# Not just the sock drawer!



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Following reading about a woman who keeps a picture of her ex in her sock drawer, it reminded me of the fact that my wife knows a man who does all of the following.

He doesn't wear his wedding ring, yet he keeps his wedding ring (no photos) from a previous marriage in his sock drawer.

On Facebook he is friends with some ex-girlfriends and occasionally keeps in touch with them.

While on other social media, he follows some erotic photographers, nude models, sex workers, sex workers rights groups and even a brothel.

He sometimes chats with other women on another website, and occasionally compliments some of them when they post erotic and pornographic pictures of themselves.

He sometimes goes to a pub to see some women take their clothes off, and although he doesn't touch them, he gives them money for it.

He sometimes catches up with another woman (an old friend of his) alone for dinner and drinks.

He looks at porn and pays for some of it, while he also wants his wife to do some of the things he sees in porn.

He also frequently plays computer games, and always keeps his mobile phone on him, in his hand or close by.

So given all of that, if his wife says she doesn't mind his behaviour, and they both claim they’re happy. Is it okay for him to do all of those things, and is his wife wrong to accept it?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

To me, the wife is a pathetic individual that has not self respect 
But, hey, if she's OK with it, the more power to him. He got it made.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

When I hear of these types of marriages, sometimes I wonder if the couple has an “understanding,” and there’s no love, just a marriage of convenience? But, also too often I see couples who seem to merely exist in dysfunction and they have never experienced a healthy relationship maybe with anyone, in their entire lives. She may think that’s as good as it gets.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I'm going to go out on a limb here @Personal and say that man is you. Am I right?

Please don't be offended if its not (but I am sure you wouldn't be as I believe you to be very thick-skinned) but I am leaning towards thinking its you to prove a point.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I also figured @Personal was referring to himself / his own marital dynamic.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Shhhh.... @FloridaGuy1 @heartsbeating. I can't get away with anything.

It's just that given some of the extraordinary apoplexy and jumping to conclusions that I see here on TAM. I was curious to see what the peanut gallery would think of what I have described above. When the reality of it in practice is actually pretty benign, and what's going on isn't what it may seem to be.

Yet if my wife and I are to believe much of the consensus found here on TAM, our marriage must be in enormous trouble. Since I have friends and do things like play computer games and have a box of old trinkets in my sock drawer.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Personal said:


> Following reading about a woman who keeps a picture of her ex in her sock drawer, it reminded me of the fact that my wife knows a man who does all of the following.
> 
> He doesn't wear his wedding ring, yet he keeps his wedding ring (no photos) from a previous marriage in his sock drawer.
> 
> ...


Personally I wouldn't care about those people's marriage I would want to know how well my wife know this guy?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

What's your wife really think we are left to wonder, sounds like a great deal for you.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Personal said:


> .........So given all of that, *if his wife says she doesn't mind his behaviour*, and they both claim they’re happy.* Is it okay for him to do all of those things, and is his wife wrong to accept it?*


Anything that two consenting adults agree to that doesn't physically or emotionally harm someone, should be just between the two of them.

We don't know the backstory. I certainly would not be OK with a lot of the behavior he does. I would not do it, even if my wife would allow it. Still, I do know a couple where the wife enjoyed taking the husband to a strip club every now and then and buying him (and sometimes herself) lap dances. She liked to tease and embarrass him by looking at him and telling the stripper exactly what she wanted her to do to her H. She liked to tell him it was like she was paying for his foreplay to make him horny so when they got home she had less work to do.

Again, it is not typical, but if they both consent to it and can handle what is going on, then it is not a problem.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

@Personal, you have to remember that neither you nor your wife are neuro-typical. You do what works for you and don't worry about what others think.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> @Personal, you have to remember that neither you nor your wife are neuro-typical. You do what works for you and don't worry about what others think.


I don't really think that @Personal minds about what others think of him... I might be wrong, especially now that I worked it out why the photo is in the drawer...


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

sokillme said:


> What's your wife really think we are left to wonder, sounds like a great deal for you.


Well she was going to respond (incidentally the closest I got her to signing up on TAM was with her reading @CopperTop 's story), although she's now decided against it after reading the responses up to and including @Young at Heart's and my original post again.

Since she said that although what I have written is true, it feeds an impression that is far from what is occurring. Which is actually the point I'm trying to make via a practical demonstration. That on TAM collectively, we (and I'm just as guilty) often have a tendency to jump to conclusions with insufficient clarification to inform those conclusions.

