# Laundry war....



## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

short description: divorcing after twenty years of marriage. we still haven't filed papers, as we are trying to get to agreement before hiring lawyers. Well, it never went far and ended in him yelling at me, so things got stuck. But for the last six months I've been like a single mother. He already has someone, spends most of his time there. or with his biking buddies Which would be fine, if he was doing his part around the house - which is very little anyway: the yard is neglected, suitcases are in the middle of master bedroom, waiting to be put away (I can not do it, I am too short). The pool is unusable because he doesn't clean filter, and even though me and girls are putting all required chemicals, and scrabbing it as we are supposed to.

So basically I am now already single mother. I am doing everything I've been doing before : work full time, take care of kids, oh the house, five pets.. My STBX, even if he is home, just sits on the couch with his computer. His dishes can not make it into the dishwasher anymore. Doesn't touch the laundry with a long pole. Kids are asking why he even wants 50-50 custody as he hardly interacts with them, and that he probably will need them to clean his house and do the laundry.....

At one point I stopped washing his office clothes - as they take time if you want to do it properly, so they go straight on hanger and ready to wear. there is really no reason for me to do it, since he is not pulling his weight around here. But I was sill throwing his other laundry together with ours, and just later put it on his bed, clean. But his professional clothes are pilling up in our bathroom , probably six feet up now.
What I heard yesterday? "I am paying for everything in this house, you could at least do the laundry". (mind you, I work full time, we have professional business together) - I think this was the moment, when I am completely done with his laundry. I am not going to touch it ever again. I think this might be the moment, when after 25 years, I finally stop hoping for his approval.

But since he always found it easy to guilt me into doing things, I do not want to, I want to hear from you : do you think I should continue with that freaking laundry, or do I have every right to let this grown man do it himself?


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Good for you for standing up for yourself! He sounds like one lazy SOB. I wouldn't do one thing for him...not even wash and fold a single sock.

Who is staying in the house when you separate/divorce? And when is that person going to move out? Sounds like that needs to be a top priority. It also sounds like you are trying to be cordial about the divorce and not waste money on lawyers. While that's a good thing, it can slow the process down...even to a halt. So maybe your H doesn't mind the current situation and is in no hurry to divorce. In that case, you may need to take the next step yourself. 

Sorry you're going through this. It's not good for you or your kids.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

I’m married, work full time and do my own laundry except maybe towels which are shared and my kids have enough laundry skill to wash/dry these. I also wash mine/wife’s underwear and that if my three youngest boys. I also wash the clothes of my three youngest boys while my wife washes her clothes and those of my youngest daughter (she likes their clothes to be super clean so no one is even allowed to touch or remove from the dryer) lol.

I’ll often make my kids fold/put away clothes which means we’re always searching in someone else’s drawers for missing stuff lol.

I wouldn’t touch his laundry if I were you. Laundry is so dang easy anyway.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Dadto2 said:


> Good for you for standing up for yourself! He sounds like one lazy SOB. I wouldn't do one thing for him...not even wash and fold a single sock.
> 
> Who is staying in the house when you separate/divorce? And when is that person going to move out? Sounds like that needs to be a top priority. It also sounds like you are trying to be cordial about the divorce and not waste money on lawyers. While that's a good thing, it can slow the process down...even to a halt. So maybe your H doesn't mind the current situation and is in no hurry to divorce. In that case, you may need to take the next step yourself.
> 
> Sorry you're going through this. It's not good for you or your kids.


Thank you. We will be selling this house, and buying two smaller. I agree, things were working for him just fine as it is. I finally sent him my proposal for divorce few days ago, haven't hear a word back. I am going to tell him that either we do something about it, or I will send papers through the lawyer. this is way too long and it starts taking toll on me.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Donny69 said:


> I’m married, work full time and do my own laundry except maybe towels which are shared and my kids have enough laundry skill to wash/dry these. I also wash mine/wife’s underwear and that if my three youngest boys. I also wash the clothes of my three youngest boys while my wife washes her clothes and those of my youngest daughter (she likes their clothes to be super clean so no one is even allowed to touch or remove from the dryer) lol.
> 
> I’ll often make my kids fold/put away clothes which means we’re always searching in someone else’s drawers for missing stuff lol.
> 
> I wouldn’t touch his laundry if I were you. Laundry is so dang easy anyway.


Thank you. My kids are also in charge of putting things away, so some things tend to disappear....

So it doesn't sound like I am asking too much. I guess he really got spoiled. Even lawyer could not believe how easy he has it, and was more than happy to take on my case...


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

I would've stopped doing pretty much everything for him the minute you two were "separated" while not really separated. You've been going above and beyond for a while. Let him manage his life and his stuff, and you can manage yours, including and not limited to laundry.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Thank you. We will be selling this house, and buying two smaller. I agree, things were working for him just fine as it is. I finally sent him my proposal for divorce few days ago, haven't hear a word back. I am going to tell him that either we do something about it, or I will send papers through the lawyer. this is way too long and it starts taking toll on me.


Since you are selling the house, you need to keep the yard and pool up. Surely your H knows this. What is he waiting for? Would he be open to hiring a lawn and pool service? 

And good for you for not waiting. I would send him your proposal again and give him 7 days to respond. Tell him you would prefer you two come to an agreement, but that if you don't hear back, you will let your lawyer handle it. Sounds like he is content to keep things the way they are and you will need to take the lead.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Dadto2 said:


> Since you are selling the house, you need to keep the yard and pool up. Surely your H knows this. What is he waiting for? Would he be open to hiring a lawn and pool service?
> 
> And good for you for not waiting. I would send him your proposal again and give him 7 days to respond. Tell him you would prefer you two come to an agreement, but that if you don't hear back, you will let your lawyer handle it. Sounds like he is content to keep things the way they are and you will need to take the lead.


