# What can I do?



## h-cain (Sep 11, 2012)

Hi guys I’ve been reading through some of the threads and I still don’t know what to do about my own situation.

I’ve been married for almost 13 years and have 3 children, 12, 10 and 7, the problem is shortly after the birth of my third child sex started to become less frequent, quite rapidly, I’ve read of people unhappy with their sex live because they’re not having sex very often but I have only had sex five times last year and three times so far this year, it’ may seem strange that I know exactly but when it’s that rare it isn’t hard to remembers.

I’ve tried what most people suggest, I’ve talked to my wife, not only that I need more sex but that I need more physical intimacy, sometimes it’s simple a cuddle before we go to sleep that I want most, and I’ve communicated this to her, firstly subtly but recently directly, but our relationship isn’t changing, if anything the situation is getting worse, she barely wants any contact with me at all.

When we argue about this (no matter how I approach the subject it will always end in an argument eventually) she simply states that “sex isn’t an important part of marriage” which I think is just plain stupid, without the physicality of love a marriage seems to be lacking to me, if I ask why sex isn’t an issue she cannot explain why, when I ask just for more physical intimacy, whether it be just a cuddle before sleep or more she makes an effort for a day or two and then everything either returns to before or it’s even worse.
I’ve become depressed but cannot use the medication and so I either end up waking every half an hour every night or not sleeping until 4am which is making me feel physically terrible, as well as emotionally unsatisfied.

I simply don’t know where to go from here.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

A lot of women just don't understand what sex means to her man because it's not their experience. They just don't think of it in the same terms. 

I know my own wife thought I was being a big cry baby and just wanted to get my ashes hauled. Until she finally got it, nothing ever changed. You can read my post to see what finally clicked for us.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/54161-sex-life-back-she-really-just-didnt-get.html

The reason it gets worse is because the longer it goes on the needier and more resentful and passive aggressive you get, and the less atractive your behavior makes you. 

You might try the MMSL book.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

I ended up discovering on my own just how much me turning him down for sex affected him. He is just not the type to talk to me about things that bother him. My first preference would have been for him to come to me and straight up tell me it's gotta stop. I'm not talking about light conversation or beating around the bush but literally laying it out there, "You rejecting me for sex, for whatever reason, is a serious problem. My needs are not being met and it makes me feel like XYZ. I've been patient long enough. I have been understanding. But there comes a point when you have to meet me halfway and understand that I have needs." Something to that effect would have worked like a charm, honestly. I just figured it was a nonissue.... it wasn't really bothering me so why should it bother him? After coming here and seeing post after post about men, and even some women, going through this and how it made them feel, I felt terrible.

Let's say I am not the type to listen to my husband and take him serious. He'd have to hit me with action. He'd have to discontinue something for me to show me how it feels. My husband often rubs my back and plays with my hair, puts lotion on my feet, etc. It's pretty much standard around here and I've come to expect it. If he started telling me no, it would get to me. But he couldn't just stop doing those things with no explanation, because then I would feel like he's just being a d***. If he told me, "Until you start meeting me halfway and meeting my needs, I will not meet yours. I have no problem playing with your hair and rubbing your back but not if I get the cold shoulder every time I want sex", I would probably take it into consideration because then I have something to compare it to........and I would realize that intimacy is FAR more meaningful than some hair play and back rubs.....

If she thinks that sex isn't an important part of marriage, STOP DOING THE THINGS SHE DOES CONSIDER IMPORTANT. If she thinks spending time with her is important, stop doing it. Helping around the house? Stop. But in everything you do, explain to her why you are doing it. Just because sex isn't important to *her* in marriage, doesn't mean you feel the same. And if she can deny you something you feel is vital to your marriage and feel fine with it, you should be able to do the same. You are in a partnership. She does not set the rules on what flies and what doesn't in a marriage. Imo, that's probably the only way you would get her to understand and if she still doesn't get it then she's selfish and you have bigger issues than just not getting bedroom action.....


