# Feeling the void tonight...Are we ever going to feel whole again?



## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

I didn't want to highjack the other thread about if you trust your WS 100%, and once I realized how long my reply was thought a new one was in order. 

*


Headspin said:



[...]you never for a moment believe you will end up with somebody using your depth of love and trust to actually dismantle you emotionally

Click to expand...

*True. At the time it felt very much like he'd taken all the trust I'd given him, all the secrets I'd shared, and all my worse fears and designed my own personal _designed just for me_ Hell. 

His affair left me feeling like I had a hole inside....like I was missing a part of myself or had this huge void in me. And I think that void I found myself with was the part I filled up with my husband/our marriage. I feel myself healing, but I believe that void is now being filled up by others instead of just him {family, friends, life in general}. 

I have let him back inside but no where to the extent he once occupied my heart and life. And maybe it's for the best, it doesn't feel like it some days...right now it's most days. I guess in part because I miss my delusions. My absolute certainty that this man loved me and would never do anything to risk our happiness.

I used to wonder how I could feel so empty yet be so full of pain. We are still together BTW. What can I say... I still love the idjit. 

He says he felt "unfulfilled" like there should be more, and I wasn't filling those needs, yet he never once told me things were missing. When I'd feel the distance growing and try to get him to open up he'd simply assure me all was well. So he filled his void with a much younger woman and I suppose by giving it to me. Now I'm the one with a void. Weird how that turned out. :scratchhead:

I have thought and thought about why I cannot give him all my trust again. I mean isn't that what forgiveness is all about? Letting go of the pain and anger and all the nastiness inside?? Maybe it's my way of protecting my heart? If I don't let him all the way in, if I don't let go of it all, am I somehow protecting my heart should he ever stray again?? I dunno folks some times my head aches because I don't know the answers and I never will. 

I cannot wrap my mind around it because I would never have done this. I would have left if I found myself that damn tempted to stray. uggggggggggggh So because of that convection YOU DON'T CHEAT EVER, PERIOD. YOU LEAVE FIRST I can't ever accept his "WhyS" (I was married before and when I found myself thinking "what if" about someone else I knew it was past time to leave. I left the next day and filed for divorce. So that is why I know I would leave before cheating. No implied judgement here, except where hubby is concerned, since he knew all this before we married.)

Thoughts anyone? Similar reaction? Am I just being petty to keep holding on to this, never really letting go of it completely?? I don't think I will ever understand this. Why?? "Why" is something I keep asking and there simply isn't a good enough answer for me. Damn. I hate feeling like this. Stupid triggers. I'd stomp my feet and have fit if it's help but I doubt it'd do a thing to change this. :scratchhead::banghead:
To add insult to injury most the time he is oblivious and has no clue something has triggered me. And if I am fool enough to explain my tears or crappy mood I get the look. You know the one I bet. The one that says louder than any words, "Oh crap, I am so not dealing with this again. I am tired of this just let it go." I'd love to have an erase button and do just that. 

Sorry for the ramble folks. Been a bad week for me. If any of you made it to the end of this thanks for listening. I appreciate it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It takes 2-5 years to recover from an affair. The less he will be supportive of you, the less he will talk when you need him to, the longer it will take you.

Are you in MC?

You will probably benefit from going to IC.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

LastDance said:


> I have thought and thought about why I cannot give him all my trust again. I mean isn't that what forgiveness is all about?


The reason you cannot give him all your trust again is because you're not that stupid. He betrayed you once so what reason do you have that he won't slip up again? Because he says he won't? Like they say girl, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
And no, trust is not what forgiveness is all about, no matter what you hear. They are totally separate. I have forgiven family members for stealing from me and for borrowing money and never paying it back. But I don't trust them and would be a fool if I did.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

You have been on TAM for a year now ....
It takes time to heal.
It takes a lot of efforts from WW.
Sorry to hear that you are triggering. Over time, you would heal.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Every once in a while, there are good days.

But there are still many bad days.

Over time, it has gotten some better.

Too bad, your H did not realize all the pain you would suffer.

I do hope you start having more better days than bad days.


Sometimes, your H could try to do something special. Get him to a counselor so that he can wake up and help you more with the pain and the bad days.

I sometimes think that my wife has no clue about hurt she caused. I hope she is done with causing any more pain.

But once the trust is gone, it is so hard to get any of it back.


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## Janky (Nov 26, 2013)

From my experience, that level of trust never returns.

Maybe you can overcome this, I couldnt.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

LastDance said:


> He says he felt "unfulfilled" like there should be more, and I wasn't filling those needs, yet he never once told me things were missing. When I'd feel the distance growing and try to get him to open up he'd simply assure me all was well..



