# oral test



## used2be (May 1, 2012)

Me and my wife have been married 9yrs, she has hangs ups about oral basically someone who she didn't like shoved their penis in her mouth when she was a teen, she on the other hand loves to recieve oral but not really into giving, had multiple talks about how much i enjoy this and how loved it makes me feel and how i would never disrespect her in anyway. So for about 3 yrs straight i would give her oral since clitoral stimulation is the only way she has O, but since she never returns the favor even for foreplay. Well for the past 4 months i have not given her oral, she still has O by using the tip of my penis to masterbate. My question is am i going at this the right way? She loves oral and has told me how much she loves it. Can i expect oral in my future? Tell me ur thoughts on my plan good or bad?
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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

our problem is eerily similar. my wife was raped in her late teens and he did the same thing to her. unfortunately he gave my life a life sentence. it is now 32 years later and she cannot let go. this has presented the same problem as you, she loves oral, but forget about reciprocating. and even worse we have sex the same way everytime.


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## wantingmore01 (Apr 25, 2012)

Sadly, traumatic events can cause full blown PTSD or PTSD-like syndromes. Sounds, smells, acts can cause a range of symptoms from uncomfortable feelings to vivid flashbacks. Actually doing the act may retraumatize. Try to remain compassionate and perhaps IC or sex therapy would help. Best of luck to you and your wives...


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

Was she forced to have sex and oral sex, or just oral sex as a teen? 

Oral sex is a very vulnerable position where a woman has to make herself 100% submissive to her husband, so I guess I can understand how a woman put in that situation against her will would tell herself, "NEVER AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT".

If she was forced to oral and have sex though, and she got over the sex part (also vulnerable), it seems like she is picking and choosing what she wants to do and doesn't want to do. Not fair IMO.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

I went through sexual abuse as a child,,, so I have "triggers" when my H would want to just be driving down the road and expect me to let him "finger" me, and grab my breasts... Wasn't happening.... 

Also if we are just sitting around and he would want me to "get him hard" (by hand),,

I hope she is getting IC, if not try to talk her into it.... But FOR HER!!! Not for you hoping she gets "over it" so you can get oral from her. 

Just don't get aggravated, accusing her of making you "pay for her past".....this will just make her feel "responsible" for her abuse. My H has done this and now I'm going through therapy.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

In my case, my ex-wife was raped when she was a teenager by her cousin. She never disclosed this to me before, during and after our marriage. It became an important factor, according to her therapist, in her choice to have an affair.

I'm sorry but *IF* there was a deliberate non-disclosure of your past sexual abuse to your future husband, then he is indeed paying for your past.


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

Aristotle said:


> Was she forced to have sex and oral sex, or just oral sex as a teen?
> 
> Oral sex is a very vulnerable position where a woman has to make herself 100% submissive to her husband, so I guess I can understand how a woman put in that situation against her will would tell herself, "NEVER AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT".
> 
> If she was forced to oral and have sex though, and she got over the sex part (also vulnerable), it seems like she is picking and choosing what she wants to do and doesn't want to do. Not fair IMO.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't think your plan is going to work. Surely she's questioned why you stopped giving her oral? I can't imagine my husband withholding something from me as some tit-for-tat game if I had a sordid history that he knew about.

She needs therapy.

There are better ways to make her understand how important this is to you. Tell her, in a non-sexual situation, what you want and suggest marraige counseling to follow through. From there she should also seek her own IC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

my wife was forced into oral sex. my wife is my soulmate and i love her more than i miss the oral sex. she is a quiet, compassiona'tte, and loving wife. i did not meet her until i was 39 years of age. she has never had any therapy for this, though i have her to do so. last night was the first time i asked her to discuss our sex life, of course she wanted no part of it. sex with her without oral is great, but having sex the same way for 24 years, she does not or does not understand i need some variation. if it was up to her, witch it kinda is, it would continue until "death do us part". which makes think she really dislikes all sex in general. it is such a tough subject to tlk to her sbout brcause of course she says "oh, so sex has sucked since day 1" which is not true. she uses this for defense so she can make the discussion end. i know i am rambling, but boy is hard to talk to her about sex


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## Aristotle (Apr 4, 2012)

akaboston said:


> my wife was forced into oral sex. my wife is my soulmate and i love her more than i miss the oral sex. she is a quiet, compassiona'tte, and loving wife. i did not meet her until i was 39 years of age. she has never had any therapy for this, though i have her to do so. last night was the first time i asked her to discuss our sex life, of course she wanted no part of it. sex with her without oral is great, but having sex the same way for 24 years, she does not or does not understand i need some variation. if it was up to her, witch it kinda is, it would continue until "death do us part". which makes think she really dislikes all sex in general. it is such a tough subject to tlk to her sbout brcause of course she says "oh, so sex has sucked since day 1" which is not true. she uses this for defense so she can make the discussion end. i know i am rambling, but boy is hard to talk to her about sex


If a woman sees oral sex as something abusive and not "intimate" because of things she was forced to do, just leave it alone. Having her do this for you, may make her think of you as the same type of evil that forced her to do it.


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## Numb in Ohio (Oct 31, 2011)

morituri said:


> In my case, my ex-wife was raped when she was a teenager by her cousin. She never disclosed this to me before, during and after our marriage. It became an important factor, according to her therapist, in her choice to have an affair.
> 
> I'm sorry but *IF* there was a deliberate non-disclosure of your past sexual abuse to your future husband, then he is indeed paying for your past.



