# Fellas - Obligatory "Relations?" Just Role With It???



## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Good Morning, sorry for the fancy pancy way of stating this, but i'm at work, so i just can't come out and subject line "Obligation Sex." For the most part, i'm a happily married man, some are aware of my ongoing struggle. If i came home from work early right now, i'm take my wife's hand, and lead her upstairs to the bed room. I should be happy with this fact. A person who is dying of thirst, begging of water, shouldn't slap away an offer just because it isn't bottled.... sorry, poor anollogy, but you get my point.

Only difference is, if i came home right now, and just sat there... she wouldn't take my by the hand, and lead me to the bedroom. This has pretty much been the way it always is. I've shared this story with older, married siblings, and they told me i am not alone. But it would be nice, if i felt ... desired. I'm the main initiator 90% of the time (she initiates when she thinks i'm upset with the fact that its been longer than a week since we've had sex, so to me, her intiation is... "this will get you out of your dumps") 

In the meantime, its me that's the one that's trying to spice things up. Its me who is buying the toys, buying the outfits, trying new positions, its me who is yearning for it every other day like a sick puppy dog. Even though i've been sleeping with this woman since the mid-90's I can still look forward to sleeping with her like its our first time ( I love her and i love that ass of hers, and she's highly attractive ). But i doubt ... very seriously that she longs for the passion of my embrace. I doubt she looks forward to the moment of our lovemaking, if anything, i think she probably can't wait till its over. When we are making love, she's down for anything, any position, lets me do anal, which is not her cup of tea, so i only go there once every few months, but there there's literally nothing she won't allow. I bring her to climax everytime, and i know she enjoys it. But at the end of the day, i can't help but feeling like she's doing it... just because she thinks its expected of her. I'm HL, she's LL.

Help? If possible? :scratchhead:
Ladies can chime in as well.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I was in your boat a few days ago except I'm the female I don't like obligatory relations.It makes me feel like a drooling pervert trying to take the virginity of some pure choir boy or something.gross.
Luckily after SO and I had a few days of serious discussion he understood how I was feeling and is really working on his expression of desire and intensity.
I had to shut down on him before it hit home though.I stopped being the one to initiate and I stopped my constant stroking of his ego with praise,compliments,touching,and all the other things I was doing to stoke his fire.I refused to react when he would touch me and do things to turn me on.I wanted him to know how it felt.He finally came to me and told me he hadn't realized that he was letting his shyness and hangups about expressing emotion ruin our sex life but now he gets it.

He got the message.But your partner may not be as eager to work on changing as mine is.
Even if you do a switch and cut out doing all the things you've been doing,she may not get it and she might end up angry at you or she may think you're cheating.
People don't understand that the act of sex isn't enough.If we wanted the act we'd go have a ONS and be done with it.We wouldn't even get married because all our needs would be met with the ONS.You want active participation.You want to feel desired,needed,craved.But it feels like LD people can't wrap their brain around that so they don't ever budge from their own way of thinking.
I wish I had advice or a solution for you.But you do have my sympathy.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I was in your boat a few days ago except I'm the female I don't like obligatory relations.It makes me feel like a drooling pervert trying to take the virginity of some pure choir boy or something.gross.
> Luckily after SO and I had a few days of serious discussion he understood how I was feeling and is really working on his expression of desire and intensity.
> I had to shut down on him before it hit home though.I stopped being the one to initiate and I stopped my constant stroking of his ego with praise,compliments,touching,and all the other things I was doing to stoke his fire.I refused to react when he would touch me and do things to turn me on.I wanted him to know how it felt.He finally came to me and told me he hadn't realized that he was letting his shyness and hangups about expressing emotion ruin our sex life but now he gets it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your response. We've talked about till we are blue in the face ( which is kinda hard since we are black  ) and its too the point where we are beyond talking. If i pressed the issue we could have sex 2-3 times a week... but it would be bland, vanilla sex, so i try to hold out for at least 1x a week, till i can't take it anymore and jump her. I've tried holding back, it doesn't matter, she seems something is wrong, knows what it is, initiates sex, but if i wait out again it will take a couple weeks. 

I know women are supposed to be the emotional ones, but it really hurts, as a male, when you think the other person doesn't desire you, especially when its the person you've sacrificed all for the spend the rest of your life with. We have a mutual, unmarried friend, who said she can't to get married, so she can make love to her husband everynight, adding, "That's one of the benefits of being married." ... I wish.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Rob774 said:


> Thanks for your response. We've talked about till we are blue in the face ( which is kinda hard since we are black  ) and its too the point where we are beyond talking. If i pressed the issue we could have sex 2-3 times a week... but it would be bland, vanilla sex, so i try to hold out for at least 1x a week, till i can't take it anymore and jump her. I've tried holding back, it doesn't matter, she seems something is wrong, knows what it is, initiates sex, but if i wait out again it will take a couple weeks.
> 
> I know women are supposed to be the emotional ones, but it really hurts, as a male, when you think the other person doesn't desire you, especially when its the person you've sacrificed all for the spend the rest of your life with. We have a mutual, unmarried friend, who said she can't to get married, so she can make love to her husband everynight, adding, "That's one of the benefits of being married." ... I wish.


