# She says she doesn't love me anymore



## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

This is my first time ever engaging into anything like this. After reading many of the posts I figured I'd try my hand at spilling my guts. I feel a lot of comfort in reading other peoples stories and advice. Please, no name calling or talking viciously about my wife as I have seen in other posts.

History: We met when I was 17 and had just graduated HS, she was 16 and going to be a Junior. I quickly learned that she had an awful upbringing with physical and sexual abuse, foster homes, and pretty much everything terrible you can imagine could (or couldn't for that matter) happen to a little girl. We were truly in love at first sight. Unfortunately we were young and dumb and not smart enough to treat each other right. After a couple of years we eventually split up. She moved away and was out of my life for approximately 2 years. After a failed live-in relationship I became a terrible womanizer. Truth is, I couldn't be happy without her and thought about her all of the time.
One day she called me and my heart fell to the floor. We quickly rekindled feelings over the phone. She came to see me and I instantly became insanely in love all over. After spending a month together we decided to have a long distance relationship until we could figure out a permanent arrangement.

That night she was in a terrible car crash and one of the people in the car was killed. I went to be by her side in ICU and had never felt so much appreciation for life. In that one moment, I knew what it was like to live for another for the first time. She had multiple facial lacerations and had broken her neck, and could not have been more beautiful.

3 months later we were married. She held so much guilt and sorrow inside of her it's almost as if part of her had also died. 2 years later she became pregnant and we had our first child. We had always had a great and healthy sex life. She caught me looking at porn on the computer and watching some dvd's that we had. Each time she caught me it became a bigger deal. It was never a frequent thing, but on occasion I was dumb enough to look and would promise her I wouldn't do it again and I would.

She was very supportive of me in developing my career. I struggled to get hired, spending lots of time, money, and emotion. I became depressed. She caught me looking a porn again while she was pregnant and she threatened to leave me. She told me that when she was a child she was molested while the sick POS watched porn. We had our second child and because of her encouragement I continued to search for my desired job. I finally got my break and was hired. We moved 400 miles away. My poor wife was at home with a 3 year old and a newborn as I worked and was away for much of the first year. She became very depressed and began drinking heavily.

Finally we were able to live a traditional life and I was no longer required to travel. For the most part life was great. However She continued bouts of depression and heavy drinking. I became extremely focused on doing my job perfectly and I took too little interest in romancing my wife, although I never detached from our family or being a dad. I have noticed some trends in her behavior; she tends to become depressed around the anniversary of the crash (late August) and carries that into fall as the days get darker and shorter. She may tell me she's not in love with me anymore. Generally by Christmas she is slightly better, and by spring she showers me with love and tells me she is so sorry and she knows that she will always love me and couldn't be happier with our lives.

We endured many ups and downs. Over about a 3 year period she watched my computer usage and monitored my emails. On a few occasions I was sent nudy pictures of girls from friends that included jokes or similar. About 2 times she found them and was rightfully very upset with me. She started partying hard with friends and not coming home until the wee hours of the morning. After the tragic death of one of our close friends, our lives were thrown into a downward spiral. She began drinking even more and was clearly unhappy. I began suspecting she was fooling around on me. 

One night she was out and came home drunk. She passed out and I looked through her texts. I found that she had been texting with a guy and had went to meet him that night when he stood her up. I called the number and got a voicemail...it was a friend of mine. We reconciled and a short time later she went to rehab for alcoholism. She became a new person and seemed to free herself from many daemons. Things became good again. About 6 months later she started drinking again, heavily at times, and causally at times. Weeks before our 10 year anniversary I began to suspect she was cheating on me again. I validated it and she told me she had a tryst with him on a work trip although she swears they did not have sex. I confronted her and she promised it was nothing and it wouldn't happen anymore. Weeks later I caught her sexting with the same guy. After a few weeks we reconciled and things improved.

I had some problems at work and got into some trouble. For the first time we got phones with internet capability. This was a whole foreign new realm. Within the first days of having it I was so amazed that you could look at little internet sites that took forever to download. After looking up sports stuff and other junk just playing around, I looked up a porn site. I flipped through a few pages then started to feel tremendously guilty. I quickly shut it off and didn't think any more about it. Weeks later she was snooping through my phone and saw that I had been looking at porn. She hated me and I hated myself. She wanted me to move out and we began putting things in motion to try to do so. We went to counseling and eventually reconciled. 

Last year we moved into a wonderful house in a perfect neighborhood and felt like we got a fresh start. Life couldn't have been better, both of our jobs were going well and we have 2 perfect happy healthy children. She has continued to drink heavily at times, but doesn't really go out much and I have learned to live with it. We had a great spring and terrific summer. We have continued a healthy sex-life and are one of those creepy couples who say "I love you" a thousand times a day. 

2 weeks ago I went to bed early. I awoke at 1 in the morning hearing her loudly talking on the phone while she was drunk. She quickly hung up. I took her phone and saw she was talking to a guy she worked with in a different state. I read through her texts and found pages and pages of texts about seeing each other and pictures of him blowing her kisses. He told her he loved her. She said it was too soon. Several texts later she said "I'll break my own rules, I <3 you too, do you believe in fate?" I called her on it and she immediately said it was just a fling and they had only started 2 days prior. Unfortunately she was scheduled to fly to the city this guy lives in for a promotional interview and work meetings (or so she says). I quickly forbid her to go, but then decided that wouldn't help my family. I told her to go, because if she was really going to go through with it and be with him then we needed to be divorced anyway. 

She returned from the trip and has acted even stranger, although she swears they never even saw each other. Like so many of the others, I smothered her and begged for her to fix things. She says she loves me but is not in love with me. She says I betrayed her too much with my "porn addiction". She said she isn't sure if she loves him or not, but thinks she shouldn't be able to be smitten so easily and it's because I show her no special attention or romance. 

Throughout our marriage she has over-gifted all holidays and birthdays. She has almost always made a big deal about me and I have always fallen short on hers. I never forget, I just never do anything big or work to make her feel special. 

I’m sorry this is so long, I wish there was a cliff-notes version I could write, I actually deleted about ¼ of it already. So…. am I crazy? I want my wife back, I love her, and we’ve been married almost 13 years. We have 2 awesome kids who deserve a normal life. My parent’s got divorced when I was young; I grew up with vindictive BS and my parents playing games. I never had much and think my kids deserve better!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

It sounds like she's got a lot of unresolved issues from her past, and what do you mean when you say you "reconciled" after all her incidents? Did you deal with anything, or just sweep it under the rug?