I agree *IF* the abused does not disclose the abuse to your partner. I did disclose early in our relationship so he could understand ( which he didn't).... He actually turned the whole situation around to be about him...how I must of done things with other people that I now wouldn't do with him.. as if I enjoyed the abuse and made me feel at fault... I have dealt with 8 years of negative comments about it... and NOW that his EA's were exposed , he is ashamed about doing all this to me? Saying all the hurtful things to me... that's what took him to realize how much he verbally abused me?...making it about him AGAIN!! He couldn't of seen or heard how much this hurt me until he got caught cheating???

So I guess maybe I'm a little one sided about the issue... not wanting to sound argumentative...


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

Numb in Ohio said:


> I went through sexual abuse as a child,,, so I have "triggers" when my H would want to just be driving down the road and expect me to let him "finger" me, and grab my breasts... Wasn't happening....
> 
> Also if we are just sitting around and he would want me to "get him hard" (by hand),,
> 
> ...


:iagree: I have worked through my sexual abuse history enough so that oral no longer traumatizes me. I still don't like being ordered to do sexual things or being pressured. Pap smears are very difficult and scary. 

If my husband was not sensitive to my issues, we would not have such a great sex life. His gentle attitude and sensitivity have made me feel safe enough to explore sex acts which I never shared with any other man. My husband is a passionate and tender lover. 

Your wife cannot expect to receive oral if she is not making an attempt to work through her sexual hangups.


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## used2be (May 1, 2012)

just to clear some stuff up, the abuse was only oral sex, when dating she was the one who initiated oral sex with me, only after we were married did she tell me about the abuse. When we talk about the oral sex she says she understands how much i enjoy it but she cant get over the pre-cum taste, only after we talk about it will she give me oral sex but i always feel like an ass since i know that we have to have THE TALK and then she will give me oral. She has in the past just come home and started to give me oral only because she was wanting sex it was never to complition. I have trouble believing that she was abused since she sometimes will give oral with out me asking but other times she blames it on the abuse. She also has a hard time opening up to sex, for her enjoyment, when she is sober, only when she has a few drinks will she get wild in the bed. Any thoughts?
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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

I would suggest counselling.

Either she has some sex abuse issues .... (sometimes she feels safe enough to do it, but not when you "ask" and I kinda understand that) and you not believing her isn't going to help, so go to counselling to learn more about it. Having to have a few drinks speaks loudly to her not feeling "comfortable' with you sexually. 

Or the problem is outside the bedroom, so go to counselling and maybe you can find out what it is.


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

if i could have your sex life, i would never ask for any thing else of my wife!!! how about having sex 20 times and have your prick in contact with your wifes hands for a total of 3 minutes(being liberal). one problem we may be having, is that we love each other so much there is no chance of us going in other directions. even if it was a bluff she would laugh as would i. so i am in a box with no doors, so i will have to be happy with what i don't get, sadly for me and sadly for my wife because she wishes she did not have this hang up.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sexual abuse and assult appears to be very common. I have head that 25 - 40% of woman have experienced one or the other. It is umfortunate that the problem is not approached from the front end - prosecution of the men who assult and long prison time. Right now, perpetrators are almost assured of getting away with this crime. 

With such laxity in the law and the attitude in society, men and women suffer. Those young girls who are assulted will be someone's wife. As far as revealing assulted to a potential partner - I can understand why a survivor would want to forget and just move on. It is a mistake but it is human. Besides, our culture treats sexual assault as if it is no big deal. is it surprising that women try to do the same? 

I abhore the attitude that a woman should be better than men. First, enduring the assault, , then the complacency and then the punishment for being assaulted. All of that and the expectation by a potential mate that she tell when she wants to get married and have children. Men expect to avoid the consequences of sexual assault, but why should they. Why should one half of society bear the burden of what is so wrong? 

I am sorry for the effect on the personal lives of men who are married to woman who have been assaulted but she has had to battle pain alone when she should have been helped. men ignore the problem until it affects them and then they are angry with the woman for not telling them so that they can avoid the problem. But why should the survivors take all of the pain? It a societal problem and men and woman need to solve it .

Innocent Men are no more at fault than innocent woman but we both are affected because that is how life is. Solve the problem with prevention and prosecution. If not, then expect to deal with it in marriage.
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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

thank for your thoughts,it really helps to hear a womens perspective. no question the mean and rotten men of this world ruin so many lives (it's a life sentence for alot of woman including my wife). not only do the perpatrators ruin that life, but also her future husbands life. i love my wife so much more than sex, that even though i am unhappy with alot of things in bed, i feel so horrible for what happened to her. i have fantasized about the whole scene of her assault so much it is as if i were there. there is only one question she will never divulge, the name of the raper. she knows i would go balistic on him. i met my wife by complete luck. now i am not so sure(she has always been sure) that a higher being put us in that place in time on purpose. anyways i know i am rambling, but this is the first time in 25 years of marriage i have had a forum to discuss this and god it is a blessing. thank u and every one for everything.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Sadly, I too am in the same boat as the OP any many of the men on here.

My wife of nearly 20 years has never given me oral or indeed been anywhere my 'bits' with her mouth. Yet she loves me going down on her! I have to admit that I enjoy it too....not the taste (sorry!!) etc but simply because she was clearly really enjoying it and it gave me a real buzz knowing how much pleasure she was getting from what I was doing to/for her.

