# Lost Soul after 13 Years



## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hello everyone,

I joined this site to post on my situation. My husband and I have been together for 13 years total (married for three of those years as of next month). We don't have any children bc we wanted to be financially secure beforehand... we're getting there, though... maybe another year and a half. Wanted to pay-off his huge undergraduate student loans (we did nearly 3 years ago), and now husband is paying his way through grad school. We also wanted to buy a house first, but live in a one-bedroom rental so that we can afford to pay out-of-pocket for his MBA.

When we talked about having kids, we agreed I'd stay home and raise them. My husband makes good money, but we move a lot, and we agreed that I could give notice to my employer and we'd see how we'd do on just his income. We're doing just fine. We have to keep renting a small apartment in order to afford tuition, but we are ok.

Last year, we talked about getting life insurance through his employer, especially since I'm not working right now. It costs maybe a few dollars a week, but the policy through work offers up to nine times his salary... No, it's not enough to live on forever, but if God forbid something happen to him, I could go back to work and get-by with that.

The other day, however, he said he wants to list his parents and brother as beneficiaries too. He said he wants them to receive 5% each.

We do not currently help any of them financially. None of them are in any kind of financial need or hardship situation. His parents are in their early 60s and are semi-retired. His brother is in his late 20s, has a full-time job, and lives at home with mom and dad, rent and bill-free. (He auto-pays student loans every month, and will be done paying them off next year). ... He then plans to propose to his gf, and get a place together.

In some states, anything earned by either spouse is considered spousal-property. For example, husband's pay from work is considered equally the husband's and his spouse's. So, anything paid directly from his paycheck is considered his spouse's, too, like - for example - benefits that are paid directly by his paycheck, including the life-insurance benefit offered through his employer. Because his paycheck and anything that is directly paid with it is considered equal property to both spouse's, if the policy-owner wants to name other parties as beneficiaries, the spouse's signature is required in order to do so. Additionally, in some states, life insurance benefits are NOT 100% tax-free.... In PA, for example, beneficiaries other than your spouse are subject to 12-15% tax duty.

It seems clear to me that listing beneficiaries other than spouses/children is highly unusual. I was always under the impression that life insurance is to benefit those who would otherwise suffer financially in the case of the insured's death. 

It also seems clear to me that my husband sees his parents and brother still as part of his immediate family.... I don't see how any of them would be financially affected by his sudden/untimely death; I only see how I would be, since he and I are the only people depending on his salary. We also may have children at any time, and benefit-options can only be changed once/year during "open enrollment," or AFTER a major life-event, like having a baby.... If, God forbid, I be pregnant, and my husband dies, the policy benefits would be distributed as written at the time of his death. We wouldn't have the chance to alter them after a baby was born....

All this talk has me feeling awful. I hate thinking about if one of us dies early. And, I don't see why listing any of my in-laws as beneficiaries even in low-percentages is appropriate, but I also feel like a psycho, selfish freak for feeling this way as 90% beneficiary.... But mostly, I just feel like sh*t because I have a husband who obviously didn't think this idea isn't appropriate.... Straight up -- it's not normal. It just isn't done. It's so outside the norm, MY signature is needed to agree to it. The other crazy part is he's not even aware it's so outside the norm that my signature is needed for consent; he just thinks he's being a thoughtful son/brother....

I guess I want to know: How should I feel? Should I feel like sh*t bc I'm so greedy and want 100%, or should I feel like sh*t because I feel like I have a husband who doesn't see me and his unborn as 100% dependent? I feel like I can't shake this feeling that I'm married to someone who is still married to HIS family. I feel devastated, and heart-broken bc I'm in this position of having to explain to him that his life insurance policy IS intended for his family -- a family that WE made when we got married. I literally feel sick over this; I feel like sh*t having to say that it's not right to list his brother and parents on his policy.

Note: I would feel differently if any of these people were, in fact, in need or we were helping any of them financially. But they're not in need, and we're not helping any of them financially; they're all able-bodied. Also note, if someone IS disabled, for example, and receives any kind of government assistance, AND is a beneficiary of a life-insurance payout, they become DISQUALIFIED for that assistance....

I just feel like there are so many reasons NOT to list other people on a life insurance policy. It seems really obvious to me why it's not done... and having a husband who wants to do this thing that isn't normal really makes me feel... empty. I'd rather not be in this relationship. I feel lost, and I'd rather have nothing. After 13 years, it just feels really painful. I'm not even eating. In the past 48 hours, I've had one Cup of Noodles (that ramen cup thing). I'm hungry, but I don't want to eat. 

So... how should I feel? Am I a psychotic, selfish, greedy wench? 
And... what should I do? 

Grateful for thoughts/words of wisdom,
LostSoul13


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

Have you talked to your husband about this? It is not clear from your post if you have or not.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I’m sorry but I think your being a little dramatic. He can do whatever he wants with his life insurance policy’s. 

And I think that it would be in your best interest to get a job or start to pursue a career for yourself. It’s important that everyone be able to talk care of themselves at any given time. And you are putting a lot of pressure on your plan A to work out and plan A doesn’t always work out. 

I was with my exH for 15 years. He is a surgeon, I had been with him since high school. I supported him and sacrificed for him while he did his schooling and residency..: let’s just say we are now divorced and is coincidentally happened right before he started making the big bucks. I got “screwed”. But luckily I had a plan B and I was focused on my own career path and I am doing great and very happy, and it could have been devastating.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

On the surface it seems like you're overreacting. Is this really the only thing you're upset about, or are there other problems in your relationship? I don't think 10% of a life insurance payout that you will hopefully never need to cash in is worth throwing out a marriage over.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The assigning a few percent to an immediate family member isn't unusual although it's usually the children. 

Perhaps you may be making too much of it? 

At least consider this is possible. It really isn't that uncommon. 

And a person can change his/her beneficiaries as conditions change.

I'm not going to say, only you know all the circumstances.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Girl_power,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yes, I had a career, and feel comfortable going back.

But, as I wrote, he cannot do whatever he wants with this life insurance policy. He needs my written consent to list other beneficiaries... also why I wrote having beneficiaries other than your spouse/children is very unusual... It's something that wouldn't normally be consented to, which is why consent is required.

I agree, I should go back to work, but I also feel like I should be leaving him/starting the separation process.

From your response, you seem to be of the mindset that all people should have their own careers. Keep in mind that nation-wide, 50% of mothers (of minors) do not earn an income. That's right: 50% of them are SAHMs, and live in single-income households. My husband and I were setting-up to be a part of that 50%.

You're right, plans don't always work-out, and having a fall-back seems essential in my case. My husband and I aren't on the same page, and this is a big deal... it's shown that he thinks outside the norm in terms of family dynamic, and it affects me enough that I need a plan B. I honestly wish this issue had come-up sooner.

Thanks again, 
LostSoul13


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Ragnar,

You're right, there's a bit more at play... and it has to do with children, and that we planned to have them in the near(ish) future....

Immediate family is your spouse and children.
If you're not married, your immediate family are parents and/or siblings.

Once married, your parents and siblings are no longer considered immediate family members, hence why life-insurance benefits are tax-free to immediate family members (spouse/children), but NOT tax-free to parents, siblings, and other people.

You're right, it is POSSIBLE to list other people as beneficiaries, but it's so unusual/not usually consented to that it REQUIRES spousal-consent.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Hmm... I listed my parents as beneficiaries on my life insurance until quite recently... both 10%. 

Before I got married, my parents got all of it. After I got married, I changed 80% to my wife. 

In my case, I can name anyone a beneficiary. Even in community property states, I could still name a random stranger as my the beneficiary if I chose to do so, and I would not need my wifes consent. 

I just recently named my wife the sole beneficiary, so it doesn't matter either way. 

But I wouldn't need her consent if i wanted to change that...


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Tex,

You're right, it DOES seem like I'm overreacting....
It has to do with the children we planned to have in the near(ish) future....

When my husband said to me that he wanted to list his parents and brother as beneficiaries on his life insurance policy, he did seem uncomfortable. I think he's aware that it's not normal. Again, the only people that are affected by his income are him and I. Since he's very close with his coworkers, I asked him if he believes any of them have their parents or siblings listed on their policies, to which he answered, "No, it's their spouses and their kids." And so began our discussion about us having kids. My husband wants a baby, but has said he doesn't want one until he is more financially comfortable. We are both 33, and I have said I'd prefer not to have kids when medically considered Advanced Maternal Age. You're medically considered Advanced Maternal Age if your DUE DATE is when you are age 35 or older. That is, if you become pregnant at age 34 and 3 months or later. Even so, every week he talks about having kids, even though he knows he won't be done with grad school for another 1+ years, and when he brought up adding his parents and brother to his life insurance policy and mentioned that his coworkers don't list their parents/siblings (only their spouse and children), he said "because I guess we're not having kids."

When he said that, after every week saying how he wants a baby, I was taken aback completely.
What on earth am I doing home if we're not having kids, for example?

When my husband said he wants to add his parents and brother on his life insurance as beneficiaries, it was clear he doesn't see me/us as immediate family, and still sees his parents and brother as his family. Again, I'm not sure why/how his parents or brother would be affected financially in the event of his death, but the added blow that he suddenly changed his tune about a family with me hit very hard.... I was aware that I will be considered Advanced Maternal Age when my husband finally feels financially comfortable enough to have kids... and I thought he was too, considering he talked about having a baby frequently (literally every week, including last week)... but suddenly, he's saying I guess we're not having kids and therefore his family remains his parents and sibling.

I don't want to leave. We do love each other. We don't have other problems, like infidelity or things like that.... but I admit, I've always had this feeling that when I married him, I was marrying his whole family. And, like I said, there's nothing wrong with them. They're all fine physically and financially.

I just feel more than taken aback by all of this. It's completely abnormal to list people on a life insurance policy who don't live with you, nor receive financial assistance from you, and aren't/wouldn't be in any financial need in the event of your death.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hey As'laDain,

Thank you for your post!

This is from NOLO.com:

"In Community Property States, Don't Forget Your Spouse

But if you live in a community property state and want to name someone else, get your spouse's consent, in writing. The reason is that if you buy a life insurance policy with community funds—your wages, for example—then it belongs to both you and your spouse."

Also curious, what made you change the beneficiary to be solely your spouse?

Appreciate your input,
LostSoul13


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Have you and your husband even discussed the life insurance issue and how much it bothers you? That it bothers you SO much you would divorce him over it?

And have you talked about children since him saying "I guess we're not having children"? If you haven't, he could be assuming that YOU no longer want to have children, just like you are assuming that HE no longer wants children.

IMO, the insurance issue is not divorce-worthy. If I were married to someone who threw a fit like this over it, I'd be the one filing the divorce papers.

