# Why do I feel this way?



## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

I know I might get "hate" responses, but I'm really looking for something else and I will ask you at the end. But here's the background. Throughout our 7 year marriage (no kids), I cheated multiple times on my wife, who I love very much and can't imagine being without her and she says the same. Mostly for only sex: one night stands, asian massage parlors, a few flings that went on for a few months, etc. Also porn. There was one (let's just say Stacy) that we were actually in love with each other, and we had a 22 year history off & on no matter if we had a SO or not, but she was smart enough to stop her behavior a couple of years ago and move on with her life. I felt bad every time, except with Stacy, but continued. No excuse, but sex with my wife has never been the best. The passion and love is there, but the physical way her vagina feels around my penis is not nearly as good as what I am accustomed to. Sorry to be so graphic, but that's my only issue in that department. I've never told her that. I never thought I should since there's nothing she can do about it. Anyway, the point here is to let you know I'm a scumbag, and the type of scumbag I am. She knows nothing about any of this and I'm never going to tell her.

Now, I've always justified my behavior by saying, and actually thinking, "she's probably doing the same thing". At first, we pretty much only hung out together;about 90%. Starting about 2 years ago, We hung out together a lot but we also hung out separately about equally as much. Recently, she suddenly stopped hanging out with her friends. That made me actually suspicious even though most might say I should have been suspicious when she was out with her friends a lot. I NEVER do this, but I did it anyway. 6 weeks ago, I looked through her computer/phone. I saw a thread that was flirtatious with man inviting her to his place, massages, etc. She never went and I know because the day after the supposed meeting, he would ask "what happened" and she would effectively say "something came up". But she never turned down any invitation and she let him know that she was back in town. This was after she and I returned from a vacation. That made me suspicious to look deeper. I found a lot of inappropriate conversations with different men, sent selfies (no nudes), and damning evidence of a 9 month, or more, affair. All this took place from spring 2015 thru January for the most part. Ignoring the other inappropriate communication, I asked her about the affair and she admitted everything except having sex, even when shown the evidence. Sex is very important, but the emotional part is the most important part of it in my opinion anyway. She seems more upset that I looked at her phone than the affair or being caught. But regardless, we've decided to work it out.

Now, here's the strange part. Despite how I thought I'd feel if she did something like this, I lost my mind. My heart rate and blood pressure were dangerously elevated for 2 weeks and I felt a deep depression that I've never before come close to feeling. I was shaking. I felt like I was suffocating. I could concentrate on nothing else. Now, 6 weeks later, I'm still paranoid and distraught although I'm getting better with time.

This is not being said so that someone will feel sorry for me, so don't get me wrong. What I'm asking here is, with all I've done, why the heck does it bother me to this intense level? I don't think it should. She did almost nothing compared to what I've done. I try to control those feelings by thinking about my own infidelities and wrongdoings but it doesn't work. I can't stop thinking about it and when something reminds me of it, I can't keep my mouth shut and I nag her too much with too many questions. That's pissing her off.

One positive thing is, knowing how this feels, I seriously want to work on myself, finally. I've thought about it, but I'm serious now. I don't know how to start, but I'm going to figure something out. I was always so worried about getting caught, but now I'm even more worried about how SHE would FEEL if she caught me. I wouldn't wish these feelings on my worst enemy!

But my big question is, given what I've done, why do I feel so hurt? :wtf:

Any other comments or advice?


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

What goes around comes around. 
That's all I can say right now. 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## happydad (Apr 11, 2016)

Just tell her the truth about your past and have an open relationship if you want to stay together and continue on with getting your tighter women elsewhere. Honesty and openness is the only way to have a healthy relationship.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

Thank you. Honestly, it's not the tightness. It's difficult to explain. Maybe it's texture or something else. Anyway, that doesn't really matter. Thanks, your input is greatly appreciated!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

The words "selfish" and "hypocrite" -- along w/ quite a few others -- spring to mind.

Enjoy. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> but sex with my wife has never been the best. The passion and love is there, but the physical way her vagina feels around my penis is not nearly as good as what I am accustomed to. Sorry to be so graphic, but that's my only issue in that department. I've never told her that. I never thought I should since there's nothing she can do about it.


Don't ever tell her this, but you can do tantric sex which focuses primarily on vaginal strengths etc



> One positive thing is, knowing how this feels, I seriously want to work on myself, finally. I've thought about it, but I'm serious now. I don't know how to start, but I'm going to figure something out. I was always so worried about getting caught, but now I'm even more worried about how SHE would FEEL if she caught me. I wouldn't wish these feelings on my worst enemy!
> 
> But my big question is, given what I've done, why do I feel so hurt? :wtf:
> 
> Any other comments or advice?


Now that you know how it feels to be betrayed are you willing to stop cheating? 


Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

Sorry but I really don't know what to say here.
You feel like this because you were betrayed but yet you have betrayed her more.
Maybe you see what harm you're doing by all your indiscretions...I don't know.
Does she know about all your affairs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@idonthaveaname

When you cheated on your wife "multiple times" (10? 20? 100? More?) it was "Mostly for only sex".

We might call that the "Honey, it was only sex" defence. 

However, when you suspect your wife had a sexual affair one time and the boot is on the other foot, you said: "Sex is very important..."

Now, if sex is not important for you when you have multiple affairs, why is sex important to you when your wife has one affair? :scratchhead:

What's wrong here? Go ask Alice, I think she'll know:-










*Hypocrisy 

Huichelarij

Hinavščina

Hypocrisie

Chinyengo

Pagpapaimbabaw

Rhagrith

Agabagebe*

It's just wrong in *any* language! 

You are lucky you didn't take anything unpleasant back to your wife from a Penicillin Princess.* You didn't, did you?*


What with your lifestyle choice you need to come clean with your wife and both get tested for STDs/HIV.

You don't think her affair was in revenge for your cheating? You know, your cheating on the woman you "love very much" (but not really)?


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Wear a textured condom


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## rzmpf (Mar 11, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> But my big question is, given what I've done, why do I feel so hurt? :wtf:


Typical example of "Quod licet Iovi non licet bovi.". You didn't really think she would cheat, in that case you would have gone for an open relationship or ended it. But many cheaters get paranoid that others behave like they are. 
That's part of the rationalization of your own behaviour to not feel too bad about yourself and when reality hits you are hurt like any one else. Someone who steals will still complain if someone else steals something from them. Just the typical hypocrisy and selfishness many people show when it is about themselves. Your wife probably went through the same process like you did and I bet you would be as pissed off as she is if she snooped through your devices and found out.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I agree with the posters above, but one more thing, do you think your wife didn't already suspect what you were doing? She may not have the evidence but in her gut she knew. Tell her the truth and take whatever comes. 
You are now in a high state of alert, panic, etc because we humans were never meant to live the way you have been living, you were living a double life, pretending to be a good husband while ****ing other women. That kind of thing cannot be sustained. 
Further, you now probably know what you did to your wife as it is happening to you.

1. Start off with openness and transparency, the truth will set you free from what you are experiencing.
2. then both decide whether you want to work on the marriage or not
3. then seek counselling, individual and MC

Incidentally, if you give a damn about your w you will tell her the truth, she is also entitled to know and make decisions about her own future, that is not your right to make those decisions for her.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

idonthaveaname,

You feel this way perhaps because your W developed real feeling for the OM, romantic and sensual even if they never met, perhaps more intense than she ever felt for you. 

Make your complete and detailed confession to your W, allow her access to all your means of communications, hope she forgives you, and then accept her decision one way or the other. If she says no accept that you have made things right with her and have improved yourself by doing so. The reward is your own integrity. 

If you've cheated with married women or with boyfriends make your confession and apologies to those other counter parties you have harmed.

Tamat


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

I wish I could get you to talk to some of my friends, OP. They want to be in relationships. They are afraid of being betrayed so their solution is betray first and any betrayal they receive will not be as painful. I’ve always said that is futile since I’ve seen people in my life in the past react like you did.

I remember this one fella. He was a politician, powerful and err-thang. He had a side woman. After cheating on his wife with her for years he began to find it too troublesome to conceal and deceive. He started making calls to this other woman in front of his wife. She would nag and beg. None worked.

He continued to do it every evening after work. The wife eventually got extremely resentful and decided to mete out some revenge. She slept with a fella she worked with. One night when the husband was on the phone with his mistress the wife blurted out in anger, “I can’t believe you. What kind of man are you, talking to that other woman in front of me like that? You have no respect for me? Eh? That’s why I cheated on you!”

The husband immediately ended the call. He grabbed her by the arm hard, asking if she just said that to hurt him or if it was true. She confessed to him that it was. He lay down on the bed and, I think, he cried for thirty minutes, asking, “Why? Why? Why?”

Obviously, you have no honour, OP. As to why it hurts, well, we should ask you. Why does it hurt? Do you feel like your peaceful home that you could come back to has been tainted? Is it that you can not stand the thought that your wife who was the figure of a good little quiet wife, inviolable has done some wickedness herself? It may be disillusionment you are feeling. You were like the little boy who could go out to be naughty and come back home to “mommy” a good boy. Now you see mommy has a life of her own.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, you feel this way because it's all about you. Serial cheaters are often strongly narcissistic. Since the world revolves around you, and despite your internal justifications that she was probably cheating too, it probably never really occurred to you that she might actually betray you. Your ego wouldn't allow for that actuality. Again, the strongly narcissistic often react with exceptional shock and anger to people who do the same things they, themselves, have been doing to others. Lack of empathy leads to not recognizing, or just not caring, that their own actions can have painful consequences for others. Other people don't truly matter, so their pain isn't truly real. The existence of pain is only really recognized when it happens to the narcissist. 

