# What is an EA?



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

So I've done some searching around and it seems to me an EA is getting an emotional attachment to someone. Meaning falling in love with them.

But on here I've seen it used very broadly. Texting a man is in some cases considered an EA here. Having a male friend at all is considered an EA.

To me I'd say an EA is having feelings for someone else (feelings like love, not friendship) that endangers a marriage (ie, the one in the EA is willing to leave their partner for the other party). 

So I'm curious what are the lines for you? Is talking/texting/emailing/pming anyone the opposite Sex (even if just friends) an EA? Or do the rules change based on in the person has cheated or had an EA before?


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

To me, whatever you're hiding from your spouse is an affair, whether it is EA or PA.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Crudely put, an EA is only one small step away from a man or woman getting their ashes hauled without it being a deemed to be a "one-night-stand!"!

And while both are equally deceptive and harmful to any married, faithful, trusting relationship, the EA and PA definitely compliment each other!*


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

an EA is what a typical TAM poster wants to think their wayward partner is having when it's really a PA.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KimatraAKM said:


> So I've done some searching around and *it seems to me an EA is getting an emotional attachment to someone. Meaning falling in love with them.*


I'd think that most would agree w/ this.



KimatraAKM said:


> But on here I've seen it used very broadly. Texting a man is in some cases considered an EA here.


Uhhh... kinda depends on the actual content of the texts being sent and received.



KimatraAKM said:


> Having a male friend at all is considered an EA.


That's just dumb.



KimatraAKM said:


> To me I'd say an EA is having feelings for someone else (feelings like love, not friendship) that endangers a marriage (ie, the one in the EA is willing to leave their partner for the other party).


Again, I think that most would agree w/ this.



KimatraAKM said:


> So I'm curious what are the lines for you? Is talking/texting/emailing/pming anyone the opposite Sex (even if just friends) an EA?


No.



KimatraAKM said:


> Or do the rules change based on in the person has cheated or had an EA before?


Eh... not necessarily. Having said that, it would seem pretty obvious to most that the WS can't expect that the BS is going to be OK w/ him/her maintaining contact w/ his/her former EAP.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Everyone seems so different on their opinions.  so here's a made up conversation as a test... Is the below an ea or not? 

X and Y talk about sex. Things they like. Things they wish their partner would do. Questions about how to approach partner with it. X and Y part with good day/night/bye and that's it. Neither say I love you. Neither are leaving their partners. Maybe they even live countries away. No chance for a PA. They're just talking. No discussions of meeting. But sex is discussed. Maybe even some jokey flirting or teasing/kidding. 

EA?


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Are the hiding these conversations from their respective spouses?

The A part of an EA is the betrayal, which usually starts with conversations that you would keep secret from your partner, regardless of whether its sexual or strictly emotional.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

You mean deleting them? Let's say no. They'll type them and aim/pm/text/email them right beside their partner. They feel they are doing nothing wrong.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KimatraAKM said:


> Everyone seems so different on their opinions.  so here's a made up conversation as a test... Is the below an ea or not?
> 
> X and Y talk about sex. Things they like. Things they wish their partner would do. Questions about how to approach partner with it. X and Y part with good day/night/bye and that's it. Neither say I love you. Neither are leaving their partners. Maybe they even live countries away. No chance for a PA. They're just talking. No discussions of meeting. But sex is discussed. Maybe even some jokey flirting or teasing/kidding.
> 
> EA?


Eh... possibly _approaching_ an EA.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... possibly _approaching_ an EA.


Ok. So here's another question then. Why is it approaching a EA? Can a conversation like this never stay just friends? If that's all it ever is, would that mean these two friends were always "borderline ea"? Is that cheating?

Some of the responses on these boards sound like this little converstion would be divorce worthy. Like this is cheating hands down... Which is why I'm asking the question. I wanna see if I'm in the minority.


----------



## ReidWright (May 15, 2014)

I guess there are different levels, even in 'friendships'. how about something like :

pure friendship : no discernible difference between a friendship with a same sex person, romantic thoughts never occurred in either person

friendship w/attraction: nothing said aloud, or written down, but one or both have had thoughts, "what-ifs", if spouse wasn't in the picture could see something develop. 

