# Friends



## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

Is it possible to reamin friends after divorce? My wife, is the one that wanted out. She keeps saying that she wants to remain friends, and that she wants me in her life. I'm not sure how I feel about this, I think that as long as she is around, I will never truly heal. She was pretty hurt when I deleted her off of facebook, and when I talked about moving an hour away, she tried to talk me out of it. I would love to have her in my life, but as my wife, not as a friend. Plus, I do not know how I will react if I ever saw her with another man. 14 years together is a long time, and I don't know if I can do this.

Has anyone else been through this, and how did it end up.


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## dzd&confused (Nov 27, 2012)

lost hunter said:


> i think that as long as she is around, I will never truly heal.


I think you answered your own question. 
Until that healing takes place maybe distance is what u need. Attempting a friendship immediacy following the wound seems very difficult unless it was mutual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

If you can't handle seeing her with another man, the answer is no.

I can't tell you your wife's true intentions, but I can tell you that a lot of times, the person leaving will offer an olive branch of friendship as a way of a) letting you down gently, and b) trying to ease their own guilt over what they're doing. In some strange way, if you accept this friendship offer, they see it as you condoning and accepting what they've done, therefore they don't have to feel as bad about it.

That's not a true friendship, because both parties are using the other. The walk-away spouse is using the "friendship" to make themselves feel better about leaving, while the left-behind spouse is using the "friendship" to stay attached to their former best friend (and at some level may also be hoping to use friendship to eventually win them back). 

If a breakup/divorce is mutual, amicable, and both parties accept the fact that they weren't meant to be, then I think an immediate friendship is possible. Otherwise, it's not going to work until the left behind spouse has had time to heal and move on.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

If she wants a friend, let her buy a dog!

She had her chance with you


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Don't put yourself through that. You'll never heal.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

Thank you all for the information. I knew what the answer was going to be, but like RSERSEN stated, I just don't want to let go. I have not had contact with her other than signing paperwork in over a month. It is difficult at times, but I agree with all of you. 

Maybe in the future I will be able to be friends, but for now, it is best if I keep my distance.

TOFFER.....She doesn't need to by a dog, she has mine.

Again, thanks for letting me see what I needed to do.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

2ntnuf.....I hear what you are saying, and I agree. I guess I am stilling wanting this relationship to work, and before we were lovers we were friends. But do not worry, I have just spoke with her on the phone, and I told her I am letting go of everything. I said maybe down the road, once I have healed, maybe then we could see if there is a base for a friendship, but if any of my friends would have hurt me like this, I would have beat the crap out of them. But it is hard to throw a 14 year friendship away. So, we shall see.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

lost hunter said:


> Maybe in the future I will be able to be friends, but for now, it is best if I keep my distance.
> 
> *TOFFER.....She doesn't need to by a dog, she has mine.*
> 
> ...


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## rsersen (Jan 30, 2013)

lost hunter said:


> 2ntnuf.....I hear what you are saying, and I agree. I guess I am stilling wanting this relationship to work, and before we were lovers we were friends. But do not worry, I have just spoke with her on the phone, and I told her I am letting go of everything. I said maybe down the road, once I have healed, maybe then we could see if there is a base for a friendship, but if any of my friends would have hurt me like this, I would have beat the crap out of them. But it is hard to throw a 14 year friendship away. So, we shall see.


Good for you man. You're doing the right thing. I know how hard it is - I'm losing my wife and a friend of 15 years, and our dog to boot. But it's the only way to heal.

Don't think of it as throwing away your friendship. You're just stuffing it into the back of the closet for a while. Take time to heal, and when you're ready, dig it back out...and decide at that point whether you want to pick it back up, or throw it away. I think a lot of times, people look back with a clear head and see no reason to want to be friends. But who knows, you and I may be different.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Being friends just because it eases her conscience is toxic for you. It makes you her excuse for her bad behaviour for evermore - and you will both know it at a certain level. Chances are that she will feel guilty about this, too, and turn out to be an abusive friend - either abusing your friendship or forever setting you tests to "prove" your friendship to her so she can feel better. 