I'm also guessing that you believe that your little extracurricular activities weren't impacting your marriage or your wife in any way. I would argue that, even if she didn't know you were cheating, it likely was impacting her and the marriage. I never knew my ex-husband was a cheater. Like many of the type, he was exceptionally self-centered and very manipulative, but also smart and funny and charming and widely liked and admired. I knew there was something wrong with my marriage, but I'd been convinced it was all either in my head or my fault. Looking back, and armed with knowledge of his serial cheating, it's pretty clear that he was treating me the way a cheater treats their spouse - gaslighting, irritation, blame shifting, fault-finding, impatience, anger, dishonesty, moving goal-posts, just general crazy-making behavior and emotional manipulation designed to obscure the affair and help the cheater justify it to themselves. So, I'm guessing, OP, that even if your wife didn't know you were cheating, she knew that your marriage was dysfunctional. I'm not saying you are responsible for your wife's infidelity. She owns that 100%. However, you do need to be aware that your cheating (and subsequent justifying behaviors) contributed a great deal to a highly unhealthy marriage and toxic marital dynamic, even if your wife never knew the true source of it. If the two of you want to have a healthy marriage that actually works for both of you, then your cheating is going to have to stop and the two of you are going to have to start from the ground up on building a functional relationship.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> I know I might get "hate" responses, but I'm really looking for something else and I will ask you at the end. But here's the background. Throughout our 7 year marriage (no kids), I cheated multiple times on my wife, who I love very much and can't imagine being without her and she says the same. Mostly for only sex: one night stands, asian massage parlors, a few flings that went on for a few months, etc. Also porn. There was one (let's just say Stacy) that we were actually in love with each other, and we had a 22 year history off & on no matter if we had a SO or not, but she was smart enough to stop her behavior a couple of years ago and move on with her life. I felt bad every time, except with Stacy, but continued. No excuse, but sex with my wife has never been the best. The passion and love is there, but the physical way her vagina feels around my penis is not nearly as good as what I am accustomed to. Sorry to be so graphic, but that's my only issue in that department. I've never told her that. I never thought I should since there's nothing she can do about it. Anyway, the point here is to let you know I'm a scumbag, and the type of scumbag I am. She knows nothing about any of this and I'm never going to tell her.
> 
> Now, I've always justified my behavior by saying, and actually thinking, "she's probably doing the same thing". At first, we pretty much only hung out together;about 90%. Starting about 2 years ago, We hung out together a lot but we also hung out separately about equally as much. Recently, she suddenly stopped hanging out with her friends. That made me actually suspicious even though most might say I should have been suspicious when she was out with her friends a lot. I NEVER do this, but I did it anyway. 6 weeks ago, I looked through her computer/phone. I saw a thread that was flirtatious with man inviting her to his place, massages, etc. She never went and I know because the day after the supposed meeting, he would ask "what happened" and she would effectively say "something came up". But she never turned down any invitation and she let him know that she was back in town. This was after she and I returned from a vacation. That made me suspicious to look deeper. I found a lot of inappropriate conversations with different men, sent selfies (no nudes), and damning evidence of a 9 month, or more, affair. All this took place from spring 2015 thru January for the most part. Ignoring the other inappropriate communication, I asked her about the affair and she admitted everything except having sex, even when shown the evidence. Sex is very important, but the emotional part is the most important part of it in my opinion anyway. She seems more upset that I looked at her phone than the affair or being caught. But regardless, we've decided to work it out.
> 
> ...


Wow you posted this on SI too right? At least here you will get an honest answer.

To be perfectly blunt because you are a severely dysfunctional person. You probably have a very serious personality disorder. You lack empathy and are a very selfish. Being that you are most likely a narcissist It probably bothers you ego more then anything else. I doubt someone like you can feel hurt the way a well adjusted person can. What you feel is probably hurt pride. How dare she do this to you right? 

I hope you guys stay married for a long time. You both deserve each other.


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## Looking2Change (Jul 24, 2016)

Sounds to me like Karma.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

idonthaveaname said:


> There was one (let's just say Stacy) that we were actually in love with each other, and we had a 22 year history off & on no matter if we had a SO or not,


Dude, what? 22yr affair?? Did I get that right??

Anyways, stop living a fake life, if you choose marriage then think if you can really act like a true spouse, if not move on and divorce.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

It's very simple, you thought you had control on your relationship with other women and more importantly you had control with the relationship with your wife....thebuzz kill happen when right under your nose your wife was being like you....and now you feel like your spiraling out of control.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

OK, I'll bite.

There's a scene from one of my favourite movies, "Gumball Rally". The protagonists drive past the cop, Roscoe (who's thinks he's got them pinned) and his massive roadblock, within their rights and doing the speed limit. All he can do is stand there on the side of the overpass above gnashing his teeth as they drive on past.

He looks up at a cloud in the sky in anguished frustration and asks "God why? Why me?"

Now the situation's a little different here, and so's the question. But if we imagine that the cop is you and the roadblock is your obviously massive ego, the answer to your question "Why do I feel this way?" is the same as was given by the cloud in the movie.

"Because you're an a$$hole, Roscoe"


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Ewwww...just ewwwww.

Whatever you are feeling is not an emotion that is honorable, that's for sure. 
Do you want to be a decent human? Come clean, and STOP FREAKING CHEATING!

I doubt that's what you want though. You want a wifey-poo that's going to be fully loyal to you. There are plenty of doormat women out there. Divorce and shack up with one of those women, so you can be available to bang any pu$$y that gets near your amazing manhood. Your a $lut. Change or don't bother complaining. What the he!! are we supposed to say to this thread?

Gross.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> There was one (let's just say Stacy) that we were actually in love with each other, and we had a 22 year history off & on no matter if we had a SO or not, but she was smart enough to stop her behavior a couple of years ago and move on with her life. I felt bad every time, except with Stacy, but continued.


Not quite sure how your wife's supposed loose, odd-textured vagina caused you to 'fall in love' with someone. That's some powerful va-jay-jay, for sure.



> I found a lot of inappropriate conversations with different men, sent selfies (no nudes), and damning evidence of a 9 month, or more, affair. All this took place from spring 2015 thru January for the most part. Ignoring the other inappropriate communication, I asked her about the affair and she admitted everything except having sex, even when shown the evidence.


Hmmm. What do you know. I guess your magic member ain't exactly doing it for _her _anymore than her genitalia is doing it for you. So you guys have something in common.



> Sex is very important, but the emotional part is the most important part of it in my opinion anyway.


You mean how you're so in loooove with Stacy, with the magic, elastic vagina? 



> This is not being said so that someone will feel sorry for me, so don't get me wrong.


LOL. No worries there. 



> What I'm asking here is, with all I've done, why the heck does it bother me to this intense level?


That's probably just your frail little ego not being able to accept that she wasn't sitting at home, crying into her Haagen-Dazs, missing you terribly and thinking of all kinds of ways to spoil you once you came home from frolicking with your latest receptical. But alas, she wasn't. Her attentions were anywhere *but* on you. 

I guess the playa got played.

And if you posted this on SI, I'm sure you got really good, *sound* advice from the Kool-Aid gang - like the over-used "get therapy" (they believe that cures ALL over there), and "remember to breath (sic) and drink water." :rofl::rofl:


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Xenote said:


> It's very simple, you thought you had control on your relationship with other women and more importantly you had control with the relationship with your wife....thebuzz kill happen when right under your nose your wife was being like you....and now you feel like your spiraling out of control.


OP,

The above says it as it is. Your reaction is not different than many men who "talk" or co-received their wives into non monogamy and then when the wife likes it all of a sudden they want to go back to monogamy.

So the questions for you as long as you are looking at yourself
(1) since apparently your wife is clueless as to your activities are you or have you stopped having sex with other women and when was the last time you did it????
(2) when are you heading to IC to figure out what the hell is rowing your boat??
(3) what is your wifes reaction going to be when she finds out what you have been doing??? And I suggest you tell her because you are going to be eventually caught at some point .
(4) what are you going to say if she wants an open marriage?

You've got a lot on your plate here. I don't see any reason to continue to tell you what as jerk you have been because you already know that. The question is what are you going to do.

And while folks who want to help might stop bashing you, I do not think as long as you keep your wife in the dark that you are going to get a lot of sympathy for your distress at her affair.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Not quite sure how your wife's supposed loose, odd-textured vagina caused you to 'fall in love' with someone. That's some powerful va-jay-jay, for sure.


What's really mystifying is how his wife's odd-textured vagina is supposed to have made him cheat, when he's been boffing Stacy, _off and on for 22 years "no matter if we had a SO or not"_, but he's only been married to his wife for 7?!?!

Sounds like he's been cheating with Stacy, and probably others, in every relationship he's had in at least the last 22 years. Wonder what was wrong with all *those* women's vaginas to make him cheat on them? :scratchhead:

:slap:


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

idonthaveaname said:


> Any other comments?


Nasty.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Do you have a small penis?


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> Don't ever tell her this, but you can do tantric sex which focuses primarily on vaginal strengths etc
> 
> Now that you know how it feels to be betrayed are you willing to stop cheating?
> 
> ...


Thanks, I've heard of that but never knew what it was nor researched it. I will find a way to ask her to look into that with me without suggesting something's "wrong" with her.

YESSSS I AM!! Knowing how this feels, I've started working on my mindset with this aspect of my life. I know cheating can be like a drug, and it seems like it is like that for me, but I'm willing to stop and get help doing it. I never thought of it as that bad when it's just sex. Maybe that's why I hurt about her EA, and can get past her not admitting to sex. But really, from reading others' situations, that opinion can go either way for any person. And based on her not admitting it, she might think sex is the worst part. But anyways, I don't want to keep hurting her. I love, like, and care about her too much, which sounds fake, but it's true. I need to start respecting her fully also. In a twisted way, I am trying to channel my hurt into using this as a wake-up call about my own behavior instead of nagging her, hypocritically. I know, from reading the internet obsessively during this past month, that there are people who were in worse situations than us and they got through it in various ways, some disclosed everything and some didn't. I'm trying to figure out the best way for my situation. 

Thank you for your time.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

[


CantBelieveThis said:


> Dude, what? 22yr affair?? Did I get that right??
> 
> Anyways, stop living a fake life, if you choose marriage then think if you can really act like a true spouse, if not move on and divorce.


Not really. Long story short: We met in college, I helped her with schoolwork, she had a boyfriend, we hooked up anyway after spending so much time together, fell in love, she got pregnant by her boyfriend (come to find out after the child was born), we were still in love still messing around, etc. We both are non-believers of leaving someone to be with someone else, which is what we should have done back then, in retrospect. But it was always she had a SO, or I had a SO and we didn't care; or I lived in a different state. IOW, we were never single and in the same locality at the same time. There were times 2 & 3 years went by with no contact at all, but once one of us contacted the other, things were exactly as we left off. This went on over a span of 22 years, irrelevant of our personal relationship statuses. Still the best feeling V I've ever felt (to make it relevant to the topic, and no, she was not my first). I actually think I could call her now and it would be the same since it's been a while since she decided to leave me alone, even if she's married (I don't know if she is or not), not that I'm going to because that's one that I actually felt lucky to not be trying to juggle even though she was hard to get over.

