# I need Love not Submission is it too much to ask



## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

Hello everyone, 


Just wanted to check am I talking childish or you are making some sense with what I am saying. 

I come from South Asia where arrange marriage are still prevalent so some people might not be able to relate to me. So all while I was young (since I was in class 8 or so) there was one girl I really liked never said a word to her all my life but really liked her. I come from a well to do family and as I grew up to become a successful man (Dentist by profession) a lot of women came in my life but this girl I had met in my hometown I could never forget. 

26 year old I visit my hometown after nearly a decade guess what I do visit her old house only to find out they have moved to another town but the girl is working in same city as me. I find her out as I see her for first time in nearly a decade. I am floored as she has turned into one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen in my life. I am a very confident man but this time I don’t have balls to ask her out. So what I do is take help from one of her friends. Who tell me she is single and never ever had a man around her although she gets plenty of men’s attention? 

So finding that I use the conventional approach and reach out to her brother, who at first does not believe why I would be interested in her sister (we have a big social/economical difference between the two of us) but then we talk and after a very-very brief courtship are married. Even while dating she never use to talk much so I thought maybe she is shy and has never been with man so find awkward in expressing her emotions. 

Now we are married for four years and in these four years from the face of it one can say she has been the best wife in the world. She always listens to me. Does everything and anything I ask her to (even to an extent like obeying me) believe me or not we haven’t had a serious argument in last 4 years. She never fights me back; I want my wife to ask me for something (like a favor, an expensive gift, or any dam thing) but her never. Our sex sessions are more like I do the things while she lies down (she has never ever denied me sex, although I always ask do you want it she never said yes or no). I feel embarrassed to say so but sometimes look like I am raping her. 

Above all she when in school she use be very smiley type I haven’t seen laugh ever she has grown up. I even asked about it but she said there is no problem and she is really happy. I thought this is the biggest lie I have heard all my life. 

So today I see her for the first time in my 30 years lifetime come and tell me I am proud of you. You are a big and successful man. I respond to it by telling her that I am the biggest failure I have known in the world who for last four years has been trying to make his wife fall in love with him all while when he himself is hopelessly in love with her. I asked her is there someone in your life to which is said no. I ask her do you hate me for some reason, she tells me why I think so when we are so happy together. 

To this I ask her the most important question has she even for a second in her lifetime felt in love with me. She responds “have I ever denied to anything”, I tell her I got answer to my question but she tells me I making issue out of nothing. 

I want to ask you all a few questions: 

•	Can you ever make a women fall in love with you in her heart. I mean is there something a man can do so his wife behaves life she is my partner not my slave. 
•	How can a woman exist who does not have any needs (physical, materialistic or biological)? I just can’t imagine how much she loathes me so as to never ever share how she feels.
•	Should I leave her maybe this way she can find a better match? It would be the toughest thing in my life to do but if that’s for her good. 
•	Last thing is it to much to ask from a wife to share an intimate moment with me, not sex but maybe a cuddle or even holding hands. 
•	Is there anyone who has ever been in this mess as I cannot live with the indignation that I am spoiling someone’s life someone I love the most in life. 

If someone wants to tell me that we need marriage counseling let me add I know a battery of Physiologist and Physiatrist personally but all of them tell me first she has to acknowledge there is a problem. 

Its an old movie dialogue no one gets hurt by strangers, its only people we love the most hurt us the most. How true.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is a beautiful post. Lets start with you. By any measure you are a great guy. If SHE felt you were "forcing yourself" on her she would not have the respect she does for you, and would not have said what she did. 

There may be some behavioral things you can do which increase the "passion"/lust she feels for you. They will NOT feel natural to you at first, however they may greatly improve your marriage. 

The first part of that is taking her off the pedestal. She wants to be loved by a partner, not worshiped like a Goddess. A woman can't feel passion for a worshiper. And that will be the hardest thing you have ever done. Once you do "that", the rest of the behavioral stuff will be doable. Until you do that, things will remain as they are. 





HurtlikeHell said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> Just wanted to check am I talking childish or you are making some sense with what I am saying.
> ...


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The first part of that is taking her off the pedestal. She wants to be loved by a partner, not worshiped like a Goddess. A woman can't feel passion for a worshiper. And that will be the hardest thing you have ever done. Once you do "that", the rest of the behavioral stuff will be doable. Until you do that, things will remain as they are.


MEM11363, thanks for response but perhaps you did not understand my question. I never treat her like goddess but she treats me like her lord. I have never come at terms with this Indian social mentality “your husband is you’re everything”. 

All I want from my wife is to be herself, be happy, maybe sometimes smile or laugh it doesn’t hurt, share a lighter moment with the idiot who can’t get you off his head, give a man a chance for being a man in your life maybe ask him for some help, how come in four years you have no needs at all. 

I am sure she would be having problems with me, domestic helps, someone else for that matter even with the past. I mean why you can’t share those with me. Don’t be a picture of silent misery atleast if nothing I can give you a lending ear or a shoulder to weep if that makes you feel good. 

But again I know she will never do that. Problem is according to her I am her responsibility (that’s it) a responsibility. She has been literally been programmed to be such and she will never think beyond. 

Yesterday I said to my wife “ I have failed as an husband to keep you happy or to make you fall for me” she responded “ I never complained” and I shouted to her “ you wont complain even if raped or murdered you”. 

Any advice is welcome apart from lone asking me leaving her as this would not something Indian society would accept. Let’s face it we are not an egalitarian society. People will judge her and she will perhaps never be able to find another man in her life. 

As a dentist in my early carrier I have visited jails on police duty and seen people sentenced for life happy in jail. Living with me cannot be worse then that.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Would it be safe to say that from your side this is a "love marriage", whereas from her side this is an "arranged marriage"?


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Has it occurred to you that you are not LISTENING to her? You say she would not complain if you hurt her--maybe she is saying, I haven't complained b/c I don't have any complaints--I am happy, you have fulfilled MY expectations of marriage.

So, for now, it will do more harm than good to "blame" her for having different expectations. If you are unhappy with that, it is up to you to leave for YOUR sake, not hers. If you want a different relationship, you may have to seek it elsewhere. I'm not saying you should give up yet, but definitely back off on the demands that she "love" like you want her to love. You think you are doing it for her sake, but really, you are doing it for your own. That's ok--just be aware that you are making demands that YOU believe will make her happier, but you are doing so b/c it is what YOU want.


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

I know exactly what you speak about...You want the woman within the woman to let herself loose...Be all that she can be...Not hold back, but give of herself...Find this place in herself that is there, but only visited in her mind...I believe she loves you, but has been programmed not to be this part of herself that you want to see...

Question: Does she ever show any sexual joy when you are making love to her?...Does she orgasm?...I believe there is a connection...

I believe from what you say that she has been "programmed" to be this sort of woman...Submissive and to obey her husband...She may have been taught not to show libido...That this is not part of her being...Now add the different in social and economical backgrounds and she is still in awe that a man of your importance would even look at her...I think that she loves you, but she is confused as to what she should be and how she should act...

Have you ever considered showing some Porn to her?...Show her some of the things that a woman can do and how she can act and still be a "lady"....Many of us women are like you speak of....It is called "inhibited"...For many of us it is a sickness that we are born with...Maybe it comes from Eve taking a bite of that darn apple...Either way when we kick it we can be "hell on wheels" or in other words "hot and horny"...

No, I wouldn't give up on her.....I think she is in love with you only can't find the way to open that door to let herself out...Honey, you hold the key....I send you my best wishes....

