# he won't propose-I'm heartbroken



## polly

My boyfriend and I just passed our 5 year anniversary. I am 33, he is 38. I have been frustrated with the lack of commitment for a long time. We do not live together, so we really are just "dating". I am more than ready to move things forward. He has said that he wants to get married and loves me, but is afraid of being a let down. That he needs to work on his "issues".
Unfortuntely, this issue is diving wedge between us, as I feel rejected and not good enough to be his wife. I can hardly even talk to him or see him without feeling horrible about myself and the situation. I pressure him too much, but I can't seem to stop. I know getting angry with him will not change the situation, but I feel like if I just shut up and accept what he is willing to give at this point goes against everything that is important to me. 
Ha anyone else experience this. Should I just walk away?


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## EternalBacheor

The Hard Truth.

It is too late - he will never marry you. Ever. 

You waited too long and you have spread your legs for the past 5 years to easily and to often without demanding what you want - to be married. As a 33 year old women he is now viewing you as having very few good years left; 40 for you will be knocking on the door very soon.

Back in the day, a long, long, long, time ago (before feminism "set you free") women used to use the promise of sex to entice males to marry them (i.e. you give me this.....I give you that). As unpolitically correct as the method seems today.......it worked. The vast majority of women were married by their early 20's.

To answer your question - unless you enjoy the free sex you are giving out you should walk away..........


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## Corpuswife

Well...I think you may have a problem after 5 years. No engagement or promise of marriage after this many years is a sign of him NOT coming around ever.

I have a guy friend at 50 years of age..never been married. He's had long term relationships 6, 7 years . He could never get to the point of marriage. He's been in counseling and has lately, in the past several years improved. He now has a GF of 6 years (again) and she lives in another state (how convenient). He is now looking at house in her city state. He hasn't purchased anything but this is a big step for him. 

I would highly reevaluate the relationship at this point.


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## swedish

EternalBacheor said:


> As a 33 year old women he is now viewing you as having very few good years left;



:scratchhead:
:wtf:

Extremely intelligent men are well aware of that...once a woman hits 40 it goes from 'good' to 'great'


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## EternalBacheor

You are in a state of complete self-denial if you believe that males (either highly intelligent or not) prefer older women over younger women...........

Which of the following two conditions happen 99% of the time for marriages that are ending?
1) A husband leaves his older wife for a younger woman.
OR
2) A husband leaves his younger wife for an older woman.

The obvious answer is of course #1; husbands leave older wives all of the time for younger women; the inverse rarely occurs. 

The reason for this is rooted in basic biology - by either evolution or by the hand of God the brains of males are hardwired to view younger women in their 20's as MUCH more appealing than older women in their 30's or 40's because younger women are able to successfully pass on the males genes (i.e. have healthy children) while older women are viewed as not likely to pass his genes along (i.e. her age has made her infertile or her age makes it unlikely she will deliver a healthy child). All of this is processed on an unconscience level by the male brain - all he knows is that he can't stop looking at younger women in their 20's no matter how old he gets.

This is why males are excited by the sight of a younger women in her 20's and are ambivent towards older women in their 30's or 40's; no matter how "good to great" she happens to view herself.............

This is the fundemental reason why the original poster to this thread will never be asked for marriage by the guy she he been giving free sex to for the last 5 years..........she is now 33 years old and on a subconscience level her boyfriend is beginning to view her as being on the steep downside of not being able to pass his genes along - she is "drying up" in his mind for lack of a better term very quickly and he will soon be compelled by his hard-wired brain to find a more sutiable (i.e. younger) woman who can successfully move his genes along.

The tragedy is that she put herself in this postion - all she had to do was to keep hers legs crossed and demand a commitment of marriage before opening them. It is too late for that now. Laugh and stick your nose up at the "old way" all you want - the bottom line is that it worked very well - it got males to make the commitment of marraige.


