# No Sex What-so-ever....



## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Hi Everyone,

I've been reading for a few weeks, and finally got up the gumption to start a thread.

In all honesty, my gut tells me what I need to do in this situation, but I just can't seem to actually DO it.

I'm not married (have been before), but am in a relationship of nearly 3 years.

I'm 51, and he is 57.

When we met, I knew (after the 3rd date), that he had a major health issue (under control with medication), what I didn't know, was how much it would affect our sex life. 

For the first 6 months or so, I initiated probably 95% of the time. I would consider myself to be LD (once a week or even fortnight if jobs and life get in the way) is fine by me.... except more in the beginning stages seems to occur!

What I do adore is lots of affection like passionate kissing, sneaking up and nibbling on each others necks, caressing etc. If that leads to sex then that's okay and I'll enjoy it. If not, I enjoy the foreplay type activities!

After what I'd call a few attempts at PIV sex that failed, he told me his medication affects his abilities (blood pressure medication), but that after a while he could usually get in the headspace that makes it work, and his doctor also emphasized how important it was to keep his partner happy by doing other things with his hands and lips!! This sounded fine to me.....

However, I waited and waited and waited for that to occur. 

After 6 months of me initiating, no sexual touching at all on his behalf (he'd get me to rub his P on me, but would never actually touch me with his own hand anywhere remotely arousing) I was really puzzled. Sex consisted basically of me rubbing his shoulder in bed as an indication I was in the mood, him saying 'What are you going to do to me today and pushing my hand or mouth towards his P, letting me do the business - which may or may not work and took a long time - them him saying 'Come up here' for a cuddle after. 

That was it.

I tried to tell him what I liked, how to touch me, showed him how to do it etc. After around 5 attempts at this he tried a few times, but they lasted for 30 seconds or so before he'd get me to do the other stuff for him.

He used his hand for me on my birthday once, and said he really wanted to do that for me (not on the birthdays since).

Since the 8 month mark, we've had no sex at all.

None. That's just over 2 years with no sex. Haven't even seen each other naked. 

No nice kisses (never have really - what may have been a few attempts on his part), only pecks on the mouth or (starting a few weeks ago) on the cheek.

He has noted once, that all his other relationships, including his marriage, broke up due to his temper (he gets very angry fast) and 'the sex thing'.

I've tried talking multiple ways, multiple times (over 20?), he'd mostly say he was too tired, too stressed to talk, or he knew we had to and we'd do it later. I've waited weeks or months to raise it again to accommodate his stresses. His mother also passed away over a year ago, and he had an interesting relationship with her. He has had a tough time.

I've tried to get him to go to counselling 3 times, and been myself for 4 months.

His temper has been almost non-existent over the last 5 months as he's finally found a job he likes, (the 6th since we've been together - he left his full time job a few months after we moved in), and is happier in himself. Still no dice over the sex thing though.

The thing is, for the last 6 months or so, I've really been not attracted to him at all. He likes to hold hands, rub my leg when we sit next to each other, hug (sometimes), and put his arm around me.... and I don't like that much anymore. I've grown to feel like he's my brother or a friend.... I don't want any of that sort of touching.... some of which is probably resentment for the fact he wants that, but nothing else. I told him over a year ago that I felt we were room-mates.

We've managed to have one very interesting convo about 8 months ago in which he admitted he'd actually not been interested in sex at all since he was 40 (I thought it had only happened after his heart incident and medication at 46), and that he found sex unenjoyable and intimidating!!!!! Yikes. He then spent around 30 minutes telling me what he liked to do instead... watch documentaries, read books, travel etc. 

About 2 months ago, I accidentally realised he watches porn (no idea how much) on his phone. I'd been in the shower, and he'd been laying in bed then in the kitchen getting breakfast. I walked back into the bedroom to what sounded like amplified sex from next door (shocked if my 70 year old meek neighbour would be making that much noise - but you never know). Turns out it was coming from his phone... obviously he'd been watching porn, thought he'd stopped the video, and it was still going. Could have knocked me over with a feather as I thought he had no interest. Clearly he does when it's not intimate and just an easy way of getting off. Using his own hand would be quicker than me using mine, no doubt. 

I said nothing, left the room, and avoided it until he'd been back in, realised, and turned it off.

He never mentioned it, and probably assumes I didn't hear it and came down to the kitchen from the bathroom.

However... we rub along okay. We like the same TV shows. His family and friends are gorgeous and I love them. He likes to talk about similar things to me, but I wouldn't say we ever have any deep and meaningful conversations. I used to walk on eggshells to not upset him and activate his anger, but I don't do that as much anymore now he seems happier. 

I wouldn't say I'm dreadfully unhappy, just not happy. The rest of my life has its stresses (very ill elderly mother, stressful job), but I try and make the most of it and stick to my gratitude practice. 

