# Emotional Affair



## 00SMI00

Hi people. I'm new here and think this is a great web site. My wife and I have been seeing a MC since February. I've had issues with her job taking her out of town every now and then. It's a long story but my biggest fear is that she would hook up with someone but I knew that was just me being paranoid. Well she went out of town for a few days in march. I always get
Pissy with her right before she leaves because I just don't like it and we have two kids. They don't like it either. Anyway she made it a point to take care of me by giving me some great sex! The best we have had in a long time. I felt fine for once with her going on this trip. 
Well she comes home after a few days disconnected as hell. I knew something was up. So I started checking phone and text messages and sure enough there is a strange number on there. And she had the nerve to put him on our friends and family plan. Just kind of slipped him in there. She has a lot of friends and contacts thru work and a many are male and I really don't have a problem with her having male friends. I know most of these people. But my gut just said something is not right here. By the way always trust your gut feeling! I confronted her about him. She says he's just a friend and nothing happend. Yeah right ok! Well I figured out on my own who this guy was name address married too. A VP of a hospital no less and about ten years older then she is. I'm 42 and she is 40. 
She admitted she met him on this trip at the bar in the hotel. It's been the biggest emotional roller coaster I have ever been on. She denied and denied then I really pushed. And then she said she loved him! She only knew him a couple weeks. She was completely enamored with him. Well after some crazy stuff on both our parts we are on the road to recovery. However I did find an occasional text between them. That made me crazy so I basically let him know via text that if he didn't back off he would have problems! He couldn't apologize enough and claimed I was way off base. The same crap she said so I'm thinking it was in the early stages and was an emotional affair. I have been clear and honest with her and I even told her what I did. She actually didn't give me much grief about it. She says she is committed to making this work. 
The problem I'm having is now she doesn't want to have sex and says she just needs time to feel the closeness again. This is a hard pill for me to swallow. Is this normal after all that has went on? And by the way she is not talking to this guy as far as I can tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

they had sex.


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## keko

So they met at the hotel bar but nothing happened? 

Then your wife doesn't want to have sex with you? Its clear she is getting it from someone else.


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## Maricha75

Yea... she added this guy to the cell plan. Get a clue. It's much more than an emotional affair. And, I'd be more surprised if she DIDN'T get a burner phone than if she did.


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## tacoma

Oh they definitely had sex.

Here`s a bit of advice for the future.

When your woman has done something to piss you off or she wants something you don`t or she wants to do something you don`t want her to and the mood between you is bad, if she suddenly wants to bang you like you`ve never been laid before she`s not doing it for the sex,love,intimacy, she`s doing it because it is her way of manipulating you, her way of appeasing you and taking your mind off the bull**** she wants you to forget or ok.

That`s why you had great sex right before she left, she wanted you appeased so she could go be with her OM.

You allowed yourself to be manipulated like a typical stupid male.

She doesn`t want to have sex now because she thinks you`re taking her new toy away from her and she`s punishing you.


The first thing you should do is contact the OM`s wife and inform her of the affair.

What was the content of the texts?
Sexual?
Love talk?
What?


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## 00SMI00

I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


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## keko

Which brand phone is she using? 

Can you check her emails?


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## tacoma

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


You my friend are the 400th dude to come through here this week starting his second post with ..

"I really don`t think so...."

Their 9-10th post is usually..

"Oh my god I found text messages on her phone telling him how much she loved his **** the other night...."

BTW she needs to quit her job too.
Even if by some miracle she didn`t sleep with him she has lost the extreme trust it takes for her to be away anywhere overnight.


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## 00SMI00

Wow you people tell it like it is. You might be right. They met at the hotel. This has not been going on long. Not a stupid male here. The stupid ass is the wife that got busted.


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## 00SMI00

I'm going off of text and phone records from the bill not the actual text.


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## keko

Which phone is she using? If its a smartphone you might be able tog et her deleted texts.


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## 00SMI00

she wasn't smart enough to get a "burner phone.


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## warlock07

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


Read the stories here. Some cheating spouses lie even with hard evidence in front of them. Some would lie to their death if not for the proof.

Try to bluff that you are going to get the texts from the carrier through a court order.(If she is naive like that). Tell her you will divorce her if one more lie comes out but she has a 24 hr period to totally come clean


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## Maricha75

00SMI00 said:


> she wasn't smart enough to get a "burner phone.


.... that you know of.


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


That's what I thought, with my husband, who I've known for 20 years! Everyone thinks that. You marry someone because you're sure they're life partner material. You think you know everything about them.

Here is the issue: in order for her to betray the marriage by even thinking about getting together with another man, she first has to lie to herself. If she is psychologically normal, she has to mentally compartmentalize the marriage and the impermissible relationship.

Why lie to herself this way? Because this is a fantasy. Affairs come about as escapes from reality.

I do have one thought, though. While a lot of cheaters become infatuated very swiftly, two weeks seems like a stretch to me. Do not be surprised if you discover they've known each other for longer.

But that aside, the point is, the fantasy is powerful. She isn't going to end it just because you're angry and hurt. If that was all it took--she would never have entered into the affair in the first place! She KNOWS this would make you angry and hurt. But she did it anyway.

Lots of people believe they can read their spouse--and then the stumble upon infidelity. Your wife is POWERFULLY motivated to lie as skillfully as she possibly can. After all--she said it herself--she is in LOVE with him. (She's not--it isn't possible because it's not based on reality. But it feels like it to her.) So if you were powerfully infatuated with someone--would you just roll over and abandon this fantasy you've crafted for yourself? Think again.


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## tacoma

00SMI00 said:


> Wow you people tell it like it is. You might be right. They met at the hotel. This has not been going on long. Not a stupid male here. The stupid ass is the wife that got busted.



I didn`t mean anything by the "stupid male" comment, I`ve been that stupid male myself.


I was wrong earlier, you can`t expose her yet as it doesn`t seem you have nearly enough evidence.

I`m sure some folks will be along to give ou the low down on how to get it though.

And nobody wants to believe they`ve just been betrayed by their closest friend and lover.
It often takes a little harsh verbiage to wake them up.

You seem to wake up quick though.


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## Shaggy

You don't go from hey stranger to I'm in love without some sex involved in this case.

You need to expose him and adopt a 0 tolerance policy on continued contact.

Find if he is married or a has a GF. Heck, find out what he likes for breakfast. I recommend hiring good PI and get the facts on him. Then contact his wife/gf/mother and expose that this guy has slept with your wife and is continuing to contact her.

she slept with him, and continues to contact him. She's not working on R, she's working on placating you so she can continue her affair.

Drop a VAR into her car, and check your phone records as well as drop a keylogger on your PC to get her passwords. You want to them to think they have safe communication, and you want to listen in and to read it.

Next, if she claims no sex and to be working on the marriage, demand a polygraph test. Google "polygraph test" and the city/county you live in. You'll find a bunch of providers, expect to pay $200-500. 

I know you don't like anything I said. That doesn't make me wrong however. 

If you forgive her, if you shower her with love you will only push her into his arms. You need to call her on her stuff, hold her accountable, and demand she work to earn the right to be with you. I know it's not what your gut is tell you, but it is what works. You need to make her work for you - to make yourself something she has to earn back.

and dude, she had sex with him.


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## Shaggy

When you gave he complete amnesty she didn't tell you the truth because:

1. She didn't really believe you.
2. She didn't want to betray him
3. She is keeping you as a back up plan if he doesn't work out.

You need to make the affair embarrassing and costly for both of them. You do this by exposing it to friends, family, and ESPECIALLY his friends, family, and WIFE.


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## Will_Kane

*now she doesn't want to have sex and says she just needs time to feel the closeness again. This is a hard pill for me to swallow. Is this normal after all that has went on?*

This is not normal. She was having sex with you before the affair and during the affair, now that it's over she no longer wants to have sex with you.

Most cheating spouses, when caught and truly remorseful, are blubbering crying messes. They want to do anything to make it right. They would love to have sex because it means you are willing to forgive them.

The fact that you want to have sex and she does not want to shows a lack of remorse on her part.

It is very possible that she still is in contact with him.

I agree with the others that they almost definitely had sex.

Also, it's unlikely this was a new relationship.

You were in MC in February because you were paranoid of her having an affair, turns out you weren't paranoid after all, you caught her in March, likely it was going on for some time before that, even before February.

The reason she doesn't tell you the truth even though you gave her "amnesty" is threefold: (1) she wants to protect the other man from exposure, thus prolonging her affair with him, (2) it's more convenient for her to minimize the affair so you won't be as upset and you will drop your guard and she can go back to the affair, and (3) she doesn't believe you really won't hold it against her if she tells you the full truth. Even completely remorseful spouses almost never come totally clean and your wife does not seem at all remorseful.


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## Will_Kane

Ask your wife to handwrite a "no contact" letter to the other man, stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and how terrible she feels about risking losing her family, marriage, and husband, which are the most important things in the world to her, and that if the other man ever attempts to contact her again, she will file harassment charges against him. Then let her give you the letter so you can have it delivered.

Tell your wife you need her to be totally transparent. No more secrets. Tell her you want her to give you complete access to all communication devices and accounts.

You want to get the truth. Tell your wife that her story simply is not believable. It's not believable that she fell in love with the other man so quickly and added him to your cell plan unless the affair was going on a lot longer and she was having sex with him. It's not believable that they met in a hotel bar and did not have sex. Stick to your guns. Her story is theoretically possible, but highly improbable and not believable. If she continues to stick to the same story, ask your wife to submit to a polygraph test as to whether or not she had sex with the other man and as to whether or not she remains in contact. Set it up and go through with it.

Tell your wife that if she does not meet the above conditions, you will file for divorce. Then, if she doesn't, file for divorce. You can always stop the divorce if she decides to meet your conditions. If you are used to giving in to your wife and letting her get her way, she may not believe you will file and she will think she can continue to lie to you and you won't really do anything about it.

Tell your wife that having sex with her would help you get over the affair. Sex is a normal part of marriage. If she wants to move forward, she should give it a try.

Next, expose the affair to the other man's wife. Let the other man's wife know what you know and ask her if she has any knowledge. Ask her to help you end the affair or prevent it from starting up again. Be direct, brief, and sympathetic. Do not tell your wife that you are doing this.

Accept the fact that your marriage may end no matter what you do. You have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it.

You probably don't think your marriage is in serious trouble, but these cheaters follow a script, it really is remarkable how similar they all act, look at these forums, your wife is following the script of someone who is not remorseful and not ready to REALLY work on your marriage, but of someone who still is in the affair, at least mentally, and still lying to you.


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## iheartlife

Will_Kane said:


> Tell your wife that having sex with her would help you get over the affair. Sex is a normal part of marriage. If she wants to move forward, she should give it a try.


Will Kane, I look forward to each of your posts and I agree with most everything you've written in this thread.

My only thought on this issue is to alert the OP to the fact that affair sex is generally unprotected sex (shocking, I know) and I recommend using a condom until you are both tested for STDs. I realize right now she is saying she didn't have sex and you are choosing to believe her, but I want to get this idea in your head early on so if you discover the worst is true, this bizarre but true fact about affair sex doesn't somehow come back to bite you later.


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## sunshinetoday

Great advice from everyone, I just also wanted to add: I also think they had sex. Gather your evidence and let the OM's W in on things. She has a right to know as well.

