# Justified Name Calling?



## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

My wife and I have been married for 20 years. We've been through a few tragedies and dealt with infertility in that time. We worked through the tragedies, and through the wonders of adoption, we have two beautiful children. My wife began working for a state government agency even before we were married. She is very smart and a hard worker (sometimes almost too hard). She has been promoted numerous times throughout the years and is now one of the administrators of the agency. In that same time, I being a licensed contractor have had instability in income, due to the ups and downs of the economy, however, her job has remained constant. After our daughter was born 10 years ago, it was decided that I would essentially be a stay at home dad, and take on projects on an as needed basis. During this time I did in fact take on projects when they were available, and I also began work as a sales consultant for one of my industry suppliers. In 2013, we decided to invest in an entirely new company with some friends. Of course, like any new business, getting it off the ground and running is a challenge, and taking a consistent salary is very difficult to do. Our new business is picking up steam and we're right on the verge of a big opportunity, however, it's just a waiting game at this point. 

In her current position, she has a lot of stress, and I know she would love nothing more than to quit her job and be a stay at home mom. Unfortunately, financially, that is just not possible right now. She works 50-60 hours per week, and attends school one night a week finishing up her bachelors degree. I take care of our 10 year old and 1 year old, as well as the day-to-day operations of our business. We're both tired from life in general right now, but we have a family rule which is to always say "I Love you" before we leave the house, and before bed at night. 

Anyhow, we went out for a nice dinner on our 20th anniversary several months back, and right in the middle of dinner, she broke down into tears. Needless to say, we left and went home. Once we arrived at home she immediately got into her pajamas and then looked at me with utter disgust and said "I hate you!" She said this because she wants so badly to stay home with the children. It seemed that after a good nights rest, and a few days to settle, things had gotten a little better. In the months to follow, things have been ok, not great, but not bad. Well, just two weeks ago when we were getting ready for the day, I was getting our daughter ready for school, and she was getting ready for work, we got into another discussion (not necc. an argument), and in that discussion she called me a "Loser", because I do not have a steady income. Wow!! My heart hit the floor.... I was able to handle her telling me that she hates me, but for some reason, being called a Loser was just a knife to the heart. I understand her feelings, I really do, and if there was any way possible at this point in time that I could just tell her to quit her job, I would love to do that more than anything. Have I been the perfect husband? Not by any stretch of the imagination. But, the one thing I am good at is "trying." I work my ass off trying to make our new business venture a success, I worked my ass off in construction before the economy collapsed. Whether it's cleaning the house, running all over town with the kids, or staying up until 3 a.m. dealing with our business, I'm always busy. Being called a "loser", especially by someone I felt safe with, was the last thing I would ever expect. 

Now, here we are two weeks later, and it's still affecting my psyche for some reason. Why does my wife calling me a loser sting so much? I feel completely degraded, and almost depressed. I love her and truly respect and appreciate everything she does for this family, and I do think she still loves me too, but the stress is taking over. Now it's to the point where I only hear I love you from my daughter, who I think may have heard her mother call me a loser, but she never said anything. So now I have that to worry about as well. I hope this doesn't come off as me sounding sorry for myself, I'm just truly at a loss for what to do. 

Any advice??


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## sdrawkcab (Jun 16, 2016)

Ouch! That comment really hits below the belt....I can see why you are having a difficult time getting past that. 

It's often said that, for the most part, women need love and men need respect...

It sounds like you and your wife to sit down and figure out a plan that would work for both of you. Can you find a second job so she doesn't have to work long hours? In what ways can you support your wife so she has less stress during this time. Sometimes it's not the matter of doing more but doing things differently... Sounds like a need for a serious brainstorming session (entering into it with empathy)...

...I would also let your wife know how hurt you were by her words...give her an opportunity to apologize and make amends for that.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Are you upset that she thinks you are a loser or because she confirmed something you already think about yourself? This is important.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Where does she get the crazy idea that it's the man's job to support the family while the woman stays home with the kids?

That's so 1960ish.

As an aside that's a weird rule about saying "I Love You" every day.

Seems rather forced.


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## GreyEcho (Sep 28, 2016)

I would tell her straight up how you feel about being labeled a loser..