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## EternalBacheor

Atholk said:


> Move on.


If you don't like the thread and the views expressed on it don't read it.


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## Blonddeee

You seem really bitter EternalBacheor... geesh. I think atholk was responding to the post- he said move on... as in she should move on... 
I'd have to agree- not because you are getting older- but because he sounds like he doesn't want the same thing you do- don't settle and don't push him into marriage if that's not what he wants... if he feels like he was "talked" into it then he might resent it or not put forth the effort to make it a happy marriage. You are not too old to find true love and someone who wants to marry you- I think you might be a little to old for eternalbachlor... which is a shame... he seems like such a positive person.


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## QuitaBee

I think if he has "issues" they need to be worked on with him by his damn self. You know he's a good man, you know what you want, and you know you two don't want the same things. Either you wait till your gray and VERY resentful because you waited on him to work on his "issues" and they never got solved and you never got married OR you find someone who recognizes the catch that you are!!!! It doesn't take a whole day to recognize sunshine...and it damn sure doesn't take 5 yrs to recognize your life partner!!


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## QuitaBee

Ever heard the term "Shyt or get up!"


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## dobo

Eternal isn't just a bach from choice. Who'd have a guy with that kind of attitude? He too can be replaced!

Anyway, onward. 

The guy will not marry you and at this point, I wouldn't want to marry him either if I were you. Who wants to have to beg someone to marry them? What's that get you? 

Dump him. Find a guy who can't wait to marry you.

You're wasting your time with him.

But don't be surprised if he marries his next GF. Has ZERO to do with you. Everything to do with him. She probaly won't be extremely happy with him in the end, either. You'll be the only one who comes out a winner in this tale.


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## WantsHappiness

Yes, walk away. 

He’s 38 years old and working on his issues. Are you prepared to wait for as long as it takes (which is probably a minimum of a couple years if he’s just beginning) to find out _if_ he wants to marry you? 

Continuing to pressure him is not an option, don’t do it. I know it’s hard but you have to stop. He knows how you feel. You don’t want a forced proposal anyway, trust me. Bottom line, as you stated, is that you will not be happy in this relationship until it progresses to marriage and there’s no way around that. So don’t go giving any ultimatums but stop pressuring him and set yourself a time table that if you’re not planning your wedding with him by XX date, it’s over. Then stick to it.


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## michzz

It doesn't take five years to decide if one wants to marry.

If what you want is to have children, then this guy is not the one for you. As hard as it is for you to know, he's not as into you as you are into him.

I am sorry. Don't invest anymore energy in this man.


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## carmaenforcer

*polly*

My Wife proposed to me, why are you waiting for him to propose?

I mean, what century are we living in, were a woman can go into outer space, head a corporation, withhold sex even after she is married, and can't bring herself to getting down on one knee? I mean common ladies, years of progress and you can't open a door for a fella or pick up a check or stop complaining about your feelings, where is the progress?

He has probably heard how women stop giving head and sex after they get married, how over 50% of all marriages end in divorce and is trying to wait till that ceases to be important to him before giving it up forever.

Now, I say be romantic and take him to a football game, tail gate him, beer him and give him a night of sex that he has never gotten nor can he hope to get from anyone but the woman that wishes to grow old and die with him and then propose.

I guarantee he will say, yes, yes, a thousand times yes. 

Only more manly, of coarse.


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## QuitaBee

carmaenforcer said:


> *polly*
> 
> My Wife proposed to me, why are you waiting for him to propose?
> 
> I mean, what century are we living in, were a woman can go into outer space, head a corporation, withhold sex even after she is married, and can't bring herself to getting down on one knee? I mean common ladies, years of progress and you can't open a door for a fella or pick up a check or stop complaining about your feelings, where is the progress?
> 
> He has probably heard how women stop giving head and sex after they get married, how over 50% of all marriages end in divorce and is trying to wait till that ceases to be important to him before giving it up forever.
> 
> Now, I say be romantic and take him to a football game, tail gate him, beer him and give him a night of sex that he has never gotten nor can he hope to get from anyone but the woman that wishes to grow old and die with him and then propose.
> 
> I guarantee he will say, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
> 
> Only more manly, of coarse.


