# Months after Dday and completely lost



## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

*Warning*: wall of text/stream of consciousness ahead. Also, I'm new here so apologies if I don't use acronyms correctly. 

February of last year, the (eventual) OM began working with my wife (married 2 years at the time. We're in our mid/late 20s, no kids). At their job, their group of friends hang out a lot- going out to bars, hanging out at eachother's places, etc. Basically, They developed a friendship that at the time I deemed completely harmless because of the above and because to be honest, the guy was a bit of a loser. It's not that I was actively looking for signs of cheating then, but I've always been acutely aware of the fact that people generally do ****ty things and I don't want to get hurt. So subconsciously I told myself I didn't need to worry about this guy.

Over the next several months, her behaviors changed pretty significantly, and I picked up on them fairly quickly. In the past, she'd leave her phone laying around and even ask me to check her texts, set her alarm, etc. Now, she was always keeping her phone by her, never letting it go, and keeping it on silent. Always texting. I was naive, and this should have been the only warning I needed- I didn't think anything of it. 

Starting in May or June, they began to hang out alone vs. with friends. I was not okay with this and I told her so. She told me I was being paranoid and that I was letting my anxiety problems get the best of me. It took some convincing on her part, but idiotically, I let this proceed.

In August or September, he moved away out of the country to go to school. I was happy about this, but the texting continued. Facebook/text/IM. All the time. 24/7. I told her it bothered me, and she didn't stop. My suspicions got the best of me, and I checked her texts and Facebook. There was definitely some flirting going on, but nothing overtly sexual. I decided to not say anything and see where this went. I didn't want to reveal the fact that I was snooping if I didn't have hard evidence.

On November 10th, we had come home from a friend's engagement party. We had been drinking a bit, and she told me she was tired and was going to go lay in bed and browse the internet. I found this strange, as our routine is usually she passes out on the couch with me while I watch a little TV or go on my computer. I loged on to her facebook, and lo and behold, I found what was for her the most graphic conversation I've ever seen. Really raunchy stuff. They were video chatting on facebook and typing since I was downstairs. 

I don't know how to accurately describe what I felt at that point. Shaking uncontrollably. Heart beating so fast that I thought I'd have a heart attack. Seeing stars. I basically had a panic attack, probably. I came to my senses and took a bunch of screen shots of their conversations. Without even thinking about it, I went upstairs and slammed the bedroom door open. She had heard me coming so had shut off her computer. She was naked. She said "I've been waiting for you to come up" and I literally almost threw up. Couldn't even respond. I went back downstairs, drank about half a bottle of wine, and then went back up and told her that I knew what she was doing. At first she pretended like I was talking nonsense, but she realized I knew and freaked out.

She had a meltdown. Grabbed on to me while she was still naked, which disgusted me for some reason. I remember that part vividly to this day. Crying hysterically. Got the slow trickle of information. First it was chatting only, then it was a kiss, then it was hooking up, then it was sex. The trickle went on for days/weeks. Eventually I found out they had been having an EA/PA for 8 months. They'd had sex dozens of times. First with, then without protection. It makes me sick to think about still. 

I don't know why I didn't leave the night I found out. Most days I think I should have. I guess part of it is that we had just closed on a house a month before. The other (bigger) part was and is that I still care about her. I do love her still, but it's different love now, and it's changed forever. I have zero trust for her, and most days I think she's still talking to him or someone else behind my back. She unfriended the OM on facebook and swears they don't talk, but she's a smart person and if she wanted to hide it, she could. The point is that I have no way of knowing.

Sometimes I want to leave, but I'm terrified of being alone. Sometimes I want to stay, but I'm completely miserable. I get triggers constantly. We've had sex, but all I think about when we do it is him and her together. I almost never initiate it. I feel like a zombie, like I'm just floating through life. I stay at work late because I don't want to come home. when I do get home, all I want to do is drink a couple beers and/or pass out. I start fights over this all of the time. She freaks out at me even mentioning leaving. She knows what she did destroyed us and is genuinely remorseful. But I don't know if I can forgive her. 

I don't know what the point of typing all of this was. I need advice. I need help. The best thing for me would probably be for her to leave me. It's just not fair that she did all of this and now I'm the one stuck making a life altering decision. Because of her being unable to control herself. We've tried counseling, but I don't feel like it helped- partly because I'm not sure I want to R. We took a trip. We've bought some furniture. It all just feels meaningless and worthless. Most days I think about getting back at her by cheating on her, but I don't think I could do it, even after all of this.

Thanks for reading. The forums have been helpful (if not one big trigger).


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Blunt advice coming your way. Married for 2 years, no kids yet and you found out she had a 8 month affair and you didn't leave. Add 20 years to those 2 years and a passel of kids. How would you like to be that guy?

Leave her while you have no "strings" attached.

Edit: You're in your late 20's and that means you're nearing your prime. Don't waste those years away trying to reconcile. You have the potential to find a better wife. You're going to miss out on so much fun if you give into your fear of being alone and stay with her. If you think leaving her is going to be hard now, with a kid or two its going to be that much harder. Think about it.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> If you think leaving her is going to be hard now, with a kid or two its going to be that much harder. Think about it.


That's the thing I told her last night. All I wanted was a house and a family and a normal life, but now I don't know how I'm supposed to have kids with her. I literally cannot envision that in my future now. 

I don't know how I'm going to leave. I just don't. I honestly feel like I'm doomed to be unhappy in this forever.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

Btw how did you log onto her facebook account while she was actively chatting with this guy?


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

You might want to try getting some counseling for yourself. And like Bjorn said, you think it's hard to leave now, wait until you have a kid with her. At the very least it sounds like you need to get away from her so you stop triggering so much. Maybe get your own place for a bit. Is this your first relationship or something? Why do you think you're so co-dependant (just trying to get some background)?

You sound around my age, maybe slightly younger which is still pretty young. You can always find someone who is a better fit for you and won't betray you. You were only married 2 years before she had an 8 month affair??? That's not a good sign.

I'm not going to tell you whether to stay or go, that's entirely up to you. But it doesn't sound like you or your wife are really dealing with what she did. Did she suffer any consequences for what she did?


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

BjornFree said:


> Btw how did you log onto her facebook account while she was actively chatting with this guy?


You can be logged into facebook from two (or more, I'm assuming) computers at once. Think about phone vs. desktop. That's why there's an option in your privacy settings to sign out of all other active sessions (Same with gmail).


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Jasel said:


> You might want to try getting some counseling for yourself. And like Bjorn said, you think it's hard to leave now, wait until you have a kid with her. At the very least it sounds like you need to get away from her so you stop triggering so much. Maybe get your own place for a bit. Is this your first relationship or something? Why do you think you're so co-dependant (just trying to get some background)?
> 
> You sound around my age, maybe slightly younger which is still pretty young. You can always find someone who is a better fit for you and won't betray you. You've only been married 2 years and she's already had an 8 month affair???
> 
> I'm not going to tell you whether to stay or go, that's entirely up to you. But it doesn't sound like you or your wife are really dealing with what she did. Did she suffer any consequences for what she did?


