# Wife isn't satisfied... Ever.



## cjkdad (Jul 6, 2010)

Hello, sorry that this is my first post, but I've been searching and searching and have found nothing that exactly matches my situation so that I can save you all time by using those pieces of advice.

Can you all help me? 

NOTE: Wow, I've typed, retyped, deleted and re-deleted my explaination about 7 times! I seriously don't know how to convey my problem without boring you all with the darned details!

Let me try this: I am a husband that works for himself. I make more money than an average joe but only work 3-4 days a week to do so. My customer base is steadily growing but the economy has taken it's toll. No real backsteps, only growth, which is nice.

So, I have a lot more "free time" to give to the family. Notice I didn't say "for myself" 

My wife thinks that if I'm not working, then I should be pounding the pavement for more work or spending time with the family or helping with chores... Fishing or mountain biking could be all but disappear if it was up to her, but somehow I get kitchen passes from time to time.

Anyway, after loads of arguing, fighting, divorce talks and general distrust issues, I have come to the conclusion that I can do more around the house on a regular scheduled basis.... I gave up. But by giving up, I actually agreed with her in many ways, not just "giving in" to shut her up. I genuinely got the point and realized that I was deficient in the family commitment department.

Now? I work as much as possible. If I'm not working, I'm looking for work, shmoozing someone in a mercedez benz, doing chores, or spending time with my family and 2.5yr old daughter. What time I have left, I guiltily ask for time to go fishing or mountain biking for a few hours, to up to a half or whole day. This only happens once a week maybe. She parties with her friends at least once a week and/or stays late at work for "happy hour" I always say, "Have fun" and just call if you're late. I never put it in her face that she's a married mother and probably shouldn't be hanging out late with single people, drinking and driving home buzzed.... but whatever. She says it's the same thing as my fishing and mountain biking.

I am expected to do these things regularly, as in they are MY responsibility in the household.
Dishes 
Laundry 
Vacuuming 
Emptying the trash cans
Changing diapers when I'm home
Bathing our daughter
Unloading the dishwasher
washing the car

I am not expected to do these things, but do them a lot voluntarily at least once a week if not a lot more:
Making the bed
Dusting
Cleaning one of the two bathrooms
Fixing... well everything (I'm McGyver's brother)
Spending Daddy and Me time with my daughter
Making dinner on mondays
Making breakfast on sundays
Making whatever meal is asked of me.
Picking up my daughter from daycare twice a week (the only two days she has to go)

I seriously could list 20 more things... I'm CONSTANLY doing something around here. Which, I have found is fulfilling in some way or another....

Problem is, she is still thinking that I'm not filling her "love tank" because I falter on some of the "required" duties I do regularly and by doing that, creates a situation that causes her to "have to" do them for me. This isn't often, but she has a true control problem.... 

My main question is. I feel GREAT about the effort I put in and feel that I should be credited for the "heart" that I put into my labors around here, but she doesn't give me that. I get a pouty little pissed off wife if she came home to breakfast's dishes after work or wakes up to a pile of laundry that I didn't finish. I seriously feel I can NEVER satisfy her.

Our main problem is that she says that her "love language" is "Acts of Service". Everything I've read about that subject explains that when a man speaks a woman's language with an act of service, it's out of "assistance". Not what he's expected to do. So, she uses that as an excuse to not have sex with me or to act like the sweet naughy young filly I remember and thrive on. She's "Mom on a mission" now and since I've not held my part of the "deal" then it MAKES her do my part which makes her too tired to make love.... isn't that great, my love language is physical touch and words of affirmation! Wow, what a blow! I have to slave away (so she has interpereted it as anyway) daily to keep her love tank full and all she has to do is use her words, looks and gestures to tell me I'm awesome in her eyes. And just by the fact alone that NOBODY has sex daily or maybe even weekly, that she only has to fulfill that love language THAT often! 


I know this was way too long and if you got to this point, thank you. I can type faster than I can speak actually... some say I should be a typist of some sort for work.

Anyway, I'm going to stop here, but I'm positive that I've left out way more than I should have, and probably included way more than necessary.

My MAIN question really is this. It's simple.

AM I DROPPING THE BALL HERE??? Am I truly as inadequate as she communicates to me with her reciprocal actions? Is her interpretation correct as to what "Acts of Service" means? I've read the book and many websites that say she's "perverted" the meaning of acts of service and used it to get stuff done around the house and has ignored the TRUE acts that I commit to say "I love you" as normal... like she's numb to it or used to it. My Dad says that I've got her spoiled and that's the problem.... The kicker is, HER own mother says the same.... that she doesn't realize the depth of man she has and is insatiable! Her own mother!

Thanks for any help.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

Tell her your love language is sex and if you dont get any you dont feel like doing acts of service! just kidding kind of, tell her you dont feel your acts of service are being appriciated and you dont feel your needs are being met. Tell her you feel you make a good living, do things around the house, and the lack of appriciation will not be accepted anymore.


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## cjkdad (Jul 6, 2010)

LOL, that's what I did tonight.

Didn't go well. But, I didn't fight, yell, insult or belittle. I simply said, "I feel that you have perverted the meaning of what "acts of service" is supposed to mean for me. I feel I do a ton of work in this family to show you and it that I am in love with it. I will keep striving to do the things that help this family function better, but I will not continue to accept the manipulative pouting and suggestive hints you give that I should be "tightening up" my MO."

She's EXTREMELY articulate and EVERYONE I or she has ever met has said the same thing... "Wow, she'd make a great lawyer"

She can mince words so well, it'd make even another woman's head spin! She's an Ex Jahovah's witness and from what one of the Ex Elders told me they really become good debaters. I don't know if that's the "training" she's had, but arguing with her is absolutely impossible! So I didn't. Just said in closing,"I am a great husband and father now that you have trained me so well... leave me alone. Let me be the best I can be and accept that you've got a pretty damn commited man in your life! Most women would kill to have a devoted husband like me..." I calmly said I was done arguing and closed the door quietly so she could go to sleep.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

She sounds kinda like a person who has to be in control. My brother married one of those and really if she says the sky is green you can prove it is blue all you want but she will never admit she is wrong. If this is true of your wife the more you do to please her the higher she will raise the bar. Thankfully my SIL has a real good side to her as well.


