# porn in (very small) doses?



## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

For several years now I've been committed to changing my environment such that I do not look at any porn whatsoever. I had told my wife I had been looking at a small amount of it behind her back about 3 years ago. She wasn't happy but appreciated my honesty. Fast forward to 2015---we were having some problems unrelated to the porn issue---I sought help from this site. Some very generous individuals reached out to me and gave me some of the best advice I've ever gotten.

My marriage is stronger than ever. BUT....

in the last few months (I'm 32) my libido seems to have taken a hit. Suddenly I don't really enjoy sex that much late at night, but she does. She can't enjoy it in the morning, but I do. I put up with this instead of making any sort of fit about it, but it was sad not to be able to enjoy orgasm together, where we had for the first 7 years without any problems, any time of day.

I changed a bunch of things at once so I don't know which has been helping, but suddenly my libido is back:
-Eating more cruciferous vegetables (this supposedly helps with T production)
-Exercise including weight training
-Cardio exercise
-Better diet overall
-Removing almost all traces of sugar from my diet

And then finally, despite blocking everything from most of my computers, I am sorry to say I found a way to look at very tiny doses of porn here and there. Let's say once a week or less, for just a few minutes.

I'm not sure which of the above things resulted in my libido suddenly returning, but I feel that the porn may have actually helped. She isn't open to being creative or trying new things in the bedroom, it is as though just watching a little bit of it reminded me that I'm a man and sex is exciting to me or something. And even though the sex with my wife continues to be the same routine as always it was better than ever.

So what does this mean? Am I healthier or does the tiny bit of porn actually help?

I know a lot of folks warn against the addiction of porn. I've been there and believe me I don't want to go back, and I can't...I have it mostly blocked like I said.

Obviously I also don't feel happy about not being able to be open with my wife on this issue, but whatever I've done has solved the sex life issue and she's probably enjoying it more too as a result (harder erections, maybe due to the better health).


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Well, if you were addicted to porn at one time, then you can't touch that stuff at all. Pull the plug again and start from scratch.

Addictions are very hard to control and it's a life long struggle. What helped you in the past?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't see any problem with a small amount of porn. It's when you prefer the porn to you partner, or you neglect your partner and watch porn instead, that it is a problem. Or if your need for it keeps growing and becomes a problem again. A small amount of porn can boost libido - use that to connect with your partner on her schedule, since she can't or won't adapt to yours. You prefer morning sex because testosterone levels are highest in the morning, and are lower in the evening. To get interested in the evening requires some additional stimulus, and if your wife isn't coming on to you to provide it, then the porn may provide the boost to come on to her.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

You've "been there"? Been where, exactly...porn addiction? Is that how you or someone else defines "looking at a small amount of it" 3 years ago?

I can't tell if you're dealing with an actual mental problem or someone else's convenient redefinition of pathological deviancy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Ok well...to describe the problem I had suffered from before, I was basically very compulsive and any time I'd have a spare moment to go look up...SOMETHING...whether it be porn or even just non pornographic images or videos of women moving in ways that I found appealing or arousing. It got quite out of control to the point where I was compulsive about this (with the non porn stuff I mentioned) even at work. I at least had the good sense not to look at porn AT work. But the compulsion was there, and it was very unpleasant as it made it difficult to focus on much of anything. I had a lot of guilt over it.

My solution has been to change my environment. I use web filtering software so that I can't view any of it, at work or at home, ever. My wife holds the key to this software. I was criticized before on this site for using this approach but the way I look at it is---we have unique challenges today. In the past, if a man wanted to see women that were not his wife, he'd have to physically leave home and then pay a ***** house and then not only would he see women he could get sick. Today we have the unique challenge of having EXTREME convenience and ZERO COST to see women of your choosing at any time of day and any location. In my opinion it is an unfair amount of temptation for any man to deal with.

So I'm fighting fire with fire. Technology to keep technology from hurting me.

As for how I'm getting the porn now...I found a way to boot my computer into a web browser only mode. It's very inconvenient, takes a long time, crashes a lot, but it enables me to get that tiny dose I mentioned. And, given my recent very positive results with my sex life, I believe this small amount may actually be beneficial. I have no fear that it will become a compulsive habit again so long as I keep my environment mostly clean.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

onceler1 said:


> My solution has been to change my environment. I use web filtering software so that I can't view any of it, at work or at home, ever. My wife holds the key to this software. I was criticized before on this site for using this approach


That is a very good approach.

If the porn does not interfere with your sex life and you are not doing it constantly, I see no problem here.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

That's the problem with porn/addictive stuff. The person watching it (I have in the past) needs more and more to get the sane effect. And watching a little leads to watching a lot. You know this, OP. Avoid it totally. You know you're just looking for excuses to go back to looking at porn again. Don't lie to yourself. You know damn well you can't keep looking at a "little " porn. Your definition for "a little" will be vastly different a year from now as it is cutrently.

I've avoided all porn for about a year. I try not to look at bikini photos as well, because it makes me want to look at more....
It helps me to just ignore pics of sexy women. I just look forward to seeing my fiancée.

Stop making up easine to look at porn. It's the diet and exercise that's helping. For sure. Kudos on the diet and exercise
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Once again...I have a different take on this. Your libido issues are a symptom of another set of issues. Tell me what you think.

You're a generally pretty anxious guy. Your upbringing was shame based, there were a lot of absolutes. Not much emotional room or support. As a result, you're pretty repressed. Am I close here? 

If so, let me know and I'll continue.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

Odd thing about my problems was that I never needed more and more---I always, always always go back to just a tiny handful of very specific images and videos that have a very specific appearance. Whenever I search for things, I have to look for a long while before I find anything I like. Even though I differ from many porn addicted men in this regard, it's still the same insofar as I had to struggle with the compulsion to find these things. It's not going to get bigger---it can't. I have it blocked everywhere and my current method is extremely constrained. Plus my wife could walk in at any time, I pretty much have to do it when she's somewhere else, which doesn't happen often. I work from home.

Yes, I probably was repressed growing up. It wasn't fundamentalist christian, but it had the same morals if you can believe it. Parents let me go out with girls when I was 16 and older, even let me sleep over at a girl's house once. I fooled around with some girls but didn't have sex til I met my wife. I had sex with her at age 22 before marriage, because I was one of those anti social nerdy types and I was afraid I'd never have sex if I didn't. Thankfully she was the right one and I'm married to her now.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

How much time a day do you think about porn? tHAT will increase, it's not healthy, and it will balloon. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Geez man, you already admitted you were addicted once.
Denial, you're in it. 
Stop it and get back to thoughts of your wife. Therein lies the solution to your libido problems. The diet and exercise is the only other thing you need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Ok, so maybe I'm on to something. First, you're also using terms incorrectly: A Compulsion is an involuntary action, by definition it cannot be controlled. So, if you're able to resist the urge at work, then you're by definition, not compulsive, nor are your actions considered compulsive. This is important, b/c whatever you're doing is under your control and also not the result of a biochemical imbalance, but rather some learned experience. As an FYI, Obsessive refers to the same set of conditions, but regarding thoughts. So, someone with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder has these intrusive thoughts they cannot control, and then are compelled to act on them.

Second, you really cannot be addicted to porn. The sex drive (especially in men) is uber powerful, and triggered by visual stimuli, so looking at porn is innately gratifying, in much the same way cold water is on a hot day. Guys who claim "Addiction" to porn have a lack of self control (please, no arguments, I'm scientifically correct on this), and if we dig around their history, we'd likely find a history of poor impulse control with other things. It's not an "Addiction" in the biological sense.

