# 24 Hours of Foreplay



## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

I come here every day and read about how to fix my marriage.Been married for 30 years to a LD,Non-Sexual,Self-Center Women.But besides that would not change a thing.Well I read about foreplay does not start in the bedroom with female's.So it made sense to me.So yesterday I started early in the day with a love letter in the morning.A nice call in the afternoon.At 5:00 pm I call her and said lets go out to dinner and maybe we come have a nice night out,And come home and get together.Her answer was sounds great.I could tell when she came home from work she was a bit bitter.I realized once again I put pressure on her to perform that night and of course she does not like pressure about sex.So we had some what of a nice evening.I go to bed at 9:00pm .She does not show up,Blows me off.In the morning its the old she's sound to sleep to the very last minute and jump out of bed and say I'm late gotta go.Well my point is this.Next time I think my foreplay will be Hey want to get laid??? All the 24 hours did was make things worse for the rejection???What I have come to realize is there is no changing someone with lack of desire for sex.They are controll freaks.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

You can't do something for only one day and expect miracles.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Just Wondering said:


> I come here every day and read about how to fix my marriage.Been married for 30 years to a LD,Non-Sexual,Self-Center Women.But besides that would not change a thing.Well I read about foreplay does not start in the bedroom with female's.So it made sense to me.So yesterday I started early in the day with a love letter in the morning.A nice call in the afternoon.At 5:00 pm I call her and said lets go out to dinner and maybe we come have a nice night out,And come home and get together.Her answer was sounds great.*I could tell when she came home from work she was a bit bitter.*I realized once again I put pressure on her to perform that night and of course she does not like pressure about sex.So we had some what of a nice evening.I go to bed at 9:00pm .She does not show up,Blows me off.In the morning its the old she's sound to sleep to the very last minute and jump out of bed and say I'm late gotta go.Well my point is this.Next time I think my foreplay will be Hey want to get laid??? All the 24 hours did was make things worse for the rejection???What I have come to realize is there is no changing someone with lack of desire for sex.They are controll freaks.


Uhhhhh... if I was in this fame of mind, no way would I be interested in sex either. Like nora said, you can't expect miracles from one try. Have you tried giving her a massage after a bad day? Not with the expectation of sex, but just to make her feel better? I don't know the particulars of your situation, but try different things to relax her. Not with the sole purpose of "getting laid" as you put it, but to connect with her. It might actually make her more receptive to actually having sex.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I have been doing these things off and on for 24 years. I get the same response as you do. She takes it as pressure to have sex. She never initiates anything that could be construed as 'foreplay', and if I do it, she feels pressure. If I don't do it, then I am not romantic. There is no pleasing her.

You might have success if you do this for a while, but based on my experience, you are correct in that you can't change someone. They have to want to change and they need to care about you and your need for sex/affection.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your foreplay plan would have worked beautifully if you had showered a healthy human being with all that affection instead of wasting it on a zombie. Why do we reward those who torture us? Bad behavior should be punished and only good behavior rewarded. She gives less than bare minimum? Figure out how to give even less back (this would be tough to do).


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> Your foreplay plan would have worked beautifully if you had showered a healthy human being with all that affection instead of wasting it on a zombie. Why do we reward those who torture us? Bad behavior should be punished and only good behavior rewarded. She gives less than bare minimum? Figure out how to give even less back (this would be tough to do).


We reward those that torture us, because we have no option.

You either have to be in a position to walk away or try your hardest to get whatever affection you can from a 'zombie'. Giving less back means getting nothing in return.


----------



## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

You know, I just get tired of all the effort I put in to it all.You try and learn alot about your LD wife? You try the 24 hour thing,Your nice,Your a good man,She loves you.When sex is so important to me and she knows it.And I constantly try to improve myself and the relationship.And you get no where.Whats a shame is when everything else is great between us.But no sex.You are not going to leave them.But you hate to stay.Why is it so important to a LD female to treat their husband like this. Where's the value in her mind to remove sex from me.I would love to know why does she think its worth it to be nonsexual.And still want everything else that comes with a nice marriage.