I do dream about sex, intimacy, kissing and all things sex related quite a bit, and take care of my own needs several times a week (at the moment, daily because I seem to be in the mood!!!)

One of my main probs in ending it has been this.... we live in my house. I own it, and have lived here for nearly 10 years. I've worked hard to pay off this small property in a third of the time of the mortgage, and I love it here. I had to start again 10 years ago after an abusive marriage with a multiply addicted partner (gambling wiped out all our money), and it's been hard. I have my home, lots of sick leave, long service leave, and income protection. 

He has none of these.... no real assets, a loan on his car, no sick leave or income protection.... and his medical issue that may or may not cause huge problems in the future (he survived an aortic dissection 10 years ago - only 1 to 3 percent survive - and is now on lots of blood pressure meds). He lost most of his money in his marriage breakup years ago, and still has a debt he's paying from that. He is also quite overweight and has been told by his doc to get testing for diabetes twice, but doesn't.

I'm a firm believer that if you want to leave a relationship, you should be the one to pack up and move out.

But, I can't do that as it's my house. 

Until recently he wouldn't have been able to afford to move out and find somewhere to live (he doesn't pay me rent or anything), but he has some increased hours in his new job he loves, and probably could now with a room mate. He's also just very recently inherited $50,000 after the sale of his mother's house went through, so I figure he has some money now. 

I'm also thinking about my future.... I think it's better being single and alone rather than in a relationship and alone. BUT, as I think of myself as low drive, I'm wondering how hard it will be to find a new partner.

I love being in a relationship, but also really like my space and time to myself.

I suppose I'm trying too hard to guess the future and not focusing on the now enough.

And, I'm just a coward when it comes to break up conversations. 

I also have a small fear in the back of my mind that as we've been living together for over a year and a half, he'll ask for half of my home. He's entitled over here in Australia. He's always said he'd never, ever do something like that, but I've had people go ballistic on me before. (I don't think he would though....)

Help.... support.... pep talks, any and all comments very welcome.

If you've read this far, thank you. :smile2:

Red Fox.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

My pep talk is for you to end this relationship ASAP!!!! This isn't good. Not only are you not happy, but if the **** hits the fan with his health, you could end up feeling like you have to take care of him in your house forever!! 

Please end this and get him out before something happens and you feel stuck with him, or before more time passes during which he could lay more claim to the equity in the house. Do it!


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## redpoppies34 (Dec 14, 2016)

I agree. Maybe first let him know, you want to be sexually active and he has a choice. But you intend to have sex like most people do and that is what you want from life. You are entitled to it! So he can choose. Give him a weekend. Then tell him to leave. It is your house!


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

So selfish, it's not hard to use fingers, tongue, toys to make someone happy. Send him down the road.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

RedFoxHill said:


> Help.... support.... pep talks, any and all comments very welcome.


The first six months at the absolute latest should have told you to let him go.

That said if you want to have a good or great sexual relationship you should not compromise and settle for anything less. The best way a person can avoid sewage in a sexual relationship, is not to settle for such sludge.

Personally I would rather have to remain alone till I die and just masturbate, than subject myself to a horrid sexual relationship like yours.

Anyway I encourage you to dump him today say how about 45 minutes from now at 3:00pm and never again settle for crap from anyone. Or if you choose not to dump him at all, then own it and try to wear a smile no matter how high the crud rises.

P.S. If you're worried about your property with respect to your relationship, you should get some legal advice before you dump him.

Good luck.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Sex is for man people a vital part of a happy relationship. A bad sex life is a completely valid reason for leaving someone. Its very unlikely to get better. As someone has said, if his medical problems get worse you may find yourself feeling trapped taking care of him for many years.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

What, specifically, are you getting from this relationship?

What, specifically, is HE getting from this relationship?

Is there a strong imbalance in his favor?

If so, my only recommendation is to give him an ultimatum with a timetable and promise of attendance at sex therapy sessions. If he refuses, I'd move on.

His masturbating i have issue with, BECAUSE he denies sharing that energy with you. That tells me that (sorry to say) he is just not attracted to you.

You are a sexual being and deserve good sex.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

That's a tough one, you sound like you would be so much happier out of this situation, he doesnt seem to be meeting your basic needs.

I think you will find that the law in defacto in Australia is 2 years. Get him out now! 

You dont owe him the rest of your life, its not working for you, you have the right to be happy and by the sounds of it you have tried very hard to communicate your needs.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Livvie said:


> My pep talk is for you to end this relationship ASAP!!!! This isn't good. Not only are you not happy, but if the **** hits the fan with his health, you could end up feeling like you have to take care of him in your house forever!!
> 
> Please end this and get him out before something happens and you feel stuck with him, or before more time passes during which he could lay more claim to the equity in the house. Do it!


Thanks, Livvie. 