I think your description sounds more like a lack of correct understanding of your sexual urges rather than any addiction or physical issue. There's no harm in reducing sugar intake or exercising more, but in the absence of a diagnosed physical problem that points to those ingredients as the culprit, you probably perform better b/c you're feeling like you're doing something and regaining a sense of control. This is very common in anxious guys who come from repressed backgrounds who never learned about themselves and their bodies and their urges and the how to accept and modulate them. 

Consider therapy?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> How much time a day do you think about porn? tHAT will increase, it's not healthy, and it will balloon. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Geez man, you already admitted you were addicted once.
> Denial, you're in it.
> Stop it and get back to thoughts of your wife. Therein lies the solution to your libido problems. The diet and exercise is the only other thing you need.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with Evinrude. You remind me of the alcoholic who "doesn't always drink" but when he does, he can't stop. OP, you are looking for validation over something you already admitted is an addiction. And, yes, when it is a compulsory behavior, it is an addiction. You are one who, when you look at it, you *must* look. You go through until you find something you like. You wade through pages and pages to find that *one* video or photo that "does it for you"... and you don't see how this is an addiction? Smh.

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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

I know myself and it isn't a problem anymore. If it becomes a problem this is the first site I'll mention it. I'm just trying to figure out if this small dose may actually be healthy in my case, since for whatever reason it is difficult to get my wife to be really open and creative with sex. I understand that's a fairly common issue. I have no interest in forcing my wife to change her attitude about sex. She's still very giving to me and is there for me even when she isn't necessarily in the mood. I don't think it'd be realistic to try to change her into a nympho.

TBH, maybe I never really was addicted. I've heard of guys with stashes of gigs and gigs of porn and so on. The max I ever had stored away was like say 9 video files or something. Like I said, what I like is extremely specific and I have to hunt for it quite a bit. So it's already constrained.

I feel on some level not looking at any porn whatsoever actually did repress my desire to some degree. Of course I'm still attracted to my wife but its like, if I don't feel "free" to fantasize just a little bit, it's difficult to get my brain into that mode just with my wife alone always. She probably could help matters by being more open but like I said, it is nearly impossible to talk to her about this issue. She immediately feels like something is wrong and then tells me nothing is wrong. If I can solve the problem by stimulating my own imagination just a little bit, then that's good, right? I don't know. Haha.

I feel in the end it's a highly individual matter. If I've found a way to keep this from being destructive and I just see tiny bits of it now and then to remind myself I'm a red-blooded man who likes seeing naked women, it makes me feel virile and helps build up desire for my wife.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Listen, you can't really be addicted to porn. It doesn't work that way.

The issues are self control and modulation. Do you have problems with that in other areas of your life? Knowing how much or when is enough? Can you do things n moderation, or is that hard for you, in general? I just don't think this is a sexual issue in your case, i think it relates to the answers to those questions.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

onceler1 said:


> *I know myself and it isn't a problem anymore.*


Minimizing the problem or dismissing it altogether is another form of denial. Terrible coping mechanism. Now you doubt ever having an addiction.

You are heading down a slippery slope! Nip it in the bud by stopping cold turkey. Get help with your problem. You can't fly solo on this one. It will beat you. You need a back up team!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Unicus said:


> Listen, you can't really be addicted to porn. It doesn't work that way.
> 
> The issues are self control and modulation. Do you have problems with that in other areas of your life? Knowing how much or when is enough? Can you do things n moderation, or is that hard for you, in general? I just don't think this is a sexual issue in your case, i think it relates to the answers to those questions.


Oh bullsh*t! That's the same thing as saying you can't be addicted to alcohol, tobacco, or any other drug. Utter bullsh*t.

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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> Oh bullsh*t! That's the same thing as saying you can't be addicted to alcohol, tobacco, or any other drug. Utter bullsh*t.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. 

Alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs are addictive because of the chemical interactions with the body that creates dependence. 

You also are grossly misinformed about male sexuality.

And if you must talk with me, refrain from swearing.


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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

bibi, I appreciate your concern but I have beaten it, with technology, as mentioned above. The only avenue available to me now is an extremely inconvenient one. Therefore I am not concerned it will get worse. I have responsibilities, and hobbies, and spend a great deal of time with my wife.

One of the odd things is the specific type of imagery I look for really resemble my wife to a T. Funny eh? It's not as though she doesn't arouse me anymore. She does, obviously. I guess its just that since I can't get her to like...be happy about or really seem to enjoy sex with me (except she does in fact orgasm or at least she says she does), I kinda need that extra bit of stimulation.

Until I found the present highly inconvenient avenue to work around all of my internet blockers, I really got to a point where I was repressing sex itself, so at night I'd say to my wife I could do without it, and that sort of thing. It's like having this tiny amount made me feel ok about wanting sex again, which is why I would like to believe the small amount is actually beneficial. "Moderation in all things?" I'm not a fan of anything draconian, so I'm suspicious if I'm told that I must absolutely see none of it, ever, even say softcore in the middle of a movie or something. That's just extreme.

Again this is a unique modern problem isn't it. No man before the internet had to deal with this much unless he shadily obtained video tapes somewhere. And before that, he'd have to go to a peeping booth or what not, which would seem seedy and the wife would want to know where the money went. We have mountains of temptation at our fingertips 24/7. I personally don't think its fair and I believe I've confronted the problem the most effective way that I can.

So if I've solved the problem why am I posting here? I'm not really sure. I guess I was in fact looking for validation for the tiny dose I'm now getting. Ideally of course I could get my wife to be more open.

Maybe that'd happen on its own anyway. I stopped a lot of previous behavior--I used to lecture her. I used to whine to her about sex. Big turn off. I stopped all of those things cold turkey, and now seem more confident and probably somewhat manly (Ihope) when I try to ask her for sex. I think it's all been working well. To my surprise a few weekends ago she was open to having sex in a different room. Just that tiny bit of novelty was nice. Maybe she'll open up more and then this small trickle of porn will feel totally unecessary.

I forgot to mention, we are a very co-dependent couple. She does not drive, she does not have a job. I work from home. We're around each other 24/7. Sometimes like all women she gets a little irritable. It is at those times that I appreciate a few minutes here and there to just enjoy myself. Does anybody else understand this? I know it is wrong on some level, but, it isn't affecting my sex life in this very small amount.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Unicus said:


> Second, you really cannot be addicted to porn.




So, women can't be addicted to porn either?


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> So, women can't be addicted to porn either?


No, Bibi, people (regardless of gender) cannot be addicted to porn.

They can have great difficulty controlling the urge, but that's not the same as addiction b/c the cause isn't an actual chemical dependence on the substance.

It can look or seem the same, but the cause is a totally different. It is the result of self control issues. Folks who have these issues with porn also typically have other self control issues as well.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Unicus said:


> No, Bibi, people (regardless of gender) cannot be addicted to porn.
> 
> They can have great difficulty controlling the urge, but that's not the same as addiction* b/c the cause isn't an actual chemical dependence on the substance.*


What about the chemicals your body produces when you are aroused by the images you see?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Unicus said:


> You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
> 
> Alcohol, tobacco, and other drugs are addictive because of the chemical interactions with the body that creates dependence.
> 
> ...


First, you do not get to inform me of what I can and cannot say. I said your *opinion* is nonsense (note, I didn't say the starred word I said before). And it is. It's your *opinion* that someone cannot be addicted to porn. Yet, we have seen many times that people have had to deal with this very issue. You do them a great disservice by stating that it is impossible to be addicted to it, or to anything similar. Just because someone is not chemically dependent on something does not mean he or she is not addicted. 

