# How to Proceed?



## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

Long time reader, first time poster. Male, 32, been married for ten years but we don’t have any children and I’m seriously confused about where the marriage is going. On the outside my wife is a dream come true. Good looking, exotic, hard working, sweet enough that she still likes cuddling and holding hands and is quite willing to look after me. Other men are forever telling me how lucky I am but in the last couple of months she has been pushing for children and it’s made me realise how much I have been avoiding that commitment with her because of some nagging problems. 

Sex stopped soon after marriage, her claming that she only did it to please me (and that she disliked it) being a huge passion killer for me and I can honestly say that in the last couple of years we’ve done it no more than a handful of times and even then it was just because she wanted to get pregnant. It was cold and clinical, no kissing or foreplay, and I’m sad to say that after all this I no longer see her in a sexual nature so it felt impossible for me to get the job done. That only added to the awkwardness. 

Communication also dried up, we no longer spoke about our dreams and futures as if there was a difference of opinion she would immediately complain and get irritated. It felt as though I was walking on egg shells, trying my best not to say anything that will upset her. We speak no more than ten or so words to each other when we get home from work, the other night I spent three hours sat with her and all she did was use the internet (I tried switching all distractions off but we both felt rather uncomfortable) and tell me she loved me a few times. Ironic that, but I think she says it more to fill up the silence (I have complained about our poor communication before) and as a cover up for not having anything else to say. 

I’ve tried being spontaneous, I’ve tried carrying her to the bedroom and taking charge (since I do a vast majority of the chores I figured she might see me as weak) but she will complain and moan to the point where I loose all desire and would just rather get out. We’ve had a number of talks about our relationship in the past, she even brought up divorce a few times herself, but each and every time I have managed to convince her to work on our problems instead of running from them but things soon revert back and the cycle continues. I think we both feel too safe in our current situation but now I am yearning for more. Do I really want to feel like this in five years time? Not at all. 

I do care about her, I do worry about her, she has no family and little friends so I hate the idea of abandoning her and like I said, she is an incredibly nice person who could easily find someone else to give her what she deserves. In the past we used to argue like crazy (different opinions, her thinking bad of me) and she would mention divorce all the time but now that I am seriously considering it she seems the total opposite. It is driving me insane. Suggestions of counselling end up in her making excuses and I struggle to see her as a lover or partner as opposed to a friend or at times, a child who needs taking care of. We live in the same house but our lives are so separate at the moment I don’t know what to do, is this normal, is this just a phase? We seem to be stuck, and have been for a long time, is it time to get out?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Why would you even consider staying married to someone who pretended to like sex to get you to marry her?

She doesn't love you. Why do you want a lifetime of being totally sexless. 



TiredBob said:


> Long time reader, first time poster. Male, 32, been married for ten years but we don’t have any children and I’m seriously confused about where the marriage is going. On the outside my wife is a dream come true. Good looking, exotic, hard working, sweet enough that she still likes cuddling and holding hands and is quite willing to look after me. Other men are forever telling me how lucky I am but in the last couple of months she has been pushing for children and it’s made me realise how much I have been avoiding that commitment with her because of some nagging problems.
> 
> Sex stopped soon after marriage, her claming that she only did it to please me (and that she disliked it) being a huge passion killer for me and I can honestly say that in the last couple of years we’ve done it no more than a handful of times and even then it was just because she wanted to get pregnant. It was cold and clinical, no kissing or foreplay, and I’m sad to say that after all this I no longer see her in a sexual nature so it felt impossible for me to get the job done. That only added to the awkwardness.
> 
> ...


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## Notsure01 (Dec 24, 2010)

I am kind of going through the same thing...There is no passion with my husband anymore. I've always tried to have sex with him, only to get turned down all the time. He even told me once that sex was too much work, SERIOUSLY? Especially when he doesn't do a whole lot. Anyway, I've lost that loving feeling for him over the years as well...We don't communicate all that well either. He doesn't have friends and we don't live around family. So, i'm stuck cuz i don't want to abandon him....and we have 2 children involved too. 

