# At a loss and feeling lost



## GLC748 (Sep 11, 2008)

New to the site as I am trying to seek out some help here.

My wife and I have been married for three years this past july. We dated for a year, and were engaged for a year. She is an absolutely beautiful woman and I feel very lucky to have met her and still be with her 5 years later.

My problem is that I am trying to find some ways to deal with our disimilar needs for affection/intimacy. I consider myself to be a fairly romantic guy, and I am also fairly affectionate, to the point of, according to my wife, being clingy. I know it is mostly said in jest, but I also know there is a hint of sincerity underneath. 

My wife is not a very affectionate person, never has been, and I respect that, so I don't expect her to change. I do, however, notice she is less so all the time. If I don't initiate a hug or kiss, we can go for many days before she would. Her libido has also all but died off completely. We used to be intimate quite often, even up to when we were married, but the longer we are together, the less often we are intimate. I know there are two underlying issues. One is a very poor self image, which I don't feel she should have at all (I think she is beautiful and tell her whenever I get a chance), and about 10 years ago was anorexic (but has not been at all since I have known her). Also, in past relationships, she has been intimate when she felt it was expected rather than when she wanted to. When I ask her why she seldom wants to be with me anymore, she says it is because she is comfortable that I don't expect it of her, and when she was first getting to know me that wasn't the case. Part of me is glad to hear that, but part of me hurts a little at that too.

I have tried many things. I try being spontaneous and initiating in the middle of the day, or in an unexpected place. I have tried being romantic, having a nice dinner, drawing her a bath with candles lit, etc. I have a fairly strong sex drive and would be more than happy to be with her several times a week or more, rather than a couple times a month. I tell her all the time how good she looks, or when she dresses nicely, or had a new haircut. when I try to talk to her about it, she gets upset and won't because she feels I don't think she is a good wife. Ultimately, I am to the point of wanting to medicate my desire down or something, as I am really starting to feel she isn't attracted to me any more. At the same time, I can't talk to her about this, because she feels bad about it and then initiates two or three nights in a row, and i know it isn't because she want to.

I am at a loss. I want to work it out, but she does not want to talk about it, and I don't want to make her feel guilty at all, because I love her very mcuh. We get along excellent, and are able to work on our home renovation projects together, go snowmobiling, play with our dogs, etc. and get along great. She is my best friend, but often it doesn't feel like she is any more than that to her. She is more often than not more interested in an extra 20 min of sleep at night than being with me.
We are only 26, and I hope to spend the rest of my life with her, but it frightens me to some extent of where our love life is headed in years to come.

Any and all advice appreciate. Sorry for the long post.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

GLC748-

Your post is similar to a lot of posts on here, right down to wanting to take medication to lower your libido. Before giving my opinion of what you can do about it, I want to point out all the things that you have done that have allowed this to happen.



> My wife is not a very affectionate person, never has been, and I respect that, so I don't expect her to change. I do, however, notice she is less so all the time. If I don't initiate a hug or kiss, we can go for many days before she would.


You knew at the beginning she was not affectionate, but for some reason you overlooked this important aspect of your needs.




> When I ask her why she seldom wants to be with me anymore, she says it is because she is comfortable that I don't expect it of her, and when she was first getting to know me that wasn't the case. Part of me is glad to hear that, but part of me hurts a little at that too.


You have allowed her to totally misunderstand you, and now you are paying with even less intimacy.



> Ultimately, I am to the point of wanting to medicate my desire down or something, as I am really starting to feel she isn't attracted to me any more.


She is not physically attracted to you. This point is often lost on husbands in your position.




> At the same time, I can't talk to her about this, because she feels bad about it and then initiates two or three nights in a row, and i know it isn't because she want to.


 It may not be as black and white as you think, there may be a ***** of light here, but only when you have worked on yourself more.



> We are only 26, and I hope to spend the rest of my life with her, but it frightens me to some extent of where our love life is headed in years to come.


You need to make up your mind. You have 3 choices. You either want a decent sex life with her. You find another wife. Or you accept an eventual drift into celibacy with her calling all the shots in the bedroom, and the huge damage that will work on your self esteem.

I have noticed that with American men in particular, they feel shallow for admitting that a dull sex life is what makes their marriage suck the most.

For me it's top of the list. I don't have sex with my friends, I only have it with my wife, so yes, I am putting a huge expectation on to that one person. But that's what we signed up to. I am not ashamed to admit it.

I do have some questions for you though. 

1)When you do have sex how good is it for you, and for her. Is she able to achieve orgasm either before during or after intercourse? 

2)Did you have better luck with previous girlfriends?

3)What shape are you in?

I do have more to say but it depends on your answers. It's good that your post was long, it makes it easier to pick out the nuggets of information, and you certainly write well.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

don't feel bad at all! intimacy is a very key ingredient in a successful marriage. is your wife comfortable with her own self image? just wondering. maybe it's a shot in the dark. if this isn't the case, i think you will have to make her talk about it or maybe write her a letter & tell her to respond the same way. sometimes it's easier to communicate that way. good luck!


