# The die is cast but the guilt never ends



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

My wife and I were married for 11 years. I was faithful for all those years, although she accused me often when I had done absolutely nothing. Our marriage was miserable, although I can remember good times and don't want to forget them. There's much I could say about the harm she did me during our marriage---she never really cherished me, valued me. She was controlling and put everyone else ahead of me. I'm not saying I was a saint, but on balance I can fairly say that I was, in some respects, a mentally battered husband. We have no children.

Last February I met someone, and I wasn't really looking, but she and I fell in love. Nearly instantly. We were lifemates calling to each other. Her marriage was miserable as well. 

We met, and cheated. But this was never just about sex; I would never have broken my vows for just that. We're genuinely in love, for the first time in our lives we now know what love really is (we're both in our late 40s). We knew we had to get out of our marriages and be together always.

We both confessed to our spouses about 5 months ago. Neither of our spouses wanted divorces--they wanted to work it out and reconcile. And we simply could not do that. WE wanted divorces.

We're all physically separate now and soon I'll file for divorce. My wife has much less future earning power than I do, both because of education and because she is 10 years older than I am (I should add that my love is nearly exactly my age, not younger). Between a large bank account and a house that has to be sold, combined marital property will be something like $220,000. I'm taking no more than $15,000 for moving expenses and new furniture, I'm going to finish the car payments on the car I bought her in 2009, and I plan to keep her on my car insurance policy in perpetuity. I'm doing all I can to give her as much as I'm able to; I'll have very little left for myself and I don't make that much--let's say under $80,000.

But still my heart eats at me, and I can't talk about this with my new love forever. She wants me to be as open as I can with her and we have discussed this guilt, but at some point I think she would be sick of hearing of it---not that she's shown any such reaction. It just stands to reason that at some point she'll expect me to let this go.

But I can't deny how much this hurts, this feeling of having done so much harm to someone in a lifetime of avoiding doing harm to so much as an insect. Sometimes I can't breathe. I know that sometimes doing harm is unavoidable, and I know I'm doing the best I can by my ex, but I also know she'd actually have preferred an unhappy, sad marriage to the end of our days to this divorce.

Why won't this end?! We're made our choices but the Furies pursue me every day. It isn't as if divorce is so outre, so uncommon. It happens. But I feel so bad for her! (My ex.) She's had a tough life, and so have I....and because I know how painful a hard life can be, I empathize deeply with her.

I know she doens't want my pity, but she has it--I don't think pity is a bad thing, it's empathy made manifest. And along with the pity comes this mind-devouring guilt.

I hardly know what more to say.


----------



## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

You did another human being wrong and it will haunt you the rest of your life. I hear what you say about her treatment of you but you put up with it for 11 years instead of standing up to her like a man and then suddenly without warning you cheat on her and want out. I understand your unhappiness but couldn't there have been another way?


----------



## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Well, at least you chose not to stay in a miserable marriage, and actually had the guts to end it. Of course you didn't go about it the right way, you chose to get out by having an affair...an exit affair. 

Unfortunately, yes, she will obviously be hurt by your decision right now. But in the long run, she will find someone who will make her happy. You can only do so much to ease her pain, you have left and started a new life. Allow her to move on as well. You should probably seek counseling to deal with your guilt over the situation. Is it possible that you still love your wife and maybe regret your decision?


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

I did stand up to her Delila; we fought incessantly; she never, ever believed she was wrong about one thing...Terrible, terrible fights. A few years ago I asked her to please, _please _go to marriage counseling with me. More than once I asked her, in more than one year. She refused every time.

When I told her what had happened this year, she begged me not to go. She wanted a chance to change...and if I had NOT fallen this deeply in love with someone else, I would have leapt at that. But as it was something had changed dramatically--I knew a love such as I had never even dreamt was possible. Bear in mind my age; this is no mere infatuation. Gods, what was I to DO! Must I be that much of a martyr? Must she? (the woman I'm with). 

It isn't that I met someone else and cheated that haunts me, Delila--my ex broke parts of her marriage vows every day of our marriage. It's that I couldn't give her that chance she wanted, and I've always felt everyone deserves a chance. It's also that I know some of her dreams are shattered, and I've shattered them by leaving her. But I'm truly in love! For the first time in a life of feeling cut off, separated by a pane of glass in all my relationships, I have a soul-deep rapport such as I never dreamt could be.