I really do know I need to do something.... and I've been in this limbo of feeling bad for him and just rolling along. I was more frustrated and extremely unhappy a while back when I went to counselling... and seem to have come to some sort of weird acceptance in the last few months. But, I don't want to come to acceptance... I don't want to cancel the rest of my sex life yet. I'm only 51. Even though I'm feeling less harried by it, I think maybe it's just because I'm kind of numb. I don't want to be numb. If I had real sex on offer, I think I'd surprise myself with how I'd react and feel.... coming back to life would be wonderful.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

redpoppies34 said:


> I agree. Maybe first let him know, you want to be sexually active and he has a choice. But you intend to have sex like most people do and that is what you want from life. You are entitled to it! So he can choose. Give him a weekend. Then tell him to leave. It is your house!


Hey Red Poppies, thanks. My problem with this is I don't want to do it with him anymore... completely lost attraction and feel 'ew' (like I would with a friend or brother) if he rubs my leg etc (which is about all I get). So, my choice is stay sexless or go, but I'm not going to give him a choice about sex therapy or anything. He's had that all along... have tried to get him there many times. Too little too late for me. Thank you for your support.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> So selfish, it's not hard to use fingers, tongue, toys to make someone happy. Send him down the road.


Thank you, I thought so too.... I think he just finds the whole thing a chore and completely boring. I also guess it would make him feel embarrassed that he can't do more? Not sure.



Personal said:


> The first six months at the absolute latest should have told you to let him go.
> 
> That said if you want to have a good or great sexual relationship you should not compromise and settle for anything less. The best way a person can avoid sewage in a sexual relationship, is not to settle for such sludge.
> 
> ...


Yep, looking back, I should have seen all the red flags, and instead of seeing potential and feeling sympathetic about his medical things, should have cut it off then and there. My gut knew this.... but I didn't listen. Boundaries and sticking up for myself have always been my weak points, which is why I've endured things in the past I should not have. Believe it or not, I am better at this than I used to be.... but clearly have a long way to go.

I don't want this to be the rest of my life, so it either changes somehow, or I'll have to get up some much needed gumption and end it. And, frankly, I can't see how it can change as I'm not attracted in any way to him anymore. I do love him (but not 'in love' with him), and we get along well as friends/buddies. But that's not enough for a life partner... is it.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Sex is for man people a vital part of a happy relationship. A bad sex life is a completely valid reason for leaving someone. Its very unlikely to get better. As someone has said, if his medical problems get worse you may find yourself feeling trapped taking care of him for many years.


Thanks for your reply uhted. I guess I've been waiting on potential. Even a couple of months ago he said that he didn't see a couple of years away from sex as meaning there would never be sex again... said he knew he had to be more physical. He says these things, but nothing has ever materialised. I'm pretty sure when I say I want to leave he'll offer to go to counselling or sex therapy then. But, for me that will be too late. He should have been interested in how I've been feeling all along instead of fobbing me off constantly and saying we'd fix/talk about it later.



Satya said:


> What, specifically, are you getting from this relationship?
> 
> What, specifically, is HE getting from this relationship?
> 
> ...


Thanks Satya. The same thing happened in his marriage... no sex. His wife had an affair in the end. She tried to get him to counselling in the beginning and he wouldn't go. He offered when she asked for a divorce but she refused. He says he then offered for them to stay in the same house and just sleep in different bedrooms. 

He originally told me he lost enthusiasm for sex after they did 7 rounds of IVF to try for a baby, and then he had his medical situation and the medication put an end to it altogether. He changed the story on that about 8 months ago and said he'd not been interested in sex since he was 40, and had also had problems with it in other prior relationships. 

I truly think he just values the closer companionship of a 'partner' rather than living with another bloke (as he was doing in a sharing situation before he moved in with me), but I'm not ready to be a partner in a relationship without sex. Some people just don't enjoy sex with other people, and I think he's one of them? (Asexual?) I mistook his lack of enthusiasm for embarrassment and shame in the beginning, and didn't want to be a horrible person and not give him a chance to settle in to things. 

I've asked him if he's attracted to me, and he says yes, very, as much as he is attracted to anyone. He sometimes tells me I look 'nice', and also says 'I love you' once every 3 weeks or so. I, on the other hand am an 'I love you' every day kind of girl. I don't do this though, as in the beginning he made it clear he thought saying I love you often was clingy behaviour. I just like to express myself!!! 

I get someone who I know will never cheat, and that is huge for me. Huge. My friends and family all like him and get along with him. I love his family and friends. He is also great at giving me space when I need it, and letting me do my theatre hobby with no complaints at all. He is funny and humorous (when he's in a good mood).

He has commented when being nasty and in a rage (on very rare occasions now) that he thinks I'm more intelligent than him, and he does what he needs to do to 'beat' me in an argument (yelling, swearing, sarcasm, put downs etc). This has always been a huge bone of contention as I'm not about winning, I'm about resolving problems as a team and reaching a workable solution. 

He also gets a nice place to live, and someone whom he probably thinks will never leave. 

