# How to handle that wife had FWB



## Jaystone (Oct 9, 2017)

Sun 8 Oct, 2017 07:37 pm
How do I deal with the fact my wife had FWB when we met? 
It's not really that she had a FWB, that makes me mad, but it is that our sex has gone to ****. She lays there and lets me go till i'm done. I have literally done everything to try and make it better. I have tried to introduce new things, tried everything from extended foreplay to toys. Talking with her about it gets me no where. She acts shy about anything new, blow jobs disgust her anf she wont even do handjobs for me. It's gotten to where we dont even make out. We barely kiss during sex. I try and she will kiss me once then turn away? I have talked to her and she says that sex is painful after she had a c-section for our kids. In her credit she had two really bad twin pregnancies. But I try and get her doctors appointments and she either wont go or she says she will make it when she can and she doesn't. I am at my wits end, but I know i dont want to have sex like this, once a week for the rest of my life. We have kids so I don't want to think about divorce but I don't know what to do? So I guess I'm mad, down right infuriated that there was a man my wife liked having sex with so much that she initiated a friends with benifits relationship with him.... But I, the man who loves her more than anything and lives breathes and would die for our family gets such a sad pitiful excuse for sex. Maybe I'm being selfish abd thats why I'm here, I dont know where the line is anymore. I dont even know how to find it.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

It's infuriating. No two ways about it. There are active stories on here and other marriage boards which are relatively the same.... where the woman marries the man for his ability to provide, materially and emotionally, but is not "in to" him sexually. 

Most of these stories have the element of premarital sex on the woman's part to which she gave her full dedication and attention to a man who wasn't "worth" marrying, then tries to fulfill her marriage with "duty" sex no more often than she has to.

No matter how much the husband tries to improve things, talking, counseling, books, doctors, etc.... the basic fact is, she's just not attracted to him sexually. She is really the selfish one, looking out for her own needs and desires, and doesn't care about those of her husband.

Bottom line seems to be that the husband has two basic choices: stay with things never changing, or leave.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I guess it is time to take the bull by the horns and sit your wife down. This is not the marrisge you signed up for before you two had kids. You want your old wife back and you want the marriage with kids you currently have, but you can't do this alone. She needs to seek professional help as to why sex is painful for her. That is not normal after child birth. Most women carry on sexually without pain after giving birth. I had two kids and I have enjoyed sex even more after my kids were born. No pain at all. 

You need to make sure she understands that your marriage may very well end because your needs are not being met. It is not selfish at all when you are being honest and communicsting to save the marriage before resentment and unfullfillment kill it!


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Could you confirm....you and your wife have two sets of twins?

How old are the children?

Are there any other kids in the mix?

How long have you been together/married? 

Sexually, was she always like this with you? If not, when did things change?



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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Talk to her about it. You have a point. However if it is painful she should go to the doctor. How busy is she do you help out?


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

Jaystone said:


> Sun 8 Oct, 2017 07:37 pm
> How do I deal with the fact my wife had FWB when we met?
> It's not really that she had a FWB, that makes me mad, but it is that our sex has gone to ****. She lays there and lets me go till i'm done. I have literally done everything to try and make it better. I have tried to introduce new things, tried everything from extended foreplay to toys. Talking with her about it gets me no where. She acts shy about anything new, blow jobs disgust her anf she wont even do handjobs for me. It's gotten to where we dont even make out. We barely kiss during sex. I try and she will kiss me once then turn away? I have talked to her and she says that sex is painful after she had a c-section for our kids. In her credit she had two really bad twin pregnancies. But I try and get her doctors appointments and she either wont go or she says she will make it when she can and she doesn't. I am at my wits end, but I know i dont want to have sex like this, once a week for the rest of my life. We have kids so I don't want to think about divorce but I don't know what to do? So I guess I'm mad, down right infuriated that there was a man my wife liked having sex with so much that she initiated a friends with benifits relationship with him.... But I, the man who loves her more than anything and lives breathes and would die for our family gets such a sad pitiful excuse for sex. Maybe I'm being selfish abd thats why I'm here, I dont know where the line is anymore. I dont even know how to find it.


Jaystone, you are not selfish. I will say, forget about the FWB from long ago, that's being jealous / envious of a ghost. So your question should not be how to deal with the FWB. Your question should be, how do you deal with the fact that your wife does not want to have sex with you for fun. (Because you have kids, she was willing to have sex for the purpose of making babies - unless your kids are adopted.)

I assume the chorus here will soon say, check to see if she is having affair, and saving her sexual energy for that by denying you. And they are right, you should rule that out first.

But I will mention that you might want to read Athol Kay "Married Man Sex Primer" (I think that is the title). You want to re-make yourself into a man that she is sexually attracted to.

I currently have the problem you have, but with different circumstances e.g. I am much older than you and have a medical problem, and I haven't solved it yet. So I am no expert on how to fix this.

Good luck to you and hope you find a solution.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

2 sets of twins sounds stressful.

How often are the two of you going out, doing dating-like things, without your children?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jaystone said:


> Sun 8 Oct, 2017 07:37 pm
> How do I deal with the fact my wife had FWB when we met?
> It's not really that she had a FWB, that makes me mad, but it is that our sex has gone to ****. She lays there and lets me go till i'm done. I have literally done everything to try and make it better. I have tried to introduce new things, tried everything from extended foreplay to toys. Talking with her about it gets me no where. She acts shy about anything new, blow jobs disgust her anf she wont even do handjobs for me. It's gotten to where we dont even make out. We barely kiss during sex. I try and she will kiss me once then turn away? I have talked to her and she says that sex is painful after she had a c-section for our kids. In her credit she had two really bad twin pregnancies. But I try and get her doctors appointments and she either wont go or she says she will make it when she can and she doesn't. I am at my wits end, but I know i dont want to have sex like this, once a week for the rest of my life. We have kids so I don't want to think about divorce but I don't know what to do? So I guess I'm mad, down right infuriated that there was a man my wife liked having sex with so much that she initiated a friends with benifits relationship with him.... But I, the man who loves her more than anything and lives breathes and would die for our family gets such a sad pitiful excuse for sex. Maybe I'm being selfish abd thats why I'm here, I dont know where the line is anymore. I dont even know how to find it.


Two different things, IMO.

FWB does not always imply it's simply about sex, period. Sex, even casual, is more often about other needs, not just getting off. Just because your wife, or anybody else, had a FWB does not mean she had a burning desire to just get laid and nothing more.

So to equate your wife's past FWB situation to her current lack of a sex drive is false.

Again, sex is SO much more than just getting off. EVEN with casual, FWB, hook ups, whatever.