But maybe suffering until I die is what I deserve, after all. I've considered that.


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

working_together said:


> Well, at least you chose not to stay in a miserable marriage, and actually had the guts to end it. Of course you didn't go about it the right way, you chose to get out by having an affair...an exit affair.
> 
> Unfortunately, yes, she will obviously be hurt by your decision right now. But in the long run, she will find someone who will make her happy. You can only do so much to ease her pain, you have left and started a new life. Allow her to move on as well. You should probably seek counseling to deal with your guilt over the situation. Is it possible that you still love your wife and maybe regret your decision?


Is that what it's called? An exit affair? I had no idea I was a stereotype, but in retrospect I see I should not have expected that my tale was an original one. Yes, I should probably feel worse over the affair itself---I DO know that that injured her as a woman. I have felt more grief/guilt, though, over leaving her when she didn't want that.

WT, no, I don't still love her (my future ex), but I still care _very _deeply about what happens to her. You don't just stop giving a damn about someone you've been together 11 years with, even if so many of those years were bad ones.

I DO want her to get on with her life. I want her to find every happiness. I believe there has to be someone, still, for her--she's quite attractive and pretty, and has many good qualities. It's simply that our marriage should never have been--it was a mistake, a terrible mistake, from the beginning.

I may very well need counseling for this guilt. I'm hoping that being with my love, and not seeing my ex's face--a constant, painful rebuke--will eventually wash away some of the worst of this pain. The question is, SHOULD it? Maybe I'm supposed to feel this always. Logically that sounds crazy but sometimes my mind feels so involuted on the subject that I wonder.


----------



## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

Not that am ok with the affair, but I do now see that you tried and tried and that she took you for granted; so it appears. Yes, everyone deserves true happiness and maybe your wife was one who loves misery? You tried to work things out and put effort into the marriage but she didn't do her part. It's a shame. Can you find some comfort in the fact that you did suggest help and counseling and she showed no interest in helping the marriage? She didn't 'act' like she loved you and she apparently disrespected you. I'm not saying now what you did was the right thing to do, but doesn't sound like you planned the affair or to cheat and that all you were wanting was true love and respect. Hmmm, let this be a lesson to wives who take their husbands for granted and treat him badly. Best wishes to you.


----------



## Dellia (Jan 6, 2012)

BTW, I understand your age difference and if you don't want to give your exact age, can you give me a rough figure? Thank you


----------



## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't really understand the question is all the dramatic posturing. 

Yes you hurt your spouse. No, you can't do anything to undo the hurt. This isn't some divine event and you aren't the martyr in all of this.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

This is a dealing with infidelity section - not assuage your guilt for cheating and dumping your wife support group.

That may seem harsh, but really what you've done doesn't have any upside and there NEVER is an acceptable situation to cheat, and while you have a long list of reasons why you justify what you've done - understand that each and every cheater does. So there's nothing new or unique to your tale.

btw - keep in mind that most affair relationships fail. So odds are you've trash your marriage and your exWife's soul for nothing lasting.


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

Dellia said:


> BTW, I understand your age difference and if you don't want to give your exact age, can you give me a rough figure? Thank you


Sure Dellia--I'm 48, and the woman I met is 48 as well. My wife is 58. I only mentioned age to explain that I'm not a love-struck kid. I truly didn't care about the difference between my wife's age and mine.

Even if she (the woman I met) and I had waited to meet and hold each other until we were fully separated from our spouses, if we had just told our spouses that we've met someone else and want divorces back in February, I'd be feeling this same guilt--for leaving her. (I don't think our spouses would have believed for a second that we'd only just met at a diner and talked or some such.)

I could write more about how it was between my ex and myself but it occurs to me that damning her online isn't fair, anyway. I can give the general context that I did, but I guess, after hurting her as I did, it would be only self-serving to go into more detail on what I think she did wrong.

Well, thanks for posting, answering. Somehow I will have to find a way to put this guilt in its proper place, if I can find it.


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

seeking sanity said:


> I don't really understand the question is all the dramatic posturing.
> 
> Yes you hurt your spouse. No, you can't do anything to undo the hurt. This isn't some divine event and you aren't the martyr in all of this.


I don't know what to say. I only meant to ask, rehotrically (but maybe not so rhetorically), "was I supposed to BE a martyr?"--I know I'm not one.


Honestly, I'm not posturing. The pain of guilt inside is real and at times crippling. I'm...well, I'm seeking sanity, really.