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## GLC748 (Sep 11, 2008)

*MTwain*

In response to your comments:
I didn't necessarily overlook that aspect of my needs; both of us have always been aware that I am the "cuddly" one in the relationship. My concern is that she seems to have been slowly pulling away more over the last few years. The first two years that we were married, I had taken a career move that both of us thought (yes, we did discuss it and both agreed, not just me assume she understoof me...this time anyway) woul go a long way to making us more secure in the future. I ended up working way too much as the job was a huge responsibility, and I know now, as I did then, that she was much more important and I needed to make a change, which I did to a career with more regular hours to allow me to spend more time with her.

I have not been meaning to cause her to misunderstand me. But having sex with her when she isn't enjoying it (and is just doing it because she knows I want to) isn't enjoyable for me either. I feel a little bit like I was mislead early on when she was wanting (I thought) to be with me more often, but really don't want to broach the subject as i have tried before and she gets really upset (feels guilty about it).

Sex is good for me, but when we do have it 9 times out of ten she wants it to be quick, with little to no foreplay. She does reach climax, but not like she used to, or when we take longer (which makes it confusing why she usually wants to be done so quick).

Yes, i have had better luck with previous girlfireds, so its not that I am horrible or anything

I could definitely stand to lose a few pounds, but I am a pretty broad guy, 6' 220lbs, so all in all, not repulsive 

and bluebutterfly, my wife has a horrible self image. She has three sissters, all four of them are gorgeous, but she doesn't shtink she is at all. I am sensitive to this, but often feel touching her makes her uncomfortable (and she has confided in me before that sometimes it does.)


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Sounds like your wife has some pretty serious emotional issues. anorexia isnt just about not eating, its a state of mind. this state of mind can be expressed in different ways and not necessarily by just starving herself. Im going to guess that her sex drive is intrinsically linked to her disorder. 

Have you talked about going to counseling with her?


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Why is it that so many men have this very same frustration?? lack of intimacy, little or no sex, communication is one sided always maintained by the man. Damn it, cheating can sure seem justifiable. 

You women need to get over all your hang ups and insecurities and take care of your men!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

martino said:


> You women need to get over all your hang ups and insecurities and take care of your men!


lol...you're gonna get it from someone for that one


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Good, bring it on!


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

GLC748 said:


> *MTwain*
> 
> and bluebutterfly, my wife has a horrible self image. She has three sissters, all four of them are gorgeous, but she doesn't shtink she is at all. I am sensitive to this, but often feel touching her makes her uncomfortable (and she has confided in me before that sometimes it does.)


i had a feeling from what you were saying that that might be the case. i have a friend who has body image issues (bulemic & anorexic) & she hates sex for that reason only. i don't understand it because i don't have any issues about my body. i know it can be a very deep seeded issue and all i can tell you is that you must treat that aspect of this problem with much compassion because this may be a bigger part of the problem than you are thinking. do you think it is possible she has some type of eating disorder? if so, it can take over every aspect of her life, especially intimacy! good luck!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You need counseling as a couple. Avoiding the subject because it's uncomfortable, or even worse, permitting her to frame the issue as your being 'needy' is a guaranteed recipe for long-term frustration, anger, and resentment. None of those add up to marital bliss. Take what advice there is to be had here, but you and your wife need a professional. I am _not_ a professional, but much of what you describe has the earmarks of someone who has been abused. Or, as butterfly indicated, her behavior may be the result of poor body image.


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## GLC748 (Sep 11, 2008)

Thank you for all your comments.

She no longer has the physical symptoms of someone with anorexia (not eating and skeleton thin like she was in pictures before I met her), but she definitely still has the psychological issues of the disorder. On days when she has felt especially down ( about her body) I have asked her if she maybe thinks we should go talk to someone (counselor) about it. I know that when she is feeling the worst isn't the best time to talk to her about it, but on days when she isn't feeling badly about herself she feels she is fine and thinks I am crazy when I mention it. I try to talk to her about it, but I know that I am in no way equipped to her needs as far as counselling her feelings, because when she says "I'm fat and I am ugly", the only response I seem to come up with is "No you're not, you're beautiful/sexy, etc." I know this probably isn't a good response because I am basically telling her she is wrong, but I don't know what else to say. Ultimately, I take her self image too personally because of the way I feel. Ultimately, the only person whose opinion about my image I really care about (other than my own) is her's. That's not to say I let myself go until she says something, but as far as how I dress, the shape I am in, basically my overall appearance is directed by her opinions and how she responds to me. It is quite the opposite for her (as for many women, I know) as what I tell her about how she looks, and how I am attracted to her seems to have little to no bearing on her own self-image; it seems to be entirely directed by what she thinks other people see when they look at her. I know she has deeply rooted issues stemming from her eating disorder, so I don't expect me telling her how good she looks to have much of a bearing on things, but I do expect it to have some affect. The reason i bring all of this up is I know a large part of a woman's desire is actually feeling sexy, and I know she seldom does, but I don't know how to help that at all... I know she feels a little better about herself when she is working out/going to the gym on a regular basis, which she hasn't been for a while because she has told me she doesn't feel motivated. I would love to go with her and encourage her to keep going, but that is a bit of a catch 22, because I don't want her to feel I think she needs to go to a gym!!! I know all of this might seem a little ridiculous that I avoid communicating to avoid hurt feelings, which results in hurt feelings, but she is extremely sensitive about all of this and gets upset (mostly feeling guilty because she thinks she is a "bad wife", or that is what she tells me).

