# sexless marriage



## Klaus (Jan 6, 2012)

My wife and I are in our late twenties and have been married for five years - no kids. On average, we have sex once a month. It has been this way since day one. We have discussed this in depth more times then I can remember, all conversations are started by me and are usually a one sided conversation because she goes quiet and says absolutely nothing. I am always very relaxed, never placing blame. I am really just trying to get her to open up but I get nothing. She acknowledges everything and says she wants to work on it, but never does.

She never initiates sex. When we do have sex it is consistently the weekend before her period starts, in the bedroom, same positions same everything. It feels like she does it just to satisfy me and shut me up for another month. I have tried introducing her to toys, different positions, porn, sex-ed videos, sex/relationship books, lingerie, etc. but nothing further ever comes of it. I've tried talking about fantasies and such with her, but she says she has none. I try being romantic but that always ends in snuggling. She say's I am to abrupt and obvious when I want sex, but when I go for a more subtle and seductive approach she is completely oblivious. I have suggested that perhaps the pill inhibiting her sex drive, but she refuses to even consider the posibility and ask her doctor. It is like sex is never, ever on her mind.

She goes through every excuse in the book to avoid sex. When she wants to do something, she MAKES the time to do it - friends/church/events/activities etc. but when I bring up sex, there is no time for that. I try to get involved in some of her interests which she welcomes, but that makes no difference. I am under way more stress then her. Aside from the lack of sex, our relationship is fine as far as I can tell.

I am at the end of my rope, I don't know what to do.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

She doesn't like it. She is not going to change. You can:
- be miserable and stay married
- have an open marriage
- divorce




Klaus said:


> My wife and I are in our late twenties and have been married for five years - no kids. On average, we have sex once a month. It has been this way since day one. We have discussed this in depth more times then I can remember, all conversations are started by me and are usually a one sided conversation because she goes quiet and says absolutely nothing. I am always very relaxed, never placing blame. I am really just trying to get her to open up but I get nothing. She acknowledges everything and says she wants to work on it, but never does.
> 
> She never initiates sex. When we do have sex it is consistently the weekend before her period starts, in the bedroom, same positions same everything. It feels like she does it just to satisfy me and shut me up for another month. I have tried introducing her to toys, different positions, porn, sex-ed videos, sex/relationship books, lingerie, etc. but nothing further ever comes of it. I've tried talking about fantasies and such with her, but she says she has none. I try being romantic but that always ends in snuggling. She say's I am to abrupt and obvious when I want sex, but when I go for a more subtle and seductive approach she is completely oblivious. I have suggested that perhaps the pill inhibiting her sex drive, but she refuses to even consider the posibility and ask her doctor. It is like sex is never, ever on her mind.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Did you have sex while dating? Was it like this then if you did?


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## Klaus (Jan 6, 2012)

She wanted to wait until marriage for sex, that being she was fine with oral and mutual masturbation 2 - 3 times a week pre-marriage.

When I ask her if she even likes sex, she says she really does enjoy it, but just doesn't need it as much as I do.


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## Nicbrownn80 (Mar 20, 2011)

Klaus said:


> She wanted to wait until marriage for sex, that being she was fine with oral and mutual masturbation 2 - 3 times a week pre-marriage.
> 
> When I ask her if she even likes sex, she says she really does enjoy it, but just doesn't need it as much as I do.


that sounds like a good number now try to get oral, masturbation and sex 2-3 times a week. In fact ask her just to do oral or masturbation 2-3 times a week and find out why she does not like sex.

Women like sex if they cum, make sure she is cumming (she needs to be honest) because my wife was not. When she started sex increased exponentially.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Klaus said:


> It is like sex is never, ever on her mind.


I understand this. I am much the same way and always have been. BUT, it has not prevented my H and I from having a good sexual relationship during our marriage because of two things: 1) I am willing to be accommodating, and 2) He is willing to try and get my engine going in the way that I need.

You say that she enjoys sex once you get going. Would she be willing to try it at a bit higher frequency for awhile and see how that goes? Often, the more you have sex, the easier and easier it becomes to continue to have it - especially if you are a woman. Once women get out of the 'habit' and it slides, it can be harder to get back in to it.

What is her reason for staying on the pill? Hormonal BC is pretty notorious for affecting some women's libidoes negatively. Anytime a woman's hormones get messed with, it can affect the natural drive that she has.

Also, for me and my H there is this little 'dance' that gets done throughout the day. He can be a right little flirt about things and that helps keep us connected during the day. Tor some women, like me, the whole 'ramp up' in to sex - not just foreplay - but how you are relating to each other during the day contributes greatly to her desire to have sex and the overall experience. How is your relationship in general, outside the bedroom, with your wife?

Best wishes.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> She doesn't like it. She is not going to change. You can:
> - be miserable and stay married
> - have an open marriage
> - divorce
> ...


The more stories I read here and the more I analyze my own situation, the more I come to see that it really is as simple as you've stated.