Just to clarify, we've been married for 3 years, now. We've been together since we were 19, so yes, basically my first real relationship. I just hate being alone, and to be honest, with her, I thought I had way way overachieved in the spouse dept. I guess I'm worried I'll never find someone I'm into as much as I was into her.

I'd say she's suffered consequences. She knows how much she's hurt me and is constantly upset about it.

Honestly I would probably leave and get a place for a bit to cool off if I didn't have this mortgage payment. I don't think I can afford a place in this city. It's crazy expensive here. I'm looking into switching jobs so I can get a better salary. I'm in a field that is notorious for ****ty pay until you're higher up.

Edit: I'm 27, just to clear that up.


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> You can be logged into facebook from two (or more, I'm assuming) computers at once. Think about phone vs. desktop. That's why there's an option in your privacy settings to sign out of all other active sessions (Same with gmail).


I see. 

I'm going to have so much fun messing with my dear wife with this info.



schiller45 said:


> Just to clarify, we've been married for 3 years, now. We've been together since we were 19, so yes, basically my first real relationship. I just hate being alone, and to be honest, with her, I thought I had way way overachieved in the spouse dept. I guess I'm worried I'll never find someone I'm into as much as I was into her.
> 
> I'd say she's suffered consequences. She knows how much she's hurt me and is constantly upset about it.
> 
> ...


Its going to be difficult getting out of this marriage, this being your first relationship. But you will be infinitely better off if you leave her now. 

People reconcile when they have built a life together and that often means when they have kids. While its true that what you're going through is devastating, kids are going to complicate the issue by a whole new degree. Think of this as a blessing in disguise. And there are millions of women in this world, chances are that you'll find a lot of women who are better, in your very own neighborhood.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> I'd say she's suffered consequences. She knows how much she's hurt me and is constantly upset about it.
> 
> 
> Edit: I'm 27, just to clear that up.


Those aren't consequences. That's pretty much getting away with it. Ahh okay 28 here.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Move on before its to late. Get get out of this now and talk to a lawyer. Don't bother with MC its a waste of time with a 2 year M and a year of cheating. She is a very damaged person this should still be the newlywed phase not the looking around to see who you can sleep with.. It will hurt initially but don't drag it out. You will be fine the hurt with her will never get better. GO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

Take all the time you need. Even though it was months ago, it's going to be fresh for a very long time. 

The good news is you guys have no kids. DO NOT HAVE KIDS! "Wrap" it up, watch her take the pill every day, do whatever it takes to NOT HAVE KIDS! It will make things a million times harder, and worse! (trust me on this, because it's what I'm going through).

This sucks, and I truly hate for you to be going through this, but ultimately you have to decide what you can live with. Can you live with leaving? Can you live with staying, trying again, and ALL the crap that goes along with that (trust issues, fear, anger, etc.)

There's no rule that says you have to decide TODAY! Have you exposed the affair to your family or friends? Exposure is definitely a key step. It's easy for them to hide things from you and fool you, but when OTHER eyes are watching, not so much. Counseling may also help. Even if not MC, IC for you. It's nice to have someone to talk to that can look at the situation objectively. 

Please don't just give in. You're young and kid free. If you have no other children, no criminal record, no addiction issues, and a JOB... honey, you are hot property! Don't be scared to start again.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Those aren't consequences. That's pretty much getting away with it. Ahh okay 28 here.


What kind of consequences are you referring to then? I mean she's talking about how she can't live without me and is acting like she'll hurt herself if I leave or something. I don't know that she actually would, but she says those things. That, to me, is a person that is going through some serious **** as a result of this.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> What kind of consequences are you referring to then? I mean she's talking about how she can't live without me and is acting like she'll hurt herself if I leave or something. I don't know that she actually would, but she says those things. That, to me, is a person that is going through some serious **** as a result of this.


Ohhh, yeah, they do that. 

You are going to see some Oscar worthy performances for a while yet.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> Ohhh, yeah, they do that.
> 
> You are going to see some Oscar worthy performances for a while yet.


No kidding. It's been brutal. And then at the end of our fights, *i* feel like the bad guy because I made her upset. It's really ridiculous when I think about it. People have told me this before, but I'm just way too nice of a person, and I will be miserable so others can be happy. I've always been this way and I don't know why. I guess I want people to like me. 

To answer your other question, only a few of my friends know, and none of my close ones. I don't want my close ones to hat her if we do somehow someday R. My family does not know. Hers does.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> What kind of consequences are you referring to then? I mean she's talking about how she can't live without me and is acting like she'll hurt herself if I leave or something. I don't know that she actually would, but she says those things. That, to me, is a person that is going through some serious **** as a result of this.


She's manipulating you.

Consequences would be exposure to her family, yours, and friends, open transparency as far as all email, cell phone, passwords are concerned. No hanging out with friends unless it's someone you feel comfortable with her hanging out with or you're with her. She should also have to find a new job. Her working with that guy is an unacceptable situation. And she should be in counseling herself to find out why she did something like that. You also might want to consider a polygraph. It doesnt sound like either of you have taken any steps to ensure that this doesn't happen again. And she has no incentive to make sure it doesn't happen again because she's faced no consequences from you for her actions.

If she's willing to do all of that, then she might be TRULY remorseful. But her shedding some crocodile tears and threatening to harm herself is nothing but manipulative bull****. Try to place some of those consequences that I just listed on her and see how willing she is. If she's not, then she's most likely not as remorseful as she has you thinking she is.

And I cannot stress this enough DO NOT HAVE KIDS WITH HER AND KEEP YOUR CONDOMS HIDDEN SO SHE DOES NOT POKE HOLES IN THEM. She sounds like the type who will do what she can to manipulate/trap you into staying.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Remember the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Likely this is not her first afair. You are making it easy and rugsweeping for her, she will say anything just to put all this behind her then it will happen again. Stop acting so sad around her boot her out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BjornFree (Aug 16, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> What kind of consequences are you referring to then? I mean she's talking about how she can't live without me and is acting like she'll hurt herself if I leave or something. I don't know that she actually would, but she says those things. That, to me, is a person that is going through some serious **** as a result of this.


She's manipulating you into staying. Those displays of remorse aren't real. Remorseful people don't threaten to harm themselves. They start improving by doing whatever it takes to heal your hurt and the relationship.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Married 2 years and she is in a LTPA... bail out now before you have children and are stuck like the rest of us.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Oh I also suggest you read this ASAP. Completely. It's not a hard read.

http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> What kind of consequences are you referring to then? I mean she's talking about how she can't live without me and is acting like she'll hurt herself if I leave or something. I don't know that she actually would, but she says those things. That, to me, is a person that is going through some serious **** as a result of this.


All that post proves no remorse, she's manipulating you, if she was remorseful and fully aware she would tell you she understands if you want to leave. 

When a betrayer is fully aware of what they did they accept the consequences including breaking up. I'm not saying they don't want to work it out, on the contrary they should be jumping through hoops for forgiveness. But, they understand the damage they caused you.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Serious she is playing you with tears. Put her out! I bet she sleeps good at night in her bed and may have a secret burner phone by now to contact him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Guys, just to clear something up: She has given me access to all of her emails, texts, etc. She said she'd give up the internet if I wanted her to. Furthermore, her family knows, her friends know. It's not been a good 7 months for her. Also the guy now lives out of the country.