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## cjkdad (Jul 6, 2010)

Wow, did you ever hit the nail on the head!

Brief and accurate. My father in law said something similar about his hown daughter. (about the sky being green) But the bar being higher and higher sounds just like my wife.

Case in point: I made a damn good living in her eyes and living in So California simply "required" a second income to some degree. Even with kids. So she was ok with working a few days a week, but BOTH of us know and agree that it's not "best" for the kids.

Well, about 3 years ago she learned of my friend that does the same line of work that I do. I came home one day after he and I went to lunch to discuss how I can turn my $40-50k / year biz into a $120k / year biz... He made (and showed me proof) $120 a year doing the same thing I was only making the lesser for... I excitedly came home and told my wife the potential for earnings, but all she saw was the number. Not the time required to grow to that level, nor the intense amount of marketing and networking required. AT THAT MOMENT held me to that $120k/year expectation and it's been hell ever since. I'm now at $70+k/year now and get zero credit for it because she has to work a little still. There is TOTAL resentment that our little girl is apparently getting mind screwed by having to be away from her mother for 2-3 days a week! I don't think she'll even be satisfied when I CAN afford to keep her home full time... she'll find another reason why we should be living better. ugh


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

Wow, I'm in the same boat. I have love spoiled my wife. She has no idea how good of a husband I am. I would be in for solutions to this problem!

Your situation sounds a little more complex with kids and a house....

What I am trying is kind of like a "love detox." I am cutting out all forms of affection yet maintaining a friendly atmosphere. If she shows me affection, I return it, but no more. I am doing the things expected of me but no more. I am working on improving myself and making myself happy in the meantime. It's kind of an experiment in progress so I certainly don't have all the answers. And again, I'm not sure this would apply very well to you...


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

she is using her "parts" to get as much out of you as she can. its called sex as a weapon. your enabling it, at least you were, your last post will put you on the right track.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

MrRomantic said:


> Wow, I'm in the same boat. I have love spoiled my wife. She has no idea how good of a husband I am. I would be in for solutions to this problem!
> 
> Your situation sounds a little more complex with kids and a house....
> 
> What I am trying is kind of like a "love detox." I am cutting out all forms of affection yet maintaining a friendly atmosphere. If she shows me affection, I return it, but no more. I am doing the things expected of me but no more. I am working on improving myself and making myself happy in the meantime. It's kind of an experiment in progress so I certainly don't have all the answers. And again, I'm not sure this would apply very well to you...


Sometimes “spoiled” wives just can’t see it and they can’t see it because “it” has always been “there”. Think how much we take our body for granted. Index finger on the right hand? Try manipulating things without it, very difficult. We just so take it so much for granted because “it’s always been there”.

Spoiled wives are like that. Mine? I paid every bill including rent and mortgage for 38 years, from the day we were married and moved into a new home until we separated. Never once did I get a “thanks” for it. Not monthly, yearly, once a decade! I did get a “How could you let that happen” when one time I couldn’t make the mortgage payment. Yet I thanked my wife for every meal she cooked. I did tell my wife I needed her appreciation to feel loved by her.

Now she’s on her own and she’s discovered money’s not easy to come by, that those damn bills come in every month, cigarettes are expensive, that her home needs furnishing and furniture costs money.

I think when wives get like they do at times, showing them more love and trying to be more understanding is so the wrong way to go. Definitely accepting too much responsibility for what’s going wrong and “changing” is the wrong way to go. Instead of “trying”, husbands should withdraw and withhold. Tell their wives they’ll no longer pay the mortgage, any more bills. And when they ask “What’s up?” we should say “Nothing” or “I don’t know”. When they ask “What are you thinking?”, instead of telling them we should say “Nothing”.

Bob


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Hire a maid, go mountain biking.

Sit down with her and do a time estimate of free time versus "work" versus domestic chores versus family time---for the both of you.

It will be an eye opener.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Hunt Brown said:


> what a bunch of babies!
> 
> tracking tasks and keeping score and complaining that the ref is making bad calls and oh, the humanity, how you are so set upon and misused...
> 
> ...



some may get results this way, some not. depends entirely on the personality of the other spouse. if this worked for you, great. doesnt mean it will for everybody.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

okeydokie said:


> she is using her "parts" to get as much out of you as she can. its called sex as a weapon. your enabling it, at least you were, your last post will put you on the right track.


I actually call that sex as a bargining chip. My SIL is 47 yrs old as still does that to my bro, funny how it doesnt work as well now, which gets her POd.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AFEH said:


> Sometimes “spoiled” wives just can’t see it and they can’t see it because “it” has always been “there”. Think how much we take our body for granted. Index finger on the right hand? Try manipulating things without it, very difficult. We just so take it so much for granted because “it’s always been there”.


I'll admit, I WAS a spoiled wife. My husband has always done, been & gave everything for me, always there, always willing to please. And I still had a bad attitude sometimes, not so much againt him, but life and took it out on him, not terribly, but he got the brunt. Back in the day, he would smile & just say "Yes Dear" and still does at times- and we laugh. 

All the helping around the house, which I didnt really need anyway, did nothing for him getting what He wanted (more sex of coarse). He mistakenly thought by doing my dishes, this would put me in the mood to come after him. That is just funny to me personally. 

All of us are SOOO different , where with one wife, the helping around the house, picking up laudary, doing homework with the kids might open her eyes, for another, she will further just take her husband for granted. (sadly - ME !). 

