ability to take up other hobbies/interests harder.


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> I honestly WANT to work on me, but I am running out of ideas. I am already active and fun and successful and intelligent. I can’t advance in my career any further. Pushing myself any further physically is going to require more training time which is just going to make my ability to take up other hobbies/interests harder.


You just need some time to put this all behind you. You can't work on yourself while you are dwelling on her. What I did was just some reading on self improvement and spent my time reconnecting with family and friends that I hadn't been in touch with.


----------



## dubsey

at the end of the day, you'll never truly know why she did what she did, but with regard to packing up and walking away, that's easy.

"throwing good money after bad"

it's a lot easier to follow up a bad choice with another bad choice, than admit the first choice was bad. You see it all the time - kids doubling down on lie after lie, sports management continuing to pay a bad investment, rather than cut bait and say "yep, that was a mistake, get him off the roster."

that's all your STBX is doing - throwing good money after bad - in her case, literally, by signing your original offer.

With regard to improving yourself - there's always something. Learn how to work on cars, take cooking classes, find an adult co-ed soccer league, almost all of them will have a recreational "I've never played soccer before" league, whatever. 

There's always something, it doesn't need to be physical.


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?



If she reaches out to you it will because she wants the status/security/lifestyle of being married to you rather than because she truly loves you. She's focused on the OM and not you. Try to realize that it's a gift to you that she is removing any doubt you might have about her intentions and true feelings.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I honestly WANT to work on me, but I am running out of ideas. I am already active and fun and successful and intelligent. I can’t advance in my career any further. Pushing myself any further physically is going to require more training time which is just going to make my ability to take up other hobbies/interests harder.


Time for a vacation. A fun one. A really fun one. If you were my best friend I would drag you asap to a bikini paradise. 

Seriously, tell your supervisor you are going through a divorce and need some time off soon to clear your head. Then get out of dodge.


----------



## TeddieG

Bananapeel said:


> If she reaches out to you it will because she wants the status/security/lifestyle of being married to you rather than because she truly loves you. She's focused on the OM and not you. _Try to realize that it's a gift to you that she is removing any doubt you might have about her intentions and true feelings_.


Yes, this. My ex waffled and was confused and had me confused half the time, for a long time. He gave the impression at first that the affair was a short thing, a mistake. He strung me along, and then I found out that there was far more to it. Affairs are only affairs for so long, and then they become relationships. My h was in affair fog for a long long time. 

I so wish he had just made a clean break and I so wish I had had the strength to do what you've done since DDay. 

And yes, get out of Dodge. I have a favorite hotel in a spa city. It's the one where we got married. So I made pilgrimages there on and off while recovering, scheduling massages and pedicures and taking back the space for me, leaving behind some old memories. It was my place before we got married there, and I took it back.


----------



## donesies

lucy999 said:


> @Suspicious1 that was a really painful read. I'm sorry that happened to you.


I agree. I’m sorry as well
@Suspicious1: Just curious if she ultimately came back to the table? Seems like you were foreshadowing that...


----------



## Suspicious1

lucy999 said:


> @Suspicious1 that was a really painful read. I'm sorry that happened to you.


Thank you, I really appreciate it. Even thou it happend almost 20 years ago, I still feel the sting some what. She really did a number on me.

She was/is a horrible person the lack of respect for me and the kids is unforgivable. It's the reason I've spoken to her less than 5 times in the last 15 or so years.

Done. 

Don't talk to speak to her, and what ever you do do not write her any letters, she'll use them for her own ego boost and have a laugh with the friends or the OM.

Stay strong, go away where you could clear your mind and gather your thoughts.

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## skerzoid

Donesies:

It seems that you keep reaching out for hope that she will come back to you. This totally understandable. But could this be? :

1. From your description of your marriage, she wanted to have your child. She was unable to. This changed the dynamic in her mind. She had failed you. 

2. She then began (subconsciously) to be open to a relationship with someone she hadn't failed. This man already had children and wouldn't need her to fill that role. She could be with someone that desired her and had no expectations (in her mind).

3. She then began to resent you (subconsciously) and she became totally enamored with this new love. This became her new reason for living. 

4. His main attraction was that he wasn't you. He wasn't this superman that she could never live up to.

5. Even if you totally debased yourself, begged her, promised to change, it will not change this new her. She may eventually come to the realization that this relationship will never work, or he may have to make a choice between her and his children, but she will move on.

6. In that case, she will look for a new love, but not you. She resents you now and that will probably never change.

7. In any event this may be years down the road. Do you want to wait for that possibility?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> It seems that you keep reaching out for hope that she will come back to you. This totally understandable. But could this be:
> 
> 1. From your description of your marriage, she wanted to have your child. She was unable to. This changed the dynamic in her mind. She had failed you.
> 
> 2. She then began (subconsciously) to be open to a relationship with someone she hadn't failed. This man already had children and wouldn't need her to fill that role. She could be with someone that desired her and had no expectations (in her mind).
> 
> 3. She then began to resent you (subconsciously) and she became totally enamored with this new love. This became her new reason for living.
> 
> 4. His main attraction was that he wasn't you. He wasn't this superman that she could never live up to.
> 
> 5. Even if you totally debased yourself, begged her, promised to change, it will not change this new her. She may eventually come to the realization that this relationship will never work, or he may have to make a choice between her and his children, but she will move on.
> 
> 6. *In that case, she will look for a new love, but not you. She resents you now and that will probably never change.*
> 
> 7. In any event this may be years down the road. Do you want to wait for that possibility?



That is the toughest one for me to handle but if I had to guess I think that will be the case with me too, especially since my STBXW if stubborn as they come and hates to admit when wrong at any cost. Things are on a hiatus between her and OM now as he's trying to convince his wife again, that he only loves her but that was the case 3 months ago when OMW found out as well, so only may be a matter of time until things cool down and round 3. Before I got off on a tangent, I think what I bolded is likely the case for a lot of us. They want to justify to themselves that it was us and not them, so even when the affair falls flat on it's head they will try with every ounce of them to still prove it was not the affair, it wasn't them, it was us and they will look for the next soulmate.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> Blacksmith01 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop dwelling on her and what happens to her. That is nothing but your ego. The OM is not better than you. You know this. Stop asking why. She is a grown woman and able to make up her own mind. This is what she wants so give it to her as one last gift. Walk away and work on you. Trust me she will get her's in the end. They always do.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly WANT to work on me, but I am running out of ideas. I am already active and fun and successful and intelligent. I can’t advance in my career any further. Pushing myself any further physically is going to require more training time which is just going to make my ability to take up other hobbies/interests harder.
Click to expand...

I feel you here. Sometimes I wish I was a fat lazy slob, so that I would have tons of room for low hanging fruit improvement. I'm in no means the medical field but co-founded a successful company 8 years ago, have a good 9-5, work out everyday of my life and am in football and basketball rec leagues at the University I work, playing against students almost 20 years younger. So the thought of how much do I have in the tank to improve upon that is hard but it's starting to click. Instead of trying to stay lean I am focusing on bulking now and trying to add a lot more muscle just for something new and fun. I'm starting to cook more and I'm starting to do things that were in my wife's wheelhouse. Planning, coming up with new ideas for the kids, etc. It doesn't make up for all the pain but it helps during this divorce process. Super hard when you have to live with someone you love but could care less about how you feel and I have at least 4 more months of that.


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## Suspicious1

donesies said:


> I agree. I’m sorry as well
> @Suspicious1: Just curious if she ultimately came back to the table? Seems like you were foreshadowing that...


Thanks

To tell the truth she did, but I was too disgusted by her actions, her parents actions, her behavior towards the kids a girl 6 and a boy 8 that had their whole world turn upside down. None stop lies on top of lies, nothing made sense or what came out her mouth. 

I don't recall how long after she hound me down, at work, at my aunts home, my friend it was just as bad as the break up. 
The funny thing she had the OM around as far as I could tell, and some strange woman who I believe was there to serve her lesbian fantasy! I know tg bis b/c my ex called to do her a favor to call some woman and tell her not to bother my Ex. I hung up on her, absurd.

Didn't want her back at all, I was done.

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## alte Dame

You sound like a real catch. Here's the thing, though - I suspect that's a huge problem for her. She affaired down to her own self-image and comfort level. You don't see her the way she sees herself and she will probably never believe the image that you have (had!) of her.

I'm with the others and think you should give up this ghost. Try to find a partner who is honestly your match. It can be hard, I know, but when a spouse puts on a mask to pretend to be as dynamic/smart/interesting/interested/_______ fill in the blank, it can be a true recipe for disaster.

There are times in life when we have no good choices and have to opt for the least bad one. In my opinion, moving on from her in all ways is your least bad choice...which will turn into the best choice you ever made.


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## lucy999

@donesies I realize you are searching for answers. It's natural. And I think I may be repeating myself, but it bears worth repeating: stop going down the rabbit hole. It's tempting, I know. Chump lady calls it "unraveling the skein of ****edupness." Just trust that she sucks.

And as for seeing her at events, she should be the one slinking away. You enter that room loud and proud. Own that room. You've done nothing wrong. She, on the other hand, did something so gross. And both of you know the truth. She could've done a myriad of things to work on the marriage, but she chose the chicken**** way out. She's a coward.

At these events, fake it til you make it. We promise you, it will not always feel this way. Brighter days are definitely ahead. Don't chase after a sparkly turd. You deserve better and I'll repeat, she is not of your caliber.


----------



## Thor

Working on yourself doesn't mean increasing your athletic performance or learning some new skill. It means getting comfortable being alone with yourself. It means coming to peace with your imperfections as a spouse and not taking any responsibility for the demise of the marriage. But also it means recognizing your errors and learning from them. That will be ongoing as you have future relationships. 
It means getting some time and distance from stbxw so you have perspective, which will likely lead to you seeing her entirely differently.

So, to work on yourself be sure to take care of yourself with good food, exercise, and rest. Make sure the rest includes mental rest. As has been suggested, go on a week vacation somewhere with a good friend. Or instead of hanging out at home doing chores on Saturday, go visit some interesting local attraction. Take a friend to make it even better.

You're in a process here. Just ride the wave with the knowledge it is going to be a ride but it will have a good ending.


----------



## MyRevelation

Taxman said:


> Short t/j-That was written by Walloped, who I believe is a member here. I read on SI that Mrs Walloped had a bad reaction to reading his original thread, we wish her well and a speedy recovery. End t/j


Oh, she's back and fishing for more ego kibbles and atta-girls ... still all about I, I, I, although she does polish it up with nice words.

... and that really is the comparable thing with donesies WW. Strong actions by the BH are great, but its all wasted effort if you're trying to R with a selfish, unremorseful wayward. donesies is just getting to the acceptance phase of seeing his WW for what she truly is, and that's really tough for a BH ... to accept that you were completely wrong about the person you thought you knew best.


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


Not being insensitive, but why do you care?

Nevermind, was asked already.


----------



## Chaparral

Here’s the thing. Even if she came back crying, on her knees begging, promising you the world and let’s say you did take her back. What you would find is that nothing is the same. She’s not,your not, the marriage is not. Your marriage was over the moment she first kissed him. Your opinion of her cannot ever be the same. Not even close. I lasted two years after she came back and my story isn’t a hundredth as bad as yours. The reason? Innocence. The special thing you had can not happen again. She can never be trusted again. You don’t have a knife in your back, you have the whole cutlery set sticking out.

If you have any psychiatrist friends, ask them why parents that lose a child divorce so often. It seems to be extremely common. Finding out she can’t have kids has transformed your wife. She is punishing you and herself. I will bet she also blames you for something to do with her condition. One thing that’s common here is blaming the husband for something he has no knowledge of or control over. Even blaming him, in essence, for not being able to read her mind. Blaming him for not knowing about the affair because he doesn’t really know her!

You will get over this. It just takes time and meeting new women. Whether you date or not, get yourself out in public and make sure everyone knows you are now single. If people ask, tell them your soon to be ex wife has personal issues you can’t help her with and she decided to split.


----------



## honcho

Chaparral said:


> Here’s the thing. Even if she came back crying, on her knees begging, promising you the world and let’s say you did take her back. What you would find is that nothing is the same. She’s not,your not, the marriage is not. Your marriage was over the moment she first kissed him. Your opinion of her cannot ever be the same. Not even close. I lasted two years after she came back and my story isn’t a hundredth as bad as yours. The reason? Innocence. The special thing you had can not happen again. She can never be trusted again. You don’t have a knife in your back, you have the whole cutlery set sticking out.
> 
> If you have any psychiatrist friends, ask them why parents that lose a child divorce so often. It seems to be extremely common. Finding out she can’t have kids has transformed your wife. She is punishing you and herself. I will bet she also blames you for something to do with her condition. One thing that’s common here is blaming the husband for something he has no knowledge of or control over. Even blaming him, in essence, for not being able to read her mind. Blaming him for not knowing about the affair because he doesn’t really know her!
> 
> You will get over this. It just takes time and meeting new women. Whether you date or not, get yourself out in public and make sure everyone knows you are now single. If people ask, tell them your soon to be ex wife has personal issues you can’t help her with and she decided to split.


This is very true. My ex couldn't have kids but at some point she convinced herself I was the sole reason she never had kids. 5 years later she still tells people about how I hated kids, never wanted them etc etc. If you tell yourself a lie enough eventually you believe it, little details like facts just get in the way of the storyline. 

I also got blamed a great deal for not being born with the mind reading gene and thus not truly "knowing her". It's all self delusion on there part to justify what they are doing. 

Once you gain some emotional distance from her and start to look more objective at your marriage you'll see the cracks in her mask that she wore for you.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

honcho said:


> This is very true. My ex couldn't have kids but at some point she convinced herself I was the sole reason she never had kids. 5 years later she still tells people about how I hated kids, never wanted them etc etc. If you tell yourself a lie enough eventually you believe it, little details like facts just get in the way of the storyline.
> 
> I also got blamed a great deal for not being born with the mind reading gene and thus not truly "knowing her". It's all self delusion on there part to justify what they are doing.
> 
> Once you gain some emotional distance from her and start to look more objective at your marriage you'll see the cracks in her mask that she wore for you.


Wow, yes, the since we have been together so long I should know her and the fact that I couldn't read her mind is why we aren't compatible or belong to be together in her eyes!


----------



## Dyokemm

Donsies, 

You took great action in dealing with your WW and getting yourself out of infidelity ASAP after discovering the A......you blew her little charade up and got the a fantastic settlement.

In your posts since WW left, however, I am getting the sense from you that your swift and no-nonsense approach was intended by you to at least in part ‘wake her up’ to what she was going to lose.....and part of you has been hoping since that she would come to her senses, end the A, and approach you about R.

There is nothing wrong with this if you wanted R.....and IMO the swift and brutal initiation of D was the right path to take, because even if it didn’t work you would be well on your way to moving on from your WW.

If you were hoping she might wake up, end the A, and make an attempt to enter R with you.....then the one mistake you made was in not killing the A by exposing it to all friends and family.....and, most importantly, to this POSOM’s BW.

You have not killed Fantasyland.....

You made one half-hearted attempt to reach the OBS.....and have never followed up.

If you really did want a shot at R....this was your fatal mistake.

POSOM has been allowed to continue chasing your WW unimpeded by the fact his own M and family were exploding around him, including the possibility he would lose half of his assets and his time with his kids.

OM is living in his ideal situation.....better in fact now that your WW has left and he can have access to her any time he wants, while still having his family on the side.

You seem to have been focused for the recent past on wondering why your WW is moving on so quick and would she possibly come back....almost tortured by the fact she has so quickly cut you off.

Of course she has.....she is living in Dreamland with POSOM....no doubt convinced that he will soon be leaving his M to join her.

Dollars to donuts, however, if you had made exposing this turd to his BW a priority, he would have dropped your WW like a hot rock and run back to save his own a**.

Several posters have continued to ask recently if you have heard back from scumbag’s BW or ensured that she has been informed of the A....but you have not addressed these questions.

If you are still even remotely thinking about taking your WW back if she were to return.....then you absolutely MUST follow up on exposing the A to OBS.....

And exposing it to both families and all friends will help with the ‘badmouthing’ by your WW issue/problem you mentioned earlier as well.

At this point....either completely accept your D and put the entire situation in the past and be satisfied with the good deal you got....or if you want ANY chance to try to recover your M, then stop procrastinating and fooling around and EXPOSE the A wide and far.

Because simply hoping your WW might wake up isn’t going to work.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Dyokemm said:


> Donsies,
> 
> You took great action in dealing with your WW and getting yourself out of infidelity ASAP after discovering the A......you blew her little charade up and got the a fantastic settlement.
> 
> In your posts since WW left, however, I am getting the sense from you that your swift and no-nonsense approach was intended by you to at least in part ‘wake her up’ to what she was going to lose.....and part of you has been hoping since that she would come to her senses, end the A, and approach you about R.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with this if you wanted R.....and IMO the swift and brutal initiation of D was the right path to take, because even if it didn’t work you would be well on your way to moving on from your WW.
> 
> If you were hoping she might wake up, end the A, and make an attempt to enter R with you.....then the one mistake you made was in not killing the A by exposing it to all friends and family.....and, most importantly, to this POSOM’s BW.
> 
> You have not killed Fantasyland.....
> 
> You made one half-hearted attempt to reach the OBS.....and have never followed up.
> 
> If you really did want a shot at R....this was your fatal mistake.
> 
> POSOM has been allowed to continue chasing your WW unimpeded by the fact his own M and family were exploding around him, including the possibility he would lose half of his assets and his time with his kids.
> 
> OM is living in his ideal situation.....better in fact now that your WW has left and he can have access to her any time he wants, while still having his family on the side.
> 
> You seem to have been focused for the recent past on wondering why your WW is moving on so quick and would she possibly come back....almost tortured by the fact she has so quickly cut you off.
> 
> Of course she has.....she is living in Dreamland with POSOM....no doubt convinced that he will soon be leaving his M to join her.
> 
> Dollars to donuts, however, if you had made exposing this turd to his BW a priority, he would have dropped your WW like a hot rock and run back to save his own a**.
> 
> Several posters have continued to ask recently if you have heard back from scumbag’s BW or ensured that she has been informed of the A....but you have not addressed these questions.
> 
> If you are still even remotely thinking about taking your WW back if she were to return.....then you absolutely MUST follow up on exposing the A to OBS.....
> 
> And exposing it to both families and all friends will help with the ‘badmouthing’ by your WW issue/problem you mentioned earlier as well.
> 
> At this point....either completely accept your D and put the entire situation in the past and be satisfied with the good deal you got....or if you want ANY chance to try to recover your M, then stop procrastinating and fooling around and EXPOSE the A wide and far.
> 
> Because simply hoping your WW might wake up isn’t going to work.


Words out of my mouth. !!!!


----------



## donesies

alte Dame said:


> You sound like a real catch. Here's the thing, though - I suspect that's a huge problem for her. She affaired down to her own self-image and comfort level. You don't see her the way she sees herself and she will probably never believe the image that you have (had!) of her.
> 
> I'm with the others and think you should give up this ghost. Try to find a partner who is honestly your match. It can be hard, I know, but *when a spouse puts on a mask to pretend to be as dynamic/smart/interesting/interested/_______ fill in the blank, it can be a true recipe for disaster.*
> 
> There are times in life when we have no good choices and have to opt for the least bad one. In my opinion, moving on from her in all ways is your least bad choice...which will turn into the best choice you ever made.


This is so ridiculously spot-on. She is putting on a show for OM and the world, but I already know her, and she knows that. She isn't this person.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> This is so ridiculously spot-on. She is putting on a show for OM and the world, but I already know her, and she knows that. She isn't this person.


This is why it is always important to expose the truth to the immediate families at the very least. No matter how much she tries to cover it, the truth always rises to the surface. You will be vindicated. Just be true to yourself.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> This is so ridiculously spot-on. She is putting on a show for OM and the world, but I already know her, and she knows that. *She isn't this person.*


It does not last, the putting on airs. Eventually, the true character always rises to the surface because we are human.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeswecan said:


> It does not last, the putting on airs. Eventually, the true character always *rises to the surface *because we are human.


Like a turd in the punchbowl...


----------



## alte Dame

(I will never drink punch again, lol.)


----------



## bandit.45

alte Dame said:


> (I will never drink punch again, lol.)


It's in your head now. It will never leave. :lol:


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> This is so ridiculously spot-on. She is putting on a show for OM and the world, but I already know her, and she knows that. She isn't this person.


And that is why she resents you. She doesn't want to be that person, Mrs. Donesies, anymore. The harder you chase, the farther she will run.

If you try to play the pick-me dance, that is the most unattractive thing to a WW. Beg, cry, reason with her, point out what a loser she is with, point out she is ruining two families including 3 children, point out how great she had it, apologize for being who you are, promise to change, promise to give her back her journals, promise her anything, and it not only won't bring her back, it will make you look contemptible and weak in her eyes.

That ship has sailed. Your marriage is over, kaput, done, finito, mort, terminal, gone to the happy hunting ground...

I am sorry to be so abrupt. I know you are suffering from the greatest pain there is, but you have to come to terms with reality. We are all suffering with you. But your only action is strength, courage, and decisiveness. You have done that with your brain, but your heart isn't in it. I guess the only cure is time and distance.

Once again, talk to the OBS. That OM & your WW are hurting her and her kids. You need to find your anger and bring an end to that.


----------



## Survivn13

donesies said:


> This is so ridiculously spot-on. She is putting on a show for OM and the world, but I already know her, and she knows that. She isn't this person.


Her and OM are both showing each other their bright shiny sides. My ex left me for "someone who could make her laugh". I guess I was running low on material after 17 years. Anyway their relationship didn't last and her life spiraled down into the abyss. I'm betting that will happen to your WW someday as well.

Her actions have demonstrated she doesn't love you or even care about you. So why would you want to be with someone like that?


----------



## donesies

Dyokemm said:


> Donsies,
> 
> You took great action in dealing with your WW and getting yourself out of infidelity ASAP after discovering the A......you blew her little charade up and got the a fantastic settlement.
> 
> In your posts since WW left, however, I am getting the sense from you that your swift and no-nonsense approach was intended by you to at least in part ‘wake her up’ to what she was going to lose.....and part of you has been hoping since that she would come to her senses, end the A, and approach you about R.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with this if you wanted R.....and IMO the swift and brutal initiation of D was the right path to take, because even if it didn’t work you would be well on your way to moving on from your WW.
> 
> If you were hoping she might wake up, end the A, and make an attempt to enter R with you.....then the one mistake you made was in not killing the A by exposing it to all friends and family.....and, most importantly, to this POSOM’s BW.
> 
> You have not killed Fantasyland.....
> 
> You made one half-hearted attempt to reach the OBS.....and have never followed up.
> 
> If you really did want a shot at R....this was your fatal mistake.
> 
> POSOM has been allowed to continue chasing your WW unimpeded by the fact his own M and family were exploding around him, including the possibility he would lose half of his assets and his time with his kids.
> 
> OM is living in his ideal situation.....better in fact now that your WW has left and he can have access to her any time he wants, while still having his family on the side.
> 
> You seem to have been focused for the recent past on wondering why your WW is moving on so quick and would she possibly come back....almost tortured by the fact she has so quickly cut you off.
> 
> Of course she has.....she is living in Dreamland with POSOM....no doubt convinced that he will soon be leaving his M to join her.
> 
> Dollars to donuts, however, if you had made exposing this turd to his BW a priority, he would have dropped your WW like a hot rock and run back to save his own a**.
> 
> Several posters have continued to ask recently if you have heard back from scumbag’s BW or ensured that she has been informed of the A....but you have not addressed these questions.
> 
> If you are still even remotely thinking about taking your WW back if she were to return.....then you absolutely MUST follow up on exposing the A to OBS.....
> 
> And exposing it to both families and all friends will help with the ‘badmouthing’ by your WW issue/problem you mentioned earlier as well.
> 
> At this point....either completely accept your D and put the entire situation in the past and be satisfied with the good deal you got....or if you want ANY chance to try to recover your M, then stop procrastinating and fooling around and EXPOSE the A wide and far.
> 
> Because simply hoping your WW might wake up isn’t going to work.


I am trying...I am. I have done so much so quickly. It wasn't a half-hearted attempt to blow things up with OMW. I wrote her through every route that I could find. I am still working on it. I WILL get in touch with OMW. I absolutely will.

I have a day job in addition to the rest of this crap. This is not easy!


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I am trying...I am. I have done so much so quickly. It wasn't a half-hearted attempt to blow things up with OMW. I wrote her through every route that I could find. I am still working on it. I WILL get in touch with OMW. I absolutely will.
> 
> I have a day job in addition to the rest of this crap. This is not easy!


Take your time Doc. Time is on your side. You are the one in control here, and your ex is running. Let her run.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> If you try to play the pick-me dance, that is the most unattractive thing to a WW. Beg, cry, reason with her, point out what a loser she is with, point out she is ruining two families including 3 children, point out how great she had it, apologize for being who you are, promise to change, promise to give her back her journals, promise her anything, and it not only won't bring her back, it will make you look contemptible and weak in her eyes


I am NOT doing any of that. I came to you guys first and you straightened me out


----------



## Rick Blaine

Do you have friends and family to lean to on? Just having them around-even if you are not discussing the issues with them--helps.


----------



## 2asdf2

If you already took care of it, ignore me.

A few sessions with a therapist may be in order here to help you talk it out. Some Lexapro or similar could also be very helpful.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> I am NOT doing any of that. I came to you guys first and you straightened me out


Donesies:

I know you aren't, but you are questioning if you have taken the right path. I was trying to show you what the opposite of what you have done would look like.

You are doing what you have to do. In infidelity, there is no wonder cure. Its painful no matter what you do. As they say, its the gift that keeps on giving. 

You *are* on the right path. Stay strong, stay courageous, and stay decisive.


----------



## Blacksmith01

donesies said:


> but I already know her, and she knows that.


And why she will try to destroy you if you let her.


----------



## alte Dame

@donesies, you are wise to listen to the men of TAM. I have been here a while and have seen the cheater's script play out over and over again. I've also seen the script of the brokenhearted BS played out with each new thread.

If you listen to the advice here, you stand the best chance of being ahead of the curve and coming out of all of this with your dignity and self-respect intact. So many BS's tell us that they cringe when they look back on their reactions to infidelity. It's a regret that stays with them essentially forever.

So, you don't have to follow the script to the letter. You can be wise to it. The TAM guys are helping with that. (I'm an old broad watching and cheering you on.) 

You're on the right track. You're a great guy with literally everything a good woman could ask for. Keep following the lead here and your WW will be the one with regrets, not you.


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> It's a gut feeling based on a few things.
> 
> She sold her car and bought another and has been tight-lipped about where she is living. She is doing this to hide from me. Not good.
> 
> Also, some of her friends have de-friended me on facebook. Although there could be other explanations there, I have never had a problem with any of them personally so I don't know why they would clip me.


So is that why she wants the copies of her journal your have in your possession? Because they would show that her thoughts are all about the other guy (lover-boy) WITHOUT ONE WORD of allegation of abuse against you?

If so, yet another reason to NEVER GIVE THEM UP!


----------



## sandcastle

Donesies-
You live up to your username.
Just be Donesies and thank your lucky stars you got her out of your life for 10 cents on the dollar.

Go forth and find a woman that deserves you.


----------



## Blacksmith01

sandcastle said:


> Donesies-
> You live up to your username.
> Just be Donesies and thank your lucky stars you got her out of your life for 10 cents on the dollar.
> 
> Go forth and find a woman that deserves you.


Or spend that time to work on you and wait.


----------



## Chuck71

blahfridge said:


> Donesies, I'm going to jump in on this one because I sense that this may be mitigating factor in your mind for what she did to you and your marriage. Yes, not being able to have children has to be devastating for a young couple. I am three for three - I have three children, but also lost three pregnancies. That in itself was devastating, but I was lucky enough to still be able to get pregnant again.
> 
> 
> It was during my last pregnancy that my H began cheating on me, if he can be believed. I know the pregnancy losses took an emotional toll on both of us and was incredibly stressful to our marriage. But I've never once attributed his decision as a reaction to our marital trauma and neither should you. She could have done any number of things to help her process that devastation other than cheat. If I am remembering correctly, you posted earlier that your WS was opposed to adoption. Why was she? It's a blessing to be able to afford to adopt, some couples wait for years but you two could have easily arranged and paid for a legal overseas adoption. She could have opened your home to foster children, volunteered with children, or just been grateful that she had you and enjoyed the freedom that not having children would have presented.
> 
> 
> Yes, it's a tragedy for a woman who desperately wants a child to know that she cannot conceive. But life is full of hard disappointments for everyone. She sounds spoiled and unable to appreciate the good things in her life.


Doc..... the reason I asked about her reaction to not being able to bear children is.... this may have 

played a factor in her "impulse behavior." If it did indeed, -knock the wind out of her sails- then

it was traumatic to her. Not that it justifies it, but maybe played a part. She always wanted kids,

wanted to be a mom, I'm strongly guessing her g/fs at the Ladies Club... all had kids. She wanted to

be a SAHM.... and the M, stood for mom. In my thirty years of awareness, I can not name many

females whom I knew, who could not have children. But the ones I can, and that number is

similar to the number of fingers on my hand.... turned into "town strouts." Anger, resentment, betrayal 

of faith, and being shunned were the main reasons why their life path was diverted. Still to this day

in way too many areas, one is still judged by their reproductive ability. Example... I was researching pop's

family tree and hit a snag not far in. The only relative I even knew of, of his, was his sister.

Pop was the black sheep of the family back in the 1960s and 70s.... I had not even spoke to his 

sister in nearly twenty years (pop's death). Called her...to ask about relatives...first question I got was

-How many kids you got now- When I said none, you'd think I shot her damn dog.

I reside near the TN / GA / NC border.... yeah, dem mountains. Whar dem ******** n hillbillies rome.

Area is well known fer moonshine, dumb ass utube videos including the words /hold muh beer n watch this/,

rebuilding transmissions, and reproducing. "Yous ain't sheet n'less yous have you sum babies"

Even if your shoe size and IQ are in the same neighborhood. 

Doc... I bring this up because I do not know what area your STBXW came from and what family

pressures were on her, to reproduce. But if her main objective in life.... was to be a mom and take care

of her family..... then the news was almost like a death blow to her. Again... this is no excuse.... but

could be a reason why she went BSC.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> So I'm curious what you guys think:
> 
> If I go no-contact, will she reach out to me eventually or just move on?


She will.... bet the farm.... and bet mine while you're at it. The burning question.... is why.

Remorseful? Why... what she did or fact she was caught?
Regret?
Financial reasons?
Not wanting to be alone?

Doc.... you want her to...... to either ask why, to maybe R, or to maybe get the chance to tell her to F off.

Which one (or more) is it?


----------



## bandit.45

*Dear STBXW....

This is the last msg I ever send you. You wanted to go and I'm letting you go. We're divorcing. It's done. I have no intention of ever contacting you again except through my lawyer. You have nothing to fear from me. I will leave you alone as long as you leave me alone. But if I get word that you are talking derogatorily about me in public, or disparaging me in any way to your friends and social group, or spreading false rumors that I was controlling, jealous or abusive, then I will take legal measures against you for defamation and slander. I'm not going to allow you to tear down my reputation just because you could not be faithful in our marriage. 

If you think I am kidding try me. 

Cheers. 

Your STBXH. *


----------



## SentHereForAReason

bandit.45 said:


> *Dear STBXW....
> 
> This is the last msg I ever send you. You wanted to go and I'm letting you go. We're divorcing. It's done. I have no intention of ever contacting you again except through my lawyer. You have nothing to fear from me. I will leave you alone as long as you leave me alone. But if I get word that you are talking derogatorily about me in public, or disparaging me in any way to your friends and social group, or spreading false rumors that I was controlling, jealous or abusive, then I will take legal measures against you for defamation and slander. I'm not going to allow you to tear down my reputation just because you could not be faithful in our marriage.
> 
> If you think I am kidding try me.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Your STBXH. *


Cheers! lol


----------



## donesies

sandcastle said:


> Donesies-
> You live up to your username.
> Just be Donesies and thank your lucky stars you got her out of your life for 10 cents on the dollar.
> 
> Go forth and find a woman that deserves you.


5 cents


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> 5 cents


even better


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> 5 cents


Which if she ever does try and come back will be the single driving factor. You got a sweetheart deal and sooner or later someone is gonna tell her what she "could" have received. She has 2 moves, either try and battle in court which will be lengthy and expensive or crawl back and say "I'm sorry", that fixes everything.....

If/when that happens you mention post-nup and watch her get mad and leave.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Have you had time, and I know you are busy, to discuss some of the stuff that's been happening with her with your lawyer? Some of the stuff is nit picky but some of it could reflect on you professionally. If she is doing that, then you need to go to *war*.issed:


----------



## donesies

Chuck71 said:


> She will.... bet the farm.... and bet mine while you're at it. The burning question.... is why.
> 
> Remorseful? Why... what she did or fact she was caught?
> Regret?
> Financial reasons?
> Not wanting to be alone?
> 
> Doc.... you want her to...... to either ask why, to maybe R, or to maybe get the chance to tell her to F off.
> 
> Which one (or more) is it?


I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.


R with a remourseless cheater would be the biggest mistake of your young life.

Why subject yourself and your future with this?

Your heart is overruling your brain.

Better wake up


----------



## stro

donesies said:


> Chuck71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> She will.... bet the farm.... and bet mine while you're at it. The burning question.... is why.
> 
> Remorseful? Why... what she did or fact she was caught?
> Regret?
> Financial reasons?
> Not wanting to be alone?
> 
> Doc.... you want her to...... to either ask why, to maybe R, or to maybe get the chance to tell her to F off.
> 
> Which one (or more) is it?
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.
Click to expand...

 I don’t blame ya. I couldn’t imagine going though what you are going through without sitting down with her and having a long conversation about all of it. Whether you divorce or recover, all the question marks can be answered. But it would have to be an honest, forthcoming, non emotional talk, not an argument. I know that’s A tough ask in these situations but I would need to do that.


----------



## Chuck71

stro said:


> I don’t blame ya. I couldn’t imagine going though what you are going through without sitting down with her and having a long conversation about all of it. Whether you divorce or recover, all the question marks can be answered. But it would have to be an honest, forthcoming, non emotional talk, not an argument. I know that’s A tough ask in these situations but I would need to do that.


You don't get that with a cheater....... honesty and cheating go together like oil and water....

Actions speak louder than words and her actions...... told her story.....


----------



## Cynthia

Cheater = Liar
You cannot have an honest, forthcoming conversation with a lying cheater. You may be honest and forthcoming, but she won't be. She will continue to lie and she will also rewrite history.



stro said:


> I don’t blame ya. I couldn’t imagine going though what you are going through without sitting down with her and having a long conversation about all of it. Whether you divorce or recover, all the question marks can be answered. But it would have to be an honest, forthcoming, non emotional talk, not an argument. I know that’s A tough ask in these situations but I would need to do that.


----------



## Chuck71

sandcastle said:


> Donesies-
> You live up to your username.
> Just be Donesies and thank your lucky stars you got her out of your life for 10 cents on the dollar.
> 
> Go forth and find a woman that deserves you.


Doc.... just stay away from the Russian prostitutes.....


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.


Egh.... yeah.... we get it.... ya still love her. It WILL pass.

Could you love her again.... yeah. But could you trust her?

You can love and not trust but it is a soul destroying type of love.... 

You're a doc.... you know what high stress can do to a human. Do you want that?


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.


Donesies:

R ? I understand you are devastated, and as I said you have done all the right things to put yourself in an unheard of position here. 

May I ask what you are ready to give up on in order to R? I am not trying to be cruel in asking this. I am just truly puzzled. 

1. Has she in any way, shape, or form indicated that she is going to end it with the other man?

2. Have you gone in person to the OBS with proof in hand that her husband is in an A with your WW? That is the best and fastest way to end an affair. Don't believe me, ask anyone on this board. If you want that affair to end, YOU HAVE TO TAKE ACTION.

3. Has she in any way, shape, or form indicated that she wants to R?

4. As she has been slandering your name, has that indicated in any way, shape, or form, that she has any feelings left for you?

5. Are you ready to give her back her journals so that she doesn't think you are a scumbag any more?

6. Have you run this change of heart past your lawyer to see what he thinks?

7. Will you promise to change your ways so that she will love you again? 

8. I am sorry, but there is no "R" with an unrepentant cheater. You are the prize here, not her. For you to be able to consider "R" she should be on her knees, snot-nosed, weeping, and begging that you don't leave her. And even that wouldn't be indicative of real remorse. 

9. You are kidding yourself unless you understand these things. I am sorry I have been bugging you. I will stop now. Good luck Doc. I only wish the best for you.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.


Doc, I'm going to say to you the same thing I said to my son whose girl walked out. When you're depressed over losing her and wanting her back, is it her you want back or is it really the concept of a lady companion, wife, and partner that's in love with you and who you love and who puts the marriage above virtually all else? In other words, if you had that in another woman would you want her if you met her?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I honestly don't know, Chuck. Probably to discuss R.


Donesies, you need a holiday.


----------



## Suspicious1

Remeber she has ruin Valentine's day for you forever! 

Every Feb 14 will be a cruel reminder of the hurt and devastation your STBXW injected into a supposedly day of love which will be quite the opposite. Red & Pink windows displays will only be a day of triggering, as long as you walk this earth.

That in my book is unforgivable!

S1






Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

VladDracul said:


> Doc, I'm going to say to you the same thing I said to my son whose girl walked out. When you're depressed over losing her and wanting her back, is it her you want back or is it really the concept of a lady companion, wife, and partner that's in love with you and who you love and who puts the marriage above virtually all else? In other words, if you had that in another woman would you want her if you met her?


Read this repeatedly until it sinks in, @donesies.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> R ? I understand you are devastated, and as I said you have done all the right things to put yourself in an unheard of position here.
> 
> May I ask what you are ready to give up on in order to R? I am not trying to be cruel in asking this. I am just truly puzzled.
> 
> 1. Has she in any way, shape, or form indicated that she is going to end it with the other man?
> 
> 2. Have you gone in person to the OBS with proof in hand that her husband is in an A with your WW? That is the best and fastest way to end an affair. Don't believe me, ask anyone on this board. If you want that affair to end, YOU HAVE TO TAKE ACTION.
> 
> 3. Has she in any way, shape, or form indicated that she wants to R?
> 
> 4. As she has been slandering your name, has that indicated in any way, shape, or form, that she has any feelings left for you?
> 
> 5. Are you ready to give her back her journals so that she doesn't think you are a scumbag any more?
> 
> 6. Have you run this change of heart past your lawyer to see what he thinks?
> 
> 7. Will you promise to change your ways so that she will love you again?
> 
> 8. I am sorry, but there is no "R" with an unrepentant cheater. You are the prize here, not her. For you to be able to consider "R" she should be on her knees, snot-nosed, weeping, and begging that you don't leave her. And even that wouldn't be indicative of real remorse.
> 
> 9. You are kidding yourself unless you understand these things. I am sorry I have been bugging you. I will stop now. Good luck Doc. I only wish the best for you.


1. No, but I believe that's inevitable

2. I have not been able to get in touch with her. I believe OM is running interference. I am NOT GOING TO GO IN PERSON. I am a doctor with a high profile in the community. I don't need a restraining order slapped on my ****

3. No. The opposite in fact. Changed her name everywhere and going to more social functions without her ring.

4. I can't prove slander at this point, but I do believe it. No indication she loves and respects me anymore.

5. No

6. Yes. He said it's normal to have these ups and downs. He thinks I did the right thing, although obviously he has benefited financially from it.

7. No

8. and 9. YOU HAVE NOT been bugging me. You've been really insightful and helpful. Honestly...without this forum and thread and people like you, I would be so much worse off


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> Doc, I'm going to say to you the same thing I said to my son whose girl walked out. When you're depressed over losing her and wanting her back, is it her you want back or is it really the concept of a lady companion, wife, and partner that's in love with you and who you love and who puts the marriage above virtually all else? In other words, if you had that in another woman would you want her if you met her?


Ok. If I had some new hot *** girlfriend that I was in love with, I wouldn't care


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> 1. No, but I believe that's inevitable
> 
> 2. I have not been able to get in touch with her. I believe OM is running interference. I am NOT GOING TO GO IN PERSON. I am a doctor with a high profile in the community. I don't need a restraining order slapped on my ****
> 
> 3. No. The opposite in fact. Changed her name everywhere and going to more social functions without her ring.
> 
> 4. I can't prove slander at this point, but I do believe it. No indication she loves and respects me anymore.
> 
> 5. No
> 
> 6. Yes. He said it's normal to have these ups and downs. He thinks I did the right thing, although obviously he has benefited financially from it.
> 
> 7. No
> 
> 8. and 9. YOU HAVE NOT been bugging me. You've been really insightful and helpful. Honestly...without this forum and thread and people like you, I would be so much worse off


Donesies, 

She hid what she was up to from you so she has actually already been living a double life for quite some time now. She has had more time to detach. You however had this thrust upon you 30 days ago with no notice. So is perfectly normal for you to have these ups and down and have this sense of bewilderment and sadness. 

Ask your attorney to try and get the court clerk to expedite the judges signing and filing of divorce decree. Clerks have much influence on calendars. Perhaps your attorney explaining to the clerk who will pass along to judge that she signed, moved out, cashed her checks, bought a car, changed her name and stopped wearing her wedding rings is a sign that she has moved on and it no way will contest it now. That you however are a betrayed spouse left in bewilderment over her actions and just needs this finalized that you may move on with your life. As she clearly has. Because once that decree is finalized then you can seriously contact the OMs wife and start really blowing up her affair at all these social functions she flutters about in. 

You don't need to hide from her or minimize to anyone what she has done. Just time it right.


----------



## Vinnydee

I was in a similar situation with a fiancée who was cheating with a high school drop out with a lot of body hair who was known to treat women as pieces of meat. He was also one of my Army buddies and would tell how he did this and that to the girl he had sex with and not in a good way. He was crude and made little money. I made in the top 5% of the nation and gave my fiancée anything she wanted. I could not figure out why she loved him but I guess she wanted someone who treated her like a piece of meat, for that is how he treated her. She was even giving him money for support. I was as puzzled as you are.

I guess the expression of what the heart wants, the heart wants fits. Most who cheat like this do not realize that it is easy to fall in love with someone who will take your side and sympathize with you just to get into your panties. They are with the guy for only the fun and games part of life and do not have to deal with living with a man 98% of the time in a non sexual way. Who wouldn't love someone that you only see to have orgasms and who takes your side no matter how wrong you are.

This is why I tell men and women not to trust anyone 100%. Have a healthy dose of mistrust and you will be not blindsided. Often a cheating spouse or girl/boyfriend will use their spouse as a safety net in case things do not work out. In your case your wife was using you as her safety net since her new love is married with kids. Most guys who cheat will say that they cannot leave their wife due to the kids but will hold the carrot out to keep her on the hook for as long as possible as long as she is having sex with him.

I left my fiancée even though she said she cheated only once despite my friends telling me otherwise. The guy she cheated with was friends with friends of my friends and word got back to them and then to me. The idiot was bragging about it to anyone who would listen. Yet she told me it was only one time. I thought about, it but even if she was dead serious about making it work, I could never marry someone who I could not trust anymore. Trust takes a very long time to rebuild and even then it will never be like it was before. How can you live with someone who has admitted that they are untrustworthy and a liar? You will always have a knot in your stomach when she is not with you and doctors have long hours. For me it was worse since I spent 3 months a year working overseas and many business trips to other States. I needed someone I could trust and that was not going to be a girl who proved to me that she could not be trusted and who lied so easily to me without any regret. 

In the end it is your decision. I chose to leave and as a result met my wife of 45 years who worships me and it grateful for me taking her out of a life with abusive alcoholic parents which forced her to raise her much younger siblings and flee for her life with them on many occasions. She never thought she would have the kind of life I provided her and she is eternally grateful and has taken good care of me for 45 years. So I now view my fiancée cheating on me to be the best thing that ever happened in my life. If not for that I would never have met my wife. My ex did go on to cheat on others and even her husbands until finally marrying a girl. She became a drug addict and developed mental problems as a result of her drug addiction and her problem of falling in love with every guy she met.

One thing that remains with me and reminds me of the mind of a cheater is when my ex fiancée called me 10 years ago and told me how she found a guy to marry who agreed to pay for her son's college tuition while she was dating her current wife. She said that she divorced him as soon as his last tuition check cleared the bank and laughed about how stupid he was. She was actually proud of how she duped him by letting him think she loved him. That could have been me.


----------



## sandcastle

Chuck71 said:


> Doc.... just stay away from the Russian prostitutes.....


Yeah... Those gals on Anastasia. Com will set you back 499.00 per day.

Roll eye .
Chuck- do try to temper the roll eye before you actually know what you are rolling your eye about.

Roll eye.


----------



## sandcastle

donesies said:


> Ok. If I had some new hot *** girlfriend that I was in love with, I wouldn't care


That is DEEP and perhaps is why you and your faboosh self find yourself with STBXW that cannot wait to get out.

Take your ten cents on the dollar and go find yourself a hot************ babe.


----------



## skerzoid

sandcastle said:


> That is DEEP and perhaps is why you and your faboosh self find yourself with STBXW that cannot wait to get out.
> 
> Take your ten cents on the dollar and go find yourself a hot************ babe.



I guess I am too dumb to understand these.


----------



## sandcastle

skerzoid said:


> I guess I am too dumb to understand these.


Naw- you are not.

4th and inches.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> Ok. If I had some new hot *** girlfriend that I was in love with, I wouldn't care


Speaks volumes my man. If your relationship was such that new and hotness would replace her and is a prerequisite for you being in love, you may want to think about re-entry. It may be an ego thing that you want to recapture the attention of a woman that was willing to take your first "buy out" offer. Just sayin.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> 1. No, but I believe that's inevitable
> 
> 2*. I have not been able to get in touch with her. I believe OM is running interference. I am NOT GOING TO GO IN PERSON. I am a doctor with a high profile in the community. I don't need a restraining order slapped on my *****
> 
> 3. No. The opposite in fact. Changed her name everywhere and going to more social functions without her ring.
> 
> 4. I can't prove slander at this point, but I do believe it. No indication she loves and respects me anymore.
> 
> 5. No
> 
> 6. Yes. He said it's normal to have these ups and downs. He thinks I did the right thing, although obviously he has benefited financially from it.
> 
> 7. No
> 
> 8. and 9. YOU HAVE NOT been bugging me. You've been really insightful and helpful. Honestly...without this forum and thread and people like you, I would be so much worse off


A common ploy used in a D is where the WW files an Order of Protection against her H.

The H does not have to do one single thing, for this to take place. She will simply tear her

top, cry a bit, hit herself just hard enough to show a slight bruise, and maybe.... even bite herself.

She will run to the police and say you came over to her place in the middle of the night wanting to

work things out and when she said no, you attacked her.

Even though.... you have no clue...where she lives, and the fact if you were asleep at 3AM.... how

can you "prove your whereabouts" at..... 3AM. Sounds crazy don't it? Well... it happens.

May need a nanny cam at your door just to cover yourself. Sad you have to be this proactive

but shenanigans such as his, do happen.... and more often than you think.

Even if you appear in court to debunk the charges and the OoP is lifted. it still stains your reputation

at the hospital and community.


----------



## Blacksmith01

Chuck71 said:


> A common ploy used in a D is where the WW files an Order of Protection against her H.
> 
> The H does not have to do one single thing, for this to take place. She will simply tear her
> 
> top, cry a bit, hit herself just hard enough to show a slight bruise, and maybe.... even bite herself.
> 
> She will run to the police and say you came over to her place in the middle of the night wanting to
> 
> work things out and when she said no, you attacked her.
> 
> Even though.... you have no clue...where she lives, and the fact if you were asleep at 3AM.... how
> 
> can you "prove your whereabouts" at..... 3AM. Sounds crazy don't it? Well... it happens.
> 
> May need a nanny cam at your door just to cover yourself. Sad you have to be this proactive
> 
> but shenanigans such as his, do happen.... and more often than you think.
> 
> Even if you appear in court to debunk the charges and the OoP is lifted. it still stains your reputation
> 
> at the hospital and community.


It really does happen. My kids mom used that to try and get what she wanted but the Judge was on to her. I sujest getting a hot 25yo to stay at the house with you so she can vouch for your whereabouts.


----------



## Chuck71

Doc..... what would you want back more, your W or the money you will have to give her?


----------



## alte Dame

I suggest you read @bff's thread for some fortification. He's also a great catch who found his WW cheating with a complete loser. If you skip to the end, you'll see how well he is doing with his new wife and babies. Life goes on and can get much better.


----------



## Malaise

IIRC his wife couldn't conceive as well.


----------



## skerzoid

Sometimes when we are trying to be humorous we are hurting the OP. I am as guilty of this as any. 
When he tries to inject humor, we jump on that and try to dissect it to figure out if there is something DEEP there. I am no genius at this stuff, as you can tell, but I think if behooves us to be thoughtful when we post. The Doc is going through life's worst pain and needs triage, not psychological analysis. Thats for an IC. Legal opinions, he needs to talk to his lawyer. What we can supply is the voice of experience IMHO.


----------



## Cynthia

Malaise said:


> IIRC his wife couldn't conceive as well.


Not only is this correct, but they were days away from adopting a baby. When he realized what was going on, he cancelled the adoption and his ex will probably never realize her dream of having a child. That woman screwed up in amazing ways. He then divorced her and has a new wife and a child with her. Here's the thread. It is long, but I recommended earlier in this thread that you would benefit from reading it and I still think you would, probably more than before since you are having such a difficult time of it right now. I think his thread would give you courage and hope for your future. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html


----------



## Coach23

_If you are want another shot at this, then blow it up. Tell the OM's wife.

If you are divorcing, then wait to tell OM's spouse. Just file for divorce.
Don't make her bitter she lost her boyfriend. She wil take it out on you.

In my opinion, especially without any kids, you need to be looking hard at divorce.
I took all night thinking about it. I am going to file. After I file, I am seriously debating telling the OM’s wife_

*I agree to do what in your best interest initially but then let me ask, If it was his wife that found out and not you, would you want her to tell you or just let this guy continue to bang your wife? This guy is a home wrecker and there is no reason he should get out unscathed. If he does he will just do it again to some other poor soul. You have a responsibility to the next guy and the home wreckers wife. She may want to move onto someone who will love and respect her. That is her choice not yours.*


----------



## donesies

sandcastle said:


> That is DEEP and perhaps is why you and your faboosh self find yourself with STBXW that cannot wait to get out.
> 
> Take your ten cents on the dollar and go find yourself a hot************ babe.


It's 5 CENTS!


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> Speaks volumes my man. If your relationship was such that new and hotness would replace her and is a prerequisite for you being in love, you may want to think about re-entry. It may be an ego thing that you want to recapture the attention of a woman that was willing to take your first "buy out" offer. Just sayin.


I’ve thought about this a bit more.  

I know what I said here, but I’m not actually entirely sure that it’s true. The fact is, that I don’t have this amazingly hot supermodel girlfriend. And obviously I’m not completely stupid: I realize that looks alone are not going to make me happy. There has to be charisma and intelligence and fun.

I honestly don’t know whether or not having Hey girl that I am more interested in and attracted to would actually make me forget her or even make me not want her. In my head, I certainly hope that would be the case, but having not lived it, I honestly don’t know.

This was my wife and I do love her. It’s such a deep connection and when I never thought I would share with anyone else.


----------



## threelittlestars

Hey man.... Im 30 years old and I got to tell you....A DOCTOR, yOu ArE a DOCTOR! do you know how many women (plan) to snag a doctor? I personally never was one of them. I had no plans... But yeah, women hot and not will be throwing themselves at you. 

So.... Don't worry. You will find someone. Just this time, don't focus on hotness. Not saying to go for UGLY, just attempt a meeting of minds and hearts instead of just loins.


----------



## donesies

Chuck71 said:


> Doc..... what would you want back more, your W or the money you will have to give her?


If I got my wife back, I would want the money. If I got the money back, I would want my wife. 

Being human sucks


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> If I got my wife back, I would want the money. If I got the money back, I would want my wife.
> 
> Being human sucks


Still undecided?


----------



## 3putt

Chuck71 said:


> Still undecided?


Once again, let's not forget it's only been a month since Dday for him. He's still just floored.


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> I’ve thought about this a bit more.
> 
> I know what I said here, but I’m not actually entirely sure that it’s true. The fact is, that I don’t have this amazingly hot supermodel girlfriend. And obviously I’m not completely stupid: I realize that looks alone are not going to make me happy. There has to be charisma and intelligence and fun.
> 
> I honestly don’t know whether or not having Hey girl that I am more interested in and attracted to would actually make me forget her or even make me not want her. In my head, I certainly hope that would be the case, but having not lived it, I honestly don’t know.
> 
> This was my wife and I do love her. It’s such a deep connection and when I never thought I would share with anyone else.


Your emotional heart is going to torment your brain for a while, from a time line standpoint this is all new and fresh. You've made great strides and have moved with lightning speed which is the best course. Too many wallow and get stuck with inaction, I was guilty of that in the beginning. 

Hypothetical but if she did try and come back what you would find as many others have is that it's never the same as it was. She blindsided you with this and because of that your never going to have a deep trust with her ever again. You'd have an initial euphoria and everything would be good as everyone is on best behavior but that fades and the old routines start creeping back in. Of the couples that I've known who have tried to reconcile after infidelity all have eventually divorced within 5 years. 

Reconciliation is possible but both parties tend to underestimate the amount of work it takes. Do you believe have has it in her to do the "hard work" or will she just bail when times get tough again?

Being in your financial position I'd go thru with the divorce, you'll never get a deal like this again. It will cost you a great deal more later and while I hate putting a marriage into financial terms but given your work and earnings potential you've got to consider it. Divorce her, you can always date her afterwards. A friend of mine divorced, year or two later started dating her again and got remarried, this time with a post-nup. A year after that busted her cheating again and divorced....again.


----------



## sandcastle

donesies said:


> It's 5 CENTS!


I can feel your pain.
Palpable, gut wrenching pain.
We all know it should be no cents and yet you continue in the nonsense.


You got dumped.
Get over it.


----------



## Handy

Doc, if it was me, a "hot new love" wouldn't be my main concern but someone like minded would. When it comes to money or someone that cheated on me, I would not be that concerned about the money I would have to pay out. Love, dependability, trust, quality companionship counts way more than money.

When you indicated a new quality woman would take away some of the emotional turmoil in your life, I immediately thought you should just just have some quality time (nothing romantic and NO looking for Mrs Right) with a woman. To me, you wrote your own Rx for the emotional upset you currently feel.

I read w divorced woman's forum and they often come to the forum all broken up and damaged emotionally. When most date (nothing serious) the mostly all say it helps them to get over their X's and lifts then out of the dumps. A few women still want the old H back but getting back your spouse like they were when first married isn't ever going to happen. People change, dogs change, you can't get your dog to ever go back to its puppy stage.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> This was my wife and I do love her. It’s such a deep connection and when I never thought I would share with anyone else.


Donesies, I haven't read every post but are you sure beyond a reasonable doubt she was sleeping with another guy? What limited amount I read seemed somewhat circumstantial. Whether she was or not, did you ever determine why she lost interest in you and the marriage to the point where she just willingly cashed in her chips? In the final analysis, what determines if a woman wants to be with a man is how the woman feels about the man; not vice versa. 
Before you consider getting back together, you need to determine the cause of the breakdown. People usually don't cheat when they are in a healthy relationship. (at least that's my observation)


----------



## skerzoid

sandcastle said:


> I can feel your pain.
> Palpable, gut wrenching pain.
> We all know it should be no cents and yet you continue in the nonsense.
> 
> 
> You got dumped.
> Get over it.




Sounds like Doc needs to purchase a trunk monkey to deal with sandcastle.


----------



## sandcastle

skerzoid said:


> Sounds like Doc needs to purchase a trunk monkey to deal with sandcastle.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Y3hqakfI4


He has to deal with his poof wifey.

I should be the least of his fab life problems.

Punt? Or punch it in.


----------



## sandcastle

And word on the street is any and all Trunk Monkey fans are/ is on the endangered specie list.

Who actually made that video and better yet- who actually knows it exists and posts it.

Horrible offensive coaching.


----------



## TDSC60

Understand that the deep connection you felt for her was one sided. She did not feel it for you.
You are still in love with her while she does not return that love.
You must realize that the connection, love, and feelings all originated with you. She has none of these for you. She is no longer the woman you married. She is no longer who you thought she was. 

Realization must come first. You are who you are and she is who she is. She is not in love with you. She feels no connection with you. Accept it and stop longing for a return to the past. Your wife of the past is gone. That person is dead - never to return. Mourn her passing then move forward.


----------



## just got it 55

bandit.45 said:


> This is why it is always important to expose the truth to the immediate families at the very least. No matter how much she tries to cover it, the truth always rises to the surface. You will be vindicated. Just be true to yourself.


Spot on @bandit.45

No Matter *WHOOH* Believes WHAT

The TRUTH will always Be

55


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> This was my wife and I do love her. It’s such a deep connection and when I never thought I would share with anyone else.
> 
> 
> 
> Donesies, I haven't read every post but are you sure beyond a reasonable doubt she was sleeping with another guy? What limited amount I read seemed somewhat circumstantial. Whether she was or not, did you ever determine why she lost interest in you and the marriage to the point where she just willingly cashed in her chips? In the final analysis, what determines if a woman wants to be with a man is how the woman feels about the man; not vice versa.
> Before you consider getting back together, you need to determine the cause of the breakdown. People usually don't cheat when they are in a healthy relationship. (at least that's my observation)
Click to expand...

Positive. She admitted to it. She told me she loved him FCS

I’ve been thinking about those other things CONSTANTLY


----------



## manfromlamancha

donesies said:


> Positive. She admitted to it. She told me she loved him FCS
> 
> I’ve been thinking about those other things CONSTANTLY


She admitted to sleeping with him ?


----------



## BobSimmons

donesies said:


> Ok. If I had some new hot *** girlfriend that I was in love with, I wouldn't care


You're "single".

Go and date.

Go and have fun.

Mess up on a first date, say the wrong thing, cringe with embarrassment.

Hit it off with another woman, let the conversation flow and be excited about not knowing what's up ahead.

You're a doctor, you've basically got your pick.

You have freedom. Why not enjoy it?


----------



## TeddieG

TDSC60 said:


> Understand that the deep connection you felt for her was one sided. She did not feel it for you.
> You are still in love with her while she does not return that love.
> You must realize that the connection, love, and feelings all originated with you. She has none of these for you. She is no longer the woman you married. She is no longer who you thought she was.
> 
> Realization must come first. You are who you are and she is who she is. She is not in love with you. She feels no connection with you. Accept it and stop longing for a return to the past. Your wife of the past is gone. That person is dead - never to return. Mourn her passing then move forward.


This. I had to accept it about my h. He may have loved me once, but now I question if he ever really knew what love is. I think for him it is lust and limerance, and when that ends, off he goes. I spent a long time trying to figure out if my h was the guy he was for the first 13 years I knew him or the guy he became and was in the last 7 years. I finally decided if he WAS the guy, once, that he had been, he was no more, and that guy was dead, if he ever existed - he seemed to cope with his bi polar and other issues, or perhaps he was putting on a front; either way, that's the guy I fell in love with, but that guy is gone. 

And I can say that I feared that if that old guy came back, it wasn't fair that he wasn't with me after all I'd been through with him, and that he was that guy for a *****. But in the end, it didn't matter because if he wasn't capable of being that guy, if he didn't have the skills to cope with a health issue and fell apart at the prospect of his mortality, he really wasn't a guy I could handle being with.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Donesies, She is gone. Move forward, not backwards. She provided you nothing, absolutely zero in terms of an explanation. Only she knows the truth and cowards (which by her actions she clearly is) don't usually admit the truth, not even to themselves until pressed by incontrovertible evidence or to gain some advantage like combating a bigger lie. There are a thousands of equally plausible reasons why she left that you and others can think up. An exercise in futility because only she knows and she is too chicken to tell you. 

So dwelling on why with no real proof will keep you in a limbo of emotional hell for a very long time. Do yourself a huge favor and move from asking 'why' to 'I may never know why and I have to be ok with that'. 

Her actions have told you everything you need to know. Her words are meaningless, like Judas telling Jesus I'm sorry after selling him out. Just move forward.

Not to be a nag but are you moving forward on a real exposure to OMs wife?


----------



## blahfridge

3putt said:


> Once again, let's not forget it's only been a month since Dday for him. He's still just floored.


Yes to the above. I have to wonder sometimes how many of those posting have actually been through this kind of trauma. It's not something you get over by just telling yourself the Ex is a skank, a ***** monger (whatever) who doesn't deserve a second thought. Some of the armchair cheerers seem to forget that this is a man who still loves the woman he married, even if she's not the same person anymore. 

Danny, give yourself permission to have second thoughts, to occasionally indulge in what ifs, to cry and to mourn what has been lost. Like others have said, try to focus on what her actions are telling you right now. 

I will tell you that I'm years out from discovering my H infidelity and one of my biggest regrets is that I wasn't decisive when I first found out. But I don't consider the years I've stayed as wasted. I shepherded my children through the end of high school and I built a new career for myself by getting a graduate degree. What didn't happen was my being able to forget what he did and see him again as a viable partner. I lost my innocence about marriage and love through his actions. I can see that he's a decent person, really. That he loves his children and would do anything for them, and that he now regrets how he treated me and is generally kind and considerate toward me. Still, it doesn't matter. What's gone is gone and can never really be brought back. 

Consider whether or not you could say something different in five years if you were to reconcile with your wife and proceed from there. This assumes, of course, that she were to show remorse and want to save the marriage herself. So far, she's given you zero indication that this is the case. What she has shown is that she's done with you. I think you just need to catch up with her. But if you want to give it one last ditch effort, then go ahead and contact her. There's no shame in that. There's no shame in anything you have done in this situation. Do what feels right for you. 

Sending healing thoughts your way, Doc Donesies.


----------



## skerzoid

As far as exposure to OBS, could you have the PI do it? 

I think you are stuck on this because you can't damage you're reputation, and that is understandable. However, if she continues to defame you, you may have to do something.

Whatever your lawyer says, do that.  He may have to write her a warning of some sort.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

skerzoid said:


> As far as exposure to OBS, could you have the PI do it?
> 
> I think you are stuck on this because you can't damage you're reputation, and that is understandable. However, if she continues to defame you, you may have to do something.
> 
> Whatever your lawyer says, do that. He may have to write her a warning of some sort.


When i wanted to make sure OMW knew (found out later she did anyway) I asked PI and he said best way was for him (PI) to deliver note and evidence to OMW at her work. Sealed envelope


----------



## donesies

manfromlamancha said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Positive. She admitted to it. She told me she loved him FCS
> 
> I’ve been thinking about those other things CONSTANTLY
> 
> 
> 
> She admitted to sleeping with him ?
Click to expand...

Yes


----------



## Affaircare

3putt said:


> Once again, let's not forget it's only been a month since Dday for him. He's still just floored.


 @donesies, 

I've been following along for the whole thread, and I'm a woman of few words, though I type very long posts. There are a few things I'd like to say. 

1. I quoted @3putt above because this is still so new for you. Those of us who have been here a while (and as you can see, I've been here a long, LONG time) can sometimes get jaded to the initial pain of discovering adultery and trying to deal with it. Oh don't get me wrong, pain on that level is never, EVER forgotten, but if I look back at my own life, it took me two years of steadily learning to go from discovery to feeling like I was doing okay. My guess would be that it takes others a long time as well. To us, we've been down the road, and helped some others go down the road, so the answers can seem kind of obvious to us...and yet we forget that to you it is all fresh, all new, and you have to hear what we say (sometimes it takes a while just to hear it!) and then somehow integrate that into how you think and feel! Long story short--this takes a while and it is a long process. In real life, you are doing PHENOMENALLY well. You are head and shoulders above many who don't even listen. You are very consistently working at it and thinking about it and thinking about yourself and even looking at your own self. This is amazing. Please don't let our impatience to see you not hurt so much discourage you. Believe it or not, it is kind of hard to see people come here, time after time, with this level of pain. 

2. I wanted to talk to you about why she may have chosen to blow up her world and leave. You don't know me, but let me summarize my story: I was married to a very abusive man who cheated on me numerous times, but I was too hopeful to see it. Eventually I caught him red-handed and he did not choose to stop, so we divorced. Isn't it amazing that I can summarize it like that as if it were just statements?  I was married a second time to the love of my life, and we lost a child. This sent both of us into a tailspin--I needed comfort and turned TOWARD...he needed quiet time and WITHDREW...and I mistook that as no longer loving me. I had an online affair, and my Dear Hubby discovered it. It is the deepest regret of my life. BUT...through this we actually were able to reconcile, so when I talk to you about why...and what it would look like...I am speaking from experience and it's important for you to know that. 

Speaking as a recovered wanderer, I suspect I know why she chose to blow up her world--it has very literally NOTHING to do with you. My Dear Hubby was a man among men, a gentle, smart, kind, funny man--so clearly my unfaithfulness was not about him AT ALL. Not one iota. There is something about her, within her, that is broken. Now, I'm not saying she's mentally ill necessarily, but rather there is some need in her that is unhealthy mentally, or some voice within her that is not mature, or some part of her that very muchso NEEDS to grow up and be wise and learn to be a better woman and wife...and her affair is a reflection of that part of her. I'll give you an example from what I've read of your posts. I guess that the sorrow of not being able to have children or something related to that--how she deals with sorrow, or how she deals with grief--is not healthy. She copes using techniques that are self-harming. Now as a child those techniques may have sort of worked to get through things, but as an adult, it's no longer good. It sounds like she may have needed to feel like she was still attractive...or maybe she needed to feel alive and like she wasn't a shriveled up, useless prune as a woman. I get that. People aren't always wise AND sometimes you don't know you have a harmful coping technique until you trip on it by finding out bad news! 

But the reason she looked elsewhere was not a fault in YOU...it was a faultline in her that broke apart when some earthquake hit. She had something inside her that said "I can't have children, therefore I'm no good as a woman" and to prove to herself she was good as a woman she went off and attracted someone. Now this may not be too much comfort to you, as you still saw her value as a woman. But the point here is that it really was not you. Okay...I get it...there may have been weak points or things you could have done better We could all do better, and I hope you'll work on yourself to be better. Good job! But as you think of this, consider what I'm saying. She had a landmine inside her that got tripped...we're not sure what tripped it, but I bet you have a good idea...and she blew up your world because of her issues. 

3. This actually leads me to my final thought: what it would be like if reconciliation was really a possibility. When I had my affair, and my Dear Hubby found out, he did something for me that dropped the scales from my eyes. He wrote straight to the OM and said, "She is my wife and I love her. If you think you can just take her without a fight, you have another thing coming. I will fight for her." He also packed my bags, took me to the train station, and said, "If you want to go, I'm not going to stop you, but know this: if you do go, you will NOT be coming back. I won't share you. You can make up your mind, but if you choose me, I expect you to honor your commitments 100%." 

