# What a pickle, what a pickle



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Man, I am in quite the situation. I've been dating this girl for a few months and we agreed for practical and relationship reasons to move in together. Financially, it would help with two incomes and I wanted to get her out of her parents house (she moved back home when she divorced-I'm divorced too). I'm 39, she's 32.

So we've been living together for 3 months. She has two small boys, 2 and 4. I have two boys, 9 and 11 (they are with their mom other than weekends). It's been a struggle for us, because we moved in together more for practical reasons but we loved each other and saw a future together. I took all of the financial risk and I'm commuting 1.5 hours each day to work to get a house near her work and daycare for her kids. We really weren't ready for this, moreso her in terms of relationship but we took a leap of faith and were sure that we would grow even closer and live happily ever after. 

It hasn't worked that way. She has grown increasingly distant and recently admitted that she wasn't in love with me and didn't have those types of feelings for me. She said she tried to force those feelings because I'm so good to her and for her and her boys. She's under a lot of stress from work and dealing with emotional issues from the past (lot of damage and baggage here). So, I just figure that some time and room for her to breathe would help her.

We moved out of the same and bed and established differenet bedrooms. Oh, forgot to mention: we're stuck here together because of the financial reasons and the lease that we signed. 

That's the pickle. We're trying to be just roommates after being lovers. How's that going to work? I am deep committed to her and love her. She's admitted many times that I am the most incredible person she's ever met and set the bar for how she wants a man to treat her. She doesn't feel that spark for me and even though she cares for me very much, thinks maybe we would be better as friends. She says this and then admits that there is a possibility for us to be more. She just doesn't have anything to give to a relationship right now. She also said that if this doesn't work out that she is aware she would be losing a good thing. She is emotionally scarred, no doubt, and has had great difficulty trusting and defrosting a cold heart. Yet, here we are....in a pickle.

She knows I want more. She also knows that she has left open the possibility to our long term success...though, she wants to be friends and roommates now (and maybe that's all we'll ever be) and just work on her being happy.

Is this a no win situation???? How do we go from being lovers to just roommates? If I get a whiff of her talking to other guys, it will rip me apart. Who can live in that situation? Always wanting more and looking for signs that she is coming around. Breaking up, but seeing each other every day. 

I'm glad I get to see her every day. It is hard, though, for obvious reasons. The house which we have made our home is what is holding us together. She needs this house and can't make it financially without me (especially because $1200 in childcare eats up more than half her check). I keep thinking that God has brought us to where we are. If we didn't take this leap of faith and get a home together, we would be broken up the way most couples are. Maybe this is His way of keeping us together to work through this time.

Any advice on this situation?


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry to say but I don't think it's god keeping you two together I think it's her. It seems as if you have been taken advantage of. She gets to have you making sure all of her needs are being taken care of but has no ties to you as a partner. If she loved you in the first place, it wouldn't take less than 3 months to drift appart from you. She saw an opening for a better life than living at home, she lured you in then bam, bait and switch. 
I understand you want so badly to work but she didn't do this to be with you, she did this for a better life and you are giving it to her no strings attached.
If I where you, I would take the credit hit and move somewhere more practical for YOU, not for HER.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

just out of curiosity, did either of you leave your spouses _for_ each other? if so, this not is gods way of trying to get you two to work it out. if not, i still dont think it is gods way of getting you two to work it out. 
what i do sense is that you are desperate for this to work. you are providing her with security, affection, stability, support... everything except for passion. i would not continue living with her. when the lease is up, move out, if not sooner. make her decide if she wants you or not. if you dont you will end up in the "friend zone" while paying for her comfortable life.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Take the financial hit and move on. Living under the same roof is only going to confuse you, her, and all of your kids. I understand that the financially it will be harder on her - all the more reason to make a clean break. You don't want her to get comfortable living a life style because you're there and settle do you? If she does it will come back to bite both of you. 

You want more - she doesn't. Don't just stick around to see if you can win by default. You don't really want to win her that way do you?

There is one other option. Try being all business with her and see if it sparks something in her. Go over to the infidelity section and read about the 180. Not implying that infidelity is an issue in any form but it will detail how to be all business and emotionless with someone you care about who doesn't feel the same way.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

One word. 

Rebound.

That's what you are, and she knows it. She's not ready for a relationship, wasn't ready when she moved in with you, but the 'deal' looked so good she couldn't pass on it. It got her out of her undesirable situation with her parents, AND it temporarily gave her a distraction from her true problems.



> I keep thinking that God has brought us to where we are. If we didn't take this leap of faith and get a home together, we would be broken up the way most couples are. Maybe this is His way of keeping us together to work through this time.


If this were God's plan it wouldn't be so complicated. She would be on the same page with you. His way is decent and in order. Moving in together before totally committing to one another (marriage) isn't decent and in order. Don't get caught up with trying to justify something because you want it so bad.

I wouldn't live like this for another week. She needs a roomate, not a man. I'm sorry for you, seeing that you've invested yourself so much emotionally. It has to hurt to be in this position, but ignoring the facts don't change the facts.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Run, and consider the cost to you the price of your errors, and use it to learn for your future.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

I see so many red flags I'm not sure where to start.....