Children, on the other hand, that is a major issue that you two need to discuss. Or you can pout and contemplate or threaten divorce every time you don't get your way.

You said your husband "clearly" sees his parents and brother as his immediate family, not you. However, he is listing YOU at 90%, not them.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

leftfield said:


> Have you talked to your husband about this? It is not clear from your post if you have or not.


Hi Leftfield,

Yes, so my husband said to me that he wanted to add his parents and brother to his life insurance policy. I could tell he knew this isn't typically done by how he was talking. What's really striking about it, again, is that none of them will be financially affected in the event of his death -- only I would be (and any unborn child or children in the case of multiples). Life insurance policies list beneficiaries who would be financially affected by the insured person's death, or they list charities (a place in need of funds). 

For example, if you are earning income, but financially support your mother/father/siblings, then they WOULD be financially affected by your passing, and they would be appropriate people to list on your life insurance as beneficiaries. For example, if your brother is disabled, and you help him/his family by contributing some of your earning for his care, he would be an appropriate person to list as a beneficiary.

It is generally accepted that your spouse and children are who's listed on your life insurance policy. And this is also why your spouse's signature is needed to consent to listing anyone other than your spouse.... it's something that happens in unusual circumstances (like supporting a dependent relative). I imagine, spouses would consent in situations like the above, but otherwise wouldn't, which is why consent is required.

I wrote about other, compounding issues surrounding my husband's statement that he was going to add his brother and parents as beneficiaries in my response to Tex.... It has to do with us having kids, so we did talk about this (and a bit more).... You can read my response to Tex.... it was all very overwhelming, and I truly feel lost after 13 years together. I wish this somehow came up sooner. I'm 33 now, and while I am comfortable getting my career back, I'm not comfortable starting a new life/family with someone else at this point. I just feel heartbroken. I've been crying for two days. I've spent most of it in bed, and I don't want to eat. I feel like I need to move on, without him. I don't want to think about losing someone I love so much... I married him. I don't want to be with someone who, if they die, doesn't see that no one else would be financially affected... only me, and our children. Only I would be tasked with determining end of life stuff for him. Only I would be responsible for funeral arrangements, and only I would be financially responsible for sustaining a home for our family. The fact that we aren't on the same page with this is both shocking very painful.

I don't want to lose him. I don't want to come across as this blood-sucking gold-digger. I want nothing in our life to change. I only wish I could magically go back a couple days, and for him to feel the way I feel -- that he and I are our family. 

I wouldn't - for example - ever even think to list my sister as even a partial beneficiary on MY life insurance policy; her financial well-being has no relation to my life or death. And my sister isn't doing as financially well as my brother-in-law.

Feel free to add your two-sense. I do appreciate your thoughts,
LostSoul13


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hey As'laDain,
> 
> Thank you for your post!
> 
> ...


In my case, federal law trumps any conflicting state laws. SGLI.

I made my wife the sole beneficiary because I got pretty jaded with my parents chronic mismanagement of their own finances. If I die and they recieved all of it, I seriously doubt it would do them any good. They would blow it all and still be poor.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

First off, don't worry about the amount of money that the 5-10% would be. You'll also have access to savings, retirement accounts, assets, etc. Losing 5-10% of life insurance will not be noticeable or have a significant effect on your lifestyle. Sure it would be better to have more, but it's not really going to make that much of a difference. If it truly would cause a financial hardship, then you need to go back to work and build up assets. 

Also keep in mind that the policy is through is through his employer and there are many ways it can go away. It's only in effect as long as he's at that company. Even if he's with the company, the company itself may decide to drop the life insurance benefit. If having life insurance is that critical, you may instead want to get a standalone policy.

I think it's fine if he has some amount go to his family. They will be distraught if he dies. That 5-10% would be a nice gesture to help them get through the pain. Hopefully they would do something memorable with the money so they would always remember him by it.

But regardless of all this life insurance stuff, you should be working unless there is some compelling reason to stay home. You guys are likely no where near financially stable enough that your income is not needed. Even if it's not for daily expenses, your income can make huge inroads increasing savings and retirement expenses. I'm guessing you have no savings now after paying for undergrad, and now you have grad loans to pay off. You need money for the down payment of a house. If you have kids, you'll need $100,000 or more per kid for college. Just getting a kid to college age takes lots of money. The more you can make and save now, the better off you'll be later on.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Girl_power,
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> ...


Firstly why are you not working if you have no children? Secondly why should you be starting a separation process, did I miss something???Thirdly I do think its odd that he wouldn't want to leave you and any future children all of his life insurance but its not worth getting this stressed over it surely.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OK this is all over the place. You are thinking of leaving now because you are not on the same page about live insurance? Am I missing something? You are a SAHM but you don't have any kids?

Look you are entitled to think however you want to think about the life insurance as he is but you have to talk about it. I personally wouldn't have a problem with giving a little to my family if it was a large amount and I was sure my wife is going to be alright, but my wife is my priority. 

The simple answer is you need to talk to your husband about all these things, that's marriage.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

wilson said:


> First off, don't worry about the amount of money that the 5-10% would be. You'll also have access to savings, retirement accounts, assets, etc. Losing 5-10% of life insurance will not be noticeable or have a significant effect on your lifestyle. Sure it would be better to have more, but it's not really going to make that much of a difference. If it truly would cause a financial hardship, then you need to go back to work and build up assets.
> 
> Also keep in mind that the policy is through is through his employer and there are many ways it can go away. It's only in effect as long as he's at that company. Even if he's with the company, the company itself may decide to drop the life insurance benefit. If having life insurance is that critical, you may instead want to get a standalone policy.
> 
> ...


Hi Wilson,

Thanks for your reply.

1. We don't have any debts. I worked 7 days/week to pay off his undergraduate loans, and we aren't taking out loans for grad school. As stated, we're able to pay out of pocket. But no, since those payments are 4 times per year and $10,000 each, we are not in a position to buy a house until after he finishes.

2. We decided for me to leave my job since we were moving. We also have a small dog, and live in a major metropolitan area. It would cost about $50 to pay a dog walker, so between the move and the dent to my income to have a walker instead, plus we agreed we wanted to see how we'd do living on one income like we would be when we have kids, we decided I'd try being a housewife.

3. I don't see why anyone should receive life insurance benefits who doesn't depend on my husband's income. I will be the one who makes end of life decisions. I would be the one to make funeral arrangements, and I would be the only one left to sustain our home/family. I would shoulder any debts in his name if he had any. No one else would be financially affected by my husband's passing. Only me and any unborn child (or children in the case of multiples). His life insurance policy through work is equal to 9 year's pay... it's not sustainable for a lifetime, but is certainly significant enough that even 10% is substantial.... that 10% could cover a funeral, some chunk of college tuition, mortgage payments, childcare (because I will need to return to work), etc. Again, I'm not sure why anyone would list anyone other than a spouse/child as beneficiary, and in fact, it is so unusual, it requires my consent to do so.

I appreciate your advice. I'd like to know if you are married, and if so, if you carry life insurance, and if so, who is listed as beneficiary.

Thank you,
LostSoul13


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Tex,
> We are both 33, and I have said I'd prefer not to have kids when medically considered Advanced Maternal Age. You're medically considered Advanced Maternal Age if your DUE DATE is when you are age 35 or older. That is, if you become pregnant at age 34 and 3 months or later. Even so, every week he talks about having kids, even though he knows he won't be done with grad school for another 1+ years, and when he brought up adding his parents and brother to his life insurance policy and mentioned that his coworkers don't list their parents/siblings (only their spouse and children), he said "because I guess we're not having kids."


I don't think he changed his mind about wanting kids. I think he did the math and by the time he graduates you'll be at Advanced Maternal Age and you're very concerned about that, and I'm sure he's worried about that as well. He probably thinks that's a hard no for you so kids are off the table. Calm yourself down and sit down with your husband and talk about this. You guys are not communicating very well and you're definitely not on the same page right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Leftfield,
> 
> Yes, so my husband said to me that he wanted to add his parents and brother to his life insurance policy. I could tell he knew this isn't typically done by how he was talking. What's really striking about it, again, is that none of them will be financially affected in the event of his death -- only I would be (and any unborn child or children in the case of multiples). Life insurance policies list beneficiaries who would be financially affected by the insured person's death, or they list charities (a place in need of funds).
> 
> ...


I think there is a far greater problem than the life insurance, I think its that he doesn't want children. You have been together for 13 years and you are at an age now where waiting another year or two isn't a good idea. You may well take time to get pregnant after that, as many women do, especially as they get older. Many people bring up children with not much, I did, and there really is no need to have to get a certain standards of living first. Its often an excuse to delay it and delay it until its too late. The fact that you aren't even working and can still manage shows that you have enough money to have children, and if you went back to work till you have a child you could save up even more. 

I think that you need to go to a MC asap and find out for sure, but I honestly don't think he wants children at all. If that is the case then you need to choose whether to stay with a man who would have basically lied and deceived you all these years or leave and hope that you meet a man and can have children with him.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Wilson,
> 
> Thanks for your reply.
> 
> ...


What are you living on if you are not working and he is studying? Why cant you work part time, or when your husband is at home with the dog? Lots of people work and have dogs. 
I have never know any women who don't work before they have children.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

sokillme said:


> OK this is all over the place. You are thinking of leaving now because you are not on the same page about live insurance? Am I missing something? You are a SAHM but you don't have any kids?
> 
> Look you are entitled to think however you want to think about the life insurance as he is but you have to talk about it. I personally wouldn't have a problem with giving a little to my family if it was a large amount and I was sure my wife is going to be alright, but my wife is my priority.
> 
> The simple answer is you need to talk to your husband about all these things, that's marriage.


Hi SoKillMe,

So, the amount is equal to 9 year's pay... it would last roughly 9 years, not a lifetime. Obviously, I would need to return to work. Quite frankly, it's not about the amount, either.

If my husband passes, I would be the one saddled with any debts in either of our names. I would be the one to make end-of-life decisions. I would be the only one to make funeral arrangements, and I would be the only one responsible for sustaining our home/family/life.

No one else would be financially affected by my husband's death. This is why life insurance policy beneficiaries are the spouse/child(ren), and also why my consent is needed if any other beneficiary is to be listed.

10% could cover funeral costs, and pay of loans. It could be used to raise a child and/or cover childcare costs since I would need to return to work.

You're right: issues between spouses need to be discussed by those involved.
But I'd like to hear from someone - anyone - who is married with a life insurance policy, but hasn't listed their spouse as sole beneficiary.... I don't believe such a person exists, which is why this is a significant issue here.