EA: wouldn't want spouse to hear or see the way they interact with each other

PA: romantic kissing and more


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Guess you can justify almost anything.
How does the spouse feel about it? Lots of spouses would be angry/hurt that their partner was discussing their sex life with a "friend" and would view it as crossing a boundary of the marital relationship. 
The danger is that these discussions are meeting a need that is not being met in the marriage. You would be taking the intimacy that is owed to the spouse and giving it to the internet friend.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

KimatraAKM said:


> So I've done some searching around and it seems to me an EA is getting an emotional attachment to someone. Meaning falling in love with them.
> 
> But on here I've seen it used very broadly. Texting a man is in some cases considered an EA here. Having a male friend at all is considered an EA.
> 
> ...



The line between friend versus EA can be blurry IMO. I suspect a lot of people have gotten too emotionally attached to a friend and realized it felt inappropriate so they self corrected and backed off. I don't consider those people cheaters in any sense of the word. To me that's heads and shoulders different than someone falling in love and staying in the friendship (EA).


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Guess you can justify almost anything.
> How does the spouse feel about it? Lots of spouses would be angry/hurt that their partner was discussing their sex life with a "friend" and would view it as crossing a boundary of the marital relationship.
> The danger is that these discussions are meeting a need that is not being met in the marriage. You would be taking the intimacy that is owed to the spouse and giving it to the internet friend.


But here's where I'm confused. So talking to this friend is meeting a need that partner doesn't fulfill. Or maybe the person is embarrassed about their fantasy and want to see how way out it his before broaching it with their partner? How is asking a friend worse than asking on, say, these forums? There's a sex section.. So is asking a sex question on these forums cheating? 

If someone is concerned about a part of their marriage and partner turns them down or doesn't want to discuss, then what to do? Does the person need to just bottle up their needs and deal? Live with fears? If they can't get fulfillment for whatever emotional thing they're seeking with partner, do they just divorce?

I dunno... I wouldn't consider the above converstion even board line ea. My idea of ea seems way different. Like they've gone beyond friends and are sneaking out of the house to contact each other.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

KimatraAKM said:


> So I've done some searching around and it seems to me an EA is getting an emotional attachment to someone. Meaning falling in love with them.
> 
> But on here I've seen it used very broadly. Texting a man is in some cases considered an EA here. Ask yourself how often you text your same sex friends. I have one very close female friend. We talk once a week for an hour -- letting off the steam of life. But I don't text either her or any other friend daily random thoughts that come in my head. Ergo, if my husband were texting a woman daily, I would be very concerned.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

KimatraAKM said:


> But here's where I'm confused. So talking to this friend is meeting a need that partner doesn't fulfill. Or maybe the person is embarrassed about their fantasy and want to see how way out it his before broaching it with their partner? How is asking a friend worse than asking on, say, these forums? There's a sex section.. So is asking a sex question on these forums cheating?
> 
> If someone is concerned about a part of their marriage and partner turns them down or doesn't want to discuss, then what to do? Does the person need to just bottle up their needs and deal? Live with fears? If they can't get fulfillment for whatever emotional thing they're seeking with partner, do they just divorce?
> 
> I dunno... I wouldn't consider the above converstion even board line ea. My idea of ea seems way different. Like they've gone beyond friends and are sneaking out of the house to contact each other.


Again, what does the spouse say. How would they feel about their partner having this conversation with someone outside the marriage.

If there is a part of the relationship that is unfulfilling and you can't discuss it with your partner, that is a much bigger problem. You've already alluded to not being able to find fulfillment with the spouse. Once you start seeking to have that need met outside the relationship you are already on the slipper slope to A (pardon the pun).


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

KimatraAKM said:


> Everyone seems so different on their opinions.  so here's a made up conversation as a test... Is the below an ea or not?
> 
> X and Y talk about sex. Things they like. Things they wish their partner would do. Questions about how to approach partner with it. X and Y part with good day/night/bye and that's it. Neither say I love you. Neither are leaving their partners. Maybe they even live countries away. No chance for a PA. They're just talking. No discussions of meeting. But sex is discussed. Maybe even some jokey flirting or teasing/kidding.
> 
> EA?


I can't imagine talking about my sex life with another man. Maybe he would misinterpret the purpose of our discussion. When my husband had his inappropriate friendship, they did talk about sex. Based on what he had told her about the progression of our relationship, she told my (future) husband that we were not having sex often enough and that was a sign that I was not all that interested.

So tell me, if you were talking about your sex life with your boyfriend / husband, what guarantee would you have that your male friend might not see as an opportunity to drive a wedge into marriage? My husband certainly wasn't looking for that kind of reaction from his friend.