Threetimesalady


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

sisters359 said:


> Has it occurred to you that you are not LISTENING to her? You say she would not complain if you hurt her--maybe she is saying, I haven't complained b/c I don't have any complaints--I am happy, you have fulfilled MY expectations of marriage.
> 
> So, for now, it will do more harm than good to "blame" her for having different expectations. If you are unhappy with that, it is up to you to leave for YOUR sake, not hers. If you want a different relationship, you may have to seek it elsewhere. I'm not saying you should give up yet, but definitely back off on the demands that she "love" like you want her to love. You think you are doing it for her sake, but really, you are doing it for your own. That's ok--just be aware that you are making demands that YOU believe will make her happier, but you are doing so b/c it is what YOU want.


sisters359,

I am really sorry but I beg to differ, the school of thought I belong to tell me in marriage its not me or her but we. I don’t know you but can guarantee you if your partner is not happy you can never-ever be happy in heart. 

Also maybe I don’t know what love is but let’s try and understand what human beings are. If I tell you my wife would not have smiled or spoken to someone unless been spoken to in last four to five years, is it normal. 

Will you consider it healthy when a woman has not purchased a single cloth for herself in maybe a decade all while she had three credit cards in her name and two chuffers to take her to market, let alone the jerk who would have left a patient bleeding dead if called for this duty. 

Forget about everything else, can you believe it my wife has not visited her very own brother or father in maybe last two years. Will you buy it someone has not left the house maybe 10 times in last four years. 

I am perfectly all right if she doesn’t love me or for that matter hates me for something. But atleast have some expectations from life. 

Then you people ask me to leave her well I would only like to say we curry eating, nerdy desi’s marry only once in life and not for anything leave our wives particularly when she is in total mess. 

I am planning to meet some of her old school friends and room mates to get some more details about her because I cannot give up on her. 



> Would it be safe to say that from your side this is a "love marriage", whereas from her side this is an "arranged marriage"?


I have always maintained ours was an arranged marriage, but I am starting develop doubts whether it was a marriage at all.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

> I have always maintained ours was an arranged marriage, but I am starting develop doubts whether it was a marriage at all.


Don't be fickle LOL or you've gonna get a fickle answer: If it's not a marriage at all, end it.

In your first post you say you hurt because she doesn't love you (or she doesn't love you the way you love her).
Then you say that you hurt because she doesn't seem to have any ambitions for herself. That she doesn't seem to have a life, that she drifts from one day to the other. I suppose she doesn't have a job. Maybe she's depressed?

Did you ever ask her "Do you love me?" "Who would you want to be when you proverbially grow up?" 

What did she say?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's not too much to ask for holding hands/affection in a marriage. She does sound like she is depressed. Have you asked her?
You really should talk to her and tell her how you are feeling.
Was she always this way?


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

reachingshore said:


> In your first post you say you hurt because she doesn't love you (or she doesn't love you the way you love her).
> Then you say that you hurt because she doesn't seem to have any ambitions for herself. That she doesn't seem to have a life, that she drifts from one day to the other. I suppose she doesn't have a job. Maybe she's depressed?


Ok let’s put it this way she never shows any emotion good or bad. She never bothers what colors clothes she is wearing whether they look good on her or not. If I would have not taken her out to buy clothes, shoes or jewelry she would have been wearing clothes which she purchased may be a decade ago. But let me tell you she is very good in taking orders if I tell her wear black it looks good on you next fifteen days she will only wear black clothes. 

I remember I asked her to tell the Gardner to wash my car daily, he did not turn up that day so next day at 5:00 AM in the morning in Januaries chilling cold in New Delhi she herself washed my car. I told her you are my wife not my slave she responded I thought you would not like to sit in a dirty car. 

Yes, she is a housewife but by her own choice I asked her would you like to join something she said she would prefer staying home. I was cool with that.



> Did you ever ask her "Do you love me?" "Who would you want to be when you proverbially grow up?"
> 
> What did she say?


Ha. Ha Read my earlier post. I have perhaps asked the same set of questions in exact same order a zillion times. To all my question I get a great response called “ silence” as If I am talking to walls. Sometimes I push hard then I get “Did I ever complain” “aren’t you happy” 

Last time she said “Did I ever complain” I told her you would not have complained if I raped you or murdered you.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Threetimesalady said:


> I know exactly what you speak about...You want the woman within the woman to let herself loose...Be all that she can be...Not hold back, but give of herself...Find this place in herself that is there, but only visited in her mind...I believe she loves you, but has been programmed not to be this part of herself that you want to see...
> 
> Question: Does she ever show any sexual joy when you are making love to her?...Does she orgasm?...I believe there is a connection...
> 
> ...


I wouldn't show her porn. I don't think porn brings about a loving connection, perhaps she will act on fear that she is not meeting his needs but it won't come from the heart.

I would get some books, some books written by women and Drs about womens desire and discovering their sexuality and enjoying themselves in bed.

I would also insist on counseling. Maybe a psychologist as well.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Read my earlier post. I have perhaps asked the same set of questions in exact same order a zillion times. To all my question I get a great response called “ silence” as If I am talking to walls. Sometimes I push hard then I get “Did I ever complain” “aren’t you happy”
> 
> Last time she said “Did I ever complain” I told her you would not have complained if I raped you or murdered you.



She sounds almost "emotionless" and I can see where this would be very hard to deal with, you need MORE from her, you want to bring her alive, out of her shell .

What are other women like in her culture? Does her mother act like her also? Does she have friends, how does she interact with them? 

She could have a very very laid back temperment by birth, coupled with her beliefs/upbringing on how she is to act towards her husband. 

If she was not happy about this arranged marraige, but feels she can not speak to you (against her beliefs-role as a wife), could be some depression going on also.


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

> Question: Does she ever show any sexual joy when you are making love to her?...Does she orgasm?...I believe there is a connection...
> Threetimesalady


Did I read Orgasm and libido forget it. Ok let me explain our sex life I 100% times initiate. She undoes her clothes and closes her eyes real tight. I move on top in missionary position do my thing. She immediate runs to the bathroom and its over. Once I tried to touch her vagina by my tongue she became so afraid of me that I never tried that again. Sometimes (and only sometimes she gets wet) but otherwise she remain dry. 

As far as porn is concerned I love that but never watch in front of her as I know she would be offended. 



> No, I wouldn't give up on her.....I think she is in love with you only can't find the way to open that door to let herself out...Honey, you hold the key....I send you my best wishes....


Thanks for your wishes. If she has been programmed to be such then I have hardwired not to give up so rest assured I am not giving up. After all it’s been 18 years (I was 12 when fell for her) if am still in love with her now you know how hopeless a case I am.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Ok let’s put it this way she never shows any emotion good or bad. She never bothers what colors clothes she is wearing whether they look good on her or not. If I would have not taken her out to buy clothes, shoes or jewelry she would have been wearing clothes which she purchased may be a decade ago. But let me tell you she is very good in taking orders if I tell her wear black it looks good on you next fifteen days she will only wear black clothes.


The clothes/jewelry thing is not necessarily a bad thing. I also don't much care about it. It's just something that I am not into. Initially my husband used to buy jewelry for me. I was appreciative of the gesture, but I didn't much care for the jewelry itself. I wore it once or twice, and since then it's been kept in a jewelry box. Once my husband believed me (apparently that's odd coming from a woman LOL), he identified what kind of a gift would make me genuinely happy (electronic gadgets, computers etc., if you must know LOL).



> Ha. Ha Read my earlier post. I have perhaps asked the same set of questions in exact same order a zillion times. To all my question I get a great response called “ silence” as If I am talking to walls. Sometimes I push hard then I get “Did I ever complain” “aren’t you happy”
> 
> Last time she said “Did I ever complain” I told her you would not have complained if I raped you or murdered you.


