# Why these thoughts...



## RandomDude

This is something I haven't been admitting to myself, but the thoughts have been crossing my mind. My ex-wife and I have lodged our papers but it's taking longer than expected. In the meantime, over the course of our seperation I've developed a deep respect for her, and even though our interactions have been limited, I can see she has matured.

When I do see her, what we had -> it's dead. I no longer see it in her eyes, hear it in her speech, or feel it with her friendly touches. But looking back she was a good wife. I complained about the dumbest things and then just made it worse and then complained again, over and over again. She still held onto our marriage until the very end, until I kicked her fingers off that is.

So... the thoughts come, and the pride that made me harden towards her enough to push forward the divorce, well... it can only shut up these thoughts for so long. It's time I address it. What are these thoughts? Are these normal? What is your advice?

Logically, I think it's best we remain friends, but never like best-friends like we were once. Our relationship took a big hit with marriage/divorce but it seems we are healing, and growing, even if growing apart. Bah! What the hell are these thoughts?


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## Hopeful Cynic

Time is healing your wounds, helping you forget the pain.

I think it depends on how/why you broke up? If you broke up because of her immaturity, and you see that she's now learning from your mistakes, I think it's normal for you to wonder if things would be different if you tried again.

The more important thing to keep in mind is, have you matured? Or are you still the same guy who wasn't right for her?

Not having a distraction (new girlfriend) anymore doesn't help you either. It just shows that you weren't dealing with the thoughts/feelings, you were only pushing them away (stuffing).

Focus on yourself, without distractions (new people or your ex) for a good long time. Get a handle on being a solid person all by yourself. You seem to be the type of person who feels incomplete without someone else around. Work on that! You will never have a successful relationship if you are always relying on the other person to 'complete you.' It's too much pressure for anyone to deal with.


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## RandomDude

Yup, been ignoring thoughts/feelings about ex, just been going "FK it, not going to think about it, had enough of it, as long as we're civil for the sake of our daughter, yay!"

Now I'm having enough of these thoughts kicking my ass as I walk. "Oy! *kick* Not finished yet! *kick*"
Turning around to confront the bastard now... bah!

Why we broke up? In the end we were getting nowhere with our issues, were the issues stupid? Yes
Have I matured? Not at all  However I have grown more self-aware and learnt quite alot through this experience.

As for completion, well, last year I had only a FWB arrangement, no relationship. No emotions, no feelings, just sex. And it's safer than jumping from partner to partner in ONSs and obviously better than picking up girls on the street. Only this year FWB became GF(now ex-GF)


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## SamuraiJack

Its natural to wonder "what if?" and to be attracted to a comfort you know. Problem is that comfort isnt there any more...just the echoes.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I have some friends who divorced and share a child. They have developed a deeper and more mature relationship and friendship between themselves than they had before. Both of them have talked about this separately to me, as if they are in awe about the wonder of it. But we divorced, why do I care more about him/her now? I miss him/her, hahahaha. They even visit each other, which is not a small task, given they are now on opposite sides of the world. One of them is in a relationship with another person, the other was to have a relationship rekindled but got dumped, however got support of the ex through it. 

It is what it is. You cannot define relationships and then 'bin' your feelings and emotions into them categorically. It doesn't work that way, although it might be more convenient because then there would be rules to follow about what to do and what to say and how you are 'supposed' to feel consequently...

Whatever you feel is the right way to feel. What you do or don't do about it is the measure of respect that you hold for the other party, and yourself.


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## coffee4me

RD, 
You've made comments in the past that women you are meeting do not measure up to your X. You've said things a
Like women only wanting money but X wasn't like that. 

Sounds like you've come to appreciate the good qualities your X had. Perhaps you are reflecting on why you couldn't recognize those qualities when you were married to her. 

I think it's good, that's how you learn about yourself.


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## Chuck71

If humans feel the least bit as if they could re-capture the past "glory days"

the mind will play tricks on them.


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## RandomDude

Thanks guys, I don't know what to make of these feelings, but I guess I should accept them. Have to admit though, the thoughts have come to my mind of "what if" in terms of trying again, but we've come too far on the road to divorce. It's just too late.

Truth remains, I don't think I can really meet a woman that matches her quality or have such incredible (at one time) chemistry with. As for me, well, all I can say is that she deserved better. At least she inherited some financial compensation.