 I'm sorry.I wish I understood how the LD mind actually works.
Don't envy anyone who marries the single friend though.It's possible she's saying those things to impress or make herself seem more attractive.It's also possible she's HD but according to TAM statistics it's not likely.Apparently HD women are rare.I don't know how true that is though so I really can't say for sure.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

I think I am probably LD and H is HD. We have consistently been 2-3 per week. I only initiate 1-2 per month and I don't think it should be such a big deal. My husband doesn't plan any of the meals but he eats...
I don't initiate, but I have sex. My philosophy is if you want it come and get it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

LdyVenus said:


> I think I am probably LD and H is HD. We have consistently been 2-3 per week. I only initiate 1-2 per month and I don't think it should be such a big deal. My husband doesn't plan any of the meals but he eats...
> I don't initiate, but I have sex. My philosophy is if you want it come and get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


this doesn't bother your husband?The come get it if you want it thing?

About the food comparison...does your husband know how to cook?


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## Code-Welder (Dec 17, 2012)

LdyVenus said:


> I think I am probably LD and H is HD. We have consistently been 2-3 per week. I only initiate 1-2 per month and I don't think it should be such a big deal. My husband doesn't plan any of the meals but he eats...
> I don't initiate, but I have sex. My philosophy is if you want it come and get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand where you are coming from, but if you showed more enthusiasm and initiated more often maybe hubby might cook dinner some nights.

Men like to know or want their SO to enjoy sex as much as they enjoy it. Showing him some real enthusiasm not faked, helps him feel better. When I use to feel better I did cook for my wife.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Code-Welder said:


> I understand where you are coming from, but if you showed more enthusiasm and initiated more often maybe hubby might cook dinner some nights.
> 
> Men like to know or want their SO to enjoy sex as much as they enjoy it. Showing him some real enthusiasm not faked, helps him feel better. When I use to feel better I did cook for my wife.


I think she was speaking metaphorically, but i get your point, and i'm right there with you. I just want to feel like she is looking forward to is as much as me.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Rob774,

I am with you man (as I think many of us are). I get duty sex about 3x a month. We have talked it to death and I am tired. I have to initiate 100% of the time and pretty much get rejected 99%.

I already have esteem issues (MY problem) and over the last 8 years or so this has really drug it into the gutter. She has FINALLY in the last year or so come back around to letting me go down on her and use my fingers on her.

But even that is now turned into "I want to feel good". NOT "I want you" or "Take me" or anything else just makes me feel like a human vibrator.

So I feel for you and I hope it works out for you!


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Rob774,
> 
> I am with you man (as I think many of us are). I get duty sex about 3x a month. We have talked it to death and I am tired. I have to initiate 100% of the time and pretty much get rejected 99%.
> 
> ...


Thanks man, that's what makes me feel so bad, she is down for about anything... once we get started, but its not like she comes out and says, "Anal tonight" or "Watch me do this striptease first..." i would die if that happens. 

I just wish i felt half the desire towards me, in comparison to what i feel for her.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Rob774 said:


> I just wish i felt half the desire towards me, in comparison to what i feel for her.


said this same thing about SO way too many times


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I believe it goes along with the conception men are supposed to ask women to dance, men are supposed to ask women out on dates and by extension men are supposed to ask women for sex. Ironically, to any male who has ever had his advances rebuked, I believe many women are deathly afraid of rejection. They know if they sit back and wait eventually a man will ask them.

I think what these women fail to appreciate is men feel every bit as vulnerable when they put themselves out there and ask for that dance or that date or for sex. We risk getting rejected...in reality probably more so than than a woman does asking a man.


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## LdyVenus (Dec 1, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> this doesn't bother your husband?The come get it if you want it thing?
> 
> About the food comparison...does your husband know how to cook?


This come and get it thing took many years to figure out. He takes being turned down as being rejected. We've had many talks and changed the dynamics over the years. We used to just schedule every other dayish, that didn't work too well, because he would still get turned down occasionally. I discovered google porn history and realized that almost every day we didn't, he did it by himself. I honestly think he could do it every day. My H has probably made dinner a total of 5 times in 9 years.



Code-Welder said:


> I understand where you are coming from, but if you showed more enthusiasm and initiated more often maybe hubby might cook dinner some nights.
> 
> Men like to know or want their SO to enjoy sex as much as they enjoy it. Showing him some real enthusiasm not faked, helps him feel better. When I use to feel better I did cook for my wife.