I do think, now that I know how this can really mess somebody up and based on how much I care about her not only as my wife but as a great woman who had a short period of making bad decisions, that I can really act like a true spouse. I all other respects, allowing for imperfections (nobody's perfect) I do act like a true spouse. This is my only serious problem. And I'm going to work on it and seek help if needed.

I'm just confused, and ashamed, as to how I could have the audacity to feel the way I feel about her EA based on my own behavior.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

citygirl4344 said:


> Sorry but I really don't know what to say here.
> You feel like this because you were betrayed but yet you have betrayed her more.
> Maybe you see what harm you're doing by all your indiscretions...I don't know.
> Does she know about all your affairs?


No she does not. I learned of hers first. And, yes, I do see the harm and that's why I'm going to stop, with help if needed. But I'm doing the same thing she was doing, not telling me after she was able to break away from her behavior because she didn't want me to feel how I do. Especially since it was over and she went through her own personal hell and was working on becoming a better wife. Ironically, that's when I became suspicious. There was a period of time that she hung out with her friends more often. But, I thought nothing of it because I trusted her 100% and thought that I was showing love and trust by allowing her to do it. So I did the same thing instead of being bored at the house. My betrayals were not a very often and time consuming thing because there was no emotional aspect. Then she suddenly stopped saying she was just tired of hanging out so much and spending so much money. We enjoyed each others company more again and I was thinking "great" at first. A few months later, I began to get a nagging feeling, thinking "what really happened that made her want to stop hanging with her friends?" It ate at me so badly that I looked at her phone, which I never do, and found some recent flirtatious texts, but nothing I was going to confront her about; just keep a closer eye on her. A few days later, the texts were eating at me, so I went all into all her history about everything and found multiples of this type of communication with different men. Then I found the "real" EA that had started 16 months before and seemed to have ended 9 months before. The inappropriate communication (texts, meeting for drinks once or twice) with different men continued heavily until about 5 months before. Then, it trickled down to the men trying to flirt with her, but she not responding to it. She was still talking to them though, but not putting them in their place as far as setting any boundaries if they were going to be texting each other (other than telling them not to comment on her social media pictures because she's married). This continued up until the day I found out. She says she stopped because she started to feel like it wasn't worth it. Later, I found out he was getting married soon after I found out. Maybe he got engaged and left her. I say that because she had multiple searches in her history, after she says it was over, about him and his now wife. And about the compatibility of their signs, "should I reach out to him or leave it alone", types of searches, so she clearly missed him. But missing him doesn't necessarily mean she's not the one who broke it off. Now I don't know why she stopped. I guess it really doesn't matter. But she feels that I'm a worse person for violating her privacy and betraying her as a human being than she is for betraying me as just a husband.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@idonthaveaname

Just to clarify, is the only reason you cheated in the past is because of your wife's vagina? 

Can you imagine me saying that about my husband? 
Well, I only cheat for the feeling of a better penis! 
Hear how it sounds. 

Is there any other reasons, like you were in love with Stacy back in college and never really got over it? 
There must be an emotional feeling that is lacking in your marriage? 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> @idonthaveaname
> 
> When you cheated on your wife "multiple times" (10? 20? 100? More?) it was "Mostly for only sex".


Counting each sexual episode, probably somewhere between 30 and 40.



> However, when you suspect your wife had a sexual affair one time and the boot is on the other foot, you said: "Sex is very important..."
> 
> Now, if sex is not important for you when you have multiple affairs, why is sex important to you when your wife has one affair? :scratchhead:


Of course it's important, but I'm saying that I've never thought of PA as being nearly as serious as EA. Also, that's not the part I'm really hurting about. I'm more upset about the fact that she didn't admit it after being shown clear evidence, and the emotional part. That may be why I'm able to pretty much get past the physical aspect, even though I know about it. Through reading the forums, I have learned that different people put different weights on these aspects of As. Also, based on the fact that she won't admit it, I think she may lean toward the side of thinking a PA is worse than an EA, opposite from my thinking. And that's evident also because she keeps saying "nothing happened anyway. It almost did but it didn't." I don't believe her, but that's not the point I'm making here. So basically I've learned that to some people EA may not mean as much and vice versa, like me.




> You are lucky you didn't take anything unpleasant back to your wife from a Penicillin Princess.* You didn't, did you?*
> 
> You don't think her affair was in revenge for your cheating? You know, your cheating on the woman you "love very much" (but not really)?


Luckily no, she gets tested multiple times a year for different medical reasons and I just recently got tested. She doesn't know. However, she is the type of person who is suspicious about pretty much everything in life, so she does question things sometimes. But knowing she's just that type of person, it's easy to get around that, because also she knows shes that type. Yes, I expected that, but I don't know any other way to explain it because I really do love, like, and care about her in every way except one this specific behavior of mine that I'm working on fixing. It's like it had nothing whatsoever to do with how I felt about my wife as far as love is concerned. It was only a physical need/want that I had.

Thanks for your time and input. I'm not trying to go against anything you said. I'm just clarifying some things.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> @idonthaveaname
> 
> Just to clarify, is the only reason you cheated in the past is because of your wife's vagina?
> 
> ...


I know it's ridiculous, after having thought about it so deeply in these past few weeks. I knew this all along, but I thought it was ridiculous and superficial then and that it would come to pass. I never imagined it becoming so important to me and I don't really know why it is...

Yes, I was still in love with Stacy for a long time and it just so happens that she's also the woman who felt physically the best ever for me. I never told her that thinking she would use that info for evil. lol. But it felt that way before I was in love with her, so that's not the reason it feels that way. And she was not my first, so it's not that either. The only way I can come close to explaining it is like our genitals were soul mates. I don't know if I was the best ever for her, but she very very much enjoyed it also. I was still in love with her when I married, but I would think if that was the sole reason for my cheating, she would be the only AP I've had. My wife is not really as affectionate as I'd like, but I've told her that for years. I didn't care if these other women were affectionate or not. Stacy, of course, was, but the others, I just pretty much used for the physical feeling. There were a few that came close to that physical feeling of Stacy, and those are the few that I hooked multiples of times with. If they didn't feel close to that, I didn't cheat with them anymore (exception; one didn't feel THAT way, but had this amazingly great body that you only see on those "Top 10 Best Body" types of sites and she kind of felt THAT way to my hands alone, but like I said that's an exception, most were just averagely beautiful women). It was that simple. So I can't think of much else as a reason.

I just know I need to stop altogether. But thanks for asking me this question because it's getting me to try to figure out if there are any other reasons for my behavior.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> I know I might get "hate" responses, but I'm really looking for something else and I will ask you at the end. But here's the background. Throughout our 7 year marriage (no kids), I cheated multiple times on my wife, who I love very much and can't imagine being without her and she says the same. Mostly for only sex: one night stands, asian massage parlors, a few flings that went on for a few months, etc. Also porn. There was one (let's just say Stacy) that we were actually in love with each other, and we had a 22 year history off & on no matter if we had a SO or not, but she was smart enough to stop her behavior a couple of years ago and move on with her life. I felt bad every time, except with Stacy, but continued. No excuse, but sex with my wife has never been the best. The passion and love is there, but the physical way her vagina feels around my penis is not nearly as good as what I am accustomed to. Sorry to be so graphic, but that's my only issue in that department. I've never told her that. I never thought I should since there's nothing she can do about it. Anyway, the point here is to let you know I'm a scumbag, and the type of scumbag I am. She knows nothing about any of this and I'm never going to tell her.
> 
> Now, I've always justified my behavior by saying, and actually thinking, "she's probably doing the same thing". At first, we pretty much only hung out together;about 90%. Starting about 2 years ago, We hung out together a lot but we also hung out separately about equally as much. Recently, she suddenly stopped hanging out with her friends. That made me actually suspicious even though most might say I should have been suspicious when she was out with her friends a lot. I NEVER do this, but I did it anyway. 6 weeks ago, I looked through her computer/phone. I saw a thread that was flirtatious with man inviting her to his place, massages, etc. She never went and I know because the day after the supposed meeting, he would ask "what happened" and she would effectively say "something came up". But she never turned down any invitation and she let him know that she was back in town. This was after she and I returned from a vacation. That made me suspicious to look deeper. I found a lot of inappropriate conversations with different men, sent selfies (no nudes), and damning evidence of a 9 month, or more, affair. All this took place from spring 2015 thru January for the most part. Ignoring the other inappropriate communication, I asked her about the affair and she admitted everything except having sex, even when shown the evidence. Sex is very important, but the emotional part is the most important part of it in my opinion anyway. She seems more upset that I looked at her phone than the affair or being caught. But regardless, we've decided to work it out.
> 
> ...


It hurts you and bothers you so much despite the fact that you've done far worse things repeatedly because you're a narcissist, selfish and unkind. You put your feelings, wants and desires above all else but expect others to put your feelings, wants and desires above all else as well.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Do you have a small penis?


Or that.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Im feeling a bit psychic, and i think your D-day is around the corner. Little tip.... Don't deny, don't lie, and DO NOT TRICKLE TRUTH HER. When she finds out my suggestion is spill EVERYTHING. Get ready to make a time line, because regardless of her affair, YOURS IS WORSE and she may chose to leave you. If you want a chance at all, be ready and sing like a canary. Drop on your knees... You don't deserve her love because you DONT KNOW WHAT LOVE IS... Love is not affairs or sexual gratification over SMALL things like a different feeling vagina... (I think this is bonkers) That is self fulfilling SELFISH actions. Humans at heart are selfish so this is not the end of the world. But you need to get some perspective here. You were/are not a man to be trusted, or to be loved. Your actions show a lack of empathy or respect and affection for your wife. In fact it implies the latter.... 

Take a few days and dwell on this. 

You can chose to do different. To be different. Be a better man. Because the one you are telling us of does not deserve family, home and hearth with a woman... 