We do have a lawn service for the grass. But he was always the one taking care of the bushes, trees - and we have a lot. It used to be his hobby so he was going crazy in the garden. How he moved on to new hobby - motorbike and pretending he twenty year old with no dependents, lol

It is good idea about re-sending it and give him specific time to respond or start lawyering up. I will do just that. My stomach is already tight like a fist when I just think about trying to have a serious conversation with him. that never worked well in our marriage.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> short description: divorcing after twenty years of marriage. we still haven't filed papers, as we are trying to get to agreement before hiring lawyers. Well, it never went far and ended in him yelling at me, so things got stuck. But for the last six months I've been like a single mother. He already has someone, spends most of his time there. or with his biking buddies Which would be fine, if he was doing his part around the house - which is very little anyway: the yard is neglected, suitcases are in the middle of master bedroom, waiting to be put away (I can not do it, I am too short). The pool is unusable because he doesn't clean filter, and even though me and girls are putting all required chemicals, and scrabbing it as we are supposed to.
> 
> So basically I am now already single mother. I am doing everything I've been doing before : work full time, take care of kids, oh the house, five pets.. My STBX, even if he is home, just sits on the couch with his computer. His dishes can not make it into the dishwasher anymore. Doesn't touch the laundry with a long pole. Kids are asking why he even wants 50-50 custody as he hardly interacts with them, and that he probably will need them to clean his house and do the laundry.....
> 
> ...


When women talk about their men in the UK and USA, they will describe how they are useless and do nothing around the house, leaving the bulk of teh doing and thinking to the women. 

This is harmless enough, but there is a danger. Sometimes it is actually true and such wives can go through their lives thinking it is normal as the women they know say the same thing.

This is why you are getting divorced. It is decades since men could not do their own laundry.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Thank you. My kids are also in charge of putting things away, so some things tend to disappear....
> 
> So it doesn't sound like I am asking too much. I guess he really got spoiled. Even lawyer could not believe how easy he has it, and was more than happy to take on my case...


My marriage counsellor from my first marriage occasionally betrayed shock about how my then wife had nothing to complain about and still managed it. It is good to have that outsider perspective.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> When women talk about their men in the UK and USA, they will describe how they are useless and do nothing around the house, leaving the bulk of teh doing and thinking to the women.
> 
> This is harmless enough, but there is a danger. Sometimes it is actually true and such wives can go through their lives thinking it is normal as the women they know say the same thing.
> 
> This is why you are getting divorced. It is decades since men could not do their own laundry.


The sad things is that before we had kids, and we both had separate careers, we were the best partners. there was no arguments who does what, it was obvious that we both have to deal with things, whoever came back home earlier started dinner and the laundry. Things went downhill once kids were born and I stayed home for few years.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> The sad things is that before we had kids, and we both had separate careers, we were the best partners. there was no arguments who does what, it was obvious that we both have to deal with things, whoever came back home earlier started dinner and the laundry. Things went downhill once kids were born and I stayed home for few years.


Sorry to hear that.
My posts are a bit superfluous, I have come across women who think their friends' relationships are like they say and lower their standards accordingly. At least you know what is normal. 
Good luck through this horrible time.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> The sad things is that before we had kids, and we both had separate careers, we were the best partners. there was no arguments who does what, it was obvious that we both have to deal with things, whoever came back home earlier started dinner and the laundry. Things went downhill once kids were born and I stayed home for few years.


Kids obviously change a marriage, but I wouldn't solely blame that. Marriages become stagnant and require a lot of work with or without kids. People, especially men, get complacent. We chased her, we caught her, now we can coast....becomes the mindset for a lot of guys. Took my wife leaving for me to realize I can't get complacent. I have to keep pursuing and listening to her. My counselor said marriage is like a plant...you've got to keep watering it or else it withers away and dies.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> short description: divorcing after twenty years of marriage. we still haven't filed papers, as we are trying to get to agreement before hiring lawyers. Well, it never went far and ended in him yelling at me, so things got stuck. But for the last six months I've been like a single mother. He already has someone, spends most of his time there. or with his biking buddies Which would be fine, if he was doing his part around the house - which is very little anyway: the yard is neglected, suitcases are in the middle of master bedroom, waiting to be put away (I can not do it, I am too short). The pool is unusable because he doesn't clean filter, and even though me and girls are putting all required chemicals, and scrabbing it as we are supposed to.
> 
> So basically I am now already single mother. I am doing everything I've been doing before : work full time, take care of kids, oh the house, five pets.. My STBX, even if he is home, just sits on the couch with his computer. His dishes can not make it into the dishwasher anymore. Doesn't touch the laundry with a long pole. Kids are asking why he even wants 50-50 custody as he hardly interacts with them, and that he probably will need them to clean his house and do the laundry.....
> 
> ...


Holy moly!

He just relegated you to his maid?

There needs to be a clear split even if you are in the same house.

He needs to take care of his own responsibilities.

I think you should talk to a lawyer yourself and explain everything and get advice.

I don't see this going well for you otherwise.

What an ass hat!


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Tell him to take his laundry to his girlfriend's to do. It isn't your business anymore.

I'm a little hot about this obviously.😉


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Tell him to take his laundry to his girlfriend's to do. It isn't your business anymore.
> 
> I'm a little hot about this obviously.😉


Fair enough. He is being a ****.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

You leave his dirty laundry on his bed. If he wishes to have them cleaned, by all means ship them to his GF and let her do them. One of my clients, taught the dog to scooch, on his WW's side of the bed. Of course he replaced the covers, and moved to another bedroom. He could hardly contain himself when she complained of a fart smell in her bed. He kept telling her it was probably her diet.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Holy moly!
> 
> He just relegated you to his maid?
> 
> ...


