# Is she still playing me and having an EA/PA?



## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

About 3 years ago my Wife went into a really bad EA with a guy at work. For this time and up until about 6 months ago she never showed any interest in sex at all. She would talk about us changing our sex habits and being more intimate but whenever I would initiate she would come up with the tired excuse. Well about 5 months ago I decided to join facebook and naturally she was one of my first friends. Well I decided to just look for her AP and there he was in the search results, but wait! It stated we had 1 mutual friend. She had told me she blocked and removed him from her friend list and showed me this many times. I immediately brought this up to her and within about 10 minutes when searching for him again it did not show any mutual friends. Am I still being played a fool and she’s still involved with him but it’s just underground? My gut is telling me so but I’ve used the pen VAR in her purse, a VAR in her car under the seat, GPS tracking and they have all turned up negative. Needless to say I have zero desire for her sexually since this happened and she is starting to say she feels unattractive to me since I never want her. How can I when this is still possibly going on???!?!


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

She is probably fantasizing about the OM which means her attention is focused on him but is blame-shifting the relationship problems to you. This is her trying to rationalize wanting to have an A (working under the assumption that its in the early stages). To cross the line to have an A, they have to feel that the BS somehow deserves it which starts by blaming the BS for all their problems. 

If it is early best bet would be counselling ASAP before things get too far.

Keep looking to make sure she just is just good at hiding things.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Don't forget since they are co-workers there is so much they have access to that you don't (which is why we always say they need to find a new job away from the AP). Besides the empty offices and conference room, they have internal communications systems and he has a car too, which she probably wouldn't take her purse with her when she went to it (if she did). 

I find it odd that if she was so quick to delete the friend connection in FB, that he wouldn't want to know why (so I bet that she has some other way to let him know why she did it).

Trust your gut, it generally is right in these situations.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

It sounds like she went underground....time to play hard ball


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Don't forget since they are co-workers there is so much they have access to that you don't (which is why we always say they need to find a new job away from the AP). Besides the empty offices and conference room, they have internal communications systems and he has a car too, which she probably wouldn't take her purse with her when she went to it (if she did).
> 
> I find it odd that if she was so quick to delete the friend connection in FB, that he wouldn't want to know why (so I bet that she has some other way to let him know why she did it).
> 
> Trust your gut, it generally is right in these situations.


That's the funny part, she swears up and down that she wasn't friends with him and that he must have still had her on his friends list. I think she is playing me on my lack of Facebook knowledge here....

Then when I told her it was pretty odd that the "mutual friends" message went away as soon as I mentioned something to her she said that she doesn't know why that happened.


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## HubbyDaddy2013 (Jul 2, 2013)

Regardless of whether she is having an affair right now or not...If My Wife and I did not have Sex for 6 whole months, AND it's not due to one of us being in bad physical health (Can't have sex due to a health issue) ....THEN I would tell her it is time for Marriage Counseling. If she didn't go to Marriage counseling, then it's time for a Divorce. ...You can't make a marriage work without Sex. 6 Months is about 4 months too long to go without any sex at all!


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## DoktorFun (Feb 25, 2014)

helplessguy82 said:


> That's the funny part, she swears up and down that she wasn't friends with him and that he must have still had her on his friends list. I think she is playing me on my lack of Facebook knowledge here....
> 
> Then when I told her it was pretty odd that the "mutual friends" message went away as soon as I mentioned something to her *she said that she doesn't know why that happened.*



*^Give me a break... * :lol:


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

REALITY: If you feel your being 'played' then you are being 'played'


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

I think the worst part about all of it is I just don't care about the sex anymore as I have zero drive left. We went to MC for about 1 year, and I currently go to IC. I had no idea that being rejected for so long can actually turn your drive completely off which is what my counselor says most likely happened to me.

Well that, and the part that since the VAR's, GPS, and keyloggers still don't turn anything up I Just ignore the little things like this and just do my projects at home, and work.

By the way, she's 29 and I'm 27...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the worst part about all of it is I just don't care about the sex anymore as I have zero drive left. We went to MC for about 1 year, and I currently go to IC. I had no idea that being rejected for so long can actually turn your drive completely off which is what my counselor says most likely happened to me.
> 
> Well that, and the part that since the VAR's, GPS, and keyloggers still don't turn anything up I Just ignore the little things like this and just do my projects at home, and work.
> 
> By the way, she's 29 and I'm 27...


Any kids?


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Any kids?


No sir!

Nice avatar, I love John Candy by the way.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

at 29 no desire? maybe----
her at 27 nethear?------ naaaaaaaa i dont beleive in coincidence


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

jack.c said:


> at 29 no desire? maybe----
> her at 27 nethear?------ naaaaaaaa i dont beleive in coincidence


Well she has been coming onto me lately but I have zero desire for her. I know it's because of the doubt I still have regarding her and the OM.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

helplessguy82 said:


> That's the funny part, she swears up and down that she wasn't friends with him and that he must have still had her on his friends list. I think she is playing me on my lack of Facebook knowledge here....


No, he wouldn't show up as a mutual friend if she actually deleted him. I just tested it with my wife's account she is lying. I unfriended my wife, which removed her name from my profile. I checked her account and I do not show up on her list either. The only way for you to get the "mutual friend" message is if they were still friends. She is lying.


