# A carrot for the silly wabbit



## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Good morning,

First I would like to say that I have been very impressed with the majority on this board and the feedback they provide to those in need. I have been a passive reader on here for over four months now and now it has come time to post for some opinions.

I am a 41 year old male and my wife will soon be 45. We have been married almost 12 years and we have two children, ages 10 and 8. This is my first marriage and my wife's second. Now onto the subject at hand.

Our frequency of intimacy has always been an issue with me and I finally started communicating my discontent with my wife. Communication is key! I actually kept track last year of the number of times we made love and at the end of the year I told her what it was; 27 times which works out to just over twice a month. After I enlightened her with this so far this year we are on pace for once a week, about twice of what we did last year. For me this is much improved. Could it be more, certainly I would like for it to be but I don't want to be greedy, especially after what I have read on here with others having a sexless marriage.

However, my wife just mentioned to me the other day that she has ordered a vibrator called the "Rabbit". She had one of these in the past and actually wore it out, so she has been without one for several months now. My concern is once this returns our frequency of intimacy will diminish. I plan to see if this becomes the case. She says she needs it in the morning for just a few minutes to get her endorphines going because she has problematic back pain that this seems to help alleviate. I've told her that I would be more than happy to get her off in the mornings if she'd let me but she apparently doesn't like the amount of time it would take me to do it. I don't need to "get off" either; I have no problem satisfying her and then calling it a day, but I would hope that she would reciprocate at a later time. I get get her to orgasm after several minutes of manipulation but I guess this is too long. She has told me in the past that sometimes she would just like to have sex and not participate in longer love-making sessions. I admit I like to do a lot of foreplay and when I'm running the show (which is 95% of the time), our sessions will last over one hour. Maybe this is too long for her since she works 55-60 hours per week. I've been working only 30 hours per week since the end of January but I also do the bulk of the cleaning, cooking, and night time duties with the kids, so I have been picking up where she has left off, all part of the partnership of being a good spouse and father. I have no complaints with doing that.

I have so much more I could write about but I will leave that for another time. I would be interested in your thoughts and I thank you in advance!


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## DownButNotOut (Apr 9, 2009)

Did you offer to be the one to use the rabbit on her?


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

I knew I would get a few quick replies and I appreciate them, especially when they come from a woman's perspective. Mommy22, you have hit the nail on the head. To me intimacy is not just about "getting off" or the physical aspect, it is the one single way in which I connect with my wife on an emotional level. After all, a man's orgasm only lasts for about 10 seconds, so an hour's worth of "work" for 10 seconds of ecstacy really means that I'm not in it just for the orgasm. I am very fullfilled, especially after I can make her feel good, the saying there is more joy in giving than in receiving holds true here for me to be quite honest. We have had some sexual conversations but we both tend to be pretty conventional people. We are missionary-in-the-bed-at-night types. I'm not one to get too wild and neither is she and I think we are OK with that. I do like a lot of foreplay and I like satisfying her orally, but she does not reciprocate and most of the time I don't really care either, as long as I can get some intimacy with her and reaffirm the emotional connection.

I have actually used the rabbit on her in the past but to be hoenst with you I felt like I was having to "compete" with it. There is no way I'm going to compete with that thing!! The one thing my rabbit has that hers doesn't is a soul attached to it, and to me that is a huge difference, but perhaps I'm being too sensitive to the notion.

Any how, I do intend to talk with her about it some more, she certainly isn't ashamed of it or her physical needs in that regard, so that is a plus. She also does not tend to be defensive when I broach the subject either, another plus in my book.


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

M22,

This is actually what I do. I stimulate her to basically her first and sometimes second orgasm and then I finish with vaginal intercourse. She seldom has an orgasm with genital vaginal intercourse but it doesn't take me long to finish by this method (ususally just 5 minutes, maybe 10 if I try to control it). Our discussions aren't usually this frank, when I say that we communicate it is usually only to address a problem and often not in graphic detail. I suspect most married couples are the same way which is why there are so many poeple on here with issues. If spouses could converse with each other as frankly as total internet strangers like ourselves do, we could probably avert much heartache and resentment. A valuable lesson for us all to learn I believe...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Is she open to oral? I never asked a woman how getting oral compares to a vibrator, I bet some like it better. 