1) Moving in together after dating for only a few months
2) Blending families like it was "no big deal" after only a few months
3) Making a huge move for "practical and financial" reasons

I would move out and break it off and spend some time working on yourself. How can you know someone enough to move in with them and their kids after just a few months? You can't. How can you expect your kids to adjust to this so quickly? They can't. 

Never move in with someone for practical reasons. Never. The strength and maturity of your relationship should be what drives your life decisions, not what is financially practical. And even though you are "just" a weekend dad, you should know that how you choose to live your life impacts your children DEEPLY. Please don't forget that.

I would strongly suggest IC for you to help you process your divorce, and examine your role as a father and role model for your kids, and what type of man you want to be going forward.

A relationship worth having is a relationship you allow to unfold slowly over time, most especially when children are involved and you've been divorced. You have just made some major moves without thinking any of them all the way through and this has impacted many young lives (her kids, your kids) along with your girlfriend and you.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

No, we didn't leave our spouses for each other.

She as told me that she desparately wants this to work out, but she was miserable trying to force the feelings that she was sure would come, and now confused because they didn't. She said that she had been worried about missing those feelings, so she asked me to cool down a bit, be less needy and less available...hoping that this would work and spark her desire. But when that didn't work she knew that there was a real problem and I heard the "we need to talk" line.

We dated for 3 months earlier in the year with all the passion and spark that anyone could hope for. She got cold feet and broke it off suddenly. Four months later we began talking again tried to pick things right back up where they left off. Moved in together, though the passion was different we both marked that off as her current stress level. She told me to hang in and that she would get better...then things would fall into place. She would be more affectionate and more sex drive as things leveled off for her.

She does tell me that she doesn't want me to feel that she is taking advantage of me. Even told me she would leave if I asked her to. That would put me in a real bind, financially and it would hurt her too. She is not a dishonest person...actually transparent to a fault. 

Heck, she makes more yearly salary than I do if it wasn't for her childcare bill. 

She has told me that I'm the nicest person she has ever met and she doesn't yet know how to deal with that (saying other men always expected something for their kindness....yet I don't). I always get the feeling that she wishes I had more of an edge and was less settled. She tells me all the time to go out and do things with my friends (well, all my friends are married!). Maybe the 180 would work for me.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

try the 180. you have absolutely nothing to lose. one thing is certain, you cant stay at home and constantly face her. it will only make you more depressed/clingy/desperate, none of which are attractive. pick an outdoor hobby, go build something, whatever, just get out of the house as much as you can. even if she is the sweetest woman in the world and only wants the best for you, things are only going to get worse if you are pursuing her while living like you are.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

My advice is, if you don't want that financial "ding", to continue living together as "roommates", in separate bedrooms, no hanky panky whatsoever, and you start to date again. Move on with your life. You probably don't WANT to due to your feelings for her, but she's not interested in you romantically. Stop doing so much for her, and do for yourself and your kids.

I realize her uprooting her kids so much has an effect on them, and that is why I say continue with the living arrangement....mostly for them, and also for yourself financially. Until the lease is up, try to save money and do what you can to deal with your feelings, and hopefully move on from them. 

My advice would be much different if she didn't have children, but they must be considered in this situation.

I wish you the best!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> One word.
> 
> Rebound.
> 
> ...


I agree that I might have been a rebound initially. But a rebound fails because we lower our standards and when we heal...we see that this person is not a good match. We were apart for 4 months then found each other again. 

But, I am by anyone's standards an excellent catch. Not being arrogant here (at least I don't want to be). But it's the truth.

There is some truth to your response though. We both wanted this so bad and the doors seemed to open up to us...and we took it. Everything seemed to fall right into place for us to allow us to make this move. 

But we both knew that this wasn't the ideal way to go about this. It was a leap of faith. Some other things necessitated it...and yes, I was the hero swooping in to save the day. That hasn't translated into what we hoped it would be for us though.

I thank you all for your honest advice. We know we made a mistake...now we're trying to make the best of it. But I know we can't be just roommates. That's got no chance to work.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

She clearly wants to love you but it's just not there - not her fault - not yours - just the way it is. At least she's being honest and transparent enough to tell you the truth. Take her at her word before she talks herself into believing she feels something she doesn't and you both waste years of your lives.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

This has nothing to do with you being a good catch or not.

Our relationships are only as healthy as we are......


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I agree that I might have been a rebound initially. But a rebound fails because we lower our standards and when we heal...we see that this person is not a good match. We were apart for 4 months then found each other again.
> 
> But, I am by anyone's standards an excellent catch. Not being arrogant here (at least I don't want to be). But it's the truth.


No doubt you're a good catch. I take nothing from you. Just realize you're in a healthier state emotionally than she is. That's not a slight on you or her for that matter. She's not ready for you and what you have to offer. She isn't attracted to you the way you are to her. Sex is one thing, but you know that the relationship is built on the sum of several parts and sex is only one of them. 

