# What would you do / expect?



## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi,

I'm in the dog house this morning.

My wife has been sick since night before last. Yesterday I stayed home from work to help her out and leave her rest so I used one of my family related leaves. I have 37.5 hrs per fiscal year allowed off for these cases as well as family appointments ect. Year end is end of March and I now have 9hrs left.

I do have some sick days of my own that I could have called in sick with but firstly since I just called in sick-wife the day before it would look suspicious that I call in sick for myself the next day (though not impossible), secondly I like to have a buffer of sick days available to me for if I am actually sick weather for a flu or something more serious that could occurr...

This morning she is still not feeling well but I have to go to work unless I use up the last of my time, this would then leave no time for appointments with the kids ect. She didn't ask me to stay but I could tell that she was hinting at it but at the same time I avoided the subject knowing that she would get mad. When I started getting my lunch ready and she knew I was going to work she started the silent treatment and being snippy with the kids then called me an idiot ect ect... I offered to take an hour or so to give her a chance to go to the clinic and she said "I don't need you"...

When she dropped me off I got an angry look in place of a kiss goodbye.

Questions: 
Did I do anything wrong by not taking that extra day off??

What do you as a wife expect from your husbands when you are sick in this situation?

I try sooo hard to keep her happy and it's like a stab in the heart when she reacts like this to decisions I make... though she doesn't seem to care how she affects me it really hurts... then the kids hear us fighting for this and it affects them as well as they know they'll have to walk on egg shells when they get home from school until I get home...


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

when she's home sick and you're there and the kids are at school, what exactly are you doing? just sitting there and getting her stuff if needed?
I don't think you were being unreasonable at all, maybe look at it like she's feeling ill and feels secure when you're there and she was diappointed, however, she need to grow up if she's acting like that. Your kids don't deserve that attitude just because she's not well and neither do you. 
And really, if she can drive...she's not that sick that she need you around. Just my opinion though


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Well yesterday I got the kids up and fed them then got them to do their morning thing, teeth and get dressed. Fed the baby, waited until the last possible minute to wake her so she could do their hair...

Brought them to the bus. Once I came back I went downstairs with the baby and she went to bed until 11 ish. We had to go pick up the child she babysits (which I am not authorised to do) otherwise I would have gone myself. Got lunch went home and had lunch then put the little ones to bed. While they were in bed I went outside to cut the grass and was done by the time they woke up....

That's a snap shot of yesterday, in the eve when the kids went to bed (she as well since she's really tired and sick) I went to music practice...

So I just called my wife to see how things were, she's got a prescription for meds so she went to the clinic. I got that out of her and she said " Can't talk" and hung up... I know she's not well and I feeel so bad for not staying home... 

between a rock and a hard place is what comes to mind...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

there's a passive aggressive thread right underneath this one which is ironic because that is what your wife is being


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

you sound like a male version of me, take on the world and feel bad for someone because of their emotions and the way they deal with issues. 
I bet you have a hard time speaking up and saying listen, ive done what I can so stop this nonsense because you know the reaction you'll get. I feel guilty and take on everything too just to keep the peace.
Well honey, that has bitten me in the butt for the last 10 years and now its hard to get out of. 
Your wife is an adult and should act like one, and you're enabling her by no calling her on her childish behaviour. I get it, I do because I do the same thing but I've got to make some changes to make this work for both of us and so do you, otherwise you wouldn't be posting about it right?!
DOn't be a doormat my dear....


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

How sick does an adult have to be to need a full time nurse? While I appreciate soup and sandwiches when I have the flu I'm not about to perish left on my own.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> How sick does an adult have to be to need a full time nurse? While I appreciate soup and sandwiches when I have the flu I'm not about to perish left on my own.


It's true though, I think for her its the fact that she has to care for the kids which I get... It's tough caring for a bunch of kids when you're sick... im considering leaving but now she'll probably just tell me to stay here to make me feel worst than I already do...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's extremely unreasonable - especially in today's economy - to expect both adults to stay home when one is sick, unless she's so sick she is bed-bound. Obviously she's not, if she's going to the clinic.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Here is our email exchange this morning... arrgggg!!!!

Me: " Hi, Are you at the clinic?"

W: "know what sucks that i have to stay home with all the kids when i'm sick....i wished i had a job atleast i could get some peace and quiet"
"anyway whatever....i have to deal with the hand that my life has given me..nobody that care...whatever"


Me: "I know it sucks dear!!!! I could have taken a sick day from myself but it would have sounded odd since I took the fam day yesterday... only got like 9hrs left..."

W: "yup whatever anyway i'm pissed off so yeah whatever" "thats all i am is [email protected]#t anyway"

Me: "You know better than that eh!!

I can come home at lunch time, come get me after the kids come home,,, i'll have 5 hrs left for appointments so it should be enough... It didn't fall very well that it's a half day.."

No replies yet as she is gone to pick up the sitting child...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

DEFINITELY passive aggressive

is she like this whenever she is upset or just today when she is sick?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stop letting her act like a spoiled brat.

She will only do it if you LET her. 

Ignore it.

When she is ready to talk to you like an adult, one who is not being passive aggressive, then you can talk calmly about your decision. She's baiting you and if you take the bait, YOU LOSE.

Show her how a mature adult handles adversity.

