# Don't know where to go from here...



## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Sorry if anything below is confusing. I combined a few posts I made from another section because I wasn't getting much feedback there.

My wife and I have been having problems lately. A couple of times now it’s been about chores but mostly the underlying reason is that when I do more of the work there are no issues, but any time my wife starts to do more than 50% there’s major fights.

We had a big fight a few nights ago. It started out about chores… I work full time and she is in the middle of a long break from school, she hasn’t had a single class for months. We still share the expenses because she has money from her parents but I have to work for it. 
She’s a messy person by nature and I’m not, and since I’ll barley be home a few hours everyday I said she should do the cleaning. She tried to tell me to handle all of the cooking and I told her I didn’t want to do that. On top of working I’m having big problems with my thyroid that makes me very fatigued everyday. We live in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment with no kids so in my mind cleaning should not be a big deal. I’m not even asking her to cook everyday, just once in a while. Since I’ve started this new job she made me lunch once that I took for a couple of days, but nothing other than that. 


Anyway, we were arguing in the car when she brought up my mom, who we had lots of problems with in the past and currently. It was completely out of context (she said she brought it up because I was brining up stuff from the past, which was about me picking up the slack for chores before) so I told her I don’t care and don’t want to hear about it, and then she got out of the car, slammed the door and walked away. 
She came back to our condo 2 hours later and I was already going to bed. At 5 in the morning she poured water on the bed so I couldn’t sleep and then we fought until I went to work. 

Yesterday after I came home I ate dinner, we spoke a couple of words about nothing, sat in silence for 20 minutes and then I fell asleep while sitting on the couch. 

In the past I would always try to find a solution to whatever problem we were having but I just didn't have any will to do it yesterday. We've been through a lot and it took a toll on me every time and now I'm at the point where I don't know if I want to put any more effort into it. 

The last few days have been a mess but I think I know what the main problem for me is now. She is very insecure and any time she's doing more work than me, which is not often, it frustrates her incredibly. A few days ago she told me that going to work doesn't matter to her because I would do it if I was with her or not, so it shouldn't count towards mey effort in our marriage. 
It seems like she wants to take that back now but it's not like her entire mentality is going to change all of a sudden, she just knows how upset that comment made me. 

Yesterday the apartment was very clean and it looks like she actually bought some new carpets too. After our fights she always makes an effort to make things better but the change is always very short lasting. I feel like I can never count on her to take care of me, but the reverse is always expected. For the last couple of months she has been complaining that I'm not very loving towards her, that I don't kiss her often or tell her I love her. She also assumed it's my fault that I'm not doing it. She never thought to look at herself to see why I don't feel like doing it anymore. 

I think she doesn't know how serious it is this time around. She probably thinks we're equally at fault where I don't think that at all. I am not going to stay in a relationship where my wife expects everything of me and nothing of herself. I'm going to work everyday while she's at home and she still wants me to take care of dinner everyday if she takes care of the tiny bit of cleaning she'll have to do for me. 
Since our fight she's been sleeping in the living room and she actually said that she can't sleep next to me because she would be disgusted with herself. Doing a tiny bit of work for your husband makes you feel disgusted with yourself now??? 
I don't know what I'll say to her today but this is never what I imagined marriage to be. 

IMO I think it’s her mom and step mom’s lifestyle getting in her head. Both of them make the money and their husbands are basically stay at home dads. On top of that it seems like she has major insecurities about being a “servant” to a man.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Yeah, phoenix_ when you marry a princess, you have to expect to be treated like a servant.

So you have a couple of options here.

You are young and have no children with her, so calling it a day and going your separate ways is an option.

Or you can stay with her.

I like this one a lot, based on what you have said.

She will eventually maybe get a degree, but when she starts working full time, do you really think she is going to help you with chores? She'll be too busy keeping score on who dusted last to just take care of business.

And then, children! They're awesome, and they're messy. And she sounds like the kind of gal that will arbitrarily declare that being a SAHM counts for as much as you working a full time job and you also doing all the chores.

You may not know where to go from here, and you probably don't realize it, but you actually ARE at a crossroads in life, and the decision you make now is going to have major consequences to you for years to come.

No pressure......


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

She just poured water on the bed after being out late and picks fights about your mother and doesn't appreciate your hard work in PROVIDING For her?

Ew. Spoiled princess alert. And a bit psycho too.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Your wife is being inconsiderate and selfish.

Money aside, you work and she should be doing her end of things (cleaning/cooking etc).

All of your concerns are valid. Tell her that it has to be more long lasting and not for short period of time.

If it doesn't change, put the hammer down and tell her you are considering divorce. 

The balance is off, it's NOT 50/50 when it comes to effort. You work, and she should be putting in similar effort on her end as well.

Meanwhile, take her concerns seriously. Show her more love and address your end. Lead by EXAMPLE. Her concerns on that end are valid!!!

Hope she realizes what she is doing wrong and adjusts.....good luck


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I gave advice on your other thread, but you didn't think it was good enough. It's your choice if you want to try it or not, but I think it could be a big help to fix the issue.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Where you go is to tell her - write it if you have to, if you're not strong enough - that if something doesn't change, you'll be moving out. Then she can clean it ALL or live in filth.

Include that you're more than willing to go to therapy for this. Just don't expect her to go a second time when the MC tells her that since she's at home, it's her job to do 75% of the housework.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

DoF said:


> Your wife is being inconsiderate and selfish.
> 
> Money aside, you work and she should be doing her end of things (cleaning/cooking etc).
> 
> ...


I really did try to show more affection but sometimes I would come home and see the apartment a mess after asking her to clean it for days. Times like that the last thing I wanted to do was kiss her and tell her I love her. I would just go and play video games or something else instead.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, just because she ticks you off isn't a green light for you to stop being a husband. 

Have you tried writing up a chore chart?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

that_girl said:


> She just poured water on the bed after being out late and picks fights about your mother and doesn't appreciate your hard work in PROVIDING For her?
> 
> Ew. Spoiled princess alert. And a bit psycho too.


