# Avoided EA, now what?



## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok. Just found these forums (been reading for the past 4 hours!!!). Too much to type, but I do want to start a conversation. A few months ago I avoided an EA through snooping and confronting my wife (married 4, together 9) prematurely and without enough evidence (later on, I found the evidence of a real crisis). 

Now she has another male-friend that I have that "gut" feeling about. I know from what I've seen that she is helping him through a tough time and they are legitimate friends. But she was accused once of hitting on him when I wasn't around (kinda was a big deal and ruined a good night with her friends), she texts him especially after drinking 2-3 drinks, and the main thing--she is deleting his (and only his) texts!! I am sooo confused by this!! I've read the majority of these deleted texts though and I am pretty sure nothing, not even EA stuff, has happened. Just friends. Hah hah, you're thinking--right?

Confrontation is not going to be a good strategy at this point, you will have to trust me (I wore that button out, for now). Nor is suggesting counseling (just not ready yet). Nor is ultimatums about said friend (I've lost control--she would see an ultimatum as a huge threat). I am willing to try other "aggressive" actions, but I do tend to result to passive. I am a bit passive aggressive, and I am aware its a problem I need to deal with. I do not want to put divorce on the table, I did that once and it is still there. 

I want to "man up" and get her attention and affection back!! I am happy to talk about this more.


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

twolives said:


> Confrontation is not going to be a good strategy at this point, you will have to trust me (I wore that button out, for now). Nor is suggesting counseling (just not ready yet). Nor is ultimatums about said friend (I've lost control--she would see an ultimatum as a huge threat).


Then you have already lost. You basically want to know how to fight the war but refuse to pick up a gun.

If you want to man up, then man up. Confront her, give her an ultimatum of no contact with this person, and be prepared to end the marriage if she is not willing to comply.

Sorry, but if you continue to be a door mat then that is exactly how she will treat you.


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## Ladybugs (Oct 12, 2010)

if you let it slide things might and probably will go further..if confronting the situation in some way makes her uncomfortable it doesnt matter..if she is totally innocent, it wont make her uncomfortable, she will understand your concerrn and want to reassure you...it seems like whenever i read about how affairs start, somewhere along the way it involved a partner who allowed it in some way, not that its their fault, but they didnt want to rock the boat, looked the other way, and it allowed things to continue..thats just my understanding of it...an innocent partner wont get angry or uncomfortable by normal boundaries like requesting she not text another man..partners generally speaking,only get defensive like that when they are either doing something or entertaining the posibility of it


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok I suppose I suspected this response. You two are right, I need help manning up!

It's just the relationship has been on a positive upswing, and this guy really hasn't done anything wrong. I've made a minor deal about him before and she said she would stop talking to him if it bothered me. I did a WHOLE lot of confronting about two months ago regarding the first incident, but never did receive the answers I asked for. She stuck to her story that it was nothing, the guy was crazy, etc etc. I learned from texts with him and with a friend that it had a different trajectory, but that nothing did happen.

I am a passive guy but I haven't already lost. I've confronted her before and now I feel like I run the risk of sounding overly jealous and unreasonable. She is aware that we are working on our relationship right now, and she is trying to correct some things on her end. I feel like we just need some coaching, and unfortunately it won't come from therapy at this point.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

for starters it is apparent that you never did really address the 1st EA

it got swept under the rug and when that happens you almost certainly can expect the affair to continue or new affairs to pop up

why?

because the fact that you can't even confront is a sign that she was never completely transparent to begin with and you need complete transparency to recover from infidelity

she's hiding texts- what more do you need after uncovering the first affair?

screw the fact she wants privacy- she gets none, she has no right to it if she wants to be with you

you want to stop the affairs yet you don't want to do what is needed to do that- sorry but you can't be helped until you recognize that drastic measures need to be done- you are fighting for your marriage, don't take weak steps, take strong ones


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twolives said:


> Ok. Just found these forums (been reading for the past 4 hours!!!). Too much to type, but I do want to start a conversation. A few months ago I avoided an EA through snooping and confronting my wife (married 4, together 9) prematurely and without enough evidence (later on, I found the evidence of a real crisis).
> 
> Now she has another male-friend that I have that "gut" feeling about. I know from what I've seen that she is helping him through a tough time and they are legitimate friends. But she was accused once of hitting on him when I wasn't around (kinda was a big deal and ruined a good night with her friends), she texts him especially after drinking 2-3 drinks, and the main thing--she is deleting his (and only his) texts!! I am sooo confused by this!! I've read the majority of these deleted texts though and I am pretty sure nothing, not even EA stuff, has happened. Just friends. Hah hah, you're thinking--right?
> 
> ...


She is prone to EAs. I found I could not have close female friends. So I don't now. This is a major problem. Her boundaries. 

If you have removed any action you can take you have lost her already. She has to go full NC with this guy asap. If you have lost control then be prepared to have your soul destroyed.

It is not about talking about this more. You are either willing to take action or not. You basically have stated you are unable or unwilling to do so. Otherwise the talking is just going to be about how bad you feel and the horrible things this is doing to you all the way to the bitter end where you discover that the affair has gone physical and that you are willing to live in an open marriage or that she is divorcing you.

Do you have children?

You do not wait to confront an EA until you have full evidence. The longer an EA goes, day by day the worse it gets. You confront and continue to gather evidence. You do not share the source of your evidence.

Obviously there are issues in your marriage, but you cannot fully address them while she is in an affair. It takes two. But you can work on yourself.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twolives said:


> Ok I suppose I suspected this response. You two are right, I need help manning up!
> 
> It's just the relationship has been on a positive upswing, and this guy really hasn't done anything wrong. I've made a minor deal about him before and she said she would stop talking to him if it bothered me. I did a WHOLE lot of confronting about two months ago regarding the first incident, but never did receive the answers I asked for. She stuck to her story that it was nothing, the guy was crazy, etc etc. I learned from texts with him and with a friend that it had a different trajectory, but that nothing did happen.
> 
> I am a passive guy but I haven't already lost. I've confronted her before and now I feel like I run the risk of sounding overly jealous and unreasonable. She is aware that we are working on our relationship right now, and she is trying to correct some things on her end. I feel like we just need some coaching, and unfortunately it won't come from therapy at this point.


Passive guys in these situation get cuckolded. As long as you reaffirm to yourself you are passive you will be passive.

Jelousy is a mechanism that is hard wired in men to tell them that their mate is about to be impregnated by another man. Men are wired to c0ckbl0ck.

But you already said that she said this other guy was crazy. It also sounds like it was never dealt with before.

Now as far as deals are concerned. Forget that. This is about saving your marriage. Do you think the guy trying to bed your wife is going to be honorable and play by some rules. Forget that. All rules are off if your spouse is acting unfaithful and she is.

The only help I can give you to man-up is to shame you into it. That usually takes a while and it is almost always too late. These situations take immediate action. Your realtionship is not on a positive swing if your wife is interacting with another man and deleting his texts. She is in an EA. You are showing her low value as a man and that is unattractive. A man who allows another man to dominate him and poach his wife, like he is doing to you is not attractive. The man doing the dominating is attractive. A man unwilling or unable to deal with this is unattractive. So the woman moves towards the OM. The more passive the husband's response the more repulsed the wife is by him. Being a nice guy is essentially handing the wife over to the OM. Giving her space is space to deepen the affair.

Be aware that this passive / Beta behavior is what is forcing your wifes actions to seek out a more fit male to begin with. You can address this. But your window to do so is small.

You could save everyone time by calling him up, apologizing to him for living and ask him over to bang your wife. You will watch if they want. Ok, now that is crude. Are you embarrassed yet? Time is not on your side.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> for starters it is apparent that you never did really address the 1st EA
> 
> it got swept under the rug and when that happens you almost certainly can expect the affair to continue or new affairs to pop up
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

There is no privacy. Marriages have no secrets. It is complete transparency.

