# Dealing With Guilt About Wanting to End It



## CarrieAnn

I've been reading these boards for months. I have composed and recomposed a post in my head to ask for help. I have no clue where to start without making this too long. So here's the condensed version.

We have 3 kids, 10, 12, and 14. We have been together 20 years, married 18. Over the last 9 years, I have had 3 emotional affairs. The first and third were mutual. The middle one was a one-sided obsession I had with someone. After the first EA, I was determined to figure out what went wrong in my marriage to cause it. There are just so many things. He's a good man, great provider. He is also insecure and passive aggressive. He has never been physically abusive to me, but he has done some pretty bad things out of anger (again, not physically abusive toward me). From an outsider's perspective, we have the perfect life. I'm a stay-at-home mom. I have been out of the workforce since 2003.

Basically, I'm done with us. I have lost my love for him. Sex is what I would call "pity sex." I want it over with as quickly as possible, no touching, no kissing. I hide from him and avoid any chances to be alone. When the in-laws say they'll take the kids for a period of time, I freak out over having to be alone with him. I sleep on the edge of the bed, practically falling out because he keeps moving closer.

My problem is how to tell him these things. He knows things are not good with us. We have rehashed the issues over and over for 8 years. We went to counseling for 5 months many years ago and it got us nowhere. We manage to keep ourselves so busy with life and kids that the years just seem to tick by. A few months ago, he said, "If we didn't have kids, I'd still want to be with you, but I don't think you'd want to be with me."

We are in our late 40s, and I feel like my chance to find love again is quickly slipping away. How many more EAs will I have while we wait for the kids to be grown? My eyes are wide open when I meet new men. I am emotionally available and legally unavailable. I feel so guilty for destroying our family. We don't fight, we run a smooth household, the kids are fun and active. But WE do not have a relationship outside of "parenting partners." I need more and I think he deserves better than me.

I feel so guilty for denying our kids a family. How do I get over that feeling? Will I ever get over it?


*Update 6/17/11: If you are going to comment on this post, please read my follow on posts in this thread first. When I wrote this, I had not been to counseling yet and was in SERIOUS denial about the state of my marriage. Thank you.*


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

just tell him.
believe me, that will be the nicest most thoughtful thing you could do for him. much better he know now from you telling him that him finding out about the EA's or if you end up in a PA. 
if you really want out no question, then do the right thing by him and your kids and let him out now.


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## CarrieAnn

Agree. I just wish I knew HOW to do this. I have no income. I don't want the kids to suffer. In my perfect world, we leave the kids here in the house and WE move in and out. He would probably agree to that as well. We have always put the kids first.


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## Justnotsure

CarrieAnn said:


> Agree. I just wish I knew HOW to do this. I have no income. I don't want the kids to suffer. In my perfect world, we leave the kids here in the house and WE move in and out. He would probably agree to that as well. We have always put the kids first.


Rumor has it, the 1st step is the hardest and I'm not one to talk bc I'm dreading the same conversation you are! How do we break their hearts/dreams? Your story sounds just like mine....I guess that we aren't abnormal, which is encouraging. Mine knows that things aren't good and that it's bc of me.....well actually it takes 2, so there's a mutual blame...My biggest question is do I want to fix this bc I guarantee you, it will have to be me that does or things will just stay the way they are...

I've always been the one to put the marriage/relationship back on track- I'd book the hotel for a weekend away, put cutesy notes in his vehicle, little notes in his lunch, set his clothes out for work, meet him at the door w an ice cold beer in the summer months...and for what? I work, so it's not like I need him for an income, I actually feel the opposite in that respect bc when I lost my great paying job it was like his whole world tipped not mine....I'm very employable and have proven that! I'm back to work, blah, blah...

I guess at the end of the day, when we're in our 60's is he the person I want to be w? For me, I have to get to that place where I could envision him w someone else and then I'll know it's over and move on....am I 100% there? Not quite and that's why I believe there's still hope for my situation....ask yourself that question about him being w someone else, someone else being w your kids....and if the answer is yes, then have that convo...

Good luck and please know you aren't alone!!!!


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## Sanity

CarrieAnn said:


> Agree. I just wish I knew HOW to do this. I have no income. I don't want the kids to suffer. In my perfect world, we leave the kids here in the house and WE move in and out. He would probably agree to that as well. We have always put the kids first.


This is going to sound harsh but if the man is solely working to pay the bills HE deserves better than what you are giving him. If you have no income I recommend that you start looking for a job and/or get some training to re-enter the workforce. If you truly want to "explore" and find love again then be prepared to fend for yourself while making sure the kids needs are met. Its not fair to your husband for him to provide for the family and have a wife who does not value and love him.


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## HoopsFan

CarrieAnn said:


> But WE do not have a relationship outside of "parenting partners." I need more and I think he deserves better than me.


You don't have a partnership relationship because YOU have purposefully sabotaged any real chance in achieving that.

Your husband has been willing to have that relationship with you and be intimate with you, but you've turned a cold shoulder to him. Marriagbuilders.com talks about love buckets and what we do to fill up the love buckets of our partners. Well you're husbands love bucket has been empty for years now and everytime he tries to fill yours up, you dump it out. You won't love him and you won't let him love you. So don't try to blame this on your husband. The issue is you've decided you don't love him anymore, you deserve better, and yet you stay because it's easier to do nothing, your kids, and because you don't have income.

He's working with incomplete information and you've been mentally torturing him. He's probably posting on another website asking, "I try to be a good husband and father, but my wife won't be affectionate and intimate with me. What can I do?" Let him know the truth, that there's no chance you'll ever love him like he wants, that you haven't loved him for years, that you would have left him years ago if it weren't for comfort, finances, and the kids.... and let him participate in this process of whether the two of you should work at this together or seek a separation. You might hurt him for a while with the hard truth, but don't lie to yourself... the punishment you're putting him through now has been lasting a LONG time. This marriage is already dead, you might as well make it official.


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## Runs like Dog

You're way beyond worrying about where to ascribe blame. Some of the people here will scold you for what you've done. I say it's unimportant. Move on and get it over with. Tell him you're through and that's that. He can either accept that or not. Just get the process started and settle your accounts. It's not the end of the world, just this marriage.


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## MEM2020

Hoops,
Why did you post that her husband does not know what is happening? Sounds like she has been talking to him without progress for 8 years. 

I do agree that she needs to be "fair". And fair means that she either fights a lot harder to "fix" the marriage or she gets a job and quickly creates a situation where she can be financially viable when they divorce. It is not fair to do these EA's hoping they will turn into something real so she can dump him and not be broke. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My problem is how to tell him these things. He knows things are not good with us. We have rehashed the issues over and over for 8 years. We went to counseling for 5 months many years ago and it got us nowhere. We manage to keep ourselves so busy with life and kids that the years just seem to tick by. A few months ago, he said, "If we didn't have kids, I'd still want to be with you, but I don't think you'd want to be with me."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>










HoopsFan said:


> You don't have a partnership relationship because YOU have purposefully sabotaged any real chance in achieving that.
> 
> Your husband has been willing to have that relationship with you and be intimate with you, but you've turned a cold shoulder to him. Marriagbuilders.com talks about love buckets and what we do to fill up the love buckets of our partners. Well you're husbands love bucket has been empty for years now and everytime he tries to fill yours up, you dump it out. You won't love him and you won't let him love you. So don't try to blame this on your husband. The issue is you've decided you don't love him anymore, you deserve better, and yet you stay because it's easier to do nothing, your kids, and because you don't have income.
> 
> He's working with incomplete information and you've been mentally torturing him. He's probably posting on another website asking, "I try to be a good husband and father, but my wife won't be affectionate and intimate with me. What can I do?" Let him know the truth, that there's no chance you'll ever love him like he wants, that you haven't loved him for years, that you would have left him years ago if it weren't for comfort, finances, and the kids.... and let him participate in this process of whether the two of you should work at this together or seek a separation. You might hurt him for a while with the hard truth, but don't lie to yourself... the punishment you're putting him through now has been lasting a LONG time. This marriage is already dead, you might as well make it official.


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## CarrieAnn

Yeah, we are way beyond the blame stage at this point. I did not just stop loving him out of the blue. HE had a part in that. A big part. So when he's whining on some other board about his wife being distant, I hope he will remember the part he played in my losing my love for him.

Anyway...

We did the Marriage Builders emotional questionnaires 8 years ago. Turns out he can't be affectionate with out sex, and I can't have sex without affection. You can't POJA sex. You just can't. I MUST feel a connection for it to be meaningful. Sure, I can go through the motions, and even have orgasms, but there is no loving touching, no desire. Sex out of obligation is soul crushing. I've been doing it for so long now, I've forgotten what loving sex is like.

I wish I knew just what he could "fix" to make me love him again. It's not like I can ask him to stop drinking or looking at porn or flirting with other women and all will be well. He doesn't do those things. Feelings are just not so clear cut. We have BOTH stayed in this marriage for the kids. 

The guilt of actually ENDING it is what is killing me. I know I need to move on so HE can have a better life as well as me. I stated that up front. I'm not usurping his generosity. This is our family life that we have chosen. The fact that I have lost my love for him just kills me and I really don't know if I can get it back.


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## 2nd_t!me iz_best

CarrieAnn said:


> Agree. I just wish I knew HOW to do this. I have no income. I don't want the kids to suffer.


this sounds pretty selfish and self centered. 
give him the old stand-by...
"its me, not you" speech,
or just tell him the truth.


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## mentallydrained

For what it's worth, you are not alone in these types of emotions/feelings. I share identical loss of connection and I completely understand when you refer to guilt and not wanting to cause hurt. 