I don't really provide for her, we share the expenses. Personally, I wish I was able to contribute more than 50% but I was out of work for 6 months so I just used whatever I had in savings before we got married to pay for half.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

NotLikeYou said:


> Yeah, phoenix_ when you marry a princess, you have to expect to be treated like a servant.
> 
> So you have a couple of options here.
> 
> ...


This is a big concern of mine. We were planning on having kids maybe 4 years from now and she would stay home for a year while I work. I can't imagine what type of problems would show up at that time.

She loves animals and we have a rabbit (that I never wanted). She makes extravegant play pens for it and she buys high quality food and makes sure it's never even close to short supply. I feel stupid being jealous of an animal sometimes but it happens.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

The classic Oscar and Felix combination.

Her idea of messy isn't the same as yours. Actually, I think I'd be driven insane by a neat freak you seem to be. Seriously, hire a cleaning service and you both pay half.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

turnera said:


> Well, just because she ticks you off isn't a green light for you to stop being a husband.
> 
> Have you tried writing up a chore chart?


:iagree:

Both of you are adding to this bad cycle. You get mad at her and treat her worse(avoiding her, showing less affection). Then she is upset from not getting affection and not feeling appreciated, so she does less work around the house and so on. 

See the cycle?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Revamped said:


> The classic Oscar and Felix combination.
> 
> Her idea of messy isn't the same as yours. Actually, I think I'd be driven insane by a neat freak you seem to be. Seriously, hire a cleaning service and you both pay half.


How did I come off as a neat freak? I was basically asking her to clean up after herlself by not leaving clothes all over the floor, banana peels on the couch and ice cream containers in bed. Is that too much to ask?

Also, our washer and dryer doesn't work so I've been going to the laundromat on weekends. She came with me the last time.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Her tolerance for clutter is much higher than yours. Have you ever just let it go to see if she'll do it on her own? Or do you just automatically jump in and clean up and/or complain until she does?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Well, just because she ticks you off isn't a green light for you to stop being a husband.
> 
> Have you tried writing up a chore chart?


How did I stop being a husband? When you keep asking for some help and never get it then the natural reaction is to feel less love. I never stopped doing things for her, I just felt less affection and it showed. By your definition she stopped being a wife long before anything I did. 

I was against having a chore chart. I don't like the idea of keeping score, it makes me feel like we're just roomates or something. I feel like a loving wife would want to do more for a husband who's spending all day working when she's home. Why should we still split things 50/50? 
There were a couple of months where she didn't lift a finger in the house and I did everything. The only thing I asked of her was to not intentionally make a mess everywhere. I didn't talk about chore charts or anything. 

I also made dinner many times and never asked her to clean up after me once. Every time she cooked in the past I either did all of the clean up or the majority of it, except for maybe 1 or 2 times. I asked her recently if she could start cooking since I don't have much time and she said the only way she would is if I agree to clean up after her. She's making it a requirement when she cooks but when I cook this rule doesn't come into play. 
The most annoying part is that she knows I would help her because I've done it every time in the past, but she has to make it known that it's part of the law. I can't stand that mentality.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Her tolerance for clutter is much higher than yours. Have you ever just let it go to see if she'll do it on her own? Or do you just automatically jump in and clean up and/or complain until she does?


If I don't say anything it will get to the point that we can't walk through the place without bumping into clutter.
The only time she cleans of her own will is when she has to study.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anonymous07 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Both of you are adding to this bad cycle. You get mad at her and treat her worse(avoiding her, showing less affection). Then she is upset from not getting affection and not feeling appreciated, so she does less work around the house and so on.
> 
> See the cycle?


This didn't happen overnight. There were many opportunities for her to do something about it before I started to get sour.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

If her lack of domestic skills are bothering you, you have a choice to hire help or continue the ranting.

I go for the path of success and would hire a cleaning service to solve the issue. You will not be able to change who she is. She hates cleaning.

Somehow, I doubt this has much to do with her slobbish nature...


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Revamped said:


> Somehow, I doubt this has much to do with her slobbish nature...


:iagree: The cleaning problem is a symptom of a deeper issue(such as feeling appreciated, loved, etc., which may be part of it from what I've read).


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Anonymous07 said:


> :iagree: The cleaning problem is a symptom of a deeper issue(such as feeling appreciated, loved, etc., which may be part of it from what I've read).


You keep making that assumption but it's not correct. 

The cleaning issue is part of a deeper problem, and that is that she is always keeping tabs to make sure that she never does more than half of the work even though I've done that for almost our entire marriage.

She has no respect for the fact that I work all day and she has basically told me that. She actually poured water on me while I was sleeping to make sure that I can't get rest before work, while I'm already sick with a thyroid problem that causes me to be fatigued. You can imagine that it's not the first time something like that has happened. Am I supposed to shower her with affection for that?

You're most likely taking her side because she's a woman and not looking at the situation as it actually is.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Oh, so now we get to the root of it.

She doesn't respect you.

Ok, now we're getting somewhere.

So, when she poured water on you, how did you react?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Oh, so now we get to the root of it.
> 
> She doesn't respect you.
> 
> ...


I wrote that in my first post. 

This was after she stormed out of the car and then complained that I didn't go running after her.
Anyway, I told her that was stupid and then I tried to go back to sleep because I was dead tired. Eventually we started fighting until I had to go to work. It's always me that tries to find a solution when we fight and this time I didn't care enough to do that and that made her upset. That's also why we've made no progress in the last couple of days. I'm not messaging her or trying to find a solution and she's staying quiet.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You tried to go back to sleep in a wet bed? Kudos for that....

Eventually, the arguing started. Was it about one particular thing or a mish-mash of all topics that you're both pissed about?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Revamped said:


> You tried to go back to sleep in a wet bed? Kudos for that....
> 
> Eventually, the arguing started. Was it about one particular thing or a mish-mash of all topics that you're both pissed about?