Oh, and find and print out an article on passive aggressiveness and hand it to her when she starts playing the pity card when you get home. Just hand it to her and walk away. It's high time you addressed it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A.A pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following: 
1.passively resists fulfilling routine social and occupational tasks
2.*complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others*
3*.is sullen and argumentative*
4*.unreasonably criticizes* and scorns authority
5.*expresses envy and resentment toward those apparently more fortunate*
6.*voices exaggerated and persistent complaints of personal misfortune*
7.alternates between hostile defiance and contrition


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## lovemybabies (Oct 4, 2011)

is it your kids she's watching or an in-home daycare? 

If it's other people kids then if she's that sick she shouldn't be watching them


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Stop letting her act like a spoiled brat.
> 
> She will only do it if you LET her.
> 
> ...


it sounds tempting to do that but i don't know if I can deal with the days of consequence....  man o man i wish there was an easier way to resolve it but I know it won't go away...!


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> A.A pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:
> 1.passively resists fulfilling routine social and occupational tasks
> 2.*complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others*
> 3*.is sullen and argumentative*
> ...


I see many of these caracteristics in her.... not all the time and not all in the same cases but yes, it's a good resume...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

lovemybabies said:


> is it your kids she's watching or an in-home daycare?
> 
> If it's other people kids then if she's that sick she shouldn't be watching them


She babysits one child after preschool from 1130 to 5 ish... rest are our kids (4 so that's a small daycare in itself) ...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Oh and btw the answer to my proposition was "nevermind"... it's just playing with me at this point i think...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> it sounds tempting to do that but i don't know if I can deal with the days of consequence....


So you prefer to set up a LIFETIME of being a doormat, just to avoid this one temper tantrum?

I'm not saying to ignore that she's sick. When you are home from work, immediately remove all obligations from her shoulders so she can rest. Hunker down and focus on getting everyone well. 

But that's an entirely different issue from standing up for yourself and not backing down when your wife guilts you into putting her on a pedestal. Women on pedestals usually end up hating their men.


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## likegum (Oct 2, 2011)

Interesting. Sometimes my wife is quite understanding in the moment but makes comments later on like "remember when you didn't...." or "whatever, I'll just do it myself from now on and won't even bother to ask..."

A bit of advice, don't tell here she's PA. That'll not go over well. Read about it and help her, and yourself, but resist the label. Maybe she'll notice herself, maybe she won't.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> So you prefer to set up a LIFETIME of being a doormat, just to avoid this one temper tantrum?
> 
> I'm not saying to ignore that she's sick. When you are home from work, immediately remove all obligations from her shoulders so she can rest. Hunker down and focus on getting everyone well.
> 
> But that's an entirely different issue from standing up for yourself and not backing down when your wife guilts you into putting her on a pedestal. Women on pedestals usually end up hating their men.


Yeah that's a good point, although sometimes i feel like just leaving her go would be easier but i know that's not the answer even if she's threatened to leave before. I feel she really wouldn't leave.
It's tough to bring up these things when things are good because I don't want to create problems then but then in the moments I don't want to make it worst... but i know i need to take this on... maybe i can make a plan of what to do and when to do them or something...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

So I just called her like I usually do at lunch time, she seems to have cooled off some and actually spoke to me for a few minutes. She wasn't quite ready to say I Love you when we hung up but I can't be too picky...
So now things are cooling off and I feel like brining this episode up again will just bring the anger back... oh man what a bind!


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

likegum said:


> Interesting. Sometimes my wife is quite understanding in the moment but makes comments later on like "remember when you didn't...." or "whatever, I'll just do it myself from now on and won't even bother to ask..."
> 
> A bit of advice, don't tell here she's PA. That'll not go over well. Read about it and help her, and yourself, but resist the label. Maybe she'll notice herself, maybe she won't.


Thanks for the insight,,, you seem to be going through much of the same things as I am. However my W will be worst in the moment than outside but she will linger things on though and bring them up for what appears as wanting to remind me how worthless I am...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Some people set up a once-a-week conversation where they review the marriage. You may end up needing to request doing it in front of a counselor, though, if she's unwilling to admit her issues.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I'm going to catch hell for this and believe me I am the furthest thing from a chauvinist or sexist there is...but like it or not there are gender roles in a family dynamic. Her's is to be at home with the kids. Yours is to go to work. It just so happens that when she's sick she has to be at home and the kids are there too. If you worked from home you would be at home sick as well but that wouldnt prevent you from having to "deal with" the kids.

Time for her to woman up. You can't take a break from child rearing because you have the sniffles and expect daddy to take time off work. Ridiculous.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm going to catch hell for this and believe me I am the furthest thing from a chauvinist or sexist there is...but like it or not there are gender roles in a family dynamic. Her's is to be at home with the kids. Yours is to go to work. It just so happens that when she's sick she has to be at home and the kids are there too. If you worked from home you would be at home sick as well but that wouldnt prevent you from having to "deal with" the kids.
> 
> Time for her to woman up. You can't take a break from child rearing because you have the sniffles and expect daddy to take time off work. Ridiculous.


