# My not so great past has come up in a bad way



## TammyAB

I guess what I need is some honest (and anonymous!) advice. Sorry is this is a bit of a ramble – it’s just that I need to get it out.

Just when I thought that all men were the same (and not in good ways), I met a guy I’ll call Chris. Chris is just so much fun to be with. He’s intelligent, has his act together, is handsome, has a real future,and is just an honest to goodness good human being. We’ve been dating for almost a year and it’s really been the best year of my life.

I’m old enough and hopefully wise enough to know that nobody is perfect. I’m for sure not. Anyway Chris really doesn’t have any bad traits, but he is a bit on the shy side and is kind of introspective. He’s told me pretty much everything about him which is something that was just not easy for him to do. We’ve shared with each other our hopes, experiences, and dreams for the future. 

Before I met Chris, I went through a phase when I didn’t think or act as I should have. I was a bit casual about relationships and thought I was having a good time. When I started dating Chris, everything was just so different and good in every way. We’ve had the “past loves and not quite loves” conversation. I didn’t lie but seeing that Chris was sensitive in this area, I glossed over some stuff. 

This week he was with a lot of people “somewhere” and he ran into a bunch of guys he hadn’t seen in a while. He told me about it – no big deal. I guess they all relived past war stories and whatever. A couple are married, some are dating. When pics came out, Chris said he proudly showed mine. All good – again no big deal.

Well yesterday, when we got together he was not himself. I kept asking if he was OK and he kept saying yes. Anyway at some point he threw out a name and asked if I know that guy. It was a guy I was “seeing” when I met Chris. Not a good person at all but I guess I didn’t see that then. 

That guy was part of the group where Cris was earlier this week, so I guess when he saw my photo he recognized me. I guess since then he’s been bragging and mouthing off to whoever will listen that he ”knew” me and that he had done ”such and such” and crap like that. Somehow it got back to Chris.

When I said he was a guy I met a long time ago and didn’t care for, Chris blurted out and asked if I had sex with that so and so. I was sort of in the headlights and asked him why he would ask me something like that. He then asked me if I had done “such and such” with that a-hole. I think I just said this is crazy where are you getting this. Anyway, we got silent and it was uncomfortable and he left and went back to the office.

We’re going to get together tonight and I know this is going to hang there. Should I bring it up? What if he brings it up? What do I say and how should I say it? Fact is I was with that guy and we did kind of do a lot of stuff. I hate this. I just so hate this.


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## 2ntnuf

Just my opinion and you certainly don't have to accept it.

Gently back away from him and move on with your life. He is not the one for you. If he can't accept you for all of who you are, he will not be happy with you and you will find yourself hurt more than you are now.


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## Revamped

I get that Cris was embarrassed and caught off guard when some random dude told him he had slept with you, his girlfriend. 

But Cris also knew he wasn't the first in your life. I say, don't fall for any bait he throws at you about this. You can tell him that it was a long time ago, realized the random dude was just a fling, and now you both have moved on. If this is really the hill your relationship dies on, then he just isn't the right one for you.


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## MachoMcCoy

TammyAB said:


> Should I bring it up? What if he brings it up?


Well, SOMEBODY has to bring it up. Might as well be you. if there's one thing I learned in my life and confirmed on these forums, rugsweeping is NEVER a viable option.


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## TammyAB

I can't believe people here are telling me to leave Chris. I don't want to leave Chris! He has treated me better than any other guy I've ever known. Why would I do that? I love him and he loves me.

Also, the jerk guy did not tell Chris. He probably mouthed off to people and it got back to Chris.


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## Revamped

No one is telling you to leave Cris. He may just come to that conclusion all on his own.


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## mr.bunbury

It might be that the two of you are not right for each other like others have suggested but you should not give up without a struggle, why don't you have a good talk with him about the subject, ask him what bothers him and show how much you care, many men are sensitive on the subject of their woman's past so try being helpful about that.


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## Kylie84

Just be honest with Chris. 
Tell him "yes I did such and such with that guy, NOT while in a serious relationship with you this was before you. You knew I am not a virgin, and I did not know he would be in the group of people you met up with the other day. Had I known, I would have warned you so I am sorry if you are upset because you are embarrassed."
Leave it at that. You have no reason to apologize to any more than that as this had nothing to do with your current relationship.
If Chris is a big boy then he will get the heck over it


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## seasalt

Tell him that you respect him and would never knowingly allow him to have contact with someone you have been intimate with. That means anyone you currently keep in touch with. In addition you should reveal, if in your past you were more casual about sex than you wish you had been, any videos or photographs he might see that you would rather he didn't.

It sounds like he is wondering how someone he loves could have been with someone he really detests. He is questioning himself about you and you need to reassure him that his origina thoughts were the correct ones,

Good luck,

Seasalt


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## 2ntnuf

I agree with him questioning himself. I think he's wondering if who he sees now is who you really are or if you are still that person you were. I bet he has a lot of questions in his head like, how could she be interested in me when he and I are so different? 

In the end, that part of you is always with you. You may have changed what you do, but you are still that person who did those things. You can always go back to some similar way of life. 

He treats you well because he thought you were someone you are not. He may not treat you the same now, because you are not the person you portrayed yourself to be. You are not the person he really wanted. 

Although, you may change his mind about that, my guess from the many threads I've read is that the beast will rear it's ugly head again someday, after you are both entrenched in a marriage with children and so forth. Unless he makes some changes in how he thinks, which would require him living the way you did, he will always be leaning on the side of you aren't the person he thought you were. He may always have doubts and those will come at critical times when you need him most. 

I obviously could be underestimating him. I'm just relating that there is a higher than average likelihood that this will come back someday to haunt you. So many marriages end in divorce today, you want the best possible chance for it to survive and thrive. That takes compatibility in all areas of your lives. 

And...I'm not judging you. What you did is your business. This is about compatibility and possibly saving you from a tough life. He might need to get into counseling to think about his stance on this stuff and change his mind about it. Is it really worth that? I don't think you can talk somebody into changing beliefs like that. I think they have to live it themselves to change their mind?


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## As'laDain

you never know, i was the shy guy who found out about an old acquaintance of mine having banged my girlfriend once. 

i asked her if it was true as well. i wanted to know if the guy was making **** up or not. it didnt really change my opinion of her. 
the thing that changed my opinion of her was when she started banging another dude...

hmm... maybe my story isnt helpful...


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## Mr.Fisty

Well, tell him the truth, and it is your past.

Remind him that you have mature since then, and you now have different needs.

He needs to grow thicker skin, and be more assertive. 

He has to be able to accept your past, and recognize the changes in you. 

Until you say more about Chris, that is what I can figure out so far.

Do you want him to more confident, and take charge a bit more?


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## LongWalk

You need to be honest.

Tell him that you had a life before him and there were other men and sex. Today he is the man in your life, not a fvck buddy, conquest, jerk boyfriend, but a person of quality with whom you feel a deep attachment. You can understand that male pride instinctually dislikes the idea of a woman not being exclusive. That is the selfish gene in him. You accept that he feels uncomfortable.

What you can do is explain that your heart is open to him. You don't want to recount your entire sex life to him if he is just going to feel disgust and hate you for it. Better to end your relationship if that is what it is going to come to.

Tell him that you are his and only his. You like it this way.

Look him in the eye. Stand straight. Be honest. 

Also, if an a-hole from your past gets to decide who your BF is happy with, that shows that you BF is insecure. 

You don't have any children, right?

That says something about your view of past guys. How old are you? Your BF?


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## 2ntnuf

> Also, if an a-hole from your past gets to decide who your BF is happy with, that shows that you BF is insecure.


I see this all the time. If she had not had the past she does, and he chose to leave her for some other reason, would he still be insecure? I don't believe it's all insecurity. It can be straight understanding of what his boundaries are and what he wants in a wife. 

If he doesn't want to have to deal with this kind of thing potentially coming up from time to time, that's his right. It's not like anyone is obligated to stay with someone who loves them, if the feelings are not reciprocal. If you want to go there, seems like you could go full circle and say, if she doesn't let him go, she is obsessed with him. I don't think either is the case.


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## Thor

TammyAB said:


> I didn’t lie but seeing that Chris was sensitive in this area, I glossed over some stuff.


You lied to Chris. "Glossing over stuff" means you did not tell him information which accurately represented the situation. It is not the truth if you intend for him to get the wrong impression.




TammyAB said:


> Anyway at some point he threw out a name and asked if I know that guy. It was a guy I was “seeing” when I met Chris.


And then you told him ...



TammyAB said:


> When I said he was a guy I met a long time ago and didn’t care for


Which was ... A LIE. Oh yes you may have initially met him decades ago, but you were seeing him, screwing him, doing whatever it was Chris heard about, at the time you met Chris.

What you did with this guy was your choice, and is history which cannot be changed. Regardless of whatever judgments anybody (including you) make about what you did with this guy, the important fact is that YOU LIED to Chris about when you were sexually and/or emotionally involved with this other guy.




TammyAB said:


> Chris blurted out and asked if I had sex with that so and so. I was sort of in the headlights and asked him why he would ask me something like that. He then asked me if I had done “such and such” with that a-hole. I think I just said this is crazy where are you getting this. Anyway, we got silent and it was uncomfortable and he left and went back to the office.


So once again you avoided telling the truth to Chris. Lies of omission. And I bet Chris is manufacturing all kinds of crazy ideas in his mind about what you and this other guy really did.

If I were Chris, I'd end the relationship due to your lies.


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## Pufferfish

Thor said:


> If I were Chris, I'd end the relationship due to your lies.


I'm with Thor on this one. "Glossed over" is still telling porkies. 

I would say it don't matter who or what you were doing before. It's your untruths that did the damage. It's got nothing to do with how mature a guy is in dealing / accepting his girlfriends past. It's breached trust, pure and simple. 

Chris is probably wondering what other truths you have been economical with. As far as he knows, you could still be at it with this guy and lying to him about it. Trust is like butterfly wings, once touched they never get off the ground properly again.

So you might want to begin by restoring trust if you want to try and save this.


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## mr.bunbury

LongWalk said:


> You can understand that male pride instinctually dislikes the idea of a woman not being exclusive. That is the selfish gene in him


Selfish gene? Id call it common sense.

I agree we have to be supportive of whoever started the thread here but that's overdoing it.


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## the guy

So did you guys talk?


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## manfromlamancha

OK so I do understand Chris' reaction to finding out this way, because a small lifetime ago as a much younger man, I went through the same thing and I was not mature enough to handle the conversation with the [email protected] that was mouthing off. In any case, my gf (now my wife) put me straight and helped me "grow up".

Firstly, when you say glossed over, I am guessing it was to spare Chris' feelings by not going over finer details or every single relationship ? In any case, Chris has to accept that you like millions of other people have a sexual past.

You need to also understand his position that he cannot be wandering into people that have slept with you, unaware of the fact. He needs to know, if for no other reason, to avoid these people. So you should ask him if that is the reason he wants to know, then tell him the truth of people that he could run into even if it is just a small chance that he might.

Other than that, as others have said, stand tall and tell him the past is the past and that you are with him because you love him and hopes he loves you too. Tell him you understand how he feels and want to help him with that but do not apologise for your past in any way. As for the other piece of [email protected], you should ask him to [email protected] with him or avoid him and if he does not respect you, no one else will.

I turned things around by standing by my gf and tearing new holes in the other guy(s) if they were disrespectful to the girl I loved. But it needed a talk from my (then) gf to help me see this and act on it.


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## Flying_Dutchman

Since my mid 20s (longer ago than I care to think about) I haven't counted on meeting and dating too many virgins. Chances are that any new GF has a past and, particularly in a small town, I'm gonna know or encounter some of her exes. Should any of those exes brag about what they did in their intimate moments, that reflects poorly on the bragger, not my new GF.

I really don't care what she may've got up to with former partners, only whether she's compatible with me.

So, I think the OP has uncovered a ***** in Mr Perfect's armour - getting his undies in a twist cuz once upon a time she had sex with somebody else.

It's a red flag to an underlying insecurity. If the OP wants to overlook it, that's her biz. I know I wouldn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe

Good evening TammyAB
I lean in the direction that you should leave Chris - not because of what you did, but because of what HE did. 

People have pasts. Unless you represented to him that you were innocence itself, you did not deceive him in any way. 

Find someone who loves what you are, and doesn't care what you did. 

Or - talk to your BF. See if he can be content knowing that you have a past, and that you are not going to tell him all the details.


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## Thebes

I'm sure Cris is not a virgin either. Sounds like he has double standards.

I'm sure it hurt him to hear that but it was before you two were seeing each other. Ask him should you become upset if you were to hear about his past love life.


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## SimplyAmorous

I disagree that it's always an insecurity in these men... if they themselves did not go around sleeping with anything that moved.. or were the type to NOT separate Love & Sex (some of those still exist thankfully).. 

Notice what she said here 



> *TammyAB said*: I went through a phase when I didn’t think or act as I should have. I was a bit casual about relationships and thought I was having a good time.


It's obvious this has much to do with the SORT OF IDIOT Jerk this guy is...her BF called him a A-hole..I am sure he was quite deserving of this label... this is WHY he is SO upset, not that she is not some virgin....

1st of all, if the A-hole was a GOOD guy, a worthy male... he wouldn't be throwing around his sexual exploits, now would he ? No, he'd have more respect for the woman he once slept with.. .

So what happened here was ....of course the New man is upset [email protected]#$... ..because it speaks something to her value system at one time..choosing to sleep with someone LIKE THAT...... so I can see easily how some men (again the good guys) would care about this sort of thing..

Not insecurity at all.. just calling into question the type of choices his GF made in the past.. in regards to love.. and sex... why give any jerks the time of day? 

Does that mean she is the same person today...NO it doesn't..... people can change, realize Bragging bad boys are not worth her time, and surely not her body... but this IS deserving of a full conversation to where she has been, and how she has grown from it.... so he can see ...and feel.. she is a different woman today.. valuing more than "just sex"...or a "good time"...


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## SimplyAmorous

richardsharpe said:


> *Good evening TammyAB
> I lean in the direction that you should leave Chris - not because of what you did, but because of what HE did.
> 
> People have pasts. Unless you represented to him that you were innocence itself, you did not deceive him in any way. *
> 
> Find someone who loves what you are, and doesn't care what you did.
> 
> Or - talk to your BF. See if he can be content knowing that you have a past, and that you are not going to tell him all the details.


Well I happen to think that would be the most FOOLISH thing imaginable in her shoes..... did you read what she said about this wonderful guy !.... 



TammyAB said:


> *Just when I thought that all men were the same (and not in good ways), I met a guy I’ll call Chris. Chris is just so much fun to be with. He’s intelligent, has his act together, is handsome, has a real future,and is just an honest to goodness good human being. We’ve been dating for almost a year and it’s really been the best year of my life.*





TammyAB said:


> *I can't believe people here are telling me to leave Chris. I don't want to leave Chris! He has treated me better than any other guy I've ever known. Why would I do that? I love him and he loves me.*


You know ...people who like to RAT on the good guy...DUMP HIM! OH he is sooooo Insecure...all the Double standard BS coming out now.. I couldn't disagree more so... 

You found yourself a loving , caring sensitive natured GOOD GUY..who has blown you away -redeeming your belief in love again.... I married one of these types...and that beautiful sensitivity will reach into many areas of LIFE and love that will BLESS YOU down the road.. to push this back on him for being upset -to even think of letting him go (which I know you would never want to do) ... it's not the right decision for your life.. You have more faith in him over that... don't you ??

Where is poster Samyeagar when you need him!? -he can relate to this situation.. he married her.. and they are very happy!

You've been with him for a year now... the emotional connection has taken hold, you have shared memories , I bet you are compatible in many ways.....you & he *can *get past this.. 

I say you are blessed to find him.. and do all you can to hold on tight.. you & he can overcome this..


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## firebelly1

So...yeah...when he confronted you, you lied. And now you are going to have to fess up to that. I'm wondering what "those" things are that you did with this other guy and why they upset Chris so much. Are they things that he has asked you to do and you said "no"? Are they things that he might find disgusting? 

You have to be entirely honest with him. And see where you go from there. The lying in and of itself may become a deal-breaker but it may be that you had sex with THAT guy or that you did THOSE things with him.


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## richie33

Posters so quick to say dump him. Guy had a human reaction to news he just learned about his girlfriend. Let the man process it and then he can move on from it.


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## Buddy400

firebelly1 said:


> I'm wondering what "those" things are that you did with this other guy and why they upset Chris so much. Are they things that he has asked you to do and you said "no"? Are they things that he might find disgusting?
> 
> ... but it may be that you had sex with THAT guy or that you did THOSE things with him.


Exactly!


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## As'laDain

mr.bunbury said:


> Selfish gene? Id call it common sense.
> 
> I agree we have to be supportive of whoever started the thread here but that's overdoing it.


hmm... it appears that someone is not familiar with Dawkins work...

oh well. probably better that way.


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## Wolf1974

Could it be that this person is someone Chris really doesn't like or respect and that's why this is bothering him so much?

That could defintely happen for either gender...just wondering if more to the story


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## firebelly1

EB - how many men does it take before a woman has taken in so much cum that she is now a "dumpster"? Does she only count as a dumpster if she's taken in X volume of cum by Y number of guys or is she okay if she took in the same volume of cum by just one guy? 

Oy. 

OP said her BF has a problem with this one guy and the things she did with him not him and his 40 friends. The PC way to have said what I think you wanted to say was that once a guy meets his gf's ex lover, it's hard to unthink them in bed together. 

For the record I'd say that is true for women as well. If I met an ex lover of my bf's and she started mouthing off about this amazing thing they used to do together in bed it would take me a little while to shake it. But if I asked him about it and he tried to rugsweep it, I basically would lose my trust in him and we'd be done.


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## Thor

We go around and around on TAM with this general topic of people's pasts with great regularity. I don't think it is valid to apply sweeping judgments to people's pasts. I also dislike that the OP has devalued her past. 



TammyAB said:


> Before I met Chris, I went through a phase when I didn’t think or act as I should have. I was a bit casual about relationships and thought I was having a good time. When I started dating Chris, everything was just so different and good in every way.


Tammy, you made choices at the time based on your values, beliefs, and interpretations of situations. Hopefully you felt good at the time about your choices, and indeed you say you thought you were having a good time. Were you having a good time?

If so there is nothing to apologize for. But, you might now have been exposed to more life experience and have different beliefs and interpretations. The bad boy who seemed like fun back then might now look like a class-A jerk. You might have different perspectives on relationships now due to more experience with higher quality men.

Having said all that, Chris may have different values which conflict with your history. It may not be resolvable for him. Which is simply an incompatibility between you. It wouldn't be right for either one of you to stay long term with someone incompatible.


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## Buddy400

Thor said:


> I also dislike that the OP has devalued her past.


Are you saying that she shouldn't regret what she considers to have been mistakes?

I've done things I wasn't proud of. I don't deny them and I've tried to learn from them and move on. But, you're saying that I have to *value* them?


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## Flying_Dutchman

Nooooo,,

If there is a 'bad guy' here, it's Mr Christopher.

He's merrily slept with the OP for a year, only now to demand (not ask, DEMAND) specifics of her sexual history.

If a girl's history is that important to him he should ask before he hops in the sack with her.

- Are you a cùm dumpster? 

- Yep.

- Adios.

- Then, WHO believes the kind of guy who rats on his past conquests? At least, he's gonna be exaggerating. At worst - if he got dumped - suggesting she's a 'dirty skànk' is well within the bounds of the probable.

Chris, apparently, hangs on his every word.

Back to those 'demands'. Who makes demands of someone they profess to love? Demanding is aggressive, a form of bullying.

Also, Chris can't be too bright, or perceptive. The OP thinks he's God's gift. Safe to assume then, that she's not pining for whatever S&M, bi-sexual gàngbàngs the former loverboy ascribed to her. Whatever he said she did, she's happy with Chris NOW. He, apparently can't make the connection. He want's the orifice-by-orifice and thrust-per-minute account and, what, thinks that'll make him feel better?!

BOTH of them were happy. Now he's ruining it by believing half-truths and demanding answers he won't like.

The guy's an idiot. An insecure idiot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe

Insulting a guy who can't defend himself. And who's the idiot?


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## AliceA

I've never discussed with DH what I did with the men I was with before I met DH. He's divulged very few details himself. It's really none of my business and vice versa. I think we discussed number of partners but never, 'he did this and this' etc.

I'm a big believer in leaving the past in the past with enough information to give your partner a good idea of who you are and where you've been etc, but details of what happened sexually are between you and the person you were sexual with.

So while I think it would've been best to be up front with something you feel you weren't happy with in your past (such as, I slept with a few guys at once during a period where.... etc), as this is always a big red flag for something that will come back to bite you in the proverbial, and is also a glimpse into what has made you into who you are today, I don't think you should discuss intimate acts done with men before you met him. You shouldn't be afraid of revealing that you aren't perfect, but you've learned from your mistakes, and that's the sort of information he should know.


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## Flying_Dutchman

WorkingOnMe said:


> Insulting a guy who can't defend himself. And who's the idiot?


ANYONE who would sabotage an otherwise-good, year-long relationship cuz his girlfriend (who's history he didn't indicate he cared about when he got into bed with her - making him as guilty of any deceit as she is) once had some kind of sex HE thinks he has a right to shame her over.

You're right, he's not here. I/we can't help/advise people who aren't here.

OP can read the variety of opinions and take what she can from them. Don't see how your taking time out to insult me helps her any.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mostlycontent

Flying_Dutchman said:


> ANYONE who would sabotage an otherwise-good, year-long relationship cuz his girlfriend (who's history he didn't indicate he cared about when he got into bed with her - making him as guilty of any deceit as she is) once had some kind of sex HE thinks he has a right to shame her over.
> 
> You're right, he's not here. I/we can't help/advise people who aren't here.
> 
> OP can read the variety of opinions and take what she can from them. Don't see how your taking time out to insult me helps her any.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It's probably a good thing that Chris is not here to be advised by you. Your perspective is at best naive and at worst completely misguided. My W and I discussed our pasts with one another once we got very serious and decided that we wanted to get married.

Honestly, before that, I wouldn't have asked and didn't really care. I dated plenty of women and didn't care one bit about their pasts but then I wasn't looking to marry them and have them be the mother of my children either.

As the relationship becomes more serious and both parties begin to look at one another as potential life partners then what needs to be shared and what's important comes to the forefront. I asked my then GF (now Wife) questions about child rearing, faith preferences and the like and pretty much anything else I thought germane toward making a good choice for a wife.

It stands to reason that I would have asked her nothing of the sort if we were just casually dating. Of course you wouldn't ask a series of "compatibility" questions to a person you had no intention of marrying. What would be the point of that?


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## italianjob

Dating before going "serious" and eventually getting married or building a family together is an important phase because both members of the couple get to know each other and also get to make their own personal evaluation about the partner and the opportunity of making her/him become our intended SO for life.

Everyone of us has every right to take every element we value as important into consideration and to give every element the weight WE feel it should have.

I think Chris has every right to consider her past an important element for his evalution of her as a life partner and the OP has every right to consider his behaviour an equally important element in her evaluation, if she feels that his interest in her past is excessive. 

My advice to her is, if you feel you should have been more honest or transparent about your past you should tell him the whole truth now, but if you feel that you have told him everything he was entitled to and you think that should be enough, you should say so to him.


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## Flying_Dutchman

Mostlycontent said:


> My W and I discussed our pasts with one another once we got very serious and decided that we wanted to get married.
> 
> Honestly, before that, I wouldn't have asked and didn't really care. I dated plenty of women and didn't care one bit about their pasts but then I wasn't looking to marry them and have them be the mother of my children either.
> 
> As the relationship becomes more serious and both parties begin to look at one another as potential life partners then what needs to be shared and what's important comes to the forefront. I asked my then GF (now Wife) questions about child rearing, faith preferences and the like and pretty much anything else I thought germane toward making a good choice for a wife.
> 
> It stands to reason that I would have asked her nothing of the sort if we were just casually dating. Of course you wouldn't ask a series of "compatibility" questions to a person you had no intention of marrying. What would be the point of that?


Key words - Discussed. Talked.

Cosy. MUTUAL. Would been perfect with some hot mugs of Cocoa.

I'm not being facetious. Compare your fine example to the OP. Do you really think he went about 'asking' her in a kindly way?

Insisting she answer 'Did you sleep with that guy' and the rest sounds pretty intimidating and unecessary to me.

If she says 'yes', so what? It's an ex, lots of women have them. Am I naive to wonder why he's so (apparently) insistant about it?

By your own reasoning, OP says nothing about marriage. So, if they're casual, no need to ask her.

If they're 'planning a future' - just like you did. Mutual decision, mutual discussion.

The scenario in the OP reads 'bereft of mutual' to me and very akin to intimidation. If you see 'reasonable', fair enough. I guess the OP isn't certain either which is why she asked for opinions - plural.

Well, she has mine "he's an insecure idiot" and others suggesting she's a lying tramp. Who knows where the truth lies?

She's got what she came for. There'd be no reason for the forums if the OPs got 20 identical opinions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SimplyAmorous

Flying_Dutchman said:


> ANYONE who would sabotage an otherwise-good, year-long relationship cuz his girlfriend (who's history he didn't indicate he cared about when he got into bed with her - making him as guilty of any deceit as she is) once had some kind of sex HE thinks he has a right to shame her over.
> 
> You're right, he's not here. I/we can't help/advise people who aren't here.
> 
> OP can read the variety of opinions and take what she can from them. Don't see how your taking time out to insult me helps her any.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know what.. you'll NEVER get it Flying_Dutchman, cause your're simply NOT that sorta guy.. all the A-holes she slept with before wouldn't have give a damn either.. so yeah.. too bad she had to fall for one who cares.. 

Not saying he was all that wonderful himself, actually she hasn't spoken a word of HIS sexual PAST at all.. maybe he banged her on the 1st date too, or the 2nd or 3rd... didn't wait for an emotional connection.. maybe she can give us a clue here ??.. That would make a difference, like "how can he judge her jumping in the sack so fast with others??"...HE DID IT TOO!

He would surely need more Grace then, as that would = that pesky "double standard" .... 

BUT IF he's a guy who waits a little while till he actually has REAL feelings for a woman to sleep with her, assessing her character, if he's seeking something lasting... your judgement of him is all misplaced.. if some regard Sex in a more special light, holding more value to it over just "pleasure & a HOT fvck".....allow them this without insult..

He is probably not even this wonderful.. or THAT good of a guy.. but just saying.... such men DO exist... for those like you on this thread...you have no grace or consideration for another's sexual views, outside of your own..

If this woman wants to give the same attitude...she WILL BE HISTORY with this man.. Go ahead Op.. listen to the likes of Flying Dutchman... 

I think some of you here who think it's all fine & dandy need to realize we aren't all wired LIKE THAT.. if it matters to CHRIS.. it freaking matters to CHRIS.... our individual opinions mean very little.. she needs advice on how to deal with him.. if she wants to stay with him..

IF he can't get past it.. by all means, she will need to move on..

Our sexual views is a very deep part of who we are... and how we express ourselves, how we look at life & love....we don't all look through the same lens's....as another has said.. *it IS an issue of compatibility*...If this relationship would lead to marriage / children someday... that's another thing... what will they teach them ? It's important to go forth "united".. mistakes, we make them.. but understanding each other here.. it's vital to the overcoming..and moving forward together...


----------



## GA HEART

Cum dumpster. I've heard it all. Would someone still be considered such a thing if they used condems? Hmmmmm.....

My current BF has a past. So do I. We talked about it in some detail when first dating, I found his to be much more "varied" than mine. But he was way more concerned with mine than I was his. He got over it and it isn't an issue anymore. Past doesn't always indicate future. But BOTH partners have to be secure enough to accept it. Or not and move on.


----------



## alexm

Neither of you did anything wrong. The fact is, it's the other guy who's feeding Chris' insecurities, and you can't help that. Neither can he.

It's just poor circumstances. So you were seeing this guy when you met Chris. Happens that they know of each other. So what?

The real issue here is that he no longer feels a total compatibility with you, through no fault of your own (or his, really).

When I met my wife, she had been single for 8 or 9 months. She had gone on a couple of dates, including with a guy I went to grade and high school with. One date with him, no sex, didn't go out again. But it bothered me. No real reason for that, but it did. Do I know they didn't have sex? No, of course not, she may have been sparing my feelings. But I have to trust her.

You went out with a guy he knew, and did have sex with him. Yes, it was before him, and you had no idea. It really IS no big deal at the end of the day. But to him, it is. You can't help that, and he can't help that. Is it insecurity? Of course it is, but here's some dude talking about what he did to his girlfriend before you two met.

If anything, he's peeved that you (allegedly) had poor taste in men. This other guy's behavior "proves" it. It, unfortunately, makes him wonder if you were... easy, and that's not something any of us want to think about our partners, especially after we fall in love with them.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

Nope. He's defintely not like me.

I've never dated somebody for a year then, out of the blue, based on something I heard in a bar, GRILLED my intended about it. It's not THAT he asked, it's the way he did it.

Anyones opinion is based on an entire life's experience and observation. MINE leads me to conclude "red flag". Idiot may be a little mean.

I understand where you're coming from. I just call it as I see it as, I would hope, does everybody else. My disagreeing with (some of) them doesn't make them wrong. They're opinions, not facts,, and not presented as facts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## toonaive

"WHO believes the kind of guy who rats on his past conquests? At least, he's gonna be exaggerating. At worst - if he got dumped - suggesting she's a 'dirty skànk' is well within the bounds of the probable."

Chris needs to look at the source of the information. No man of any quality discusses this sort of thing. In company or not. He is allowing this jerk to caste you in a negative light for something that happened in the past. We ALL have made poor decisions. Its how you learn from them and move on. In my opinion, Chris, handled the situation poorly. He needs to work this out in private with you, deal with his own insecurities, and cut this cancer of a jerk out of your lives. If Chris cannot? Cut ties sooner rather than later, a better match is out there for you.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Hmmm... wonder if OP is coming back. 

This story is very veiled, vague and has holes in it.

Chris doesn't trust her.


----------



## samyeagar

I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but like all the other ones dealing with this issue, some people really don't know what they are talking about.

Yes, people have pasts, and most people know and gracefully accept that going into a relationship. The problems start when the past doesn't stay in the past. What people need to remember is that the things they have done with other people are not erased simply by saying it was in the past, and those things often have a way of becoming the present in a way, and at a time they don't choose.

My wife has a rather colorful past, and I didn't probe at all. I never once asked for detainls, not even a partner count. However, due to circumstances, I found out way more than I ever wanted to know. Does anyone think that I actually WANTED to know that she carried on an affair with a 40 year old married guy when she was 15? Or that she slept with her step son as revenge against her ex husband? The same ex husband she kept sleeping with until a few months before we started dating? That she had multiple threesomes with said ex, and female friends of hers? Hell, just the other day, she was on the phone with a pregnant friend who is about ready to pop, and I got to hear that the only thing that worked to induce labor was twice a day sex for a week, and only one position worked because she was as big as a house.

I had no desire to know any of that, and she had no desire to tell me, but other people, people we were going to be around knew,or were participants and she correctly thought it would be better for her to tell me than to let me hear it from someone else.

I would have been happy remaining blissfully unaware, but once those flood gates were opened, and her past became my present, I needed time to process it.


----------



## happy as a clam

Blossom Leigh said:


> Hmmm... *wonder if OP is coming back.
> *
> This story is very veiled, vague and has holes in it.