You know, that's another thing, she didn't even argue about the "post-nup". She just didn't care, money, assets, wealth, it means nothing to her, didn't even make her flinch when I proposed the settlement to avoid having her inheriting shares of my business. She would have been content with nothing. I was quite surprised, and I will never forget it.

My ex-GF was a great woman too, even though she had high financial standards (and was her first priority in dating) she was still very give and take when we dated. However even though she possessed this great quality, she simply could not compare with my ex. Granted, ex-wife has always been surrounded by wealth (her family), but still...

Meh, I'm glad both of them are gone, they both deserve better than what they got.


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## Chuck71

Never know...... you could always be retreads

what pop always referred to him and mom

they married in '66, D 30 days later (no lie)

and re-married in '68


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## Thundarr

RandomDude said:


> This is something I haven't been admitting to myself, but the thoughts have been crossing my mind. My ex-wife and I have lodged our papers but it's taking longer than expected. In the meantime, over the course of our seperation I've developed a deep respect for her, and even though our interactions have been limited, I can see she has matured.
> 
> When I do see her, what we had -> it's dead. I no longer see it in her eyes, hear it in her speech, or feel it with her friendly touches. But looking back she was a good wife. I complained about the dumbest things and then just made it worse and then complained again, over and over again. She still held onto our marriage until the very end, until I kicked her fingers off that is.
> 
> So... the thoughts come, and the pride that made me harden towards her enough to push forward the divorce, well... it can only shut up these thoughts for so long. It's time I address it. What are these thoughts? Are these normal? What is your advice?
> 
> Logically, I think it's best we remain friends, but never like best-friends like we were once. Our relationship took a big hit with marriage/divorce but it seems we are healing, and growing, even if growing apart. Bah! What the hell are these thoughts?


I think it just means that you've maintained respect for your ex even though you guys were not compatible to be married. No it's not all that common but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. On the contrary I think it's good. And I don't think you're re-writing things now because I remember you saying similar things on past threads when you guys were attempting to keep it together.

I suppose the part I would worry about and maybe what's conflicting you as well is this; If I maintained respect or admiration for my partner yet still pulled away then it would have me questioning whether or not I would ever find someone who I wouldn't pull away from. I guess I'd try to think that through but I'm not sure what would come of the answers . Good luck.


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## RandomDude

In truth, I regret what I did (pushing for divorce), but at the same time I've seen her mature through it. I don't know what to think.


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## Decorum

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I have some friends who divorced and share a child. They have developed a deeper and more mature relationship and friendship between themselves than they had before. Both of them have talked about this separately to me, as if they are in awe about the wonder of it. But we divorced, why do I care more about him/her now? I miss him/her, hahahaha. They even visit each other, which is not a small task, given they are now on opposite sides of the world. One of them is in a relationship with another person, the other was to have a relationship rekindled but got dumped, however got support of the ex through it.
> 
> It is what it is. You cannot define relationships and then 'bin' your feelings and emotions into them categorically. It doesn't work that way, although it might be more convenient because then there would be rules to follow about what to do and what to say and how you are 'supposed' to feel consequently...
> 
> Whatever you feel is the right way to feel. What you do or don't do about it is the measure of respect that you hold for the other party, and yourself.


You see this a lot in young daters. They say "My girlfriend broke up with her boyfriend a year before we got together and was done but now she is rekindling it etc..

Rd, that was an insane time of emotion, things have settled a bit. You feel what you feel, and think what you think. Do you remember all the times you asked the question "how do I feel?

Its good you are trying to be honest with yourself.


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## RandomDude

Well... we are awaiting the divorce process now, would be rather awkward to even think about reconciliation now anyway. I don't know why my brain decided to feed me these stupid thoughts right at the end. Think I might be damaged... wait, meh, we already know that anyway.


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## Ynot

RandomDude said:


> In truth, I regret what I did (pushing for divorce), but at the same time I've seen her mature through it. I don't know what to think.


What you have seen is her making changes - the same changes you need to make yourself. In effect she has done the 180 on you.


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## sammy3

I think what you are feeling is natural. D too is a process. You are not living your life right now aline. This will take time. At this time there are many good things to learn about yourself. 

Talk to your wife and tell her what you are feeling. Let her know. Discuss it with her, regardless, which way it ends up... 
Don't let it add to the list of regrets... 