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## AnnaBanana143 (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm a woman and seem to be having similar problems with my husband. So know that it's not a male/female thing.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

When you tell her how sex is important to you but she counters that it's not important, she's really telling you that you aren't important. If you were having sex with her best friend, would sex be an important issue to her? I think a lot of wives view their husbands like electricity. They take for granted he's just always going to be there, that she's such a wonderful person, she can treat him like garbage indefinently but he'll still stay there and the money will just keep rolling in. Once you hit the light switch and nothing happens, electricity is suddenly pretty important. 
Pleasantly ignore her. Buy some nice going-out clothes. Look happy, be happy, but be gone much of the time. If you don't have a password on your cell phone, put one there. You don't have to fool around. I'd suggest that you don't. Still, there's no harm in reminding her that you're a live, adult, sexual human being and if she doesn't want to forfeit, she'd better get back in the game. Join a gym that has a personal trainer about half your wife's age with a butt that could crack walnuts.


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## kl84 (Jan 26, 2012)

:lol::rofl:With a butt that could crack walnuts LOL:rofl:


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## h-cain (Sep 11, 2012)

I was reading the book Drover recommended when my wife came home, she asked for the laptop (it's a PDF copy) and so I shut it down and handed it to her, she then started to rant at me because she went through the history and found that I had visited the relate site, which also counsels couples through divorce and asked why I was looking into divorce on the internet, I explained that I was actually trying to get a referral for counselling for us but she didn’t seem to care.

So everything devolved as it tends to, I tried to remain calm, I put my position forward and she keeps reiterating the same thing, she doesn’t think sex is important, I point out that during our first years of marriage we had plenty of sex but she refuses to see that we had a good sex life and now barely have anything, I didn’t even entirely mean sex, any physical contact would be nice.

When I mention that a sexless marriage isn’t normal and that most people hold that view she refuses to accept that, she now told me she never had any interest in sex, which to be honest I don’t believe, and that we should take a break, but I not only don’t want to break up I don’t want to leave my children, I just want a normal sex life.

I even made the point that I've made before that if sex in unimportant to her why would it matter I had sex with other people, and while she said she doesn't know her reaction tells me she would hate it, the idea made her angry, just like it did before, sex obviously is important otherwise she wouldn't care.

Now things are worse, she's essentially saying it's her way or be damned.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

If she wants to live with someone but not have sex with them she should have gotten a roommate or a cat, not a husband.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

If you're not willing to leave and she knows it then she holds all the cards and you have no chance. I was in your shoes. My wife now knows that sex is a condition to marriage with me. Without it I will leave. It wasn't always that way but it is now.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> If you're not willing to leave and she knows it then she holds all the cards and you have no chance. I was in your shoes. My wife now knows that sex is a condition to marriage with me. Without it I will leave. It wasn't always that way but it is now.


Likewise. I finally just said, "There are only two ways this can go. We can have a good marriage, in which you act like a loving wife and treat me like your husband. Or we can have no marriage. There are no other alternatives. You have to decide that right now, and then change your behavior starting right now."


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

OP by allowing her to say that sex is unimportant and completely off the table you are displaying tremendous weakness and low value as a sexual partner which is very unattractive to women.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

h-cain,

As you know, you're in a sexless marriage and therefore not a marriage at all. 

Your wife needs help and the 2 of you need MC

I agree with the others though. Because of the kids, she feels she holds all the cards because she knows you don't want to leave them.

I'm sure your kids pick-up on the fact that neither of you are truly happy and yet probably see this as a proper marriage dynamic because that is what is modeled for them day in and day out.

Let me bring this forward a bit. You will continue to resent your wife over the cours of the next few years and she will also resent you because of the pressure you put on her. The kids will see this too.

Eventually, you'll fight often and nothing will resolve. That resentment you've been choking down the last five years, that's a full blown case of hatred now. The kids see this too.

As I once heard, kids would rather be FROM a broken than LIVE in one.

You're still young enough to change this dynamic by finding a woman who feels as you do about the physical portion of a marriage


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

Drover said:


> There are only two ways this can go. We can have a good marriage, in which you act like a loving wife and treat me like your husband. Or we can have no marriage. There are no other alternatives.


This is basically how it will end up. Either the behavior between the two of you will have to change or the anger and resentment will cause a divorce.

Toffer makes some very good points as well. Look at it from the eyes of your children. They see and feel a lot more things than you think they do. 

It would be best if you sat her down and expressed how her actions make you feel ( physically lousy, unloved, disrespected, ect.) instead of "I need sex." Express the desire to reconnect with her. See where it gets you. 