I am the type, sorry to say ,that needed some kind of Jolt, to see what I might be loosing, to shock me out of my complacency, or some real heart felt communication to realize I was truly hurting HIM. He failed to do those things- but just kept being wonderful. So he suffered much longer than he needed. He says he was always happy with me, EXCEPT the frequency of sex. But for a guy, we know that's a BIG deal. I didn't get it. 



AFEH said:


> I think when wives get like they do at times, showing them more love and trying to be more understanding is so the wrong way to go. Definitely accepting too much responsibility for what’s going wrong and “changing” is the wrong way to go. Instead of “trying”, husbands should withdraw and withhold. Tell their wives they’ll no longer pay the mortgage, any more bills. And when they ask “What’s up?” we should say “Nothing” or “I don’t know”. When they ask “What are you thinking?”, instead of telling them we should say “Nothing”.


 I really agree with the 1st part of this, but not the second half, when she asks What's up- I think being heartfully honest, even to the point of it hurting her is better than saying "nothing" or "I don't know". At least don't let that drag on for days. It will lead to more misunderstanding and if she is the type who uses the Silent Treatment, this could lead to Hell. 

Be Direct in your approach to Withhold & withdrawl, but be equally as direct in the WHY's you are doing it - so she can see you mean business NOW, that her actions are directly hurting YOU/hurting the harmony of the marraige. And you wont be taken for Granted anymore.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I really agree with the 1st part of this, but not the second half, when she asks What's up- I think being heartfully honest, even to the point of it hurting her is better than saying "nothing" or "I don't know". At least don't let that drag on for days. It will lead to more misunderstanding and if she is the type who uses the Silent Treatment, this could lead to Hell.
> 
> Be Direct in your approach to Withhold & withdrawl, but be equally as direct in the WHY's you are doing it - so she can see you mean business NOW, that her actions are directly hurting YOU/hurting the harmony of the marraige. And you wont be taken for Granted anymore.


I was being a tad facetious. It’s exactly what I got from my W. I knew something was wrong and was trying to find out what it was and those were some of the responses I got. Just saying instead of bending over backwards to save, conform, do better, change or whatever, just give them some of their own medicine and see how they like it. Withhold, withdraw, give bland answers etc. When my sons were toddlers the younger of the two used to bite his brother. Nothing I tried stopped him. So I had a chat with the elder and told him when it happens again, bite him back but in a very controlled way and not in a temper. He did and my younger son never bit him again.

Sometimes it’s really hard to be emotionally honest, but without that emotional honesty the relationship is far from authentic. It becomes a figment of the imagination, unreal, a delusion.

SA I’ve always thought recognition and ownership of a problem is more than half of what’s required to resolve it. Kudos to you.

Get the steak and wine in, lay the table, light the candles and incense, put the music on, turn down the lights I’ll guarantee he’ll think he’s in paradise. It will affect him in a big way emotionally.

Bob


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## MrRomantic (Jun 14, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I'll admit, I WAS a spoiled wife. My husband has always done, been & gave everything for me, always there, always willing to please. And I still had a bad attitude sometimes, not so much againt him, but life and took it out on him, not terribly, but he got the brunt. Back in the day, he would smile & just say "Yes Dear" and still does at times- and we laugh.


I'm hoping to gain some insight into my wife through you if you dont mind...

What changed? What opened your eyes to realize all that he did for you?

Also, all the while he was doing all of these things like the dishes, what were you thinking? My wife said that she always felt guilty when I would cook, clean, and do errands because she didn't feel like doing them. Instead of her seeing it as a way I was showing my love and helping her out, she resented me for making her feel guilty. But what was my other option? NOT doing these things. Then I'm sure she would get upset with me for letting things go. My wife is someone of a neat freak, so when she would finally break down and do the things I was now NOT doing, I'm sure she would resent me for that as well. What is a man supposed to do?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

No amount of money will replace a spine. As for her excellent verbal skills there is a simple remedy. You "write" a short script of what you want to say. If you have a good idea how she will respond you "write" your planned responses to her expected comments. Ultimately you need to have the fall back statement which will combat anything she says. Something along the lines of: 

"If completing 95% of my responsibilities means you focus on the 5% I miss and deprive me of sex as a result, I am going to start doing less around the house and more on my business effective immediately. And frankly you need to start making the effort to be nicer to me in general if you want our marriage to succeed."

If she gets conciliatory great. If she escalates go strike something from your to do list and put the "revised" list on the fridge. And then stop doing it. If she goes into "freeze out" mode, give it a few days and strike something else off the list. 

DON'T use your free time to play video games/watch tv. Spend it working. Don't apologize for it. If she presses the point simply say "I am focusing in growing my business". 





cjkdad said:


> Wow, did you ever hit the nail on the head!
> 
> Brief and accurate. My father in law said something similar about his hown daughter. (about the sky being green) But the bar being higher and higher sounds just like my wife.
> 
> ...


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## DailyGrind (Jun 27, 2010)

AFEH said:


> Yet I thanked my wife for every meal she cooked.


HA! I do the same thing. ANY time my wife makes anything, more than plain spaghetti, or hotdogs on the stove....I ALWAYS thank her (and ask the kids to thank her) for the wonderful meal. And yet, all Summer long (many meals)....and EVERY camping trip (all meals) fall on me to prepare, on the grill...or over the fire. Has she ever ONCE thanked ME for dinner???!!! :lol:


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> No amount of money will replace a spine. As for her excellent verbal skills there is a simple remedy. You "write" a short script of what you want to say. If you have a good idea how she will respond you "write" your planned responses to her expected comments. Ultimately you need to have the fall back statement which will combat anything she says. Something along the lines of:
> 
> "If completing 95% of my responsibilities means you focus on the 5% I miss and deprive me of sex as a result, I am going to start doing less around the house and more on my business effective immediately. And frankly you need to start making the effort to be nicer to me in general if you want our marriage to succeed."
> 
> ...