Honestly, it seems like you're enabling her bad behavior, and she'll continue doing it because there's no consequences to it.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Watching porn does not equate to her cheating on you multiple times. Sorry but you should tell her to move out and show her some tough love you rugswept each one.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> This is my first time ever engaging into anything like this. After reading many of the posts I figured I'd try my hand at spilling my guts. I feel a lot of comfort in reading other peoples stories and advice. Please, no name calling or talking viciously about my wife as I have seen in other posts.
> 
> History: We met when I was 17 and had just graduated HS, she was 16 and going to be a Junior. I quickly learned that she had an awful upbringing with physical and sexual abuse, foster homes, and pretty much everything terrible you can imagine could (or couldn't for that matter) happen to a little girl. We were truly in love at first sight. Unfortunately we were young and dumb and not smart enough to treat each other right. After a couple of years we eventually split up. She moved away and was out of my life for approximately 2 years. After a failed live-in relationship I became a terrible womanizer. Truth is, I couldn't be happy without her and thought about her all of the time.
> One day she called me and my heart fell to the floor. We quickly rekindled feelings over the phone. She came to see me and I instantly became insanely in love all over. After spending a month together we decided to have a long distance relationship until we could figure out a permanent arrangement.
> ...


I understand why you dont want your wife bashed, she has been through some terrible things in her life and you seem to want to save her from it all. You have to understand that she has to conquer her own demons, you cant rescue her. She needs intensive therapy! I think you are too passive to put your foot down and demand she not talk to anyone else again or you'll leave. You're afraid of hurting her more because you want to be her saviour! Am I right?

The truth is that no matter what she has dealt with in her life it doesnt justify what she is doing over and over again to you and your children. She is going to keep doing it until you put a stop to it or until she deals with her demons.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Condensing this down:

1. You have a porn problem that you need to seek help with quitting (wouldn't deem this as an issue except you continued after your wife expressed discomfort).
2. Your wife may have a drinking problem (drinking heavily while taking care of two young children is not the way a reasonable person copes).
3. Your wife has had at least one emotional affair and possibly a physical affair.

I really wish people would stop throwing out the idea that divorce is more harmful than staying in an unhealthy marriage. I can tell you that seeing parents who behave like this in a marriage is a lot more toxic than seeing parents divorced, living separately and healthy. 

My two cents - you both need IC and MC. Complete transparency for you both (keyloggers/text/email passwords, etc.) in the meantime.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

There are many couples that look at porn in healthy marriages...She is using that one excuse to continuously cheat on you. Yet she is an alcoholic addict, continuously cheating on you. I don't think you have a porn addiction(based on your post), even though you have a porn problem in your marriage.

Offer to give up porn if she gives up the heavy drinking and see how she reacts..

Is the last guy married ? You need to find his wife and tell him if it is the case..


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## timeforchange (Nov 4, 2012)

No need to be sorry for what you've posted. Letting it out is much better than holding it in.

Everything seems to have happened so fast for you guys and there's a lot of toing and froing. The drinking, sexting and whole affairs are not helping at all even though I'm sure it's an escape for her. That's a lot of running away. Does watching porn help you escape too?

I think that you being the one that wants to solve it all the time isn't helping. I've learnt that it has to be BOTH of you agreeing and taking the action to making it happen. 

Perhaps separate support would be better and that's likely to take a lot of time. Speaking of which a time out might also be needed if you want a future as a healthier family. Try and look after yourself too - even though it might seem hard with all the responsibility you are taking on. 

How are your children reacting to it all?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't think you and your wife can begin to know where you stand until she stops drinking.

Her drinking colors everything about your relationship.

She is troubled, definitely, and your children deserve not to grow up in a house plagued by infidelity, but they foremost deserve to be free of an alcoholic parent.


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

I realized when I proofread how many times I said we reconciled PBear, however I decided I should leave those in in order to appropriately display how pathetic I am.

I agree my watching porn doesn't equate to real or "virtual affairs", however this is what she keeps saying when we talk about it. That I have hurt her so bad. Part of me thinks its total BS and it's an escape, the other part of me wonders if I truly have hurt her so bad. She still checks up on me all of the time, which I am okay with , I feel like I deserve that lack of trust in that area. Sadly I haven't checked up on her in years, and barely even have now! I just figure if I can't have some trust in her, then I shouldn't want to be married to her.

I don't think I want to be her savior LetDownNTX, I just feel like when you say I do, it's for real. I made a commitment to love her and be committed to her for life. I also take all of the BULL$hit and pile it in one hand, and take all of the GREAT and put it in the other, and the the GREAT is still heavier. I've told her many times that when there are more bad days than good days that's when I'll be done. Does that make sense?

TCSRedhead, I don't think I have a porn problem, but wanted to appropriately document my faults also. I didn't want to say "poor me, poor me, I am great and she is awful"! I know she has a drinking problem. She doesn't drink everyday, and functions appropriately in society. However she gets loaded all of the time for escape and self medication. One thing I did learn when she went to rehab was that I can't draw the line when she needs help with her drinking. I can, however, make sure that I take care of myself and set boundaries. That I have not done lately! I don't disagree that divorce can be a great thing. I however feel like I've kept sticking it out and sacrificing some in order to get through each of the bad times. Hence my asking "am I crazy?" I would be telling myself to run for the hills!!!

Warlock, I agree about the porn. However there is nothing to give up, I truly don't look at it. Haven't in a while. He's not married, according to my Facebook stalking of him, he just ended a substantial relationship in September. However, I don't blame him. Sounds pathetic, I know. Like I told her though, what kind of giant doucher goes after married women with families? He's obviously a POS!

Timeforchange, yes, you are correct, our lives have been a roller-coaster, but honestly, aren't all of ours? I think living with the ups and downs are what makes it a life. I learned a long time ago no one is perfect. Our kids are doing great and don't have a clue. I agree on IC's (learning the lingo), we've tried MC's but they always want to dig up old crap, every time I've left way more upset than before we walked in.

Thanks all for your quick answers, sad part is I am not a pathetic person in life. My job is very authoritative and I am very good at it. I always stand up for myself and try to live my life with conviction...accept when it comes to my wife. I cannot imagine a life without her!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> I don't think I want to be her savior LetDownNTX, I just feel like when you say I do, it's for real. I made a commitment to love her and be committed to her for life. I also take all of the BULL$hit and pile it in one hand, and take all of the GREAT and put it in the other, and the the GREAT is still heavier. I've told her many times that when there are more bad days than good days that's when I'll be done. Does that make sense?


I wonder how many more times she is going to crap on you before you realize she doesnt value you or she wouldnt keep doing it? Better or worse doesnt mean letting someone beat you down continually and doing nothing about it. You're the one that has to live in your life, so however you chose to live it, you have to be happy.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> I wonder how many more times she is going to crap on you before you realize she doesnt value you or she wouldnt keep doing it? Better or worse doesnt mean letting someone beat you down continually and doing nothing about it. You're the one that has to live in your life, so however you chose to live it, you have to be happy.