It was a mish-mash. 
I also told her that I was angry when she said that me going to work doesn't count towards any effort in our marriage, since it's not for her direct benefit. I said she doesn't respect me and that showed again when she poured water on me. I also told her that I think she resents me because I don't pay for more than half.
I don't know if that's true but it was something I felt for a while so I said it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> How did I stop being a husband?





> I would come home and see the apartment a mess after asking her to clean it for days. Times like that the last thing I wanted to do was kiss her and tell her I love her. I would just go and play video games or something else instead.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> How did I come off as a neat freak? I was basically asking her to clean up after herself by not leaving clothes all over the floor, banana peels on the couch and ice cream containers in bed. Is that too much to ask?


Not at all. People are just pointing out - as you know - that what you've been doing doesn't work. But usually, there's what you want, and there's what she wants, and there's somewhere in between that the two of you can compromise on, when it comes to level of cleanliness. At MB, they say 'let the person who it bothers the most do the [fill in] chore'; and let the other person do a chore that doesn't matter as much to you. That's where the chore chart comes in.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Not at all. People are just pointing out - as you know - that what you've been doing doesn't work. But usually, there's what you want, and there's what she wants, and there's somewhere in between that the two of you can compromise on, when it comes to level of cleanliness. At MB, they say 'let the person who it bothers the most do the [fill in] chore'; and let the other person do a chore that doesn't matter as much to you. That's where the chore chart comes in.


What should the split be if I'm working full time and she's at home all day?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> It's always me that tries to find a solution when we fight


And, now you know, this is the part that isn't working. She wants a man she can respect. So teach her how to respect you. It should be YOU leaving when she disrespects you, not the other way around. Stop falling into the mess.

Frankly, at this point, you guys aren't going to make it without MC.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> What should the split be if I'm working full time and she's at home all day?


Assuming she's not currently attending school, and you live in an apartment (no 'male' duties like lawncare or chopping down trees), I would go for 75% her and 25% you. And the 'you' part would be those things that matter most to you. For example, cleaning the kitchen was my 'chore' growing up; so I can't STAND to set foot inside my kitchen now, as an adult. H knows this, so he does most of the cooking and we split the cleaning of the kitchen. But I do all the laundry, sweeping, dusting, organizing. If he waited for ME to cook every night or to keep the dirty dishes cleaned and put away, he'd be pulling his hair out just like you are, because _I wouldn't get it done_; I'd find every other thing in the world to do BUT that, I hate it so much.

Of course this is all moot unless you are willing to put your foot down and say 'this changes or I walk; now what are you willing to do?'


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

turnera said:


> phoenix_ said:
> 
> 
> > How did I stop being a husband?
> ...


There's a whole thread on here about gamers. How is going to play video games ceasing to be a husband? Every day, for hours and hours, sure, but this one example? Kind of a leap...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

changedbeliefs said:


> There's a whole thread on here about gamers. How is going to play video games ceasing to be a husband? Every day, for hours and hours, sure, but this one example? Kind of a leap...


Depends on how long he was playing.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

phoenix_ said:


> This is a big concern of mine. We were planning on having kids maybe 4 years from now and she would stay home for a year while I work. I can't imagine what type of problems would show up at that time.
> 
> She loves animals and we have a rabbit (that I never wanted). She makes extravagant play pens for it and she buys high quality food and makes sure it's never even close to short supply. I feel stupid being jealous of an animal sometimes but it happens.


Dang, phoenix_, now you're getting drawn into arguments with commenters on your own thread!

Look, man. Your partner is supposed to mostly make you better, to lift you up. And you're supposed to do the same for them. You compensate for each other's weaknesses and failings, and the sum is greater than the parts.

You have to like and respect each other, and it doesn't sound to me like you two are anywhere near that state of emotions.

Your wife keeps careful track to make sure that she doesn't contribute more to the relationship than you do. She lavishes care and attention on a rodent. She disrespects you so much that, knowing you have a health condition that causes extra fatigue, she deliberately interrupts your sleep, and then prevents you from going back to sleep again.

If you're looking for sympathy, good grief do you have mine.

If you're looking for validation and support, well, yeah, it sounds like your marriage is really crappy.

If you're looking for a solution that will lead to you being happier in life than you are now, initiate divorce proceedings and never look back.

Now, I know, you just read that and said, "damn, that's a little extreme. There has to be some middle ground."

There is. You can go to counseling, develop a chore list, or waste your time on whatever else you think will fix things. In the mean time, your wife will continue to make sure that she does less, and will look for opportunities to skimp, slide, and cut corners on her responsibilities.

Then, you'll have kids with her, she'll have you by the financial balls, and its game over, man.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here, because from the outside looking in, the answers are 100% clear. Whatever you're searching for, I hope you find it!


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

NotLikeYou said:


> Dang, phoenix_, now you're getting drawn into arguments with commenters on your own thread!
> 
> Look, man. Your partner is supposed to mostly make you better, to lift you up. And you're supposed to do the same for them. You compensate for each other's weaknesses and failings, and the sum is greater than the parts.
> 
> ...


You're right. I know that counselling is probably the only answer. 

I will talk to her today but I really wish she would step up and actually be the one to initiate things this time instead of it always being me. I'm going to specifically ask her a few things. 

- Why does she make a rule for me cleaning after her when she cooks but not the opposite?
- Why does she want to split chores 50/50 when I'm working full time and she's at home all day?
- Why does she think it's fair to say that the time I spend at work doesn't count for anything?
- Why does she want me to hear all about her day when I come home telling her about pain in my knee (which was operated on recently) and her response is "So what? suck it up"

I'm going to ask her to think about why thoughts like this would enter her mind to begin with. Like I said before, I think she's very insecure about sexism in general and is overcompensating for it by treating me like garbage.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Lol! What a way to start WWlll!

You need some work on effective communication skills. Going in defensive and antagonistic is sure to piss her off.