-LostSoul13


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Tex X said:


> I don't think he changed his mind about wanting kids. I think he did the math and by the time he graduates you'll be at Advanced Maternal Age and you're very concerned about that, and I'm sure he's worried about that as well. He probably thinks that's a hard no for you so kids are off the table. Calm yourself down and sit down with your husband and talk about this. You guys are not communicating very well and you're definitely not on the same page right now.


Hi Tex,

I completely agree.

I guess I just don't even know where to begin with this talk. We haven't spoken in almost two days. I just feel so awful, and I'm so uncomfortable, and very hurt and upset.

But thank you.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

lostsoul13 said:


> But I'd like to hear from someone - anyone - who is married with a life insurance policy, but hasn't listed their spouse as sole beneficiary.... I don't believe such a person exists, which is why this is a significant issue here.


Why does it matter what anyone else does? If I sat here and lied and said my parents and brother are each getting 5% of my life insurance, would you feel better? Would the issue be magically resolved?


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> I couldn’t read anymore of your ranting when I got to the part that you wanted to start the divorce process over this 10%.
> 
> I think your a freak show. Ya’ll should surely be divorced but not for the reason you state.


Thanks for your position, Mr. Married.

But I'd like to know if there's anyone out there, who's married, with a life insurance policy, who doesn't have their spouse/children listed as sole beneficiaries. With rare exception, like with helping disabled extended family, I don't think this exists.... it's precisely why my signature is needed for consenting to anything else.

No one else will be financially impacted if my husband passes. Only I would be making end-of-life decisions. Only I would make funeral arrangements. Only I would be responsible for repaying debts in either of our names. Only I would be responsible for sustaining our home/life/family.

Life insurance as an establishment was created to assist those who would face financial hardship in the event a loved-one dies. It is not a will. 10% of some amount that would last roughly 9 years would cover things like debt-pay, funeral costs, and child-care while I returned to work. Life insurance is not intended to be received by people who do not depend on the insured's income for their own financial well-being.

I agree, my husband and I differ on an impactful ideal, and this is part of why I don't see us panning-out.

Best,


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I've been married for decades, have gotten kids through college, and have dealt with a lot of things. While I can understand your viewpoint about the insurance, I'm very concerned with how contentious and upsetting it has been for you. In the scope of the problems you'll face in a marriage, this is a minor and trivial thing to worry about. The fact that you're so firm in your belief and thinking about separating likely is an indication that future problems are going to cause major problems in your relationship. To be honest, I think having kids will likely lead to divorce. Having kids means there are continuous issues over parenting, along with the added stress kids bring. If thoughts of separating pop in your head because of the insurance, you need to be honest with yourself about how you'll feel about parenting disagreements with your H. There are going to be things that you guys will completely disagree about with regards to the kids, such as screen time, money, chores, discipline, etc. If this relatively minor insurance issue is making you think about leaving, then disagreements on how to raise the kids will have you running out the door.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

If your signature is needed then don’t sign the papers. What did your husband say when you told him you were uncomfortable with the idea? 


If you leave him then you are going to ha e to start dating all over again and it will be a long time before you can have a baby. Tell him your not going to sign the papers. And tell him you don’t want to wait to have a baby because who knows how long it will take to get pregnant and you don’t want to have one when your over 35 or whatever. You are part of this marriage to. Not everything he says has to go.


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## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

So for timeline context - did he mention naming his family as beneficiaries before or after the "Since we're not having kids" comment?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Based on your description, sounds like hubby is a little slow and deliberate on making decisions. But it sounds like he eventually comes around to a good choice (he married you). Perhaps you should give him some time on making a change to the life insurance beneficiaries. 

In my opinion this concern of yours does not rise to the level of separation/divorce. Most likely his parents will be dead when he passes away, so that's a moot point.

I'm my former career I was a casuilty assistance office for families of soldiers who died or were seriously injured during service. I can't begin to tell you how many times a deceased service member (sometimes married) decided to designate some or all of the life insurance/death gratuity to a person who was not immediate family. I saw fights at the funeral because if this. But it was all legal for them to choose a friend, roommate, neighbor, the NRA, right to life foundation, a stripper, etc. I still remember the look on Jasmine's (the stripper) face when I told her I had a check for her for $500,000.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

bobert said:


> Why does it matter what anyone else does? If I sat here and lied and said my parents and brother are each getting 5% of my life insurance, would you feel better? Would the issue be magically resolved?


If this was common practice -- listing able-bodied, financially unaffected relatives as beneficiaries on life insurance policies, I wouldn't even be discussing this.... To answer your question, I wouldn't have felt this way to begin with.

The point is that it's wildly outside the norm, so much so that adding others to my HUSBAND'S life insurance policy requires MY written consent.

The point is, it's not sensible. It's THAT unusual. It's something that makes you question who you've married (or what you've married into)....

Things that are outside the norm beg the question WHY.

We're not talking about a Will, here, where my husband wants to leave a sentimental car to his brother... we're talking about the income he would have otherwise earned for his wife/children, NOT other people. That life insurance is meant for those affected by his lost income.... Only I would be responsible for debts left in his name, only I would be left with end-of-life decisions, only I would make funeral arrangements, and only I would be responsible for sustaining our home/life/family.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I’m sorry but I think your being a little dramatic. He can do whatever he wants with his life insurance policy’s.
> 
> And I think that it would be in your best interest to get a job or start to pursue a career for yourself. It’s important that everyone be able to talk care of themselves at any given time. And you are putting a lot of pressure on your plan A to work out and plan A doesn’t always work out.
> 
> I was with my exH for 15 years. He is a surgeon, I had been with him since high school. I supported him and sacrificed for him while he did his schooling and residency..: let’s just say we are now divorced and is coincidentally happened right before he started making the big bucks. I got “screwed”. But luckily I had a plan B and I was focused on my own career path and I am doing great and very happy, and it could have been devastating.


He can do whatever he wants with his life insurance money, should he, to borrow an Australian term, Kark it. 

But the purpose behind a life insurance policy is to provide some level of financial support to the surviving spouse and any children. Not to gift all or part of it to various relatives. 

Who benefits from my workplace life insurance policy? My wife. And nobody else.

If I told my family that I'd decided to give them a percentage of my life insurance payout they would, quite rightly, tell me to **** off and tell me to make sure my wife was the sole beneficiary of the policy. 

I have never heard of such a bonkers and bizarre idea.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

All she can do is talk to her husband about it and see what’s going through his head. I honestly I don’t know what the problem is, talk to your husband and tell him why that doesn’t make sense.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

The OP is blowing it out of proportion which usually means there is something underlying going on. Maybe something she fears 
That is going to happen or is happening. I think that is the bigger issue here, not the insurance policy which all she has to do is tell him no, and explain why not.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You're repeating yourself in every post. To me this indicates that you are extremely upset, to the point of hand-wringing despair. In my opinion, this despair is about bigger things than 15% of a hypothetical life insurance payout from the very unlikely death of a young, healthy man.

What you are so thrown by is the apparent realization that your assumptions about your future are not the same as your husband's. 

These are big things - having children, supporting a family, committing to a serious family lifestyle going forward.

I think you should focus on clarifying these things with your husband. The life insurance is a symbolic stand-in for the deeper issues.

Set aside time for a mutually respectful, honest discussion on what you want for your future. Do you agree on the plans for having and raising children? If not, can you reach agreement?

Also - when the children come, both of you should have life insurance. (I bet that he will change his mind on beneficiaries once he's a father.)


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Tex X said:


> So for timeline context - did he mention naming his family as beneficiaries before or after the "Since we're not having kids" comment?


Hi Tex,

Essentially, the "since we're not having kids" comment was within this very short conversation, re: adding others to the life insurance policy, but technically, it was said after.... immediately after... it was something like, "I'm going to add my brother and parents as beneficiaries to my life insurance policy, like 5% each." At first I barely flinched, and didn't think very much of it, but within seconds, thoughts started running-through my head, like how my husband said it, cautiously... not cautiously bc he was worried how I'd react, but cautiously, like he knew he's saying he wants to do something abnormal, and then I quickly started realizing 1. I'm the only one responsible for paying debts in either of our names, that his life insurance wouldn't sustain our life long (it's equal to 9 years' salary), if I'm pregnant, I'm going to need to go back to work regardless, but if I do have a child (or children in the case of multiple pregnancy), and God forbid I lose my husband, I will need childcare while I work, and then it dawned on me that end of life decisions would be solely on me, funeral arrangements, and our home/family/life would be solely my financial responsibility, and then it hit me that no one else depends on my husband's salary. Just me and any potential child(ren). His parents and brother are not financially affected while my husband is alive nor would they be if he died. So.... while sitting there, after initially shrugging my shoulders when he first said what he planned to do, his laptop still in front of him (Open Enrollment ends next Wednesday, so that's when any/all changes need to be made by) I asked why, to which he had no response regarding his brother. He only said that, regarding his parents, something like "in case I die and they need money because of their health." To which I responded something like, but everyone's fine, and we don't give part of your pay to anyone. No one is in need. Life insurance is for people who depend on your salary, like whoever uses your paycheck to survive." And then, having all those other thoughts having just flooded over me, I asked since he's very close with his coworkers, if he knew if any of them listed parents or siblings on their policies, and his response was that he knows they do not; they list their spouse and children, he said, and then he said, "Since we're not having kids...." just like that... implying that we're not going to, so he can/should list other family members he feels like on the life insurance.
Considering every week he talks about how he wants a baby, just not this next year, and that all this time, I thought we're doing this (paying for grad school so he can feel more financially secure for a family, me trialing staying home to see how we manage), and for what? Like, what am I doing home? And then I felt it: What am I doing here/in this bizarre marriage? I could barely speak. I'm not even sure I said anything or much of anything, whereas, normally, when we face issues, I have a lot to say, and I'm usually pretty vocal. It was like my breath was gone this time, though. I literally felt like we were talking about things that marriages end over, not about life insurance.
I felt all kinds of hurt in one moment. I realized that I'm 33, nearly 34, and that it would be so difficult to start over. In fact, I don't even imagine it possible. It's not something that I need, I guess, but -- having been together for 13 years, I saw this life we'd built and planned just coming apart. I did not threaten "Well if you do this, then I want a divorce," but I think I muttered "I feel like we're talking about what people talk about when they decide to get divorced." Yes, I did say something like that, I know I did because, even though it was barely audible (again, unusual for me), I got up from the couch, completely saddened, and went to the bedroom... He came in later and said he doesn't want a divorce and tried to hug me.... so I know I said the word. So that was the entire conversation. We really haven't spoken since, and that was two days ago. I haven't been eating. I've spent most of that time in bed, but haven't been able to sleep. I've showered, and done dishes, and made food for our beagle (he's 9), and taken him for walks, and today, I've been on the computer, here on this forum... so I'm not non-functional, but I feel like my relationship is broken, and I'm devastated.

Contrary to popular belief, I don't "do nothing all day," even on normal days....

