# Separated and Now Know Why



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi,

My common law partner asked to separate a year and a half ago and moved out 10 months ago into her own condo. At the time she said it was because "she loved me, but wasn't in love with me". While separated we have been fairly amicable and were still doing a lot of family activities together. In a way it hasn't felt like we weren't separated at all. 

Recently, (1 months ago) I found out that she was having an affair with a married co-worker for the past 2 years and that is the real reason she wanted to separate. I'm devastated by her betrayal. We have an 8 year old son that we share 50% custody of. I told the OM wife who has told her family and her husband's family. I have exposed her affair to my family, her sister and brother and some friends and neighbours.

Interestingly, the OM has now moved out into a townhouse but is not living with my wayward partner. Also, he only has custody of his children on weekends thus preventing the two cheaters from spending much time together. (A couple of week nights at most.) My impression is that they won't be moving in together anytime soon although the affair does continue.

Also, I would like to reconcile if possible. I have probably been too nice about the whole situation for fear of losing her completely. 

I have three questions. They are:

1. Is it too late to expose the affair to her mother, co-workers, boss, etc... and more of our mutual friends? What would you recommend I do?

2. Should I expose the affair to our 8 year old son?

3. Should I be friendly and civil as much as possible or implement NC and "go dark" as I think Harley suggests?


Many thanks in advance.


----------



## northland (Apr 13, 2012)

I don't think that reconciliation is even a faint option, you don't say anything about her having a change of heart or showing any remorse since you busted the affair, only that it will be less convenient. 

If she doesn't want back in, what you want is irrelevant.

Yes tell your son that mom found a guy she loves better than daddy, and go dark on your common law wife. Expose the affair to everyone who you can possibly think of.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

She has considered reconciling but I think mostly out of guilt and because of wanting to do what is best for our son. She has compared the affair like about being on cocaine although I don't get the impression that the OM feels as strongly. Thanks for your suggestions.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MovingAhead (Dec 27, 2012)

I don't think the rate of reconciliation has been very good for anyone who was too nice. She did you wrong for a long time and you let her, unknowingly but you let her. Call her on the carpet.

Exposing her to people outside of those directly affected, I don't think accomplishes much. You may help her find "friends" who think alike and would actually encourage her bad behavior. My EX best friend had an affair vicariously through my EX... My Ex only hangs around losers now...

Exposing her affair to your son is tricky. He is only 8. I did expose my EX affair to my 9 year old. My EX who moved out was next door to my house drinking beer with the guy she was having an affair with and my kids were at my house. I got mad and just let it out.

I talk to them about it as needed. I have them go to counseling as needed. I want my sons to grow up to be men, not just adult males. I want them to have morals and ethics. My two older boys do NOT get along with their mother at all.

I would be civil at best. I would not be friendly. You really want something that you used to have. My dog died at the old age of 15. I'd love to have him back. It's never going to happen, the poor thing died.

When I had my DDay, I grieved. I buried her though she was still living. I wished her back, but it was never to be. She did wrong. There are always other options to cheating. She cheated on you. Do you want to teach your son that that is ok behavior? Do you want to show him that as a man he should think it's ok? Do you want to teach him not to stand up for himself? 

I don't. I say what I believe and I mean it. You don't need to be mean to be tough and firm, but you should be strong here not weak.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback. It was a work place affair should I let her colleagues and boss know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Prometheus1 said:


> Thanks for the feedback. It was a work place affair should I let her villagers and boss know?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Absolutely tell then. It might actually help end the affair and give you a chance at R.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

northland said:


> I don't think that reconciliation is even a faint option, you don't say anything about her having a change of heart or showing any remorse since you busted the affair, only that it will be less convenient.
> 
> If she doesn't want back in, what you want is irrelevant.
> 
> Yes tell your son that mom found a guy she loves better than daddy, and go dark on your common law wife. Expose the affair to everyone who you can possibly think of.


I agree with this 100%.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

The kid is 8 years old!! I wouldn't tell him anything other than we are splitting up. Everybody else is fair game though.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

Prometheus1 said:


> She has considered reconciling but I think mostly out of guilt and because of wanting to do what is best for our son. She has compared the affair like about being on cocaine although I don't get the impression that the OM feels as strongly. Thanks for your suggestions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


DO NOT RECONCILE BECAUSE OF YOUR SON. 

That is just is not a valid reason to reconcile. Your relationship with her has nothing to do with your son. I know its odd as you will say it has everything to do with it. But it doesn't. You son came out of a relationship that started with her. 

The kids take a back seat to all of this honestly. 

My wife cheated or was looking to cheat 1 month before our wedding. I could have left her, but I didn't. 

My wife was looking to meet up with someone and fvck them in a motel 1 year after our first son was born.

My wife sent out emails 7 years ago to the man she broke up with to be with me that was a drug addict. My second son was 1 years old at the time.

After 19 years my wife has another affair and leaves me for a man she has know for 5 months.. My boys are 13 and 8 now. 

3 chances to run and I stood by her side to fix this to be a family and on the 4th time she kicks me to the curb like I never existed. She doesn't even talk to me now and if she does its with contempt and disgust. Like I cheated on her and did something wrong. 19 years meant nothing to her. My 19 years of loyalty meant nothing to her. My devotion to her meant nothing. I would leveled this earth at her command. The sun set and rose on my wife.. 

Do what you want but make completely certain that you and her are doing this for all the right reasons, because 19 years later you will be kicking yourself in the a$$ when she leaves you..


----------



## Lmodel (Jun 1, 2012)

Don't tell the kid.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

The child will have to be told eventually. He'll try to figure it out. Better have the reason coming from you then elsewhere. If he ask, tell him. Do not lie to him.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Hardtohandle said:


> 3 chances to run and I stood by her side to fix this to be a family and on the 4th time she kicks me to the curb like I never existed. *She doesn't even talk to me now and if she does its with contempt and disgust.* Like I cheated on her and did something wrong. 19 years meant nothing to her. My 19 years of loyalty meant nothing to her. My devotion to her meant nothing. I would leveled this earth at her command. The sun set and rose on my wife..
> 
> Do what you want but make completely certain that you and her are doing this for all the right reasons, because 19 years later you will be kicking yourself in the a$$ when she leaves you..