Just thinking the same thing... :scratchhead:


----------



## happy as a clam

samyeagar said:


> Yes, people have pasts, and most people know and gracefully accept that going into a relationship. The problems start when the past doesn't stay in the past. What people need to remember is that* the things they have done with other people are not erased simply by saying it was in the past,* and those things often have a way of becoming the present in a way, and at a time they don't choose.


:iagree: Well said, sam.


----------



## I Don't Know

Well here's kinda how it goes for me. Make of it what you will.

I *hate* that my wife ever had sex with anyone, but the A-holes *really* bother me.

Why would she give herself to someone who doesn't respect her? She deserved so much better.

I am not like most of the guys she has been with, so why the hell does she want me?

Is she denying her true attractions (bad boys) and settling for a guy that will treat her good?

How will I ever know if she is?

If the guy was an A-hole but you slept with him anyway....you must have been VERY attracted to him (more than to me)....he must have been extremely good in bed (better than me)....you must have had very strong feelings for him (more so than for me)....his dong must have been enormous....

You get the idea. 

It doesn't matter what I've has done in the past. I could have been the biggest man-wh0re on the planet. I wanted her to be BETTER than me. I wanted her to be a better person than I was.

SA hit a very key point. My wife has said to me, "why does it bother you so much, _____ didn't care." Of course he didn't care! He wanted to get laid! Why would he care? I didn't care about the pasts of 90% of the women I've slept with either.

BTW OP *do not tell your BF, so and so didn't care about this stuff.* In his mind you will be casting a direct comparison between him and some other guy, and the other guy wins. He probably feels small and weak that this bothers him. And doing so will be taken as you saying "he was a bigger man than you, Chris."

Be understanding and supportive, but don't let him get in a habit of doing this either.


----------



## I Don't Know

Now that this door has been opened, this may be something he struggles with for the rest of his life. Are you ready for that?

Last night after sex my wife said "I don't get lesbians, honestly d!ck is the sh!t." Most guys would have taken that as a compliment, but it just reminded me that there were other guys before me. (Which is understood but it brings it forward as a conscious thought, and that sucks)


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Now that this door has been opened, this may be something he struggles with for the rest of his life. Are you ready for that?
> 
> Last night after sex my wife said "I don't get lesbians, honestly d!ck is the sh!t." Most guys would have taken that as a compliment, but it just reminded me that there were other guys before me. (Which is understood but it brings it forward as a conscious thought, and that sucks)


Yeah, but something can be said for pvssy too...I have a feeling though that your wife would not have been bothered by you saying that in the same way.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> Yeah, but something can be said for pvssy too...I have a feeling though that your wife would not have been bothered by you saying that in the same way.


No, she wouldn't have. I know it's all me and getting insecure. Just showing how a very small thing can get me going if I let it. Could be the same for the OP's BF too.

And I agree, pvssy is absolutely the sh1t!


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> No, she wouldn't have. I know it's all me and *getting insecure*. Just showing how a very small thing can get me going if I let it. Could be the same for the OP's BF too.
> 
> And I agree, pvssy is absolutely the sh1t!


Don't let yourself be pegged as insecure. Just because it is something that leaves an uncomfortable feeling does not mean you are insecure.

It is sort of like when people throw out the word "controlling" It's just a way to shame someone into compliance.

The other day when my wife was talking to her sister about their brother being transferred from one prison to another, she recounted a story from when her ex husband was at the same prison. She left the car unlocked in the parking lot, when they were required to be locked, and she had just enough time to get patted down, and see him long enough for a few kisses before they made her leave.

Overhearing that just left a bad taste in my mouth, but had nothing to do with being insecure. I mean really, was the kissing a pertinent detail?


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Don't let yourself be pegged as insecure. Just because it is something that leaves an uncomfortable feeling does not mean you are insecure.
> 
> It is sort of like when people throw out the word "controlling" It's just a way to shame someone into compliance.
> 
> The other day when my wife was talking to her sister about their brother being transferred from one prison to another, she recounted a story from when her ex husband was at the same prison. She left the car unlocked in the parking lot, when they were required to be locked, and she had just enough time to get patted down, and see him long enough for a few kisses before they made her leave.
> 
> Overhearing that just left a bad taste in my mouth, but had nothing to do with being insecure. I mean really, was the kissing a pertinent detail?


Sam...I'm sorry your wife keeps doing this crap to you.


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> I really wanted to stay out of this thread, but like all the other ones dealing with this issue, some people really don't know what they are talking about.
> 
> Yes, people have pasts, and most people know and gracefully accept that going into a relationship. The problems start when the past doesn't stay in the past. What people need to remember is that the things they have done with other people are not erased simply by saying it was in the past, and those things often have a way of becoming the present in a way, and at a time they don't choose.
> 
> My wife has a rather colorful past, and I didn't probe at all. I never once asked for detainls, not even a partner count. However, due to circumstances, I found out way more than I ever wanted to know. Does anyone think that I actually WANTED to know that she carried on an affair with a 40 year old married guy when she was 15? Or that she slept with her step son as revenge against her ex husband? The same ex husband she kept sleeping with until a few months before we started dating? That she had multiple threesomes with said ex, and female friends of hers? Hell, just the other day, she was on the phone with a pregnant friend who is about ready to pop, and I got to hear that the only thing that worked to induce labor was twice a day sex for a week, and only one position worked because she was as big as a house.
> 
> I had no desire to know any of that, and she had no desire to tell me, but other people, people we were going to be around knew,or were participants and she correctly thought it would be better for her to tell me than to let me hear it from someone else.
> 
> I would have been happy remaining blissfully unaware, but once those flood gates were opened, and her past became my present, I needed time to process it.


I kind of see this point if there is ever a chance that your sexual past could be communicated to your SO by someone else. I remember Treyvion saying it's intolerable to think that your gf has had sex with half your friends and a quarter of your enemies - or something to that effect. But at least because of geography and time, there is very little chance that a future SO of mine would find out from someone other than me what my sexual history contains. And because of that I think it's safe to keep the past in the past.


----------



## I Don't Know

Some of it IS insecurity. Some of it is possessiveness. Some of it is wanting to be her one and only in all things. Some of it is wishing she had valued herself more, because it breaks my heart that she didn't.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> I kind of see this point if there is ever *a chance that your sexual past could be communicated to your SO by someone else*. I remember Treyvion saying it's intolerable to think that your gf has had sex with half your friends and a quarter of your enemies - or something to that effect. But at least because of geography and time, there is very little chance that a future SO of mine would find out from someone other than me what my sexual history contains. And because of that I think it's safe to keep the past in the past.


And this is always one of my biggest points...the broader the past, the more likely this is to happen, and even if you think there is no way something could possibly come out, it still just might.


----------



## happy as a clam

This may be a little off-topic, but I can state clearly that my SO *never *wants to hear about my past... my ex-husband, my past lovers, anyone who ever LOOKED at me with desire.

Even if a "past" comes up in a very benign way, he is visibly uncomfortable, and I change the subject quickly.

He is not insecure at all; I think he is like most males (and probably a lot of females too)... he doesn't want the info, doesn't want the "mind movies", doesn't care because it was all before him.

I have nothing to hide, but he prefers not to know. I am thankful I don't have a past to "catch up" with me. 

We'll keep it that way... 

OP, sorry for what you're going through. I hope you'll come back to read all the great advice you have gotten.

(P.S. Now that I think about it, I don't want to know about any of his past conquests either)


----------



## TammyAB

I am feeling just so incredibly lousy today. Crid didn't come over last night but he did call and we had a pretty long talk.

Not really sure how it went but I'm pretty sure I have him right. We've been together a long while (a long while for me at least!) and I know him pretty well. Anyway, I admitted that yeah I've been with that other guy but that it was a mistake and I didn't like him at all. But I didn't go into details. 

Chris is not like some of you are saying. He is not the bad guy by any stretch. I love him and I really respect him and he has absolutely been great to me since the day we met

Somebody else asked why he would believe the jerk and not me. Well, he asked me if it was true. He didn't go all accusatory or insulting like you said. He heard from somebody who got it from somebody. So the a-hole really has run off his mouth. And that makes Chris feel ****ty.

Somebody else basically said too bad for him that we haven't done such and such. When we talked he wanted to know why with the other guy but not him. I basically told him that it wasn't like it hurt physically but that it didn't do anything for me and after I had broken up with that guy I realized that it was demeaning and didn't want to do it again. That probably wasn't the right thing to say or I guess what he wanted to hear cause he didn't get it. He's all about I did it with an a-hole but won't with him. Fact that the a-hole is telling the world only makes it worse.


----------



## TammyAB

SimplyAmorous said:


> It's obvious this has much to do with the SORT OF IDIOT Jerk this guy is...her BF called him a A-hole..I am sure he was quite deserving of this label... this is WHY he is SO upset, not that she is not some virgin....
> 
> 1st of all, if the A-hole was a GOOD guy, a worthy male... he wouldn't be throwing around his sexual exploits, now would he ? No, he'd have more respect for the woman he once slept with.. .
> 
> So what happened here was ....of course the New man is upset [email protected]#$... ..because it speaks something to her value system at one time..choosing to sleep with someone LIKE THAT...... so I can see easily how some men (again the good guys) would care about this sort of thing..
> 
> Not insecurity at all.. just calling into question the type of choices his GF made in the past.. in regards to love.. and sex... why give any jerks the time of day?
> 
> Does that mean she is the same person today...NO it doesn't..... people can change, realize Bragging bad boys are not worth her time, and surely not her body... but this IS deserving of a full conversation to where she has been, and how she has grown from it.... so he can see ...and feel.. she is a different woman today.. valuing more than "just sex"...or a "good time"...



I hope I can get the quotes thing right here.

Anyway, it's really embarrassing but you are so right. It's not like Chris wanted a virgin or something. He knows I'm not and was fine with it. It gets to him that like you said, I was with a guy who's an a-hole. He actually asked me why would I have sex with somebody I didn't like and I didn't really have an answer. What can I say? So yeah again about your comment about value systems.


----------



## happy as a clam

intheory said:


> Urban Dictionary: cum dumpster
> 
> Live and learn. *NSFW*??? ^^^^


Huh?

I don't understand any of this. What is meant by street slang (Urban Dictionary) of *"c*m dumpster"*?

Also, what is *NSFW?*

Please clarify.


----------



## GA HEART

So wait.....you haven't has sex with your BF? Or just haven't done "certain things" with him? If that's the case, I can see why he is a little upset!

Although I do think it's the difference between some males and females. Just because I "hooked up" with someone doesn't mean I de-value myself. I just wanted to get laid and had some trustworthy-enough buddies willing to help me out. Both of us knew what we were getting into, it was mutual, I fully understood any and all consequenses. Even if the guy was a "douche" (which one or two might have been,) I didn't WANT a relationship with them, and I used them to fill a need. So how does that relate to me having low standards? In my book, it doesn't. In others' books it might, but I am me, not them.


----------



## samyeagar

happy as a clam said:


> Huh?
> 
> I don't understand any of this. What is meant by street slang (Urban Dictionary) of *"c*m dumpster"*?
> 
> Also, what is *NSFW?*
> 
> Please clarify.


NSFW means Not Safe For Work...


----------



## GA HEART

And thanks for the NSFW (Not Safe For Work) warning! I am definitely at work! LOL!


----------



## TammyAB

SimplyAmorous said:


> You found yourself a loving , caring sensitive natured GOOD GUY..who has blown you away -redeeming your belief in love again.... I married one of these types...and that beautiful sensitivity will reach into many areas of LIFE and love that will BLESS YOU down the road.. to push this back on him for being upset -to even think of letting him go (which I know you would never want to do) ... it's not the right decision for your life.. You have more faith in him over that... don't you ??
> 
> Where is poster Samyeagar when you need him!? -he can relate to this situation.. he married her.. and they are very happy!
> 
> You've been with him for a year now... the emotional connection has taken hold, you have shared memories , I bet you are compatible in many ways.....you & he *can *get past this..
> 
> I say you are blessed to find him.. and do all you can to hold on tight.. you & he can overcome this..




Thanks. You know, I think you really understand all this mess.

I KNOW that Chris is a great man. (I may have been naive in the past but I'm not that dumb!!). You nailed it when you said he's a caring sensitive natured good man - because he is!! And absolutely for sure we are compatible in a ton a ways. I'm NOT going to let him go. I'm just scared that HE might let Me GO. 

When we were talking last night he really tried to talk about and understand why I'd get together with a guy I didn't even like and do stuff with him that Chris and I haven't done as a couple together. He's really hurt.


----------



## I Don't Know

This is incredibly touchy for a lot of guys. You let a guy who is an a-hole, someone you don't like, do something and now don't want to do that thing with a guy you love. Chris is wondering why you do something you don't like with a guy you don't care about. This makes ZERO sense to guys. 

To guys you do extra for the ones you care about, not the ones you don't. He is wondering if that guy really meant more to you than you admit now. He is wondering why you were so eager to please someone you didn't like.


----------



## TammyAB

Thor said:


> We go around and around on TAM with this general topic of people's pasts with great regularity. I don't think it is valid to apply sweeping judgments to people's pasts. I also dislike that the OP has devalued her past.
> 
> 
> 
> Tammy, you made choices at the time based on your values, beliefs, and interpretations of situations. Hopefully you felt good at the time about your choices, and indeed you say you thought you were having a good time. Were you having a good time?
> 
> If so there is nothing to apologize for. But, you might now have been exposed to more life experience and have different beliefs and interpretations. The bad boy who seemed like fun back then might now look like a class-A jerk. You might have different perspectives on relationships now due to more experience with higher quality men.
> 
> Having said all that, Chris may have different values which conflict with your history. It may not be resolvable for him. Which is simply an incompatibility between you. It wouldn't be right for either one of you to stay long term with someone incompatible.



I thought I was having a good time but when it was all over I realized that it wasn't fun. The jerk really was in it just for himself and was demeaning.

ALos your comment about "the bad boy who seemed like fun back then might now look like a class-A jerk." This is 100% true. But it makes me look really really not so good. Like, Chris said, how could I be with a guy like that, you know? I don't even have an answer.


----------



## samyeagar

TammyAB said:


> Thanks. You know, I think you really understand all this mess.
> 
> I KNOW that Chris is a great man. (I may have been naive in the past but I'm not that dumb!!). You nailed it when you said he's a caring sensitive natured good man - because he is!! And absolutely for sure we are compatible in a ton a ways. I'm NOT going to let him go. I'm just scared that HE might let Me GO.
> 
> When we were talking last night he really tried to talk about and understand why I'd get together with a guy I didn't even like and do stuff with him that Chris and I haven't done as a couple together. He's really hurt.


I am guessing that Chris has a very strong connection between sex and emotion. That he is not prone to emotionally disconnected sex. If that is true, I would suggest not going down the "but it was only sex" route because that will come off as devaluing something that is important to him.

I never ran into the "you did it for him but not for me" with my wife because that is something that I personally didn't care about, and also the fact that she has not taken anything off the table.

I imaging it is the mind movies that are getting to him, and it has nothing to do with judging you, thinking you are a bad person, it's just that you have done things that are completely foreign to him and his mindset, that he doesn't even have a remote point of comparison to build empathy on.


----------



## TammyAB

alexm said:


> Neither of you did anything wrong. The fact is, it's the other guy who's feeding Chris' insecurities, and you can't help that. Neither can he.
> 
> 
> If anything, he's peeved that you (allegedly) had poor taste in men. This other guy's behavior "proves" it. It, unfortunately, makes him wonder if you were... easy, and that's not something any of us want to think about our partners, especially after we fall in love with them.


I know the a-hole is an a-hole. He's been blabbing to whoever will listen I guess. I don't know what can be done with him. So yes he's been feeding into how Chris feels.

Yes, I know.... Poor taste in men ouch but true. How can we as a couple get past that becasue that is a huge part of what Chris is feeling now


----------



## happy as a clam

TammyAB said:


> When we were talking last night he really tried to talk about and understand *why I'd get together with a guy I didn't even like and do stuff with him that Chris and I haven't done* as a couple together. He's really hurt.


And this precisely my point from my above post.

My SO *would not be able to deal* with anyone he deemed "less than worthy" of me.

And I can tell you, any man I ever made love with would be "less than worthy" in HIS eyes...

Sorry your "truth" got revealed the way it did. I feel for you. My SO would have a hard time knowing ANY details of anything I ever did before him.

Maybe it's a male thing, or an ego thing. Or a human thing. :scratchhead:


----------



## I Don't Know

TammyAB said:


> Thanks. You know, I think you really understand all this mess.
> 
> I KNOW that Chris is a great man. (I may have been naive in the past but I'm not that dumb!!). You nailed it when you said he's a caring sensitive natured good man - because he is!! And absolutely for sure we are compatible in a ton a ways. I'm NOT going to let him go. I'm just scared that HE might let Me GO.
> 
> When we were talking last night he really tried to talk about and understand *why I'd get together with a guy I didn't even like and do stuff with him that Chris and I haven't done as a couple together*. He's really hurt.


I'm going to guess that Chris has been the nice guy that was passed over for the jerks...a lot. It sucks to see girls do that over and over. He was shy and didn't make moves on women and was friend zoned over and over. He was never the guy that girls actively went after. He thought you were diferent from those girls 

Pure speculation and projection there.


----------



## samyeagar

TammyAB said:


> I know the a-hole is an a-hole. He's been blabbing to whoever will listen I guess. I don't know what can be done with him. So yes he's been feeding into how Chris feels.
> 
> Yes, I know.... Poor taste in men ouch but true. *How can we as a couple get past that* becasue that is a huge part of what Chris is feeling now


Time. 

You can't control what other people say or do. This obviously caught you completely off guard so I would take a long hard look at your past and figure out what other things like this are going to come up because if your past becoming his present becomes a habit,m you're going to lose him. You really need to think about what you need to do as far as preemptive damage control.


----------



## LongWalk

Do you think you are the most exciting woman that he has slept with?


----------



## TammyAB

LongWalk said:


> Do you think you are the most exciting woman that he has slept with?


Not sure what that has to do with it but anyway, I don't know. Our bedroom life is great. It's more traditional than wild and crazy but I am so over wild and crazy that I am really happy with the way things have been with Chris.

Having said all that though, I think I am going to spice things up. I've been thinking about it and I don't want Chris to fester that the jerk got something that he didn't. Sooo I'm thinking maybe tonight we'll go for the crazy he's wanted. Not completley sure this is a good idea but I want Chris to get past all this. Make sense?


----------



## samyeagar

TammyAB said:


> Not sure what that has to do with it but anyway, I don't know. Our bedroom life is great. It's more traditional than wild and crazy but I am so over wild and crazy that I am really happy with the way things have been with Chris.
> 
> Having said all that though, I think I am going to spice things up. I've been thinking about it and I don't want Chris to fester that the jerk got something that he didn't. Sooo I'm thinking maybe tonight we'll go for the crazy he's wanted. Not completley sure this is a good idea but I want Chris to get past all this. Make sense?


This could be something that could backfire...big time.


----------



## happy as a clam

samyeagar said:


> This could be something that could backfire...big time.


:iagree:

If he REMOTELY thinks that you are doing this BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING YOU DID TO SOMEONE ELSE, or because it's PAYBACK FOR YOUR PAST COMING UP to haunt him, this could backfire in a MAJOR way.

Be true to yourself, and to Chris.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> This could be something that could backfire...big time.


Yep, if he's been asking and you've been denying I can't see this helping. It "should" have been something you wanted to do with him BEFORE he found out.

And really, all the other guys get wild and crazy and he gets traditional?! UGH!! "I'm over wild and crazy" or "I don't want wild and crazy" are not going to be helpful either. He wanted to be THE GUY you WANTED to get wild and crazy with. He's not. And now he knows it.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Yep, if he's been asking and you've been denying I can't see this helping. It "should" have been something you wanted to do with him BEFORE he found out.
> 
> And really, all the other guys get wild and crazy and he gets traditional?! UGH!! "I'm over wild and crazy" or "I don't want wild and crazy" are not going to be helpful either. He wanted to be THE GUY you WANTED to get wild and crazy with. He's not. *And now he knows it*.


I've been through all of what is being described here, and getting wild and crazy now before all this is worked out could come off as very patronizing and disingenuous.


----------



## TammyAB

I Don't Know said:


> Yep, if he's been asking and you've been denying I can't see this helping. It "should" have been something you wanted to do with him BEFORE he found out.
> 
> And really, all the other guys get wild and crazy and he gets traditional?! UGH!! "I'm over wild and crazy" or "I don't want wild and crazy" are not going to be helpful either. He wanted to be THE GUY you WANTED to get wild and crazy with. He's not. And now he knows it.


I know I know but better late than never right?

I want him to "the guy I get wild with." I guess he maybe thinks he hasn't been up to now, but I really want that to change.

And like seriously, I could kick myself. I did it with a-hole. I should be doing it with Chris, right?


----------



## Mostlycontent

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Key words - Discussed. Talked.
> 
> Cosy. MUTUAL. Would been perfect with some hot mugs of Cocoa.
> 
> I'm not being facetious. Compare your fine example to the OP. Do you really think he went about 'asking' her in a kindly way?
> 
> Insisting she answer 'Did you sleep with that guy' and the rest sounds pretty intimidating and unecessary to me.
> 
> If she says 'yes', so what? It's an ex, lots of women have them. Am I naive to wonder why he's so (apparently) insistant about it?
> 
> By your own reasoning, OP says nothing about marriage. So, if they're casual, no need to ask her.
> 
> If they're 'planning a future' - just like you did. Mutual decision, mutual discussion.
> 
> The scenario in the OP reads 'bereft of mutual' to me and very akin to intimidation. If you see 'reasonable', fair enough. I guess the OP isn't certain either which is why she asked for opinions - plural.
> 
> Well, she has mine "he's an insecure idiot" and others suggesting she's a lying tramp. Who knows where the truth lies?
> 
> She's got what she came for. There'd be no reason for the forums if the OPs got 20 identical opinions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I don't disagree with your premise except that she "glossed over" and likely lied or completely omitted things that they had apparently discussed previously. 

I would openly discuss such things with my wife but if I felt she had lied, omitted or said things with intent to deceive then my tone would be much, much different. I would likely be angry and insistent for the truth as well.

So while your position on open discussion is correct, the fact that she had been dishonest about it is likely the reason for his behavior. Had she been truthful from the start, this probably would not be an issue now.

I actually had the same discussion with my W when we first started sharing our pasts with one another many years ago. The past is what it is but if you lie to me, then it's over because I view that as a major deal breaker. To try and fool or mislead a potential life partner into believing that you are something that you are not is a very serious offense in my view.

Chris perhaps should be upset about this, particularly if they have had discussions about marriage in the near future.


----------



## AliceA

TammyAB said:


> Somebody else basically said too bad for him that we haven't done such and such. When we talked he wanted to know why with the other guy but not him. I basically told him that it wasn't like it hurt physically but that it didn't do anything for me and after I had broken up with that guy I realized that it was demeaning and didn't want to do it again. That probably wasn't the right thing to say or I guess what he wanted to hear cause he didn't get it. He's all about I did it with an a-hole but won't with him. Fact that the a-hole is telling the world only makes it worse.


Sometimes we do things we don't want to do to try and please other people. You liked a guy, you tried to please him, then you stopped liking him. Simple. I think Chris is feeling bad that you would do it to please the other guy, who on a side note doesn't even respect or appreciate you so that makes it worse, but you won't do it to please him.

Part of me arks up at a man trying to insist his partner do something she doesn't want to do, simply for his pleasure, but the reality is, even my DH has done it, and he loves me to bits and knows how fierce I can get, yet bravely asks for what he wants. I have to respect that.

Even take the other man out of it and what he's hearing is that you won't do something that will give him pleasure unless you get something out of it too. It doesn't always work that way in a partnership. Not everything will be mutually enjoyable or should have to be, as long as the scales are balanced and he *returns the favour*.


----------



## ButtPunch

I would hold off on the spice. You change things up and he'll think about OM. You don't want him to think about OM when love making.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

samyeagar said:


> This could be something that could backfire...big time.


seconded.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## School bus

Nailed it. This is soooooo important to me as a man that I wanted to quote it to make sure the women who love us understand. 



I Don't Know said:


> samyeagar said:
> 
> 
> 
> This could be something that could backfire...big time.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, if he's been asking and you've been denying I can't see this helping. It "should" have been something you wanted to do with him BEFORE he found out.
> 
> And really, all the other guys get wild and crazy and he gets traditional?! UGH!! "I'm over wild and crazy" or "I don't want wild and crazy" are not going to be helpful either. He wanted to be THE GUY you WANTED to get wild and crazy with. He's not. And now he knows it.
Click to expand...


----------



## KingofIstatements

Tammy, I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. As someone who's lived a similar situation to Chris (only a few years down the road now w/ Marriage&Kids&House), I wanted to offer you my perspective.
Many of us 'handsome good guys' who were 'raised right', who are shy and introverted and not very socialized, have been told since birth by women young and old that we will eventually find the right woman, and make a great relationship partner/husband. And so we set off digging the tunnel towards that goal, being that person...
And then the day comes that we discover the woman we love actually 'loved' the a**hole more than us, BECAUSE of his a**holish behaviour. Hurts worse when we know him or have to deal with him, and his presence is rubbed in our nose. And it seems the party daze are over because she decided it was time to settle down with a good draft horse. The blinders suddenly don't fit, the bit starts to make us choke. 
As everyone else is saying, offering 'such and such' to Chris at this point would be beyond offensive to him. From his perspective, he knows where he stands. Which is why, as much as you don't want to hear it, I'd urge you for your own good to listen to the posters who are saying that it's better you go your separate ways now. The genie will never fit back into the bottle. 
Yes, I'm married and have two beautiful children. But there's nothing in the world that will ever convince me that I'm somehow 'special' to my wife. And you don't need your man to be troubled by thoughts like that, doubting his sense of commitment at every turn when you find yourself confined to bed-rest in your second trimester...


----------



## Dad&Hubby

samyeagar said:


> This could be something that could backfire...big time.


Spicing it up is great...just not right now....and DEFINITELY not the same thing that the "other guy got".

Spice it up after talking about it. Finding something special to both of you. You could actually segue from this issue into something spicy. Talk openly about how you've done things in your past, that NOW that you've grown and come to terms with yourself you wouldn't do again. 

You don't want to do something with Chris that you did with someone else that you didn't enjoy. Tell Chris you'd rather find NEW things that the two of you could really get into.


----------



## I Don't Know

TammyAB said:


> I know I know but better late than never right?
> 
> I want him to "the guy I get wild with." I guess he maybe thinks he hasn't been up to now, but I really want that to change.
> 
> And like seriously, I could kick myself. I did it with a-hole. I should be doing it with Chris, right?


Better late than never, but not right now. Right now it's too fresh and it will be seen as patronizing. 

Second part, yes and no. If it's something you really don't want to do, don't do it. If, however, it's something that you are ok with doing then, yeah occasionally you could do it. Remember it will be a completely different experience with the guy who loves you. It shouldn't be demeaning. It was demeaning before because you realized A-hole was just out for him. Chris cares about YOU.

BUT wait!!!! Right now, he is raw. If he does it now, it may not be done in love. Make sure your relationship is solid and in a good place before you go forward with it. 

Regarding picking A-holes, my wife says she had given up on finding a good guy. She was taking as good as she thought was out there. Maybe this applies to you too, maybe not. But it does help me when I'm feeling down.


----------



## samyeagar

KingofIstatements said:


> Tammy, I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. As someone who's lived a similar situation to Chris (only a few years down the road now w/ Marriage&Kids&House), I wanted to offer you my perspective.
> Many of us 'handsome good guys' who were 'raised right', who are shy and introverted and not very socialized, have been told since birth by women young and old that we will eventually find the right woman, and make a great relationship partner/husband. And so we set off digging the tunnel towards that goal, being that person...
> And then the day comes that we discover the woman we love actually 'loved' the a**hole more than us, BECAUSE of his a**holish behaviour. Hurts worse when we know him or have to deal with him, and his presence is rubbed in our nose. And it seems the party daze are over because she decided it was time to settle down with a good draft horse. The blinders suddenly don't fit, the bit starts to make us choke.
> As everyone else is saying, offering 'such and such' to Chris at this point would be beyond offensive to him. From his perspective, he knows where he stands. Which is why, as much as you don't want to hear it, I'd urge you for your own good to listen to the posters who are saying that it's better you go your separate ways now. The genie will never fit back into the bottle.
> Yes, I'm married and have two beautiful children. But there's nothing in the world that will ever convince me that I'm somehow 'special' to my wife. And you don't need your man to be troubled by thoughts like that, doubting his sense of commitment at every turn when you find yourself confined to bed-rest in your second trimester...


As I have laid out in my posts, I have lived through this as well, and like you, I married her. However, I have absolutely no doubts that my wife loves me, and is more in love with me than she ever dreamed she could be. It has been tough to deal with at times, but ultimately she has done everything right. The unfortunate part is that I am not sure that I will ever be able to fully accept the sexual part of our relationship as a show of love from her.


----------



## samyeagar

Now would also be a good time to be completely honest with him about things. Are there other things in your past that could come up at inopportune times that would be less than flattering to you? As you hopefully have learned, it is never a safe assumption that your past will stay your past.

If you have a history of dating ass holes, they tend to behave like well...ass holes, and have no problems spilling things at times and in ways you would rather they wouldn't...then again, one would expect that right because they are, well, ass holes.


----------



## AliceA

samyeagar said:


> Now would also be a good time to be completely honest with him about things. Are there other things in your past that could come up at inopportune times that would be less than flattering to you? As you hopefully have learned, it is never a safe assumption that your past will stay your past.
> 
> If you have a history of dating ass holes, they tend to behave like well...ass holes, and have no problems spilling things at times and in ways you would rather they wouldn't...then again, one would expect that right because they are, well, ass holes.


I'd be careful about going into detail. People keep saying the OP should tell him about her past. Let's be specific. Do people think she should be giving him a blow by blow account of what they did during sex? What exactly does she need to tell him? Does she need to give him the names and addresses of all her past lovers? Does she need to tell him how many times she had sex with each one?

I've seen a few posts where the male partners learned some details of what their current partners did in the past, and it was never a good outcome. It was unhealthy to say the least. I've even seen assertions of, "I didn't like finding out that way", but in reality, it was because they found out at all. They'd still be PO'd if there partner had told them. It was the original act that annoyed them most of all.

The problem is that what happens in bed stays in bed and people break this sacred oath, such as the other man in this case.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

Mostlycontent said:


> I don't disagree with your premise except that she "glossed over" and likely lied or completely omitted things that they had apparently discussed previously.
> 
> I would openly discuss such things with my wife but if I felt she had lied, omitted or said things with intent to deceive then my tone would be much, much different. I would likely be angry and insistent for the truth as well.
> 
> So while your position on open discussion is correct, the fact that she had been dishonest about it is likely the reason for his behavior. Had she been truthful from the start, this probably would not be an issue now.
> 
> I actually had the same discussion with my W when we first started sharing our pasts with one another many years ago. The past is what it is but if you lie to me, then it's over because I view that as a major deal breaker. To try and fool or mislead a potential life partner into believing that you are something that you are not is a very serious offense in my view.
> 
> Chris perhaps should be upset about this, particularly if they have had discussions about marriage in the near future.


Fair comment.

I will even add to your serious offense. Not only does the liar deceive the lied to, they also live with the secret knowledge that their victim doesn't love them but the person they're pretending to be.

