# For wayward, don u have any fog for bs?



## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

Often I heard WS is in fog with AP, causing them to leave BS for AP.
If they truly leave the marriage and be with AP, won't they have any withdrawal for the marriage? Don't they miss BS?


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Amazingpiggy said:


> Often I heard WS is in fog with AP, causing them to leave BS for AP.
> If they truly leave the marriage and be with AP, won't they have any withdrawal for the marriage? Don't they miss BS?


If they file for divorce and get married to the affair partner, they usually believe that they are "in love" with the affair partner, that the betrayed spouse has too many faults, that the betrayed spouse didn't love them, that they (the cheater) grew apart from the betrayed spouse, that they (the cheater) deserve to be happy, or things along those lines.

Do they miss the BS in that situation or feel any withdrawal for the marriage? Yeah, probably, to some degree, but just not enough to stay with them or go back to them or even express that to them. They keep it to themselves and go on with their lives. Sometimes the cheater does express these things, they have trouble leaving the marriage, although maybe they eventually do. It is clear that they have some sorrow that the marriage is ending in many cases.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Many times, after 3-5 years in the "new" relationship with the affair partner, the cheater finds themself in the same situation they originally had been in with the first spouse - finding fault with the affair partner (now spouse), not feeling "in love" anymore, feeling life is boring and routine and whatever else they felt was wrong with the original marriage.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Amazingpiggy said:


> Often I heard WS is in fog with AP, causing them to leave BS for AP.
> If they truly leave the marriage and be with AP, won't they have any withdrawal for the marriage? Don't they miss BS?


If they have emotionally attached to the AP they will unlikely regret the decision. The bond is too strong. As far as the likelihood the marriage would survive, I've seen figures at high at 97% failure in AP marriages. If they cheated once, it is likely that at least one of them will cheat again. If the relationship was born in the cesspool of lies and deceit what chance does it really have to grow into a healthy relationship?


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Can't say for others... but

My wife had been 2 LT EAPA spanning 5 years. She knew neither of the OM were a future for her. She just got sucked into the attention and enjoyed the thrill of being chased. Both affairs fizzled over time. She lived with the secret and buried the guilt. It didn't go away. She lost weight, rarely slept with out pills. A year or so after she "quit" cheating an old college BF contacted her on FB. Within weeks she was in-love again and met him in a nearby town for hotel sex. Once she had sex with him, she quickly started to plan her exit. I downloaded her emails with him and you can see the rapid progression in her thinking. 

Here's the point... both of them were serial cheaters in "bad" marriages. She confided in him that she had cheated. He in-turn the same. When I first read this, I missed the point. She had been living with the guilt and shame of her cheating for years but felt she was trapped and could never admit it. Now she has someone that not only doesn't care about her past transgressions but understands them and congratulates her courage to "step out" and seek her happiness. 

Honor among thieves... if you will.

In essence, her "new" soul mate has absolved her of her guilt. When they both divorce and marry, she gets to do a "Do-Over" and once again she is a pure, honest wife. 

Never-never land!

When I discovered the affair, and she was confronted by me, and our grown children. The bubble burst into a thousand pieces. My children rejected her, refused to have any contact and basically told her to go to hell. Some where in the foggy thinking... she actually thought her children would not object and would actually be happy for her, since it was obvious to her that I was such a "horrible" husband.


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## martyc47 (Oct 20, 2011)

I think more times than not the cheaters have probably already checked out of the marriage, so they have "mourned" the loss of their marriage already, privately behind the scenes. The affair and/or physical separation is just a breaking of the last tie holding it together, but they've already rationalized the behavior.


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## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

So the ww won't mourn for the lost of marriage but mourn for the affair.

Isn't the marriage duration longer than the affair?
Won't they feel lost when the marriage is officially over?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Amazingpiggy said:


> So the ww won't mourn for the lost of marriage but mourn for the affair.
> 
> Isn't the marriage duration longer than the affair?
> Won't they feel lost when the marriage is officially over?


Nope, they'll be too busy telling themself how wonderful life is going to be in wonderland with their OM or OW. 

Then after having to live with them, and realize they're not special, and that the peculiars and constraints of the past relationship are all in the new one. 

Then compound the fact that OW/OM isn't as caring as the BS and you'll start see some buyer's remorse. 