----------



## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

KimatraAKM said:


> Everyone seems so different on their opinions.  so here's a made up conversation as a test... Is the below an ea or not?
> 
> X and Y talk about sex. Things they like. Things they wish their partner would do. Questions about how to approach partner with it. X and Y part with good day/night/bye and that's it. Neither say I love you. Neither are leaving their partners. Maybe they even live countries away. No for a PA. They're just talking. No discussions of meeting. But sex is discussed. Maybe even some jokey flirting or teasing/kidding.
> 
> EA?


When I got divorced and was online dating, I made a male friend in another state, and we're still online friends. We met once in person for dinner when he was in my town for an interview. While we were both dating, we would talk about sex, about our dating experiences, etc. I reconciled with my ex (who is about to become my ex again) around the same time my online friend got engaged. At one point, I think during their engagement, he said something to me about their sex life and I shut him down. He wasn't doing it to hit on me or anything, but it just felt sooooo icky. (Partially because I'm not even remotely attracted to this man physically so I don't want to have those images in my head). And I certainly wouldn't be talking to him anymore about my sex life, even when I start dating again--largely because he IS attracted to me, and he's married. That would be totally inappropriate for us to resume those kinds of conversations. (I'm not sure he would agree with that, but I bet his wife would).

Now, my ex/stbx does not even know this man exists. I never told him, and probably never would because he's just the type that thinks any friends made on the internet is pure craziness. He'd never do it. His wife knows all about me though.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

> So tell me, if you were talking about your sex life with your boyfriend / husband, what guarantee would you have that your male friend might not see as an opportunity to drive a wedge into marriage? My husband certainly wasn't looking for that kind of reaction from his friend.


I'm starting to see an EA might be a gray area. It may feel like an ea to partner but not to the one doing the talking.

And in the case of your question. How is the friends response your problem? If friend responds with gross comments or gets into areas you're not comfortable with you're simply done talking or you correct them. If friend gets feelings you simply stop talking. It's super easy to keep it in the friend zone. But some seem to think that the talking at all is the problem. Some feel the intentions are the issue. Some think talking at all with anyone about anything considering a marriage is a problem. It just made me super curious.


----------



## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I would say when they start trying to hide it or lying. That's when it crosses a line. no matter what it is they're talking about.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

I would say in your example yes.

Your sex life and ways it could be improved or how it is should only be between you and your SO. A counselor can be involved if agreed upon.

Why? It seems like an invite to someone else to fix the problems and it gives the intimacy of conversation you should be having with your SO to someone else.

I do not mean to pry, but I saw that you posted another thread about MUDDs. Are you asking this because of conversations that have come up online?

Please please kick my ass if this has nothing to do with you. I am just trying to give a point of view that MAY apply to you as I have seen this in my own life. 

I do not know if it applies to you and ignore it if it does not help. I also have nothing against nerds and such but I do not include myself in that culture.

I live in a "nerdy" area. I moved here about 2 years ago. Someone asked me if I was interested in going to a "con". I had no idea what it was. I became more friendly with this person and group of people. They invited me to a con. I went. It was not my thing. What I did notice was that there was a sexual bent to the atmosphere. Which is fine, nothing I am against. But I do not think that atmosphere is conducive to long-term monogamous relationships as talking about one's sexuality is pretty open there. 

It may seem normal in online "nerdy" communities to be so open about sexuality, but realize that may be something you have become accustomed to and may not be conducive to creating boundaries.


----------



## somebodyiusedtoknow (Mar 16, 2015)

Having recently just discovered my husband having an EA, I will say this. 

In the beginning it was just friends. I was aware of all the conversations, emails, etc as things progressed I was no longer included (but did not know). They conversations became more racy. My husband began doing things like texting her to check if she made it safely to a destination. 

Although I could have read the screen over his shoulder at anytime or gone into his phone or email and read what is there I didn't because why would I? 

But if I had he would have been upset. He also acknowledged that he knew when the shift in the relationship happened, experienced guilt but continued any way. I think this is a huge indicator.

All that being said I have both male and female friends. I think that is ok but when you begin to go somewhere else to feel things or share things you would/should share with a spouse you have crossed the line.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

EAs are kind of like porn.

Hard to define, but you know it when you see it.

It gets even harder because those in an EA can always say "it was innocent!"


----------



## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

The basic test is whether they would be ok allowing their spouse to see a recording of their interaction with this other person. 