All of that said, my original point was that I have no way of knowing for sure if she's still doing something because she could have just gotten smarter about hiding it. 

I just want to table the "she's the worst person on earth" stuff, because while I genuinely sometimes hate her for what she's done, she doesn't appear to be as bad as some of the other stories I've read on here.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Consequences mean they will admit what they did, give up on all privacey and acknolage you don't trust them, so no more going out. It means they will do anything you ask and more, they will say yes to counseling, read all books, give up toxic friends. Will be transparent and patient. Will allow you to ask and ask and reask. 
Will be sensitive to your needs. They will not ask or manipulate they will not demand privacy and they will take 100% responsibility for their cheating ways.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> Sometimes I want to leave, but I'm terrified of being alone. Sometimes I want to stay, but I'm completely miserable.


Leave. You are young and will not be alone forever, I promise you that. I just can't imagine how she is worth it.

EDIT: She is not the worst person on the earth. I do truly believe it is a character flaw and what is lost is trust. You have been married a short while, you are young and you don't have children.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I feel it's way too early in your marriage for cheating. Does she have a history of cheating on boyfriends or with you prior to the marriage? 

Is she a flirty type of woman? Does she crave attention to feel good about herself?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

You really are a self described "Nice Guy". 

Read these before you decide to R. There's no need to rush into a decision. 

No More Mr Nice Guy

The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011: Athol Kay

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

What if you separate for a while? You can clear your head. It's always good to be alone which is why going dark after the DDay is helpful. 

You will know what you want to do, if you realize you can't live without her you can comeback. If you feel like you could breath and that a heavy burden has lifted then separate.

Did you guys have counseling? How or what have you done to work on your marriage?


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

southernsurf said:


> Remember the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Likely this is not her first afair. You are making it easy and rugsweeping for her, she will say anything just to put all this behind her then it will happen again. Stop acting so sad around her boot her out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Welp, thinking about this not being her first affair is just great. Thanks for that 



Jasel said:


> Oh I also suggest you read this ASAP. Completely. It's not a hard read.
> 
> http://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


Reading now. Thanks man. This hits home and I'm only on chapter 1.



mablenc said:


> I feel it's way too early in your marriage for cheating. Does she have a history of cheating on boyfriends or with you prior to the marriage?
> 
> Is she a flirty type of woman? Does she crave attention to feel good about herself?


She's not flirty but she does like attention. To my knowledge, this is the only time she's cheated on me or anyone.

While I guess I am what you guys call a "nice guy," which is a problem, don't get me wrong. I've had some outbursts about this that I'm not proud of. I've made her cry. I've hurt her on purpose (never physically, of course). I think I have the capacity to go off, and it's probably due to trying to be a "nice guy"


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> Guys, just to clear something up: She has given me access to all of her emails, texts, etc. She said she'd give up the internet if I wanted her to. Furthermore, her family knows, her friends know. It's not been a good 7 months for her. Also the guy now lives out of the country.
> 
> All of that said, my original point was that I have no way of knowing for sure if she's still doing something because she could have just gotten smarter about hiding it.
> 
> I just want to table the "she's the worst person on earth" stuff, because while I genuinely sometimes hate her for what she's done, she doesn't appear to be as bad as some of the other stories I've read on here.


As a neutral 3rd party I read your comments and all hear is you covering up and making excuses for her. First thing they do is get a burner phone, it can be hard to find.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

mablenc said:


> What if you separate for a while? You can clear your head. It's always good to be alone which is why going dark after the DDay is helpful.
> 
> You will know what you want to do, if you realize you can't live without her you can comeback. If you feel like you could breath and that a heavy burden has lifted then separate.
> 
> Did you guys have counseling? How or what have you done to work on your marriage?


I'm really thinking about separating. Really am. 

We've had counseling, but I don't thing it was worth my time. The whole pretense was "we're going here to fix this" when I'm not sure I want to fix it. We're supposed to be acting more like husband and wife again (holding hands, kissing, saying "i love you") but none of that feels right.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

mablenc said:


> *I feel it's way too early in your marriage for cheating.* Does she have a history of cheating on boyfriends or with you prior to the marriage?
> 
> Is she a flirty type of woman? Does she crave attention to feel good about herself?



PLEASE take note of this. I know it's not the same, but my stbx/wh was trolling porn and sex chat/dating sites 2 WEEKS into our marriage (and denying it by saying someone hacked into our computer and put it there - WTF?). Instead of my stupid a$$ cutting loose right then, I stayed, hoping it would be better, buying the tearful, begging-on-hands-and-knees performances, only to have the lies and betrayals escalate over the years into eventual affairs (which he still denies ever went PA, but the proof I have seen suggests otherwise).

Like I said in my earlier post, take your time. None of this is easy, but you are young and childless. Nothing is really tying you to this situation. 

AND DON'T GET HER PREGNANT, LOL!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Have you tried working out/exercising??? I've heard it can help BS (betrayed spouse) feel much better.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

I'm curious, what made you think the OM is a loser?


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> PLEASE take note of this. I know it's not the same, but my stbx/wh was trolling porn and sex chat/dating sites 2 WEEKS into our marriage (and denying it by saying someone hacked into our computer and put it there - WTF?). Instead of my stupid a$$ cutting loose right then, I stayed, hoping it would be better, buying the tearful, begging-on-hands-and-knees performances, only to have the lies and betrayals escalate over the years into eventual affairs (which he still denies ever went PA, but the proof I have seen suggests otherwise).
> 
> Like I said in my earlier post, take your time. None of this is easy, but you are young and childless. Nothing is really tying you to this situation.
> 
> AND DON'T GET HER PREGNANT, LOL!


Ha believe me, I'll do anything to make sure she doesn't get pregnant. She's on the patch, which is good, and I don't think she really wants kids yet anyway. Her job is physically intense and so it'd be hard for her to work if she's pregnant. And while she ****ing sucks and is a terrible person, yada yada yada, I don't think she'd try to have a kid to keep me around. That's ****ed, even for her..



Jasel said:


> Have you tried working out/exercising??? I've heard it can help BS (betrayed spouse) feel much better.


I run about 5 times a week. It helps, but often times when I think about this stuff the most is during idle time (driving, working out, commuting to work, etc). If I'm kept busy with work, or reading or whatever, I don't think about it as much.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> I'm curious, what made you think the OM is a loser?


He's younger. 24, I think. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but he's been arrested for being an ass to a cop, relies on his rich parents for everything, went to med school in another country because he couldn't get into one here. things like that. 

Not to sound like a pompous ass, but compared to me (fast riser in a major company, goal oriented, wants a family, responsible, etc), he's a loser. I think that's part of why she was attracted to him. Because he's "fun"


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> Ha believe me, I'll do anything to make sure she doesn't get pregnant. She's on the patch, which is good, and I don't think she really wants kids yet anyway. Her job is physically intense and so it'd be hard for her to work if she's pregnant. And while she ****ing sucks and is a terrible person, yada yada yada, I don't think she'd try to have a kid to keep me around. That's ****ed, even for her...