Second, listen to what she's saying. Sex is uncomfortable after her c-sections and bad pregnancies. I doubt she's lying.

So not only is it possibly painful, or at least unenjoyable for her, perhaps she's also mentally checked out for fear of becoming pregnant again. Even if there's birth control used, or either one of you have been "fixed", any trauma (mental or physical) she's had due to being pregnant and giving birth is, unfortunately, intertwined with HOW she got pregnant in the first place.

Step one is to get your mind off your wife's situation when you met her, because it literally has nothing to do with the current situation AT ALL. Even suggesting to her that it does will not help your case in this in the slightest. It would make it far worse, IMO.

If you're going to (or already have) brought this issue up to her in the way you've described it here, you will only serve to put her off even further. All it will accomplish is to make her feel that you're more concerned about your sex life than hers, or her health or well-being. Even if that's not actually the case, that's exactly how it comes across.

Of course you want her to enjoy sex (with you), but that's definitely not how she'd see it. Trust me.


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## JayDee7 (Sep 12, 2017)

Was she more into it before the kids were born? My wife had pain and was never the same after giving birth. She has got much better in time and now we are having the best we've ever had.

Right now, it's going to be difficult for you. If it hasn't been that long since the babies were born, give it time. It took mine about 4 years to no longer feel pain and discomfort.

The fact that your wife gave away what you value so much, her sexuality, to a man who didn't love her or commit to her has to really hurt. Women don't understand it the way us guys do usually. One of my wife's friends had this problem with her husband, he wanted to do things she had done in the past with literally dozens of men but she no longer wanted to do those activities. She thought he was selfish for wanting her to do things she didn't want to in bed. She openly admitted she had been with dozens of men, nearly 40 before she married him and had done these things with most all of them and no longer wanted to do those things she did when she was single now with her husband.

I explained it to my wife's friends like this, let's say you meet the man of your dreams, a handsome millionaire. He marries you but will not share his money, and is not affectionate or romantic in anyway. He's not cruel and doesn't abuse you in anyway, he provides basic needs, he just doesn't want to share romance or his money with you at all because he had several girlfriends in the past that he used to be very romantic with and bought them expensive gifts and took them on amazing vacations and really poured his heart and his devotion and money into them. Those women who did not want to marry him were spoiled with expensive clothes, purses, shoes, cars, homes, and didn't have to work and were taken to European vacations and treated like queens by him. But they didn't want to marry him so he found you and didn't want to spoil you like he did them. He's been burned by women before so now he will not give away his romance and treasures to you even though you have given him your hand in marriage, his children, you cook and clean for him and are there for him when he needs you however he needs you. You do what you should as a wife for him and he does a good job as a husband but he holds back what he used to give away to unworthy women so freely. She agreed she would divorce the guy, and added something like, what's the use of having a millionaire husband if he wouldn't share his wealth with me when he did with other women who didn't even marry him or love him or have his kids?

I told her that's exactly what men feel when their wife had crazy wild fun sex with guys who didn't care about her or love her and she holds back from her husband who has given her his whole life.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Jaystone said:


> Sun 8 Oct, 2017 07:37 pm
> So I guess I'm mad, down right infuriated that there was a man my wife liked having sex with so much that she initiated a friends with benifits relationship with him.... But I, the man who loves her more than anything and lives breathes and would die for our family gets such a sad pitiful excuse for sex. Maybe I'm being selfish abd thats why I'm here, I dont know where the line is anymore. I dont even know how to find it.


She hadn't had two sets of twins, a difficult C section that resulted in painful sex when she knew him.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Get her to the medical Dr. and to a Marriage therapist. Stop thinking about what she did before life with you happened and changed her body. That is where the problem really lies.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Look up the slang term "Alpha Widow."

You will see her picture there by the definition.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Focusing on the FWB is nothing but pure deflection. A way to not see the actual problem and blame stuff that has no relevance at all. A way to push your insecurities into overdrive so you can let them take over your life, instead of just addressing the actual issue at hand.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

JayDee7 said:


> The fact that your wife gave away what you value so much, her sexuality, to a man who didn't love her or commit to her has to really hurt. Women don't understand it the way us guys do usually. One of my wife's friends had this problem with her husband, he wanted to do things she had done in the past with literally dozens of men but she no longer wanted to do those activities. She thought he was selfish for wanting her to do things she didn't want to in bed. She openly admitted she had been with dozens of men, nearly 40 before she married him and had done these things with most all of them and no longer wanted to do those things she did when she was single now with her husband.


Could it be that the wife had a poor self esteem and when she was sleeping with all those guys, gave sex as a bargaining chip in exchange for closeness, which she thought would translate into their falling in love with her? I believe many women do this. The old saying, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free." Women need to stop thinking that this is just a stupid old fashioned saying. They should not expect love for sex, and just let sex be sex. And if that is what it is, there is no reason they should not give the same to their husband.

If they were exchanging sex for the hope of love, and got burned, they will have no incentive to give wild sex (if they didn't really like it when they were single, they were just going along so they might get love back) when they get a husband.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Look up the slang term "Alpha Widow."
> 
> 
> 
> You will see her picture there by the definition.




Yup. She’s pining away for her high mark. Bedded a 9, married a 6.....but convinced herself she deserved the 9 since she ‘had him’ at one time. Never mind that she was a 6 when she married a 6 and is now a middle aged 4 with 4 kids. She thinks she still deserves the 9 and isn’t that interested in making the 6 happy. Especially since any real consequences will include a cash and prizes consolation. 


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If I'm reading correctly that there are 4 young kids, that would explain the distraction and lack of sexual energy.

Depending on how recent the C-section was, that would also explain the pelvic pain with intercourse.

The pelvic pain however would not explain the reluctance to touch, kiss or the repugnance of doing BJs/HJs.

This is a multifaceted problem that has components of post partum hormonal issues, lifestyle time/energy issues, communication/relationship issues and clearly attractions issues, so this will take a multi-pronged approach to fix.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

JayDee7 said:


> I told her that's exactly what men feel when their wife had crazy wild fun sex with guys who didn't care about her or love her and she holds back from her husband who has given her his whole life.


So did your wife's friend get divorced or did she make an effort with her husband?


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

alexm said:


> Two different things, IMO.
> 
> FWB does not always imply it's simply about sex, period. Sex, even casual, is more often about other needs, not just getting off. Just because your wife, or anybody else, had a FWB does not mean she had a burning desire to just get laid and nothing more.