_-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


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## jnj express

For starters---DEMAND a poly ---use the nearest police facility, to recommend a good operator---do not hide the fact you are checking on Poly, operators----she has to know you are deadly serious----

2nd---since she now cannot be trusted when out of town---she does not go out of town ANYMORE---if job requires it----job is gone---it is now your mge, vs that job, and that job is what has caused all of this drama----your kids deserve better, that DO NOT NEED A MOTHER WHO CHEATS, and who will eventually cause their lives to be blown apart.

She doesn't want sex with you---cuz he is even now as we speak, firmly entrenched in her mind, and the probable sex she had with him, just may have you far back in 2nd place in the sex act itself, and how she compares the 2 of you

As has already been said---you just don't go away for a short length of time---meet someone for the FIRST time, and come back in love with that person---unless some very specific actions caused that to happen

It also could very possibly be, she already knew this guy, and was just continuing on with an already in progress A.---that may be why you got such hot sex before she left---she was just keeping you under control.

You need to do 2 other things----Both of you need to get tested for STD-----and you definitely MUST tell her lovers wife, what is happening----the other wife, can help you keep tabs on what is going on---and she deserves to know, so she can plan her future accordingly.

You need to be somewhat forceful, and harsh about all this---as she HAS to know you are DEADLY serious!!!!!!!


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## Shaggy

You need to demand a resolution to the no sex stuff she is feeding you, because the real reason behind it is that she is hooking up with him, and doesn't want to betray him by having sex with you.

She is your wife, but she has chosen to be another man's sex partner, and she hopes to be his gf. If he called at 3AM and said meet me in my car to have sex, you would find yourself alone in bed at 3:01am and her out the door.

Her lies about why she won't have sex and a game she is playing to put you off.


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## Chaparral

jnj express said:


> For starters---DEMAND a poly ---use the nearest police facility, to recommend a good operator---do not hide the fact you are checking on Poly, operators----she has to know you are deadly serious----
> 
> 2nd---since she now cannot be trusted when out of town---she does not go out of town ANYMORE---if job requires it----job is gone---it is now your mge, vs that job, and that job is what has caused all of this drama----your kids deserve better, that DO NOT NEED A MOTHER WHO CHEATS, and who will eventually cause their lives to be blown apart.
> 
> She doesn't want sex with you---cuz he is even now as we speak, firmly entrenched in her mind, and the probable sex she had with him, just may have you far back in 2nd place in the sex act itself, and how she compares the 2 of you
> 
> As has already been said---you just don't go away for a short length of time---meet someone for the FIRST time, and come back in love with that person---unless some very specific actions caused that to happen
> 
> It also could very possibly be, she already knew this guy, and was just continuing on with an already in progress A.---that may be why you got such hot sex before she left---she was just keeping you under control.
> 
> You need to do 2 other things----Both of you need to get tested for STD-----and you definitely MUST tell her lovers wife, what is happening----the other wife, can help you keep tabs on what is going on---and she deserves to know, so she can plan her future accordingly.
> 
> You need to be somewhat forceful, and harsh about all this---as she HAS to know you are DEADLY serious!!!!!!!


Many here advise not telling your wife in advance of a poly. The reason they give is that given time, a person can find ways ,on the internet, to beat a poly. 

It looks nearly unanimous she had sex and previously knew OM. Dig deeper into her cell/text, email records. No transparency will mean the worst.

Number one priority should be to out the OM to his family.

Good luck


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## Chaparral

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


If you read enough threads here, you will find cheaters will swear on their own babies lives while lying through their teeth. Just like a crack/heroin addict. The addition to the OM can be broken but it is hard to do. Follow ALL the steps suggested to break up an affair although some seem to go against the grain.


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## Chaparral

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


Complete amnesty was given, she's lying, complete amnesty can be taken away. Make sure you are holding divorce over her head like Damacles' sword. Her mouth is lying, her actions,no sex, is telling you everyhthing you need to know to jump on this affair with every tool you can muster.


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## happyman64

OOSM100,

You have gotten some good advice from a few of the veterans on this forum.

Please take their advice.

It is clearly obvious that your wife has lied to you.

It is clearly obvious this has been going on longer than a few weeks.

It is clearly obvious she has slept with him.

Amnesty means nothing to a cheater. And your wife is a cheater.

The sooner you realize it the sooner you can nip her adulterous behaviors in the butt.

Plant a VAR in her car. That might tell you if she has stopped talking to him there. She could do it at work. As soon as she admitted she has feelings for him that should be a big warning for you to dig deeper without her knowing you are doing this.

Alsowatch the bank accounts to see how much money she is pulling out or where she is spending it like at walmart for a 2nd disposable phone.

And tell us what kind of phone she has. Someone might be able to tell you how to retrieve her texts so you know what they say to each other.

And if the OM is married then burn him and his reputation. Expose the cheaters when you have the evidence.

Just be careful my man. And good luck in reining her in.

HM64


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## Kallan Pavithran

Bs always wanted to believe what their WSs says because they dont want to shatter their world, They always think they know the WS very well and want to believe they can never lie to them and even if they lie BS can identify it easily as they know them well, but the truth is always the opposite.

You want to believe her words that they met at bar and simply talked in the hotel without sex, but you also know that what lovers do when they are alone in a hotel room.

Gather maximum evidence of their A, expose them. Dont think that she thrown him under the bus for you, It happen only when she is truly remorseful and understand the damage she caused to you and her family. 
She may have took it underground, but a key logger, GPS and VAR can help you to find the truth.

Demand for a polygraph and see her reaction.


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## bryanp

She met the OM at the hotel and I sure they just discussed world affairs. She no longer has sex with you. I am sure there is no coincidence to this.
1. You are in major denial.
2. Both of you get tested for STD's
3. See a lawyer for various options.
4. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.
5. Giving her blanket amnesty was the worst thing you could have done. You sent a message that she can do anything without consequences. There was absolutely no reason for her to tell you the whole truth. She now sees her husband as the ultimate doormat. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


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## Chaparral

Tell your wife you are going to get an std test and schedule one for her. Among the reasons already given for her not having sex with you could be her fear of having contracted something and infecting you.

Have you had sex since she came back or just not had sex since you busted her? 

Another barb you could throw would be to ask the OM and his wife if they have any STDs. Puts the affair in the tawdry light it deseves.


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## lordmayhem

00SMI00, any updates? You've had the chance to read the responses here. You're getting what I never got when I first discovered her EA: Good advice from people who've been through it.


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## 00SMI00

lordmayhem said:


> 00SMI00, any updates? You've had the chance to read the responses here. You're getting what I never got when I first discovered her EA: Good advice from people who've been through it.


Thanks for the advice. I know for a fact that this thing started on this trip. Also the guy lives 400 miles away. I know everything I need to know about him and can make one phone call and rock his world. And yes we have sex about every week and a half. Just not as often as I like. My gut tells me what ever this was its over. He has a lot to lose if this gets out. I have worked on me and she is working on her. If something else is going on it will come out. Not planting a VAR or a lie detector. That's just crazy sorry don't want to offend anyone but if it gets to that point I'm out. Not playing that game!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

00SMI00 said:


> If something else is going on it will come out. Not planting a VAR or a lie detector. That's just crazy sorry don't want to offend anyone but if it gets to that point I'm out. Not playing that game!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can respect that.


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Not planting a VAR or a lie detector. That's just crazy sorry don't want to offend anyone but if it gets to that point I'm out. Not playing that game!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I realize there is no persuading you. The fact that I have advanced degrees and am in my forties, that I both knew my husband for longer and have been married to him longer than you, does not impress you.

After I found out about my husband's EA, we entered marriage counseling. I worked very hard on myself. I have never been a wimp, and never intentionally swept his affair under a rug.

But I was very uneducated about the intricacies, and rather boring predictability, of affairs and cheating spouses. So I never once verified that he was not in contact with her.

That choice only cost me three more years of my life. I discovered they were still in contact when he accidentally texted me.

We've made huge progress on our marriage in just a few short weeks. Progress that we didn't make with 6 mos of expensive counseling three years ago.

It's painful to watch someone make the mistakes I made, but sadly cheating persists because most spouses have to learn these things for themselves, the hard way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07

> Not planting a VAR or a lie detector. That's just crazy sorry don't want to offend anyone but if it gets to that point I'm out. Not playing that game!


Most people don't want to. But you sometimes don't want to end the relationship based on a suspicion or gut feeling. remember, your wife isn't you. The set of morals do not apply to her. Good luck


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> I realize there is no persuading you. The fact that I have advanced degrees and am in my forties, that I both knew my husband for longer and have been married to him longer than you, does not impress you.
> 
> After I found out about my husband's EA, we entered marriage counseling. I worked very hard on myself. I have never been a wimp, and never intentionally swept his affair under a rug.
> 
> But I was very uneducated about the intricacies, and rather boring predictability, of affairs and cheating spouses. So I never once verified that he was not in contact with her.
> 
> That choice only cost me three more years of my life. I discovered they were still in contact when he accidentally texted me.
> 
> We've made huge progress on our marriage in just a few short weeks. Progress that we didn't make with 6 mos of expensive counseling three years ago.
> 
> It's painful to watch someone make the mistakes I made, but sadly cheating persists because most spouses have to learn these things for themselves, the hard way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your correct not impressed with the advanced degrees. There are plenty educated idiots in the world and no I'm not knocking you. Believe me if something is still going on they will mess up and get cought. He has an MBA and is a VP. Just another jackass try to get a piece as far as I'm concerned. We are also in MC and I think it's helped a lot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt

00SMI00 said:


> Wow you people tell it like it is. You might be right. They met at the hotel. This has not been going on long. Not a stupid male here. The stupid ass is the wife that got busted.


All males are stupid. It's what we do best. (Well, so my wife tells me!)


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Your correct not impressed with the advanced degrees. There are plenty educated idiots in the world and no I'm not knocking you. Believe me if something is still going on they will mess up and get cought. He has an MBA and is a VP. Just another jackass try to get a piece as far as I'm concerned. We are also in MC and I think it's helped a lot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, what I was trying to point out is that unfortunately, not only do people with advanced degrees act like fools, like the OM, but they can also _be_ fooled by their spouses who they've known for a very long time.

You do know your own situation best, and certainly if things go south, please know I am the last person who would ever say I told you so to anyone.


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## sunshinetoday

I respect ur decision not to spy, but just know sometimes it's helps the betrayed spouse,in my case the H did everything right after Dday. Total transparency ect....the snooping I then did was for me, I was trusting him, but I couldn't trust my own judgment for a few months. Anyhow glad you are doing MC and I wish you the best. 

_-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


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## iheartlife

sunshinetoday said:


> I respect ur decision not to spy, but just know sometimes it's helps the betrayed spouse,in my case the H did everything right after Dday. Total transparency ect....the snooping I then did was for me, I was trusting him, but I couldn't trust my own judgment for a few months. Anyhow glad you are doing MC and I wish you the best.
> 
> _-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


That is a good point, sorry to post again, but it may surprise you to know that our current MC told me in front of my husband to install spyware and backup software on my husband's phone. It was both to reduce my anxiety and to prove his loyalty to me. He also quizzed my husband on how to prove he wasn't in contact and discussed an "ending ritual" for the affair (meaning a no contact letter as often suggested around here). I'm not going to speculate what might have happened if our first MC three years ago had done these simple things, which took about 45 minutes to discuss. Too painful and water under the bridge anyhow.