I'd not thought about the masturbation thing that way. Thanks.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Just one thing on missing red flags, don't beat yourself up about it. That said thinking it will change for the better is a fools errand. Dump him or don't, whatever you choose to is on you.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Lil said:


> That's a tough one, you sound like you would be so much happier out of this situation, he doesnt seem to be meeting your basic needs.
> 
> I think you will find that the law in defacto in Australia is 2 years. Get him out now!
> 
> You dont owe him the rest of your life, its not working for you, you have the right to be happy and by the sounds of it you have tried very hard to communicate your needs.


Hey Lil, thanks. 

I'm not unhappy... but I think I've lulled myself into shutting down. I also wouldn't say I'm happy. I'm just cruising along. But I don't want to cruise, I want to feel loved, and cherished, and desired, and satisfied... and stop shutting myself down so I can carry on as I am.

Unfortunately he's been in for over 2 years... moved in really quickly due to circumstances of his rented home being sold and him needing to move out (he shared it with a couple of other blokes). I'd lived alone for 6 years (even though I'd been in a relationship for a lot of that), and loved it. He snuck in, and* I let him*. 

I HAVE tried really hard to communicate, demonstrate and facilitate a change. I've also waited months sometimes according to his mood/stress to broach the subject, and tried to be patient due to his Mum's passing and stressful job changes. 

You are right... I don't owe him the rest of my life. I think there is a part to the law that you can begin a separation from the last time you actually slept together if both agree, and if he decided to go for half of my property I'm not ashamed to say I'd have to lie and say we've been separated since a date before the 2 years was up, and living as just friends. His word against mine. (This makes me feel awful, but I would do it to save myself). 

That would mean I'd have to back date to around March this year. It sounds horrible, but if I were to lose half of a property I've worked my guts out to own outright (paying triple on the mortgage), and one he's had no contribution to, I'd do whatever is necessary. It's my life and protection. I want to be completely independent, and I'm planning to start contributing to my super now I've paid off my mortgage. I will need this if I don't want to work until I'm at least 67 (and teaching is a hard gig at any age). His best friend's wife (who thought a while back I'd be better off out of this relationship), said her husband and my partner's family (his sister is a lawyer) would be aghast if he did that, and I don't think he will. So hopefully it will be alright and as amicable as possible as I do really care for him and how his life turns out.

Thank you for your thoughts.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Have a very frank discussion with him about your sexual needs. Give him a deadline. Then tell him what will happen after that time. Go see a lawyer, I doubt he will get anything when you are together such a short time.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Personal said:


> Just one thing on missing red flags, don't beat yourself up about it. That said thinking it will change for the better is a fools errand. Dump him or don't, whatever you choose to is on you.


Thanks, Personal. 

Yes, a fools errand indeed, you are right. If I don't end it, I need to be completely aware it will probably never change, and be okay with it. That is not acceptable for me now.... so I need to take a deep breath, pick a time, and just do it. 

All of your replies have helped confirm my thoughts. 

Thank you.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

aine said:


> Have a very frank discussion with him about your sexual needs. Give him a deadline. Then tell him what will happen after that time. Go see a lawyer, I doubt he will get anything when you are together such a short time.


Thank you, aine. I think actually starting the discussion will be the worst of it for now... I hate doing things that hurt people. But, if I don't, I'm hurting myself... and it's about time I put an end to that. 

I think I will check with a lawyer this week (I'm on 2 weeks of school holidays starting tomorrow), and take it from there.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RedFoxHill said:


> Thanks for your reply uhted. I guess I've been waiting on potential. Even a couple of months ago he said that he didn't see a couple of years away from sex as meaning there would never be sex again... said he knew he had to be more physical. He says these things, but nothing has ever materialised. I'm pretty sure when I say I want to leave he'll offer to go to counselling or sex therapy then. But, for me that will be too late. He should have been interested in how I've been feeling all along instead of fobbing me off constantly and saying we'd fix/talk about it later.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Satya. The same thing happened in his marriage... no sex. His wife had an affair in the end. She tried to get him to counselling in the beginning and he wouldn't go. He offered when she asked for a divorce but she refused. He says he then offered for them to stay in the same house and just sleep in different bedrooms.


You now know exactly what his wife went through. Seems like she also just got fed up, checked out, and then was gone. This should tell you two things: 1) this isn't something he can/will change and 2) he knows exactly what he is doing, he's been here before, and he will say whatever he thinks you want to hear to keep you hanging on and delay the inevitable. 



RedFoxHill said:


> He originally told me he lost enthusiasm for sex after they did 7 rounds of IVF to try for a baby, and then he had his medical situation and the medication put an end to it altogether. He changed the story on that about 8 months ago and said he'd not been interested in sex since he was 40, and had also had problems with it in other prior relationships.