Yeah, I think back to the days when I was growing up and my mom would be sick. My dad works in construction and would not stay home to watch us... I know we have 4 kids instead of 2 but I think what has happened is that I have jobs that allow this to some degree and have been spoiled by doing it for so long... I would imagine that when the baby is old enough for school I won't have to worry about that scenario anymore but it won't take the root cause of the issue away in any manner....


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## wemogirl (May 31, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I'm going to catch hell for this and believe me I am the furthest thing from a chauvinist or sexist there is...but like it or not there are gender roles in a family dynamic. Her's is to be at home with the kids. Yours is to go to work. It just so happens that when she's sick she has to be at home and the kids are there too. If you worked from home you would be at home sick as well but that wouldnt prevent you from having to "deal with" the kids.
> 
> Time for her to woman up. You can't take a break from child rearing because you have the sniffles and expect daddy to take time off work. Ridiculous.


This is true to some extent. But depending on how old the kids are and how much "watching" they need and how sick the person taking care of them is, it may not be safe to allow someone who is sick being the primary caregiver. It would be a lot easier to be sick and take care of a 4 year old than it would an 18 month old. Also, if your older kids are home and can help out, that makes a difference too.

I hope your wife feels better soon OP. It's really difficult to have to take care of kids when you are sick. My DH has only had to come home early once b/c I was sick and running a fever, not feeling well enough to drive to pick up kids from school. I have however had to ask him to help out if one of the kids is sick and I don't want to make them get out (especially if it's cold/rainy out) when I have to take the others to school. It's easier for him to do this now that he can work from home.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

strat_guy said:


> So now things are cooling off and I feel like brining this episode up again will just bring the anger back... oh man what a bind!


nope in fact it's easier to bring up

preface your complaint that by asking that she not get defensive and how this is an important issue that you wish to improve upon to strengthen your marriage



rug sweeping breeds resentment and contempt


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Sorry to hear this is being taken out on you,
Logically, if she is babysitting a child in the afternoons, she should have a "backup". My son went to a dayhome when he was little, and if the caregiver was ill, she had someone else come over to her house. Usually her mother. Because her being "sick" wasn't a good enough excuse for me to NOT go to work. 

Is there someone you could call, arrange with a neighbor, work out a deal where she would babysit in return instead of money?

What would happen if she was really sick or had an accident?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have a book for you to read. It will give you the courage to do what you need to do. It's called Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. from Help for Men, Mentor for Men, Men's Groups, Relationship Advice, Life Coach. Essential reading for every husband.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

wemogirl said:


> This is true to some extent. But depending on how old the kids are and how much "watching" they need and how sick the person taking care of them is, it may not be safe to allow someone who is sick being the primary caregiver. It would be a lot easier to be sick and take care of a 4 year old than it would an 18 month old. Also, if your older kids are home and can help out, that makes a difference too.
> 
> I hope your wife feels better soon OP. It's really difficult to have to take care of kids when you are sick. My DH has only had to come home early once b/c I was sick and running a fever, not feeling well enough to drive to pick up kids from school. I have however had to ask him to help out if one of the kids is sick and I don't want to make them get out (especially if it's cold/rainy out) when I have to take the others to school. It's easier for him to do this now that he can work from home.


True enough, our youngest is 2 so somewhat of a handfull and I soo get it... it's hard for her and I realize that hence why I stayed home yesterday hoping it would give her that extra time to get better but she's still sick today, same as you fever, strep thoat... it's not that I don't beleive she is sick enough for me to stay home but that I need to be economical with my leave times... if I use it all up before the end of the year then I won't have any left for appointments ect... then she'll have to go alone when any of them have appointments...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What about neighbors, friends, or family? Can you have someone drop in on them?


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> Yeah, I think back to the days when I was growing up and my mom would be sick. My dad works in construction and would not stay home to watch us... I know we have 4 kids instead of 2 but I think what has happened is that I have jobs that allow this to some degree and have been spoiled by doing it for so long... I would imagine that when the baby is old enough for school I won't have to worry about that scenario anymore but it won't take the root cause of the issue away in any manner....


Twice in my life have I been too sick to look after kids. If she is that sick she should cancel the one she babysits, I wouldn't want my kid cared for by someone that sick. Other than that, it's movie day and other quiet activities that lets mom rest. 
I have looked after young children (babies) through pneumonia and gallbladder attacks. I've had 2 stomach flus where I was in bathroom every 20 minutes where child care was impossible.
Sounds like she's a drama queen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

It does appear out of the norm from other people... I think its my fault for conditioning her that I would do these things... I feel really bad that she is sick and wish I could do more but man why make me feel worst by rubbing in how useless I am.

I don't even mind doing it when I can though but she totally disregards any attempt at helping her I make..


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## wemogirl (May 31, 2011)

strat_guy said:


> True enough, our youngest is 2 so somewhat of a handfull and I soo get it... it's hard for her and I realize that hence why I stayed home yesterday hoping it would give her that extra time to get better but she's still sick today, same as you fever, strep thoat... it's not that I don't beleive she is sick enough for me to stay home but that I need to be economical with my leave times... if I use it all up before the end of the year then I won't have any left for appointments ect... then she'll have to go alone when any of them have appointments...


I don't know your particular situation but 99% of the time I take my kids alone to appointments. DH has gone when it's their first checkup at 5 days or it's really important (like when our oldest had surgery) but for the most part, I go by myself and drag whoever I have to along. Many times I've had to take all 4 kids to the dr by myself. It's not ideal but I'd rather do that and then be able to use DH when I really need him like when the kids are sick.