Waywards truly don't think about the BS during this time. 

The woman who was less than two months from being my wife moved in with OM as soon as it was over between us. Did a lot of other bad crap as well. 

Few years later guess whose showing up on my doorstep saying we're soul mates and trying to get back together?

And guess who told her to fvck off?

<----------------------- This guy


Some BSs fall for this act thats usually full of crap, but many will find themselves moved on from their exs by then..


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## TCx (Dec 15, 2011)

Amazingpiggy said:


> So the ww won't mourn for the lost of marriage but mourn for the affair.


I think that a WS probably mourns the end of the M (I certainly do; I love my stbxw very much and I want her to be happy). Regardless of what any WS says, if they've stayed with someone for any length of time, chances are that they have loved that person (there are always exceptions).



Amazingpiggy said:


> Isn't the marriage duration longer than the affair?


Yes, and in most cases, that's exactly the challenge.

I don't fully understand the whole process but my [potentially flawed] understanding of it is that when the WS is in the presence of their AP, their body releases Serotonin and Oxytocin (proteins which cause that euphoric love feeling) which the WS then associates their presence with that 'high'. When the AP is 'gone', the WS craves their presence (ie - another hit). So when a WS breaks off an A, they go into a kind of withdrawal.

This process of getting a 'hit' in the presence of their AP only lasts for the first 18-36 months of a relationship, during the pair bonding process.

So for most marriages, the WS has already been weened off of the response that their BS used to cause in them. 

So when the bonding process happens with the AP, the WS is getting that high again.




Amazingpiggy said:


> Won't they feel lost when the marriage is officially over?


I would think that would depend on the WS and the situation. If they run straight to the AP then probably not. But once those chemicals wear off the BS is then on 'equal footing' (chemically speaking) for a comparison as a long term partner (ie - a comparison that does not include obsession and infatuation for the AP). And by then, the WS has seen all of the flaws and faults to make that informed comparison.

For more info on the love process, see the Wikipedia


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## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

So that means, when the time past, The feeling once they have become numb like any relationship. They will start to feel whether the action they make doesn't worth it at all. 
Will they justify themselves again by saying the AP is not the soulmate again? Or they will just justify themselves that "I give up so much for the AP, I better make this work" ?


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

Amazingpiggy said:


> So that means, when the time past, The feeling once they have become numb like any relationship. They will start to feel whether the action they make doesn't worth it at all.
> Will they justify themselves again by saying the AP is not the soulmate again? Or they will just justify themselves that "I give up so much for the AP, I better make this work" ?


It can go either way. 

Many of the selfish ones will go with the first. 

The ones who actually realize what they did and feel guilty about it will sleep in the bed they made. 

Many waywards chase the chemical made infatuation feeling of love. 

Thing is it can't last. In normal relationships people get to a position of comfortability, but with these waywards you'll see them bouncing from relationship to relationship once the heady love feeling dissipates


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Amazingpiggy said:


> So the ww won't mourn for the lost of marriage but mourn for the affair.
> 
> Isn't the marriage duration longer than the affair?
> Won't they feel lost when the marriage is officially over?


The WW/WH rewrote their marriage history to justify their affair.

The affair relationship caused addictive brains chemical actions as with any other addiction.

An addict until they detox they morun the loss of their high.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Many a WS years later when they realize their AP did not make the perfect new spouse will not admit they were wrong to have an affair.

For to show regret would mean that they have to feel the public embarassment of the decisions that they made.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

RWB said:


> Here's the point... both of them were serial cheaters in "bad" marriages. She confided in him that she had cheated. He in-turn the same. When I first read this, I missed the point. She had been living with the guilt and shame of her cheating for years but felt she was trapped and could never admit it. Now she has someone that not only doesn't care about her past transgressions but understands them and congratulates her courage to "step out" and seek her happiness.
> 
> Honor among thieves... if you will.
> 
> ...


Wow - this makes sense. My hubs is a serial cheater (more than once) - he "bonded" w/ last OW who was also a serial cheater...they "clicked", shared their cheating ways, and she told him he was not a bad person, that he deserved to be happy and that is all it was. He really believed that everything would be OK - that our 2 young children would be just fine and their new life that they would start together would be perfect and everyone would accept it.