Because she knows she did wrong, and you allowed her to continue without major consequences. She lost respect for you.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Tell the omw all you know if it was the other way around you would appreciate it.


----------



## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Time to get tested for STD's. I think you seriously need to ask yourself why you would wish to reconcile with someone with such an attitude and who clearly showed it did not bother her to humiliate and disrespect you in such a horrible way. She has no respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Do everything you mentioned except telling your kid. xpose it at her work, and to her parents. 

And don't even consider reconciliation unless she begs you for it. Why do you want a cheater back ? Nostalgia


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If she truely wants this marriage to work she will take the exposure like a big girl and stick around.

If she doesn't want this marriage she will use this exposure as an excuse to get out of the marriage...

Bad behavior will continue with out consequences and if you don't expose, #1 you won't know how commited she really is and #2 she will do this crap again.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

And ya don't tell the kid until she bails on the marriage.

You will have to let him know that it wasn't his fault that mommy left, and that when mommies and daddies are married....mommies can't have boyfriends!

Again hold off on this and see how she handles the marriage.


After all her betrayal hasn't been fully addressed and she hasn't taken the actions to affair proof the marriage.

You my find your self in a false R and if thats the case then your kid will need to be addressed. Until then mummies the word with the little guy.

So help your wife with her addiction and expose this affair with the intent in making this affair inconvienent and uncomfortable to start up again!


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The kid is 8 years old!! I wouldn't tell him anything other than we are splitting up. Everybody else is fair game though.


I agree....getting your son involved wouldn't be fair to him

The most you should say is that you and his mom won't be getting back together


----------



## 310brooklyn818 (Apr 19, 2013)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> The kid is 8 years old!! I wouldn't tell him anything other than we are splitting up. Everybody else is fair game though.


I completely agree...lets protect the child and figure out yet the adult stuff on our own. Also...just a thought...are you sinking to her level by exposing her??? Karma had a nice way of paying back.


----------



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

aug said:


> The child will have to be told eventually. He'll try to figure it out. Better have the reason coming from you then elsewhere. If he ask, tell him. Do not lie to him.


An 8 year old isn't going to think cheating. He can be told that Mom and Dad are splitting up. There is no reason to tell a 2nd/3rd grader something so adult. He can learn about it when he is much older.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> An 8 year old isn't going to think cheating. He can be told that Mom and Dad are splitting up. There is no reason to tell a 2nd/3rd grader something so adult. He can learn about it when he is much older.


Yes. If the child ask, he should be told something. And it should be the truth, the child version of truth.


----------



## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

> Also, *I would like to reconcile if possible.* I have probably been too nice about the whole situation for fear of losing her completely.


WHAAAAAAA?! i think that ship has sailed, buddy.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

She knows you better than you think you know yourself. She's cheated on you and continues to cheat on you and you want immediate reconciliation. So at the moment she's cake eating, having her fun whilst telling you how she may or may not feel about R.
That's tantamount to committing a crime and getting away with it scott free..it's not betrayal she says, it's like a drug

She's willfully not only let you down but the child you both brought into this world. The legacy of this is forever, whatever road you decide to go down, whether you take her back the trust will never be like it was, if you D, it's a "broken home"

R is only possible is she wants it. Like other posters have said it doesn't really matter what you want, she wants to be with him, she moved out to be with him. So you have no control over the situation. You exposed, great! Now detach. She has you as a safety net, her little cushion to periodically feed you crumbs about R whilst continuing her affair. What it does is leave you in the limbo you are now, why? You have no control.

Realize you still have to communicate because of your child, but keep it at that for now. No contact, no playing nice, meet a lawyer and get everything in order. If not for yourself then for your child, wrestle back some control, for your sanity, for your pride. Introduce her to the cold reality you are currently living in.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

aug said:


> Yes. If the child ask, he should be told something. And it should be the truth, the child version of truth.


Both my two 8 and 9 at the time kept asking and asking and were in complete turmoil about it so eventually after my asking her to tell them in her own way to soften the blow - she told me to fk off.!!

So I told them, obviously in as sensitive a way as possible but they know mummy has had 'romantic moments' (my daughter's choice of words) with other men.

*Unsurprisingly they both knew that was very wrong* and had been with her when some of these men were around - work colleagues so they in effect already knew. They know an awful lot more than you would think. 

I impressed it would in no way affect the love both of us feel for them.

They stopped asking questions and are definitely happier with that knowledge. Their turmoil about why , which is a big deal for a child is finished. 

stbxw she went ballistic of course but that's because she felt her 'cover' was blown. Typically thinking about herself and not the kids, and that's not for the first time either.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

More on topic, one point you need to get into your head to address, is that in terms of respect she's had you down for NONE. NONE

Not at any point point during these last few years has that in any way entered her thoughts - complete cake eating

If you feel you can get your head around that or even think about continuing after that then good luck is all I can say.


----------



## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

> Also, I would like to reconcile if possible. I have probably been too nice about the whole situation for fear of losing her completely.