I hope you both can come to a solution.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

wemogirl said:


> I don't know your particular situation but 99% of the time I take my kids alone to appointments. DH has gone when it's their first checkup at 5 days or it's really important (like when our oldest had surgery) but for the most part, I go by myself and drag whoever I have to along. Many times I've had to take all 4 kids to the dr by myself. It's not ideal but I'd rather do that and then be able to use DH when I really need him like when the kids are sick.
> 
> I hope you both can come to a solution.


That appears to be the normal way or behavior... i sure hope to find a solution as well because it's crushing me


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The FIRST thing you need to do is to start pulling back. Stop putting her on a pedestal and start expecting her to pull her weight. You have to get your relationship back on an even level. 

Did you know that most women who cheat, from what I've seen over the last 10 years, are (1) SAHMs and (2) those whose husbands hand them everything on a silver platter and treat them like princesses. Pretty soon, they start believing it, AND they start finding their doormat husband disgusting, and start looking for a 'real' man who will fight for what he wants.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> The FIRST thing you need to do is to start pulling back. Stop putting her on a pedestal and start expecting her to pull her weight. You have to get your relationship back on an even level.
> 
> Did you know that most women who cheat, from what I've seen over the last 10 years, are (1) SAHMs and (2) those whose husbands hand them everything on a silver platter and treat them like princesses. Pretty soon, they start believing it, AND they start finding their doormat husband disgusting, and start looking for a 'real' man who will fight for what he wants.


Ok that's a good point!! I am going to try and gradually be more firm... I know i've tried that before and she usually just replies with somethine like "stop yelling at me" or "stop being snotty" ect... when in fact all I am doing is being firm... nor even raising my voice... 

So after work things we somewhat better as she is starting to feel better as well... she was still grumpy but not as angry. Although she started sweeping the floor as we were sitting down for supper (she didn't feel like eating) and my daughter walked in her way and through the dirt, she told her to move and called her an idot... man I don't like it when she calls them names like that.. really doesn't matter if she's sick they don't deserve to be called names at home... she just has no control over her mouth at all.

Anyway, things are back to normal today so I'm going to try and be better to work towards changing this!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh, that's bad, strat - real bad. Calling your child a name is ABUSE.

I'm going to call you on this and tell you that you need to start enforcing a STRICT BOUNDARY around your children. Any time she calls one of them a name, you need to go up to her, stop what she is doing, and say 'Please do not call our child that name. It is wrong and it is harmful.' Let the child hear you say it. They need to learn that it is wrong to do it, or else THEY will continue the pattern to THEIR kids. Stop the cycle.

Will she yell at you? Of course. But if you remain consistent and call her out each time she does it, she'll learn to stop. Aren't your kids' mental well beings worth you getting some flak from your adult wife?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Has anyone recommended the book No More Mr. Nice Guy yet? You need to read it THIS WEEK.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Oh, that's bad, strat - real bad. Calling your child a name is ABUSE.
> 
> I'm going to call you on this and tell you that you need to start enforcing a STRICT BOUNDARY around your children. Any time she calls one of them a name, you need to go up to her, stop what she is doing, and say 'Please do not call our child that name. It is wrong and it is harmful.' Let the child hear you say it. They need to learn that it is wrong to do it, or else THEY will continue the pattern to THEIR kids. Stop the cycle.
> 
> Will she yell at you? Of course. But if you remain consistent and call her out each time she does it, she'll learn to stop. Aren't your kids' mental well beings worth you getting some flak from your adult wife?


It's true I shouldn't let her do that... I'd rather take the heat than them for sure as I know that this is harming their self esteem... I don't know why she doesn't realize that but I think her upbringing being quite different than mine may explain it. Though it's going to be hard I am going to try and confront her on these types of things more especially when the kids are concerned.
She doesn't seem to have a sense of how her actions affect them. Like when they do something wrong and she throws a fit and gives them a way over reactive consequence like staying in bed for the rest of the eve... Other times she'll send them to their room, I will leave them in there for a while and ask them to go apologize (since she would just leave them forever) when they do she just brushes them off with "whatever's" or "leave me alone" or blows up "you don't mean it because you always..."

Result of that is sometimes when I ask them to apologize the child gets upset or scared because of the anticipated reaction...

Although I know these are feelings she has and myself as well but when the child gathers the guts to go apologize it should be acknowledged otherwise they loose the desire or ability to apologize... That is something I need to talk to her about as well.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Has anyone recommended the book No More Mr. Nice Guy yet? You need to read it THIS WEEK.


Yes they have yesterday... i tried to download the pdf version but i can't get it from work so I will have to try from home asap... thanks!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> Result of that is sometimes when I ask them to apologize the child gets upset


My Dh is passive aggressive. He blows up for the wrong reasons. Just this weekend, DD21 was home from college, her new boyfriend was over all weekend, and DH - who gets jealous if DD21 doesn't fawn all over him and stroke his ego (yes, HIS ego; yes, the DAD's ego) - had a blow up about the boyfriend. Threatened to take DD21's car away and make her take a bus back to college. So I said I'd go talk to her. 

