# Wife wants sex but won't initiate



## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

Every so often my wife of 20+ years complains we hardly have sex and this is true, I'd like regular sex too. What has put me off initiating is that I have no clue as to when she might be receptive. If I try and engage when I feel horny, most of the time she will say she is too tired or maybe feeling a bit constipated (which I have no reason to doubt is true). If I suggest it in the afternoon or early evening when we are both active she'll say we have too much to do (which might be true but not imperative they need doing immediately). If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever. She does not behave, tease or dress in any way sexy that likely to induce a hard-on. For me to get aroused is down to me.

In earlier days we would have sex 4-5 times a week and if I was horny, she was up for it too, it was as easy as that. She has always been passive sexually and would leave it to me and say "do whatever you want to me" which was a subtle message for me to get kinky and push the boundaries a little further than before. It was always the case that I would have to direct the course of our lovemaking. She would never spontaneously give me a BJ for example even if I have gone down on her just before, I would have to tell her to do so and she would willingly perform. She certainly taxed my imagination and creativity and we both had a good time then. Now I realise that without the "do whatever you want to me" permission, her passiveness is rather boring and non-arousing.

That was then, but while still very passive, desires no more than simple missionary, certainly no encouragement to be more adventurous. For me to get erect and stay erect I have to fantasize, thinking of the sex I had in earlier days and it is not so easy since the vividness of it all has faded, not being regularly refreshed. I sometimes pop a generic Viagra which would not be necessary if we had sex like in the earlier days or was not so completely passive.

A few months ago, I offered her regular full bodied massages with lots of erotic touching which she loved and I found arousing too both visually and sensually, but now she finds it difficult to find the right time for it.

So, how do I get my wife to be a little less subtle in her desire for sex and maybe regain some of the adventure we had before?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

https://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011-ebook/dp/B004W0IRQ8


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

Hey Twoofus...went through a similar thing with my wife a few years ago and found these to be important:

- Make sure to add spice to your relationship and really try to remember to be romantic all the time, not just at night or days you're interested. Treat her like she's your new girlfriend. Tell her she's pretty and loved all the time. Get handsy from time to time and let her know how she makes you feel. You'd be amazed at what a little ongoing 'wooing' can do to turn a persistent reluctant no to a yes. Plus it really enhances your life and marriage and rekindles the love (regardless of sex as an outcome).
- It took me a long time to realize that my wife actually wants me to take charge and maintain a bit of a dominant attitude. She doesn't want to initiate or make decisions. She wants to feel wanted and desired. She wants to be told what and how to do certain things. 
- Assess yourself honestly and always be working to improve

If you're in a loving committed relationship some of these little subtle changes can really impact the dynamic. I don't 100% agree with all of it, but there's a lot to be learned about the psychology of attraction from things like Married Red Pill and all the books you hear about here. Main focus on many of them is to self-improve and own your role in attracting your wife.


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

Satya said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011-ebook/dp/B004W0IRQ8


Yes, go buy this book and read it now


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I agree 10% with BigDigg above. The only thing I can suggest is to talk wiht your wife and specifically schedule time to have sex (Saturday morning, Friday night -- what ever works for the both of you). This sets the expectation that you will have sex ALWAYS then. I know it's not spontaneous, but you will probably find that you both start getting in the mood when that time comes around. Once sex starts happening more regularly, I bet you will find more spontaneous times to have sex.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

twoofus said:


> If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever.


You should let her know that this attitude is a load of horse ****.

If she's complaining that there's not enough sex, she needs to put her big-girl pants on and communicate like an adult.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It's very manipulative to put you in charge, and then turn you down. It's also total nonsense that you should know when she's in the mood, unless she gives clear signs. Call her out on this, certainly.

If she wants you to initiate, then her responsibility is to rarely turn you down when you do - since you can't really read her mind - and to go along with the activities you specify. IMO, she can't have it both ways and expect to have a marriage.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

@twoofus have you asked her to give examples of her sex signals? She may genuinely not realize how perplexed you are as to when she's in the mood. She may genuinely think she's giving you signals and wondering why the hell you aren't acting on them. And with her passiveness, she may be too embarrassed to complain about it after the fact.

There are plenty women who really aren't comfortable initiating and see that as part of a man's role. They simply cannot work up the nerve to make the first step. Moreover, her approach to sex suggests she's more sexually submissive than you seem to realize. Her preference for you taking the lead and willingness to give bjs only when asked, is evidence of that. I bet there is a sexual side of your wife that has yet to be unleased by an uber confident, uber dominant you. And that she would take tremendous pleasure in being taken against her will in a fit of raw, unabated passion. I bet you'd be having a whole lot more sex if you took control of you guys' sex life and told her what to do instead of waiting around for her to act.

Plan a night alone, work her up with flirting/teasing throughout the day, surprise her with some lingerie (that's appropriate for her body, the sales ppl can help) and a note telling her to put it on, come home and take her how you want her! Do something! Just stop waiting for her when she's shown you that she needs you to take the lead. Go look up the sex god method (there's a book and reddit) and implement where appropriate.

I don't know that your wife's approach to sex is right or wrong, as opposed to you simply needing to accept that this is who she is. And instead of getting frustrated, focus on figuring out how to appeal to her sexual persona. Your wife actually wants more sex!


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Dearest wife,

I understand you want more sex. This should be easy since I do as well. We are in complete agreement.

However, you regularly refuse my advances, so I am a bit perplexed. There are two ways we can solve this, increasing sex to a frequency we can both be happy with.

1. You respond positively when I initiate

or

2. You initiate. You may do so with confidence as I will never turn you down. 

Unless you are willing to allow either of those options to flourish, nothing will get fixed here. It's that simple.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Dear twoofus;

What is wrong with just asking your wife about sex when you want it? 

Yes, she may reject you, but unless her rejection is making her feel guilty and a failure as a woman, get over your fear/dislike of rejection. It is her loss when she says no.

People just seem to make each sex act too important a deal and take rejection too personally. Yes being sexually rejected a lot is hard on the ego, but so are lots of things in life. Just because something is difficult doesn't mean you should avoid it. 

In fairness, it probably makes her uncomfortable to feel like she rejects you sexually a lot. So give her a chance to say yes.

Good luck.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I don't mean to sound obvious and I'm not being flippant. After 20 years especially......this is something you should just tell her straight out. Not while watching TV, or splitting her/your attention between activities. 

She'll get defensive and/or put it on you, or she'll be very happy you were clear about it. but you can tell her in a way to defuse the negative in the talk. 

Don't wait, or you'll continue to stew. I've been happily married almost 35 years. Stewing never promotes togetherness. The great advantage of a long marriage is you can remind her that not only do you see her as she is today, beautiful and attractive to you, but as she was when you met, as she's grown with you through the years, and as someone you've loved as you both have gone through ups and downs through the years, you see all "all of her all at once, in the blink of an eye, every time you look at her, and she's just as desirable today as the first time you met and got to know her.

And as you feel more connected to her with physical touch, this is only a good thing. 

After you tell her don't drag out the discussion unless it's going in a positive direction. 

Tell us how it went! It will be good, you'll both be happier.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> Dear twoofus;
> 
> What is wrong with just asking your wife about sex when you want it?
> 
> ...


Apparently not enough for her to not say no though. 

It's her loss? If she's not looking for it at the moment, she's out nothing. No loss for her whatsoever. 

It only becomes a big deal when rejection is frequent and consistent. And then it most certainly is a big deal. Of course, we have no insight here as to just how often OP proposes, and what percentage of those proposals are rejected. 

So just as speculation that she's LD or largely unresponsive is as yet unsubstantiated, so is any speculation that continually opening up for more rejection will actually improve anything because she's really trying.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Listen to @Keke24

Although I might suggest you passed a point in your relationship a while ago where the suggestions being made would have worked well. I suspect your wife is tired of your unwillingness to adopt the role she needs you to adopt, and she is acting out against you by refusing to play along with your current attempts.

My own experience is pretty convoluted. But you never know, maybe your wife is somewhat similar to my wife. In my case my wife went to the extreme of having a One Night Stand, and immediately telling me about it, to shake things up and make the changes she needed. 

In my opinion it is your wife’s opinion you are being much too passive. The trouble is with some women, for instance the ones who are so passive they refuse to even speak up, how do you come to realize what they need?


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

When your feeling in the mood put the sensual moves on. If she rejects you say hmm...thought you want more sex I'm kinda horney and would prefer to make love to you but being as your not receptive I'm going to go watch some porn and take care of things myself!

Then go in the bed room with your tablet and rub one out make sure to moan loudly and make the bed hit the wall . 

Then come out and say wow I needed that wish you were there.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

When you were dating and first married, did you ask her if she might want to have sex later that afternoon? ...... or did you start flirting with her and kissing her and making out with her and indulging in foreplay with her??

I've been married 22 years and I don't know if I have ever asked my wife if she wanted to have sex and I can't remember her ever asking me if I wanted to. 

.....if one of us wants it, we just start doing it and either the other goes along with it or they don't. 

I'm going to generalize here but women typically do not walk around in a state or horniness or arousal. They are not horny while they are going through bills or sorting the laundry or picking up the dog toys off of the stairs. If you ask them if they are in the mood or if they want to have sex at that time, the answer is going to be no. 

The mood and the arousal and often times even the very idea of sexuality must be created. 

I also encourage you to get Athol Kay's "Married Man Sex Life" books and material. 

I think you've lost your masculine edge and sense of sexual assertiveness and initiation. 

Real life married wives and mothers are not like the chicks in porn with their husbands. You are not going to be delivering pizza and they are overcome with uncontrollable desire and drop to their knees and start begging for your schlong. 

The reason that is such universal theme in porn is because in real life men have to put in work and effort and the universal male fantasy is that they don't have to do any work and that women will be so overcome with desire for them that they will come on to them and beg for it. 

