# Why do people throw the "D"" word around so much??



## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

Imagine your spouse coming here to vent about something you do that bugs her/him. Imagine when your spouse comes here to vent, but they don't offer a list of all the things you do right?

Imagine people only getting 5% of the story and suggesting that they leave you? I worry about the young couples that come here to vent and all these seeds of divorce are thrown at them. The only time I would even suggest divorce is if abuse, cheating, or addictions were involved. You know.. The real heavy duty stuff. Yet it seems around here it's mentioned for things like...a cold shoulder, only having sex 3x a month vs 3 times a week,household chores not split evenly, working long hrs etc. I understand it takes two ppl to make a marriage work, but sometimes all it takes is one spouse to start the change and then soon the partner will follow. I think hashing out how horrible the other spouse is, doesn't do much for the person seeking advice. It only adds fuel to their anger/hurt. Is it just me that sees this trend?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Imagine your spouse coming here to vent about something you do that bugs her/him. Imagine when your spouse comes here to vent, but they don't offer a list of all the things you do right.
> 
> Imagine people only getting 5% of the story and suggesting that they leave you? I worry about the young couples that come here to vent and all these seeds of divorce are thrown at them. The only time I would even suggest divorce is if abuse, cheating, or addictions were involved. You know.. The real heavy duty stuff. Yet it seems around here it's mentioned for things like...a cold shoulder, only having sex 3x a month vs 3 times a week,household chores not split evenly, working long hrs etc. I understand it takes two ppl to make a marriage work, but sometimes all it takes is one spouse to start the change and then soon the partner will follow. Is it just me that sees this trend?


100% agree. This post should be a sticky.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

You only approve of divorce for the "heavy" stuff. I think it's justified for many other circumstances if there is real incompatibility or genuine unhappiness. I see no point in living a miserable life if you could be happier alone or with a more compatible partner.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> You only approve of divorce for the "heavy" stuff. I think it's justified for many other circumstances if there is real incompatibility or genuine unhappiness. I see no point in living a miserable life if you could be happier alone or with a more compatible partner.


If there are not any children, I think this is true.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Imagine your spouse coming here to vent about something you do that bugs her/him. Imagine when your spouse comes here to vent, but they don't offer a list of all the things you do right?
> 
> Imagine people only getting 5% of the story and suggesting that they leave you? I worry about the young couples that come here to vent and all these seeds of divorce are thrown at them. *The only time I would even suggest divorce is if abuse, cheating, or addictions were involved.* You know.. The real heavy duty stuff. Yet it seems around here it's mentioned for things like...a cold shoulder, only having sex 3x a month vs 3 times a week,household chores not split evenly, working long hrs etc. I understand it takes two ppl to make a marriage work, but sometimes all it takes is one spouse to start the change and then soon the partner will follow. I think hashing out how horrible the other spouse is, doesn't do much for the person seeking advice. It only adds fuel to their anger/hurt. Is it just me that sees this trend?


Fair enough.

How would you define abuse?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Women have many choices today. They have more than ever in recent history. Many want to take advantage of things they've never experienced before. It's all new and exciting for some. Those husbands who sit back while these things take place, usually without their knowledge, due to women being afraid they will be judged for their choices, can be and are sometimes blind-sided and then told they should have known. They were told. Many women like a much more proactive husband. Some of those posts are from those who have been burned badly and don't want others to go through the same. Sometimes they are totally incorrect. Sometimes they "hit the nail right on the head"(spot on). 

Like you wrote, it's really hard to know someone from just a few negative posts. Many here have the experience to draw out the needed information to help understand. Each has a different tactic. Some tactics aren't all that good.

Something I always wonder is, why do folks come here for the little things? Seems like they could just talk to their spouse over such things. I guess it's tough to see the obvious when we are living with someone we love and care about. The feelings cloud judgment.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

I think it's a travesty how many people here are considering divorce because they don't get enough sex or not the kind of sex they want. What a shallow existence that is. What if their mate had a terrible accident that left them paralyzed or a medical issue that makes sex not possible? They'd leave them?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> *The only time I would even suggest divorce* is if abuse, cheating, or addictions were involved. You know.. *The real heavy duty stuff.* Yet it seems around here it's mentioned for things like...a cold shoulder, only having sex 3x a month vs 3 times a week,household chores not split evenly, working long hrs etc.


I appreciate your position MwD, but this is *your* opinion. The "heavy duty stuff" is a very broad term and very subjective. One person's "heavy duty" is another person's "no big deal."

I think the "D" word gets bandied about when people read about situations that are very similar to what they've been through. They are responding to the OP based on their own perspective and experience, not yours. You are entitled to do the same.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I think it's a travesty how many people here are considering divorce because they don't get enough sex or not the kind of sex they want. What a shallow existence that is. What if their mate had a terrible accident that left them paralyzed or a medical issue that makes sex not possible? They'd leave them?


Boy do I ever love this question.

There is a stark difference between *actively denying* physical affection and intimacy -- and the intense emotional connection that comes (giggity!) along w/ it -- _and being *physically incapable* of providing it_.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

2ntnuf said:


> Women have many choices today. They have more than ever in recent history. Many want to take advantage of things they've never experienced before. It's all new and exciting for some. Those husbands who sit back while these things take place, usually without their knowledge, due to women being afraid they will be judged for their choices, can be and are sometimes blind-sided and then told they should have known. They were told. Many women like a much more proactive husband. Some of those posts are from those who have been burned badly and don't want others to go through the same. Sometimes they are totally incorrect. Sometimes they "hit the nail right on the head"(spot on).
> 
> Like you wrote, it's really hard to know someone from just a few negative posts. Many here have the experience to draw out the needed information to help understand. Each has a different tactic. Some tactics aren't all that good.
> 
> Something I always wonder is, why do folks come here for the little things? Seems like they could just talk to their spouse over such things. I guess it's tough to see the obvious when we are living with someone we love and care about. The feelings cloud judgment.


I do appreciate the posters that try to remain neutral and offer constructive advice. When one of my kids come to tattle, ie, "so and so hit me". I usually say, well "what did you do"? Ten times out of ten they provoked it. That's not to say the one who hits gets off Scott free, but it takes two. It's usually never just one person at fault.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Boy do I ever love this question.
> 
> There is a stark difference between *actively denying* physical affection and intimacy -- and the intense emotional connection that comes (giggity!) along w/ it -- _and being *physically incapable* of providing it_.