~sammy


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## RandomDude

sammy3 said:


> I think what you are feeling is natural. D too is a process. You are not living your life right now aline. This will take time. At this time there are many good things to learn about yourself.
> 
> Talk to your wife and tell her what you are feeling. *Let her know. Discuss it with her*, regardless, which way it ends up...
> Don't let it add to the list of regrets...
> 
> ~sammy


Thanks but, well I don't think there's much left to discuss, she does know (don't admit it much) despite everything I respect and trust her. She's earned both. But there's just nothing left, we've moved on a long time ago. I don't want to make things awkward.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Decorum said:


> You see this a lot in young daters. They say "My girlfriend broke up with her boyfriend a year before we got together and was done but now she is rekindling it etc..
> 
> Rd, that was an insane time of emotion, things have settled a bit. You feel what you feel, and think what you think. Do you remember all the times you asked the question "how do I feel?
> 
> Its good you are trying to be honest with yourself.



Interesting. My friends are older: 60+ and 50+. They were together for many years and have one child who is 15. Neither of them is the type to date around or to partner up for the sake of having a partner. They are both people who give a lot of consideration and thought to their relationships of all kinds. 

I guess younger people do have a lot of hindsight feelings that jerk them around...older people tend not to, we understand we make decisions and move on, we cannot go back. It's futile, not even an option, even if you get back with someone it's a new relationship, new time, new space, sure you have history but it's not a shared history as your perceptions of it are totally different.


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## LongWalk

RandomDude said:


> Well... we are awaiting the divorce process now, would be rather awkward to even think about reconciliation now anyway. I don't know why my brain decided to feed me these stupid thoughts right at the end. Think I might be damaged... wait, meh, we already know that anyway.


You don't have put your heart out to get stamped on. Two things you could do:

1) Invite to some joint activity with your daughter. Include inviting her for a meal. 

2) Write a letter apologizing for your shortcomings and taking responsibility for running your marriage into the ground. Give her credit for having been a good wife. If she is a reasonable person and not bitter, she may be grateful that you had the courage to speak up.

Whether or not you could ever get back together is a question you needn't broach out of the blue. I don't think women like shocks of this kind.

It is important that you don't sent wishy washy messages jerking her around.

re: ex GF who is gone
Does your stbx know about your ex gf? She might just think, right he is plan B'ing me.

Is she dating? You probably don't even know.


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## RandomDude

We did have some joint activities already, they were quite rare but it was those times that we had some talks. I have apologised for my shortcomings during our marriage and she as well. She knows I still respect and trust her, I have voiced it, just not often. In truth, I admitted it to her to help her find closure and move on. Our relationship now is more like "old friends" now actually.

She knows I've been dating and she as well. She doesn't know the details nor do I know the details of her sex life, we don't talk about it.


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## LongWalk

Tricky situation.

I think there are many people who look back at their failed marriages and say to themselves, "what was I thinking." That is why having mentors or therapy or TAM can help gain insight. Change is harder to bring about.

Do you have zero physical contact with your ex? You might try giving her a hug to start.


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## RandomDude

We are as physical as any old friends, nothing more. There's no feelings behind it, she doesn't hug me the way she did in the past nor I her. I don't know, these thoughts are foolish really.

In the end, even if I want to, I dont think there's much left, I'm FZed to the core.


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## 06Daddio08

You instigated the breakup of a lengthy relationship with FWB turned GF just over a month ago. Something you went back and forth on for a while afterwards, what you're thinking / feeling with the ex (regardless of the direction you're leaning) happens to a lot of people.

It's natural to start analyzing things in a situation like this. All it means, is you have things to work on.


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## RandomDude

Guess it's pointless thoughts then...


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## just got it 55

RandomDude said:


> In truth, I regret what I did (pushing for divorce), but at the same time I've seen her mature through it. I don't know what to think.


RD have you told her this ?

55


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## LongWalk

I don't think it's pointless.

If you have the courage to tell your stbx that you understand that breaking up your marriage was mistake that your regret and wish you could undo, she may appreciate it. She may think over reconciliation. The chance must be less that 50%, given that you have both moved on. 

One key is respect. Would she feel that you changing your mind was merely further evidence that you are unreliable? Easter is coming soon maybe you can have some activity together?