> Then when I told her it was pretty odd that the "mutual friends" message went away as soon as I mentioned something to her she said that she doesn't know why that happened.


See last sentence above.

EDIT:

Sorry, I read it quickly, just to make sure was your wife the mutual friend?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

helplessguy82 said:


> No sir!
> 
> Nice avatar, I love John Candy by the way.


Thanks. He was -- nay, is! -- the man.

As for your predicament...

Divorce. You've got no kids and she's already proven herself to be untrustworthy. Why stick around?

She started an EA 3 years ago and up until 6 months ago, she wasn't interested in sex w/ you? Brother, that's not an EA -- that's a 2 1/2 year EA/PA. If she started warming to the idea of sex w/ you 6 months ago, he probably dumped her around that time. If not, they may have just taken it underground. Is he married? If so, his wife may have found out about their relationship.

Now, if you don't want to go there, some things have to change...

1. She has to go NC (no contact) w/ this guy -- hard, immediately, and forever. If that means changing jobs, then so be it.

2. She needs to agree to complete and total transparency with regard to any passwords for all devices (phones, tablets, computers, etc) and all social media accounts. Take regular backups of her phone. What kind of phone does she have?

3. Marriage counseling may be a good idea.

4. You need a complete and accurate timeline -- in writing -- of their entire relationship. She should also be willing to answer any and all questions that you have. If you have any doubts, consider a polygraph; if you go this route, don't clue her in on what sort of questions will be asked of her.

Also, an idea that you'll see thrown around pretty regularly here on TAM is that, though the decision to engage in an EA, PA, or EA/PA is 100% on the wayward spouse, generally speaking, BOTH spouses are equally responsible for the state of their marriage at any given point in time. What this means is that, though your wife's decision to commit infidelity is 100% on her, you may have inadvertently -- or, hell, intentionally -- contributed to whatever conditions arouse within your marriage that allowed her to cheat. Be honest w/ yourself in this regard, but don't be too hard on yourself either. MC (marriage counseling) and IC (individual counseling) may help you here.

So, what do you want to do?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the worst part about all of it is I just don't care about the sex anymore as I have zero drive left. We went to MC for about 1 year, and I currently go to IC. I had no idea that being rejected for so long can actually turn your drive completely off which is what my counselor says most likely happened to me.


:iagree:

Sounds identical to my feelings a few months post D-day. It messes with your head. Your need to feel loved and have trust in your partner/spouse trumps your physical desire for sex.

It will come back, but your environment needs to change.

I agree with the previous posters. It might be time to end the marriage and move on. You need to feel valued. She has destroyed your emotional bond. When you know you are her second place it is devastating to your morale.

Find and read the old posts about "Just let them go."


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

HG, how did you find out about the EA? Did she confess or did you find it on your own and, if so, how did she react?

How did you react initially, and how did you handle things in the aftermath? Did you insist on any "consequences", concessions, etc?

Was she remorseful?

Did you confront OM?


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, he wouldn't show up as a mutual friend if she actually deleted him. I just tested it with my wife's account she is lying. I unfriended my wife, which removed her name from my profile. I checked her account and I do not show up on her list either. The only way for you to get the "mutual friend" message is if they were still friends. She is lying.
> See last sentence above.
> 
> EDIT:
> ...


I figured as much that she was lying. Yes, my Wife was the mutual friend since she was my only friend at the time I searched for him. Not sure what I can do now, if anything...


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Thanks. He was -- nay, is! -- the man.
> 
> As for your predicament...
> 
> ...


I brought up a polygraph and she said she believed it was absolutely obscured and she refused to do it. I honestly at this point try to not let any of it bother me. I just live my life 1 day at a time and try to make the most of it. I guess I'm just rug sweeping at this point as well. I don't want to divorce her and we've been to marriage counseling but have no idea how to bring the Facebook thing back up. They key logger showed nothing on her PC in regards to whens he was in Facebook but my heart would race every time I saw the screen shots just waiting for something to come up. I hate to say it but I guess I've been waiting and watching for her to slip up so I have a fresh reason to file for D......... I DO love her, maybe I'm stupid for it but I really do.

No matter how many times I ask she swears it was never physical as well.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> HG, how did you find out about the EA? Did she confess or did you find it on your own and, if so, how did she react?
> 
> How did you react initially, and how did you handle things in the aftermath? Did you insist on any "consequences", concessions, etc?
> 
> ...


Gus, I had yet again another gut feeling and kept on her for months until she finally broke down hysterically crying one night saying she was a bad person. She said she liked him and that she told him she liked him, I pried harder but she insisted that he was just there for her when I wasn't and it was never physical.

I was extremely angry initially and just left the house. The day after, I called their work and filed a sexual harassment charge on him. My Wife was LIVID, stupid me called and closed the case but made sure to tell the HR personnel that they were welcome advances and they were dating. She seemed puzzled obviously since this was after all the H of my WS calling and saying this.

She spend the next week or so apologizing to him for my overreacting and completely shut down on me. I was a complete puddle of mud at this time and just broke down. I was at my life's low point then, we were living with her parents due to a job loss on her part, I only made 1/4 of what I do now and hated my job. I didn't know what to do and could not afford to move out. So what did I do? I begged HER not to leave me, I was beyond weak and pathetic, but I admit and own that. I DO regret that and wish I could go back to change how I acted. I will never forgive myself for acting that way in a moment of such a nightmare....