Do you see how sick that is? I did go talk to her, when what I should have done is call HIM out for his childish, abusive behavior. Instead, I made my daughter take the brunt of his bad behavior, FURTHER harmed her self esteem, just because I was TOO CHICKEN to stand up to him. 

The worst thing is that all the times that I have done this to her - made HER out to be the bad guy when it was always HIM, just because I was TOO CHICKEN to stand up to him - has created a lack of confidence in herself, a dysfunction I am not sure I can ever make up for in her.

Please don't do that to your kids. PLEASE stop making them apologize to her when SHE is the abusive, dysfunctional person. 

They NEED YOU to protect them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And start reading some books on abuse.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

NO MORE MR NICE GUY - buy it! read it! implement it!

You'll thank me later for the suggestion!

PS - I hadn't seen Tunera's suggestion to read it yet when I made my comment


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

General Characteristics of Emotionally Abusive Mothers

•Making the child/teen feel responsible for the mother's feelings.
•Threatening them in general.
•Threatening them specifically with rejection or abandonment.
•Threatening them with vague, unstated consequences.
•Using force upon them.
•Invalidating their feelings.
•Laying undeserved guilt on them.
•Placing undeserved blame on them.
•Dominating the conversations.
•Refusing to apologize.
•Always needing to have the last word.
•Judging or rejecting their friends.
•Sending them to their rooms for crying.
•Locking them out of the house.
•Using punishments and rewards to manipulate and control them.
•Invading their privacy.
•Under-estimating them.
•Failing to show trust in them.
•Labeling them.
•Criticizing them.
•Giving them the silent treatment.
•Failing to give them real explanations.
•Giving non-explanations such as "because it is wrong" or "because it is inappropriate" or "because it is a sin"
•Slapping


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

boys thanks for that talk... it saddens me to think of her that way since she is soo loving and really does love us to death. She would really do anything for us but just when things don't go well or her way that goes out the window for a period... 
Im going to try and make a plan on what to say to stop this in it's tracks... how have you dealt with this when you've seen positive outcomes?? 
Im kind of scared to read on abuse and think of her like that...  ahhhh man what a suckish situation


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'll bet that the reason you turned into such a doormat is because you tried to avoid her illogical outbursts early on. That emboldened her and she now includes the kids. 

That doesn't mean she's a bad person. She probably learned it in childhood. Will she ever see it? Maybe. But in the meantime, YOU will have to come in and be the enforcer. Never talk bad about HER; only her actions. You can do it.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> I'll bet that the reason you turned into such a doormat is because you tried to avoid her illogical outbursts early on. That emboldened her and she now includes the kids.
> 
> That doesn't mean she's a bad person. She probably learned it in childhood. Will she ever see it? Maybe. But in the meantime, YOU will have to come in and be the enforcer. Never talk bad about HER; only her actions. You can do it.


ok so that brought tears to my eyes... 

She is a great person... that list of definitions is like almost 100% right... although im sure i do some of these myself but the diff is that I see that and will stop.. It was there early on and she did that with me when we were dating.. puting up fusses when things didn't go her way or when I wanted to do something other than be with her...

Before we met I was a drug user, started going to church and got delivered, we met after that and she though she smelled smoke on my fingers,, right away she freeked out at me not telling me why she was mad and lasted hours. I never knew why she was mad and only found out years later... I told her I though she though I was smelling like another girl or something  funny enough but goes to show that we both have issues, im too passive and she just jumps the gun way too fast!!


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

In my defence on not calling her out when she calls the kids names, I always thought it wasn't good to go against your spouse or agrue in front of the kids as to not disrupt the "united front" concept but at the same time she does it all the time, for example this morning was cold out and my 6yr old wanted to wear a head band and the 10 yr old wanted a hat... when W say the 6yr old with the head band she freeked at her and told her to take it off and use her coats hood... of course the child was upset as I just told her it was ok, the 10 yr old came by and didn't have the hat on anymore so she must have heard the conflict and took it off before W saw her... I was tempted to tell W that I had just told them it was ok but then she would have gotten mad and said "whatever" or "your not the one that has to do their hair everyday"... thought this might provide more insight on the dynamics...

as im typing this i feel aweful for talking this way about her... im terrified at confronting this.... feel like a traitor...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The very first post you made threw up red flags, honestly. No one says 'dog house' unless they are used to being PUT there. As if they had no control. You, my friend, have been indoctrinated. The best solution is to educate yourself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> I was tempted to tell W that I had just told them it was ok *but then she would have gotten mad*


 Enough said.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why don't you find a good psychologist and start going? He/she will help you find your center, so that you can start making healthy choices.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> In my defence on not calling her out when she calls the kids names, I always thought it wasn't good to go against your spouse or agrue in front of the kids as to not disrupt the "united front" concept


What you do is tell her - away from the kids - that you find her actions unacceptable to the well being of the kids and that you WILL start stepping in when you find her actions inappropriate. You are warning her. Tell her you're more than happy to sit down with her and come to agreement on what you both should be doing with the kids. After that, you WILL be stepping in. Her choice.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Why don't you find a good psychologist and start going? He/she will help you find your center, so that you can start making healthy choices.


i've thought of that,,, i think there is someone available through work but then it would have to be sometime that she can't know because then she's going to want details... thinking of it though which was why i went looking for a forum...
i know you're not all psycologists but it feels some good to pour it out to y'all and get some encouragement / advice...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> it would have to be sometime that she can't know because then she's going to want details...