It's not your job to make another adult feel "fulfilled". Do you have superpowers or something? 

People build churches, take up hobbies, hire therapists and life coaches, attend seminars, go watch movies, listen to music that moves them, join charitible causes, and generally nurture compassion in order to find fulfillment in their lives. Among other things. You can't do all that for somebody else. It's not possible. 

Heck, there are days the friggin' Dalai Lama is down and not feeling it. Feelings....? Meh, they change. Hey, I am feeling a little underfunded, so I guess I had better knock off a bank, right? I don't think so.



> So he filled his void with a much younger woman



I think you mean "he filled her void" unless you are talking about the gaping hole in his head where compassionate empathy might reside if he didn't feel entitled to covertly change the terms of your marriage contract without letting you know and without regard for how it might affect you or your family.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

As I read your post I thought exactly what EI was saying

Therapy ? MC ? Anything ?

How long has it been since the Affair ? 

Here is the problem if your never really went to MC or therapy and tried to do this on your own *( as it seems your spouse doesn't really care )* It seems you failed. 

So why not seek professional help.. Trust me it works. 

It is not all about tell me how your feeling today. They teach you about the brain and your psyche. 

I can tell you going 3 previous affairs/attempted affairs with my Ex wife, it takes some time, but eventually you need to let it go and swallow those triggers for the sake of your marriage and relationship. You just can't keep beating them up over it. Especially 4 years later.

Will you have Triggers ? You sure will. 
I can tell you the day my Ex wife was actually cheating on me I had a trigger because she was out with "co-workers" and wasn't home yet.. My younger son was concerned where his mother was. I was soothing him but inside was freaking out myself. I had to suck it up. 

Imagine after I realized that day I was right to be worried.. It fvcked with my head for sometime. It affected my next relationships. 

Again don't know the full details of your current issues..


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Once a spouse cheats, the innocence is gone. You don't get back that feeling of security and safety that was there before they cheated. When you knew for certain they would never do anything to hurt you. 

We know better once we're in The Club.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

I have to be honest and this is offline to other thinking.

I don't believe that you _ever_ forgive that you _eve_r forget or accept anything - you just learn to internalize it and get on with life in spite of it 

I don't think you do get past it in five years or 65 years years. It is always there in your mind and will not ever disappear totally

Someone you thought had your back but they took a sharp knife and stabbed you in that back and often twisted it around for fun 

Like a fool I kept thinking the power of love will eventually give me the strength to trust again.

But it doesn't

Even when I see as it were successful recons on here the betrayed party still say even now even though they feel the reconciliation is successful that they can't quite get it 100% in terms of trust

I believe total trust in a reconciliation is a myth and does not exist.

I've done it I've tried with two different women and in the end I could not trust them.

The difference in total and not is 100% too, trusting somebody without thinking is 100% by definition. Not quite trusting them means its as good as 50% or 35% 0r 70% 

Lets face it if your level of trust in somebody is 99% then you don't fully trust them do you !?


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

EleGirl: He has gotten a little better about talking; the problem seems to be in his memory.  I hear, "I don't remember" often when I ask him things. And I don't accept that he has so few memories. 

We started MC some time back but it's Christian based and they tend to make me feel like a failure since I am finding it impossible to let this go and move on. No offensive intended to anyone by that comment. 

Pheonix: When you're right you're right. What reason do I have to give him complete trust again. None. 

AngryandUsed: My DDay was Nov 7, 2011 but with the trickle truth it's been reset a few times. The last time was on Christmas when he let something slip out. Feels like I went right back to the beginning healing wise.  

harrybrown: I'm sorry you are still having bad days too. I'm sorry the whole lot of us have had to deal with kind of mess. And it is a mess: the pain, anger and confusion. I had no idea a person could hurt so much or cry so many tears. 

I'm getting to the point I don't count on much from him any more. He seems to be doing better all the way around, much better actually, but still ... I have times when I wonder if it is worth all this work. The things he is giving me now are things I should have had all along. *sigh* Enough. I need to stop dwelling on this or I'll never sleep tonight.

To borrow from AA "One day at a time" 

I'll catch up more in the morning this crabby bear needs to get some rest.  

Night all. And thank you all for reading and replying to me.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Keep working at it. I hope you find happiness.
I can certainly empathise with you and I'm so glad I broke it off. I used to think it could be repaired but now don't think I could ever have been happy again.
Hugs for you.


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## ire8179 (Apr 19, 2014)

LastDance said:


> He says he felt "unfulfilled" like there should be more, and I wasn't filling those needs, yet he never once told me things were missing.