Moving on,,,, 

Samyeagar mentioned in an earlier post (can't quote it cuzza my browser) something akin to how he doesn't ask his wife about her past,, then gets to hear it when he doesn't necessarily want to.

That mirrors my experience. I've never asked my partners about their pasts. As time passes and they come to realise I don't react badly to bad news, they release any angst they harbour at their own speed. People do when they're relaxed and trust you. I think they're more likely to clam up or hold stuff back if you bug them for it. Still, each to their own.

I see the OP refutes 'intimidation'. Now we have "You did it for him!" sulking. Hardly the worst we see here, but that IS manipulation and it's payed off for him. Hence, why I seconded the post above.

I hope they can be happy,, really I do, but I think the ex's flappin' gob has revealed an insecurity in Mr Chris.

Time will tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nuclearnightmare

OP:
looks like I'm in a very small minority here vis-a-vis "spicing it up"
your heart is in the right place in wanting to do that. why not just say to him something like "look you really have the wrong impression if you think I am or was more attracted to (a**ole guy) that I am to you. I didn't think (sex act xyz) was so great with him but maybe with you I'll like it. let's at least try..

.....do consider how badly outvoted I am on that though.

here's one I'm sure of. if I was Chris not only would I not accept the bragging guy as a friend, I wouldn't care to keep _any friend of his _as my friend either. Sometimes to move on in life in a good way it's best to get a whole new set of friends, and leave the old bunch behind with no regrets. i.e. maybe Chris should stay away from that entire group of guys - then he wouldn't hear anything else connected to you. prob solved??


----------



## I Don't Know

KingofIstatements said:


> *Tammy, I'm so sorry you find yourself in this situation. As someone who's lived a similar situation to Chris (only a few years down the road now w/ Marriage&Kids&House), I wanted to offer you my perspective.
> Many of us 'handsome good guys' who were 'raised right', who are shy and introverted and not very socialized, have been told since birth by women young and old that we will eventually find the right woman, and make a great relationship partner/husband. And so we set off digging the tunnel towards that goal, being that person...
> And then the day comes that we discover the woman we love actually 'loved' the a**hole more than us, BECAUSE of his a**holish behaviour.* Hurts worse when we know him or have to deal with him, and his presence is rubbed in our nose. And it seems the party daze are over because she decided it was time to settle down with a good draft horse. The blinders suddenly don't fit, the bit starts to make us choke.
> As everyone else is saying, offering 'such and such' to Chris at this point would be beyond offensive to him. From his perspective, he knows where he stands. Which is why, as much as you don't want to hear it, I'd urge you for your own good to listen to the posters who are saying that it's better you go your separate ways now. The genie will never fit back into the bottle.
> Yes, I'm married and have two beautiful children. But there's nothing in the world that will ever convince me that I'm somehow 'special' to my wife. And you don't need your man to be troubled by thoughts like that, doubting his sense of commitment at every turn when you find yourself confined to bed-rest in your second trimester...


The bolded part is spot on! I've never been able to explain it in such a clear way.


----------



## samyeagar

breeze said:


> I'd be careful about going into detail. People keep saying the OP should tell him about her past. Let's be specific. Do people think she should be giving him a blow by blow account of what they did during sex? What exactly does she need to tell him? Does she need to give him the names and addresses of all her past lovers? Does she need to tell him how many times she had sex with each one?
> 
> I've seen a few posts where the male partners learned some details of what their current partners did in the past, and it was never a good outcome. It was unhealthy to say the least. I've even seen assertions of, "I didn't like finding out that way", but in reality, it was because they found out at all. They'd still be PO'd if there partner had told them. It was the original act that annoyed them most of all.
> 
> The problem is that what happens in bed stays in bed and people break this sacred oath, such as the other man in this case.


Of course there shouldn't be a blow by blow, detail by detail account. No need for that. As I and others have stated, there is an assumption of physical relations in previous relationships that nothing more needs to be said.

What I am talking about is exactly what has happened here. Chris expressed an interest in things that she had done in the past, she knew she did in the past, and she glossed them over. My guess is that she left Chris with the impression that she had never done them. That in and of itself isn't really the huge deal, it's that he found out in a social situation from someone else who she herself described as an ass hole.

An example from my own relationship with my wife...she had threesomes with her cheating husband in an attempt to control his cheating. We were going out on a boat for the afternoon with a friend of my wife's, and there was going to be drinking involved. This friend was one of the ones they had the threesome with, and my wife correctly thought it would be good to give me a heads up as lips get loose when the alcohol flows, and it was way better for her to tell me than for me to just have it sprung on me there.


----------



## I Don't Know

Maybe it does reveal an insecurity in him. Does that matter so much? She thinks he is a great guy. He's good to her. Does she throw that away because he has insecurity? 

This is a chance for this young man to grow. To challenge his insecurities. To look inside himself.

Maybe it's too much for the OP to handle. After all, he might never completely get over it. And that's something she really has to think about. If this issue comes up every month or so, is he still worth it?


----------



## bandit.45

I Don't Know said:


> Yep, if he's been asking and you've been denying I can't see this helping. It "should" have been something you wanted to do with him BEFORE he found out.
> 
> And really, all the other guys get wild and crazy and he gets traditional?! UGH!! "I'm over wild and crazy" or "I don't want wild and crazy" are not going to be helpful either. He wanted to be THE GUY you WANTED to get wild and crazy with. He's not. And now he knows it.


:iagree:

And this why Tammy I think your relationship is doomed. Most guys cannot get past this, and since you aren't married, it's that much easier for Chris to walk away from this painful situation.

Every time you and him have sex he's going you think you are just doing it to appease him. Up until now you gave given him bread and butter sex. The other guy got steak and lobster. Pity sex we call it. To him it's scraps from your table.


----------



## bandit.45

Sigh....

Oh to be young and ignorant again...I miss those days.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

TammyAB said:


> Not sure what that has to do with it but anyway, I don't know. Our bedroom life is great. *It's more traditional than wild and crazy but I am so over wild and crazy that I am really happy with the way things have been with Chris.*
> 
> Having said all that though, I think I am going to spice things up. I've been thinking about it and I don't want Chris to fester that the jerk got something that he didn't. Sooo I'm thinking maybe tonight we'll go for the crazy he's wanted. Not completley sure this is a good idea but I want Chris to get past all this. Make sense?


That's the kiss of death right there. Honestly, how can you ever be over "wild and crazy" with the person you truly love? Maybe a guess on my part, but perhaps you really don't love him as much as you think you did? Maybe he's nice and comfortable - so you feel safe. Maybe that's all there is to it. 

So...what's this special thing that you gave to the jerk but refused Chris? Curious because depending on what it is, it may NOT be something that should ever be a part of a loving relationship. Are we talking swallowing, anal or threesome? One of those can ultimately destroy a relationship, one may hurt your health if done regularly/incorrectly but OK with some care and precaution and one should be largely benign.


----------



## bandit.45

samyeagar said:


> An example from my own relationship with my wife...she had threesomes with her cheating husband in an attempt to control his cheating. We were going out on a boat for the afternoon with a friend of my wife's, and there was going to be drinking involved. This friend was one of the ones they had the threesome with, and my wife correctly thought it would be good to give me a heads up as lips get loose when the alcohol flows, and it was way better for her to tell me than for me to just have it sprung on me there.


Takes a special kind of man to put up with a wife like that.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

bandit.45 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And this why Tammy I think your relationship is doomed. Most guys cannot get past this, and since you aren't married, it's that much easier for Chris to walk away from this painful situation.
> 
> Every time you and him have sex he's going you think you are just doing it to appease him. Up until now you gave given him bread and butter sex. The other guy got steak and lobster. Pity sex we call it. To him it's scraps from your table.


But...this CAN be salvaged if she truly loves Chris and she's not with him just because he's "safe". IF there is something she never did with her other jerk BF's (and also not caustic to the relationship like inviting a 3rd person to participate or swinging) that can be risque, then she can potentially redeem herself. But she'd have to sell at and make Chris feel that he REALLY IS the love of her life, and it would have to be something that he would be seriously into. 

For example, say she used to swallow and refused for Chris. But maybe there is something else that could rock Chris's world that may be something special for those 2 only - like sex in the woods, using a pleasure swing or nude photographs.


----------



## samyeagar

bandit.45 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And this why Tammy I think your relationship is doomed. Most guys cannot get past this, and since you aren't married, it's that much easier for Chris to walk away from this painful situation.
> 
> Every time you and him have sex he's going you think you are just doing it to appease him. Up until now you gave given him bread and butter sex. The other guy got steak and lobster. Pity sex we call it. To him it's scraps from your table.


The messages are so complicated, confusing and contradictory. He is so good to her, makes her feel safe, secure, loved. The environment he created, the one she always dreamed of allows her to relax and not worry about having to do things she may not want to do out of fear of losing him. He has made her feel so safe and comfortable, she feels like she doesn't have to work to keep him, and ultimately she doesn't because he loves her, respects her, cares for her in ways the ass hole she worked so hard to keep, degraded herself to keep, never did. He doesn't even have a clue that ultimately he created the situation in which he finds himself.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

samyeagar said:


> An example from my own relationship with my wife...she had threesomes with her cheating husband in an attempt to control his cheating. We were going out on a boat for the afternoon with a friend of my wife's, and there was going to be drinking involved. This friend was one of the ones they had the threesome with, and my wife correctly thought it would be good to give me a heads up as lips get loose when the alcohol flows, and it was way better for her to tell me than for me to just have it sprung on me there.


IDK Sam, just seems like it would be healthier for the both of you to cut this man out of your lives forever. Not a big fan of being friends with guys who banged my wife - even less so if it was in a threesome.


----------



## bandit.45

TammyAB said:


> I know I know but better late than never right?
> 
> I want him to "the guy I get wild with." I guess he maybe thinks he hasn't been up to now, but I really want that to change.
> 
> And like seriously, I could kick myself. I did it with a-hole. I should be doing it with Chris, right?


If you did anything with A-hole that was painful and humiliating, come clean with Chris and say...

"Yes Chris, I did such and such with him this man this many times, but I did not enjoy doing those things. They ended up being painful and demeaning. Why did I do them? Because I was curious at first, and because I was immature and thought I was supposed to do whatever A-hole wanted me to do. I realize now I was wrong in that way of thinking, and I hated those sexual things I did. I don't want to do them again, not for you or any man. I understand if you are hurt by this, but I will not do those things again. Not because I don't love you, not because you are a bad lover, because you most certainly are not! But because those sex acts bring up bad feelings and bad memories in me that I would rather leave behind."


----------



## I Don't Know

Plan 9 from OS said:


> But...this CAN be salvaged if she truly loves Chris and she's not with him just because he's "safe". IF there is something she never did with her other jerk BF's (and also not caustic to the relationship like inviting a 3rd person to participate or swinging) that can be risque, then she can potentially redeem herself. But she'd have to sell at and make Chris feel that he REALLY IS the love of her life, and it would have to be something that he would be seriously into.
> 
> For example, say she used to swallow and refused for Chris. But maybe there is something else that could rock Chris's world that may be something special for those 2 only - like sex in the woods, using a pleasure swing or nude photographs.


And she will likely need to keep reminding him for the rest of their lives together. I don't think this will be a one time solution. No, "there I gave you anal" and they lived happily ever after. It's going to be something that he thinks about sometimes, possibly forever. It's going to put him in a funk occasionally.


----------



## bandit.45

samyeagar said:


> The messages are so complicated, confusing and contradictory. He is so good to her, makes her feel safe, secure, loved. The environment he created, the one she always dreamed of allows her to relax and not worry about having to do things she may not want to do out of fear of losing him. He has made her feel so safe and comfortable, she feels like she doesn't have to work to keep him, and ultimately she doesn't because he loves her, respects her, cares for her in ways the ass hole she worked so hard to keep, degraded herself to keep, never did. He doesn't even have a clue that ultimately he created the situation in which he finds himself.


It's a cruel irony.


----------



## samyeagar

bandit.45 said:


> Takes a special kind of man to put up with a wife like that.


We had many long difficult conversations for sure  These are all things in her past, and I have no doubts that she has no desire to relive that. There were a lot of extenuating circumstances, and she was very forthcoming when she needed to be, even when it cast her in a bad, damaged light.

She has never held back sexually with me, and has left me with no doubts that I am her rock star in bed.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> The messages are so complicated, confusing and contradictory. He is so good to her, makes her feel safe, secure, loved. The environment he created, the one she always dreamed of allows her to relax and not worry about having to do things she may not want to do out of fear of losing him. He has made her feel so safe and comfortable, she feels like she doesn't have to work to keep him, and ultimately she doesn't because he loves her, respects her, cares for her in ways the ass hole she worked so hard to keep, degraded herself to keep, never did. He doesn't even have a clue that ultimately he created the situation in which he finds himself.


How to get out of our own trap? Start treating her badly? It IS contradictory and complicated to say the least.

That's the suckiest part. Knowing how far they went to keep someone who wasn't worth keeping.


----------



## hookares

My take on this is that if the OP isn't a fourteen year old alleged virgin, she more that likely has been with one or more other guys before getting with the guy she's afraid of losing.. Any adult male would have to be pretty naive to not know this. And if she is living in the same town where her past "loves" live, the chances are excellent that he and/or she will run into one. I can tell you about marrying a "virgin" and it doesn't assure any sort of chastity will exist.
One needs to accept it, or move on.


----------



## samyeagar

Plan 9 from OS said:


> IDK Sam, just seems like it would be healthier for the both of you to cut this man out of your lives forever. Not a big fan of being friends with guys who banged my wife - even less so if it was in a threesome.


Took me a minute, but I got it...the friend was actually a female friend of my wife's. I'm not a big fan of her being friends with her exes either...fortunately, she's not.


----------



## firebelly1

Plan 9 from OS said:


> IDK Sam, just seems like it would be healthier for the both of you to cut this man out of your lives forever. Not a big fan of being friends with guys who banged my wife - even less so if it was in a threesome.


I was thinking the same thing - wouldn't it have been better for her to tell you about the threesomes before you two accepted the invitation? Then you could decide if you wanted to hang out with someone your wife had sexual relations with. And why isn't the wife uncomfortable with it? 

I have a female friend who I've been in threesomes with and were I attached, I wouldn't have a problem hanging out with her non-sexually or introducing my SO to her (Although I'm sure he would be like "Can we have a threesome?"). But it might be different if I'd been in threesomes with her and my abusive ex husband. Seems she would be a bad reminder of him.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> How to get out of our own trap? Start treating her badly? It IS contradictory and complicated to say the least.


That I'm not sure of. I created the same environment for my wife...safe, loving, secure. Unlike the OP here, my wife exploded sexually with me. I think it's because my wife is just really into me sexually, and not trading secure comfort for scraps.


----------



## bandit.45

samyeagar said:


> We had many long difficult conversations for sure  These are all things in her past, and I have no doubts that she has no desire to relive that. There were a lot of extenuating circumstances, and she was very forthcoming when she needed to be, even when it cast her in a bad, damaged light.
> 
> She has never held back sexually with me, and has left me with no doubts that I am her rock star in bed.


Yeah...okay...

But I think she has sh!t taste in friends.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> *I was thinking the same thing - wouldn't it have been better for her to tell you about the threesomes before you two accepted the invitation? Then you could decide if you wanted to hang out with someone your wife had sexual relations with. And why isn't the wife uncomfortable with it? *
> 
> I have a female friend who I've been in threesomes with and were I attached, I wouldn't have a problem hanging out with her non-sexually or introducing my SO to her (Although I'm sure he would be like "Can we have a threesome?"). But it might be different if I'd been in threesomes with her and my abusive ex husband. Seems she would be a bad reminder of him.


Funny this...the day before the boat trip, my wife asked me if I was sure I was going to be ok with going, and I was kind of confused as to why it would be a problem...and I was like ummm yeah, why wouldn't I be? My wife looked confused and said because I was WITH her? OK. Back the truck up here...no sweetheart, you never told me about this...she honestly thought she had already told me, and so she told me everything right then and there, and even volunteered to call and cancel if I needed a bit more time to digest things...


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I Don't Know said:


> And she will likely need to keep reminding him for the rest of their lives together. I don't think this will be a one time solution. No, "there I gave you anal" and they lived happily ever after. It's going to be something that he thinks about sometimes, possibly forever. It's going to put him in a funk occasionally.


No doubt. It's not like what you'll find in a 30 min sitcom where the big issue is resolved in plenty of time to include messages from our sponsors...

This will be a process that she will have to undertake if she really loves the guy. My thoughts were for her to stop the bleeding somehow with something different than what was given to the other jerks. But she'll also have to get into the mindset that she wants to explore intimacy with Chris too. So maybe she doesn't do those things she used to do with the jerk BFs, but maybe she can greatly improve the quality of what they do AND introduce NEW things and then when given a little more time reintroduce some of the older stuff she used to do as well.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

lol

Chris is focusing on how Mr Pub Blabbermouth got Ms "wild and crazy" instead of on his gal. The girl that TRIED wild and crazy, didn't much like it, and became Ms not as wild and crazy as she used to be. She's EVOLVED but he wants her to regress.

Also,, don't think it mattered that she called Blabbermouth an A-hole. If she'd said, "Oh, him. I remember. Nice guy." Chris woulda gone, "What? Nicer than me?!"

There's no right answer when the insecure are feeding their insecurities.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AliceA

bandit.45 said:


> Takes a special kind of man to put up with a wife like that.


"a wife like that"... from everything I've read that he's written, she's a special kind of woman and he's lucky to have her, even though she has a past.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Flying_Dutchman said:


> lol
> 
> Chris is focusing on how Mr Pub Blabbermouth got Ms "wild and crazy" instead of on his gal. The girl that TRIED wild and crazy, didn't much like it, and became Ms not as wild and crazy as she used to be. She's EVOLVED but he wants her to regress.
> 
> Also,, don't think it mattered that she called Blabbermouth an A-hole. If she'd said, "Oh, him. I remember. Nice guy." Chris woulda gone, "What? Nicer than me?!"
> 
> There's no right answer when the insecure are feeding their insecurities.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl:


----------



## samyeagar

breeze said:


> "a wife like that"... from everything I've read that he's written, she's a special kind of woman and he's lucky to have her, even though she has a past.


Perfect post for my 1000th like.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

samyeagar said:


> Perfect post for my 1000th like.


your wife is deffo a keeper Samy. And you deserve her. 

I can't see 'likes' on my mobile version. Are there also 'hates', cuz I think I dun accumulated a bunch of those in this thread alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

TammyAB said:


> I know I know but better late than never right?
> 
> I want him to "the guy I get wild with." I guess he maybe thinks he hasn't been up to now, but I really want that to change.
> 
> *And like seriously, I could kick myself. I did it with a-hole. I should be doing it with Chris, right?*


This is why I think Samyeager suggested you are devaluing your past choices.

Chris found out that you made choice that completely mismatches the character he believes you to be, that either 1) you were sexually attracted to ahole and chose to have sex with him and are now lying to him or 2) you have had sex with men that you are not are not sexually attracted to, so why, what were you after?

He is rightly feeling lied to because either a) he is being used for the things he has to offer but is not sexually attracted by you or b) that you are fake and don't hold the values you have led him to believe you have.

I suspect that as much as you appreciate him and the feelings of comfort you have around him, that he doesn't knock your socks off. Despite you believing that you are very compatible, I think your values are vastly different, and that the compatibility may be one sided.

But either way, the best part about dating and courtship is that neither of you have spoken vows is that it forces you to recognize that all relationships are optional. If he loves you he will not let go of you, but he may put the relationship to the test to work at testing you to see if love has the same meaning.


----------



## LongWalk

If it was anal sex and you didn't like it, don't do it now. Tell your BF that it is something you would only consider if you felt secure and loved.


----------



## TammyAB

OK so here's a quick update because I have to go and get ready. Chris and I spoke and he's agreed to come over so we can talk face to face. I'm going to make a special meal as well that I know is his favorite.

Today he didn't sound upset really. It was more like he was trying to see things differently or something. Other than what I've already mentioned he's hung up on why I would have sex with an a-hole and then do anal even though and he quoted me as saying "I didn't like him." I just don't know what to say that won't make it worse.

Then he wanted to talk about pasts and I saw it coming he asked if i had sex with a lot of a-holes and if I had anal sex with them too. I didn't want to aggravate things so I focused on how much I love him and how much he means to me. Anyway, I hope that we can get past all this. Thanks


----------



## I Don't Know

Flying_Dutchman said:


> lol
> 
> Chris is focusing on how Mr Pub Blabbermouth got Ms "wild and crazy" instead of on his gal. The girl that TRIED wild and crazy, didn't much like it, and became Ms not as wild and crazy as she used to be. She's EVOLVED but he wants her to regress.
> 
> Also,, don't think it mattered that she called Blabbermouth an A-hole. If she'd said, "Oh, him. I remember. Nice guy." Chris woulda gone, "What? Nicer than me?!"
> 
> There's no right answer when the insecure are feeding their insecurities.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How is wild and crazy regressing? What he wants is to be the guy that gets her panties to drop with a look. Maybe he is, but he's not feeling that way right now.

Second part, yeah but when it's an a$$hole it's worse. It just is.


----------



## TammyAB

bandit.45 said:


> "Yes Chris, I did such and such with him this man this many times, but I did not enjoy doing those things. They ended up being painful and demeaning. Why did I do them? Because I was curious at first, and because I was immature and thought I was supposed to do whatever A-hole wanted me to do. I realize now I was wrong in that way of thinking, and I hated those sexual things I did. I don't want to do them again, not for you or any man. I understand if you are hurt by this, but I will not do those things again. Not because I don't love you, not because you are a bad lover, because you most certainly are not! But because those sex acts bring up bad feelings and bad memories in me that I would rather leave behind."


This is really good!! Thank you soo much! I'll say this tonight. It's not all completley true. It didn't hurt. It's just that after we broke up I felt that the a-hole had demeaned me. But then again with Chris it wouldn't be demeaning becasue he just is not that kind of man. I just know that. I really didn't act right with him


----------



## nuclearnightmare

breeze said:


> "a wife like that"... from everything I've read that he's written, she's a special kind of woman and he's lucky to have her, even though she has a past.


now I have to weigh in on poor Sam's life. yes...it's come to this - 

don't take offense Sam but as I read many things you have written its the other way around. compared to her past BFs and husbands you are the special one (e.g. feel confident you'll stay out of prison?!) and she is the lucky one.


----------



## bandit.45

breeze said:


> "a wife like that"... from everything I've read that he's written, she's a special kind of woman and he's lucky to have her, even though she has a past.


Yeah....a past full of skeletons that keep tumbling out of her closets into Sammys lap when he least expects it. Waiting until the last minute to spring that news on him before going boating was completely pre-planned. She waited until it was too late for him to back out. 

Yeah...special...


----------



## TammyAB

Plan 9 from OS said:


> This will be a process that she will have to undertake if she really loves the guy. My thoughts were for her to stop the bleeding somehow with something different than what was given to the other jerks. But she'll also have to get into the mindset that she wants to explore intimacy with Chris too. So maybe she doesn't do those things she used to do with the jerk BFs, but maybe she can greatly improve the quality of what they do AND introduce NEW things and then when given a little more time reintroduce some of the older stuff she used to do as well.


Sorry that I'm rushing here.

Yeas, for sure. Chris and I will definitely try new stuff. Completely.


----------



## I Don't Know

nuclearnightmare said:


> now I have to weigh in on poor Sam's life. yes...it's come to this -
> 
> don't take offense Sam but as I read many things you have written its the other way around. compared to her past BFs and husbands you are the special one *(e.g. feel confident you'll stay out of prison?!)* and she is the lucky one.


I don't know who's special and who's lucky but that part cracked me up!


----------



## bandit.45

nuclearnightmare said:


> now I have to weigh in on poor Sam's life. yes...it's come to this -
> 
> don't take offense Sam but as I read many things you have written its the other way around. compared to her past BFs and husbands you are the special one (e.g. feel confident you'll stay out of prison?!) and she is the lucky one.


This I agree with.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

The big question then is...Why refuse to do that with Chris if anal sex 1) did not hurt and 2) you said you liked it at the time. Seems like it was who you did it with that later upset you and not the act itself. Perception can be a funny thing.


----------



## TammyAB

Flying_Dutchman said:


> lol
> 
> Chris is focusing on how Mr Pub Blabbermouth got Ms "wild and crazy" instead of on his gal. The girl that TRIED wild and crazy, didn't much like it, and became Ms not as wild and crazy as she used to be. She's EVOLVED but he wants her to regress.
> 
> Also,, don't think it mattered that she called Blabbermouth an A-hole. If she'd said, "Oh, him. I remember. Nice guy." Chris woulda gone, "What? Nicer than me?!"
> 
> There's no right answer when the insecure are feeding their insecurities.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes to some of that. YES, he is absolutely focusing on a-hole blabbermouth and what I did with him. That's the thing I have to resolve.

And even though you're being funny, a-hole was not remotely a nice guy. Ew actually. Can't believe I was with him at all!! 

Chris IS a nice guy. He's the nicest man I've ever met along with being the complete package!!! I have to get that message across to him


----------



## bandit.45

TammyAB said:


> Sorry that I'm rushing here.
> 
> Yeas, for sure. Chris and I will definitely try new stuff. Completely.


I know of scant few men who want bread and butter duty sex from their women. If he won't take the lead in bed then you need to.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

TammyAB said:


> Sorry that I'm rushing here.
> 
> Yeas, for sure. Chris and I will definitely try new stuff. Completely.


Only if you truly think he's someone you really love. IF you think of him as safe and secure first before you think of him as sexually desirable, then end it. Don't settle. You'll regret it if you do. Good luck.


----------



## bandit.45

TammyAB said:


> Yes to some of that. YES, he is absolutely focusing on a-hole blabbermouth and what I did with him. That's the thing I have to resolve.
> 
> And even though you're being funny, a-hole was not remotely a nice guy. Ew actually. Can't believe I was with him at all!!
> 
> Chris IS a nice guy. He's the nicest man I've ever met along with being the complete package!!! I have to get that message across to him


Don't use the words "nice, sweet, cute, darling....etc. around Chris when you describe him. Shezzus girl....Reprogram your thought process. 

Hunk

Stud

Manly

Masculine

Hot

Unreal

Mouthwatering

Scrumptious

Yummy.....


----------



## I Don't Know

TammyAB said:


> Yes to some of that. YES, he is absolutely focusing on a-hole blabbermouth and what I did with him. That's the thing I have to resolve.
> 
> And even though you're being funny, a-hole was not remotely a nice guy.* Ew actually. Can't believe I was with him at all!! *
> 
> Chris IS a nice guy. He's the nicest man I've ever met along with being the complete package!!! I have to get that message across to him


Sigh. I really don't understand women at all. There is a difference between having sex with someone you "don't like" and someone you ACTUALLY DISLIKE. Why would anyone have sex with someone they dislike? Don't worry Tammy you're not alone and I'm not picking on you. I. Just. Don't. Get. It.


----------



## Lon

Plan 9 from OS said:


> The big question then is...Why refuse to do that with Chris if anal sex 1) did not hurt and 2) you said you liked it at the time. Seems like it was who you did it with that later upset you and not the act itself. *Perception can be a funny thing*.


Yes, and the perception Chris has is that Tammy was more turned on by the ahole than she ever will be by him. And since its too late, the perception he will have if she puts spicy sex on the menu now is that he is being placated. Worse he knows that if she is not turned on by him she will eventually be turned on by some other ahole. If he's the kind of guy who associates love and sex he probably won't even be able to get it up because he is not feeling the love.


----------



## TammyAB

LongWalk said:


> If it was anal sex and you didn't like it, don't do it now. Tell your BF that it is something you would only consider if you felt secure and loved.


OK this is my last post cause I have to go and get ready.

I can't say this at all! 

Chris is then going to say that I must have felt all loved and secure with the other guy so i did it. And this is completley not true. I guess I was adventursome or just plain dumb and got used

Then Chris would also say that I don't feel loved and secured by Chris - which is just not true. I do feel loved and secure with Chris and I can see us spending the rest of our lives together.


How do I tell Chris that the a-hole really wasn't even a blip on the radar and that he meant zero which he did and does!


----------



## nuclearnightmare

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Only if you truly think he's someone you really love. IF you think of him as safe and secure first before you think of him as sexually desirable, then end it. Don't settle. You'll regret it if you do. Good luck.


OP:
actually good point here - 
is Chris the guy you have had the greatest sexual chemistry with? do you want him - sexually - more than any other guy you have been with? if so and if you can confidently assure him of that then the rest is just details. he'll be fine


----------



## bandit.45

Tammy how old are you and Chris?


----------



## bandit.45

TammyAB said:


> OK this is my last post cause I have to go and get ready.
> 
> I can't say this at all!
> 
> Chris is then going to say that I must have felt all loved and secure with the other guy so i did it. And this is completley not true. I guess I was adventursome or just plain dumb and got used
> 
> Then Chris would also say that I don't feel loved and secured by Chris - which is just not true. I do feel loved and secure with Chris and I can see us spending the rest of our lives together.
> 
> 
> How do I tell Chris that the a-hole really wasn't even a blip on the radar and that he meant zero which he did and does!


You can't tell Chris in any way he will believe it. 

Have faith that his nice guy tendencies rule the evening and he chooses to put it behind him. Poor guy.


----------



## hubbydude

TammyAB said:


> Yes to some of that. YES, he is absolutely focusing on a-hole blabbermouth and what I did with him. That's the thing I have to resolve.
> 
> And even though you're being funny, a-hole was not remotely a nice guy. Ew actually. Can't believe I was with him at all!!
> 
> Chris IS a nice guy. He's the nicest man I've ever met along with being the complete package!!! I have to get that message across to him


Sorry, a bit late joining the thread so others may have made this point already but.....

Here's a fact, whether Chris tells you it or not - HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE THE NICE GUY, HE WANTS TO BE THE CRAZY SEX GUY, at least some of the time.

I suspect you telling him how great he is, how much nicer he is than 'a-hole', and how much safer he makes you feel etc. etc. is NOT going to help him move forward. He already knows he's a nice guy and he also knows that "nice guys" don't typically get the wild, crazy sex that the a-holes do. He wants some of that!

Tell him how much more of a "man" he is than this other guy, that he excites you in ways that 'a-hole' never did, that he's better looking, stronger, more confident, more capable. Act a little jelous of other women, tell him you noticed some hot girl checking him out and you didn't like it, that you want everyone to know that he's yours.

You don't have to apologise for anything you done before you met him, but making him feel a little more alpha-male when you know he's a nice guy underneath will help him get over it.


----------



## bandit.45

It's fvcking sad that a bunch of dudes have to teach a chick this sh!t.


----------



## Lon

TammyAB said:


> Yes to some of that. YES, he is absolutely focusing on a-hole blabbermouth and what I did with him. That's the thing I have to resolve.
> 
> And even though you're being funny, a-hole was not remotely a nice guy. Ew actually. Can't believe I was with him at all!!
> 
> Chris IS a nice guy. He's the nicest man I've ever met along with being the complete package!!! *I have to get that message across to him*


The more you try that angle, the more he will feel like you are trying to take advantage of him.

Your best plan with Chris is brutal honesty. If you were sexually attracted to the ahole then admit it and move on to the part where you are sexually attracted to Chris. 

If you are not sexually attracted to Chris but just appreciate the way he treats you, then let him go so he can find someone who the attraction is mutual for and so that you can find someone that is your type as well as treats you the way you've learned you want to be treated.