Disconnecting and just growing obviously can be painful when not on the same road as spouse.


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## CarrieAnn

Thanks for the feedback from those of you who actually read my full posts and recognize what a difficult position I am in. It is scary to think of breaking up a family. 

I finally broke the ice briefly last night by mentioning my discouragement that nothing has changed. Then this morning as he was leaving for work, we talked for about 10 minutes about rehashing the same issues year after year. It all comes down to sex. I can't have a normal sexual relationship with him because I don't love him romantically anymore. I respect and appreciate all that he does for us. He said he thinks I'm trying to get him to dump me so I wouldn't be to blame. I said I thought we were beyond blame and would dump each other. We both agreed that we love our family and hate to mess that up.

So the idea is out there, but still unresolved. We have had this exact discussion before (8, yes 8 years ago!) and again about a year and a half ago. I mentioned on another thread that the EAs were years apart from each other (and that the 2nd one was not really an EA, but a crush I had on someone who didn't even know it). During the time I was NOT emotionally involved, nothing changed in our marriage.

I know that I am seeking something/someone else and it is not fair to him. I acknowledged that here in my first post. But the blame for our problems is NOT all mine. He played a part in it too (long before the EAs). I just can't shake the guilt at losing the family dream after 20 years.


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## Boogsie

CarrieAnn said:


> We did the Marriage Builders emotional questionnaires 8 years ago. Turns out he can't be affectionate with out sex, and I can't have sex without affection.


Can't? I call BS. You both can learn to. What my wife needs to feel loved I learned how to give her. It means nothing to me and was very alien to me, but I learned to do it and I did it with enthusiasm. I did it out of love. She does not respond in kind. When I have finally given up all hope of making it work, I WILL file for divorce and I'm sure it will come as a surprise to her.

She doesn't work. She stays at home. I'm sure people will criticize me for leaving her with no income when she appears to be a good wife. But there is no physical side to our relationship right now and I'm no longer willing to tolerate it.


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## Catherine602

Carrie Can your consider that your guilt is misplaced? Actually your guilt should be that you had the emotional affairs. You can not blame him for that, that was all you. Problems in a marriage can't be solved by going outside of the marriage as you know. EA and PA hurt and humiliate a spouse and no matter what they have done they don't deserve that.

If you put the guilt where it should be, you may be able to reach a resolution to end your marriage.

As you said, he deserves a chance to find someone who will love him just as he is and you do as well. To risk causing pain, while denying him the opportunity for a new relationship should cause guilt actually. If you stay in the marriage who is to say that you will not have more EA's or even PA's, it may come to that. That alone is reason enough to end the marriage if there is no hope. 

Do you hesitate to start the proceedings because you want to avoid guilt? You would be more guilty to continue in the marriage and risk hurting him. There is no reason you should not file, you are the one who is unhappy, he seems able to tolerate the status quo so why should he file with you. 

You can go on like this endlessly. It would be better for your children to see happy parents in 2nd relationships than to live in an unhappy home with a bad model of a marriage.


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## CarrieAnn

I think my guilt is over messing up the family by really ending it when he is OK with maintaining status quo for the kids. I've been here 8 additional years "for the kids" after telling him I wanted out (and I did leave for several weeks in 2003). Being here for the kids it is wearing me out. I disappoint him daily by not being a real wife. Sure I feel guilty about the EAs. Tremendously guilty because they kept me from being here emotionally. But even during the non EA years, I was not here emotionally.


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## CarrieAnn

Oh, and to clarify, by "non EA years" I mean the years between the first and second one, not the first 10 years we were married.


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## miss smiley

I am so happy to come across this thread because it describes almost perfectly where I am. I've felt disconnected for years, have had sex out of obligation and finally, just the other day - I told my H that I just couldn't do it anymore. It makes me want to cry when I do and I feel like I'm losing myself. We got interrupted in our talk by our daughter, but I know we need to continue the discussion. I don't want to live in a sexless marriage - what's the point of fooling the kids when I'm just thinking, 10 more years and the kids should be fine dealing with a divorce.... How are you coping with this problem. What has the outcome been? Has anyone succeeded in reconnecting? Am I making a big mistake discontinuing the pity sex? I wish it wasn't just me who has to initiate everything. I feel like I am the one to destroy the family, but I just can't have sex without emotions anymore.


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## CarrieAnn

Hi Miss Smiley. Sorry to hear you are going through it too.

At this point, I have FINALLY started individual counseling again (went for awhile 8 years ago). I am trying to figure out why I am not emotionally present in my marriage. Well, I know why, but I am hoping get help dealing with my guilt.

After telling the counselor the story of what lead up to my disconnect from the marriage, she said she thinks HE needs intense psychotherapy to deal with his issues. She doesn't think marriage counseling will help us until he does that. I'm pretty sure he will NEVER do that. It was nice to have a little validation of my feelings though. I have put up with a lot over the years.

So, I've only just started counseling (second appointment will be Monday). I'm hoping she will help me decide what to do by sorting out my feelings and needs. I can't keep living like this just waiting for the kids to be grown (at which time I will be in my mid 50s).


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## miss smiley

Hi CarrieAnn:
Thank you for your reply.
I was just looking into counseling too. I just have to figure out how insurance will cover things.
Thanks for sharing what your counselor said. I hope to also find out why I'm so disconnected in my marriage. I personally think it's my husband's inability to connect with anyone outside of jokes and small talk. 
I should have just listened to myself before the wedding...but that's the past. I know what you mean about waiting for the kids to be grown. I too will be in my 50's by then. 
Your statement about having sex without any emotion being soul crushing is exactly how I feel. Makes me want to cry everytime I think it. My husband is really a good guy, he deserves to be with someone who loves him wholeheartedly, and I desperately crave to feel that way. I've been wishing it for so many years but I can't get my heart to follow what my head wants. 
May I ask why counseling didn't help you 8 years ago? My husband doesn't really believe in MC, so I don't know if we will ever go. At this pt, I feel numb. I almost wish he would fall in love with someone else so he can tell the difference between real love and what we have. I would be relieved to not have the responsibility of our future in my hands. I'm so confused...
I hope you will keep me posted on your progress. Time just keeps going by and I keep thinking of that saying "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results". Well, it's something like that anyways.


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## CarrieAnn

The last part of your post reminded me of a song that just totally resonates with me. It is by K's Choice and is called "Another Year" YouTube - K's Choice Another Year - Live Amsterdam Holland 2001

Counseling didn't help before because the problems were way bigger than our not being happy (I haven't really openly posted about that here, and probably won't). Neither of us were ready to admit that. Plus, the counselor was sort of a doofus. We were able to get a lot of the big issues out in the open though, but unable to resolve them. Over the last 8 years, nothing changed and I have grown more and more distant.

I really think I am still here out of obligation, fear and guilt. We have such a great family life. I'm not sure what the kids have picked up on. We don't fight and we aren't mean or catty with each other, but there is no affection. I don't want them to think that this is normal for marriage. There are some serious issues that caused my disconnect so many years ago, and not fixing them just made it worse over time. The emotional affairs were a symptom, not a cause. The counselor asked me what is different about those men vs. my husband and the simple answer is confidence. They were confident and optimistic men. My husband is kind and caring, but he has very low self esteem and is passive aggressive (he cannot appropriately express his anger). I am tired of pacifying him.

When I am not with him, I imagine that we are great. Then we are together, and I realize we are not. It is all about admitting that we are broken, recognizing we might not be fixable, and moving on/accepting it. This is not the future I imagined. THAT is the source of my guilt. I so wanted the perfect family for my kids.


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## CarrieAnn

Here are the lyrics for the song:

I wish you could adore
The way you did before
Now you're living through another year

Oh, the light you were
Will soon become a blur
As you're living through another year

Oh, what a waste of time it is
To indulge inside of bliss
Getting ready for another year like this

Another year to lie
Another year goes by

You're not sick, so you can't heal
But I wonder do you feel
The need to cry: 'I'm out of here'

Oh, your goal is safe
But is it all you crave
As you're living through another year

Oh, what a waste of time it is
To indulge inside of bliss
Getting ready for another year like this

Another year to lie
Another year goes by

Is it me who cannot see
The face of mediocrity
I try to smile you see
Your lightness darkens me

Filter all of your emotions.
Fake you're never low
Or face the one you fear
You're living through another year

Another year to lie
Another year goes by


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## ladybug828

CarrieAnn, I have to say this sounds exactly like my marriage to the T, minus the affairs though at least on my part. I mean WOW your H sounds just like mine and everything you do to try and be away from him, the sleeping on the edge of the bed, OMG! Sounds just like everything here. I know that my H had internet flings with past GF's but not sure if anything is going on now.


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## rachelgreen

oh my, I thought I was the only one with the alienation problem. This story about having sex out of whatever but desire, and guilt afterwards, both about not feeling anything toward the husband, and not being brave enough to end this, is exactly how my marriage has been lately. I also think that my H is somewhat obsessed with sex: he actually identifies marriage with sex, and if we don't have sex for 2-3 days, he starts talking about the marriage not 'working out', even if everything else is fine. I have heard this so often that lately I am consciously trying to HAVE sex with him regardless of whether I want it or not, just to stop him from being moody. The result is that the marriage has turned into a nightmare for me: I feel guilty that I do not want sex daily, I feel guilty after having the sex I did not want to have, but had to keep my H happy, and I feel guilty that I am still in this humiliating relationship, and I feel guilty that I want to end it but don't due to the complete financial dependence on the H. that I had to accept to enter the marriage. Gosh, this is complicated.