Just a thought. 

Either way, oral, manual - she can show you the "perfect" way to do it to "her", by demonstrating on one of your nipples. It is a game - called "I touch you touch" where someone teaches you what THEY want, by doing it to you first. 








Mattie J said:


> M22,
> 
> This is actually what I do. I stimulate her to basically her first and sometimes second orgasm and then I finish with vaginal intercourse. She seldom has an orgasm with genital vaginal intercourse but it doesn't take me long to finish by this method (ususally just 5 minutes, maybe 10 if I try to control it). Our discussions aren't usually this frank, when I say that we communicate it is usually only to address a problem and often not in graphic detail. I suspect most married couples are the same way which is why there are so many poeple on here with issues. If spouses could converse with each other as frankly as total internet strangers like ourselves do, we could probably avert much heartache and resentment. A valuable lesson for us all to learn I believe...


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## mike1 (Jun 15, 2009)

If you're unhappy with the frequency of sex and she's getting off regularly by using a vibrator I don't think that's fair at all. 

If I were in your position I would be extremely upset about the situation. If she's satisfying herself with the vibrator then it lowers her motivation to want sex with you. I think your concerns are very justified. I'm not sure of the wording you want to use but I think it's very reasonable to have a conversation with her about it and let her know that you want more sex and that if she's getting the satisfaction she needs with the rabbit she's not going to desire sex with you as much. 

Now my wife has a small vibrator as well but we incorporate that with sex sometimes but she rarely uses it without it being a part of our sex play. Have you considered using it while you're having sex or as part of your foreplay? Maybe you could offer a quickie in the AM instead of it being a full hour production? My wife is in that category where I would love for our love making sessions to go 30, 60 minutes or more but she isn't into that at all. I'm willing and happy to spend a lot of time with foreplay, etc but she wants to get to the main event very quickly. Usually it only last 10 minutes total. 

Now if your wife has expressed not wanting to spend that much time each time you have sex then maybe she would have more sex if it wasn't the big production every time? Writing this response and considering the situation makes me think that perhaps you could resolve a lot if you found a way to give her more what she wants (shorter love making sessions). She can get off quickly with her rabbit and you wouldn't have to have an extended love making session. 

good luck!


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

You guys continue to amaze me with your candor and accuracy! Interesting point MEM about the oral, oddly enough (at least to me) she does not like me to perform oral on her unless she is in the "right frame of mind". I don't know about you all, but I would be shocked to hear that come from men! I do it when I can but I don't ever force the issue. I guess she may just be self-conscious about it or something, although she has no reason to be at least from my vantage point.

The toys arrived yesterday and she opened them up last night while we were in bed. I did tell her that I likend the idea to me getting one of those "fleshlights" or other female repoductive gizmo because she just wasn't doing it for me or she was too dry or too lose (all of which she isn't). I asked her how she would feel and it didn't seem to bother her in the least. She said that most men masturbate and I agreed that from time to time that was the case, but to have two married people in the same bed with obviously the same physical needs shouldn't be masturbating themselves, it just doesn't make any sense to me. In any event, I did tell her that I was at least encouraged that she still had a desir eto have SOMETHING inside her, but I would prefer it to be me than one of these contraptions. If she want sto include it in one of our love-making sessions then I'm open to that, I just don't want to be replaced.

Mike1, I agree with you as well. I told her now that this thing has entered the bedroom I'm going to see if it affects the number of times we do it. I don't want to be a pessimist and I like to think of myself as not, so perhaps the frequency will increase, we'll just have to see. Again, the fact that her interest in being aroused is strong is encouraging to me. We may be trying these things out this weekend, I'll let you know. Last night there was no action despite the sexually-charged conversation, but I was OK with that. I was one of the rare old-fashioned guys out there that remained a virgin until marriage (age 29), so I have always been pretty good at keeping my hormones in check.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is like baking a really good german chocolate cake. 

Do you guys work out? If so, this is the recipe, if not come up with your own variant.