And what in the world do you mean that I am "grossly misinformed about male sexuality"? Please, explain because I am *dying* to know what you *think* I don't know lol.

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## onceler1 (May 15, 2015)

In terms of self control, I really can't think of any other thing that I have compulsion with except playing musical instruments. Any time one is around I have to go play it. I also sometimes repeat words under my breath over and over. I don't know if maybe I have a mild form of autism or something that has gone undiagnosed...really not sure. I have a ton of self control when it comes to food and physical exercise.

I also have a lot of self control over masturbation. That can easily get in the way of marital sex by sapping me of energy for it. Every so often I am so ragingly horny that I need to relieve myself but I force myself to wait til after sex with my wife since she'll be good for a week, haha. I used to bug her for more and get really whiny about it, but even though she wouldn't be happy to know I'm still doing it, I believe this is the healthiest thing to do in this situation.

I think about how in the past sometimes married couples were given images of sexual positions to give them ideas. The tiny amount I'm now seeing seems like it is indeed "encouraging" me to feel virile and not feel ashamed of it. At least that's how it feels. I only start feeling really bad when I start looking at every 10 minutes. This is not happening anymore. It's once a week if that.

The compulsions I suffered from as I described above always were going back to one thing over and over. I never had something "grow" into a sprawling mess where I was going everywhere on the internet and downloading everything. I'd only ever go to 1 or 2 sites. Weird huh? Oh well. Thanks for listening, all.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

onceler1 said:


> bibi, *I appreciate your concern but I have beaten it, with technology, as mentioned above. The only avenue available to me now is an extremely inconvenient one. Therefore I am not concerned it will get worse.* I have responsibilities, and hobbies, and spend a great deal of time with my wife.


No, you really have *not* "beaten it". If you had, then you wouldn't be looking for ways *around* the block. That, in and of itself, shows you *do* have a problem.

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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

onceler1 said:


> bibi, I appreciate your concern but I have beaten it, with technology, as mentioned above.
> 
> 
> *OK, just be careful and seek help if you ever feel you are in way over your head.*
> ...


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Bibi1031 said:


> Minimizing the problem or dismissing it altogether is another form of denial. Terrible coping mechanism. Now you doubt ever having an addiction.
> 
> You are heading down a slippery slope! Nip it in the bud by stopping cold turkey. Get help with your problem. You can't fly solo on this one. It will beat you. You need a back up team!


While this is good advice, it is also important to look at a fundamental aspect that is part of the definition of "addiction." *In that if ANY pattern of your behavior is preventing you from functioning normally in society, then it is a serious problem and needs to be addressed. *

Human sexuality and addiction are words that do not seem to mix together very well. Odds are you are likely dealing with shame and vulnerability that is causing you to engage in addicting-like behaviors.

The idea of quitting cold turkey with regards to your sexuality will probably only serve to do you harm, because we are all sexual creatures by nature. What you need to do is confront you shame and be as vulnerable as possible with your spouse/partner, and take a moment to feel what the healing powers of love can do for you. Then you will find your libido return and your desire for porn fade.

Hope that helps,
Badsanta


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

OP, you can't have sex unless you use porn, and you think you're not addicted?

Unicus, your hypothesis about addiction is one that has not been researched properly. Most addictive drugs are copies of compounds made by the body. I guess one can't be addicted to hoarding or the shopping network, or other goofy destructive behaviors. Your hypothesis, is incorrect in my opinion, nor backed by testing.

Porn is no doubt addictive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Meh. Addicted, not addicted, makes no difference to me. If my SO were using porn to get himself feeling more virile for me... Well, I'd just want to leave him and never have sex again.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm still trying to figure out what is so "specific" that you can't google it and find a plethora of it. I mean, if it's porn and it's legal...it's there.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Meh. Addicted, not addicted, makes no difference to me. If my SO were using porn to get himself feeling more virile for me... Well, I'd just want to leave him and never have sex again.


I know @UMP mentions that he uses porn specifically to "enhance" his arousal so that he can continue enjoying sex with his wife into the golden years. 

It is also documented in Masters and Johnson's research where they observed random pairings of couples in order to study the geriatric sexual response, that older men would experienced that variety of random pairings stimulated their otherwise dormant virility to that of feeling like a teenager again. What these men experienced was also clinically observed and confirmed. 

I've also noted that in much of what I have read about female sexuality, it is a somewhat common theme for women to fantasize about a male with such raw and powerful virility that it can be blatantly used for nothing other than to "service" a woman beyond her known limits of sexual pleasure. 

Now for a committed and loyal male in a LTR that desires to please his wife, and she admits to enjoying him at rather extreme states of arousal. I imagine you would be the one that would recommend he enhance his sexuality alone fantasizing in a similiar masterbatorium use by Dr Finch in the 2006 Hollywood move "Running with Scissors." Just a simple room with a chair, childhood blanket, box of tissues, and a respectable picture of the Queen of England on the wall!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aR8YAG48qEo

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Meh. Addicted, not addicted, makes no difference to me. If my SO were using porn to get himself feeling more virile for me... Well, I'd just want to leave him and never have sex again.


I honestly agree with you. If my husband needed porn to get started, or to "enhance" anything, I would leave, too. 

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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Oh bullsh*t! That's the same thing as saying you can't be addicted to alcohol, tobacco, or any other drug. Utter bullsh*t.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



LOL, if you and I agreed on anything we could rule the world!


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Bibi1031 said:


> What about the chemicals your body produces when you are aroused by the images you see?


Then you could be addicted to your spouse, and addiction is a bad thing, so you'd have to get rid of your spouse to regain health!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Then you could be addicted to your spouse, and addiction is a bad thing, so you'd have to get rid of your spouse to regain health!


... isn't that called codependency? :scratchhead:

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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

onceler1 said:


> In terms of self control, I really can't think of any other thing that I have compulsion with except playing musical instruments. Any time one is around I have to go play it. I also sometimes repeat words under my breath over and over. I don't know if maybe I have a mild form of autism or something that has gone undiagnosed...really not sure. I have a ton of self control when it comes to food and physical exercise.
> 
> I also have a lot of self control over masturbation. That can easily get in the way of marital sex by sapping me of energy for it. Every so often I am so ragingly horny that I need to relieve myself but I force myself to wait til after sex with my wife since she'll be good for a week, haha. I used to bug her for more and get really whiny about it, but even though she wouldn't be happy to know I'm still doing it, I believe this is the healthiest thing to do in this situation.
> 
> ...



Dude, both you and your wife are sexually repressed. 

I don't believe there is a real porn addiction, but more an addiction to being aroused and porn does that. It bugs me to no end when porn is labeled as harmful and denigration of women. 

You need to own your sexuality. That means you are open about masturbating and you help your wife understand that it is a natural and healthy thing to do, so long as there remains enough sexual energy to give to the spouse. This means if your wife only wants sex once a week, she better learn to be okay with you masturbating between those 7 days cycles because your sex drive is much more active. 

If anyone told me I couldn't masturbate because...never heard of a valid reason based of true facts...I'd point them to the next stop and encourage them to disembark!

So, all that to say if your sexual energy is always available for your wife, then whatever you do between those sexual occasions is perfectly fine. Whether that's masturating in the shower or beating off to porn, so long as you give your wife as much as she desires, you're just fine.