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## CarrieAnn

rachelgreen said:


> Gosh, this is complicated.


It really is. I'm sorry to hear you are going through it too. There are so many of us. These boards have been a real help to me, even though I don't post much. I read a lot.

Last week when I went to my first counseling session, I told her all the things (well, many of them, not all) that led to my loss of love for him and she told me he needs counseling. His attitudes toward sex are really messed up and she wonders about his early experiences and how/when he learned about sex. I don't know those things. He comes from an unaffectionate family with an emotionally distant dad and alcoholic mom.

Today, after some small talk, she came right out and said that after our session last week, it was clear to her that I was being abused. I completely agree. That really hurts, but it had to be discussed. She did not even beat around the bush starting discussions about my finances and how to tell him. She offered to do it with her and us in her office together to provide a safe venue. I haven't decided yet about that. She made it very clear that I should not continue to have sex with him until he gets help. It is harming me psychologically.

So today, I spent a lot of time reading about abuse and the many forms it takes. From the outside, we look perfect. He is a friendly, nice guy and NOBODY would guess this about us. He has never laid a hand on me in anger. He does not berate me. But he has made sexual demands and insisted on things that I did not want to do. Even after counseling to work that out, he has continued to do it to the point that I am no longer in love with him. He disrespected me over and over and I became resentful. Sex was all about him, not about a loving relationship. I'm just sorry that I let it continue for EIGHT more years. I feel angry that I have lost those years because I was too afraid to deal with this situation.

So getting back to my original post, the guilt. It sucks. But moving forward, regardless of what happens to my marriage, we are going to work on WHY I let this abuse continue so that I can have a normal relationship in the future. She said these patterns can be very difficult to break, so I have a long journey ahead of me. 

Now I just have to work out a plan to tell him all this and move forward. That's the scary part.

If you are having sex out of obligation, take steps to fix it now. Don't wait.


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## rachelgreen

CarrieAnn,
I am so sorry to know you were being abused by your H. ! I agree that if sexual demands of a partner are outside of the other partner's comfort zone, the sexual life turns into full-time abuse. I wish you all the luck in breaking the patterns, and I am sure you can rediscover your true needs and find a partner who can satisfy them.
My situation is different, though. My husband does not demand anything beyond what is normal to me, I can not say anything bad about sex with him. The real 'root' of the problems in our marriage lies outside bedroom, my lack of desire is triggered by emotional problems in our relationship and this continuous pushing: oh, we haven't had sex for two days, you don't love me any more, we failed. I am not sure if I am ready to describe the whole thing to anyone or not yet...


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## ladybug828

I agree with you on the emotional part. It's not that I don't love my husband it's just we don't have an emotional connection. At first i thought it was me, so i seeked out a therapist and after about 6 months of doing this i told my H that I was going. His response was shock. and since then we have gone together and seperate but still after a year of this there still is no emotional connection. I think his biggest issue is there are a lot of issues of his own about his misconception of what woman want. He assumes that just because you give him a hug or a peck on the cheek he is getting bootie. I know that men are wired different but there are some who really know how to handle a woman, and in a good way. Why can't life and marriages be like the ones in movies? Just kidding I know that is really not reality. I hope that all of you really do get through what you are going through. I know I have been working on this for over a year, and trust me I don't want another divorce! Thing is how do we get them (the men) to understand the simple things we need?


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## CarrieAnn

ladybug828 said:


> Thing is how do we get them (the men) to understand the simple things we need?


It's hard when they won't listen. My husband would play along for a little while, but quickly revert to meeting his own needs without regard to mine.


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## CarrieAnn

Clarification: He would quickly revert to trying to make his needs be my wants.


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## Jellybeans

CarrieAnn said:


> My problem is how to tell him these things.


Tell him quickly and soon and rip it off like a band-aid. DO NOT EVER string someone along who loves you. It is seriously the most f-cked up thing you could ever do to someone.

If you are done, tell him and file for divorce. YOU should be the one to leave though since you are the one who wants out.


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## CarrieAnn

Jellybeans said:


> Tell him quickly and soon and rip it off like a band-aid. DO NOT EVER string someone along who loves you. It is seriously the most f-cked up thing you could ever do to someone.
> 
> If you are done, tell him and file for divorce. YOU should be the one to leave though since you are the one who wants out.


Jellybeans, I think you missed some of my follow up posts where I provided a little more detail. Initially I just hinted at the details by saying things like "his part in this" and such.

I am being sexually/emotionally abused. Not currently, actually, because he's "being good" because I confronted him again a few weeks ago. It is a cycle we have been going through for years. Why should I be the one to leave just because I don't want to be abused anymore? I have always just brushed off his behavior because we are such a great family together and he has so many GOOD qualities. I just thought we could somehow get past the sex issues, but according to my therapist, that won't happen. I'm sure she knows far more about people like him than I do.

I also know now that I have a lot of work to do on myself to stop being abused / stop allowing abuse. First I had to recognize it as abuse. Now the hard work begins.


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## Jellybeans

Oh well I am sorry then...

If that is the case, tell him quickly either way and file for divorce.


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## CarrieAnn

Jellybeans said:


> Oh well I am sorry then...
> 
> If that is the case, tell him quickly either way and file for divorce.


That's the plan. Lots of logistics to work out first. I have no income. I'm not in physical danger or I would be gone today.


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## miss smiley

Thank you for the song lyrics CarrieAnne.
They really hit home...been off this site for a lil bit - time to catch up
Funny thing now is that H says he's going to read up on ways to bring the romance back to our marriage. It only took several yrs of me bringing this up and finally having no sex for 2 wks to drive it home!
I feel terrible because I don't know if I have the energy and desire to try. The harder he tries, the more I resist - what's wrong with me? Too much built up resentment? I do feel so out of love, I question if its possible to have those feelings towards him again.
I look at my life and think, if he wasn't in this marriage- not a whole lot would be different. My friends will still be my friends, family events have always been with my side of the family. We'd still both love and support our kids - I'm just afraid of possibly scarring them for life. 
I'm bracing myself for some hard times ahead.


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## JupitersLament

Came across this thread just now.

It has been over 6 months and I am still dealing with the guilt, it does get easier, but some days are still hard. You have to focus on yourself, as selfish as it seems, you have a right to be happy. You shouldn't stay with someone out of guilt or just for the kids in my opinion, as that just leads to a life of unhappiness for everyone I feel. 

The guilt does get easier, I just hope he takes it well unlike my ex who has become a bit of a loose cannon now 

It's hard to speak about here as many people are the ones who were left behind, not the ones who chose to leave.


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## CarrieAnn

Is there another board or forum that might offer me better support?

We had a roundabout talk this morning. I'm dreading when he comes home. He was very hurt and started berating himself. I told him I didn't think berating himself was going to help matters. His low self-esteem is a huge part of what led us to this point though, so I sort of expected this. Eight years ago when I said I wanted out, he cried all the time and wondered what was wrong with him. So this time, I have tried to shoulder more of the blame even though truthfully, his behavior is what caused my resentment.

Arrrrrrrgh. I'm so scared and worried and nervous that I'm making the wrong choice. And on the other side, I feel a bit relieved that I have started the ball rolling. Maybe I can finally move on.


----------



## CarrieAnn

Oh, and Miss Smiley, I'm sorry I missed your post. I know EXACTLY what you are going through emotionally. Maybe we'll both come out of this better than before. One can hope!


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## Locard

Oh brother, I'm not going here.


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## bestplayer

CarrieAnn said:


> Is there another board or forum that might offer me better support?
> 
> We had a roundabout talk this morning. I'm dreading when he comes home. He was very hurt and started berating himself. I told him I didn't think berating himself was going to help matters. His low self-esteem is a huge part of what led us to this point though, so I sort of expected this. Eight years ago when I said I wanted out, he cried all the time and wondered what was wrong with him. So this time, I have tried to shoulder more of the blame even though truthfully, his behavior is what caused my resentment.
> 
> Arrrrrrrgh. I'm so scared and worried and nervous that I'm making the wrong choice. And on the other side, I feel a bit relieved that I have started the ball rolling. Maybe I can finally move on.


so you have confessed all your affairs to H ? right ?.

Best of Luck


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## brighterlight

Locard said:


> Oh brother, I'm not going here.


:iagree:


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## CarrieAnn

He knows about the first one, but not the second. I don't count the middle one as an affair really because the other guy was not even aware of it (it was all in my head). Neither of the other two were physical affairs, and the second one (the most recent one) the guy isn't even in physical proximity to me (he's an old high school friend).

I think you are trying to goad me rather than help. If you read through ALL my posts in this thread, not just the first one, you will see that I revealed more about what is going on with my husband. When your husband continually tries to stick his **** in your ass for years and years and years, then come back and we'll talk.