How about...
-I feel we can share the duties of cooking and cleaning together. If you cook, I'll clean and when "I" cook, you do the dishes.
-With working a forty hour work week, I feel my financial contribution helps us maintain the quality of life we've become accustomed to. 
-When I come home from work, I'd like to be able to vent to you about it for, say 15 minutes and then we can discuss yours.


When you actually approach this as a discussion instead of a ***** session, you just might get what it is you're after.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> - Why does she make a rule for me cleaning after her when she cooks but not the opposite?
> - Why does she want to split chores 50/50 when I'm working full time and she's at home all day?
> - Why does she think it's fair to say that the time I spend at work doesn't count for anything?
> - Why does she want me to hear all about her day when I come home telling her about pain in my knee (which was operated on recently) and her response is "So what? suck it up"


Because she can. Because she does it and you allow it. Why would she think any differently? We teach people how to respect us.



phoenix_ said:


> I'm going to ask her to think about *why thoughts like this would enter her mind to begin with*. Like I said before, I think she's very insecure about sexism in general and is overcompensating for it by treating me like garbage.


Yeah, that's the ticket. Attack her and then expect her to want to see your side.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Lol! What a way to start WWlll!
> 
> You need some work on effective communication skills. Going in defensive and antagonistic is sure to piss her off.
> 
> ...


It's been like this for too long. I've tried that approach many times and nothing came of it. 

Her pouring that water on me after storming off was the last straw.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Because she can. Because she does it and you allow it. Why would she think any differently? We teach people how to respect us.
> 
> Yeah, that's the ticket. Attack her and then expect her to want to see your side.


I don't care, I'm just going to be completely upfront. 
I shouldn't have to teach her how to respect me, it should be a given. I didn't need to be taught, we're not children.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> It's been like this for too long. I've tried that approach many times and nothing came of it.
> 
> *Her pouring that water on me after storming off was the last straw.*


No it wasn't. If it was the last straw you'd have filed by now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You teach people how to respect you by not putting up with their poor behavior.

You seem to have an enormous chip on your shoulder, now that you have an audience. I hope you can turn that into productive changes, instead of just wanting to get back at your wife.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Argh. phoenix_, I don't think you're getting anywhere productive.

And for the record, I think it is a completely messed up thread when I am asking other posters to help, rather than have them asking me to quit being a b^tthead to OP.

Okay, let's try this.

phoenix_, part of the reason you're getting challenged is, I think, that you haven't offered any reason whatsoever why you're still with this person. And most commenters on TAM are horrified at the thought of getting water dumped on us while we are fast asleep. 

You're married to this person, who doesn't seem to love or respect you. You are having big conflicts over small things, which does not augur well for the future.

Give us something to work with.

Sing your wife's praises. Tell us about the things she DOES bring to the table, that partially offset making you miserable, wet, and tired. Tell us what appeals to her, what works with her, what she likes, and maybe we can give you some helpful insight or some useful points to make, since you are bound and determined to try and talk your way through this.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

NotLikeYou said:


> Argh. phoenix_, I don't think you're getting anywhere productive.
> 
> And for the record, I think it is a completely messed up thread when I am asking other posters to help, rather than have them asking me to quit being a b^tthead to OP.
> 
> ...


Well, when we first got married she used to take care of me pretty well. She was in summer school going to class twice a week but she would actually wake up early just to make me breakfast. It wasn't all the time but I really appreciated the effort she put in. 
We usually have a lot of fun together because we have a lot of similar interests. 

Lately I've just been on cruise control because I've been unhappy for a while. You can check one of my earlier threads actually.
I didn't want to do anything drastic so I figured I would just coast until something pushes me until I can't take it anymore. I guess I've come to that point. Definitely not the healthiest way to deal with it but the situation took it's toll on me.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Wow.

I had tons of responses. I just deleted them all because 1. You wouldn't hear me and 2. You really aren't worth the effort.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> Well, when we first got married she used to take care of me pretty well.


The PEA chemicals of attraction - the ones that make you want to take care of each other - stay in your body for from 3 to 5 years; then they fade away. Nature's security for procreation. What's left after that is up to the two of you. Marriage takes work. It takes conditional love. It takes communication. It takes boundaries and consequences (such as for pouring water on you in bed). If she no longer takes care of you it's because she doesn't care, most likely because she doesn't believe you're going anywhere. 

That said, just saying, "B*tch, I'm tired of your attitude, I deserve better than you, so I'm leaving," isn't likely to get her to suddenly care. For some reason SHE isn't getting what she wants, either. If you want to keep her, it behooves you to figure out what SHE is thinking, so you can work with that.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> The PEA chemicals of attraction - the ones that make you want to take care of each other - stay in your body for from 3 to 5 years; then they fade away. Nature's security for procreation. What's left after that is up to the two of you. Marriage takes work. It takes conditional love. It takes communication. It takes boundaries and consequences (such as for pouring water on you in bed). If she no longer takes care of you it's because she doesn't care, most likely because she doesn't believe you're going anywhere.
> 
> That said, just saying, "B*tch, I'm tired of your attitude, I deserve better than you, so I'm leaving," isn't likely to get her to suddenly care. For some reason SHE isn't getting what she wants, either. If you want to keep her, it behooves you to figure out what SHE is thinking, so you can work with that.



We didn't get a chance to talk last night because she had things to do and got home around midnight. She also has a trip planned for the weekend with her friend so she'll be gone for a few days. I told her lets talk on Monday when she's back. 

When I got to work this morning she sent me a text saying that she went to a counsiller to learn how to respect her husband and she'll be going every week. She apologized for how she's been acting and even bought me a gift. I knew she would make some effort but I didn't expect this level so I'm very happy about that. Hopefully things will improve soon and we can rebuild what we had.
She also said that she thinks she picked up these habits from her mom and step mom.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nice!


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

I've hit another frustrating point.