Oh and go here -> Married Man Sex Life


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks especially to Entropy3000. Ok it is time to fix this.
No we don't have kids.

What is the best way to confront her?


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

Deleting text:

A. Something (EA) is going on 
B. She knows you don't like the fact she's texting this guy but is willing to put your relationship at risk and disregard your feelings on the matter.

None of those options sound like someone I want to be with. Don't even confront on the EA if you're scared. Confront on the fact that she knows you don't like her texting other men, especially this one, and she does anyway and tries to cover it up. Ask her if she wants her freedom to continue her relationship with him. If she does then let her and go on with your life. You've already been burned twice now.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Kobo said:


> Deleting text:
> 
> A. Something (EA) is going on
> B. She knows you don't like the fact she's texting this guy but is willing to put your relationship at risk and disregard your feelings on the matter.
> ...


Yes. I agree. You do not have to call it an EA. You just tell her that her actions and relationship with these other men that she keeps having are unacceptable to you. 

She needs to go verifiably NC with them. That means total transparency. No secrets. No deleting emails or texts or facebook entries. No phone calls with them. If these men are her friends on facebook she must unfriend them. Now. There is no part way or weening off.

If she says that she values her activities more than you or the relationship you have you answer. In any event you start working on yourself. Go to the GYM, get some hobbies and spend time with friends and be preparing to either start a new life without her or be a better man with her. Either way it is the same effort.

You have already stated you are working on your relationship. Great, but until the affair is delt with that is very limited to what you can do with yourself.

She said she would stop talking to him if it bothered you. Why did she start it up again. She crossed a boundary then and that is being unfaithful.

A woman cannot help a man going through tough times without getting too close to him and not having feelings that should stay between the husband and the wife. She really has proved she cannot have close male friends. 

Also it sounds like she likes to drink and that lowers her inhibitions which makes it easier for her to be unfaithful. The easiest way for her to hooup with a guy is to go out drinking with them and then claim, I got drunk and don't remember what happened. Please forgive me.

How does she know this guy? Where from. How often does she see him and in what context? Work? Bar? GNOs? GYM?

Does she work?


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Go to the GYM, get some hobbies and spend time with friends and be preparing to either start a new life without her or be a better man with her. Either way it is the same effort.


This is what I have been doing because I agree, they are the same effort.

This is a better approach, it would not be good for me to confront this as an EA, but as unacceptable to me.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twolives said:


> This is what I have been doing because I agree, they are the same effort.
> 
> This is a better approach, it would not be good for me to confront this as an EA, but as unacceptable to me.


Then do that. Do not back down. Do not compromise. Do not agree to any deals. The only thing you should agree to is to offer her the same transparency to her. Do not accept one last meeting with him alone to say goodbye.

Be aware that this often sends things underground. You may find out suddenly shewants to spend the weekend at her girl friends house. Any attempt to isolate you away from her and contact with the OM. Is she planning any get aways or nights out in the next couple of weeks without you?

FWIW, I was in an EA and honestly thought we were just friends. I was wrong. My wife intervened. After I went through withdrawal I realized it was an EA. It was caught soon enough. It still took me about six weeks to go through withdrawal. It is an addiction. It is chemical in the brain.

Do not accept ... trust me. This is about love, not blind trust. Trust is verifiable.

Do not fall for you are :

controlling
insecure
being jealous
not trusting me
not my father

Or the you don't own me. Or I need some space. I love you but I am not in love with you.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

The 1st step to manning up is realizing you could lose her in the process, but ultimately you're helping yourself be a better and stronger person.

Like the old saying goes, sometimes it's better to be alone for the right reason than with someone for the wrong reasons.

But if you love her so much and are too afraid to lose her then like someone posted, you've already lost this war and it's a futile to even try if you're gonna only [email protected]** it.

Sometimes losing the war means you actually won, another cliche lol.