(edited to correct typo)


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## brighterlight

CA, it's not goading. I did go back and re-read your posts. Maybe I am not getting all of what you have been through. In one of your posts, it seemed like you were eluding to some issues you had in the bedroom, but it wasn't clear. To make sure I try to get this right, am I correct in understanding from your thread that you feel like he is emotionally disconnected? Or is there something physical going on during sex that degrades you? I am not insinuating that you answer that in detail, just generally so I can try to see it from your POV. Remember, that there are two sides to every story, and the folks on here are really trying to be nuetral and do care and want to help, but I have yet to see a post on this forum where the person posting has not admitted/or seen where they were almost as much in the blame for the failure of the relationship as the other. I need to also ask, did he know about your EA's before you noticed things started going south on your relationship? I mean, I don't know if he did or did not but that will have a HUGE bearing on a man's self esteem. If you where having an EA and he did know, I hope that you understand what an enormous negative impact that has on a man. If your EA's happened after you felt he was emotionally abusive and he never knew, then that would be a different story - but you can not underplay enough what something like your W having and EA will do to a H; it is devastating betrayel. And some men lash out aggressively to that, some become vindictive, some run away from the marriage, some become a stranger in the marriage - but one thing I can gaurantee you is that none ever forget. They may forgive, but the pain is never gone, it's just managed. I also noticed on one of your posts you said, "We have always put the kids first." I take it that means both of you have put each other second. Don't worry, we are all guilty of that. It's one of the mistakes I made in my marriage that is too late to correct but will never do again to a SO. It's one of the lessons learned from my failed marriage.

I hope that you don't feel that we are goading or trying to irritate you, we need to get some clearer perspective on what it is that is hurting you so deeply. If not for what you are going through now, but like the rest of us on here, so you learn where not to make the same mistakes again to help you learn how to be a better person. All in all, I really am sorry you are going through this; it is very tough to be consistantly emotionally, spiritually, and intimately happy in a long term relationship. I envy those that figured that out early enough to save their marriage.


----------



## Jellybeans

I've been meaning to post here for a few days now. 

Carrie Anne... your first post did nto go into detail, only that you were upset and unhappy in your marraige, your husband was passive, and you said you have had 3 different EAs. 

Then you mentioned there were bigger problems and that he's emotionally and sexually abusive and most recently that he is making your have anal sex against your will. 

If you don't have a source of income, you can either call legal aide or file divorce "pro se" (meaning, on your own--it's free). Call the courthouse to see what the procedures are for doing that. 

You mention staying with him 8 additional years after wanting to have left. I'm not sure where your guilt is coming from sinec you say he's abusive. You have a right to happiness and to get out of a relationship. Maybe you can work with your therapist re: why you feel guilty after being so horribly abused.

I do suggest that you find a job, either way. You need to save money and move out or he can move out so you can start your life without him. 

if your kids have been subjected to this abuse (watching dad abuse mom is definitely bringin them up in an abusive environment) then I'd suggest you get counselling for them to deal with this as well. Emotional abuse leaves some really screwed up scars and my bet if they have been affected. Its rare the abuser who only takes the abuse out on the mom and not the kids and I don't know if that is what's happening in your home but no doubt, your kids have been effected if he's very abusive.

I was married to an emotionally abusive man. It gets worse over time. I can't imagine having been with him for 20 years. 

Did your H ever know about yoru affairs?


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## Locard

She said that he has been trying, not that it actually happened!


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## CarrieAnn

Brighterlight and Jellybeans, thank you for clarifying. I will try to post more information. I was intentionally vague in my first post for two reasons: 1) I didn't want to share the ugly details; and 2) I didn't recognize my situation as abusive until I started seeing a therapist AFTER making that first post. I have seen her 3 times now. 

We got married in 1993, had first kid in 1997.

He knows about the first EA, I'm almost certain, but he has never said so. It lasted 2 years (2002-2003) and it was someone local with whom I had regular contact. It could have easily been a PA, but it wasn't. It was hard to give him up, but I wanted to make the marriage work.

The second EA was not even really an EA except that I spent over a year (2007) obsessing over this guy. The guy did not know my feelings. It was more of a crush.

The third EA started in November, got heavy in January/February and ended in March because HE ended it. There was never any personal contact because he lives in a different state. It was purely email and telephone.


Sooooo. What led to the first EA? Throughout my marriage my husband has been extremely jealous of my past. I was married before and I had several long term boyfriends. My husband was a virgin when I met him (at 26). We discussed my past and he seems to never forget a word I say. Apparently the fact that I had had anal sex with someone before made it fair game for him. I agreed to try it for him even though I knew I did not like it. He became obsessed with it and would NOT stop trying, to the point that he actually did it to me twice without my permission. Every single time we had sex he would either ask or try to the point where I started not wanting sex at all. Over the years, I withdrew from him emotionally because I felt so disrespected.

It was at that point that I decided that it is unfair to my husband for me to be emotionally available to other men and not to him and I decided to end the marriage. We had been together "for the kids" for years at that point. I avoided all physical contact with him, but I did have sex with him occasionally. He never stopped trying anal even after we went to counseling and discussed it (2003). I gave up on him and started mentally checking out during sex for the last 8 years. Resentment built quickly.

I am not in physical danger and he does not abuse me in any way that the kids or the outside world can see. That is probably the reason that I feel so guilty about the marriage ending. We have been in a "pretend" marriage for so long, I keep thinking we should just keep pretending for the kids. But I am soooooo drained. I'm getting damned old (I'm 47) and worried about being alone. I just can't see staying "for the kids" for 8 more years until my youngest comes of age.

My guilt is inappropriate, according to my therapist. I'm working on dealing with why I feel responsible for breaking up the marriage by being the one to actually end it, when HE is the one who disrespected me. The EAs were a symptom, not a cause of our breakup.

Not sure if any of that helps or not.


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## CarrieAnn

Locard said:


> She said that he has been trying, not that it actually happened!


By trying, I mean that he knows I am on the verge of leaving (we have discussed it several times over the last couple of months), so he has stopped asking me to have sex and he has bought me flowers 3 times. He has stopped blatantly masturbating in the bed next to me in the morning (I didn't mention that lovely fact in my last post). He was doing that make me feel guilty, I'm sure. He has stopped giving me dirty looks. He has asked to go to counseling with me again.

All too late.

And my therapist says marriage counseling will not work for us until HE deals with his sex issues and abusive behavior. I am not an object for his sexual gratification. Just to be clear, there are several other sexual issues I have not mentioned in my posts.


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## Locard

Carrianne, those are some issues for sure. Your therapist should know better than to say MC is non issue based on your husbands actions without talking to him. You know, the two sides to every story bit. 

What I can't get behind is the damage that is going to your children, think nuclear bomb. With the absense of DV or addiction I just don't see it. 

Even if you can't stand your H, 6 or 7 more years of annoyance for your kids sake could be your sacrifice for them. 

You should go to MC. You need to stop filitering info that does not support what you want to hear. MC would be a great place to have H called out for his behavior. 

Best wishes for you and your family.


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## Locard

Also, I am not hear to berate you. If you need an outlet keep on posting and I'll check out of this one.


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## CarrieAnn

Locard said:


> Carrianne, those are some issues for sure. Your therapist should know better than to say MC is non issue based on your husbands actions without talking to him. You know, the two sides to every story bit.
> 
> What I can't get behind is the damage that is going to your children, think nuclear bomb. With the absense of DV or addiction I just don't see it.
> 
> Even if you can't stand your H, 6 or 7 more years of annoyance for your kids sake could be your sacrifice for them.
> 
> You should go to MC. You need to stop filitering info that does not support what you want to hear. MC would be a great place to have H called out for his behavior.
> 
> Best wishes for you and your family.



Agree that there are two sides to every story, but my husband and I went to counseling about this for nearly 5 month in 2003. He ignored it all.

There is also a lot that I have not posted here, but thanks for trying to help (???) me get over my guilt by telling me to stay put and continue to take it in the ass, so to speak.


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## Locard

Carrieann, that was funny!


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## CarrieAnn

BTW, it is the "damage to my children" that I am most concerned about, and the reason I have stayed here for so long despite how it makes me feel inside.


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## RunningOnEmpty

CA, I dont think you should feel guilty for leaving.

I am in a similar situation, except my wife is not trying to stick anything in me . But seriously, I am in my marriage just for my kids. I think my wife suffers from BPD, or maybe she is just incompatible with me. But for whatever reason I've lost the love for my wife, bit by bit, till there is nothing left.

I think my situation is not as bad as yours, at least from what you've posted so far. And I already decided to divorce. From what you post, your relationship is abusive, your H doesnt respect you. 

About the kids, I've spent countless hours researching. And at the end, I think they will be alright.

There is a lot of noise out there on how divorce affects the kids, but if you keep reading, you'll see that 40% of kids in the US have divorced parents.

With those numbers, it is close to half. It means that in your kids class, almost half of them have divorced parents. For every study saying how bad divorce is, there is another saying the opposite.

Is it ideal that they have to deal with a split home? H*ll no! But life is only one, and there is no point in throwing it away.

I think that if you and your H can work in an amicable co-parenting partnership, and show your kids lots of love, and dedicate to them lots of time, they will turn out alright.

This are only my thoughts on this. You have to look deep inside of you and choose a path to follow.


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## brighterlight

Carrieann, i retract my earlier posts. Sorry im late posting, been tied up this afternoon. LEAVE HIM, you will do fine raising your kids without him. No man, real man anyway, would EVER do something sexually abusive to another woman - wife or otherwise. That is disrespectful and completely takes the intimacy and love out of a sexual relationship. It's demeaning to you and it is demoralizing. You say he is a good man, i say he sounds like a rapist. Sorry, but thats what it sounds like. Leave, file for divorce. See if a friend can help you out for now, find an agency that will help you find work. I am not sure therapy will help him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

What is your plan?


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## Undertheradar

Carrie,
I'm a man on the receiveing end of what you describe. I've been with my wife for 16 years, and she TOLD me 3 months ago, that she wasn't happy, and wanted to be alone. We also have 3 children.
Since then, she's basically tried to wiggle her way out of it, by telling me she's either confused, or doesn't realize what she's feeling.
What she's feeling, is a lack of love for her husband, and resentment for ending her EA.
Me, on the other hand, am slowly developing the courage to accept how she feels, and have now started to wean myself off the marriage.

