# I'm giving up the fight



## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

I've been told that getting visitations with my dd, who is 14.5 and wants nothing to do with me is a waste of time. We were always very close, but after the split in July, and after 3 shared custody visits she has decided to live with dad, her brother and brothers gf full time. I contacted the court system and they said it would take 6 months to get the order, and at her age they will not enforce it or maintain it. So this means my ex wins.

He vowed that he would see that I would end up alone and bitter if I left him. And he has ensured that. The whole time she was with me he would text her that her dog missed her, that he was depressed without her, that he would allow her to have no curfews, and let her get piercings, use foul language and do what she wants. I text her that I love her all the time and invite her to do things but get no response. She did text me a few weeks ago asking me to mail her money. I bought a condo 8 blocks from the family home. I'm always asking her to visit for an afternoon, go out shopping, and I do the same with my son. I just get no replies. 

I left due to a 3 year PA on h's part and a lot of emotional abuse. My son, 23 is in his dad's camp. He does not believe his dad had an affair ( I have the aids and syphilis tests and the marriage proposals from my ex to his OW). But of course I won't involve the kids by showing them these things.

I don't see them anyway, other than a gift grab for 10 minutes by my son on Christmas Day, he came alone and said his sister wasn't interested in coming. I also got a nice gift for son's gf and received no acknowledgement. Son got me a cheap box of chocolates after I loaned him $500 before Christmas. 

I was always good to my kids. Always worked hard to make things special for them. Always told them I loved them. Was the parent that taught them to swim, ride a bike, helped son learn to drive because his dad was too chicken to go out with him. Helped son to get his first job at McD's by filling out the application with him. Paid son's tuition to college every year so far. 

Where to go from here in life? Is there any point to going on? 

I can't return, my nerves cannot take another round of him pitting our son against me. This was happening all the time, I would do something my ex disapproved of and he would run and tell our son who would rage at me. No way for even a dog to live. Also name calling and religious rants about what a bad Christian I was if I so much as alluded to the A. 
Thanks for reading, I won't post on this again. I am just really, really depressed tonight.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

I have been reading your threads and the only way to go is to just cut them off. In time they realize what there dad really is but it will take time. I hope everything eventually works out in the end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Convection (Apr 20, 2013)

Indie, I have read your threads. I'm very sorry it has come to this. 

I won't debate you on the rightness of throwing the evidence of your H's affair in your children's faces; that's your call. By the same token, you under no obligation to let either of them mistreat you. Still paying for your son's college? I'd stop that sh!t right now. What has he done to show he's grateful? In fact, for your own sake, I recommend you detach a bit. That sounds horrible, for a mother to detach from her children, but distancing yourself from their deliberate mistreatment might be the only thing that keeps you sane. Just because you love them doesn't make their abuse any less damaging. I go through this with my wife and step-son, when he pulls his crap. I think she's finally getting it, and is making things easier when she steps away.

We, as parents, do the best we can. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. Your H may feel giddy with this but ultimately, I suspect HE'LL be the one left broken and alone. He's planted the seeds of madness in these kids; odds are, that madness will turn on him at some point - and unlike you, he'll having nothing to fall back on other than bitter recrimination. Indie, if you can look at yourself in the mirror and honestly say, "I was a good mother and gave it my all," ... well, that's all any of us can do in life. Your kids will have to find their own way. Maybe they will see the light and maybe they won't. You can't hinge the remainder of your life on it. I know it hurts, and probably always will. But it doesn't have to define your life.



indiecat said:


> Where to go from here in life? Is there any point to going on?


All through your post history, you write a lot about what you have done and endured for your family. What have you done for you? If the answer is "nothing," then it is overdue. Change of scenery, change of location, change of social circles. You get out, you find something you can enjoy. If dark clouds linger, see the doc. See a therapist. Socialize, and build friendships. Don't face it alone.

Hoping for the best for you.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks so much, I know my story is depressing to read. I apologize to anyone who reads it. I should have left years earlier, but that is history and I can't change that. My daughter put on FB last night 'I hate you mom, you ruined everything'. I texted her, the only way to reach her. She said 'a mother is not supposed to leave her family OR her husband'. I reminded her that four out of five of her friends families split, and the mother got her own place in two of those cases. She said she only cares about OUR family. I also reminded her that she liked my place the first 3 visits and we had plans to redecorate before she abruptly decided not to visit me anymore. Her on her last visit were 'you've got a big surprise coming on Wednesday'. Surprise being she wasn't planning on coming back because her brother said at 14 she could decide. 

She also said that her dad 'did everything to make my life easier'. I am sure he is spinning this story to her. I told her that I loved her and her brother and both were welcome to stay with me. And as far as her father, that is an adult matter between us. She said 'it's not between you, you are immature to think that'. I repeated that it is an adult matter. 

