# I have no desire...



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂

Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist. 

I have no desire to ever marry again. Been there done that and I love living alone. I have no desire to share a remote again.
No desire to figure out what someone wants to eat.
No desire to have my mood altered by another’s issues.
Y’all get the drift...

Being a wife, sacrificing my dreams, wants and needs didn’t work out for me and it’s not something I want to do again. I don’t have the energy to navigate another “serious” relationship. We all know they take tons of work.

That being said I do believe I have a lot to offer.

My question is am I being unrealistic in thinking that there are men out there that would want a relationship knowing there will never be a marriage or a living together dynamic?

Are there men that would be happy just having someone to chill with a couple times a week. 😂 No talk of futures..no getting involved in each other’s families extensively? 

It seems to me so many people jump into relationships so fast. Within weeks they are talking about moving in together. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Hell, my own son didn’t know how to spell his girlfriends last name when they were filling out their apartment lease agreement. 😂

So are there people that simply want to “date” one person without all the relationship entanglements?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

They are out there but you will still have a lot of screening to do for interested bachelors.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> They are out there but you will still have a lot of screening to do for interested bachelors.


I guess that is the question...how does one even approach it? 
I would assume people who start dating share their thoughts on marriage etc.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I think any of the high quality, good ones would eventually want something more permanent.

You can live with someone and not have to figure out what they want to eat (collaborate about meals loosely and when you want to-- it's not up to you alone to stress out about HIS food, he needs to put in 50% meal planning), you can have two TVs in the event you want to do some solo watching, you don't need to take on his bad moods, etc.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Livvie said:


> I think any of the high quality, good ones would eventually want something more permanent.
> 
> You can live with someone and not have to figure out what they want to eat (collaborate about meals loosely and when you want to-- it's not up to you alone to stress out about HIS food, he needs to put in 50% meal planning), you can have two TVs in the event you want to do some solo watching, you don't need to take on his bad moods, etc.


I just can’t see me ever wanting to live with anyone again. I like being alone. I never thought I would ever say that. I use to be someone who always needed to be around other people. I cherish quiet. I do think some of that stems from the chaos surrounding my STBXH’s affair. I feel safest alone but I know I will want a sexual relationship and the company of a man...just not full time. 😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂
> 
> Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> ...


I mean there's plenty of men who would be happy to just have a sex arrangements with no strings. I don't think most of them are going to want to be monogamous in a relationship that is mostly about sex and watching TV together. A friend of mine had a guy she's known forever who was happy to get together for sex and they would do things together like go to garage sales and some little projects together, but he kept pressing for more and more time and I know he would have gone through the roof if she was dating anyone else. He wanted her to sell her house and move in. He wanted her more days of the week than she wanted company. she has just had to hold some boundaries with him and he breaks them fairly regularly showing up when he's not invited or wanted. For example I only get together with her once or twice a year and the one day he knew we were going to lunch, he was sitting out on the curb waiting for her to come home. That type of crap would drive me crazy. I think he was probably suspicious and jealous. 

I think most men are eventually going to expect you to do domestic things for them unless you're real clear you just want a sex relationship and that's it. And I don't think they're going to be monogamous except for maybe a short amount of time.

I certainly don't blame you for not wanting to get any further entangled. I think a lot of women reach that point.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I mean there's plenty of men who would be happy to just have a sex arrangements with no strings. I don't think most of them are going to want to be monogamous in a relationship that is mostly about sex and watching TV together. A friend of mine had a guy she's known forever who was happy to get together for sex and they would do things together like go to garage sales and some little projects together, but he kept pressing for more and more time and I know he would have gone through the roof if she was dating anyone else. He wanted her to sell her house and move in. He wanted her more days of the week than she wanted company. she has just had to hold some boundaries with him and he breaks them fairly regularly showing up when he's not invited or wanted.
> 
> I think most men are eventually going to expect you to do domestic things for them unless you're real clear you just want a sex relationship and that's it. And I don't think they're going to be monogamous except for maybe a short amount of time.


I’d be happy to make them a fantastic meal including clean up but that is about as domestic as I want to get. 😂 

There is this woman on Twitter who met a guy 3 weeks prior. They had 3 or 4 dates. 
She tweeted how upset she was that he left at 5am with nothing more than a kiss on her head and an I will see you Friday.
She was heartbroken...
Damn if I didn’t think lucky girl! 😂


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

The problem is that the answers... finding that guy who fits what you're looking for... won't necessarily be known early in the relationship. You may begin a relationship relatively platonically although still not sure what you're looking for... how different is it from friends with benefits? Are you looking for exclusivity? People develop attachments as the relationship goes on. What might begin as two relatively-independent people morphs into something where one and perhaps both start to look out for each other, and it feels like that might be an issue for you.

And there's always the cliche... maybe you just haven't met the right person yet.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂
> 
> Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> ...


OK, what's the problem. Why do you feel like you have to have one?



Torninhalf said:


> Being a wife, sacrificing my dreams, wants and needs didn’t work out for me and it’s not something I want to do again. I don’t have the energy to navigate another “serious” relationship. We all know they take tons of work.


I don't think my wife is sacrificing her dreams, if anything I would and have helped her achieve them. I want her to have all she wants and it's important to me that she gets as much of that as possible, it's important to me that I am a force in that. When she succeeds we both succeed. Now that is in the grounds of our relationship. If she wanted to move the the north pole or whatever I might have a problem. But if her dream meant not being married so be it. That is really what a husband is, a partner. Sounds like what you were was a parent, that was the dynamic. Unfortunately that is a lot of "marriages". But you shouldn't confuse the two, because you may miss a person who is like me.

Now yes you have to compomise when you live with someone. But if you both have the same kind of living style it's not that hard. My wife and I have pretty much been in this house for about a year non-stop both working from home. We have not had one fight about it. I don't think we have had a fight about domestic stuff for over a decade. We are on exactly the same page when it comes to this. It's easy. But we had extensive talks about what our domestic life would be like when we got married. 

I think a big key is not to marry children. 



Torninhalf said:


> That being said I do believe I have a lot to offer.
> 
> My question is am I being unrealistic in thinking that there are men out there that would want a relationship knowing there will never be a marriage or a living together dynamic?
> 
> Are there men that would be happy just having someone to chill with a couple times a week. 😂 No talk of futures..no getting involved in each other’s families extensively?


Sure I have known a lot of people who date like this. The question is are you sure if you met someone really good that you will force it to stay like this. My point being the restriction my limit your choices. Look for the guy who lost a lot of money in his divorce, but then again there will issues with that I am sure.



Torninhalf said:


> It seems to me so many people jump into relationships so fast. Within weeks they are talking about moving in together. 🤷🏼‍♀️ Hell, my own son didn’t know how to spell his girlfriends last name when they were filling out their apartment lease agreement. 😂
> 
> So are there people that simply want to “date” one person without all the relationship entanglements?


I think you are over thinking it. How about just date and see how it goes. Life is not like this, you can't plan for what kind of future relationship you will have. You have to react to the one you get around the circumstances you are in. And not every relationship has to be "the one" or a life long one. See how it goes. One things for sure if you are not out there your chances of getting one are very slim.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’d be happy to make them a fantastic meal including clean up but that is about as domestic as I want to get. 😂
> 
> There is this woman on Twitter who met a guy 3 weeks prior. They had 3 or 4 dates.
> She tweeted how upset she was that he left at 5am with nothing more than a kiss on her head and an I will see you Friday.
> ...


well I think plenty of guys would be okay with that kind of arrangement but I just don't think they're going to be monogamous in it. It's not enough of a relationship for them to want to be monogamous in it. And I think eventually whoever it is is going to get jealous and accusatory about why you don't want them around all the time.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I have occasionally dated since my divorce and prefer to keep it casual since I don’t want another relationship. I love my life as it is now and don’t want it to change. Unfortunately, I seem to attract men who are more serious than I am so I don’t have the answer as to how that works and then I end up taking very long breaks. Trial and error it seems.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> The problem is that the answers... finding that guy who fits what you're looking for... won't necessarily be known early in the relationship. You may begin a relationship relatively platonically although still not sure what you're looking for... how different is it from friends with benefits? Are you looking for exclusivity? People develop attachments as the relationship goes on. What might begin as two relatively-independent people morphs into something where one and perhaps both start to look out for each other, and it feels like that might be an issue for you.
> 
> And there's always the cliche... maybe you just haven't met the right person yet.


I would want exclusivity. I’m not young. I’m not looking for someone who wants a family.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> OK, what's the problem. Why do you feel like you have to have one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How does one date and explain to them that I’m not interested in a conventional type of relationship? 
I did that for 37 years and truly have no desire for it again. 
Did my situation damage me? That’s a big for sure but I’m not so damaged I can’t be good for someone without the traditional entanglements.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> well I think plenty of guys would be okay with that kind of arrangement but I just don't think they're going to be monogamous in it. It's not enough of a relationship for them to want to be monogamous in it. And I think eventually whoever it is is going to get jealous and accusatory about why you don't want them around all the time.


I’m not the type of person who wouldn’t be monogamous.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> How does one date and explain to them that I’m not interested in a conventional type of relationship?
> I did that for 37 years and truly have no desire for it again.
> Did my situation damage me? That’s a big for sure but I’m not so damaged I can’t be good for someone without the traditional entanglements.


Maybe second date - "I am not looking for marriage, been there done that."

Just be honest and consistent early on, if this is on the must list for the guy he will back away.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I have occasionally dated since my divorce and prefer to keep it casual since I don’t want another relationship. I love my life as it is now and don’t want it to change. Unfortunately, I seem to attract men who are more serious than I am so I don’t have the answer as to how that works and then I end up taking very long breaks. Trial and error it seems.


I wonder how many men simply say what they think women want to hear. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I guess that is the question...how does one even approach it?
> I would assume people who start dating share their thoughts on marriage etc.


Now that I don't have specifics on but I've seen a lot of older bachelors wanting everything from someone to take care of them financially to wanting a traditional marriage and think you are desperate to just wanting to use you for sex and whatever because they think you are desperate...etc..

I have seen some that fit the description you're looking for though.

Men who are at ease with themselves and you while being solid in their own lives are a good place to start.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Honestly, once I've been single for a while, that sounds like literally my dream set up in the future.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I wonder how many men simply say what they think women want to hear. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Some for sure. I have yet to date someone who agrees with my idea of how it should work. I’m sure they’re out there somewhere.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Maybe second date - "I am not looking for marriage, been there done that."
> 
> Just be honest and consistent early on, if this is on the must list for the guy he will back away.


Honestly is always the best...I wouldn’t want to come across heartless or cold cause I’m really not. I’m kind and generous. I just don’t believe I will ever really “love” again. I love my kids, my grandkids but romantic love isn’t really something I believe in anymore.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Now that I don't have specifics on but I've seen a lot of older bachelors wanting everything from someone to take care of them financially to wanting a traditional marriage and think you are desperate to just wanting to use you for sex and whatever because they think you are desperate...etc..
> 
> I have seen some that fit the description you're looking for though.
> 
> Men who are at ease with themselves and you while being solid in their own lives are a good place to start.


I absolutely don’t want to use anyone or be used myself. If it was just sex I was seeking I can find that easily enough.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> Some for sure. I have yet to date someone who agrees with my idea of how it should work. I’m sure they’re out there somewhere.


Keep looking!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not the type of person who wouldn’t be monogamous.


Most men who are single are not likely to be monogamous and will sneak around if they have to. I just don't think they're going to know what to do with a relationship like this. If they are the type to be monogamous they're probably also the type to want the full relationship benefits. I think what will happen is you will get started with someone and they may even agree to everything but then it will all go off the rails. They'll just call you selfish for not wanting to do the whole domestic routine. And of course if you're expecting anything from them, that isn't fair either. 

I think the incentive for most men to be in a relationship is sex and for most men to be monogamous is the equivalent of marriage.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Honestly, once I've been single for a while, that sounds like literally my dream set up in the future.


How long were you married and how old are you? I think for me it is the combination of those 2 things.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I would want exclusivity. I’m not young. I’m not looking for someone who wants a family.


There are men out there who have been through horrible marriages and divorces looking for the same type of arrangement you seek. You just have to be upfront from the very start.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Most men who are single are not likely to be monogamous and will sneak around if they have to. I just don't think they're going to know what to do with a relationship like this. If they are the type to be monogamous they're probably also the type to want the full relationship benefits. I think what will happen is you will get started with someone and they may even agree to everything but then it will all go off the rails. They'll just call you selfish for not wanting to do the whole domestic routine. And of course if you're expecting anything from them, that isn't fair either.
> 
> I think the incentive for most men to be in a relationship is sex and for most men to be monogamous is the equivalent of marriage.


One would think a man would be happy with regular sex and no nagging about putting the toilet seat down. 😂🤷🏼‍♀️


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> How long were you married and how old are you? I think for me it is the combination of those 2 things.


I'm in the middle of ending my second marriage, and I'm 41.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> How does one date and explain to them that I’m not interested in a conventional type of relationship?
> I did that for 37 years and truly have no desire for it again.
> Did my situation damage me? That’s a big for sure but I’m not so damaged I can’t be good for someone without the traditional entanglements.


you can explain it but I doubt they will understand it or agree with it in the long run although they may agree to anything right then but then find that they can't handle it. 

