# Dominance



## Ynot

If you Google the word, you will find all sorts of permutations. But the ones that have really caught my attention are the articles that highlight sexual dominance. There are two schools of thought and probably two more reactions to one of them but only acceptance of the idea for the other.
The first school of thought involves male dominance over females. As I said there are two reactions to the idea. The first "Hell yeah!" and the second "Misogynistic!"
The second school of thought involved female dominance over males. There have been zero negative reactions that I have seen.
So my question is why? Is it because men just want to have sex and could care less if dominate or are submissive? Why do some women object to the main objective of that both sides ultimately have - which is just deriving as much pleasure as possible from giving the most pleasurable experience you possibly can to your partner?


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## uhtred

I think that there is a general belief that men are more likely to abuse their partners than the reverse. (I don't know if this is backed up by statistics, but certainly both types of abuse happen). Dominance can look like abuse from the outside. Even "safeword" BDSM can actually *be* abuse in some situations, so I think people are naturally a bit nervous when they see it. 

FWIW, I have not problem with dominance if it is *truly* what both parties want, but I've seen cases where it isn't.


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## Bananapeel

What people say and what actually happens aren't always the same. There has been a push for female empowerment in all avenues of their lives lately and a large portion of today's society considers it a good thing. The contrary side is the same society is not looking at equalizing the field between genders but changing which gender is subservient to the other which is why males are getting the bad rap for being dominant over females. Sexuality is a very complex area so you will find that the same women that are about female empowerment still like a guy to be sexually dominant over them to the point that the women submit completely to their partner's desires. Others have a different style and it works for them. 

Now regarding the lack of negative reactions towards female dominants, well it exists. Follow the PUA, red pill, and various men's rights groups and they'll express it. It's just not as obvious in the broader society.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Maybe it's more traditionally believed men will dominate because typically are stronger. But many women can be.

😊 see how I stayed in the fence on this?

Many W do abdicate taking responsibility for sexual frequency even if dominant in other ways.


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## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> What people say and what actually happens aren't always the same. There has been a push for female empowerment in all avenues of their lives lately and a large portion of today's society considers it a good thing. The contrary side is the same society is not looking at equalizing the field between genders but changing which gender is subservient to the other which is why males are getting the bad rap for being dominant over females. Sexuality is a very complex area so you will find that the same women that are about female empowerment still like a guy to be sexually dominant over them to the point that the women submit completely to their partner's desires. Others have a different style and it works for them.
> 
> Now regarding the lack of negative reactions towards female dominants, well it exists. Follow the PUA, red pill, and various men's rights groups and they'll express it. It's just not as obvious in the broader society.


I am sure that this sentiment is evident on PUS, red pill and other men's rights groups. I guess I mean on sites that promote female dominance over men. There seems to be little if any reaction from men, but on sites that promote male dominance over women, there are some negative reactions by women (along with some very positive responses by women)


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## 2ntnuf

In reality, it's women who tell men when it's time for sex. It is men who ask for it in some manner. It always has been that way, with exceptions for abuse and rape, etc. I don't think it's a leap to think that some women would naturally want to dominate while some men are submissive to them. 

Even within the home, many women are the dominant force. It's only when something goes really poorly that a man will step up. I think this is normal, too. As long as things are going as expected, many men will not say much, basically just trying to keep the home happy by doing as told or as expected within his personal boundaries. 

At the same time, I think some women recognize this and get tired of leading, so they want dominated in the bedroom, where they can relax and enjoy, forgetting for a little while, all of life's responsibilities. 

The intensity of the domination that men and women will accept or initiate, is very subjective.

Next time you do it with a regular partner, see if positions and things change to show dominance in one, then the other. I think you will be surprised.