You may need some ic you sound extremely codependent if she has zero consequences for her actions she will cheat on you again sorry but it will happen.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

tom67 said:


> Watching porn does not equate to her cheating on you multiple times. Sorry but you should tell her to move out and show her some tough love you rugswept each one.


I was going to reply and then I read this post and this guy said exactly what I was going to say.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Timeforchange, yes, you are correct, our lives have been a roller-coaster, but honestly, aren't all of ours? I think living with the ups and downs are what makes it a life. I learned a long time ago no one is perfect. Our kids are doing great and don't have a clue. I agree on IC's (learning the lingo), we've tried MC's but they always want to dig up old crap, every time I've left way more upset than before we walked in.
> 
> *I cannot imagine a life without her!*


Ups and downs is due to health, financial and outside factors that affect the marriage. Your marriage is a train wreck that you should have ran away from long ago.

But that last sentence says it all and until you can let go of that, there is NO advice that is going to help you. None, nada, zilch, zero.

If you cannot let them go if they can't compromise, stop complaining and just suck it up and live with it.

When you give the OR ELSE ultimatum and it's an empty threat, go cry me a river. I'm being pretty harsh here but comon man, you complain but you won't do anything that will either stop what she's doing or leave the marriage to help yourself.

If I tell my kids or else and don't back it up, they just keep doing it again. If they're grounded, they're grounded (ok, ok, once in blue moon they flash me that smile and give me the I love you daddy with a kiss and I do give in). BTW, those are the only girls who can manipulate me!!!!!

I can live without my wife, parents, friends, etc...The only ones I can't live without would be my kids (well most of the time, like 99.9%, there is that .1% that creeps up once in a while).

I love them all but if they're not with me I can still function and live a happy life, meaning the wife/parents/friends. Friends and wife I can replace, parents are old now and I've long ago realized we all die one day so I'm not going to go all to pieces when they're gone. Love them all but I've got a life to live, especially with my kids.

LOL, damn that sounds pretty cold doesn't it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I have no advice for you my friend, the mistakes have already been made. The biggest mistake you made was letting her go on that trip. No matter what the benefits of that trip were to your family, I guarantee you she became physical with him while she was there. For me, this would be too difficult for me to recover from (she makes a planned trip to physically hook up) no matter what the other factors are.


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Hard to disagree with you guys. I know it's pathetic, I never in a million years could have imagined accepting adultery and trying to move on. I would probably kick my own a$$ if I had the chance. 

I am going to try IC, I had a bad experience when I was about 6 and my parents made me go during their divorce. I have gone to an IC 2 successful times before, once not long after we were married and trying to understand how to deal with things, and once a couple of years ago when I was stressed to the max and having problems with her, and work and wasn't feeling too good about myself.

We each went to IC's a couple of years ago when I looked at porn on my cell. FYI, he determined I didn't have an addiction to porn, but that I was a dumb a$$ for looking periodically. After a few sessions the 4 of us all met to talk as a group. HORRIBLE IDEA! Don't ever get sucked into that BS!

I know I need to ball-up. Unfortunately like so many others, separation doesn't seem affordable. I'm trying to figure out what to do.

Lastly, CHEATINGHUBBY, I completely agree with you about your feelings about your kids I don't think anyone could have put it any better. Please let me show you a different view point about divorce. We have a family of 4. All are of equal parts and no one is more or less valuable than the other. I can't divorce my kids if I get pissed at them, how can I divorce my wife? Obviously my kids are little, only 7 and 10, and maybe someday I will separate ties with a child after being burned by a drug addiction or thefts or some other terrible horror story that we hear all too often. But I guarantee you that day could only come after $hittons of years of abuse from them. I guarantee you I will fight for them or darn-near die trying. And that is how I feel about marriage!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> There are many couples that look at *porn in healthy marriages*...She is using that one excuse to continuously cheat on you. Yet she is an alcoholic addict, continuously cheating on you. I don't think you have a porn addiction(based on your post), even though you have a porn problem in your marriage.
> 
> Offer to give up porn if she gives up the heavy drinking and see how she reacts..
> 
> Is the last guy married ? You need to find his wife and tell him if it is the case..


I completely agree with the rest except for *the bolded part* above.
She complained about the porn way before she crossed any boundaire. It's in OP's first post. While porn is not a big deal for some it's for many others. She triggers the sexual abuse with porn. OP knows, he gives sh1t anyway. Own it, man. She was not cheating when she confessed the abuse and the link to porn. The fact OP has not a porn addiction is irrelevant. As a matter of fact it make his use even worse. It's a about taking into acount seriously something which actually hurts his wife.

Of course, she now uses porn to justify her cheating, the same whay she'd use whatever excuse at hand. For the cheating, the alcoholism... they always shift the blame.

IC for both, MC too.
Bundaires.
But before tring to fix the marriage or even commit to it you need to kill this affair NOW. If not you won't have the chance to decide, the marriage won't enjoy that opportunity. She doesn't need to "love you" for now. She needs to commit to end the affair. NOW.

So demand the basics:
NC letter.
Complete transparence.
Complete disclosure to your satisfaction. Of this affair and old transgressions (I'm sure there're more).
IC, MC.

Just one more thing. Alcoholics cheat. It's a fact. The questions is not "if" but "when" and "how often". They use affairs to self medicate, to numb themselves the same way the use alcohol. Inner turmoil, lack of coping skills....


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'll say this just once more & then I'll get off this thread & leave you alone.

Trying to fix things with your wife without getting her off the alcohol is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Your W will be a very different person when she completely stops drinking & it is this person, this sober person, that you want to have as a spouse.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I'll say this just once more & then I'll get off this thread & leave you alone.
> 
> Trying to fix things with your wife without getting her off the alcohol is like putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound.
> 
> Your W will be a very different person when she completely stops drinking & it is this person, this sober person, that you want to have as a spouse.


:iagree:
Not only that. Sher needs whay more than stopping drinking. She needs to enter in to recovery.
Even when she's not drinking she's a dry drunk.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Acabado said:


> :iagree:
> Not only that. Sher needs whay more than stopping drinking. She needs to enter in to recovery.
> Even when she's not drinking she's a dry drunk.


:iagree: I'm done here too!


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Lastly, CHEATINGHUBBY, I completely agree with you about your feelings about your kids I don't think anyone could have put it any better. Please let me show you a different view point about divorce. We have a family of 4. All are of equal parts and no one is more or less valuable than the other. I can't divorce my kids if I get pissed at them, how can I divorce my wife?


Because she took vows with you and broke them...badly. She has to earn her place in the family, same as you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Your life seems too sad a serial alcoholic cheater wife and a helpless husband who is too passive to stay strong and set boundaries.

She is lucky to have a so forgiving husband. She can easily manipulate you by saying you hurt her by looking porn so she can bang someone on your back. wah.