Edited to add, software as mentioned is not a long-term solution. In the end, as you've already said, you have to give yourself up to trusting them again, or simply end the relationship. But immediately after an affair has been entered and I love you's exchanged, the cheater is very very weak. It doesn't take much for them to chuck the hard work of the marriage and run back to the fantasy.


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> That is a good point, sorry to post again, but it may surprise you to know that our current MC told me in front of my husband to install spyware and backup software on my husband's phone. It was both to reduce my anxiety and to prove his loyalty to me. He also quizzed my husband on how to prove he wasn't in contact and discussed an "ending ritual" for the affair (meaning a no contact letter as often suggested around here). I'm not going to speculate what might have happened if our first MC three years ago had done these simple things, which took about 45 minutes to discuss. Too painful and water under the bridge anyhow.
> 
> Edited to add, software as mentioned is not a long-term solution. In the end, as you've already said, you have to give yourself up to trusting them again, or simply end the relationship. But immediately after an affair has been entered and I love you's exchanged, the cheater is very very weak. It doesn't take much for them to chuck the hard work of the marriage and run back to the fantasy.


Well I think the love stuff was one way. I think he basically told her he wasn't leaving his wife. This is my own speculation. Its a long story but this is what I and the MC have come up with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fvstringpicker

iheartlife said:


> But immediately after an affair has been entered and I love you's exchanged, the cheater is very very weak. It doesn't take much for them to chuck the hard work of the marriage and run back to the fantasy.


It seems that would be a big win for the betrayed spouse; especially if the culprits gathered their things and sailed off into the sunset together.


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## Shaggy

If you can make the call an trash his life, then make the call. Ruin his parade, and show him and her there are consequences for playing I your backyard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Well I think the love stuff was one way. I think he basically told her he wasn't leaving his wife. This is my own speculation. Its a long story but this is what I and the MC have come up with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would explain why (at least according to your feelings and descriptions) she's engaged in working on the marriage. That is a bit of rarity, as you've probably gathered after 3 pages of posts.

Have you drafted a No Contact (NC) letter, had her write it up in her handwriting, and delivered certified mail to the OM. There are standard versions available on the forum.

I would also contact his wife. You may be a lucky bastard a second time and scared him off by confronting him directly, but the forum is littered with the bodies of betrayed spouses who tried that and found out that the OM will say one thing to your face while making a secret end run for your wife. Affair partners of both sexes, in general, have nothing but contempt for the loyal spouse, they perceive them as gullible losers who can't keep their partners happy and therefore deserve their spouse cheating on them and they're more than happy to help them out with that.

Have you raised the topic of the lack of sex with the marriage counselor present?

Do you feel that she is genuinely remorseful? if you aren't sure what remorse is in a cheating spouse, there's a helpful chart around here to figure out if she's showing true remorse to you.

Do you feel that the MC is adequately addressing her infidelity--i.e., why she thought it was appropriate to break marital boundaries in this way? Another thing to avoid at all cost is "rug-sweeping" whereby you are in such a rush to "get over" the affair that you don't address the deep underlying causes of the affair. Working on the marriage, and changing what you can to improve your side of things, is obviously part of avoiding rug-sweeping. But she has to look deep inside of herself too. She made some very stupid, but extremely calculated and conscious choices, and she needs to fully face them to your satisfaction.


----------



## lordmayhem

00SMI00 said:


> Well I think the love stuff was one way. I think he basically told her he wasn't leaving his wife. This is my own speculation. Its a long story but this is what I and the MC have come up with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're just guessing alright. How would you know? How would you know if she or he start contacting each other again? How would you start to rebuild trust again? Because you know its just crazy to spy. Wemust all be crazy here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

That must really suck not knowing if your still getteing burned or not. So when is her next out of town work trip? I guess you can count on some good sex that night. 

Sorry but her next trip is going to be a killer for you...not know whats really going on with her. I hope you can figure something out that will put your mind at eas. 

How can you not wonder what she is up to, knowing what she is capable of?

I mean its one thing to know for a fact that your spouse acts like you are always right next to her no matter how far apart you are. A boundry that one has. But it completely different when your spouse has one behavior in front of you and another behavior when she is not. A lack of boundries that would concern me greatly.


----------



## keko

Ignorance is a bliss....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Machiavelli

lordmayhem said:


> Because you know its just crazy to spy. We must all be crazy here.


OP doesn't realize there is a war on.


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## OldWolf57

why have you not exposed his guy to his wife ?? Even if, as you say, she was just a piece, don't you think his wife should know he is putting her health at risk ? This guy sounds like the type that keeps a string. I bet your wife is not his 1st. So do other possible BH a favor and reck this guy's party. You and the wife have a lot of work to do, but this guy sounds just to practiced.


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## 00SMI00

the guy said:


> That must really suck not knowing if your still getteing burned or not. So when is her next out of town work trip? I guess you can count on some good sex that night.
> 
> Sorry but her next trip is going to be a killer for you...not know whats really going on with her. I hope you can figure something out that will put your mind at eas.
> 
> How can you not wonder what she is up to, knowing what she is capable of?
> 
> I mean its one thing to know for a fact that your spouse acts like you are always right next to her no matter how far apart you are. A boundry that one has. But it completely different when your spouse has one behavior in front of you and another behavior when she is not. A lack of boundries that would concern me greatly.


Well guy the reason I knew something was up in the first place is by her actions. This woman can say one thing but her actions are saying something else. I still hawk the phone records and everything else I can do short of planting a VAR. Yes she has already been on another trip and yes I did wonder but so far she has acted normal. She is just not good at hiding it. That's good for me. If I see that again I'm not worried about busting her. I'm leaving her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Overtime cheaters gain experience and can live a double life without their spouse noticing a single difference.


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## 00SMI00

OldWolf57 said:


> why have you not exposed his guy to his wife ?? Even if, as you say, she was just a piece, don't you think his wife should know he is putting her health at risk ? This guy sounds like the type that keeps a string. I bet your wife is not his 1st. So do other possible BH a favor and reck this guy's party. You and the wife have a lot of work to do, but this guy sounds just to practiced.


Listen I know it may sound like I'm being too relaxed about this. But unless I have an admission of guilt or hard evidence I'm not going to blow up another family and yes he might be just a piece of **** that deserves it. You people are sure of this being physical but I'm not. I have to live with myself if I did this with out hard evidence. Plus do you think his wife is completely in the dark if something happend. Not likely. It's early I'm going to wait and see like I said if something happend or is happening it will come out and I'll move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 00SMI00

Hey just curious how may of you out there are still married to the cheaters? And did you figure out why they cheated?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

00SMI00 said:


> Hey just curious how may of you out there are still married to the cheaters? And did you figure out why they cheated?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I divorced mine but she had a self-esteem issue's. She couldn't keep her skirt down when someone complemented her. I don't think I could have lived with the trigger's and mind movies.


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Hey just curious how may of you out there are still married to the cheaters? And did you figure out why they cheated?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am reconciled and he is recommitted. There are lots of reasons why, when I have a moment I'll come back and say more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Peachy Cat

I could never stay married, or in any real relationship, with a Cheater. 

I have trust issues already...


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## snap

00SMI00 said:


> But unless I have an admission of guilt or hard evidence I'm not going to blow up another family and yes he might be just a piece of **** that deserves it.


And how would you get that hard evidence if you are not looking for it?

So basically your plan is expecting honesty from a liar. Well, good luck with that.


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## 00SMI00

snap said:


> And how would you get that hard evidence if you are not looking for it?
> 
> So basically your plan is expecting honesty from a liar. Well, good luck with that.


Oh but I am looking for it. And I will find it if it's there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Ya I'm still with my fWW.

Back in the day she cheated b/c of validation issues and came from an abusive home, and low self esteem issues.

Back in the day I was really cruel all the way around and it was easier to turn her out then deal with all her crap. 

These days she takes care of her issues and I take care of my issues and we just keep running into each other in bed.

Even if we both had unhealthy behaviors in the past, there is no reason that we can get the tools to have healthy ones now and share them together.


I totaly get what your saying and sure you can gage your spouses actions, but with out validating my fWW action with out back up, it can be concerning in that the dicisions I make are based on fact and not just a perception of my fWW additude that day.


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## 00SMI00

Like I said i have only told parts of the story. If something is going on he must be flying into town and spending time with her a few minutes here and there. He must be paying for everything because I control our finances I know what she makes and it all goes into one account. Hey maybe she doesn't even go to work half the time. Maybe she is flying up to see him for the day and getting back in time to pick kids up from daycare. Oops there goes my mind wondering again. Listen I'm not trying to poke fun at some of you but come on. All I can do is be the best me I can. I have made mistakes and take responsibilty for it. I didn't show her the attention I should have. I am the best thing going for her and she needs to figure that out on her own. I'm not fooling my self and I accept the fact that some bad stuff happened between them. Me running around trying to bug her car and demand that she take a polygraph. And she send a good by letter to this guy is not making me look like the best option here. That will just push her away. In the end I want to be able to say I tried and if it didnt work that's on her not me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

Its all good brother, we're here to give you support, ideas, perspective, and armchair advice. Its up to you to take all of it in and pick and choose what works for you.

Alls we have to offer is experience and opinions... we can be either right or wrong, at the end of the day it all up to you my man.


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## livnlearn

00SMI00 said:


> Like I said i have only told parts of the story. If something is going on he must be flying into town and spending time with her a few minutes here and there. He must be paying for everything because I control our finances I know what she makes and it all goes into one account. Hey maybe she doesn't even go to work half the time. Maybe she is flying up to see him for the day and getting back in time to pick kids up from daycare. Oops there goes my mind wondering again. Listen I'm not trying to poke fun at some of you but come on. All I can do is be the best me I can. I have made mistakes and take responsibilty for it. I didn't show her the attention I should have. I am the best thing going for her and she needs to figure that out on her own. I'm not fooling my self and I accept the fact that some bad stuff happened between them. Me running around trying to bug her car and demand that she take a polygraph. And she send a good by letter to this guy is not making me look like the best option here. That will just push her away. In the end I want to be able to say I tried and if it didnt work that's on her not me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm totally with you in regards to this OOS. If faith in my spouse has been so shattered that it takes his passing a polygraph and bugging his car for me to feel confident that he is being honest...well then for me, it's all over anyway. 

I'm sorry you're in this situation...


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## iheartlife

livnlearn said:


> I'm totally with you in regards to this OOS. If faith in my spouse has been so shattered that it takes his passing a polygraph and bugging his car for me to feel confident that he is being honest...well then for me, it's all over anyway.
> 
> I'm sorry you're in this situation...


Here is the thing: a significant number of people cheating hold on tightly to the fantasy for a while after being discovered. You'd think the fantasy would break upon discovery but if you read enough threads you'll see that's rarely the case. I agree that if a full break doesn't happen after certain key steps have been taken, then it's pretty pointless to try to R. But in "defense" of cheaters--you have to see it from their perspective--they weren't brave enough to ask for a divorce and for whatever reason they didn't ask for counseling. This particular group of people, if left to their own devices, are going to migrate back to having their cake and eating it too. They aren't going to suddenly file for a divorce--otherwise they would have done that first. No, they get something out of having both relationships going on simultaneously.