There is this one episode in "Sex and the City". Carrie is in a happy relationship with a guy, but she keeps being stressed. She doesn't know why. She keeps having nightmares, she wakes up and figures something's wrong. Maybe she forgot to pay an important bill or maybe she forgot about a deadline at work. At the end of the episode she realizes what's wrong. What was wrong was that nothing seemed to be wrong in her life for once. That's what was stressing her LOL

I think it's very sweet what your wife did with the car. It was a grand gesture  I hope your negative reaction to that does not come from some sort of an embarrassment what your neighbors would think of you, as a man/husband/provider.

Maybe your wife is not a talker, but she seems to definitely be a doer. Quite frankly if I was her, I wouldn't do what she did for a person I didn't care about.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Did I read Orgasm and libido forget it. Ok let me explain our sex life I 100% times initiate. She undoes her clothes and closes her eyes real tight. I move on top in missionary position do my thing. She immediate runs to the bathroom and its over. Once I tried to touch her vagina by my tongue she became so afraid of me that I never tried that again. Sometimes (and only sometimes she gets wet) but otherwise she remain dry.


This is going to sound funny.. but have you read the Kama Sutra (the actual text)? 

Particularly this bit -> The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana: Part III: About the Acquisition of a Wife: Chaper II. About Creating Confidence In the Girl


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

> What are other women like in her culture? Does her mother act like her also? Does she have friends, how does she interact with them?
> 
> She could have a very very laid back temperment by birth, coupled with her beliefs/upbringing on how she is to act towards her husband.
> 
> If she was not happy about this arranged marraige, but feels she can not speak to you (against her beliefs-role as a wife), could be some depression going on also.


I never saw her mother not even when I use to follow her from school to her house daily on my bicycle. I think her mother died when she was fairly young. As for her friends are concerned I know almost all of them from school none of them is as cold and distant as her. I am planning to meet all her school friends I can because something has defiantly changed from then. I have a colleague in the hospital who is a physiatrist who will help me. I am trying to dig more will definatly revert with more info.


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

> The clothes/jewelry thing is not necessarily a bad thing. I also don't much care about it. It's just something that I am not into. Initially my husband used to buy jewelry for me. I was appreciative of the gesture, but I didn't much care for the jewelry itself. I wore it once or twice, and since then it's been kept in a jewelry box. Once my husband believed me (apparently that's odd coming from a woman LOL), he identified what kind of a gift would make me genuinely happy (electronic gadgets, computers etc., if you must know LOL).


Lady then let the chap know what you want. I mean he wants to burn money on his wife. I bet he doesn’t care what the hell it is. It’s a manly thing we all need someone to burn money on. 

My Director at hospital just purchased a US $8000.00 worth painting. I asked is it worth it. He responded I have purchased a smile on a face and it was worth it.



> I think it's very sweet what your wife did with the car. It was a grand gesture  I hope your negative reaction to that does not come from some sort of an embarrassment what your neighbors would think of you, as a man/husband/provider.
> 
> Maybe your wife is not a talker, but she seems to definitely be a doer. Quite frankly if I was her, I wouldn't do what she did for a person I didn't care about.


My neighbors know a hell lot about me then I would anyways like them to know so who the hell cares if they saw do that as well. You can’t score lower then zero 

As per my wife is concerned If you convinced her that it would be good for me if she jumps out of the window she would not think a second. My problem is no one is ever able to convince her that if the slave herself stays happy it would do a world of good to her so called master.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

He doesn't care what the hell it is?? Darn, now you broke my heart :'(

Then convince your wife that it would be good for you if she started loving you and showing you that she loves you. I am not teasing you or trying to piss you off. I realize convincing her of that is going to be hard. I feel for you. My husband on the other hand envies you the submission part LOL


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

HlH,
OK - I get why this drives you crazy. Her answers to your questions about feelings are either silence or a question regarding whether or not she submits to your every request. 

Her "sexual" response to you would make any man hurt and angry. If you don't mind I want to touch on that a bit. There is a giant difference between intercourse with little to no foreplay and oral sex. Have you ever just given each other a gentle full body massage before sex? How does she respond if you use your hands to get her in the mood? 

What would she say if you softly (not angrily) told her that you insist she tell you what feels nice and what feels not so nice when you kiss her and touch her? 

My W and I play this game during massage/foreplay. The game is called "better 1/better 2". Your partner touches you in a certain way and they say "better 1" and then they vary the touch a little and ask "better 2". And you have to choose. In this way you keep trying different things and you quickly learn what feels best for your partner. Like an optometrist does fitting an eyeglass prescription. 




HurtlikeHell said:


> Lady then let the chap know what you want. I mean he wants to burn money on his wife. I bet he doesn’t care what the hell it is. It’s a manly thing we all need someone to burn money on.
> 
> My Director at hospital just purchased a US $8000.00 worth painting. I asked is it worth it. He responded I have purchased a smile on a face and it was worth it.
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Hurtlikehell,

Your wife and I come from similar background, not the same, but similar. 

To me, she is being a wonderful wife, she loves you a lot, and you are here complaining, that really disappoints me. 

You are successful, you provide her what she needs, she has a secure life, if you are faithful to her, that's all she wants and needs. And she is doing her best to please you. 

If you find such a wife boring, then be more seductive, buy her romance books for her to read, I believe you want a seductive and challenging wife, but to a certain level. Believe me, submissive and strong willed are two opposite personalities, they rarely come together. 

Since she loves you so much and does whatever you tell her to do, you can really lead your sexual life, from now on, please, YOU, go and learn and become a seductive man, take her hand while you are walking together, grope her while she is sitting somewhere, pull her into your arm and give her a tender kiss, stoke her body up and down gently, explore her body, explore her soul, explore your love life.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

If you do anything to hurt her, I will be hurt like hell!

By the way, I am from China. The kind of attitude we have towards men is similar!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Will you consider it healthy when a woman has not purchased a single cloth for herself in maybe a decade all while she had three credit cards in her name and two chuffers to take her to market, let alone the jerk who would have left a patient bleeding dead if called for this duty.


Then, please, you take her to clothing stores and buy her beautiful sarri! Don't forget about lingerie shopping either! Buy her sexy lingerie! And buy her different colors. 

Then tell her she looks great with all those different kind of beautiful sarri, ask her to seduce you and you go seduce her! Ask her to put on beautiful lingerie at night when you have sex! Your wife needs your compliment and encouragement!

And not every woman is materialistic, you have someone so wonderful here and you tell us you want a materialistic woman, it pains me!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> I remember I asked her to tell the Gardner to wash my car daily, he did not turn up that day so next day at 5:00 AM in the morning in Januaries chilling cold in New Delhi she herself washed my car. I told her you are my wife not my slave she responded I thought you would not like to sit in a dirty car.


She is trying so hard to please you, do you see it? 

OK, you don't want a slave girl, but she isn't. She did it because it was inconvenient that day, and she didn't want you to go out in a dirty car. 

If you don't see her love here, again, it pains me, I want to yell at you. TAM doesn't allow swearing or being rude. 

If you don't want her to be a slave, then just don't treat her like a slave. I believe you treat her very well!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

For sex, you have to be a seductive man. Tell her to moan, better show her some foreign porn and ask her to learn from them, tell her to tell you when you are doing something right. 

Don't complain about her if you are not being seductive. 

Her body is there, and she lets you explore. 

Look for her sensitive part, play with her, play with her nipple, play with her clit, spank and grope her ass, just explore, and see her reaction. 