Great fantasy and it may happen a few times in youth at the bar, but not realistic in a 20+ year marriage with middle aged couples.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

This is what RMY said:

"It's her loss? If she's not looking for it at the moment, she's out nothing. No loss for her whatsoever."

The last sentence, no loss for her whatsoever, is spot on. That comes up in 90% of similar circumstances of what you've described. 
She's getting what she wants...... which is "not right now" which repeats itself and whatever the reasons, she doesn't spend time with you enjoying each other. 

Unless you communicate clearly...not in a pleading manner by any stretch. But straight and forthrightly. And don't wait for her to initiate things coming up. The next time you desire to have sex just start in a good manner like it's a definite thing and if she turns you down, the best response is along the lines of "I know I was clear earlier. I'm not going to try and talk my way into getting you into bed. I'm not going to keep repeating myself, that gets old for both of us. I know i was clear so when i look back on things I know i at least intentionally communicated my thoughts with you." This is not a threat and not intended to open the door to a threat in any way but truly so if the problem continues it's for your own peace of mind, working on the problem.

Then go about your business in another room. Do this once but no more than twice.

Some people have just started and ended with "There has to be more sex in our relationship" and waited for an answer.

If she says


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

What makes you think she is still in love with you?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OP in your post I saw "If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know".

Tell her that would make you the only person in the world to be a mind reader so let's move on to a different way. There are so many short answers from there. 

The key here is short discussions from your point of view. If there are other issues the only way you'll find out is to not let her of the hook with ridiculous answers. 

And so what if you have to initiate the next 99/100 times as long as you spend time together. Get over that. That pattern might work for you as a couple for whatever reason. It's not uncommon. It's never 50/50. And after a successful few months etc she may change up on you.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I suggest you ask @FeministInPink about your wife.


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## AbsoluteZer0 (Mar 8, 2018)

Just my two cents, but perhaps you shouldn't say anything. Just come up behind her and kiss her on the neck passionately and rub her body. Perhaps she's looking for you to take charge a little and show she's still attractive and desired.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

twoofus said:


> She does not behave, tease or dress in any way sexy that likely to induce a hard-on. *For me to get aroused is down to me*.


This is another part I actually identify with. I don't really get in the mood either without some kind of feedback. In cases like this where there IS no feedback...meh, why bother? If I have to work myself up to it for a (maybe) 10-15% chance of success.....


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I've said it before, I've been told how wrong I am, but I still firmly believe it. The Wife of twoofus does not like sex. She prefers housework. Given the choice between the two she consistently chooses housework. Now the naysayers will say that she is asking twoofus for more sex. But logically if she wanted more sex she would not put off (indefinatly) her favorite full body massage. The nasty truth about her request is one of two things.
1 - She just wants to get it on the record so she doesn't have to shoulder the blame for the sexless relationship.
or
2- She needs him to initiate regularly to pump up her ego, so she can feel attractive, but she is unwilling to let go of the power of saying no. (she prefers withholding to sharing sex).


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

AbsoluteZer0 said:


> Just my two cents, but perhaps you shouldn't say anything. Just come up behind her and kiss her on the neck passionately and rub her body. Perhaps she's looking for you to take charge a little and show she's still attractive and desired.


THIS ^^^^^^^

Just do it. 

Now have a little common sense and don't do it when the kids are in the room or while she is puking sick or while you're in the middle of the canned goods section of the grocery store or if the house is on fire etc etc

But do take the bull by the horns when a realistic time and place presents itself. 

Realize that she is obligated by Chick-Code to give at least a little token resistance so that you have to work for it a little (even girl rabbits hop a few steps away the first couple times a boy rabbit tries to climb on) but if she gives you a hard no, then remind her that she has stated she wants more sex and that this is what sex is. 

If she continues to give you a hard no even though there is no logical or rational reason not to, then @Mr Nail is right and she simply does not want to have sex with you and she is just paying lip service to keep you chasing that carrot on the string.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Apparently not enough for her to not say no though.
> 
> It's her loss? If she's not looking for it at the moment, she's out nothing. No loss for her whatsoever.
> 
> ...


My wife is LD and I am HD. For a while, I was in a sex starved marriage. I understand rejection, constant and relentless rejection. A really good sex therapist helped my wife and me negotiate a compromise between LD and HD that we could both barely live with. 

If a spouse actually cares about you and loves you then they will feel bad about constantly rejecting you. As you say, maybe not bad enough to stop, but it will take a toll on them. Again, they have to care about you and not sadistically enjoy hurting you. I have been on both sides of that one.

Now as to "her loss." One of the No More Mr. Nice Guy Lessons I learned was that I have worked hard to become a really integrated man and that there are a lot of women out there that would love to have me as their husband. I am fit, sociable, fun to be with at parties, have interesting hobbies, trustworthy, well groomed, educated, financially comfortable, a full head of hair at 69 years of age, no serious medical problems, etc. During Sex Therapy, the ST asked my wife if any of her friends and coworkers flirted with me at parties. The ST asked my wife if any of her friends told her that she was lucky to have me. My wife said yes to both. The ST pointed out my attributes/qualities and told her that I was a "catch" and she was lucky to have me and if we divorced, I would have no problem in finding a girlfriend/lover or wife. That was over 7 years ago.

Actually about a year ago when we were updating wills and trusts for our finances, the lady attorney suggested to my wife that she might not want to do the traditional leave her half of the estate to her husband if she dies first, as she sees many men get remarried soon after becoming widowers and the new wife gets to spend much of the money the first wife struggled to help save. My wife looked at me and changed the type of trust to go for my support after her death, but also so our kids would have a say in how her estate is spent.

The Sex Therapist negotiated a typical weekly frequency of sex that we both agreed to (along with establishing boundaries on how we treat each other) that is a minimum in us staying married. That is partially how we reconciled from our sex starved marriage. In my case if my wife were to reject me too much, she knows that I will divorce her. She has even asked me if I still would divorce her recently and I have told her that I made a promise to myself about how I was going to be treated and I always keep my promises. 

If she says no, it is her loss because I try to be a good lover and provide her pleasure and because it cements the emotional bond between us that keeps us together as a married couple. She values our marriage and her rejection puts it at risk. That is the way I view any sexual rejections by my wife and I do feel if she says no, it is her loss. I have a temporary loss, but I know my loss will only be temporary.

Of course if she ever feels she would prefer to be divorced, then she will likely reject me, but so far she values our marriage and feels love for me.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> My wife is LD and I am HD. For a while, I was in a sex starved marriage. I understand rejection, constant and relentless rejection. A really good sex therapist helped my wife and me negotiate a compromise between LD and HD that we could both barely live with.
> 
> If a spouse actually cares about you and loves you then they will feel bad about constantly rejecting you. As you say, maybe not bad enough to stop, but it will take a toll on them. Again, they have to care about you and not sadistically enjoy hurting you. I have been on both sides of that one.
> 
> ...


Every last word of that is predicated on her genuinely loving him and putting that love as her #1 priority. We don’t yet know if that’s the case. Hopefully it is, but the numbers of women who think like that, and are actually willing to act accordingly indicate that’s not necessarily likely.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

twoofus said:


> Every so often my wife of 20+ years complains we hardly have sex and this is true, I'd like regular sex too. What has put me off initiating is that I have no clue as to when she might be receptive. If I try and engage when I feel horny, most of the time she will say she is too tired or maybe feeling a bit constipated (which I have no reason to doubt is true). *If I suggest it in the afternoon or early evening* when we are both active she'll say we have too much to do (which might be true but not imperative they need doing immediately). *If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex* she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever. She does not behave, tease or dress in any way sexy that likely to induce a hard-on. For me to get aroused is down to me.


Buddy. Really? You actually make those suggestions? I just want you to know what a big turn off that is. And I can tell you that in the middle of doing something like house cleaning is almost never a good time. Don't elect yourself the judge of what is and isn't important or imperative to her. Just take note and accept it. We women aren't like you. We can't switch gears, or rather don't want to, at the prospect of have sex because what we're doing is important in that moment. You're probably always ready for it but we are not. And there are other considerations going through minds, like "If I don't get this done now, I might never come back to it." Whether you get it or not, accept it and figure out some better times. And well, that's not to say that she won't EVER be agreeable when she's in the middle of doing something. I'm just saying generally.

_"she says I should intuitively know"_
I'm really sorry about that one. We have a tendency to think our guy can read our minds. We have a tendency to think he should know what we expect from him and when. We're stupid like that, and I've never understood why but we are. And then when you prove that you can't read our mind and you don't know what we expect, then we're likely to call you the stupid ones. So go figure.

One approach you DEFINITELY DON'T want to take is this one that was suggested to you. After something like that, you would be lucky to ever have sex again, and I'm pretty sure you can begin the countdown to the divorce.

But some good suggestions were this one and this one.



twoofus said:


> A few months ago, I offered her regular full bodied massages with lots of erotic touching which she loved and I found arousing too both visually and sensually, but now she finds it difficult to find the right time for it.


I don't suppose you've ever thought that you, yourself, are the boring one. You normally do nothing but want sex and excitement. You gave her a massage one day and found you liked the results, but your imagination beyond that fell pretty flat thinking that's all you have to do for now on in order to get a good roll in the hay. I think you are the one who needs to get adventurous. Don't be so narrow thinking you can fall back on that one thing that worked out for you that one time. 

Your woman needs more than that. But let me tell you that she doesn't need your obvious ploy to get laid by trying to make that one success a repeat. She doesn't appreciate you trying to work her over like that. You make her feel used when you do it.