That said in conversation, she agrees with @Young at Heart's opening sentence and is fine with his last as well. Yet she said that's the point, some people will think I'm getting lap dances when nothing like that is happening at all.

For example the following is completely true.



> He sometimes goes to a pub to see some women take their clothes off, and although he doesn't touch them, he gives them money for it.


Yet I am not watching strippers or anything like that at all. In fact what I am doing is going to a pub where a life drawing group meet. To share the costs of paying for nude life drawing models, to take their clothes off and generously pose for our artwork. So that fellow illustrators and artists, can share the costs of hiring models for that purpose. So we (collectively) pay to see them take their clothes off. Plus my wife encourages me to do that and or hire other models myself, while she poses for me as well. Since she really likes the delicate and detailed watercolour paintings that I create from such sessions.

Everything else is also all true and fine with my wife as well. Since nothing is nefarious and none of it is hidden from her either.



> He doesn't wear his wedding ring, yet he keeps his wedding ring (no photos) from a previous marriage in his sock drawer.


Yes I don't wear my wedding ring (well I do briefly on extremely rare occasion), since I really don't like wearing rings at all, since they make my fingers feel really uncomfortable and it hurts with prolonged wear. That said I keep my wedding ring pretty close to me and I can see it as well for much of the day.

While my wedding ring from my previous marriage (one of three or perhaps four items from that relationship I kept), just sits in a box with some old trinkets from the past (including stuff related to my now wife and childhood) that is kept in my sock drawer. Since I haven't thought of a better place to dump that small box without losing it, although we're going to be moving house again soon so who knows where I'll dump it next time?

Likewise from time to time my wife still wears a necklace and pendant that her first boyfriend gave her, because she likes how it looks. Yet she doesn't pine after him (and the poor guy is bald as a badger now), while she also doesn't regret having been his girlfriend back then and nor should she. Since her life before we were together belongs to her and not me, so she is entitled to own all of her history and experiences, as I am also entitled to my own past as well.



> On Facebook he is friends with some ex-girlfriends and occasionally keeps in touch with them.


Since I went to school with some of my ex-girlfriends and our past is much greater than just dating, and the same applies to a couple of other women as well. That said I am a bit of a slack friend in that I catch up infrequently but it does happen on rare occasion and my wife likes them as well.

Plus she's fine with it, just as I am fine with her being friends with a couple of her ex's on Facebook as well. Contrary to misinformed opinion Facebook doesn't actually make people cheat, people choose to cheat because they want to, not because Facebook made then do it.



> While on other social media, he follows some erotic photographers, nude models, sex workers, sex workers rights groups and even a brothel.


Of course I follow them, and as a creator of nude and erotic drawings plus paintings amongst other genres of work, they follow me as well, that's how I found out that some brothels had profiles on Instagram (since one of them followed me). Likewise where we live sex work is legal, and I think it's a good thing that they have groups working to make their work life a better and safer experience. So that's just another thing my wife is fine about, since she wants that part of my work to have a greater audience (with more custom and patronage) as well.



> He sometimes chats with other women on another website, and occasionally compliments some of them when they post erotic and pornographic pictures of themselves.


We share a profile on FetLife and infrequently post some of our own home made erotica and pornography. Plus sometimes chat with others and also complement some of them on what they share as well. To make our own contribution in helping to sustain community via that platform, for kinky and alternative people like us. Although of all distractions, TAM still remains my biggest draw.



> He sometimes catches up with another woman (an old friend of his) alone for dinner and drinks.


Yep, and it's good seeing her when I do. Yet it isn't often (because we're busy) and I only go alone because my wife isn't available or doesn't feel like going. Of which my wife has even gone out with her on her own as well, all without me hanging out with either of them. And I knew her for 4 years before I met my wife.

Likewise my wife sometimes has lunch alone with a guy she knows at work, when she's at work. Since he's helpful professionally and he's okay company for lunch from time to time. And I am fine with that as well.



> He looks at porn and pays for some of it, while he also wants his wife to do some of the things he sees in porn


Porn is okay (although it isn't the be all and end all of anything), since neither of us have issue with it, since meh, it's not a big deal for us. While paying for porn on occasion is a good thing, since those who work in that industry ought to get paid for the content they play a part in creating. Plus it is a good bookshelf filler in our bedroom as well.