Yes she was cheating. I am sorry you are hurt, but my money is on the fact that she knew in her gut. Does not excuse her actions but knowing her husband which you painted not the prettiest picture, i would feel no honor or respect enough to stay faithful. 

Change...Change now.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Wear a textured condom


Texture! That might be the word I'm looking for. However, I thought textured condoms only felt good to women (which I would be more than willing to do for her if she wanted) but didn't affect the feeling for a man. I'm guessing I'm wrong for thinking that since you mentioned it.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Do you have a small penis?


I don't really know what to compare it to, but not according to her (and past others). Most of the time, when I go deep, she says it's too much. But she's always said she can't deal with small penises and that one of the reasons she married me is because mine is big and able to more than satisfy her.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

Xenote said:


> It's very simple, you thought you had control on your relationship with other women and more importantly you had control with the relationship with your wife....thebuzz kill happen when right under your nose your wife was being like you....and now you feel like your spiraling out of control.


I never thought of it that way. That is something for me to think about. Thanks.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I think the textured condom might "fill in the gaps". Cannot hurt to try. Buy the most textured one. 

Buy a fleshlight. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/257250-has-anyone-used-fleshlight.html


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

Spicy said:


> Ewwww...just ewwwww.
> 
> Whatever you are feeling is not an emotion that is honorable, that's for sure.
> Do you want to be a decent human? Come clean, and STOP FREAKING CHEATING!
> ...


Thanks for your input and time. I do want to stop and I do not want a doormat wife. Yes I want a "wifey-poo" that's going to be fully loyal to me, everyone does. But I realize I haven't deserved that. I have decided that I'm going to put all my energy into stopping cheating. The way I feel helped me realize how serious this is and it brought me to my decision that I don't want to put this type of hurt on anyone else. Thinking deeper about it and reading your helpful comments has gotten me to realize the real reasons, besides the previous sentence, why I need to stop and I'm very ashamed of myself right now, as I should be. I need this shame to help motivate me, so I honestly love your comment because it hurts to think of myself in the ways you describe. But it's true and I need to see and own that. If she leaves me when I tell her, I want to be clean IF I ever meet someone else so wonderful. If she stays, I want to be 120% to her in every way and am now willing to put forth that effort to reach that impossible level. That means forever trying to get better even when I'm the best I can be. 

I know it sounds strange, but again, I LOVE, LIKE AND CARE about my wife and I've always held this woman on a pedestal so high that it's unimaginable. She made a human error that shattered me to pieces and even though that pedestal came down a lower (probably to a more realistic human level), still nothing else in my life can reach it. I understand how it looks, but no one can tell me I don't love my wife. I need to communicate better with her, but I do everything else great for her, in her words. She knows I love her. This was like it had nothing whatsoever about how I felt about my wife and what I do to show her my love and that's probably why it's so hard for me to understand. Talking to her about her reasons I've learned some of the things I've said and done to show love, care, and trust were interpreted by her in the opposite way than intended. That's the communication I'm talking about and I admit I'm a bit unorthodox in my expressions sometimes.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> I know it sounds strange, but again, I LOVE, LIKE AND CARE about my wife and I've always held this woman on a pedestal so high that it's unimaginable.


Either you are being completely dishonest with us AND yourself, or you are confused on the definitions of those 3 words.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Why do you feel this way? That's an easy answer. You're human. Look, I am also a serial cheater. Just because you are one doesn't mean that you don't care if your spouse cheats on you. Is it hypocritical...yes...but that doesn't you wouldn't have the same reaction. Everyone has lied about something at some point, but none of us is okay with being lied to. Even a thief would be upset about getting robbed. Assuming you are a serial like me, you probably understand all too well that women are better at this than us guys. Are you sure this is her first rodeo? If you were so busy focusing on having your own fun, you may not have noticed. In any case I think being honest at this point is your best bet. I don't think you'll change, so you might as well be open and honest about who and what you are. Not all relationships end when spouses come clean, she might know more than you think.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> Why do you feel this way? That's an easy answer. You're human. Look, I am also a serial cheater. Just because you are one doesn't mean that you don't care if your spouse cheats on you. Is it hypocritical...yes...but that doesn't you wouldn't have the same reaction. Everyone has lied about something at some point, but none of us is okay with being lied to. Even a thief would be upset about getting robbed. Assuming you are a serial like me, you probably understand all too well that women are better at this than us guys. Are you sure this is her first rodeo? If you were so busy focusing on having your own fun, you may not have noticed. In any case I think being honest at this point is your best bet. I don't think you'll change, so you might as well be open and honest about who and what you are. Not all relationships end when spouses come clean, she might know more than you think.


Nah. Let's not assign blame for such abhorrent behaviour to "being human".


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

moth-into-flame said:


> Nah. Let's not assign blame for such abhorrent behaviour to "being human".


Cheating is abhorrent, and it is a behavior that is very human based on how frequently it occurs. Like it or not. Sometimes the truth is ugly.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

idonthaveaname said:


> What I'm asking here is, with all I've done, why the heck does it bother me to this intense level?


Because you have lived a selfish, self-absorbed life. It's all you know. You probably only do things if they benefit you in some way. It's who you are. Which is how you justified all the cheating, porn, etc. - your job to make you happy. You were happily married to her, even telling yourself you loved her (in your small-heart way), because, well, she continued to accept you and your self-absorbed way and she continued to be there for you which ALLOWED you to do so. 

So the first time you realize she's not a numb, sub-human creature put here to make sure you are happy, your first instinct is to scramble to put the status quo back in place so you can continue to be taken care of. Only now, you realize she DOES have a mind, a brain, feelings, and needs. Suddenly, you realize you really AREN'T in control. And that scares the crap out of you. Because if you aren't really in control, if other people really can make up their own minds, how will you be able to continue to be happy?

Note: The answer to that question is that you have to actually interact with people, care about people, and - gasp! - sometimes put people ahead of you. That's how it works. You give, you get. Golden Rule and all that. 

Are you up for it?


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> Cheating is abhorrent, and it is a behavior that is very human based on how frequently it occurs. Like it or not. Sometimes the truth is ugly.


There are just as many people who never cheat, hopefully more. I think it would be more accurate to say a "certain type of human". I don't appreciate being lumped in with those who engage in infidelity. I'm human, but I'm no cheater.

Telling someone they did something horrible, cruel and deceitful over and over again simply because "you're only human" is disingenuous and is clearly minimizing and removing the blame. Typical cheater rationale.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

moth-into-flame said:


> There are just as many people who never cheat, hopefully more. I think it would be more accurate to say a "certain type of human". I don't appreciate being lumped in with those who engage in infidelity. I'm human, but I'm no cheater.
> 
> Telling someone they did something horrible, cruel and deceitful over and over again simply because "you're only human" is disingenuous and is clearly minimizing and removing the blame. Typical cheater rationale.


You misunderstand me. I am not justifying cheating at all. I'm just saying that cheaters will always react the same to being cheated on.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Do you feel that you have a sex addiction? Not that it's an excuse, but your actions seem...compulsive. Impulsive. Similar to someone addicted to something.

Having said this, honestly, I don't think you should be married, because you don't take it seriously.

To your original question, why do you feel this way? My guess is that she was having an emotional affair(s) and you called your affairs ''just sex,'' thus meaningless. You imagine your wife falling in love with these other men, because maybe that was a possibility. Emotional affairs without sex, would be hard to get past, because your spouse is giving someone else their heart.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

OP, you remind me so much of my H. He cheated for years and when I originally found out, he admitted to only one affair and, like you but for a different reason, he blamed me. Said he was sorry once and then went on as if nothing had happened. We didn't have sex for a long time after that and he didn't seem to care at all, he even started sleeping on the couch in the basement, assuming that I was fine with our marriage as it was.
In other words, he took it for granted I would always be there. It wasn't until he discovered that I was having an EA, that he decided he was wildly in love with me again and didn't want to lose me. It might have even worked, even though by that time I had emotionally detached from him and was very much into my EA partner. My H spied on me like you, reading all the emails and text messages and it made him crazy. 
Everything finally came out in MC, all the affairs he had and his lying and I was enraged, hurt, and appalled at his compete hypocrisy. All the while he was laying on the guilt for what I had done he KNEW what he had done. 
Two years later, we are still in a state of limbo over it, though things are better. I feel like his lying was worse than the cheating as he took away years of my being able to make an informed decision about my life. 
That is what you are doing to your wife. She deserves to know the truth of her marriage. You are taking away her choice of how to live her life and with whom. That is the very essence of respect that one adult owes another. Tell her the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Oh, and be damn sure you get tested for STDs. My H other gift to me was the HPV virus. Luckily, it wasn't the cancer causing strain.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

One more thing...my H told me they when he first realized what I was up to, he tried to view it like, what's good good for the goose is good for the gander. But he became consumed with jealousy and hurt and proceeded to do everything he could to stop the affair and win me back. I understood it on one level, so I do understand a little of what you feel also. But, with my H, I know some of it was that he felt like I was his property and no man was gonna take what was his. Do you see this in your own situation?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> I LOVE, LIKE AND CARE


What you call love, like and care are very different things then what other people call it. Think of yourself as a kind of a vampire.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

idonthaveaname said:


> This is my only serious problem. And I'm going to work on it and seek help if needed.
> 
> I'm just confused, and ashamed, as to how I could have the audacity to feel the way I feel about her EA based on my own behavior.


This is your only serious problem? haha That's like saying to someone that just had a heart attack that they are perfectly healthy, except for their heart. 

You should be ashamed. That's a good thing. You are seeing and facing what you are truly like inside. It's pretty dark and ugly in there. Now clean it up. Tell your wife the truth. See if she wants to work with you or not. Get some help from a competent therapist. You have to go to a few until you find a good one.

In answer to your question of why you feel this way. It's because you are selfish. You see your relationship with your wife as something that stands alone and benefit you greatly. Now that you realize she has not been exclusively yours, you are jealous. That's perfectly normal, but for someone who's doing the same thing, it's also selfish and hypocritical.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> You misunderstand me. I am not justifying cheating at all. I'm just saying that cheaters will always react the same to being cheated on.