Over the years we've had conversations...I've told her how much it would mean to me if she reciprocated....I could even wear a condom etc etc...she just refuses point blank. No explanation etc nothing. Simply 'Not over my dead body...never'.

I thought that maybe she had been abused or something had happened before we met.
We went to general marriage counselling both on our own and together. I mentioned my suspicions to the counsellor...response later came back...'No...I don't think there are any hidden issues...or if there are she is bloody good at burying them'...
My wife simply stopped going to MC when the subject of sex within marriage came up. I still go though.

Like the OP, I stopped giving my wife oral about a year ago....Not once has she mentioned it or asked why I've stopped. 
I suspect because she knows why...and would rather simply miss out on something she loves than even try to do something that she knows her husband would love her to do.

Call it point scoring or whatever....marriage is all about looking after each other, give and take etc. It takes two to tango.

I'm not a mug.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I'm in the Dan Savage Club -- you can't expect to get it if you don't give it.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Cuts both ways....


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

that's a pretty broad statement. so does that mean a rape victim is no different than a non rape victim?


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## used2be (May 1, 2012)

just as akaboston i too put myself in her shoe, but i know who did this to her. Also she being the only onee i have ever told but i was molested as a child, never been to a councler to talk about it but i feel like it would do no good i just deal with that burden alone and let no one know about what happen to this day my parents dont even know even though it was a family member who did this to me. So i can see where some guys wont or cant see how it affects women but i can feel her pain i guess i just can hind it better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Riven (May 4, 2012)

"Oral sex is a very vulnerable position where a woman has to make herself 100% submissive to her husband, so I guess I can understand how a woman put in that situation against her will would tell herself, "NEVER AGAIN, NO MATTER WHAT"."

I disagree with this Aristotle, I used to advert, but I think of it now as a power position. The man is being submissive by letting me put his penis in my mouth, I have sharp teeth, and I bite. He is putting himself as being vulnerable.

I can't speak for all women, but I can tell you about myself. I despised oral until I got into nursing school basically. I don't have a penis, and it's rude to stare at people right? I don't have a penis to look at, it play with, I don't know what a penis likes or dislikes. A penis is a foreign object to most women. We don't know how to treat it, or what to do with it. ( I'm not saying it's not this way for guys, but what I'm saying is girls are taught to cross their legs and be lady like, we don't let other people look at our privates, and we don't be going around looking at boys penises either because that's bad and naughty). We don't understand the power of controlling the penis, and by this I mean "***** whipped". We don't realize what power we have over men. We think all they want is to have sex with us. The world would be a better place if parents or someone taught true sex education, but the truth is, most people are "self taught" through trial and error. How many guys can say they knew exactly what to do for a girl without practice? And when we are brought up in a way that being sexual is dirty... that only adds to it.

So to the OP, if you wife does occasionally give you oral, do you really, really reinforce how much you like it? Do you moan while she does it? Do you tell her she looks sexy while she does it? Let her know that she has power over you when she does it? Let it empower her, let it make HER feel sexy. Can you do that in one night? No. One thing that turns me on and empowers my sexy side is how I can make my husband's **** hard. It can be sitting there just chilling, but I start touching or licking and WHAM... yea, I did that. Just my take. If it truly is a repression due to trauma, then she does need to see a counselor. If she does it when you have "the talk" with her, it's possible that she either does it because she loves you and wants to make you happy, or she doesn't really like doing it and is just getting out of it. You said something about taste, get a cream or something to help cover the taste.


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

raven, everything you said was dead on. except for one thing, my beautiful soulmate does not give me any oral!!! thanks for the thread it was the best one so far for my situation. hopefully we can keep in touch. if i gave you my email would you like to talk and maybe you can help me and my wife with this situation?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

AK there is one thing you need to consider. You are committed to your wife, you are here asking questions about making life better for you both. My question is what effort is your wife exerting that matches your own? 

What happened to her is horrible but what happens in her life now is under her control. She is letting the [email protected] who raped her to win. She is also not working as hard as you to make life better. She owes that to you at lest if not to herself. 

I don't know how you would do the but I think that you must know that she does have a responsibility to thriumpt over this. Maybe your conviction will help her do the work to heal. 

I think it is not productive to approach the problem from the standpoint of your sexual dissatisfaction. Perhaps from the standpoint of a happy marriage for you both. If you are not happy then you are both not happy. 

You are the good guy, why should you suffer when work on the part of the woman who says she loves you would make you happy?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have read this bj puts a woman in a position of power. That is bs - woman are told that to convince them that it is not degrading. I don't think there are many women who believe there is any power to giving a bj. 

If the balance of power were in the woman's favor, why are so many men able to put their penis in the mouth of an unwilling woman? 

If women really exerted the power the power of injury if they were not willing men would never put such a vulnerable part of their anatomy into an area the could easily be used against them. 

Even though a woman could easily injure a man, men still coerce or force women to use their mouths. That is not power. I have never heard of a woman who bit down when she was being forced. To me that means that woman care much more about injuring a man who is assaulting them than the man cares about injuring her. 

If women were really in power no man would come near a woman's mouth unless expressly invited. There would be no feeling of entitlement, no "even if she does not like it she should do it". That would be too dangerous.


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## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

Well put Catherine602  

I was orally raped as a teen-and to this day I can't give my partner oral right to the end. I used to *love* giving it before but that one boyfriend made oral feel dirty and cheap(like I'm a fck'n hoor) and I've never felt the same towards it again.

