# How do you keep from despising your spouse



## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

I am not leaving my marriage for some various good reasons and want to live in peace. It is very hard to do. 

My dh is the mushy type wanting tons of i love you's at the end of every text or sulks and goodbye hugs or gets whiny but sex is a few times a year IF that and not very good when it does happen (yes, I've tried to 'spice it up' but it just isn't very good with him, I guess it is an emotional disconnect). 5 minutes into it he is asking 'what else can i do' which is code for him for hurry up and get done.

How do you live in peace with someone who will not have a normal marital relationship with you? I was thinking I just think of him as a roomate that is here to help with bills, and the practical stuff of life, and the kids because those things do have merit but then he wants all this mushy stuff which at this point i am sick of in the absence of a healthy (or at least not dead) sex life.

I am done talking to him about it does no good, that is the only form of foreplay we have. Me complaining,him improving for maybe a couple weeks and then not even back to square one but worse than ever each time.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

It's hard to be intimate with somebody you "despise" or "detest"

Is he too needy? 

What is your idea of a peaceful marriage? 

And what is your idea of good sex in marriage? 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Almost sounds like gender reversal in your scenario, he wants more emotional intimacy you want more physcial intimacy.
You talk about meeting his needs with a of derision so I assume you are not meeting his needs for emotional intimacy. IMO when we meet our spouses needs in many cases our needs will be met. You cannot have a good physical intimacy if the emotional intimacy is not there (many females attest to this).

Is there something more, do you love your H?
Are you sexually attracted to him?
Does he have any childhood trauma that makes him too needy?


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

You should really keep to one thread.
Marriage counseling if you truly have to stay like you stated in your other thread.


Sent from my iPhone


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## jarhed (Nov 11, 2012)

Perspective: Before you just write him off try this:

He craves verbal affirmation from you and you crave physical. The next time he sends you an affectionate or "sweet" text, return it in like. THEN send him a text telling him that you miss him so much you want to show your love for him sexually when he gets home. Get his commitment via text and follow through with it. 

He gets his need met and you get your's.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

perspective2 said:


> I am not leaving my marriage for some various good reasons and want to live in peace. It is very hard to do.


Here's the thing milady, you don't keep from despising your old man; you already despise your old man. And its virtually impossible you're going to turn around. Since leaving your marriage is not on the table, you're pretty much out of option in keep a traditional marriage.
It really easy to understand, and is perfectly normal, that you feel the way you do about him. What woman wouldn't feel that way about a needy, whinny, weak babyman that's also a piss poor lover? The truth is he doesn't give a sh1t about your feeling and needs. His agenda is to keep his own cup filled. (and apparently it doesn't take much to fill his cup from a sexual perspective) Face it, you married a looser in the love making department and it ain't gonna get no better.
If you ain't going to leave this dweeb and find you a man that's at least your equal, all you can do is put up with what you're getting or find you someone on the side to take care of what he can't do.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

perspective2 said:


> I've tried to 'spice it up' but it just isn't very good with him, I guess it is an emotional disconnect. 5 minutes into it he is asking 'what else can i do' which is code for him for hurry up and get done.


Sometimes sexuality needs to be selfish in order for things to progress in the bedroom. Odds are you are trying to please your husband instead of pleasing yourself. This will not work if he already has anxiety about trying to please you. Instead you should focus on what things please you. When your husband asks you 'what else can I do' you should show him exactly what it is YOU want and let yourself enjoy it. What you will find is that pleasing yourself is actually how you will please your husband. He will see you happy, and then he will begin to respond to that and enjoy the moment with you as well. 

While that is a sexual example, our sexuality tends to amplify everything else going on in real life. Odds are you are the same with meals. You try to find something that pleases him, only to get a so so response and you yourself end up eating something that would not be exactly what you would have chosen for yourself. Neither of you are happy with the meal, and you resent him for not being able to enjoy the meal you chose for the sole purpose of making him happy. Next time think of something YOU want to eat and chose that as your next meal. Share that with him and show him how happy it makes you. Odds are we will learn to enjoy the same meal simply because he enjoys seeing you happy eating it. 