Well, that's true, and I find it kind of hilarious (in a tragically pathetic way). My exww cheated on me a lot, then left and told me "it's over - I'm doing you a favor, go live your life". And she went to her "soulmate" who she had been cheating with. So I finally relented and accepted the marriage was over and started seeing other people. When she found out I slept with someone, she absolutely lost her **** - way more than I did when I found out she was cheating on me - and I wasn't even cheating on her - she had left and _told me_ to move on. We were separated when I first slept with another woman. She was livid - like I mean her head was going to explode. Then she wanted me back. LOL. Does. Not. Compute. Wacky bunch, cheaters.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

moth-into-flame said:


> Well, that's true, and I find it kind of hilarious (in a tragically pathetic way). My exww cheated on me a lot, then left and told me "it's over - I'm doing you a favor, go live your life". And she went to her "soulmate" who she had been cheating with. So I finally relented and accepted the marriage was over and started seeing other people. When she found out I slept with someone, she absolutely lost her **** - way more than I did when I found out she was cheating on me - and I wasn't even cheating on her - she had left and _told me_ to move on. We were separated when I first slept with another woman. She was livid - like I mean her head was going to explode. Then she wanted me back. LOL. Does. Not. Compute. Wacky bunch, cheaters.


Vampire.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Do you feel that you have a sex addiction? Not that it's an excuse, but your actions seem...compulsive. Impulsive. Similar to someone addicted to something.


She has complained from time to time saying the amount of sex I want is not normal. But I never took it seriously. I took it as a woman being a woman and a man being a man. Men try to have sex and women decide when to give it to them. I just always thought that was how it worked and never thought about it since I really only have myself to compare myself with on that level. I'm glad you brought that up though. I will ask my IC about that when I get into my appointment. Thanks




> Having said this, honestly, I don't think you should be married, because you don't take it seriously.
> 
> To your original question, why do you feel this way? My guess is that she was having an emotional affair(s) and you called your affairs ''just sex,'' thus meaningless. You imagine your wife falling in love with these other men, because maybe that was a possibility. Emotional affairs without sex, would be hard to get past, because your spouse is giving someone else their heart.


I think that pretty much describes it and reminds me of what I told her. "If you just had a one night stand, or if it was somebody you called every couple of months and had hotel sex with, sure I would be upset, but you were in a relationship complete with gifts, travel, etc. That's a whole different level!" I think you might be right. 

As to her, I think she feels the opposite, having said, "It's been over for months, and nothing even happened anyway! I realized it wasn't worth it and stopped it. Yes, it was wrong and dangerous to lie about where I was, but nothing happened. It's not that serious!" That on top of admitting "everything" except for the sexual aspect.

So I guess in a sense we both did what we did knowing it was wrong, but not thinking it to be THAT serious. Although, I do think mine has a more extreme nature to it due to the extent of it. 

Thank you.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

blahfridge said:


> OP, you remind me so much of my H. He cheated for years and when I originally found out, he admitted to only one affair and, like you but for a different reason, he blamed me. Said he was sorry once and then went on as if nothing had happened. We didn't have sex for a long time after that and he didn't seem to care at all, he even started sleeping on the couch in the basement, assuming that I was fine with our marriage as it was.
> In other words, he took it for granted I would always be there. It wasn't until he discovered that I was having an EA, that he decided he was wildly in love with me again and didn't want to lose me. It might have even worked, even though by that time I had emotionally detached from him and was very much into my EA partner. My H spied on me like you, reading all the emails and text messages and it made him crazy.
> Everything finally came out in MC, all the affairs he had and his lying and I was enraged, hurt, and appalled at his compete hypocrisy. All the while he was laying on the guilt for what I had done he KNEW what he had done.
> Two years later, we are still in a state of limbo over it, though things are better. I feel like his lying was worse than the cheating as he took away years of my being able to make an informed decision about my life.
> ...


Wow, thank you for this. Our situations are very similar. I'm glad to hear things are better for you. 

I also tried to view things the goose/gander way, but it didn't work with me either. But my wife views herself betraying me by EA vs me "invading her inner thoughts" by spying in a goose/gander sense and wants to call it even, since she had already gotten over her EA before I even found out. That seems ridiculous to me, but I'm ridiculous in a lot of ways, so I don't really know if it's ridiculous or not. She says she would rather that I had caught her red handed than spying on her and violating her "right to her own thoughts" in an "underhanded" way. For other reasons, I'm glad I didn't.

As far as property, I've never felt that way about another person. In fact, I probably am too extreme in the other direction because that's actually part of her reasoning (not all the reasons) that led her to her A. She didn't think I cared about her because I didn't act possessive enough. For example, she says I allowed (I don't even like using the word "allowed" when talking about another adult) her too much freedom by allowing her to hang out or travel with friends too much, and allowed her to leave the house dressed too sexy when I'm not with her, so she thought I didn't care. Or if we are out together, but happen to be walking around separately and guys stare her up & down or try to engage her in conversation, she says I act like I don't care. To me, it wasn't about caring. I just feel that if I think my wife is attractive, why would other men not think that? It's not a big deal and seems to me like validation that I made a great choice. I thought I was showing love in the sense that I could trust her with her own judgment and not try to control her. But what she actually took from my behavior is that I allowed her too much opportunity and didn't show that I cared.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

idonthaveaname said:


> I don't really know what to compare it to, but not according to her (and past others). Most of the time, when I go deep, she says it's too much. But she's always said she can't deal with small penises and that one of the reasons she married me is because mine is big and able to more than satisfy her.


So if you are big....

She must be cavernous. Damn....

I'm thinking you need tight twats because you have conditioned your penis from too much jacking off. Am I wrong? Do you beat off to a lot of porn?


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

idonthaveaname said:


> Wow, thank you for this. Our situations are very similar. I'm glad to hear things are better for you.
> 
> I also tried to view things the goose/gander way, but it didn't work with me either. But my wife views herself betraying me by EA vs me "invading her inner thoughts" by spying in a goose/gander sense and wants to call it even, since she had already gotten over her EA before I even found out. That seems ridiculous to me, but I'm ridiculous in a lot of ways, so I don't really know if it's ridiculous or not. She says she would rather that I had caught her red handed than spying on her and violating her "right to her own thoughts" in an "underhanded" way. For other reasons, I'm glad I didn't.
> 
> As far as property, I've never felt that way about another person. In fact, I probably am too extreme in the other direction because that's actually part of her reasoning (not all the reasons) that led her to her A. She didn't think I cared about her because I didn't act possessive enough. For example, she says I allowed (I don't even like using the word "allowed" when talking about another adult) her too much freedom by allowing her to hang out or travel with friends too much, and allowed her to leave the house dressed too sexy when I'm not with her, so she thought I didn't care. Or if we are out together, but happen to be walking around separately and guys stare her up & down or try to engage her in conversation, she says I act like I don't care. To me, it wasn't about caring. I just feel that if I think my wife is attractive, why would other men not think that? It's not a big deal and seems to me like validation that I made a great choice. I thought I was showing love in the sense that I could trust her with her own judgment and not try to control her. But what she actually took from my behavior is that I allowed her too much opportunity and didn't show that I cared.


I noticed that you skipped right past my point that you should tell her truth. Again, by not giving her the truth of her own life, you are showing zero respect to a person you claim to love. You only want your own life to be easier by "sparing her the pain" of knowing about your cheating. At the same time, she is probably wracked by guilt over what she did to you, even though she is, rightfully, upset over your invasion of her privacy. I felt the same way as your wife. My H put a key logger on both my personal laptop and the home computer for over a year. He read not only my emails, including work emails, but also my journal entries, poems that I wrote, and even my browsing history. I was appalled and it took me almost a year before I felt comfortable writing personal comments on the computer or on my phone, which he also hacked. It felt almost like I had PTSD whenever I tried to type something. So I very much understand your wife's attitude about you "invading her inner thoughts." 

And yet, what she wants to do is "call it even" because she thinks that's all there is to it - she had an EA and you spied on her. What you are doing is trying to manipulate the situation to your benefit, so that you don't have to deal with the fall out from your own cheating. It's cowardly and dangerous. Trust me, she will more than likely find out someday and that betrayal will be much worse to her than your betrayal of monogamy. All you are focused on is how hurt and upset you are over her EA. I know you can see the hypocrisy of that, but can't you also see how unfair and disrespectful it is to your wife?


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> So if you are big....
> 
> She must be cavernous. Damn....
> 
> I'm thinking you need tight twats because you have conditioned your penis from too much jacking off. Am I wrong? Do you beat off to a lot of porn?


Not the absolute tightest ever, but I think she's tight enough. I'm thinking it's the texture. Yesterday, we had sex and I was consciously trying to notice exactly why I think the physical feeling in inferior to me in comparison to what I can remember about the "best" ones I've encountered. (it felt weird to think of someone else while with my wife, but I was trying to figure this out) I'm thinking maybe it's too smooth without very much texture. Sort of like the difference between a pane of smooth window glass and a washboard. Is that even possible?

For me, porn comes and goes in cycles. It might be heavy for a month and forgotten about for 4 months, for example.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your initial question is relatively easy to answer. There is a difference between being the betrayer and being the betrayed. Being one does not prepare you for being the other. Her trust was in you, yours was in her. Shattering her trust did not cause you angst, her shattering yours did.

We go through life with all kinds of ideas and expectations but most importantly, to most of us, is the feeling of being cared for and held apart from the rest of the world by someone we value, whether we are mindful that we value them so highly or not.

In your mind you were very valuable in your wife's eyes, more so than in your own. Now you know you were not, that is devastating.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

blahfridge said:


> I noticed that you skipped right past my point that you should tell her truth. Again, by not giving her the truth of her own life, you are showing zero respect to a person you claim to love. You only want your own life to be easier by "sparing her the pain" of knowing about your cheating. At the same time, she is probably wracked by guilt over what she did to you, even though she is, rightfully, upset over your invasion of her privacy. I felt the same way as your wife. My H put a key logger on both my personal laptop and the home computer for over a year. He read not only my emails, including work emails, but also my journal entries, poems that I wrote, and even my browsing history. I was appalled and it took me almost a year before I felt comfortable writing personal comments on the computer or on my phone, which he also hacked. It felt almost like I had PTSD whenever I tried to type something. So I very much understand your wife's attitude about you "invading her inner thoughts."
> 
> And yet, what she wants to do is "call it even" because she thinks that's all there is to it - she had an EA and you spied on her. What you are doing is trying to manipulate the situation to your benefit, so that you don't have to deal with the fall out from your own cheating. It's cowardly and dangerous. Trust me, she will more than likely find out someday and that betrayal will be much worse to her than your betrayal of monogamy. All you are focused on is how hurt and upset you are over her EA. I know you can see the hypocrisy of that, but can't you also see how unfair and disrespectful it is to your wife?