You can be the nicest man in the world, but it's not about being nice. When a person isn't ready for full committment, they just aren't ready. She doesn't sound like she is, and being that she came back (likely because the thought occurred to her that she MAY be making a mistake by letting a 'good' man go) she's given this a good college try. It just isn't there. In this situation it's truly the 'It's not you it's me'.

I think the 180 would be best. It's too bad the kids are affected so much by this. I'm sure she realizes that now too. It's not fair to put them through all this moving and changing. They had enough of that just going through their parents divorce.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> My advice is, if you don't want that financial "ding", to continue living together as "roommates", in separate bedrooms, no hanky panky whatsoever, and you start to date again. Move on with your life. You probably don't WANT to due to your feelings for her, but she's not interested in you romantically. Stop doing so much for her, and do for yourself and your kids.
> 
> I realize her uprooting her kids so much has an effect on them, and that is why I say continue with the living arrangement....mostly for them, and also for yourself financially. Until the lease is up, try to save money and do what you can to deal with your feelings, and hopefully move on from them.
> 
> ...


You're right on the children. This has been the most stable environment they have been in and she is not anxious to move them again. We have a very nice home and I provide her with lots of help with the kids. 

I am a family man. This is what I want. I'm very close to my own boys and I'm a very hands on dad. I think I'm a safe bet for her. She knows her kids need stability and she needs to settle down with a good man too.....but I don't think she has healed from her past, yet. I know she hasn't. 

We know that there is something to be gained from all of this. Has to be. Either for us as a couple of for some other reason. We are both intelligent, self aware people. We didn't go into this blindly, even though we knew this wasn't the ideal way for this to go. We were just so in love earlier in the year that at that time, moving in together didn't seem so out of wack. But when we got back together, we moved to fast based on some things she was going through in her living situation.

We both still have hope that it will turn around for us. Right now, we are both just stuck in a strange living situation. It might blow up in our faces....but there is a chance in time that we will find what we are looking for. 

I believe love is a choice. Mature love, at least.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> You're right on the children. This has been the most stable environment they have been in and she is not anxious to move them again. We have a very nice home and I provide her with lots of help with the kids.
> 
> I am a family man. This is what I want. I'm very close to my own boys and I'm a very hands on dad. I think I'm a safe bet for her. She knows her kids need stability and she needs to settle down with a good man too.....but I don't think she has healed from her past, yet. I know she hasn't.
> 
> ...


I hear what you are saying, but it seems to me that you are in denial about her feelings towards you. Consider my advice, and move forward with your life with your children as best you can. If there is no commitment between you and her, you need to focus on yourself, heal your heart, and start dating again. Just my advice, and that's what I would be doing. I would also minimize the time spent at home with her. Just some things to think about. Use your head in this situation, not your heart.

Good luck!


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> I hear what you are saying, but it seems to me that you are in denial about her feelings towards you. Consider my advice, and move forward with your life with your children as best you can. If there is no commitment between you and her, you need to focus on yourself, heal your heart, and start dating again. Just my advice, and that's what I would be doing. I would also minimize the time spent at home with her. Just some things to think about. Use your head in this situation, not your heart.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks  Dating....uggg. That's what would make this blow up in our face, I'm afraid. And I might be in denial about her feelings...I don't know. But she says things frequently that keep me aware that she is still uncertain about her decision. She obviously still is entertaining the possibility that I'm "the one" just based on things she says to me. It's just at this moment, she doesn't have much to offer me and she knows she needs to concentrate on healing and her kids. 

That's the pickle. Sharing a house. I don't "need" her, emotionally. I do "prefer" her. But I'm really devoted to her. Trust me, I've had many conversations with myself asking whether I could sacrifice the short term pain of it all for a possibility at long term happiness. That's what has kept me from reacting to my dissastisfaction and putting her out. I weigh my reactions and behavior very measuredly. And I have always been able to shoulder the stress and pain in my life if it got me to where I wanted to go. The big question is, will this get me to where I want to go ( I likely won't know until I am there!)? And if not, am I still prepared to make the sacrifice for her just because I care so much for the well being of her and her children?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> she says things frequently that keep me aware that she is still uncertain about her decision. She obviously still is entertaining the possibility that I'm "the one" just based on things she says to me. It's just at this moment, she doesn't have much to offer me and she knows she needs to concentrate on healing and her kids.


Wouldn't you prefer she was as sure as you were? I wouldn't want to be someones option instead of someones choice, but that's me.

She's confused. She doesn't want to hurt you. She doesn't want to hurt her kids. The lesser of two evils is to suck it up and make everyone else happy, but where does that leave her? That's what she's going back and forth over.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Falling love is not supposed to be this hard.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Thanks  But she says things frequently that keep me aware that she is still uncertain about her decision. She obviously still is entertaining the possibility that I'm "the one" just based on things she says to me.


Hear me out on this: She is saying things to keep you from kicking her and her kids out of the house. Trust me on this one. I know how a female can be: say things to get what she wants.....and it works.

Also, if you were "the one" she would already know it, in her head and in her heart. What she is doing is playing you and buying time in a stable atmosphere. I personally don't blame her on this one, as she's doing for the well-being of her children, I hope.