This may be my inexperience but I thought FWB was absolutely only about sex. I thought anything beyond that puts you in a relationship.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Regardless of the FWB issue, this happens all the time in long-term couples. The sex they had while dating was hot, adventurous, and enthusiastic, but then their sex life is practically dead after a decade and several kids. It's not that the FWB dudes were that much hotter than her current husband. Back when they were dating, she had the same hot sex with him as her FWB dudes. It's that the length of the relationship cools that passion. If you get fixated on the FWB dudes, you will destroy any chance of recovery. You will be focused on the wrong problem, and you'll likely dredge up so much garbage that your relationship will suffer.

The sex issue you have in your relationship is the same as most of the threads we see here: After a long time and many kids, the passion has died. Forget about the FWB and work on your very common problem.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Jaystone said:


> So I guess I'm mad, down right infuriated that there was a man my wife liked having sex with so much that she initiated a friends with benifits relationship with him....


If your wife indeed initiated a FWB before meeting you, it may have had nothing to do with the fact that she liked sex so much. It could have been a whole other set of reasons all together. This however is a moot point...

One problem is that this other man seems to be ideal for a way for you to redirect your frustrations instead of dealing with the fact that sex has become problematic in your marriage. If you are expecting your wife to maintain the same enthusiasm and frequency for intimacy from when your relationship was new and in the "honeymoon" phase, then you are being unrealistic. Sex can actually get better and way more meaningful, but it will NOT be the same as from the past. You have to progress and move forwards. You can't be married and want to move backwards. 

As to what will help things progress, generally speaking it is often closely associated with your own personal development as well as the same for your wife. You each have to take responsibility for your own happiness and share that with one another as opposed to feeling entitled that the other person should be giving you happiness. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Yup. She’s pining away for her high mark. Bedded a 9, married a 6.....but convinced herself she deserved the 9 since she ‘had him’ at one time. Never mind that she was a 6 when she married a 6 and is now a middle aged 4 with 4 kids. She thinks she still deserves the 9 and isn’t that interested in making the 6 happy. Especially since any real consequences will include a cash and prizes consolation.


Ouch!

Someone pinched your Sour Puss?


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

Your wife liked screwing her FWB but doesn't like screwing you simple as that.

A lot of women today (not all) spend their teens and 20's having a lot of casual sex with alpha type males (guys much better looking then them comparatively). When it comes to marrying because their biological clock is ticking, these guys won't commit to them so they "settle" for a guy like you, pop out a few kids, cut off the sex, divorce you, then go back to screwing guys they find attractive while you play every other weekend Disney Dad. This is a very very common script.

There is typically nothing you can do to change it, you're not your wife's type, she sees you as a friend and paycheck, not a lover.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Jaystone said:


> Sun 8 Oct, 2017 07:37 pm
> I have talked to her and she says that sex is painful after she had a c-section for our kids. In her credit she had two really bad twin pregnancies.


Maybe I'm just a dumb guy but maybe sex literally means pain, feeling sh*t and agony for her. Imagine being brutally beaten to an inch of your life inside say a church, maybe after you've healed every time you go into a church you trigger because the beating and the venue are now inextricably linked.

I don't really see where this other dude fits in? Your wife married you and had your kids (very painfully), notwithstanding you have intimacy issues that need to be met, fair enough, I can't imagine she feels very sexy when undressing and looking at C-section scars and having sex that she links to the memory of her bad pregnancies.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

BobSimmons said:


> Maybe I'm just a dumb guy but maybe sex literally means pain, feeling sh*t and agony for her. Imagine being brutally beaten to an inch of your life inside say a church, maybe after you've healed every time you go into a church you trigger because the beating and the venue are now inextricably linked.
> 
> I don't really see where this other dude fits in? Your wife married you and had your kids (very painfully), notwithstanding you have intimacy issues that need to be met, fair enough, I can't imagine she feels very sexy when undressing and looking at C-section scars and having sex that she links to the memory of her bad pregnancies.


Doesn't explain why she won't kiss him.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

TAM2013 said:


> Doesn't explain why she won't kiss him.


Or blow jobs, hand jobs, talking dirty to him, her masturbating in front of him using only her clit or a vibrator. I mean it doesn't all have to be PIV sex if that's painful for her.

It's obvious this is a case of good enough to pay the bills, but not have access to her body, that's for a higher class guy in her mind because her FWB so many years ago was so hot...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Now here's the thing...

As others have alluded to.

She had a FWB partner.
She had sex with another man for companionship.

This you know. What you do not know is whether she enjoyed the sex.

Only she knows that. And she is not here. And she will likely not tell...either way.

The only thing important to OP is what to do about "his" issue with her lack of any normal sexual response in their marriage.

I fear the worst case.

A parting of, not legs....no, a parting of these two married people.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Jaystone,

You wrote, *How do I deal with the fact my wife had FWB when we met? *

Makes it very tough, especially if your W saw the FWB and you at the same time.

Many times women will dump someone they are very attracted to and marry the man they feel they can trust and will love them, however the feelings of passion for that other man never really go away. 

If the FWB was married you bust him to his wife, or if he had a GF you bust him to her too. Put the ghost of the FWB back into the grave.

If the FWB is still on your Ws facebook or other social media you chase him off in no uncertain terms.

Do you need to DNA your kids?

Tamat


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Yup. She’s pining away for her high mark. Bedded a 9, married a 6.....but convinced herself she deserved the 9 since she ‘had him’ at one time. Never mind that she was a 6 when she married a 6 and is now a middle aged 4 with 4 kids. She thinks she still deserves the 9 and isn’t that interested in making the 6 happy. Especially since any real consequences will include a cash and prizes consolation.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I dunno, posts like this get me. Who's to say the 6M stayed a 6? Why does 6F automatically downgrade to a 4? is it the kids? 

-----


OP: Your wife may need some counseling, and I agree with another poster that if there's pain she should see a medical dr. But pain in one place doesn't prevent the other sorts of "fun" so it seems she has some issues. Both partners should try and meet the other's needs in a marriage. If you feel neglected then there needs to be a way to bring it up and resolve it (perhaps in front of an MC) otherwise you can't just let things continue as they are. 

It's not selfish to want intimacy in marriage. Something has got to change. 

That said, the FWB she had before you shouldn't mean anything unless he didn't stop being a FWB after your marriage. Historical **** doesn't count.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

If it were me she would be my ex wife. Was she like this sexually before you married her. If so what you saw is what you got. If she was not this way it is apparent that she is not sexually attracted to you or is cheating on you. Many women will stop having sex with their husbands when they are having an affair. As silly as it sounds, they do no want to cheat on their lover. 