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> This is a dealing with infidelity section - not assuage your guilt for cheating and dumping your wife support group.
> 
> That may seem harsh, but really what you've done doesn't have any upside and there NEVER is an acceptable situation to cheat, and while you have a long list of reasons why you justify what you've done - understand that each and every cheater does. So there's nothing new or unique to your tale.
> 
> btw - keep in mind that most affair relationships fail. So odds are you've trash your marriage and your exWife's soul for nothing lasting.


I didn't know which section to put it in. This seemed most appropriate. Should I ask to move the thread to another section? Or is this forum (talkaboutmarriage) not right for questions like these?

I have heard that, about affair relationships. I can only say that we know each other as we've never known any other.

I would like to assuage my guilt, as you say, but as I've also said, as it appears you agree with, it might not be supposed to be assuaged.


----------



## FourtyPlus (Dec 18, 2011)

You made a choice. Your wife has to get over it and she will. You have to get over it too! You got what you wanted, I don't understand the melodrama about being a martyr.
And your guilt is something you will have to deal with, on your own. It will haunt you for the rest of your life if you allow it. It's a choice just like any other choice.


----------



## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Nihil said:


> My wife and I were married for 11 years. I was faithful for all those years, although she accused me often when I had done absolutely nothing. Our marriage was miserable, although I can remember good times and don't want to forget them. There's much I could say about the harm she did me during our marriage---she never really cherished me, valued me. She was controlling and put everyone else ahead of me. I'm not saying I was a saint, but on balance I can fairly say that I was, in some respects, a mentally battered husband. We have no children.



As a BS, I have to take all this with a grain of salt. No matter how horrible your wife was to you over your 11 year marriage, you allowed it. No one person is to blame for the problems in a marriage, it's 50/50. At any point over the years you could've walked out, instead you waited for an exit affair. When you asked for counseling and she refused, that's when your wife needed the slap of reality. Divorce papers at that time would've shown your wife you preferred to be alone than in the marriage. However, you didn't prefer the alternative of being alone, so you stayed married. But once you realized you could leave and NOT be alone, you left.

It's very common for a WS to rewrite the history of the marriage once they start an affair, so it's hard to know how much your perception of the marriage has altered since you meet the OW. Same goes for the OW, you say she was in a miserable marriage too. My husband's OW talked about her miserable marriage, I'm sure my H talked about how miserable he was too. It wasn't until after the affair fog cleared did he realize he wasn't miserable in his marriage, but just miserable with other things in life like finances and career. He started to blame me for where he felt he failed in life. 

Anyway, I'm not asking for specific examples of why your wife was abusive or for you to give more justification for having an affair (there is never a good reason-divorce first), but really take an honest look at the past. How your reactions to her may have influenced her behavior towards you, what may have been your wife's motivation for being controlling, why did she feel the need to always be right, you may not have felt cherished but perhaps she cherished you in a way that was not in your language of love but hers... these are some ways to look back and see where you also failed the marriage. Once again, marital problems are 50/50. So take culpability and ownership for where you failed your wife, not just by leaving and having an affair, but for not making the hard decisions when it mattered most for the future of your marriage.

I do think you should see a therapist to deal with the guilt and also to help better prepare youself for not making the same mistakes you made in your marriage. I've already noticed you using a few classic cognitive distortions like saying your wife "never, ever believed she was wrong about one thing" and calling yourself a martyr because you feel guilt for cheating and leaving your wife. For a 48-year-old man, those statements sound very juvenille. Take a look at the link below on cognitive distortions and how they affect our thinking. Be open minded, I'm sure your stbxw and you used some pretty regularly. The trick is to stop using them moving forward.

15 Common Cognitive Distortions | Psych Central 

Side note, I can't remember who pointed out cognitive distortions on another thread, but it sure was eye opening. Our MC called us out a few times for using statements like "always" and "never", and now I know why! Just so you know Nihil, it seems like there's a lot of juvenille sounding 40 somethings walking around, because my H (the DS) and myself both used such overgeneralizations about each other. But MC has been very helpful in making us better people and learning to take responsibility for our own happiness.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Get some therapy to help deal with your guilt. Also, if you haven't apologized to yoru soon to be ex wife, do it. Tell her why you are sorry and acknowledge what you have done.

Guilt is a mothertrucker. When it comes to adultery, it's even worse. 

You should be able to talk about this openly with your affair partner.