So I guess I'm trying to tell you tell him nicely, but expect lots of tears. It could take months before both accept what you want.


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## CarrieAnn

RunningOnEmpty, thank you for the reassurance. I actually think the kids will be fine. Happy about it, no. My plan is to have the "house get the kids" and for my husband and I to move in and out. Hopefully he will agree with that. I think it would be very unfair to make the kids move in and out of the house they have known their whole lives. People think it is a crazy idea, but I know people who have successfully done it for years. My husband and I get along very well (well, maybe not so well once I finally say I want out), so I think/hope we can manage this.

BrighterLight, he swears the first time was an accident. I don't know for sure, that is not my recollection. The second time, was definitely not an accident. Rape? Probably. I don't like to think that way, but it fits the definition.

Undertheradar, thank you. I'm very sorry to hear of your pain, but I really think he will ultimately accept that this is the right decision for both of us. We are NOT compatible sexually. I agree that your wife's issue is not loving you anymore. That hurts a lot. I WANT to love him, but he is not lovable to me anymore. I WANT this family life. I WANT the dream. I need to accept the reality that we are messed up. My choice to have an EA so many years ago was not the cause, but it was not a good choice of ways to handle the problems in our marriage. His choice to continue treating me like an object for his sexual pleasure even after counseling was not a good choice. We are both to blame for this.

Jellybeans, I am trying to get the nerve to flat out say I'm done. We danced around the issue Tuesday morning. I just could not push those words out of my mouth. Then I met with my therapist on Wednesday and she helped me to understand that of course there will be ambivalence in a major life decision. I just need courage to be responsible for MY feelings and let him have his own feelings. I keep trying to protect him. That's just the way I am. A conflict avoider. A peacekeeper.

And what happened to that long note from the person advertising their website and telling me to stay married? Was it deemed spam and removed by moderators? Weird.

Thank you to everyone who posts here, even those who don't say things I care to hear.


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## brighterlight

CarrieAnn said:


> RunningOnEmpty, thank you for the reassurance. I actually think the kids will be fine. Happy about it, no. My plan is to have the "house get the kids" and for my husband and I to move in and out. Hopefully he will agree with that. I think it would be very unfair to make the kids move in and out of the house they have known their whole lives. People think it is a crazy idea, but I know people who have successfully done it for years. My husband and I get along very well (well, maybe not so well once I finally say I want out), so I think/hope we can manage this.


Many people have done that, it's called birdnesting. Not a bad idea if you can both work with it.



CarrieAnn said:


> BrighterLight, he swears the first time was an accident. I don't know for sure, that is not my recollection. The second time, was definitely not an accident. Rape? Probably. I don't like to think that way, but it fits the definition.


I know it sounds horrible but anytime someone forces themselves sexually on the other without their consent is usually defined as rape. I don't know, can a husband be accused of raping his own wife, I don't know. And I am not saying to accuse him of that, I am just mentioning it for the sake of discussion and what it sounds like to me I guess.



CarrieAnn said:


> Undertheradar, thank you. I'm very sorry to hear of your pain, but I really think he will ultimately accept that this is the right decision for both of us. We are NOT compatible sexually. I agree that your wife's issue is not loving you anymore. That hurts a lot. I WANT to love him, but he is not lovable to me anymore. I WANT this family life. I WANT the dream. I need to accept the reality that we are messed up. My choice to have an EA so many years ago was not the cause, but it was not a good choice of ways to handle the problems in our marriage. His choice to continue treating me like an object for his sexual pleasure even after counseling was not a good choice. We are both to blame for this.


You can't beat yourself up any more over this. File the D and work on yourself and moving on to better things. I know what it is you are letting go of with your family and the cost of it, but you can work things out and make things better for you and your kids.



CarrieAnn said:


> Jellybeans, I am trying to get the nerve to flat out say I'm done. We danced around the issue Tuesday morning. I just could not push those words out of my mouth. Then I met with my therapist on Wednesday and she helped me to understand that of course there will be ambivalence in a major life decision. I just need courage to be responsible for MY feelings and let him have his own feelings. I keep trying to protect him. That's just the way I am. A conflict avoider. A peacekeeper.
> 
> And what happened to that long note from the person advertising their website and telling me to stay married? Was it deemed spam and removed by moderators? Weird.
> 
> Thank you to everyone who posts here, even those who don't say things I care to hear.


Hang in there. Keep seeing your therapist. There is never a good time to break this news to your SO. You just have to pick your best time, when you are ready and find the courage, you will know.


----------



## bestplayer

Jellybeans said:


> I've been meaning to post here for a few days now.
> 
> Carrie Anne... your first post did nto go into detail, only that you were upset and unhappy in your marraige, your husband was passive, and you said you have had 3 different EAs.
> 
> Then you mentioned there were bigger problems and that he's emotionally and sexually abusive and most recently that he is making your have anal sex against your will.
> 
> If you don't have a source of income, you can either call legal aide or file divorce "pro se" (meaning, on your own--it's free). Call the courthouse to see what the procedures are for doing that.
> 
> You mention staying with him 8 additional years after wanting to have left. I'm not sure where your guilt is coming from sinec you say he's abusive. You have a right to happiness and to get out of a relationship. Maybe you can work with your therapist re: why you feel guilty after being so horribly abused.
> 
> I do suggest that you find a job, either way. You need to save money and move out or he can move out so you can start your life without him.
> 
> if your kids have been subjected to this abuse (watching dad abuse mom is definitely bringin them up in an abusive environment) then I'd suggest you get counselling for them to deal with this as well. Emotional abuse leaves some really screwed up scars and my bet if they have been affected. Its rare the abuser who only takes the abuse out on the mom and not the kids and I don't know if that is what's happening in your home but no doubt, your kids have been effected if he's very abusive.
> 
> I was married to an emotionally abusive man. It gets worse over time. I can't imagine having been with him for 20 years.
> 
> Did your H ever know about yoru affairs?


whats wrong with anal sex ? so many porn stars enjoy that once they get used to it .


----------



## Jellybeans

CarrieAnn said:


> Jellybeans, I am trying to get the nerve to flat out say I'm done. We danced around the issue Tuesday morning. I just could not push those words out of my mouth. Then I met with my therapist on Wednesday and she helped me to understand that of course there will be ambivalence in a major life decision. I just need courage to be responsible for MY feelings and let him have his own feelings. I keep trying to protect him. That's just the way I am. A conflict avoider. A peacekeeper.


The longer you wait to tell, the longer limbo lasts, the longer your misery and the worse it is for you, your husband, and your kids.



bestplayer said:


> whats wrong with anal sex ? so many porn stars enjoy that once they get used to it .


Re-read my post. I did not say anything was wrong with it. I said when it's done against your will, it's wrong. 

What relevance do porn stars have with sex against someone's will?


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## CalmMarian

mentallydrained said:


> For what it's worth, you are not alone in these types of emotions/feelings. I share identical loss of connection and I completely understand when you refer to guilt and not wanting to cause hurt.
> 
> Disconnecting and just growing obviously can be painful when not on the same road as spouse.



I have been there too!

I wish I could take away the pain. 

A friend helped me through my issues by asking me to imagine my dream relationship (like she was my fairygodmother and could do it  . Writing it down and beleiving God would send it to me (whether it was with my husband or not) helped me stay hopeful and stable as we moved forward. I'd love for you to just take a few minutes to write it here.


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## CalmMarian

mentallydrained said:


> For what it's worth, you are not alone in these types of emotions/feelings. I share identical loss of connection and I completely understand when you refer to guilt and not wanting to cause hurt.
> 
> Disconnecting and just growing obviously can be painful when not on the same road as spouse.


I LOVE your profile pic!


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## CalmMarian

CarrieAnn said:


> BTW, it is the "damage to my children" that I am most concerned about, and the reason I have stayed here for so long despite how it makes me feel inside.


That's the biggest concern of most of us in your situation!

Stop trying to fix him or your marriage. Work on you and being the best Mom you can be. Forgive and don't leave. The one who leaves has the worst of it in court!


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## miss smiley

CarrieAnn- it sounds like you are on your way to happiness! You seem to know your feelings are justified, have a plan of how you envision this unfolding and get along in general with your H. I identify so much with your situation. This post helps me more than you know - thank you! Please continue to keep us updated on your progress.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mentallydrained

CalmMarian said:


> I have been there too!
> 
> I wish I could take away the pain.
> 
> A friend helped me through my issues by asking me to imagine my dream relationship (like she was my fairygodmother and could do it  . Writing it down and beleiving God would send it to me (whether it was with my husband or not) helped me stay hopeful and stable as we moved forward. I'd love for you to just take a few minutes to write it here.


Well....my problem is I question everything. And I mean literally question the heck and analyze things to the death. I feel I have a serious mental problem! Really, I do!! I thought THIS was my dream relationship. I honestly believed, or maybe made myself believe, my now H was it and at the time, I did not care if we ever had kids. I cannot let go of the past things that were said. My self analysis is I cannot let go because they are very hurtful because truthful. H didn't want to get married due to our age difference and him not wanting anymore kids. He has one son. At that time, I didn't think about kids. We were very close, attached at the hip and i didn't care. All I cared about was being with him. 

Looking back, I had no one else. No circle of friends. His friends were mine. I had none of my own persay. No old H.S. friends....zilch! So....did I 'trick him'? Counsler says I didn't hold gun to his head, and no caddle prods at wedding, yet, I often wonder. The mind can be a powerful thing. I don't know. 