Thank you. You guys have no idea how it helps me to hear guys perspective here confirming that I am not just being mean or petty about that issue. I guess clear separation would have been better. he is now charging his hotels and fancy restaurants to our credit card. I put in my offer that we split cc debt AFTER deducing these expenditures.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Tell him to take his laundry to his girlfriend's to do. It isn't your business anymore.
> 
> I'm a little hot about this obviously.😉


and I love it


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Taxman said:


> You leave his dirty laundry on his bed. If he wishes to have them cleaned, by all means ship them to his GF and let her do them. One of my clients, taught the dog to scooch, on his WW's side of the bed. Of course he replaced the covers, and moved to another bedroom. He could hardly contain himself when she complained of a fart smell in her bed. He kept telling her it was probably her diet.


that was clean laundry that I used to put on his. He hardly has room to sleep now, he is not putting it away


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’m from a different generation where the majority of women tended to do everything including, for some of us, dealing with demanding careers. When we separated in-house, after a very long marriage, I immediately quit cooking for him or doing his laundry or any of the other ten billion things he was used to having done for him. I had made his life extremely easy for decades so he could focus 100% on his career and he took that for granted. When he remarried, it was a shock for him that his new wife (who was very close to our age) didn’t cook, didn’t do laundry and didn’t do any of the other ten billion things he was used to having done for him. She was 100% focused on her career and he had to step up for the first time ever. I have to admit that made me smile.

Your husband has mentally checked out. He’s done with family life. Whatever he did before he won’t do now. He doesn’t appreciate you and what you do and never will. The sooner you can get the divorce done and over with, the better off you’ll be. He will have to grow up just as my ex-husband finally had to, kicking and screaming, because the world is no longer full of women willing to do it all — or even take on the majority of it — especially when they also have full-time careers to deal with. I never would do that again and I suggest you don’t either.


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## Donny69 (Sep 12, 2020)

My wife would have thrown all my stuff out if I’d gone to hangout with a girlfriend... I’d probably find my stuff not-so-nicely piled at the curb. She certainly would be so angry I’d probably be afraid to go to sleep at night....

sounds like you’re a real trooper!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Donny69 said:


> My wife would have thrown all my stuff out if I’d gone to hangout with a girlfriend... I’d probably find my stuff not-so-nicely piled at the curb. She certainly would be so angry I’d probably be afraid to go to sleep at night....
> 
> sounds like you’re a real trooper!


The girlfriend part is fine with me - we had agreed on that part long time ago. And I was actually relieved when he told me he found someone. "No returns, lady, he is all yours now",,,,lol


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I’m from a different generation where the majority of women tended to do everything including, for some of us, dealing with demanding careers. When we separated in-house, after a very long marriage, I immediately quit cooking for him or doing his laundry or any of the other ten billion things he was used to having done for him. I had made his life extremely easy for decades so he could focus 100% on his career and he took that for granted. When he remarried, it was a shock for him that his new wife (who was very close to our age) didn’t cook, didn’t do laundry and didn’t do any of the other ten billion things he was used to having done for him. She was 100% focused on her career and he had to step up for the first time ever. I have to admit that made me smile.
> 
> Your husband has mentally checked out. He’s done with family life. Whatever he did before he won’t do now. He doesn’t appreciate you and what you do and never will. The sooner you can get the divorce done and over with, the better off you’ll be. He will have to grow up just as my ex-husband finally had to, kicking and screaming, because the world is no longer full of women willing to do it all — or even take on the majority of it — especially when they also have full-time careers to deal with. I never would do that again and I suggest you don’t either.


 You are right, he has checked out. I do not expect much from him anymore, and try to pick my battles to make it easier on myself. that arrangement was fine for a while, but it is getting toxic now, and I guess it is on me (as usual, lol) to cut it off.

"I never would do that again and I suggest you don’t either." - hell no! I will never marry again, I will never make myself entangled with anyone financially. Nope. Independent woman from now on, "you can keep your toothbrush here and that's it". I am scarred for life after this marriage. I guess it wasn't that bad for him, because he is already joking about marriage. for me this is "are you crazy? haven't you learnt anything? ...."


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband swore he wasn’t going to ever get married again. About a week before the hearing, I told him I felt he would get married as soon as the divorce was final. He was adamant he would never be. The moment the judge signed the final decree, he remarried.


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## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Openminded said:


> My ex-husband swore he wasn’t going to ever get married again. About a week before the hearing, I told him I felt he would get married as soon as the divorce was final. He was adamant he would never be. The moment the judge signed the final decree, he remarried.


Wow, that was a quick flip.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Lawyer up. Tell him to get his laundry by x date or it gets donates/trashed.

Get tested for STDs and move on with your life.

He is not going to do anything for the house. So plan accordingly for upkeep in anticipation of a home sale.

In fact, second thought do all his possessions.

Find a way to remove to a storage unit. Most discount rate for a short period. Then inform him of where it is and give him the keys, the contract. Yes, run this by lawyer. And make sure you do not pay the bill.

Explain it is a decluttering exercise for the home sale.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Wow, that was a quick flip.


Yes, I knew it would be. He couldn’t stand the idea of being on his own. He decided to dump his AP once I told him I was divorcing him. Instead, he married someone he met on a dating site not long before I filed (and soon regretted jumping that quickly).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> I will never marry again, I will never make myself entangled with anyone financially. Nope. Independent woman from now on, "you can keep your toothbrush here and that's it". I am scarred for life after this marriage.