If he doesn't want to marry her I doubt her asking him will do the trick! JMHO:scratchhead:


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## carmaenforcer

QuitaBee said:


> If he doesn't want to marry her I doubt her asking him will do the trick! JMHO:scratchhead:


Your absolutely right, it (her proposing) won't change the answer but it will get the question or topic, right out in the open and offer an opportunity to address the issue, seriously and probably finally.

I wasn't aware that he flat out said he didn't wish to get married.
I thought that the OP was just upset as to his not having asked, yet. Am I wrong? Well anyway, her proposing will make him make a decision either way.


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## polly

For what iti is worth, he says he wants to get married, but just hasn't asked. It seems like something always gets in the way-job, school etc. I think he should be able to move things forward. If he loves me and wants to marry me, why would he let these things stand in his way. Anyway, I am getting sick of being put last.


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## Lizzie60

I haven't read the whole thread... but Polly ... I really think that you waited much too long.. but honestly ... do you want to be married (or have married) a guy who isn't into marriage.. 

I totally understand him.. I've never been married.. and never will.. not that it makes any difference in some countries.. (common-law is just as good as marriage)..

You love him... he loves you.. so why do you want to force marriage into his throat.. just enjoy your time with this guy.. 

If you want children.. then this is another story.. you got to live under the same roof... 

So why don't you ask him if common-law would be good enough for him.. maybe he's scared of marriage.

And Bachelor.. since my first separation.. I've ONLY dated much much younger men... some were as much as 31 years YOUNGER... so... this is bs... young men DO love older women.. and in a lot of cases.. they even prefer older over younger.. 

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about..


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## Mommybean

EB has his own issues. TOO funny about the older woman theory. Especially since my H is 6 years younger than me, and he's been thru enough to know that there is NO woman, younger or older, that can compare to me.


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## sisters359

eternal bachelor, the poster who mentioned about how older women are better was referring to smart, mature men, not those stuck in their boyhood who wants a woman whose looks suggest she is fertile still. Human beings are not, fortunately, ruled by their biology any more than they choose to be, beyond the very basic egg carrying vs. egg fertilizing equipment. Your "example" has nothing to do with the women involved, it's all about the choices men make. We women know that as we age, we become so much better than our younger selves--more confident, more sexual, more willing to take chances in life, etc. The man who chooses our younger, stupider, less alive version is an idiot and none of us older women would want him! He couldn't get us if he tried, most likely, because he wouldn't be mature enough intellectually and emotionally to interest us. There are, of course, plenty of very mature men out there to keep us happy, thank goodness!


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## ChCkBzk

Oh, five years. I'm going to say if you were REALLY the one for him and he REALLY wanted to marry you, nothing short the world ending would keep him from putting a ring on your finger. 

I think you've waited way past an appropriate amount of time. Besides, how long are these "issues" going to take to fix? Another five years? Are you ok with that?


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## EternalBacheor

Atholk said:


> I was refering to the OP who had a final question as to wether she should just walk away or not. I think she should move on.
> 
> Ain't about you EB.


Your point is noted and I stand corrected.


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## EternalBacheor

I must make a comment on this posting.

I am not having a difficult life at all; it is my married male friends who are having difficult lives. The best desicion I ever made from both a financial and personal sense of peace perspective is to stay single. To be blunt marriage for males in the United States is a perscription for ruin.

I am on this site as a result of internet searches to assist my male friends who are in the process of losing, or have lost, their homes and personal assets through divorce. It is a tragedy since it is these gentlemen who actually earned the money - not their wives.

These men will be financially ruined for life. 