Status quo
Divorce
Cheat

No other way. Sexless people NEVER change.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Klaus,
Enchantment is a woman just like my wife. If you read her posts - enchantment is a delightful partner for many reasons. 

But it is ALL predicated on the fact that she has a sincere desire to please her H. And from what she posts - he also has a sincere desire to please her in their marriage.


OTE=Enchantment;541557]I understand this. I am much the same way and always have been. BUT, it has not prevented my H and I from having a good sexual relationship during our marriage because of two things: 1) I am willing to be accommodating, and 2) He is willing to try and get my engine going in the way that I need.

You say that she enjoys sex once you get going. Would she be willing to try it at a bit higher frequency for awhile and see how that goes? Often, the more you have sex, the easier and easier it becomes to continue to have it - especially if you are a woman. Once women get out of the 'habit' and it slides, it can be harder to get back in to it.

What is her reason for staying on the pill? Hormonal BC is pretty notorious for affecting some women's libidoes negatively. Anytime a woman's hormones get messed with, it can affect the natural drive that she has.

Also, for me and my H there is this little 'dance' that gets done throughout the day. He can be a right little flirt about things and that helps keep us connected during the day. Tor some women, like me, the whole 'ramp up' in to sex - not just foreplay - but how you are relating to each other during the day contributes greatly to her desire to have sex and the overall experience. How is your relationship in general, outside the bedroom, with your wife?

Best wishes.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Klaus,
> Enchantment is a woman just like my wife. If you read her posts - enchantment is a delightful partner for many reasons.


Again, the take home message is that it can be made to work if BOTH partners are fully willing to work. If it's only one of you...


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Sawney Beane said:


> Again, the take home message is that it can be made to work if BOTH partners are fully willing to work. If it's only one of you...


True, Sawney. But sometimes it only takes one person to get the 'ball rolling' and see if the other person is up to join you. No harm nor foul in being the one who is willing to give first. 

I was not always a very 'giving' person (and am assuredly not a saint by any means - we still have our disagreements and things that we work through at times).

I have learned to be more giving and more accommodating though - it is how I believe marriage is meant to be.

And it was I who told my H I was going to move out in the early years of our marriage, and he who took the counter-move and started giving more in a way that I needed to show that he wanted the marriage to work, and I who in turn started to give more back, and so on and so forth.

And per Sinnister's comment above, it is even simpler:

"The first step towards getting somewhere is to *decide* that you are not going to stay where you are." ~ anon.

Hope the OP decides to be the one to get the ball rolling.

Best wishes.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> True, Sawney. But sometimes it only takes one person to get the 'ball rolling' and see if the other person is up to join you. No harm nor foul in being the one who is willing to give first.


Absolutely! Someone has to be prepared to make the first move.

But there are many, many examples on this site of people who have achieved a good sex life through a willingness on the part of _both_ partners to compromise, put in some effort, be accommodating and to want to achieve it.

The list of people who have managed a have good sex life in the face of an unwillingness on the part of one partner to lift a finger is very short indeed...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have to agree with all of the wisdom of the other posters. 

I'll use my experience to support what they have said. I am LD my husband is very HD. I really don't think of sex that much maybe once a week many times less. If it were left to my spontaneous desires for sex, we would have sex 1-2 X in a two week period. 

My husband thinks of sex everyday. We worked out what it takes for me to feel desire and get arroused even though it does not happen spontaneously. 

I think that the problem that many LD spouses don't understand is that a lack of spontaneous desire is not an impediment to having frequent sex. I dont think of sex but, given time and the right approach I get in the mood. The disconnect comes when the LD spouse thinks that they should only have sex when they have spontaneous desire. 

Instead a more adaptive, loving way to approach this is to have the desire to be arroused. Most LD spouses report that once they start, sex is good. The rate limiting step is getting started. So why not let HD partner help get things going since they have more energy to put into getting things going. 

All that is needed is an understanding and acceptance of the differences in desire and arrousal between LD and HD people. They need to understand that they are both normal and can arrive at the same place by different routes. 

It is something all people should talk about and accept before deciding to committ to a LTR.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

sinnister said:


> The more stories I read here and the more I analyze my own situation, the more I come to see that it really is as simple as you've stated.
> 
> Status quo
> Divorce
> ...


I will respectfully disagree about sexless people never changing. 

First, realize that the stories on TAM are not necessarily indicative of what goes on in the same proportions as out in the greater world. It is a special interest group site, so I try and constantly warn myself to keep that in perspective. Otherwise, it would appear that every women is of extremely high drive, because those seem to be the kind that are more prolific on the boards. But, I know that in real life many women are like me, and they, like me, have a lot of fluctuations in their drive and their wants and desires. 

And, people can and do change. They have to want to change, though. Sometimes changing circumstances can be enough of a motivational factor to wake them up.

I've seen a number of stories from both men and women on TAM who proclaim that they have lost desire for their spouses for one reason or another. They would be those 'sexless people'. But, when situations change they often find themselves not so sexless anymore. That's because I think that a lot of the sexlessness may be attributable to ongoing issues in a relationship. You can be a person like me who's mind is not necessarily on sex a lot of the time (and I think that I begin to cherish that a bit now as it allows me to have more focus in many different areas), but who can still enjoy sex and intimacy because my focus is on my partner. I care about HIM and what HE cares about.