Not really. There's still no sex. Anyone that says they can't live without sex is as evolved as a chimpanzee. Actually, chimps have shown they can live without sex (this research was done by NASA). They just take care of themselves so people that can't live without it are less evolved than chimpanzees.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Not really. There's still no sex. Anyone that says they can't live without sex is as evolved as a chimpanzee. Actually, chimps have shown they can live without sex (this research was done by NASA). They just take care of themselves so people that can't live without it are less evolved than chimpanzees.


I'll see your "derp" and raise you a few of these...

:scratchhead: :slap: :wtf: :scratchhead: :slap: :wtf: :scratchhead: :slap: :wtf:


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I'll see your "derp" and raise you a few of these...
> 
> :scratchhead: :slap: :wtf: :scratchhead: :slap: :wtf: :scratchhead: :slap: :wtf:


I know you have a point but it's not really what is represented on this board. What you find here is more of what I posted. I know, I've read the threads. If these people just can't live without sex then what do they do if their partner get's paralyzed? Answer: they walk out on them. They're the people that make the news for doing such horrible things. We see these stories regularly.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Sex is a subject that many people are not comfortable talking about even thought its a basic human need/desire. Thus, its a subject that is easy to use to embarrass or cower people. Its wrong to single it out as being less important then other parts of the human experience. Beyond that I think most of the sexual issues leading to divorce consideration tend to be situations where there once was compatible sexual preferences but not longer. I think it tends to be the one person who hasn't changed that tends to be the one who feels the loss and, often, the response is "tough" in some form. After a few years of this I can't fault anyone for considering "D"


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I think it's a travesty how many people here are considering divorce because they don't get enough sex or not the kind of sex they want. What a shallow existence that is.


It's not shallow to want to have sex with your partner, the person who is your significant other, the one you decided to marry. We all have different needs. I think it's a bigger travesty when one person wants sex and the other person routinely denies them. It's the same with anything else: one person wants to spent QT with their partner, and the other partner denies them. One partner wants to discuss problems in their marriage, and the other person denies them.

Just because sex isn't that big of any issue in YOUR marriage or you don't see it as a dealbreaker, doesn't mean other people feel the same way.

Personally, I would never want to be in a sexless marriage and/or sexless relationship.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I think it's a travesty how many people here are considering divorce because they don't get enough sex or not the kind of sex they want. What a shallow existence that is.


Sex is very fundamental in marriage. Not shallow at all to consider divorcing a celibate or near-celibate partner.



CincyBluesFan said:


> What if their mate had a terrible accident that left them paralyzed or a medical issue that makes sex not possible? They'd leave them?


People who are paralyzed or have "medical issues" can still find ways to be sexual and desire their mate. Many couples with these exact issues find creative ways to be sexual, intimate, affectionate, loving, etc.



CincyBluesFan said:


> Anyone that says they can't live without sex is as evolved as a chimpanzee. Actually, chimps have shown they can live without sex (this research was done by NASA). They just take care of themselves so people that can't live without it are less evolved than chimpanzees.


:rofl: No comment on this. *No idea why you're comparing married people to chimps.*


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I know, I've read the threads. If these people just can't live without sex then what do they do if their partner get's paralyzed? Answer: they walk out on them.


But that isn't the case in most of these scenarios. In most of the ones posted on TAM, one partner is actively choosing NOT to have sex with their spouse. It's not a paralyzation issue.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I know you have a point but it's not really what is represented on this board. What you find here is more of what I posted. I know, I've read the threads. If these people just can't live without sex then what do they do if their partner get's paralyzed? Answer: they walk out on them. They're the people that make the news for doing such horrible things. We see these stories regularly.


A totally different situation and so no comparison.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Shoto1984 said:


> A totally different situation and so no comparison.


Exactly.

How many threads here lately have been started by OPs who are considering leaving their spouses because the spouse is now _paralyzed_ and can no longer have sex?

I can't think of a single one.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Exactly.
> 
> How many threads here lately have been started by OPs who are considering leaving their spouses because the spouse is now _paralyzed_ and can no longer have sex?
> 
> I can't think of a single one.


How many are started by OP's that say they "_*have*_ to have sex?" If they *have* to have sex and their partner is unable then what?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Having good honest deep communication with high tolerance for differences, humility, grateful attitudes, and high self-awareness seems to be the key, and it's generally what is the greatest factor in mistakes being made with the selection of a highly compatible partner. 

Most of what happens here seems like it can be attributed to misunderstandings of mates that develops into resentment and greater problems that sometimes cannot be overcome. Actions based upon these misunderstandings can cut to the bone and change lives forever. 

Sometimes those changes are very much needed. Many times, they likely could have been averted. That's what I see as sad. Then, folks start to learn and grow. They change after their lives crumble, to become what they likely both wanted all along. Like the song says, "Isn't it a pity"?

http://youtu.be/drCKvCL93hw


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

In my example I cited sex 2-3 times a month as opposed to 2-3 times a week. There's a difference between a sexless marriage as opposed to "not enough". I would never encourage a man or woman to leave their spouse if their partner hounded them for sex everyday day and were short with them bc of it. Just like I wouldn't advocate divorce for the flip side, yet that happens all the time around here.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

"you don't know what you've got till its gone...."


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> In my example I cited sex 2-3 times a month as opposed to 2-3 times a week. There's a difference between a sexless marriage as opposed to "not enough". I would never encourage a man or woman to leave their spouse if their partner hounded them for sex everyday day and were short with them bc of it. Just like I wouldn't advocate divorce for the flip side, yet that happens all the time around here.


I know. That's the posts I was referring to. Didn't get as much as they want or the type they want so they bail.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Married, I think most can agree with your general sentiment. It is irresponsible to suggest divorce without exhausting all the options and evaluating the consequences for all involved.


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## changedbeliefs (Jun 13, 2014)

Sex is universally considered one of THE most vital components of a marriage....and here you are, equating the need for sex as being unevolved?? This sounds like the rationale of someone who is stuck in a sexless marriage.