1. Eat a healthy dinner at 6
2. Both of you workout at 7:30/8:00 for a half hour - hard cardio workout
3. Come home take a nice shower and have 2 glasses of wine - no food 
4. She gets in bed with the wabbit - while you watch tv in another room - she ONLY use wabbit to warm up once she is warm she gives a yell and you come in
5. You finish her however she likes 

The combo of the workout endorphins and a little alcohol is amazing, and the shower makes people less inhibited....

On a separate note just keep something important in mind. If you work really hard at making your spouse happy, while at the same time they are showing true indifference to YOUR happiness, you are sending a very bad message to them which is that you don't see yourself as an "equal" in the marriage. If you do that long enough, you WILL get treated badly. Hormone control means you don't cheat, it doesn't mean that you let your wife starve you of sex - which really for a man means starve you of love. 











Mattie J said:


> You guys continue to amaze me with your candor and accuracy! Interesting point MEM about the oral, oddly enough (at least to me) she does not like me to perform oral on her unless she is in the "right frame of mind". I don't know about you all, but I would be shocked to hear that come from men! I do it when I can but I don't ever force the issue. I guess she may just be self-conscious about it or something, although she has no reason to be at least from my vantage point.
> 
> The toys arrived yesterday and she opened them up last night while we were in bed. I did tell her that I likend the idea to me getting one of those "fleshlights" or other female repoductive gizmo because she just wasn't doing it for me or she was too dry or too lose (all of which she isn't). I asked her how she would feel and it didn't seem to bother her in the least. She said that most men masturbate and I agreed that from time to time that was the case, but to have two married people in the same bed with obviously the same physical needs shouldn't be masturbating themselves, it just doesn't make any sense to me. In any event, I did tell her that I was at least encouraged that she still had a desir eto have SOMETHING inside her, but I would prefer it to be me than one of these contraptions. If she want sto include it in one of our love-making sessions then I'm open to that, I just don't want to be replaced.
> 
> Mike1, I agree with you as well. I told her now that this thing has entered the bedroom I'm going to see if it affects the number of times we do it. I don't want to be a pessimist and I like to think of myself as not, so perhaps the frequency will increase, we'll just have to see. Again, the fact that her interest in being aroused is strong is encouraging to me. We may be trying these things out this weekend, I'll let you know. Last night there was no action despite the sexually-charged conversation, but I was OK with that. I was one of the rare old-fashioned guys out there that remained a virgin until marriage (age 29), so I have always been pretty good at keeping my hormones in check.


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Amen Mem! Your last statement is profound! I think a lot of women (and I don't mean the ones on here because they are tuned in and conscious of their and our needs) don't think men equate sex with love. There have been several occasions when I have made love to my wife and made sure she had an orgasm and I did not. She often would be apologetic about it but I would tell her that it wasn't her fault or even a problem. I do get more satisfaction in getting her off than getting me off. The act makes me just feel so much closer to her, we "connect" on an almost spiritual level, as it was designed to be. This may sound corny to some but again, I suspect most men on here would aree with us. Anyone on this forum has a heightened consciousness about their physical relationship and what it really means to us. To be rejected by saying "I'm too tired", "My back hurts", etc. can quickly lead to resentment if not kept in check. I realize women do have a lot going on and we do need to be sensitive to these parameters, but women likewise need to understand that it isn't just about "getting off" for a man. We can do that very quickly almost on cue if we so chose, but it isn't the same. I'm hoping that the rabbit creates a similar reaction; it may feel great for a fleeting moment, but should not be the same as becoming one with your husband.

I think I will try your suggestion at some point in the near future. I am a runner and I know what the runner's high is like, it's almost as good as sex, but not quite. I'm in better shape than my wife but she is working on it. Nothing about her turns me off physically and I feel the reverse is also true. I know she complains about my breathe from time to time so I'm trying to pay more attention to that. I think a woman's sense of smell can have a huge impact on her "mood" and can fire it up or extinguish it quickly.

Thanks again Mem!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

My wife has a keen sense of smell. I never eat anything with any amount of garlic unless she is with me and has agreed to eat some also. And this is not just - oh I want to get lucky tonight so I won't eat "x". Every night we are close, almost every night we snuggle and for sure we share a bed. So sex aside I am careful about my breath. I always brush my teeth just before getting in bed to be amorous - but in general I brush my teeth when we are going to be close. 