What she needs is along the lines of what BigDigg suggested in my first link of good suggestions. She needs to know you value her all the time and not just when you want sex. Remember you have a wife around the clock, so get creative for her sake and not just your own.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> My wife is LD and I am HD. For a while, I was in a sex starved marriage. I understand rejection, constant and relentless rejection. A really good sex therapist helped my wife and me negotiate a compromise between LD and HD that we could both barely live with.
> 
> If a spouse actually cares about you and loves you then they will feel bad about constantly rejecting you. As you say, maybe not bad enough to stop, but it will take a toll on them. Again, they have to care about you and not sadistically enjoy hurting you. I have been on both sides of that one.
> 
> ...


This has to be the most pathetic arrangement for a marriage I have ever read.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

twoofus said:


> If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever.


Your wife is wrong. You should not intuitively know when she's interested. That's mind reading. No one can read minds. This is unfair of your wife.

Your wife is not playing fair. She is not giving you anything to go on and is causing you frustration. It would be good for you to tell her that. Do not put up with her refusing to work with you to resolve this problem. You are supposed to have each other's backs, but she isn't even engaging in trying to resolve something between the two of you that is bothering you. That's not okay.

Have you considered that your wife may no longer want to have sex with you or that there is something physically wrong with her?


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

...


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Actually about a year ago when we were updating wills and trusts for our finances, the lady attorney suggested to my wife that she might not want to do the traditional leave her half of the estate to her husband if she dies first, as she sees many men get remarried soon after becoming widowers and the new wife gets to spend much of the money the first wife struggled to help save. My wife looked at me and changed the type of trust to go for my support after her death, but also so our kids would have a say in how her estate is spent.
> 
> .


WTF? 

I would have told her to choke on it. If I give me all and lay it all on the line, then my spouse had best do the same. I probably would have just said "**** it" and went ahead and had the papers ready for her the next morning. It's about the principles for me. At least you know where you stand I suppose. 

End thread jack. 

OP, your wife expects you to be a mind reader. If it was me I would do the same to her and then when she whines tells her, "well, you should just know these things".

Start using her own tactics against her.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

The other evening, very early on, my wife seems nicely relaxed and with a pleasant disposition so I make a couple of drinks and suggest we take them up to bed with us and she readily agreed. I popped a Sildenafil (generic Viagra) and said they take about 40 mins to be effective. I warmed up a vibrator at her request and we had a long chat about our earlier sex life together and we both enjoyed discussing some of the kinkier stuff we did in those days while we cuddled and I asked her if anything we did back then would now be outside her present boundary and she said no, she would be comfortable with it all. At this stage I had done a little foreplay and received no physical in return when she suddenly said "Enough talking and fingering, just stick it in me" to which I replied that I wasn't quite ready (hard enough) yet and a little foreplay from her should do it. She responded "Why should I? You're a man, you should be get stiff at the thought of sex. A rapist doesn't ask for a BJ prior to screwing the girl!" Needless to say I was flabbergasted by the suggestion that all real men are rapists or would be if the need arose. To be clear, she was not talking about consensual role play rape, but life imprisonment sex offender stuff. I asked would she care if I raped her and she said she wouldn't mind. (Don't worry, I do not consider that consent and I could not anyway). She then went on to attack my "endowment" for the first time ever saying it was not much bigger than average (at least she avoided small) but she had boyfriends prior to our relation whose ****s were down to their knees.
At this stage I slipped off my wedding ring and put it the bedside drawer (It's worth a few quid scrap) and vowed never to suggest or participate in lovemaking with her again.
Up until now I thought our marriage could be fixed but she clearly has no respect for me so I'm out. Good luck for search for a knee banging bell-end.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

two, I'm so, very sorry. 

When I read these stories of how women are speaking to their husbands, it's quite shocking.

I hope you're okay.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

minimalME said:


> two, I'm so, very sorry.
> 
> When I read these stories of how women are speaking to their husbands, it's quite shocking.
> 
> I hope you're okay.


Thanks minimalME
Yes, I'm OK. My wife exhibits nearly all of the BPD traits which I'm fairly good at handling them and, as a result, thick skinned. This last outburst is yet another of them and I quite surprised myself not to be provoked. However, She has an undeniably deep disrespect for me (and just about everyone else she knows well) which I cannot see any way of changing. I will end this marriage carefully. It concerns me that I think she would go rapidly downhill outside of our marriage, but she has had 20+ years of me, some good, but mostly challenging on my part: It's time for me to cut the cast off the millstone and get on with the rest of my life. There is no romantic or sexual "other" for either of us but I am not looking. Sure I would like to be part of a truly loving and caring relationship in the future, but it will probably never happen and I'm ok with that idea.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

Satya said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011-ebook/dp/B004W0IRQ8


I've looked at the free sample of the Kindle version and some of the reviews and might give it a read later. Could you explain why you recommend this book and how did it help you. Cheers!


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## Randy2 (Jul 19, 2016)

Twofus,
Yikes, ouch !! That would have hurt me.
Move along with YOUR life. You sound like a good guy. There are plenty of available women out there. Be careful about not getting pulled back into what sounds like a toxic relationship at this point. You deserve to be happy.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Get her into a shrink to find out why she is acting this way.

There's too many possibilities. Although I suspect you don't want to deal with any of the possibilities.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

twoofus said:


> The other evening, very early on, my wife seems nicely relaxed and with a pleasant disposition so I make a couple of drinks and suggest we take them up to bed with us and she readily agreed. I popped a Sildenafil (generic Viagra) and said they take about 40 mins to be effective. I warmed up a vibrator at her request and we had a long chat about our earlier sex life together and we both enjoyed discussing some of the kinkier stuff we did in those days while we cuddled and I asked her if anything we did back then would now be outside her present boundary and she said no, she would be comfortable with it all. At this stage I had done a little foreplay and received no physical in return when she suddenly said "Enough talking and fingering, just stick it in me" to which I replied that I wasn't quite ready (hard enough) yet and a little foreplay from her should do it. She responded "Why should I? You're a man, you should be get stiff at the thought of sex. A rapist doesn't ask for a BJ prior to screwing the girl!" Needless to say I was flabbergasted by the suggestion that all real men are rapists or would be if the need arose. To be clear, she was not talking about consensual role play rape, but life imprisonment sex offender stuff. I asked would she care if I raped her and she said she wouldn't mind. (Don't worry, I do not consider that consent and I could not anyway). She then went on to attack my "endowment" for the first time ever saying it was not much bigger than average (at least she avoided small) but she had boyfriends prior to our relation whose ****s were down to their knees.
> At this stage I slipped off my wedding ring and put it the bedside drawer (It's worth a few quid scrap) and vowed never to suggest or participate in lovemaking with her again.
> Up until now I thought our marriage could be fixed but she clearly has no respect for me so I'm out. Good luck for search for a knee banging bell-end.


I was about to make some suggestions that I'm confident will work... but then I read this.

So nah, your wife does not deserve it, nor does she deserve you.

If you want I can give you suggestions for initiating for women who prefer dominant partners, but ONLY for the next lady.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

WilliamM said:


> Get her into a shrink to find out why she is acting this way.
> 
> There's too many possibilities. Although I suspect you don't want to deal with any of the possibilities.


Nor would I blame him if he didn't.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow. I'm so sorry. This does answer what is going on with your wife. She does not want to have sex with you. Her comments show where her mind is. She is a danger to you. This is serious stuff here. You are right to want to get away from her and quickly, however, be careful. You might consider getting a VOR (voice operated recorder) and keeping it on you in case she calls the police over domestic violence to try and establish a paper trail so she can pin domestic violence on you.
You say, "We both enjoyed discussing..." No, I'm sorry to say this, but she did not enjoy discussing anything with you. What she was enjoying was her ploy to hurt you and to get you off her back sexually. She clearly does not want to have sex with you and has been playing with your emotions. She may also be cheating on you or she's just crazy or both, because the whole scenario you described was clearly a set up. Your wife is not on your side. What she did was adversarial, pre-planned, and meant to hurt you in the worst way.


twoofus said:


> The other evening, very early on, my wife seems nicely relaxed and with a pleasant disposition so I make a couple of drinks and suggest we take them up to bed with us and she readily agreed. I popped a Sildenafil (generic Viagra) and said they take about 40 mins to be effective. I warmed up a vibrator at her request and we had a long chat about our earlier sex life together and we both enjoyed discussing some of the kinkier stuff we did in those days while we cuddled and I asked her if anything we did back then would now be outside her present boundary and she said no, she would be comfortable with it all. At this stage I had done a little foreplay and received no physical in return when she suddenly said "Enough talking and fingering, just stick it in me" to which I replied that I wasn't quite ready (hard enough) yet and a little foreplay from her should do it. She responded "Why should I? You're a man, you should be get stiff at the thought of sex. A rapist doesn't ask for a BJ prior to screwing the girl!" Needless to say I was flabbergasted by the suggestion that all real men are rapists or would be if the need arose. To be clear, she was not talking about consensual role play rape, but life imprisonment sex offender stuff. I asked would she care if I raped her and she said she wouldn't mind. (Don't worry, I do not consider that consent and I could not anyway). She then went on to attack my "endowment" for the first time ever saying it was not much bigger than average (at least she avoided small) but she had boyfriends prior to our relation whose ****s were down to their knees.
> At this stage I slipped off my wedding ring and put it the bedside drawer (It's worth a few quid scrap) and vowed never to suggest or participate in lovemaking with her again.
> Up until now I thought our marriage could be fixed but she clearly has no respect for me so I'm out. Good luck for search for a knee banging bell-end.





twoofus said:


> I've looked at the free sample of the Kindle version and some of the reviews and might give it a read later. Could you explain why you recommend this book and how did it help you. Cheers!


Based on what just happened with your wife and her "rape" talk, I wouldn't touch that woman with a ten foot pole and you definitely do not need that book. I have read that book since it's been so highly recommended by many on this site, but I would not recommend it and in your situation following the recommendations would surely result in a worse situation with your wife.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> I was about to make some suggestions that I'm confident will work... but then I read this.
> 
> So nah, your wife does not deserve it, nor does she deserve you.
> 
> If you want I can give you suggestions for initiating for women who prefer dominant partners, but ONLY for the next lady.