Hope you can get some kind of resolution in your marriage, Sinnister. May your 2012 be happy and blessed.

Best wishes.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Inthink the problem that many LD spouses don't understand is that a lack of spontaneous desire is not an impediment to having frequent sex. I dont think of sex but, given time, I can get in the mood. The _*disconnect comes when the LD spouse thinks that they should only have sex when they have spontaneous desire. *_Instead a more adaptive, loving way to approach this is to be open to being getting the desire. Most LD spouses report that once they start, sex is good. The rate limiting step is getting started. So why not let HD partner help get things going since they have more energy to put into getting things going.



Emphasis mine. Absolute pure gold, this.

This seems to be the nub of the problem. The question is _*WHY*_? Fear of loss of power? Loss of face by being "manipulated" by the HD partner? Loss of autonomy? Fear of being proved wrong?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I love many things about my W. But the thing that makes her the ultimate standout as a W is her willingness to give herself to me when she doesn't start out feeling desire. 

That is a big thing. A BIG thing. The ultimate demonstration of love.






Catherine602 said:


> I have to agree with all of the wisdom of the other posters.
> 
> I'll use my experience to support what they have said. I am LD my husband is very HD. I really don't think of sex that much maybe once a week many times less. If it were left to my spontaneous desires for sex, we would have sex 1-2 X in a two week period.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sawney, it is ignorance. We assume that spontaneous desire is the norm and neccessary to have good sex. Obviously, that is not true because many couples have sex when one person has desire and the other has been seduced willingly to get in the mood. It works, so why is it not encouraged. the ignorance of people in the MC community is the most disturbing. 

I am not talking about just do it. That is a recipe for desater i think. The possibility for resentment and dead sex is high. I mean figure out what will get the LD spouse in the mood then do it. The just do it part comes in the form of a commitment by the LD spouse to do what it takes not just to have dead pity [email protected]@ks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Sawney, it is ignorance. We assume that spontaneous desire is the norm and neccessary to have good sex. Obviously, that is not true because many couples have sex when one person has desire and the other has been seduced willingly to get in the mood. It works, so why is it not encouraged. the ignorance of people in the MC community is the most disturbing.
> 
> I am not talking about just do it. That is a recipe for desater i think. The possibility for resentment and dead sex is high. *I mean figure out what will get the LD spouse in the mood then do it. *The just do it part comes in the form of a commitment by the LD spouse to do what it takes not just to have dead pity [email protected]@ks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Brilliant post. I was not aware that the MC community stands against t he idea. Why?

RE the emphasis above - it still needs the LD spouse to be willing to engage, to learn and teach. If they resolutely stick to "when I feel it already, and no other time", it's still going to be "dead pity [email protected]@ks."


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> Brilliant post. I was not aware that the MC community stands against t he idea. Why?
> 
> RE the emphasis above - it still needs the LD spouse to be willing to engage, to learn and teach. If they resolutely stick to "when I feel it already, and no other time", it's still going to be "dead pity [email protected]@ks."


No not against it, they don't seem to present this as an option. I only know this second hand. Although we have had MC, sex and my LD was not the problem. 

We have good sex but we worked at it early on but we came upon a good solution on our own. I didn't realize that some couples expect both to have desire at the same frequency. 

I thought it was normal for that not be the case. 

You are right about the refusal of the LD spouse to allow themselves to be aroused when they know that sex is good once they get started. But you seem to assign evil intent to the LD spouse. Why? I think that happens in rare cases but not always. 

The HD partner has to accept that they may be part in the problem. Blaming the partner is just as lazy and dysfunctional the LD spouses refusal. 

That makes it easy ignore problems like the refusal of the HD spouse to communicate with their spouse or to provide the romance that the spouse needs or to the affectionate or companionship. 

If they are resentful meeting those needs then why do they expect their spouse to give more then they give? Because their needs are more important? 

I've read the comment many times that the HD partner feels that they have to jump through hoops or that their partner's trying to control them. 

To me that amounts to a refusal to understand and meet the LD partners needs. and expecting that they cannot give. Why?

That does not make sense. If it works why not just do it. If they cannot gladly meet their partners needs then they get what they give.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> You are right about the refusal of the LD spouse to allow themselves to be aroused when they know that sex is good once they get started. But you seem to assign evil intent to the LD spouse. Why? I think that happens in rare cases but not always.


I seldom ascribe "evil intent" to anyone, but I have a limited tolerance for people who are not prepared to make an effort: high drive, low drive, no drive, whatever. If you are not prepared to WORK at *all *aspects of your marriage, you have no right to expect it to work in spite of you, because some other ****** is doing all the graft.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> I seldom ascribe "evil intent" to anyone, but I have a limited tolerance for people who are not prepared to make an effort: high drive, low drive, no drive, whatever. If you are not prepared to WORK at *all *aspects of your marriage, you have no right to expect it to work in spite of you, because some other ****** is doing all the graft.