Actually what is your problem you always forgiven her infidelity, she never faced any consequences. Why cant you do the same this time also and move on with your life?

When one cheats there are is only three options.
1.Divorce her asss and kick her out of the home. You cant do this as you cannot d your children how can you D your wife? I like your logic very much.
2.Repair, for that cheating spouse should be truly remorseful and own up their crap without blame shifting. Your wife is not, so R is impossible unless she is truly remorseful.
3. maintain the status quo. you forgive her and move on with your life as if nothing happened. You always did this. so why cant you do it this time also hoping she will stop cheating and drinking.

One more thing, you took vow never means she can cuckold you or treat you like a POS and you should take it with a smile. Taking vow is a divine and sane thing don't blame it or seek it as an excuse for your failure to act.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Some people are too damaged to be in a marriage.

She endured horrible things, but her cheating is not your fault.

You taking her back or "reconciling" about 5 times certainly is your fault though. She told you numerous times according to you that she no longer loved you. Perhaps it was not the depression of the accident talking and she truly no longer loved you even back then.


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## MiriRose (Mar 12, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> I guarantee you I will fight for them or darn-near die trying. And that is how I feel about marriage!


Heartsick ~ I am encouraged by your commitment to your marriage in the midst of the setbacks and difficulties you've faced in your relationship with your wife. That seems to be a rarity these days! I'm so sorry to hear about the painful circumstances you both endured as children, and I hope that you've been able to address some of those issues through counseling. 

As far as your wife saying she doesn't love you anymore, there is a broadcast from Focus on the Family that addresses this very situation: "When Your Spouse Says 'I Don't Love You Anymore'" is available on their website -- I hope you'll consider listening. Since I work with Focus, I'm aware that they also have a number of helpful resources for those that are facing serious issues in their marriages. In addition to the marriage articles on their site, they also have phone counselors that can speak with you at no cost. 

Speaking with one of their counselors about problems I was having in my own marriage a few years back was so helpful, and I continue to see positive changes in my relationship with my husband. We've been married 13 years, also.  

I have said a prayer for you and your family, and I hope that things begin to turn around for the better very soon. God bless you!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Stop even discussing the porn. She's latched onto that as an excuse for why you are someone it's ok to cheat on. 

And she's cheated repeatedly and continuously it seems for most you marriage.

Stop validating that excuse, because its total BS.

You don't need IC for porn. What you need is a wife who steps up being faithful, and accepts responsibility for her deliberate choice to cheat.

Your wife is also an alcoholic.

And yes, she met up with and had sex with that guy. You should have flown there and caught her with him. It would have help you.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Your screen name tells me a lot about your self image. 

Change it to something like 'World's Greatest Catch' and see how differently that makes you feel. (Hell, I got a rush just typing it.)


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

BALLS!!! I was hoping all of you were the key to success and happiness. Well, I was wrong, or all of you suck! I assume I was wrong.

She told me today that she doesn't love me, hasn't for 10 years, and talks to AH (again, not quite down with the lingo, AH = A$$ Hole) about 5 times a day. She didn't realize how unhappy she was until my son told her he hadn't seen her so happy before, after she laughed out loud one day. She told me if we were any better off financially she would have left me already.

She refuses IC or MC, because I said no long ago. I did refuse MC many years ago, but we have done both in the last 5 years. Is she merely refusing on account of her being called on her $hit??? I think so.

Worst thing is, she keeps saying I am bringing this on her and on us. That my "porn addiction" (not denying I was a **** and looked at $hit I was asked not too!") is worse than me "sticking my penis in someone else." She says me sleeping with someone else would have been far less egregious. Obviously that is BULL-$hit and blame shifting. Does that mean she has slept with someone and is trying to make it less consequential?

So here is the hard part, 2 months ago, life was great, we truly are best friends and share so many good times. She also admits that we are best friends and that we love each other. But she says is not in love with me and feels like I am equal to her molesting step-dad with the porn. It's like a shot straight to the balls! Part of me thinks this is true and she truly feels horribly betrayed by me, the other part thinks that it's all just blame shift.

I hate who I have become, I'm not sure I respect myself anymore!


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Worst thing is, she keeps saying I am bringing this on her and on us. That my "porn addiction" (not denying I was a **** and looked at $hit I was asked not too!") is worse than me "sticking my penis in someone else." *She says me sleeping with someone else would have been far less egregious.* Obviously that is BULL-$hit and blame shifting. Does that mean she has slept with someone and is trying to make it less consequential?
> 
> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> ...


:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:

So what is your plan now.
Do you have any plan?


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Sometimes you have to let your best friend go.

This is one of those times man. Sorry.

Respect yourself...pretty easy at its core...just act the way you want to be (I know...not easy). Her comparison of watching porn against her wishes to molesting her as a child is disturbing. She either hates porn 1000% worse than you've stated, or you watch 1000% times as much as you've stated, or she's using it as a cross to nail you to in order to justify her decision to end the marriage, perhaps try to embarrass you with friends and family.

Either way she's made herself clear. Move on, you'll do fine. But don't beg or plead your case with her at this point. Let her go...good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

And if you took a survey asking "Which is worse: your spouse watches porn more than you'd like, or your spouse is actually f**king some other person?"...don't see many going with option A.

Her "I haven't loved you in 10 years" is merely rewriting...rewriting the marital history in her favor to justify to others why things went south, with minimal damage to her rep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She's telling you where she is... full of it.
LET. HER. GO.

Tell her she doesn't need to demonize you anymore, she doesn't need to make up lies in her head. You release her of that burden. You got the message. There's no bridge anymore.

Send her to OM's with all her stuff and a smile in your face.

Divorce her.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

heartsickpuppy said:


> I just feel like when you say I do, it's for real. I made a commitment to love her and be committed to her for life.


Random thoughts...

I agree with what you said above. Your certainly talking the talk. But it's just lip speak. If you step back and look at the truth, you would realize your actions contradict this commitment, and these values you claim to live by.

Listen clearly... YOUR WIFE IS AN ADDICT AND I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE ALCOHOL. SHE IS ON DRUGS. VIRTUALLY ALL OF HER BEHAVIORS AND ALL OF THIS TOTAL HORSESH*T SHE IS SAYING IS "FOG". 

If you meant what you have said above, you would know that the commitment you claim to live by means that you will do what is right for HER. What she needs is for you to be strong and recognize what is happening right now. Stop playing her games! They are addict games, gaslighting, rationalizing, justifying, blameshifting, etc..etc..etc... 

She needs consequences and she need you to be her rock. Your commitment means you are commited to doing what is right by her regardless of the cost to you. Get your head out of your a$$ and stop playing this game with her. For your kids and for your wife, find some strength and open your eyes... Look at the forrest, forget the trees.