Running is great. Do you lift? Lifting raises testosterone levels. For me this makes me more aggressive - not jerky aggresive - MALE aggressive. I have more of an "edge" and feel more confident. And wife has told me she loves the "boxer/gymnast" look. 

In my marriage my wife and I both believe that sex is a marital "obligation". That makes a big difference. 





Mattie J said:


> Amen Mem! Your last statement is profound! I think a lot of women (and I don't mean the ones on here because they are tuned in and conscious of their and our needs) don't think men equate sex with love. There have been several occasions when I have made love to my wife and made sure she had an orgasm and I did not. She often would be apologetic about it but I would tell her that it wasn't her fault or even a problem. I do get more satisfaction in getting her off than getting me off. The act makes me just feel so much closer to her, we "connect" on an almost spiritual level, as it was designed to be. This may sound corny to some but again, I suspect most men on here would aree with us. Anyone on this forum has a heightened consciousness about their physical relationship and what it really means to us. To be rejected by saying "I'm too tired", "My back hurts", etc. can quickly lead to resentment if not kept in check. I realize women do have a lot going on and we do need to be sensitive to these parameters, but women likewise need to understand that it isn't just about "getting off" for a man. We can do that very quickly almost on cue if we so chose, but it isn't the same. I'm hoping that the rabbit creates a similar reaction; it may feel great for a fleeting moment, but should not be the same as becoming one with your husband.
> 
> I think I will try your suggestion at some point in the near future. I am a runner and I know what the runner's high is like, it's almost as good as sex, but not quite. I'm in better shape than my wife but she is working on it. Nothing about her turns me off physically and I feel the reverse is also true. I know she complains about my breathe from time to time so I'm trying to pay more attention to that. I think a woman's sense of smell can have a huge impact on her "mood" and can fire it up or extinguish it quickly.
> 
> Thanks again Mem!


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Hey Mem,

No, I do not lift weights but I consider myself a pretty fit guy, 6'-2" and 215 lbs and very active, not only with running (I've run 2 marathons) but doing heavy labor type work around the house. I don't have a "6-pack" or anything like that but I'm not a jelly belly either. What would concern me about producing more testosterone would be that I could potentially become more frustrated. Although I agree with you that I think most women have more respect for men who take charge, take what they want when they want it. Agressive behavior if that's what you mean by being agressive. I have been known to do this in the past however I initiate intimacy 95% of the time and quite honestly, I would like for her to do that more often.

Just this morning, here we are having a long weekend, laying in bed. I rubbed her back for a few moments, we talked, we layed some more, and finally I decided to get up and go for a run. Anyway, when I returned the bedroom door was closed (very unusual) and when I came in she was getting ready to take a shower and I notice the "rabbit" had been unpackaged, so "rabbit" 1, husband 0 for the weekend. I'm going to talk to her tonight about it because I feel that I should get right of first refusal. If I don't feel like getting her off (which will NEVER happen), then she can turn to that thing if she must, but I don't want to be replaced by it. This was my initial concern and why I posted here to get some other opinions. Again, I know communication is key, but she does tend to get defensive and states that I might be depressed when I bring these things up. For whatever reason she just is not the most sympathetic listener in the world.

I like the philosophy you have with your wife concerning intimacy, it sounds very healthy. It just takes work and communication, I realize that and I intend to work on it. Hopefully I can at least even the score before the long weekend is over...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

That makes perfect sense. 

I understand the bit about initiating. Our compromise on it is that I accept having to initiate most/almost all the time. And she will not reject me unless there is a very good reason. Even then, I get a sincere promise for "tomorrow". But we weren't always there. 