Sawney 

My sense that your lack of tolerance is reserved for women only. I get that from the vehemence of your many posts on the subject. Of course I may be wrong. 

There are hundreds of post each month about sex starved husbands but few from emotionally staved women. 

These women are usually chastised and sometimes drummed off the forum by hostile post from men. Some men post wonderful advice to them but, very few. 

I think the dichotomy identifies why the angry men have problems. They place a greater importance on sex and meeting their needs than any other aspect of an intimate mutually satisfying relationship with their spouse. 

Some are equally resistant to accepting a workable solution as some LD women. But they are rarely challenged for this attitude. 

In fact, they often respond with anger if women post viable solutions that don't involve instant gratification of their desire for sex. 

- "it is always the mans fault" or "I'm not jumping through hoops to get sex", or "why should I have to spend all day attending her needs when she can't give me 20 mins" or "being married is an agreement to have sex". 

The best thing to do is to stop blaming LD spouses because it does not work. If it does not work why encourage it? 

The latter sentence I highlighted is true for men who are angry about their wives refusals but feel that romance, communication and spending quality time outside of sex is jumping through hoops or an attempt to control them. 

I'd like to see you ask of men who have problems yet refuse to accept good suggestions, why they refuse to be lead. You have asked this several times of women.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Sawney
> 
> My sense that your lack of tolerance is reserved for women only. I get that from the vehemence of your many posts on the subject. Of course I may be wrong.


Respectfully, you are wrong. I have a lack of tolerance of ignorant men, but there's a limit to have often you can post "...don't be a f*ckwit..." before it gets you into trouble. And that is the basic advice to most of the men. Don't be a f*ckwit.



> There are hundreds of post each month about sex starved husbands but few from emotionally staved women.


By this measure, are the sex starved men are a bigger problem?

No, I'm joking. But the sheer number of those threads does suggest that is is a big issue. If the volume of threads from emotionally starved women was as great, we'd be just as hot on that. Seriously, we would be.



> These women are usually chastised and sometimes drummed off the forum by hostile post from men. Some men post wonderful advice to them but, very few.


Not by me. I have great sympathy for anyone of EITHER sex who is starved of what they need by a supposedly loving partner. No one goes into marriage expecting that, and they shouldn't have to put up with it. But it amounts to the same thing, doesn't it? Can't be bothered syndrome. Whether it's sex or emotional attachment, it's because one partner decides they can't be bothered to invest the energy and effort. They don't need it and can't see why the other should, so won't do what it was that provided the environment that brought them together in the first place.



> I think the dichotomy identifies why the angry men have problems. They place a greater importance on sex and meeting their needs than any other aspect of an intimate mutually satisfying relationshipwith their spouse.


Angry PEOPLE have problems. ANYONE, of either sex, who places one thing, be it sex, children, financial stability or whatever as a higher priority than the whole will not have a intimate mutually satisfying relationship. The relationship is the sum of the parts. Neither sex has a monopoly on ignoring this, if what gets posted here is to be believed.



> Some are equally resistant to accepting a workable solution as some LD women. But they are rarely challenged for this attitude.


Neither sex has a monopoly on stubbornness or stupidity. And they are challenged. The challenge is usually simple - be a better man. 



> In fact, they often respond with anger if women post viable solutions that don't involve instant gratification of their desire for sex.
> 
> - "it is always the mans fault" or "I'm not jumping through hoops to get sex", or "why should I have to spend all day attending her needs when she can't give me 20 mins" or "being married is an agreement to have sex".


Because it usually gets portrayed as a method that works on the principle that if you follow the plan, then eventually, if you're lucky, it might turn out that it might work, but you have to put the effort in with no guarantee of success at any point.

If someone suggests to a woman, "Do x,y,z, and after a few weeks, or months, or years, your partner _might_ get the idea he might want to _think_ about toying with the idea of _considering_ going _some_ way to meeting your emotional needs", would you blame the woman for being equally cynical or sceptical? I wouldn't.



> The best thing to do is to stop blaming LD spouses because it does not work. If it does not work why encourage it?
> 
> The latter sentence I highlighted is true for men who are angry about their wives refusals but feel that romance, communication and spending quality time outside of sex is jumping through hoops or an attempt to control them.


You feel that realising and pointing out that a successful marriage takes effort and work by both partners on all things is an expression of anger? You've lost me. 



> I'd like to see you ask of men who have problems yet refuse to accept good suggestions, why they refuse to be lead. You have asked this several times of women.


No, I have asked how someone of either sex gets anyone, of either sex, to be led if they don't want to be led. 

There are a number of ways you can get someone to follow your lead. Mostly, it's by being what they respect, but at the end of the day, you can only lead someone to do something they want to do themself. You can't lead the unwilling. You can drag or drive them, but that isn't the same.