I don't think it's unusual at all for women who have been in a marriage that was probably unbalanced to begin with to not want to get into another domestic routine with men. I've seen it over and over in my life and I completely understand it and that's why I'm single.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Most men who are single are not likely to be monogamous and will sneak around if they have to. I just don't think they're going to know what to do with a relationship like this. If they are the type to be monogamous they're probably also the type to want the full relationship benefits. I think what will happen is you will get started with someone and they may even agree to everything but then it will all go off the rails. They'll just call you selfish for not wanting to do the whole domestic routine. And of course if you're expecting anything from them, that isn't fair either.
> 
> I think the incentive for most men to be in a relationship is sex and for most men to be monogamous is the equivalent of marriage.


I gotta say you are certainly down on men kind of as a general practice.😁


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> One would think a man would be happy with regular sex and no nagging about putting the toilet seat down. 😂🤷🏼‍♀️


So you are planning on cleaning up after him then?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Benbutton said:


> There are men out there who have been through horrible marriages and divorces looking for the same type of arrangement you seek. You just have to be upfront from the very start.


I have no intention on being anything but honest. My life was destroyed by lies and I have no room to play games.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> I gotta say you are certainly down on men kind of as a general practice.😁


I'm just not the domestic type. I've been independent my whole life and not into duty and compromise and I think a relationship requires that, at least a domestic relationship.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So you are planning on cleaning up after him then?
> [/QUOTE
> Cleaning up how?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I dated one guy a few months after my divorce who was taking it casually but was ok with it just being me. Busy people tend to be the ones that are ok with this arrangement. I was upfront with him about being a one guy sort of woman and expecting the same from him, and he agreed. It didn't work out longterm. I do know what you mean. The guy I dated most recently we were together 4 years and him, his mom and his son lived together with me and my son. It was hard for my son and for his when we split. I don't have any desire to put any little hearts through that again, especially my son. 

I forget, do you have kids? They were grown, correct? Forgive me if I got that detail wrong.

Not interested in even casual dating now for a while. Don't want to have my desires and career back burnered for anyone other than my son, pretty much, so it wouldn't be fair to enter into a relationship again, since it requires a lot of giving, sacrifice and soforth. So yeah, having the remote to myself is a beautiful thing. I get to stay up late when my son is with his Dad or nap or go for a run without having to coordinate schedules with someone else. Sure, it can get lonely sometimes but after restrictions are down a bit, I'll be able to spend time with friends more. I used to kind of pity single women and men in their 40s, 50s, 60s but now I kind of think they have the right idea. They had all sorts of adventures. And I plan on doing so too. What do you want to experience? Do you have some ideas?

I do miss sex but sex with someone who doesn't see you or desire you anymore is way lonelier than being alone.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Keep looking!


I try — now and then. If I were younger, it might be more of a priority than I’ve made it. I enjoy my life very much as it is.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I was just going off your comment about you wouldn't require them to put the toilet seat down. That would mean some cleanup and the reason that surprised me is because you already said you don't want to have to be in the position of planning meals and doing all that type of stuff.

You also mentioned not sharing the remote but if you have a guest in your house you're going to be sharing the remote.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

hubbyintrubby said:


> I'm in the middle of ending my second marriage, and I'm 41.





DownByTheRiver said:


> I was just going off your comment about you wouldn't require them to put the toilet seat down. That would mean some cleanup and the reason that surprised me is because you already said you don't want to have to be in the position of planning meals and doing all that type of stuff.


I just meant for a man there would be no domestic entanglements that ensue when you live with someone.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I try — now and then. If I were younger, it might be more of a priority than I’ve made it. I enjoy my life very much as it is.


Perhaps it is my age as well. I just don’t want all the drama. 😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I just meant for a man there would be no domestic entanglements that ensue when you live with someone.


So you don't want to live together, but you expect him to be monogamous. I mean there might be the rare bird out there. I definitely think Joan is on to something about that might work with a very busy man. what you don't want is someone with a lot of time on their hands because they're going to want more time with you. 

I think that's most of the problem with that boyfriend of my friend. he is pretty much a recluse who does the occasional work from home but he wants her to recluse with him.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> I dated one guy a few months after my divorce who was taking it casually but was ok with it just being me. Busy people tend to be the ones that are ok with this arrangement. I was upfront with him about being a one guy sort of woman and expecting the same from him, and he agreed. It didn't work out longterm. I do know what you mean. The guy I dated most recently we were together 4 years and him, his mom and his son lived together with me and my son. It was hard for my son and for his when we split. I don't have any desire to put any little hearts through that again, especially my son.
> 
> I forget, do you have kids? They were grown, correct? Forgive me if I got that detail wrong.
> 
> ...


I do have 2 grown children. One grandchild and another on the way. 
I only desire peace. Calm. No drama. No arguing that comes in normal relationships.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So you don't want to live together, but you expect him to be monogamous. I mean there might be the rare bird out there. I definitely think Joan is on to something about that might work with a very busy man. what you don't want is someone with a lot of time on their hands because they're going to want more time with you.
> 
> I think that's most of the problem with that boyfriend of my friend. he is pretty much a recluse who does the occasional work from home but he wants her to recluse with him.


I dated my husband for 4 years before we married and we were monogamous. We never lived together. That doesn’t exist anymore? 😂


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Perhaps it is my age as well. I just don’t want all the drama. 😂


I think when you’re coming out of a long marriage (45 years in my case), you usually value peace more than you once did. I married very young and experienced a lot of good and bad in those decades. When I divorced, I wanted life to finally be on my terms and I have it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Openminded said:


> I think when you’re coming out of a long marriage (45 years in my case), you usually value peace more than you once did. I married very young and experienced a lot of good and bad in those decades. When I divorced, I wanted life to finally be on my terms and I have it.


BINGO! My marriage was 33 years. The last 5 have been excruciating. I really can only blame myself for staying as long as I have. That aside I still like men. I’m not a hater just yet. 😂


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> BINGO! My marriage was 33 years. The last 5 have been excruciating. I really can only blame myself for staying as long as I have. That aside I still like men. I’m not a hater just yet. 😂


I totally relate.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Openminded said:


> I have occasionally dated since my divorce and prefer to keep it casual since I don’t want another relationship. I love my life as it is now and don’t want it to change. Unfortunately, I seem to attract men who are more serious than I am so I don’t have the answer as to how that works and then I end up taking very long breaks. Trial and error it seems.


Great problem to have!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I just can’t see me ever wanting to live with anyone again. I like being alone. I never thought I would ever say that. I use to be someone who always needed to be around other people. I cherish quiet. I do think some of that stems from the chaos surrounding my STBXH’s affair. I feel safest alone but I know I will want a sexual relationship and the company of a man...just not full time. 😂


The thing is that many say that until a few years later they meet that special someone. Mind you I am guessing you are around 60 ish? I am in my 60's and if anything happened to my husband I wouldnt get married again or date again. Having been married twice I would be happy to live alone, even though I havent been put off by my first husband or dad who both hurt me a lot.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> The thing is that many say that until a few years later they meet that special someone.


I’m sure that is a risk. It’s so odd given divorce rates and the amount of people who cheat that anyone marries anymore.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂
> 
> Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> ...


I’m planning on just being blissfully alone and not dating. If by some chance some guy comes along I think I’d have to be convinced that he’s worth it, and that’s a big expectation. I have nothing to lose by not having a man at this point. I would like to cultivate some male friendships again, just because having a large human wrap his arms around you in a hug is kind of a necessity for living. 

Also I’m not even close to being ready to date for years. And dating sounds like a dirty word. Grodie. Jaded or no, I don’t care anymore.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> I’m planning on just being blissfully alone and not dating. If by some chance some guy comes along I think I’d have to be convinced that he’s worth it, and that’s a big expectation. I have nothing to lose by not having a man at this point. I would like to cultivate some male friendships again, just because having a large human wrap his arms around you in a hug is kind of a necessity for living.
> 
> Also I’m not even close to being ready to date for years. And dating sounds like a dirty word. Grodie. Jaded or no, I don’t care anymore.


Yes...It’s that large human wrapping their arms around you that I would miss. 
I would like to have that without the burden of the angst that comes with relationships. 😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I dated my husband for 4 years before we married and we were monogamous. We never lived together. That doesn’t exist anymore? 😂


The difference is you were dating with marriage in mind. If the man knows there's not going to be any marriage and domesticity I think that's going to matter to some of them at least.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> The difference is you were dating with marriage in mind. If the man knows there's not going to be any marriage and domesticity I think that's going to matter to some of them at least.


So in your estimation most men will be looking for long term?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Yes...It’s that large human wrapping their arms around you that I would miss.
> I would like to have that without the burden of the angst that comes with relationships. 😂


I used to have a lot of male friends in my younger years and there was a lot of affection without any of the dating accoutrements. Seems like the perfect situation at this point. Friendship and hugs. I mean you seem to want sex too, I’m not even there. I’m staying fully dressed for the hugs.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> I used to have a lot of male friends in my younger years and there was a lot of affection without any of the dating accoutrements. Seems like the perfect situation at this point. Friendship and hugs. I mean you seem to want sex too, I’m not even there. I’m staying fully dressed for the hugs.


Yes, I want to get naked too...😂


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Yes, I want to get naked too...😂


I have a single friend in her 50s that’s had absolutely no problem finding men to date that are happy being monogamous, going on dates, and then going home. They so far have tended to want more eventually... but for a good year they are happy with it. She’s the one that doesn’t want commitment and has to cut them loose when they start wanting more because she doesn’t want to feel like she’s leading them on. She has a lot of fun and is super honest. It can happen.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> I have a single friend in her 50s that’s had absolutely no problem finding men to date that are happy being monogamous, going on dates, and then going home. They so far have tended to want more eventually... but for a good year they are happy with it. She’s the one that doesn’t want commitment and has to cut them loose when they start wanting more because she doesn’t want to feel like she’s leading them on. She has a lot of fun and is super honest. It can happen.


That’s what I am hoping for. 😁


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Honestly is always the best...I wouldn’t want to come across heartless or cold cause I’m really not. I’m kind and generous. I just don’t believe I will ever really “love” again. I love my kids, my grandkids but romantic love isn’t really something I believe in anymore.


And the universe is worse off for it. 

That being said I do think not everyone should be married. Even good faithful people don't have the skills to live and share with someone. 

Anyway assuming you met the right man this should come up in conversation at some point and just be honest.

By the way you don't have to believe in it you just have to be open to it.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Having read some of your other posts I think that perhaps you may change your mind after you have had more time out of your bad relationship. Now, that doesn't mean I think you're gonna want another guy to have to take care of just like you took care of your husband. Of course not. But I think once you have healed a bit more you will know more exactly what kind of man you want and you'll know what you do and don't want in a relationship, more than just "I don't want to have to do everything again." I had to examine that a lot and I found someone who complements my strength and weaknesses well. Like you, I didn't want someone I would have to do all the heavy lifting for...dinner, laundry, making the big decisions alone, being the "mother" essentially. Been there, done that, never again. I have found someone who does NOT need me to be his mother but wants me to be his partner, just as @sokillme talked about. It makes a huge difference. I have no hesitatations about moving in with him but I might if he were a different sort of guy. But he's independent, allows me my independence, and yet, we share lots of quality time together. It's the perfect balance for me!

I read an article just the other day that older men are finding that women don't want to cohabitate anymore. Older men want to get married and the women just don't. This doesn't surprise me at all.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Great problem to have!


I’m sure if I only wanted a serious relationship then I’d very likely only run across the ones who didn’t.😄


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I would want exclusivity. I’m not young. I’m not looking for someone who wants a family.


Men in their 50s and 60s can still want a permanent, living together relationship.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> My question is am I being unrealistic in thinking that there are men out there that would want a relationship knowing there will never be a marriage or a living together dynamic?
> 
> Are there men that would be happy just having someone to chill with a couple times a week.
> 
> So are there people that simply want to “date” one person without all the relationship entanglements?


Yes.

A couple of times a week that includes fun times and sex would work very well with a lot of men.

The problem arises when one wants exclusivity and the other does not.

*Problems:*
Being the jealous type begs for exclusivity.

Being a health conscious person makes you leery of a partner that dates and has sex with multiple partners.
Most men would not like _you _sharing your time and body with another dude.

But, it might be OK for them (him), provided they keep it on the sly. 
You know, to not hurt your feelings! 
And, of course they do not want to drive you away.

Many men likely do not want to wear a condom. 
That tells you a lot about his concern for his own health, let alone for yours.
At some point he can keep it off, if true exclusivity is established.

Yes, some men think exactly like you. 
You likely will go through your share of them to get one you can stand for more than an hour.

And, one you enjoy and tolerate, allowing him to _repeatedly_ put his penis inside you.
Many dates may become _once and done_. 
He does not pass the intimacy test.

You may fall in love with a decent guy, but he wants to keep the relationship semi-casual, FWB.
Oh, every second he is not with you, you will wonder what he is up to.
Is he with another woman?

If you do not think this will happen in your case, ah, good luck.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Honestly is always the best...I wouldn’t want to come across heartless or cold cause I’m really not. I’m kind and generous. I just don’t believe I will ever really “love” again. I love my kids, my grandkids but romantic love isn’t really something I believe in anymore.


Never say never.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Hell Torn, you sound like brother. His drug addict, sociopath wife kicked the bucket via drug related issues and he's down on any kind of live in relationship and wanting some chick to hang with and of course, with benefits. If youre in east Alabama, you may need to give him a call. What youre feeling is not that uncommon.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

joannacroc said:


> I dated one guy a few months after my divorce who was taking it casually but was ok with it just being me. Busy people tend to be the ones that are ok with this arrangement. I was upfront with him about being a one guy sort of woman and expecting the same from him, and he agreed. It didn't work out longterm. I do know what you mean. The guy I dated most recently we were together 4 years and him, his mom and his son lived together with me and my son. It was hard for my son and for his when we split. I don't have any desire to put any little hearts through that again, especially my son.
> 
> I forget, do you have kids? They were grown, correct? Forgive me if I got that detail wrong.
> 
> ...