 Before my current and 2nd marriage, I did have a wonderful girlfriend and whatever we did together, we did the best to please each other. Quite often she would actually initiate but make me feel that I was in control. She was forever reading Cosmopolitan or whatever and trying out one of their "amazing sex tricks" The real pleasure for both of us was to give it, more so than receiving. We could not go wrong. How or why I could let her go seems a mystery.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

twoofus said:


> Quite often she would actually initiate but make me feel that I was in control.


How did she do that? :surprise:


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

WilliamM said:


> Get her into a shrink to find out why she is acting this way.
> 
> There's too many possibilities. Although I suspect you don't want to deal with any of the possibilities.


The stumbling block is getting her to agree to see a shrink or any form of counselling. She sees everything wrong as down to me. Everything that goes wrong is someone's fault but not hers of course. The fact that most of her family do what they can to avoid her means they are all at fault and she fails to see what the common factor is.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

twoofus said:


> Before my current and 2nd marriage, I did have a wonderful girlfriend and whatever we did together, we did the best to please each other. Quite often she would actually initiate but make me feel that I was in control. She was forever reading Cosmopolitan or whatever and trying out one of their "amazing sex tricks" The real pleasure for both of us was to give it, more so than receiving. We could not go wrong. How or why I could let her go seems a mystery.


Hmmm and thats the other thing, like any detailed advice we can give you, or the book that others have suggested to improve your sex life... I question if it's even necessary. Now with your example, I believe it's not. The problem with the sex has nothing to do with you at all. You do not have to change (and should not btw), as it's a simple compatibility issue. Just like I'm not compatible with a woman who likes to initiate too much, such as ex-wife. I like my dominance, the thrill of the chase, the tease and the games. Like any wild cat.

It's troublesome with your wife, on one hand, my ex-wife also used to test my confidence at times, once she told me that she has had guys bigger than me. I simply laughed and told her that they obviously didn't know how to use it otherwise she wouldn't be with me, and we laughed it off. She also had rape fantasies and I obliged, and we had alot of angry makeup sex during our frequent fights. Yet in all this, she knew I could take it. She did not mean anything malicious and everything was just fun. The only time she crossed the line was when she mentioned the D word during our more serious fights, in which I carried the threat over to completion, because that's just me.

Your wife however... I don't know, what you think? You know your dynamics better than anyone here. Because if she meant to be malicious, then I believe you are making the right decision to move on. That's NOT what you want as a life partner, and free yourself to find someone more akin to the girlfriend that you had described.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

minimalME said:


> How did she do that? :surprise:


Subtle manipulation, she was good. For example, if you she wanted some rough sex for a change, she would get me worked up about something, maybe some manager and roleplay herself her as the "the wife of boss" I was honestly too aroused to see the ruse.
To be honest, I think she always was the spark that initiated sex, be it a certain smile, double entendre or "accidental" flash of her knickers. Other times she could be wonderfully direct.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

RandomDude said:


> Hmmm and thats the other thing, like any detailed advice we can give you, or the book that others have suggested to improve your sex life... I question if it's even necessary. Now with your example, I believe it's not. The problem with the sex has nothing to do with you at all. You do not have to change (and should not btw), as it's a simple compatibility issue. Just like I'm not compatible with a woman who likes to initiate too much, such as ex-wife. I like my dominance, the thrill of the chase, the tease and the games. Like any wild cat.
> 
> It's troublesome with your wife, on one hand, my ex-wife also used to test my confidence at times, once she told me that she has had guys bigger than me. I simply laughed and told her that they obviously didn't know how to use it otherwise she wouldn't be with me, and we laughed it off. She also had rape fantasies and I obliged, and we had alot of angry makeup sex during our frequent fights. Yet in all this, she knew I could take it. She did not mean anything malicious and everything was just fun. The only time she crossed the line was when she mentioned the D word during our more serious fights, in which I carried the threat over to completion, because that's just me.
> 
> Your wife however... I don't know, what you think? You know your dynamics better than anyone here. Because if she meant to be malicious, then I believe you are making the right decision to move on. That's NOT what you want as a life partner, and free yourself to find someone more akin to the girlfriend that you had described.


She was aiming to hurt me. I know ****s come in all shapes and sizes and I'm quite comfortable being middle of the range so I didn't feel belittled, but that was her aim on this occasion. She has had a thing in the past occasionally for very large dildos and its never bothered me at all and I used to challenge her to see how much she could accommodate because, perversely, I enjoyed being amazed by the sight of it. Perhaps I should not have encouraged it, but PIV afterwards was still snug enough. Anyway, several years ago, unknown to me she threw out these monsters and she chose to refresh with a couple of "realistic" vibrators matching my size.

How to find someone akin to my former girlfriend? I guess I like one that can be both dominant and submissive and everything in between. Whilst I enjoyed sex with my wife in earlier days with her being both passive and submissive, she was not adding anything new to the mix and her techniques were poor and I had demonstrate how to stimulate a penis. From past discussions with her, it appears her ex husband and ex boyfriend would totally dominate her with full on bondage (one of them would make all sorts of elaborate custom restraints while the other was happy with a large roll of cling film) and as long as they could get to her vagina or anus or whip her behind, they were happy. It appears both of them were not interested in BJs. My wife that she really enjoyed it at the time and did not feel exploited.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

twoofus said:


> She was aiming to hurt me. I know ****s come in all shapes and sizes and I'm quite comfortable being middle of the range so I didn't feel belittled, but that was her aim on this occasion. She has had a thing in the past occasionally for very large dildos and its never bothered me at all and I used to challenge her to see how much she could accommodate because, perversely, I enjoyed being amazed by the sight of it. Perhaps I should not have encouraged it, but PIV afterwards was still snug enough. Anyway, several years ago, unknown to me she threw out these monsters and she chose to refresh with a couple of "realistic" vibrators matching my size.


Then she has crossed the line, and you know what to do.



> How to find someone akin to my former girlfriend? I guess I like one that can be both dominant and submissive and everything in between. Whilst I enjoyed sex with my wife in earlier days with her being both passive and submissive, she was not adding anything new to the mix and her techniques were poor and I had demonstrate how to stimulate a penis. From past discussions with her, it appears her ex husband and ex boyfriend would totally dominate her with full on bondage (one of them would make all sorts of elaborate custom restraints while the other was happy with a large roll of cling film) and as long as they could get to her vagina or anus or whip her behind, they were happy. It appears both of them were not interested in BJs. My wife that she really enjoyed it at the time and did not feel exploited.


Numbers game. Just the reality of dating. Not going to sugar-coat it, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. My recent ex-FWB-turned-GF showed me how quality a woman can truly be. If I was a different type of person, I would have married her. But even for her it took years for me to find her, after alot of women in between - not that I slept with them all, I'm picky like that 

I found someone who I thought I was looking for, then I realised she wasn't what I was looking for. So now I'm back to square one - but that's my problem lol


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

minimalME said:


> two, I'm so, very sorry.
> 
> When I read these stories of how women are speaking to their husbands, it's quite shocking.
> 
> I hope you're okay.


Ditto. 
I hate to say it but getting out seems the best for you. 
Without considering what's best for her. Hang in the there.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

this is a hard concept to grasp...but some women just will NEVER initiate. Get over it. It is in their personality, or the way they were raised when younger.

It does NOT mean they are not horny for you, or do not love you, or do not enjoy sex with you. Just do all the initiating yourself, and enjoy


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> this is a hard concept to grasp...but some women just will NEVER initiate. Get over it. It is in their personality, or the way they were raised when younger.
> 
> It does NOT mean they are not horny for you, or do not love you, or do not enjoy sex with you. Just do all the initiating yourself, and enjoy


On one hand, I agree.

However, he gets to choose whether that works for him...or not.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

I disagree that your wife is this ****ty person with no respect for you and no interest in sex with you. I still think she's simply a sexually submissive woman who needs a sexually dominant man whereas you're more into regular sex without the D/S dynamic and as a result you have a hard time interpreting her behavior/take things too personally.

My underlying assumption in the following responses is that your wife is indeed sexually submissive:



twoofus said:


> The other evening, very early on, my wife seems nicely relaxed and with a pleasant disposition so I make a couple of drinks and suggest we take them up to bed with us and she readily agreed. I popped a Sildenafil (generic Viagra) and said they take about 40 mins to be effective. I warmed up a vibrator at her request and we had a long chat about our earlier sex life together and we both enjoyed discussing some of the kinkier stuff we did in those days while we cuddled and I asked her if anything we did back then would now be outside her present boundary and she said no, she would be comfortable with it all. At this stage I had done a little foreplay and received no physical in return when she suddenly said "Enough talking and fingering, just stick it in me" to which I replied that I wasn't quite ready (hard enough) yet and a little foreplay from her should do it. She responded "Why should I? You're a man, you should be get stiff at the thought of sex. A rapist doesn't ask for a BJ prior to screwing the girl!" Needless to say I was flabbergasted by the suggestion that all real men are rapists or would be if the need arose.
> 
> You are way overthinking things, where in the world did your wife say that all men are rapists?? You were hurt because her comments suggest that men shouldn't need stimulation and you didn't fit that bill in that moment so you took it personally. Yes us sexually submissive women expect that if we're being approached for sex then our man is in the mood and wants his pooms NOW. Otherwise he will simply order us to do xyz (so that he gets a hard on) because a domineering person makes demands, they don't ask. So a submissive woman will absolutely get frustrated by the foreplay and long conversation, she just wants to be ****ed! She wasn't looking for the soft, cuddly, loving kind of sex in that moment. So if you had responded differently and given her daring instructions like SUCK MY **** instead of this passive response about not being ready, the night would have gone very differently.
> 
> ...