LOL thats funny, I like it. Sounds to me like that is what the women call making boundaries and enforcing them but if we do the same thing we are baaad people.


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## LuckyCharmH (Jan 4, 2010)

I'm in the same shoe as you, 

if you need a good advice listen to SimplyAmorous
and Hunt Brown is correct on most of what he said.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Brewster 59 said:


> LOL thats funny, I like it. Sounds to me like that is what the women call making boundaries and enforcing them but if we do the same thing we are baaad people.


Looking back I can see my wife emotionally disconnected from me a long time before we separated. The instant I declared my new emotional boundaries, behaviour I’d no longer tolerate, she instantly mentally disconnected from me as well. It was quite something to observe, to watch. I’ve put the mental disconnection down to the fact that she realised she could no longer emotionally manipulate, control and hurt me like she was so used to doing.

She tried her emotional control. I was prepared to give her a few yellow warning cards before she got the red, “you’re off my pitch, your not in my game of life any more” red card. But I thought wtf and she got the red.

Bob


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I put a lot into my marriage and have provided my W with a good life. In return I demand respect (that includes respect for MY needs) and kindness. Pretty simple arrangement. Works very well.




Brewster 59 said:


> LOL thats funny, I like it. Sounds to me like that is what the women call making boundaries and enforcing them but if we do the same thing we are baaad people.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Stop thanking her. When if eventually notices - explain why. If she doesn't - maybe she doesn't care about that type compliment - not her love language....




DailyGrind said:


> HA! I do the same thing. ANY time my wife makes anything, more than plain spaghetti, or hotdogs on the stove....I ALWAYS thank her (and ask the kids to thank her) for the wonderful meal. And yet, all Summer long (many meals)....and EVERY camping trip (all meals) fall on me to prepare, on the grill...or over the fire. Has she ever ONCE thanked ME for dinner???!!! :lol:


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Cjk, does your wife work part-time or full-time? If she is working full-time, it's logical if she expects you do do more chores around the house, but if you're both putting in the same number of hours, chores should be split more evenly.

The responsibilities that you list seem totally reasonable given that you only work 3-4 days a week--I would suggest just getting all of them done EVERY DAY, no slip ups, no forgetting, no excuses, no complaining, and no getting upset if your wife doesn't say thank you. They're your responsibilities, why should she say thank you? Your daughter doesn't say thank you for changing her diapers, but she certainly would get upset if you didn't. (Ok, kind of bad analogy, but you get the point...Your wife probably doesn't view these daily tasks as thank-you-worthy). Just stay on top of everything and you won't have to worry about your wife getting upset at you for skipping out on your duties. If you do all of these all the time without sighing or acting like a martyr (not saying that you do, but I've seen this happen in a lot of women), then you have earned the right to some free time! TELL your wife you are going out, don't ask. Say "I was going to do chore X this afternoon, but I already got everything done for the week, so I am going biking and I'll be back at Y time so I can spend some more time with the family." Then LEAVE. It looks like you're already making progress standing up for yourself so keep up the good work! The more initiative you take, the less you ask permission to do things, the less you get offended when your wife doesn't express gratitude, the more of a man you will become in her eyes and the more attractive you will become to her. Just make sure you're not faltering on any of your agreed-upon duties as husband and father in the process, as this can really backfire and decrease her confidence in you and your abilities. 

Hunt Brown is totally right--you need to stop keeping score of who did what nice thing and did the other person express appreciation, etc. Do what is asked of you by your family and don't expect anything in return (and don't pout if no one thanks you). I know it's hard when you tell your wife you appreciate what she does, but it's likely she just doesn't view your thanks in the same way that you would view hers. Keep in mind that this is your MARRIAGE, not a battle to see who is right...Even if your wife doesn't realize this, you can be the bigger person and start to change your attitude.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is excellent advice. 



lime said:


> Cjk, does your wife work part-time or full-time? If she is working full-time, it's logical if she expects you do do more chores around the house, but if you're both putting in the same number of hours, chores should be split more evenly.
> 
> The responsibilities that you list seem totally reasonable given that you only work 3-4 days a week--I would suggest just getting all of them done EVERY DAY, no slip ups, no forgetting, no excuses, no complaining, and no getting upset if your wife doesn't say thank you. They're your responsibilities, why should she say thank you? Your daughter doesn't say thank you for changing her diapers, but she certainly would get upset if you didn't. (Ok, kind of bad analogy, but you get the point...Your wife probably doesn't view these daily tasks as thank-you-worthy). Just stay on top of everything and you won't have to worry about your wife getting upset at you for skipping out on your duties. If you do all of these all the time without sighing or acting like a martyr (not saying that you do, but I've seen this happen in a lot of women), then you have earned the right to some free time! TELL your wife you are going out, don't ask. Say "I was going to do chore X this afternoon, but I already got everything done for the week, so I am going biking and I'll be back at Y time so I can spend some more time with the family." Then LEAVE. It looks like you're already making progress standing up for yourself so keep up the good work! The more initiative you take, the less you ask permission to do things, the less you get offended when your wife doesn't express gratitude, the more of a man you will become in her eyes and the more attractive you will become to her. Just make sure you're not faltering on any of your agreed-upon duties as husband and father in the process, as this can really backfire and decrease her confidence in you and your abilities.
> 
> Hunt Brown is totally right--you need to stop keeping score of who did what nice thing and did the other person express appreciation, etc. Do what is asked of you by your family and don't expect anything in return (and don't pout if no one thanks you). I know it's hard when you tell your wife you appreciate what she does, but it's likely she just doesn't view your thanks in the same way that you would view hers. Keep in mind that this is your MARRIAGE, not a battle to see who is right...Even if your wife doesn't realize this, you can be the bigger person and start to change your attitude.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

OP, get this book - Relationship Book, Self Help Relationship Book For a Man, Best Manual for Men - read it, and then read it your wife, and then tell her that you will be changing how you deal with her accordingly, to preserve your love for her. It will teach you that you CAN have the fishing etc and STILL be what she wants.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> This is excellent advice.