If you do want to go ahead and be friends, my advice would be for you to set some boundaries and ground rules and stick to them rigidly. One of the rules should be that you'll do simple things for her that one friend would do for another (providing that is a two-way street) but you won't do anything for her that only a boyfriend, family member or spouse would do for her.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lost hunter said:


> if any of my friends would have hurt me like this, I would have beat the crap out of them.


She has not been friendly. Remaining involved is attachment, not friendship.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

I told her to give me plenty of time, and plenty of space, and when I want to be her friend again, I will let her know. I told her the only contact we will have will be about the pending dissolution. I told her not to ask how my day was, or what I've been up to. Just text me the date and time I need to be at the court house, and I will be there. I told her not to expect me to be happy and talkative at the hearing, I am only there because I have to be. She started to cry, but I held strong, and told her to have a good life, and got off the phone. It was hard, but it was something that needed done.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I actually think I could probably be friend’s w/mstbx but it will be a long time from now, if ever. One of the things I will miss the most after are long marriage is all the conversations, granted they were mostly about him  but I always said he makes a better friend than husband. I think he feels the same about wanting to remain friends because during our last fight he got very upset and asked if I really didn’t want to see him after divorce. He did not like my comment that of course we will see each other for family functions involving our boys and said NO he will be an outcast and remain one. He kept saying after 35 years that’s all I’m going to get.. And I said yes... hurt like hell.. to say it.. But I have to cut him adrift even though I don’t want to.. His life raft is the OW and will be many more OW in the future. That’s what I have to remember.


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## terrence4159 (Feb 3, 2013)

they only use the lets be friends line to make it look like they care, they really DONT want to be friends. my XW used the same line on me and for alittle while i fell for it. i havent talked to her in over a year and we have a kid together and drop him back and forth twice every week


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

doureallycare2.....My wife said the same thing, that I make a better friend not a husband. This is a way of easing her pain. If this is what she thought, then why did we ever get married? I could possibly understand these words if we would have rushed into marriage, but we were dating 5 years before we got married. She just says this to ease her pain, not mine. I miss a lot of what we would do together, but I don't know if I will ever be able to be her friend. She wanted to see what life was like without me, then so be it. She wanted to be single and have me still in her life, guess what, you can't have both, at least not now. Who knows, maybe sometime down the road, we can be social with each other, but until then, it is business only. This was her decision, not mine, so if me not being her friend hurts her feelings, guess what I do not care. She pick the path she wanted to walk, she can walk it alone.


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

LH - i wish i could be as strong. I have limited the amount of contact that I had been having but it's been really hard to draw my own limits to that extent. I'm sure I should make that complete break, just haven't been able to do it yet. I am close tho and much further along than 2 weeks ago.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

Lostlove....Even though all of our stories sound they same, they need to be handled differently. It is very difficult breaking contact with someone that you loved so much. There are still days when I am leaving work, that I get my phone out, cause I always called her on my way home. I have typed more than one text, and then deleted it. I still want to call her and se if we are making the right decision, but we will never know. There is always going to be regret, and second thoughts, but once I made up my mind, I have to stick with it. Now if she called me, and showed some improvement, I would have to rethink everything, but I do not see that happening. 

So, just take baby steps. I started with no contact for a day, then two, and so on. Set small goals that you can achieve, and work from there. It is hard to give up, on a marriage, but remember they gave up on you. All I did was get out of her way, she was going to live her life without me, so I helped her achieve her goal. It sucks, but it is what it is, and I know I will be a better person when all is said and done


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Well of course I say that about my stbxh because he cannot keep his pants zipped up. With a friend that doesn’t matter, with a Husband that matters a lot. Hopefully that is not the reason your w said you would make a better friend. 

