# Is it better not to tell? Feeling conflicted.



## LeslieH

I recently was went out-of-town and cheated on my husband of 8 years. I am not proud of what I've done, but I can't say that I completely regret the connection I had with the other person. Regardless, I will not be keeping in touch with the other person ( as he is in a relationship as well) and there likely no chance that we will ever run into each other again. 

I admit that I am really scared to tell my husband. One part of me feels that I should tell him, but a larger part of me feels that telling him would be more hurtful than helpful to our relationship. I read all these articles and blogs about how marriages are never the same and many times worse-off after one partner admits to cheating, so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again? 

I am feeling guilty, but wouldn't it be better to be the only person that feels bad than to drag him down with me? I realize the longer I wait to tell, the worse it will be when/if I do.


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## Entropy3000

What you did is going to hurt the marriage already. Even if he never finds out. You know. That is enough to cause the harm.

The fact that you do not truly regret the connection speaks volumns. You do realize it was a choice you made and that is good. What keeps you from continuing to make such a choice in the future? 

You probably feel that he will never find out. maybe he will or maybe he won't. But his marriage took a huge hit and he does not know about it.

What were the circumstances? So you are foever in NC with this guy. You will never be incontact with him again? I did see that you said you would not keep in touch. But how did you come to be together in the first place?


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## sigma1299

Here's part of why you need to tell him.....



LeslieH said:


> so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again?


Were you planning on doing it this first(??) time??

I'm betting no. So what's going to be different the next time? Answer: unless you do something - nothing.




LeslieH said:


> I am feeling guilty, but wouldn't it be better to be the only person that feels bad than to drag him down with me? I realize the longer I wait to tell, the worse it will be when/if I do.


You say you feel guilty but you don't sound truly remorseful. Look. If you love and respect your husband you know he is entitled to the truth - win, lose or draw. The decision not to tell him is a selfish one, one made because you're scared. You're only justifying that decision with the question above.

You're right, every moment you keep the secret the worse it will be.


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## Jellybeans

The reason you are afraid to tell him is the reason why you should tell him. 

You are afraid of losing your marriage. But when you cheated, that was what you sacrificed--the possibility of that.

Whether you tell or not is up to you. 

If he finds out on his own, it will be 1000x worse, guaranteed.


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## SadSamIAm

LeslieH said:


> I read all these articles and blogs about how marriages are never the same and many times worse-off after one partner admits to cheating


Did you read these articles before or after you cheated?

The damage is done. Whether you admit to it or not. Unless you have no conscience at all, you marriage will never be the same.


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## the guy

Part of me want to tell you not to tell b/c i wish I would have never found out.

Put thats the thing here they always find out.....years from now it will come out of your mouth in a fit of anger, the Om confess and the OMW calls your H,or the guilt will be eating at you for so long that you can't stand it!

At the end of the day they will find out, one way or another it will come out.


Keep doing your research and you will find there to be one constant in everyones story and that is it will come out some how.

I suggest you tell your H the issues you have with boundries and will do the work to fix your self, it will then be his choice to keep you around.


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## moxy

The fact that you don't feel bad and are just kinda worried about consequences and justifying keeping it to yourself by rationalizing that it's the noble thing to do makes it likely that you'll do it again. 

Not telling him allows you to pretend it never happened. If you did it and got away with it, what's to stop you? It's the easy way. Not telling your H is also the easy way. It's also the immature and cowardly thing to do.

Don't be foolish enough to think that "what he doesn't know won't hurt him"; HIV isn't visible, but it will kill you in the end. Go get STD tested, by the way b/c you've put your H at risk for a lot of things without his consent. 

Whether or not you do tell him, you need to figure out why you did it. And, you should take this as a sign that your marriage is in trouble and that the two of you need to work on it.


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## sigma1299

^^ Good advice there.


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## Tall Average Guy

LeslieH said:


> I recently was went out-of-town and cheated on my husband of 8 years. *I am not proud of what I've done, but I can't say that I completely regret the connection I had with the other person. * Regardless, I will not be keeping in touch with the other person ( as he is in a relationship as well) and there likely no chance that we will ever run into each other again.
> 
> I admit that I am really scared to tell my husband. One part of me feels that I should tell him, but a larger part of me feels that telling him would be more hurtful than helpful to our relationship. I read all these articles and blogs about how marriages are never the same and many times worse-off after one partner admits to cheating, *so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again*?
> 
> I am feeling guilty, but wouldn't it be better to be the only person that feels bad than to drag him down with me? I realize the longer I wait to tell, the worse it will be when/if I do.


Why are you never planning on doing it again? You admit that you don't completely regret cheating. Your husband is clueless, so what is to stop you from trying it again the next time you feel a connection?

It is easy to be remorseful when you get caught. Real remorse and regret is shown when it comes even when you could get away with it.

If you love your husband, give him the respect he deserves and tell him. If you are really remorseful, admit what you did. Go to counseling and figure out why you would do this to the man that you love (though you don't actually talk about loving your husband, I will assume that you do).


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## LeslieH

@entropy: I met him on a business trip in a foreign country. 

@sadsamiam: no, after

I realize that at this point I don't deserve the husband I have, but I can't lose him. It's true, I clearly wasn't thinking of this at the time of the affair. I think for me (and clearly this is biased) that if my husband cheated on me once (one night stand type of thing) I'd rather not know.


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## Complexity

So that's 2 relationships destroyed and no remorse.....

I honestly think your husband and his wife/girlfriend should hook up. At least the two of them will have a faithful partner they could rely on.


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## michzz

If you got away with it once you eventually will try it again.

Your best protection is an informed husband.

Look, he may dump you as fast as he can for what you did. But maybe not.

You have ZERO chance of a decent marriage without truth and respect and remorse and repair.

But I suppose if you keep your lie to yourself you have a chance to play house and keep your options open for more cheating.

Win-win? NOT!


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## Jellybeans

LeslieH said:


> I realize that at this point I don't deserve the husband I have, but I can't lose him. .



Actually, you CAN lose him. And my question is: why do you say you "can't" lose him? You already know you f-cked up. The reason you don't want to tell is because of selfish reasons (to keep him in the dark, for your benefit).



LeslieH said:


> I think for me (*and clearly this is biased*) that if my husband cheated on me once (one night stand type of thing) I'd rather not know.


Which is ironic since it fits into justify why you won't tell him ("Well, _I_ wouldn't want to know, so...").

Anyway, all up to you in the end. Just be advised that guilt is a mothertrucker.

I the OM living abroad? Or do you know him from back home? Work with him often? Do you know his wife? Does he know your husband? How did you meet?


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## LeslieH

@ Jellybeans: met abroad, no real reason to contact him, he is not married but has a girlfriend, does not know my husband, we worked at the same hospital together

does any of that really matter?


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## SadSamIAm

If you are a good person that screwed up, your conscience will eat you up. You will have to tell him, just to go on living.

If you are not a good person, you may be able to just forget it and pretend all is fine. If you are not a good person, you will cheat again.

What kind of person are you?


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## river rat

Leslie, I won't presume to tell you what to do, but I will tell you this. My wife never told me; I found out accidentally. It nearly destroyed me. But I fought my way back, on my own. We've never even discussed it directly, but she knows that I know. She is the picture of the remorseful, transparent wife. And we both live with knowing that I will never fully trust her again. Sometimes I wish that she could find a way to tell me, both for her healing and my own.


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## warlock07

This one is a hopeless case. Go do whatever you want. You never planned on telling anyway. We are not here to soothe your guilt


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## Jellybeans

LeslieH said:


> @ Jellybeans: met abroad, no real reason to contact him, he is not married but has a girlfriend, does not know my husband, we worked at the same hospital together
> 
> does any of that really matter?


Well, the more background we know, the better it is to advise you. Also, if you know his girlfriend and he knows your husband, then the betrayal is even bigger.


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## crossbar

Why bother to continue to post? Lets be honest. You're NOT going to tell your husband that you screwed some other guy and that you enjoyed the experience. You're going to continue to live with this, rug sweep it as best that you can and pat yourself on the back for getting away with it!

Your just on here to get it off your chest and tell SOMEONE about it. To try and ease any guilt you may have over this experience. So, in essence...your using us to unload on.


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## bandit.45

LeslieH said:


> @entropy: I met him on a business trip in a foreign country.
> 
> @sadsamiam: no, after
> 
> I realize that at this point I don't deserve the husband I have, but I can't lose him. It's true, I clearly wasn't thinking of this at the time of the affair. I think for me (and clearly this is biased) that if my husband cheated on me once (one night stand type of thing) I'd rather not know.


I don't believe you love your husband. If you did why would you risk hurting him? I think you are in a comfortable marriage that meets your financial and everyday needs but I think you see your husband as a friend for whom you have an affectionate regard. Not love. You're a typical career woman who puts her needs before her husband's. We see your kind here all the time. My wife is cut from the same as cloth as you.

Tell your husband what you did. You owe him the truth after all he has done for you. He has a right to decide his own fate. You do not own his destiny.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity

bandit.45 said:


> I don't believe you love your husband. If you did why would you risk hurting him? I think you are in a comfortable marriage that meets your financial and everyday needs but I think you see your husband as a friend for whom you have an affectionate regard. Not love. You're a typical career woman who puts her needs before her husband's. We see your kind here all the time. My wife is cut from the same as cloth as you.
> 
> Tell your husband what you did. You owe him the truth after all he has done for you. He has a right to decide his own fate. You do not own his destiny.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The worst part is that she doesn't regret "the connection". That's just cruel in my opinion.


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## Entropy3000

LeslieH said:


> @entropy: I met him on a business trip in a foreign country.
> 
> @sadsamiam: no, after
> 
> I realize that at this point I don't deserve the husband I have, but I can't lose him. It's true, I clearly wasn't thinking of this at the time of the affair. I think for me (and clearly this is biased) that if my husband cheated on me once (one night stand type of thing) I'd rather not know.


Early on in my marriage I travelled over seas some on business. On more than one occasion I had "opportunities". I told them I was married and loved my wife. They said she never has to know. Yes I was in Europe. I told them, I would know. I am so glad I made that choice. I have seen a reference to Europe in that men are just supposed to be descreet if not faithful. Not saying this is everyone, as I would have no idea whether this is accepted broadly or not.

You met someone on a trip like this. Can we assume you only knew him a short time? Was this a ONS or was it a short fling ( affair )? This is a very romantic idea indeed. Reminds me of the movie The Other Man.

So your premise is that you will never see this person again. You will have these secrets with another man. The traditional advise I have heard from one woman to another was take it to your grave.

FWIW, I absolutley would want to know. Any chance of R would be thrown away with discovering it on my own.


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## Jellybeans

Entropy3000 said:


> They said she never has to know. Yes I was in Europe. I told them, I would know.


Good response.


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## Thorburn

Most of us here have been hurt by folks like you, a cheater. It is hard to know what to say, because we found out. I can't say whether it is better to have to use a GPS, phone, etc to find out like I did or have my WS confess. I will say this. My wife lied and lied and lied, even when caught and that dear, made it and makes it even more difficult. 

Perhaps in the long run it would have been easier if my wife would have told me, then told me the entire truth, because I am still checking on what she has told me and it has been months, because of all the lies.

Tell him and when you do, tell him all the details, and then anwer all his questions without hesitation.


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## moxy

The screwing up isn't the horrible part. The lying is the horrible part. You made a mistake? Big deal. Hiding it makes it worse. But....you don't really care, do you?


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## Tasorundo

Leslie, I had this same dilema on Friday of last week. I spent most of the day thinking about it, and searching opinions of 'professionals' online.

Finally, I talked to some people, who I actually know and respect. I knew the answer all along was to tell her what I had done. They immediately confirmed what I already knew.

If you are to be a person with integrity, a person that can look at your spouse and feel love for them, there is no choice. You have opened this can of worms, you must let him decide what to do with them.

You may think you are doing him a service by keeping it inside, but ultimately you are robbing both of you at a chance for real intimacy.

I say this as a person that is about 72 hours into a hurricane of my own creation. It is better here, where truth matters, than it is staring at the storm front.


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## par4

DO NOT tell him. It will only cause harm. You need to deal with this by your self.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar

par4 said:


> DO NOT tell him. It will only cause harm. You need to deal with this by your self.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


aanndd.....out of all the posts THIS is the one she'll listen to..


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## Kimberley17

I know I am in the minority but I also say don't tell him. Just move on with your life. Perhaps it made you realize what you already have. Do you know what made you do it to begin with? I think since you did it there is some issue that needs to be worked on. I just think you should leave this detail out and move forward. In spite of what most say on this forum it can be done..


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## Jellybeans

LOL Cross.


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## crossbar

Kimberley17 said:


> I know I am in the minority but I also say don't tell him. Just move on with your life. Perhaps it made you realize what you already have. Do you know what made you do it to begin with? I think since you did it there is some issue that needs to be worked on. I just think you should leave this detail out and move forward. In spite of what most say on this forum it can be done..


aanndd...live your marriage as a lie. Everytime he looks into your eyes and he smiles and says he loves you...that smile would be a lie. Everytime you say it back to him will be a lie because you allowed another man to come between you two.....

Can you honestly say that you will feel NO GUILT when he cuddles close to you and night and holds you in his arms?

Right now, your marriage is a sham... There is always going to be this big elephant in the room and he won't know why.


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## happyman64

> I realize that at this point I don't deserve the husband I have, but I can't lose him. It's true, I clearly wasn't thinking of this at the time of the affair. I think for me (and clearly this is biased) that if my husband cheated on me once (one night stand type of thing) I'd rather not know.


Oh Leslie,

*What you do realize is you do not deserve your husband.* Tell him what you did and see if he feels the same way towards you and the marriage. Be 100% honest and tell him you made a poor choice that you regret if that is truly how you feel.

Who knows you might be surprised what you find out about the man you do not deserve, he might be stronger than you think and cannot live life without you.....

*What you don't realize is that you have already lost him.* You made a bad choice, had sex with another man, put your husband and marriage at risk. Your husband is now clueless to the fact that his wife is unfaithful, has lied to him and keeps secrets in the marriage. 

Face it Leslie, your commitment to your current marriage is broken.

Be honest, tell him what you did. Do not minimize the affair. Tell him how you feel and why you did it.

If you are a good person deep down that made a bad decision, you will realize that disclosure is the only choice in this matter. Your husband has a right to know. If you truly love him then you will tell him.

If you are a coward, then continue as you are living and keep making those choices that you obviously regret.

I am glad you reached out to us. I also understand the burden you bear. Please get tested for std's. We have seen numerous cases where the blindsided spouse found out their cheating significant other gave them the STD. That would be a horrible way for him to find out.

Do the right thing Leslie! 

HM64


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## par4

crossbar said:


> aanndd.....out of all the posts THIS is the one she'll listen to..


Cross lets remember that this is a forum and people are allowed to have different opinions, but we should always understand that we do not have the full story. You are telling someone to enter a world of hurt with out the qualifications to do so.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## par4

And please stop with the standard STD and counseling suggestings. People know that, if they are on here they want to talk about their situation not reprimanded
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kimberley17

Crossbar, you think too much. Things happen in life and people move past it. She may feel guilty at first but people nake mistakes and they can get past this and have a happy marriage. The feelings of guilt will not be thewre in the years to come.


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## par4

Kimberley, After Crossbar.s spouse had a one night stand that was completly meaningless they made the mistake of confessing. Scorned
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar

par4 said:


> Cross lets remember that this is a forum and people are allowed to have different opinions, but we should always understand that we do not have the full story. You are telling someone to enter a world of hurt with out the qualifications to do so.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh...no doubt. I totally get it. But, you also need to look outside the box. What if he finds out on his own? What if the OM girlfriend finds out and contacts him? What if she doesn't get checked for STD's and she does give him something. A lot of women are asymptomatic when it comes to STD's. That's why it's important for women to get annual exams. Doc can come back and say, " Well, we didn't find pre-cancerous cells, but guess what we DID find!"

So, which is worse? Not telling the husband or the husband finding out on his own?


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## sigma1299

Guilt is like cancer - it eats you from the inside out. At least for me and I believe most with a conscious. 

Maybe - M A Y B E - if it was a one time drunken episode I could accept not telling her H, but it wasn't. She had a "connection." The simple truth is she is not getting all that she needs out of her marriage and until solves that she's at a very high risk of doing this again. If she wants a real chance of saving her marriage her best bet is telling him. Of course this is my opinion but I've never seen a lie that was confessed that was nearly as big a deal as a lie that was discovered. Lies just love daylight - it will come out sooner or later - it always does.


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## crossbar

par4 said:


> Kimberley, After Crossbar.s spouse had a one night stand that was completly meaningless they made the mistake of confessing. Scorned
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nah, it wasn't a wife. It was a fiancee and I caught her...but, that was many, many years ago....I think I've adjusted.


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## par4

Taking the chance that he wont find out is best. The hurt would be the same. But once again both you and I are not qualified to give advice, only opinions. And in my opinion you should be very careful
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## par4

sigma1299 said:


> Guilt is like cancer - it eats you from the inside out. At least for me and I believe most with a conscious.
> 
> Maybe - M A Y B E - if it was a one time drunken episode I could accept not telling her H, but it wasn't. She had a "connection." The simple truth is she is not getting all that she needs out of her marriage and until solves that she's at a very high risk of doing this again. If she wants a real chance of saving her marriage her best bet is telling him. Of course this is my opinion but I've never seen a lie that was confessed that was nearly as big a deal as a lie that was discovered. Lies just love daylight - it will come out sooner or later - it always does.


 Your telling someone to go thru pure He LL. Divorce is painful! You do not understand all of the ramifications
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

Yes.

What you did was the unthinkable. He has every right to know. 100% transparency is very important. Not telling him is living in a lie.

This is my opinion anyways. Would you want to know if he did this to you?