There's a long weekend coming up and I kept telling my wife that I want to go somewhere with her for a few days and we talked about a few ideas. We didn't book anything but I was actively looking for places to go. Anyway, 3 days ago we were having dinner with my dad and she mentions that she's going to Montreal with her friend for that same weekend. She didn't say she's sorry she can't go with me or she'll try to get out of it, she just said that's where she's going and that was it.

Needless to say, I was pretty pissed. Normally I would wait until my dad left to talk to her about it but I guess I don't care the same way I did before. The rest of the night I didn't really talk to her much and for the next few hours I just did my normal stuff and then we went to bed. Well, she noticed that I wasn't really happy but she didn't know why. Instead of saying anything during the night she waited for the exact moment that my eyes started to shut to fall asleep and then she started a fight with me about how I wasn't being affectionate with her. I know that I could have communicated better but I'm so tired of having to teach her how to respect me and this is another perfect example. She intentionally waited to find the worst possible time, knowing that I have a lot of trouble sleeping well. I went into work the next day with 3 hours of sleep of felt like crap the whole time.

Anyway, during the fight she also brought up wanting to adopt the rabbit that we were fostering that somebody else is looking after right now. I am completely against having rabbits but she won't drop it. She said it's a comfort for her and she wants it back, even though during it's time here it chewed 4 laptop chargers, 2 headset cables, 15 feet of the bottom panel of our wall and left chewed up pieces of cardboard everywhere. We live in a tiny condo and it's cage takes up a lot of space and if it's here I can never leave anything like my laptop lying anywhere because I never know what it'll do. I told my wife that I want to relax when I come home and I can't when it's here but she says that she'll make sure it doesn't do anything but she's always said that and never followed through. 

On top of all of this we have a religious event coming up and I asked her to come with me to my mom's house that night since it's tradition to be with family and she kept talking about how she has school assignments to do. It's only about 1-2 hours in the evening and it took me so much convincing to get her to come. 

We also haven't had sex in almost 2 weeks. This is not something I'm complaining about, it's just that so many frustrating things keep happening and it's really killing my attraction for her. She's even tried to initiate after our fight recently but I did not feel like touching or being close with her. This has been pretty common for the last few months... I feel myself being less attracted to her every time some incident like this happens.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Wow.
> 
> I had tons of responses. I just deleted them all because 1. You wouldn't hear me and 2. You really aren't worth the effort.


You should stop assuming you know more about my situation than I do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> I've hit another frustrating point.
> 
> There's a long weekend coming up and I kept telling my wife that I want to go somewhere with her for a few days and we talked about a few ideas. We didn't book anything but I was actively looking for places to go. Anyway, 3 days ago we were having dinner with my dad and she mentions that she's going to Montreal with her friend for that same weekend. She didn't say she's sorry she can't go with me or she'll try to get out of it, she just said that's where she's going and that was it.
> 
> ...


Phoenix, this entire post is all about your inability, or unwillingness, or lack of knowledge of HOW to, JUST SAY NO. To say "I'm not ok with that." Have you read NMMNG and MMSLP yet?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

The second she mentioned that she had plans to spend the weekend in Montreal with a friend, any reason why you didn't immediately confront her on it and tell her that was unacceptable because we were making plans to spend that weekend together? I don't understand why you choose to withdraw and cut off talking with her instead of confronting the issue right away?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Exactly. The instant she said that, you could have politely (not in a provoking way) said "Wife, we've been discussing going somewhere that weekend. Are you now saying that you decided we weren't? It would have been nice to hear that first, rather than to hear your new plans. I'd like to talk about this tonight."


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## rwun2014 (Jul 28, 2014)

I would suggest you be nice to her for 3 months...and make her feel that you love her...if she changes her attitude towards you/home and it works out , then good, else you decide if you want to move on...frankly such situations are there for lot of families..there are even women who don't even contribute financially...so don't move out thinking you will get better next time...it can go worse as well...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

rwun2014 said:


> I would suggest you be nice to her for 3 months...and make her feel that you love her...if she changes her attitude towards you/home and it works out , then good, else you decide if you want to move on...frankly such situations are there for lot of families..there are even women who don't even contribute financially...so don't move out thinking you will get better next time...it can go worse as well...


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

You earn all the money and do all the cleaning. No sex, lots of fights and she blows off what you want to do. 

Aside from stress, what is she bringing to the table? How are you benefited by being married to her? Make a list of all the reasons you have for staying married to her, lets see how many of them are positive reasons.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The second she mentioned that she had plans to spend the weekend in Montreal with a friend, any reason why you didn't immediately confront her on it and tell her that was unacceptable because we were making plans to spend that weekend together? I don't understand why you choose to withdraw and cut off talking with her instead of confronting the issue right away?


Actually I told her twice on the spot, flat out, that she's not going with her friend and that we're going somewhere. Her response was "I have to because she wants me to go". So, after that I stopped caring.

2 days ago she said that she'll go with me but I told her it's too late to book anything good. I also don't want to go with her so I'm not going to bother looking anymore. Even though she changed her mind afterwards I'm just turned off that I had to fight for something like this.

Anyway, I spent a lot of time trying to teach her how to respect me and I don't see why I needed to do it in the first place. Nobody had to teach me how to respect my wife. All I see is her trying to take advantage of me and me trying to prevent her from doing it, it's just stupid and should never happen in a healthy marriage. Am I going to have to "train" her for the rest of our marriage?

She made some good progress after our last fight but it's like she's reverted back in so many ways.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> You earn all the money and do all the cleaning. No sex, lots of fights and she blows off what you want to do.
> 
> Aside from stress, what is she bringing to the table? How are you benefited by being married to her? Make a list of all the reasons you have for staying married to her, lets see how many of them are positive reasons.


I don't earn all of the money. She has money that she got from her parents and we split expenses 50/50. Also, the low sex part is because of me, I'm just not in the mood to have sex with her anymore. It could partially be because my health has been poor lately. Although, I still think about sex a lot, I just don't want to initiate anything with her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> Actually *I told her* twice on the spot *that she's not going *with her friend and that we're going somewhere. Her response was "I have to because she wants me to go". So, after that *I stopped caring*.
> 
> 2 days ago she said that she'll go with me but I *told her it's too late* to book anything good. I also *don't want to go with her* so I'm *not going to bother *looking anymore.
> 
> ...


