# I'm hoping for a woman's insight...



## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to read this, I know it's long. I'm at a complete loss as to what to do in regards to my ex. I need to do what's best for me, and I'm also hoping to work towards reconciling with her, but her actions have me confused.

My ex and I were together for 7 years, and best friends for a year before that. All of our friends saw us as the perfect couple: we were always happy, we never fought, and we couldn't get enough of each other. About 4 years ago we got engaged, and planned to marry this summer after she was done with nursing school.

She lived 4 hours away while she went to school for the past 2 years. During this past year, I became depressed, likely due to the long distance relationship and working in a very stressful and hostile environment. During the last 6 months of our relationship, she began to question her feelings for me. She was following-through with her goals (going back to school, losing 50 lbs., and living an active lifestyle), while I wasn't progressing (I also had goals of getting my MBA, losing weight, and being more physically active). I've dealt with self esteem issues most of my life, which I think was why I didn't go after my goals.

Then she graduated and moved back in with me in December. When suddenly my mom dies, many years too soon. Then, I lost my job. Neither one of us could find work (and being financially independent was her #1 goal). Our house was going through a remodel. Life was overwhelming. We decided to go to couples counseling, which seemed to help. We also made a trip to Seattle for New Years, and fell in love all over again (the trip was just like old times for us). After a couple more counseling sessions, my ex said she was very happy, and didn't feel that we needed any more counseling. Shortly after, she became closed off, became very short with me, and 3 weeks later, she moves out and cancels the wedding, and removes me from all of our joint accounts and removes me from all social networking sites. She told me she loves me, but she's not in love with me.

She lives back with her parents, and she's taken the breakup very hard (although I don't know how she feels about it today). She says she wishes things were different. She also had asked me if she could keep the engagement ring, and I said yes, since it was my gift to her. After a month, I saw her. She couldn't look me in the eyes, and just stared at the floor. But she was surprised by what she saw in me: I had done a 180. Since she left, I lost 15 lbs., I was enrolling in grad school, and I was happy. Life gave me the kick in the ass that I needed to become a better man. After hearing my progress, she seemed to relax, and we had a good talk. She seemed happy, until she started talking about herself. When she talked about herself, everything was negative (I hate the situation I'm in, I feel like I'm stuck, etc). She also said she's ok with the group of friends she has and doesn't want to make any more friends, and she doesn't want to date anyone.

A month later (this last weekend, just over 2 months since she left), she sends me an invitation to be a friend on Facebook again (I didn't accept). She also leaves me a voicemail, saying she's in town this weekend and wants to see me for lunch and pick up a couple of small things she left at my house. I text her back, saying I already had lunch plans (I didn't really). Later on, she texts me back and says she's hoping to stop by and pick up her things. I text her back, saying I won't be home, but her things will be on the back porch.

A mutual friend saw her this last weekend, and all my ex did was talk about herself (my friend, and my counselor, feel that my ex is battling depression and confidence issues). Apparently she's working 3 jobs right now and running/working out every day. She goes out with friends, and flirts with other men. My friend asked my ex if she ever wanted to be with me again, and she said no.

Is it possible that someone could be madly in love with someone, then just switch it off? If she ended the relationship only 2 months ago, why is she reaching out to me? Her frustration with me was my lack of drive, but now I'm achieving my goals. How will this change how she sees me? Can a woman say "I never want to be with him again" but change her mind? I'm getting mixed signals from her. I'm trying to move on, but I still feel a sliver of hope for us. Thank you all for your input...


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## orange (May 20, 2011)

It is definitely possible for a person to fall out of love with someone. Otherwise I would still be in love with my ex-boyfriends. Love is a very fragile and unsure thing so it's precious once we have it.

I don't think you should make any attempts to get back with this girl, but if your intuition is telling you to get back with her, do it.

Do you think you're over her? Or are there still some left over feelings? Don't mistake left over feelings from a relationship as still being in love.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

orange said:


> It is definitely possible for a person to fall out of love with someone. Otherwise I would still be in love with my ex-boyfriends. Love is a very fragile and unsure thing so it's precious once we have it.
> 
> I don't think you should make any attempts to get back with this girl, but if your intuition is telling you to get back with her, do it.
> 
> Do you think you're over her? Or are there still some left over feelings? Don't mistake left over feelings from a relationship as still being in love.


I still love her. And a part of me thinks she still has feelings for me, but she's buried them so deep (she said "I love you, and I can't believe I ever thought about leaving you" a month before she left me). Life became very hard for her, very quick. She became so inwardly focused, that all she could do was think about herself. If life was going well for her and she decided to leave, the separation would be easier for me to accept.