When I was a soldier, you saw people arrive for training. A lot were sent home and never passed out. A fair number were sh*tcanned because they were not willing to be led. They were not capable of placing their trust and faith in someone else and following their lead. The Army could select those who could be led. In marriages, the choice of washing out those that can't isn't as simple.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sawney 

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I appreciate that you took the time and I understand better. 

I am hypersensitive to the plight of unhappily married men and women. 

It disturbs me that it seems women get little understanding when their unhappiness is expressed as an inability to have sex. 

I am not referring to you Sawney but, the general tenor of the forum. 

Men express their unhappiness by not communicating or getting angry but are still able to have sex. 

These gender-based differences are normal. Women are not broken for being women and men are not jerks for being men.


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## janemilda (Dec 21, 2011)

Speaking as a woman, my unhappiness is not expressed as a desire not to have sex. On the other hand, Hubby does not want to get horizontal if we've been fighting because he's more of an emotional person than I. So... it doesn't always work that way.

That said, while I do believe a HD person should do what they can to "help" a LD person realize their full sexual potential, I do NOT think that the responsibility should rest solely on the HD person's shoulders. LD people have a responsibility to attend to the sexual aspect of their marriage. Because sex is - and should be - part of a good marriage.

One way that women show men their appreciation is by having (enthusiastic) sex with them. Period. Men do all types of things they don't want to do to make their wives happy. Shouldn't women - regardless of their "emotional state" or "sex drive" - show their husbands the same consideration?


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Sawney
> 
> Thanks for your thoughtful post. I appreciate that you took the time and I understand better.
> 
> I am hypersensitive to the plight of unhappily married men and women.


Cheers! Like I said before, if I want to pick a fight there's no doubt about the fact. Our emphasis is different, and I'm probably not as kind / sensitive as you are. I'm more likely to just tell someone straight out to pull their finger out


> It disturbs me that it seems women get little understanding when their unhappiness is expressed as an inability to have sex.


Some of the problem here is a disconnect between "inability" and "unwillingness". The same applies to men. They will claim an "inability" to meet their wives' emotional needs. In some cases, there is a real inability, but most of the time, they aren't willing to try, put in the graft, risk getting it wrong and keep trying anyway. After all it's easier to complain or say you can't than put the effort in, isn't it?



> I am not referring to you Sawney but, the general tenor of the forum.


With reservations, I agree. However, for some people the only way they will learn is by being "beasted" a bit, and being made to face up to hard facts they don't like. Maybe some people take this too hard, and it doesn't help them...


> Men express their unhappiness by not communicating or getting angry but are still able to have sex.
> These gender-based differences are normal. Women are not broken for being women and men are not jerks for being men.


No, jerks are jerks because they are jerks. And neither sex has a monopoly on ignorance and stupidity.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Jane,
Posts like your below are pure gold. 

Yesterday my W and I went to play tennis. A couple things happened. When we got to the court there was clearly a good side and a bad side. On the bad side - the sun was heavily in your eyes. My W has a tendency towards getting headaches in overly "bright" lighting. Always has. I took the bright side without mentioning the lighting. She tried to get me to switch a couple times - I kept mentioning how much I like to keep to a side once I get used to it. Stuff like that happens all the time. I love my W. I want to do nice things for her. I LIKE putting her first. 

And in the bedroom she seems to have a sincere desire to put me first. She always has. And that is not just about sex. Friday night I was so tired there is no way I could have performed - I got a killer back massage. 




janemilda said:


> Speaking as a woman, my unhappiness is not expressed as a desire not to have sex. On the other hand, Hubby does not want to get horizontal if we've been fighting because he's more of an emotional person than I. So... it doesn't always work that way.
> 
> That said, while I do believe a HD person should do what they can to "help" a LD person realize their full sexual potential, I do NOT think that the responsibility should rest solely on the HD person's shoulders. LD people have a responsibility to attend to the sexual aspect of their marriage. Because sex is - and should be - part of a good marriage.
> 
> One way that women show men their appreciation is by having (enthusiastic) sex with them. Period. Men do all types of things they don't want to do to make their wives happy. Shouldn't women - regardless of their "emotional state" or "sex drive" - show their husbands the same consideration?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lovergood2 (Mar 6, 2012)

Just get the hell out of the Marriage , with no kids it is easy . Please take a word from me do not marry again just get what you need SEX 

As one of my friends said wedding cake is a recipe for less SEX , I am married too with three kids I get it once a week after begging , and begging , I buy flowers , clean the house , cook , pay all the Bills , Still I starve thanks to my Admin assistant at work she does me well , have been doing this for the past 12 years works for me . I use protection always and we agreed to go testing every month my salary is $350K a year so I can afford this , Business trips are fun love every moment of them when I travel with my secretary there is no begging we go for it


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

I am curious about the birth control possibility, im in a very similar situation and honestly think it could be a possibility bt she refuses to do anything. if you have any luck be sure to lmk how it all goes

My story incase youre curious.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/41086-newlywed-desperate-help.html


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## Zzyzx (Aug 24, 2011)

lovergood2 said:


> Just get the hell out of the Marriage , with no kids it is easy . Please take a word from me do not marry again just get what you need SEX
> 
> As one of my friends said wedding cake is a recipe for less SEX , I am married too with three kids I get it once a week after begging , and begging , I buy flowers , clean the house , cook , pay all the Bills , Still I starve thanks to my Admin assistant at work she does me well , have been doing this for the past 12 years works for me . I use protection always and we agreed to go testing every month my salary is $350K a year so I can afford this , Business trips are fun love every moment of them when I travel with my secretary there is no begging we go for it


With no kids present, no time like the present to leave. I do not believe cheating is a good option, if you are contemplating cheating, should really just leave. As long as this problem hangs over you, kids should not be on the agenda. Until and unless it resolved, what you have is as good as it will ever get. She may be a decent person otherwise (and I agree that makes it tougher), but as long as you stay with her without consequence, you are telling her it's OK to be the way she is.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Tosh, hormonal birth control may absolutely be an issue. It f's with many women. Sometimes permanently.


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## LadyFrog (Feb 27, 2012)

sinnister said:


> The more stories I read here and the more I analyze my own situation, the more I come to see that it really is as simple as you've stated.
> 
> Status quo
> Divorce
> ...



Yep.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Catherine,
No question there needs to be a "meeting of the minds" about things that are important to both spouses. 

I do believe that many male posters start out with:
- I do x,y and z around the house and
- Help with the kids and
- Am kind, talk to my W, listen to her, etc...
- Take her on dates, etc.

And yet, many folks who chime in on the thread ignore that and tell him to do: the same list of stuff he initially posted.

Often in those marriages the man has let himself get slowly moved into the "taken for granted / not important" bucket. When you combine that with a LD wife's busy schedule, sex gets mostly eliminated because she doesn't start out feeling any desire. 

Compounding the situation HE never made the transition from the "initial" sexual dynamic where she did start out aroused, to the "new" one where she doesn't. 

I give my W a lot of credit for realizing this dynamic early in our marriage and teaching me how to get her from neutral to warm to hot. BUT we had a few big advantages:
- She is inherently a fair person. She saw all the effort I put into the marriage outside the bedroom and felt she needed to reciprocate. 
- I was able to provide for our family so she could be a SAHM which was very important to her. And since she was good with money we had no financial stress. I mention this because financial tension and resentments spill into many bedrooms and harm many marriages.
- We are VERY compatible non-sexually. She knows I love her "overall" and really love her company. And she loves mine. 
- She knew that (absent illness) sex was not optional so she was motivated to find a way to make it good for her as well as for me. This one is BIG, because we never had a conversation where she said "I never knew it was so important to you" - ROTFL. Quite the opposite. 
- I KNEW that as the HD partner I needed to be responsible about avoiding things I knew turned her off, and making an effort to do things that turned her on. And that list of stuff includes things in and outside the bedroom. 
- I eventually learned to be happy with a frequency "middle ground" that was good for both of us. For a long time the middle ground was closer to 80% in my favor - not fair to her and not good for US. 
- I never tolerated disrespectful behavior - my W is a fitness testing junky. Didn't know that was what they were - but in my own (mostly clumsy for the first half the marriage) manner, I passed them. 
- She is/was wonderfully, beautifully incredibly honest and open about what "worked" and didn't work inside and outside the bedroom. I NEVER would have figured all this stuff out on my own. 

MANY men seem to have boundary issues. For instance tolerating truly blatant pity sex. Blatant pity sex is a deadly insult to a real man. It just is. I am not talking about whether your W has an "O". Rather the vibe you get as to whether or not she WANTS to be doing it with you. If my W didn't feel joy from pleasing me, I would have no interest in sex. 





Catherine602 said:


> Sawney
> 
> My sense that your lack of tolerance is reserved for women only. I get that from the vehemence of your many posts on the subject. Of course I may be wrong.
> 
> ...


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> Catherine,
> No question there needs to be a "meeting of the minds" about things that are important to both spouses.
> 
> I do believe that many male posters start out with:
> ...


I've noticed this a lot. He says he does all of these things and it has not improved the relationship. Then people tell him that he needs to do all of these things to improve the relationship. It's like an understanding mismatch.

The other thing is that the men get told they should do all of these things WITHOUT the expectation of the relationship getting better. That is to say, to continue to meet the partner's needs without any expectation of having their own needs met. Which sounds like a long winded way of saying "let yourself be taken for granted".

Disclaimer: the above can also be seen frequently in threads where people meet their partner's sexual needs but have their own non-sexual needs ignored. And it's just as unhelpful there.



> Often in those marriages the man has let himself get slowly moved into the "taken for granted / not important" bucket. When you combine that with a LD wife's busy schedule, sex gets mostly eliminated because she doesn't start out feeling any desire.
> 
> Compounding the situation HE never made the transition from the "initial" sexual dynamic where she did start out aroused, to the "new" one where she doesn't.