Here's my opinion on divorce, generally speaking, as relates to this thread: "Divorce" has this attached meaning, of failure, and damage. There's a constant jury overseeing it, dictating when it's "bad enough" to be warranted, as this OP is making no bones about stating. I often think of this analogy: how "bad" would your job have to get before others would view it as "ok" to leave? Would you tell someone, "well, as long as you're not getting sexually harassed..." or "it's not like they stopped paying you..." or "if you leave that job, you've wasted all that time there"? No, we are often very quick to tell someone, "if you're not happy, find a new one!" and I argue, jobs are MUCH harder to come by and much more important to our daily life. When you're unemployed and no money is coming in, people don't eat, housing doesn't get paid for, utilities don't get paid.

There are countless marriages that stay together and keep both people miserable, and not for any "heavy duty" reason. Think of all the relationships people end because they just don't feel compatible enough for marriage; guess what, sometimes we move forward and marry someone who isn't really a fit for us (either at first, or after years of personal evolution). We may want to believe the fairy tale, but we have no magic internal mechanism to tell us who the "right" one is, and lots of people choose wrong. They should have the right to decide to end that relationship, for whatever reason they choose, to find their own happiness. Do they have an obligation to not stampede those involved? Absolutely, especially if they're children, but let's be honest. Plenty of marriages end and make people BETTER off than they were while in it. Plenty don't, too. Point is, we should keep "married" and "happy" as distinct concepts, and stop acting like staying married is some kind of final declaration of one's character, and that divorced is the opposite.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

jld said:


> If there are not any children, I think this is true.


I'd say it depends. I know I stayed too long in my first marriage, and the bad example it set for my son caused problems in his relationships later on, that took time and therapy to overcome. 

Children can benefit if the parents are seen to work on and resolve issues between them, but otherwise may learn that marriage is an unhappy and adversarial institution, and want no part of it. They may learn bad habits and dysfunctional coping mechanisms that will prevent them from having success in their relationships. There are many other scenarios where staying together may be beneficial, and many in which it may be bad for the children.

So, it depends!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

changedbeliefs said:


> Point is, *we should keep "married" and "happy" as distinct concepts...*


Ummm... I don't think Married but Happy is gonna agree with this statement! :rofl:

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

Well written reply, changed beliefs. I agree with everything you said.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

changedbeliefs said:


> Sex is universally considered one of THE most vital components of a marriage....and here you are, equating the need for sex as being unevolved?? This sounds like the rationale of someone who is stuck in a sexless marriage.
> 
> There are countless marriages that stay together and keep both people miserable, and not for any "heavy duty" reason. Think of all the relationships people end because they just don't feel compatible enough for marriage; guess what, sometimes we move forward and marry someone who isn't really a fit for us (either at first, or after years of personal evolution).
> 
> Point is, we should keep "married" and "happy" as distinct concepts, and *stop acting like staying married is some kind of final declaration of one's character, and that divorced is the opposite*.


:iagree::smthumbup:

Excellent post!!!


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

changedbeliefs said:


> Sex is universally considered one of THE most vital components of a marriage....and here you are, equating the need for sex as being unevolved?? This sounds like the rationale of someone who is stuck in a sexless marriage.
> 
> Here's my opinion on divorce, generally speaking, as relates to this thread: "Divorce" has this attached meaning, of failure, and damage. There's a constant jury overseeing it, dictating when it's "bad enough" to be warranted, as this OP is making no bones about stating. I often think of this analogy: how "bad" would your job have to get before others would view it as "ok" to leave? Would you tell someone, "well, as long as you're not getting sexually harassed..." or "it's not like they stopped paying you..." or "if you leave that job, you've wasted all that time there"? No, we are often very quick to tell someone, "if you're not happy, find a new one!" and I argue, jobs are MUCH harder to come by and much more important to our daily life. When you're unemployed and no money is coming in, people don't eat, housing doesn't get paid for, utilities don't get paid.
> 
> There are countless marriages that stay together and keep both people miserable, and not for any "heavy duty" reason. Think of all the relationships people end because they just don't feel compatible enough for marriage; guess what, sometimes we move forward and marry someone who isn't really a fit for us (either at first, or after years of personal evolution). We may want to believe the fairy tale, but we have no magic internal mechanism to tell us who the "right" one is, and lots of people choose wrong. They should have the right to decide to end that relationship, for whatever reason they choose, to find their own happiness. Do they have an obligation to not stampede those involved? Absolutely, especially if they're children, but let's be honest. Plenty of marriages end and make people BETTER off than they were while in it. Plenty don't, too. Point is, we should keep "married" and "happy" as distinct concepts, and stop acting like staying married is some kind of final declaration of one's character, and that divorced is the opposite.


Don't get Me wrong. There are absolutely times when divorce is the best option, especislly when one mate doesn't budge. What's been bugging me is the premature advice when someone Vents or asks for suggestions. Some posters will say things like, "I'd leave him/her if I were you", yet they never ask; 

Have you had counseling"? 
Have you talked about it?
How long has this been going on?

Divorce should never be the generic first response, but hey that's just me. I've been married twenty yrs, and probably have been thru more than half on this forum. There were times I wanted to throw in the towel and them all of a sudden things got better, bc we both worked at it. Ebbs and flows, ups and downs but always learning, always growing. Sometimes I think back to the specific time or yr I wanted to end it, and think to myself, I'm so glad I waited it out, look what I would have missed.


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

I agree with the predominant divorce option on here. I've been told by nearly everyone, in the past two years to leave my wife, and honestly 5-10 years a go, I probably should have? I think if divorcing and finding someone else to take their place that met all of your needs was as easy as going to pick out another dog after the previous one died, then I would agree, why stay unhappy, but there is no guarantee that you will find anyone else & the next one could be even worse??
If you are totally miserable 24/7 and being a lone would bring relief and possible happiness, then it is a wise choice, but for a lot that isn't the case, there might be some unhappiness, but it's tolerable.
As far as the sex subject, I've learned to not let that control me anymore, I can take it or leave it, but it's an easier thing to bypass when the sex is pretty passionless.
Kudos to everyone that were miserable and found happiness on round 2 or 3. This is round 2 for me and I've just settled.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> What's been bugging me is the premature advice when someone Vents or asks for suggestions. Some posters will say things like, "I'd leave him/her if I were you", yet they never ask;
> 
> Have you had counseling"?
> Have you talked about it?
> How long has this been going on?.