*She knows this* and will continue to use it against you. That's what manipulative cheaters do. You are her plan B.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I'll try to respond more fully in the next day or so. My son is very inquisitive and has asked questions when he has sensed more tension between us. He will find out the truth at some point it really is just a matter of when. I'll have to think about it more.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Not that it matters at this point but I'm curious as to why you're not legally married? Was that agreed upon? I ask because I can easily see a woman getting po'd that she's good enough to live with and have a son with but not good enough to marry. I know some people claim it's just a piece of paper and if you both agree on that then great, but some women view that as you being unwilling to commit 100%. At this point it's a bad idea anyway with her cheating but if you ever look to reconcile it might be something to address. I promise that she's had at least a few people telling her that since you haven't married her you're not that committed and she should keep her options open. Not cool but true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm 54, she is 45 and we were together for 13 years. Neither one of us ever talked about marriage. She had been married once before and I'm not a believer in having the state or church sanction our union. I can understand why people want to get married but it was never discussed or brought by her before, during or after our relationship ended .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Today, {friday morning) I dropped my son off at her place so she can drive him to school later. I'll pick him up from school and drop him off at his Mom's place, tonight. Today, before I left she said I'm welcomed to stay for their pizza and movie night, tonight, if I want. This is the sort of mixed message I get a lot. It is hard to say no when it is an opportunity to see my son and possibly make "love deposits" with my ex. What should I do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> Today, {friday morning) I dropped my son off at her place so she can drive him to school later. I'll pick him up from school and drop him off at his Mom's place, tonight. Today, before I left she said I'm welcomed to stay for their pizza and movie night, tonight, if I want. This is the sort of mixed message I get a lot. It is hard to say no when it is an opportunity to see my son and possibly make "love deposits" with my ex. What should I do?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's called "cake eating" my friend. It's what someone does when they really don't wanna make a choice and it's actually pretty dispicable.

I would say, "Pass."

As for your son, all you have to say is the old "sometimes Dads and Moms argue and fall out of love...this is one of those times". Sordid details never...EVER need to be discussed with a child. When it's a teenager even, there's no need to give details. BOTH of you are the parents and planting seeds like the details will f-ck them up more than you'll ever know.

Just ask me how I know.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Prometheus1 said:


> I'm 54, she is 45 and we were together for 13 years. Neither one of us ever talked about marriage. She had been married once before and I'm not a believer in having the state or church sanction our union. I can understand why people want to get married but it was never discussed or brought by her before, during or after our relationship ended .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Fair enough, but it might be worth asking her directly how she feels about it. Asking the church or state to sanction it is one way of looking at it, but another way of looking at it is a full legal commitment. Both ways have merit but it's important that you be on the same page. Do not assume you know what she's thinking. Having said that she should've come to you if this was an issue but I can see where she wouldn't if she knew you didn't believe in it. Women are often told that even 
if they really want marriage they shouldn't bring it up because if the guy really wants to marry you he'll ask.
size=1]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/size]


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Ok, how do you know? I'm sincerely interested in knowing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> Ok, how do you know? I'm sincerely interested in knowing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My step f-cker...I mean father had multiple affairs on my mother. One day, he called my brother and I into their bedroom. I was 13 and my brother was 15.

He told us that he'd been f'ng some other woman in another state for the past few years, but that he and my mother were going to try to reconcile.

The words were disgusting for me to hear. The details were things that a kid just didn't need to hear.

My mother stayed with him until I walked out of the house with a baseball bat in my hand just after I had turned 18. I took a hefty swing and almost connected with his head. Sh-t was that bad in my house.

Later on, when I asked my Ma why she stayed..."I stayed so you and your brother wouldn't have another broken family".

In other words (what I heard)..."I stayed for you"..."It's your fault we're here"..."I was a coward and couldn't take care of you alone again".

Yeah. This sh-t will f-ck you up when you involve your children. 

But...listen to Dr. Harley and the posters here who agree with him that exposing to children as young as 4 is an okay thing to do cuz somehow that'll stop the f'ng affair.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

I'm going to jump on the tell everyone but your son.

For now anyway. Your son is going to struggle with this and for and TO him, you'll need to remain strong. Don't paint your ex in ANY negative light. Remember who she was/is as a mother is a different person than who she was/is as a wife. He's looking at her as a mother. 

He'll ask and you can explain that sometimes people's relationships don't work. But he will always have his mother and father. That will never change. Being a father/mother/son/daughter isn't a choice. You are that person regardless of what happens. But being husband and wife is a choice. Somethings happened where his mother chose not to be your wife any longer but will always be his mother. etc.

In regards to everyone else.....HELLS YEAH!!

Affairs are mushrooms. They grow in the dark on a bed of Bullsh!t. Take away the dark and BS and they wither and die.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> Today, {friday morning) I dropped my son off at her place so she can drive him to school later. I'll pick him up from school and drop him off at his Mom's place, tonight. Today, before I left she said I'm welcomed to stay for their pizza and movie night, tonight, if I want. This is the sort of mixed message I get a lot. It is hard to say no when it is an opportunity to see my son and possibly make "love deposits" with my ex. What should I do?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


As Dig said, she's cake eating.

You can tell her directly. "I'm in this or out of this 100% and I won't accept less from the other person. I won't accept 50%. Sorry but I'm worth more than that. Plus I have a date tonight. (even if you don't) so I'll have to pass tonight."

You need to wake her up. In her little world she has no consequences to her actions. 

You want to see her scramble and be uncomfortable, drop the date line and watch her reaction. She still thinks she "has you".


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> As Dig said, she's cake eating.
> 
> You can tell her directly. "I'm in this or out of this 100% and I won't accept less from the other person. I won't accept 50%. Sorry but I'm worth more than that. Plus I have a date tonight. (even if you don't) so I'll have to pass tonight."
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> My step f-cker...I mean father had multiple affairs on my mother. One day, he called my brother and I into their bedroom. I was 13 and my brother was 15.
> 
> He told us that he'd been f'ng some other woman in another state for the past few years, but that he and my mother were going to try to reconcile.
> 
> ...


Fkme that's harsh Dig

My two particularly my daughter was very strong in getting to the bottom of it that would satisfy her. As I said they kind a knew - my littlest even said "Dad is it cos mummy has 'romantic moments' with ...(OM) !?!

I kept them at bay for about 4 months gently deflecting it but it got worse and worse, very upsetting for us all as they sort of thought they had a part in it!! - they both would not let it go. I could sense they would be happier with a proper reason one that they really already knew. Since then they've never bothered me again with it and although the wife was pissed and terrified at the thought of them blaming her I knew they wouldn't because they also understand these things can go wrong and I emphasized people can make mistakes. 

