# Question about personal rec time



## thetiredmommy

Hi everyone! 

So I'm new to this forum...I have been married for 6 years and I have a 4 year old girl. Lately my H and I have been arguing about personal time since our girl is a little bit older and no longer a newborn. My H used to be a very athletic man with a soccer build. But with grad school and baby's first couple years, he lost some of that physique. I still think he's really attractive, but he wants to get in better shape for his own health. I'm on board with that for sure! 

Lately he's been doing exercises at home in the morning or evening when baby and I are asleep. But he told me recently that he wants to get back into running. I thought that this should be a problem and he suggested that he run during our girl's nap, which is when I also can take a nap. But the problem is that our girl has outgrown her naps, but I still need my sleep because I sometimes have sleep problems, so I told him that he couldn't run during that time so he can watch her while I sleep. Then he suggested a run in the evening, but then that would extend how long my mom babysits (I work PT) and I don't want her to have to stay longer than she has to. But the mornings don't work well either because the door is close to her room and she usually wakes up when you shut the door, and I don't want her to wake up at 6:00am. 

So I feel bad, but I don't know how to communicate to him that starting to jog probably doesn't work right now. And he is already starting to get in shape with his exercises. :scratchhead:


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## WorkingOnMe

Exercise is important and it's wrong of you to try to keep him from doing it. That said, this seems like a no brainer to me. Get him a baby jogger and send him on his way.


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## Almostrecovered

if a Jedi can do it...


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## Anonymous07

Not sure how much your daughter weighs, but can he take her with him jogging in a stroller? 

Stroller weight limits usually go up to 50 lbs or so, so I'm assuming she is still within that limit. I have a neighbor who takes his 4 year old son running in a stroller while the 4 year old plays games in the stroller.

Exercise is important, but so is your sleep, so this can be a good compromise that works for both of you.


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## PBear

Personally, I think you're being selfish and close-minded. But I don't know all the details of your situation, obviously. 

Your daughter will get used to her bedroom door being closed at 6 am, if it starts happening regularly. 

What time does your daughter go to bed? What kind of sleep disorder do you have? And the suggestion of a jogging stroller is a good one. You can make this happen, if you want it to. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## greenfern

I think she was saying that her husband closing a door at 6am will wake up the child. I'm sure he can sneak out without waking her - that seems like the best option.


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## sinnister

Am I missing something here? Your daughter is 4 years old not 4 months old. I think you can handle the 30 min to an hour that he'll be gone for a jog???


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## Anonymous07

I'm somewhat amazed at all of the men commenting on this in the ladies lounge, making the op out to be "selfish" and "inconsiderate". They talk about the husband's "need" for exercise to be more important than the wife's needs(sleep). I don't agree at all. 

Both of them need to come to a compromise that works for each person.


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## WorkingOnMe

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm somewhat amazed at all of the men commenting on this in the ladies lounge, making the op out to be "selfish" and "inconsiderate". They talk about the husband's "need" for exercise to be more important than the wife's needs(sleep). I don't agree at all.
> 
> Both of them need to come to a compromise that works for each person.



Read sinister's post. He's spot on. This is a 4 year old, and can certainly be away for the duration of a short jog. Something else is going on. Need for control or something, who knows.


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## sinnister

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm somewhat amazed at all of the men commenting on this in the ladies lounge, making the op out to be "selfish" and "inconsiderate". They talk about the husband's "need" for exercise to be more important than the wife's needs(sleep). I don't agree at all.
> 
> Both of them need to come to a compromise that works for each person.


A 4 year old kid? You're kidding right?:scratchhead:


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## Lon

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm somewhat amazed at all of the men commenting on this in the ladies lounge, making the op out to be "selfish" and "inconsiderate". They talk about the husband's "need" for exercise to be more important than the wife's needs(sleep). I don't agree at all.
> 
> Both of them need to come to a compromise that works for each person.


men are problem solvers 

I think some of us see it as: his need for time to go and exercise does not necessarily interfere with her need to have naps during the course of the day.


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## Anonymous07

sinnister said:


> A 4 year old kid? You're kidding right?:scratchhead:


No. 

She may really need that mental and physical break from the child. Being the caretaker of any kid can be taxing, especially if she is mostly a stay at home mom. The way the child treats her is different from how the child treats the dad. Example: my son will test me, but do great with my husband. When my husband takes our son jogging, it's a big relief to me(I'm mostly a SAHM, work part-time). 

I don't get why the men are so quick to jump on this woman. 

It's important to find something that works for both of them, instead of telling her to "suck it up".


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## Rowan

I have to agree that I think there's probably something else going on here. Does the child have special needs? If not - and maybe even if so - then I'm a little unclear on what the issue is with Dad taking an hour or so to go jog. 

Have the child play quietly in her room while Mom takes a nap, even if Dad's out of the house right then. 

Teach her to not get up when/if she hears the door close early in the morning, but to ignore it and go back to sleep.

Teach her that even if she's awake early, she can play quietly in her room solo until Dad's back or Mom's up. 

Buy a jogging stroller, as has been suggested.

There are options here that shouldn't be difficult to manage in a normally functioning household with a child of 4 unless there are some serious issues that the OP didn't mention. Now, if it's more a matter of resenting that Dad gets an hour away and Mom doesn't, then there's where the discussion should focus. Of course whatever they do should be agreeable to both of them. But thinking that there is no way to manage a parent going for a run each day because the couple have a child, seems a little odd.


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## Mr. Nail

Search your feelings, is it really all those excuses or is it what the title of your post indicates? Do you really just resent that he is getting more personal recreational time away from the house than you are? BTW a jog stroller is a lot cheaper than a good quality treadmill, and provides bonding time for father and child. This is only for a year or so. I believe you should carefully review the priorities of , your nap, your mother's convenience, and keeping the front door closed in the morning, in relationship to your desire for a healthy fit husband. I'm pretty sure you can find many solutions.
MN


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## Lloyd Dobler

I'm confused, OP - what time are these naps taking place? Does your husband work from home?

I'm just trying to get a sense for when he's looking to jog to see if there might be other alternatives such as jogging at work at lunchtime.


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## staarz21

I don't think she needs to take a nap anymore - and I am talking about OP not her 4 year old daughter. 

My 3 year old outgrew his naps at 1.5 years old. So, I think she needs to let go of her afternoon naps. I don't care how much sleep she isn't getting at night. She can go to the Dr. for help getting some sleep at night. 

Also, why can't the girl/OP get up at 6am? My kids are up at 630 every morning. I get up (when H is home from deployments I get up at 5 to go for a run) make breakfast, workout, clean, do what needs to be done. 

I don't see why she needs to take a nap if all they have is a 4 year old and she is only working part time.

That said, There are ways around it. OP can wait until he is done with his run to take a nap if she feels she must, he can get a stroller, he can go at 6 am and just sneak out or use another door...is there only one door at the house? I used to go out the back door...He can go at night after everyone is home...

I don't really see this as an issue. There are ways to compromise this to where she can still get a nap if she feels she needs one...though, honestly, I don't totally agree. If her H works full time and is still getting exercise in and he doesn't get a nap...why should she? It's not like they have a newborn. 

I don't know. It sounds like there is more to it.

Maybe they could all go running together.


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## Anon Pink

My youngest was a terrible sleeper and also woke up if the front door opened or closed. I ended up having everyone come and go through the back doors.

I recommend your husband do the 6am running time rather than interfering with mom's nap. No a child at 4 cannot be left unsupervised while mom takes a nap!

I think the people who are dismissing this as a non issue have never had the combination of insomnia, a child who doesn't sleep soundly, and a child who wakes 2 hours too early! It throws off the entire day! Both mom and child are starting the day tired and cranky! And the day doesn't get better until everyone is back to bed for the night.

Depending on your child's natural temperament, you could prepare her ahead of time, let her know dad is going out to excercise and if she wakes up when he leaves, she must go back to sleep. She can cuddle up with mom but they must go back to sleep.

Some kids wake up eager to eat, play and start exploring. Other kids are little cuddle bugs and enjoy climbing in bed with Mom for an hour or so. Four is right on the cusp of being able to stay quiet, so mom can go back to sleep. If she was a 6 year old you could simply tell her to watch TV by herself until dad returns from his morning run. But 4 is too young for that.


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## Anon Pink

Just to be clear, it is during Mom's nap times that dad wants to run, leaving a 4 year old unsupervised or Mom with no nap. Neither are acceptable to the OP.

The door in question is the front door, or I'm assuming the only door? Not the child's bedroom door.



thetiredmommy said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> So I'm new to this forum...I have been married for 6 years and I have a 4 year old girl. Lately my H and I have been arguing about personal time since our girl is a little bit older and no longer a newborn. My H used to be a very athletic man with a soccer build. But with grad school and baby's first couple years, he lost some of that physique. I still think he's really attractive, but he wants to get in better shape for his own health. I'm on board with that for sure!
> 
> Lately he's been doing exercises at home in the morning or evening when baby and I are asleep. But he told me recently that he wants to get back into running. I thought that this should be a problem and he suggested that he run during our girl's nap, which is when I also can take a nap. *But the problem is that our girl has outgrown her naps, but I still need my sleep because I sometimes have sleep problems, *so I told him that he couldn't run during that time so he can watch her while I sleep. Then he suggested a run in the evening, but then that would extend how long my mom babysits (I work PT) and I don't want her to have to stay longer than she has to. But the mornings don't work well either *because the door is close to her room and she usually wakes up when you shut the door, and I don't want her to wake up at 6:00am. *
> 
> So I feel bad, but I don't know how to communicate to him that starting to jog probably doesn't work right now. And he is already starting to get in shape with his exercises. :scratchhead:


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## staarz21

Anon Pink said:


> I think the people who are dismissing this as a non issue have never had the combination of insomnia, a child who doesn't sleep soundly, and a child who wakes 2 hours too early! It throws off the entire day! Both mom and child are starting the day tired and cranky! And the day doesn't get better until everyone is back to bed for the night.


I get very little sleep. Last night, I was up until 3am. Kids still woke up at 630 am. I still have to get up because I am their only care taker right now as my H is deployed. 

My 1.5 year old woke up twice last night. I guess he was having bad dreams...not sure. It took at least 30 mins each time to calm him down. 

Yes. I know it can throw a day off, but some of us don't get the choice to sleep or take a nap. You learn to deal with it. You learn to find other ways of coping. You compromise time. 

I think her issue is the fact that he is going to have more "me" time than her and she doesn't exactly like that. I totally get it. So, instead of fighting him on running, she needs to tell him a time that she specifically wants for herself...and they can go from there to work out what will work best. 

As it stands now she is road blocking him from every angle...Morning, no (it will mean SHE has to get up)...Noon, no (SHE won't get her nap)....Night, no (daughter would have to stay at babysitter for an extra 30 min)....that's not fair. She isn't attempting to compromise because it interferes with HER time.


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## Anon Pink

staarz21 said:


> I get very little sleep. Last night, I was up until 3am. Kids still woke up at 630 am. I still have to get up because I am their only care taker right now as my H is deployed.
> 
> My 1.5 year old woke up twice last night. I guess he was having bad dreams...not sure. It took at least 30 mins each time to calm him down.
> 
> Yes. I know it can throw a day off, but some of us don't get the choice to sleep or take a nap. You learn to deal with it. You learn to find other ways of coping. You compromise time.
> 
> I think her issue is the fact that he is going to have more "me" time than her and she doesn't exactly like that. I totally get it. So, instead of fighting him on running, she needs to tell him a time that she specifically wants for herself...and they can go from there to work out what will work best.
> 
> As it stands now she is road blocking him from every angle...Morning, no (it will mean SHE has to get up)...Noon, no (SHE won't get her nap)....Night, no (daughter would have to stay at babysitter for an extra 30 min)....that's not fair. She isn't attempting to compromise because it *interferes with HER time.*


Not her time, her sleep time.

Good for you that you are able to cope with the demands of a single parent! I wouldn't have been able to cope with single parenting combined with insomnia. 

I think you're right though, that there has to be a compromise on the OP's part in order to facilitate her husband's desire to start running again.


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## staarz21

Anon Pink said:


> Not her time, her sleep time.
> 
> Good for you that you are able to cope with the demands of a single parent! I wouldn't have been able to cope with single parenting combined with insomnia.
> 
> I think you're right though, that there has to be a compromise on the OP's part in order to facilitate her husband's desire to start running again.


True. I guess I just don't see why she needs so much sleep. I mean, I get it. Sleep = awesome! I actually miss it! But she can do either/or - meaning, she can get up at 6am with her daughter OR take a nap.

I guess I'm confused as to why she needs both to sleep in AND a nap. Unless she is literally only sleeping 3 hours a night every single night for weeks on end - in which case she needs to go to the dr. 

It just seems uneven and may cause an issue with both of them later on down the road. H is more active, wife stays home and sleeps. I don't know one person who would be ok with that long term especially since they have a 4 year old and not a newborn. 

Are there any illnesses? Is there a reason she needs to sleep during the day? Her sleeping during the day could be what is messing her up at night. So many angles! 

I understand what you're saying though.


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## WandaJ

I think that thetiredmommy, as name itself indicates, is very tired, and probably emotionally exhausted from spending most of their days with a four year old. You are resenting him for trying to find time to take care of himself, and looking for excuses. Instead you should support it, and there were many good advice given on this thread. 

BUT: you need to figure out the time for you too. I am sure that your husband will be more than happy to cooperate. Maybe walk in the evening with a friend? book clube, anything, alone or with friends whatever you prefer.

Another thing: if you have insomnia, taking naps during the day will only makes it worse. I know if firsthand, I am bad sleeper. If I take a nap during the day, I know I will be up most of the nigh. So, in most cases I try to get through the day, and simply go to bed earlier. I do take a daytime nap very rarely, when I really need it to get through the rest of the day.


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## Durnik

The sting which made me want to side with the husband was actually the language used. I read an air of "I have a concern about this option, therefore, he can't do it." "He wants to run while I nap - and I need that nap - therefore he can't run then." as opposed to "how could we work this out?" 

My advise would be to get that stroller, and go for a run WITH them. I hear exercise is good for all kinds of ailments (I don't partake, myself) and at the very least, would help OP wake up in the mornings.


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## thetiredmommy

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm somewhat amazed at all of the men commenting on this in the ladies lounge, making the op out to be "selfish" and "inconsiderate". They talk about the husband's "need" for exercise to be more important than the wife's needs(sleep). I don't agree at all.
> 
> Both of them need to come to a compromise that works for each person.


Thank you. That's kinda why I posted this in the ladies forum. I understand he needs to exercise, but I have anxiety and sometimes have trouble getting a good night's rest.


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## Anonymous07

staarz21 said:


> I get very little sleep. Last night, I was up until 3am. Kids still woke up at 630 am. I still have to get up because I am their only care taker right now as my H is deployed.


So because you suffer through it all, she should "suck it up" too?

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it will work well for someone else. 

She can be a better parent when she is more well rested and if she needs a nap to catch up on sleep, than she should go for it. Working on ways to fix her insomnia would be a good idea, too. If OP can't "turn off" her mind, maybe take up journaling those thoughts down. 

There are ways to go about him getting exercise and her getting sleep that can work for both. They just need to work that out together.


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## thetiredmommy

Durnik said:


> The sting which made me want to side with the husband was actually the language used. I read an air of "I have a concern about this option, therefore, he can't do it." "He wants to run while I nap - and I need that nap - therefore he can't run then." as opposed to "how could we work this out?"
> 
> My advise would be to get that stroller, and go for a run WITH them. I hear exercise is good for all kinds of ailments (I don't partake, myself) and at the very least, would help OP wake up in the mornings.


He mentioned getting a baby stroller when she was younger but I don't like the idea of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know? I do care about him getting to do what he needs, but I'm also know that we have to think about the family's needs, too. :scratchhead:


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## PBear

Speaking as a guy...

First off, I just see posts under the "New Posts" list on my phone, which doesn't differentiate between sub-forum areas. Sorry about intruding. 

I started working out when my kids were around 8 and 10. So not as young as your daughter, obviously. I made a point of working out around my family schedule, and that seemed reasonable to me. I was out running and back again before anyone else was up, or I was out running after the kids were in bed. It was only 3x a week (in the beginning, anyway). It really does seem like a compromise should be reachable. I'm not saying his needs are more important than yours; I'm saying you two should be able to find a workable solution that everyone is happy with. 

What about the jogging stroller? What about him going to work early, and running at a gym either before work or at lunch? What about him running after your daughter is in bed? What are you doing to address your sleep and anxiety issues? 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thetiredmommy

Rowan said:


> I have to agree that I think there's probably something else going on here. Does the child have special needs? If not - and maybe even if so - then I'm a little unclear on what the issue is with Dad taking an hour or so to go jog.
> 
> Have the child play quietly in her room while Mom takes a nap, even if Dad's out of the house right then.
> 
> Teach her to not get up when/if she hears the door close early in the morning, but to ignore it and go back to sleep.
> 
> Teach her that even if she's awake early, she can play quietly in her room solo until Dad's back or Mom's up.
> 
> Buy a jogging stroller, as has been suggested.
> 
> There are options here that shouldn't be difficult to manage in a normally functioning household with a child of 4 unless there are some serious issues that the OP didn't mention. Now, if it's more a matter of resenting that Dad gets an hour away and Mom doesn't, then there's where the discussion should focus. Of course whatever they do should be agreeable to both of them. But thinking that there is no way to manage a parent going for a run each day because the couple have a child, seems a little odd.


Hi, Rowan. I'll do my best to answer your questions. 

No, she does not have special needs, but she is very active and requires stimulation at all times, nearly. 

She really does not always play quietly in the room. And she doesn't like it if I nap when she is awake. That is where he comes in to entertain her if I am napping. Otherwise, she bothers me and even screams for me to wake up. 

I could try to get her to go back to sleep, but once she is up, she is up, and she wants me to get out of bed. It's really hard enough as it is when she wants me to get out of bed at 7am when my H is getting ready to go to work. 

I know some people like the idea of a jogging stroller; he suggested it, too. But I don't like the thought of her taking an hour of time to just sit in the stroller for dad when she could be doing something entertaining or enriching. 

I don't resent him getting an hour because he supports me when necessary. I go to pilates at least once a week in the evenings so he takes care of her, feeds her dinner, and gets her ready for bed when he gets back from work. It's just that I really do need that sleep. I have anxiety and have a hard time sleeping well sometimes.


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## thetiredmommy

WandaJ said:


> I think that thetiredmommy, as name itself indicates, is very tired, and probably emotionally exhausted from spending most of their days with a four year old. You are resenting him for trying to find time to take care of himself, and looking for excuses. Instead you should support it, and there were many good advice given on this thread.
> 
> BUT: you need to figure out the time for you too. I am sure that your husband will be more than happy to cooperate. Maybe walk in the evening with a friend? book clube, anything, alone or with friends whatever you prefer.
> 
> Another thing: if you have insomnia, taking naps during the day will only makes it worse. I know if firsthand, I am bad sleeper. If I take a nap during the day, I know I will be up most of the nigh. So, in most cases I try to get through the day, and simply go to bed earlier. I do take a daytime nap very rarely, when I really need it to get through the rest of the day.