Again don't complain about her if you don't know how to be a seductive man!

Again, don't do anything to hurt her. You are her husband, she is your wife, she doesn't want you to hurt her. I don't want you to hurt her. Love her and guide her in your sex life. She needs your guidance.


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Hmm... Love Languages maybe? 

The 5 Love Languages | Five Love Languages

My love language is a combination of Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation. So for my husband to show me he loves me, he should do Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation.

My husband's love language (I think, he never did the test) is the combination of Quality Time and Acts of Service. I show him I love him by listening to what he says (and he jabbers A LOT, just about anything - sometimes listening to him is a strenuous exercise in patience for me LOL) and doing small things for him.

Actually, HurtlikeHell, do the test on that page, and then show her the page itself. Perfect tool to "convince" her that this is what she should be doing to make you happy  Ask her to do the test also - maybe you'll find out something about her you had no clue about!


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Did I read Orgasm and libido forget it. Ok let me explain our sex life I 100% times initiate. She undoes her clothes and closes her eyes real tight. I move on top in missionary position do my thing. She immediate runs to the bathroom and its over. Once I tried to touch her vagina by my tongue she became so afraid of me that I never tried that again. Sometimes (and only sometimes she gets wet) but otherwise she remain dry.
> 
> As far as porn is concerned I love that but never watch in front of her as I know she would be offended.
> 
> ...


You have one life...Don't waste it...If I acted like that with my new sailor husband he would have been long gone...If she is not willing to give of herself and love you for being you, then she is not worth waiting for...You fell in love with a face...I guess more than anything that you should have gotten to know what was beyond that face and what was in her heart...Your libidos are not the same...To me, without this extra, a marriage will be doomed...Instead pick out a loving woman and look beyond her face...It's what is in her heart that is important.....

I wish you well...Take care...TTAL...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Threetimesalady said:


> You have one life...Don't waste it...If I acted like that with my new sailor husband he would have been long gone...If she is not willing to give of herself and love you for being you, then she is not worth waiting for...You fell in love with a face...I guess more than anything that you should have gotten to know what was beyond that face and what was in her heart...Your libidos are not the same...To me, without this extra, a marriage will be doomed...Instead pick out a loving woman and look beyond her face...It's what is in her heart that is important.....
> 
> I wish you well...Take care...TTAL...


I am really disappointed at your post! 

This is a different culture!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Hurt,

You come from a better class, you wife doesn't. I guess she comes from a very humble background. 

She is in awe that you actually marry her and give her a better life. I believe she is intimidated by your status. Only you can help her out grow it. 

Be more encouraging, and just tell her what kind of woman you want her to be. I believe she will do her best to be the woman you want her to be.


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

Syrum said:


> I wouldn't show her porn. I don't think porn brings about a loving connection, perhaps she will act on fear that she is not meeting his needs but it won't come from the heart.
> 
> I would get some books, some books written by women and Drs about womens desire and discovering their sexuality and enjoying themselves in bed.
> 
> I would also insist on counseling. Maybe a psychologist as well.


I hate to tell you but, both doctors and some psychologists do suggest this...I know of one that even introduced this to his female client in the office...I was shocked...However, I see nothing wrong with a husband showing his wife what real women do in sexual heat...I think it would be good for her...I would not suggest a Psychologist...It is far too personal...If he did I would suggest a very good female who is gifted in the knowledge of life and has a great repoir...I would also suggest the tastefully illustrated book "Satisfaction" by Kim Catrall...This is a great book and I was impressed when I read it...I saw her on Oprah about five years ago...

As for me I don't like Porn...I think it ruins men and makes some wives a slave to their wants...I am not even talking about the Erectile Dysfunction that is attributed to this money making venture...However, it also can be a heck of a turn on for a woman that needs this to help her find the woman within herself......TTAL...


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> I am really disappointed at your post!
> 
> This is a different culture!


My problem being that I just came back on and read the posts...I came on to see the age difference...Still haven't found out on this...If she is younger and he is 30, this has it's own problems...That being how can she escape from this hallowed ground of innocence to be all that she should be to her husband?...Is this possible?...There has to be love and passion to make sexual mating good?....These are the things I worry about and I haven't even read all the posts yet...I spoke out of turn...Lesson learned...Yet, if she can't make the grade and be a passionate wife like he wants, then who will be made more miserable?....He or she?...For us sexual intimacy is in a league all it's own....I can say without hesitation that if this was my husband and I acted like this that he would have left me...He is a passionate man and too many women wanted him...Different culture, but she must change...Now I will read the rest of the posts...


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Did I read Orgasm and libido forget it. Ok let me explain our sex life I 100% times initiate. She undoes her clothes and closes her eyes real tight. I move on top in missionary position do my thing. She immediate runs to the bathroom and its over. Once I tried to touch her vagina by my tongue she became so afraid of me that I never tried that again. Sometimes (and only sometimes she gets wet) but otherwise she remain dry.
> 
> As far as porn is concerned I love that but never watch in front of her as I know she would be offended.
> 
> ...


Green Pearl, I based my answer about leaving her on this post..This was the only one I read... I still question the age difference and whether the fact that this girl had no Mother, nor no instructions in life has a lot to do with her problems...


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

> You fell in love with a face...I guess more than anything that you should have gotten to know what was beyond that face and what was in her heart...Your libidos are not the same...To me, without this extra, a marriage will be doomed...Instead pick out a loving woman and look beyond her face...It's what is in her heart that is important.....


Five years back yes maybe I would have agreed to you but today forget it. Initially we all fall for a face (don’t know about woman but men work that way only). But please realize we have been married for four years. 

I don’t know you heard this term called “devoted wife” well she is one and if someone is lucky to have one you do not give up on them. I agree is my failure that I could not turn her into a loving wife but I have not lost hope.

And just for your info we are about the same age. She is about four months older then me.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

H I read through your story and you mentioned that she was a different class than you. Would that be a different cast, a cast lower than yours? Would she feel inferior to you or that she does not deserve someone like you? How does she fit into your socoial set? If she met with your collegues and their wives would she be at ease speaking to them would theu=y accept her in view of the fact that she is not the same class.

Ypu have had a very good education, did she complete higher education? What does she do all day in the house when you are not there? 

Does she feel reluctant to go out because she feels that she does not fit the mould of a person of privilege and would not be treated with respect by shop keepers? 

I am not clear on her family and background and how she grew up. You mentioned that you think her mother died when she was young, who looked after her? How much do you know of the details of her background. 

I may be wrong but it sounds like you don't know her well enough to figure out what makes her tick. It is interesting that she had not married before she met you again. 

Isn't that unusual, wouldn't she have married quite young in your culture, why was she not married or have any marital prospects. You said she was beautiful, wouldn't that have attracted men? Is their any possibility that she was abused sexually - was she touched - made to do things to a man short of intercourse? 

There are many missing pieces. I think the answers you are getting are not culturally right for you. However, human nature is the same all over the would. We all need love in our formative years, bad experiences shape out adult lives, cultural prejudices affect our level of comfort, feelings of inferiority due to differences in culture and education are difficult to overcome.

I want to caution you about asking her friends about her lest it embarrass her that her husband reveals problems to her friends. Ids there another way, can you go and visit her brother and other siblings and try to become friends with him and get him to trust you to tell things about their childhood?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Any kids yet? If not why?

I really think the admonitions to leave her are wrong, that's my opinion. There is too much left for you to try. You are looking for ways to make this work and you love her, what could be better. 