To type out my dream relationship today, after I analyze it, will change tomorrow. I'd love to have a large circle of friends to share fun times with, whom have kids my daughters age to enjoy. She's 7 with an adult mind as that's all she's been around other than school. I miss just having fun. Doing what ever. H....he is content with just the 3 of us. Says he doens't need anything but the 3 of us and that's all. I don't know....I don't know how to feel or what to think anymore.


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## mentallydrained

CalmMarian said:


> I LOVE your profile pic!


 thanks. It's my heart on my sleeve kinda thing.


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## CalmMarian

mentallydrained said:


> To type out my dream relationship today, after I analyze it, will change tomorrow. I'd love to have a large circle of friends to share fun times with, whom have kids my daughters age to enjoy. She's 7 with an adult mind as that's all she's been around other than school. I miss just having fun. Doing what ever. H....he is content with just the 3 of us. Says he doens't need anything but the 3 of us and that's all. I don't know....I don't know how to feel or what to think anymore.


MentallyDrained,

How courageous for you to even attempt to dream a little.

You're NOT mentally ill! You are tired and as your username says "mentally drained". It's TOTALLY normal to have a slightly different dream day today then tomorrow. Also, it's okay that he has some different dreams then you!!!!!!!!

So you'll have a day you spend together and a day you and your daughter go off with friends. One of the reasons so many have marital problems is they think to have a happy relationship you have to lay down and "die" so your partner can have life the way they want it. 

Keep focusing on the dreams, no matter how unreal they seem today. It's believing things can change that opens the door for them to change!!!!!!

TRULY I have been there and happen to be in a place where I watch many others who are there too.


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## sinnister

Please forgive my naive questions but I just dont want to be making the same mistakes as your husband.

What do you mean by sexually abused? I always thought sexual abuse to be forceable sexaul acts against a parties will. Is that what he has done? Or is it that he requests certain acts in the bedroom that you aren't willing to perform and that has caused you to not love him? I'm just confused and need clarification, because quite frankly...I may be doing this to my wife. All the signs of physical withdrawl are there. Can it be because I'm too much of a freak between the sheets?

Please PM me if it's easier.


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## brighterlight

sinnister, She mentioned on this post earlier, that he forced himself on her a few times. I don't think her problem is so much with the consent itself, although, if she has mentioned to him even during consent that she did not like it; he should have had more respect for her and followed her wishes.


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## CarrieAnn

sinnister said:


> Please forgive my naive questions but I just dont want to be making the same mistakes as your husband.
> 
> What do you mean by sexually abused? I always thought sexual abuse to be forceable sexaul acts against a parties will. Is that what he has done? Or is it that he requests certain acts in the bedroom that you aren't willing to perform and that has caused you to not love him? I'm just confused and need clarification, because quite frankly...I may be doing this to my wife. All the signs of physical withdrawl are there. Can it be because I'm too much of a freak between the sheets?
> 
> Please PM me if it's easier.


It is a little bit of both, Sinnister. In many ways, I think the abuse is more emotional (disrespect) than sexual. Though there were 2 times he entered me anally when I did not want him to. For me it is more about the disrespect for my feelings. He knows I did anal sex in a previous relationship, so he thinks he deserves it too. I did do it (willingly) early in our relationship, and then I said I did not like it and did not want to do it again. For years and even after counseling (in 2003) when we discussed it in depth, he continued to pressure me to do it. He cannot let it go. He is obsessed with all things anal and will not stop trying. It got to the point where I resisted ALL sex with him because I knew it would go there eventually. I would cringe when he touched me. When we did have sex, I had to check out mentally just to do it. So much for the emotional connection of sex. Do that enough times, and the love just dies.


----------



## CalmMarian

Undertheradar said:


> Carrie,
> I'm a man on the receiveing end of what you describe. I've been with my wife for 16 years, and she TOLD me 3 months ago, that she wasn't happy, and wanted to be alone. We also have 3 children.
> Since then, she's basically tried to wiggle her way out of it, by telling me she's either confused, or doesn't realize what she's feeling.
> What she's feeling, is a lack of love for her husband, and resentment for ending her EA.
> Me, on the other hand, am slowly developing the courage to accept how she feels, and have now started to wean myself off the marriage.
> 
> So I guess I'm trying to tell you tell him nicely, but expect lots of tears. It could take months before both accept what you want.


Why wean yourself of the marriage?
MANY of us women go through phases of lack of interest, and believe me it's just a phase. She should be confused. Maybe you need to each take a step back from each other by creating interests outside of your marriage (sports, etc) but you also need to spend some just "casual" time getting to know each other on a whole new level. She can be won back if you step up and show her how much of a Prince Charming you can be!


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## Jellybeans

Carrie Ann, when are you planning on telling him you want a divorce?


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## CarrieAnn

The plan is Monday, but maybe sooner if I can find a good time. On Monday the in-laws take the kids for a few days. Counselor thinks that would be a good time because then he'll have a few days to deal with his reaction without the kids seeing it. I dread being alone with him in the house though. She told me to work out a backup plan for a place to stay just in case. In my state, you can't just file for divorce. You have to be separated for a year first.


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## Ned

CarrieAnn - I hope you will at least be honorable enough not to demand alimony or otherwise take advantage of your husband in the divorce proceedings. Just because the law says you *CAN* financially destroy your husband, doesn't mean you *SHOULD*. He will already be devastated enough with the emotional trauma of having his life turned upside down.

Beyond the normal 50/50 distribution of assets and child support (if applicable) you have no moral right to anything else. Asking for anything beyond that is pouring salt on an open wound, besides being just flat-out unethical behavior.


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## Jellybeans

How did it go when you told him, Carrie?


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## CarrieAnn

Ned said:


> CarrieAnn - I hope you will at least be honorable enough not to demand alimony or otherwise take advantage of your husband in the divorce proceedings. Just because the law says you *CAN* financially destroy your husband, doesn't mean you *SHOULD*. He will already be devastated enough with the emotional trauma of having his life turned upside down.
> 
> Beyond the normal 50/50 distribution of assets and child support (if applicable) you have no moral right to anything else. Asking for anything beyond that is pouring salt on an open wound, besides being just flat-out unethical behavior.


Wow. I'm not sure how alimony will destroy him. It would allow our kids to have the life they are used to. The way I see it, nothing changes except I am no longer obligated to have sex with him.

But seriously, do you think he has no financial obligation? Seriously? Did he have a marital right to stick his **** in my ass?


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## CarrieAnn

..

removed


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## SomethingMore

Hello Carrie Ann and others in this same situation. When I found this thread yesterday it was a relief to hear about how others struggle with this too. It’s difficult to deal with the guilt and fear.

We have two kids, 11 and 5. We have been together for 20 years, married 17. The last 8 years of marriage have not been fulfilling. My emotional needs are not being met, and I don’t feel any connection to him romantically any more. My H makes selfish decisions, it can be difficult to get him to participate in family activities unless “he feels like it”. Sometimes it feels like I have three kids because H gets into petty arguments with the kids and doesn’t clean up after himself. I feel like I am the “fixer”, working around his issues to smooth things out with my kids and extended family.

We stopped kissing years ago, even though I told him how important it was to me. I was having sex out of obligation, because he is sooo persistent and gets mopey if it has been more than a few days. And Carrie Ann, I understand your situation because my H seems obsessed with the idea of anal sex, even though I tell him I am not interested in it. It feels so bad to have to disconnect to have sex…it truly is “soul crushing”.

For many years I have focused on my kids, and tried to get a lot of my fulfillment from being a mom. It’s too hard though to ignore the things that are missing. I feel a deep aching to have more in my life. I told H a few weeks ago that I cannot continue to have sex with him, it’s demoralizing and degrading, and that I think we should separate.

It’s been difficult because H feels completely surprised by the situation, even though I have brought things up over the years. I think men just don’t see how serious the issue is until you knock them over the head with it. The problem now is I just don’t think I can repair my feelings for him, there’s too much resentment. He sincerely loves me and the kids, so it just makes you feel really bad about wanting to end the relationship. And from the outside it looks like we have a happy family and good relationship, so there are external pressures to try and make it work. Ug!


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## CarrieAnn

Jellybeans said:


> How did it go when you told him, Carrie?


Not well. He is in complete denial of what I'm saying. His reaction was an angry, "So it is when, not if?"

Um...yes.

He does NOT want to be separted in any way, not even the way I suggested which is "birdnesting" (we move in and out, not the kids). He wants NO separation. So I'm going to have to work on this. If I leave, it could be abandonment. I need to consult an attorney if I cannot get this across to him. My hope was for mediation, not attorneys.


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## CarrieAnn

SomethingMore said:


> We stopped kissing years ago, even though I told him how important it was to me. I was having sex out of obligation, because he is sooo persistent and gets mopey if it has been more than a few days. And Carrie Ann, I understand your situation because my H seems obsessed with the idea of anal sex, even though I tell him I am not interested in it. It feels so bad to have to disconnect to have sex…it truly is “soul crushing”.


Arrrrrgh. I totally understand "mopey." 

It really amazes me when I discover that I am not the only one. We can be so alone with our feelings. 

I have been floundering for weeks over doing the "right" thing. While I know the right thing for me is to remove myself from this dysfunctional marriage, it is so hard. I keep thinking it is a big mistake. I know that I cannot have a "normal" sexual relationship with him ever again though, so leaving is the right thing. I'm terrified, but I have great hope for the future.