Hope that helps, 
Badsanta


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

VladDracul said:


> If you ain't going to leave this dweeb and find you a man that's at least your equal, all you can do is put up with what you're getting or find you someone on the side to take care of what he can't do.


I assume this was said sarcastically?

Cheating is despicable whatever the justification. If you resent and despise your husband for being pathetic you should NOT do something TRULY DESPICABLE like cheating.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

oddly enough you might read MMSLP in my signature below. Its actually for men with the same problem. However you might break new ground.

I suggest reading it, see if following the plan works. If it doesn't work give it to him to read with a note that says "man up"


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Maybe he needs to be submissive. yuk. Look up how to be a dominate. You can buy whips at any horse supply tack shop.

For every mushy thing he demands give him a swat on top of it.

Read up on Pavlov's conditioned response. I'm sure he can be trained properly.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

perspective2 said:


> I am not leaving my marriage for some various good reasons and want to live in peace. It is very hard to do.
> 
> My dh is the mushy type wanting tons of i love you's at the end of every text or sulks and goodbye hugs or gets whiny but sex is a few times a year IF that and not very good when it does happen (yes, I've tried to 'spice it up' but it just isn't very good with him, I guess it is an emotional disconnect). 5 minutes into it he is asking 'what else can i do' which is code for him for hurry up and get done.
> 
> ...


Here is some fresh advice for you. You have to learn how to manage his attempts to sway you with his emotions. You see, we tend to have very specific views as to what manipulation is. The thing is, that, manipulation goes far beyond what we normally think of. Sulking is blatant manipulation. We don't usually label it as such, because we coddle those that are playing/labeled victim.

He has issues that most likely stem from his childhood. They are probably not severe, so you should be fine teaching him that the victim card is no longer an option. However, victims *expect* coddling, and do what when they don't get it or are called out on it? They amplify. That is why you have to love in a firm manner. You invalidate the ploy, but are still inviting to him, in essence.

As such, you will be able to talk to him about his sex issues. Most likely, he weasels out of the conversation somehow. He might rush to agreeing with you, so that you back down. "I'll work on it. I promise." Or he might get defensive. What keeps this from changing is his ability to avoid honestly participating in the discussion, and his intentions never go far enough to realize permanent change.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Has he had his testosterone/estrogen levels checked? If his hormones are out of whack he won't want sex at all. If he has high estrogen and low testosterone it could be the reason. Just something to think about and/or get tested.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I agree with BadSanta, as usual. You need to take control. Instead of thinking of sex as what he can do to / for you, think about what you can do that turns you on. Maybe next sex session should include you masturbating while he watches. Maybe you tie him up and have your way with him.

Oh, and how do you not despise him? You may not be able to avoid it. So use the anger to fuel your dominating him in the bedroom.

Of course, if what you really want is for him to be more dominant, he may not have that to give you.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Perspective,

For some people the mushy stuff is a kind of foreplay, and needs to occur even before "actual foreplay", actual sex is then just the end point of the first two steps. It may just be the way they learned to have sex from their first few partners. 

Is there any real harm to you in engaging in the mushy stuff? Your lack of response to the mushy stuff may signal to him your lack of commitment to the marriage.

If there is any central thing I've learned from this and other websites it's to meet your spouses needs without expectation that they will meet yours. If you don't do it for your H at least do it for your children so that they see you loving their dad.

Tamat


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I'm afraid that this sounds like a classic LD / HD. He likes lots of non-sexual attention, and affirmation, but not sex. I'm sure you would be OK with the other affection if he wanted sex but he doesn't 

This almost never gets better so stop hoping. Live without sex, leave, cheat, your choice. You are not doing yourself or hi any good by resenting something that he can't change. 

From many discussions I am convinced that true LDs really cannot change.


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

j


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

In addition to MMSLP, you might try His Needs Her Needs, and do it with him. Sometimes just identifying each others needs helps a lot.

My husband is a bit like yours. He gets all upset if I don't sign each and every email to him with LOVE, for example. I just tell him to get the hell over it. He also loves to play the victim. We 're still working on that, but one thing that helps is when I tell him how I feel after he gets all defensive. Sometimes.