We have a 9 year old beagle, who I walk several times/day. He's also had some issues since having major surgery and he sleeps in bed with us, so I do laundry every day. I do dishes three times/day, and clean our apartment. I make at least a couple meals/day, and work-out a little. I also volunteer at the animal shelter, do any errands, and handle our finances. Time still flies being a housewife.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

alte Dame said:


> You're repeating yourself in every post. To me this indicates that you are extremely upset, to the point of hand-wringing despair. In my opinion, this despair is about bigger things than 15% of a hypothetical life insurance payout from the very unlikely death of a young, healthy man.
> 
> What you are so thrown by is the apparent realization that your assumptions about your future are not the same as your husband's.
> 
> ...


Atle Dame, 

Your post is so SO much appreciated. Yes, I completely agree!!

Set aside time for a mutually respectful, honest discussion on what you want for your future. Do you agree on 
the plans for having and raising children? If not, can you reach agreement?

Also - when the children come, both of you should have life insurance. (I bet that he will change his mind on 
beneficiaries once he's a father.)

I couldn't agree more with your thoughts/plan. It also makes me feel hopeful, so thank you.

Note, the only reason I'm repeating a lot of what I'm posting is bc it's apparent people aren't reading my original post or my responses to others, which I understand... I don't expect ppl to read my responses to each individual, and felt the points are significant at least when I respond to individuals' comments... I do feel like it's having the same conversation multiple times, but I don't feel it's okay for me to troubled by someone's response if they haven't read my points either.... just trying to dot i's and cross t's, I guess, albeit time-consuming.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

lostsoul13 said:


> If this was common practice -- listing able-bodied, financially unaffected relatives as beneficiaries on life insurance policies, I wouldn't even be discussing this.... To answer your question, I wouldn't have felt this way to begin with.
> 
> The point is that it's wildly outside the norm, so much so that adding others to my HUSBAND'S life insurance policy requires MY written consent.
> 
> ...


Wow, I'm not sure what world you live in, but not only is this not "wildly outside the norm"...it's fairly typical! Yes, people do often name their spouse at least 50% primary beneficiary, but they just as often name a parent or sibling with a percentage, a bank or trust with a percentage, a charity with a percentage, and/or some other person who would have some financial need after they pass such as naming even an exH or exW if there are children involved from the former marriage (some courts order this in a divorce). What IS "wildly outside the norm" is your reaction! I am quite literally stunned!

It's not only sensible--it's pretty USUAL! I looked up on Google the term: "who are typical life insurance beneficiaries?" and that's where I discovered a whole list of people who are often named as beneficiaries: parents, siblings, children, a trust for the children, the ex-spouse on behalf of the children, a custodian for the children, a bank, a business partnership (the entity, not the person), a corporation, a charity...even a "secret lover"!! 

In our instance, Beloved Hubby and I just married within this year. He has life insurance on him through work, and life insurance on me through his work. My life insurance names only him because the amount is primarily for burial costs (other than that, I'm debt free). His life insurance and WILL name me and his children and what amount or percent he'd like us to share, so that his children inherit and benefit from his hard-earned work, but also so he has peace of mind I'll be okay and they will be too! The understanding is that if he were to pre-decease his mom, that as a family, the kids and I would use his insurance and inheritance to take care of her. 

Finally, as a widow who just went through all this only two years ago, you are coming across as VERY close-minded. When a person passes, there are TONS of expenses that you just don't think of when you're alive. Social Security Death Benefit is a joke, and there will be final bills from the hospital for the care given, from the mortuary for services rendered, from the selection of coffin or urn, from the choice of burial plot and headstone (even ashes are buried)... You don't know what expenses his parents or his siblings might incur to fly to the funeral, pay for flowers, pay for a memorial service, pay for the reception after services, etc. and all that would come from the 5% he is alloting them in this huge life insurance policy. 

So here's what I don't get: you don't work and you don't yet have any children. His life insurance is 9x his current salary--so using easy figures let's guess it's $50k/year...so we're talking about a total insurance of $450k. 5% is $22,500...10% (for both the parents and the sibling) is $45,000....and you'd still get $405,000!!! So seriously? You are going to SEPARATE and DIVORCE, because as a lady with no job and no children AT THIS MOMENT you'd get $405k instead of the full $450k? 

Seriously, there is something more going on here and it's not him being "wildly outside the norm."


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Matt Matt, 

Two words:

Thank you.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

FYI I am an insurance agent, have been for 30 years. 

1. He does not need your permission to list Garfield Goose as a beneficiary, if the OWNER of the policy (usually the insured but not always) says he can. Maybe you are going to be the owner, that would be a bit different, but if you are not the owner, nobody is looking to you for your approval on the legal side. What you may be thinking of is with his pension, there are a number of payout options that would require your signature,as his spouse, but that has nothing to do with life insurance.

2. Not that unusual in my experience for small amounts to be paid to certain people. He loves them and wants to do something for them, I get that completely. If the loss of 15% of your death benefit would create a hardship, then you should buy more! At your age, assuming good health, $500k can be as cheap as $20 a month or less.

3. Seems to me you are being WAY to concerned. First off, easy fix (see #2) second, why are you so worked up about it? You seem to me to be LOOKING for a problem.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I’m so confused. This could all be a misunderstanding. Why don’t you ask him or text him... do you want kids with me? Is that the plan? 
You shouldn’t let days go by without clarifying things.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

I still can't past the fact that your only 34, have no kids and have no job. You stay home to take care of a 9 year old dog and a one BR apartment? Then you think you have a right to tell your husband who he can and can't leave his money to? He is the one that is working and he is free to make that decision. Your sense of entitlement is so very strong. Forget having kids, that would be a huge mistake in this relationship. Give up this fight, because you are wrong. Get a full time job, start working as a partner in this marriage and then, if all goes well, decide if it's time to have kids. Or blow it up and start over with someone new. That could take more time then repairing your broken marriage and your broken way of thinking.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Not reading any other post, your H is ungrateful and he has put you off of a family to please himself only. And it shows his desire to include his family. This is wrong in so many ways it's amazing you have hung in there. You deserve it all, and as far as his family is concerned who gives a hoot. You H needs to grow up in the way a husband should. He has not and now asked for something that is not even loving, and is thoughtless at the minimum. Stand your ground and defend you ownership in your marriage. Because he will bring more excuses for reasons of not being the family he promised you.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

OP I hate to say it but you need a hard dose of reality. You and I are the same age. I too wanted nothing more than a family and kids. I am divorced and childless and starting over. The difference between us though is that I always worked, and had a plan B because I knew it’s not ok to depend on anyone. 

You are acting very immature for a 33 year old. Your acting like a dramatic teenager. Talk to your husband and come to a conclusion about what you both want In the marriage. All you can do is be honest, communicate, be a good person and make the best decisions based off the information that you have at hand.

Another thing is that you say you guys want to be financially secure before having kids... so why not get a job and become financially secure faster. I mean help your husband out.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Affaircare,

I appreciate your response....

Yes, people list ALL kinds of people or places as beneficiaries.... if they don't have dependents....

People list parents and/or siblings as beneficiaries if the insured is not married and/or does not have any children. Or they list them if the insured currently helps them financially.... like in cases where a person regularly shares his income to help another person out... like someone in the family who's become disabled, for instance.

People most always list their children, whether they currently reside with them or have divorced.

People currently married with or without children DO NOT list others! It's why spousal consent is required to do so!

So, of course you're right: There's a plethora of insurance beneficiaries. 
If I weren't married, I'd list my parents/siblings.

Even YOU DON'T LIST OTHERS as your beneficiaries!! ONLY YOUR SPOUSE/CHILDREN.

I'm laughing right now because you proved my point!

You even go on to write about all the expenses RELATED to end of life for a spouse that ONLY the spouse would be responsible for! I said, only I would be left with my husband's end of life decisions, financially responsible for any/all funeral expenses....

As far as family and expenses they'd incur to attend a funeral, we live a quick drive from all family. No one would be flying anywhere. Just like if you had a family member pass, I'm sure you wouldn't expect to have your travel expenses or the flowers you send covered in your share of life insurance left to you by them, would you?! If anything truly is wildly outside the norm, that's it!

Yes, your numbers are off, by the way.... none of the people who do not currently receive any amount of my husband's pay are in any position of financial need. If they were in financial need, we would be helping them financially! And it WOULD make sense in that case to name them as part beneficiaries! All I have left to say here is that the 10% is substantial. No one but those who depend on my husband's salary should be listed as beneficiary to life insurance benefits. It's entirely not sensible. I, and any unborn children of ours, are the sole dependents of his salary. Again, this is why if he wants to name anyone else as beneficiary in part or in full, he needs spousal consent.
I alone would be responsible for mortuary, mortician, funeral arrangements, including reception, I would burden any debts in his name, I would be responsible for end of life care, and I would be solely responsible for sustaining our home/life/family, NOT HIS PARENTS OR BROTHER.

You write of your current marriage, "The understanding is that if he were to pre-decease his mom, that as a family, the kids and I would use his insurance and inheritance to take care of her." I would do exactly the same! I feel exactly as you do! If you and I really aren't in agreement over who is listed as beneficiary, why, then, doesn't your husband list his mother on his policy?! Maybe because, as I've been saying, it's NOT APPROPRIATE. Do you not agree? If not, please express to your new husband how you'd really think it's best to list her as a beneficiary.... still laughing.... 

I can't believe you think I'M the one who's not in the right here, all the while YOU ARE LIVING PROOF that spouses do NOT LIST their parents or siblings as beneficiaries on their life insurance policies; they only list those who are financially dependent on them.

Can't stop laughing... thank you for this. I think I needed that laugh.

P.S. The 9x his pay will be used for any unborn children we have, their college funds, our housing payments, funeral expenses and related costs. 9 years's salary is not equivalent to his working-life-expectancy.... ALL of it would be used (and more needed) for his immediate family's use... not his almost-retired parents who are financially stable (they take trips around the world, and buy luxury cars every couple years) or his fully-employed, able-bodied baby brother who has no family of his own and no bills to pay either... it will not be used as gifts for those who do NOT NEED his salary in order to prevent financial detriment. It will ONLY be used for life-insurance purposes, which IS for those who DEPEND on his regular earnings to prevent financial demise. Yes, I would rather separate and divorce and have none of these benefits than stay married to someone who doesn't realize how to appropriate funds/wants to gift his parents and brother 10% of life insurance benefits that they do not need, while his wife, who put him through school/paid off his undergraduate loans, cares for his unborn children and stopped working to do this with/for him.... and then be ridiculed by people who practice the same damn thing she is! You don't list your parents/siblings or other people who aren't dependent on your salary as life insurance beneficiaries IF YOU HAVE DEPENDENTS WHO DO.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

RebuildingMe said:


> I still can't past the fact that your only 34, have no kids and have no job. You stay home to take care of a 9 year old dog and a one BR apartment? Then you think you have a right to tell your husband who he can and can't leave his money to? He is the one that is working and he is free to make that decision. Your sense of entitlement is so very strong. Forget having kids, that would be a huge mistake in this relationship. Give up this fight, because you are wrong. Get a full time job, start working as a partner in this marriage and then, if all goes well, decide if it's time to have kids. Or blow it up and start over with someone new. That could take more time then repairing your broken marriage and your broken way of thinking.