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## Walt (Jul 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Then do that. Do not back down. Do not compromise. Do not agree to any deals. The only thing you should agree to is to offer her the same transparency to her. Do not accept one last meeting with him alone to say goodbye.
> 
> Be aware that this often sends things underground. You may find out suddenly shewants to spend the weekend at her girl friends house. Any attempt to isolate you away from her and contact with the OM. Is she planning any get aways or nights out in the next couple of weeks without you?
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

Stand up - don't be afraid. I learned this the hard way.
 You must give her non-negotiable boundaries. * You must not be afraid to lose her. Because, if you don't stand up you will lose her anyway.*

This is hard. You're a NICE GUY. Go buy "No more Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Changed my life.

Listen to people like Entropy3000.

She's going to fight you, claim he's just "a friend." 

You and your marriage are in dangerous territory. If you sit back like you've said, the EA will inevitably turn to a PA. 

I was in a similar place a few months ago. I fought, just not hard enough. Don't make the same mistake.


Good luck.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Great advice on this thread.

I will only sum up what is already said.

Get in your mind that you may lose her. 

Get in your mind that even if you do lose her, even so, you will be MUCH happier and MUCH more able to live with yourself and respecting yourself than to continue on with what you are doing now.

Get in your mind that YOUR happiness and YOUR desires are every bit as important as anyone elses. 

This is the bare essense of all "manning up" speech.

Because the man that approaches his relationships with this attitude, the mystery that becomes clear is just this, he becomes so much more attractive by having this confidence and this honesty about him. 

And doing so he builds the happy and successful and sexual and fulfilling relationship that is meeting his desires and expecations.

And regarding your woman's habit of having male friends, stop tolerating this!

Stop being afraid to be an arsehole.

Amazing how much being an arsehole not only will your woman tolerate, but she will have been expecting and missing all along.

A woman enjoys her man being jealous of her.

The man who does not express his jealousy to his woman, communicates instead either:

1. he doesn't care about her with other men, or 

2. he care's but is afraid of the conflict.

Do not be afraid of the conflict, do not be afraid of being some arsehole, and pursue with all your might, confidently and firmly, whatever may be your own expecations and desires!

I wish you well.


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok I will let you know what happens. I've definitely started the confrontation at this point. I feel like absolute ****.


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

I confronted her and she at first was sorry, she didn't know why she deleted the texts. She didn't know it was upsetting me and that she was being suspicious.

Then she pulled a big trust card and said that BECAUSE I don't trust her, she is going NC with him.

BTW she obviously doesn't see this or even the prior incident as an EA. She is "sick of" my trust issue.

Now what?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

prepare for her to go underground

she still isn't taking responsibility for her actions


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

What does that mean, take responsibility for her actions? How will I know that she is?

How do I respond to the trust thing? She keeps throwing it at me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Here ye be brother:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

You sound like such a "nice guy"

That's truly at the root of your issues.

I'll bet you adored your mother.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

twolives said:


> What does that mean, take responsibility for her actions? How will I know that she is?
> 
> How do I respond to the trust thing? She keeps throwing it at me.


in order to reconcile after infidelity, the following has to occur-

1) No contact with the OM/OW
2) Complete transparency- the WS needs to give up all passwords, allow access to phones, etc no more privacy
3) WS has to be truly remorseful and take blame for the affair


she clearly hasn't done 2 or 3, therefore, the possibility of her obeying 1 are rather slim and in this case it sounds as if she has more than one OM


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twolives said:


> I confronted her and she at first was sorry, she didn't know why she deleted the texts. She didn't know it was upsetting me and that she was being suspicious.
> 
> Then she pulled a big trust card and said that BECAUSE I don't trust her, she is going NC with him.
> 
> ...


You know what? Good. Is she going NC? I don't care why she is as long as she is. She is just trying to save face. Remember the trust thing. Just verify that she goes NC. After she goes through withdrawal then you can start working more and on your relationship. Keep working on yourself. If you must trust, then trust in that she will see you as a more attractive man for standing up for yourself and the marriage. 