I hated reading this.

I do understand. 
Being fair to a potential date is the honorable take.
I suspect you use this as an excuse, so as to not get your heart hurt again.
To protect yourself, more-so.

Relationships are all about give and take.
And fairness, respect.

Oh yeah, lust and paired justice.

Scheduled dates and sex, ah, say ever Saturday, sounds OK, except on Thursday and Friday, when you are anxiously waiting on Saturday.

TBH, it is easier to keep men desirous of you when sex is dangled in front of him, giving it up, only _now and then, yes, once again, please.


Are Dee-_


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So in your estimation most men will be looking for long term?


I think they will either be looking for the whole package or just sex. But I do think if it's temporary that you can find the in between.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I do have 2 grown children. One grandchild and another on the way.
> *I only desire peace. Calm. No drama. No arguing that comes in normal relationships.*


Who the hell doesn't!

As we age our tolerance for drama turns into intolerance.

Except with grandchildren.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I do have 2 grown children. One grandchild and another on the way.
> I only desire peace. Calm. No drama. No arguing that comes in normal relationships.


Not all marriages have drama or lots of arguments.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Never say never.


Agreed. My aunt met the love of her life and married him when she was 60 and he 70. They had 10 very happy years till he died age 80.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Yes...It’s that large human wrapping their arms around you that I would miss.
> I would like to have that without the burden of the angst that comes with relationships. 😂


The angst comes with a 200 lb balding anchor.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think they will either be looking for the whole package or just sex. But I do think if it's temporary that you can find the in between.


That’s rough but I suspect you’re right. The kids now apparently do all this FWB stuff but thinking back to my 20s-30s I don’t have a single friend that did this. I knew one guy who when dating apps came out was hooking up crazy stuff like threesomes from the app but he didn’t have a regular thing with anyone for just sex that was monogamous.

Maybe older folks it’s more common especially with kids? Dunno.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This has been a good thread.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I doubt you will find a long term, honestly monogamous relationship of the type you want.

As discussed, a very high quality man who will stay true to the monogamy clause is _very likely_ to want more of a full relationship... and there will be a ton of women more than willing to provide it to him.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

It is a shame that one or two _intimate humans_ out of the seven billion that kick-up dirt on this globe, can ruin a person for life.

Aye, it happens. 

No one should live in your head that does not wipe his morals clean, first.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I doubt you will find a long term, honestly monogamous relationship of the type you want.
> 
> As discussed, a very high quality man who will stay true to the monogamy clause is _very likely_ to want more of a full relationship... and there will be a ton of women more than willing to provide it to him.


And, there is your competition for these men.

Grab em' while they are hot!

If you don't, they move on, love on, just one, not you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> The thing is that many say that until a few years later they meet that special someone. Mind you I am guessing you are around 60 ish? I am in my 60's and if anything happened to my husband I wouldnt get married again or date again. Having been married twice I would be happy to live alone, even though I havent been put off by my first husband or dad who both hurt me a lot.


I’m 54. Met my STBXH when I was 17.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> And the universe is worse off for it.
> 
> That being said I do think not everyone should be married. Even good faithful people don't have the skills to live and share with someone.
> 
> ...


I have no desire to share anyone. I did that already without permission. I would expect to be exclusive.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m 54. Met my STBXH when I was 17.


You are too young to bail on men.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> Having read some of your other posts I think that perhaps you may change your mind after you have had more time out of your bad relationship. Now, that doesn't mean I think you're gonna want another guy to have to take care of just like you took care of your husband. Of course not. But I think once you have healed a bit more you will know more exactly what kind of man you want and you'll know what you do and don't want in a relationship, more than just "I don't want to have to do everything again." I had to examine that a lot and I found someone who complements my strength and weaknesses well. Like you, I didn't want someone I would have to do all the heavy lifting for...dinner, laundry, making the big decisions alone, being the "mother" essentially. Been there, done that, never again. I have found someone who does NOT need me to be his mother but wants me to be his partner, just as @sokillme talked about. It makes a huge difference. I have no hesitatations about moving in with him but I might if he were a different sort of guy. But he's independent, allows me my independence, and yet, we share lots of quality time together. It's the perfect balance for me!
> 
> I read an article just the other day that older men are finding that women don't want to cohabitate anymore. Older men want to get married and the women just don't. This doesn't surprise me at all.


It is odd that things are switching up. I feel like the dude in my situation. 😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s rough but I suspect you’re right. The kids now apparently do all this FWB stuff but thinking back to my 20s-30s I don’t have a single friend that did this. I knew one guy who when dating apps came out was hooking up crazy stuff like threesomes from the app but he didn’t have a regular thing with anyone for just sex that was monogamous.
> 
> Maybe older folks it’s more common especially with kids? Dunno.


When I was in my twenties was the 1970s and there wasn't anything people were not doing on any side of the scale. I know in the 1980s I did have a f buddy. Now the kids today they try to see them a lot and get cozy and cuddly with them. My f buddy and I would run into each other out at gigs and sometimes go home together. We had known each other a little for a few years through a mutual friend and he had tried to date me early on but I was always in love with someone that I only had eyes for. 

The problem with him is he was a severe alcoholic who drank first thing in the morning. Most of those years you could barely tell he was drinking. He was also the only guy I dated up until then who was a couple of years older than me. And we did try actually dating at one point before the f buddy stuff started, and it was no hard feelings but it just fizzled and we didn't even talk about it. It just got boring. He admitted he had some problems with intimacy and talking and getting close to people. So we had enough to talk about with music and that sort of thing but once that was all done, I think it just fizzled for both of us but we occasionally got together for sex. 

He still looks good with a full head of hair. He always wore it kind of rockabilly. He had a clothing shop and had clothes manufactured to sell there and played in a little local band. 

I did have another guy who I made out with for about 10 years off and on but I think we only had actual sex once because he was quite a bit younger than me and usually had some young girlfriend he was trying to not cheat on. But he had no qualms about making out. I loved him to death, but despite his funny standards, he was practical enough to go the conventional route when it came to picking a woman to stay with and have kids with. We had a lot of fun together though. He tried to hide getting married from me. We had been kissing in the front seat of my car about three weeks prior. At that time I didn't even know he had a girlfriend. He had shed his high school girlfriend few years before. I know he sounds like a louse but we really adored each other but were just too far apart in age. It was kind of fun having a kissing makeout buddy because I kind of missed that in high school. And he and I never ran out of anything to talk about. We could talk on the phone for hours or in person for as long as he could stay.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> Yes.
> 
> A couple of times a week that includes fun times and sex would work very well with a lot of men.
> 
> ...


You make valid points...I don’t fear getting emotionally hurt because nothing could come close to the pain I have been in. I also don’t want any diseases so exclusivity would be important to me.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> It is odd that things are switching up. I feel like the dude in my situation. 😂


When you're on your own and you haven't been because you got married that young, you have a lot to find out about your true self and how you are when there's no one else underfoot influencing you. You will be able to follow your path and then if you don't like that path you can switch paths because now you are a free agent.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> You are too young to bail on men.


I’m not bailing in men. I like the species. I just know my limitations moving forward. 😁😂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> You make valid points...I don’t fear getting emotionally hurt because nothing could come close to the pain I have been in. I also don’t want any diseases so exclusivity would be important to me.


Just make sure they use condoms. There is no way to keep from getting a disease just by trusting someone because too many people lie about it. Buy condoms and keep them handy in case they don't.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> When you're on your own and you haven't been because you got married that young, you have a lot to find out about your true self and how you are when there's no one else underfoot influencing you. You will be able to follow your path and then if you don't like that path you can switch paths because now you are a free agent.


I absolutely hear what you are saying. I have finally come out of the dust that has been constantly swirling the last few years. I can see a path forward. I can see a future with my grandkids. That pure fresh start right in front of me. I don’t ever want to allow drama from another person to seep in. My agency had been taken from me for an extended period of time and I will never be in that position again.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Just make sure they use condoms. There is no way to keep from getting a disease just by trusting someone because too many people lie about it. Buy condoms and keep them handy in case they don't.


You can count on it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Not all marriages have drama or lots of arguments.


That is true but given the divorce rates and let’s face it the drama we see here in many marriages, I don’t like the odds. 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> Hell Torn, you sound like brother. His drug addict, sociopath wife kicked the bucket via drug related issues and he's down on any kind of live in relationship and wanting some chick to hang with and of course, with benefits. If youre in east Alabama, you may need to give him a call. What youre feeling is not that uncommon.


I have no plans to hoof it out to Alabama but one never knows. 😂👊


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Livvie said:


> I doubt you will find a long term, honestly monogamous relationship of the type you want.
> 
> As discussed, a very high quality man who will stay true to the monogamy clause is _very likely_ to want more of a full relationship... and there will be a ton of women more than willing to provide it to him.


That’s cool. I don’t want a man that is looking for marriage. I would be interested if someone was.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I absolutely hear what you are saying. I have finally come out of the dust that has been constantly swirling the last few years. I can see a path forward. I can see a future with my grandkids. That pure fresh start right in front of me. I don’t ever want to allow drama from another person to seep in. My agency had been taken from me for an extended period of time and I will never be in that position again.


It's easy to let someone kind of take over your life just out of habit. I'm glad you shake it off the dust enough to kind of get out of the whirlwind enough to know how not to get back into it if it's not something that will really enhance your life. The good thing is you're not young and on the biological clock trying to have kids. So whether you do or you don't find the right man or a full-time one is kind of not that important. So protect yourself and just have fun and I'm sure you know not to stay in something if it's not working for you. Know when to fold 'em.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> It's easy to let someone kind of take over your life just out of habit. I'm glad you shake it off the dust enough to kind of get out of the whirlwind enough to know how not to get back into it if it's not something that will really enhance your life. The good thing is you're not young and on the biological clock trying to have kids. So whether you do or you don't find the right man or a full-time one is kind of not that important. So protect yourself and just have fun and I'm sure you know not to stay in something if it's not working for you. Know when to fold 'em.


Spot on!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I have no desire to share anyone. I did that already without permission. I would expect to be exclusive.


To be clearer what I meant was not everyone has the ability compromise and share in their personal life and just stuff wise, at the level it is necessary to be married successfully. Not share as in share people.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I think the key is “dump fast” if it’s not working for you.

A want is not a need. You don’t need anyone.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

sokillme said:


> To be clearer what I meant was not everyone has the ability compromise and share in their personal life and just stuff wise, at the level it is necessary to be married successfully. Not share as in share people.


Thanks for the clarification. I know me personally I wouldn’t want to share all that has happened to me with someone else. I don’t think I want to seek that kind of intimacy. I think mostly I know how much work relationships take and I want something casual yet satisfying.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Marc878 said:


> I think the key is “dump fast” if it’s not working for you.
> 
> A want is not a need. You don’t need anyone.


Truth...


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> I have no desire to ever marry again. Been there done that and I love living alone. I have no desire to share a remote again.
> No desire to figure out what someone wants to eat.
> ...


Being jaded, having to carve out fresh for yourself who you really are, what you stand for, is part of the territory unfortunately as a betrayed spouse. You have been through so much. The good news is, if you look around you, you see love everywhere. It was part of what helped me believe in the goodness of many men, and the love that can exist between people, looking at couples together for years, at my parents who are still happy together, and friends who have been together for years. When your heart has had a little time to heal, you will see the many types of love around you - love for grandkids, love for your kids, for your friends, and realize that while things didn't work out for you with your STBXH that there is love out there, it just might not always be romantic love.

There is a lot of talk about the emotional toll that marriage takes on people, especially women. I don't know if it was ever asked of us, but I certainly felt the need to take care of everyone, shop for everyone, make food for everyone, clean up after everyone, remember birthdays, send cards, care for elderly relatives, and do a lot of the sacrificing that you mention. It is a lot of work, I agree. It isn't so much the work itself but the emotional weight of having to be the go-to person for everything feels so heavy some days in a serious relationship. I don't miss that. 

My kidding-not-kidding advice? Get yourself a pet. They are loyal, amazing company and heal your heart like nothing else. And you don't risk hurting anyone because you're not ready for a long-term relationship.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

joannacroc said:


> Being jaded, having to carve out fresh for yourself who you really are, what you stand for, is part of the territory unfortunately as a betrayed spouse. You have been through so much. The good news is, if you look around you, you see love everywhere. It was part of what helped me believe in the goodness of many men, and the love that can exist between people, looking at couples together for years, at my parents who are still happy together, and friends who have been together for years. When your heart has had a little time to heal, you will see the many types of love around you - love for grandkids, love for your kids, for your friends, and realize that while things didn't work out for you with your STBXH that there is love out there, it just might not always be romantic love.
> 
> There is a lot of talk about the emotional toll that marriage takes on people, especially women. I don't know if it was ever asked of us, but I certainly felt the need to take care of everyone, shop for everyone, make food for everyone, clean up after everyone, remember birthdays, send cards, care for elderly relatives, and do a lot of the sacrificing that you mention. It is a lot of work, I agree. It isn't so much the work itself but the emotional weight of having to be the go-to person for everything feels so heavy some days in a serious relationship. I don't miss that.
> 
> My kidding-not-kidding advice? Get yourself a pet. They are loyal, amazing company and heal your heart like nothing else. And you don't risk hurting anyone because you're not ready for a long-term relationship.


You are so right about the toll it can take. 
As to pets...I have 4. 😂


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Breaking painful cycles of the hurt we experience can be a struggle that we often disguise in avoidance, reflected in many things that have been said here.