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## personofinterest

2ntnuf said:


> In reality, it's women who tell men when it's time for sex. It is men who ask for it in some manner. It always has been that way, with exceptions for abuse and rape, etc. I don't think it's a leap to think that some women would naturally want to dominate while some men are submissive to them.
> 
> Even within the home, many women are the dominant force. It's only when something goes really poorly that a man will step up. I think this is normal, too. As long as things are going as expected, many men will not say much, basically just trying to keep the home happy by doing as told or as expected within his personal boundaries.
> 
> At the same time, I think some women recognize this and get tired of leading, so they want dominated in the bedroom, where they can relax and enjoy, forgetting for a little while, all of life's responsibilities.
> 
> The intensity of the domination that men and women will accept or initiate, is very subjective.
> 
> Next time you do it with a regular partner, see if positions and things change to show dominance in one, then the other. I think you will be surprised.


 This is a very in to etive post. I've been thinking about this thread some, and I was wondering why the idea of dominating my 1st husband made me literally sick almost, but the idea of tying up my current husband is somewhat fascinating and intriguing lol. This post nailed it. In my 1st marriage, along with it being sexless, I was basically the decision maker on everything by default. I had to make the decisions and take the lead because no one else would. So the idea that if we had sex, I was going to be dominant, would have probably just made me mad. In fact, there was 1 time that my ex did ask me to tie him up. Are used a scarf, but it immediately turned me off. In my current marriage, my husband is already the more dominant 1 in the relationship, and the leader so to speak. So it might be fun to tie him to the bed and have my way with him lol. So I think your post is very true.


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## Bananapeel

2ntnuf said:


> In reality, it's women who tell men when it's time for sex. It is men who ask for it in some manner. It always has been that way, with exceptions for abuse and rape, etc. I don't think it's a leap to think that some women would naturally want to dominate while some men are submissive to them.
> 
> Even within the home, many women are the dominant force. It's only when something goes really poorly that a man will step up. I think this is normal, too. As long as things are going as expected, many men will not say much, basically just trying to keep the home happy by doing as told or as expected within his personal boundaries.
> 
> At the same time, I think some women recognize this and get tired of leading, so they want dominated in the bedroom, where they can relax and enjoy, forgetting for a little while, all of life's responsibilities.
> 
> The intensity of the domination that men and women will accept or initiate, is very subjective.
> 
> Next time you do it with a regular partner, see if positions and things change to show dominance in one, then the other. I think you will be surprised.


This unfortunately is the prevailing truth for a lot of couples. But there's still a segment of society (e.g. my life) where the man is in charge of his life, his home, and his sexuality. If he partners correctly he will end up with a woman that submits to him and really enjoys that role. My XW told me that she felt in our relationship that I picked my path in life and I just invited her to join me on the journey, which is 100% true. When she failed my expectations I uninvited her and carried on with my life and still live it is the same way. The women I currently date are submissive to me because it's the same deal as with my XW and I won't offer anything else. I know I'm in the minority here and this doesn't work for everyone, but in my experience women in my life (relationships or friends) really like that I'm dominant. However, as it is a minority of men that act this way it is does express why female dominance is now a majority opinion and supported as much as it is.


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## lifeistooshort

I think for many people there is something intriguing about trying to dominate one they see as stronger. Leveling the field so to speak. 

Usually it's the man that is stronger.... but of course not always. 

And the risk to the stronger partner is far less..... that's why female domestic violence, while equally wrong compared to male violence, is often seen differently. In general a woman's ability to physically hurt a man is far less than the reverse.

I have had a number of men comment that they would like have a round in the ring with me. I'm a black belt and pretty skilled fighter.... but I'm not under any illusions that I can kick all kinds of male ass. I'm not that arrogant. And I don't think these guys want to hurt me.

But I think they see me as strong and are intrigued by the idea that they could dominate. 

Which is funny because IRL I'm really small. 

So I guess my point was about a perception of balancing power.


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## Deejo

This used to be discussed quite frequently. I found the subject fascinating, and my 'field' research even more so.