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## RandomDude

Well, she knows I respect and trust her, somethings don't need to be said no?

I've never been unreliable with her, I just don't want to make things too awkward between us, it took a long time to even get to where we are now - to rekindle our friendship after years of tension and bitterness struggling to maintain our civility for the sake of our daughter.


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## Chuck71

an olive branch...... doesn't hurt


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## LongWalk

Sometimes words are cheap. Other times saying the right thing makes all the difference.

If you bring up the idea of reconciliation and she replies, "no way, Jose!", then maybe you drop it. You don't want to become a stalker.

At the same time if you think she is good person and you sort of blew it, then not telling her is dishonest. You feel friend zoned now. If you kissed, would feelings return?


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## Thundarr

I don't know RandomDude. You guys wavered back and forth already a year or two ago. Own whatever mistakes you think you think you made and learn from it. But don't mess up what you've worked fro. You have a good situation now because your children have parents who respect each other. Don't play with fire and mess that up for them.


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## RandomDude

Isn't a rather bad time for reconciliation? Even if in the off chance we both want to - we already lodged our papers and just waiting for it to be "official".

And yeah, I may regret not saying anything now, but I would regret it more if things are made awkward again and our co-parenting arrangements suffer a setback.


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## Chuck71

When my long term relationships and my one M was on the rocks

I always laid all my cards on the table-no regrets. An immediate R was a toss up

but I gave all. They all three came back, some sooner than others.

My 4th, jury is still out. But I somewhat know how that will unfold.

I have probably been laughed at for throwing it all on the table

but I had no regrets. A man near my pop's age told me almost 25 years ago

if you treated them with kindness, they will always return, then the decision

is yours. He is 3 for 3. He will soon be 4 for 4.


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## LongWalk

RandomDude said:


> Isn't a rather bad time for reconciliation? Even if in the off chance we both want to - we already lodged our papers and just waiting for it to be "official".
> 
> And yeah, I may regret not saying anything now, but I would regret it more if things are made awkward again and our co-parenting arrangements suffer a setback.


Your conditional statement, is it valid?

If RD speaks truth about his consideration of R based on stbx's positive character, and stbx rejects R, then stbx will punish RD and their children by becoming hostile and uncooperative.

Clearly this is contradictory.

There is nothing to stop you from writing a short note:



> Dear stbx,
> 
> During our separation I have of course thought a great deal about what went wrong with our marriage. I concluded that I bear the lion's share of responsibility for our failure. My first thoughts were of regret: "Had I been this or done that."
> 
> When I decided that the past cannot be undone, I asked myself about the future. Could I be the man that I wanted to be going forward? If so, with whom would I share the better version of myself? I thought about you. Would you like to meet and talk about it?
> 
> At present we have a good working relationship as co-parents. Regardless of whether you would ever consider reconciliation, I am sure we will remain good parents.
> 
> I understand that this may seem sudden, but I thought that I owed to the both of us to speak.


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## RandomDude

It would make things more awkward than hostile. Awkward is bad enough and our co-parenting efforts will suffer due to eventual difficulties in communication that will result.

As for the suggestion on the note, we've had those talks in person, sort of - I never hinted at reconciliation, not once. But, guess I can test the waters a bit more...

See how it goes...


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## LongWalk

For many people who divorce it is right decision. But for many it was the wrong decision. There is no knife to differentiate, except hindsight and gut feeling.

Anytime two people once had good chemistry and have children, there is something on which to build. The truth is that life is hard work. Marriage is no exception. If you have to work, why not fix the relationship that as some track record and the potential to offer a great reward?

Of course, the there is risk. What if you were to kiss, go to bed and feel nothing but emptiness while the other fell in love again or visa versa. I am not saying that it is simple. A Fleshlight only needs to be cleaned. Besides cleaning herself, a real life woman is a constant mystery who is a connection to the universe.


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## RandomDude

Well, I don't regret the seperation or divorce decision, it's forced us both to walk away for a time, and then have a better view of what fked up our marriage. We just walked away for too long... I dunno, have to see in the weekend. For now, just focusing on work, and waiting for my fleshlight!


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## RandomDude

Well guys, testing the waters have so far yielded unfavorable results; aka, it's dead between us. Yet I know that I have not really tried, only "tested the waters" using a very safe, somewhat "innocent" approach.