Think it depends on the kids and how much they are already aware of things. My 9 yr old daughter is more savvy than my son 10 but they are both very clued up kids and for me are definitely better off knowing. They are particularly strong on the lying stuff I suspect they've known in their own way as long as I have. 

They come back from their mums every now and then commenting on her lying about something even small stuff. Some is about old stuff when she was still with me and some is new ! - I don't even wanna ask ! 

I actually think it's great that they already 'get' the truth. They are happier not being fobbed off and if they have that approach to life it will make them stronger good hearted people.

If she had her way they'd spend most of their lives wondering what th fk was going on as she invents liife around them. She still does it now.

I wouldn't advocate it for everybody but for us it has worked out well.


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Don't have pizza, share jokes, friendly banter - nothing. She's either "in" or she's "out".

At the moment she has no incentive for changing her life. She has two husbands, one lover, and one baby sitter. What a life!

If you want to have any chance at R (why you would even consider this is a mystery to me but nonetheless) then she has to have a clear demarcation line. That side is her lover. This side is you. She has to be on one side or the other. 

My advice is to go completely dark. Say nothing and become a ghost. See her as little as possible (total absence is best) say and discuss nothing at all except for child welfare issues). 

Move on. Get yourself physically fit and emotionally stable. You have a lot of life left. Make the best of it. No groveling. The ball is in her court.


----------



## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I'd be really cautious about putting your 8 year old son in a position where he is between is Dad and his Mom. Give it some thought before you pull the trigger and tell him the dirty details.

The separation has probably been hard enough on him. Unless you have a good reason to tell him, then I would sit on the information.

It sucks, but you cannot UNtell your kid. So tread cautiously here.

My kids are older (12 and 15 now) and I have not told them any details unless they ask. Now, 6 months later - they have discovered a lot of stuff on their own, simply from their Mom's behaviour. Meanwhile, I have been there - just being the Dad I've always been - trying to keep their lives as "normal" as possible. I know they appreciate just having a "home" where they can come back to. In fact, they have recently told our mediator that they do not want to keep shuffling between my wife's condo and our house. And this has happened all without me having say anything bad about their Mom.

So my advice would be to really think hard about IF your son really needs to hear the details...


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She cheated on you, kicked you out and even now, after all is out there in the open, family and friends inthe know, MIM's family destroyed also she won't stop, MOM is cocaine, never showed any trace of remorse, she offers a pizza night as a bone to the dog.
She didn't bother about your son not MOM's family.
She's too far gone. You are not in her radar.
Move on. Kids and finances. Self respect. Now you know what was going on. Accep it. She's no good for you. I'm sure she blamed you every time.
Start the self improvment path. Start dating. You can do better.
She's not who you think she was. Believe her.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Prometheus

I will give you my opinion.

God gave men balls for a reason. To use them.

Drop off your son.

If your Ex asks if you want to stay just say "No, I have a date".

And do just that. Go somewhere, anywhere, even if it is by yourself.

Why has your ex been on her own, banging the OM and playing semi-family with you, because you have let her.

That is why.

You should expose her actions to her family and her work place. 

You should have done it a long time ago.

Oh, it feels good like cocaine she says. Well if you let it continue consider her still on drugs. Why would you consider reconciling with an addict???

I hope my words do not seem harsh. ANd I understand you still lover her. Great!

But why on earth would you want to be with a liar and a cheater. 

You deserve better. 

Maybe it will be with her, maybe not. I think it is well past time to show her some tough love.

So get tough.

HM64


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Prometheus1 said:


> 1. Is it too late to expose the affair to her mother, co-workers, boss, etc... and more of our mutual friends? What would you recommend I do?


It's not too late. Tell them that you were trying to reconcile, but that doesn't appear possible, so they should know why you are splitting up.



> 2. Should I expose the affair to our 8 year old son?


No way. Just tell him that you decided to split up. End of story. If he asks why, just tell him that this is something that couples sometimes do. It has nothing to do with him.

Children, especially young children, have a need to see their parents positively. That's why young boys argue about whose dad can beat up the other dads. Their dads are the toughest. Their moms are the prettiest and make the best PB&J sandwiches. Telling a young kid that his mom is a cheating skank will not sit well with him. You're telling him that there is something wrong with HIM.



> 3. Should I be friendly and civil as much as possible or implement NC and "go dark" as I think Harley suggests?


Run the 180. You've been friendly and civil for months. What has it gotten you? Nothing. Distance yourself.
The Healing Heart: The 180

Good luck.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Prometheus1 said:


> She has considered reconciling but I think mostly out of guilt and because of wanting to do what is best for our son. She has compared the affair like about being on cocaine although I don't get the impression that the OM feels as strongly. Thanks for your suggestions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You need to realize that there are two kinds of communication people use. People use verbal communication and nonverbal communication. The disadvantage of verbal communication is that people can lie. People usually don't lie using nonverbal communication.

For example, she has been telling you that she is considering reconciling (verbal). But, she's continuing to bang another man (nonverbal). When the two kinds of communication are at odds, you can usually trust the nonverbal communication over the verbal.

So. She is lying. And she will continue to lie. Accept this and stop trusting what she is telling you. Pay attention to her actions, not her words.

Good luck.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family,(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Why does she dangle a carrot?
Because she knows there is no future with the OM. He's a toy for her joy and pleasure. No commitment, no duty, no smelly underwear to wash, no problems - only butterflies and KY Jelly. 

You on the other hand, are the future. Far in the future. She needs you to be the father and eventual partner (even part-time). She doesn't want him forever. And she doesn't want you now.

She was willing to lie to your face for at least a year while she romanced this guy and neglected you. She lost her respect for you and continues to do so. 

He takes what he wants and gets it. You are overjoyed to get the leftovers and are as happy as a puppy slapping his tail on the floor while the master makes him beg. 