----------



## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

JW, I think that making an attempt at a mutually acceptable sex life is a basic requirement for marriage --- but I know many people don't agree. I don't have any answers, just feel bad for you.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

norajane said:


> You can't do something for only one day and expect miracles.


A man having sex with his wife constitutes a miracle?! I didn't know they'd lowered the bar on "miraculous" quite as much as that


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I don't understand either JustWondering !!!!!

Seems so simple. I make all kinds of effort to do what I think she needs to feel loved. I want her to be happy. I want her to feel loved and appreciated.

She knows what would make me feel loved and appreciated. But she makes little to no effort.

The weirdest thing!!!! When we do actually make love (once every 10 days or so). She really enjoys it. We feel so connected. I can tell that she really likes to be close in that way. Just makes no sense that she rejects me more often than not and puts no effort into making it happen.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> A man having sex with his wife constitutes a miracle?! I didn't know they'd lowered the bar on "miraculous" quite as much as that


If she's not having sex with him regularly, doesn't want to and hasn't wanted to for a long time, then yes, changing her perspective, outlook, and desire for sex will take a bit of a miracle.


----------



## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

SadSam, if you've ever tried the 40 beads method, you might be able to really benefit (Just Wondering, it may not be as successful for you, but it doesn't hurt to try). 

Essentially, the 40 beads method--assuming I'm remembering correctly is this: you (or the HD partner) has 40 beads (Duh!) in a dish near your bed or hidden nearby. When you're in the mood, you put one of your beads in her dish, letting her know that you're ready for sex whenever she's ready to respond. She has 24 hours to respond. 

My wife and I know a couple who have tried it with a lot of success. According to them, the reason it works is that the LD partner doesn't feel as pressured for sex because it takes the immediacy out of the equation. She has a day to respond, allow her to start anticipating it and having a little mental foreplay. The only catch is that the bead must stay in the LD partner's dish for the full 24 hours with no additional beads being added by the HD partner, because that would be pressuring her, and it would invalidate everything you're trying to do.


----------



## Just Wondering (Dec 20, 2011)

Kinda Funny,Here I'm the man that values sex more than anything on earth.Been married yrs .To a LD women that knows how important it is to me.And she removes that from my life.A lot my HD people try very hard to make the LD person happy.Show them are the love in the world.Smother them with love,kindiness and care for them.But no amont of effort,Love,Kindiness in the world is going to give you a well balance sex life.I gotta laugh at when people say have you given her a back rub,With no expectations of sex,For me 7 times since Jan 1. And I don't think I could rub a naked back of a women and not lay some pipe.I have never quit any project in life.But I'm about to give up on this one.I have never heard of a cure for LD


----------



## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Just Wondering said:


> I have never heard of a cure for LD.


Rum and Coke helps.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

norajane said:


> If she's not having sex with him regularly, doesn't want to and hasn't wanted to for a long time, then yes, changing her perspective, outlook, and desire for sex will take a bit of a miracle.


If it needs a miracle, then there are two things I would point out. Either:

1) MEM11363 and Simply Amorous are candidates for immediate, summary canonisation on their deaths, since their advice has got people having sex (i.e.demonstrable miracles!);
or
2) If sex needs a miracle, this board is a waste of time because if no power on earth can get this guy laid, then sure as hell nothing we write here will help...


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Sawney Beane said:


> If it needs a miracle, then there are two things I would point out. Either:
> 
> 1) MEM11363 and Simply Amorous are candidates for immediate, summary canonisation on their deaths, since their advice has got people having sex (i.e.demonstrable miracles!);
> or
> 2) If sex needs a miracle, this board is a waste of time because if no power on earth can get this guy laid, then sure as hell nothing we write here will help...


Honestly, I suspect #2 is all too true for a lot of the sexless marriage posters here. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try or should stop trying to work on things, but, as is true with almost all marriage-related issues, it takes two to work things out.


----------



## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

norajane said:


> Honestly, I suspect #2 is all too true for a lot of the sexless marriage posters here. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try or should stop trying to work on things, but, as is true with almost all marriage-related issues, it takes two to work things out.


Well it's a funny thing norajane. When I first joined I honestly felt just like you do. A funny thing happened though, I tried and through a lot of different changes good things are starting to happen for me.