You're obviously not here to learn anything. Just to gripe. Good luck.


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## tennisstar (Dec 19, 2011)

I don't know the OP's history, but aren't some of you being harsh? It definitely seems his wife has a lack of respect for him. Who pours water on a sleeping person or wakes him up when he falls asleep to argue? Only someone who doesn't care. Who says his working doesn't matter? A spoiled princess.

I know several spoiled princesses. They are difficult. I think the OP is wasting his time. If he has children, it will be 100 times worse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, we've already agreed with him that she's messed up big time. At the same time, we've tried to show him ways he can change HIS side of the street - since you can't change another person - yet it all remains her fault.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

NotLikeYou said:


> Dang, phoenix_, now you're getting drawn into arguments with commenters on your own thread!
> 
> Look, man. Your partner is supposed to mostly make you better, to lift you up. And you're supposed to do the same for them. You compensate for each other's weaknesses and failings, and the sum is greater than the parts.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't encourage you to start down the road to divorce just yet. I will say though that I notice some red flags to make one wonder whether your wife's personality is hovering at the extreme of the human soectrum (the negative extreme). 

does she ever apologize, verbally, for anything she says or does? in terms of arguments it sounds as if she "always has to win" - which might explain why she needs to hold a grudge until she does (i.e. you relent in some major way). is she frequwntly that volatile (getting out of the car and walking, splashing you with water while you're sleeping etc.)? how mean do her words get during your arguments?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I wouldn't encourage you to start down the road to divorce just yet. I will say though that I notice some red flags to make one wonder whether your wife's personality is hovering at the extreme of the human soectrum (the negative extreme).
> 
> does she ever apologize, verbally, for anything she says or does? in terms of arguments it sounds as if she "always has to win" - which might explain why she needs to hold a grudge until she does (i.e. you relent in some major way). is she frequwntly that volatile (getting out of the car and walking, splashing you with water while you're sleeping etc.)? how mean do her words get during your arguments?


Her words can get very bad in arguments but normally she does apologize afterwards, but it's getting to the point that sorry isn't enough.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> No, we've already agreed with him that she's messed up big time. At the same time, we've tried to show him ways he can change HIS side of the street - since you can't change another person - yet it all remains her fault.


You were partially right before, I am here to vent about a lot of my frustrations because I don't have any other outlets for it. 

I have to see if I'm willing to change anything else from my side. I don't feel like I should be constantly coaching her to be respectful of me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm not explaining well today. I don't want you to change anything about yourself so that you get something different from HER. I want you to look at yourself and see where you compromise your rules (your N.U.T.S.) in your daily life, and see WHY you do it, and figure out how to STOP doing it. Not for her, not even about her, but about your own life in general. 

Once you realize that you shouldn't be making ANY decisions based on whether they elicit a response from another person, you will be free. And sane. And happy.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> I'm not explaining well today. I don't want you to change anything about yourself so that you get something different from HER. I want you to look at yourself and see where you compromise your rules (your N.U.T.S.) in your daily life, and see WHY you do it, and figure out how to STOP doing it. Not for her, not even about her, but about your own life in general.
> 
> Once you realize that you shouldn't be making ANY decisions based on whether they elicit a response from another person, you will be free. And sane. And happy.


I feel like I'm getting there. 
I just started texting my wife and she's telling me to pick her up from the gym tonight before going to dinner. Before she told me she had to study and I had to bargain with her to make time to go tonight and now apparently she'll be at the gym. 
Her crap is really starting to pile up. I just told her I'm going alone now. I'm tired of dealing with this.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you TELLING her this stuff? Or just thinking it and stewing over it?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> Are you TELLING her this stuff? Or just thinking it and stewing over it?


The part that I just mentioned? I said I texted her.

She told me she's tired of hearing that I'm not being respected and then I brought up that night how she ignored the trip I was planning and now she fought with me right as I was sleeping. Now, she's not responding.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

I don't know if I'm giving the impression that I don't stand up for myself, but I do. It's just that this kind of stuff keeps happening.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

phoenix_ said:


> Now, she's not responding.


Good. Leave it that way for now. If she tries to get into why you're not interacting, '*shrug* You made it clear you have other priorities than me, so I'm not going to bust my butt trying to get water from a turnip. I've got other stuff in my life going on.'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What have you read about boundaries?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

phoenix_ said:


> I don't earn all of the money. She has money that she got from her parents and we split expenses 50/50. Also, the low sex part is because of me, I'm just not in the mood to have sex with her anymore. It could partially be because my health has been poor lately. Although, I still think about sex a lot, I just don't want to initiate anything with her.


Is this the list of what she brings to the marriage? She pays 50% of the expenses with her families money and the lack of sex is because she doesn't turn you on. These are the reasons you're still with her?


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

I haven't read anything about boundries? How does it relate?

She texted me back saying that she told my mom she was coming so she still wants to come but I told her not to. She didn't fess up to making excuses about studying to not come and I don't want to see her there tonight.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Is this the list of what she brings to the marriage? She pays 50% of the expenses with her families money and the lack of sex is because she doesn't turn you on. These are the reasons you're still with her?


Well the lack of sex is still on me because I haven't been attracted to her much lately, she still wants it.

When we're not fighting we do have fun together, and after our last fight she was starting to do the vast majority of the cleaning since I'm working all day and she's only out for a few of hours a day for school.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A boundary is basically like what you're doing about the dinner. "If you disrespect me, I will remove myself from your vicinity for the evening." Like when my H yells at me, I leave the room. 

It's not controlling the other person, it's telling them (or showing them) what YOU will do if you are hurt in some way. They are then free to decide to stop doing things to hurt you, to avoid the consequence.