Owning your sexuality means that you do not hide it in order to accommodate a significant other's sensitivity. You do not apologize that you desire sex and when sex isn't available you masturbate. Do you apologize for sneezing? For urinating? For drinking coffee? Your sexual needs are unique to you and you own them but they do not define you. You can watch grannyporn, or gonzo (what the hell is that anyway) or whatever kinky weird stuff that strikes your fancy (except child porn because then I will have to hunt you down and kill you slowly and painfully) because you are a sexual being and being's have needs. If your wife can't get on board with that then that is something she will have to work on herself. 

But, to get to your original post, I think your increased sexual energy is because you're taking better care of yourself, as @Married but Happy pointed out.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Meh. Addicted, not addicted, makes no difference to me. If my SO were using porn to get himself feeling more virile for me... Well, I'd just want to leave him and never have sex again.


Would you leave him if he needed testosterone injections "to get himself feeling more virile"? Obviously, you're not enough if he needs testosterone - or the little blue pill. Right?

What if he did need testosterone or Viagra, and couldn't afford it? Would you just never have sex, or leave him because of it? What if a little porn is the poor man's testosterone? It boosts testosterone levels, just via a different mechanism, but nowhere near as effectively.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I've seen thread after threads here porn addicts would rather jack off than have sex with their wife.
I just don't want the guy to get to the point where he likes the porn better than he does her.
Of it works for him in the long run, more power to him, I think it's going to blow up in his face. But if not, I don't see it as a huge deal. Thing is, he's said he was an addict, then crawfished. He's had a problem with it--- good indication he will have one again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Would you leave him if he needed testosterone injections "to get himself feeling more virile"? Obviously, you're not enough if he needs testosterone - or the little blue pill. Right?
> 
> What if he did need testosterone or Viagra, and couldn't afford it? Would you just never have sex, or leave him because of it? What if a little porn is the poor man's testosterone? It boosts testosterone levels, just via a different mechanism, but nowhere near as effectively.


It's a good question, and not just an academic one because the reality is that my SO can't really get it up for me.

All I can tell you is that I know he has used porn to get it up, and I came very, very close to leaving him for it. I simply cannot stomach being someone's ejaculation hole while he fantasizes about someone else. It really is that simple for me. If he thinks other women are so wonderfully hot, well he should go get them and stop wasting his time with me.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> What about the chemicals your body produces when you are aroused by the images you see?


Bibi, I don't know if all these questions are serious or not. But, you cannot be addicted to a chemical your own body creates. Common sense.

As I said, people can have issues with self control..that also encompass their sexual urges. But that's not the same as addiction. You cannot be addicted to porn in the true definition of addiction. That doesn't mean some folks have a problem with porn, (or the internet, or their smart phone) but the problem is related to other, psychological (not physical) issues.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Men used to somehow live without porn. Once upon a time there were no phones, computers, DVDs, tapes, or readily available magazines. Only the real thing. If you wanted to see a naked woman you had to find a real live naked woman. If the men of the past could live without porn I'm sure a present day man could do the same if he wanted to.


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## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Men used to somehow live without porn. Once upon a time there were no phones, computers, DVDs, tapes, or readily available magazines. Only the real thing. If you wanted to see a naked woman you had to find a real live naked woman. If the men of the past could live without porn I'm sure a present day man could do the same if he wanted to.


Wrong.

This thread really highlights how misinformed a lot of women are when it comes to men's sexuality.

Porn..and masturbation...are as old as man himself. Before the internet, computers, phones, DVD's...there was photography (some of the earliest were porn, surprise!), and even erotic art which goes back centuries. The issue isn't the availability of porn, it's the presence of men's sexuality. As long as you have the latter, man has found a way to get the former.


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## knobcreek (Nov 18, 2015)

Porn for me allows me to explore things that turn me on that my wife is definitely not into. My wife likes relatively vanilla sex which is fine, I enjoy that too 9 times out 10, but every now and again I gotta get me freaky perv on sans wife. Seems like a good outlet for it.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Men used to somehow live without porn. Once upon a time there were no phones, computers, DVDs, tapes, or readily available magazines. Only the real thing. If you wanted to see a naked woman you had to find a real live naked woman. If the men of the past could live without porn I'm sure a present day man could do the same if he wanted to.


I could literally draw you a picture! Pornography and access to it is as old as drawing and painting.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Porn is Probably as old as prostitution.:surprise:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Livvie said:


> *Men used to somehow live without porn.* Once upon a time there were no phones, computers, DVDs, tapes, or readily available magazines. Only the real thing. If you wanted to see a naked woman you had to find a real live naked woman. *If the men of the past could live without porn I'm sure a present day man could do the same if he wanted to.*


Can, and do. Contrary to popular opinion, not every man watches it, nor WANTS to watch it. 

*Note: I am not saying they have *never* had so much as a glimpse, only that they make the conscious choice to *not* watch it, because they actually do think it is disgusting.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## affaircoach (Jun 4, 2016)

I think you just first ask yourself "Why are you asking this question?". It appears that your gut instinct or feelings are telling you that something is not quite right with this scenario. As you have stated, you do not want to go back to your old lifestyle of watching porn on a consistent basis. 

Another question you may want to ask is what is the underlying reason as to why you are watching porn at all? Is there a need that is not being met? Self-esteem, abandonment issues, lack of sex, etc.

I commend you for asking the questions and seeking assistance/advice from others in your quest to find the answer.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

onceler1 said:


> porn in (very small) doses?


Clicked on thread, full of hope, but no mention of midget fetish anywhere. 

Disappointed....


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

I am so curious...is the idea here (by the anti porn posters) that watching porn is somehow "cheating" on their partner? I'm a woman and I watch/read/whatever porn once a week. I've done so for ages, even when I was in my marriage. It never detracted from my actual sex life. Lots of people do the same thing.

Just because we're in relationships doesn't mean we have to stop masturbating, occasionally viewing porn, etc. We still own our bodies and our sexuality. 

I wouldn't become involved with somebody with such prudish notions.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

always_alone said:


> It's a good question, and not just an academic one because the reality is that my SO can't really get it up for me.
> 
> All I can tell you is that I know he has used porn to get it up, and I came very, very close to leaving him for it. I simply cannot stomach being someone's ejaculation hole while he fantasizes about someone else. It really is that simple for me. If he thinks other women are so wonderfully hot, well he should go get them and stop wasting his time with me.


Are you assuming he was fantasizing about someone else, or do you know? Honestly, I have NEVER fantasized about a woman from porn when having sex with my wife - it's all about her.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

introvert said:


> I am so curious...is the idea here (by the anti porn posters) that watching porn is somehow "cheating" on their partner? I'm a woman and I watch/read/whatever porn once a week. I've done so for ages, even when I was in my marriage. It never detracted from my actual sex life. Lots of people do the same thing.
> 
> Just because we're in relationships doesn't mean we have to stop masturbating, occasionally viewing porn, etc. We still own our bodies and our sexuality.
> 
> I wouldn't become involved with somebody with such prudish notions.


No, I do not think it is cheating. I just have no desire to watch/read/whatever sexually explicit material. Fortunately, I married a man who is like-minded. That isn't to say neither of us has ever viewed any such content, I wouldn't even suggest that notion. 

Now, how did I know that this thread was going to change into "you're a prude if you don't watch it"? Predictable. 

My only concern here has been that OP has the "I can handle it" mentality. Obviously, he can't. He claims that the "technology is in place"... right. Technology he has been working around, to get his fix. Look, I couldn't care less if he watches it or not. Just own it. There is FAR MORE at work here than simply wanting to watch porn. He needs to communicate better with his wife. 