My wife stopped wanting to have sex with me when we moved away from the girlfriend we shared. She needs both genders in bed with her to enjoy sex. What I did was tell her that I understand why she is not in the mood for sex anymore but I assume that means I can date other women since I cannot live without a woman who does not want to have sex with me. She said no and I said she has a choice and she knows from past experience that I can easily get a girlfriend. In fact she jokes that she is sure that I will find a date to bring to her funeral. What we did was have sex twice a week if only to cuddle and in a few weeks that good old Oxytocin took effect and brought us emotionally close again. At the age of 65 my wife is having some of the best orgasms of her life. She just needed time to get ofer the loss of her lifelong girlfriend/lover. There is always a reason and you either fix it or move on. 

The first time I found myself in your situation, a girlfriend who just laid there, I left her. She is married to a woman now. Another one was having sex with a friend of mine. There is always a reason if it is not just thinking sex is dirty and for procreation only.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> Jaystone,
> 
> You wrote, *How do I deal with the fact my wife had FWB when we met? *
> 
> ...


The OP didn't say anything that indicates any infidelity or any continued contact with the FWB.

The only thing contacting the FWB's would accomplish would be making him look like a psycho stalker and perhaps being reported to the police as a nut.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I told men time and time again to never get into a relationship with a woman who doesn't think you hung the moon. And yes they will reveal if they think you're only a "good catch" and not someone who makes them wet their pants just smelling your hair.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

TAM2013 said:


> Doesn't explain why she won't kiss him.


?

Really? 2 bad pregnancies, some c-sections maybe she's become asexual. OP being a dude and a nice guy probably pushes himself on her, hence she responds with the duty sex with absolutely no feeling, so why would a kiss be any different?

The OP has only posted once. There's zero induction the fwb is in the picture only that the guy used to bang his woman before they met so it's bizarre the OP is connecting the fwb to his current situation when he specifically mentions the bad pregnancies and c-sections. Seems the sex is bad after this fact not before the kids.

But this being a post and run I suspect the story will wildly alter...


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

oldshirt wrote, *The OP didn't say anything that indicates any infidelity or any continued contact with the FWB.

The only thing contacting the FWB's would accomplish would be making him look like a psycho stalker and perhaps being reported to the police as a nut. *

Correct but *IF* it is true that she cheated on him while dating or didn't tell him until after marriage or is still in casual contact with the FWB it is very relevant to why his W has not recovered her attraction to him.

Many spouses think that because they have forgiven the cheating spouse and moved on that the cheater has also recovered which is rarely the case. More often fast forgiveness just buries it without resolution.

Tamat


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TAMAT said:


> oldshirt wrote, *The OP didn't say anything that indicates any infidelity or any continued contact with the FWB.
> 
> The only thing contacting the FWB's would accomplish would be making him look like a psycho stalker and perhaps being reported to the police as a nut. *
> 
> ...



I don't want to haggle over semantics but I did not get the impression that he felt she was cheating on him with the FWB. He just said she had one when they met and he didn't say anything else that implied she was still seeing the FWB on the down-low after they got together. 

I am not getting the impression that this has anything to do with cheating or infidelity or anything like that. 

I think he just has a big hang up that she was having casual, care-free, monkey sex with the FWB back in the day where as she is a dead starfish with him now.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Jaystone said:


> Sun 8 Oct, 2017 07:37 pm
> How do I deal with the fact my wife had FWB when we met?
> It's not really that she had a FWB, that makes me mad, but it is that our sex has gone to ****. She lays there and lets me go till i'm done. I have literally done everything to try and make it better. I have tried to introduce new things, tried everything from extended foreplay to toys. Talking with her about it gets me no where. She acts shy about anything new, blow jobs disgust her anf she wont even do handjobs for me. It's gotten to where we dont even make out. We barely kiss during sex. I try and she will kiss me once then turn away? I have talked to her and she says that sex is painful after she had a c-section for our kids. In her credit she had two really bad twin pregnancies. But I try and get her doctors appointments and she either wont go or she says she will make it when she can and she doesn't. I am at my wits end, but I know i dont want to have sex like this, once a week for the rest of my life. We have kids so I don't want to think about divorce but I don't know what to do? So I guess I'm mad, down right infuriated that there was a man my wife liked having sex with so much that she initiated a friends with benifits relationship with him.... But I, the man who loves her more than anything and lives breathes and would die for our family gets such a sad pitiful excuse for sex. Maybe I'm being selfish abd thats why I'm here, I dont know where the line is anymore. I dont even know how to find it.




You do have options don't think you don't. Wife doesn't want to be a wife, has an affair maybe several as far as you know., won't have sex with you but will with other guys.....you do not want to get divorced because you love her.....well my friend if you really love her then don't subject her to spending the rest of her life being married to a man she no longer finds desirable. ....Do your wife a favor and file for divorce. An add d benifit to this will be that a few months without her you will find that you are happy....plus there are an awful lot of single women around that are looking for a decent guy.......do your wife a favor....move on.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Araucaria said:


> She hadn't had two sets of twins, a difficult C section that resulted in painful sex when she knew him.
> 
> You are comparing apples and oranges. Get her to the medical Dr. and to a Marriage therapist. Stop thinking about what she did before life with you happened and changed her body. That is where the problem really lies.


i am not following something here. It is very painful for her to have sex with you.... BUT she has a FWB and has no trouble having sex with HIM? 

Hmmmm....i smell a rat here. 
Either she is gaslighting you seriously, or she has some serious subconscious mental issues that need a professionals counseling to fix. Either way, do not believe her "its hurts when we have sex" bull****


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

BobSimmons said:


> ?
> 
> Really? 2 bad pregnancies, some c-sections maybe she's become asexual. OP being a dude and a nice guy probably pushes himself on her, hence she responds with the duty sex with absolutely no feeling, so why would a kiss be any different?
> ..


for psychological reasons, maybe she needs to get her tubes tied. maybe subconsciously she fears getting pregnant again


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jus260 said:


> This may be my inexperience but I thought FWB was absolutely only about sex. I thought anything beyond that puts you in a relationship.


I mean the motives for it.

Yes, having a FWB means you have someone you have sex with, without the relationship part.

But generally speaking, even having a casual F-buddy is about more than just the physical aspect of sex and getting off. Hell, even a ONS isn't just about getting off.

Human beings require interaction and touch, but don't always want an emotional connection. Hence, a FWB.

It's rarely about simply getting off, having an orgasm. It's validation, it's interaction and physical touch, it's an ego or self-esteem booster.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

2x c-section twin pregnancies is going to change a person, physically as well as mentally. I'm kind of surprised more posters aren't being mindful of this.