Thankfully my partner never pushed it on me-my question is,with all the things you can do in bed,why do guys get so hung up on oral?

Why when we suggest women get counselling for their abuse,we aren't asking guys to get counselling for their hang up on wanting it so badly? Even if I got counselling to deal with the abuse, I know for a fact I still wouldn't change my desire to give it. The damage has been done. Don't you have better things to focus on? Seriously?!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

DanglingDaisy said:


> Well put Catherine602
> 
> Why when we suggest women get counselling for their abuse,we aren't asking guys to get counselling for their hang up on wanting it so badly? Even if I got counselling to deal with the abuse, I know for a fact I still wouldn't change my desire to give it. The damage has been done. Don't you have better things to focus on? Seriously?!


I think that men (well, me anyway) think that oral is a normal part of sex that most other guys are getting. If your girl refuses, that means that #1 you're missing out and #2 she doesn't love you as much or isn't into you as much as the guys who are getting it. There are a million other sexual things that I don't get hung up on. Things that are outside of the norm. I don't really need those, although I wouldn't turn them down.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

I totally agree with not letting abusers win. Victims find power in becoming survivors.

I know a woman who was sexually assaulted a few years ago. She won't leave her house unless someone is with her. She is allowing the rape to keep her in a prison of fear-all she does is collect disability and hide in her house. :slap: I find her choice to be a very sad cop-out, especially for such a young woman. Rather than fight the difficult battle of healing, this woman chooses to indulge in the victim mentality. What a waste!

Neither of the men who violated me will steal any more joy from my life! I am just too strong willed to become a victim of my circumstances.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Catherine, you are of course entitled to your opinion, but I find giving a blow job a complete position of power.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

I see oral sex (both ways) as being in the driver's seat.

Whoever's delivering the goods has their "hands on the wheel".


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## DanglingDaisy (Mar 26, 2012)

Then by all means Lamaga BJ to your heart's content :smthumbup:

WorkingOnMe- I'm sorry but your comment made me laugh!

_If your girl refuses, that means that #1 you're missing out and #2 she doesn't love you as much or isn't into you as much as the guys who are getting it._

#1 - You poor thing! 

#2 - You're seriously going to compare love with whether your partner gives you BJ's?! Hmmm, guess my guy doesn't love me either since he rarely gives me oral :scratchhead: 

I've read quite a few "oral sex" debates from guys. It always seems to come down to she should just do it!! STOMP STOMP STOMP.  Selfish and immature. 

I have a suggestion for guys with this predicament-practise getting really limbor and you can give yourself a BJ-problem solved! :rofl:

Or divorce your wife-since OBVIOUSLY she doesn't love you enuff.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I see that hit a little close to home.


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## stedfin (Apr 14, 2012)

used2be said:


> Can i expect oral in my future? Tell me ur thoughts on my plan good or bad?


Yes there's oral in your future, only not from her.

The only thing I can suggest is your plan (witholding oral from her) won't work and the only thing that might is if you threaten to get it elsewhere if she won't do it to you.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes as you can see the subject of bj does "hit close to home" for some men and women. Some reactions are very strong. Given the experience of some women it is not surprising. 

I don't think that the young woman who was raped should be chastised for hiding out. Stray dogs get more sympathy than woman who are assaulted. This young woman will not recover from this trauma on her own. 

She needs intervention. It is interesting that she is expected to just get over it all on her own. I am more upset at the appearance of sitting around tisk- tisking and not doing something to intervene. Why is that?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

stedfin said:


> Yes there's oral in your future, only not from her.
> 
> The only thing I can suggest is your plan (witholding oral from her) won't work and the only thing that might is if you threaten to get it elsewhere if she won't do it to you.


This will work. I guess this is consistent with an emotional feeling eminating from getting a bj from his wife? 

Come on! Really? You know what this says to me? Bj have nothing to do with love - it has all to do with a sense of entitlement for them. It says that for a man who thinks like this, regards bj as cheap and any woman will do. Why would a wife want to be an interchangeable mouth for a man who does not appreciate her? 

This is one of the careless things some men say that shapes a woman's attitude towards bj. Please don't wonder why woman are so reticent about this act - here is your answer. Some amount of resentment would be natural don't you think? 

Bj are more important than everything that a woman does in a relationship. Moreover, some men would risk his family, and hurting hurt his wife for a bj. That makes them a cheap commodity. 

She might not want to lower herself to perform a service. If she had any self respect she would never give him one again and call his bluff about cheating or leaving.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> This will work. I guess this is consistent with an emotional feeling eminating from getting a bj from his wife?
> 
> Come on! Really? You know what this says to me? Bj have nothing to do with love - it has all to do with a sense of entitlement for them. It says that for a man who thinks like this, bj are cheap and any woman will do. Why would a wife want to be an interchangeable mouth for a man who does not appreciate her?
> 
> ...


what it say is shes a selfish bi*ch. and she gets it but won't give back


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Chilly. That is a bit cold.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Catherine has said this many times. And really I respect her words and her well thought out argument. And I agree with many of the things she writes, even though I'm sometimes surprised at myself for it. But I think she misses that these statements and arguments from men come from a very dark and desperate place. I realize that my own words sound like I have a sense of entitlement. I think the 22 years I've stayed without them will speak for itself on that. I don't want them from anybody else. The mouth isn't interchangeable for me. But I do feel less loved without them and there's nothing I can do about that. It proves to me that she's not that into me. I've ready plenty on here about women who refused them to an ex but provide them to their husband. I think that's the norm and I'm convinced that if my wife was single and found a new guy that she was actually in to that she would do this for him.