I am very secure financially and have no problems with finding female companionship; the wealth seems to attract them........


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## EternalBacheor

Polly,

In poker, or other gambling or risk related activites there is something called "Going All In" - you place everthing you have left on a bet, or stock, or stock derviative in the hope that the cards will fall right for you on the next hand and you will regain both your losses and also win the prize you orginally desired. If you lose the game is over.

In regard to your desire to be married to this gentleman you are in this postion now - you have to go "All In". You frankly have little left to entice him with, your age is a huge negative and he is used to you sexually after 5 years (sex is routine at best). By "Going All In" I am refering to completely breaking the relationship off, no dating, no sex, no phone calls (change all of your phone numbers), and leaving no perception of "hope" for him that he will ever be in a realtionship with you again. You must also date other men, or at least lie to him about meeting somebody else.

Risk Assessement:
With your current situation and age this tactic poses no risk to your chances of being married to this man. If he ever has any intention of marrying you it will force his hand - he will find a way to communicate this to you, he needs you, he cannot live without you, he wants to marry you. If he never had any intention of marrying you he will not pursue you and you will have your answer. It is just that simple.

Marriage Timing:
If he should agree to marry you do not, I repeat, do not, chase after your schoolgirl dreams (and sense of female entitlement) of having a large, elaborate wedding. These events take time, cause stress, and will give him an opprotunity to reconsider and come to his senses. You must go for the quick "Vegas Style" wedding - it is just a legally binding as the big affairs. Once you have him on the hook do not waste any time reeling him in.......

Now you may say "But Eternal Bachelor I want him to want to marry me; I don't want to trick him into doing this - he may end up unhappy he married me"..........My reply is as follows - all men eventually end up unhappy they married; it is only a matter of when, not if. Your future husband will simply have that realization sooner than most but the end result is the same for all married men. He maybe unhappy, trapped, and miserable but you will have the husband you seek.

The time for action is now Polly, its time to put feminisum aside and to dust off the old ways used by women of past generations to trap a husband; break it off, change your phone number, play hard-to-get and really try to keep those legs crossed.............


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## ARoomOfOnesOwn

EternalBacheor said:


> all men eventually end up unhappy they married; it is only a matter of when, not if.


Wow, what an absolutely dismal view of things. 

Polly, I know this may come as a little late, but I'm afraid I have to side with EB on this one, though I do not agree that "all men eventually end up unhappy they married." My parents are a case in point, and I have no illusions about their marriage— if anything my mom is less happy than my dad, but she's good at making the best of things and she loves him very much. 

But you do have to go All In. Going All In, though, should not be a ruse to get him to propose— it should be a way for you to move on. At the moment he has no incentive to marry you. You are giving him what he wants and he is not having to offer anything to get it (like, say, "working on himself"— he is not doing that right now, am I right?). I'm in the process of doing this myself. I'm 32 and leaving my 34 year old boyfriend of 5 years (with whom I live). It's terribly difficult, and we still love each other, and get along beautifully, the sex is still great, we respect each other and all of that, but I want children in the next few years and he has been hemming and hawing about commitment for the past three, so I really have no reason to believe things will change. He is great. We had a good run. I hope he finds someone who doesn't demand that he try to be a different person. . . though this morning he suggested couples counselling (first time this suggestion ever came from him). So he appears to be trying to think of ways we can avoid separating. . . but I know that if I stay, he will never change. He will have no reason to. He's finally getting out of the denial stage and beginning to understand that I will really leave him. 

So I guess I am going All In, but to be quite honest I'm more enthusiastic about starting over with someone who doesn't need to work on himself so much. There are people out there who don't need to do that. If you yourself are one of them, it's best to find someone more like you, who can spend their time appreciating your life together instead of trying to glue it back together. This is what I hope for myself, and indeed am already being courted by an adorable 28-year-old! I guess things appear on the horizon when they need to. Good luck, and be strong!