If you care about her and the kids, my previous advice remains the same. If you care about YOURSELF, live your own life while living in the same house until that lease is up. It CAN be done, but it will take effort on your part. Stop being a doormat to her. Life is too short.




By the way, when is your lease up? :scratchhead:


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> Wouldn't you prefer she was as sure as you were? I wouldn't want to be someones option instead of someones choice, but that's me.
> 
> She's confused. She doesn't want to hurt you. She doesn't want to hurt her kids. The lesser of two evils is to suck it up and make everyone else happy, but where does that leave her? That's what she's going back and forth over.


You're 100% right, I would. At this point, even though she says it has nothing to do with me and it's all about her, I still have to assume that somehow it IS about me. How she reacts to me. I'm too nice and available. Too accommodating. Maybe I try too hard to be perfect. She has alluded to those things. Even asked me to make myself less available to her. She's extremely self aware and transparent. Once she said "You know, I'm not used to someone being so nice to me....you could be more of a jerk" (to which I know she didn't mean literally....just wants me to have more of an edge and make her chase)...then she immediately said to herself, "but of course I have kids and don't need that". 

I'm well aware of the psychology of relationships. The dance...the game. I chase, you withdraw. I withdraw, you chase. I just had hoped that at some point I would be done playing that game. I guess the problem is that the girl I have chosen isn't emotionally healthy enough.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I guess the problem is that the girl I have chosen isn't emotionally healthy enough.


Nope - the problem is that the girl you've chosen hasn't chosen you. Despite how hard she's trying to talk herself into it.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

it has nothing to do with being emotionaly healthy. if you give everything freely it starts to mean nothing. think of it like this, feed a man nothing but bread and water every day and give him a steak once a month. he will LOVE the steak and would at that moment be quite convinced that he could never live without it. give him steak and water for a month and then give him a loaf of bread. same deal, he will be so sick of the steak that he will love the bread. this is why relationships need to be balanced. you are giving her so much "steak" that she has gotten sick of it. it isnt new, it isnt exciting. if you dont show that you are capable of holding back then your affection will have little meaning. it wont mean she is special, it means that that is who you are and nothing more. i could make a robot that would tell you everyday it loves you and give you money and a house to live in. would that excite you? now, lets make it even more realistic. the robot wants you to commit to it and tell you that you love it. you get the point? it is simple psychology. we cant help how we feel, we can only help what we do about it. if she wants a stronger man, you need to be that. since you are stuck in a "nice guy" rut you need to get away from her. go do things on your own and "man up".


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> Hear me out on this: She is saying things to keep you from kicking her and her kids out of the house. Trust me on this one. I know how a female can be: say things to get what she wants.....and it works.
> 
> Also, if you were "the one" she would already know it, in her head and in her heart. What she is doing is playing you and buying time in a stable atmosphere. I personally don't blame her on this one, as she's doing for the well-being of her children, I hope.
> 
> ...


Looooooong time.....end of August. 

I'm struggling to agree with you there. Just because I know the situation better, of course. I thnk she was convinced I was "the one"....that's why she took this leap of faith and moved herself and her kids so quickly. She told me on many occasions that she would never make this move if she wasn't sure....certainly wouldn't move her kids. Told me that she wasn't doing this just to move out of her prior living situation. She said that if she wasnt' sure about me and her, she wouldn't make this move with me. She was perfect for me. I had no doubts either.

But things were less than ideal for us relationship wise. We had tremendous communication...talked and talked and talked. The affection just was missing (but she isn't a very affectionate person anyway). The spark was missing (which we had experienced earlier in the year), but we both attributed that to work related stress and some emotional and turmoil that she was going through. *She kept telling to be patient and hang in there...it would pay off when things settled down for her*. We were both sure this was where our lives were heading, but some things facilitated this move quicker than was ideal for me, for sure. I did it for her. She was living with her parents (on a golf course, albeit) but there was so much tension and and negativity in that situation that she was on the verge of a breakdown. So I offer a solution: Move in with me ( live 100 miles from her) and commute to work. When I find a renter, I'll rent my house out and we will find a house near your area to rent together. I'll commute until I find work in the area (her area is a much larger area and better jobs).

She lived with me for 5 weeks. Then we found awesome renters and then a house of our own in her area.

She has told me if i want, she will move out and back to her parents. But I need her help financially to keep the house....and we both love the house and neighborhood.

I wish love could be simple. But this website exists because it is not. This might not be an ideal situation...and I appreciate some great advice I've already received.....but i still have hope for us if I handle this correctly.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

IMO you can't make yourself feel what you just don't feel. I'm a complicated woman. I know I need someone in my life that will stimulate me in such a way that I won't be bored, someone who I have a passion and desire for, not just sexually, but crave their company in general. Yes love is a choice, and she probably does love you. She's not IN love though. There's a huge difference between the two, and she probably knows she NEEDS that in love feeling to sustain her. Otherwise at some point she'll be looking elsewhere for what she lacks.