Hi Rebuildingme,

I'm 33, and fairly recently stopped working because we move frequently anyway, husband and I both wanted to start trialing seeing how we'll do off just his income, since we both planned for me to be home when we have children, and paying for a dog-walker is enough of a dent to my take-home pay that - coupled with these other things - it didn't make that much sense for me to keep working. (We live in a metropolitan area. Our dog's care would be $60/day).

I worked 7 days/week so that we could pay-off his undergraduate student loans. With your line of thinking "I can't tell him what to do with HIS money"... whose money was that?? I - like normal married people, not to mention the government - view income as OUR money, not mine or his.... Notice how I've consistently said WE paid off his undergraduate loans when we married in ALL of my posts?? Also note, in our state, his paycheck belongs equally to married partners, which is why anything that is paid directly with his paycheck is equally mine, including his life insurance policy, which is why he needs MY written consent if he wants to list anyone besides me as a beneficiary.....


Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I don’t understand why your being so mean. Why come on here and ask for peoples opinions then yell and laugh at them when their opinion is different than yours? 

Enjoy starting over at 34 because of your stubbornness.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hoosier said:


> FYI I am an insurance agent, have been for 30 years.
> 
> 1. He does not need your permission to list Garfield Goose as a beneficiary, if the OWNER of the policy (usually the insured but not always) says he can. Maybe you are going to be the owner, that would be a bit different, but if you are not the owner, nobody is looking to you for your approval on the legal side. What you may be thinking of is with his pension, there are a number of payout options that would require your signature,as his spouse, but that has nothing to do with life insurance.
> 
> ...


Hoosier,

Thanks for your response.

As you may be aware, you do need spousal consent in some states.
This is from NOLO.com:

"In Community Property States, Don't Forget Your Spouse

But if you live in a community property state and want to name someone else, get your spouse's consent, in writing. The reason is that if you buy a life insurance policy with community funds—your wages, for example—then it belongs to both you and your spouse."

Also, we do/did plan on purchasing even more life insurance, but only once we have/had (a) child(ren). We're just maxing his employer-sponsored offer right now, which yes, is a very inexpensive, solid benefit.

Best,


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

lostsoul13 said:


> "In Community Property States, Don't Forget Your Spouse
> 
> But if you live in a community property state and want to name someone else, get your spouse's consent, in writing. The reason is that if you buy a life insurance policy with community funds—your wages, for example—then it belongs to both you and your spouse.


Ah. I see where the misunderstanding may come from. Even in a community property state, the spouse may only be entitled to 50% of the benefit. The other 50% would be owned by the policy owner. So he could likely give away 50% of the benefits. 



> With term life insurance, the entire policy is considered community property -- which would give the spouse the right to 50 percent of the death benefit -- if income earned during the marriage were used to pay the most recent premium. The other 50 percent would go to the named beneficiary.


Talk to a lawyer rather than message board people to clarify your situation. This is obviously very important to you. I believe that you're mistaken if you think you are legally entitled to 100% of the proceeds because you are in a community property state. I think it's the case that you're legally entitled to at least 50%, but not necessarily 100% of the benefit.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

While reading your post, a few things jumped out at me, so I want to help you to understand what you're thinking. I haven't read many of the responses, so please forgive if someone already pointed these out.



lostsoul13 said:


> In some states, anything earned by either spouse is considered spousal-property. For example, husband's pay from work is considered equally the husband's and his spouse's. So, anything paid directly from his paycheck is considered his spouse's, too, like - for example - benefits that are paid directly by his paycheck, including the life-insurance benefit offered through his employer.


You can't just say "in some states" because this applies only to community property states. You first have to determine if the state you live in is a community property state. The community property states are:

Arizona
California
Idaho
Louisiana
Nevada
New Mexico
Texas
Washington
Wisconsin

Alaska and Tennessee have an "opt-in" clause to the state's community property laws.



lostsoul13 said:


> Because his paycheck and anything that is directly paid with it is considered equal property to both spouse's, if the policy-owner wants to name other parties as beneficiaries, the spouse's signature is required in order to do so.


This is only partially true. Again, it applies only to community property states. Additionally, even in the CP states, a spouse is only entitled to half of the insurance policy. In other words, your husband can name whomever he wants as beneficiary(ies) so long as he includes you as beneficiary to at least half of the benefit amount. In this case, your signature is NOT required on the beneficiary portion of the application or form.

On the other hand, CP states do not permit him to exclude you. If he wants to name others without naming you as beneficiary to at least half of the benefit amount, then your signature IS required. This is to inform the insurance company that you are aware that you are not a named beneficiary to your husband's insurance policy.



lostsoul13 said:


> It seems clear to me that listing beneficiaries other than spouses/children is highly unusual. I was always under the impression that life insurance is to benefit those who would otherwise suffer financially in the case of the insured's death.....But mostly, I just feel like sh*t because I have a husband who obviously didn't think this idea isn't appropriate.... Straight up -- it's not normal. It just isn't done. It's so outside the norm, MY signature is needed to agree to it. The other crazy part is he's not even aware it's so outside the norm that my signature is needed for consent; he just thinks he's being a thoughtful son/brother.


As you can see based on what I described above, it's not so unusual and is done often enough that it isn't so inappropriate nor unusual. I used to manage insurance policies, so that's the reason I was able to clarify your line of thinking. But it does appear that you and your husband don't share the same philosophy regarding who should benefit from his insurance policy. I do understand how you feel about it, but he has the right, as the law provides, to his own feelings about it as well. Many people, if not most, are of your same philosophy. And many are of his.



lostsoul13 said:


> benefit-options can only be changed once/year during "open enrollment," or AFTER a major life-event, like having a baby....


This also is only partially true. It is true that enrollment is only once a year. However, he can change his beneficiary at any he wants. He only has to call his employer's office, the insurance company, or the third-party administrator (whoever manages the accounts), and they will send him a beneficiary change form, which he will receive within 10 or 11 days. Once he completes it and sends it back to them, they will stamp it to confirm, add it to his physical and/or electronic record, and send him a stamped and insurance company representative-signed confirmation.




lostsoul13 said:


> Also note, if someone IS disabled, for example, and receives any kind of government assistance, AND is a beneficiary of a life-insurance payout, they become DISQUALIFIED for that assistance....


I would say this is a moot issue. It has nothing to do with you or your circumstances. Hypothetical anecdotes only apply if they do, indeed, apply. This doesn't apply, so it was pointless to introduce as an analogy or as part of your argument.



lostsoul13 said:


> I just feel like there are so many reasons NOT to list other people on a life insurance policy. It seems really obvious to me why it's not done... and having a husband who wants to do this thing that isn't normal really makes me feel... empty. I'd rather not be in this relationship. I feel lost, and I'd rather have nothing. After 13 years, it just feels really painful. I'm not even eating. In the past 48 hours, I've had one Cup of Noodles (that ramen cup thing). I'm hungry, but I don't want to eat.
> 
> So... how should I feel? Am I a psychotic, selfish, greedy wench?
> And... what should I do?
> ...


You clearly feel very strongly about it, but I'd say that just how strongly you feel really isn't worth 10% of an insurance policy. I wouldn't say you are psychotic, selfish, or a greedy wench based on this because I do understand your logic. However, you and your husband seem to have a good working relationship so if something like this one issue makes you want to throw it away, then it makes you seem quite immature to say the least. It boils down to being a simple matter of you and he don't agree and you can't have your way. That's all really.

I suggest you save your hard-line stance for something of much greater significance than this....like if he says he wants to name his parents and brother to 50% of the policy......or if he says he wants to have a threesome lol (for I all I know, you might be game for that idea).

For me, leaving my job and my own financial independence would be of much greater significance. I wouldn't care what the circumstances were. There's no way I would be financially dependent on a man. I think it is the stupidest thing in the world that women do TO themselves. And I don't give a darn how many or what percentage of women make that stupid decision. It may be 50% as you say, but way more than 50% have lived to regret it and wish they had options. If you really wanted to leave him over this or over a considerably worse offense (such as cheating) and wanted to walk out the door right now, what options would you have except to continue sulking?

Anyway, adjust your attitude over the insurance beneficiaries. It's hardly the worst thing on earth.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

lostsoul13 said:


> But I'd like to know if there's anyone out there, who's married, with a life insurance policy, who doesn't have their spouse/children listed as sole beneficiaries.


It happened to me. And I didn't even know I wasn't the primary beneficiary until my husband had been dead for several months. Sure, his will said I got everything. But the name of the beneficiary on ANYTHING trumps a will.

So I was surprised when I started going through his emails after he died to discover his small army life insurance policy went to his mother. Surprise, surprise, surprise. And there's not a damn thing I could do about it. So his 90 year old mother got the $25K.

As I dug through a number of his accounts, I discovered he listed no beneficiary. In that case, I used his will and certified death certificate (along with our marriage license) to get the funds.

I will tell you this from dealing with a number of family members over money: People will surprise the crap out of you.

And while I don't agree with what your husband is doing, in theory, he still has the right to designate whoever he wants as beneficiary. I think your problems are about a helluva lot more than this life insurance policy. I'd also put off having kids until you two are singing on the same page. Seriously.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

lostsoul13 said:


> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> > I still can't past the fact that your only 34, have no kids and have no job. You stay home to take care of a 9 year old dog and a one BR apartment? Then you think you have a right to tell your husband who he can and can't leave his money to? He is the one that is working and he is free to make that decision. Your sense of entitlement is so very strong. Forget having kids, that would be a huge mistake in this relationship. Give up this fight, because you are wrong. Get a full time job, start working as a partner in this marriage and then, if all goes well, decide if it's time to have kids. Or blow it up and start over with someone new. That could take more time then repairing your broken marriage and your broken way of thinking.
> ...


They way you try to see if you can live off of one salary, is to try and live off of one salary. Quitting your job was not necessary for this test and was a mistake. Your not even pregnant yet. 

Yes, it’s both of your money. I’m just not seeing what benefit your husband is getting out of this marriage. A SAHW (stay at home wife, that’s a new one) who questions how he spends “your” money that HE earns? What’s in this for him?