I am going somewhere with this, i promise...lol 

So, i guess WE both have to ask ourselves some questions. 

1. Do you see yourself growing old with this person?
2. Are you ok living in a sexless marriage?
3. Is she your best friend?

My answer is No to all of the above....

I can tell you from experience, kids will NOT make it better. I have 2 kids whom i adore and wouldn't do anything differently, but it's only added MORE stress to the marriage and our relationship. We used to be best friends, we're not even that anymore. We've grown apart. 

So, do her a favor, if she wants children, don't take her child bearing years away, if you're not in it for the long run. Let her go to find someone else who is compatible with her....Meanwhile you need to be happy as well and need to find that girl who wants to please her man (and wants to be pleased by you) and wants to have that passion in a marriage. Life is way too short to be unhappy. Sex is important in a marriage...it's how you stay connected to your spouse. If you don't have that, then they're just a friend...

I guess i just answered some questions for myself writing this out.

THanks...and good luck to you!!!!


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## AlwaysThinkingMaybe (Jan 31, 2011)

Notsure01, wow, your situation sounds so very much like mine. 

TiredBob, it seems to me from reading your posts that your wife has some serious issues with her own sexuality that has nothing to do with you. Maybe it was a really bad experience when she was younger, or something but the only way that is ever going to get fixed for her is with some counseling and its possible that maybe she's just never going to change. Maybe she just wants to be a mom and nothing more.

I would call her on it, personally. Tell her she needs to start talking with someone to uncover why, and if she doesn't then just like Notsure01 said, ask yourself those questions and see what the answers are.


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## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks for the responses folks and Notsure01 you raised some very thought provoking questions. I guess if I had to answer them (which I know I really do) then I’d have to answer no to all three. I feel more like her carer than her partner (cooking food, doing the chores, fixing her mistakes) and even not wanting to sound like a pervert but the sexless thing is causing me major frustration and resentment. The weird thing is that she’ll be quite affectionate up to the point of sex, she is forever wanting to hold hands or cuddle, is always smiling and telling me she loves me but it ends there. Both from her and from me. Even when she wants it I just can’t seem to get in the mood to do it. 

For a time there was another woman. We met through our similar lines of work and the chemistry between us was electric the instant we were introduced. What got me the most is how much we could communicate with each other; we forever laughed at the same jokes, thought about the same thoughts and talked for hours on end about all aspects of our lives. We stopped short of sex, we had ample opportunity through various business trips but a large part of me felt guilty for cheating. I contemplated leaving my wife for this woman but I don’t think that is the right answer just yet.

I never told her about the affair but did mention how lonely I feel with us just sat at home in silence together. I tried making more of an effort to talk but her one word answers just reminded me of how frustrated I had become and the only effort from her side was to tell me she loved me more often but that soon felt shallow over time. In fact her refusal to admit something is wrong is what really annoys me, perhaps she feels too safe, perhaps I do as well but whenever I suggest trying to fix things she never makes any effort. 

That was a long rant but I’m still having trouble convincing her about a separation. I have no idea of where to go from here.


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## MAdadof1 (Jan 10, 2011)

TiredBob said:


> I’m still having trouble convincing her about a separation. I have no idea of where to go from here.


You don't need to convince her of a separation, you just need to convince yourself.

As someone who recently got out of long-term sexless, loveless marriage, I urge you to solve this problem one way other as soon as possible, before a child enters the picture. In my experience, the lack of sex simply gets worse, the lack of speaking simply gets worse, and doing "the vast majority of the chores" will build huge resentment in you. Been there, done that, paid a heavy price to correct my mistake late in the game.


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Is this other woman still in the picture? Not a good thing. 