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

phoenix_ said:


> The part that I just mentioned? I said I texted her.
> 
> She told me she's tired of hearing that I'm not being respected and then I brought up that night how she ignored the trip I was planning and now she fought with me right as I was sleeping. Now, she's not responding.





phoenix_ said:


> I don't know if I'm giving the impression that I don't stand up for myself, but I do. It's just that this kind of stuff keeps happening.





phoenix_ said:


> I haven't read anything about boundries? How does it relate?
> 
> She texted me back saying that she told my mom she was coming so she still wants to come but I told her not to. She didn't fess up to making excuses about studying to not come and I don't want to see her there tonight.


The part you just mentioned? You should either have told her in person, or blown her off after she pulled her latest stunt. Texting is weak. See, the part where you wrote about your wife, "Now, she's not responding?" SHE'S DOING IT RIGHT.

And continuing along, I feel compelled to note that if "this kind of stuff keeps happening," then you're probably NOT actually standing up for yourself correctly.

Boundaries are things you set in place as to how you are willing to be treated. So, yeah, you haven't read about them and have no idea how they relate to your situation.

Here's an example of healthy boundaries:

You refuse to be married to someone who is verbally and emotionally abusive to you. If they keep abusing you, you make it clear that you won't be there in the long term, and if they don't take immediate steps to change, such as attending counseling and changing their behavior, you initiate divorce proceedings.

Here's an example of un-healthy boundaries:

Your wife is verbally and emotionally abusive to you. You keep taking it.

phoenix_, back in my original post, I said "there must be some middle ground" in quotes, and proceeded to list a few things off.

But see, I meant that in the context of "wasting your time instead of taking decisive action," because your situation was so miserable that I felt the need to be polite, out of sympathy.

Dude, you're wasting your time. This is not the wife you're looking for.

Although based on your sticking with it, maybe she is EXACTLY the wife you're looking for. 

Is that messed up, or what?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OK

Put any/all plans for children completely on hold.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

phoenix_ said:


> Actually I told her twice on the spot, flat out, that she's not going with her friend and that we're going somewhere. Her response was "I have to because she wants me to go". So, after that I stopped caring.
> 
> 2 days ago she said that she'll go with me but I told her it's too late to book anything good. I also don't want to go with her so I'm not going to bother looking anymore. Even though she changed her mind afterwards I'm just turned off that I had to fight for something like this.
> 
> ...


Had to jump in on this one,

Phoenix, this is very much like the way my ex behaved. From that perspective, I will share some perspective and what I think you should do. And, yes it might have something to do with her upbringing or the company she keeps presently.

You say she has an entitlement mindset (negative connotation). From her perspective, she is making reasonable requests and you are falling short. The problem I see up front is you guys have very different marriage paradigms. You are expecting 50/50 and she feels a different standard is the right one for her.

She gets pissed because you fall asleep without resolving your argument and because you didn't chase after her when she was pissed. Guess what? She probably expects you to cater to her and fulfill her as a priority over yourself.

She wants a rabbit even though they are destructive (FYI, they chew everything because their teeth constantly grow, and they mark their territory with poop). She refuses to clean up knowing that leaves it up to you. The issue (again) is her happiness is a priority over your happiness or comfort.

And, we have the issue with her saying it does not matter if she works because you would have to anyways, and her cancelling your potential weekend together to be with her friend. I'm sure if you looked at your marriage you could find other examples. She may behave this way because of upbringing, being pissed at those SAHDs and thinking they are leeches, or maybe simply thinking that you are out of your league with her and are lucky to have her at all. It really doesn't matter.

You need to calmly, but firmly, let her know where you stand. I am not talking about just telling her when she behaves badly (although that is important too). You need to philosophically tell her where you stand. Something like:

"Wife, I have been feeling marginalized by your behavior for a long time. I need my partner to be a true partner - someone who supports my effort with her own equivalent effort and to whom my wants and needs matter as much as your own, as a matter of commitment. Whatever your intent may be, your actions make you look like you expect to be the top priority.

This has been the trend for a long time now. Our individual expectations are incompatible with marriage. We need to find a way to get you comfortable with making my needs as important as your own, or we need to get out so we can find more compatible partners."

You can cite all the examples if she asks why you feel that way. I would set your expectation up front, just to clear the air. I had a situation where my ex tried to do more for me (for a little while) but her expectations increased commensurately (the imbalance issue was not addressed by her). That just increased her resentment; you don't want that.

Best of luck to you.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

NotLikeYou said:


> The part you just mentioned? You should either have told her in person, or blown her off after she pulled her latest stunt. Texting is weak. See, the part where you wrote about your wife, "Now, she's not responding?" SHE'S DOING IT RIGHT.
> 
> And continuing along, I feel compelled to note that if "this kind of stuff keeps happening," then you're probably NOT actually standing up for yourself correctly.
> 
> ...


I think you're confusing with my lack of effort as being submissive. I know it's not a healthy approach, but I was ready to just let things get worse by not putting any effort in so that we would just grow more distant and split up. 

I stand up for myself every time, just like with the vacation I told her she's not going with her friend and I didn't say it nicely. When she didn't agree I just withdrew, not the best approach but I didn't care. If I wasn't standing up for myself there would be no fights because I would just let everything slide, but I don't.

Yesterday we made lists of things we're happy and not happy about with each other. My list was kind of long but she acknowledged everything I wrote down. I also told her I'm not happy about having to tell her very simple things that I want, like not having my sleep ruined or visiting the family on important occasions. These are things I shouldn't have to fight for in any way, and if I have to do it again I won't be happy. Anyway, I'll see if she stands by what she says this time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She agreed to change?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

turnera said:


> She agreed to change?


Placating.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

DTO said:


> Had to jump in on this one,
> 
> Phoenix, this is very much like the way my ex behaved. From that perspective, I will share some perspective and what I think you should do. And, yes it might have something to do with her upbringing or the company she keeps presently.
> 
> ...