You seem to be a planner. Planning out both educations, livings arrangements, trial run on being a SHAM, funeral expenses when he dies, etc. I think you might have to now plan for a divorce, over something fairly unimportant.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Affaircare,
> 
> I appreciate your response....
> 
> Yes, people list ALL kinds of people or places as beneficiaries.... if they don't have dependents....


And YOU don't have dependents. Not right now. There is YOU and there is HIM. According to you, you are perfectly capable of starting again in your career. Soooo... why can he not leave a little to his parents and siblings again? I don't see any dependents yet. 



> People list parents and/or siblings as beneficiaries if the insured is not married and/or does not have any children. Or they list them if the insured currently helps them financially.... like in cases where a person regularly shares his income to help another person out... like someone in the family who's become disabled, for instance.
> 
> People most always list their children, whether they currently reside with them or have divorced.
> 
> People currently married with or without children DO NOT list others! It's why spousal consent is required to do so!


I literally can not say this any more plainly: you are wrong. That means you are not correct. People can AND DO list parents, siblings, banks, business entitites and charities as beneficiaries WHEN THEY ARE MARRIED AND HAVE CHILDREN. Even when the parents, siblings, banks, businesses and charities are not financially dependent, people CAN AND DO share with others. 

Now I won't argue that very, very often people list their spouse, children, or a trust for their children, but that does not EXCLUDE the other options, and the other options are not rare, freak occurences but rather, fairly typical and fairly normal. 



> So, of course you're right: There's a plethora of insurance beneficiaries.
> If I weren't married, I'd list my parents/siblings.
> 
> Even YOU DON'T LIST OTHERS as your beneficiaries!! ONLY YOUR SPOUSE/CHILDREN.
> ...


I don't list anyone because my life insurance benefit is $20k for burial purposes only. How in the world would I split that up? My Beloved Hubby has one year of his salary (not NINE) and he itemized who he wants to receive what. Then again, I work full time and I not only provide for myself and my own expenses, I contribute savings to our household. 



> You even go on to write about all the expenses RELATED to end of life for a spouse that ONLY the spouse would be responsible for! I said, only I would be left with my husband's end of life decisions, financially responsible for any/all funeral expenses....
> 
> As far as family and expenses they'd incur to attend a funeral, we live a quick drive from all family. No one would be flying anywhere. Just like if you had a family member pass, I'm sure you wouldn't expect to have your travel expenses or the flowers you send covered in your share of life insurance left to you by them, would you?! If anything truly is wildly outside the norm, that's it!


Nope, not only a spouse. You think only the spouse chooses the casket? You think only a spouse pays for the memorial or the reception afterward? How about catering the reception? How about DECORATING the reception? You think only the spouse chooses a headstone? Lucky for you, it appears you've never had anyone near you pass away!

Jeez, you are infuriating and clearly have no idea what you're talking about! There might be costs to fly in people--whether they were on vacation out of town, or just had moved by then. There might be costs for hotel or car rental to come to the funeral. And honestly, he may just want to be sure that THEY are taken care of a little after he passes just like YOU. What if he's just being kind enough to say "Hey it's for 9 times my annual salary! I'll give mom and dad a little for their sorrow, and bro and sis a little to be kind, and she'll still get 8 times my salary." AND there are no dependents yet! NONE!! 



> Yes, your numbers are off, by the way.... none of the people who do not currently receive any amount of my husband's pay are in any position of financial need. If they were in financial need, we would be helping them financially! And it WOULD make sense in that case to name them as part beneficiaries! All I have left to say here is that the 10% is substantial. No one but those who depend on my husband's salary should be listed as beneficiary to life insurance benefits. It's entirely not sensible. I, and any unborn children of ours, are the sole dependents of his salary. Again, this is why if he wants to name anyone else as beneficiary in part or in full, he needs spousal consent.


So I'll say, yet again, that you are wrong. He can give away his money to a hooker if that is what he wants to do. He can be a jerk. He can waste it. AND your claim that it's a community property state and thus you get it all, is just not true. In a community property state, both spouses own equally any income earned during the marriage and any property purchased with that income. That includes life insurance policies. If a spouse uses "community property" to pay the life insurance premiums, his or her spouse has the right to a portion of the life insurance proceeds. With term life insurance, the entire policy is considered community property -- which would give the spouse the right to *50 percent of the death benefit* -- if income earned during the marriage were used to pay the most recent premium. The other 50 percent would go to the named beneficiary. With permanent life insurance, such as whole life or universal life, the proceeds are prorated according to the percentage of premiums paid with "community" money. So your best case scenario would be that you'd have a right to 50% of the life insurance--he has 100% the right to give the other 50% to anyone under the sun. They don't have to prove they are financially dependent or anything either--just that there was some sort of financial "interest" in the person's passing. 



> I alone would be responsible for mortuary, mortician, funeral arrangements, including reception, I would burden any debts in his name, I would be responsible for end of life care, and I would be solely responsible for sustaining our home/life/family, NOT HIS PARENTS OR BROTHER.


My only comment is this--would you forcibly exclude his family? Or have you lived in a world where family doesn't come together and help each other through tragedies? Because when my hubby died over the course of five years, it wasn't just me. Family helped me care for him. My parents chipped in to help with his final arrangements. My kids helped me choose things. His brothers and mom worked on flowers and catering. His kids helped with obituary and eulogy. Some heard I got a final bill for ___ and just chipped in. This is why he wants to give them a little, because they are part of the family that would go to bat WITH YOU if he passed. You are the one closing the door on them. 



> You write of your current marriage, "The understanding is that if he were to pre-decease his mom, that as a family, the kids and I would use his insurance and inheritance to take care of her." I would do exactly the same! I feel exactly as you do! If you and I really aren't in agreement over who is listed as beneficiary, why, then, doesn't your husband list his mother on his policy?! Maybe because, as I've been saying, it's NOT APPROPRIATE. Do you not agree? If not, please express to your new husband how you'd really think it's best to list her as a beneficiary.... still laughing....
> 
> I can't believe you think I'M the one who's not in the right here, all the while YOU ARE LIVING PROOF that spouses do NOT LIST their parents or siblings as beneficiaries on their life insurance policies; they only list those who are financially dependent on them.
> 
> Can't stop laughing... thank you for this. I think I needed that laugh.


So you came to an anonymous forum, asked "is this reasonable?" and then laughed at those who took the time to reply. Good luck--with an attitude like that you are going to need it! 



> P.S. The 9x his pay will be used for any unborn children we have, their college funds, our housing payments, funeral expenses and related costs. 9 years's salary is not equivalent to his working-life-expectancy.... ALL of it would be used (and more needed) for his immediate family's use... not his almost-retired parents who are financially stable (they take trips around the world, and buy luxury cars every couple years) or his fully-employed, able-bodied baby brother who has no family of his own and no bills to pay either... it will not be used as gifts for those who do NOT NEED his salary in order to prevent financial detriment. It will ONLY be used for life-insurance purposes, which IS for those who DEPEND on his regular earnings to prevent financial demise. Yes, I would rather separate and divorce and have none of these benefits than stay married to someone who doesn't realize how to appropriate funds/wants to gift his parents and brother 10% of life insurance benefits that they do not need, while his wife, who put him through school/paid off his undergraduate loans, cares for his unborn children and stopped working to do this with/for him.... and then be ridiculed by people who practice the same damn thing she is! You don't list your parents/siblings or other people who aren't dependent on your salary as life insurance beneficiaries IF YOU HAVE DEPENDENTS WHO DO.


In other words...since you have no dependents, no children, no college funds, and a 1 bedroom apartment, YOU NEED IT ALL and you are unwilling to share with those who might have helped you in the case of tragedy...or who knew him longer than you did...or who he loved and wanted the share with. 

Again, I wish you well with your future life. With an attitude like that you will likely end up divorced. And just so you know, if my Beloved Hubby wanted to include his mom as a beneficiary right now...today...I would be overjoyed that she was financially cared for. I would love him for being thoughtful toward her. Honestly, she could have it ALL because the part I'd be missing is HIM...not his salary.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Starfires,

I appreciate your input. 

I only fairly recently stopped working; it would take me no time at all to hop right back in.

Thanks again,
LostSoul13


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Who has NINE times their salary without kids? This is how all of those Dateline episodes start out...


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

MAJDEATH said:


> Based on your description, sounds like hubby is a little slow and deliberate on making decisions. But it sounds like he eventually comes around to a good choice (he married you). Perhaps you should give him some time on making a change to the life insurance beneficiaries.
> 
> In my opinion this concern of yours does not rise to the level of separation/divorce. Most likely his parents will be dead when he passes away, so that's a moot point.
> 
> I'm my former career I was a casuilty assistance office for families of soldiers who died or were seriously injured during service. I can't begin to tell you how many times a deceased service member (sometimes married) decided to designate some or all of the life insurance/death gratuity to a person who was not immediate family. I saw fights at the funeral because if this. But it was all legal for them to choose a friend, roommate, neighbor, the NRA, right to life foundation, a stripper, etc. I still remember the look on Jasmine's (the stripper) face when I told her I had a check for her for $500,000.


Hi Majdeath,

Thank you. My husband DOES take time with decisions. Thank you for reminding me of this; he does usually state a thought, and then edit over time before coming to a final decision on many things.

And your note about the stripper made me laugh, which I needed, so thank you for that too 

Husband and I just talked.... I will be posting an update shortly.

Cheers,


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Who has NINE times their salary without kids? This is how all of those Dateline episodes start out...




I was thinking the same thing!! It sounds like she is planning on murdering him! But since she’s only getting 90% he isn’t worth it.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> RebuildingMe said:
> 
> 
> > Who has NINE times their salary without kids? This is how all of those Dateline episodes start out...
> ...


She have to kill his mother and brother first!


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

In reading more of the responses, I'm wondering why you keeping bringing up having kids/family as part of your reasons to be entitled to the whole policy. I have come to the same conclusion that it appears your husband has, which is that you guys won't be having any children. You told him that you "prefer not to have kids when medically considered Advanced Maternal Age." Yet, you guys decided not to have kids until he finishes school. Since you know, and stated, that he won't be finished for 1+ more years and you will be 35-ish then, it is understandable for him to conclude kids are off the table. So why do you keep bringing it up about you and the kids his policy will have to support when this was your decision?

Why have you and he not spoken in 2 days? Are you sulking and giving him the silent treatment?

Something else you're not thinking about is after he earns his master's degree, he will soon begin earning considerably more money than he does now. That means his insurance policy amount could also increase if he wants it to, which means you would receive more.