What are your love languages? Sounds like there are a lot of needs not being met. On the surface things seem okay, but they aren't. Please don't have kids until you work things out. Tell her you are confused by her dropping the D word, but then also wanting kids. Tell her you'd love to rediscover your love together, before you bring kids into this world. If you try (including marriage counseling) and it doesn't work out and both of your needs are met, then at least you tried and learned something. But if you give up now, you'll both have unfinished stories.

ETA: Surprised MEM stopped where he did, he usually gives good advice. I think you're being too much of a nice guy. Visit the Men's Clubhouse for some advice on how to stop being such a nice guy and be more of an alpha. It's apparent that it might work in your situation, as you said as you seriously started considering divorce she's changed her tune. This IS fixable most likely. Marriage do go through stages.


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## Notsure01 (Dec 24, 2010)

I agree with MAdadof1...and who knows, maybe a separation will open her eyes...and if not, then you have done yourself a HUGE favor and freed yourself to find the relationship you want and deserve.


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## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

Well I asked for a separation on Friday night. It felt horrible. 

She cried for hours, I explained that I just felt unhappy in our relationship and wanted time apart to look at things from a new perspective but I don’t think she listened. The following day was pretty much the same, lots and lots of tears but I told her we could try some marriage guidance too see if the damage can be undone. I don’t think it can and while I should not be going there with a negative attitude it is worth one last try to get things sorted out. She is such an amazing woman seeing her hurt absolutely shot me like a bullet to the head. Part of me wanted to tell her to forget it and just give her a cuddle but part of me wants to move things forward as well.

Today has been weird. She made me breakfast, has been hugging me a lot, talking like nothing happened. I’m not sure if that is a good sign. It’s nice seeing her back to normal but I have a feeling this is just a cover up to avoid having to deal with what has happened, she seems in denial about it all, like we’re already back to normal. 

I still want to give the guidance a go, perhaps it will help her come to terms with what is going on, i would much rather her be angry than like this.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Just because she cried, doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you. It means she doesn't want to lose the relationship where you do things for her and she doesn't have to have sex with you.


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## Notsure01 (Dec 24, 2010)

WOW, that was a huge step Tiredbob...But let me ask you something, is there a sense of relief? or do you regret your decision (take her feelings and reaction out of it)?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Bob,
When you feel guilty just remind yourself she doesn't mind depriving you of happiness. She knows you are unhappy in a totally sexless relationship. She just doesn't care.




TiredBob said:


> Well I asked for a separation on Friday night. It felt horrible.
> 
> She cried for hours, I explained that I just felt unhappy in our relationship and wanted time apart to look at things from a new perspective but I don’t think she listened. The following day was pretty much the same, lots and lots of tears but I told her we could try some marriage guidance too see if the damage can be undone. I don’t think it can and while I should not be going there with a negative attitude it is worth one last try to get things sorted out. She is such an amazing woman seeing her hurt absolutely shot me like a bullet to the head. Part of me wanted to tell her to forget it and just give her a cuddle but part of me wants to move things forward as well.
> 
> ...


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## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

Notsure01 said:


> WOW, that was a huge step Tiredbob...But let me ask you something, is there a sense of relief? or do you regret your decision (take her feelings and reaction out of it)?


I sort of feel relieved and I sort of don’t, not much of a concrete answer huh? 

Her initial tears seem to have stopped (for now) and she’s fallen back into her denial mode where she acts like nothing has happened which is honestly annoying the hell out of me. If she’s angry then I know she’ll be proactive about the separation but she thinks by playing the good wife (lots of cooking, treating me well but still no sex) then I will snap out of things and we can continue like normal. I can’t be angry at her when she’s like this, seriously how can I complain when I come home from work to find the house immaculate and a home cooked meal waiting for me? 

I know, the sex and communication issues are still there and if we fall back into old habits things will just repeat forever.


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## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

*UPDATE:* First session with the marriage counsellor today, oh boy. 