Sex is very important, I never downplay its importance, but a person's life mold who they become. When she was with her FWB she wasn't saddled with the same responsibilities she is now.

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I think it's apples and oranges.

What you need to concentrate on IMO is why she's not having sex with YOU. Not why she had sex with some other person before you were together.

Comparing is a dangerous path that can only lead you to resentment and jealousy. She's with you, not him.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

There's an interesting search on the internet:

"Alpha ****s, beta bucks".

I have found this in my own life to be quite true. Being a "5" is a curse. It means that you will always be the "beta" in your wife's eyes.

You'll be good for the bucks, but not for the ......


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

TJW said:


> There's an interesting search on the internet:
> 
> "Alpha ****s, beta bucks".
> 
> ...


Bang 4's and below and don't give them a cent. Problem solved. That's where we're heading anyway.

Red Pill, anyone?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TJW said:


> There's an interesting search on the internet:
> 
> "Alpha ****s, beta bucks".
> 
> ...


First of all being a "5" is subjective. Besides that this stuff is not static. You can lift weights and lose weight or put on muscle, you can dress really good. You can learn about and dive into life so you have fun things to talk about and are interesting. You can become ambitious and improve your career and make better money. If you have a face that is not symmetrical or conventionally attractive you can get plastic surgery. Besides that Men are lucky because women are not as focused on looks as we are. A lot of is it confidence, being able to talk, and having some prospects. None of that is that hard if you just consistently work on it. These things actually work like a cycle. Improve your career, get some confidence, be more comfortable talking, have more success with dating. No one is stuck being a 5 if they don't wan to be. The thing that makes people a 5 is the attitude that they are stuck being a 5 and that's it. It has nothing to do with anything else. Fear and inertia are the only things that stop you, it's not looks, or status. 

Guys who are beta, using stupid Red Pills ideas are beta because they are unassertive and don't take agency in their own lives. It has nothing to do with framing and all that other garbage. All that is really required in this world to be an Alpha is to be assertive and proactive in your own person hood. Not playing games to have lots of sex.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

sokillme said:


> First of all being a "5" is subjective. Besides that this stuff is not static. You can lift weights and lose weight or put on muscle, you can dress really good. You can learn about and dive into life so you have fun things to talk about and are interesting. You can become ambitious and improve your career and make better money. If you have a face that is not symmetrical or conventionally attractive you can get plastic surgery. *Besides that Men are lucky because women are not as focused on looks as we are*. A lot of is it confidence, being able to talk, and having some prospects. None of that is that hard if you just consistently work on it. These things actually work like a cycle. Improve your career, get some confidence, be more comfortable talking, have more success with dating. No one is stuck being a 5 if they don't wan to be. *The thing that makes people a 5 is the attitude that they are stuck being a 5 and that's it. It has nothing to do with anything else. Fear and inertia are the only things that stop you, it's not looks, or status*.
> 
> Guys who are beta, using stupid Red Pills ideas are beta because they are unassertive and don't take agency in their own lives. It has nothing to do with framing and all that other garbage. All that is really required in this world to be an Alpha is to be assertive and proactive in your own person hood. Not playing games to have lots of sex.



I agree with most of what you wrote above, except the bolded parts. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Looks are important to women and the world will be made more and more aware of this as we are now allowed to have sexual preferences at all in these ages, unlike previous ones. Sorry guys, you no longer get to rest on the faith that women don't care about looks like men do. Yes, we do. Sometimes we care about looks even more than men do and on an even pickier level.

There will always be some women who will not hurt men's egos by saying the truth, and they will tell you that confidence and all those other things are more important than looks. Then as soon as you walk away, they tell their girlfriends whether you are f*ckable or not based on your looks only, just like guys do.

Please. Please stop spreading the myth. It is much better to just acknowledge the truth and work from there.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Then as soon as you walk away, they tell their girlfriends whether you are f*ckable or not based on your looks only, just like guys do.


Classy.

I'm a solid 7.5 anyway so by your reckoning, 3/4 of the female population would bang. You made my day.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree with most of what you wrote above, except the bolded parts. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Looks are important to women and the world will be made more and more aware of this as we are now allowed to have sexual preferences at all in these ages, unlike previous ones. Sorry guys, you no longer get to rest on the faith that women don't care about looks like men do. Yes, we do. Sometimes we care about looks even more than men do and on an even pickier level.
> 
> There will always be some women who will not hurt men's egos by saying the truth, and they will tell you that confidence and all those other things are more important than looks. Then as soon as you walk away, they tell their girlfriends whether you are f*ckable or not based on your looks only, just like guys do.
> 
> Please. Please stop spreading the myth. It is much better to just acknowledge the truth and work from there.


Well.. yes and no. 

Part of looks is physique. Any man can sculpt his physique. I've known many a man who, truth be told is butt ugly in the face, but lands hot women because he's positively ripped from the neck down. This works both ways as an average looking woman with a killer bod is also going to get plenty of attention. (side note: This is actually a way men have it easier than women: I can grow bigger pecs a lot easier than a woman can grow bigger boobs).

Yes, looks are important to just about everyone. But how important? And can other things compensate? Christy Brinkley was the hottest supermodel on the planet, both gorgeous and rich of her own labors. She could have had anybody, maxing out the hot scale, yet she married Billy Joel. How 'bout Julia Roberts and Lyle Lovett? Shannon Tweed was a Playmate of the Year--if he wasn't already a world famous rock star, how many women would think Gene Simmons was gorgeous, with or without makeup? 

Lots of ugly ducks out there landing swans.


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## WasDecimated (Mar 23, 2011)

Satya said:


> 2x c-section twin pregnancies is going to change a person, physically as well as mentally. I'm kind of surprised more posters aren't being mindful of this.
> 
> Sex is very important, I never downplay its importance, but a person's life mold who they become. When she was with her FWB she wasn't saddled with the same responsibilities she is now.
> 
> ...


My X had C-section scars and stretch marks from 3 kids and also stopped touching and having sex with me too. She also had a history of FWB before we met.

Little by little all the loving from her stopped. It became totally one-sided. She always had an excuse ready. She didn't want to kiss and even resisted hold hands. I tried everything to possible to help her and figure out what was wrong. I even took on most of the household responsibilities hoping to give her a break. It didn't matter how many times I told her she was beautiful or that I loved her. Nothing worked. 

I finally started checking the cell phone bill. As it turns out, C-section scars and stretch marks didn't stop her from being naked with OM while I was at work. This was not about self esteem, it was about selfishness. 