And on my wanting her to do things that I see in porn, of course I want that. Since lots of what they show in porn is what lots of people including us enjoy sharing.



> He also frequently plays computer games, and always keeps his mobile phone on him, in his hand or close by.


Well computer games might be really bad, so I guess my wife's lucky that I've only had Mac's for more than a decade. Since if I ever get a PC setup again, it will be endless hours of DCS and Post Scriptum for me.

That said I don't have much time to play the computer games I'd really like to play very often. Yet they (TAM as well) are a frequent life saver against epic boredom and crushing worry, while waiting in emergencies at hospital. Or when waiting for my turn to go into ICU to see our daughter barely surviving, when things turn for the worse. So having Chess, Plants vs Zombies, Ghosts 'n Goblins, Monopoly, Risk and World of Tanks is a good thing.

And regarding my mobile phone, I keep it close because I am often using it, not forgetting the being constantly available for phone calls that both my wife and I dread getting, yet we need to for the care of one of our offspring. That said my wife has full access to my phone, as I do hers which she always has with her, yet both of us readily use each others phones anytime we like as well.

So really no lap dances at all. That said I am getting a good deal. Yet in being with me, my wife is getting a good deal as well.

P.S. And @Blondilocks if ever you find yourself in Australia, you are always welcome in our home. Although I fear my wife would try to burden you with a supply of her lovely home made Kokedama Bonsai plants for you to take home, if given the opportunity.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

With regards to exes if my wife had a picture of hers in her sock drawer I would be shocked. I straightened that guy out on the street outside her mom’s house and her mom was laughing at it the whole time.

Anyway I would find it bizarre I don’t know how I would react to it other than confusion.

All the other guys she used to like or be after she has on her Facebook and what she does with that, no clue… fortunately they’re all a bunch of losers. She does it with both sexes though, she collects people over time and keeps up with all of them. Sometimes it is exhausting watching it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Personal said:


> Well she was going to respond (incidentally the closest I got her to signing up on TAM was with her reading @CopperTop 's story), although she's now decided against it after reading the responses up to and including @Young at Heart's and my original post again.
> 
> Since she said that although what I have written is true, it feeds an impression that is far from what is occurring. Which is actually the point I'm trying to make via a practical demonstration. That on TAM collectively, we (and I'm just as guilty) often have a tendency to jump to conclusions with insufficient clarification to inform those conclusions.
> 
> ...


I am glad you had fun with proving your point about TAM jumping to conclusions, but at least some of us, when we jump to conclusions, aren't too judgemental about it.

You obviously live an interesting and artistic lifestyle. You also have a very loving wife, who trusts you.

Good luck.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

So what you're saying is that the OP should communicate very clearly with enough detail to give an accurate picture -- not that instead, all the posters should assume the OP's post(s) are fallacious and, therefore, not respond?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Remind me not to respond when I have been drinking.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Remind me not to respond when I have been drinking.


Is there a tell?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Personal said:


> Well she was going to respond (incidentally the closest I got her to signing up on TAM was with her reading @CopperTop 's story), although she's now decided against it after reading the responses up to and including @Young at Heart's and my original post again.
> 
> Since she said that although what I have written is true, it feeds an impression that is far from what is occurring. Which is actually the point I'm trying to make via a practical demonstration. That on TAM collectively, we (and I'm just as guilty) often have a tendency to jump to conclusions with insufficient clarification to inform those conclusions.
> 
> ...


Man that's a long post.


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## SnakePlissken (10 mo ago)

The big difference I see between your story and many I have seen in my short time on TAM is transparency coupled with mutual participation. It also sounds like boundaries are clear and accepted by you and your wife in your relationship. 

Valid point on the issue of humans projecting our bad experiences and personal boundaries onto other people's situations to offer advice. I'm not sure how else someone can offer advice...interesting food for thought.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Man that's a long post.


I have seen worse!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Personal said:


> Following reading about a woman who keeps a picture of her ex in her sock drawer, it reminded me of the fact that my wife knows a man who does all of the following.
> 
> He doesn't wear his wedding ring, yet he keeps his wedding ring (no photos) from a previous marriage in his sock drawer.
> 
> ...


One of the reasons that guys can get away with things that many women would raise eyebrows for is simply the difference between the boys and the girls. 

A guy can pine for old flames and maintain contact with them and go to strippers and watch porn and chat with women on the internet and go for lunch with ex's and coworkers etc etc etc and still never be able to get laid in a whorehouse. 