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Kallan, I don't know what I'm going to do. That is a great question. Things have gotten far more intriguing. We have had some dialog. She told me she doesn't really compare me to her molesting step-father but was upset and was trying to be hurtful. She told me she is talking to the guy 5 x a day. She is flying out to his city again for another promotional interview. She leaves Friday morning and comes back Monday morning. Yah right!!! Weird ass job interview for banking huh? I know I am retarded, I am clearly not that bad.

I really like your thoughts Pit. I guess I've know this all along. What are your suggestions?

Thanks to all for your input. I definitely am in quite the pickle, and am valuing a sounding board.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Kallan, I don't know what I'm going to do. That is a great question. Things have gotten far more intriguing. We have had some dialog. She told me she doesn't really compare me to her molesting step-father but was upset and was trying to be hurtful. She told me she is talking to the guy 5 x a day. She is flying out to his city again for another promotional interview. She leaves Friday morning and comes back Monday morning. Yah right!!! Weird ass job interview for banking huh? I know I am retarded, I am clearly not that bad.
> 
> I really like your thoughts Pit. I guess I've know this all along. What are your suggestions?
> 
> Thanks to all for your input. I definitely am in quite the pickle, and am valuing a sounding board.


So are you going to verify this interview or are you just going to sit back and let it happen? What kind of interview would be on the weekend for a bank? If the interview was Friday during the day then she could easily come home on Saturday morning! Such lies!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

heartsickpuppy said:


> I really like your thoughts Pit. I guess I've know this all along. What are your suggestions?


I always hold out hope that maybe i'll be wrong someday, that being said...

I'll be brutally honest with you...

My suggestions don't matter because you aren't ready. You have a lot of pain and a lot more games to play before you can detach yourself well enough to see this for what it is and do what gives you the best opportunity to save this marriage. 

Let me tell you a secret that you wont figure out until you look back in this someday... When your finally ready to take the actions that could have saved your marriage, it will be too late. It won't be because you found strength, it will be because you found detachment. 

You honestly won't be emotionaly invested like you are today. Your view of her will change, and you won't be comprimised by your own fear. The game will change and the tables will swing. 

You'll likely try again at some point, maybe sweep some more under 'the rug'. Maybe fool yourselves into the idea of 'starting fresh'. But, the damage is in there, the malignancy will grow. Your soul wont be invested and the cycle will repeat. Maybe she cheats again, maybe you do. Whatever the case.... Everyday the luggage of this betrayal, and the evidence of the damage will become more evident... The shadow of whats left of your marriage will deteriorate, rot from the inside out, slowly die... till there is nothing. This is what happens on the path your fear is forcing you to stay on...

You want to change that? Then you look deep and see if you can find a hero in there somewhere. Commit. Really commit. See this for what it is and do not waver. Your getting solid advice in principle from lots of people here, they want to help you. Help yourself and listen to them. or don't. Up to you.

Good luck.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Interview my a$$. Your wife has a out if twin trip with her OM.

Interviews do not work that way. Ever.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Interview my a$$. Your wife has a out if twin trip with her OM.
> 
> Interviews do not work that way. Ever.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

She having an A with OM and going there for interview means she is making plan to meet him. Lovers dont meet for chatting and coffee but for banging their heads out.
I agree with Pit that one day you will realise that along with her infidelity your passiveness towards her doings lead to the death of your marriage.


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks guys, well things took an even more interesting turn. Last night after she had unlocked her phone I grabbed it and was able to see her conversation with him. They told each other how much in love with one another they were and couldn't wait to see each other.

Writing is all over the wall, I'm not stupid. She again starts telling me everything is actually my fault and she hasn't been happy with me for 10 years. She tells me that she's going to move to OM's city and be making more money and be happy. She tells me that because I work shift work I can't take the kids because no judge would allow that to fly. She said she'll take the kids down there for school and I can have them in the summers and at Christmas.

She starts yelling at me and telling me it's over. Our 10 year old daughter overhears and starts crying. My wife starts telling her we are okay and everything is going to be fine. My daughter asks about divorce multiple times. I couldn't take it anymore. I couldn't stand hearing my wife lie to my daughter. So I went in and told her we were getting a D. My daughter is inconsolable. My wife starts yelling at me saying that she couldn't believe I said that. That it was unfair because we hadn't made any final decisions and what I did was unfair. Then my 7 year old son comes in, so I told him too. I was over-the-top amicable and said it was both of our decisions. I never once pushed any blame on her. I don't think I have ever cried so hard in my entire life!

So now my wife is pissed and says I had no right to tell them we were getting D without talking to her first. What a friggin' night, huh?

So she left this morning for her weekend get-away with OM. She tries to hug me before she left. When I told her I didn't want to touch her anymore she says "What if I die in a plane crash?" Holy F&ck, seriously????? Who am I married to?


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Get a lawyer ASAP.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Thanks guys, well things took an even more interesting turn. Last night after she had unlocked her phone I grabbed it and was able to see her conversation with him. They told each other how much in love with one another they were and couldn't wait to see each other.
> 
> Writing is all over the wall, I'm not stupid. She again starts telling me everything is actually my fault and she hasn't been happy with me for 10 years. She tells me that she's going to move to OM's city and be making more money and be happy. She tells me that because I work shift work I can't take the kids because no judge would allow that to fly. She said she'll take the kids down there for school and I can have them in the summers and at Christmas.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry this is happening to you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you did the right thing. Well, except that you should have physically torn up the plane tickets and prevented her from going. But anyway, it's FAR past time to end the gas lighting and rug sweeping. It's far past time to call a lawyer, get the ball rolling and have her served. I give this marriage about a 1% chance. And that 1% is only if you file for divorce. If you don't file right away, I'd give it a 0% chance.

Is the phone in your name? It's Friday, not too late to cancel her phone service. I'd also take all of the the money out of the checking account. Not to keep for yourself. You can have it as cash sitting in the kitchen. Just make sure that when she tries to use her debit card that it's declined. Don't make things easy for her. Start making the affair as uncomfortable as possible. Does the other man work for the same company? Notify HR. Is the OM married? Find and notify his wife. Expose her to her parents. Post that you want her to stop the affair on her facebook wall.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Thanks guys, well things took an even more interesting turn. Last night after she had unlocked her phone I grabbed it and was able to see her conversation with him. They told each other how much in love with one another they were and couldn't wait to see each other.
> 
> Writing is all over the wall, I'm not stupid. She again starts telling me everything is actually my fault and she hasn't been happy with me for 10 years. She tells me that she's going to move to OM's city and be making more money and be happy. She tells me that because I work shift work I can't take the kids because no judge would allow that to fly. She said she'll take the kids down there for school and I can have them in the summers and at Christmas.
> 
> ...


I will not speak my first thought, although its probably just as bad that its in my head!

She is the one that brought up divorce, its her fault the kids know the TRUTH now. She is lucky that you didnt tell them the full truth! I know they are too young to know but people tell kids alot of things they dont need to know when they are hurt and upset.