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## 3773519

Listen, I can so relate in some ways...I have been in a relationship for 7 YEARS!!!. We moved in, and have a son together who is now going to be 5!!!!. I have yet to get a ring on my finger. I have given up and am considering of leaving. See atleast your SO(significant other) tells you hes not ready. Mine on the other had has told me yes i wanna marry you, but of course there is a but...and its disappointing....since u are not tied, move on..if u are a good womanfriend( because in ur 30's ur a woman not a girl) then u are still young and able to find someone with the same timeline standards..good luck


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## hoping

EB,

i have major issues with my wife and i still say you are WRONG!! either that or you worded it wrongly? i am unhappy with my wife and with the treatment she gives me - true statement - but to say i am unhappy that i married? that would be a VERY false statement. 

i would hope and pray that your out look is NOT the true norm. be cause, as ARoomOfOnesOwn said, it is VERY dismal.. but it does explain one thing - with a view like that, you are THE eternal bachelor...

and as far as the older women go... hardwired??? WTF??? 20's attractive?? again WTF??? i value some inteligence and wit and MATURITY... and that is some thing that is far to laking in todays stock of 20-25 yearolds... and why not, they don't need it any more, it is politicaly incorrect to call them on it, and the whole time they were growing up they were told by the school and the tv that it is how they are supposed to be... no, if i do leave my wife, i will be looking for a mature woman who can handle responsibilities with out me having to tell her she needs to do these things... regardless of age oh and i have seen a lot of HOT 40+ women 

now, as for the question posted, if it's a problem that he hasn't shown comitment? then perhaps he just has a problem with that? try a smaller commitment first, and work your way up to marriage. and if he refuses even a small commitment then perhaps it is time to move on to some one who wants to commit.. and then again, if you do go, he may change his tune when he sees it really is that important to you.. and then, it's up to you on whether you take him back or not  

god luck


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## scarletblue

You both still have your own apartments....good! You don't want to talk him into marrying you or nag him into it. The other poster was right, that would just lead to resentment. 

I think your boyfriend is happy with the situation the way it is. You apparently love him and think he's "the one". Now, I don't know if he feels that way about you, but he's still with you, right?

My advise to you is, get some outside activities that do not involve him as much. This will be good for your independance and self worth. It may also be good for him to see what life is like with you less in it. A lot of people take stuff for granted and don't appreciate what they have until they don't have it.

I'm not saying play games with him. I'm not saying dump him. Just back off a bit.

On a side note. I am 43 (soon to be 44 apparently my best days are behind me, hahahaha). My husband and I have been together for 7 years, married for 5 this month....and guess what!!!!!......I'M 12 YEARS OLDER THAN HIM!!!!! Oh, you know what else, my 24 year old son is with a woman who is 8 years older than me. Yes this is unusual, but less and less uncommon these days. 

Yes, I believe that men are naturally sexually attracted to younger women. Sex does not a realtionship make (although it can make it a heck of a lot better, lol). As men mature, they look for more than what's on the surface. Age is irrelevant when love is involved.


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## MEM2020

I must comment on EB's post below + his post about games of risk - which I fully agreed with. 

Over 20 years ago - I went "all in" and married my then GF. She has consistently been a wonderful wife - read half wife and half GF. All these jokes about wedding cake and bj's - or wedding cake and libido - I don't understand them. 

And if you ask my wife - she will tell you that she is my highest priority and always has been. 

We had some brutally honest conversations before marriage. What she wanted. What I wanted. 

The way to maximize your upside result in any game of risk - is to go all in. 




EternalBacheor said:


> I must make a comment on this posting.
> 
> I am not having a difficult life at all; it is my married male friends who are having difficult lives. The best desicion I ever made from both a financial and personal sense of peace perspective is to stay single. To be blunt marriage for males in the United States is a perscription for ruin.
> 
> I am on this site as a result of internet searches to assist my male friends who are in the process of losing, or have lost, their homes and personal assets through divorce. It is a tragedy since it is these gentlemen who actually earned the money - not their wives.
> 
> These men will be financially ruined for life.
> 
> I am very secure financially and have no problems with finding female companionship; the wealth seems to attract them........