I'm tempted now to put the moves on my ex, be a little bolder and see what happens. In the end, she still remains the best option for me and our daughter, especially now as she has matured a great deal.


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## Chuck71

It's better to live with defeat than live with regret. Best of luck RD


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## LongWalk

Very hard to know what approach to take. Seduction. Straight forward physical contact? Discussion? There are women on TAM who might help.

One thing to remember invitations that are casual create less pressure. If you throw a weekend barbecue and invite guests who are common friends, you can throw it out there.


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## SamuraiJack

LongWalk said:


> Very hard to know what approach to take. Seduction. Straight forward physical contact? Discussion? There are women on TAM who might help.
> 
> One thing to remember invitations that are casual create less pressure. If you throw a weekend barbecue and invite guests who are common friends, you can throw it out there.


Oooooo. In front of so many people might be seen as pressure.

Why not fall back on the old favorite? Coffee?

Speaking from experience, ANYTHING you can do to make co-parenting easier will help. It will also make you look less neey and more "take charge" as you fend for your son and try to be the best dad ever.


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## RandomDude

Ex-wife knows all my moves so putting any moves on her will at the very least - make her suspicious that I'm contemplating reconciliation. Not exactly the most ideal angle to work with when it comes to relighting the flame and passion.

*sigh*


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## RandomDude

Well... can always just drop my pants and see what happens.


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## LongWalk

Should you be putting a move on her or starting some discussion?


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## SamuraiJack

Sounds like it might be a good time for straightforward talk and honest feelings.

Drop the chips and see where they land.

Maybe something is there to work with?


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## RandomDude

Straight forward talk will most likely be shot down with her going WTF for the next few weeks considering we're counting down to divorce already, just waiting for the courts to make us "official". 

Feeling stupid really... this close to divorce with our co-parenting arrangement established, our finances settled, and right at the last minute... I contemplate reconciliation...

:scratchhead:

I don't know I feel like an idiot just thinking about it. Not to mention I know she's been dating as well. And it's either she's kept it underwraps from our daughter 4 to 5-days a week (while I only had to keep it underwraps 2 to 3 days a week), or that she hasn't found someone to get serious with yet.

Regardless of this, I know how to "flirt" innocently, and the waters are cold. Ice. Cold. There's nothing within her that responds, its dead. So hey, chances are there's nothing really I can do anymore. Sure, these are rather "cold" "flirts" too, but I dunno. Diving into ice isn't pretty... need to melt it somehow first.


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## SamuraiJack

Maybe its just a form of last minute buyers remorse?
Scared of the unknown perhaps?

Nostalgia?

Or maybe you have a little bit of romantic thats pushing you.
Either way...the waters are cold.
Time to go find another place to fish.


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## RandomDude

Only problem is that this fish seems to be the only one of its kind.


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## Regretf

RandomDude said:


> Only problem is that this fish seems to be the only one of its kind.


I hear you, but there might be meat or chicken out there in the menú for you.


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## SamuraiJack

RandomDude said:


> Only problem is that this fish seems to be the only one of its kind.


Try the chicken....?


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## Chuck71

RD.... for the here and now, accept it for what it is. If you feel she is ice cold.... no matter what

your attempt may be, it will be ignored. Let time do its job.

Trust me...... if there is a feeling inside her now, next month, next year

she will definitely let you know. Just be open.....

But in the meantime, onward march. If you meet a great gal before she possibly reflects on the "good RD"

well...... her loss. This happens ALL the time


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## RandomDude

But I like fish...

@Lila

Well I have been driving this divorce so I don't blame her (including kicking her fingers off whenever she tried to reconcile). She doesn't know nor do I think she even dares to think that I may have a change of heart... 

Not to mention I doubt she'll be able to forgive a change of heart considering all that we've worked on to make our co-parenting work - she'll go bonkers for sure. She is cold now yes, but I dunno...

*sigh*

@Chuck

This is really starting to get to my brain, and actually I think revealing these thoughts to her... don't think either of us could handle it.

The onward march is looking like marching to the wilderness right now... nothing ahead either.


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## Chuck71

In my past relationships, I always lay all my cards on the table. By doing so... you have no regret.

If you have a kid together..... there's a good chance she could just look at you and know.

Females are very sharp at this. Was your 1st date near where you currently reside?