I think Dean is right a lot of folks blow off (perhaps mostly males... not sure haven't really noticed one way or another) suggestions from MEM and SA.

I followed it, but I was really really skeptical. I'm glad I did though.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I don't know about MEM but I have a feeling that SA is the definition of a perfect wife.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm not sure how you can say that everything is good, except she's got no sex drive, no apparent desire to sleep with you, and is self centered.

Sounds like your marriage is in pretty big trouble, and the lack of sex is just the most obvious signal. Perhaps you need to reevaluate what it really means to have a "great" marriage.


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

There are three basic alternatives. 

1. Improvement As you note, you have to see if there are things you can do better. Maybe she needs to be seen as a real person, and there things that can be done better. Perhaps you need to understand her better, and success cannot be measured in a day. . 

2. No more weakness This is somewhat the opposite approach. Many women are attracted to strength; if 20 women love a rock singer, another 20 are attracted to him even more because of the others. Start withdrawing. Improve your physical appearance, be a little mysterious. Let her get a little worried. 

3. Call it a day If she doesn't like you, she doesn't like you. Tell her you're done.


----------



## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

Just Wondering said:


> A lot my HD people try very hard to make the LD person happy.Show them are the love in the world.Smother them with love,kindiness and care for them.But no amont of effort,Love,Kindiness in the world is going to give you a well balance sex life.


But that's the thing I think a lot of people don't understand about this HD/LD dilemma. HD people are treating their LD partners like they want to be treated. Golden rule and all that. But for myself, the few LD people I know personally and those I've read here, we don't want slathering affection or constant attention. We want space. Demanding or whining about sex just makes us lock up. Tons of romance makes us suspicious and turns sex into an obligation.

I'm not an expert, and i know a lot of folks here would disagree with me,but sometimes I think the best way to catch the attention of an LD person is to let them come to you in their own time.


----------



## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> I'm not an expert, and i know a lot of folks here would disagree with me,but sometimes I think the best way to catch the attention of an LD person is to let them come to you in their own time.


So roughly half a dozen times a year, as seems to get quoted on here?


----------



## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Dr. Rockstar said:


> Tons of romance makes us suspicious and turns sex into an *obligation*.


Nobody likes that word, but when you strip away all the fancy window dressing, that is exactly what sex is in a marriage. The concept of concomitant obligation is Ethics 101, week 1.

--Not that I have anything against window dressing


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Pack their bags and carry them to the porch. Most of these LD types will run to the bed and throw their legs in the air. Like most lazy people, their laziness exists only as long as it's tolerated.


----------



## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Pack their bags and carry them to the porch. Most of these LD types will run to the bed and throw their legs in the air. Like most lazy people, their laziness exists only as long as it's tolerated.


It's not laziness so much as a lack of desire. For the LD person EVERYTHING is a higher priority than sex... until that once in a blue moon occurs and their drive kicks in.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> Pack their bags and carry them to the porch. Most of these LD types will run to the bed and throw their legs in the air. Like most lazy people, their laziness exists only as long as it's tolerated.


Whoa whoa whoa... Lazy? Ok, there was a time when *I* was the LD spouse, and now, DH is LD lately. But when it comes to sex, I would NEVER refer to him as lazy! Let me put it this way... would you rather have your LD spouse CRY while having sex, because she felt forced to fulfill what her husband felt was her duty, whenever he wanted it? Because, honestly, that's how I felt when I didn't want sex, and I felt I needed to fulfill his needs. I wasn't interested. But I did it anyway, and I felt violated. And yes, he knows about this. I told him afterward... not right away, but I told him. And he never pushed me like that again. 

My point is that while, yes, there is something wrong, it doesn't mean the spouse is LAZY. And right now, with his drive being lower than mine, I don't push... but I am satisfied with what I get from him, and vice versa. Calling someone lazy because he or she won't put out is the easiest way to push them away... now, unless that is the intent, I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

How do "LD" spouses manage to perform at work without sobbing? How do they manage to fulfill everyone else's expectations other than those of their mate's? It's because they can't get away with not performace in their other relationships. Why do they put their most enduring and most important relationship consistently LAST on their priority list? If they treated their closest girlfriend as pitifully as they treated their husband, they wouldn't have a friend long. If they treated their boss or coworkers like they treated their spouse, they'd be fired. If they treated their children like they treated their spouse, they'd be arrested for child neglect.