...and a man will never come home pregnant. 

For all I know, you may be one of the handsomest, sexiest studs out there, but even if you are Brad Pitt, your chances of actually getting someone else into bed is approximately 1/2,632th of that of your wife's. 

A man can go out for 368 lunches with coworkers or have daily online chats with ex's or follow and compliment every Instagram bikini model and even call up and beg every women he's ever touched for a hook up and never actually even get to first base. 

Where as any woman could be feeling a little bit lonely or a wee bit neglected or be angry with her H and send off one text or one email to meet her at the park and that guy would cancel his appointments and be there waiting for her with a bottle of wine he picked up at the Quick Trip that was on his way. 

It's two completely different planes of existence between a married man and a married woman. 

It's actually pretty difficult and labor intensive for an average MM to hook up on the side. Sure it happens but it often happens when quite a bit of luck and quite a bit of effort intersect at the right time, the right place, with the right person and the right set of circumstances. 

A MW just needs to send a txt or an email or a PM on social media. 

...... and at the end of the day, it's always the woman that stands a chance of coming home pregnant with someone else's offspring. 

So while people can point fingers and say it's a double standard and it's not fair etc etc, Things like late night online chats and lunches with coworkers and continued contact with former lovers etc are always going to carry a higher level of risk and a higher index of suspicion when those activities are with a MW vs a MM.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So what you're saying is that the OP should communicate very clearly with enough detail to give an accurate picture


That would certainly help a lot. Of course in the absence of that, clarifying questions would be helpful to avoid jumping to erroneous conclusions.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Plenty of women are willing to put up with all kinds of sleazy behavior like you not wearing your wedding ring. Some women know their husband is cheating but their marriage isn't in danger. They're fine with it. For various reasons.

The difference being in this case one of them was upset enough about it to sign up and make a thread. That changes the type of advice you should give.

So for example, I would recommend to that poster that he dump his wife, while in your case I would recommend your wife check out "The Donner Party" American Experience documentary next time you're out to dinner with one of your ex-girlfriend's.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

gaius said:


> So for example, I would recommend to that poster that he dump his wife, while in your case I would recommend your wife check out *"The Donner Party" *American Experience documentary next time you're out to dinner with one of your ex-girlfriend's.


LOL Whoa cowboy! His wife is ok with his behavior.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> LOL Whoa cowboy! His wife is ok with his behavior.


I just thought it was a riveting hour of television.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

gaius said:


> Plenty of women are willing to put up with all kinds of sleazy behavior like you not wearing your wedding ring.


So not wearing a piece of jewellery is sleazy behaviour. Oh well at least I'm in good company, since my lovely wife doesn't always wear her wedding ring either.



> Some women know their husband is cheating but their marriage isn't in danger. They're fine with it. For various reasons.


Sure some women may be fine with that, although that's not our life or approach either.

While to-date I've never cheated on any of my sexual partners whether I have been married to them or not, even in the face of a variety of explicit offers. Since it's not my style and I also think it would be poor form for me to do that, anyway it's not hard to say no thanks.

That said I don't really care if other people cheat (since what they choose to do is up to them), as long as they don't do it to me (which is another reason why it would be poor form for me to do that).

Of which on the one occasion (to the best of my knowledge) when being cheated on happened to me. And I'm not referring to make believe emotional affair nonsense, so actual real sexual infidelity. I had no hesitation in ending my marital relationship with my ex-wife, since her actions (which she was entitled to choose) made her opportunity to remain in a sexual relationship with me forfeit from that point onward (since I choose not to remain with sexual partners who make such choices).



> The difference being in this case one of them was upset enough about it to sign up and make a thread. That changes the type of advice you should give.


Well given the extraordinary revelation which came from that poster later on (which he was hanging onto for some reason), sure if that is the case he would do well to dump her.



> So for example, I would recommend to that poster that he dump his wife, while in your case I would recommend your wife check out "The Donner Party" American Experience documentary next time you're out to dinner with one of your ex-girlfriend's.


Well thanks for the show recommendation, I'll certainly pass it on. Although she probably won't be interested. That said, she'll be fine though, since she's got countless episodes of Call the Midwife to binge on, plus she has her own friends and our (now adult) children still living at home as well, so she's not lonely. Although being an introvert she is very happy to see me (and our kids) go out and do our own thing from time-to-time.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I don’t always wear mine because I take it off all the time for the gym. I have a bad one that is all chewed up and then a nice one.


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