Move on. Stop playing the fool.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

walkonmars said:


> Why does she dangle a carrot?
> Because she knows there is no future with the OM. He's a toy for her joy and pleasure. No commitment, no duty, no smelly underwear to wash, no problems - only butterflies and KY Jelly.
> 
> You on the other hand, are the future. Far in the future. She needs you to be the father and eventual partner (even part-time). She doesn't want him forever. And she doesn't want you now.
> ...


:iagree:Move on is right tell her you have a date tonight.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

When I expose the affair to others it could easily become a case of "he said, she said". To avoid that should I share the emails I have or only if asked. Thanks for ask the advice. It is helpful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family,(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's the cake eating we're talking about.

The OM being with his wife during that time is inconsequential.


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> When I expose the affair to others it could easily become a case of "he said, she said". To avoid that should I share the emails I have or only if asked. Thanks for ask the advice. It is helpful.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. If you have evidence to prove the affair you may absolutely show those you expose to IF they need it. See, now we're getting in to the gaslighting of the affair. The cheater will do everything in their power to make YOU look bad all the while making themselves look good.

Case in point - during my wife's 5 year affair, she had convinced family and friends that I wasn't pulling the load in the marriage. That because I was flying all over the world that I didn't do sh-t when I was home. They all bought it, even to the point where my in-laws bought me a book on "becoming a better man"...a good book though, by Coach Tony Dungee, but I threw that f'ng thing in the trash after Dday and discovering that she had said those things.

Everyone...EVERYONE now knows because SHE admitted she lied about it. But the point is...she gaslighted everyone.

And they bought it.


----------



## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

My interpretation is in red.



Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family, because if you weren't there she'd have to answer why....she doesn't want to deal with that. With you there she still resembles the dutiful mother and wife.(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. Because she doesn't think you'd actually be mad at her...ultimate cake eating. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me?because she liked her world with you and she likes to bang the OM. Like this she has both. She can have her attentive husband, just not have to have sex with you while getting her brains boffed out by OM. Best of both worlds. Like our society tells many women now...You don't have to choose....you can have both It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Theseus (Feb 22, 2013)

Prometheus1 said:


> 1. Is it too late to expose the affair to her mother, co-workers, boss, etc... and more of our mutual friends? What would you recommend I do?



I disagree with some others here about exposing it to her boss and co-workers. That seems unnecessarily vindictive rather than productive. You want someone who will end the affair on her own, not because circumstances ended it. Otherwise, she will just have an affair with someone else later.

Moreover, this is your child's mother, and if she has no job, then one way or the other you are going to end up paying more for child support or other expenses.


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family,(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She was keeping you on the hook for the long haul. Like someone said above, she has to keep you around as a future mate while she has her fun with the OM now. 

You have been played dear friend. Played like a violin and strung out like a fising line. 

Doesn't that make you angry? I don't sense any anger in you.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

I've been very angry and have had some blow out arguments over the last few months. It comes and goes now but I do have a lot of anger and resentment still over how I was kicked to the curb so easily, how my son's life has been torn apart, how now I'm a part time parent and how I only see my soon half the time now. I also, feel tremendously sad for myself and my son. I think that is the main reason why I want to reconcile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

Do NOT bring your son into it. Put your significant other in the "rear view" mirror and move on with your NEW life...you are free at last, free at last...embrace it....


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Believe it or not, there are a lot, many, a whole slew of available women out there who are better looking than your wife and who will not cheat on you. 

Quit thinking of her as irreplaceable. She is very replaceable.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Yes. If you have evidence to prove the affair you may absolutely show those you expose to IF they need it. See, now we're getting in to the gaslighting of the affair. The cheater will do everything in their power to make YOU look bad all the while making themselves look good.
> 
> Case in point - during my wife's 5 year affair, she had convinced family and friends that I wasn't pulling the load in the marriage. That because I was flying all over the world that I didn't do sh-t when I was home. They all bought it, even to the point where my in-laws bought me a book on "becoming a better man"...a good book though, by Coach Tony Dungee, but I threw that f'ng thing in the trash after Dday and discovering that she had said those things.
> 
> ...


But first... first she gaslighted herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> I've been very angry and have had some blow out arguments over the last few months. It comes and goes now but I do have a lot of anger and resentment still over how I was kicked to the curb so easily, how my son's life has been torn apart, how now I'm a part time parent and how I only see my soon half the time now. I also, feel tremendously sad for myself and my son. I think that is the main reason why I want to reconcile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your wife gas regressed to being a flighty, silly girl of about 17 who thinks it us perfectly fine and reasonable to have several boyfriends on the go at the same time. She needs to be told the real time and her real age.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> But first... first she gaslighted herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. That is the compartmentalization. The lie she told herself to get to that point. It's the Land of Unicorns & Rainbows that she held deep in her psyche and wanted no one else to ever know about.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family,(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're her fall back


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family,(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's not giving you a mixed message, its just the way you treat your b!tch to keep him hanging on.

*Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.*

go to the link below for MMSLP, you need this now, read it tonight for an explanation as to what women need emotionally from a man


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Theseus said:


> I disagree with some others here about exposing it to her boss and co-workers. That seems unnecessarily vindictive rather than productive. You want someone who will end the affair on her own, not because circumstances ended it. Otherwise, she will just have an affair with someone else later.
> 
> Moreover, this is your child's mother, and if she has no job, then one way or the other you are going to end up paying more for child support or other expenses.


If they are coworkers you always expose to the place they work unless you are not going to reconcile and just do not care if they keep seeing each other. They CANNOT work together and stop the affair.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> She has considered reconciling but I think mostly out of guilt and because of wanting to do what is best for our son. She has compared the affair like about being on cocaine although I don't get the impression that the OM feels as strongly. Thanks for your suggestions.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Live and learn. I'm sure you know now that "time alone" almost always supports cake eating but It probably seemed sincere when she was saying it. I'm not big on reconciliation after infidelity. She made her choices and they are her's to shoulder. Don't feel pity. Just expose it, complete the divorce and get away from her knowing that she broke her promise to you as a partner and that you deserved better than that.