Flame suite is on, I'm ready to take a bashing from people on being so weak, lol..........


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the worst part about all of it is I just don't care about the sex anymore as I have zero drive left. We went to MC for about 1 year, and I currently go to IC. I had no idea that being rejected for so long can actually turn your drive completely off which is what my counselor says most likely happened to me.
> 
> Well that, and the part that since the VAR's, GPS, and keyloggers still don't turn anything up I Just ignore the little things like this and just do my projects at home, and work.
> 
> By the way, she's 29 and I'm 27...


You've been using VARS and keyloggers for 2.5 to 3 years? That's a very long time to do surveilence and carry feelings of mistrust with a spouse. You have no kids with her? Hell, I'd pull the plug then. You have a lot of life left to find someone that will actually love you. IMHO, this is not love.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> You've been using VARS and keyloggers for 2.5 to 3 years? That's a very long time to do surveilence and carry feelings of mistrust with a spouse. You have no kids with her? Hell, I'd pull the plug then. You have a lot of life left to find someone that will actually love you. IMHO, this is not love.


It's been off and on honestly.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

If she isn't in active contact with him she was in passive contact. The ability to peer into his activities was preserved through that friendship.

Tell her poly or get the hell out. The cheater does not get to dictate terms.

Your marriage is an ongoing source of mental anguish for you.

Why would you stay married to her when her refusal suggests the affair was physical? She lost respect for you and all the surveillance in the world won't keep you safe or make her love you.

I've seen too many relationships where a party cheats before or early in the relationship and the spouse wussies out in acting decisively. Guess what the cheater does sometime in the future?


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> If she isn't in active contact with him she was in passive contact. The ability to peer into his activities was preserved through that friendship.
> 
> Tell her poly or get the hell out. The cheater does not get to dictate terms.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm extremely naïve but I feel that she loves me. She always asks why I love her though, I don't know why she needs reassurance. I guess I've just become accustomed to this whole ordeal and just say the hell with it...


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

She asks for the same reasons she cheated. He validated her. She wants you to do so as well. This to me is an even bigger red flag that she is EXTREMELY LIKELY to be a repeat offender.

Her sense of self is disabled. Unless that changes her love is a desperate love and not one based on an adult attachment. She is still am immature child.

Do not listen to this at your own peril.

She MUST take the poly so you can make an informed decision on the next step.

If you want to give her another chance after all she has done and all her lies insist on IC for her to address whatever it is that stunted her development such that she needs outside ayytention to feel good about herself.

Then see where that leads.


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

Well, I'm sure you know now that you did exactly the wrong thing when you first found out about the EA. Begging an unfaithful spouse to stay and not leave is never a good idea. And you're doing the wrong thing now, because you reacted instead of acted. The better course of action would have been to have her log on to her facebook account at home, with you watching, so you could see who is on her friend's list.

That being said, it's quite possible that she had him as a friend from before and just never deleted him, however unlikely that may be. If you still love her and want to stay married, I would suggest the following:

1. Complete transparency from her and for her. Passwords to everything, access to cell phones, etc. If she doesn't want to give that to you, or you to her, there's something going on and if no one wants to bend, you should probably end it.

2. Stop withholding sex. The only thing that will get you is a divorce.

You have no children, so there is no reason to stay in an unfulfilled marriage. At the same time, you're doing nothing other than looking for reasons to end the marriage. If that's what you want, end it. But it seems to me she doesn't want to end the marriage, She is approaching you for intimacy, making the first step. All you need to do is take a step toward her to see if there is anything worth saving. If you don't want to do that, you have already made up your mind and should stop wasting your, and her's time.

Why didn't marriage counseling provide any relief in this situation?


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

justastatistic said:


> Well, I'm sure you know now that you did exactly the wrong thing when you first found out about the EA. Begging an unfaithful spouse to stay and not leave is never a good idea. And you're doing the wrong thing now, because you reacted instead of acted. The better course of action would have been to have her log on to her facebook account at home, with you watching, so you could see who is on her friend's list.
> 
> That being said, it's quite possible that she had him as a friend from before and just never deleted him, however unlikely that may be. If you still love her and want to stay married, I would suggest the following:
> 
> ...


I think the main reason is because the counselor actually told me to get past what happened and to not bring it up to her. So in short, I was pretty well pi$$ed off at the counselor when we went to MC together. That gave her a sense that if I brought it up she could get upset about it. If I bring it up to this day, she will say "I thought we were past this".....


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the main reason is because the counselor actually told me to get past what happened and to not bring it up to her. So in short, I was pretty well pi$$ed off at the counselor when we went to MC together. That gave her a sense that if I brought it up she could get upset about it. If I bring it up to this day, she will say "I thought we were past this".....


Wow. What a sh*tty counselor.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Wow. What a sh*tty counselor.


Yeah, she said that the only way I'll ever get past it is to just acknowledge that it's in the past. If I need to talk about it, either call her or talk to a friend about it, but not my Wife. Good stuff.........


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

Yep, that's one ****ty counselor. Given my own experience with the mental health "professionals" that "treated" my wife, I can't say I'm surprised. 