Marriedwithdogs, TAM is an open forum. People come here posting and wanting advice, opinions, and to hear from others. So when someone comes here: they are going to get every single kind of advice: some will advocates everything you said, others will say "I would divorce"

The point is, it's ultimately up to the poster to decide what is best for him/her in t hat situation. We are just people of the internet. We are not in their marriage. Also, a lot of people post here and already know what they are going to choose to do, whether it's staying and working it out or leaving. We are just little words typed out on a screen. 



Marriedwithdogs said:


> Divorce should never be the generic first response, but hey that's just me.


Exactly. That's you. Not everyone is the same.



Marriedwithdogs said:


> I've been married twenty yrs, and probably have been thru more than half on this forum. There were times I wanted to throw in the towel and them all of a sudden things got better, bc we both worked at it. Ebbs and flows, ups and downs but always learning, always growing. Sometimes I think back to the specific time or yr I wanted to end it, and think to myself, I'm so glad I waited it out, look what I would have missed.


That is wonderful it has worked out for you. But not everyone's experience is the same, nor can it be judged/compared to others'. Fact is, we all have a different life experience.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> What's been bugging me is the premature advice when someone Vents or asks for suggestions. Some posters will say things like, "I'd leave him/her if I were you", yet they never ask;
> 
> Have you had counseling"?
> Have you talked about it?
> How long has this been going on?


Ok, that seems a little unfair. I can't think of many threads where people haven't recommended better communication, counseling, and offered great suggestions for trying to work it out. Sure, some posters may chime in with "I'd leave him/her" but usually that's after many of the suggestions have already been brought up and discussed.

Also, some of the threads where people seem to jump in and shout "divorce" is because the OP has *many* previous threads citing all of the same problems with no resolution. The longer you're here, the more history you know with many of the OPs. I noticed you're fairly new to the site, so you may not be familiar with some of the OPs and their stories. Just a thought...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Agreed. Most people ask the OP whether they have communicated their feelings to their partner, to talk to their partner about how they feel, advise them to try counseling, the love languages, MMSLP, that single man book *I can't remember the name - it's the one about not being a doormat; individual counseling, make suggestions of date nights, and on and on.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)




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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)




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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
I think divorce is appropriate when there doesn't seem to be any path that leads to a couple being happy together. I also believe that if one person is unhappy, then the other cannot really be happy - so divorce isn't a "selfish" option.

Sex comes up a lot because of its unique nature. It is intimately tied to love and romance - imagine your favorite romance story without desire. It is the difference between a friendship or business partnership and love. 

In most relationships, it is only acceptable to get sex from your partner - unlike almost everything else, you can't get it elsewhere.

Since sex is generally assumed to be part of a marriage, I think it is essentially deceptive to marry someone with whom you don not intend to be regularly intimate - unless you have made your feelings clear earlier.

If there is physical incapacity to have sex, that is of course covered under the "better or worse / sickness / health" but I believe that the when practical the injured party should still try to see that their partner has a good sex life. 

Ultimately sex should not be something you do *for* your partner, but with your partner for your mutual enjoyment. For many people (myself included) a great deal of the enjoyment of sex comes from watching your partner's pleasure.

So I think a bad and irreparable sex life is a valid reason for divorce for many people.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

^ ^ ^ 
THIS. :iagree: Completely.

Excellent post, richard!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


>


kristen cumings: Jelly Belly® bean art


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> I think divorce is appropriate when there doesn't seem to be any path that leads to a couple being happy together. I also believe that if one person is unhappy, then the other cannot really be happy - so divorce isn't a "selfish" option.
> 
> Sex comes up a lot because of its unique nature. It is intimately tied to love and romance - imagine your favorite romance story without desire. It is the difference between a friendship or business partnership and love.
> ...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Anyone that says they can't live without sex is as evolved as a chimpanzee. Actually, chimps have shown they can live without sex (this research was done by NASA). They just take care of themselves so people that can't live without it are less evolved than chimpanzees.


Hmmm...... Nice logical fallacy. /sarcasm.

Male Chimps Display Sexual Aggression for Better Mating Chances: Study : SCIENCE : Tech Times


> *For male chimpanzees, long-term bullying of females, including physical assaults, apparently offers the evolutionary benefit of improving their chances of fathering babies with them, a study suggests.*
> 
> That's one result of research involving chimps in Tanzania over 17 years that recorded long-term aggressive behavior by males, researchers say.



So, let's not pretend everything they do we should do.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Hmmm...... Nice logical fallacy. /sarcasm.
> 
> Male Chimps Display Sexual Aggression for Better Mating Chances: Study : SCIENCE : Tech Times
> 
> ...


I was actually suggesting the opposite. We're supposedly intelligent creatures. We're not ruled by instinctive sexual urges. Our brains are evolved to work intuitively and not instinctively like animals in the wild.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Cincy-

I think your conclusion that people lamenting being in sexless marriages has very little to do with a physical need for sex.

But a healthy marriage NEEDS sex. It needs that level of intimacy to set itself apart from any other relationship individuals have outside of the coupleship. 

IMO, you're way off the mark.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I was actually suggesting the opposite.


Not by suggesting masturbation, in a sexless marriage, is a saving technique. I am refuting the masturbation/evolution claim by showing chimps also beat the females when they want to mate.

As this is a derail I am out.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


>



:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

cons said:


> Cincy-
> 
> I think your conclusion that people lamenting being in sexless marriages has very little to do with a physical need for sex.
> *
> ...


So people like Stephen Hawking can't have a healthy marriage? What about all the guys who came back from Iraq and Afghanistan paralyzed?