Essentially, they know they are cheating on you because they would fear you finding out knowing it would damage the marriage. They know they've crossed over the boundaries of a married person.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

KimatraAKM said:


> I'm starting to see an EA might be a gray area. It may feel like an ea to partner but not to the one doing the talking.
> 
> And in the case of your question. How is the friends response your problem? If friend responds with gross comments or gets into areas you're not comfortable with you're simply done talking or you correct them. If friend gets feelings you simply stop talking. It's super easy to keep it in the friend zone. But some seem to think that the talking at all is the problem. Some feel the intentions are the issue. Some think talking at all with anyone about anything considering a marriage is a problem. It just made me super curious.


Kimatra, you are assuming that everyone plays fair. they do not. In my first marriage, at least two women told me that the friendship that they had with my husband had nothing to do with me. Hookay. One of them was the wife of a close friend of my husband. Not too easy to excise her from our lives.

I've learned that the best solution to a problem is to avoid it completely. If you know that someone is a troublemaker, yu simply avoid them. Someone who can't observe the boundaries in a friendship is not a real friend. I am sure someone who can't stop calling you at 2 am in the morning will not be youfr friend for too much longer. 

But there are boundaries that are much more subtle. That person is grooming you, ever so slowly so that you won't notice, or when you do, you think it's such a little thing, you didn't want to complain.

Another thing that I strongly believe is that a lot of women like EAs because they get all the benefits of being a girlfriend without having to put out. Yes, some women do get off on the idea that "he treats me better than he does his wife." 

I know what you're going to say next, well, if your husband acts that way, leave him. And so I did with the first one. But with the second, I learned something very interesting. Sometimes men just like strong women. -- a women pursuing an EA, is a strong woman and knows what she wants (attention and freebies) and what she doesn't want (sex from that guy who is giving her attention and freebies). 

My telling my (future) husband, quite simply, that if you need this woman in your life, I will be exiting it made him make some decisions very quickly.

You may be villifying married women for keeping their husbands on a short leash -- in your opinion-- but those men are still with their wives and you're still pissed off that you can't just be friends with them ....... on your terms, of course.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Kimatra, you are assuming that everyone plays fair. they do not. In my first marriage, at least two women told me that the friendship that they had with my husband had nothing to do with me. Hookay. One of them was the wife of a close friend of my husband. Not too easy to excise her from our lives.


I agree with you mostly. Not everyone plays fair, but there has to be SOME trust in a marriage. If a wife/husband has to watch everything her husband/wife does and practically control him/her, what kind of marriage is that? And is it even fun? It's not just work.. it's a job. A consuming job.



NextTimeAround said:


> I've learned that the best solution to a problem is to avoid it completely. If you know that someone is a troublemaker, yu simply avoid them. Someone who can't observe the boundaries in a friendship is not a real friend. I am sure someone who can't stop calling you at 2 am in the morning will not be youfr friend for too much longer.


Agreed. But my question was when it becomes an EA. If he/she is calling at 2am obviously something has gone past the point of friendship.



NextTimeAround said:


> But there are boundaries that are much more subtle. That person is grooming you, ever so slowly so that you won't notice, or when you do, you think it's such a little thing, you didn't want to complain.


Yes, but it takes two. It's not just the woman/mans fault. It's both parties that take it over the line. If the husband gets a text/email that says "I wanna have sex with you, lets meet, lets have dinner". That's not his fault... it's only his fault when he says "ok, lets" and means it. I happen to believe you should never be meeting ANYONE you meet online if you're in a relationship. To me that would be over the line. Chatting/flirting/playing around with no intention of ever meeting isn't (to me).



NextTimeAround said:


> Another thing that I strongly believe is that a lot of women like EAs because they get all the benefits of being a girlfriend without having to put out. Yes, some women do get off on the idea that "he treats me better than he does his wife."


But this is all a fantasy. If someone is enjoying that the "Friend" treats them better than their wife/husband, they've crossed the line. That's a line. In such a case you'd be elevating yourself over the partner. That's definitely a problem.



NextTimeAround said:


> I know what you're going to say next, well, if your husband acts that way, leave him.


Knowing what I know now, yeah.  Leave him!



NextTimeAround said:


> And so I did with the first one. But with the second, I learned something very interesting. Sometimes men just like strong women. My telling my (future) husband, quite simply, that if you need this woman in your life, I will be exiting it made him make some decisions very quickly.


Good job! That's a very strong thing to do. Everyone has their own lines. And if a woman told ME her relationship with my husband was none of my business I would have probably done the same.



NextTimeAround said:


> You may be villifying married women for keeping their husbands on a short leash -- in your opinion-- but those men are still with their wives and you're still pissed off that you can't just be friends with them ....... on your terms, of course.