----------



## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> How do "LD" spouses manage to perform at work without sobbing? How do they manage to fulfill everyone else's expectations other than those of their mate's? It's because they can't get away with not performace in their other relationships. Why do they put their most enduring and most important relationship consistently LAST on their priority list? *If they treated their closest girlfriend as pitifully as they treated their husband, they wouldn't have a friend long.*
> 
> Yep, so lose friends.
> 
> ...


Not saying the neglected spouse doesn't need attention too. But what happens when the LD spouse is pulled in so many different directions and everyone wants all the attention? Someone has to get "leftovers". Work - lose the job. Friends - lose the friends (tho if TRUE friends, they would understand that they can't come first). Kids - no, you can't NOT give the kids attention. SO, what if the neglected spouse isn't carrying his or her weight regarding the kids? What then? And the neglected spouse gets mad because the kids' needs are coming first? I do get what you're saying. I understand it. But some things, people require help to get priorities in order. Things need to change, for sure. But how do things change when not getting the help that is needed?


----------



## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

I know what you are saying Unbelievable, and for other parts of life (work, school, etc.) that is definitely a solid model. Perform or fired, flunked, etc.

Marriage though isn't about job performance, it's about love, dedication, commitment, etc.

All those qualities (except dedication) are not found in work, school, etc.

I think if you try to make marriage about do this or else... well that's just not a marriage I would want to be a part of.

The key, imo, to work with LD spouses is to get them to see sex as something more than a duty but a desire. As something higher priority than many things. Not something done because of fear of force... force may get you more sex (more likely not), but it won't get your loved or desired for. I for one want my wife to want me, to desire me.. not just lay there and let me go to town.


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

If someone, prior to marriage, is well aware that they have a low, to nonexistent, sex drive, they shouldn't be getting married. Period. It is an incredibly cruel thing to do, unless you know going in that your spouse likewise has little sexual drive.

I am appalled by the increasingly large amount of sexless couples that feature ONE person who is failing at sexual communications. Again this isn't about people who become LD through some sort of trauma after marriage, but people who go in knowing that they can take or leave sex.

If you get to the point where your spouse is so far down on your "to do" list, literally, than it's time to cut them free so that they don't waste years, and decades, on you. That's time that could be spent finding someone else who truly sees them as a real spouse, and soulmate, not just somebody who gets the scraps you have left over after the rest of your obligations are covered.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Browncoat,

Love, commitment and dedication mean exactly that you're willing to put your partner's needs ahead of your own. Nobody needs a marriage if they itend to show love only on days they feel like it. Without any further discussion or investigation, I take for granted that any woman I see would be willing to give herself to me if she happened to feel like it. I could get a deeper commitment than that from a prostitute. I love my family and I attend to their needs to the best of my ability regardless of how I happen to feel. It doesn't feel oppressive and I'm not resentful to do it. It's what I promised my wife when I married and it's the job I took on when I decided to be a father. I don't hate my kids because they get hungry. I don't hate my wife if she gets sick, scared, lonely, or horny. These are all normal human needs. If I didn't want to be bothered by others' needs, I should have stayed single. I don't have the right to turn another innocent human into a cold, celibate freak of nature and nobody has the right to turn me into one. Trying to do so is inhuman and just plain evil. If an unexpected illness or accident renders my wife incapable of fulfilling all her promises, I'll roll with it. I'll still expect that she participate in the marriage the best she can considering her limitations. Marriage isn't a form of welfare. It's not winning the lottery. She's not a guest and this aint a resort. She's not baggage or a passenger. She's my partner and she can row, steer, or get out of the canoe.


----------



## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

jaquen said:


> If someone, prior to marriage, is well aware that they have a low, to nonexistent, sex drive, they shouldn't be getting married. Period. It is an incredibly cruel thing to do, unless you know going in that your spouse likewise has little sexual drive.
> 
> I am appalled by the increasingly large amount of sexless couples that feature ONE person who is failing at sexual communications. Again this isn't about people who become LD through some sort of trauma after marriage, but people who go in knowing that they can take or leave sex.
> 
> If you get to the point where you spouse is so far down on your "to do" list, literally, than it's time to cut them free so that they don't waste years, and decades, on you. That's time that could be spent finding someone else who truly sees them as a real spouse, and soulmate, not just somebody who gets the scraps you have left over after the rest of your obligations are covered.