If one of his love languages is affirmation then he shouldn't have to go without it. As far as chores, they should be done with the same professionalism as he performs at work. His first post that detailed the number of days he works tells me he's not a workaholic and probably never was. He's more carefree and is probably what attracted his wife. Now after a few years his general carefree attitude is annoying his wife. Do your chores to the best of your ability. If you miss something get to it the next day. If Ur wife making love to you is dependent on a checklist being complete then you have much bigger problems. I used to get on my wife about chores and how they "should" be done. It probably caused the majority of our arguments. As we got older and learned to communicate my wife got better in her effort and got better at not being so uptight about the little stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lime said:


> The responsibilities that you list seem totally reasonable given that you only work 3-4 days a week--I would suggest just getting all of them done EVERY DAY, no slip ups, no forgetting, no excuses, no complaining, and no getting upset if your wife doesn't say thank you. They're your responsibilities, why should she say thank you? Your daughter doesn't say thank you for changing her diapers, but she certainly would get upset if you didn't. (Ok, kind of bad analogy, but you get the point...Your wife probably doesn't view these daily tasks as thank-you-worthy). Just stay on top of everything and you won't have to worry about your wife getting upset at you for skipping out on your duties. If you do all of these all the time without sighing or acting like a martyr (not saying that you do, but I've seen this happen in a lot of women), then you have earned the right to some free time!


QFT.

I've spent my spare time the last two to three weeks going through boxes of paper to get our taxes done. Nearly every night. This weekend, he spent most of Monday shampooing our carpet (because we got in a fight and that's what he does to make up). I was about to thank him for doing it, when I realized, when, in 30 years, has he ever thanked me for doing the taxes? He never thanks me for having his favorite drink in the fridge, but he sure makes me look like a tool if I DON'T have them in the fridge.

It's all about equitableness and fairness, IMO.



> TELL your wife you are going out, don't ask. Say "I was going to do chore X this afternoon, but I already got everything done for the week, so I am going biking and I'll be back at Y time so I can spend some more time with the family." Then LEAVE. It looks like you're already making progress standing up for yourself so keep up the good work! The more initiative you take, the less you ask permission to do things, the less you get offended when your wife doesn't express gratitude, the more of a man you will become in her eyes and the more attractive you will become to her. Just make sure you're not faltering on any of your agreed-upon duties as husband and father in the process, as this can really backfire and decrease her confidence in you and your abilities.


This is EXACTLY what the book I recommended talks about.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

He may have to choose getting frequently thanked or regularly getting laid. Some women will respond just fine to being told he needs to hear thank you. Others will do it - and perceive you as "needy". Women typically do not respond physically to "needy" men. Taken to the extreme what if I said that I needed all 5 love languages on a regular basis? 




Kobo said:


> If one of his love languages is affirmation then he shouldn't have to go without it. As far as chores, they should be done with the same professionalism as he performs at work. His first post that detailed the number of days he works tells me he's not a woraholic
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Y


MEM11363 said:


> He may have to choose getting frequently thanked or regularly getting laid. Some women will respond just fine to being told he needs to hear thank you. Others will do it - and perceive you as "needy". Women typically do not respond physically to "needy" men. Taken to the extreme what if I said that I needed all 5 love languages on a regular basis?


If he has a need for affirmation and doesnt get it he will be resentful. Once that builds up he'll get laid somewhere else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

According to Marriage Builders, we each have our own VALID set of top 5 Emotional Needs, sort of like the love languages. It is our spouse's 'duty' (don't shoot me, I'm speaking philosophically here) to care enough about us to want to MEET those top 5 ENs. If a person needs affirmation as a top EN, then he needs it. Period. We shouldn't be choosing which EN we want to meet for our spouse; we should be loving him enough to want to be the ONE person meeting those ENs - or else someone else may come along and do it for us.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

turnera said:


> According to Marriage Builders, we each have our own VALID set of top 5 Emotional Needs, sort of like the love languages. It is our spouse's 'duty' (don't shoot me, I'm speaking philosophically here) to care enough about us to want to MEET those top 5 ENs. If a person needs affirmation as a top EN, then he needs it. Period. We shouldn't be choosing which EN we want to meet for our spouse; we should be loving him enough to want to be the ONE person meeting those ENs - or else someone else may come along and do it for us.


So true. Else what happens? Two people love each other, they tell them so and show that love in "their own way". But neither actually "feel loved". I think marriage would be so much more fulfilling if each partner learnt the others needs and put it into practice.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MrRomantic said:


> I'm hoping to gain some insight into my wife through you if you dont mind...
> 
> What changed? What opened your eyes to realize all that he did for you?
> 
> Also, all the while he was doing all of these things like the dishes, what were you thinking? My wife said that she always felt guilty when I would cook, clean, and do errands because she didn't feel like doing them. Instead of her seeing it as a way I was showing my love and helping her out, she resented me for making her feel guilty.


Hmmm, First I want to say, I am probably different from the wife that the original poster describes, I am just a stay at home Mom, maybe she works? And needs more help around the house, I totally agree with Lime in what he layed out in that post. 

I can't say my husband did all that much, as I usually had everything done when he comes home from work. Just if he seen something needed done, vacuming, a few dishes in the sink, he might do these things- randomly, as he knows I can't go to sleep at night until these things are done. Maybe he thought that it would hurry us to bed. I never felt guilty -like your wife. You must be doing MORE than your share if she feels guilty. Acts of Service do little for me personally, I know that is on the bottom of my Love Languages list. I try to do what I feel I am supposed to do as a wife (shopping, cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, laundry)- especially since I am privledged enough to be able to stay home. And he does the manly things I can not do (vehicle/house repairs, anything requiring tools). Neither of us ever complained that the other was not carrying his load in those kinds of things. 