I actually met a very nice young guy at the VA hospital in Cincinnati. He got paralyzed in Iraq in 2005. He was married. When he got back and finished his physical therapy his wife left him. I asked if they were religious and he said yes. They were both Christians. Forgive me if I get it wrong but don't they take a vow before God to love, honor, and cherish their spouse in sickness and in health, forsaking all others, until death do they part?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Yo, but for real, thread is super derailed. Cincy, you could start a new thread to discuss how you don't feel sex is important in a marriage/relationship and/or paralyzations in marriage, Christianity and divorce, etc.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Studies show that a great sex life improves one's well-being and helps prolong life. When couples are more strongly bonded, little issues become more tolerable, and usually communication, understanding, and compromise will follow. So lets say the rest of the marriage is average to good, but the sex life is terrible for one spouse, should the other spouse help fix the sex life or come to alternate solutions to help the well-being of the other spouse out? If an LD spouse wants their partner to live longer, be healthier, and have over-all life satisfaction, should they care more about their partner's sex life. Fixing that one issue alone may turn a marriage from average to good, or good to great. If what bonds a person to another person becomes irrelevant to another person, as long as that person that is being neglectful in some way feels as long as they are okay with living within that marriage should expect the other to stick around?

As changedbelief stated, divorce is a matter of perception. If someone gained wisdom and learn valuable lessons and goes on to a better relationship, is the divorce really a failure? There are some divorces that have the people involved remaining friends. Our brain governs our behavior and it is plastic. It changes in subtle ways over a period until major changes occur. When you start off, perhaps you like to be rooted, but as time progresses and you feel the need to explore and go see the world, but your partner is not happy with that and prefers a life of having friends and family around them and would be miserable exploring, then they have grown incompatible. . Every experience and change, alters our brain in some ways. Sometimes people can change together, or they cannot, so compatibility is not a static issue.

Back to the main point. Depends if they have stated that they have tried communication, consequences, and even tried some sort of counseling, and there is no change, what other option is there but to separate. I will usually advise to divorce early before all affection is gone. Sometimes people wait until they have nothing left to give and only when divorce is on the table does the catalyst for change occurs. By then, it is usually too little, too late. Another factor is the behavior of the other partner as well. Lets say they are married to a narcissist, I would immediately suggest divorce depending on how high they are on that spectrum. Finally, it is up to the OP to decide on what course to take, and whatever posters suggests to the OP, only the OP will choose what to listen to.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Yo, but for real, thread is super derailed. Cincy, you could start a new thread to discuss how you don't feel sex is important in a marriage/relationship and/or paralyzations in marriage, Christianity and divorce, etc.



Yes, the "main"topic is now about sex, or the lack thereof. I'd like some other points to be touched on if possible.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Yo, but for real, thread is super derailed. Cincy, you could start a new thread to discuss how you don't feel sex is important in a marriage/relationship and/or paralyzations in marriage, Christianity and divorce, etc.


I never said it wasn't important. I commented on those who claim they have to have it. Those people throw the "D" word around most of all and that is the topic of this thread.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> Yo, but for real, thread is super derailed. Cincy, you could start a new thread to discuss how you don't feel sex is important in a marriage/relationship and/or paralyzations in marriage, Christianity and divorce, etc.


Jellybeans beat me to it!! :rofl:

Cincy, what's up with all this emphasis on paralysis?!?!

For crying out loud, we KNOW paralyzed people are capable of having satisfying sex lives. (The chimps, however, are still up for debate.)

Why do you insist on derailing the OPs topic, which has NOTHING to do with paralyzed people having sex???!!!


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I was actually suggesting the opposite. We're supposedly intelligent creatures. We're not ruled by instinctive sexual urges. Our brains are evolved to work intuitively and not instinctively like animals in the wild.


Boy you have an awful lot to learn about human beings.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Yes, the "main"topic is now about sex, or the lack thereof. I'd like some other points to be touched on if possible.


There is also something to be said about serial divorcees. They are actually the ones who skew the numbers. A common statistic tossed out there is that over 50% of marriages end in divorce. That is true but doesn't tell the real story. Actually 80% of people who get married are married for life. The divorce rate is skewed by serial divorcees. I have a coworker on his 4th marriage to a woman on her 3rd. Look at how many divorces they contribute to that rate between them? Anyway, it's like killing in a war. It gets easier after the first one. I know. Divorce is probably the same way. After the first time, it gets easier.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

SamuraiJack said:


> Boy you have an awful lot to learn about human beings.


Well I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, a master's in sociology, and I'm working on my PhD. Truth be told, that's one of the reasons I'm here. What is it that I said about human behavior that you think is false, and why?


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Jellybeans beat me to it!! :rofl:
> 
> Cincy, what's up with all this emphasis on paralysis?!?!
> 
> ...


Actually the subject is people who throw divorce out there so quickly. I've found that on this site it's the "I gotta have sex" crowd that is first to take that leap. The OP is asking why it's thrown around so much. I was just discussing the "why." I've since brought up a second group. The already divorced.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> In my example I cited sex 2-3 times a month as opposed to 2-3 times a week. There's a difference between a sexless marriage as opposed to "not enough". I would never encourage a man or woman to leave their spouse if their partner hounded them for sex everyday day and were short with them bc of it. Just like I wouldn't advocate divorce for the flip side, yet that happens all the time around here.


would you advocate divorce if a husband or wife refused to share their income?

sex is kind of like income. say the wife make 50K and the husband makes 55K shouldn't the bill be paid using a ratio so the person make more pays a little more.

so if the guy making 55k said to bad were paying equally and I spending my money that's left over on ME and theres nothing you can do about it.


I think sharing sex is similar.

one want is everyday and one wants it once a month compromise should be in order gracious compromise not begrudging compromise.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Actually the subject is people who throw divorce out there so quickly.


Ok, agreed. But I haven't seen a SINGLE thread here where someone was quick to throw out the "D" word because their spouse is suddenly paralyzed. And your paralysis analogy just doesn't "work" in the types of scenarios the OP brought up.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, agreed. But I haven't seen a SINGLE thread here where someone was quick to throw out the "D" word because their spouse is suddenly paralyzed.


If they "have to have sex" then how will they get by with a paralyzed spouse? Some from the neck down. I've seen them at the VA hospital and some are married. Are there relationships doomed?


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> would you advocate divorce if a husband or wife refused to share their income?
> 
> sex is kind of like income. say the wife make 50K and the husband makes 55K shouldn't the bill be paid using a ratio so the person make more pays a little more.
> 
> ...