Hehe.. I agree with you. Many people can't handle the just be friends "EA" issue. Believe me... My husband had an EA, the kind where he fell for another woman (she lived 500 miles away). But I've been wondering at what point it becomes an EA is all. 

But also... I held my husband on a short leash for awhile. I was the one telling him not to contact women. Show me all your texts.. show me everything you do.. text me every 5 minutes so I know you still love me. But after a while I realized that me holding him on a short leash wasn't fun. Me worrying every second and obsessing over everything he did wasn't fun. I wasn't having fun... our relationship wasn't just work. It was a job. So I decided something. I was going to give him the rope. If he hangs himself... so be it. If he has a PA or another EA.. so be it. He's gone. There will be no more R. But then again I wasn't a typical BS. I had 6 hours of weak, "why!? I love you! I'll do anything!" and over a month of "Screw you, get out and never come back". I went to a counselor because I knew I wouldn't be able to give my husband a fair chance at R unless someone helped me be forgiving. 

The whole point of this thread was to have a discussion about what exactly an EA is and where that "line" is. I agree with most people here in that it happens when you have "intentions" beyond being friends and chatting. My experiences might be different because most the EA's I think of are people who live hundreds if not thousands of miles apart. Access to each other is difficult.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

KimatraAKM said:


> The whole point of this thread was to have a discussion about what exactly an EA is and where that "line" is. I agree with most people here in that it happens when you have "intentions" beyond being friends and chatting. My experiences might be different because most the EA's I think of are people who live hundreds if not thousands of miles apart. Access to each other is difficult.


Simply put an EA is an addiction. An EA begins when the addiction is starting to be fed deliberately. In other words contact is escalating, choices are being made to increase contact that may not have been made before. Someone in an EA will find excuses to communicate or be with the object of the EA.

Here are a couple of links about the addiction:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/21172-never-say-never.html



> You are not as strong as your mind, and in affair situations your mind IS ON DRUGS. It most often starts as something “innocent” and somewhere along the line it starts… Chemicals get naturally released into the brain.. when fed small doses of "love drugs" i.e. phenylethylamine (or "PEA" -- a naturally occurring trace ammine in the brain. PEA is a natural amphetamine, which leases Dopamine. Dopamine stimulates the production of oxytocin). This begins "intrusive thinking," where it seems like your brain is fixated on the object of your affection. When your heart rules your head, there's actually one part of your brain running the other: the cortex is the area of your brain that controls logical thinking, while emotions are processed by the limbic system. When too many happy chemicals like PEA and dopamine flood your brain, they head straight for the limbic system.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...istinguish-being-love-vs-fog.html#post1033634



> In short your brain responds to people & things by creating neural connections that are mediated by specific neurochemicals. Thus when you are reminded of or see that person your brain circuits fire the recognition and produce those feelings. Those feelings are emotions and are a result of the associations previously created. The emotion of love is closely tied with the reward systems of the brain which are also identified with addiction. Addictions produce a strong desire for more and serve to replace other neural connections to other people and things.
> 
> Now suppose you are married and in long term love but begin to have feelings for another. The addiction components of the c0cktail propel you to escalate contact as much as possible. Soon you get the rush and excitement and you are infatuated when the other. The escalation of contact from the desire to be with the other leads to a reprioritization of what is important. These new priorities are at odds with the marriage and don’t make sense. Furthermore when the oxytocin kicks in and neural connections with the spouse are replaced with the other then links to those old feelings diminish and disappear. This is often noted as rewriting history of the relationship because the way you remember things has changed and is changing. This is the fog. It is noticed more because it is in stark contrast to an existing relationship. Now if you have lost the love for your spouse you will still go through the steps above but your connections to your spouse have already been lost through other means and it is still the fog.





The transition to an addiction happens at different points for different people. For some an EA may never result and for others they are instantly attracted and begin escalating contact. It's a bit like a black hole. Away from the black hole the point of no return is not visible. You can be far away from a black hole and feel its attraction and pull yourself away. But as you get closer it gets harder and harder. There is a point of no return with a black hole where you can't escape. To the person floating in the space is the same until they try to get out and they can't. 

EAs often start as really "just friends" but at some point the priorities shift and considerable effort is put into the relationship and the contact escalates. When the effort and emotional energy put into the relationship causes the marital relationship to diminish or be given a lower priority the relationship is detrimental and is an EA.

You don't need the intention to be in an EA for it to be one. Often the people in an EA don't realize it or may be in various stages of denial.