That doesn't mean that I'm entitled or that I feel entitled. It just means that I feel less loved.

Oh, and I should add that I've not bluffed that I'd get them elsewhere or leave. I might leave because I don't feel loved, but bj's are just one small piece of that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Working. I don't really think that bj are disconnected from love. I don't think that women need to show their man love by giving them. There are many ways to show love. 

The majority of things that I have heard man say about bi and what I have heard they do, seems to indicate that bj are intensely pleasurable and because of that men want them. Some coerce, some require them to consider a woman as gf or wife material. 

What is real is that women are not worthy of love unless they are prepared to give enthusiastic bj. The bj is the entry ticket, it's the payment for a relationship. That not love, it is currency. 

Actions and words are congruent in this case. The only time I have read the love and acceptance stuff is when the conversation turns to trying to convince some women to do it when she does not want. 

This is the way I think of giving to my husband. I love him and I appreciate that in order for me to be satisfied, he has to control his natural ability to have an orgasm quickly. I like to think that I can give him something that is all about his relaxation. 

He needs to have no thought about control, just enjoy. It is not cheap to me, my husband is worth more than that and I know he thinks more of me. 

I hope he does not think that one single sex act is the best way I can show my love. I hope the sentiment that accompanies the bj and runs throught everything makes him feel loved. 

I think saying that bj is needed to feel loved may mean that there is no appreciation, or respect for the wife. Moreover saying that cheating is the best way of getting one says loud and clear that the love talk is a ruse to get an orgasm. 


It is part of a loving relationship. It is not the most important aspect. If it were then every thing else that a woman does is not appreciated. I am certain that is not true for most men. 

Words are powerful. Saying it is about love and then threatening to cheat or calling woman names are not words of love. Women who are not sure about the act are not more inclined to partake after reading this stuff.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

I'm sure there are women who feel unloved being guilted into doing something that causes them flashbacks of past abuse as well. Someone pointed out, just because you go through therapy, triggers can always set someone off, not everyone reacts the same to abuse. I can see both sides of it. I was once taken advantage of as a teen by a boyfriend, I had falled asleep watching tv, and woke up to him sticking his penis in my mouth. I tried moving away, and he grabbed me by my hair and forcefully use my mouth. I would of bit him, but I didn't want to be hurt, so I let him finish, spit it out on his couch and left. I wasn't traumatized by it, but I do have issues with oral being too forceful. Meh, whatever.


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## MrsKy (May 5, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Yes as you can see the subject of bj does "hit close to home" for some men and women. Some reactions are very strong. Given the experience of some women it is not surprising.
> 
> I don't think that the young woman who was raped should be chastised for hiding out. Stray dogs get more sympathy than woman who are assaulted. This young woman will not recover from this trauma on her own.
> 
> She needs intervention. It is interesting that she is expected to just get over it all on her own. I am more upset at the appearance of sitting around tisk- tisking and not doing something to intervene. Why is that?


Nobody can help someone who does not want to help herself. 

Other people can only do so much! I am not going to waste any more energy or breath on someone who is comfortable hiding away and giving power to a rapist forever. 

She refuses to attend therapy, even though she has the loving support of her husband and her family of origin, along with her very few friends who visit. Nobody recovers effectively from abuse on her own-I certainly didn't! I knew there was nothing to be gained from becoming a victim of my circumstances. I went into therapy when my self destructive behaviors nearly killed me and I had NO SUPPORT from the dysfunctional family I came from.

This woman always talks about how much she loves "getting money to sit at home." That statement alone shows me that the woman we are speaking of is comfortable with laziness. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for someone who chooses to wallow in self pity rather than trying to take personal responsibility and improve her life. I would be much more compassionate if this lady actually tried to heal herself. 

Intervention has been a waste of time because she won't enter treatment. I can't drag her to a therapist-she has to want to heal. Therapy is not a cure-all, but it can help someone deal with trauma and flashbacks.

Receiving oral sex is important to me. When I was single, I refused to sleep with any man who was not into that act. I would feel less loved if my husband wouldn't go down on me, because he knows how important receiving oral is in my eyes. Placing importance on a certain sexual act is not wrong or dirty. It's just that the way some people approach their preferences is very coercive and cruel. I don't support that. Nobody should ever expect a sex act that they won't give. That is selfish no matter what the reason is.

I refused anal to an ex because he wouldn't stop pressuring me. His insistence felt very controlling and dismissive of my right to decline. I have tried anal with my husband because I feel safe with him and he has NEVER pressured me for anything in bed.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Catherine has said this many times. And really I respect her words and her well thought out argument. And I agree with many of the things she writes, even though I'm sometimes surprised at myself for it. But I think she misses that these statements and arguments from men come from a very dark and desperate place. I realize that my own words sound like I have a sense of entitlement. I think the 22 years I've stayed without them will speak for itself on that. I don't want them from anybody else. The mouth isn't interchangeable for me. But I do feel less loved without them and there's nothing I can do about that. It proves to me that she's not that into me. I've ready plenty on here about women who refused them to an ex but provide them to their husband. I think that's the norm and I'm convinced that if my wife was single and found a new guy that she was actually in to that she would do this for him.
> 
> That doesn't mean that I'm entitled or that I feel entitled. It just means that I feel less loved.
> 
> Oh, and I should add that I've not bluffed that I'd get them elsewhere or leave. I might leave because I don't feel loved, but bj's are just one small piece of that.