Some spouses don't have an income. Would you advocate divorcing a spouse with no income?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I never said it wasn't important. I commented on those who claim they have to have it. Those people throw the "D" word around most of all and that is the topic of this thread.


in reality every marriage is a contract.

there is no unconditional love period.

when you get married you figure on some essential things for your marriage to be happy.

if those thing don't happen you start to say whats it worth I am not happy because the person who I love can't or won't some of my basic needs to be in a relationship.

once the unbalance is too great then the decision to divorce or end a marriage becomes easier.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Some spouses don't have an income. Would you advocate divorcing a spouse with no income?


I asked my question first I thinks its rude to answer a question with a question!

your here just to argue


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> I asked my question first I thinks its rude to answer a question with a question!
> 
> your here just to argue


You proposed that sex is like income and asked what if a spouse withheld income. I answered based on your analogy. Many spouses have no income. You brought up income. I'm just following that logic. Your question was rhetorical in the way it was worded. You were suggesting you'd advocate divorce for a spouse who provided no "income." Rhetorical questions do not require an answer. I was just making a point based off your line of reasoning. My question, however, is not rhetorical. Would you advocate divorcing a spouse that provided no income?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

:corkysm60:


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> your here just to argue


I have come to the same conclusion. Circular topics and endless questions.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> You proposed that sex is like income and asked what if a spouse withheld income. I answered based on your analogy. Many spouses have no income. You brought up income. I'm just following that logic. Your question was rhetorical in the way it was worded. You were suggesting you'd advocate divorce for a spouse who provided no "income." Rhetorical questions do not require an answer. I was just making a point based off your line of reasoning. My question, however, is not rhetorical. Would you advocate divorcing a spouse that provided no income?


Well I telling you now it wasn't rhetorical.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> Well I telling you now it wasn't rhetorical.


If it wasn't rhetorical then of course I would not advocate divorce if one spouse withheld income. I'd recommend communicating about it like rational human beings.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> I have come to the same conclusion. Circular topics and endless questions.


In other words, a discussion forum.


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## Marriedwithdogs (Jan 29, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> would you advocate divorce if a husband or wife refused to share their income?
> 
> sex is kind of like income. say the wife make 50K and the husband makes 55K shouldn't the bill be paid using a ratio so the person make more pays a little more.
> 
> ...


This is foreign to me bc hubby and I have a joint account. We see our money as "our" money not his and his. A better example would have been if the husband refused to work and provide for his family. To me that man has abandoned not only his wife but any children they have. However, I've never met a man or heard of a man telling his wife that he REFUSES to work. Now if he was struggling to find work and couldn't keep a job due to no fault of his own, I would not advocate divorce.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

phycho babble bull $hit.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> phycho babble bull $hit.


Is that what you call therapists' work?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> In other words, a discussion forum.


Ummm.... no.

But I'll leave you to ponder your own definition of a "discussion forum."

OP... too bad this thread has gotten side-tracked, hijacked, whatever. It's a great topic.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> This is foreign to me bc hubby and I have a joint account. We see our money as "our" money not his and his. A better example would have been if the husband refused to work and provide for his family. To me that man has abandoned not only his wife but any children they have. However, I've never met a man or heard of a man telling his wife that he REFUSES to work. Now if he was struggling to find work and couldn't keep a job due to no fault of his own, I would not advocate divorce.


most people have two incomes today and I would say finances are one of if not the biggest causes of divorce.

my example is just that an example. there are many people who post about the financial problems in marriage.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Is that what you call therapists' work?


when you use the technic you use .....yes!


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I'm thinking we've found that IQ does not equal EQ.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> If it wasn't rhetorical then of course I would not advocate divorce if one spouse withheld income. I'd recommend communicating about it like rational human beings.


by the time people find this site they have mostly done that until their blue in the face a frustrated to the point that they start thinking maybe their spouse is right so their looking for good common sense people to validate their concerns. to hear real life people give them advice on how they may have handled it.


so now after the to loving rational people who are married communicate and one still doesn't want to compromise then would you offer divorce as an option????


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> when you use the technic you use .....yes!


It's just rational discussion. We all offer perspectives. Some perspectives differ with others. That invites discussion. If everyone agrees with everyone else all the time, there would be nothing to discuss. The topic raised by the OP here is a valid question. I've noticed the same thing they have. Many people here do throw out divorce right away. We're discussing the possible reasons why that is. Whenever someone is quick to divorce I usually read their other posts. The most common theme among them is "I have to have sex." Not finances. If the most common theme had been finances I would have made that point. I do think that's a common reason for divorce but the divorce-first posters I've seen on this particular site tend to be more of the crowd I described.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I honestly don't think that it is anyone's intent to throw in divorce as the answer at the drop of a hat...Nor can a forum be the optimal place to get answers to one's situation that more often than not will have multiple factors contributing to the issue being presented.

I think this forum is good at allowing multiple perspectives to be voiced. It hopefully allows us to see ourselves with a lens not blurred by emotions.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Whenever someone is quick to divorce I usually read their other posts. *The most common theme among them is "I have to have sex."* Not finances. If the most common theme had been finances I would have made that point. .


Maybe you've reading only one type of thread topic by people who come to post seeking advice. Because a lot of people who come here wondering what to do have many other reasons than "sexlessness" - some are in abusive relationships; some have irresponsible spouses (drug use, alcohol abuse, financial irresponsibility); some come here because they feel emotionally neglected; some have blended family issues; some have infidelity issues (entire subforum dedicated to that one); some were just told by a spouse that their spouse wants out; some have religious differences, age difference problems, in-law issues, and some, yes, have sexual problems. But sexlessness is just ONE of the many topics that TAM sees. 