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## 1nurse

Hi there,
I just wanted to let you know that I really admire you for not moving in and having babies with your boyfriend. You had the good judgement to keep a separate home and not create a child out of wedlock. My personal beliefs. On the other hand you have to do what makes YOU happy and what you deserve. You DESERVE to have a wonderful loving husband if you so choose. I know you love this man and have a history and it's not easy breaking away and starting again. But....would you respect yourself in the end with a forced proposal or sitting around waiting for a marriage proposal until your old and gray? Or you could ask him like someone else suggested. Good luck and be true to yourself girl. :smthumbup:


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## MEM2020

I do think she should break up with him. Tell him nicely that she understands he isn't ready for marriage. She wants to give him the space to focus on his issues and she is going to look for a person to marry. Full stop. 

He can then either respond with a proposal - or they are done. 



1nurse said:


> Hi there,
> I just wanted to let you know that I really admire you for not moving in and having babies with your boyfriend. You had the good judgement to keep a separate home and not create a child out of wedlock. My personal beliefs. On the other hand you have to do what makes YOU happy and what you deserve. You DESERVE to have a wonderful loving husband if you so choose. I know you love this man and have a history and it's not easy breaking away and starting again. But....would you respect yourself in the end with a forced proposal or sitting around waiting for a marriage proposal until your old and gray? Or you could ask him like someone else suggested. Good luck and be true to yourself girl. :smthumbup:


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## Blanca

EternalBacheor said:


> all men eventually end up unhappy they married; it is only a matter of when, not if.


well ya... every one ends up unhappily married at some point. its only those that learn to cycle out of that phase that make it.


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## CBW

Do not trap him, but imagine what would happen if you got pregnant? Maybe even ask him what he'd do, not just guess. If you think or he says that he'd step up and you would all live happily ever after, then stay. If he says or you think he'd be all, "Well, we're not going to get married just because you're pregnant because I'd have to do abc first," then run, don't walk, away.

If you don't even want kids, then you have no reason to be worried about any of this. Just relax and enjoy.

If you do want kids and you think he's really a keeper (which I doubt because he seems too selfish), keep him from ruining your goals. Count back from YOUR dream family. You probably want to be done having children by age 43, so if you want two kids you have to have #1 by 41, and if he doesn't pull the trigger you need two years to find and start a family with Mr Right. So you can keep him from ruining your life goals til as late as age 38. That is assuming that age 43 is okay for child #2 and you only want two, which it's probably not true but you do your own count back. 

If he's really a keeper, give him as much time as you can, but again- I just don't think he's a keeper for you. Good luck, Polly


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## MsLady

OP, do you guys not live together because of your choosing or his choosing? In other words, has he made excuses for moving in together as well?

I agree with EB to go "all in" with a simultaneous genuine intention to move on. 

In fact, if you want to have children some day, I wouldn't even take him back if he came crawling with a ring ... because then you'd find yourself with a husband that's making excuse after excuse not to give you a child ... and those reproductive years are definitely numbered (though not critical yet and you have plenty of time to meet someone else and have children).

If you don't want to have kids, then go "all in" with the option of taking him back if he comes begging with a ring. At that point, it won't matter if he can't make any further commitments (i.e., children).

Honestly, I wouldn't want to marry anyone that wasn't tripping over themselves to put that ring on my finger. I was moved in with my boyfriend (now DH) and he STILL proposed and married me. So, it's not just because he's getting sex ... especially since you're not living together, you'd think he'd want the sex readily available in his bed each night and, still, he doesn't.