Have you tried talking to your wife and leaving out all reference to sex or bj? 

It might help to talk about your unhappiness with the relationship. That is what is ultimately the problem. Make it about both of you. Find out what is wrong, what is making her unhappy. Let her know how unhappy you are. 

I don't mean to minimize your feelings, they are genuine and certainly justified. What I am saying is that if you approach her and lead with bj, you may lose her attention before you get past the 2nd sentence. 

Unfortunately, when men have "the talk" about sex, their partner may tune them out. This happens if the woman does not understand that sex is an expression of love for a man. But if you use her language to get her attention and patience you may make some headway. 

She may think that you are concerned with yourself and about sex but not her or your relationship. That is not true so don't let it seem that way. 

Talk about the future. What do you see for you both? Can you see yourself living in the state of unhappiness for a decade or two? Be honest, only tell her what you are willing to carry out. 

If you were both happy and giving freely to each other, oral sex would be no deal. I think it becomes a big deal when, for instance, the giver feels that she is taken for granted, or there is unresolved conflict or she loses respect for her partner.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Further.....
If a husband does his 'bit' in the house, tells his wife she looks good, gives her the massages etc...is a true 'team player' in the marriage....
....has reasonable sexual expectations - ie. sex 2-3 times a week - that includes both giving and receiving oral sex.....

BUT is left sexually unsatisfied and unfulfilled, then he is far more likely to 'wander'. That includes not getting what all men LOVE.... oral!

If you are thirsty and someone offers you a drink.....?


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## used2be (May 1, 2012)

ok the my whole reasoning behind starting this thread was to find out if me holding oral sex from my wife would help me recieve oral sex like I said in an earlier post when we were dating she was the one who initiated oral sex with me, but now that we are married and she has told me about her past with the abuse I dont get and oral sex but she loves to recieve oral sex. For the longest time it seemed as the only way for her to have O while we were having sex, why after I talk to her about how much I love and enjoy it is she willing to do this for me? In the past she has asked me to give her oral and I do it without question, if I ask then it's like Im asking for the world on a platter. but thats just it when she ask something of me sexually I don't question it, I do it CAUSE I LOVE HER, but when I ask something sexual of her then it's like there are unlimited reasons not to. I have never asked her to do something that would cause pain or anything like that. Basically if I ask for it, it's not going to happen, if she ask for it, it better happen and if it don't something's wrong. We have vannilla sex all the time, it's scheduled, the same moves over and over, foreplay has become something for her enjoyment and not for me, never, I touch her body, without question, explore her, but she never touchs me. like I said foreplay is something for her, in bed I touch her body, kiss her body, all while she lays there and when she's ready to go thats it she's ready for sex, not to touch me or warm me up. I have alot of issue's here and have started to build resentment for the things she is not willing to do for me hell she wont even give me a hand-job. But from the way it sound by everyone's post I should just settle for what I have and nevermind what I want and it should always be about the woman in the relationship.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Hi Chilly. That is a bit cold.


Catherine,

while a can understand how you describe how some women feel about it I just wanted to let you know how some men feel about being generious in the sex department and then being with someone who is selfish in the sex department.


by now everyone on this board knows that men and women think differently. and their should be effort on both parts to try to meet eachothers needs.

you bring up the thought of it being currancy to being in a happy marriage and thats an oversimplication. I could make the argument that everyone has a certine currency in regards to what they find to make them happy in marriage.

women might say that they want a stable dependable man who is going to suport them as they have children as their currency and a man might say I need my wife to show some desire to be a good lover and lets face it if you desire a good BJ once in a while then they should want to do that because they want you to feel happy and desired. Just like a husband should make an effort to meet all the needs of a wife. 

the problem arises when their is an imbalance.

lets take birthday presents for example ....I could careless about recieving presents but my wife is all about presents she is generious about putting in effort to think of a present that you would want.I on the other hand have to go outside my comfort zone and try my best to do the same. I am sure that if I said hey baby I just could careless about exchanging gifts and started being selfish and ignored her need to feel loved by not putting thought into her gifts. that she would stop buying me gifts and the resentment would build after awhile and the relationship would slowly slide into a loveless marriage.

so in my opinion you got to give to get.If your the only one giving then eventually resentment builds. and we all know the resentment is a marriage killer.

unfortunatly despite what anyone thinks the world is a tit for tat place. and it would behove everyone to try and play the tit for tat game.

I would also like to point out in a long term relationship that sex can become boring if no effort to keep things exciting is put forth variety is the spice of life. just like in buying presents if you bought the same thing everytime how exciting would recieving presents be?


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Used2be - In a nutshell...IMO even if you no longer give your wife oral, it won't change her.
She will simply accept the 'deal' because her aversion to giving you oral is greater than her desire to receive oral from you.

Sorry....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

7737 said:


> Further.....
> If a husband does his 'bit' in the house, tells his wife she looks good, gives her the massages etc...is a true 'team player' in the marriage....
> ....has reasonable sexual expectations - ie. sex 2-3 times a week - that includes both giving and receiving oral sex.....
> 
> ...


You die if you don't drink water, you won't die if you don't get a bj. If a man is having sex 3 times a week and still contemplates cheating then a is a service. 