This is a dealbreaker for plenty of people for obvious reasons. Others, and there are number of them on the forum and I am one of them, recognize this for what it is. An escape from reality, brought on by a particular sequence of events and set of circumstances. As long as this is a one-time screw up (and of course, only time will tell if that's so), I am more than willing to forgive my husband for that.

My husband told his affair partner not just that he "loved" her but that she was his "soulmate." Well, here I sit, happily back together with him. She was never going to leave her husband, and as time passed he understood that she was not, in fact, his soulmate. (That all happened without my knowledge.) While he certainly enjoyed her company, she didn't show herself fully to him. Affair partners rarely do. They don't criticize or disagree because that ruins the fantasy right quick. In many reconciliation situations, it seems to me to be critical that the WS "gets" this at some point, that it wasn't real, the way an ordinary relationship is. 

But make no mistake, he had to be caught twice before he let go. My point is, precious few WSs "get" this so early in the affair. Some might, if the fantasy was blown up, and it's just possible that this happened here. 

It sounds like she doesn't get a second chance. That is certainly within your rights as a spouse, many a husband wouldn't even bother with a first chance. Just be aware that not all cheaters wake up fully to the stupidity of what they are doing immediately. This doesn't mean all of them are losers who should be unceremoniously dumped at that point. 

So all this snooping and letters of no contact, etc., _are taking into account the deep fantasy that cheaters are often in_, and takes it as a given that they will behave this way. But it isn't a "gotcha" to punish them. For many, if not most people--like me--it's to take the very best shot at reconciliation that we have; covering the bases, so to speak.

I wish Sigma, Beowulf, or Morrigan would come along and chime in on this subject, they can speak to all of this better than I can.

Do you have a copy of the books Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, or Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair? Sorry if I missed that.


----------



## Fvstringpicker

00SMI00 said:


> If something is going on he must be flying into town and spending time with her a few minutes here and there.


You're the one telling us she stated to you she loved after knowing him for two weeks. Like my uncle Olin would say, “If she was head over heels in love with you, she wouldn’t think she was in love with a guy she just met”.


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## 00SMI00

Fvstringpicker said:


> You're the one telling us she stated to you she loved after knowing him for two weeks. Like my uncle Olin would say, “If she was head over heels in love with you, she wouldn’t think she was in love with a guy she just met”.


No **** Sherlock. I said I made mistakes too. Meaning she's was not getting what she needed from me. She turned to someone else for that attention.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

I see, so you drove her right into the arms of another man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> Here is the thing: a significant number of people cheating hold on tightly to the fantasy for a while after being discovered. You'd think the fantasy would break upon discovery but if you read enough threads you'll see that's rarely the case. I agree that if a full break doesn't happen after certain key steps have been taken, then it's pretty pointless to try to R. But in "defense" of cheaters--you have to see it from their perspective--they weren't brave enough to ask for a divorce and for whatever reason they didn't ask for counseling. This particular group of people, if left to their own devices, are going to migrate back to having their cake and eating it too. They aren't going to suddenly file for a divorce--otherwise they would have done that first. No, they get something out of having both relationships going on simultaneously.
> 
> This is a dealbreaker for plenty of people for obvious reasons. Others, and there are number of them on the forum and I am one of them, recognize this for what it is. An escape from reality, brought on by a particular sequence of events and set of circumstances. As long as this is a one-time screw up (and of course, only time will tell if that's so), I am more than willing to forgive my husband for that.
> 
> My husband told his affair partner not just that he "loved" her but that she was his "soulmate." Well, here I sit, happily back together with him. She was never going to leave her husband, and as time passed he understood that she was not, in fact, his soulmate. (That all happened without my knowledge.) While he certainly enjoyed her company, she didn't show herself fully to him. Affair partners rarely do. They don't criticize or disagree because that ruins the fantasy right quick. In many reconciliation situations, it seems to me to be critical that the WS "gets" this at some point, that it wasn't real, the way an ordinary relationship is.
> 
> But make no mistake, he had to be caught twice before he let go. My point is, precious few WSs "get" this so early in the affair. Some might, if the fantasy was blown up, and it's just possible that this happened here.
> 
> It sounds like she doesn't get a second chance. That is certainly within your rights as a spouse, many a husband wouldn't even bother with a first chance. Just be aware that not all cheaters wake up fully to the stupidity of what they are doing immediately. This doesn't mean all of them are losers who should be unceremoniously dumped at that point.
> 
> So all this snooping and letters of no contact, etc., _are taking into account the deep fantasy that cheaters are often in_, and takes it as a given that they will behave this way. But it isn't a "gotcha" to punish them. For many, if not most people--like me--it's to take the very best shot at reconciliation that we have; covering the bases, so to speak.
> 
> I wish Sigma, Beowulf, or Morrigan would come along and chime in on this subject, they can speak to all of this better than I can.
> 
> Do you have a copy of the books Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass, or Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair? Sorry if I missed that.


You do very well heartlife, very well indeed. You do have to get used to posters who will not listen. What has to be done is very hard and it is extremely hard to overcome fear, inertia, and wishful thinking. Much of the time after reading the same situations in other threads, it will click and they will get it and they will save their family. The rest of the time they wait andthen its too late.

You notice you don't see anyone coming back and saying you guys were wrong and it screwed me up. Just the opposite.The odds are against us all when it comes to infidelity.


----------



## 00SMI00

lordmayhem said:


> I see, so you drove her right into the arms of another man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nope, if that happend she did it on her own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so.* I gave her complete amnesty.* I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


1) Bad idea

2) Plus that really does not work. It is like telling a jury to disregard clear and damning evidence on a technicallity. The damage is done.

3) Cheaters lie

4) She knows you better than you know her.

5) Yes, they had sex. He is a VP and has a very high sex rank plus she knows how to manipulate you.

BTW, in reading the thread again I feel the old bait and switch that we get. Maybe just my imagination.


----------



## Numb in Ohio

00SMI00 said:


> No **** Sherlock. I said I made mistakes too. Meaning she's was not getting what she needed from me. She turned to someone else for that attention.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



So even though they may not be "meeting", and it not be physical, an EA is just as damaging. It usually leads up to a PA. Women crave the "emotional" connection before the physical anyway.... 

What you do is what you decide to do.*.but if your wife was having an EA with my H, I sure would expect you let me know about it.*...and yes you're watching the calls... cell, home and her work???

My H had 2 EA's.. one was with a woman in Florida (we live in Ohio),, yet I kicked him out and we are separated going through IC.....
After Dday, I found out he cheated on his previous wife as well.. with the other EA I found out he was having.... he was using calling cards and his work phone to call her work phone to communicate... so as the saying goes.. "Where there's a will, there's a way"

And my H and I have been together for 11 years, married 9... and now I have found out he had been talking to one of the women for the whole 11 years we've been together.... *thought I knew him too*...


----------



## 00SMI00

chapparal said:


> You do very well heartlife, very well indeed. You do have to get used to posters who will not listen. What has to be done is very hard and it is extremely hard to overcome fear, inertia, and wishful thinking. Much of the time after reading the same situations in other threads, it will click and they will get it and they will save their family. The rest of the time they wait andthen its too late.
> 
> You notice you don't see anyone coming back and saying you guys were wrong and it screwed me up. Just the opposite.The odds are against us all when it comes to infidelity.


All I can say is I hope I'm right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 00SMI00

I guess I have to decide. The MC says she may never admit anything and take it to her grave. I just have to decide if I can live with that. I guess if I can't live with that and she won't tell me then I'm out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Since she told you she loved another man she met in a hotel bar, what else are you waiting for her to tell you? I must have missed something?


----------



## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> Since she told you she loved another man she met in a hotel bar, what else are you waiting for her to tell you? I must have missed something?


This sums it up very concisely. It is down to this. I would not like it but the answer would be very clear.


----------



## 00SMI00

chapparal said:


> Since she told you she loved another man she met in a hotel bar, what else are you waiting for her to tell you? I must have missed something?


Twisting everything up I see.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

00SMI00 said:


> I guess I have to decide. The MC says she may never admit anything and take it to her grave. I just have to decide if I can live with that. I guess if I can't live with that and she won't tell me then I'm out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm going to ask again. Admit what?


----------



## iheartlife

deleted, though the better of it


----------



## Fvstringpicker

chapparal said:


> I'm going to ask again. Admit what?


Here's the deal. She out of town where few if any know her, in a hotel with the friendly Do Not Disturb signs (that just make you want to be adventurous), hanging out at the bar with a guy she's enamored with , comes home disconnected, tells her husband she's in love with guy, subsequent texting between her and the guy, and doesn't want to have sex with her husband. For the life of me I can't understand why the M/C thinks she banged the other guy. Can anybody, besides her old man, say, "its the beginning of an emotional affair" with a straight face?


----------



## 00SMI00

Ok I have been in denial that anything physical happend. It hurts to think about it. I know somebody has to get in your pants as well as a your head to make you act the way she did when she got back from that trip. Two weeks after the trip we had a big blow up I flat out accused her of the A and in the heat of the moment that's when she said she loved the OM. This fight was over the phone. I was sure I was getting a divorce that day. Then that evening she wanted to meet for a drink. That's when she started acting like her old self. She said she wanted to work on us. One problem I'm having is the only time she admitted anything wrong is when she said she loved him. She claims she said that because that's what I wanted to hear( yeah that's what I really want to hear). Things for now seem to be going good except for not having as much sex as I would like. A question to you ladies out there- she claims she is having a problem with feeling the closeness in bed and that it's just going to take time. Is she feeding me a line of bull s***? Or do you think she still has feeling for the OM or what do you think? She is just trying to sweep all of this under the rug like nothing ever happend and i'm the only one here with a problem.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

I feel for you.

Your situation is not unlike that of Martinique's, he's in another thread on the forum right now. He had definitive proof about the physical side of the affair because he went about pursuing the truth from his wife--you can read his thread to see what he did to get there.

She is also right now saying 'she's just not feeling it' and isn't having sex with him.

Sex is a very important part of marital bonding. 

One possibility is that she is holding out some loyalty for this man. Again, that does not compute with the short time frame, but the short time frame doesn't compute with the I love you, either.

I know my husband did this while he was still in his emotional affair.

I can't say whether or not she is holding out hope for him, or not. If she is, that could explain the sex situation.

This is why a No Contact letter in her handwriting is recommended, and it's also why telling the OM's husband is part of breaking up an affair.

One sided obsessions need definitive rejection in order to be destroyed. There aren't a lot of ways to get definitive rejection out of the OM and these are the main two.

I meant to tell you this morning, both the_guy and I share something in common with you. We both feel extraordinarily responsible for the state our marriages were in when the affair started. But the choice to have an affair was all on our respective spouses. You can't fix the marriage with 3 people in it. The affair can't continue, either in reality, or as a figment of hope or imagination. Until that happens, all the work in the marriage by the loyal spouse is one-sided. It's part of the equation but it's never more than half.