Now @donesies, it takes real freaking courage to do something like that. He was crying and I knew he felt scared to death I'd choose to go. But in that moment I could see all the pain I'd created and all the damage I'd done and that he was a man of honor and respect. It hit me like a ton of BRICKS. I'm not saying that this is what will "make her want to reconcile" but what I AM saying is that in order for there to even be a possibility of reconciliation, there would have to be a gigantic recognition of personal responsibility on her part. She would have to see, of her own accord, that HER ACTIONS did all this damage to the people she supposedly loved! She'd have to not only regret that she got caught and stands to lose, but also sincerely repent in her heart of being that kind of person! She'd have to look at you and see a man of honor and respect! She'd have to see in you a man who has a firm boundary of expecting 100% FAITHFULNESS and nothing less. She'd have to be humble enough to admit to herself that no matter what you may or may not have done, SHE was wrong. She'd have to care enough about you to care that she had hurt you, and want to do whatever was necessary to heal the wounds she had inflicted. She'd have to willingly learn and practice being open and honest instead of hiding and projecting an image--and man that can be so scary to let someone see the real you! She'd have to voluntarily accept eating some humble pie and yeah that can't last forever but it reasonably should last a while! She'd have to be able to look at herself in the mirror, wince, and then keep looking and keep working to change. 

If you saw THAT kind of behavior, then I'd say that reconciliation MIGHT be possible because she would be thinking correctly. Even then, one of the biggest and hardest concepts to really accept is that the rightful result of having an affair is that the old marriage IS DEAD BY MY HAND. In other words, my Dear Hubby had literally every legal and moral right to say he couldn't do it and walk away...and it wasn't his actions that killed it but mine. I did it. I caused the death. The reason my Dear Hubby is ... was ... my hero is that he had the cajones to stay and rebuild. What courage is that! So my point here is that even IF she realized and thought all that I've written above...you still may not be able to recover! That's completely viable, because the result of adultery is death. 

I would say, that since you are not seeing the kind of behavior I wrote above, that at this time reconciliation really is not even conceivable. There is nothing to rebuild upon. Infidelity is like a bomb, and everything that was built was leveled. You really cannot start taking the little pieces of rubble and start plastering them back together to remake it--you have to sweep away that rubble and start from nothing and build something new. And you really cannot build something new if the people are not new. At this time I don't see any signs of newness from her, and I know that deeply sorrows you, but there it is: the truth. 

That does not mean, however, that YOU can't recover and become new. So don't lose hope. Take your time and think about things, and keep listening, and we'll do our best to guide you through this path. It's horribly hard, isn't it?


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Here is a cutting from Walloped's thread. He is two years out from D-Day but his story is an epic on survivinginfidelity.com . Here is a cutting of him exposing to the OBS. Its worth a read. Mrs. Walloped is on SI also. She just had a total mental breakdown after reading her husband's thread for the first time.
This is worth a read:

My body was sore Sunday morning from running the day before, but I did it again. It felt good. Really good. Cam back and showered. My wife was still in the bedroom. I spent the morning on the computer and her phone, pouring over her texts and emails. She hadn’t deleted anything. My wife is street smart, like I said, but she’s also somewhat naïve. Don’t get me wrong. She’s very smart, but she believes that everyone is inherently good and that everyone had good intentions. I only believe that about her. Or I did. To me, there is evil. Bad people who do bad things. One of the hardest things for me is reconciling that concept with my wife. Does this make her bad? Evil? Or is she inherently a good person who did a horrible thing? I don’t have a good answer just yet and it kills me that I don’t. Anyway, she is naïve though and she never deleted anything. She lied and cheated and hid and sneaked, but she didn’t delete anything. So it was all there for me. The emails and texts. The “I can’t wait to see you’s” and the “love you’s,” the “miss you’s,” the “yesterday was special,” “can’t wait until Thursday” and on and on. There were no sexually explicit emails or texts, thank God. I went back and there were emails from her in March and April that were a combination of minor gripes about me, praising him, and flirting. One liners. Good comebacks, etc. I didn’t read them all. I did forward them all to my email and phone.
She came down somewhere in the middle, saw was I was doing, and then left the room. We didn’t talk much that morning. She made a late lunch. I made my own. Petty of me, I know, but I couldn’t help myself.

And then came the kicker. I was on the computer and decided to do a Google search on POS. By the way, I know everyone here uses the term AP. I much prefer POS, okay? Anyway, one of you put this thought into my head so I followed up on it. Found him and his apartment address on the Upper West Side. Did a White Pages search. Found him there too. Did a search for him in New Jersey. Nothing. Connecticut? Bingo. Has a house. You know how White Pages has that section of people they may know? Woman’s name. Okay, he’s divorced. Makes sense. But I had a hunch, so I called my wife over and gave her one of the handsets to listen in and I called the house (yay me!). Woman answered. I asked if this was Mrs. X. She said yes! I asked if she was married to POS. She got suspicious and asked who I was and what this was about. Well, I hemmed and hawed, and then she said, “Don’t tell me. Who’s the lying sack of s**t f***ing now?” I almost dropped the phone. So…I told her. I told her, with my wife standing next to me listening in that my wife had an affair with POS and that I just found out about on Monday. And that he had said he was divorced. Now, I’ve heard swearing in my time. We all have. But this lady would make sailors blush. Turns out that they’re married but separated. She’s in the house in Connecticut (wealthy neighborhood – think New Canaan if you’re from the Northeast), he’s at their apartment he used for work during the week in Manhattan. Are supposed to be reconciling. Doing marriage counseling, if you can f***ing believe that! Has two boys. One a teenager. One in college. This was the third time he’s cheated that she knows about. I apologized and said I was sorry to be there bearer of such news. I wish I didn’t have to make this call. She was gracious, and obviously in pain. She apologized for her husband and said she was sorry that I had to deal with the fallout from the prick. Her words. My wife had a look of horror on her face the entire time and the tears were just flowing out of her. She gestured that she wanted to say something, so I nodded to her. She told his wife that she was so sorry and that she didn’t know he was married. You know what she answered back? “But you were, you f***ing *****.” My wife just started screaming, I’m sorry! I’m sorry! I’m so sorry! Again and again. I apologized again to Mrs. X, but said for her sake and her boy’s sake, it was important to know what he was doing. She understood. I felt really bad for her. Talk about empathy. I got off the line. My wife was rocking back and forth, hugging her knees, saying she was sorry over and over again. Like a mantra. I’m not proud of myself for this, but I asked her if it was worth it? Was throwing her life away and destroying our marriage, our life, our future, my respect, the kids respect, her self respect, worth it for a f***ing scumbag POS who would f***k a married woman while going to marriage counseling with his wife! She didn’t answer me, just kept crying, and rocking, and saying I’m sorry. Again, I’m not proud, but I took great pleasure in her pain. And then I told her that I hope it was worth it because when she’s alone and lost everything and no one respects her, she at least would be able to have her memories of f***ing Prince Charming to keep her warm at night. I then walked away. I know. Not my best moment. But I had so much rage in me. At him. At her. At my life. I was just so angry. I scared me. I wanted to kill him. But he wasn’t there. She was. And I wanted to strangle her. God help me, I wanted to pound her into sand. So I left the house. I didn’t drive. Thank God. I just walked. And walked. For I don’t know how long.

Later last night I was sitting in the den. The mind movies were going. I couldn’t stop them. I just kept thinking about everything. About them. About my life. I was so scared. Everything I worked for. In the toilet. She came into the room. I didn’t acknowledge her. She didn’t touch me this time. She just grabbed me and hugged me. I tried to get up but she wouldn’t let me. I tried to move her arms. She just held on. She kept saying I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry I did this. I’m so sorry I hurt you. I said, “I hate you.” She said, “I know. I hate me too.” I said I don’t care. She said, “I know. I’m so sorry. I love you. I love you. I love you. I’m sorry” Alternating between the two. I said Bull****. She just kept saying it. I was crying. She was crying. We sat there like that for a very long time.

So that’s where we are today. I’m still in the guest room. I’m okay with that. I have the STD test tomorrow and tomorrow night I am meeting with the attorney my brother recommended. He represented his SIL and my brother said he was very good. I trust him. I am seriously considering the VAR and polygraph. I hear you all about that piece of it and while I don’t like it, I’ll do it if I think it will help. I have absolutely no clue what I’m going to do regarding my marriage. I don’t want to at this point. I’m just trying to survive. I just don’t know if I can get over this regardless of how I feel about her or her me. Maybe it’s still too raw. I don’t know. Whatever. I have time for that. I did discuss counseling with her. Not together. Individually. She agreed. I’m researching therapists. I suggested she ask her sister for advice on that front. This week will be telling. She’s going for her STD test on Wednesday. I also warned her that breaking No Contact would utterly destroy us. She understood and actually had a few choice words about POS that makes me think (or hope?) that she’ll stick to it. We’ll see.


----------



## Rick Blaine

Well put, @Affaircare.


----------



## giddiot

Affaircare said:


> @donesies,
> 
> I've been following along for the whole thread, and I'm a woman of few words, though I type very long posts. There are a few things I'd like to say.
> 
> 1. I quoted @3putt above because this is still so new for you. Those of us who have been here a while (and as you can see, I've been here a long, LONG time) can sometimes get jaded to the initial pain of discovering adultery and trying to deal with it. Oh don't get me wrong, pain on that level is never, EVER forgotten, but if I look back at my own life, it took me two years of steadily learning to go from discovery to feeling like I was doing okay. My guess would be that it takes others a long time as well. To us, we've been down the road, and helped some others go down the road, so the answers can seem kind of obvious to us...and yet we forget that to you it is all fresh, all new, and you have to hear what we say (sometimes it takes a while just to hear it!) and then somehow integrate that into how you think and feel! Long story short--this takes a while and it is a long process. In real life, you are doing PHENOMENALLY well. You are head and shoulders above many who don't even listen. You are very consistently working at it and thinking about it and thinking about yourself and even looking at your own self. This is amazing. Please don't let our impatience to see you not hurt so much discourage you. Believe it or not, it is kind of hard to see people come here, time after time, with this level of pain.
> 
> 2. I wanted to talk to you about why she may have chosen to blow up her world and leave. You don't know me, but let me summarize my story: I was married to a very abusive man who cheated on me numerous times, but I was too hopeful to see it. Eventually I caught him red-handed and he did not choose to stop, so we divorced. Isn't it amazing that I can summarize it like that as if it were just statements?  I was married a second time to the love of my life, and we lost a child. This sent both of us into a tailspin--I needed comfort and turned TOWARD...he needed quiet time and WITHDREW...and I mistook that as no longer loving me. I had an online affair, and my Dear Hubby discovered it. It is the deepest regret of my life. BUT...through this we actually were able to reconcile, so when I talk to you about why...and what it would look like...I am speaking from experience and it's important for you to know that.
> 
> Speaking as a recovered wanderer, I suspect I know why she chose to blow up her world--it has very literally NOTHING to do with you. My Dear Hubby was a man among men, a gentle, smart, kind, funny man--so clearly my unfaithfulness was not about him AT ALL. Not one iota. There is something about her, within her, that is broken. Now, I'm not saying she's mentally ill necessarily, but rather there is some need in her that is unhealthy mentally, or some voice within her that is not mature, or some part of her that very muchso NEEDS to grow up and be wise and learn to be a better woman and wife...and her affair is a reflection of that part of her. I'll give you an example from what I've read of your posts. I guess that the sorrow of not being able to have children or something related to that--how she deals with sorrow, or how she deals with grief--is not healthy. She copes using techniques that are self-harming. Now as a child those techniques may have sort of worked to get through things, but as an adult, it's no longer good. It sounds like she may have needed to feel like she was still attractive...or maybe she needed to feel alive and like she wasn't a shriveled up, useless prune as a woman. I get that. People aren't always wise AND sometimes you don't know you have a harmful coping technique until you trip on it by finding out bad news!
> 
> But the reason she looked elsewhere was not a fault in YOU...it was a faultline in her that broke apart when some earthquake hit. She had something inside her that said "I can't have children, therefore I'm no good as a woman" and to prove to herself she was good as a woman she went off and attracted someone. Now this may not be too much comfort to you, as you still saw her value as a woman. But the point here is that it really was not you. Okay...I get it...there may have been weak points or things you could have done better We could all do better, and I hope you'll work on yourself to be better. Good job! But as you think of this, consider what I'm saying. She had a landmine inside her that got tripped...we're not sure what tripped it, but I bet you have a good idea...and she blew up your world because of her issues.
> 
> 3. This actually leads me to my final thought: what it would be like if reconciliation was really a possibility. When I had my affair, and my Dear Hubby found out, he did something for me that dropped the scales from my eyes. He wrote straight to the OM and said, "She is my wife and I love her. If you think you can just take her without a fight, you have another thing coming. I will fight for her." He also packed my bags, took me to the train station, and said, "If you want to go, I'm not going to stop you, but know this: if you do go, you will NOT be coming back. I won't share you. You can make up your mind, but if you choose me, I expect you to honor your commitments 100%."
> 
> Now @donesies, it takes real freaking courage to do something like that. He was crying and I knew he felt scared to death I'd choose to go. But in that moment I could see all the pain I'd created and all the damage I'd done and that he was a man of honor and respect. It hit me like a ton of BRICKS. I'm not saying that this is what will "make her want to reconcile" but what I AM saying is that in order for there to even be a possibility of reconciliation, there would have to be a gigantic recognition of personal responsibility on her part. She would have to see, of her own accord, that HER ACTIONS did all this damage to the people she supposedly loved! She'd have to not only regret that she got caught and stands to lose, but also sincerely repent in her heart of being that kind of person! She'd have to look at you and see a man of honor and respect! She'd have to see in you a man who has a firm boundary of expecting 100% FAITHFULNESS and nothing less. She'd have to be humble enough to admit to herself that no matter what you may or may not have done, SHE was wrong. She'd have to care enough about you to care that she had hurt you, and want to do whatever was necessary to heal the wounds she had inflicted. She'd have to willingly learn and practice being open and honest instead of hiding and projecting an image--and man that can be so scary to let someone see the real you! She'd have to voluntarily accept eating some humble pie and yeah that can't last forever but it reasonably should last a while! She'd have to be able to look at herself in the mirror, wince, and then keep looking and keep working to change.
> 
> If you saw THAT kind of behavior, then I'd say that reconciliation MIGHT be possible because she would be thinking correctly. Even then, one of the biggest and hardest concepts to really accept is that the rightful result of having an affair is that the old marriage IS DEAD BY MY HAND. In other words, my Dear Hubby had literally every legal and moral right to say he couldn't do it and walk away...and it wasn't his actions that killed it but mine. I did it. I caused the death. The reason my Dear Hubby is ... was ... my hero is that he had the cajones to stay and rebuild. What courage is that! So my point here is that even IF she realized and thought all that I've written above...you still may not be able to recover! That's completely viable, because the result of adultery is death.
> 
> I would say, that since you are not seeing the kind of behavior I wrote above, that at this time reconciliation really is not even conceivable. There is nothing to rebuild upon. Infidelity is like a bomb, and everything that was built was leveled. You really cannot start taking the little pieces of rubble and start plastering them back together to remake it--you have to sweep away that rubble and start from nothing and build something new. And you really cannot build something new if the people are not new. At this time I don't see any signs of newness from her, and I know that deeply sorrows you, but there it is: the truth.
> 
> That does not mean, however, that YOU can't recover and become new. So don't lose hope. Take your time and think about things, and keep listening, and we'll do our best to guide you through this path. It's horribly hard, isn't it?


Very well said.


----------



## bff

@donesies

I just read your whole thread. There are a lot of similarities in our situations:

- My XW was having a long-time affair with another guy (who is also a low-earner, dishonest, letch) (I'm a relatively high earner, but not relative to you)
- We were married almost 10 years (no-fault state), tried tons of IVF, egg donors, etc. and were in the middle of adoption proceedings
- When I discovered it and confronted her, she didn't really fight for "us"
- She took her "settlement" and bought herself a nice 911 convertible

I went through the EXACT SAME EMOTIONS I see you describing here. It hurt that she didn't fight for "us". Even after all she had done that hurt me (the affair), I was still unsure that I made the right decision for a while. I still loved her. I was constantly curious what she (and he) were doing. I struggled long and hard as to how much to "blow up" their world (In the end I didn't, really). I had a lot of introspection to do, as it became clear (thanks TAM!!) that my marriage was dead long before the affair came to light. I was running PR's in the middle of all this, too. I immediately got into the dating scene (too soon) and was lost for a while.

I'll skip the year of the "in between" time and jump to the happy ending. I'm married to an AMAZING woman who is a true partner with me. We have an incredible 3 year old son, and we're working on a second.

Some unsolicited advice:

- Take the high road at EVERY juncture, you will NEVER regret it. She doesn't deserve your help, your time or your respect, but as many have said, her affair had pretty much nothing to do with you. So, and this seems crazy to say at this point, but don't hate her for what she did. The quote that got me to where I am today after what happened to me was this: "Holding onto anger is like taking poison and expecting it to kill someone else."

- I didn't see any update on how counselor sessions were going, but you definitely need a sounding-board that you can trust and will keep you from making emotion-filled decisions you might later regret. A saw a counselor for just a few sessions - it didn't do all that much for me. But, I had a really close friend who was supportive but also gave me tough-love when I needed to hear it. Never let me fall into becoming a victim.

- You're not going to want to hear this, but brace yourself that your dissolution agreement is going to get renegotiated by the judge. At least in California, the judges have an INCREDIBLE amount of discretion, and the reason the papers (and perhaps you) have to go in front of the judge is to make sure that both parties really do agree to the terms of the settlement. If she turns on the water works at that point and says that she felt pressured in some way and claims that you misled her on what she was actually entitled to by law, well, it all gets opened back up. I'm not an attorney, but I can tell you that during the 4.5 years of my alimony, it got "re-negotiated" several times as circumstances changed. It's not really over until it is over, and that's not the date of the divorce, it's the end date on the agreement, which is the end of alimony.

If you ever need someone to talk to and don't know where to turn, PM me. Our situations are eerily similar and I'd love to see you ride through the rough parts smoothly and quickly. If you do, you'll get a second chance at everything you ever wanted, but with even more wisdom and experience under your belt. Trust me, it can be incredible.

bff


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## VladDracul

Donesies, at a minimum you need to let the divorce go through. If at some point subsequent to that, y'all decide to get back together it wipes the slate clean for both you and her. Like Broken_in_Brooklyn said however, she gone. Based on what you told us about her actions since both prior to and subsequent the confrontation, it really hard to reach any other conclusion. I said before, when a woman loses romantic interest, it never comes back to full vigor and seldom returns sufficiently to maintain a relationship. For a woman to reject the advances of other men they have to think you hung the moon.
At this point, it up to her to seek any kind of meaningful reconciliation and your prerogative to accept or reject it. If you coax her into reconciliation, you're likely setting yourself up for more heartbreak down the road. You know what they say about if you love something release it.


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## Tatsuhiko

VladDracul said:


> If at some point subsequent to that, y'all decide to get back together it wipes the slate clean for both you and her.


Yes, and at that point the proof of her emotional commitment will be a prenuptial agreement that heavily favors Donsies. Donsies can even nullify it once she's demonstrated her willingness to sign it.


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## Cromer

@bff Yours was the first thread binge that I experienced on TAM. You had already gotten your happy ending, and I was amazed at the transition you made despite it all. The what? Six years of cheating in your house with your good friend, what you went through to find out, people knowing but never telling you, her ambivalence, the repeated attempts to soak you for more cash, etc. My heart ached through it all, but I didn't have to live it with you. I got to see the happy ending and I am so happy for you and your family. Even though our circumstances were different, your story helped me to realize that I could move on from a woman I thought I'd loved for many years. Of course, I later found out that I was a victim as well.

@donesies Again, although our circumstances are different, forget about that lying, cheating, mess of a woman who fired you. Yup, easier said than done, I know. I didn't have to go through the pain of detachment after learning about the betrayals, I had already detached. But I was still scared to let go. The pain of the familiar vs. the off chance to be happy in the unknown, I'd guess. Now, I'm asking myself why the Hell did I take so long. It doesn't help that every woman I see is labeled as "potential cheater" in my mind, I'm not sure that will ever go away completely. But I'm dating someone now who was herself betrayed, and I am as "confident" as I will ever be that she would leave a relationship before cheating. As people told me when I was getting ready to retire from the military, "it's good on the outside." I had to live it to see it. You will come to see it too.


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## VladDracul

Tatsuhiko said:


> Yes, and at that point the proof of her emotional commitment will be a prenuptial agreement that heavily favors Donsies. Donsies can even nullify it once she's demonstrated her willingness to sign it.


Yep, its my advise that she would need to show some type confirmation that she's not merely wanting to return to a cushy lifestyle of a doctor's wife. But it doesn't look like her returning to the fold is in the cards.


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## skerzoid

All, Where do you see any sign of Mrs. Donesies returning to the fold? One piece of evidence? Is it possible that we give Doc false hope that she will return, that she will be remorseful, that he can return to his old relationship with her? Is she not broadcasting to the community that she is Donesies also? 

I would think that taking off her ring, changing her name, spending the settlement money, disparaging him to her friends and associates, and renting an apartment in which she can carry on her relationship with Fatboy, would be pretty clear signs that she is done. The good Doctor should be reassured that he has done the right thing from the very beginning. 

He should be reinforced in his strength, and encouraged to continue with no contact so that healing can begin in earnest. The woman he was married to is no longer among the living. There is an evil doppelgänger that has replaced her. A sad reality but a reality none the less.


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## sandcastle

skerzoid said:


> The woman he was married to is no longer among the living. There is an evil doppelgänger that has replaced her. A sad reality but a reality none the less.



Ok!


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## manfromlamancha

donesies said:


> Yes


Did she tell you she slept with him because you asked or was it offered in some other context. It is a pretty callous thing to do if she told you without you asking her. Also did you record this or do you have any other proof that you can show his wife ?


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bff said:


> @donesies
> 
> I just read your whole thread. There are a lot of similarities in our situations:
> 
> - My XW was having a long-time affair with another guy (who is also a low-earner, dishonest, letch) (I'm a relatively high earner, but not relative to you)
> - We were married almost 10 years (no-fault state), tried tons of IVF, egg donors, etc. and were in the middle of adoption proceedings
> - When I discovered it and confronted her, she didn't really fight for "us"
> - She took her "settlement" and bought herself a nice 911 convertible
> 
> I went through the EXACT SAME EMOTIONS I see you describing here. It hurt that she didn't fight for "us". Even after all she had done that hurt me (the affair), I was still unsure that I made the right decision for a while. I still loved her. I was constantly curious what she (and he) were doing. I struggled long and hard as to how much to "blow up" their world (In the end I didn't, really). I had a lot of introspection to do, as it became clear (thanks TAM!!) that my marriage was dead long before the affair came to light. I was running PR's in the middle of all this, too. I immediately got into the dating scene (too soon) and was lost for a while.
> 
> I'll skip the year of the "in between" time and jump to the happy ending. I'm married to an AMAZING woman who is a true partner with me. We have an incredible 3 year old son, and we're working on a second.
> 
> Some unsolicited advice:
> 
> - Take the high road at EVERY juncture, you will NEVER regret it. She doesn't deserve your help, your time or your respect, but as many have said, her affair had pretty much nothing to do with you. So, and this seems crazy to say at this point, but don't hate her for what she did. The quote that got me to where I am today after what happened to me was this: "Holding onto anger is like taking poison and expecting it to kill someone else."
> 
> - I didn't see any update on how counselor sessions were going, but you definitely need a sounding-board that you can trust and will keep you from making emotion-filled decisions you might later regret. A saw a counselor for just a few sessions - it didn't do all that much for me. But, I had a really close friend who was supportive but also gave me tough-love when I needed to hear it. Never let me fall into becoming a victim.
> 
> -* You're not going to want to hear this, but brace yourself that your dissolution agreement is going to get renegotiated by the judge. At least in California, the judges have an INCREDIBLE amount of discretion, and the reason the papers (and perhaps you) have to go in front of the judge is to make sure that both parties really do agree to the terms of the settlement. If she turns on the water works at that point and says that she felt pressured in some way and claims that you misled her on what she was actually entitled to by law, well, it all gets opened back up. I'm not an attorney, but I can tell you that during the 4.5 years of my alimony, it got "re-negotiated" several times as circumstances changed. It's not really over until it is over, and that's not the date of the divorce, it's the end date on the agreement, which is the end of alimony.*
> 
> If you ever need someone to talk to and don't know where to turn, PM me. Our situations are eerily similar and I'd love to see you ride through the rough parts smoothly and quickly. If you do, you'll get a second chance at everything you ever wanted, but with even more wisdom and experience under your belt. Trust me, it can be incredible.
> 
> bff



With respect to bff, her moving, signing a rental agreement, cashing the checks, changing her name and appearing in public without a care in the world pretty much states she has agreed to the settlement so far. BFF's ex was completely shameless. Yours has something to hide, important distiction. While it is true she may petition the court to modify the alimony for the next 3.5 years without real changes in income for either party or she becomes an invalid requiring care her emotions are irrelevant. If contracts were nullified every time someone did not read the fine print or 'were too emotional' the last 500 years of common law, contract law, case law etc would go up in smoke. She needs more than crying to get her signature and post actions regarded as irreverent. As far as 'feeling pressured' the only gun held to her head was her own in that she does not want you to expose that she was cheating with a married troll. I doubt she wants that revealed in open court just yet. Some here will chime in 'that is irrelevant in a no fault state'. Yes for the grounds of divorce, but not for alimony adjustments or her trying to appeal the equity split she already accepted. Even a fair divorce lawyer will get the words 'married affair partner named so and so ' entered in the court record. A good one will have the OM served. Maybe even the OM's wife. A good attorney will finds ways to do that without being so afoul of the law that they risk sanctions from the judge.

One more thing, she cannot claim you 'mislead' her. She is an adult with full facilities. Not a child nor a special needs person. As a husband you are not responsible for her not getting a lawyer to look over a divorce agreement after she proclaims she is in love with a married man.


----------



## bff

@Broken_in_Brooklyn Do you think the fact that she hadn't yet consulted an attorney before she signed it makes a difference? Also, I didn't see that she cashed the "big" check, just the first month alimony. Did she cash the common property settlement check? Not arguing, just asking. Also, she can claim anything she wants in court. The judge doesn't have to believe her, but that doesn't mean that she can't claim that donesies somehow told her or implied "sign this or else" or "if you don't sign this, then I'll make sure you don't get anything." Poor part-time worker STBXW doesn't know anything about contracts, and big-bad overbearing intimidating doctor made her sign it!! 

My experience, and I know that I have very few data points, is that a divorce settlement isn't the same as a regular business contract. The judge has extremely wide latitude to either validate it (if it was a "done deal" then why is there a trial date at all?) or change it if one party is balking. YMMV


----------



## VFW

Don't worry about getting over her right now, it is going to take time. You will have days you hate her and days you will miss her, you just have to ride this rollercoaster out. The good thing is you have a busy schedule and things keep you occupied, so it won't be as bad as some folks. Once this is all behind you, it will start to ease. In time something good will come along.


----------



## ABHale

bff said:


> @Broken_in_Brooklyn Do you think the fact that she hadn't yet consulted an attorney before she signed it makes a difference? Also, I didn't see that she cashed the "big" check, just the first month alimony. Did she cash the common property settlement check? Not arguing, just asking. Also, she can claim anything she wants in court. The judge doesn't have to believe her, but that doesn't mean that she can't claim that donesies somehow told her or implied "sign this or else" or "if you don't sign this, then I'll make sure you don't get anything." Poor part-time worker STBXW doesn't know anything about contracts, and big-bad overbearing intimidating doctor made her sign it!!
> 
> My experience, and I know that I have very few data points, is that a divorce settlement isn't the same as a regular business contract. The judge has extremely wide latitude to either validate it (if it was a "done deal" then why is there a trial date at all?) or change it if one party is balking. YMMV


I believe she did cash the larger check as well. That is how she bought her new car.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bff said:


> @Broken_in_Brooklyn Do you think the fact that she hadn't yet consulted an attorney before she signed it makes a difference? Also, I didn't see that she cashed the "big" check, just the first month alimony. Did she cash the common property settlement check? Not arguing, just asking. Also, she can claim anything she wants in court. The judge doesn't have to believe her, but that doesn't mean that she can't claim that donesies somehow told her or implied "sign this or else" or "if you don't sign this, then I'll make sure you don't get anything." Poor part-time worker STBXW doesn't know anything about contracts, and big-bad overbearing intimidating doctor made her sign it!!
> 
> My experience, and I know that I have very few data points, is that a divorce settlement isn't the same as a regular business contract. The judge has extremely wide latitude to either validate it (if it was a "done deal" then why is there a trial date at all?) or change it if one party is balking. YMMV


 @bff, The claim "I did not consult an attorney" before I signed is basically a non starter unless you are a minor or feeble minded like dementia. Even with dementia the other side only has to show you were lucid for one nanosecond when you signed. Basically being 'stupid' when I signed is a really hard obstacle to overcome. 

The alimony check cashed first followed by the equity check which took longer because of the amount.

True, she can claim anything but without hard facts and case law behind her claim is meaningless. Judges do have wide latitude in 'fair and equitable' and 'my needs have changed' but they also do not like being overturned by appellate courts. She needs to present a fact like "he hid money from me which I just discovered' or ' i now have a disability which stops me from working'. Something the judge can hook onto that shows up on paper as a fact and has case law behind it. BTW, her refusing to work full time because she could not be bothered will be brought up. She can claim 'coercion' but her moving out, cashing the checks, buying a car, changing her name belies otherwise. She needs to show she literally had a gun to her head. Again, the only gun to her head is her own, she signed because she was embarrassed the truth would be exposed. 

As far as why the decree is not signed by the judge immediately: Yes, allow people to contest the terms before the judge finalizes but in doing so you need to present facts. "I am stupid' and a river of tears are not going to cut it. Unless the offer was so low it 'shocks the conscious'. Donesies gave her a fair offer. A low one but fair one. She was free not to sign and contest it. She choose otherwise. To reopen she needs to overcome that.


----------



## donesies

manfromlamancha said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes
> 
> 
> 
> Did she tell you she slept with him because you asked or was it offered in some other context. It is a pretty callous thing to do if she told you without you asking her. Also did you record this or do you have any other proof that you can show his wife ?
Click to expand...

Told me when I confronted her with the journal. I have the journal.


----------



## MyRevelation

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> Here is a cutting from Walloped's thread. He is two years out from D-Day but his story is an epic on survivinginfidelity.com . Here is a cutting of him exposing to the OBS. Its worth a read. Mrs. Walloped is on SI also. She just had a total mental breakdown after reading her husband's thread for the first time.
> This is worth a read:
> 
> My body was sore Sunday morning from running the day before, but I did it again. It felt good. Really good. Cam back and showered. My wife was still in the bedroom. I spent the morning on the computer and her phone, pouring over her texts and emails. She hadn’t deleted anything. My wife is street smart, like I said, but she’s also somewhat naïve. Don’t get me wrong. She’s very smart, but she believes that everyone is inherently good and that everyone had good intentions. I only believe that about her. Or I did. To me, there is evil. Bad people who do bad things. One of the hardest things for me is reconciling that concept with my wife. Does this make her bad? Evil? Or is she inherently a good person who did a horrible thing? I don’t have a good answer just yet and it kills me that I don’t. Anyway, she is naïve though and she never deleted anything. She lied and cheated and hid and sneaked, but she didn’t delete anything. So it was all there for me. The emails and texts. The “I can’t wait to see you’s” and the “love you’s,” the “miss you’s,” the “yesterday was special,” “can’t wait until Thursday” and on and on. There were no sexually explicit emails or texts, thank God. I went back and there were emails from her in March and April that were a combination of minor gripes about me, praising him, and flirting. One liners. Good comebacks, etc. I didn’t read them all. I did forward them all to my email and phone.
> She came down somewhere in the middle, saw was I was doing, and then left the room. We didn’t talk much that morning. She made a late lunch. I made my own. Petty of me, I know, but I couldn’t help myself.
> 
> And then came the kicker. I was on the computer and decided to do a Google search on POS. By the way, I know everyone here uses the term AP. I much prefer POS, okay? Anyway, one of you put this thought into my head so I followed up on it. Found him and his apartment address on the Upper West Side. Did a White Pages search. Found him there too. Did a search for him in New Jersey. Nothing. Connecticut? Bingo. Has a house. You know how White Pages has that section of people they may know? Woman’s name. Okay, he’s divorced. Makes sense. But I had a hunch, so I called my wife over and gave her one of the handsets to listen in and I called the house (yay me!). Woman answered. I asked if this was Mrs. X. She said yes! I asked if she was married to POS. She got suspicious and asked who I was and what this was about. Well, I hemmed and hawed, and then she said, “Don’t tell me. Who’s the lying sack of s**t f***ing now?” I almost dropped the phone. So…I told her. I told her, with my wife standing next to me listening in that my wife had an affair with POS and that I just found out about on Monday. And that he had said he was divorced. Now, I’ve heard swearing in my time. We all have. But this lady would make sailors blush. Turns out that they’re married but separated. She’s in the house in Connecticut (wealthy neighborhood – think New Canaan if you’re from the Northeast), he’s at their apartment he used for work during the week in Manhattan. Are supposed to be reconciling. Doing marriage counseling, if you can f***ing believe that! Has two boys. One a teenager. One in college. This was the third time he’s cheated that she knows about. I apologized and said I was sorry to be there bearer of such news. I wish I didn’t have to make this call. She was gracious, and obviously in pain. She apologized for her husband and said she was sorry that I had to deal with the fallout from the prick. Her words. My wife had a look of horror on her face the entire time and the tears were just flowing out of her. She gestured that she wanted to say something, so I nodded to her. She told his wife that she was so sorry and that she didn’t know he was married. You know what she answered back? “But you were, you f***ing *****.” My wife just started screaming, I’m sorry! I’m sorry! I’m so sorry! Again and again. I apologized again to Mrs. X, but said for her sake and her boy’s sake, it was important to know what he was doing. She understood. I felt really bad for her. Talk about empathy. I got off the line. My wife was rocking back and forth, hugging her knees, saying she was sorry over and over again. Like a mantra. I’m not proud of myself for this, but I asked her if it was worth it? Was throwing her life away and destroying our marriage, our life, our future, my respect, the kids respect, her self respect, worth it for a f***ing scumbag POS who would f***k a married woman while going to marriage counseling with his wife! She didn’t answer me, just kept crying, and rocking, and saying I’m sorry. Again, I’m not proud, but I took great pleasure in her pain. And then I told her that I hope it was worth it because when she’s alone and lost everything and no one respects her, she at least would be able to have her memories of f***ing Prince Charming to keep her warm at night. I then walked away. I know. Not my best moment. But I had so much rage in me. At him. At her. At my life. I was just so angry. I scared me. I wanted to kill him. But he wasn’t there. She was. And I wanted to strangle her. God help me, I wanted to pound her into sand. So I left the house. I didn’t drive. Thank God. I just walked. And walked. For I don’t know how long.
> 
> Later last night I was sitting in the den. The mind movies were going. I couldn’t stop them. I just kept thinking about everything. About them. About my life. I was so scared. Everything I worked for. In the toilet. She came into the room. I didn’t acknowledge her. She didn’t touch me this time. She just grabbed me and hugged me. I tried to get up but she wouldn’t let me. I tried to move her arms. She just held on. She kept saying I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry I did this. I’m so sorry I hurt you. I said, “I hate you.” She said, “I know. I hate me too.” I said I don’t care. She said, “I know. I’m so sorry. I love you. I love you. I love you. I’m sorry” Alternating between the two. I said Bull****. She just kept saying it. I was crying. She was crying. We sat there like that for a very long time.
> 
> So that’s where we are today. I’m still in the guest room. I’m okay with that. I have the STD test tomorrow and tomorrow night I am meeting with the attorney my brother recommended. He represented his SIL and my brother said he was very good. I trust him. I am seriously considering the VAR and polygraph. I hear you all about that piece of it and while I don’t like it, I’ll do it if I think it will help. I have absolutely no clue what I’m going to do regarding my marriage. I don’t want to at this point. I’m just trying to survive. I just don’t know if I can get over this regardless of how I feel about her or her me. Maybe it’s still too raw. I don’t know. Whatever. I have time for that. I did discuss counseling with her. Not together. Individually. She agreed. I’m researching therapists. I suggested she ask her sister for advice on that front. This week will be telling. She’s going for her STD test on Wednesday. I also warned her that breaking No Contact would utterly destroy us. She understood and actually had a few choice words about POS that makes me think (or hope?) that she’ll stick to it. We’ll see.


Sorry, but this is a bad example for donesies. While Walloped talked a good game in the beginning as something less than R has been going on for the last 2.5 years, he is getting weaker and weaker in defending his boundaries. His WW was never made to get a job, or really do any of the heavy lifting, and as little as 6 months ago, Walloped was still talking D ... now he's completely folded after WW pulled her stunt, and he's now accepting a good portion of the blame.

donesies has already filed and got a very good settlement agreement signed ...he's already light years ahead of Walloped and will soon be living the good life, while Walloped wallows in perpetual limbo.


----------



## oldtruck

A WS or a BS signing a legal document prepared by their spouse's lawyer
can cause, may cause, that agreement to be set aside and declared
invalid due to they did not have legal advice before they signed. Reason
is that the lawyer's interests are only to protect the person that hired
and paid them.

This document was not prepared by the WW's lawyer.
No independent legal advice was provided for the WW.

This settlement is not a slam dunk for the BH. The potential
to have it overturned is there.

Potential means that there is no guarantee for the WW or the
BH if this agreement will stand or be broken.


----------



## skerzoid

MyRevelation said:


> Sorry, but this is a bad example for donesies. While Walloped talked a good game in the beginning as something less than R has been going on for the last 2.5 years, he is getting weaker and weaker in defending his boundaries. His WW was never made to get a job, or really do any of the heavy lifting, and as little as 6 months ago, Walloped was still talking D ... now he's completely folded after WW pulled her stunt, and he's now accepting a good portion of the blame.
> 
> donesies has already filed and got a very good settlement agreement signed ...he's already light years ahead of Walloped and will soon be living the good life, while Walloped wallows in perpetual limbo.


Whether or not Walloped comes out as well as the Doc, Walloped has a close knit family of 5 children, a couple of young boys still at home to consider, & he may well have been able to do as well as the Doc under different circumstances. His wife is a little more aware of her rights than Mrs. donesies seems to be, hence the acceptance of the ridiculously low ball settlement. 

An upper class Jewish couple in Manhattan is a little different situation than Doc's. Another difference in Walloped's situation is that the OM was an upper class Realestate magnate in Connecticut, rather than a lower class Fatboy with three little kids. In any event I am not so judgemental as you seem to be. Part of their problem was a miscarriage of twin boys. I suppose that may have been a "stunt" but I don't think so. Why don't you write Walloped on SI and let him know how poorly he is doing?

This was an attempt to show the Doc how Walloped handled the Organization/Club as far as putting a bee in their bonnet. If the good Doctor wishes to do something like this in response to being trashed by his WW to the members of the club, it behooves him to look at some examples. 

The example did work, as the OM was kicked out of the organization. 

Now if Donesies is reluctant to do this himself, his lawyer might need to do something strong in order to get her to "Cease & Desist". If Donesies wants to sit back and let her shoot her mouth off, its up to him. Once again Donesies, do as your lawyer advises.


----------



## MyRevelation

skerzoid said:


> Whether or not Walloped comes out as well as the Doc, Walloped has a close knit family of 5 children, a couple of young boys still at home to consider, & he may well have been able to do as well as the Doc under different circumstances. His wife is a little more aware of her rights than Mrs. donesies seems to be, hence the acceptance of the ridiculously low ball settlement. An upper class Jewish couple in Manhattan is a little different situation than Doc's. Another difference in Walloped's situation is that the OM was an upper class Realestate magnate in ConnecticutIn rather than a lower class Fatboy with three little kids. In any event I am not so judgemental as you seem to be. Part of their problem was a miscarriage of twin boys. I suppose that may have been a "stunt" but I don't think so. Why don't you write Walloped on SI and let him know how poorly he is doing?
> 
> This was an attempt to show the Doc how Walloped handled the Organization/Club as far as putting a bee in their bonnet. If the good Doctor wishes to do something like this in response to being trashed by his WW to the members of the club, it behooves him to look at some examples.
> 
> The example did work, as the OM was kicked out of the organization.
> 
> Now if Donesies is reluctant to do this himself, his lawyer might need to do something strong in order to get her to "Cease & Desist". If Donesies wants to sit back and let her shoot her mouth off, its up to him. Once again Donesies, do as your lawyer advises.


Regarding your first paragraph ... if there are so many differences in their situations, why did you reference Walloped as a model for donesies to follow, and as for writing Walloped on SI, that's not going to happen as I've been banned by SI years ago for advocating against their weak, pro R biases. In addition, Walloped came to TAM a couple of weeks ago and we had that exchange of ideas here, and quite frankly, Walloped turned out to be a defensive ass when confronted on his weaknesses, rather than coddled and fed ego kibbles like he is at SI.

Also, if you really wanted to show donesies how Walloped addressed the issue of the club/organization, I would think you would have quoted THAT posting, rather than the one you did. As I said, Walloped did a lot of good things early, but then IMHO, caved when it came time to take definitive action and now Mrs. Walloped has regained all control in their relationship, including reclaiming "victim" status and Walloped is now taking pride in being able to acquire a taste for **** sandwiches.


----------



## skerzoid

MyRevelation:

I'm sorry you feel that way.


----------



## bandit.45

MyRevelation said:


> Sorry, but this is a bad example for donesies. While Walloped talked a good game in the beginning as something less than R has been going on for the last 2.5 years, he is getting weaker and weaker in defending his boundaries. His WW was never made to get a job, or really do any of the heavy lifting, and as little as 6 months ago, Walloped was still talking D ... now he's completely folded after WW pulled her stunt, and he's now accepting a good portion of the blame.
> 
> donesies has already filed and got a very good settlement agreement signed ...he's already light years ahead of Walloped and will soon be living the good life, while Walloped wallows in perpetual limbo.


Agreed. 

Walloped is the last poster anyone should be modeling themselves after.


----------



## Fused

MyRevelation said:


> Sorry, but this is a bad example for donesies. While Walloped talked a good game in the beginning as something less than R has been going on for the last 2.5 years, he is getting weaker and weaker in defending his boundaries. His WW was never made to get a job, or really do any of the heavy lifting, and as little as 6 months ago, Walloped was still talking D ... now he's completely folded after WW pulled her stunt, and he's now accepting a good portion of the blame.
> 
> donesies has already filed and got a very good settlement agreement signed ...he's already light years ahead of Walloped and will soon be living the good life, while Walloped wallows in perpetual limbo.


So, I'm not the only one who noticed that I see.


----------



## donesies

A couple things have happened in the last few days, so I want to catch you up:

1. I had a friend (reliable source) tell me that my STBX is seeing someone else now (not the OM). Not sure if that's in addition to OM or they are finished. This new guy is single, good looking, and fit (at least on my level in that regard). He has a stable job making maybe $50k per year. Anyway - didn't see that coming and I have no idea what to make of it. I'm a little lost and hurt about it honestly.

2. I received the notorized quit claim deed on the house.

3. I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.


----------



## bandit.45

Yeah it sucks man. Expect your exWW to start acting like she's in college again. Women like her all do this. They go through a period of increased promiscuity where they want to screw every man they meet. She's out of control, and it is just another indication of how messed up she is and how low her self-esteem is. Sex is her money with which she buys attention from men. Attention, even if it is fake attention, is validation to her. 

She will continue this pattern until she gets some help. 

Do not let this weigh on your self esteem. You are not lacking in any way.


----------



## Malaise

donesies said:


> A couple things have happened in the last few days, so I want to catch you up:
> 
> 1. I had a friend (reliable source) tell me that my STBX is seeing someone else now (not the OM). Not sure if that's in addition to OM or they are finished. This new guy is single, good looking, and fit (at least on my level in that regard). He has a stable job making maybe $50k per year. Anyway - didn't see that coming and I have no idea what to make of it. I'm a little lost and hurt about it honestly.
> 
> 2. I received the notorized quit claim deed on the house.
> 
> 3.* I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.*


Doc, looks are gravy. Find someone who's faithful


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> A couple things have happened in the last few days, so I want to catch you up:
> 
> 1. I had a friend (reliable source) tell me that my STBX is seeing someone else now (not the OM). Not sure if that's in addition to OM or they are finished. This new guy is single, good looking, and fit (at least on my level in that regard). He has a stable job making maybe $50k per year. Anyway - didn't see that coming and I have no idea what to make of it. I'm a little lost and hurt about it honestly.
> 
> 2. I received the notorized quit claim deed on the house.
> 
> 3. I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.


Yeah, you're going to see a lot of men come and go, a lot of crazy behavior, and eventually you will grow indifferent. Part of the game.

Oh, and forget the women for a while. Seriously. They ain't going anywhere. They will just hinder your progress going forward. Just trust me on this one.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies;19231281She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness said:


> Damn Doc, you're bird dogging the hell out of this girl.


----------



## Tobyboy

Bandit’s right! Won’t last, guys will figure out how disorder your ex is and ghost her. Her friends are probably distancing from her about now also.


----------



## Cynthia

Tobyboy said:


> Bandit’s right! Won’t last, guys will figure out how disorder your ex is and ghost her. Her friends are probably distancing from her about now also.


Not necessarily. People generally show what they want you to see and it takes a while (sometimes years) before you really see what that person is like.


----------



## bandit.45

CynthiaDe said:


> Not necessarily. People generally show what they want you to see and it takes a while (sometimes years) before you really see what that person is like.


Agreed. Birds of a feather. She will have a cheering squad for a long time, until one by one she burns them or they burn her.


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> A couple things have happened in the last few days, so I want to catch you up:
> 
> 1. I had a friend (reliable source) tell me that my STBX is seeing someone else now (not the OM). Not sure if that's in addition to OM or they are finished. This new guy is single, good looking, and fit (at least on my level in that regard). He has a stable job making maybe $50k per year. Anyway - didn't see that coming and I have no idea what to make of it. I'm a little lost and hurt about it honestly.
> 
> 2. I received the notorized quit claim deed on the house.
> 
> 3. I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.


Don't be surprised if she goes thru several guys/relationships in the next few months. She will love the attention and excitement that new guys bring and she could also want to upgrade from a financial standpoint. She had a good lifestyle and will want creature comforts again. 

Whether she got dumped or dumped guy #1 her ego won't let her come back to you.


----------



## MyRevelation

skerzoid said:


> MyRevelation:
> 
> I'm sorry you feel that way.


Don't feel sorry for me ... I'm not the one that agreed to R with an unrepentant, entitled cheater, who gave a lot more of herself to OM, than she ever has to Walloped. I'm not the one that chose to R with my "one and only" ... although he is no longer her "one and only" ... and I'm not the one who R'd with a WW that said she would never do the same if the roles were reversed and now hates himself for doing so. 

donesies is battling getting used to the idea that he fell in love with a woman that he really never knew ... at lot of us went through that, but he is getting himself out of LIMBO. In addition to the settlement, he now has the quitclaim deed to his house from WW, which should put any further talk of her being able to void the agreement to rest, and he has had a date. Good for him ... attention from the opposite sex, which will lead to some hot, sweaty sex, with screaming orgasms is probably just what the Dr. ordered for his bruised self esteem ... and I hope he writes himself that prescription with multiple refills.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> A couple things have happened in the last few days, so I want to catch you up:
> 
> 1. I had a friend (reliable source) tell me that my STBX is seeing someone else now (not the OM). Not sure if that's in addition to OM or they are finished. This new guy is single, good looking, and fit (at least on my level in that regard). He has a stable job making maybe $50k per year. Anyway - didn't see that coming and I have no idea what to make of it. I'm a little lost and hurt about it honestly.
> 
> 2. I received the notorized quit claim deed on the house.
> 
> 3. I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.


Pray that they are both stupid enough to get marred. Gets you out of alimony. If they live together as a couple for a certain amount of time and you get a PI to prove in some states that kills alimony too. Your lawyer can advise on that if they have not already done so. 

Like we have said, she moved on a while ago so she feels nothing. She was just too much of a bunch of 4 and 5 letter words to be honest enough to tell you. It hurts now because it is new to you and massively unfair. But believe us, in not too much time from now you will see her for what she is - a shell of a human being who uses people. You will be so great-full she is out of your life you will care less whether she is dead or alive.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> 3. I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.


That is nice to hear. However, stop comparing your STBXW to the new women are will be dating. It does no good. Besides, you ex had a very bad issue. They call in infidelity.


----------



## Cromer

MyRevelation said:


> Good for him ... attention from the opposite sex, which will lead to some hot, sweaty sex, with screaming orgasms is probably just what the Dr. ordered for his bruised self esteem ... and I hope he writes himself that prescription with multiple refills.


It's working for me.


----------



## manfromlamancha

At SI, I got "excluded" from the Wayward Wife section and also got a telling off from Walloped for confronting Mrs Walloped on her lies and for warning Walloped that he was being taken for a ride. And a great many posters seemed to think that I was trying to ruin a perfectly good reconciliation.


----------



## Washashore

manfromlamancha said:


> At SI, I got "excluded" from the Wayward Wife section and also got a telling off from Walloped for confronting Mrs Walloped on her lies and for warning Walloped that he was being taken for a ride. And a great many posters seemed to think that I was trying to ruin a perfectly good reconciliation.




Man... I’m sorry. I read your responses to Mrs. Walloped. They were neither helpful, informative, nor in any conceivable way relevant to the their current reconciliation process. 

I get it. You are against reconciliation. She is a wayward that owned her responsibility and has done everything she can. You, and many other TAM regulars, and a few SI regulars like Western, just don’t like that he took her back. You never will. 

Donesie, Keep strong. Make your choices, not anyone else’s. Your WW hasn’t shown any desire to return, you have every right to walk away with your head held high. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t suck and hurt. Stay true to your values. Do what you want and need to do to heal and move forward But continue to get yourself out of infidelity. 

-w






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## skerzoid

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> It seems that you keep reaching out for hope that she will come back to you. This totally understandable. But could this be? :
> 
> 1. From your description of your marriage, she wanted to have your child. She was unable to. This changed the dynamic in her mind. She had failed you.
> 
> 2. She then began (subconsciously) to be open to a relationship with someone she hadn't failed. This man already had children and wouldn't need her to fill that role. She could be with someone that desired her and had no expectations (in her mind).
> 
> 3. She then began to resent you (subconsciously) and she became totally enamored with this new love. This became her new reason for living.
> 
> 4. His main attraction was that he wasn't you. He wasn't this superman that she could never live up to.
> 
> 5. Even if you totally debased yourself, begged her, promised to change, it will not change this new her. She may eventually come to the realization that this relationship will never work, or he may have to make a choice between her and his children, but she will move on.
> 
> *6. In that case, she will look for a new love, but not you. She resents you now and that will probably never change.*
> 
> 7. In any event this may be years down the road. Do you want to wait for that possibility?


This is a repost of an earlier post that I made. It seems very dead on if I do say so myself with the new turn of events.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Washashore said:


> Man... I’m sorry. I read your responses to Mrs. Walloped. They were neither helpful, informative, nor in any conceivable way relevant to the their current reconciliation process.
> 
> I get it. You are against reconciliation. She is a wayward that owned her responsibility and has done everything she can. You, and many other TAM regulars, and a few SI regulars like Western, just don’t like that he took her back. You never will.
> 
> Donesie, Keep strong. Make your choices, not anyone else’s. Your WW hasn’t shown any desire to return, you have every right to walk away with your head held high. That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t suck and hurt. Stay true to your values. Do what you want and need to do to heal and move forward But continue to get yourself out of infidelity.
> 
> -w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dont agree at all but dont want to threadjack here. Mrs Walloped pretended to be sorry when she was caught, and in her drivel in the WW section continually tried to justify her actions which were beyond normal cheating - she did things with the POSOM that she did not do with Walloped and then tried to justify it all. Walloped was and is being taken for a ride. SI is full of WW sympathisers seeing as it was founded by one (who sadly has passed away now).

Donesies, whatever you do - DO NOT FOLLOW Walloped as an example of what to do. His wife is not remorseful (pretends to be) and he has taken her back but is now considering divorce again!


----------



## skerzoid

Walloped Haters:

The cuttings from SI's Walloped that I pasted here were:

1. *How Walloped exposed to the OBS.

2. How Walloped brought pressure on the organization where Mrs. Walloped had met her OM. When he pressured them, they dropped him like a hot potato. 
*
I thought these would be instructive because it showed a BS acting in strength. *He did a very good job in those two instances.* Also, I thought they would be instructive because these were two tactics that donesies seemed to reticent to use. 

Some of you hate any instance of a BS trying to "R". That is fine. But I stand by my postings because of the afore mentioned *two tactics* that donesies could look at. 

*I have not advised donesies to "R" in any way, shape, or form, in fact I have counseled quite the opposite** every time I posted!* But I have advised him to get to the OBS and inform her, and to be willing to use the journal evidence if she continued to defame him. 

*As to informing the OBS, he did do that, and it may have worked.* The reason Mrs. donesies is with a new man may be because she was dumped by Fatboy after his wife found out.

*Walloped and donesies have very little in common. But those two areas could be instructive*. 

MyReflection, you may not have seen that I actually had posted two cuttings, one on putting pressure on the club that Mrs. donesies belongs to, and another cutting on informing the OBS. Yo bragged how you bested Walloped in a debate, here on TAM. What was the name of the thread for that? That would be an interesting read.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Mizzbak said:


> Seriously, done?
> Well, I actually hope that she sees right the way through you. Because you're coming across that shallow. And whoever she is, she deserves better than what you have got to offer right now.
> 
> Based on what you've told us about your wife, I don't respect or like her. But based on what you're showing me about you, I want to give you a (metaphorical) kick in the testicles. When you place greatest value on what someone looks like on the outside, they're going to learn that the inside doesn't really matter to you. Or maybe they were just empty or rotten on the inside all along ... and you just never noticed because you were too blinded by all that shininess. Either way - the point of pain is that we are supposed to let it teach us things. Because otherwise it will have to re-visit us. And the way that you are currently talking about how you evaluate your life choices ... gotta say that I don't see a lot of change happening.


Let's not live in a fairy tale. When people look for a new partner, absent any other signs of compatibility, they always look at physical attractiveness first. If the physical attractiveness is followed by emotional compatibility, then you have the makings of a long-term relationship. I would not have spoken with my wife if she hadn't been cute. This is just the way it works, for almost everyone. At this point donsies found a cute girl. While it's still early and might be a bit early for him to date, it's up to him to see if she's a long-term prospect.


----------



## Fused

manfromlamancha said:


> Dont agree at all but dont want to threadjack here. Mrs Walloped pretended to be sorry when she was caught, and in her drivel in the WW section continually tried to justify her actions which were beyond normal cheating - she did things with the POSOM that she did not do with Walloped and then tried to justify it all. Walloped was and is being taken for a ride. SI is full of WW sympathisers seeing as it was founded by one (who sadly has passed away now).
> 
> Donesies, whatever you do - DO NOT FOLLOW Walloped as an example of what to do. His wife is not remorseful (pretends to be) and he has taken her back but is now considering divorce again!


I'm inclined to agree here. I have a hard time believing you can go from scrubbing yourself raw in the shower after adultery and swearing that it would never happen again to lounging around naked in another mans' apartment after subsequent trysts like she did afterward. Something isn't/wasn't right with her and I wouldn't be surprised if she were continuing on with that affair to this day


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## skerzoid

WTF

Man this is a tough crowd.

I do recall that we are not to attack the OP's here if they seem legitimately searching for help. Donesies has been following our advice as best he can.

He makes a statement describing a girl he has been hanging out with and he gets bashed. 

*I can't see how that is helping with the triage of a freshly wounded BS*. He is struggling with the worst mental pain known to man, and we have to call him names? Give me a break.


----------



## Fused

Agreed! It seems like the Ya-Ya-Sisterhood is waiting to pounce on anything the OP says that they can twist into their victimhood mindset.


----------



## Cynthia

Wanting to date right away is normal. You want to feel better. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. I do hope you have fun and are encouraged by this woman and she is blessed by you as well.


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## lala911

oh, I know the feeling. I found out about my husband on his birthday when his affair partner decided to send him an email right at midnight. My heart wanted to jump out of my chest and I was devastated. I fell into a depression and I have cried more now than I ever have in my adult life. 

It depends now whether or not you and her want to work it out. Can you forgive her? Is she remorseful? My husband made me feel like it was my fault that he did it because I didn't listen to him. He also had a lot more free time than I did. 

At the end, my values don't align with his. He was a jerk and is also menatally ill and he gave me every reason to cheat on him, but I would never commit adultery. 

Im still hurting and we separated. But that was after I caught him having an EM with someone else. I just could not trust him anymore. I want to be with someone that I can trust and someone who is devoted to me as I can be devoted to them. 

You have to get through the suck, and there is no way around it. I cried for weeks.


----------



## Diana7

Jumping in a mere few weeks to dating another woman is a very bad idea. At least wait till you are divorced.
I just don't get how anyone can get over loosing someone they loved so soon, enough to even think of someone else let alone date.


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## Chuck71

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> *Pray that they are both stupid enough to get marred*. Gets you out of alimony. If they live together as a couple for a certain amount of time and you get a PI to prove in some states that kills alimony too. Your lawyer can advise on that if they have not already done so.
> 
> Like we have said, she moved on a while ago so she feels nothing. She was just too much of a bunch of 4 and 5 letter words to be honest enough to tell you. It hurts now because it is new to you and massively unfair. But believe us, in not too much time from now you will see her for what she is - a shell of a human being who uses people. You will be so great-full she is out of your life you will care less whether she is dead or alive.


Can't see her being that much of an imbecile... but .... talk about miracles!


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## Satya

@donesies, a comfort woman doesn't magically take away problems. It may feel that way, but the reality is, your problems are still there behind the curtain.

Deal with the problems first, become a healed and divorced individual, and then seek other women who are in a similar place mentally (whole & healed). Tell yourself in the mirror, "who gives a F what my ex does? Not me." Then BELIEVE that you don't give a F because she fired you from the job of giving an actual F a while ago.

Fun when you're hurting is just that. Fun. It's like bond-o, foam peanuts, or endless bread at the table. Filler. The hurt is still there and you need to address it properly so you can heal.


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## bandit.45

The man is going to do what he’s going to do.


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## donesies

On one hand, several are saying not to date this early. On the other, I’m hearing not to be so shallow and find a girl that’s great on the inside. The latter would be someone I’m interested in dating seriously.

At least one person has said to just go out and have fun and this is just having fun. Some have said this helps. She is a very welcome distraction to this pain.


----------



## Cromer

donesies said:


> On one hand, several are saying not to date this early. On the other, I’m hearing not to be so shallow and find a girl that’s great on the inside. The latter would be someone I’m interested in dating seriously.
> 
> At least one person has said to just go out and have fun and this is just having fun. Some have said this helps. She is a very welcome distraction to this pain.


Just do what feels right for you. If it were up to some of the advice I received, I would've missed out on the best week of my life last week, and instead be in a mountain cave in Asia somewhere chanting with incense burning. Just enjoy it!


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## stro

I think I would do the same in your position.


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## Hoosier

I was in IC during my divorce. (She filed in July, Final on Oct 3rd or so.) I asked about dating and my counselor said "for some folks its ok, not for others, but for you I say go ahead, but be honest about what it is, to yourself and her" Thats my advice to you. But be ready, even if they say they only want to date casualy, they dont mean it............ Just dont get serious for a while..


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## dadstartingover

You can?t trust yourself. Take time to heal. | Dad Starting Over

Don't bring other humans into your world right now. It's not going to end well. It never does.

The big picture: You want to date because it FEELS good. Much like drugs and alcohol, some of us can take a hit and be fine. Others take a hit and need 983 more hits and end up face down in a gutter. You've done the relationship thing. You ended up face down in a gutter. Figure out why. It's not ALL her fault (as many would tell you).


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## SentHereForAReason

OP, about the dating, I look at it from this perspective, at least from my view on my own situation. My wife started an affair back in May and even after a handful of D-Days, hiatuses, when he goes back to his wife and she believes, him ... and now a few months away from an official divorce ...... I looked at this. What do I hold most high when it comes down to everything and what will I be proud of when I look back on this time, the worst times of my entire life. I would want to say, I did everything I could to try and save it (went way too far here). And I would like to think I kept my integrity intact. By doing so, for me that means not doing things, even remotely close to what my shameless/remorseless STBXW is doing. No dating while I'm still officially married means that I can hold my head a bit higher knowing I did what I promised because that's what means the most to me other than my family itself. Walking the walk. Being able to look my kids in the eye without an ounce of shame, being able to look up to God and know that one day the debt that is owed, whether through reward or karma will eventually go my way.

I do know that the pain could probably be masked by finding someone else right now but it's just not worth it. I can wait. I have waited this long, have been tormented this long. What is another few months, a few months where I will still have everyday with my kids, a few months to work on myself and to distance myself from the toxicity as best as possible, while this delusional person still lives with us.


----------



## manfromlamancha

donesies said:


> A couple things have happened in the last few days, so I want to catch you up:
> 
> 1. I had a friend (reliable source) tell me that my STBX is seeing someone else now (not the OM). Not sure if that's in addition to OM or they are finished. This new guy is single, good looking, and fit (at least on my level in that regard). He has a stable job making maybe $50k per year. Anyway - didn't see that coming and I have no idea what to make of it. I'm a little lost and hurt about it honestly.
> 
> 2. I received the notorized quit claim deed on the house.
> 
> 3. I started to hang out with a new girl. She's not on my ex's level in attractiveness, but she's a lot of fun.


Send the new guy snapshots from the journal re the other POSOM! Should be fun! This is going to be her life from now until she learns to behave.


----------



## skerzoid

Cromer said:


> Just do what feels right for you. If it were up to some of the advice I received, I would've missed out on the best week of my life last week, and instead be in a mountain cave in Asia somewhere chanting with incense burning. Just enjoy it!


Donesies:

You, as a Doctor, know about pain killers. You have prescribed them yourself. They are a temporary crutch to get you through the pain. As with any pain killer, you have to be careful that you don't get addicted. 

In fact, you were addicted to Mrs. Donesies. You are going through withdrawal now. Some people here want you to go cold turkey. Others are prescribing Methadone. 

In fact, you will have access to many, many pain killers. As long as you keep her (the girl you're hanging out with) in perspective, and she understands where you are in this, use as needed.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> On one hand, several are saying not to date this early. On the other, I’m hearing not to be so shallow and find a girl that’s great on the inside. The latter would be someone I’m interested in dating seriously.
> 
> At least one person has said to just go out and have fun and this is just having fun. Some have said this helps. She is a very welcome distraction to this pain.


Doc.... there's truth in both sides. When I split with 2nd love (college sweetheart), it hurt like hell.

Let's just say I parked my car overnight in too many different driveways. But the last thing I wanted

to do was what I did after 1st love (high school sweetheart) break-up.... I disappeared from public

for about two months. Call it teenage and early 20s mistakes... I went too far in each direction.

At this point....just about any female would be a distraction. For sake of point... you were hurting 

100%.... her distraction covers (not cures, just treats.... just like pharmaceuticals today) 40%,

so you hurt 60%. Still hurting but a lot less. The 40% at that time is... void... no emotion.

It is human instinct to fill that void with "temporary feelings of love." It's not love... Something like

when my XW went on a (diabetic) sugar diet. I will say the diabetic sausage she (we) ate... looked like

sausage, smelled like sausage... but in no way, tasted like sausage. 

But a distraction right about now would be nice. As long as she is aware of your situation with STBXW.

But don't get to the point where you wish to increase the 40% temp feeling, not only to 75%

but to repel the hurt down to 25%. It's human nature to do this. But it's a band-aid.... the pain

is still there and will be.... when whatever it is with whoever it is, runs its course.

Been there, done that... worked in advertising for them. Yes I was young but.. pain is pain.

Try considering her a "wing woman" who you can do interesting and exciting things with.

Play putt putt golf, catch a baseball game in the nosebleed section and try to guess who

plays on what team, or go to the lake and just..... talk. Talk about your oddball teen years, your

childhood fears, how goofy you acted around your first crush. I'm guessing you probably did not

have many "deep" chats with your STBXW. Who knows.... this gal might be a fit for you

but you can not make an unbiased judgement on this while the pain meter is active.

It's a balancing act.... and a tough one.


----------



## bigfoot

I gotta say, I don't think dating is the best thing right now. You mentioned having someone as a "distraction" right now. That is actually a horrible thing. First, you are objectifying and using someone. Secondly, you are fresh out of a crap storm of betrayal. 

Get to know you again. Heck, fix yourself. That you are bothered by your ex being with someone and judging or ranking him on looks and job and judging your current lady against your ex really does not sound remotely healthy at all.

Honestly, if you are still ranking looks and comparing them, then there is a whole lot of work that needs to be done. Newsflash, they fade. There is always someone better looking. 
A "10" in your area is a "5" somewhere else and now you gotta upgrade. I don't validate that line of thinking, I am just pointing out that is the path that it takes. 50k is meaningless in terms of relationship stability. By that token, only the rich are worth marrying or dating and that sure as hell ain't true.

If you are hurt by your ex getting on with others then you are still tied to her. You are not over her, you are just getting back at her or trying to compete with her, even if she is oblivious to you.

Seriously, take a break from it all, get mentally and emotionally fixed, unclutter your mind from the ex and then get back in the game. Think of it like boxing or mma, no one fights or talks trash between the rounds. They sit down, rest, get patched up, regroup, get some coaching and then get back into the fight.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies, I think that you have to quiet the external voices and listen to you, deep inside. The old saying, opinions are like assh*les, everyone has one. Problematically, everyone comes at this situation from their own perspective. Where does that leave you, my friend? It leaves you with the opinion of the person who matters most, yourself. Only you can look inside to discover the answers. We know that your first instinct is to make nice with your ex and try to make things as they were when you first met, and married. We all know where that has led. What I think is best for you is to start slowly, engage in social activities in mixed groups. When you feel up to it, it will happen naturally, organically. Listen to your head and your heart, they will serve you well.


----------



## Cynthia

bigfoot said:


> I gotta say, I don't think dating is the best thing right now. You mentioned having someone as a "distraction" right now. That is actually a horrible thing. First, you are objectifying and using someone. Secondly, you are fresh out of a crap storm of betrayal.


All of the post that this quote is from is excellent, but I want to focus on this part. The last thing you want to do is to use other people for your own selfish needs. That is why I said earlier to have fun and be a blessing to her as well. Any relationship where people are using each other is going to create drama and pain. You don't need to cause other people pain and you don't need to be in more pain either. You are looking for someone to comfort you when there really is no comfort right now.

The only way to the end of this pain is right through it. Like Churchill said, "When you're going through hell, keep going." Deal with your pain. Find healthy ways to comfort yourself. Keep working out. Hang out with friend and family. Be a blessing to someone.


----------



## donesies

manfromlamancha said:


> Send the new guy snapshots from the journal re the other POSOM! Should be fun! This is going to be her life from now until she learns to behave.