You are looking answers to make your way. You will find them, keep your resolve and energy in that direction. Western society gives up on relationship very quickly, even good ones. When there is a hint of trouble, we always think that we deserve better and the pool of people are endless. 

We, many of us, seem to be in an endless search for what we think we deserve when we have what we deserve right at hand. Our society does not support long-term relationships or fidelity. We give lip service but, our actions put a lie to our words. So, you are doing the most functional and healthily thing and your are a shinning example to westerners about how to stay the course and not flit around after the ring that is just out of reach.

Teach brother. :smnotworthy:


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

> To me, she is being a wonderful wife, she loves you a lot, and you are here complaining, that really disappoints me.


Who says she is not a wonderful wife, all I am saying just be as sensitive to your own needs as to your husband's and most importantly maybe sometimes smile look happy if you are happy. 



> You are successful, you provide her what she needs, she has a secure life, if you are faithful to her, that's all she wants and needs. And she is doing her best to please you.


Please don’t please me. I am not God who will remove all misery from your life if pleased and what need are talking about here she doesn’t buy anything for herself. I took her out to some good restaurants and forced her to choose what she would like to have. answer I got was silence. 



> Since she loves you so much and does whatever you tell her to do, you can really lead your sexual life, from now on, please, YOU, go and learn and become a seductive man, take her hand while you are walking together, grope her while she is sitting somewhere, pull her into your arm and give her a tender kiss, stoke her body up and down gently, explore her body, explore her soul, explore your love life.


Four years married but if I touch her she starts literally shivering. I once forced her to watch a movie sitting in my lap while I grouped her. All the time the girl was frightened like I was about to eat her. I asked her am I allowed to touch you she tells me "did I say no".


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## Threetimesalady (Dec 22, 2010)

hurtlikehell said:


> five years back yes maybe i would have agreed to you but today forget it. Initially we all fall for a face (don’t know about woman but men work that way only). But please realize we have been married for four years.
> 
> (TTAL)I wish i knew how to do all the box things that you guys do, but I don't....I fell in love with a person, face and personality...This is the person I grew to know and love before our marriage...Our sexual wants were the same..We never had full sexual intercourse, but we were hot...You did not do this...Now I wonder if she is a woman that does not enjoy sex...If this is true then she would not be alone..This plagues many women...They tolerate this act of infrigment on their body and breathe easily when it is done...It is a simple fact of life...This alone is why after Menopause, many escape to this place of no more sex...Separate bedrooms if they have to and are sick of the invasion into their body....now that I know that she is older than you, I find I question this more than ever...To me her actions indicate a more than a fear of sex, but by her cleaning up afterwards, more of a distaste for it...
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Please don’t please me. I am not God who will remove all misery from your life if pleased and what need are talking about here she doesn’t buy anything for herself. I took her out to some good restaurants and forced her to choose what she would like to have. answer I got was silence.
> 
> She is scared of you! She doesn't dare to show her true side in front of you. Give her a man who is from her own class, I am sure she will be *****y and bossy!
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Five years back yes maybe I would have agreed to you but today forget it. Initially we all fall for a face (don’t know about woman but men work that way only). But please realize we have been married for four years.
> 
> I don’t know you heard this term called “devoted wife” well she is one and if someone is lucky to have one you do not give up on them. I agree is my failure that I could not turn her into a loving wife but I have not lost hope.
> 
> And just for your info we are about the same age. She is about four months older then me.


Hurt,

I am a devoted wife too. I let my husband pick out my clothes and lingerie, I buy and cook what he likes to eat. He views all of this my love and he really cherishes it. If he tells me I look great on a pair of jeans, I remember to wear them often. If you want variety, just tell your wife, she will try very hard to meet the way you like. 

The only difference is I am bold too. I guess that's what you want from her. 

My husband's compliment and encouragement really helped me gain my confidence. He has made a wife he wants! 

Please, you have the same opportunity, you have a chance to make a wife you want. Be more gentle, be more encouraging.


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

> H I read through your story and you mentioned that she was a different class than you. Would that be a different cast, a cast lower than yours? Would she feel inferior to you or that she does not deserve someone like you?


Yes, I agree we two are separated by a social valley of Cast, social status and of course economic background. India is country of great financial disparity and I would not be wrong to say that her husband current monthly income is more then 10X her father and brothers annual income. But Hindu religion in which she believes perhaps I do as well states that woman has no caste as her caste and social status is same her husband’s. So by that logic today she & me are on same footing. 



> How does she fit into your socoial set? If she met with your collegues and their wives would she be at ease speaking to them would theu=y accept her in view of the fact that she is not the same class.


She hardly meets anyone, when guest come to our house she conveniently forgets she is my wife and becomes a domestic help. Never talks to my colleague’s wives and a lot of my friends find it odd. Some even think I am too controlling and she is behaving because I want her to. I could never convince them I would never want to do such an idiotic thing. 
Ypu have had a very good education, did she complete higher education? What does she do all day in the house when you are not there? 



> Does she feel reluctant to go out because she feels that she does not fit the mould of a person of privilege and would not be treated with respect by shop keepers?


No one knows her in New Delhi and why would a business care who you are provided you have money in pocket. She has been with me in India and abroad been to malls, hotels enough number times to realize that its all about money honey. 



> I am not clear on her family and background and how she grew up. You mentioned that you think her mother died when she was young, who looked after her? How much do you know of the details of her background.


Well she grew up in my hometown Ghaziabad studied till 12 there; her mother died young was taken care by her brother and father. Till 10th I was there as well all the boys wanted to hit on her but she never gave us a second glance. She completed her graduation from SD College in Psychology and then left for Bangalore to find work. This is the place I met her prior to our marriage. 



> I may be wrong but it sounds like you don't know her well enough to figure out what makes her tick. It is interesting that she had not married before she met you again.


Very good question I don’t know the answer of. The same question has been asked to me by a fellow colleague. Given the fact that half the men in Ghaziabad were dying for a second glance I cannot imagine how and why she remained unmarried till 26. I use to fantasize about her in college (this was something I told her the night we got married and she honestly didn’t like sound of it.).But I am going to dig more and get back. 


> Is their any possibility that she was abused sexually - was she touched - made to do things to a man short of intercourse?
> 
> There are many missing pieces. I think the answers you are getting are not culturally right for you. However, human nature is the same all over the would. We all need love in our formative years, bad experiences shape out adult lives, cultural prejudices affect our level of comfort, feelings of inferiority due to differences in culture and education are difficult to overcome.
> 
> I want to caution you about asking her friends about her lest it embarrass her that her husband reveals problems to her friends. Ids there another way, can you go and visit her brother and other siblings and try to become friends with him and get him to trust you to tell things about their childhood?


You know what, I love you for this question, there is certainly some history here I don’t know of. I know she will never tell me anything (Virginity and chastity issues are big problem here). She literally hates anything and everything to do with sex including caressing or kissing. I don’t know is it due to the fact that I wasn’t a virgin when I married her or is there an abuse history? Even if we are watching a movie and an intimate scene comes she will close her eyes. 

You would laugh when I tell you last time I kissed her passionately next thing she did was brush her teeth, guess who is dentist here. Jokes apart I am working with her friends and room mates in Bangalore to get greater information because she will never tell me there is a problem. I don’t care if she feels hurt that I spied on her because I want to know the root of the problem.Will revert when I know more. 

As far as kids are concerned I am one here to be blamed. I am only son of my parents and they want a grand child desperately. My wife listen to my mother so she wants it as well (she never told me, but I know). My problem is I am not comfortable with the fact that my child has an emotionally unavailable mother. I am not yet sure how will she behave with the child. Infact I never mentioned but this certainly is the impetus behind my search for truth.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Something horrible crossed my mind. I hope it didn't happen to her. 