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## broken1

CarrieAnn, I know your mind is made up so I'm probably just wearing my fingers out but your posts make me sad. I mean, I'm sad that you are in such turmoil, but more sad that you seem so hopeless. How long ago did you give up? From that point on its not surprising that things only got worse. I haven't read everything but it sounds like sex is the primary issue. I'm not sure if it has more to do with sex itself being such a bad experience or the thought that you'll never enjoy sex with him again.

Do you realize that there are people (probably several on this site right now) who have stayed with spouses even after having physical affairs? Do you think those people ever thought to themselves "how can I EVER make love to this person again?" And yet, I've heard/read many many stories of couples who take proper steps to heal and allow the connection to come back. Most of them seem to overwhelmingly tell a story of how their marriage is now better than ever. I don't imagine its easy, but it can be done. It does take 2 willing (hopeful) people.

If sex has gotten that bad... Stop having it! Work on re-building your emotional connection again and only get physical when the time is right. Don't be mean about it. Tell him you feel it needs to happen to improve your relationship in the long run. Then explain how you've been feeling about it. If your husband is as big of sex fiend as you describe then maybe he'll divorce you as a result. Really no loss from where you're already at. But just maybe it will help him see a need for change in your relationship.

Also, if somehow it does work out... Make it very clear what part of your body is OFF Limits! If after 8 years he is still constantly trying to do that then its because... A) you sometimes let him which makes him feel its sometimes ok... Or, B) he's spending too much time looking at pornography and fantasizing about it. And if its "B" then you've got a whole different kind of monster that needs addressed. Just one of the many reasons pornography is so destructive in a marriage (yes, I've unfortunately learned some lessons about pornography the hard way...)

Hope you don't think I'm trying to minimize what your going through. I know it must be tough. But I am very PRO-notgivingup. I'm sure folks on this site will start hating me soon from spreading all my "hope in a hopeless situation" messages. But I believe just as circumstaces can go from good to ugly over time, they can also usually always be improved if you and your spouse try changing your perspective a bit and put fourth the effort. I wish you well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ned

CarrieAnn said:


> Wow. I'm not sure how alimony will destroy him. It would allow our kids to have the life they are used to. The way I see it, nothing changes except I am no longer obligated to have sex with him.
> 
> But seriously, do you think he has no financial obligation? Seriously? Did he have a marital right to stick his **** in my ass?



Alimony is NOT child support! These are two completely separate things. Child support is (ostensibly) for your kids; alimony is for you.

Your stbx has a financial obligation to your kids (which I doubt he would have any problem with; most men don't - yes even the "bad" ones). I doubt he'll feel the same way about alimony, as this is basically a form of welfare. After taking 50% of everything he owns and getting child support, to pile on with the additional demand of alimony is just greed and spite on your part.

Do you want him to end up hating you, despising you? Do you want to destroy any possibility of you and him coparenting your children in a civilized manner? You're already divorcing this man, taking half of everything he's worked for, half his retirement if he has any, and locking him into child support payments until your children are grown up. Isn't that punishment enough? Must you also turn him into an indentured servant (ie: slave), forcing him to hand over a huge additional chunk of all his future income so that you don't have to get a real job?

Have some pride. You're an adult - act like it. What the whole point of this thread? Something about your dealing with guilt? I'm not seeing much guilt here; just self-justification, spite and greed.


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## RunningOnEmpty

Ned, in my opinion what you say doesn't apply to everybody. Every situation is different and every person is different.

I am a guy, and if I divorce I would not mind paying alimony to my wife. When we married I committed to support her. When we got kids, she sacrificed her career to stay home and raise them, while I focused on growing professionally. So... in my case.... I would not mind paying her alimony... it is only fair.

Having said that, there are women like you describe. But you cannot generalize like you are doing.


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## Ned

RunningOnEmpty said:


> I am a guy, and if I divorce I would not mind paying alimony to my wife.


For how long? The rest of your life? What about 10 years? Very easy to say these things *now*, but how would you feel if she pulled the rug out from under you after many years or decades of marriage?

Anyway, CarrieAnn sounds like she's already mentally justifying taking her hubby to the cleaners. She doesn't just want freedom; she wants to destroy this man, to make him *pay*. And collect a nice paycheck in the process.

It's amazing how people's ethics and innate sense of fair play evaporate when divorce is in the air. The same people who look down on welfare recipients suddenly have no qualms about doing the exact same thing.


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## No_Angel

Wow... CarrieAnn and SomethingMore - I can't even tell you how I felt when I read both of your posts. My situation is so very similar it is uncanny. It is so unreal finding out there are others out there going through the same thing. I have been married 20 years and have not had the backbone to leave yet. I'm working on it though - hence the reason for my visiting these message boards.


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## CarrieAnn

RunningOnEmpty said:


> Ned, in my opinion what you say doesn't apply to everybody. Every situation is different and every person is different.
> 
> I am a guy, and if I divorce I would not mind paying alimony to my wife. When we married I committed to support her. When we got kids, she sacrificed her career to stay home and raise them, while I focused on growing professionally. So... in my case.... I would not mind paying her alimony... it is only fair.
> 
> Having said that, there are women like you describe. But you cannot generalize like you are doing.



I just cannot take Ned's bitter messages seriously, especially the most recent one where he seems to think he knows me and what I'm asking for. Luckily, I'm married to a man more like you than Ned. I have no intention of "taking him to the cleaners." I gave up a VERY good career after 17 years of working to build it. I bought the house we live in and paid the mortgage WITH him for 10 years. WE chose for me to give up the career because we felt it would be best for our kids.

Ending the marriage is HUGELY painful for me and I have tremendous, albeit misplaced, guilt over it. Guilt is simply anger at myself for not fulfilling my dream of happily ever after.


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## Ned

CarrieAnn said:


> I just cannot take Ned's bitter messages seriously, especially the most recent one where he seems to think he knows me and what I'm asking for. Luckily, I'm married to a man more like you than Ned. I have no intention of "taking him to the cleaners." I gave up a VERY good career after 17 years of working to build it. I bought the house we live in and paid the mortgage WITH him for 10 years. WE chose for me to give up the career because we felt it would be best for our kids.
> 
> Ending the marriage is HUGELY painful for me and I have tremendous, albeit misplaced, guilt over it. Guilt is simply anger at myself for not fulfilling my dream of happily ever after.


So just to be clear, the only thing you want is 50/50 division of all assets & child support (if applicable)?

If that's all you want, then what are we arguing about? Nobody has any problem with that. It's this nasty practice of demanding alimony that is rightly looked down on by most people, especially when women expect alimony for more than a few years. It's not uncommon for lazy, vindictive women to live off alimony *their entire lives*. This is called "lifetime alimony" as is a travesty in this day and age.

By the way, being mad at yourself for not dumping your husband sooner isn't really "guilt". Guilt is when you feel bad for hurting someone. Clearly you're only feeling bad about hurting yourself by not leaving earlier. That's not guilt. That's just frustration and feeling sorry for yourself. These are understandable emotions, but they are not noble ones.


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## CarrieAnn

Ned said:


> So just to be clear, the only thing you want is 50/50 division of all assets & child support (if applicable)?
> 
> If that's all you want, then what are we arguing about? Nobody has any problem with that. It's this nasty practice of demanding alimony that is rightly looked down on by most people, especially when women expect alimony for more than a few years. It's not uncommon for lazy, vindictive women to live off alimony *their entire lives*. This is called "lifetime alimony" as is a travesty in this day and age.
> 
> By the way, being mad at yourself for not dumping your husband sooner isn't really "guilt". Guilt is when you feel bad for hurting someone. Clearly you're only feeling bad about hurting yourself by not leaving earlier. That's not guilt. That's just frustration and feeling sorry for yourself. These are understandable emotions, but they are not noble ones.


You seem to know an awful lot about other people's motives and intentions. How do you do that?


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## SomethingMore

No_Angel said:


> Wow... CarrieAnn and SomethingMore - I can't even tell you how I felt when I read both of your posts. My situation is so very similar it is uncanny. It is so unreal finding out there are others out there going through the same thing. I have been married 20 years and have not had the backbone to leave yet. I'm working on it though - hence the reason for my visiting these message boards.


Hi No Angel- Sorry to hear you are in the same boat. Though finding others in the same situation has helped me feel less "nuts". Have you had any conversations with H about your dissatisfaction? 

I have found a couple of resources that have been helpful. The first is "How to Decide if You Should Divorce" by Lisa M. Christopher. It is written for women, and is available for on-line download. She starts with, "What was happening to me? I had been married for 15 years, had two wonderful children, appeared to have a great relationship from the outside, and yet I was deeply unhappy."

The other is the book "Something More. Excavating Your Authentic Self", by Sarah Ban Breathnach. It is not a book on divorce per se, but there are chapters that talk about it. I have been really enjoying it. I think the book is directed at women after 40 who know something is missing from their lives, and how to be true to yourself.

I have told my H that I was very unhappy, and that I thought we should separate. He was very upset and emotional. He has said "no", he doesn't want to do that. He wants a chance to repair our relationship. It kind of feels like though by the time you arrive at that difficult conclusion that you want to be apart, you don't want to go back and work on things anymore. It's still a struggle to figure out what to do.

What are you thinking of doing? Do you have children to consider?


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## SomethingMore

CarrieAnn said:


> Ending the marriage is HUGELY painful for me and I have tremendous, albeit misplaced, guilt over it. Guilt is simply anger at myself for not fulfilling my dream of happily ever after.


Hi Carrie Ann- This makes perfect sense to me. There is a lot of pain and guilt. Guilt for hurting him, your children, and the feelings that you haven't done what you needed to do for yourself. Women often put others' needs before our own, and then I think we get to a point where we're like, wait a minute, what about my happiness?