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## sigma1299

I understand all of the ramifications as well as you as far as the OP is concerned. Not telling is a lie, a lie of omission, and I can't conceive of a situation where a lie is better than the truth. 

And I'm not telling her to go through hell - I'm advising her to take ownership of her actions and be willing to be held accountable. How is that bad advice. Actions have consequences.


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## snap

> The hurt would be the same.


The hurt would not be the same at all.

Oh, you meant the hurt for her. Fair enough - you're not the kind of people to consider effect of your actions onto others.


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## par4

sigma1299 said:


> I understand all of the ramifications as well as you as far as the OP is concerned. Not telling is a lie, a lie of omission, and I can't conceive of a situation where a lie is better than the truth.
> 
> And I'm not telling her to go through hell - I'm advising her to take ownership of her actions and be willing to be held accountable. How is that bad advice. Actions have consequences.


So rather than having her live with her concious, you want her to destroy the world around her? Dumb...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar

par4 said:


> Taking the chance that he wont find out is best. The hurt would be the same. But once again both you and I are not qualified to give advice, only opinions. And in my opinion you should be very careful
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Okay...look back at my posts. When EXACTLY did I give advice? I only gave my opinion. I don't think you see me saying YOU NEED to tell him, you HAVE to tell him....


And not that it matters....But, I am qualified to do initial mental health screening and refer for long term....not my speciality...

Just saying.....nevermind.


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## Bottled Up

OP doesn't seem too concerned about her husband's disposition in this whole thing, nor am I getting a hint of regret from her either. I've got no advice to give to those who don't want the advice.

Good luck on judgement day Leslie.


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## SadSamIAm

I don't believe that the feelings of guilt will ever go away. Or at least, they never should go away. 

Keeping secrets in a marriage keeps the marriage from ever reaching its potential.


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## par4

crossbar said:


> Okay...look back at my posts. When EXACTLY did I give advice? I only gave my opinion. I don't think you see me saying YOU NEED to tell him, you HAVE to tell him....
> 
> 
> And not that it matters....But, I am qualified to do initial mental health screening and refer for long term....not my speciality...
> 
> Just saying.....nevermind.


I am sure you see the tone of the people posting on here
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299

Whether or not it would destroy her world you and I do not know. My marriage is stronger after D Day of my affair. I know it would either bring them together or drive them apart but I don't know which. And again, I don't want her to destroy anything. All I think she should do is be a grown up and own her actions. How can living a lie be the right answer? Just because she avoids a blow up - or even a divorce today does not make that a preferable out come. To live a life of quiet desperation, with guilt eating her, never having a true connection and bond with her husband because this hidden wedge is between them? No thanks. I'd take the truth and whatever consequences it brought - but that's me.


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## crossbar

par4 said:


> I am sure you see the tone of the people posting on here
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah...But, you called ME out on giving BS advice.


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## par4

oh well, you responded to one of mine, but who cares getting tested and counseling suggestions are getting old. And we should be careful of our advice vs opinions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## crossbar

Look, I don't even know why we're arguing. Chances are the OP isn't coming back because the majority is telling her things she doesn't want to hear. Moot point.


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## snap

par4 said:


> oh well, you responded to one of mine, but who cares getting tested and counseling suggestions are getting old. And we should be careful of our advice vs opinions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Careful assumes "to care". The OP doesn't care about anyone but herself, why should we care about her again?

There is little issue whether the advice turns out good or bad, the poster is not going to come clean anyway.


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## CandieGirl

If she's guilty, and she's on here, she's sending vibes; her H has probably already figured out that something is up.

I agree with the others who say that it'll come out somehow, even if she keeps quiet about it. There are so many different ways to get caught!


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## the guy

My opinion keep qiute and suffer through this painful quilt on your own. Keep this monkey on your back for the rest of your life, as a reminder.

My advise is to tell him b/c someday he will find out, they always do, ands it usually from the wayward, years from now when the marriage has time to deteriorate from this keep secret.


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## Thor

LeslieH said:


> I read all these articles and blogs about how marriages are never the same and many times worse-off after one partner admits to cheating, so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again?


Let's be really clear and precise. It is not the admission which causes the marriage to never be the same. It is the spouse having sex with another person which causes the marriage to never be the same.

I will tell you what I told my wife. Anything which I find out by myself from outside sources is an instant divorce. Anything she tells me about is something we can work on. No guarantees that working on it will save the marriage or make the marriage as good as it was. But finding out from somewhere else is guaranteed divorce.

Your husband deserves to decide how he lives his life based on facts. You do not have the right to take away his informed decision.

If you want to keep your marriage, tell him that you had the fling and that you regret it and that you want to repair the marriage. See a qualified marriage therapist and do absolutely everything possible to make amends.

If you don't really care for your marriage, I would say just divorce him. You don't really need to tell him why you are divorcing him, but it might bring him some closure to know you cheated.


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## skip76

par4 said:


> So rather than having her live with her concious, you want her to destroy the world around her? Dumb...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


she already destroyed the world around her when she cheated, not by telling the truth and trying to fix something. where do you accept justice, we could use this logic with everything in life. lie about everything you do because it will hurt someone else to know the truth. To make matters worse you call him dumb? Dumb for maybe hopng this woman has some character in her to try and atone for her mistakes. Adults suffer the consequences of their actions unless they are self entitled as you are coming across as.


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## TDSC60

par4 said:


> So rather than having her live with her concious, you want her to destroy the world around her? Dumb...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has already destroyed her marriage, her husband just does not know it yet. Are you saying that is more honorable to continue the charade of being a caring, faithful wife, than to be honest? If she cares for her husband one bit she will tell him, because the guilt will come through her actions. One day he is going to ask "Are you OK?" or "What is bothering you?". What is she supposed to do then? Continue to pile lie upon lie?

If she is totally selfish then she will continue to hide the truth. Poor husband will know something is wrong but will not be able to get the truth. He loses either way.


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## skip76

par4 said:


> oh well, you responded to one of mine, but who cares getting tested and counseling suggestions are getting old. And we should be careful of our advice vs opinions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


arent you giving us advice on how to post? you are only complianing because we do not agree with you.


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## crossbar

Angel5112 said:


> If someone is so sensitive that they can't handle the opinions of others, maybe they shouldn’t be posting on an anonymous forum meant for that exact purpose.


For the record. I'm not mad or bitter with the exchange of opinions. People are intitled to their opinion. And I can respect that. Perphaps I'm a little jealous because she lives in Florida.


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## SprucHub

par4 said:


> Your telling someone to go thru pure He LL. Divorce is painful! You do  not understand all of the ramifications
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Par4 - you understand the concept of morality, no? She made a promise, she broke that promise. The consequence if he finds out is possibly divorce. You are saying that she should not tell him because he would choose to leave her. If that would be his reaction, he should know so he can make his own decisions about who he should live with and why. 

Not telling, more than the act, is the ultimate act of disrespect and selfishness. She did something terrible and cannot accept the consequences because of how they would affect her life. That is not love and not a marriage anyone would sign on to.

There is a lot of back and forth about opinions versus advice. While opinions may not be wrong or right, they can be moral, immoral, amoral. Your opinion expresses immoral selfishness. It in no way is designed to "protect" the betrayed husband, it is designed to protect the betrayer's comfortable lifestyle. Husbands and wives do not need to be protected from information about their spouses - good or bad. If she had cancer, she should not tell him because of the pain it would cause?


----------



## hookares

I agree with par4. She should just bury the indiscretion and see if she can conceal it from her husband. If she's good at it, maybe she can pull off a few more PA's before he discovers anything. My ex had me in the dark for over twenty years and I'm certain that I would have preferred to know ALL after the first time so I could dump her and move on.
Of course since I was the sole financial provider, she did all she could to "protect my feelings" and just let me think she was a lo libido wife who only enjoyed fleeting physical contact one or twice a year and if I wanted more, I was a sex addict.
Yeah he really doesn't want to know.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

Kimberley17 said:


> I know I am in the minority but I also say don't tell him. Just move on with your life. Perhaps it made you realize what you already have. Do you know what made you do it to begin with? *I think since you did it there is some issue that needs to be worked on. I just think you should leave this detail out and move forward. *In spite of what most say on this forum it can be done..


You are in the minority because you have chosen the same path. I am not surprised that you would defend your position.

Further, working on certain issues does not work, because one of you are left in the dark about the issues in a marriage. It is like going to a doctor but not telling them that you use drugs. If all the information is not out on the table, the true issues cannot be addressed, because one person does not know the issues. They are trying to fix something without know what exactly is broken.


----------



## Jellybeans

And what happens if he asks her one day "Have you ever cheated on me?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Your marriage officially ended when you chose to cheat. You had no love or respect for your husband when you chose to toss him aside and cheat. Now you are thinking of continuing that way of treating him by letting him continue to be with a wife he thinks he can't trust, when in fact you are not worthy of trust.

If you ever did love him, then find a little bit of that love and tell him, and give him chance to honestly decide if he wants to stay with you. He may, he may not. But it is being respectful to him to let him make his decision knowing the facts.

Right now he is just a fool living a life that is a total and complete lie.

So, do you have any memory of when you once loved him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

par4 said:


> Taking the chance that he wont find out is best. The hurt would be the same. But once again both you and I are not qualified to give advice, only opinions. And in my opinion you should be very careful
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Are you f'ing kidding me? My wife had an affair. She ended it and came clean on her own. If I had discovered her affair from any other source BUT her I would have divorced her without batting an eyelash. It was only because she was honest and up front with me did I resolve to give her another chance. 20 years later and we are planning to restate our vows. I have every qualification to give advice HAVING LIVED THROUGH IT. Not disclosing a betrayal is the same as betraying the spouse over and over every day from that day forward.


----------



## Leveuvenoire

My husband waited a year and half to tell me about his one night stand. You should tell him. It's only getting worse as time goes on. You'd be surprised how much damage it can do. I know all too well....
If you really love him you should care enough to tell him.


----------



## CandieGirl

I've read that it hurts just as much to find out they cheated years ago as it does to find out they cheated last night. Tell him.


----------



## Shaggy

par4 said:


> So rather than having her live with her concious, you want her to destroy the world around her? Dumb...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She already did destroy it. The problem is that her cheated on husband doesn't know the knife has been shoved into his back. Overtime she will rationalize hw she can do it again. She will cheat again, and she will over time get nastier and even less respectful to him. He will be lovng in hell while she is living her cheating life.

She needs to show sne mercy and give her husband the truth so he can know just how much she has betrayed him.

But your advice helps her do nothing right, it only helps her set the stage for more cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## chaos

par4 said:


> Your telling someone to go thru pure He LL. Divorce is painful! You do not understand all of the ramifications
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm divorced and I can tell you that it is not the end of the world. There is life after it.


----------



## sandc

I think the OP has left the building.

She didn't get enough support for her fling so she is gone. Poor guy will never know his wife is a liar and a cheat. She stole something that belonged to her husband and gave it to some guy overseas. So she is a thief too.


----------



## always_hopefull

LeslieH said:


> I realize that at this point *I don't deserve the husband I have*, but I can't lose him. It's true, I wasn't thinking of this at the time of the affair. I think for me (and clearly this is biased) that if my husband cheated on me once (one night stand type of thing) I'd rather not know.


Your actually wrong about the bolded part, it's your H who doesn't deserve you. He doesn't deserve to be cheated on lied to, exposed to STD's and have his health put at risk.

Your worried about loosing him but at this point that's not your choice. You unilaterally went out and made a decision to cheat on your H and put your M at risk. That was your decision to make, now it's your H's turn to choose, he gets to decide if he wants to continue to live with a woman who is not only willing to cheat on him but does not regret it. When you don't regret doing something it means you are not only capable but willing to repeat it. Can you imagine how your H would feel if he not only found out you cheated but you didn't regret "the connection"? How would you feel if it were the other way around?

I myself found out about my exH's ONS three years after the fact and I'll tell you it hurt more that he could look me in the eyes and lie to me for all those years. I felt used. He got to make all the decisions and took my choice away from me. I saw that I lost several years of healing and instead received additional years of pain and deception. 

Others are right, overtime you will feel less guilt as you are able to compartmentalize things, and become a better at deception. You should also know that when that happens it is so much easier to have another A.

Somewhere there is a post about a 99 year old man who divorced his wife of 77 years for cheating over 60 years ago. The pain will not fade for your H over time, however, the length of deception will magnify it. 

I wish you luck in finding the right path, it's not alway easy to do the right thing, especially after you did the wrong thing.


----------



## always_hopefull

par4 said:


> And please stop with the standard STD and counseling suggestings. People know that, if they are on here they want to talk about their situation not reprimanded
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hate to say it but not everyone knows about STD and counseling, my exh had a ons and never did either. I went for an STD check on my own after finding out, 3 years after the fact.


----------



## kittykat09

Anyone and everyone who encourages hiding an affair is selfish beyond words. The cheater already destroyed the marriage, they should at least have the guts to be honest about it and take responsibility for their actions. At the very least, the spouse deserves the chance to make an informed decision about what to do with the situation.

Do you know what the cheater has done to their spouse? They have said that their desire to have sex outside the marriage is worth more to them than their partner's feelings and physical health. In the case of the possibility of passing on deadly diseases like AIDS, the cheater has literally put their sexual desire over the *life*of their partner. Having sex > whether or not their partner dies. 

Why would you ever give advice to spare the feelings of the cheater over those of the betrayed spouse? If they cared so much about not causing their partner pain, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. Disgusting.

You should be ashamed of yourselves. -_-


----------



## AngryandUsed

Jellybeans said:


> And what happens if he asks her one day "Have you ever cheated on me?"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Simple. She will conceal the truth.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Guys, this is a forum for fidelity. The conflict between disclosure or non-disclosure is eternal.
Btw, where is OP?


----------



## bandit.45

She bailed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LeslieH

I'm still here. 

I definitely appreciate everyone's opinions and advice. And while I don't feel that what I've done is because of a lack of love for my husband, I do understand that I have broken our commitment to each other and ruined what we have. 

I just want to clarify a few things about my initial statement.

When I claim that I do not regret the connection I had with the other person, I meant our friendship. The other person is a good person whom I became friends with, I do regret that things became sexual. That has ruined what chance of retaining whatever friendship we had previously established. 

I am going to tell my husband but I have a couple of questions.
1. Should I wait till I get my test results before I talk to him?
(Obviously, we would abstain from sex till then.)

2. I'm still very upset every time I think about talking to him. I read that it's unfair to be emotional when telling your spouse. You are supposed to be more stoic. How do I do this?

3. Full disclosure: OM's girlfriend suspected something was up (they live in separate cities), broke up with OM, but OM made up with her. I have no details of how that ordeal went. Is it inappropriate for me to contact OM and ask about his confrontation? Though we have not had contact since the incident, I do have his contact info since we worked together. And we did part on amicable terms.

4. I am also hearing that I need to discuss what underlying issues we may have. What if I don't think we have nay aside from my infidelity?

5. Do MC's actual work? I'm pretty skeptical. Should I just get individual therapy instead?


----------



## sandc

LeslieH said:


> I'm still here.
> 
> I definitely appreciate everyone's opinions and advice. And while I don't feel that what I've done is because of a lack of love for my husband, I do understand that I have broken our commitment to each other and ruined what we have.
> 
> I just want to clarify a few things about my initial statement.
> 
> When I claim that I do not regret the connection I had with the other person, I meant our friendship. The other person is a good person whom I became friends with, I do regret that things became sexual. That has ruined what chance of retaining whatever friendship we had previously established.
> 
> I am going to tell my husband but I have a couple of questions.
> 1. Should I wait till I get my test results before I talk to him?
> (Obviously, we would abstain from sex till then.)
> 
> 2. I'm still very upset every time I think about talking to him. I read that it's unfair to be emotional when telling your spouse. You are supposed to be more stoic. How do I do this?
> 
> 3. Full disclosure: OM's girlfriend suspected something was up (they live in separate cities), broke up with OM, but OM made up with her. I have no details of how that ordeal went. Is it inappropriate for me to contact OM and ask about his confrontation? Though we have not had contact since the incident, I do have his contact info since we worked together. And we did part on amicable terms.
> 
> 4. I am also hearing that I need to discuss what underlying issues we may have. What if I don't think we have nay aside from my infidelity?
> 
> 5. Do MC's actual work? I'm pretty skeptical. Should I just get individual therapy instead?


First of all, thank you for coming back and continuing to receive counsel.

1. Good. What test results? STD? 
2. That's a good thing too. You should be upset. He will be more upset but that's the decision you made.
3. NO NO NO! Do not contact the OM! NO CONTACT EVER. You have to get rid of these feelings for him. 
4. You do have underlying issues or you would not have cheated on him. There is something broken in you and you need help finding it because you don't think it's there. Normal people do not cheat on their spouses.
5. I'd suggest MC and IT. You may not like what they dig up.

Your husband will be very upset and angry once he gets over the initial shock. Get used to it. If you think there is any chance he may become violent make sure you have safe place to escape to; a friend's house, a women's shelter, whatever. This cheating is like an abscess in your marriage, it's going to hurt like hell to treat it but it has to be done before the healing can begin.


----------



## crossbar

I don't agree with number two. You SHOULD be emotional about it. It would show that you are ashamed and remorseful. NOT being emotional just shows that you're flipant about the whole thing.