Yeah, the thing is, when it comes to cheaters, expect the least and the worst. 

If she's threatening to harm herself if you leave, what makes you think that won't get desperate enough to try and trap you with a baby? She's already shown she is selfish. She's already shown she cannot be trusted. The woman you thought you knew is gone. 

Expect anything and be prepared for everything.


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> I'm really thinking about separating. Really am.
> 
> We've had counseling, but I don't thing it was worth my time. The whole pretense was "we're going here to fix this" when I'm not sure I want to fix it. We're supposed to be acting more like husband and wife again (holding hands, kissing, saying "i love you") but none of that feels right.


Work on yourself first. You need to put you first like she did. Get some hobbies, do to the gym. Start feeling better about yourself.

You have been trying to make it work. That is the problem.

Deal from strenght not because you feel you can not find better.


Given what she has done, you can find better.

Keep in mind that if you did not catch her she would still be cheating.

You are young. She will also go through mid life soon too.

Cheating so soon in marriage is never a good sign. Be honest in your discussions with her. She needs to know the why to have any chance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> He's younger. 24, I think. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but he's been arrested for being an ass to a cop, relies on his rich parents for everything, went to med school in another country because he couldn't get into one here. things like that.
> 
> Not to sound like a pompous ass, but compared to me (fast riser in a major company, goal oriented, wants a family, responsible, etc), he's a loser. I think that's part of why she was attracted to him. *Because he's "fun"*


Yep, he's the bad boy you're not. 

This happen too quickly. 

You really need to read the MMSLP.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> He's younger. 24, I think. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but he's been arrested for being an ass to a cop, relies on his rich parents for everything, went to med school in another country because he couldn't get into one here. things like that.
> 
> Not to sound like a pompous ass, but compared to me (fast riser in a major company, goal oriented, wants a family, responsible, etc), he's a loser. I think that's part of why she was attracted to him. Because he's "fun"


Well, if you think about it he is working in the same place as your wife, banged her for eight months and is studying in another country, a doctor? Doesn't sound like a loser. Not saying this to praise him but you clearly made a mistake when you underestimated him.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so accepting and forgiving as you? I hope you both have been tested for STD's.

The fact that you admit that you are a nice guy makes me believe that your wife thought she could screw this guy without protection multiple times and if she got caught she knew that you would forgive her anyway so she had nothing to lose.

Screwing another man countless times without protection in the second year of your marriage? You are in deep deep denial. She is in major damage control. I hate to be blunt but you are a very foolish man to waste your life with her. Do you honestly think she has any respect for you at all now? For God's sakes man if you do not respect yourself then who will? Stop being a fool.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> Well, if you think about it he is working in the same place as your wife, banged her for eight months and is studying in another country, a doctor? Doesn't sound like a loser. Not saying this to praise him but you clearly made a mistake when you underestimated him.


You're not wrong.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> He's younger. 24, I think. Which in and of itself isn't bad, but he's been arrested for being an ass to a cop, relies on his rich parents for everything, went to med school in another country because he couldn't get into one here. things like that.
> 
> Not to sound like a pompous ass, but compared to me (fast riser in a major company, goal oriented, wants a family, responsible, etc), he's a loser. I think that's part of why she was attracted to him. Because he's "fun"


this is good strong talk, not pompous at all, its called alpha thinking - keep it up. All everyone is trying to help you with is for you get in 100% control of everything thats happening from this point forward, you have to call all the shots. One way to shake up her world after what she did (lets be honest, she took off her pants willingly and screw him) is put her out. That’s consequences! Then you can start discussions about the future. Fact is your head will clear with not seeing her every minute and you may decide you don’t need all her drama and end it. Or you also may see the other side and want to try again. Don’t let her soften you.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

bryanp said:


> Screwing another man countless times without protection in the second year of your marriage? You are in deep deep denial. She is in major damage control. I hate to be blunt but you are a very foolish man to waste your life with her. Do you honestly think she has any respect for you at all now? For God's sakes man if you do not respect yourself then who will? Stop being a fool.


I have a understanding they have been together eight years.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> I have a understanding they have been together eight years.


Married 3 years this year (2 years when it started), but we've been together since college for a total of 8 years. Sorry if that was confusing.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

are you worried if you separate she might continue seeing other guys?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> I don't think I can afford a place in this city. It's crazy expensive here. I'm looking into switching jobs so I can get a better salary. I'm in a field that is notorious for ****ty pay until you're higher up.





schiller45 said:


> Not to sound like a pompous ass, but compared to me (fast riser in a major company, goal oriented, wants a family, responsible, etc), he's a loser. I think that's part of why she was attracted to him. Because he's "fun"


These two statements are quite contradicting. Where do you live if you can't afford to rent an apartment?


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> These two statements are quite contradicting. Where do you live if you can't afford to rent an apartment?


I live in Chicago. We just bought a house and so I don't have an extra 600 a month for a studio apartment in a safe area.

Like I said in one of my earlier posts, I'm a fast riser in my company, but my company is known for their **** pay. I'm not poor (obviously, since I can afford a house), but what that means is that I don't have enough money to up and leave. We also only have one car.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

southernsurf said:


> are you worried if you separate she might continue seeing other guys?


Honestly, and a little surprisingly, I'm not as worried as I think I should be. Obviously I'd be really hurt if she did start seeing other guys, but honestly, it'd be the impetus I'd need to know it's over. And I'm already hurt anyway, so...it's not like I could get that much worse.

I think I'd be jealous, if anything. Because she's a female and because she's good looking, it wouldn't be hard for her to find someone. She would, quickly. I guess I don't think as highly of myself because I just can't see why anyone would want to be with me. I'm not ugly, but not what people typically consider handsome. I'm in shape but not "fit". I'm a bit of an introvert. I don't know. The whole Nice Guy thing keeps coming back up...


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

OK, sorry I'm going to be blunt. You think he's a loser but obviously your wife does not. It sounds to me like your wife went for what she thought is an "upgrade" from you with the OM. He is from a rich family, is going to be a doctor with huge salary and apparently is attractive enough for your wife. The only thing that ended their affair was him going abroad.

I think you're in denial. It sounds like you're plan-B to your wife.


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## nevergveup (Feb 18, 2013)

Sorry my friend for what your wife has done to you.

She has lied so, I wouldn't trust her on not getting pregnant
just to hang on to you.

You came to TAM for advice cause, you deep down probably 
can't fully trust her again.

If you can never fully trust her,divorce and find someone 
who is honest like you.

Your still young and have no dependents, so you have the 
opportunity to start fresh.

In all the things you have said,you will always doubt and wonder
if your wife is lying and gas lighting you.

Good Luck


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> You're not wrong.


Its called hypergamy. Read up on it then think about your wife. She was probably looking to step up but she won't leave you until she has the next guy in place. plan A and B
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

I understand your pain but ........you are putting yourself in this situation. You are with a TOXIC person. She will not change. If you stick around her, she will damage you more. You are responsible for your happiness or sadness. It is up to you to say "You know what, I do not need to put up with this BS in my life any more, I am better than this, I deserve better, I can damm sure find people that will treat me with respect than this POS!"
You have received a lot of good advice here at TAM, I hope you listen to them and ACT on there hard won advice. David


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The life you have now as you have described it is horrible. 

