# She's Paid her Retainer



## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Well I said I was done with TAM on a previous post, but I guess it was only for a season. The plot has thickened in my marriage... my wife has paid for legal retainer. 

At this point I am so sick of this relationship I don't really care how it moves on, but I'd definitely prefer not to be raped by some lawyer for alimony ad infinitum.

I'm really unsure as where to go from here. I had been advocating for divorce through mediation if reconciliation wasn't possible. My wife seems to be of the opinion that she can maintain her lifestyle with or without me, via legal fiat.

I am quite willing to leave my practice and let the planet friggin burn, as I am not about to continue to work 12-14 hour days so the b*tch can stay at home, go to the gym for three hours, and have lunch with her other non-producing friends. Truth be told, my Care-meter is at an all time low. I figure my family is already gone, why should I care about the rest?

I actually hate her. I completely understand what estranged means. I should be happy to get rid of her at any price, but I don't want to be handicapped by an unfair settlement for the rest of my days. This is especially true, as I am not the primary party responsible for the death of our marriage. 

Any thought here, or as I am a professional guy with kids and a low six-figure income, should I just prepare myself to be screwed by the courts of CA?

LIL


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Google "Divorce For Men" and buy it - it's very helpful on how to navigate your way through the divorce from a legal standpoint.

Everything is negotiable - you are about to enter the most important business transaction of your life - your divorce.

That's all it is.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> Google "Divorce For Men" and buy it - it's very helpful on how to navigate your way through the divorce from a legal standpoint.
> 
> Everything is negotiable - you are about to enter the most important business transaction of your life - your divorce.
> 
> That's all it is.


Thanks for your reply Scannerguard. It's sound advice. I already bought it and read it awhile back. That's why I suggested mediation, if it was to "go down". 

I've actually spent a silly amount of time researching CA family law. My wife isn't much of a scholar, but she is highly reactive. In her mind, if I want mediation, it is because it's to my advantage, so she'll simply baulk along those lines. 

I've already tried to tell her that mediators are a neutral party seeking only to facilitate the disolution of our marriage, but to no avail. She said she'd do mediation with the help of an attorney, but I think that defeats the purpose.

It wouldn't be as bad if she wasn't paying her friggin attorney with my money, but then again if she had a career and actually contributed to the marriage, divorce wouldn't be on the table. 

LIL


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

I am in the same boat. One difference - I was laid of of my low six figure income job in December. So, no alimony as of yet due to the fact that I am only getting unemployment checks. However, my W has charged her attorneys retainer on a joint credit card and continue to spend $$ (charging and using up a trust we have I set up for taxes) like it's going out of style. She is VERY resentful that she needs to get a job and work to maintain her lifestyle without me. 

I'm going to PM you something..


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Talk to a lawyer but there is a discussion - an honest discussion that goes like this:
I LIL am willing to do X for you. If X is not sufficient I am going to go work with doctors without borders or some organization like that for a small fraction of my current income. And that means you will get way way less then X. 

Since you know I don't care about money - go ahead and push me and watch what happens. 

I also think you might want to chat with her mother and explain your position on this. 

LIL - I know it sickens you how lazy/unproductive your wife is. But if her mother elects to step in here and fill the gap so your wife can continue to not work - don't fight it. 

Just focus on you and what you get. And heck - if you don't speed this up - you are going to end up spending another year or two celibate - do you really want that?








lastinline said:


> Well I said I was done with TAM on a previous post, but I guess it was only for a season. The plot has thickened in my marriage... my wife has paid for legal retainer.
> 
> At this point I am so sick of this relationship I don't really care how it moves on, but I'd definitely prefer not to be raped by some lawyer for alimony ad infinitum.
> 
> ...


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Well since we have been arguing over the finances , my wife is thinking the same thing, that she will get a lot of money and will be able to live her standard "devil may care" lifestyle. Maybe she can for awhile - but it will eventually catch up to her. And yeah at the end of the day I'm paying for both lawyers also. Really sucks , but the laws have never changed and women always have the upper hand in divorce - even if they work. 