Treating her well is great. You sound like the epitome of what a nice guy is, but for her, right now? She's not ready for that. She may not be done with that cycle some women go through of choosing the wrong guy until she's had enough of that type. Her picker is still broken so to speak. She has to go through this process on her own, or she's going to really hurt you later. Even though her head says this is the road she should take, her heart tells her otherwise. Something in it is missing for her. You can't fill that space, you're not made that way.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Hear me out on this: She is saying things to keep you from kicking her and her kids out of the house. Trust me on this one. I know how a female can be: say things to get what she wants.....and it works.
> 
> Also, if you were "the one" she would already know it, in her head and in her heart. What she is doing is playing you and buying time in a stable atmosphere. I personally don't blame her on this one, as she's doing for the well-being of her children, I hope.


:iagree: 

Southernwife you are so correct. It's survival. A woman has to protect her family. It sounds harsh but it's the reality of this situation.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Btw, you guys are awesome! I might offer counter debate, but don't think I'm not processing this advice. The debate is just a way of cycling through and reasoning with myself.

Very good stuff here. Thanks!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> She has told me if i want, she will move out and back to her parents


She says that but she knows you don't want to do that, and it won't happen. She's putting it on you to lessen her guilt about how this is turning out with this proposition and to keep her from making the decision herself.

You honestly think that her work stress is at the root of this? The more you share, I just can't believe that. It wouldn't cause all of this because really that's a temporary situation. If anything, her homelife should be the place she can come and let all that go and relax, especially if you're as accommodating to her and her kids. It doesn't make any sense.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> She says that but she knows you don't want to do that, and it won't happen. She's putting it on you to lessen her guilt about how this is turning out with this proposition and to keep her from making the decision herself.
> 
> You honestly think that her work stress is at the root of this? The more you share, I just can't believe that. It wouldn't cause all of this because really that's a temporary situation. If anything, her homelife should be the place she can come and let all that go and relax, especially if you're as accommodating to her and her kids. It doesn't make any sense.


Again, I agree with what you say in the first paragraph.

Work stress is not the root of this. It did play a factor at one time in disguising things, though. 

But do you really believe that 'in love" feeling sustains us? I think it is the opposite. "In love" or limerance is fleeting. Comes and goes. The euphoric high of that can be a motivator...but the mature love is what sustains us when limerance is absent. But your other points are well taken. Thanks


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Man, I am in quite the situation. I've been dating this girl for a few months and we agreed for practical and relationship reasons to move in together. Financially, it would help with two incomes and I wanted to get her out of her parents house (she moved back home when she divorced-I'm divorced too). I'm 39, she's 32.
> 
> So we've been living together for 3 months. She has two small boys, 2 and 4. I have two boys, 9 and 11 (they are with their mom other than weekends). It's been a struggle for us, because we moved in together more for practical reasons but we loved each other and saw a future together. I took all of the financial risk and I'm commuting 1.5 hours each day to work to get a house near her work and daycare for her kids. We really weren't ready for this, moreso her in terms of relationship but we took a leap of faith and were sure that we would grow even closer and live happily ever after.
> 
> ...


Yeah, stop being her doormat and get your own place.
You're being used, she'll never respect you as a man for accepting this situation.

Move on, you're being manipulated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> But do you really believe that 'in love" feeling sustains us? I think it is the opposite. "In love" or limerance is fleeting. Comes and goes. The euphoric high of that can be a motivator...but the mature love is what sustains us when limerance is absent.


Oh, I believe things other than mature love keep the wheels rolling in a relationship and can sustain it way past its expiration date. Codependency. Financial issues. Habit. Fear of leaving to face the unknown. Familiarization with playing a certain role. Denial of what is. 

Nope, mature love isn't the only thing that sustains relationships; if it was, there would be no need for this forum, which is populated with people remaining in very sad relationships.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> But *do you really believe that 'in love" feeling sustains us?* I think it is the opposite. "In love" or limerance is fleeting. Comes and goes. The euphoric high of that can be a motivator...but the mature love is what sustains us when limerance is absent. But your other points are well taken. Thanks


No. But I think the relationship fares better if you at least START there. Don't you? Otherwise everything else is forced. Thus the situation you find yourself in with her.

I'm still very much in love with my husband after almost 10 years together. As a matter of fact, I feel MORE in love than when we first started out. It hasn't fleeted, or come and gone. It's not a euphoric high like when we first started dating either. It has matured into something far more beautiful and consistant. Better than what I had originally imagined.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Southernwife you are so correct. It's survival. A woman has to protect her family. It sounds harsh but it's the reality of this situation.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> Oh, *I believe things other than mature love keep the wheels rolling in a relationship and can sustain it way past its expiration date. Codependency. Financial issues. Habit. Fear of leaving to face the unknown. Familiarization with playing a certain role. Denial of what is.*
> 
> Nope, mature love isn't the only thing that sustains relationships; if it was, there would be no need for this forum, which is populated with people remaining in very sad relationships.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

It's not a pickle, it's her stringing you along until something better comes along and trying to set it up so she can cake-eat too if possible. She is not only using your kindness against you, she is also using your desire to be a family man and even USING YOUR CHILDREN against you to make you think you have a chance. You don't have a chance, she will drop you like a rock when she finds the next better thing, whether you are still her roomate or not.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

It's interesting that the intention was to lessen a financial burden in the beginning. Turns out it only created a bigger one. Out of the fryer and into the fire.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Strange as it might seem, I'd suggest family therapy (kids included - all of them), couples counseling, and individual therapy for her. 