Who would ever willingly choose it?

Staying in this situation out of fear, sacrificing your own happiness for a cheating wife, is a sign to me you might have serious self-esteem issues and need to get some individual counseling.

I'm sorry for you that you have to go through this.

But seriously, friend, you need to move on from this disaster of a marriage.

She looked you in the eye and called you paranoid when you asked her to not see him when alone. This is when she must have first started banging him, and shows you how little you mattered to her.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

southernsurf said:


> Its called hypergamy. Read up on it then think about your wife. She was probably looking to step up but she won't leave you until she has the next guy in place. plan A and B
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I mean, I get it, but I don't think that's what she was trying to do. She even admits that he was basically a player and just used her.

We just had a big explosive fight and she stormed out and drove away. She wrote me a letter that explains why she loves me and why we should be together, and long story short, i called it all a lie and BS. That did not go well.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't know how else to put this. You have to leave her while you still have no real obligations to her. She banged this guy countless times for months behind your back because he was "fun"? This is her intentionally setting out to hurt you; don't think it's not! My friend, where is your self respect and dignity? You haven't given one good reason why you should stay with her and work through this.

Leave her, file for divorce and get away from her for a while and clear your head. Meet other women and see if you feel the same way after a few months. What she did is not forgivable.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

Stay strong, she did this, don't crumble, let her go
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

You're fighting uphill because this happened 8 months ago, makes each fight harder, should have put her out day 1 but that's then. Today you need a new plan, stay here and let these faceless people that have been in your shoes help you. I think you need to get her out of the house. Can she move in with her parents?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jim123 (Sep 29, 2012)

southernsurf said:


> You're fighting uphill because this happened 8 months ago, makes each fight harder, should have put her out day 1 but that's then. Today you need a new plan, stay here and let these faceless people that have been in your shoes help you. I think you need to get her out of the house. Can she move in with her parents?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree, this is a classic forgave too soon issue. She cheated and he rewarded her with a house, trip, furniture and more.

More than likely too late for a lot of things.

She needs to write a no contact letter to this guy and his family. Since they use to work together I may talk with the employer. Get this on his record. May cheaterville too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

Get out if the marriage my friend. My wife and I were only on year 4 when she cheated. I walked out and took only what I could fit in my truck. Of course I don't own a house like you, so you can't just leave, but I would ask her to leave. Two years into a marriage is way too soon for her to start cheating. That tells me she married you for security, not because she is into you. My wife did the same thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> I mean, I get it, but I don't think that's what she was trying to do. She even admits that he was basically a player and just used her.
> 
> We just had a big explosive fight and she stormed out and drove away. *She wrote me a letter that explains why she loves me and why we should be together, and long story short, i called it all a lie and BS.* That did not go well.


Oh yeah, forgot to tell you, in addition to the Oscar-worthy "remorse" performances, they also like to write grandiose letters. Was it just an "I love you" letter, or an explanation letter? Was it a "total confession" letter? Because I got two of those with more holes in it than Bonnie & Clyde.

You're only looking at the tip, but the iceberg is much bigger below the surface.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

I call BS on her story that the OM was a player and she got played. Typical cheater talk. She willingly started the affair by her own choice. Players don't play for eight months. She is not a victim. I think you're better of with some other woman who you can trust and who respects you and values your good qualities.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Thanks for the advice everyone. After she came back, we talked and smoothed things out a bit. Brought up possibly taking a break. It'd have to be me that leaves since she's from another state. I have family or friends I can stay with. Regardless, it won't be able to be a long break since my family doesn't really live close to where I work and I won't have a car to get to the train. The more I think about it, the more it's not feasible. 

I also told her that any future conversations we have about this need to be mediated by a MC to keep us on track when we inevitably have an argument while we're talking about what happened.

I know most of you think I'm weak for not leaving her, and maybe I am, but I guess I still care about her. I don't know how else to put it. It's hard to just leave someone especially after so long. But whoever said it is right, I probably should have left that night. But I didn't, and now I feel stuck. I do love her- that doesn't just stop. It has changed, though, and I know it will never be the same again.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. After she came back, we talked and smoothed things out a bit. Brought up possibly taking a break. It'd have to be me that leaves since she's from another state. I have family or friends I can stay with. Regardless, it won't be able to be a long break since my family doesn't really live close to where I work and I won't have a car to get to the train. The more I think about it, the more it's not feasible.
> 
> I also told her that any future conversations we have about this need to be mediated by a MC to keep us on track when we inevitably have an argument while we're talking about what happened.
> 
> I know most of you think I'm weak for not leaving her, and maybe I am, but I guess I still care about her. I don't know how else to put it. It's hard to just leave someone especially after so long. But whoever said it is right, I probably should have left that night. But I didn't, and now I feel stuck. I do love her- that doesn't just stop. It has changed, though, and I know it will never be the same again.




I understand. You should understand though that you're making excuses because you don't want to split up. All you have done is show her that there's no consequences, so don't be surprised when this happens again. Give it a shot, just keep your eyes open and see things for what they are. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> That's the thing I told her last night. All I wanted was a house and a family and a normal life, but now I don't know how I'm supposed to have kids with her. I literally cannot envision that in my future now.
> 
> I don't know how I'm going to leave. I just don't. I honestly feel like I'm doomed to be unhappy in this forever.


For God sake's don't have kids with this terrible person. You can have a happy family with kids, just not with her. You've wallowed in self pity long enough, and you are waaaay to young to be doing that, especially with no kids. Get yourself to an attorney ASAP and get the D going and get out NOW !!


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

schiller45 said:


> Thanks for the advice everyone. After she came back, we talked and smoothed things out a bit. Brought up possibly taking a break. It'd have to be me that leaves since she's from another state. I have family or friends I can stay with. Regardless, it won't be able to be a long break since my family doesn't really live close to where I work and I won't have a car to get to the train. The more I think about it, the more it's not feasible.
> 
> I also told her that any future conversations we have about this need to be mediated by a MC to keep us on track when we inevitably have an argument while we're talking about what happened.
> *
> I know most of you think I'm weak for not leaving her, and maybe I am, but I guess I still care about her. * I don't know how else to put it. It's hard to just leave someone especially after so long. But whoever said it is right, I probably should have left that night. But I didn't, and now I feel stuck. I do love her- that doesn't just stop. It has changed, though, and I know it will never be the same again.


No, you are not weak. This sh!t is HARD! Your life as you know it turned upside down, and the idea that you should just up and move on is *not* realistic for everybody.

Take your time and do it right. Whatever you decide, do it for you. There will be consequences either way that you will have to live with. It's just that cutting loose will ensure that SHE never does this to you again. 

Do what you need to, and do it on your time. If she pushes, rushes, whatevers, ignore it. She made the mess, she has no right to dictate how and when you clean it up.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

I know everyone has been through it and it's easier for some than others. I just feel like it's going to be so difficult for me. We're going to take a massive hit on our house since we've owned it for less than a year. It's going to be a disaster. I understand it's not any better to stay in a marriage that is broken, but leaving is going to be so. hard.