Thank you, Wanda. He is supportive, which I do like. Luckily he takes care of her in the mornings during the weekends so I can sleep in a couple of hours. But even then it's hard to get restful sleep because she's crying for me to get up while he's trying to entertain her.


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## thetiredmommy

Anon Pink said:


> Just to be clear, it is during Mom's nap times that dad wants to run, leaving a 4 year old unsupervised or Mom with no nap. Neither are acceptable to the OP.
> 
> The door in question is the front door, or I'm assuming the only door? Not the child's bedroom door.



Well he was thinking that he could run while we were both napping so his running wouldn't interfere with the rest of the day as far as possible activities. But then she recently stopped napping. 

Yes, when he closes the front door when he leaves for work, she tends to wake up right after. So you can see how I'm worried about him leaving for a run at 6:00am.


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## PBear

thetiredmommy said:


> Hi, Rowan. I'll do my best to answer your questions.
> 
> No, she does not have special needs, but she is very active and requires stimulation at all times, nearly.
> 
> She really does not always play quietly in the room. And she doesn't like it if I nap when she is awake. That is where he comes in to entertain her if I am napping. Otherwise, she bothers me and even screams for me to wake up.
> 
> I could try to get her to go back to sleep, but once she is up, she is up, and she wants me to get out of bed. It's really hard enough as it is when she wants me to get out of bed at 7am when my H is getting ready to go to work.
> 
> I know some people like the idea of a jogging stroller; he suggested it, too. But I don't like the thought of her taking an hour of time to just sit in the stroller for dad when she could be doing something entertaining or enriching.
> 
> I don't resent him getting an hour because he supports me when necessary. I go to pilates at least once a week in the evenings so he takes care of her, feeds her dinner, and gets her ready for bed when he gets back from work. It's just that I really do need that sleep. I have anxiety and have a hard time sleeping well sometimes.


At the risk of further inserting mysf where I'm not wanted... I personally don't agree with your parenting style, and think that a number of your issues are most likely self-inflicted. And an hour or so spent in a stroller won't be time mis-spent. She doesn't need active stimulation every minute she's up. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon Pink

thetiredmommy said:


> He mentioned getting a baby stroller when she was younger but I don't like the idea of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know? I do care about him getting to do what he needs, but I'm also know that we have to think about the family's needs, too. :scratchhead:


This is one of those "hands off" situations that you're just going to have to let go. True, it might not be optimal for your 4 year old to be in a stroller while dad runs behind her. But that's his issue to solve, not yours. This was one lesson I learned way too late. Let your husband discover his own routine and his own dynamic with his daughter. Let him figure out how to keep her entertained while he runs. So...let it go....


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## MEM2020

Tired,

The only thing I truly don't get is this. Why is it a problem for your mom to watch your child a bit longer at the end of the day?

Has your mom objected to doing so? Or are you objecting on her behalf? 

And regardless to your answer to that, I have a separate question.

Do you realize that the way you are framing this, makes it appear that your priorities are:

1. Your need to sleep (I think that is fair - sleep is a true need)
2. Your mothers need to not do one more hour per day watching your daughter (assuming your mom is healthy - this is her call)
3. Your child's need for 'optimal stimulation' which excludes being in a baby jogger - PS you are assuming that:
- this won't be healthy stimulation for her (not sure that's true)
- she won't like it/will be bored (very much not sure that's true)

You are very assertively trying to protect yourself and everyone else from your husbands need to run. 

This places him firmly at the bottom of your priority stack. 

I note you have also approached this as a binary - yes/no - situation. You seem not to have even considered the idea of an every other day type compromise. 

This last bit, I ask as a sincere question as I clearly don't know enough to have a viewpoint. 

Is it possible that this has turned into a power struggle with your H? That somehow you decided early on, that he didn't need this and then moved into a mode where your goal is simply to get him to do what you want? 

That doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't even mean that in general you are a controlling person. 

That said, if it is happening, you might ask yourself how much your H contributes overall to your life. 

Getting between a man and his own healthy routines risks creating long term resentment. 

You made one other comment on this thread that does not reflect well on your sense or fairness. The basic flavor of it was that you came here looking for support and validation. 

The way that comes across is that you aren't looking for a solution, you are seeking a bunch of strangers to tell you that you are right and your H needs to be beaten into submission. 

That is not what someone does when they see marriage as a partnership. That is something someone does when they are focused on winning - regardless of cost. 







thetiredmommy said:


> Hi, Rowan. I'll do my best to answer your questions.
> 
> No, she does not have special needs, but she is very active and requires stimulation at all times, nearly.
> 
> She really does not always play quietly in the room. And she doesn't like it if I nap when she is awake. That is where he comes in to entertain her if I am napping. Otherwise, she bothers me and even screams for me to wake up.
> 
> I could try to get her to go back to sleep, but once she is up, she is up, and she wants me to get out of bed. It's really hard enough as it is when she wants me to get out of bed at 7am when my H is getting ready to go to work.
> 
> I know some people like the idea of a jogging stroller; he suggested it, too. But I don't like the thought of her taking an hour of time to just sit in the stroller for dad when she could be doing something entertaining or enriching.
> 
> I don't resent him getting an hour because he supports me when necessary. I go to pilates at least once a week in the evenings so he takes care of her, feeds her dinner, and gets her ready for bed when he gets back from work. It's just that I really do need that sleep. I have anxiety and have a hard time sleeping well sometimes.


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## Lon

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



thetiredmommy said:


> He mentioned getting a baby stroller when she was younger but I don't like the idea of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know? I do care about him getting to do what he needs, but I'm also know that we have to think about the family's needs, too. :scratchhead:


I think her being pushed along quickly in a stroller could potentially be a very enriching activity for her. It's fresh air. I don't see a problem with that solution personally... Maybe you and him just have different ideas entirely about parenting, and if you are going to leave the task up to him maybe you should also let him do it his way?


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## MEM2020

At that age, my kids fought to be carried in my baby backpack. They loved it. 






Lon said:


> I think her being pushed along quickly in a stroller could potentially be a very enriching activity for her. It's fresh air. I don't see a problem with that solution personally... Maybe you and him just have different ideas entirely about parenting, and if you are going to leave the task up to him maybe you should also let him do it his way?


----------



## Lon

MEM11363 said:


> At that age, my kids fought to be carried in my baby backpack. They loved it.


my son is a traveller too - no matter what issues I'm having with him, poor behaviors, pushing the limits... as soon as he's buckled in it is peace. Last year we went on a road trip, me, him and my GF - there were a lot of tense times on that trip but as soon as we all got in the car the energy just mellowed entirely. We need that comfort and time to be a passenger for a bit.


----------



## WandaJ

Your kid is getting an hour of fresh air, experiencing the neighborhood, bonding time with daddy, maybe even love for jogging in the future. This is not lost time. 

The truth is that American kids are OVERSTIMULATED, not understimulated, at the price of parents (mostly mother's) time and sanity. You are on the track to damage your marriage, to resent your husband (I think you are already angry) because he wants to stay in shape (oh my), he will start resenting you for this, you both will be frustrated and tired, and out of shape, while your kid will be in charge of your lives.


----------



## Anon Pink

Lon said:


> I think her being pushed along quickly in a stroller could potentially be a very enriching activity for her. It's fresh air. I don't see a problem with that solution personally... Maybe you and him just have different ideas entirely about parenting, and if you are going to leave the task up to him maybe you should also let him do it his way?


I agree! She could grow to love her special daddy runs! Or, the husband could grow a new found appreciation for exactly how on earth the wife ever gets anything done. Either way, win win!


----------



## AnnieAsh

TM, I get that you're tired. I think all mothers understand that freaking bone-deep exhaustion. You'd kill for just 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep! Your attention span gets shorter, your patience runs out, your emotions are closer to the surface. It sucks. 

You being rested is EXTREMELY important. I have a few suggestions. First, address any sleep issues YOU have. Earlier bedtime, bed only used for sex and sleep, no caffeine after a certain time. Whatever you have to do to maximize your sleep and make it satisfying. 

Second, get the jogging stroller. I guarantee being outside, seeing flowers and the sun and scenery will stimulate your daughter. I have 3 month old twins and I structure their morning nap around our walk to school. Children NEED to be outside. It does them a world of good. 

Plus Daddy gets his exercise and looks hot for you.  

Next, pick an appropriate wake up time for your daughter that works for all of you. Does your daughter STTN (sleep through the night?) What's her bedtime? EWU (early wake up) is a common issue with kids. 

For my other children, I made a rule that they could play IN THEIR ROOM until the little hand reached the 7. I put a little star next it the 7 on the clock I bought specifically for their room. I bet she has TONS of stuff to do in her room without you! 

I live and breathe sleep training and schedules. It's the only way I can get anything done.


----------



## norajane

I'm super confused as to why the options are only morning before work or nap time.

Are you saying there is NO time in the evening after both of you are home from work? How about if he runs only on the days you don't work so no day care conflicts arise?

Also, have you TRIED him going out for runs at 6am? It's quite possible your child won't wake up at the sound of the door because that's in the middle of her sleep cycle. If she wakes at the sound of the door an hour later when he leaves for work, it's probably because that's when she normally would wake up, or close enough to it, anyway.

For example, every little sound close to my normal wake-up time will wake me up. My cat could meow in the other room, and I'd hear it. An hour earlier, there could be a garbage truck convention next to my bedroom and I wouldn't hear it.

Finally, if you truly cannot find 30-45 minutes in the day when it is possible for him to go out for a run, then get a treadmill.


----------



## thetiredmommy

MEM11363 said:


> Tired,
> 
> The only thing I truly don't get is this. Why is it a problem for your mom to watch your child a bit longer at the end of the day?
> 
> Has your mom objected to doing so? Or are you objecting on her behalf?
> 
> And regardless to your answer to that, I have a separate question.
> 
> Do you realize that the way you are framing this, makes it appear that your priorities are:
> 
> 1. Your need to sleep (I think that is fair - sleep is a true need)
> 2. Your mothers need to not do one more hour per day watching your daughter (assuming your mom is healthy - this is her call)
> 3. Your child's need for 'optimal stimulation' which excludes being in a baby jogger - PS you are assuming that:
> - this won't be healthy stimulation for her (not sure that's true)
> - she won't like it/will be bored (very much not sure that's true)
> 
> You are very assertively trying to protect yourself and everyone else from your husbands need to run.
> 
> This places him firmly at the bottom of your priority stack.
> 
> I note you have also approached this as a binary - yes/no - situation. You seem not to have even considered the idea of an every other day type compromise.
> 
> This last bit, I ask as a sincere question as I clearly don't know enough to have a viewpoint.
> 
> Is it possible that this has turned into a power struggle with your H? That somehow you decided early on, that he didn't need this and then moved into a mode where your goal is simply to get him to do what you want?
> 
> That doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't even mean that in general you are a controlling person.
> 
> That said, if it is happening, you might ask yourself how much your H contributes overall to your life.
> 
> Getting between a man and his own healthy routines risks creating long term resentment.
> 
> You made one other comment on this thread that does not reflect well on your sense or fairness. The basic flavor of it was that you came here looking for support and validation.
> 
> The way that comes across is that you aren't looking for a solution, you are seeking a bunch of strangers to tell you that you are right and your H needs to be beaten into submission.
> 
> That is not what someone does when they see marriage as a partnership. That is something someone does when they are focused on winning - regardless of cost.


My mother is pre-diabetic and has blood pressure problems so she's tired at the end of the day. It would add an extra hour to an already tiring day, so that's why H comes straight from work. I would do it, but I am not off from work at that time. 

He said that I don't prioritize his needs well, but that's not really true. But yes, it's true that my daughter's needs should come first. I really do need to sleep and I don't feel comfortable giving up my nap so he can run. I need that rest so I can be the best mom I can be. 

Power struggle...no I don't think so. I really like him to be open with me so we can communicate together. He actually had a hard time bringing this up to me, but I told him that he needs to tell me if he needs something in our marriage. 

I appreciate my H very much!! He works so hard for us and I love that. In many ways, he reminds me of my father who did so much for us like make pancakes before he went to work and made time to play with us.


----------



## samyeagar

thetiredmommy said:


> My mother is pre-diabetic and has blood pressure problems so she's tired at the end of the day. It would add an extra hour to an already tiring day, so that's why H comes straight from work. I would do it, but I am not off from work at that time.
> 
> *He said that I don't prioritize his needs well, but that's not really true*. But yes, it's true that my daughter's needs should come first. I really do need to sleep and I don't feel comfortable giving up my nap so he can run. I need that rest so I can be the best mom I can be.
> 
> Power struggle...no I don't think so. I really like him to be open with me so we can communicate together. *He actually had a hard time bringing this up to me, but I told him that he needs to tell me if he needs something in our marriage.*
> 
> I appreciate my H very much!! He works so hard for us and I love that. In many ways, he reminds me of my father who did so much for us like make pancakes before he went to work and made time to play with us.


This sums up very nicely where this has been going. You have decided that he is not feeling what he told you he is feeling. You tell him to bring things up and then dismiss it...

This also sums up one of the biggest reasons why my ex wife is my ex wife.


----------



## Akinaura

My only question for the OP is this: is your reaction to when he wants to run based on logic or your anxiety?

I ask because of a couple of things you've posted. I get that you want your daughter to be stimulated in all things she does, but I haven't seen a compromise of having your husband teach your daughter science as he runs. Together the two of them could learn about all the plants, wildlife, and all sorts of natural things in situations where asking questions is encouraged. If my husband offered to take our 5 year old and run with her in a stroller for a hour, I think I would cry (and then promptly figure out what I could get done while they are gone)!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thetiredmommy

AnnieAsh said:


> TM, I get that you're tired. I think all mothers understand that freaking bone-deep exhaustion. You'd kill for just 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep! Your attention span gets shorter, your patience runs out, your emotions are closer to the surface. It sucks.
> 
> You being rested is EXTREMELY important. I have a few suggestions. First, address any sleep issues YOU have. Earlier bedtime, bed only used for sex and sleep, no caffeine after a certain time. Whatever you have to do to maximize your sleep and make it satisfying.
> 
> Second, get the jogging stroller. I guarantee being outside, seeing flowers and the sun and scenery will stimulate your daughter. I have 3 month old twins and I structure their morning nap around our walk to school. Children NEED to be outside. It does them a world of good.
> 
> Plus Daddy gets his exercise and looks hot for you.
> 
> Next, pick an appropriate wake up time for your daughter that works for all of you. Does your daughter STTN (sleep through the night?) What's her bedtime? EWU (early wake up) is a common issue with kids.
> 
> For my other children, I made a rule that they could play IN THEIR ROOM until the little hand reached the 7. I put a little star next it the 7 on the clock I bought specifically for their room. I bet she has TONS of stuff to do in her room without you!
> 
> I live and breathe sleep training and schedules. It's the only way I can get anything done.


Thank you, Annie! I so agree! I experience all those things on a daily basis. 

I'll think about going to bed earlier. I really do like catching up on my shows after she goes to bed, though. You know, ANTM, Project Runway, Bachelor, so I can watch grownup shows with my H before going to bed. So I go to bed around 11:30 and wake up usually around 7:00 when she wakes up, sometimes later if H can leave quietly. Yes, the bed is used only for sleep and sex. I don't do caffeine so that's good! I can't say the same for H, though-he lives off that stuff! We play calming sounds during sleep and I really like that. 

I'm still not sure about the jogging stroller. He brought it up when she was younger, but both my mom and I decided that wasn't a good idea. He was upset about it at first, but I thought he understood, so I was confused at first when he brought it up. But yes, she does get plenty of outside time, like going to the park and playground. She really needs that physical activity and being stuck in a stroller doesn't really let her do that. 

She does sleep through the night, thank GOD!! Sometimes she has a nightmare, but H is pretty good about getting her back in bed. 

The thing is he already is starting to look good! He does body weight exercises at home and seeing results, so I'm kinda confused about that too...why start running now when this is working. 

You know, I might try to talk to her about playing in her room until 8, if possible. She's just so used to coming into our room when she wakes up.


----------



## MEM2020

Tired,
That actually all makes sense. 

A couple thoughts for the two income, time strapped couple. 

Don't make this an all or nothing thing. Start with the mindset that you will make a good faith effort to find a solution for half the week (3/4 days). 

I totally get the very difficult dynamics of augmenting mom with a baby sitter. Because mom isn't going to like it if you don't frame it well. 

So - I will tell you what I did in your H's shoes. 

My mom would watch our kids, with a baby sitter to help her. That way we knew they had adult supervision, and yet my elderly mom could choose how hands on she wanted to be. 

I told mom: this way we know the kids have you there to make sure they are ok, AND I don't feel like I'm working you into an early grave . 

The sitter was a neighbor girl who understood mom was in charge, and was very happy to make $10/hour as her assistant. 

Alternatively / in addition to that - let them try the running stroller. If your D is bored, then they stop doing it. 

I'd say there's a 50/50 chance she actually likes it. 

And the sitter would only be for his running time. 





thetiredmommy said:


> My mother is pre-diabetic and has blood pressure problems so she's tired at the end of the day. It would add an extra hour to an already tiring day, so that's why H comes straight from work. I would do it, but I am not off from work at that time.
> 
> He said that I don't prioritize his needs well, but that's not really true. But yes, it's true that my daughter's needs should come first. I really do need to sleep and I don't feel comfortable giving up my nap so he can run. I need that rest so I can be the best mom I can be.
> 
> Power struggle...no I don't think so. I really like him to be open with me so we can communicate together. He actually had a hard time bringing this up to me, but I told him that he needs to tell me if he needs something in our marriage.
> 
> I appreciate my H very much!! He works so hard for us and I love that. In many ways, he reminds me of my father who did so much for us like make pancakes before he went to work and made time to play with us.


----------



## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> I agree! She could grow to love her special daddy runs! Or, the husband could grow a new found appreciation for exactly how on earth the wife ever gets anything done. Either way, win win!


:iagree: 

My son loves his stroller rides with dad. The fresh air, enjoying nature, and so on are important for kids. It's good for them to be outside and she would also learn about the importance of exercise. It would work out best for everyone involved.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Anonymous07 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> My son loves his stroller rides with dad. The fresh air, enjoying nature, and so on are important for kids. It's good for them to be outside and she would also learn about the importance of exercise. It would work out best for everyone involved.


:iagree:
Won't know unless you give it a try.


----------



## MEM2020

Could also try a baby backpack - they easily hold older children. And that plus a pair of heavy hands (dumb bells) will ensure dad gets a cardio workout. 

Some kids like the backpack more - higher up - better view. 