To move gently toward the very things we recoil from is a practice that softens the heart and allows us to establish healthy boundaries instead of walls... we have to be sure we know one does not become mistakenly built when the other is the goal.

"A great date" was my goal... but not many held my view of what that meant.

Most older happy single men who dated really weren't all that interested in anything that cramped their style... and time spent in equal interest was often a strain. When I shared with my friends the level of conversation I enjoyed and felt necessary for growth in a partner I might as well have been from another existence. I was told that at this stage of life and dating I should get used to tolerating the superficial and that my life is now mine to have fun... life on my terms.

I could see why these older single men stayed single...

At some point, vulnerability and connection will need to be present and a healthy boundary has to be in place to guide you through those who are a danger to your well-being and those who are there to give a healthy purpose. Not everyone deserves you (this can be a two-way street if your walls cause harm), and a healthy navigation to move past these people early is a tool of proper preservation of all things eightfold.

Safe and healthy relationships can at times seem boring, many become drawn to "fun" or "exciting" when it is nothing more than unmindfully abusive space-sharing. I share this because after leaving a cycle of pain, I understand better how our minds and emotions have conditioned themselves to not be sure what is really there in healthy ways. We have to love ourselves more in patience as we understand it is not just ok to say "no, I don't like that", it is healthy... and then follow that in action.

There are levels of vulnerability that we need in our connections of course... these tell us where our openness should fall, who we connect with and how we connect with them. The closer in trust to the person, the more open we share. At some point we lose our fears and are willing to share any level openly with any who fall into the safe boundary yet remember, our deepest emotions are not for everyone... just the chosen closest to us.

As I observed a trust grow with my Cindy, I was reminded that my last marriage (29 years) allowed me to develop and see my authentic choices of self, accept the changes that happen, and recognize that my vulnerability is actually an earned process, built in boundaries.

As you think about how you want people in you life, perhaps some of these ideas will help.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> I have no plans to hoof it out to Alabama but one never knows. 😂👊


Yah, I understand. I love my brother but he ain't worth traveling more than 50 or 100 miles for. 😄


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The problem with relationships is that women are cast as receivers, men the deliverers.

Maybe so, long ago.
Maybe so, with regards to intercourse, of course.

Now, it is both who give and receive.
The good feelings and bad.

_If thou desirerest that good, thou must deliver it, in kind.
In kind ways.

........................................................................................................................_

When you can comfortably, hug hard, a known man, you are ready to date a strange one.

When you look at an attractive man and your eyes scan him up and down, more than once, the urge is to merge.

What alerts you first to your desire, your breathing pace or your breeding place?
Either one is sufficient, the first is impelling, the second is impaling.

_The Typist-_


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Breaking painful cycles of the hurt we experience can be a struggle that we often disguise in avoidance, reflected in many things that have been said here.
> 
> To move gently toward the very things we recoil from is a practice that softens the heart and allows us to establish healthy boundaries instead of walls... we have to be sure we know one does not become mistakenly built when the other is the goal.
> 
> ...


Thank you for that thought provoking response. I absolutely have up walls. They keep me safe. They took years to go up and I suppose will take as much time to take down. Today, as I sit here, I can’t imagine even attempting it. Perhaps one day I will see the benefit of starting the process.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> Yah, I understand. I love my brother but he ain't worth traveling more than 50 or 100 miles for. 😄


😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> The problem with relationships is that women are cast as receivers, men the deliverers.
> 
> Maybe so, long ago.
> Maybe so, with regards to intercourse, of course.
> ...


There is an urge to merge...just not emotionally. 😁


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I didn’t read the whole thread but I would say that it should be relatively easy to find what your looking for. It’s my view that if your honest up front then at least you did your part. You sound like a full inbox to me if you do a dating app. The only thing I would be careful about is those lying cheating men who say they are single. If I were you I would be looking for two men. One with a fat wallet and one with a fat di.......


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Mr.Married said:


> If I were you I would be looking for two men. One with a fat wallet and one with a fat di.......


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> I didn’t read the whole thread but I would say that it should be relatively easy to find what your looking for. It’s my view that if your honest up front then at least you did your part. You sound like a full inbox to me if you do a dating app. The only thing I would be careful about is those lying cheating men who say they are single. If I were you I would be looking for two men. One with a fat wallet and one with a fat di.......


I have no interest in the wallet. I also have no interest in OLD. I‘m kinda hoping I can meet someone the old fashioned way. 
If I wanted 2 men I could just stay married and get a side piece. 😳


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> There is an urge to merge...just not emotionally. 😁


Unfortunately, it's in our DNA to attach emotionally. I don't think what you are looking for is realistic. That's just my opinion. I sure as heck had no desire or interest in having sex with anyone after my husband died. There has to be some degree of involvement/attachment when it comes to sexual partners. At least, for me. If I just want to get laid, I supposed I could go to a bar and pick up some guy I hit it off with for the evening. Back in my college days, I remember getting up in the morning and finding some stranger in my kitchen drinking coffee. My roommate hooked up that way a lot since she wasn't looking for any deeper relationship. Fine by me.

Of course, that was a very long time ago. Back in the era when we used to keep a roach clip on our car visor so we could toke up whenever the mood hit. So I have no idea if that's the way people still go about hooking up for sex without emotional attachment. I haven't been in a bar in years.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> Unfortunately, it's in our DNA to attach emotionally. I don't think what you are looking for is realistic. That's just my opinion. I sure as heck had no desire or interest in having sex with anyone after my husband died. There has to be some degree of involvement/attachment when it comes to sexual partners. At least, for me. If I just want to get laid, I supposed I could go to a bar and pick up some guy I hit it off with for the evening. Back in my college days, I remember getting up in the morning and finding some stranger in my kitchen drinking coffee. My roommate hooked up that way a lot since she wasn't looking for any deeper relationship. Fine by me.
> 
> Of course, that was a very long time ago. Back in the era when we used to keep a roach clip on our car visor so we could toke up whenever the mood hit. So I have no idea if that's the way people still go about hooking up for sex without emotional attachment. I haven't been in a bar in years.


Well I don’t mean not liking the person. Enjoying their company etc. I’m not going to screw just anyone. There has to be attraction and respect. I just have no desire to have another marriage like relationship. 
One of the reasons affairs are fun is there are no daily life stressors that come into play.
I suppose I could say I would just like to date a chill guy for a realllllly long time. 😁


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I wonder how many men simply say what they think women want to hear. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I wonder how many men can't figure out what women want them to do or say.

You are something of an enigma. You want a monogamous relationship but want to control the limits of how it evolves. Problem is, we're not pre-programmed robots that will respond predictably to a given situation. Or maybe we are, but the programming is so complex, and so full of responses based on weird past experiences, we just can't know ahead of time everything we feel we need to.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Casual Observer said:


> You want a monogamous relationship but want to control the limits of how it evolves.


Yep. My sentiments exactly. @Torninhalf - Perhaps you should simply not ponder what is nothing more than a speculative situation right now. Again, from my own personal experience, I was so damn glad to just be able to live in peace & quiet that I couldn't be bothered worrying about tomorrow or what-if scenarios.

My husband died six years ago. Sure, there are times when I would like to go to dinner with an interesting man. Hell, it will be three years in August since I've even set foot in a restaurant. But the need for such things is temporary. What IS permanent is I have peace in my home. I do what I want, when I want. I don't have to be bothered with another person's issues. Selfish? Perhaps. But the great thing about my lifestyle is I don't care if it's selfish or not. And I really enjoy my life, even if I never go out to eat again.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I wonder how many men can't figure out what women want them to do or say.
> 
> You are something of an enigma. You want a monogamous relationship but want to control the limits of how it evolves. Problem is, we're not pre-programmed robots that will respond predictably to a given situation. Or maybe we are, but the programming is so complex, and so full of responses based on weird past experiences, we just can't know ahead of time everything we feel we need to.


I don’t think I want to control it as much as I know what I don’t want.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Prodigal said:


> Yep. My sentiments exactly. @Torninhalf - Perhaps you should simply not ponder what is nothing more than a speculative situation right now. Again, from my own personal experience, I was so damn glad to just be able to live in peace & quiet that I couldn't be bothered worrying about tomorrow or what-if scenarios.
> 
> My husband died six years ago. Sure, there are times when I would like to go to dinner with an interesting man. Hell, it will be three years in August since I've even set foot in a restaurant. But the need for such things is temporary. What IS permanent is I have peace in my home. I do what I want, when I want. I don't have to be bothered with another person's issues. Selfish? Perhaps. But the great thing about my lifestyle is I don't care if it's selfish or not. And I really enjoy my life, even if I never go out to eat again.


I am sorry for your loss. I don’t think you are being selfish at all. There is no price tag on peace. 😁


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t think I want to control it as much as I know what I don’t want.


You won't have that choice because "what I don't want" may evolve organically. You will naturally try to squash it, to tell him it's not what you're looking for, as the relationship continues. Because you want everything else, just not whatever it is that's coming up. And that, my friend, is control.

Either that or the second you see something you don't like, you don't engage in conversation, you just tell him sorry, that's it, you're outta here.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> You won't have that choice because "what I don't want" may evolve organically. You will naturally try to squash it, to tell him it's not what you're looking for, as the relationship continues. Because you want everything else, just not whatever it is that's coming up. And that, my friend, is control.
> 
> Either that or the second you see something you don't like, you don't engage in conversation, you just tell him sorry, that's it, you're outta here.


It could evolve. I just don’t see me ever having feelings for someone that would make me change my stance.


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## PreRaph (Jun 13, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> It could evolve. I just don’t see me ever having feelings for someone that would make me change my stance.


Don't try to predict your own future. You do not know how you will feel in a year's time. Companionship is great. If I were single/divorced, would I be willing to see a woman just for companionship and chilling out? Of course I would, provided we had things to share. Having female friends is great. Yes, the possibility exists that I may end up harboring stronger feelings. I'll cross that bridge. . .

Just try it and see. Don't assign too many restrictions to start. You can make it clear that emotionally you're exhausted. Men can understand that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PreRaph said:


> Don't try to predict your own future. You do not know how you will feel in a year's time. Companionship is great. If I were single/divorced, would I be willing to see a woman just for companionship and chilling out? Of course I would, provided we had things to share. Having female friends is great. Yes, the possibility exists that I may end up harboring stronger feelings. I'll cross that bridge. . .
> 
> Just try it and see. Don't assign too many restrictions to start. You can make it clear that emotionally you're exhausted. Men can understand that.


That’s it! Emotionally exhausted with no room for more drama ever. 😂


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

PreRaph said:


> Don't try to predict your own future. You do not know how you will feel in a year's time. Companionship is great. If I were single/divorced, would I be willing to see a woman just for companionship and chilling out? Of course I would, provided we had things to share. Having female friends is great. Yes, the possibility exists that I may end up harboring stronger feelings. I'll cross that bridge. . .
> 
> Just try it and see. Don't assign too many restrictions to start. You can make it clear that emotionally you're exhausted. Men can understand that.





Torninhalf said:


> That’s it! Emotionally exhausted with no room for more drama ever. 😂


I think this pretty much nails it. Lay down the expectations so there won't be surprises. It doesn't mean things can't change; just that, right now, you can't see that happening. 

And get the privacy thing out of the way, because when you throw up stuff like this, there are bound to be questions regarding why. Let it be known up-front what you're willing to talk about, and what you aren't. This of course is also a boundary thing.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You never know what the future holds, just go with the flow. I know people who are in long term relationships, but don't live together, they're very happy.

One couple is in their mid 50's, both divorced. Both have their own homes. They are dinner, travelling and dancing companions. They celebrate family birthdays, weddings, Christmas etc. together. They know each others kids/grandkids, everyone gets along. They are both very happy with the arrangement and have no plans to change it. 

The other couple is a bit older, mid 60's, one divorced the other widowed by suicide. Same type of arrangement, works for them, no reason it can't work for you too


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> I think this pretty much nails it. Lay down the expectations so there won't be surprises. It doesn't mean things can't change; just that, right now, you can't see that happening.
> 
> And get the privacy thing out of the way, because when you throw up stuff like this, there are bound to be questions regarding why. Let it be known up-front what you're willing to talk about, and what you aren't. This of course is also a boundary thing.


The revealing, opening up to another person with the truth of me will be the hardest part.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

frusdil said:


> You never know what the future holds, just go with the flow. I know people who are in long term relationships, but don't live together, they're very happy.
> 
> One couple is in their mid 50's, both divorced. Both have their own homes. They are dinner, travelling and dancing companions. They celebrate family birthdays, weddings, Christmas etc. together. They know each others kids/grandkids, everyone gets along. They are both very happy with the arrangement and have no plans to change it.
> 
> The other couple is a bit older, mid 60's, one divorced the other widowed by suicide. Same type of arrangement, works for them, no reason it can't work for you too


That sounds great!!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Never say never.


I said never once. I acted with zealous conviction and the dedication that only the truly devoted and insane can achieve.

Then God laughed as a tiny brunette came into my field of vision and I realized that I would destroy worlds for her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm just sorry you were hurt like this.

I hope you are healed of your pain and have so much joy in your future.🌹


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> There is an urge to merge...just not emotionally. 😁


You know...

Men hate hearing that.
It makes them feel inadequate, maybe, feel used. 

Nothing new here, except the open expression of 'this' freedom is now uttered by women.

Both sexes do this, BTW. 
Wham-bam, next.

Have at it...


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂
> 
> Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> ...