And honestly, I don't ever recall seeing a thread here posted where someone say they were going to get a divorce "I have to have sex" per your quote. Sexlessness usually has a bigger back story than just one little statement like that.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> It's just rational discussion. We all offer perspectives. Some perspectives differ with others. That invites discussion. If everyone agrees with everyone else all the time, there would be nothing to discuss. The topic raised by the OP here is a valid question. I've noticed the same thing they have. Many people here do throw out divorce right away. We're discussing the possible reasons why that is. Whenever someone is quick to divorce I usually read their other posts. The most common theme among them is "I have to have sex." Not finances. If the most common theme had been finances I would have made that point. I do think that's a common reason for divorce but the divorce-first posters I've seen on this particular site tend to be more of the crowd I described.


being rejected over and over by the one who is suppose to love you and that you forsake all others for is a pretty big deal to most high drive people.

sayin you don't need sex is just an opinion.

if you define need in its strictest vernacular. then your correct.

that would mean you don't need a car or a house or anything but food and water and shelter. your shelter could be a cardboard box it would work.

but I think most peoples need for sexual companionship is much greater. than your basic needs for just survival.

and then the perceived need for a happy marriage. everybody has their own needs on what it would take to help them be happy in a marriage.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

Jellybeans said:


> Maybe you've reading only one type of thread topic by people who come to post seeking advice. Because a lot of people who come here wondering what to do have many other reasons than "sexlessness" - some are in abusive relationships; some have irresponsible spouses (drug use, alcohol abuse, financial irresponsibility); some come here because they feel emotionally neglected; some have blended family issues; some have infidelity issue (entire subforum dedicated to that one); some were juts told by a spouse that their spouse wants out; and some, yes, have sexual problems. But sexlessness is just ONE of the many topics that TAM sees.
> 
> And honestly, I don't ever recall seeing a thread here posted where someone say they were going to get a divorce "I have to have sex" per your quote. Sexlessness usually has a bigger back story than just one little statement like that.


Read the posts of the person who liked your comment.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I don't need to read other Happy and Chillys' posts to know that not everyone at TAM suggests "Get a divorce right this moment" to people who come to post. Because it's frankly not true. Happy and Chilly have been around for awhile and both have given excellent advice to others who come here seeking for help. You're new so maybe you're unaware of various types of posts/issues TAM sees. 

Sex may not be a dealbreaker for you but it is for others. Not everyone and every relationship is cut from the same cloth. Fact is, people divorce every day and it's been happening for eons now. It's not going anywhere.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Read the posts of the person who liked your comment.


Come on Cincy. Let's just call a spade a spade. Are you referring to me, chillymorn, or Wanda J, as we are the three people who liked her post (The suspense is killing me.) And by the way -- I never suggested "get a divorce, right this moment" as I waited *twenty years* myself.

Time for me to exit this thread. Tit for tat really isn't my thing.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> Jellybeans beat me to it!! :rofl:
> 
> Cincy, what's up with all this emphasis on paralysis?!?!


Made me laugh.



chillymorn said:


> being rejected over and over by the one who is suppose to love you and that you forsake all others for is a pretty big deal to most high drive people.


And the other example I will give that matches this is the fact that routinely/habitually neglecting your spouse of issues/concerns they deem important/hurtful to the relationship (hello, emotional bonding, amongst many) is a GREAT way to fck up a marriage. It's not just sex.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

A wise person just reminded me that "he/she is cheating" is an even quicker response on TAM than "divorce them" is. I have noticed that one too.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> A wise person just reminded me that "he/she is cheating" is an even quicker response on TAM than "divorce them" is. I have noticed that one too.


You remind me of someone else who used to post here. A lot.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> You remind me of someone else who used to post here. A lot.


I thought you were exiting the thread?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

CincyBluesFan said:


> A wise person just reminded me that "he/she is cheating" is an even quicker response on TAM than "divorce them" is. I have noticed that one too.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-wants-me-sleep-other-men-2.html#post12046649


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

GTdad said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...-wants-me-sleep-other-men-2.html#post12046649


In that thread the wife said her husband talked her into swapping. He's using a supposed desire to see her have sex with other men as a way for him to have sex with other women. I really feel sorry for her case. If anyone rated to be told to run for the hills it's her but I didn't tell her to do that. I think first she needs to stop doing things she doesn't want to do and second start investigating the level of hubby's antics right away. Only when the whole truth is known can she make a better informed decision about their future, hopefully not just basing on her decision on emotion alone, although I know that's a tall order in a situation like this.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I will admit I will throw out divorce frequently. 

1) when infidelity or trust issues are very real
2) when abuse physical/emotional
3) when there is an obvious issue with compatible sex frequency/variety etc.
4) or any glaring issues that are many times non solvable and the marriage is still very new. with no kids or assets to be overly concerned with.


I myself am married for over 20years .....if I new now .......never mind you get the drift.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> A wise person just reminded me that "he/she is cheating" is an even quicker response on TAM than "divorce them" is. I have noticed that one too.


the red flags of an affair that a loving honest caring devoted person never thought in a million years would happen to them are so burned into their mind when someone comes here and says I've noticed ...........

the standard response to anybody is trust but verify.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> the red flags of an affair that a loving honest caring devoted person never thought in a million years would happen to them are so burned into their mind when someone comes here and says I've noticed ...........
> 
> the standard response to anybody is trust but verify.


I remember when Reagan coined that catchy phrase but to be honest think about it. If verification is required, is that really trust?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> In that thread the wife said her husband talked her into swapping. He's using a supposed desire to see her have sex with other men as a way for him to have sex with other women. I really feel sorry for her case. If anyone rated to be told to run for the hills it's her but I didn't tell her to do that. I think first she needs to stop doing things she doesn't want to do and second start investigating the level of hubby's antics right away. Only when the whole truth is known can she make a better informed decision about their future, hopefully not just basing on her decision on emotion alone, although I know that's a tall order in a situation like this.


sometimes just sometime you know even in an emotional state that the best thing is to run for the hills.

easier said that done.

I did not advise her to run I advised her to stop and give the I am not going to do this anymore and if he don't quit then run.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

CincyBluesFan said:


> A wise person just reminded me that "he/she is cheating" is an even quicker response on TAM than "divorce them" is. I have noticed that one too.


You don't believe infidelity is a valid reason to divorce?

Edit: i re-read and you're saying that accusations of infidelity are a common response to whatever people's problems are presented as.

I agree, somewhat. Reading comprehension FTW!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I've seen how bad marriage can be, without involving infidelity. I've seen how much better divorce is than a bad marriage. I've also seen how good marriage can be, once you find a truly compatible partner. Both knowing the pitfalls from previous marriages, can make for a far better one. Divorce? Yeah, best decision I ever made, and based on experience and learning from others, think it's a good option for many. It's better than a poor marriage. I don't see marriage as wonderful or even necessary - but when it IS good, it can be great!