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

The problem is, with taking care of the kids, and running the business, there literally is no time for a second job. I don't think she understands that. To that point however, I still maintain my contractors license and take on projects from time to time, when they become available. 

Unfortunately, in her position, there is no way for her to work less hours. She is a salaried administrator, so even if I was working full time at a second job, she would still have the same schedule. I do whatever I can to take stress away from her. I clean the house, I cook dinner, etc. After we eat, I sort of retreat into the garage or my office so that she can have alone time with the kids. I don't really think that is healthy either, but if I'm there, I feel like I'm a third wheel. She has said many times that she is jealous of the fact I get to stay home. She's always reminding me of how lucky I am, and I think she feels I take it for granted, which I don't in the least. It's just that I don't think she understands how tired I am after running a business and taking care of the kids. There's honestly times I've cried for her, wishing things could be reversed. 

I did let her know how much that hurt, and her response was well... Not very warm.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

She's obviously building a lot of resentment at keeping her end of the arrangement that the two of you agreed upon before you got married. 

She's had a change of mind and since it can't just happen with a snap of the fingers you're suddenly the bad guy because you cannot magically generate enough income to allow her to live her newly proclaimed fantasy.

This is a no win situation.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

caruso said:


> Where does she get the crazy idea that it's the man's job to support the family while the woman stays home with the kids?
> 
> That's so 1960ish.
> 
> ...


I don't think she feels it's the man's job to support the family, I think she just feels that she's had the consistent salary and benefits for long enough, and she wants to spend more time with the kids. 

As far as the "I Love You", that stems from some of the family tragedies we've experienced. It was more my daughters idea that before we leave the house or go to sleep, that should be the last thing we say to each other, because it may be the last words we ever speak. Dark, I know, but like I said, it comes from experience.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

caruso said:


> She's obviously building a lot of resentment at keeping her end of the arrangement that the two of you agreed upon before you got married.
> 
> She's had a change of mind and since it can't just happen with a snap of the fingers you're suddenly the bad guy because you cannot magically generate enough income to allow her to live her newly proclaimed fantasy.
> 
> This is a no win situation.


It wasn't before we got married. For the first 10 years of our marriage, we both had very good careers and incomes. But, with mine being in the construction industry, the housing bubble sorta gave it a hit. It wasn't until after my daughter was born that it was decided I would stay home.


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## sdrawkcab (Jun 16, 2016)

My questions in my post were meant to put ideas out there, not to determine yes that's possible or no that's not possible.

In brainstorming .... ideas are just listed (no yes/no judgement placed yet)...then, in this case, you and your wife take all of your collective ideas and determine what will work... it's looking for change and not settling on the current state (the state that your wife is emphatically telling you is NOT working for her)...

It sounds like you both are trying so hard to be heard yourselves that neither of you are listening to the other person. Someone has got to start. You're the one here asking for advice, so may I suggest that you enter into a conversation trying to understand your wife's perspective (setting yours aside for a moment)....perhaps, then you can break down the wall of impasse...


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> Are you upset that she thinks you are a loser or because she confirmed something you already think about yourself? This is important.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's just it. I don't (or at least didn't) see myself as a loser. But now I question as to why she would even say that. I honestly don't know how I can try any harder to make things work, professionally speaking.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

sdrawkcab said:


> My questions in my post were meant to put ideas out there, not to determine yes that's possible or no that's not possible.
> 
> In brainstorming .... ideas are just listed (no yes/no judgement placed yet)...then, in this case, you and your wife take all of your collective ideas and determine what will work... it's looking for change and not settling on the current state (the state that your wife is emphatically telling you is NOT working for her)...
> 
> It sounds like you both are trying so hard to be heard yourselves that neither of you are listening to the other person. Someone has got to start. You're the one here asking for advice, so may I suggest that you enter into a conversation trying to understand your wife's perspective (setting yours aside for a moment)....perhaps, then you can break down the wall of impasse...


Yep! I couldn't agree more. The problem is, I can't get her to sit and "brainstorm" without jumping right into judgement. I wholeheartedly understand her perspective, and I do not blame her one little bit for feeling the way she feels about our current life situation. When we do have conversations, I'm honestly not trying to be heard, I mainly listen to her and try to sympathize and show empathy. I think she knows herself there's no way to magically make things change, however, she brings up the same thing every time. Once I thought we worked through it and were on a path, she jumps back to the other path again. My fear now is that my daughter will start having feelings like this. Although, even more worrisome to me is that my daughter will grow up resenting her. She already has made comments to me about how much, and how hard I work, and she's worried about my health. How is she supposed to process why her mom is calling me a Loser, when she notices how hard I work?