Hey chick, I tried to look for that when I just started dating, bc like you, I knew I wasn't ready for a real relationship. I think I sleeping with multiple men or with a man knocking through women is gross, so I tried to find an exclusive FWB. That failed, and I never care to do that again. 

I decided to try dating for real, thinking it would take some time to meet someone that knocked my socks off. In most people's opinion, it was too soon, but after a decade of a sexless marriage, I had an overwhelming "urge to merge". 

Anyway, my bf and I were nuts about each other from the get go. He knew my situation and wanted to give us a shot anyway, even though he was looking for a serious relationship. He knows my priority is finishing grad school and restarting my career. We've been seeing each other about 14 months now, he's been incredibly kind and patient.

I don't want to take care of a man child, be the default domestic partner or be trapped in again sexless situation ever again. We've had frank discussions about what we want, my concerns and he understands my hesitation, he's been down the same road.

Keep in mind, the people who are inclined towards FWB may not have the same intent, so be very clear and agree on the rules of engagement beforehand. I found out I could not separate emotions from sex, so that was not for me. Ideally, try to find someone with similar circumstances.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> I'm just sorry you were hurt like this.
> 
> I hope you are healed of your pain and have so much joy in your future.🌹


Thank you for that. I do think I am starting to heal. I also think that life has a way of revealing truths we never realized we needed to see. For the longest time I attributed my worth by what I did for others to the exclusion of my needs. I don’t regret the things I have sacrificed for my children and I am starting to forgive myself for the things I sacrificed for my STBXH. I realize now that “no” is actually a complete sentence that needs no explaining. I, for so long only desired peace...joy was not even in the equation. Perhaps it is time to dream a little bigger eh?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> You know...
> 
> Men hate hearing that.
> It makes them feel inadequate, maybe, feel used.
> ...


Would men really feel used with a situation such as the one I propose?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Hey chick, I tried to look for that when I just started dating, bc like you, I knew I wasn't ready for a real relationship. I think I sleeping with multiple men or with a man knocking through women is gross, so I tried to find an exclusive FWB. That failed, and I never care to do that again.
> 
> I decided to try dating for real, thinking it would take some time to meet someone that knocked my socks off. In most people's opinion, it was too soon, but after a decade of a sexless marriage, I had an overwhelming "urge to merge".
> 
> ...


Hey lady! The separation of emotions from sex really has not been something I could have ever seen myself doing until the last few years. Perhaps I over estimate what I am capable of in that regard. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> I would want exclusivity. I’m not young. I’m not looking for someone who wants a family.


Dont see you finding someone who you keep at more than arms length and see occasionally, sex occasionallyand oh by tge way, i dont want you with any ine else or looking for someone to experience life with.

Otherhand. Say you find one, any you start wanting more. He has other committments this weekend. Maybe catch you Tuesday. You cant expect them to be at your beckon call. 

If you find one willing to be just FWB i would wonder if he has a sexless wife at home and you're a side chick. Or if you start from beginning that all you really want is FWB and start wanting more, then you run risk of him being willing to hookup with you but to him you are not marriage material. A guy who is a LTR type guy may start out with you, but would also be looking for the one who wanted to have it all and then end the FWB thing.

Say you find this guy, what happens when an issue happens at home. Surely you would just pay a handy man or plumber to fix whatever and not try to call FWB to come do some husband type duties for you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> Dont see you finding someone who you keep at more than arms length and see occasionally, sex occasionallyand oh by tge way, i dont want you with any ine else or looking for someone to experience life with.
> 
> Otherhand. Say you find one, any you start wanting more. He has other committments this weekend. Maybe catch you Tuesday. You cant expect them to be at your beckon call.
> 
> ...


Trust me when I say I am not concerned if I am “marriage material”. I don’t ever want to be married again. I’m going to retire soon and start collecting my pension. 😁😉
As to being someone’s side chick...I will make sure anyone I enter into a “relationship” is not married. I became an amazing detective over the years so that won’t happen.
Certainly there are all sorts of scenarios that could play out. 
I just know moving forward my heart will be the very last thing I give to someone.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Would men really feel used with a situation such as the one I propose?


If you fete them, eff them and then dump them, uh, what da ya think?

Many men are possessive. I see that as a good thing for society, maybe, not so much for every individual.

I am assuming you would be 'semi mating' with men around your age, say, 48 to maybe, 60.

Men this age are obviously more mature and more likely to seek a monogamous partner, even if marriage was not sought.
A LTR arrangement.

It all depends on the type of man or men you want to date. 

Quality men think and act differently than men only interested in sex and your money, and any possessions that might be available to them.
They also want your company, that companionship.

The type of man you meet in a bar, might only be interested in a romp in the back of his car, a cheap hotel.
Or, how many drinks you buy for him, and what food you can pack into his belly.

Men, their belly and balls, they count for a lot. 
Nothing really wrong in that, but be aware of this. 

There is more to life than sex and food (and drink).
But, who does not like those?

AND.....

As we have learned on TAM, beware of any man who does NOT want to bed you.
Why would that be?

Wanting and not wanting, from men, from women.
Wanting is reciprocal... you want, your man wants.

And wants are not singular, they are a collection.
His and hers.

This is where compatibility comes into play.

It cannot be all about you. If it is, every relationship will fail.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Women's greatest asset, (no pun coming!) is how they make a man feel.

In every imaginable sense.

The reverse is true, of course. 
Ladies want to feel loved and needed, respected, admired. 

Then there is the sexual aspect. Some make this their priority, others put it high on the list.

My opinion? A partners personality should be the highest priority.
A compatible personality, drama free, yes!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I have written this before.
A passionate person is great to be around, and often great in bed.

What about in normal times, those quiet times?
Say, when driving long distances with them.....

Is this person soon seen as being obnoxious, and too much to deal with?

Dating a dull person does not present this problem.
But then, instead of the anxiety ones gets from a passionate person, you get that boredom.

Love making time with a nice but dull person could then become a chore.

Picking a personality type is complicated.

If you are a high drama person, and cannot desist from this 'mode', stick to dating.

.......................................................................
The problem with dating, it is always subject to chance. 
Will you meet that special person?

It is all about timing, and luck. 

NO! Never that luck. It is whatever fate that has been allotted to you.

We are all pawns. Gears in the clock.

We likely overlook what is ultimately good for us in our search for some better offer.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We are only as special as others perceive us.

Unfortunately.

And, only as special as that fate of ours permits.

Damn it!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> I have written this before.
> A passionate person is great to be around, and often great in bed.
> 
> What about in normal times, those quiet times?
> ...


Are you saying I’m dull. 😳😉


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

To me you are getting way ahead of yourself. 

I don't think you're living alone yet? If you are not, then you are skipping some important steps.

You have to live alone for a while and then decide what you want. 

You haven't experienced sleeping next to the TV remote, or having a Netflix marathon wearing pj's all day and leaving empty boxes of chinese all over the living room. You don't know what it is like to be single and alone yet. Why don't you step back for a minute, and figure out what you want to do for yourself, by yourself. Do you want to study something? Do you want to join a group? Do you want to volunteer? 

What are your plans for when you move out? What are you going to do for fun? 

Living alone should help you figure out what you want in your future and who knows? You might want to date and get serious with someone again.

My divorced step-MIL was dating a man for over 15 years, both were in their sixties. They never moved in together. They enjoyed trips and weekly dates. One day he comes to see her to tell her he hasn't stopped loving his high school sweetheart and he's confused! WTF? They broke up. She was brokenhearted, of course. Months went by, and she met another gentleman at her church. The guy was very nice and helpful. A year later they got married. She was 70, he was in his late sixties. Five years later, they are still happily married. 

You just never know what the future holds! Why don't you go with the flow and enjoy what is coming your way. Keep yourself busy, don't overdo it, enjoy and love yourself first. Don't worry about dating or the rules of dating yet. Give yourself some time and space. Figure out who you are now. You haven't been single since you were 17!! 

Go on and have fun! I wish you the best in this new chapter of your life!


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## GC1234 (Apr 15, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂
> 
> Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> ...


I think there are men that would certainly be with someone and not ever marry. I think in your position, I would feel the same as you. My husband and I always talk about if we divorced or God forbid someone dies, we wouldn't. I have had bad family experiences with that, and I know I'm biased, but would not want someone who may be an a-hole to my kids.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

pastasauce79 said:


> To me you are getting way ahead of yourself.
> 
> I don't think you're living alone yet? If you are not, then you are skipping some important steps.
> 
> ...


I’m not moving anywhere and I have no plans to leave Chinese food containers all over my living room. 😂
I have lived alone already as he was gone for 6 months. In reality I live alone even when he is here. It’s been 3 years since his affair came to light. I’ve had time to process all the stages of grief that one goes through after fidelity. 
Im not worried about dating, I was simply wondering since it has been so long what the waters look like. 😂
I appreciate your well wishes very much!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> So in your estimation most men will be looking for long term?


Were I single today, that arrangement would be outstanding. I have another friend in his 60's who told his current exclusive girlfriend that they would never live together and never get married. 

So the answer, in your demographic, depends on what you mean by "most". The guy looking for what you want may not be the majority, but they are not unicorns either.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I doubt you will find a long term, honestly monogamous relationship of the type you want.
> 
> As discussed, a very high quality man who will stay true to the monogamy clause is _very likely_ to want more of a full relationship... and there will be a ton of women more than willing to provide it to him.


I think your sample size or location is too small. I know high quality men, usually divorced, who have not given up on the benefits of a long term relationship but don't care for the marriage or living together part.,


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Are you saying I’m dull. 😳😉


Huh?

I have never met you.

So, not at all !

Many people are rather dull, which is fine, they do not poop everywhere they shouldn't.

Shiny people hurt your senses, after a while.
Well, maybe...


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Were I single today, that arrangement would be outstanding. I have another friend in his 60's who told his current exclusive girlfriend that they would never live together and never get married.
> 
> So the answer, in your demographic, depends on what you mean by "most". The guy looking for what you want may not be the majority, but they are not unicorns either.


I kinda think it is a win win. 😂


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> Huh?
> 
> I have never met you.
> 
> ...


😂 I was just playing with you.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anyone offering advice here who a) isn't approaching or beyond 60 or b) hasn't gotten out of a multi-decade marriage and c) is not a bit of an introvert may not have a full grasp of your position here.

Marriage over that long upholds you, but it also wears on you, even a good one. Having done it for most of your life, especially if you married young, makes it easier to say "I have fully experienced that station in life and do not need to revisit it again". You have the opportunity to enjoy the freedom of your 20s you may have missed at the other end of your life, when you are more comfortable in your own skin. 

Don't let anyone project their needs onto you if this is the path you really want to follow. Find a man who has lived alone enough to know he doesn't mind it, who has hobbies and interests that do not require you (but can include you, if desired). And yes, of course, be open to it becoming "more" if that feels organic and right.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

So, the collective answer to your question, is yes, there are men who would be happy with your 'terms'.

If you decide to remain exclusive, even better.
No hiding, no deceiving.

......................................................................................................

If not, keep that fact to yourself.
When your present partner comes around, wash the other dudes scent away.

Do that, and maintain eye contact most of the time. Make him feel he is all you need.

This multi-dating might be more stimulating, ah, but potentially messy, a disaster in the making.
No one likes to be lied to.

A sure way to unjustly hurt another fellow man.

Yes, you could be honest (admitting, to dating others) but do not be surprised when your favorite puppy runs away.

....................................

Your choice.


Problem solved.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> You know...
> 
> Men hate hearing that.
> It makes them feel inadequate, maybe, feel used.
> ...


Use me up...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I like @Cletus 's answer.

Go slow, take your time. Enjoy your new single self.

Smell the roses and (some of) the jock straps.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> Anyone offering advice here who a) isn't approaching or beyond 60 or b) hasn't gotten out of a multi-decade marriage and c) is not a bit of an introvert may not have a full grasp of your position here.
> 
> Marriage over that long upholds you, but it also wears on you, even a good one. Having done it for most of your life, especially if you married young, makes it easier to say "I have fully experienced that station in life and do not need to revisit it again". You have the opportunity to enjoy the freedom of your 20s you may have missed at the other end of your life, when you are more comfortable in your own skin.
> 
> Don't let anyone project their needs onto you if this is the path you really want to follow. Find a man who has lived alone enough to know he doesn't mind it, who has hobbies and interests that do not require you (but can include you, if desired). And yes, of course, be open to it becoming "more" if that feels organic and right.


You are spot on...I have fully experienced that...I know it comes off to some as cold but it’s just the opposite. I want to enjoy someone without the expectations. Hard to fully articulate.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

SunCMars said:


> So, the collective answer to your question, is yes, there are men who would be happy with your 'terms'.
> 
> If you decide to remain exclusive, even better.
> No hiding, no deceiving.
> ...


I can’t see myself seeing multiple men at a time. I value fidelity.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I can’t see myself seeing multiple men at a time. I value fidelity.


Why?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

You'll have to meet and date more than a few to find one. That doesn't mean you have to sleep with them.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> You'll have to meet and date more than a few to find one. That doesn't mean you have to sleep with them.


Mistakes will be made, or rather miss takes.

Think, taking a photo, then seeing it flawed, taking another, then another.

Men, can be those negatives discarded.

A date or two or five, may be perfect, then comes the wick dipping.
At that point, you see the error in your choice.

Easy to say, that....no sex.

Men are going to be pushy, with you expecting this.

Yes, you may at first resist, then, after some times relent.

You do not want to lose a (so far, *felt) good prospect.

Relenting can become a (feel good) habit, not anything a Nun would cover herself with!!