I absolutely enjoy sex. I just don't *need* it. I think a lot of HD use it as stress relief, which causes more stress if they can't get what they feel that they *need*. Also my H doesn't understand the whole all day foreplay thing. Yes I've told him. He spends a lot of time at the computer. When I get affection, I know what he wants because he goes overboard. LOL my relationship is just as complicated as everybody else's i guess.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Rob774 said:


> Thanks for your response. We've talked about till we are blue in the face ( which is kinda hard since we are black  ) and its too the point where we are beyond talking. If i pressed the issue we could have sex 2-3 times a week... but it would be bland, vanilla sex, so i try to hold out for at least 1x a week, till i can't take it anymore and jump her. I've tried holding back, it doesn't matter, she seems something is wrong, knows what it is, initiates sex, but if i wait out again it will take a couple weeks.
> 
> I know women are supposed to be the emotional ones, but it really hurts, as a male, when you think the other person doesn't desire you, especially when its the person you've sacrificed all for the spend the rest of your life with. We have a mutual, unmarried friend, who said she can't to get married, so she can make love to her husband everynight, adding, "That's one of the benefits of being married." ... I wish.


I can relate to this. If I push it, We may have sex 3 times a week. She acts like she is doing me a favor if we have more. Just last week we had in 4 days in a row. I thought she was about to die. I was ready for the fifth night and after we got started, I felt so bad, like i was raping her. I actually started to mark the days we have sex. Yes, it's weird. 

After 20 years together, I guess I expect too much.

Once a week is good for her. She will initiate then. Maybe for the same reasons as you. I will talk about some of our single friends and she may feel threatened.I would like her to actually stroke my ego just a little, put some effort into seducing me, put on some purfume on early in the evening so I know what she wants, touch my butt if we are both in the kitchen....anything.

I am also the emotional freak with the stupid feelings...jeez.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Rob,

As you know, you and I are in pretty much the same boat

I used to get hung up on the intiation aspect at times but more and more I've come to realize that tht's not my wife's strong suit.

I'm Ok with that for the most part but it is a real ego booster when she does intiate (maybe 3 times now in the past year)

My issues revolve around frequency, rejection, and time of the week. Friday and Saturday nights are the prefeered for my SO. That gets boring after a while. 

I'm doing what ScarletBegonias outlined to see if i can get a reaction and one more shot at talikung this out but I am afraid that she won't see what's going on. I'm beginning to think she won't have that "aha" moment Scarlet's spouse had


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

LdyVenus said:


> I think I am probably LD and H is HD. We have consistently been 2-3 per week. I only initiate 1-2 per month and I don't think it should be such a big deal. My husband doesn't plan any of the meals but he eats...
> I don't initiate, but I have sex. My philosophy is if you want it come and get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is the way my wife see's it and now we're at maximum 3 times per year....

Don't be surprised if your husband starts acting like a pouty 3 year old because he doesn't feel wanted. I went through that stage.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Rob, I'm right there with you.

I wish I had advice for you. It's a pretty crappy feeling and it doesn't change. The worst part is that nawing feeling inside of you that you know there are plenty of other women out there that don't lose their drive. I mean, just read this forum and see how many women are in our boat.

It's a messed up dynamic that we're all mismatched with LD or in my case No Drive people.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Toffer said:


> I'm doing what ScarletBegonias outlined to see if i can get a reaction and one more shot at talikung this out but I am afraid that she won't see what's going on. I'm beginning to think she won't have that "aha" moment Scarlet's spouse had


I'm interested to see how it turns out.I'm cheering for you and hope it goes the way of her having an "AhHa!" moment.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Rob774 said:


> Thanks man, that's what makes me feel so bad, she is down for about anything... once we get started, but its not like she comes out and says, "Anal tonight" or "Watch me do this striptease first..." i would die if that happens.
> 
> I just wish i felt half the desire towards me, in comparison to what i feel for her.


Rob I hope this helps. I am low drive, and my husband is HD. I get caught up in the daily grind and don't think of sex. When I try, my to "do list" gets in the way and I forget again.

I also don't feel a desire for sex, I am in neutral. When I get started though I became aroused and feel desire and I enjoy sex as much as my husband. I don't feel desire and then become arroused like my husband. I need to warm up sexually before I feel desire. . The fact that I don't pursue sex is only because desire comes after I am aroused.

I need to be aroused with my husbands help. I can't do it myself. I need a man to help me build up the intensity of foreplay to get me going. It does not mean I don't want to have sex. Maybe that is the normal sequence for some LD people. 

If that is accepted, there would be less unhappiness. Your wife accepts your spontaneous desire, why not relax and enjoy the way she has sex? You can't have everything you want. She is engaging in sex as much as you are but it is consistant with her nature. 

If you show dissatisfaction with her the way she naturally has sex, she may shut down. She may perceive that there is nothing she can do to make you happy so she stops trying. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_j


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I'm interested to see how it turns out.I'm cheering for you and hope it goes the way of her having an "AhHa!" moment.