Say what?!

Why the hell do you have to tell her details? It's none of her business.

Jeez, strat, get the NMMNG book today! And LET HER SEE YOU READING IT.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Say what?!
> 
> Why the hell do you have to tell her details? It's none of her business.
> 
> Jeez, strat, get the NMMNG book today! And LET HER SEE YOU READING IT.


hmm ok,, how would you feel in that case if your H was reading this? Would it make you think there is something wrong?? I guess there is but I don't like to confront things because firstly of anger also I don't like hurting peoples feelings...


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

There is something wrong with your wife. She is using her anger to control you (and you allow it) and she is abusive to your kids. The world seems to revolve around her. Either she's a narcissist or she has borderline personality disorder. Either way, she has issues that need to be solved.

Just remember that change comes when YOU decide it comes. It is wonderful to want to be a helpful husband but when your wife does not appreciate it in the least, that is an indication of a bigger problem.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> There is something wrong with your wife. She is using her anger to control you (and you allow it) and she is abusive to your kids. The world seems to revolve around her. Either she's a narcissist or she has borderline personality disorder. Either way, she has issues that need to be solved.
> 
> Just remember that change comes when YOU decide it comes. It is wonderful to want to be a helpful husband but when your wife does not appreciate it in the least, that is an indication of a bigger problem.


I agree with you and at the same time it's difficult to face it!! Because there are soo many good times and she is like I said soo loving except for when things go sour... I guess that's why i've let it go soo long since I didn't want to disrupt things when they are good and don't want to make them worst when the are bad..


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> hmm ok,, how would you feel in that case if your H was reading this? Would it make you think there is something wrong?? I guess there is but I don't like to confront things because firstly of anger also I don't like hurting peoples feelings...


 I don't understand this question. Please restate.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

strat_guy said:


> I didn't want to disrupt things when they are good and don't want to make them worst when the are bad..


This is verbatim exactly the words out of every single abuse book.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> I don't understand this question. Please restate.


Just wondering how you would feel if your spouse was reading this book? Would it make you wonder if something is wrong or just think that he's just reading a good book?? I never read so she would definitely think something is up.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> This is verbatim exactly the words out of every single abuse book.


man i never seriously thought of it that way but the word has come across my mind at some times though, emotional abuse... thats a hard realization


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If my husband was reading the book, I would laugh. It is I who should be reading it, not him!

Now, if he were to see ME reading it, I would hope it would scare him a little so he'd wonder if I was getting fed up with him. That wouldn't be a bad thing for your wife to go through.

And guess what? Being afraid to let your abusive partner seeing you read a book on abuse? Out of all the people I've helped over the years (a lot), at least THREE of the abuse victims told me that exact same thing. And they gave that as a reason not to read it: "Oh, I can't let him see me read THAT; he'll go ballistic!" Or: "I'll have to read it at work so he can't see it."

Do you see how pathetic that sounds? But you're doing the exact same thing - basing YOUR actions on what will set HER off. That is Abuse 101, my friend. 

Do you know that I listen for my husband's car? As soon as I hear it, I jump up from the bed and the computer and make it look like I've been cleaning house since I got home. Based on years and years of him saying 'did you get ANYTHING done while I was gone?' A statement as simple as that, no real physical/emotional abuse, but that one stupid sentence, and I literally jump up from the bed so he doesn't have a reason to criticize me. 

Believe me, I KNOW how powerful it all is. That's why I push people like you so hard to stop the cycle. Don't let that become your kids' future.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Now, as has been suggested, it's possible she's NPD or bipolar or something, and not straight out abusive. Not our place or yours to determine that. That's why I want you to go to a counselor and get professional help on this. They know how to fix these things with the least amount of collateral damage.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Do you know that I listen for my husband's car? As soon as I hear it, I jump up from the bed and the computer and make it look like I've been cleaning house since I got home. Based on years and years of him saying 'did you get ANYTHING done while I was gone?' A statement as simple as that, no real physical/emotional abuse, but that one stupid sentence, and I literally jump up from the bed so he doesn't have a reason to criticize me.
> 
> Believe me, I KNOW how powerful it all is. That's why I push people like you so hard to stop the cycle. Don't let that become your kids' future.


Holy canoly!! I do that too, when she is gone I feel bad for not doing anything so I make a purpose to at least get something done before sitting down to watch TV or whatever else I like doing just so she can't say "goodness what did you do all that time???" flip that around and I would never everrrrr dare say that to her even though I can come home to a house that is less than clean, I never say anything like that to her because i know she has the kids during the day and has alot of things to do just to yet 3 of them are in school til 2 - 3 pm... not like she never does anything though, she does the laundry every week and lots of other things but just to say that I would never bring it up ever!


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## Lovebug501 (Aug 30, 2011)

Wow... seriously? Why are you letting her push you around? Marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship.

I cannot believe you allow her to call your children names! They get enough of that from the bullies at school, I'm sure! Why would you allow your wife to bully you, but more importantly your children??

Would you be so passive if she reached up and slapped one of them across the face? She needs to grow up. 