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## sdrawkcab (Jun 16, 2016)

Who knows what the potential impact of her words could be for your daughter...but- unless you have a serious conversation with your wife and nip this in the bud (and try and move away from the "I can't" to "what is possible") you'll be living as you are now (no changes) and your fears could possibly be a self-fulfilling prophecy...


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Crafty91722 said:


> I don't think she feels it's the man's job to support the family, I think she just feels that she's had the consistent salary and benefits for long enough, and she wants to spend more time with the kids.
> 
> As far as the "I Love You", that stems from some of the family tragedies we've experienced. It was more my daughters idea that before we leave the house or go to sleep, that should be the last thing we say to each other, because it may be the last words we ever speak. Dark, I know, but like I said, it comes from experience.


It's dark and it's meaningless. So what if it's the last words you ever speak? It's like every time you say those words you're worried something terrible is going to happen. 

Not the best way to start your day. Or finish it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Your wife had a baby about 1 year ago. How much time was she able to take off after child birth?

Has she been more depressed after that birth?

What percentage of the joint income do you now earn? What percentage did you earn when you did the construction work?

How many hours a day do you spend working vs on child care and household stuff?


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

caruso said:


> It's dark and it's meaningless. So what if it's the last words you ever speak? It's like every time you say those words you're worried something terrible is going to happen.
> 
> Not the best way to start your day. Or finish it.


Well, when a 7 year old has a friend who died in a car crash and asks "Do you think she got to tell her mom and dad I love you before she died?" 
and then asks to make it a family rule, that that's the last thing we tell each other before we leave, or go to bed every night, it may be dark, but it's a reality, and it's really not "meaningless"


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

This could bother you because you realize she doesnt have respect of admiration for you. That's important to most men. Question is do you think she ever had those things for you or do you think deep down she just doesn't think much of you and her words finally confirmed it. 

You will have to take a stand with her on this if you want something to change


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Your wife had a baby about 1 year ago. How much time was she able to take off after child birth?
> 
> Has she been more depressed after that birth?
> 
> ...



We adopted our son, and she was able to take the full FMLA time off, plus some additional vacation. 

I earn about 20% of the joint income, and was about 50% before. 

My entire morning and afternoon I spend on childcare and household stuff, then later in the evening and on the weekends I handle all the business stuff.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> This could bother you because you realize she doesnt have respect of admiration for you. That's important to most men. Question is do you think she ever had those things for you or do you think deep down she just doesn't think much of you and her words finally confirmed it.
> 
> You will have to take a stand with her on this if you want something to change


The weird thing is, she always posts online about how proud of me she is, in regards to our business venture. We are expanding now, but like I stated, with payroll and general costs, the salary isn't consistent. I truly believe she is proud of me, and does respect me in her own way. Without getting too deep into it, I see A LOT of her mother in her, and her mother is very much the same way with her dad, but even more extreme. What bothers me is that she notices the way her mom is, and it bothers her, but she doesn't notice herself. 

I also think a lot of it has to do with some of our friends. Quite a few of her friends are SAHM, but, almost all of them have parents who either have, or still do help them out quite a bit. I think she sees that they get to stay home with their kids, and she's envious. However, she doesn't see the fact that their parents have bailed them out of bankruptcy, or actually own the home they're living in, etc.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

This is a tough one for sure. It's not uncommon for the wife of a SAHD to eventually fall into this resentment. It is only tenable for so long before she loses respect for him regardless of how perfect he is at doing the job, and sometimes because he is so good at it. It sounds like you and your wife may have discovered that she is one of those women who needs a man to be the main provider.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> This is a tough one for sure. It's not uncommon for the wife of a SAHD to eventually fall into this resentment. It is only tenable for so long before she loses respect for him regardless of how perfect he is at doing the job, and sometimes because he is so good at it. It sounds like you and your wife may have discovered that she is one of those women who needs a man to be the main provider.