You guys all owe it to the kids to not upset the apple cart in terms of their lives. When push comes to shove, the kids don't really care if you are roommates or a sexual couple, what they care about is consistency and dependability and seeing two responsible adults communicate in order to move on (whatever that might be).

So it's a weird situation. She made some mistakes in judgement in making her decision. Honestly, maybe she could not really know herself well enough to foresee how she would react, a lot of people have a lot of blind spots when it comes to themselves. I dunno, someone who is honest enough to speak up when there is a problem, might be someone worth holding out for while she sorts out her feelings. I would move cautiously on moving out of the house. There are other ways you can gain distance other than actual distance. You could, for instance, rent a room close to your work from a friend or coworker or in someone's apartment on the cheap, just one night a week, and then stay there one night a week to give her some space and time alone with her kids. Vice versa, if her kids visit their bio dad, then maybe she could take some getaways or go to a friend's place some evenings during the weekend. 

You could also plan out meals and chores the way people do when they are in a group living situation, if you are going to be roommates then you need to be roommates, this means dividing things up in terms of duties.

It may be that she is having the female form of emasculation. 
That is, every woman needs to know that she can make it on her own, that being with a man is an actual choice because that is what she wants, not what she needs. Maybe she SAYS she is swamped with work and so forth, but what she might really be saying is that she feels that she could not cope without you and that is scary, it creates an imbalance in the relationship. 

Just some stuff for thought.
For me, if I were in a relationship where someone could tell me their true feelings, at risk of hurting me, I wouldn't leave so easily. I would still try at a friendship. Even women who can pull it together work wise and mothering wise can still have self-esteem and self-doubt. 

It could be that she does not have great relationship skills, she wants someone else to help her feel alive. That's where the individual therapy would come in handy for her. She may have made the right decision, in terms of moving in together, but did not have a clear picture of what she wanted AFTER that. That scenario is very common.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Strange as it might seem, I'd suggest family therapy (kids included - all of them), couples counseling, and individual therapy for her.
> 
> You guys all owe it to the kids to not upset the apple cart in terms of their lives. When push comes to shove, the kids don't really care if you are roommates or a sexual couple, what they care about is consistency and dependability and seeing two responsible adults communicate in order to move on (whatever that might be).
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for that. I know some people on here quick to see this as situation where I was manipulated...but I don't feel that way. 

As you said, she is very clear about her feelings as she becomes aware of them. It's also important that we aren't mindless people driven by feelings alone. She has been aware of each step along this 'journey'. 

We had the same goals: We loved each other and wanted to build a future around one another. True, we moved in together quicker than either were ready for relationship-wise. We knew that from the get go. Ideally, we would have waited. We took a giant leap of faith that our love would sustain us and would figure it all out together.

She was honest with me up front, telling me "i'm a case". Meaning there were some emotional issues that she was working through. This made her emotionally unavailable at times. But we kept drawing from our earlier relationship where we were so crazy in love that we thought about each other all day and even talked about marriage. So, that chemistry was there. But the second time around she was really going through some healing stages of the past 10 years of a crazy life and started a new job. That stress was what we were waiting for to settle down so that we could get back to the good stuff that we had before. Now, she admits that she is still damaged and needs time to heal herself and for her kids and doesn't have the necessities to give to this relationship right now....all the while saying that maybe she wants more, but is just incapable of having a serious relationship at the moment. She just has nothing to give.

Now I take all that in for what its' worth...and it's not excuses or her stringing me along til something better comes along. That may happen, but she is sincere in her explanation to me. But I still agree with other stuff I've read. In some fashion, she has lost interest in me. In some way, I'm not as attractive as before. Maybe I'm boring, and settled and I'm ready to be a family where she is unsure. Maybe I need to pull back and see if she will chase. I can play the game....I'm just not thrilled about it.

And I do have a place to stay where I work for a couple of nights per week. I have been doing that. She even told me this week that she appreciates that and enjoys have the house to just her and the boys. She maybe has never really had that freedom and it is healthy and liberating in a sense.

There is hope for us. I've just got to pull way back. Can anyone link the 180 threads or show me how to find them?


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> She was honest with me up front, telling me "i'm a case". Meaning there were some emotional issues that she was working through. This made her emotionally unavailable at times. But we kept drawing from our earlier relationship where we were so crazy in love that we thought about each other all day and even talked about marriage. So, that chemistry was there. But the second time around she was really going through some healing stages of the past 10 years of a crazy life and started a new job. That stress was what we were waiting for to settle down so that we could get back to the good stuff that we had before. Now, she admits that she is still damaged and needs time to heal herself and for her kids and doesn't have the necessities to give to this relationship right now....all the while saying that maybe she wants more, but is just incapable of having a serious relationship at the moment. She just has nothing to give.