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## FLGator (Mar 26, 2013)

Over a year now, and it is still hard. My kids are keeping me here. Think long and hard out of what you want from life and how you want to live it.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

What's difficult for me are the "scenarios." 

What if I leave and she truly was horrified about what she did and never would have done it again. Or, the other way- what if I stay and she ends up doing it again and again. What if I leave and never find anyone who makes me happy, and she finds someone and then I'm alone. Things like that keep me up at night and drive me crazy...


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Are you happy now with her? My guess is no since you are here. Your biggest obstacle is your fear of being alone.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

She was banging her friend for 8 months behind your back and did not even bother to use protection putting your health at risk for STD's. What more do you have to know? You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. She did this during the second year of your marriage.

Since she was screwing during the day at work you know that there had to be times when you had sex with her after she was with him. She clearly has no respect for you. What in the world would make you think she has respect for you now knowing she has a husband who forgave her for having sex for 8 months with another man during her second year of marriage? If you have children with this women then you would have to be truly out of your mind.


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> What's difficult for me are the "scenarios."
> 
> What if I leave and she truly was horrified about what she did and never would have done it again. Or, the other way- what if I stay and she ends up doing it again and again.
> 
> ...


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Son, I don't really know if you do but it sounds like you lack back bone, fortitude, grit. This could a, should a, would a, junk is just scapegoating. Your life will ALWAYS be in turmoil until you get YOU under control.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

You were 2 years into your marriage when you found out your wife had been in an affair for 8 months. The first few years of your marriage should had been in the honeymoon stage. Instead your wife was fvcking her lover half the time. 

I cannot in my mind think that your wife really loves you. You must summon all your self respect to stiffen your backbone.

Dont be afraid of being alone. You're only 27 years old. That's still quite young. You'll find that when you're in your 30's, there are amazing number of women in their 20's and 30's interested. Especially since you're in a fast track with your job. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulder in terms of your life outlook.

Dont stay with a cheater. Dont punish yourself for the rest of your life by staying with one who absolutely did not love you enough to stay loyal. Dont lock yourself with misery for the next 50 years of your life.

You stay with a cheater, you pay. Look at your title of this thread. Months after D-day, you're still lost. 

Move on, move on. Dont have kids with her. You'll have to get each baby tested for paternity. You'll have to monitor her. A family with her will be devasting for your kids. You can never relax. Your kids will grow up in a dysfunctional environment. What a life you're heading towards. Move on , move on.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

aug said:


> You were 2 years into your marriage when you found out your wife had been in an affair for 8 months. The first few years of your marriage should had been in the honeymoon stage. Instead your wife was fvcking her lover half the time.
> 
> I cannot in my mind think that your wife really loves you. You must summon all your self respect to stiffen your backbone.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

This is not my usual advice, but in this case I think it is right,

Find the OM,call your wife and tell her because Iof her actions and choices you are going to beat the OM to an inch of his life, then go to the OM, the wimp, and tell him if he pees his pants you won't pulverize him. Take a picture of him wetting himself and post it on your wife's fb.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, and then divorce her.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

s45,

From your responses, it's fairly clear you do love your wife. Your fears that you will never find another are valid. 

Instead of speculation... Hear a Truth.

No matter how happy and satisfied you are in the future with your marriage, you will go to bed every night and look over at her and know this is the same woman who willingly betrayed you. When you wake in the morning, the first thoughts of the day will forever be... there is my wife, the same woman who without regard to our marriage engaged in sex with another man for months on end and played me like toy. 

Remember... yes you can forgive... forget?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Your wife cheated on you for 8 months, did not always use protection, and did it at a time in your marriage when the two of you should still be in the simpler stage of life. You have no kids that tie you to this woman. You need to answer this question for yourself as honestly as possible: Is the reason you do not want to leave your wife over her 8 mo. long affair based on your strong love for her? Or, do you not want to leave her because you are afraid of not being able to find someone else to be happy with? 

I personally believe the biggest reason why you are still there is primarily due to your fear of being alone and not being able to attract another woman to be with you.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> But whoever said it is right, I probably should have left that night. But I didn't, and now I feel stuck. I do love her- that doesn't just stop. It has changed, though, and I know it will never be the same again.


OP,

Earlier you asked what were the consequences did she not receive. You say she's accepted the standard ones; exposure, transparency, new boundaries, she's showing remorse.

But the most *important* one, she has not received. And that, is being put in a position to "believe" that you would leave her over this. 

Had you separated immediately and stayed away for a period of weeks, then started the process of filing for divorce; that would have let her understand what it feels like to lose her husband for cheating; and *that* is the most significant consequence. 

So, you may have missed that initial opportunity, but it's not necessarily too late. You can still separate, still do the 180 on her, and still start the divorce process. That will give you some time to process your thoughts and give her the ultimate test of her remorse. 

If she continues to "demonstrate" that remorse while you're out of the house and moving toward D, then; you can always consider delaying it, and afterwards, take things week by week. 

If she doesn't continue to show that remorse, then you can go through with the D, knowing that path, is the better one.


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

No kids?

You dodged a big bullet. A person like this is easily replaceable (by a real human being who actually understands the meaning of love and respect). 

Dump.
The.
*****.

Don't ever look back and enjoy your life.

Cheers!


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## Alyosha (Feb 27, 2012)

No kids?

You dodged a big bullet. A person like this is easily replaceable (by a real human being who actually understands the meaning of love and respect). 

Dump.
The.
*****.

Don't ever look back and enjoy your life.

Cheers!


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Schiller

Are you sure her family knows exactly what your wife did?

And why have you not spoken to your family about this issue?

Because you are embarrassed? Because you do not want them hating you?

You are living with too much of her guilt.

Stop doing that. 

What you should be realizing by now is that you can be happy.

You can be happy with her.

You can be happy without her.

Both choices will take a lot of work.

What you do not know is if she is truly remorseful. Your wife does not need MC. She needs a good shrink to find out why she made such poor choice so early on in her marriage.

And she needs to understand what she can do to put your fears aside so that you can eagerly participate in the marriage.

If she gets counseling and is unable to build up trust in the marriage then you can make the hard decision.

Baby steps first. Now push her out of any comfort zone, tell her what you expect out of her and hold her accountable.

You have to start somewhere and MC is not the 1st step.

you start with the cheater and her figuring out why she did it in the first place.

HM64


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you posted him up on cheaterville? That would especially hit him later if he becomes a doctor.

Have you exposed the affair to her gang of work buddies?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

schiller45 said:


> I think I'd be jealous, if anything. Because she's a female and because she's good looking, it wouldn't be hard for her to find someone. She would, quickly. I guess I don't think as highly of myself because I just can't see why anyone would want to be with me. I'm not ugly, but not what people typically consider handsome. I'm in shape but not "fit". I'm a bit of an introvert. I don't know. The whole Nice Guy thing keeps coming back up...


See, this is a huge problem for you. I suggest that *you *get counseling for yourself. Figure out why you don't think you deserve better. Look at your list of positives when you compared yourself to the OM. You had a lot of them. So don't you at least deserve someone that won't cheat on you (consider that despite her outward beauty, there seems to be a lot of ugliness inside her).