Men don't really care if our women think of us as nice, what we want is their respect and their lust, BOTH. You lusted for the ahole but you didn't respect him - Chris can cope with that. What he can't cope with is a lack of lust.


----------



## hubbydude

TammyAB said:


> OK this is my last post cause I have to go and get ready.
> 
> I can't say this at all!
> 
> Chris is then going to say that I must have felt all loved and secure with the other guy so i did it. And this is completley not true. I guess I was adventursome or just plain dumb and got used
> 
> Then Chris would also say that I don't feel loved and secured by Chris - which is just not true. I do feel loved and secure with Chris and I can see us spending the rest of our lives together.
> 
> 
> How do I tell Chris that the a-hole really wasn't even a blip on the radar and that he meant zero which he did and does!


Chris is a man. He doesn't equate sex with feeling loved and secure, he equates sex with being attractive. Let's face it, if you done all sorts of things with 'a-hole' it's because you felt adventerous (your word) and turned on. He wants you to feel like that about him.

No man wants to be the "nice guy" or the "safe bet". It's one step closer to the "friend zone" ("you're so nice, such a good friend, I could never have sex with you").


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

TammyAB said:


> Yes to some of that. YES, he is absolutely focusing on a-hole blabbermouth and what I did with him. That's the thing I have to resolve.
> 
> And even though you're being funny, a-hole was not remotely a nice guy.


Rest assured, Tammy, however ill-conceived the humour, however boldly-fonted the squabbings we've had over your OP and updates, I'm pretty sure we're united in the conclusion that Mr Blabbermouth is pure, unadulterated knòbcheese of the first order. Someone needs to find him a rancid pond where he can lurk with the other bottom-feeders.


And stop beating yourself up about it. You'd be surprised how many women rue the day they caught the eye of a bad boy/dìckhead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

hubbydude said:


> Chris is a man. He doesn't equate sex with feeling loved and secure, he equates sex with being attractive. Let's face it, if you done all sorts of things with 'a-hole' it's because you felt adventerous (your word) and turned on. He wants you to feel like that about him.
> 
> No man wants to be the "nice guy" or the "safe bet". It's one step closer to the "friend zone" ("you're so nice, such a good friend, I could never have sex with you").


The confusing thing about men is that its both. A lot of men, particularly nice guys, equate sex with attraction AS WELL AS love. So while its good to be a nice guy, and to be able to offer love and security, we also need that sexual enthusiasm from our woman.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

I Don't Know said:


> Sigh. I really don't understand women at all. There is a difference between having sex with someone you "don't like" and someone you ACTUALLY DISLIKE. Why would anyone have sex with someone they dislike? Don't worry Tammy you're not alone and I'm not picking on you. I. Just. Don't. Get. It.


Psych 101. A cheater will demonize a spouse to justify having an affair, a person will trivialize something they want but cannot have, and a person who is no longer with a BF/GF wonders what he/she saw in that person from the beginning. Everyone rationalizes choices and behaviors to some degree.

The truth is somewhere in the middle on this last guy. She was more attracted to him and turned on by him when they first met. IMHO, if the jerk BF was somewhat nicer to her then most likely she would have either stayed with him longer or may even be with him today. 

For the OP's (and Chris's sake) I HOPE that Chris wasn't the first good guy she dated after a string of jerks. If so, her perception is skewed. I cannot get past the statement she made that she was completely content to put the wild and kinky sex behind her now that she met Chris. It begs the question Who was she trying to fool with that statement? Was it Chris or herself? My instincts tell me that Chris is not the guy that does it for her sexually. No matter what other great traits Chris may have, if he doesn't have "IT" in the intimacy department for her it's not going to work.


----------



## AliceA

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah....a past full of skeletons that keep tumbling out of her closets into Sammys lap when he least expects it. Waiting until the last minute to spring that news on him before going boating was completely pre-planned. She waited until it was too late for him to back out.
> 
> Yeah...special...


Men come on here and complain their wives won't do enough for them sexually, leading to the end of the marriage or making their existence horrible, then when we hear of a woman who tried to do everything her ex husband wanted her to in order to save her marriage she is talked about like she's some kind of heinous wh0re. All her motives are suddenly devious and horrible and she's planned it all out to trap a great man into a marriage so she can have her wicked way with him...

Yeah, I can see who's *special* here.


----------



## Buddy400

TammyAB,

Ack! I got here too late. If there's still time, read the following.

If you truly regret your past, which I think you clearly do from your posts.....

Do NOT tell him he's nice! Tell him he is the man of your sexual dreams! You lust for him like no other!

Tell him that you truly regret your past behavior, especially with the a-hole.

Tell him you didn't really like anal and that one reason probably is because the other guy was an a-hole and it has bad associations for you.

But, you'll consider doing anything with Chris that he wants because you truly love him. Let him decide if he wants to take you up on this and when the time is right.

Having sex with an a-hole and doing something with an a-hole that you won't do with the guy you love are HUGE problems for guys. Maybe it's very wrong, but that is the way it is.

Tell him that, now that you've met him, the idea of being intimate with another man repulses you.

If you've had sex with other men that he might know, ask him what he needs to know to avoid the same sort of thing from happening again.

Do not just try to avoid the topic by just reassuring him how much you love him. Be up front and volunteer to tell him anything he wants to know. Tell him that you're willing even though the thought of your previous encounters repulses you. 

We can debate the morality and correctness of saying these things later, but you must do this NOW.


----------



## AliceA

There is one exception to what I stated before about pleasing your partner, and that's anal. No one should ever go down that path unless it's something they want to do for themselves, and not just because of the possible physical damage, but because you are right, it is demeaning if it's not wanted.

Edited to add: If your Chris wants you to have anal sex with him despite the fact that you don't like it, he's not the 'nice' guy you think he is.


----------



## bandit.45

breeze said:


> Men come on here and complain their wives won't do enough for them sexually, leading to the end of the marriage or making their existence horrible, then when we hear of a woman who tried to do everything her ex husband wanted her to in order to save her marriage she is talked about like she's some kind of heinous wh0re. All her motives are suddenly devious and horrible and she's planned it all out to trap a great man into a marriage so she can have her wicked way with him...
> 
> Yeah, I can see who's *special* here.


We disagree. Get over it. I like Sammy. I don't like his wife. That's my burden.


----------



## bandit.45

intheory said:


> If a guy doesn't want 'bread and butter duty sex'; then shouldn't he take the lead?
> 
> Guys' lying back in bed, and letting the woman do all the work - that to me is either the male version of 'duty sex', or plain, f*cking laziness.
> 
> If you want 'steak and lobster', *do* something about it.


Yes. I agree with you. Men should always take the lead. But if she wants him that bad as a potential husband, and he's not taking the lead, she may have to steer the bike for him until his testicles descend and he starts showing some initiative.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

bandit.45 said:


> Yes. I agree with you. Men should always take the lead. But if she wants him that bad as a potential husband, and he's not taking the lead, she may have to steer the bike for him until his testicles descend and he starts showing some initiative.


Chris has learned here that nice guys finish last. For future reference he just needs to take what he wants and not worry about being a gentleman, because god knows that the guys before him were not worried about being gentlemen.


----------



## Buddy400

Woman can go on as much as they'd like about how it's their sexuality, that they don't owe any man anything, that they can have sex with whoever they want, whenever they want, that just because they did something with a previous lover there's no reason that they should be obliged to do it with the one they profess to love... and I'm not saying that they can't think those things.

But... behavior like that is what leads to men having attitudes like this:



WorkingOnMe said:


> Chris has learned here that nice guys finish last. For future reference he just needs to take what he wants and not worry about being a gentleman, because god knows that the guys before him were not worried about being gentlemen.


And that's not good for the future of gender relations.


----------



## Revamped

bandit.45 said:


> Don't use the words "nice, sweet, cute, darling....etc. around Chris when you describe him. Shezzus girl....Reprogram your thought process.
> 
> Hunk
> 
> Stud
> 
> Manly
> 
> Masculine
> 
> Hot
> 
> Unreal
> 
> Mouthwatering
> 
> Scrumptious
> 
> Yummy.....


Lmao! Do "real" men really want to be described like this better than "nice, charming, sophisticated"?


----------



## Buddy400

Revamped said:


> Lmao! Do "real" men really want to be described like this better than "nice, charming, sophisticated"?


Absolutely!


----------



## Decorum

WorkingOnMe said:


> Chris has learned here that nice guys finish last. For future reference he just needs to take what he wants and not worry about being a gentleman, because god knows that the guys before him were not worried about being gentlemen.


Tammy,
Why not just say this..." I was young and learning about relationships, I did not recognize what an A-hole he was. Frankly he just took what he wanted. Things like anal sex seemed a bit taboo but honestly as a young woman I was somewhat naturally submissive.. I realized later that he was an a-hoe and did not really care for or respect me, so that relationship is not one I would want again and I left it in the past. 

Chris no one has ever loved or respected me the way you have, I feel better about myself just because you love me. I am completely turned on by you and I would not deny you anything you wanted. If there is something you want I want to be the one to give it to you.

A-hole was just a man but you are the man of my dreams, take what you want and I will follow your lead, I could never be ashamed of anything we do together."


----------



## TammyAB

A quick note then I'll come back tomorrow.

Chris came over but he wasn't really in the mood to eat so we talked. He just left to go get another bottle of wine so he'll be back in a bit

I really think we're getting past this!! I really emphasized how he means the world to me and that the jerk was a mistake and i wish it never happened.

Chris wanted to know if i thought that guy was sexy even though i didn't like him. Basically I said at the time i didn't know what i wanted and just went with things. Now that I'm with Chris everything is just so much better.

I know he saw that I was sincere cause he hugged me for a long time. I for sure told him that I am totally attracted to him because I am! Then he sort of got angry at the jerk first for taking advantage and then for bragging. Chris feels kind of "small" as he put it knowing that the a-hole is blabbing **** about what he did. Chris doesn't know how to face his friends and he figures everybody knows. I don't know how to deal with that so if anybody has suggestions please give 'em.

Thanks.

I'm so happy that Chris really stepped up here. He really is the guy for me


----------



## bandit.45

Revamped said:


> Lmao! Do "real" men really want to be described like this better than "nice, charming, sophisticated"?


I'm not a nice guy. In fact ask many of the men who work on my jobsites....I can be a hard assed mofo. But I try to be good to the women I'm with, I try to be honest, polite, thoughtful, and I try to treat people the way I want to be treated. I don't consider that nice. I consider that normal.


----------



## bandit.45

TammyAB said:


> A quick note then I'll come back tomorrow.
> 
> Chris came over but he wasn't really in the mood to eat so we talked. He just left to go get another bottle of wine so he'll be back in a bit
> 
> I really think we're getting past this!! I really emphasized how he means the world to me and that the jerk was a mistake and i wish it never happened.
> 
> Chris wanted to know if i thought that guy was sexy even though i didn't like him. Basically I said at the time i didn't know what i wanted and just went with things. Now that I'm with Chris everything is just so much better.
> 
> I know he saw that I was sincere cause he hugged me for a long time. I for sure told him that I am totally attracted to him because I am! Then he sort of got angry at the jerk first for taking advantage and then for bragging. Chris feels kind of "small" as he put it knowing that the a-hole is blabbing **** about what he did. Chris doesn't know how to face his friends and he figures everybody knows. I don't know how to deal with that so if anybody has suggestions please give 'em.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I'm so happy that Chris really stepped up here. He really is the guy for me


Chris should find the douche bag and give him a beat down. That's what I think.


----------



## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> I'm not a nice guy. In fact ask many of the men who work on my jobsites....I can be a hard assed mofo. But I try to be good to the women I'm with, I try to be honest, polite, thoughtful, and I try to treat people the way I want to be treated. I don't consider that nice. I consider that normal.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:
Half generation beneath us SOME not all I find disturbing as far as respect goes.
End threadjack.


----------



## firebelly1

I do learn a lot on TAM about how men think. It's like having the older brothers I never had. 

Someone was shocked that she had to learn this from you but as a woman, I totally get her point of view. She did something she regrets and doesn't want to repeat. And maybe, she did something to please someone who was an as*hole because at the time, she didn't think she could do any better. 

But maybe she is as confused as I am about what "respectable" men want. Because respectable men, apparently, think a woman who has had lots of partners is equivalent to a "cum dumpster." So, maybe it follows, and this is what I have thought, that he might also think a woman who likes anal is a wh*re. A woman who loves having oral performed on her likes it TOO much. 

You guys want us to be ****ty, but only with you. Is that what I'm hearing? Not intuitive.


----------



## ricky15100

Tell him the truth, you thought you loved this guy, you thought you knew what love was, but it wasn't until Chris came into your life that every other man paled in comparison. Apologise for not being completely honest in the past, and ask him what you can do so you can both move forward from this. Chris needs a little pick me up and assurance from you.

I can't believe people are telling you to leave the guy over this, his animal instincts have taken over, and he sees things in this guy that he's not and is now wondering if he's inadequate in certain areas. I'm sure he's also feeling a little humiliated ( not your fault by the way) I'm certain you can get past this.

I will say one thing though, if this is a one for Chris then it's worth saving, however if you've noticed little red flags along the way in relation to his insecurities then there may be a bigger problem, keep your eyes open


----------



## bandit.45

firebelly1 said:


> I do learn a lot on TAM about how men think. It's like having the older brothers I never had.
> 
> Someone was shocked that she had to learn this from you but as a woman, I totally get her point of view. She did something she regrets and doesn't want to repeat. And maybe, she did something to please someone who was an as*hole because at the time, she didn't think she could do any better.
> 
> But maybe she is as confused as I am about what "respectable" men want. Because respectable men, apparently, think a woman who has had lots of partners is equivalent to a "cum dumpster." So, maybe it follows, and this is what I have thought, that he might also think a woman who likes anal is a wh*re. A woman who loves having oral performed on her likes it TOO much.
> 
> You guys want us to be ****ty, but only with you. Is that what I'm hearing? Not intuitive.


Angel in the kitchen, sleazy slvt in the bedroom. It's not a hard concept.


----------



## PieceOfSky

firebelly1 said:


> I do learn a lot on TAM about how men think. It's like having the older brothers I never had.
> 
> Someone was shocked that she had to learn this from you but as a woman, I totally get her point of view. She did something she regrets and doesn't want to repeat. And maybe, she did something to please someone who was an as*hole because at the time, she didn't think she could do any better.
> 
> But maybe she is as confused as I am about what "respectable" men want. Because respectable men, apparently, think a woman who has had lots of partners is equivalent to a "cum dumpster." So, maybe it follows, and this is what I have thought, that he might also think a woman who likes anal is a wh*re. A woman who loves having oral performed on her likes it TOO much.
> 
> You guys want us to be ****ty, but only with you. Is that what I'm hearing? Not intuitive.







The problem is with your premise. There's no such thing as "how men think.". Even "respectable" men would have varied perspectives on the behaviors you mentioned, and the context some would drop and others insist on understanding before forming an opinion greatly affect what is seen.



So maybe its not so much a problem of figuring out "what men want" as figuring out "what partner you want, who wants you, in the same ways, and with acceptance of and honesty about who you both are and are becoming.". (NoT familiar with your situation...just speaking of generalities...)


----------



## Buddy400

firebelly1 said:


> You guys want us to be ****ty, but only with you. Is that what I'm hearing? Not intuitive.


Well, we'd like to *think* that. Almost all of us know that isn't realistic and can deal with it. But we* would *like to think that. Anything that can be done to maintain the illusion is helpful




firebelly1 said:


> But maybe she is as confused as I am about what "respectable" men want. Because respectable men, apparently, think a woman who has had lots of partners is equivalent to a "cum dumpster." So, maybe it follows, and this is what I have thought, that he might also think a woman who likes anal is a wh*re. A woman who loves having oral performed on her likes it TOO much.



Well, that's a bit over the top. We do, generally, have a problem with too many casual partners. I haven't seen a man here think that a woman that enjoys anal is a wh0re (we just don't like it when she's done it for someone else and won't do it for us). I've never seen anyone here saying that a woman who loves oral performed on her likes it TOO much. In fact, I haven't seen a man here that doesn't enjoy giving oral to women.

A big difference is that when a man says sex with another woman didn't matter since he didn't have feeling for her, that's apparently helpful. If a woman says that having sex with another man didn't matter because she didn't have feelings for him, that's *not* helpful. 

But, you've got the right idea. You're finding out how men actually think, not how you'd prefer them to think.


----------



## Buddy400

PieceOfSky said:


> So maybe its not so much a problem of figuring out "what men want" as figuring out "what partner you want, who wants you, in the same ways, and with acceptance of and honesty about who you both are and are becoming.". (NoT familiar with your situation...just speaking of generalities...)


Generalities are helpful when dealing with men as a group. They are _generally_ true.

Of course, once you've met someone, generalities are out the door and it's all about specifics.


----------



## Revamped

....I'd like an opportunity to change your line of thinking...

Or at least give you a different perspective.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

Revamped said:


> Lmao! Do "real" men really want to be described like this better than "nice, charming, sophisticated"?


"Your Magnificence" works for me. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Revamped

That would only happen ONCE...

So you'd better record it!


----------



## Faithful Wife

bandit.45 said:


> It's fvcking sad that a bunch of dudes have to teach a chick this sh!t.


I think it is sad that a bunch of dudes are here sl*t shaming this woman.

Tammy...you don't have to have sex in any way you don't want to with anyone you don't want to. The difference between Chris and say, samyeager, is that sam isn't/wasn't going to be a jerk and demand certain sex acts from his wife when he found out she had done them with others. And he isn't going to be all snarky with her and say things like "what other aholes have you had anal sex with?"

Sorry if Chris got his feelings hurt, I get that. But his behavior afterwards is really all you need to know about him.


----------



## firebelly1

Buddy400 said:


> Well, that's a bit over the top. We do, generally, have a problem with too many casual partners. I haven't seen a man here think that a woman that enjoys anal is a wh0re (we just don't like it when she's done it for someone else and won't do it for us). I've never seen anyone here saying that a woman who loves oral performed on her likes it TOO much. In fact, I haven't seen a man here that doesn't enjoy giving oral to women.
> 
> *Maybe other women can chime in here. I might have a bit of a different perspective since I grew up Mormon. But I certainly grew up thinking that being sl*tty included not only sleeping around, but engaging in certain sex acts like anal sex. And it also included being a woman who openly desires sex in and of itself.
> 
> From many of the LD wife stories I've read I get the impression that women often "magically" lose their libido when they have kids and I still theorize it's often because they can't see themselves as a mother AND as a sexual being. We meet the nice, stable, guy and he fits with one image of ourselves while the as*hole fits with the other one.
> *
> A big difference is that when a man says sex with another woman didn't matter since he didn't have feeling for her, that's apparently helpful. If a woman says that having sex with another man didn't matter because she didn't have feelings for him, that's *not* helpful.
> 
> *This is so true. And maybe why we cross wires so much on sexual things. If my guy has sex with a girl that he didn't love, we can get past it. If he loved her, we are done. A couple guys in another thread were also saying they would rather be the best sex of a woman's life than her greatest love. Is that true? So completely opposite of what a woman values. *


----------



## Meli33

*Re: Re: My not so great past has come up in a bad way*



TammyAB said:


> I know the a-hole is an a-hole. He's been blabbing to whoever will listen I guess. I don't know what can be done with him. So yes he's been feeding into how Chris feels.
> 
> Yes, I know.... Poor taste in men ouch but true. How can we as a couple get past that becasue that is a huge part of what Chris is feeling now


Seriously this A-hole needs to get a life and stop worrying about yours!!! I wonder why he is so interested in yours? Maybe he has feelings for you and is jealous Chris has you so he is shooting off his big mouth stirring trouble......


----------



## AliceA

firebelly1 said:


> Maybe other women can chime in here. I might have a bit of a different perspective since I grew up Mormon. But I certainly grew up thinking that being sl*tty included not only sleeping around, but engaging in certain sex acts like anal sex. And it also included being a woman who openly desires sex in and of itself.
> 
> From many of the LD wife stories I've read I get the impression that women often "magically" lose their libido when they have kids and I still theorize it's often because they can't see themselves as a mother AND as a sexual being. We meet the nice, stable, guy and he fits with one image of ourselves while the as*hole fits with the other one.


From my own observations throughout my life of men's reactions to women; a single woman who enjoyed sex and had multiple partners was considered slvtty and fair game (it's even an excuse to rape her apparently), and the equivalent man considered a stud. The only woman I ever heard talk about enjoying anal was someone who was openly discussed by males as being the town bicycle and they used her and dumped her. I remember feeling sorry for her.

Be adventurous sexually as a woman and you're used by the men you are with and despised by the men you will be with. Yep, and this thread pretty much follows that.


----------



## seasalt

Tammy,

I posted early in this thread (post #9) and think that in your continued discussions you should reaffirm that you would never knowingly allow him to have contact with someone you had previously been intimate with because you have respect for him. You should also ask him to treat you with the same love and respect, perhaps restoring some of the balance in your relationship.

As for the sex, always remember the idea of "concenting adults" and fit that into the ways you can fully show your love for each other.

Again, good luck,

Seasalt


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> We had many long difficult conversations for sure  These are all things in her past, and I have no doubts that she has no desire to relive that. *There were a lot of extenuating circumstances, and she was very forthcoming when she needed to be, even when it cast her in a bad, damaged light.*
> 
> She has never held back sexually with me, and has left me with no doubts that I am her rock star in bed.


Even though the past matters to me .. even with a man.. ON the other side of this. I LOVE LOVE LOVE and appreciate forthcoming people.. who can just be REAL about where they were... and what they learned from it.. I would take THIS over any amount of hiding, secretiveness. in fact it makes up for it somehow... there is vulnerability in this.. and this is more important than Perfection.. 

Some would rather NOT know.. I would never be this sort of person (though my H is more like this over me).....I am very forthcoming....and I value that in others..



> *bandit.45 said*: *Angel in the kitchen, sleazy slvt in the bedroom. It's not a hard concept*.


 I really don't understand why women don't get this at all.. don't we all want the Gentleman who is a Hot lover in bed *JUST FOR US*, we are his "one & only" - a one woman type man ??? Do we really like the idea our men have bed 10 + women before us.. I don't know. Doesn't appeal to me at all.. 

It's the same thing.. isn't it?







...I think people just know the ideal is *unrealistic *...especially today when our youth would spit on marrying younger...& would choose to play around, party it up...experiencing many partners before they settle down..so it becomes a sour concept that just ends up offending many...


----------



## samyeagar

breeze said:


> From my own observations throughout my life of *men's reactions to women; a single woman who enjoyed sex and had multiple partners was considered slvtty and fair game* (it's even an excuse to rape her apparently), and the equivalent man considered a stud. The only woman I ever heard talk about enjoying anal was someone who was openly discussed by males as being the town bicycle and they used her and dumped her. I remember feeling sorry for her.
> 
> Be adventurous sexually as a woman and you're used by the men you are with and despised by the men you will be with. Yep, and this thread pretty much follows that.


I'm not sure I would characterize it as she is slvtty, but fair game certainly. If she is into casual sex, that sends a message that she is not looking for a relationship at that point in time, and is a logical partner for a man who isn't looking for one either, a logical hookup. Nothing wrong with that from either person, but certain behaviors tend to attract certain types of people.

It's no secret the bumps in the road my wife and I have had with regards to her sexual past. There is one exchange in particular that I remember very well. She pointed out that none of the past guys seemed to have any issues with her past and the things she'd done, and so she had always just talked completely freely and openly about things. Being with me was a huge learning curve for her. I had to wonder if there was some connection between the mindest of these guys not being bothered by it, and the way they treated her. As much as she didn't like it, her continued behaviors did seem to attract a certain type of guy.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> I'm not sure I would characterize it as she is slvtty, but fair game certainly. If she is into casual sex, that sends a message that she is not looking for a relationship at that point in time, and is a logical partner for a man who isn't looking for one either, a logical hookup. Nothing wrong with that from either person, but certain behaviors tend to attract certain types of people.
> 
> It's no secret the bumps in the road my wife and I have had with regards to her sexual past. There is one exchange in particular that I remember very well. She pointed out that none of the past guys seemed to have any issues with her past and the things she'd done, and so she had always just talked completely freely and openly about things. Being with me was a huge learning curve for her. *I had to wonder if there was some connection between the mindest of these guys not being bothered by it, and the way they treated her.* As much as she didn't like it, her continued behaviors did seem to attract a certain type of guy.



I believe this is true. The guys who didn't care about her as a person, the ones who (seem to have) wanted a warm hole and a house keeper, why would they care? As long as she's putting out and cooking dinner, what's the problem?

I'm not saying that any guy who doesn't care about the past doesn't care about their women, but the ones that don't care about their women probably aren't going to care about her past as long as they are getting what they want.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> I think it is sad that a bunch of dudes are here sl*t shaming this woman.
> 
> Tammy...you don't have to have sex in any way you don't want to with anyone you don't want to. The difference between Chris and say, samyeager, is that sam isn't/wasn't going to be a jerk and demand certain sex acts from his wife when he found out she had done them with others. And he isn't going to be all snarky with her and say things like "what other aholes have you had anal sex with?"
> 
> Sorry if Chris got his feelings hurt, I get that. But his behavior afterwards is really all you need to know about him.


You're right, there are things my wife has done with other men before me. Things that I personally had no real deep desire to try myself, more of a meh, take it or leave it. I had a very good understanding of her previous relationships, and the thought process that led to those things. Some things, like the threesomes, while her motivation was an attempt to control her ex-husbands cheating, she did enjoy it, but wouldn't have done it at all if things were good in her marriage. I have no problems with that, but it's not my cup of tea, and not something that will ever have a place in my marriage.

The oft trotted out example of anal is something she has done with just about every previous partner. I have never had any real desire for it, and had never done it. She has said that it was pretty neutral for her, not painful or too terribly uncomfortable, but really doesn't do anything for her either. She didn't really have any desire to do it, but she did it because she knew guys like it. She was rather surprised when I didn't push for it, even when she offered.

An interesting twist to this though...one night, we were both a little bit tipsy, she very subtly pushed for it, and we did it. She enjoyed it immensely, but it was kind of meh for me. We talked about it later, sort of a post game analysis. She was taken aback by how much she actually enjoyed it, and also wondered how in the hell I knew how to do it right...proper lube, positions, speed, all that. It's because I have read enough about it. She was also surprised that I wasn't jumping up and down thinking it was the best thing ever.

This all ties back into the topic here...my wife and I have, and have had from the very beginning, communication styles that are extremely compatible. We can communicate without the other feeling judged, belittled, defensive. It is a safe zone for us. I don't feel as if I am in competition with her past, as unpleasant as it is for me the think about...uggh the mind movies.


----------



## firebelly1

SimplyAmorous said:


> I really don't understand why women don't get this at all.. don't we all want the Gentleman who is a Hot lover in bed *JUST FOR US*, we are his "one & only" - a one woman type man ??? Do we really like the idea our men have bed 10 + women before us.. I don't know. Doesn't appeal to me at all..


Well...when you put it this way, yes. I do want a guy who is only having hot sex with me. But I see that as a choice he makes now, with me. He may have had multiple partners in the past and been monogamous with each one of them. Or there may have been one night stands involved in there somewhere. Now he's monogamous with me because that's where he's at in his life. His choices in the past don't prevent him from being the hot monogamous guy in my bed. And vice versa. And while I don't want to hear the details of those past dalliances, I accept that they may have happened. And, if he learned from them, I benefit!

Thing is...I have grown up thinking being a gentlemen and being good in bed are mutually exclusive. Just like I grew up thinking being a respectable woman meant not liking sex too much.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> Well...when you put it this way, yes. I do want a guy who is only having hot sex with me. But I see that as a choice he makes now, with me. He may have had multiple partners in the past and been monogamous with each one of them. Or there may have been one night stands involved in there somewhere. Now he's monogamous with me because that's where he's at in his life. His choices in the past don't prevent him from being the hot monogamous guy in my bed. And vice versa. *And while I don't want to hear the details of those past dalliances,* I accept that they may have happened. And, if he learned from them, I benefit!
> 
> Thing is...I have grown up thinking being a gentlemen and being good in bed are mutually exclusive. Just like I grew up thinking being a respectable woman meant not liking sex too much.


Right! And the more dalliances there are, the more likely you are to hear about them, whether either of you want to or not. It doesn't mean you are going to break up with him, or anything like that, but there is a chance it will leave a bad taste in your mouth.


----------



## I Don't Know

firebelly1 said:


> Well...when you put it this way, yes. I do want a guy who is only having hot sex with me. But I see that as a choice he makes now, with me. He may have had multiple partners in the past and been monogamous with each one of them. Or there may have been one night stands involved in there somewhere. Now he's monogamous with me because that's where he's at in his life. His choices in the past don't prevent him from being the hot monogamous guy in my bed. And vice versa. *And while I don't want to hear the details of those past dalliances, I accept that they may have happened.* And, if he learned from them, I benefit!
> 
> Thing is...I have grown up thinking being a gentlemen and being good in bed are mutually exclusive. Just like I grew up thinking being a respectable woman meant not liking sex too much.


That's the kicker. Sometimes you do find out. For me it was discussing likes and dislikes. At first, when things weren't serious, it was hot knowing she could squirt or that she swallowed and all that. But as things got serious and feeling got deeper it lead to wondering who, what, when, and where. I had never discussed specific sexual acts with a partner before, so this took me completely by surprise. Believe me, if I knew the path that it was going to take I never would have asked that first question. Once I started asking every answer brought more questions. It never ends. 

"Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." - Yoda


----------



## Dad&Hubby

firebelly1 said:


> I do learn a lot on TAM about how men think. It's like having the older brothers I never had.
> 
> Someone was shocked that she had to learn this from you but as a woman, I totally get her point of view. She did something she regrets and doesn't want to repeat. And maybe, she did something to please someone who was an as*hole because at the time, she didn't think she could do any better.
> 
> But maybe she is as confused as I am about what "respectable" men want. Because respectable men, apparently, think a woman who has had lots of partners is equivalent to a "cum dumpster." So, maybe it follows, and this is what I have thought, that he might also think a woman who likes anal is a wh*re. A woman who loves having oral performed on her likes it TOO much.
> 
> You guys want us to be ****ty, but only with you. Is that what I'm hearing? Not intuitive.





breeze said:


> From my own observations throughout my life of men's reactions to women; a single woman who enjoyed sex and had multiple partners was considered slvtty and fair game (it's even an excuse to rape her apparently), and the equivalent man considered a stud. The only woman I ever heard talk about enjoying anal was someone who was openly discussed by males as being the town bicycle and they used her and dumped her. I remember feeling sorry for her.
> 
> Be adventurous sexually as a woman and you're used by the men you are with and despised by the men you will be with. Yep, and this thread pretty much follows that.


And the mistake you're making is this all or nothing mentality.

A quick caveat, there are men who are just insecure. The fact that their partner was with someone before is the root of their issue, but it's not EVERY situation, or even the majority I would guess.

The mistake you're making is not considering that SOME men, just hope that their partner was a little discerning. That when she says "Oh you're so wonderful, you're the best man I've ever been in a relationship with."..yada yada..insert glowing remarks of how great of a man you are in the relationship...that it ALSO equates to how sexual she is going to be with you, because she's THAT into you.

MY PERSONAL PERCEPTIONS: I didn't sleep with every woman I could, not even close. I'm a very sexually charged and adventurous man, but I would only explore that with the woman I truly loved (my wife). I've had sex in the past but, my openness and sexuality was linked to the level of love and attraction I have/had. Also men link sex to love and strength of the relationship. The better the sex, the more the woman loves the man.