This is actually an easy one. You tell her you love her and trust her. But you do not trust the guys who are gaming her. Leave it at that. Seriously. She needs better boundaries. It is too early yet becasue the struggle for her to stay NC has only begun. 

If things progress forward you should do the His Needs Her Needs with her. As part of that you work with your wife to set mutually agreed upon boundaries. Don't mess this up! When you do it you must be honest. One of your boundaries should be no close opposite sex friends. You both should agree to that and make it verifiable. This is not about whether other people have them and are fine. You guys haved proved you guys are not fine with these. You gotta go with what works for you. These guys are filling some needs she has. So man up and be that man she wants.

See then her boundary is set so that you can trust her to not get involved with other men. If you seeing her do that you know she has broken that trust. Much easier to deal with instead of trying to look at emails and figure out if someone is having an EA and at what point it began. The best way to play that game is to not play at all. We have to trust our wives to not put themselves into these situations. So there must be agreed upon boundaries. This is not being controlling. It is being loving and thoughful and respectful of each other. You should not be trusting these guys with your wife. 

I trust my wife more than anyone else in this world. If she started being secretive, I would start losing trust and would investigate. I have never had to do that.

I have posted it before but I have setteld that I will be in this priority the man in my wife's life:

1) Her Lover
2) Her best male friend
3) Her husband

Lover first. I leave no room for anyone else to poach her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twolives said:


> What does that mean, take responsibility for her actions? How will I know that she is?
> 
> How do I respond to the trust thing? She keeps throwing it at me.


You trust her to not put herself in these situations. You will never trust other men. You love her too much. That is your answer.

Simple is best here. If she is also seeing these men one on one, I have no idea ... that is called dating. There was no really mention of her activities.

I don't think you gave us any background here on her activites, how she knows these guys and under what circunstances she interacts with them. Hard to help without that information.

We kinda need to know what you are up against.

Does she work? Are these guys from work? Does she go out drinking with them, without you? It would be easier then to answer your question.

But essentially she has to realize that what she is doing is forming emotional relationships with other men that leave her vulnerable. So set the boundaries with her and then she is responsible to keep those boundaries. As was said she needs to be transparent.


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## twolives (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok Thanks guys that is an awesome answer for the trust thing, and to be honest I used it before because it made sense to me. I trust her, not the guys. Even the nice guys.

So guy #1 started right after her new job. She went out to drinks one night and drank too much and came home (she shouldn't have driven) but I didn't think anything about it. Just told she went out with work friends. I really thought she meant a *group*, but it was more of a double date as her girlfriend was interested in the other guy and had sorta tried to hook them up. I woke up basically in the middle of the night and had a panic attack and checked her email that she left open. I found something along the lines of "hey will dinner be weird tonight" then "no not unless you bring your H." I accused her of cheating (didn't know what the hell I was doing) and I didn't even have all the ammo. Found that later: One text saying from her GF saying "I dont think you would have gone through with it because you love your hubby" and one from the guy saying "I don't know what you want but you are married and I'm not ok with this." (WHAT?!) Episode #1 exploded into a couple month long fight, but nothing else happened. I will certainly watch for it to creep back though.

Episode #2 actually began before #1, but it was part of a group of friends and it wasn't until recently that she has been saying she wants to hang out with this guy as a friend. When I heard that I was like, alone?! and she ignored me. Then over the last month she has been texting him and facebooking and finally today I called her out on deleting the texts.