----------



## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Nihil said:


> Sure Dellia--I'm 48, and the woman I met is 48 as well. My wife is 58. I only mentioned age to explain that I'm not a love-struck kid. I truly didn't care about the difference between my wife's age and mine.
> 
> Even if she (the woman I met) and I had waited to meet and hold each other until we were fully separated from our spouses, if we had just told our spouses that we've met someone else and want divorces back in February, I'd be feeling this same guilt--for leaving her. (I don't think our spouses would have believed for a second that we'd only just met at a diner and talked or some such.)
> 
> ...


Under these circumstances you are exactly that, a love struck, in the fog, child. You are deeply into the affair fog. Ask your self what kind of woman knowingly intrudes in another woman's marriage. A person like that does not deserve anyone's loyalty. The odds against having anything worth while with such a selfish and dishonest person are very high ( %97 ). How gallant of you not to explain how awful your wife is to us. You do realize that you have not given the person you made vows to a chance, and that you are in all probability rewriting your marital history to justify the unjustifiable? Have you asked your self why you made your wife feel so insecure in your marriage that she suspected your of cheating, and why you ended up actually cheating instead of working even that much harder to prove her wrong, and to reassure and comfort her? One poster said that this forum is not a support group for cheaters, it isn't, and there is a reason for that. People who cheat lie to everyone, but mostly they lie to themselves. You are lying to yourself, and you owe your wife more than just a fist full of conscience salving money. Go to marriage counseling with her, stop seeing the spider woman, and work on your marriage. When you have done that, and you find that the relationship can't be saved, then end it in an honorable and constructive way.


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Oh my goodness. This is straight out of the book!


I have have found my soul mate! 

So you live with a person for 11 years, you share the ups and down of life, pay the bills, go on hoiday, work, live a life. 

You miraculously meet a person who is your soul mate who know you like no other? What it wrong with this picture Dude


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> Under these circumstances you are exactly that, a love struck, in the fog, child. You are deeply into the affair fog. Ask your self what kind of woman knowingly intrudes in another woman's marriage. A person like that does not deserve anyone's loyalty. The odds against having anything worth while with such a selfish and dishonest person are very high ( %97 ). How gallant of you not to explain how awful your wife is to us. You do realize that you have not given the person you made vows to a chance, and that you are in all probability rewriting your marital history to justify the unjustifiable? Have you asked your self why you made your wife feel so insecure in your marriage that she suspected your of cheating, and why you ended up actually cheating instead of working even that much harder to prove her wrong, and to reassure and comfort her? One poster said that this forum is not a support group for cheaters, it isn't, and there is a reason for that. People who cheat lie to everyone, but mostly they lie to themselves. You are lying to yourself, and you owe your wife more than just a fist full of conscience salving money. Go to marriage counseling with her, stop seeing the spider woman, and work on your marriage. When you have done that, and you find that the relationship can't be saved, then end it in an honorable and constructive way.


Oaksthorne, I'm being ruthlessly truthful with myself--and you. There's nothing childish or childlike in any of this.

The marriage is over. As for what I'm not saying about how I was treated for so many years, perhaps if you knew some of it, you'd have a different opinion. Or maybe not. What if a woman told you that her husband was hitting her? _Would you advise her to work it out? _Mental cruelty can be pretty monstrous, too. I don't want to write about those things because I _did_ have the affair, but without telling you what she did in detail I have to admit I'm leaving you in the dark.

I ended up cheating because, and this is plain truth, I fell in love--and it's no fog, but the real thing. My marriage was unhappy, miserable for both of us, but I would not have had an affair for sex alone, and did not. My wife accused me for years because she was, to be blunt, irrational. Why in the world should I have to prove I HAVEN'T done something?--guilty until proved innocent? She never had one, good, sensible reason to suspect me of anything for all those years. 

The money is about leaving her with a better chance for the future because of the disparities in our education and skills--not salving my conscience because of what happened. If I had not had an affair, and were simply divorcing, I'd be leaving with the same unequal division.

As for the forum--isn't this talkaboutmarriage? Or is this forum restricted only to one kind of viewpoint? If the last, please let me know...I didn't see that in the forum's desciption, but if that's the case...well, I guess this thread should be deleted.


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

ing said:


> Oh my goodness. This is straight out of the book!
> 
> 
> I have have found my soul mate!
> ...