If you can't bring yourself to be more dominant in the bedroom, be honest with your wife. Decide whether you want her to help you figure out how to bring your inner sex beast out or whether you're just not interested in being that kind of lover, and explain this to her.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> I disagree that your wife is this ****ty person with no respect for you and no interest in sex with you. I still think she's simply a sexually submissive woman who needs a sexually dominant man whereas you're more into regular sex without the D/S dynamic and as a result you have a hard time interpreting her behavior/take things too personally.
> 
> My underlying assumption in the following responses is that your wife is indeed sexually submissive:
> 
> ...


I'd demonstrate my dominance by kicking her the **** out. Disrespect is not sexy.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Fozzy said:


> I'd demonstrate my dominance by kicking her the **** out. Disrespect is not sexy.


She makes one bad remark and she deserves to be kicked the **** out and OP is ready to divorce the woman?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> She makes one bad remark and she deserves to be kicked the **** out and OP is ready to divorce the woman?


OP has indicated this is a pattern of behavior exhibiting BPD traits, not a one-time comment.

But I'll reiterate that disrespect is not sexy. It's easy to say "Oh just laugh it off and go about ****ing her anyway", but why in the world would you want to eff someone that's openly disrespecting you? Perhaps just the presence of her magical vagina isn't enough to rev his engine in spite of a bad relationship.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

@twoofus, I'm a woman so it isn't really written for me, however I have read it.

It is a book meant to empower men who are struggling with sex in marriage. Since you've described BPD traits in your SO, I'd actually recommend more strongly that you run.

Hwr treatment of you is horrible. Many women would not think of treating anyone, let alone a SO, that way.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Listen to @Keke

My wife’s method of demanding I take better control of her was to let another man have sex with her. My wife immediately confessed and threw herself on my mercy.

As an odd bit of information my wife thinks her method was less insulting to me than the insults your wife has used on you to attempt to anger you. Weird, I know. However, it is possible in our case my wife is right, for us. 

I was more forgiving about her having an affair than I might have been if she ever insulted me. Perhaps she understood me well when she made her choice.

My wife never initiated sex. She is extremely submissive. She wanted me to become even more Dominant than I was, which was already pretty Dominant. But I had no idea how far my wife wanted me to go.

Still, insulting behavior seems odd to me. 

I will grant, however, that a submissive person who doesn’t get her way can become very difficult to deal with. Very difficult.

But then my wife is an extreme brat, and very insulting to other people. Brutally so. She would throw insults like that around any time, at others. Maybe someone like her would use them as a ploy.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> She makes one bad remark and she deserves to be kicked the **** out and OP is ready to divorce the woman?


It ain't the number of remarks, it's how bad the remark was.

That **** is unacceptable.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

toblerone said:


> It ain't the number of remarks, it's how bad the remark was.
> 
> That **** is unacceptable.


I agree. What comes out of our mouths is an indication of what we are thinking and what is going on in our hearts. Those comments didn't simply come out of nowhere. That is how she feels about the relationship.

However, I have no perspective when it comes to being a submissive with a dominant, so I don't know if that could be the underlying issue as expressed by other posters. Could she have been trying to anger you and get you to dominate her? Is she trying to push your buttons to get a more dominant response from you? I don't know. If you want to stay with her, I would be very careful after she made the rape remark. If you feel comfortable with the dom, you might want to stop asking your wife for what you want and instead tell her what she is going to do. Ex: Honey, I'd like to make love tonight vs do this specific act now. See how that works out for you. She may become the woman of your dreams or she may throw something at you. Her response will tell you if that's what she's looking for or not.

If you find that she is looking for you to dominate her and you are okay with that, please do not sign anything. I have heard of people writing up contracts (someone on TAM mentioned it). That is a bad idea. I know of someone in real life who almost went to jail over a domestic violence charge where the contract was used as evidence. There was a crazy turn of events where the accuser was exposed as a liar, but even after that, the guy ended up having to attend some classes and something else in order to avoid a record.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Without a doubt a Dominant/submissive relationship with Bondage Discipline SadoMasochism is something to approach very carefully, if at all. It is dangerous ground if you can’t trust her.

I have no idea if that’s what your wife envisions, or not. However, given what you have written I will say it is within the realm of possibility. Some submissive people who desire such relationships, sadly, are known to be unable to just ask for what they want. Instead they sabotage their relationships until their Significant Other strikes out at them, and the relationship dynamic they want is established.

Before this happened to me I never would have believed people did this. Since experiencing this I have read about it happening in other relationships. Possibly it’s because of very bad issues on the part of the person desiring the submissive role, to the point they just can’t talk about their needs. So they use sabotage instead.

I don’t know why it happens, or any ideas how to tell who is who. Why can’t people just say what they want?

My wife has had many years of psychiatric help since acting out. She is much better balanced than she was. She still won’t say what she wants. She once said if she ever had to say what she needed then she picked the wrong Master.

BDSM requires a lot of trust. It is true the things I do to my wife are criminal. But she is happy. And no, there is no paperwork. No idea where that ever came from. Probably some disgusting book. 

By the way, all the popular literature we have seen on the subject is pure garbage.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

This situation has so much messiness in it that I'm feeling out of my depth. In my experience I don't see this a a Submissive making a play. Just doesn't seem right to me. I still think she puts way too much effort into avoiding sex, and the hurtful comments were trying to elicit a wilt, not a rampage. Either way the event has had one good effect. Twoofus has determined that he is not sexually compatible with this woman. And in that determination he is very correct.

And @Keke24 , yes it is true that if you can't play safely, you don't get to play!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Mr. Nail said:


> This situation has so much messiness in it that I'm feeling out of my depth. In my experience I don't see this a a Submissive making a play. Just doesn't seem right to me. I still think she puts way too much effort into avoiding sex, and the hurtful comments were trying to elicit a wilt, not a rampage. Either way the event has had one good effect. Twoofus has determined that he is not sexually compatible with this woman. And in that determination he is very correct.
> 
> 
> 
> And @Keke24 , yes it is true that if you can't play safely, you don't get to play!




Yes. It’s all just guessing.

Whatever this behavior is, she needs to see a psychiatrist, regardless what else she may want.

My wife spent 8 years in psychotherapy, twice a week, after the garbage she pulled on me.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

I would really like to see this situation analyzed from the perspective of other sexually submissive women. 

I agree that the remark re OPs member was inappropriate but I see RandomDude's response as the appropriate way to address a situation like that ("my ex-wife also used to test my confidence at times, once she told me that she has had guys bigger than me. I simply laughed and told her that they obviously didn't know how to use it otherwise she wouldn't be with me, and we laughed it off."). 

Is the point of the posting not to understand why she behaves this way and how best to respond to her? 

It is not at all uncommon for a submissive woman to say/do things to piss their partners off in the hopes that it will jolt them into providing the type of dominant sex that she wants. Again, not saying that this is ok but rather that this doesn't make OP's wife some terrible person that needs to be kicked the **** out. The two people are sexually incompatible, that is all.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Keke24 said:


> *It is not at all uncommon for a submissive woman to say/do things to piss their partners off in the hopes that it will jolt them into providing the type of dominant sex that she wants*. Again, not saying that this is ok but rather that this doesn't make OP's wife some terrible person that needs to be kicked the **** out. The two people are sexually incompatible, that is all.


I didn't do this to my ex-husband. I knew it wouldn't have improved anything, and I tend to be more direct - not a passive aggressive type.

I simply asked for a divorce.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Keke24 said:


> I would really like to see this situation analyzed from the perspective of other sexually submissive women.


The appropriate avenue for that goal would be to start your own thread. This is not submissive.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Mr. Nail said:


> The appropriate avenue for that goal would be to start your own thread. This is not submissive.


Actually, helping him to understand his wife's perspective, whether the marriage is doomed or salvageable.

Not to say Keke is correct per se...but in the absence of the OP's wife being here, nobody can say they are more correct than anyone else.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

The wife mentioned in this thread could be acting out in a very traditional “brat” fashion, documented for submissive women. My wife does do that. My wife claims other people are way too thin skinned. 

If I remember right my wife’s shrinks explained it as testing me, trying to push my buttons. Now I think about it I think I remember the concept is based on the idea a truly strong and confident man can never be shaken no matter what she says. 

My wife doesn’t do the insults thing often so I guess I don’t think about those. My wife is much more into physical resistance which I have to subdue regularly.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

By the way, there seems to often be a misunderstanding regarding the submissive in D/s relationships, from what I’ve read. And my own observations of my wife, and the years spent discussing this issue with her psychiatrists. 

I have mentioned that before we got married I thought I caught a tiger by the tail. My wife is feisty and does not let the world walk on her. She thinks most other people are spineless. But she is totally submissive to me.

However I have to prove I deserve her. Quite regularly. I have to prove my Dominance. She fights me, and I must win. She decides how hard that will be. The submissive has a lot more power in the relationship than people seem to realize, too.

With help from her shrinks we found a happy medium that works for both of us.

Here’s another consideration. A person who needs this to be happy can’t just choose to be normal, to be happy without having this need met. 

If your wife is seeking to establish herself as submissive in your relationship, you could decide you love her enough to try to find common ground. It does seem she has decided something must change, so I guess the ball is in your court.

Once I discovered what my wife needed I decided to fulfill her needs. Life has been different, but for me it has been well worth the effort. I am glad I have traveled this path.