Thanks Scarlet!

As I've said in the past, it seems to get better after we have a chat and discuss at length and then it falls off again. I have followed alot of the advice on here (including calling her out when it goes back to the same old same old) and it helps.....For a while

Guess after so much effort and renewed effort, I'm a bit tired of the dynamic. I really don't look forward to being intimate anymore because it then "raises the bar" again and I realize how much i have missed it and desire to be with her physically. I am at the point where I feel it's better to NOT have sex because it's so infrequent and you know what the saddest part is? I'm starting to get used to it!

Don't get me wrong, I do still miss it but the emptyness seems to be a bit less and less each week.

Also, in case any one wants to know, we've read the books, done the tests and some counseling (been there, seen that, got the commerative T-Shirt)


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Rob I hope this helps. I am low drive, and my husband is HD. I get caught up in the daily grind and don't think of sex. When I try, my to do list gets in the way and I forget again.
> 
> I also don't feel a desire for sex, I am in neutral. When I get started though I became aroused and feel desire and I enjoy sex as much as my husband. I don't feel desire and then become arroused like my husband. I need to warm up sexually before I feel desire. . The fact that I don't pursue sex is only because desire comes after I am aroused.
> 
> ...


Rob - In view of Catherine's post, could you clarify what is your main issue. Is it that she does not initiate? Or is it that she goes through the motions once you initiate? Or both?

My wife is like Catherine, in that she does not think of sex and needs to be aroused. She has done a great job in being open to that and then getting into it. What I need to accept was that she would rarely initiate. Interestingly enough, once I did that, she started to initiate more. Not often, but at least once a month.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Tall Average Guy and Catherine602,

What exactly does that mean? I understand that she may never initiate and as much as I would hate that, I could probably live with it. BUT, in order for her to be receptive to the warming up, the stars have to be aligned, the kids occupied, etc, etc.

It would be nice if she didn't cringe at my touch every time I try...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I believe it goes along with the conception men are supposed to ask women to dance, men are supposed to ask women out on dates and by extension men are supposed to ask women for sex. Ironically, to any male who has ever had his advances rebuked, I believe many women are deathly afraid of rejection. They know if they sit back and wait eventually a man will ask them.
> 
> I think what these women fail to appreciate is men feel every bit as vulnerable when they put themselves out there and ask for that dance or that date or for sex. We risk getting rejected...in reality probably more so than than a woman does asking a man.


Men say they want aggressive women but they marry women who have suppressed their natural sexual desire. They do so to maintain their "marriage material" status. A appear not to want a woman who goes after sex because they enjoy it, unless it benifits them. Women are not expected to enjoy sex too much or they are labeled negatively and treated with disrespect. 

My feeling is - you want a woman who seeks out sex and has enjoyed her sexual desire, pick her out. If your goal is to marry a woman who has turned off her sexual desire, don't expect her to change when she is your wife. 

It confuses me that self control is expected to change with a wedding ring. I think that good girls are forced into an unatural state sexually by cultural norms. Is it fair to the woman that you selected for her ability to control herself to be magically transformed? 

Men are so fickle. Geeez
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think when sex drives don't match, the person with the higher drive is the one who has to initiate. As a woman with HD typically, all he has to do is raise and eyebrow and I'm wet. But there are times when I'm stressed about other stuff and sex hasn't crossed my mind all day long. Normally I see sex in everything! During those times, we've learned, that my arousal has to be initiated hours and hours before bed time. Naughty text messages, suggestive pics, simple touching all help remove my mind from the stress and get me into an aroused state. 

Fellas, if you need your wife to initiate, first make sure she understands this need is so you feel loved (lots of women don't get that at all) and second remind her about sex with naughty tex messages, make her think about what you're going to do to her when you get home. Then order her ass up the stairs and start striping her down on the way.

damn, where's my husband!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Tall Average Guy and Catherine602,
> 
> What exactly does that mean? I understand that she may never initiate and as much as I would hate that, I could probably live with it. BUT, in order for her to be receptive to the warming up, the stars have to be aligned, the kids occupied, etc, etc.
> 
> It would be nice if she didn't cringe at my touch every time I try...


This is something completely different. I am talking about someone like me. I love sex and I crave my husbands touch. But touch is not enough for me to get aroused and feel desire. It is the affection that I need which is separate from sex. 

My husband is different. Affection is enough for him to desire sex. I need more than a hug to get me going. 

I don't cringe at his touch. I crave it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> It confuses me that self control is expected to change with a wedding ring.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think men probably confuse self control with modesty.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Rob774 said:


> In the meantime, its me that's the one that's trying to spice things up. Its me who is buying the toys, buying the outfits, trying new positions, its me who is yearning for it every other day like a sick puppy dog. Even though i've been sleeping with this woman since the mid-90's I can still look forward to sleeping with her like its our first time ( I love her and i love that ass of hers, and she's highly attractive ). But i doubt ... very seriously that she longs for the passion of my embrace. I doubt she looks forward to the moment of our lovemaking, if anything, i think she probably can't wait till its over. When we are making love, she's down for anything, any position, lets me do anal, which is not her cup of tea, so i only go there once every few months, but there there's literally nothing she won't allow. I bring her to climax everytime, and i know she enjoys it. But at the end of the day, i can't help but feeling like she's doing it... just because she thinks its expected of her. I'm HL, she's LL.