Guaranteed this new guy doesn't care who else is in the picture - he just wants to get her in bed


----------



## donesies

Chuck71 said:


> Doc.... there's truth in both sides. When I split with 2nd love (college sweetheart), it hurt like hell.
> 
> Let's just say I parked my car overnight in too many different driveways. But the last thing I wanted
> 
> to do was what I did after 1st love (high school sweetheart) break-up.... I disappeared from public
> 
> for about two months. Call it teenage and early 20s mistakes... I went too far in each direction.
> 
> At this point....just about any female would be a distraction. For sake of point... you were hurting
> 
> 100%.... her distraction covers (not cures, just treats.... just like pharmaceuticals today) 40%,
> 
> so you hurt 60%. Still hurting but a lot less. The 40% at that time is... void... no emotion.
> 
> It is human instinct to fill that void with "temporary feelings of love." It's not love... Something like
> 
> when my XW went on a (diabetic) sugar diet. I will say the diabetic sausage she (we) ate... looked like
> 
> sausage, smelled like sausage... but in no way, tasted like sausage.
> 
> But a distraction right about now would be nice. As long as she is aware of your situation with STBXW.
> 
> But don't get to the point where you wish to increase the 40% temp feeling, not only to 75%
> 
> but to repel the hurt down to 25%. It's human nature to do this. But it's a band-aid.... the pain
> 
> is still there and will be.... when whatever it is with whoever it is, runs its course.
> 
> Been there, done that... worked in advertising for them. Yes I was young but.. pain is pain.
> 
> Try considering her a "wing woman" who you can do interesting and exciting things with.
> 
> Play putt putt golf, catch a baseball game in the nosebleed section and try to guess who
> 
> plays on what team, or go to the lake and just..... talk. Talk about your oddball teen years, your
> 
> childhood fears, how goofy you acted around your first crush. I'm guessing you probably did not
> 
> have many "deep" chats with your STBXW. Who knows.... this gal might be a fit for you
> 
> but you can not make an unbiased judgement on this while the pain meter is active.
> 
> It's a balancing act.... and a tough one.


I appreciate these thoughts. One thing that I will say is that my STBXW and I DID have a lot of deep chats


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

I was a football coach for over 40 years. I like coaching smaller schools because of the closeness with the players. Their are a lot of dynamics in being a head football coach that many don't know about.

One is the pressure: pressure from parents, pressure from the players, pressure from fans, pressure from news media, pressure from peers (other head coaches), pressure from assistant coaches, pressure to be a teacher with a full load of classes, and pressure from your family.

One of the greatest pressures is play calling. Now in a small school, the fans are usually right on your back, close enough that you can feel them breathing down your neck. And you can hear what they are saying.

With all of this you have about 15 seconds to call the next play. Your job, your family's future, your reputation in your chosen profession, all riding on the next decision, and you've got about 15 seconds to make that decision. About 15 seconds later, you have to do it again. All over a period of a couple of hours.

One slip up and it can not only cost you your job, it could mean you lose everything. I used to carry a couple of million in insurance in case I ever got sued. On the next play, there could be a life changing injury. I saw one coach get sued for $5 million. He lost. 

It isn't just Doctors who can get sued for malpractice. Of course the big bucks a high school coach gets paid make up for the risk. :wink2:

Now, lets cut to the chase. *With all of these pressures on the next call, I never let anybody pressure me into a call.* 

I had one assistant coach who got so angry with me for ignoring his call that he cursed at me. I fired him on the spot, made him sit in the grandstand, and ride home on one of the fan buses.>

I won games, I lost games, I was fired a couple of times, but I also won several national, state, and local coaching awards. I had over 70 players go on to play college football, (16 at the Division I level), and 2 played in the NFL with one a starting QB.

You are the Head Coach of your life. We are your assistant coaches. You have to live with your decisions, not us. 

As the lyrics of Journey's song *Don't Stop Believing* go,

*Some will win,
Some will lose,
Some were born to sing the blues*


----------



## TDSC60

Worry, disbelief, regret, heartache, WHY DID SHE DO THIS, HOW COULD SHE DO THIS.

All normal feelings and questions. Unfortunately, you will most likely never understand the how and why of it.

Your feelings for and about her will fade over time.

One line from a movie that struck me applies. Good advice. "Forget about forgiving and just accept." Put your worries and questions aside. Just accept the fact that she does not love you nor want you, then move on with YOUR life without her in it.


----------



## Chaparral

For now you might want to make yourself a simple rule like not taking the same lady out twice in a row. You need to be looking around and see how different women are now acting. Things aren’t like they used to be just a few years ago. Date as many as you can to see how they compare.


----------



## donesies

One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.

The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny ****


----------



## badmemory

donesies said:


> The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny ****


You can't control your thoughts and feelings but you can control your actions. Fake it till you make it. Eventually, you'll feel as strong as you act.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.
> 
> The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny ****


You are not whiny. You are in a life shattering situation and looking for support. You come here to get talked off the relationship ledge and we are here for you. You are doing fine. How you are currently feeling is normal, despite how awfully your stbx has treated you. You're having a difficult time recognizing that the woman you are divorcing is the same woman that you feel in love with and married. It doesn't make any sense until you realize that you did not know her as well as you thought you did and she didn't want you to.

You are doing a great job in staying dark on her and working through your pain. Stay the course. Things will get better with time, but you cannot expect it to be quick. It will take a few months before you get a handle on this. It's okay. Be patient.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.
> 
> *The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny *****


As muh grammah us'd to say.... "Weunz alls been thar"

If she just said "bye bye" and refused any $.... would you miss her the same, more, or less than?


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. *Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.
> 
> *


That is exactly what we are here for, and will continue to be here for. We are a big, dysfunctional, ****ed-up family of wounded people, and like it or not you are family now. 





> The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, *but in reality I feel like a whiny *****




Your actions have proven otherwise. A man is proven by what he does, not by what he says.


But...I hate to tell you, she doesn't think that way about you. Fact is, she isn't thinking about you at all.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> That is exactly what we are here for, and will continue to be here for. We are a big, dysfunctional, ****ed-up family of wounded people, and like it or not you are family now.
> 
> 
> 
> [/B]
> 
> Your actions have proven otherwise. A man is proven by what he does, not by what he says.
> 
> 
> But...I hate to tell you, she doesn't think that way about you. Fact is, she isn't thinking about you at all.


Yeah. You're probably right.


----------



## giddiot

donesies said:


> One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.
> 
> 
> 
> The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny ****




No you aren’t, your more under control than most. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ButtPunch

I agree with the others.

So far you have done great. 

You still have a long ways to go. 

Fake it until you make it.

The next time she sees you act like the happiest 
damn person in the planet.


----------



## donesies

ButtPunch said:


> I agree with the others.
> 
> So far you have done great.
> 
> You still have a long ways to go.
> 
> Fake it until you make it.
> 
> The next time she sees you act like the happiest
> damn person in the planet.


I’m counting on it not being an act. 

At times I feel like this is probably a good thing.


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> I’m counting on it not being an act.
> 
> At times I feel like this is probably a good thing.


Without a doubt


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.
> 
> The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny ****


Her actions thus far have told you everything you need to know about who she really is and what she thought of the marriage. 

She may have been your loyal wife at one time but somewhere she choose to cheat and lie and sneak around and hide her true self from you. 

By remaining silent silent you are telling her that cheating and lying in a committed relationship is a deal breaker and you respect yourself to much to ever back track on that, that you will never grovel and beg. By remaining silent you are telling her off. 

Your actions are what count. Of course you are going feel like to want to reach out to her and express your anger or ask 'why'? Just continue to resist those urges. If she wanted to talk about it she would have reached out by now. So far all she has done is chat about the cable bill and asked for the journal or journal pics that you have. Does not sound like someone ready to reconcile and asking why or expresses anger will change nothing.

Sometime in the future you will have an opportunity to tell her to f off. That should be when you are as detached as she has become. I am hoping for you it will happen randomly as you are pushing a baby stroller and you just gaze right thorough her like she is a stranger, a nobody. Not worthy of even a smile back. Like someone dead to you,.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

I think that if I was feeling like calling her I would read a few of her journal entries.

I am just waiting for the pissed off Donesies to show up. That would help in your training and running also. Nothing like a little anger to get the old adrenaline pumping. 

You also mentioned that you would have to be in places where she is. I wouldn't be there alone.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> I think that if I was feeling like calling her I would read a few of her journal entries.
> 
> I am just waiting for the pissed off Donesies to show up. That would help in your training and running also. Nothing like a little anger to get the old adrenaline pumping.
> 
> You also mentioned that you would have to be in places where she is. I wouldn't be there alone.


So then who do I go with? A date?


----------



## skerzoid

A friend. Do you have friends that you run with? Single women that you know. You mentioned a woman friend, tell her you need dinner friend or if not her, another friend.

What are these occasions where you would run into her? At the club? Why would you be there in the first place? Did you have friends there or acquaintances there? This doesn't have to someone that you are courting. Ask them to dinner. Do you have any single friends that are dating. Maybe they could set you up with a friend that they would like you to meet and you could double. Thats how grown ups get acquainted. Take some dance lessons, you might make a friend. 

I'm not trying to get you back out there, I'm trying get you some back up. I just don't like the idea of her flaunting someone in your face while you are by yourself. You need to start getting your confidence back. There are plenty on here who will say "no" & call it a dumb idea. Okay, just think about it.

Remember, the greatest and noblest warrior king of legend? That would be King Arthur. His wife was Guinevere. She cheated with his best friend Lancelot. It happens to the best of us.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> So then who do I go with? A date?


Anybody you want. Its really that simple.


----------



## SGr

donesies said:


> One thing is very strange. I get these overwhelming urges to contact her and either ask her to come back or tell her off. Instead, I come here and tell you guys and you convince me to continue the radio silence.
> 
> The weird part is that she probably thinks that I'm super strong, decisive, and resilient, but in reality I feel like a whiny ****


Strength and resilience starts with resisting one urge at a time.
Keep at it.


----------



## VFW

The reason for silence to your ex is for you to heal. You are going to have ups and downs, we all do. You will be mad one day and tell her off and the next day you get melancholy and want to beg her to go back. This doesn't help you to heal and begging is not attractive but just makes you look weak. You have mentioned several times at her attractiveness, which leads me to think that she might be a bit of a Princess. Guys have always fawned over her, its like an addictive drug. Even if you begged her and she returned, it will only be a matter of time before she needs another fix. 

I don't think there is a right or wrong time to date, or even have adult relations, you know yourself and you are a big boy. However, dating seriously too soon people tend to settle for what is available at that moment. There are a plethora of women, attractive women that would love to find a man as yourself. Patience my friend, take your time, let the legal things work out, be by yourself for a little bit and let your head clear. If you get the chance to go to dinner with a young lady, fine go have a nice dinner. You can even enjoy a nice glass of wine and if the two of you decide to dance the tango, so be it then. Just don't get in too big of a hurry to buy wife 2.0 as a replacement.


----------



## blahfridge

donesies said:


> So then who do I go with? A date?


I think it's perfectly fine to go by yourself or with a friend or family member that has your back. You don't need to bring a date. Frankly it smacks of high school drama to bring someone just to show up your STBXW. Take the high road. If she shows up with a date then she is the one who will look pathetic. You've only been separated for a short while and she's already on BF number two. If she tries to get your attention, pointedly ignore her, especially if she is with another man. Spend your time in quiet conversation with people you know and respect. 
Above all, take your time, as others have counseled, and be selective with whom you associate. Her behavior will be seen for what it is.


----------



## Coach23

Hi donesies,

Everyone here is giving you some good advice. However I'm not sure I would play all the games. End of the day the love of your life simply didn't protect your heart like she promised when you got married. She has become a selfish, self-centered person who betrayed you,. As difficult as it is you need to stay calm get all the evidence you can on her and take your heart back. Adults don't play games with each other minds. You are better than that. She has shattered the person you are, but it is her who is really broken, you are just collateral damage. Stay calm, let the PI do his job, get the VAR, tracking information & phone information and anything else you can. Unless there is an absolute need to be where she is just stay away. It’s just self-mutilation otherwise. Do a 180 and never let her see your pain. I've been there. I'll tell you, my wife was remorseful, ashamed and sorry the moment I found out. Her fog lifted immediately. She quit her job, become completely transparent and did everything she was supposed to do. We are still together, however you have to be careful as depression can set in and sometime you simply cannot control your thoughts. I still have moments I feel overwhelmed with pain, sadness and anger. Still have images and mental movies that can creep up from time to time, still have times I find a dark spot and cry alone. I look back and honestly wish I had divorced, however I had a son who was only 1 year old and I grew up without a father and at the time could not fathom not being in his life every single day, you don't have this issue. It’s been 30 YEARS since D-day. I have had good times in my life with her, good INDIVIDUAL times, Not happiness, There is a difference. I have not felt TRUE happiness with my life since. I am now looking into the possibility of getting a divorce 30 YEARS later. I feel I just wasted a significant amount of my life. I deserved better and so do you. There are literally millions of women out there. The adage "she is the ONE". No, there are lots of "ONES". She is NOT the ONLY one and you deserve respect, affection and appreciation for what you do. Don't settle for being a doormat one more moment. Good Luck my friend,


----------



## donesies

Coach23 said:


> Hi donesies,
> 
> Everyone here is giving you some good advice. However I'm not sure I would play all the games. End of the day the love of your life simply didn't protect your heart like she promised when you got married. She has become a selfish, self-centered person who betrayed not only you, but your children also. It is your job as a parent to now protect them, even more so then yourself. It is better to divorce and have your children raised by two separate happy parents then to have them in a toxic environment. As difficult as it is you need to stay calm get all the evidence you can on her and take your heart back. Adults don't play games with each other minds. You are better than that. She has shattered the person you are, but it is her who is really broken, you are just collateral damage. Stay calm, let the PI do his job, get the VAR, tracking information & phone information and anything else you can. Unless there is an absolute need to be where she is just stay away. It’s just self-mutilation otherwise. Do a 180 and never let her see your pain. I've been there. I'll tell you, my wife was remorseful, ashamed and sorry the moment I found out. Her fog lifted immediately. She quit her job, become completely transparent and did everything she was supposed to do. We are still together, however my son was 1 year old when I found out and for years was being raised in a toxic environment as I was angry as hell for a long time, you have to be careful as depression can set in and sometime you simply cannot control your thoughts. I still have moments I feel overwhelmed with pain, sadness and anger. I know all this had a negative effect on his life. I look back and honestly wish I had divorced as I have not felt true happiness with my life since. Its been 30 years since D-day. I have had good times in my life, we get along well, however feeling happiness with my life? I can't say I have felt that since. I am now looking into the possibility of getting a divorce, I feel I just wasted a significant amount of my life. I deserved better and so do you. There are literally millions of women out there. The adage "she is the ONE". No, there are lots of "ONES". She is NOT the ONLY one and you deserve respect, affection and appreciation for what you do. Don't settle for being a doormat one more moment.
> 
> Good Luck my friend,


Thanks for the input. Just to clarify: I have no children


----------



## Suspicious1

Coach23 said:


> Hi donesies,
> 
> Everyone here is giving you some good advice. However I'm not sure I would play all the games. End of the day the love of your life simply didn't protect your heart like she promised when you got married. She has become a selfish, self-centered person who betrayed not only you, but your children also. It is your job as a parent to now protect them, even more so then yourself. It is better to divorce and have your children raised by two separate happy parents then to have them in a toxic environment. As difficult as it is you need to stay calm get all the evidence you can on her and take your heart back. Adults don't play games with each other minds. You are better than that. She has shattered the person you are, but it is her who is really broken, you are just collateral damage. Stay calm, let the PI do his job, get the VAR, tracking information & phone information and anything else you can. Unless there is an absolute need to be where she is just stay away. It’s just self-mutilation otherwise. Do a 180 and never let her see your pain. I've been there. I'll tell you, my wife was remorseful, ashamed and sorry the moment I found out. Her fog lifted immediately. She quit her job, become completely transparent and did everything she was supposed to do. We are still together, however my son was 1 year old when I found out and for years was being raised in a toxic environment as I was angry as hell for a long time, you have to be careful as depression can set in and sometime you simply cannot control your thoughts. I still have moments I feel overwhelmed with pain, sadness and anger. I know all this had a negative effect on his life. I look back and honestly wish I had divorced as I have not felt true happiness with my life since. Its been 30 years since D-day. I have had good times in my life, we get along well, however feeling happiness with my life? I can't say I have felt that since. I am now looking into the possibility of getting a divorce, I feel I just wasted a significant amount of my life. I deserved better and so do you. There are literally millions of women out there. The adage "she is the ONE". No, there are lots of "ONES". She is NOT the ONLY one and you deserve respect, affection and appreciation for what you do. Don't settle for being a doormat one more moment.
> 
> Good Luck my friend,


No kids in the marriage.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

Donesies why do you absolutely have to go to these social events where you think she is going to be? Can you not pick and choose which are important and which are not? 

Unless it has something to do directly with your medical practice, my suggestion would be to take a hiatus from such activities until such time you have detached and perhaps found a new partner. This could be a period of a year or more from now.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> Donesies why do you absolutely have to go to these social events where you think she is going to be? Can you not pick and choose which are important and which are not?
> 
> Unless it has something to do directly with your medical practice, my suggestion would be to take a hiatus from such activities until such time you have detached and perhaps found a new partner. This could be a period of a year or more from now.


Has to do with the specialty I'm in and my contract. It can't be avoided. Besides, I do enjoy the activities and I think I will bounce back from this faster than she will. I'm beginning to realize that more people are siding with me in this divorce.


----------



## Coach23

No Children,

Donesies, Yeah I realized that and actually edited my response, but other then that everything still holds true. I'm not sure why it didn't take. Below is my re-write. 

Everyone here is giving you some good advice. However I'm not sure I would play all the games. End of the day the love of your life simply didn't protect your heart like she promised when you got married. She has become a selfish, self-centered person who betrayed you. As difficult as it is you need to stay calm get all the evidence you can on her and take your heart back. Adults don't play games with each other minds. You are better than that. She has shattered the person you are, but it is her who is really broken, you are just collateral damage. Stay calm, let the PI do his job, get the VAR, tracking information & phone information and anything else you can. Unless there is an absolute need to be where she is just stay away. It’s just self-mutilation otherwise. Do a 180 and never let her see your pain. I've been there. I'll tell you, my wife was remorseful, ashamed and sorry the moment I found out. Her fog lifted immediately. She quit her job, become completely transparent and did everything she was supposed to do. We are still together, however you have to be careful as depression can set in and sometime you simply cannot control your thoughts. I still have moments I feel overwhelmed with pain, sadness and anger. Still have images and mental movies that can creep up from time to time. I look back and honestly wish I had divorced, however I had a son who was only 1 year old and I grew up without a father and at the time could not fathom not being in his life every single day, you don't have this issue. It’s been 30 YEARS since D-day. I have had good times in my life with her, good INDIVIDUAL times, Not happiness, There is a difference. I have not felt TRUE happiness with my life since. I am now looking into the possibility of getting a divorce 30 YEARS later. I feel I just wasted a significant amount of my life. I deserved better and so do you. There are literally millions of women out there. The adage "she is the ONE". No, there are lots of "ONES". She is NOT the ONLY one and you deserve respect, affection and appreciation for what you do. Don't settle for being a doormat one more moment. 

Good Luck my friend,


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Has to do with the specialty I'm in and my contract. It can't be avoided. Besides, I do enjoy the activities and I think I will bounce back from this faster than she will. I'm beginning to realize that more people are siding with me in this divorce.


If it has to do with your physician's group or a hospital you are a partners with, then that is a no-brainer. But country clubbing should be off the list for a while. For a while, until you are on your feet emotionally. Just my opinion.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Has to do with the specialty I'm in and my contract. It can't be avoided. Besides, I do enjoy the activities and I think I will bounce back from this faster than she will. I'm beginning to realize that more people are siding with me in this divorce.


Go wherever the hell you want, whenever you want with who ever you want. Bring a pal, bring a date, bring a escort if you want. Where you go and who you go with is non of your ex-wife's business. She literally leeched off of you long enough. She does not get to suck up the social space too. Fight for it. Your career, her mooch space. Push her aside. She makes a stink or acts like an ass or is uncomfortable her and her toxic friends are free to go somewhere else.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies,

Like I said, we are just your assistant coaches. You make the calls cause its your life. Now your lawyer, he's your athletic director. Always go with what he says. Sounds like you are getting a handle on this. 


Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times.":smthumbup:


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> If it has to do with your physician's group or a hospital you are a partners with, then that is a no-brainer. But country clubbing should be off the list for a while. For a while, until you are on your feet emotionally. Just my opinion.


Agree


----------



## bandit.45

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Go wherever the hell you want, whenever you want with who ever you want. Bring a pal, bring a date, bring a escort if you want. Where you go and who you go with is non of your ex-wife's business. She literally leeched off of you long enough. She does not get to suck up the social space too. Fight for it. Your career, her mooch space. Push her aside. She makes a stink or acts like an ass or is uncomfortable her and her toxic friends are free to go somewhere else.


My issue with this is that, even if he does take a hot date to one of these events, if he does run into his STBXWW with another man it is going to knock him back in his healing. Whatever progress he thinks he's made in detaching from her could be thrashed in one fell swoop and he could revert back to square one. 

I'm saying he needs to put as much distance between himself and his STBXWW as he can, and do what he can to avoid seeing her in public, for at least a good year or so until he is completely moved on and detached. A ho is going to ho, and he will run into her at some point. I don't want to have to help pick up the pieces when he comes back to us shattered because he saw his wife at a party hanging onto some young stud.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

If the 'country clubs' are the same places she strayed that is the first place you should take back. 

She is the one who will not able to look you in the eye. Let her scurry away like the little rat she is. 

You need these social engagements for your career and to be with professional peers. YOU paid for them. Let her get off her lazy arse, develop a career and pay for her own. Or find a 2nd marriage round fool to pay her way. Somewhere else.

Her being to lazy to get a full time job really gets to my craw. She is a leech, a mooch and a rat. F her. Take all the clubs back, Anyone asks at the clubhouse let them know that you were not good enough to be married too but for the next 3.5 years you are good enough to leech alimony off of. She is slime.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> Has to do with the specialty I'm in and my contract. It can't be avoided. Besides, I do enjoy the activities and I think I will bounce back from this faster than she will. I'm beginning to realize that more people are siding with me in this divorce.


If they are social gatherings related to your employment, what reason is there for her to go to them anymore? If it's an organization you are part of for your work, then she's got no more ties to it and doesn't belong there. Tell these organizations you're divorcing and to remove her from their invitation list.



bandit.45 said:


> My issue with this is that, even if he does take a hot date to one of these events, if he does run into his STBXWW with another man it is going to knock him back in his healing. Whatever progress he thinks he's made in detaching from her could be thrashed in one fell swoop and he could revert back to square one.
> 
> I'm saying he needs to put as much distance between himself and his STBXWW as he can, and do what he can to avoid seeing her in public, for at least a good year or so until he is completely moved on and detached. A ho is going to ho, and he will run into her at some point. I don't want to have to help pick up the pieces when he comes back to us shattered because he saw his wife at a party hanging onto some young stud.


Yeah, if it's an event you believe your ex would still reasonably attend, bring a friend who has your back. Not a date, just a buddy, maybe female, but it doesn't have to be. A colleague maybe, or someone from the local men's divorce support group. Someone who knows your situation and can run interference, someone who will recognize when you are unsteady and help stabilize you.


----------



## bandit.45

I'm just afraid that, at this stage in the game, she is emotionally stronger than him. Her seeing him with some young thang is not going to hit her as hard as him seeing her with her new sugar-daddy. I want to spare him that. He can reclaim that real estate later on when he is fully detached. 

And what I don't get is...why would she be allowed to attend these events? By divorcing him hasn't she lost her social status? Why would the wives of other club members continue to associate with her?


----------



## Cynthia

bandit.45 said:


> I'm just afraid that, at this stage in the game, she is emotionally stronger than him. Her seeing him with some young thang is not going to hit her as hard as him seeing her with her new sugar-daddy. I want to spare him that. He can reclaim that real estate later on when he is fully detached.
> 
> And what I don't get is...why would she be allowed to attend these events? By divorcing him hasn't she lost her social status? Why would the wives of other club members continue to associate with her?


Fully agree with this post. Also want to know why she is attending these events.


----------



## ButtPunch

CynthiaDe said:


> Fully agree with this post. Also want to know why she is attending these events.


That makes three of us


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bandit.45 said:


> My issue with this is that, even if he does take a hot date to one of these events, if he does run into his STBXWW with another man it is going to knock him back in his healing. Whatever progress he thinks he's made in detaching from her could be thrashed in one fell swoop and he could revert back to square one.
> 
> I'm saying he needs to put as much distance between himself and his STBXWW as he can, and do what he can to avoid seeing her in public, for at least a good year or so until he is completely moved on and detached. A ho is going to ho, and he will run into her at some point. I don't want to have to help pick up the pieces when he comes back to us shattered because he saw his wife at a party hanging onto some young stud.


Donesies, you have more intestinal fortitude that that right? 

Why should you hide? You are paying for it. It it takes anger to take back your public space by all means use anger. 

I just don't see you falling to pieces because she is out and about in places you are subsidizing.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies
Right now, seeing her elicits an adrenal response akin to fight or flight. Common to experience when you have been abused, and sir, make no mistake, you have been abused. Infidelity is spousal abuse. You did the only thing to stop the abuse, you ended the marriage. She knows what she did. Otherwise , she would have not signed the lowball offer, and would have fought. 

OK, so you see her at professional functions. Sooner or later, the truth will come out, then you may not be seeing much of her. If you are in the same room, distance yourself. Try not to look in her direction. If someone asks, take the high road. If someone tells you that she is saying things about you, ask what they are, and if it is a lie, correct them.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Yeah. You're probably right.


A glimpse at the truth of your STBXW thoughts, or lack there of.


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> Has to do with the specialty I'm in and my contract. It can't be avoided. Besides, I do enjoy the activities and I think I will bounce back from this faster than she will. I'm beginning to realize that more people are siding with me in this divorce.


I think you'll find out that in regards to gathering like this she won't be invited or it will be made clear she isn't the most welcome person in the room rather quickly. My ex went thru this and thought it no problem showing up at an event or two that I had to attend. While my ex thought everybody liked her most only tolerated her because of me. Once news broke of the divorce and then people finding out circumstances of divorce, her affair, people were pretty quick to give her the cold shoulder. 

Don't be shocked if once the dust settles a little people start telling how they didn't think all that highly of your stbx in the first place.


----------



## donesies

Hopeful Cynic said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying he needs to put as much distance between himself and his STBXWW as he can, and do what he can to avoid seeing her in public, for at least a good year or so until he is completely moved on and detached. A ho is going to ho, and he will run into her at some point. I don't want to have to help pick up the pieces when he comes back to us shattered because he saw his wife at a party hanging onto some young stud.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not going to expound anymore than to say that there are functions that I must attend for my career and she must also attend
Click to expand...


----------



## VladDracul

She has to attend these functions? My guess is, other than being a prima donna, she's either in the medical field, maybe another doctor, or a cocktail waitress.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. You said STBXW is with *another* guy. If she were to remarry in the next three years, wouldn't she be risking her alimony payments. She can't be that stupid. Can she? I would ask the lawyer about whether this would also apply if she were just cohabiting.

2. Also, if this is true, she is showing signs of being a *serial cheater*. Would it be possible that this isn't her first run around the block?

3. Just out of curiosity, and so other betrayed spouses could see the value of exposure, do you think that her change of soulmates is due to Fatboy's wife finding out about his cheating. Would your PI have any knowledge of this?

4. I was glad to hear that you have friends that are supporting you in this. You got this Doc!


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 1. You said STBXW is with *another* guy. If she were to remarry in the next three years, wouldn't she be risking her alimony payments. She can't be that stupid. Can she? I would ask the lawyer about whether this would also apply if she were just cohabiting.
> 
> 2. Also, if this is true, she is showing signs of being a *serial cheater*. Would it be possible that this isn't her first run around the block?
> 
> 3. Just out of curiosity, and so other betrayed spouses could see the value of exposure, do you think that her change of soulmates is due to Fatboy's wife finding out about his cheating. Would your PI have any knowledge of this?
> 
> 4. I was glad to hear that you have friends that are supporting you in this. You got this Doc!


1. That clause wasn't included because the alimony wasn't that long and lawyer said it doesn't happen too often anyway

2. Very possible

3. I think there's a strong possibility that fatboy pulled out once his wife found out. She never contacted me, but I know she got the text.

4. Thank you


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> 1. That clause wasn't included because the alimony wasn't that long and lawyer said it doesn't happen too often anyway
> 
> 2. Very possible
> 
> 3. I think there's a strong possibility that fatboy pulled out once his wife found out. *She never contacted me, but I know she got the text.*
> 
> 4. Thank you


You have 3rd party verification that she read the text and knows that it is from you and she is is aware that the OM was her husband?


----------



## Survivn13

donesies said:


> Hopeful Cynic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not going to expound anymore than to say that there are functions that I must attend for my career and she must also attend
> 
> 
> 
> This is not unlike my children's events when my WW and I had to attend. I recommend going alone and holding your head high. If she brings boyfriend she will make herself look bad.
Click to expand...


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. That clause wasn't included because the alimony wasn't that long and lawyer said it doesn't happen too often anyway
> 
> 2. Very possible
> 
> 3. I think there's a strong possibility that fatboy pulled out once his wife found out. *She never contacted me, but I know she got the text.*
> 
> 4. Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> You have 3rd party verification that she read the text and knows that it is from you and she is is aware that the OM was her husband?
Click to expand...

The text message displayed a read receipt. I suppose that OM could have intercepted it...


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> The text message displayed a read receipt. I suppose that OM could have intercepted it...


That may have been enough to scare him off and throw her under the bus. Sucks to be her. :wink2:


----------



## 3putt

donesies said:


> The text message displayed a read receipt. *I suppose that OM could have intercepted it...*


You should assume this is the case until it's proven not to be. Lord only knows how many times we have seen this and have it wrongly assumed she actually saw it when in reality, she never did.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> The text message displayed a read receipt. I suppose that OM could have intercepted it...


Maybe, or OM explained away as the ravings of a bitter crazy man. "The guy's nuts, I barely know her!". "She dumped him for someone else, I have no idea why he thinks it is me"? 

I'd follow up. 

I know I don't know your state laws or the particular judge or the bent of the court where you live in terms of probabilities she can contest what she has signed so far.

She can always try and raise alimony anytime though, but from what I have seen in life it always needs a real verifiable change in her circumstances. Your lawyer can advise on your particulars if they have not already. 

That being said I would work overtime in getting another message to the wife and ask for a sit down. The why being that as a human being you feel she should know exactly who she is married to and are willing to show her proof. Perhaps a friend of a friend can approach her diplomatically and with absolute tact and discretion. Myself, I would call her at work. 

Myself, in your shoes I would sleep better knowing I went all out to expose that POS. For her sake.


----------



## Walloped

Donesies,

I don’t really post here as I’m not such a popular guy (as you’ve already seen). I agree with the others who say not to follow what I’ve done. Absolutely. And don’t follow what they did either. There is no manual. You need to find your own path and what works for you. Whether that’s R or D is irrelevant. Personally, and this might surprise folks here at TAM and even at SI, I am NOT pro-R. In fact, 95%+ of the time I believe strongly that D is the best route to take. The only times I think R makes sense is if the WS does the work and is consistent over time. 

Please understand that this is not a game. This is your life and you have to live with your choices. It doesn’t matter how many times you come here and get an “attaboy” from people here, it’s your life and you’re the one who has to live it. Also, understand that while there are many good and wise posters here, there is a vocal minority that have an agenda. D at all costs. That’s fine, they’re entitled to their opinions. My point simply is that this is a massive crapburger that you’re dealing with, but it’s only you that has to deal with it. Take advice, weigh options, consider your course, and do what you think is right. Hold your head up high. And most of all, own your decisions. No one else will.

I wish you the best of luck. 

T/j -

MyRevelation - I’m sorry you’re still upset that I called you out on your over generalizations about me, your complete lack of knowledge about me and my situation, and frankly your rude and offensive comments about me and my wife. Oh and that you were taking bets on when I’d commit suicide. Apparently you can only dish it out and not take because, as I recall, you basically called me a poopyhead and ran home to mommy with your tail between your legs. Really, grow up and get over it. 

manfromlamancha - I’m disappointed. We may not have always agreed, but I believe I’ve always treated you with respect. Shame that you couldn’t reciprocate. 

End T/j


----------



## alte Dame

In my opinion, there really is no need to keep hijacking this thread. PM's work very well for responding to specific individuals re issues that are immaterial to the OP's situation.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Walloped said:


> Donesies,
> 
> I don’t really post here as I’m not such a popular guy (as you’ve already seen). I agree with the others who say not to follow what I’ve done. Absolutely. And don’t follow what they did either. There is no manual. You need to find your own path and what works for you. Whether that’s R or D is irrelevant. Personally, and this might surprise folks here at TAM and even at SI, I am NOT pro-R. In fact, 95%+ of the time I believe strongly that D is the best route to take. The only times I think R makes sense is if the WS does the work and is consistent over time.
> 
> Please understand that this is not a game. This is your life and you have to live with your choices. It doesn’t matter how many times you come here and get an “attaboy” from people here, it’s your life and you’re the one who has to live it. Also, understand that while there are many good and wise posters here, there is a vocal minority that have an agenda. D at all costs. That’s fine, they’re entitled to their opinions. My point simply is that this is a massive crapburger that you’re dealing with, but it’s only you that has to deal with it. Take advice, weigh options, consider your course, and do what you think is right. Hold your head up high. And most of all, own your decisions. No one else will.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck.
> 
> T/j -
> 
> MyRevelation - I’m sorry you’re still upset that I called you out on your over generalizations about me, your complete lack of knowledge about me and my situation, and frankly your rude and offensive comments about me and my wife. Oh and that you were taking bets on when I’d commit suicide. Apparently you can only dish it out and not take because, as I recall, you basically called me a poopyhead and ran home to mommy with your tail between your legs. Really, grow up and get over it.
> 
> manfromlamancha - I’m disappointed. We may not have always agreed, but I believe I’ve always treated you with respect. Shame that you couldn’t reciprocate.
> 
> End T/j


Walloped - I have treated you with more than respect. I was looking out for you in your other thread on the other board. I have not been disrespectful to you in any way. While I am convinced of your intentions and that you are a good man, I cannot accept that your wife is truly remorseful - she sure has put on a good act and I know that you really want to believe it. Also I really wish it were true for both your sakes. But I simply cannot see it. It is your wife that I am upset with not you at all. I really do wish you well. End of T/J.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> So then who do I go with? A date?


A date/friend of the female persuasion. Let her know the what has happened and why you need her support. I have no doubt she will help you get through the event.


----------



## skerzoid

Walloped said:


> Donesies,
> 
> I don’t really post here as I’m not such a popular guy (as you’ve already seen). I agree with the others who say not to follow what I’ve done. Absolutely. And don’t follow what they did either. There is no manual. You need to find your own path and what works for you. Whether that’s R or D is irrelevant. Personally, and this might surprise folks here at TAM and even at SI, I am NOT pro-R. In fact, 95%+ of the time I believe strongly that D is the best route to take. The only times I think R makes sense is if the WS does the work and is consistent over time.
> 
> Please understand that this is not a game. This is your life and you have to live with your choices. It doesn’t matter how many times you come here and get an “attaboy” from people here, it’s your life and you’re the one who has to live it. Also, understand that while there are many good and wise posters here, there is a vocal minority that have an agenda. D at all costs. That’s fine, they’re entitled to their opinions. My point simply is that this is a massive crapburger that you’re dealing with, but it’s only you that has to deal with it. Take advice, weigh options, consider your course, and do what you think is right. Hold your head up high. And most of all, own your decisions. No one else will.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck.
> 
> T/j -
> 
> MyRevelation - I’m sorry you’re still upset that I called you out on your over generalizations about me, your complete lack of knowledge about me and my situation, and frankly your rude and offensive comments about me and my wife. Oh and that you were taking bets on when I’d commit suicide. Apparently you can only dish it out and not take because, as I recall, you basically called me a poopyhead and ran home to mommy with your tail between your legs. Really, grow up and get over it.
> 
> manfromlamancha - I’m disappointed. We may not have always agreed, but I believe I’ve always treated you with respect. Shame that you couldn’t reciprocate.
> 
> End T/j


Walloped:

Mia Culpa. I posted a couple of cuttings here of:

1. How you exposed to the OBS of the OM. Actually got a kick out of that. Having your WW listen in on that one went a long way towards bursting her bubble, especially when the OBS called her out. I think reality really began to set in on that one.

2. How you handled the organization that Mrs. Walloped and the OM were a part of. I thought that was great. Badass really.

It started a big thread jack argument. 

Anyway, I hope Mrs W is getting her stuff together. Sounds like she got a big wake up call recently. Good luck.


----------



## donesies

I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this whole mess...

I am hurt about her going crazy and moving out, changing her name back, and separating our accounts and our lives in every way. I am angry that she cared so little for us that she would just unplug like this. It's so hard to understand. 

I'm not an ultra-wealthy business magnate or real estate mogul, but I am successful and smart. In my mid-sized community, I am probably the top earner at my age - definitely top 5. I am also good-looking and turn heads everywhere I go - and that's before they find out I'm a doctor. I am well-loved in the community and I represent myself and my practice well. Although you all think I'm arrogant, I don't come across that way in my regular social circles.

I received a PM to read a thread by a guy named spaceghost from survivinginfidelity and I spent hours combing through it. The guy acted quickly and decisively like me, but ultimately had no reconciliation and 3 years later doesn't seem super happy. He is still hurt although he has dated and found some great girls, his life and illusions of a forever kind of love are shattered. He will never get married again.

I hope that I am not broken forever although I suspect that I am.

A couple things that have given me reprieve: I know that this was the best time for this all to happen (financially, professionally, and in my ability to find someone else and have a family). I know that I am in a better position than many - if nothing else, there are no kids in the picture. But nights like this really do hurt.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I think your wife revealed that she's broken deep down. She's really not capable of having healthy relationships or bonding with others the way the rest of us can. I know we've said this before, but it bears repeating: It's not YOU, it's HER. You never really had a marriage--just a piece of paper--and it's good you found out earlier rather than late.r My guess is your wife had some family trauma in her childhood or perhaps and abusive or distant parent. She just hasn't responded the way a normal person would. 

You certainly are not broken forever. It doesn't seem like it now, but you'll move past this. You will love again, you will trust again. It will be with a woman who is worthy of you. I think your wife is doomed to a life of shallow, unfulfilling relationships while she flits from one infatuation to the next, never exploring what is really wrong with her.


----------



## oldtruck

donesies said:


> The text message displayed a read receipt. I suppose that OM could have intercepted it...


This is why direct contact in person or over the phone is the only way to expose the
affair to the OMW.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this whole mess...
> 
> I am hurt about her going crazy and moving out, changing her name back, and separating our accounts and our lives in every way. I am angry that she cared so little for us that she would just unplug like this. It's so hard to understand.
> 
> I'm not an ultra-wealthy business magnate or real estate mogul, but I am successful and smart. In my mid-sized community, I am probably the top earner at my age - definitely top 5. I am also good-looking and turn heads everywhere I go - and that's before they find out I'm a doctor. I am well-loved in the community and I represent myself and my practice well. Although you all think I'm arrogant, I don't come across that way in my regular social circles.
> 
> I received a PM to read a thread by a guy named spaceghost from survivinginfidelity and I spent hours combing through it. The guy acted quickly and decisively like me, but ultimately had no reconciliation and 3 years later doesn't seem super happy. He is still hurt although he has dated and found some great girls, his life and illusions of a forever kind of love are shattered. He will never get married again.
> 
> I hope that I am not broken forever although I suspect that I am.
> 
> A couple things that have given me reprieve: I know that this was the best time for this all to happen (financially, professionally, and in my ability to find someone else and have a family). I know that I am in a better position than many - if nothing else, there are no kids in the picture. But nights like this really do hurt.



Trying to relate and differentiate from my situation to see if I can offer some help. 

- I think since it all happened so fast, you are still in sort of jetwash. Kind of like a death to a loved one that was unexpected, you just keep wondering why, how, this shouldn't be happening! There like no real answers to it. In my situation, it came sort of out of the blue to because the commitment in her words and actions of the past few years were that we were on the same page and that we were headed for better pastures in life as our kids were hitting a lot of independent milestones at 10 and 7. But now that I look back on it, the previous affair she had with the same man 8 years earlier, her attitude with me, the lack of intimacy or even interest in me in that department but it went sort of ignored as we strummed along live, taking care of kids and doing what families do, less than a year before the affair started, etc. SUMMARY HERE - my demise was a slow, painful one but it allowed me to reflect on it better. Whereas yours was, out of nowhere with no real indicators.

- You are still trying to rationalize things and that is understandable, I am as well, 10 months past the affair start and 2.5 months into the divorce. That's just something that will never make sense to us and most days I understand now, the less I try to rationalize, the better. The emotions of the human brain, especially one that is like our Significant Others' defy logic, rationalization and anything they had shown in public. My STBXW is a prominent figure in our Parish. She often talked openly and badly of people who cheated, were bad parents, bad people, etc. So many things we talked about being against and not standing for, she does herself without question and is so off the deep end, she doesn't to this day, think she has done really anything wrong. I told her several times, forget about what you did for me for a second, you checked out on me and probably see us as being divorced in your own head anyway. Forget about that, but what about what you are doing to the other man's family, his wife, his kids, his grandkids. By actively pursuing him, even after his wife finds out each time, you destroying his family. Her response was, that was their problem and that he's unhappy, etc. The bottom line is that no matter what I have said, it won't do anything to her, everything is met with an excuse and justification. Everything that I have wanted to say to her still, I just write down like I have been for months and it helps.

- HOPE and why I think it will be different for you. This is not to make it sound like myself and others have it harder but to point out items where you are much further ahead once you clear this fog. You had a decent relationship with her in terms of length but many of the people on here seem to have had the vestment I had or even longer. For me, we started dating in 2000, giving us 18 years together. More importantly, 2 kids. Those 2 kids will tie us together from here on our whether we like it or not and frankly, I don't care. If I had to go through this Hell again to get those 2 kids, I would do it an infinite amount of times. Since you don't have the kid bond + your age. I would discard the fear of reading other peoples' dreariness, even years after the affair and divorce. You are going to get through this, hopefully with some counseling (it has been a life saver for me) and this may even be a sad thing for you but the further you move away from this, the less she will mean. It will most likely seem as just like a long term relationship that ended on a sour note. You guys tied the knot but with no kids, it will further differentiate, the marriage you do have with kids and this one. A marriage with the ultimate joy of sharing that bond vs. the long relationship that you had with her, that didn't work out. 

Hopefully some of this makes sense. Maybe one last point I'll make so I don't ramble on too much is the topic and feedback I have gotten from my counselor over the past few weeks. I have spent SO long trying to project the image of what I thought we had as a marriage, as a family, an image that I held of my wife. When even my wife said she was pretty much living a lie and others around me, close, said this is not who she was all along, I did my best to deny that .... to even go one step further and fight to make it work so that I could prove, she wasn't like this. I told her, I believed in her, that she was good inside and I wanted her to reach who she could be, not what she had become ... a cheater, breaking up two families. My realization, as hard as it is to even say ... is this is not who she became, this is who she was. She just did a great job of fooling everyone around her, even herself on what she showed in public and even shows to this day to protect an image through manipulation. For the most part of my counseling, my counselor reassured me that I did show my wife true love and that my wife most likely loved me for the most part but given the information I continue to provide to the counselor. Her theory is that my wife probably did love me as much as she knew or could but in all honesty, my wife probably has no idea what true love even is. That it's clear through her actions what she is attracted to. The thrill of the early stages of romance, the lust, the chemicals, the feeling of a fairy tale. True love, is what comes after that, when the chemicals are gone, when the looks are fading and when conflict arises. When two people that believe in each other give their lives to each other. As sad as it is to say, I believed in my wife but I believed in a projected image because that is what I wanted. What I had been living with all these years is someone that was broken but refused to be helped and someone that really doesn't like herself but when it push came to shove, the person that came first in her life ... was the one in the mirror.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this whole mess...
> 
> I am hurt about her going crazy and moving out, changing her name back, and separating our accounts and our lives in every way. I am angry that she cared so little for us that she would just unplug like this. It's so hard to understand.
> 
> I'm not an ultra-wealthy business magnate or real estate mogul, but I am successful and smart. In my mid-sized community, I am probably the top earner at my age - definitely top 5. I am also good-looking and turn heads everywhere I go - and that's before they find out I'm a doctor. I am well-loved in the community and I represent myself and my practice well. Although you all think I'm arrogant, I don't come across that way in my regular social circles.
> 
> I received a PM to read a thread by a guy named spaceghost from survivinginfidelity and I spent hours combing through it. The guy acted quickly and decisively like me, but ultimately had no reconciliation and 3 years later doesn't seem super happy. He is still hurt although he has dated and found some great girls, his life and illusions of a forever kind of love are shattered. He will never get married again.
> 
> I hope that I am not broken forever although I suspect that I am.
> 
> A couple things that have given me reprieve: I know that this was the best time for this all to happen (financially, professionally, and in my ability to find someone else and have a family). I know that I am in a better position than many - if nothing else, there are no kids in the picture. But nights like this really do hurt.


Donesies it is going to hurt for a while.

However, you are going to be just fine.

Infidelity is all too common these days and most here have been thru it.

I promise everything will end up ok. 

Pain is a part of life. Embrace it.

The amount of pain you feel will one day be the amount of joy experience.

Here is the story you need to be reading.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51949-wife-best-friend-having-least-ea.html


Stop focusing so much on your broken wife.

You can't save her. You can't fix her. Let her go.


----------



## Taxman

Donesies, Yes there is a modicum of equivalency between yourself and SpaceGhost's story, however, his was a longer term marriage, and his wife was absolutely desperate to reconcile. She attempted suicide subsequent to the divorce. Whereas, Donesies, your STBX is busily trying to blank you out of her history, either from guilt or arrogance. In short continuing to act despicably. If she had a conscience, she would have been at your doorstep begging forgiveness. Instead, she took the offer, and fled the scene, like a common criminal. It is normal to grieve the loss of a relationship, but her actions speak volumes about her character.


----------



## eric1

Don,

You are thinking too far ahead. There is no roadmap of how you handle this next part and you have enough variables to contest with at this point anyways.

The common theme between Walloped and Spaceghost is that they acted decisively. You need to act decisively to setup the next healing steps, whatever they may be. You are doing that now. It is very hard. It is something you must do.

In terms of your long term healing let’s use W and SG, who diverged at this point. There are so many things to consider but above all what you’re doing is recovery from an abuse cycle. SG has clearly chosen the distance method and W has chosen a different one. Neither are right or wrong.

Just know that being decisive isn’t impact a future healing decision, it’s setting up healing so that you can make a decision. For every SG who seems a bit bitter there is an ohforanewme (SI), nononsense (SI) or Comer (TAM) who are patented successes. What led to their successes was a distinct realization of their own self-worth. All these things revolving around you in life can be the way that they are, or they do not need to be the way they are. All of those are details that can be changed. Just know that these details are in rotation around you like moons to a planet. YOU are the center of this, focus on what is important.

Do what makes you happy. If exercising floats your boat - great. If some no-strings sex with a 25 year old from Tinder works for you, roll with it. This is a time for you to be happy and excited that you are alive. It just takes a modest shift of perception to get there.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this whole mess...
> 
> I am hurt about her going crazy and moving out, changing her name back, and separating our accounts and our lives in every way. I am angry that she cared so little for us that she would just unplug like this. It's so hard to understand.
> 
> I'm not an ultra-wealthy business magnate or real estate mogul, but I am successful and smart. In my mid-sized community, I am probably the top earner at my age - definitely top 5. I am also good-looking and turn heads everywhere I go - and that's before they find out I'm a doctor. I am well-loved in the community and I represent myself and my practice well. Although you all think I'm arrogant, I don't come across that way in my regular social circles.
> 
> I received a PM to read a thread by a guy named spaceghost from survivinginfidelity and I spent hours combing through it. The guy acted quickly and decisively like me, but ultimately had no reconciliation and 3 years later doesn't seem super happy. He is still hurt although he has dated and found some great girls, his life and illusions of a forever kind of love are shattered. He will never get married again.
> 
> *I hope that I am not broken forever although I suspect that I am.
> 
> A couple things that have given me reprieve: I know that this was the best time for this all to happen (financially, professionally, and in my ability to find someone else and have a family). I know that I am in a better position than many - if nothing else, there are no kids in the picture.* But nights like this really do hurt.


Donesies, you will only be broken forever if you choose to be. Pretty normal to feel broken now as your heart has been broken. Just concentrate on your reprieves and this will eventually pass like all bad things.

Remember, you cannot be responsible for her actions, only your own. She is the one truly broken, not you. You will love again.


----------



## MyRevelation

Walloped said:


> T/j -
> 
> MyRevelation - I’m sorry you’re still upset that I called you out on your over generalizations about me, your complete lack of knowledge about me and my situation, and frankly your rude and offensive comments about me and my wife. Oh and that you were taking bets on when I’d commit suicide. Apparently you can only dish it out and not take because, as I recall, you basically called me a poopyhead and ran home to mommy with your tail between your legs. Really, grow up and get over it.
> 
> manfromlamancha - I’m disappointed. We may not have always agreed, but I believe I’ve always treated you with respect. Shame that you couldn’t reciprocate.
> 
> End T/j


I have little use for people who say one thing, while doing something else. That is then compounded when that same person either can't or won't be honest when relaying past events. The above quote is pure spin ... other than us agreeing that we had heated exchange ... your version of that exchange is quite child-like and dishonest. From my perspective, you are exhibiting just another form of SI's self-deception based R where you have reshaped your own reality to where your words and actions aren't in conflict with each other.

Sorry to jack your thread, donesies.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Doc, there are two basic differences between you and spaceghost:

1. He knew that he would never "R". His mother had deserted his family. He had questioned being married in the first place.He had warned his wife that cheating would be a deal breaker. When he found out, he was done, no matter what she did to try for forgiveness.

2. She was about as remorseful as she could be, even to the point of attempting suicide. She would give anything to be back with spaceghost now. You, on the other hand, are dealing with an unremorseful cheater. She doesn't value you. It doesn't seem like she has any real values now.

3. The lesson of spaceghost was that by being strong and decisive, he put himself in control. He made the decision whether to "R" or "D". He didn't let her make the decision. But he doesn't seem happy. Nothing like being betrayed by your wife & your mother. He may never be, but he makes his own decision which road he takes. It wouldn't surprise me if they got back together down the road. Who knows. He is still hurt. He still loves her but he is too proud to take her back. Its a tragedy.

4. You don't come across as arrogant. If you were, this wouldn't hurt so much. You come across as someone who trusted his wife, and she betrayed that trust. That would hurt anyone. Even Jesus Christ was hurt because of the betrayal by his best friends. That may be the lesson of life, as President Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."


----------



## Cynthia

Broken hearts can mend. If you become bitter rather than forgiving, it makes it difficult for your heart to mend. If you forgive and learn from the experience and continue to be loving and surround yourself with loving people, you will mend.


----------



## Walloped

eric1 said:


> Don,
> 
> You are thinking too far ahead. There is no roadmap of how you handle this next part and you have enough variables to contest with at this point anyways.
> 
> The common theme between Walloped and Spaceghost is that they acted decisively. You need to act decisively to setup the next healing steps, whatever they may be. You are doing that now. It is very hard. It is something you must do.
> 
> In terms of your long term healing let’s use W and SG, who diverged at this point. There are so many things to consider but above all what you’re doing is recovery from an abuse cycle. SG has clearly chosen the distance method and W has chosen a different one. Neither are right or wrong.
> 
> Just know that being decisive isn’t impact a future healing decision, it’s setting up healing so that you can make a decision. For every SG who seems a bit bitter there is an ohforanewme (SI), nononsense (SI) or Comer (TAM) who are patented successes. What led to their successes was a distinct realization of their own self-worth. All these things revolving around you in life can be the way that they are, or they do not need to be the way they are. All of those are details that can be changed. Just know that these details are in rotation around you like moons to a planet. YOU are the center of this, focus on what is important.
> 
> Do what makes you happy. If exercising floats your boat - great. If some no-strings sex with a 25 year old from Tinder works for you, roll with it. This is a time for you to be happy and excited that you are alive. It just takes a modest shift of perception to get there.


Absolutely. Fantastic post. 

The action now allows you to make an informed decision for when you are more capable of doing so. Whatever that decision may be. My decision was to R for a variety of reasons (and as much as folks like to think they know those reasons, they do not). But that only works for my situation because only I am me and only my wife is my WS. No one else. I would never presume to tell others what to do based on what I chose to do because we are all unique. However, taking intital steps to get yourself out of infidelity, so you can see the lay of the land clearly, so that you can make good decisions...you bet. Otherwise you’ll flounder like so many others. 

One other piece of advice, if I may, address your feelings and pain. Many BS’s, particularly a BH do not. It’s not masculine or whatever reason. You’ve experienced trauma. Whatever decision you choose, make sure to address this. I have found in conversations with many people past DDay who have divorced or reconciled, that they are not happy. The great majority have not gone through counseling. Those that were happy, did. Of course that’s not a blanket rule, but don’t ignore your pain or it will stay with you. If you D (and by the way, I think you should FWIW), you want to look forward to a new life with a new partner down the road. Be happy. And you can’t be if you’re stuck in the past being bitter about what happened to you. Some people can get there without counseling. Most can’t. 

Again, best of luck.


----------



## Taxman

Slight T/J here, Walloped, this is the first time that I can address you as I am not a member at SI, and only go on to read. You and your wife have my admiration for coming back from this. I hope that your wife is faring better. Please start a thread here. End T/J.

Donesies, Walloped coped with a similar situation to SpaceGhost. Him and his wife are reconciling. It would serve you to see the strength and depth of character displayed by both of these people. Walloped's wife screwed up royally, and when caught, worked diligently to fix what she broke. Nobody would have blamed Walloped if he turned his back on his wife. They are, still in reconciliation, and the marriage may not survive, however, both are working on it. And that is the difference, in both cases, the wife desperately wanted to fix the marriage. In SpaceGhost's case, he could not forgive the physical affair, and she knows she committed the deal-breaker. It has sent her reeling. Walloped's wife just learned the depth of destruction that she caused, and had a similar mental breakdown. 

Donesies, both of these cases, the wayward wife, made honest efforts to repair the damage. Your STBXW is nowhere to be found. Treat her similarly.


----------



## alte Dame

We are unique only insofar as we put our own little individual spin on the commonality of the human experience. This means that all of us here can relate to you, we can predict certain behaviors, but your mileage may vary a bit.

You can look at all the threads you like - they can spur you on or get you down; you can certainly learn from them. They all represent flavors of the human condition. One thing that is not a flavor is the commonality of healing, which the people here are absolutely sure of. We all know that you will stop hurting so much. We all know that you will heal and move on with your life. This is the way of the world; it is common to everyone.

Betrayal is like any other wound, though. It takes time. Experts say that it takes as long as 5 years to recover from infidelity. This is why there are so many long-time readers here telling you that you will be OK, probably even better.

I'm in the camp that thinks you should treat this like any other trauma - death of a loved one, major illness, etc. Our modern society tells us to get therapy as treatment. I believe that therapy for these events can be so very helpful and important. Remember that you don't have to have an organic mental illness to seek therapy. You are treating trauma.

Also, please remember that your being a catch doesn't guarantee anything re the behavior of a broken woman like your WW. It's blowing your mind that she could do this to someone like you, but the A isn't about you. It's about her.

You're posting on this board. bff has weighed in here, I think. Talk to him. He handled his pain with tremendous acumen and grace, in my opinion.


----------



## mary35

Donesies

I just finished reading through your thread, and I am extremely bothered by it, in many respects. The things that bother me the most:

How quickly you chose to end your marriage and moved forward with it. 
How your quick and decisive actions with the divorce may have appeared to your wife that you were in fact 100% done with the marriage and with your wife - and are slamming the door shut and locking it shut no matter what!! 
How little you and your wife seem to have communicated since the one initial confrontation. 
That I get a feeling that you may be willing to explore reconciliation under the right circumstances.
From your posts - it does not appear that you have communicated that possibility to her in any way.

Your posts mention very little interaction with your wife. But your posts also make it appear that you are a man of few words. So maybe you have had more conversations than what it appears in this thread and just don't want to go into them here. Which, of course, is your right to do. 

I understand the advice to act decisively and quickly to try to end the affair and to get a WS out of the fog. If you are indeed sure that you are 100% done with this marriage and with your wife - then stay on the path you are on, because that is where it is going to take you. 

But it you are not sure, which is what some of your posts seem to be saying - than perhaps you need to let her know that the door is still cracked open - and perhaps under the right circumstances you would consider trying to work on the marriage. 

I am not talking about a pick me dance conversation, I'm talking about the kind of conversations AFFAIRCARE's husband had. I would encourage you to go back and read and re-read her post to you. I think she shared some very important messages in there that you may have missed. OR you got them - but deemed them not relevant to you or your situation because you are indeed 100% done and I am reading some of your posts wrong. 

I would hate to see two people end a marriage because they both think that the other spouse is giving them no other choice - when in fact that may not be the actual case. Before you slam this door shut and lock it - maybe an in depth conversation between the two of you would be helpful, perhaps with a professional counselor to help guide it and keep it civil. If for no other reason than to give closure to you both so that you know you are making the right decision.


----------



## wmn1

You are a great poster on both sites, Walloped. Just keep contributing the way you do and if some don't like you, who cares. Just be truthful to yourself and be strong in your convictions.

BTW, I have people who don't like me on both sites too. It doesn't stop me

I agree with you. I too am not Pro-R. 

In this case, I feel OP has been through too much and he needs to get rid of his WW. Greener pastures lie ahead.

I do disagree with one thing though. I don't think anyone has an agenda. I do feel that people would rather be elsewhere. Not thinking about this stuff. I think there is a pro-R crowd and a pro-D crowd. I just feel as though some people feel very strongly either way. They post for the good of the OP.




Walloped said:


> Donesies,
> 
> I don’t really post here as I’m not such a popular guy (as you’ve already seen). I agree with the others who say not to follow what I’ve done. Absolutely. And don’t follow what they did either. There is no manual. You need to find your own path and what works for you. Whether that’s R or D is irrelevant. Personally, and this might surprise folks here at TAM and even at SI, I am NOT pro-R. In fact, 95%+ of the time I believe strongly that D is the best route to take. The only times I think R makes sense is if the WS does the work and is consistent over time.
> 
> Please understand that this is not a game. This is your life and you have to live with your choices. It doesn’t matter how many times you come here and get an “attaboy” from people here, it’s your life and you’re the one who has to live it. Also, understand that while there are many good and wise posters here, there is a vocal minority that have an agenda. D at all costs. That’s fine, they’re entitled to their opinions. My point simply is that this is a massive crapburger that you’re dealing with, but it’s only you that has to deal with it. Take advice, weigh options, consider your course, and do what you think is right. Hold your head up high. And most of all, own your decisions. No one else will.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck.
> 
> T/j -
> 
> MyRevelation - I’m sorry you’re still upset that I called you out on your over generalizations about me, your complete lack of knowledge about me and my situation, and frankly your rude and offensive comments about me and my wife. Oh and that you were taking bets on when I’d commit suicide. Apparently you can only dish it out and not take because, as I recall, you basically called me a poopyhead and ran home to mommy with your tail between your legs. Really, grow up and get over it.
> 
> manfromlamancha - I’m disappointed. We may not have always agreed, but I believe I’ve always treated you with respect. Shame that you couldn’t reciprocate.
> 
> End T/j


----------



## ButtPunch

mary35 said:


> Donesies
> 
> I just finished reading through your thread, and I am extremely bothered by it, in many respects. The things that bother me the most:
> 
> How quickly you chose to end your marriage and moved forward with it.
> How your quick and decisive actions with the divorce may have appeared to your wife that you were in fact 100% done with the marriage and with your wife - and are slamming the door shut and locking it shut no matter what!!
> How little you and your wife seem to have communicated since the one initial confrontation.
> That I get a feeling that you may be willing to explore reconciliation under the right circumstances.
> From your posts - it does not appear that you have communicated that possibility to her in any way.
> 
> Your posts mention very little interaction with your wife. But your posts also make it appear that you are a man of few words. So maybe you have had more conversations than what it appears in this thread and just don't want to go into them here. Which, of course, is your right to do.
> 
> I understand the advice to act decisively and quickly to try to end the affair and to get a WS out of the fog. If you are indeed sure that you are 100% done with this marriage and with your wife - then stay on the path you are on, because that is where it is going to take you.
> 
> But it you are not sure, which is what some of your posts seem to be saying - than perhaps you need to let her know that the door is still cracked open - and perhaps under the right circumstances you would consider trying to work on the marriage.
> 
> I am not talking about a pick me dance conversation, I'm talking about the kind of conversations AFFAIRCARE's husband had. I would encourage you to go back and read and re-read her post to you. I think she shared some very important messages in there that you may have missed. OR you got them - but deemed them not relevant to you or your situation because you are indeed 100% done and I am reading some of your posts wrong.
> 
> I would hate to see two people end a marriage because they both think that the other spouse is giving them no other choice - when in fact that may not be the actual case. Before you slam this door shut and lock it - maybe an in depth conversation between the two of you would be helpful, perhaps with a professional counselor to help guide it and keep it civil. If for no other reason than to give closure to you both so that you know you are making the right decision.


ummm....I don't think so

He had this conversation with her and it went like this




donesies said:


> Well last night was one I’ll never forget. I went home and faced the music. She was there waiting to talk.
> 
> She asked why I had filed and I explained that it was because of her infidelity. She tried to deny it, but then I produced her journal. She then admitted to loving him. I asked why she wanted to throw her marriage away over some fat, broke, married guy with 3 kids. She said our marriage was dead a long time ago.
> 
> She then tried to force herself into the moral high ground by telling me what a scumbag I was for reading her private journal. Said she could never trust me again and demanded that I erase all journal pictures on my phone. She then left in a huff because of that.
> 
> No real closure and it was quite unsatisfying. She honestly didn’t seem that resistant to a divorce.



She spit in his face.

Don't you dare reach out to this remorseless cheater.

Then, when the OM dumped her, she has now latched on to the next sap.

I know it hurts but good riddance.

She is broken and selfish. Neither are something you can fix.

Go find a woman who can give you the love and family you deserve.


----------



## wmn1

ButtPunch said:


> ummm....I don't think so
> 
> He had this conversation with her and it went like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amen !!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> She spit in his face.
> 
> Don't you dare reach out to this remorseless cheater.
> 
> Then, when the OM dumped her, she has now latched on to the next sap.
> 
> I know it hurts but good riddance.
> 
> She is broken and selfish. Neither are something you can fix.
> 
> Go find a woman who can give you the love and family you deserve.


----------



## Cynthia

I am baffled by any talk of reconciliation on this thread. She has shown zero remorse. Like @ButtPunch said, she has thrown it back in his face rather than trying to make amends. She is a remorseless cheater who hasn't even reached out to apologize let alone repent and ask for forgiveness and a second chance. Chasing after such a person is not only an exercise in futility, it's foolish. It's wanting to take the fox back into the chicken coop. The woman has no shame or remorse. Why would anyone here even consider suggesting he think about reconciliation? It makes no sense.


----------



## badmemory

mary35 said:


> But it you are not sure, which is what some of your posts seem to be saying - than perhaps you need to *let her know that the door is still cracked open - and perhaps under the right circumstances you would consider trying to work on the marriage.*


I'm sure OP might have "considered" R if his stone cold WW have given him any reason to. But she hasn't. While he in fact, hasn't done anything to make her think the door has shut permanently. If she wanted a chance to save the marriage she'd act like it. And unless that ever happens, he needs to "let her know" *nothing*.


----------



## wmn1

CynthiaDe said:


> I am baffled by any talk of reconciliation on this thread. She has shown zero remorse. Like @ButtPunch said, she has thrown it back in his face rather than trying to make amends. She is a remorseless cheater who hasn't even reached out to apologize let alone repent and ask for forgiveness and a second chance. Chasing after such a person is not only an exercise in futility, it's foolish. It's wanting to take the fox back into the chicken coop. The woman has no shame or remorse. Why would anyone here even consider suggesting he think about reconciliation? It makes no sense.


agreed completely


----------



## bandit.45

This WW is one of the most hardened and detached I've ever run across. If I am understanding donesies right, she has not contacted him AT ALL since the divorce agreement was signed. Y'all know how unusual that is?

Usually even the meanest and most unrepentant waywards have to get their ego stroked by texting or calling the BS from time to time to see if the BS still has any feelings for them. Not this one.


----------



## badmemory

bandit.45 said:


> Usually even the meanest and most unrepentant waywards have to get their ego stroked by texting or calling the BS from time to time to see if the BS still has any feelings for them. Not this one.


And the last he needs to do, as bad as he's hurting now, is to show her the door is open and then get summarily rejected. 

Even if she was willing to come back - if he made the first move to facilitate it, he'd regret that decision if they did try to R. Always knowing that she wasn't contrite or remorseful enough to do it herself.


----------



## wilson

From outside your situation, it's easy to see why you want to get back with her. Your brain is hurting and looking for a solution--any solution--to remove the pain. It doesn't care about the long-term consequences, it just wants the pain gone. Some people in your situation turn to alcohol and/or drugs as a way to cope. You just have to be strong and let the conscious part of your brain make sure you make the right choices. Before you know it, you'll be in a better place and be able to clearly see how foolish it would have been to get back with her.

Based on how you've been talking, I think you're really at risk of connecting back with her. I would ask you to think of her like heroin and you're a recovering addict. Avoid all contact with her and avoid places where you might come in contact with her. You're too vulnerable now and it would be all too easy to make poor choices. You also need to really get over her so you're not caring a torch for her in the future. You need to put as much emotional distance between you and her as you can.


----------



## badmemory

wilson said:


> From outside your situation, it's easy to see why you want to get back with her. Your brain is hurting and looking for a solution--any solution--to remove the pain. It doesn't care about the long-term consequences, it just wants the pain gone.


Spot on.

Stay the course.


----------



## donesies

mary35 said:


> Donesies
> 
> I just finished reading through your thread, and I am extremely bothered by it, in many respects. The things that bother me the most:
> 
> How quickly you chose to end your marriage and moved forward with it.
> How your quick and decisive actions with the divorce may have appeared to your wife that you were in fact 100% done with the marriage and with your wife - and are slamming the door shut and locking it shut no matter what!!
> How little you and your wife seem to have communicated since the one initial confrontation.
> That I get a feeling that you may be willing to explore reconciliation under the right circumstances.
> From your posts - it does not appear that you have communicated that possibility to her in any way.
> 
> Your posts mention very little interaction with your wife. But your posts also make it appear that you are a man of few words. So maybe you have had more conversations than what it appears in this thread and just don't want to go into them here. Which, of course,  is your right to do.
> 
> I understand the advice to act decisively and quickly to try to end the affair and to get a WS out of the fog. If you are indeed sure that you are 100% done with this marriage and with your wife - then stay on the path you are on, because that is where it is going to take you.
> 
> But it you are not sure, which is what some of your posts seem to be saying - than perhaps you need to let her know that the door is still cracked open - and perhaps under the right circumstances you would consider trying to work on the marriage.
> 
> I am not talking about a pick me dance conversation, I'm talking about the kind of conversations AFFAIRCARE's husband had. I would encourage you to go back and read and re-read her post to you. I think she shared some very important messages in there that you may have missed. OR you got them - but deemed them not relevant to you or your situation because you are indeed 100% done and I am reading some of your posts wrong.
> 
> I would hate to see two people end a marriage because they both think that the other spouse is giving them no other choice - when in fact that may not be the actual case. Before you slam this door shut and lock it - maybe an in depth conversation between the two of you would be helpful, perhaps with a professional counselor to help guide it and keep it civil. If for no other reason than to give closure to you both so that you know you are making the right decision.