One thing I agree with is that it is FAR better to be with a like-minded partner. Many people would be OK with someone who has a glass of wine after work every day. I wouldn't. I won't be with anyone who drinks alcohol, at all. Again, I am fortunate to be married to a man who shares these views with me. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Are you assuming he was fantasizing about someone else, or do you know? Honestly, I have NEVER fantasized about a woman from porn when having sex with my wife - it's all about her.


I know. 

Tell me, do you need porn to get amped up enough to want your wife?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

onceler1 said:


> in the last few months (I'm 32) my libido seems to have taken a hit. Suddenly I don't really enjoy sex that much late at night, but she does. She can't enjoy it in the morning, but I do. I put up with this instead of making any sort of fit about it, but it was sad not to be able to enjoy orgasm together, where we had for the first 7 years without any problems, any time of day.
> 
> I changed a bunch of things at once so I don't know which has been helping, but suddenly my libido is back:
> -Eating more cruciferous vegetables (this supposedly helps with T production)
> ...


First of all, I also go through bouts of not being interested in sex. For me, it's environment. A rather non-sexual wife (as in we have sex, good sex, but outside of that, there's no flirtation, or over all sexuality coming from her whatsoever until we're actually having sex) so basically it's all on me. That gets tiresome, and sometimes I just shut off, sexually, in all aspects. This can last a week, or up to a month before I shake off the cobwebs.

Yes, porn and the like helps me get out of that, and it's often a conscious decision.

You, however, have an addiction, as has been pointed out here by others. The sheer fact that you took the time to find a way AROUND the self-imposed barriers you set for yourself is absolute proof of this (booting up in browser mode).

I "quit" smoking in my early 20's, but for months afterwards, I was picking cigarette butts out of the ashtray (my GF at the time smoked) when nobody was looking. Just enough to get a puff or two out of. But in my mind, doing that 2 or 3 times a day wasn't "smoking", and I told myself I was no longer addicted. Well guess what? I went back to smoking. Big shock.

So while I was doing this, I felt I was in control. I was smoking in small doses, and only when nobody was around, and only if there were any butts around that still had a puff or two left in them. I went from smoking 15-20 cigarettes a day to having a few puffs, probably the equivalent of 1/2 a cigarette total. I patted myself on the back for this. But I still craved that nicotine.

This is what you're doing with your computer. It's a pain in the a$$ to boot up in browser-only mode, it crashes, and you're getting your fix in small doses, when it works. But eventually you'll want more.

When I finally caved and went back to smoking, I justified it by saying I was ALREADY technically doing it. Whereas prior to that, I didn't equate a few puffs a day as smoking. Somebody offered me a cigarette, and I took it, thinking I could handle it. It's just one. It's not like I hadn't been getting a nicotine fix at all until then.

All addictions are the same. It's either black or white, there's no in between, despite our best efforts to tell ourselves there is. I don't know a single recovering alcoholic who only has a sip every now and again.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

introvert said:


> I am so curious...is the idea here (by the anti porn posters) that watching porn is somehow "cheating" on their partner? I'm a woman and I watch/read/whatever porn once a week. I've done so for ages, even when I was in my marriage. It never detracted from my actual sex life. Lots of people do the same thing.
> 
> Just because we're in relationships doesn't mean we have to stop masturbating, occasionally viewing porn, etc. We still own our bodies and our sexuality.
> 
> I wouldn't become involved with somebody with such prudish notions.


In my case, it basically is cheating -although he of course does not view it that way. He takes the same line you do, his body, his sexuality, and wants me to pretend that he doesn't watch it every day, that he doesn't basically choose it over me. 

I have nothing against masturbation, or nudity, or erotica. I do think most porn is about degrading women and treating them like disposable objects, and it makes me super sad that so many people think that's cool.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

introvert said:


> I am so curious...is the idea here (by the anti porn posters) that watching porn is somehow "cheating" on their partner? I'm a woman and I watch/read/whatever porn once a week. I've done so for ages, even when I was in my marriage. It never detracted from my actual sex life. Lots of people do the same thing.
> 
> Just because we're in relationships doesn't mean we have to stop masturbating, occasionally viewing porn, etc. We still own our bodies and our sexuality.
> 
> I wouldn't become involved with somebody with such prudish notions.


The "is porn cheating" question is interesting, and I can see both sides. (and I'm an occasional porn watcher).

In a way, it is, but it's often more socially acceptable because it's not "real life", therefore it doesn't pose a real life threat to somebody, personally. Because it's one-sided means that it's controllable by the user.

I remember this topic being discussed here a while ago, and somebody brought up video sex chat. You have two real people, watching each other and talking to each other, while performing sex acts (masturbation). Essentially, it's two-sided live porn. These two people don't know each other any more than one knows the people you're watching in a pre-recorded video. The only difference being is that there's a line of communication open - which makes it a threat, and technically "cheating". I don't disagree. So the gist of the argument was that if it's live, it's cheating. If it's pre-recorded, it's "just porn".

What if the porn I watch is of somebody I know? What if it's video of my ex wife and myself that I still have on my computer? (I don't, by the way!! Nor have I ever come across anybody I know in any videos, just saying..) What, exactly, makes it cross a line? Because I know, or knew, that person? Is it only porn when we don't know the people in the video, otherwise it's cheating? Is it only acceptable when it's pre-recorded and not live?

What I'm saying is that it's SO open to interpretation. My wife would absolutely NOT be comfortable with me watching old sex tapes of my ex wife and I. But the question is why, exactly? Solely because of who it is? Even if there's no more threat to our marriage than by watching a stranger? And my wife would NOT be comfortable with me live video chatting with a woman in Australia whom I'll never meet. Why? Because it's live and not pre-recorded? Because it's 2-sided, as opposed to 1?

To me, none of the above poses any more of a threat to a relationship than by watching pre-recorded videos of strangers - yet none of the above is socially acceptable (including by me). Yet they all serve the exact same purpose - getting off sexually, without your partner.

But why, exactly?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

always_alone said:


> I know.
> 
> Tell me, do you need porn to get amped up enough to want your wife?


No, I think my wife is very sexy and desirable. However, when I had a period of low T levels, it was much more challenging to feel that way, and our sex life slowed down during that time. I didn't start watching more porn, but it did seem to help my libido a little when I did. We were BOTH happy about that.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

alexm said:


> But why, exactly?


That's a good question. What if you just have a good imagination, and the movie is in your head? Far fewer people would have a problem with that, but it serves the same purpose - it would just require a little more effort.

Once you get past all the silly superstition and ridiculous social stigma surrounding masturbation, you learn it's a healthy and normal activity, and important for optimal reproductive success.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

I am 54 and married 25 years.
I take Androjel testosterone cream and Viagra. I am a heart attack survivor, 99% blocked in "widow maker" artery. 
I watch porn for a few minutes every day or other day, give or take.
Why? It gets my motor going. Does my wife mind? Nope. In fact, I watch before we have sex. It gets my juices flowing. I never masturbate while watching porn, at least to conclusion. I save that for my wife.

Just last night I had a conversation with my wife. As I reflected on my life I realized that I get tired of everything, in time. I used to fly planes, race cars, golf competitively, etc. etc. All these things have come and gone. However, after 25 years of marriage our sex life is wonderful. It actually keeps getting better.

I view porn as a glass of wine before sex. Just one more thing that helps me ravage my wife. Just this past Friday my wife was on her period and gave me a BJ WHILE I WAS WATCHING PORN. Is there anything better than that? There are no sweeter words uttered by a wife than "honey, just sit back, take your time and watch the porn while I suck your ****." 