QUOTE=Anonymous07;10329818]:iagree: 

My son loves his stroller rides with dad. The fresh air, enjoying nature, and so on are important for kids. It's good for them to be outside and she would also learn about the importance of exercise. It would work out best for everyone involved.[/QUOTE]


----------



## lifeistooshort

TM, is it really your daughter's need to be stimulated and catered to during her every waking moment, so that she learns the universe revolves around her? At some point she's going to have to learn to entertain herself. She is demanding because you cater to it. I have two sons myself, and at that age they could play in their room.

You and your husband have needs too. Nobody is suggesting you neglect your daughter but she doesn't have to be the center of everyone's universe. You and your hb need to get your needs met and have alone time, or she may not grow up with a happy family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anonymous07

MEM11363 said:


> Could also try a baby backpack - they easily hold older children. And that plus a pair of heavy hands (dumb bells) will ensure dad gets a cardio workout.
> 
> Some kids like the backpack more - higher up - better view.


If you want to look into carriers, try looking up "preschool kinderpack"(Welcome). The carriers are comfortable and can hold the weight of your daughter easily. He can wear her on his back and go for a walk. Just the added weight of her would be a good exercise. 

My son is a lot younger, but he brings me a carrier when he wants "ups".


----------



## Openminded

A four year old can play on her own without a parent being involved to entertain her. 

Yes, your husband is looking good but he wants to look better. And he should have the time to do that.


----------



## greenfern

thetiredmommy said:


> I'm still not sure about the jogging stroller. He brought it up when she was younger, but both my mom and I decided that wasn't a good idea. He was upset about it at first, but I thought he understood, so I was confused at first when he brought it up.


Why are you and your mom overruling your husbands' (very reasonable, IMHO!) suggestion about a jogging stroller? If I were him I would have learned not to bring anything up anymore since you have all kinds of reasons not to accommodate his desires.


----------



## thetiredmommy

MEM11363 said:


> Tired,
> That actually all makes sense.
> 
> A couple thoughts for the two income, time strapped couple.
> 
> Don't make this an all or nothing thing. Start with the mindset that you will make a good faith effort to find a solution for half the week (3/4 days).
> 
> I totally get the very difficult dynamics of augmenting mom with a baby sitter. Because mom isn't going to like it if you don't frame it well.
> 
> So - I will tell you what I did in your H's shoes.
> 
> My mom would watch our kids, with a baby sitter to help her. That way we knew they had adult supervision, and yet my elderly mom could choose how hands on she wanted to be.
> 
> I told mom: this way we know the kids have you there to make sure they are ok, AND I don't feel like I'm working you into an early grave .
> 
> The sitter was a neighbor girl who understood mom was in charge, and was very happy to make $10/hour as her assistant.
> 
> Alternatively / in addition to that - let them try the running stroller. If your D is bored, then they stop doing it.
> 
> I'd say there's a 50/50 chance she actually likes it.
> 
> And the sitter would only be for his running time.


Half the week? Hmm, we only need to figure out how he can get one run in per week. 

I like the idea of the babysitter but that's another expense. He makes most of the income and has to supplement his full time job with some extra work. so I understand we're also money strapped too. :-/ 

I really have to think about the running stroller. I have to admit that I was upset at him for bringing it up the first time because i thought he was ignoring her needs.


----------



## AnnieAsh

thetiredmommy said:


> Thank you, Annie! I so agree! I experience all those things on a daily basis.
> 
> I'll think about going to bed earlier. I really do like catching up on my shows after she goes to bed, though. You know, ANTM, Project Runway, Bachelor, so I can watch grownup shows with my H before going to bed. So I go to bed around 11:30 and wake up usually around 7:00 when she wakes up, sometimes later if H can leave quietly. Yes, the bed is used only for sleep and sex. I don't do caffeine so that's good! I can't say the same for H, though-he lives off that stuff! We play calming sounds during sleep and I really like that.
> 
> I'm still not sure about the jogging stroller. He brought it up when she was younger, but both my mom and I decided that wasn't a good idea. He was upset about it at first, but I thought he understood, so I was confused at first when he brought it up. But yes, she does get plenty of outside time, like going to the park and playground. She really needs that physical activity and being stuck in a stroller doesn't really let her do that.
> 
> She does sleep through the night, thank GOD!! Sometimes she has a nightmare, but H is pretty good about getting her back in bed.
> 
> The thing is he already is starting to look good! He does body weight exercises at home and seeing results, so I'm kinda confused about that too...why start running now when this is working.
> 
> You know, I might try to talk to her about playing in her room until 8, if possible. She's just so used to coming into our room when she wakes up.


 I record my shows (grown up stuff with swear words yay!) so I can watch them in the little time I have on my own. I only get about an hour of me time in the evening before bed, so I know how much you crave that grownup time! 

Your husband is just as much her father as you are her mother. Meaning, let him make choices for her too! 

If he thinks a jogging stroller is a good idea, why not give it a shot? What could it hurt? You get some extra time, she gets some daddy time.

On Craigslist or Freecycle, or a second hand store, you might be able to pick up a stroller for cheap. That way if you BOTH decide it's not working out, you're not out hundreds of dollars.

Give it a shot! His needs are important. So are yours. And if you both are happy and rested and fulfilled, you will be better parents. 

Do you think you may have some control issues? I'm saying this as gently as possible. When you say "my mother and I decided" that the jogging stroller wasn't the best idea...where do your husband's desires come in? Daddy has to trump grandma.

Lastly, please encourage her to play for awhile on her own. She does not need a parent hovering all the time. Allow her to engage her imagination, even if you're just right next to her reading a book.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> Half the week? Hmm,* we only need to figure out how he can get one run in per week. *
> 
> I like the idea of the babysitter but that's another expense. He makes most of the income and has to supplement his full time job with some extra work. so I understand we're also money strapped too. :-/
> 
> I really have to think about the running stroller. I have to admit that I was upset at him for bringing it up the first time because i thought he was ignoring her needs.


One run? This is about one run a week?

I'm more confused than ever how you can't find an hour a week for him to run.

I'm also more confused than ever why a jogging stroller won't work for an hour a week.

This is nuts.


----------



## WandaJ

It is not only about looking good, also about feeling better, getting excercise. All the good reasons.

You go to bed at 11:30 , get up at 7 am and still need naps? You either have sleep problems and not getting REM sleep, or you are on your way to depression. Maybe instead of the nap you should take a stroller and try walking/running too? It is good for body and soul. In any case, I think you need to work on relaxing more.

Adn the more I read your responses, the more I am convince that you are not looking for compromise, but validation. You seem somewhat offended by his idea, there is either anger or resentment there. If you do not stop it soon it may take you all the way to bitterness. 

Father jogging with daughter in the stroller is not child neglect. 

What if he starts running every other day at the beginning and see how it goes?

EDIT: This is all about ONE run a week? You sure keep him on the short leash. Ok. You do overract and overcontrol. Don't be suprise if you see him on this forum complaining about his unreasonable wife


----------



## thetiredmommy

Anon Pink said:


> I agree! She could grow to love her special daddy runs! Or, the husband could grow a new found appreciation for exactly how on earth the wife ever gets anything done. Either way, win win!


Maybe. I dont' know...

I will say this, he does understand how hard it is for me. I've called him a couple times when he was at work to see if he could come home when she was having a bad tantrum day. He takes care of her on the weekends during the mornings so I can sleep in a little longer. They really do bond during that time even if sometimes she really wants to see me.


----------



## thetiredmommy

norajane said:


> One run? This is about one run a week?
> 
> I'm more confused than ever how you can't find an hour a week for him to run.
> 
> I'm also more confused than ever why a jogging stroller won't work for an hour a week.
> 
> This is nuts.


Maybe it sounds nuts, but it really isn't. It's hard to balance time when we're so busy. The other part is that he works over 40 hours a week, so it's harder to fit that time in.


----------



## greenfern

WandaJ said:


> EDIT: This is all about ONE run a week? You sure keep him on the short leash. Ok. You do overract and overcontrol. Don't be suprise if you see him on this forum complaining about his unreasonable wife


:iagree:

My sister in law was like this with her kids. Now she is an exhausted single mom and the kids are out of her control 50% of the time when they are with their dad. Seriously he won't live like this forever and he will resent you for your control/obsessiveness over your kid.


----------



## greenfern

thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe it sounds nuts, but it really isn't. It's hard to balance time when we're so busy. The other part is that he works over 40 hours a week, so it's harder to fit that time in.


It really is nuts. Really. He is offering to go for a run from 6am to 7am once a week and you say no because you are afraid you will wake up - in fact you resent him for going to work at 7am because that also makes you get up. 

I have a suggestion, forego the tv on the night before he runs. Go to sleep at 10:30 instead of 11:30.


----------



## Lon

thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe. I dont' know...
> 
> I will say this, he does understand how hard it is for me. *I've called him a couple times when he was at work to see if he could come home when she was having a bad tantrum day*. He takes care of her on the weekends during the mornings so I can sleep in a little longer. They really do bond during that time even if sometimes she really wants to see me.


Kids have tantrums, why was is necessary for him to leave work if you were home? Was it your child that needed the help, or was it you that couldn't cope? There is no shame in that, a child's tantrum can be overwhelming (I'm a patient guy but so very sensitive to that kind of energy a child can throw around), but honesty is crucial.

You said you appreciate all the hard work he does, but do you really try to empathize with him and the loyalty he has to demonstrate to his employer in order to provide what income he can?

EDIT: forgive me, I remember now reading that you work during the day as well, so when your daughter was having her tantrum, it was your mom babysitting that was having difficulty with the situation and needed one of you there?


----------



## TiggyBlue

thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe. I dont' know...
> *
> I will say this, he does understand how hard it is for me. I've called him a couple times when he was at work to see if he could come home when she was having a bad tantrum day.* He takes care of her on the weekends during the mornings so I can sleep in a little longer. They really do bond during that time even if sometimes she really wants to see me.


Does she have bad tantrums when he looks after her?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

WandaJ said:


> Your kid is getting an hour of fresh air, experiencing the neighborhood, bonding time with daddy, maybe even love for jogging in the future. This is not lost time.
> 
> The truth is that American kids are OVERSTIMULATED, not understimulated, at the price of parents (mostly mother's) time and sanity. You are on the track to damage your marriage, to resent your husband (I think you are already angry) because he wants to stay in shape (oh my), he will start resenting you for this, you both will be frustrated and tired, and out of shape, while your kid will be in charge of your lives.


This is so true! An hour of riding while daddy jogs is incredibly enriching. Active parents are a great example to their kids, and are much more likely to produce healthy active children.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

lifeistooshort said:


> TM, is it really your daughter's need to be stimulated and catered to during her every waking moment, so that she learns the universe revolves around her? At some point she's going to have to learn to entertain herself. She is demanding because you cater to it. I have two sons myself, and at that age they could play in their room.
> 
> You and your husband have needs too. Nobody is suggesting you neglect your daughter but she doesn't have to be the center of everyone's universe. You and your hb need to get your needs met and have alone time, or she may not grow up with a happy family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This post too, is incredibly insightful.


----------



## Lon

WorkingOnMe said:


> This is so true! An hour of riding while daddy jogs is incredibly enriching. Active parents are a great example to their kids, and are much more likely to produce healthy active children.


Tiredmommy, another nice activity for your H and daughter that he may find equally beneficial as running is bike riding - you can buy a bike trailer like the one in this picture that she can not only ride along with, but even contribute pedalling to:


----------



## thetiredmommy

TiggyBlue said:


> Does she have bad tantrums when he looks after her?


Sometimes, but not usually. If she does, it's sometimes because she wants me to get up. :-/


----------



## WandaJ

thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe it sounds nuts, but it really isn't. It's hard to balance time when we're so busy. The other part is that he works over 40 hours a week, so it's harder to fit that time in.


Tiredmommy - you seem very much focused on you and your daughter, with husband be there as back up in case of tantrum or your need for a nap. Is sounds like you have a great guy in there, but his patience will run short one day. 

The guy works over 40/hrs a week, takes care of kid on weekends, and you cannot let him loose for one hour a week? I really think you and your marriage would benefit from some counseling, because you are sabotaging your relationship with your husband and loosing yourself trying to have your whole world move around some imaginary needs of your child. You are setting yourself and your relationship for failure.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Is it possible she throws tantrums with you because you give her constant attention?
Her being the constant center of attention won't do her or your marriage any good.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe. I dont' know...
> 
> I will say this, he does understand how hard it is for me. I've called him a couple times when he was at work to see if he could come home when she was having a bad tantrum day. * He takes care of her on the weekends during the mornings so I can sleep in a little longer.* They really do bond during that time even if sometimes she really wants to see me.


Then how about he gets his one hour a week on the weekend, after you wake up and can take over with your daughter?


----------



## thetiredmommy

norajane said:


> Then how about he gets his one hour a week on the weekend, after you wake up and can take over with your daughter?


That does sound like a good idea, but when I wake up, we usually have to get ready for her MyGym or other activities.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I also think it would be helpful for YOU to get some personal rec time. Whether that is something athletic, or getting your nails done or whatever, I think it's important. I'm getting the impression that all of your time with her is filled up with "programming" focused on her and her enrichment. It is important that some of her time is unstructured, she needs that kind of time to grow, mentally and emotionally. It's also good if sometimes you're doing your thing and she'd just along for the ride. She's watching you and you're showing her how to be an adult. Not in those moments when you're teaching her ASL or whatever, but in those moments when you're living YOUR life.


----------



## thetiredmommy

TiggyBlue said:


> Is it possible she throws tantrums with you because you give her constant attention?
> Her being the constant center of attention won't do her or your marriage any good.


I think you have a point, Tiggy. I'm trying to not give her that attention when she does have a tantrum. I'll put her in time out until she is done. But geez she can take a while until she calms back down.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



thetiredmommy said:


> That does sound like a good idea, but when I wake up, we usually have to get ready for her MyGym or other activities.


Does he need to be present for this?


----------



## thetiredmommy

WorkingOnMe said:


> I also think it would be helpful for YOU to get some personal rec time. Whether that is something athletic, or getting your nails done or whatever, I think it's important. I'm getting the impression that all of your time with her is filled up with "programming" focused on her and her enrichment. It is important that some of her time is unstructured, she needs that kind of time to grow, mentally and emotionally. It's also good if sometimes you're doing your thing and she'd just along for the ride. She's watching you and you're showing her how to be an adult. Not in those moments when you're teaching her ASL or whatever, but in those moments when you're living YOUR life.


You sound a lot like my H. He says that it's good for her to come along while we do our grown up things. I used to ask him to get some grocery shopping done after she went to sleep so it wouldn't interfere with her day, but I stopped that last year. 

He also likes for me to have friend time and I've started doing that. A few nights ago, I went out with a girlfriend for dinner and a movie. It was really fun! 

And yes, I'm also trying to get back in shape. Lately, I've been going to pilates class once or twice a week. It does give me some more energy.


----------



## thetiredmommy

Lon said:


> Does he need to be present for this?


I think so! He's wanted to go do something during this time, but he doesn't see her as much during the week. I was really hurt when he asked this.


----------



## PBear

thetiredmommy said:


> That does sound like a good idea, but when I wake up, we usually have to get ready for her MyGym or other activities.


The more I read, the more I think "self inflicted problems". You're not doing yourselves or your daughter any favours by making her the center of your lives. 

C


----------



## Lon

thetiredmommy said:


> I think so! He's wanted to go do something during this time, but he doesn't see her as much during the week. I was really hurt when he asked this.


why were you hurt?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Wait, you have time for pilates class twice a week, dinner and a movie with a girlfriend; but he can't jog once a week while you're taking a nap? :rofl:


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Ok, I think I understand what you're doing here....

I'm out. It was fun playing along.


----------



## Lon

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wait, you have time for pilates class twice a week, dinner and a movie with a girlfriend; but he can't jog once a week while you're taking a nap? :rofl:


I think she said he does take regular time for exercising at home during the week? So what he wants is to add an additional amount of time outside of the home for exercise...

so Tiredmommy, which of his other free time activities do you think he'd be able to shave time from in order to go do a run once a week?


----------



## thetiredmommy

Lon said:


> why were you hurt?


Well because he didn't want to see his daughter in an important activity. She's going to be little only for so long. I guess I was hurt because he seemed to say that he didn't mind missing out.


----------



## thetiredmommy

WorkingOnMe said:


> Ok, I think I understand what you're doing here....
> 
> I'm out. It was fun playing along.


I don't understand what you mean by this...


----------



## Lon

thetiredmommy said:


> Well because he didn't want to see his daughter in an important activity. She's going to be little only for so long. I guess I was hurt because he seemed to say that he didn't mind missing out.


but that's between him and her, and besides you've already demonstrated that he spends as much time as possible to bond with her. Is this gymnastics time the only family activity you all do together?


----------



## thetiredmommy

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wait, you have time for pilates class twice a week, dinner and a movie with a girlfriend; but he can't jog once a week while you're taking a nap? :rofl:


I don't always go out with my girlfriend. That's every once in a while. I'd like for him to run while we nap, but our daughter has outgrown her naps so I can't nap while she's awake.


----------



## thetiredmommy

Lon said:


> but that's between him and her, and besides you've already demonstrated that he spends as much time as possible to bond with her. Is this gymnastics time the only family activity you all do together?


No. We go out to dinner on Saturday nights. It's kind of a tradition now.


----------



## thetiredmommy

Lon said:


> I think she said he does take regular time for exercising at home during the week? So what he wants is to add an additional amount of time outside of the home for exercise...
> 
> so Tiredmommy, which of his other free time activities do you think he'd be able to shave time from in order to go do a run once a week?


Yes, he exercises twice a week for about half an hour, usually while I'm at pilates and he's watching her. He said that she copies him exercising or likes to ride on his back while he's doing pushups.  

Hmm, I'm not too sure how he can shave time from his free time activities. He has time when she goes down for bed but I do worry about him running at night. That could be dangerous...


----------



## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> I'll think about going to bed earlier. I really do like catching up on my shows after she goes to bed, though. You know, ANTM, Project Runway, Bachelor, so I can watch grownup shows with my H before going to bed. So I go to bed around 11:30 and wake up usually around 7:00 when she wakes up, sometimes later if H can leave quietly.


lol...So your need to watch trash TV is more important to you than your husband's need to be in good health and get one run in per week. Self focused much?




> I'm still not sure about the jogging stroller. He brought it up when she was younger, *but both my mom and I decided that wasn't a good idea. * He was upset about it at first, but I thought he understood, so I was confused at first when he brought it up. But yes, she does get plenty of outside time, like going to the park and playground. She really needs that physical activity and being stuck in a stroller doesn't really let her do that.


You and your mom decided and then wondered why he is upset? Who is your mom to make those kind of decisions. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a jogging stroller and in fact, having an hour long walk/run outside is an excellent activity for an active child. What study did you and your mom use to make such a decision? Or do you just actively enjoy stifling normal requests your husband makes so you can control him?