I would exhaust the counseling route first. Even if she refuses to go, go for yourself. If she continues down her usual path, I suggest Drovers statement above.


Keep one thing in mind _if_ you consider divorce, just because you get a divorce does not mean that you will never see your children. Make sure you plan ahead so you do not get screwed. I am divorced, I see my kids over half the time, I am much happier, and I get laid.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Take a page from her playbook.

She defines it succintly... Sex is not important. You should definie it just as succinctly... "Marriages are by definition sexual relationships"... No more pleading convicing, arguing... This is your position and it will not change.

Also, it's her way or the highway.... It has to be your way or the highway...

On top of this, you can stop whatever it is you are doing that she feels is important to a marriage, such as sharing your finances... YOu can tell her that financial sharing is not important in a marriage.

Time to get tough and man up.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I, too, am in a LD-HD marriage and I have to at least give my wife credit for recognizing that it is an important issue that needs to be addressed. I feel bad for the OP that his wife is not as open-minded about the problem, and it is a problem. 

My wife has been trying to do something about it and we have been getting a little more active lately. And I never expected any improvement. So hopefully there will be a chance for you, bro. 

You have to make her aware that this is a major issue for you and that it is something that cannot continue to be ignored.


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## Gangland (Aug 3, 2012)

If it used to be that she was having sex regularly. In other words her sex drive was just fine before you were married, and you can rule out medical problems, I'd say run the MAP and read Athol Kays Married Man Sex Life.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't think anyone has mentioned it, but you may want to 100% rule out infidelity. Often when someone is cheating they'll abstain from sex with the faithful spouse so that they feel they are not cheating on their lover.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

C3156 said:


> Toffer makes some very good points as well. Look at it from the eyes of your children. They see and feel a lot more things than you think they do.


Another issue with your kids. They'll learn how to be a married person from what they experience from their own parents. If you maintain the status quo, daughters will learn to make their husbands miserable and sons will learn how to be resentful, needy husbands.


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## h-cain (Sep 11, 2012)

Firstly I wanted to thank you all for your advice, I read the entire book suggested but essentially it wasn’t anything I didn’t already know, although it was extremely easy to read.

After she calmed down and we actually talked she I think has just become nasty, she’s now claiming that for her the physical relationship was all an act and that she never wanted or enjoyed it from the beginning, which is either nasty for being untrue or she lied to me for years, either way I’m not going to accept it.

Either way I can’t keep trying to explain my position for her, I’ve tried subtle and now I’ve tried as plain and simply as I can, she still doesn’t understand and it seems she doesn’t care, I couldn’t keep going so I’ve given her the choice, either leave or change, I’ve offered marriage counselling, I’ve asked her to go before but she isn’t interested at all.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

If you believe that a marriage without sex is not a relationship (and I mean relationship, not just physical needs being met) then you aren't left with much choice.

If she is now claiming she never liked it, that would be a red flag to me that she is hiding some past issues like abuse or an affair. 

If she does have some issues in the past she hasn't dealt with.... she owes it to herself, your kids, and YOU to deal with that. I can only imagine that it would be very difficult to do that. 

Can you make someone face up to their fears and TELL you what the problem is? Not likely. 

You can encourage them, certainly. By starting to detach a bit. Making plans for your separate life. Because if it's not a relationship without sex for you, then it's done. Take care of yourself. Clean up your own head. Go to counselling by yourself if you have to.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

cain,

Time to punch out on this marriage


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## h-cain (Sep 11, 2012)

I'm just too tired to carry on this way with the marriage with things the way they stand, we had a ceremony not long ago about our wedding vows, it now feels like she just invited everyone we know to spend a fortune and lie to me in front of them.

The sadness i had yesterday morning has now been replaced by anger because she's either being as nasty as she can because she knows it'll hurt, or for the entirety of our relationship she's been pretending to be someone else, i don't understand how anyone could do such a thing, it seems so cruel.

I went to see my therapist last night, who is helping me with some other issues from my childhood, but she quite frankly said that the progress we've been making isn't going to help if i'm not happy at home, she's asked if i would invite her before but my wife doesn't want to, it's been a great help for me but the work now seems to be being undone by my marriage.