I don't think it's that. I think it just comes down to the fact that she's tired. She's been the consistent breadwinner for 20 years, and just wants a break. I don't blame her for her desires. I just don't understand how she can see me as a "Loser" as though I just sit around all day watching T.V. I mean, hell, right now, even though I'm able to respond to this thread (son is sleeping..lol) I'm doing a teaching credential requirement online (oh yeah, in all of this I got my CTE teaching credentials to also teach, aside from running a business, and take care of the kids).


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Just a heads up: there have been quite a few stories on this site about the SAHD being cheated on by their wives, who is the primary bread winner.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

I honestly think what really bothers me is the fact that she equates me being a "loser" to solely a financial thing. I have two kids who adore me, I believe I am a great father to them, I keep up on all the housework, homework, yardwork, etc. I run a business that is growing and on the cusp of really taking off, I maintain my contractors license credentials and take on projects as they become available, I completed my bachelors degree, I obtained teaching credentials, and I make it a point show affection to her as much as she'll let me.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

You say you are a great father but are you a great husband? The spousal relationship has to come first, even before the parent/children relationship. If you two fail, then the rest will fail as well. You have to jack up your income to at least 50% of the joint income.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> Just a heads up: there have been quite a few stories on this site about the SAHD being cheated on by their wives, who is the primary bread winner.



LOL... Yeah... I guess that's always a possibility, but nothing I'm concerned about with her. 1. she honestly wouldn't have the time, or energy for it. 2. I truly believe that she wouldn't do it. 3. We've joked about that before and how much she'd have to pay me in palimony. 4. Honestly, if she did, that's an issue she'd have to deal with. I'm not the jealous husband type, or anger type. I would just move forward with my life. 

I also don't see any of the tell tale signs of an affair.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Crafty91722 said:


> I honestly think what really bothers me is the fact that she equates me being a "loser" to solely a financial thing. I have two kids who adore me, I believe I am a great father to them, I keep up on all the housework, homework, yardwork, etc. I run a business that is growing and on the cusp of really taking off, I maintain my contractors license credentials and take on projects as they become available, I completed my bachelors degree, I obtained teaching credentials, and I make it a point show affection to her as much as she'll let me.


I am going to venture into some controversial territory here at TAM, but I do think a lot of men have been brainwashed into this idea that taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, doting actually builds and maintains attraction. In some cases, it does, but in a whole lot of cases, not one bit...you can't vacuum your way into a woman's panties. What makes it really difficult is that all of those things are very noble and good, but ultimately don't really build overwhelming respect and admiration from a lot of women, and in a lot of cases, it actually erodes it. Add in the influence of her SAHM friends who are living the stereotypical gender role life... When she brags about you to her friends, no doubt they gush over how lucky she is to have such a great husband, and their praise and gushing is what makes her feel good, not so much the content of what she was telling them.

I forgot if you said or not, but how is your sex life with her? How often does she initiate? How into it is she?


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> You say you are a great father but are you a great husband? The spousal relationship has to come first, even before the parent/children relationship. If you two fail, then the rest will fail as well. You have to jack up your income to at least 50% of the joint income.


That I think is another issue here. I try and be a great husband, as much as she'll let me. She always says "I don't care how much money you do or do not make, as long as you're taking care of the things I need you to take care of." The thing is, even when I do take care of all of that, it's as though I still didn't do a good enough job, and when I do make a mistake, it becomes a major blowup issue for her. The weird thing is, we went to a counselor a few years ago, and she laughed at us because all the things we were doing wrong, where not major issues and we ended up putting ourselves back on track. I also believe our relationship has to come first, so that we can model it to our children. She will come home some nights and is laughing and we hold hands and walk to get ice cream with the kids, but the next morning, I'm a loser.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Crafty91722 said:


> LOL... Yeah... I guess that's always a possibility, but nothing I'm concerned about with her. 1. she honestly wouldn't have the time, or energy for it. 2. I truly believe that she wouldn't do it. 3. We've joked about that before and how much she'd have to pay me in palimony. 4. Honestly, if she did, that's an issue she'd have to deal with. I'm not the jealous husband type, or anger type. I would just move forward with my life.
> 
> I also don't see any of the tell tale signs of an affair.