> The thing is he already is starting to look good! He does body weight exercises at home and seeing results, so I'm kinda confused about that too...why start running now when this is working.


I like mixing up my exercise. I run, I use a rebounder, I use an elliptical machine, an aerobic step, etc. Varying exercise is an excellent way to stay motivated and to ensure fewer repetitive motion injuries.

I think you are trying to subvert him from doing what he wants to do.

Let me give you a little warning....you keep up this crap and I guarantee you that he's going to get tired of it sooner than you think. 

You are completely wrong about something else too. You putting your child's "needs" above his on all occasions is completely unwise. You need to balance family needs...not defer always to the child...especially since I don't think you're talking about her actual needs at all. I think you're over-indulging her wants at the expense of your husband which will also come back to bite you in the butt. Spoiled, over-indulged kids are not fun to raise.

Its ok to tell her to wait her turn...to tell her that daddy and mommy need some time first...and to expect her to sit in a stroller for an hour. She's 4...she needs to learn how to sit down and shut it and wait. Its an important life skill.

When both my kids were 2, I expected them to sit quietly in a high chair at a restaurant with their books and small toys while we ate a relaxing meal. They were perfectly capable of doing so and it took longer than an hour. Kids live up to the expectations YOU set for them. Expectations should be age appropriate but challenging...that's how you help your kids aspire to goal setting. Indulging her every whim is really crappy parenting. Believing that she can't sit still for an hour is completely crappy parenting.

I actually blame this on your spouse, he should be telling you that your actions are controlling and not ok. I doubt you'll even get what I'm trying to say to you now...I read this thread and all you've done is make excuses for your bad behavior.

I hope your husband wakes up and puts his foot down.


----------



## Nikita2270

Lon said:


> why were you hurt?


Because what she wants and her kids wants trump anything this poor bastid might want for himself.

How dare he ask to jog once a week and bring his daughter along in a perfectly safe jogging stroller than millions of people use everyday! How could he!?!

What a joke this is....

I truly feel sorry for this guy...he probably can't take a breath without her controlling how loud and when he does it.


----------



## Lon

Well, what I'm beginning to think is that if you are taking time out the day to nap, and that supercedes any and all possible free time he can have to take care of his own needs, then ultimately it is entirely on him how he chooses to manage the time with his daughter that you are putting onto him, essentially unilaterlly. If he wants to take her in a stroller, that is entirely his right, if he chooses to hire a babysitter during that time he is also perfectly entitled to that - I say whatever it is he chooses to do when you are asleep, you need to support fully and completely.

Good luck and I hope for your entire family's sake he figures this out for himself! Trust in him and put the anxiety on the shelf and everything will be ok.


----------



## thetiredmommy

Lon said:


> Well, what I'm beginning to think is that if you are taking time out the day to nap, and that supercedes any and all possible free time he can have to take care of his own needs, then ultimately it is entirely on him how he chooses to manage the time with his daughter that you are putting onto him, essentially unilaterlly. If he wants to take her in a stroller, that is entirely his right, if he chooses to hire a babysitter during that time he is also perfectly entitled to that - I say whatever it is he chooses to do when you are asleep, you need to support fully and completely.
> 
> Good luck and I hope for your entire family's sake he figures this out for himself! Trust in him and put the anxiety on the shelf and everything will be ok.


I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me. 

But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. This is an egalitarian relationship. 

If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



thetiredmommy said:


> I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me.
> 
> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. This is an egalitarian relationship.
> 
> If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


I think you read into what I wrote wrongly. Nothing to do with gender roles, everything to do with partnership.


----------



## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me.
> 
> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. This is an egalitarian relationship.
> 
> If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


lol...I had to like your post cause it made me laugh.

The guy can't jog with his kid in a stroller once a week because you and your mom said so. You also prioritize your TV watching and required naps above something he wants for an hour a week. And you're calling this an egalitarian relationship?!?!?

lol...really? Too funny.


----------



## Anon Pink

Lon said:


> Tiredmommy, another nice activity for your H and daughter that he may find equally beneficial as running is bike riding - you can buy a bike trailer like the one in this picture that she can not only ride along with, but even contribute pedalling to:


Do they make these for adults? Only with a reclining seat back....and a raised foot rest...and maybe a butler to run alongside to blot my face when the rain and mud gets splashed onto me?


----------



## WandaJ

WorkingOnMe said:


> Wait, you have time for pilates class twice a week, dinner and a movie with a girlfriend; but he can't jog once a week while you're taking a nap? :rofl:


Good catch Workingonme!


----------



## Lon

Anon Pink said:


> Do they make these for adults? Only with a reclining seat back....and a raised foot rest...and maybe a butler to run alongside to blot my face when the rain and mud gets splashed onto me?


IDK, maybe you should invent one though? And maybe a holder to place the whip when your hands tire of clutching it? sorta like a fishing rod holder.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me.
> 
> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. * This is an egalitarian relationship. *
> 
> If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


It absolutely is not an egalitarian relationship. Apparently, YOU make all the rules and expect him to follow.


----------



## thetiredmommy

WandaJ said:


> Good catch Workingonme!


But that's not true though really. I don't spend time with my friends that often so please don't think that it's a regular thing. Also, I would like for him to run while we napped, but she stopped napping. That's what brought us here.


----------



## PBear

I think you're confused about what egalitarianism means...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FrenchFry

Egalitarian also means the wife listens to the husband. Not the wife finds every way not to compromise with her husband.

I think the posters here have made it clear that hey, you need to find a way to compromise here. 

What is your solution?


----------



## Anon Pink

thetiredmommy said:


> I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me.
> 
> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. This is an egalitarian relationship.
> 
> If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


Trust in him means that you allow him to make decisions TOO! It means that you take his needs as seriously as you take yours, and that's as it should be whether it is a D/s relationship or not.


----------



## WandaJ

thetiredmommy said:


> I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me.
> 
> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. This is an egalitarian relationship.
> 
> If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


you got it upside down - it is YOU who is in charge of him. You are a Dom, he is your sub.


----------



## thetiredmommy

PBear said:


> I think you're confused about what egalitarianism means...
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't know maybe it looks like that based on what I'm writing so far, but it really is. I care about what he has to say and I try to work with him. If I didn't care at all, I wouldn't have joined this site to learn from others here and work on a few things, like balancing time and our sex lives.


----------



## staarz21

7.5 hours of sleep a night, Pilates 2xs a week, dates with friends, H takes daughter on weekends in the morning so she can sleep in, naps are a must, NO stroller for jogging. 

You'll be lucky if he puts up with that for a long time. I'm sorry, but that's not reality sweety. I'm so not trying to be rude but you are seriously taking advantage of your H. He works 40 hours a week and takes your daughter during your "nap time" - which at 7.5 hours of sleep at night...you seriously don't need. He comes home from work when you call him. He takes your daughter in the mornings on the weekends while you sleep in, you and your mom decide what your daughter should and should not do - even though your H is her FATHER and should have some say as well.

His workouts are while you are at Pilates or while you are napping 2 to 3 times a week so it's not interfering with time with you. So, WHY can't you find time for ONE hour a week for him to run? 

I feel bad for him. I really do. You are controlling his life way too much. Even worse, he's letting you. Soon, the resentment will be way too much.


----------



## Nikita2270

I'm still DYING to know what study said that a jogging stroller was so unhealthy for a 4 year old.

My neighbor uses one everyday...its a in-line double. She puts not only her 4 year old in it but also her 1 1/2 year old and goes every single day...sometimes more than once.

Kids haven't died yet. In fact, they're lovely, happy, sweet, well-behaved children.

I find it pathetic that this guy offered to take the kid with him and she still wouldn't allow it....Oh wait, I mean her and her mother wouldn't allow it.

I wonder if this guy's is getting into shape for a reason. I know I would be if I was him.


----------



## Lon

thetiredmommy said:


> I don't know maybe it looks like that based on what I'm writing so far, but it really is. I care about what he has to say and I try to work with him. If I didn't care at all, I wouldn't have joined this site to learn from others here and work on a few things, like balancing time and our sex lives.


What it looks like based on what you've written so far is that you are emotionally exhausted from trying to maintain the illusion of control, and that your naps at the most awkward times of the day are a form of escape for you to try to regain your sanity.

Time management is something you two need to work on together.


----------



## Nikita2270

FrenchFry said:


> Egalitarian also means the wife listens to the husband. Not the wife finds every way not to compromise with her husband.
> 
> I think the posters here have made it clear that hey, you need to find a way to compromise here.
> 
> What is your solution?


I think she was expecting posters to sympathize with her unreasonable position.


----------



## PBear

TTM,

I really do hope you two get things worked out. Have you got any ideas out of here that you think could help you work out a compromise?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staarz21

Just a little story. 

My H and I had our son (he was my H's first baby, my second). I tried to control everything at first. Turns out, the kid won't die if my H is in charge for a while. He doesn't do things exactly the way I do them...but the kids still enjoy their time with him regardless. 

I had a surgery where he had to take care of our two youngest kids (3 years and 6 months at the time)...alone. Zero help from me because I couldn't walk. For 3 weeks he did it. The kids survived, my house was clean-ish. He did a good job. It wasn't the way I would have done it, but I didn't tell him that and I still think he did great. 

You have to allow him to make decisions with your daughter. She is half his too. A stroller one hour a week won't hurt her at all.


----------



## thetiredmommy

Nikita2270 said:


> I'm still DYING to know what study said that a jogging stroller was so unhealthy for a 4 year old.
> 
> My neighbor uses one everyday...its a in-line double. She puts not only her 4 year old in it but also her 1 1/2 year old and goes every single day...sometimes more than once.
> 
> Kids haven't died yet. In fact, they're lovely, happy, sweet, well-behaved children.
> 
> I find it pathetic that this guy offered to take the kid with him and she still wouldn't allow it....Oh wait, I mean her and her mother wouldn't allow it.
> 
> I wonder if this guy's is getting into shape for a reason. I know I would be if I was him.


It's not based on a study. I just want that time to be enriching for her. I will think about the stroller, though. 

What reason would he be getting in shape for? It's just to get healthier and get back to his collegiate days when he was really active.


----------



## staarz21

thetiredmommy said:


> It's not based on a study. I just want that *time to be enriching for her*. I will think about the stroller, though.
> 
> What reason would he be getting in shape for? It's just to get healthier and get back to his collegiate days when he was really active.


For a 4 year old being outside is enriching. It's an hour a week.


----------



## greenfern

Why isn't your husband allowed to decide what is enriching for his daughter? Its really a serious question.


----------



## greenfern

I would be getting in shape for after the divorce.


----------



## sinnister

This really isn't a man vs woman issue. I just was having trouble understanding the issue the way it was outlined. I get it if mom needs nap time and won't get it if dad runs. 

What I dint get is why 4 year old has to wake up if dad leaves. Yes I'm slow today...been a horrible day at work.


----------



## thetiredmommy

PBear said:


> TTM,
> 
> I really do hope you two get things worked out. Have you got any ideas out of here that you think could help you work out a compromise?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I am thinking about the stroller option, even if it's not my favorite. I know I might have some control issues. My mom warned me that I am not always flexible when it comes to our daughter. We had this talk when I didn't want her to watch TV while grandma watched her.


----------



## greenfern

Sorry tiredmommy, I don't know why I'm being so snarky on this thread. It really rubs me the wrong way when SAHM neglect their spouse, spend all the time with the kids and then also want to dictate how their partner spends time with the kids.

FYI my x was a SAHD with two kids very close in age. It is very distancing even when both partners are on the same page.


----------



## thetiredmommy

greenfern said:


> Why isn't your husband allowed to decide what is enriching for his daughter? Its really a serious question.


He does. I just disagreed with the running stroller at first, because he seemed to be thinking about his needs more than hers.


----------



## greenfern

thetiredmommy said:


> He does. I just disagreed with the running stroller at first, because he seemed to be thinking about his needs more than hers.


Good for him! Parents have needs that sometimes supersede the needs of the child. Perfectly healthy to have a balance.


----------



## TiggyBlue

thetiredmommy said:


> He does. I just disagreed with the running stroller at first, because he seemed to be thinking about his needs more than hers.


For a hour a week.


----------



## thetiredmommy

greenfern said:


> Sorry tiredmommy, I don't know why I'm being so snarky on this thread. It really rubs me the wrong way when SAHM neglect their spouse, spend all the time with the kids and then also want to dictate how their partner spends time with the kids.
> 
> FYI my x was a SAHD with two kids very close in age. It is very distancing even when both partners are on the same page.


It's okay, greenfern. I appreciate your comments. Just FYI, I'm not a SAHM. I do work about 16 hours a week.


----------



## thetiredmommy

greenfern said:


> Good for him! Parents have needs that sometimes supersede the needs of the child. Perfectly healthy to have a balance.


Hmm, he said the same thing. I guess I didn't see it that way at first. I talked to my mom about it, not because she tells us what to do, but I look to her perspective. This was a time that she agreed with me.


----------



## Durnik

I was done once I saw the "I was hurt because he SHOULD want to spend time with his daughter, when he gets so little of it." She's not married to her H, she's married to prince charming, and God help the poor man when he doesn't match what's in her head. Decisions are made by her and her mom, her husband's wishes and opinions and perceptions are dismissed at best, suspicious at worst. And she thinks her relationship is "egalitarian"

OP, you came here to learn? Learn this: you're not always right, your husband has some good ideas - even about your daughter - your husband's needs are MORE important than your child's, you need cut the apron strings and start listening to your husband more than your mother, you have serious control issues, and MC (and IC) would seriously help you before your husband finds his way to this board to learn why he's so freaking miserable when he's trying his best - and if he should divorce his wife or not.


----------



## PBear

thetiredmommy said:


> It's not based on a study. I just want that time to be enriching for her. I will think about the stroller, though.
> 
> What reason would he be getting in shape for? It's just to get healthier and get back to his collegiate days when he was really active.


Kids don't need to be "enriched" every waking hour. You're setting your child up to be unable to think and do for herself, from the sounds of things. They need time to just be kids. To use their imaginations and just play. 

And yes, you do have control issues. Again, just based on what I'm reading here. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## greenfern

thetiredmommy said:


> Hmm, he said the same thing. I guess I didn't see it that way at first. I talked to my mom about it, not because she tells us what to do, but I look to her perspective. This was a time that she agreed with me.


Moms don't know everything! My mom insisted on buying crib bumper pads because they were so cute, with my first kid I wouldn't use them because of the choking hazard but you get a lot more lenient with the second.

LOL, maybe you should have a 2nd kid & you would chill out about enrichment time (just KIDDING do not have a 2nd kid!).


----------



## greenfern

thetiredmommy said:


> It's okay, greenfern. I appreciate your comments. Just FYI, I'm not a SAHM. I do work about 16 hours a week.


I'm really glad you are working outside the home, you just seem to have a bit the mentality of some (not all!) SAHM that think they know best for their child & damn everyone else who wants to have a say.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> Hmm, he said the same thing. I guess I didn't see it that way at first. I talked to my mom about it, not because she tells us what to do, but I look to her perspective. This was a time that she agreed with me.


Your mother is not that child's parent. Your HUSBAND is. If you continue to forget that, and if you continue to invalidate him as a father, you will end up damaging your child's relationship with her own father as well as your relationship with him as your husband. HE has all the rights here to make decisions for his child. You are not the only parent, and your mother has no say.

I will also say this. Over-scheduling your child with "enrichment activities" will create a stressed out child with anxiety issues (example: temper tantrums). Kids need to be kids, too, not just the mini-adult you are seeing her as. They also need down time and play time. 

You know what happens when they have unscheduled time? Their imaginations take flight! they get creative! An hour in the stroller will probably end up in her telling you a very imaginative story when she gets home of all the things they saw on their adventure together.


----------



## thetiredmommy

Durnik said:


> I was done once I saw the "I was hurt because he SHOULD want to spend time with his daughter, when he gets so little of it." She's not married to her H, she's married to prince charming, and God help the poor man when he doesn't match what's in her head. Decisions are made by her and her mom, her husband's wishes and opinions and perceptions are dismissed at best, suspicious at worst. And she thinks her relationship is "egalitarian"
> 
> OP, you came here to learn? Learn this: you're not always right, your husband has some good ideas - even about your daughter - your husband's needs are MORE important than your child's, you need cut the apron strings and start listening to your husband more than your mother, you have serious control issues, and MC (and IC) would seriously help you before your husband finds his way to this board to learn why he's so freaking miserable when he's trying his best - and if he should divorce his wife or not.


I am in individual counseling for anxiety and depression, but it is getting better. He is a good man and I do value his opinion. We have our fights, but I trust that he will fight fairly. That's usually a sign of a good marriage, right? We have a lot of fun together. We laugh, we talk about each other's day, and we try to support each other. 

I know I'm not always right and I do value people's opinions on here. It just takes time to sink in sometimes...he does have good ideas and there are times when I have apologized when I interfered. I do listen to my husband, but I do talk to my mom for perspective. Sometimes, she does tell me I'm wrong and she's even told me when I've needed to apologize to my husband. We don't gang up on him.


----------



## thetiredmommy

greenfern said:


> Moms don't know everything! My mom insisted on buying crib bumper pads because they were so cute, with my first kid I wouldn't use them because of the choking hazard but you get a lot more lenient with the second.
> 
> LOL, maybe you should have a 2nd kid & you would chill out about enrichment time (just KIDDING do not have a 2nd kid!).


We're not going to have a second child. Even though I think about it sometimes, he said that he doesn't think it would be a good idea financially because I just started working not too long ago. That and he said that he was too overtired from being up with the baby so much.


----------



## greenfern

thetiredmommy said:


> I am in individual counseling for anxiety and depression, but it is getting better.


This explains a lot I suspect and would have been good information to know at the outset of this thread.


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## soccermom2three

thetiredmommy said:


> He mentioned getting a baby stroller when she was younger but I don't like the idea of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know? I do care about him getting to do what he needs, but I'm also know that we have to think about the family's needs, too. :scratchhead:



Children don't have to be constantly entertained. Down time and letting them use their own imagination is a good thing. Sometimes just watching the world from a stroller can be just as enriching as being shown flash cards.


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## soccermom2three

I just want to add to my post there is nothing wrong with letting your child learn to entertain themselves. We learned the hard way. My daughter was our first born and the first grandchild on both sides. We both worked full time so each set of grandparents took turns babysitting. Talk about being spoiled and constantly entertained! She never learned to just play by herself. To this day, (and she's 19 now), she STILL asks me what are we doing this weekend or for summer activities. She still looks to other people to entertain her.


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## SunnyT

One tip:

When my kids were little.... I never got a nap, nor did I ever get to sleep thru the night, for approximately ten years. That was the one thing I always asked for and didn't get. But....

With 5 kids (in six years....I know, I did it to myself), if I really really needed a nap for some reason, I'd get them into one of the kids' room, lay my pillow on the floor, and take a nap in front of the door so no one could escape. No harm, no foul. 