That is what you are saying right? You don't need to go out looking for a mouth, you have a convenient service worker right in reach, your wife. 

You understand what you are saying poisons the attitude of women towards bj, don't you? It is difficult to believe that bj have anything to do with love when a woman hears this stuff. 

The threat to cheat is so common but has not seemed to coerce woman to give them. It is still a problem. Why do you think that is so? 

What you are saying is that a bj is more important than humiliating your wife and the stability of your children. Do you think that a woman would put herself in a position of servicing her husband just to pay him off for fidelity? Why not get divorced and get all the bj you want. At lest be honest about what you are. 

BTW, does that work in your relationship? Maybe you have the answer to the bj dilemma. Please give details of your methods of dealing with female reluctance. 

I assume you get your wife to give you bj on demand? What do your say? "Give me a bj or I will get one someplace else" And your wife gives you an enthusiastic bj and you are actually able to accept it and enjoy it? 

How is it possible? You would have to think of her in a service capacity. Certainly you don't view her with any love or concern. 

I really don't think you should even be in a relationship. You need to go to prostitutes and/or have pick up woman in clubs and get bj in an alley with them. That would at lest put woman where you want them - things for your pleasure.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Ok, I'm a bit thick headed and I'm embarrassed to admit that it took me 20 years to figure this out. I never asked because I assumed that the answer would be no....and without the 2 lemon drop martinis my wife had last night the answer probably still would have been no. But with the help of a little liquid courage I "discovered" last night the way to prolong a bj!!! It's called 69. Maybe you've heard of it....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Chilly I think you are right. There is nothing negative about bj, just like all of sexual activity. Why should bj be excluded from the repertoire of sexual activity? It should not be. 

I think it is a way of letting a loving good man have something that partnered sex does not give him, a chance to enjoy with our thinking of anything else. 

But Chilly, I don't think many women think that way. They hear mostly negative messages, are exposed to coercion and men who care nothing for them just the potential bj they can get a bj out of them. This sets up a very negative dynamic. 

This is what men are dealing with. If men accepted the fact that a negativity exist because of the attitude of many men, they would do everything possible to be more respectful.

If a husband knew what he was dealing with, he would be careful not to convey the feeling that a bj was payment for what he brings to a relationship. It mirrors the idea that women are worth very little to men unless they are providing orgasms. 

If a women feels that giving them is payment for fidelity, or that she is owes her man an extra orgasm, she is not likely to want to give. 

Another impediment is that a woman is expected to give a bj with no foreplay and no expectation of satisfaction for herself. He wants a bj and she is expected to give it. 

Things go from sexually neutral to hot in a few seconds, hot for him, not her. Can you see the problem. If men who expect this understood female sexuality, hopefully they would not do it. 

But this is how bj are done by many if not the majority of couples. Would men give a oral sex to their wives without getting satisfied themselves? No, that is not the way woman get oral sex. 

He gives her and she finishes by giving him a bj? It is an equal exchange in the context of a loving relationship. She does not see it as a payoff for the relationship. 

The average woman with a healthy ego does not think she owes her husband bj. She thinks that what she brings to a relationship is equal to her husband. Anger, frustration and threats of cheating over not getting them may be seen as a lack of appreciation for her and confirmation that it's all about sex. 

Btw men are not the only ones that cheat. Woman are at a level almost equal to men. A threat to cheat may be seen as giving her the right to do the same if she is not satisfied. Be careful what you say.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Ok, I'm a bit thick headed and I'm embarrassed to admit that it took me 20 years to figure this out. I never asked because I assumed that the answer would be no....and without the 2 lemon drop martinis my wife had last night the answer probably still would have been no. But with the help of a little liquid courage I "discovered" last night the way to prolong a bj!!! It's called 69. Maybe you've heard of it....


Working, I posted while you were posting so I did not see this. I agree with you.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Working. I don't really think that bj are disconnected from love. I don't think that women need to show their man love by giving them. There are many ways to show love.


Isn't the point of the Five Love Languages book / concept that whilst there are many ways to show love, they aren't all received and perceived equally by everyone?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Chilly I think you are right. There is nothing negative about bj, just like all of sexual activity. Why should bj be excluded from the repertoire of sexual activity? It should not be.
> 
> I think it is a way of letting a loving good man have something that partnered sex does not give him, a chance to enjoy with our thinking of anything else.
> 
> ...


100% in agreament with everything you said. all my comments are about a wife that willing accepts oral from her loving husband but refuses to recproicate.

for the record I have never asked my wife to give before I have given her a loving enthuastic oral orgasm. I just assumed that any man who asks for oral on demand was not the sharpest tool in the shed.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Do you think it possible that men who give and dont receive could plan an oral sex session? Just say its oral night. 

I personally would not like 69. I don't know how anyone can concentrate while being stimulated. I think letting one person relax and enjoy then the other, doubles the fun. 

We like doing that. But sometimes I like to just give a bj to my husband without anything for myself. 

I don't feel at all like it is payment or an insurance against infidelity because he never made me feel that way. I am inspired when I think about how loving he is and how much he loves his family.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Original OP - No, you should not settle. But I think you should work at making your sex life more satisfying and fun with persistence, small steps and patience. 

It sounds like she takes on a sexually passive role with you. It is not unusual, some woman avoid being aggressive because they don't want to seem like a [email protected] 

How about reading some books on sexual techniques and watching erotic videos? Is she the type of person who would go a long with that? If not, you read the books and look at the videos. 