SHE KNOWS she can reach out and I will be receptive. She has chosen not to.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> This WW is one of the most hardened and detached I've ever run across. If I am understanding donesies right, she has not contacted him AT ALL since the divorce agreement was signed. Y'all know how unusual that is?
> 
> Usually even the meanest and most unrepentant waywards have to get their ego stroked by texting or calling the BS from time to time to see if the BS still has any feelings for them. Not this one.


Actually she did - she told me to pay some bills


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Actually she did - she told me to pay some bills


Are they hers or yours?


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually she did - she told me to pay some bills
> 
> 
> 
> Are they hers or yours?
Click to expand...

They are ones I agreed to take on as part of the divorce agreement


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> They are ones I agreed to take on as part of the divorce agreement


Next time she calls, ignore it and let it go to voicemail. Then answer her with a text or e-mail only. No more talking to her. You need to start detaching.


----------



## [email protected]

Thank God, you will soon be rid of this witch. I was worried for a while.


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> SHE KNOWS she can reach out and I will be receptive. She has chosen not to.


Oh dear! The last thing you need is to get back with her. If you do, she will continue to cheat throughout your marriage. Ask @Cromer about the stress of having to DNA your kids.


----------



## Walloped

bandit.45 said:


> Next time she calls, ignore it and let it go to voicemail. Then answer her with a text or e-mail only. No more talking to her. You need to start detaching.


I can’t believe I’m saying this but I agree with bandit.45. 

Oh God. I just threw up a bit in my mouth. 

I’m joking! 

Seriously, he’s right. It’s not about doing anything punitive or against her. Detaching is for you. There’s too much drama and she’s going to keep sucking you into it. The goal is to get your brain working, your emotions in check and you on the path towards getting healthier. Detaching helps tremendously. Talk only when you absolutely must (hint - her telling you to pay bills is not one of those times). You each have an attorney? Defer calls to him. Otherwise voicemail and text only.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this whole mess...
> 
> I am hurt about her going crazy and moving out, changing her name back, and separating our accounts and our lives in every way. I am angry that she cared so little for us that she would just unplug like this. It's so hard to understand.
> 
> I'm not an ultra-wealthy business magnate or real estate mogul, but I am successful and smart. In my mid-sized community, I am probably the top earner at my age - definitely top 5. I am also good-looking and turn heads everywhere I go - and that's before they find out I'm a doctor. I am well-loved in the community and I represent myself and my practice well. Although you all think I'm arrogant, I don't come across that way in my regular social circles.
> 
> I received a PM to read a thread by a guy named spaceghost from survivinginfidelity and I spent hours combing through it. The guy acted quickly and decisively like me, but ultimately had no reconciliation and 3 years later doesn't seem super happy. He is still hurt although he has dated and found some great girls, his life and illusions of a forever kind of love are shattered. He will never get married again.
> 
> I hope that I am not broken forever although I suspect that I am.
> 
> A couple things that have given me reprieve: I know that this was the best time for this all to happen (financially, professionally, and in my ability to find someone else and have a family). I know that I am in a better position than many - if nothing else, there are no kids in the picture. But nights like this really do hurt.


This is normal, and it's going to happen now and then for some time. Honestly, it's probably going to happen for the rest of your life, but the incidence will become less and less. I'm almost nine years out from discovering my ex's affair, and my initial confusion, hurt, and anger have settled into a vague disappointment that flares up every now and then.

My ex is the one who is broken, not me. Much retrospective analysis has taught me that my ex is the kind of person who prefers for others to do the heavy lifting in life. The qualities I have, that permitted my ex to manipulate me and lie to me and use me, are good ones; I'm smart, hard-working, loyal, patient, and believe the best of people. My ex took advantage of that about me, and then sought someone else out to double-dip the benefits, and maintained that as long as possible until I clued in, and then tried to adapt it to continue after I did so. It took me months after that to figure out that my ex was not going to have a magical epiphany and suddenly transform into the person I thought I had been married to all along. It was a terrible time, and I'm glad those aren't your circumstances. Experiences like that are why most people here jump right to recommending divorce instead of reconciliation. It takes a RARE cheater to have that magical epiphany, and we can already tell you don't have one by her behaviour.

You were never broken, and you aren't now, so you will recover. Your dreams and plans for the future have been veered off their original course, but that happens in life. She broke your previous life plan, but she hasn't broken you. It's also a pretty clean break, all things considered. You just need to apply the right treatment and heal, and then you can make a new plan. I suspect that since you are avoiding the ongoing pain of false reconciliation, seem to be avoiding a drawn out court battle, and have no children to keep you linked for years and years, that your recovery may be easier than that of many others here.

You will get to a point where you can look back and see where your ex's behaviour gave you clues to her true nature that you missed completely, or overlooked in your rose-coloured glasses about her. Even when I'm not looking for them, I'll read an article or report about something, or even a post here, and still get little flashes of insight now and then that explain things going back decades.

The best thing to do to help yourself heal is to start making your new life plan. Find hobbies or activities that you gave up in the past because they didn't work with your relationship, and get back to them. Explore a new hobby you always wanted to try but didn't prioritize before. Spend time with your family and friends who genuinely have your back, and be open to meeting new ones. Be YOU for a while; don't go looking to find a new partner in a hurry, just get to know yourself as an individual again.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Hopeful Cynic said:


> This is normal, and it's going to happen now and then for some time. Honestly, it's probably going to happen for the rest of your life, but the incidence will become less and less. I'm almost nine years out from discovering my ex's affair, and my initial confusion, hurt, and anger have settled into a vague disappointment that flares up every now and then.
> 
> My ex is the one who is broken, not me. Much retrospective analysis has taught me that my ex is the kind of person who prefers for others to do the heavy lifting in life. The qualities I have, that permitted my ex to manipulate me and lie to me and use me, are good ones; I'm smart, hard-working, loyal, patient, and believe the best of people. My ex too advantage of that about me, and then sought someone else out to double-dip the benefits, and maintained that as long as possible until I clued in, and then tried to adapt it to continue after I did so. It took me months after that to figure out that my ex was not going to have a magical epiphany and suddenly transform into the person I thought I had been married to all along. It was a terrible time, and I'm glad those aren't your circumstances. Experiences like that are why most people here jump right to recommending divorce instead of reconciliation. It takes a RARE cheater to have that magical epiphany, and we can already tell you don't have one by her behaviour.
> 
> You were never broken, and you aren't now, so you will recover. Your dreams and plans for the future have been veered off their original course, but that happens in life. She broke your previous life plan, but she hasn't broken you. It's also a pretty clean break, all things considered. You just need to apply the right treatment and heal, and then you can make a new plan. I suspect that since you are avoiding the ongoing pain of false reconciliation, seem to be avoiding a drawn out court battle, and have no children to keep you linked for years and years, that your recovery may be easier than that of many others here.
> 
> You will get to a point where you can look back and see where your ex's behaviour gave you clues to her true nature that you missed completely, or overlooked in your rose-coloured glasses about her. Even when I'm not looking for them, I'll read an article or report about something, or even a post here, and still get little flashes of insight now and then that explain things going back decades.
> 
> The best thing to do to help yourself heal is to start making your new life plan. Find hobbies or activities that you gave up in the past because they didn't work with your relationship, and get back to them. Explore a new hobby you always wanted to try but didn't prioritize before. Spend time with your family and friends who genuinely have your back, and be open to meeting new ones. Be YOU for a while; don't go looking to find a new partner in a hurry, just get to know yourself as an individual again.


Beautifully put!


----------



## Taxman

Donesies, I think that in this situation, tell your ex that her next communication should be through your legal counsel. This is one hard edged bi+ch, and she is likely pissed at the life she fuçked up and walked away from without so much as a how do you do. So the next Mrs. Donesies is going to reap all the benefit, while her whøring butt is jumping from dlck to dlck. She could have had a great life with you, could have had it all, all she had to do was to keep her legs shut for anyone other than you. Since she could not manage this simple act, she has lost you. Good. She never deserved you. Let her see you and the next Mrs. Donesies walking behind a baby carriage, and putting your child seat into your new Mercedes. That kind of has a way of fuçking with her head. She walked away without a fight, showing the depth of her guilt, and the shallowness of her character. You are well rid of this.


----------



## ABHale

Read - Between a rock and a hard place in the private section of TAM.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> SHE KNOWS she can reach out and I will be receptive. She has chosen not to.


How does she know that you are receptive?

I don't remember reading this.

That's not a good thing.


----------



## Townes

All those qualities in yourself that make it so hard for you to believe that she would dump you for this loser are the same ones that would make it impossible for you to respect yourself if you took her back. You would say to yourself I'm a winner. I'm handsome, successful, driven, fit...and a cuckold. I think a part of you would always hate yourself for being weak. You just overcame a terminal disease doc. Don't reinfect yourself with it.


----------



## Edmund

My wild ass theory again. Could be totally wrong, but whatever.

The failed pregnancies left Donese wife feeling like her life had no purpose. She could no longer be content living in the shadow of his success. She felt like a kept woman, a trophy wife for a rich man. All she wanted was someone at her level, not way above. They did not see each other or communicate enough, and the marriage was dead for her. He thought giving her freedom to do whatever, and a lot of money, would make her happy.

Then she met the young guy with the 50k salary that she is now dating and fell for him.

So she hatched a detailed plan to get Donesies to file for divorce so she could get rid of Donesies to be with the new guy:

1) She enlisted the help of the married fat guy (and his wife) with several children... he(they) agreed to be a fictitious OM that she was supposedly cheating with. She knew she could deny the story later and nobody would believe she was cheating with fat guy because he is happily married with a family and hasn't got a lot of money. She could say Doneses went crazy and she never cheated with anyone much less fat guy.

2) She wrote a journal with a bunch of total fiction about how she loved fat guy, how great sex with him is, blah blah blah.

3) She launched the plan by deliberately leaving the journal where Donesis would find it, and as a touch of mean-spirited irony, did so on Valentines Day, so that that holiday would bring up bad memories for Donesis the rest of his life. She maybe did not know Donesis would come early that day, but she would have made some excuse to come home late in order to allow him time to find it.

4) Fat guy and his wife were prepared to deny the whole thing ("what, are you crazy, I (my husband) would never do that!").

5) When Donesis discovered the journal and read it (as she planned), she was surprised (and probably delighted) that he moved so fast to file for divorce. She feigned sorrow initially with the why why why, couldn't we talk first, not knowing how sure he was of her supposed infidelity and going through with it.

6) She met with Donesis one last time to "admit" that all the fictitious stuff in the journal was "true", that she was in love with fat guy, had sex with him etc. to reinforce Donesis reaction and determination to divorce.

7) She tried to get the journal back, not knowing that Donesis is getting advice from TAM folks to hang onto that for dear life. She figured if she got a hold of it, Donesis would have no evidence to back up his "crazy" accusations of infidelity (to make it even more unlikely anyone would believe him). Knowing they would be at the same social circles in the future, she wanted to be able to say Donesies dumped her because he thought she was having an affair with fat guy which never happened. Fat guy and his wife would back her up that it never happened. (Because it never did happen.)

8) She quickly accepted the "low-ball" offer and bought a new car without worrying about money because she knew that new 50k guy was waiting in the wings. Her story to everyone now will be that she met new guy after the divorce was entered (albeit before it is final).

Results:
- Neither fat guy nor his wife were upset when Donsies "exposed" because they're in on the plan. They will maintain a no-comment status.
- Donsies' STBXW will explain that "Donesies filed for divorce without even talking to her first because of a misunderstanding of her friendship with fat guy in the club. She was shocked!"
- Donsies STBXW got a chunk of money (maybe 5 cents to Donsies, but a lot to her, enough to buy a car) plus alimony for some years. That plus new 50k guy's income will be enough for a comfortable life for them.
- Donesis is now regretting hastily filing for divorce but the final outcome would have been the same if he waited to act, but with even more pain. Somehow, he didn't realize his wife had fallen completely out of love with him and into love with someone else over the last year.

Of course I could be all wrong about this as usual.


----------



## Suspicious1

bandit.45 said:


> This WW is one of the most hardened and detached I've ever run across. If I am understanding donesies right, she has not contacted him AT ALL since the divorce agreement was signed. Y'all know how unusual that is?
> 
> Usually even the meanest and most unrepentant waywards have to get their ego stroked by texting or calling the BS from time to time to see if the BS still has any feelings for them. Not this one.


Tell me about, Donesies might not realise it at the moment but this detachment is a gift from her.

Having someone who has betray you and in your face is definitely cruel and harsh.

Give me an absent WWS any day.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## sandcastle

Edmund said:


> My wild ass theory again. Could be totally wrong, but whatever.
> 
> The failed pregnancies left Donese wife feeling like her life had no purpose. She could no longer be content living in the shadow of his success. She felt like a kept woman, a trophy wife for a rich man. All she wanted was someone at her level, not way above. They did not see each other or communicate enough, and the marriage was dead for her. He thought giving her freedom to do whatever, and a lot of money, would make her happy.
> 
> Then she met the young guy with the 50k salary that she is now dating and fell for him.
> 
> So she hatched a detailed plan to get Donesies to file for divorce so she could get rid of Donesies to be with the new guy:
> 
> 1) She enlisted the help of the married fat guy (and his wife) with several children... he(they) agreed to be a fictitious OM that she was supposedly cheating with. She knew she could deny the story later and nobody would believe she was cheating with fat guy because he is happily married with a family and hasn't got a lot of money. She could say Doneses went crazy and she never cheated with anyone much less fat guy.
> 
> 2) She wrote a journal with a bunch of total fiction about how she loved fat guy, how great sex with him is, blah blah blah.
> 
> 3) She launched the plan by deliberately leaving the journal where Donesis would find it, and as a touch of mean-spirited irony, did so on Valentines Day, so that that holiday would bring up bad memories for Donesis the rest of his life. She maybe did not know Donesis would come early that day, but she would have made some excuse to come home late in order to allow him time to find it.
> 
> 4) Fat guy and his wife were prepared to deny the whole thing ("what, are you crazy, I (my husband) would never do that!").
> 
> 5) When Donesis discovered the journal and read it (as she planned), she was surprised (and probably delighted) that he moved so fast to file for divorce. She feigned sorrow initially with the why why why, couldn't we talk first, not knowing how sure he was of her supposed infidelity and going through with it.
> 
> 6) She met with Donesis one last time to "admit" that all the fictitious stuff in the journal was "true", that she was in love with fat guy, had sex with him etc. to reinforce Donesis reaction and determination to divorce.
> 
> 7) She tried to get the journal back, not knowing that Donesis is getting advice from TAM folks to hang onto that for dear life. She figured if she got a hold of it, Donesis would have no evidence to back up his "crazy" accusations of infidelity (to make it even more unlikely anyone would believe him). Knowing they would be at the same social circles in the future, she wanted to be able to say Donesies dumped her because he thought she was having an affair with fat guy which never happened. Fat guy and his wife would back her up that it never happened. (Because it never did happen.)
> 
> 8) She quickly accepted the "low-ball" offer and bought a new car without worrying about money because she knew that new 50k guy was waiting in the wings. Her story to everyone now will be that she met new guy after the divorce was entered (albeit before it is final).
> 
> Results:
> - Neither fat guy nor his wife were upset when Donsies "exposed" because they're in on the plan. They will maintain a no-comment status.
> - Donsies' STBXW will explain that "Donesies filed for divorce without even talking to her first because of a misunderstanding of her friendship with fat guy in the club. She was shocked!"
> - Donsies STBXW got a chunk of money (maybe 5 cents to Donsies, but a lot to her, enough to buy a car) plus alimony for some years. That plus new 50k guy's income will be enough for a comfortable life for them.
> - Donesis is now regretting hastily filing for divorce but the final outcome would have been the same if he waited to act, but with even more pain. Somehow, he didn't realize his wife had fallen completely out of love with him and into love with someone else over the last year.
> 
> Of course I could be all wrong about this as usual.


Yabutt - no Judge cares.

Not a one.

So- she goes to all these fantastical lengths to settle for 5 cents on the dollar?

This just does not add up.

Gold diggers will dig for gold.


----------



## eric1

Don,

I wrote my last post in the airport and during the flight I thought of an important thing that I did not include.

You are abuse victim. Abuse victims are traumatized because of things happening _to_ you. The way you change from a victimhood mentality to an assertive, powerful one is to do things _for_ you.

How do you do things? I don’t mean just infidelity, I mean I’m every day life. You do things by being effective. Right now you’re in semi-stasis because you are kind of chasing a result with little chance of success. What you need to do is truly step back and assess in as logical manner as possible what makes you (and only you) happy. Use IC, friends, family for this.

Listen, she’s made her decision so that’s a result that you cannot chase. You’re chasing a result that likely will not come about. So not only are you feeling like crap (as an abuse victim) but you are feeling helpless and pathetic because nothing you do is moving forward.

You need to move forward. To use our analogies, SG did it by divorcing, W did it by committing to R. As we saw, W has acknowledged that he could have been wrong, and so has SG in his own fashion. But they moved...that’s the critical part. Nothing that you do today can’t be undone if it’s meant to be.

Honestly if I were you I’d tell the world to F off, get in my car and drive as far as I could in four days. Stop when I felt like stopping. Ate as much crap road food as I could. 

The point is to start focusing on yourself. It’s not selfish.

(I lied above... I’d stay home and find a hot 22 year old blond with daddy issues  )


----------



## donesies

ButtPunch said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> SHE KNOWS she can reach out and I will be receptive. She has chosen not to.
> 
> 
> 
> How does she know that you are receptive?
> 
> I don't remember reading this.
> 
> That's not a good thing.
Click to expand...

Well OK. I don’t know for a fact that she knows this, but I wasn’t completely able to hide my hurt when I confronted her about the journal. I’m not a robot. Yes, I know it is not good.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Edmund said:


> My wild ass theory again. Could be totally wrong, but whatever.
> 
> The failed pregnancies left Donese wife feeling like her life had no purpose. She could no longer be content living in the shadow of his success. She felt like a kept woman, a trophy wife for a rich man. All she wanted was someone at her level, not way above. They did not see each other or communicate enough, and the marriage was dead for her. He thought giving her freedom to do whatever, and a lot of money, would make her happy.
> 
> Then she met the young guy with the 50k salary that she is now dating and fell for him.
> 
> So she hatched a detailed plan to get Donesies to file for divorce so she could get rid of Donesies to be with the new guy:
> 
> 1) She enlisted the help of the married fat guy (and his wife) with several children... he(they) agreed to be a fictitious OM that she was supposedly cheating with. She knew she could deny the story later and nobody would believe she was cheating with fat guy because he is happily married with a family and hasn't got a lot of money. She could say Doneses went crazy and she never cheated with anyone much less fat guy.
> 
> 2) She wrote a journal with a bunch of total fiction about how she loved fat guy, how great sex with him is, blah blah blah.
> 
> 3) She launched the plan by deliberately leaving the journal where Donesis would find it, and as a touch of mean-spirited irony, did so on Valentines Day, so that that holiday would bring up bad memories for Donesis the rest of his life. She maybe did not know Donesis would come early that day, but she would have made some excuse to come home late in order to allow him time to find it.
> 
> 4) Fat guy and his wife were prepared to deny the whole thing ("what, are you crazy, I (my husband) would never do that!").
> 
> 5) When Donesis discovered the journal and read it (as she planned), she was surprised (and probably delighted) that he moved so fast to file for divorce. She feigned sorrow initially with the why why why, couldn't we talk first, not knowing how sure he was of her supposed infidelity and going through with it.
> 
> 6) She met with Donesis one last time to "admit" that all the fictitious stuff in the journal was "true", that she was in love with fat guy, had sex with him etc. to reinforce Donesis reaction and determination to divorce.
> 
> 7) She tried to get the journal back, not knowing that Donesis is getting advice from TAM folks to hang onto that for dear life. She figured if she got a hold of it, Donesis would have no evidence to back up his "crazy" accusations of infidelity (to make it even more unlikely anyone would believe him). Knowing they would be at the same social circles in the future, she wanted to be able to say Donesies dumped her because he thought she was having an affair with fat guy which never happened. Fat guy and his wife would back her up that it never happened. (Because it never did happen.)
> 
> 8) She quickly accepted the "low-ball" offer and bought a new car without worrying about money because she knew that new 50k guy was waiting in the wings. Her story to everyone now will be that she met new guy after the divorce was entered (albeit before it is final).
> 
> Results:
> - Neither fat guy nor his wife were upset when Donsies "exposed" because they're in on the plan. They will maintain a no-comment status.
> - Donsies' STBXW will explain that "Donesies filed for divorce without even talking to her first because of a misunderstanding of her friendship with fat guy in the club. She was shocked!"
> - Donsies STBXW got a chunk of money (maybe 5 cents to Donsies, but a lot to her, enough to buy a car) plus alimony for some years. That plus new 50k guy's income will be enough for a comfortable life for them.
> - Donesis is now regretting hastily filing for divorce but the final outcome would have been the same if he waited to act, but with even more pain. Somehow, he didn't realize his wife had fallen completely out of love with him and into love with someone else over the last year.
> 
> Of course I could be all wrong about this as usual.


Never attribute to cunning what could be more easily explained by stupidity, cowardice or laziness.


----------



## mary35

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Never attribute to cunning what could be more easily explained by stupidity, cowardice or laziness.


or being broken!!!


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> Well OK. I don’t know for a fact that she knows this, but I wasn’t completely able to hide my hurt when I confronted her about the journal. I’m not a robot. Yes, I know it is not good.


If this is why you think she knows, you are wrong. She likely saw this for what it was. A reaction to betrayal. No one expects you to lack emotion or be a robot.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Well OK. I don’t know for a fact that she knows this, but I wasn’t completely able to hide my hurt when I confronted her about the journal. I’m not a robot. Yes, I know it is not good.


Pretty human of you to be hurt on V day reading that journal being that particular day and unawares and all.


----------



## skerzoid

This thread seems to be cycling through the same same issues with the same responses over and over. Where are we today?

1. Mrs. Donesies seemed to change with the discovery that she hadn't the ability to have children.

2. She then felt as though she were a failure. 

3. This seemed to change her into someone who wanted a total change in life. She throws herself in to her Club and meets Fatboy. This leads to the affair.

4. Donesies then discovers her affair. He comes here for advice. He is advised to file without warning.

5. Donesies then files for divorce and has her served.

6. They speak at home. She at first denies, then when shown copies of her journal, becomes enraged,
never to be seen again.

7. Donesies was hopeful that the shock of being served would lead to her becoming remorseful. No Dice. Mrs. Donesies accepts the lowball offer, rents an apartment, buys a new car, and begins her new life. 

8. Donesies is left wondering if he made a mistake. He considers contacting her. He is advised not to do 
this by 95% of the posters on here.

9. He is advised to contact the OBS. He does. No response.

10.Now Mrs. Donesies is seen with a new man. This seems to signal that her original affair with Fatboy has
ended possibly because the OBS acted on Donesies contact.

11.Donesies starts to get criticisms on his actions by doubters who seem to feel that he is not such a good 
husband, seemingly arrogant, cold, and distant. Questions are asked & accusations made. 

12.Donesies has nagging doubts whether he made a mistake in moving on so quickly.

13.Thread jacking occurs over and over.

14.Donesies now has to be questioning what the hell is going on.

15.Folks, I think Donesies has received excellent advice from many posters. Keep up the good work, but
lets stop with the thread jacking and get on with helping Donesies. He is a good man who has been fed
a **** sandwich. Lets focus on healing and recovery for the good doctor. Just saying'.


----------



## mary35

donesies said:


> Well OK. I don’t know for a fact that she knows this, but I wasn’t completely able to hide my hurt when I confronted her about the journal. I’m not a robot. Yes, I know it is not good.


HHMMM! I am confused - What's not good? 

I know I am in the minority here - actually, it appears I am the only one offering this opinion. Just keep in mind, we are all offering our opinion from what very little we know about you and your marriage. From what you say, she appears to be an unrepentant cheater. That's all some need to hear. Gavel falls - judgement pronounced - ditch the *****! Personally, I have to wonder if its possible she is way more broken and resigned than unrepentant But you would know that better than anyone here!

You started this thread on February 15, 2018 - one day after Dday. Here it is, March 22, 2018. A little over ONE MONTH since you found out about her infidelity. That's not even enough time to process your emotions and deal with the shock of it all in my opinion. But maybe cheating is a deal breaker for you and you know instinctively that you now can't stay married to her, no matter what. If that's the case, then maybe it is better to get this over and done with as quickly as possible. Maybe this quick decisive action is necessary for you to get on with healing from her devastating and cruel betrayal and the wounds it has inflicted on you. If all this is true - then, I agree with the others - stay the course.

As I tried to explain - I am bothered by what has not been said, more so than what has been said. Many others have acknowledged that her quick acceptance behavior is not normal for most cheaters. Some seem to think that makes her an even more evil human being. Maybe they are right - but then again, maybe they are wrong. Only you would know if this behavior would be typical from her. 

Would it make a difference to you if you found out that all of this happened because she doesn't feel like she is good enough for you or worthy of your marriage because of the infertility issue? I am not saying that is the case, but it is a thought that crossed my mind and I think someone else also broached this idea. I am curious to know if you knew this was the case would make a difference in your response to her adultery and would you still have chosen the divorce route so quickly? If you found out that was the case now - would you stay the course?

I still am compelled to stand by my advice that I gave before: 

If you are done - then you are done - stay the course, lock the door, and go forward on your healing path. And I wish you well and truly hope you find someone you can be delirious in love with and happily married ever after to. 

If you have any doubts about being done though, maybe you should at least consider the idea of slowing down a bit to process your feelings with your counselor a little more. Having said that, I don't even know if that is an option now. She may be as done as everyone seems to think she is or as broken as I think she might be or both, and wont let things be slowed down at this point. If you decide to try to slow things down a bit - just prepare yourself for her not allowing it.


----------



## donesies

Edmund said:


> My wild ass theory again. Could be totally wrong, but whatever.
> 
> The failed pregnancies left Donese wife feeling like her life had no purpose. She could no longer be content living in the shadow of his success. She felt like a kept woman, a trophy wife for a rich man. All she wanted was someone at her level, not way above. They did not see each other or communicate enough, and the marriage was dead for her. He thought giving her freedom to do whatever, and a lot of money, would make her happy.
> 
> Then she met the young guy with the 50k salary that she is now dating and fell for him.
> 
> So she hatched a detailed plan to get Donesies to file for divorce so she could get rid of Donesies to be with the new guy:
> 
> 1) She enlisted the help of the married fat guy (and his wife) with several children... he(they) agreed to be a fictitious OM that she was supposedly cheating with. She knew she could deny the story later and nobody would believe she was cheating with fat guy because he is happily married with a family and hasn't got a lot of money. She could say Doneses went crazy and she never cheated with anyone much less fat guy.
> 
> 2) She wrote a journal with a bunch of total fiction about how she loved fat guy, how great sex with him is, blah blah blah.
> 
> 3) She launched the plan by deliberately leaving the journal where Donesis would find it, and as a touch of mean-spirited irony, did so on Valentines Day, so that that holiday would bring up bad memories for Donesis the rest of his life. She maybe did not know Donesis would come early that day, but she would have made some excuse to come home late in order to allow him time to find it.
> 
> 4) Fat guy and his wife were prepared to deny the whole thing ("what, are you crazy, I (my husband) would never do that!").
> 
> 5) When Donesis discovered the journal and read it (as she planned), she was surprised (and probably delighted) that he moved so fast to file for divorce. She feigned sorrow initially with the why why why, couldn't we talk first, not knowing how sure he was of her supposed infidelity and going through with it.
> 
> 6) She met with Donesis one last time to "admit" that all the fictitious stuff in the journal was "true", that she was in love with fat guy, had sex with him etc. to reinforce Donesis reaction and determination to divorce.
> 
> 7) She tried to get the journal back, not knowing that Donesis is getting advice from TAM folks to hang onto that for dear life. She figured if she got a hold of it, Donesis would have no evidence to back up his "crazy" accusations of infidelity (to make it even more unlikely anyone would believe him). Knowing they would be at the same social circles in the future, she wanted to be able to say Donesies dumped her because he thought she was having an affair with fat guy which never happened. Fat guy and his wife would back her up that it never happened. (Because it never did happen.)
> 
> 8) She quickly accepted the "low-ball" offer and bought a new car without worrying about money because she knew that new 50k guy was waiting in the wings. Her story to everyone now will be that she met new guy after the divorce was entered (albeit before it is final).
> 
> Results:
> - Neither fat guy nor his wife were upset when Donsies "exposed" because they're in on the plan. They will maintain a no-comment status.
> - Donsies' STBXW will explain that "Donesies filed for divorce without even talking to her first because of a misunderstanding of her friendship with fat guy in the club. She was shocked!"
> - Donsies STBXW got a chunk of money (maybe 5 cents to Donsies, but a lot to her, enough to buy a car) plus alimony for some years. That plus new 50k guy's income will be enough for a comfortable life for them.
> - Donesis is now regretting hastily filing for divorce but the final outcome would have been the same if he waited to act, but with even more pain. Somehow, he didn't realize his wife had fallen completely out of love with him and into love with someone else over the last year.
> 
> Of course I could be all wrong about this as usual.


I actually had considered this exact thing. It makes sense, but I know her: she is just not that clever


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Donesies, you need a holiday.


----------



## skerzoid

mary35 said:


> HHMMM! I am confused - What's not good?
> 
> I still am compelled to stand by my advice that I gave before:
> 
> If you are done - then you are done - stay the course, lock the door, and go forward on your healing path. And I wish you well and truly hope you find someone you can be delirious in love with and happily married ever after to.
> 
> If you have any doubts about being done though, maybe you should at least consider the idea of slowing down a bit to process your feelings with your counselor a little more. Having said that, I don't even know if that is an option now. She may be as done as everyone seems to think she is or as broken as I think she might be or both, and wont let things be slowed down at this point. If you decide to try to slow things down a bit - just prepare yourself for her not allowing it.


The problem with slowing things down is that the WW has accepted Donesies offer. If he slows it down, and she decides to combat the former offer, it could end up costing Donesies hundreds of thousands of dollars more. *And for what?* If she had shown any, *ANY* sign, *JUST ONE SIGN*, of wanting anything different, you could consider it, but where do you see a tear or a whimper, of, if not remorse, even regret? Driving in her new car? Inviting her *NEW* lover to her her apartment? Her telling everyone who will listen what a scumbag he is? Trying to dig up dirt with his estranged brother? Asking him to destroy the evidence of her betrayal? 

I love a happy ending as much as any. I am sad that Spaceghost is still broken. I am happy that Walloped is reconciling. But in both of those cases you had a remorseful spouse. In this story, one can't even get a sniff of her being sorry for the damage she was willing to do to TWO families, including a poor family with three small children. Excuse me if I disagree that he should try to "R" with a person that is willing to treat people terribly, as she continues to do, for her own happiness.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Donesies, you need a holiday.


Agreed. Time for some funsies.


----------



## donesies

I had a better night last night.

Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN. 

I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


----------



## eric1

It certainly does suck. Nothing we say or do for you will change that.

Just know that it gets better and this is probably the low point. Every second you get past the last second is a second closer to not sucking as much.


----------



## Taxman

donesies said:


> SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


AND RIGHT THERE, DONESIES SHOWS HER UTTER LACK OF CHARACTER!!!!

An entitled raving bi+ch who took your heart, crumpled it up and tossed it away. May her new love give her a venereal disease.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


What hurts the worst buddy, is that it doesn't matter what we want. Your 2nd guesses are normal, I still have them even after all that she told me for the past year. Those talks you were wondering about having, they only make things worse because there is not a semblance of rational to be had from the Wayward side. Everything has already been justified, validated, re-written in their head. Anything they can do to push forward without the pain of the guilt and conscience. My WW is so far gone that even when I confronted her with blatant evidence, she has believed her own lies to where she can tell them and feel no remorse, even when I told her she couldn't lie to God, she did.

Even after everyone telling me there's nothing I could have done to changed this, my counselor with months of saying this as well .... I still replay things in my head. What if I did this or that? The answer is still what hurts more than anything because it eliminates chance and hope for the WW at this time. There's nothing I could have done and nothing you can do now to save the marriage that died when this fiasco started ... because the people that our WWs became were who they were all along. 

Our WWs may never hit rock bottom and just jump from one 'cure' to the other to not have to face the internal pain that causes bad decisions and grief but that is a must in order for them to realize what they had and if they even want what they had after all of that. That could take a VERY long time if ever. You can't wait, go on with life, find what and who will make you happiest. When I say that to myself, I suspect you may even feel this too, a sense of just feeling sorry for the WW because we loved them so much. Bottom line, right now, they could care less if we feel sorry for them, not even a thought in their head about that, the only thoughts are what makes them feel good and numbs the pain (not from us) but from what existed before.

Please don't beat yourself up over the decision to R or D. Maybe this is what hurts more than anything to you and I but even though we ponder that decision, it's not ours to make, the power of the decision whether to R or not, is not even a choice. That choice was made for us and thrown in the dumpster.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


R is for you to decide after she convinces you she is worth it,

So far by her words and most importantly by her deeds she has not.

Not even a chirp from her. Not even "I'm sorry". 

So she is either a really proud woman, too proud to admit she screwed up including betraying you in one of the worst ways a spouse can betray their partner or she is an absolute reptile of a unfeeling, uncaring, disloyal human being. A crocodile disguised as a pretty women.

If it is that she is too proud that type of misdirected pride is unhealthy and not really good marriage material. That's a lifetime of misery and butting heads over and over. 

If she is a reptile need I say more.

You dodged a bullet dude. One that could have cost you millions and millions over a lifetime and a heartache 100 times worse than what you are feeling now. You have a wonderful life chance to start again with a loyal worthy partner who does not cheat and yes, will probably be fertile. Imagine if she pulled this crap when you were 55 about to retire then had to support her for 35 more years or so until you were dead? 

Now go take some of all that money you have and spend it in a far off warm, breezy, sandy party place full of happier people. Scuba, fish, swim, run,  read a book, water ski, jet ski, para-sail, cliff dive, whatever gets your kicks. Then relax in the evening with the new vacation pals you make, including the particular women who zero in on you. She/They will get your mind off of things and help you see things in perspective.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


You may think she's worth it.

Her actions tell me she isn't.


----------



## Chaparral

Going out with a new man looks like she isn’t in love. Of course that could be a red herrring to take pressure off her first OM. The makes it look like she is just dating new men. 

If it were me, I would ask her to meet some where neutral. Simply ask her what’s going on, if she is good with the divorce and why she thinks she did what she did.

I personally would not be able to not have another conversation with her. There are just too many doubts going on.

Do not mistake this for me thinking you should reconcile. I actually think you will be happier with a new wife and kids. Nothing beats having kids.


----------



## Chaparral

Was there anything in her journal about what she wanted for her future. As in divorcing you and running of with the other man? Any future plans written about at all?


----------



## VladDracul

Doctor Donesies, the problem most men have is they think a woman feels just like they do after breakups. Men believe that their love for a woman, or their desire to keep a relationship, is sufficient to overcome loss of, or no romantic interest on the woman's part. 

Men believe the beauty of, and their attraction to, a woman is directly proportional to the quality of love and intimacy they will receive in return if they snag her. (Women sort of think this to. But how many women do you see on this or similar sites saying, " How can I save my marriage? My cheating, abusive husband is so beautiful and I love him so much". Women, although hurt by a breakup, have the inherent ability to see, and take solace in the fact, that they dodged a bullet.) 

Men are the ones who take every email from her, every phone call, or her just showing up in close proximity, as a reason for hope. 

Men cannot consider the pain if the relationship goes away. Women intuitively have already factored in the pain from the loss if things don't work out.

Men have a tendency to have their entire emotional support system invested in her. Women have a broader emotional system.

Many men envision recovery of a lost love 10, 20, and even 50+ years later despite being in a long term and relatively happy relationship.

Doc, you may as well face the fact that men are on a long painful road dealing with a breakup, especially one involving cheating. Your ex old lady didn't make it easier on you by down grading, accepting your first offer and unceremoniously walking out. The only helpful advice I can offer is consider many, many men have been through at least as bad, or worse, and got through it with most of their skin. It's going to take you more or less a year to get on stable ground. Its not much of a stretch to say men never fully recover from a breakup.


----------



## Thor

Doc, there is something known as an Exit Affair. The spouse wants out of the marriage but they cannot make the move to end it. They can't tell their spouse they want D, and they can't face going to a lawyer to file. So they have to create the reason for the D.

One way to do this is to have an affair. It then makes the cheater unworthy of remaining married. Psychologically they prove to themselves they are not worthy, if self esteem is at play here. And it could be with your stbxw due to infertility. Alternatively, she may have lost attraction and love. There may be too many bad feelings due to the infertility. She may not even recognize it as the infertility at the root, she may just feel unhappy and without purpose in the marriage. If it is you who is infertile she may have resentments. Whatever the underlying psychology, she was unable to be the bad guy who tells you she wants a D.

So she either intentionally or subconsciously leaves clues for you to discover the affair. Once you know about it, she feels relieved! Now the divorce can happen. Just like some people have to create a fight to break up, the cheater uses the exit affair to create the strife she imagines is necessary to justify a divorce.

When your stbxw told you the marriage was over a long time ago, she may have been telling the complete truth. Though her actions are uncommon at least here on TAM, they are consistent with the exit affair. They are consistent with anybody who leaves a relationship convinced they never want to go back to it, which is not at all an uncommon thing.

The more common affair is different because the cheater isn't looking to end the marriage, they are just looking for a little something spicy on the side. They never expect or want to get caught. So when they do get caught they want to salvage the marriage, albeit without necessarily being remorseful for the affair.

She is a grown adult who can take the initiative to come to you if she wanted to R. But all her actions say she wanted out of the marriage a long time ago and does not want to R.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


You aren't choosing between divorce and reconciliation. Reconciliation isn't one of the available options on the menu. If it suddenly showed up, I would really doubt the quality anyway, based on your descriptions. When your only choice is divorce, that's the one you pursue.


----------



## Edmund

donesies said:


> I actually had considered this exact thing. It makes sense, but I know her: she is just not that clever


Maybe you underestimate her?

If she truly isn't as smart as you, consider your children could have ended up with her intelligence and your looks :laugh:


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. *SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN*.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


No she doesn't. She loves herself. She has her head so far up her ass she doesn't know what is real or what isn't. 

You don't need a child like her in your life. Find an adult woman to grow old with.


----------



## eric1

Don,

Were you put on this earth to be deal with crap like this or were you put on this earth to do the best job that you can do with the capabilities and aptitude that you were born with?


----------



## mary35

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


Have you asked her if she will meet with you and a counselor, not to reconcile, but at least to try to find out what is going on in her head. At the very least, if I were you, I would send a short e-mail saying something like,"Can you at least, give me closure and tell me honestly what happened to make you choose another man over me and our marriage? And is the end of our marriage really what you want? if so, and you were so unhappy in our marriage, why didn't you tell me and file for divorce, before cheating on our marriage? "


----------



## Just another

Mary I really like that idea.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


This is completely normal as well done. 

Your wife checked out of the marriage over a year ago, she is not wanting to R at all. She would still be living out of the same place as you if she did. 

You need to come to the truth that your wife ended this marriage herself and is not coming back. 

Your wife might be beautiful on the outside but her inner person is a ugly POS polecat.


----------



## Hoosier

Mary, I really hate that idea. He is never going to get anything close to closure from her, she is wasted effort. Best to just keep on going down the line, let that crap start the process of being yesterdays news.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies - "Can you at least, give me closure and tell me honestly what happened to make you choose another man over me and our marriage? And is the end of our marriage really what you want? if so, and you were so unhappy in our marriage, why didn't you tell me and file for divorce, before cheating on our marriage? "

Mrs. Donesies - "The marriage died a long time ago. I threw myself into my club activities. I met Fatboy and I just fell in love. I love his touch. He makes me feel young again. I don't care that he is married and has three children. My needs are being met. Thats all I care about. You read my journals. You're a scumbag. Goodby. P.S. Pay these bills please."


----------



## ButtPunch

I don't like it either


----------



## 3putt

skerzoid said:


> Donesies - "Can you at least, give me closure and tell me honestly what happened to make you choose another man over me and our marriage? And is the end of our marriage really what you want? if so, and you were so unhappy in our marriage, why didn't you tell me and file for divorce, before cheating on our marriage? "
> 
> Mrs. Donesies - "The marriage died a long time ago. I threw myself into my club activities. I met Fatboy and I just fell in love. I love his touch. He makes me feel young again. I don't care that he is married and has three children. My needs are being met. Thats all I care about. You read my journals. You're a scumbag. Goodby. P.S. Pay these bills please."


Hammer meet nail.


----------



## mary35

Chaparral said:


> Going out with a new man looks like she isn’t in love. Of course that could be a red herrring to take pressure off her first OM. The makes it look like she is just dating new men.
> 
> If it were me, I would ask her to meet some where neutral. Simply ask her what’s going on, if she is good with the divorce and why she thinks she did what she did.
> 
> I personally would not be able to not have another conversation with her. There are just too many doubts going on.
> 
> Do not mistake this for me thinking you should reconcile. I actually think you will be happier with a new wife and kids. Nothing beats having kids.


This - above! What I have been suggesting is not about getting back with her - it's about feeling you are doing the right thing for you and alleviating any of your doubts. It's about exploring what all of your REAL options are - and then making a decision. You may very well decide to divorce,once you have gathered and processed more info. You may only have the option to divorce as suggested by others. You may risk paying more money if you slow things down. You may risk more pain and frustration and not even succeed in getting answers and alleviating your doubts. These are all things you should
weigh carefully as you decide what you should do or not do - and your decisions at this point should be based on what is best for you. 

I only responded on your thread because i sensed you were not comfortable and completely confident with your choice of this fast paced divorce. Maybe i sensed wrong. i'm not trying to influence your decision, definitely not advocating one way or the other. My sole purpose for posting on this thread was to make sure you were considering everything you needed to in order for you to decide the best course of action for you right now. i sensed that was not happening.


----------



## blahfridge

skerzoid said:


> Donesies - "Can you at least, give me closure and tell me honestly what happened to make you choose another man over me and our marriage? And is the end of our marriage really what you want? if so, and you were so unhappy in our marriage, why didn't you tell me and file for divorce, before cheating on our marriage? "
> 
> Mrs. Donesies - "The marriage died a long time ago. I threw myself into my club activities. I met Fatboy and I just fell in love. I love his touch. He makes me feel young again. I don't care that he is married and has three children. My needs are being met. Thats all I care about. You read my journals. You're a scumbag. Goodby. P.S. Pay these bills please."



Maybe that is exactly what she will say, or she may deflect in some other more subtle way. In either case he does have closure and can well and truly move on knowing that she is not worth any more of his time or thoughts. 

If you do this Donesies, meet in a public area where you can quickly get up and leave if she tries to blame you for everything. 

The alternative to this is to write her a letter and see if and how she responds. 

The choice is yours in all of this - you need to dig deep into your psyche and do what will help you the most. 

Here's a site you may find useful to help you at various stages: 

http://www.breakuprecoveryguide.com/


----------



## mary35

Have not looked through the link provided by Blahfridge, but on the surface it looks like it could be helpful for a break up - but not sure it apples to just finding out about infidelity.

I'll try to make this simple. The question I am suggesting you ask yourself - Is there any value to you in trying to have some conversations with her either verbal or written before the divorce is a done deal? Is there any value in hearing what SHE might have to say, or write - or has her journal and behavior said it all or at least enough for you to really feel you are doing the right thing for yourself in staying the course right now!!! 

You have been given a lot of conjecture about what she is thinking and how she will respond to questions from you. I think you have in your own mind thoughts about what she is thinking and will probably say. However, Is there any value at all TO YOU - in TRYING to find out what she is really thinking or how she would really respond to your questions - even knowing it may cause more pain and frustration - that it may not play out well - that she may not respond at all - that she may respond flippantly, - or that she may respond just as you or others have predicted? YOUR answer to that one question is what is important and will tell you what you need to do or not do!


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Inviting her to a therapy session would be productive if she was a mature, mentally healthy adult. She's not. She's demonstrated no empathy or capacity to understand that she's wronged someone. Who, in their right mind, does not understand that having an extramarital affair is a complete kick to the gut and has potential to instantly end a marriage? Everyone reading this paragraph does. The whole world does. Yet Donsies' wife goes on her merry way as if nothing happened, looking to protect herself and even opportunistically arrange backup providers. Who does this? She believes that _she_ has been wronged. Think about that. It's mind-boggling. 

Does someone who can't even be bothered to say "Gee, sorry I broke our marital vows" really give honest, heartfelt answers in a therapy session? Don't overestimate her. This woman is seriously messed up. Her affair demonstrated how messed up she was, but her actions since then have really driven the point home. He's lucky to be rid of her.


----------



## mary35

Some people want and need to hear what comes out of their spouses mouth - even if its crap, some don't because the behavior says it all!! What do you want and need, Donesies? Will you forever be bothered by not trying to have more conversations with her - or are you just plain and simple done with it all right now???


----------



## mary35

And now I am done! Said what I wanted to say - gave you some things to consider - if you want to consider them. I'm truly sorry for what you are dealing with. No one should have to go through this! Good Luck with figuring it all out. I truly hope that down the road after you heal, you find the love and happiness you desire and deserve. Take Care


----------



## ButtPunch

No letters

No talks about feelings

Nothing good ever comes of this

I have been here a long time

You need to disappear and stay dark.

Hard 180


----------



## just got it 55

ButtPunch said:


> No letters
> 
> No talks about feelings
> 
> Nothing good ever comes of this
> 
> I have been here a long time
> 
> You need to disappear and stay dark.
> 
> Hard 180


Exactly right BP

Done......Clear and Present Detachment The only way to know how great it feels is to do it

55


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

Don't bother trying to Untangle the Skein, as Chump Lady would say.

https://www.chumplady.com/2012/06/untangling-the-skein-of-****upedness/

That link is going to be edited because there's a swear word in it, but you can figure it out.


----------



## 3putt

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Don't bother trying to Untangle the Skein, as Chump Lady would say.
> 
> https://www.chumplady.com/2012/06/untangling-the-skein-of-****upedness/
> 
> That link is going to be edited because there's a swear word in it, but you can figure it out.


Try this instead-

https://www.chumplady.com/?s=untangling


----------



## Rubix Cubed

mary35 said:


> Have you asked her if she will meet with you and a counselor, not to reconcile, but at least to try to find out what is going on in her head. At the very least, if I were you, I would send a short e-mail saying something like,"Can you at least, give me closure and tell me honestly what happened to make you choose another man over me and our marriage? And is the end of our marriage really what you want? if so, and you were so unhappy in our marriage, why didn't you tell me and file for divorce, before cheating on our marriage? "


 If you want to stay in limbo, grovel, play the pick me dance and throw away what self-respect you have left while appearing weak and co-dependant this would be an ideal way to do it.


----------



## Windwalker

Rubix Cubed said:


> If you want to stay in limbo, grovel, play the pick me dance and throw away what self-respect you have left while appearing weak and co-dependant this would be an ideal way to do it.


QFT!


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> Was there anything in her journal about what she wanted for her future. As in divorcing you and running of with the other man? Any future plans written about at all?


Nothing in that regard


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Nothing in that regard


Donesies if you stayed married until the ten year mark, would you had to pay alimony for life?


----------



## Handy

Some people want and need to hear what comes out of their spouses mouth - *even if its crap, *

I doubt the STBXW would be truthful or civil. Many walk-away spouses just want to give excuses why they had to walk away and / or hurt the betrayed spouse.

Most of the time meeting the X is opening up yourself to more hurt. She is going to be right in her mind and you are going to be the person that caused the problem, she had to get away from.


----------



## [email protected]

The best course of action for him is to get rid of her as soon as he can.


----------



## Suspicious1

Handy said:


> Some people want and need to hear what comes out of their spouses mouth - *even if its crap, *
> 
> I doubt the STBXW would be truthful or civil. Many walk-away spouses just want to give excuses why they had to walk away and / or hurt the betrayed spouse.
> 
> Most of the time meeting the X is opening up yourself to more hurt. She is going to be right in her mind and you are going to be the person that caused the problem, she had to get away from.


This, 

In my early days of the break off, I felt I needed an answer, if I asked 5 times got 5 different responses each more hurful than the last one.
She was in power during those times, she knew she had me begging for answers, and she loved every puppy look she was getting from me. She love seeing a destroyed deflated lost confused, waiting on every single syllable that poured out her mouth Man. I was just a play thing for her until I stopped asking, and I realized she didn't care how bad I was hurting.

There are good people that make horrible decision and want to fix what ever they broke with integrity, Done's STBXW isn't one of them. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## SentHereForAReason

Handy said:


> Some people want and need to hear what comes out of their spouses mouth - *even if its crap, *
> 
> I doubt the STBXW would be truthful or civil. Many walk-away spouses just want to give excuses why they had to walk away and / or hurt the betrayed spouse.
> 
> Most of the time meeting the X is opening up yourself to more hurt. She is going to be right in her mind and you are going to be the person that caused the problem, she had to get away from.


This is why life has been hell for me in a lot of ways. Had to live in infidelity for 10 months and no legal recourse to get her out. Now, even if her affair is on pause. Still have to live with her for the next 3 to 4 months that are left in divorce process and get to hear all the reasons we aren't compatible, not right for each other, how I didn't improve things, you name it! What he would likely hear from her, the justifications in her own mind is what I get the pleasure of dealing with on a regular basis when I'm caught in the same room with her.


----------



## Hoosier

After 3 kids, and 30 years of marriage, with no inkling, she was walking out the door to her lovers home. Literally walking there.

I NEEDED to know why? I NEEDED her to tell me. I had SO MANY QUESTIONS. I know how the OP feels, trust me. But you know what? I never asked her the questions, I never got any answers. I asked them over and over in my head, my god..........over and over. Now almost 7 years later. Dont even remember what the questions were, let alone what I thought her answers might be, does not matter. (God it feels good to say that and really mean it) DETACH, keep busy, time is the answer. All your questions wont matter to you some day....


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. You are a man of science, logic, & reason. You are left brain dominant. Things have to add up, & if not, you have no understanding. 

2. She is a creature of the right brain, creative, emotional, intuitive, loves and craves attention, musically aware, easily bored, & totally into her "feelings".

3. Opposites attract, but it makes it hard to see things from the other's point of view. Her thought processes are totally different from yours & seem not intelligent to you. It seems to me that you are a genius of the left & she a genius of the right. Its also why your posts are so short and to the point. She would be "Journaling" on here with full page answers.

4. The why's of her affair will never compute to you. She will always be " a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma." The longer you try to figure out why & how, the longer you will be in pain. Move on out of pain.

5. P.S. This might be why the woman you have been hanging out with makes you laugh, probably right brain-ish. But this might give you a clue to the type of person that fits your personality. Start meeting some beautiful artists, authors, poets, and musicians. :wink2:


----------



## lucy999

mary35 said:


> Have you asked her if she will meet with you and a counselor, not to reconcile, but at least to try to find out what is going on in her head. At the very least, if I were you, I would send a short e-mail saying something like,"Can you at least, give me closure and tell me honestly what happened to make you choose another man over me and our marriage? And is the end of our marriage really what you want? if so, and you were so unhappy in our marriage, why didn't you tell me and file for divorce, before cheating on our marriage? "


No offense, but this is the worst idea ever. He would never get the truth and to her, it would just be ego kibbles. Most likely she would twist it around to where she was the victim and he would be left with more questions than he had initially. She lied to him, to his face for a very long time. What on Earth makes anyone think that she would be truthful at this late date?

STAY DARK, Doc.


----------



## donesies

mary35 said:


> Have not looked through the link provided by Blahfridge, but on the surface it looks like it could be helpful for a break up - but not sure it apples to just finding out about infidelity.
> 
> I'll try to make this simple. The question I am suggesting you ask yourself - Is there any value to you in trying to have some conversations with her either verbal or written before the divorce is a done deal? Is there any value in hearing what SHE might have to say, or write - or has her journal and behavior said it all or at least enough for you to really feel you are doing the right thing for yourself in staying the course right now!!!
> 
> You have been given a lot of conjecture about what she is thinking and how she will respond to questions from you. I think you have in your own mind thoughts about what she is thinking and will probably say. However, Is there any value at all TO YOU - in TRYING to find out what she is really thinking or how she would really respond to your questions - even knowing it may cause more pain and frustration - that it may not play out well - that she may not respond at all - that she may respond flippantly, - or that she may respond just as you or others have predicted? YOUR answer to that one question is what is important and will tell you what you need to do or not do!


I don't think it will do much for me


----------



## donesies

ABHale said:


> Donesies if you stayed married until the ten year mark, would you had to pay alimony for life?


Not in my state


----------



## donesies

Suspicious1 said:


> This,
> 
> In my early days of the break off, I felt I needed an answer, if I asked 5 times got 5 different responses each more hurful than the last one.
> She was in power during those times, she knew she had me begging for answers, and she loved every puppy look she was getting from me. She love seeing a destroyed deflated lost confused, waiting on every single syllable that poured out her mouth Man. I was just a play thing for her until I stopped asking, and I realized she didn't care how bad I was hurting.
> 
> There are good people that make horrible decision and want to fix what ever they broke with integrity, Done's STBXW isn't one of them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Is she in power any longer?

I keep thinking she must get a crazy high from rejecting a man like me


----------



## Suspicious1

donesies said:


> Is she in power any longer?
> 
> I keep thinking she must get a crazy high from rejecting a man like me


I don't say a word to her in many years, it's been almost 20 years DDay. My two children are 27 & 28 now, no need for a middle man. So no power on me.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Malaise

lucy999 said:


> No offense, but this is the worst idea ever. He would never get the truth and to her, it would just be ego kibbles. Most likely she would twist it around to where she was the victim and he would be left with more questions than he had initially. *She lied to him, to his face for a very long time. What on Earth makes anyone think that she would be truthful at this late date?
> *
> STAY DARK, Doc.


Not only lie but take the opportunity to twist the knife.


----------



## Cynthia

Liars lie.

Cheater cheat.

Ask them anything and the above has to be taken into account.

If you ask her anything, she isn't going to admit what her problems really are. People who cheat are not usually introspective and don't see their own shortcomings, especially not nearly as well as they see the shortcomings of others. They tend to blame shift and rewrite history rather than owning up to their mistakes and sins. Their tendency to avoid their own shortcomings rather than seeking to resolve them leads them down some dark roads where they never seem to recognize that the common denominator is themselves.

Therefore, if you ask her, she is not likely to tell you that she was feeling bad about herself, so she looked to someone who could make her feel better. Someone who was more on what she thought her level was rather than someone who she didn't measure up to in her mind. I cannot imagine that she could admit something like that. Probably she'd complain about you using all the issues she made up in her mind to justify her betrayal and abhorrent behavior.


----------



## jlg07

stillfightingforus said:


> This is why life has been hell for me in a lot of ways. Had to live in infidelity for 10 months and no legal recourse to get her out. Now, even if her affair is on pause. Still have to live with her for the next 3 to 4 months that are left in divorce process and get to hear all the reasons we aren't compatible, not right for each other, how I didn't improve things, you name it! What he would likely hear from her, the justifications in her own mind is what I get the pleasure of dealing with on a regular basis when I'm caught in the same room with her.


 @stillfightingforus -- it she keeps pulling this crap, just walk away/out, no? Is there any reason why you have to listen to her? you know she is spouting BS so can't you just get away from her (at least for the few minutes until she shuts up)? You can always just keep repeating "I'm sorry you feel that way" ad naseum until she just gives up. Sorry, not trying to T/J here.


----------



## donesies

One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.

Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


You can try, but over time I predict it will become increasingly difficult.


----------



## eric1

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?




You can do anything that you want and anything that makes you happy. This is the entire point.

Just understand that it will be complex and probably impact your healing. Maybe taking a break for a few months then assessing where you are healing-wise.

You will also need to discuss with the sister now that you plan on dating in the future and that introducing this woman or women to the children will need to be handled tactically. That’s all part of the complexity.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


You can try, but what usually happens over a period of time is, because blood is thicker than water, you may find that they distance themselves. This could especially be true if you and she marry other partners.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


It would just now be in the context of having a relationship with the children of a friend.

The invitations may dwindle away and things may become awkward over time, but that's better for the small children than having you just vanish from their lives as though you never cared.


----------



## SentHereForAReason

jlg07 said:


> stillfightingforus said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is why life has been hell for me in a lot of ways. Had to live in infidelity for 10 months and no legal recourse to get her out. Now, even if her affair is on pause. Still have to live with her for the next 3 to 4 months that are left in divorce process and get to hear all the reasons we aren't compatible, not right for each other, how I didn't improve things, you name it! What he would likely hear from her, the justifications in her own mind is what I get the pleasure of dealing with on a regular basis when I'm caught in the same room with her.
> 
> 
> 
> @stillfightingforus -- it she keeps pulling this crap, just walk away/out, no? Is there any reason why you have to listen to her? you know she is spouting BS so can't you just get away from her (at least for the few minutes until she shuts up)? You can always just keep repeating "I'm sorry you feel that way" ad naseum until she just gives up. Sorry, not trying to T/J here.
Click to expand...

I can do this most if the time but right now I'm trying to see civilly if I can get what's most important to me through discussions. Trying this once and then if not going back to all important stuff through lawyer. I want 60/40 parenting time and the house. She can have everything else but for appearance and stubbornness she may not back down from 50/50 and I'd that's the case I'll just proceed with my intitial motion for primary physical custody.


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> I had a better night last night.
> 
> Even so, I keep going back and forth on D vs R. But even if I wanted R, I don’t know that she wants it. Probably not. SHE LOVES ANOTHER MAN.
> 
> I have about a month left before finalizing. Man this sucks.


Doc,

1. To have a successful R the cheater must accept responsibility and be truly remorseful for their betrayal.

That is step one. Your wife is not even close or willing to take that path. 

So get thought of R out of your mind, it is not up to you alone and it take two committed people te even start the attempt. You are one person short. 

2x4 - Accept that your STBXW did not value the marriage (she said it had been over for years - right). Get the fantasy of R out of your mind. Your wife is a cheater who wants other men's attention more than she wanted a marriage to you. Why on earth would you want this woman back- because she looks good? Because she was good in bed? Because she looked good on your arm? Because you thought people looked at you as lucky to have her? 

Are you that shallow? Do looks and other people's opinion mean more to you than honesty and character?


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


It is up to you and the mother of the children. If you enjoy it - do it.


----------



## ButtPunch

TDSC60 said:


> Doc,
> 
> 1. To have a successful R the cheater must accept responsibility and be truly remorseful for their betrayal.
> 
> That is step one. Your wife is not even close or willing to take that path.
> 
> So get thought of R out of your mind, it is not up to you alone and it take two committed people te even start the attempt. You are one person short.
> 
> 2x4 - Accept that your STBXW did not value the marriage (she said it had been over for years - right). Get the fantasy of R out of your mind. Your wife is a cheater who wants other men's attention more than she wanted a marriage to you. Why on earth would you want this woman back- because she looks good? Because she was good in bed? Because she looked good on your arm? Because you thought people looked at you as lucky to have her?
> 
> Are you that shallow? Do looks and other people's opinion mean more to you than honesty and character?


He wants to reconcile because he's hurting.

He thinks this will make the pain stop


----------



## skerzoid

A heroin addict still wants his fix. He wants it even over his life and the life of his family.

A true story. When I lived in Colorado and was working at a treatment center for emotionally disturbed teens, I worked with MANY drug addicts for 8 years so I know them well. There was a married couple in the town where I lived that were meth addicts. They had three children. They took out life insurance policies on their children and then set the house on fire while the children were asleep..... They chose to burn their children alive to get their fix. 

In my mind, addiction is the modern equivalent of demonic possession. 

Donesies, your wife is your drug. You know that she is harmful to you. You still want her. There is nothing more that we can advise you other than to not put yourself in contact with her. If it can't be avoided, bring back-up to help you stay strong. Get individual counseling. You need professional help in dealing with this. You need to lean on friends and family. You need to reach down and stay strong.


----------



## 3putt

skerzoid said:


> A heroin addict still wants his fix. He wants it even over his life and the life of his family.
> 
> A true story. When I lived in Colorado and was working at a treatment center for emotionally disturbed teens, I worked with MANY drug addicts for 8 years so I know them well. There was a married couple in the town where I lived that were meth addicts. They had three children. They took out life insurance policies on their children and then set the house on fire while the children were asleep..... They chose to burn their children alive to get their fix.
> 
> Donesies, your wife is your drug. You know that she is harmful to you. You still want her. There is nothing more that we can advise you other than to not put yourself in contact with her. If it can't be avoided, bring back-up to help you stay strong. Get individual counseling. You need professional help in dealing with this. You need to lean on friends and family. You need to reach down and stay strong.


Now that was a story I could've gone without hearing.

Ugh


----------



## Primrose

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


My situation is very unique and appears to be the exception. 

My in-laws were appalled when exDH left for another woman. They still loved their son (obviously) but were ashamed and stood by my side. 

To this day, a little over 3 years later, I have been able to maintain a close relationship with my ex-IL's. My ex-MIL and I still have a very special bond. She loves my new fiance, is happy for me, and even includes my [soon to be] step-son in her yearly birthday and Christmas gifts. My brothers and sisters in laws and I are still very close as well. 

However, and this is a very important, distinguishing disclaimer- my ex and I share 3 children together. Throughout these 3 years we have managed to form some semblance of a friendship and a very friendly, cordial co-parenting relationship. He gets along well with my fiance and I get along well with his long term gf (NOT the OW, btw). We sit together at our kids' sports and extra-curriculars, and we even have joint bday parties for each of the kids.

So while it IS possible, it takes very particular circumstances and personalities to make the above work.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> One thing we haven’t talked about the relationship with the in-laws. My ex has nieces and a nephew that i’ve been very close with. Her sister is very supportive of me continuing to have a relationship with them. She’s actually called me several times to take them out for fun times. I enjoy doing this.
> 
> Can I continue a relationship with them? How does that work?


Yes. 

Just keep the course.


----------



## donesies

So last night was particularly strange and invoked some new thoughts and feelings. 

I went to a mixer and this new girl that I've been "seeing" was there. She seemed happy to see me at first, but started to cool off after awhile. Long story short: she went out to have a smoke and some guy came and picked her up and she left with him in his car.

Obviously we are not "together" and she can hang out with whoever she wants. However, I am AMAZED by how much this rejection stings. After spending WEEKS on this forum pouring out everything about my STBXW, all I can think about is this new girl leaving me at the mixer to run off with this other guy. I LITERALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS about my STBXW.

Now, I want to be clear: I don't care about the why's of this new girl's motives or understanding her actions. They are PERFECTLY appropriate and acceptable. What is bothering me is how much it is bothering me. I know this girl wasn't the right one for me and she SHOULD BE with someone else, but I keep wondering if my new life is meant to be this continuous cycle of pain and heartbreak. I really thought that I didn't have any serious feelings for this girl so what's going on?


----------



## Elizabeth001

Your wounds are too fresh hon. You need to heal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> all I can think about is this new girl leaving me at the mixer to run off with this other guy. I LITERALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS about my STBXW.


Dawg, I questioned you several pages back about whether its your ex old lady or your ego that's driving you, using this very example. You have your answer plain and simple. 
On the new chick bed hoping from one to another, expect it. The women come and the women go. Until one comes along that thinks you're the greatest thing since sliced bread, go with the flow. The others are like rental cars, somebody else is getting behind the wheel often before the seat cools off from the previous driver. Don't sweat it. Like they say, "Easy come, easy go".


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> So last night was particularly strange and invoked some new thoughts and feelings.
> 
> I went to a mixer and this new girl that I've been "seeing" was there. She seemed happy to see me at first, but started to cool off after awhile. Long story short: she went out to have a smoke and some guy came and picked her up and she left with him in his car.
> 
> Obviously we are not "together" and she can hang out with whoever she wants. However, I am AMAZED by how much this rejection stings. After spending WEEKS on this forum pouring out everything about my STBXW, all I can think about is this new girl leaving me at the mixer to run off with this other guy. I LITERALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS about my STBXW.
> 
> Now, I want to be clear: I don't care about the why's of this new girl's motives or understanding her actions. They are PERFECTLY appropriate and acceptable. What is bothering me is how much it is bothering me. I know this girl wasn't the right one for me and she SHOULD BE with someone else, but I keep wondering if my new life is meant to be this continuous cycle of pain and heartbreak. I really thought that I didn't have any serious feelings for this girl so what's going on?


Perhaps she sensed you were not feeling it and cut her loses. Who knows, who cares. Very little invested and in your words you knew she was not right for you. 

After what your exwife just pulled any 'rejection' will feel amplified. The point is on feel. Your brain knows better. Use you brain to override your emotions. The high/low oscillations will dampen over time. Your wound is new, it will heal. 

Meanwhile don't sweat it, just go meet someone else.


----------



## Chaparral

It wasn’t necessarily planned. After getting a read from you she may have called him to bail.


----------



## Thor

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> After what your exwife just pulled any 'rejection' will feel amplified.


Yup, exactly. Your nerves are raw right now.

In 6 months this kind of thing will make you laugh.


----------



## Suspicious1

News travel at the speed of light, I'm 9999.999 sure she has your intel. And as Broken in Brooklyn said makes perfectly sense about getting the vibe from you.

All this wiol subside in due time, it happend to me almost after 8 months. I wasn't ready then to even casually date let along sleep with anyone. I was too wreck in the head.

I've said this several times, I wish I had a platform such as this, I woukd have understand thing a whole lot better.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Cromer

donesies said:


> So last night was particularly strange and invoked some new thoughts and feelings.
> 
> I went to a mixer and this new girl that I've been "seeing" was there. She seemed happy to see me at first, but started to cool off after awhile. Long story short: *she went out to have a smoke* and *some guy came and picked her up* and she left with him in his car.
> 
> Obviously we are not "together" and she can hang out with whoever she wants. However, I am AMAZED by how much this rejection stings. After spending WEEKS on this forum pouring out everything about my STBXW, all I can think about is this new girl leaving me at the mixer to run off with this other guy. I LITERALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS about my STBXW.
> 
> Now, I want to be clear: I don't care about the why's of this new girl's motives or understanding her actions. They are PERFECTLY appropriate and acceptable. What is bothering me is how much it is bothering me. I know this girl wasn't the right one for me and she SHOULD BE with someone else, but I keep wondering if my new life is meant to be this continuous cycle of pain and heartbreak. I really thought that I didn't have any serious feelings for this girl so what's going on?


Consider yourself lucky. Smoking is a deal breaker for me, I'd never date a smoker.

You're ghosting her, right?


----------



## donesies

Cromer said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> So last night was particularly strange and invoked some new thoughts and feelings.
> 
> I went to a mixer and this new girl that I've been "seeing" was there. She seemed happy to see me at first, but started to cool off after awhile. Long story short: *she went out to have a smoke* and *some guy came and picked her up* and she left with him in his car.
> 
> Obviously we are not "together" and she can hang out with whoever she wants. However, I am AMAZED by how much this rejection stings. After spending WEEKS on this forum pouring out everything about my STBXW, all I can think about is this new girl leaving me at the mixer to run off with this other guy. I LITERALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS about my STBXW.
> 
> Now, I want to be clear: I don't care about the why's of this new girl's motives or understanding her actions. They are PERFECTLY appropriate and acceptable. What is bothering me is how much it is bothering me. I know this girl wasn't the right one for me and she SHOULD BE with someone else, but I keep wondering if my new life is meant to be this continuous cycle of pain and heartbreak. I really thought that I didn't have any serious feelings for this girl so what's going on?
> 
> 
> 
> Consider yourself lucky. Smoking is a deal breaker for me, I'd never date a smoker.
> 
> You're ghosting her, right?
Click to expand...