And P.S. ANY time outside is enriching.


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## norajane

Here's another option. Give up one of your days of pilates and work out at home, so he can go for a run during that hour.


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## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> It's not based on a study. I just want that time to be enriching for her. I will think about the stroller, though.
> 
> What reason would he be getting in shape for? It's just to get healthier and get back to his collegiate days when he was really active.


So you decide what's enriching for your daughter and somehow you've...in your amazing wisdom...have decided that outside time with her father going for a ride in a stroller, getting fresh air, and seeing the earth's landscape isn't enriching enough???

Really? Because people have been walking their kids in prams since the 1800's when they were invented. And guess what, being outside in nature is a very, very healthy thing for children....especially when they're getting a chance to do it while spending time with their dads. Seriously, get over yourself.

And I was suggesting that he was getting back in shape because maybe he's getting sick of his controlling marriage. I'd know I'd be sick of it.


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## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> It's okay, greenfern. I appreciate your comments. Just FYI, I'm not a SAHM. I do work about 16 hours a week.


Wait wait....

Hold up. So you work 16 hours a week while this poor guy works full time.

Yet you need nap time, time to watch trash TV, pilates time and time on Saturdays to watch the kid and he can't...after a full work week and all of that...take a ONE HOUR jog ONCE A WEEK?!?

What the H-E-double hockey sticks is wrong with you???

You remind me of this horrid chick on Dr. Phil that controlled everything her husband did. The guy couldn't do anything without her nagging and bossing him around. 

By the way, he was getting ready to divorce her.


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## pidge70

thetiredmommy said:


> You sound a lot like my H. He says that it's good for her to come along while we do our grown up things. I used to ask him to get some grocery shopping done after she went to sleep so it wouldn't interfere with her day, but I stopped that last year.
> 
> He also likes for me to have friend time and I've started doing that. A few nights ago, I went out with a girlfriend for dinner and a movie. It was really fun!
> 
> And yes, I'm also trying to get back in shape. *Lately, I've been going to pilates class once or twice a week*. It does give me some more energy.



Soooo, you get to go to pilates once or twice a week and your H can't run for an hour? Dafuq?


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## pidge70

How old are you?


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## thetiredmommy

pidge70 said:


> How old are you?


I'm 32 years old. Why?


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## Durnik

I'm glad to hear that you're in IC - always nice to see a glimmer of recognition of flaws. You're not doing everything wrong, and that's good. But you've described a life of pressure that will wear down anyone - both your husband, for being so blind up in rules and regulations he can't even breathe, and you, for running around trying to control every aspect of three separate lives, when people don't even have absolute control of their own. Your husband may not be complaining about this life, but it is going to hurt him. He is a good father, doing his best, and h4 needs you to support and reduce the stress on his life - not be another source of it.


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## thetiredmommy

Durnik said:


> I'm glad to hear that you're in IC - always nice to see a glimmer of recognition of flaws. You're not doing everything wrong, and that's good. But you've described a life of pressure that will wear down anyone - both your husband, for being so blind up in rules and regulations he can't even breathe, and you, for running around trying to control every aspect of three separate lives, when people don't even have absolute control of their own. Your husband may not be complaining about this life, but it is going to hurt him. He is a good father, doing his best, and h4 needs you to support and reduce the stress on his life - not be another source of it.


I really am trying. Therapy had been really helpful in helping me to adjust my thoughts when I'm anxious. I've had General anxiety for years and depression. I don't mean to stress out my husband. In fact I think it's a hard thing to do as he is one of the most easy going people I know and handles stress better than anybody.


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## samyeagar

thetiredmommy said:


> It's not based on a study. I just want that time to be enriching for her. I will think about the stroller, though.
> 
> *What reason would he be getting in shape for?* It's just to get healthier and get back to his collegiate days when he was really active.


So he has an easier time attracting a mate after he divorces you.


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## thetiredmommy

samyeagar said:


> thetiredmommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not based on a study. I just want that time to be enriching for her. I will think about the stroller, though.
> 
> *What reason would he be getting in shape for?* It's just to get healthier and get back to his collegiate days when he was really active.
> 
> 
> 
> So he has an easier time attracting a mate after he divorces you.
Click to expand...

I don't think he's getting in shape for that. He wouldn't throw it all away over one run. He's just trying to get healthier.


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## samyeagar

thetiredmommy said:


> Hmm, he said the same thing. I guess I didn't see it that way at first. I talked to my mom about it, not because she tells us what to do, but I look to her perspective. *This was a time that she agreed with me.*


Well, she's flat wrong.

My ex wife still insists on being a helicopter parent, and you know how non custodial parents are advised to make sure the limited time they have with the kids is fun...activities...memorable things?

The thing my 12 year old son looks forward to the most about the visitations with me...that he can freaking relax! The poor kid is in the gifted program at school, plays two sports, is a member of band at school, a member of the St Andrews Society pipe and drum corps, accompanying drummer in a local country/rock band, a percussionist in the local youth symphony, and take private percussion lessons too...yeah, his mom's wrecking him...all in the name of putting the kids first...


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## thetiredmommy

samyeagar said:


> thetiredmommy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, he said the same thing. I guess I didn't see it that way at first. I talked to my mom about it, not because she tells us what to do, but I look to her perspective. *This was a time that she agreed with me.*
> 
> 
> 
> Well, she's flat wrong.
> 
> My ex wife still insists on being a helicopter parent, and you know how non custodial parents are advised to make sure the limited time they have with the kids is fun...activities...memorable things?
> 
> The thing my 12 year old son looks forward to the most about the visitations with me...that he can freaking relax! The poor kid is in the gifted program at school, plays two sports, is a member of band at school, a member of the St Andrews Society pipe and drum corps, accompanying drummer in a local country/rock band, a percussionist in the local youth symphony, and take private percussion lessons too...yeah, his mom's wrecking him...all in the name of putting the kids first...
Click to expand...

I mean maybe but she does disagree with me from time to time


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## Anon Pink

I don't understand the open animosity toward OP. She has shown herself to be open to hearing what other people have to say and she taking this hits admirably even when the hostility is so thinly veiled!

She is trying, so cut her some slack! Please?


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## MEM2020

Tired,

I read your response and was struck dumb for several hours. 

You are resisting having your husband - who works MORE than 40 hours a week to support the family - spend one or so hours per WEEK running. 

I'm going to be polite, because my parents raised me well:

If I were to reverse the genders in this thread, and left everything the same, the situation would look like this: 

You would be the one wanting to run ONCE a week and you would be posting about how your husband and his mother were telling you that you couldn't. 

And I would tell you that he was a controlling bully and you needed to stand up for yourself. 





thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe it sounds nuts, but it really isn't. It's hard to balance time when we're so busy. The other part is that he works over 40 hours a week, so it's harder to fit that time in.


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## MEM2020

So you have enough money for a Pilates class, but question the cost of a sitter once a week for what he wants to do. 

And take this in the spirit of open communication but it seems very much like you are doing the dom/sub thing in your house.

You do it in a very clever way though under the guise of a democracy. 

Your H wants X, you, your mom and he vote. The two of you vote together. He loses. 

Dom/sub pretending to be a democracy. 

Your mom doesn't get equal vote on his daughter. 






thetiredmommy said:


> I appreciate your kind words. I know that you're trying to help and be honest with me.
> 
> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. We don't do that dom-sub thing that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. This is an egalitarian relationship.
> 
> If I read into what you said wrong, I'm sorry.


----------



## AliceA

thetiredmommy said:


> I know some people like the idea of a jogging stroller; he suggested it, too. But I don't like the thought of her taking an hour of time to just sit in the stroller for dad when she could be doing something entertaining or enriching.


Yeah, I don't really get your thought processes here. She'll be spending time watching the world whiz by. Lots of stuff to look at; sights, sounds and smells, and knowing Dad is taking her out and about.

Not every minute of every day has to be filled with brain puzzlers etc. I think the outside time would do her good.

Edited to add: Coming from a mother of two young children, I think your whole family might benefit from you relaxing a bit over this and letting your husband give it a go. If they try it and your daughter doesn't like it, fair enough, but she might actually love it and you might be getting in the way of a great solution.


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## Vivid

I have two kids, 7 and 4 and I'm the one who runs. I go in the morning before my husband is up and they play quietly or watch tv. They know to only wake him in an emergency. 

Can't he go out a back door? Or a window?

You're being unreasonable. Everyone needs exercise time.m as for worrying about sitting in the stroller, seeing a parent committed to regular exercise is one of the most valuable things a child can see.


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## norajane

Anon Pink said:


> I don't understand the open animosity toward OP. She has shown herself to be open to hearing what other people have to say and she taking this hits admirably even when the hostility is so thinly veiled!
> 
> She is trying, so cut her some slack! Please?


It's because she's only _pretending _to try. 

And because she's not cutting her husband any slack. In fact, she's got the leash wrapped so tight around her husband (and their child), she can't find it within herself to loosen it so he can run just once a week.


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## Anon Pink

norajane said:


> It's because she's only _pretending _to try.
> 
> And because she's not cutting her husband any slack. In fact, she's got the leash wrapped so tight around her husband (and their child), she can't find it within herself to loosen it so he can run just once a week.


I disagree that she is pretending.

I don't disagree that OP could benefit from loosening up the leash. But I understand that this issue is a byproduct of her anxiety/depression combo. And considering her need to control is all about her anxiety coping, I just don't think the slaps and hits are actually helping her.

How many of us new mothers held the reins on our first born awfully damn tight thinking we had to make sure everything was perfect and that all was being done to ensure a healthy well adjusted child? I bet most of us. I know I was like this with my first. I was downright absurd controlling her environment to ensure optimum enrichment, stimulation and development.  By the time baby number 3 arrived those days were LONG gone and instead of the mission of quality assurance my new motto was, A Little Well Placed Neglect Makes a Flower Grow Strong.

I think we've all been there at one point and I think we should cut her some slack.


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## EnjoliWoman

thetiredmommy said:


> He mentioned getting a baby stroller when she was younger but I don't like the idea of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know? I do care about him getting to do what he needs, but I'm also know that we have to think about the family's needs, too. :scratchhead:


I haven't read past this point but... what's not enriching about seeing the outside world? Personally I refused to have a DVD player in the car. Same concept. LOOK. OBSERVE. I think this is perfectly enriching for a 4y/o. She is observing the seasons, sees things change. Points out the dog/squirrel/cat. Notices flowers. Notices birds, butterflies, other runners/walkers and waves. Trucks, construction, sprinklers. All of those things are VERY enriching! She's four. She doesn't need to be productive. Every moment can't be learning ABCs or writing letters or listening to a book or watching an educational shows, etc. Observation skills are important, too.


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## EnjoliWoman

thetiredmommy said:


> My mother is pre-diabetic and has blood pressure problems so she's tired at the end of the day. It would add an extra hour to an already tiring day, so that's why H comes straight from work. I would do it, but I am not off from work at that time.
> 
> He said that I don't prioritize his needs well, but that's not really true. But yes, it's true that my daughter's needs should come first. I really do need to sleep and I don't feel comfortable giving up my nap so he can run. I need that rest so I can be the best mom I can be.
> 
> Power struggle...no I don't think so. I really like him to be open with me so we can communicate together. He actually had a hard time bringing this up to me, but I told him that he needs to tell me if he needs something in our marriage.
> 
> I appreciate my H very much!! He works so hard for us and I love that. In many ways, he reminds me of my father who did so much for us like make pancakes before he went to work and made time to play with us.


You AREN'T prioritizing his needs. He tells you and you determine his feelings aren't valid. That in and of itself is putting zero emphasis on his needs.

Lots of good suggestions here. It sounds like you are the problem. You have admitted you have your own pilates rec time and that he's otherwise helpful and considerate. And that the problem is anxiety. Anxiety keeps you from sleeping. Have you seen a doctor or a counselor? What are you anxious about? Are you on a medication? Solve the anxiety problem and you solve the sleep problem AND the husband issue. Good grief talk about 3rd world problems. Anxiety and sleep.


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## thetiredmommy

EnjoliWoman said:


> You AREN'T prioritizing his needs. He tells you and you determine his feelings aren't valid. That in and of itself is putting zero emphasis on his needs.
> 
> Lots of good suggestions here. It sounds like you are the problem. You have admitted you have your own pilates rec time and that he's otherwise helpful and considerate. And that the problem is anxiety. Anxiety keeps you from sleeping. Have you seen a doctor or a counselor? What are you anxious about? Are you on a medication? Solve the anxiety problem and you solve the sleep problem AND the husband issue. Good grief talk about 3rd world problems. Anxiety and sleep.


Thank you Enjoli. My psychologist has mentioned my need for control. I do see a psychologist and a psychiatrist for my anxiety. The pilates is also a part of treatment you would say. I also go to acupuncture sometimes, too. So I'm really trying to work on my anxiety and depression. 

I don't have specific anxiety concerns, other than the health and safety of my loved ones and myself. My husband and therapist have also shared that they think that I over-estimate the risk that my body fail will me. I used to be really scared that I would pass out if I didn't get enough sleep or food, and sometimes I worry that a headache could mean something more severe than it is.


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## staarz21

So you are a hypochondriac. The very definition of a hypochondriac is that they are anxious about their health. 

definition and explanation: Hypochondria Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic

This sounds like what you've described.

I don't have any advice for this. Your H married you knowing you were like this I am assuming. Does your Dr. have you on a medication to help? 

I don't know that your H will be able to do this for a long time though. If you can just see it his way for a minute. He is working every day, 40 hours a week. He watches your daughter while you sleep in and take naps. He is sacrificing his ONE hour a week due to your fear. You still get to go to Pilates. 

If this were the other way around and you didn't have your time, you would be so upset. He really is sacrificing more than you know because he also has to deal with someone who - to normal people - has an irrational fear. I hope that didn't sound too harsh. I am not trying to be. I understand a little better now, but it still doesn't change the facts that he is giving up a lot for you and your condition. Those sacrifices can only be made for so long before he completely gives up. 

I really hope you can learn to allow him just one hour. It would probably make a HUGE difference in how much he still wants to help you.


----------



## thetiredmommy

staarz21 said:


> So you are a hypochondriac. The very definition of a hypochondriac is that they are anxious about their health.
> 
> definition and explanation: Hypochondria Definition - Diseases and Conditions - Mayo Clinic
> 
> This sounds like what you've described.
> 
> I don't have any advice for this. Your H married you knowing you were like this I am assuming. Does your Dr. have you on a medication to help?
> 
> I don't know that your H will be able to do this for a long time though. If you can just see it his way for a minute. He is working every day, 40 hours a week. He watches your daughter while you sleep in and take naps. He is sacrificing his ONE hour a week due to your fear. You still get to go to Pilates.
> 
> If this were the other way around and you didn't have your time, you would be so upset. He really is sacrificing more than you know because he also has to deal with someone who - to normal people - has an irrational fear. I hope that didn't sound too harsh. I am not trying to be. I understand a little better now, but it still doesn't change the facts that he is giving up a lot for you and your condition. Those sacrifices can only be made for so long before he completely gives up.
> 
> I really hope you can learn to allow him just one hour. It would probably make a HUGE difference in how much he still wants to help you.


I know. Yes, I do fit that description, but I've also been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I'm a worrier. :-/ 
I rely on my husband so much and he is so emotionally, financially and everything else supportive that I never even considered that he would leave me like people on here are saying. Now I'm worried because someone here said that he's working out so that he can find a better mate!


----------



## norajane

You are forcing your husband and daughter to live a life based on irrational fears - your life. Is that what you really want for your daughter?

Your husband can make that decision for himself, but I don't know too many men who would be happy limiting themselves and their children's lives because of someone else's irrational fears. 

You insist on everyone accommodating your fears, your beliefs, your way, your naps, your pilates, your definition of what enrichment means, your anxieties. Maybe you would do better to pay attention to your husband's perspective instead of operating solely on your own perspectives.

Maybe you owe him some respect, and allow that his views are valid, since he is such a good husband to you.


----------



## staarz21

thetiredmommy said:


> I know. Yes, I do fit that description, but I've also been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I'm a worrier. :-/
> I rely on my husband so much and he is so emotionally, financially and everything else supportive that I never even considered that he would leave me like people on here are saying. Now I'm worried because someone here said that he's working out so that he can find a better mate!


Well, I realize that this won't mean anything, but don't worry about that. What you need to worry about is trying to make small adjustments. Just a little at a time. Take this for example, just allow your H one hour a week for a run. There is time. Small changes like that will allow him to see that you are trying to change. 

If you are trying, and he loves you - he will see that and try to stick it out. As it stands now though, there is no give for him. It's always take, take, take. He gets shot down any time he wants to do something for himself or make a decision about his daughter. Small changes will make a big difference to him. Over time with improvement like that, I bet he would be more willing to stick it out. 

If he married you know that you were this way, then he had to realize that it was going to be somewhat hard. But I bet he never expected to be shot down for one hour a week of running. That's not really a lot of time. He didn't ask to go every day, or every other day. Just one hour a week.  It might make all the difference in the world to him.


----------



## MEM2020

Tired,
You would know if he was heading for the exit. 

It sounds like he loves you a lot so he might be working out - so you find him more desirable. 

And he likely wants to run because aside from all else, running produces endorphins which help him feel better. 






thetiredmommy said:


> I know. Yes, I do fit that description, but I've also been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder. I'm a worrier. :-/
> I rely on my husband so much and he is so emotionally, financially and everything else supportive that I never even considered that he would leave me like people on here are saying. Now I'm worried because someone here said that he's working out so that he can find a better mate!


----------



## EnjoliWoman

You can have fears and anxiety without acting on them. 

Children of 'helicopter' moms don't do as well socially or emotionally. She is looking to you for cues on how to feel. You hover which implies she isn't safe alone which makes her fear being in bed alone or when you are sleeping. Don't put your fears on her. Children who have a little freedom learn better coping skills and become more independent. Your child isn't becoming very independent if she can't play by herself for an hour. She needs to get cues from you that she is fine! Show her you are confident in her ability to entertain herself. 

You may not FEEL that way, but you can ACT that way. Control the actions.

Let him take a jog stroller. Several times a week if he wants - daily if he wants! I love the tandem bike idea as she gets older! If you feel free thinking time isn't productive enough, have her come back and draw a picture of something she saw on her ride. Of if she's learning small words, make short list in big clear letters and have her check them off like "i spy" - put words like dog, cat, tree, van, fence and so on - she can take a crayon and mark each item when she sees it. Each trip can be an adventure!!!


----------



## thetiredmommy

EnjoliWoman said:


> You can have fears and anxiety without acting on them.
> 
> Children of 'helicopter' moms don't do as well socially or emotionally. She is looking to you for cues on how to feel. You hover which implies she isn't safe alone which makes her fear being in bed alone or when you are sleeping. Don't put your fears on her. Children who have a little freedom learn better coping skills and become more independent. Your child isn't becoming very independent if she can't play by herself for an hour. She needs to get cues from you that she is fine! Show her you are confident in her ability to entertain herself.