You need to fix your perception of yourself, regardless of what happens with her. Because until you do, you won't be able to move forward with your life like you deserve.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

schiller45 said:


> Welp, thinking about this not being her first affair is just great. Thanks for that


Have you asked her about this? If so, what was her response and what proof did she offer? 

A good point to drive home how things have changed is that she no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. That she fell into this so quickly makes you question your relationship prior to that. It is now her job to convince you.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Have you asked her about this? If so, what was her response and what proof did she offer?


S45,

If ever there was a truth regarding affairs... There is always more.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Have you asked her about this? If so, what was her response and what proof did she offer?
> 
> A good point to drive home how things have changed is that she no longer gets the benefit of the doubt. That she fell into this so quickly makes you question your relationship prior to that. It is now her job to convince you.


She has claimed over and over again that she's never cheated on me. I gave examples of specific guys I was worried about, and she says nothing has happened with any of them. How can I have her prove she didn't do something if she actually didn't do it? Or, how can I prove she DID do it when there's no way to prove it for real. I've searched facebook, texts, everything.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

*Re: Re: Months after Dday and completely lost*



schiller45 said:


> She has claimed over and over again that she's never cheated on me. I gave examples of specific guys I was worried about, and she says nothing has happened with any of them. How can I have her prove she didn't do something if she actually didn't do it? Or, how can I prove she DID do it when there's no way to prove it for real. I've searched facebook, texts, everything.


Polygraph.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Shaggy said:


> Have you posted him up on cheaterville? That would especially hit him later if he becomes a doctor.
> 
> Have you exposed the affair to her gang of work buddies?


Some of her work friends know. I don't want to ruin her career in case we do stay together. 



happyman64 said:


> Schiller
> 
> Are you sure her family knows exactly what your wife did?
> 
> ...


Great advice. Thanks. I haven'tt old my family because in case we do somehow R, I don't want them hating her forever. It will make our life exceedingly difficult. Her family knows what she did. They have been calling me and offering me help if i need it. 



Alyosha said:


> No kids?
> 
> You dodged a big bullet. A person like this is easily replaceable (by a real human being who actually understands the meaning of love and respect).
> 
> ...


No kids, luckily.

thanks for the advice everyone. I know i need counseling and I plan to go. I tried to have a rational conversation with her about this yesterday and it always just turns into me screaming at her and her crying and eventually storming out. 

I do feel that I need a break from all of this, but it just always seems like a bad time. always. not enough money or nowhere to stay or always something. I know that makes me weak and i need to just do it, and maybe I will. 

I think I plan on showing her this thread, because maybe some of what you guys have said will come across better if she reads it than me saying it directly. I feel like I always have a million things I want to say to her, and I always end up forgetting them or botching them or not making sense. 

I guess it's so hard to leave her because i was so happy when we were good. it's so hard for me to go from being like that to just wanting to leave, even though deep down I think I do.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Absolutely NOT. Do not bring her here. Are you out of your mind?
You would be telling her in advance on what you plan to do.

Look not even 2 years into the marriage and she screwing this guy for 8 months without protection at times. What is wrong with this picture. You are the typical nice guy that will take non stop humiliation and disrespect from your wife. You are the one that needs therapy to understand how to stand up for yourself and regain your self-respect.

After everything she has done to you during your honeymoon period why in the world would she respect you now? Remaining in the marriage sends a clear message to your wife that you will endure the worst amount of humiliation possible and will accept having your health put at risk for STD's. Good lord man - what happened to you to become like this?


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Everyone that I know that cheated early in their marriage (7), all cheated again. Just my personal statistics.

As soon as we (with kids), read no kids, we sometimes stop reading and just say end it. You are starting out your marriage in a bad spot in a world that great relationships are constantly tested.

Frankly, I saw no kids in your post and I stopped reading. I felt bad because I know you poured your heart out so I went back and read everything.

You love your wife, we understand. It's easy for us to tell you to dump her because a lot of us have years and years of marriage with homes, kids, built up retirement.......

I know it feels you have a lot to lose, but at your age, you can rebuild 5 times over again. I see you very unhappy down the road should you ignore this.

Take your time to sort out YOUR feelings but PLEASE don't sweep this under the rug. Work on your self esteem while sorting things out.

First loves are very powerful and she will always be special to you but not all first loves are healthy relationships.

You have been treated VERY VERY HUGELY GIANTLY POORLY. Do not let her get away with this.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

I'd recommend not bringing her to this site. She's going to get a harsh welcome and the advice that you're getting is going to be less effective because she'll have an idea of what you're planning and why, whatever you decide.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm going to be honest in that it's getting increasingly difficult to post here without coming off like a jerk. I hear you all loud and clear that I should end it, and I'm working on it. I don't feel comfortable talking to her about ending it without someone else there like a MC because I don't know what she's going to do. 

Nothing HAPPENED to me to make me this way. It's who I am and it's gotten me pretty damn far in life. Do i have this (serious, serious) issue? Yes. Do i need to work on a lot of ****? Yes. But I take offense when someone is clearly berating me to my (internet) face. it really ****ing pisses me off and I don't feel like it's constructive. It's just not. Some people here have been great, and I realize that I came to YOUR community for advice, but I feel like it's doing more harm than good. I've been worse than normal today. Can't eat, can't sleep. Didn't get one second of work done. All I'm thinking about is what you people have said and it's making me ****ing miserable.

Again, I really do appreciate everyone's input, but i feel like I'm about to become an ******* poster on here and I don't want to do that. I'll come back when I cool off.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Get to your MD for something to take the edge off.

Get into IC too, for yourself. ASAP

Find an MC that deals with infidelity, PTSD. 

Don't make any life changing decisions till your emotions level out.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

If it's getting to you, step away from these forums. 

Ultimately it's your life and you will make the decision you feel comfortable with. 

Yeah, I know, many of us BSs come here with an ax to grind and when new meat comes along with a story of a WS, we jump and tell them END IT! END IT NOW! But that's not always practical and not necessarily what some people want to do. 

There are many members here who not only are still with their WS but even the WS is on here too. 

You should seek them out. They'll be the best ones to guide you through until you make up your mind.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Rugs said:


> Everyone that I know that cheated early in their marriage (7), all cheated again. Just my personal statistics.
> 
> As soon as we (with kids), read no kids, we sometimes stop reading and just say end it. You are starting out your marriage in a bad spot in a world that great relationships are constantly tested.


I think it's misleading to say they were "just starting". They have been in a relationship for eight years and it's like you are ignoring the 5-6 years prior to when they signed a piece of paper and got married.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't get the male/female dynamic. Get the MMSLP book linked to in my signature. You are undermining yourself and your wife. There are no easy answers.

Do not bring your wife here. Any woman reading this would think you are so weak and needy they would run the other way.

You need individual counseling also. An IC with infidelity experience and especially ptsd experience. When it comes to trauma, infidelity is one of the worst.

Showing her this much anger is self defeating, eventually you will nvince her she made the right choice to cheat.

There is another elephant in the room. Why was she out drinking without you. That's absurd.