I will relate a very painful memory I have from a beach vacation more then 5 years ago. We wake up in bed. I have my back to her - not mad just how I slept that night. We hadn't had sex in a couple days - and she KNOWS I am fidgety - FCS - all those females in bikinis for a couple days in a row - so she starts scratching my back. I am motionless waiting for her to do this thing she does - when she wants me to know that she is good to go - she touches my innner thigh - briefly - I make the expected sound and then we go from there. Except she is not touching my inner thigh. I am getting more and more angry. Finally I get up to take a shower, blood pressure is more then double normal - seriously I can hear the blood pounding in my ears. As I go to open the door to the bathroom she says - "do you want to - you know"? And I am just barely, barely able to be polite and say "sure". I get back in bed. We have sex and then go about our day. And I am thinking - she KNEW how much I wanted it, why did she have to wait until I was obviously livid to bring it up? I have never asked her that. I never will. She probably didn't really want to that morning for some reason. And I really would have been ok with that if she had said in a nice sympathetic voice - "I know you are in pain right now and have a serious need, but is there any way that we can wait until .... tonight/tomorrow morning...something specific though so I could look forward to it and not feel blown off". Actually - and this is the real deal, if she had done that, and said "as a consolation prize let me give you a nice massage this morning", I would have felt more loved, more relaxed, and better about the whole situation. So:

Kind words + some physical effort (back massage) + promise of specific schedule for sex = ok with me

Pretending to ignore my desire until it is obvious I am really angry, then playing dumb about why and offering sex to avoid conflict = I will tolerate having my sexual tension released but I feel totally jerked around before, during and after the sex


Normally we can talk about things like this, but that morning I was so close to erupting in total fury for feeling that my needs were being totally ignored that I literally was afraid to speak." 






Mattie J said:


> Hey Mem,
> 
> No, I do not lift weights but I consider myself a pretty fit guy, 6'-2" and 215 lbs and very active, not only with running (I've run 2 marathons) but doing heavy labor type work around the house. I don't have a "6-pack" or anything like that but I'm not a jelly belly either. What would concern me about producing more testosterone would be that I could potentially become more frustrated. Although I agree with you that I think most women have more respect for men who take charge, take what they want when they want it. Agressive behavior if that's what you mean by being agressive. I have been known to do this in the past however I initiate intimacy 95% of the time and quite honestly, I would like for her to do that more often.
> 
> ...


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Mem,

I appreciate you relating that experience to me. If our women only knew how sensitive their medieval SOB husbands can really be I think they would be amazed! I can't help but think however that a few women would interpret this as a sign of weakness, and apparently that can turn them off.

I laid awake in bed for quite a while last night waiting to see if she would initiate but she did not, and this was after her encounter with her toy that morning. I was so irritated that instead of confronting her last night about it I just went upstairs and "slept" in the guest bedroom. I didn't sleep much, just stewed about the situation. I didn't want to get her upset last night so that she could at least get some sleep.

More to come...

What brought you to this forum in the first place, Mem?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

What brought me here is this. Even though we have never had a "frequency" issue, sex has been the biggest single source of pain, conflict and hurt in our marriage. 

Just because my wife almost always "did" have sex with me when I wanted, doesn't mean she didn't feel resentful about it on a regular basis, didn't feel "used" some nights. And that was wrong of me. 

And her lack of understanding of what I "really" wanted was wrong of her. She simply was unable to be decent and considerate about how much her indifference hurt. Like the story of the beach morning - sure that is an extreme case, but the truth is my wife really truly believed for years 1-18 that my goal was to have a killer orgasm. LOL. If she had just realized my goal was to feel really loved, we could have had sex less often, she could have replaced sex with compassion on many nights, and that would have been that. Don't get me wrong there is a balance here. There needs to be a compromise when drives are so mismatched. And compassion does not equal empty words. Compassion generally is some combination of commitment - like I will rock your world tomorrow - and maybe a nice gesture for tonight - can I give you a quick 10 minute back massage to help you fall asleep? 


Sadly - from all my reading on this forum and others like it I end up with very simple advice for the sexually starved spouse. If you allow your spouse to keep the upper hand in the marriage, and allow that to translate into their total control of sexual frequency, you are lost. So my advice tends to be:
- Gain the upper hand (sadly this often involves applying pressure up to and including threatening ending the relationship)
- Learn what it is that really turns your spouse on/off out of bed
- And what is it that does it for them "in bed"
- And then come to a compromise frequency that you are both ok with, and show them the compassion that they rarely show us when they are in distress about how things are going in the bedroom. 