We're meant to talk about it when she gets in soon, but i just can't keep giving more than i am in this, i think it's time she damn well made the move to my side, i'm tired of changing for her needs but having mine ignored.

Thanks again for everyones' help.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

h-cain said:


> i'm tired of changing for her needs but having mine ignored.


To take just this single sentence out... and turn it around on you.
Maybe SHE feels the same way. Maybe she isn't willing to ensure your needs are met because she thinks \ feels she isn't getting what she needs out the relationship either. Nobody wins.

But if you look at it another way ---it can take away the scale of resentment. 

If you focus too much on your list of needs that must be met, and talk about it too much, it's asking and conditional. And when is the "cup full" and you will be satisfied? And do you know, for absolute certainty, that you are behaving in a way that encourages her to be fully intimate with you? Not sure how you can. 

What can you do? You can focus on what you GIVE, not what you receive. Take a step back, slightly. 

This does two things. It allows you to be able to focus on how you treat people, and it lets you see things from a different angle. Both of those things create a more "receptive" attitude to others around you. If she has checked out... then you will know soon enough. 

Your job, really, isn't to keep score of how much you receive in life from other people, is it? Isn't it more about what you GIVE in life?


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

If you're not familiar with the 180 I'd suggest it's time. Your wife is so bitter right now that I doubt it will have any effect on her but it will have an effect on you. If followed properly you will find it liberating and will prepare you for single life.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

deejov said:


> To take just this single sentence out... and turn it around on you.
> Maybe SHE feels the same way. Maybe she isn't willing to ensure your needs are met because she thinks \ feels she isn't getting what she needs out the relationship either. Nobody wins.
> 
> But if you look at it another way ---it can take away the scale of resentment.
> ...


In some cases I would agree with this. However in this case, this woman is so disrespectful to her husband and so disrespectful to the institution of marriage itself, I can't see recommending that he give give give with no expectation of having her meet her OBLIGATIONS as a wife. Sorry, that's just how I see it. This woman does not deserve to have a husband, and certainly not one who continues to try to meet her needs while she states simply that sex has no part in marriage.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> In some cases I would agree with this. However in this case, this woman is so disrespectful to her husband and so disrespectful to the institution of marriage itself, I can't see recommending that he give give give with no expectation of having her meet her OBLIGATIONS as a wife. Sorry, that's just how I see it. This woman does not deserve to have a husband, and certainly not one who continues to try to meet her needs while she states simply that sex has no part in marriage.


No, that is not what I was saying.
I'm saying take a step BACK from being focused on "me, me, me" and focusing on the concept "my needs are not being met".

I'm saying take a BIG step back and LOOK at his life. With both eyes open. How does he treat people? Not just his wife. Does he measure everything and everyone based on what they give him? 

Take a step back and wonder WHY he even wants to have sex with her.

We have no idea if HE is meeting HER needs. Don't even know what her needs are. Only information we have is she isn't meeting his needs. That's a given. 

Either she's messed up and can't be in a relationship..... or the relationship is damaged outside of the bedroom.

Take a step back and stop focusing on me, me, me. Start looking at her and start looking at how he participates in this.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

h-cain said:


> Firstly I wanted to thank you all for your advice, I read the entire book suggested but essentially it wasn’t anything I didn’t already know, although it was extremely easy to read.
> 
> After she calmed down and we actually talked she I think has just become nasty, she’s now claiming that for her the physical relationship was all an act and that she never wanted or enjoyed it from the beginning, which is either nasty for being untrue or she lied to me for years, either way I’m not going to accept it.
> 
> Either way I can’t keep trying to explain my position for her, I’ve tried subtle and now I’ve tried as plain and simply as I can, she still doesn’t understand and it seems she doesn’t care, I couldn’t keep going so I’ve given her the choice, either leave or change, I’ve offered marriage counselling, I’ve asked her to go before but she isn’t interested at all.


I'm no lawyer but if you were to look at a marriage like a contract you go into it with certain expectations. When one party stops meeting those expectations they are in breach of contract. Normally, you would give them notice and they would have a certain length of time to remedy the breach. If they don't the contract is no longer valid.

I know that's overly simplistic but to me if you've tried to address the issue and she refuses to even consider your position that is a deal breaker. No one should have to live their life as a martyr.


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