The issue here isn't that Tammy was wild and crazy before, but that she was wild and crazy before with "aholes" and yet NOT with him, so because of that link (sex to love) Chris has doubts how much Tammy is ACTUALLY into him ACROSS THE BOARD.

So what I'm getting at is Tammy says to Chris how he's the best man she's ever been in a relationship with and how wonderful he is....and yet does more for "aholes".

Imagine you're in a relationship with a guy. He's a wonderful guy, not the most romantic, kind of a cheap skate (making you go dutch a lot of the time), but overall you feel he's a keeper. You'll "overlook" those bad points because the whole package is good. Then you're at a friends bachelorette party and there's this crazy whacko woman. She's loud and obnoxious. Talks about how she uses men and dumps them...just a bad woman. Then it comes out in conversation that she dated "your guy" and he was all over her, buying her flowers at least once a week, taking her out to dinner, doing all of these romantic gestures...it doesn't remotely sound like the same guy.

Are you going to tell me this wouldn't hit you hard?

Now the guy may say "yeah, I was like that but got used, so I won't be like that again." Is he wrong? Should you just accept it, or are you always going to be "aren't I WORTH it, isn't he into me enough to want to do that for me?"

And yes....those two situations are totally analogous. The guy does those special things as an act of love and attraction...people do things sexually as acts of love and attraction.


----------



## hubbydude

TammyAB said:


> A quick note then I'll come back tomorrow.
> 
> Chris came over but he wasn't really in the mood to eat so we talked. He just left to go get another bottle of wine so he'll be back in a bit
> 
> I really think we're getting past this!! I really emphasized how he means the world to me and that the jerk was a mistake and i wish it never happened.
> 
> Chris wanted to know if i thought that guy was sexy even though i didn't like him. Basically I said at the time i didn't know what i wanted and just went with things. Now that I'm with Chris everything is just so much better.
> 
> I know he saw that I was sincere cause he hugged me for a long time. I for sure told him that I am totally attracted to him because I am! Then he sort of got angry at the jerk first for taking advantage and then for bragging. Chris feels kind of "small" as he put it knowing that the a-hole is blabbing **** about what he did. Chris doesn't know how to face his friends and he figures everybody knows. I don't know how to deal with that so if anybody has suggestions please give 'em.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I'm so happy that Chris really stepped up here. He really is the guy for me


Newsflash! Chris is not "getting past this", he's just directing his frustrations away from you and towards Mr.*********. This might be good for you but it doesn't help him out one bit.

You need to understand that his frustration is purely a biological one. Another man has gotten all alpha-male about his woman and he's feeling threatened by it. His body is being flooded with chemicals that have been filtered through millions of years of evolution to cause a specific response in him. He's feeling angry, agitated, in a heightened state of responsiveness to any threats, and frankly, the only thing that will bring him back to normal is to be the alpha male. You might think that all sounds a little macho and primal and doesn't reconcile with your "nice guy" Chris in any way, but biologically he's not far removed from a caveman (none of us are) and his body will respond accordingly whether he likes it or not - this is what you're seeing.

I agree with someone who suggested he needs to give Mr.********* a beat down. Maybe not physically (I wouldn't encourage violence, we have come SOME way from cavemen) but a social beat down at least. He needs to let his circle of friends know full well that when it comes to you, he's the alpha male in the pack and he won't stand for any challenges from anyone else.

You could even encourage him to do this. You could suggest to Chris that, on reflection, you really don't like the way that Mr.Douche was talking about you. You could point out that Mr.Douche isn't even man enough to say anything in front of Chris, that he's shooting his mouth off behind Chris's back, and you could suggest to Chris that he has a word with his friends to let them know that if Mr.Douche wants to mouth off about you that they suggest he do so in front of Chris - that conversations involving you need to go through him. Chris's friends will recognize that Chris is top dog in all matters related to you, and Mr.Douche will likely not say anything in front of Chris so Chris will feel like he's shut him up.

If Chris does nothing this will eat him up. It might make you both feel uncomfortable, and you might prefer to simply let it go, but you'll both be in a much better place if he has a word with his friends.


----------



## firebelly1

Dad&Hubby said:


> And the mistake you're making is this all or nothing mentality.
> 
> A quick caveat, there are men who are just insecure. The fact that their partner was with someone before is the root of their issue, but it's not EVERY situation, or even the majority I would guess.
> 
> The mistake you're making is not considering that SOME men, just hope that their partner was a little discerning. That when she says "Oh you're so wonderful, you're the best man I've ever been in a relationship with."..yada yada..insert glowing remarks of how great of a man you are in the relationship...that it ALSO equates to how sexual she is going to be with you, because she's THAT into you.
> 
> MY PERSONAL PERCEPTIONS: I didn't sleep with every woman I could, not even close. I'm a very sexually charged and adventurous man, but I would only explore that with the woman I truly loved (my wife). I've had sex in the past but, my openness and sexuality was linked to the level of love and attraction I have/had. Also men link sex to love and strength of the relationship. The better the sex, the more the woman loves the man.
> 
> The issue here isn't that Tammy was wild and crazy before, but that she was wild and crazy before with "aholes" and yet NOT with him, so because of that link (sex to love) Chris has doubts how much Tammy is ACTUALLY into him ACROSS THE BOARD.
> 
> So what I'm getting at is Tammy says to Chris how he's the best man she's ever been in a relationship with and how wonderful he is....and yet does more for "aholes".
> 
> Imagine you're in a relationship with a guy. He's a wonderful guy, not the most romantic, kind of a cheap skate (making you go dutch a lot of the time), but overall you feel he's a keeper. You'll "overlook" those bad points because the whole package is good. Then you're at a friends bachelorette party and there's this crazy whacko woman. She's loud and obnoxious. Talks about how she uses men and dumps them...just a bad woman. Then it comes out in conversation that she dated "your guy" and he was all over her, buying her flowers at least once a week, taking her out to dinner, doing all of these romantic gestures...it doesn't remotely sound like the same guy.
> 
> Are you going to tell me this wouldn't hit you hard?
> 
> Now the guy may say "yeah, I was like that but got used, so I won't be like that again." Is he wrong? Should you just accept it, or are you always going to be "aren't I WORTH it, isn't he into me enough to want to do that for me?"
> 
> And yes....those two situations are totally analogous. The guy does those special things as an act of love and attraction...people do things sexually as acts of love and attraction.


That's a good analogy because, yes, absolutely. If he was a cheap skate with me but lavished gifts upon his past gf, I would wonder if he was more into her than he is me. But I'm not one that has a hard time understanding a guy's disappointment that a woman won't perform sex acts that she would with someone else. And don't get me wrong, I would also take pride in knowing that sex with me is the best my SO has ever had. 

My issue is with the repulsion at the number of guys a woman may have slept with and maybe the particular guys involved. The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting. 

But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with. I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude. 

I know guys don't want to hear that but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?

There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. But that may be okay with me, because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - lie your ass off? I don't know. What say you men?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

firebelly1 said:


> That's a good analogy because, yes, absolutely. If he was a cheap skate with me but lavished gifts upon his past gf, I would wonder if he was more into her than he is me. But I'm not one that has a hard time understanding a guy's disappointment that a woman won't perform sex acts that she would with someone else. And don't get me wrong, I would also take pride in knowing that sex with me is the best my SO has ever had.
> 
> My issue is with the repulsion at the number of guys a woman may have slept with and maybe the particular guys involved. The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting.
> 
> But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with. I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude.
> 
> I know guys don't want to hear that but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?
> 
> There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. But that may be okay with me, because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - lie your ass off? I don't know. What say you men?



The problem is, that lack of chemistry is a deal breaker for many men. Even if all those other qualities exist, a lot of men won't settle for being second best in that category.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> That's a good analogy because, yes, absolutely. If he was a cheap skate with me but lavished gifts upon his past gf, I would wonder if he was more into her than he is me. But I'm not one that has a hard time understanding a guy's disappointment that a woman won't perform sex acts that she would with someone else. And don't get me wrong, I would also take pride in knowing that sex with me is the best my SO has ever had.
> 
> My issue is with the repulsion at the number of guys a woman may have slept with and maybe the particular guys involved. The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting.
> 
> But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with. I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude.
> 
> I know guys don't want to hear that but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?
> 
> There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. *But that may be okay with me*, because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - lie your ass off? I don't know. What say you men?


But would it be OK with him? What you described is the very definition of settling. Feeling settled for is absolutely soul crushing, man or woman.

Kind of funny that I am finding myself feeling bad for your hypothetical SO in what you said above.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

firebelly1 said:


> There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. *I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. But that may be okay with me,* because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - lie your ass off? I don't know. What say you men?


As a guy, that would NOT be OK with me. I don't have to be the most desirable man ever to my GF/wife at first blush, because you have zero control over that. But the sexual spark is more than just physical lust. So while I don't have to be the best physical specimen that my GF/wife ever had, but the sum total of what make me who I am SHOULD put me in the top of the most sexually desired person out there in the eyes of my SO. If not, then that is not good enough for me, and I would deserve to find someone that would think of me as a sexual being.


----------



## bandit.45

WorkingOnMe said:


> The problem is, that lack of chemistry is a deal breaker for many men. Even if all those other qualities exist, a lot of men won't settle for being second best in that category.


And that's why, despite their nice little make-up time last night, this relationship is doomed. She already planted the seed in his mind, and it won't stop growing.


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> But would it be OK with him? What you described is the very definition of settling. Feeling settled for is absolutely soul crushing, man or woman.
> 
> The problem is, that lack of chemistry is a deal breaker for many men. Even if all those other qualities exist, a lot of men won't settle for being second best in that category.



Well that's eye-opening, honestly. Not sure why since that does seem to be what men are saying in the "my wife is LD" threads for the most part - that they feel their wives aren't attracted to them. But that it's THAT important to you, that is news to me. 

And...it makes me want to take a look at myself. Not to settle for a man who's bones I don't want to jump. I may have been inclined toward that thinking that overall the pool of datable men my age is small. Men my age who are super sexy, even smaller pool. However, motivation for me to be in the best physical shape I can be in.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

There's nothing inherently wrong in wanting to know about a (prospective) partner's past. It's how some go about getting the information that's wrong.

Overt demanding, intimidation, threats and violence are wrong.

Emotive manipulations, pleading, pouting, insisting, silent treatment and similar 'punishments' are wrong.

Essentially, somebody's 'need to know' doesn't give them the right to bully - with any of the examples above - somebody else. That's prioritising your needs over theirs.

I don't want a 'warm hole and a cook', I can cook pretty well and warm my hand. I want an equal partner who feels comfortable that she can talk to me about anything. I've found that relaxed, trusting partners tell you all 'that stuff' anyway because they want to. 

To my mind, I get the same information the bully gets, maybe more, and it's given by a happy partner that trusts me rather than taken from a frightened one.

Happy, equal partners also tend to stick around longer and without all the myriad dramas that blight the lives of many of the OPs on these forums. Some of the worst horror stories begin with somebody's 'need to know' being prioritised over a partners' needs. Then, when those partners back down to keep the peace, the foundations of an abusive relationship are established as the dominant partner's needs are always prioritised over the needs of the abused.

Surprising, then, to learn that my treating my partners as equals and not prioritising my needs over theirs, is indicative of somebody who just wants a cook and an orifice on tap. 

Fact is, while I like warm meals, warm orifices and ironed shirts, same as the next guy, that they're given to me (rather than taken from her) is what rocks my world.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> That's a good analogy because, yes, absolutely. If he was a cheap skate with me but lavished gifts upon his past gf, I would wonder if he was more into her than he is me. But I'm not one that has a hard time understanding a guy's disappointment that a woman won't perform sex acts that she would with someone else. And don't get me wrong, I would also take pride in knowing that sex with me is the best my SO has ever had.
> 
> My issue is with the repulsion at the number of guys a woman may have slept with and maybe the particular guys involved. The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting.
> 
> But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with. I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude.
> 
> I know guys don't want to hear that but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?
> 
> There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. But that may be okay with me, because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - lie your ass off? I don't know. What say you men?


I wonder if THIS isn't really at the root of a lot of these discussions...feeling sexually settled for.

I imagine most men wouldn't have that big of a problem with their SO having been with men who made more money, had a fancier car, bigger house, bought her more flowers, wrote her more love poems, as long as he knew he was the best and favorite lover.


----------



## Lon

Ladies, for most of us guys, it's not about your history, it's about how closely the persona you've chosen to use with us matches the character of a person with that kind of history.

Yes, some guys are looking for a frisky woman with skill but little experience, ie pure and virginal with a low number. Whether or not such kinds of women can even exist, what really matters is honesty of character.

Personally I value the sexual past of my GF because it has molded the chemistry between her and I. I don't need to know details of her past encounters, nor do I care if she still fits in any mold. However if I ever felt that she was even slightly less than 100% enthusiastic about getting her rocks off with me it would mean that both of our sexual needs were going unfulfilled. Nobody wants to feel settled for or used.


----------



## I Don't Know

I tend to agree. He's trying very hard to get past this because everything tells him this stuff doesn't matter. And to a great many people it doesn't. But it apparently does to him. He thinks he's wrong to feel like he does and he feels guilty about it. He will manage to push this down for now but it's coming back. I would bet the farm on it. If I had a farm.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

firebelly1 said:


> *Just like I grew up thinking being a respectable woman meant not liking sex too much.*


I didn't grow up with this but I sure seen my share of men screwing women & dumping them (very sour taste in my mouth- it cheapens the act)... so I had no use for men who slept around...I just didn't trust their character at all. 

We're all different... I set out wanting to save myself for a worthy guy/ someone who wanted the same things as I...Marriage / a family... who felt sex was *very special*...meaning pure exclusivity, love, deep attachment, even forever... I found one who respected me MORE for how deeply I felt...he treasured those things about me.. 

When I hear men being put down for caring about this.. I feel it belittles & dumps on those like my dear husband...it does offend ME... 

He never pushed me into anything I would be uncomfortable with, which had me feeling deeply cared for, greatly loved from the very beginning...as I KNEW others would have just dumped me... with this.. our emotional connection grew & thrived... Pure Gentleman. 

Sometimes it enters in to what I may have missed but I also know I'm the type who would carry those experiences / compare them ...I often look back to our youth..... so it's really a blessing I didn't go there.. Sex is never just sex to him...it's all "making love".. ...

I realize I leave a different perspective on this forum.. I guess I want to say not all of the Good Guys finish Last ! If more women would reject the Bad guys outright, I believe more men would have incentive to treat women better.. but they see little benefit.. 



> *firebelly1 said*: My issue is with the repulsion at the number of guys a woman may have slept with and maybe the particular guys involved. The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting.
> 
> But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. *He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with.* I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude.
> 
> *I know guys don't want to hear that but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?*





> *samyeagar said: *But would it be OK with him? What you described is the very definition of settling.* Feeling settled for is absolutely soul crushing, man or woman.
> *
> Kind of funny that I am finding myself feeling bad for your hypothetical SO in what you said above


 I , too, see this a "*Settling"*.. and very disheartening to anyone, male or female...we all want to feel we are the Most special in heart, soul and in the bedroom.. 

I guess I see it as so much LESS hurtful if sex was not involved.. but if it was.. it's much harder to swallow.. that's my mindset..


----------



## firebelly1

bandit.45 said:


> And that's why, despite their nice little make-up time last night, this relationship is doomed. She already planted the seed in his mind, and it won't stop growing.


So that's what it's about? You want your woman to really want you sexually, not just because she's horny but because she is wildly attracted to you. And really, you want to be the man she has been most wildly attracted to in her whole life. And the fact that she would perform a sex act with one guy and not you says to you that she was more attracted to him than you? He turned her on more than you?


----------



## I Don't Know

Flying_Dutchman said:


> There's nothing inherently wrong in wanting to know about a (prospective) partner's past. It's how some go about getting the information that's wrong.
> 
> Overt demanding, intimidation, threats and violence are wrong.
> 
> Emotive manipulations, pleading, pouting, insisting, silent treatment and similar 'punishments' are wrong.
> 
> Essentially, somebody's 'need to know' doesn't give them the right to bully - with any of the examples above - somebody else. That's prioritising your needs over theirs.
> 
> I don't want a 'warm hole and a cook', I can cook pretty well and warm my hand. I want an equal partner who feels comfortable that she can talk to me about anything. I've found that relaxed, trusting partners tell you all 'that stuff' anyway because they want to.
> 
> To my mind, I get the same information the bully gets, maybe more, and it's given by a happy partner that trusts me rather than taken from a frightened one.
> 
> Happy, equal partners also tend to stick around longer and without all the myriad dramas that blight the lives of many of the OPs on these forums. Some of the worst horror stories begin with somebody's 'need to know' being prioritised over a partners' needs. Then, when those partners back down to keep the peace, the foundations of an abusive relationship are established as the dominant partner's needs are always prioritised over the needs of the abused.
> 
> Surprising, then, to learn that my treating my partners as equals and not prioritising my needs over theirs, is indicative of somebody who just wants a cook and an orifice on tap.
> 
> Fact is, while I like warm meals, warm orifices and ironed shirts, same as the next guy, that they're given to me (rather than taken from her) is what rocks my world.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So you're a rectangle then. Fair enough. I never said all rectangles are squares.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My not so great past has come up in a bad way*



firebelly1 said:


> So that's what it's about? You want your woman to really want you sexually, not just because she's horny but because she is wildly attracted to you. And really, you want to be the man she has been most wildly attracted to in her whole life. And the fact that she would perform a sex act with one guy and not you says to you that she was more attracted to him than you? He turned her on more than you?


That's obvious, isn't it?


----------



## firebelly1

Lon said:


> That's obvious, isn't it?


It's coming together for me, but no, it hasn't been obvious. I've been thinking it's an issue of fairness. "You would do it with him but not me? That's not fair." That's what I thought it was about.


----------



## I Don't Know

firebelly1 said:


> So that's what it's about? You want your woman to really want you sexually, not just because she's horny but because she is wildly attracted to you. And really, you want to be the man she has been most wildly attracted to in her whole life. And the fact that she would perform a sex act with one guy and not you says to you that she was more attracted to him than you? He turned her on more than you?


That's one possibility. To guys this makes a lot of sense. Look at the stupid crap guys do for a "hot" girl. We think women are the same that they will do "stupid stuff" for the guy they are hot for.

Or she wanted to please him more than she wants to please you. And if that's the case....why? He treated you poorly so why in the world would you want to give into his every whim and want? What was it about him that drew that response from you regardless of the kind of person he was? (collective you, not you you)


----------



## Revamped

"I , too, see this a "Settling".. and very disheartening to anyone, male or female...we all want to feel we are the Most special in heart, soul and in the bedroom.. 

I guess I see it as so much LESS hurtful if sex was not involved.. but if it was.. it's much harder to swallow.. that's my mindset.. "

I don't look at it in the same context as you. For some people, settling would mean marrying anyone less than Brad Pitt. I would LOVE to marry Brad Pitt. But I can't. So I didn't. Is my husband handsome? Yes. Is he a movie star? No. I don't need him to be in order to rock my world.

Yes, I've had better sex with other men. But I didn't marry them. That isn't settling, that's reality.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

firebelly1 said:


> That's a good analogy because, yes, absolutely. If he was a cheap skate with me but lavished gifts upon his past gf, I would wonder if he was more into her than he is me. But I'm not one that has a hard time understanding a guy's disappointment that a woman won't perform sex acts that she would with someone else. And don't get me wrong, I would also take pride in knowing that sex with me is the best my SO has ever had.
> 
> My issue is with the repulsion at the number of guys a woman may have slept with and maybe the particular guys involved. The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting.
> 
> But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with. I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude.
> 
> I know guys don't want to hear that but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?
> 
> There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. But that may be okay with me, because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - lie your ass off? I don't know. What say you men?


What I would say is be honest and let the "SO" who you're not super attracted to, find a woman who is super attracted to him. It's not a knock. But why make a square peg fit a round hole.

You should find a guy you ARE attracted to, but also provides the other components you're looking for. 

Many women find stability etc attractive. My wife is one of those. She doesn't get the whole "bad boy" thing. We were talking one day and I made a joke about a bad boy and her response was "Oh yeah, I'm going to be attracted to a guy who's going to treat me badly, probably treat any kids I have with him poorly, not hold down a job, rumble off on his harley when I want quality time and probably not be faithful.....SIGN ME UP!"

She said "What defines sexy to me is when I get to see you standing, holding our son in the middle of the night feeding him a bottle. I get to see a sexy man in his shorts, arms bulging just a bit, loving and caring for my son. THAT IS SEXY"

PS have I ever mentioned just how much I love my wife.


----------



## bandit.45

firebelly1 said:


> Well that's eye-opening, honestly. Not sure why since that does seem to be what men are saying in the "my wife is LD" threads for the most part - that they feel their wives aren't attracted to them. But that it's THAT important to you, that is news to me.
> 
> And...it makes me want to take a look at myself. Not to settle for a man who's bones I don't want to jump. I may have been inclined toward that thinking that overall the pool of datable men my age is small. Men my age who are super sexy, even smaller pool. However, motivation for me to be in the best physical shape I can be in.


I'm one of those men who women settle for. It isn't fun. Please don't do this to your future SO.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I'm not that in to you sexually but you make $200k and you fix my computer and you're good with kids so I'm going to keep you...


----------



## firebelly1

Well...and here's the other thing for me. I was wildly attracted to my XH. Always have been. Didn't do me any good. He was sh*t in lots of other things. If I had to choose, I would much rather have a guy who's a good communicator and an enthusiastic lover who I may be mildly attracted to than the opposite. And EVERYONE gets old. There is some point at which no matter how much we work out, we're still old and there are a bazillion people on the planet more attractive than us. As a woman, I accept this. My SO WILL find other people more attractive than me. Just nature. So in the vein basing a relationship on the most wildly attractive person seems to be folly.


----------



## I Don't Know

firebelly1 said:


> It's coming together for me, but no, it hasn't been obvious. I've been thinking it's an issue of fairness. "You would do it with him but not me? That's not fair." That's what I thought it was about.


No, it's not about what's fair. OK, you know that moment in the heat of passion when just about anything seems like a great idea? Everything seems exciting and kinky and hot. Example would be going down on a woman after finishing inside her, that seems like a wonderful idea until 3 seconds after I actually cum. That's what we are thinking lead to guy A getting sex act Z. And if we can't get you to that place where it seems like a great idea again, it says something about how attracted you are to us.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> So that's what it's about? You want your woman to really want you sexually, not just because she's horny but because she is wildly attracted to you. And really, you want to be the man she has been most wildly attracted to in her whole life. And the fact that she would perform a sex act with one guy and not you says to you that she was more attracted to him than you? He turned her on more than you?


Of all of things with my wife that has bothered me the most, caused the most question, inspired the most insecurity is the fact that she kept going back to her ex husband for sex. This man who was physically, verbally, financially, sexually abusive, was a serial cheat, in and out of prison, a druggie, flaky employment...the poster child bad boy...he hurt her so deeply that she fvcked his son for revenge...and yet the sex with him must have been absolutely mind blowing to overcome ALL of that.

The situation I just described is not all that different from other girlfriend banged the bad boy scenarios out there.


----------



## ConanHub

Revamped said:


> "I , too, see this a "Settling".. and very disheartening to anyone, male or female...we all want to feel we are the Most special in heart, soul and in the bedroom..
> 
> I guess I see it as so much LESS hurtful if sex was not involved.. but if it was.. it's much harder to swallow.. that's my mindset.. "
> 
> I don't look at it in the same context as you. For some people, settling would mean marrying anyone less than Brad Pitt. I would LOVE to marry Brad Pitt. But I can't. So I didn't. Is my husband handsome? Yes. Is he a movie star? No. I don't need him to be in order to rock my world.
> 
> Yes, I've had better sex with other men. But I didn't marry them. That isn't settling, that's reality.


Sad in the extreme. I also believe unnecessary.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My not so great past has come up in a bad way*



Revamped said:


> "I , too, see this a "Settling".. and very disheartening to anyone, male or female...we all want to feel we are the Most special in heart, soul and in the bedroom..
> 
> I guess I see it as so much LESS hurtful if sex was not involved.. but if it was.. it's much harder to swallow.. that's my mindset.. "
> 
> I don't look at it in the same context as you. For some people, settling would mean marrying anyone less than Brad Pitt. I would LOVE to marry Brad Pitt. But I can't. So I didn't. Is my husband handsome? Yes. Is he a movie star? No. I don't need him to be in order to rock my world.
> 
> Yes, I've had better sex with other men. But I didn't marry them. That isn't settling, that's reality.


Do not utter these words to your H ever, unless you like trampling on his esteem.

Why would you "love" to marry brad Pitt? What has he ever done to meet your needs? Not even a fraction of what your H does for you. Does your H know that you've settled sexually in order to secure the safety and comfort he provides? In what ways do you think he feels like he settled to be with you? Do you think offering marriage is a trade off?


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Do you ever hear the way faithful wife talks about her husband being a sex God? If you are married to someone who does not talk about you that way then you have been settled for.


----------



## firebelly1

I Don't Know said:


> No, it's not about what's fair. OK, you know that moment in the heat of passion when just about anything seems like a great idea? Everything seems exciting and kinky and hot. Example would be going down on a woman after finishing inside her, that seems like a wonderful idea until 3 seconds after I actually cum. That's what we are thinking lead to guy A getting sex act Z. And if we can't get you to that place where it seems like a great idea again, it says something about how attracted you are to us.


I totally know what you are saying. I've gotten to that place before where I allowed something that I didn't think I wanted. But most assuredly that was about skill and not attraction.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

firebelly1 said:


> Well...and here's the other thing for me. I was wildly attracted to my XH. Always have been. Didn't do me any good. He was sh*t in lots of other things. If I had to choose, I would much rather have a guy who's a good communicator and an enthusiastic lover who I may be mildly attracted to than the opposite. And EVERYONE gets old. There is some point at which no matter how much we work out, we're still old and there are a bazillion people on the planet more attractive than us. As a woman, I accept this. My SO WILL find other people more attractive than me. Just nature. So in the vein basing a relationship on the most wildly attractive person seems to be folly.


It's not supposed to be an either/or situation but a both/and. I've said this before in other threads, but I want it all. I try to give my all too, so I try to be attractive, sexy, responsible, funny, etc. 

Also, sure as you age people who are in your dating sphere are aging too. A 50 year old woman will most likely not get a 30 something good looking guy. But so long as you keep your expectations realistic, you can find some special people. If you look like a greek god, you'll be able to find a greek goddess to be your mate. If you look more like quasimoto, then...

I guess the caveat is find the best person you can given your basket of assets that make you who you are.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> Well...and here's the other thing for me. I was wildly attracted to my XH. Always have been. Didn't do me any good. He was sh*t in lots of other things. If I had to choose, *I would much rather have a guy who's a good communicator and an enthusiastic lover who I may be mildly attracted to than the opposite.* And EVERYONE gets old. There is some point at which no matter how much we work out, we're still old and there are a bazillion people on the planet more attractive than us. As a woman, I accept this. My SO WILL find other people more attractive than me. Just nature. So in the vein basing a relationship on the most wildly attractive person seems to be folly.


A lot of men would not be ok with this.

Yes, people do get older, and looks fade, so why would someone feel ok even starting a relationship knowing that their partner was only mildly physically attracted to them?

This line of reasoning is precisely why many men feel used.


----------



## I Don't Know

firebelly1 said:


> I totally know what you are saying. I've gotten to that place before where I allowed something that I didn't think I wanted. But most assuredly that was about skill and not attraction.


Hmmm. So the guy who is technically skilled can get you more aroused than the guy you're more attracted to? I guess that makes sense, but I never thought of it like that.


----------



## firebelly1

Lon said:


> Do not utter these words to your H ever, unless you like trampling on his esteem.
> 
> Why would you "love" to marry brad Pitt? What has he ever done to meet your needs? Not even a fraction of what your H does for you. Does your H know that you've settled sexually in order to secure the safety and comfort he provides? In what ways do you think he feels like he settled to be with you? Do you think offering marriage is a trade off?


I think revamped is saying, look, I am wildly, physically attracted to men like Brad Pitt. If I wait to get married until I find someone who looks like Brad Pitt and who will find me equally attractive, I will be waiting a long time. Am I then settling if I marry a guy less attractive than Brad Pitt? 

You're right - attractiveness is more than just looks. Intelligence turns me on. Humor turns me on. Not just warm and fuzzy, like if we have a particularly good quipping session, I want to jump his bones. But if he has a huge beer gut, kills it. You're a guy, surely you get this.


----------



## firebelly1

I Don't Know said:


> Hmmm. So the guy who is technically skilled can get you more aroused than the guy you're more attracted to? I guess that makes sense, but I never thought of it like that.


Yes. Absolutely. And the guy I'm attracted to can have no skills whatsoever and that doesn't work out.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> I think revamped is saying, look, I am wildly, physically attracted to men like Brad Pitt. If I wait to get married until I find someone who looks like Brad Pitt and who will find me equally attractive,* I will be waiting a long time*. Am I then settling if I marry a guy less attractive than Brad Pitt?
> 
> You're right - attractiveness is more than just looks. Intelligence turns me on. Humor turns me on. Not just warm and fuzzy, like if we have a particularly good quipping session, I want to jump his bones. But if he has a huge beer gut, kills it. You're a guy, surely you get this.


Then wait, rather than potentially destroy another human being when he finds out you settled. Pure selfishness.


----------



## ConanHub

I get what Fire is saying. Mrs. Conan was nowhere near as freaky as many women before her. She did garner my love and respect almost immediately. To date and with passionate effort, she has become the freakiest woman I have ever been with and I have taken her to worlds she never knew existed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> A lot of men would not be ok with this.
> 
> Yes, people do get older, and looks fade, so why would someone feel ok even starting a relationship knowing that their partner was only mildly physically attracted to them?
> 
> This line of reasoning is precisely why many men feel used.


I would never have thought that approaching a relationship like I'm describing would make a man feel used. Really good information.


----------



## firebelly1

ConanHub said:


> I get what Fire is saying. Mrs. Conan was nowhere near as freaky as many women before her. She did garner my love and respect almost immediately. To date and with passionate effort, she has become the freakiest woman I have ever been with and I have taken her to worlds she never knew existed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But that is about skill and not attraction, right? Did you find her wildly attractive?


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> Then wait, rather than potentially destroy another human being when he finds out you settled. Pure selfishness.


I'm hearing you Sam. I won't settle for my own sake and his. But, MOST of us aren't Brad Pitt or Jennifer Aniston. If that is our physical ideal and we won't settle for less...? Lots of lonely people.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

firebelly1 said:


> Well that's eye-opening, honestly. Not sure why since that does seem to be what men are saying in the "my wife is LD" threads for the most part - that they feel their wives aren't attracted to them. But that it's THAT important to you, that is news to me.
> 
> And...it makes me want to take a look at myself. Not to settle for a man who's bones I don't want to jump. I may have been inclined toward that thinking that overall the pool of datable men my age is small. Men my age who are super sexy, even smaller pool. However, motivation for me to be in the best physical shape I can be in.


I also want to applaud you Firebelly, you bring an incredible gift to many here at TAM with your honesty. Some men may not like your answers, but that's their issue. You're being honest about who YOU are and what you look for. 

My responses earlier isn't saying one is right and one is wrong, it's just different and that's the key point. A very sexually experienced woman, who does it from a healthy mentality, is 100% in the right and she should look for a partner who can accept her 100% of who she is. There should NEVER be shame or judgement.