I married very young and had never been on my own before the divorce. I was amazed at how much I love it. Especially financially. I can’t even imagine remarrying — one and done.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I think your husband doing this stuff is a bit of manipulation. Make YOU do something -- he wins. Make YOU take care of HIS responsibilities, he is superior.
I agree with others -- stop doing ANY of his laundry. If he complains, say "I will do ONE load of your laundry after you do....." (and put it whatever chore you want completed by him.
He doesn't do THAT chore, then you do no laundry.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Openminded said:


> My ex-husband swore he wasn’t going to ever get married again. About a week before the hearing, I told him I felt he would get married as soon as the divorce was final. He was adamant he would never be. The moment the judge signed the final decree, he remarried.


Be sure to tell him no wedding gift from you this time around...but you'll get him something for his next marriage.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> You are right, he has checked out. I do not expect much from him anymore, and try to pick my battles to make it easier on myself. that arrangement was fine for a while, but it is getting toxic now, and I guess it is on me (as usual, lol) to cut it off.
> 
> "I never would do that again and I suggest you don’t either." - hell no! I will never marry again, I will never make myself entangled with anyone financially. Nope. Independent woman from now on, "you can keep your toothbrush here and that's it". I am scarred for life after this marriage. I guess it wasn't that bad for him, because he is already joking about marriage. for me this is "are you crazy? haven't you learnt anything? ...."


To be fair, you did marry a ****. That is not your fault, and it is not a fault of men generally. It is his fault for being a ****.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> .... one point I stopped washing his office clothes - as they take time if you want to do it properly, so they go straight on hanger and ready to wear. there is really no reason for me to do it, since he is not pulling his weight around here. But I was sill throwing his other laundry together with ours, and just later put it on his bed, clean. But his professional clothes are pilling up in our bathroom , probably six feet up now.
> What I heard yesterday? *"I am paying for everything in this house, you could at least do the laundry". (mind you, I work full time, we have professional business together)* - I think this was the moment, when I am completely done with his laundry. I am not going to touch it ever again. I think this might be the moment, when after 25 years, I finally stop hoping for his approval.


At this moment I would have been like "Oh? Get fked!" Seriously, the nerve!
Separate his laundry from yours, don't do his out of sheer principle, he's not going to take responsibility for himself otherwise.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Dadto2 said:


> People, especially men, get complacent. We chased her, we caught her, now we can coast....becomes the mindset for a lot of guys.


True, goes both ways though, many women get complacent too and take their husband/marriage for granted.



WandaJ said:


> that was clean laundry that I used to put on his. He hardly has room to sleep now, he is not putting it away


Not your problem honey. Throw it in his room and shut the door, lol.

I'd get someone in to do the garden and pool, keep the invoices and take his half off his divorce settlement.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Oh hell no Wanda, he’s a grown tell him he better learn to do his own laundry when he does not have you around. Enough is enough....at this point I would leave the piles as they are.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> ... we are trying to get to agreement before hiring lawyers.


Nope. You're battling over laundry, so I doubt the two of you are going to see much progress in attempting to hammer out an agreement. Lawyers are a necessary evil. They are expensive. They also deal with getting opposing parties to agree on terms for divorce settlement. Save your time. Save your sanity. Hire an attorney. You will not regret it. You'll also get him out of your hair, out of your life sooner.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

frusdil said:


> True, goes both ways though, many women get complacent too and take their husband/marriage for granted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can’t like this enough.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I'll start by admitting I have a problem. There are some things I can't not do. I can't walk past litter without picking it up usually. I usually can't loaf on a job (even if I hate it).

I never stopped doing my ex's laundry. My Fridays the last couple years of the marriage would go something like:

I worked from home so I would switch over the 5-ish loads of laundry during the day while the kids were at school.
8:30 - kids went to bed.
8:30-9:15 or 9:30 clean up all the kid messes (they were in elementary school so even if they did help there was still stuff to do once they were in bed)
9:30-11:00 or later fold all of the laundry (roughly 2 X 45 minute shows on Netflix).
11:00-11:15 put away all of the laundry except for her scrubs which would be stacked or hung up on the ironing board since she liked to iron it the day she was going to wear it.
11:15-11:30 or 11:45 read, watch tv, or play a video game.
11:45 - coin flip of being ignored or get yelled at for "just sitting around" while she was working. Occasionally, there was a hug or a story at the end of the day instead of negativity but that was rare.

Every week.

You shouldn't do his laundry. By telling you this I am being a hypocrite because I did the laundry for someone that didn't appreciate it.

It will make single life seem that much easier though. At one point post-separation, pre-divorce she asked about how things were going in the house now that she had moved out. I told her it was nice only doing half the laundry and cooking half the meals I was used to. The yard and flower bed hadn't changed though.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Let him know that this isn’t about him not seeing the value in you. It’s about you not seeing the value in him. And that the last thing in the world you’d want right now is for him to believe there’s a reason to hang around, laundry or otherwise.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

OMG @WandaJ , he is obviously throwing a grown-up tantrum. He probably didn't want the divorce as it upset his routine etc. You have to play hardball, you now owe him nothing. He reminds me of one of those awful roomates, who let their dishes grow and keep the place in the mess and are entitled, thinking others will clean up.
make a list of what needs to be done at home.
Ensure his list includes the things that matter to him most.
Do not cook for him, do not clean his laundry, don't do anything for him. His bills, etc. (as long as they do not affect you and the kids) do not do anything at all.
You can hire a gardener, if you are selling the house this is important.
Remind him that he is till a co parenter of the kids and he is not pulling his weight.
You have alot of patience. i would bagged his laundry and put his girlfriend's name on it and tell him to take a hike!
Yes he may be paying for things but you also work in the business that pays for things and tell him the lawyers will see it differently. Stop being so nice!
I also think it is very disrespectful that he went and got a GF before the divorce was final., who does that in front of their kids. Says alot about his character.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

RandomDude said:


> At this moment I would have been like "Oh? Get fked!" Seriously, the nerve!
> Separate his laundry from yours, don't do his out of sheer principle, he's not going to take responsibility for himself otherwise.