----------



## SprucHub

LeslieH said:


> I'm still here.
> 
> I definitely appreciate everyone's opinions and advice. And while I don't feel that what I've done is because of a lack of love for my husband, I do understand that I have broken our commitment to each other and ruined what we have.
> 
> I just want to clarify a few things about my initial statement.
> 
> When I claim that I do not regret the connection I had with the other person, I meant our friendship. The other person is a good person whom I became friends with, I do regret that things became sexual. That has ruined what chance of retaining whatever friendship we had previously established.
> 
> I am going to tell my husband but I have a couple of questions.
> 1. Should I wait till I get my test results before I talk to him?
> (Obviously, we would abstain from sex till then.)
> 
> 2. I'm still very upset every time I think about talking to him. I read that it's unfair to be emotional when telling your spouse. You are supposed to be more stoic. How do I do this?
> 
> 3. Full disclosure: OM's girlfriend suspected something was up (they live in separate cities), broke up with OM, but OM made up with her. I have no details of how that ordeal went. Is it inappropriate for me to contact OM and ask about his confrontation? Though we have not had contact since the incident, I do have his contact info since we worked together. And we did part on amicable terms.
> 
> 4. I am also hearing that I need to discuss what underlying issues we may have. What if I don't think we have nay aside from my infidelity?
> 
> 5. Do MC's actual work? I'm pretty skeptical. Should I just get individual therapy instead?


Good for you Leslie. 

I cannot really help with your questions, other than to say you should do what is right and not pretend to be something you aren't (e.g., stoic).


----------



## Entropy3000

crossbar said:


> I don't agree with number two. You SHOULD be emotional about it. It would show that you are ashamed and remorseful. NOT being emotional just shows that you're flipant about the whole thing.


Agreed. No emotion would be even more hurtful IMO.
Showing remorse and badly because you have hurt someone is all good. No emotion no matter what the words say, is cold, matter of fact and uncaring. It does not deliver the right message.


----------



## X-unknown

LeslieH said:


> I am going to tell my husband but I have a couple of questions.
> 1. Should I wait till I get my test results before I talk to him?
> (Obviously, we would abstain from sex till then.)
> 
> 3. Full disclosure: OM's girlfriend suspected something was up (they live in separate cities), broke up with OM, but OM made up with her. I have no details of how that ordeal went. Is it inappropriate for me to contact OM and ask about his confrontation? Though we have not had contact since the incident, I do have his contact info since we worked together. And we did part on amicable terms.
> 
> 4. I am also hearing that I need to discuss what underlying issues we may have. What if I don't think we have nay aside from my infidelity?
> 
> 5. Do MC's actual work? I'm pretty skeptical. Should I just get individual therapy instead?


I don't know if this helps but my wife had the same problem as you. She didn't feel she could just come out and say what was going on but... she could tell me we "needed" couples therapy. This drew things out but I think (Just my opinion) when you tell him this it will be very useful to have someone else present who is educated on this and can hopefully make educated suggestions. Having a 3rd person present may help to cool things off if they get out of control. 

Your "Friend" (Ok, this term triggers me) may have ruined your marriage. He has at least changed it so it won't be the same again. This is not my idea of a friend. You have to contact him once to cut things off. 

If you bump into him I urge you to tell your husband so he doesn't find out and assume your sneaking around.

Individual therapy was suggested for both of us while we have been doing couples therapy. I also had a talk with my doctor about some meds to help me with depression etc... 

When he finds out I think you would do well to have the resource of a trained expert on hand for a variety of reasons.

STD tests... If your going to come clean and tell him everything he will have tests done pretty soon one way or the other.

Do this as fast as you can. One of the hardest issues with us has been how long its taken to get this out in the open.


----------



## LeslieH

Overall, I have found this forum to be very helpful. I've learned a lot about how my actions and non-action can effect others. I've also, and unfortunately, learned that a lot of people out there are pretty cruel when it comes to people asking for help. 

I came here to ask for help, not looking approval for my transgression. I didn't need people to accuse me of using my husband for security or being a career woman or claiming that I don't love him at all. 

I don't understand where people get off on just telling people that they are terrible human beings. I needed this forum to gather resolve, not to be retold that what I've done is wrong. 

And while cheating isn't to be condoned, it's not abnormal. It's unfortunately a very common issue, why else would there be an entire forum on infidelity!


----------



## bandit.45

You feel attacked because most of us are betrayed spouses. We are the walking wounded, and we tend to lash out in anger.

You do need counseling. I believe you love your husband, but what I see is your main problem is a lack of _personal boundaries. _ You allowed this friend to get too close, and because you had no boundaries set up, the affair built up like a snowball rolling down the hill. Once it started you could not stop it.

Please do not leave the board. Keep talking to us and we can give you alot of positive feedback too. It sounds to me like you feel guilty for what you did. Now you have to translate that into true remorse. 

Remorse happens when you see what your actions have done to your husband when you tell him. You need to make him know that you understand the hurt you have caused him and that you will do anything to fix what you have done. 

You need to tell him EVERYTHING, every detail about the affair (how many times, where, when, did you enjoy it, was he better than me in bed?, and on and on). Be prepared to answer everything. Not doing so is trickle truthing and that is worse than lying.

I think you should also resign from your job if it is going to bring you into contact with this man again.


----------



## bryanp

I would suggest that you write everything you wish to say to your husband in a letter. Give the letter to your husband and sit with him while he reads it and have him not say anything until he finishes completely when you have written. I comment you for being honest. It is the right thing to do. Good luck.


----------



## AngryandUsed

If you are remorseful, feel for him - and you say you love him- AND your husband is a mature person, you may have easier path.

It is going to be hard, very hard for him, remember.

He may take time to react, it is natural. The anger grows over weeks and months. The agony of betrayal is takes really long to subside....

Hard for both of you.

Take a good care. Choose a right time, right place, and right ambiance. Use right words.

Accept responsibility for what you have done. 

Again, take care.


----------



## CandieGirl

LeslieH said:


> *When I claim that I do not regret the connection I had with the other person, I meant our friendship. The other person is a good person whom I became friends with, I do regret that things became sexual. That has ruined what chance of retaining whatever friendship we had previously established. *


And this is EXACTLY why I am so adamantly opposed to my own husband's proposed friendship with his old colleague...'she's such a good person'...'she is such a good friend'...'she is sooo funny'...'she's just like one of the guys'.......NO, NO, NO and NO.

Well, OP, good luck to you whatever you decide to do. It's not easy, that's for sure!


----------



## CandieGirl

LeslieH said:


> Overall, I have found this forum to be very helpful. I've learned a lot about how my actions and non-action can effect others. I've also, and unfortunately, learned that a lot of people out there are pretty cruel when it comes to people asking for help.
> 
> I came here to ask for help, not looking approval for my transgression. I didn't need people to accuse me of using my husband for security or being a career woman or claiming that I don't love him at all.
> 
> I don't understand where people get off on just telling people that they are terrible human beings. I needed this forum to gather resolve, not to be retold that what I've done is wrong.
> 
> And while cheating isn't to be condoned, it's not abnormal. It's unfortunately a very common issue, why else would there be an entire forum on infidelity!


This is a hot and emotional topic for many of us here; we've been through it, and reading stories like yours brings up our own pain...try not to take it personally. I think you're a good person who is looking to do the right thing. Otherwise, you'd be sitting in your basement, bragging to a girlfriend about your conquest over a glass of wine, planning your next tryst!


----------



## Entropy3000

LeslieH said:


> Overall, I have found this forum to be very helpful. I've learned a lot about how my actions and non-action can effect others. I've also, and unfortunately, learned that a lot of people out there are pretty cruel when it comes to people asking for help.
> 
> I came here to ask for help, not looking approval for my transgression. I didn't need people to accuse me of using my husband for security or being a career woman or claiming that I don't love him at all.
> 
> I don't understand where people get off on just telling people that they are terrible human beings. I needed this forum to gather resolve, not to be retold that what I've done is wrong.
> 
> And while cheating isn't to be condoned, it's not abnormal. It's unfortunately a very common issue, why else would there be an entire forum on infidelity!


I am not a BS. I had an EA. I was wrong. 

This forum is a buffet. That is it's strong point. You get many opinions. Sometimes people do attack. However, I suggest you also view this as tough love from a good many folks. Some others are an example of the pain that unfaithfulness brings. Understanding what our betrayal has done to others is cathartic and part of the process to recovery. You were wrong in what you did. There is no justification to an affair. Your affair is on you. If you can accept this then you have a chance to recover. If you intend to use this to blame shift to your husband then good luck with that. I am not saying you are or are not doing this. Only you truly know when you are completely over your affair by going NC.

Cancer is a common issue. Hunger is a common issue. Abuse is a common issue. I do see these as abnormal in a healthy sense. So as with cheating. Cheating is all too common. It is an abnormalty in a healthy relationship. It is very much a cancer. My point is while it is common, it is a very big deal. Your husband is going to feel extremely violated. But it is best to let him know.

I have a wonderful relationship with my wife. My EA was about 15 years ago. It will take both of you to make this work. If you were adult enough to share yourself with another man you are adult enough to deal with the results. I sincerely hope you are able to get this turned around and can recover with your husband. 

Good people can make bad choices. Good people however deal with the consequences and take steps to not make the same choices again.

Frist you need to do what it takes to reconsile with your husband. Down the road is the time for you to soul search and forgive yourself. You will need that to be the best wife to your husband. I went through levels of forgiving myself. I did not want to let myself off the hook so easily. That helps with accountability. Being accountable is uncommon these days. It took a very long time for me to truly forgive myself. I did not realize I was holding onto it. But as I say there is time for that later. Ideally your husband will be the one who says to let it go. It was many years for me.


----------



## Initfortheduration

LeslieH said:


> Overall, I have found this forum to be very helpful. I've learned a lot about how my actions and non-action can effect others. I've also, and unfortunately, learned that a lot of people out there are pretty cruel when it comes to people asking for help.
> 
> I came here to ask for help, not looking approval for my transgression. I didn't need people to accuse me of using my husband for security or being a career woman or claiming that I don't love him at all.
> 
> I don't understand where people get off on just telling people that they are terrible human beings. I needed this forum to gather resolve, not to be retold that what I've done is wrong.
> 
> And while cheating isn't to be condoned, it's not abnormal. It's unfortunately a very common issue, why else would there be an entire forum on infidelity!


Excuse me Leslie, I guess you were looking for dispassionate advice regarding your cheating. Allow me to acquaint you with this board. It is absolutely chocked full of people (and the remains of people) who have lived through what you did to your spouse. They are not marriage counselors. They are emotional road kill. I think you should hold back judgement on them until you look in the face of your husband when you tell him. The betrayed people who come on here are trying to cope with what their spouses did to them. They volunteer their experiences and can be harsh with cheaters such as yourself. You have no idea how they feel because you were not cheated on. When you said, "I can't say that I completely regret the connection I had with the other person", you basically opened a can of wup a$$ on yourself. So go tell your husband what you did, and my advice to you, is to be a mascara and snot running mess.

Oh, you said that you read a lot of the forums here. Did you happen to read the ones where the husband and wives tried to get over it for a couple of years and then committed suicide? So as mistreated as you feel, try to imagine that the person that you loved body soul (if you love anyone body and soul) did this to you, and it effected you so acutely that death is preferable to the pain. After doing that, then come back here and complain about the treatment you receive. WTFU!


----------



## sandc

LeslieH said:


> Overall, I have found this forum to be very helpful. I've learned a lot about how my actions and non-action can effect others. I've also, and unfortunately, learned that a lot of people out there are pretty cruel when it comes to people asking for help.
> 
> I came here to ask for help, not looking approval for my transgression. I didn't need people to accuse me of using my husband for security or being a career woman or claiming that I don't love him at all.
> 
> I don't understand where people get off on just telling people that they are terrible human beings. I needed this forum to gather resolve, not to be retold that what I've done is wrong.
> 
> And while cheating isn't to be condoned, it's not abnormal. It's unfortunately a very common issue, why else would there be an entire forum on infidelity!


Sorry but cheating IS abnormal.


----------



## sigma1299

LeslieH said:


> I'm still here.
> 
> I definitely appreciate everyone's opinions and advice. And while I don't feel that what I've done is because of a lack of love for my husband, I do understand that I have broken our commitment to each other and ruined what we have.
> 
> I just want to clarify a few things about my initial statement.
> 
> When I claim that I do not regret the connection I had with the other person, I meant our friendship. The other person is a good person whom I became friends with, I do regret that things became sexual. That has ruined what chance of retaining whatever friendship we had previously established.
> 
> I am going to tell my husband but I have a couple of questions.
> 1. Should I wait till I get my test results before I talk to him?
> (Obviously, we would abstain from sex till then.)
> 
> 2. I'm still very upset every time I think about talking to him. I read that it's unfair to be emotional when telling your spouse. You are supposed to be more stoic. How do I do this?
> 
> 3. Full disclosure: OM's girlfriend suspected something was up (they live in separate cities), broke up with OM, but OM made up with her. I have no details of how that ordeal went. Is it inappropriate for me to contact OM and ask about his confrontation? Though we have not had contact since the incident, I do have his contact info since we worked together. And we did part on amicable terms.
> 
> 4. I am also hearing that I need to discuss what underlying issues we may have. What if I don't think we have nay aside from my infidelity?
> 
> 5. Do MC's actual work? I'm pretty skeptical. Should I just get individual therapy instead?


1. No. There is no need to wait. It's like trying to wait for the right time, it will never come. Just do it. 

2. What you need to be is committed to telling him all of the truth in one horrible conversation. Trust me - I know from experience - it's hard to do this if you're emotional. You will really have to prepare yourself to keep pounding him with the truth when he is an absolute wreck and all he wants is for it to stop. DO NOT STOP UNTIL IT IS ALL OUT THERE!! If you take any one piece of advice take this one. Why? This is a one shot deal. If you don't get all the truth out the very first time you're trickle truthing him which is just horrible and it will be harder on both of you to go back later. 

3. Yes it is inappropriate. No contact is no contact. His relationship is not your concern, you have enough to worry about with your own marriage. Close that door and throw away the key - period the end. 

4. I thought this to. It took the people here on TAM to educate me. Not only are there issues in your marriage (you not getting all of your needs met), but there is an also something you need to address with you. Something sent you outside the marriage to get those needs met - you need to find it in yourself and deal with it. Again, trust me - it's there. 

5. I have no personal experience so can't give an opinion. 

What you need to accept is that the marriage you had is over. The marriage in front of you can be better, worse or over - it's up to you and your H. How your husband feels about reconciliation will be largely influenced by how honest you are and how you treat him during and after D Day. It can be done. My wife and I have a better marriage now, 18 months after D day, than we did before. It's hard, but it can be done.


----------



## LeslieH

I told him.
He didn't ask me any questions. Just cursed and left. I left too, to give him his space. I left him a note and he texted me that he doesn't want to see me for a couple of days.
Am heartbroken, but can't complain, this is what was coming to me.

Should I call and text and email or wait for him to contact me? Should I send him flowers? Is there anything I can do at this point?


----------



## Initfortheduration

Flowers????? Tell you what, why don't you sit down and journal what you are feeling. And your thoughts. Leave him alone, text him once in the morning to let him know your whereabouts and then in the evening once. Let him know that no response is necessary, and that you just wanted to check in. Give him access to all your e-mail accounts, and passwords. Do you have kids?


----------



## LeslieH

No kids. Why are email passwords necessary? If he asks for it I will give them to him, but what good will offering them up do? Even when our relationship was good, we never exchanged email passwords. We have a shared bank account but we don't even share our separate pins. 

And I'm sorry, but I've never cheated on someone before! I don't know how to go about trying to reconcile. I will call him in the morning, to be honest I've never liked the whole text thing. It avoids confrontation. But sincerely, thank you for your assistance, I will give hims pace till the morning.


----------



## bandit.45

Give him space. Let him contact you.

Where are you? With friends, family? Have you let him know where you are staying? If you haven't you need to or else he'll think you're with the other man. His mind is racing a million miles an hour right now trying to cope with the atom bomb you just dropped on him. 

Just be accessible and ready to come to him when he needs you. You'll probably want to take some time off work. You are in for one hell of a toboggan ride. 

He may cry and fall apart. At that moment he will be more unattractive to you than you have ever seen him. Just hold him and reassure him that you are there. The next few weeks may be a nightmare as he "triggers" with the thoughts of you having sex with the other man. You are going to say "I'm sorry" over a million times. Get used to those two words, because you will be saying them alot. Might as well have a tattoo of those two words inscribed on your chest. 

Men are visual thinkers, and right now there is a XXX porno playing over and over in your husband's head of you doing the nastiest sexual things to the other guy that a man can imagine, even if no such things really did happen. But this is what he will see with his waking eyes, over... and over... and over. 

I don't envy you the coming months.


----------



## bandit.45

LeslieH said:


> No kids. Why are email passwords necessary? If he asks for it I will give them to him, but what good will offering them up do? Even when our relationship was good, we never exchanged email passwords. We have a shared bank account but we don't even share our separate pins.


Transparency, that's why.

All good, healthy marriages are made of transparency, openness and honesty. Maybe if your marriage had had more transparency, you would not be in the fix you are now. 



> And I'm sorry, but I've never cheated on someone before! I don't know how to go about trying to reconcile. I will call him in the morning, to be honest I've never liked the whole text thing. It avoids confrontation. But sincerely, thank you for your assistance, I will give hims pace till the morning


You only have to steal once to be a thief. Same with adultery.

Like it or not you have been branded with the scarlet letter. Its a permanent scar that will never fade. Accept what you did, take ownership of it, and drop the defensiveness. You can not afford to be defensive now. Your marriage is on the line, and its up to you to do the heavy lifting and take the lashes to repair it.

Get in touch with a marriage counselor tomorrow and set up an intake for you and your husband. Be proactive and start working to show your husband you want to make things right.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Show him this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64

Tell him you love him. Tell him you are giving him space and that you will check in with him daily.

Let him know when he is ready to talk you will be there for him.

He needs to process what you have told him.

Again, Just let him know you will be there when he is ready to see you. His emotions will be all over the place.

I am glad you told him. If you really love him then hang on tight when he is ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lost in Hell

I didn't read this whole thread but I am screaming inside. This sounds fairly similar to what my wife did, only I found out about it on my own. The lies started and continued until I finally said enough is enough sometime last week. No chance to reconcile by withholding or not telling the truth. It's going to hurt like hell either way he finds out. In my opinion it will be worse the longer you wait or if he finds out on his own.