Heaven on earth. 

I love my wife more than you can possibly imagine. I have never cheated on her and pray that I never do.
She is amazing. She is my right hand, literally


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

A


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Married but Happy said:


> That's a good question. What if you just have a good imagination, and the movie is in your head? Far fewer people would have a problem with that, but it serves the same purpose - it would just require a little more effort.
> 
> Once you get past all the silly superstition and ridiculous social stigma surrounding masturbation, you learn it's a healthy and normal activity, and important for optimal reproductive success.


Right, and 99% of the time it's spent fantasizing about, or viewing people other than your partner. 

Essentially, it's all the same when you really get down to it. Porn, pictures, fantasy, web chat, video chat. It's all look (or imagine) and not touch.

Like I said, I get both sides, and I have my own lines drawn. I don't feel super awesome about occasionally watching porn, but I don't view it as cheating (nor does my wife, afaik) and I don't feel any shame. But I wouldn't skype some stranger and masturbate in front of her, and vice versa, either. But there are cam girls or whatever they're called, which is live and you can see them, but they can't see you. I guess it's about being one-sided that makes it okay. But I wouldn't do THAT, either.

But again - why? It's serving the same purpose, these are real people, there's no physical touching, etc. Yet it's socially "okay" when it's pre-recorded and one-sided with no communication between the two parties.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> It's a good question, and not just an academic one because the reality is that my SO can't really get it up for me.
> 
> All I can tell you is that I know he has used porn to get it up, and I came very, very close to leaving him for it. I simply cannot stomach being someone's ejaculation hole while he fantasizes about someone else. It really is that simple for me. If he thinks other women are so wonderfully hot, well he should go get them and stop wasting his time with me.



This is similar to going to a James Bond movie and enjoying Daniel Craig for 90 minutes then going home, or behind the theater, to have sex. Erotic images, erotic words...they are meant to arouse in a fantastical way. I see erotic pictures of women in handcuffs and I am totally aroused. It's not the women I'm attracted to, it's the situation, it's imagining myself in that situation, again in a fantastical way (because I'm always 29 in my fantasies) I'm not having sex and picturing Daniel Craig or the guy who's sleeve and hand are in the pict of the woman in handcuffs. 

You can look at minimalist drawing of sexual positions and become aroused, it's not the sexy male or female stick figure, it's the feeling associated with the action in the drawing.

Having said all of that, like you, if I discovered my sex partner was fantasizing about the woman in porn I would have to end it as well. I wouldn't waste my time with someone that vacuous.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> My only concern here has been that OP has the "I can handle it" mentality. Obviously, he can't. He claims that the "technology is in place"... right. Technology he has been working around, to get his fix. Look, I couldn't care less if he watches it or not. Just own it. There is FAR MORE at work here than simply wanting to watch porn. He needs to communicate better with his wife.
> 
> One thing I agree with is that it is FAR better to be with a like-minded partner. Many people would be OK with someone who has a glass of wine after work every day. I wouldn't. I won't be with anyone who drinks alcohol, at all. Again, I am fortunate to be married to a man who shares these views with me.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



Idk, Maricha...I don't see the filters OP has in place as a red flag. We all use little tricks here and there to help keep us going in a direction we feel is best for us. And frankly, religious reasons aside, having a glass of wine every day is a clinically proven healthy way to relax and if it's red wine it's good for cardiac health.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> Idk, Maricha...I don't see the filters OP has in place as a red flag. We all use little tricks here and there to help keep us going in a direction we feel is best for us. And frankly, religious reasons aside, having a glass of wine every day is a clinically proven healthy way to relax and if it's red wine it's good for cardiac health.


See? I knew it wouldn't last. 😂

In my case, the alcohol is, of course, religious. If anything, I will stick with grape juice. 😉

As for OP... well, I just get suspicious when someone says a filter is working, when it clearly is not. Watch it or not, I really don't care. But don't say the program is working when you are working around it to see what it is blocking. That makes me think you have a problem. 

Another thing about the porn vs his unadventurous wife... I'm sorry, but if she doesn't want him watching it, then she should, *at least* be open to trying new things with him. Anon, you know my thoughts on both subjects. So you know that if I am saying, basically, "put up or shut up" with regards to this, then it means something. I'm not suggesting she should force her self to be intimate with her husband. But, if she doesn't want to try anything new, at all... It just bothers me. 

And I can't articulate it very well, either, so I hope you were able to muddle through what I was trying to say, @Anon Pink lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> See? I knew it wouldn't last. 😂


Wait for it...



> Another thing about the porn vs his unadventurous wife... I'm sorry, but if she doesn't want him watching it, then she should, *at least* be open to trying new things with him. Anon, you know my thoughts on both subjects. So you know that if I am saying, basically, "put up or shut up" with regards to this, then it means something. I'm not suggesting she should force her self to be intimate with her husband. But, if she doesn't want to try anything new, at all... It just bothers me.
> 
> And I can't articulate it very well, either, so I hope you were able to muddle through what I was trying to say, @Anon Pink lol.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk



See, we agree again! It bothers me a great deal when I hear about anyone, man or woman, who refuse to venture outside of their sexual comfort zone AND get all pissy about their partner watch porn. "I'm a repressed prude and I expect you to be a repressed prude as well!" Ummm no.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

Maricha75 said:


> Now, how did I know that this thread was going to change into "you're a prude if you don't watch it"? Predictable.


Whoa, whoa, whoa...I did not morph this thread into a "you're a prude" thread at all!

I was truly curious about the mindset of the anti-porn peeps, as I have always had somewhat of a sexually adventurous spirit and wanted to know how they (anti-porn) truly viewed the situation.

I think it's great that you found a mate with your same views, and I am an adult and believe that we can all just agree to disagree.

I am really getting a laugh here, because it seems that my ex and I were cheating on each other while we were having sex with each other, according to many of the poster's opinions! I feel so...lewd, I guess. :grin2:


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Do you really think that if your husband/bf. is watching porn, that he doesn't think about those women, when he has sex with you? Ever?


My father was a lawyer who taught me many things one of which was "never ask the question if you're afraid of the answer." I would never ever ask my husband who he thinks about during sex, ever! That is HIS business. I have no right to his private thoughts. I don't even think about it. It seems a rather neurotic line of thought. "Who is he thinking about? Is it me? That woman he works with? Some young thing he saw in porn? I must know who he is thinking about!"

Conversely, he has no right to mine. >

I'm 53, had 3 kids and a bunch of surgeries with all the resulting scars and stretched skin. I'm sure his minds eye can come up with something a little less worn.

When I'm 65, I'm sure he'll be picturing some young thing in her 50's. 

We all age.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Interesting thought. I think that women are much better able to run a movie in their heads than men are - many men need the actual visual for some reason that I (as a woman) can't understand.
> 
> Is one less offensive than the other? Good question.


FWIW, I'd say it is far more likely my wife is thinking about someone / something else to get her motor running. She does seem to close her eyes a lot, and generally smiles. As a male, never found it necessary to think about anyone other than the women I'm with at the time. 

Now, could some ideas about what to do come from porn? Sure, absolutely, but it's the thing not the girl that was in the flick. I really think this is a diff between men and women. Not saying your guy couldn't be thinking of another but the seems quite screwed up to me...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

introvert said:


> I am really getting a laugh here, because it seems that my ex and I were cheating on each other while we were having sex with each other, according to many of the poster's opinions! I feel so...lewd, I guess. :grin2:


Before you get too judge-y about other people, you might want to consider that we are coming from very, very different experiences.