*literally felt, pressing against you in an embrace.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I have some fears that she may believe anything they say if they're acting all lovey. I hope I'm wrong but she hasn't dated since she was 17.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> Why?


Why won’t I see multiple men at the same time? Because I want a sexual relationship.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I have some fears that she may believe anything they say if they're acting all lovey. I hope I'm wrong but she hasn't dated since she was 17.


Well me believing anything anyone says is doubtful. I have lived long enough and experienced enough to know that humans aren’t all that truthful. 😁😉


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

A lot of women just want to believe a guy is sincere though, even me. I've been fooled before. there's a remarkable number of women who still believe if that if they act always lovey and like they're in love when they're leading up to and having sex that that means they're sincere. And all that means is they're in love with sex.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Any chance you have a good enough social network that you could just date guys that other people that you know know well? It would sure beat random dating. because hopefully your friends or family wouldn't recommend someone they knew was a POS.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Any chance you have a good enough social network that you could just date guys that other people that you know know well? It would sure be random dating. because hopefully your friends or family wouldn't recommend someone they knew was a POS.


Not really. I’m a bit of a loner and to be honest I know my needs better than my friends.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Torninhalf said:


> Well me believing anything anyone says is doubtful. I have lived long enough and experienced enough to know that humans aren’t all that truthful. 😁😉


This sounds like a jaded answer, but I agree, and that's not a bad thing.

Getting older takes off the blinders but it also allows us to be more forgiving of ourselves and others. Expecting everyone including ourselves to live up to this high-minded standard of perfection is for the young folks. Learning to live with, love and most importantly forgive others, warts and all, is a grace that comes with experience. At least you won't make the mistakes of the past in thinking any prospective partner to be some paragon of virtue. He'll be a human, with faults, just like you.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Not really. I’m a bit of a loner and to be honest I know my needs better than my friends.


I know that's often the case. But it does kind of help to just meet them on a social basis instead of a blind date basis because you just increase your network that way. I certainly wouldn't have let my mother choose a man for me!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Cletus said:


> This sounds like a jaded answer, but I agree, and that's not a bad thing.
> 
> Getting older takes off the blinders but it also allows us to be more forgiving of ourselves and others. Expecting everyone including ourselves to live up to this high-minded standard of perfection is for the young folks. Learning to live with, love and most importantly forgive others, warts and all, is a grace that comes with experience. At least you won't make the mistakes of the past in thinking any prospective partner to be some paragon of virtue. He'll be a human, with faults, just like you.


I don’t think I made mistakes in the past. I dated my STBXH for years before we married. My only mistake was not leaving him when I discovered his affair. For thinking I could fix this like everything else over the decades.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I know that's often the case. But it does kind of help to just meet them on a social basis instead of a blind date basis because you just increase your network that way. I certainly wouldn't have let my mother choose a man for me!


Neither would I! 😂


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I don’t think I made mistakes in the past. I dated my STBXH for years before we married. My only mistake was not leaving him when I discovered his affair. For thinking I could fix this like everything else over the decades.


Have you figured out your timeline for separation/divorce? What’s your plan? 

I think you’re going to do amazingly well. I think the first thing you should do is make a lot of good friends and then start searching for Mr. Right (now).


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## So Married (Dec 18, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I also have no interest in OLD.


For real. Get a young, hot one. Plenty that wouldn't mind a friend with benefits situation with an experienced, mature, lady. 

I'm closer to your age, but my mother got divorced due to my father cheating on her. Soon after, she only dated younger guys and made no pretense about wanting anything serious from them. A lot younger. Go Mom. lol


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Have you figured out your timeline for separation/divorce? What’s your plan?
> 
> I think you’re going to do amazingly well. I think the first thing you should do is make a lot of good friends and then start searching for Mr. Right (now).


Honestly I am ready to pull the trigger right now. He knows it’s coming. I can see it in his eyes. He is just holding out hope. We got some bad news about his younger sister this weekend so I think I’m going to hold off a bit. We don’t fight anymore so that’s is a plus. Things are very quiet at the moment so I will take it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

So Married said:


> For real. Get a young, hot one. Plenty that wouldn't mind a friend with benefits situation with an experienced, mature, lady.
> 
> I'm closer to your age, but my mother got divorced due to my father cheating on her. Soon after, she only dated younger guys and made no pretense about wanting anything serious from them. A lot younger. Go Mom. lol


I meant on line dating. OLD. 😂
I find men of all ages attractive. 😉


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I can’t see myself seeing multiple men at a time. I value fidelity.


Dating a couple at a time may become more comfortable as time goes by.
Because dating doesn't mean sleeping with them.

Do what fits your style! You're ready.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Dating a couple at a time may become more comfortable as time goes by.
> Because dating doesn't mean sleeping with them.
> 
> Do what fits your style! You're ready.


I’m assuming I’m going to have to test drive one or 2. 😂


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m not moving anywhere and I have no plans to leave Chinese food containers all over my living room. 😂
> I have lived alone already as he was gone for 6 months. In reality I live alone even when he is here. It’s been 3 years since his affair came to light. I’ve had time to process all the stages of grief that one goes through after fidelity.
> Im not worried about dating, I was simply wondering since it has been so long what the waters look like. 😂
> I appreciate your well wishes very much!


You need a divorce party then!!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

pastasauce79 said:


> You need a divorce party then!!


As a bit of an introvert that sounds petrifying 😂😂😂😂


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Thank you for that. I do think I am starting to heal. I also think that life has a way of revealing truths we never realized we needed to see. For the longest time I attributed my worth by what I did for others to the exclusion of my needs. I don’t regret the things I have sacrificed for my children and I am starting to forgive myself for the things I sacrificed for my STBXH. I realize now that “no” is actually a complete sentence that needs no explaining. I, for so long only desired peace...joy was not even in the equation. Perhaps it is time to dream a little bigger eh?


I didn't have children, but I did this for my family. It's time to make you a priority, find out what your needs/wants are, be a little selfish. You don't need to explain yourself to anyone, time to forget about people pleasing.


Torninhalf said:


> Hey lady! The separation of emotions from sex really has not been something I could have ever seen myself doing until the last few years. Perhaps I over estimate what I am capable of in that regard. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Don't worry about multidating if that makes you uncomfortable, or feel like you are defective because you aren't interested bc that's what most people do. You aren't most people , and you alone will have to deal with the fallout so might as well do what you're comfortable doing.

I know you said you're not going to do OLD, how do you plan to meet eligible men as an introvert? I'm introverted to the point I actively avoid people, so OLD was pretty much my only option. I dated a total of 4 men, the first was wildly unsuitable (liar, juggler), the second ghosted, the third was a nice guy who wanted to go out with a woman and was really discouraged, so we went out as friends and the fourth is my bf.

I did not multidate, I talked to a maximum of 3 men at a time, weeded out lackluster or any who weren't particularly interested (maybe their attention was too split amongst multiple women, NEXT!). This vetting process taught me a lot about what I was looking for, how to communicate that effectively and assess interest/deceptive behavior. I met many decent men, had great conversations but we just weren't compatible enough to date. 

Sure I could have done the same thing in person, and been less picky with vetting, but I didn't trust myself not to sleep with them. I was extremely horny and very uninhibited at the time, after years of sexual deprivation, but I didn't want to sleep around and have around string of regrets. Everyone is different, you will know what you are up for, and what feels right/wrong. 

Trust your instincts, be mindful that there are good men in the same boat as you who don't deserve to be used and tossed. Be honest, crystal clear and aware that feelings are capricious and can change in a minute. You might very well want something more substantial when you meet someone who does is for you mentally, physically and emotionally, but he agreed to your terms....



So Married said:


> For real. Get a young, hot one. Plenty that wouldn't mind a friend with benefits situation with an experienced, mature, lady.
> 
> I'm closer to your age, but my mother got divorced due to my father cheating on her. Soon after, she only dated younger guys and made no pretense about wanting anything serious from them. A lot younger. Go Mom. lol


OMG, it totally shocked me how many willing younguns are up for this! 


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Dating a couple at a time may become more comfortable as time goes by.
> Because dating doesn't mean sleeping with them.
> 
> Do what fits your style! You're ready.


Ha! Easier said that done, my friend.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> I didn't have children, but I did this for my family. It's time to make you a priority, find out what your needs/wants are, be a little selfish. You don't need to explain yourself to anyone, time to forget about people pleasing.
> 
> Don't worry about multidating if that makes you uncomfortable, or feel like you are defective because you aren't interested bc that's what most people do. You aren't most people , and you alone will have to deal with the fallout so might as well do what you're comfortable doing.
> 
> ...


I think finding men especially during a pandemic may be difficult. 😂 I’ve stopped going to the gym where there are plenty roaming around. 🤷🏼‍♀️ OLD may be something I would have to look into.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

All I wanted to say is that I love your avatar! 
Her facial expression is gold.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

I think you'll find someone as long as you are willing to keep it casual and understand guys are likely to pop in and out to an extent. What you don't want to do is expect he's going to stay dedicated to you for the long term. Like someone earlier said, guys who want to be committed want a lady who will commit back. I'm not saying it can't happen but it's not likely.

I have a good friend who beats her head against a wall. Making time to date is at the bottom of her list, yet she complains that guys come and go, are not the highest quality, or perhaps already are taken. She essentially wants a commitment without having to give much.

I tried to explain that you're only going to get out what you put in, but it's like talking to a stone. Don't be that person, for your own sake.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Divinely Favored said:


> Dont see you finding someone who you keep at more than arms length and see occasionally, sex occasionally and oh by the way, i dont want you with any ine else or looking for someone to experience life with.
> 
> Other hand. Say you find one, any you start wanting more. He has other commitments this weekend. Maybe catch you Tuesday. You cant expect them to be at your beckon call.
> 
> ...


Yes this exactly. This is the situation my friend mentioned above found herself in and she finds it very unsatisfying. 

I'll add (and I don't mean to sound like a jerk) that I understand such a point of view. If a lady wants me around only when it "works for her", it will happen when it works for her and works for me both. If she expects me to come at her beck and call and then go away yet forsake other ladies, that's not going to happen. Because, doing so would be accepting that her wants and needs matter more than mine - that I am inferior.

And there's no woman hot enough to treat me as inferior. Ever.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Were I single today, that arrangement would be outstanding. I have another friend in his 60's who told his current exclusive girlfriend that they would never live together and never get married.
> 
> So the answer, in your demographic, depends on what you mean by "most". The guy looking for what you want may not be the majority, but they are not unicorns either.


The problem is not finding what she is looking for, as long as she is willing to accept she won't get more than that from him. Just in knowing and talking to people, that seems to be the problem.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> That is true but given the divorce rates and let’s face it the drama we see here in many marriages, I don’t like the odds. 😂


This I completely understand. That's why even though I do want a relationship again, I'm not going to act like I'm a 20-something youngster starting from scratch. I have limitations on what I will do - I think everyone does.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Livvie said:


> I doubt you will find a long term, honestly monogamous relationship of the type you want.
> 
> As discussed, a very high quality man who will stay true to the monogamy clause is _very likely_ to want more of a full relationship... *and there will be a ton of women more than willing to provide it to him.*


100%. Most ladies dating want to firm things up with a guy she likes who has something going on. The fact so many women lament (however wrongly) that all the good men are taken speaks for itself.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> This I completely understand. That's why even though I do want a relationship again, I'm not going to act like I'm a 20-something youngster starting from scratch. I have limitations on what I will do - I think everyone does.


Absolutely! We all have limitations. I’m too old and too damn tired to play ridiculous games.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

heartsbeating said:


> All I wanted to say is that I love your avatar!
> Her facial expression is gold.


Right? Her likeness to me is staggering. 😂


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Absolutely! We all have limitations. I’m too old and too damn tired to play ridiculous games.


I'm not sure I would use the term "ridiculous" since that devalues the other person's perspective / wants / needs. But you do have to do what you feel works best for you. 

Personally, my hang-up is finances / security. I've been through a nasty divorce and long layoff. I've pulled out of it and do very well again but in my late 40s not risking having to do it a third time. Now, what's mine will stay mine. A future partner should be self-sufficient and if we cohab she'll have to cover her personal needs while I pay the living expenses (do not want to have someone pay towards a home I'll own 100%).

It is what it is. I know some friends / .family who look down on this mindset - that's why I don't judge. LOL!!


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> I'm not sure I would use the term "ridiculous" since that devalues the other person's perspective / wants / needs. But you do have to do what you feel works best for you.
> 
> Personally, my hang-up is finances / security. I've been through a nasty divorce and long layoff. I've pulled out of it and do very well again but in my late 40s not risking having to do it a third time. Now, what's mine will stay mine. A future partner should be self-sufficient and if we cohab she'll have to cover her personal needs while I pay the living expenses (do not want to have someone pay towards a home I'll own 100%).
> 
> It is what it is. I know some friends / .family who look down on this mindset - that's why I don't judge. LOL!!


Your scenario sounds quite fair. No judgement from me. 😁


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> So there is an active thread here that has really made me think about my future moving forward. I have not dated since the mid 80’s when I met my STBXH so it has been a loooong time to say the least. 😂
> 
> Having been in a long term relationship for decades and the implosion of that relationship has left me changed. Who I once was is gone. I now find myself so insanely jaded if you will. I hear love songs playing and I scoff, that just doesn’t exist.
> 
> ...


OMG I think you are describing 85% of the single and divorced men over 35 years old that are out there.

I’m a little late to this party and haven’t read any of the replies but I would think the vast majority of single/divorced men over 35-40ish are exactly as you describe above and will be more than happy to have some kind of relationship without sharing the remote or someone criticizing how they do their laundry. 