You obviously didn't respect your husband or marriage vows enough not to do this regardless of your marriage circumstances. 

Selfish. Your marriage as you know it is over. Accept that fact and be ready for whatever he decides is best for him.

Edit-just read you told him. Hang on, the roller coaster is about to go full speed ahead.


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## JustWaiting

You did the right thing in telling him. Your husband has a lot of questions right now. His imagination is running wild. He feels rejected, hurt and betrayed and doesn't know if he trusts you or can ever trust you again. He may be getting advice from friends, and the advice can be as brutal as some of the comments you've read here. When I found out, all but one person told me to leave her. That one person said, "do you love her? "what do you want", and then told me stories of couples she knew (and i knew) who had gone through the same thing and recovered. I was shocked. All of those couples seemed to me to have strong and happy marriages. The woman who gave the advice was my mother.

I've seen several suggestions, and I'll just pass them on without making a recommendation. One is for the WS to take a polygraph addressing if this was the only time, if you are committed to the marriage, if you love him. Don't tell him you are getting one and don't wait for him to request it. Just do it. If you fail, I wouldn't pass that along. If you pass, I'd send that along as a gift in lieu of flowers. Another suggestion I've seen is a fishbowl. The bowl is filled with any and every question he has. You answer each and every question honestly. If there are a lot of questions, you can spread out the process over time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sigma1299

Can anyone quickly locate that post that Lordmayhem makes with advice for waywards on how to treat their betrayed spouse?


----------



## Almostrecovered

sigma1299 said:


> Can anyone quickly locate that post that Lordmayhem makes with advice for waywards on how to treat their betrayed spouse?


it's in the newbie thread

click my newbie link in my signature


----------



## Initfortheduration

LeslieH said:


> No kids. Why are email passwords necessary? If he asks for it I will give them to him, but what good will offering them up do? Even when our relationship was good, we never exchanged email passwords. We have a shared bank account but we don't even share our separate pins.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but I've never cheated on someone before! I don't know how to go about trying to reconcile. I will call him in the morning, to be honest I've never liked the whole text thing. It avoids confrontation. But sincerely, thank you for your assistance, I will give hims pace till the morning.


So then what you are saying, is your still in contact with the OM, or you like to keep things from your husband? That would be the only reason not to give him your e-mail. Those with nothing to hide, hide nothing. The reason you give him your e-mails is it is most likely the vehicle you used to run your husband over. Am I wrong? You didn't just jump into bed with this guy, right? This wasn't a drunken rut, right? No you were a dishonest person before this happened. The sex was just the consummation of your betrayal. By all means call your husband and let him roll out some well thought out names for you. The reason you text, is because it allows him the space you said you were going to give him. YOU DON'T LIKE TEXTING? First off, it ain't about you. Its about him. You had your marriage, no one took it from you. He sets the pace for his healing. 

You're in medicine right? When a person has a concussion or has a traumatic brain injury and is unconscientious, you don't take them by the shoulders and violently shake them to wake them up, right? They need to stabilize and wake up on their own. Let your husband wake up on his own. His wife just died, and he has to grieve the loss of her. You are an evil doppelganger who murdered his wife and has taken his loves place. His wife, the love of his life, would have never betrayed him like this. Now he has to think if can love the person who did this to him and his chaste bride. So you do what you think is best, just go and shake him real hard and throw in a few slaps, that will wake him up. Oh and be sure to tell him what was lacking in your marriage that allowed you to do this. That will help his healing process. Yeah, give him a call. You set the pace for his healing. It's all about you anyways.


----------



## sigma1299

I maybe thinking of chapparel's post. I'm on my phone and can't search for it...


----------



## Almostrecovered

yes it was chap's post- 3rd post in the newbie thread (I quoted it)


----------



## NextTimeAround

Leveuvenoire said:


> My husband waited a year and half to tell me about his one night stand. You should tell him. It's only getting worse as time goes on. You'd be surprised how much damage it can do. I know all too well....
> If you really love him you should care enough to tell him.


What made him decide to finally tell you?


----------



## Initfortheduration

One of my favorite contrition songs. You should listen to it. Its by Linda Rhonstadt. Its a song about somebody who would do anything, ANYTHING to restore what she lost.

Love has no pride.

I've had bad dreams too many times
To think that they don't mean much anymore
And fine times have gone and left my sad home
And the friends who once cared just walk out my door

But love has no pride when I call out your name
And love has no pride when there's no one to blame
But I'd give anything to see you again

I've been alone too many nights
To think that you could come back again
I've heard you talk
She's crazy to stay
But this love hurt's me so
I don't care what you say

But love has no pride when I call out your name
And love has no pride when there's no one to blame
But I'd give anything to see you again

If I could buy your love
Then I'd surely try my friend
And if I could pray
My prayers would never end
But if you want me to beg
I'll fall down on my knees
And ask you to come back
I'd be pleading for you to come back
I'd beg for you to come back to me

Love has no pride when I call out your name
And love has no pride when there's no one but myself to blame
But I'd give anything to see you again
Yes I'd give anything to see you again

If you aren't willing to do it. You don't want it that bad.


----------



## Gratitude

bandit.45 said:


> You need to tell him EVERYTHING, every detail about the affair (how many times, where, when, did you enjoy it, was he better than me in bed?, and on and on). Be prepared to answer everything. Not doing so is trickle truthing and that is worse than lying.


I disagree. I don't think spouse's need to go into details of how many times, was he better, did you enjoy it. It's not information that he really wants to hear the answers to and it's just hurtful. If he asks, lie. Don't kick him while he's down.

Why would you EVER tell your husband that the guy you had an affair with was better in bed than him? What does that achieve? Who does that help? I don't believe in going into details when people confess to their partners their affairs. They say they want to know. But they don't. Not things like that. Would you? If you love them, spare them.


----------



## turnera

Do you really want a marriage in which you two are not best friends?

Best friends share everything.

What you have now is a financial and psychological convenience.


----------



## turnera

LeslieH said:


> Even when our relationship was good, we never exchanged email passwords.


Does that mean it was bad before you went on this trip?


----------



## Initfortheduration

Gratitude said:


> I disagree. I don't think spouse's need to go into details of how many times, was he better, did you enjoy it. It's not information that he really wants to hear the answers to and it's just hurtful. If he asks, lie. Don't kick him while he's down.
> 
> Why would you EVER tell your husband that the guy you had an affair with was better in bed than him? What does that achieve? Who does that help? I don't believe in going into details when people confess to their partners their affairs. They say they want to know. But they don't. Not things like that. Would you? If you love them, spare them.


On another subject, regarding The Secret. I live in Arizona where one of the authors was put on trial because he made a home made sweat lodge and wouldn't allow the people out. I think 4 died. He'll be in prison a while. Just take it with a grain of salt. Its been pretty much debunct here in the USA.

And I don't agree, with you. Given the choice of being radically honest or being cast out. I think radical honesty is better then losing them. You may not agree.


----------



## Gratitude

Initfortheduration said:


> On another subject, regarding The Secret. I live in Arizona where one of the authors was put on trial because he made a home made sweat lodge and wouldn't allow the people out. I think 4 died. He'll be in prison a while. Just take it with a grain of salt. Its been pretty much debunct here in the USA.
> 
> And I don't agree, with you. Given the choice of being radically honest or being cast out. I think radical honesty is better then losing them. You may not agree.


Another guy on The Secret got arrested for mail fraud. Just because they weren't good people, doesn't mean the principal isn't. The Secret requries nothing more than positive thinking and being grateful for what you have, and believing anything is possible. How can that be a bad thing for anybody.

And you're right, I don't agree. But that's why we all have our own opinions  Radical honesty in these situations only causes unnecessary pain for the spouse. I wouldn't put my partner through that. The affair would be painful enough to digest let alone being told all the details so they can have that go around their head forever. But if that would be your way, I hope that would work for you.


----------



## NextTimeAround

As I was reading this thread, I was trying to see things from the OP's advantage. She could choose to not tell her H and hope and pray that he doesn't find out. Then she could continue a marriage in which she feels empowered, capable of fooling around and getting away with whatever she wants and then thinking less and less of her husband because then she will start to wonder, how could he not know?

The other risk would be if her husband found out through other means; risk his feelings of having been betrayed twice and risking the collapse of her marriage at a time inconvenient for the OP.

This is why I am a big supporter of snooping now. I don't ever want to be in a relationship where I am making sacrifices for him only to learn that he is doing whatever he GDW pleases.

Before I unwound the EA situation with my boyfriend, I remember while we had busy (good busy I thought) weekend, Sunday was St. Patrick's Day. We stayed in and watched TV and drank a bit much.

He decided to bring up an unpleasant incident 3 months earlier in which a strange woman in the airport had approached us. When I realised that there was no common language between us, I tried to ignore her and create some space between us. (My personal security is never second to making some stranger feel comfortable). HE felt that I behaved "selfishly" towards her.

My boyfriend then went on to remind me of a less than positive remark I had made about him. I then reminded him that that was during the time that he was seeing his EA and I didn't like that I was being put in the one down position. She was just a friend, he said. (I later on found quite a bit of information that would suggest that if she was just a friend, then I was certainly getting a raw deal as a girlfriend,)

Now what was interesting about this exchange was that I later found out that his EA was one of those types that did the binge drinking, pub crawl stuff with her friends. HE had been invited to St. Pat's reveries with her the year before, lots of photos of the evening with him right there with her on her FB (this was before he met me), but not this year......because of me, I guess. 

I really don't like it when anyone, in particular my partner, is dredging up some non issue to demonise me because he's missing something about an inappropriate relationship that he's supposed to be over.

These days, once I decide that the complaint is a non-issue, I do start digging deeper. Are you missing something or someone? Is there something you should be telling me? This is one way how affairs do get out to the BS. 

OP, you could have slipped up too.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Gratitude said:


> Another guy on The Secret got arrested for mail fraud. Just because they weren't good people, doesn't mean the principal isn't. The Secret requries nothing more than positive thinking and being grateful for what you have, and believing anything is possible. How can that be a bad thing for anybody.
> 
> And you're right, I don't agree. But that's why we all have our own opinions  Radical honesty in these situations only causes unnecessary pain for the spouse. I wouldn't put my partner through that. The affair would be painful enough to digest let alone being told all the details so they can have that go around their head forever. But if that would be your way, I hope that would work for you.


Yeah, they all read Norman Vincent Peale and just changed the words. There was nothing new in this, and it certainly wasn't a secret, other then how they wrote the book. Hey I have a great idea for a song. Its called "Escalator to paradise" Its real slow and melodic. People may think that it is "Stairway to heaven" But its not.


----------



## Gratitude

Initfortheduration said:


> Yeah, they all read Norman Vincent Peale and just changed the words. There was nothing new in this, and it certainly wasn't a secret, other then how they wrote the book. Hey I have a great idea for a song. Its called "Escalator to paradise" Its real slow and melodic. People may think that it is "Stairway to heaven" But its not.


Does it matter? If it helps people in their lives, gives them a positive outlook and a belief that they can change their life and do anything ... does it matter?

Religion is based on faith. Some people agree with the teachings, and some don't. But if it's what helps them in life then who is anyone to take that away from them.

Apology to OP for hijacking thread.


----------



## Jellybeans

OP never came back


----------



## chaos

She last posted here yesterday at 10:48 AM. I think it is a bit premature to say that she never came back.


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh didn't see that.


----------



## CandieGirl

Initfortheduration said:


> Yeah, they all read Norman Vincent Peale and just changed the words. There was nothing new in this, and it certainly wasn't a secret, other then how they wrote the book. Hey I have a great idea for a song. Its called "Escalator to paradise" Its real slow and melodic. People may think that it is "Stairway to heaven" But its not.


Escalator to Paradise...frigging PRICELESS!!! LMAO!!!

:rofl:

I read the Secret; don't remember anything about it...but I did take a lot from 'He's just not that into you' when I was single.


----------



## Jellybeans

LeslieH said:


> No kids. Why are email passwords necessary? If he asks for it I will give them to him, but what good will offering them up do? Even when our relationship was good, we never exchanged email passwords. We have a shared bank account but we don't even share our separate pins.
> 
> And I'm sorry, but I've never cheated on someone before! I don't know how to go about trying to reconcile. I will call him in the morning, to be honest I've never liked the whole text thing. It avoids confrontation. But sincerely, thank you for your assistance, I will give hims pace till the morning.


The passwords will help with transparency if you decide to reconcile. 

I say give him his space. Be available for him when he wants to talk.


----------



## sigma1299

Jellybeans said:


> The passwords will help with transparency if you decide to reconcile.
> 
> I say give him his space. Be available for him when he wants to talk.


I agree but I think the idea of simply checking in via text two or three times a day is a good one. It's up to the cheater to keep the door open if they want to reconcile - no matter how many times their spouse slams it in their face.


----------



## Jellybeans

True


----------



## Tall Average Guy

LeslieH said:


> Overall, I have found this forum to be very helpful. I've learned a lot about how my actions and non-action can effect others. I've also, and unfortunately, learned that a lot of people out there are pretty cruel when it comes to people asking for help.
> 
> I came here to ask for help, not looking approval for my transgression. I didn't need people to accuse me of using my husband for security or being a career woman or claiming that I don't love him at all.
> 
> I don't understand where people get off on just telling people that they are terrible human beings. I needed this forum to gather resolve, not to be retold that what I've done is wrong.
> 
> And while cheating isn't to be condoned, it's not abnormal. It's unfortunately a very common issue, why else would there be an entire forum on infidelity!


One thing to recognize (and I hope it will help you with your husband) is that your choice of words matters. Your initial post said that you did not regret sleeping with the other guy. Even though you tried to explain that later, such a statement is certainly going to rattle more than a few cages around here. Couple that with considering not telling him, and you can certainly see why many would not be your biggest fans.

With that in mind, I am glad you came back and told your husband. Work hard to show him that you love him and regret doing this to him. I wish you luck.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Gratitude said:


> Does it matter? If it helps people in their lives, gives them a positive outlook and a belief that they can change their life and do anything ... does it matter?
> 
> Religion is based on faith. Some people agree with the teachings, and some don't. But if it's what helps them in life then who is anyone to take that away from them.
> 
> Apology to OP for hijacking thread.


Just pulling your leg.


----------



## Gratitude

Initfortheduration said:


> Just pulling your leg.


----------



## river rat

Leslie, I'm sending you compassion and hope. I commend you for your honesty. Carrying such a dark secret would have poisoned you and your relationship w/ your husband. Yes, some of the responses have been harsh, but as the bandit pointed out they are coming form people with fresh wounds. Right now your husband has been similarly wounded. It will take time and patience for him to heal. You will get differing advice as to how much detail to give him. I would suggest that you ask him what he wants to know, and then be as forthright as you can be. I, for one, did not want a lot of detail. I wanted to know who and why. It may be that you don't really know why at this point. I suggest that you see an IC as well as an MC to try to find out what it is about you that allowed this to happen. My wife was never able to address the affair directly. She answered my questions in terms of hypotheticals, such as "Why would someone do this or that?" In answering these questions she revealed a lot of intimate details about herself that I had not discovered in over 25 years of marriage. And now to offer the hope part- we are still together and we still lover each other more than 10 yrs later. My prayers are with you and your husband.


----------



## Gooch78

I personally wouldnt tell. Would you want to leave your husband and want to break your family (have kids)? There are somethings we will have to live with in secret, he also probably has secrets himself. I beleive you will grow out of it and realize your family is most important over everything and nothing should and can break that. All the best.


----------



## LeslieH

Almostrecovered said:


> it's in the newbie thread
> 
> click my newbie link in my signature


I actually clicked on these last night and read them. They are very useful. Thank you.




turnera said:


> Does that mean it was bad before you went on this trip?


No, I just think we trusted each other that much. There was never a need or a wonder about what the other was doing. Our relationship was never bad. I'm sure this will make everyone angrier, but he was perfect. He loved me, respected me, and honored me and I repaid him by being selfish and I guess, *****-ish. That is the only reason I can seem to think of right now.

I am currently not staying in our home, per his request. I know he has gone out-of-town for a day or two and we are going to see a MC on Monday. If he does not show it will just turn into an IC session. 

He has only been communicating with me via email and texts. I am trying to give him his space. My sister, whom I am staying with, insists that I am not doing enough to get him back. I do not want to harass him though if he wants his space. Should I harass him anyway? I've also been tempted to call one of his friends and have him check up on my husband for me. Is that wrong? At this point should I just leave him alone? My impulse is to keep trying to contact him, but my impulses are what ruined everything for us.

I understand and am willing to do whatever it takes to get him back. I don't want to mess up again.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Give him space, as he requested. Follow his lead. A couple of days cooling off won't hurt you or the marriage. If you think it will help, write down your thoughts and then read it to him in counseling (that is if you don't think you can get out what you want to say, due to the stress of the situation). 

You are going to find out about what is called triggering. You or he, will not know what triggers him initially, but you will find out. It could be something as innocuous as a street sign, or him not being able to contact you or find you for a mere moment in time. He could go into a depression, or he could become very clingy. He may want sex all the time (which is called hysterical bonding) in trying to take back what is his. Or he could get physically sick and throw up at your touch. No one knows how the betrayed spouse will react.

Get some books and read them. There is a reading list available.

Did either of you ever state to one another that any infidelity would be quits?


----------



## sigma1299

Don't feel like you're the only one Leslie. My marriage was really good when I cheated to. It took my EA for my wife and I to realize that we had both become complacent and comfortable in the relationship - we had stopped "dating" each other. 

I hate to ask what is likely a stupid question, but sometimes the obvious can get missed. Have you told him you are sorry? You cannot say it too many times, even if he wants his space. That and "I love you" (assuming it's genuine) he cannot hear to many times. Hearing them may cause him to backlash at you with questions like, "then why the fvck did you do this to me?" Answer as best you can and say them again. And again. And again.