I find very frequently these days that throwing out a word is insufficient. I work in technology, people use words that have sprawling contexts all of the time. For example:

Security

Is that network security? Software security? Security staff? Personal security, not letting 'tail-gaters' in without swiping a badge?
Hopefully you get the picture.

Well, Dominance is definitely one of those words. I think it is important that people understand and agree on the context in which it's being used before anything productive can happen as far a conversation goes.

I have been involved with a number of women who were at one time or another abused. Using the word 'Dominance' can be a trigger, and generally have a negative connotation. However, displaying dominant traits or behaviors (which also distinctly needs to be defined in context) almost always yields beneficial outcomes for both parties.

Bottom line for me, Dominance or Dominant is contextual, it is not static.

If my wife, or previous partners exhibit dominant behavior in the bedroom, it usually means things are going to be interesting, so I'm certainly not going to complain.


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## minimalME

Bananapeel said:


> This unfortunately is the prevailing truth for a lot of couples. But there's still a segment of society (e.g. my life) where the man is in charge of his life, his home, and his sexuality. If he partners correctly he will end up with a woman that submits to him and really enjoys that role. My XW told me that she felt in our relationship that I picked my path in life and I just invited her to join me on the journey, which is 100% true. When she failed my expectations I uninvited her and carried on with my life and still live it is the same way. *The women I currently date are submissive to me because it's the same deal as with my XW and I won't offer anything else.* I know I'm in the minority here and this doesn't work for everyone, but in my experience women in my life (relationships or friends) really like that I'm dominant. However, as it is a minority of men that act this way it is does express why female dominance is now a majority opinion and supported as much as it is.


There's part of me that really likes what you've written, and the dynamic above is the one I prefer.

But there's a difference between being dominant and being a leader.

You expect the women you meet to chase you, and you expect them to have sex with you within an extremely short period of time.

So you want to be the one calling all the shots as long as it's fun for you (dominance based on ego), but you don't want to have to sacrifice in any meaningful way (leadership born out of strong character).

Or at least that how your posts come across.


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## Bananapeel

minimalME said:


> There's part of me that really likes what you've written, and the dynamic above is the one I prefer.
> 
> But there's a difference between being dominant and being a leader.
> 
> You expect the women you meet to chase you, and you expect them to have sex with you within an extremely short period of time.
> 
> So you want to be the one calling all the shots as long as it's fun for you (dominance based on ego), but you don't want to have to sacrifice in any meaningful way (leadership born out of strong character).
> 
> Or at least that how your posts come across.


Very true about there being a difference between dominant vs leader. I think with me those characteristics blend quite a bit and I inherently do both. 

My expectation for women to chase me and have sex with me is a learned expectation, because it just always seems to happen. Women view me as a great guy and treat me that way, which is why I have had those experiences. I'm also fairly skilled at reading body language and only date women with high interest levels in me so the outcome from dating is very predictable, especially at my age. 

I'm not sure what you mean about sacrifice being necessary to be a leader and would be interested in having that explained further.

Was the bolded part you highlighted where you question my character as being dominant and not a leader? Maybe that needs to be explained better by me? It just means that I have a take it or leave it attitude. Women either like me and also want the relationship style I offer or they want something else so we aren't highly compatible. That came from the idea that the best relationships are when two people want the same thing rather than when two people have to compromise to make things work.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

A dominant will gravitate towards a submissive, a submissive will gravitate towards a dominant. 

When 2 dominants are brought together they push each other apart. 

When 2 submissives are brought together but they lie stationary until some (dominant) force moves them one way or another.


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## Ynot

I guess my observation was not so much about who is right or which is which as much as it about the reaction to it. Within man-centered discussion (ie male dominant) there seems to a very visceral reaction from some women. Yet in female dominant discussions there is seems to be little to no reaction from men.