----------



## ConanHub

firebelly1 said:


> But that is about skill and not attraction, right? Did you find her wildly attractive?


I have dated the extremely beautiful. Mrs. Conan was very attractive to me but not a swimsuit model. The sex was not the best I had ever had but we changed that. I have a hard time thinking about her without getting an erection. No other woman on earth can claim that much sexual power with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> I totally know what you are saying. I've gotten to that place before where I allowed something that I didn't think I wanted. But most assuredly that was about skill and not attraction.


If I am remembering correctly, Faithful Wife has stated that neither she nor her husband are the most skilled, in a technical sense, lovers the other has had, yet hands down, far and away they are the BEST lovers either has had. Sort of the exact opposite of what you are describing.

My wife and I are sort of on the same page as FW and her husband. I have no doubts that I am the most skilled and best lover my has has ever had. She on the other hand is not the most technically skilled that I have had, but damn, she just has that IT factor that makes her far and away the best lover I have ever dreamed of having. It's that intangible chemistry, that spark.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> I'm hearing you Sam. I won't settle for my own sake and his. But, MOST of us aren't Brad Pitt or Jennifer Aniston. If that is our physical ideal and we won't settle for less...? *Lots of lonely people*.


Maybe a lot more happy people too.

Look, when you strip all the fame and fortune, makeup, lighting, script writers away, all the things that make the celebs what they are, a managed fake image masquerading as an ideal, there are a TON of people out there, men and women who are just as, if not more physically attractive than anyone on screen, stage, or field.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

firebelly1 said:


> So that's what it's about? You want your woman to really want you sexually, not just because she's horny but because she is wildly attracted to you. And really, you want to be the man she has been most wildly attracted to in her whole life. And the fact that she would perform a sex act with one guy and not you says to you that she was more attracted to him than you? He turned her on more than you?


At face value...yes.

Now the sex act component is more complicated. I completely understand that my wife has tried things in the past that, afterward, she didn't like and wouldn't want to try again. Now if she did it with EVERY, or even MOST, partners...that's different.

She's still a human being who tries things and finds things they like and don't like. It's the old, "how do you know you don't like it if you don't try it?" mantra. I'd also buy into an "experimental" stage. That happens as well. But all of that is figured out through honest and open communication. I wouldn't accept her being a freak with every guy before me and then I get little miss vanilla because she "changed" (while also not being able to define said change).


----------



## Almostrecovered

shoulda just told Chris that a-hole has a small penis and that's why you did anal with him since you couldn't feel it anyways.


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> If I am remembering correctly, Faithful Wife has stated that neither she nor her husband are the most skilled, in a technical sense, lovers the other has had, yet hands down, far and away they are the BEST lovers either has had. Sort of the exact opposite of what you are describing.
> 
> My wife and I are sort of on the same page as FW and her husband. I have no doubts that I am the most skilled and best lover my has has ever had. She on the other hand is not the most technically skilled that I have had, but damn, she just has that IT factor that makes her far and away the best lover I have ever dreamed of having. It's that intangible chemistry, that spark.


I totally get that. Maybe that's part of what I'm saying. My theoretical SO might not be the most skilled lover I've ever had. He might not be the most physically attractive man I've ever been with. But he might still be the best lover I've ever had because of his approach. 

Still...I think that's different than what you are talking about. I'll say this...right now I have a FWB who I see occasionally who, when I first met him I thought "I would do ANYTHING for this guy." There is just this animal magnetism, if you will, that draws me to him. He is not the most visually, physically attractive guy I've ever been with. He's not the most skilled lover I've ever had. But there is a combination of things that just makes me go ZING. I am really physically attracted to him. Tattoos. Nipple rings. He's tall and has great hair. Great c*ck. I do want to eat him up physically and undeniably, that is part of the zing. But it's also the way he makes me laugh. The conversations we have. How considerate he is of me. I am not in love with him. I couldn't ever see us having a life together because I think he would drive me crazy as a mate.

Contrast that with a guy I've referred to as Professor who I will occasionally admit I am in love with. I don't feel the same ZING for him that I do FWB but I am physically attracted to him. The few times we had sex, it was great. I feel an emotional connection to him that I don't and haven't with anyone else. 

So...I think what I'm hearing is that were I to choose either of these guys, I would be settling? I need to hold out for emotional connection AND ZING?


----------



## Buddy400

firebelly1 said:


> This is so true. And maybe why we cross wires so much on sexual things. If my guy has sex with a girl that he didn't love, we can get past it. If he loved her, we are done. A couple guys in another thread were also saying they would rather be the best sex of a woman's life than her greatest love. Is that true? So completely opposite of what a woman values.


That's not it, at least not for me. Men consider sex from a woman as something special that they do for good men. If they did it for a lot of people (especially casually with a**holes) then it doesn't mean much when they do it with us.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

firebelly1 said:


> I'm hearing you Sam. I won't settle for my own sake and his. But, MOST of us aren't Brad Pitt or Jennifer Aniston. If that is our physical ideal and we won't settle for less...? Lots of lonely people.


But how many, except the ultimately selfish, date for physical attraction alone.

Attraction, as is being discussed here, is so much MORE than just the picture of the person. 

My wife is the most beautiful and sexiest woman on the planet..to me. Because I see her for SO MUCH more than her appearance. If I went blind....she'd STILL be the most beautiful and sexiest woman on the planet.

Things like Peoples sexiest man or maxim's hot 100 are the appreciation of physical beauty. A gay man can still look at a woman and recognize she's beautiful. Women do it all the time (judge the appearance of other women). But that's different than attraction.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly, would you be ok knowing that your SO thought you made a mean sammich, a wizard with the sewing machine, a regular stand up comic, smart as a whip, but only found you mildly attractive? Your boobs sagged a bit more than he preferred, your belly was a bit squishier than those ONS's he had before marrying you, those stretch marks on your thighs he always avoids looking at or touching. He still has sex with you because he finds you mildly attractive, but boy all those other things sure make up for it?


----------



## Buddy400

breeze said:


> Be adventurous sexually as a woman and you're used by the men you are with and despised by the men you will be with. Yep, and this thread pretty much follows that.


Be adventurous sexually with men you value and I think most guys here would consider that a virtue.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Revamped said:


> "I , too, see this a "Settling".. and very disheartening to anyone, male or female...we all want to feel we are the Most special in heart, soul and in the bedroom..
> 
> I guess I see it as so much LESS hurtful if sex was not involved.. but if it was.. it's much harder to swallow.. that's my mindset.. "
> 
> *I don't look at it in the same context as you. For some people, settling would mean marrying anyone less than Brad Pitt. I would LOVE to marry Brad Pitt. But I can't. So I didn't.* Is my husband handsome? Yes. Is he a movie star? No. I don't need him to be in order to rock my world.
> 
> Yes, I've had better sex with other men. But I didn't marry them. That isn't settling, that's reality.


We all see through our own lenses , right...I wouldn't want Brad Pitt.. I mean that. anyone who is THAT RICH and FAMOUS would not work for me...I would despise the lifestyle...I'm more of a simple woman.. would HATE the fast paced, not having enough time for each other...

It's all in what fulfills a person.. I am more geared an "old time Romantic".. 

There was once a female poster here who asked who would want Johnny Depp if he just worked in a Grocery Store over the Movie Star Johnny Depp.. .like she wanted to GAG on the poor guy.. what a laugh.....I had to raise my hand on that.. I would choose small town Love ... makin' it together over Hollywoods version of Love..now to me that is a joke!... how they hop in & out of bed with all their new co-stars... 

I guess it all matters to what is most imporant to a Person.. what one dreams of.. if I could experience those 1sts together with a man who wanted me as much as I was crazy for him.... that means more to me over money, status and fame.. but that's good.. cause we're not well to do people!... but we've done pretty good considering.


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> Maybe a lot more happy people too.
> 
> Look, when you strip all the fame and fortune, makeup, lighting, script writers away, all the things that make the celebs what they are, a managed fake image masquerading as an ideal, there are a TON of people out there, men and women who are just as, if not more physically attractive than anyone on screen, stage, or field.


All due respect...you know that because you grew up around models and that was the pool you got to choose from. And you were eligible to pick from that pool because you are equally attractive.


----------



## Buddy400

samyeagar said:


> I'm not sure I would characterize it as she is slvtty, but fair game certainly. If she is into casual sex, that sends a message that she is not looking for a relationship at that point in time, and is a logical partner for a man who isn't looking for one either, a logical hookup. Nothing wrong with that from either person, but certain behaviors tend to attract certain types of people.
> 
> It's no secret the bumps in the road my wife and I have had with regards to her sexual past. There is one exchange in particular that I remember very well. She pointed out that none of the past guys seemed to have any issues with her past and the things she'd done, and so she had always just talked completely freely and openly about things. Being with me was a huge learning curve for her. I had to wonder if there was some connection between the mindest of these guys not being bothered by it, and the way they treated her. As much as she didn't like it, her continued behaviors did seem to attract a certain type of guy.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> I totally get that. Maybe that's part of what I'm saying. My theoretical SO might not be the most skilled lover I've ever had. He might not be the most physically attractive man I've ever been with. But he might still be the best lover I've ever had because of his approach.
> 
> Still...I think that's different than what you are talking about. I'll say this...right now I have a FWB who I see occasionally who, when I first met him I thought "I would do ANYTHING for this guy." There is just this animal magnetism, if you will, that draws me to him. He is not the most visually, physically attractive guy I've ever been with. He's not the most skilled lover I've ever had. But there is a combination of things that just makes me go ZING. I am really physically attracted to him. Tattoos. Nipple rings. He's tall and has great hair. Great c*ck. I do want to eat him up physically and undeniably, that is part of the zing. But it's also the way he makes me laugh. The conversations we have. How considerate he is of me. I am not in love with him. I couldn't ever see us having a life together because I think he would drive me crazy as a mate.
> 
> Contrast that with a guy I've referred to as Professor who I will occasionally admit I am in love with. I don't feel the same ZING for him that I do FWB but I am physically attracted to him. The few times we had sex, it was great. I feel an emotional connection to him that I don't and haven't with anyone else.
> 
> *So...I think what I'm hearing is that were I to choose either of these guys, I would be settling? I need to hold out for emotional connection AND ZING*?


Yes. 

It would be very unfair to both of them if they were looking for the whole package, and you settled, allowing them to think they had found it.

For me, not only do I want the emotional AND the physical spark, I NEED the same in return.


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> firebelly, would you be ok knowing that your SO thought you made a mean sammich, a wizard with the sewing machine, a regular stand up comic, smart as a whip, but only found you mildly attractive? Your boobs sagged a bit more than he preferred, your belly was a bit squishier than those ONS's he had before marrying you, those stretch marks on your thighs he always avoids looking at or touching. He still has sex with you because he finds you mildly attractive, but boy all those other things sure make up for it?


No.  But I do have stretch marks. My boobs do sag. Thank you childbirth and "breast feeding is best" advocates. So to some extent, that IS what I'm facing. 

My current FWB said the other day "Wow, you must have been a knockout when you were 18." Um, yeah. And I won't ever look that good again. But, if my SO finds me sexy in spite of those things, awesome.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> All due respect...you know that because you grew up around models and that was the pool you got to choose from. And you were eligible to pick from that pool because you are equally attractive.


I do understand that, and I have a different perspective, am coming from a different place than many others.

I don't think I'm all that far off though. I see absolutely beautiful women every day at work, on the street, at the store.


----------



## Jellybeans

TammyAB said:


> Chris wanted to know if i thought that guy was sexy even though i didn't like him. Basically I said at the time i didn't know what i wanted and just went with things. Now that I'm with Chris everything is just so much better.
> 
> I know he saw that I was sincere cause he hugged me for a long time. I for sure told him that I am totally attracted to him because I am! Then he sort of got angry at the jerk first for taking advantage and then for bragging. Chris feels kind of "small" as he put it knowing that the a-hole is blabbing **** about what he did. Chris doesn't know how to face his friends and he figures everybody knows. I don't know how to deal with that so if anybody has suggestions please give 'em.



I think Chris was initially hurt because 1. he didn't know you were seeing other people, 2. he probably wasn't seeing anyone else and 3. his feelings/ego got hurt when he heard someone talking about how they did XYZ with you. He was feeling territorial. 

Had you only been seeing him and thought he was only seeing you and found out, in random conversation with people that someone was saying they did XYZ with him, you would probably feel as he did. Tends to happen when we like someone.

Leave the past in the past. 

Hope you guys can work it out!


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> No.  But I do have stretch marks. My boobs do sag. Thank you childbirth and "breast feeding is best" advocates. So to some extent, that IS what I'm facing.
> 
> My current FWB said the other day "Wow, you must have been a knockout when you were 18." Um, yeah. And I won't ever look that good again. *But, if my SO finds me sexy in spite of those things, awesome*.


For sure. But what you were describing was your hypothetical SO being good enough. Would you be ok knowing that your hypothetical SO merely found you good enough to get the job done? Knowing that up front, and knowing that physically, you are going to continue to deteriorate, how secure would you be in that?


----------



## Faithful Wife

WorkingOnMe said:


> Do you ever hear the way faithful wife talks about her husband being a sex God? If you are married to someone who does not talk about you that way then you have been settled for.


Sex isn't as important to some people as it is to me. I wouldn't settle for less than a sex god. For some, both men and women, sex is just a nice addition to other qualities they love about each other. So even though this is my priority, if it isn't for someone else, then they aren't going to have great sex in mind as one of their top needs.

In other words, some people, both men and women, won't care about this issue.


----------



## bandit.45

firebelly1 said:


> I totally get that. Maybe that's part of what I'm saying. My theoretical SO might not be the most skilled lover I've ever had. He might not be the most physically attractive man I've ever been with. But he might still be the best lover I've ever had because of his approach.
> 
> Still...I think that's different than what you are talking about. I'll say this...right now I have a FWB who I see occasionally who, when I first met him I thought "I would do ANYTHING for this guy." There is just this animal magnetism, if you will, that draws me to him. He is not the most visually, physically attractive guy I've ever been with. He's not the most skilled lover I've ever had. But there is a combination of things that just makes me go ZING. I am really physically attracted to him. Tattoos. Nipple rings. He's tall and has great hair. Great c*ck. I do want to eat him up physically and undeniably, that is part of the zing. But it's also the way he makes me laugh. The conversations we have. How considerate he is of me. I am not in love with him. I couldn't ever see us having a life together because I think he would drive me crazy as a mate.
> 
> Contrast that with a guy I've referred to as Professor who I will occasionally admit I am in love with. I don't feel the same ZING for him that I do FWB but I am physically attracted to him. The few times we had sex, it was great. I feel an emotional connection to him that I don't and haven't with anyone else.
> 
> So...I think what I'm hearing is that were I to choose either of these guys, I would be settling? I need to hold out for emotional connection AND ZING?


Too bad you can't carry them around in a toolbelt huh?

This is why women have affairs. They marry Mr Emotionally Satisfying and seek out Mr Zing for hot monkey sex. 

Not you. But I do think some women think they are entitled to have several men, each who satisfies a different need.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Sex isn't as important to some people as it is to me. I wouldn't settle for less than a sex god. For some, both men and women, sex is just a nice addition to other qualities they love about each other. So even though this is my priority, if it isn't for someone else, then they aren't going to have great sex in mind as one of their top needs.
> 
> *In other words, some people, both men and women, won't care about this issue*.


And the problems start when it's not important and one settles, and it is to the other and they don't know they've been settled for.

Basic compatibility.


----------



## Buddy400

firebelly1 said:


> The truth is, I may have been more sexually attracted to a bad boy than my current, good boy SO. *That FACT that he's a bad boy is exciting.*
> 
> But my (theoretical) SO may be the best man I've ever been with in all kinds of ways. He just may not be the best sex I've ever had, or the most attractive man I've ever been with. I choose to be with him because all the good things tip the scales. AND...because I think sexual skill can be improved with the right can-do attitude.
> 
> *I know guys don't want to hear that* but we're here to learn the truth not what we want to be the truth, right?
> 
> There is a difference between attraction and being in to someone, and sexual skill. Anybody can learn the latter and therefore become the best lover anyone has ever had in terms of skill. But the chemistry that happens where you just want to EAT THAT PERSON UP, that can't be faked or learned. I may have felt that for someone in my past and don't feel it for my (theoretical) SO. But that may be okay with me, because again, all the other things tip the balance. So, I would imagine the conversation with the man is different in each case? First one - teach him. Second one - *lie your ass off*? I don't know. What say you men?


Yes, men are consumed by the fact that women think bad boys are more exciting. And we're *pissed off *about it (unless we're bad boys ourselves). We feel that we have to treat women badly in order to attract them (which is at least partially true). SO, never, ever tell your good guy this.

You're right. You are saying what women think. But, you can't let guys know that's how you think. Don't lie about anything that can be proven. But, if he's not the best sexual partner you've ever had, never tell him that. 

Men don't value women thinking that they're nice. That's the last thing we want to hear.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> If I am remembering correctly, Faithful Wife has stated that neither she nor her husband are the most skilled, in a technical sense, lovers the other has had, yet hands down, far and away they are the BEST lovers either has had. Sort of the exact opposite of what you are describing.
> 
> My wife and I are sort of on the same page as FW and her husband. I have no doubts that I am the most skilled and best lover my has has ever had. She on the other hand is not the most technically skilled that I have had, but damn, she just has that IT factor that makes her far and away the best lover I have ever dreamed of having. It's that intangible chemistry, that spark.


I think I was not the most skilled lover he's had when we met...I think now, I am the most skilled lover he's had (after 12 years practice together!)

He's far and away the best skilled partner I've never had, in the beginning and now.

We're both also physically wildly attracted to each other.

However...we have huge marriage issues, like many people. So for all the attraction and great sex, it really doesn't make all other issues just disappear or anything.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

firebelly1 said:


> I totally get that. Maybe that's part of what I'm saying. My theoretical SO might not be the most skilled lover I've ever had. He might not be the most physically attractive man I've ever been with. But he might still be the best lover I've ever had because of his approach.
> 
> Still...I think that's different than what you are talking about. I'll say this...right now I have a FWB who I see occasionally who, when I first met him I thought "I would do ANYTHING for this guy." There is just this animal magnetism, if you will, that draws me to him. He is not the most visually, physically attractive guy I've ever been with. He's not the most skilled lover I've ever had. But there is a combination of things that just makes me go ZING. I am really physically attracted to him. Tattoos. Nipple rings. He's tall and has great hair. Great c*ck. I do want to eat him up physically and undeniably, that is part of the zing. But it's also the way he makes me laugh. The conversations we have. How considerate he is of me. I am not in love with him. I couldn't ever see us having a life together because I think he would drive me crazy as a mate.
> 
> Contrast that with a guy I've referred to as Professor who I will occasionally admit I am in love with. I don't feel the same ZING for him that I do FWB but I am physically attracted to him. The few times we had sex, it was great. I feel an emotional connection to him that I don't and haven't with anyone else.
> 
> *So...I think what I'm hearing is that were I to choose either of these guys, I would be settling? I need to hold out for emotional connection AND ZING?*


If you want to be happy, then yes.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> And the problems start when it's not important and one settles, and it is to the other and they don't know they've been settled for.
> 
> Basic compatibility.


I would say it is up to each spouse to discuss how important these things are and be honest upfront and make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.

So, for a guy who wants to be the sex god to his woman, are you saying this to her and telling her you'd never settle for less?

If not, then how would she know that? As I said, some guys wouldn't care. It isn't a universal need.


----------



## Buddy400

SimplyAmorous said:


> I guess I want to say not all of the Good Guys finish Last ! If more women would reject the Bad guys outright, I believe more men would have incentive to treat women better.. but they see little benefit.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> *I think I was not the most skilled lover he's had when we met...I think now, I am the most skilled lover he's had (after 12 years practice together!)
> 
> He's far and away the best skilled partner I've never had, in the beginning and now.*
> 
> We're both also physically wildly attracted to each other.
> 
> However...we have huge marriage issues, like many people. So for all the attraction and great sex, it really doesn't make all other issues just disappear or anything.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Ahh, got it. That is pretty much my wife and I exactly then.


----------



## firebelly1

samyeagar said:


> For sure. But what you were describing was your hypothetical SO being good enough. Would you be ok knowing that your hypothetical SO merely found you good enough to get the job done? Knowing that up front, and knowing that physically, you are going to continue to deteriorate, how secure would you be in that?


No - I wouldn't be okay with my SO thinking I'm just attractive enough to get the job done. I still think I need to be realistic that I am not going to be any man's physical ideal. And I am resigned to the fact that no man my age is going to be my physical ideal either, but as my story maybe illustrates, it doesn't matter so much because the ZING isn't just about physical appearance.


----------



## Buddy400

Revamped said:


> Yes, I've had better sex with other men. But I didn't marry them. That isn't settling, that's reality.


If I was your husband and you told me that, I'd be crushed.

I'd probably suspect that it was the case, but I would hate to have my suspicions confirmed.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> I would say it is up to each spouse to discuss how important these things are and be honest upfront and make sure you are getting what you think you are getting.
> 
> *So, for a guy who wants to be the sex god to his woman, are you saying this to her and telling her you'd never settle for less?
> 
> If not, then how would she know that?* As I said, some guys wouldn't care. It isn't a universal need.


Most of the time, it's never explicitly said by either men or women. It is a desire kept to ones self, and most people can pick up on whether or not their partner has the level of raw physical attraction that they want. People know if they are being settled for or not.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Most of the time, it's never explicitly said by either men or women. It is a desire kept to ones self, and most people can pick up on whether or not their partner has the level of raw physical attraction that they want. People know if they are being settled for or not.


If they know they are being settled for, why do they go through with the wedding and then whine about it for eternity and blame their spouse for all their problems? :scratchhead:

If you marry someone you know settled for you, that's on YOU.

It was definitely explicitly stated by my husband and myself that we would never be with someone who settled for us, that the sex and attraction had to remain important to each other throughout the relationship. This is how two highly sexual people negotiate that deal. If a spouse can't speak up this way, I'd say maybe it wasn't that important to them.


----------



## Buddy400

firebelly1 said:


> I would never have thought that approaching a relationship like I'm describing would make a man feel used. Really good information.


I'm more practical. I think it's possible to find someone with the qualities you describe as long as you act like new guy is your "sex God" and never let him think otherwise (and, with enough practice, maybe he will be that).


----------



## firebelly1

Buddy400 said:


> I'm more practical. I think it's possible to find someone with the qualities you describe as long as you act like new guy is your "sex God" and never let him think otherwise (and, with enough practice, maybe he will be that).


Again, a difference between attraction and skill. I'm PERFECTLY okay with teaching an old dog new tricks. (Other than kissing. I don't know if you can really teach someone to be a good kisser.) I don't think it's settling to be with someone who lacks the skills of past lovers if they are willing to learn. And I can honestly say he is my sex god if he's willing to study hard at the altar of my vagina. 

But you can't fake attraction. I can't honestly say he is my "sex god" in the sense that I want to eat him up if I don't. And to that end, I think some of the advice I'm getting is good advice - don't settle for someone I'm not wildly attracted to.


----------



## Faithful Wife

firebelly1 said:


> But you can't fake attraction. I can't honestly say he is my "sex god" in the sense that I want to eat him up if I don't. And to that end, I think some of the advice I'm getting is good advice - *don't settle for someone I'm not wildly attracted to*.


:smthumbup:


----------



## samyeagar

This all reminded me of another conversation my wife and I had a while back, before we were even engaged. There is a particular ex boyfriend of hers that routinely came up in conversation, mainly brought up by her kids. I let her know that I was about sick of hearing about that guy. She said she couldn't really control what the kids brought up, but she would try and redirect as much as possible. She added...if it would make me feel any better, if she and I ever broke up, imagine how the next guy would feel as I would be brought up as the guy who she was always having sex with. You know what...that did make me feel better.


----------



## firebelly1

You know I'm finding myself kind of relieved that you all are giving me "permission" to do that. Some part of myself thought it would be shallow to actively seek out someone I'm wildly attracted to. Learn new stuff about yourself everyday.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> If they know they are being settled for, why do they go through with the wedding and then whine about it for eternity and blame their spouse for all their problems? :scratchhead:
> 
> If you marry someone you know settled for you, that's on YOU.
> 
> *It was definitely explicitly stated by my husband and myself that we would never be with someone who settled for us, that the sex and attraction had to remain important to each other throughout the relationship. This is how two highly sexual people negotiate that deal. If a spouse can't speak up this way, I'd say maybe it wasn't that important to them*.


This is exactly how my wife and I did it.

The problems really arise when one partner suspects they are being settled for, and the other won't admit that they settled. That is on both of them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> This is exactly how my wife and I did it.
> 
> The problems really arise when one partner suspects they are being settled for, and the other won't admit that they settled. That is on both of them.



Nope it is on the one who suspects it and won't ask.


----------



## Faithful Wife

firebelly1 said:


> You know I'm finding myself kind of relieved that you all are giving me "permission" to do that. Some part of myself thought it would be shallow to actively seek out someone I'm wildly attracted to. Learn new stuff about yourself everyday.


Like I said earlier though, the fact is, even if you make sure the attraction and sex are there, it doesn't protect you from other relationship issues. I think some of the men here think their ONLY relationship issue is sexual...when clearly there is a lot more wrong than that.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Faithful Wife said:


> If they know they are being settled for, why do they go through with the wedding and then whine about it for eternity and blame their spouse for all their problems? :scratchhead:
> 
> If you marry someone you know settled for you, that's on YOU.
> 
> It was definitely explicitly stated by my husband and myself that we would never be with someone who settled for us, that the sex and attraction had to remain important to each other throughout the relationship. This is how two highly sexual people negotiate that deal. If a spouse can't speak up this way, I'd say maybe it wasn't that important to them.


If I was starting over today at 44, I'd certainly do things differently and I wouldn't allow myself to be settled for. I'd be slow to get into relationships and quick to break up if my requirements weren't met. But for many people in longer term relationships, things just weren't the same decades ago. I met my wife as a teenager with nowhere near the knowledge and experience needed to make informed choices (but as all 19 year olds, I sure thought I knew). It does seem a little disingenuous to me to apply the standards of your considerable experience to kids getting married. And it would be a cop out to simply say that they shouldn't get married that young, because the fact is, they do.


----------



## Faithful Wife

WorkingOnMe said:


> If I was starting over today at 44, I'd certainly do things differently and I wouldn't allow myself to be settled for. I'd be slow to get into relationships and quick to break up if my requirements weren't met. But for many people in longer term relationships, things just weren't the same decades ago. I met my wife as a teenager with nowhere near the knowledge and experience needed to make informed choices (but as all 19 year olds, I sure thought I knew). It does seem a little disingenuous to me to apply the standards of your considerable experience to kids getting married. And it would be a cop out to simply say that they shouldn't get married that young, because the fact is, they do.


Yet you imply the same kids should "know better" and never marry anyone they don't think is a sex god.


----------



## firebelly1

Faithful Wife said:


> Like I said earlier though, the fact is, even if you make sure the attraction and sex are there, it doesn't protect you from other relationship issues. I think some of the men here think their ONLY relationship issue is sexual...when clearly there is a lot more wrong than that.


Yep. Totally get that. Like I said, I WAS wildly attracted to my XH. Still divorced. But, admittedly, I wouldn't have ever said he was a sex god since he only wanted to do it once a month and when he did it was the same routine every time. Didn't even know I could orgasm multiple times until after the divorce. So even wild attraction in and of itself doesn't equal sex god. Gotta be a combination of I want to jump his bones and his approach.


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> You know I'm finding myself kind of relieved that you all are giving me "permission" to do that. Some part of myself thought it would be shallow to actively seek out someone I'm wildly attracted to. Learn new stuff about yourself everyday.


The word "shallow", more often than not, is yet another shaming technique.

I have never given a damn if people call me shallow, or really any of those other words. I want what I want, and I'm not going to let someone else shame me into settling for less.

And really, let them all call you shallow all they want, let them scream it from the roof tops if they want...all the while you and the man you are wildly attracted to, who is wildly attracted to you are having all the sex, and wonderful relationship they are denying themselves...all because of they are afraid of people calling them a stupid word.


----------



## firebelly1

WorkingOnMe said:


> If I was starting over today at 44, I'd certainly do things differently and I wouldn't allow myself to be settled for. I'd be slow to get into relationships and quick to break up if my requirements weren't met. But for many people in longer term relationships, things just weren't the same decades ago. I met my wife as a teenager with nowhere near the knowledge and experience needed to make informed choices (but as all 19 year olds, I sure thought I knew). It does seem a little disingenuous to me to apply the standards of your considerable experience to kids getting married. And it would be a cop out to simply say that they shouldn't get married that young, because the fact is, they do.


It would be nice though, wouldn't it, if sex education didn't just include instructions on how to use a condom but also included how to talk about sex, right?


----------



## firebelly1

Would you all then please give me permission to work out solely for the purpose of being sexually attractive? Fvck being healthy. I just want to be HOT.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Nope it is on the one who suspects it and won't ask.


Point taken, but the bit about the other not admitting that they settled kind of implies the other asked


----------



## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> Would you all then please give me permission to work out solely for the purpose of being sexually attractive? Fvck being healthy. I just want to be HOT.


I'll even give you permission to wear that little dress and fvck me heels to get guys to look at you...without having to say that you did it only to feel good about yourself


----------



## firebelly1

Thanks for the external validation Sam!


----------



## SimplyAmorous

firebelly1 said:


> It would be nice though, wouldn't it, if sex education didn't just include instructions on how to use a condom but also included how to talk about sex, right?


AND OUR EMOTIONS...what the act means to us.. our hopes & dreams.. Ok.. I'll stop.....

Young people really need to question their own motives in their youth, what they REALLY want out of life, know their love languages, be vulnerable with each other, how do they handle conflict, do they agree on financial matters, kids, the list is soooo vastly long.. *its all important*.. 

I feel too many have sex too quickly.. it blinds them to the other aspects of the relationship, by then they are in too deep.. and well.. they marry..and they were never compatible to begin with...it's very sad.


----------



## Faithful Wife

firebelly1 said:


> Would you all then please give me permission to work out solely for the purpose of being sexually attractive? Fvck being healthy. I just want to be HOT.


Being healthy is just a bonus. Being HOT is the fun part.


----------



## Faithful Wife

samyeagar said:


> Most of the time, it's never explicitly said by either men or women. *It is a desire kept to ones self, and most people can pick up on whether or not their partner has the level of raw physical attraction that they want*. People know if they are being settled for or not.


Sam...this is what you said that I was replying to.

You specifically said it is a desire kept to oneself.

If that is the case, it is on you. You cannot expect your SO to be a mind reader. If it is important to you to feel you are your partner's sex god, you better say it upfront. If you don't, it is on you.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam...this is what you said that I was replying to.
> 
> You specifically said it is a desire kept to oneself.
> 
> If that is the case, it is on you. You cannot expect your SO to be a mind reader. If it is important to you to feel you are your partner's sex god, you better say it upfront. If you don't, it is on you.


Except this is what you quoted...




samyeagar said:


> This is exactly how my wife and I did it.
> 
> The problems really arise when one partner suspects they are being settled for, and the other won't admit that they settled. That is on both of them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

But you said "suspect" they were settled for. To me this does not imply they asked.

The point is: TELL people what you require in a relationship, or you won't get it.


----------



## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> But you said "suspect" they were settled for. To me this does not imply they asked.
> 
> *The point is: TELL people what you require in a relationship, or you won't get it*.