My husband only had 1 thing that bothered him. 

I think Life just got too busy, the planning, so busy trying to conceive (I was obsessed with that for a time), then finding our dream house, then working on the dream house together & so many kids by then, I was emeshed in their activities. When I got a computer, I was addicted to that for awhile. 

What changed - what opened *MY *eyes you ask. This is a loaded question, I have more than a couple answers for that! It was nothing he did or didn’t do as he was always loving, patient, available & wonderful - but PASSIVE. More than Most men. I used to sleep with all the babies in between us at night, he just let me do it. For awhile, he even slept on the floor beside our bed. Where was my head ! I don’t know! But in all fairness, where was his head, he SHOULD have not allowed this! He suffered, for the sake of the happiness of his children & myself, in silence. What a guy! YES, but in looking back, I think he cheated us both by not laying things on the line, showing me HIS FEELINGS & HIS NEEDS mattered MORE than that. 

I think I fell into a Mid life Crisis for one. A few odd things happened around the time the lightbulb came on & I realized just how deeply I "appreciated" my husband (and wanted him physically in return)- ALOT more than once a week. 

One thing that happened during that time - I was making a Movie Maker Video of our 1st Son's Graduation party, full of pics of his life & songs. After I completed this, I thought, I need to make one for me & his dad, our lives together (28 yrs so far, 20 married), I literally stayed up an entire night scanning Pics , and put a love song from our Wedding on there & some others. I played this back, and WOW, my emotions took me by surprise, watching all those yrs roll by, the tears just started flowing. All those beautiful memories, I was even thinking, Da**, he really looked HOT back then! This really rocked my world -into seeing Life is passing us by, I want to be YOUNG again, I want to feel passion & Romance & *Sex* ! 

Then near this same time, I had my 1st bladder infection , was told by my DOC that sex can bring these on, I remember telling him one night, we can’t have sex for awhile, his response was "I am used to that", and he didn't seem too concerned. Maybe that made me want it MORE! Isn't it funny how when something is taken away, or forbidden, it has a new allure , it spikes the interest. I started thinking, Oh my God, my husband lost his drive! That wonderful drive that I took for granted all of those years, so foolishly! 

I guess this is what I deserve. But I didn’t like it - so set out on seeing what I can do about it. The rest is history. 

Hey, feel free to PM me, I have some others things I can add to this, let me know your story, maybe I can give you some ideas.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

SA, i wish you could send your attitude to my wife


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

okeydokie said:


> SA, i wish you could send your attitude to my wife


 My husband does enjoy my attitude & enthuasiam much more these days. I wasn't always so easy to deal with though, used to be a real pain in the A** . 

Cute story - Last year we were riding bikes & stopped off to get some black berries, one of our bike tires was on the trail -but in no way a hazard as the trail was wide, and this woman comes along, yelling at us for not getting off the bike path, we were kind of surprised, my "not many words" husband looks at me after she gets past & says calmly "She needs layed !". 

And I thought to myself, you are probably right !! Always the analyzer here, I used to be a little like that woman, probably what I needed more too- back in the day. Amazing what getting layed on a regular basis can do for your outlook in life.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

All fair points. I also think there needs to be a reasonable standard of performance. If she is looking to find fault so she can avoid sex - which is likely - he needs to address that. And not by trying to be perfect. 




Kobo said:


> If one of his love languages is affirmation then he shouldn't have to go without it. As far as chores, they should be done with the same professionalism as he performs at work. His first post that detailed the number of days he works tells me he's not a workaholic and probably never was. He's more carefree and is probably what attracted his wife. Now after a few years his general carefree attitude is annoying his wife. Do your chores to the best of your ability. If you miss something get to it the next day. If Ur wife making love to you is dependent on a checklist being complete then you have much bigger problems. I used to get on my wife about chores and how they "should" be done. It probably caused the majority of our arguments. As we got older and learned to communicate my wife got better in her effort and got better at not being so uptight about the little stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cjkdad (Jul 6, 2010)

Wow, great responses guys! And Hunt, you actually have a point BUT expected more to disagree than actually did.

You sound like my old counselor. He was right and to tell you the truth, I have made huge improvements in this subject since I saw him. I pretty much DO just praise myself and do what I feel I need to do to make the family function.

I have read the book "Boundaries" and live by it almost religiously... no pun intended, I also read the book "Hold onto your NUTs) (Non negotiable Unalterable Terms) and while dificult to actually discover my nuts, has worked wonder for me. 

I'm loving the discussion you all have had since I've been gone, and seems every other post seems to have a question I was thinking of asking, and sure enough, a good discussion answering it or bringing it to light.

Thanks all of you! This is great info and it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this... or better stated, I am hearing the opinions and experience of others!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I think "Boundaries" Amazon.com: Boundaries: When to Say Yes, When to Say No-To Take Control of Your Life (Inspirio/Zondervan Miniature&#133; is one of the BEST books I ever read in my life. I lent it out years ago & never seen it again, have often missed that book on my shelves.


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## Dani (Jul 1, 2010)

wow, I'm sorry. I know women like that too and many were spoiled by their dads and expect the same "things" (whether it be physical expensive things or being waited on) from their husbands. It's wrong and if you want to make the relationship work, you'll probably have to get counseling together. I'm the one who has been the bread winner in our relationship and am out of town a lot due to it. I know he's been unfaithful, spending the hard earned money I've made to take his women out to dinner and who knows what else. Suggestions here?