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## 2ntnuf

Ynot said:


> I guess my observation was not so much about who is right or which is which as much as it about the reaction to it. Within man-centered discussion (ie male dominant) there seems to a very visceral reaction from some women. Yet in female dominant discussions there is seems to be little to no reaction from men.


Are you asking why men seem more accepting of being dominated than women are? 

Why women don't seem to like to dominate?

Why women don't seem to like being dominated? 

Why men don't seem to like to dominate a woman?

I'm confused. There can be different situations possible. As someone said, the definition of domination can be from man on top to woman on top, or all the way to "whips and chains" style. Everyone has a different idea of what domination means to them and why it affects them as it does. Some don't know why. They just like or dislike it. Some have a very low tolerance for it. And they may not realize there is always a more dominate and a more submissive partner in everything.


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## personofinterest

This answer is not PC, but here we go… I think that most women do not want to dominate man, at least on a regular basis in the bedroom, because we are simply not wired that way. And I think had men not been so in masculine aged over the past 4 or 5 decades, they would probably have more of a negative reaction to the idea of being dominated. That is just my opinion, and I know Gloria steinem would not approve. But that is what I think. Men are not wired to be women. And women are not wired to be men.


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## wild jade

Lots of guys really love being dominated in bed, and seek it out. 

Lots of women associate dominance with abuse.

That's my take.


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## Ynot

2ntnuf said:


> Are you asking why men seem more accepting of being dominated than women are?
> 
> Why women don't seem to like to dominate?
> 
> Why women don't seem to like being dominated?
> 
> Why men don't seem to like to dominate a woman?
> 
> I'm confused. There can be different situations possible. As someone said, the definition of domination can be from man on top to woman on top, or all the way to "whips and chains" style. Everyone has a different idea of what domination means to them and why it affects them as it does. Some don't know why. They just like or dislike it. Some have a very low tolerance for it. And they may not realize there is always a more dominate and a more submissive partner in everything.


As per your usual, you seem to miss the point here. As I said, it is not about who wants what and how, as much as there seems to be little reaction from men in regards to sites the push female dominance. It seems as though men accept some woman want to be dominant and either accept it or they look elsewhere because they are not interested in being dominated. Some women on the other hand feel the need to lash out. At the same time other women welcome the idea of being dominated. IOW it does not appear as though men bother to seek out what they don't want, but some women go out of their way to confront those who think differently.


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## Ynot

wild jade said:


> Lots of guys really love being dominated in bed, and seek it out.
> 
> Lots of women associate dominance with abuse.
> 
> That's my take.


Not really my experience. But why would women associate dominance with abuse? That is like confusing aggressiveness with assertiveness.


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## personofinterest

Ynot said:


> Not really my experience. But why would women associate dominance with abuse? That is like confusing aggressiveness with assertiveness.


Because they do not understand basic definitions. Submission is a voluntary act. Subjugation is coerced. A certain subset of women intentionally confuse the two.


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## Bananapeel

@Ynot, you should read the book The Rationale Male. It explains how and why women are actually the ones dominant in society (it also has the usual red pill stuff in there for the guys that want to use a different set of rules that instead benefits their gender). 

But back to the original topic. Another way to answer your questions on a societal level is that female dominance is an epic society wide "poop" test that most men are failing. That's why there is the negative reaction to male dominance and a positive reaction to female dominance. The men that don't fall for that trap play by a different set of rules than the men that succumb to those perceived societal pressures. That's why I pointed out earlier that a small subset of men that choose to be in charge of their life, home, and sexuality are the men that get treated differently and positively, essentially because we beat the "poop" test.


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## azimuth

I think a lot of women don't really know who they are themselves and what they like, until a man can draw it out of them and they try it. A man who isn't judgmental and lets them be free to express themselves. He can lead her to her limits, or draw out even more. I've never participated in female dominance but to me it seems like it kind of depends on the male as well, to draw it out of her. That's for me, because female dominance doesn't come naturally to me. Being older and knowing what I like I don't feel the need to experiment with it. I know there are women where it does come naturally, though.