I think my wife is starting to grasp what is happening and that this isn’t just a phase I am going through. She is still having a very hard time and while I am convinced that I have made the right decision, seeing her break down in tears is no easy feat, despite how people talk tough dealing with it is a whole different ball game. Like I said, I don’t hate her, I don’t want to see her punished so I can’t turn off my emotions so easily. 

I explained that I don’t want to rob her of her child carrying years, although she still deeply loves me, I don’t want her missing out of the chance of having children when stuck with me only for it to come back with a vengeance later on in life. Alas she has been testing me all these years and somehow I have been passing to the point where she really can’t see a future without me. This feels like a massive noose around my neck but I hope she starts talking to people to relieve some stress soon otherwise she is likely to explode. She won’t talk to a counsellor at the moment.

I’ve made this decision, there is no going back now but I didn’t realise it would be so damn painful pushing through these flames.


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## Notsure01 (Dec 24, 2010)

As much as it sucks, you're doing the right thing...and in time, she too will see that this was all for the best. But right now things are out of control for her probably...and she's scared. But then again, who wouldn't be. ya know? 

You have tried to tell her time and time again and you need to remember the pain she has put YOU through. Granted you probably didn't let her know with tears, but you've suffered too. Just remember that!! 

Hang in there!!!!! 

In time I'll be experiencing the same thing...sigh!!


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

*Read what you yourself have written:*



TiredBob said:


> Male, 32, been married for ten years but we don’t have any children.
> 
> but in the last couple of months she has been pushing for children and it’s made me realise how much I have been avoiding that commitment with her because of some nagging problems.
> 
> ...


If you have kids you are out of your mind. Seriously. Would YOU want to grow up in this? A loveless, cold environment? Well you sound JUST like my father. My mother married him for his money. Pretty much told me so. They fought for years. Every weekend I woke up listening to them screaming at each other. My father used to escape and play golf anytime he could. More reason to argue and scream at each other. They had affairs. Before I was born my father slept with my mother's SISTER!! :banghead: 

This was a seriously f*cked up situation and it started long before I came along and kept right on going. When I was 23 years old my mother would go away 4 months out of the year to Florida and my father would have his secretary over to the house. I once walked in at 9am and saw her car in the garage and she was having breakfast with my father. He told me I should call first before coming over. :slap: I told him basically that I didn't blame him for having his "friend" come over and not to worry about me telling my mother. She found out anyway and I said "serves you right". It was just ridiculous that they stayed married. 

As they grew older they got used to living with each other but my father talked about his dreams and they didn't include my mother. But he said he couldn't "abandon" her. Yes he used that SAME world because she had multiple sclerosis in her later years. Well he died of cancer at 66 years of age and 8 years later my mother is living FINE on his own spending his money...the money he never got to enjoy. I could go on and on. 

You want to live that way? Well, you are certainly doing a fine job of setting it up. You are out of your mind to to stay in this marriage. You have NO kids. You have a cold, passionless wife who doesn't want to make love to you. Notice I don't say "have sex". Having sex and making love are quite different. You might get her to do the act but is the love there? I don't think it's there and it probably never really was. I can't imagine why you think she loves you so much. She certainly doesn't ACT like it. 

You can't even have a freakin' conversation. You've come to the brink of having an affair...Holy crap, if that didn't tell you something then nothing will. Don't you think it's time to fish or cut bait? 

I think you are almost there. She probably IS afraid of losing you. You are like a comfortable old pair of slippers that she can't let go of, but that doesn't mean she loves you and wants to commit to the marriage. She just wants to "move on" with having kids. Believe me, your life will be MISERABLE with kids. You think you don't have sex now? Just wait you'll be spending your nights spanking that monkey and being a regular subscriber to internet porn (if you aren't already). You think she ignores you now? It'll get much worse with kids. The kids will give her an excuse to ignore you more because she'll be so "tired" and "stressed out" because of them. You think you do a huge share of the housework/chores now? Add a child into the mix.