Yes, I understand the privacy thing too, and I feel the same way. And it's not something I've ever done. For some reason, I couldn't resist this time. But it's just that in this situation, and I could be wrong, I think that it should hold less weight than it normally would. But that could be similar to my opinion that EA is much worse than PA, and it seems to be vice versa in her opinion. And she has said that she doesn't feel like she has zero privacy now and doesn't feel like anything is hers anymore; phone, computer, purse, mind. So I'll try to be more open minded to her feelings on that because that would be a crappy feeling. Thanks.

My apologies for forgetting to address that. I do want to tell her the truth. But I want to have at least one real IC session and discuss some things in IC before I do that. I have two IC preliminary appointments set up now and I'm going to choose the one I think will be the best. But one thing I hadn't considered is if my IC should be male or female. Do you have an opinion about that, or does it not matter?


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

idonthaveaname said:


> Yes, I understand the privacy thing too, and I feel the same way. And it's not something I've ever done. For some reason, I couldn't resist this time. But it's just that in this situation, and I could be wrong, I think that it should hold less weight than it normally would. But that could be similar to my opinion that EA is much worse than PA, and it seems to be vice versa in her opinion. And she has said that she doesn't feel like she has zero privacy now and doesn't feel like anything is hers anymore; phone, computer, purse, mind. So I'll try to be more open minded to her feelings on that because that would be a crappy feeling. Thanks.
> 
> My apologies for forgetting to address that. I do want to tell her the truth. But I want to have at least one real IC session and discuss some things in IC before I do that. I have two IC preliminary appointments set up now and I'm going to choose the one I think will be the best. But one thing I hadn't considered is if my IC should be male or female. Do you have an opinion about that, or does it not matter?


No, I don't think it matters whether you choose a male or female. The important thing is for you to feel comfortable with the person AND that you pick someone that will tell you the truth and urge you to do the right thing and tell your wife the truth. I am suspicious of your insistence on IC before you tell your wife about your cheating. What are you waiting for, someone to give you permission? Maybe you are looking for another way out and some therapists will give it to you. They'll tell you that it's pointless to tell her, that you should just commit to being faithful from here on out. My H was in IC for almost a year during my EA, while at the same time he was spying on me. He told me later that his counselor told him not to tell me about his affairs because they were over. I wish I could get her license revoked.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No. Someone to talk him out of it.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

blahfridge said:


> No, I don't think it matters whether you choose a male or female. The important thing is for you to feel comfortable with the person AND that you pick someone that will tell you the truth and urge you to do the right thing and tell your wife the truth. I am suspicious of your insistence on IC before you tell your wife about your cheating. What are you waiting for, someone to give you permission? Maybe you are looking for another way out and some therapists will give it to you. They'll tell you that it's pointless to tell her, that you should just commit to being faithful from here on out. My H was in IC for almost a year during my EA, while at the same time he was spying on me. He told me later that his counselor told him not to tell me about his affairs because they were over. I wish I could get her license revoked.


Wow, that's not what I was expecting from IC. That sounds strange that they would say not to tell the truth. Now I'm suspicious of IC itself. I've never been to any type of IC, but I figured they would at least help steer me in the right direction. You're saying they might steer me not to be truthful? That's part of the whole reason I joined here and am seeking IC. I want to be encouraged to do the right thing. I'm not looking for an alternative way out; I'm looking for someone I can talk to when I need support, encouragement, and help with steering myself in a good direction since I have no one to talk to. Maybe I'm thinking IC is something that it isn't?


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> Wow, that's not what I was expecting from IC. That sounds strange that they would say not to tell the truth. Now I'm suspicious of IC itself. I've never been to any type of IC, but I figured they would at least help steer me in the right direction. You're saying they might steer me not to be truthful? That's part of the whole reason I joined here and am seeking IC. I want to be encouraged to do the right thing. I'm not looking for an alternative way out; I'm looking for someone I can talk to when I need support, encouragement, and help with steering myself in a good direction since I have no one to talk to. Maybe I'm thinking IC is something that it isn't?



You want to be steered into the right direction. Here is some advice, FREE OF CHARGE, it echoes many others advice. 

Take today, and tomorrow for yourself. Write out what you need to confess, what YOU NEED TO EXPRESS. Tell your wife that you and her need to be open. I feel your wife and you need to be on the same page. Divorce or reconciliation you NEED TO COME CLEAN, because IF she finds out about YOUR past you are toast. You have reacted negatively to her affair, (understandable) but in comparison to yours she will not feel you are in the right. You want to be able to express your feelings about her affair allow her the right to express her feelings about yours. 

You may break up, you may divorce, but i guarantee you that you have a better chance at saving the marriage and have a possibility of a GREAT marriage if YOU DO THE WORK. her too. But you can't know this fact until you confess. Confession is going to go smoother than a D-day. If she discovers on her own what you have done, i don't think she could ever forgive you for it, or your reaction to her EA. Please confess. you truly have a better chance if you be honest with her, with your confusion on your reaction confusion on how you could disrespect her so bad. Empathy on what she may have been feeling and open your heart to her pain and suffering. Maybe she will be open to your own pain. 

The ball is in your court. If you do the right thing it will work out better than if you keep choosing the wrong thing. 

And you do NOT need IC to do that. What you could use the IC for is dealing with the fall out of being honest. It is the right thing, but it will not be easy. 

I can offer you no promises that it will end well. But it will end better than if you stay quiet.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IC can do a lot of different things for you, and they can act in many different ways. After all, they're just humans. But they have gone through many years of learning and training. You just have to be honest with them. And be honest about what you're looking to get out of seeing them.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

I knew a police officer through a friend that had a similar story. He was married, screwed around, bragged about it too me, low and behold his wife stepped out on him and it destroyed him too. Judging by your history I would not doubt that you may have a sexual disorder or a personality disorder. I am not saying this to be insulting but to be factual. Your constant inability to remain loyal, justification of infideltiy, and inability to reconcile how bad your behavioral history is to hers fits a pattern. If you don't see and therapist and really open up and be honest you will have no hope of truly being in relationship. I am not going to attempt to diagnose you cause i am not certified to. But I can say that your behavior points to needing to really seek counciling. You are going to have to be honest at some point in your life with the other person in your life. If you are not willing to do that then end the marriage and focus on getting yourself into a place where you can have a real relationship because you don't have a real relationship now.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

threelittlestars said:


> You want to be steered into the right direction. Here is some advice, FREE OF CHARGE, it echoes many others advice.
> 
> Take today, and tomorrow for yourself. Write out what you need to confess, what YOU NEED TO EXPRESS. Tell your wife that you and her need to be open. I feel your wife and you need to be on the same page. Divorce or reconciliation you NEED TO COME CLEAN, because IF she finds out about YOUR past you are toast. You have reacted negatively to her affair, (understandable) but in comparison to yours she will not feel you are in the right. You want to be able to express your feelings about her affair allow her the right to express her feelings about yours.
> 
> ...


THIS! 
Remember you cannot build or restore a broken relationship/marriage on a foundation of lies and that is what you want to do. Why? because your discomfort at confronting the reality of your marriage and your own behaviour far outweighs the priority you put on the marriage. 
Why is that? You say you love your wife, no you don't.

Therefore if you are not willing to do the right thing, divorce already and stop wasting everyone's time.


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## xMadame (Sep 1, 2016)

I skipped from page 1 to 4 because I was like Im gonna puke.

Good for her!






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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

MrsAldi said:


> *What goes around comes around.*
> That's all I can say right now.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


This was going to be my post, word for word.


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## justtrying10 (Jul 30, 2016)

Wow!! all the responses you got is pretty much what you deep down thought you would get, and of course, there´s really no other way to put it. I agree with those who mention narcissism and even though what you have done is wrong and has hurted the person who chose to share life with you it doesn´t mean that you can´t do anything to make up for a better and healthier life. 
Your wife deserves the right to know and to make a second choice on whether she wants to stay with you or not after knowing the truth, also telling her the truth will get you down to a level of empathy for her and her actions. It will also give you freedom and that feeling of betrayal will go away, I bet you are also feeling fooled, because you never thought she would do something like this. 
People act on a way for a reason and you should search for a psychologist that can help you understand the why of your actions because unless you know why you are the way you are you wont be fully conscious of your actions.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I think your wife deserves to know for how long you've been risking her health.

It's likely that she either found out the truth about your extra curricular activities or she had a strong gut feeling. You can only direct your emotional energies in so many directions and if she wasn't getting the lions share (which likely she wasn't for a long time) then she's going to know you're not all in. 

So you say you love her. I disagree wholeheartedly. A person that loves you would never risk your health in the manner you did... For years.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

idonthaveaname said:


> Wow, that's not what I was expecting from IC. That sounds strange that they would say not to tell the truth. Now I'm suspicious of IC itself. I've never been to any type of IC, but I figured they would at least help steer me in the right direction. You're saying they might steer me not to be truthful? That's part of the whole reason I joined here and am seeking IC. I want to be encouraged to do the right thing. I'm not looking for an alternative way out; I'm looking for someone I can talk to when I need support, encouragement, and help with steering myself in a good direction since I have no one to talk to. Maybe I'm thinking IC is something that it isn't?


I am a serial who has gone through IC. They don't tell you what to do, they ask you questions so you can draw your own conclusions about your own behavior and decide what you want to do about it. I do think a christian counselor would get on you for immoral choices, but not a standard run of the mill IC. Thats not what they are trained to do. My IC would have been perfectly fine if I decided to continue to do what I was doing so long as I was happy. He said as much. IC is all about you and how you feel, and if you are ok with the consequences of your decisions.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am a serial who has gone through IC. They don't tell you what to do, they ask you questions so you can draw your own conclusions about your own behavior and decide what you want to do about it. I do think a christian counselor would get on you for immoral choices, but not a standard run of the mill IC. Thats not what they are trained to do. My IC would have been perfectly fine if I decided to continue to do what I was doing so long as I was happy. He said as much. IC is all about you and how you feel, and if you are ok with the consequences of your decisions.