He was bored, it's as simple as that. And it wasn't your fault either, he's bored because he's boring and couldn't keep himself occupied with something positive. That missing thing, he's the one who have to find it not you, you can do everything and it's possible for him to still feel bored



LastDance said:


> To add insult to injury most the time he is oblivious and has no clue something has triggered me. And if I am fool enough to explain my tears or crappy mood I get the look. You know the one I bet. The one that says louder than any words, "Oh crap, I am so not dealing with this again. I am tired of this just let it go." I'd love to have an erase button and do just that.


I'm so sorry he isn't supportive, to be blunt it just tells that he isn't remorseful and insensitive to your pain. If he truly able to look back,be honest,let his pride down and see the real damages that did he wouldn't be acting like this. 



LastDance said:


> Why?? "Why" is something I keep asking and there simply isn't a good enough answer for me. Damn. I hate feeling like this. Stupid triggers. I'd stomp my feet and have fit if it's help but I doubt it'd do a thing to change this. :scratchhead::banghead:


_“You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; 
trying to put the pieces together, 
justifying what could've, 
would've happened... 
or you can just leave the pieces on the floor 
and move the f*ck on.” _

I'm quoting this because it sounds like he isn't supportive. Marriage is burden for two, you can't lift it alone. Tell him to start taking the responsibility of his actions, watch the actions not the words.

Good Luck


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

Headspin said:


> I have to be honest and this is offline to other thinking.
> 
> I don't believe that you _ever_ forgive that you _eve_r forget or accept anything - you just learn to internalize it and get on with life in spite of it
> 
> ...







As the writer Paul Theroux says , “It is very easy to plant a bomb in a peaceful, trusting place.” That is what the cheating spouse has done. Then detonated it.

And as a result OUR LIVES WILL NEVER BE THE SAME....

That is why 75-80% of BHs file for D after D-DAY...You WILL NEVER FORGET...There is a couple on here who have been in R for 25+ years and he is Still having trouble dealing,.25 years later ....WHY IN GODS NAME WOULD ANY ONE STAY..


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, 

What you are experiencing is called "Surviving Infidelity, Life after an Affair."

~sammy


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

If you would have went to MC and therapy you wouldn't be feeling the way you do since Nov 2011.. 

You keep reliving that moment and you haven't learned a single way how to get out of it..

GO TO THERAPY....

Also don't mix religion and therapy.. They just don't mix.. Sorry if I offended you religious types out here.. 

I haven't gone to church in YEARS... YEARS I TELL YOU... 

But I go to therapy every week and rarely, but sometimes twice a week.

You will learn a lot about yourself, your spouse and your marriage.. 

Again I don't know how many times a day, week or month you go through these episodes.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

Hardtohandle said:


> If you would have went to MC and therapy you wouldn't be feeling the way you do since Nov 2011..
> 
> You keep reliving that moment and you haven't learned a single way how to get out of it..
> 
> ...


I started IC a couple of weeks back. I have stopped doing MC since it seemed to doing me more harm than good. She has me coming 3 days a week, seems like a lot to me. :scratchhead: But on the other hand I went today and it actually started to click for me. What I am doing wrong as far as helping myself...I wasn't. I was still making things easy for him and more concerned over his "hurt" than my own. 

I can't keep beating myself up over things he did or didn't do, and his reasons don't make him any less wrong for cheating. All the times I felt better and he'd remember something else.  I believe now it was all about control and doling information out as he saw fit. Every time I'd end up right back at the beginning as far as getting any better. 

Well, he remembered something else this afternoon (right before he left for work of course---no time for me to question him that way) and I told him it was no longer important to just keep it to himself. Then I just walked out of the room got my car keys and went for a ride. I've decided I've had enough of his damn truth to last me 3 life times. 

I'm studying the 180 like it's a life saver, because right now it feels like that and a sanity saver too. I thought I'd done it before, but reading this evening I can see I dropped the ball .... badly last time. Time for a do over me thinks. 

Cross your fingers folks and wish me a better out come than the one I currently have. I just cannot keep going like I had been. I'll lose my mind if I do. Honestly sometimes I feel I already have and I'm just waiting for someone to show up and cart me away to the psychiatric ward.


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## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

Oh my LastDance, I read your post and I hear myself!! 

Through our counseling it's come to light that because of trauma suffered in his childhood my husband developed narcissistic tendencies that if someone had given me a list of traits years ago it would have been so clear. I just saw it as him ya know- not problems per se. He stated that as our years together went along, he would think I should be doing/saying certain things and when I wasn't that he in fact 'deserved' to have these unmet needs fulfilled. 