Lastinline - check out the Collaborative divorce process. No judge, no mediator, just you and your wife sit down with your attorneys and work out a deal. I'm sure California has attys that practice it.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

How are you paying for both? I might be "paying for both" now since she used joint credit cards and I'm making the monthly payments but you can bet I'm gonna get her to pay her own attorney by taking his fees out of whatever settlement she gets.


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Yeah I have to talk to my lawyer about that. She took money out of my acct a few days before she asked for a divorce, w/o me knowing it, and paid the retainer to her atty.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I dunno... maybe she has been more valuable all along...

Mom Salary Wizard® 2009. Mother's Day Paycheck for Mom's Job

Maybe she should be paying you for your lack of housekeeping services after you divorce.

I want to laugh... I just can't though.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Still have her by close to 100k Atholk even with the friggin ridiculous salary figure they quoted. It's not the divorce that bothers me as much as paying for the lawyer that's being used against me. It's like getting shot with one of your own guns. It sucks. LIL


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

The whole SAHM thing just seems like a terrible trap for men actually. Not much way to spin it otherwise should it go sour.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

I think "trap" is a tad dramatic Atholk. If the stay at home person takes their duties as seriously as someone in a quote "professional career", than in my humble opinion it's a beatiful thing, everyone in the family benefits. 

I would agree that there is potential for abuse, but that's always the case with anything whether or not you "work" inside or outside the home. That's why it's important that you "partner up" with someone who is actually going to be a partner and contribute. I guess I learned that lesson a little too late. Rich girl = poor work ethic. Who would of thunk it?

LIL


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## dantanph (Feb 7, 2010)

Interesting. I really don't understand why there are women like that. I am a woman myself. My take on things is that if there will (which I hope not) be divorce in our case, I won't demand a single centavo from my husband nor will I get child support. I want to show the guy that my baby and I can perfectly survive without him and we can totally cut him out of our lives. I am not sure, I am not just the clingy type. It might be good. It might be bad.

Anyways, to the thread starter, I would say that if your wife did not put in a lot of effort to make your finances well while you were married, I don't think it is fair that she demands a lot. I just went to school in the US but not originally from there, I just find it weird that people are fine with strangers deciding on what goes on with their lives during and after the divorce. Read: Judges get to decide how much one party gets, how many visits one can have, etc...

Only the two people involved can really resolve things. Just my two cents.


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## Nicola B (Feb 3, 2010)

I live in Australia, so do not know your laws, but doesn't she have to pay her own lawyers fees out of her settlement? 

My advice is to get your settlement done as quickly as possible and have as little ongoing alimony so you can start building your self a new life. 

You are obviously angry but try to keep that under control while you deal with this divorce. Take up running and boxing, or meditation and yoga. Stay calm and make logical decisions not emotional ones (your wife is already making emotional decisions enough)
Good luck
Nicola Simple Divorce Advice


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Nicola B said:


> I live in Australia, so do not know your laws, but doesn't she have to pay her own lawyers fees out of her settlement?
> 
> My advice is to get your settlement done as quickly as possible and have as little ongoing alimony so you can start building your self a new life.
> 
> ...



Sound advice Nicola B. I zealously took up martial arts about 5 years ago when my marriage started to tank. I am now a second degree black belt in TKD. I have always ran and lifted my whole life. I grew up a wrestler, and exercise has always been the way I handle stress. At 40 I look 30.

For the record though, I think the meditation and yoga may have been the better route to go. I found that training aggressively has significantly hardened my persona. My Bishop friend has lovingly pointed out on many occasions, that my excessive training has made me more carnal e.g. more interested in physical things rather than spiritual things. To me, it's just been a nondestructive avenue to funnel a lot of anger.

My morning routine generally begins around 4:00 am and I train in clinic and at a gym that's conveniently located across from either of our clinics. I clock between 2-3 1/2 hours a day, depending on whether or not I have practice.