It's a lot of work to facilitate change in a guy like your husband, and some of them never will change. You may either have to resign yourself to the fact he's just that way and live with it, or find someone who is more of a mans man.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

perspective2 said:


> I am not leaving my marriage for some various good reasons and want to live in peace. It is very hard to do.
> 
> My dh is the mushy type wanting tons of i love you's at the end of every text or sulks and goodbye hugs or gets whiny but sex is a few times a year IF that and not very good when it does happen (yes, I've tried to 'spice it up' but it just isn't very good with him, I guess it is an emotional disconnect). 5 minutes into it he is asking 'what else can i do' which is code for him for hurry up and get done.
> 
> ...


Divorce him, he deserves better then someone who despises him and sees him as a paycheck. Someone will like the mushy stuff.


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

Thanks for the responses. He is still very obese for the person that asked that. He spent over $2000 on a personal trainer/gym which I was fine with and lost about 50 lbs, can't say I noticed a huge change in sex life but he became convinced he can only lose weight going to a certain gym doing a certain workout and since he feels he doesn't have time or want to make time for that (excuses) is putting it all back on.

I have told him if we can't develop a marriage relationship then when the kids are gone (if they ever are) or taken care of I'm leaving to which he just shed tears and did the victim 'oh i can't do anything right what about all i do around here, blah blah blah'. I told him those things are great (and I tell him thanks and praise at other times too) but that there is nothing about our relationship that says 'man and wife' emotionally or physically and I am tired of chasing after him to fix things.

Basically if I am not complaining about things he thinks everything is great even though I have made it clear it is not, it is just that i don't want to have a household where there is constant fighting. He is happy except for when I am complaining about stuff or denying him mushy responses. I can usually go a few months of coping and looking at the good side of life that I have before it really gets to me. I have tried the readers suggestion of sexy talk let's get together tonight. He promises and agrees and then nothing, which is totally brutal to be looking forward to it so now i don't even let my mind go there until we are physically in the act which is probably why i don't enjoy it even when we do it.

Basically I am just pathetic chasing down my dh begging him to give me what I need and he won't or can't and never will be able to. I just want to be able to quell the times I get so upset over it that i can't sleep or hardly function and have longer times of being able to cope. Basically he is a roomate or middle school boyfriend at best who brings maid, chauffer, childcare and a nice rent check to the table at this point and I need to expand my own hobbies/life as he will never give me what i need as a husband.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

This is depressing.
Thread after thread of someone in a sexless marriage. 

I'm here to tell you that all marriages aren't sexless, and that I believe sex is necessary for a happy marriage. It also appears that people who don't want sex never change.
My suggestion: if you're not getting sex, and you've discussed it and it never really changes--- just divorce.
Don't cheat (that is TOO heartbreaking and nobody deserves that), just divorce and find someone who is a better fit. 

My personal hope is that all cheaters find themselves in a sexless marriage, lol. 

Marriage is supposed to be something you do so that both of you are happier than you would be alone. It's not supposed to be a punishment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Geez, get him checked out for low testosterone, as suggested. He actually sounds like a good fellow if he'd just have sex with you. You sound like you'd be happy if he'd just give you some sex. It's such a shame.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Here is some fresh advice for you. You have to learn how to manage his attempts to sway you with his emotions. You see, we tend to have very specific views as to what manipulation is. The thing is, that, manipulation goes far beyond what we normally think of. Sulking is blatant manipulation. We don't usually label it as such, because we coddle those that are playing/labeled victim.
> 
> As such, you will be able to talk to him about his sex issues. Most likely, he weasels out of the conversation somehow. He might rush to agreeing with you, so that you back down. "I'll work on it. I promise." Or he might get defensive. What keeps this from changing is his ability to avoid honestly participating in the discussion, and his intentions never go far enough to realize permanent change.


Bingo! I read a book too good to leave too bad to stay and they call this 'off the tableitis'. So when he does it now I tell him to stop the off the tableitis (basically whining poor me i can't do anything right instead of addressing the subject at hand). I did tell him i read that book and what that means but he still constantly pulls this to try to veer the conversation off topic and back to him as the injured party and a victim.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Just divorce... many of us, including myself, have been where you are. You have one life to live, don't waste it being miserable. I've been divorced for a few months now and having the best sex of my life at the age of 35. Loving life.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

perspective2 said:


> Bingo! I read a book too good to leave too bad to stay and they call this 'off the tableitis'. So when he does it now I tell him to stop the off the tableitis (basically whining poor me i can't do anything right instead of addressing the subject at hand). I did tell him i read that book and what that means but he still constantly pulls this to try to veer the conversation off topic and back to him as the injured party and a victim.