I think what you said was very accurate. She's told me that she's had a spoiled upbringing and she recognizes that's why her attitude is like this. If she was always making excuses and not addressing the problem I wouldn't be here now. Yesterday we actually did what you were saying, being clear of what our expectations are for our marriage.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> She agreed to change?


Yes, she did. She also said it a few weeks ago and wrote that long apology letter. For the most part she stuck to it but other issues have happened that I didn't think needed explaining. It's like if we didn't argue about that one specific topic, she won't get it.
I guess that's where her head is at. She's still not focused on us but on herself so she doesn't see the big picture and needs to be fed basic information. She does say she wants to change and she seems genuine and always has, but eventually I won't be able to keep forgiving, even if I do still love her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How about you write down some 'rules' of what YOU would like in a healthy marriage, then? Write out what you think it would look like. Give specific examples. Use examples of things that BOTH of you have done, and write out what you think healthier responses would have been. Sit down with her when nothing else is going on, and go through them. Discuss why you'd want that stuff, ask her to reiterate it back to you so you can see she understands the logic of it. Try to get her to agree that this (on the paper) is what you two will do in the future when A, B, or C happens. And when it DOES happen, as she can't change overnight, you DO what you both agreed would happen, and then carry on with other stuff. Let her experience what this new arrangement feels like; that's the best way to get her to really change her ways. 

For instance, say she spends a lot of money, and you two really can't afford it. Maybe she takes a credit card out of your wallet without telling you and goes and buys something. You get the bill and discover it a month later. Normally, you'd either stew and resent, or you'd blow up, right? So, moving forward, how about instead you give her a consequence for it - you go online, pull out from HER account the same amount of dollars she spent on your card, plus interest (the consequence), pay the bill and keep the change. It's logical, it's somewhat punitive, and it takes away a little of her 'control.' It was her choice to do it, so she can't blame you for the consequence.

I advise parents to do this all the time with their kids - tell them AHEAD OF TIME what consequences will be, and then leave the kids the freedom to mess up, or not. It takes all onus off of you and puts it squarely on the shoulders of the aggressor; and she can't deny that, since you have already TOLD her what's going to happen if she does it again. Given that her 'spoiledness' is akin to you having to treat her like a child, it should be rather effective. 

Of course, include things that YOU do wrong, too.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

turnera said:


> How about you write down some 'rules' of what YOU would like in a healthy marriage, then? Write out what you think it would look like. Give specific examples. Use examples of things that BOTH of you have done, and write out what you think healthier responses would have been. Sit down with her when nothing else is going on, and go through them. Discuss why you'd want that stuff, ask her to reiterate it back to you so you can see she understands the logic of it. Try to get her to agree that this (on the paper) is what you two will do in the future when A, B, or C happens. And when it DOES happen, as she can't change overnight, you DO what you both agreed would happen, and then carry on with other stuff. Let her experience what this new arrangement feels like; that's the best way to get her to really change her ways.
> 
> For instance, say she spends a lot of money, and you two really can't afford it. Maybe she takes a credit card out of your wallet without telling you and goes and buys something. You get the bill and discover it a month later. Normally, you'd either stew and resent, or you'd blow up, right? So, moving forward, how about instead you give her a consequence for it - you go online, pull out from HER account the same amount of dollars she spent on your card, plus interest (the consequence), pay the bill and keep the change. It's logical, it's somewhat punitive, and it takes away a little of her 'control.' It was her choice to do it, so she can't blame you for the consequence.
> 
> ...


This is basically what we did last night. The only part we didn't do is have a list of exactly what to do to deal with inconsistencies if they show up. I don't know if I want to include that anyway, I don't want to be her father and have to punish and monitor her behavior. If it continues to be a problem for major things I'll probably lean towards divorce.
I'll see how it plays out now.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's why I said to include YOUR stuff.


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## ramgoolams (Feb 2, 2013)

phoenix_,

You have received some very good feedback here. None of which has landed, nor beeen received by anything other than defensive rhetoric.

If this relationship is too much "work", rest assured ALL relationships are work, then take door number 1 and end it.

Or, before that you can take a long, hard and repeated look at the man in the mirror to ensure that there is 0% (not <50, or even 1%) contribution.

All humans will mirror what they receive. If you smile at a complete stranger they will (99.99% of the time) smile back. If you scream at them they will respond in kind.

We all wish you well following the path that you choose; but also know that you have to pick a path and stay on it.

This is not a try it once or twice to see if it is going to work, you are going to have to commit long term. This will only benefit you personally, regardless of how the relationship progresses.

Now, if you will exuse me I need to work on my marriage...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You could be like my BIL, 55 years old, never married cos no one's good enough, thousands of $100 meals bought for women, still goes home alone.


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## Propel (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi phoenix_, I want to say you are on the right path and congratulate you on the progress you've made so far. Finding healthier ways of communicating is definitely going to help your marriage. I think for your list that you need to set apart a time for praising each other on the progress you've made on each others lists, it'll foster great feelings that fuel further progress. 

You've probably done this but I want to make sure anyway, that the items on your list are not to overly broad, in that you set actionable things that they can do to resolve an issue underneath, no one is a mind reader after all. Another thing to consider is to create a signal between you two for when you want to just talk and in that special time that the other partner just listens, no criticizing or saying what a person should or shouldn't do, simply expressing when you did this it made me feel like this, etc. Its a time when you are focusing on _understanding_, rather then resolving feelings or issues. 

I think this maybe a little difficult for you guys, but it'd help a lot if you both decided to start on a new slate, throw out old score keeping. As a married couple you are a team, so win/win should be the mentality. A good thing to set up now is a rule that you both will no longer keep score, it's only been causing problems, resentments and arguments. I think a good idea is to ask what each others most hated task is and for the other person to take responsibility for that task, it alleviates tension and fosters love. Then for other tasks, agree that if you notice that a task needs to be done, to just do it. You may not decide to do this, but having had developed better communication, you'll hopefully have come up with an arrangement that works for both of you.

Remember focus on win/win scenarios, best of luck to you two.


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