You mentioned that her mother died when she was young, and she grew up with her father and brother. 

Was she a virgin the first time you had sex with her? If not, something horrible must have happened when she was young.


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> Something horrible crossed my mind. I hope it didn't happen to her.
> 
> You mentioned that her mother died when she was young, and she grew up with her father and brother.
> 
> Was she a virgin the first time you had sex with her? If not, something horrible must have happened when she was young.


You know what I have some feelings which I would hate to type. But then again if something such ever happened who is the best person to share your pain with. Who else would have time, emotional attachment and above all the love to take your side in everything good, bad or ugly? 
If morality is the question she already knows I had multiple girls in my life prior to her. I was sleeping around at the drop of a hat in college so I better never question her past. 

We had a very brief courtship (if I may call it) but I clearly remember to have told her that I don’t care about her past and came clean about mine.

It’s an old Indian Joke “Virginity is neither purity nor security but lack of opportunity”. 


As per the virginity question is concerned how you know. If I remember it correctly she bled not first but second time we had intercourse. Bur let me tell you Hymen has no relation to virginity, you can break it while masturbating, using a tampon. Some girls are even born without one. . 

Also for Rs 25000(USD $500) in India I can get a mother of five re-virginzed we call it hymenoplasty.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Hurt,

I would rather not think towards that direction. As long as you don't mind her past, I don't think that's a problem! 

Hurt, please tell me, 

Are you gentle? 

Do you look frightening? 

Is your voice harsh? 

Women like her are usually scared of macho men! They don't dare to open up!


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

I reiterate: read The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> I reiterate: read The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana


Reaching,

I bought a book about that! 

Those men really know how to entertain themselves, don't they! 

There was one picture stuck in my mind, a man was having sex with six women. He was using his hands, his feet, his mouth and his toy! What an interesting picture. 

Hurt, sorry about the derail! I am not encouraging you to be unfaithful! I hate men who are unfaithful! Reaching and I are friends!


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Heee... I have a coffee table edition with pictures LOL

Anyway, I always thought that the Kama Sutra was all about positions and all that. How wrong! The text actually speaks of e.g. how to seduce a virgin wife, of non-sexually oriented courtship period, of how a man should give and help his wife gain (sexual) confidence.


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> Hurt,
> 
> I would rather not think towards that direction.
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> Heee... I have a coffee table edition with pictures LOL
> 
> Anyway, I always thought that the Kama Sutra was all about positions and all that. How wrong! The text actually speaks of e.g. how to seduce a virgin wife, of non-sexually oriented courtship period, of how a man should give his wife (sexual) confidence.


We all need to be educated! 

I remember when I met my husband, I didn't know much except the basic stuff. 

But then I let him take the lead, and we started exploring sex, we bought quite a few sex books, it was a lot of fun reading those books. I could get horny just by looking at those pictures! 

Hurt, will your wife read sex books you buy for her? 

Us women usually let our men lead in our sex life!


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> once I got pissed off an told her to tell me I love you too. Ever since that day I get a recorded answer back "I love you too" with no emotions.


**sigh** You gotta make her unlearn what you unwittingly taught her.

Again, I reiterate...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> greenpearl said:
> 
> 
> > Hurt,
> ...


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

greenpearl said:


> HurtlikeHell said:
> 
> 
> > Hurt,
> ...


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

I've been to Khajuraho. I am European, but my husband's parents are Delhiites. 

Who knows - we might actually meet in New Delhi sometime


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> greenpearl said:
> 
> 
> > Ladies I am a decent guy, No I don’t grow beard. I am clean shaven north Indian (read fair complexioned, if that matters). When I say I was sleeping around left, right and center till the age of 26 so I guess women liked me. Not sure what she doesn’t.
> ...


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## CktBridge (Jan 11, 2011)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Did I read Orgasm and libido forget it. Ok let me explain our sex life I 100% times initiate. She undoes her clothes and closes her eyes real tight. I move on top in missionary position do my thing. She immediate runs to the bathroom and its over. Once I tried to touch her vagina by my tongue she became so afraid of me that I never tried that again. Sometimes (and only sometimes she gets wet) but otherwise she remain dry.
> 
> As far as porn is concerned I love that but never watch in front of her as I know she would be offended.
> 
> ...





greenpearl said:


> Something horrible crossed my mind. I hope it didn't happen to her.
> 
> You mentioned that her mother died when she was young, and she grew up with her father and brother.
> 
> Was she a virgin the first time you had sex with her? If not, something horrible must have happened when she was young.



I have always been a good listener and tried to help people that worked for me and in the family. A lot of the issues you are describing sound very similar to things I have discussed with other people. I have traveled around the world a good amount and from a “stranger looking in” I am also familiar with some of the cultural issues. 

I know you have hinted at this in some of the other prior posts but to be blunt it sounds like either a lot of mental/sexual abuse at an early age or a case of someone with some mental issues “OCD???” . I would guess the mental/sexual abuse. I did have a male friend that would have to run and wash his genitals immediately after sex due to I believe it was part of his OCD. 

Things that came out of my friends counseling sessions would be like this....

1. Wife was afraid to make their own decisions / worried about things that would upset spouse 
(Your wife wearing black for days on end after you suggested it[above and beyond the normal cultural issue.])(once I got pissed off an told her to tell me I love you too. Ever since that day I get a recorded answer back "I love you too" with no emotions.)
2. Wife would avoid certain people when able to.(Not seeing her family in years)
3. Wife afraid of anything sexual or being touched in general.(lots of things match that in your posts). Especially anything new sexually.
a. Also they would eventually tell the counselor these things and hide them as much as possible from the world in general but especially from anyone they cared about since they were ashamed and blamed themselves a lot.
b. One of my friends said his wife was more of a robot after they got married and started having sex and then suddenly out of the blue would be like a wild animal caught in the headlights of a car(trembling and totally afraid). He was never sure how he triggered the change.
4. Wife was afraid that the spouse would be upset by even the smallest things and would go out of their way to avoid problems(like wife washing your car just in case a dirty car would upset you or doing only what you say because you might not like their decision).
5. Wife was afraid to ask for anything extra or special in marriage since that might come with strings attached from whomever abused her in the past. 
6. Wife not wanting to leave the security of her own home. Not to mention not wanting to upset the status quo of what is making her feel safe.(hence not join any groups or having friends.)

I wish I had more time to expound further on why this came to my mind. I really hope that this is not the problem. Reading all of this thread just made all the past discussions I hadn't thought about in years pop into my head. I can try to find some of the titles of the books that some of them read also if you are interested but the Internet has lots of info also I am sure.

Most of my friends with a bunch of work, going slow, being patient and with a lot of counseling worked the issues out to their satisfaction.

Good Luck.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Ck,

I think you have pointed out the problem clearly and explained it very well. 

I had no experience about this kind of thing, and I didn't want Hurt's wife to get hurt again. 

I hope Hurt and his wife work out their problem. 

When we were young, we were victims of our environment. And this damage can hurt us forever if we don't get the demon in control!


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am using deductive powers here - she was alone, a women in a house with men. How was she treated? She a woman, she served and was not valued. I also strongly suspect she was abused sexually. I hate to make accusations but if I speculate and insult please forgive me. 