He recognizes and acknowledges now that it was his behavior towards me all our lives that caused things those 'unfulfilled' needs. Now, although i GREATLY appreciate all the changes to himself that he is making, I still deal with thoughts of - yea, your thinking may have been screwed up, but you were still YOU! The reason for the affair was his flawed thinking, he isn't thinking that way anymore, great, but you did. So, i constantly battle with my head - on one hand I totally see that the future with him will be so much better because he's not that same guy - but on the other hand how do I live with a guy that did those things?!?!?! I for one, don't think you are petty for not being able to let it go, because i feel as though I won't ever be fully able to myself. That's not to say we can't have a great future together - at least, I hope not. It's been almost 9 months since our d day. I am calmer, but have not had one single day where I don't struggle at some point. Lately, i can keep better control and the triggers, anger, sadness don't necessarily ruin my entire day, but it's just always there...and although I would love a day where it doesn't creep in my head...do I REALLY want that? Am i not allowing myself to move forward?

I wonder sometimes because I am full of resentment. Resentment because I DID do all I could all our years together to make his life easier, loved him UNCONDITIONALLY, even when he was being an @sshole that most women wouldn't have put up with, and here I am ..having to deal with this for the rest of my life. Having to compromise my morals and values in order to have the man i love in my life. It pi$$es me off a great deal. 

I also get "I don't remember" about things - it's frustrating. He talked for hours upon hours with this 'person', thousands upon thousands of text messages, admits that he shared no personal connection, nothing of his real self, never spoke about our kids, or me, nothing really about being 'unhappy' in his marriage, so what the he11 did you talk about?!?!? "I don't remember". UGH This was the 'love' of your life - the person you felt you deserved all your life and you 'don't remember'. We see one counselor together and individually and he also sees another one by himself and they've said 2 different things about this 'i don't remember' issue - one says, it's because there was no actual emotional connection and sharing of himself. that the conversations really were nothing, meant nothing so his mind didn't feel any need to retain any of it. The other counselor wonders if he is just not allowing himself to remember. Either way - both answers suck to me and don't help with my wondering how on earth he could become so attached to this 'person' with so sort of actual relationship development. They didn't slowly develop some connection to each other that slowly went to an affair - it literally went right to the affair. 

I do see genuine remorse and commitment and that's the only reason I am still here trying. He is very supportive and is working hard at addressing HIS issues as well as working on us and this new marriage we are trying to have.

quick stats - H & I married 26 years, together since we were 17. we are both 45 - got married at 19. Had been pretty proud that we weren't another 'teenage pregnancy statistic' (I can't feel like that any longer) 2 adult children, affair lasted 6-7 weeks - she is 12 years younger than he is. 

I totally understand where you are coming from, girl, maybe we can vent to each other - it helps to know it's not just you ya know?! i have read a million things about 'how to know you should stay in your marriage' and it lists all the things he is doing and I sometimes wonder why with him doing all the right things then am I still having such trouble, but I really do think it's just part of the deal - time time time and hard work by both spouses.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Omg!! Last dance, you have been suffering as long as I have! My dday is May 2011 !! Why, why are we still where we are? I'm ready too for the looney bin sometimes too! 

Kat24 you speak exactly how it is... 

~sammy


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## totalfive21 (Jun 25, 2014)

Lastdance, 

Your story resonates with so many of us. My DDay was October 2012 -- and my story is similar. I totally understand what you meant by "the look." Sometimes if I ask my husband a question that seems to scratch below the surface, as if I am non-trusting of his whereabouts, actions, etc., I get that look saying "don't tell me you still can't let that incident go, from nearly two years ago, and YOUR lack of trust is what is keeping us in limbo." Like some on this site have replied to you, that look just shows us that there is not complete remorse and understanding on the part of the WS. 

But with all the other positive aspects of the marriage, is it worth abandoning reconciliation? "Love=pain" mentioned in one post on another thread that of all things in life worth taking a gamble on, shouldn't marriage be at the top of the list? I take that to heart and try to be optimistic most of the time. But "Xakulax" in another post to the same thread made an excellent counterpoint, that for all those years of time, money, effort, and a huge chunk of your soul/sanity spent on reconciliation, the reward, if we are lucky, is the marriage we were supposed to have in the first place. What a raw deal.

I guess that's why BS's are part of the "club" that no one wants to join. But we're here.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

kat and sammy please consider yourselves hugged. I hate to say this but I was relieved to know I'm not the only one. Someone "gets it" I knew there had to be others who understood. but some days you just feel so totally lost and alone in it. 

totalfive21 I totally get the anger in realizing the reward for all this pain and work is: "I finally have the marriage I should have had in the first place" And it pisses me off no end as well. 