I think the determining factor on the friendship after marriage is the "taking blame" and "forgiveness” my stbx totally understands that the breakdown is fault because of his lack of faithfulness. He knows he has problems and he admits he is unwilling because of the pain involved to get help for them. I also acknowledge that I not only have been an enabler but have been too needy and dependent in this marriage. I never developed into my own person. I have to own up to my own faults also although they in no way are responsible for him being a cheater. I have also determined in my heart not to hold on to bitterness but somehow forgive him for my sake. I don’t want to end up being a bitter old lady…

Saying all that, I also know that I will need a lot of healing time before I could ever be "friends" with him. I have not told him we can be, or even put it out on their on the table to him (as a matter of fact I basically said we will have limited contact). I would not want to give him any false hopes that I will accept his behavior or him in any type of a relationship right now. I was just telling you I could see it as a possibility in our future. 

I think it would depend on the reason why the person is saying it as to whether it’s a lie or something to help their own guilt. I was just trying to give you a different view point.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Everyone is different. We all need to handle things in our own way and our own time. As long as we are not harming them, we will be okay. Some will be able to forgive and some will not. Some will be able to be friends and some will not. Each of us has to find our own path. We will walk it alone and deal with it as best we can. We can not expect anyone to understand what our reasoning is. We can only support each other.


And that is the key I think, not to pass judgment but to give our view points if we feel they may be helpful. Also to try and encourage each other because if you are going through this very painful process you are probably hurting and trying to come to grips with what is happening to you and how to handle this new reality of life as you know it.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

I agree, please do not think I was attacking anyone with my words, they are just my opinion of my situation. I can not tell anyone what my wife's true motive is, she might honestly want to be friends, because of the time spent together, or if it is to just ease her guilt. All I know is that this whole thing sucks. I am in uncharted territory for me, and with all of the input I get from you all, hopefully I will be able to reach a better place, and who knows maybe a lasting friendship with her. 

I do not want anyone on here thinking I am attacking their story or their opinions. I value everything that TAM has to offer. It is a place, where I can get help from others that have walked this path, and also a place where I can vent and not be judged. That is my one issue with written words, you can not tell the emotion that they carry, and if any of my words looked like they were taking shots at someone, I can tell you they were not intended that way.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> I'm not perfect. I judge the hell out of my ex. She did wrong and I will never forgive her. Sorry, but that is just me.
> 
> I say, everyone needs to make their own decision of how, when and if they can be forgiving enough to be a friend of someone who has such evil in them. We are only human. We can only support the good efforts of others, not pressure them to do more than they are capable.
> 
> .


I totally agree with you. I did not say to not judge your spouse’s behavior, If they have treated you wrongly or immorally you have every right to judge that! I hate how people throw around the bible verse, Judge not lest you be judge. This is one of the most misinterpreted verses in the bible. The lesson Jesus is trying to give is about Hypocrisy, not judgment, we will all be judged by the same measure that we use. If we cannot hold to the standard we use, we have no business applying that standard to others. There are two possible responses to this statement: one, operating under the assumption that no one can possibly live up to a high standard, holds to the interpretation mentioned above that no one should ever judge anyone else, since we’re all sinners. The second possibility is that we should all amend our own behavior and live properly before exercising judgment and helping others to do the same.

I’m for the 2nd possibility, I say look at your own faults yes, but it in no way excuses what the other person has done and vise a versa. We need to be accountable for our own actions. And If my stbxh won’t take accountability for his then it was up to me to "finally" (better-late than never) be a judge and say " I hereby render our marriage over as you broke our vows!


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

Sorry if it’s confusing, I say you can and most probably need and should judge your spouse and others that are hurting you as well, just don’t be a hypocrite; judge yourself by the same standard and make sure your behavior lives up to the measure you want to exact on someone else, if not you need to amend either your judgment or your behavior. 