You know this makes him a gigantic <whatever the Aussie word for complete selfish prick is here>. He knows his lack of sexuality is a HUGE problem in relationships, yet he continues to get involved with women. He's lied, he's made excuses, and he's trickle truthed you. He got involved with you knowing you wanted a sexual relationship and knowing that he couldn't provide that for you as evidenced by his past relationships and failed marriage. He also knew through the same experiences that his lack of sexual interest would psychologically and emotionally damage you as well as physically frustrate you and he forged ahead fueled by pure selfishness.



RedFoxHill said:


> I truly think he just values the closer companionship of a 'partner' rather than living with another bloke (as he was doing in a sharing situation before he moved in with me), but I'm not ready to be a partner in a relationship without sex. Some people just don't enjoy sex with other people, and I think he's one of them? (Asexual?) I mistook his lack of enthusiasm for embarrassment and shame in the beginning, and didn't want to be a horrible person and not give him a chance to settle in to things.


Maybe he's asexual or maybe he has some other sexual dysfunction. Who cares? He doesn't want a romantic relationship that includes regular enthusiastic sex and you do. You're not compatible. Rejecting a potential mate based on incompatibility doesn't make you a bad person at all. It's what you're supposed to do! In the future, don't be afraid to walk away from signs of incompatibility, "something missing", and/or "something off".



RedFoxHill said:


> I've asked him if he's attracted to me, and he says yes, very, as much as he is attracted to anyone. He sometimes tells me I look 'nice', and also says 'I love you' once every 3 weeks or so. I, on the other hand am an 'I love you' every day kind of girl. I don't do this though, as in the beginning he made it clear he thought saying I love you often was clingy behaviour. I just like to express myself!!!


Regular verbal expression of feelings isn't clingy. It's natural and normal to want to hear that you are loved and to express love in return. I tell my kids I love them daily. They respond in kind. DH and I tell each other we love each other AT LEAST twice a day. I have two old high school friends I've known for more than 20 years. I'll often tell them things like "I love you and miss your face!" Hell, I tell my dogs and parrot I love them often. Never once been accused of being clingy.



RedFoxHill said:


> I get someone who I know will never cheat, and that is huge for me. Huge. My friends and family all like him and get along with him. I love his family and friends. He is also great at giving me space when I need it, and letting me do my theatre hobby with no complaints at all. He is funny and humorous (when he's in a good mood).


He won't cheat on you not because he is a fine upstanding moral man or because he values you, but because he just doesn't like sex. There is a world full of decent men who won't cheat on you, do like sex, and would be liked by your friends and family.



RedFoxHill said:


> He has commented when being nasty and in a rage (on very rare occasions now) that he thinks I'm more intelligent than him, and he does what he needs to do to 'beat' me in an argument (yelling, swearing, sarcasm, put downs etc). This has always been a huge bone of contention as I'm not about winning, I'm about resolving problems as a team and reaching a workable solution.


The more you say the more he sounds like a complete ass.




RedFoxHill said:


> Unfortunately he's been in for over 2 years... moved in really quickly due to circumstances of his rented home being sold and him needing to move out (he shared it with a couple of other blokes). I'd lived alone for 6 years (even though I'd been in a relationship for a lot of that), and loved it. He snuck in, and* I let him*.


I truly believe he moved so fast because he knew you would pick up on the lack of sexuality soon and bolt if he didn't. 



RedFoxHill said:


> You are right... I don't owe him the rest of my life. I think there is a part to the law that you can begin a separation from the last time you actually slept together if both agree, and if he decided to go for half of my property I'm not ashamed to say I'd have to lie and say we've been separated since a date before the 2 years was up, and living as just friends. His word against mine. (This makes me feel awful, but I would do it to save myself).
> 
> That would mean I'd have to back date to around March this year. It sounds horrible, but if I were to lose half of a property I've worked my guts out to own outright (paying triple on the mortgage), and one he's had no contribution to, I'd do whatever is necessary. It's my life and protection. I want to be completely independent, and I'm planning to start contributing to my super now I've paid off my mortgage. I will need this if I don't want to work until I'm at least 67 (and teaching is a hard gig at any age). His best friend's wife (who thought a while back I'd be better off out of this relationship), said her husband and my partner's family (his sister is a lawyer) would be aghast if he did that, and I don't think he will. So hopefully it will be alright and as amicable as possible as I do really care for him and how his life turns out.
> 
> Thank you for your thoughts.


You need to detach and protect yourself. He is a grown man and responsible for himself. What he has knowingly done to you is unconscionable. Remove him from your home and do whatever necessary yo protect yourself and your assets.

In the US, not all states recognize "common law marriage", which is our version of your country's "de facto". In the states that still do recognize common law, the couple living together isn't enough to qualify. The couple have to live together for a set amount of time, present themselves professionally and socially as married, share a last name, file taxes jointly, etc. Having a relationship recognized as a common law marriage isn't something a couple can do by accident. Is there no way for BF/GF to live together in your country without the relationship being recognized as de facto and giving him a claim to your assets? If so, perhaps you can "prove" he was merely a BF and has no claim. 