Wiping your hands clean of her and what she's done will take such a load off of your shoulders. I would expose it to their work and his wife and her family but I would NOT expose it to any children involved.


----------



## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

aug said:


> Because she knows she did wrong, and you allowed her to continue without major consequences. She lost respect for you.


It kills me but yep.. Not something you want to hear.

The Fake R threw me way off. I didn't see she was actually biding her time. She was good. Of course me being a cop also limits the things I can do that others can. She knows that as does the OM. He wants and encounter with me just to get me suspended and arrested. Trust me it KILLS me that I have to suck it up when I see him.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. ... Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.


It does make sense. You just have to figure out how she's thinking. You only see two options. She can choose to be with you OR she can choose to be with him. So when she doesn't make one of those two choices, it's confusing to you.

You just need to think outside your box. She's choosing to have both of you. When you look at it from her perspective, she's acting rationally.

What you have to do is decide whether you want an open marriage, or not.

Good luck.


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

If she wanted to reconcile, she'd be living with you where she could be held accountable for her whereabouts and her activities. 

She is not.

What is happening is SHE is being 'civil and friendly' because she has to live with you in her life, doesn't want you messing with her life any more, and wants to look good to the family.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You are nothing to her but company when her bf isn't available and free baby sitting when he is available to be with her.

You need to stop enabling her and stop going along with it for the crumbs she throws you

Do you know why she's happy? Because its all working perfectly for her. She's got the bf when she wants romance and sex, and she's got you when needs stuff repaired and kids watched.

Exposé and destroy the affair, only then can you begin hoping for an improved relationship,


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

What your wife is doing makes perfect sense to her.

She loves you but is not "in love" with you. She has told you that herself. Do you think she's lying?

When she says "in love," she means romantic love, sexual love - that's what she feels for the other man.

There is a Cheater's Handbook, I am sure of it. In the Handbook, there is a section on Cheater-Speak. According to the Handbook, "I love you but I'm not 'in love' with you" = "I am 'in love' with someone else."

She has sexual desire for the other man. The fact that you don't think he is as interested in her as she is in him also makes perfect sense. She wants him, but she can't completely have him. He makes her keep working for it, he is a challenge to her, and thus he is keeping her sexual and romantic interest.

You she has had for a long time, even now, you are like a little lap dog, all she has to do is give the word and you will come running to "fill her love bank." She enjoys spending time with you, especially since you do a lot of unpleasant stuff for her that she doesn't like to do. What is that stuff? I don't know, you tell me, but I know that you are doing it, because this also is right out of the Cheater's Handbook. Again, in the section on Cheater-Speak, "I hope we can always be friends" = "I don't ever want to have sex with you again, but I still want you to do all of that unpleasant stuff that I don't like to do that you've been doing for me for all these years."

She feels guilty for what she's done to you, but not enough to stop. She feels sorry for you, she thinks to herself, this poor clueless guy has no idea I've been boffing someone else for two years.

Should you expose? And to whom? And what should you tell them? You should expose to her family and close friends and your family and close friends, to her co-workers you are acquainted with, and to human resources. And to other man's wife. I don't know if you get much out of the exposure other than having people stop believing whatever lies she's been telling about you. What has she been telling people is the reason for the separation? Do you know (from someone other than your wife)? I'm sure she's not telling them it's all her fault and none of yours. I would bet she is telling them all of your faults and none of hers.

Please leave your son out of the exposure. Tell your son that mom and dad both always will love him no matter what, that you probably are not getting back together, and if he needs more details than that you tell him that there are some things that are between a husband and wife that are not appropriate for an 8-year-old to hear, and just reassure him that it is not his fault, is between you and your wife, and that you BOTH always love him. NEVER LIE TO YOUR SON, if he asks you directly if mom has a boyfriend, then tell him yes. Only answer what he asks and tell him only as much as you need to to satisfy him. Your son derives his value from both of you and it will do him no good to damage his relationship with his mother or to make him think badly of her. Let him form his own opinion of his mother based on his relationship with her.

When you expose to your and her family and close friends, make a brief phone call to each person who can have an influence on your wife, tell them that she has been cheating on you from before you separated, that you just found out, and that you have evidence that is indisputable, and that your wife has admitted to it. Name the other man and how your wife knows him. Ask them to call your wife to try to influence her to come back to you and work on the marriage. Don't show them any evidence unless they ask, and even then, be careful with what evidence you show, show them only enough to convince them and let them know that you have a lot more.

The work exposure should be done by letter to human resources and the president of the company. It should state that your wife and other man have been carrying on an affair at work, that it has broken up two young families, your wife's and the other man's, and that you are considering suing for alienation of affection and negligent infliction of emotional harm due to their lax management oversight that fosters a toxic work environment where affairs are apparently commonplace. State that the facts are that it is at least a two-year affair, that as far as you can tell much of it was carried on on company time and using company resources, and since their company did so much to aid the affair, you consider them fair game for a lawsuit for the harm done to you through their negligence. Ask them to respond to you in writing, and state that if you don't hear from them within 10 days you will consider pursuing the matter with an attorney. 

The goal is not to file a lawsuit, you probably don't have a legal leg to stand on, the goal is to inform them of the affair and get them to end it by disciplining your wife and the other man. Most companies want to accomplish their business goals so they can make a profit; they don't want to have to spend time dealing with letters like yours because two of their employees can't keep their pants on and focus on work.

Beginning immediately, stop being your wife's "friend." If you want to get her back, you have to stop being so available to her. It hasn't worked for you. It hasn't worked for anyone I know of. Look at the other threads here, if you don't believe me, and see if you can find one where the betrayed husband won back his cheating wife by being her friend.

Stop doing things for your wife. Let her handle all her unpleasant stuff. Let her know that you had held out hope that she would come back to you, but now you're sick of waiting and you are moving on. Stop talking to her except to discuss your child and the separating of your finances. If you are paying for any of her stuff, stop paying for her stuff. Let her go. This may sound like the opposite of what you should be doing, but this is the course that works, IF anything is going to work. Many times, by the betrayed spouse posts here, the marriage is too far gone for anything to work.