Ok, I feel bad that it took this long, but I see where my H is coming from. He's basically said the same thing about my brother. What I mean is that he thinks that my mom hovered over him so much that she inadvertently showed him that the world is scary and needs to protect him from the world. I kinda didn't see what he was saying at first, but I am trying to give my girl more space.


----------



## MEM2020

THIS is the most valuable post on the thread so far. 

Tired is (without meaning to) in the process of transmitting her anxiety disorder to her daughter. 

Unfortunately a major symptom of her anxiety is her need to control her H down to the very last hour of his schedule. 

While it hasn't happened yet, eventually that will end in tears. It is a very unloving thing to wrap yourself around a spouse - like a vine
- and slowly, gently, but relentlessly squeeze them until they cannot move. 





EnjoliWoman said:


> You can have fears and anxiety without acting on them.
> 
> Children of 'helicopter' moms don't do as well socially or emotionally. She is looking to you for cues on how to feel. You hover which implies she isn't safe alone which makes her fear being in bed alone or when you are sleeping. Don't put your fears on her. Children who have a little freedom learn better coping skills and become more independent. Your child isn't becoming very independent if she can't play by herself for an hour. She needs to get cues from you that she is fine! Show her you are confident in her ability to entertain herself.
> 
> You may not FEEL that way, but you can ACT that way. Control the actions.
> 
> Let him take a jog stroller. Several times a week if he wants - daily if he wants! I love the tandem bike idea as she gets older! If you feel free thinking time isn't productive enough, have her come back and draw a picture of something she saw on her ride. Of if she's learning small words, make short list in big clear letters and have her check them off like "i spy" - put words like dog, cat, tree, van, fence and so on - she can take a crayon and mark each item when she sees it. Each trip can be an adventure!!!


----------



## thetiredmommy

MEM11363 said:


> THIS is the most valuable post on the thread so far.
> 
> Tired is (without meaning to) in the process of transmitting her anxiety disorder to her daughter.
> 
> Unfortunately a major symptom of her anxiety is her need to control her H down to the very last hour of his schedule.
> 
> While it hasn't happened yet, eventually that will end in tears. It is a very unloving thing to wrap yourself around a spouse - like a vine
> - and slowly, gently, but relentlessly squeeze them until they cannot move.


I don't try to do that to him...maybe I need to discuss this more with my psychologist in our next session. We don't usually talk about my relationship, but come to think of it, he does sometimes try to have me consider my husband's position. The last time this came up was when my husband went to happy hour with his co-workers even I told him that I preferred that he didn't. I was mad at him at first and vented to my therapist. My therapist was kinda hinting that I say "no" to often to my spouse, so he probably decided to go no matter what I said.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> I don't try to do that to him...maybe I need to discuss this more with my psychologist in our next session. We don't usually talk about my relationship, but come to think of it, he does sometimes try to have me consider my husband's position. The last time this came up was when my husband went to happy hour with his co-workers even I told him that I preferred that he didn't. I was mad at him at first and vented to my therapist. My therapist was kinda hinting that I say "no" to often to my spouse, so he probably decided to go no matter what I said.


Do you see the difference between you and your husband?

He encouraged you to go out with your girlfriends. You don't want him to go out, period, and get mad when he does just once without your permission.

You do not have his best interests or preferences or perspectives in mind, ever. Just yours.

Even when your husband flat out tells you that you are not considering his needs, even when your therapist tells you, you still fail to accept that you are doing this. You dismiss it or ignore it.


----------



## LonelyinLove

thetiredmommy said:


> I'm still not sure about the jogging stroller. He brought it up when she was younger, but both my mom and I decided that wasn't a good idea. QUOTE]
> 
> What business does your mother have in this decision?


----------



## thetiredmommy

norajane said:


> Do you see the difference between you and your husband?
> 
> He encouraged you to go out with your girlfriends. You don't want him to go out, period.
> 
> You do not have his best interests or preferences or perspectives in mind, ever. Just yours.


No, I know. It's was just at that time, I was spending all day with my daughter and the thought of not having him come home right away to give me a breather upset me. It seemed really convenient that he could unwind while I had to deal with the baby.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> No, I know. It's was just at that time, I was spending all day with my daughter and the thought of not having him come home right away to give me a breather upset me. It seemed really convenient that he could unwind while I had to deal with the baby.


Again, this is just your perspective. What about his? Isn't it convenient that you don't consider how he feels *and never take that into account?*

Maybe he's had a crappy day, week, month, year and needed that one evening out so HE could unwind for a change. Maybe he needs to do a little networking at his job as well, and being social is part of that. Maybe he hadn't had an evening out in years. Maybe he was stressed out dealing with a wife with major anxieties all the time and needed one little break from it himself. 

You aren't even now considering that any of those might have been the case, and just focus on your perspective.

It's not all about you, all the time.


----------



## staarz21

thetiredmommy said:


> No, I know. It's was just at that time, I was spending all day with my daughter and the thought of not having him come home right away to give me a breather upset me. It seemed really convenient that he could unwind while I had to deal with the baby.



So, he has to be at work all day dealing with his co-workers and boss to come home and immediately take over your job? When does he get a chance to have his time and be free for a minute? 

He should get some time to unwind, then take over parenting for a while so you can unwind. 

I have a weird question: does he come home from work to watch your daughter while you nap? You said he works outside the home. I am just wondering if he does this for you.


----------



## thetiredmommy

staarz21 said:


> So, he has to be at work all day dealing with his co-workers and boss to come home and immediately take over your job? When does he get a chance to have his time and be free for a minute?
> 
> He should get some time to unwind, then take over parenting for a while so you can unwind.
> 
> I have a weird question: does he come home from work to watch your daughter while you nap? You said he works outside the home. I am just wondering if he does this for you.


He has about a 45 minute commute. He says that driving is relaxing for him. I'm at work now so he comes home before I do, so he picks up our girl from my mom's and gets started on dinner. 

No, I don't nap during the weekdays. It's only on some afternoons during the weekend.


----------



## MEM2020

Tired,
I believe that your anxiety is driving all of this. And I know how powerful generalized anxiety can be. 

Let me try to shine a light on this situation. 

Do you believe for one second that your H would deprive you of an activity that you have defined as a high priority solely because it required a small weekly baby sitting fee? 

See - I don't think he would do that in a million years. I think your H is all too happy to try to meet your needs. I believe that mostly when he has to choose between what he wants, and what you want he sacrifices and does for you. 

Sadly, he is beginning to realize that you feel nothing but resentment when he wants to do something that you deem unnecessary. 

I want you to consider something very carefully. Weekly dinners, Pilates, etc. all seem to fit nicely into the budget. And yet your immediate reaction to a weekly sitter was - that you'd have to see if that fit the budget. 

See - if you flip that situation here, in my house. If the budget really was that tight and M2 wanted to do something required a weekly sitter, I'd immediately volunteer to skip one of our weekly dinners per month to fund her activity. 

Bet your H would do that for you. 

You are clearly an intelligent person. Sadly, you are using that intelligence to stifle your husband, not to help enable his priorities. 

Eventually - he will shut down. He will simply start doing things that he wants, and will become unconcerned with your reaction. You do not want that to happen, because it is very hard to undo that type damage. 





thetiredmommy said:


> No, I know. It's was just at that time, I was spending all day with my daughter and the thought of not having him come home right away to give me a breather upset me. It seemed really convenient that he could unwind while I had to deal with the baby.


----------



## MEM2020

Hey - it is totally OK for you to nap. Take care of yourself. Don't feel guilty about that. 

Don't get distracted by the napping thing, because that is simply a physical need you have. 

The real issue here isn't about your sleep schedule. It's about the fact that you seem totally unconcerned with your husbands wants / needs / priorities. 








thetiredmommy said:


> He has about a 45 minute commute. He says that driving is relaxing for him. I'm at work now so he comes home before I do, so he picks up our girl from my mom's and gets started on dinner.
> 
> No, I don't nap during the weekdays. It's only on some afternoons during the weekend.


----------



## thetiredmommy

MEM11363 said:


> Hey - it is totally OK for you to nap. Take care of yourself. Don't feel guilty about that.
> 
> Don't get distracted by the napping thing, because that is simply a physical need you have.
> 
> The real issue here isn't about your sleep schedule. It's about the fact that you seem totally unconcerned with your husbands wants / needs / priorities.


Thank you. But I am concerned, though! He did go to a happy hour last month and I didn't complain, even though he was back at 8pm. I don't mind when he watches the ball game every once in a while even though I don't like sports, because he watches some shows with me that I know he doesn't super like.


----------



## ThatOne

I've been reading here for a long time and this reads like ten kinds of bad stereotypes rolled into one thread. Good luck to your husband and daughter if everything you've posted here is true and accurate. Wow.


----------



## thetiredmommy

ThatOne said:


> I've been reading here for a long time and this reads like ten kinds of bad stereotypes rolled into one thread. Good luck to your husband and daughter if everything you've posted here is true and accurate. Wow.


You used your first post to be insulting? I thought that this forum was to help. I appreciate the people who are helping me even if I initially disagree, but this isn't nice.


----------



## MEM2020

M2 is a bit like you. She would have made a hell of a trial lawyer. 

Remember when I said: this bit about him running doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't. You aren't bad. You are anxious. And that anxiety is making you clingy in a way that you don't even realize. 

Sincere question: does your H generally put you and your daughter and your mothers needs ahead of his own? I'm guessing yes. 

Is he happy for you when you go out with friends over the weekend? I'm guessing yes. 

I'm guessing that he's begun to believe that you don't care about his wants/needs anywhere near as much as he does for yours. 





thetiredmommy said:


> Thank you. But I am concerned, though! He did go to a happy hour last month and I didn't complain, even though he was back at 8pm. I don't mind when he watches the ball game every once in a while even though I don't like sports, because he watches some shows with me that I know he doesn't super like.


----------



## MEM2020

Tired,

The poster named: ThatOne, is what's commonly known as a coward. 

They created a new account solely to flame you, knowing that they could get nasty and if they end up getting banned - it's not under their real account. 

How do I know this? Because under the screen name, is that persons total number of posts on TAM. 




thetiredmommy said:


> You used your first post to be insulting? I thought that this forum was to help. I appreciate the people who are helping me even if I initially disagree, but this isn't nice.


----------



## Deejo

Have read your whole thread. Appreciate that you confided the issues you are dealing with regarding anxiety and depression.

Obviously, quite severe.

Your story immediately reminds me of one faced by a very good friend of mine. His second marriage. She wanted kids, he had none, and wanted none for his first 43 years. He now has 4. He works very hard, and his wife, after the children struggled with anxiety and depression. 

She couldn't manage the kids ... all under 7 at the time, oldest, set of twins and an infant. 

He would often come home from work when she called, overwhelmed.

He occasionally had to travel for work. Things culminated when he was on business in Hong Kong, and she called screaming at him that he needed to come home, "Right now!"

He ignored her calls and texts for the remainder of the trip. Came home and she _attempted_ to light into him.

He shut her down, and made it very clear that she needed to take aggressive steps to address her issues, or he was walking.

Ten weeks later, 3 prescriptions and active counseling, and there were no more unrealistic expectations or maniacal phone calls. He is a great father and very engaged, loves his wife, they are great people. But ... there is no doubt in my mind that if she had not made the choices she did, he would have walked away from the marriage.

Not insinuating this is going to happen to your or your spouse ... but it sounds like you have a man who understands and loves you ... despite your issues.

And it also sounds like you are already firmly putting bricks in the wall of resentment ... for both of you.

The issue isn't his desire to go jogging.

The issue isn't your daughter's need for engagement and stimulation.

The issue is your illness. That is abundantly clear to virtually every respondent to your post. The sooner you come to terms with, and address that aspect, the better served you and your family will be.

We can provide input, insight, feedback, experience ... but we can't make anyone do a blessed thing, unless and until they are willing to do it.

We have that as an enhancement request.


----------



## thetiredmommy

MEM11363 said:


> M2 is a bit like you. She would have made a hell of a trial lawyer.
> 
> Remember when I said: this bit about him running doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't. You aren't bad. You are anxious. And that anxiety is making you clingy in a way that you don't even realize.
> 
> Sincere question: does your H generally put you and your daughter and your mothers needs ahead of his own? I'm guessing yes.
> 
> Is he happy for you when you go out with friends over the weekend? I'm guessing yes.
> 
> I'm guessing that he's begun to believe that you don't care about his wants/needs anywhere near as much as he does for yours.


Well I guess he does put his needs before us, but I always thought that's what a good husband and father does. That sounds like my dad, too. My mom told me not to be with a man who would avoid being a father and thinking about your needs. 

He is happy when I go out. He even tells me when I haven't gone out in a while. A few days ago, he even called my bestie and suggested that she take me out.


----------



## Deejo

And my note to anyone that DOES choose to respond to tiredmommy;
the woman has owned that she struggles with anxiety, depression, and control issues.

If you can't factor those mitigating circumstances into your feedback, then please recall the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



thetiredmommy said:


> Well I guess he does put his needs before us, but I always thought that's what a good husband and father does. That sounds like my dad, too. My mom told me not to be with a man who would avoid being a father and thinking about your needs.
> 
> He is happy when I go out. He even tells me when I haven't gone out in a while. A few days ago, he even called my bestie and suggested that she take me out.


A good man will put the needs of his family ahead of his own at times when it's needed. When you take it for granted, you are pressuring him to put everyone else's needs first ALL the time. This will eventually break him.

He pushes you to go out, and he takes on your load, because he wants you to heal from your anxiety and be healthy, he is optimistic, but naive because as Deejo said, until you fix this illness for yourself, he and this your relationship will break.


----------



## MEM2020

Tired,

The 'good man' theme - is soothing for you. Your mom picked a good man, you followed her good advice and did the same. 

That feels good. As it should. When he does what you ask, that feels soothing also. Completely normal. 

Since M2 would describe me as you describe your H, I will channel him for you. 

He likes putting you first and taking care of you. It feels 'right' to him deep down. His wring is to: protect and serve

That said, you are being controlling in a way that he quietly, but deeply resents. This isn't about him, it's about you. 

If you don't get treatment - effective treatment - for your anxiety - you will end up in a bad place. It may take a while, but it will happen. 

As for the tv shows, and the one time he went out that you didn't complain. That sounds awfully parental to me: I let him watch sports. I let him go out once without complaining. 

I notice you have completely steered the conversation away from him running. 

Because that topic - him running - makes you anxious. You don't want to revisit it with him, because it triggers your anxiety when he does something you've told him you oppose. 

You will know that your treatment regimen is working when you actually feel happy that your H is going running. 






thetiredmommy said:


> Well I guess he does put his needs before us, but I always thought that's what a good husband and father does. That sounds like my dad, too. My mom told me not to be with a man who would avoid being a father and thinking about your needs.
> 
> He is happy when I go out. He even tells me when I haven't gone out in a while. A few days ago, he even called my bestie and suggested that she take me out.


----------



## norajane

thetiredmommy said:


> Well I guess he does put his needs before us, but I always thought that's what a good husband and father does. That sounds like my dad, too. My mom told me not to be with a man who would avoid being a father and thinking about your needs.
> 
> He is happy when I go out. He even tells me when I haven't gone out in a while. A few days ago, he even called my bestie and suggested that she take me out.


The corollary to that is that _you should also be putting his needs before yours. _ That is what a good wife does. 

If you don't, then you are the only one getting your needs fulfilled - overfilled - because your husband is putting your needs first and you are putting your needs first. In this situation, no one is filling his needs at all.


----------



## Durnik

OP - Tiredmommy - although this thread has lit up fast and furious, and there are several folks (including myself) who have lit into you pretty hard, I'd like to thank you. Even in the tone of your posts has shifted remarkably from page one. You seem to be willing to admit that there is much you are doing to make the situation worse, and much you could do to improve it. You've stuck it out and remained pretty darn level-headed in the face of some tough shots, defended yourself against the ones which didn't apply, and you seem to be considering the ones which do. That is awesome, and exactly what you need to continue doing, well, everywhere. Maturity like that can be hard to come by, especially on the internet, and it suits you.

Your husband loves you, wants you to be happy, and is willing to devote his life to you and your daughter. That's pretty clear from what you've said. That being said, we see a lot of folks come through here with stories of entitlement and assumed expectation not unlike yours, and it destroys people and marriages. He may even think he can handle the pressure, but it's like the ocean against a cliff face - the ocean always wins.

Yesterday, my son, who is 3, was playing on the stairs, sliding down them in his sleeping bag. Halfway down, he slipped out, tumbled the rest of the way down the steps, and hit -smack- on the landing at the bottom. Huge bruise across half his face. He sat there, stunned, for a moment, then climbed back up the stairs and slid down again - a bit more careful, this time, but still laughing. I'm SUPER proud of him, and can't imagine a scenario I could set up which would have taught him the lessons he learned on his own, right there, half as well. He learned to be careful, not to give up, not to be scared, and that he can keep going, even when he's hurt. (Not to mention valuable lessons like entertaining himself, risk/reward evaluation, and self-soothing!) Those sound like good, enriching lessons to me, but my ex would have seen little but a boy putting himself at risk, and been sorely tempted to sit down and do a small arts and crafts project with him, instead.

Anyway, I hope you do discuss a lot of this with your IC, think good and hard about it yourself, and then talk it over with your husband. (Personally, I'd recommend leaving Mom out of the loop for a little while.) I'm glad you're here, and hope you want to keep learning - and contributing back, too. Thanks for actually listening.


----------



## Akinaura

OP, I want to say that taking responsibility (if even some of it) is a VERY good step to owning the anxiety, the depression.

I remember quite well being in your shoes. I lived that way for two straight years...worst years I've ever had. Then everyone around me stopped feeding the anxiety and told me to own it. What I saw in my daughter as I took ownership of what I was feeling is something I'll remember for the rest of my life. This cranky, always needing mommy child developed the most wonderful personality. She stopped the waking a during the night, she stopped being so sensitive in sleep...it was like aliens had replaced my daughter and I loved it.

If you want the best for your child (which I think everyone can say you are definitely trying to provide!) then work with your therapist...I know there is a 12 week program that I myself completed that really helped me out, I just wish I could remember the name of it for you to ask about. And I say this as someone diagnosed with GAD w/ Agoraphobia. You can do it, and you will be so proud of yourself once you have everything under control.

Oh, and one last thing: Tell the hubby why you were so adamant against the idea to begin with it. That will help you own the anxiety and also help him to understand you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## thetiredmommy

norajane said:


> The corollary to that is that _you should also be putting his needs before yours. _ That is what a good wife does.
> 
> If you don't, then you are the only one getting your needs fulfilled - overfilled - because your husband is putting your needs first and you are putting your needs first. In this situation, no one is filling his needs at all.