Semantics and missed implications due to the written word 

This we now, and always have completely agreed upon.

My wife and I had many long conversations early on where we basically laundry listed everything we wanted, didn't want. From politics, to religion, to kids, to cooking and cleaning, to finances, to sex...nothing was left off the table.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

firebelly1 said:


> No.  But I do have stretch marks. My boobs do sag.


Another common misconception is that those things turn us off and that only títs like granite will do.

Not so. With a parner comfortable in her own skin, quests for the lost boobs provide invaluable entertainment. Like stretch marks, they provide tactile experiences a younger model can't provide.

At the end of the scale, a younger woman's small-sized, firm boobs render her unable to provide the variety of a 'tìtwànk',,, then the lack of experience, etc, etc.

Tis folly to think Utopia can be found only in some notion of 'visual perfection'.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My not so great past has come up in a bad way*



firebelly1 said:


> No - I wouldn't be okay with my SO thinking I'm just attractive enough to get the job done. I still think I need to be realistic that I am not going to be any man's physical ideal. And I am resigned to the fact that no man my age is going to be my physical ideal either, but as my story maybe illustrates, it doesn't matter so much because the ZING isn't just about physical appearance.


Exactly, the zing is not about physical appearance, or even necessarily initial attraction, rather the total sexual attraction, and the zing is what makes a woman want to take it any way her lover can give it, isn't it?


----------



## samyeagar

Lon said:


> Exactly, the zing is not about physical appearance, or even necessarily initial attraction, rather the total sexual attraction, and *the zing is what makes a woman want to take it any way her lover can give it, isn't it?*


And makes her want to give it back to him in spades...


----------



## firebelly1

Lon said:


> Exactly, the zing is not about physical appearance, or even necessarily initial attraction, rather the total sexual attraction, and the zing is what makes a woman want to take it any way her lover can give it, isn't it?


Yes - it is the zing. Like I said, when I met my ZING guy I even had the thought when I was away from him, "I would do anything he says."

Lest anyone take this the wrong way, I have good boundaries in bed. I'm not into pain or humiliation and nip anything in the bud that happens in the bedroom that I don't like, even with ZING guy. But, yeah, I've SAID I don't like to get spanked. He has respected that boundary but the last time he brought it up - that maybe he could try some light spanking I was like "Yeah! Or hard. Let's see how it goes."

We have fully threadjacked this thing, haven't we? So, to go full circle, what I'm describing is the problem, isn't it? Chris thinks Tammy felt the Zing with as*shole guy and not with him and he thinks that's why she would do anal with as*shole and not with him? I may be contradicting myself here, but zing isn't the only reason Tammy might have done that. There are a variety of other reasons so let's not judge her based on my anecdotal evidence.


----------



## Thor

TammyAB said:


> Then he sort of got angry at the jerk first for taking advantage and then for bragging. Chris feels kind of "small" as he put it knowing that the a-hole is blabbing **** about what he did. Chris doesn't know how to face his friends and he figures everybody knows. I don't know how to deal with that so if anybody has suggestions please give 'em.


For a man, it is humiliating to find out after the fact that someone he associated with has had sex with his wife/gf. Chris had some social contact with the jerk, then found out later you'd had a relationship with him. That's bad. A man should be told well ahead of time if there is someone he might have contact with that you've had sex with. Chris should know the names of men you've slept with who are still within any social or professional circles of either of you.

Sometimes a surprise happens which you can't predict, in which case you tell him asap that this guy was someone you had a relationship with. Your past should be accurately described to Chris so he knows enough not to be shocked if you tell him that Joe you just bumped into in the grocery store was a guy you had a relationship with.

This kind of open honesty will build and reinforce Chris' trust in you. The fact that you share with him your past will prevent him from being surprised like he was, and when he does bump into somebody he will feel "I already know about this and it is no big deal".

This event with the jerk blabbing is a double whammy on the humiliation for Chris because his other friends knew about the kinky sex when he did not.

Own your past, and be honest about your thoughts and feelings then and now. Don't lie to Chris. You don't have to be brutally graphic about your past, but you do have to give him an accurate understanding of your past. If you had 3-somes, if you had one-night-stands, if you had public sex at a party, etc, those sorts of things he needs to know about from you.

I suggest you offer to tell him everything, and perhaps even offer a vague description such as "I had several boyfriends and did some things which weren't plain vanilla". But also remind him that what is heard cannot be unheard, so at each step he should consider how much detail he wants.

Chris sounds like a Nice Guy, and he also sounds like someone who expected you had been more open and honest with him than you actually had been. The antidote is for you to be as openly honest with him as possible. Look up "Radical Honesty", I think it is what Chris needs from you.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

Maybe this only applies to people who live in small towns but if you do, it's pretty much a given that soon enough you'll run into a new partners exes.

It's worse for young people cuz there are only a handful of places deemed 'kewl' enough for them to go. They ALL know who's dating who and who's been with who.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Lon

When I first started dating my ex she revealed to me that she messed around with a guy we both knew from work... A guy that wasnt a close friend but whom I had hung around and partied with a few times, but never had been around at the same time as my ex, in fact I didn't even know they ever had spent any time together. I didn't find this out until after her and I had been dating for about a month and during that time and ever since I have never seen the guy. The worst part (at that time) was that he was married.

My ex seemed completely remorseful about messing around with a married man and was very afraid I would reject her for it, but revealed it to me anyhow. Point is I never felt threatened by this, though I think it would be awkward if I ever run into him again.

In hindsight, I was a fool, he offered something I couldn't (lets say "swagger") and in time my ex decided she had to have it with someone else (with " swagger").

This last sentence about hindsight just actually came to me as I was writing this comment and it forced me to think about the early stages of my relationship to my now ex, and how it really comes down to compatibility. Chris will never be able to offer the kind of zing that the ahole can, and based on what I've come to understand about compatibility, Tammy will eventually come to need what the aholes can serve up so I doubt this relationship can ever be permanent but I do think that it can last a few years and be very rewarding as long as no vows until death departure are made.


----------



## Thor

firebelly1 said:


> Well...and here's the other thing for me. I was wildly attracted to my XH. Always have been. Didn't do me any good. He was sh*t in lots of other things. If I had to choose, I would much rather have a guy who's a good communicator and an enthusiastic lover who I may be mildly attracted to than the opposite. And EVERYONE gets old. There is some point at which no matter how much we work out, we're still old and there are a bazillion people on the planet more attractive than us. As a woman, I accept this. My SO WILL find other people more attractive than me. Just nature. So in the vein basing a relationship on the most wildly attractive person seems to be folly.


I'll start by saying that nobody is perfect. And, nobody is always the perfect spouse. We all have our priorities in what we want in a spouse.

What really chaps a man's a$$ is when he feels that he has been selected not for who he is but for what he can provide. 

I can accept that as one human I am not the winner in every category compared to the combined bests of all of my wife's previous boyfriends/lovers/flings. Someone may have been smarter, someone else taller, someone else better endowed, someone else more alpha, etc. Hopefully I am overall better than any of them individually.

Hopefully I was selected because she found me overall not just acceptable but overall "wonderful". She may have settled by accepting that I am not perfect and don't have Hollywood star good looks, but she still wants *me*.

Contrast that with the idea that a man was selected because she believed him to be stable, faithful, a good earner, respectable in society, and likely a good father. This man is selected to be her mule, her home improvement hired help, and a child care worker.

There's a saying: Nice Guy for bucks, Bad Boy for fvcks. No man wants to be the Nice Guy she selects as her bankroll and servant.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yet...if he married her without those fireworks, and if he remains married to her without them yet blames HER for his depression about it...where is the man himself taking ownership of HIS CHOICES in his own life? No one holds a gun to anyone's head and says "marry this woman who isn't into you". Did the guy know this before the wedding? If yes, he married her anyway. Did he suspect it but never said anything? Whose fault is it when we make a bad choice. Someone else's or our own? Were these men completely duped by women who were saying "oh honey you know you are the best stud ever in the world!" who were lying and pretending and then later just shut it off like a hose? 

C'mon you guys. Everyone gets to own their own choices. Chances are, if you are married to someone who isn't into you (and this applies to both men and women), you have some intimacy issues yourself. Once you figure THOSE out, you will know what to do about your marriage.


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## Mr.Fisty

TAM should have a course for people getting into relationships.

First , get your childhood issues worked out.

Second, learn communication skills, because it is the first thing that break down in marriages.

Third, find if your sexually, and as well emotionally compatible.

Fourth, have a marriage check-up once in awhile to check the health of your marriage.

Actually , I forgot the compromise part, and make sure you spend time dating, and do something new to bring excitement back.


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## Flying_Dutchman

Personal said:


> My wife at 44 still has the perkiest boobs, yet she keeps telling me they're going to sag. To which I keep telling her great, I'll get to play with them in a different way.
> 
> 
> 
> As someone who likes to believe he was one of the pretty people, I hate this ageing caper.
> 
> At the end of the day though, I love all of the lines on my wife's face. Some people will always remain attractive because they carry themselves in a way that beams special all over despite how they age.


EXACTAMUNDO!


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby

Faithful Wife said:


> Yet...if he married her without those fireworks, and if he remains married to her without them yet blames HER for his depression about it...where is the man himself taking ownership of HIS CHOICES in his own life? No one holds a gun to anyone's head and says "marry this woman who isn't into you". Did the guy know this before the wedding? If yes, he married her anyway. Did he suspect it but never said anything? Whose fault is it when we make a bad choice. Someone else's or our own? Were these men completely duped by women who were saying "oh honey you know you are the best stud ever in the world!" who were lying and pretending and then later just shut it off like a hose?
> 
> C'mon you guys. Everyone gets to own their own choices. Chances are, if you are married to someone who isn't into you (and this applies to both men and women), you have some intimacy issues yourself. Once you figure THOSE out, you will know what to do about your marriage.


You are 100% correct FW.

I will say that, SOMETIMES, choices are made on misinformation. If a woman is ready to settle down (key word being settle) with a safe and stable guy, and she paints a picture of her being Ms safe and stable herself. Has plenty of sex, but it's pretty tame. Loves the stability and life the man provides but isn't a seething ball of passion for him...he may take it as this is who she is. Because this is who she portrayed herself to be. He may not know that there is a mynx crawling around just under the surface.

So if he chooses to marry her based on who she portrayed herself to be, but then LATER finds out that she really is a mynx for a guy she's hot for...and she's just not really hot for him....again, information learned later...Who's fault is it?

Now, unfortunately for the OP, the way you're describing it, Chris should OWN his choice...which wouldn't be good long term.


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## firebelly1

Personal said:


> My wife at 44 still has the perkiest boobs, yet she keeps telling me they're going to sag. To which I keep telling her great, I'll get to play with them in a different way.
> 
> 
> 
> As someone who likes to believe he was one of the pretty people, I hate this ageing caper.
> 
> At the end of the day though, I love all of the lines on my wife's face. Some people will always remain attractive because they carry themselves in a way that beams special all over despite how they age.


I love that you find your wife attractive. All due respect, I suspect that you don't see the lines and the sags so much because you love her and have been with her a while. It's different when you are now dating new people who have no history with you. They WILL take one look at you, see the crows feet on your eyes, and say "no thank you."


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## Mr.Fisty

Eh?, I have a thing for older women, and the stretch marks and crow feets don't bother me. I had a crush on my mom's friend and she is 20 years older than me.

Some guys like the mature women.

I find women attractive in their thirties and forties.


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## samyeagar

firebelly1 said:


> I love that you find your wife attractive. All due respect, I suspect that you don't see the lines and the sags so much because you love her and have been with her a while. It's different when you are now dating new people who have no history with you. They WILL take one look at you, see the crows feet on your eyes, and say "no thank you."


You are right about love and history causing us to see things differently. Entering into a new relationship, the battlescars of life won't have the same meaning, if any at all, but that doesn't lead to an automatic "no thank you"


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## Lon

Crows feet are good, so too is a few streaks of grey. And by "good" I mean better having them than not - my GF hates her grey and dyes it dark, but I always beg her to make sure to leave some grey because I find it very beautiful (and arousing). She loves the cross-hatch wrinkles that have had a good start at the top of my cheeks.

People (men and women alike) in their their 30's and 40's are usually quite spectacular (but then that makes sense since it's my own personal age range), we've mostly figured out what works for us and what doesn't and any health issues usually haven't taken too big a toll on our physical appearance yet. The maturity of adulthood that replaces the hormonal impulsions of youth goes a long way let the person's true character shine.


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## nuclearnightmare

Thor said:


> I'll start by saying that nobody is perfect. And, nobody is always the perfect spouse. We all have our priorities in what we want in a spouse.
> 
> What really chaps a man's a$$ is when he feels that he has been selected not for who he is but for what he can provide.
> 
> I can accept that as one human I am not the winner in every category compared to the combined bests of all of my wife's previous boyfriends/lovers/flings. Someone may have been smarter, someone else taller, someone else better endowed, someone else more alpha, etc. * Hopefully I am overall better than any of them individually.*Hopefully I was selected because she found me overall not just acceptable but overall "wonderful". She may have settled by accepting that I am not perfect and don't have Hollywood star good looks, but she still wants *me*.
> 
> Contrast that with the idea that a man was selected because she believed him to be stable, faithful, a good earner, respectable in society, and likely a good father. This man is selected to be her mule, her home improvement hired help, and a child care worker.
> 
> There's a saying: Nice Guy for bucks, Bad Boy for fvcks. No man wants to be the Nice Guy she selects as her bankroll and servant.



this discussion is quite interesting, ans also unusual because I don't get the sense that anyone that disagrees with anyone else is mad at them 

go figure. anyway see what I bolded in Thor's post beginning with "hopefully" 

my comments:

-- some of us, some of the men, are literally saying that better that SOMEONE ELSE had been her greatest love, her "overall best" - as long as WE are the #1 in terms of raw sexual attraction. That's right, as long as I was her plan A sexually, I can deal with being her plan B (or C or D) in a number of these other (not unimportant) areas...maturity, the guy she admired the most etc.

-- most important is not the 'overall score' but the score/ranking in that particular area. I don't think all men feel this way; perhaps is a bit extreme but if so I get the feeling there are a lot of guys sitting at that 'extreme' right with me.

-- these are not RATIONAL desires or thoughts, but have somehow been hard-wired by evolution or millenia of social conditioning into us. either way they are extremely difficult to set aside. 

-- there are a few implications. the first is that this is not necessarily something one wants to tell their spouse to be - because there really is no modern criteria that can make this desire seem rationale. we tend to not want to express irrational desires to a potential mate, for obvious reasons. 

secondly trying to determine whether or not you are the #1 of her life in terms of sex appeal (to her) is, in many instances, very difficult. hopeless perhaps. it might take a good decade of marriage to gather all the evidence needed to make that determination if say, she has had 7-10 or more lovers in her past. I don't have any clever solution for that one......very tough

-- the only good news is that I don't think we worry about Brad Pitt or celebrities or athletes. if she has not known them personally, dated them etc. then she is simply creating an ideal in her mind. no one can beat someone else's ideal. you can only beat what she has experienced in real life.


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## nuclearnightmare

BTW in terms of physical looks and getting older....it s good to do everyhting right vis-a-vis diet and exercise. 

then if you need to, to close the gap with others in terms of genes, well you can take advantage of every modern technology you can to improve even more. good to not overdo it I imagine bit it is not breaking the rules of the game to get cosmetic surgery to fix what you'd like to fix. 
this is why I'm increasingly becoming less impressed with the 'prestige' of good looks. especially hollywood people - being pretty is part of their job and surely every effective tool for that purpose is available to them. whether they have a true acting talent is the much more special trait.


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## firebelly1

nuclearnightmare said:


> this discussion is quite interesting, ans also unusual because I don't get the sense that anyone that disagrees with anyone else is mad at them
> 
> go figure. anyway see what I bolded in Thor's post beginning with "hopefully"
> 
> my comments:
> 
> -- some of us, some of the men, are literally saying that better that SOMEONE ELSE had been her greatest love, her "overall best" - as long as WE are the #1 in terms of raw sexual attraction. That's right, as long as I was her plan A sexually, I can deal with being her plan B (or C or D) in a number of these other (not unimportant) areas...maturity, the guy she admired the most etc.


This is what I'm hearing too and it's SO fascinating. I just never would have guessed this. It's made me wonder what a woman's priority is. Do we feel the same? Do we want to be a man's #1 in terms of raw sexual attraction? Perhaps I gave up on being that so long ago that it's hard to even connect with that part of myself. 

At a party, I would like to be the woman in the room every man secretly wants to be with. The woman that all the women are jealous of because I'm such a knock-out. I would like that. And it would be nice to be that woman for my SO. And if we're talking biological imperatives, this seems to fit.

But in terms of relationship, what I want most is to be the woman that my man feels closest to emotionally. He trusts me implicitly. He genuinely enjoys spending time with me. He can talk to me about anything. I want the man I'm with to be the love of my life and I want to be the same for him. That's really what I want most. So if you ask me to choose between the man I'm emotionally close to vs. the man who's bones I want to jump, there really is no contest. Door #1. But, IDEALLY, he is two men in one.


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## Thor

nuclearnightmare said:


> -- some of us, some of the men, are literally saying that better that SOMEONE ELSE had been her greatest love, her "overall best" - as long as WE are the #1 in terms of raw sexual attraction. That's right, as long as I was her plan A sexually, I can deal with being her plan B (or C or D) in a number of these other (not unimportant) areas...maturity, the guy she admired the most etc.


A woman's overall desire can be highest for a man even if he doesn't rank at the top in a particular category. He might not be the most muscular man she's dated, but she might still find him sexier. He might not be the most skilled lover, but if he is skilled enough and he has good chemistry with her then she might find sex with him is much better than with the more technically skilled lover.

And, other attributes can bump up her lust for him, such as being more mature as you suggested.

The flip side is when she feels no lust for him over time. This indicates to me as a man that she isn't into him as an individual. She may like his income, his respectability, his kindness, etc, but she isn't into _him_.


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## Buddy400

firebelly1 said:


> But in terms of relationship, what I want most is to be the woman that my man feels closest to emotionally. He trusts me implicitly. He genuinely enjoys spending time with me. He can talk to me about anything. I want the man I'm with to be the love of my life and I want to be the same for him. That's really what I want most. So if you ask me to choose between the man I'm emotionally close to vs. the man who's bones I want to jump, there really is no contest. Door #1. But, IDEALLY, he is two men in one.


That's why I think it's a little unrealistic to only get involved with the "two men in one" guy. He may not be available.

I think it's reasonable to go with Door #1 (as long as there is a deep, genuine physical attraction as well). However, be very aware of what you've learned here and make sure he thinks he's both.


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## Faithful Wife

OR...just pick a man who is secure in who he is himself, and he will most likely then be secure in who he is to you.

For example, my husband is definitely a sex god and he knows this, with or without any relationship with me. Me? I'm the same. I know what I'm worth, who I am and who I am not.

But we both understand that not everyone will agree with us. Not every woman he meets would think he is a sex god...but since being loved and worshipped that way is important to him, he just wouldn't get with a woman who isn't into him that way. Yes, you KNOW how people feel about you. And if this is important to you, you simply don't continue to date someone who isn't into to you that way. It isn't up to a woman to make him feel like one. It is up to him to pick one who feels that way about him.

Same for me. Not all men are going to understand me or like me or get me or think I'm hot as hell. It is up to me to find one who DOES, not up to a man to "convince" me he does, even though he might not.


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## Mr.Fisty

Yeah, everyone has some qualities that they find attractive, and from person to erson, people will get different ratings.

For instance, I find Cate Blanchett very attractive, even though she is twice my age.

Her poise, regalness, and her overall demeanor is highly sexy for me.

In comparison to Lindsay Lohan, who is my age, I don't find attractive, because she lacks those things.

Including Cate looks hot as an elf.


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## TammyAB

Hi everybody! I'm in a great mood today!! 

Chris and I had a loooong talk (lol) and we're good AND much more specifically, HE is good. I don't want to get all mushy here so I won't. We love each other and care deeply for each other. Chris really is the man I always knew he was. This was difficult for him and he really stepped up as a man.

To boil it down (as he would say) he understands and accepts that I have a past and that it used to be colorful (again his words). Anyway he's not accusatory or whatever. He wanted to know why I'd go with a ********* and why I'd do some stuff with him. Like Ricky15100 said and it's the truth, I told him that until Chris came into my life I didn't really know what love is and that everybody before him paled in comparison.

I also apologized for not being completely honest and he accepted my apology. We promised that we wil lnever have secrets from each other and to have great communication from now on. And we will! 

But he's still super pissed at the a-hole for blabbing and for bragging. Chris feels like everybody now knows that I was that guy's plaything and that makes Chris feel embarrassed (his words). He feels like the other guy is laughing at him and that the people we know now think less of Chris. I wish I had a cure or solution for that but I don't. Hopefully with time it'll fade but if anybody has suggestions, pleeeeze don't be shy to give them. Thanks again


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## Flying_Dutchman

Whatever truth or lies the dìckhead spread about you, it's most likely resulted in other guys thinking Chris is a lucky bàstard, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Besides, if you're happy together, who gives a tóss what they think?

Possibly, Chris was surprised and shocked but it's still lame for him to take his anger out on you.

So long as he doesn't make a habit of it, good luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TammyAB

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Whatever truth or lies the dìckhead spread about you, it's most likely resulted in other guys thinking Chris is a lucky bàstard, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Besides, if you're happy together, who gives a tóss what they think?
> 
> Possibly, Chris was surprised and shocked but it's still lame for him to take his anger out on you.
> 
> So long as he doesn't make a habit of it, good luck to you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Thanks for the positive vibe. I really wish Chris would think that others view him as a lucky bastard for getting me - yay!! Seriously though, the thing is that that's not really how he sees it. It's more like he thinks others view him as lesser I guess and view me as kind of a bit promiscuous and it's humiliating and whatever.

Also, he's NOT taking it out on me. He's super pissed at the a-hole and wants to get back at him


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## Faithful Wife

Tammy I don't mean to stir the sh*t, but did you ask Chris if he's ever done anal and who with, and asked if he enjoyed it, how many times he's done it, etc?


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## ConanHub

If one of my wife's exes started started trashing her reputation by talking about what he did with her sexually, he would probably disappear but that is just me.

I would have been angry my SO lied to me, sounds like you two worked that out, good job. But the a-hole does need to shut up. I would challenge him to a three round bout. If the a-hole keeps it up, have you considered filing some form of harassment charge?

Sounds like your BF might be getting harassed but I could be wrong. A change in friends might be necessary if they won't tell this guy to STFU.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife

Conan, I'm really surprised you see violence as a solution here.

I get the three rounds thing between men. But not as a challenge over who gets ownership bragging rights of Tammy's azz...and since that is ultimately what this is really about, it would be downright humiliating for Tammy to see two grown men fight over this, friendly fight or not.


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## ConanHub

P.S. If I was friends with Chris and a-hole started talking about what he did with you, I would invite him to STFU or step outside. A-hole would also NOT be my friend anymore.

Maybe Chris's real friends can start sticking up for you guys and shut this guy down.

He definitely needs to be far removed from your lives. Don't you feel uncomfortable with that moron telling everyone he nailed you analy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> Conan, I'm really surprised you see violence as a solution here.
> 
> I get the three rounds thing between men. But not as a challenge over who gets ownership bragging rights of Tammy's azz...and since that is ultimately what this is really about, it would be downright humiliating for Tammy to see two grown men fight over this, friendly fight or not.


The guy is an asshat. A three round bout is legal and my woman would not be the prize. Me turning the guy into tenderloin would be the check his body had to cash that his mouth wrote.

Where I come from, you don't talk about how you nailed another mans woman in polite company.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TammyAB

Chris is actually a very in shape guy. He's also not a violent guy so the idea of a fight... well he might think about it but he wouldn't go that route. ANd I wouldn't want him to even though he'd be able to beat the crap out of the other guy.

faithfulwife you asked if he's ever done anal. The answer is no he hasn't but wants to. Anyway, that part of things is going to go away real soon... like I'm thinking this weekend...

For sure we'll distance ourselves from the a-hole.

Just don't know how to rationalize to Chris my doing it with the a-hole and how to get him to not feel lesser (other than the obvious and like I said about the coming weekend).

Also, and I want real honest opinions here, would other guys think less of Chris cause of all this?


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## ConanHub

Not at all. He sounds like a good man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

ConanHub said:


> If one of my wife's exes started started trashing her reputation by talking about what he did with her sexually, he would probably disappear but that is just me.
> 
> I would have been angry my SO lied to me, sounds like you two worked that out, good job. But the a-hole does need to shut up. I would challenge him to a three round bout. If the a-hole keeps it up, have you considered filing some form of harassment charge?
> 
> Sounds like your BF might be getting harassed but I could be wrong. A change in friends might be necessary if they won't tell this guy to STFU.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You know...you say this stuff without thinking about it for a single moment.

You say you say you are a buff beautiful body builder. Okay, I believe you. What if this A-HOLE is the body builder and Chris isn't?

Is Chris supposed to take a swing and then have this guy metaphorically put his head in a toilet? I'm sure THAT will do his ego and his social standing WONDERS.

So give a bit of thought about what you are advising people you don't know.

Personally, I'd find this guys girlfriend and right in front of him and everyone tell her exactly what this guy was saying about his ex so she knows what kind of man he is. Cause women do care about the social standing of their mate.

Sure it violates 'man code' but so is being a d*uche about a current SO.


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## JCD

TammyAB, this is one thing that I would sort of insist on with my partner with a past: you need to disclose that you were intimate with whomever you still have social interactions. Yes, even a BJ.

This avoids him being blindsided. I am not saying 'you need to tell the number, quality and positions of every sex act'. That is a killer. Just 'Um...Brad and I were a very short time thing. Rodney? Once.'

This may raise a few specters but keep mollifying him and you will get through this.

Edited to add: guy who are NOT part of your life again don't mention. If they do come back, then you bring it up.


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## ConanHub

Everyone has an opinion JCD. I am usually careful to let people know it is just my opinion. I also added other avenues. The idiot needs to shut up somehow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

One thing I am not liking about this absolutist stuff about 'sex' etc is the fact that people change and the fact that people choose.

You can be a sex god while young. Had a friend like that, about 80 pounds ago. Now he is NOT a sex god. Personalities change too. And that magical chemistry thing: I have a wife. I love my wife, I am attracted to her...but I have had the 'Thunderbolt' about other women post marriage as well. And a new 'Thunderbolt' is always more powerful than an old 'Thunderbolt'.

This is where choice comes in. This isn't really a cheating situation but even if she gets a full bore 'zing' as firebelly put it, I would hope she has enough love and respect to squelch it. A decent partner ignores such things.

This is not settling. This is choosing.


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## JCD

ConanHub said:


> Everyone has an opinion JCD. I am usually careful to let people know it is just my opinion. I also added other avenues. The idiot needs to shut up somehow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can't change a scorpion.


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## Flying_Dutchman

TammyAB said:


> Chris is actually a very in shape guy. He's also not a violent guy so the idea of a fight... well he might think about it but he wouldn't go that route. ANd I wouldn't want him to even though he'd be able to beat the crap out of the other guy.
> 
> faithfulwife you asked if he's ever done anal. The answer is no he hasn't but wants to. Anyway, that part of things is going to go away real soon... like I'm thinking this weekend...
> 
> For sure we'll distance ourselves from the a-hole.
> 
> Just don't know how to rationalize to Chris my doing it with the a-hole and how to get him to not feel lesser (other than the obvious and like I said about the coming weekend).
> 
> Also, and I want real honest opinions here, would other guys think less of Chris cause of all this?


I can only keep repeating, Tammy.

It was you said at the beginning that Chris was insisting you tell him details and upsetting you. Later you said he was upset about you doing stuff with a$$hat and not with him. Whatever the truth, what you conveyed was somebody angry and manipulating you into doing something you'd tried but didn't much like, just cuz the other guy got it. If ANY of that is true, it hints that Chris is some degree of insecure. All I wanted you to do was look out for it and make sure it doesn't become a habit. Don't want to see you back here in a year, hurting from an abusive relationship.

If you say he's fine and you're happy to 'give it up', that's great and I wish you every success.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flying_Dutchman

ConanHub said:


> Everyone has an opinion JCD. I am usually careful to let people know it is just my opinion. I also added other avenues. The idiot needs to shut up somehow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe I missed something but hasn't this whole hoopla arisen from some comment(s) made one night in a bar?

So far as I can tell, I think it's only ongoing at Chris and Tammy's place. The rest of the world outside of TAM has forgotten about it since 5 mins after it happened.

I mean, a massive bar brawl is forgotten about within a day or two,, and this is just a convo that happened among 'friends' at a table and bothered only Chris.

Had he lumped the guy there and then, fair play, but thereafter it's a storm in a teacup, seems to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

It sounded like the guy kept at it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TammyAB

This is going to be my last post for the day because I've been in a good mood today and I don't want that to change. Chris and I are together and we haven't broken up.

In a nutshell and it's embarrassing, but Chris feels that the people who know now think I was like the a-hole's easy playtoy while Chris and I are now really serious about each other and that that makes Chris look less or a fool or something.


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## ConanHub

JCD said:


> You can't change a scorpion.


Wouldn't dream of it but rolling over one with something heavy always makes me smile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

TammyAB said:


> This is going to be my last post for the day because I've been in a good mood today and I don't want that to change. Chris and I are together and we haven't broken up.
> 
> In a nutshell and it's embarrassing, but Chris feels that the people who know now think I was like the a-hole's easy playtoy while Chris and I are now really serious about each other and that that makes Chris look less or a fool or something.


They aren't very good friends, if that is the whole story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Flying_Dutchman

ConanHub said:


> It sounded like the guy kept at it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, if that's the case and he's flappin' his vile mouth all over town, he should be 'persuaded' to desist.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JCD

TammyAB said:


> This is going to be my last post for the day because I've been in a good mood today and I don't want that to change. Chris and I are together and we haven't broken up.
> 
> In a nutshell and it's embarrassing, but Chris feels that the people who know now think I was like the a-hole's easy playtoy while Chris and I are now really serious about each other and that that makes Chris look less or a fool or something.


So...spread the dirt around! Get the girls together and ask if Jerky is still flapping his gums. Then tell them what a frigging mistake this guy was on all levels as a partner.

Sell it so when BF or hubby mentions that last relationship, the GF can do that eyeroll thing and say 'Yeah...right!' and convey in two words that Jerky was not the end all and be all of penises like he imagines. Plus your GF will want to ask hubby exactly what the hell hubby says about HER while her back is turned.

Hubby, in trouble now, will curse out this guy for getting him in trouble and shut their mouths.


----------



## JCD

Flying_Dutchman said:


> I can only keep repeating, Tammy.
> 
> It was you said at the beginning that Chris was insisting you tell him details and upsetting you. Later you said he was upset about you doing stuff with a$$hat and not with him. Whatever the truth, what you conveyed was somebody angry and manipulating you into doing something you'd tried but didn't much like, just cuz the other guy got it. If ANY of that is true, it hints that Chris is some degree of insecure. All I wanted you to do was look out for it and make sure it doesn't become a habit. Don't want to see you back here in a year, hurting from an abusive relationship.
> 
> If you say he's fine and you're happy to 'give it up', that's great and I wish you every success.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is a very slanted reading. It is almost like 'concern trolling'.

Let's lay out the facts:

1) She hid parts of her past. That is her decision and that's fine but she needs to own the consequences if that omission comes to bite her on the butt later...like it did!