Rob,

You are letting your feelings run away with you and this is always a bad idea, especially for men. It looks like your wife has what is called responsive desire. This means that her desire for you activates in response to your desire for her. She may also need a little more time to get prepared than the 2 minutes after you walk in the door for physiological reasons.

So my question to you is what exactly is the problem here? When you were in your late teens early 20's and your drive was at it's peak, did you really sit around and torture yourself emotionally about your partner's passive response? I'll bet not, I know I sure didn't. Sure, we believe we can feel better about ourselves if someone else did this or that or whatever, but it looks to me like you have it pretty good right now.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

ocotillo said:


> I think men probably confuse self control with modesty.


I don't understand the difference as it relates to what men expect. Cam you expand. Thanks.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I don't understand the difference as it relates to what men expect. Cam you expand. Thanks.


I think most men see sexual and body modesty taboos as closely related and I would guess that most women realize that the way they dress can either encourage or discourage unwanted advances from men (?)

A man gets married and (usually) inhibitions against nakedness melt away and they're not the least bit shy around each other. He thinks he's special in the sense that she makes that exception for him and him alone. So he can't wrap his thick head around the exercise of self control when it comes to marital sex.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Trenton,

Do you think you are capable of getting true satisfaction out of it (i.e. something is missing for YOU) or do you think that sex just isn't that important to you?

I ask because I am trying to understand. I am truly impressed by the likes of you and Catherine in that you are admittedly LD but make the effort, are adventurous, etc.

This is where my wife is a complete mystery to me. If she allows herself to get into the mood she does seem to enjoy it and says so. If she lets me use my fingers or tongue she O's pretty easily.

Aside from that she has zero interest in sex. We can't talk about it, she has no fantasies, doesn't even really get worked up about handsome actors, etc. She doesn't masturbate and won't let me use toys on her.

So while her lack of interest in sex with me crushes me, logically I see that it just isn't an issue for her.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

frustr8dhubby said:


> I ask because I am trying to understand. I am truly impressed by the likes of you and Catherine....


Me too. I can't imagine a mature man being dissatisfied or hurt by their attitude.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> My feeling is - you want a woman who seeks out sex and has enjoyed her sexual desire, pick her out. If your goal is to marry a woman who has turned off her sexual desire, don't expect her to change when she is your wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine,

Ah but this is where the "bait and switch" arguments come from. My wife did seem to be comfortable in her sexuality and enjoy sex when we met. I have never made any bones about the fact that sex was important to me. After children she has gone the complete opposite direction to where I think she could care less if she ever has it again. I expected this to some degree when the kids were young but it has never come back.

So then the questions start. Did she just act sexual to get me? Has she just lost her attraction to me? Is there something I have done or am doing that has turned her off?

Of course she says no and that she is happy and content...??


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Trenton said:


> This is tricky. I can never make a post on it without it turning offensive to someone.
> 
> You see, I would say she's pretending to enjoy it and not really orgasm'ing but wants very much for you to be satisfied and knows this is the way to do it. Yet, it's an act and because of this she's not all that excited to do it again.


Normally I would agree and probably wouldn't know if she was faking but she is a "squirter" so it is pretty hard to hide.



Trenton said:


> As to her fantasies...again...I can only speak for myself. My husband would most likely (I hope he doesn't now that he has an account!) tell you that I didn't have any up until a little while ago. Yet, I always had them in my head. I thought they were dirty and was unwilling to explore them.


That's the kicker. I don't know if she doesn't have them or can't open up about them.



Trenton said:


> So there's those 10 reasons that work within our relationship for ME to keep wanting, regardless of orgasm, to get with him.


I don't know of ANY. She gets very mushy when I am playing/laughing with my kids but that doesn't turn into wanting to get close to me.



Trenton said:


> *Now here are the things that make me cringe:*
> 
> 4. Resentment. He's not perfect (I'm not perfect) but those resentments if they're not resolved...such as him choosing his job over our family...they work against connection, attraction and equity in our relationship.


This one somewhat worries but honestly the only real resentment I have building is the lack of sex/intimacy.



Trenton said:


> Have you paid attention to your wife and what makes her tick?


I try. She is definitely an acts of service love language.



Trenton said:


> When is she most happy?


When she is on FaceBook..  (No, no men, etc, her account is open to me and no red flags).



Trenton said:


> Do you regularly surprise her, play healthily within the relationship?