----------



## mychoice

Many of you are serious? You really recommend taking the victim's choices away? Sick...it's all just sick.

You've no right. Once you pass from entitlement into "protection", you've entered into the place where only one belongs. You are not a "God", you have no right in this place.

To treat another with appropriate care...one must let go of self. If you truly respect another you really are in a position of "letting go". Until you understand it is no longer under your control you've really learned nothing and clearly care only for yourself. "I" as a betrayed owe you anything? You are owed absolutely nothing. You deserve nothing. You harbor a secret that will forever taint your future. For everyday YOU choose YOU, you prove you really are nothing.

I guess our level of integrity is always at our own whim. Pity...for a good person is one of humility and understands he is selfish and works contrary to his autonomic reaction to "life". Because, life, the living of life, is little more than the selfish application of our "integrity". Sadly, it is rarely for the good of another.

Choose as you will. I've no doubt your guide will be you...surely not him. Your sin will become deeper and deeper.


----------



## morituri

Leslie, your husband will have many questions and it is your job to answer them as truthfully, honestly, and completely as possible. DO NOT answer any of them with "I don't know" so if you can't answer one of his questions, simply say "I'm trying come up to the answers to those questions. Can you give me a chance to find out?". And DO NOT trickle truth him, or hold out on telling the whole truth out of fear he'll leave you for good. Doing so will almost certainly push him in that direction.

We may be able to help you find some of those answers but you have to give us more details on the steps that lead you to be sexually intimate with the OM.


----------



## sigma1299

Heads up to all.... She told him.



LeslieH said:


> I told him.


So for purposes of this thread and helping the the OP the debate of to tell or not is over. She made her choice - the right one in my opinion.


----------



## turnera

Take things slowly. Sometimes it takes weeks or months before they can be around you again. No matter what, you did the right thing. I know it doesn't seem like it now, but if your marriage survives, it will HAVE to be one of more awareness and honesty and care.


----------



## morituri

sigma1299 said:


> Heads up to all.... She told him.
> 
> 
> 
> So for purposes of this thread and helping the the OP the debate of to tell or not is over. She made her choice - the right one in my opinion.


I'm aware of that but I still stand by my comments from my last post.


----------



## sigma1299

morituri said:


> I'm aware of that but I still stand by my comments from my last post.


Wasn't pointed at you at all morituri - not at anyone really. Just seemed like the debate of is it right to tell or not to tell was still ongoing and as far as this thread is concerned it's now a totally philosophical issue. 

I agree with your post completely.


----------



## bandit.45

I should have made myself clearer when I wrote about the "tell everything". What I should have said and meant to say was, *"only if he asks those questions"*.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Give him some time and space. I just wanted to chime in to encourage you that you made the right decision. Years ago, I did some things I shouldn't have done. I never told my wife since there was no way anyone but me would ever know. She knew something was up, but not what. The guilt also ate at me for years. At one point, a little later, she did a couple of things and didn't tell me. I also knew something was up, but not what. Anyway, I finally came clean a couple of weeks ago or so. It is a relief to have that burden off my chest.

Even if your husband had never found out, this thing would have been between you forever. It would have prevented you two from being completely intimate with one another, as it did with my wife and me. Honesty is always the best policy. Of course, it would have been the much better if those things had never happened. However, hiding it only intensifies the horribleness. Take it from someone who made both of those horrible mistakes. You did the right thing.


----------



## snap

Must admit I was skeptical you'd ever come clean, but you proven me wrong. Glad that you still have some decency within you, all might not be lost yet.

Good luck Leslie.


----------



## bandit.45

Keep talking to us Leslie. You're heading down the right path, even though it will be a rocky one.


----------



## mychoice

No doubt..a liar lies. It is now she'll know who she really is. Too many I've seen. Now she will try to control. I know her. She will kill me softly. She will do all in a her "good will". I will die in her honesty.


----------



## Almostrecovered

huh?


----------



## bandit.45

Random schizophrenia.


----------



## Ingalls

Leslie I can't even believe I'm going to say this, bc I am on the receiving end of this, but stay strong and know that no one can judge you for your actions and you have done right by being honest. It sucks, hurts, and there will be lots of work for both of you. 

If my H would have told me right away I would still have lots of hurt, anger, trust issues, etc BUT had he of told me that next day I wouldn't have these same feelings PLUS doubt, second guessing my reasons for staying, was our entire 21 year marriage a lie, etc. 

Best of luck

*correction: he hid it so I had the same feelings PLUS doubt...(maybe you got that without my edit)


----------



## NextTimeAround

HurtinginTN said:


> Even if your husband had never found out, this thing would have been between you forever. * It would have prevented you two from being completely intimate with one another,* as it did with my wife and me. Honesty is always the best policy. Of course, it would have been the much better if those things had never happened. However, hiding it only intensifies the horribleness. Take it from someone who made both of those horrible mistakes. You did the right thing.


I agree with this. I also feel that when one partner feels as if "they've gotten away" with something, it creates subconciously an element of arrogance in which the WP is always looking down on the BP.


----------



## sinnister

mychoice said:


> No doubt..a liar lies. It is now she'll know who she really is. Too many I've seen. Now she will try to control. I know her. She will kill me softly. She will do all in a her "good will". I will die in her honesty.


For realz!

I been trying to say this but the words always came out wrong. Your articulate use of analogy has put it all into perspective.

Nawww just having a little fun with ya.


----------



## sinnister

Leslie...I congratulate for standing infront of the fire squad you created. Your husband is in hell, but he may well come out of it with help, guidance, love and support from you.


----------



## Traggy

To all you people telling her not to tell her husband. You make me sick. This is exactly why STD's are out of control. You morally lacking individuals need to really look at this from the very least a medical side.

You can possibly be killing someone by not being honest.


----------



## LeslieH

Initfortheduration said:


> Did either of you ever state to one another that any infidelity would be quits?


This was probably the main reason why I didn't want to tell him. He has been cheated on before by previous girlfriends and told me it was a dealbreaker. I've never cheated on or been cheated on by anyone else before. 



sigma1299 said:


> I hate to ask what is likely a stupid question, but sometimes the obvious can get missed. Have you told him you are sorry?


Yes, I have. I am trying to take the advice from some other thread about trying to keep reinforcing what I'm sorry about when I apologize. I am also telling him that I love him, because I sincerely do...I know it's something I have to show more than ever. I just hope he gives me the chance to.

I am giving him space.



morituri said:


> We may be able to help you find some of those answers but you have to give us more details on the steps that lead you to be sexually intimate with the OM.


Maybe later tonight.


----------



## AngryandUsed

Show him this thread, I think you missed it.


----------



## Initfortheduration

LeslieH said:


> This was probably the main reason why I didn't want to tell him. He has been cheated on before by previous girlfriends and told me it was a dealbreaker. I've never cheated on or been cheated on by anyone else before.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have. I am trying to take the advice from some other thread about trying to keep reinforcing what I'm sorry about when I apologize. I am also telling him that I love him, because I sincerely do...I know it's something I have to show more than ever. I just hope he gives me the chance to.
> 
> I am giving him space.
> 
> You're gonna have a very hard road to hoe. If he has been cheated on before, he can now lump you into "all women are cheaters", which is no more accurate then all men are cheaters, but it his life experience that reinforces it. At least you confessed. You need to point this out to him, not as a defense, but as a sign of your true contrition.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe later tonight.


----------



## Initfortheduration

LeslieH said:


> This was probably the main reason why I didn't want to tell him. He has been cheated on before by previous girlfriends and told me it was a dealbreaker. I've never cheated on or been cheated on by anyone else before.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have. I am trying to take the advice from some other thread about trying to keep reinforcing what I'm sorry about when I apologize. I am also telling him that I love him, because I sincerely do...I know it's something I have to show more than ever. I just hope he gives me the chance to.
> 
> I am giving him space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe later tonight.


You're gonna have a very hard road to hoe. If he has been cheated on before, he can now lump you into "all women are cheaters", which is no more accurate then all men are cheaters, but it his life experience that reinforces it. At least you confessed. You need to point this out to him, not as a defense, but as a sign of your true contrition.


----------



## Jeff/BC

LeslieH said:


> so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again?


You get to look in the mirror and see a decent human being. That'd be a pretty strong benefit to me. 



> I am feeling guilty, but wouldn't it be better to be the only person that feels bad than to drag him down with me? I realize the longer I wait to tell, the worse it will be when/if I do.


That depends on the man. I don't have the kneejerk OMG reaction that a lot of men seem to about this sort of thing. My reaction would depend on ALL the factors of the situation and how you brought it to my attention (or I found out on my own). I had no expectation of perfection when I married my wife. I understand that we all make mistakes and tragically enough, some of the mistakes we make our doozies. I would not be able to toss away the 15 years of happiness, devotion and love that Carol has given me for one transgression no matter how hurtful assuming the recovery was graceful. To me, that's got "baby and bathwater" written all over it. For me, what matters most, by far, is how the other person handles the mistake. That's what I'm really measuring.

How do you think you're doing on this one?


----------



## NextTimeAround

****so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again?****

In practical terms and in looking at it from your advantage, the benefit to you to tell your husband is that it's better to hear it from you than to find out about it through other means. 

This is the gamble that many WS make when they decide not to disclose it. But as others have said, your spouse could find out by
1. the om tells him, especially if the om was expecting more out of you and wanted to exact revenge
2. the omw or gf (I can't remember with your specific situation) may tell your H as well.
3. some other things may trickle out, the odd question that's asked to you in front of your H; the fact that you gave him an STD;
4. something weird left around the house or somewhere else. I figured out that my exH was having an affair on the basis that I saw a John Grey book in his suitcase. For so long, he had pooh-poohed self help books. And yet here he was carrying one around to read on the plane.

I asked a mutual friend (or I thought mutual) about it, his answer: But I'm friends with both of you.

Anyway, if you had never told him about this intransigence AND he never found compelling evidence of it, you could go through the marriage and to your work related trips away comfortable in the belief that you could do whatever the hell you wanted to and your (gullible) husband will never find out. It has been my experience, even when you are on the right track about something, they will deny, deny, deny until you show them hard evidence of their not telling the truth.

And not only will you feel emboldened by it, but you will also pity him to the point where you can no longer have any respect for him. 

Because you see, if you didn't tell him in the first place, then you had no respect for him. So when would you have respect for him?


----------



## sandc

Leslie,
I want to congratulate you for doing the right thing. Character is all about making the right choices even when you know the outcome will be bad. Yes, you made a huge mistake. No matter what happens you will be better person at the other end of all this for the choice you made to tell the truth. Hang in there.

And to the mob: no, I'm not condoning the affair, I am congratulating someone who decided to do the right thing.


----------



## bandit.45

sandc said:


> Leslie,
> I want to congratulate you for doing the right thing. Character is all about making the right choices even when you know the outcome will be bad. Yes, you made a huge *mistake*. No matter what happens you will be better person at the other end of all this for the choice you made to tell the truth. Hang in there.
> 
> And to the mob: no, I'm not condoning the affair, I am congratulating someone who decided to do the right thing.


No, not a mistake. Pulling the wrong size blouse off the rack and buying it without trying it on is a mistake. 

This was a premeditated decision made to get something she wanted: sex with another man. Simple. 

Telling her it was a "mistake" is to minimize her culpability. She has to completely own this action and figure out why she made the decision to go forward with it.


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## Initfortheduration

The most important thing about readying ones self for reconciliation (speaking of the cheating party), is acceptance of FULL RESPONSIBILITY, and can be best described by the words "WITHOUT MENTAL RESERVATION". That means 100%.


----------



## LeslieH

I'm going to share what happened, in hopes that you can all help me figure out why I decided to act selfishly and throw away the best relationship I have ever had, also my best friend.

What Happened (short story):

I'm not sure what info is relevant. So here is the short of it.
Was working in a country I hated.
Met OM on a Thursday at the hospital I was working at.
OM is also a foreigner.
Felt instant spark for OM, even though I couldn't point to why
Had lunch with OM and get-to-know-you-banter
OM goes to local metropolis on weekends to visit GF
OM did not visit GF that weekend.
I am not in town that weekend.
Monday was my 30th birthday.
Towards the end of the night we kiss. I played it off as just a drunk thing, not a big deal. 
Tuesday, I avoided him till the evening. He accompanied me on a walk and we just talk. 

Wednesday he invites me over for dinner. I go over. Everything is fine and platonic seeming till he gives me a present.
I am shocked and skeptical of the gift but gave him a hug. He continued to hold me and then we were kissing again. When he tried to remove some of my clothing, I left. He followed me and I told him that what we were doing was wrong. And why he wasn't feeling guilty or that anything was wrong with this. His response was that this felt different to him and that it felt good, and what's wrong with doing something that felt good.

Thursday, a group of us goes out to a club. I drink way too much. OM and I get separated from group and he tells me I'm the perfect girl. He recounts in detail our first meeting. But I tell him I can't do anything about this and that he doesn't know anything about me. 

It's my turn to get sick. I puke. I hear OM and 2 of his friends arguing over what to do with me. They take me back to OM's. I have blacked out at this point. 

Friday morning, I wake up in OM's bed. I flip out but calm down once I realize that I haven't been violated or anything like that. OM enters room and tries to comfort me, since I feel terrible physically and emotionally for being there, even though nothing happened. And I wish at this point I could recall why or how it began but I can't. We had sex. 

I couldn't tell if it was from being hungover or from what I did but I felt extremely nauseous. OM was going to visit his GF that afternoon. He suggested that me and another US colleague (female) stay at his apt, since it was significantly nicer than our current lodging. He assured me that he was not going to be around that afternoon when we dropped off our luggage. 

Friday afternoon he is still there. He is on the phone and shut in his room, so my colleague and I hang out with one of his friends that is there and then we leave. 

Friday evening I return to his place with more of my colleagues. We enter the apt and he is there on the couch, looking sad, with all the lights off. I am distraught. He insists we should still stay there. I insist we leave and my colleague (unknowing of what's happened) urges me to stay there. She's in love with his place. One of his friends drops by and as a group we hang out at his apt. and drink. Slowly my colleagues leave, my new roommate colleague decides to pass out on a nearby couch. I try to move her to the bedroom, so that way the 2 of us can share the bed but she refuses to get up. Only OM , his friend, and I are left awake. 

6am on Saturday we finally realize that we've stayed up all night talking. His friend leaves. OM and I talk. I realize here that his GF had broken up with him earlier that day. While I am unsure of how much he disclosed, he wasn't answering he calls and she could sense that when he did answer that he was distant. So she dumped him. I told him that he had to get her back or at least realize that whatever he thinks exists between us does not. None of it is real. I talk about how much I love Joe and I can't lose him. And he tells me not to worry because he will go back to his GF and get her back. He then tells me that he will never forget me and always remember me, that he's never cheated before, and he doesn't know why he did with me, but that his attraction was instant. I just say that this can't happen anymore. He kisses me on the forehead and I think it's done but then he won't let go of me again. My willpower is crumbling, just from a hug. We have sex again. Then I get up and leave. 

OM leaves to get his GF back. I fly home.

OK, that wasn't short at all.

Writing this I realized that as much as I like to think I resisted him, I did continue to hang out with this person. Obviously, I have to establish more clear-cut boundaries. The odd thing for me is that I have always gotten along very well with guys and have a lot of close guy friends without any attraction on my part. If in the past a male friend would proclaim his affection for me beyond the platonic, I would express my loyalty to my husband and that would be the end of it. We'd stay friends. Boundaries had always been respected before. I don't know why this time I didn't even try to enforce them. Why was this the time I let my husband down?

Can I also just say that recounting this is very hard. I feel by just thinking back on it that I am cheating again.


----------



## Beowulf

Boy did you fall for the PUA game hard. He did everything textbook right up to isolating you from the rest of the group at the club. As sick as this may sound I have to hand it to him. You got gamed girl. You aren't anything special to him! Go do a Google search on PUA methods. He followed the script to the letter and got you in the sack. I'm sorry you fell for this but you need to strengthen your boundaries or this will happen again.

Edit: Leslie, look back at how he manipulated you and your actions. Hell he even manipulated your friends. Moping on the couch. Wow. He even used your birthday to play his game. If you aren't extremely pissed off at him after you reread what you wrote he did I don't have much hope for you. This guy is a player. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't gone to a PUA seminar or two. You're just another plate in his plate spinning exercises. I feel bad for his GF because she is being taken for a longer ride than you were.


----------



## par4

You should not have told your husband. This was not worth your marriage
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TDSC60

Beowulf said:


> Boy did you fall for the PUA game hard. He did everything textbook right up to isolating you from the rest of the group at the club. As sick as this may sound I have to hand it to him. You got gamed girl. You aren't anything special to him! Go do a Google search on PUA methods. He followed the script to the letter and got you in the sack. I'm sorry you fell for this but you need to strengthen your boundaries or this will happen again.
> 
> Edit: Leslie, look back at how he manipulated you and your actions. Hell he even manipulated your friends. Moping on the couch. Wow. He even used your birthday to play his game. If you aren't extremely pissed off at him after you reread what you wrote he did I don't have much hope for you. This guy is a player. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't gone to a PUA seminar or two. You're just another plate in his plate spinning exercises. I feel bad for his GF because she is being taken for a longer ride than you were.


:iagree:

You were played like a cheap banjo. What bothers me is that you say you can not remember much of the first time you had sex with this man. Not only were you played - you may have been drugged.

And you don't regret this connection. Take off the blinders girl. there was nothing romantic or mysterious about this.


----------



## Beowulf

par4 said:


> You should not have told your husband. This was not worth your marriage
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And when the PUA's GF contacts the husband and outs her she really would have been done. You honestly have no concept of what a relationship is. Go away.