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## Desparatehouswife (Mar 18, 2018)

twoofus said:


> Every so often my wife of 20+ years complains we hardly have sex and this is true, I'd like regular sex too. What has put me off initiating is that I have no clue as to when she might be receptive. If I try and engage when I feel horny, most of the time she will say she is too tired or maybe feeling a bit constipated (which I have no reason to doubt is true). If I suggest it in the afternoon or early evening when we are both active she'll say we have too much to do (which might be true but not imperative they need doing immediately). If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever. She does not behave, tease or dress in any way sexy that likely to induce a hard-on. For me to get aroused is down to me.
> 
> In earlier days we would have sex 4-5 times a week and if I was horny, she was up for it too, it was as easy as that. She has always been passive sexually and would leave it to me and say "do whatever you want to me" which was a subtle message for me to get kinky and push the boundaries a little further than before. It was always the case that I would have to direct the course of our lovemaking. She would never spontaneously give me a BJ for example even if I have gone down on her just before, I would have to tell her to do so and she would willingly perform. She certainly taxed my imagination and creativity and we both had a good time then. Now I realise that without the "do whatever you want to me" permission, her passiveness is rather boring and non-arousing.
> 
> ...


I am a wife, and I think the biggest thing for a woman, is they want to feel beautiful and more importantly, that you think your wife is beautiful and sexy. You can trying flirting with her, writing a letter, telling her what a beautiful person she is to you, you can even do something nice for her, that is totally unexpected, like buy her a bouquet of her favorite flowers (but don't cheap out), or something that you know she will love. 
Trust me, if you do something nice for her, she will be all over you!

I wish my husband liked having sex...sigh...


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

Satya said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011-ebook/dp/B004W0IRQ8


I am reading this, about a third of the way through so far and it does seem to make some sense, at least in my situation. I now realise that generally my wife does not like to be asked questions about what she might like to do. Instead of "do you fancy going out today?" I say something like: "The Sun is shining, we will take a drive down to the coast" Sometimes she complains about this more direct approach but when asked to suggest an alternative, she does not offer one and we go down to the coast with her enjoying the trip.
Sexually, things have improved a little. She does not get much from prolonged foreplay and wants me to penetrate her pretty much when ever I'm aroused. That goes against my instinct as I would like foreplay but I'm not complaining. The exception to her general indifference to foreplay is she likes to be spanked quite hard. I have no problem with playful smacking of the bum, but find it is pushing my boundaries to go beyond that although it gets me incredibly hard. However, I did push past that until she actually said "oww, that hurts" so I asked if she wanted me to stop and she said "Only when I give in to your demands" but I had to stop although she wanted me to carry on. I understand the role endorphins play and that enhanced pleasure can be derived from pain but find it difficult to get past the feeling that I'm exploiting her.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

twoofus said:


> I am reading this, about a third of the way through so far and it does seem to make some sense, at least in my situation. I now realise that generally my wife does not like to be asked questions about what she might like to do. Instead of "do you fancy going out today?" I say something like: "The Sun is shining, we will take a drive down to the coast" Sometimes she complains about this more direct approach but when asked to suggest an alternative, she does not offer one and we go down to the coast with her enjoying the trip.
> 
> Sexually, things have improved a little. She does not get much from prolonged foreplay and wants me to penetrate her pretty much when ever I'm aroused. That goes against my instinct as I would like foreplay but I'm not complaining. The exception to her general indifference to foreplay is she likes to be spanked quite hard. I have no problem with playful smacking of the bum, but find it is pushing my boundaries to go beyond that although it gets me incredibly hard. However, I did push past that until she actually said "oww, that hurts" so I asked if she wanted me to stop and she said "Only when I give in to your demands" but I had to stop although she wanted me to carry on. I understand the role endorphins play and that enhanced pleasure can be derived from pain but find it difficult to get past the feeling that I'm exploiting her.




My wife never stated anything. I did discover my wife is a masochist. She has “self defeating personality disorder” as some prefer to call it because masochism has a bad rap to most of the world.

A study by Kinsey suggests as much as 4 percent of the population has some masochistic tendencies. Like anything it is a scale. Some to a lot. 

What I discovered about my wife was she finds “vanilla” sex boring. She had faked it for 5 years but finally got a little naughty to get me upset. The only thing she’s actually said In her was she was trying to teach me to fight with her.

There are many facets to masochism. Pain is only one small part of it. I learned a lot about it before I finally got her to talk to shrinks, and I learned a lot more after that.

One thing is it’s not considered a problem unless one of you two consider it a problem.

There are many things you can do, paths to take. I can write about it more if you like.

Remember though, it’s not a choice on her part. She needs what she needs to feel loved.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

*I think she just wants you to be more dominant...*

I think she just wants you to be more dominant...

There was another thread that dealt with some of this, can't remember the name. 

Some women, just want you to be more dominate, and not necessarily in the BDSM way, but def dominant while having sex and initiating sex. That book is a good one, more real honest communication would probably help as well. 

As with any romantic relationship, I always felt that it was unfair to expect one person to initiate sex all of the time, but I have been in that situation where I have done that before. What is wrong of the wife here is turning him down when he takes the responsibility to initiate, that is out of line if it happens too many times. 

And, of course you have to keep the romance alive as with every romantic relationship. 

Now, New GF wants to be dominated for the most part and she never turn me down for sex. She is working, and wants to take charge sometimes which I have no issue with, but she is not comfortable doing that yet, but she is working on it. 

And I know it is a new relationship, but a lot of times with just a kiss or grope, it is just TIME TO HAVE SEX if we don't have anything pressing that we have to do. 

Another example, I know new relationship, but we had a couple of hour break in the action and no place we had to be, so I just looked at her and told her, "Go ahead and get necked, get in bed and I will be there in a minute". 

At first she just looked at me and then she complied and a great time was had by all. I usually don't have to say that much.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I'm submissive. And I had some comments to go along with the recent posts. After some deliberation, my thoughts just boil down to one thing. After many months of waiting and doing without, I finally got some dominance this morning, and I feel pretty happy now.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

Submissive attitude is one of the traits of masochism. 

But please realize not all submissive people are masochists. 

It’s a logic thing. All this are that, but only some of that are this.

Your wife enjoys being spanked. From the sounds of it you do it hard enough to hurt and she still gets turned on. That’s a pretty sure fire sign of masochism.

After I realized my wife is a masochist I read up on it and right away got wrist cuffs and tried bondage on her. That’s been her thing ever since, and allowed us to use pain sparingly.

With the help of books and her psychiatrists we’ve managed to keep my feelings buoyed and her happy while spreading her interests out.

I do hurt her, every few days, but less and less. But my wife was out on the fringe of the range.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WilliamM said:


> The wife mentioned in this thread could be acting out in a very traditional “brat” fashion, documented for submissive women.


A brat sub is a very specific sub style for both males and females. A brat sub is not to be confused with a **** test or destructive fitness test. 


> My wife does do that. My wife claims other people are way too thin skinned.
> 
> If I remember right my wife’s shrinks explained it as testing me, trying to push my buttons. Now I think about it I think I remember the concept is based on the idea a truly strong and confident man can never be shaken no matter what she says.


Ah. Sounds like a destructive fitness (aka ****) test. The only way to win that game is not to play.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> I'm submissive. And I had some comments to go along with the recent posts. After some deliberation, my thoughts just boil down to one thing. After many months of waiting and doing without, I finally got some dominance this morning, and I feel pretty happy now.



Everyone's pattern, if successful and works continuously with their SO, is OK and great for them. That's an ideal situation. 
W doesn't initiate unless we didn't the night before, and 99% doesn't say no. Mostly sub in bed. *not during day. We went through kids time, now grandkids. But we've always talked about sex. And our pattern is mostly her first. Enjoyment of each other is key. Always touch when in bed. I always go to sleep with my hand on her a$$. Lucky me.

Communication is key. Not repetition of same old same old talk. That gets old. 
Imagination is key. I provide most of that 😊.

Just my 2 cents...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

twoofus said:


> The other evening, very early on, my wife seems nicely relaxed and with a pleasant disposition so I make a couple of drinks and suggest we take them up to bed with us and she readily agreed. I popped a Sildenafil (generic Viagra) and said they take about 40 mins to be effective. I warmed up a vibrator at her request and we had a long chat about our earlier sex life together and we both enjoyed discussing some of the kinkier stuff we did in those days while we cuddled and I asked her if anything we did back then would now be outside her present boundary and she said no, she would be comfortable with it all. At this stage I had done a little foreplay and received no physical in return when she suddenly said "Enough talking and fingering, just stick it in me" to which I replied that I wasn't quite ready (hard enough) yet and a little foreplay from her should do it. She responded "Why should I? You're a man, you should be get stiff at the thought of sex. A rapist doesn't ask for a BJ prior to screwing the girl!" Needless to say I was flabbergasted by the suggestion that all real men are rapists or would be if the need arose. To be clear, she was not talking about consensual role play rape, but life imprisonment sex offender stuff. I asked would she care if I raped her and she said she wouldn't mind. (Don't worry, I do not consider that consent and I could not anyway). She then went on to attack my "endowment" for the first time ever saying it was not much bigger than average (at least she avoided small) but she had boyfriends prior to our relation whose ****s were down to their knees.
> 
> At this stage I slipped off my wedding ring and put it the bedside drawer (It's worth a few quid scrap) and vowed never to suggest or participate in lovemaking with her again.
> 
> Up until now I thought our marriage could be fixed but she clearly has no respect for me so I'm out. Good luck for search for a knee banging bell-end.