One possible group of people you're not considering are those who live out of town. His parents and brother may live near you guys and won't need a portion of the money to travel to his funeral, but that doesn't mean they always will be near. They might decide to move, especially since retired people often move to Florida, or his brother might get a job out of town. Or, your husband might get a job out of town after he's finished with school. Plus, no doubt there are family members who do live out of town. Perhaps there are grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. who live away and would like to attend his funeral but cannot afford the cost of travel. That happened in my family when my mom passed. She was originally from Alabama and left family there, and we also had family in Texas, Louisiana, Arizona, New York, and California. My sister was the beneficiary and was able to help a couple of them attend mom's funeral. I used to work closely with funeral homes and the bereaved, during which time I learned that *some* incarcerated family members can attend a funeral but there is a high cost attached. None of this is anything you should or would even want to have to deal with at a time like that, so his parents and/or brother could assist out-of-towners knowing they are going to be reimbursed those expenses.



RebuildingMe said:


> I still can't past the fact that your only 34, have no kids and have no job. You stay home to take care of a 9 year old dog and a one BR apartment? Then you think you have a right to tell your husband who he can and can't leave his money to? He is the one that is working and he is free to make that decision. Your sense of entitlement is so very strong. Forget having kids, that would be a huge mistake in this relationship. Give up this fight, because you are wrong. Get a full time job, start working as a partner in this marriage and then, if all goes well, decide if it's time to have kids. Or blow it up and start over with someone new. That could take more time then repairing your broken marriage and your broken way of thinking.


This was really ugly to me, like you just have no right of say whatsoever and how dare you think that you do. Really awful, but it shows how some people feel and shows that no woman has any business being financially dependent. I don't care how many kids or dogs you have. 

And besides, the vast majority of people who have dogs don't pay a dog walker, yet they maintain jobs and careers. The only thing most pet owners worry about is kenneling or dogsitting when they have to be away for extended periods. You're blowing everything out of proportion and making simple life decisions insurmountable unless you quit working.

Also, why do you keep arguing with everybody and saying the same things over and over? Most don't agree with you but you are determined to be right no matter what.


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## Aspydad (Oct 17, 2013)

I assume it was a joint agreement for LostSole to stay at home and take care of husband while he burns the candle at both ends positioning him self to be a high income earner. As such, it should be a joint agreement on the use of joint funds - LostSole owns half of everything and if husband dies, she owns 100% of everything. I always see a type of resentment from some women who would never think of making such a sacrifice to stay home (it is a sacrifice by the way as LostSole is reducing her income potential in the real world by staying home). I am with you LostSole - if you do not think that husbands relatives should get any of the insureance, than husband needs to suck it up.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

StarFires said:


> In reading more of the responses, I'm wondering why you keeping bringing up having kids/family as part of your reasons to be entitled to the whole policy. I have come to the same conclusion that it appears your husband has, which is that you guys won't be having any children. You told him that you "prefer not to have kids when medically considered Advanced Maternal Age." Yet, you guys decided not to have kids until he finishes school. Since you know, and stated, that he won't be finished for 1+ more years and you will be 35-ish then, it is understandable for him to conclude kids are off the table. So why do you keep bringing it up about you and the kids his policy will have to support when this was your decision?
> 
> Why have you and he not spoken in 2 days? Are you sulking and giving him the silent treatment?
> 
> ...


Well starfires, I wasn’t asking for your feedback. This wasn’t written to you, so I don’t know why you feel the need to comment it’s “ugly”. More appropriate would have been to say it’s “factual”.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Okay, sorry about that. I thought it was a new page and your post was written after mine. So I deleted all of my response here.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> Well starfires, I wasn’t asking for your feedback. This wasn’t written to you, so I don’t know why you feel the need to comment it’s “ugly”. More appropriate would have been to say it’s “factual”.


And I wasn't asking for your feedback either. I didn't hijack her thread and would appreciate you not dragging me into your hijack or your argument.


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## lostsoul13 (Nov 12, 2019)

Hi Starfires,

Thanks for your responses.

I know you're under the impressions that I'm STILL discussing this here, but other than THIS post, I'm not.... I see that you're posting, and when (all posts are time stamped), but I think if you check MY posts and time stamps, you'll see that what you're reading/responding to are from HOURS ago....

I've spoken with my husband... in my latest post, I said I'd post an update. I haven't yet hit "post" on it, but in it I thank you specifically and a few select others for your advice and information contained in your posts.

I've also spoken with an attorney (licensed in several states, but she's also my best friend.... No, I'm not at the point of a seeking information from a divorce attorney!) She's informed me that YES; my husband's paychecks are community property, and since the employer-sponsored life insurance benefit is paid directly with it, it REQUIRES my signature if he lists ANYONE at all as beneficiary, regardless of amount/percent. She explained that his pay is OUR property, requiring my consent.

Considering the confirmation-finding regarding needing my consent to add beneficiaries, I also appreciate the post by Aspydad, who wrote this 45 minutes ago:
I assume it was a joint agreement for LostSole to stay at home and take care of husband while he burns the candle at both ends positioning him self to be a high income earner. As such, it should be a joint agreement on the use of joint funds - LostSole owns half of everything and if husband dies, she owns 100% of everything. I always see a type of resentment from some women who would never think of making such a sacrifice to stay home (it is a sacrifice by the way as LostSole is reducing her income potential in the real world by staying home). I am with you LostSole - if you do not think that husbands relatives should get any of the insureance, than husband needs to suck it up.

What kills me about all of this, is that it's NOT ABOUT THE MONEY. If, for example, my husband wants to leave a collector-car worth seven figures to his brother because it "means something to him," I fully support this. That's right, even if the sale of that car would sustain OUR life that much longer, I'd fully support his decision. But, this isn't a will, nor is it about the money. It's about the principle: the intention of life insurance isn't to act as a will; it is to help sustain those who would be financially affected by my husband's lost wages.

If my brother in-law, or his parents, were ill, for example, and - while living - we were financially supporting them (even a little), I would be in complete agreement with listing any/all of them as beneficiaries, since they are financially dependent on his income. But this is not the case. No one but he and I are dependent on his income. Life insurance is INTENDED for those who would be financially affected by the insured's lost income. Yes, anyone can buy it, and yes, they can list whoever/whatever they want, but it is NOT typical of anyone with a spouse and/or children to not list them and only them.

Again, I'd like to hear from ANYONE who IS married and/or has kids with a life insurance policy who doesn't list ONLY them as beneficiaries.... There are 60+ posts in this thread, and not one does this apply to....

Long story short, husband and I have spoken, and we're back on the same page. There was a miscommunication or really not enough, I suppose.... 
Also to sum: We WANT this life. We both agree to it, and support each other in these decisions. Aspydad (along with a few others) hit the nail on the head: I own 100% of everything in the case of his death. And as I've said, I am who would be left financially responsible/liable for EVERYTHING. No one else would be financially responsible for his end of life decisions/arrangements. Only I would be financially responsible for OUR debts (notice how I never say "his"). The same would be true in the reverse scenario... this is what we both see as (part of) marriage..... 

Okay, so now I know what "hijacking" a post is -- thank you for that tidbit as well, and now Aspydad's post was made a bit over an hour ago, in case you do go back.

Best,


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Girl_power,
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> ...


Your statistics are probably true, I don't dispute them. I am one of them. I had a profession (2 degrees, the first one I hated the profession, the 2nd I loved.) I left my job for the very reason you gave. Raised and homeschooled 4 children. I had a full time job at home, or 4 at home doing that.

When my husband cheated and wanted a divorce, I was going to get NO credit for all my sacrifices and hard work. While his career grew, and income increased while I held up the fort, educated his children, helped us live a GREAT life on one income, I would have had to start at entry level wages after all those years.

We haven't divorced, and are trying to repair our marriage, and sometimes I wish I had divorced years ago. But it would have been so hard with 4 young children and me not having worked in my field for so many years.

People change, even their core values change, even if only temporarily while they are in an affair. Then everyone they love don't matter anymore.

Now I discourage my own daughters from ever doing the SAHHSM (stay at home homeschool mom) thing because the government gives SQUAT credit for your efforts in raising loved, adjusted, educated citizens.

I have told them to alway keep one foot in some type of profession, or money making endeavor, even if it is part time. They need something they can quickly make full time if their spouse goes temporarily (or permanently) insane.

That is the advice I give you.

And let his family have 10% of the life insurance. He loves them. He's giving you 90%. You're young. If he were to die soon, you'll have plenty of time to earn the 10% that he gave his family. If you are old when he dies, the two of you will have investments and other financial means to make up for the 10% his family gets.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

So how did it get resolved? Did he agree with your demands that he not leave anything to his family? Did he agree to have children in a year and a half?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

lostsoul13 said:


> My husband wants a baby, but has said he doesn't want one until he is more financially comfortable. We are both 33, and I have said I'd prefer not to have kids when medically considered Advanced Maternal Age. You're medically considered Advanced Maternal Age if your DUE DATE is when you are age 35 or older. That is, if you become pregnant at age 34 and 3 months or later.


Don't let the Dr.s and statistics scare you. All 4 of my children were born after I was 35. My last was born when I was 43. They were all healthy, and the only complication I had was that my uterus didn't want to stretch, LOL. I took meds for preterm labor for the first 2. By the 3rd one I learned to drink plenty of water and to lay down if the Braxton Hicks contractions were too close.

But definitely DON'T have children until the two of you work out your marital issues.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Life is what happens while we are making plans. Y'all have had plans and have been working hard to complete them. Few are so responsible!

There was misunderstanding and poor communication when the life insurance dragon reared its ugly head. Seemed to me, husband was using this as a sort of bequest--not for expenses.

Not eating when you are hungry, staying in your bedroom, not talking--these actions help no one and accomplish nothing. Your coming here--strangers on a message board--must have been rather a harsh surprise for you. The point here is to mostly politely take the advice you think best fits and to gently ignore the rest.

Children are so fulfilling, but require flexibility, good communication, lots of love, flexibility, prayer, hugs, and flexibility. I also wondered about your family and how different your relationships may be?

While he is in school, he likely has little 'we' time and you may have some extra. Don't let intimacy and connection get frayed. A perk of school is usually free counseling and I'm wondering if y'all might take advantage of this. Better coping skills will lead to less stress in y'all's life. Good luck...


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Starfires,
> 
> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> I know you're under the impressions that I'm STILL discussing this here, but other than THIS post, I'm not.... I see that you're posting, and when (all posts are time stamped), but I think if you check MY posts and time stamps, you'll see that what you're reading/responding to are from HOURS ago....


Yep, I discovered that, deleted my response, and apologized almost an hour before you posted this reply. Again, sorry about that.



lostsoul13 said:


> I've also spoken with an attorney (licensed in several states, but she's also my best friend.... No, I'm not at the point of a seeking information from a divorce attorney!) She's informed me that YES; my husband's paychecks are community property, and since the employer-sponsored life insurance benefit is paid directly with it, it REQUIRES my signature if he lists ANYONE at all as beneficiary, regardless of amount/percent. She explained that his pay is OUR property, requiring my consent.