Yep. Haven’t said a thing to her. We both know all the same people at the mixer. She knew I would hear about the dude picking her up. I’ve said nothing and don’t intend to.

I guess I’m ghosting 2 girls now 🙂


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Yep. Haven’t said a thing to her. We both know all the same people at the mixer. She knew I would hear about the dude picking her up. I’ve said nothing and don’t intend to.
> 
> I guess I’m ghosting 2 girls now 🙂


Maybe it was her brother.


----------



## eric1

donesies said:


> Yep. Haven’t said a thing to her. We both know all the same people at the mixer. She knew I would hear about the dude picking her up. I’ve said nothing and don’t intend to.
> 
> I guess I’m ghosting 2 girls now 🙂


Casper! :laugh:


----------



## bandit.45

skerzoid said:


> A heroin addict still wants his fix. He wants it even over his life and the life of his family.
> 
> A true story. When I lived in Colorado and was working at a treatment center for emotionally disturbed teens, I worked with MANY drug addicts for 8 years so I know them well. There was a married couple in the town where I lived that were meth addicts. They had three children. They took out life insurance policies on their children and then set the house on fire while the children were asleep..... They chose to burn their children alive to get their fix.


About ten years ago an Arizona sheriff's deputy was pursuing a drunk driver who would not stop. Then he saw the guy throw some big round object out the window. They finally got the guy stopped and inside the car the found the decapitated body of his 13 year old son. The object he threw out the window was the boy's head. Turns out he was on a meth binge and had not slept in over a week and was hallucinating and thought his son was a hit man planted in his house to kill him. So he killed the boy first. 

He got life without parole.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Yep. Haven’t said a thing to her. We both know all the same people at the mixer. She knew I would hear about the dude picking her up. I’ve said nothing and don’t intend to.
> 
> I guess I’m ghosting 2 girls now 🙂


Still... it was a ****ty thing to do. Rude as hell. Definitely ghost her. 

I'm sorry that happened brother. Don't take it personally.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Maybe it was her brother.


It wasn't


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> Still... it was a ****ty thing to do. Rude as hell. Definitely ghost her.
> 
> I'm sorry that happened brother. Don't take it personally.


Yeeeeaaaahhh...kind stings but plenty of fish and all that


----------



## donesies

eric1 said:


> Casper! :laugh:


Seriously...FML


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Such is the single life. You shouldn't be interviewing for soulmates now anyway. The good news is that you are starting to detach from WW. This is the ideal. The opposite of love is indifference. 

The main thing is that you continue on with your healing. The other girl was just a pain RX anyway. Remember, don't get addicted to the pain killers. They are a temporary crutch. 

She may have already had a relationship with another guy, who knows? She was rude just leaving that way, so treat it for what it was, rudeness. You are not rude to a friend. Its up to her to make amends, if not, *"NEXT"!*


----------



## alte Dame

If she did that to you, then she wasn't worth your time. Try to have your ego concentrate on that rather than the fact that she took off. Lots of people won't be a match for you. That girl certainly wasn't.

You'll find someone great. I have no doubt that you will.

ETA: I have to say that I don't think this was a rejection. It was really just the rude behavior of someone who lacks common courtesy. Not worth your time.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Yeeeeaaaahhh...kind stings but plenty of fish and all that


She could have hooked up with that guy some other time. She should have had the decency to finish out the evening with you, and then politely told you she wasn't interested in a follow-up. That is what adults do. That is the way a woman with class behaves. 

If this woman ever says "hi" to you again, ghost her like Casper.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Donesies, did you and this women agree to meet at this event or you just ran into her there?

I am asking in that if it was a planned date yeah she sucks. 

If you just ran into her there let it go. Seriously. Easy come, easy go. You were not into her anyway.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Donesies, did you and this women agree to meet at this event or you just ran into her there?
> 
> I am asking in that if it was a planned date yeah she sucks.
> 
> If you just ran into her there let it go. Seriously. Easy come, easy go. You were not into her anyway.


Hard to explain. We both knew each other would be there. We talked about being excited for the event. There were undertones of a date, but it wasn't exactly formalized.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Hard to explain. We both knew each other would be there. We talked about being excited for the event. There were undertones of a date, but it wasn't exactly formalized.


Classy lady! She knows that you have been going through so she sort of acts like an ahole. 

Block her number at the cell phone provider level. 

Yeah, ignore her.


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> So last night was particularly strange and invoked some new thoughts and feelings.
> 
> I went to a mixer and this new girl that I've been "seeing" was there. She seemed happy to see me at first, but started to cool off after awhile. Long story short: she went out to have a smoke and some guy came and picked her up and she left with him in his car.
> 
> Obviously we are not "together" and she can hang out with whoever she wants. However, I am AMAZED by how much this rejection stings. After spending WEEKS on this forum pouring out everything about my STBXW, all I can think about is this new girl leaving me at the mixer to run off with this other guy. I LITERALLY COULDN'T CARE LESS about my STBXW.
> 
> Now, I want to be clear: I don't care about the why's of this new girl's motives or understanding her actions. They are PERFECTLY appropriate and acceptable. What is bothering me is how much it is bothering me. I know this girl wasn't the right one for me and she SHOULD BE with someone else, but I keep wondering if my new life is meant to be this continuous cycle of pain and heartbreak. I really thought that I didn't have any serious feelings for this girl so what's going on?


Your level of introspection is good. You're surprised at how much this little thing hurt you... and you're surprised at just how NOT ready you are to deal with this whole stupid dating thing. No doubt about it, the dating/mating game is incredibly stupid. You will endure many more episodes like this. When you get to the point where you laugh about them, you're ready to date.

I remember very early on after my divorce I was chatting with a gal back in my old hometown. She was very good looking. Former homecoming queen. Her hubby cheated on her and left her to care for two kids. So, we had things in common. We had many long texting conversations about our horrible situations.

I go back to the home town to see her and some old friends. We hang out at a local bar. Next thing I know she is hanging all over some dude. Turns out the guy was just let out of prison. He was a drug addict. He was completely crazy. She was, of course, mesmerized. She went home with him... then she later tried to share with me all the stories of how this guy was so crazy, blah blah. In hindsight, all of her past stories were almost complete BS to try and paint her as a victim. 

It was like I was in some kind of bad romantic comedy. I ghosted her from then on.

I could go on and on with dating stories. Hmmm... may be a good topic for a blog post.:smile2:


----------



## Lostinthought61

donesies said:


> Hard to explain. We both knew each other would be there. We talked about being excited for the event. There were undertones of a date, but it wasn't exactly formalized.


Donesies,

Don't read into it, take it for face value, your both single, there is no commitment on either side...if she went with him then so be it, but in my mind that is a possible red flag, since she saw you there and decided to leave with him, she perhaps wanted you to know that she will do as she pleases. 

Here is the thing, your mind is still messed up, you have suffered a huge demoralizing and emotionally catastrophic event from the closest person to you or so you thought. In many ways it is like a death with no closure because she ran instead of facing you, her cowardly behavior is indicative of someone who will not face her transgression but would rather blame you for her failures. You need time to grieve, time to restructure your outlook...now is not the time to date, for you will see her in others, you will compare others to her and either is fair to them. allow her to die in your memory if possible so that you can fill new memories with someone who values you.


----------



## donesies

So these feelings are all normal at this point? It's just weird that I really didn't think I cared then suddenly was so bothered by it


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Completely normal. Still waters run deep.


----------



## 3putt

donesies, read this and see if you can't identify with it.

A Survival Guide to the Emotional Roller-Coaster Ride of Discovering That Your Partner Was Cheating on You ? Infidelity Healing


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> So these feelings are all normal at this point? It's just weird that I really didn't think I cared then suddenly was so bothered by it


You've suffered a pretty serious reality-altering trauma. Any little dips back into that mental pond of "woman betraying me" will result in your brain going haywire. You can say "Hey, I'm just having fun" all you want... but it's going to bite you in the butt. 

Been there, done that, my friend. I just thank God I didn't knock up any crazy woman or get some disease or create some crazy drama with my kids around. I got lucky.


----------



## sandcastle

Yeah-
Get over yourself.
You are a Dr . ( self proclaimed) and at a mixup and new chick goes out for a smoke and leaves with who? A fellow smoker!

Why oH why does my spidey sense
Get alls kindas spidey ... When you post.

I smell it but I can't put my finger on it.
I'll figure it out.


----------



## skerzoid

sandcastle said:


> Yeah-
> Get over yourself.
> You are a Dr . ( self proclaimed) and at a mixup and new chick goes out for a smoke and leaves with who? A fellow smoker!
> 
> Why oH why does my spidey sense
> Get alls kindas spidey ... When you post.
> 
> I smell it but I can't put my finger on it.
> I'll figure it out.


Why in the hell can I never understand anything you post???:scratchhead:


----------



## 3putt

sandcastle said:


> Yeah-
> Get over yourself.
> You are a Dr . ( self proclaimed) and at a mixup and new chick goes out for a smoke and leaves with who? A fellow smoker!
> 
> Why oH why does my spidey sense
> Get alls kindas spidey ... When you post.
> 
> I smell it but I can't put my finger on it.
> I'll figure it out.


You have become uniquely adept at wearing out your welcome around here. I'll probably get a timeout for this, and that's fine, but do you never tire of being a completely self-aggrandizing a$$hole?


----------



## just got it 55

3putt said:


> You have become uniquely adept at wearing out your welcome around here. I'll probably get a timeout for this, and that's fine, but do you never tire of being a completely self-aggrandizing a$$hole?


3 P I love yah like a Brother:laugh:

55


----------



## 3putt

just got it 55 said:


> 3 P I love yah like a Brother:laugh:
> 
> 55


It's probably Lenzi back again. I had almost forgotten about that idiot.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

3putt said:


> You have become uniquely adept at wearing out your welcome around here. I'll probably get a timeout for this, and that's fine, but do you never tire of being a completely self-aggrandizing a$$hole?


One of these days I hope to see "Banned" under his name. He brings a lot of psychological baggage into threads that are trying to help out good people.


----------



## sandcastle

skerzoid said:


> Why in the hell can I never understand anything you post???:scratchhead:


I'm not sure .


----------



## sandcastle

3putt said:


> You have become uniquely adept at wearing out your welcome around here. I'll probably get a timeout for this, and that's fine, but do you never tire of being a completely self-aggrandizing a$$hole?


Thanks- 
I'm an ******* and a self- aggrandizing one at that.


----------



## sandcastle

Tatsuhiko said:


> One of these days I hope to see "Banned" under his name. He brings a lot of psychological baggage into threads that are trying to help out good people.



Banned plenty of times.

I'll work on my baggage- can you VAR me?
Check my cellphone records .
Move the money and stage a fake robbery.


----------



## sandcastle

3putt said:


> It's probably Lenzi back again. I had almost forgotten about that idiot.


Nope- not Lenzi but perhaps you should concern yourself with other endeavors-

Like having more and better sex with your wife...

Bless your heart.


----------



## sandcastle

3putt said:


> You have become uniquely adept at wearing out your welcome around here.


Oh! 
I missed the welcome party?

Who is in charge of that?

So- 3putt- are you in charge around here about who is welcome to post?


Is this a cute clique and to become a part of the clique you have to do what?

Agree with you? And your boys?


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> Hard to explain. We both knew each other would be there. We talked about being excited for the event. *There were undertones of a date, but it wasn't exactly formalized.*


Donesies, no offense, but what's exactly the problem then?

If you wanted it to be a date, you should have made it formal.

This is like the male version of Hintese.

She may not be perfect, but there's no reason to slag off a woman who had no reason to think she was on an actual date with you.

Talking and hinting about an encounter, does not make it a date.

Next time, be direct and in agreement. 

Carry on.


----------



## Malaise

Satya said:


> Donesies, no offense, but what's exactly the problem then?
> 
> If you wanted it to be a date, you should have made it formal.
> 
> *This is like the male version of Hintese.
> *
> She may not be perfect, but there's no reason to slag off a woman who had no reason to think she was on an actual date with you.
> 
> Talking and hinting about an encounter, does not make it a date.
> 
> Next time, be direct and in agreement.
> 
> Carry on.


qu'est-ce que c'est ?


----------



## Satya

Hintese... Where you speak in suggestions or hints but don't actually or directly say what you mean.

Requires a mind-reader interface (not yet invented).

Women are accused of doing it all the time.


----------



## donesies

Satya said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hard to explain. We both knew each other would be there. We talked about being excited for the event. *There were undertones of a date, but it wasn't exactly formalized.*
> 
> 
> 
> Donesies, no offense, but what's exactly the problem then?
> 
> If you wanted it to be a date, you should have made it formal.
> 
> This is like the male version of Hintese.
> 
> She may not be perfect, but there's no reason to slag off a woman who had no reason to think she was on an actual date with you.
> 
> Talking and hinting about an encounter, does not make it a date.
> 
> Next time, be direct and in agreement.
> 
> Carry on.
Click to expand...

The problem is not with her, it is with me. The problem is not that it happened, but how I feel about it. The problem is that, somewhere on the inside, I must have wanted something with this woman who I thought (even knew) I wasn’t right for.

On a side note: after flirting with me and and displaying some interest, she cooled off and then left without saying goodbye. That certainly added to this vortex of feelings.


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> The problem is not with her, it is with me. The problem is not that it happened, but how I feel about it. The problem is that, somewhere on the inside, I must have wanted something with this woman who I thought (even knew) I wasn’t right for.
> 
> On a side note: after flirting with me and and displaying some interest, she cooled off and then left without saying goodbye. That certainly added to this vortex of feelings.


I went thru the exact same emotions.

You are vulnerable right now.

Got to get over this and become stronger.

Another woman this soon probably isn't the answer.


----------



## 3putt

Tatsuhiko said:


> *One of these days I hope to see "Banned" under his name.* He brings a lot of psychological baggage into threads that are trying to help out good people.


And today is your lucky day.


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> The problem is not with her, it is with me. The problem is not that it happened, but how I feel about it. The problem is that, somewhere on the inside, I must have wanted something with this woman who I thought (even knew) I wasn’t right for.
> 
> On a side note: after flirting with me and and displaying some interest, she cooled off and then left without saying goodbye. That certainly added to this vortex of feelings.


That's because a lot of women play nice by flirting. To them it's not a promise of exclusivity, it's fun. Men usually take it to mean more than it is, so for them, it's not all that fun if it's not genuine. 

The moment you realized she was there with another guy, you should have ignored her, because IF you were hoping for something with her, that would be your clear signal to let her go because she made a different choice.


----------



## donesies

Satya said:


> That's because a lot of women play nice by flirting. To them it's not a promise of exclusivity, it's fun. Men usually take it to mean more than it is, so for them, it's not all that fun if it's not genuine.
> 
> The moment you realized she was there with another guy, you should have ignored her, because IF you were hoping for something with her, that would be your clear signal to let her go because she made a different choice.


She wasn't there with another guy - she was there alone. I got the story later: she went outside to smoke and was texting someone. Next thing, a guy pulls up in a car and she says to her friends "gotta go" and she jumps in the care and takes off


----------



## Cynthia

I'm confused about this whole scenario at the party, but this is how I think it happened. Tell me if I'm wrong.

You have been in contact with this woman, I'll call her B. You and B were both going to the same event and you were looking forward to seeing her there. In the course of your discussion with B, you thought she had the same feelings about looking forward to seeing you there and thought it may turn into a date.

When you got to the event, B was friendly with you and you thought your feelings towards here were reciprocated. You thought things were moving forward. This was not in any manner discussed. It was inside of you.

B was engaging with other people and enjoying the event. She went outside for a smoke. A man pulled up in a car and she left with him.

If this is what happened, I don't think she did anything wrong nor did she ditch you, because she wasn't there with you in the first place. She was there as a single. She had probably been texting the man she left with for some time and had hoped he would be able to come get her. She likes you, but didn't realize you thought she was there with you. When she left, it never occurred to her to say good-bye and let you know what was going on just like she didn't walk the room and say good-bye to everyone she had spoken with that evening. You were just another person in the crowd who she enjoys connecting with.

When you left the event, did you go around and say good-bye to all the people you had spoken to earlier? Is this normal? Is this what actually happened?


----------



## skerzoid

CynthiaDe said:


> I'm confused about this whole scenario at the party, but this is how I think it happened. Tell me if I'm wrong.
> 
> You have been in contact with this woman, I'll call her B. You and B were both going to the same event and you were looking forward to seeing her there. In the course of your discussion with B, you thought she had the same feelings about looking forward to seeing you there and thought it may turn into a date.
> 
> When you got to the event, B was friendly with you and you thought your feelings towards here were reciprocated. You thought things were moving forward. This was not in any manner discussed. It was inside of you.
> 
> B was engaging with other people and enjoying the event. She went outside for a smoke. A man pulled up in a car and she left with him.
> 
> If this is what happened, I don't think she did anything wrong nor did she ditch you, because she wasn't there with you in the first place. She was there as a single. She had probably been texting the man she left with for some time and had hoped he would be able to come get her. She likes you, but didn't realize you thought she was there with you. When she left, it never occurred to her to say good-bye and let you know what was going on just like she didn't walk the room and say good-bye to everyone she had spoken with that evening. You were just another person in the crowd who she enjoys connecting with.
> 
> When you left the event, did you go around and say good-bye to all the people you had spoken to earlier? Is this normal? Is this what actually happened?


I think that Donesies had said earlier that this woman was someone who was helping him with his sadness over his wife's betrayal. If so, he was feeling some sort of link to her. It is hard not to pour your soul out to someone, and look to them for comfort, thinking that they felt some compassion for you. She apparently, did feel something but not to the extent of feeling romantically toward Donesies. She probably doesn't feel on an equal level with him.

This is a problem that Donesies will have when meeting women: He is someone that can be intimidating because of who he is. 

I have a daughter who has movie star looks. I am not saying this because I am her father. I am saying this because she is stunning and people comment on this (luckily she looks like her mother :grin2: She and her mother were both beauty queens; everybody in my family looks like a model but me :|). She had a problem in the past meeting men who actually wanted a relationship because most men that she met felt they were out of her league and didn't ask her out, or had so little self confidence that they were not a good fit.

She has finally met her match. She is in a relationship with someone who has the self confidence to be an equal companion. I think this is why his marriage failed; Mrs. donesies was not his equal and she sought someone who was.

This is what Donesies challenge is: he has to find someone that is an equal, and can be in an equal relationship. Just dating to have fun is one thing; finding someone with the self confidence to build a real relationship will be hard but it is essential.


----------



## bandit.45

Satya said:


> Hintese... Where you speak in suggestions or hints but don't actually or directly say what you mean.
> 
> Requires a mind-reader interface (not yet invented).
> 
> Women are accused of doing it all the time.


I can’t understand all dem big words....


----------



## bandit.45

Donesies just shrug it off and move on. Take time for yourself and learn to be with yourself. 

You’re lonely. That’s all it is. You were used to having a companion to go home to and now that comfort is no longer there. So now you are learning to be by yourself again, and that is a skill you need to re-learn. 

Add to the lonliness is that your self esteem is in the gutter. That too is inderstandable, and it makes you susceptible to flaky women, like that one. 

I only partially agree with some of the previous posts. Yeah maybe in her mind it wasn’t a date. But you know what? It was still thoughtless and rude for that gal to not even tell you goodbye after having spent the larger portion of the evening with you. 

Maybe women think this kind of behavior is okay, but I think it is rude, unmannered and lacks propriety. I never leave a social event without taking my leave of the people I was visiting with. 

Black this woman off your list. She’s rude and a jerk. 

.


----------



## Affaircare

bandit.45 said:


> Satya said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hintese... Where you speak in suggestions or hints but don't actually or directly say what you mean.
> 
> Requires a mind-reader interface (not yet invented).
> 
> Women are accused of doing it all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t understand all dem big words....
Click to expand...











Speaking as a female of the species who is "of a certain age"...if I guy doesn't have the cajones to say right out loud "Hey you want to go to ___ with me?" then it isn't a date. I don't play the hintese game,

Same for just about everything. If you think it or feel it, say it right out loud and I'm super happy to work it out. If you don't say it right out loud, as far as I'm concerned I have no clue and I'm not guessing. Plus what's good for the goose is good for the gander--If I think it or feel it, it's my job ot say it out loud and not make people guess. 

Doc, here's my take--again as a female of the species. You're still kind of hurting from all this, and I think going out to some event you'd enjoy anyway with someone who's of casual interest might do you some good, but getting emotionally attached to someone even a little bit and playing the *****foot game right now will likely end in hurting you some more. Every time some nice lady does the smallest thing, it will remind you of this big trigger and re-hurt you. I'd recommend going out with the guys and howling at the moon a little. I'd recommend some "group" type things, hanging out with the gang of folks you like and getting your heart healed a little. Sure have some fun, but do it smart and remind yourself that you're a catch. The trick is to balance the healing of your heart and the possible emotional connection. If your heart isn't healed you aren't ready to give yourself well.

P.S. No hints  LOL I think it was rude of her to take off without saying goodbye, but it was or wasn't a date and sometimes people are rude. You want to be with someone rude?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Donesies, 

Actions speak louder than words and it is pointless to speculate what is going on in her brain as per her motive or what she is thinking. No one knows that except her. No one.

Her actions: She flirted with you then she iced you then she made sure you saw her ignore you and leave without even a goodbye. All in one evening. 

So your brain says 'whatever' but your heart takes a punch. Listen to your brain and move on. We have already explained why.


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> The problem is that, somewhere on the inside, I must have wanted something with this woman who I thought (even knew) I wasn’t right for.
> 
> On a side note: after flirting with me and and displaying some interest, she cooled off and then left without saying goodbye. That certainly added to this vortex of feelings.


Of course you wanted something from this woman. But like many men, you want to enter and exit a relationship, an I use that term loosely, on your terms and always with a profit. On a side note: I like to do that trading stock. I check the market, sector, industry, trend, price direction, volume, confirmation of breakouts and bounces, et cetera and still oftentimes get on the losing side of the trade. Chasing bush is the same way Dawg. Sometime you're the windshield and sometimes youre the bug. Set a reasonably tight stop and cash out when the trade don't go your way.


----------



## Satya

Affaircare said:


> I'd recommend going out with the guys and howling at the moon a little.


I second this. And it made me laugh!


----------



## TeddieG

Satya said:


> I second this. And it made me laugh!


I agree with this for a different reason perhaps. So donesies, as I read you talk about yourself, how buff you are, how smart, how good looking, how disciplined, I could see what I see all the time in the students who want what they want (and the heart wants what it wants) - each one of them is a nice looking guy who is smart, has had all kinds of support to be a success, has no money problems, and is a charmer. Charmers are sometimes obviously in touch with the fact that they use charm to get what they want; others are just so accustomed to things dropping into their laps that they are completely clueless that the person sitting across from them knows when they're being "charmed."

I had one in here recently. Not turning in assignments, not doing the work, oh I'm an athlete I'm so busy, and besides, I don't need to read the books and listen to the lectures, I'm from Houston and in Houston I see stuff all the time about this topic. . . blah blah blah. SO he thought he was going to charm my socks off and two weeks later I'm within an inch of calling the coach, the academic coordinator, and the compliance officer (all of whom are people I know and who know me well). So what's the point? 

The point is, here's the challenge. When you have had a slam to your self-esteem like the one you just experienced (mine was two years ago and I'm rebuilding - I lost a lot, and I'll come back to that in a minute), you may not even be aware that you are pulling all the strength you have from any advantage point you think you have left to you just to survive and try to normalize things. I don't necessarily disagree with all the people who say the girl at the event realized she wasn't in your league, but I think if you trying to charm her, her charm meter was really sensitive. I also don't disagree that there's no harm getting your jollies in with a willing partner, but I would say be careful not to get in too deep too quickly. My h was a charmer, looking back on it. And he charmed his way right into another woman's pants. 

You need to find your manhood again. Going on a charm offensive and using your charm may not work with every woman. That may not be the best solution to your problem, and you not even be conscious that your charm offensive may need to be polished up a bit and used conscientiously in the right circumstances (if you're looking for a partner and not a lay). Seriously, go hang out with a bunch of guys, people you don't have to charm, people you know, and just be yourself, only be the laid back non-disciplined self (even if just for a few hours or a few days) that you've bottled with all your achievements and accomplishments. Turn loose of the type A personality for 24 hours. At the end of the day, if you lost everything, all you'd have is you. Who is that? 

I still have, to this day, from two years ago, a quote taped to the corner of my computer that I think came from Eric1. It says "Do what I did. Throw away everything you know about yourself and find your authenticity. Be who you want to be and consistently be that person. I strongly recommend getting over the pain of your story 100%, not only for yourself, but to also not hold it against future partners."

So I said I'm rebuilding and I lost a lot and I'd come back to it. My h's BS and D Day blew up just as I was about a year away from finishing a PhD dissertation. His health issues started just AFTER I had been admitted to the program, and I never dreamed he would attempt to solve, six years later, his health problems from kidney stone surgery by cheating on and betraying me with someone twenty years younger than him, 9 years younger than me. I had managed to handle his physical issues, his mental health issues, hold down a full time job and manage to get within an inch of my dissertation, and I lost it all. And I look 10 or more years younger than I am, but I used to look 15 years younger, and I've had surgery three times since he left. My independence and my looks are fading. He left me with nothing. The graduate college gave plenty of men 3, 4, 5 more years to keep going (and one guy got 20 years), but they wouldn't let me have ONE MORE YEAR. So the way I'm finally to the point of rebuilding is to sit on my couch and honestly say, I have lost EVERYthing. And what I haven't lost, I am going to lose. I lost my aspiration for an advanced degree and all that meant (including getting out of this crap job that has become a trap thanks to recent events with new hires). 

So the bottom line is, I ask myself, when you're looking in the mirror and you're all you've got, here's looking at you kid. Who are you? I'm pretty sure that I'm pretty proud of myself for the way I've handled all the chit that been's lobbed my way over the last 8 years. I have no regrets, other than not marching into the Grad College and demanding one more year. And I'll take that.

But for me it didn't get better until I acknowledged what I lost and decided to find ways to accept, hell, even embrace, and move on. I know you're only about six weeks past this, but you can do this. As Affaircare says, certain expectations and assumptions will continue to cause situations that create hurt for you. Someone else said that in six months you'll laugh off the rude episodes of being dumped. I think that is totally true. So who are you again?


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> I'm confused about this whole scenario at the party, but this is how I think it happened. Tell me if I'm wrong.
> 
> You have been in contact with this woman, I'll call her B. You and B were both going to the same event and you were looking forward to seeing her there. In the course of your discussion with B, you thought she had the same feelings about looking forward to seeing you there and thought it may turn into a date.
> 
> When you got to the event, B was friendly with you and you thought your feelings towards here were reciprocated. You thought things were moving forward. This was not in any manner discussed. It was inside of you.
> 
> B was engaging with other people and enjoying the event. She went outside for a smoke. A man pulled up in a car and she left with him.
> 
> If this is what happened, I don't think she did anything wrong nor did she ditch you, because she wasn't there with you in the first place. She was there as a single. She had probably been texting the man she left with for some time and had hoped he would be able to come get her. She likes you, but didn't realize you thought she was there with you. When she left, it never occurred to her to say good-bye and let you know what was going on just like she didn't walk the room and say good-bye to everyone she had spoken with that evening. You were just another person in the crowd who she enjoys connecting with.
> 
> When you left the event, did you go around and say good-bye to all the people you had spoken to earlier? Is this normal? Is this what actually happened?



You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Just to clarify: I had spent the night with her multiple times prior to the mixer. 

Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.

This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:

1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude

2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


----------



## eric1

Good things to be bothered about. It was a **** move no matter how you slice it. 

Don’t dwell on it though, not much you can do about people being jerks other than trying to not be one yourself


----------



## Cynthia

donesies said:


> You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.
> 
> This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:
> 
> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


I know a lot of people here are saying she was rude, but I'm not sure about that at all. Or if she was, it doesn't mean it was intentional. You don't know what happened on her end. She probably has no idea she hurt your feelings. I wouldn't recommend bringing it up to her though.

Despite that, I think you are responding from an already broken heart and any further pressure on that broken heart only makes it hurt worse.

This is what I was talking about a while back when I said that it is better to stay away from any kind of romantic entanglement. You are not free of the marriage that is ending and even after the divorce is final it may be a while before your heart is ready to move forward. Give it some time. If you broke a leg, you wouldn't be walking on it until it was ready for some pressure.


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Just to clarify: I had spent the night with her multiple times prior to the mixer.
> 
> Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.
> 
> This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:
> 
> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


Here is what happen with the girl, and it is really simple. You did not make a move quick enough, and if you had that night it would about 2 weeks too late on top of that. 

She likes you well enough but she wanted to get laid. She WAS probably a little miffed that you did not make a move fast enough frankly. 

That is all it is and it is probably actually good for you. You are not ready for this yet. 

You have not been dating for a while, and your rusty. It is not a big deal. Just learn from it. 

As far as the STBXW goes, I understand that all of that hurts. In a few months you will laugh at yourself for caring what about anything that she thinks or does. A little further down the road you will hardly think of her at all. 

It just takes time...


----------



## Fused

If you are the coach of a basketball team that is getting hammered you call timeout, you don't keep playing. You need to stop the momentum of the other team and re-assess your own strategy. Take time to get yourself healthy in both mind and body. Live for yourself for a while. You need to be in a far better frame of mind to deal with new relationships. If you try to force things too soon, you are limiting yourself to this type of woman. And I agree with the others who say she is rude and callous.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1.The upshot of all this is that you aren't thinking about STBXW. You are detaching. Excellent! 

2. This other stuff is kind of Jr High Drama. Next, Next, NEXT! 

3. You danced with this girl a couple of dances, but she is playing the room. Don't sit there and suck your thumb, grab another and dance with her.

4. This is socializing, getting back into the mix. Walking around the block before running a 10K.

5. You are a good looking, rich, fit, Doctor. You have one negative. You are still married and still wondering about "R". That is a big negative for anyone thinking about a relationship with you. Crying on a woman's shoulder about your lost love is NOT going to make you super attractive. It may help your healing but DO NOT think this will lead to a relationship.

6. You want someone to take you seriously? Get on with it and get your balls back! Then your problem will be which babe YOU want. The girls will be lined up asking YOU to dance!


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Just to clarify:* I had spent the night with her multiple times prior to the mixer*.
> 
> Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.
> 
> This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:
> 
> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


Okay so you and her had hooked up prior to this. Therefore this was a date. Sorry, even if it was only implied there was the expectation that she would most likely go home with you that night. 

The girl gets around...I'll give her that.

P.S. The more I think about it my guess is the BluesPower is right. She wanted sex and you weren't being aggressive enough. And she probably is getting tired of playing nursemaid to a jilted husband with a broken heart.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Spent the night multiple times doing what? Scrabble?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Townes

I think a lot of guys that are freshly out of marriages aren't accustomed to modern dating. When they like a girl, and especially if they have sex, a part of them feels like she "belongs" to them like their wife did. It really bothers them that they might be seeing other men. They'll deny this on an intellectual level, but they'll still feel that way. Like OP saying he knows this girl didn't do anything wrong, but he's still very hurt by her leaving with another man. It's an adjustment period for sure.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 1.The upshot of all this is that you aren't thinking about STBXW. You are detaching. Excellent!
> 
> 2. This other stuff is kind of Jr High Drama. Next, Next, NEXT!
> 
> 3. You danced with this girl a couple of dances, but she is playing the room. Don't sit there and suck your thumb, grab another and dance with her.
> 
> 4. This is socializing, getting back into the mix. Walking around the block before running a 10K.
> 
> 5. You are a good looking, rich, fit, Doctor. You have one negative. You are still married and still wondering about "R". That is a big negative for anyone thinking about a relationship with you. *Crying on a woman's shoulder about your lost love is NOT going to make you super attractive. It may help your healing but DO NOT think this will lead to a relationship.*
> 
> 6. You want someone to take you seriously? Get on with it and get your balls back! Then your problem will be which babe YOU want. The girls will be lined up asking YOU to dance!


I did NOT. I ONLY talk to you guys about that

Yeah - I will not give a girl my balls in a box


----------



## donesies

Elizabeth001 said:


> Spent the night multiple times doing what? Scrabble?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Parcheesi


----------



## VladDracul

donesies said:


> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


Like it or not, the chick owes you nothing. Too many men, if not openly expressing it are thinking it, believe if they date and/or sleep with a woman a couple of times, she is somewhat obligated to give the him first refusal before seeing other men. Good luck with that. It ain't happening with most chicks these days and your desire that she always treat you the way you want to be treated is a fairy tail. 
Take this to the bank. Before a woman forms an "attachment" that moves you to the top of her list and after she ditches you, she doesn't give a rats ass about your feelings. You can't take it as personal. She doesn't give a shyt enough for you to take it personal.
Here's the way to play it. Don't expect anything in the way of commitment from her until she clearly and unsolicited confirms she's committed to the relationship. These guys coming on here saying they were cheated on because she dated other guys after a few weeks of dating them have set themselves up to look like jackasses.


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Just to clarify: I had spent the night with her multiple times prior to the mixer.
> 
> Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.
> 
> This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:
> 
> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


You're treating this like it is a relationship, but it isn't. The way these things are handled is you go to a party to have a good time and she can join your or not, but either way you are supposed to have fun. If she sees you are having fun, talking with other people, and drawing attention from others then she'll naturally be more drawn to you as will others in the room. Remember she owes you nothing and you owe her nothing at this point, so don't have any expectations or disappointments.


----------



## Diana7

donesies said:


> You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Just to clarify: I had spent the night with her multiple times prior to the mixer.
> 
> Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.
> 
> This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:
> 
> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye


Honesty you are in no fit emotional estate to be even thinking of another woman. Its been such a short time and you
are still not over yourwife yet. You are also still married.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> I did NOT. I ONLY talk to you guys about that
> 
> Yeah - I will not give a girl my balls in a box


Okay, just sayin'. 

You are probably getting tired of my old coach stories. Too bad, here goes another one::grin2:

I had a kid that played for me years ago. 6'4" 225 lbs, LB & QB! Tough German kid. He wanted to be a fighter pilot when he grew up. (?) (Who in the hell wants to be a fighter pilot??? :surprise Well, ok, I get the Air Force Academy to come watch him play. He plays like crap the whole first half. :banghead: 

So at half-time I send the team down to the field & hold him back. (I didn't want any witnesses >). I hit him in the side of the helmet with my clipboard and call him a puzzie. He gets so mad he goes out and destroys the other team like a one man wrecking crew. 

He becomes one of the top fighter pilots in the *WORLD*. Don't ask me how, I don't know how he got that huge Aryan body in a fighter cockpit!?

Years later I write him on facebook and I say "Are you a General yet or do you need a clipboard treatment!"

He writes back, "LOL Coach, Everybody needs a clipboard treatment every once in a while! I'm a Bird Colonel, but I'm retiring and I'll be flying commercial from now on!" 

He took me out to breakfast last time he was in town. :smile2:

Donesies, Everybody needs a clipboard treatment every once in a while! Take it for what it is. We only want the best for you. Take what you can use and leave the rest behind. :wink2:


----------



## Satya

Sounds like you're disappointed in yourself because she turned out to be different than your expectations.
Because you slept together before, you assumed that she had the same value system you did, that you were becoming an item, and that she was going to be more exclusive to you. Then, she disappointed you massively.


----------



## donesies

Bananapeel said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are mostly correct about the events leading up the mixer and the mixer itself. Just to clarify: I had spent the night with her multiple times prior to the mixer.
> 
> Once again: she did nothing wrong. I understand that.
> 
> This is a problem inside of me for the most part. Problems are:
> 
> 1. I am bothered by the fact that she would rather leave the party to hang out with some other dude
> 
> 2. I am bothered that she left without saying goodbye
> 
> 
> 
> You're treating this like it is a relationship, but it isn't. The way these things are handled is you go to a party to have a good time and she can join your or not, but either way you are supposed to have fun. If she sees you are having fun, talking with other people, and drawing attention from others then she'll naturally be more drawn to you as will others in the room. Remember she owes you nothing and you owe her nothing at this point, so don't have any expectations or disappointments.
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t say I’m treating it like a relationship. I’m treating it like it was a date maybe. On a date, you don’t want your date up and running to the bathroom and disappearing and then someone telling you she jumped in a car with another dude.


----------



## donesies

Satya said:


> Sounds like you're disappointed in yourself because she turned out to be different than your expectations.
> Because you slept together before, you assumed that she had the same value system you did, that you were becoming an item, and that she was going to be more exclusive to you. Then, she disappointed you massively.


More like I’m disappointed in the rejection. She had me as an option that night and she chose someone else.

Others are probably right that it’s reopening the wound of OM and trying to figure out why stbxw was more attracted to him. Still unfathomable to me..


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I wouldn’t say I’m treating it like a relationship. I’m treating it like it was a date maybe. On a date, you don’t want your date up and running to the bathroom and disappearing and then someone telling you she jumped in a car with another dude.


I agree with you Donesies. I would have been supremely pissed. Even if I wasn't expecting to get a piece that night, I would still want the chick to at least level with me and tell me she'd rather leave and bang someone else. 

Scratch her off your book and move on.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> More like I’m disappointed in the rejection. *She had me as an option that night and she chose someone else.
> 
> *Others are probably right that it’s reopening the wound of OM and trying to figure out why stbxw was more attracted to him. Still unfathomable to me..


Like Vlad said, it's a whole different ballgame these days. It's all part of the grrrrrrl power movement. 

As for me? I don't play the game anymore. I'm 50 years old and have no time for all that happy horsesh!t. I prefer the old fashioned method of asking a gal out and going on a real date. 


...or hiring an escort. 



(Just kidding)


----------



## Satya

donesies said:


> More like I’m disappointed in the rejection. She had me as an option that night and she chose someone else.
> 
> Others are probably right that it’s reopening the wound of OM and trying to figure out why stbxw was more attracted to him. Still unfathomable to me..


Let the experience be a lesson, no more and no less.
I hope you do not intend to talk with her again.


----------



## Satya

bandit.45 said:


> Like Vlad said, it's a whole different ballgame these days. It's all part of the grrrrrrl power movement.


I don't know if it's to do with girl power. More, it's that no one has called her out on this kind of disrespectful and rude behavior.
That's more typically a sign of daddy issues.


----------



## donesies

Satya said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> More like I’m disappointed in the rejection. She had me as an option that night and she chose someone else.
> 
> Others are probably right that it’s reopening the wound of OM and trying to figure out why stbxw was more attracted to him. Still unfathomable to me..
> 
> 
> 
> Let the experience be a lesson, no more and no less.
> I hope you do not intend to talk with her again.
Click to expand...

 I do not


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> I wouldn’t say I’m treating it like a relationship. I’m treating it like it was a date maybe. On a date, you don’t want your date up and running to the bathroom and disappearing and then someone telling you she jumped in a car with another dude.


The problem is you considered it a "maybe" date which is ambiguous in nature. When you set a date there should be no question what it is. Ask women out using the word "date" and set a definitive day, time, place to go. Once that ambiguity is removed there is a different expectation of behavior on each side. 

However, and I tell my boys this regularly, you are under no obligation to continue a date that you start. You are free to walk out at any time, for any reason, and without explanation. You do not owe the other person your time, money, attention, or access to your body. While it's socially acceptable to be polite, don't hang out in a situation that you aren't comfortable with. If I had a daughter I'd tell her the same thing. So in my mind, her leaving was perfectly acceptable to do, even if it was a crap move and impolite. Your response should be wipe her out of your life for everything other than a sex buddy (if that fits in with your schedule and desires) because she's shown that she doesn't have enough respect for you to be anything more than that.


----------



## ABHale

Diana7 said:


> Honesty you are in no fit emotional estate to be even thinking of another woman. Its been such a short time and you
> are still not over yourwife yet. You are also still married.


Casually dating others can help with that.


----------



## ABHale

Dones wife has left the home and is dating others. I believe the marriage was over when her affair started, Done was just never informed.


----------



## bandit.45

Satya said:


> I don't know if it's to do with girl power. More, it's that no one has called her out on this kind of disrespectful and rude behavior.
> That's more typically a sign of daddy issues.


I dunno Satya.... young, single women today are as mercenary as men. Much more so than they were even twenty years ago. There is something societal driving it. I just know it.


----------



## bandit.45

ABHale said:


> Dones wife has left the home and is dating others. I believe the marriage was over when her affair started, Done was just never informed.


Agreed. 

The divorce process is underway and they are legally separated. He may be technically committing adultery, but he's not cheating.


----------



## Suspicious1

Okay, I've been out the dating game over 17 years or so. I'm almost 50 years old, so just so I can understand this.

If I like someone we're dating for a few weeks, sleeping and hanging around.
Things start heating up we get a bit more serious, months go by and we're walking holding hands down the streets, and she bumps in to some guy. 
They have small awkward talk, she introduces you both he tries to up show you with an obnoxious manly handshake. You stand there hearing little things that happend around your timeline together, details that juzt don't add up such as did you ever get a new cat since yours past. You're like hmm! 

They give each other a warm embrace and everyone goes their way. 
You get that sinking feeling they were more than just friends.

So you ask! 

Nice guy that Bruno!?!? You guys worked together??? 
She: No, we dated for a while! It didnt work out.
You: That's too bad. How does he know about snowball tge cat, that just happend a few months ago...

Her: Um, he was there for me, he did the research found the best vet for a peaceful solution for Snowball, he's such a sweet heart.

You: So when I called and I didn't hear from you for the whole long weekend back in February, and Tuesday finally came around you said you were upset about snowball, you was with Bruno?
Her.. Yes, is that a problem?!?!?!

So I'm a fool to think we were getting to know each other, or should I have been dating multiple people too?

Sorry to thread jacking, I've seen simular opinion posted on other threads, and I have always wanted to ask.

S1



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## donesies

Suspicious1 said:


> Okay, I've been out the dating game over 17 years or so. I'm almost 50 years old, so just so I can understand this.
> 
> If I like someone we're dating for a few weeks, sleeping and hanging around.
> Things start heating up we get a bit more serious, months go by and we're walking holding hands down the streets, and she bumps in to some guy.
> They have small awkward talk, she introduces you both he tries to up show you with an obnoxious manly handshake. You stand there hearing little things that happend around your timeline together, details that juzt don't add up such as did you ever get a new cat since yours past. You're like hmm!
> 
> They give each other a warm embrace and everyone goes their way.
> You get that sinking feeling they were more than just friends.
> 
> So you ask!
> 
> Nice guy that Bruno!?!? You guys worked together???
> She: No, we dated for a while! It didnt work out.
> You: That's too bad. How does he know about snowball tge cat, that just happend a few months ago...
> 
> Her: Um, he was there for me, he did the research found the best vet for a peaceful solution for Snowball, he's such a sweet heart.
> 
> You: So when I called and I didn't hear from you for the whole long weekend back in February, and Tuesday finally came around you said you were upset about snowball, you was with Bruno?
> Her.. Yes, is that a problem?!?!?!
> 
> So I'm a fool to think we were getting to know each other, or should I have been dating multiple people too?
> 
> Sorry to thread jacking, I've seen simular opinion posted on other threads, and I have always wanted to ask.
> 
> S1
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


I suspect that snowball was cheating


----------



## Townes

You were getting to know each other and she was dating other people. Nothing wrong with that unless you both agreed to an exclusive relationship. You were free to date other people or not. Up to you. It sounds like sex equals exclusivity to you. Nothing wrong with that, but there's also nothing wrong with other people feeling differently about it. Better to communicate clearly than assume things.


----------



## Townes

That was directed to suspicious. Didn't hit quote.


----------



## Bananapeel

@Suspicious1 - the issue here with "snowball" and the same issue that donesies is dealing with is directly due to a lack of communication with ambiguous expectations. I personally tell women upfront that I'm just dating casually now and if I find someone that I develop a deep connection with and we both want a committed and exclusive relationship, then we can explore that option. This basically puts the ball in their court to tell me what they want because there is no question where I stand. If they don't say they want a committed and exclusive relationship then I assume we are both open to dating other people. If they say they only date one person at a time then we can discuss it and decide if it is something that we both want. I'm not really bothered by what their dating style is as long as we both understand each other and can come to a mutually acceptable agreement.


----------



## VladDracul

Satya said:


> I don't know if it's to do with girl power. More, it's that no one has called her out on this kind of disrespectful and rude behavior.
> That's more typically a sign of daddy issues.


Men, and women, need to pay attention to what they are dealing with. They get so caught up in the "newness" of a new date they ignore the nuances. Men have virtually no talent for this until they are trained or train themselves after getting their azzes handed to them several times. Our doctor buddy probably got in this chicks britches quicker than he can writing a prescription for Amoxicillin. Men think when they can bed a women right off the bat its due to their prowess as a lover. Women know when a man want to jump right in the sack, he's just a horndog who would do the thing with any other woman and their sister.
When a woman sleep with you with little effort on your part, don't be surprised if you're not the only guy she's give it up to.


----------



## donesies

....

Nvm


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> Yep. Haven’t said a thing to her. We both know all the same people at the mixer. She knew I would hear about the dude picking her up. I’ve said nothing and don’t intend to.
> 
> I guess I’m ghosting 2 girls now 🙂


Why should she care that you heard about a guy picking her up? You two were not on a date. You did not escort her to the event. It was just a casual meeting at the same event.

You are reacting like this girl did this intentionally with the purpose of causing you pain. Which I doubt. I don't think your feelings ever entered her mind and why should they?

I think you need some professional help to deal with your feelings. Your pain and hurt because a casual female friend might have other plans rather than you is disturbing.


----------



## TDSC60

OMG - this just hit me.

My wife of many years gets upset when other people do not act the way see thinks they should or how she expected them to act. I mean she gets really upset! She obsesses over HOW they could act that way. "That way" being not how she expected them to respond.

Anything sounding familiar here Doc?

My wife has been diagnosed as OCD. I mean over the top OCD.


----------



## VladDracul

We're trying to help you doc. Using your credentials and good looks, you may be able to come out of the bucking shoot and stay in the saddle for 8 seconds, but you seem to have no clue about how to deal with the situation after that. Ghosting these two chicks my azz. My perspective, based on your own comments, if either one reached out, you'd be responding like a sailor to a port city cocktail waitress. The chicks are playing you like a $5.00 yard sale guitar.


----------



## donesies

TDSC60 said:


> Why should she care that you heard about a guy picking her up? You two were not on a date. You did not escort her to the event. It was just a casual meeting at the same event.
> 
> You are reacting like this girl did this intentionally with the purpose of causing you pain. Which I doubt. I don't think your feelings ever entered her mind and why should they?
> 
> I think you need some professional help to deal with your feelings. Your pain and hurt because a casual female friend might have other plans rather than you is disturbing.


Haha exaggerate much?

Yeah we had hooked up several times recently and we had talked about the event and meeting up there several times. You are correct that the label of date was not put on, but the undertones were there and we both knew it. She knew what she did would at least affect me - guaranteed.

Already getting professional help - I guess you didn't read the thread.


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> We're trying to help you doc. Using your credentials and good looks, you may be able to come out of the bucking shoot and stay in the saddle for 8 seconds, but you seem to have no clue about how to deal with the situation after that. Ghosting these two chicks my azz. My perspective, based on your own comments, if either one reached out, you'd be responding like a sailor to a port city cocktail waitress. The chicks are playing you like a $5.00 yard sale guitar.


As it so happens, this recent girl HAS reached out asking how things have been. I have answered pretty neutrally and just left it at that. I'm honestly just not that interested. A couple days of hard work in the hospital with people that have real problems will do a lot to numb the pain.


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> Haha exaggerate much?
> 
> Yeah we had hooked up several times recently and we had talked about the event and meeting up there several times. You are correct that the label of date was not put on, but the undertones were there and we both knew it. She knew what she did would at least affect me - guaranteed.
> 
> Already getting professional help - I guess you didn't read the thread.


I did read where you intended to seek help - but didn't see that you were.

What I do not get is why this is having such an effect on you. Something to discuss at your next appointment.


----------



## skerzoid

Jesus H. Christ

Can we move on?

Donesies:

We are all hanging on every thread you post. We are falling all over ourselves to help with your pain. Its like we are your parents and we want to spare you this stuff. 

We hyper-analyze every statement you make.

The truth is, we can't spare you this stuff. Its life happening. Its what people go through. 

Your STBXW is a real doozie. No one in their right mind would make the decisions she has made. That's why your story is so fascinating. She had it all and threw it in the dumpster for Fatboy. Who does that?

You are a big boy. You are going to come out of this better off than almost anyone of us could dream. We want you to get there without more pain. 

Right now, you are dealing with a bunch of characters from a daytime soap opera. Who are these people?!?!

Bear with us. We are trying figure them out too. But you can't fix stupid and you can't heal crazy. If you were my kid, there would be a bunch of people getting their azzes beat and I would be in jail! 

We care about you! Never fear about that FWIW.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> As it so happens, this recent girl HAS reached out asking how things have been. I have answered pretty neutrally and just left it at that. I'm honestly just not that interested. A couple days of hard work in the hospital with people that have real problems will do a lot to numb the pain.


So she put out feelers. She knew it was awkward. 

Whatever. 

I assume your wife has not contacted you again over the journal and you are not going to contact again the first guy's wife?


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> As it so happens, this recent girl HAS reached out asking how things have been. I have answered pretty neutrally and just left it at that. I'm honestly just not that interested. A couple days of hard work in the hospital with people that have real problems will do a lot to numb the pain.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So she put out feelers. She knew it was awkward.
> 
> Whatever.
> 
> I assume your wife has not contacted you again over the journal and you are not going to contact again the first guy's wife?
Click to expand...

She has not. I have asked 2 other people that I know to find her number. I will get it. I will still blow it up. I PROMISE THAT.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> She has not. I have asked 2 other people that I know to find her number. I will get it. I will still blow it up. I PROMISE THAT.


Best news I have heard on this thread. I have been waiting for the good doctor to find himself after getting a sucker punch.

Doc Nukem!!


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Jesus H. Christ
> 
> Can we move on?
> 
> Donesies:
> 
> We are all hanging on every thread you post. We are falling all over ourselves to help with your pain. Its like we are your parents and we want to spare you this stuff.
> 
> We hyper-analyze every statement you make.
> 
> The truth is, we can't spare you this stuff. Its life happening. Its what people go through.
> 
> Your STBXW is a real doozie. No one in their right mind would make the decisions she has made. That's why your story is so fascinating. She had it all and threw it in the dumpster for Fatboy. Who does that?
> 
> You are a big boy. You are going to come out of this better off than almost anyone of us could dream. We want you to get there without more pain.
> 
> Right now, you are dealing with a bunch of characters from a daytime soap opera. Who are these people?!?!
> 
> Bear with us. We are trying figure them out too. But you can't fix stupid and you can't heal crazy. If you were my kid, there would be a bunch of people getting their azzes beat and I would be in jail!
> 
> We care about you! Never fear about that FWIW.


You guys are amazing. Don’t know how I would have gotten through this without you


----------



## Marc878

@donesies

When you figure out that women are a want, not a need and gain your independence life will get a lot simpler, easier.

If you value yourself first others will too.

There's isn't a woman ever born that is worth wallowing in infidelity over.

You did the right thing upfront so stop second guessing yourself


----------



## Chaparral

Regarding your experience at the mixer, the bottom line is what she did was tasteless and she has no class. As a matter of of fact if she didn’t intend it to be a message of some sort, she’s just stupid. I would guess you missed something going on and she was trying to teach you a lesson.


----------



## VladDracul

There's this story I heard many, many years ago about a young man who had this thing about wanting to save this damsel in distress and believing if he succeeded, she'd be his forever. Y'all have heard this story to, right. I think the modern e-book title is, "When forever ends, Prince Charming becomes road kill"


----------



## skerzoid

donesies

So, no news is good news, right?


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> As it so happens, this recent girl HAS reached out asking how things have been. I have answered pretty neutrally and just left it at that. I'm honestly just not that interested. A couple days of hard work in the hospital with people that have real problems will do a lot to numb the pain.


Donesies your problems are real. 

What you feel is real. 

It’s just going to take a little time to get things back to some sort of normal. Talk it out that is what tam is hear for.


----------



## colingrant

When I dated, I came to realize that the process of elimination presented itself many times without me having to do anything. Potential partners eliminate themselves simply being themselves. I didn't get rid of them though as I would go straight for the sex since there was nothing to lose. No friendship or possible girlfriend due to quirkiness or some other fault. 

Learn to be grateful when the worst qualities come out early, as you can save money, time and trouble. The big three dating categories to me were, 

1) Wife material 
2) Beautiful women (eye candy, but don't allow your heart to be determined by your eyes. Guys make this mistake all the time) 
3) Fun - Easy to get along with. is easy to come by and keeps life fun. Could very well turn into a wife. 

Beautiful women can be intimidating, but they're actually like Oz in the wizard of Oz. Just regular people waiting for the right guy to have the balls to ask them out, but hiding behind a facade. High maintenance sometimes and they can be a little leery as they're accustomed to knuckleheads attempting to get with them so they're on the defensive a lot. After they see you're okay, then they'll start acting normal.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> donesies
> 
> So, no news is good news, right?


It’s just weird is all.

1. I got one email from my ex asking about some financial loose ends. No other word of any kind. She ended it saying she wished me well. 

2. I had a friend tell me that he knows that she is still seeing person #2. 

3. I met a mutual friend of OMW and he said he would make sure she found out and that OM had actually done this to OMW before several years ago and they had gone through church counseling and worked through it and decided to stay together.

4. Had some frustrating things happen financially. Nothing devastating - just frustrating. Sick of being taken advantage of by others just because I have a high income and am compassionate.

5. Other girl who left at the party is not much of a thought at this point. I really have too much else to on my plate and a lot of other women talking to me (online and in person) so it has really taken a backseat. She did message me once today with a funny message.

6. My biggest fear remains that my ex will lawyer up and try and to get more out of me at the court date. I haven’t heard anything regarding that though - do lawyers have to give you some kind of declaration that they are going to be representing the competition? I honestly don’t know what an attorney would do at this point given that she has already acted in accord with the contract. I just don’t want to deal with it and it extending the divorce process. Hopefully she feels the same way.

7. I did some amazing things in my career this last week, so that felt great!


----------



## [email protected]

What did your lawyer say?


----------



## SentHereForAReason

donesies - one thing that hit me today. I know you are having a hard time rationalizing all of this because the whole situation is irrational but because of how she traded down and so many other things but was wondering about this.

Your present health/looks/income situation. It sounds like we are relatable there. I don't have a super high paying job but I have a decent job and am the co-founder of a tech company that could work out very well for me if we were to finally able to sell down the road. I would not have much trouble picking up women and am in better shape now than when I was a Senior in High School but to these points!

When you were younger, let's say grade school through high school. How were you with women? Myself I was very insecure in that area, timid, shy and aside from that before I hit my super growth spurts in 4th Grade, I was chubby and didn't care about my hair, clothes, etc. Even when I started to thin out and become active in sports and had nice clothes, etc, I still had that timidness and shyness in me. So I didn't gain much experience and confidence in the girls' area before I met my wife. Me striking out with girls had more to do with me than them in terms of confidence and just being more outgoing but I took the fire of rejection and let that burn inside me to achieve a ton of goals in my life and once I got married and had kids, I was like, who cares about that now. I have everything I want in life. But now, as I go through divorce, it adds another stinger to my pile of hurt that here I go again with Rejection, something I thought was over in my life, with 17 years vested in the relationship.

Just curious, how were your younger days with women? Not sure if you are going through something similar or not.


----------



## Chaparral

She was fishing when she wished you well. Too late for that. She wanted some response, maybe she wanted you to wish her well too. Crickets is the best response. Wishing someone well you have just crucified is beyond the pale.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> It’s just weird is all.
> 
> 1. I got one email from my ex asking about some financial loose ends. No other word of any kind. She ended it saying she wished me well.
> 
> 2. I had a friend tell me that he knows that she is still seeing person #2.
> 
> 3. I met a mutual friend of OMW and he said he would make sure she found out and that OM had actually done this to OMW before several years ago and they had gone through church counseling and worked through it and decided to stay together.
> 
> 4. Had some frustrating things happen financially. Nothing devastating - just frustrating. Sick of being taken advantage of by others just because I have a high income and am compassionate.
> 
> 5. Other girl who left at the party is not much of a thought at this point. I really have too much else to on my plate and a lot of other women talking to me (online and in person) so it has really taken a backseat. She did message me once today with a funny message.
> 
> 6. My biggest fear remains that my ex will lawyer up and try and to get more out of me at the court date. I haven’t heard anything regarding that though - do lawyers have to give you some kind of declaration that they are going to be representing the competition? I honestly don’t know what an attorney would do at this point given that she has already acted in accord with the contract. I just don’t want to deal with it and it extending the divorce process. Hopefully she feels the same way.
> 
> 7. I did some amazing things in my career this last week, so that felt great!



1. She sounds detached. You are getting there. Time heals.

2. You would be better off not being told about her. Its like picking at a scab.

3. Yes, you need closure on that, at least knowing that she knows. Fatboy is a POS. He deserves everything you can give him. However, once exposing him, close him out of your actions.

4. This is the way of the world. You are fairly new at handling wealth. As a teacher/coach I never had any but still fell for a lot of phone calls asking for money. As P.T. Barnum used to say about suckers, "There's one born every minute." Find a charity that you trust, ignore the others. "I gave at the office." By the way, my favorite charity is the O.C.R.F. (Old Coaches Retirement Fund. We take cash donations only>)
Here is an article to help your research:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nancya...aritable-scam-before-you-donate/#7ececb8b5dd5

5. I would be civil, but she knew where you were, and she left you in worse shape. She may be funny, but not very compassionate. I would keep her at arms length.

6. One thing you could do is find out who the best attorneys in your area and contact them for advice. I believe that once you are in contact with them, they can't work for her. At the very least, they might say, "I can't, I have been in contact with your wife." THIS ADVICE IS COMING FROM A FOOTBALL COACH, NOT AN ATTORNEY.

7. Congratulations Doc!!!:smthumbup:


----------



## bandit.45

TDSC60 said:


> Why should she care that you heard about a guy picking her up? You two were not on a date. You did not escort her to the event. It was just a casual meeting at the same event.
> 
> You are reacting like this girl did this intentionally with the purpose of causing you pain. Which I doubt. I don't think your feelings ever entered her mind and why should they?
> 
> I think you need some professional help to deal with your feelings. Your pain and hurt because a casual female friend might have other plans rather than you is disturbing.


I think you're blowing this out of proportion a bit. There isn't anything disturbing here. You're making Donesies out to be some kind of whacko. He's not. Donesies is a serial monogamist... who has had his heart broken and is sort of fragile right now. He got thrown into a pool he didn't really want to swim in. He has been out of the dating scene for a long, long time. The rules have changed so much in just the past ten years. and women are way more socially transient and sexually aggressive than they were just ten years ago. Not anything wrong with that per se, but social evolution here in our country has progressed at light speed and most of us men (myself included) are having a hard time catching up. We are in the age of Grrrrl Power, and casual sex is now the domain and under total control of the ladies. 

Donesies is just going to have to get used to it and adapt like all us guys have to.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> As it so happens, this recent girl HAS reached out asking how things have been. I have answered pretty neutrally and just left it at that. I'm honestly just not that interested. A couple days of hard work in the hospital with people that have real problems will do a lot to numb the pain.


She knew that what she did was rude and now in hindsight she wishes she had ended the evening differently. 

You did good. Keep it neutral, chilly and let her lose interest and move on to the next batch of men. You don't need to be one of her rent-boys.


----------



## Thor

donesies said:


> 4. Had some frustrating things happen financially. Nothing devastating - just frustrating. Sick of being taken advantage of by others just because I have a high income and am compassionate.


My rule is if you ask for money, you won't ever get any!

I've picked several charities that have a personal meaning to me which I support. There are endless good causes and sad stories out there, but our individual resources are limited.

I've found that once you get on "the list" as a donor then your name and phone number get passed (sold!) to other charities. Pretty soon you're flooded with solicitations. For me this is why having those few charities I feel the personal connection to is important. It is easier to ignore the solicitations from other causes when I know my priorities are being serviced.


----------



## ButtPunch

bandit.45 said:


> She knew that what she did was rude and now in hindsight she wishes she had ended the evening differently.
> 
> You did good. Keep it neutral, chilly and let her lose interest and move on to the next batch of men. You don't need to be one of her rent-boys.


Yes in the dating world I would call this a red flag.

Don't ignore red flags.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Mrs. Ex-Donsies: "I wish you well. I was just looking for dirt on you a few weeks ago as sort of a hobby."


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> It’s just weird is all.
> 
> 1. I got one email from my ex asking about some financial loose ends. No other word of any kind. She ended it saying she wished me well.
> 
> 2. I had a friend tell me that he knows that she is still seeing person #2.
> 
> 3. I met a mutual friend of OMW and he said he would make sure she found out and that OM had actually done this to OMW before several years ago and they had gone through church counseling and worked through it and decided to stay together.
> 
> 4. Had some frustrating things happen financially. Nothing devastating - just frustrating. Sick of being taken advantage of by others just because I have a high income and am compassionate.
> 
> 5. Other girl who left at the party is not much of a thought at this point. I really have too much else to on my plate and a lot of other women talking to me (online and in person) so it has really taken a backseat. She did message me once today with a funny message.
> 
> 6. My biggest fear remains that my ex will lawyer up and try and to get more out of me at the court date. I haven’t heard anything regarding that though - do lawyers have to give you some kind of declaration that they are going to be representing the competition? I honestly don’t know what an attorney would do at this point given that she has already acted in accord with the contract. I just don’t want to deal with it and it extending the divorce process. Hopefully she feels the same way.
> 
> 7. I did some amazing things in my career this last week, so that felt great!


As for number 6. If your ex has retained an attorney to represent her and she instructs them to contest what she has already signed they have to file a notice with the court clerk that she now has representation and that they intend to contest. Then this new attorney is obligated to contact your attorney. Your attorney will also get a notice independently that she now has representation and they are going to contest. In general attorneys are "officers" of the court and they are obligated to work together to not waste the courts time. Doing so risks sanctions. 

If she shows up at the day of the hearing with an attorney who is not been declared and attempts to contest on the spot the judge will be really really annoyed for obvious reasons. I don't think you have anything to worry about.


----------



## bandit.45

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> As for number 6. If your ex has retained an attorney to represent her and she instructs them to contest what she has already signed they have to file a notice with the court clerk that she now has representation and that they intend to contest. Then this new attorney is obligated to contact your attorney. Your attorney will also get a notice independently that she now has representation and they are going to contest. In general attorneys are "officers" of the court and they are obligated to work together to not waste the courts time. Doing so risks sanctions.
> 
> If she shows up at the day of the hearing with an attorney who is not been declared and attempts to contest on the spot the judge will be really really annoyed for obvious reasons. I don't think you have anything to worry about.


And it is going to be very, very hard for her to re-tract and go back on a contract she agreed to in good faith and signed while in a right frame of mind. 

She had a responsibility, before signing the contract, to choose whether she wanted to hire counsel to review the contract before she signed it or not to. She chose not to. It would be hard to get a judge to let her renege on her agreements now.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> It’s just weird is all.
> 
> 1. I got one email from my ex asking about some financial loose ends. No other word of any kind. She ended it saying she wished me well.
> 
> 2. I had a friend tell me that he knows that she is still seeing person #2.
> 
> 3. I met a mutual friend of OMW and he said he would make sure she found out and that OM had actually done this to OMW before several years ago and they had gone through church counseling and worked through it and decided to stay together.
> 
> 4. Had some frustrating things happen financially. Nothing devastating - just frustrating. Sick of being taken advantage of by others just because I have a high income and am compassionate.
> 
> 5. Other girl who left at the party is not much of a thought at this point. I really have too much else to on my plate and a lot of other women talking to me (online and in person) so it has really taken a backseat. She did message me once today with a funny message.
> 
> 6. My biggest fear remains that my ex will lawyer up and try and to get more out of me at the court date. I haven’t heard anything regarding that though - do lawyers have to give you some kind of declaration that they are going to be representing the competition? I honestly don’t know what an attorney would do at this point given that she has already acted in accord with the contract. I just don’t want to deal with it and it extending the divorce process. Hopefully she feels the same way.
> 
> 7. I did some amazing things in my career this last week, so that felt great!


1) I wouldn't bother replying to that. 

2) Poor guy. 

3) Have OM's wife call you and meet her with the journal. 

4) Sorry to hear. 

5) Move her from back seat to rear view mirror. Who she dates is her business. But your business is not getting a STD from who she sleeps with. Not that she has been "mixing the guys" but she pretty much gave you notice. I wouldn't trust her. Next. 

6) * 

7) Good for you!


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> 6. My biggest fear remains that my ex will lawyer up and try and to get more out of me at the court date. I haven’t heard anything regarding that though - do lawyers have to give you some kind of declaration that they are going to be representing the competition? I honestly don’t know what an attorney would do at this point given that she has already acted in accord with the contract. I just don’t want to deal with it and it extending the divorce process. Hopefully she feels the same way.


I don't think you need to worry. 

Rarely have we seen a WS who is as detached as yours come across this website. Most WS, even if they are determined to leave a marriage, still have an intrinsic need to keep some kind of contact going with the person they are leaving, over a long period of time, until the cord finally snaps. Not your wife. I have rarely ever seen any spouse this detached, and I have been on this site for six years.


----------



## donesies

[email protected] said:


> What did your lawyer say?


About what?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> About what?


Your fear of her attempting to contest.


----------



## donesies

stillfightingforus said:


> donesies - one thing that hit me today. I know you are having a hard time rationalizing all of this because the whole situation is irrational but because of how she traded down and so many other things but was wondering about this.
> 
> Your present health/looks/income situation. It sounds like we are relatable there. I don't have a super high paying job but I have a decent job and am the co-founder of a tech company that could work out very well for me if we were to finally able to sell down the road. I would not have much trouble picking up women and am in better shape now than when I was a Senior in High School but to these points!
> 
> When you were younger, let's say grade school through high school. How were you with women? Myself I was very insecure in that area, timid, shy and aside from that before I hit my super growth spurts in 4th Grade, I was chubby and didn't care about my hair, clothes, etc. Even when I started to thin out and become active in sports and had nice clothes, etc, I still had that timidness and shyness in me. So I didn't gain much experience and confidence in the girls' area before I met my wife. Me striking out with girls had more to do with me than them in terms of confidence and just being more outgoing but I took the fire of rejection and let that burn inside me to achieve a ton of goals in my life and once I got married and had kids, I was like, who cares about that now. I have everything I want in life. But now, as I go through divorce, it adds another stinger to my pile of hurt that here I go again with Rejection, something I thought was over in my life, with 17 years vested in the relationship.
> 
> Just curious, how were your younger days with women? Not sure if you are going through something similar or not.


Eerily similar. Didn't have a ton of luck with women when I was in HS and College. Ironically, I look back and I was quite attractive, and obviously very smart as well, but I was awkward. I wouldn't say the rejection "takes me back." Honestly, the emotions I'm feeling now are all completely new to me.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Again as for #5. She wants to keep fishing for a reaction to the other night "like nothing happened". The elephant in the room...