----------



## kenmoore14217

00SMI00 said:


> Is she feeding me a line of bull s***? Or do you think she still has feeling for the OM or what do you think? She is just trying to sweep all of this under the rug like nothing ever happend and i'm the only one here with a problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


oy vey


----------



## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> I feel for you.
> 
> Your situation is not unlike that of Martinique's, he's in another thread on the forum right now. He had definitive proof about the physical side of the affair because he went about pursuing the truth from his wife--you can read his thread to see what he did to get there.
> 
> She is also right now saying 'she's just not feeling it' and isn't having sex with him.
> 
> Sex is a very important part of marital bonding.
> 
> One possibility is that she is holding out some loyalty for this man. Again, that does not compute with the short time frame, but the short time frame doesn't compute with the I love you, either.
> 
> I know my husband did this while he was still in his emotional affair.
> 
> I can't say whether or not she is holding out hope for him, or not. If she is, that could explain the sex situation.
> 
> This is why a No Contact letter in her handwriting is recommended, and it's also why telling the OM's husband is part of breaking up an affair.
> 
> One sided obsessions need definitive rejection in order to be destroyed. There aren't a lot of ways to get definitive rejection out of the OM and these are the main two.
> 
> I meant to tell you this morning, both the_guy and I share something in common with you. We both feel extraordinarily responsible for the state our marriages were in when the affair started. But the choice to have an affair was all on our respective spouses. You can't fix the marriage with 3 people in it. The affair can't continue, either in reality, or as a figment of hope or imagination. Until that happens, all the work in the marriage by the loyal spouse is one-sided. It's part of the equation but it's never more than half.


At this point she is in such denial if I try to make her write a no contact letter she will laugh in my face. Yeah she is high strung like that. That makes me wonder if I should use the 180 rule or the just let them go rule.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Sorry if I missed it, but she met this guy on a work trip. 

Does this guy have anything to do with her work at all?

Or did he just meet ( pick her up ) in the hotel bar? A total stranger not related to her work?


----------



## TDSC60

00SMI00 said:


> Ok I have been in denial that anything physical happend. It hurts to think about it. I know somebody has to get in your pants as well as a your head to make you act the way she did when she got back from that trip. Two weeks after the trip we had a big blow up I flat out accused her of the A and in the heat of the moment that's when she said she loved the OM. This fight was over the phone. I was sure I was getting a divorce that day. Then that evening she wanted to meet for a drink. That's when she started acting like her old self. She said she wanted to work on us. One problem I'm having is the only time she admitted anything wrong is when she said she loved him. She claims she said that because that's what I wanted to hear( yeah that's what I really want to hear). Things for now seem to be going good except for not having as much sex as I would like. A question to you ladies out there- she claims she is having a problem with feeling the closeness in bed and that it's just going to take time. Is she feeding me a line of bull s***? Or do you think she still has feeling for the OM or what do you think? She is just trying to sweep all of this under the rug like nothing ever happend and i'm the only one here with a problem.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hard for a woman to feel a closeness in bed with her husband while she is dwelling on memories of an encounter she had with the man she now loves.

She had a physical relationship with this man and cannot forget it. Maybe she feels guilty about what she did. Maybe she is in denial. Maybe she is in love with him. For now, you have been replaced by him.

Bottom line is that you are not what she wants at the moment. She has lost her love for you. Will it come back? Maybe.

Can you accept her back into the marriage knowing she is lying to you?


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## thrway214

00SMI00, dude, I was in your shoes some six months ago. I didn't do what this forum told me to do, and saw the EA escalate somewhat, before I did follow advice and brought it to an end. 

First of all - you go 180 until you are sure there is no contact. PA or EA, your wife is feeling a lot of euphoria right now, which confuses the heck out of cheaters. She isn't in her right mind. Her having sex with you is immaterial. She is still high on hormones. The only way to get back your normal wife is to kill the A. 

If it hasn't ended, give the OM's wife a call and let her know. I did this. Nothing killed the A faster than a little heat on the bastard. 

Snoop if you have to, make sure the NC is established. While in NC, give her time to recover. This is a complicated process and she will have to process a lot of conflicting emotions. MC may help, but only if she is seeking help. 

During this time, take the trouble to fix yourself. I don't care how big your testicles are, this is a devastating blow to your ego, your self-esteem and your confidence. Go fix all these in healthy ways. 

You don't have to make a decision to split now. You can ask yourself that in three months, when your emotions are in check. 

Good luck. And PM me if you want to hear my story.


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## thrway214

00SMI00 said:


> At this point she is in such denial if *I try to make her write a no contact letter she will laugh in my face.* Yeah she is high strung like that. That makes me wonder if I should use the 180 rule or the just let them go rule.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow, you sound so much like I did in December!! You are scared your carefully constructed world will explode. This is a statement made in fear. 

One of the best things I did during the early days was to work out a detailed plan for my life after divorce. This wasn't something I wanted, or was working towards. Just planning was a huge empowering act. I spoke to a couple of attorneys, made a full list of all our assets, researched custody and visitation arrangements and wrote up a budget. I didn't need it, but it totally changed my attitude during 180. She saw it too. He stopped being her "just a very good friend" pretty soon after.


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## 00SMI00

Entropy3000 said:


> Sorry if I missed it, but she met this guy on a wrok trip.
> 
> Does this guy have anything to do with her work at all?
> 
> Or did he just meet ( pick her up ) in the hotel bar? A total stranger not related to her work?


Not related to her work at all. He was there for an unrelated conference. The short texting conversation I had with him tells me he is a real bull sh****r.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

Why would she laugh in your face at the idea of a 'no contact' letter? Because she is telling you he meant nothing to her, and there is no point?

If she were to reject this very modest suggestion (you'd watch her write it, and you'd mail it certified mail, BTW), it's exhibiting a profound disrespect for you, that she is not remorseful for what she did, and that she isn't sincerely working on the marriage.

Before you experience infidelity, things like no contact letters seem like silly, petty, things. But they do serve a purpose in having the cheater prove with ACTIONS, rather than words, that they mean to fight for the marriage. She is the one who needs to prove to YOU that she is committed, not the other way around. Somehow, with the guilt that you feel over what you did to harm the marriage (trust me, I did plenty, so if anyone has guilt about that, it's ME, not you), you are allowing her not to live up to her end of the bargain.

But you are still in the dark about a lot of things. The risk with a No Contact letter when there is still stuff you don't know is that she will more than likely go through the motions but not honor it. And you can't be sure she'll abide by No Contact if you're not going to verify it.

You are looking at the phone bill. Is that not a form of distrust? What is the difference between closely reviewing the phone bill and other forms of verification? When you're looking for evidence of contact, from where you sit, it's one and the same. She knows you look at the phone bill. So if she is in contact with him, she isn't going to use that phone. It's as simple as that.


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## 00SMI00

thrway214 said:


> Wow, you sound so much like I did in December!! You are scared your carefully constructed world will explode. This is a statement made in fear.
> 
> One of the best things I did during the early days was to work out a detailed plan for my life after divorce. This wasn't something I wanted, or was working towards. Just planning was a huge empowering act. I spoke to a couple of attorneys, made a full list of all our assets, researched custody and visitation arrangements and wrote up a budget. I didn't need it, but it totally changed my attitude during 180. She saw it too. He stopped being her "just a very good friend" pretty soon after.


My/ our counselor of all people gave me good advice about the divorce process. She told me what ever I do don't leave my home because that will be consider abandonment and I would really screw myself. She has seen too many fathers do this and it's not right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thrway214

00SMI00, how will you know that your wife isn't talking/meeting him? The NC letter, while not a guarantee, is a demonstration of her willingness to end it. If you are in 180, you should also have VERY CLEAR milestones for when you will end it. These are demands you are making of her. And you will have to enforce them. 

I didn't insist on one, but only because my WW, by that point, was very obviously and clearly in NC, which I also verified through other means. Having her dismiss the idea is exactly the wrong reason to not do it. 

End the affair. Insist on immediate NC. If you don't get it, stay in 180, and expose the affair to everyone - her parents, his wife, his work etc etc. At some point, the A will end because it will become a major pain in the ass. If it continues, beyond a couple of weeks, move the F on. 

Ask for complete transparency to all her phones, emails etc. Monitor. But don't reveal your sources. Keep a close eye/ear on what's going on. 

And work on yourself. Your family needs you to be healthy and strong. This is a long ****ing road back, and there will be lots of turmoil. Get better. There is several great resources for working through the emotional fallout. Read and educate yourself. There isn't much you can do while she slowly comes out of the fog.


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## bamaseller

Its very common for women to have emotional affairs. About as common as it is for you to think some girl at the beach or mall is hot. You do things in your mind that are also disrespectful to your wife. We all admit that probably. But getting a woman to admit that she's been emotionally coddling some other dude is very hard to do without her flying off the handle and ripping your b432s off. 

Its a silent killer and women need to be well aware of this type of cheating. It kills from within and is silent. Things take place that we allow and that seem acceptable, yet they are slowly causing her to fall in love, or be very attracted to someone else. She may not know it. She may claim its natural. Either way, she allowed the circumstances leading up to this. So we need to take a step back and evaluate the things that our women are doing that could so easily lead to this.

I bet your wife does not allow you to look at pornography. Your wife puts a stop to alot of things that she considers a threat. Shouldnt you be able to do the same?


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## Entropy3000

00SMI00 said:


> Not related to her work at all. He was there for an unrelated conference. The short texting conversation I had with him tells me he is a real bull sh****r.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he was work related you would need for her to change her work.

Not to add to your concerns but I would have more worries with future trips if she was able to form such a relationship so quickly with a stranger. Hopefully she does not travel so much.


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## bamaseller

It doesn't have to be connected to work. The point is that she allowed this guy to come so close that it affected her around the heart area. Maybe it was time spent. Maybe he listened. Maybe it was a compliment. She basically allowed the temptation to be dangled in front of her face without even knowing it. Next thing she knows, she has feelings for the guy. 

Those little things that led up to this is almost exactly like you viewing porn or women that are better looking and more desireable than your wife. You're allowing temptation. You're allowing your attention and affection to be directed to other places. The difference is that our issue is blatent and obvious. Her problem comes from man "legal" or "acceptable" actions.

Nothing wrong with a compliment right? Nothing wrong with alot of things. But often times, its those things that catches the womans eye. She also probably spends more time with him than with you. Women spend more time with their work men than they do with you.. Also, those men at work are at their best while shes with them. 

We need to open our eyes to the reality of emotional affairs and why they happen. The small things we allow are contributors to them yet we look past them. Watch out for the time spent between your wife and her male companions.


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## iheartlife

OP--any updates?


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> OP--any updates?


Not really. The only other thing that I thought looked funny on the phone history was a text plus number that I thought was the other mans but it turned out to be a girl friend of hers. I mean if
Something was still going on I'm not sure how they would do it. She's home every night. Hell we have done the deed twice in the last 3 days. And no it's still not like it used to be but not at it's worst either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Then she isn't contacting him. Just sweep this under the rug and forget about it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovelygirl

Your lack of attention towards her doesn't justify her cheating.
Don't ever for a second give her the satisfaction of this thought otherwise. She can't blame you for her irresponsible actions.


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## 00SMI00

lordmayhem said:


> Then she isn't contacting him. Just sweep this under the rug and forget about it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is what she is doing. I'm not sure I can.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy

WTF!!!!
Sweeping it under the rug is f^cked, I've been down that road.

Years from now she will be at it again with another OM.


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## 00SMI00

lovelygirl said:


> Your lack of attention towards her doesn't justify her cheating.
> Don't ever for a second give her the satisfaction of this thought otherwise. She can't blame you for her irresponsible actions.