And, if he's the kind of person that can't live his life because he's "got issues" then you'll have way bigger problems when you actually live in the same house as him and his "issues" are all over your space each and every day. You've got to trust what people tell you and he's CLEARLY telling you he's not marriage material and that he'll be a sh**y husband. Believe him.

Sorry to say it ... move on.


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## scarletblue

Look at it this way......this is how it's going to be with this guy, forever. Don't ever stay in a relationship hoping that he'll change. Talk about gambling, that is one heck of a gamble.

If you're happy with how things are, stay. If not, then it's time to start moving forward in your life. Life is all about choices. He has the right to choose if he wants to get married, whether you understand it or not. You have the choice if you want to stay and wait around or not. Let him make his choices, and you make yours.


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## joevn

Move on.

If a guy meets a girl he wants to settle with, he'll know very quickly. He may not propose right away, but he will for sure claim her and try to make sure she's his. Including/up to being pretty definite about the future.

Five years...wow. For me, it was 6 months. It's been great for 17 years... (male speaking)


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## EternalBacheor

Dear Mr. Hoping,

I choose to live free or die. 

I believe that God intended for all men to live free and I intend to do just that. From my observations marriage for men today has devolved into a form of slavery; and the chains of such slavery are the threat of financial ruin upon collapse of that marriage.

Marriage today domesticates and pacifies males; it does so to such an extent that men such as yourself accept being mistreated by their wives, they accept being unhappy in their marriage, they accept being nothing more than an income stream for unappreciative and selfish wives, they accept not getting sex anymore, they accept wives who gain 50 lbs of fat within 2 years of their wedding day, they accept being ordered about, given commands and instructions by their wives when they return home from a hard day at work, they accept being placed on schedules, nagged, and insulted. They accept being castrated in a sense.

I accept none of this. I reject it all. You can have it; you can have it all.

Best Regards,

Eternal Bachelor






hoping said:


> EB,
> 
> i have major issues with my wife and i still say you are WRONG!! either that or you worded it wrongly? i am unhappy with my wife and with the treatment she gives me - true statement - but to say i am unhappy that i married? that would be a VERY false statement.
> 
> i would hope and pray that your out look is NOT the true norm. be cause, as ARoomOfOnesOwn said, it is VERY dismal.. but it does explain one thing - with a view like that, you are THE eternal bachelor...
> 
> and as far as the older women go... hardwired??? WTF??? 20's attractive?? again WTF??? i value some inteligence and wit and MATURITY... and that is some thing that is far to laking in todays stock of 20-25 yearolds... and why not, they don't need it any more, it is politicaly incorrect to call them on it, and the whole time they were growing up they were told by the school and the tv that it is how they are supposed to be... no, if i do leave my wife, i will be looking for a mature woman who can handle responsibilities with out me having to tell her she needs to do these things... regardless of age oh and i have seen a lot of HOT 40+ women
> 
> now, as for the question posted, if it's a problem that he hasn't shown comitment? then perhaps he just has a problem with that? try a smaller commitment first, and work your way up to marriage. and if he refuses even a small commitment then perhaps it is time to move on to some one who wants to commit.. and then again, if you do go, he may change his tune when he sees it really is that important to you.. and then, it's up to you on whether you take him back or not
> 
> god luck


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## hoping

EB,

i understand your point of view and i do not entirely disagree with what you said just now. but, i would suggest, that you must have some, perhaps just a slight, belief in the idea of marrriage. if you didn't then why are you here? you must have some one that you could see your self devoting and pledging your life to? or did you simply come here to try and express a hatred for the very idea that this sight is devoted to? 

at any rate, i do hope that who ever you find your self with, you tell them, up front, that you are an old fashioned man and stress the things you value n life... oh and speaking of god and mariage... no sex before your married!!! that is what god intended, is it not?

sorry to taint your thread.. all future responses to this wil be in the form of PM's to EB.....

i hope you are finding the strength you need to move on and are finding the happiness you deserve. good luck to you and god bless.