Reply to her millennial memes with "OMG" and "LOL". "!!" and the rest of the triviality they burden each other with. 

When she sees you in public with someone else oblivious to her and her feelings she will then stop and leave you alone.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Eerily similar. Didn't have a ton of luck with women when I was in HS and College. Ironically, I look back and I was quite attractive, and obviously very smart as well, but I was awkward. I wouldn't say the rejection "takes me back." Honestly, the emotions I'm feeling now are all completely new to me.


You had an atom bomb set off in your lap my friend. There is nothing easy about what you are going through. 

Maybe you should heed some of the advice you have been given and just go celibate for a few months. You have a lot to process, and it is going to take a long time to heal without worrying about women. Work out, eat healthy, find your center, and later down the road you will be in a better frame of mind to make better choices about the women you date. Right now you're trying to fill the void your exWW left behind with anything you can stuff in it, and that is not healthy. 

You need to get used to walking around with a hole in you for a while. It will close up on its own. Don't try to fill it with fake styrofoam.


----------



## bandit.45

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Again as for #5. She wants to keep fishing for a reaction to the other night "like nothing happened". The elephant in the room...
> 
> Reply to her millennial memes with "OMG" and "LOL". "!!" and the rest of the triviality they burden each other with.
> 
> When she sees you in public with someone else oblivious to her and her feelings she will then stop and leave you alone.


Or just block her and be done with her. Don't drag it out. She was a piece of ass, nothing more, and no one he needs to continue being friends with.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Your fear of her attempting to contest.


When I brought it up before, he didn't think it was likely. He said most people don't like to escalate things. Plus he felt like her signing the papers and taking all the money and moving forward with buying all the crap she has seems pretty straight-forward. Basically, "she ate the steak"


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Again as for #5. She wants to keep fishing for a reaction to the other night "like nothing happened". The elephant in the room...
> 
> *Reply to her millennial memes with "OMG" and "LOL". "!!" and the rest of the triviality they burden each other with. *
> 
> When she sees you in public with someone else oblivious to her and her feelings she will then stop and leave you alone.


Yeah that's basically what I've been doing


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Eerily similar. Didn't have a ton of luck with women when I was in HS and College. Ironically, I look back and I was quite attractive, and obviously very smart as well, but I was awkward. I wouldn't say the rejection "takes me back." Honestly, the emotions I'm feeling now are all completely new to me.


Donesies

When I was in college I caught my high school sweetheart (she went to the same college as I) cheating, took her back, and promptly caught her cheating again. It wrecked me. But, it inoculated me.

I soon met the woman I would marry. Her ex had cheated with her sister. Our marriage is as solid as the rock of Gibraltar and has lasted 50 years as a relationship. But we both were inoculated for life by the pain and suffering we had faced with our exes. If I were to cheat on her or she me, believe me, there would be pain, but no mercy. We both know that.

Was this your first experience with heartbreak?

This may not be true for others, but my scar tissue has done wonders to spare me from the pain of "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." I hope that this will be true for you also.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies
> 
> When I was in college I caught my high school sweetheart (she went to the same college as I) cheating, took her back, and promptly caught her cheating again. It wrecked me. But, it inoculated me.
> 
> I soon met the woman I would marry. Her ex had cheated with her sister. Our marriage is as solid as the rock of Gibraltar and has lasted 50 years as a relationship. But we both were inoculated for life by the pain and suffering we had faced with our exes. If I were to cheat on her or she me, believe me, there would be pain, but no mercy. We both know that.
> 
> Was this your first experience with heartbreak?
> 
> This may not be true for others, but my scar tissue has done wonders to spare me from the pain of "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." I hope that this will be true for you also.


Yes. This is the first time I've experienced REAL heartbreak.


----------



## VladDracul

Doc, you may as well accept the fact that heartbreak is tough. Ain't no easy way around it. Additionally, a male with a broken heart tends to act in a manner that causes a lot of women to shy away. On the plus side, if you ever want to gauge your appeal to women, go to Match.com, or some other dating site and put up an ad that you're an attractive doctor. They'd have to double their band width to cover the responses.


----------



## skerzoid

VladDracul said:


> Doc, you may as well accept the fact that heartbreak is tough. Ain't no easy way around it. Additionally, a male with a broken heart tends to act in a manner that causes a lot of women to shy away. On the plus side, if you ever want to gauge your appeal to women, go to Match.com, or some other dating site and put up an ad that you're an attractive doctor. They'd have to double their band width to cover the responses.


:surprise::surprise::surprise:


----------



## donesies

VladDracul said:


> Doc, you may as well accept the fact that heartbreak is tough. Ain't no easy way around it. Additionally, a male with a broken heart tends to act in a manner that causes a lot of women to shy away. On the plus side, if you ever want to gauge your appeal to women, go to Match.com, or some other dating site and put up an ad that you're an attractive doctor. They'd have to double their band width to cover the responses.


Thanks, Vlad. Maybe I’ll test this one


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> Yes. This is the first time I've experienced REAL heartbreak.


Ahhh Hell!

Why didn't you say so earlier?

Poor guy


----------



## TDSC60

Be careful about putting too much info on any dating site.

Why? Like Vlad says, posting as a young, attractive Doctor will blow that site apart. You would be suffocated with offers. Or maybe that would not be too bad at this point? Just don't think about getting serious with anyone for at least a couple of years after the final contact with X.

Maybe my ignorance is showing. Having never used a dating website, I have no idea what info they require you to place there.


----------



## donesies

Well I would like to try online dating. In my town, I would guess that word would get back to my stbxw soon. My question is whether I should wait until everything is finalized. I guess I've waited this long, so....


----------



## Cynthia

I don't think you are in any shape to date. Plus you haven't finished with your marriage yet, since you are not divorced. Tie up loose ends before dating and get your heart mended. You are not going to find someone healthy to date while your heart is still bleeding all over the place.


----------



## donesies

CynthiaDe said:


> I don't think you are in any shape to date. Plus you haven't finished with your marriage yet, since you are not divorced. Tie up loose ends before dating and get your heart mended. You are not going to find someone healthy to date while your heart is still bleeding all over the place.


Recommendations seem to be all over the place. Getting ghosted by this other girl was awesome for helping me to stop thinking about my stbx. What do I have to wait for in order to take someone else out? I'm not looking for my next wife, but it would be nice to get to know some people.


----------



## Cynthia

Divorce is final, so there are not ties to your ex.

Once that is done, you need to be strong enough that you do not have any desire to discuss your ex with your date. Once you feel stronger and not needy. When you are looking for a mutual relationship rather than someone to fill a void.



donesies said:


> Recommendations seem to be all over the place. Getting ghosted by this other girl was awesome for helping me to stop thinking about my stbx. What do I have to wait for in order to take someone else out? I'm not looking for my next wife, but it would be nice to get to know some people.


----------



## Cynthia

I'll explain further.

When you are in a state of heartbreak you are likely to run into two main types of women.

The first will be a nice woman who will want to nurture you. She may remind you of your mother. You really don't need a woman who is going to mother you.

The second is the type who sees and opportunity. She does not have your best interests at heart, but you will think she does, because she's good at deceit. If you think your heart is broken now, you haven't seen anything until you've been burned by this woman. She will steal your kitchen sink on her way out.

There are others, but you get the point. You are in no condition to date right now.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Well I would like to try online dating. In my town, I would guess that word would get back to my stbxw soon. My question is whether I should wait until everything is finalized. I guess I've waited this long, so....


You owe her nothing in terms of consideration. She gave you none. Remember that.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Recommendations seem to be all over the place. Getting ghosted by this other girl was awesome for helping me to stop thinking about my stbx. What do I have to wait for in order to take someone else out? I'm not looking for my next wife, but it would be nice to get to know some people.


Wait until tonight. Just keep your guard up.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Thanks, Vlad. Maybe I’ll test this one


Donesies, when I was young, back in the Stone Age, we had dances where you could go and just meet people. That seems to have gone away and on-line dating seems to be the thing now. 

No one says you have to respond to inquiries on Match.com. You could just get an idea of your possibilities. 

And if you see someone that catches your eye, start a conversation. This doesn't mean start a courtship.

Just meet people. Talk. Ask questions. May be hold off on the "I'm a filthy rich Doctor with great abs looking for Mrs. Right." stuff.

But just like investing your money, picking a charity, etc. this is something you really want to be careful with. 

Its kind of like what the Supreme Court Justice said when asked to define pornography: "I know it when I see it."

When you meet a good candidate, you will know it when you see it. :smile2:


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> I'm not looking for my next wife, but it would be nice to get to know some people.


Every dude says this. Let me jump in my time machine and tell you what you're going to say after dating and falling for another crazy one you're convinced is beyond amazing.

*"What the hell was I thinking? I'm in no way ready for this BS."*


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> Well I would like to try online dating. In my town, I would guess that word would get back to my stbxw soon. My question is whether I should wait until everything is finalized. I guess I've waited this long, so....


Tell em your nickname is Horse >


----------



## cc48kel

I said this awhile ago that you should wait until the divorce is final... Continue going to therapy and do things for you that make you happy. Or try a new hobby.. Not sure I would be dating at this point.. But if you must, how about a few towns over?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Marc878 said:


> Tell em your nickname is Horse >


Or even MEAT (as in MEAT LOAF)! But on a more serious note, IMO there is no problem with dating. But do not expect too much from it and do not read anything into it such as ghosting girls etc. Treat it more as a very light diversion. Focus on healing/improving yourself.


----------



## TeddieG

CynthiaDe said:


> Divorce is final, so there are not ties to your ex.
> 
> Once that is done,* you need to be strong enough that you do not have any desire to discuss your ex with your date.* Once you feel stronger and not needy. When you are looking for a mutual relationship rather than someone to fill a void.


This. Yes, how you talk about your ex will tell you how over all this you are. For years while the h was disintegrating physically and mentally, but I wasn't sure if he was staying or going, getting help or running, I went to a favorite watering hole with some friends who were also regulars. Or I'd go on my own and sit in a nice quiet booth, order a glass of wine, and read. I didn't talk to any of my friends there about what was happening with ex because I didn't want that to be the conversation all the time, or bum them out. They were regulars there and sometimes I'd come in and find any or all of them there, and there would be new people we'd all chat with. I never brought it up, save once. Generally I talked about my issues with my counselor. I did finally talk to one guy about what was going on, and he wanted to start dating. As someone as said, he saw a vulnerability and tried to exploit it. He said I look like a young Kelly McGillis (I actually look like Lee Remmick). I didn't bite. 

For the most part, I let my pals think I was working on my marriage if the subject came up of "how's your h?" I would just say, well, with his recent surgery and health issues, we've hit a slight bump, but we'll be okay. And in part, I was hiding the shame of him cheating on me with a woman 20 years younger than he, a woman who didn't want to work and wanted to stay home and eat bon bons thanks to his military retirement and income, so she could greet her elementary school aged kid at the door at 3:30. She always said she didn't want him to be a latch-key kid (her previous two had turned 18 a few years before and the child support was going to stop, so she had another kid. The father was smart enough not to marry her and demand a paternity test before he paid child support. She was looking for a paycheck). Here I was, holding down a full time job, in a PhD program, and looking at a brighter future for both of us, with h's full support (at least in the beginning). 

But now, two years after the divorce, when I meet new people and they ask me if I have kids, am I married, blah blah blah, I calmly say, I'm divorced, no kids. Then I explain that I was once married, my h hit a bump with health issues and didn't handle it well, and he left me. 

End of. 

It's a thing in the past, from my past. It happened. I'm still standing, still breathing, and still upright. I've got to worry about life from here out, not the ghosts of life past. 

That doesn't mean I'm ready to date. But I'm making new friends, and seeking other options for a job change, and moving in to my new house. Life is not great, but it gets better. And I'm a damn site better off than a lot of women already living at poverty level whose h leaves them.


----------



## bandit.45

manfromlamancha said:


> Or even MEAT (as in MEAT LOAF)! But on a more serious note, IMO there is no problem with dating. But do not expect too much from it and do not read anything into it such as ghosting girls etc. Treat it more as a very light diversion. Focus on healing/improving yourself.


What was that movie with the college boys and one of them was nicknamed "Meat" because he had a humongous knob? He asked a girl on a date and the other guys were yelling "No Meat Don't! You'll kill her!!" :laugh:


----------



## badmemory

bandit.45 said:


> What was that movie with the college boys and one of them was nicknamed "Meat" because he had a humongous knob? He asked a girl on a date and the other guys were yelling "No Meat Don't! You'll kill her!!" :laugh:


Porky's.


----------



## bandit.45

badmemory said:


> Porky's.


Yep! Thank you. 

That was a great film. Very funny.


----------



## skerzoid

bandit.45 said:


> Yep! Thank you.
> 
> That was a great film. Very funny.


Yes, very funny:|

Aannyywwaayy, Donesies, you are a reasonably intelligent person, I would think (being a physician and all:wink2, and you are not in middle school, so you don't need the talk.

However, as you were saying about finances and such, you are still new at some parts of this. This dating stuff is something new because the dynamic is different. When you were single before, you were not all that, just Joe Blow, college student. 

Okay, everybody is worried about you going out and falling for the first gold digger that tries to vamp you and you go all googlie eyed and ask her to marry you. Well, yes, they're out there, and they are digging' away. That would seem normal as you are all studly and rich now. 

Just watch a few videos on youtube under "gold digger" or "gold digger prank" and you will get the idea. However, like I say, be aware, be careful, and take your time easing back in. Your experience with Funnygirl might give you pause, for you DID start a backslide, so be aware of your feelings. 

Have some fun, but approach it as practice till you get your cajones back where they belong and don't let the first gal to throw herself at you put them in her purse. >


----------



## donesies

TeddieG said:


> This. Yes, how you talk about your ex will tell you how over all this you are. For years while the h was disintegrating physically and mentally, but I wasn't sure if he was staying or going, getting help or running, I went to a favorite watering hole with some friends who were also regulars. Or I'd go on my own and sit in a nice quiet booth, order a glass of wine, and read. I didn't talk to any of my friends there about what was happening with ex because I didn't want that to be the conversation all the time, or bum them out. They were regulars there and sometimes I'd come in and find any or all of them there, and there would be new people we'd all chat with. I never brought it up, save once. Generally I talked about my issues with my counselor. I did finally talk to one guy about what was going on, and he wanted to start dating. As someone as said, he saw a vulnerability and tried to exploit it. He said I look like a young Kelly McGillis (I actually look like Lee Remmick). I didn't bite.
> 
> For the most part, I let my pals think I was working on my marriage if the subject came up of "how's your h?" I would just say, well, with his recent surgery and health issues, we've hit a slight bump, but we'll be okay. And in part, I was hiding the shame of him cheating on me with a woman 20 years younger than he, a woman who didn't want to work and wanted to stay home and eat bon bons thanks to his military retirement and income, so she could greet her elementary school aged kid at the door at 3:30. She always said she didn't want him to be a latch-key kid (her previous two had turned 18 a few years before and the child support was going to stop, so she had another kid. The father was smart enough not to marry her and demand a paternity test before he paid child support. She was looking for a paycheck). Here I was, holding down a full time job, in a PhD program, and looking at a brighter future for both of us, with h's full support (at least in the beginning).
> 
> But now, two years after the divorce, when I meet new people and they ask me if I have kids, am I married, blah blah blah, I calmly say, I'm divorced, no kids. Then I explain that I was once married, my h hit a bump with health issues and didn't handle it well, and he left me.
> 
> End of.
> 
> It's a thing in the past, from my past. It happened. I'm still standing, still breathing, and still upright. I've got to worry about life from here out, not the ghosts of life past.
> 
> That doesn't mean I'm ready to date. But I'm making new friends, and seeking other options for a job change, and moving in to my new house. Life is not great, but it gets better. And I'm a damn site better off than a lot of women already living at poverty level whose h leaves them.


I commend you for your strength, @TeddieG 

I have done very little in terms of discussing my ex with others - only if they ask, which has happened. In that case, I've been honest and to the point and then dropped it.

I'm surprised at how much meeting new people and getting out without my ring and just owning this thing has done.


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> Yep! Thank you.
> 
> That was a great film. Very funny.


----------



## Tron

Beulah Balbricker!!!










I think I was 14 or 15 when Porky's came out. Buddy of mine and I had to sneak in to see it cause we couldn't get into R rated movies. 

Laughed our a$$es off. Fun times!


----------



## TeddieG

donesies said:


> I commend you for your strength, @TeddieG
> 
> I have done very little in terms of discussing my ex with others - only if they ask, which has happened. In that case, I've been honest and to the point and then dropped it.
> 
> I'm surprised at how much meeting new people and getting out without my ring and just owning this thing has done.


Thanks, Donesies. You're doing doing great. And to your last point, exactly.


----------



## skerzoid

Not much happening around here so I will tell the only clean joke that I know:

A guy is out of work, so he goes to the local zoo to see if they have any jobs.

They tell him that they only have one job, that their gorilla just died and they need someone to wear a monkey suit and pretend to be the gorilla.

He thinks about it and since times are tough, he says "Yes".

Now once he gets into the job, he finds out that it ain't to bad; people throw him bananas & peanuts and all he has to do is sleep and swing on the trapeze once in a while.

So one day he is swinging on the trapeze, and he pumps, and he pumps, and he pumps, and then the rope breaks.

He flys over the wall and lands in the lion's den. The lions jump up, and he jumps up and starts running. The lions all start chasing him, so he starts screaming, "Help! Help! Save Me! Save me!

Finally one of the lions runs over and tackles him and whispers in his ear, "You better shut up or you're going to get us all fired!!" :grin2:


----------



## kekkek

Just caught up on this entire thread, at least what Donesies wrote and a good chunk of the rest. I have to congratulate him on moving fast to divorce. In my case, I had to live through an 18 month separation in order to get an uncontested divorce without lawyers. There was no money worth contesting! Thankfully laws in my state have changed since then. I artificially maintained harmony with my ex during that period to keep the divorce smooth. 

Like Donesies case, she never really showed remorse. Unlike Donesies, because of the nature of the disclosure, I knew immediately that no reconciliation was in the cards. I have no regrets about dumping my ex, more the opposite feeling of winning the lottery. It was painful for a while for sure, but I am also of the opinion that a cheating spouse is pretty worthless - not as an overall human being, but definitely to the BS. Like others mentioned, if you reoncile, do you want to spend all your long working hours wondering what she is doing, and who with? Just no.

Like Donesies, my ex cheated with a dude that had some loser characteristics: an ex con (although started a new career), older, had a kid, exwife. But apparently was charming, although I never met him. But I didn't lose sleep wondering why. He cheated with a cheater. I knew I didn't want a cheater as a wife. Do you? Sudden loneliness was more the problem for me, but Donesies has a lot going on.

If he is only weeks away from actual divorce, I think it makes sense to stay away from women entirely until then. In my case, I met my second wife about a year after my D-day. I wasn't seeking her out, more like a bolt out of the blue. But it was still embarassing and awkward to be not divorced yet.

Donesies seems too emotional just now to be dating. Nothing wrong with that after the shock he had, but it just seems like it would be more likely to lead to trouble than not. But I am someone who tends to fall for people, and so it is hard for me to understand dating as a rational selection process.

Mostly, I just wanted to reassure him that others have made it through this process and come out better in every way. Given his circumstances, in 6 months he will have a completely new life and not give his cheating wife a second thought. All the best!


----------



## Elizabeth001

kekkek said:


> Just caught up on this entire thread, at least what Donesies wrote and a good chunk of the rest. I have to congratulate him on moving fast to divorce. In my case, I had to live through an 18 month separation in order to get an uncontested divorce without lawyers. There was no money worth contesting! Thankfully laws in my state have changed since then. I artificially maintained harmony with my ex during that period to keep the divorce smooth.
> 
> 
> 
> Like Donesies case, she never really showed remorse. Unlike Donesies, because of the nature of the disclosure, I knew immediately that no reconciliation was in the cards. I have no regrets about dumping my ex, more the opposite feeling of winning the lottery. It was painful for a while for sure, but I am also of the opinion that a cheating spouse is pretty worthless - not as an overall human being, but definitely to the BS. Like others mentioned, if you reoncile, do you want to spend all your long working hours wondering what she is doing, and who with? Just no.
> 
> 
> 
> Like Donesies, my ex cheated with a dude that had some loser characteristics: an ex con (although started a new career), older, had a kid, exwife. But apparently was charming, although I never met him. But I didn't lose sleep wondering why. He cheated with a cheater. I knew I didn't want a cheater as a wife. Do you? Sudden loneliness was more the problem for me, but Donesies has a lot going on.
> 
> 
> 
> If he is only weeks away from actual divorce, I think it makes sense to stay away from women entirely until then. In my case, I met my second wife about a year after my D-day. I wasn't seeking her out, more like a bolt out of the blue. But it was still embarassing and awkward to be not divorced yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Donesies seems too emotional just now to be dating. Nothing wrong with that after the shock he had, but it just seems like it would be more likely to lead to trouble than not. But I am someone who tends to fall for people, and so it is hard for me to understand dating as a rational selection process.
> 
> 
> 
> Mostly, I just wanted to reassure him that others have made it through this process and come out better in every way. Given his circumstances, in 6 months he will have a completely new life and not give his cheating wife a second thought. All the best!




Excellent post!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## donesies

So much happened, but really hasn’t...most of the work and experience has been internal....

I broke the news to my partners and everyone in my practice. Some were suspecting and I didnt want them catching me out on a date and wondering wtf.

I have been on a few dates. One especially knocked my socks off. I could not have displayed a better version of myself - I feel like the date went beautifully. I was smart and exciting and got her talking and laughing. It felt great. Then I waited a couple days after the date to say anything (she didn’t either) and then I asked her out again. She replied that she had something going on that day and would let me know. She didn’t. Sort of deflating.

Others have shown entirely too much interest and it bugs the crap out of me. I’m a yes man and so I have pretty much said yes to all social functions I’ve been asked to and it’s been exhausting.

I ran into POSOM at a coffee shop the other day. He was with his 3 little girls. I didn’t say a word. He didn’t either. Don’t even know if he recognized me to tell the truth. To my shame, I listened to music and avoided looking in his direction. I was scared or nervous or something. I know I have every right to hold my head up high, and I imagined 1000 times what I would say to him if I ever saw him. I guess the answer is nothing.

Not a single word from my ex. No word from the girl at the party/mixer.

I’ve had a month straight of hard work and no real signs of slowing. Internal and external demands are piling up. I did have an infusion of some really good news though: my best friend is moving back to my town. He had been living 2000 miles away. He is single.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Doc,

next time you see him you look him straight in the eyes, stare him down and i would have definitely how your wife was so he knew you knew...i don't care if his kids were there or not...the shame is on him not you...look him down. Cheaters are cowards remember that...they sulk in the shadows of decency and honestly. 

also remember even the great Ted Williams never got a home run every time he came up to bat. frankly i truly see you meeting the right one at more of a social function when neither one of you have an agenda.


----------



## As'laDain

donesies said:


> So much happened, but really hasn’t...most of the work and experience has been internal....
> 
> I broke the news to my partners and everyone in my practice. Some were suspecting and I didnt want them catching me out on a date and wondering wtf.
> 
> I have been on a few dates. *One especially knocked my socks off. I could not have displayed a better version of myself - I feel like the date went beautifully. I was smart and exciting and got her talking and laughing. It felt great. Then I waited a couple days after the date to say anything (she didn’t either) and then I asked her out again. She replied that she had something going on that day and would let me know. She didn’t. Sort of deflating.*
> 
> Others have shown entirely too much interest and it bugs the crap out of me. I’m a yes man and so I have pretty much said yes to all social functions I’ve been asked to and it’s been exhausting.
> 
> I ran into POSOM at a coffee shop the other day. He was with his 3 little girls. I didn’t say a word. He didn’t either. Don’t even know if he recognized me to tell the truth. To my shame, I listened to music and avoided looking in his direction. I was scared or nervous or something. I know I have every right to hold my head up high, and I imagined 1000 times what I would say to him if I ever saw him. I guess the answer is nothing.
> 
> Not a single word from my ex. No word from the girl at the party/mixer.
> 
> I’ve had a month straight of hard work and no real signs of slowing. Internal and external demands are piling up. I did have an infusion of some really good news though: my best friend is moving back to my town. He had been living 2000 miles away. He is single.


what on earth are you doing? stop trying to impress women. you are a doctor for christs sake. next time you are on a date, dont try to present a good version of yourself, spend your time finding out if your date is even interesting enough to go on another date with. if you think she is, tell her so. if she is interested in another date, she will let you know. 

look, you have a lot to offer. do NOT try to impress women. anyone can see passed that crap. just have fun and see judge them silently as they will judge you. everyone is always judging each other on first dates, as a universal rule. just accept it, have fun. learn. chat. if you look at it this way, you will know within the first five minutes whether you will go on another date.

ETA: people always give out that cliche about "being yourself". it always seems to confusing to us men because how can we be anything BUT ourselves? its actually kinda simple though. dont focus on yourself. dont try to present an image. focus on where you are and who you are with. when your focus is on the world around you, you are paying attention, and your natural self is what comes out. the second you start focusing inward, you start trying to modify yourself. it shows when you do it.


----------



## donesies

As'laDain said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much happened, but really hasn’t...most of the work and experience has been internal....
> 
> I broke the news to my partners and everyone in my practice. Some were suspecting and I didnt want them catching me out on a date and wondering wtf.
> 
> I have been on a few dates. *One especially knocked my socks off. I could not have displayed a better version of myself - I feel like the date went beautifully. I was smart and exciting and got her talking and laughing. It felt great. Then I waited a couple days after the date to say anything (she didn’t either) and then I asked her out again. She replied that she had something going on that day and would let me know. She didn’t. Sort of deflating.*
> 
> Others have shown entirely too much interest and it bugs the crap out of me. I’m a yes man and so I have pretty much said yes to all social functions I’ve been asked to and it’s been exhausting.
> 
> I ran into POSOM at a coffee shop the other day. He was with his 3 little girls. I didn’t say a word. He didn’t either. Don’t even know if he recognized me to tell the truth. To my shame, I listened to music and avoided looking in his direction. I was scared or nervous or something. I know I have every right to hold my head up high, and I imagined 1000 times what I would say to him if I ever saw him. I guess the answer is nothing.
> 
> Not a single word from my ex. No word from the girl at the party/mixer.
> 
> I’ve had a month straight of hard work and no real signs of slowing. Internal and external demands are piling up. I did have an infusion of some really good news though: my best friend is moving back to my town. He had been living 2000 miles away. He is single.
> 
> 
> 
> what on earth are you doing? stop trying to impress women. you are a doctor for christs sake. next time you are on a date, dont try to present a good version of yourself, spend your time finding out if your date is even interesting enough to go on another date with. if you think she is, tell her so. if she is interested in another date, she will let you know.
> 
> look, you have a lot to offer. do NOT try to impress women. anyone can see passed that crap. just have fun and see judge them silently as they will judge you. everyone is always judging each other on first dates, as a universal rule. just accept it, have fun. learn. chat. if you look at it this way, you will know within the first five minutes whether you will go on another date.
> 
> ETA: people always give out that cliche about "being yourself". it always seems to confusing to us men because how can we be anything BUT ourselves? its actually kinda simple though. dont focus on yourself. dont try to present an image. focus on where you are and who you are with. when your focus is on the world around you, you are paying attention, and your natural self is what comes out. the second you start focusing inward, you start trying to modify yourself. it shows when you do it.
Click to expand...

Well I definitely wouldn’t say I was someone else. It felt very organic. We had so much in common that it somewhat blows my mind that she wasn’t pining for a second date. I guess it is possible that she is just really busy, but this is typically not how someone who wants a second date acts. In any case, attraction is an odd thing. I learned that from my ex leaving me for OM. And just to be clear: I’m not sitting around obsessing over this girl - I’m just logically sorting this out while understanding that I probably will never figure this out logically.


----------



## As'laDain

donesies said:


> Well I definitely wouldn’t say I was someone else. It felt very organic. We had so much in common that it somewhat blows my mind that she wasn’t pining for a second date. I guess it is possible that she is just really busy, but this is typically not how someone who wants a second date acts. In any case, attraction is an odd thing. I learned that from my ex leaving me for OM. And just to be clear: I’m not sitting around obsessing over this girl - I’m just logically sorting this out while understanding that I probably will never figure this out logically.


you could always go with a mail order bride. 

i know a lot of women here will probably balk at this, but statistics show a MUCH higher chance of success with mail order marriages than with modern western marriages. if i were single and wanted a marriage today, thats probably what i would do. i do not like most younger western women. there are exceptions to the rule, but they typically demand more than they are worth, to me at least. 

the only thing i demand is a willingness to work with me.


----------



## SunCMars

donesies said:


> We had so much in common that it somewhat blows my mind that she wasn’t pining for a second date.


It is not that she had so much in common, it is that she is 'so practiced', so refined in pleasing, emulating her dates.
She can make a date night go smooth, because she is smooth. She can parrot her date.

It may be that you were too commonly alike.
It is also likely that she wants to get close to people who are not her mirror image.
People who stimulate her. 

Stimulate those spots, those areas in her mind that are rusty.
Rusty from no recent stimulation. Men who set her mind on fire, maybe her pantaloons, too.

It also may be that she likes to date, is not 'presently 'interested in finding a mate.
She may enjoy the company of men, in general. You fit that, except for your education.
She may not, likely is not, lonely. She is not needy.

She is light hearted, not wedded to Drama.

Likely, you are Plain Andy, not Plain Randy.
Likely, she would end up being cool, not warm to the touch.




King Brian-

It could be that she is looking to hook up.
Hook up, not with a nice man, a gentleman, maybe with a smooth talking wolf. 
Likely not, this. 
Dunno. Never met her.


----------



## alte Dame

I'm hoping you will take a deep breath and find a comfort level with the good man that you are. When you are thrown off your game, it can be very difficult to rebuild your ego. You can't force it, I don't think. Just take a step back and try to be chill when you are on a date. Just be the comfortable you. Your ego will follow in its healing, in my opinion.

And if it were me who saw the POS in a coffee shop, I'd pull my chair right up to within an inch of his table and make sure he's made uncomfortable enough to leave.


----------



## As'laDain

i would probably go over to his table, as i am about to leave, and loudly shout to the entire establishment that THIS was the man that decided to CHEAT on his own wife, with MY wife, and RUINED at least one family, if not two. and no, i would not care if his kids heard it. 

and then i would walk out.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Well I definitely wouldn’t say I was someone else. It felt very organic. We had so much in common that it somewhat blows my mind that she wasn’t pining for a second date. I guess it is possible that she is just really busy, but this is typically not how someone who wants a second date acts. In any case, attraction is an odd thing. I learned that from my ex leaving me for OM. And just to be clear: I’m not sitting around obsessing over this girl - I’m just logically sorting this out while understanding that I probably will never figure this out logically.


Donesies:

1. The girl you were really interested in may be playing hard to get. Its been known to happen. My wife ran till she caught me. On my wedding day, I looked in the boutonnière I wore and there was a fish hook! Sneaky gal!

OR

2. The girl you are interested in may be too much like you; remember, opposites attract. 

3. You are doing great! Its All in the game. 

4. If Fatboy had his children with him, you did the right thing in not confronting him. In fact, he owes you no explanation. He's a POS. Confronting him just lowers you. Its your wife who made the vows, "For richer, for poorer, forsaking all others, in sickness and in health, till death do us part." She is the traitor. She is far below him.


----------



## VFW

You need to slow down big guy and just put some time and distance between you and ex. Don't feel like you have to replace her anytime soon. Just enjoy the company of a few young ladies and eventually there will be a keeper out there.


----------



## SunCMars

alte Dame said:


> I'm hoping you will take a deep breath and find a comfort level with the good man that you are. When you are thrown off your game, it can be very difficult to rebuild your ego. You can't force it, I don't think. Just take a step back and try to be chill when you are on a date. Just be the comfortable you. Your ego will follow in its healing, in my opinion.
> 
> And if it were me who saw the POS in a coffee shop, I'd pull my chair right up to within an inch of his table and make sure he's made uncomfortable enough to leave.


MY! ....AD, not quite BC, 

WOW! :surprise:

I did not know you had had 'it' in you.

I guess, I too can be surprised, by those that toot and type.
Type next to, right alongside you.

Wow, again!

A little fire from a Grand Alte Dame. :grin2:



King Brian, now from NZ.


----------



## SunCMars

As'laDain said:


> i would probably go over to his table, as i am about to leave, and loudly shout to the entire establishment that THIS was the man that decided to CHEAT on his own wife, with MY wife, and RUINED at least one family, if not two. and no, i would not care if his kids heard it.
> 
> and then i would walk out.


Ah, yes....

But then...

If he yelled back, fought back, it would not be pretty.

Once the words fly out of one's mouth, the fists follow. My fists would not listen to reason. 
Listen to sanity, maybe listen to Hannity.

Jail, 'she' not be pretty.

Felony assault. Tempting, not a good enough reason to lose your medical license.

These things, if they go that far, need to done in the dark of night. No witnesses. 





The Red Queen- The Host sleeps


----------



## As'laDain

SunCMars said:


> Ah, yes....
> 
> But then...
> 
> If he yelled back, fought back, it would not be pretty.
> 
> Once the words fly out of one's mouth, the fists follow. My fists would not listen to reason.
> Listen to sanity, maybe listen to Hannity.
> 
> Jail, 'she' not be pretty.
> 
> Felony assault. Tempting, not a good enough reason to lose your medical license.
> 
> These things, if they go that far, need to done in the dark of night. No witnesses.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Red Queen- The Host sleeps



do you have no experience with manipulating the emotions of others?


----------



## SunCMars

As'laDain said:


> do you have no experience with manipulating the emotions of others?


Who is it you ask this question?

The Avatar's Host and his Head Mates 'did'.

I do so admirably.

I institute fear, manipulate men's feet to run.

To beat feet, burn shoe leather.

Their man-yip-yip-You-lated choice: It is either to run or to be smote. 
Smoke, a puff, gone.

Do not Thee, taunt ME. :FIREdevil:



The Red Queen-


----------



## alte Dame

SunCMars said:


> MY! ....AD, not quite BC,
> 
> WOW! :surprise:
> 
> I did not know you had had 'it' in you.
> 
> I guess, I too can be surprised, by those that toot and type.
> Type next to, right alongside you.
> 
> Wow, again!
> 
> A little fire from a Grand Alte Dame. :grin2:
> 
> 
> 
> King Brian, now from NZ.



Yes, well.....I'm actually known for 'low talking' my firm (and surprisingly aggressive) truths to people who have crossed a line and whose presence can't be avoided.


----------



## Bananapeel

Donsies - Women that like you and want to date you will make it easy for you to date them, so her not showing interest basically means that you should write her off. For example, if you ask her out and she's busy but she doesn't propose an alternative date/time (i.e. doesn't make it easy to plan something else), that means she's not really interested. But if she is busy and gives you her schedule of available times for the next week (i.e. makes it easy for you to plan something else), then she wants to see you again. That one is a waste of your time because she's not interested. The best thing to do is ignore her and if she changes her mind and wants to date you, just trust that she'll be the one to let you know. It can take a long time, and I've had women "suddenly" decide they were interested in dating me and contact me more than a year after we met.


----------



## Andy1001

donesies said:


> Well I definitely wouldn’t say I was someone else. It felt very organic. We had so much in common that it somewhat blows my mind that she wasn’t pining for a second date. I guess it is possible that she is just really busy, but this is typically not how someone who wants a second date acts. In any case, attraction is an odd thing. I learned that from my ex leaving me for OM. And just to be clear: I’m not sitting around obsessing over this girl - I’m just logically sorting this out while understanding that I probably will never figure this out logically.


Do you think you may be trying too hard with these women,are you coming across as kind of desperate for female companionship?
You saying you showed the best of yourself is kind of strange,after all you were only on a first date you weren’t getting ready to propose.
Your friend moving back is a good sign,you can act as wingmen for one another.If I could give you one piece of advice it would be to go out to a few bars or night clubs and have some fun,maybe a one night stand or two would help clean out your pipes as it were.
Remember the old saying “Physician heal thyself”.

Another thing,always ring a date the next day,do not text.Tell her how much you enjoyed meeting her and the date.Ask her how does she feel about going out again without mentioning any specific night and her reply will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## bandit.45

Donesies why do you feel compelled to date? 

Are you trying to prove something to the people around you? Or to yourself? 

I think you need to be taking that time and working on healing and self improvement. Spend that date money on a good therapist who can help you with the pain you are going through.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> Donesies why do you feel compelled to date?
> 
> Are you trying to prove something to the people around you? Or to yourself?
> 
> I think you need to be taking that time and working on healing and self improvement. Spend that date money on a good therapist who can help you with the pain you are going through.


1. Neither. I like female companionship

2. I have enough money for both


----------



## Cromer

@donesies man, I'm pulling for you. I hope the universe balances the books on this sooooo badly.


----------



## donesies

Andy1001 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I definitely wouldn’t say I was someone else. It felt very organic. We had so much in common that it somewhat blows my mind that she wasn’t pining for a second date. I guess it is possible that she is just really busy, but this is typically not how someone who wants a second date acts. In any case, attraction is an odd thing. I learned that from my ex leaving me for OM. And just to be clear: I’m not sitting around obsessing over this girl - I’m just logically sorting this out while understanding that I probably will never figure this out logically.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you think you may be trying too hard with these women,are you coming across as kind of desperate for female companionship?
> You saying you showed the best of yourself is kind of strange,after all you were only on a first date you weren’t getting ready to propose.
> Your friend moving back is a good sign,you can act as wingmen for one another.If I could give you one piece of advice it would be to go out to a few bars or night clubs and have some fun,maybe a one night stand or two would help clean out your pipes as it were.
> Remember the old saying “Physician heal thyself”.
> 
> Another thing,always ring a date the next day,do not text.Tell her how much you enjoyed meeting her and the date.Ask her how does she feel about going out again without mentioning any specific night and her reply will tell you all you need to know.
Click to expand...

I SINCERELY doubt they think I’m desperate. But either way: it’s not true. This one had potential, but oh well. Onward and upward.

What I mean about being the best version of myself is that, sometimes things just work. Sometimes, after a long day, I can tell that I’m not firing on all cylinders. I’m not quite as articulate or witty (etc.) as normal.

This was different. I was just “on.” I was fun and sharp and Felt like the best version of myself. Afterwords I remember thinking: if this were a job interview, they would’ve given it to me on the spot. But it wasn’t...and she sure as hell didn’t.


----------



## kekkek

Other posters have suggested that Donesies take some time to "work on himself". He doesn't seem like the type to sit around and contemplate. But his current approach will not lead to success - he cannot continue to be "more" - to train harder, be more witty and articulate, more "on" as he says - because dating, or life itself, is not a job interview that he can win. What I would suggest is for him to take up a completely new hobby, maybe something he would not have considered before - maybe underwater basket-weaving - and just see where it takes him. If he takes his enormous energy and puts it into something unexpected, that may lead to either a relationship or a personal discovery that surprises him.


----------



## ABHale

SunCMars said:


> Who is it you ask this question?
> 
> The Avatar's Host and his Head Mates 'did'.
> 
> I do so admirably.
> 
> I institute fear, manipulate men's feet to run.
> 
> To beat feet, burn shoe leather.
> 
> Their man-yip-yip-You-lated choice: It is either to run or to be smote.
> Smoke, a puff, gone.
> 
> Do not Thee, taunt ME. :FIREdevil:
> 
> 
> 
> The Red Queen-


:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## SunCMars

donesies said:


> I SINCERELY doubt they think I’m desperate. But either way: it’s not true. This one had potential, but oh well. Onward and upward.
> 
> What I mean about this buying the best version of myself is that, sometimes things just work. Sometimes, after a long day, I can tell that I’m not firing on all cylinders. I’m. It quite as articulate or witty, etc as normal.
> 
> This was different. I was just “on.” I was fun and sharp and Felt like the best version of myself. Afterwords I remember thinking: if this were a job interview, they would’ve given it to me on the spot. But it wasn’t...and she sure as hell didn’t.


She was not looking for a LTR.
She was not looking to be impressed.
She was not looking to get laid.

She was looking to be wooed..
She was looking to be feted.
She was looking to be complimented.
She was looking to be told how smart she is.
She was looking to be told how attractive she is.
She was looking to be told how lucky she is.

She was there to be complimented, to feel good 'that evening' with you.

And she was there to be fed, have a glass of wine, have a comfortable night with a 'nice' man.

You filled in an open spot in her dating calendar.

You made her feel wanted, to feel desirable.

She is saving her open spots and her normally closed 'slot' for special dates.

For those shared eateries that bring spice, that bring heat, to her face and to her nether regions.

...........................................................................................................................................................

My guess... she is already in love with another man. Has another man in mind and will 'settle' for 'very few' or no other than 'he', in this interim period.

He, this OM, may be far away, may be too busy, or may be 'presently' unavailable, is occupied, maybe married.

She is 'saving' herself for him.

You, your type fill her calendar of events. This other man fills her heart and likely her slot. Time after hopeful time.

Few, or no man can win over a women who has a {filled with love} heart. 
At least not rapidly. Maybe do so, over a long period of time. 
Or, just being lucky, having the perfect chemistry for her.

You may get some of them in the sack, those women who say, "Sex is just sex".
These ladies will give you their body, but not their love, not their heart, not their devotion, not their loyalty.


Just Sayin'

King Brian-


----------



## lucy999

Please know I truly don't mean this in a mean spirited tone. Absolutely zero snark in my post. 

But I'm starting to wonder if you're coming across as a tad bit too cocky and a smidge arrogant? Are you not used to 'losing' in life?

Perhaps you're missing a little humility? 

Listen, I get that your whole life has been decimated. Your ego has taken a huge hit. I get it. And I am so very sorry.

But there is just something about the tone of your posts, not just lately, but early on, that have left me with these observations.


----------



## BigDigg

lucy999 said:


> But I'm starting to wonder if you're coming across as a tad bit too cocky and a smidge arrogant? Are you not used to 'losing' in life?
> 
> Perhaps you're missing a little humility?
> 
> Listen, I get that your whole life has been decimated. Your ego has taken a huge hit. I get it. And I am so very sorry.
> 
> But there is just something about the tone of your posts, not just lately, but early on, that have left me with these observations.


I pick this up a bit too in many of his posts...but then that's not entirely uncommon with doctors. I have several as friends and for some reason their careers, specialties, cases etc. just always come up all the time. It's especially terrible when 2 or more of them are together as you can guarantee that a good portion of a conversation will somehow steer that way. Good people and best of friends but years and years of everyone's effusive praise and interest in their schooling, careers (sometimes genuine, sometimes polite) can make even good people a little self-centered even if they don't mean to be or are aware. 

Related side story - A couple of weeks ago my wife and I went to dinner. It was a really tight packed restaurant so you practically had to tune out other tables conversations. Sitting next to us was a new physician (residency or just post) and his date. It was clearly a first date. Literally the entire time this guy talked entirely about medical school, testing, whats so great about his hospital and group, where he could go etc. To his credit the girl did ask a bunch of softball questions but she was pretty obviously turned off and just making conversation to get through the date. The couple times the conversation did go off him he somehow found a way to steer it back. At one point I went to the restroom and got a chance to see them (they were seated behind me) and this dude was grinning and having the time of his life talking about himself. The girl looked like she would rather be anywhere else. Doubt the guy picked up on any of it. My wife and I couldn't help but listen in and roll eyes.

BTW - not at all saying that's the good dr. here.


----------



## BigDigg

Hey @donesies - I know you're eager to jump back in to the dating scene and no one but yourself can or should judge on that. One challenge - did your STBXW or marriage come up at all? Even if you nailed the date there are probably a lot of women that would be wary of a guy that is still technically married (didn't read all recent threads but assume this is still pending) and literally just got separated 1mo. ago.

Could imagine that a quality girl might be suitable impressed and infatuated but could look at that as a big red flag.


----------



## BigDigg

<Double Post>


----------



## donesies

lucy999 said:


> Please know I truly don't mean this in a mean spirited tone. Absolutely zero snark in my post.
> 
> But I'm starting to wonder if you're coming across as a tad bit too cocky and a smidge arrogant? Are you not used to 'losing' in life?
> 
> Perhaps you're missing a little humility?
> 
> Listen, I get that your whole life has been decimated. Your ego has taken a huge hit. I get it. And I am so very sorry.
> 
> But there is just something about the tone of your posts, not just lately, but early on, that have left me with these observations.


I appreciate your thoughts. I think this came up before in the thread, but I'll address it here again in a bit more detail:

Firstly, this is the internet and this is an anonymous support forum. In a venue such as this, it makes no sense hiding who you are or what you do. It only makes sense to be real. I talk about myself and describe my credentials to set the stage to give you background and some context for the things that follow. This is an artificial atmosphere by nature and I wouldn't necessarily assume people communicate the same in real life.

Secondly, you bring up the unfortunate part about being a doctor and a high earner. Both on here and in the real world, people ARE LOOKING for you to be arrogant. They WANT to validate their assumptions and stereotypes of you. If something I say can be taken 2 different ways, and one of them is a smidge arrogant, they will INVARIABLY take it that way. I was so hypersensitive about it for so many years that, to this day, there are many of my friends that have absolutely no idea what I do for a living. I would just keep changing the subject when it came up or give a half-truth and leave it at that.

I don't come from money or a doctor family - far from it. For most of my life, I made very little money. Most of my hobbies are cheap and very few of my friends are doctors. My house is not opulent. My car is not flashy. It's true that I do question my STBXW running off with fat, broke, married OM as strange because of all that I have to offer, but that's pretty understandable to virtually everyone here. To regard that confusion and statements to that effect as arrogant is really a stretch and means that you're reaching for something, consciously or not.


----------



## donesies

BigDigg said:


> Hey @donesies - I know you're eager to jump back in to the dating scene and no one but yourself can or should judge on that. One challenge - did your STBXW or marriage come up at all? Even if you nailed the date there are probably a lot of women that would be wary of a guy that is still technically married (didn't read all recent threads but assume this is still pending) and literally just got separated 1mo. ago.
> 
> Could imagine that a quality girl might be suitable impressed and infatuated but could look at that as a big red flag.


It's been almost 2 months now since D-day. Not officially D yet, but that's coming up (again, avoiding specifics). My marriage situation did not come up on the date.


----------



## Chaparral

donesies said:


> I SINCERELY doubt they think I’m desperate. But either way: it’s not true. This one had potential, but oh well. Onward and upward.
> 
> What I mean about being the best version of myself is that, sometimes things just work. Sometimes, after a long day, I can tell that I’m not firing on all cylinders. I’m not quite as articulate or witty (etc.) as normal.
> 
> This was different. I was just “on.” I was fun and sharp and Felt like the best version of myself. Afterwords I remember thinking: if this were a job interview, they would’ve given it to me on the spot. But it wasn’t...and she sure as hell didn’t.


Did she know you were going through a divorce? This just may be her not wanting to get involved with someone in your situation. Lots of divorces fall through. She might also been busy. She may be waiting to see if you will try harder to get a second date. Maybe you aren’t persistent enough. Faint heart fair maiden never won.


----------



## donesies

Chaparral said:


> Did she know you were going through a divorce? This just may be her not wanting to get involved with someone in your situation. Lots of divorces fall through. She might also been busy. She may be waiting to see if you will try harder to get a second date. Maybe you aren’t persistent enough. Faint heart fair maiden never won.


Marriage situation didn't come up at all. In any case, I'm not chasing her, so I guess this maiden won't be


----------



## lucy999

@donesies Thank you for taking my post in the spirit in which it was intended. 

Fair enough. I can't argue with anything you've said.


----------



## donesies

lucy999 said:


> @donesies Thank you for taking my post in the spirit in which it was intended.
> 
> Fair enough. I can't argue with anything you've said.


Of course. Thanks for your feedback and input.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

D, I still think you should take a vacation away from work and home.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> I SINCERELY doubt they think I’m desperate. But either way: it’s not true. This one had potential, but oh well. Onward and upward.
> 
> What I mean about being the best version of myself is that, sometimes things just work. Sometimes, after a long day, I can tell that I’m not firing on all cylinders. I’m not quite as articulate or witty (etc.) as normal.
> 
> This was different. I was just “on.” I was fun and sharp and Felt like the best version of myself. Afterwords I remember thinking: if this were a job interview, they would’ve given it to me on the spot. But it wasn’t...and she sure as hell didn’t.


 She was probably looking for the bad boy, ex-con loser type. You dodged a bullet. Don't sweat it and keep on truckin'.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

I guess you didn't take this class in medical school:


----------



## bandit.45

Donesies you never came across as arrogant to me. You come across as matter-of-fact and direct. Nothing wrong with that. You work in a discipline that requires accuracy of thought and speech. Don’t try to change yourself to please others.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> I guess you didn't take this class in medical school:


It's not part of the curriculum


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Women are a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.


----------



## Red Sonja

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> Women are a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma.


The only women I know like that are toddlers, teenagers or mentally ill. It's the same case for men. The enigma resolves when you start to listen to the POV of others.


----------



## Cromer

Red Sonja said:


> The only women I know like that are toddlers, teenagers or mentally ill. It's the same case for men. The enigma resolves when you start to listen to the POV of others.


You left out the cheating psycho ex's. A big enigma there.


----------



## skerzoid

Red Sonja said:


> The only women I know like that are toddlers, teenagers or mentally ill. It's the same case for men. The enigma resolves when you start to listen to the POV of others.


Little girls are just short women. Men are just tall little boys>:smile2:


----------



## skerzoid

Crickets?


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Crickets?


For some reason, I can't post from my phone so I had to wait until I was back at work today...

I guess not a lot has changed. Had a few (very) brief interactions with STBXW. She has been civil. No signs of a crack in the veneer. 

I discovered that OM has had a number of affairs with various women around town. I mentioned another a bit ago, but I have learned of more. Not sure how he has so much luck with the ladies...weird. I guess that's neither here nor there.

I have gone back and forth between missing STBXW and not. As hard as it is to accept, I do still love her. But at the same time, it's not like she's a ****ing celebrity...I see a girl every single day that I'm more attracted to, but damn they are tough to reel in. My game isn't great...I went out with a new girl the other night and I think I got too intellectual. She's medical and she was explaining what she did for work and I was genuinely interested so I kept asking her questions....long story short: date didn't end with intimacy and I'm fairly sure she hooked up with someone else that night :surprise:

I'm good at attracting girls and getting that first date, but getting the second date is proving to be difficult! Not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong, but I feel like I've crashed and burned with the last 3


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> For some reason, I can't post from my phone so I had to wait until I was back at work today...
> 
> I guess not a lot has changed. Had a few (very) brief interactions with STBXW. She has been civil. No signs of a crack in the veneer.
> 
> I discovered that OM has had a number of affairs with various women around town. I mentioned another a bit ago, but I have learned of more. Not sure how he has so much luck with the ladies...weird. I guess that's neither here nor there.
> 
> I have gone back and forth between missing STBXW and not. As hard as it is to accept, I do still love her. But at the same time, it's not like she's not a ****ing celebrity...I see a girl every single day that I'm more attracted to, but damn they are tough to reel in. My game isn't great...I went out with a new girl the other night and I think I got too intellectual. She's medical and she was explaining what she did for work and I was genuinely interested so I kept asking her questions....long story short: date didn't end with intimacy and I'm fairly sure she hooked up with someone else that night :surprise:
> 
> I'm good at attracting girls and getting that first date, but getting the second date is proving to be difficult! Not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong, but I feel like I've crashed and burned with the last 3


I'll tell you what's wrong.

You need to put some time and distance between you and skank.

Be happy being alone and single first.

Trust me. Once you do this, your problems with the the ladies will solve themselves.


----------



## Noble1

Take the above advice to heart.

Maybe stop dating for awhile and just focus on learning who you are.

You have gone through a very significant life event that has impacted you in ways you most likely don't even know.

You have all the time in the world to find and start a new relationship for the long term.

Find out what makes you happy and do that for awhile.

Then, once you get over some of the feelings for you ex (and it will happen) then you have a more solid foundation to build a relationship on with someone else.

Good luck.


----------



## just got it 55

donesies said:


> For some reason, I can't post from my phone so I had to wait until I was back at work today...
> 
> I guess not a lot has changed. Had a few (very) brief interactions with STBXW. She has been civil. No signs of a crack in the veneer.
> 
> I discovered that OM has had a number of affairs with various women around town. I mentioned another a bit ago, but I have learned of more. Not sure how he has so much luck with the ladies...weird. I guess that's neither here nor there.
> 
> I have gone back and forth between missing STBXW and not. As hard as it is to accept, I do still love her. But at the same time, it's not like she's not a ****ing celebrity...I see a girl every single day that I'm more attracted to, but damn they are tough to reel in. My game isn't great...I went out with a new girl the other night and I think I got too intellectual. She's medical and she was explaining what she did for work and I was genuinely interested so I kept asking her questions....long story short: date didn't end with intimacy and I'm fairly sure she hooked up with someone else that night :surprise:
> 
> I'm good at attracting girls and getting that first date, but getting the second date is proving to be difficult! Not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong, but I feel like I've crashed and burned with the last 3


Done would you just f.....ing lighten up on yourself.

You are acting like an infielder in the ninth inning of a no hitter praying for the ball to go anywhere but to you.

55


----------



## donesies

just got it 55 said:


> Done would you just f.....ing lighten up on yourself.
> 
> You are acting like an infielder in the ninth inning of a no hitter praying for the ball to go anywhere but to you.
> 
> 55


Not totally sure I follow


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> Not totally sure I follow


You are totally focused on what women think of you. How they react to you. Why they do not react the way you expect them to. Ask yourself why that is.

To achieve happiness in a relationship, you have to be happy with yourself. Your self image is trashed and until you are comfortable just being yourself and are self confident enough to not need others to make you happy, you will not attract very many quality women.


----------



## Elizabeth001

TDSC60 said:


> You are totally focused on what women think of you. How they react to you. Why they do not react the way you expect them to. Ask yourself why that is.
> 
> 
> 
> To achieve happiness in a relationship, you have to be happy with yourself. Your self image is trashed and until you are comfortable just being yourself and are self confident enough to not need others to make you happy, you will not attract very many quality women.




Spit it! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ABHale

I think he needs to find some quality women first. Some I don’t see much quality in a woman that goes on a date with one guy then hooks up with another the same night. 

You need to take a tropical vacation. Get away to some place warm and relax for a week.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Remember my post on right brain/left brain? Stop trying to date scientists. Date some who are artists, poets, writers, musicians. Opposites attract. Your ex was a musician, right? The scientist you wanted to boink probably was looking for a rocker or a poet. You bored her. She wasn't looking for a scholarly discussion. Marilyn Monroe was attracted to left brainers. 

You should look for your opposite not your twin. Stop looking for someone who you have things in common with. Maybe an airhead with large knockers.

My nephew is a big time physician. His first finance was another physician. They broke up. He married a hair dresser. My niece is a physician's assistant. She married a farmer. They are as happy as clams.

You should be looking for a little nookie, not a soulmate.


----------



## alte Dame

Your WW has damaged your self-image and ego and you are trying hard to keep those things intact. I think we all get it, but your worth isn't just the sum of what other people think of you. You need to understand your true worth yourself. This sounds cliché, I know, but there it is.

Step back and let yourself heal. The OM has something that you don't see and your WW got ensnared by it. I can tell you, I've known so many women in my life who were so attractive to men, but I just couldn't see it. It is one of the mysteries of life....

Try to focus on the other things in your life besides female companionship. If you want the sexual play, then find someone on the same page and do that. Otherwise, get off the mental merry-go-round and give yourself a real break. Just suspend your efforts in the 'love' aspect of your life. Make a deadline. Say you are on sabbatical for the next three months. And then just live.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> For some reason, I can't post from my phone so I had to wait until I was back at work today...
> 
> I guess not a lot has changed. Had a few (very) brief interactions with STBXW. She has been civil. No signs of a crack in the veneer.
> 
> I discovered that OM has had a number of affairs with various women around town. I mentioned another a bit ago, but I have learned of more. Not sure how he has so much luck with the ladies...weird. I guess that's neither here nor there.
> 
> I have gone back and forth between missing STBXW and not. As hard as it is to accept, I do still love her. But at the same time, it's not like she's a ****ing celebrity...I see a girl every single day that I'm more attracted to, but damn they are tough to reel in. My game isn't great...I went out with a new girl the other night and I think I got too intellectual. She's medical and she was explaining what she did for work and I was genuinely interested so I kept asking her questions....long story short: date didn't end with intimacy and I'm fairly sure she hooked up with someone else that night :surprise:
> 
> I'm good at attracting girls and getting that first date, but getting the second date is proving to be difficult! Not exactly sure what I'm doing wrong, but I feel like I've crashed and burned with the last 3


Its been 2 months, Did you ever get a message to the OM's wife? 

waiting for a crack in your wife's veneer is an exercise in futility. You know she back stabbed you, she knows and so does everyone here and who knows you both. Move on. 

The women your age and at your professional level have lots of options and play lots of dating games. Just have a good time and expect nothing more. They want to date 5 guys a week you will figure it out quickly and then decide do you want to swap spit with 5 other guys a week. 

Try and give yourself a break. Like mentioned before here anyone who has just had the misfortune of betrayal like you have carries that aura like an albatross around. The women sense it and stay guarded. Give yourself time to heal. It will go away.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Its been 2 months, Did you ever get a message to the OM's wife?
> 
> waiting for a crack in your wife's veneer is an exercise in futility. You know she back stabbed you, she knows and so does everyone here and who knows you both. Move on.
> 
> The women your age and at your professional level have lots of options and play lots of dating games. Just have a good time and expect nothing more. They want to date 5 guys a week you will figure it out quickly and then decide do you want to swap spit with 5 other guys a week.
> 
> Try and give yourself a break. Like mentioned before here anyone who has just had the misfortune of betrayal like you have carries that aura like an albatross around. The women sense it and stay guarded. Give yourself time to heal. It will go away.


Lots of updates:

1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed

2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


----------



## Lostinthought61

donesies said:


> Lots of updates:
> 
> 1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed
> 
> 2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


It's one thing to know still another to see evidence...the mind has a way of doubting itself but with proof there is no doubt and with that she took it out on you...misplaced anger.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Lots of updates:
> 
> 1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed
> 
> 2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


Your ex is truly a rotten person. How she can look at herself in the mirror and collect alimony from you is beyond me. Absolutely cold heart-ed. She will attract her counterpart in time and then as misery loves company her wheel of karma will be complete. 

For your sake I hope you don't waste precious time on this earth waiting for an explanation from her. She is too much of a dishonest coward to provide it. Be grateful you did not make babies with her and have to deal with her forever. Be truly grateful. 

As for OM's wife just misplaced anger on her part. You did your human diligence.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Lots of updates:
> 
> 1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed
> 
> 2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


1. It is my belief that her miscarriages broke her. When she looks at you, she feels a failure as a mother and a wife. She wants a new life where she doesn't have to face those failures. It isn't you that failed. Its her. Move on.

2. The other man's wife has seen this before and just rug sweeps. They can't afford lawyers, she's got no job, and three kids to feed. She's pretty much stuck with the POS. Once again, you are a reminder of an uncomfortable truth.

3. This is a new life for you. I know you still can't accept it yet. I think you need to get out of town for a while, maybe a sabbatical. You said you just got some sort of award or promotion. Does that tie you to this place? Might be worth it to see some country, or even another country. Think about it.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

skerzoid said:


> 1. It is my belief that her miscarriages broke her.


I completely agree. This is a common theme in here. I've concluded that women have a really strong innate desire to make viable children. Some of them go haywire when a failure occurs. The failure can manifest as infertility, miscarriage, or the birth of a special-needs child. These seem to be catalysts for some women to start seeking a different mate that she unconsciously believes will produce the viable offspring that her husband could not. I'm not even sure she's aware that it's happening. All she knows is that she's interested in other men when she wasn't before. The rational side of her even often uses birth control while the irrational, primitive side continues with mating activity, however futile. 

You look at someone like LtCdrLost over at SI. He really had no idea his wife was capable of the LTA she was involved in. And she probably wasn't capable of it for most of their marriage. But somewhere in a recent post, several days into the thread, he mentioned her miscarriages. I think the miscarriages reprogrammed her brain.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> Not totally sure I follow


What 55 means is you are scared / nervous that if something came along (ground ball / nice girl)

you would find some way to screw it up. You are placing un-necessary pressure upon yourself.

About dating.... I was M from age 25-40 so.... my advice may vary, but not much. Getting a date...

really doesn't mean much. Maybe it was from OLD or even in person. Still... you only know, what they

present. That is why today, most have meet n greet / coffee dates. Just to gauge if they are

true with who they claim they are and if there might be chemistry. The first few dates..... too many

guys have this "I must impress her" mentality.... complete BS. The first few dates are mainly to

figure out if they are "into you." I recommend dates where you have interest... a museum, landmark,

sporting event. If it is your interest, chances are you are more astute with info. Intro this to her.

Make it interesting.....if the girl likes you, and being in your company, she really will not care

where you take her. Make a date centered around her interests....a couple dates later.

Check it out enough to have a "working knowledge" of it... ask her questions about it, what she thinks

about this or that. Her knowing you put in the effort.... that will attract her. Ask females what the biggest

turn off is in early dating, vast majority say -he doesn't put in the effort after he knows I like him-

Doc..... the more you try / look for dates, the harder it seems. Just be you.... and they will come.

Just be careful who you choose..... a hot girl, is a hot girl. But if she can't chew bubble gum and

walk at the same time..... don't expect much substance. I much prefer a cerebral 8 over a

ditzy 10.


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> Lots of updates:
> 
> 1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed
> 
> 2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


1-"Never under-estimate the power of denial" Ricky Fitts, American Beauty 1999

2-Your info upset her, angered her. She wanted to take it out on you. Because she is angry at herself for putting up with this POS. That is her problem, not yours.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> Lots of updates:
> 
> 1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. *She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed*
> 
> 2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


donesies, she has told you she was over the marriage and you for over a year. Once she was caught cheating she wanted out. Everything she has done sense the couldn’t we have talked first was to save face on her part. It wasn’t to save the marriage or relationship. 

Take a vacation and get away for a week or two. 

If you want to date someone then just go and have fun. Be yourself and don’t try and impress them.


----------



## TDSC60

Tatsuhiko said:


> I completely agree. This is a common theme in here. I've concluded that women have a really strong innate desire to make viable children. Some of them go haywire when a failure occurs. The failure can manifest as infertility, miscarriage, or the birth of a special-needs child. These seem to be catalysts for some women to start seeking a different mate that she unconsciously believes will produce the viable offspring that her husband could not. I'm not even sure she's aware that it's happening. All she knows is that she's interested in other men when she wasn't before. The rational side of her even often uses birth control while the irrational, primitive side continues with mating activity, however futile.
> 
> You look at someone like LtCdrLost over at SI. He really had no idea his wife was capable of the LTA she was involved in. And she probably wasn't capable of it for most of their marriage. But somewhere in a recent post, several days into the thread, he mentioned her miscarriages. *I think the miscarriages reprogrammed her brain.*


I agree. A miscarriage is a life altering trauma for husband and wife. Sure, it can be the basis of a change in thinking or even personality, but not an excuse for adultery.

LCL's wife lived life as the wife of her OM for 6 months while LCL (Navy) was deployed on board a ship at sea.


----------



## TDSC60

D - please stop caring so much about what other people think and quit being surprised at their actions. Come to terms with yourself. Until you are very comfortable being alone and enjoying life by yourself, quit chasing relationships. You are not ready.


----------



## ABHale

Donesies, is there a group of coworkers you can go out with?


----------



## Survivn13

That's awesome that the divorce went through so fast. And if the "low ball" settlement went through, consider that a big win in a no fault state. Congratulations!

As for trying to figure out what the ex's issues were. I'm afraid that's a lost cause. Was it the miscarriage, jealousy of your success or psychological projection? You may never find out why. She's contrived things in her mind to make herself believe you were the bad guy.

You are truly single now. Try to think of it as a new found freedom. Time to move forward. You can do this!


----------



## OnTheRocks

Tatsuhiko said:


> I completely agree. This is a common theme in here. I've concluded that women have a really strong innate desire to make viable children. Some of them go haywire when a failure occurs. The failure can manifest as infertility, miscarriage, or the birth of a special-needs child. These seem to be catalysts for some women to start seeking a different mate that she unconsciously believes will produce the viable offspring that her husband could not. I'm not even sure she's aware that it's happening. All she knows is that she's interested in other men when she wasn't before. The rational side of her even often uses birth control while the irrational, primitive side continues with mating activity, however futile.
> 
> You look at someone like LtCdrLost over at SI. He really had no idea his wife was capable of the LTA she was involved in. And she probably wasn't capable of it for most of their marriage. But somewhere in a recent post, several days into the thread, he mentioned her miscarriages. I think the miscarriages reprogrammed her brain.


This is gold right here. Very astute.


----------



## alte Dame

ABHale said:


> donesies, she has told you she was over the marriage and you for over a year. Once she was caught cheating she wanted out. Everything she has done sense the couldn’t we have talked first was to save face on her part. It wasn’t to save the marriage or relationship.
> 
> Take a vacation and get away for a week or two.
> 
> If you want to date someone then just go and have fun. Be yourself and don’t try and impress them.


In a nutshell. Great post.


----------



## bandit.45

Tatsuhiko said:


> I completely agree. This is a common theme in here. I've concluded that women have a really strong innate desire to make viable children. Some of them go haywire when a failure occurs. The failure can manifest as infertility, miscarriage, or the birth of a special-needs child. These seem to be catalysts for some women to start seeking a different mate that she unconsciously believes will produce the viable offspring that her husband could not. I'm not even sure she's aware that it's happening. All she knows is that she's interested in other men when she wasn't before. The rational side of her even often uses birth control while the irrational, primitive side continues with mating activity, however futile.


Agreed.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

bandit.45 said:


> Agreed. My ex-wife's miscarriages totally messed her up. She gave up on trying to be a decent person and just gave in to her baser desires. She is today a dark shadow of the woman she used to be.


I forgot to add abortion to my list of catalysts for women experiencing a childbearing crisis. I've seen many stories in here where a woman has an affair after her abortion. Even though the rational part of a woman's brain made a choice, I think the primitive part of her brain sees it as a failure to create viable offspring, and makes her want to try again with other mates.


----------



## badmemory

Maybe it's been mentioned, but I can't help but suspect that she intentionally left her journal out for him to find.


----------



## bandit.45

badmemory said:


> Maybe it's been mentioned, but I can't help but suspect that she intentionally left her journal out for him to find.


I think you're right. She had a plan and she played it through.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> I think you're right. She had a plan and she played it through.


I wouldn't have believed you before, but it certainly seems that way now. 

I know you guys would be disappointed, but even before the finalization, I did say I was willing to talk. She said she appreciated it, but it would never work. I nodded and signed the form.

I just wanted to be able to say that I left no stone un-turned.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I wouldn't have believed you before, but it certainly seems that way now.
> 
> I know you guys would be disappointed, but even before the finalization, I did say I was willing to talk. She said she appreciated it, but it would never work. I nodded and signed the form.
> 
> I just wanted to be able to say that I left no stone un-turned.


How nice of her to appreciate it. "But it would never work..."

Insert <<VOMIT>> here. All over her blouse.


----------



## just got it 55

donesies said:


> Lots of updates:
> 
> 1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed
> 
> 2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


Nothing looks as good in the rear view mirror as a cheating betraying spouse 

Now Done....go live your life.