How on earth are you able to take care of the kids this weekend if you work shift work? She's not worried about that is she?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

inform the company



> I had no right to tell them we were getting D without talking to her first.


the decision to divorce is yours, not hers. you will divorce her even if she decides not to.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think you did the right thing. Well, except that you should have physically torn up the plane tickets and prevented her from going. But anyway, it's FAR past time to end the gas lighting and rug sweeping. It's far past time to call a lawyer, get the ball rolling and have her served. I give this marriage about a 1% chance. And that 1% is only if you file for divorce. If you don't file right away, I'd give it a 0% chance.
> 
> Is the phone in your name? It's Friday, not too late to *cancel her phone service*. I'd also *take all of the the money out of the checking account.* Not to keep for yourself. You can have it as cash sitting in the kitchen. Just make sure that when she tries to use her debit card that it's declined. Don't make things easy for her. Start making the affair as uncomfortable as possible. Does the other man work for the same company? Notify HR. *Is the OM married? Find and notify his wife. Expose her to her parents. Post that you want her to stop the affair on her facebook wall.*


Definitely do all of these, as soon as possible. Then, talk to an attorney today.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Holy F&ck, seriously????? Who am I married to?


Your not listening.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Exposé to the world what they are doing, post both of them on cheaterville.com, Call and report to family, especially hers that she has left to have a sex weekend with the OM.

Move money out of joint accounts AND cancel joint credit cards. Today. Do not wait until next week.

Is the cell phone plan in your name? If so either cancel her phone or have its number moved to a new phone that is in your possession.


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> How on earth are you able to take care of the kids this weekend if you work shift work? She's not worried about that is she?


Sadly this probably makes it even worse. I broke my neck 7 years ago and have had problems ever since. I finally had disc replacement surgery about 6 1/2 weeks ago. So I have been off work since then. I have a few more months to recover before I go back to work. Here's where it gets worse, I didn't mention this before because I hadn't really thought it through. The first few weeks of my recovery was awful I didn't sleep much, and spent about 20 hours a day in the recliner. I don't like drugs, so it's not like I was a zombie. But I clearly was not being my normal self. At first she took good care of me. Within the first 2 weeks or so that started to fade. I tried to be respectful and thankful for her care of me (btw-it's not like she had to wipe my butt). So because of my medical situation, we went days between kisses and hugs. We've had sex 2 times since surgery (but not since I discovered OM), but both were just more for maintenance, and without making love. I assume this is why she went seeking OM, or at the least made herself available to him. She does have bouts of very low self esteem and had always required reassurance. And as i mentioned in an earlier post, This coincided with her normal downtrodden time as a result of her crash. Maybe I could have done more, but this now seems like a wake-up call for me as to how she can detach herself from me so easily when I am vulnerable. A person with a normal frame of mind should seek fulfillment from another when their partner is vulnerable!

Yes I know she is an alcoholic. I also have been to Alanon meetings and did get some value out of them. I agree totally boogie, they are easy to scar at this age. I feel like I have a leg up in this department because I went through my parent's divorce at 7 yo. As I said before, I remember years of inappropriate comments and slander. That mostly came to a end 5 years ago at Thanksgiving dinner with friends and family. My mom started bashing my dad and I had my fill. I went off on her telling her to get over it, they had been D more than 20 years, she had been remarried, D, then remarried again for more than 12. I didn't think it was fair to her husband and I sure as hell didn't think my kids needed to hear useless slander about their Grandpa. She didn't talk to me for a few weeks. Things are fine now, and she very rarely says anything bad about my dad anymore. I WILL NEVER BASH THERE MOM NO MATTER WHAT. Believe me, it's tempting to tell them the truth about their mom and OM! But not now, probably not ever. They love her and they should. She is a person, she is their mother!

I will call the lawyer today and set D in motion (she is a good friend of mine and knows some of our history). Here are my problems and fears:

1. OM lives 700 miles away. According to a txt from her yesterday afternoon, she was offered the job she interviewed for, nearly doubling her salary, that job is there. I can't bear the thought of not seeing my kids at least weekly, it's maddening to me. What if she has them even half of the time? 

2. I will likely have to quit my job and move there in order to be closer. I don't want to sound selfish, but I am in year 7 of a 20 year pension. That's really hard to make up!!! I am only 35, so if I did this, I could start a new career there and still retire at a decent age. Is this selfish for me to think like this?

3. Finances, finances, finances??? So many of us live paycheck to paycheck. How have some of you made the transition work? Obviously we make sacrifices in order to provide for our children, and that's a no-brainer. 

4. HOLY SH!T I'm getting divorced! Are you proud of me pit?

5. How do you guys deal with the fear of the unknown for your children? I want to protect them, I don't want Fvcking douche bag giving my son advice about girls, or hugging my daughter when she gets her heart broken for the first time.

Thanks peep's!


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

boogie110 said:


> Your wife is addicted to this other man.


Also excellent perspective that I neglected to mention Boogie. I think chaos makes her feel ALIVE! No matter what the outcome, she can't seem to justify risk versus rewards, never really has been able to. She isn't a serial spender or anything, but has many times she'll buy something, or what to buy something and try to justify it by saying "It's on sale" or "It's such a good deal". I always have to say "But the fact that we don't have the money, makes the cost irrelevant."


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks to reading another post, I just used find Iphone and showed by her GPS she is a OM's as we speak. This after telling me she was at the hotel and going to be "escorted around the city to see the sights" by company recruiters!


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

I want to puke, THIS IS MY LIFE!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Why would you let her move away and take the kids? I have never heard of a state that allows one parent to move more than 100 miles away after a divorce.

There are websites for divorcing dads, stand up for your kids and let your cheating wife kiss your ass.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Thanks to reading another post, I just used find Iphone and showed by her GPS she is a OM's as we speak. This after telling me she was at the hotel and going to be "escorted around the city to see the sights" by company recruiters!


Text her you are going to see a lawyer. Haven't you exposed this posom yet?

Put him on cheaterville.com

If you don't put your nice guy BS behind you, you will have nothing left.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Divorce Advice for Men and Fathers | Men and Divorce | Cordell and Cordell | DadsDivorce.com


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Infidelity Statistics

Go here and email her this so she will have something to think about, especially where there is nearly a 100% failure rate for relationships that starts with cheating.

Also go here to Turnera's post about 14 posts down, its long, and send this to her too.
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ted-affair-asked-separation-moved-out-95.html


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Thanks Chap, looking now


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Work with your lawyer to put a fast halt to her moving the kids away. They are in their home, their schools etc. She may want to be 700 miles away, but they stay put.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Feeding you crap about where she is and what she's doing on her "business" trip...ouch, know what that's like.