It can be an EA if only one feels the attraction and is addicted. I was in a one sided EA where the OW was not escalating and to her I was just a friend. My wife noticed it. At no time did I do things that I didn't want my wife to see or know. She knew about 99% of our interactions. The problem was that I developed feelings for the OW by constant low key meaningful exchanges. In isolation any one of the exchanges were really not much. But the constant stream of them and their becoming more frequent was the sign that I was in an EA not so much the magnitude of the exchange. 

You gave an example earlier of a discussion involving sex and what partners did or didnt do and asked if it was an EA. Gus answered it was getting close. You then asked why? The discussion isolated may itself mean nothing but it is emotionally charged and very intimate. This accelerates the escalation because you can get a bigger hit of the feel good neurotransmitters with such a discussion. Because of this acceleration those kinds of discussions should be avoided with others you may be attracted towards. So Gus is exactly right it's getting close.


----------



## meson (May 19, 2011)

Pluto2 said:


> Are the hiding these conversations from their respective spouses?
> 
> The A part of an EA is the betrayal, which usually starts with conversations that you would keep secret from your partner, regardless of whether its sexual or strictly emotional.


It's not just about stuff that's kept secret or hidden though I do agree that this is unfaithful and a betrayal. But it is more than just this. 

It is about where your emotional energies are devoted. In my case there were no conversations that were secret or needed to be secret. For me tha affair part of the EA was that I was unfaithfully investing my emotional energy towards someone else at the expense of my wife. This is the bottom line of what an EA does. It deprives a spouse of the emotional energy that should belong to them.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"If he has a PA or another EA.. so be it. He's gone. There will be no more R."

Fair enough....but why was your RA (a PA at that) not a cause to end R?

btw....did you ever disclose your A to your BH?

Or does he still walk around on eggshells cause you have beaten the above boundary into his head, and he still believes he was the only one to ever cross it in your M?


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

KimatraAKM said:


> Everyone seems so different on their opinions.  so here's a made up conversation as a test... Is the below an ea or not?
> 
> X and Y talk about sex. Things they like. Things they wish their partner would do. Questions about how to approach partner with it. X and Y part with good day/night/bye and that's it. Neither say I love you. Neither are leaving their partners. Maybe they even live countries away. No chance for a PA. They're just talking. No discussions of meeting. But sex is discussed. Maybe even some jokey flirting or teasing/kidding.
> 
> EA?


Don't know about EA but way out of line.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Don't know about EA but way out of line.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

You should never be talking to another man about your sex life and only if he is a doctor and absolutely under no circumstances should there be flirting.

It does not matter about the distance that only makes it difficult to turn it into a PA but it still is cheating.


----------



## Maria Canosa Gargano (Jan 30, 2015)

Dyokemm said:


> "If he has a PA or another EA.. so be it. He's gone. There will be no more R."
> 
> Fair enough....but why was your RA (a PA at that) not a cause to end R?
> 
> ...


Dyokemm, where is this PA that you are talking about? Is it in another thread?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Maria Canosa Gargano said:


> Dyokemm, where is this PA that you are talking about? Is it in another thread?


It would appear that one or more threads have been deleted (the link in her sig points to an invalid thread), but it's sort of detailed here...



Shaggy said:


> So from your other threads I see its no longer a theoretical question and that you chose to have your revenge affair.
> 
> What's your advice to the other readers on if they should do it too?





KimatraAKM said:


> I'd advise that it's always a bad idea if you have to ask other peoples options. If you think for even a minute it might be a bad idea it probably is.
> 
> Never trade your principles away for something like revenge. Revenge is never a good idea no matter what it is. Be the bigger person and get help before you do something stupid like I did. Don't end up like me..
> 
> Feeling bitter is understandable, but get help for it.. don't decide to cure yourself by getting revenge.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "If he has a PA or another EA.. so be it. He's gone. There will be no more R."
> 
> Fair enough....but why was your RA (a PA at that) not a cause to end R?
> 
> ...


Wondering too. So Kim.... You ever fess up or are you still a lying WW? If you haven't come clean, your still cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Here's a pretty good primer:

http://www.goodinbed.com/miniguides/2010/04/emotional-infidelity.php


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Fair enough....but why was your RA (a PA at that) not a cause to end R?


It just finalized the R. I stopped watching my husband as closely after that. There was no reason to, I was no longer the moral one.



Dyokemm said:


> Or does he still walk around on eggshells cause you have beaten the above boundary into his head, and he still believes he was the only one to ever cross it in your M?