But I keep coming back to the same conclusion. If you still love your wife, and she still loves you (which I am guessing she does since a) you don't have children, b) she's approaching you for sex and c) she hasn't filed for divorce), why not give it one last try? Find a counselor experienced with treating marriages affected by infidelity and give it one last shot. Together with what others have said about transparency etc etc of course.

During the course of MC I would suggest to your wife, in front of the counselor, that you BOTH take polygraphs in order to move forward from a place of truth. Maybe even discuss the polygraph and what you plan with the MC beforehand so she doesn't shoot it down and undermine you. Offer up that if she was physically unfaithful that it wouldn't necessarily mean that the marriage is over, but that the only way to move forward in an honest, healthy marriage is to begin from a place of truth. If she says no, then you have your answer. If she says yes, then do it.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

you need a new counselor.

or just divorce.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the main reason is because the counselor actually told me to get past what happened and to not bring it up to her. So in short, I was pretty well pi$$ed off at the counselor when we went to MC together. That gave her a sense that if I brought it up she could get upset about it. If I bring it up to this day, *she will say "I thought we were past this"*.....


You made two points in your posts...

1. It never went physical. So? Ultimately the trust was destroyed regardless of who did/didn't have sex with her. It seems more likely that sex was there. Does it matter so much? I ask because....

2. She wants to avoid the issue with her EA. As you posted above, it is clear her feelings to rug sweep this is more important than her willingness to help you heal. HUGE RED FLAG!

Why would you want to stay in any relationship when their desire to avoid a topic is more important to them than your well being? Truth be known, her behavior is poor; very poor.

It is difficult. I had to realize this fact after 23 years of marriage. It ended when I decided I wanted to respect myself. The old can be replaced. Being single is not always bad. Finding a better woman is easier than changing a bad one.

Good luck. So sorry you are going through this. Hope you find your answers and have a decent weekend.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

helplessguy82 said:


> I hate to say it but I guess I've been waiting and watching for her to slip up so I have a fresh reason to file for D......... I DO love her, maybe I'm stupid for it but I really do.
> 
> No matter how many times I ask she swears it was never physical as well.


You're talking out of both sides of your mouth my man. In one sentence your not attracted to her and waiting for her to slip up so you'll have an reason to leave and in the next sentence she's the love of your life. 
Let me help you straighten this ambivalence out. Youre in love with a fantasy but your gut is telling you to face the reality. The truth is that all you've got to go on about this dude is what she told you. Since she lied before, how do you know that she’s not lying again? 
What part of you (the fantasy) can't accept is the key ingredient she's missing is loyalty. If the gal was loyal, she wouldn't have been playing footsy with this guy.
Regarding the polygraph thing, it boils down to two things; neither are good. One, she don't want to take it because she knows it will let the cat out of the bag, or two, she doesn't give a rats azz about your peace of mind. You pick the one you think is worse.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> You're talking out of both sides of your mouth my man. In one sentence your not attracted to her and waiting for her to slip up so you'll have an reason to leave and in the next sentence she's the love of your life.
> Let me help you straighten this ambivalence out. Youre in love with a fantasy but your gut is telling you to face the reality. The truth is that all you've got to go on about this dude is what she told you. Since she lied before, how do you know that she’s not lying again?
> What part of you (the fantasy) can't accept is the key ingredient she's missing is loyalty. If the gal was loyal, she wouldn't have been playing footsy with this guy.
> Regarding the polygraph thing, it boils down to two things; neither are good. One, she don't want to take it because she knows it will let the cat out of the bag, or two, she doesn't give a rats azz about your peace of mind. You pick the one you think is worse.


They are all pretty much one in the same in my book. Thinking about it honestly I guess the main reason I don't want to divorce her is I don't want her to get the house and everything in it. I don't have anywhere to go but she makes less than 1/4 of what I do so I'm pretty sure she would get the house AND alimony....


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Alimony is temporary except in long term marriages in most places. If she can get on her own two feet the judge will require her to do so. 

How long have you been married? What state? Is she able to work, etc?

Have you spoken with a lawyer? Your assumptions may be extremely off base.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

helplessguy82 said:


> They are all pretty much one in the same in my book. Thinking about it honestly I guess the main reason I don't want to divorce her is I don't want her to get the house and everything in it. I don't have anywhere to go but she makes less than 1/4 of what I do so I'm pretty sure she would get the house AND alimony....


You need to talk to a lawyer and confirm your suspicions. She may not even want the house, generally the property is divided 50/50 and unless you have done something heinous that we are unaware of, you have no reason to expect anything but that), and in certain states like mine, if their is infidelity, then alimony is off the table. You have proof she cheated, even an EA counts and she gets nothing in alimony (and you can sue the AP for the dissolution of the marriage). Get yourself a lawyer and ease your mind.

Also in lots of states if no children are involved they may have force the sale of the house or require one party to buy out the equity of the other party (whichever would like to keep the house) and she may not want the responsibility. When children are involved they try to keep the children in their house and give the primary custodial parent the house in the agreement (but they might have to pay the other for the equity as quell). So many possibilities. She may just want out and voluntarily remove her name from the responsibilities for the house.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Alimony is temporary except in long term marriages in most places. If she can get on her own two feet the judge will require her to do so.
> 
> How long have you been married? What state? Is she able to work, etc?
> 
> Have you spoken with a lawyer? Your assumptions may be extremely off base.