Jaquen it may surprise you that I agree to an extent. If you do know up front about massive libido mismatches then that probably should be a huge red flag to call off the wedding.

Unfortunately not everyone can know up front how their libido's can match up. Now I know it seems to be expected these days that all couples have sex, live together, etc. prior to marrying. Not everyone does.

My wife was a virgin when we married. We had huge problems with sex right off the bat (we didn't have sex once during our honeymoon because it was so painful). I didn't think it was right to effectively throw away the woman I loved and had just married days before because of some pains. So we continued over the next year to work on it. It took almost year after marriage before we could have sex at all, that is any penetration whatsoever.

So according to you we should have parted ways. Even though we both were/are very much in love. I will admit there is some cold logic to that at some level. It certainly would have saved me from a lot of pain. On the flip side though, fast forward to now (15 years after our wedding) and we now have 4 kids and we still very much love each other. Yes it's taken us until now to finally have something that resembles what might be a normal sex life.

Still we have had a marriage free of so many other problems talked about on this forum. No money issues. No parenting/children issues to speak of. No affection issues. No EA/PA's.

Our only problem was libido and painful sex. So if we had given up on our marriage because of that, yes it might have led to me getting married to a woman with a higher libido. We'll never know. It suspect it would have devastated my wife, to have the man who loves her throw her away because she can't perform.

What I do know for certain is that I have 4 beautiful and loving children, and wife who is my best friend and we are so very very close. I have a wife who will be my partner when I'm old and grey, provided neither of us dies first. I will have a woman to share and enjoy my twilight years, grandparenting with, many more happy memories....

IDK I don't think it's so cut and dry like you and Unbelievable seem to make it out to be. There is value still in a marriage even when sex drives don't match. There is beauty and happiness there, as well as the pain. Don't most marriages have that though?

Sorry OP we have taken this off on a huge tangent.

Oh and I should say while this is about my life, I won't take it personally in the slightest if you think I made a mistake. It's all good. I'm a big boy and I live with my choices... I chose to stay with my wife, you may not have in the same situation... that would be your choice.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think the difference browncoat is that your wife didn't give up. Even though there were challenges she still tried and the trying is enough to make a man feel loved and appreciated. If she was unwilling too put in any effort, if she was unable to recognize the importance, wouldn't you have a much different story? There are many LD spouses who just say 'that's your problem I'm perfectly satisfied' which leads to a completely different dynamic.


----------



## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think the difference browncoat is that your wife didn't give up. Even though there were challenges she still tried and the trying is enough to make a man feel loved and appreciated. If she was unwilling too put in any effort, if she was unable to recognize the importance, wouldn't you have a much different story? There are many LD spouses who just say 'that's your problem I'm perfectly satisfied' which leads to a completely different dynamic.


You definitely have a point... no doubt about it. I am so very grateful that she really made a point to try and turn things around. Without that... who knows.


----------



## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

Just Wondering said:


> I come here every day and read about how to fix my marriage.Been married for 30 years to a LD,Non-Sexual,Self-Center Women.But besides that would not change a thing.Well I read about foreplay does not start in the bedroom with female's.So it made sense to me.So yesterday I started early in the day with a love letter in the morning.A nice call in the afternoon.At 5:00 pm I call her and said lets go out to dinner and maybe we come have a nice night out,And come home and get together.Her answer was sounds great.I could tell when she came home from work she was a bit bitter.I realized once again I put pressure on her to perform that night and of course she does not like pressure about sex.So we had some what of a nice evening.I go to bed at 9:00pm .She does not show up,Blows me off.In the morning its the old she's sound to sleep to the very last minute and jump out of bed and say I'm late gotta go.Well my point is this.Next time I think my foreplay will be Hey want to get laid??? All the 24 hours did was make things worse for the rejection???What I have come to realize is there is no changing someone with lack of desire for sex.They are controll freaks.


The definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing over and over and expect different results.... are you insane?
Reason I ask is because I probably am since I keep thinking my LD wife will change. Just this morning I tried to sneak a kiss with tongue when we woke up.. all she wanted to do was hug. I pushed and ask for a kiss with tongue and she said "oh morning breath" which is the usual response. So I ask "you just don't love me like that do you" and she responded "no". Can't remember the last time I got a long deep french kiss! The day is coming when she will wake up alone...


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> Unfortunately not everyone can know up front how their libido's can match up. Now I know it seems to be expected these days that all couples have sex, live together, etc. prior to marrying. Not everyone does.


My wife in I were in a long term relation long before we got married. For spiritual reasons, we remained celibate through that relationship for years; and I'm talking less than 10, but far more than 5. And we were truly celibate, not an "everything but penetration" couple. We didn't live together prior to marriage either. So yes, I definitely know what you're talking about here.



Browncoat said:


> My wife was a virgin when we married. We had huge problems with sex right off the bat (we didn't have sex once during our honeymoon because it was so painful). I didn't think it was right to effectively throw away the woman I loved and had just married days before because of some pains. So we continued over the next year to work on it. It took almost year after marriage before we could have sex at all, that is any penetration whatsoever.


My wife had only been with one partner prior to marriage, and they had sex a handful of time for one week, and he was on the smaller side. When we finally broke our celibacy on our honeymoon, it was painful for her, we didn't complete penetrative sex, and it took time before sex truly became second nature for us. Again, been here, done that.

The qualifier here, however, is that long before going in both my wife and I, despite our nearly impossible ability to avoid temptation, knew we had incredible chemistry, and both of us had strong libidos. You don't need to have had sex before in order to be in tune with your libido. I personally knew I had a strong, high libido as a very young teen, long before I ever had sex. My wife was the same. Virginity does not preclude knowledge about your sexuality, or the ability to detect sexual chemistry with a potential partner. The first time my wife and I kissed, our worlds exploded. It was literally like every moment you see in the movies, or described in the books. Time stopped. We just knew. As the years rolled on, neither one of us had any fears, or doubts, that we'd have an explosive sex life. We did, and we do.



Browncoat said:


> So according to you we should have parted ways. Even though we both were/are very much in love.


Actually no, not "according to" me. I take marriage extremely seriously, and would never suggest divorce lightly. How does your situation remotely fit the criteria I was referring to in the post you quoted? My post was about low drive individuals, with little to no interest in sex, entering into marriage *knowing *that they have no desire to fulfill their partners sexual-emotional needs. It's also about LD people who are holding onto spouses that they are putting on the bottom of their list. That, to me, is clearly fraud and entrapment.

So unless your wife entered into your marriage knowing full well that she had no intention, or desire, to meet your sexual needs, I fail to understand how your story applies to anything I said.

Your love for your wife, and your dedication, is admirable, but the declaration as a rebuttal to me is unnecessary.





Browncoat said:


> I chose to stay with my wife, you may not have in the same situation... that would be your choice.


Nothing has made me even think of leaving my wife, even before she was my wife. But then again, neither my situation, nor apparently yours, applies to my earlier post.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I'd try 168 Hours of foreplay. The results may be better..... Of course the work too is more intense.

And I think mem11363 is full of it. I like his writing, and do agree he as a lot of valid points, but I also think the pressure he places on his wife for sex is unfair and too much.

But if he is your messiah & saviour all the power to you....


----------



## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

jaquen said:


> Actually no, not "according to" me. I take marriage extremely seriously, and would never suggest divorce lightly. How does your situation remotely fit the criteria I was referring to in the post you quoted? My post was about low drive individuals, with little to no interest in sex, entering into marriage *knowing *that they have no desire to fulfill their partners sexual-emotional needs. It's also about LD people who are holding onto spouses that they are putting on the bottom of their list. That, to me, is clearly fraud and entrapment.
> 
> So unless your wife entered into your marriage knowing full well that she had no intention, or desire, to meet your sexual needs, I fail to understand how your story applies to anything I said.