He only walked on eggshells for a month, after that he was back to the same ways. His boundaries are don't sleep/ea with the woman again. We never discussed further boundaries. We just said don't contact that woman again and he didn't. So he is by NO means some cowed husband who I have on a short leash. 

But this is off topic. So back to the main reason I asked the question I did. I asked it because some of the responses in this thread had me wondering what everyone considered an EA.  So continue discussion.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

KImatra,

OK...'walking on eggshells' presents an mental image that wasn't really what I was getting at....he doesn't have to display signs of being browbeaten or fear of you for my point to be true.

He still walks around with a clear knowledge in his head that you will tolerate no more sh*t or he is gone.

And there is nothing wrong with this boundary...he should know that after his EA.

Bur in an equal and honest M, he should be aware that you have crossed the boundary also....so he can make his feelings and dealbreakers clear as well....or have the right to end the M because you actually had sex with another man.

In other words, your M is not balanced and honest because one partner is still withholding vital facts from the other.

But back to the topic you want to discuss.

You said in an earlier post that you are now considering the possibility that maybe a WS does not perceive what they are doing as an EA, regardless of what the BS thinks.

I think this can happen...primarily because there is not an objective, indisputable fact that everyone would agree on where a friendship automatically gets reclassified as an EA....everyone would have their own 'breaking point' on this issue.

Have these thoughts made you question if this is what was going on with your H when he was wayward in his EA?

Or did both of you acknowledge it was an EA on Dday or soon after?


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Have these thoughts made you question if this is what was going on with your H when he was wayward in his EA?
> 
> Or did both of you acknowledge it was an EA on Dday or soon after?


Dday we both acknowledged it. I was sitting on my computer with headphones on. He was sitting on his computer with earphones on and a mic as he played his own game.. and he said "I love you too." I pretended I didn't hear him and went to take a shower and figure out what I was going to do. He came and interrupted me, saying he was going to go get some food. I told him go ahead and go, just don't come back. He said "why?" I said "I heard what you said." He said "what did I say?" (man I remember every single moment of that experience. It never goes away) Anyway... after back and forth he admitted he loved her. So yeah. DDay we both acknowledged it.

That experience is probably why I feel the way I do about EA's, but having dealt with many many many contacts online both male and female, I'm somewhat biased.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Kimatra,

That sucks, I'm sorry you has to go through that....it makes sense that it is still and always will be a very painful memory for you....something like that never goes away.

You mention you have had countless interactions with people online.

Do you think your H would classify any of those an EA but you don't think of the interaction that way?

Did your RA involve the same level of emotional attachment as your WH's EA?


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Kimatra,
> 
> That sucks, I'm sorry you has to go through that....it makes sense that it is still and always will be a very painful memory for you....something like that never goes away.


Thank you. I wish it hadn't happened to. it was the beginning of the end.



Dyokemm said:


> You mention you have had countless interactions with people online.
> 
> Do you think your H would classify any of those an EA but you don't think of the interaction that way?


None of my interactions online have been EA's no. Every last person I've talked with I could stop talking at any moment. They are mostly friends I made playing my game. No romantic stuff in any of them. I've had an online presence since I was 15 so have interacted with plenty of people online. I've learned how to keep them just friends. I'm the one who warned my own husband about how easy one can fall into a EA and how he needed to be careful not to get attached.  Irony...



Dyokemm said:


> Did your RA involve the same level of emotional attachment as your WH's EA?


Not at all. There was no relationship other than that we were friends (which we no longer are). And I haven't contacted him in the 3 years since it happened, nor has he contacted me.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Kimatra,

I understand YOU would not see them as EA's.

But we are considering how spouses have different opinions,

Would your H consider any of these interactions to have been over the line at all?

I'm trying to get at that question you first posed about how a WS might not see something as over the line, but the BS disagrees and calls it an EA.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Kimatra,
> 
> I understand YOU would not see them as EA's.
> 
> ...


My husband isn't the normal husband. I wouldn't consider his actions to be anything like a normal person would respond. So I don't think he'd consider any of my conversations an EA. He long ago told me if I had cybersex he wouldn't care. Cybersex is allowed. 

A normal husband? Well... they'd likely consider me borderline. Since that's what most people thought of the made up conversation.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

" He long ago told me if I had cybersex he wouldn't care. Cybersex is allowed."

Interesting.

So he obviously has a high tolerance for what you do online.

How do you think he would react if he knew about your PA?