55


----------



## Chuck71

donesies said:


> I wouldn't have believed you before, but it certainly seems that way now.
> 
> I know you guys would be disappointed, but even before the finalization, I did say I was willing to talk. She said she appreciated it, but it would never work. I nodded and signed the form.
> 
> I just wanted to be able to say that I left no stone un-turned.


She will be going down a road you would not want to follow her in..... Maybe you would have if 

she was faithful and asked for your hand. She didn't. Maybe it is good you will not see "this side of her."

Cherish the good memories.... but remember, there is a huge difference in "hanging on" and "letting go."

Humans hide pain in certain ways..... I had a friend from HS, we were super tight, he dated a girl... 

they were a perfect match. She lost the baby. She secluded in a shell and they broke it off.

They both lost.... but she subjected herself to a-hole guy after a-hole guy. My friend, never understood this.

He does now..... not long before she turned 40, she came back for him... a good 20something years later.

She still runs to this day..... he realized it. Both would love to go back in time, but they can't.

She and he both.... are in LTRs...... she is willing to get together on the side but he knows better.

He knows she isn't worth losing his LTR over 2018.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

I am not down on you over trying to offer a last chance. You are still in love with her. Time and distance will heal. 

Grieve. If she would have died, you would grieve for a long time. The personality that you loved did actually die. 

I don't know when or where, but you will meet the love of your life. She's out there, she is wondering when she will meet you also. She will give you the children you want, the family that you want. Have faith, and carry on.


----------



## badmemory

donesies said:


> She said she appreciated it, but it would never work.


That is one, stone cold, bee-otch.


----------



## re16

badmemory said:


> That is one, stone cold, bee-otch.


With that courthouse comment, its does seem like the entire scenario was some sort of intentional revenge on her part.


----------



## Hoosier

No shame in the last chance offer Doc. In my case I wanted to make sure I did everything I could so I would never regret, and I did. Why? because I loved her simple as that. The day it was final, ( I have a court house informant that let me know the second the Judge signed it, we never went before a Judge, she wanted rid of me so bad) I sent her flowers with a note thanking her for 30 years, 28 days. Wishing her luck in her new relationship. It would be 5 years before I even talked in her presence. 

You tried, you did all you could, its over..........time to move on.


----------



## Edmund

donesies said:


> I wouldn't have believed you before, but it certainly seems that way now.
> 
> I know you guys would be disappointed, but even before the finalization, I did say I was willing to talk. She said she appreciated it, but it would never work. I nodded and signed the form.
> 
> I just wanted to be able to say that I left no stone un-turned.


I am not disappointed. You did the decent thing.

I want to point out that, given OMW's reaction (which is to make you never mention this to her again), I am doubling down on my wild-ass theory that I detailed in post number 1248. I may be wrong in some detail, but this was clearly a strategy to get you to divorce her. If it actually was an affair that she had, it was an exit affair. In response to my theory you said "she isn't that clever." Still think that?

Anyway, except for the monetary loss, you are sitting pretty. You have a whole new life now. Explore your options and expand the boundaries of the routine you are in now. I think you will find another woman just as good or better.


----------



## donesies

To add insult to this whole situation, I recently became friends with a woman who happens to work at the "club." I didn't find this out until we had become friends. She is supposed to promote the organization and the people within it. Lately, I have been inundated with FB messages promoting OM and his company. It's really annoying. Not sure what (if anything) to do about it.


----------



## Thor

Get rid of that which does not enhance your life.


----------



## Suspicious1

Go west young man, disappear for a while with some buddies, as they say in the hood , Do you! 



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Survivn13

donesies said:


> To add insult to this whole situation, I recently became friends with a woman who happens to work at the "club." I didn't find this out until we had become friends. She is supposed to promote the organization and the people within it. Lately, I have been inundated with FB messages promoting OM and his company. It's really annoying. Not sure what (if anything) to do about it.


Unfollow or unfriend. OM is POS. I had to unfollow old friend due to constant annoying political rantings.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> To add insult to this whole situation, I recently became friends with a woman who happens to work at the "club." I didn't find this out until we had become friends. She is supposed to promote the organization and the people within it. Lately, I have been inundated with FB messages promoting OM and his company. It's really annoying. Not sure what (if anything) to do about it.


Block the messages.


----------



## jlg07

I hope you've told this friend what a cheating scumbag the OM is and how he ruined your marriage.....
If she knows him, does she also know your wife?


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> I wouldn't have believed you before, but it certainly seems that way now.
> 
> I know you guys would be disappointed, but even before the finalization, I did say I was willing to talk. She said she appreciated it, but it would never work. I nodded and signed the form.
> 
> I just wanted to be able to say that I left no stone un-turned.


Donesies why would you not have. Not disappointed with you at all. Anyone who loves someone will understand why. I think her being plain spoken with you should help you move on. 

Now, take a vacation.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> To add insult to this whole situation, I recently became friends with a woman who happens to work at the "club." I didn't find this out until we had become friends. She is supposed to promote the organization and the people within it. Lately, I have been inundated with FB messages promoting OM and his company. It's really annoying. Not sure what (if anything) to do about it.


I would out the OM. Do to the fact that OM is a cheater I wish to have these FB messages sent to me promoting his company stopped. Husbands you should look into any dealings he has with your wives, I know of one marriage ruined by him already.


----------



## bethebetterman

Reading this is like reliving my divorce two years ago. The divorce was my decision. I didn't feel I had any other choice. I still wasn't happy about it as I never wanted to be the guy that bailed on his marriage. 

I started out where OP is now. It seemed very important to me to try to figure out why she had the affair. I spent a long time wanting her to admit the affair, to take responsibility , to feel remorse. It was of course a waste of time. She is who she is and whether she learns and grows was no longer anything to do with me. Once I realised that I set about rebuilding my self esteem, my confidence and learning to laugh again. It takes time to heal and it only starts when you focus on yourself. Do the stuff you want to do. Be the person you want to be. Spend time with positive people. Cut out the negative people. When you are ready a better life than you ever dreamed of is waiting for you

I wish you luck.


----------



## TeddieG

alte Dame said:


> Your WW has damaged your self-image and ego and you are trying hard to keep those things intact. I think we all get it, but your worth isn't just the sum of what other people think of you. You need to understand your true worth yourself. This sounds cliché, I know, but there it is.
> 
> Step back and let yourself heal. The OM has something that you don't see and your WW got ensnared by it. I can tell you, I've known so many women in my life who were so attractive to men, but I just couldn't see it. It is one of the mysteries of life....
> 
> Try to focus on the other things in your life besides female companionship. If you want the sexual play, then find someone on the same page and do that. Otherwise, get off the mental merry-go-round and give yourself a real break. Just suspend your efforts in the 'love' aspect of your life. Make a deadline. Say you are on sabbatical for the next three months. And then just live.


I'm late to your thread - been gone a few days, but yes, this this this this. 

This entire process has damaged your self-image and you feel completed rejected, so you're trying in your dates to "un-do" the rejection. And who knows how much you changed, adapted, compromised (not in a bad way, but let her have her way sometimes when you wanted something else) in the years you were with her. 

Who are YOU and what do YOU want? I'm going to ask a question that I use on students who challenge me with "what can I do with this degree"? I teach and I also advise students, and I always turn the question around on them and say, well, clearly you're not going to be an architect or an engineer, but if you had to never worry about money, if you won the lottery or found that out that you are Bill Gates' long lost niece/nephew and he was sharing the wealth, how would you spend your life? What would you do, what would make you get up every day and say, Hello World, here I am, and how would this degree help?

So what do you want to do? And then you ask who you want beside you, along with you, and be picky about it.


----------



## TeddieG

bandit.45 said:


> Agreed.


My h got weird after I had a miscarriage early in our relationship. He wasn't comforting, sweet, he just got mad at God. And one of the things the nasty OW told me on the phone all the years after the loss and he had hooked up with her, when she called to try to apologize and say they didn't mean to hurt me but they couldn't help themselves (and I said sorry, not interested - her first h had cheated on her, so she knew what it felt like), she went on to tell me that my h had told her was desperate for her to get her tubes un-tied because he so badly wanted a child with her. She was almost 50 and he was almost 60. Both going on 13 at the time, but yeah, he measured his worth by the number of children he had.

It is true that people have issues like this and they are painful. But there's nothing moral or ethical about, there's no high ground in, scorching the earth of the person you experienced it with.


----------



## donesies

Hello my friends...

I've had a crappy last couple of days that I wanted to share with you.

Had a date that I was really excited about. She no-showed on me - first time that's ever happened. What gets to me is that I delayed a bunch of my obligations to go out with her. She lives a couple towns over, so it was quite a bit of time getting to the date and back. REALLY frustrating and the distance just adds insult to injury. 

On top of that, I asked out a girl that I had been out with once and got flat-out rejected. So basically, rejected by 2 girls that I was interested in on the same night. Wasn't a good night.

BTW, I did find out what happened to the girl that left the party abruptly that night....turns out that her husband (yes, you read that right) had just gotten out of jail and was picking her up from the party. Wow.

My EX is now seeing another guy (a 3rd guy) that is single but not a very impressive specimen. I can't help but compare myself to these guys and wonder why.


----------



## bandit.45

Damn. 

So the first gal was cheating on her husband with you?


----------



## Tex X

donesies said:


> My EX is now seeing another guy (a 3rd guy) that is single but not a very impressive specimen. I can't help but compare myself to these guys and wonder why.


Don't do that - there is no logic behind it anyway. When my ex and I first separated she immediately started dating a 'less than impressive specimen'. I was like WTF? Some women (and men as well in same situation) will throw themselves out there to anyone to get the validation that "they've still got it". Plus by hitting below their weight the relationship will be effortless for awhile because the 'less than impressive specimen' will be kissing their ass because they scored big time.

So it's really got nothing to do with you at all.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> Damn.
> 
> So the first gal was cheating on her husband with you?


My understanding (filtered through at least 2 people) is that she had told him it was over when he went to jail. She's actually the one who called the cops on him. While he was in jail, she was whoring it up. Once he got out, she jumped back into the relationship with him.


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> Hello my friends...
> 
> I've had a crappy last couple of days that I wanted to share with you.
> 
> Had a date that I was really excited about. She no-showed on me - first time that's ever happened. What gets to me is that I delayed a bunch of my obligations to go out with her. She lives a couple towns over, so it was quite a bit of time getting to the date and back. REALLY frustrating and the distance just adds insult to injury.
> 
> On top of that, I asked out a girl that I had been out with once and got flat-out rejected. So basically, rejected by 2 girls that I was interested in on the same night. Wasn't a good night.
> 
> BTW, I did find out what happened to the girl that left the party abruptly that night....turns out that her husband (yes, you read that right) had just gotten out of jail and was picking her up from the party. Wow.
> 
> My EX is now seeing another guy (a 3rd guy) that is single but not a very impressive specimen. I can't help but compare myself to these guys and wonder why.


Wow... you got every modern dating lesson wrapped up in one day!

1. Don't sacrifice so much time, energy and resources for a first date. Women are flaky. Dude #24 texted her that morning and asked her out. She forgot about you. That's probably seriously what happened. She'll text you in a few weeks or months.

2. Rejection sucks. Gotta learn to deal with it. It will happen many more times. If it doesn't, you're not doing the dating thing right.

3. Of course she was married. Of course he just got out of jail.

4. Stop following what your ex is doing. There will be MANY MANY men in her life from now on. You need to get to a point of indifference. You're not anywhere near that yet, which means you aren't anywhere near ready to date women. It's not fair to you or these women. The inevitable long list of psychos you encounter will just further depress you.


----------



## donesies

dadstartingover said:


> Wow... you got every modern dating lesson wrapped up in one day!
> 
> 1. Don't sacrifice so much time, energy and resources for a first date. Women are flaky. Dude #24 texted her that morning and asked her out. She forgot about you. That's probably seriously what happened. She'll text you in a few weeks or months.
> 
> 2. Rejection sucks. Gotta learn to deal with it. It will happen many more times. If it doesn't, you're not doing the dating thing right.
> 
> 3. Of course she was married. Of course he just got out of jail.
> 
> 4. Stop following what your ex is doing. There will be MANY MANY men in her life from now on. You need to get to a point of indifference. You're not anywhere near that yet, which means you aren't anywhere near ready to date women. It's not fair to you or these women. The inevitable long list of psychos you encounter will just further depress you.


All excellent points, DSO. All undeniable truths - I just wish this dating thing were easier, LOL


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> Hello my friends...
> 
> I've had a crappy last couple of days that I wanted to share with you.
> 
> Had a date that I was really excited about. She no-showed on me - first time that's ever happened. What gets to me is that I delayed a bunch of my obligations to go out with her. She lives a couple towns over, so it was quite a bit of time getting to the date and back. REALLY frustrating and the distance just adds insult to injury.
> 
> On top of that, I asked out a girl that I had been out with once and got flat-out rejected. So basically, rejected by 2 girls that I was interested in on the same night. Wasn't a good night.
> 
> BTW, I did find out what happened to the girl that left the party abruptly that night....turns out that her husband (yes, you read that right) had just gotten out of jail and was picking her up from the party. Wow.
> 
> My EX is now seeing another guy (a 3rd guy) that is single but not a very impressive specimen. I can't help but compare myself to these guys and wonder why.


Listen, you cannot do this... Let me explain why: You can't fix crazy. If you try, you will go crazy. 

Just be glad that you got out when you did. I know that sounds cliché, but trust me, in a few months you will be like, wow I can't believe that I got out of that. How lucky can I be. 

Also, you will get your grove back so don't let any of that bother you. It is what it is...


----------



## Lostinthought61

donesies said:


> My understanding (filtered through at least 2 people) is that she had told him it was over when he went to jail. She's actually the one who called the cops on him. While he was in jail, she was whoring it up. Once he got out, she jumped back into the relationship with him.



wow...i smell lifetime movie 

I always say sometimes the universe speak, we just don't listen....be glad you never got caught up with that. 
i think it would help you a great deal to learn mindfulness, to learn to be at peace. 
Stop being Sisyphus and rolling that stone up hill....leave the stone where it is and appreciate for what it is...i think you will find that the greater the peace you discover in yourself the better the flow of positiveness will come to you...stop searching for someone, if you do what i have told you they will find you. Prove me wrong.


----------



## Bananapeel

@donesies, the secret to not getting stood up or rejected is to learn to recognize the women that are chasing after you and only date those ones. You do that by having a care free attitude and giving women the space to pursue you rather than you pursuing them. Then all you have to do is schedule dates and enjoy their company.


----------



## badmemory

donesies said:


> All excellent points, DSO. All undeniable truths - I just wish this dating thing were easier, LOL


You know donesies; It seems that the best way to find the right woman may be to stop looking for her. Let her find you. Don't be so impatient. Stop trying so hard. Hang out with friends. Do something you've always wanted to do. Buy something you've always wanted. Enjoy being a single doctor. They're a lot of men who would envy your current situation.


----------



## just got it 55

badmemory said:


> you know donesies; it seems that the best way to find the right woman may be to stop looking for her. Let her find you. Don't be so impatient. *stop trying so hard*. Hang out with friends. Do something you've always wanted to do. Buy something you've always wanted. Enjoy being a single doctor. They're a lot of men who would envy your current situation.


qft

55


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

donesies said:


> All excellent points, DSO. All undeniable truths - I just wish this dating thing were easier, LOL


Women are not like cars, or a refrigerator. You do not need to replace them immediately when the previous one breaks down. Spend some time learning who you are as a solo entity. Once you are comfortable single, dating will be much easier because you won't be giving off a needy vibe.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. Sounds like your picker is in need of recalibration.

2. The local yokels aren't in you class. Your ex is a good example of that. Oops, cheap shot. Sorry. >

3. As far as the ex goes, you really, Really, REALLY, *REALLY* need to stop finding out about her. Pick at scabs much? Its called "Pain Shopping".

4. I googled *Dating sites for professionals* and it gave quite a list. You might look at some of those. 

5. Also google *The Tao of Dating For Men by Dr. Ali Binazir.* couldn't hurt.


----------



## ABHale

donesies said:


> All excellent points, DSO. All undeniable truths - I just wish this dating thing were easier, LOL


Don’t have a clue where you live donesies but I believe I would find somewhere else to live. 

The women around you are just bat**** crazy.


----------



## dadstartingover

ABHale said:


> Don’t have a clue where you live donesies but I believe I would find somewhere else to live.
> 
> The women around you are just bat**** crazy.


He could throw a dart at a map and have the same experience.


----------



## Cromer

dadstartingover said:


> He could throw a dart at a map and have the same experience.


FACTS. :surprise:


----------



## BigDigg

Honestly donesies - why the rush to dive back into the dating pool? You just went through something highly traumatic. Your decisiveness, speed and strength are commendable (legendary even?), however I've never seen or heard anyone with a similar tale where they've gone from happily married to finished paperwork and dating faster than you. You can try to skip past all the stages of grief but rest assured there are feelings and emotions still hidden that will need to be discovered and dealt with. You can sweep them away now but they're there.

Right now I'm guessing you're focused on dating to rebuild your confidence (understandably deflated a bit given your experience) and maybe explore the silver lining side here (fresh start, new women, etc.). You might also be doing this to prove something to your EX (understandable too). What you probably can't see is that you're not going to be the best version of yourself in this state. The new women can probably pick up on this too. Striking out, bad dates, no shows etc. are a confidence killer. Confidence is key and when you aren't feeling it naturally there's a tendency to come off as either desperate or overcompensating. Even if you do find someone you like you'll eventually have to explain to them that you were happily married literally 2 months ago. That would be a pretty big red flag potentially for the average girl.

Do yourself a favor - take some time to reset and re-calibrate. Really do some self-reflection. Figure out your improvement plan (we all can improve somewhere). When you come out on the other side emotionally, physically and spiritually ready you'll kick some *** out there on the dating scene.


----------



## ButtPunch

BigDigg said:


> Honestly donesies - why the rush to dive back into the dating pool? You just went through something highly traumatic. Your decisiveness, speed and strength are commendable (legendary even?), however I've never seen or heard anyone with a similar tale where they've gone from happily married to finished paperwork and dating faster than you. You can try to skip past all the stages of grief but rest assured there are feelings and emotions still hidden that will need to be discovered and dealt with. You can sweep them away now but they're there.
> 
> Right now I'm guessing you're focused on dating to rebuild your confidence (understandably deflated a bit given your experience) and maybe explore the silver lining side here (fresh start, new women, etc.). You might also be doing this to prove something to your EX (understandable too). What you probably can't see is that you're not going to be the best version of yourself in this state. The new women can probably pick up on this too. Striking out, bad dates, no shows etc. are a confidence killer. Confidence is key and when you aren't feeling it naturally there's a tendency to come off as either desperate or overcompensating. Even if you do find someone you like you'll eventually have to explain to them that you were happily married literally 2 months ago. That would be a pretty big red flag potentially for the average girl.
> 
> Do yourself a favor - take some time to reset and re-calibrate. Really do some self-reflection. Figure out your improvement plan (we all can improve somewhere). When you come out on the other side emotionally, physically and spiritually ready you'll kick some *** out there on the dating scene.


I agree.

It would be different if Donesies was just out having a good time.

Sowing a few I'm newly single oats.

I just don't get that vibe from him.

I get the feeling he's already relationship shopping.

It's too soon OP. So what if your ex is dating a bunch. She has already proven that she has emotionally detached from you many moons ago.
Your exwife clearly has issues anyway and right now someone like her is what you are going to attract.


----------



## donesies

I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


----------



## lucy999

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


Oh HONEY. You are in your prime. Be patient. And, you have blown apart my theory that in order to get over, you got to get under. Just because it worked for me doesn't mean that it would work for you or for anybody else, for that matter. I was a big proponent of you dating and sexing it up. I will gladly declare that I was waaay off base.

Now I am with the masses that tell you to wait.


----------



## jlg07

donesies said:


> My understanding (filtered through at least 2 people) is that she had told him it was over when he went to jail. She's actually the one who called the cops on him. While he was in jail, she was whoring it up. Once he got out, she jumped back into the relationship with him.


WOW -- you REALLY dodged a bullet on that one. What a POS she is.


----------



## badmemory

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. *Now in my mid-30s* looking for a new wife and new life.


Yeah, before you know it, in 30 years you'll be drawing Social Security. C'mon man.


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


You're conditioned to believe that a long-term monogamous relationship is the ultimate end game. Ideally, you want to have to be REALLY convinced to drop your awesome single life to enter into another relationship. Right now you're just jumping head first into whatever falls into you lap. That's just BEGGING for failure and horrible experiences.

You're a man in your mid-30's and you're WORRIED?!? DUDE.... you are quite literally in the PRIME of you life. There is no biological clock ticking. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.


----------



## TeddieG

Tex X said:


> Don't do that - there is no logic behind it anyway. When my ex and I first separated she immediately started dating a 'less than impressive specimen'. I was like WTF? Some women (and men as well in same situation) will throw themselves out there to anyone to get the validation that "they've still got it". Plus by hitting below their weight the relationship will be effortless for awhile because the 'less than impressive specimen' will be kissing their ass because they scored big time.
> 
> So it's really got nothing to do with you at all.


So true, donesies. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with you at all.


----------



## Andy1001

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


Buddy just chill ok. Take some time out and forget about relationships,just have some fun. There are millions of women on the planet who would love to be dating the handsome young doctor who showed that he has strength of character as well as brains. 
Did your old friend move to your town yet?


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. *Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. * Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


Who says that you HAVE to be married?

Who says that you NEED a wife?

Most people with successful marriages that I know, were not looking to find a mate when they met their spouse.

I just do not understand that statement.


----------



## OnTheRocks

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


Why are you looking for a new wife? Personally, I have an ex and a child support payment, and have no interest in acquiring any more of those ever again. I've been dating the same girl since my divorce 6 years ago. Neither of us want to get married, have kids, or even cohabitate. It's awesome. Relationships don't need to lead to marriage.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Donsies, when you reach age 50, you'll still be able to find 30-year-old women who are interested in marrying you. No need to hurry.


----------



## donesies

TDSC60 said:


> Who says that you HAVE to be married?
> 
> Who says that you NEED a wife?
> 
> Most people with successful marriages that I know, were not looking to find a mate when they met their spouse.
> 
> I just do not understand that statement.


I would like to find someone and have a family. I've always wanted kids.


----------



## kekkek

Tatsuhiko said:


> Donsies, when you reach age 50, you'll still be able to find 30-year-old women who are interested in marrying you. No need to hurry.


Donsies has a long time, it's true. But he doesn't need to wait until 50. A six month break would probably be enough to reset his mindset.


----------



## Taxman

donesies said:


> I'll agree that I'm probably taking this process a bit too seriously. It's probably because I feel like I'm behind the 8-ball. Now in my mid-30s looking for a new wife and new life. Something I hadn't even remotely considered at the beginning of the year.


How many people get a "do-over"? Not many. This is how I would look at your situation. You chose wrong on the first try. Now you have opportunity to seek a better woman, then, marry and have a family. First sir, you are a physician in his 30's.My daughter is a physician in her 30's. Medical training consumes a ton of time. I have suggested that med students NOT MARRY during their training. You are working so damn hard, and decisions are scrutinized on a minute by minute basis. Is it any wonder that personal decisions tend to be questionable. That and almost every marriage during med school, seems to end within ten years of graduation. My niece's husband, a surgeon, left her fro a scrub nurse after five years and two kids. Same with my daughter's 3 friends.

So, here is what you do, forget that your ex even draws breath on this planet. You work on you (sounds as if you have been doing so for years). You find the girl. You make a life. Soon your ex will be something that pops into your mind while you are moving your bowels. Smelly and a relief to push out. Go have children. And one only hopes that your ex sees you with a pretty new wife, and children, and she realizes what she fu cked up forever.

Oh, and PS bud, I know people in their 40's, 50's and 60's that have married in those ages. It aint over til its over. Do not set imaginary timelines for things that you feel you should do. Look at guys who had to divorce in their 50's 60's and in one case 70's. I have a lovely late 60's psychoanalyst. After years of being alone, she took my advice, and went on a dating site for seasoned and mature individuals (over 50's). She met a very nice gentleman, a widowed retired finance guy of a similar age. They moved in together several months back. She is slowly closing her practice, not accepting any new patients, and they are going to travel the world. I suggested taking an apartment for a few weeks in Paris-Montmartre section. (Drawback-the walls are thin in europe, and my wife and I could be heard)


----------



## dadstartingover

Taxman said:


> How many people get a "do-over"? Not many. This is how I would look at your situation.


Bingo.

Big picture: The universe just handed you a pretty sweet deal. You're a free, healthy, wealthy, mid-30's dude. Jesus Christ... the only way it would get better is if you were sh*tting out gold bricks.

You get to be ANYTHING and ANYONE you want to be. Seriously. Don't pick "Welp, I guess I'll go with what I've always done."


----------



## Rubix Cubed

dadstartingover said:


> Bingo.
> 
> Big picture: The universe just handed you a pretty sweet deal. You're a free, healthy, wealthy, mid-30's dude. Jesus Christ... the only way it would get better is if you were sh*tting out gold bricks.
> 
> You get to be ANYTHING and ANYONE you want to be. Seriously. Don't pick "Welp, I guess I'll go with what I've always done."


 And see a counselor or someone who can help you with your broken picker. It needs some serious fixing.


----------



## donesies

You guys will be happy to know that I'm about to board a flight for a vacation. I'm meeting my best friend for a 10-day trip of shenanigans.

Hopefully this trip will help. This last couple weeks have felt like a serious set-back. Honestly, it's probably because of the finalization of the divorce. It's all so real now...


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Good for you. I'm glad to hear your pal got through to you. Have a blast.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Best news I’ve heard from you in a while.

Atta boy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45

Where are you guys going?


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> Where are you guys going?


Atlantic City to start. Also New York and some other places.


----------



## donesies

Rubix Cubed said:


> dadstartingover said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo.
> 
> Big picture: The universe just handed you a pretty sweet deal. You're a free, healthy, wealthy, mid-30's dude. Jesus Christ... the only way it would get better is if you were sh*tting out gold bricks.
> 
> You get to be ANYTHING and ANYONE you want to be. Seriously. Don't pick "Welp, I guess I'll go with what I've always done."
> 
> 
> 
> And see a counselor or someone who can help you with your broken picker. It needs some serious fixing.
Click to expand...

Can a counselor really fix that?? Would love to know your thoughts...how should I pick girls?


----------



## lucy999

Good for you. Safe travels and have a great time.


----------



## dadstartingover

donesies said:


> Can a counselor really fix that?? Would love to know your thoughts...how should I pick girls?


I think it's not so much a "picker" as it is a "red flag detector" or "learn how to remove rose-colored glasses and be more pragmatic when it comes to women". 

A lot of "nice guys" just brush aside red flags like they are nothing and try their damndest to see the good in women they meet. They feel this gives them an edge of intellectual or emotional superiority. They actually see it as a plus when it is, in fact, a HUGE MINUS in the mating game.

Example:

You're at a bar and you meet a beautiful woman who really seems to be nice and she obviously likes you a lot. She gets a few drinks in her and starts opening up. "So... my husband went to prison for a bunch of stuff I won't go into and now I have three kids at home. It sucks. I got laid off last month, but I'm interviewing at several places. One says they have a spot for me. I'm glad because I need the insurance. My daughter has been in and out of the hospital with depression stuff and my boy wants to move out soon... but he's only 17."

Nice guy: "This poor woman. Man... some people have it rough. That's a shame. Why does this stuff always seem to happen to good people? I'll give her my number and we can chat. I like her. Her being beautiful and giving me attention doesn't hurt."

Mentally healthy, ready to date guy: "Alright, Sally. It was very nice meeting you. Have a great night!"

Healthy guy recognizes that there are hundreds of thousands of women out there he could spend time with, and it will take a very awesome woman to get him to agree to a date. Life is too short to try and "save" all of the world's sad cases.

The guy who has been around the block more than a few times not only sees this woman as "non-datable" but also as a very real problem that could be dangerous and put all he has worked for at risk. He RUNS from women like this. 

To super simplify. You gotta take a page out of the woman's handbook. They can size up a man in about two seconds. Women are not afraid to give men the cold shoulder. She's been called a stuck-up b*tch more than she can remember, but she doesn't care. Life is too short to waste on pitiful guys.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> Can a counselor really fix that?? Would love to know your thoughts...how should I pick girls?


 Somebody needs to help you with it, but without knowing A LOT more about your preferences and how you go about acting on them, we/I would just be swinging in the dark trying to help you, but I'll take a swing anyway.

Like DSO said you need to spot the red flags and act on them instead of ignoring them. Recognize those red flags for what they are not what YOU want them to be. A.k.a Maybe you're trying too hard and lowering your bar in the process.


----------



## dadstartingover

dadstartingover said:


> I think it's not so much a "picker" as it is a "red flag detector" or "learn how to remove rose-colored glasses and be more pragmatic when it comes to women".
> 
> A lot of "nice guys" just brush aside red flags like they are nothing and try their damndest to see the good in women they meet. They feel this gives them an edge of intellectual or emotional superiority. They actually see it as a plus when it is, in fact, a HUGE MINUS in the mating game.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You're at a bar and you meet a beautiful woman who really seems to be nice and she obviously likes you a lot. She gets a few drinks in her and starts opening up. "So... my husband went to prison for a bunch of stuff I won't go into and now I have three kids at home. It sucks. I got laid off last month, but I'm interviewing at several places. One says they have a spot for me. I'm glad because I need the insurance. My daughter has been in and out of the hospital with depression stuff and my boy wants to move out soon... but he's only 17."
> 
> Nice guy: "This poor woman. Man... some people have it rough. That's a shame. Why does this stuff always seem to happen to good people? I'll give her my number and we can chat. I like her. Her being beautiful and giving me attention doesn't hurt."
> 
> Mentally healthy, ready to date guy: "Alright, Sally. It was very nice meeting you. Have a great night!"
> 
> Healthy guy recognizes that there are hundreds of thousands of women out there he could spend time with, and it will take a very awesome woman to get him to agree to a date. Life is too short to try and "save" all of the world's sad cases.
> 
> The guy who has been around the block more than a few times not only sees this woman as "non-datable" but also as a very real problem that could be dangerous and put all he has worked for at risk. He RUNS from women like this.
> 
> To super simplify. You gotta take a page out of the woman's handbook. They can size up a man in about two seconds. Women are not afraid to give men the cold shoulder. She's been called a stuck-up b*tch more than she can remember, but she doesn't care. Life is too short to waste on pitiful guys.


As a very important follow-up to this... Women like the one in my above scenario WILL be attracted to you. That "attraction", though, won't be the kind you're going after. These women will pick up on your niceness and have you pegged as the next daddy/provider. You don't want to be the guy who is left holding the mortgage while she runs off and has fun with ex-cons.


----------



## Yeswecan

Taxman said:


> Soon your ex will be something that pops into your mind while you are moving your bowels.


Hahaha! How true!


----------



## donesies

dadstartingover said:


> dadstartingover said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's not so much a "picker" as it is a "red flag detector" or "learn how to remove rose-colored glasses and be more pragmatic when it comes to women".
> 
> A lot of "nice guys" just brush aside red flags like they are nothing and try their damndest to see the good in women they meet. They feel this gives them an edge of intellectual or emotional superiority. They actually see it as a plus when it is, in fact, a HUGE MINUS in the mating game.
> 
> Example:
> 
> You're at a bar and you meet a beautiful woman who really seems to be nice and she obviously likes you a lot. She gets a few drinks in her and starts opening up. "So... my husband went to prison for a bunch of stuff I won't go into and now I have three kids at home. It sucks. I got laid off last month, but I'm interviewing at several places. One says they have a spot for me. I'm glad because I need the insurance. My daughter has been in and out of the hospital with depression stuff and my boy wants to move out soon... but he's only 17."
> 
> Nice guy: "This poor woman. Man... some people have it rough. That's a shame. Why does this stuff always seem to happen to good people? I'll give her my number and we can chat. I like her. Her being beautiful and giving me attention doesn't hurt."
> 
> Mentally healthy, ready to date guy: "Alright, Sally. It was very nice meeting you. Have a great night!"
> 
> Healthy guy recognizes that there are hundreds of thousands of women out there he could spend time with, and it will take a very awesome woman to get him to agree to a date. Life is too short to try and "save" all of the world's sad cases.
> 
> The guy who has been around the block more than a few times not only sees this woman as "non-datable" but also as a very real problem that could be dangerous and put all he has worked for at risk. He RUNS from women like this.
> 
> To super simplify. You gotta take a page out of the woman's handbook. They can size up a man in about two seconds. Women are not afraid to give men the cold shoulder. She's been called a stuck-up b*tch more than she can remember, but she doesn't care. Life is too short to waste on pitiful guys.
> 
> 
> 
> As a very important follow-up to this... Women like the one in my above scenario WILL be attracted to you. That "attraction", though, won't be the kind you're going after. These women will pick up on your niceness and have you pegged as the next daddy/provider. You don't want to be the guy who is left holding the mortgage while she runs off and has fun with ex-cons.
Click to expand...

Honestly guys - I’m not going to marry a girl like this. Would I be open to a little fun-time? Eh maybe.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Honestly guys - I’m not going to marry a girl like this. Would I be open to a little fun-time? Eh maybe.


Have fun on your trip.

You need get-away-time.

Meet some people.

Maybe have some horizontal recreation.

Doc, the woman you will meet that will be your next real relationship will be someone who has chosen you. Men often believe that they do the choosing. Not so much. She will choose you and do the things to reel you in. You will feel the bond quickly. Women are geniuses at relationships. She will be the one. You seem to think that you are going to sweep women off their feet. There is no telling what a woman is going to find attractive. See my video below. Just meet people, have fun, and let nature take its course. Been happening for a million years.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly guys - I’m not going to marry a girl like this. Would I be open to a little fun-time? Eh maybe.
> 
> 
> 
> Have fun on your trip.
> 
> You need get-away-time.
> 
> Meet some people.
> 
> Maybe have some horizontal recreation.
> 
> Doc, the woman you will meet that will be your next real relationship will be someone who has chosen you. Men often believe that they do the choosing. Not so much. She will choose you and do the things to reel you in. You will feel the bond quickly. Women are geniuses at relationships. She will be the one. You seem to think that you are going to sweep women off their feet. There is no telling what a woman is going to find attractive. See my video below. Just meet people, have fun, and let nature take its course. Been happening for a million years.
Click to expand...

Do others feel this way? Do you think I need to be more proactive or just sit back and see what happens?


----------



## kekkek

donesies said:


> Do others feel this way? Do you think I need to be more proactive or just sit back and see what happens?


Why not be proactive about NOT dating anyone for a while.


----------



## donesies

kekkek said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do others feel this way? Do you think I need to be more proactive or just sit back and see what happens?
> 
> 
> 
> Why not be proactive about NOT dating anyone for a while.
Click to expand...

Again, I want a family. But in the long-run, perhaps you are all right that it’s better to step back and take my time.

I’ve been thinking a lot about my ex. The guy that I met up with didn’t know the story so I told him and the memories have come flooding back.


----------



## ABHale

Just a thought with what you have said and the reaction you have been getting for the girls you are trying to see. 

You might be coming across as a little desperate. The want of a family coming through some how. I believe you realizing this will change how you come across with girls. 

Just realize you can not rush into or make things happen. Relax and be yourself and as they say let things unfold. Really think about what you want in a life partner. Then look for that type of person and be patient with the search.


----------



## donesies

ABHale said:


> Just a thought with what you have said and the reaction you have been getting for the girls you are trying to see.
> 
> You might be coming across as a little desperate. The want of a family coming through some how. I believe you realizing this will change how you come across with girls.
> 
> Just realize you can not rush into or make things happen. Relax and be yourself and as they say let things unfold. Really think about what you want in a life partner. Then look for that type of person and be patient with the search.


Yeah I wonder the same thing. Although I attract a lot of interest at first, I do think I've been trying to too hard. Honestly, a lot of this is sorting itself out because the less success I have, the less I care about the game.


----------



## 3putt

donesies said:


> Yeah I wonder the same thing. Although I attract a lot of interest at first, I do think I've been trying to too hard. Honestly, a lot of this is sorting itself out because the less success I have, the less I care about the game.


I would highly recommend you get and read this book. I think you'll find it most helpful.

https://www.amazon.com/The-Married-Life-Primer-2011/dp/1460981731


----------



## Townes

I think I can relate to how you're feeling. When I got divorced I had this frantic energy to date someone else right away. I see now that I was trying to outrun the pain and not really face it. It caught up with me in some really destructive ways though.

I wish I would've done what others are advising. It would've been much better to stop running, be alone for a while, and really deal with it. I would've approached dating from a much less frantic, desperate place and saved myself a lot of trouble. It's a whole lot easier to give advice than take it though. I feel for you OP.


----------



## donesies

Well it's been a few days. I guess I'm still on the emotional roller-coaster. I'm doing well overall, but certain things set me off. I'm caring less and less about my EX's comings and goings, which is good I think.

I am also surprised that I've seen a couple pictures of her online and I don't think she's the knockout supermodel that I did when we were going through this. Not sure if that's because she let herself go, or I've changed, or both. It's sort of interesting.

I'm still not feeling "grounded," but I'm getting there.


----------



## bandit.45

Why is she coming and going? I thought she was gone gone.


----------



## 3putt

bandit.45 said:


> Why is she coming and going? I thought she was gone gone.


I don't think that's what he meant. I think he meant as time passes he cares less and less about what she's up to.


----------



## Taxman

Believe me when I say that you are no longer looking at her through the goggles of "love". A female client once stated that the day she found out her husband had cheated, he went from a handsome guy to actually very ugly in her eyes. Another said that his wife went from the sweet girl he married to a haggard bi+ch, and no longer his wife. That cut her to her core. She was always hung up on her looks and when he told her she looked haggard, she had a meltdown, and screw everyone around her, she was going for the face lift. She attempted to draw on communal funds, but he cut her off. He saw to it that she never again had enough funds for cosmetic surgery. When she is finished with covering all of the debts she accrued during the marriage, she can begin to pay off her back child support. She'll probably be in funds around her 70th birthday.


----------



## alte Dame

(I think in my next life I want to be an accountant. I'd be relentlessly popping the popcorn.)


----------



## donesies

One other thing that I've experienced is that I have met a handful of women that I can honestly say would likely make much better girlfriends/wives than my EX ever did. I haven't had much luck with them thus far, but there is potential there and it is just a matter of time until I find one with a mutual attraction


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> One other thing that I've experienced is that I have met a handful of women that I can honestly say would likely make much better girlfriends/wives than my EX ever did. I haven't had much luck with them thus far, but there is potential there and it is just a matter of time until I find one with a mutual attraction


You know, you have talked quite a bit about your, apparent issues with dating. Unless you are horrible disfigured, or a complete dork, you need to just relax and not try to prove anything to anyone. 

Just relax, be yourself, and it will happen when it happens. When it does, take your time, don't get too serious, see how it develops, don't be in a hurry. 

In general, chill out. There are 3 1/2 billion women in the world. It is not going to be hard for you to find a better one...


----------



## Diana7

donesies said:


> One other thing that I've experienced is that I have met a handful of women that I can honestly say would likely make much better girlfriends/wives than my EX ever did. I haven't had much luck with them thus far, but there is potential there and it is just a matter of time until I find one with a mutual attraction


I honestly think that you have rushed far too soon into persuing another relationship. At least wait till you are not longer married. Give yourself time to heal and get emotionally right again.


----------



## just got it 55

Diana7 said:


> I honestly think that you have rushed far too soon into persuing another relationship. At least wait till you are not longer married. Give yourself time to heal and get emotionally right again.


QFT

also see BluesPowers post

55


----------



## ABHale

Diana7 said:


> I honestly think that you have rushed far too soon into persuing another relationship. At least wait till you are not longer married. Give yourself time to heal and get emotionally right again.


I think the divorce is finalized. It was before he took his vacation.


----------



## ABHale

Diana7 said:


> I honestly think that you have rushed far too soon into persuing another relationship. At least wait till you are not longer married. Give yourself time to heal and get emotionally right again.


Lots of updates:

1. As of yesterday, I am officially divorced. She was completely stoic at the courthouse. She wanted this over with - I'm frankly amazed

2. Yes, I met up with OMW and told her everything. She already knew most of it. She was actually somewhat nasty and aggressive with me and didn't take well to me showing the journal pictures. It was not the encounter that I expected.


----------



## donesies

ABHale said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly think that you have rushed far too soon into persuing another relationship. At least wait till you are not longer married. Give yourself time to heal and get emotionally right again.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the divorce is finalized. It was before he took his vacation.
Click to expand...

 Correct. I am divorced


----------



## donesies

Hi friends. Having one of those crappy days now. My ex is dating a new guy and this one is out in the open. This is how a lot of my friends are finding out about the divorce. Everyone knows about it and is asking me. This is not the most attractive guy, but they do have a lot in common and he is single at least. It's effecting me more than I would have expected...


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> Hi friends. Having one of those crappy days now. My ex is dating a new guy and this one is out in the open. This is how a lot of my friends are finding out about the divorce. Everyone knows about it and is asking me. This is not the most attractive guy, but they do have a lot in common and he is single at least. It's effecting me more than I would have expected...


Man, I hope you get to a better place. Of course we all feel for you, but we are still trying to hit you in the head with a 2x4 as well. 

Brother, whatever you have to do, you have got to move on. She does not love you, she may never have loved you, and she is not worth one single thought rattling around your head. 

MOVE ON...


----------



## TDSC60

I know it is hard to truly let go - but you have to realize she is your XW for a reason. If friends inquire, just say "She cheated on me and I divorced her sorry ass! She is not my problem now."


----------



## donesies

BluesPower said:


> Man, I hope you get to a better place. Of course we all feel for you, but we are still trying to hit you in the head with a 2x4 as well.
> 
> Brother, whatever you have to do, you have got to move on. She does not love you, she may never have loved you, and she is not worth one single thought rattling around your head.
> 
> MOVE ON...


I know. Not trying to sound like a whiny b***. I am honestly trying to forget that she draws breath on this planet

Easier said than done. She was a staple of my life for 13 years.


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> I know. Not trying to sound like a whiny b***. I am honestly trying to forget that she draws breath on this planet
> 
> Easier said than done. She was a staple of my life for 13 years.


Dude, I was married for 26 freaking years... I got over it. YOU NEED TO STOP MAKING EXCUSES. 

Just be glad that you got out when you did, and that is what you should be focusing on. The fact that you got out. 

I want you to think about 26 years, half your life, wasted on a woman the DOES NOT LOVE YOU... 

Maybe that will make you feel better.

Me, I don't even think about her, except sometimes when I take a dump...


----------



## stro

Your D-Day was only 3 months ago. This has probably been a whirlwind for you. I’m guessing you will still have a lot more ups and downs on the rollercoaster. It WILL get easier but don’t be shocked when stuff like this knocks you on your ass. Just make sure you have some god friends to lean on when it does. You will be better off on the other side of all this.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

1. Still pain shopping.

2. You need to get over the idea of her boyfriends not being as a attractive as you. She is attracted to guys beneath her. If she wanted physically attractive, she would still be with you. She needs to feel superior to somebody.

3. Find any right brain women yet?

4. How did your trip go?


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Donesies:
> 
> 1. Still pain shopping.
> 
> 2. You need to get over the idea of her boyfriends not being as a attractive as you. She is attracted to guys beneath her. If she wanted physically attractive, she would still be with you. She needs to feel superior to somebody.
> 
> 3. Find any right brain women yet?
> 
> 4. How did your trip go?


1. I am - and I do need to stop making excuses

2. It actually makes sense in a way

3. I have been looking. Not yet. I guess I don't totally understand why I would want that. I had that before and it got me into this mess

4. It was really quite perfect. I had such an amazing time


----------



## donesies

BluesPower said:


> Dude, I was married for 26 freaking years... I got over it. YOU NEED TO STOP MAKING EXCUSES.
> 
> Just be glad that you got out when you did, and that is what you should be focusing on. The fact that you got out.
> 
> I want you to think about 26 years, half your life, wasted on a woman the DOES NOT LOVE YOU...
> 
> Maybe that will make you feel better.
> 
> Me, I don't even think about her, except sometimes when I take a dump...


That does put things in perspective. How long has it been now?


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> That does put things in perspective. How long has it been now?


Technically, last year, but it was over for a while, she was just to wasted to talk to, or take care of herself. 

I have be better for a long time, had a ton of fun and still am. I actually, am doing better than I have ever I think. 

I have the most wonderful GF, beautiful, sexy, totally loving in every way. She is actually the finest woman that I have ever know, and buddy I have known a lot of women. 

What I am trying to say is, let it go. Play the field, have fun, and when you least expect it and are not even looking for it, love will bite you on the butt. 

Happened to me, it can happen to you. Even if it does not, sleeping around a little does not hurt your feeling either...


----------



## donesies

BluesPower said:


> Technically, last year, but it was over for a while, she was just to wasted to talk to, or take care of herself.
> 
> I have be better for a long time, had a ton of fun and still am. I actually, am doing better than I have ever I think.
> 
> I have the most wonderful GF, beautiful, sexy, totally loving in every way. She is actually the finest woman that I have ever know, and buddy I have known a lot of women.
> 
> What I am trying to say is, let it go. Play the field, have fun, and when you least expect it and are not even looking for it, love will bite you on the butt.
> 
> Happened to me, it can happen to you. Even if it does not, sleeping around a little does not hurt your feeling either...


I will do my very, very best friend. I honestly don't have the time to sit around thinking about her anyway. Makes this that much worse.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

Great about the trip.

The reason I mentioned the right brain thing is that you are naturally attracted to creative, spontaneous, and humorous people. Opposites attract.

I still believe that your ex was damaged by her inability to bear children. It was the relationship killer. She failed you and couldn't face it. Hence her need to be with men that she is superior to and doesn't need to do anything but grace them with her excellent presence. She will always feel a failure when with you. 

That being said, find that person that has some of those same qualities, someone who will give you the things you deserve in life, minus the princess complex, marry her, build a family, and move on together.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Yeah I wonder the same thing. Although I attract a lot of interest at first, *I do think I've been trying to too hard....*.


And to women this translates to neediness... the ultimate romance killer. This is why you need to forgo dating until you are well over your xWW.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Hi friends. Having one of those crappy days now. My ex is dating a new guy and this one is out in the open. This is how a lot of my friends are finding out about the divorce. Everyone knows about it and is asking me. *This is not the most attractive guy, but they do have a lot in common and he is single at least*. It's effecting me more than I would have expected...


Yeah the one thing that they have in common is that they are both unremarkable. She had to look down to find a guy on her level. 

You are remarkable. You're an eagle. Stay soaring at 30,000 feet. Ignore her.


----------



## colingrant

If you can grow comfortable without a significant other, then someone will fall into your lap in time. Just live and create some happy moments for yourself. It's okay to be by one's self. In time, someone will emerge. It seems to happen most when you're not looking for it to happen. Before I got married, I dated damn near as a profession. I lived in the middle of a major city and lived my single life as though the city was my playground. 

In my mind I had decided the number one quality I expected to see in a long-term relationship candidate was their ability to independently create happiness for themselves and was generally upbeat with a solid sense of humor. Of course, physical attraction was up there. I was able to identify pretty early on that a woman who required validation from me or others would be flawed and were not suitable, regardless how pretty, sexy or smart. I NEVER confused them for real future partners. I dated them for fun and that's all. 

In my experience, many men see it the opposite. Perhaps it's ego, I don't know. But many are impressed that they're presence is heavily relied upon for their wife's happiness. For me, it's always been a red flag, as I know this cannot last forever. The only happiness that's eternal is internally created. External influences are short lived and lead to relationships coming to an end prematurely. I learned this from my own parents as well. My mom was always involved in things in the community and church. She created a life outside of her family that was self fulfilling and therein healthily balanced, allowing her to be defined by something other than being a wife and mother.


----------



## jlg07

@donesies, I do hope that when your friends talk to you about your EX dating some new guy, that you are completely honest and tell them that she cheated on you (and who that was/circumstances around it), and because of that you divorced her. Do NOT try to protect her reputation -- at the same time, you don't need to bad mouth her. Just clearly state the facts, that you would not tolerate that, and divorced her. Word will get around quick enough.


----------



## Imnobodynew

donesies,

Sorry I am late to the game. I have been following your thread. Id like to point out a couple of different things at this stage in your life walk..if I may:

1.) There is a difference between the perfect gal (applies to guys) and the perfect marriage. A perfect girl by definition; is just that someone/somewhere sees her past all her faults and troubles and accepts her as perfect. Reality dictates there is no perfect girl, because there is no perfect person, its just in the eye of beholder. Her attitude, teeth (haha yeah) body, hair, intellect, smile, laughter, openness, adventurousness might outweigh or dwarf her imperfections in your mind. Like I said it is in the eye of the beholder. But you have to fix this eye... So it can see clearly. Its a little muddy right now. Trauma of infidelity, fear, self-worth, these are all affecting your vision. Take the time to clean up your vision. Learn to see. grow deep in your beliefs and moral set. When you smile mean it. When you laugh, do it with gusto. Learn to be honest with yourself. This will help your inner eye understand what you really want in life and what is really important to you. This will also proof your next relationship with some proper boundaries on both of your and your partner's part. What you want and what she wants, and how to meet in the middle (covered more in the next point). If you find someone on the same path as you to walk trough this with great, but in my experience most of the time this doesn't work.... because you tend to grow apart if you don't know yourself and when you do you find you don't want what the other person has and your stuck with a no return policy (time invested in your life) Ex. if the other partner decides they want to live a ****ty life and give up the comfort and security of their moral one you cannot ask for a refund in all the time you invested.. its gone. Can anyone really know themselves, imo not completely but we can strive to learn ourselves and when we do find someone who understands themselves to a degree and feel attracted to them... Key take away... Grow yourself, reach for new boundaries, get in touch with your inner self, find out about you. Never look for others to validate you. 
The fact that your ex is on her third relationship in such a short time is telling...

2.) In a perfect marriage it doesn't matter how "perfect " two(or more) people are, it matters more that they are very willing to tolerate, compromise, mitigate, negotiate with or around the partner's issues. The more mature and self-understanding two people are the easier this becomes. They both understand and recognize their own issues (not blaming the other). They also learn to minimize them and when they do bleed over into the relationship they take responsibility. The other partner equally understanding they also have their own issues, learns to be forgiving and accepting. This more easily done with a mature recognition of their own faults. This is the melding of lives or personalities. This is not be taken lightly. It wasnt until recently that my wife and I both learned how to do this...some people never get it so they jump from relationship to relationship. This also assumes that both partners are mature enough and willing to do this. The difference with dating and marriage is that when you date your inner eye doesn't have to see all the faults. They are not always pervalant, you can ignore,explain away, everything. In marriage they cannot be avoided. You will "see" them, you cant ignore them forever, nor can you dance around them, eventually they will have to be addressed. The whole rug sweep concept often happens long before infidelity either by one or both partners... They cant understand or if they do understand, they lack courage or guts to practice being mature adults. Infidelity is the direct result of a broken moral or value system for whatever reason was hidden or swept under a rug. If maturity was practiced, they would either come and talk to you and work through it together, or if they feel like they are growing away, They would reasonably allow the situation to heal and work through it with person who invested time into them. Ultimately no one can control another nor can a situation control us. We CHOOSE our response to the stimulus around us. Anything less then that understanding is irresponsible and leads to codependent hell. 

3.) You've prob got desperate and hurt on your mantle. NO one like insecure people. Insecure people cannot choose their own response to a given emotional situation. If they are not in control of themselves... who is in control of them, scary? This leads to emotionally needy, clingy, codependent etc...NO ONE, not even you, wants this responsibility. No matter how pure the gold plating is on the package if its broken on the inside, then its broken. 

4.) Again this can be avoided by avoiding seeking out dates.... calming down. Get to know the new you. And along this journey women will pop up and if she is the right one for you will find her but don't try to force it by speed dating... not a good strategy. Be cautious. Wipe your inner lens off constantly and clearly so you can see. again CALM DOWN. Calm attracts calm, Calm makes better decisions, calm is sane. From my experience women tend to respect Men who respect themselves.  

Sorry this is long winded . I hope this helps. 
TO


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

UP date, down date, no date?


----------



## donesies

Just back for some closure 4 months out from V-day

All I can say is that you guys were right.

Having this relationship over with is a huge feeling of accomplishment. Having done it in the way I did, based on your advice, lead to what I believe was the best possible outcome. And I mean that personally, professionally, and financially. Filing immediately let me keep my dignity and allowed me to push through this process while she still had stars in her eyes for this OM (which of course, didn’t last).

As for dating, I took a step back and realized what I had going for me and I started acting like it. I think my ex was so in my head that I felt I had to prove something to the next girl. I have now learned to be myself again, which has made dating much more successful and enjoyable. I’ve met probably 6 girls that I am way more interested in than my EX.

I bought a new house and I am in the process of selling the marital home. It’s just not right for me anymore. 

I have a reminder in my phone to stop making excuses and don’t fall into the victim mentality.


----------



## Taxman

Well done sir, well done. What happened to your ex? Did Karma bite her in the a$$?


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> I bought a new house and I am in the process of selling the marital home. It’s just not right for me anymore.


This is good. Make it into a man-cave that any guy would be proud of: weight room, extra large screen TV, wet bar, and paintings of nude black women with enormous afros in your bedroom. Yeah...


----------



## donesies

Taxman said:


> Well done sir, well done. What happened to your ex? Did Karma bite her in the a$$?


Who knows. I am at the point where I am no longer interested in whether or not she even draws breath on this planet.


----------



## donesies

bandit.45 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a new house and I am in the process of selling the marital home. It’s just not right for me anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> This is good. Make it into a man-cave that any guy would be proud of: weight room, extra large screen TV, wet bar, and paintings of nude black women with enormous afros in your bedroom. Yeah...
Click to expand...

check...check...ummm...wth??


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> check...check...ummm...wth??


It'll give you some street cred.


----------



## Taxman

Yeah, that part about the nude paintings? Nah, had a pad back in the day. Those nude paintings? My guy friends loved them. The ladies were turned off. Replaced them with a lot of tasteful abstracts. Replaced the one in my bedroom with an original by John Lennon. (It was well before he passed and it cost a lot back then-sold it in the early 80's for significantly more than I had paid-and replaced it with a lithograph of the same work.)

If you have a nice place, tastefully decorated, with a few touches that say you are stable, have good taste, and make a decent amount of money, you will be inundated by females. As we said, Donesies, your ex is a blithering idiot. You do not walk away from a doctor, with a good income and who is devoted. She obviously has brain damage. The lucky woman who gets you, wins the lottery. Your ex is nothing more than a loser.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

bandit.45 said:


> It'll give you some street cred.


Bwhahahahaha!!!

Black light paintings of erotic 70s afro art. Jeebus you're bad!

I was going to go with the "lumber-sexual" "hipster" thing for street cred. But what the hell, go with bandit's idea. It may just work.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> check...check...ummm...wth??


Great on everything. The opposite of hatred is apathy. You have reached apathy as far as the ex is concerned and that is the optimum position you should be in.

Bandit 45: LOL? WTF! You kill me dude:grin2:


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies:

With your new you, you are now in the position we all have been pointing towards for you. Most of us would kill to be in that position, if we were single that is. Go get em buddy!! The world is your oyster now!!!


----------



## Suspicious1

I'm ecstatic about you're progress, things will appear insignificant in your rearview mirror.

Beat of luck

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## jlg07

bandit.45 said:


> This is good. Make it into a man-cave that any guy would be proud of: weight room, extra large screen TV, wet bar, and paintings of nude black women with enormous afros in your bedroom. Yeah...


Bandit, only if he grows a 70's porn mustache and has the theme of Shaft playing in the background.....


----------



## bandit.45

jlg07 said:


> Bandit, only if he grows a 70's porn mustache and has the theme of Shaft playing in the background.....


The soul-drenched music of Isaac Hayes is a time-tested aphrodisiac for making sweet love to a woman.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies:

Just wondering how things are going for you. Been about 3 months now.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> donesies:
> 
> Just wondering how things are going for you. Been about 3 months now.


Hi Skerzoid. 

Sorry - I wasn't alerted when you posted, but was going to come back and give an update anyway.

This whole thing feels like such distant history. I have seen my ex ONCE since the finalization of the divorce. It was in traffic and no glances were exchanged. Otherwise nothing aside from occasional pictures popping up on FB. She has a new BF and I only know this from a picture of them together as his FB profile pic. It was tough for me to see (this was about a month ago)....but I was over it in (literally) a couple hours. Anyway, there is very little left of my connection to her. I wrapped up paperwork in terms of real-estate, insurance, etc which was one of the last things I needed to do. Now I only paypal her alimony once a month. In summary: I am at peace with her and me and the whole situation. I don't like her or respect her, but I wish her well. I can't wait until I don't have to pay her anymore.

As for me, I ended up taking your advice and got an online dating profile. As predicted, it was wildly successful. I struggled early on which I shared with you guys, but I read a few books about modern dating and I applied it and things took off. There were some key things that I was doing which made me look and sound desperate (as you guys mentioned). I simply stopped doing those things and it became pretty easy.

One of the girls that I found online was absolutely amazing. We'll call her Ann. The other girls were fun and beautiful and we had a connection, but this one was 1000x more intense in every way. Ann is gorgeous and smart and accomplished. No kids and a divorce some 2 years ago under similar circumstances (she caught him with someone else). I love her personality and her sense of humor. I fell hard for her. Like the books say, I played hard to get which I believe was intriguing to her since she is so beautiful and she is constantly getting so much attention. Ann SLOWLY (over 2 months) warmed to me to point that she has invited me to meet all her friends and, just this week, she asked if I would be her boyfriend. I absolutely agreed and I took down my dating profiles and told the other girls no (which was very emotional. I did like them - just not like Ann). 

It isn't perfect. Ann is still not super affectionate in public (she definitely is in bed, etc) and I don't feel her burning desire for me like I did with the other girls, but I feel like we are growing stronger with each date. I am also very standoffish - because of not wanting to look desperate and I want to give her all of the space in the world to CHOOSE me. She's obviously been hurt the way that I have.

So here we are. I am 7 months out of my previous marriage and in a committed relationship with a girl that lights a fire in my soul. I don't know where it's going, but I'm excited to find out. Let me know if you have other questions.


----------



## [email protected]

donesies, congratulations! This is heartening news.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Toldja so, donsies! After a while you'll realize that the divorce was the best thing to ever happen to you!


----------



## TDSC60

Just don't play TOO hard to get or be TOO standoffish at this point.

Have fun and be yourself DO NOT PLAY GAMES with her.

Have fun.


----------



## sokillme

donesies said:


> Hi Skerzoid.
> 
> Sorry - I wasn't alerted when you posted, but was going to come back and give an update anyway.
> 
> This whole thing feels like such distant history. I have seen my ex ONCE since the finalization of the divorce. It was in traffic and no glances were exchanged. Otherwise nothing aside from occasional pictures popping up on FB. She has a new BF and I only know this from a picture of them together as his FB profile pic. It was tough for me to see (this was about a month ago)....but I was over it in (literally) a couple hours. Anyway, there is very little left of my connection to her. I wrapped up paperwork in terms of real-estate, insurance, etc which was one of the last things I needed to do. Now I only paypal her alimony once a month. In summary: I am at peace with her and me and the whole situation. I don't like her or respect her, but I wish her well. I can't wait until I don't have to pay her anymore.
> 
> As for me, I ended up taking your advice and got an online dating profile. As predicted, it was wildly successful. I struggled early on which I shared with you guys, but I read a few books about modern dating and I applied it and things took off. There were some key things that I was doing which made me look and sound desperate (as you guys mentioned). I simply stopped doing those things and it became pretty easy.
> 
> One of the girls that I found online was absolutely amazing. We'll call her Ann. The other girls were fun and beautiful and we had a connection, but this one was 1000x more intense in every way. Ann is gorgeous and smart and accomplished. No kids and a divorce some 2 years ago under similar circumstances (she caught him with someone else). I love her personality and her sense of humor. I fell hard for her. Like the books say, I played hard to get which I believe was intriguing to her since she is so beautiful and she is constantly getting so much attention. Ann SLOWLY (over 2 months) warmed to me to point that she has invited me to meet all her friends and, just this week, she asked if I would be her boyfriend. I absolutely agreed and I took down my dating profiles and told the other girls no (which was very emotional. I did like them - just not like Ann).
> 
> It isn't perfect. Ann is still not super affectionate in public (she definitely is in bed, etc) and I don't feel her burning desire for me like I did with the other girls, but I feel like we are growing stronger with each date. I am also very standoffish - because of not wanting to look desperate and I want to give her all of the space in the world to CHOOSE me. She's obviously been hurt the way that I have.
> 
> So here we are. I am 7 months out of my previous marriage and in a committed relationship with a girl that lights a fire in my soul. I don't know where it's going, but I'm excited to find out. Let me know if you have other questions.


Another example of why moving forth with strength is the best way to save you life. Instead of years of pain and indecision you kept your self respect and got your life back. @donesies I am glad you followed the advice and you made it through. I didn't post on your thread after the very beginning probably because it got lost in all the other ones but what I did post was to try to empower you so you could get through the initial pain that you feel when this happens to you. Now you know what it's like and that there is light at the end of the tunnel please stick around and lend your voice here for the others that will come along, to pay it forward. I think that is what everyone needs when this happens to them. The knowledge that there is hope you can add your voice to that.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Hi Skerzoid.
> 
> Sorry - I wasn't alerted when you posted, but was going to come back and give an update anyway.
> 
> This whole thing feels like such distant history. I have seen my ex ONCE since the finalization of the divorce. It was in traffic and no glances were exchanged. Otherwise nothing aside from occasional pictures popping up on FB. She has a new BF and I only know this from a picture of them together as his FB profile pic. It was tough for me to see (this was about a month ago)....but I was over it in (literally) a couple hours. Anyway, there is very little left of my connection to her. I wrapped up paperwork in terms of real-estate, insurance, etc which was one of the last things I needed to do. Now I only paypal her alimony once a month. In summary: I am at peace with her and me and the whole situation. I don't like her or respect her, but I wish her well. I can't wait until I don't have to pay her anymore.
> 
> As for me, I ended up taking your advice and got an online dating profile. As predicted, it was wildly successful. I struggled early on which I shared with you guys, but I read a few books about modern dating and I applied it and things took off. There were some key things that I was doing which made me look and sound desperate (as you guys mentioned). I simply stopped doing those things and it became pretty easy.
> 
> One of the girls that I found online was absolutely amazing. We'll call her Ann. The other girls were fun and beautiful and we had a connection, but this one was 1000x more intense in every way. Ann is gorgeous and smart and accomplished. No kids and a divorce some 2 years ago under similar circumstances (she caught him with someone else). I love her personality and her sense of humor. I fell hard for her. Like the books say, I played hard to get which I believe was intriguing to her since she is so beautiful and she is constantly getting so much attention. Ann SLOWLY (over 2 months) warmed to me to point that she has invited me to meet all her friends and, just this week, she asked if I would be her boyfriend. I absolutely agreed and I took down my dating profiles and told the other girls no (which was very emotional. I did like them - just not like Ann).
> 
> It isn't perfect. Ann is still not super affectionate in public (she definitely is in bed, etc) and I don't feel her burning desire for me like I did with the other girls, but I feel like we are growing stronger with each date. I am also very standoffish - because of not wanting to look desperate and I want to give her all of the space in the world to CHOOSE me. She's obviously been hurt the way that I have.
> 
> So here we are. I am 7 months out of my previous marriage and in a committed relationship with a girl that lights a fire in my soul. I don't know where it's going, but I'm excited to find out. Let me know if you have other questions.


I saw this coming when you couldn't. I recall specifically recall posting, I can't wait until you are six months out and looking back and here you are. Awesome. Life is beautiful when you allow it to be. Other betrayed spouses, take heed of donesies! The sun rises every single day without fail.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> So here we are. I am 7 months out of my previous marriage and in a committed relationship with a girl that lights a fire in my soul. I don't know where it's going, but I'm excited to find out. Let me know if you have other questions.


Thanks for the update. Yours is one of the very inspirational stories I have seen.

It was good to hear from you. After I had my heart broken, I met the woman who became my wife, gave me two great kids, and four grandkids.

However, if things went south, I knew that I would have never have allowed myself to be as hurt as I was before. It was like being inoculated. I hope that you have found that woman, and I wish you only the best. But now you know the way to protect yourself and your dignity. Always remain strong and true to yourself. You are the prize. 

Let us know how you are doing from time to time. We are all still rooting for you.:wink2:


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Great Update.


----------



## donesies

So after not hearing from my ex for months. She sent me an email that said: 

“I need to send you a written correspondence. What address should I send it to?”

What do you think this could be about and how would you respond?


----------



## Just another

Get a PO Box or have her send it to your lawyer.


----------



## dubsey

ask what it's pertaining, or tell her to scan it at email it.

or, ignore it.


----------



## donesies

Don’t know if this matters, but I just learned she’s getting married


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> Don’t know if this matters, but I just learned she’s getting married


You know, I should not matter to you at all. 

Get a PO box if you are worried about her knowing your mailing address...


----------



## donesies

BluesPower said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t know if this matters, but I just learned she’s getting married
> 
> 
> 
> You know, I should not matter to you at all.
> 
> Get a PO box if you are worried about her knowing your mailing address...
Click to expand...

Just wondering if her email might have something to do with her getting married. Emotionally I don’t care - good for her


----------



## Bananapeel

If she's sending a written correspondence it usually means it's a legal document of some sort. Anything else can go through the phone or e-mail.


----------



## Kamstel

She wouldn’t be so heartless as to send you an invite, would she?

Have her send it to lawyer’s office


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> So after not hearing from my ex for months. She sent me an email that said:
> 
> “I need to send you a written correspondence. What address should I send it to?”
> 
> What do you think this could be about and how would you respond?


“Keep it. I don’t want it.”


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Don’t know if this matters, but I just learned she’s getting married


She gets married that is the end of alimony.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> So after not hearing from my ex for months. She sent me an email that said:
> 
> “I need to send you a written correspondence. What address should I send it to?”
> 
> What do you think this could be about and how would you respond?


Tell her to send to the hospital.


----------



## skerzoid

Donesies,

What's the big drama? If you don't care, it won't hurt you. Do you have a business address? Send it there. The opposite of love is indifference. Are you indifferent to her now? 

How are things going personally lately?

Just wondering.

Now she's just somebody that you used to know. You are the female part here and she is the male part.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Wedding invitation?

Make her send whatever it is to your attorney. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## donesies

Kamstel said:


> She wouldn’t be so heartless as to send you an invite, would she?
> 
> Have her send it to lawyer’s office


No way it’s an invite. Probably wants money or something


----------



## faithfulman

donesies said:


> No way it’s an invite. Probably wants money or something


Well, if it is a wedding invitation, you should definitely attend, and propose a toast: I'd like to say a few words about my ex-wife...


----------



## Tobyboy

donesies said:


> No way it’s an invite. Probably wants money or something


Yeah. Probably wants you to finance her IVF treatments with her soon to be husband.


----------



## Lostinthought61

I wonder if someone should tell her would be husband that he is marrying a cheater...


----------



## Decorum

Does she not know where you live?


----------



## lucy999

@donesies how are you going to respond?


----------



## VladDracul

It may be a plea from her boyfriend begging you to take her back before the wedding.


----------



## MattMatt

donesies said:


> No way it’s an invite. Probably wants money or something


Oh, it could be a wedding invitation. Why wouldn't she want her best friend at her wedding? 