As for forgiveness, that is indeed personal. I’m not even sure yet if I have done it. I rather think it’s a process, but it’s one I have decided to strive for with my stbxh, let me stress not for his sake but for mine. I would not "judge" you for not doing so because these are your feelings, your hurts, and your reconciliation with how you want to live with it. As you said earlier it’s a very personal thing.

I’m not sure about your question about filing for divorce and being friends with a spouse who betrayed you? I was simply responding to Lost hunter, that I think "I" could be friends with my stbxh in certain circumstances in the future. We will see about that though, it’s not something I’m striving for or expect but I could totally see it happening based on our two personalities and how familiar we are with each other.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

2nntnuf: Wow you really do want to understand my point of view, that’s a lot of questions.

I guess to keep it simple and not to hi-jack Lost Hunters tread anymore I will just say that I don’t believe to forgive is to pardon from justice. 

I believe that to forgive is FOR THE VICTIM and it releases the victim from harboring the bitterness, pain and hopefully the hurt that was inflicted upon them.

To Pardon is for the perpetrator or criminal and Releases them from the penalty or responsibly of their behavior or crime.

The pardon releases them. Forgiveness releases me; they can stay in prison I don’t need to stay there guarding them. 

Forgiving someone doesn’t let them off the hook. It doesn’t make the other person right, it makes you free. It doesn’t guarantee the relationship is restored but that you are released from the strings that tied you so tightly to the perpetrator and you’ve set your self free.

As for friendship: there are so many levels of friendship you yourself described a couple. I have friends that are very casual; I do not consider them good friends. I don’t tell them about my divorce or what I’m going through emotionally but I will give them a hug when I see them and enjoy talking to them on a very casual level. Then I have very good friends that I can share everything with. I could go out to dinner with either because I like to be social and enjoy food. 

Do I see myself as an intimate close friend with my stbxh.. NO…I do not. But I hope someday we can talk and laugh and be in the same room as our grandchildren and maybe look at each other and give a little knowing smile of remembering when our son did that same thing…After all no one has those memories but us.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

I wasn’t criticizing you, sorry if you took it that way. 

We will just have to agree to differ as I would not go out to dinner with an acquaintance unless in a group of people, but I have many friends that I consider a casual friendship and would go out with them. Maybe I view that differently because of the few very deep, close friendships I have been able to maintain for quite a few years (one of those friends even asked to serve my H the divorce papers). And the fact that I kept many things about my life at home a secret from most people for years, only my few closest friends new about the affairs and abuse.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

I can see where you both are coming from, and this is why I asked the question. I agree with bits and pieces of both, but with that is my problem. My wife and I have been "friends and lovers" for the past 14 years, now she wants to remove the lover portion of that equation. I agree that I would like to stay friends, because we do have those memories, and we were such good friends, but I agree, that I could never trust her due to the hurt and pain she has caused me. If you can't trust your friends, they are not your friends. Even once my heart has healed, I don't think I could ever fully trust her, and who knows when I will forgive her for this. So it is looking like time will tell if we can maintain a friendship, or if we will just be civil with each other when we cross paths.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

lost hunter said:


> I can see where you both are coming from, and this is why I asked the question. I agree with bits and pieces of both, but with that is my problem. My wife and I have been "friends and lovers" for the past 14 years, now she wants to remove the lover portion of that equation. I agree that I would like to stay friends, because we do have those memories, and we were such good friends, but I agree, that I could never trust her due to the hurt and pain she has caused me. If you can't trust your friends, they are not your friends. Even once my heart has healed, I don't think I could ever fully trust her, and who knows when I will forgive her for this. So it is looking like time will tell if we can maintain a friendship, or if we will just be civil with each other when we cross paths.


I agree, like I said..... I don’t know If I can be either, I just said I could probably see it happening but circumstances would have to be right. Right now we are still pretty early in this divorce process and who knows how bitter it is going to get. I would like to think we will both remain "adult" about it all but that is probably my wishful thinking. 