He doesn't know how, and I suspect in a number of cases, the wife doesn't actually want him to.



> I give my W a lot of credit for realizing this dynamic early in our marriage and teaching me how to get her from neutral to warm to hot. BUT we had a few big advantages:
> <edited for space>


MEM, YOU are the only person married to your wife. Many, many people are married to partners to tick far fewer of the boxes you and your wife tick. Remember how everyone laughed at Donald Rumsfeld when he said "You go to war with the army you have, not the army you want"? The difference was he could decide to alter the US army, and the US would alter. It would take time, money and effort, but it would. Spouses cannot make the wholesale changes they would like to see in their partners the way Rummy could go through the US army if he felt like it. If your partner won't be like MEM's wife, you cannot re-make her in that image.



> MANY men seem to have boundary issues. For instance tolerating truly blatant pity sex. Blatant pity sex is a deadly insult to a real man. It just is. I am not talking about whether your W has an "O". Rather the vibe you get as to whether or not she WANTS to be doing it with you. If my W didn't feel joy from pleasing me, I would have no interest in sex.


There are a lot of people who will take what they are given because to them it IS a better option than none at all. 

To those married to people who will NOT allow themselves to be got into the mood for sex, but will only do it when they feel turned on on their own terms, the options are to take it, or leave it, which essentially means to leave.


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## HopeFloats59 (Feb 27, 2012)

SprucHub said:


> Tosh, hormonal birth control may absolutely be an issue. It f's with many women. Sometimes permanently.


I agree. In my own experience, I was on BC for a year or two, and it completely messed with my system. For some people, BC works fine, but for me it was NOT GOOD. 6 years after stopping BC, I'm still working towards getting my menstrual cycle normal. I do remember there was a good 1 year period right after I stopped BC that I had no sexual thoughts or urges at all. I've always been pretty HD, so this was strange. Luckily I was in a long distance relationship, so it wasn't as much of an issue. But I've always been one that thinks about sex and wants sex quite often (to the point where my friends have joked that I'm "like a guy"), so the lack of thoughts was surprising. 

Is your wife very small framed? I'm petite, 5'3" and 105 lbs, and I notice that side effects from medications like BC would affect me a lot more after I lost weight. I used to be 135 lbs, and I wouldn't feel nearly as nauseous or sick from medications back then. If your wife refuses to stop BC, you can see what kind she is taking and see if there is a low-dosage version of it.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Sawney
> 
> My sense that your lack of tolerance is reserved for women only. I get that from the vehemence of your many posts on the subject. Of course I may be wrong.
> 
> ...


I know one of the first things I ask is have you really told her how you feel? If not then communication is the real issue and since that is probably one of her needs it may indicate a breakdown in the marriage. I also usually recommend the couple read _His Needs, Her Needs_ together because I think of all the books I've read it breaks this dynamic down in the best and easiest to understand way possible. Many times also I think the man has to take charge and lead. Too often men are afraid to try lead with action and instead try to use emotionally blackmail for sex. This is much different from communication because it places the man in the role of beggar. IMO, wives are usually not turned on by begging or whining. Bottom line is that while negotiation in marriage is often required, true understanding is most times more effective.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dean,
That is a great point. She does trust me. 






*Dean* said:


> I don't see this word used much on TAM but after reading MEM's post,
> the word TRUST really jumps out at me. He doesn't say it but it is there.
> 
> MEM has really built up TRUST. His wife really TRUSTS him.
> ...


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## BlueDuvet (Mar 12, 2012)

Klaus said:


> When I ask her if she even likes sex, she says she really does enjoy it, but just doesn't need it as much as I do.


I've been married to my husband for four years - first year was good with sex and now I'm lucky if I too get it once a month. What you've said is exactly what my husband says. 

I'm trying to take steps to work on me - pay these debts and re-assess.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thinking about my post, I think that I did not put enough emphasis on the aspect of LD partner. I can't answer why LD partner would not want to work with their partner to become arroused. I suspect a couple of things that i posted below. So yes, it cannot be on the HD partners responsibility. 

As many have mentioned, some LD spouses have the notion that they don't have to do what they don't feel like doing. That's OK, but if their husband cools off towards them spends more time on his persuits and the kids, I think the LD spouse will feel that it is not right. The LD partner may even say it is because we are not having sex. No its because He feels emotionally disconnected. This is not tit for tat, it is expression of the pain of the HD partner. Making sure that the relationship is good not perfect but both are putting in the effort in the non-sexual ares of the relationship.

If everything within reason is in place, not indentured slavery to get sex but a dignified participation in the family life, then it is time to cool it down. 

Another important thing is the mistaken notion about the LD partner not having to blah blah... This comes from a culture that uses the male model of sexuality as the norm. Men feel desire, arrousal follows and they are off and running. It is only within the last 10 years that female sexuality has been researched in systematic ways. 

There are recent studies indicating that women need to be arroused to feel desire, it takes time for them to connect with the arrousal. That is why foreplay and time is essential. Women are much more likely to become distracted by stress, overwork and children during sex. Men can focus easily. Female sexuality is more complex and fragile then male sexuality. 