You need to begin addressing this tonight. The moment you see her acting out like a 2 year old. If the parent whose child she watches knew she treated her own children this way, would she still have your wife watch that child? I wouldn't!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Do you do the housework, strat?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

Lovebug501 said:


> Wow... seriously? Why are you letting her push you around? Marriage is a partnership, not a dictatorship.
> 
> I cannot believe you allow her to call your children names! They get enough of that from the bullies at school, I'm sure! Why would you allow your wife to bully you, but more importantly your children??
> 
> ...


I am starting to be more aware of outbursts and will strart interrupting when it gets out of hand. This is something I need to work on myself to do. This is going to be difficult but I know it's important.

As for the babysitting child, she's like a princess, she doesn't get angry like that with her i suppose because she's not ours i guess but at the same time ours probably notice this and wonder why they are treated so differently....


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Do you do the housework, strat?


She does the laundry each week, other tasks are pretty much shared, i'll clean the floors and do dishes pick up toys ect which she also does... though I still feel like she does more than I do and she lets me know sometimes. 
I feel like I do my share since I work full time. She'll contest that because I have a call center job and I really don't do much so when I get home she doesn't think im as tired as she is but sometimes I am... I do realize she has a tougher job than I do and would never contradict that. But the yes or no answer to your question is yes but not all the housework all the time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Who cleans the toilets?
Who washes the shower, bathtubs, and sinks?
Who washes the windows?
Who dusts?
Who makes the beds?
Who mows the lawn or does other outside/car work?
Who shops for groceries?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Who cleans the toilets?
> Who washes the shower, bathtubs, and sinks?
> Who washes the windows?
> Who dusts?
> ...


Who washes the shower, bathtubs, and sinks? She does
Who washes the windows? She does
Who dusts? She does
Who makes the beds? She does, kids often make theirs and I will also make ours on occasion (note that when I do she always thanks me ans she is pleasantly surprised when she goes to make it and it's done)
Who mows the lawn or does other outside/car work? We both do this, I prefer doing it but she will sometimes ask to do it to give her some time to herself on the lawn tractor. She'll also surprise me sometimes with cleaning the van. 
Who shops for groceries? We often do this as a family although its easier for one of us to do it alone which she would be the candidate for as I don't really know everything we need other than breakfast foods. 
For the items I've indicated as only her I wouldn't say i've never done but most of the time it is her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, that's good. I was getting worried. Never mind. Carry on.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Ok, that's good. I was getting worried. Never mind. Carry on.


No problem,, I've got a digital copy of NMMNG and reading it right now... really good and Im finding alot of traits that I have.. although not all but I think im a nice guy


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Most men get that way if they have an overbearing wife. My DH's partner...jeez...his wife calls him at work at LEAST 25 times a day. He can't do this, he can't do that...I'd better leave or she'll get mad...I'm planning to find my copy of Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. and giving it to him so he'll learn to grow a spine.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Most men get that way if they have an overbearing wife. My DH's partner...jeez...his wife calls him at work at LEAST 25 times a day. He can't do this, he can't do that...I'd better leave or she'll get mad...I'm planning to find my copy of Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. and giving it to him so he'll learn to grow a spine.


Yeah she does that with me when im somewhere,, not as bad now that I have normal working hours but I used to work longer and unpredictable hrs and when I was late she would call and get mad at me for not being home or being done, that was hard on me and I ended up leaving that job, although there were alot of other factors, the main one was that I was not home enough and could not stick to a regular schedule...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

I should also add that she makes almost all the meals for which I make a purpose to thank her! I often call her superwoman because I know she handles alot regardless of how she handles it... like today she's been running around gettings things ready for a weekend camping trip... so with everything credit is still dur to her and I still do love her soo very much!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Superwoman? She's a SAHM. SAHMs have been doing all of that AND tending a farm AND fending off coyotes and other predators for thousands of years. And 99% of those years before the invention of electricity and appliances. Let's get a little perspective here.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Superwoman? She's a SAHM. SAHMs have been doing all of that AND tending a farm AND fending off coyotes and other predators for thousands of years. And 99% of those years before the invention of electricity and appliances. Let's get a little perspective here.


 sorry... pardon my ignorance but what does SAHM mean? I just figured out that DH meant divorced husband and first thought it meant Deceased husband... 
thanks.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Stay at home mom.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

DH usually means dear husband. As in DD21 - dear daughter who's 21.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Stay at home mom.


ahh ok duhhh, yeah I can see your point. It's nothing new, that's true. But I do beleive it's important for me to express appreciation for what she does aside from the behavior issues though right... when I call her superwoman she usually says "yeah right" and does appear to admit to having flaws but i still want her to know i appreciate the good!


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> DH usually means dear husband. As in DD21 - dear daughter who's 21.


ahh ok, thanks for the acronym lesson


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Nothing wrong with showing admiration and appreciation, as long as you don't do it so much they don't believe you.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Nothing wrong with showing admiration and appreciation, as long as you don't do it so much they don't believe you.


Ok that's a good point!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you close to her mom? Maybe you could go have a talk with her and ask her for some intel on why she does what she does. The more you understand her, the better you can protect yourself and move forward with strength.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Are you close to her mom? Maybe you could go have a talk with her and ask her for some intel on why she does what she does. The more you understand her, the better you can protect yourself and move forward with strength.