No she didn't entrap me... that was never her intent. Part of the problem for us too was that I don't think she had a clue what a sex drive looks like. She thought she had one, explained to me that she did. To her that mean: I have masturbated and enjoyed doing it when the mood struck. Unfortunately we found out later that the mood struck 1-2x/month a best.

I was also ignorant as well, I assumed that everyone wanted sex like I did, at least once a day. So a lot of failed communication, ignorance... and really we didn't get good premarital counselling.

My whole take from this, is that for all our kids... all of them will a gift of great premarital counselling on our dime.

I wish more couples went through a high quality counselling program prior to marriage. It would prevent a lot of what we see here on the forums daily. Not all... but a lot of it.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I understand some people's desire to have sex is stronger than their partner's. I don't understand someone who calls themselves a husband or a wife not showing any real interest in meeting their mate's needs. There are things I don't have a burning desire to do but they are important to my wife and my wife is important to me. I make these things a priority. What's hard about this concept? If my wife's needs are not important, then she's not important. If she's not important to me, I'm a fraud if I call myself a husband. I would have to be a sinister, evil waste of skin to just passively watch my spouse suffer for months if I had the ability to relieve her suffering. I don't know how some folks live with themselves.


----------



## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

its all about control. she is getting what she wants with the minimal effort she puts forth. why should she change whats working?


----------



## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Browncoat said:


> I was also ignorant as well, I assumed that everyone wanted sex like I did, at least once a day. So a lot of failed communication, ignorance... and really we didn't get good premarital counselling.
> 
> My whole take from this, is that for all our kids... all of them will a gift of great premarital counselling on our dime.
> 
> I wish more couples went through a high quality counselling program prior to marriage. It would prevent a lot of what we see here on the forums daily. Not all... but a lot of it.


That is a very sound observation, and what insight in regards to looking ahead and helping your children when the time comes for them to inter matrimony. I see that you're a good father as well as husband. What a gift they all are for having you.

We didn't do premarital counseling. There wasn't any need, and that is mainly because we were best friends for such a long time before turning romantic, and then were in a relationship for even longer before marriage, that we'd built a very strong foundation of communication. Counseling helps couples to think about questions and issues to address that many do not, or are uncomfortable approaching. But it's imperative to be open, free, and as honest as possible when entering a lifetime commitment such as this.

I'm glad you guys are finding a way to survive, and even thrive, despite your issues.


----------



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm off on a Mediterranean cruise (no kids for the first time over 4 days in 19 years) and as I see it I have about 768 hours of foreplay prior...... So what???? All you people going on and on about sex. Yes my wife thinks I'm obsessed and sees this site up on the computer. I tell her I am nowhere near as obsessive as compared to others posting and she should be thrilled. We have a good sex life as everything works properly, we still enjoy each others company, look younger then our ages and are together still after 26 odd years..... 

And yes we do argue about sex as I want it more (and convinced she'd like it too, but will only push so much and not play the games like Mem11363 and other advocate on this site).... But heck if we can get close to 1X/wk and come holidays ramp it up, there are more important things in life to worry about.......


----------



## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

SadSamIAm said:


> I have been doing these things off and on for 24 years. I get the same response as you do.


Of course you do and the bolded above is why.
This isn`t a game, it`s not a "play", making your wife hot for you is a way of life.




> She takes it as pressure to have sex.


Because it is.
If it was sincere it wouldn`t be "off & on" it`d be all the time whether sex was even a possibility or not.



> She never initiates anything that could be construed as 'foreplay', and if I do it, she feels pressure. If I don't do it, then I am not romantic. There is no pleasing her.


Then there is this possibility as well.
Sometimes it really doesn`t matter what you do.

But still, I wonder, she wasn`t always like this was she?


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If it's objectionable for a wife to feel "pressured" to have sex against her natural inclination doesn't it stand to reason that it's equally objectionable for a wife to make her man feel "pressured" to behave as a sexless, loveless, zombie against his natural inclination? I would think the latter would be far worse. Sex is a universally expected condition of marriage. Abstinence isn't.


----------



## Dr. Rockstar (Mar 23, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> I would think the latter would be far worse. Sex is a universally expected condition of marriage. Abstinence isn't.


No, but it does have a proud and distinguished history among the Lutherans.


----------