I find it hard to enjoy socializing and enjoying myself when I know she is caught up with my ex. He sleeps holding my nightgown so that the kids can see him do that. He cries about me in front of them. He was a controlling, verbally and emotionally abusive cheater. My counselor says that this is a way an abuser continues to punish his partner for leaving. He did the same with OW, I read his emails to her, he would try to do everything to suck up to her and her boys, then lie to her about things and threaten suicide if she distanced herself. 

I know I have to detach, but as a mother how do you do that? 

I have tried to get out a bit, see people. My doctor has warned me to go back is not going to help any of us. 

I attend the woman's shelter for group, they say shame is the number one issue that keeps women stuck in a down cycle. So I am trying to work on this. I talked to my dd's VP of her school yesterday and asked if he could refer her to the social worker. He said he can't force her but will gently suggest it. I also spoke to her guidance counselor to see how they could help her. She failed 2 out of 4 of her first terms course in 9th grade. She has learning disabilities and works at about a grade 5 level. He said a new school is opening next year that is hands on and geared to the learning disabled. 

H. continues to email, which I ignore, telling me how I ruining the kids lives and need to come home 'to save their souls' etc. I gave a friend this email address, so she reads them for me and only tells me if there is something pertinent to the kids in his rants. 

Anyway, sorry for being such a downer.


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Indie, I don't know your story but wow, it broke my heart. At first I was skeptical that it was the whole story but I am coming around. My kids are doing the same thing...to their father. The first part of your story was similar in that I asked for a divorce due to my discovery of many years of cheating with many partners. I was the rock of the family, not the fun parent...the serious, teaching, solid, stable parent. Unlike your ex, my stbx did not use the children as a tool. We sat down and spoke with them and he told them that he had broken my trust. DD, who was 15, got it and DS followed soon after. I could not have taken being turned on by my children at this point in my life, which was why I insisted they be told the bare facts. It was selfish but survival. I still think it was the right thing to do.

You have gotten some good advice here. What I would say in your situation is:
1) keep the door open, keep leaving the texts and emails. Don't rise to their bait.
2)Close the wallet now! My stbx tries to buy the love of the kids, and they knowingly, gleefully manipulate him. They see exactly what he is doing.
3) Get outside, exercise. You seriously need the endorphin rush.
4) start socializing. Try meetup.com , go out, interact with others.
5) IC for you. You have no reason to feel shame. None! Believe it or not, you are modeling the appropriate behavior for your children by refusing to accept your ex's abuse and disrespect. Hold your head up high, square your shoulders and know that you are doing the right thing. Own it.
6) Do not apologize for destroying the family unit. You did not. He did.

It is painful now, but I am convinced your children will come around. I think it is good that you spoke with the school counselor. If you can find a way to get DD into IC/FC, then do it. Maybe her father will see her failing grades and start to worry? Was she a high achiever before?

Focus on yourself. Try to find things that make you happy. You are due. Hell, I'd even suggest getting a dog! Your DD may be into that, plus a pet would get you out and about. 

Best of luck.


eta: Read up on narcisstic personalities. My stbx had tendencies in this direction, but was not a full blown narcissist. Your ex def sounds in the category.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think you should show your kids your evidence. This is an important life lesson for them, that you don't know what's going on behind closed doors and thus should butt out of the personal lives of other adults. And stop doing anything for them, they are old enough to learn that there are consequences to treating people like crap; just because you're their mother doesn't mean they get to treat you poorly. I know because my worthless sister was like that and my dad cut her off. He had to. Seriously, a 14 year old telling you YOU'RE immature? That's rich. Either show her your evidence or stop engaging her, and stop giving anybody any money. Tell them to get everything from their father.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

Dd has a learning disability. She was attending IC but the therapist told her it was her choice whether to return and she chose not to. 

Thanks everyone, I feel bad I didn't leave him earlier, but trying to work at it as long as I did does not make me a bad mother I keep telling myself. 

I've been told he's Narcisstic and or Sociopathic. He'll find that the kids will run out of sympathy for his victim role eventually. I know I did. 

My dd said that I am missing out on everything and I agree. I am missing all her high school years and being able to help her, because of that 'person'.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I dunno. There's not much you can do about any of this. If you enjoyed the parenting and you can't access your own kids, find some other kids that will need and appreciate you. i.e. mentoring or Big Sister program, or volunteering for a group home/orphanage (some still exist) tutoring program, teen community center, etc. 