If so.... try that. Just throw it out there with no expectations.

I don't care who she may be seeing.... her thoughts will be on re-creating the first date

after she goes home. Win her back... maybe, maybe not.

But you did plant the seed. All you can do.....


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## RandomDude

*pulls hair*


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## Chuck71

In Game 3 of the 1989 NBA Finals, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, in the next to last game of his 

storied career, almost single handedly won the game for the Lakers. Magic Johnson went out 

in Game 1 and never returned. The Detroit Pistons had the better team that year, especially when Magic went out.

But Game 3, Kareem played as if he was 27 again. He left it all on the court. No regrets.

It does not matter how you start the race, it's how you finish it-John Wooten


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## norajane

RandomDude said:


> In truth, I regret what I did (pushing for divorce), but at the same time I've seen her mature through it. I don't know what to think.


RD, if I recall correctly, your wife abused you sexually, repeatedly. Your divorce was about more than irreconcilable differences. It was about respect and abuse.

It's normal to have some regrets about things not working out, especially if you aren't finding what you want in the dating scene. That does not mean in any way that the divorce is a mistake.


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## Rowan

RD, frankly, I suspect that you've gotten cold feet about the divorce now that it's getting close to being final. You want to try reconciling with your wife because you're scared, lonely, and horny. The problem, of course, is that none of those is sufficient reason to try to reconcile. 

And please, stop doing the whole push-pull bit. You've been pushing her away, now that her going away is actually happening, you're wanting to pull her back. That reads to me - and likely also would to her - as a case where you don't _really_ want her until/unless you might really lose her. This limbo of separation has been comfortable, but the finality of divorce you find scary. Again, that is not a good reason to try to reconcile.

The fact that you're worried putting the moves on her might make her "suspicious" that you're contemplating reconciliation is a clear indication that you're not actually interested in truly working out the myriad issues that led to your divorce. That's a huge red flag for some serious emotional unavailability issues. She's got plenty of issues of her own that would need to be professionally addressed. But, if you really wanted her and wanted to truly fix your marriage, you wouldn't be concerned if she though you wanted to reconcile - because you _would_ want that and her knowing it would be the logical place to start. 

Co-dependence is not a healthy place from which to approach any woman. It's a toxic trap that keeps you mired in a truly dysfunctional relationship. Get yourself healthy and you'll either be in a better place from which to consider your ex-wife or, hopefully, a much better place from which to approach women of quality who might actually be capable of a healthy relationship.


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## Chuck71

norajane said:


> RD, if I recall correctly, your wife abused you sexually, repeatedly. Your divorce was about more than irreconcilable differences. It was about respect and abuse.
> 
> It's normal to have some regrets about things not working out, especially if you aren't finding what you want in the dating scene. That does not mean in any way that the divorce is a mistake.


another old thread I obviously missed


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## 3Xnocharm

RandomDude said:


> Straight forward talk will most likely be shot down with her going WTF for the next few weeks considering we're counting down to divorce already, just waiting for the courts to make us "official".
> 
> Feeling stupid really... this close to divorce with our co-parenting arrangement established, our finances settled, and right at the last minute... I contemplate reconciliation...
> 
> :scratchhead:
> 
> I don't know I feel like an idiot just thinking about it. Not to mention I know she's been dating as well. And it's either she's kept it underwraps from our daughter 4 to 5-days a week (while I only had to keep it underwraps 2 to 3 days a week), or that she hasn't found someone to get serious with yet.
> 
> Regardless of this, I know how to "flirt" innocently, and the waters are cold. Ice. Cold. There's nothing within her that responds, its dead. So hey, chances are there's nothing really I can do anymore. Sure, these are rather "cold" "flirts" too, but I dunno. Diving into ice isn't pretty... need to melt it somehow first.


Look, RD...WAKE UP. You DONT WANT HER. You are flailing on your own right now, that is the ONLY reason you have on those damn rose colored glasses when it comes to her. How quickly you have chosen to overlook the very serious issues that drove you apart in the first place. Go back and read your own threads, the two of you together was NOT GOOD. Snap out of it!!


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## SamuraiJack

3Xnocharm said:


> Look, RD...WAKE UP. You DONT WANT HER. You are flailing on your own right now, that is the ONLY reason you have on those damn rose colored glasses when it comes to her. How quickly you have chosen to overlook the very serious issues that drove you apart in the first place. *Go back and read your own threads, the two of you together was NOT GOOD. Snap out of it!*!