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

Dani said:


> wow, I'm sorry. I know women like that too and many were spoiled by their dads and expect the same "things" (whether it be physical expensive things or being waited on) from their husbands. It's wrong and if you want to make the relationship work, you'll probably have to get counseling together. I'm the one who has been the bread winner in our relationship and am out of town a lot due to it. I know he's been unfaithful, spending the hard earned money I've made to take his women out to dinner and who knows what else. Suggestions here?


Hell yeah, I have a suggestion Dump that Chump! This is just wrong and you deserve way better than this crap.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Dani said:


> wow, I'm sorry. I know women like that too and many were spoiled by their dads and expect the same "things" (whether it be physical expensive things or being waited on) from their husbands. It's wrong and if you want to make the relationship work, you'll probably have to get counseling together. I'm the one who has been the bread winner in our relationship and am out of town a lot due to it. I know he's been unfaithful, spending the hard earned money I've made to take his women out to dinner and who knows what else. Suggestions here?


Definitely cut him off from your money, at the very least. Give him an 'allowance' if he's too lazy to go out and get his own money. Consider dumping him if you know he's cheating.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

turnera said:


> Definitely cut him off from your money, at the very least. Give him an 'allowance' if he's too lazy to go out and get his own money. Consider dumping him if you know he's cheating.


Kinda interesting response, I would have thought you would of been all for dumping the guy if he is living on her dime and spending it on other women. If it were me no way would I let this guy spend my money on other women at the very least I would cut him off totally , no allowance, make your own money.

Then I would make strict boundaries of what behavior will not be tolerated. She states that she knows he is taking women out on her money not that she thinks he is doing it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, she doesn't sound anywhere NEAR that level. And women typically have a much harder time drawing such a line in the sand. Appeasement and all. She needs to START by doing this and see what develops.


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## Dani (Jul 1, 2010)

I have agreed with both of you at various given times. He does work, it's an hourly job and HE carries the benefits, I'm self employed which makes it tough, esp in this economy. I relate to the original post in that the guy is also obviously in sales and it's draining. Time for yourself is very important to "recharge". Not sure how he's doing it. I'm keeping my eye on the money BIG time now, he was seriously busted so hope that keeps him "honest" (ha) for a bit. Need to know I can survive on my own first... I really appreciate your comments. Just not sure if I care enough any more to make it work. Trust is a tough thing to gain back.


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## janetjbi (Jul 10, 2010)

I do not believe that acts of service should be exploited when it comes to sex especially when it deals with maintaining a home, you people are not children you both are adults. You stated that you make a great deal of money not working a 9 to 5, hire a maid and a nanny and spend quality with your wife and daughter. Did I mention therapy!!!! You never mentioned the type of job that your wife has, after reading the article with my husband, were guessing that your wife works in a bar environment . Your wife is working in an environment where she see's woman and men exploit each other everyday with the use of alcohol, the fact that you stated that chores and sex are related to each other was a big red flag to me. A woman that values her marriage and family is not going to hang out with men and women in bars, no matter how upscale they may be, she is going to find herself home spending quality time with her husband and child. I strongly believe there is more to this story than you are telling, I strongly suggest therapy and setting boundaries. If you wife insist on going out to bars then insist on accompanying her and make your presence known, remind her that you love her and if this is the life style that turns her own, get a babysitter and go out twice a week with just her. If your wife insist on keeping her job because of the money than maybe your income is not as high as you think it is. Obviously your wife enjoys not being a wife and mother when she is away from you, and the sex says to me that there is definitely more to this story. Did I mention marriage counseling?


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## Dani (Jul 1, 2010)

turnera said:


> According to Marriage Builders, we each have our own VALID set of top 5 Emotional Needs, sort of like the love languages. It is our spouse's 'duty' (don't shoot me, I'm speaking philosophically here) to care enough about us to want to MEET those top 5 ENs. If a person needs affirmation as a top EN, then he needs it. Period. We shouldn't be choosing which EN we want to meet for our spouse; we should be loving him enough to want to be the ONE person meeting those ENs - or else someone else may come along and do it for us.


I like what you've said here, will be looking for this "Marriage Builders"..is it a book? Anyone with ideas on how to get my husband to ALSO read books like this. I've had several, bought, library, etc Left them around the house but he doesn't seem to want to make the marriage better. Think he's fooled into thinking it's just fine? Strange after the things we've been through, like he has blinders on?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's a website. Read the stuff, skip the forums. You can't MAKE your husband read anything. 

Not to be rude, but good grief - you leave books around and HOPE that he will read them?

Why don't you just be honest and TELL him the TRUTH?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fwiw, the MB program states that YOU have to change, to get your husband to WANT to please you. It starts with you. Not him.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

Dani said:


> I have agreed with both of you at various given times. He does work, it's an hourly job and HE carries the benefits, I'm self employed which makes it tough, esp in this economy. I relate to the original post in that the guy is also obviously in sales and it's draining. Time for yourself is very important to "recharge". Not sure how he's doing it. I'm keeping my eye on the money BIG time now, he was seriously busted so hope that keeps him "honest" (ha) for a bit. Need to know I can survive on my own first... I really appreciate your comments. Just not sure if I care enough any more to make it work. Trust is a tough thing to gain back.


Well the benefits he provides for a self employed person are HUUUGE.The problem is how do you ever trust someone who betrays you like this, so think about what you want, if you want to try to repair the damage talk to Affaircare thats what she does is help people repair their marriages after affairs damage them


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## LadyOfTheHouse (Jul 9, 2010)

do NOT "withhold and withdraw", and then tell your wife why you're doing so. that's jerky, score-keeping behavior. if you don't like something she's doing or not doing, why not say so BEFORE you get resentful? let her know while you still have the capacity to be sweet about it. a few months from now when you're REALLY fed up, you might just snap and start issuing ultimatums. TELL HER NOW that you feel you're doing more than your fair share, and have some concrete ideas about what you feel is lacking.