I think you need to fill that gap, also to cement your reality of your competence in parenting, as it's being undermined, it seems inappropriately. Do what you do best. Maybe your own kids if you don't participate in defending yourself or begging, will realize that if they ask Mum to go away, she really will. I don't know about teenagers, but with toddlers when Mum starts to walk away when they're having a tantrum, and doesn't look back, the kid generally pulls itself together really quickly and comes running after. And learns that Mum isn't going to come begging on her hands and knees for acceptance. It's something no mother should ever do, it teaches kids to up the ante. And look at what the ante has been set at by Dad. If you're not engaging in this ridiculous tug of war, he'll have nobody to compare himself to, and will probably become tired of being a victim with no perpetrator to point at. 

If you spend your life chasing after your kids, you won't have anything to offer them if and when they do come back.

Don't worry too much about it. They will learn by experience. Sure they'll suffer a bit, but that's how people grow. They are old enough to learn from their own choices. It doesn't seem like they are in physical harm's way. The more you chase them down the more it will be difficult for them to ever swallow their pride. If you just say, look, I am hearing that you don't want me to be involved in your life. I respect that. Let me know if you change your mind, and we will never discuss it again, we will move on. And when you do spend time with them, do not rehash right wrong whatever. Move on with what directly involves them and you. Set the bar at not discussing your personal relationship with their father with them. Tell them they now have their own relationship with their dad to manage, and that doesn't involve you, they are adults or nearly so and your relationship was a married one, they are his kids.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Indie, I'm sorry you are going through this.

My STBXW has two teenaged boys. I warned her years ago that when the teen years arrived there would be trouble due to the parenting and custody arrangement she had with hubby #2.

Sure enough one of the kids starts saying to STBXW that he's not happy, he doesn't feel like he has a home, and he only feels good when he's going place and doing things. 

In other words, he prefers being with Dad because Dad is fun and spends money. The kid could manipulate and control Dad; Dad indulged the kids and bought them everything.

Whereas when the kids were with us on days she had custody, neither I or STBXW noticed any behavioral problems in either kid. None.

My point? MC's told us that children are a lot smarter than some people think. They know how to exploit parent's guilt and sadness over divorce. Some children can get the parents in a competition for the kids affections.

The kid ended up getting the Dad to petition the court for full custody, which he was granted due to the child's "mental issues". Oh ya, STBXW just loved that rejection. Guess who's fault it was? Mine because I know how to say the word "NO."

After moving in full time with dad, the kid did call my STBXW every once in a while, when he wanted her to buy him something. Otherwise she was nothing to him. When the kid stopped talking to her altogether I suggested she stop attempting contact since every time he blows her off its another rejection. Care to guess how that went over?

Indie, I didn't read anything you wrote that justifies the mistreatment you are receiving. I suggest you express your concerns and love to them and let them know you are available and how they can reach you, then just wait. I don't know if that's smart advice but that's all I can suggest.


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

It is true, I send the "I love you and miss you messages' and hear nothing back. Or the 'I'd like us to get together for lunch or dinner, or you could come to my place' and again hear nothing. Son came to me when he wanted to borrow money, he was nice enough then. But no word since. 

My dad died on the 21st and my ex was not invited to the funeral, the kids were, he was not. I got a text from my dd today saying that "it's clear I don't want her dad around me, and wouldn't even allow her dad to pay my dad respects and come to the funeral, and that is f'd up". Meanwhile my ex went to the hospital two months ago and badmouthed me to my dad when my dad was in palliative care this fall. So NO my mom (and dad) didn't want him at the funeral. Neither did my sibling. But now, somehow I'm being blamed for not allowing my ex to the funeral when it was a consequence of his own behavior. I am sick of taking the high road and saying no comment. 

I did text back to dd that her dad had come to visit her grandpa at the hospital, and he did say some hurtful and inappropriate things to grandpa and THAT was why only she and her brother were invited to the funeral. I won't comment on my ex's behavior again to my kids, and I am careful not to. But why should I take the blame for his behaviour all the time? MY dad did not want him at his own funeral and we had to respect that wish. 

My husband is a cult leader it seems and the kids and son's gf are in the cult. It's so damn sad. Everything is now my fault. For giving this liar and cheat too many chances to change his ways.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

indiecat said:


> Everything is now my fault.


Learn from me: somebody has to be blamed when they won't own their own POS behavior.

Oh ya, a lot of our MC time was consumed talking about parenting, kids, modeling, boundaries, blended families, etc. All good stuff. 

My _next_ wife will appreciate my relationship skills!


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## indiecat (Sep 24, 2012)

True, someone else has to be blamed. I'll remember that. 

We did a lot of MC as well. And Christian weekend marriage seminars, 8 weekends.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

indiecat said:


> We did a lot of MC as well. And Christian weekend marriage seminars, 8 weekends.


Sounds familiar. We did that stuff too. MC, church, classes, bible study, etc. Mine accepted Jesus Christ as her personal savior. She pulled the plug for good a few months later. 

I wonder how she explains that to people. Praise God, I found Jesus. Let's get divorced! :scratchhead:


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