If you can’t tell by now it’s my Pollyanna type of thinking that probably kept me in my marriage for 35 years. I’m willing to admit I’m a very naive 53 year old woman and I’m trying to "grow" up but not give up on who I am. Good luck with the decisions you make, it is so hard and so very painful!!


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> You are no longer in love with them. If you are, why did you get divorced?


Often it is not that simple.

This is one reason remaining friends can be problematic.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

zillard said:


> Often it is not that simple.
> 
> This is one reason remaining friends can be problematic.


I agree 100%. It takes two to make a marriage work, but only one to destroy it. I still love my wife, but she wants out. No matter how hard I try to save my marriage, there is only so much one person can do. That is why I started the paperwork, why keep trying when you know you are not getting anywhere. I would rather use the time to heal, then waste it spinning my wheels in the mud.


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## zillard (Nov 13, 2012)

lost hunter said:


> I agree 100%. It takes two to make a marriage work, but only one to destroy it. I still love my wife, but she wants out. No matter how hard I try to save my marriage, there is only so much one person can do. That is why I started the paperwork, why keep trying when you know you are not getting anywhere. I would rather use the time to heal, then waste it spinning my wheels in the mud.


Love yourself more than you love the marriage. 

Otherwise it's co-dependent attachment, not love.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

zillard said:


> Love yourself more than you love the marriage.
> 
> Otherwise it's co-dependent attachment, not love.


I do, that is why I am letting her go. All it was going to do if I stayed and fought more was take me down with it in the end.


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## doureallycare2 (Dec 10, 2012)

zillard said:


> Often it is not that simple.
> 
> This is one reason remaining friends can be problematic.


 I totally agree! That is why I said if it were to happen it would be in the future. He is not my Friend now, he is my husband was having a PA and I asked him to leave, when he left he moved in w/ the ow. I filed for D. This does not make for a friendship right now. 

I don’t know if it’s because of my age or what, but I know one couple that has been D for years are remarried to other people now and do have a friendship with each other, they even go on vacations together. I know another that the H cheated, he is on his 3rd mrrg now, the 1st w an old friend of mine never remarried and yet they are friends they all sat together for the July 4th fireworks and enjoyed watching them with the grandchildren. It can happen, will it...? I don’t know.... I know I can’t see still being in love with him years from now so I’m looking at the friendship thing through hopefully healed eyes.


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## lost hunter (Dec 13, 2012)

Man, she is really pushing for this friend stuff. We have been in contact due to paperwork and taxes, she keeps trying to be a friend. I just keep treating her like a coworker. I only give her the information she needs. I give her credit, she is persistent. She says she understands, I need time and space, but she still tries.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's possible to remain friends with an ex-spouse. If you want to.
If you don't want to, you don't have to stay friends and can limit your relationship to co-parenting (if you have kids).

I personally am one of those who did not stay "friends" with my ex-husband. (We didn't have kids). I knew I would never move on as long as we were in eachothers' lives. 

It doesn't work for everyone (this being "friends" thing). 

Trying to be friends w/ someone I've been lovers with is not something I am built for and I gladly own that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

lost hunter said:


> Man, she is really pushing for this friend stuff. We have been in contact due to paperwork and taxes, she keeps trying to be a friend. I just keep treating her like a coworker. I only give her the information she needs. I give her credit, she is persistent. She says she understands, I need time and space, but she still tries.


Just keep doing what you are doing. Set up your boundaries and stick to them.

She may just be doing this cause she knows she hurts you and it eases her conscience.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

2ntnuf said:


> I do believe it is possible to be friendly, just very very difficult if you loved them. You don't want that ruining your next relationship. You want to reconcile yourself to the fact you no longer love that person. I don't think that is possible. The type and intensity of love may change, but I don't think it is ever gone. The ones who are able to do this seem to have much less of an ability to feel love. They are capable of showing it, but don't know the feeling.



Goodness I so agree! Great post. :smthumbup:


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