Does it sound like I am overreacting? I would like her to get a different job but that is just a cork in the barrel.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

twolives said:


> Ok Thanks guys that is an awesome answer for the trust thing, and to be honest I used it before because it made sense to me. I trust her, not the guys. Even the nice guys.
> 
> So guy #1 started right after her new job. She went out to drinks one night and drank too much and came home (she shouldn't have driven) but I didn't think anything about it. Just told she went out with work friends. I really thought she meant a *group*, but it was more of a double date as her girlfriend was interested in the other guy and had sorta tried to hook them up. I woke up basically in the middle of the night and had a panic attack and checked her email that she left open. I found something along the lines of "hey will dinner be weird tonight" then "no not unless you bring your H." I accused her of cheating (didn't know what the hell I was doing) and I didn't even have all the ammo. Found that later: One text saying from her GF saying *"I dont think you would have gone through with it because you love your hubby*" and one from the guy saying *"I don't know what you want but you are married and I'm not ok with this."* (WHAT?!) Episode #1 exploded into a couple month long fight, but nothing else happened. I will certainly watch for it to creep back though.
> 
> ...


You are not overreacting and this was way worse than I imagined. This is single behavior. As you put it she went out on a double date with another man. I won't speculat what happend that night but it does not sound good for the home team. This crossed I don't now how many "default" boundaries. A woman does not ask her husband to trust he under these circumstances. Whether it is cheating or not people can debate but it is disrespectful, unfaithful and reckless. Plus they were drinking. How late did they stay out?

You did not need more information but you got it. How did she explain the bolded texts ... not that her explanation makes a big diferrence. What did it mean go through woth this? Yes they sound like she cheated and got physical in some one. The guy felt weirded out. I donlt know if that happened but it got swept under the rug.

Wives who hang out with guys fall into EAs and eventually end up banging them. I don't care how many folks think this is ok and that it does not result in this, it is just F'ing stupid wrong.

Now the problem is that you questioned it but I did not see a reply and often when people act out they just do it anyway. Has she? It sounds like it. What exactly is hanging out?

She needs to go NC with this guy too.

There are probably more. Boundaries. I see none.

Wow this must be a blast for her. She can act single and has you to fall back on. WoooHooo!!!!

Actually if she works with any of these men she needs to change jobs. You ca'tn fix everything all at once but you can work on you while you close this stuff down. You cannot make her do anything. You can only explain what is an is not acceptable to you. Her activities are way unacceptable in my opinion. But what matters is how you feel. She is certainly acting like someone who is single and on the prowl.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

If you press the issue, you MAY lose her.

But if you hide in your shell and do nothing, you sure as hell WILL lose her.

You've got one chance to save your M and two to lose it. You need to give her the ultimatum to NC, even if it means quitting her job and working at a convent.

And, I always say: Sometimes, the best way to make someone wake up and see what they stand to lose, is to go ahead and let them lose it.

You can always reconcile later.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

F-102 said:


> *If you press the issue, you MAY lose her.
> 
> But if you hide in your shell and do nothing, you sure as hell WILL lose her.
> *
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

These are wise words.


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## questar1 (Aug 4, 2011)

Speaking as a wife, I would not respect my husband or the marriage if he did not take a strong stand for obvious boundaries that define a marriage. You sound kind of wimpy to me. I think your wife is testing the boundaries to see how much you care. The longer you are nice about it, the farther out she can assume the boundaries are. You are being dishonest by being so "nice." She is respecting the boundaries you apparently stand for. In my experience it doesn't work to lie to oneself or others about boundaries and I don't know how you can live with someone who keeps teasing you with inappropriate behavior as if she wants you to have a reaction. I wish you luck with this because it is more about you than about her. I hope you find the strength to stand up for what you believe in.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your wife was/is way out of line----she does not go out with workers as a couple with another man, even if they all went seperately---she ended up hooked up as a couple---that is COMPLETELY INAPROPRIATE---for conduct, for a married woman, and what is she doing going out drinking with her work buddies, till late at night anyway----If she goes for a drink, it is for one drink to unwind, and she is home w/in an hour, or so---ANYTHING ELSE INAPPROPRIATE FOR A MARRIED WOMAN

As for the comment about I will stop the EA, cuz you don't trust me----she needs to stop the EA. cuz she loves you, and wants THIS MGE., to work----there should be no other reason---otherwise tell her to get the he*l, out and file for Divorce

Your wife is being innapropriate, and it needs to stop, you need to stop being mr. nice-guy


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