Are you sure her insulting you wasn’t part of the sex talk thing, to get you all riled up and ‘rape’ her?
Or maybe she was trying to dominate you by insulting your ‘member’ etc?
Sometimes these things can be a bit awkward and have a tendency to misfire...
I somehow doubt she wanted to deliberately hurt you but I can’t be sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Keke24 said:


> I would really like to see this situation analyzed from the perspective of other sexually submissive women.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I’m with @Keke24 actually. I think rather than insult, this was dirty talk gone a bit wrong...
Except that I disagree that she is perhaps submissive only. I think she likes switching between dominant (to start with, with the insults etc) and then wants you to assume control and **** the crap out of her.
Unless she talks to you like this 24/7, I think leaving her is a bit premature...Perhaps you feel this is too much for you? Maybe you need to tell her to tone it down a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

twoofus said:


> Every so often my wife of 20+ years complains we hardly have sex and this is true, I'd like regular sex too. What has put me off initiating is that I have no clue as to when she might be receptive. If I try and engage when I feel horny, most of the time she will say she is too tired or maybe feeling a bit constipated (which I have no reason to doubt is true). If I suggest it in the afternoon or early evening when we are both active she'll say we have too much to do (which might be true but not imperative they need doing immediately). If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever. She does not behave, tease or dress in any way sexy that likely to induce a hard-on. For me to get aroused is down to me.
> 
> In earlier days we would have sex 4-5 times a week and if I was horny, she was up for it too, it was as easy as that. She has always been passive sexually and would leave it to me and say "do whatever you want to me" which was a subtle message for me to get kinky and push the boundaries a little further than before. It was always the case that I would have to direct the course of our lovemaking. She would never spontaneously give me a BJ for example even if I have gone down on her just before, I would have to tell her to do so and she would willingly perform. She certainly taxed my imagination and creativity and we both had a good time then. Now I realise that without the "do whatever you want to me" permission, her passiveness is rather boring and non-arousing.
> 
> ...




- Your wife is sexually passive and she wants and needs you to be the man and always initiate.


- Downside, many ladies make this complicated, stars have to align, not too tired, nothing on tv, not reading a good novel, etc., etc., etc.....sex is always better than this stuff.


- Then us guys stop initiating and our ladies wonder why?! Duh.....


- Sex isn't rocket science. You're horny, you have sex, simple.


- Sex isn't a 1 to 2 hour marathon during the work week. Could be 20 minutes just before bed and done. You both cuddle afterwards and sleep well.


- If your woman is in the mood, she needs to woman up and put on her woman panties, give you a strong hint she's in the mood.


- As a former coworker used to tell me, when his woman was in the mood but playing these games, No **** For You......:grin2:0:wink2:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Here's the key. 😊 no charge...

Especially if a couple has been married many years.
As a H you talk about a million things during the day, many topics, etc, without trepidation. 

Tell her (or him) you want to fool around then or later. Just be kind, nice, etc, but firmly, and clear and early enough in the evening. 

If your W sometimes says no for right then, know yourself it may be a no for then, but for goodness sake don't let it wreck you. Let nothing you hear be a personal affront. Say it every night or when you want.

If a no happens more than once, just clearly say, and nicely, attractively, just say you want to have more sex regularly.

No drug out conversations, don't over think things. You talk about everything else. Don't sit there and wonder for 20 minutes about saying let's fool around or let it worry you how she'll respond. A lot of times it may be brief as "hey, you awake? 

Don't let TV watching get started or let that stop you. To watch the last 10 minutes is of a 30 min show is OK, "after this movie" isn't. 

Never let a no wreck you. Good Lord, you're not a child anymore. Never let her get you started in a long conversation when you say let's fool around. Always say we'll talk about that later. 

It's not rocket science.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

*Wow, this one is confusing...*

Wow, this one is confusing... in a lot of way. 

So is two going to dump or not. 

As far as the spanking thing goes, you really just have to do what you have to do. 

So it turns out that New GF really likes BDSM but she had never tried it before, so we get the basics and I read up on some of it. 

And this is not my thing, I have done it some, but, you know if that is what she wants. 

One of our sessions went like this, I don't remember is she was cuffed up or not, either way, she just loved the spanking that I gave her. And frankly I was totally ok giving it to her because she had been a little bratty that day anyway. So we go through the process and she has 3 or more HUGE O's, some of the most intense that she had had up to that time. 

However, later that day she complained that I spanked her a little too hard. So what am I supposed to do with that? Spank her super hard and let her have HUGE O's or back off and just have regular O's. It is confusing. 

Now the rape thing, I just don't know if I could ever do that. I guess if it was super important to her I would. The other thing that she likes is to be woken up and F*****. Which I did and she talked about it all the next day. 

Sometimes for me it is hard and figure everything out and do that for her. She tries to be communicative as best she can but a lot I just have to figure out. Seems to be working...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Never ever rape, even if it is playing out a fantasy. There are so many things that can go wrong with the scenario, including her later turning it around and having you prosecuted, despite her telling you that is what she wanted. Same with written contracts regarding dom/sub. I've actually seen that used against a young man in court. Anything that is written that can be used out of context, including texts and other written messages.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> Are you sure her insulting you wasn’t part of the sex talk thing, to get you all riled up and ‘rape’ her?
> Or maybe she was trying to dominate you by insulting your ‘member’ etc?
> Sometimes these things can be a bit awkward and have a tendency to misfire...
> I somehow doubt she wanted to deliberately hurt you but I can’t be sure.
> ...


Just ask her to "hush now, all is good" when she's talking and it's throwing you off..That's greatly simplified but someyhi g similar, and nicely, in you two's unique love language.

Talk is sometimes good, other times doesn't fit. But if you're leading, then lead, don't stop to ask if ok. 

Even when talking about where to eat, always asking "where do you want to go" repetitively gets real old real quick to most women. Make a decision. Also for mundane topics....asking repetitively what do you want....is seen as just more decisions W has to make, to W. Another "load to bear", more pressure to W. W sometimes just doesnt want more questions and turns them off in general. 

Make decisions, don't be afraid to.


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## klimax2gether (Apr 11, 2018)

It is more than which of you initiates the sex session, have you ever wondered whether your wife reaches climax every time you engage in sex with her. This is one thing many men fail to understand. If you always make her climax, before you climax, then it will be a really satisfying experience for her. She will always look forward for the next time. Definitely she will initiate on her own to have sex with you because she is assured that you will make her orgasm before you. Sometimes this is a little bit of hard work for men because it needs so much of mental control on the man's part to facilitate the wife to reach orgasm first. It is really possible with practice.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'm sorry, but the loving act of sex should be equally initiated by either partner, without regard to fear, selfishness, bargaining, power, or gamesmanship!

Subscribing to such standards is most indicative of the fact that there is little to no love to be found within the relationship!*


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

arbitrator said:


> *I'm sorry, but the loving act of sex should be equally initiated by either partner, without regard to fear, selfishness, bargaining, power, or gamesmanship!
> 
> Subscribing to such standards is most indicative of the fact that there is little to no love to be found within the relationship!*


In real life for this, "should be equally ", meaning 50/50, is not reality. One will almost always be dominant in initiating after a few years.
No games is worked out after a while in the best Rs, that can happen to imho 95% of the time.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> I would really like to see this situation analyzed from the perspective of other sexually submissive women.
> 
> I agree that the remark re OPs member was inappropriate but I see RandomDude's response as the appropriate way to address a situation like that ("my ex-wife also used to test my confidence at times, once she told me that she has had guys bigger than me. I simply laughed and told her that they obviously didn't know how to use it otherwise she wouldn't be with me, and we laughed it off.").
> 
> ...




Sexual submissive but otherwise an assertive sometimes ***** who absolutely detests any form of passivity in men.
@twoofus

So let’s understand there is a difference between being submissive, meaning she is a generally passive person, and being a sexual submissive. Sexual submissive aren’t passive in general and certainly not by nature. Submissive people are passive in general and passive by nature though they are certainly capable of asserting themselves.

Your wife is a submissive brat (meaning she is passive in general and hasn’t accepted grown up responsibility for her sexuality and expects her partner to mind read) and is goading you into action. 

Also, she seems rather inept in reading you.

God I HATE it when women play coy! You have to shut that **** down! 
“Do whatever I want? Does that include scat play, water sports, blood play, orgasm denial? Can I tie you up in a hog tie and humiliate you by taking your picture and sending it to a few friends? Can I share you, rent you, sell you?” 

‘Do whatever you want’ should never ever go unchallenged!

After she insulted you, she probably was looking for your temper to morph into a spanking or even a belting. Hard to say. 

The big picture is you want you wife to initiate more and she doesn’t. She turns you down too often for you to initiate as often as she apparently wants you too.

Give her 5 red cards that she can use as passes, and tell her she gets 5 per month. Once she uses all 5, she may not refuse sex. Sex doesn’t have to include PIV so if she’s having issues you tell her to get on her knees. (Submissive’s enjoy this so keep that in mind.) this is a tangible way for to keep track of how often she is denying sex. She might not be aware of how often it happens, or you might feel like it happens more often than it actually does. Tangible cards cannot be refuted.

You can even make it a game with what giving up her cards means to her (certain tasks she hates, certain activities she avoids) and what the accumulation means to you (if you have 30 cards after 6 full months the next vacation is a fishing vacation and she has to clean the fish each day.) 

Buy a red candle for the bedroom and tell her to light it when she wants sex. 

You are dominant when you tell her to get her ass to the bedroom and be naked. You are dominant when you tell her to suck your **** just before you enter her. You are passive when you wait for her to initiate. You are passive when you point out you’re not hard enough yet. She needs dominant and doesn’t respond to passive.

Before you see your lawyer, remember that for her to fall for you she must have seen enough of a dominant in you therefore it must be there somewhere. You need to find that dominant man and let him have at it!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> Sexual submissive but otherwise an assertive sometimes ***** who absolutely detests any form of passivity in men.
> 
> @twoofus
> 
> ...


Damn I miss your posts, @Anon Pink.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Keke24 said:


> I would really like to see this situation analyzed from the perspective of other sexually submissive women.
> 
> I agree that the remark re OPs member was inappropriate but I see RandomDude's response as the appropriate way to address a situation like that ("my ex-wife also used to test my confidence at times, once she told me that she has had guys bigger than me. I simply laughed and told her that they obviously didn't know how to use it otherwise she wouldn't be with me, and we laughed it off.").
> 
> ...


I'm not airing my life, but I am submissive and in NO WAY would I talk to my partner the way she did. Ever. In fact, pissing the man off to "make" him spank you isn't submissive. It's topping from the bottom...at best it's "brat" behavior.