(I never thought about the issues over the remote but yes, if I end up single again, I am never going to share a remote and never have any kind of Desperate Housewife or Bachelor/Bachelorette show or some show where people are signing in front of judges on in my house EVER again!!! 

Now are know there are some guys that will want to remarry and will suck up and allow Bachelor/Bachelorette shows and signing in front of judges shows in order to get the other benefits of marriage. 

But I am sure the vast majority of men over 40 will think they have found a gold mine in a woman that is willing to support herself and let him mix colors in his own laundry and have his own remote in his own house.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Your scenario sounds quite fair. No judgement from me. 😁


Yeah me too. I think "you worry about you and I'll catch the rest" is very fair, especially when there's usually some retirement benefit to pass on.

But some ladies think if they don't get everything, they got screwed. Anyhow, my point is that I've made peace with knowing that my choices mean what I seek (a committed partner / wife) possibly takes longer or never happens.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> OMG I think you are describing 85% of the single and divorced men over 35 years old that are out there.
> 
> I’m a little late to this party and haven’t read any of the replies but I would think the vast majority of single/divorced men over 35-40ish are exactly as you describe above and will be more than happy to have some kind of relationship without sharing the remote or someone criticizing how they do their laundry.
> 
> ...


Well Amen! I really couldn’t see the down side to this for a man. 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> Yeah me too. I think "you worry about you and I'll catch the rest" is very fair, especially when there's usually some retirement benefit to pass on.
> 
> But some ladies think if they don't get everything, they got screwed. Anyhow, my point is that I've made peace with knowing that my choices mean what I seek (a committed partner / wife) possibly takes longer or never happens.


I’m a bit of a realist, especially now after all that has happened the last few years.
Im not going to put my energy into things that have a minimal chance of happening.
I know who I am, what I want for the rest of my days. If someone wants what I am offering excellent...if not no skin off my nose. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Well Amen! I really couldn’t see the down side to this for a man. 😂


I'm not so sure that such a small percentage of men want another committed relationship.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> I'm not so sure that such a small percentage of men want another committed relationship.


Who knows! All I can do is be completely up front with what I want. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DTO said:


> I'm not so sure that such a small percentage of men want another committed relationship.


I don’t know, I feel like there isn’t a timetable anymore once you’ve already had your kids. There is a certain level of freedom not to rush and have the expectations of marriage when that’s all done.

I think dating in 40s and beyond would be the perfect time to find people of this mindset. Also, how many guys are coming out of a crappy marriage (or having been cheated on) and lost half or more of their net worth... pretty sure they have a good reason to want to keep the rest of their stuff and not give someone the chance to get it again. It makes sense to me. I think she’ll find a good pool of men with the same mindset as her.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Who knows! All I can do is be completely up front with what I want. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Just be sure to give yourself lots of space to HEAL. You really can't be sure how you will feel about a new relationship because the one you've been in for so long was deeply hurtful and dysfunctional. Right now you are understandably resentful and bitter! But once you have some time and space from the pain, what you want from another relationship might change and reflect your new outlook.

So instead of wondering if you will find someone who wants the type of relationship you are seeking from a damaged heart, why don't you focus more on healing the wounds that have been inflicted on your inner self, so you can become who YOU truly are, and then seek a partner who fits what you want from an authentic and open heart!!!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DTO said:


> I'm not so sure that such a small percentage of men want another committed relationship.


I think most would actually. I think it’s kind of an urban myth that single men of a certain age are all manwhores or even spinning plates all the time. 

Most normal, average joes are pretty fortunate to get ONE chick that digs him and wants to get down with him on a somewhat consistent basis and most guys are going to be good with that. Especially if she swallows LOL 😆 

Yes there are going to be some diehard players and some who have basically rejected the notion of sexual exclusivity,, but those guys are probably few in numbers and probably stand out like a neon sign. 

Most normal guys are going to be good if they find someone they are compatible with and enjoy being with. 

Just because someone doesn’t want to marry or live with a partner and join bank accounts and mortgages together, doesn’t mean they are screwing half the town. 

Most normal, decent people are content with someone they like and get along with even if they don’t want to get into the entanglements of cohabitation, shared finances and squabbling over the remote again. 

Don’t confuse reluctance towards a lifetime of legal and financial commitment with abject promiscuity. 

Most people are not innately promiscuous.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Who knows! All I can do is be completely up front with what I want. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I think given how you have described what you are wanting, that there will be men lined up down the street. 

Sure, some guys are going to be looking for marriage with all the trimmings again. 

But if you of describe your interests as you have described them here, I think you will be spoiled for choice. 

And as I stated immediately above, I don’t believe that just because a man doesn’t want to put the toilet seat down all the time and doesn’t want to fight over the remote and doesn’t want to enter into traditional marriage again, that that necessarily means he is out trying to screw everything that moves. Independence does not = promiscuity for most men any more than it does for most women. 

You aren’t setting screwing half the town as a goal for not jumping back into marriage and nor do I think most men do either. 

Both men and women may have a bit of a wild period in the days immediately following their divorce, but if they’ve been in dead bedrooms and no intimacy for years prior, you can’t really blame that. 

But most settled back into moreless stable and consistent relationships in time - even if they prefer to maintain their independence. 

IMHO I think your intentions and wishes here are very healthy, realistic and makes sense for people of our age group and station in life (I am mid-50s, kids almost out of the house) 

I think you are going to have a large pool of reasonable candidates that are fine with it and embrace the lifestyle you are seeking. 

Now that I have had a chance to read many of the responses of this thread, I believe the General tone to be overly negative and pessimistic.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I think you’ll do fine.

Now does that mean you will find the perfect, everlasting relationship the day you get your divorce decree?? Probably not.

But if you are enjoying the peace and tranquility and enjoying your independence and enjoying not having to fight for the remote - - - who cares??? Life is good anyway. 

Assuming you are capable of housing and feeding yourself and able to maintain your body temperature at a safe level, who cares that you don’t have a relationship that involves someone in your home 24/7 and sharing financial and legal instruments? 

Friendship, companionship and sexuality- sure!! Who wouldn’t want various degrees of that!

But why would a self supporting 54 year old without minor children need all that other crap that is usually part and parcel of a traditional marriage. 

You’ve already BTDT Sista, why would you need to do it it all again if you don’t have to??

I think people are being overly pessimistic and doom and gloom here. I think their pessimism is more reflective of their own fear and insecurities and social programming than it is of your reality. 

I think what you are describing makes perfect sense for someone in your position and experience in life.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Who knows! All I can do is be completely up front with what I want. 🤷🏼‍♀️


That's the best thing you can do! Of course, be aware that some men will accept your offer and not be honest. Don't ask me how I know...


QuietRiot said:


> I don’t know, I feel like there isn’t a timetable anymore once you’ve already had your kids. There is a certain level of freedom not to rush and have the expectations of marriage when that’s all done.
> 
> I think dating in 40s and beyond would be the perfect time to find people of this mindset. Also, how many guys are coming out of a crappy marriage (or having been cheated on) and lost half or more of their net worth... pretty sure they have a good reason to want to keep the rest of their stuff and not give someone the chance to get it again. It makes sense to me. I think she’ll find a good pool of men with the same mindset as her.


I found this to be the case. People have got to stop with the generalizations, men want this, women want that... I met men who wanted casual, serious, to get married again, some even wanted kids! It's your duty to screen for what you want while being considerate of what they want. 

You've said you're in great shape, so be prepared to be bombarded by men, including ones who don't fit your criteria. Oldshirt was right, they will be lining up, and you will be spoiled for choices from all walks of life, diversity (even young ones). 


LisaDiane said:


> Just be sure to give yourself lots of space to HEAL. You really can't be sure how you will feel about a new relationship because the one you've been in for so long was deeply hurtful and dysfunctional. Right now you are understandably resentful and bitter! But once you have some time and space from the pain, what you want from another relationship might change and reflect your new outlook.
> 
> So instead of wondering if you will find someone who wants the type of relationship you are seeking from a damaged heart, why don't you focus more on healing the wounds that have been inflicted on your inner self, so you can become who YOU truly are, and then seek a partner who fits what you want from an authentic and open heart!!!


She may, she may not. Just be open to possibilities. Your mindset could change with time, especially when you meet men who faced similar circumstances who shared similar dreams. You might want to take a chance when one man blows everything you think you want now to smithereens.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I think most would actually. I think it’s kind of an urban myth that single men of a certain age are all manwhores or even spinning plates all the time.
> 
> Most normal, average joes are pretty fortunate to get ONE chick that digs him and wants to get down with him on a somewhat consistent basis and most guys are going to be good with that. Especially if she swallows LOL 😆
> 
> ...


Promiscuity is not something that appeals to me. One would think with my background I would jump at the chance to “sleep around”..do people say sleep around anymore? 😂
I am aware that the times have changed drastically since I was last single so I will have to navigate it as best I can.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I think given how you have described what you are wanting, that there will be men lined up down the street.
> 
> Sure, some guys are going to be looking for marriage with all the trimmings again.
> 
> ...


I do hope that there may be some men that feel like me. They did the whole marriage thing and it wasn’t the most positive experience so they would rather not enter into that arrangement again. Sadly we are a society of many more marriages being bad than good. I don’t want to be a step mom. I don’t want in-laws etc. It may be a tall order to fill but I’m ok alone so if it happens it is a win-win.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> That's the best thing you can do! Of course, be aware that some men will accept your offer and not be honest. Don't ask me how I know...
> 
> I found this to be the case. People have got to stop with the generalizations, men want this, women want that... I met men who wanted casual, serious, to get married again, some even wanted kids! It's your duty to screen for what you want while being considerate of what they want.
> 
> ...


I hate that you have experienced the dishonesty. I fully expect to be lied to. My STBXH gave me years of practice. 😂


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> One would think a man would be happy with regular sex and no nagging about putting the toilet seat down. 😂🤷🏼‍♀️


Happy with that arrangement - yes, if it’s casual. You’ll probably find lots of men that would be interested in a casual dating scenario like that.

Finding a quality man willing to commit exclusively to it, agreeing to forego other options, with no expectation of developing into anything more - probably not.

It’s the exclusivity/monogamy that will be the challenge. What you are willing to give at this point is great for a casual, dating relationship. But likely won’t offer enough value for most men to be willing to commit exclusively to.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I hate that you have experienced the dishonesty. I fully expect to be lied to. My STBXH gave me years of practice. 😂


Girrrrrrl. I'll have to PM you THAT one. It was beyond belief. ****er had the gall to call me for a week several times a day when I dumped his ass.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> Happy with that arrangement - yes, if it’s casual. You’ll probably find lots of men that would be interested in a casual dating scenario like that.
> 
> Finding a quality man willing to commit exclusively to it, agreeing to forego other options, with no expectation of developing into anything more - probably not.
> 
> It’s the exclusivity/monogamy that will be the challenge. What you are willing to give at this point is great for a casual, dating relationship. But likely won’t offer enough value for most men to be willing to commit exclusively to.


Do all “quality” men want to get married? I think I am a quality woman and I don’t. 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

TXTrini said:


> Girrrrrrl. I'll have to PM you THAT one. It was beyond belief. ****er had the gall to call me for a week several times a day when I dumped his ass.


😂 I’d like to hear a war story! 😁


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> Do all “quality” men want to get married? I think I am a quality woman and I don’t. 😂


I agree with you one this one. 

I think there is a social narrative and a societal standard that a “quality “ man will want to get married and that seeking marriage is a critical criteria of being a ‘quality’ man. 

To put it simply people by default often think traditional marriage and ‘quality’ as one and the same and that if someone is not seeking traditional marriage, then their ‘quality’ is called into question. 

But quality is as quality does and a quality man for you is one that wants connection, shared interests, enjoy each other’s company and willing to have a monogamous sexual relationship, while yet maintaining each other’s independence and autonomy. 

I think that is doable. I think there are many men in your demographic that would be all for that but they just aren’t able to express it as effectively as you have. 

Most men don’t have the self awareness or the vocabulary to express it as well as you and so what comes out of their mouth is statements like, “I’m never marrying or committing again,” or “I’m not going to get locked into a committed relationship” etc etc. and thus come off as not “quality.” 

And yes there are players and intentional plate spinners etc but I think the vast majority of average joes on the street are fine with a consistent, monogamous sexual relationship assuming there is basic sexual attraction and compatibility.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I agree with you one this one.
> 
> I think there is a social narrative and a societal standard that a “quality “ man will want to get married and that seeking marriage is a critical criteria of being a ‘quality’ man.
> 
> ...


I fear I was coming off harsh. I’m not harsh by nature. I do have some edges I didn’t have before but I think I know myself well enough now to know what I am capable of giving moving forward. I would hope there are others like me out there. 😁


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DudeInProgress said:


> Happy with that arrangement - yes, if it’s casual. You’ll probably find lots of men that would be interested in a casual dating scenario like that.
> 
> Finding a quality man willing to commit exclusively to it, agreeing to forego other options, with no expectation of developing into anything more - probably not.
> 
> It’s the exclusivity/monogamy that will be the challenge. What you are willing to give at this point is great for a casual, dating relationship. But likely won’t offer enough value for most men to be willing to commit exclusively to.


Agreed.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> Do all “quality” men want to get married? I think I am a quality woman and I don’t. 😂


marriage, no not necessarily. Lots of guys don’t want to get married again either. But for most men with options, if you want their commitment and exclusivity, you need to offer more of a full-time, full fledged relationship.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DudeInProgress said:


> marriage, no not necessarily. But for most men with options, if you want their commitment and exclusivity, you need to offer more of a full-time, full fledged relationship.