Thankfully, he busted through the fog and really sees the error of his ways and hates himself for all that he has done. This makes sense, but is still very hard to understand what all goes on in the mind of a cheater.

OW is still a wreck and still looking for the next best thing....already found a new love of her life and soulmate again within 6 months and broke up. I guess soulmates are a dime a dozen these days. The phrase just kind of rolls off the tongue to a cheater.


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## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Wow - this makes sense. My hubs is a serial cheater (more than once) - he "bonded" w/ last OW who was also a serial cheater...they "clicked", shared their cheating ways, and she told him he was not a bad person, that he deserved to be happy and that is all it was. He really believed that everything would be OK - that our 2 young children would be just fine and their new life that they would start together would be perfect and everyone would accept it.
> 
> Thankfully, *he busted through the fog* and really sees the error of his ways and hates himself for all that he has done. This makes sense, but is still very hard to understand what all goes on in the mind of a cheater.
> 
> OW is still a wreck and still looking for the next best thing....already found a new love of her life and soulmate again within 6 months and broke up. I guess soulmates are a dime a dozen these days. The phrase just kind of rolls off the tongue to a cheater.


How did he busted through the fog? With ur help?
He was a serial cheater, it be hard to help him busted the fog.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

To try and keep it short (er) - he cheated on me 10 years ago. It was not an "affair" by longterm standards or emotional investment, but a 2 time covenience. I never knew about it until this last affair broke and he confessed to this happening when I asked him if there were any others. For that one, he said that it was just sex. He didn't want to tell me because he was afraid I would leave and he vowed to himself that he would never let it happen again.

Fast forward to last year. He became sexually and emotionally invested in OW. 5 weeks of online/phone/sext and 4 days of sex. We had some major life changes in the 2 years leading up - military retirement, new jobs, new state, move, house purchase, car purchase, temper tantrum toddler. We had no sitters, so no dates and I was super mom - doing all household everything, finances, working fulltime and running the kids to karate - he was having a midlife crisis, I don't know. I felt overwhelmed at times and told him, he always said we were fine and nothing ore than any other couple goes through. We just had a lot on our plate.

This affair was all a first for me. He was another person. He started fights, blamed me, and then turned overnight into someone I could not find any familiarity in. The best way I think I can describe it is that he wants to do the right ting, but he is weak, and cared more for his own immediate needs/pleasures than anything else. Did I pull him out of the fog? I don't know. At times I think I may have helped, but I don't know. I didn't give up. I wanted my family, but I was not sure I could recover from what he did. What I did know is that he was throwing his entire life away on someone who was using him to get out of her current situation, and then she would have thrown him under the bus when the next best thng came along. He couldn't see that, and I felt obligatd to make him wake up and save his relationship with his children, even if we could not be saved. 

I pointed out things she did, things she said. He experienced first hand how vindictive and low she was, but that didn't snap him out. He carried on underground for 3 more months after DD1 - 4 DDs total. Why do I know he wanted to stop - after each DD he bought a new burner phone. If he had no plans to stop, he would have kept 1.

I would love to get him on here and share his feelings, but I don't think that will happen. As for the final straw and how he stopped NC....we had a huge fight 2 nights before. He was texting her about it. I was texting him about it. He said he finally said "What am I doing? What have I become?", and then told her to take care and that was it. Then he said he never looked back. Do I think he still had withdrawls...probably, even though he would never admit it. 

What has pulled him out of the fog of being a serial cheater.....he has done a lot of self reflecting on who he used to be, how he thought he was better than others, how he was selfish, and how his decisions have done nothing but hurt his family and his self image. He si a broken man who shams himself daily, tells me he has no honor. He is humbled, and he has a very hard time knowing that he didn't care enough about his family and his children (especially his two little girls) and almost threw them away for someone who told him that they would be fine growing up without a father because she turned out ok without a father...and he would have if I didn't fight so hard and just walked away. I am so glad I didn't.