How have things been going for you in your discussions, any progress? My H has suggested the possibility of having an apartment that he and I take turns using, and keeping the kids at home. Things are moving slowly while we try to figure this out. It's so hard to know the right thing to do.


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## CarrieAnn

SomethingMore said:


> Hi Carrie Ann- This makes perfect sense to me. There is a lot of pain and guilt. Guilt for hurting him, your children, and the feelings that you haven't done what you needed to do for yourself. Women often put others' needs before our own, and then I think we get to a point where we're like, wait a minute, what about my happiness?
> 
> How have things been going for you in your discussions, any progress? My H has suggested the possibility of having an apartment that he and I take turns using, and keeping the kids at home. Things are moving slowly while we try to figure this out. It's so hard to know the right thing to do.


We're in our usual holding pattern after starting the talks. This is very common for us, except now I am so much more confident that this is the right decision. We had very difficult discussions Monday and Tuesday nights and have not spoken about it since. I have not slept in our bedroom since Monday night. Tuesday morning after our Monday night talk, he wanted to "snuggle" in bed for the first time in ages. It just felt terrible. Why now? He's grasping. It is hard and adds to the guilt. I hate hurting anyone.

We have a great option for sharing a place and moving in and out of the house. I hope he is on board with it like your husband is when I finally get to the point of mentioning it. We can't ignore this for much longer. I have told him my intentions, told him that my consulting work would be to pay for another place for us to live, not for extra income to buy things. His first reaction when I told him I would be consulting again was how we could use the extra money. Then he got upset and said, "So it is not even 'if', it is 'when'?" Um... hello? What have all these conversations we've been having over the last few months been leading to? Complete denial.

I am fortunate to have a couple of good friends I trust. When I finally confided in them recently, my world changed. Keeping big secrets like this builds big walls with friends. They have been so supportive and helpful. I could never have imagined. My fear and guilt kept me from being honest. But then again, everything seems to be falling into place since I started counseling.

A good book to check out is "Coming Apart: Why Relationships End and How to Live Through the Ending of Yours" by Daphne Rose Kingma. I'm also reading "Nice Girls Can Finish First: Getting the Results You Want and the Respect You Deserve ... While Still Being Liked" by Daylle Deanna Schwartz.


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## Jellybeans

CarrieAnn said:


> Not well. He is in complete denial of what I'm saying. His reaction was an angry, "So it is when, not if?"
> 
> Um...yes.
> 
> He does NOT want to be separted in any way, not even the way I suggested which is "birdnesting" (we move in and out, not the kids). He wants NO separation. So I'm going to have to work on this. If I leave, it could be abandonment. I need to consult an attorney if I cannot get this across to him. My hope was for mediation, not attorneys.


If he hires an attorney and doesn't want to do mediation, you have to concede. Divorce doesn't go the way you want JUST because you want out. It's like VeryHurt's husband...he wanted the divorce on his terms (mediation) but we all told her HELL NO. To get an attorney. So it may be the case you will end up going through court for the divorce. If he won't do mediation, you are going to have to accept that. 



CarrieAnn said:


> I have been floundering for weeks over doing the "right" thing.
> I keep thinking it is a big mistake.





CarrieAnn said:


> Ending the marriage is HUGELY painful for me and I have tremendous, albeit misplaced, guilt over it. Guilt is simply anger at myself for not fulfilling my dream of happily ever after.





CarrieAnn said:


> We're in our usual holding pattern after starting the talks. Tuesday morning after our Monday night talk, he wanted to "snuggle" in bed for the first time in ages. It just felt terrible. Why now? He's grasping. It is hard and adds to the guilt. I hate hurting anyone.
> 
> Then he got upset and said, "So it is not even 'if', it is 'when'?" Um... hello? What have all these conversations we've been having over the last few months been leading to? Complete denial.
> 
> My fear and guilt kept me from being honest. But then again, everything seems to be falling into place since I started counseling.


Reading your posts makes me wonder: have you made it 100% clear to him that you want out? Or not? Cause he may feel confused if you have not told him STRAIGHT up that you want out, there is no chance for reconcilation, and that you're completely done.

I know you keep talking about guilt and how guilty you feel and how you don't want to hurt anyone but I guess I am missing waht you're so guilty about. Did you do something wrong? Did you cheat/are you cheating? Guilt is a recurring theme in your thread and I find that generally people don't feel guilty unless they have done something to cause the guilt. So is there something you haven't told us? 

A divorce sucks, I can promise you that. But if you are truly unhappy you need to end it fast and not drag this out. It makes it 1000x times worse when you do that.


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## Ned

CarrieAnn said:


> You seem to know an awful lot about other people's motives and intentions. How do you do that?


Nice job dodging the question. Are you going handle this divorce in a fair and honorable fashion, or will you demand alimony & other unfair compensation? The way you handle this divorce will demonstrate your true moral character (good or bad).

I have no personal stake in this; I just like to see people do the right thing...


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## miss smiley

Alimony isn't unfair compensation. A reasonable amount for a period of time isn't out of the question if one spouse stayed out of the workforce/didn't pursue their career aggressively if it was for the children's best interest. Divorce is a sad thing in itself, both parties just need to be able to keep a clear view of what's fair. I bet the pain clouds the view tho.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CarrieAnn

Ned said:


> Nice job dodging the question. Are you going handle this divorce in a fair and honorable fashion, or will you demand alimony & other unfair compensation? The way you handle this divorce will demonstrate your true moral character (good or bad).
> 
> I have no personal stake in this; I just like to see people do the right thing...


Yes, I'm going to handle this divorce in a fair and honorable fashion. We obviously disagree about what is fair and unfair though, so arguing this with you is pointless.

As others have mentioned (as well as I), my husband and I made a decision TOGETHER for me to quit my lucrative career to stay home with our 3 children. There were inherent risks with that decision for BOTH of us. 

Nowhere in ANY of this thread have I or anyone else mentioned alimony. You brought it up, most likely because you were commenting on someone else's thread about alimony for life. You are making huge assumptions about me and my situation and they are not helpful. Please go away.


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## incomplove

Carrianne, I am going through the same situation as you, and it kills me how people constantly feels like it's easy to just tell someone you are no longer inlove with them, knowing that this person whole world will collaspe, people think it's being insensitive, and selfish, which in a way it is but at the same time you 'are' being sensitive to his feeling, becasue the intention is not to hurt the person (this is not your goal to hurt him and that's what makes it hard) and no matter how or when you tell them it will be a hard conversation to have (especially when you are not in that position yourself) It's easy for someone to stand outside and tell you to just tell him, but in reality it's just not that simple, and it's not that you don't want him to know, but you are worried about his feelings, I'm in this same situation. 

You are definitely not alone, and you are not a bad person for trying to protect his feelings, he will know sooner or later I'm sure. But do it on your time 

My suggestion is too take away all the distractions other men that happen to be in the picuture taking you away from it emotionally because you will get comfortable in getting your satisfaction from someone else and all of it will prolong the situation and you'd just be putting it off and never get around to telling him anything, and it's not fair to your husband that you are getting your affections from somewhere else, and he's there wondering why he's not getting it from you. So that should be the first step, and then if you continue to feel those feelings then in your own time and when you feel the time is right, (people gonna come on here talkin aobut NOW! NOW! NOW!) but most likely he knows it's over and just waiting for you to tell him, and getting emotionally prepared for that conversation. Pray about it and God will give you the answer and will help push you to do the right thing. I know I'm late on this thread so you probably soloved your issues by now hopefully all worked out for the best. Good luck!


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## sammy3

incomplove said:


> Carrianne, I am going through the same situation as you, and it kills me how people constantly feels like it's easy to just tell someone you are no longer inlove with them, knowing that this person whole world will collaspe, people think it's being insensitive, and selfish, which in a way it is but at the same time you 'are' being sensitive to his feeling, becasue the intention is not to hurt the person (this is not your goal to hurt him and that's what makes it hard) and no matter how or when you tell them it will be a hard conversation to have (especially when you are not in that position yourself) It's easy for someone to stand outside and tell you to just tell him, but in reality it's just not that simple, and it's not that you don't want him to know, but you are worried about his feelings, I'm in this same situation.
> 
> You are definitely not alone, and you are not a bad person for trying to protect his feelings, he will know sooner or later I'm sure. But do it on your time
> 
> My suggestion is too take away all the distractions other men that happen to be in the picuture taking you away from it emotionally because you will get comfortable in getting your satisfaction from someone else and all of it will prolong the situation and you'd just be putting it off and never get around to telling him anything, and it's not fair to your husband that you are getting your affections from somewhere else, and he's there wondering why he's not getting it from you. So that should be the first step, and then if you continue to feel those feelings then in your own time and when you feel the time is right, (people gonna come on here talkin aobut NOW! NOW! NOW!) but most likely he knows it's over and just waiting for you to tell him, and getting emotionally prepared for that conversation. Pray about it and God will give you the answer and will help push you to do the right thing. I know I'm late on this thread so you probably soloved your issues by now hopefully all worked out for the best. Good luck!



WOW ... this is sooooo true !!!! it is sooooo hard to say good bye to someone who has been apart of one's life for sooooo long ...so many tell me , just do it .... they have no idea . so many people say , staying and working on a marriage is so much harder ... UGH !!!! that is so untrue !!! Neither path is easier ... imho...

~sammy


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## Jellybeans

incomplove said:


> I know I'm late on this thread so you probably soloved your issues by now hopefully all worked out for the best. Good luck!


CarrieAnne hasn't posted since June 2011.


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