Not entirely sure I get what you are asking here. I used to randomly bring home flowers/etc but that has slowed down a lot for financial reasons. I do try to play with her (a sexy text now and then, etc) but she doesn't play along well. I usually just get an LOL or something as flippant back.



Trenton said:


> Do you ever try new things and see how her body responds (slip a finger into her butthole while you're doing 69)?


Sometimes. It is actually funny you ask because I was using my hand on her this morning and was playing a little back there. When she is writhing around she doesn't seem to mind but doesn't exactly jump up and down either. If I try it when she is more still she tells me no.



Trenton said:


> Are you honest with her in regards to your desires?


Yes.



Trenton said:


> Is her stress level within your family OK and does she feel appreciated?


That is a tough one to answer. She is a control freak so sometimes she gets worked up over small things but I don't think her overall stress level is high. I believe she knows that I appreciate what she does but she does feel unappreciated by the kids (especially our 13 year old).



Trenton said:


> Have you tried to get creative with how to get her to open up (have her write her thoughts in a journal and read them and address them, ask her then to write her fantasies down and read them and address them)?


Yes and this is where I do get a little resentful. She doesn't even like to have the discussion.



Trenton said:


> Does she think you want to know her fantasies because you care about the or because you want to get off more?


That is a fair question that I hadn't really considered. I do want to know because I care and I want her to enjoy sex. But, she thinks I am some freak because I like sex so much so she may feel I am just trying to get off on it...



Trenton said:


> How much resentment is there between you and her?


I don't know on her side. She claims none, again that she is happy/content. Mine has really been growing the last two years because of this issue and because I almost strayed. Some women showed an interest in me. And it really kind of pissed me off because my honor and integrity are one of the few things I have.



Trenton said:


> I've written this before...
> I think many women in the beginning of a relationship are NOT trying to pull the bait and switch. They are excited, their hormones and good neurons are firing off and they WANT their man desperately.
> 
> Then life happens. Women respond very differently than men to life stresses. It's very hard to keep balance, it's very easy to drift apart and live in denial rather than reach out for satisfaction, etc.
> ...


I understand that and being the person that she is, I don't think she willingly pulled a "bait and switch" either.

I will say. One of the things that drives me nuts about her (and it is learned behavior from her mother) is that they like to make everything better than it is. (They rugsweep a lot also). I'm sure if you met her and asked her about me she would make it sound like I was God's gift to husbands. But, I know that isn't true. I can be very difficult to deal with because of esteem and depression issues.

I think I am a good husband and father but am by NO means perfect!


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Yeah, the squirter thing is pretty awesome! 

I was for a while sticking notes in her car and silly stuff like that but she didn't seem to respond much to those either. Maybe I will think of something different. (I'm not a great out of the box thinker, I am much more logical/fact based).

Well, the rug sweeping in her family is hard to even know when something is wrong because on the surface everything is wonderful..  She has a sister who is millions in debt due to a failed business and she doesn't even tell their mother.

I have been fighting insecurity since my high school days. No clue how to fix it. Been to therapy, you name. I am on Zoloft for the depression and it helps level me out but I have been really down lately for a multitude of reasons. I sometimes wonder if it is the so-called "Mid-Life Crisis". I don't have any desire to run out and find me some young hottie or buy a sports car but I am doing a lot of questioning of my path (career, marriage, etc).


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## devastated3343 (May 16, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> My feeling is - you want a woman who seeks out sex and has enjoyed her sexual desire, pick her out. If your goal is to marry a woman who has turned off her sexual desire, don't expect her to change when she is your wife.





Catherine602 said:


> It confuses me that self control is expected to change with a wedding ring. I think that good girls are forced into an unatural state sexually by cultural norms. Is it fair to the woman that you selected for her ability to control herself to be magically transformed?


As a man (technically, I am male) I can't relate to what you're writing here. I've never really considered 'picking out' a particular kind of woman, but regardless it sounds like you're arguing men want a kind of woman who is one way while they are dating and another after marriage. I think the opposite. Men want the same thing, all the time. They (we) can't understand a woman who has a high sex drive for the first few years and then it drops. They don't want woman to change, they want them to stay exactly the same. 

I can't say I've ever been in a relationship and thought, I'm glad she isn't too sexually aggressive, I don't want her asking me for sex and night and offering me blowjobs. But once we're married I will demand she be that person that I have invented in my mind. 

I think guys just want someone who has about the same energy level they have, which makes them happy, and they don't want that to change.

Basically, you want your lady to want sex as much as you do, but you don't want her sleeping with your friend.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Your insecurity tells me you're sensitive despite your logic and reasoning. Use this sensitivity to reach out rather than hold it all in and have some really sincere convo's with your wife. The stuff you write here...spew it out to her every night for a few minutes until she responds. If she gets angry reassure her. If she gets sad comfort her. If she acts as if you're invisible tell her that's not good enough. If she allows herself to b vulnerable in return and shares with you embrace her.