I hope you both get what you want out of this. I really do. I just don't believe it will work out like you want it to. Crazy in love doesn't just 'disappear'. Somewhere it would still be in there. You admit to having it still... your flame hasn't gone out. What happened to hers? You haven't been together long enough for it to fade unless it was only infatuation. 

She's not ready. If you're willing to hang on for something that may never happen then more power to you. I'd like to know how things turn out over the next 6 months. Please keep us posted and good luck to you.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Bit-

It was a strange thing. We dated for several months and were absolotely crazy for each other. She was driving the bus, so to speak. One day I was her best friend and she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me....and literally the next day she put the brakes on and said we needed to break up before things progressed to far. She wasn't ready for that and felt we were getting in deep. She wanted to be honest and fair.....we didn't see each other for 4 months, though we talked off and on.

I was going out with some other girl. I sent my ex (E) an email with kind of an ultimatum (it was stupid) saying "let me know now if think there is a chance for us...otherwise I'm moving on". She his the roof that I would try this ploy with her (though I was serious) and we didn't speak for 6 weeks.

Then she started emailing me again and we started talking. A month later she was living with me at my original house before we got a house together. 

Those 4 months that we were apart something changed in her. Maybe she finally had space and time to start to deal with the hell that was the last 10 yrs of her life. Lots of emotional and spritual conflict that was overwhelming her. Living with her mom only added to that as she felt judged and constant negativity. She went to a Psychiatrist. He had her on meds that only served to deepen her anxiety, depression, and hopelessness.

That's where we started talking again. I saw her situation and wanted to save her. She came down and visited me a couple of weekends and felt that connection...that 'click' again. And we went from there. 

And now here we are. So, we have had that chemistry, being in love for months earlier. Emotionally, she hit a wall somewhere when we were apart that changed the dynamics. When she warned me about what I was getting myself into, saying "I'm a case"....I didn't fully understand and figured she just need me to step in and make everything better.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You really do not describe a woman worth having in your life.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> That's where we started talking again. I saw her situation and wanted to save her. She came down and visited me a couple of weekends and felt that connection...that 'click' again. And we went from there.
> 
> And now here we are. So, we have had that chemistry, being in love for months earlier. Emotionally, she hit a wall somewhere when we were apart that changed the dynamics. When she warned me about what I was getting myself into, saying "I'm a case"....I didn't fully understand and figured she just need me to step in and make everything better.


This sounds like a hot mess. You wanted to save her? Bad ju-ju right there. She doesn't need to be saved, she needs to get herself together. She needs to recover from her bad situations and figure out how to problem solve on her own.

2 halves don't make a whole in relationships. Only 2 whole people who come together can really make it work.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> ...That's where we started talking again. I saw her situation and wanted to save her. She came down and visited me a couple of weekends and felt that connection...that 'click' again. And we went from there.
> 
> And now here we are. So, we have had that chemistry, being in love for months earlier. Emotionally, she hit a wall somewhere when we were apart that changed the dynamics. When she warned me about what I was getting myself into, saying "I'm a case"....I didn't fully understand and figured she just need me to step in and make everything better.


Those moments of connection really are wonderful, but in a long term relationship they are not constantly present - it's like when you go on a vacation somewhere and fall in love with the place, then move there because you liked it so much, but as soon as you become familiar the magic wears off. Relationships aren't magical, its those times when things aren't always clicking that defines the health of the relationship, and yours is in bad shape (sorry to say).


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Also, I used to think like you. I even got married before with the mindset that if I tried this or that, he would come around to my way of thinking. I believed we were good for one another, he just needed to do this or that and it would be perfect.

The truth was, I liked the science project. It kept me interested for far too many years. I couldn't and wouldn't see that the man I was with and went so far to marry wasn't relationship material. I may have had my own baggage, but he had a truckload full of stuff that I would never be able to love him through. It would take too much out of me to try, only to get half of what I deserved. 

I deserved a whole man. Period. When I realized that, I had to make a decision... we fought a lot and when we didn't fight, we'd make love and I would be right back at square one. It confused me that he could be that way with me but then turn around and be someone I didn't know. Someone emotionally cut off or unavailable. He would tell me he loved me and that he wanted me in his life, but his interaction and behavior with me was the opposite of that. He NEEDED me, he didn't WANT me. I wanted more than that from him.

I did the 180 before I really knew what the 180 really was. I started to distance myself. I got some new hobbies, I got busy, I stopped obsessing over where the course of our relationship was going and letting his moods from day to day dictate how I was going to respond. 

I think you need the 180 and you need it really bad. She's already in the beginning stages of it herself, and here you are still trying to cling and hang onto what it WAS a few months ago. You have to stop.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> This sounds like a hot mess. You wanted to save her? Bad ju-ju right there. She doesn't need to be saved, she needs to get herself together. She needs to recover from her bad situations and figure out how to problem solve on her own.
> 
> 2 halves don't make a whole in relationships. Only 2 whole people who come together can really make it work.


Don't I know it. I wanted to get her into a safe, stable environment. Give her some help with her two small children. Help her financially. I just couldn't stand to sit back and watch her struggle and go off the deep end. I loved her. 