----------



## Beowulf

TDSC60 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> You were played like a cheap banjo. What bothers me is that you say you can not remember much of the first time you had sex with this man. Not only were you played - you may have been drugged.
> 
> And you don't regret this connection. Take off the blinders girl. there was nothing romantic or mysterious about this.


Unfortunately she might have been drugged. Foreign country he probably figured what the hell.


----------



## par4

Beowulf said:


> And when the PUA's GF contacts the husband and outs her she really would have been done. You honestly have no concept of what a relationship is. Go away.


No we all make mistakes in life and sin. This was not a relationship it was a mistake for which she should not be jailed for the rest of her life
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp

Amazing. How would you feel if you read such letter from your husband with him telling another woman how much he loves you after having sex with her and then later immediately having sex with her again?

Sorry but I am sure your husband must be saying to himself that you never loved him in the first place or simply have no idea what love is. Really telling this slime bag how much much you love your husband and then immediately start having sex with him a second time is really too much. You would not want your husband to act this way so why did you? Surely you knew that would severely damage your relationship with your husband. What did you expect to happen? I am glad that you are considering individual counseling because you really need to know why you would consciously hurt a spouse in such a severe way who loves you. Something is terribly wrong here. Good luck.


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## bryanp

Par 4 - Does honesty and respect mean absolutely nothing to you? Yes we make mistakes but we also admit our mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Not telling a husband that you cheated continues the disrespect and humiliation toward the husband. A marriage consists of two people and they have the right to know if a spouse has betrayed them. For you not to see or understand this indicates that you have a broken moral compass. Honesty clearly is not an important value to you.


----------



## Beowulf

bryanp said:


> Par 4 - Does honesty and respect mean absolutely nothing to you? Yes we make mistakes but we also admit our mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Not telling a husband that you cheated continues the disrespect and humiliation toward the husband. A marriage consists of two people and they have the right to know if a spouse has betrayed them. For you not to see or understand this indicates that you have a broken moral compass. Honesty clearly is not an important value to you.


Maybe Par 4 has a handicap. Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.


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## par4

bryanp said:


> Par 4 - Does honesty and respect mean absolutely nothing to you? Yes we make mistakes but we also admit our mistakes and hopefully learn from them. Not telling a husband that you cheated continues the disrespect and humiliation toward the husband. A marriage consists of two people and they have the right to know if a spouse has betrayed them. For you not to see or understand this indicates that you have a broken moral compass. Honesty clearly is not an important value to you.


They do, but her original post was to ask for advice. And given the limited information at the beginning of the post and additional post my opinion is that it would be better to keep this situation to herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

par4 said:


> No we all make mistakes in life and sin. This was not a relationship it was a mistake for which she should not be jailed for the rest of her life
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 It's not a marriage if you aren't honest with each other. It's a convenience.


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## LeslieH

I don't think I was played. I was a willing participant. I found all of his lines pretty cheesy and almost comical at the time, but I still cheated. PUA or not, it doesn't matter in the bigger scheme of things. I did a terrible thing.

Also, I should say that this did not feel romantic at all to me. I never felt at any time that this was something more than what it was. This probably makes all of what I've done seem that much worse. But that is what I'm trying to figure out, why I did this.


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## Initfortheduration

If you were in California the first time would have been chargeable as rape. You were played by him. The second time may be because of what happened when you were drunk. You didn't want to perceive yourself as being loose, so when it came up again, you may have felt pressure to assign more emotion to it then there actually was. Plain and simple you didn't want to think of yourself as just rutting like an animal when you were drunk. You may have thought if you felt something for him, it would be more easily to accept. No one knows but you. I am not excusing what you did, just giving you a possible reason for why you did it the second time. It also comes down to how you felt while you were doing it with him, and of course how you felt afterwards. How we perceive ourselves (or want to) can make us do really stupid things. Did you tell your husband the whole story?


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## bandit.45

Now you just have to get to the bottom of why. In reading your story I can't help but think that you set out to sabotage your marriage. I don't think your marriage is as good and happy as you have made out. Or, you have spent years making yourself believe you have been happy when deep down under the surface you have been anything but. 

How long do spend away from your husband for work purposes? Do you go away often? And if I may ask, what are yours and your husband's ages?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LeslieH

My husband and I have not talked since I told him I cheated. 

My husband travels pretty frequently for work. I travel for work and pleasure pretty frequently. The longest we've been separated for recently is about 2-3 weeks max. We try to travel together when we can. He was actually supposed to go with me on the trip but decided not to. 

He is 34, I am 30.


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## bryanp

This will make it ever more difficult for the husband. He probably will be beating himself up saying to himself if only I had gone on the trip this never would have happened. I really feel sorry for him.

Is it possible down deep you were angry with your husband for not going on this trip and this cheating was a form of payback?


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## warlock07

He showed you a little attention when you were lonely on your birthday and you relented so easily..Was there any resentment from your side that your husband could not make it to the trip?


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## LeslieH

I don't think so. There have been bigger trips I have taken where his presence would have meant more (weddings, family events). I like to think I wouldn't do this purely out of vengeance, but I'm not sure.


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## LeslieH

Sorry,I think I need to take a break of this forum. I feel like I am going through so many emotions on this and I'd rather experience these with my husband. I just really hope he will give me another chance.


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## bandit.45

Now we're getting somewhere. Resentment tends to build slowly. All the past times hubby was not with you probably hurt you more than you are willing to admit. This last time, your birthday, was the straw that broke the camels back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

LeslieH said:


> Felt instant *spark for OM*, even though I couldn't point to why


Instant attraction or sexual chemistry towards the OM.



> Towards the end of the night we kiss. I played it off as just *a drunk thing*, not a big deal


A make out kiss is an extremely powerful inducement towards sex. Furthermore, the consumption of alcohol helps lower inhibitions and facilitates doing things that normally a person would not do while sober.



> Wednesday he invites me over for dinner. I go over... then we were kissing again.


More make out kissing. Your barriers are continuing to weaken.



> And I wish at this point I could recall why or how it began but I can't. We had sex.


Third time is the charm. The alcohol and the kissing have finally led to the inevitable, sex.



> He kisses me on the forehead and I think it's done but then he won't let go of me again. My willpower is crumbling, just from a hug. We have sex again


Fourth and final encounter, your resistance to his sexual advances are completely gone. If your job required you to continue staying more time in that country, it would have been a safe bet that you would have fallen in love with the OM.

You are a perfect case book example of how crossing marital boundaries can seduce a happily married woman to have sex with a man who is not her husband. An attractive man (sexual chemistry) and alcohol abuse are always a dangerous combination for a married woman so far from home and husband.

Leslie, if you want a chance to save your marriage, you will have to either quit your job or be assigned to a different department where no out of town travel is required. Why? Because your husband will be under excruciating agony every time you travel out of town and wondering if the set of circumstances that set the stage for you to break marital boundaries, will present themselves once more.

Of course there are more things that you'll need to improve your chances that your husband will give you a second chance but I'll let you think about what I said and for other members to give their input as well.


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## bandit.45

And for what its worth, there is nothing normal about a husband and wife going off on frequent long trips without ne another, and to foreign countries? Give me a break! You were an affair waiting to happen! If you can't see how you subconsciously (or conscously) set this whole situation up for yourself, you are seriously delusional.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri

One last thing Leslie, get alcohol abuse counseling ASAP. If your drinking continues, it will destroy your life.


----------



## Traggy

Wow, this really hits home. Thank you for telling me your story on how this happened through your eyes.


----------



## Shaggy

Leslie, you are a naive fool who got played by this guy. He just kept isolating you, talking you up, and escalating the physical contact, and you kept going back for more.

From your tone of writing, I believe you think of yourself as smart and clever, but you arent at all. I wonder how many other stupid women he's pulled this on, you don't sound like his first. The stay at my place was particularly clever of him, and stupid of you. There was no way he was going away once he knew he was going to have you there again sleep with. it was just too easy for him. He likely didn't break up with the GF at all, he just told her he couldn't go that weekend,since he was planning on nailing you again.

Seriously get checked for STDs and in a few months HIV because this guy does this regularly. Just another american chick who thought she coud play with fire. Your husband has lost trust in you,I also think he will loose any respect for your judgement as well. At least you know why you cheated- because you were stupid enough to keep going backlot his guy as he reeled you in.

I don't think your husband will ever trust you to travel away again. I know I wouldn't. So that's a loss you will suffer as a consequence if your husband gives you a second chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Complexity

Wow was the other man a snake or what. He knew exactly what he was doing and made you fall for it completely. And you actually believed the BS that he didn't cheat on his girlfriend before?

What struck me however was that you had sex with him twice in a sober state. After the first time you had time to reflect on you've done but once again you slept with him. If I was your husband, I couldn't understand how this guy that you've known for what? a couple of days? could wipe out everything he'd done for you, all the years, everything you went through together and this wasn't a drunken romp, this was a concious decision to twice sleep with a man you barely know even though you're happily married to a man who by your own admission is everything you could ever want.


I'm not saying all of this to guilt trip you, I just sense that you have a very lax attitude towards fidelity. You blew off the first kiss as a drunken "mistake" where typically you should've been distraught that anything physical happened with another man, secondly you remained buddies with him even though the very sight of him should've reviled you. Then you repeatedly placed yourself in situations where things of an intimate nature could've happened. I'm not trying to question your morals but sex is a pretty significant thing. To give it to another man you barely know _so easily_ while you're married signals that you do indeed have serious boundary issues. Your husband is made to feel completely worthless by all of this.


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## code7600

I was also struck by the sex, twice, in a sober state. I was tempted while on long business trips. One thing conspicuously missing from the story - when did you talk with your husband? Was there no daily check-in call ? Talking while distant could help you stay connected and set boundaries. Not communicating can be the death of feelings.


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## bandit.45

I think the kissing and petting in the days leading up to the sex are just as bad as the sex itself. Leslie was engaging in an affair right from the very first kiss. She was attracted to this man and was giving affection as well as recieving. 

This was no one-way seduction.

She knew where this would lead, and I believe she enjoyed being caught up in the excitement of it all. I also have a hard time believing she felt no romantic feelings for the other man while engaging in all this.

This whole story is right out of a Harlequin romance novel. 

I applaud Leslie for admitting her responsibility in all this, but she needs to lay out the full truth of her motivations and intentions. I think what we have here is a woman who loves her husband deeply, but who desires passion and romance. I don't believe she was getting enough of that from her marriage, and on the week of her birthday, alone in another country, that is when she was needing these things the most.


----------



## Shaggy

Leslie, 

Please understand that we are not trying to dump on you. Think of us more as part of your inner dialogue, and we are trying to get you to simply be honest with yourself. This is an important step for you, so that you cn then be honest with hom.

You don't want to admit you got played because I think your afraid of looking even worse than you do. The guy however did play you and played you so well that at each step he sort of got you to willingly choose it. And that's no doubt part of the conflict you feel inside because you are either so angry you let yourself be manipulated like that, or you are in denial that it happened.

The reality is that you were presented by him with choices all along the way, and each time he set up a choice it further isolated you from your life and safety net, a further led you into cheating.

This doesn't mean that cheating wasn't you fault or choice, it was. But it does show you how it happened and he you used you agsinst you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration

LeslieH said:


> I don't think I was played. I was a willing participant. I found all of his lines pretty cheesy and almost comical at the time, but I still cheated. PUA or not, it doesn't matter in the bigger scheme of things. I did a terrible thing.
> 
> Also, I should say that this did not feel romantic at all to me. I never felt at any time that this was something more than what it was. This probably makes all of what I've done seem that much worse. But that is what I'm trying to figure out, why I did this.


You're being honest. That's the basis for everything.


----------



## Entropy3000

LeslieH said:


> I'm going to share what happened, in hopes that you can all help me figure out why I decided to act selfishly and throw away the best relationship I have ever had, also my best friend.
> 
> What Happened (short story):
> 
> I'm not sure what info is relevant. So here is the short of it.
> Was working in a country I hated.
> 
> 
> Without your husband. -- Isolation. Need to be especially watchful of oneself as your hubby was not there to c0ckblock.
> 
> Met OM on a Thursday at the hospital I was working at.
> OM is also a foreigner.
> Felt instant spark for OM, even though I couldn't point to why
> 
> Danger flag. No problem this happens to all of us. You should have boundaries for this. This was not a man to be alone with or to be drinking heavily around
> 
> Had lunch with OM and get-to-know-you-banter
> 
> You had a lunch date with a guy you felt attracted to. Your husband is thousands of miles away. This may be usual behavior for you. I suggest you make a better boundary around this.
> 
> OM goes to local metropolis on weekends to visit GF
> OM did not visit GF that weekend.
> 
> Right, he knew he had a shot at you. He could see your interest in him.
> 
> I am not in town that weekend.
> Monday was my 30th birthday.
> 
> Some folks find 30 a challenge. They get lonely. Too bad your hubby was not there.
> What a perfect opportunity for this guy to ruin a marriage.
> 
> Towards the end of the night we kiss. I played it off as just a drunk thing, not a big deal.
> 
> WTF!? You had another date with this guy? This time an intimate evening. You decided it was safe to drink heavily with him? Another bad choice indeed. PUA only works on those with inadequate boundaries. This was probably in unfaithful territoy before the kiss but definitely after. Alcohol is not an excuse. You do not go out on a date with a person you are attracted too and drink heavily and then blame actions on drinking. I have no doubt this was a romantic interlude for you. A kiss is very intimate. From what I have read on this there are indeed wives who feel that kissing is ok. No big deal. They allow themselves this and do not consider it cheating. He knew he had the green light. This kissed sealed the deal and the reast was just playing out the seduction. You should notnhave been in this situation but you had a chance to stop at this fling.
> 
> Tuesday, I avoided him till the evening. He accompanied me on a walk and we just talk.
> 
> Wow, you should have just told him you were wrong and that for the rest of your trip you could not see him again. But the walk deepend the connection with you. These are a series of choices, of boundaries stripped away. Yes this is PUA, but you chose to continue along.
> 
> 
> Wednesday he invites me over for dinner. I go over.
> 
> HUH!? You go on a third date with this guy who you shared a kiss with? You go to his place? The kiss was cheating to me. But to go to a mans home / apartment even if nothing happens is unfaithful to me. Would your husband be ok with this? This guy knew he had you because he saw you were already willing to betray your husband. This was just another sequence of Isolation / Escalation. You were a willing partner in this seduction. This was choice after choice and you couldn have stopped if you wanted to.
> 
> Everything is fine and platonic seeming till he gives me a present.
> 
> There was nothing platonic about this relationship at this point. Of course he gave you a gift. Duh!
> 
> I am shocked and skeptical of the gift but gave him a hug. He continued to hold me and then we were kissing again.
> 
> OMG, the gift did what it was supposed to do. Provide a reason for affection that could be moved onto getting you to bed.
> 
> When he tried to remove some of my clothing, I left.
> 
> At last. A boundary!!!!!
> 
> He followed me and I told him that what we were doing was wrong. And why he wasn't feeling guilty or that anything was wrong with this. His response was that this felt different to him and that it felt good, and what's wrong with doing something that felt good.
> 
> So him explaining that he was a real sleaze and was using you to feel good. Sweet! But he spun it that this was different. That is way important in seducing a woman. This is classic romance novel, fling in a foreign country with a handsoem stranger. You know ... female porn. The seduction continues with. The dance. "If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."
> 
> Thursday, a group of us goes out to a club. I drink way too much.
> 
> Well at least a group and not a lone date. Gee whiz you party a lot on these trips. You go to a club. Wow, you know this pales in what you have been doing but this is risky on its own. One drinks a lot and dances closely with strangers on holiday many whom want some strange. Then you drink too much!! Hokey smokes!!
> 
> OM and I get separated from group and he tells me I'm the perfect girl. He recounts in detail our first meeting. But I tell him I can't do anything about this and that he doesn't know anything about me.
> 
> So you get isolated again! Sigh. But really you allowed this. he probably had someone helping along. A wingman.
> 
> It's my turn to get sick. I puke. I hear OM and 2 of his friends arguing over what to do with me. They take me back to OM's. I have blacked out at this point.
> 
> What were they arguing about? Who got to have you? Whether it was right to bring you back to his place? You blacked out. OMG ... WTH. More bad choices.
> 
> Friday morning, I wake up in OM's bed. I flip out but calm down once I realize that I haven't been violated or anything like that. OM enters room and tries to comfort me, since I feel terrible physically and emotionally for being there, even though nothing happened. And I wish at this point I could recall why or how it began but I can't. We had sex.
> 
> There you go. You were ripe for the taking. He is a sleaze though you think he is a great guy. he found a lonely married woman on a trip and just had to add her to his belt of easy conquests. You donlt regret this fling. I am sure you had a blast. This is many women's fantasy fling. Many husbands nightmare. But women are intellligent and can make theior own choices. Does your hsuband trust you completely? I guess he would. Why not. No reason not to. All people are capable of making the wrong choice but this was a long series of bad choices becauase there were no real boundaries in place. If their were then it was one conscious bad choice after another.
> 
> I couldn't tell if it was from being hungover or from what I did but I felt extremely nauseous.
> 
> 
> Dang, hopefully not morning sickness. You should have felt a little sick from the guilt anyway. I suppose that is better than an afterglow of love for the OM.
> 
> OM was going to visit his GF that afternoon. He suggested that me and another US colleague (female) stay at his apt, since it was significantly nicer than our current lodging. He assured me that he was not going to be around that afternoon when we dropped off our luggage.
> 
> Wow. How nice of him to keep you on ice while he went to bang his GF. Maybe he was hoping for a threesome when he got back.
> 
> Friday afternoon he is still there. He is on the phone and shut in his room, so my colleague and I hang out with one of his friends that is there and then we leave.
> 
> Friday evening I return to his place with more of my colleagues.
> 
> You go back to his place again. I have lost count. He has you on a string now.
> 
> 
> We enter the apt and he is there on the couch, looking sad, with all the lights off. I am distraught. He insists we should still stay there. I insist we leave and my colleague (unknowing of what's happened) urges me to stay there.
> 
> So your colleague wants her married friend to stay with this man in his apartment. Wow.
> 
> 
> She's in love with his place. One of his friends drops by and as a group we hang out at his apt. and drink.
> 
> He is now sharing the women he has brought to the group.
> 
> Slowly my colleagues leave, my new roommate colleague decides to pass out on a nearby couch.
> 
> More passing out with men. Amazing. Party on.
> 
> I try to move her to the bedroom, so that way the 2 of us can share the bed but she refuses to get up.
> 
> He would have liked that as he and maybe a friend would have eventually joined you ... both.
> 
> 
> Only OM , his friend, and I are left awake.
> 
> 6am on Saturday we finally realize that we've stayed up all night talking. His friend leaves. OM and I talk. I realize here that his GF had broken up with him earlier that day. While I am unsure of how much he disclosed, he wasn't answering he calls and she could sense that when he did answer that he was distant. So she dumped him. I told him that he had to get her back or at least realize that whatever he thinks exists between us does not. None of it is real. I talk about how much I love Joe and I can't lose him. And he tells me not to worry because he will go back to his GF and get her back.
> 
> He does this stuff. It is not big deal.
> 
> He then tells me that he will never forget me and always remember me, that he's never cheated before, and he doesn't know why he did with me, but that his attraction was instant.
> 
> He has done this before. He had it all planned out in a PUA fashion. he told you what you wante to hear which was that your were special. You bought it. He had a GF but he was not married like you. Maybe he had a GF. maybe it was just part of the seduction. You know pre-selection.
> 
> I just say that this can't happen anymore. He kisses me on the forehead and I think it's done but then he won't let go of me again. My willpower is crumbling, just from a hug. We have sex again. Then I get up and leave.
> 
> Holy crapolla!! You are a rock.
> 
> OM leaves to get his GF back. I fly home.
> 
> OK, that wasn't short at all.
> 
> Writing this I realized that as much as I like to think I resisted him, I did continue to hang out with this person. *Obviously, I have to establish more clear-cut boundaries. The odd thing for me is that I have always gotten along very well with guys and have a lot of close guy friends without any attraction on my part.* If in the past a male friend would proclaim his affection for me beyond the platonic, I would express my loyalty to my husband and that would be the end of it. We'd stay friends. Boundaries had always been respected before. I don't know why this time I didn't even try to enforce them. Why was this the time I let my husband down?
> 
> Can I also just say that recounting this is very hard. I feel by just thinking back on it that I am cheating again.