The point I wanted to make is, a history of FWB's could be an indication of someones casual attitude towards sex. When boredom and familiarity set into a marriage, The casual attitude towards sex my be the difference between discussing and appreciation or cheating and betrayal. 

I'm not saying you wife is cheating but you may want to do some quiet digging just to eliminate it as a possibility.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

If you're ugly, make a lot of money and women will fall at your feet. Look at all the rich disgusting old men with beautiful woman by their side. If you're ugly and broke? You're screwed.

Women care about looks and status basically exclusively, it's what they base a mans value on, what you look like, how much your earning potential is, then it goes into being funny or kind. The prettier she is, the more she can demand looks and status from her man. The lower her sexual value is then she has to compromise on certain things, or she gets what she needs from multiple men (cuckolding BF or husband while maintaining the relationship with a superior sexual partner maybe even having his children). Men base a woman's value almost exclusively on looks. A man will put up with an impossibly mean ***** if she's hot enough. The lower the mans value the more he'll compromise on her looks, but with lesser looks he'll expect her to be nicer.

As a woman if you're a 5 and up the world is yours, as a man if you're an 8 an up the world is yours. Dudes like 4-7 have to likely be a beta-bux and accept their wife or GF is with them out of necessity, comfort, to have financial support and help for her kids, but would rather be ****ing and intimately involved with her friends husband who's a 9. Odds are she will at some point in the marriage/relationship step out with some Alpha type guy juggling 10 women (she deludes herself into believing because this guy bangs her, she deserves this in marriage, which is absurd, obviously, men will screw down, but rarely marry down, especially a top 95th percentile type of guy, he's not marrying a 5). If you're a dude who's a 3 and below you likely can't get laid or maintain a relationship, even 1-3 women would rather be cat lady's or some 6's **** buddy than settle down with you.

To re-cap
8-10 - you get laid all the time and life is great (15-20% of men)

4-7 - you rarely get laid in your teens and 20's, eek out relationships in between months of dry spells and hanging with bros, but likely get cheated on in your relationships. You marry a woman who likely spent a decade ****ing 8-10's even if she's a 5 or 6 and because of that she will never be satisfied with you and there's a very good chance she cuckold's you and divorces you (alpha widow). You hit your prime in late 30's and 40's and can get laid pretty much whenever you want by women panicking that they're 30+ and unmarried with no kids. These are the "good men" women wonder about but never seem to really want, they're typically more emotionally available and willing to support his woman, kinder, more sensitive and willing to commit (bell curve, about 65% of men)

1-3 - you become MGTOW, buy a sex doll, or otherwise go crazy because life is impossible for you. (10-15% of men)

They don't call it the bitter red pill for nothing.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Well.. yes and no.
> 
> Part of looks is physique. Any man can sculpt his physique. I've known many a man who, truth be told is butt ugly in the face, but lands hot women because he's positively ripped from the neck down. This works both ways as an average looking woman with a killer bod is also going to get plenty of attention. *(side note: This is actually a way men have it easier than women: I can grow bigger pecs a lot easier than a woman can grow bigger boobs).*
> 
> ...


Two comments about the bolded....the first bolded, actually I would disagree. I think women have it easier, as we don't actually have to grow bigger boobs in order to become more attractive to more men. Generally if a woman is a few pounds overweight, she can lose that few pounds and suddenly have a bombshell hourglass figure (or she had one and now the curves have more contrast to them at her waist), whereas a guy typically cannot achieve a triangular shape by just increasing his pecs. Getting "firmed up" or even losing a few pounds does not give a guys that shape that women's eye is caught by (unless he already has that shape due to fitness and genetics and only has let himself go for a short while).

The second bolded....you and other men have tried to make this comparison for all of time. Sorry, it just doesn't add up. No matter how many examples you can give me of ugly duck dudes with swan women, I can give you 1,000 examples of beautiful male swan with beautiful female swan for each ugly duck example you have. So why would you keep insisting on bringing up only the outliers and point to them and say this is the "truth" about female preferences and attraction?

And further on that point...straight men are notoriously bad at understanding which men straight women find attractive. So a guy you or other straight guys may deem as "unattractive" or "average" or worse....a lot of women may disagree and find him very attractive. Now you guys may try to say "ok well it is because she is adding in this or that factor and that raises his attractiveness". This seems to be the only way you can explain it to yourself....but there is a much easier answer: straight guys are bad at knowing what is an attractive guy to women because you are not attracted to guys, period.

So when you say sure it is important, but how important and can other things compensate? Well as a highly sexual woman, I'd say no, they can't. I know what attracts me and what doesn't, and I have to feel that pulse rising due to physical attraction for a man or else....my body simply will not respond to him. Other factors may make me love, admire, respect him, etc...but no amount of other characteristics will make my body respond to a man who is not physically and sexually attractive to me. And I'm glad of that. Because I love the way it feels to respond sexually to a man I'm physically and sexually attracted to. I would hate to have to "focus on his other qualities" and ignore his physical presence just to try to get aroused by a man....and it wouldn't work anyway.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Talker67 said:


> i am not following something here. It is very painful for her to have sex with you.... BUT she has a FWB and has no trouble having sex with HIM?
> 
> Hmmmm....i smell a rat here.
> Either she is gaslighting you seriously, or she has some serious subconscious mental issues that need a professionals counseling to fix. Either way, do not believe her "its hurts when we have sex" bull****


She had a FWB when she was single, at the time OP met her. Sex was good until OP and his wife had two sets of twins, with a C-section. Now OP is upset sex is not like it was before they were married and she had all those births. 

It is called "Retroactive Jealousy." Sometimes people get jealous of the sex their spouses had with previous partners years after the fact.

OP, don't destroy your marriage over this. Get her to the Dr. to find out why it hurts, and get a hold of your head and heart.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There are attractive women married to unattractive but wealthy men......but that doesn't mean that they are having wild monkey sex with them. 

Julia Roberts may have been as much of a dead starfish in Lyle's bed as the OP's wife is in his. 

However I think some of this stuff is getting a little off track. 

Most if not darn near all adult women today have had some kind of FWB or FB at some point in their life today. The OP's wife is not an outlier because she had an FWB or two at some point. There is nothing unusual in that. 

What is at issue here is not that she had an FWB and I am not sure where people are coming up with the cheating/infidelity angle because nothing he said indicates any kind of cheating. 

What is at issue is her lack of desire, her lack of please and excitement during sex and her lack of attractive and desire for the OP *TODAY*.

I think the FWB is a big, red herring and I think it is something the OP is inappropriately blaming and focusing his contempt on too much. 