Remember, no matter how good it looks now, it can ALWAYS return to the way it was.


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## LongWalk

Didn't know you rejected her appeals for R more than once. Why should she trust you now?


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## norajane

LongWalk said:


> Didn't know you rejected her appeals for R more than once. Why should she trust you now?


HE shouldn't trust her now or ever after what she did to him during their marriage.


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## RandomDude

It's been years since all that crap and looking back we simply didn't manage either of our issues properly (my emotional unavailability + push/pull, her insecurity + sex addiction). Over the years seeing her every week she has matured alot and sure I don't know if she's changed in that department but I can't know unless I try yes?

I did shoot her down repeatedly however when she wanted to R, not to mention several other difficulties in the way of R now so... nothing may come out of this. Just random silly thoughts.


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## Thundarr

RandomDude said:


> It's been years since all that crap and looking back we simply didn't manage either of our issues properly (my emotional unavailability + push/pull, her insecurity + sex addiction). Over the years seeing her every week she has matured alot and sure I don't know if she's changed in that department but I can't know unless I try yes?
> 
> I did shoot her down repeatedly however when she wanted to R, not to mention several other difficulties in the way of R now so... nothing may come out of this. Just random silly thoughts.


Why these thoughts? It's because there are things that you respect about your ex even though you were not compatible with her. Just remember that you've had that level of respect for her from day one ( I remember from your other threads ) and you still chose to push forward with divorce.


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## RandomDude

And my pride has since been crumbled...


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## poppyseed

As someone else said, you now have a civil relationship with your ex-wife. At least, the end was better than "during"...We all hate the sense of loss. But not all marriages are meant to last. Only compatible matches will survive. Some couples learn to love deeper. Others simply struggle along and perish. You don't like it because it feels like you lost. There are things you cannot control. You weren't good together. But you are good separate. You gain a good friend in the end. You weren't great together. That doesn't make you a bad guy. It's a mismatch doomed to make each other unhappy. Not good for a long haul. Cherish the fruit of friendship. You cannot make this into something else. I feel for you but you'll soon get over this "phase".


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## RandomDude

*sigh*

Guess it's the end of the road


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## 2ntnuf

RandomDude said:


> And my pride has since been crumbled...


Pride goeth before a fall, but we all need good self-esteem. I'm guessing this crumbled pride shows through sometimes and may prevent those women you would be most interested in from allowing themselves to open up and show you they are interested.


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## SamuraiJack

RandomDude said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Guess it's the end of the road


Yep. Time to let go of it and let it float away.
Chances are good that you are romanticizing it in some way and what you need to do is open yourself to the possibilities of better things.

It's tough.
I get it.
I loved a woman once very very deeply and got hurt very badly by her. I still have unresolved feelings about the divorce to this day.
But the romantic ending isnt coming..and it never will.

Time to move on.


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## Chuck71

Sorry for posting and not being aware of your back story with her. There are parts of my XW I will

always love, just a fact. But who she turned into was a stranger. I do not wish harm to her, I wish her well.

I can't relate to strangers, that's what she turned into. When I saw her for the first time in about

nine months.... it was like I didn't know who she was. I felt nothing inside. Some day.... you will to RD


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## RandomDude

I see her every week


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## 2ntnuf

ouch.


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## RandomDude

Yes, she'll always be a part of my life for more than another decade. Doesn't help that the woman I'm seeing now just isn't the woman I wanted to divorce. Or maybe I'm just not seeing any of the bad anymore. 

Meh... could be worse


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## 2ntnuf

You are not with her constantly, so it's likely you aren't seeing her true self. Now, she likely is changed some. You can't know how much or if she'd revert back to who she was with you around all the time. Not blaming anyone. You really don't know until you've been with someone a while. Same as any other dating situation that turns into marriage.


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## LongWalk

Ask her to lunch or coffee. Just chat and be friendly versus needy. If she talks about her life, listen. You need not make any declaration.


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## RandomDude

Tempted to ask my little spy about mummy...

Though our daughter is already a double agent, and will most likely report my questions to ex, making things awkward. It's a topic we've closed as well, we already helped her come to terms with it.