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## personofinterest

RedPill lol


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## Deejo

My summary to your point would be that it simply ISN'T on most male's radar. They don't think about it. They don't experience it. They probably wouldn't even know it if they saw it. I'm specifically talking about sexual dominance here.

In the age of 'Me Too', and I say that with all due respect, based upon awareness of the women in my life whom have been impacted by sexual abuse, the phrase 'Dominance' becomes a very slippery slope.


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## NobodySpecial

Ynot said:


> Not really my experience. But why would women associate dominance with abuse? That is like confusing aggressiveness with assertiveness.


In my experience, there are plenty of people who confuse both. I have been approached by many men on fet who greatly confuse dominance with abuse, where I put the distinction on ... ohhhhhh that word, consent. In a dom/sub relationship (whether the dom is male or female) the sub is consenting to the submission. There are people who think once a person has deigned to be sub that is where their choice and consent option ends. I have not personally met any women who love that misunderstanding, though I imagine they exist. Men are banned from our local events all the time for this. They WANT to hurt non-consensually. They WANT the sub role to basically be consent for everything and anything anytime. There have been women in our local scene who have fallen for this equivalency being inexperienced themselves. It is pretty frustrating for both doms and subs alike who want to meet real people, but often the subs are a little gun shy afterward. 

I am DMing and event next month. There are a handful of people I have to watch out for who go to some lengths to get into vetted events to scope out shy noobs. MANY of our regulars won't go with in a city block of them. Should be fun.

But even aside from the kink world, the differentiation between healthy assertiveness and aggressiveness is as common as water.


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## NobodySpecial

You know... as I think about it... I even think people confuse dominance and confidence. That is how red pill bluster works, the dude LOOKS confident no matter what a coward he is internally.


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## Ynot

Bananapeel said:


> @Ynot, you should read the book The Rationale Male. It explains how and why women are actually the ones dominant in society (it also has the usual red pill stuff in there for the guys that want to use a different set of rules that instead benefits their gender).
> 
> But back to the original topic. Another way to answer your questions on a societal level is that female dominance is an epic society wide "poop" test that most men are failing. That's why there is the negative reaction to male dominance and a positive reaction to female dominance. The men that don't fall for that trap play by a different set of rules than the men that succumb to those perceived societal pressures. That's why I pointed out earlier that a small subset of men that choose to be in charge of their life, home, and sexuality are the men that get treated differently and positively, essentially because we beat the "poop" test.


I agree that the pushback comes from not wanting to give up a status you already have. I do believe that some women recognize that, despite claims to the contrary, they hold a dominant place in western society. I think the push back comes when they assume a man is getting uppity and wish to put him back in his place by playing the misogyny card. I also agree that when a man, decides to forgo the convention society places on male/female relationships, that he can find a more comfortable and fulfilling life for himself. But that goes for most anybody, not just men. Whenever we seek to truly assert to have own needs met, we are more liable to find someone who meets those needs. OTOH, most people go thru life trying to please others (especially the opposite sex) to the point that their needs often go unmet or they become unhappy and dissatisfied.


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## 2ntnuf

Ynot said:


> As per your usual, you seem to miss the point here. As I said, it is not about who wants what and how, as much as there seems to be little reaction from men in regards to sites the push female dominance. It seems as though men accept some woman want to be dominant and either accept it or they look elsewhere because they are not interested in being dominated. Some women on the other hand feel the need to lash out. At the same time other women welcome the idea of being dominated. IOW it does not appear as though men bother to seek out what they don't want, but some women go out of their way to confront those who think differently.


You're right. I'm lost as to what you are trying to figure out. 

It does work, though most men aren't able to pull it off as easily as a few. I've pretty much always avoided those guys. I really don't like them much. Good luck in your quest to dominate in all aspects of life. I hope it works out for you.


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