So while this may work with a woman like Trenton, be aware that it is actually a turn-off for some women. These women want a man to be able to discuss this when the issue is raised, but don't want a man who raised them very often himself. If you have done this in the past, consider how she has reacted. 

Finally, I suggest that you look at the thermostat thread on this forum and see if you are smothering her. It may be that your need for affection is too much for her and turning her off. It is hard to tell, but some of your posts hint at it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Trenton said:


> This is tricky. I can never make a post on it without it turning offensive to someone.
> 
> You see, I would say she's pretending to enjoy it and not really orgasm'ing but wants very much for you to be satisfied and knows this is the way to do it. Yet, it's an act and because of this she's not all that excited to do it again.
> 
> ...


-------------
T,
The similarities between our marriages are just amazing.


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## Rob774 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thank you all for your replies. 

Here's the update. We had a talk about it, i didn't want to be bothered, she understood why knowing we've had this dance dozens of times over the years (married '99)

She confessed never to be really into sex. She enjoys sex, she enjoys my technique, but she can go without it. She knows i have this inner notion that she was a freak before she met me, but acknowledges that even before me, she had sex with guys, because it was expected of her. Once again, she not denying enjoying it. But i guess she felt like, what a lot of ladies feel like, if you want to have any close relationship with the "average" guy, at some point, you have to be intimate with them on that level.

She did acknowledge there are times she wants it, those being the few times she initiates, but for the most part, she really doesn't have the desire. She also said, her current weight issue isn't helping. She's about 30lbs over what she wants to be. I love her curvy body, but after 3 kids, she's a bit "more curvy" than what she personally wants to be. I told her i love her no matter what, so we'll see what happens.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Rob774 said:


> But i guess she felt like, what a lot of ladies feel like, if you want to have any close relationship with the "average" guy, at some point, you have to be intimate with them on that level.


Have you asked her if these means she no longer wants a close relationship with you?


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## joelmacdad (Jul 26, 2010)

Trenton said:


> This is tricky. I can never make a post on it without it turning offensive to someone.
> 
> You see, I would say she's pretending to enjoy it and not really orgasm'ing but wants very much for you to be satisfied and knows this is the way to do it. Yet, it's an act and because of this she's not all that excited to do it again.
> 
> ...


Trenton, I honestly think this post should be a sticky somewhere on TAM. I have just learned a significant amount about my wife because of it. Thank you!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

frustr8dhubby said:


> Catherine,
> 
> Ah but this is where the "bait and switch" arguments come from. My wife did seem to be comfortable in her sexuality and enjoy sex when we met. I have never made any bones about the fact that sex was important to me. After children she has gone the complete opposite direction to where I think she could care less if she ever has it again. I expected this to some degree when the kids were young but it has never come back.
> 
> ...


From what I have observed and experienced in my life, The expression of female sexuality is expected to be in reference to what men want, not neccessarily what women want. Woman conform and like to please and satify men. 

My feeling is that men have been socialized to expect sex in reference to what they need. They need a modest women who has sex with them frequently. 

Women conform, if she wants to marry she has a low number of sexual partners, and has sexual in the way that pleases her potential mate. 

There are certain things that are expected - enthusiam, forget the modesty and self-control that brought her to this point, enjoy with enthusiasm PIV, hj, bj, varoius positions and anal if that happens to be what the man wants. She conforms. She does what is expected, meets his criteria. 

What about the bait and switch. I really don't think there is any attempt to decieve. I think women conform and please because that is what is expected. 

I discovered after marriage and living with my husband that he wasnt really as romantic, conciencencious, attentive as he seemed. After I was secured, he engaged in all of the activities that he put on hold while he was trying to land me. 

I didn't expect him to spend so much time on fixing up his car or playing sports, watching sports, hanging out with his buddies, playing cards and sleeping. 

We spent less time alone when we got married than we did before marriage. I was immature so instead of expressing verbally what i felt, I started ignoring him and doing what i wanted. 

That included not having sex every time he could fit me into his schedule. My husband was and still is more aware and mature than me so, he figured out what was wrong and brought up my unhappiness. 

He didn't put it in terms of sex although that's what got his attention. So both people revert back to who and what they were before the courtship. 

When men talk about bait and switch they seem not to examine what aspects of the relationship they switched. 

I don't know if this helps. Maybe being aware of the dynamic. Also, you can to make sure that dispite our cultural expectation that women conform, yield and please men, that you are aware that this is not sustainable over the long run. 

Make sure to balance what you want and what she wants. First you have to get to know what she wants. She may not be used to asking for what she wants. If you are spending hours playing video games, think about what you are doing. 