I know that you probably have a point, but whenever I hear something like "a good wife puts her husband's needs first," I think of archaic/sexist propaganda. My mom said that my grandmother would do a lot for my grandfather, but that my mom was more of a feminist during the 60's and 70's era. I grew up in a household where my dad did a lot to help my mom, too. That's why I thought it was normal for moms to take naps often. My husband actually gets frustrated with my mom because he'll mention that things feel unbalanced between the two of us, but she'll overhear something and chime in to assure him that it's ok because that's how my parents did it.


----------



## Nikita2270

Deejo said:


> And my note to anyone that DOES choose to respond to tiredmommy;
> the woman has owned that she struggles with anxiety, depression, and control issues.
> 
> If you can't factor those mitigating circumstances into your feedback, then please recall the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything at all.


I'm actually less concerned about her and more concerned about her poor, tortured husband since she can't be arsed to consider what he might need.

She's got anxiety? She works 16 hours a week. Imagine what anxiety this guy must be under to be working full-time, handling the child for her, and having to deal with a so-called wife who micromanages him.

Frankly, I don't have anything nice to say really. In fact, I would add that her parenting ideas about what constitutes appropriate child stimulus are really odd and sound unhealthy to her child.

I don't respond well to people who tell me what to post and how to post it. This OP is wrong and her anxiety doesn't really alleviate the fact that she's self-centered and neglectful to her husband who sounds like he deserves way better.


----------



## TiggyBlue

thetiredmommy said:


> I know that you probably have a point, but whenever I hear something like "a good wife puts her husband's needs first," I think of archaic/sexist propaganda. My mom said that my grandmother would do a lot for my grandfather, but that my mom was more of a feminist during the 60's and 70's era. I grew up in a household where my dad did a lot to help my mom, too. That's why I thought it was normal for moms to take naps often. *My husband actually gets frustrated with my mom because he'll mention that things feel unbalanced between the two of us, but she'll overhear something and chime in to assure him that it's ok because that's how my parents did it.*


No offense but your mother has way to much of a voice in you and your husband's marriage.


----------



## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> I don't try to do that to him...maybe I need to discuss this more with my psychologist in our next session. We don't usually talk about my relationship, but come to think of it, he does sometimes try to have me consider my husband's position. The last time this came up was when my husband went to happy hour with his co-workers even I told him that I preferred that he didn't. I was mad at him at first and vented to my therapist. My therapist was kinda hinting that I say "no" to often to my spouse, so he probably decided to go no matter what I said.


Wow, I hope I never need a therapists counsel to consider what would be a thoughtful, kind, reasonable thing to do for my partner.

All I know is that because I love my partner and care about his happiness that its pretty simple not to consider my own selfish needs at every moment and consider what might make him feel good.

OP the more you post, the more I feel sorry for your husband....poor, poor guy.


----------



## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> Thank you. But I am concerned, though! *He did go to a happy hour last month and I didn't complain,* even though he was back at 8pm. I don't mind when he watches the ball game every once in a while even though I don't like sports, because he watches some shows with me that I know he doesn't super like.


lol...I just rolled my eyes so far into the back of my head that I fell off my chair.

Good lawd...what a trainwreck.


----------



## thetiredmommy

TiggyBlue said:


> No offense but your mother has way to much of a voice in you and your husband's marriage.


I know. That's what he says, too. I admit that she does that in a lot of relationships...my brother and dad kinda let her that, but my mom and my H get into it sometimes because he politely asks her to back off. Sometimes, I get upset though because I think he gets a little aggressive, though.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Thanks for the education. I didn't realize that's what feminism means.


----------



## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> I know that you probably have a point, but whenever I hear something like "a good wife puts her husband's needs first," I think of archaic/sexist propaganda. My mom said that my grandmother would do a lot for my grandfather, but that my mom was more of a feminist during the 60's and 70's era. I grew up in a household where my dad did a lot to help my mom, too. That's why I thought it was normal for moms to take naps often. My husband actually gets frustrated with my mom because he'll mention that things feel unbalanced between the two of us, but she'll overhear something and chime in to assure him that it's ok because that's how my parents did it.


Why on earth would you allow your mother to interfere in your marriage this way? Its completely inappropriate and not her place and instead of being a wife and supporting your husband, you defer to your mother?

Honestly, this guy is ganged up on at every level. Its no wonder that he's frustrated. His mother in-law is allowed by her daughter who shows zero consideration for him, to interfere in their marriage and their parenting decisions.

OP, I know you don't get this...but you've got some classic warning signs of an impending divorce. No normal man is going to put up with this kind of treatment long term.


----------



## soccermom2three

New rule: How about you just don't talk to your mom about you and your husband's marriage?


----------



## Nikita2270

thetiredmommy said:


> I know. That's what he says, too. I admit that she does that in a lot of relationships...my brother and dad kinda let her that, but my mom and my H get into it sometimes because he politely asks her to back off. Sometimes, I get upset though because I think he gets a little aggressive, though.


Of course he gets aggressive because he's having to do YOUR job with YOUR mother. Instead of you politely telling her to butt out and mind her own business like any decent wife would...you leave him to have to fend for himself and defend himself against her meddling interference in things that are none of her business.

If I were him, your mother wouldn't be permitted in my presence unless she learned her place. And I'd be absolutely furious with you not supporting me.


----------



## Nikita2270

WorkingOnMe said:


> Thanks for the education. I didn't realize that's what feminism means.


She's redefined "egalitarian" and "feminism" to suit her own warped view of reality.


----------



## TiggyBlue

thetiredmommy said:


> I know. That's what he says, too. I admit that she does that in a lot of relationships...my brother and dad kinda let her that, but my mom and my H get into it sometimes because he politely asks her to back off. *Sometimes, I get upset though because I think he gets a little aggressive, though.*


Put yourself in his shoes. If you needed to talk to your husband about something in your marriage, his father overhears and comes in and interferes in the conversation saying it's fine because his marriage is the same,
how would you react?


----------



## EnjoliWoman

OP I'm glad you have been considering the thoughts, suggestions and feedback you have gotten here. You are letting your own demons (and your mother) rule your marriage and your parenting style. I'm glad you are working to address that with professionals.

Was your mother overbearing when you were young? It sounds like it. She should have ZERO - hear me? ZERO input into your relationship. It's great to be close to your mother - I surely am as well. But there are certain things that need to stay OUT of your conversations. No, mothers don't take naps. No, mothers don't rule the roost. No, mothers don't butt into their kids' business unless they are concerned for their SAFETY (as in abusive situations).

You and your husband should be equals. Partners. His say is just as important as yours - and vice versa! His opinion on jog strollers is important but your mother's is equally UNimportant. 

I wonder if she was controlling, obsessive and overly involved and hovered as much as you. I'm beginning to get the impression based on your comments. You learned the fear, anxiety and concern over irrelevant things from your mother. 

I'm glad you have been SO open here to the feedback you've gotten. Very many get defensive from the beginning and I must give you credit that you have not. 

To make a strong, confident daughter, you must demonstrate to her that she is strong and capable. The only way to do that is to let go. Let her fall down. let her explore. Let her dress herself backwards and wear it that way. Let your husband's opinion be equal to yours.

He does not live to serve you - provide for you and pamper you. You are not a demi-God. On the other hand, he should appreciate the contributions you make. But the same goes in reverse. 

I know it's easy for me to say stop playing the victim, stop the wining and the napping and put on your big girl panties and get over it and be half of the solution not have of the problem. I also know it's harder for you to come to terms with all of that.

Kids need unstructured play. They need free down time to imagine, roam, explore, dream... don't try to manage every minute. You'll drive yourself nuts and your child won't blossom. You didn't blossom. You are a tightly wound bud. Open up. Embrace the unkown. Take some chances. None of these chances will have dire consequences. Talk to your therapist/psych advisor. Tell your husband you are struggling but trying very hard to get past feelings that you know on some level aren't healthy but it's all you know.

You'll get there.


----------



## MEM2020

Tired,

Here's what's sad about this.

You and I both agree that the H should put the W first. In fact it's our core definition of a good H.

But you claim it's - sexist - to expect the wife to put the H's needs first. 

This is consistent with your earlier comment about Dom/sub. 

You expect your H to perform because that's the definition of a good H. 

But any burden of performance on you - is an anachronistic type of patriarchy. 

In 14 years your child will be grown. You don't seem to realize how important sex is to a man. So what is it you think will keep your marriage together then? 

Take a deep breath. Because nothing bad is going to happen in the near term. So you have a lot of time to fix this.

But the thing is you have a lot of work to do. You have ruthlessly exploited your gender, and you really don't fight fair. 

If you want your H to be supportive of you when your mother eventually gets sick and dies (normal life stuff - right) you need to stop using her to gang up on your H. 

He hasn't quite figured out the extent to which you are bullying him because your delivery style is fairly soft. 








thetiredmommy said:


> I know that you probably have a point, but whenever I hear something like "a good wife puts her husband's needs first," I think of archaic/sexist propaganda. My mom said that my grandmother would do a lot for my grandfather, but that my mom was more of a feminist during the 60's and 70's era. I grew up in a household where my dad did a lot to help my mom, too. That's why I thought it was normal for moms to take naps often. My husband actually gets frustrated with my mom because he'll mention that things feel unbalanced between the two of us, but she'll overhear something and chime in to assure him that it's ok because that's how my parents did it.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



Nikita2270 said:


> I don't respond well to people who tell me what to post and how to post it. This OP is wrong and her anxiety doesn't really alleviate the fact that she's self-centered and neglectful to her husband who sounds like he deserves way better.


FYI, Deejo is the forum moderator, his job is to ensure that comments stay respectful and constructive as per the forum rules.

And you are encouraged to offer your opinion, but telling someone their spouse deserves better than them is the kind of conduct that will get you banned.


----------



## samyeagar

thetiredmommy said:


> I know that you probably have a point, but whenever I hear something like "a good wife puts her husband's needs first," *I think of archaic/sexist propaganda*. My mom said that my grandmother would do a lot for my grandfather, but that my mom was more of a feminist during the 60's and 70's era. I grew up in a household where my dad did a lot to help my mom, too. That's why I thought it was normal for moms to take naps often. My husband actually gets frustrated with my mom because he'll mention that things feel unbalanced between the two of us, but she'll overhear something and chime in to assure him that it's ok because that's how my parents did it.


Sort of like women are delicate little flowers who need their beauty rest and to be doted on...and as a mother, your way of doing things, your parenting opinions are no better or more valid than his.

When sexist and archaic propaganda and stereotypes fall, it goes both ways...else you are nothing but a cake eater. Your husband deserves just as much consideration as you do. You should be expected to give to him as much as you expect him to give to you. You deserve nothing more than you actually give.


----------



## Abc123wife

I didn't get past the first 5 or so pages of this thread, but I am curious tiredmommy, with such a busy life that your husband can't even get an hour to jog once a week, how do you have the time to start 3 threads in one day and get up to 73 posts already?


----------



## IcePrincess28

Hi Tired Mommy

I started reading your thread around the day you initially posted it. I thought it would be best- to compile all your posts- and highlighted points- into one post- so you could see, in one post- how you come off. 

I feel that your intentions are sincere and whole hearted. You do want to fix the problem. You yourself have admitted to anxiety, depression, and control issues. You also state that you are in an egalitarian relationship. Which- would mean equal roles- but as applicable to you- should mean equal share of duties as well correct?



thetiredmommy said:


> Hi everyone!
> 
> So I'm new to this forum...I have been married for 6 years and I have a *4 year old girl*. Lately my *H and I have been arguing about personal time...... *
> 
> Lately he's been doing exercises at home in the morning or evening when baby and I are asleep. But h*e told me recently that he wants to get back into running*. I thought that *this should be a problem* and he suggested that he run during our girl's nap, which is when I also can take a nap. But the problem is that our girl has outgrown her naps, but *I still need my sleep* because I sometimes have sleep problems, so I told him that he couldn't run during that time so he can watch her while I sleep. Then *he suggested a run in the evening*, but then *that would extend how long my mom babysits (I work PT) and I don't want her to have to stay longer* than she has to. But the *mornings don't work well either* because the door is close to her room and *she usually wakes up when you shut the door, and I don't want her to wake up at 6:00am. *
> 
> So I feel bad, but I don't know* how to communicate to him that starting to jog probably doesn't work right now.* And *he is already starting to get in shape* with his exercises. :scratchhead:





Anonymous07 said:


> Not sure how much your daughter weighs, but can he take her with him jogging in a stroller?





thetiredmommy said:


> *He mentioned getting a baby stroller* when she was younger but *I don't like the idea* of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know?





thetiredmommy said:


> I could try to get her to go back to sleep, but once she is up, she is up, and she wants me to get out of bed. *It's really hard enough as it is when she wants me to get out of bed at 7am when my H is getting ready to go to work.*
> 
> *I don't resent him getting an hour* because he supports me when necessary. *I go to pilates at least once a week in the evenings so he takes care of her, feeds her dinner, and gets her ready for bed when he gets back from work.* It's just that I really do need that sleep. I have anxiety and have a hard time sleeping well sometimes.





thetiredmommy said:


> He is supportive, which I do like. Luckily *he takes care of her in the mornings during the weekends so I can sleep in a couple of hours.* But even then it's hard to get restful sleep because she's crying for me to get up while he's trying to entertain her.





thetiredmommy said:


> Well he was thinking that he could run while we were both napping *so his running wouldn't interfere with the rest of the day as far as possible activities.* But then she recently stopped napping.





thetiredmommy said:


> *He said that I don't prioritize his needs well*, but that's not really true. But yes, it's true that *my daughter's needs should come first.* I really do need to sleep and *I don't feel comfortable giving up my nap so he can run. * I need that rest so I can be the best mom I can be.





thetiredmommy said:


> I'll think about going to bed earlier. *I really do like catching up on my shows after she goes to bed, though. * You know, ANTM, Project Runway, Bachelor, so I can watch grownup shows with my H before going to bed. So *I go to bed around 11:30 and wake up usually around 7:00 *when she wakes up, *sometimes later if H can leave quietly.*
> 
> She does sleep through the night, thank GOD!! *Sometimes she has a nightmare, but H is pretty good about getting her back in bed. *
> 
> *The thing is he already is starting to look good!* He does body weight exercises at home and seeing results, so I'm kinda confused about that too...*why start running now when this is working. *





thetiredmommy said:


> *Half the week? Hmm, we only need to figure out how he can get one run in per week. *
> 
> I like the idea of the *babysitter* but that's *another expense. He makes most of the income and has to supplement his full time job with some extra work. * so I understand we're also *money strapped* too. :-/





thetiredmommy said:


> I will say this, *he does understand how hard it is for me. I've called him a couple times when he was at work to see if he could come home when she was having a bad tantrum day. He takes care of her on the weekends during the mornings so I can sleep in a little longer.* They really do bond during that time even if sometimes she really wants to see me.





thetiredmommy said:


> Maybe it sounds nuts, but it really isn't. It's *hard to balance time when we're so busy.* The other part is that *he works over 40 hours a week*, so it's harder to fit that time in.





thetiredmommy said:


> You sound a lot like my H. He says that it's good for her to come along while we do our grown up things. *I used to ask him to get some grocery shopping done after she went to sleep* so it wouldn't interfere with her day, but I stopped that last year.
> 
> *He also likes for me to have friend time and I've started doing that. *A few nights ago, I went out with a girlfriend for dinner and a movie. It was really fun!
> 
> And yes, I'm also trying to get back in shape. Lately, I've been *going to pilates class once or twice a week.* It does give me some more energy.





thetiredmommy said:


> Yes, *he exercises twice a week for about half an hour,* usually *while I'm at pilates* and *he's watching her.* He said that she copies him exercising or likes to ride on his back while he's doing pushups.
> 
> Hmm, I'm not too sure how he can shave time from his free time activities. *He has time when she goes down for bed but I do worry about him running at night. That could be dangerous..*.





thetiredmommy said:


> But I find "trust in him" off-putting. *We don't do that dom-sub thing* that some households do where the wife listens to the husband. *This is an egalitarian relationship. *





thetiredmommy said:


> No, I know. It's was just *at that time, I was spending all day with my daughter* and the *thought of not having him come home right away* to give me a breather *upset me*. *It seemed really convenient that he could unwind while I had to deal with the baby.*





thetiredmommy said:


> He has about a 45 minute commute. He says that driving is relaxing for him. *I'm at work now so he comes home before I do, so he picks up our girl from my mom's and gets started on dinner.*
> 
> No, *I don't nap during the weekdays. It's only on some afternoons during the weekend.*





thetiredmommy said:


> Thank you. But I am concerned, though! *He did go to a happy hour last month* and I didn't complain, even though he was back at 8pm. I don't mind when he watches the ball game every once in a while even though I don't like sports, because he watches some shows with me that I know he doesn't super like.[/B]





thetiredmommy said:


> *He is happy when I go out.* He even tells me when I haven't gone out in a while. A few days ago, he even called my bestie and suggested that she take me out.


From what I read:

1) You do not want your husband to run at all. And you've decided that its unnecessary anyways because he is starting to get in shape. 

2) You've countered all suggestions mentioned- on how he can fit in the one hour. Mornings - the door can wake up your daughter. Is that the only door in your home? If so, he can exit thru a window, or grease the hinges of the door. Evenings- it goes into your mother's time. Initially, you did not like the idea of the him taking her with him to go jogging- but then said you will consider it. Good. Evenings- after she goes to bed- you said its dangerous for a grown man to be out jogging. 

3) His responsibilities: He makes most of the income. Gets up and gets ready for work around 7 am. Works 40 hours a week, plus extra work. He picks her up from your mother's, and makes her dinner. Bathes her, gets her ready and puts her to bed. You used to ask him to do the grocery shopping as well. That was good that you stopped. He takes care of her in the mornings on the weekends so that you can sleep in. When your daughter has nightmares, he gets up in the middle of the night to tend to it- this would include nights on which he has to work in the mornings, as well as the weekends- in which you sleep in. He also takes care of her during your nap later on in the afternoon, during the weekends. You have also disrupted him at work- several times- to ask him to come home, because your daughter was having a tantrum. 

4) Things he does for you: He provides for you financially- (i'm assuming that? since he makes most of the income. You stated you work 16 hours a week in the evening. How much of your income do you contribute to the "family pot". Perhaps it would make things easier if you worked during the day? Or is your mother not available to help babysit during that time? 

He insists that you get your personal time- out with the girls. Even called your best friend to arrange it. You oblige. He watches your show, every single night. He has to work in the morning- but he is kind and willing to let you keep the tv on until 11:30pm, with your shows. He stays at home to work out- rather than go to the gym- so he can watch/bond with his daughter, while he works out- and while you go to pilates 1-2x a week. He even "pitched" the running idea to you- by stating he would do it around your schedule- so that it would not interfere with your activities for your daughter. 

5) Things he does for himself: He had one happy hour last month- which you did not like. But you did not complain about it. 