When she thinks she might lose you, then she might come back. But don't count on it - there are no guarantees. But this way, at least you still have your dignity and self-respect, and you are not stuck in limbo any longer wondering if she ever will come to her senses while she uses you as a baby sitter so she can bang the other man.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

*Just Let Them Go*

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end, 
let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,
"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse,
and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with,
wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?
Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.
A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?
To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?
What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?
They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

And for your last point,
The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.
You don't fight them on this issue.
You agree with their feelings,
they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",
you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",
you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, *you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair*, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

*You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior *- something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> *Just Let Them Go*
> 
> Just Let Them Go
> 
> ...



:iagree: It's hard to let someone you love go, but it's the best way to get them to turn around. It's like they think "My BS doesn't want me? Now I'm left with this guy I never have really truly loved....this sucks....I want my BS back."


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Prometheus1 said:


> Even her actions have given a mixed message. Maybe I'm misinterpreting it but all Fall she was extremely kind, thoughtful and generous to me. She insisted I spend Christmas Day with her family,(for our son's sake). We went skiing as a family for 3 days. ( I had just found out about the new boyfriend but hadn't yet discovered that their relationship went back 1 1/2 years.) The OM was still living with his wife at this point. Why was/is she so nice to me, why does she continue to want to spend time with me? It just makes me crazy. It makes no sense.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry man she is just keeing you in the game if things don't workout otherwise Do the 180 ALL FVCKEN READY


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I didn't do the Friday night pizza night with them. I just said thanks but I have plans. My plan is to expose the affair to her work place and to be civil in regards to parenting issues but otherwise try to go as dark as possible. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Prometheus1 said:


> Thanks for all the advice everyone. I didn't do the Friday night pizza night with them. I just said thanks but I have plans. My plan is to expose the affair to her work place and to be civil in regards to parenting issues but otherwise try to go as dark as possible. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You don't have to be civil, you have to be honest.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Prom did she take the high road? Eh no!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Before you do anything else, get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It's a quick read. with the advice you are getting here adn the book you can put a solid plan together.


----------



## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

SomedayDig said:


> Case in point - during my wife's 5 year affair, she had convinced family and friends that I wasn't pulling the load in the marriage. That because I was flying all over the world that I didn't do sh-t when I was home. They all bought it, even to the point where my in-laws bought me a book on "becoming a better man"...a good book though, by Coach Tony Dungee, but I threw that f'ng thing in the trash after Dday and discovering that she had said those things.
> 
> Everyone...EVERYONE now knows because SHE admitted she lied about it. But the point is...she gaslighted everyone.
> 
> *And they bought it*.


This bit is the bit I can never forgive her for. 

It's hard enough when thinking about the usual actual adultery deceptions, the daily lying to meet up and do her stuff but when then finding a reason to do it and finding out they actually don't have any reasons for doing so then invent a monumental lie about how their life is a misery because of you ! - so you in effect "made them do it" 

My conclusion post separation is that that is pure fking evil. Pure evil. They sit and watch you burn, roast on the spit in the eyes of all and sundry to justify their appalling serial infidelity.

While they have got even you, the betrayed, believing their shvte they are safe in the knowledge that they can escape with their 'justification' but for me unfortunately I realized what she had done in this respect far too late.

At the end when I realized people thought ill of me and she was this poor 'victim', I've ended up cutting them all off - Fk them. I know what went on and who did what to the letter. Trouble is my stbxw is a pro actress and given ten minutes with her you'd believe her rather than me.! She's good. 

Difference between you and I tho Dig is that you have had the repentance and are in r. Mine had no intention of owing up so an r for me was completely untenable and thank fk she's out of my life - 8 years too late tho!


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

My understanding of Dr. Harley's approach at Marriage Builders is that when an affair is discovered you expose first, then do Plan A (build love deposits) to show your WS the good side of being with you and then if the affair didn't end after 1 to 6 months them to go to Plan B where you go dark. Has anyone here tried Plan A, and if so did it work?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SomedayDig (Jul 17, 2012)

Headspin said:


> This bit is the bit I can never forgive her for.
> 
> It's hard enough when thinking about the usual actual adultery deceptions, the daily lying to meet up and do her stuff but when then finding a reason to do it and finding out they actually don't have any reasons for doing so then invent a monumental lie about how their life is a misery because of you ! - so you in effect "made them do it"
> 
> ...


I'm glad that Regret got it and has done and continues to do the heavy lifting...even after a year of working on reconciliation. Hell, just the other night 3 of her colleagues took her out to dinner - a going away sort of thing since we're moving in a couple months. Regret immediately asked me if I would like her to turn her GPS on for me. No prompting, but because she knows how important transparency is, she asked.

I'm sorry your wife or anyone elses for that matter just don't get it. F'ng sucks, brother.



Prometheus1 said:


> My understanding of Dr. Harley's approach at Marriage Builders is that when an affair is discovered you expose first, then do Plan A (build love deposits) to show your WS the good side of being with you and then if the affair didn't end after 1 to 6 months them to go to Plan B where you go dark. Has anyone here tried Plan A, and if so did it work?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is the issue I have with Dr. Harley...YOU shouldn't have to love deposit squat. It was that chapter that made me chuck the book in the recycle bin. Even my wife thought it was a bit over the top with regards to the work the betrayed spouse is asked to do.

Being you...the man in her life...should be enough to prove anything. Hell, that should have been in her brain before the affair. It wasn't. If YOU are willing to give a second chance then, in my opinion, THAT is the only "love deposit" you need to make.


----------



## goshjosh (Mar 23, 2013)

Prometheus1: I feel for you man. Sorry you are in this sh!tty place. My situation is similar to yours and I know how hard it is to convince the heart to do what the head knows is correct. 