If both parties know, accept and understand these differences, they can work with them. Women will understand that it is normal to not feel desire or to think about sex as much as men. Women will understand that many men need sex to feel emotionally attached to the woman they love. Some get depressed and think their wives don't love them. Some feel like less of a man. Many many women don't know that. I didn't until I read it. 

So there are many areas that need work. It is not a simple issue. I think that you can see why hostility towards women, anger, assumption of evil intent and accusations o a feninazi cabal get nowhere. 

A smarter approach would be to learn and use the knowledge about female sexuality to approach the problem. I can't understand why anyone would think that hostility directed towards women will make a woman want to have sex. Sex is an intimate act that takes acceptance and trust as MEM said so well. That is not consistent with a bad attitude. The LD spouse is pushed into a corner and comes out fighting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> A smarter approach would be to learn and use the knowledge about female sexuality to approach the problem. I can't understand why anyone would think that hostility directed towards women will make a woman want to have sex. Sex is an intimate act that takes acceptance and trust as MEM said so well. That is not consistent with a bad attitude. The LD spouse is pushed into a corner and comes out fighting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I suspect the hostility comes about because all the talking, communicating, understanding, sharing workloads, attempting to de-stress, removing distractions, support, attempts to build trust, lowering expectations, encouragement and so on don't improve peoples' sex lives, and all that's left in the toolbox is anger.

This applies to both sexes. Read the stories, and both men and women, after trying and trying without any kind of success, what do they have left? At the very best, resignation. Otherwise a mixture of anger, bitterness, disappointment and resentment, in varying proportions.

The question perhaps under these circumstances, is "Why the hell would they be anything else?"


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## yolo62 (Dec 19, 2013)

There are no kids and no complications, so what are you waiting for? If your wife fails to understand and satisfy and causing you endless frustrations, cut her loose and start again!

I am in my late 50's and still need to have it at least once or twice a month. I know my wife is no too keen and she only does it to keep me quiet for another few weeks, but I get to release my stress and that's ok by me.

Hope my comment helps!






Klaus said:


> My wife and I are in our late twenties and have been married for five years - no kids. On average, we have sex once a month. It has been this way since day one. We have discussed this in depth more times then I can remember, all conversations are started by me and are usually a one sided conversation because she goes quiet and says absolutely nothing. I am always very relaxed, never placing blame. I am really just trying to get her to open up but I get nothing. She acknowledges everything and says she wants to work on it, but never does.
> 
> She never initiates sex. When we do have sex it is consistently the weekend before her period starts, in the bedroom, same positions same everything. It feels like she does it just to satisfy me and shut me up for another month. I have tried introducing her to toys, different positions, porn, sex-ed videos, sex/relationship books, lingerie, etc. but nothing further ever comes of it. I've tried talking about fantasies and such with her, but she says she has none. I try being romantic but that always ends in snuggling. She say's I am to abrupt and obvious when I want sex, but when I go for a more subtle and seductive approach she is completely oblivious. I have suggested that perhaps the pill inhibiting her sex drive, but she refuses to even consider the posibility and ask her doctor. It is like sex is never, ever on her mind.
> 
> ...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> She doesn't like it. She is not going to change. You can:
> - be miserable and stay married
> - have an open marriage
> - divorce


I agree this is probably what's going on.

The only other thing you can try is to tell her flat-out that you expect meeting your needs (a good sex life delivered in a cheerful manner) to be a priority for her.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I think the dichotomy identifies why the angry men have problems. They place a greater importance on sex and meeting their needs than any other aspect of an intimate mutually satisfying relationship with their spouse.
> 
> Some are equally resistant to accepting a workable solution as some LD women. But they are rarely challenged for this attitude.
> 
> ...


This is an interesting question Catherine602, and I'll weigh in.

I don't think the issue (at least from a man's perspective) is as you noted above. That suggests the women in these unhappy relationships are not lower drive but need awakening. It is more likely there is a big drive mismatch. The LD spouse doesn't see providing out of generosity (or just telling the HD spouse he's out of luck and accepting the consequences) as a good option. The situation is (as you noted in another thread) the LD person doesn't want and thus doesn't have sex.

I went through exactly this with my ex, and most of the stories I've ready sound pretty much the same. Us guys do what we think will work, then nothing changes. Then, we ask our wives what will work, and nothing changes. Finally, we come to these types of boards for advice, take the advice given (if it's not something already tried), and nothing changes.

I told my ex the situation was unfair - too much effort for too little reward. If she had said "you do what I like and I'll do what you like", and stuck to it, we would have been fine. Instead, her response was if I meet her needs day in and day out, then she will have sex with me when and how she deems appropriate.

My hunch is most of the guys here perceive this is how any such effort to ramp up the sex. I got tired of bumping my head against a wall, and I'm certainly not going to tell a guy "go ahead, suck it up one more time, and pour on the attention - just in case" when I know the chance of it working is near nil.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Zombie thread alert...

C


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