My thoughts exactly.

I’d get a his and hers linen basket. Put all his in there and that’s where it stays unless he does it himself. I’d be telling him though, it’s on him now.

As for the other stuff that needs doing that is being neglected, if you can, I’d hire people to come do it to ensure the upkeep and ready to sell. Admittedly, if I were in your shoes, part of this would also be showing how little he is needed / go eff yourself kinda message. Maybe petty, but eh, human nonetheless.

You’re not overreacting.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

By the way... title of your thread... 2 words I wouldn’t have thought going together.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

All good for you.

Be helpful to yourself: be sure and get new credit cards solely in your name, NOW, while your credit rating is yet untouched, and get your name off all other cards and every loan you can, now, now, now.

Pretend you're already single in your finances, plans, and emotional state. It's easier now that will be when things go nuclear which I'm forecasting will indeed happen.

Have required by dates on all correspondence to him. You need to talk more to a lawyer now, to check you're doing all you can.

Best wishes.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> I think your husband doing this stuff is a bit of manipulation. Make YOU do something -- he wins. Make YOU take care of HIS responsibilities, he is superior.
> I agree with others -- stop doing ANY of his laundry. If he complains, say "I will do ONE load of your laundry after you do....." (and put it whatever chore you want completed by him.
> He doesn't do THAT chore, then you do no laundry.


That’s a good idea-he goes back to doing his part around the house, I might reconsider it


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Mr The Other said:


> To be fair, you did marry a **. That is not your fault, and it is not a fault of men generally. It is his fault for being a **.


He can be a*** when he wants and he wants to right now. But he used to be at least family guy, whose yard and holiday decorations were always best on the street


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> Nope. You're battling over laundry, so I doubt the two of you are going to see much progress in attempting to hammer out an agreement. Lawyers are a necessary evil. They are expensive. They also deal with getting opposing parties to agree on terms for divorce settlement. Save your time. Save your sanity. Hire an attorney. You will not regret it. You'll also get him out of your hair, out of your life sooner.


It probably ends with lawyers. With every week things are getting harder as we keep drifting apart very wuckly.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Hiner112 said:


> I'll start by admitting I have a problem. There are some things I can't not do. I can't walk past litter without picking it up usually. I usually can't loaf on a job (even if I hate it).
> 
> I never stopped doing my ex's laundry. My Fridays the last couple years of the marriage would go something like:
> 
> ...


I have to say that pile bothers me too, lol. But no, not gonna do it!...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> Let him know that this isn’t about him not seeing the value in you. It’s about you not seeing the value in him. And that the last thing in the world you’d want right now is for him to believe there’s a reason to hang around, laundry or otherwise.


That’s actually pretty good distinction. I think I am finally getting completely disillusioned. Feeling less and less guilty about asking for divorce.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

WandaJ said:


> With every week things are getting harder as we keep drifting apart very wuckly.


I applaud you for taking the high road. You gave it your best shot. But you know what you're dealing with. You soon-to-be ex husband is a douche. It would behoove you to get this clown out of your hair now. After all, he wasn't a team player when you were married. What makes you think he'd be a team player now in trying to do this without attorneys involved?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

aine said:


> OMG @WandaJ , he is obviously throwing a grown-up tantrum. He probably didn't want the divorce as it upset his routine etc. You have to play hardball, you now owe him nothing. He reminds me of one of those awful roomates, who let their dishes grow and keep the place in the mess and are entitled, thinking others will clean up.
> make a list of what needs to be done at home.
> Ensure his list includes the things that matter to him most.
> Do not cook for him, do not clean his laundry, don't do anything for him. His bills, etc. (as long as they do not affect you and the kids) do not do anything at all.
> ...


Although I totally do not care about him having a girlfriend already (tells you how I was really done with this marriage) it did change the dynamic and made divorce negotiations harder. It is me against two of them. I think that’s tge main reason it is dragging like this -he is never here, listens to her advise and comes back with a stick only to negotiating table.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> By the way... title of your thread... 2 words I wouldn’t have thought going together.


Lol!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> All good for you.
> 
> Be helpful to yourself: be sure and get new credit cards solely in your name, NOW, while your credit rating is yet untouched, and get your name off all other cards and every loan you can, now, now, now.
> 
> ...


All good points, thank you.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Prodigal said:


> I applaud you for taking the high road. You gave it your best shot. But you know what you're dealing with. You soon-to-be ex husband is a douche. It would behoove you to get this clown out of your hair now. After all, he wasn't a team player when you were married. What makes you think he'd be a team player now in trying to do this without attorneys involved?


My naivette? When we married we were pretty tight team, were always able to find common ground . But it often took a lot of pains to get there, so this is not a new pattern for me...quarter of century like this


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

WandaJ said:


> Although I totally do not care about him having a girlfriend already (tells you how I was really done with this marriage) it did change the dynamic and made divorce negotiations harder. It is me against two of them. I think that’s tge main reason it is dragging like this -he is never here, listens to her advise and comes back with a stick only to negotiating table.


So Wanda, think of it this way, it's the two of them against you, your lawyer, and everyone here!!!! You got this.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@WandaJ 

I think I found a way for you to win the laundry war:


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

WandaJ said:


> Although I totally do not care about him having a girlfriend already (tells you how I was really done with this marriage) it did change the dynamic and made divorce negotiations harder. It is me against two of them. I think that’s tge main reason it is dragging like this -he is never here, listens to her advise and comes back with a stick only to negotiating table.


I don’t have any wisdom about how to accomplish this, but I wonder if there is a way to turn this around so that him having a girlfriend works to your advantage.