We've been married for 5 years and are in Michigan. She would have to live with her parents are is in debt up to her eyeballs so she wouldn't be able to get a place for a very long time, which is why I'm concerned she would be awarded the house...


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> You need to talk to a lawyer and confirm your suspicions. She may not even want the house, generally the property is divided 50/50 and unless you have done something heinous that we are unaware of, you have no reason to expect anything but that), and in certain states like mine, if their is infidelity, then alimony is off the table. You have proof she cheated, even an EA counts and she gets nothing in alimony (and you can sue the AP for the dissolution of the marriage). Get yourself a lawyer and ease your mind.
> 
> Also in lots of states if no children are involved they may have force the sale of the house or require one party to buy out the equity of the other party (whichever would like to keep the house) and she may not want the responsibility. When children are involved they try to keep the children in their house and give the primary custodial parent the house in the agreement (but they might have to pay the other for the equity as quell). So many possibilities. She may just want out and voluntarily remove her name from the responsibilities for the house.


Oh believe me, she would want the house. She loves the place like nothing else in life!


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

It's a relatively short term marriage, so while you would have to pay alimony based on the disparity in your incomes it wouldn't be for very long. Property acquired during the marriage is generally split 50/50.

And in almost all states, you can't sue a third party anymore for alienation of affection. So even if she did physically cheat, it wouldn't do you any good to prove it.

In short, I wouldn't let a fear of financial consequences stop you from getting a divorce. At this point they would be slight, but they get worse every year you stay together.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think your divorce will be a lot easier than you believe.

5 years is nothing.

No kids is a blessing.

The debt sucks but it is half her debt, too. If you own the house you split it down the middle and pay off what you can.

Spousal will not be long if it is awarded at all.

See a lawyer.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

Thanks everyone, I literally just called and setup an appointment on Tuesday with a highly respected attorney in my area.

So are you saying that typically the house would have to be sold and split between the both of us so we would both have to find a place to go in the interim?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

justastatistic said:


> In most states you can sue a third party anymore for alienation of affection. So even if she did physically cheat, it wouldn't do you any good to prove it.


Yep, only 6-7 states left that still allow it, and I am pretty sure Mi isn't one.

They don't just award houses based upon someones need to have a place to stay and the ability to get another one. They really don't care if you end up living on the street or in a mansion, they just decide on what they deem an equitable division of the property, and if that forces a sale and both parties out on the street, then so be it.
The courts don't really care in that respect.


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

No, you could both stay there, and in fact you both have a RIGHT to stay there. During the divorce the disposition of the house would be decided, either she buys you out,, you buy her out, or it is sold and the proceeds split.

But this brings up an interesting point....if you file start carrying a VAR with you everywhere and every time you need to deal with her, or even might have to deal with her. It is depressingly common for a spouse to use a false claim of domestic violence to get the other person out of the house, and the courts tend to err on the side of caution in deciding those cases. Record every interaction with her so you can prove you didn't do anything if she tries that tactic.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

justastatistic said:


> No, you could both stay there, and in fact you both have a RIGHT to stay there. During the divorce the disposition of the house would be decided, either she buys you out,, you buy her out, or it is sold and the proceeds split.
> 
> But this brings up an interesting point....if you file start carrying a VAR with you everywhere and every time you need to deal with her, or even might have to deal with her. It is depressingly common for a spouse to use a false claim of domestic violence to get the other person out of the house, and the courts tend to err on the side of caution in deciding those cases. Record every interaction with her so you can prove you didn't do anything if she tries that tactic.


Good information and I'll be sure to do that if this does indeed move forward.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Once you have sex with a spouse who has cheated you lose the right to sue on grounds of infidelity. Sex is forgiveness.

Glad you made an appt. But given your lack of assets if she were ok with it, you can go cheap by getting the paperwork from the courthouse or Staples and filling it out yourself. Divide things down the middle. File.

I don't know if there is any mandatory separation period in your state. If there is, does it require separation of a abodes? Some allow in-house separation like PA. You live completely separate lives, sleep separately, etc. Others like NJ want a year of physical separation. 

Look it up online so you can start planning.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

helplessguy82 said:


> Good information and I'll be sure to do that if this does indeed move forward.


Be sure and talk to a lawyer as each state is different. In my state in order for D to proceed the couple has to be separated for 1 year and 1 day and then they can petition/file for D and not 1 day sooner. That separation is predicated on the 2 living in separate residences for the 1 year and 1 day, so you may not be able to both stay there, some other states have allowed the 2 to say we are separated and still co-habitate right up until the D decree is signed by the judge. It just depends on the state laws regarding D.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> Once you have sex with a spouse who has cheated you lose the right to sue on grounds of infidelity. Sex is forgiveness.
> 
> Glad you made an appt. But given your lack of assets if she were ok with it, you can go cheap by getting the paperwork from the courthouse or Staples and filling it out yourself. Divide things down the middle. File.
> 
> ...


Once again get legal advice as it pertains to your state. In my state sex between partners is acceptable, it is not considered forgiveness until the wronged party states "I forgive you" specifically. Otherwise it is fine to continue to have sex and still have the grounds of adultery. I could also separate and then start dating and having sex while married and as long as the parties agreed we were separated then it can't be used as infidelity, as we are considered as singles at that point in time. Messed up as it is, that is my state!