She could hook up with a coworker who is a thirty seconds guy. It could be one time and that would be considered an affair. I'm not saying it has happened, but women are great at taking secrets to their graves. They're far better at it than men. You need to win back her respect. She's been the primary bread winner for 20 years; it's time for her to take a break. You joking about her having to pay you alimony would only serve to disgust her and cause her to respect you even less, imo. 

You say you have your bachelor's degree, but are you using it?
What will you do once you get your teaching credentials? Will you get a regular 9 to 5 job?
You say you've maintained your contractor's license but is it being used, and are you actively looking for more projects to bring in more income?
Yard work is maybe twice a month, so I wouldn't use it to pad your housework resume.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crafty91722 said:


> I don't think it's that. I think it just comes down to the fact that she's tired. She's been the consistent breadwinner for 20 years, and just wants a break. I don't blame her for her desires. I just don't understand how she can see me as a "Loser" as though I just sit around all day watching T.V. I mean, hell, right now, even though I'm able to respond to this thread (son is sleeping..lol) I'm doing a teaching credential requirement online (oh yeah, in all of this I got my CTE teaching credentials to also teach, aside from running a business, and take care of the kids).


Keep in mind that many men who have a wife who is a SAHM see her as someone who contributes nothing worthwhile to the marriage/family. That's even if she does work part time as you are doing. We have men come here to TAM all that time saying stuff like this. So her outlook is not one that just some women hold.

She probably sees you building strong relationships with your children. This is something that she will never get to do.

She did not go into the marriage with an agreement that she would be the primary breadwinner. This is also something that a lot of men come on TAM and complain about. They married a woman who earned about equally to them, then children come along and the woman decides on her own to stay home with the kids at work part time. The who feel that they had an agreement of shared breadwinner get upset too. Do you know what the advice is that they are given here on TAM? To tell their wife to get a job or they will divorce her. Why? Because she unilaterally broke the agreement of joint-breadwinners that they had when they married.

It's been 10 years. How much effort did you put into job hunting?

What do you do to build your business? Have you sought any help from the SBA? They do a lot to help people build their businesses.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crafty91722 said:


> I honestly think what really bothers me is the fact that she equates me being a "loser" to solely a financial thing. I have two kids who adore me, I believe I am a great father to them, I keep up on all the housework, homework, yardwork, etc.* I run a business that is growing and on the cusp of really taking off*, I maintain my contractors license credentials and take on projects as they become available, I completed my bachelors degree, I obtained teaching credentials, and I make it a point show affection to her as much as she'll let me.


How long have you been running this business?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crafty91722 said:


> That I think is another issue here. I try and be a great husband, as much as she'll let me. She always says "I don't care how much money you do or do not make, as long as you're taking care of the things I need you to take care of." The thing is, even when I do take care of all of that, it's as though I still didn't do a good enough job, and when I do make a mistake, it becomes a major blowup issue for her. The weird thing is, we went to a counselor a few years ago, and she laughed at us because all the things we were doing wrong, where not major issues and we ended up putting ourselves back on track. I also believe our relationship has to come first, so that we can model it to our children. She will come home some nights and is laughing and we hold hands and walk to get ice cream with the kids, but the next morning, I'm a loser.


How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together doing date-like things (quality time), just the 2 of you with no kids around?

There are two books that I think will help you.

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs"

Read them in that order. Do the work yourself that they call out. Then ask her to read them with you and the two of you do the work.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

samyeagar said:


> I am going to venture into some controversial territory here at TAM, but I do think a lot of men have been brainwashed into this idea that taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, doting actually builds and maintains attraction. In some cases, it does, but in a whole lot of cases, not one bit...you can't vacuum your way into a woman's panties. What makes it really difficult is that all of those things are very noble and good, but ultimately don't really build overwhelming respect and admiration from a lot of women, and in a lot of cases, it actually erodes it. Add in the influence of her SAHM friends who are living the stereotypical gender role life... When she brags about you to her friends, no doubt that gush over how lucky she is to have such a great husband, and their praise and gushing is what makes her feel good, not so much the content of what she was telling them.
> 
> I forgot if you said or not, but how is your sex life with her? How often does she initiate? How into it is she?