Seems his current situation is quite comfortable for him and her. Maybe there are changes that could be forced upon him that will make him (or her) want to move forward quickly with the divorce?


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> Thank you. You guys have no idea how it helps me to hear guys perspective here confirming that I am not just being mean or petty about that issue. I guess clear separation would have been better. he is now charging his hotels and fancy restaurants to our credit card. I put in my offer that we split cc debt AFTER deducing these expenditures.


Battles of wills over laundry are one thing, but you ABSOLUTELY have to separate your finances. Close all joint bank and credit accounts, get your own insurance, etc.

Nothing awful will happen if you neglect his laundry. You can get driven bankrupt if he messes up your finances and credit.

Oh, and I'm in the camp of you completely ignoring his laundry. You're divorcing, so he doesn't get the benefit of having a wife/partner for one more minute. Make enough food for you and the kids. Wash only those dishes.

If it's in your way, add it to the pile on his bed. Please tell me you have separate bedrooms? Heck, put his dirty dishes on his bed-pile too.

Anything valuable you want out of this, pack it now and leave it with a trusted friend. Look up posts on how to deal with in-home separations. You are pretending he is a horrible housemate you must deal with until you or he finally moves out. Would you do your hated college roommate's laundry? Nope. That's the test.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband put lots of expensive restaurants, and other things, on our two joint cards while he was dating in the months before the divorce. I told him he could be responsible for the entire debt since 90% of the charges on the cards were his anyway (and he agreed). Of course, by that point he was very anxious to move things along so he could remarry as soon as possible. That worked to my benefit and I took full advantage of it.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

Affaircare said:


> @WandaJ
> 
> I think I found a way for you to win the laundry war:


The entire bottle? That can't be good.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Dadto2 said:


> The entire bottle? That can't be good.


ha ha!


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Battles of wills over laundry are one thing, but you ABSOLUTELY have to separate your finances. Close all joint bank and credit accounts, get your own insurance, etc.
> 
> Nothing awful will happen if you neglect his laundry. You can get driven bankrupt if he messes up your finances and credit.
> 
> ...


Yes, we are in separate bedrooms I moved out to guest bedroom. 

I love your nickname, it would fit me too


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

So far, this is the only response (via text) I've got in regards to my divorce proposal:

"You are not going to get away with it. Keep paying off credit card. It will be split 50-50"

Yes. He expects me to pay off his $350 dinners and hotels with his lover. With my income which will be way lower than his....


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> So far, this is the only response (via text) I've got in regards to my divorce proposal:
> 
> "You are not going to get away with it. Keep paying off credit card. It will be split 50-50"
> 
> Yes. He expects me to pay off his $350 dinners and hotels with his lover. With my income which will be way lower than his....


Do you have a formal separation agreement? Can't remember if you said you did or not. Anyway, you really need to get that done since once it's finalized, you would no longer be responsible for debts he incurs (and vice versa). But as long as you are still married with no agreement, he can run up huge bills and you will most likely be on the hook for half.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

I can't fathom why you're still washing anything of his. Or feeding him. And you need to go ahead and file because the longer you let him drag this out the longer you're stuck like this. You need to give him joint custody and in fact insist upon it so you are not consumed by all this even after divorce and he has to do his share. How he works that out will be his problem but it will give you some time to either work or have time to yourself or socialize. And joint custody is the norm. So don't be silly and decide you want full custody when he could be doing half of your chores with the kids.

Why he says he wants custody is because he probably thinks that's his only leverage on you is threatening to take the kids which he can't do. By insisting he take joint custody you do what the judge is probably going to do anyway and end any leverage he thinks he has over you and force him to take the responsibility he wouldn't take during the marriage for his own kids.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Dadto2 said:


> Do you have a formal separation agreement? Can't remember if you said you did or not. Anyway, you really need to get that done since once it's finalized, you would no longer be responsible for debts he incurs (and vice versa). But as long as you are still married with no agreement, he can run up huge bills and you will most likely be on the hook for half.


no, it didn't seem like we were needing it. He really got worse in the last couple months. I think probably depression, in his case it comes up as aggression and being even bigger as..le than usual. the difference is I do not care about that anymore.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I can't fathom why you're still washing anything of his. Or feeding him. And you need to go ahead and file because the longer you let him drag this out the longer you're stuck like this. You need to give him joint custody and in fact insist upon it so you are not consumed by all this even after divorce and he has to do his share. How he works that out will be his problem but it will give you some time to either work or have time to yourself or socialize. And joint custody is the norm. So don't be silly and decide you want full custody when he could be doing half of your chores with the kids.


yes, plan is for 50-50, and I am not going to fight him on it. Kids need their father. I just hope he will start behaving again like the father he used to be. Girls beg me not to do 50-50, but I will try actually for 60-40 - alternate weekends, and weekdays 3 days for me, two for him. We'll see.

"but it will give you some time to either work or have time to yourself or socialize" - actually looking forward to it. at this point, I hardly ever have time alone, I am always home wiht kids. And although they are already 13 and 15, they do like spending time with me, and they visit me in my room all the time, and I love it. But sometimes I take a bath just to be alone
Last weekend he was away, and girls both went for sleepovers. I had awesome time! I forgot how I used to enjoy quiet time like this. It helps to put things in order in your head. That's when I finally sent him that proposal.


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> no, it didn't seem like we were needing it. He really got worse in the last couple months. I think probably depression, in his case it comes up as aggression and being even bigger as..le than usual. the difference is I do not care about that anymore.


I would seriously consider it if he's spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

heartsbeating said:


> By the way... title of your thread... 2 words I wouldn’t have thought going together.