In the end, you will be nothing more than someone to relieve her of the stress of raising a child (and there are many stresses, trust me) and a bank account with two legs attached and you will be STUCK. Even if you do eventually separate physically you will be tied to her forever once you have kids, unless you want to be a deadbeat dad who abandon his family and you don't sound like that kind of guy. 

Now you can walk away, allow her to build the life she wants and more importantly, YOU can build your life. You are YOUNG. 32 is young. But fast forward another 10 years with two kids and it gets a LOT harder

Please, don't put kids through what I went through as a child. Don't put them through what my kids went through either. My husband and I were doing a LOT better than what you describe before we had children but what problems we had degenerated into a cold, loveless marriage where we didn't have sex for weeks and lived separate lives and now we are dealing with the consequences of that. 

It DOES NOT get better with time. Trust me on that. Stop living a fantasy about things changing and deal with reality. Your reality pretty much sucks. Sorry, but that's the real deal and you have to deal with it. IMO, separation would be the BEST thing for you both. It would allow you to REALLY get a grasp on how you feel and get you out of the emotional entanglement that your wife is imposing on you. It would allow her to figure out if she really does love you and wants to get serious about fixing a marriage that has been broken from the start.


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## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

Thanks…I think. Like I have posted before, the decision has indeed been made so I have no grand illusions of things changing overnight, or at all to be honest, but now I have the problem of a spouse who doesn’t want to leave whilst I certainly do. I think the biggest challenge now is helping her move on with her own life while I do just the same in another direction. 

She is with a mutual friend this weekend so I hope this time apart makes her realise I am not going back on my decision. We’ve already started getting rid of ‘our’ stuff like unwanted furniture, outstanding debits etc. When the time comes to move out (house is far too big for one person so we’ll both be leaving and splitting the sale cash) there will be little physical baggage for either of us.

I’m actually looking forward to the future, something I haven’t done in a very long time, but the struggle isn’t over yet so dealing with that will be my main priority for now.


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## TiredBob (Feb 9, 2011)

Just thought I would post an update on our situation since I received a good deal of advice last time and could still use some more. We’re still living together, in completely separate parts of the house, but still under the same roof so we’re forced to see each other at some points in the evenings. For a few days she was proactive about getting the divorce, packed up a lot of her things and made arrangements to stay with friends but over the past week she has slipped back into denial mode and has convinced her self that this is just a phase I am going through and will snap out of it soon. She is also trying very hard to change my mind.

Truth be told I am finding this to be the most difficult, coming home from work to find a home cooked meal on the table, her share of chores done and a happy smiling wife is a strangely comforting sensation. One which I have not felt for such a long time but to experience it now has given me a few doubts about the whole thing. Like I said, I can not hate her, only I have changed to the point that I can no longer be the person she wants me to be, we have just grown apart to the point of me not seeing a future with her. Alas seeing her do all these nice things just makes it all the more painful and I have to remind myself of the bad times and how severe they are to keep focussed.

The other week I found a letter she had written (but not yet given) to me asking me to give her another chance. Part of me wants to say yes, to put my arms around her and make this pain go away but another, perhaps bigger, part of me knows that from all our past experience those underlying problems will just be swept under the carpet and left to ignore until they resurface again sometime in the future. That is what scares me, that I am going to give in only to repeat the same mistakes, it would be so much easier if I did but I dare not think that. 

I really feel sorry for her, she has given me a lot of love and wonderful times during the past decade but for me this wasn’t enough, she really has tried in recent months but to me its too little too late. Since she gets emotionally distraught whenever I mention me moving out and filing for divorce I feel like the bully, approaching her smiling face only to see the tears emerge whenever I try to push things along (she needs to pack up a lot more stuff) and hearing her cry afterwards is like a bullet through the heart. 

Am I moving too fast? It’s almost a month since I told her I wanted a divorce but do I need to taking things slower? Will I always feel the bad guy in all this? Is she killing me with kindness?


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