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## MEM2020

Hoping,

You are missing something - in my humble opinion. And that is very simply this. The initial wedding vows are based on things out of our control - sickness, financial mishaps etc. They do not address the idea of simply not making the effort. YOU cannot improve a marriage if your spouse is not trying as well. One person can't fix a broken marriage. And many, many spouses abuse their partners commitment to the idea of marriage. 






hoping said:


> EB,
> 
> i understand your point of view and i do not entirely disagree with what you said just now. but, i would suggest, that you must have some, perhaps just a slight, belief in the idea of marrriage. if you didn't then why are you here? you must have some one that you could see your self devoting and pledging your life to? or did you simply come here to try and express a hatred for the very idea that this sight is devoted to?
> 
> at any rate, i do hope that who ever you find your self with, you tell them, up front, that you are an old fashioned man and stress the things you value n life... oh and speaking of god and mariage... no sex before your married!!! that is what god intended, is it not?
> 
> sorry to taint your thread.. all future responses to this wil be in the form of PM's to EB.....
> 
> i hope you are finding the strength you need to move on and are finding the happiness you deserve. good luck to you and god bless.


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## hoping

MEM,

i understand that and i do not feel i have missed it at all. i am sorry if i was misunderstood.


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## 123bungee

i'm in a similar state of limbo for 3 years now (i'm 32)...he is not even proposing to live together. we've talked about it, he knows well what my expectations are, and he says that he will live with me, and wants to have family and children one day. but he constantly has "issues" to resolve.

...i found for myself that "going all in" is easier said than done. everyone saying, leave, he's not worthy -- it's never that straightforward ... at least not while you're still in it. i've given myself multiple deadlines for leaving him, but every time i am ready to do it, i think he senses it and tries to fix things. this guy doesnt let me go and doesn't want to commit. so unfair.

i am so afraid to have wasted 3 years....but also so afraid to waste another three....so hard...and i just want a decent relationship.

i admire ARoomofOnesOwn of her firm decision.


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## MEM2020

Bungee,
I would do 2 things:
- Promise him you won't abuse the commitment of marriage. That means that you will be just as loving after as you are now. And that means if sex is great - it stays great - if you are fit - and that is important to him - then you stay fit. This also all applies to HIM. He needs to treat you just as well after as before. 
- Tell him you are going to leave him soon if he is not willing to commit. Don't give him a specific date - let him sweat. And then start evaluating other men. Not dating, evaluating. And then - if you are living together - move out. Don't have to break up right away. But move out and start spending less time together. 

I am a man. Each year that passes his had gets better, yours gets worse. Make your stand now. But be smart about it. 

By the way - there are lots of great wives out there. My wife treated me the same after marrriage as before. In year 20 - she is the absolute best - crazy about her. But his friends are likely telling him that after marriage you will not be so nice. 








123bungee said:


> i'm in a similar state of limbo for 3 years now (i'm 32)...he is not even proposing to live together. we've talked about it, he knows well what my expectations are, and he says that he will live with me, and wants to have family and children one day. but he constantly has "issues" to resolve.
> 
> ...i found for myself that "going all in" is easier said than done. everyone saying, leave, he's not worthy -- it's never that straightforward ... at least not while you're still in it. i've given myself multiple deadlines for leaving him, but every time i am ready to do it, i think he senses it and tries to fix things. this guy doesnt let me go and doesn't want to commit. so unfair.
> 
> i am so afraid to have wasted 3 years....but also so afraid to waste another three....so hard...and i just want a decent relationship.
> 
> i admire ARoomofOnesOwn of her firm decision.


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## 123bungee

So interesting -- thank you for the male perspective. And I like your advice for doing it gradually. I am kind of starting to do that, even though it's very sad, because it's the opposite of what I want to be doing. But has its positive effects for bringing my self-confidence back by evaluating other men.
Cheers MEM - thanks for your kindness.


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