DO be a man. if you don't like her going out with single friends in the evenings, SAY SO...after you make sure you've got something more enticing planned for the evening.

you guys need to put your heads together and decide what makes you BOTH happy. obviously you're unhappy; you're felling like a breadwinner AND a domestic slave. but you know what? if she were happy, she'd rather stay home with you than go out...you know what YOU want more of, what could SHE want more of? (and be getting more of from her friends than from you?) you know you're doing your part and then some in the $ and domestic-support/family-commitment department...what needs do you think she's fulfilling by going out w/out you? recreational companionship=hanging out, having fun, spending time w/ people. conversation=making witty small talk, just chatting. admiration=people notice she's pretty, clever, sexy, intriguing, whatever. i'm speculating.

maybe you could try some covert ops: see if YOU can meet those needs so well that not only does she feel so pretty and valued and sexy and clever that she doesn't CARE if the chores are done, she'll even be willing to do them herself. (and maybe throw you some sex already. you KNOW girls have to feel like total princesses before they WANT to have sex--our princess quota can override our physical drive. =)

she;s withholding sex, making demands re $ an honey-do stuff; going out without you....not a happy dynamic. let's get this addressed before she does something stupid.


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## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

turnera said:


> It's a website. Read the stuff, skip the forums. You can't MAKE your husband read anything.
> 
> Not to be rude, but good grief - you leave books around and HOPE that he will read them?
> 
> Why don't you just be honest and TELL him the TRUTH?


+1 without a doubt tell him how unhappy you are and that you are giving him a chance to save the marriage if he doesnt respond...see ya.


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## cjkdad (Jul 6, 2010)

At first sight I was worried about the first few "threadjackings", but along with the great info directed at my original post have come some very useful suggestions (and some not so..) and some very insightful and knowledgeable twists on other peoples problems/issues as well. The jacked thread actually kinda helped me feel a little better as there are clearly people out there with worse problems and longer histories of such than I!

Thanks a lot all!


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

Hunt Brown said:


> what a bunch of babies!
> 
> tracking tasks and keeping score and complaining that the ref is making bad calls and oh, the humanity, how you are so set upon and misused...
> 
> guys, here's the truth of the matter: when you keep score of who's doing what you are laying the foundation of blame and when you blame, you don't have to do anything but point the finger and squeel like the little piggy all the way home.


I agree completely. When I was first married, that was the attitude I had. I was always so afraid of being the loser in some kind of competition. He never did enough to satisfy me. And I was not really trying to satisfy HIM. He got frustrated and tried to satisfy me, but it was such an uphill battle that he had little energy for it.

I went to a usenet group back in the day with the OPs wifes PoV. If he loved me wouldn't he do what I say? I was not so clear that that was my perspective. I used prettier words.

I got my ass handed to me. And the excellent advice I got was to try harder to satisfy HIM than I do to satisfy myself. He was a pig of a housekeeper to be sure. So I looked at it from a practical problem solving position rather than an if he loved me he would ... I sat him down and said I love you. I am not going to nag and pester you anymore. I am not the maid. If I am cooking dinner, of course I am not going to be petty and not cook for you too. If I want a clean bathroom, I will clean the bathroom. But I see no reason why I should do your laundry, clean your closet... Then I proceeded to give him what he said he needed. More time to play and recreate with friends. Freedom from housekeeping nagging, Time in the shop.

Guess what happened? He started to really listen to me when I would ask for his help. I would not nag, I would put him down when he did a chore differently than I did like I used to. He would do the chore. I asked nicely, he felt loved, so he was willing to help out. We created a healthy dynamic of how to talk to each other about our needs.






> in short, fix yourself first. part of what you may need to fix is enabling behavior, part of what you might need to fix is your ability to stand up for yourself without becoming agressivie, part of what you might need to fix is your ability to communicate...


And really, in the final analysis this is all you CAN do. One truth is we simply CANT make someone else change. We can change our behavior in the hopes that it has a desired effect on their behavior. But we cannot make them change. This was the other excellent lesson I have learned over the years.



> but here's the thing you need to remember, you have picked your spouse for very specific reasons, because she will challenge you in the areas that you need to grow, but the peter pan in you, the part that never wants to grow up, resents this constant reminder of growth, and rather than cowboying up to the challenge, sits back, keeps score, and blames.
> 
> if you want to have a better marriage, you need to become a better man. if you think you are already perfect there are plenty of institutions that will tend to your needs while you take your meds.
> 
> ...


The fault blame thing is such a waste of time.


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## Dani (Jul 1, 2010)

Brewster 59 said:


> +1 without a doubt tell him how unhappy you are and that you are giving him a chance to save the marriage if he doesnt respond...see ya.


We have had the discussion at various times over the past 5 years (almost divorced then). The "I feel like we're roommates" discussion over and over. He did counseling saying it was due to his having had testicular cancer 10 yrs before, I also saw that counselor. When we went back together after he was busted, SHE nailed him and he vowed to never go back. I agree with the "not blaming" mentioned here - I could get past this with a little encouragement. I'm out of town for weeks at a time with no idea what he's doing and not trusting now. As I said, I DO watch the money now though. Not sure what I'm looking for here, maybe some prospective. Because he had cancer (and the type) I feel as though I've been doing for "him" for a long time (he's even agreed several times) with not much in return; he always says he'll do better but guess he gets lucky cause about then, I have to leave town for work and it goes back to "the same" roommate situation. He never says "I miss you" he only says "I want you home"... think its more about the housekeeping, cooking and someone to listen to him (he is a talker... not a listener). When I'm home I want (and need) support and slow pace; as the counselor said, we communicate on two very different levels. I'm low key, he's high!! Makes it tough to "talk" about things as he doesn't seem to get it unless I get upset and closer to "his level" and I don't like the way that makes me feel...so.... communication is the big issue, need a mediator I think but ...not likely. Enough for tonight, thank you for your input and "hearing" me ...you're right.


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