First off... Vacuum your way into a woman's panties is a great statement... LOL 

I think you're right. I think her respect for me has eroded, which is what saddens me. Again, it's not as though I am simply a SAHD, I have my candle burning at both ends 24/7. What gets me is the fact that her SAHM friends have worse home lives than most people. They constantly complain about not going anywhere, a few of their husbands have cheated on them, etc. I am a cabinetmaker by trade, and her SAHM friends all love my work and say things like "I wish I had a husband that could do that." They even tell her that they would trade their husbands for me, because all their husbands do is work, come home and flop on the couch, or go to a bar. That's why I don't get it. 

As far as our sex life, it's good. Not great, but good. Most of the time it is her initiating it because I am so tired from the day. Nothing has really changed in our sex life, other than the frequency, which is about once a week.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> She could hook up with a coworker who is a thirty seconds guy. It could be one time and that would be considered an affair. I'm not saying it has happened, but women are great at taking secrets to their graves. They're far better at it than men. You need to win back her respect. She's been the primary bread winner for 20 years; it's time for her to take a break. You joking about her having to pay you alimony would only serve to disgust her and cause her to respect you even less, imo.
> 
> You say you have your bachelor's degree, but are you using it?
> What will you do once you get your teaching credentials? Will you get a regular 9 to 5 job?
> ...



It would more than likely be a woman she's hooking up with. She is in an office with 5 women. The palimony jokes are her. I agree with you and am very careful when she makes the joke about "I'd never leave you, because it would cost me too much." 

I am not currently using my degree, only because our business allows me zero additional time at the moment. As far as teaching, I was approached by a friend of mine who's a school admin. They are looking for a cabinetmaking instructor for their school and she asked if I'd be interested. I said absolutely, but I need my credentials first. She's got me into a credential program and is working with me on building a new curriculum. We're hoping our business will be in a position to be run by employees enough to where I could teach. Even if I may not need that income, I would love to teach. 
Yes! I take on projects as they become available. I've bid several projects this year, but like anything else, homeowners are cheap and do not want to spend any money. I've completed two projects this year.
Well, when yardwork is one of the main things she asked me to do, and she doesn't have worry about it, it is a housework resume item for her.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> How many hours a week do you and your wife spend together doing date-like things (quality time), just the 2 of you with no kids around?
> 
> There are two books that I think will help you.
> 
> ...


I think this is where we hit a wall. Since she is away from the house so much, any time for just the two of us is almost un-heard of. Any time she has at home, she wants to (understandably) spend with the kids. That's why when she comes home, after dinner, I sort of just retreat and give her time with the kids. Unless, we go on a walk or bike ride. Any time I ask about going away for a weekend, or even overnight, I get the "I don't get to spend time with the kids like you do..." comment.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Do you have dinner ready for her when she comes home? You need to romance her. Even a hug or a cuddle is better than nothing. Next time, don't retreat to the den. Stick around and just "be there."


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crafty91722 said:


> I think this is where we hit a wall. Since she is away from the house so much, any time for just the two of us is almost un-heard of. Any time she has at home, she wants to (understandably) spend with the kids. That's why when she comes home, after dinner, I sort of just retreat and give her time with the kids. Unless, we go on a walk or bike ride. Any time I ask about going away for a weekend, or even overnight, I get the "I don't get to spend time with the kids like you do..." comment.


That's pretty much what I expected you would answer. There in is your problem. The two of you have neglected your relationship. When you do that it falls apart. That's exactly what's happening. 

If I don't water my garden and pick the weeds, everything out there dies and the weeds take over.

You really need to read those books.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> Do you have dinner ready for her when she comes home? You need to romance her. Even a hug or a cuddle is better than nothing. Next time, don't retreat to the den. Stick around and just "be there."


I try... I generally have dinner ready, unless there's a school event. whenever I try and hug or cuddle her, I get the quick "kiss me and get out of here" peck, or a shove and the "ugg, don't be so gropy" comment. 

I think the other thing that doesn't help is that I'm 70% deaf. I have to wear hearing aids, so when she says something to me 8/10 I have to ask her to repeat herself, and she just "huffs" and says "nevermind." Really nothing I can do about that. I think that also has to do with my retreating.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> That's pretty much what I expected you would answer. There in is your problem. The two of you have neglected your relationship. When you do that it falls apart. That's exactly what's happening.
> 
> If I don't water my garden and pick the weeds, everything out there dies and the weeds take over.
> 
> You really need to read those books.