2) Chris met a bunch of friends including Jerky.

3) Jerky started to lay out (off camera) how he screwed her up one side and down the other, including personal details that NO ONE wants openly discussed. He was laying out a marker of 'I fvcked his GF hard and she liked it'.

4) Chris went back to learn a) did she actually sleep with Jerky and b) did she do these things. There is no context why he wants this information. If Tammy and Chris were in the middle of 'anal negotiations' and suddenly he finds out that, yes, she did it and she loved it, you are darned tootin that it is getting brought up in the RE negotiations! And from her posts, that sounds like EXACTLY what happened.

5) Read this three times. When challenged

She tried to blow Chris off.

She tried to avoid the questions.

She did NOT want to verify or deny anything.

So what the hell is Chris supposed to take away from all of that? A very quick 'I dated him, we did that, I didn't like it much and I can't believe I ever slept with that ass' would have closed that book pretty firmly (though anal negotiations would have had some lasting fallout)

Instead, she acted like she was hiding the truth.

And you are putting all this blame on HIM? 

Sorry, but she was at least halfway responsible for creating these insecurities and once that barn door is open, a heck of a lot more questions start to come up. It is human nature.

I can't say I've liked your advice on this matter.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

So how old is jerkoff, Chris and Tammy? Seems a little dumb for this guy to go over town bragging about how he and Tammy were kinking it up. If Tammy was that promiscuous in the past, then everyone should be going "meh...so what?". If Tammy wasn't THAT promiscuous, then this guy should still look like a major tool - basically like some dork running around and telling anyone that would listen - "Hey everyone! I had SEX!" Tool...


----------



## Faithful Wife

I'm catching up on this season of The Mindy Project and am on this episode tonight...called "I slipped". It is about anal sex, and it is hysterical. Also very relevant to today's discussion. (Sorry for hijack Tammy, but I bet you'll love this episode, really funny and cute).

I Slipped | The Mindy Project on FOX


----------



## wise

I have been the 'a-hole' guy in your story.

In my undergrad years, I treated women as if they were an object. Now, I never once hit a woman; however, I was very assertive. There was just something about being a complete as*wipe that attracts all types of different women. In my opinion, women are wildly attracted to guys who are bold, strong, educated, and aggressive AT the time of first sight = when the hormones are in full bloom. And not only is she completely attracted to him, other women are including her friends. So it becomes a 'I am the lucky girl' bragging situation. 

And then you flip the script on her. Since her hormones are through the roof, she cannot think rationally. And that is exactly where you take advantage of her. You can literally make the woman do whatever you want. It is wild and crazy everywhere. Bed, cars, bars, beach, etc. During this whole period, I would be doing it to a couple other girls. Then after a while, she starts to really get feelings for you, and that is when you push her away. Then the girl would make her last effort and then that is when I would really become an 'as*hole.' And then her and her friends hate you and you do not care because you did X Y Z with her.

Today, those days are over for me. My girl knows all about it and she takes full credit for being the one who made me good.

To the OP, what has been done.. is done. Unfortunately, your boyfriend found out. I think you got some very solid advice here. The best thing you could do.. is treat him like he is your man. Not your loving and caring boyfriend, but YOUR MAN. Good luck.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

JCD said:


> This is a very slanted reading. It is almost like 'concern trolling'.
> 
> Let's lay out the facts:
> 
> 1) She hid parts of her past. That is her decision and that's fine but she needs to own the consequences if that omission comes to bite her on the butt later...like it did!
> 
> 2) Chris met a bunch of friends including Jerky.
> 
> 3) Jerky started to lay out (off camera) how he screwed her up one side and down the other, including personal details that NO ONE wants openly discussed. He was laying out a marker of 'I fvcked his GF hard and she liked it'.
> 
> 4) Chris went back to learn a) did she actually sleep with Jerky and b) did she do these things. There is no context why he wants this information. If Tammy and Chris were in the middle of 'anal negotiations' and suddenly he finds out that, yes, she did it and she loved it, you are darned tootin that it is getting brought up in the RE negotiations! And from her posts, that sounds like EXACTLY what happened.
> 
> 5) Read this three times. When challenged
> 
> She tried to blow Chris off.
> 
> She tried to avoid the questions.
> 
> She did NOT want to verify or deny anything.
> 
> So what the hell is Chris supposed to take away from all of that? A very quick 'I dated him, we did that, I didn't like it much and I can't believe I ever slept with that ass' would have closed that book pretty firmly (though anal negotiations would have had some lasting fallout)
> 
> Instead, she acted like she was hiding the truth.
> 
> And you are putting all this blame on HIM?
> 
> Sorry, but she was at least halfway responsible for creating these insecurities and once that barn door is open, a heck of a lot more questions start to come up. It is human nature.
> 
> I can't say I've liked your advice on this matter.


 lol @ 'concern trolling'. A new one for me.

Your thoughts would be fine but for a couple of things.

- 1. Chris has been a loving, kind BF for a year. He goes out. Tammy waits to bask in the warm glow of his return. BUT, he gets home upset and angry. Nothing in her OP tell us he's ever been like it before. Over and over she tells us how sweet he is. Confronted by this 'new' Chris, naturally she'd think "WTF is going on here?!" Then the questioning begins about something she's not suspecting and likely half forgotten. Her BF acting 'strange' and quizzing her had to be a surprise, if not shocking. In such circumstances I expect many women would give minimal answers, since who can predict how an angry, otherwise placid guy might react to, "Yeah. I let him ream me up the a$$!" She wasn't trying to deceive him. She was hoping to placate him in the heat of the moment.

Prior to this, he'd never asked her about her history. So, how was she to know he was interested? At what point during the mating ritual do you suggest that women point out around town, "See that guy? I blew him once down by the football field." You're claiming she's deceitful for not telling him. I maintain it's just as deceitful to spend a year acting like you're not interested.

If you don't have a 'rule' to clarify when a guy should ask and when a girl should tell, you have little left but your agenda. Namely, to blame Tammy for the whole unfortunate situation.

- 2. To prove your agenda, you next claim that Tammy triggered his insecurity. (So you admit he has one, as I've maintained all along - my only real point, actually. So thanks for that). Totally missing - cuz it doesn't fit your agenda - that Blabbermouth was the one that triggered it and sent Chris home angry and upset to quiz the girl he'd never quizzed before. Maybe he didn't know he had this insecurity but, when it was triggered, Tammy wasn't there. She was home, waiting.

It should come as no surprise to you, then, that I won't lose much sleep over your not liking my advice since you have none of your own,, only an agenda to blame Tammy for half-truths told in a difficult situation.

Lastly, your post seeks to serve no purpose but to undermine my genuinely held opinion. It's the very substance that trolling is made of.

Now that I've fed you, I hope you enjoyed your meal.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

Flying_Dutchman said:


> lol @ 'concern trolling'. A new one for me.
> 
> Your thoughts would be fine but for a couple of things.
> 
> - 1. Chris has been a loving, kind BF for a year. He goes out. Tammy waits to bask in the warm glow of his return. BUT, he gets home upset and angry. Nothing in her OP tell us he's ever been like it before. Over and over she tells us how sweet he is. Confronted by this 'new' Chris, naturally she'd think "WTF is going on here?!" Then the questioning begins about something she's not suspecting and likely half forgotten. Her BF acting 'strange' and quizzing her had to be a surprise, if not shocking. In such circumstances I expect many women would give minimal answers, since who can predict how an angry, otherwise placid guy might react to, "Yeah. I let him ream me up the a$$!" She wasn't trying to deceive him. She was hoping to placate him in the heat of the moment.
> 
> Prior to this, he'd never asked her about her history. So, how was she to know he was interested? At what point during the mating ritual do you suggest that women point out around town, "See that guy? I blew him once down by the football field." You're claiming she's deceitful for not telling him. I maintain it's just as deceitful to spend a year acting like you're not interested.
> 
> If you don't have a 'rule' to clarify when a guy should ask and when a girl should tell, you have little left but your agenda. Namely, to blame Tammy for the whole unfortunate situation.
> 
> - 2. To prove your agenda, you next claim that Tammy triggered his insecurity. (So you admit he has one, as I've maintained all along - my only real point, actually. So thanks for that). Totally missing - cuz it doesn't fit your agenda - that Blabbermouth was the one that triggered it and sent Chris home angry and upset to quiz the girl he'd never quizzed before. Maybe he didn't know he had this insecurity but, when it was triggered, Tammy wasn't there. She was home, waiting.
> 
> It should come as no surprise to you, then, that I won't lose much sleep over your not liking my advice since you have none of your own,, only an agenda to blame Tammy for half-truths told in a difficult situation.
> 
> Lastly, your post seeks to serve no purpose but to undermine my genuinely held opinion. It's the very substance that trolling is made of.
> 
> Now that I've fed you, I hope you enjoyed your meal.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Her past is her past...until her past became HIS present. That is what happened and you are blaming HIM for her past for becoming his present. I think, in the normal course of events, he would not have asked these questions at all...until it became a matter which affected HIM! HE gets to be the (in his mind) laughing stock at her activities.

In addition, now he has to socially or physically deal with a loudmouth. And if it comes down to physically, well, yes, the loudmouth put himself in that situation, but if he'd have a TINY little bit of a heads up, he could be on a more even keel in dealing with sh!t for brains. Having to deal with these sorts of confrontations are STRESSFUL. The biggest factor in a fight, physical or social is surprise. So he has a whole boatload of upset dumped in his lap.

You want to claim that it justifies her poor reaction (evasions) to the interrogation but somehow does not justify his upset. This is called bias.

Additionally, he is plainly upset at her lies of omission. That is what they are. Now they need to get by that.

So your assessment is incorrect.

I also gave her advice. If she is still socially interacting with some guy she 'blew by the football field' she should genteelly indicate that, yes, she and Brad used to be an item. She might also indicate how big an item they were. To put it bluntly, if she only 'blew Brad at the football field' I would lose a lot less sleep over if she is hanging around him than if I found out she had a hot, sweaty three year engagement with him.

HER past came up and affected THEIR present. This seems a very small thing to do to inoculate both of them from further stresses. And since you asked, she should deal with it now. As soon as they finish their weekend make up sex. Get it all out so he is never taken by surprise again.


No trolling here. I am DISAGREEING with you and saying it plainly.

Instead of saying 'wow, your boyfriend is shocked. Help him get over it', you have been dripping poison in her ear about 'oh...what an insecure boob you have there. You need to be careful with him! Look for all these danger signs. He doesn't deserve you...' This is based off of ONE incident which would be upsetting to any rational person.

He is supposed to accept her flaws, but not the contrary? Huh! Frankly, she could do a lot worse in a relationship than having a guy with a few hang ups. In fact, she's clearly indicated she HAS done worse...

That constant second guessing can be toxic to a relationship and I have no trouble pointing that out. Relationships are hard enough without constantly throwing doubts in there. To some extent, I feel the same way about the 'if he is not the guy who gives you the wettest panties, drop him' meme. IIRC, I took them on too. She is happy, she is satisfied both emotionally and sexually. Why throw doubts and insinuations in there? That is what it sounded like at least.

This is a bump in the road, not a dead end.

Edited to add: I also indicated she was *partly* to blame. Not that it is totally her fault. She can't be held responsible for some guy being an ass. However, how she dealt with it was not good. I do not believe that the 'shock' justified her evasions. It was obviously important to him. Instead of giving straight answers to straight questions, she ducked and weaved. That indicated a person who was hiding things.

As you stated, she had 'this great guy who suddenly got wild over this issue'. He thought he had this great honest girl until she suddenly couldn't answer a straight question.

Your Mileage May Vary. That is the great thing about TAM. People can disagree.


This is also a moot issue. She is happy and they resolved things. Fade credits.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I'd recommend you read No more mr nice guy (it's available online for free) and see if it might help your bf. It helped me a lot.

Also, if your bf will continue to have issues with this, I suggest you two attend couples counselling! It will be worth the money, as long as you pick a good counsellor. 

Ultimately, if your bf won't be able to become more self-confident about this and will be embarassed around his friends, he might want to consider making new friends and leaving the old ones behind.

Best wishes


----------



## hubbydude

TammyAB said:


> Chris is actually a very in shape guy. He's also not a violent guy so the idea of a fight... well he might think about it but he wouldn't go that route. ANd I wouldn't want him to even though he'd be able to beat the crap out of the other guy.
> 
> faithfulwife you asked if he's ever done anal. The answer is no he hasn't but wants to. Anyway, that part of things is going to go away real soon... like I'm thinking this weekend...
> 
> For sure we'll distance ourselves from the a-hole.
> 
> Just don't know how to rationalize to Chris my doing it with the a-hole and how to get him to not feel lesser (other than the obvious and like I said about the coming weekend).
> 
> *Also, and I want real honest opinions here, would other guys think less of Chris cause of all this?*


Honestly? Yes. Not because of anything you've done, but because of what Chris hasn't done. Another guy was mouthing off to his buddies about you, Chris has gotten pissy about it (understandably) but is choosing to do nothing. Not even "having a word" with his buddies. That makes him looks weak and he knows it, which is why he feels small and embarassed....he should (sorry to be blunt)!

You've twice used the phrase that Chris is "manning up" or "being a real man" about this. I suspect you're using the phrase precisely because you know that Chris is NOT being a man about it. He's being a man in the sense that he's not directing his frustrations at you (which is great) and he's trying to ensure that your relationship is still in good shape (which is awesome), but he's being a big girl when it comes to his buddies (again, sorry to be blunt, but you asked for honesty). He's saying he doesn't know how he'll feel about hanging out with them anymore.....that he feels embarassed and small? That's NOT manning up. He's saying he's reall angry at this other guy, but he's doing nothing about it other than pouting and moaning to you. That's NOT manning up.

He needs to either drop it and move on as if nothing ever happened, or admit to himself that he's feeling small and embarassed around his friends and earn himself some alpha points by taking charge of this. Those are the only options that result in Chris not feeling small and embarassed.


----------



## Thor

TammyAB said:


> In a nutshell and it's embarrassing, but Chris feels that the people who know now think I was like the a-hole's easy playtoy while Chris and I are now really serious about each other and that that makes Chris look less or a fool or something.


My reaction is that Chris is embarrassed by not knowing about your history with Jerky. 

Almost everybody has a past, and frequently the current social circles include people who know at least some of the exes. So it would be normal for Chris to socialize with people who knew you were dating (and presumably having sex with) Jerky.

But Chris didn't know that Jerky was a recent former lover of yours. This puts him "one down" on the ladder compared to Jerky. This is in the eyes of friends, who know Jerky used to have sex with Chris' new girlfriend, but they also know that *Chris does not know this*. Now, later on, Chris finds out that not only was he socializing unknowingly with a former lover of yours, he finds out others in his social circle _knew that he did not know_.

It isn't that others now know that you were with Jerky or what you did sexually with Jerky. It is that they knew while Chris did not. This makes Chris look less masculine than Jerky in a social standing.


----------



## hubbydude

TammyAB said:


> In a nutshell and it's embarrassing, but Chris feels that the people who know now think I was like the a-hole's easy playtoy while Chris and I are now really serious about each other and that that makes Chris look less or a fool or something.


Here's a prediction.....you're secretly enjoying this.

You get to play the roles of both the good girl and the easy playtoy among a group of attractive guys (you clearly find at least two of them attractive). I'm not accusing, I'm just saying. Who wouldn't like that? I'd be quite into the thought of a group of my wife's friends talking about me and thinking about me in such a way.

Please don't be playing the "poor, besmirched maiden" with Chris while going home feeling like the 'catch' that all the guys are talking about. I'm not saying you are doing this, just be sure that you're not. It would only make Chris feel worse and leave him in a bad way if / when you guys split up.


----------



## Roselyn

You need to tell Chris that you have a past and wild history which he already knows; but owe up to it. Chris feels that his friends are laughing behind his back. He does not want a low standing in his social circle.

At this point in your relationship, it is up to Chris to determine what he wants as you've already decided not to break up with him. Continue to be his friend and lover, but be true to yourself. Don't degrade yourself by doing sexual acts just to please him and humiliate yourself.

Work on your self esteem. Be a friend to yourself and focus on your lifetime goals. What's past is past. If Chris wants to be a part of your future, then good for the both of you. If your past bothers him, you might need to move on.


----------



## JCD

No one likes being the only one not in on the 'joke' because generally, that means the joke is on you.

He should have had a heads up on at least that guy.

This post helps. It has clarified my thoughts. A partner should reveal at least the identity of anyone still current in their lives socially as well as the last person one was intimate with. Because that ex is probably the one most likely to try to get reinvolved with you in some fashion, either by getting you back or just getting revenge!

This is my opinion, so take it for what it's worth


----------



## chillymorn

chris should just tell his friends if this ever comes up again that it sounds like this former lover is pinning for the one that got away!

he could also throw in something like she said her nick name for him was mr quick or pinky! then laugh it off and leave it alone.


----------



## wise

Yes, you are right intheory.

I had friends who were the complete opposite of me. Nice, sweet, and gentle. They had no problem getting phone numbers and meeting women. However, they were always so quick to start 'dating' one specific girl. Eventually, after the first 5 months, their girl literally would be walking all over them. Everything was her way or the highway. Then the girl would leave them. Obviously, they were mismatches as those guys are happily married now.

What a game it was.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman

I did a project that included the 'bad boy phenomenon' back in uni.

There are women who like bad boys, and those who wouldn't touch them with somebody elses stick. In between are a whole lot more women who range between 'maybe' and 'probably not'. Then, all it takes is the right(wrong) conditions. 

Importantly, the 'bad boy' aspect is misleading for the actual phenomenon cuz it can be any 'type' of guy the woman wouldn't normally go for. The perception that it's bad guys seems to be due to the shared bad experiences with them and a few more subtle things, most relating to perceived strength.

The conditions - Female pre-ovulation hormones (all it takes for the 'maybes') plus alcohol/other dis-inhibitor. Other life stresses have an influence, but those are the big ones. Clearly, it explains why many women get the bad boy experience/'my mistake' in their teens and emerge much wiser.

It's thought, and still debated in nature vs nurture, that the 'brute' who could bring down bison with his bare hands was a prize catch for cave-women but, to ensure a good spread of genes, it was important that other women preferred the crafty wimp with a spear.

The same influences, choices of visual preference and skill/asset recognition remain in place,, themselves influenced by a desire for variety (gene spreading). 

In both genders, dis-inhibitors release the inner chimpanzee and conscious (sensible) choices fly out the window. Women are particularly vulnerable when the few days of pre-ov' hor(ny)mones kick in. Those women who get their bad boy experience without alcohol often describe the feelings of waking up next to him as 'like a hangover'. It kind of IS,, those pre-ov hormones are like a bottle of wine 'primer'. Enough for some, mix in some alcohol and 'not my normal type' can be mighty appealling.


Worth noting - There are plenty of bad guys out there bemoaning that nerds and 'pùssies in suits' get all the hot chicks.

Further reading. - There's a S.W. Gangestad publishes research on this (with various others). For less academic reading on this and all things 'attraction', Jena Pincott has read all that boring stuff for you and broken it down into amusing chapters and sub-headings in her book "Do Gentlemen Really Prefer Blondes?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

TammyAB said:


> Chris is actually a very in shape guy. He's also not a violent guy so the idea of a fight... well he might think about it but he wouldn't go that route. ANd I wouldn't want him to even though he'd be able to beat the crap out of the other guy.
> 
> faithfulwife you asked if he's ever done anal. The answer is no he hasn't but wants to. Anyway, that part of things is going to go away real soon... like I'm thinking this weekend...
> 
> *Anal sex can be good, but it is inherently somewhat demeaning, but that is part of sexuality itself. Our subconscious minds warn us against having random sex because it involves risk. What you don't want to happen is have Chris feel that you no longer an LTR partner if you have anal intercourse.
> *
> 
> For sure we'll distance ourselves from the a-hole.
> 
> Just don't know how to rationalize to Chris my doing it with the a-hole and how to get him to not feel lesser (other than the obvious and like I said about the coming weekend).
> 
> Also, and I want real honest opinions here, would other guys think less of Chris cause of all this?
> 
> *Men consider promiscuous women alluring and contemptible all at once. If man chooses to be with a woman who has a reputation, and the relationship lasts and they have children. Her reputation will go up. Along with it his. If they have kids and don't cheat on each other, respect for both of them will rise.
> 
> If you know how to make Chris happy, just concentrate on that but always treat yourself with respect. Show that your character is stronger than it was.*


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I would think less of Chris if he demands anal sex from you.

If it is something you don't want to do, then he should respect your boundaries.

I honestly believe that he does want to try anal, but he wants to have whatever the other guy has.

His male ego and pride is getting in the way.

He is probably thinking if she gave it up to that a55shole, why doesn't she give it up to me.

Also he may feel that the other guy has one up on him.

He is not looking at the picture correctly, he has you right?


----------



## rigcol

Tammy:

the relationship should be about the two of you, if Chris is going to allow his 'friends' to dictate how he feels about you, or how he feels about himself and not stand up for himself, he's immature and possibly a little weak. I'd consider how he'd deal with more significant relationship issues in the future. 

Lastly, and most importantly, don't let outside influences 'friends' dictate you and Chris' relationship. I hope everything works out well for the both of you.


----------



## EverEvolving

TammyAB said:


> I can't believe people here are telling me to leave Chris. I don't want to leave Chris! He has treated me better than any other guy I've ever known. Why would I do that? I love him and he loves me.
> 
> Also, the jerk guy did not tell Chris. He probably mouthed off to people and it got back to Chris.


Codependency, on either his part or yours? He might just be treating you as well as he is because of an unspoken motive of eventually being able to control you. Not saying that's definitely it, but it's definitely a possibility and an angle most don't consider. Just my 2¢. I've been there. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Hamster2

This is a long thread, but I'll give my 2 cents worth...

From what I read (there was too much), she lied to him instead of being honest in her answers. Lies destroy everything. If it was me, I would walk away and wish her a good life, not because of her past mistakes but because of her lies. Trust takes a long time to build, once broken, cannot be recovered. There will always be a doubt lingering in the air, and that poison will slowly destroy the relationship.


----------



## missus

Tammy, 

I just read your story and feel like a lot of comments on this thread have been harsh to you. 
My husband and I are pretty strict Christians who were raised on the whole "no sex before marriage" thing. My husband kept that, but I didn't. I'd done a lot of things I wasn't proud of. The thing is, being honest about those things gave me a chance to properly move on and let things go- knowing that he was completely informed, and that he accepted me for what I was offering to him (complete fidelity in our relationship) was a real joy. 

Good luck. x


----------



## MarriedManInHis40s

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Since my mid 20s (longer ago than I care to think about) I haven't counted on meeting and dating too many virgins. Chances are that any new GF has a past and, particularly in a small town, I'm gonna know or encounter some of her exes. Should any of those exes brag about what they did in their intimate moments, that reflects poorly on the bragger, not my new GF.
> 
> I really don't care what she may've got up to with former partners, only whether she's compatible with me.
> 
> So, I think the OP has uncovered a ***** in Mr Perfect's armour - getting his undies in a twist cuz once upon a time she had sex with somebody else.
> 
> It's a red flag to an underlying insecurity. If the OP wants to overlook it, that's her biz. I know I wouldn't.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This, this, this. 100%. If you're dating someone who is a non-virgin, that means they've had sex. People who are having sex do the stuff that people who are having sex do, and they shouldn't be made to feel afterwards like they have to apologize for it. Why do you even need the details to start with? The fact that someone is bragging about the details reflects 100% on the bragger, not anyone else.

The ****-shaming going on in this thread is nauseating (even the OP is buying into it), but par for the course I guess.


----------



## WayUpNorth

MachoMcCoy said:


> Well, SOMEBODY has to bring it up. Might as well be you. if there's one thing I learned in my life and confirmed on these forums, rugsweeping is NEVER a viable option.


Not many secrets are really kept all the way to the grave.


----------



## Open and Honest

Honesty and open communication is HUGE in every relationship. Sure, you have things in your past, and he likely does as well, nobody is perfect. Why should your past indiscretions or sins be any worse than his? We're all sinners living in glass houses at times. What happened in the past was then, and this is now.

What's important now, is your being open and honest, not brushing something under the rug, hoping that it gets better or goes away. Talking about it, although uncomfortable at first, will be better eventually for BOTH of you. If he accepts what happened back then, which is now out of your control, but understands that what is in BOTH of your control, is how you act now, and going forward. 

If he can accept this, you two may have a future. However, if this type of thing rattles him, to where he can't or won't move past it, well then, he isn't the guy that you thought he was. I hope that's not the case tho.

You didn't do anything wrong as far as it affecting him. You didn't do what you did, while with him, so he shouldn't be holding you accountable, after the fact. Now, if what you had done, led to his contracting some disease, that's a different story. 

Do know, this is the perspective of one man, who had been faithful to his wife for 13 years, where I had literally hundreds of opportunities if I had chosen, to cheat on her, only to find that for 10 years, she had actually been having illicit affairs, lying and denying about them, and blaming others for trying to break us up. 

She eventually left for 3 years while I raised our family, but later wanted to get back together, and we have been, for the last 11 years. So, believe me, if you really love someone, realize why you originally loved them, and despite past wrongs, pledge to "sin no more" and be faithful, it can work. Is it difficult at times? Yes, but love is gentle, understanding, kind, and forgiving. If not, it isn't love. Imo, he needs a serious dose of PERSPECTIVE, get over his pride and insecurities, and realize what he has. Otherwise, you're better off finding someone who can accept you for being human. God Bless.


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## bldaz1

As'laDain said:


> you never know, i was the shy guy who found out about an old acquaintance of mine having banged my girlfriend once.
> 
> i asked her if it was true as well. i wanted to know if the guy was making **** up or not. it didnt really change my opinion of her.
> the thing that changed my opinion of her was when she started banging another dude...
> 
> hmm... maybe my story isnt helpful...


Captain Obvious rears his head


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## I dunno

Really none of his business, sounds like you've put yourself out for this guy and all he can do is slap you in the face, that's a nice. I'd read him the riot act and tell him to put up or shut up. Remember, you're not the one in the wrong, he is, Good Luck xxx


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## LongWalk

TammyAB said:


> This is going to be my last post for the day because I've been in a good mood today and I don't want that to change. Chris and I are together and we haven't broken up.
> 
> In a nutshell and it's embarrassing, but Chris feels that the people who know now think I was like the a-hole's easy playtoy while Chris and I are now really serious about each other and that that makes Chris look less or a fool or something.


Hope things are still going well.


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## abe7333

2ntnuf said:


> Just my opinion and you certainly don't have to accept it.
> 
> Gently back away from him and move on with your life. He is not the one for you. If he can't accept you for all of who you are, he will not be happy with you and you will find yourself hurt more than you are now.



You are out of your mind. Just move on stuff like that? Everybody has a past. Maybe talk it over and let him cool down? time is a great healer. If you think that he is woryh it then work things out.


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## 2ntnuf

abe7333 said:


> You are out of your mind. Just move on stuff like that? Everybody has a past. Maybe talk it over and let him cool down? time is a great healer. If you think that he is woryh it then work things out.


Yes, have the guts to know when you are not wanted and make the right decision rather than forcing something that will only create more discord in the future. Why not be as happy as you can without forcing someone to accept you for who you are?

Crazy? Maybe. Are you a doctor of psychology or psychiatry?


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## ntamph

Flying_Dutchman said:


> Worth noting - There are plenty of bad guys out there bemoaning that nerds and 'pùssies in suits' get all the hot chicks.


That's not true.


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## ConanHub

Open and Honest said:


> Honesty and open communication is HUGE in every relationship. Sure, you have things in your past, and he likely does as well, nobody is perfect. Why should your past indiscretions or sins be any worse than his? We're all sinners living in glass houses at times. What happened in the past was then, and this is now.
> 
> What's important now, is your being open and honest, not brushing something under the rug, hoping that it gets better or goes away. Talking about it, although uncomfortable at first, will be better eventually for BOTH of you. If he accepts what happened back then, which is now out of your control, but understands that what is in BOTH of your control, is how you act now, and going forward.
> 
> If he can accept this, you two may have a future. However, if this type of thing rattles him, to where he can't or won't move past it, well then, he isn't the guy that you thought he was. I hope that's not the case tho.
> 
> You didn't do anything wrong as far as it affecting him. You didn't do what you did, while with him, so he shouldn't be holding you accountable, after the fact. Now, if what you had done, led to his contracting some disease, that's a different story.
> 
> Do know, this is the perspective of one man, who had been faithful to his wife for 13 years, where I had literally hundreds of opportunities if I had chosen, to cheat on her, only to find that for 10 years, she had actually been having illicit affairs, lying and denying about them, and blaming others for trying to break us up.
> 
> She eventually left for 3 years while I raised our family, but later wanted to get back together, and we have been, for the last 11 years. So, believe me, if you really love someone, realize why you originally loved them, and despite past wrongs, pledge to "sin no more" and be faithful, it can work. Is it difficult at times? Yes, but love is gentle, understanding, kind, and forgiving. If not, it isn't love. Imo, he needs a serious dose of PERSPECTIVE, get over his pride and insecurities, and realize what he has. Otherwise, you're better off finding someone who can accept you for being human. God Bless.


Gack!!! Sorry dude. The word doormat won't go away here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS

Think Tammy is gone.


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## GusPolinski

Open and Honest said:


> Honesty and open communication is HUGE in every relationship. Sure, you have things in your past, and he likely does as well, nobody is perfect. Why should your past indiscretions or sins be any worse than his? We're all sinners living in glass houses at times. What happened in the past was then, and this is now.
> 
> What's important now, is your being open and honest, not brushing something under the rug, hoping that it gets better or goes away. Talking about it, although uncomfortable at first, will be better eventually for BOTH of you. If he accepts what happened back then, which is now out of your control, but understands that what is in BOTH of your control, is how you act now, and going forward.
> 
> If he can accept this, you two may have a future. However, if this type of thing rattles him, to where he can't or won't move past it, well then, he isn't the guy that you thought he was. I hope that's not the case tho.
> 
> You didn't do anything wrong as far as it affecting him. You didn't do what you did, while with him, so he shouldn't be holding you accountable, after the fact. Now, if what you had done, led to his contracting some disease, that's a different story.
> 
> Do know, this is the perspective of one man, who had been faithful to his wife for 13 years, where I had literally hundreds of opportunities if I had chosen, to cheat on her, only to find that for 10 years, she had actually been having illicit affairs, lying and denying about them, and blaming others for trying to break us up.
> 
> She eventually left for 3 years while I raised our family, but later wanted to get back together, and we have been, for the last 11 years. So, believe me, if you really love someone, realize why you originally loved them, and despite past wrongs, pledge to "sin no more" and be faithful, it can work. Is it difficult at times? Yes, but love is gentle, understanding, kind, and forgiving. If not, it isn't love. Imo, he needs a serious dose of PERSPECTIVE, get over his pride and insecurities, and realize what he has. Otherwise, you're better off finding someone who can accept you for being human. God Bless.


Oh wow. Congrats on getting your awesome wife and marriage back.

Or not. Seriously... I sure hope she left something other than fumes in the tank for you.

Oh, and you should probably order paternity tests for each of "your" children.



ConanHub said:


> Gack!!! Sorry dude. The word doormat won't go away here.


Dude... for reals.

When I read sh*t like ^this^, it gives me a very in-depth understanding and appreciation w/ respect to why (I think) Bandit decided to bail on TAM.

Seriously... I think I'm about to lose my f*cking dinner.


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