She was valued for what she could do, she became the woman of the house, a servant, learned to see herself as a sevent. They may have told her she was worth nothing, and they may have used her to give them sexual pleasure. The was she closes her eyes she is leaving her body like she did when she was abused she had no hope of anyone rescuing her. My guess only based on your description of her reaction to sex. She was made to feel responsible for the way she was used and she was likely told she was dirty. That's the way sexual abusers push the guilt onto the victim. It may have been the father and brother. If so, I hope they burn in hell. If she attracts male attension then she may have attracted theirs.

I said outrageous things but you think and see. If you expect her to just tell you, you don't understand the nature of sexual abuse she will never tell you. She may see you and sex with you like her abusers if indeed she has been abused. 

Beauty is a curse not a gift it brings trouble unless you are very lucky and have protectors. She does not talk to brother why - did he abuse her? 

She has a lot of pain and may just be existing closed in herself trying to be good. God help her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

OK people.. This is pure conjecture. Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill... without even a shadow of an actual mole.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

reachingshore said:


> OK people.. This is pure conjecture. Let's not make a mountain out of a mole hill... without even a shadow of an actual mole.


Reaching, 

I would rather all of us are wrong! 

And I don't understand Indian women very well! 

But I do think the reaction she has towards her husband is not normal!


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## reachingshore (Jun 10, 2010)

Ahhhhhh.... Errrrr.... Yyyyyyyyyy...

Oh [email protected] I was trying to avoid speaking this plainly.. Sorry, Hurt, if it seems harsh.. It's not meant to be that 




> She undoes her clothes and closes her eyes real tight. I move on top in missionary position *do my thing*. She immediate runs to the bathroom and its over. Once I tried to touch her vagina by my tongue she became so afraid of me that I never tried that again. *Sometimes (and only sometimes she gets wet) but otherwise she remain dry*.


There are much much bigger chances she wasn't taught how to enjoy sex than the chances of her actually being sexually abused.

Hurt, other women did enjoy it because they were already initiated, they learned how to enjoy it from other men, from other experiences. 

You think she doesn't love you. You think she didn't love you when you married. You've loved her from the start and you were soo excited to finally have her that you may have kinda sorta overlooked that.

Draw on your culture and play mind games with her, flirt with her, excite her, stimulate her.. in order to make her fall in love with you. Instead of that, what you seem to have been doing is thinking she will start loving you with time.. and when that time doesn't seem to come.. instead of doing all that Vatsyayana said so many centuries ago.. you get angry and order her to tell you that she loves you. And she does do what you tell her to do - culture and upbringing tell her to do that.

Read the forum and you will see that once people love each other.. that isn't the end of the game.. People have to work on keeping their love alive for the rest of their lives. Flirt with each other for the rest of their lives.. excite each other for the rest of their lives..

Your wife has only you to teach her all that. You've got to learn too. Do right by her.


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## nala21 (Apr 7, 2011)

Hurt,

I can feel the pain and caring in your words. In a way, I know how you feel a bit. My H is not as "robotic" but he is similar with his lack of affections. What I have found to be true is that most people who have these types of "reactions" have had some form of trauma in their lives. Either verbal, sexual, physical, and/or emotional abuse. It could range from mild abuse (if there is such a thing) to very severe. It could be the fact that their family never showed love to them or could have been treated extremely bad. What I'm trying to say is that there is a reason why she behaves the way she does. Most likely you are not the cause. I suspect it started way before you. It's probably so deep she has no idea what it is. I know for me, as a woman, my ideas of what kind of woman I should be was shaped early on in my life through the people around me. I learned from my mom that a man will never truly love you. You must always suspect. You must always guard yourself. I have been chasing the phantom approval that I desperately feel I don't get. I suspect because I did not have a male figure (father) in my early years who loved me unconditionally. These things haunt a person their whole lives. In order for things to get better, it truly has to come from her growing herself: her selfl-esteem, her idea of who she should be, her idea of marriage/sex/love, etc. There needs to be a tremendous amount of therapy/help so that she can get to the place where she needs to be, before she can love you the way you need her to love you. I know this isn't the quick fix answer we all wish for. Believe me, I know it's not easy when you desperately want your spouse to love you the way you love them. It's emotionally suffocating when you are married to someone who is so close yet so far away. Stay strong. Find a support system. Keep loving her. Maybe if you suggest Marriage counseling for the both of you, but in different sessions? It doesn't matter if you feel like she is doing it out of "obedience" to you. Anything that will get her in front of a neutral, professional support person will be beneficial.


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

Dear Moderators,


Please keep this post permanently and highlighted for other in similar situation to refer to and take necessary actions in their own life.

I am writing this to all of you so that you may know some grim realties of life. You all tried to help me out through the thick and thin of things thanks for that. So after a weeks research, meeting my wife’s ex-school friends, her room mate in Bangalore and help from a fellow doctor at hospital I am able to find out something my wife always wanted to tell me from her actions and reactions but never had courage to tell me. 

For the first time in my life I saw her crying like a baby but you know what It was the most pleasant experience of my lifetime. She would have cried all night if I would not have given her an anti-depressant and do you know where she slept, right on my shoulder. I perhaps did not sleep all that night. 

My heart came to my mouth when in the morning she did not let me go to the washroom until I promised I will not judge her on her past. So for the first time in my life she finally asked me for something and how could I have denied. I never really get it, how I convince her that her husband’s past leave him in no position to be a judge on morality. 

So here is what I found out, from her friends in school we both studied that she was fun till class 10th but suddenly became quite and quieter over period of time. I reached to her room mate in Bangalore who originally gave me traces about her (when I was searching for her five years back). She knew a lot but never wanted to discuss to her ex-room mates husband, but after much effort she gave in and I was able to find out that she (my wife) came to Bangalore to be away from her farther and brother. Her friend also told me the place she was working, owner of that place had special interest in her and wanted her to work late hours. 

I spoke to a fellow doctor who happens to be a physiatrist and we were able to join the dots. My wife was being sexually used by her own brother and father ever since her mother passed away. She took the job in Bangalore to run away from them after years of exploitation only to find herself in company of drooling men giving her extra attention. 

When I wanted to marry her I lured her brother into a business prospect for him (something I am ashamed of myself for) and they literally forced her to marry me. 

My wife’s behavior and mannerism were exactly similar to person in Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. She always felt used, dirty, unclean, unwanted and that is why never shows any emotion or wanted anything in her life. On consultation of my physiatrist colleague I tired to ask her about her past and this is how I came to know the complete story. 

My biggest problem today is that my wife still feels guilty for everything that happened to her. I have arranged for few sessions for her with the physiatrist and physiologists who deals in such cases. She has also promised me she’ll attend them provided I accompany her. A duty this chauffeur cannot deny. 

Guys, I have only one suggestion for you all. If you face similar situation please don’t waste four precious years of your life like me and do action right now. If your wife is not interested in visiting a physiatrist you can visit on her behalf or coax her into visiting one. 

I know road is still tough but atleast now I have a hope and let me tell you all I can safely say today that my wife loves me. I was really embarrassed to know that she knew all the way that made a business pact with her brother (I feel dizzy what she would have thought of me when she married me, a man who buys woman that too from her abuser). I am ashamed of myself for not tiring to address these issues four years back. 

I am almost 31 years first time my life my wife asked me an emotional question, do I still love her. I am a man generally supposed to be strong but I answered it and ran to washroom because I never wanted her to see me do something men are not supposed to do. Back from washroom I ask her the same question and this time I get a nod. Needless to say I could not go hospital today. I type this as she comes to the bedroom asking another question “can WE go temple today”. 

Dear God, I have never been your fan all my life but thank you for this wonderful day. 

I really-really thank you all the ladies who tried to help me out. I was not able to find the answers to the question but you all pointed me in the right direction.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Hurt,

I am crying................................