6) Things you do for HIM - I'm sure you do plenty of things for him- but you have not mentioned any in the thread. You however, do mention that you will not give up your nap so he can run. You've also mentioned feeling resentment- regarding those times that he did not come home right away- so you could take a breather (understandable). You were not happy about his one happy hour- but sort of "let it slide." 

From what you've told us- I personally- do not see an egalitarian relationship. He is taking on the financial provider, as well as the child care provider when he gets home. His personal time- is also taken over- with his child care responsibilities. And on the weekends- he must take care of the daughter so you can sleep in and nap. Have you considered that he may not be getting enough sleep?

Do you take medication for your depression and anxiety? What kind of sleep problems do you have? Trouble sleeping, trouble waking up, or getting enough REM sleep? 

What was the reason for you getting a job? I am a single mother (with a 4 year old and a 2 year old- and no noise in the world wakes them up- because when they were newborns, I used to put them down for naps, shut their door- then run the vacuum.), and a business woman- I promise I'm not insulting your desire to work! I understand it. Just trying to weigh in on your situation is all. 

Please put all these things into perspective! I know you do not see the error of your ways. He's a good man- and altho you're a woman who is trying to fix things- I see you putting yourself first more than anything. But thats just IMO. Please take the time to read that compilation I made of your threads-


----------



## Cletus

Anon Pink said:


> Do they make these for adults? Only with a reclining seat back....and a raised foot rest...and maybe a butler to run alongside to blot my face when the rain and mud gets splashed onto me?


Yes, they do. I've often caught Mrs. Del Rey drooling in the back seat with her head lolled over. 

As for the human powered version, my son used one of those for a while. He loved it, thinking he was actually helping out on a ride.


----------



## PBear

If your husband ever finds out where you've hidden his testicles, I think you're in for a rude awakening. If he was here now, in fact, he'd be getting all sorts of interesting advice, on all the thread topics you've posted. And I doubt you'd like any of it. 

On the plus side (and this is a big plus), you ARE asking for advice and not running away from it. I'm just not sure you're willing to DO anything with it. My recommendation would be to not get complacent with your husband's seeming acceptance of the situation though. Because most likely, the dam will break at some point in the future. And it will NOT be pretty. It might be a note on your mantel saying "I'm done, and out". It might be an affair. It might just be him putting his foot down and saying things have got to change NOW. In any case, the status quo is likely not sustainable. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cletus

PBear said:


> If your husband ever finds out where you've hidden his testicles, I think you're in for a rude awakening. If he was here now, in fact, he'd be getting all sorts of interesting advice, on all the thread topics you've posted. And I doubt you'd like any of it.
> 
> On the plus side (and this is a big plus), you ARE asking for advice and not running away from it. I'm just not sure you're willing to DO anything with it. My recommendation would be to not get complacent with your husband's seeming acceptance of the situation though. Because most likely, the dam will break at some point in the future. And it will NOT be pretty. It might be a note on your mantel saying "I'm done, and out". It might be an affair. It might just be him putting his foot down and saying things have got to change NOW. In any case, the status quo is likely not sustainable.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Yup. Unless OP is particularly bad at painting a nuanced picture of her relationship in an online forum, every single person reading this and the other threads can see it as plain as the nose on their face. 

This is a relationship heading straight for the rocks with a prevailing tailwind and no one at the rudder. But admitting you have a problem is the first step.


----------



## EleGirl

IcePrincess28 said:


> Hi Tired Mommy
> 
> I started reading your thread around the day you initially posted it. I thought it would be best- to compile all your posts- and highlighted points- into one post- so you could see, in one post- how you come off.
> 
> I feel that your intentions are sincere and whole hearted. You do want to fix the problem. You yourself have admitted to anxiety, depression, and control issues. You also state that you are in an egalitarian relationship. Which- would mean equal roles- but as applicable to you- should mean equal share of duties as well correct?
> ......
> 
> From what I read:
> 
> 1) You do not want your husband to run at all. And you've decided that its unnecessary anyways because he is starting to get in shape.
> 
> 2) You've countered all suggestions mentioned- on how he can fit in the one hour. Mornings - the door can wake up your daughter. Is that the only door in your home? If so, he can exit thru a window, or grease the hinges of the door. Evenings- it goes into your mother's time. Initially, you did not like the idea of the him taking her with him to go jogging- but then said you will consider it. Good. Evenings- after she goes to bed- you said its dangerous for a grown man to be out jogging.
> 
> 3) His responsibilities: He makes most of the income. Gets up and gets ready for work around 7 am. Works 40 hours a week, plus extra work. He picks her up from your mother's, and makes her dinner. Bathes her, gets her ready and puts her to bed. You used to ask him to do the grocery shopping as well. That was good that you stopped. He takes care of her in the mornings on the weekends so that you can sleep in. When your daughter has nightmares, he gets up in the middle of the night to tend to it- this would include nights on which he has to work in the mornings, as well as the weekends- in which you sleep in. He also takes care of her during your nap later on in the afternoon, during the weekends. You have also disrupted him at work- several times- to ask him to come home, because your daughter was having a tantrum.
> 
> 4) Things he does for you: He provides for you financially- (i'm assuming that? since he makes most of the income. You stated you work 16 hours a week in the evening. How much of your income do you contribute to the "family pot". Perhaps it would make things easier if you worked during the day? Or is your mother not available to help babysit during that time?
> 
> He insists that you get your personal time- out with the girls. Even called your best friend to arrange it. You oblige. He watches your show, every single night. He has to work in the morning- but he is kind and willing to let you keep the tv on until 11:30pm, with your shows. He stays at home to work out- rather than go to the gym- so he can watch/bond with his daughter, while he works out- and while you go to pilates 1-2x a week. He even "pitched" the running idea to you- by stating he would do it around your schedule- so that it would not interfere with your activities for your daughter.
> 
> 5) Things he does for himself: He had one happy hour last month- which you did not like. But you did not complain about it.
> 
> 6) Things you do for HIM - I'm sure you do plenty of things for him- but you have not mentioned any in the thread. You however, do mention that you will not give up your nap so he can run. You've also mentioned feeling resentment- regarding those times that he did not come home right away- so you could take a breather (understandable). You were not happy about his one happy hour- but sort of "let it slide."
> 
> From what you've told us- I personally- do not see an egalitarian relationship. He is taking on the financial provider, as well as the child care provider when he gets home. His personal time- is also taken over- with his child care responsibilities. And on the weekends- he must take care of the daughter so you can sleep in and nap. Have you considered that he may not be getting enough sleep?
> 
> Do you take medication for your depression and anxiety? What kind of sleep problems do you have? Trouble sleeping, trouble waking up, or getting enough REM sleep?
> 
> What was the reason for you getting a job? I am a single mother (with a 4 year old and a 2 year old- and no noise in the world wakes them up- because when they were newborns, I used to put them down for naps, shut their door- then run the vacuum.), and a business woman- I promise I'm not insulting your desire to work! I understand it. Just trying to weigh in on your situation is all.
> 
> Please put all these things into perspective! I know you do not see the error of your ways. He's a good man- and altho you're a woman who is trying to fix things- I see you putting yourself first more than anything. But thats just IMO. Please take the time to read that compilation I made of your threads-


You for got to add that the OP controls their sex life.. for more than a year after the daughter was born there was no sex. Now it's up to a whopping 1-2 times a month if she is up to it. And when she is up to sex, she wants him to hurry up.. no foreplay.


----------



## Cletus

Lon said:


> FYI, Deejo is the forum moderator, his job is to ensure that comments stay respectful and constructive as per the forum rules.
> 
> And you are encouraged to offer your opinion, but telling someone their spouse deserves better than them is the kind of conduct that will get you banned.


It might be behavior that gets you banned, but it might also be the kind of tough love some need.

Perhaps her husband doesn't deserve better than her, but it certainly seems from 30,000 feet that he deserves better than he's getting.


----------



## thefam

Nikita2270 said:


> I don't respond well to people who tell me what to post and how to post it. This OP is wrong and her anxiety doesn't really alleviate the fact that she's self-centered and neglectful to her husband who sounds like he deserves way better.


How is it that this poster can respond to a moderator this way and not be banned? Just curious.


----------



## Cletus

thefam said:


> How is it that this poster can respond to a moderator this way and not be banned? Just curious.


Moderate moderators. Thank god for 'em. Nothing is more off-putting than having the SS show up in a forum and ban you for not polishing their halos. 

(Not that moderators don't serve a very useful purpose, but I've seen the job abused plenty too)


----------



## samyeagar

thefam said:


> How is it that this poster can respond to a moderator this way and not be banned? Just curious.


Because Deejo is a pretty level headed guy and a good moderator, and probably didn't take it personally. There was nothing out of line in Nikita's post...yes it was blunt and to the point, but not a personal attack.

I think some mods here may tend to powertrip, but Deejo isn't one of them...in his own mind, he's the dominant overlord of the universe, he just hides it well on the outside


----------



## thefam

samyeagar said:


> Because Deejo is a pretty level headed guy and a good moderator, and probably didn't take it personally. There was nothing out of line in Nikita's post...yes it was blunt and to the point, but not a personal attack.
> 
> I think some mods here may tend to powertrip, but Deejo isn't one of them...in his own mind, he's the dominant overlord of the universe, he just hides it well on the outside


IDK - I have seen bannings for far less. But anyway, not trying to hijack the thread so let me get to what I really have been wanting to post. 

We see so many posts from men on TAM who are her husband. I kind of like it that we get to see the other side of it and the thinking behind how/why a wife functions like this in a marriage. And OP, I dont mean to talk as if you are not in the room but I personally have often wondered what experiences in a womans life leads to this attitude toward marriage. 

I am kind of glad you are here really because TAM so often gets the view of this kind of marriage from the husband's perspective only. Although it seems like your softness is just a tad bit passive aggressive, if this is really who you are then I think its quite insightful.


----------



## Almostrecovered

samyeagar said:


> I think some mods here may tend to powertrip


which ones?


(I dare ya to name them)


----------



## samyeagar

Almostrecovered said:


> which ones?
> 
> 
> (I dare ya to name them)


Triple dog dare me, and I might actually chuckle as I tell you "Nah"


----------



## Almostrecovered

how about a clue then? something like "starts with an A and rhymes with Hamplexor"


----------



## samyeagar

thefam said:


> IDK - I* have seen bannings for far less.* But anyway, not trying to hijack the thread so let me get to what I really have been wanting to post.
> 
> We see so many posts from men on TAM who are her husband. I kind of like it that we get to see the other side of it and the thinking behind how/why a wife functions like this in a marriage. And OP, I dont mean to talk as if you are not in the room but I personally have often wondered what experiences in a womans life leads to this attitude toward marriage.
> 
> I am kind of glad you are here really because TAM so often gets the view of this kind of marriage from the husband's perspective only. Although it seems like your softness is just a tad bit passive aggressive, if this is really who you are then I think its quite insightful.


Maybe...but again, it's a mod by mod decision...they usually don't cadre to discuss and vote on bans...as I understand it, it's pretty much on a mod by mod basis.

About what you said to the OP...nice understatement calling it "a tad bit" passive aggressive  There was another poster here not too long ago who had the same sickly innocent and naive perspective on things, shrouded in passive aggressiveness...


----------



## happy as a clam

OMG... tiredmommy.... Having read this thread, PLUS your other thread here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/219890-does-seem-rigid.html

can you say *SELFISH?!?!*

Just repeat after me... "selfish, selfish, selfish"... and "I WILL go to counseling, I WILL go to counseling, I WILL go to counseling"...

"Pardon me while I nap on my throne... while husband returns from a FULL day of work and then entertains the little hellion while I REST..."

*You're lucky this man hasn't left you already...*

Wow... and I thought I had seen it all on TAM.


----------



## Anonymous07

Cletus said:


> It might be behavior that gets you banned, but it might also be the kind of tough love some need.
> 
> Perhaps her husband doesn't deserve better than her, but it certainly seems from 30,000 feet that he deserves better than he's getting.


There are better ways to 'show' tough love in a more respectful manner than what was done. 

Anyways, back to the topic. 
I originally felt like defending thetiredmommy because I am a very tired mom myself. I completely understand the need for sleep, as being exhausted drains almost every aspect of life. Although the more she posted, the more controlling she seemed(stonewalling every suggestions and fighting over only one run a week). Ugh. I hope she learns to let go more because she can't control everything. Kids need free, unstructured time for their imaginations to grow. It's so very important for every child. I'm learning this myself with my son, as I have to let him fall, to let him learn on his own at times.


----------



## happy as a clam

thetiredmommy said:


> He mentioned getting a baby stroller when she was younger but *I don't like the idea of her having to sit through his activity when she could be doing something more productive and enriching, you know?* I do care about him getting to do what he needs, but I'm also know that we have to think about the family's needs, too. :scratchhead:


You don't think whizzing around the neighborhood, being stimulated by the scenery, other joggers, dogs, cars, etc. isn't as exciting as being PLOPPED in a crib while you REST?!

Grrrrrrr......  This thread is really triggering me. I was a SAHM for 20 years, and a D*MN good one I might add. Your husband deserves FAR better than what you are doling out. Crumbs.... mere crumbs. And your kid is being done a HUGE disservice by your selfish desires.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

happy as a clam said:


> You don't think whizzing around the neighborhood, being stimulated by the scenery, other joggers, dogs, cars, etc. isn't as exciting as being PLOPPED in a crib while you REST?!
> 
> Grrrrrrr......  This thread is really triggering me. I was a SAHM for 20 years, and a D*MN good one I might add. Your husband deserves FAR better than what you are doling out. Crumbs.... mere crumbs. And your kid is being done a HUGE disservice by your selfish desires.



But if she doles anything out that would make her subservient! The only one pleasing anyone should be him pleasing her, like all good egalitarian marriages!


----------



## AliceA

I doubt the OP is anywhere to be seen anymore, but just in case, have you looked into your diet? There's been strong links made between diet and people suffering anxiety and depression. Just saw another report on it the other day. Crap in, crap out. That's pretty much the basic principle.


----------



## IcePrincess28

OP is either 1) crazy for being so honest with her shortcomings- which to most- she does not see it as- but still- is genuinely asking for help. Or 2) toying with everyone 

I highly doubt she is #2. But I also doubt she was coming here for help- openly listing her flaws -even tho it's apparent that- she did not mean to in many of them- as they were revealed in anecdotes that complimented her husband's attributes). Either way she did not come to make herself a laugh stock. 

Perhaps this is why she left. Gentler words might persuade her to come back?


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



IcePrincess28 said:


> OP is either 1) crazy for being so honest with her shortcomings- which to most- she does not see it as- but still- is genuinely asking for help. Or 2) toying with everyone
> 
> I highly doubt she is #2. But I also doubt she was coming here for help- openly listing her flaws -even tho it's apparent that- she did not mean to in many of them- as they were revealed in anecdotes that complimented her husband's attributes). Either way she did not come to make herself a laugh stock.
> 
> Perhaps this is why she left. Gentler words might persuade her to come back?


Maybe she's not here cuz she's taking care of her daughter or spending time with her H.

The cult of TAM


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



thefam said:


> How is it that this poster can respond to a moderator this way and not be banned? Just curious.


The moderators tolerance for intolerance is much stronger. I let the post stand, it didn't bother me a whit.


----------



## Deejo

*Re: Re: Question about personal rec time*



samyeagar said:


> Because Deejo is a pretty level headed guy and a good moderator, and probably didn't take it personally. There was nothing out of line in Nikita's post...yes it was blunt and to the point, but not a personal attack.
> 
> I think some mods here may tend to powertrip, but Deejo isn't one of them...in his own mind, he's the dominant overlord of the universe, he just hides it well on the outside


----------



## happy as a clam

Deejo said:


> The moderators tolerance for intolerance is much stronger. I let the post stand, it didn't bother me a whit.


I send Deejo nasty PMs all the time and he never does anything about it...

:rofl:


----------



## Nikita2270

Lon said:


> FYI, Deejo is the forum moderator, his job is to ensure that comments stay respectful and constructive as per the forum rules.
> 
> And you are encouraged to offer your opinion, but telling someone their spouse deserves better than them is the kind of conduct that will get you banned.


I said he deserves better treatment...which he does.

I completely stand by what I said. 

A guy that works a full-time job and helps with the household and the children has every right to take a jog once a week and to not have to be ganged up on by his mother-in-law.

I consider people who control others to this extent abusive.

And by the way: If the genders were reversed here and this female OP was complaining about a male spouse controlling her to this level...responding posters would be warning her about the beginning stages of spousal abuse. We wouldn't be excusing his behavior because of so-called "anxiety."


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## Nikita2270

samyeagar said:


> Because Deejo is a pretty level headed guy and a good moderator, and probably didn't take it personally. There was nothing out of line in Nikita's post...yes it was blunt and to the point, but not a personal attack.
> 
> I think some mods here may tend to powertrip, but Deejo isn't one of them...in his own mind, he's the dominant overlord of the universe, he just hides it well on the outside


I'm always blunt and to the point. And I say what I think. And I will continue to say what I think.

Just like I stated, I think this OP's husband deserves to be treated better than he's being treated.

Frankly, I see soooo many women complaining about all the bad men out there. So here's a guy who's working his butt off to earn a living, take care of his baby, try to make his wife happy...and he's dealing with controlling abuse from not only his spouse but also her mother. I feel extremely sorry for this guy and its impossible for me to coddle someone treating another human being in this manner.


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## Nikita2270

Anonymous07 said:


> There are better ways to 'show' tough love in a more respectful manner than what was done.
> 
> Anyways, back to the topic.
> I originally felt like defending thetiredmommy because I am a very tired mom myself. I completely understand the need for sleep, as being exhausted drains almost every aspect of life. Although the more she posted, the more controlling she seemed(stonewalling every suggestions and fighting over only one run a week). Ugh. I hope she learns to let go more because she can't control everything. Kids need free, unstructured time for their imaginations to grow. It's so very important for every child. I'm learning this myself with my son, as I have to let him fall, to let him learn on his own at times.


This guy is working a full-time job and helping at home too when he gets there including calling her friends to ensure she gets a night out.

Then he gets ganged up on by the mother-in-law.

Do you not think he gets tired too?

And let me remind you....he never even asked her to watch the baby while he jogged. He wanted to take the child WITH HIM in a stroller and she and her mom said no.

He's not even asking to inconvenience her in any way.

But she decided...with zero basis...to say that the child sitting in a jogging stroller owned by thousands of parents isn't stimulating enough.


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## Vivid

So the OP is familiar with the idea of Dom/sub relationships but didn't realise having sex in one position with no foreplay and insisting on teeth brushing beforehand isn't normal?

Hmmmmm. Maybe hold your fire on this one folks.


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## Deejo

We're going to narrow the cross posting scope to the thread that the OP started that is actually framed at herself rather than her husband.

We'll see how that one fares.


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