His issues and problems are hear and now today and don't really have anything to do with some dude she hooked up a number of times back in the day. He needs to focus on getting his own house straightened up in the present day. 

And I think this is a multifaceted issue that involves post partum pain, exhaustion and overwhelmed from 2 sets of twins. Probably some communication break down and relationship issues from dealing with a household with 2 sets of twins and an attraction issue where she has lost (or never had) her sexual attraction to him. 

I am not sure this FWB plays any kind of role in this, other than in the OP's own mind.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> There are attractive women married to unattractive but wealthy men......but that doesn't mean that they are having wild monkey sex with them.
> 
> Julia Roberts may have been as much of a dead starfish in Lyle's bed as the OP's wife is in his.
> 
> ...




....... Let me put it this way, her old FWB may be the tallest, buffest, handsomest and most smooth and charming alpha male stud on the planet, but in her current state she may be just as uninterested as hooking up with him and may be just as much of a dead starfish with him in the sack as she is with the OP. 

Additionally, the FWB may have been a fun hook up from the campus hot spot when she was a 19 year old coed; but swap out the OP for him in the house now and she may be just as uninspired and just as much of a starfish with the FWB as she is with the OP. 

She may even react more negatively towards the FWB now because he has no connection or ties to her minor offspring and may see him as a danger to them. 

(now at that "7-Year Itch) mark where the kids are old enough to start fending for themselves a little bit, that may change things as that is when Mother Nature wants a fertile female to start looking for another mate for her next offspring to diversify the gene pool) 

But with 2 sets of twins tearing the house apart, Adonis himself may not be able to trip her trigger at the moment.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Two comments about the bolded....the first bolded, actually I would disagree. I think women have it easier, as we don't actually have to grow bigger boobs in order to become more attractive to more men. Generally if a woman is a few pounds overweight, she can lose that few pounds and suddenly have a bombshell hourglass figure (or she had one and now the curves have more contrast to them at her waist), whereas a guy typically cannot achieve a triangular shape by just increasing his pecs. Getting "firmed up" or even losing a few pounds does not give a guys that shape that women's eye is caught by (unless he already has that shape due to fitness and genetics and only has let himself go for a short while).
> I would still disagree here. I've never seen a man who cant get a triangle shape--some more than others sure, due as you say to genetics. But anybody can get some, it just may take more work.
> 
> The second bolded....you and other men have tried to make this comparison for all of time. Sorry, it just doesn't add up. No matter how many examples you can give me of ugly duck dudes with swan women, I can give you 1,000 examples of beautiful male swan with beautiful female swan for each ugly duck example you have. Really? I'm curious as to how you come to that conclusion? So why would you keep insisting on bringing up only the outliers and point to them and say this is the "truth" about female preferences and attraction? Unlike you, I really don't claim to know the proportion on either side. I just know it happens, and it happens with some frequency. In my experience, I've seen it more one way than the other, but I also admit my experience is anecdotal and may not be statistically significant. What I also have observed is that the only men I've known who hook up with ugly ducklings is because they are just doing that--hooking up. They prey on pathetic ugly girls seeking attention and validation through sex.
> ...


At this point, it's also worth noting that a 5 to one person is not a 5 to all. There is much variation in the eyes of the beholder. Even those generally highly rated will not turn on everyone. My wife thinks Leonardo DiCaprio is a weenie and Brad Pitt is nothing special. I think Pamela Anderson is repulsive and Gisele Bundchen is a hideous hag. The same works in reverse as there are some seemingly average people we find quite attractive.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I see this as key. Not all people have the same preferences (which is good!). I know that there are a lot of men who like tall, slender, big-boobed women. Thats fine, but that particular look doesn't do anything for me. I happen to prefer healthier build, smaller breasts and dark or with the right face, red hair. OTOH, I don't find most Asian women attractive, but lots of men do. 

Similarly some women like muscular men, some prefer slender. Some like beards and lots of hair, others not. 

Certainly there are women that on average men find more attractive than other women, but there is a huge range. 

Similarly people look for different personalities. I have no interest in a woman who likes to drink and party - its just not my scene. OTOH, I'm not interested in a woman who isn't happy going for a several mile walk. 








Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> At this point, it's also worth noting that a 5 to one person is not a 5 to all. There is much variation in the eyes of the beholder. Even those generally highly rated will not turn on everyone. My wife thinks Leonardo DiCaprio is a weenie and Brad Pitt is nothing special. I think Pamela Anderson is repulsive and Gisele Bundchen is a hideous hag. The same works in reverse as there are some seemingly average people we find quite attractive.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> I agree with most of what you wrote above, except the bolded parts. Please stop perpetuating this myth. Looks are important to women and the world will be made more and more aware of this as we are now allowed to have sexual preferences at all in these ages, unlike previous ones. Sorry guys, you no longer get to rest on the faith that women don't care about looks like men do. Yes, we do. Sometimes we care about looks even more than men do and on an even pickier level.
> 
> There will always be some women who will not hurt men's egos by saying the truth, and they will tell you that confidence and all those other things are more important than looks. Then as soon as you walk away, they tell their girlfriends whether you are f*ckable or not based on your looks only, just like guys do.
> 
> Please. Please stop spreading the myth. It is much better to just acknowledge the truth and work from there.


Didn't say it wasn't important not just as important. When men spend the same kind of money on beauty produces that women do, and don't tell me they do it all for themselves. Look at how women are portrayed in men's magazines, or beer ads. Then look at women's magazines when most of the objects of beauty are women. show me the male equivalent of this. Yes I am generalizing but generally speaking women don't care about the appearance of their spouse the same way that men do. Sexual attraction is not as tied to appearance for women as it is for men. It's just not. We are not the same in this way. Now are their some outliers sure but the priorities are different. That was my point and I stick with it.

If you have the other qualities I spoke of you will have a much higher pool of women that are interested in you (there is still going to be lots of women whose priority doesn't have to do with looks), then say having the same and being an unattractive women. May not seem fair but life is not fair. 

I believe the study. I think maybe you are the outlier and not the women I am talking about. There are enough who are not like you. However I also believe if you are a man be as attractive as you can be to hedge your bets.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> She had a FWB when she was single, at the time OP met her. Sex was good until OP and his wife had two sets of twins, with a C-section. Now OP is upset sex is not like it was before they were married and she had all those births.
> 
> It is called "Retroactive Jealousy." Sometimes people get jealous of the sex their spouses had with previous partners years after the fact.
> 
> OP, don't destroy your marriage over this. Get her to the Dr. to find out why it hurts, and get a hold of your head and heart.


Araucaria and I must have been posting the same time and I did not see this post. 