I agree. Lack of attention is a two way street. She is 100% responsible for her own actions. I don't think I can let this go until she sees this is all on her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Not really. The only other thing that I thought looked funny on the phone history was a text plus number that I thought was the other mans but it turned out to be a girl friend of hers. I mean if
> Something was still going on I'm not sure how they would do it. She's home every night. Hell we have done the deed twice in the last 3 days. And no it's still not like it used to be but not at it's worst either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Does she know you discovered the affair via the phone bills? If so, if she were in contact with him now, why would she bother using the phone that you monitor? Just trying to understand this.


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## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> Does she know you discovered the affair via the phone bills? If so, if she were in contact with him now, why would she bother using the phone that you monitor? Just trying to understand this.



Work phone, work email, secret email accts, facebook, burner phone. Although most one night stands are just that or in this case a weekend stand?


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> Does she know you discovered the affair via the phone bills? If so, if she were in contact with him now, why would she bother using the phone that you monitor? Just trying to understand this.


Yes I understand that. I have been looking and so far nothing. Her big tip off about the affair is how she was acting and then I started looking and found the activity on the phone bill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Yes I understand that. I have been looking and so far nothing. Her big tip off about the affair is how she was acting and then I started looking and found the activity on the phone bill.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And just to revisit the No Contact letter again. Is there a particular reason you think she'd laugh in your face if you suggested it? Do you have any other reasons why you're opposed?

Just some more background on that topic--our MC, who has specific infidelity experience / training (a very wise old man he's proven to be in many ways), spent quite a lot of time discussing an "ending ritual" with my husband and I, basically the same idea that is discussed by Dr. Harley in Surviving an Affair and Shirley Glass in Not Just Friends, where the letter is handwritten officially declaring no contact and sent certified mail by the loyal spouse.


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## 00SMI00

chapparal said:


> Work phone, work email, secret email accts, facebook, burner phone. Although most one night stands are just that or in this case a weekend stand?


I have no way to monitor her work phone, work email, etc. Ironically she wasn't Facebook friends or a twitter follower. That actually made me more suspicious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Yes I understand that. I have been looking and so far nothing. Her big tip off about the affair is how she was acting and then I started looking and found the activity on the phone bill.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sorry about repeating my story to you, because I'm sure I've told you quite a bit already.
Anyhow, this was how I became suspicious of my husband's emotional affair the first time around, was by how he was acting. Not enough to snoop in any way--I was too innocent about the ways of infidelity for that--but enough to make me ask him many times if he was in an affair, which he angrily, roundly denied to my face at least 5 or 6 times or more. I discovered the affair by accident when he left that secret email account open on our home computer.

He re-entered the affair within 4 to 6 weeks of discovery. He had learned how to hide his tracks well. First of all, we were in MC for six months, and I just figured that being in MC was enough to prove his commitment to the marriage. But he was every bit as enmeshed during MC as he was before.

We stumbled along this way for 3 more years. Once again, I only discovered the affair by accident (he texted me instead of her).

Our new MC, plus the loving closeness this time, is a total revelation. I can't describe how wonderful it is to have the love of my life fully back and enthusiastically recommitted.

So I would say he was 3 different ways in each phase. Super far away, even angry when in the throes of infatuation during the first stage (pre DD#1); going through the motions well enough so as not to arouse my suspicions after DD#1; and then after DD#2, putting in all the effort to be a loving husband, and happily so. (But I still plan to monitor for a while, seeing as how I never did before.)


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> Sorry about repeating my story to you, because I'm sure I've told you quite a bit already.
> Anyhow, this was how I became suspicious of my husband's emotional affair the first time around, was by how he was acting. Not enough to snoop in any way--I was too innocent about the ways of infidelity for that--but enough to make me ask him many times if he was in an affair, which he angrily, roundly denied to my face at least 5 or 6 times or more. I discovered the affair by accident when he left that secret email account open on our home computer.
> 
> He re-entered the affair within 4 to 6 weeks of discovery. He had learned how to hide his tracks well. First of all, we were in MC for six months, and I just figured that being in MC was enough to prove his commitment to the marriage. But he was every bit as enmeshed during MC as he was before.
> 
> We stumbled along this way for 3 more years. Once again, I only discovered the affair by accident (he texted me instead of her).
> 
> Our new MC, plus the loving closeness this time, is a total revelation. I can't describe how wonderful it is to have the love of my life fully back and enthusiastically recommitted.
> 
> So I would say he was 3 different ways in each phase. Super far away, even angry when in the throes of infatuation during the first stage (pre DD#1); going through the motions well enough so as not to arouse my suspicions after DD#1; and then after DD#1, putting in all the effort to be a loving husband, and happily so. (But I still plan to monitor for a while, seeing as how I never did before.)


Was this long affair with the same woman?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Was this long affair with the same woman?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes.

Also, I posted a question to you about No Contact letters that is on the previous page, you may have missed it in cross-posting.

The only explanation I have for not leaving him after discovering he lied for such a long time the second time was his change in attitude. And it is 100%. Calling / texting me throughout the day, I drive to his office and we have lunch at least once a week, we try to get a babysitter and go out at least once or more per week, and we have sex in one form or another 2 or 3 times a week.

I went to IC for 6 weeks following the affair, got discharged because of the progress.

Also, I had spent that long period of time (3 years) working intensely on myself. I wasn't doing it for my husband or to get him to stay, because as I mentioned, I thought he was recommitted at that point instead of in false R.

Clearly, he channeled a decent amount of time and energy into her that he now channels into me. If things weren't even better than they were since the start of our marriage I wouldn't be with him.


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## iheartlife

I should add--not that I need to justify myself to anyone--but my dealbreaker would have been a serial offender (with two separate women). To me more than anything else this signals a level of selfishness and brokeness in a spouse that would cause me to leave them

But everyone has their own dealbreaker--for some it's a PA; for others it's an EA (saying I love you to someone else); for others it's two strikes and you're out.

For me, the dealbreakers are: three strikes and you're out (so if he re-enters the affair now), and serial cheating. If I had discovered he was in an affair with a different woman on DD#2, I would have kicked him to the curb. The reason I was able to understand that it was the same woman was the nature of their relationship: largely texting / emailing / phone calls in support of each others' "bad" marriages. She married someone for his status, wealth and family; my husband of course married for love. But that relationship was very much a fantasy (as I see via emails discovered on both DD#1 and DD#2) and he never really got to know her very well. That's the nature of affairs (as you can see for yourself).

Unlike many BSs I see on this board, my problem has never been having a spine. Unfortunately, my problem was more than likely being too domineering in our marriage. My husband was terrified out of his mind on DD#2 that I was going to divorce him. Like sh*t in his pants terrified. Equally terrified over exposure although as time has passed he has come around to understanding how this supports the marriage. He has no issues with the No Contact letter (I didn't know to ask for one after DD#1).

I was just profoundly ignorant as to how affairs function. I didn't comprehend the power of the fantasy that would lead him right back into it despite knowing that I held all the cards (more highly paid than he back when I worked, with the ability to go back to work at will; he would have relinquished all custody of the kids; and everyone in the family on both sides would have supported me). There is little logic to affairs except that they represent a very strong compulsion that is hard to break. They are not real because they aren't tested by reality. She was never going to leave her husband and he didn't want to marry her either.

Sorry to talk your ear off.


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> I should add--not that I need to justify myself to anyone--but my dealbreaker would have been a serial offender (with two separate women). To me more than anything else this signals a level of selfishness and brokeness in a spouse that would cause me to leave them
> 
> But everyone has their own dealbreaker--for some it's a PA; for others it's an EA (saying I love you to someone else); for others it's two strikes and you're out.
> 
> For me, the dealbreakers are: three strikes and you're out (so if he re-enters the affair now), and serial cheating. If I had discovered he was in an affair with a different woman on DD#2, I would have kicked him to the curb. The reason I was able to understand that it was the same woman was the nature of their relationship: largely texting / emailing / phone calls in support of each others' "bad" marriages. She married someone for his status, wealth and family; my husband of course married for love. But that relationship was very much a fantasy (as I see via emails discovered on both DD#1 and DD#2) and he never really got to know her very well. That's the nature of affairs (as you can see for yourself).
> 
> Unlike many BSs I see on this board, my problem has never been having a spine. Unfortunately, my problem was more than likely being too domineering in our marriage. My husband was terrified out of his mind on DD#2 that I was going to divorce him. Like sh*t in his pants terrified. Equally terrified over exposure although as time has passed he has come around to understanding how this supports the marriage. He has no issues with the No Contact letter (I didn't know to ask for one after DD#1).
> 
> I was just profoundly ignorant as to how affairs function. I didn't comprehend the power of the fantasy that would lead him right back into it despite knowing that I held all the cards (more highly paid than he back when I worked, with the ability to go back to work at will; he would have relinquished all custody of the kids; and everyone in the family on both sides would have supported me). There is little logic to affairs except that they represent a very strong compulsion that is hard to break. They are not real because they aren't tested by reality. She was never going to leave her husband and he didn't want to marry her either.
> 
> Sorry to talk your ear off.


Don't be sorry. Anything I can learn from this will help me and it definitely has me keeping my eyes open to the possibility of something starting back up. The nature of my wife's work requires her to go out of town once every couple of months or so. This affair stuff was my greatest fear about her traveling. We were in counseling before this happened and I even stated this was my greatest fear before it happend! And the one time I let my guard down it happens.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

What would make you fear an affair? It never occurred to me. Did she seem too interested in other men, or did she cheat on you while you were dating, or did you see evidence of this in other relationships she had before you?

You were already in counseling. Did she seem to be disengaged well before the discovery? I think this is why people think she was cheating before you think that she was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> What would make you fear an affair? It never occurred to me. Did she seem too interested in other men, or did she cheat on you while you were dating, or did you see evidence of this in other relationships she had before you?
> 
> You were already in counseling. Did she seem to be disengaged well before the discovery? I think this is why people think she was cheating before you think that she was.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes we were already in counseling. She never seemed distant until she came back from that trip. She never really seemed interested in other men atleast as far as I could tell. Guess I was wrong there! She is a social person, easy to talk to. She lost some weight and is more atractive than she used to be. I think that made me resentful and felt more insecure about myself. I am changing the way I feel about me. And I'm doing things for me now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

I can't recall, did you take a look at No More Mr. Nice Guy and Married Man Sex Life?


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## Shaggy

Is she still pushing you away physically ? Or is she actually working on connecting with you again?

I'm worried that she's working on keeping the marriage, but has disengaged from you - if you know what I mean?

If so, then she's likely to do it again, now that she's worked through her personal shame in discovering that she's capable of cheating. 

If she is returning to you, then that is a good sign. However your first post indicated that she came home, but didn't emotionally or physically return to you personally.


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## 00SMI00

Shaggy said:


> Is she still pushing you away physically ? Or is she actually working on connecting with you again?
> 
> I'm worried that she's working on keeping the marriage, but has disengaged from you - if you know what I mean?
> 
> If so, then she's likely to do it again, now that she's worked through her personal shame in discovering that she's capable of cheating.
> 
> If she is returning to you, then that is a good sign. However your first post indicated that she came home, but didn't emotionally or physically return to you personally.