In short, I think he wanted to do the right thing, saw what he was throwing away but also still wanted to have that cheap thrill, and finally it started taking a toll on him physically, emotionally and mentally. The life he thought he had was shattered and everything else was falling down around him. He almost lost his job and he cut off contact with everyone to have a secret relationship. It almost destroyed him and I stayed to make sure that didn't happen.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> To try and keep it short (er) - he cheated on me 10 years ago. It was not an "affair" by longterm standards or emotional investment, but a 2 time covenience. I never knew about it until this last affair broke and he confessed to this happening when I asked him if there were any others. For that one, he said that it was just sex. He didn't want to tell me because he was afraid I would leave and he vowed to himself that he would never let it happen again.
> 
> Fast forward to last year. He became sexually and emotionally invested in OW. 5 weeks of online/phone/sext and 4 days of sex. We had some major life changes in the 2 years leading up - military retirement, new jobs, new state, move, house purchase, car purchase, temper tantrum toddler. We had no sitters, so no dates and I was super mom - doing all household everything, finances, working fulltime and running the kids to karate - he was having a midlife crisis, I don't know. I felt overwhelmed at times and told him, he always said we were fine and nothing ore than any other couple goes through. We just had a lot on our plate.
> 
> ...


Youre a good woman LFTS. I hope he appreciates that. I too had to drag my H kicking and screaming away from OW. Im glad I did. He wouldnt have chosen it if I had just given in instead of staying and pointing out all the flaws in his thought processes and if I had just said "fine have at it" and now my daughter wouldnt have her father and he'd be miserable with some biatch who was a predator. Not making him the victim by any means, he was absolutely at fault. he should NEVER have gotten near her in the first place. I am glad I stuck it out. I was tempted to leave the entire last quarter of 2011 and the first of 2012. I knew the man I married was still in there, I just had to find him again. Im starting to see him bit by bit but what a ride its been.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

We had a discussion last night. He knows what he did to his children even though they do not. He says it kills him when he shows videos and pictures of him and the girls at work that they keep telling him that he is father of the year. So I asked him, "Are you faking it, or are you really loving and enjoying the time with your family and daughters and want to be here doing it?" He said he loves it and wants to be here, so I told him that maybe 2013 will be his year to be the best father he can. What he did in the past is not the man or father who he is now. He said he knows that and he has done a 180 from a year ago, but will aways know what his past was.


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## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

At least u stood by him, and he accept that.
There are some will reject BS help and blame BS as the devil, AP as the angel.
This type of WW are hopeless


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## committedwife (Dec 12, 2011)

Amazingpiggy said:


> Often I heard WS is in fog with AP, causing them to leave BS for AP.
> If they truly leave the marriage and be with AP, won't they have any withdrawal for the marriage? Don't they miss BS?


AmazingPiggy, can you share your story with us? It might help us to respond to you. Your question is very generic, so you'll get a generic response.


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## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

I posted my story at this thread

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...fair-when-pregnant-still-continue-affair.html

He is hopeless and I don want to argue with him. We are separated now, goin to the route of divorce.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

LookingForTheSun said:


> So I asked him, "*Are you faking it,* or are you really loving and enjoying the time with your family and daughters and want to be here doing it?"


I asked the same thing. I caught my wife serially cheating for years and she breaks down and pleads for mercy. She acts broken, remorseful, and is doing everything to keep me from divorcing, leaving her forever. 

I just didn't get it. How can someone who is lying, cheating, and blame-shifting on a daily basis for years on end... change into this "other" person in a matter of days. I told her... *"I'm the same person I was last week when you were f--king him in some hotel".* I am me. The same person you married 30 years ago.

Very confusing this reasoning of a serial cheater?


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## Amazingpiggy (Dec 23, 2012)

Yes, they just don't learn the consequences.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

Amazingpiggy said:


> Often I heard WS is in fog with AP, causing them to leave BS for AP.
> If they truly leave the marriage and be with AP, won't they have any withdrawal for the marriage? Don't they miss BS?


The question you are asking is "Doesn't the WS feel any affection for the BS at all?"

The scales, for whatever reason have tipped. I won't dwell on why, thiough most people will tell you about cake fetishes and what not.

But HE/SHE loves the other person more than their spouse. Love, lust, infatuation, newness.

Some of them can be fixed. And usually, there is a kernal of that affection still there. Oh...not enough to stop sleeping with them. Enough to 'protect them from the pain'...and consequently avoid a messy scene and break the affair public.

People are complex multifaceted things.


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