PUA only works if one has poor boundaries. You made some very bad choices leading into this. Everyone is vulnerable under the right circumstances. So past boundaries may have been fine for then. The thing is that I lost track of the number of bad choices you made. You have too.
You cannot play just the tip with this stuff and not get burned.

Instigation, Isolation and Escalation.

Drinking too much with other men while being isolated in another country from your husband. I am not sure if you have kissed this way before while married. Kissing is a big deal.

I wonder how many women have your exact escapade as their romantic fantasy?

I suggest you work on those boundaries and re-evaluate your other male relationships. It will be so much easier now to just jump to kissing again. Do you always drink so much? I would think IF your husband takes you back you would need to change jobs and stop this travelling without him. You proved you are way too vulnerable for this any more. IMO. Good luck.


----------



## Entropy3000

> Can I also just say that recounting this is very hard. I feel by just thinking back on it that I am cheating again.


I can relate to this. I only had an EA. Nothing like this, but it was a betrayal of its own scope. My boundaries were not sufficent.

But I can sympathize with you on this. My situation is long in the past now. Recounting any specific feelings during that time is not something I ever do. It would be reliving the betrayal. I have done enough reflection on all of that and it just opens the wound needlessly. You are in the early stages and it is painful but layer upon layer you do need to look at the series of choices you made.

You had me at you were attracted to this guy and started to meet with him. This was the real betrayal. The real bad chocie. It set in motion all the rest. While in theory you could have made any number of decisions to limit the destruction the way you first engaged this affair / fling was the problem. The rest is just playing out the level of the betrayal. Folks who think having initmate meetings with the opposite sex and kissing is harmless and no bug deal amaze me.

It is hard to beleive that this would have remained a secret. Maybe it would have. But you would eventually contact this giuy even though you think you would not. Plus you involved your colleagues.

On the subject of male friends. Well this was very diiferent in many ways/. The romantic isoaltion for one. You had the feeling of being in a bubble of romance. You would not see this guy again. When we interact with others in the real world we have a tad moe accountability as our choices will be longer lasting. It is much easier to have a fling with a handsome stranger and feel you can compartmentalize it.


----------



## Entropy3000

par4 said:


> No we all make mistakes in life and sin. This was not a relationship it was a mistake for which she should not be jailed for the rest of her life
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This was no mistake. This was a long series of chocies. We don't get to do what ever we feel and go "oh well". What we do has consequences. I know being accoutnable is not trendy these days.

She willfully went along with each and every step. I see no mistakes here. She did not stub her toe. She made many choices of being unfaithful.


----------



## Entropy3000

bandit.45 said:


> I think the kissing and petting in the days leading up to the sex are just as bad as the sex itself. Leslie was engaging in an affair right from the very first kiss. She was attracted to this man and was giving affection as well as recieving.
> 
> This was no one-way seduction.
> 
> She knew where this would lead, and I believe she enjoyed being caught up in the excitement of it all. I also have a hard time believing she felt no romantic feelings for the other man while engaging in all this.
> 
> This whole story is right out of a Harlequin romance novel.
> 
> I applaud Leslie for admitting her responsibility in all this, but she needs to lay out the full truth of her motivations and intentions. I think what we have here is a woman who loves her husband deeply, but who desires passion and romance. I don't believe she was getting enough of that from her marriage, and on the week of her birthday, alone in another country, that is when she was needing these things the most.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

It was her kryptonite. The right circumstances for this to happen and she went along with no real resistance. Her biggest issue is that she really did not regret it. That is an honest thing. I am not judging. She felt entitled to this. I do not think this is an rare feeling. 

The birthday underscored that she would be 30. For some women this is a big deal. It turned out to be more of a right of passage into being a mature woman he felt she could handle things because it felt so right. She indulged herself. She knew what she was doing. 

While this does read like a romance novel it is something some women would like to be able to do. Have a loving husband and a lover on the the side like this. It is just like the movie ... The Other Man.


----------



## bandit.45

Yep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NextTimeAround

****6am on Saturday we finally realize that we've stayed up all night talking. His friend leaves. OM and I talk.* I realize here that his GF had broken up with him earlier that day.*****

Do you really believe that he has a gf? I don't. Or else the term is used rather loosely here.

Leslie, it's good you told your husband because this seems like the kind of guy who will find a way to let your husband know. Men can be indiscreet and since it doesn't sound like he has too serious of a partner of his own, he has nothing to lose.

As I have mentioned before, when my bf reconnected with someone he had dated earlier, she was all over his FB wall. If I had been watching it in real time, I would have been able to see a problem developing.


----------



## LeslieH

I've always thought that romance novels were rubbish, so it's painful to think that my cheating was a classic story line for one. I thought I was too evolved for things like that, apparently not. Sigh.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when most of you pick up a lady, getting into her pants is never a goal. I really can't get mad or feel used by this situation or person. So while I appreciate everyone giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I was duped into sleeping with him, just don't. It's not convincing.


----------



## bandit.45

LeslieH said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when most of you pick up a lady, getting into her pants *is never a goal*. I really can't get mad or feel used by this situation or person. So while I appreciate everyone giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I was duped into sleeping with him, just don't. It's not convincing.


This must be a typo.

Speaking as a guy, it is _always_ our goal.


----------



## Entropy3000

LeslieH said:


> I've always thought that romance novels were rubbish, so it's painful to think that my cheating was a classic story line for one. I thought I was too evolved for things like that, apparently not. Sigh.
> 
> I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when most of you pick up a lady, getting into her pants is never a goal. I really can't get mad or feel used by this situation or person. So while I appreciate everyone giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I was duped into sleeping with him, just don't. It's not convincing.


In the scenario you speak ( pickup a lady ) it is definitely the goal. It is a pickup to hookup. Assume that as a married woman you should not trust any man in this way again. You should assume that any man trying to isolate themselves with you wants in your pants. They do. Assume they want you backwards, forwards, upside down and twice on Sunday. Then you will have the right information for making decisions. You should also assume a man like this in these circumstances is likely to spike your drink. 

Those that think that they are too evolved, too smart, have too much character or above all of this are foolish and are setting themselves up for failure. I was this way.

But whether there is a slim chance a guy would not take advantage why would anyone risk this? That is why I see the unfaithful act as the beginning spending time alone dating him. You also knew you were attracted to him. So you were a willing partner. He knew this. We do not put one bullet in the chamber, spin it and pull the trigger. We don't take chances with important things.


----------



## TDSC60

LeslieH said:


> I've always thought that romance novels were rubbish, so it's painful to think that my cheating was a classic story line for one. I thought I was too evolved for things like that, apparently not. Sigh.
> 
> I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when most of you pick up a lady, getting into her pants is never a goal. I really can't get mad or feel used by this situation or person. So while I appreciate everyone giving me the benefit of the doubt, that I was duped into sleeping with him, just don't. It's not convincing.


OK. So what you are saying is that from the first time you met and talked with this guy, you knew his goal was to get into your pants and YOUR goal was to get him in bed. It was your intention to have sex with the guy from the start. To hell with your marriage and to hell with your husband and how it would destroy him. There was no though given to the consequences of what you were doing. 

Bottom line is that you set out to have sex with him. Kept going until it happened - twice - and still do not regret what you did (connection).

Is this what you are saying?


----------



## HurtinginTN

LeslieH said:


> I'm sorry, I didn't realize that when most of you pick up a lady, getting into her pants is never a goal.


Leslie, I can only see two possible reasons to "pick up a lady". One is to start moving toward a long-term relationship. Some may pick up a lady in a bar for that purpose. You were in a foreign country and married. He knew that was not an option.

The other reason is exactly to get into her pants. That was his goal and he accomplished it. You were well played.


----------



## Entropy3000

So what is the motivation for married woman isolated from her husband to get picked up? To put herself in intimate situations in a foreign land with a man you did not know but were very attracted to. You helped him out by continually getting drunk. You went to his place multiple times. You were in his bed.

What were your motives? We now know your actions.

Be honest with yourself.


----------



## Complexity

bandit.45 said:


> This must be a typo.
> 
> Speaking as a guy, it is _always_ our goal.


:iagree:

But there is an unspoken rule amongst us men. Married chicks are off limits. Period. Those who break this rule are the lowest of the low in my opinion. 

Either the other man was a scumbag who didn't follow such a convention or the OP didn't make it abundantly clear that she's married woman and for him to p!ss off


----------



## warlock07

Considering what you did, this is the best for both of you whatever the outcome might be. Op is more at fault since she was the one that was married. There are a lot of men that look for easy pu$$y, married or not.

And did you not feel one bit of guilt when he talked about going and meeting his gf after having sex with you? You still f*cked him after that, didn't you?


----------



## Entropy3000

Complexity said:


> :iagree:
> 
> But there is an unspoken rule amongst us men. Married chicks are off limits. Period. Those who break this rule are the lowest of the low in my opinion.
> 
> Either the other man was a scumbag who didn't follow such a convention or the OP didn't make it abundantly clear that she's married woman and for him to p!ss off


Some men target married women specifically. They see them as prize. They get off on being able to seduce these women knowing they have a husband who has presumably promised to be hers forever. Basically a bigger conquest. She was more invested in him because of what she was giving up. She was willing to throw it all away just for a few moments with him. Also presumably these women have not been sleeping around already. So they are all that much more blown away by the situation. Better than usual sex for both. So ego and sex.

Is he a sleaze? Oh yeah.


----------



## Complexity

Entropy3000 said:


> Some men target married women specifically. They see them as prize. They get off on being able to seduce these women knowing they have a husband who has presumably promised to be hers forever. Basically a bigger conquest. She was more invested in him because of what she was giving up. She was willing to throw it all away just for a few moments with him. Also presumably these women have not been sleeping around already. So they are all that much more blown away by the situation. So better than usual sex for both. So ego and sex.
> 
> Is he a sleaze? Oh yeah.


She even called his pick up lines cheesy and comical. Oh and did I forget to mention, he bought her gifts too! really?!? . I've observed men like these, you're completely right, absolute sleaze bags. 
It makes me shudder to think that men like him are capable of wiping us out completely with our women.

I can only speculate but I think she did this because she wasn't getting enough attention which I can completely sympathise with. Us men usually don't understand how much attention women actually need, it's baffling sometimes. But surely she should've understood the disparity in pain with having an affair and with forgetting to mention happy birthday. 

Presumably her husband missed her as much as she missed him, the difference however was that he loved her _much more_ which is why he honoured and respected her by not cheating.


----------



## Shaggy

And has your husband returned yet?

What is your next step, have you started contacting personal therapists to begin working on you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Shaggy said:


> And has your husband returned yet?
> 
> What is your next step, have you started contacting personal therapists to begin working on you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Right. You already realize you have to work on boundaries so it is time to work on yourself. Professional help is indeed called for.


----------



## TDSC60

OMG. It just hit me. If hubby stays with her he can look forward to buying a present each year around her Bday that says " Happy anniversary of the day you cheated on me and f*cked OM."

Talk about a trigger.


----------



## Entropy3000

TDSC60 said:


> OMG. It just hit me. If hubby stays with her he can look forward to buying a present each year around her Bday that says " Happy anniversary of the day you cheated on me and f*cked OM."
> 
> Talk about a trigger.


Maybe so but she did the right thing by telling him.

He is already blaming himself for not making the trip I would think.

One day at a time now.


----------



## Shaggy

I'm not sure he will be back. He's lost a lot of respect and all trust for her. He may be doing the divorce leg work.

He certainly will never ever trust her to travel again. 


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LeslieH

Co-counseling session set up for Monday. Haven't talked since I told him, texts and emails only.


----------



## Shaggy

Have you considered making a list of what you are now changing on your own as consequences?

1. no more travel alone. none. ever.


----------



## Shaggy

also the OM may someday contact you. What will you do when he does? Write that down as #2.


----------



## LeslieH

Shaggy said:


> Have you considered making a list of what you are now changing on your own as consequences?
> 
> 1. no more travel alone. none. ever.


Unrealistic and highly implausible. I am thinking about what I need to change, but that will only be one of them if he requests it...which he probably never would. We both travel.

I am planning to resign from the line of research that sent me overseas. I will probably avoid travel to that part of the world in general unless he is with me, but never travelling alone is not really an option for us.


While I don't have any addiction issues with alcohol, I will offer to give it up, since I clearly make bad decisions when it's around.


----------



## Eli-Zor

If you and your husband get though this I do suggest you both review your choice of lifestyle . For a couple to be intimate and create a lasting marriage there is a need for you to be together and have a couple of hours a day to talk, date , go for walks etc.

You made the right decision to tell your husband what happened , however not knowing the content of mails and text messages he is sending you, I can't see how he is dealing with the news. Perhaps he may need some guidance on how to deal with the situation . Your here on TAM do you know if he is seeking similar advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration

Keep expectations low for you MC initially. Your counselor will want to talk to you both individually then together. Remember, no justifying, he's gonna dish out a lot of pain. Just realize, if he didn't love you as much as he does, he wouldn't be going through this for you.


----------



## Beowulf

LeslieH said:


> Unrealistic and highly implausible. I am thinking about what I need to change, but that will only be one of them if he requests it...which he probably never would. We both travel.
> 
> I am planning to resign from the line of research that sent me overseas. I will probably avoid travel to that part of the world in general unless he is with me, but never travelling alone is not really an option for us.
> 
> 
> While I don't have any addiction issues with alcohol, I will offer to give it up, since I clearly make bad decisions when it's around.


Leslie,

I just want to say that you are very brave and should be commended for telling your husband and taking responsibility for your bad decisions. I know you have been hammered a bit here on TAM but you haven't quit and you've kept coming back. That in and of itself bodes well for you in the future. The harsh and sometimes pointed responses you are receiving here will help you to deal with the feelings you are going to confront from your husband. Regardless of what is said here, don't give up and don't stop posting. Every response will help you in the long run even if you don't think so now. Good luck.


----------



## Shaggy

LeslieH said:


> Unrealistic and highly implausible. I am thinking about what I need to change, but that will only be one of them if he requests it...which he probably never would. We both travel.
> 
> I am planning to resign from the line of research that sent me overseas. I will probably avoid travel to that part of the world in general unless he is with me, but never travelling alone is not really an option for us.
> .


Then if he does stay around, expect him to trigger anytime you are away. To the point of being unable to function when you are gone, and unable to believe "nothing" new happened when you were gone.

You're very focused on the cheating choices you made - this is important, BUT you need to understand what he is feeling inside. His faith in himself is shattered. He is beating himself up for both trusting you, and also for not being enough of a husband that could keep you from cheating. In a word - he is feeling worthless. 

The cheating is more an act of absolute rejection, humiliation, emotional attack, and betrayal as it is a physical coupling by you. You chose another man over him. You willing gave away something only he had a right to. To him, this means he wasn't good enough, and many men end up blaming themselves for your cheating choice.

So this isn't simply him creating a list of consequence punishments - you complying - and him verifying. It is a journey of him discovering and internalizing that this choice wasn't his fault - it was entirely you. It is him knowing that he isn't less of a man, that this other guy wasn't so much better than him, that you willingly threw your vows aside.

Your husband has a long - possible years - journey ahead of him to rebuild his faith in himself. It's extra hard because along the way you are going to be asking him to trust you.