Please kick her out when she gets back. Better yet, send a bottle of champagne to the OM's place addressed to both of them, with a note saying "Congratulations on your new life together! Your crap is packed and sitting by the front door when you get home."

Sorry this is where you're at, but you have to let her have it sometime, given the amount of deception she's leveling towards you. Good luck...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

So, she's had her weekend with her boyfriend, probably banging her brains out. What she doesn't know is I have to tools to see where she is on her trip. Amazingly she is at his house at 11-12 at night, and again a 7-8 in the morning, although she says she is at the hotel an "I am not a *****!" every time I ask if she's stayed at his house or he at the hotel. Which of course tells me SHE HAS SLEPT WITH HIM!

I talked to my layer yesterday, SHE said 2 words "fvckin b!tch!" Enough said. 

I will be formally separating on Tuesday (Veterans Day tomorrow). I talked to my dad this morning and got an amazing amount of support. History-my dad was a terrible dad when I was a kid, I remember 1 hug (senior year football parents night) and I never remember him telling me he loved me. When I became an adult we reconnected and have had a great relationship now where we talk 3 times a month for 90 minutes plus, I feel like we are great friends in a father-son way if that makes sense. Well, obviously we are all over-emotional but don't like to tell everyone or we wouldn't be hiding on a website, but my dad told me he loved me today. It really meant a lot. Sad that it has come to this, but you know what, I'll take it and so here I am.

My dad offered to help me financially if need be. I'll be fine after D, but the in between and separate residences is going to be a killer. I will open a separate bank account and start splitting things up ASAP.

What are some of your experiences with kicking her a$$ out? She says "It's my house too, you can't tell me to leave."

How about handling the children during separation?

What about cohabitation, I know this is a bad idea, but I'd like to hear some stories.

Lastly, wtf am I missing?????

Oh and BLUUUUUUAAAAAAAAHHHHHRRRRRG! Yes, that was me throwing up! JK, I think I'm in a good place. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't sad. But I am not mad. I have 2 AMAZING kids that I have to be thinking about right now! I took a green sticky note and put it in the bathroom mirror, it says "EVERYTHING YOU DO will affect your children's lives from this day forward!"


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You can't kick her out, but you can pack her bags with all her clothes and sit them outside the front door. 

You can kick her out of your bedroom,


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

You need to get something on paper soon before she accepts the job and tries to take the kids with her. Heck....why dont you tell her to accept the job, leave the kids with you and she can pay child support since she's going to be doubling her salary!

Happy to hear that your dad told you ILY, being a person with a crappy relationship with my dad I know how meaningful that would be to hear those words from him!

Read the 180 rules and do them when she gets back. Something tells me she isnt going to leave the house and its going to be hard with her there!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

heartsickpuppy said:


> 4. HOLY SH!T I'm getting divorced! Are you proud of me pit?


I'm not sure what that means, but no, I'm not proud of you. The same as I'm not 'proud' of people who find themselves drafted into a war and have to kill or be killed. It's a sad and unfortunate situation you find yourself in, but that doesn't change anything and sympathy won’t help you. It is what it is. You do what gives you the best chance of surviving. We have all been there and no one envies your position.

What I’ve seen happen from here as with most things involving DS’s, is fairly predictable. While it can turn in a couple directions and might be complicated by the job related relocation she _claims_ to be considering, the most common thing Ive seen is that she will be stricken with a sudden attack of consciousness and guilt and she will come back from her sex-a-thon and offer to 'save the marriage'. This will obviously be under her terms. 

After a smidge of reluctance, Most BS’s will quickly fold to some tears and apologies... They start the false "R" dance for awhile, and usually disappear from here for periods of time... 

Assuming she really tries NC and isn’t just regrouping after your exposure threw a wrench into her master plan, It generally takes a few weeks for the dopamine withdrawal to kick in or for Mr. Wonderful to reach out to her... 

She may or may not have gotten better at hiding the continued contact. Regardless, BS pseudo-reconciliation bliss will aid your denial skills... So it’s subjective how long this part of the dance goes on. Most BS’s do admit that deep down, they still _felt_ something wasn’t right... but they didn’t _want_ to believe it and with some gaslighting from DS., dismissed it. Then it’s Wash, rinse, repeat... Wash, rinse, repeat.

I hope I'm dead wrong.


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## Hope Springs Eternal (Oct 6, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> You need to get something on paper soon before she accepts the job and tries to take the kids with her. Heck....why dont you tell her to accept the job, leave the kids with you and she can pay child support since she's going to be doubling her salary!
> 
> Happy to hear that your dad told you ILY, being a person with a crappy relationship with my dad I know how meaningful that would be to hear those words from him!
> 
> Read the 180 rules and do them when she gets back. Something tells me she isnt going to leave the house and its going to be hard with her there!


Look at you giving 180 advice. You've changed!


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Can you give me a link to 180. And no sex-a-thon fake R for me Pit. I mean it, I am done! Don't get me wrong, I am sad beyond belief. However I have very little anger, which I think is good. It's amazing how much better I feel knowing that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She has affairs, she lies, she drinks so heavily that she accidentally outs herself to her loving husband.

But you look at porn, so your 'problem' trumps all of her problems. No. it doesn't.


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## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

Follow the link Recovering From Affairs: 180 - Handy Reminder


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The Healing Heart: The 180


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

2 nights ago was great, we had productive discussion for the first time. Last night sucked, she said she was too emotional and didn't want to talk. Then she kept texting me (I was in the bedroom) and trying to provoke conflict. She became increasingly rude because of course she was drinking.

She finally fell asleep. I slept better last night than I have since this all started. We started talking at 5:00 this morning and again had productive discussion. She apologized and agreed not to drink at the house anymore-yah right! but if I get a few level headed days out of her I will be happy.

She wants to try to do the D on our own without Attorneys. She has agreed not to try to take the kids if she moves. If we do it all ourselves and have court ordered arrangements for the children, is this okay? I see it as a better way to stay amicable for as long as possible. Am I crazy?


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> 2 nights ago was great, we had productive discussion for the first time. Last night sucked, she said she was too emotional and didn't want to talk. Then she kept texting me (I was in the bedroom) and trying to provoke conflict. She became increasingly rude because of course she was drinking.
> 
> She finally fell asleep. I slept better last night than I have since this all started. We started talking at 5:00 this morning and again had productive discussion. She apologized and agreed not to drink at the house anymore-yah right! but if I get a few level headed days out of her I will be happy.
> 
> She wants to try to do the D on our own without Attorneys. She has agreed not to try to take the kids if she moves. If we do it all ourselves and have court ordered arrangements for the children, is this okay? I see it as a better way to stay amicable for as long as possible. Am I crazy?


I would recommend a mediator or attorney during a divorce. It is nearly impossible to keep emotions out of the mix and work things out fairly with these kind of circumstances.