I will leave you with one last thought. With regard to getting your wife to be "open" with you about her desires - you may find that she stonewalls you. Over the years my wife was the one who gradually "broadened" the stuff we do - apparently I am high drive but low imagination. But that isn't really how it is at all. She just has the courage to push the envelope. I don't. I am afraid to say - how about if we did - this or that - because what if that shocked her or turned her off? This type of fear is very, very deep rooted and hard to overcome. 













Mattie J said:


> Mem,
> 
> I appreciate you relating that experience to me. If our women only knew how sensitive their medieval SOB husbands can really be I think they would be amazed! I can't help but think however that a few women would interpret this as a sign of weakness, and apparently that can turn them off.
> 
> ...


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## Not Me Oh (Apr 20, 2009)

MEM - thanks for sharing why you are here...sounds a lot like how I feel / how "we" got to where we are at today as a couple


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks again Mem for the feedback. Although we've been married nearly 12 years I still feel that I've got alot to learn as a husband. I think I've mastered the art of being a father to my two girls, but I've definitely come up short in the husband department. My wife and I had a cleansing conversation this morning and she even threw out the rabbit (which I later went back and rescued!) and told her that the rabbit wasn't the cause of this dilemma, but that it was a symptom of something deeper. We covered a lot of ground and made some progress. One interesting thing that I learned is that women do not necessarily enjoy the same sort of stimulation that men do. She is VERY uncomfortable with me doing anything orally because she has a slight incontinence issue which will be addressed at the end of the year with a surgical procedure. Again, it's a minor thing and she has never had an accident in bed, but she is extremely self conscious about it and of course it made her very uncomfortable when I was doing my thing. Just taking that off the plate should ease her mind tremendously! I think setting realistic expectations of frequency will likewise take the pressure off of the "will he or won't he" or "will she or won't she" game laying there in bed. If we set the schedule and abide by it that will make things much easier. And everything will only improve with practice, practice, practice. I will miss doing the oral thing but I will honestly feel a lot better knowing she's more relaxed and actually enjoying it. I can live with no oral far better than living with no intimacy.

I also made it clear that I have no problem using the rabbit as a supplemental aid to intimacy, but that I don't want it to be a replacement for it. We'll see how that goes. I realize by pulling the rabbit out of the hat that the responsibility. I told her that I didn't want to take even a moment of ecstacy away from her, so hopefully she will treat me with the same consideration.

Enjoy what's left of the holiday weekend and I will be sure to keep you posted. It truly all boils down to communication folks but likewise an open ear and mind to what's being conveyed. I'm sure many marriages fail because the lines of communication become severed or were never established in the first place.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mattie - that is really great. That type of open communication is so good for a marriage and often just doesn't happen because it is scary to one or both. Good for you. 

Funny coincidence on this subject. Because I have been gently pressing my wife to let me please her with oral. She let me do that all the time until the birth of our second child a LONG time ago at which point she got self conscious about something. I think I helped her understand how much I want to please her when I said, my birthday is in January, and what I want for my birthday sex is for you to let me please you. She looked really surprised and then thoughtful. I think she is still trying to digest the idea that I love pleasing her, always have and that I have felt bad for a long time that she does this for me, and is not agreeable to me reciprocating. 

I LOVE my wife but she sure is complicated 






Mattie J said:


> Thanks again Mem for the feedback. Although we've been married nearly 12 years I still feel that I've got alot to learn as a husband. I think I've mastered the art of being a father to my two girls, but I've definitely come up short in the husband department. My wife and I had a cleansing conversation this morning and she even threw out the rabbit (which I later went back and rescued!) and told her that the rabbit wasn't the cause of this dilemma, but that it was a symptom of something deeper. We covered a lot of ground and made some progress. One interesting thing that I learned is that women do not necessarily enjoy the same sort of stimulation that men do. She is VERY uncomfortable with me doing anything orally because she has a slight incontinence issue which will be addressed at the end of the year with a surgical procedure. Again, it's a minor thing and she has never had an accident in bed, but she is extremely self conscious about it and of course it made her very uncomfortable when I was doing my thing. Just taking that off the plate should ease her mind tremendously! I think setting realistic expectations of frequency will likewise take the pressure off of the "will he or won't he" or "will she or won't she" game laying there in bed. If we set the schedule and abide by it that will make things much easier. And everything will only improve with practice, practice, practice. I will miss doing the oral thing but I will honestly feel a lot better knowing she's more relaxed and actually enjoying it. I can live with no oral far better than living with no intimacy.
> 
> I also made it clear that I have no problem using the rabbit as a supplemental aid to intimacy, but that I don't want it to be a replacement for it. We'll see how that goes. I realize by pulling the rabbit out of the hat that the responsibility. I told her that I didn't want to take even a moment of ecstacy away from her, so hopefully she will treat me with the same consideration.
> 
> Enjoy what's left of the holiday weekend and I will be sure to keep you posted. It truly all boils down to communication folks but likewise an open ear and mind to what's being conveyed. I'm sure many marriages fail because the lines of communication become severed or were never established in the first place.