I couldn't ignore this because of the title!😉


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> yes, plan is for 50-50, and I am not going to fight him on it. Kids need their father. I just hope he will start behaving again like the father he used to be. Girls beg me not to do 50-50, but I will try actually for 60-40 - alternate weekends, and weekdays 3 days for me, two for him. We'll see.
> 
> "but it will give you some time to either work or have time to yourself or socialize" - actually looking forward to it. at this point, I hardly ever have time alone, I am always home wiht kids. And although they are already 13 and 15, they do like spending time with me, and they visit me in my room all the time, and I love it. But sometimes I take a bath just to be alone
> Last weekend he was away, and girls both went for sleepovers. I had awesome time! I forgot how I used to enjoy quiet time like this. It helps to put things in order in your head. That's when I finally sent him that proposal.


You should just go ahead and do it 50/50 so you have as much time to socialize or relax as he does. And be sure it's all written down on a judge's order or some kind of legal agreement you can take before the judge so he's not always calling and asking you to watch the kids so he can go out on a date or not have his work interrupted. I strongly advise you do not veer from the legal agreement and get that started or it will be a constant battle.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Hey @WandaJ 

Are you aware that if he uses marital money to pay for his affair activities, that it can affect property division in a divorce? How Adultery Can Affect Property Division

My suggestion for you would be to go over the bank statements and credit card statements and add up the use of money for "the $350 dinners" etc. What happens is that the judge can divide it so that the amount of the affair costs is not part of the 50/50 split of assets. Thus a $15,000 credit card balance with $8,000 of wining and dining the new paramour would be divided like this: $8k is his, the remaining $7k is divided 50/50 so $3500 to you and $3500 to him. His total would be $11,500 and yours, $3500...AND that is a true division of 50% of the MARITAL debt! He gets to keep the portion he paid for the GF! But in order to split it like that (rather than $15k divided in half) you would have to have some documentation that shows or adds up what the "$350 dinners" cost. 

Thus, print the bank statements and credit card statements, circle anything that is affair related (or new GF...whatever), make a spreadsheet that adds all those costs up...and come court time, just give that to your lawyer and the judge and then the judge has reasonable cause to give him the costs of his courtship and split the remainder.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> Hey @WandaJ
> 
> Are you aware that if he uses marital money to pay for his affair activities, that it can affect property division in a divorce? How Adultery Can Affect Property Division
> 
> ...


Thank you. I sure hope to avoid courts, that's the most expensive option there is. But I will definitely fight not to pay for his "fun" times.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Yep I agree, and it's highly unlikely that he will agree to pay for his "fun times" when in his mind, he is entitled to only have to pay for half of it. I have no doubt you will PROPOSE that he be responsible for his own costs, and he will refuse, only because you suggested he be responsible for his own laundry and... well look where we are now. It is consistent: he doesn't choose to be personally responsible. 

And when a person won't do it on their own, sometimes it takes a mediator or a judge to kind of "help them" take that personal responsibility. See...if you propose it, in their eyes you are just being a *****. But if a JUDGE orders it... then that is society saying it, and a judge has the authority and power to enforce it upon someone who is unwilling. 

Anyways, I think tracking it is worthwhile, even if only to realize "Holy Smoke...$5000 of that is from wining and dining!" You can choose what you want but it may be a tool you can use with which to negotiate.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Unfortunately, I don’t think your husband is going to be cooperative when it comes to finances and the longer it goes on the worse it will be. He’s not likely to make anything about this easy. You need to discuss your options with a lawyer, if you haven’t already done that, so you know what you’re facing and how to make it happen as painlessly as possible.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Unfortunately, I don’t think your husband is going to be cooperative when it comes to finances and the longer it goes on the worse it will be. He’s not likely to make anything about this easy. You need to discuss your options with a lawyer, if you haven’t already done that, so you know what you’re facing and how to make it happen as painlessly as possible.


He's been deteriorating for the last couple months. It was fine when things were relatively "normal" at home, but at one point I started drawing the line and changing things, and since then it's spiraling. he probably takes it as a personal attack on him, not simply pre-divorce separation. he simply wanted things to stay the way there were, that's my conclusion.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but who initiated the divorce?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He was fine as long as you went along with what he wanted but now that you’re not — well, things are changing for him and he’s not happy. He will become more and more difficult because people like him like their little kingdom just the way it is.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

WandaJ said:


> He's been deteriorating for the last couple months. It was fine when things were relatively "normal" at home, but at one point I started drawing the line and changing things, and since then it's spiraling. he probably takes it as a personal attack on him, not simply pre-divorce separation. he simply wanted things to stay the way there were, that's my conclusion.


You know what I've often found amusing? People who commit adultery or ask for a divorce, and then when their spouse begins to accept that and move on, they get all upset. "Well...you fired me from the job of being your spouse, so I'm not your spouse anymore! What did you think was going to happen?" LOL

I've often wondered about that. Seriously if you tell someone "I no longer want to be married to you and I'm willing to emotionally harm our kids for my own self-interest..." do they think the spouse will just continue with the dishes and laundry or just continue depositing their paycheck into the joint account? NOPE! Once you ask for a divorce, it's every man/woman for themselves! SMH


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

minimalME said:


> I'm sorry if this has already been asked, but who initiated the divorce?