I had a wedding invitation from my ex girlfriend.

I was bemused and somewhat amused about how clueless she was.


----------



## ButtPunch

Ignore it.

Probably going to offer you some great "lump settlement" alimony deal


----------



## Tex X

Personally I would just delete the email and go about your day. She knows where you work, and I can't imagine it would be that hard for her to find out where you live (if she doesn't already). I think she wants to see what your response is. Who knows why and who cares. Delete.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I wouldn't respond. If it's something legal, she has your attorney's address. Responding to her, even if it's just providing your address, will suggest that you've partially forgiven her. That might be what she's looking for. 

What a piece of work, getting married so quickly after a failed marriage and a failed affair. Hasn't anyone called her aside and told her how flaky and childish she's been? Does she have no family? How will this relationship not end up the same as all the others?


----------



## TDSC60

Definitely tell her to send it to your attorney. Or rent a PO Box as your mailing address. Or just tell her to mail it to your attention at work.

Have there been any big changes in your professional life? Increase in salary? Promotion?

A friend of mine divorced his cheating wife. When he got a promotion with the associated increase in salary, she filed to have her support payments increased. She probably will not get anything. I think she still wants to yank his chain at every opportunity.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> So after not hearing from my ex for months. She sent me an email that said:
> 
> “I need to send you a written correspondence. What address should I send it to?”
> 
> What do you think this could be about and how would you respond?


The letter is probably some long dawn-out "why" fest to absolve her good conscience and validate her decision with the entire ordeal. 

Give the address to the local landfill.


----------



## Tex X

1060 West Addison


----------



## dubsey

^ nice


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Maybe she wants an advance on the alimony to pay for the wedding.


----------



## dubsey

or more likely, she wants an advance on alimony because, if/when she gets remarried, it could/would be adjusted accordingly


----------



## skerzoid

Tex X said:


> 1060 West Addison


Go Cubbies!!! :smile2:


----------



## Yeswecan

Advise the address is 1313 Mockingbird Lane.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

I'm surpised she didn't do that neat trick where she secretly lives with the guy for 2 years, unmarried, so they can live off your alimony together and you can pay for his Porsche. Maybe her letter is an offer: i.e. "give me 1 year of payment now and I won't drag this out for 2."


----------



## donesies

Well guys. Sort of amazing: my ex got married. I got out of a couple hundred thousand dollars in alimony. That’s the good news. 

The bad news is that this new girl that I’ve been seeing has gone crazy and we are not together anymore. She truly was certifiable.

It’s interesting going through again because I have the following realizations: 

1. I can fall in love again 

2. I can get over relationships and heart break more easily. This one just happened a couple days ago and I feel better already. I think because I am not reliant on this girl for happiness. I make my own happiness. I’m smart and good-looking and successful and I deserve better. 

3. I’ve recognized that I can get a high caliber of woman. She was beautiful and smart and successful. The only problem was that she was crazy. Not her fault, but not something I can live with anyway.

Anyway want to share with you guys the most recent. It all just feels so weird, but I am strangely at peace


----------



## Kamstel

Congratulations on escaping the alimony. I can’t believe she did it. I would’ve just assumed that she would’ve lived with a guy and had you continue paying the monthly alimony.

As for the crazy ex-girlfriend, also all good news. It’s fantastic what you learned.


----------



## donesies

Kamstel said:


> Congratulations on escaping the alimony. I can’t believe she did it. I would’ve just assumed that she would’ve lived with a guy and had you continue paying the monthly alimony.
> 
> As for the crazy ex-girlfriend, also all good news. It’s fantastic what you learned.


It’s amazing. I can’t understand it EXCEPT that she didn’t have health insurance so if she had a major medical problem, she may have needed to do this. Otherwise she’s just an idiot. Then again, maybe they make it 50 years together 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Marc878

Nope, the man she married is an idiot.

You have no idea how much pain you avoided by filing on that.


----------



## BluesPower

donesies said:


> Well guys. Sort of amazing: my ex got married. I got out of a couple hundred thousand dollars in alimony. That’s the good news.
> 
> The bad news is that this new girl that I’ve been seeing has gone crazy and we are not together anymore. She truly was certifiable.
> 
> It’s interesting going through again because I have the following realizations:
> 
> 1. I can fall in love again
> 
> 2. I can get over relationships and heart break more easily. This one just happened a couple days ago and I feel better already. I think because I am not reliant on this girl for happiness. I make my own happiness. I’m smart and good-looking and successful and I deserve better.
> 
> 3. I’ve recognized that I can get a high caliber of woman. She was beautiful and smart and successful. The only problem was that she was crazy. Not her fault, but not something I can live with anyway.
> 
> Anyway want to share with you guys the most recent. It all just feels so weird, but I am strangely at peace


Overall that all sounds pretty great. Sorry about the new girl, but dude it happens. 

The key is to ditch crazy as soon as it surfaces, just a clean break. And hope to god that they do not chase after you...


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> Well guys. Sort of amazing: my ex got married. I got out of a couple hundred thousand dollars in alimony. That’s the good news.
> 
> The bad news is that this new girl that I’ve been seeing has gone crazy and we are not together anymore. She truly was certifiable.


You lucky dog, she has to be an idiot to marry and lose alimony. 

The moment you start getting that feeling she's crazy feeling RUN! It only get harder to get rid of them later.


----------



## donesies

honcho said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well guys. Sort of amazing: my ex got married. I got out of a couple hundred thousand dollars in alimony. That’s the good news.
> 
> The bad news is that this new girl that I’ve been seeing has gone crazy and we are not together anymore. She truly was certifiable.
> 
> 
> 
> You lucky dog, she has to be an idiot to marry and lose alimony.
> 
> The moment you start getting that feeling she's crazy feeling RUN! It only get harder to get rid of them later.
Click to expand...

I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this: 

Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night

WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.

Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)

I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.


----------



## Decorum

So what did she send you?


----------



## donesies

Decorum said:


> So what did she send you?


A letter telling me that I no longer owed alimony


----------



## Andy1001

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.


Don’t look for any complicated reason for her craziness,some people are just crazy.
For what it’s worth I think she is an alcoholic and even the amount you seen her drinking was probably only a fraction of what she was putting away.Did she have to go to the bathroom more often than what would be considered usual or did she have to pop out to her car for a minute every so often.Even cigarette breaks are a chance for a secret lush to imbibe.
The wetting the bed is pointing towards this and the nasty texts are par for the course.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.


Alcohol problem and maybe coked up too. 

Put her back in the pond and run. Next.


----------



## Edmund

donesies said:


> A letter telling me that I no longer owed alimony



Cut her off immediately without comment. She just wanted you to know she got another husband, to open the wound again. Her attorney could have notified yours for the purpose of discontinuation of spousal support.


----------



## Edmund

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.



Don’t try to fix mental illness if you can avoid it. I have experience with this. This woman is not your wife or relative or patient. You have no obligation or duty to her. Cut her off completely.

Also, if you happen to run into XW’s new husband down the road, advise him to read her journal.


----------



## Edmund

Donesies, what is the general nature of the “club” your XW is/was involved in? Was it an athletic thing like running or a hobby or collecting thing? I’ve been wondering this since the beginning of your thread. Why you couldn’t tell us back then.


----------



## donesies

Edmund said:


> Donesies, what is the general nature of the “club” your XW is/was involved in? Was it an athletic thing like running or a hobby or collecting thing? I’ve been wondering this since the beginning of your thread. Why you couldn’t tell us back then.


Oh sorry. I guess it doesn’t matter now. It’s a place where home businesses go to have an office space. They call it a co-working space. They have internet and computer terminals and other forms of networking.


----------



## donesies

Edmund said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> A letter telling me that I no longer owed alimony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut her off immediately without comment. She just wanted you to know she got another husband, to open the wound again. Her attorney could have notified yours for the purpose of discontinuation of spousal support.
Click to expand...

We didn’t use lawyers


----------



## donesies

Andy1001 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.
> 
> 
> 
> Don’t look for any complicated reason for her craziness,some people are just crazy.
> For what it’s worth I think she is an alcoholic and even the amount you seen her drinking was probably only a fraction of what she was putting away.Did she have to go to the bathroom more often than what would be considered usual or did she have to pop out to her car for a minute every so often.Even cigarette breaks are a chance for a secret lush to imbibe.
> The wetting the bed is pointing towards this and the nasty texts are par for the course.
Click to expand...

She was definitely drunk when she wet the bed. Pretty sure she was an alcoholic but she has more issues than this 

Sometimes she would go whacky in the middle of the day and send weird pointless texts that made no sense. Pretty sure she wasn’t drinking then

Anyway, I can’t live with her as is. It stings, but I agree that I can’t fix her. I guess I was hopeful that it was situational (she is going through a lot right now and she was not like this during our first 2 months together) and/or just temporary. She dated someone for a year that ended earlier this year so it seems like there’s potential for stability. I’m wondering if this could all blow over and we could be happy. No idea.


----------



## Rob_1

@Donsies said: "’I'm wondering if this could all blow over and we could be happy. No idea."

There you go again, self-doubting, double guessing again. 

Dude, forget about it already. Whatever she is, better you do not really find out.


----------



## Andy1001

@donesies you don’t need a project.You have your work life to help people with their ailments,you don’t need to come home to it as well.
Stop looking for a replacement for your wife,just have some fun for a while.


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.


Why in the hell would you want to make this your problem to fix?


----------



## Edmund

donesies said:


> Oh sorry. I guess it doesn’t matter now. It’s a place where home businesses go to have an office space. They call it a co-working space. They have internet and computer terminals and other forms of networking.


Thanks for your reply.


----------



## Lostinthought61

as far as you know she is not taking pills ? Curious Doc does she know who she is talking to when she sends text? does she display any paranoid traits that would suggest that an ex or someone is watching her or checking up on her? the bed wetting is definitely disconcerting.


----------



## Edmund

donesies said:


> She was definitely drunk when she wet the bed. Pretty sure she was an alcoholic but she has more issues than this
> 
> Sometimes she would go whacky in the middle of the day and send weird pointless texts that made no sense. Pretty sure she wasn’t drinking then
> 
> Anyway, I can’t live with her as is. It stings, but I agree that I can’t fix her. I guess I was hopeful that it was situational (she is going through a lot right now and she was not like this during our first 2 months together) and/or just temporary. She dated someone for a year that ended earlier this year so it seems like there’s potential for stability. I’m wondering if this could all blow over and we could be happy. No idea.


I had a girlfriend in college in the early 70s who was like this. She married a guy, had a couple of kids, had a good career, then, in the mid 90s, she suddenly died. Of a brain tumor. Explained a lot.


----------



## VFW

donesies said:


> I guess I was hopeful that it was situational (she is going through a lot right now and she was not like this during our first 2 months together) and/or just temporary. She dated someone for a year that ended earlier this year so it seems like there’s potential for stability. I’m wondering if this could all blow over and we could be happy. No idea.


You need to get away from this Knight in Shining Armor (KISA) syndrome, this will always lure you to someone that is a fixer upper. There are millions of women in this country, many of which are beautiful, caring and well worth your time. These are the ones need to concentrate on as possible mates. I say this because I did that once myself. I saw the potential that she had and knew what she was capable of if she worked to fix certain things in her life. This comes to nothing, because you can't fix them. After we divorced I was on my own for a few years and found a wonderful young lady and we have been happily married for many years.


----------



## Decorum

donesies said:


> A letter telling me that I no longer owed alimony


Allow me, ...this frame is available at Walmart for only $79.50:woohoo:
:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:


----------



## donesies

Lostinthought61 said:


> as far as you know she is not taking pills ? Curious Doc does she know who she is talking to when she sends text? does she display any paranoid traits that would suggest that an ex or someone is watching her or checking up on her? the bed wetting is definitely disconcerting.


I don’t know if any pills she’s using. No clue if she knows it’s me she’s messaging. I believe she does. Not paranoid with regard to other guys, but she did get paranoid that I was talking to other girls (I wasn’t). That was her first blowup and our first breakup.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> A letter telling me that I no longer owed alimony


Excellent!


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Well guys. Sort of amazing: my ex got married. I got out of a couple hundred thousand dollars in alimony. That’s the good news.
> 
> The bad news is that this new girl that I’ve been seeing has gone crazy and we are not together anymore. She truly was certifiable.


Bummer!


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.


1. & 2. Sounds like a physical rather than psychological problem. Do you have Neurologist friend? I would check with them if you do.

3. Holy Golden Showers Batman!!

4. Could be early onset Alzheimer's. Some cases in their thirties.


----------



## lucy999

donesies said:


> That was her first blowup and our first breakup.


And your LAST breakup. She sounds BSC. STAY AWAY AND LOSE HER NUMBER.

And congrats!!!!!on no more alimony holy **** you should play the mega million no one won today! You're on a roll!!!


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Find the girl that doesn't come with red flags. Take your time and don't act impulsively. Your ex got married impulsively and will be divorced once again someday.


----------



## colingrant

She's off. Simple as that. T-a-k-e ......y-o-u-r ........t-i-m-e. Commit to not committing for a little while and just enjoy single life. No significant others, just others until you find the one. Could be in six months or six years. Fight the temptation of receiving validation and recovery from being with a significant other. I recall after being cheated on I went to dating service within a week. 

The woman who interviewed me at the dating service could tell I was rebounding and couldn't believe I was in her office looking for a female. In so many words told me I didn't need a dating service, but if I insist she would offer me a free membership as she didn't have enough attractive male options for the number of single female members (Washington DC) she was seeking matches for. I realized it was a desperate move on my part and never went back. 

One thing about dating is the more you do it, the better you get at it. It's like anything else where repetition breeds improvement. You've been out of the dating scene for a while and was somewhat reluctantly forced into it. Another option is to not date. Tried that one as well. Just focused on work and me. I was a little lonely, but I was getting stronger and more confident. Once I removed the pressure to find someone, even if it was just for dating purposes, life began to be fun again for me personally and a happy, content, peaceful person is an attractive person to the opposite sex.


----------



## donesies

colingrant said:


> She's off. Simple as that. T-a-k-e ......y-o-u-r ........t-i-m-e. Commit to not committing for a little while and just enjoy single life. No significant others, just others until you find the one. Could be in six months or six years. Fight the temptation of receiving validation and recovery from being with a significant other. I recall after being cheated on I went to dating service within a week.
> 
> The woman who interviewed me at the dating service could tell I was rebounding and couldn't believe I was in her office looking for a female. In so many words told me I didn't need a dating service, but if I insist she would offer me a free membership as she didn't have enough attractive male options for the number of single female members (Washington DC) she was seeking matches for. I realized it was a desperate move on my part and never went back.
> 
> One thing about dating is the more you do it, the better you get at it. It's like anything else where repetition breeds improvement. You've been out of the dating scene for a while and was somewhat reluctantly forced into it. Another option is to not date. Tried that one as well. Just focused on work and me. I was a little lonely, but I was getting stronger and more confident. Once I removed the pressure to find someone, even if it was just for dating purposes, life began to be fun again for me personally and a happy, content, peaceful person is an attractive person to the opposite sex.


TBH, I don’t really have a problem with getting girls now. I am happy and content and successful and in good shape.

I was not looking for anyone serious when I met this girl, but I absolutely fell for her. Then she drops me in a day for nebulous reasons. That’s what made this hard. But it’s nothing like I went through with the divorce and I will come out of this just fine


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> TBH, I don’t really have a problem with getting girls now. I am happy and content and successful and in good shape.
> 
> I was not looking for anyone serious when I met this girl, but I absolutely fell for her. Then she drops me in a day for nebulous reasons. That’s what made this hard. But it’s nothing like I went through with the divorce and I will come out of this just fine


You are now inoculated to a broken heart. You will never again allow anyone to have all of you. That is the gift of infidelity. Your heart is now covered in scar tissue.


----------



## Taxman

Doctor: You have dodged two major bullets. Good for you. You have your finances intact, you are a physician, and you know that a good looking single physician in his prime is a magnet. This time sort through them with a fine toothed comb. (I say this as the father of a young physician, who found the guy-a damn good man ) There is a damn good woman out there, take your time to find her. Now that you have been twice bitten, get your requirements mentally listed, and find the woman that deserves you.


----------



## Diana7

skerzoid said:


> You are now inoculated to a broken heart. You will never again allow anyone to have all of you. That is the gift of infidelity. Your heart is now covered in scar tissue.


Not sure I agree with that, we are both happily married and completely 100% committed second time round.


----------



## Chaparral

donesies said:


> TBH, I don’t really have a problem with getting girls now. I am happy and content and successful and in good shape.
> 
> I was not looking for anyone serious when I met this girl, but I absolutely fell for her. Then she drops me in a day for nebulous reasons. That’s what made this hard. But it’s nothing like I went through with the divorce and I will come out of this just fine


Accusing you of seeing someone else is a golden red flag for cheating. Sounds like she may have had other boyfriend or ex issues. Drinking enough to wet the bed is game over anyway.


----------



## Taxman

Doc, you just found another nutcase. You have to kiss a few toads before you get to the princess.


----------



## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> Accusing you of seeing someone else is a golden red flag for cheating. Sounds like she may have had other boyfriend or ex issues. *Drinking enough to wet the bed is game over anyway.*


For reals.


----------



## skerzoid

Diana7 said:


> Not sure I agree with that, we are both happily married and completely 100% committed second time round.


If we have learned anything from life and this site, it's that infidelity can strike the happiest of marriages. It's like a virus.

There are a multitude of stories on these sites of seemingly happy marriages, attractive partners, wonderful children, great finances, being destroyed by incredibly stupid & seemingly insane actions. 

The ancient Romans spoke of Cupid's arrows and the damage they could do. 

However, I am happy for you that you have found true love and that things are going well for you. May you never part. 

*And may "Stupid Cupid" never shoot anything in your direction.*


----------



## Diana7

skerzoid said:


> If we have learned anything from life and this site, it's that infidelity can strike the happiest of marriages. It's like a virus.
> 
> There are a multitude of stories on these sites of seemingly happy marriages, attractive partners, wonderful children, great finances, being destroyed by incredibly stupid & seemingly insane actions.
> 
> The ancient Romans spoke of Cupid's arrows and the damage they could do.
> 
> However, I am happy for you that you have found true love and that things are going well for you. May you never part.
> 
> *And may "Stupid Cupid" never shoot anything in your direction.*


I was really answering your comment where you said that we will never give all of yourself again after betrayal. I was just saying that people do and can. Trust takes time but you can trust that new person fully even after you have been deeply hurt in the past. I know that my husband trusts me completely, and his former wife of 23 years cheated on him. He knows that I hate cheating with a passion. I have seen so many among my family and friend whose families fell apart after cheating. I saw what it did to my mum and brother to have cheating spouses. I would never do that to anyone.


----------



## skerzoid

Diana7 said:


> I was really answering your comment where you said that we will never give all of yourself again after betrayal. I was just saying that people do and can. Trust takes time but you can trust that new person fully even after you have been deeply hurt in the past. I know that my husband trusts me completely, and his former wife of 23 years cheated on him. He knows that I hate cheating with a passion. I have seen so many among my family and friend whose families fell apart after cheating. I saw what it did to my mum and brother to have cheating spouses. I would never do that to anyone.


The point is, are we better able to deal with cheating after we have our heart broken by a cheater. Does it make us tougher and more resistant, are we able to give ourselves completely after having suffered heartbreak? That was my point. 

You think one can, but I feel differently.


----------



## Diana7

skerzoid said:


> The point is, are we better able to deal with cheating after we have our heart broken by a cheater. Does it make us tougher and more resistant, are we able to give ourselves completely after having suffered heartbreak? That was my point.
> 
> You think one can, but I feel differently.


Well, I am a tough lady anyway, made tougher by all I have been though, but for me marriage and love is committing yourself 100% to that person, so to hold back part of yourself means you loose out I think. I guess I am one of those people who has hope that things will be better, that what happened once doesn't have to happen again, that its possible to love and trust fully again. It can take time, but its possible.

I do think that we are more careful in some ways after betrayal. I was far more sure of the sort of man I wanted to marry and I wasn't prepared to compromise. I recognised fully the mistakes I had made first time round when I was very young and chose the man despite some red flags.For example, he didn't share my faith, his moral values were lower than mine, he wasn't always truthful etc etc. When you are 18/19 you don't always recognise these things as problems. Second time round and being much much older, in my 40's, I was only interested in a man who shared my faith, was honest, had integrity, hadn't slept around, had strong moral values etc etc.I had to wait a long time for him, but it was worth sticking to my guns. He is all of those things.


----------



## BluesPower

skerzoid said:


> The point is, are we better able to deal with cheating after we have our heart broken by a cheater. Does it make us tougher and more resistant, are we able to give ourselves completely after having suffered heartbreak? That was my point.
> 
> You think one can, but I feel differently.


You know, I think you can, I think. I also think we are more cautious for sure. More experienced for sure. 

With my GF, as wonderful as she is literally in every way, truth be told I am scared in a way. If I am going to be in a committed LTR, or possible marry, I don't know... even for me I am scared. 

Not about cheating or craziness, or any of that. But what if, 2, 3, 5 years down the road it does not work? 

Now matter what there will be some heartbreak if it goes bad. And you have to untangle everything again. 

On the other hand, what option do you really have? Sleeping around is fun, for a while, but you know it gets old. 

So you take the plunge I guess...


----------



## Bananapeel

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.


She is emotional and her actions are following her emotions, which are rapidly changing, hence the illogical behavior. Usually when women go hot and cold like this it's because they have another guy in the background (usually an ex) that they aren't completely over so their emotions are vacillating between wanting to be with you and being angry with you for not being the other guy. The other time is if they have unhealthy ideas of commitment/relationships from being sexually abused as a child so getting close to you makes them want to escape but then they regret their actions. Tie in some alcoholism/drugs and it really brings it out. 

Regardless, you've made the wise choice with her so understanding her background really doesn't make any difference at this point.


----------



## donesies

Girl is back asking for another chance. Something about pushing people away that she loves because of her divorce.

Damn I wish I didn’t like her


----------



## lucy999

donesies said:


> Girl is back asking for another chance. Something about pushing people away that she loves because of her divorce.
> 
> Damn I wish I didn’t like her


You are as BSC as her if you even entertain the notion. DO NOT! And that's a laughable bull**** excuse if I ever heard one. Y-A-W-N. She could have at least come up with something original. Puuhhlease. She's a loon. Even if it were true, doesn't excuse the fact that SHE WET THE ****ING BED. Gross. I don't care if she was ****ing blotto wasted that's disgusting.

How come you didn't lose her number?!

Dude. Don't EVEN.


----------



## GusPolinski

donesies said:


> Girl is back asking for another chance. Something about pushing people away that she loves because of her divorce.
> 
> Damn I wish I didn’t like her


Noooooooooooooooooooo...


----------



## Marc878

Putting on your armor, jumping on your charger and galloping off to rescue this damsel is a fools errand.

Better wake up bud


----------



## skerzoid

I had made a really snide remark about Depends, but then I thought donesies is asking for real advice. Okay, here you go:

1. *Require* that she get IC for herself.

2. *Require* that she join AA.

3. *Require* a medical check up focusing on possible physical problems that may be leading to these really odd actions.

4. *Require* that she put down on paper her reasons for attacking you. Make her think it out. Set a tone here.

5. Explain that you will be watching her actions, *not her words*, in overcoming the hurtful things that she is doing that are destroying your relationship.

6. *Tell her you are backing off *till she shows she is willing to do these positive actions to prove her love for you and that she is on a short leash & any more instances of this behavior will prove that she is not willing to put in the work to be with you.

7. Last, *but not least*, question yourself as to why you are still considering dealing with someone who is obviously so damaged that she would _"hurt the people that she loves because of her divorce"_. *Donesies, really think hard on this one.* _You are a prize catch, make sure you are not selling yourself short here._


----------



## GusPolinski

_Require_ that she buy you a new mattress and then GTFO.


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> I’m curious if you guys have ever dealt with this:
> 
> Strange (completely non-sensicsl) texts in the middle of the night
> 
> WEIRD sudden nasty messages that basically told me I was scum and was terrible in bed. Then apologies the next day wanting to try again.
> 
> Getting completely plastered drunk to the point of wetting my bed (multiple times)
> 
> I’m a doctor so I’ve been trying to figure it out. Borderline or maybe split personality is all I can come up with.



Sounds like substance abuse to me.

Or substance abuse mixed with borderline personality defect. 

There's a lot of controversy about "split personality"/dissociative identity disorder which is beyond the scope of this thread, ranging from some experts adamant about it being a true disorder to other experts who believe it is a consequence of poorly delivered therapy. Nevertheless, borderline personality has a lot of overlap with D.I.D.. 
But either way, substance abuse often figures prominently in the disorder.


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> Girl is back asking for another chance. Something about pushing people away that she loves because of her divorce.
> 
> Damn I wish I didn’t like her



To be honest, it is often true that the crazy women are, shall we say, the most "intense" in the bedroom. That often makes it hard for a dude to pull himself away from her craziness. 

Don't fall into that trap, dude! Make the break! Get away from her!


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> Girl is back asking for another chance. Something about pushing people away that she loves because of her divorce.
> 
> Damn I wish I didn’t like her



Not to belabor the point, but this whole situation sounds like the makings of another Jodie Arias:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Travis_Alexander

You don't want to be found dead in your shower with a thousand stab wounds at the hand of a psycho woman.


----------



## ButtPunch

These are the red flags you cannot ignore.

I'm ok if you have a little fun riding the roller coaster but....

it will eventually crash


----------



## donesies

ButtPunch said:


> These are the red flags you cannot ignore.
> 
> I'm ok if you have a little fun riding the roller coaster but....
> 
> it will eventually crash


I’m sure you’re right, but dang...why can’t people just be normal???


----------



## ButtPunch

donesies said:


> I’m sure you’re right, but dang...why can’t people just be normal???


Who knows.....but they aren't


----------



## Elizabeth001

There are plenty of “normal” women. It appears that you are just not attracted to them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## red oak

donesies said:


> I’m sure you’re right, but dang...why can’t people just be normal???


I ask the same several times a day.....


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

skerzoid said:


> You are now inoculated to a broken heart. You will never again allow anyone to have all of you. That is the gift of infidelity. Your heart is now covered in scar tissue.


Never a truer word has been spoken. Nicely done Skerz....


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> I’m sure you’re right, but dang...why can’t people just be normal???


That raises the question - what is "normal"?

For most, "normal" means that they agree with you and feel as you do about life's turns and twists.


----------



## bandit.45

Whoah!

Wait a minute....

She pissed....PISSED... in the bed? 

And you're considering taking her back? WTF?


----------



## Elizabeth001

bandit.45 said:


> Whoah!
> 
> 
> 
> Wait a minute....
> 
> 
> 
> She pissed....PISSED... in the bed?
> 
> 
> 
> And you're considering taking her back? WTF?




IKR?!?!?!??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lostmyreligion

You need to watch this if you haven't already D






It'll answer your question.


----------



## Marc878

Look man if you take cray cray back at least make her buy her own Depends or wear training panties.

Warm piss on your back may feel good at first but it gets cold shortly after.


----------



## lostmyreligion

Marc878 said:


> Look man if you take cray cray back at least make her buy her own Depends or wear training panties.
> 
> Warm piss on your back may feel good at first but it gets cold shortly after.


Hahaha. Thanks Marc. 

And once again I'm wiping the scoffee I've snorted out of my nose off of my keyboard...


----------



## Marc878

lostmyreligion said:


> Hahaha. Thanks Marc.
> 
> And once again I'm wiping the scoffee I've snorted out of my nose off of my keyboard...


Dammit, I was hoping to get at least 3 or 4 of those. Only hooked one? 

I must be losing my touch. **** !!!!!


----------



## donesies

I know we are way off the original topic on this thread, but just thought I would provide an update on my life in general.

I did get rid of the beautiful drunk crazy b***. It was tough, but the right thing to do. 

Now I’m back on the dating circuit. Really haven’t met anyone that I’m super excited about yet, but taking my time.

Work has been hectic, but rewarding and increasingly lucrative. 

Health has been good. Workouts have been steady and consistent.

Ultimately I do really miss having someone every day. But I want to be the right person. I want it to be someone who lights me on fire. I know that kind of thing fades, but I think it’s the right thing to have upfront.


----------



## [email protected]

donesies, give yourself time. It looks like you are on the right track.


----------



## MattMatt

donesies said:


> I know we are way off the original topic on this thread, but just thought I would provide an update on my life in general.
> 
> I did get rid of the beautiful drunk crazy b***. It was tough, but the right thing to do.
> 
> Now I’m back on the dating circuit. Really haven’t met anyone that I’m super excited about yet, but taking my time.
> 
> Work has been hectic, but rewarding and increasingly lucrative.
> 
> Health has been good. Workouts have been steady and consistent.
> 
> Ultimately I do really miss having someone every day. But I want to be the right person. I want it to be someone who lights me on fire. I know that kind of thing fades, but I think it’s the right thing to have upfront.


Thanks for the update.

You are getting there.


----------



## donesies

Thanks so much, guys

So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!

Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!

You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)


----------



## Tobyboy

donesies said:


> Thanks so much, guys
> 
> So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!
> 
> Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
> 
> You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)


You mean former good friend...right?


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Where are you meeting all these trashy women? I swear, I couldn't find people with that lack of character if I tried.


----------



## jlg07

AND I hope you told your ex-good friends wife about this?


----------



## skerzoid

donsies

You actually need to stop searching for Mrs. Right. Mrs. Right will find you. Just keep having fun having fun! You seem to go into each experience with the idea of turning it into a long term relationship. A Prince, such as yourself, is going to have to kiss a lot of Lady Frogs to find a "keeper". (I would have said "Princess", but thats what you have had before).


----------



## skerzoid

jlg07 said:


> AND I hope you told your ex-good friends wife about this?


How's your "Good Friend's" wife? Maybe you should return the favor? Maybe she would appreciate some attention from the Good Doctor.>


----------



## donesies

Tobyboy said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much, guys
> 
> So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!
> 
> Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
> 
> You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)
> 
> 
> 
> You mean former good friend...right?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. FORMER good friend


----------



## donesies

jlg07 said:


> AND I hope you told your ex-good friends wife about this?


I would have except for SHE told the wife. Sent her screenshots and everything. She did it after I caught her in order to look less guilty 🤷‍♂️


----------



## donesies

Tatsuhiko said:


> Where are you meeting all these trashy women? I swear, I couldn't find people with that lack of character if I tried.


Well one was my ex-wife. Met her in high school. This other was from Tinder


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> donsies
> 
> You actually need to stop searching for Mrs. Right. Mrs. Right will find you. Just keep having fun having fun! You seem to go into each experience with the idea of turning it into a long term relationship. A Prince, such as yourself, is going to have to kiss a lot of Lady Frogs to find a "keeper". (I would have said "Princess", but thats what you have had before).


I’m honestly trying to maintain a distance and not get exclusive with any of the wrong ones. I did really want this last girl and was completely crazy about her. I saw all the red flags early on, but I ignored them because I wanted her so bad.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Donesies , you have a really high salary. Many would say opportunities for the pick of the litter.

Along with that though comes crazies gunning for you all on their best behavior. 

If someone your dating shows you early she is a booze hound run dude, just run. The sex is not worth long term. She is showing her best behavior upfront and from there it only goes down hill. Fast. Not your problem, run!. 

Good news is she was easy to drop. Bad news is your ex friend's wife now has to deal with the miserable consequences of her husbands idiot choices.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> Thanks so much, guys
> 
> So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!
> 
> Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
> 
> You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)


How did you find out?


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> Thanks so much, guys
> 
> So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!
> 
> Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
> 
> You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)


 I wonder if she pissed in his bed too?


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> I’m honestly trying to maintain a distance and not get exclusive with any of the wrong ones. I did really want this last girl and was completely crazy about her. I saw all the red flags early on, but I ignored them because I wanted her so bad.


Never, ever ignore red flags! No matter what you want at that time, it never ends well. 

Think logically and not with your........... - well, your a doctor, you can figure out which part of your anatomy leads you down the wrong path.


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Donesies , you have a really high salary. Many would say opportunities for the pick of the litter.
> 
> Along with that though comes crazies gunning for you all on their best behavior.
> 
> If someone your dating shows you early she is a booze hound run dude, just run. The sex is not worth long term. She is showing her best behavior upfront and from there it only goes down hill. Fast. Not your problem, run!.
> 
> Good news is she was easy to drop. Bad news is your ex friend's wife now has to deal with the miserable consequences of her husbands idiot choices.


It’s sort of interesting. I do feel like I have a lot of options, but then again I don’t feel like I really like the ones I have. Not sure what it takes to crack into the high caliber women that I actually want to be with. High caliber being beautiful, smart, active, and successful

I am pondering whether or not the sex was worth it in the end. It was quite honestly life-changing. I do think I got too attached, but I am slowly pulling out of it. It is so much easier than it was with my ex-wife though

Yeah I can’t feel bad for my friend. He was a real f—- idiot for doing this


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much, guys
> 
> So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!
> 
> Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
> 
> You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)
> 
> 
> 
> How did you find out?
Click to expand...

I was tipped off by a mutual friend


----------



## donesies

Rubix Cubed said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks so much, guys
> 
> So the final nail in the coffin with beautiful crazy alcohol girl? She cheated on me with my good friend, who is married with kids!
> 
> Seriously! IT HAPPENED AGAIN!
> 
> You can’t make this s#%^ up (*shaking head)
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if she pissed in his bed too?
Click to expand...

I can only hope


----------



## donesies

TDSC60 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m honestly trying to maintain a distance and not get exclusive with any of the wrong ones. I did really want this last girl and was completely crazy about her. I saw all the red flags early on, but I ignored them because I wanted her so bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Never, ever ignore red flags! No matter what you want at that time, it never ends well.
> 
> Think logically and not with your........... - well, your a doctor, you can figure out which part of your anatomy leads you down the wrong path.
Click to expand...

You aren’t referring to some part of the endocrine system are you??


----------



## skerzoid

Did she try to get back with you after you found out?


----------



## sokillme

Don't feel bad for your friend, he is a POS. 

If you think about it what is it that attracts you to this women. What is the first thing you would say about them that attracted you?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> It’s sort of interesting._ I do feel like I have a lot of options, but then again I don’t feel like I really like the ones I have. Not sure what it takes to crack into the high caliber women that I actually want to be with. High caliber being beautiful, smart, active, and successful_
> 
> I am pondering whether or not the sex was worth it in the end. It was quite honestly life-changing. I do think I got too attached, but I am slowly pulling out of it. It is so much easier than it was with my ex-wife though
> 
> Yeah I can’t feel bad for my friend. He was a real f—- idiot for doing this


If you are not feeling you really 'like' what is around you save yourself grief by simply not getting seriously involved with them and simply wait. 

As far as 'cracking' into the inner circle of ' high caliber women', just be yourself and be available by staying away from sexy drunk crazies who take up your time and effectively keep you off the market.

My point is the planet is full of beautiful, smart, active, successful single women. Just take your time an don't settle for anyone who you don't really like.


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> You aren’t referring to some part of the endocrine system are you??


Hmmm, MD humor. Yer killin' me Doc!!:laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## Rubix Cubed

donesies said:


> You aren’t referring to some part of the endocrine system are you??


"Quit thinking with your thyroid."


----------



## BigbadBootyDaddy

You’ve come long way. Don’t rush it. 

My story was reversed. I was married to an a MD. I followed her through internship, Two residencies and a Fellowship. As soon as she became an attending she wanted a Legal Seperation (how convenient). I signed the LS but then filed a D. Forgot to mention, she cheated on me. Lost track after 5 guys. 

While I don’t promote MGTOW, but I did it for 2 years post D. Focused on me, no distractions. Once you realize you don’t need women then all the fun begins. Wow, were the dates fun. I called out most of the women on their BS. Guess what? some of them came back crawling because I was the first one to stand up to them. 

Remember, all single women have guys in the friends zone. Don’t be that guy. You’re the prize. Let them earn your time. 

Don’t fall for the “Happy wife, happy life” BS.


----------



## TDSC60

donesies said:


> You aren’t referring to some part of the endocrine system are you??


I was thinking more along the lines of the reproductive system - as in the physical structure of the anatomy that "points" in the direction you want to proceed.


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> Did she try to get back with you after you found out?


Yes she did


----------



## donesies

sokillme said:


> Don't feel bad for your friend, he is a POS.
> 
> If you think about it what is it that attracts you to this women. What is the first thing you would say about them that attracted you?


Their looks. Period. It seems to be a weakness of mine


----------



## donesies

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s sort of interesting._ I do feel like I have a lot of options, but then again I don’t feel like I really like the ones I have. Not sure what it takes to crack into the high caliber women that I actually want to be with. High caliber being beautiful, smart, active, and successful_
> 
> I am pondering whether or not the sex was worth it in the end. It was quite honestly life-changing. I do think I got too attached, but I am slowly pulling out of it. It is so much easier than it was with my ex-wife though
> 
> Yeah I can’t feel bad for my friend. He was a real f—- idiot for doing this
> 
> 
> 
> If you are not feeling you really 'like' what is around you save yourself grief by simply not getting seriously involved with them and simply wait.
> 
> As far as 'cracking' into the inner circle of ' high caliber women', just be yourself and be available by staying away from sexy drunk crazies who take up your time and effectively keep you off the market.
> 
> My point is the planet is full of beautiful, smart, active, successful single women. Just take your time an don't settle for anyone who you don't really like.
Click to expand...

I know. It’s just hard to go to bed alone when you don’t have to


----------



## donesies

Rubix Cubed said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren’t referring to some part of the endocrine system are you??
> 
> 
> 
> "Quit thinking with your thyroid."
Click to expand...

My adrenals have gotten me into trouble multiple times


----------



## StillSearching

donesies said:


> I know. It’s just hard to go to bed alone when you don’t have to


Yup!
I'm weak to it too...


----------



## donesies

TDSC60 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren’t referring to some part of the endocrine system are you??
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking more along the lines of the reproductive system - as in the physical structure of the anatomy that "points" in the direction you want to proceed.
Click to expand...

Eye balls are not part of the reproductive system


----------



## donesies

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> You’ve come long way. Don’t rush it.
> 
> My story was reversed. I was married to an a MD. I followed her through internship, Two residencies and a Fellowship. As soon as she became an attending she wanted a Legal Seperation (how convenient). I signed the LS but then filed a D. Forgot to mention, she cheated on me. Lost track after 5 guys.
> 
> While I don’t promote MGTOW, but I did it for 2 years post D. Focused on me, no distractions. Once you realize you don’t need women then all the fun begins. Wow, were the dates fun. I called out most of the women on their BS. Guess what? some of them came back crawling because I was the first one to stand up to them.
> 
> Remember, all single women have guys in the friends zone. Don’t be that guy. You’re the prize. Let them earn your time.
> 
> Don’t fall for the “Happy wife, happy life” BS.


I think I’ve become fairly decent at the dating game, but this girl was really really amazing. I loved her so much. I enabled her and allowed her to hurt me in the most personal of ways. I invited her horrible behavior and I guess in that I have no one to blame but myself.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

donesies said:


> I think I’ve become fairly decent at the dating game, but this girl was really really amazing. I loved her so much. I enabled her and allowed her to hurt me in the most personal of ways. I invited her horrible behavior and I guess in that I have no one to blame but myself.


Lesson learned.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Their looks. Period. It seems to be a weakness of mine


Problem source identified.


----------



## donesies

Well it’s been a year since post #1. What a ride. Thank you all guys! 

Regardless of the frustration with the most recent gf, I still have a very bright future and I could not have done this without you!


----------



## skerzoid

donesies said:


> Well it’s been a year since post #1. What a ride. Thank you all guys!
> 
> Regardless of the frustration with the most recent gf, I still have a very bright future and I could not have done this without you!


:grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:


----------



## skerzoid

donesies:

How about an update on your life and how it's going?


----------



## Marc878

Relationships need to be balanced. If you're putting more into one than you're getting back take a step back and evaluate.


----------



## kalimata

S: Man seeks help because wife is cheating on him. Worried she may leave him, she is beautiful. Fat boy as WW’s boyfriend irks him to no end. 

O:
HEENT wnl 
MSE AOx3 
CV RRR but broken heart
Pulm clear no crackles
Abd soft NT ND BS normal
Ext pulses nl
Neur reflexes nl. Growing a spine. 

A: Fit, athletic and good looking young man. High income and great long term potential. Busted up inside, but will heal with time. 

P: 
1) stat consult to /r/theredpill
2) reading assignment No More Mr Nice Guy
3) sit back and watch as he recovers and slays some *****.


----------



## skerzoid

kalimata said:


> S: Man seeks help because wife is cheating on him. Worried she may leave him, she is beautiful. Fat boy as WW’s boyfriend irks him to no end.
> 
> O:
> HEENT wnl
> MSE AOx3
> CV RRR but broken heart
> Pulm clear no crackles
> Abd soft NT ND BS normal
> Ext pulses nl
> Neur reflexes nl. Growing a spine.
> 
> A: Fit, athletic and good looking young man. High income and great long term potential. Busted up inside, but will heal with time.
> 
> P:
> 1) stat consult to /r/theredpill
> 2) reading assignment No More Mr Nice Guy
> 3) sit back and watch as he recovers and slays some *****.


WTF?


----------



## kalimata

skerzoid said:


> WTF?




Inside joke. Google SOAP note.


----------



## notmyjamie

skerzoid said:


> WTF?


You have to work in medicine to get it. It’s one way to write out your patient notes. S: subjective O: objective, A: assessment P: plan. I thought it was clever but I write out these types of notes a lot.


----------



## donesies

Back because I’m in a little bit of a funk and wanting to vent/discuss....having to decide between women

Girl 1: Beautiful. My age. Uplifting and social. Happy. Local. Two kids, 6 and 8, who I like but can be exhausting (I’m not super used to kids). Physically - sex hasn’t been great.

Girl 2: Beautiful. 10 years younger. No kids. Very religious (I’m not). Stoic as opposed to happy. Lives 90 minutes away. Gets occasionally very emotional/moody (partially I believe this is because I haven’t been committal). Amazing physical chemistry.

Was casually dating both and both got to a point where they told me they loved me. 

Here’s the thing: about a month ago, I let Girl 2 go for Girl 1 - mainly because Girl 2 was sending me these long messages making me feel bad for now writing her enough and not giving her enough attention and making her feel like she wasn’t a priority. She was - but work got particularly hectic.

Girl 2 now has a new guy and it’s really upsetting me. We are friends on social media so I see these gushing posts. 

I feel like I’ve made the wrong decision. I haven’t been able to sleep or eat - it just sucks. Granted Girl 1 posts all these pics with me and so Girl 2 may feel the same way. I don’t know.

A month ago, Girl 2 was telling me she loved me so I feel like I could reach out and maybe reverse course, but I don’t want to ruin her good thing if she’s happy and I’m not even sure what I want.

Thoughts? The dating world can be rough...


----------



## manwithnoname

donesies said:


> Back because I’m in a little bit of a funk and wanting to vent/discuss....having to decide between women
> 
> Girl 1: Beautiful. My age. Uplifting and social. Happy. Local. Two kids, 6 and 8, who I like but can be exhausting (I’m not super used to kids). Physically - sex hasn’t been great.
> 
> Girl 2: Beautiful. 10 years younger. No kids. Very religious (I’m not). Stoic as opposed to happy. Lives 90 minutes away. Gets occasionally very emotional/moody (partially I believe this is because I haven’t been committal). Amazing physical chemistry.
> 
> Was casually dating both and both got to a point where they told me they loved me.
> 
> Here’s the thing: about a month ago, I let Girl 2 go for Girl 1 - mainly because Girl 2 was sending me these long messages making me feel bad for now writing her enough and not giving her enough attention and making her feel like she wasn’t a priority. She was - but work got particularly hectic.
> 
> Girl 2 now has a new guy and it’s really upsetting me. We are friends on social media so I see these gushing posts.
> 
> I feel like I’ve made the wrong decision. I haven’t been able to sleep or eat - it just sucks. Granted Girl 1 posts all these pics with me and so Girl 2 may feel the same way. I don’t know.
> 
> A month ago, Girl 2 was telling me she loved me so I feel like I could reach out and maybe reverse course, but I don’t want to ruin her good thing if she’s happy and I’m not even sure what I want.
> 
> Thoughts? The dating world can be rough...


Both have up sides and down sides, difficult decision. Personally I would go with Girl 1 because I am not religious and don't like the emotional drama type. The only down side to Girl 1 is possibly the kids, and the mediocre sex, which may or may not be fixed depending on what makes it "not great."


----------



## Lila

donesies said:


> Back because I’m in a little bit of a funk and wanting to vent/discuss....having to decide between women
> 
> Girl 1: Beautiful. My age. Uplifting and social. Happy. Local. Two kids, 6 and 8, who I like but can be exhausting (I’m not super used to kids). Physically - sex hasn’t been great.
> 
> Girl 2: Beautiful. 10 years younger. No kids. Very religious (I’m not). Stoic as opposed to happy. Lives 90 minutes away. Gets occasionally very emotional/moody (partially I believe this is because I haven’t been committal). Amazing physical chemistry.
> 
> Was casually dating both and both got to a point where they told me they loved me.
> 
> Here’s the thing: about a month ago, I let Girl 2 go for Girl 1 - mainly because Girl 2 was sending me these long messages making me feel bad for now writing her enough and not giving her enough attention and making her feel like she wasn’t a priority. She was - but work got particularly hectic.
> 
> Girl 2 now has a new guy and it’s really upsetting me. We are friends on social media so I see these gushing posts.
> 
> I feel like I’ve made the wrong decision. I haven’t been able to sleep or eat - it just sucks. Granted Girl 1 posts all these pics with me and so Girl 2 may feel the same way. I don’t know.
> 
> A month ago, Girl 2 was telling me she loved me so I feel like I could reach out and maybe reverse course, but I don’t want to ruin her good thing if she’s happy and I’m not even sure what I want.
> 
> Thoughts? The dating world can be rough...


Let them both go. They both deserve a man who has integrity and is able to stand by his decisions.


----------



## manwithnoname

Lila said:


> Let them both go. They both deserve a man who has integrity and is able to stand by his decisions.


That's a little harsh, considering he hasn't made a decision to stand by yet...


----------



## Lostinthought61

No it is not harsh because clearly there are qualities he likes in both girls, yet both have things that he would have to settle with.....kids with one and attitude with the other as well as distance. In my opinion if you really stood back neither would be a great candidate in the long run...now if you want a girlfriend for the moment then stay with gf1 but long run I would try finding someone that has the best of both. Remember what you bring to the table....everyone has baggage but some have less.


----------



## Lila

manwithnoname said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let them both go. They both deserve a man who has integrity and is able to stand by his decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a little harsh, considering he hasn't made a decision to stand by yet...
Click to expand...

Why do you say that?

Yes he made a decision. 



> Here’s the thing: about a month ago, I let Girl 2 go for Girl 1


 He chose girl 1. Girl 2 was"let go" and has moved on to someone else. Now he wants to dump girl 1 (the woman he chose) and "reach out" to girl 2 who he dumped for girl 1. He wants his cake and to eat it too.


----------



## colingrant

donesies said:


> Back because I’m in a little bit of a funk and wanting to vent/discuss....having to decide between women
> 
> Girl 1: Beautiful. My age. Uplifting and social. Happy. Local. Two kids, 6 and 8, who I like but can be exhausting (I’m not super used to kids). Physically - sex hasn’t been great.
> 
> Girl 2: Beautiful. 10 years younger. No kids. Very religious (I’m not). Stoic as opposed to happy. Lives 90 minutes away. Gets occasionally very emotional/moody (partially I believe this is because I haven’t been committal). Amazing physical chemistry.
> 
> Was casually dating both and both got to a point where they told me they loved me.
> 
> Here’s the thing: about a month ago, I let Girl 2 go for Girl 1 - mainly because Girl 2 was sending me these long messages making me feel bad for now writing her enough and not giving her enough attention and making her feel like she wasn’t a priority. She was - but work got particularly hectic.
> 
> Girl 2 now has a new guy and it’s really upsetting me. We are friends on social media so I see these gushing posts.
> 
> I feel like I’ve made the wrong decision. I haven’t been able to sleep or eat - it just sucks. Granted Girl 1 posts all these pics with me and so Girl 2 may feel the same way. I don’t know.
> 
> A month ago, Girl 2 was telling me she loved me so I feel like I could reach out and maybe reverse course, but I don’t want to ruin her good thing if she’s happy and I’m not even sure what I want.
> 
> Thoughts? The dating world can be rough...


Appreciate when a blessing has been bestowed upon you. You may have been given one here. If I recall, your xwife had issues related to lack of attention, etc. YOU'RE A DOCTOR!!!!!!!!! If I recall. You're going to have to find someone who's not high maintenance and insecure to the point of you having to validate their existence, as your profession may not allow you to do so. Why fret over a woman (#2) who's not shown supportive, strong independent personal traits you'll need in a future partner. Again your profession is one that demands this. 

I was very adamant about this before I got married. When dating I paid extremely close attention to women who needed reassurances, constant compliments and attention. Those who did, were not candidates for me moving forward, as I was starting a business and I knew what commitment level was needed to succeed, and whoever was going to be with me would need to be on board. You are who you are. Make no excuses for yourself in this area.


----------



## Openminded

Neither. 

Keep looking.


----------



## dadstartingover

The overall theme of your post: "Man... I really NEED a woman, and these are the two latest candidates that give me a great deal of anxiety. Whatever shall I do?" 

Dude... you are NOT in the right mindset to be dating around. You're falling for anything that's cute and smiles at you. That's not a good thing. Not at all. You'll end up right back where you were before, or worse.

The bitter truth: Finding THE ONE "Real Love" of your life is damn near impossible. The vast majority of women you date will fall way short of earning the spot to be your one gal. You have to learn to go with the flow, enjoy your time, and not make dating a top priority in your life. If you place so much importance on girl #1, #2, #3, #4... you'll quite literally go crazy.


----------



## ButtPunch

You'll know for sure when the right one comes along


----------



## PreRaph

Lila said:


> Let them both go. They both deserve a man who has integrity and is able to stand by his decisions.


I really don't think he's ready for that. He seems to be enjoying the dating scene and the good sex, and doesn't want to commit to a woman right now. Nothing wrong with that. As long as he's honest about it, at least with himself.


----------



## donesies

Appreciate all the responses - even the harsh ones. Girl 1 is great, but I don’t think she’s quite right, but I also think that I would be upset if I let her go. She has a wonderful temperament and we have a ton in common. The last couple days, she recognizes that I’m in this funk and she wants to know why. I really needed some friends to talk through it with, but I don’t have my close friends near me right now. I appreciate you guys a ton. You got me through the most difficult time in my life


----------



## Lila

PreRaph said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let them both go. They both deserve a man who has integrity and is able to stand by his decisions.
> 
> 
> 
> I really don't think he's ready for that. He seems to be enjoying the dating scene and the good sex, and doesn't want to commit to a woman right now. Nothing wrong with that. As long as he's honest about it, at least with himself.
Click to expand...

I agree that he doesn't seem ready to date with the intention of settling down with one specific person but I do think he should be honest about it with himself AS WELL AS with the women he dates. As long as he's upfront about his intentions, and is okay when the women he dates are dating others, then all is good.


----------



## Lila

donesies said:


> Appreciate all the responses - even the harsh ones. Girl 1 is great, *but I don’t think she’s quite right*, but I also think that I would be upset if I let her go. She has a wonderful temperament and we have a ton in common. The last couple days, she recognizes that I’m in this funk and she wants to know why. I really needed some friends to talk through it with, but I don’t have my close friends near me right now. I appreciate you guys a ton. You got me through the most difficult time in my life


If Girl 1 is not the right girl, then you need to make sure that you communicate with her your intentions of keeping this relationship casual. 

Please do not falsely lead this woman on. She's telling you she loves you but you are thinking "she's not right" but "she's good enough for right now until something better comes along". Imagine if someone did this to you. How would it make you feel knowing that you're a place holder until something better comes along?


----------



## donesies

Lila said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate all the responses - even the harsh ones. Girl 1 is great, *but I don’t think she’s quite right*, but I also think that I would be upset if I let her go. She has a wonderful temperament and we have a ton in common. The last couple days, she recognizes that I’m in this funk and she wants to know why. I really needed some friends to talk through it with, but I don’t have my close friends near me right now. I appreciate you guys a ton. You got me through the most difficult time in my life
> 
> 
> 
> If Girl 1 is not the right girl, then you need to make sure that you communicate with her your intentions of keeping this relationship casual.
> 
> Please do not falsely lead this woman on. She's telling you she loves you but you are thinking "she's not right" but "she's good enough for right now until something better comes along". Imagine if someone did this to you. How would it make you feel knowing that you're a place holder until something better comes along?
Click to expand...

I wouldn’t do that, especially with kids involved


----------



## BigbadBootyDaddy

Drop all of them. Keep enjoying your freedom. Not a nock against single moms, but those relationships are difficult. You’re always #2,#3. 

Maybe it’s time to get off social media.


----------



## donesies

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> Drop all of them. Keep enjoying your freedom. Not a nock against single moms, but those relationships are difficult. You’re always #2,#3.
> 
> Maybe it’s time to get off social media.


Getting off SM not really an option for me given my medical practice

Yes I have a lot to think about


----------



## Thor

I think you're falling into a trap.

Neither woman is long term marriage material. So, you are dating for the short term enjoyment. This means that either of the 2 would be ok. Tough choices where it is difficult to declare a clear winner means that both options are acceptable, just different. But in the dating world you can't keep both. You have to let one of them go, truly let them go. Even if she is a good person and you like much about her, you can't keep her and the other one at the same time.

Once you let one go, you really can't go back to her and expect it to be the same or to last very long. Maybe you made a mistake letting her go, but you can't have her back now.

If you're thinking maybe someday having a permanent relationship then the equation is a bit different. Each of these 2 women are maybe 90% great, yet 10% NO in terms of marriage. You're looking for a 100% YES. Even a 95% YES isn't good enough for marriage, though she would be a great person.

Too many people try to force fit someone who isn't quite 100% YES, rationalizing that they are a great person with all kinds of positive attributes. The problem isn't that they are a bad person, just that they aren't the right fit for you.

Either keep looking for a better match by letting both of these women go, or keep the one you have while making it clear you are only in it for the short term enjoyment. Be cautious that she may have bigger plans than you do.


----------



## bandit.45

donesies said:


> Appreciate all the responses - even the harsh ones. Girl 1 is great, but I don’t think she’s quite right, but I also think that I would be upset if I let her go. She has a wonderful temperament and we have a ton in common. The last couple days, she recognizes that I’m in this funk and she wants to know why. I really needed some friends to talk through it with, but I don’t have my close friends near me right now. I appreciate you guys a ton. You got me through the most difficult time in my life


Polygamy is a beotch isn't it? 

Dude why not just admit you don't want to lose G1 because of the hot sex? You are obviously not ready to commit to her or to anyone. Jets let her go. Find a new FWB, and this time set your expectations with the new one up front. Tell her you are recently divorced and you have no intention whatsoever of settling down or even contemplating marrying any time soon. If it is clear she is on the husband hunt, tell her as nicely as you can "thank you for the lovely dinner, now move along." 

And as fun as it is, stop the repeat dating with multiple women. Unless it is one-night-stands, don't go steady with more than one gal at a time. I know its great for the ego, but why put yourself in that position? It's stupid. You know better.


----------



## BigbadBootyDaddy

You just realized one thing about G2. You’re disposable. She loves you, oh wait, on to the next guy. 

She’s not yours, it’s just your turn.


----------



## Stormguy2018

Best of luck.


----------



## manwithnoname

Lila said:


> Why do you say that?
> 
> Yes he made a decision.
> 
> 
> 
> He chose girl 1. Girl 2 was"let go" and has moved on to someone else. Now he wants to dump girl 1 (the woman he chose) and "reach out" to girl 2 who he dumped for girl 1. He wants his cake and to eat it too.


Yes, you are correct. It was early and I was still asleep apparently. :sleeping:


----------



## honcho

donesies said:


> Back because I’m in a little bit of a funk and wanting to vent/discuss....having to decide between women
> 
> Girl 1: Beautiful. My age. Uplifting and social. Happy. Local. Two kids, 6 and 8, who I like but can be exhausting (I’m not super used to kids). Physically - sex hasn’t been great.
> 
> Girl 2: Beautiful. 10 years younger. No kids. Very religious (I’m not). Stoic as opposed to happy. Lives 90 minutes away. Gets occasionally very emotional/moody (partially I believe this is because I haven’t been committal). Amazing physical chemistry.
> 
> Was casually dating both and both got to a point where they told me they loved me.
> 
> Here’s the thing: about a month ago, I let Girl 2 go for Girl 1 - mainly because Girl 2 was sending me these long messages making me feel bad for now writing her enough and not giving her enough attention and making her feel like she wasn’t a priority. She was - but work got particularly hectic.
> 
> Girl 2 now has a new guy and it’s really upsetting me. We are friends on social media so I see these gushing posts.
> 
> I feel like I’ve made the wrong decision. I haven’t been able to sleep or eat - it just sucks. Granted Girl 1 posts all these pics with me and so Girl 2 may feel the same way. I don’t know.
> 
> A month ago, Girl 2 was telling me she loved me so I feel like I could reach out and maybe reverse course, but I don’t want to ruin her good thing if she’s happy and I’m not even sure what I want.
> 
> Thoughts? The dating world can be rough...


Are you wanting g2 back because she moved on so easily and has a new guy and you think you missed something? She's younger, religious and lives a distance from you. Each on its own can be an issue that can be overcome, together long term your gonna have issues......and you dumped her already. You've made the decision on g2. 

G1 your already saying the sex isn't great. 

Neither is the correct decision for you


----------



## lovelygirl

@donesies why do I feel your behaviour with these 2 girls is very teenage-ish?? 

Sounds like you're trying to make up for the lost time while you were married.


----------



## MyRevelation

lovelygirl said:


> @donesies why do I feel your behaviour with these 2 girls is very teenage-ish??
> 
> Sounds like you're trying to make up for the lost time while you were married.


OP’s picker has not been recalibrated.

He still makes choices on the shallowest of standards.


----------



## skerzoid

Geez people!

The Good Doctor comes for advice and we dump a load negativity on him; "the shallowest of standards", "your behavior with these 2 girls is very teenage-ish", "he wants his cake and eat it too".

He comes for advice and you make him out to be somebody uncaring and unworthy.

I think he's doing just fine. 

Doc, I kind of go with the future right now. Both ladies (not girls as some are calling them) are grown ups and understand the dating game.

You are young, attractive, rich, and in great shape. Enjoy your freedom while you got it. The world's your oyster. You made no promises or vows. It may be that your schedule may not allow for more than casual relationships right now.


----------



## donesies

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> You just realized one thing about G2. You’re disposable. She loves you, oh wait, on to the next guy.
> 
> She’s not yours, it’s just your turn.


Lol. Yup


----------



## donesies

Thanks again guys. I am curious why some people say I have shallow standards? It isn’t just about looks anymore if that’s what you mean. I explained that and listed several qualities of each


----------



## lovelygirl

donesies said:


> I’m honestly trying to maintain a distance and not get exclusive with any of the wrong ones. I did really want this last girl and was completely crazy about her. I saw all the red flags early on, but I ignored them because I wanted her so bad.


What specific red flags did you notice about her?


----------



## lovelygirl

skerzoid said:


> :grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79DijItQXMM


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

OMG that was funneh!!!!


----------



## Decorum

G2 would suck out your soul, and leave you an empty shell.
Just my opi.


----------



## donesies

Wanted to ask you guys another quick question: 

Random person who knows my situation reached out to me and told me they know who OM is banging now (not my XW).

Would you share this information with his wife? I still have those lines of communication available to me, but it doesn’t seem like it’s my business anymore.


----------



## Marc878

Nope let her figure it out. It's none of your business anymore.


----------



## syhoybenden

donesies said:


> Random person who knows my situation reached out to me and told me they know who OM is banging now (not my XW).
> 
> Would you share this information with his wife? I still have those lines of communication available to me, but it doesn’t seem like it’s my business anymore.


I would.

Maybe his wife can pull a "Lorena Bobbitt" on him some night.


----------



## Tex X

I wouldn't. Not your circus anymore.


----------



## Yeswecan

donesies said:


> Wanted to ask you guys another quick question:
> 
> Random person who knows my situation reached out to me and told me they know who OM is banging now (not my XW).
> 
> Would you share this information with his wife? I still have those lines of communication available to me, but it doesn’t seem like it’s my business anymore.


Not your circus. Not your monkeys.


----------



## Tilted 1

Nope, this is KARMA!!! just pop some popcorn and enjoy the show.


----------



## alte Dame

I would be sorely tempted to pass the info on anonymously and would likely do it. She's married to a complete skunk and loser. Maybe she will eventually figure out that she needs to cut her losses. He deserves some real karma.


----------



## re16

Send an anonymous message to her somehow.


----------



## Marduk

I’d laugh, pour myself a whiskey that night, and toast the universe for demonstrating Karma.


----------



## Marc878

The bigger question is why are you still hung up on her?

You want to move on or not?


----------



## Malaise

alte Dame said:


> I would be sorely tempted to pass the info on anonymously and would likely do it. She's married to a complete skunk and loser. Maybe she will eventually figure out that she needs to cut her losses. He deserves some real karma.


It would be difficult for me to pass up any opportunity to mess with his life.


----------



## ButtPunch

I would just as a courtesy to his betrayed wife.


----------



## oldtruck

ButtPunch said:


> I would just as a courtesy to his betrayed wife.


I would expose the OMW again, and the newest BH


----------



## TAMAT

Yes I would, sometimes the karma bus needs a driver.

It's the right thing to do so just do it.

More generally did you expose the OM to everyone in his life that matters, and professionally as well.

Also drop a dime on whoever the SO of his current OW is. Perhaps the OWH can do some of your work for you.


----------



## donesies

Marc878 said:


> The bigger question is why are you still hung up on her?
> 
> You want to move on or not?


FAR from it, my friend

What makes you think that?


----------



## donesies

TAMAT said:


> Yes I would, sometimes the karma bus needs a driver.
> 
> It's the right thing to do so just do it.
> 
> More generally did you expose the OM to everyone in his life that matters, and professionally as well.
> 
> Also drop a dime on whoever the SO of his current OW is. Perhaps the OWH can do some of your work for you.


Yes it got around. That’s how this person knew to contact me about this


----------



## Marc878

donesies said:


> FAR from it, my friend
> 
> What makes you think that?


You're still staying up on her. I'd let her figure it out. Just like you did.


----------



## SunCMars

donesies said:


> Wanted to ask you guys another quick question:
> 
> Random person who knows my situation reached out to me and told me they know who OM is banging now (not my XW).
> 
> *Would you share this information with his wife?* I still have those lines of communication available to me, but it doesn’t seem like it’s my business anymore.


Well....

It would depend on who was driving my bus, who is owning my personality, at the moment.

Um, it better not be one of the Martians. 



[?]-


----------



## lucy999

I vote no. I understand this info fell in your lap. It's not like you're keeping tabs on him. And yes, it would be nothing short of delicious to force some justice and for you to have a hand in it. But if this info continues to fall in your lap, will you continue to be the Infidelity Caped Crusader? When would you call it good?


----------



## donesies

Marc878 said:


> donesies said:
> 
> 
> 
> FAR from it, my friend
> 
> What makes you think that?
> 
> 
> 
> You're still staying up on her. I'd let her figure it out. Just like you did.
Click to expand...

It’s as if a news article popped up in front of me. I’ve given her about as much thought as rearranging my sock drawer


----------



## skerzoid

How goes the struggle Donesies?


----------



## donesies

skerzoid said:


> How goes the struggle Donesies?


Crazy that it’s been over 3 years!

Life has taken some unexpected turns. I changed jobs, my financial situation has improved considerably, I moved out of the area.

I am still dating girl 1. She is truly an amazing woman. I don’t intend to marry her and I have told her that, but she seems OK with just being with me.

Truthfully I still do sometimes miss XW (well, who she used to be), but in a nostalgic way - sort of like how you miss someone who passed away.

Overall I’m happy. Things are not perfect, but they are good


----------



## Evinrude58

just saw this is an old thread


----------



## Sfort

donesies said:


> Overall I’m happy. Things are not perfect, but they are good


Life will never be perfect. Otherwise, your post is not very convincing. Don't give up and settle for less than you want.


----------



## Wolfman1968

donesies said:


> Crazy that it’s been over 3 years!
> 
> Life has taken some unexpected turns. I changed jobs, my financial situation has improved considerably, I moved out of the area.
> 
> I am still dating girl 1. She is truly an amazing woman. I don’t intend to marry her and I have told her that, but she seems OK with just being with me.
> 
> Truthfully I still do sometimes miss XW (well, who she used to be), but in a nostalgic way - sort of like how you miss someone who passed away.
> 
> Overall I’m happy. Things are not perfect, but they are good


Donesies, your story was so inspiring, I really wish you would be able to hang around and offer others insight based on your experiences. If posters on this forum helped you, maybe you can pay it forward?


----------



## jparistotle

donesies said:


> Crazy that it’s been over 3 years!
> 
> Life has taken some unexpected turns. I changed jobs, my financial situation has improved considerably, I moved out of the area.
> 
> I am still dating girl 1. She is truly an amazing woman. I don’t intend to marry her and I have told her that, but she seems OK with just being with me.
> 
> Truthfully I still do sometimes miss XW (well, who she used to be), but in a nostalgic way - sort of like how you miss someone who passed away.
> 
> Overall I’m happy. Things are not perfect, but they are good


By the way what ever happened to your Ex wife. Has her life turned out like she planned? Are you still paying her?


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## Marc878

Sounds like you’re doing ok. The important thing is you haven’t jumped into another bad situation. Everyone experiences nostalgia. I wouldn’t dwell on it. Sounds like you still have your x on a pedestal of some sort. Time and zero contact will cure that.


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## MattMatt

So pleased that things are going well for you, @donesies


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## skerzoid

donesies

I am glad you are enjoying your life. I hope the Covid crisis didn't gum up the works too much.


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## Asterix

Looks like Dr. Donesies snagged himself G1 before Covid. And hopefully the kids are not too much of a hassle for him. 

I just went through the thread. I'm happy to read that Dr. Donesies is in a much better place and the xww just a distant dot in the rear-view-mirror.


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## donesies

Wolfman1968 said:


> Donesies, your story was so inspiring, I really wish you would be able to hang around and offer others insight based on your experiences. If posters on this forum helped you, maybe you can pay it forward?


Absolutely. It’s the least I can do


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## donesies

jparistotle said:


> By the way what ever happened to your Ex wife. Has her life turned out like she planned? Are you still paying her?


I have no clue how she’s doing. Good I hope. She remarried and I don’t pay her anything.


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## donesies

Asterix said:


> Looks like Dr. Donesies snagged himself G1 before Covid. And hopefully the kids are not too much of a hassle for him.
> 
> I just went through the thread. I'm happy to read that Dr. Donesies is in a much better place and the xww just a distant dot in the rear-view-mirror.


Yes I’m with G1 and she’s great


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## Lostinthought61

donesies said:


> Yes I’m with G1 and she’s great


what ever happen to G2


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## Asterix

donesies said:


> Yes I’m with G1 and she’s great


Donsies, I'm happy to hear that you are still with G1 and that you are doing great. That's the least you deserve after going through all that ordeal spanning many years. I'm happy for you.


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