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

This is advice from many people who have been there, it's just advice and you came for it, you have control over what you do. Take it or leave it, take some, or dont. do whats best for you. Also take your time, separate your head from your heart.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> I'm going to be honest in that it's getting increasingly difficult to post here without coming off like a jerk. I hear you all loud and clear that I should end it, and I'm working on it. I don't feel comfortable talking to her about ending it without someone else there like a MC because I don't know what she's going to do.
> 
> Nothing HAPPENED to me to make me this way. It's who I am and it's gotten me pretty damn far in life. Do i have this (serious, serious) issue? Yes. Do i need to work on a lot of ****? Yes. But I take offense when someone is clearly berating me to my (internet) face. it really ****ing pisses me off and I don't feel like it's constructive. It's just not. Some people here have been great, and I realize that I came to YOUR community for advice, but I feel like it's doing more harm than good. I've been worse than normal today. Can't eat, can't sleep. Didn't get one second of work done. All I'm thinking about is what you people have said and it's making me ****ing miserable.
> 
> Again, I really do appreciate everyone's input, but i feel like I'm about to become an ******* poster on here and I don't want to do that. I'll come back when I cool off.


Schiller you should be mad not even 2 yrs of m and she has an 8 month affair but your anger is misplaced it should be with her. If you have time during lunch, workout release that anger into something constructive jmo.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

You can file for d now and see if she really shows remorse. You will have months to decide.


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## southernsurf (Feb 22, 2013)

S45 do not take any of this personal, its a type of intervention. Everyone is trying to open your eyes, we know the stress will break you. The pattern doesnot change, very high probability she cheated more than this 1 time during or before M. Be very lucky no kids involved because she could in addition to keep cheating make you pay for a long time. People here CAN look in their crystal ball and tell you what the next 10 yrs will look like. The best way to get support here is tell how she is responding during your fights - her words and actions will tell you everything if there's any chance. Stay strong and don't let her see you as weak
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

schiller45 said:


> I'm going to be honest in that it's getting increasingly difficult to post here without coming off like a jerk. * I hear you all loud and clear that I should end it, and I'm working on it. I don't feel comfortable talking to her about ending it without someone else there like a MC because I don't know what she's going to do.
> *
> Nothing HAPPENED to me to make me this way. It's who I am and it's gotten me pretty damn far in life. Do i have this (serious, serious) issue? Yes. Do i need to work on a lot of ****? Yes. *But I take offense when someone is clearly berating me to my (internet) face. it really ****ing pisses me off and I don't feel like it's constructive. It's just not.* Some people here have been great, and I realize that I came to YOUR community for advice, but I feel like it's doing more harm than good. I've been worse than normal today. Can't eat, can't sleep. Didn't get one second of work done. All I'm thinking about is what you people have said and it's making me ****ing miserable.
> 
> Again, I really do appreciate everyone's input, but i feel like I'm about to become an ******* poster on here and I don't want to do that. I'll come back when I cool off.


Dear schiller45,

You admit to not having the courage to speak to your WW about divorce and then take umbrage when strangers point out your obvious insecurity. Ironic, don't you think?

Too bad you can't bottle the anger you feel for some posters on TAM and use it when dealing with your WW.

Good luck.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Hey if you need to take a break from this place feel free to. TAM isn't going anywhere and you wouldn't be the first BS to suffer from TAM overdose.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Schiller,

I know, TAM can be tough to a BS. Personally, I try to focus on the BS's actions, and limit the personal insults. But regardless, I truly believe that all the members here, want the best outcome for you. Some posters see a need to be more "in your face" about it, but they're trying to get the same message across.

If you want to R, I understand. I've been there. I've been in R for two years and trust me, my wife would have made yours look like Mother Teresa.

R can be done, but it's not easy. Two things have to happen. You have to give your wife significant consequences; and, she must accept them while at the same time demonstrating complete and consistent remorse.

So it's a two part act. You have a part and so does she. Just do your part, then wait and watch for her to do hers. If she doesn't, then you will be in a false R. Just that simple.

All I can tell you is that after the betrayal I dealt with, a false R would not be acceptable to me. What about you?


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm back, after a year away from here. I got into IC and realized how many issues i have with regards to the general lack of respect I have for myself. I'm working on it.

We separated in May and I told her that I want a divorce. I just don't love her anymore. Simple as that. 

So, my case is closed here in this forum. I've created a post in the divorce forum.

Thanks again for everyone's advice. I wish it didn't come to this but I'm realizing it's for the best. Sorry I came off as unable to "take" your feedback. I was in the fog, real bad.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

schiller

Glad you updated us on your moving on.

How did your wife take your decision to divorce her?

HM


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

Not well. She has a LOT of issues. Honestly I think we are at different levels intellectually. Her reasons for wanting me to stay are completely self centered. She never once has said to me that she wants me to be happy, no matter what the outcome is.

She also has threatened to not let me see the dogs again if we get divorced. A low blow.


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## CASE_Sensitive (Jul 22, 2013)

Did your parents ever learn the real reason?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

schiller45 said:


> Not well. She has a LOT of issues. Honestly I think we are at different levels intellectually. Her reasons for wanting me to stay are completely self centered. She never once has said to me that she wants me to be happy, no matter what the outcome is.
> 
> *She also has threatened to not let me see the dogs again if we get divorced.* A low blow.


An acceptable response would be... "That's fine. I should probably replace _ALL_ of the dogs in my life anyway, b*tches included."


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

I've learned (the hard way) that if an action requires one to sacrifice their self respect, the answer is don't do it. 

The standard "switching places" helps with that. Ask your self what advice you'd give if a friend came to you with the exact same story. It amazes me that what is so clear to see with someone else is so difficult to apply to oneself.

For the most part people were hard on you because they didn't want to see you make the mistakes they made. 

I'm glad to see you made the decision to end the marriage. 

Lastly, please consider contributing to the posters here. I think you can very much help those who are struggling to come to terms with what you experienced.


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## schiller45 (Jul 7, 2013)

It's honestly hard to read other peoples' stories, especially when they are clearly explaining a relationship in which their spouse is cheating. But I'm almost addicted to it. 

I'll stick around here.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

schiller45 said:


> It's honestly hard to read other peoples' stories, especially when they are clearly explaining a relationship in which their spouse is cheating. But I'm almost addicted to it.
> 
> I'll stick around here.


Tell me about!


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Just read your posts. I'm glad that you are moving on. I have no ax to grind at all. I have not been cheated on, but see many associates in your shoes. Your wife cheated early in your marriage and you have dealt with her infedility. You deserve a better life and wife. Best wishes to your future.


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## carpenoctem (Jul 4, 2012)

*Originally Posted by schiller45 *
QUOTE
_Not well. She has a LOT of issues. Honestly I think we are at different levels intellectually. Her reasons for wanting me to stay are completely self centered. She never once has said to me that she wants me to be happy, no matter what the outcome is.
*
She also has threatened to not let me see the dogs again if we get divorced. A low blow.* _
UNQUOTE



The first time I heard about pup-nups (the doggy equivalent of pre-nup – pre-determing / consenting which spouse will have which dog in case of separation), I thought that was taking it too far.

Well... 
*Dog help us.*


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