As for the money aspect, all of our accounts are joint; so in essence what is there is hers. She has always been free to use it as she pleases. Although, she was [email protected] surprised when I asked how her meeting with her lawyer went. I felt sorry for her, and generously informed her that she had wrote the name and address of her lawyer with the caption "meeting" on her desk day planner. The initial look on her face was priceless. She thought I was friggin psychic, or was having her followed. 

She was very noncommittal, about what was discussed in her meeting. I'm a Dr.. I'm very good at figuring out things with "small pieces" or limited information. She obviously is interested in keeping the house and friggin crippling me with as large an alimony payment as possible. No mystery there. 

She sadly isn't willing to make any of the changes that would be necessary to potentially save our union. She won't even take ownership to the fact that she is partially at fault for the failure of our marriage. She doesn't see a continual refusal for sex as something that would generally upset a husband. After all, she has already given me six kids, and she's tired at night i.e. 8:30-9:00 pm.. If I'm gone she'll be able to sleep, and she won't have to put up with my expectations. 

I should just move on with my life and find myself a professional woman with whom I could actually have a conversation with. In truth, I resent my wife. It's impossible to love someone you don't respect. It's just hard after 22 years to move on. Truth be told, she doesn't friggin even deserve me. Anyway, this is digressing into a rant.

LIL


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LIL: It's difficult at best to live with the one that you love and will be divorced! It seems that the process has started and things will need to be ironed out financially.

I am assuming you have a decent attorney and have an idea of what you want to give/get. 

There is no easy way to go through this...

I'm glad you're here to rant/vent/dispute!


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## Notaclue (Jan 1, 2010)

Sorry LIL , I know how you feel. Seems my W is trying to take it all also and espects to live a similar lifestyle. If she ever helped save one red cent, I'd be OK with a fair settlement. But for years I labored to cover her extravagant spending and lifestyle while investing every sent I could save and did very well. I bought clothes at Walmart so she could shop at Saks and Nordstroms. I resent the amount of money she is going to get because she never did a damn thing to help me save it. She will retire next year and I'll work for the rest of my life. I just hope Karma exists.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

lastinline said:


> I think "trap" is a tad dramatic Atholk. If the stay at home person takes their duties as seriously as someone in a quote "professional career", than in my humble opinion it's a beatiful thing, everyone in the family benefits.
> 
> I would agree that there is potential for abuse, but that's always the case with anything whether or not you "work" inside or outside the home. That's why it's important that you "partner up" with someone who is actually going to be a partner and contribute. I guess I learned that lesson a little too late. Rich girl = poor work ethic. Who would of thunk it?
> 
> LIL


We'll see how you feel a year after the divorce. You'll still be paying alimony and holding up your end of the marriage by supporting her finanically. She won't be cooking or cleaning at your apartment.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Yes, Atholk, but she will still be doing a lot of child care, at least in theory. And let's not forget the career sacrifices women generally make when agreeing to be a SAHM. I'm with LIL in thinking that it is never a smart idea, frankly--for men or women--to be SATparents for more than the very few years it usually takes to get kids to school age (well, with 6 kids, that's a lot more, but many families don't have more than 1-3 kids now). 

Women who work often have different attitudes toward divorce--duh, big surprise, I guess, if they have chosen NOT to fall into traditional gender roles. It is not an equal world out there, for one thing, and any family-related work loss also has an impact on a career (a couple years off with an infant, staying home when a child is sick, etc). Even working women will often bear these career sacrifices much more than their spouse. Other than that, though, a lot of working women have no intention of "taking the guy to the cleaners." They may need something to make the situation equitable, especially for the children's sake, but it's often a very small settlement. I know I asked for nothing but a bit of child support b/c my ex. had 10 more years on-the-job than me (and I took care of everything, and I mean everything, at home and with our child, while working part-time AND finishing an advanced degree, and then I made job decisions with his job and our family's needs ahead of my career path, all with his support). I want to get rid of the child support asap and am planning that--it will mean an eventual job change to increase my earnings so that I can support the kids in the same way as always, all by myself. But I'll do it.