In his head he is going to say to himself that he implicitly trusted you once, and he got stabbed in the back. So he'll be working hard not to ever put himself in a position with you that lets you do that again to him.

Since you say you can't stop traveling alone, then it is very possible he will not ever be able to accept you back into the marriage. He knew before that you would never cheat. He now knows that you can and will cheat. So he will never ever be able to once again know that you won't cheat each and every time you are away. Oh you'll offer up nightly calls etc, but he will just think you've gotten better at hiding things. If you go unaccounted for an hour, he'll wonder who you are with. He will wonder where you are at dinner time, and he will wonder if after you hang up the phone at night, if you are truly alone.

yes, those things are all paranoid feelings. They are what he will be thinking of an worse from now on.

For you: you had sex with another man. For him: he lost his wife, his faith, and his future.


- please understand the above isn't to berate you. It's to help open up your eyes to what is going on inside him. -


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## bandit.45

LeslieH said:


> Unrealistic and highly implausible. I am thinking about what I need to change, but that will only be one of them if he requests it...which he probably never would. We both travel.


Then it's game over if that's your attitude.

Leslie, you are a very intelligent, educated woman, that much is clear. Yet you must put intellect aside and grasp common sense here. Your husband is NEVER going to trust you to be away from him for extended periods of time again.... ever.

The blind trust of his that you took for granted for so long is gone forever. 

I'm beginning to see some defeatism in your attitude towards reconcilliation. Understand this: as the offending party all you can do now to save your marriage is to sacrifice some (or maybe all) of the perks you once enjoyed about the long-distance marriage you and your husband have had. If that means giving up this job and working at a hum-drum hospital near where you live, then that may have to be the sacrifice you must make to save your marriage.

You have no bargaining clout here. Your husband is the one on the high ground, he has all the power. If you cannot wrap your head around that, then there is little hope of getting reconcilliation off the ground.


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## morituri

*Trust is a knife*. When you got married, he gave you his 'knife' to keep. You recently used that knife to stab him in the back. Now you desperately want him to give you back that knife. Why should he? Let's face it, the only way he's going to allow you to hold that knife again is if his back is not turned to you and that implies you resigning from your job and be with him 24/7 UNTIL he feel safe enough where he is willing to turn his back (you being without him) and you holding the knife. Are you willing to do this for him and your marriage?


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## LeslieH

I'll do whatever I can at this point. I just really miss him. I'm also very scared. I know when I see him Monday he won't be the same person I remember. But it's worse to know that I'm the reason he can't be the same person.

I'm scared that what I try to do won't be enough to keep him hanging on during such a long and painful process. I'm scared about having to watch him go through that process. And, yes, I'm scared about having to live through it with him. I'm not saying that I'd rather not reconcile. It's just starting to hit me.


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## bandit.45

Fear means empathy. That's good. At least you are not a cold, detached narcissist like many of the waywards some of us were, or still are, married to, that we encounter here on TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Leslie, have you ever read His Needs Her Needs? It sounds to me like your marriage fails on many levels. For instance, Harley says that any healthy marriage needs to include 15 hours a week together. If you both keep careers where you travel extensively, that will never happen. So you arrive at a point where you have to ask yourself, which is more important: THIS job or my marriage?


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## morituri

Sadly that is the price of betrayal, Leslie.

Please ask Beowulf if it is okay for you to PM Morrigan, his wife. She was you 20 years ago. She may be able to help you and Beowulf may be able to help your husband.

I truly wish you and your husband the best of luck.


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## LeslieH

turnera said:


> Leslie, have you ever read His Needs Her Needs? It sounds to me like your marriage fails on many levels. For instance, Harley says that any healthy marriage needs to include 15 hours a week together. If you both keep careers where you travel extensively, that will never happen. So you arrive at a point where you have to ask yourself, which is more important: THIS job or my marriage?


We usually see each other at least 15 hours per week. While there are the occasional longer trips, most are short mid-week to weekenders. 

I did start reading some of His Needs, Her Needs. It is helping me try to look at our marriage more objectively. It actually made me feel like I was more of a man than the woman in the relationship. I find that certain needs like financial stability and openness aren't as important to me, but having an activity partner, someone attractive, and having gratifying sex seem to be areas I value. 

I have started to feel that the core issue wasn't a lack of fulfillment of any of my relationship needs. I think it's just that I was very unhappy with myself. If anything, my marriage was what was keeping me afloat. I do love my work but not the circumstances under which I practice.


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## happyman64

LeslieH said:


> We usually see each other at least 15 hours per week. While there are the occasional longer trips, most are short mid-week to weekenders.
> 
> I did start reading some of His Needs, Her Needs. It is helping me try to look at our marriage more objectively. It actually made me feel like I was more of a man than the woman in the relationship. I find that certain needs like financial stability and openness aren't as important to me, but having an activity partner, someone attractive, and having gratifying sex seem to be areas I value.
> 
> I have started to feel that the core issue wasn't a lack of fulfillment of any of my relationship needs. I think it's just that I was very unhappy with myself. If anything, my marriage was what was keeping me afloat. I do love my work but not the circumstances under which I practice.


Leslie

I am glad you are reading and that you will see your husband on Monday. The path you are taking is the hard one but if you and your husband love each other and you both can help each other heal then your future together can be amazing together.

Stick by him Leslie. If he agrees to stick with you then you have some heavy lifting to do. 

It is good to see you thinking clearly and you are being honest with yourself about how you feel since you told the truth.

Do not ever go back to being that selfish person again. There is no satisfaction in life when your actions are so hurtful not only to your husband but to you!

Good Luck on Monday and you and your husband are in my prayers.

HM64
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sandc

LeslieH said:


> I'll do whatever I can at this point. I just really miss him. I'm also very scared. I know when I see him Monday he won't be the same person I remember. But it's worse to know that I'm the reason he can't be the same person.
> 
> I'm scared that what I try to do won't be enough to keep him hanging on during such a long and painful process. I'm scared about having to watch him go through that process. And, yes, I'm scared about having to live through it with him. I'm not saying that I'd rather not reconcile. It's just starting to hit me.


Good. You're starting to feel like any human being would. Let the feeling wash over you. That's a start. Approach the situation as if your husband wants to reconcile. He may or may not want to. He may not want to now but change his mind later. You need to figure out what it is you are going to do with yourself from here on out. You really need to travel less too.


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## turnera

My husband is the more 'effeminate' in the two of us. He wants the touching, companionship, and romance. I want financial stability, taking care of the house, and respect. We often want what we're not getting; needs change. Just do your best to know his ENs and your LBs and work on them.


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## Beowulf

LeslieH said:


> I'll do whatever I can at this point. I just really miss him. I'm also very scared. I know when I see him Monday he won't be the same person I remember. But it's worse to know that I'm the reason he can't be the same person.
> 
> I'm scared that what I try to do won't be enough to keep him hanging on during such a long and painful process. I'm scared about having to watch him go through that process. And, yes, I'm scared about having to live through it with him. I'm not saying that I'd rather not reconcile. It's just starting to hit me.


Now you are ready. Before you weren't. Ask your husband what he needs from you and give him everything. If he says stop traveling, stop traveling. If he says quit your job, quit your job. You will have to submit (and yes I use that word very purposefully) to him. The power in the relationship is going to shift to him. It has to in order to make him feel safe and secure.

When you read _His Needs Her Needs_ you should not only focus on your needs but ask him what his needs are and do your damnedest to fulfill them. You say that you see each other 15 hours a week. WRONG! Watching TV together doesn't count. Being in the same house or even the same room doesn't count. The only time that counts toward the 15 hours is when he is 100% completely focused on you and you are 100% completely focused on him. It sounds easier than it is especially if you are used to having separate lives.

This time period is critical. Regardless of what he says or the marriage counselor says you cannot get defensive about anything. If you do that will simply demonstrate that you are not remorseful and your husband may just decide that its over forever. This is going to be hard on you Leslie but if you approach this in the right frame of mind you can do this.

My wife and I were where you and your husband are now 20 years ago. We R successfully and are now going to celebrate our 30th anniversary together. One reason we joined TAM was because we have been through it and come out the other side and we know it can be done and a long healthy happy marriage can be the result. If you want to talk privately with my wife Morrigan just PM her. She is not on TAM as often as I am but she has a true desire to help other WS when she can. You can also PM me and I will let her know you are trying to reach her.

Good luck. My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Badblood

Leslie, I've a reputation for giving "no nonsense", advice, so I will now put that into practice. You are NOT good marriage material. You have poor boundaries, you have a problem with alcohol, you have no kids, you have issues with your respective roles in the marriage, you have serious integrity issues, and you are unsure about putting in the amount of work necessary for reconciliation. So where does that leave you? In a marriage , with no trust, tainted love, and two people who obviously will be unhappy for years to come. I'm not saying this to berate you, but to show that in my opinion, you should divorce, if your husband wants, and you should NOT try to persuade him otherwise. You need to work on YOUR issues, independent of your marriage issues ,FIRST, and it would be grossly unfair to ask your husband to reconcile with such a person as you are, in hopes that you will gain more insight and maturity in the future. It is ALL about him, and his wants and needs, you have forfeited any right to his forgiveness, for now. Let him go, work on yourself, and BOTH of you will have a brighter future, either together or separate.


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## Entropy3000

I do believe a person can turn their life around. They have to be all-in to do it. You cannot respect anyone if you do not respect yourself first. So yes, one has to get themselves together. But they have to make the changes needed. 

Consider this your wakeup call. Your one chance. If your husband does not get past this and who could blame him, you should still see this as your one chance to change. Work on yourself and the next time around don't repeat those same selfish choices. There is not reason however for you to give up if your husband is wanting to reconsile. You have already broken his heart. If he offers it back to you, you must not take this lightly. Do not hurt him again. If you cannot make your marriage the #1 priority then indeed let him go to find happiness with someone who can.

Realize you gave yourself to a man of low character who was out for a bit of fun. That is all you were to him. He had no investment in you. No commitment. No concern for your welfare. To be sexually desired by a man like this is nothing to feel good about. Don't romantisize it any longer. See it for what it was. I hope you guys can get past this.


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## LeslieH

Badblood said:


> Leslie, I've a reputation for giving "no nonsense", advice, so I will now put that into practice. You are NOT good marriage material. You have poor boundaries, you have a problem with alcohol, you have no kids, you have issues with your respective roles in the marriage, you have serious integrity issues, and you are unsure about putting in the amount of work necessary for reconciliation. So where does that leave you? In a marriage , with no trust, tainted love, and two people who obviously will be unhappy for years to come. I'm not saying this to berate you, but to show that in my opinion, you should divorce, if your husband wants, and you should NOT try to persuade him otherwise. You need to work on YOUR issues, independent of your marriage issues ,FIRST, and it would be grossly unfair to ask your husband to reconcile with such a person as you are, in hopes that you will gain more insight and maturity in the future. It is ALL about him, and his wants and needs, you have forfeited any right to his forgiveness, for now. Let him go, work on yourself, and BOTH of you will have a brighter future, either together or separate.


I am aware that I do need to work on myself. I am currently in touch with an IC and going to start sessions this week. I can't argue that I do have boundary issues and integrity issues as my having an affair is the most poignant illustration of that. I will say that my alcohol consumption escalated the situation, but drunken benders are not the norm for me. Blaming alcohol for my behavior would be ludicrous. But, as I have mentioned before, I will refrain, so that it will be eliminated as a threat.

I do take issue with your comment on how my not having children makes me, "NOT good marriage material". My currently not having children was a decision that both my husband and I formed together with enthusiasm and without resentment. Also, in my line of work, I see many women that have difficulty conceiving children, some can't at all. Can you callously lump them into the same category with me as "NOT good marriage material"? 

I also don't see how my finding alignment with what are classified as "his needs" means that I have issues in my respective role. I take huge issue with the term "respective role." I understand that I failed in my current role as wife because I broke the vow to " love, honor, and cherish." But I don't think a wife has to feel financially dependent on her spouse or a constant need for affection to be in a harmonious relationship. 

Whether I am "good marriage material" or not (don't worry, I know that I am in no way marriage material par excellence), we are clearly going to have some rough times ahead if he chooses to stay with me. But I'd like to think that if R works for us, we will eventually find love and happiness together versus being "unhappy for years to come".


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## Goldmember357

LeslieH said:


> I recently was went out-of-town and cheated on my husband of 8 years. I am not proud of what I've done, but I can't say that I completely regret the connection I had with the other person. Regardless, I will not be keeping in touch with the other person ( as he is in a relationship as well) and there likely no chance that we will ever run into each other again.
> 
> I admit that I am really scared to tell my husband. One part of me feels that I should tell him, but a larger part of me feels that telling him would be more hurtful than helpful to our relationship. I read all these articles and blogs about how marriages are never the same and many times worse-off after one partner admits to cheating, so what is the benefit of telling if I never plan on doing it again?
> 
> I am feeling guilty, but wouldn't it be better to be the only person that feels bad than to drag him down with me? I realize the longer I wait to tell, the worse it will be when/if I do.


You need to tell him what you did is horrible and he will find out one day whether it be in this life or another life. Also you will have to one day come clean about what you did. If you do not tell him it will eat away at you not only that but you cheating show's you do not really love him at all you are incapable of a consummate love with this man and you demonstrated that with your lack of commitment and among other things you exhibited many many character flaws. I think its best if you tell him if you do not you will have a poison that keeps eating away at you it will corrupt your heart further. As it stands i feel you are already deeply corrupted (imo) as you committed a very terrible act and sin (if your religious) and do carry out such an act show's more than just being "angry" or fickle" it shows the willingness and corruption beyond belief. 


Long story short you need to TELL HIM. It is not fair what you did you cannot keep this a secret.


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## Badblood

LeslieH said:


> I am aware that I do need to work on myself. I am currently in touch with an IC and going to start sessions this week. I can't argue that I do have boundary issues and integrity issues as my having an affair is the most poignant illustration of that. I will say that my alcohol consumption escalated the situation, but drunken benders are not the norm for me. Blaming alcohol for my behavior would be ludicrous. But, as I have mentioned before, I will refrain, so that it will be eliminated as a threat.
> 
> I do take issue with your comment on how my not having children makes me, "NOT good marriage material". My currently not having children was a decision that both my husband and I formed together with enthusiasm and without resentment. Also, in my line of work, I see many women that have difficulty conceiving children, some can't at all. Can you callously lump them into the same category with me as "NOT good marriage material"?
> 
> I also don't see how my finding alignment with what are classified as "his needs" means that I have issues in my respective role. I take huge issue with the term "respective role." I understand that I failed in my current role as wife because I broke the vow to " love, honor, and cherish." But I don't think a wife has to feel financially dependent on her spouse or a constant need for affection to be in a harmonious relationship.
> 
> Whether I am "good marriage material" or not (don't worry, I know that I am in no way marriage material par excellence), we are clearly going to have some rough times ahead if he chooses to stay with me. But I'd like to think that if R works for us, we will eventually find love and happiness together versus being "unhappy for years to come".


Leslie, you are perfectly free to disagree with anything I say, and I won't take offense, but you were the one to bring up your "roles", not I. Your cheating shows a huge amount of disrespect for your husband, can you deny this? So why do you disrespect him so much? Affairs do not happen in a vacuum, and until you can understand and address these issues , your marriage quite simply cannot recover. As a BS who has read a significant amount about affairs I can tell you that it takes many years of hard work and a lot of pain to recover, and you will have to do most of the heavy lifting, and considering your work situation I don't see how you can devote the amount of time you will need if you are constantly working away from the home, in the company of other men. I would strongly advise your husband to divorce you, based on your dishonesty, disloyalty, disrespect and lack of love for him. You being childless will make it much easier, and you can get the help you need and he can find a better, more faithful wife, so it's a win-win for both of you. Divorce is not the end of the world. I hope you will do better with your next husband.


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## Badblood

Also, please understand that my main concern is your husband's well-being, as the innocent party. My concern for you is that you can become a more respectful, trustworthy, and less selfish person. I simply do not see either of these happening in a marriage that is tainted by adultery.


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## Shaggy

Leslie, you say giving up your traveling alone isn't something you can give up practically - but tell me what would you be doing if instead of cheating, you had been grabbed off the street and raped? Would you be giving up the traveling then? What if you had been robbed and beaten severely, would give it up then?

I suspect there are many scenarios in which you got hurt in which you would give up the traveling without question. The difference is that you were in control of this situation, where as those others you wouldn't be in control. So you are saying to yourself that it isn't fair that you would have to give up traveling - since you can simply choose not to cheat when you don't want to , because you are in charge.

The problem with that logic, is that it utterly rejects your husbands feelings. He no longer trusts you, because he has proof that he cannot trust you any longer.

When a spouse accepts their SO traveling like you did, it is because they trust them. That trust is gone, and so is the acceptance of you traveling. He will never again be ok with it. never, even if he claims to be. It will affect his mood, his outlook, and it will eat away at him every time you are gone.


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## bandit.45

Goldmember357 said:


> Long story short you need to TELL HIM. It is not fair what you did you cannot keep this a secret.


Gold, catch up with us brother. She told him last week.


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## Initfortheduration

Leslie, did you show your husband any signs of contrition or how deeply this effects emotionally? Can you elaborate?


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## HurtinginTN

Entropy3000 said:


> Realize you gave yourself to a man of low character who was out for a bit of fun. That is all you were to him. He had no investment in you. No commitment. No concern for your welfare. To be sexually desired by a man like this is nothing to feel good about. Don't romantisize it any longer. See it for what it was. I hope you guys can get past this.


Very well said. That is the point I was trying to get across on my earlier post as well about only 2 reasons to "pick up a lady". I want you to know I wasn't slamming you. I certainly am in no position to judge anyone. I believe it is very important for you to not romanticize the relationship with the OM. You seem to hold him in high regard with some of your earlier posts.


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