Also, here in the US, property owned prior to the marriage isn't marital property and not subject to asset division during a split. Generally, only what was accumulated post marriage is considered a marital asset. You owned the property before you met him, so does he even have a claim at all as a de facto partner who came along after?


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> You now know exactly what his wife went through. Seems like she also just got fed up, checked out, and then was gone. This should tell you two things: 1) this isn't something he can/will change and 2) he knows exactly what he is doing, he's been here before, and he will say whatever he thinks you want to hear to keep you hanging on and delay the inevitable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MJJEAN, for some reason, your response brought tears to my eyes. I thank you so much for taking the time to address all the bits and pieces of quotes you took out of my answers. They all 'hit home'. I think I will definitely talk to a solicitor this week... I may be worrying over nothing.

These 2 bits of yours really struck me and got to me:

1. Maybe he's asexual or maybe he has some other sexual dysfunction. Who cares? He doesn't want a romantic relationship that includes regular enthusiastic sex and you do. You're not compatible. Rejecting a potential mate based on incompatibility doesn't make you a bad person at all. It's what you're supposed to do! In the future, don't be afraid to walk away from signs of incompatibility, "something missing", and/or "something off".

2. He won't cheat on you not because he is a fine upstanding moral man or because he values you, but because he just doesn't like sex. There is a world full of decent men who won't cheat on you, do like sex, and would be liked by your friends and family.

This forum and these responses have been so helpful and validating. To have strangers on the internet take such time and care with answering is humbling.

Thank you for your response.

Red Fox Hill.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@RedFoxHill, you're very welcome. 

MJ


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I'm 53. You don't sound LD to me. You sound like a Dream Girl 

You sound like Dream Girl that needs some proper lovins. 

Some people are simply not any good in bed. 

There are so many other guys out there that would love to have an opportunity for some affection and weekly lovins. 

I don't know how you made it past the first few weeks with this guy.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

You sound very unhappy to me.

Seems you have done what you can, you need to have him move out of your house so you get have a relationship with someone that is more compatible. Life is way to short, he will never change.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> I'm 53. You don't sound LD to me. You sound like a Dream Girl
> 
> You sound like Dream Girl that needs some proper lovins.
> 
> ...


Old Shirt... :smile2::laugh::smile2: Thanks for that. I read how often some others are 'doing' it on here and think I'd die if I was doing it daily... too tired to do that after work. But I'd certainly like something, that's for sure. I've always thought of myself as low to medium drive, but I do love it when I do it!



Lostme said:


> You sound very unhappy to me.
> 
> Seems you have done what you can, you need to have him move out of your house so you get have a relationship with someone that is more compatible. Life is way to short, he will never change.


Thanks, Lostme. That's something I've just started saying to myself the last couple of weeks... some people around me have been diagnosed with illnesses and other tragic things have happened to friends lately. Life is indeed too short, and you never know what can happen. Carpe diem.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Sorry for your' situation.

He did not even do a 'bait and switch'on you 

No, he has been upfront from the start.
Oh, upfront.....hanging, hanging low..out of sight... out of mind.

The man has given up. He knows his physical and mental limitations and has resigned himself to never changing.
I suspect that he cannot ever return to any meaningful potency.

On masturbation? The hand is much stronger than a vagina. He needs rapid violent jerks to make anything happen.
Being out of shape he cannot sustain that movement with PIV.

He is not even courteous to his own body. He is letting it die, decay, one day at a time.
He may be suffering from depression, also.

He is not a bad guy.

He is using you. Using your good nature. Selfishly.

He is a guy who finished his chores way too early.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

i do not fully understand your concern about him taking 50% if your house. you are not married. Find a good lawyer, and he will tell you if that is even a possibility. Sounds pretty unlikely to me.

Yes it sounds like time to move on. He PROMISED to do all he was physically able to do to sexually satisfy you, and he is now unwilling to even lift a finger to help you. It will only get worse from here on out. Start dating again. 51 is VERY young.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Conversations like you will have are always the hardest... but also the most necessary.

There was a lot of beating up on why your partner is what he is, does what he does... leave as much of that disappointment behind if you can the moment the conversation begins. Don't get into explanations and situational examples of how and why, they will only drag you into nit-picky defensive justifications.

Expectations have now been replaced with acceptance, this is not a healthy relationship for you.

Prepare yourself to let go of any blame-exchange that may come your way.

I'm sorry you feel that way. 
I see things differently.
I’m not okay with...

The simplicity of it is, in the right relationship we are enough. 

I doubt this conversation will come as a surprise to him.