I would like to be with her, but not while she's like this. Our friends see her going through a phase; she's not acting like herself. If she really was over me, why would she want to keep the engagement ring? Why does she not want to date anyone else? I think (and so does my counselor) that she's not letting herself feel anything because she's depressed and overwhelmed. I'm confused as to what to do next. NC is helping me heal, but I also don't want her to completely move on from me. All of my friends are so impressed by how well I'm doing with my workout routine, weight loss, and renewed sense of confidence in myself. I want her to see this new side of me, but I also want to protect myself.


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

There is such an array of issues a person can suffer from. Some individuals can never give themselves or trust another completely. However, that same individual does not want completely to live without the other person.

Sadly, a couple can chase this cycle around and around. They never really get anywhere.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> There is such an array of issues a person can suffer from. Some individuals can never give themselves or trust another completely. However, that same individual does not want completely to live without the other person.
> 
> Sadly, a couple can chase this cycle around and around. They never really get anywhere.


I know of couples who are like this. Trust was never an issue in our relationship, but communication was. She bottled-up her issues with me, and didn't say anything. Then when we started counseling, to cork came out. Her biggest issue was that I wasn't following through with my goals, but she was. She felt like we were going in different directions. At that time, that was very true. But I got the wake-up call that I needed, and I've made huge strides these past two months. Although the changes I've made have been for me, I wonder if it's enough for her to think a little differently about me.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I see her behavior as the ole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" routine. She is reaching out to you as a friend and not a love interest. Some people are like that--want to remain friends. She told mutual friends she did not want to get back together with you. That's a good indication of where her real feelings are.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

She is gone so treat her and the relationship as such.
People generally can't just turn their feelings off from one day to another so my bet is she had been feeling the loss of love for awhile. I know that hurts to read but it's true. Generally the person who wants out has been preparing for it long before it happens.

Don't chase her. She prob just wanted to get in touch w/ you to get her things back.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

827Aug said:


> I see her behavior as the ole "I love you but I'm not in love with you" routine. She is reaching out to you as a friend and not a love interest. Some people are like that--want to remain friends. She told mutual friends she did not want to get back together with you. That's a good indication of where her real feelings are.


It's hard to say. She wants to be friends, but to start the friendship after 2 months? I don't know if this is her only motive. Many feel that she just wants the attention from me (it seems that she's starving for it by only talking about herself, going to bars to have men flirt with her, etc). Just about all of our friends, most of whom still talk to her, think that she and I will work things out in the future. I don't know why they say that, and I've asked them to be upfront with me, so I don't believe they're saying that to make me feel better. I'm not sitting around waiting for her either. I'll date again, but it's entirely too soon for me.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> She is gone so treat her and the relationship as such.
> People generally can't just turn their feelings off from one day to another so my bet is she had been feeling the loss of love for awhile. I know that hurts to read but it's true. Generally the person who wants out has been preparing for it long before it happens.
> 
> Don't chase her. She prob just wanted to get in touch w/ you to get her things back.


I'm trying to treat the relationship as being over, which is part of the reason for the NC.

As far as getting in touch with me, sure, getting her stuff back was a reason to call. But she's called me and texted me with little things off and on since she left, but didn't really need my help. She even designated a friend to call whenever she felt like calling me. And I hear that she wants to call me often.

I don't think that she was prepared to leave all that long before she left. Once we started counseling and started being more open with each other, she seemed very happy. She was affectionate, she would always reach for my hand, hold me, offer me back massages, tell me how happy she was with the new direction we were heading, and on and on. She even asked me to put on my wedding ring on night. I jokingly said "well, we're not married yet". She gave me a pleading smile, and I put my ring on. She held my hand, looked at the ring, and started to tear-up a little. Then she told me how relieved she was that we were going to be ok.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I can't tell if her response to friends was honest or prideful after you obviously blew her off. Either way, I encourage you to move on. This might have been a sneak preview of a life of push/pull, up and down. Just the way she cut you off reminds me of someone who might have something like borderline personality or bipolar.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## orange (May 20, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> I still love her.


I know you said you don't want to be with her when she's 'like this' so could you really picture yourself married to someone who has dealt with mental health issues? It's a big thing to have to live and deal with (my own husband had them and isn't 100% over come with his issues but is getting there.)

If you can't deal with or cope with her when she's depressed what makes you think you could make it work if she became depressed again? I only ask because you raised that point.

Ask yourself this: is she good for you? Would it be good for you to reignite that old relationship or would it be better to let things slide for now? 