I don't suppose you ever had to actually compete with porn and lost?
For example.

In some ways I envy women who are happy with the way we are portrayed in porn, who want to be the object of male fantasy, who want to be submissive to male desire, who want to doll up in heels and lingerie and don't really care that women's pleasure is expected and to be performed regardless of what is happening around her.

But I can't help myself. I find that stuff such a huge turn-off and I absolutely and completely resent being expected to live up to a porn view of what women are to be considered a sexual or desirable non-prude.

I realize that this males me an anomaly and destined to be a sexual reject, who always loses out to porn.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I'm 53, had 3 kids and a bunch of surgeries with all the resulting scars and stretched skin. I'm sure his minds eye can come up with something a little less worn.
> 
> When I'm 65, I'm sure he'll be picturing some young thing in her 50's.
> 
> We all age.


I admire the way that you simply don't care, and are happy to be substituted with fantasy. I can't seem to get there.

My SO isn't at all threatened by my fantasies, and doesn't care where I get my motor running. I think he rather should be concerned because most of my fantasies involve me leaving him, and when I think about someone else, I mean it.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> My father was a lawyer who taught me many things one of which was "never ask the question if you're afraid of the answer." I would never ever ask my husband who he thinks about during sex, ever! That is HIS business. I have no right to his private thoughts. I don't even think about it. It seems a rather neurotic line of thought. "Who is he thinking about? Is it me? That woman he works with? Some young thing he saw in porn? I must know who he is thinking about!"
> 
> Conversely, he has no right to mine. >
> 
> ...


Why do you assume that you will not be sexy at 65?
Sexy is in the eyes. My wife is MUCH MUCH more sexy to me at 50 than when I first met her, no shiit!

I am certain you'll find a way to out sexy any of your husbands fantasies, even at 65.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> I admire the way that you simply don't care, and are happy to be substituted with fantasy. I can't seem to get there.



But I am not substituted. That's the point I cant seem to make. Viewing erotic images that cause a visceral response is not substituting a spouse or SO. The mind is the key player in establishing a physical arousal. Thinking about images that were viewed is NOT the same as thinking about the person in those images.

When you watch porn are you not aroused at all? I think the vast majority of women are aroused but they actively inhibit it because of the intellectual ideal that the female is being objectified. Well so is the male. The action supports the objectification of the female, makes it appear like she is totally turned on by the mere presence of the male and anything he does works wonders on her body when we know IRL that is not how the female body typically works. But if you allow yourself to just feel what those images do to your arousal, you'll come to understand that you are not aroused because you're attracted to the guy, or the girl. You're aroused because seeing people have sex is arousing. We all have a touched of voyeur in us.



> My SO isn't at all threatened by my fantasies, and doesn't care where I get my motor running. I think he rather should be concerned because most of my fantasies involve me leaving him, and when I think about someone else, I mean it.



Okay now that's damn funny. "You want to know my fantasies? Well, they always begin with me driving away in a sexy convertible leaving you at the curb..."


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

A


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@OliviaG,

This is a very interesting topic to explore so thank you for your honest candor, not that anyone is being dishonest but the intimacy of your candor is like a full accounting...

I think to understand what you describe we must first understand the mind of the child that you were when you first encountered pornographic images. A young child, early elementary age when modesty has been taught but sexuality remains undeveloped, is frightened by things they do not understand and cannot conjure up a meaning that makes sense in their limited knowledge of the world. As an example: Child hears noises and believes it's a monster, not the snapping of the wood as the cooling or heating of the house against the opposing temperature outside expands or contracts. Noises when things should be quiet, cannot attribute knowledge or meaning, thus fear. So the fear you felt when you so those nudy cutie playing cards was because you could not possibly ascribe a meaning to them. This would be even more acute if your family practiced strict-ish boundaries on nudity and the site of other nude bodies particularly your parents, were not a normal occurrence to you. Also the young child doesn't have the neural connections to grasp the context of sexuality. We know that children raised in cultures where parents have sex while only thinly veiled from their children, tend to view the acts as nothing more than watching a parent sneeze or pee. They make funny noises and funny faces. Once the child's is near puberty and neural pathways and coming on line-so to speak- the child understands the context of what he knows to be taking place behin the curtain but has learned and been taught that this is a normal activity and manners dictate that he must give the illusion of ignorance thus allowing respect for privacy.

Okay, so you as a child had no idea that people looked at nude bodies, or that women wanted to have their picture taken while nude, or that the man you trusted and liked, might like to look at nude women. Fear reaction because you do not have the ability to contextualize this. Secondly, if nudity was not a normal every day occurrence, you might have picked up (from your own parents or perhaps extended family or friends) that nudity was something to actively avoid. If nudity was something to actively avoid (active meaning "DONT COME IN IM CHANGING!" from a parent) then the presence of nudity in the form of those cards, might be something bad and if it is something bad, that means you could be in trouble for seeing them. Double fear.

Early experiences absolutely leave a blue print on how we contextualize adult experiences. Phobias develop because we had an early negative experience and then we also encountered that again and each time we encounter that we react with fear and avoidance, which cements the fear and helps it to grow into a phobia because now we experience the fear when we simply contemplate the object of the fear...plus the phobic person also tends to be an anxious person in general. However, in your case, you didn't encounter more out of context sexual images. Once puberty set in and your sexuality began to develop, you learned about pornography and you also learned it was a bad thing. You may or may not have remembered those images you found in that desk years ago, but your body did. Seeing pornographic images was something that you should avoid and on the odd event that you did see them you had the operant conditioned response (fear) and you had the associative response (disgust) because girls aren't supposed to like porn because girls aren't supposed to be sexual beings.

That's my take on your response to porn. Of course, I could be totally wrong. But at the moment, I think this explains your response pretty well.

You could recondition yourself if you wanted to. Take some time to look at nude art. Some of it is really beautiful. Meant to beautify the human body, not neccissarily in a sexual context. Clinically examine those images, the shading, the shaping, the pencil lines or brush strokes. Then move on to erotic art. These are nudes that are posing within a sexual context but not actively engaged in sex. It's just a slow build up to retrain the brain that the fear and disgust response might not be appropriate in all porn situations. I've seen some porn images that warrant a disgusted response but mostly the response is a level of arousal.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> You could recondition yourself if you wanted to. Take some time to look at nude art. Some of it is really beautiful. Meant to beautify the human body, not neccissarily in a sexual context. Clinically examine those images, the shading, the shaping, the pencil lines or brush strokes. Then move on to erotic art. These are nudes that are posing within a sexual context but not actively engaged in sex. It's just a slow build up to retrain the brain that the fear and disgust response might not be appropriate in all porn situations. I've seen some porn images that warrant a disgusted response but mostly the response is a level of arousal.


Anon Pink: what you say is mostly very smart, but I disagree with where you are going with this.

I have no objection to, and never have had any objection, to nudity, to erotic images, nor have I had any hang ups about sex. But the reality is that like OliviaG, my reaction to porn is entirely different. It is not just my "intellectual ideal" about women's objectification that I am responding to. It is a visceral and deep reaction to the way that the women are being portrayed. 

And no, men are not objectified in the same way. They are always portrayed as the agents of actions, not just the receivers. You hardly ever see the man, except for what can't be kept out of the shot, because the focus is on the women (at least in heterosexual porn). The women, on the other hand, are supposedly thrilled at whatever is happening to them, even when you can actually see the pain in their eyes. It's fvcking revolting, if you ask me. 