It's likely she wants this because of the concerns that you may end up on the better end of the deal financially and with the kids than she will with her drinking and behavior. Document, document, document everything - drunken texting shows how she behaves in the presence of those kids.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> 2 nights ago was great, we had productive discussion for the first time. Last night sucked, she said she was too emotional and didn't want to talk. Then she kept texting me (I was in the bedroom) and trying to provoke conflict. She became increasingly rude because of course she was drinking.
> 
> She finally fell asleep. I slept better last night than I have since this all started. We started talking at 5:00 this morning and again had productive discussion. She apologized and agreed not to drink at the house anymore-yah right! but if I get a few level headed days out of her I will be happy.
> 
> She wants to try to do the D on our own without Attorneys. She has agreed not to try to take the kids if she moves. If we do it all ourselves and have court ordered arrangements for the children, is this okay? I see it as a better way to stay amicable for as long as possible. Am I crazy?



If you do the paperwork yourself and can agree on everything, it will save you money. It will still be legal and binding as far as the arrangements with the kids are concerned. I dont know how it would work "if she moved". I think that she would have to give you full custody of the children from the beginning so that down the road she couldnt take them (by having shared custody in the court order). Look at the divorce laws in your state! There is plenty of information online to learn from.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Talk to a lawyer anyway.
Document her drinking, tape her, pictures...


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Talk to a lawyer anyway.
> Document her drinking, tape her, pictures...


Absolutely! Save all her texts too. Be prepared for last minute changes. A lawyer should look over any agreement. Talk to one for guidance before you agree to anything.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

HeartSick

You sound like a smart guy so start thinking like one.

Stick with an Attorney. Your wife has lied and continues to lie.

Your kids are at stake.

The D could very well be in your favor with her moving out of state, living with POSOM, making more money than you so why on earth would you listen to her.

Lawyer up and have your Dad help if you need it.

And when it comes to the kids schedules definitely use an attorney.

Your wife is in the Affair fog.

Her first priority is herself. Her 2nd priority is POSOM.m
Her third priority is n the kids. You are not on the list.

So wise up. Nice guys in your position finish last. If your attorney thinks she is a ***** then use that attorney.

Because your cheating wife's head is up her ass and your kids need you now more than ever.

So get tough and be strong in dealing with her.

HM64


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> 2 nights ago was great, we had productive discussion for the first time. Last night sucked, she said she was too emotional and didn't want to talk. Then she kept texting me (I was in the bedroom) and trying to provoke conflict. *She became increasingly rude because of course she was drinking.*
> 
> She finally fell asleep. I slept better last night than I have since this all started. We started talking at 5:00 this morning and again had productive discussion. *She apologized and agreed not to drink at the house anymore*-yah right! but if I get a few level headed days out of her I will be happy.
> 
> *She wants to try to do the D on our own without Attorneys.* *She has agreed not to try to take the kids if she moves.* If we do it all ourselves and have court ordered arrangements for the children, is this okay? *I see it as a better way to stay amicable for as long as possible. Am I crazy?*


Dear hsp,

Yes, you're crazy. Your objective should be to get the best possible outcome from the divorce (especially regarding child custody), not to keep things "amicable" with a woman who is cheating on you and ruining her family.

You need a GOOD divorce attorney to ensure that your interests are protected, again, especially on the child custody issue. If you do this on your own, you are almost certainly going to come out in a worse (and possibly disastrous) place. Why else do think your W wants to keep lawyers out of it?

You have a huge advantage in a divorce proceeding -- your W is an alcoholic. To use this advantage to the fullest, you need a lawyer's help. If you get it, you just may end up getting primary custody and your W might even be required to pay child support. If you don't, she will almost certainly get custody, you will be paying child support and, someday, your W may take your kids to another state and you will be screwed.

Also, you will gain an advantage if YOU file for divorce on grounds of infidelity. Don't throw this away.

Best of luck.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Find the best divorce lawyer ASAP. If her new job is long distance away from the marital residence she has just about zero chance of taking the kids with her. That's counting that you do actually find s lawyer and start the proceedings BEFORE she heads out to the new city. If you let her walk all over you and not stand up for yourself, get ready to be a weekend dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Also since she simply doesn't care about your feelings, why don't you call her and ask what she's doing at the OMs address? That'll ruin her day somewhat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

Update. She has decided against leaving state for OM. She is moving into her own place on 12/3, our anniversary, lucky #13. 50/50 time with kids. We tentatively divided up household items. I volunteered to help her pay for her cell phone and insurance for the time being. I make about a third more than her, and told her I expected to pay child support. She was flabbergasted and said absolutely not.

I want to stay amicable, I still love her and always will. I want to be the perfect divorced couple-yes I am crazy. 

So it sounds like 1 lawyer can be a smart option.

I know she has lied and cheated about everything this far. You guys are right, we definitely need to at least have 1 atty, if not my own.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

And you believe her? 
She didn't talk to her man out-of-state? Didn't come up with a bogus plan to 'move across town'? 

Check your hip pocket she may have lifted your wallet while telling you this fairy tale.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Update. She has decided against leaving state for OM. She is moving into her own place on 12/3, our anniversary, lucky #13. 50/50 time with kids. We tentatively divided up household items. I volunteered to help her pay for her cell phone and insurance for the time being. I make about a third more than her, and told her I expected to pay child support. She was flabbergasted and said absolutely not.
> 
> I want to stay amicable, I still love her and always will. I want to be the perfect divorced couple-yes I am crazy.
> 
> ...


Dear hsp,

You need YOUR OWN lawyer. If you and your W use the same lawyer, he has to represent you both, which means he can't give you (or your W) advice about what is best for you. Basically, all he can do is explain your options and follow your instructions. I know this because I'm a lawyer.

Be smart. Get yourself a good lawyer, not only for yourself but for your kids' sake.

Best.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

GET YOURSELF A LAWYER

put in a morality clause in the separation agreement that members of the opposite sex are not permitted around your children, especially over night.

a second restriction is that the kids do not leave the state without both parents permission.

I've got a feeling she's only staying around because she can't take the kids with her. so she'll start bringing the OM to her and the kids at her new place.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

heartsickpuppy said:


> Update. She has decided against leaving state for OM. She is moving into her own place on 12/3, our anniversary, lucky #13. 50/50 time with kids. We tentatively divided up household items. I volunteered to help her pay for her cell phone and insurance for the time being. I make about a third more than her, and told her I expected to pay child support. She was flabbergasted and said absolutely not.
> 
> I want to stay amicable, I still love her and always will. I want to be the perfect divorced couple-yes I am crazy.
> 
> ...


You're being too nice -- and nice guys finish last when it comes to divorce. She destroyed your family and you're paying her cellphone bill and insurance? You do realize that you are paying for the tool that she is using to cheat on you, right?


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