Why would you want to have sex with a whiny victim? Ew.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

perspective2 said:


> Bingo! I read a book too good to leave too bad to stay and they call this 'off the tableitis'. So when he does it now I tell him to stop the off the tableitis (basically whining poor me i can't do anything right instead of addressing the subject at hand). I did tell him i read that book and what that means but he still constantly pulls this to try to veer the conversation off topic and back to him as the injured party and a victim.


Interesting! Thanks for the reply and testimony.

Ultimately, my advice is different or goes further than what it seems that book says. You would basically just ask questions, curiously, and invalidate his behavior. 

to be clear, I am saying "invalidate" in the sense of helping to eliminate what is bad relationship behavior. That said, Gottman defines validation as an acknowledgement of another's point, and not beating it down. Taking my advice, he is validated in the Gottman sense, but his behavior will be forced to change.

"Why do you feel that way?"

"Oh, so you feel _________ because _________?"

"I understand"

It is very powerful to force him to repeat himself, and to explain himself. Those that are using manipulation avoid taking responsibility for their words. They offload the responsibility for their words on others, in various manners. If you use this advice, he is 100% on the hook for what he says, and it will cause him a lot of discomfort. A lot. A lot. A lot.

That is why I say you have to still be inviting, compassionately. It is possible for him to escalate his emotional ploy. That is when your will is tested. Stay the course. If he escalates and runs off. You give him space, and then periodically check on him. If you can do this without criticizing him, he will be forced to back down, on his own.

That said, I need to check out that book you mentioned.


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> Geez, get him checked out for low testosterone, as suggested. He actually sounds like a good fellow if he'd just have sex with you. You sound like you'd be happy if he'd just give you some sex. It's such a shame.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just texted him that I want him to do this, his response: if you want me to. 

For some reason I feel even more pathetic sending my dh to medical doctors to try to come up with some kind of excuse why he could care less about being with me, I've always had this opinion that if someone wants you it happens if they don't it doesnt. Well maybe it is worth a try. 
I did look of testosterone replacement side effects though and increased risk of prostate cancer is one of them! Uggh, I guess I don't despise him cuz I really don't want to put him at increase risk of cancer even if it fixes things if is this is the issue but I guess resent him is a better term for how I feel.


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Interesting! Thanks for the reply and testimony.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting. I tried to pull up a text where he said we would talk about this issue and instead he kept the tv on all weekend and he was almost panicked in me bringing it up and just kept saying "i know what is says" it is like he did not want to have to face up to it.
Next time he tries his off the tableitis crap I will do this (nicely):

why do you feel this way? you don't appreciate me blah blah blah

oh so you feel i don't appreciate you ever because I want to discuss our lack of marital intimacy?

I will try to stomach the 'I understand' part lol


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Why would you want to have sex with a whiny victim? Ew.


Valid question. I don't. I'm just a normal healthy woman (not HL) so that is who I have to choose from since I'm married. I told him at one point out of desperation if he isn't going to take care of this then I will find someone who will to which he whiningly replied "well I don't like it but I guess you are going to do what you are going to do and I can't do anything about it". Ahhh, the loving words every wife wants to hear... Something changed for me about how I see him (I believe permanently) after that exchange.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

perspective2 said:


> Very interesting. I tried to pull up a text where he said we would talk about this issue and instead he kept the tv on all weekend and he was almost panicked in me bringing it up and just kept saying "i know what is says" it is like he did not want to have to face up to it.
> Next time he tries his off the tableitis crap I will do this (nicely):
> 
> why do you feel this way? you don't appreciate me blah blah blah
> ...


I know how hard it is. I don't advise or use the advice because it is easy. I do it because it works.




> oh so you feel i don't appreciate you ever because I want to discuss our lack of marital intimacy?