I keep having these wild mood swings; one moment I am happy to see all the things he's doing to make this right and the next he'll say or do something so incredibly stupid I just want to b1tch slap him into next week. 

Since my "1st" dday I have gone back to work full time (our youngest turned 18 and I was done with homeschooling" got my own car instead of having only "his" which was supposedly ours in the first darn place.... my own insurance so I still have coverage no matter what. Simple things on the surface but they made me feel better and more able to stand on my own. 

He has noticed I am no longer content to stay at home and be at his beck and call so to speak. He isn't especially happy about it but I wasn't thrilled to learn he was a POS ^&* cheater either. ugh I cannot believe how angry all this still makes me at times. 

I guess time will tell. I am hoping for the best, but preparing for the worse. 

I think we all need a nice long vacation away from all this sh1t. Maybe a long road trip or a cruise somewhere relaxing with cool drink and a nice ocean breeze. I've never seen the ocean.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Whenever someone says "something is missing" they externalise this and blame their spouse. 

When the reality is that what was missing was missing from themselves, instead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I've started to read the book; 

How Can I Forgive You?
Janis Abrahms Springs Ph.d

As I find I am stuck, because I think until I can forgive, I can't I do so inside. But at the same time, I dont think I will ever be able to forgive because the hurt and pain has been just to great to carry. 

But this reading has help me see, I can forgive in different ways that I did not realize, that will not have me feeling I am compromising my sense of self and values, because as a bs, as I said, I really dont think I will ever, ever will forgive my h for what he put me through. He broke me, as a partner with him. 

I dont think my limbo will go on indefinitely, as my h and I still dont even live together, sleep together, nor share intimacy, we talk, txt, communicate 24/7 & are probably closer in communicating way more than we ever before. 

But before was better...

~sammy


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I dont really understand forgiveness at that level. I only understand not caring. When you fill up your life so much so that what they did is like a lifetime ago, it feels good and requires no mental gymnastics. 

Some people say they have to forgive to move on. I think if you move on something that feels like forgiveness will happen all by itself. All the mental gymnastics is doing is giving yourself permission to move on but in a pretty painful way.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

MattMatt~ This is something I still struggle with. And so does my husband. He just doesn't see that someone else can't fill all needs. We try to fill as many needs as we can, but there are bound to be things I can not fix or fill hard as I try. Same applies for him, but the difference is I realize expecting someone to fill all my needs is unreasonable. At times it is a bit like dealing with a child who wants something and is demanding you fix it. One who stomps their feet yelling, "I'm bored entertain me." 

Sammy~ I think I may have that book stashed somewhere around here. I know I bought tons of books when Dday hit; searching desperately for answers. I'll have to do some digging around my desk to see if I can find it. 

I hate to admit this but I got so mad reading how I had to take my part of the blame for his affair I threw more than one book across the room.  :scratchhead: *sigh* I still don't accept blame for his choices. If he was so unhappy he should have left me, not cheated. But much as I want those innocent days back that we had before the cheating it's not going to happen. Damn it. 

I'm glad the book is helping you and I'll give it another try since time has passed and it may be a better time to read it. In those early days advice, however will meaning, just didn't penetrate the fog of pain I was in. 

Just read my words over and man oh man do I sound negative. Gotta' work on that. lol Only way is up now. I think I have hit rock bottom. 

I hope you all have a good evening and some great shut eye.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

clipclop2 said:


> I dont really understand forgiveness at that level. I only understand not caring. When you fill up your life so much so that what they did is like a lifetime ago, it feels good and requires no mental gymnastics.
> 
> Some people say they have to forgive to move on. I think if you move on something that feels like forgiveness will happen all by itself. All the mental gymnastics is doing is giving yourself permission to move on but in a pretty painful way.


ClipClop~ Forgiveness has been made harder than it should have been IMHO, because of the amount of trickle truth my husband has dealt me. I feel better and am doing so much better only to have another shoe drop. It feels like it just happened all over again when that happens btw. Good grief, how many dang shoes does the man have?

I care and care deeply or I would have left him long ago. I wouldn't have dealt with the BS of the trickle truth & all the other things thrown my way if I didn't care. Sometimes all your efforts to move on are dismantled by the WS. 