I wholeheartedly agree with you. but how do you solve that problem when you're the only one who seems interested in solving it? She says she want's things to be better, and when we do talk and have fun together, we have a lot of fun. But, it's few and far between anymore.

But, it still doesn't answer why she views me as a loser.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

70% deaf? Ugh, I didn't expect that nugget. Get different/better hearing aids. Ask her, "What can I do to make your day better?" Learn to give her a sensual foot rubs when she's on the couch unwinding.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> 70% deaf? Ugh, I didn't expect that nugget. Get different/better hearing aids. Ask her, "What can I do to make your day better?" Learn to give her a sensual foot rubs when she's on the couch unwinding.


Nugget LOL.... Not possible, I actually have the best hearing aids on the market. Sadly, I have asked that exact question and the response I got was "Just leave me alone."


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

How's your personal grooming? Even if you're a SAHD, you still can't go with shorts, t-shirt, and messed-up hair. Jeans, long sleeve white shirt folded at the wrist, and combed hair. If you're out of shape, then put up a gym at home and get to it. Get a really good cologne if that helps. You have to stay attractive for her.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Bring her coffee in the morning, do something nice like breakfast in bed just because, make interesting new dishes. Youtube can teach you all of that and more. Tell her about the teaching opportunity that you're looking forward to. Read those two books, like yesterday. It's an uphill climb, but you can do it.


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## Crafty91722 (Sep 29, 2016)

I guess what really gets me is the fact that she is actually caring. She will initiate intimacy, and will snuggle up to me in bed, but when it comes to actual conversation, it's very dicey. I think a lot has to do with my hearing issues, but why would you say that to someone you seem to care about. Even more, the last few weeks since she said it have been fine. No confrontations or anything, yet she has not apologized to me for saying that, which leads me to believe she's not sorry. That's what is hurtful. There's been times in our marriage I've wanted to call her a *****, or even drop the "C" bomb on her, but in my mind I caught myself and said "If this is truly someone you care about, you won't say that, even if you think it's true."


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Crafty91722 said:


> My wife and I have been married for 20 years. We've been through a few tragedies and dealt with infertility in that time. We worked through the tragedies, and through the wonders of adoption, we have two beautiful children. My wife began working for a state government agency even before we were married. She is very smart and a hard worker (sometimes almost too hard). She has been promoted numerous times throughout the years and is now one of the administrators of the agency. In that same time, I being a licensed contractor have had instability in income, due to the ups and downs of the economy, however, her job has remained constant. After our daughter was born 10 years ago, it was decided that I would essentially be a stay at home dad, and take on projects on an as needed basis. During this time I did in fact take on projects when they were available, and I also began work as a sales consultant for one of my industry suppliers. In 2013, we decided to invest in an entirely new company with some friends. Of course, like any new business, getting it off the ground and running is a challenge, and taking a consistent salary is very difficult to do. Our new business is picking up steam and we're right on the verge of a big opportunity, however, it's just a waiting game at this point.
> 
> In her current position, she has a lot of stress, and I know she would love nothing more than to quit her job and be a stay at home mom. Unfortunately, financially, that is just not possible right now. She works 50-60 hours per week, and attends school one night a week finishing up her bachelors degree. I take care of our 10 year old and 1 year old, as well as the day-to-day operations of our business. We're both tired from life in general right now, but we have a family rule which is to always say "I Love you" before we leave the house, and before bed at night.
> 
> ...


Yes. I have some advice for you.

She hates you. She thinks you are a loser.

OK.

Divorce her, with you getting primary custody of your daughter, as the main caregiver.

This is a win-win situation for your wife! She manages to stop having to live with a man she hates and who she perceives to be a loser!

Oh, wait! She would have to pay you alimony and child support?

Oops! Looks like some dirty dog just licked all the gilt off of her gingerbread!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crafty91722 said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with you. but how do you solve that problem when you're the only one who seems interested in solving it? She says she want's things to be better, and when we do talk and have fun together, we have a lot of fun. But, it's few and far between anymore.
> 
> But, it still doesn't answer why she views me as a loser.


I gave referred you to two books that will teach you a lot about how to fix this. That's why I posted them to you. 

I will add another book to the list... "Divorce Busting". In this book pay special attention to the chapter about introducing change into a marriage. It's about now to do this unilaterally. 