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Hey Mem,

My birthday is also in January, good luck with the scheduled excursion south of the border!

My wife demonstrated the rabbit for me last night and although I found it exciting for her to show me, it was *very* undramatic. As she stated, it only took a few minutes but there was no explosive orgasm involved whatsoever. In fact I wouldn't even have known that she had one if she didn't tell me. Apparently the device only gets her buzzing and that's all. Afterwards we had what I would consider a quickie (30 minutes) and everything was fine. I told her I wouldn't go down on her anymore until she was comfortable with it and I think that relieved a lot of tension with her. I also candidly discussed frequency with her and we agreed that we would have more "quickies" during the week and then my normal sessions on the weekends. I think we are going to start with twice a week and see where it goes from there. I'm really quite satisfied with that and depending on how it goes it could develop into more times now that we have openly discussed our issues. I will allow her to use her rabbit if need be in the morning and she understands clearly that I do not want it to interfere with our intimacy. Again, I was unimpressed with her reaction to that thing and I don't think she was BS'ing me. I feel much better now knowing that I get a more animated reaction out of her.

Interesting that your wife is into performing orally on you but she doesn't like it reciprocated. You're right, women are very complex machines! My wife is not opposed to doing that, but she rarely does. I don't push it since it's not a priority with me either, although it always feels good when it's done. There's just something very erotic and personal about someone demonstrating their love and trust by doing it and I guess that's what I find so stimulating about it. It seems my wife did enjoy it when I did it to her but I'm looking forward to doing it only when she no longer has any inhibitions about it.

Have a great day!


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

I am glad that you have had the conversation about the rabbit and the oral... great to see that. I have a few words about the rabbit and position choice. First the position choice... Yes, women are not stimulated the same as men for sure... especially in the missionary position. Since you stated you both are fairly conservative in bed... flip over, both of you and do the same thing but with HER on top. Not with her sitting up on you but laying down... call it the woman/female missionary if you must. It is the easiest way for a woman to O during intercourse. I was shocked that my sexually way experienced husband had never been with a woman who wanted this... perhaps women dont know. I was lucky enough to have found this position years and years ago by accident. Its noting shocking, you can still have eye contact and full body contact... she needs to do more of the work, but that is half of what will get her to O! See how she feels about the female missionary and that you read it was amazing for women's pleasure. It may not happen right away, mine did the second time I tried it. I should contact that ex boyfriend and thank him!

Ok, now the rabbit. It is as was stated by another poster, an unnatural type of stimulation... a human cannot replicate it. If used enough, it will desensitize her ability to enjoy manual and sexual stimulation... she will find she needs the vibration. It should only be used on nights when you cant or dont want to (which as I read, will be few and far between)... or an occassional mutual [email protected]*( party for 2. It can be very hot to get yourselves off together... my husband and I did that the second night after we bought the rabbit... he was on his knees above me and I was laying on my back, my legs between his. He then got to do the "necklace thing" it was awesome... but not something to do every night. Maintain total eye contact as much as you can and its incredible. I will not put it inside as its too intense that it hurts... and this way wont stretch anything out or desensitize as much. 

Hope that helps.