I'm happy to know that others don't have to deal with those things. (Assuming you haven't had to deal with trickle truth moments). I'm relieved to read others move on. It gives me hope, that some day none of this will matter as much as it does now.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

ire8179 said:


> He was bored, it's as simple as that. And it wasn't your fault either, he's bored because he's boring and couldn't keep himself occupied with something positive. That missing thing, he's the one who have to find it not you, you can do everything and it's possible for him to still feel bored
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I agree 100%. I don't see you being blamed as successful reconciliation material. This is another lie. His reason of you being at fault does not sit well and you should not be accepting this.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

Rugs said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I agree 100%. I don't see you being blamed as successful reconciliation material. This is another lie. His reason of you being at fault does not sit well and you should not be accepting this.


I did an honest appraisal of our marriage and the only fault I could find was I was too trusting. Too willing to make life as easy for him as I could. Worked as many hours at work as I could to bring in extra money. Did everything at home: yard care, dishes, cooking, child care,homework helper, laundry you name it I did it. I even learned to change my own oil and repack the wheel cylinders on the truck so he didn't have to. Never once did I turn him down sexually. I went way out of my comfort zone to please him sexually. My only no was to a three way. Other than that I was game. Bent over backwards trying to do the best by him and our children. All this thinking I was doing a good job as a wife and mother. 

I no longer do all those things. They did nothing to safe guard my marriage. I want a partnership not a slave / master situation and that is what my marriage seemed like for a long time. I didn't see it like that then though. All I saw was a man I loved and felt I was never enough. 

I just feel he needs to step up now and do some of the work to make this work. He is changing but some days it seems too little too late. That makes me so dang sad. I hate being this way. I don't want to cry and be miserable. So I am doing more for myself these days. Learning to stand alone so I can face my fears of being on my own if it comes to that. 

I never wanted this. None of it. I never wanted this game and no one asked if I wanted to play. Because I sure as hell didn't. None of us did. 

Sorry for the long vent. Guess I needed to let off some anger...again.


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## Pamvhv (Apr 27, 2014)

I wonder if it's easier to heal with them or without them?


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

Pamvhv said:


> I wonder if it's easier to heal with them or without them?


Logically I'd think with a very giving WS who understood the pain and was totally honest so you could move on it'd be a bit easier. Not that it is ever easy, but with the right help it could be easier to bear I'd think. If you knew everything because they were honest, if they were honestly remorseful and making changes to make sure it never happened again.... It's a long list of what a WS would need to do to help their SO heal; unfortunately it seems many are either not up to the task or unwilling to take it up. Worse some seem blind as to what the BS needs in the first place and do nothing to learn either. Then we have those who will tell the BS it is just too hard for them, too painful etc etc to do what the BS needs. 

At the time I could not even stand to look at the man and couldn't bare the thought of his leaving. I was a white hot mess. Ugh If I could go back in time I'd tell myself to leave him and take some time to myself instead of subjecting myself to what amounted to torture. 

What do you think?


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## Pepper123 (Nov 27, 2012)

I'm would guess healing is easier without theM, as distance offers more opportunity for detachment. Having to see someone on an ongoing basis allows little reminders of any positive qualities or memories to seep into your thoughts and tug on your heart strings. 

OP- Glad you are doing more for yourself. I could have written your post about everything I did as well (except the auto stuff!). Sounds like you need a partner, not a child to look after.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

I can definitely see your points Pepper123. Looking back at what I went through I really would have been in a better place _away_ from WH. 

That is why I am working to get back on my feet financially. I do NOT want to find myself ever in that situation again. Wanting to leave and no job, no money, and no way to do it.


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## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

LastDance said:


> kat and sammy please consider yourselves hugged. I hate to say this but I was relieved to know I'm not the only one. Someone "gets it" I knew there had to be others who understood. but some days you just feel so totally lost and alone in it.
> 
> totalfive21 I totally get the anger in realizing the reward for all this pain and work is: "I finally have the marriage I should have had in the first place" And it pisses me off no end as well.
> 
> ...


Big hug right back. I certainly don't wish this pain on anyone, but sadly, reality is that there are a whoooole lot of us in the same crap spot and i am thankful to have this site to read and connect and not feel so alone in my crazy head! 

Last month I went away with some girlfriends for 3 days - it took ALOT to get myself to commit to going at all! When I said I was going he was fine with it, happy that i was doing something for myself - states often that he wants me to do whatever I need to do to move forward. The thing I sensed he was missing was how difficult it was for me to go, period. That i saw it as such a major step for myself and he didn't seem to recognize that. I had offered dates that he would be working as the dates that worked for me to go and at first he saw that more as a non trusting him thing than what I needed to be able to leave him alone for 3 days. It was frustrating, but through continued talk he got it.
I had a lot of fun with the girls (one of them has all the story, the other 3 know enough) and they were awesome. I totally recommend you taking some time and just getting away for a few days - alone or with friends. It was like a breather. GO SEE THE OCEAN!!!