Take the long view and plan on working on a more active role for her over a period of months. You are looking for changes in her mindset so that changes are lasting. 

My suggestion is not to act angry or frustrated, that will make you seem like you are not in control. 

Maybe she wants you to be more aggressive. If you want her to do something tell her in an assured and seductive way to do it while you are making love. She may be surprised and not respond at first but keep doing it unless she says she does not like it. 

Be explicit about what you would like her to do. One thing that is important, after you make love hold her lovingly and let her know that you love her. Even if she has not done what you want. Welcome even small stapes in the right direction. Let her know that you are turned on by her hands on you or lips on you. Make her feel special and that you desire her. 

Woman need to feel special in order to open up sexually. Any man will have sex with a willing woman, every man wants sex acts. You have to stand out from the generic man who wants bj and doggie. 

I think not being too specific about your expectations for sex acts would work better. Ease into variety and don't be angry if the initial attempts don't work. Keep at it like you believe in yourself and that you are doing the right thing for both of you.


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

cath, thanks for the sound advice. my problem is until she gets counseling to let go of her rape from 32 years ago, 1o years before i met her, oraL sex is not an option. i have tried to engage her in conversations in only a gentle way many times, but it has done no good. she understands which makes it harder because where do you go from there?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

No she really does not understand not if she is not vigorously working to heal from the rape. It is difficult to live though such a trauma again. She is avoiding it probably. 

When you talk to her about healing, don't say anything about sex. Ultimately, if she heals every area of your lives will improve. 

My suggestion is to go with that. It focuses on her and her well being. Let her know that you want the most important person in your life to get over the suffering. Let her know you will walk with her in her pain. 

Let her know you care about the trauma's effect on her mind. Don't put it in terms of how it effects bj for you. That may seem very self centered and as if you care more about bj than the fact that she was rapped.


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

Lets put the whole oral sex thing aside for a moment....

Husband and wife, living together in a relatively 'normal' marriage.
The wife loves having her neck and shoulders massaged and tickled...the husband is happy to oblige because he knows his wife likes it, he loves her and he gets pleasure from giving her pleasure.

The husband loves his feet being massaged and tickled....even though his wife knows how much he likes it and how much he would love her to do it to him, she simply refuses to. She isn't even prepared to talk about it. It is simply a non starter. 

BJ/Foot tickle/massage...same principle.

Giving the man you love and who loves you a bj occasionally is not exactly unreasonable, especially when he does all the things to you that you like...

Whats good for the goose is also good for the gander.... As we say in the UK!


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

I do not think your approach of withholding oral pleasure from your wife will work for the simple fact you are treating the symptom of the problem. The real problem being your wife's sexual abuse. She needs an IC.


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

do you think age has any factor in all this ? i have a great marriage other than the bj problem, and as we say in boston sometimes your better off to cut your losses, or why beat a dead horse.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

akaboston said:


> do you think age has any factor in all this ? i have a great marriage other than the bj problem, and as we say in boston sometimes your better off to cut your losses, or why beat a dead horse.


I'll bet if you really look at your marriage closley you would find she is selfish in other areas.But those areas might not be important to you so you don't notice.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

We are all selfish. What about an oral sex session? You give her and she gives you. Could you make it clear in a loving seductive way that you would like that? 

After you give her say something like I'd love to see your lips on my .. What ever you call your junk. If she refuses say something like I'm going crazy looking at those lovely lips got to have them. 

If she refuses smile and say ok and sex like you love her and cuddle afterwards.

Would you feel comfortable saybg the same at every session. How about tonight do I get to see ....


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## akaboston (May 9, 2012)

i love your tenacit. i would love to chat with you on facebook


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You have to keep at it like you mean it. I never give up. If one door closes another opens you have to find the open one. 

I was very inhibited when I got married. I thought my husband penis was ugly! I did not tell him. 

I am so much better now. I am sharing what my husband did maybe it will help. He is HD I am relatively low. I really don't know how he managed to be so patient. He does not take no for an answer. 

Not pushy but pleasent and persistent, he never seemed angry, he never seemed impatient, never demanding. 

He would say he was going to show me how to try a bj I would say I don't think I like it. He would say ok and then the next time he ask me to just do something small and it seemed ok then little by little i learned. 

He seemed to assume I would do it and he kept asking me to do things that were small thing and kept asking. He was so nice about it. 

He would make jokes about my reluctance - not ridicule me but his lack of success. Very funny. Not every one has the same personality and your wife may not be like me but, do the confidence thing in the way that is good for you. 

From what I read here, men seem to back off to easily like they are doing something wrong. It as if they agree with their wives. 

Or that they are ashamed to want sex. I think that men have to be confident and sure that they are normal. That attitude influences women. Women will refuse one man and have sex with another. 

Why - his attitude, he never gives up, acts matter of fact like it will come in time, never angry or impatient, not sad. Sad angry and impatient makes a man seem out of control of his environment, weak.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

It's about trust and if someone has been traumatized trust in their partner can't overcome that. 
In a relationship without traumatized people there should be a balance of trust. So neither partner is in power during oral or any part of sex. Unless that's what turns you on....
Personally I enjoy giving oral and there have been times when I don't get it in return but I didn't consider stopping giving it to him because first of all I enjoy it and it gets him
Super hard which makes sex better for me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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