If it does, it will be yet another affirmation your decision was the right one.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RedFoxHill said:


> Old Shirt... :smile2::laugh::smile2: Thanks for that. I read how often some others are 'doing' it on here and think I'd die if I was doing it daily... too tired to do that after work. But I'd certainly like something, that's for sure. I've always thought of myself as low to medium drive, but I do love it when I do it!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, Lostme. That's something I've just started saying to myself the last couple of weeks... some people around me have been diagnosed with illnesses and other tragic things have happened to friends lately. Life is indeed too short, and you never know what can happen. Carpe diem.


I don't think you're low to medium drive at all. I think the average couple has sex something like 1-2 times per week. Your level of desire is very reasonable. You've expressed willingness to teach a man what you want and to meet his needs in return. You're prescious. Some man will be very happy to find and woo you.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RedFoxHill said:


> I also have a small fear in the back of my mind that as we've been living together for over a year and a half, he'll ask for half of my home. He's entitled over here in Australia. He's always said he'd never, ever do something like that, but I've had people go ballistic on me before. (I don't think he would though....)


How long have you owned the house? 

Sound like you need to see a lawyer to protect your house.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Your partner is really selfish and shows no inclination of wanting to change. I suggest you seriously consider ending this relationship.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

There are men out there who want to provide the woman they love with a rich, rewarding sex life as part of a relationship.

There are women out there who don't care about sex.

You both need to move on to someone you deserve.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Sorry for your' situation.
> 
> He did not even do a 'bait and switch'on you
> 
> ...


Thanks, SunCMars.

He is quite happy being the way he is I think, and probably never intended to change as he said he would. He also said he knew (after discussions with his doctor and a sex therapist) after his medical incident that he'd need to find other ways to keep a partner happy, and he was very willing to do that. As it turns out....he's not. He doesn't even seem to be aware anymore of any effect it may have on me. It was a while before he told me he knew the medication meant he'd probably not be able to do PIV again... until that time he'd been telling me it would get better now that he was trying again. It was much later I found out about all this happening before with his wife etc and he'd not been actually interested since he was 40, and then not that long ago I found out he thought sex was actually 'intimidating and unenjoyable'. 

He is content as he is I think. I feel sad and sorry that he's not interested for him... but if he's happy and satisfied with his life, then I guess that's all that matters for him and that's okay. Each to their own.

I just need to get on with my life and not feel bad about the fact that in the end we just don't compute together.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> i do not fully understand your concern about him taking 50% if your house. you are not married. Find a good lawyer, and he will tell you if that is even a possibility. Sounds pretty unlikely to me.
> 
> Yes it sounds like time to move on. He PROMISED to do all he was physically able to do to sexually satisfy you, and he is now unwilling to even lift a finger to help you. It will only get worse from here on out. Start dating again. 51 is VERY young.


In Australia, if your relationship is confirmed as defacto (2 years living together as a couple), then you are entitled to everything married people are (I google it again last night to check). The only loophole may be that some legal advice sites mentioned that part of the criteria for being considered as a genuine couple was sexual activity... so I may have an out.

I still feel young!! Thanks for the support Talker67. 



EleGirl said:


> How long have you owned the house?
> 
> Sound like you need to see a lawyer to protect your house.


EleGirl, I've only just paid it off. He's been living here for some of the time I was still making repayments. I'm hoping to see a lawyer later this week just to check on things. 



Sports Fan said:


> Your partner is really selfish and shows no inclination of wanting to change. I suggest you seriously consider ending this relationship.


SportsFan, after posting here, and discussing it further with one good friend, I've finally come to that definite conclusion. It's the best thing for both of us. He deserves a better matched partner too. It's just the 'doing' I'm finding hard. 



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> There are men out there who want to provide the woman they love with a rich, rewarding sex life as part of a relationship.
> 
> There are women out there who don't care about sex.
> 
> You both need to move on to someone you deserve.


Agreed, Rocky Mountain Yeti. Thanks. :smile2:


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Emerging Buddhist said:


> Conversations like you will have are always the hardest... but also the most necessary.
> 
> There was a lot of beating up on why your partner is what he is, does what he does... leave as much of that disappointment behind if you can the moment the conversation begins. Don't get into explanations and situational examples of how and why, they will only drag you into nit-picky defensive justifications.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Emerging Buddhist... all wonderful and sage advice. I will keep those sentences in mind. I hate this stuff, I really do. If we could both come away still liking each other that would be my aim. I really do love him (as a friend) and want him to be happy.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> I don't think you're low to medium drive at all. I think the average couple has sex something like 1-2 times per week. Your level of desire is very reasonable. You've expressed willingness to teach a man what you want and to meet his needs in return. You're prescious. Some man will be very happy to find and woo you.


MJJEAN, thank you once again. :smile2::smile2: There is always hope for the future.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You are very level headed. A rare commodity.

On the house and the 'dissolution' of your relationship, just keep mum. Say nothing about the law.

He may not know, may not pursue any legal resolution. Do not educate him.

He sounds like a nice man, somewhat of a never-jumping toad. He knows he is in the wrong.