One of my big difficulties with my anger is this - everything I read keeps telling me I can't get mired down in it, but I AM ANGRY and why would I want to let that go if I'm not ready to?? I know I should, that I will be better when I do, but I'm hangin on to it - has it just not all gotten out yet or I am hanging on when I should be letting go? I can't figure it out.


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## kat24 (May 10, 2014)

LastDance said:


> I did an honest appraisal of our marriage and the only fault I could find was I was too trusting. Too willing to make life as easy for him as I could. Worked as many hours at work as I could to bring in extra money. Did everything at home: yard care, dishes, cooking, child care,homework helper, laundry you name it I did it. I even learned to change my own oil and repack the wheel cylinders on the truck so he didn't have to. Never once did I turn him down sexually. I went way out of my comfort zone to please him sexually. My only no was to a three way. Other than that I was game. Bent over backwards trying to do the best by him and our children. All this thinking I was doing a good job as a wife and mother.
> 
> I no longer do all those things. They did nothing to safe guard my marriage. I want a partnership not a slave / master situation and that is what my marriage seemed like for a long time. I didn't see it like that then though. All I saw was a man I loved and felt I was never enough.
> 
> (


Take out the car stuff and there I am right with ya! Although one of his big narcissistic things was that I 'didn't show him I desired him' because his screwed up view of real love wasn't in reality based on anything real. He saw love as a porn movie (based on some very screwed up childhood stuff) 

He said - if i was that difficult why did you stay with me..and I'm like, because I saw there was more to our love - this is where a lot of my resentment comes in to play - I saw the whole picture and was never really unhappy or thinking I should go out and look for something I thought I was missing and he threw us away for a [email protected] Just like that.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Last Dance, 

We are living the exact life. Believe me I have read every book out there and thrown everyone out the door too and at him. Everything you write word for word in the past two post. I feel exactly the same way. 

Read my story as I was a slave to my house and hub as he was never home, so when he was home I made sure he had no work to do with the house, all he had to do was enjoy his free time ... My life was his...

And now my life has change in profound ways as I have too, and not in a lot of good was yet either, as I am 3 yrs + out, still NOT living w hubs and still trying to come to peace with this all, and still trying to move on to where it is that he & I are to be.

One other thing I started say to myself now that I didnt before, when I get down, scared, angry etc, is, "I'm not going through all of this **** for 'nothing!!!'.. ok now, stop and look hard, where is the silver lining???? No way can there not be...!!!" and I make myself sit down and stop and activity think about that silver lining, my silver lining for me, because like you, we're givers.((close to 30 yrs for me)) 

I haven't thought about "me" since the day before I got married, and believe me, this is sooo hard to do. 


Last Dance, my ic wants me to sign up for dancing lesson, "the tango," so I am, maybe it's time for us to have a "new dance", than the last...

~sammy


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

kat24 said:


> Take out the car stuff and there I am right with ya! Although one of his big narcissistic things was that I 'didn't show him I desired him' because his screwed up view of real love wasn't in reality based on anything real. He saw love as a porn movie (based on some very screwed up childhood stuff)
> 
> He said - if i was that difficult why did you stay with me..and I'm like, because I saw there was more to our love - this is where a lot of my resentment comes in to play - I saw the whole picture and was never really unhappy or thinking I should go out and look for something I thought I was missing and he threw us away for a [email protected] Just like that.


OMG Kat my WS is exactly the same. He saw love as some sex filled kinky porn movie. He believed I couldn't have really loved him based on that ****** point of view. Ditto on the screwed up childhood stuff. Always searching for "the one" and never finding that perfect woman. Right there with you on the resentment too.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

sammy3 said:


> Last Dance,
> 
> We are living the exact life. Believe me I have read every book out there and thrown everyone out the door too and at him. Everything you write word for word in the past two post. I feel exactly the same way.
> 
> ...


Oh Sammy thank you for sharing that with me. I'm sitting here fighting tears because I have felt for so long that my not healin had to be some fault of mine. My WS has certainly fueled that notion but telling me I am unhappy because I am afraid to be happy. Like it has nothing to do with his cheating at all. 

You're right, I have always been a giver too. I don't think that makes us weak like my IC seems to feel. I wasn't born this way I learned it not by receiving so much in life, but because I didn't have all the love and care I needed. 

I learned love not by what I witness so much as doing what I didn't see. My parents were not good role models. 

Learning the tango eh? Sounds like it might be both fun and a bit scary at the same time. I'm not a social butterfly by nature and tend to get tongue tied when meeting someone. But then you are there to talk. lol I hope you go for it and have a ball.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

My husband is working 12 hour days and a lot of them in a row. So I am taking the time to work out a conversation I need to have with him. I don't think it will do any good but still I feel the need to do it. 