An affair creates a bizarre power dynamic. The BS does not actually want a D, so they keep the door open to R. The WS may want to cake eat, so they keep the door open to R. Sometimes it is genuine, but if it is not, it seems like a recipe for further pain. 

It is very difficult to tell if WS is being genuine or not. It is very difficult to trust them, so their words are not enough. As others have said try to focus on actions. It is not easy. I am struggling with a similar problem. Sometimes you see what you want to see.

I wonder if we want to R because we think it will turn the clock back xx years to when things were better.


----------



## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Headspin said:


> This bit is the bit I can never forgive her for.
> 
> It's hard enough when thinking about the usual actual adultery deceptions, the daily lying to meet up and do her stuff but when then finding a reason to do it and finding out they actually don't have any reasons for doing so then invent a monumental lie about how their life is a misery because of you ! - so you in effect "made them do it"



This is an integral part of the cheater's script - they are not responsible for anything - it is all your fault.

My stbxw did the same thing - although not to any of our common friends because it wouldn't work. She had a set of toxic girlfriends who were all separated/divorced - many of them in affairs (this is a group of about 6 middle aged women). After separating, my stbxw would drop lines like "XXXX said she was surprised I didn't leave years ago....) Now here's the thing - my stbxw said this, expecting it to show that she was a victim. But the funniest thing is nobody in the family (my kids, me) had ever met any of her toxic group of friends. They were kept completely separate (not even coming to the door when they were having a GNO - they would text from their car that they were here). So their opinion of our marriage was 100% from my stbxw!

Cheaters ALWAYS want to play the "victim".


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for your compassionate response gosh josh. It is appreciated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Prom

Just the fact you are here on TAM, listening, thinking tells me you are going to be ok.

The key now is to kill the affair. And not just at her work or her family but the OM's wife as well. I think you Said they are separated or divorced now.

Contact his wife no matter what. I wouldn't be surprised how much she can enlighten you.

Good Luck


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Prom, you are well past Hartleys plan A/B exposure script because she already move out and put you on the back burner.

You've already need a terrific and great nice guy, hanging with her,listening attentively to her etc. you've already done plan A. While the A wasn't exposed by you at her work etc, her intention to abandon the marriage ha been put on the table , so the making her see what she will be loosing is far gone.

She say, she left anyway, and you've already been giving giving giving since she left.

Plan A s not working.

Instead you need to go the go nuclear and go dark route to disrupt the affair.


----------



## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Prom, you are well past Hartleys plan A/B exposure script because she already move out and put you on the back burner.
> 
> You've already need a terrific and great nice guy, hanging with her,listening attentively to her etc. you've already done plan A. While the A wasn't exposed by you at her work etc, her intention to abandon the marriage ha been put on the table , so the making her see what she will be loosing is far gone.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


----------



## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

If she wanted to stay or wanted desposits, she'd be home with the father of her child and the man she had a LTR with.

She isn't. She isn't being transparent.

Why bother exposing IMO? She isn't coming back and it will just foster bigger animosity. I wont even mention the child support issue. You'll be on the hook for that if she's fired.

But she never wanted to marry you and she's walked away. That tells you all you need to know.

You already exposed...and she's still gone.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Prometheus1 said:


> My understanding of Dr. Harley's approach at Marriage Builders is that when an affair is discovered you expose first, then do Plan A (build love deposits) to show your WS the good side of being with you and then if the affair didn't end after 1 to 6 months them to go to Plan B where you go dark. Has anyone here tried Plan A, and if so did it work?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Lots of people have tried Plan A. I have never seen it work.

Most people, who desire to reconcile when confronted with an affair, try to be nicer. They try to make those love deposits. They try to win their spouses back. But it doesn't work.

We have a saying here that you can't "nice" someone out of an affair. If you want to reconcile, you have to stop accepting your wife's affair. You have to stop being Mr. Plan B for her. She either chooses you, or she chooses divorce. There is no other option. Sometimes, that works.

And yes, in the long run, you will need to recognize the faults that you have and make improvements. Very few people cheat in happy marriages. Your wife probably wasn't having her needs met. But before you start changing for your wife, your wife has to dump her boyfriend.

Good luck.


----------



## Prometheus1 (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks again everyone. Has anyone exposed and found (or feel) it made reconciliation impossible?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

Prometheus1 said:


> Thanks again everyone. Has anyone exposed and found (or feel) it made reconciliation impossible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why are you wanting to reconcile with this selfish, cake-eating cheat?

Why not turn your energy towards making yourself happy, becoming your own emotionally independent person? 

Exposure serves to sometimes end the affair. Sometimes. But if you expose and end her affair, the ONLY reason she would even want to reconcile with you is because you are her second choice, her backup plan, and not because she wants or desires you.

You need to give it up Prometheus. This woman does not want you.


----------



## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Prometheus1 said:


> Thanks again everyone. Has anyone exposed and found (or feel) it made reconciliation impossible?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes. There are no guarantees. There is no course of action that can guarantee that your wife will choose to recommit to your marriage. But there are courses of action that have little chance of success.

Ignoring your wife's affair and allowing her to make you her Plan B is a plan with little chance of success.


----------



## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

To answer your question on page 3 tread 45, IT"S BECAUSE YOU ARE HER DOORMAT and she likes to step on you and laugh later.

Just thought you might want to know!

In case you are going to use the chestnut," I am too old for another woman my age"!, go to any upscale 55 and older park that has a Saturday evening mixer and see what happens.
I went to one in Tampa, FL.

Just my 2 cents David from Germany


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Exposure will kill the affair or not. Especially exposing a man to his family, friends and work. If he has anything going for him, he will throw your wife under the bus.

Exposure will strengthen the marriage. If it is used to say she can't reconcile because of exposure, that just means she is using it for the latest excuse.

Marriages fail because of infidelity, not people knowing about it.

BTW, if you are still working on this, you should have moderator move it to the coping with infidelity section. You will get a lot more posters.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, and put the assh*le on cheaterville.com and let him know he is on it. Try to get a picture of him on facebook etc.


----------