There are a lot of grown up women out there and you can find them. I'd encourage guys to avoid the SAHM types. Not the ones who wants to stay home when the kids are little, but the ones who envision themselves as a "wife and mother" without any career aspirations for any part of their life. It's really hard to have a good balance in a marriage when we live in a society where worth is measured too often by money earned, no matter how hard each person tries--hard, not impossible--but a lot of people don't think it through and realize that their one salary is the result of a joint effort and really is equally the SAHparent's "salary" too.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

sisters359 said:


> I'd encourage guys to avoid the SAHM types.


This was my essential point.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I was a SAHM for 15 years! I would have traded it for the world. Yes, I took a hit career wise. OH FREAKING WELL! My kids deserved every day with me. My ex-h supported the venture and loved the fact that I stayed home and did everything. 

There is always a trade off. I don't wish to go into a battle of words. However, as long as it's mutually agree upon, then why not? Not one parent-type is better than the other. Studies have gone back and forth with this for years.

I'm now back in my career field-beginner style. I am one fortunate woman and love my life as it is...no regrets!

I have a reasonable amount of child support/spousal support for 3 years. After that..it drops. This was mutually agreed upon by my ex and myself-no attorneys involved.

Do what is right by your kids. That should always be the bottom line.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree with CW - my kids come first now. My W was also a SAHM for almost 15 years. It was a mutual agreement. However, even though we both agreed she would start looking for part time work as soon as the youngest was in school, she decided not to for the last 2 years. In addition, she also doesn't want to work now and is trying to rip more than her fair share out of me thru attorneys and vindictive actions. The best laid plans .......


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> I was a SAHM for 15 years! I would have traded it for the world. Yes, I took a hit career wise. OH FREAKING WELL! My kids deserved every day with me. My ex-h supported the venture and loved the fact that I stayed home and did everything.
> 
> There is always a trade off. I don't wish to go into a battle of words. However, as long as it's mutually agree upon, then why not? Not one parent-type is better than the other. Studies have gone back and forth with this for years.
> 
> ...



I hear what you are saying, but I think maintaining an intact home would be in our kids best interest. So obviously what is "best for the kids" has been taken off the table. I think your motives are pure CW, but the best way to protect the kids is simply to "guard" the marriage.

I would have loved it as well is my wife stayed home and "did everything." Instead she stays home and does very little. She is a good cook, but she doesn't cook anymore. She frequently reminds me that"take out is easier." It's also unhealthy as hell. However, "easier" is her mantra these days. Mine is still "worthwhile".

As for cleaning, the only cleaning that ever seemed to be done in my absence was by Jovita our old house cleaner. I'm just going to say it. I believe if you stay home, you need to put in a workday just like anyone else going "out the door". Being your own boss means you do more not less. At least that has been my own personal experience.

In her defense, it was I who suggested divorce after exhausting every reasonable possibility for reconciliation. In short, I'm happy she's attentive to my children, but I'm pissed she habitually neglects me. She says she doesn't need a husband. Based upon her actions and near criminal neglect, I'd say she's telling the truth. 

In my opinion, her primary job should have been wife. After 10 years of being told how "tired" she is at 9:00 pm at night, I'm just fed up of being in a celibate marriage. It seems like the only time she was "willing" was right at friggin ovulation, and then she'd get pregnant. I think Atholk is right with his whole Alpha ovulation theory thing.

For God's sake please don't tell me "I should of helped more around the house." I just finished cleaning the kitchen after dinner. I spent two hours killing weeds and cleaning the backyard today after practice, and I marshaled my older ones to sweep and mop while I was working. Furthermore, I'm home with 6 kids tonight while she's at the movies with her South African nurse friend. 