Full fledged? Meaning?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Do all “quality” men want to get married? I think I am a quality woman and I don’t. 😂


Maybe not get married, but probably would like a dedicated partner. I do believe the number of quality guys okay with being consistently available on your schedule and not pursue other opportunities is low.

If I guy needs to be committed to you, yet on your time line, what's in it for him? If you're not going to sacrifice to meet his need, what does he get for waiting around?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Full fledged? Meaning?


Meaning you make each other a priority, instead of one person dictating the when and how. If you want him to meet your needs you need to meet his.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> Maybe not get married, but probably would like a dedicated partner. I do believe the number of quality guys okay with being consistently available on your schedule and not pursue other opportunities is low.
> 
> If I guy needs to be committed to you, yet on your time line, what's in it for him? If you're not going to sacrifice to meet his need, what does he get for waiting around?


It’s not like I’m planning on restricting spending time together. I would want to date someone consistently. Going away for a weekend? Absolutely. I just don’t want to share a home, finances and alike.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> Meaning you make each other a priority, instead of one person dictating the when and how. If you want him to meet your needs you need to meet his.


Obviously I am hoping to find someone who’s needs would be met by having a relationship similar to what I would like. A man that wants to marry in the future isn’t a man for me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Do all “quality” men want to get married? I think I am a quality woman and I don’t. 😂


Hmm. Am I remembering correctly that you aren't divorced yet?

Check back in when you have lived alone for some years. If you haven't lived the single life for a good long while yet, you can't be 100% sure of what you might or might not want.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Livvie said:


> Hmm. Am I remembering correctly that you aren't divorced yet?
> 
> Check back in when you have lived alone for some years. If you haven't lived the single life for a good long while yet, you can't be 100% sure of what you might or might not want.


Nope. Not yet. I have had years however living a life I know I absolutely don’t ever want again. I don’t feel shame for saying I want to retire. I gave my 35 years so as will take my watch and pension.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s not like I’m planning on restricting spending time together. I would want to date someone consistently. Going away for a weekend? Absolutely. I just don’t want to share a home, finances and alike.


That is still a relationship. Exclusivity and consistent time together are hallmarks of a relationship. You can be BF and GF without marriage or cohabitation. 

You had me thinking you wanted someone just on your schedule, yet have him be exclusively yours.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> That is still a relationship. Exclusivity and consistent time together are hallmarks of a relationship. You can be BF and GF without marriage or cohabitation.
> 
> You had me thinking you wanted someone just on your schedule, yet have him be exclusively yours.


Nope. I just want a boyfriend that has no intention on marrying. Someone who likes their own space. 😁


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Nope. I just want a boyfriend that has no intention on marrying. Someone who likes their own space. 😁


That's certainly doable.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

DTO said:


> That's certainly doable.


There are so many wounded people walking around I am bound to meet one like me right? 😂


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Nope. Not yet. I have had years however living a life I know I absolutely don’t ever want again. I don’t feel shame for saying I want to retire. I gave my 35 years so as will take my watch and pension.


Are we talking a Rolex or a Timex? 😂


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

QuietRiot said:


> Are we talking a Rolex or a Timex? 😂


It damn well better be a Rolex. 😂


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> One would think a man would be happy with regular sex and no nagging about putting the toilet seat down.


One would think a man would be happy with regular sex regardless of the other circumstances or conditions. It would have been an objective improvement on the last 5 years of my marriage. 

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> One would think a man would be happy with regular sex regardless of the other circumstances or conditions. It would have been an objective improvement on the last 5 years of my marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I am sorry for your situation. I won’t ask why you stay because I know their are a myriad of reasons why people do. 
The older I get the more imperative it becomes I escape the hell I have imposed on myself.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> marriage, no not necessarily. Lots of guys don’t want to get married again either. But for most men with options, if you want their commitment and exclusivity, you need to offer more of a full-time, full fledged relationship.


As Torn said, that depends on what you are considering “full fledged” relationships. 

Men are generally simpler and easier to please and have less requirements of a relationship than women.

If a guy is enjoying a woman’s company, is having good, consistent sex, and she is generally respectful and agreeable and not complaining all the time, he usually good to go. 

Guys don’t really like hassling over the remote or squabbling over dinner or laundry any more than the OP does. 

I think a lot of guys would be fine with it as long they’re all having a good time and as long as the sex is there. 

Frankly I’m kind of surprised by the negativism and pessimism of this thread. 

I would think what she is describing would be the answer to countless men’s prayers. 

A relationship without legal or financial commitment and while maintaining one’s own domestic autonomy sounds like many a man’s dream come true. 

I’m not sure that people are actually understanding what it is that she is describing.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Hiner112 said:


> One would think a man would be happy with regular sex regardless of the other circumstances or conditions. It would have been an objective improvement on the last 5 years of my marriage.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


That’s kind of the way I am seeing it too. 

I would think if someone were offering some fun and quality time together and regular monogamous sex and emotional closeness but without the domestic and legal and financial commitments and entanglements, I would think men would be falling all over themselves. 

To me this seems like a dream come true and I’m not sure why people have such negative sentiment towards it. 

I think in the upcoming years we are going to be seeing more and more of what the OP is describing in the single/divorced middle aged and above demographics.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s not like I’m planning on restricting spending time together. I would want to date someone consistently. Going away for a weekend? Absolutely. I just don’t want to share a home, finances and alike.


This is Chrystal clear to me, but I think many people are misunderstanding what you are getting at.

It is so ingrained in the collective psyche that either people are seeking traditional marriage and family - or they are promiscuous and only seeking numerous casual hook ups. Sinner vs saint. Chocolate vs vanilla. Chevy vs Ford. Black vs white. Virtuous vs promiscuous. 

What I see you describing is simply autonomous, adult dating and a relationship between independent, autonomous adults where each maintains their own home, finances and legal affairs separately. 

To me that is simply adult dating. 

I didn’t marry until my early 30s. Prior to marrying, I dated autonomous, self-supporting women who maintained their own homes and finances.

They were close, monogamous and steady relationships. 

After being with my now wife for a year or so, we decided we wanted to marry and have a home and family etc, but I was 31 and she was upper 20s. 

Now that I am in my 50s I have no desire for more kids and have no real need to cohabitate or combine finances or have any binding legal constructs between us. 

I would be perfectly happy going back to a steady adult dating scenario and simply enjoying each other’s company and having a pleasurable and robust sex life. 

It makes perfect sense. 

Is it for everyone? Of course not. Some people are going to want to remarry and have all the trimmings of a traditional marriage.

And some people will want to play the field and have numerous casual hook ups.

But I do believe there will be LOTS of men that will be perfectly happy and content with what you are describing.

Will it be fast and easy with perfect guarantees of eternal bliss and happily ever after???? Ha ha. You are a sane, sober adult right that has a clue about the real world right? 😃


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> I fear I was coming off harsh. I’m not harsh by nature. I do have some edges I didn’t have before but I think I know myself well enough now to know what I am capable of giving moving forward. I would hope there are others like me out there. 😁


It's hard to communicate tone in text, I think some people are misunderstanding what you're saying. 


oldshirt said:


> As Torn said, that depends on what you are considering “full fledged” relationships.
> 
> Men are generally simpler and easier to please and have less requirements of a relationship than women.
> 
> ...


I was surprised at the naysayers too. After all, isn't this exactly what most divorced men over 40 claim to want on other threads? These dudes who think only low-quality men will not "settle" for what you're offering are probably projecting their desires onto you, they certainly don't speak for all men. 

Torn, you'll be just fine. Your wants and needs may/may not evolve with time, it's all good, once you're taking great care not to hurt anyone by communicating very honestly and clearly. One step at a time though, file, get yourself squared away and see a therapist for some guidance.

I can attest that helped me clear my mind and accept my new phase in life. You can discuss this as part of therapy, I did with mine and he actually was happy to see me come to acceptance, have a desire for connection, and encouraged me to take steps forward!


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I am sorry for your situation. I won’t ask why you stay because I know their are a myriad of reasons why people do.
> The older I get the more imperative it becomes I escape the hell I have imposed on myself.


I lived on hopium for a long while. As close as I can tell she decided that she was going to leave in 2013 but she needed to go back to school to be able to afford that. That would mark the last time she helped around the house, really. Affection was possible on Ovulation Day (local holiday but it's pretty famous) but nothing untoward could happen the week leading up to it or it would be postponed another month. She told me she was moving out August 2018 and she was in her apartment mid-September. 

I was mistakenly under the impression that I was supporting a wife through a stressful time as she got through school found a job, changed a job, and then transferred again. It would "get better" when she wasn't as stressed, when she settled into her new job, finished paying off the cars, built up her own savings (for the apartment deposit), wasn't helping her friends settle into their house (where she was storing her new furniture), etc.

I don't have the attention or energy to talk to more than one woman (I don't think, I've never tried) and "merging" is something I feel starved for. It has been a very long time since I gave any thought to the possibility that someone besides my kids would help around the house. If I was dating someone and they did something like wash my dishes after a meal I cooked I would probably feel at least mildly uncomfortable. More broadly, I would feel insecure if they were being productive when I wasn't.

My ideal probably includes touching (not necessarily sex but I'll take that too) every day but that might be unrealistic. A hug after work, a hand resting on a hip as we drift off to sleep, some space crowding while cooking supper, etc. I don't really have the desire to comingle assets or anything crazy like that though . 

I certainly understand your desire for your own space and independence. Your desires are probably a lot more attainable than mine.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TXTrini said:


> It's hard to communicate tone in text, I think some people are misunderstanding what you're saying.
> 
> I was surprised at the naysayers too.


I don’t think it’s a matter of tone or being harsh. 

I think a lot of people’s brains simply don’t grasp not being in a traditional marriage or that a consistent, steady monogamous relationship can exist without traditional marriage/cohabitation. 

And I think a lot of people make a knee jerk assumption that a non marital/non cohabitation relationship must be casual, superficial or promiscuous in nature. 

I think over time there will be a shift in the collective consciousness as these autonomous relationships become more and more common going forward.


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## TXTrini (Oct 2, 2013)

Hiner112 said:


> I lived on hopium for a long while. As close as I can tell she decided that she was going to leave in 2013 but she needed to go back to school to be able to afford that. That would mark the last time she helped around the house, really. Affection was possible on Ovulation Day (local holiday but it's pretty famous) but nothing untoward could happen the week leading up to it or it would be postponed another month. She told me she was moving out August 2018 and she was in her apartment mid-September.
> 
> I was mistakenly under the impression that I was supporting a wife through a stressful time as she got through school found a job, changed a job, and then transferred again. It would "get better" when she wasn't as stressed, when she settled into her new job, finished paying off the cars, built up her own savings (for the apartment deposit), wasn't helping her friends settle into their house (where she was storing her new furniture), etc.
> 
> ...


Hiney, just because you can't see it yet doesn't mean it's not realistic. When you're ready, your "urge to merge" will overwhelmingly drive you to seek it. 



oldshirt said:


> I don’t think it’s a matter of tone or being harsh.
> 
> I think a lot of people’s brains simply don’t grasp not being in a traditional marriage or that a consistent, steady monogamous relationship can exist without traditional marriage/cohabitation.
> 
> ...


I was one of those people before my circumstances changed, so I get it. I couldn't see why anyone would ever want something like that. Then my ex-H cheated and I had to start over at 40. I want different things now than I did at 20, so I certainly sympathize with Torn's position on relationships going forward.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> This is Chrystal clear to me, but I think many people are misunderstanding what you are getting at.
> 
> It is so ingrained in the collective psyche that either people are seeking traditional marriage and family - or they are promiscuous and only seeking numerous casual hook ups. Sinner vs saint. Chocolate vs vanilla. Chevy vs Ford. Black vs white. Virtuous vs promiscuous.
> 
> ...


I am sober and I like to think I am sane contrary to what my cheating STBXH has to say about it. His gaslighting was astounding. 😂
I think, for me, at this stage in my life I would simply like to enjoy the company of a man on a part time basis. Maybe it’s selfish, maybe unrealistic but after being in a 37 year relationship I am aware of all the pitfalls of marriage. My STBXH is the only man I have been with sexually so I don’t see myself sampling from the man pool extensively because through it all I still do value monogamy. I think I have a lot to offer a man who has similar views as myself.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> I lived on hopium for a long while. As close as I can tell she decided that she was going to leave in 2013 but she needed to go back to school to be able to afford that. That would mark the last time she helped around the house, really. Affection was possible on Ovulation Day (local holiday but it's pretty famous) but nothing untoward could happen the week leading up to it or it would be postponed another month. She told me she was moving out August 2018 and she was in her apartment mid-September.
> 
> I was mistakenly under the impression that I was supporting a wife through a stressful time as she got through school found a job, changed a job, and then transferred again. It would "get better" when she wasn't as stressed, when she settled into her new job, finished paying off the cars, built up her own savings (for the apartment deposit), wasn't helping her friends settle into their house (where she was storing her new furniture), etc.
> 
> ...


You are still married and living with your wife?


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> You are still married and living with your wife?


No she moved out September 2018 and the divorce was final March 2020.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> No she moved out September 2018 and the divorce was final March 2020.


I’m sorry it didn’t work out. What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger or some crap like that. 😂


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> My STBXH is the only man I have been with sexually so I don’t see myself sampling from the man pool extensively because through it all I still do value monogamy. I think I have a lot to offer a man who has similar views as myself.


 Man pool. You're funny. And I'm sure you have a lot to offer. Just because your husband didn't appreciate it, that doesn't mean some other man wouldn't and don't think it necessarily means marriage for sure.


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