Get the books. Do what they suggest.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Crafty91722 said:


> I guess what really gets me is the fact that she is actually caring. She will initiate intimacy, and will snuggle up to me in bed, but when it comes to actual conversation, it's very dicey.


You said that she initiates the sex. And that you are usually too tried to initiate it. So the message to her is that you are not really all that interested in her sexually. This could be another piece of the puzzle. 



Crafty91722 said:


> I think a lot has to do with my hearing issues, but why would you say that to someone you seem to care about. Even more, the last few weeks since she said it have been fine. No confrontations or anything, yet she has not apologized to me for saying that, which leads me to believe she's not sorry. That's what is hurtful. There's been times in our marriage I've wanted to call her a *****, or even drop the "C" bomb on her, but in my mind I caught myself and said "If this is truly someone you care about, you won't say that, even if you think it's true."


You are right. It's best to not say negative things to someone you love. But sometimes people do. She did. Was it wrong? Not if she's really feeling that way. IF she is it needs to be worked out. You need to be having conversations with her about this. 

Your wife is not happy being the major bread winner. You need to find a way to become an equal breadwinner and to work about as many hours as she does. That means that you will need child care for your children at some point.

If your wife is tired and you are tired, it sounds like the two of you also need to figure out how to not be so tired all the time.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Crafty91722 said:


> It wasn't before we got married. For the first 10 years of our marriage, we both had very good careers and incomes. But, with mine being in the construction industry, the housing bubble sorta gave it a hit. It wasn't until after my daughter was born that it was decided I would stay home.


You probably won't like my opinion but I'm giving it anyway. Back then, that was the ONLY choice you had because she had a great job that was secure and yours no longer provided for you. What other choice did you really *have *but the one you made? 

But you've had years to get your sh*t together. She's been forced into a position - year after year after year after year - of having to be the breadwinner because your chosen profession stopped supporting you *years* ago. You've literally had 10 years to reinvent yourself and find something that DOES support the family but instead, you've coasted along being content with working 'sometimes' while she's had to carry the load.

She's* tired* of carrying the damned load. 

She resents the hell out of you and if I'm being honest, I would too if I were her. Sorry.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You probably won't like my opinion but I'm giving it anyway. Back then, that was the ONLY choice you had because she had a great job that was secure and yours no longer provided for you. What other choice did you really *have *but the one you made?
> 
> But you've had years to get your sh*t together. She's been forced into a position - year after year after year after year - of having to be the breadwinner because your chosen profession stopped supporting you *years* ago. You've literally had 10 years to reinvent yourself and find something that DOES support the family but instead, you've coasted along being content with working 'sometimes' while she's had to carry the load.
> 
> ...


This seems to bring things back full circle. While he is a great SAHD, caring and doting husband, that is not what she needs in order to respect him, to appreciate him, to remain attracted to him. She is capable of being the primary financial support, but she doesn't want to do that, is frustrated that she has to, and resents her husband because he is not filling that role. Her SAHM friends gush about how wonderful of a husband she has, and no doubt she enjoys the attention, but in the back of her mind, she is quite likely silently wishing she had their lives, imperfect husbands and all.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Crafty91722 said:


> Nugget LOL.... Not possible, I actually have the best hearing aids on the market. Sadly, I have asked that exact question and the response I got was "Just leave me alone."


Best on the market still may not be the right set and dialed in best for you... I have a set of Starkey Halo2's and they made a big difference on hearing my wife's voice frequency and inflection.

Remember to position yourself for conversations... I can tell when my wife really doesn't want conversation by her efforts to position herself for them. :|


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

Couple of questions since this has gone on for some time but you are spoon feeding us information morsel at a time. I'm beginning to believe you are only presenting information that makes you look good. 

What is this new business you started? 
Who decided to invest in this business?
Without giving away too much, tell us what this big break you're waiting for?
How long have you been waiting for this big break?

Here is my perspective so far. I live in a economically depressed rust-belt state in the mid-west and licensed contractors have more jobs than they can handle. So much so that even unlicensed fly-by-night contractors make a decent living. Homeowners are not cheap. We know what good work cost and we will pay extra for good craftsmanship. If you're not making a good living in construction these days then either your quotes are too high or you have a bad reputation. Am I missing something?


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