For the last 6 years, almost all downs, ing. And not those that arise out of the vicissitudes of life, but those created by one spouse to torment the other.


----------



## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

Nihil said:


> For the last 6 years, almost all downs, ing. And not those that arise out of the vicissitudes of life, but those created by one spouse to torment the other.


Put it this way, when someone asks me what a person who is in full affair mode looks like. I will point to this thread.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

ing said:


> Put it this way, when someone asks me what a person who is in full affair mode looks like. I will point to this thread.


I know, right? Lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lydia (Sep 4, 2011)

Of course you feel guilty. You uprooted someone's entire life.

A sad, miserable marriage is not an excuse to cheat. There is no excuse for an affair. You have a choice to get help for your marriage, or to divorce. Unfortunately, you failed to do any in time to spare your wife's feelings.

Your current "love", as well as yourself, both obviously feel that cheating on your spouse is not that big a deal. Have fun with that. I wonder how long it will be til either you or your new love cheats again? Only time will tell. There is no such thing as "soul mates" in my opinion, you create a soul mate by giving to each other and you obviously haven't given as much to your wife, as she has to you - due to the fact that the marriage means a lot more to her, than it does to you.

You deserve to feel guilty, and you will for a long time.


----------



## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Nihil said:


> Oaksthorne, I'm being ruthlessly truthful with myself--and you. There's nothing childish or childlike in any of this.
> 
> The marriage is over. As for what I'm not saying about how I was treated for so many years, perhaps if you knew some of it, you'd have a different opinion. Or maybe not. What if a woman told you that her husband was hitting her? _Would you advise her to work it out? _Mental cruelty can be pretty monstrous, too. I don't want to write about those things because I _did_ have the affair, but without telling you what she did in detail I have to admit I'm leaving you in the dark.
> 
> ...


I did not say prove your self to be innocent, I said she needed to be comforted and reassured. Something in the way you behaved lead her to the conclusion that cheating was a possibility. Obviously she was right. How can you be "irrational" when you are right? The forum is Talk About Marriage, not talk about why cheating was justifiable and why it's ok to leave your lawful wife for a spider woman. Your entire MO on this forum so far has been self justification. How can a 58 yr old woman be left with any kind of equal anything while you dither with a younger woman?. If you had not had an affair, then your judgement would not be as suspect. But you did have an A and you are still having an A and therefore you have your head up your butt for the foreseeable future, just as anybody in a similar situation would. That is just how this kind of thing works. It is your life, you can live it as you please, but I do think that you need to try a forum for cheaters. You are far too deep in the fog to be receptive to taking advice about the honorable choice in dealing with your wife.You came on here for support. I have been on both sides of the issue. I left a bad marriage, but I did it correctly and honestly. Several years before I ended my M a young man ( 10 yrs younger then me) fell in love with me , and I could have easily ended my M in an exit A at the time; so I know that cheating is a choice that you make because it is easier and more fun than doing it the right way. I have been cheated on too and I know with every fiber of my being, that no one is entitled to do that to another human being, no matter what their justification.


----------



## Nihil (Jan 9, 2012)

oaksthorne said:


> I did not say prove your self to be innocent, I said she needed to be comforted and reassured. Something in the way you behaved lead her to the conclusion that cheating was a possibility. Obviously she was right. How can you be "irrational" when you are right? The forum is Talk About Marriage, not talk about why cheating was justifiable and why it's ok to leave your lawful wife for a spider woman. Your entire MO on this forum so far has been self justification. How can a 58 yr old woman be left with any kind of equal anything while you dither with a younger woman?. If you had not had an affair, then your judgement would not be as suspect. But you did have an A and you are still having an A and therefore you have your head up your butt for the foreseeable future, just as anybody in a similar situation would. That is just how this kind of thing works. It is your life, you can live it as you please, but I do think that you need to try a forum for cheaters. You are far too deep in the fog to be receptive to taking advice about the honorable choice in dealing with your wife.You came on here for support. I have been on both sides of the issue. I left a bad marriage, but I did it correctly and honestly. Several years before I ended my M a young man ( 10 yrs younger then me) fell in love with me , and I could have easily ended my M in an exit A at the time; so I know that cheating is a choice that you make because it is easier and more fun than doing it the right way. I have been cheated on too and I know with every fiber of my being, that no one is entitled to do that to another human being, no matter what their justification.