Would it be a dealbreaker or would he look at it as a problem that could be worked through?

I ask because I know a guy who has the same type of blase attitude towards his W's emotional interactions with other guys, but swears he would kick her out if he ever found out she had a PA.

He seems almost obtuse on the idea that the EA/OA can lead to the PA, so he sets no boundaries on the one side and threatens nuclear destruction of the M on the other.


----------



## KimatraAKM (May 1, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> How do you think he would react if he knew about your PA?
> 
> Would it be a dealbreaker or would he look at it as a problem that could be worked through?


Yeah, he'd be mad. But less about what I did and more about "If I'd known I could have been doing it too" He'd also hold it over me forever. He wouldn't get a divorce. He'd threaten if I ever tried to leave him he would take me for everything I have and I'd never see the kids again. I know him pretty well. He'd use it. He'd use it to win every argument, to belittle me even more, to threaten me and keep me in line. Maybe I'd deserve that, but I also don't want to get into a never ending circle of you cheat, I cheat...



Dyokemm said:


> I ask because I know a guy who has the same type of blase attitude towards his W's emotional interactions with other guys, but swears he would kick her out if he ever found out she had a PA.
> 
> He seems almost obtuse on the idea that the EA/OA can lead to the PA, so he sets no boundaries on the one side and threatens nuclear destruction of the M on the other.


Well it depends on the woman, I guess. If she really IS only playing around and is taking steps to assure it doesn't go past play.. well then maybe she could do it. But I don't think in a marriage that was happy she'd feel a need.  As someone said before, if the marriage was meeting all his/her needs, they wouldn't need the teasing, etc of another party. (the advice I could understand though. Advice from nameless strangers has been helpful for me!) I'm not blaming the missing piece on the husband. I'd consider something was missing and it was time to find out what it was and fix it. Because even if she can control herself, she's making herself vulnerable.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Because even if she can control herself, she's making herself vulnerable."

That's sort of the crux of the issue right there.

He pooh poohs the vulnerability issue.

He doesn't check her at all, so she is often very flirty and 'BFFs' with other guys.

He treats her very well, and sort of assumes this makes him invulnerable to her having a PA.

She seems to love him very much, and I've never seen her do anything insulting or blatantly disrespectful to him....I would actually be surprised to find she had a PA on him.

But without him raising a fuss, she seems to feel free to flirt, tease. and emotionally connect with guys as friends.

I just find it a bit like playing with fire.....my friend is a very prideful guy and I have no doubt he would blow up the M if it did happen.

He has told me that he discussed with her, and she knows PA is the death knell of their M....he trusts that they are happy enough together that she will never allow it.

I hope it doesn't blow up in his face one day.

In your situation Kimatra,

I get your point about not wanting to get caught in that cycle of cheating.

It makes me sorry though that you already in that cycle, but he is clueless about it.

You seem to describe your M as some form of limbo...no R was really done to deal with his EA because you felt you had to drop the issue after you cheated.

But it doesn't sound as if your M has healed at all....after 1 month and then you dropping it, he probably has the opinion that it was no big deal and you got over it.

The pain you still feel over the Dday of his EA shows that is not even close to being true.

But you fear dealing with this issue cause you would either have to disclose your A or feel like the biggest hypocrite....so you choose to do or say nothing.

It sounds sad....I truly hope you can one day get everything out into the open with your H and fix your M...or come to a mutually respectful way for both of you to move on and be happy if the damage is too great.

Living in a dead to mediocre M is no way to live the rest of your life.


----------



## Abel402 (Jan 26, 2015)

As some of you know, I have been going through a situation with my wife and her friendship (and whatever else) with one of her male co workers. She started the job 2 years ago and its a small company where most of the employees are pretty good friends. I knew from the beginning she and some of the other employees of similar age were fairly close and I didn't mind. She had been really miserable at her last jobs and I saw this as her finally having a good job that she actually enjoyed going to work to.

In my situation, she was closer to one guy at her work than the rest and I didn't think nothing of it.... one day I got a gut feeling something was wrong, checked her phone and saw what I thought to be a inappropriate work relationship going on.

Upon bringing the topic up to my wife she played it off as being not a big deal. The topics and just the feel of the conversation between the two of them in my opinion started crossing the line... (commenting how the other looked today...etc) and flirting coming from my wife. I read through 4 months of texts and when I confronted her and blew up.... the texts stop. So to me, she either realized what she was doing was wrong or she realized how sloppy she had been hiding it and is now more careful.


----------