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

helplessguy82 said:


> They are all pretty much one in the same in my book. Thinking about it honestly I guess the main reason I don't want to divorce her is I don't want her to get the house and everything in it. I don't have anywhere to go but she makes less than 1/4 of what I do so I'm pretty sure she would get the house AND alimony....


It sounds like you are finally getting somewhere with yourself.

You have identified your reason to stay with her. It is about money. Fear of losing it.

You probably need to develop a solid exit strategy. Figure out a game plan for your departure. Save some cash. Talk to a lawyer about the realities. Your assumptions might be worse than actually what will happen.

Divorce sux, but it is less stressful than a bad marriage. Your lack of children will make it much less stressful than the majority of divorces.

I am pro marriage, and pro divorce after betrayal. Nothing wrong with those that choose to be single. I love being married. Love it even more with a faithful, caring wife. Had to get rid of one to get the other.

You will learn from this. Your time reflecting will help you focus your skills. Use these new perspectives to find better things in your future.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Once you have sex with a spouse who has cheated you lose the right to sue on grounds of infidelity. Sex is forgiveness.
> 
> Glad you made an appt. But given your lack of assets if she were ok with it, you can go cheap by getting the paperwork from the courthouse or Staples and filling it out yourself. Divide things down the middle. File.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll do that. I want to ask you all how I should deliver this to her? I know she is going to be hysterical once I bring it up and she will not give the house up without a fight. I know that for a fact!


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

Lovemytruck said:


> It sounds like you are finally getting somewhere with yourself.
> 
> You have identified your reason to stay with her. It is about money. Fear of losing it.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I will need the support of the community here if I do actually drop some and go through with this.

How would you deliver this to her and when? Just that I cannot continue to have this torment me as it has done for the past 3 years?


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

clipclop2 said:


> Once you have sex with a spouse who has cheated you lose the right to sue on grounds of infidelity. Sex is forgiveness.
> 
> Others like NJ want a year of physical separation.
> 
> Look it up online so you can start planning.


Actually, NJ changed its laws and now provides for divorce based on irreconcilable differences. That means you only have to claim you have been experiencing irreconcilable differences for six months in order to file, and you don't have to be separated at all.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the worst part about all of it is I just don't care about the sex anymore as I have zero drive left. We went to MC for about 1 year, and I currently go to IC. I had no idea that being rejected for so long can actually turn your drive completely off which is what my counselor says most likely happened to me.
> 
> Well that, and the part that since the VAR's, GPS, and keyloggers still don't turn anything up I Just ignore the little things like this and just do my projects at home, and work.
> 
> By the way, she's 29 and I'm 27...


They work together. You can't VAR her whole work place can you?
You're clearly floundering her and she's always one step ahead of you. Then again there might not be anything happening.

She had an EA, the guy still working with her, she says they were not friends but they were *because she blocked you from her friends feed*. You probably haven't been to MC to talk about why she cheated in the first place. Some rug sweeping, a lot of blame shifting. It's no surprise you are now at this point.

You still haven't moved on from the EA. So sit her down, you make it clear you're giving her a onetime deal here.

If she is truly willing and she truly loves you and wants this marriage to work then you both will work together to repair it and make it stronger BUT she gives you access to her email, facebook, phone etc (At that moment, don't allow her to go and delete all her contacts and facebook message exchanges, she's already shown you she's adept at covering her tracks) No excuses, no time limits, right there and then.

You will have your answer soon enough either way.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

helplessguy82 said:


> I think the worst part about all of it is I just don't care about the sex anymore as I have zero drive left. We went to MC for about 1 year, and I currently go to IC. I had no idea that being rejected for so long can actually turn your drive completely off which is what my counselor says most likely happened to me.
> 
> Well that, and the part that since the VAR's, GPS, and keyloggers still don't turn anything up I Just ignore the little things like this and just do my projects at home, and work.
> 
> By the way, she's 29 and I'm 27...


Ya know, it sounds to me like you two need to bury the hatchet. 

I mean, maybe she's betraying you and maybe not. But it's not like you've been working overtime to make the relationship work either.

My suggestion is to sit her down, make it clear you know there's something going on and just ask her flat out if she wants to continue the relationship at all. If so, then she has to come clean and the two of you need to take whatever steps are necessary to fully rebuild. If not, then it's time to go.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

BobSimmons said:


> They work together. You can't VAR her whole work place can you?
> You're clearly floundering her and she's always one step ahead of you. Then again there might not be anything happening.
> 
> She had an EA, the guy still working with her, she says they were not friends but they were *because she blocked you from her friends feed*. You probably haven't been to MC to talk about why she cheated in the first place. Some rug sweeping, a lot of blame shifting. It's no surprise you are now at this point.
> ...


Actually we did go to MC to find out why she had an EA. She claimed I didn't give her enough attention and she didn't feel appreciated.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> Ya know, it sounds to me like you two need to bury the hatchet.
> 
> I mean, maybe she's betraying you and maybe not. But it's not like you've been working overtime to make the relationship work either.
> 
> My suggestion is to sit her down, make it clear you know there's something going on and just ask her flat out if she wants to continue the relationship at all. If so, then she has to come clean and the two of you need to take whatever steps are necessary to fully rebuild. If not, then it's time to go.