It was me. started 7 years ago (I had a long thread here), and he arranged for marriage counseling. things were little better for couple years, before slowly going downhill. I was done long time ago, but wanted to give it a chance.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Openminded said:


> He was fine as long as you went along with what he wanted but now that you’re not — well, things are changing for him and he’s not happy. He will become more and more difficult because people like him like their little kingdom just the way it is.


exactly. story of our marriage.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Affaircare said:


> You know what I've often found amusing? People who commit adultery or ask for a divorce, and then when their spouse begins to accept that and move on, they get all upset. "Well...you fired me from the job of being your spouse, so I'm not your spouse anymore! What did you think was going to happen?" LOL
> 
> I've often wondered about that. Seriously if you tell someone "I no longer want to be married to you and I'm willing to emotionally harm our kids for my own self-interest..." do they think the spouse will just continue with the dishes and laundry or just continue depositing their paycheck into the joint account? NOPE! Once you ask for a divorce, it's every man/woman for themselves! SMH


It was me who asked for divorce in this case. It took almost seven years from the first time I said that , we tried and at the end he seemed very much ok with it. I guess the reality is hitting now.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Frankly, my life won’t be much different after divorce. I will have less money but also the biggest spender will be gone. I’ve been taking care of bills, repairs, house, kids - and I continue doing the same. 
for him -the opposite. He will have to learn to pay bills and keep track of bills, arrange repairs, take care of kids and the house. 
oh, and we have five pets. I think I am getting full custody of these...


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No doubt the pets are much better off with you. 

My guess is that — if he’s at all like my ex-husband — he will very quickly find someone to do those things for him.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Openminded said:


> He was fine as long as you went along with what he wanted but now that you’re not — well, things are changing for him and he’s not happy. He will become more and more difficult because people like him like their little kingdom just the way it is.


Might he also become more difficult when his girlfriend starts to see him clearly, lose interest, and head to her own exit?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> Might he also become more difficult when his girlfriend starts to see him clearly, lose interest, and head to her own exit?


It’s posibility... apparently he mentioned something about possible break up with her to the kids and slept home last four nights. ..


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

PieceOfSky said:


> Might he also become more difficult when his girlfriend starts to see him clearly, lose interest, and head to her own exit?


Absolutely. But he’ll very likely find another one and another one and another one. There’s an endless supply. But either he’ll get tired of them or they’ll get tired of him and that’s how his life will go.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

CLOSE THE JOINT CREDIT CARD!

Get your own and make him get his own. Do it now! It's going to be a fight to get back any money he spent on the mistress, but at least you know any further expenditures will be going on his solo credit card.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> CLOSE THE JOINT CREDIT CARD!
> 
> Get your own and make him get his own. Do it now! It's going to be a fight to get back any money he spent on the mistress, but at least you know any further expenditures will be going on his solo credit card.


That might help. But, in my state at least, I don’t think him having only a solo credit card provides any legal protections or reduces the other spouse’s liability. Here, my understanding is it takes some sort of legal step/filing/decree to sever one from liability for a spouse’s future debts incurred between now and the divorce being final.

I suppose having solo credit card accounts would make bookkeeping easier and sound plausible to a judge: “We closed our joint account, and got separate accounts, and agreed between us that he would pay his card and I’d pay mine.” If there are assets to split, then maybe the judge would keep that alleged agreement in mind. But, in my state, I don’t think it effects your liability, in the creditor’s eyes and related laws, without that official legal thingy beforehand.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Update: laundry war is suspended. We had a deal -pool and yard. I even got coffee and breakfast delivered to bed. Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde...So Pool is clean, and he did a lot in the garden. I think things are slowing down with gf because he spent every night at home this week.
Never before doing laundry felt sooo good, lol. I hated that big pile!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I would say things could be off at present with gf so for now he’s playing up to you — until he hooks a new one or restarts with this one. Maybe this is the time to try to iron out financial details. Although that might snap him out of his “nice” mood.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I would say things could be off at present with gf so for now he’s playing up to you — until he hooks a new one or restarts with this one. Maybe this is the time to try to iron out financial details. Although that might snap him out of his “nice” mood.


Kids asked us today at dinnertime when we are going to finalize divorce and move (they are actually looking forward to it). He admitted that he is behind and needs to do more research.,
Not holding my breath..


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## Dadto2 (Aug 11, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Update: laundry war is suspended. We had a deal -pool and yard. I even got coffee and breakfast delivered to bed. Mr Jekyll and Mr Hyde...So Pool is clean, and he did a lot in the garden. I think things are slowing down with gf because he spent every night at home this week.
> Never before doing laundry felt sooo good, lol. I hated that big pile!


So with GF possible out of the picture, do you think his sudden turnaround is an attempt to win you back? That's what I think....especially the breakfast in bed part.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Dadto2 said:


> So with GF possible out of the picture, do you think his sudden turnaround is an attempt to win you back? That's what I think....especially the breakfast in bed part.


No, we are done. I think girlfriend is still there, but they decided to cool it off a little bit. That's simply him. Probably preparing for the laundry-yard negotiations.... When he is in good mood, everything is good, when he is in bad mood, stay away.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Or maybe he’s preparing for the financials coming up (you know, where you don’t fight as much as you otherwise would because he’s being so nice).


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## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

WandaJ said:


> No, we are done. I think girlfriend is still there, but they decided to cool it off a little bit. That's simply him. Probably preparing for the laundry-yard negotiations.... When he is in good mood, everything is good, when he is in bad mood, stay away.


don't let your guard down. And if you haven't seen an attorney, do so sooner than later, even if you're not ready to file.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Frankly, my life won’t be much different after divorce. I will have less money but also the biggest spender will be gone. I’ve been taking care of bills, repairs, house, kids - and I continue doing the same.
> for him -the opposite. He will have to learn to pay bills and keep track of bills, arrange repairs, take care of kids and the house.
> oh, and we have five pets. I think I am getting full custody of these...


Yep. Because unwillingly, you have been enabling him. And his first choice will be to find a new woman to keep enabling him, but hopefully before that happens, he'll have to take the reins for himself and grow the F up.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yep. Because unwillingly, you have been enabling him. And his first choice will be to find a new woman to keep enabling him, but hopefully before that happens, he'll have to take the reins for himself and grow the F up.


Exactly, I was an enabler.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Don't beat yourself up for it. A lot of good women tend to spoil the ones they love. Seems like it usually backfires on them though.


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