Oaksthorne, everything I've described is part of a marriage and directly related to it. "Marriage" as a topic is a big umbrella. The name you gave it makes it just as much a marriage topic as the "let's pretend affairs are always, without any question, wrong, and let's pretend that the rest of the marriage vows are a pittance in importance by comparison to the single act of adultery" forum.

Her accusastions were irrational because for 11 years she was NOT right! Are you saying accusations made before the act are correct? If I accuse you of armed robbery and you haven't committed it but may 10 years from now, does that make all the accusations before you did it correct? What is this, "Minority Report"?

I know you think my mind is in a fog. It's not, and you can believe that or not. I'm the foremost authority on what is going on inside my head. 

I admit I should have had a divorce and then been with my love. Yes, I should have done that. I can't go back and change that, now.

I don't have an MO. Ok? I didn't post here with an "MO." I wrote my honest thoughts and feelings.

My love is not a spider woman and I do take exception to that. She's a good woman with the most incredibly gentle heart I've ever known. This is not "dithering"; the marriages are _over_ and that "younger" woman will eventually be my next wife. And just because you say my head is up my butt doesn't make it so.

I didn't come here to justify, but to seek common thoughts and experiences. I also didn't come here to be excoriated without the minutest consideration of how my own, individual case might actually cause you to nod your head in agreement. There was far more than simply accusations in the mental abuse I mentioned.

The fact is, you're a very bitter person. I thought_ I _was bitter, but---wow.

I did read some sensible advice from one earlier poster--that I made my choice and have to move on. Makes perfect sense, although easier said than done inside your own skull.

Thanks for the tip on the forum, though. I have a better understanding of this forum's purpose, and will find another place to hash things out.


----------



## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Nihil said:


> Oaksthorne, everything I've described is part of a marriage and directly related to it. "Marriage" as a topic is a big umbrella. The name you gave it makes it just as much a marriage topic as the "let's pretend affairs are always, without any question, wrong, and let's pretend that the rest of the marriage vows are a pittance in importance by comparison to the single act of adultery" forum.
> 
> I don't have an MO. Ok? I didn't post here with an "MO." I wrote my honest thoughts and feelings.
> 
> ...


This part of the forum is " coping with infidelity", that dose not mean making is easier for the infidel. Any "advice " that agrees with what a person already thinks, is likely to be deemed "sensible" It's sensible to the mafia guy not to leave any witness's behind, it is not right but it is sensible. I am a person who has learned from my mistakes, I have learned not to lie to myself to make it easier to do the wrong thing. I am quite sure that you do take "exception" to being told the truth. The truth is; that wonderful people don't steal other people's mates; and that if they cheat with you they will also cheat on you; and that you have about a 3% chance of having a successful relationship with someone who will cheat with you. As bitter as they are they are still the facts, and it matters very little weather you like them or not, or weather you think I am a "bitter" person for telling you the truth.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Just going back to something you said:

_*But still my heart eats at me, and I can't talk about this with my new love forever*. She wants me to be as open as I can with her and we have discussed this guilt, but at some point I think she would be sick of hearing of it---not that she's shown any such reaction. *It just stands to reason that at some point she'll expect me to let this go.*

I may very well need counseling for this guilt. *I'm hoping that being with my love, and not seeing my ex's face--a constant, painful rebuke--will eventually wash away some of the worst of this pain.*_

Why do you feel you cannot "talk about this" with the OW forever? you say you think she will be "sick of it" which makes me wonder--has she given you any inclination of her being sick of discussing this, the affair, what it did to two families, the guilt? Also you said she will expect you to let this go... So has she made any comments about how it is uncomfortable for her to discusst his? Has she expressed her own guilt or she is finding it easier to move on from what happened w/ your affair and it's effects?

I know you mentioned seeing your wife's face is a "constant painful rebuke" and you hope that see OW's face will wash this guilt away... but have you considered that seeing OW's face is going to be a reminder every day of what you did... of the affair, of it's outcome, effects on two families?

Counselling, dude.

Have you ever apologized to your wife for your adultery and acknowledged how she feels about it and that you empathize with how she feels? I think that could be beneficial to you.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Nihil said:


> The fact is, you're a very bitter person. I thought_ I _was bitter, but---wow.


And there you have it folks - the classic attack the motivation and state of the messenger when you don't like the answer.

Used whenever you're backed into a corner where you are wrong, you know you're wrong, and there is no remaining reasonable logic argument.

You attack the messenger's motivation and emotional state.

Fail!


----------