Unless he says that, you can't add anything to it. If he says you don't appreciate him:

"So, you feel I don't appreciate you."

.......

"And why is that?"

.........

"rephrase or paraphrase of what he said."

It could be something crazy, but you are only asking questions, not making statements.

and yes, plenty of "i understand"

I like to tell individuals that you are just writing a book on your romantic partner. It takes no endorsement of their words to write a book, right?

From there, you will know the truth that is behind his "you don't appreciate me" ploy. There is some deep hurt he has, that he is afraid to tell you. It is probably something very simple, and easily rectifiable.

If you can, don't even really comment on what he says. Give it some time. He was heard, which is important. From there, you just have to see how both of you can get to a point of mutual benefit.

Did this help?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I HATE it when my husband says "I understand" when I tell him something. I feel completely disregarded.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> I HATE it when my husband says "I understand" when I tell him something. I feel completely disregarded.


That is because there is nothing behind it.

If I say "I understand" to my love, it leads to the solution.

her: "I don't feel like we spend enough time together."

me : "I understand, so you are saying we don't spend enough time together."

me "What do you feel would help?"

her: "You are doing xyz too much."

me: "You feel I am spending too much time on xyz, instead of spending time with you, is that right?"

her: "yeah."


From there, I ( for example) have to follow through.

"I understand" is a very critical first step of the process. If the one that "understands" doesn't take it further, then there is a disconnection between partners.



Thanks for bringing up that point, Hope.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Why not just leave out the 'I understand' part then?? That exchange means the exact same thing without it. It's still condescending.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Another good line is "thank you for sharing". If you can say that and mean it when your partner admits an unpleasant truth, you encourage them to keep sharing their truth. If you punish them when they admit unpleasant truths, they will stop telling the truth and become more avoidant. 

And you really should be thankful, because it is good for you when your partner admits their inner truth. Might not be what you want to hear, but at least you know. And at least you are not living in denial and hope that maybe they feel differently. It might be bad, but not as bad as you feared. Or it might be worse than you feared, which may motivate you to take action you were previously unready to take when you thought it wasn't so bad.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

VermisciousKnid said:


> I assume this was said sarcastically?
> 
> Cheating is despicable whatever the justification. If you resent and despise your husband for being pathetic you should NOT do something TRULY DESPICABLE like cheating.


It wasn't purposely said sarcastically nor was it a recommendation to find someone on the side. It was basically her available options if she stays with him. Her trying to get him to change is likely an exercise in futility. 
There are constant warnings out there about getting involved with someone and thinking you can change them. Yet many folks believe its not that difficult in the sex department. Take my word for it, it is that difficult. You ain't gonna turn a LD, sexually incompetent man (or woman) into a great lover with perennial desire. Unless you can correct it with hormone treatment, sexual desire is born and not made. And if you're not interested, you're just flat are not interested.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Why not just leave out the 'I understand' part then??


Because its a attempt manipulate them into believing you're the empathetic good guy (you "understand" them) when you really don't give a sh1t about their perspective but you don't want them to know it. (and you want to get your point across)


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## perspective2 (Jun 4, 2014)

It could be something crazy, but you are only asking questions, not making statements.

and yes, plenty of "i understand"

I like to tell individuals that you are just writing a book on your romantic partner. It takes no endorsement of their words to write a book, right?


Did this help?[/QUOTE]

thanks, I definitely need to remember to not let our discusssions escalate to me being angry because that really does no good and is not productive, i will try some of these methods next time we talk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Maybe he's just a fat guy with low self esteem who sees seething resentment in his wife's eyes and doesn't have the emotional maturity to realize he is making things worse through avoidance.

Getting fat sucks because it is embarrassing - maybe he's just afraid that sex amplifies his whole aura of fatness.

I'm a doer - I don't like to waste time with people who drag me down. In your shoes I'd schedule the low-t test and just inform him. Then I'd schedule an IC or sex therapist for him and tell him. 

If you aren't going to leave and he is paralyzed by fear and/or insecurity, then just take over and get him fixed.

He'll either grow a pair and start to push back (win) or won't and the therapists will start to get him fixed (win).

But YOU shouldn't become a resentful, whiney wife as a consequence of his brokenness.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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