See, the thing is I don't know for certain something is still going on. As of right now it's just my gut I'm going off of, especially with that Facebook "mutual friend" thing...


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your situation.

Its sad to say, but if people are hiding something, its usually because there is something to hide.

You can go the whole keylogger route, etc. but if you are done, it might be better to spend your energy on how to get out of the 'marriage' in the best shape possible.

Good luck.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Do you still have access to her Facebook page and does she know?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

helplessguy82 said:


> I brought up a polygraph and she said she believed it was absolutely obscured and she refused to do it. I honestly at this point try to not let any of it bother me. I just live my life 1 day at a time and try to make the most of it. I guess I'm just rug sweeping at this point as well. I don't want to divorce her and we've been to marriage counseling but have no idea how to bring the Facebook thing back up. They key logger showed nothing on her PC in regards to whens he was in Facebook but my heart would race every time I saw the screen shots just waiting for something to come up. I hate to say it but I guess I've been waiting and watching for her to slip up so I have a fresh reason to file for D......... I DO love her, maybe I'm stupid for it but I really do.
> 
> No matter how many times I ask she swears it was never physical as well.


That's why she was so happy to take the poly test.:rofl:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

It doesn't matter if you get the Pope to talk to her , if they still see each other at work, the affair didn't stop. Won't take a liecdetector test? You stopped the sexual harassment case.

Everyhing you have done makes you look weak and whiney and you still are. In comparison she thinks he is strong and manly after they defeated you over the harassment thing.

Get the mmslp book linked below. Download it from amazon. It will help you grow a pair.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> It doesn't matter if you get the Pope to talk to her , if they still see each other at work, the affair didn't stop. Won't take a liecdetector test? You stopped the sexual harassment case.
> 
> Everyhing you have done makes you look weak and whiney and you still are. In comparison she thinks he is strong and manly after they defeated you over the harassment thing.
> 
> Get the mmslp book linked below. Download it from amazon. It will help you grow a pair.


Yeah OP. Get that book.

As for the sex drive issue; are you still turned on by random hotties on the street? Do you ever feel tempted when women come onto you at work and around town?


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

Machiavelli said:


> Yeah OP. Get that book.
> 
> As for the sex drive issue; are you still turned on by random hotties on the street? Do you ever feel tempted when women come onto you at work and around town?


Thanks guys, I am downloading the book as I type this. To answer your question, yes I do feel attracted to hotties I see around town/at work.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

@helplessguy82 Unless you friended her co worker on Facebook he would not show up as a mutual friend between you two. There is a possibility she blocked him the first time so as not to unfriend him as that would send him a message that she had unfriended him and she did not want to cause issues with her co worker, an intimate partner. The fact she will not take a polygraph would tell me it was a physical affair and she does not want you to have proof or she does not care about your feelings. As a parole officer in Texas we send parolees back to prison based on whether they pass a polygraph or not. If the pollygrapher is any good at all they will know and it can be trusted.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> @helplessguy82 Unless you friended her co worker on Facebook he would not show up as a mutual friend between you two. There is a possibility she blocked him the first time so as not to unfriend him as that would send him a message that she had unfriended him and she did not want to cause issues with her co worker, an intimate partner. The fact she will not take a polygraph would tell me it was a physical affair and she does not want you to have proof or she does not care about your feelings. As a parole officer in Texas we send parolees back to prison based on whether they pass a polygraph or not. If the pollygrapher is any good at all they will know and it can be trusted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


To clarify, I think, when he looked up her ap, she showed up as the op'friend and the ap's friend. When he looked again she was no longer the ap's friend. That means she got in contact with her ap and he defriended her.

Not sure how ap didn't show up on her friends list, maybe she has more than one acct. Many cheaters do that.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> To clarify, I think, when he looked up her ap, she showed up as the op'friend and the ap's friend. When he looked again she was no longer the ap's friend. That means she got in contact with her ap and he defriended her.
> 
> Not sure how ap didn't show up on her friends list, maybe she has more than one acct. Many cheaters do that.


Or it is possible that she is one of those that has 1000's of friends and he overlooked the name in a list. When I was on FB I would see this lots with people whom had large friends lists, I would give up looking or just overlook a name when I was viewing their list.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

*OP, read this post very carefully, as it will give you the answer you need.*

I assume you have access to her FB - meaning you have her password and can log in as her, correct?

If not, you damn well should.

Now, once at that point, log in as her, go to her page (not the news feed page, but click on her name). Then click on View Activity Log. Once in there toward the top/center of the screen there should be an unchecked box called "Include Only Me Activity". Click that box.

Then you can scroll through everything she's done on FB in chronological order, going backwards. On the right side of all the entries, there are icons. The icon that looks like a padlock indicates actions that are only seen by her.

Focus on those - this will show who she searched for, when she unfriended people, etc. This will give you the date she unfriended him, and you will have your answer.

If she didn't unfriend him until the day you "caught" her, then you'll know she is lying about when that happened.