But I am still happy for your wife because now she has a strong protector, you have taken her away from the pain. 

Promise me that you will always protect her and guard her, promise me that you will always be there for her, promise me that you will never hurt her, promise me that from now on she will only have smiles no sadness. 

Never talk about her past anymore, never let her have any contact with her past. She has deep shame with her, the only way we can erase the shame is by not letting her see anybody appeared in her past. 

It will still haunt her for sometime, but your guaranteed love will heal her and she will be happy again one day! I promise!


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## CktBridge (Jan 11, 2011)

HurtlikeHell said:


> I really-really thank you all the ladies who tried to help me out. I was not able to find the answers to the question but you all pointed me in the right direction.


Actually I am a guy... . Sorry I was right but I am glad it seems to be going in the right direction....


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

Dear Greenpearl,

I truly appreciate your genuine concern however, 
I live with someone whom you can't hate even if that’s what you want to do. How I wish these questions were asked by her. To me she never talks anything about past and I never bring it up. As far as her guilt is concerned I not sure how can I help but something on advice of my friend and his wife(physiatrist married to a psychologist) I have started ensuring we spend more time together doing simple things, like watching a movie, playing pool, or for that matter even taking her out for shopping. 

Another thing she hates and I have been literally ordered to force her into is social situation which involve interacting with people in general. I know things are tough for her now but she better learns things now then never. 

For now things are good. A funny update last night my wife asked me “why do I watch that (porn), it’s not good for me” so I tell her because you are never in mood to try something interesting. She tells me “I am always in mood”, so I tell her remember this I am going to hold you this sentence all your life and she shyly runs away. 



> Actually I am a guy... . Sorry I was right but I am glad it seems to be going in the right direction....


Seriously beginning to doubt my capabilities how come you all understand everything sitting thousands of miles away and I am sitting here with no clue. But once again man thanks a lot, I genuinely mean it. Wisest thing I have done in my life is to come to this website. I don’t know who runs this but I want to say a heartfelt thanks.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Seriously beginning to doubt my capabilities how come you all understand everything sitting thousands of miles away and I am sitting here with no clue. But once again man thanks a lot, I genuinely mean it. Wisest thing I have done in my life is to come to this website. I don’t know who runs this but I want to say a heartfelt thanks.


Chris H! 

You can become a forum supporter for his website!  It is little little money! 

Ha ha ha, I am advertising for him!


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

HurtlikeHell said:


> I have started ensuring we spend more time together doing simple things, like watching a movie, playing pool, or for that matter even taking her out for shopping.
> 
> Yeah, I love spending time with my husband! And I love shopping too! Buy her all the beautiful clothes you want her to wear!  Indian women are beautiful and sexy!
> 
> ...


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

Thank God you didn't take the advice to show her porn.

I just briefly read through this post. In my opinion, it was obvious you were not dealing with a normal woman, an amazing woman, but certainly not a normal woman.

I suffered abuse and sex was hellish for me for years. I found that I hated every part of my body and was disgusted by myself and the attention I attracted. I also would lay still and close my eyes at first or keep them open and fixate on a specific object in the room. I had this distorted thinking that if I gave my body to any man who wanted it then that would be better than saying no and being forced to do something I didn't want to do. This is the feeling of powerlessness that comes from having horrible things done to you that you couldn't control or stop. 

There were times after sex where I would go in the bathroom and rock for a few minutes afterwards and after meeting my husband and working through all of these things, I still have times where we make love and I cry, not out of sorrow but out of feeling something pleasurable come from something I thought of as so horrible.

If you want your wife to have a chance at healing you have to provide a safe place for her to explore all the painful things done to her. Strangely, she most likely feels responsible for it. No doubt, when it happened to me I thought...if I never developed such large breasts I would be safe from this...if I slept with more clothes on he wouldn't have been turned on...if I wasn't nice to him he wouldn't want to do these things with me.

Also, it will take so much time. She needs to give herself permission to be herself once again.

But, most importantly, there is hope and you sound like an amazing man as much as she sounds like an amazing woman. I wish you both the best in life.


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## CktBridge (Jan 11, 2011)

HurtlikeHell said:


> Seriously beginning to doubt my capabilities how come you all understand everything sitting thousands of miles away and I am sitting here with no clue. But once again man thanks a lot, I genuinely mean it. Wisest thing I have done in my life is to come to this website. I don’t know who runs this but I want to say a heartfelt thanks.


 I wouldn't doubt your own capabilities. 

One of the joys of being senior in the military was getting to handle a lot of peoples(hundreds) personal issues....anything from work, relationships, financial woes including how to gracefully turn down aggressive advances from someone of the same sex. Fortunately many were interactive and we could frankly discuss the results from beginning to end. I asked for a lot of help in the beginning though.

Reading through your posts just made something click and that was why I strongly believed the way I did. Without all of that past experience I doubt I would have had a clue.

Now that you know more of what you are facing you have to research and decide the best path to help your relationship. That and being really patient!

Good Luck...


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## HurtlikeHell (Apr 2, 2011)

Trenton said:


> Thank God you didn't take the advice to show her porn.


I may be a stupid man but understand one basic thing women hate porn. Period. So its best avoided particularly when dealing with wife as they tend to compare themselves with porn stars. I know my wife never touches my laptop but don’t know how she got to know I watch porn sometimes. But now she has found that I think I better quit.

Also I have been promised something this week for quitting porn so I guess I don’t mind. 



> I suffered abuse and sex was hellish for me for years. I found that I hated every part of my body and was disgusted by myself and the attention I attracted. I also would lay still and close my eyes at first or keep them open and fixate on a specific object in the room. I had this distorted thinking that if I gave my body to any man who wanted it then that would be better than saying no and being forced to do something I didn't want to do. This is the feeling of powerlessness that comes from having horrible things done to you that you couldn't control or stop.


How exactly like my wife. Do you have any ideas how to make her enjoy sex? As of now she thinks sex as just another sacrifice for me. She never denies anything but never is into it either, I guess you would understand. 



> There were times after sex where I would go in the bathroom and rock for a few minutes afterwards and after meeting my husband and working through all of these things, I still have times where we make love and I cry, not out of sorrow but out of feeling something pleasurable come from something I thought of as so horrible.


See, I don’t get this part at all. If we (men) are worth your time, love and to extent devotion then how we are not worth enough to share any of your pains, shame or concerns. I can understand you don’t like sex because of the memories from the past but if you claim you love us then why not let the man know about it. If nothing we can be patient listener, a firm shoulders to cry on and more importantly someone who would be on your side irrespective of the past. 

Now that you have mentioned it I am pretty sure when my wife runs to washroom after love making, I know what’s going on. Next time she does that I am not allowing her to leave for the bathroom; tissue paper cannot challenge what is my prevlige.



> If you want your wife to have a chance at healing you have to provide a safe place for her to explore all the painful things done to her. Strangely, she most likely feels responsible for it. No doubt, when it happened to me I thought...if I never developed such large breasts I would be safe from this...if I slept with more clothes on he wouldn't have been turned on...if I wasn't nice to him he wouldn't want to do these things with me.
> 
> Also, it will take so much time. She needs to give herself permission to be herself once again.


I know this part and my colleagues at hospital are working to address these issues. I am sure we would work things out. But most important thing she needs to understand is that not all men are bad and forgive her for being in a bad situation as she was not at fault. 



> But, most importantly, there is hope and you sound like an amazing man as much as she sounds like an amazing woman. I wish you both the best in life.


Thanks for wishes I am not a amazing man but just an average frustrated chump who loves his wife but has never been able to make his wife see his point of view.


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