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Choose2Love,

Thank you for the advice! Again, this forum is such a fantastic resource because you can have anonymous, and very candid conversations with total strangers that you would never just discuss in person, often times not even to close personal friends. The advice is real-world tested and proven and the individuals on here are serious about their relationships. I guess I over-stated a little bit when I said we are conservative missionary-only types. She does get on top but I don't think we've tried the female missionary, we'll have to give that a whirl. She also likes it doggy style but we have never done anal. I suppose that would involve an entirely new thread. I've never been that curious about it although my wife has stated that she would like to try it once sometime, more out of curiousity than anything else. I know some people have a real adversion to it and I repsect that. Technically she wasn't designed for that and some would consider it perverse. I'm fairly open minded about it and if she would like to do it I am willing to try. But I digress...

Communication again is the key. I know you have tried and your situation is pretty extreme in my mind as far as the mental state your husband is in with you. I commented on your thread earlier. I hope he will at least listen to what you have to say and your relationship hopefully is worth fighting for.

Thanks again for the advice. Yourself and Mem are very active and helpful on here, I hope that I can return the favor sometime to others as well.


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Mem, you and I are like soulmates! You and I are going through the same thing with our respective spouses. The main difference is this is my second marriage and I am less willing to take the bs that is being doled out to me. My first marriage I had a soft spot for my ex sexually bc he had ED, and we had to do it certain ways... I was ok with that for 98% of the marriage, believe it or not. Lack of sex did not end that marriage, his rude behavior in general to anyone and especailly a few life threatening situations ended it... and seeing my son acting just like him.

Mattie J, hope it continues in the right direction for you. If she wants anal enough to state it to you, then give it a go... not bad a for a few times... long term maybe not great as it will stretch things out back there and I have heard about it leading to some leakage later on in life if done for a long time... but it actually does feel great once you get past the initial ouch factor. I have only done this with my current husband, and always considered myself one of the women who would never do this, ever.


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## CarolineMRF (Sep 2, 2009)

If any woman is considering anal sex as is being discussed in this thread, be aware of prolapse...Muscles can be weakened and hernias may occur......


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## Choose2love (Jul 28, 2009)

Absolutely Caroline! You can also tear and bleed... Once someone told me about the leakage in older age... I was done. I dont want to be walking around with a butt diaper


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

CarolineMRF,

I agree with you. I don't want this thread to turn into an anal sex thread, I only mentioned it because when I stated that my wife and I like to do it doggy style I just wanted to be clear that it is still vaginal and not anal. I guess there are some men out there that have a longing for that type of sex but I for one have never had a real interest in it. Funny but true story: I have only had one girlfriend besides my wife and I didn't meet my first girlfriend until I was 21 and she was 18. We dated for 6 years and although we fooled around, we never had genital intercourse. I told her I wanted to remain a virgin until marriage and she used to beg me to do it with her, even stating once that we could have anal sex because technically I would still be a virgin! Funny stuff! Needless to say, I did not appease her! I guess the things that we did do would possibly not equate to me remaining a virgin, I don't know. I was and still am naive in some ways when it comes to intimacy, even at 41!


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## Raiven (Sep 14, 2009)

i had a vibrator that i loved (it recently died....it was overloved...) and i would use it in the afternoons when nobody was home because, for one, it was the only way i could achieve orgasm. but that was it. i used it to have an orgasm, i had one in 5 minutes or less and that was it. 

it NEVER replaced intimacy for me. when i am in the mood (which happens reguardless of prior ' toy playtime' or not) i want my husband and his body. it was stated before, it's not natural. women usually 'need' a warm body, a lover, the smell of another, etc. at some point. 

even if i used my toy i still craved actual sex. there's no comparison.

sometimes i was just in the mood for a toy, just like sometimes guys just like to service themselves every now and then and it [shouldnt] get in the way of sex with a partner.

if it becomes a problem, talk to her about it.



-R-


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## Mattie J (Sep 1, 2009)

Raiven,

I appreciate your input. I can make my wife have an orgasm however it usually takes me a while and she has admitted that she sometimes just wants a "quickie". Funny enough, I'm not a "quickie" kind of a guy plus I know if we do that she won't have an orgasm.

I think in your case you should show your husband how to do things so you can experience one with him. I think if women in genereal were a bit more vocal in the bedroom not only would they be more satisfied but their men would be too. I know I don't enjoy intimacy nearly as much if I know that my wife hasn't been fully pleasured. Goes back to that "more joy in giving than in receiving" thing...


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