You will also see any "activity" she had with him, i.e. likes, comments, etc. Those wont have the padlock icon.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> *OP, read this post very carefully, as it will give you the answer you need.*
> 
> I assume you have access to her FB - meaning you have her password and can log in as her, correct?
> 
> ...


Bingo, good job. There used to be a way to recover deleted facebook messages. Is this it?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Bingo, good job. There used to be a way to recover deleted facebook messages. Is this it?


I don't think that deleted messages can be retrieved, but archived messages can be.


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## helplessguy82 (May 23, 2014)

BINGO! Thanks for the help on that. I had no idea you could see that if logged in as someone else. I'll skim through there tonight and update you all with my findings once I see them. Should I take screenshots of my findings?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Eh...for the record:

If you do some discoveries: Do Not Confront Her!

Leave it to experienced posters to advise you on what to do next. Brace yourself to follow this advice.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

helplessguy82 said:


> BINGO! Thanks for the help on that. I had no idea you could see that if logged in as someone else. I'll skim through there tonight and update you all with my findings once I see them. *Should I take screenshots of my findings?*


Yes! And back them up in a couple of places. Make sure that one of them is a cloud-based solution (Dropbox, etc).


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

helplessguy82 said:


> BINGO! Thanks for the help on that. I had no idea you could see that if logged in as someone else. I'll skim through there tonight and update you all with my findings once I see them. Should I take screenshots of my findings?


Understand, you have to log in into her Facebook account. You need her username and password. You can't see her activity from "your account".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Eh...for the record:
> 
> If you do some discoveries: Do Not Confront Her!
> 
> Leave it to experienced posters to advise you on what to do next. Brace yourself to follow this advice.


:iagree:Yeah. Don't fly off the handle or get upset. James Bond all the way, ice cold, then come here and these guys will walk you through everything the right way.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

helplessguy82 said:


> BINGO! Thanks for the help on that. I had no idea you could see that if logged in as someone else. I'll skim through there tonight and update you all with my findings once I see them. *Should I take screenshots of my findings?*


Yes. And backup the screenshots somewhere else.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Tobyboy said:


> Understand, you have to log in into her Facebook account. You need her username and password. You can't see her activity from "your account".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is correct. You have to log in as her. But this shouldn't be a problem if you have her email and password for the account, which you damn should have in your situation.

Chap, no, you cannot retrieve deleted FB messages doing what I am saying. This is simply to view her activity log, which WILL show you when/if she unfriended someone.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Bump.

Hey OP, were you able to check and see what the results were?


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Divinely Favored said:


> @helplessguy82 Unless you friended her co worker on Facebook he would not show up as a mutual friend between you two. There is a possibility she blocked him the first time so as not to unfriend him as that would send him a message that she had unfriended him and she did not want to cause issues with her co worker, an intimate partner. The fact she will not take a polygraph would tell me it was a physical affair and she does not want you to have proof or she does not care about your feelings. As a parole officer in Texas we send parolees back to prison based on whether they pass a polygraph or not. If the pollygrapher is any good at all they will know and it can be trusted.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think OP looked OM up. Wife, who was OP's friend, appeared as a mutual friend. And this does happen. When you look up random friend suggestions on FB, it shows your mutual friends even though you are not friends with the person you are looking up. 

She was friends with him. The moment OP brought that up she immediately deleted him. 

OP, this is a huge red flag. If this was just an 'innocent' case of her keeping him as friends and nothing else was going on she would have stated that. Due to her history and desire to show you it was innocent she would have done whatever was necessary i.e. shown you it was nothing and offered to delete him (again!) and protested her innocence vociferously. This was not nothing and was not innocent.

Clear your head. What would an innocent person do? What would a liar who had just been caught do?

Finally, can you get into her fb page? Do you have access? Of you have a key logger on the computer, I assume you have access. Look into her messages and archives. And also look at her activity history. This shows her searches, people befriended, and all her activity I believe.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> To clarify, I think, when he looked up her ap, she showed up as the op'friend and the ap's friend. When he looked again she was no longer the ap's friend. That means she got in contact with her ap and he defriended her.
> 
> Not sure how ap didn't show up on her friends list, maybe she has more than one acct. Many cheaters do that.


If she had more than one account, she would not have showed up as his mutual friend. Unless OP was friends with her on her other account. She showed up as a friend from the account OP is friends with her on.

Not to say she doesn't have a second account, just that they were both friends to each other, hence, she came up as a mutual friend..

And SHE deleted him. That is how it happened so quickly. Once deleted, she won't show up on his either. 

The reason you couldn't see him as a friend is because you have restricted access to her account. Either that or there is a function on fb where you can hide friends. I don't know if there is or not, but I do know you can restrict access of different groups and individuals to the information they see. I'd say there is probably a function where you can hide certain friends though. That seems most likely. I'm not sure she could restrict one person from seeing certain 'friends' on fb.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

*Re: Re: Is she still playing me and having an EA/PA?*



justastatistic said:


> Actually, NJ changed its laws and now provides for divorce based on irreconcilable differences. That means you only have to claim you have been experiencing irreconcilable differences for six months in order to file, and you don't have to be separated at all.


Every time I looked that up I got conflicting info. A lot of sites, even law sites are not up to date.

So really, no separation, not even in-house? Are you certain? Because of you are boffing it is hard to claim that things are so bad you have to get out.

Then, what if the other spouse contests?


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