Her current kick is "I'm doing what I need to do for me." I'm not sure, but I thought it sounded a little selfish to me. Hell, I don't want to see patients Monday. I think I'd rather drive down to San Diego and spend the day at the beach. That being said, in clinic is where I'll be Monday, because ultimately it doesn't matter what I want. It only matters what I have to do. 
I can not begin to tell you how alien that sentiment is to my wife. It's a [email protected] shame. It'll cost her this marriage, and probably her next one too. 

No she's a crappy wife, and she is myopic enough to think her life will be magically better without me. She's wrong, and if her actions only effected her I could deal with it, but in my "steroid addled" opinion she is not capable of raising my children effectively. She is way to friggin permissive and liberal. At least in the home, I bring balance to her hippie insanity. I can hardly wait for the grades to drop, but she probably "saved" my 5 year old son from ever wanting to join the military, and my children will all learn the importance of "being happy". I'm not even sure WTF that means. I think it has something to do with doing nothing with your life and having someone else foot the bill.

LIL


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

It's like I'm listening to someone talk about my home life in 2009......sheesh!


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Atholk said:


> We'll see how you feel a year after the divorce. You'll still be paying alimony and holding up your end of the marriage by supporting her financially. She won't be cooking or cleaning at your apartment.


She doesn't do any of that now friend. Aside from loosing access to my kids which will Mega-suck, there isn't a downside to your scenario. For the record though Atholk, unless she has Perry Mason for her lawyer, and she doesn't his name is Lawrence, I'll do alright monetarily. 

I clean and iron for myself now as it is. Maybe, I'll be able to establish a meaningful relationship and finally have someone to share my life with. God, would that be a welcome change.

LIL


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## whattodo17 (Jan 12, 2010)

You know reading all this has p***** me off! 

After I gave birth to my daughter I stayed at home for almost a year. During that year I breastfed my daughter, cooked over a hot stove three meals a day, cleaned the house, did the laundry, did all the grocery shopping etc., THEN when my husband came home I ran his bath water and rubbed HIS feet at night....What do I get? Complained to and yelled at because I don't have a job! 

Not to mention after getting a job where I work over 40 hours a week EVERY week, I come home STILL clean the house, do the laundry, grocery shop, and take care of our 2 yr old daughter....it still isn't enough! I should do more he says. I'm a lazy B.....WTF! 

Now, after he has decided he is done with our marriage and is walking out....I am the one who is sitting here sulking while he is happy go lucky tra-la-la....Grrrrr

Ok, end rant, sorry. Just reading about all this makes me realize that I really did do a lot in our marriage, and here I was just analyzing myself thinking I didn't do enough.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

whattodo17 said:


> You know reading all this has pissed me off!
> 
> After I gave birth to my daughter I stayed at home for almost a year. During that year I breastfed my daughter, cooked over a hot stove three meals a day, cleaned the house, did the laundry, did all the grocery shopping etc., THEN when my husband came home I ran his bath water and rubbed HIS feet at night....What do I get? Complained to and yelled at because I don't have a job!
> 
> ...


Sorry, things went down that way for you. If it's any consolation my wife evened the score for the women's team. Seems that there are dirt bags on either side of the gender line. LIL


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## whattodo17 (Jan 12, 2010)

I reread that and sound like a whiny prude, sorry. LOL If there is a scum bag to be found don't worry they will find me! 

Sorry to hear your wife has done you the way she has.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

No matter what occurred in our marriages...for you LIL it's in your best interest to try to mediate as best possible. If that doesn't occur, get yourself a reasonable/assertive lawyer to watch out for your interests.

I have to say, no matter what you say, a SAHM with 6 kids is going to pull someone's heartstrings. So better off..doing without the court's opinion.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Atholk said:


> This was my essential point.


Now you tell me to avoid SAHM's Atholk. Well, maybe one of the purposes of my life is to serve as a warning to others.

LIL


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

lastinline said:


> I think Atholk is right with his whole Alpha ovulation theory thing.


I say that one because it's backed up with multiple science studies. I'd go into more of it on this board, but it becomes too much of a pick up artist discussion.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Cool, yesterday she started the process of refinancing our house. "Got to get those payments lower in order to stretch those alimony dollars." Gee, and she did that for the kids...what a great mom.