Araucaria said it much better and much more concisely than I did.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> At this point, it's also worth noting that a 5 to one person is not a 5 to all. There is much variation in the eyes of the beholder. Even those generally highly rated will not turn on everyone. My wife thinks Leonardo DiCaprio is a weenie and Brad Pitt is nothing special. I think Pamela Anderson is repulsive and Gisele Bundchen is a hideous hag. The same works in reverse as there are some seemingly average people we find quite attractive.


I think that this phenomenon favors women way more than it favors men. Certain qualities in a man lower his SMV across the spectrum. If you're a short, fat, bald 55 year old, you're probably a 2 or 3 to all women. If you're famous, maybe your rank goes up some, but it's still lower than if you had the same fame with better physical qualities. For a woman with large breasts (for example) half the men will find her attractive on that alone, while the other half would prefer smaller. Same with height, weight and other physical attributes. The SMV scale of men is more universal than the SMV scale for women.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think that this phenomenon favors women way more than it favors men. Certain qualities in a man lower his SMV across the spectrum. If you're a short, fat, bald 55 year old, you're probably a 2 or 3 to all women. If you're famous, maybe your rank goes up some, but it's still lower than if you had the same fame with better physical qualities. For a woman with large breasts (for example) half the men will find her attractive on that alone, while the other half would prefer smaller. Same with height, weight and other physical attributes. The SMV scale of men is more universal than the SMV scale for women.


On another thread, lots of ladies chimed in about how they liked bald men. Fat is fixable, so no excuse for crying there. 

Tom Cruise is all of 5'7". 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliegerstein/celebs-who-prove-that-short-guys-are-super-hot-too?utm_term=.lfBWJ738Gq#.eb2MdjYG2o

Mickey Rooney was 5'2" and he got to bed Ava Garnder and Lana Turner.


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## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think that this phenomenon favors women way more than it favors men. Certain qualities in a man lower his SMV across the spectrum. If you're a short, fat, bald 55 year old, you're probably a 2 or 3 to all women. If you're famous, maybe your rank goes up some, but it's still lower than if you had the same fame with better physical qualities. For a woman with large breasts (for example) half the men will find her attractive on that alone, while the other half would prefer smaller. Same with height, weight and other physical attributes. The SMV scale of men is more universal than the SMV scale for women.


This is the case, but women are simply the more interesting and better looking sex. If they weren't the men wouldn't compete for them. A woman can absorb 20 lbs a lot better than a man can. Added weight for a woman might give her bigger breasts, butt, and more of a figure. Where the man starts taking the shape of a potato and looks like garbage with even an added 10lbs.

But all is not lost, plenty of ugly, short men, land beautiful women:

1. looks
2. money/status
3. charm/personality

You can do fine with really any combination of the three. If your looks are average make more money and work on your personality. If you're a male model but broke and suicidal work on getting a steady job and your personality.

Since men base women solely on looks, they can't do much to improve their sexual value, they can use makeup and heels, but all women do so it's largely relative. Men have the ability to hit the books and get a promotion, buy a nicer car and their value just went up a heap. It's a blessing not a curse.


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## David51 (Sep 12, 2017)

Read about 1/3 of that article and found myself dosing off.......I do know one thing for certain. It much easier to find a new women when you are with an attractive woman. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

That really isn't true. While I may appreciate beautiful examples of the female form as much as the next guy, it isn't *important* to me. Its sort of like looking at a Maserati, its pretty, but I don't really want to own one. The fancy looks just don't matter that much. 

The women I've been attracted to have all be due to a combination of factors. Appearance matters, but it is just one of a lot of different things that all add up to my finding someone appealing.

I do agree that there are some men who do go entirely by appearance - but I think many of them wind up disappointed when they discover that there are a lot of things that make more difference to your happiness, than how pretty your partner is. Sort of like discovering how much time your Maserati spends in the shop and that the cream colored leather seats mean that you can't risk drinking coffee in your car. 


People are welcome to want what they want. It just isn't as universal as you might think.




marriageontherocks2 said:


> snip
> 
> Since men base women solely on looks, they can't do much to improve their sexual value, they can use makeup and heels, but all women do so it's largely relative. Men have the ability to hit the books and get a promotion, buy a nicer car and their value just went up a heap. It's a blessing not a curse.


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## TAM2013 (Jul 15, 2013)

Araucaria said:


> It is called "*Retroactive Jealousy*." Sometimes people get jealous of the sex their spouses had with previous partners years after the fact.


Be careful with this term. There's a big difference between a man feeling irrationally threatened by his wifes ex-husband and finding out too late she's been in a number of gangbangs. Throwing retroactive jealousy in after the old "I didn't tell you because I knew you'd react like this" doesn't go down well when his gut has just relieved himself of the contents of his stomach. 

None of this pointed at the OP's wife of course but you can't blame OP for wondering. I'd call that astute.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

TAM2013 said:


> Be careful with this term. There's a big difference between a man feeling irrationally threatened by his wifes ex-husband and finding out too late she's been in a number of gangbangs. Throwing retroactive jealousy in after the old "I didn't tell you because I knew you'd react like this" doesn't go down well when his gut has just relieved himself of the contents of his stomach.
> 
> None of this pointed at the OP's wife of course but you can't blame OP for wondering. I'd call that astute.


OP didn't say his wife had been in gangbangs. She had a FWB. She also didn't keep it a secret. You're adding your own twist to his story.

25 years into our marriage my own husband became jealous of boyfriends I had before I knew him (and of whom I told him before we were married, because I wanted him to know my entire history...no secrets) I know what retroactive jealousy is about! It lasted for about 6 months and then he got back to his senses. (Mind you he was the one who cheated in our marriage.) I found it bizarre, and that is when I read a thread about it.

OP is having classic retroactive jealousy. In his case, the lack of sexual intimacy with his wife, due to her physical pain is what is bringing it on. They need counseling...to make sure she is actually in pain, and him so he will ease off, and relax until she gets better, or they find a way to work around her pain from intercourse, tiredness, etc. from having two sets of twins.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow, a man comes here for help with a serious problem in his marriage.

His wife has gone through two difficult births with twins, C-section, now has a pain with intercourse. He's suffering emotionally. And you all turn this into a discussion about how women pick men based on shallow standards, whose a 5/5+ and so forth.

We've even had some pretty mean spirited red pill rants on this thread.

Nice way to drive some guy away.

To the OP, I'm sorry that you did not find any real help here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

@Jaystone

If you want some support here, please PM me. I'll be more attentive of a new thread if you want to start one. I've been dealing with family issues and so was not following your thread. I apologize.


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