Not attractive. And not submissive.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I'm not airing my life, but I am submissive and in NO WAY would I talk to my partner the way she did. Ever. In fact, pissing the man off to "make" him spank you isn't submissive. It's topping from the bottom...at best it's "brat" behavior.
> 
> Not attractive. And not submissive.


Semantics. You may not call it that, but apparently many people consider it a spectrum. Different people find different things attractive. Just because you or I don't think that is attractive doesn't mean everyone thinks the same way. Some people find things I like stimulating and some find things I like to be boring. So many people. So many options.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I like the five cards comment. I'd ask five times in an extremely short time frame to get them out of the way .


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

gowithuhtred said:


> I like the five cards comment. I'd ask five times in an extremely short time frame to get them out of the way .



See now the asking part...kinda passive.

Don’t be passive.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Rats. I've been corrected and I agree. @anonpink, I should've correctly said, for me anyway my asking is really "let's go"...and OP imho should start the same way.

But if this plan was underway, any which way the faster the five cards can be discharged, the better. That leaves the rest of the month as "anytime is good" for OP which may ease his mind for a few weeks at a time which it sounds like would be beneficial. And could help both over time which is great.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

gowithuhtred said:


> Rats. I've been corrected and I agree. @anonpink, I should've correctly said, for me anyway my asking is really "let's go"...and OP imho should start the same way.
> 
> But if this plan was underway, any which way the faster the five cards can be discharged, the better. That leaves the rest of the month as "anytime is good" for OP which may ease his mind for a few weeks at a time which it sounds like would be beneficial. And could help both over time which is great.


I think establishing trust in their communication system is more important than getting laid, for right now at least.

Think how difficult it is for a woman who is naturally on the submissive side to also have trust issues and thus a need to control sex, even though her control doesn’t make her happier. His marriage needs better communication and trust. 

If you’re gonna do the trust fall, make sure someone is standing behind you first.
If you’re going to ask for the trust fall, make sure you’re able to catch them. (I once got knocked on my ass trying to catch a trust fall ...true story...also be sober for a trust fall)


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I definitely agree on better / very clear communication. That's a first requirement. Not really repetition, but loving and clear.


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

Anon Pink said:


> Sexual submissive but otherwise an assertive sometimes ***** who absolutely detests any form of passivity in men.
> 
> @twoofus
> 
> ...


Anon Pink has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Although I'm not naturally a dominant type person, I have consciously been taking decisions on many of the minor things without asking her such as this is what we will do or visit. Sometimes she will complain, but half-heartedly before agreeing to what I say. I've a way to go before this masterful approach will feel totally natural for me but she does seem happier for it when I do. Sex is improving too and having successfully established dominance over a situation, it does make me feel quite horny and leads to sex and if I guide her head with a gentle force, she will suck me (which she hasn't done for years) and tells me she enjoys it too. Her technique is not brilliant and I doubt if I could cum through it, but love that she is prepared to do that again.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Good to hear things are improving a bit.

Take time and learn the new groove and go from there.


Good luck


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

I'd like to thank everyone for their time and effort that responded and even if I have not applied everything that was suggested, it has greatly helped me understand my situation and now if I get randy, we almost always have sex. I no longer need the sildenafil (generic Viagra) to keep an erection which is probably due to finding my developing dominance arousing in itself. She has not said anything dismissive to me since. She normally wears trousers or jeans but I now tell her when I want her to wear a skirt or dress and she will comply. I'll let her choose the accessories of course.
Initially I had an issue with dominance because I had mistakenly believed it to be the same thing as being a complete arsehole, but of course it ain't necessarily so.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Looks like you've found what works for the two of you. Under the circumstances, that's quite a feat. Good job.



twoofus said:


> I'd like to thank everyone for their time and effort that responded and even if I have not applied everything that was suggested, it has greatly helped me understand my situation and now if I get randy, we almost always have sex. I no longer need the sildenafil (generic Viagra) to keep an erection which is probably due to finding my developing dominance arousing in itself. She has not said anything dismissive to me since. She normally wears trousers or jeans but I now tell her when I want her to wear a skirt or dress and she will comply. I'll let her choose the accessories of course.
> Initially I had an issue with dominance because I had mistakenly believed it to be the same thing as being a complete arsehole, but of course it ain't necessarily so.


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## Davidmidwest (Nov 22, 2016)

twoofus said:


> Every so often my wife of 20+ years complains we hardly have sex and this is true, I'd like regular sex too. What has put me off initiating is that I have no clue as to when she might be receptive. If I try and engage when I feel horny, most of the time she will say she is too tired or maybe feeling a bit constipated (which I have no reason to doubt is true). If I suggest it in the afternoon or early evening when we are both active she'll say we have too much to do (which might be true but not imperative they need doing immediately). If I suggest that she might let me know when she fancies sex she says I should intuitively know but she gives off no signals whatsoever. She does not behave, tease or dress in any way sexy that likely to induce a hard-on. For me to get aroused is down to me.
> 
> In earlier days we would have sex 4-5 times a week and if I was horny, she was up for it too, it was as easy as that. She has always been passive sexually and would leave it to me and say "do whatever you want to me" which was a subtle message for me to get kinky and push the boundaries a little further than before. It was always the case that I would have to direct the course of our lovemaking. She would never spontaneously give me a BJ for example even if I have gone down on her just before, I would have to tell her to do so and she would willingly perform. She certainly taxed my imagination and creativity and we both had a good time then. Now I realise that without the "do whatever you want to me" permission, her passiveness is rather boring and non-arousing.
> 
> ...


Both of you listen to these two book audio books. Dr. Laura's "proper care and feeding of marriage." "Mating in captivity" by Esther Perel and another by Gotman called Principia Amoris 

Ask your wife to try to pull out all her stops to try and seduce you for a change, do it to each other every other month. and how about this called the 24 hour rule. She can tell you when too. 

Have a bowl of some sort where you can put a trinket in it in a location you both frequent and look. If you want sex or she does one puts the trinket in the bowel. Who ever puts the trinket in want sex. The one who puts it in must initiate; however, if either one is too tired. The too tired one must seduce or initiate 24 hours later. You are not allowed to skip out on the 24 hour later appointment. 


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The 24-Hour Rule (a simple solution to a common sex problem)
JUN 05
2013
KEVIN A. THOMPSON » FPL, MARRIAGE	8 RESPONSES
THE 24-HOUR RULE (A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO A COMMON SEX PROBLEM)
One of the problems with two of the three types of sex every married couple should have is that sometimes one spouse is not in the mood for sex.

Whether one spouse wants to be spontaneous or a romantic encounter has been on the calendar for a week, there are times when one person wants sex and the other does not.

These times can cause great frustration within a relationship. One can feel rejected, the other can feel pressured. Neither are the desired outcome. (See: What Your Husband Wants from You in Bed)

To help couples with this common frustration, I encourage implementing the 24–hour rule.

The 24–hour rule states: a spouse is free to turn down the initiation of sex by their spouse or to cancel planned sex for whatever reason they wish, but if they do so, they must initiate sex within 24 hours.

Got a headache?
Too tired?
The house too messy?
Is the game close?
Just don’t feel like?
A person can turn down sex for whatever reason they wish, however, sex is important. It is a vital aspect of marriage. It is so important that if a spouse chooses to turn it down, they need a plan for the next encounter and they need to initiate the next encounter.

Consider the benefits of the 24–hour rule:

It frees us from pressure. Sex should not be the result of pressure or coercion. While a healthy sexual relationship demands discipline and all discipline means sometimes doing things we don’t feel like doing, when it comes to sex a person should always be free to say “no.” This gives such an opportunity.

It gives hope. How many spouses (especially men) have wondered to themselves or said out loud, “Are we ever going to have sex again?” The problem with being turned down for sex is rarely missing the event that night; it is far more about wondering when it is going to happen next. By communicating a time frame, it shows that one spouse is turning down sex for the moment, not forever. And it gives relief to the other spouse who knows sex will happen soon. (See: The Greatest Aspect of Sex)

It communicates expectations. One of the problems with being turned down for sex is it makes one less likely to initiate again. When a couple has gone some time without sex, they can get in a strange dance where no one knows what the other is thinking. This rule eliminates the confusion.

No rule can solve every problem and this rule will not be a quick fix to everything. However, it can help. The simplicity of it offers great freedom.

What is another rule which could help common frustrations regarding sex?


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## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

twoofus said:


> I'd like to thank everyone for their time and effort that responded and even if I have not applied everything that was suggested, it has greatly helped me understand my situation and now if I get randy, we almost always have sex. I no longer need the sildenafil (generic Viagra) to keep an erection which is probably due to finding my developing dominance arousing in itself. She has not said anything dismissive to me since. She normally wears trousers or jeans but I now tell her when I want her to wear a skirt or dress and she will comply. I'll let her choose the accessories of course.
> Initially I had an issue with dominance because I had mistakenly believed it to be the same thing as being a complete arsehole, but of course it ain't necessarily so.


Dominance is such a natural aphrodisiac, lot of us tend to forget!

I love it too, when I ask my wife to wear a dress. I don't care sandals, sneakers just put on that flowey feminine attire, does wonders for us. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## twoofus (Jun 16, 2017)

Satya said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011-ebook/dp/B004W0IRQ8


A couple of people referenced this book and I think on the whole it is quite useful. Perhaps the style of writing is somewhat cringe-worthy, but I got over that. I do not think there is anything particularly radical in it, but the stuff about spotting the "tests" and finding the appropriate response to it was illuminating. Yes, we did have a few rows when I spotted one and refused to do whatever was required but once it was clear to her that I wasn't budging, she seemed to respect that and move on. 
In the past, I did not present the boundaries clearly, was to easy going, so she was constantly testing them like children will do to find out what they can get away with. Now, she accepts them much more readily and I'm steadily being treated with more respect.


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