My own opinion would be to let *her* reach out to you. If you move on and meet someone else in the meantime, so be it.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

orange said:


> I know you said you don't want to be with her when she's 'like this' so could you really picture yourself married to someone who has dealt with mental health issues? It's a big thing to have to live and deal with (my own husband had them and isn't 100% over come with his issues but is getting there.)
> 
> If you can't deal with or cope with her when she's depressed what makes you think you could make it work if she became depressed again? I only ask because you raised that point.
> 
> ...


I'll take her back, but only if she promises to work on herself as I continue to work on myself. If she doesn't prove that she's committed to helping herself and working on the relationship, then I'll never look back.

I also have my issues. I've been battling depression for most of my life, but I've been working on myself, seeking help, and making huge improvements. If I can overcome this, then I'm willing to believe that she can improve as well, but only if she's willing to put forth the effort.

I think you're right that I need to let her reach out to me, but this is tricky. How will I know if she's reaching out to me or just trying to be friends? I can't let myself misinterpret her intentions and getting hurt again.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If she wants to be with you, she will tell you, show you.
As of right now she's made no mention of it.
If you're confused, you can ask her and then you will have your answer definitively.


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## ClipClop (Apr 28, 2011)

I think if you take her back you are setting up the road map for the rest of your relationship.you're marked for life as a doormat .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

ClipClop said:


> I think if you take her back you are setting up the road map for the rest of your relationship.you're marked for life as a doormat .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't agree with that. If I were willing to be a doormat, I would take her back no matter what. But truthfully, if she isn't willing to work on herself as well, then I won't take her back. I've been a doormat in a previous relationship, and I've learned to become much stronger as a result.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

^ That is the right attitudel If you guys were to get back together, she'd have to earn her way back to you. Then you would consider getting back

Right now though, treat her as a ghost.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> ^ That is the right attitudel If you guys were to get back together, she'd have to earn her way back to you. Then you would consider getting back
> 
> Right now though, treat her as a ghost.


Thanks Jellybeans. She hurt me, and she needs to earn my trust again.

I'm still planning on maintaining NC, but the thought of it scares me a little. When she left me, I was in a very tough spot in life. I lost all of my motivation, my self confidence, my desire to grow in my career, you name it. It's amazing what a difference 2 months or so can make. I'm a completely different man from what I was at the end of our relationship. I'm an improved version of who I used to be. I lost myself for a while, and I came back stronger than ever. If I "treat her as a ghost" as you say, then she won't see this new me. Granted, the changes I've made have been for myself, but I want her to see it as well. I don't want her memories of me to be of this unmotivated, overweight, unhappy person. A part of me wants her to see what she's missing. I just don't know what to do.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jeffsmith77 said:


> If I "treat her as a ghost" as you say, then she won't see this new me. Granted, the changes I've made have been for myself, but I want her to see it as well.


The thing ynoiu keep forgetting is SHE is the one who wanted out. She dum;ped you. She left you. She unilaterally decided the state of your relationship.

Drill that in your head. 

Why on EARTH would chase after someone who has rejected you? Stay no contact. If she reaches out to you, bite but not hard. You want her to see the changes but she doesn't want to see you. So work on you for you.

As for this "being scared" ... lost that and fast. Fear drives a lot of things....fear is pointless. If you let fear rule your life you will never move ahead. Stop fearing. Start doing.


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## Undertheradar (May 11, 2011)

Take this from a guy that has had his heart ripped out and stepped on.....

Back off!!!
Listen to the women on this board! They have seen so much here, and will help you stay strong.
Your ex, is only looking to get her stuff, and to validate her actions. She feels bad (my wife did the same), and the "friends" nonsense, will only help HER move on.


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## jeffsmith77 (Mar 19, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> The thing ynoiu keep forgetting is SHE is the one who wanted out. She dum;ped you. She left you. She unilaterally decided the state of your relationship.
> 
> Drill that in your head.
> 
> ...


Jellybeans, you are so right... I've been doing so well, but these past couple of weeks have made my mind wander. I've lost focus on what is most important: me. I think that I've been struggling with letting go because everyone that is close to her and I believe that we can work it out. They all say that given time, she may want to start again, albeit slowly. It's been difficult when everyone sees hope. But I can't let myself focus on hope.

I think I've been feeling the void, and that's part of the reason my mind has been going wild. My life has been unbearably difficult lately, with my mom's death, my fiance leaving me, seeing my dad fall into depression, being unemployed for over 4 months, worrying that my sister may face jail time for her part in a real estate scheme she was coerced into doing by her abusive husband, and on and on. Right now I need someone more than ever, and the one person I could always count on is gone.


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