She is not pushing me away physically. Its just when we get physical it weird. Not pushing away but not real into it either. Dont get me wrong it's a night and day difference from where she was at a couple of months ago when this all happend. I'm having a hard time sweeping it under the rug. She has no problem with it. The MC thinks I should let it go and move forward but I don't think I can with out her spilling her guts and telling me everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> I can't recall, did you take a look at No More Mr. Nice Guy and Married Man Sex Life?


Actually I am listening to the no more mr nice guy audio book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

00SMI00 said:


> She is not pushing me away physically. Its just when we get physical it weird. Not pushing away but not real into it either. Dont get me wrong it's a night and day difference from where she was at a couple of months ago when this all happend. I'm having a hard time sweeping it under the rug. She has no problem with it. The MC thinks I should let it go and move forward but I don't think I can with out her spilling her guts and telling me everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She already tasted another meat, if you rugsweep it now without any consequence's she's going to want more in the future.


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> The MC thinks I should let it go and move forward but I don't think I can with out her spilling her guts and telling me everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know what I'm going to say to that, right? Time to get a new MC. One with actual knowledge and training about infidelity. Found ours via local sex / porn addiction counselors. My husband is neither but they get escapist behavior and they get marital betrayal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 00SMI00

keko said:


> She already tasted another meat, if you rugsweep it now without any consequence's she's going to want more in the future.


I hear you loud and clear. She needs to know she f***ed up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> You know what I'm going to say to that, right? Time to get a new MC. One with actual knowledge and training about infidelity. Found ours via local sex / porn addiction counselors. My husband is neither but they get escapist behavior and they get marital betrayal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I really do like this one but I may just do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

00SMI00 said:


> I have no way to monitor her work phone, work email, etc. Ironically she wasn't Facebook friends or a twitter follower. That actually made me more suspicious.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If I wanted to be secretive, I would get a gmail account and access it from my work computer.


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## iheartlife

Entropy3000 said:


> If I wanted to be secretive, I would get a gmail account and access it from my work computer.


What my husband and his AP did was create one email account that they both knew the password to (they used yahoo) and self-emailed the account. They would distinguish the emails by not responding to each other's, but by the signature line. So each email would be a stand-alone communication in the account.

Not sure why they went to all that trouble! Especially since I discovered it when my husband left the account open on our home computer :rofl: 

I do sometimes cry when I think that I found out both times by accident. I told my husband the feeling was like an enormous train whizzing by a few milimeters from my face.


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## Entropy3000

iheartlife said:


> What my husband and his AP did was create one email account that they both knew the password to (they used yahoo) and self-emailed the account. They would distinguish the emails by not responding to each other's, but by the signature line. So each email would be a stand-alone communication in the account.
> 
> Not sure why they went to all that trouble! Especially since I discovered it when my husband left the account open on our home computer :rofl:
> 
> I do sometimes cry when I think that I found out both times by accident. I told my husband the feeling was like an enormous train whizzing by a few milimeters from my face.


Sobering.


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## iheartlife

Any updates?


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## Feisty53

Sorry.. but if you get pissy everytime she leaves, what in the hell are you thinking? she has away time from you to stew about that anger, and that is a sure recipe for sending her straight into the arms of someone else. You know.. "if I am going to be accused of it, I might as well do it"


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## tacoma

If the Op is still around I have a question about a possible red flag I saw in one of his posts aways back.

You said she had the app "Text Plus" on her phone.(What phone does she have ?)
I don`t know a lot about this app but ran across it a couple weeks ago in one of the tech blogs I frequent and I nearly posted about it here because it seemed to me geared toward secret communications.

So I have to ask, do you use Text Plus as well?
Does anyone else she knows use Text Plus as well (besides the GF mentioned) because it would seem to me to be a redundant app in the word of all you can eat smartphone contracts.

The only use I could see for it is if you`re constantly texting and calling over your limits which I would think is rare (I could be wrong) other than trying to keep communication secret.

I`m going to go read up on it a bit more see about how it logs messages and stuff.


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## Maricha75

tacoma said:


> If the Op is still around I have a question about a possible red flag I saw in one of his posts aways back.
> 
> You said she had the app "Text Plus" on her phone.(What phone does she have ?)
> I don`t know a lot about this app but ran across it a couple weeks ago in one of the tech blogs I frequent and I nearly posted about it here because it seemed to me geared toward secret communications.
> 
> So I have to ask, do you use Text Plus as well?
> Does anyone else she knows use Text Plus as well (besides the GF mentioned) because it would seem to me to be a redundant app in the word of all you can eat smartphone contracts.
> 
> The only use I could see for it is if you`re constantly texting and calling over your limits which I would think is rare (I could be wrong) other than trying to keep communication secret.
> 
> I`m going to go read up on it a bit more see about how it logs messages and stuff.


Tacoma, text plus is, essentially, another text/chat program that allows you to hide texts. It gives you a separate "text number" so it doesn't show up on the bill.I had it on my old phone, a Droid X. It can be purchased in the android market. Not sure if you can get it on iPhone or not. Probably not. But it doesn't save to the phone like regular texts do. It works great for out of country (i.e. USA to Canada, btdt). I believe it logs it just in the program, but not certain. When my husband and I started R, I deleted ALL of those (yahoo, msn, text plus, aim) from my phone. I delete no texts, I delete no messages on FB, etc. So...text plus is used if you don't want online friends to have your real number or if you are trying to hide your texts.


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## tacoma

Maricha75 said:


> Tacoma, text plus is, essentially, another text/chat program that allows you to hide texts. It gives you a separate "text number" so it doesn't show up on the bill.I had it on my old phone, a Droid X. It can be purchased in the android market. Not sure if you can get it on iPhone or not. Probably not. But it doesn't save to the phone like regular texts do. It works great for out of country (i.e. USA to Canada, btdt). I believe it logs it just in the program, but not certain. When my husband and I started R, I deleted ALL of those (yahoo, msn, text plus, aim) from my phone. I delete no texts, I delete no messages on FB, etc. So...text plus is used if you don't want online friends to have your real number or if you are trying to hide your texts.


Yeah I`m learning.

There are apps for Windows Phone & iPhones from Text Plus now as well as Android.

I was under the impression that both users (caller and receiver) had to have the app but that`s not so.
You can call/text any number for a small fee paid through the app itself from a credit card they keep on file.

It doesn`t keep logs except within the app itself.(as you said)

I`m sure it has some nice legitimate (international use mostly) uses but it does appear to be an excellent communication app for secretive texting/calling.

Thanks Maricha!


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> Any updates?


Hi. Sorry just been busy. Actually she has opened up some and she admitted to the emotional part. Actually she said she had only seen him in person the evening they met. She says he made her feel good about her self yada yada yada. And she says nothing physical happend. I know there's a lot of you out there that are going to say she's lying. I feel so far she's telling me the truth. It makes sense. I think it was headed to a physical relationship with the phone calls then at some point meeting again. She has not been out of town since. I've been reading some books, Not just friends, No more Mr nice guy and the Married mans sex life primer( love this one). Like I have said before I'm working me. I'm not looking to attractive being all paranoid. The funny thing is she is jealous of a female coworker of mine. Lol. She has also been checking my phone records!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp

It is called projection on her part.


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## tacoma

00SMI00 said:


> Hi. Sorry just been busy. Actually she has opened up some and she admitted to the emotional part.



That`s not "opening up" that`s "Trickle Truth".
The more pressure you put on her and the more circumstantial evidence you get supporting an affair the more "Opening Up" she`ll do.



> Actually she said she had only seen him in person the evening they met. She says he made her feel good about her self yada yada yada. And she says nothing physical happend.


You mean when they met in the "hotel" bar?
The bar in the ..."hotel"?
That bar?



> I know there's a lot of you out there that are going to say she's lying.


Not me, in fact I said she was "truthing", trickle truthing.



> The funny thing is she is jealous of a female coworker of mine. Lol. She has also been checking my phone records!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You do know that an inability to trust is a red flag in itself.

A person who isn`t normally jealous or insecure often becomes jealous and insecure when cheating through projection.

I know it sounds like new age bull**** but I`ve been a cheater, they do this.


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## 00SMI00

tacoma said:


> That`s not "opening up" that`s "Trickle Truth".
> The more pressure you put on her and the more circumstantial evidence you get supporting an affair the more "Opening Up" she`ll
> You mean when they met in the "hotel" bar?
> The bar in the ..."hotel"?
> That bar?
> Wow, the bar... The hotel.... That really means they had sex for sure!! It's not possible that the night she met this person she didn't sleep with him. I suppose you slept with every person you met at the bar the first night.
> 
> 
> Not me, in fact I said she was "truthing", trickle truthing.
> 
> 
> 
> You do know that an inability to trust is a red flag in itself.
> 
> A person who isn`t normally jealous or insecure often becomes jealous and insecure when cheating through projection.
> 
> I know it sounds like new age bull**** but I`ve been a cheater, they do this.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> Actually she said she had only seen him in person the evening they met._Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry it took me a while to respond. So how did she meet him first (virtually, I guess) if the hotel was their first meeting?


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> Sorry it took me a while to respond. So how did she meet him first (virtually, I guess) if the hotel was their first meeting?


They were both there for conferences. They are not in the same line of work. It's a very nice resort type hotel that has several bars and restaurants in it. She says it was the last night of his conference and it was the beginning of hers. She said that is the first time she ever met this guy. She says she did not know him prior to this night. Even if that is true its still totally inappropriate that they would exchange phone numbers or anything else for that matter. I'll get the whole story. I want to know everything!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

Can you give us more details about her telling you that she was in love with him? I think the reason we keep zeroing in on this is (as you can see from this active board) there are plenty of affair stories, people are constantly posting new ones and hundreds of people lurk and never post each day. This is the first I've seen someone say this out of the blue having just met someone.

So it's odd, bordering on bizarre, for her to use that word about someone like this. Can you shed any light on how she told you, and why she would say this?


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> Can you give us more details about her telling you that she was in love with him? I think the reason we keep zeroing in on this is (as you can see from this active board) there are plenty of affair stories, people are constantly posting new ones and hundreds of people lurk and never post each day. This is the first I've seen someone say this out of the blue having just met someone.
> 
> So it's odd, bordering on bizarre, for her to use that word about someone like this. Can you shed any light on how she told you, and why she would say this?


I know it's bizarre for sure. When she got back from her conference she was just acting distant and I cought on that something was wrong. That's when I check the phone history and had seen all the phone calls. I called her out on this and she would talk about the fact that things might not work out between us and that sort of thing. We have had our problems over the last couple years but felt like things quickly went down hill. I had done nothing to bring this on. This went on for 2 weeks or so. Then one day she went out of town for work. Just for the day. I called her and questioned everything she was doing and accused her of going to meet this guy. I pressed hard thats when she said she loved him. Its too short of a time span to feel that way isn't it? 2 weeks?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

No, two weeks isn't too short. One meeting would be too short, but not two weeks. That is about how long infatuation takes. But in general, I would assume two weeks with the people involved being in contact with each other nearly every day in those two weeks.

I know I don't need to tell you again how dangerous this situation strikes me as being. The less they knew each other, the less time she spent with him, together with the power of the feelings, that is a worse thing, not a better thing.

I guess that's why it's so intensely difficult to believe that she never knew him before, that they had no mutual friends, that they had never met, etc. etc. I'm not saying it's entirely impossible. It's just extremely hard to believe.