Hell, another thing too, we had to crush our daughter's hope. We've already come so far...


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## 2ntnuf

That's not fair. It's too much for her little heart to handle. Do your own work. And, keep it quiet.


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## RandomDude

Aye, so another reason for letting this all go right? I dunno...


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## 2ntnuf

RandomDude said:


> Aye, so another reason for letting this all go right? I dunno...


What? That's not a reason for letting "this" go. It's just about your daughter, whom, I feel bad for, even though I don't know her or you. I don't want her wish and wish and have her heart broken when it doesn't work out or if you decide not to try. It's none of her business. She just needs daddy, and I'm sure you love her and show her, and she loves you. Get me? The marriage is up to you and your wife or ex, whatever you call her now. 

Separate the two. Love your daughter for being your daughter, not for what she might be able to do for you. I'm sure you do, but you can see how what you posted might read. Don't know if I've ever, in the past agreed with doing those things? I can't remember and am in a better place now and not desperate any more. So, I apologize if I've ever led you down that path. 

You do see that, don't you?


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## norajane

Did your wife go to therapy for a long time to work on whatever issues she has that allowed her to sexually abuse you, repeatedly? No? Then stay away from any thoughts of reconciliation because abusers don't just stop being abusers. You'll just end up back where you were, never knowing if today is the day she decides to stick it to you again and leave you a destroyed shell of a person again.

Maybe you should consider therapy to figure out why you'd put yourself in that position again.


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## 2ntnuf

Ele posted this in another thread. I haven't read it yet, but I trust that she picked a good site to post. Take a look and see if it will help you understand what might be going on with you. 

Link Between Love Oxytocin and Mental Health Issues | Energetics Institute


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## RandomDude

She has gone to therapy, not to mention she was quite shattered when I left. The thing about her sex addiction is that towards the end of living together we were making progress, however we simply had too much pains to keep going, and I had too much pride.

Seeing her again today when she comes to pick our daughter up, don't know what to say though.


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## RandomDude

Thought about singing this to her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzHZx66gVBQ

meh lol


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## 2ntnuf

RandomDude said:


> She has gone to therapy, not to mention she was quite shattered when I left. The thing about her sex addiction is that towards the end of living together we were making progress, however we simply had too much pains to keep going, and I had too much pride.
> 
> Seeing her again today when she comes to pick our daughter up, don't know what to say though.


Didn't you go for a while? I forget. See, if you look at my post with the link, you will realise it's brain chemicals similar to HB, but in this case, since she didn't treat you well, you are using chemicals to protect yourself, not like drugs, it's all natural, produced in the body and you can't stop it unless you see a doctor. Thing is, no doctor will rip out a pituitary gland for no reason. lol

So, you maybe need to talk to someone that can help you on a regular basis get a grip on those hormones making you want her. It's up to you. I don't know how she would treat you now, but what bothers me is, if you haven't changed, will you trigger her to revert to her past behavior with you? I don't know. 

That's why I think you need to talk with someone. I think, even if you are thinking alright, they would be able to help you to realize it and build that self-esteem surrounding finding a compatible partner. Of course, I'm not a doctor and there are others here who might be able to help you more. I really think you might benefit from some counseling.

Good song, by the way. I enjoyed it.


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## Chuck71

RandomDude said:


> Thought about singing this to her:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzHZx66gVBQ
> 
> meh lol


Ugh.... sing that to her after a fifth of Scotch.....

talk about a Kodak moment.

try this instead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GugsCdLHm-Q


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## RandomDude

I'm starting to think I maybe more emotionally affected by breaking up with my ex-GF then I cared to admit. In the end, I'm still in rebound mode maybe, guess because ex-wife had something ex-GF didn't have. I dunno...


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## 2ntnuf

yeah, but I think it's abuse that is that "thing". That's what's disturbing.


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## RandomDude

It's the chemistry actually, I wrote about it on the men's clubhouse.


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## Healer

I was lucky in that I never had those thoughts. But then I was cheated on and that made that decision for me really, really easy.

I still see the regret in her eyes and she expresses it often. I feel nothing towards her - even the hatred is gone. I just want to get along as we have to co-parent. 

I don't envy your ambivalence.


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## RandomDude

Truth is out, at least with my little girl... I can't trust she'll keep her mouth shut.

*Braces for impact soon*


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