Not really that close to her, she'd probably tell her about the conversation and besides they are both the same. Her mom takes tantrums just like my wife does so more than likely I would get nowhere fast... 
It's kind of ironic, her mom has custody of her brothers kids (long and crazy story) and then her younger brother (about my age) lives with his mom as well. So when we're around them I see the same dynamics as in our home between our kids and my W. I do admit that it's more extreme with them (mother in law and bro in law living there), I can see the short fuses, unreasonable reactions to irritation by kids, over and beyond punishments ect ect all the same but a little more amplified...

Now when this happens and we're around its interesting to see how my wife reacts by saying that they are overracting or being unreasonable ect and all along she does this as well.
I talk about their reactions with her and stating that whatever happens did not make sense hoping she would catch a sense of how I feel about that in general but it doesn't seem to go in beyond that.

Another thing about MIN (mother in law : )) is that when my wife reacts unreasonably with me or the kids for something she has sometimes told her she wasn't being reasonable..

So with that said I don't think it would be productive to talk about this with her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's cool. 

What about a video camera? Set one up in the room she usually browbeats the kids in, and whenever you get ready to start talking to her about this or protecting your kids, you can pull it out and show her how she looks.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> That's cool.
> 
> What about a video camera? Set one up in the room she usually browbeats the kids in, and whenever you get ready to start talking to her about this or protecting your kids, you can pull it out and show her how she looks.


yeah that could be an option... thanks for the idea... !!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Makes me think of Sixth Sense. The videotape of the mom poisoning her daughter. The kid took it from where the girl told him it was, and gave it to the dad. 

(not that I think anything of the sort! just popped into my head)


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> Makes me think of Sixth Sense. The videotape of the mom poisoning her daughter. The kid took it from where the girl told him it was, and gave it to the dad.
> 
> (not that I think anything of the sort! just popped into my head)


Goodness can you imagine .. no I don't think so either but it was an interesting story i guess


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I'd expect her to act like an adult.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How's the reading going?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> How's the reading going?


very good, well I ready til about p50 at work friday night and am trying to apply some of the stuff ive learned so far like not holding back anger if something makes me mad... im noticing though that not much makes me mad  will keep on it though!!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What's going on with your relationship?


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> What's going on with your relationship?


Overall it has been good these past days... we had a great weekend camping which gave us some good family time. I made extra efforts to express my feelings when needed. It was pretty much a picture perfect weekend. Up to last night!! Something went really sour regarding intimacy... i'll post in the appropriate "--x" area tomorrow... in a nutshell, it was 3 weeks because of sickness, monthly ect and it was supposed to be THE night and she couldn't get in the mood... anyway i'll go in more detail there.. don't know what to do but I am going to tell her how I felt though..


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## hurtgirl34 (Oct 7, 2011)

Wow strat guy....we sound so very similar. 1st let me say...i pretty much agree with everyone else. You're W is acting childish. I hope that things get better for you ...u certainly deserve to be treated with more respect and appreciation.

2ndly...i wanted to say what's weird to me is that all of us that feel like doormats are only doing what is natural to us which seems like common courtesy or out of concern for others feelings. Within certain limits (not over-doing it) why is that a bad thing? I thought that was living by the golden rule....treat others as you would want to be treated.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's because you're not taking into account the Taker/Giver dynamic. Some people were born as Takers. It's just their personality - get what you deserve, you know? They honestly cannot fathom NOT taking what they want, and if you fail to GIVE them what they want, they will dump you and find someone who will. 

Sometimes they'll get connected and decide to stay with you if you change, man up. Other times they'll wash their hands of you and go find another 'nice' victim, another Giver.


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

hurtgirl34 said:


> Wow strat guy....we sound so very similar. 1st let me say...i pretty much agree with everyone else. You're W is acting childish. I hope that things get better for you ...u certainly deserve to be treated with more respect and appreciation.
> 
> 2ndly...i wanted to say what's weird to me is that all of us that feel like doormats are only doing what is natural to us which seems like common courtesy or out of concern for others feelings. Within certain limits (not over-doing it) why is that a bad thing? I thought that was living by the golden rule....treat others as you would want to be treated.


Thanks! It's nice to know some ppl are also going through similar situations and I agree with what you say that it's more natural for me to accept and leave things go over me rather than jumping at every situation I can. I think that's called "longsuffering" but I can also see that I need to find the other end of the spectrum once in a while otherwise im not as healthy as I'd think I am...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

turnera said:


> That's because you're not taking into account the Taker/Giver dynamic. Some people were born as Takers. It's just their personality - get what you deserve, you know? They honestly cannot fathom NOT taking what they want, and if you fail to GIVE them what they want, they will dump you and find someone who will.
> 
> Sometimes they'll get connected and decide to stay with you if you change, man up. Other times they'll wash their hands of you and go find another 'nice' victim, another Giver.


sometimes I feel like I wished she would just leave but I quickly leave those feelings behind as I love her and our family too much and I would really miss having what we do have...

I am definitely a giver, I am going to try and change that a little and see what it does...


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## strat_guy (Sep 16, 2011)

So here's the link to the thread about our intimacy issues over the weekend if ya'll want to weigh in: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/32953-gone-sour-sorry-if-tmi.html#post448258


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