I thought once I got her into that environment and relieved some of the pressure and stress she felt, things would improve for her. Things have improved for her. Before, she was getting up at 4am and going to bed at 7:30pm and had no time to enjoy anything, much less her kids. She was stretched too thin. That has changed.

I don't want to paint an undesireable picture of her. She is incredible. I've never clicked with someone on an intellectual/emotional/physical level like her. Earlier in the year, we were astounded how we were each other's perfect match.

Like I said, when we got back together she was different. I didn't realize how much she was struggling and I was still holding on to the what we had a few months ago. Since then, it has been an ongoing struggle for her to get back to 'herself' again. She kept telling me that she was getting there, to hang on. Then a few weeks ago she said "I'm miserable and I need to be honest with myself and to you. This was a mistake. I want so badly to feel that love for you ...but I can't try and force it any longer."

We're just doing the best we can and seeing where it leads us.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> Also, I used to think like you. I even got married before with the mindset that if I tried this or that, he would come around to my way of thinking. I believed we were good for one another, he just needed to do this or that and it would be perfect.
> 
> The truth was, I liked the science project. It kept me interested for far too many years. I couldn't and wouldn't see that the man I was with and went so far to marry wasn't relationship material. I may have had my own baggage, but he had a truckload full of stuff that I would never be able to love him through. It would take too much out of me to try, only to get half of what I deserved.
> 
> ...


Okay, I agree. Where is the 180 guidlines????

I have backed way off already. I don't text or call her... I wait for her to initiate contact. I don't ask for hugs or kisses or get affectionate. I'm doing my own thing more. 

Crazy thing is, she told me she wanted me to try doing some of these things a while back. Said she hates clingy. I'm not normally clingy. Not getting my needs met made me clingy and it just made things worse and made her feel pressured. 

We still do things together. She cooks dinner for us. We talk. Laugh. There are a lot of good things which I might not have described here. But something huge is missing and she finally put it on the table. I was miserable too....but patient.

Now I need to redefine who I am in this relationship and get my swagger back, so to speak. 

Thanks so much for your honesty and even bluntness.

Where do i find the 180 stuff?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You sound like a very nice, stand-up kinda guy. Please don't think people are giving you harsh opinions because they have some axe to grind with you; after all, this is cyberspace and we don't know you. However, strangers can frequently see things that you cannot because you are in the thick of the situation.

You have mentioned several times the four months you and your gf were apart. When you got back together, things had changed. Any possibility she was hot and heavy with another man during those four months?

I am only speculating here, but is it possible she fell for another man, and he dumped her after those four months you two were apart? Just asking ...

Your gf has lots of issues. They are not your's to fix. It sounds like you are the type of guy who likes to rescue a damsel in distress. Granted, she has a somewhat distressing situation, but she's telling you that she isn't all that into you. I'm sorry about that.

Things may work out, but take it from a woman: when I've told a man I'm not that into him, I meant it. For good.


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## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Prodigal said:


> You sound like a very nice, stand-up kinda guy. Please don't think people are giving you harsh opinions because they have some axe to grind with you; after all, this is cyberspace and we don't know you. However, strangers can frequently see things that you cannot because you are in the thick of the situation.
> 
> You have mentioned several times the four months you and your gf were apart. When you got back together, things had changed. Any possibility she was hot and heavy with another man during those four months?
> 
> ...


Thanks. I appreciate all advice and I take it for what it's worth. She was not in a relationship during the time we were apart. She did go on a few dates, but no one special. 

Things changed because I think she finally had time to deal with some issues from her past. Divorce being one of them. She was married for a very short time but there was abuse involved.

Thing is, she tells me one day that we just need to be friends and roommates and she doesn't have feelings for me. Two days later she says she knows she's just screwed up right now and tht she won't always be that way. Says she knows she's ridiculous for breaking up and she would be losing a good thing if it doesn't work out. So, she leaves that possibility in there. She's not sure. 

I think she knows I'm a great guy and I'm good for her. She just is missing that feeling and she doesn't know if it's me or that she is emotionally screwed up and scarred.

I think it's a combination. Like I said, need to get my swag back and redefine myself here. I'm too nice and accommodating.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I borrowed this from another poster named Lon, who also borrowed it from another poster morituri. You can navigate where it says OW/OM because in your case, there is no other person involved. I hope this is helpful to you.

Here is the rules of the 180 that I borrowed from morituri's signature:

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. 

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I think she knows I'm a great guy and I'm good for her. She just is missing that feeling and she doesn't know if it's me or that she is emotionally screwed up and scarred.
> 
> I think it's a combination. Like I said, need to get my swag back and redefine myself here. I'm too nice and accommodating.


Yes, you are a great guy, so take the list provided by A Bit Much and get started on the program. I was in my early 20's when a wonderful man came into my life. I eventually got bored with his kindness and left him for a "bad boy." 

Now, looking back many years in hindsight, I see my folly.

Your gf may not get herself straightened out for years. Sorry, but that just may be what happens. In the meantime, the list posted by A Bit Much is to help you get beyond sitting on your arse and waiting for gf to get herself straightened out. What we want generally doesn't happen on our schedule ... sad, but true.


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