To be honest it makes me feel very sad that because I feel this way, that I am to be viewed as some sort of undesirable demanding prude. That supposedly I "should" feel arousal watching women get banged around by some dude, and that the fact that I don't want to play little porn girl that I am to be classified forever as prude-y mcugly-loser. 

Unlike OliviaG, on the other hand, I can identify my childhood correlates to my hatred of this sort of objectification, and it began at 9 years old when I was started to be treated like a piece of meat by men around me. Those men didn't care one whit about how their sexual fantasies affected me, or what they turned me into to. They just used me for what I was good for and threw me out like garbage. And that's what porn brings to my mind.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> But I am not substituted. That's the point I cant seem to make. Viewing erotic images that cause a visceral response is not substituting a spouse or SO. The mind is the key player in establishing a physical arousal. Thinking about images that were viewed is NOT the same as thinking about the person in those images.



What I was responding to specifically was your claim that you don't ask what your husband is thinking about during sex because you don't want to know. And that it is neurotic to want to know.

But if my husband is dreaming of some little 18 year old porn star -- well it matters to me. Because, honestly, I can't get it up any more after that.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@RainbowBrite

I wouldn't say you have a hang up. I think the multiple images are a bombardment and probably make you feel unsafe because it's too much to visually sort which images are safe to look at and which images make you feel a sympathetic response.

I think it's also clear that humiliation and objectification are not a turn on for you! 

Feminist porn is made for women by women, sometimes referred to as lesbian porn. But to say it is lesbian porn is applying a heteronormative term implying that only lesbian women like feminist porn or that men wouldn't enjoy watching feminist porn.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> What I was responding to specifically was your claim that you don't ask what your husband is thinking about during sex because you don't want to know. And that it is neurotic to want to know.
> 
> But if my husband is dreaming of some little 18 year old porn star -- well it matters to me. Because, honestly, I can't get it up any more after that.


But he could also be thinking about his little sister's Barbie that has fascinated him since he first saw it naked. It really doesn't matter provided you feel as if he is emotionally present with you while having sex. A person's thoughts belong entirely to them and no one else has any right to know them. So you're either jumping to conclusions that your SO is or might be thinking about some porn chick while he's having sex with you, or your SO actually said this to you out loud, knowing how sensitive you are which would place him in the running for a Darwin Award! Lemme at em!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> But he could also be thinking about his little sister's Barbie that has fascinated him since he first saw it naked. *It really doesn't matter provided you feel as if he is emotionally present with you while having sex.* A person's thoughts belong entirely to them and no one else has any right to know them. So you're either jumping to conclusions that your SO is or might be thinking about some porn chick while he's having sex with you, or your SO actually said this to you out loud, knowing how sensitive you are which would place him in the running for a Darwin Award! Lemme at em!


Actually the bolded is the key. He is not stupid enough to outright say that he wants [whoever], and clever enough to lie to me to say it's really me. But the truth is obvious.


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

RainbowBrite said:


> always_alone, I don't think there's any desensitizing yourself to something like that. I've not experienced what you describe, but even so, I know that if I had it would have left a very deep and lasting impression on me. Someone should have protected you from such treatment. My heart goes out to you.


Thanks, RainbowBrite! What I described was only the begining, so yes, absolutely a deep and lasting impression, and why I react so strongly to it.

Honestly, it really makes me sad that people find this stuff so easy to overlook or not care about ... and that *I'm* the one who is said to have the problem. But no doubt that is the way of it ...


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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

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## RainbowBrite (Dec 30, 2015)

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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Anon Pink: what you say is mostly very smart, but I disagree with where you are going with this.
> 
> I have no objection to, and never have had any objection, to nudity, to erotic images, nor have I had any hang ups about sex. But the reality is that like RainbowBrite, my reaction to porn is entirely different. It is not just my "intellectual ideal" about women's objectification that I am responding to. It is a visceral and deep reaction to the way that the women are being portrayed.
> 
> ...



I recall you had some very traumatic experiences but the way you classify yourself and assume other people classify you is wrong. Although you may have experienced behavior from others that indicate otherwise, you are not a prude, you are not ugly, you are an intelligent clever woman with a heart of gold whose only flaw is not knowing her personal worth.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I recall you had some very traumatic experiences but the way you classify yourself and assume other people classify you is wrong. Although you may have experienced behavior from others that indicate otherwise, you are not a prude, you are not ugly, you are an intelligent clever woman with a heart of gold whose only flaw is not knowing her personal worth.


While I do not agree at all with always alone about porn. I do however feel her pain in her posts. How her husband can be so clueless about her feelings or better yet doesn't care either way is disturbing. She should have left long ago.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

always_alone said:


> Before you get too judge-y about other people, you might want to consider that we are coming from very, very different experiences.
> 
> I don't suppose you ever had to actually compete with porn and lost?
> For example.
> ...


Before YOU get too judge-y, not all porn is alike. I know perfectly well that we all come from different backgrounds and circumstances. We have different experiences behind us- that doesn't make one group all "right" and another all "wrong". 

As I posted earlier, I am a grown-up who understands that many of us will have to agree to disagree.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

RainbowBrite said:


> So what's your diagnosis? Am I just weird about porn, or what?


I don't think you're weird about porn at all. I think though that a lot of the time (not always) people who have an issue with porn often do because they don't understand it. I used to be like that. It took several years before I opened up to it.

I used to be totally turned off by it, and the thought that any guy I dated was watching it used to really hurt me. I used to feel like many women often say they feel, like I'm not enough. When I caught my ex-fiance watching porn after he told me hated it, I was completely devastated, I felt like ****. I couldn't believe he lied to me. I felt duped. 

It wasn't until I met my current H that I tried to think of it a little more objectively. I looked on several forums to get thoughts from men. I read some very rational explanations and they had nothing to do with their gf/wives not being enough. I read some articles on male sexuality. 

Our sex life was in a bit of rut a couple of years ago. That's when I started watching some instructional BJ videos that sort of opened the door. I wanted to spice up our sex life. I didn't feel confident in the bedroom, it felt like I wasn't good at BJs, based on my husband not having much reaction at all to them. That's when I started diving in a little more. At first, I had a similar response as you did. I felt repulsed and ashamed. The more I watched though, the less I felt insecure about it. I always thought porn was nothing more than hot women with amazing bodies being used like sex dolls, but after looking into it more there's so much variety in everything: body types, themes, etc. There are lots of videos that are geared to women too, where the couple is going slower, it's more romantic and more attention is being paid to the woman, etc. 

It wasn't until a year ago that I was even open to watching it with my H (we've been together almost 6). I would have never in a million years thought that I would ever be on board with that. But all it did was enhance the sex we had. My husband also shared the kinds of videos he likes. He's far more focused on the particular act than what the women look like. He's also encouraged me to put on what I like too (this took a lot of time to be comfortable with). I've also woken up to find him watching porn and decided to "help out" with a BJ. I always thought I would feel disgusted and used, but it actually felt empowering somehow. It led to some amazing sex. 

I think my initial reaction may have been a product of my strict upbringing, where sex/masturbation/porn were shameful. I now see it as just a tool, no different from a toy really. It is natural to enjoy looking at naked attractive people having sex. But again, this was a sloooow process for me. Our sex life is much better, not just because of porn (we only occasionally watch) but because we are now more open with our fantasies and our sexuality. And now my husband thinks I give amazing BJs :grin2:


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## Husbandsapprentice (Aug 14, 2016)

I think it turns you on to be devious. That in itself can be kind of a red ***.


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## Husbandsapprentice (Aug 14, 2016)

*sorry, flag!


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