The Nolo.com article you quoted from does not provide full explanation of community properly law as it regards spousal rights. The little bit it does say is actually misleading because it's incomplete.

Regarding your best friend who is an attorney licensed in several states, I'm afraid she is mistaken. I'm not challenging that she knows her stuff. I'm simply saying that perhaps she is either under the wrong impression or she has not had to work with or within the insurance policy industry to be familiar with the intricacies of the rules and regulations. Because community property law does surely state that both spouses are 100% co-owners of the insurance policy, it could be that she thinks you both as spouses have 100% control of the distribution. 

However, as you can see from the quotes below, that is not true. You each own and control 50% of the policy. You are automatically entitled to 50% of the benefit amount. And he is automatically entitled to the other 50%, which means he can name whomever he wishes. Because that 50% is his and his alone, he does not need your consent or signature to name someone as beneficiary of his 50%. He only needs that if he wanted to exclude you from the policy altogether, whereby depriving you of your rightful 50%.

LifeQuote.com
_"Simply put, the following states consider that both spouses have shared and equal rights to all assets earned during their marriage. If the couple’s money was used to buy property, it will be split 50/50. The benefit from a life insurance policy would also be included under these privileges and *distribute the surviving spouse half of the insurance money, divided equally with any named beneficiary. The only exception to this would be if the spouse agreed to sign a form waiving rights to the money*."_ In your case, his parents and brother would be the other named beneficiaries, and the case is such that he would be designating 10% not 50, although I can't know for certain if you're saying each of the three of them would be designated 5% or if the brother 5% and the parents together 5%. The former would total 15% and the latter would total 10%.

Insure.com
_"In Washington state, for instance, if a spouse uses "community property" to pay the life insurance premiums, his or her spouse has the right to a portion of the life insurance proceeds. The extent to which the life insurance is considered community property depends on the type of policy, says Karolyn Hicks, a litigator with Stokes Lawrence, a law firm in Seattle.

With term life insurance, the entire policy is considered community property -- which would give the spouse the right to 50 percent of the death benefit -- if income earned during the marriage were used to pay the most recent premium. *The other 50 percent would go to the named beneficiary*."_

LifeAnt.com
_"There are several reasons why *one spouse may want to exclude* the other spouse from a life insurance policy. Whatever the reason, *if you decide that you do not want to include your spouse* as a beneficiary, there are several issues that could arise that you should be aware of.

First and foremost, if you live in a “community property state”, as mentioned above, your spouse would still be able to receive benefits, even if he or she was not named a beneficiary. In that case, the individual you named a beneficiary would not receive the full benefits of your policy. Additionally, *if you want to exclude your spouse* from your life insurance, your* insurance company may require a consent form be signed by the spouse who is not insured* by the policy."
_

I do realize this is a moot issue at this point since you told us you and have come to an agreement. I still wanted to clarify that particular distinction in the law.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

I really can't resist asking, since you (should) now know that your entire premise was wrong about him leaving 10 or 15 percent to his extended family members since the law does make provision for that and does not require your consent, if you will change your stance and share that with him being that your whole argument was based on your own misunderstanding of the law? Or will you insist that he do it your way, which I presume from your last post is what he agreed to. 

If your disgust and silent treatment won him over, then you owe it to him to confess that you misconstrued the fine points of the law and was, therefore, mistaken about all the rest of it. Even if you still insist that he leave his brother and parents off of it, you still owe it to him to confess. It's the right thing to do, especially since you were determined that he do what you felt was right.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

She doesn’t want to hear anything that doesn’t reflect her point of view. There has been great advice on here and is walking away unchanged with the same viewpoint.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Tex,
> 
> You're right, it DOES seem like I'm overreacting....
> It has to do with the children we planned to have in the near(ish) future....
> ...


But, it isn't as atypical as it seems to be referred to as a fact, that it is super-unusual. In the adult world, it's not.

Just curious, OP you seem to insinuate you'd leave over this insurance thing.

Would you really? This is the question you may really have to answer. If so, then there may be deeper conflicts you have with your SO.

It seems like you're morphing into a controlling person a bit.

What happens when he does something else your perception of whatever is telling you it's terrible when in reality it may not be. 

Just a couple thoughts to consider.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

StarFires said:


> I really can't resist asking, since you (should) now know that your entire premise was wrong about him leaving 10 or 15 percent to his extended family members since the law does make provision for that and does not require your consent, if you will change your stance and share that with him being that your whole argument was based on your own misunderstanding of the law? Or will you insist that he do it your way, which I presume from your last post is what he agreed to.
> *
> If your disgust and silent treatment won him over*, then you owe it to him to confess that you misconstrued the fine points of the law and was, therefore, mistaken about all the rest of it. Even if you still insist that he leave his brother and parents off of it, you still owe it to him to confess. It's the right thing to do, especially since you were determined that he do what you felt was right.


Wow. If this ended up OPs final reaction, if I were him I'd be the one saying maybe we're not right for each other, and run, quick. Many SOs would. It's just a bad sign of the future. 
:surprise::surprise:


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Starfires,
> 
> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> ...


I can say I'm an example. Married 35yrs.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

RebuildingMe said:


> I still can't past the fact that your only 34, have no kids and have no job. You stay home to take care of a 9 year old dog and a one BR apartment? Then you think you have a right to tell your husband who he can and can't leave his money to? He is the one that is working and he is free to make that decision. Your sense of entitlement is so very strong. Forget having kids, that would be a huge mistake in this relationship. Give up this fight, because you are wrong. Get a full time job, start working as a partner in this marriage and then, if all goes well, decide if it's time to have kids. Or blow it up and start over with someone new. That could take more time then repairing your broken marriage and your broken way of thinking.


This times a hundred.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

I am questioning the value of the collectors car and it's value. Going to the brother, why did you allow him to purchase this? And forego your desire and want of children. And it seems fixated on the scribbles of the will instead of the writing on the wall. Since you have done everything for your H, and are seeing that you are #1 but if your ok with the car and it's value not worthy then, your only focus on the mechanics of your marriage. And feel that for all of that deserve it all. I get it, then again maybe your only answer is divorce. So you get what you get. And then you can start the family you want and get half the value of the car also.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I am married and we have an adult child. I have life insurance and a will. In the event of my demise 100 percent goes to my W. The total amount between my employer based life insurance and our private term life insurance would be $1.1 million.

Our siblings and parents (that are still alive) are financially self sufficient. In fact my siblings have agreed to look after our son if anything happens to us.


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## bkyln309 (Feb 1, 2015)

Just say no. Its communal money to pay for the life insurance so you get a say.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

After all the drama, starting with your name (lost soul) the whole problem was a misunderstanding...SMH...

You guys really need to focus on your communication skills. I really suggest you get IC (for your dramatic and obsessive thoughts) and MC to help with your communication skills.

You seem like a person who needs to plan everything, but your need to plan life seems a little extreme and dramatic to me.

I remember my days when I wasn't the beneficiary of my husband's life insurance policy (no big deal to me.) We didn't have kids either, we moved a lot, had a dog and was home because I had to start over every time we moved. 

I never felt the need to test drive the SAHM life. The real SAHM thing came after having kids and it only lasted for about 6 years. I needed to go back to work. 

Once you have kids you'll see that nothing goes as planned, and I mean nothing!

If you come to an internet forum asking for advice then be open and listen to the advice. You are 33 yo woman living at home with a dog. Many men and women here have a lot of experience with family and work life and they have helped a lot of people with marriage issues. If you feel you don't need their opinions, then don't ask questions and save their time and energy.

Good luck to you and your future life.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

You act like you made the rules of life insurance and people's intentions around it. That's really annoying. You are really annoying. It really isn't only designed to benefit a person directly affected by the decedent's *lost wages*. Broaden your life view.

I know several adult friends who were gifted with funds from a relative's life insurance policy who had nothing to do with that person's WAGES. And what about people who are retired and no longer earning a wage? They have life insurance, too. Heck there are life insurance policies parents open when their children are young. 

Beneficiaries can be family members, friends, etc. Affaircare did the math in your case. It would be but a small amount to other family members. 

I have work sponsored life insurance. You soooooo make me want to change my beneficiaries. Maybe my friend's dog....



lostsoul13 said:


> Hi Starfires,
> 
> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> ...


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Livvie said:


> You act like you made the rules of life insurance and people's intentions around it. That's really annoying. You are really annoying. It really isn't only designed to benefit a person directly affected by the decedent's *lost wages*. Broaden your life view.
> 
> I know several adult friends who were gifted with funds from a relative's life insurance policy who had nothing to do with that person's WAGES. And what about people who are retired and no longer earning a wage? They have life insurance, too. Heck there are life insurance policies parents open when their children are young.
> 
> ...


Geez, Livvie, you're not playing, are you? LOL
I don't suppose it really matters. It looks like she moped and pouted and stonewalled until she got her way. 

@lostsoul13, I hope you will come back and tell us how it was a misunderstanding. And if you will consider offering him the confession and apology that you really owe him. It's only fair, you know?


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Resorting to silent treatment is disgusting and abusive behavior. I suspect divorce proceedings in the future...for his sake.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

lostsoul13 said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> It also seems clear to me that my husband sees his parents and brother still as part of his immediate family.... I don't see how any of them would be financially affected by his sudden/untimely death; I only see how I would be, since he and I are the only people depending on his salary. We also may have children at any time, and benefit-options can only be changed once/year during "open enrollment," or AFTER a major life-event, like having a baby.... If, God forbid, I be pregnant, and my husband dies, the policy benefits would be distributed as written at the time of his death. We wouldn't have the chance to alter them after a baby was born....


I haven't read any other responses but this part jumped out at me. It took my STBXH a LONG time to think of me as his real family and not his parents and siblings. To be quite honest, that didn't happen until we had children of our own. We got into many disagreements about our responsibilities to each other vs his to his family. He thought it perfectly fine that he fly over 2 hours away to spend Christmas Eve with them then fly back in the morning to spend Christmas afternoon with me. He gave no thought to the fact that I spent the entire Thanksgiving weekend with his family even though I barely knew any of them. It was rough going for a while. Once we had our first child he slowly started to change until he shocked me when his mother passed away when our kids were still very young. She had a hemorrhagic stroke and he flew down to be there but flew home before she passed while they waited for the inevitable. "I just need to be with my family right now." 

I think it's harder for men to think of a wife as his family than it is for a woman. I can't tell you why but it seems to be a common theme among a lot of my friends. My STBXH and I had a similar disagreement about life insurance payouts as well. 

I'd tell your husband you expect him to change his beneficiaries BEFORE you attempt to get pregnant.


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