I don't want to "fix" her (as had been my characteristically male response to relationshsips in the past), and I don't even know that I can improve them, but I do want to try and do something to keep our relations from further degenerating. In response to MTwain's original comment, I definitely don't want a different wife (I love this one very much), and I think eventually, celibacy would lead to a permanent state of attention deficit disorder (when it gets to be two or three weeks, my thoughts seem to constantly drift back to being with her), but I just need a little advice/direction what I am doing wrong, or how I could approach things differently to have a better sex life with her.


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## bluebutterfly0808 (Aug 18, 2008)

it sounds like deejo is right, your wife's issues may be bigger than what any of us are able to tackle. at the very least, you need the advice of someone in a similar situation. this is a tough one. don't get me wrong, we're all still here to bounce your feelings off of. i am just at a loss because i can't relate. anyone out there ever deal with a similar situation? good luck glc! we are all pulling for you.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

GLC748-
Yours is a difficult case. 

Usually when people complain of mismatched libidos it is not entirely true. It is simply that one person goes (sexually) off the other, but lies to their partner and sometimes themselves and says they just don't like sex all that much. In your case, the fact that she says that she never liked sex that much with others means that she really does not like sex period.

*However*, the anorexia has an interesting parallel to the libido issue, and I am really indebted to you for mentioning it, as I have not had this insight before. Basically anorexic people gain the ability to overcome their hunger for food. Most people can't do this. They struggle with diets all through their lives. Your wife having suppressed the urge to eat, would have absolutly no trouble suppressing sexual urges. 

I do have advice for you. 

1)Get your self esteem up to tip top condition, or you will never manage to survive this one.

2)When your self esteem is better, you must find an inner firmness. You must discuss your grievances with her, and often.

3)As I hinted at earlier, you may have misunderstood the complexity of her response to your sex complaints:



GLC748 said:


> At the same time, I can't talk to her about this, because she feels bad about it and then initiates two or three nights in a row, and i know it isn't because she want to.


Anorexics need an excuse to eat. "Sexorexics" need an excuse to have sex. You may well have been providing her that excuse. She may even enjoy it more than you know. Even ordinary everyday women never let on how they are feeling. Your wife is off the scale in this dimension, so you need to be very astute. whenever you think you understand her, you are almost certainly wrong!

Get her to have more sex with you, and don't worry about feeling guilty. If she does not want it, she will certainly not do it. What you should then do is rack your brains to make it good for her. She will try to put you off the scent, but you must not be deflected.

Also, I repeat a post here from another thread, look at the SONAR in particular.




MarkTwain said:


> I used to believe in therapy, but then I realised that people can get a lot out of learning little tricks and skills to get them by. Since the advent of the internet and forums like this, it is now possible to run into all manor of solutions for common problems.
> 
> At the risk of repeating myself, I will just share 3 things I got from others, and made my own, all of these made a huge impact on me.
> 
> ...


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

GLC748 said:


> when she says "I'm fat and I am ugly", the only response I seem to come up with is "No you're not, you're beautiful/sexy, etc." I know this probably isn't a good response because I am basically telling her she is wrong, but I don't know what else to say.


Self image, self-esteem, and self-worth are all different things. When your wife is complaining about her self-image (anything related to her body) and her self-esteem (derogatory comments about not being a good wife, behaviors, etc) it is a "safe" way to communicate her lack of self-worth, which is a very deep rooted sense of self independent of one's image or actions. One can dislike their body (self-image) and some of their behaviors (self-esteem) but still maintain a healthy self-worth (self-worth can also been viewed as being intrinsically 'worth' changing, or not hopeless). Your wife has hatred of her self, basically no self-worth. The only 'safe' way to communicate something so deep is through her self-image. Next time she complains about her body or her behaviors, think of it in terms of her loathing her very existence, which is what she is trying to communicate to you. Of course this is all just my opinion.

If she says those things to you, i would recommend you just give her a hug. The validation she is _really_ looking for is something you cannot give her.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

ljtseng said:


> If she says those things to you, i would recommend you just give her a hug. The validation she is _really_ looking for is something you cannot give her.


Very interesting post. Sometimes in these cases, the person can have an epiphany, but who can say what will trigger it?


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## GLC748 (Sep 11, 2008)

Well, at one point that would have been my immediate response, as I know the emotional support of me just being there is much more significant than anything I can say, but as I mentioned previously in the post, she isn't a very affectionate/cuddly person, so it just doesn't seem like the right thing to do. But maybe it is, so I will start trying that. Hugs are pretty cheap.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

You might want to do some reading about anorexia to get a better idea of her emotional state and the best way to approach her.


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