I don't think what children really need are five bedroom homes with swimming pools and Koi ponds. I think they need productive and healthy parents. WTF do I know though.

LIL


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

LIL: It's a normal reaction to overprocess what she does and says! I overanalyzed myself and my ex to death...my head was spinning.

I sooooo agree with you regarding healthy marriages being the best way to rear kiddos. However, how long do we need to do one-armed pushups? 

I refused to file for a divorce. I told him.."you want it, then you do the work." To tell you the truth, I might have filed at this point anyway as it was a freaking miserable existence.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Corpuswife said:


> LIL: It's a normal reaction to overprocess what she does and says! I overanalyzed myself and my ex to death...my head was spinning.
> 
> I sooooo agree with you regarding healthy marriages being the best way to rear kiddos. However, how long do we need to do one-armed pushups?
> 
> I refused to file for a divorce. I told him.."you want it, then you do the work." To tell you the truth, I might have filed at this point anyway as it was a freaking miserable existence.


You're right Corpuswife, the writing is on the wall. I am just stubbornly refusing to read it. My marriage is over and has been for a long time. At this point the divorce is nothing more than a formality, basically the funeral of an already departed friend. For the record, I was never good at one armed pushups CW, they always made my shoulder feel ooogy.

I feel for my kids as they really need both of us daily in their lives. My wife means well, but she just doesn't have the disposition or tools to effectively run a household. I'm not being cruel, it's an objective observation based upon....well prolonged observation.

I've set aside my Wednesday afternoon next week so I can interview friggin lawyers to "protect my/their interests". What an absolute waste of resources. 

LIL


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

That's exactly how I felt regarding hiring the attorney.

We agree upon uncontested (it was) but he hires a hot shot attorney after our discussion.

Guess what? I am FORCED to hire a hot shot attorney to protect my interests. I wasn't about to hire a poodle to go up against a pit bull. 

It all turned out fine but a total waste of money. We had mostly agreed upon everything...the attorney's didn't have to do much. No mediation was even required.

I understand that your divorce won't be that way...especially in CA. 

By the way, I interviewed (3) attorneys....go with your gut.


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## Help239 (Oct 20, 2009)

Mine kicks arse. LIL PM me if you want a referral. I do not know where you live. I too have been "reactive" on the legal side. Everything I have done has been in reaction to what my W has done legally. Yet, somehow I'M the one accused of delaying the process.

In my opinion, isn't it too late to ask "can't we all just get along" after you hit someone over the head repeatedly with a 2x4?


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

She had the audacity to demand an apology yesterday. She said I hadn't been being particularly nice to her. It was a little after 8:00 pm and I had just gotten home from our clinic. Needless to say, she hadn't left any food out for me. Why the frick would I be hungry after working 12 hours non-stop. I would think a man of my caliber would be just fine eating protein bars, myoplex, and half-caf coffee. 
Eating actual food is so over-rated. 

She then announced she was tired and left my 6th grader with her math 1/3 done, and me foraging for dinner. Gosh it must be real hard to be a SAHM, because I was up at 4:00 am yesterday for my run. I then went to the gym and lifted. Next, I treated patients for 12 hours before I came home to help my kids with their work and finished my charts, and I still wasn't as tired as she was. Poor thing, for the life of me I can't see why I wouldn't cherish this gem of a woman. Divorce is sounding better and better. Maybe she just doesn't want me to grieve for the loss of our marriage. She is a hell of a grief counselor. Every day I think I'll miss her less and less.

LIL


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Just make sure you are getting some fiber with all of that protein.

Did you ever get yourself that counselor like we prescribed, doc?

Have you got a refuge? You know, some place where however brief you can enjoy the moment and leave this sh!t behind? 

I get that the gym and your MA provides a very physical means of exorcising the impact of the succubus, but do you have a place of peace? Church? Yoga? Isolation tank ala "Altered States"?


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