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

CincyBluesFan said:


> I remember when Reagan coined that catchy phrase but to be honest think about it. If verification is required, is that really trust?


I hear ya! but most need iron clad proof before they take the leap to leave.


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## CincyBluesFan (Feb 27, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> sometimes just sometime you know even in an emotional state that the best thing is to run for the hills.
> 
> easier said that done.
> 
> I did not advise her to run I advised her to stop and give the I am not going to do this anymore and if he don't quit then run.


That is good advice. About the only time I'd advise a quick exit is if there is abuse of the spouse or children. 

Everyone is entitled to their own reasons for breaking marriage vows but honestly a lot of them seem very thin. Then again, there are spouses that have the other spouse killed for life insurance money so I guess when we're dealing with people the bar is pretty low.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> In that thread the wife said her husband talked her into swapping. He's using a supposed desire to see her have sex with other men as a way for him to have sex with other women. I really feel sorry for her case. If anyone rated to be told to run for the hills it's her but I didn't tell her to do that. I think first she needs to stop doing things she doesn't want to do and second start investigating the level of hubby's antics right away. Only when the whole truth is known can she make a better informed decision about their future, hopefully not just basing on her decision on emotion alone, although I know that's a tall order in a situation like this.


Sooo... basically, you read through the thread and, making use of your ability to apply sound reasoning to what the OP provided in terms of insight into her marital situation, read between the lines, etc, you came to the conclusion that her husband was/had been cheating on her...?

Welcome to TAM.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

CincyBluesFan said:


> Well I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, a master's in sociology, and I'm working on my PhD. Truth be told, that's one of the reasons I'm here. What is it that I said about human behavior that you think is false, and why?


I have all those too.
Cute toys to have but no substitute for actual wisdom...your lack of evolutionary biology and psychology is showing like a slip at a picnic...

Try this...can you turn off your Amygdalla? 
I know I sure cant.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> Imagine your spouse coming here to vent about something you do that bugs her/him. Imagine when your spouse comes here to vent, but they don't offer a list of all the things you do right?
> 
> Imagine people only getting 5% of the story and suggesting that they leave you? I worry about the young couples that come here to vent and all these seeds of divorce are thrown at them. The only time I would even suggest divorce is if abuse, cheating, or addictions were involved. You know.. The real heavy duty stuff. Yet it seems around here it's mentioned for things like...a cold shoulder, only having sex 3x a month vs 3 times a week,household chores not split evenly, working long hrs etc. I understand it takes two ppl to make a marriage work, but sometimes all it takes is one spouse to start the change and then soon the partner will follow. I think hashing out how horrible the other spouse is, doesn't do much for the person seeking advice. It only adds fuel to their anger/hurt. Is it just me that sees this trend?


It's easy for new posters to find cheer leading squads here. Sometimes it's exactly what they're looking for and other times they end up defending the person they were here venting about. We do have a few long term members who ask questions right off the bat rather than unloading limited information. Ele comes to mind as a member who asks questions first.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
In an attempt to re-rail the discussion....

Maybe divorce is a reasonable option when one (or both) partners is no longer willing to put in the effort to make the other happy. Whether it is money, sex chores affection, romantic gestures etc. 

When your partner's happiness is no longer important to you, it is time to leave.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Wow, glad I wasn't here for that. That was an exciting read. What drama, whew. I'm tired. 

Anyway, no one's going to change anyone's mind about their divorce. I don't think anyone wants to do that. I think many are triggering because they feel attacked by the thought they may not have given someone a good enough chance. 

I pretty much have read posts by almost all of you and while I don't always agree, I know you have reasons that were thought out and considered over a period of time that wasn't a week or even a month. 

Divorce sucks. I hope we can all learn to ask questions, not because we want to dig into the private lives of someone hurting, but so that we can get them to think about what was happening, what they did and what their spouse did. At the same time, it will give the OP a better understanding of what is going on. Sometimes it helps the OP to understand where someone is coming from. That's tough to do sometimes. There isn't time. They have to blindly trust and sort through advice while going through some living hell. 

Great thread Mwd. Got some good responses, even if it was heated. Thanks.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening all
> In an attempt to re-rail the discussion....
> 
> Maybe divorce is a reasonable option when one (or both) partners is no longer willing to put in the effort to make the other happy. Whether it is money, sex chores affection, romantic gestures etc.
> ...


I agree. There are some opening comments that say enough. I just looked at two new threads that are two sides of the same coin. One where the wife is saying she's been pressured for more sex for years and she's ready to divorce. Another where the guy says he's gone with too little sex for two decades and he's ready to divorce. I didn't comment on either yet but I'm thinking years of sexual incompatibility and resentment is not leaving room for much else on either thread. So yea maybe the young couple coming here talking about HD / LD needs to hear divorce sooner rather than later.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Marriedwithdogs said:


> The only time I would even suggest divorce is if abuse, cheating, or addictions were involved.


I guess this brings to mind the WAW/WAH conversation. Why NOT seek happiness? If your at the end of your tether, by keep plowing on?

AFAIC, people should try. But how often do we hear spouses won't talk, won't go to counseling, keep phoning it in day after day?


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

The reality is that most threads on here about the lack of sex aren't just about the sexual act itself...they're usual also about the lack of affection and the distance between the couple.

Sex is important...not only does it chemically inspire monogamy and pair bonding but for the partner who isn't getting it, it leads to feelings of rejection and lack of validation.

And lets face it, a lot of these stories are about the "bait and switch." The person has tons of sex before marriage an then once married, they stop. Its basic dishonesty.

I'm not sure why there's all the emphasis on paralyzed people since even loving people with disabilities often find ways to have physical intimacy. 

Frankly, if *I * was paralyzed myself and my husband wasn't having regular sexual activity with me...I'd divorce him. Affection-less marriage is a deal breaker for me and I wouldn't need this forum to make that decision.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

perhaps people throw the D word around because it rhymes with freedom, lack of responsibility, stolen youth, easy going dating days, mistakes corrected... no more tears. no commitments... unacceptable changes, immaturity -- too young, not enough dating, too much dating, too old, daddy issues, mommie issues, never heard of MMSLP, too much sex, not enough sex, guilt, innocent..

so many rhyming words... too many.


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