I want him to take responsibly for learning and understanding exactly why he cheated instead of me offering up a list for him to chose from. 

I want him to do more to help me than he has, instead of giving me gifts or things, like that will make this all better.  

I truly believe if we do not learn from our past we will continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. But he is very resistant to that line of thinking and believes I am only out to trick him somehow into admitting something he didn't do?! 

I don't get it. I do believe he simply skimmed the surface when he "came clean" with me. And his habit of changing up the story if I am visibly hurt / upset. Or asking me point blank "What was it I told you before, I forgot" Make me sure he continues to lie. 

Like many I stayed for our youngest child (now an adult) but due to health issues he is back at home. I am rushing my youngest through health care just so I can get him out of the house. How very motherly of me huh?  Also due to my own health issues I was unable to return to the work force until fairly recently.

I had been working several months when I was injured at work and have been off since June 13. Sounds like I may need surgery and worse I may not be able to return to my job because of the type of injury. 

I am horrified to find myself once again without my own money. I have been doing research looking for something I can do without having to rely to heavily on upper body strength or repetition. 

It's been difficult to find something I could do.  I looked into it and I might be able to be a security guard, but dang I live in a Boom town with lots of crime and we are the murder capital it seems.

Secretary / office/ data entry work is full of upper body movement. I never really considered just how many jobs require upper body r& repetitious movement of the upper body.

Childcare? Ask any mother with a young child just how much picking up is involved. Personal care? Ditto on lifting and upper body strength. Ugh it's driving me bonkers. There has to be something I can do to support myself. 

My two middle sons have both offered to let me move in with them as a live in housekeeper/nanny/cook. Of course I'd need to get a job too. lol No thanks guys. I had a sample of what my life would be if I chose that. I went two summers back for vacation and came back exhausted. I'm 56 now and what I could do at 25 is vastly different from the reality of what I can do now. 

Thanks for listening to me vent, grip and whine. Maybe someone else can think of new areas to look into for work. I feel like a dog chasing it's own tail right now. 

Give yourself a good day today folks.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Last Dance, I am coming in way late and may be totally redundant, but to me it takes somewhat more than a lifetime to fully heal. In other words, one never really does. He betrayed you, your love, your faith, the family, the marriage and displayed total and utter contempt and selfishness. I have been there and it's hard to see the love of ones life so callously do such things. And in your case, it appears he has pretty much just moved on and only makes minimal efforts to truly understand what he has done and to atone for it.


The Bible tells us to die to ourselves. I suggest you die to your husband. In other words, just go ahead with your life and make it for yourself. Your husband killed your spirit and left you for dead. So be dead to him and alive to yourself. I am not a full believer in the "180", but some of it is very good. You can no longer find your happiness in your husband. You have to find it away from him and in your own way- whatever path that leads you on.


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## LastDance (Jun 8, 2012)

thatbpguy said:


> Last Dance, I am coming in way late and may be totally redundant, but to me it takes somewhat more than a lifetime to fully heal. In other words, one never really does. He betrayed you, your love, your faith, the family, the marriage and displayed total and utter contempt and selfishness. I have been there and it's hard to see the love of ones life so callously do such things. And in your case, it appears he has pretty much just moved on and only makes minimal efforts to truly understand what he has done and to atone for it.
> 
> 
> The Bible tells us to die to ourselves. I suggest you die to your husband. In other words, just go ahead with your life and make it for yourself. Your husband killed your spirit and left you for dead. So be dead to him and alive to yourself. I am not a full believer in the "180", but some of it is very good. You can no longer find your happiness in your husband. You have to find it away from him and in your own way- whatever path that leads you on.



I think a part of me had already figured out we never fully heal from something like this. It is a sad fact to be sure.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

LastDance said:


> I think a part of me had already figured out we never fully heal from something like this. It is a sad fact to be sure.


I think thatbpguy has hit on something for me here

Earlier in the thread I said I simply do not believe in forgiveness just internalizing it away and getting on with life but bpguy ha just helped me with the why "the killing of ones spirit"

That's it.

It takes a lot to put me down, it takes lot to hurt me, because I have a good attitude to adversity. I get straight back up again and keep fighting but inexplicably after years and years just one more random hit will do it for me and I'm never the same again with that person - be they my wife or a friend of work colleague etc - it just does not matter

I let you get away with murder time and again and then bang! whatever that spirit was that bound us is gone - forever 

Thanks bpguy you've just kinda made something a little murky a lot clearer


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