So really they should replace the "C" in IC for an "E" (Enabler). That's actually rather horrifying.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> I am a serial who has gone through IC. They don't tell you what to do, they ask you questions so you can draw your own conclusions about your own behavior and decide what you want to do about it. I do think a christian counselor would get on you for immoral choices, but not a standard run of the mill IC. Thats not what they are trained to do. My IC would have been perfectly fine if I decided to continue to do what I was doing so long as I was happy. He said as much. IC is all about you and how you feel, and if you are ok with the consequences of your decisions.


So what conclusions did you come to on your own? I guess there always has to be consequences before there will be any reform?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

aine said:


> So what conclusions did you come to on your own? I guess there always has to be consequences before there will be any reform?


Well..you asked..so I will be honest. Without consequences, for someone like me, its hard for a positive change to be permanent. In my relationship there aren't any. I was able to string together a few good years. But I messed up pretty badly and am now trying to get back on the right track. I'm not going to go into into a bunch of personal details because this isn't my thread. I will just say that if there are BSs out there that have decided to reconcile, make sure your WS knows they are consequences, because if there aren't any they will probably cheat again.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well..you asked..so I will be honest. Without consequences, for someone like me, its hard for a positive change to be permanent. In my relationship there aren't any. I was able to string together a few good years. But I messed up pretty badly and am now trying to get back on the right track. I'm not going to go into into a bunch of personal details because this isn't my thread. I will just say that if there are BSs out there that have decided to reconcile, make sure your WS knows they are consequences, because if there aren't any they will probably cheat again.


That kind of seems like the mentality of a young child. Why are you not able to not cheat and betray, simply because it's horrible, cruel, deceitful, destructive and totally wrong? Are you not a grown man capable of making adult decisions? I'm not attacking you. I simply do not understand this mentality. I don't need to know I will suffer consequences in order for me not to do awful things. I could've gotten away with cheating and never been caught. But I didn't. I'm curious as to what makes you incapable of such.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

moth-into-flame said:


> That kind of seems like the mentality of a young child. Why are you not able to not cheat and betray, simply because it's horrible, cruel, deceitful, destructive and totally wrong? Are you not a grown man capable of making adult decisions? I'm not attacking you. I simply do not understand this mentality. I don't need to know I will suffer consequences in order for me not to do awful things. I could've gotten away with cheating and never been caught. But I didn't. I'm curious as to what makes you incapable of such.




I don't think it has anything to do with "being grown up" and statements like that make communication about this difficult. Without communication from former BS, how are we supposed to know what they think like?

I suspect it's simple cost/benefit analysis, but then I'm a former accountant so that's my paradigm.

I mean we do this all day, every day, don't we? Will I be a few minutes late today or will I not start dinner and have to order in tonight? Simple cost benefit - if I can sneak in and put in a few more minutes at lunch, then I've got the problem solved and there is no issue.

If I can get a BJ from that slightly drunk, lonely housewife over there and still make it home on time without the OW getting clingy or making more of it than a little NSA sex, then I've got it covered. No harm done and I haven't really done anything that bad. Besides, the W doesn't like me to look at porn anyway.

I suspect it might go something more like that. But who knows - I'd love to hear.




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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> I don't think it has anything to do with "being grown up" and statements like that make communication about this difficult. Without communication from former BS, how are we supposed to know what they think like?
> 
> I suspect it's simple cost/benefit analysis, but then I'm a former accountant so that's my paradigm.
> 
> ...


Huh? No - it's exactly about being "grown up". A child doesn't stick their hand in the cookie jar because they know it will get slapped. They don't have the cognitive ability at that point to think "well, I shouldn't stick my hand in the cookie jar because it's wrong, and therefore a I shouldn't do it". Saying "I only won;t do bad stuff if I know I'll get caught and get in trouble" is a childlike (read: immature) thought process. This stuff is "difficult" by nature. Discussing why one makes the decision to betray the one they're supposed to love and protect isn't supposed to be easy.

I'm not sure I follow the rest of your post.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

moth-into-flame said:


> That kind of seems like the mentality of a young child. Why are you not able to not cheat and betray, simply because it's horrible, cruel, deceitful, destructive and totally wrong? Are you not a grown man capable of making adult decisions? I'm not attacking you. I simply do not understand this mentality. I don't need to know I will suffer consequences in order for me not to do awful things. I could've gotten away with cheating and never been caught. But I didn't. I'm curious as to what makes you incapable of such.


I will be straight with you. Honestly speaking I think cheaters like myself have similar personality traits. I do see the pain that infidelity causes all around me. But....I don't see it in my relationship. Its morally wrong of course. But, its honestly only cruel and deceitful if your spouse is upset about it. Being honest, fidelity is probably number four or five on the list of things that my wife feels make a good husband. I wouldn't say she doesn't care at all, but its no where near as important to her as it is too most.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

ReformedHubby said:


> Well..you asked..so I will be honest. Without consequences, for someone like me, its hard for a positive change to be permanent. In my relationship there aren't any. I was able to string together a few good years. But I messed up pretty badly and am now trying to get back on the right track. I'm not going to go into into a bunch of personal details because this isn't my thread. I will just say that if there are BSs out there that have decided to reconcile, make sure your WS knows they are consequences, because if there aren't any they will probably cheat again.


what happens if the BS suspects something but doesn't have the evidence?


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> Throughout our 7 year marriage (no kids), I cheated multiple times on my wife, who I love very much and can't imagine being without her and she says the same.


You can't cheat on your wife over and over, and then say you love her. That's not love. Love is a lot more than just a feeling or empty words; it is action that seeks to honor, protect, and nourish.


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

ReformedHubby said:


> But, its honestly only cruel and deceitful if your spouse is upset about it.


Sounds like denial. I guess I just can't relate to this type of mindset. Whatever works for you and your wife.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

moth-into-flame said:


> Huh? No - it's exactly about being "grown up". A child doesn't stick their hand in the cookie jar because they know it will get slapped. They don't have the cognitive ability at that point to think "well, I shouldn't stick my hand in the cookie jar because it's wrong, and therefore a I shouldn't do it". Saying "I only won;t do bad stuff if I know I'll get caught and get in trouble" is a childlike (read: immature) thought process. This stuff is "difficult" by nature. Discussing why one makes the decision to betray the one they're supposed to love and protect isn't supposed to be easy.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I follow the rest of your post.




And... we'll have to agree to disagree.

Minimizing someone else's thoughts or actions by comparing them to a child might make sense to you and might make you feel good, but it's nonsense.

I tell my kids all the time - the only difference between children and adults is wrinkles and money.

Unless you explain basically all adult behavior that isn't "according to Hoyle" correct as that if a child, then it's not productive to single this behavior out and dismiss it as such.

You might as well label literally every issue discussed on TAM as being childish. 


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

this marriage is divorce material. Plain and simple. 

The cheating is too rampant and open marriage is not the way to go. Too many insecurities and it defeats the purpose of being married IMO

Just move on and work on yourself since you seem to have been very flawed


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## moth-into-flame (Oct 28, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> And... we'll have to agree to disagree.
> 
> Minimizing someone else's thoughts or actions by comparing them to a child might make sense to you and might make you feel good, but it's nonsense.
> 
> ...


I'm not "minimizing" anything. "Makes me feel good"? I'm not sure what makes you "feel good", but nothing about infidelity makes me "feel good". I'm not a sadist. Cheating, and the mindset of "the only reason I won't do awful things is if I know I'll get in trouble" is immature. Children are immature. What you tell your kids really doesn't matter to anyone else. Also, that's incorrect. There are a lot more differences between adults and children than "money and wrinkles". _That's_ "nonsense".


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

I truly appreciate everyone's input: positive, negative, condescending, encouraging, etc. Each and every comment helped me overcome my fears and deal with my feelings as well as put myself under a much needed microscope. 

Short Version: I confessed and we still want to try and be together in a more healthy way.

Long Version:
I confessed to my wife last week. I don't know how well it went. That sounds strange, but I was more upset than she was. That's probably because she says she knew already. She didn't know the extent, but she did specifically name a couple of instances that she chose not to confront me about because it wasn't "that serious". So I know she actually knew. However, she was upset about the one I was in love with since before her, but since it's long been over she said "I'm not going to worry about it." I know she probably said that since it was similar, although for an almost infinitely longer time, to what she had done and she's been wanting me to not worry about it for the same reason. Or maybe she really feels that way. The crazy thing is that I got pissed and told her it is "that serious" but she still disagreed. I now feel worse than if she would have got super upset. But it's not really that crazy for me to feel that way because I interpret it as confirmation that she didn't think of me the way I thought she had; kind of like what some of you say I do to her. But she explained to me. She told me she believes my shortcomings were worth my benefits. She wrote a list of what she finds in me that she hasn't seen in one man out of the numerous men before me (except for one, that she cheated on and he dumped her, and I'd never known that story until now, but they weren't married): security, additional income to work with (not rich, but we both have well above average paying careers and could still do pretty well on our own or if one of us couldn't work), dedication to our goals (when we have a goal as a couple, nothing has ever stopped us from achieving it), a big d___ & great sex (in her opinion), fun to be with (we enjoy hanging out and traveling together), protect her from everything, I'm smart and we can have deep intelligent conversations that most men can't, I'm nice and don't have a short temper (easygoing), good looking, strong character (besides my huge character flaw talked about here), I allow her more freedom than most men would (ie. lots of trips with friends), I take good overall care of my household (says I could do a little more cleaning and cooking than I do), reliable (I always do what I say I'm going to do or if she needs me for anything), I pay most of the bills (but she pays for most of the fun, so it evens out, really), treat her with respect FACE VALUE (i don't disrespect her in her face or in front of anyone who knows her or me that she knows about, and it's true), and a few more things. I'm going from memory so I know I left a few things out, but you get the point. She thinks all this in one man is too hard to find, so she deals with my flaws. She put it just that simple with not too much emotion, other than when I told her about my "love" affair. She was shocked only at the extent of my cheating, but not about my cheating itself. She was actually mad at the fact that I told her because she says she'd rather judge people off of what they show her and that she sees herself. The FACE VALUE thing that she goes by. Now that FACE VALUE is worse than she thought and it upsets her. I explained why I needed to tell her and she understands. Overall, she pretty much said what I WANTED her to say, but not what I EXPECTED her to say and I don't know how to interpret it, or if I even should. Maybe I should accept it and we can try to move on. I do tend to overthink things. She wrote me a letter. I don't agree with everything she said, but it's her opinion and way of thinking. It was very long, but this is a short paraphrasing, if you can believe that:

She said, "You are a man. Men do these things from time to time. I expect it. I know because other men always try to talk to me and I usually dismiss them. In my situation, I was, for some reason, infatuated with [Charles]. He was good looking maybe a little more so than you (but you are VERY handsome, so don't be upset), funnier than you, and was a lot more exciting than you. That's it, but I was drawn to the funny & exciting and I let my guard down. He had two things you didn't have and maybe 3 that you did, and his matching qualities were not even as good as yours. [Charles] turned out to be a very mean and jealous/possessive man, but I was still obsessed because that possessiveness was more attention than you were showing me and made me feel wanted in a stronger way than you showed. His meanness and my thoughts of you are what snapped me back to reality. I thought of you and how good you are to me and it wasn't worth losing you. Plus, I realized your not-overly-jealous and trusting personality is what allows my freedom, and I like my freedom. I know I may have lost that now, but I know your heart. Although I was still obsessed, I weaned my way away from him, blocked him, got support from a couple close friends, and dealt with my pain alone without telling you. I didn't want you to ever find out because I knew you are very sensitive and it would be too hard for you to handle. I realized I love you too much to put you through that. I know there are things about me that aren't perfect, not including this because you didn't know, but you weighed my good vs bad the same way I did you, and you decided you wanted to be with me like I did with you. I knew you cheated on me a few times, but I didn't know it was this bad and it hurts. Especially with ___, because I know you really cared about her since we met when you told me she was your ex and I believed you. But you say that's been over for years so I'm not going to worry about it now unless it slaps me in the face after this. I also knew you looked at me like I would never do such a thing, otherwise, you wouldn't have allowed me so much freedom. That made me feel bad because I know you and regardless what you do, you need a woman who doesn't do that, and I chose to be that woman. Now I'm not that woman. It makes me sad. So I can't sit here and go crazy on you for what you've done when I know what I did is the number one thing I could do to hurt you, and I did it anyway. Physical abuse is my number one thing, and you don't do that. I didn't plan on it. I messed up by going through a period of time where I opened myself up, stopped dismissing everyone who showed me attention, and started communicating with men I met. Looking back, you should have noticed when I started dressing a little nicer when going out. Our chatting and friendship just grew closer and closer before I realized it. At that point I thought about you and what you do, 'He does it and still manages to take care of me and everything at home, so it can't be that bad or hard.' and I gave it a shot. What did I learn? On my own? Without you snooping? It's not for me. I never felt comfortable about it, but I do admit it was fun and exciting and I kept it up for a while until I saw it wasn't worth it. I was closer to him than I should have been and did things that I shouldn't have done with another man. Like going to his house. One night I was there, he started kissing me and we got almost naked. I got too nervous and I left before anything happened. I still wanted to, but didn't know if I should, even though I did know I shouldn't. I planned on it about a month later and we ended up getting into an argument the night we were supposed to do it. So no, and I know you don't believe me, but I never had sex with him. Yes, I did intend to, which I feel bad about. You, on the other hand, don't surprise me that you cheated. It does surprise me how much you did. Like I said, I expect men to do that because married men try to talk to me all the time, but I think in your case, it's unhealthy because of the amount. Not trying to be mean, but you might have a problem beyond normal. I think we need to cut everybody loose for a while and get closer to each other. I LOVE YOU and whatever your problem might be, I want you to overcome it. What's pushing you to get SO MUCH extra sex? That means stop cheating on me and let's figure it out together. It's not good to dish but can't take. And I want to better understand what's important in my life, and that's you. I want you to love me and feel comfortable with me again. Cheating is not for me and I won't do it again. I learned the hard way, even before you knew about it, but I learned. And now I learned how it affects you and I don't want to see you like this ever again. Let's help each other. Let's love each other."


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

idonthaveaname said:


> I truly appreciate everyone's input: positive, negative, condescending, encouraging, etc. Each and every comment helped me overcome my fears and deal with my feelings as well as put myself under a much needed microscope.
> 
> Short Version: I confessed and we still want to try and be together in a more healthy way.
> 
> ...


Wow... I can't even articulate at this time how not right her thinking is.... I get the distinct feeling she is SO relieved you admitted it and now she can finally say with confidence that you are even...No wait you did WAY MORE, AND WAY WORSE! No, this smacks of rug sweeping, rationalizations and Minimizations, Placations and a lot of BULL crap! But thats just my opinion. Im so sorry, You don't feel this is quite right, because you are right. It isn't. This is not reasonable.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You both have a very warped sense of what marriage should be.

Of course your wife suspected what you were up to and decided to do it herself. I suspect she did sleep with him and probably others too, you will not know the full extent.
Now the rug sweeping has started. You are both not capable of real fidelity, so will probably just have an open marriage.
You ****ed over your wife, have you got what you wanted? You get to sleep around and still have a wife to come home to, an ideal scenario right?
Bet you didn't think it would be different when the shoe was on the other foot, it doesn't seem so great afterall, that is what cheating does to you and your relationship.

I don't know why you are coming to TAM, is there something specific you need help with, you got what you wanted.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

aine said:


> You both have a very warped sense of what marriage should be.
> 
> Of course your wife suspected what you were up to and decided to do it herself. I suspect she did sleep with him and probably others too, you will not know the full extent.
> Now the rug sweeping has started. You are both not capable of real fidelity, so will probably just have an open marriage.
> ...



Thing is I DONT THINK HE DID GET WHAT HE WANTED. I think he does not really know what he actually wanted. I don't know what he wants... But she is a piece of work herself, that letter.... It pisses me off in a way I can't put my finger on. Sir, I would say get in IC, stop talking to your wife and 180. You need to work on you and ABSTAIN from sex. You obviously use relationships and sex as some sort of addictive medication. You and your wife should separate, because there does not feel like there is real love. Just a bashed ego with her cheating and a hunger for your control over her again. You thought she would never do this... Her letter was not something (I) would accept for Reconciliation. She misses the point of real remorse and frankly you do as well.... Please don't try to Reconcile right now, You will just hysterically bond and in MY case it hurt later because the rollercoaster was not fun.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

That conversation and letter is a lot to process for my monogamous brain.
I sit here reading it with cringing, because the reasonings and thought processes are so foreign to me.

The purpose of my reply is to tell you I am glad you were honest with her and it is all out in the open.

Her reaction tells me you are perfect for each other.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

aine said:


> You both have a very warped sense of what marriage should be.
> 
> Of course your wife suspected what you were up to and decided to do it herself. I suspect she did sleep with him and probably others too, you will not know the full extent.
> Now the rug sweeping has started. You are both not capable of real fidelity, so will probably just have an open marriage.
> ...



Well, when I said she said what I WANTED, I didn't really mean it the way I now see that it comes across. What I really mean is that she let me off easy and I, just like most people, don't WANT to be attacked because it makes me upset. That's natural. In this case, I fully EXPECTED to be attacked and feel I deserve it, but I wasn't and THAT's what actually upset me. So I was confused whether I should accept it and move on for what it is, or if I should insist to her that I don't think either of our behaviors are acceptable and we need to work through our issues if we want to be together. 

I don't believe her about the sex part either. In the overall scheme of things, the actual act is not really that important to me. What is important is that even after I confessed, she STILL won't admit it. Of course I can't say 100%, but I estimate 95% certainty based on the evidence that she knows I have. You're right that I will never know if there were others. Based on my gut and the gigs of data I have on her, the only time she really could have is one night stands or planned meetings on her "girls" trips. Definitely possible, but the data says her AP is the only one who would fall in the planned meeting category other than meeting "random" guys at bars for drinks from time to time and coming home directly afterwards. 

No, that's not what I think a perfect scenario is. Otherwise, I would have never told her anything and continued to do just that. I felt bad every time, but did it again anyway. Stupid, but I did. I stopped and plan to stay stopped. I have a IC now who is helping me work on myself for several things about my character. I am capable. 

You're right, I thought I would not care as much as I do that she cheated on me. I was wrong. This and the above are two of the several reasons I feel the need and want to change my behavior.


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## idonthaveaname (Nov 1, 2016)

threelittlestars said:


> Thing is I DONT THINK HE DID GET WHAT HE WANTED. I think he does not really know what he actually wanted. I don't know what he wants... But she is a piece of work herself, that letter.... It pisses me off in a way I can't put my finger on. Sir, I would say get in IC, stop talking to your wife and 180. You need to work on you and ABSTAIN from sex. You obviously use relationships and sex as some sort of addictive medication. You and your wife should separate, because there does not feel like there is real love. Just a bashed ego with her cheating and a hunger for your control over her again. You thought she would never do this... Her letter was not something (I) would accept for Reconciliation. She misses the point of real remorse and frankly you do as well.... Please don't try to Reconcile right now, You will just hysterically bond and in MY case it hurt later because the rollercoaster was not fun.


This is one of those posts that hits home hard in so many ways that I can't possibly respond with everything it makes me think and feel. Thank you. 

I will try to summarize some points and be honest. I thought I knew what I wanted but was shocked into the realization that I was incorrect. I think you are correct about my addictive behaviors and I am working on those, as this experience and the forum helped me recognize it. I'm going cold turkey with the stopping cheating part. That's a physical action I can pretty much force myself to not do. The relationship part is more mental and will take more time. 

I think her letter and view is strange and unacceptable in some ways, but I also have thoughts like, "based on my own character, do I even deserve anything better than what she's giving me?" 

A great part of your comment is the introduction to the concept of hysterically bonding. I'd never heard of it. I quick-researched and learned it's exactly what I did when I first found out even before I told her of my knowledge. I showed no mercy and "wowed" her for a couple weeks. I though I was being weird! Before she knew of my knowledge, she was in heaven! After I told her, she still enjoyed, but it seemed she allowed it more out of her guilt. It's since died down some, but that was something I was trying to understand about my behavior. Now I do, so thanks. 

I have to think more deeply about your other statements, but I do understand your reasonings.


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