Do you feel like there's any progress? Have you worked at all through His Needs / Her Needs, Love Busters? I should mention our terrific MC has recommended The Seven Principles for Making Marriages Work.


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> No, two weeks isn't too short. One meeting would be too short, but not two weeks. That is about how long infatuation takes. But in general, I would assume two weeks with the people involved being in contact with each other nearly every day in those two weeks.
> 
> I know I don't need to tell you again how dangerous this situation strikes me as being. The less they knew each other, the less time she spent with him, together with the power of the feelings, that is a worse thing, not a better thing.
> 
> I guess that's why it's so intensely difficult to believe that she never knew him before, that they had no mutual friends, that they had never met, etc. etc. I'm not saying it's entirely impossible. It's just extremely hard to believe.
> 
> Do you feel like there's any progress? Have you worked at all through His Needs / Her Needs, Love Busters? I should mention our terrific MC has recommended The Seven Principles for Making Marriages Work.


I checked phone records and I can't find that number prior to her meeting him there. It doesn't mean she didnt but she denied it. She claims the only time she has seen him was that first evening. I think she is lying about that. I think the day we had it out on the phone she met him. She put over 500 miles on her vehicle that day. She claims she just drove around all day thinking about us. There is no way you put 500 miles on just thinking. I think overall we are making progress. Some times I wonder. I have really just now gotten to the point where she will talk about things. 
Sorry if it seems I am jumping around. There's just a lot to the story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

You know, do not be shy about sharing the details. I realize it isn't pleasant to have people jump in and criticize your choices based on the facts you give, but we might see patterns in your facts that you do not. You've shared hardly any fact with us here.

I agree entirely that the 500 miles on the car is a huge red flag. I agree that her story about driving around aimlessly for that incredible length of time is nigh-on implausible.

Let's say she was driving 70 mph which is the fastest you can drive on an Interstate (of course she could be driving faster); that averages out to over 7 hours of driving. And she likely didn't travel that fast the whole time unless she was on an interstate the whole time. That translates to maybe 8 or 9 hours of driving.

Can you tell us more about the driving? Did this occur on a weekend, or during the workweek? How did you discover she had been driving, do you keep track of mileage / gas receipts? Do you have any idea where she could have gone during that time?


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## thrway214

At this point, you are better off working on yourself and creating a safer environment for her to share more details. As long as the A is over, and there is no more contact, you should give her a little time. But be tough. Tell her that she owes you the full truth. Any secrets that she keeps will come back to haunt your marriage.


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> You know, do not be shy about sharing the details. I realize it isn't pleasant to have people jump in and criticize your choices based on the facts you give, but we might see patterns in your facts that you do not. You've shared hardly any fact with us here.
> 
> I agree entirely that the 500 miles on the car is a huge red flag. I agree that her story about driving around aimlessly for that incredible length of time is nigh-on implausible.
> 
> Let's say she was driving 70 mph which is the fastest you can drive on an Interstate (of course she could be driving faster); that averages out to over 7 hours of driving. And she likely didn't travel that fast the whole time unless she was on an interstate the whole time. That translates to maybe 8 or 9 hours of driving.
> 
> Can you tell us more about the driving? Did this occur on a weekend, or during the workweek? How did you discover she had been driving, do you keep track of mileage / gas receipts? Do you have any idea where she could have gone during that time?


This occurred on a Friday. She was going to leave work early like 11 or noon. She said she had a study group getting to gether in a town about an hour away in a town we go to once in a while. She is working on a certification she is trying to obtain. My gut was really twisting and turning. So I decided to skip work and go to her work to see if she was there at 8:30 am. She wasn't there of course. So I waited about an hour then I called her and told her I was leaving work early and wanted to go to lunch before she left. At this point it's pushing 10 am. I asked what time she left and she said 9am. Then I asked for specifics like where exactly she was going and she couldnt be specific at all. So I busted her and told her I had been at her work since 8:30. 

Then I accused her of going to meet this guy. And kept pushing for answers and she just denied. The thing that got to me was she didn't get pi**** off at me for all of this. Then she said she loved him and told me he was so wonderful then she said she didn't know how but she feel out of love with me. She refused to turn around and come back. I was very upset. All she would tell me is she need time to think and would be home later. 
My therory is she drove to another town about half way and he drove half way. The mileage makes sense. The time line of the phone calls that day made sense. She needs to come clean about this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

tacoma said:


> Yeah I`m learning.
> 
> There are apps for Windows Phone & iPhones from Text Plus now as well as Android.
> 
> I was under the impression that both users (caller and receiver) had to have the app but that`s not so.
> You can call/text any number for a small fee paid through the app itself from a credit card they keep on file.
> 
> It doesn`t keep logs except within the app itself.(as you said)
> 
> I`m sure it has some nice legitimate (international use mostly) uses but it does appear to be an excellent communication app for secretive texting/calling.
> 
> Thanks Maricha!


This texting app is free. There is a paid version for .99 that will eliminate the adds. You can get a regular number and text anyone with a cell phone for free. The messages are unretrievable once erased. I have this app, but I rarely use it. I was talking to my friend and I didn't erase the contents. My daughter read my texts and saw that I used a swear word or two, she immediately told on me to my husband.LMAO! I never ever curse around my husband or kids.


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## iheartlife

I wonder how they are staying in touch.

There is more to this. There just has to be. It's just all hidden from your view.

She is in deep. She basically wants to date him while staying married. 

You are the fallback guy, the safety net in case it all goes wrong.


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> I wonder how they are staying in touch.
> 
> There is more to this. There just has to be. It's just all hidden from your view.
> 
> She is in deep. She basically wants to date him while staying married.
> 
> You are the fallback guy, the safety net in case it all goes wrong.


Ok part 2. So I go to her moms of all places and spill my guts to her. I just wanted her mom to be good with me regardless of what happened. Her mom was great. We talked more than we have ever talked to her before. I ended up texting my wife and telling her I calmed down and would talk later. So later that evening we meet for drinks and she pulls a 180 on and is acting normal. And tells me she just drove around all day( I know this is bs ) and she wanted to work on us. After that once in a while she would text or call this guy. I let her know I wouldn't put up with this crap. Then I contacted the guy and warned him to back off or he would have problems. So to the best of my knowledge there has been no contact. It's been a month and a half and she hasn't been out of town or anything like that. This seem to be better. I'm a little inpatient. I just want her to **** or get off the pot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Maybe she bought a burner phone.


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## lordmayhem

iheartlife said:


> I wonder how they are staying in touch.
> 
> There is more to this. There just has to be. It's just all hidden from your view.
> 
> She is in deep. She basically wants to date him while staying married.
> 
> You are the fallback guy, the safety net in case it all goes wrong.


It doesn't matter. OOSM100 won't do something *crazy* like use a VAR or a keylogger. 

His WW loves the OM. And of course he believes there has been no contact that he can tell...probably because he won't do something crazy like actually investigating. Anyway, its all irrelevant. He gave her complete amnesty. He wants to sweep this under the rug and quickly as possible.


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## 00SMI00

lordmayhem said:


> It doesn't matter. OOSM100 won't do something *crazy* like use a VAR or a keylogger.
> 
> His WW loves the OM. And of course he believes there has been no contact that he can tell...probably because he won't do something crazy like actually investigating. Anyway, its all irrelevant. He gave her complete amnesty. He wants to sweep this under the rug and quickly as possible.


You can go ..... Never mind it's not worth it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife

00SMI00 said:


> You can go ..... Never mind it's not worth it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why don't you want to verify with a keylogger like desktopshark, or a VAR? or are you, but you just haven't mentioned it. (I won't flame you.)


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## snap

Dude, try to be angry on your wife, not on the forum posters. It's not us who are cheating on you.


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## snap

iheartlife said:


> Why don't you want to verify with a keylogger like desktopshark, or a VAR? or are you, but you just haven't mentioned it. (I won't flame you.)


He's taking high road to hell.


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## iheartlife

I think that the OP is telling part of the story that is now weeks old, that this was how he caught her. (Please correct me 00SMI00 if I'm wrong.)

Props to him for exposing to her mom, we all know most people don't even get that far.


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## Chaparral

iheartlife said:


> I think that the OP is telling part of the story that is now weeks old, that this was how he caught her. (Please correct me 00SMI00 if I'm wrong.)
> 
> Props to him for exposing to her mom, we all know most people don't even get that far.


A lot of people think that spying on their spouse is lower than low. I for one,do not get that attitude. For example, this OP knows that his wife has had a secret, thay she has lied about, Emotional affair with a man she loves/loved. He is certain that she drove several hundred miles to meet him and lied about it.

He has no idea if she has quit contacting the OM or has simply become a more practiced liar.

OOS, you should take a look at the cheaters website and see how cheaters talk about their spouses, especially ones like you , that have found out about the affair and are trying to reconcile and believe anything the cheaters tell their spouses.

If you think you are taking the high road, you and your wife are not going to have a meeting of the minds simply because she is on the low road. 

If she is truly trying to reconcile, confirming that fact would be of great benefit to you both. Living with out this confirmation will pretty much destroy your faith in your wife.


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## iheartlife

If I haven't made myself clear before, I think he should have keylogged the computer and installed multiple VARs a while ago.

I ought to know!


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> I think that the OP is telling part of the story that is now weeks old, that this was how he caught her. (Please correct me 00SMI00 if I'm wrong.)
> 
> Props to him for exposing to her mom, we all know most people don't even get that far.


I'm not upset with you guys here. It's just some people on here act childish. If you don't agree with me then don't post. I can handle constructive criticism. And yes she is not real comfortable around her mom these days. She is all about damage control. She doesn't want people to find out. She's worried that I will ruin her reputation. That's why it all hasn't come out yet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 00SMI00

iheartlife said:


> If I haven't made myself clear before, I think he should have keylogged the computer and installed multiple VARs a while ago.
> 
> I ought to know!


That's not even an option now. She check on my computer and found where I was looking at that stuff. She even check her vehicle to see if I actually installed a VAR! She admitted this stuff to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

00SMI00 said:


> I really dont think so. I gave her complete amnesty. I told her what ever happened we would work thru it. She still denied. After 11 yrs married i know her well enough to know she is lying. Thats how I nailed her in the first place.


My wife knew me for 8 years and I could lie to her without flinching an inch. And she could always tell when I was lying, just couldn't tell when I was cheating on her because they could have given me an Academy award for best actor.

BTW, you want to believe so much that things didn't happen that sometimes you'll overlook things we (as cheaters) do or say just to protect yourself.


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## keko

00SMI00 said:


> That's not even an option now. She check on my computer and found where I was looking at that stuff. She even check her vehicle to see if I actually installed a VAR! She admitted this stuff to me.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wait.. she knows about this site?


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## iheartlife

Hi there, 00SMI00's wife. We're on to you! **waves**


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## 00SMI00

keko said:


> Wait.. she knows about this site?


Lol she might.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko

Someone message a moderator to move it to the private section.


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## Almostrecovered

Private section is starting get crowded!! Sheesh amazing how many WS's are finding this site


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## iheartlife

Almostrecovered said:


> Private section is starting get crowded!! Sheesh amazing how many WS's are finding this site


I'm telling you, it's a cold war out there.

What are we fighting for again?


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## Shaggy

Sigh
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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