Try to stay as close to the man you were during courtship, be fearless and have a plan. That's what made her fall in love.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

devastated3343 said:


> As a man (technically, I am male) I can't relate to what you're writing here. I've never really considered 'picking out' a particular kind of woman, but regardless it sounds like you're arguing men want a kind of woman who is one way while they are dating and another after marriage. I think the opposite. Men want the same thing, all the time. They (we) can't understand a woman who has a high sex drive for the first few years and then it drops. They don't want woman to change, they want them to stay exactly the same.
> 
> I can't say I've ever been in a relationship and thought, I'm glad she isn't too sexually aggressive, I don't want her asking me for sex and night and offering me blowjobs. But once we're married I will demand she be that person that I have invented in my mind.
> 
> ...


I see what you mean. It seems like she is a completely different person after marriage than before. I'd like to ask before your wife met you, how much experience did she have? Was she experienced in sexually pleasing a man with hj and bj? 

I think the person she appeared to be before she met you is a better gauge of what she is really like. Everyone is on their best behavior to get a commitment. 

I don't think there an intention to defraud. In the heat of the honeymoon phase, it really does seem as if you can be a different person. 

A woman who loses 50 lbs to conform to her mates desire for a thin version of her, is likely to gain back that weight and more once the honeymoon is over. 

It's the person you are before the honeymoon period that is closer to the real. 

You have to look at the big picture, background, what she was like before meeting you, religieous teachings, how affectionate and loving her household was. 

If used only one criteria, great sex with you, to assess such an important complex behavior, that may be why you are surprised by the change. She may have defaulted back to her set point.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

Ummmm...did I write this?? This describes us exactly and it really used to bother me until I read this:

Do You Understand Female Sexual Desire? | Psychology Today

So my conclusion is that it is nothing personal. My wife loves me, is hot for me, we have a great relationship, it is just that she gets preoccupied with life and is not as prone to think about sex like I do. And she enjoys sex. Last night her orgasm seemed to go on forever! We spend a week at a romantic resort for anniversary every year and she becomes very sexual. But the difference is she is totally relaxed and we were focusing on each other for an entire week. We will have sex sometimes twice a day and she will initiate it. 

Here's the thing: I don't see it as obligatory sex, even when she says, "I'm just too tired so you go ahead." I see it as a woman who loves me so much that she will see to my sexual desires even if she does not feel like. According to the article, women with responsive desire can start sex in neutral only to get into gear once they get started. My wife has learned that she can start sex not felling like it at all but end with a massive orgasm and really enjoying it.


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## kcait (Jan 31, 2013)

I am late to the party and haven't read all the comments but maybe I can offer something? 
I have always been desired and pursued by my husband. I have been extremely lucky this way. And I have taken FULL advantage. We have been married 15 years and I have only initiated a dozen or so times. Until recently, I thought that was fine. It worked for us. I NEVER ever turn him down. I will do whatever he wants. I ask for what I want. We have great sex...amazing actually. Im great in bed (at least I think I am). He's amazing in bed. It is ALL GOOD. 

Sounds ridiculous but until recently I had NEVER thought of initiating before. He had not suggested it and I guess I didnt think I ever needed to. Also, the very act of him pursuing me was our foreplay. It turns me on to feel desired. I LIKE knowing I hold the key to his satisfaction. I think he LIKES rubbing up on me and telling me he wants me...kissing my neck..etc. I guess the adage, "If it aint broke, dont fix it" applied to us and our 15 year sex life. UNTIL the last time I DID try to initiate and he turned me down. 
***SCREECH***
What? 
Immediately, I began thinking of all the reasons why this could happen. Does he not find me attractive? Is he seeing someone else? Does he have a porn problem? And then I found myself getting pretty childish and angry at the rejection. I had gotten spoiled. Simply put, I was used to getting what I want and he was used to obliging not only my love and need for being desired but my every whim in bed as well. Well, after thinking about it, I saw how unbalanced our sexual relationship was. It really wasnt fair for me to put all the responsibility on him to keep our sex life thriving. It also gave me the upper hand in that I didnt need to be vulnerable and risk rejection but I got all the benefits of his sweet lips all over me. 
So I have changed my ways! This man, that really REALLY loves me and has vowed only to ever sleep with me for the rest of his life, deserves a woman that shows him she wants him as much as he wants her. It actually took a little rejection from him (he was truly tired that night) for me to see it but I'll bet if you tell your wife that while you appreciate that she doesnt reject you and is willing to try new and fun things in bed..you just want to feel what she feels when you pursue her. Sorry for the generalization Im about to make but most if not ALL women love to be the object of desire. That's why we dress up and wear makeup and cleavage enhancing bras and high heels and tight jeans. Its for the attention we get from our spouses and dare I admit, other men as well. I want to feel beautiful and wanted and desired. It only stands to reason that men want to be wanted and desired as well. It may come in a different package (tee hee I said "package") but men have the same need to be loved on and touched and told how amazing they are. I think your wife might just need to know that you equate being led to the bedroom and laid good and well by her as her affirming her love for you. 
But I could be way off and this could be redundant. Rabbit trail anyone?


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