I hope the best for you...even him. 

He needs to get a dog...a guide dog.
He can see just fine...he needs to be led to the water bowl.

Not your job, no longer your 'turn'.

It is OK to feel sorry for him...I do!


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Jaysus, you blokes have some seriously screwed up laws in Australia. Why do you elect those nutball politicians over and over again???


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> You are very level headed. A rare commodity.
> 
> On the house and the 'dissolution' of your relationship, just keep mum. Say nothing about the law.
> 
> ...


Thanks, SunCMars... do you know what...he loves dogs! Simply adores them. We don't have one as my unit doesn't have much of a back yard, and I have a 19 year old cat who probably wouldn't appreciate the addition (he and the cat get along like a house on fire - which I've always loved). It would do him good to actually get one. He often talks about the dog he left behind when he left his marriage, and if a dog comes on the TV or is in the paper, his attention is instantly there 100%. So, a real dog would be a good thing. :smile2:

I will keep mum I think, but I'll go and find out my rights in case it comes up ( I don't think it will ). 

I hope for the best for him too.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Talker67 said:


> Jaysus, you blokes have some seriously screwed up laws in Australia. Why do you elect those nutball politicians over and over again???


Tell me about it!! :scratchhead:


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

RedFoxHill said:


> Tell me about it!! :scratchhead:


Just out of curiosity, have the de facto laws caused social changes? Do couples live together less often out of fear of being de facto married if the relationship fails? 

It is rather interesting to think about, though. Here, we tend to think of living together as a trial for marriage. Some people are still in their "trial" periods 10 years later. Your government has put a legal limit on the trial period. They've basically said "Ok, look. At 2 years you have to either split up or we're considering you married for all practical purposes."


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Just out of curiosity, have the de facto laws caused social changes? Do couples live together less often out of fear of being de facto married if the relationship fails?
> 
> It is rather interesting to think about, though. Here, we tend to think of living together as a trial for marriage. Some people are still in their "trial" periods 10 years later. Your government has put a legal limit on the trial period. They've basically said "Ok, look. At 2 years you have to either split up or we're considering you married for all practical purposes."


THIS

This is *- not-* what freedom looks like.

Coddled..... from womb to grave.

Daddy and Mommy telling grown people how to live.

Who taught them? That is the problem.:frown2:


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> Just out of curiosity, have the de facto laws caused social changes? Do couples live together less often out of fear of being de facto married if the relationship fails?
> 
> It is rather interesting to think about, though. Here, we tend to think of living together as a trial for marriage. Some people are still in their "trial" periods 10 years later. Your government has put a legal limit on the trial period. They've basically said "Ok, look. At 2 years you have to either split up or we're considering you married for all practical purposes."


That's a good question MJJEAN. I'm not sure... although I don't know many people who are just living together at the moment I admit.. less than I used to. I do have a friend who got bitten when she moved in with a guy. I'm not sure how exactly, but she ended up being responsible for half of his debts (which were quite a few apparently), and she's now living in a cheap apartment that a friend is letting her rent for hardly anything as she can't afford anything else for herself and her son. It will take her a long time to climb out of it, and they were only just living together for the required time. 

It's a good point you make, I hadn't looked at it in the way you phrased it in your last sentence, but that's what they've done!


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> THIS
> 
> This is *- not-* what freedom looks like.
> 
> ...


It does complicate things, that's for sure... although I guess they were trying to provide people who aren't married with some rights in case they really get 'done over'. But, it can mean people now get 'done over' in a different way. It takes away the choice of choosing not to marry if you're not sure so that you still protect yourself. I guess it depends whether you're on the side who'd come out much better off, or the side who lose out seemingly unfairly. 

I know the phrase 'nanny state' gets thrown around a lot here in Victoria!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I have become convinced that there is a large natural variation in people's sex drives. People can try to find ways to be compatible with their partners, but in general people with relatively high drives will find ways to have sex and people with relatively low drives will find reasons not to.

Compatibility in this is very important for a happy relationship. If the gap in drives is too large, even with the best intentions it can't really be fixed.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*So what's in this relationship for you? 

Send him ceremoniously packing to go find himself a compatible "no-no sexual!"

Get on with the business of living life to its fullest and find yourself a loving, caring man who will lovingly have no problem in hauling your ashes, and have you hauling his!!*


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@RedFoxHill You've already received a lot of great advice here, so I'm just going to say ditto.

You know what you need to do; this relationship isn't meeting any of your needs and never will, and he doesn't give a flying duck about meeting your needs or making sure you are satisfied.

Do whatever you need to protect yourself and your assets (consult a lawyer!), and dump this guy like a hot potato. I can't believe you've put up with this for as long as you have. You deserve better than this.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

RedFoxHill, you are not LD. One or two times a week sounds just right to me and most of the guys I know. People have lots of things to do that take time and somehow sex takes less importance. One GOOD sex session and a follow up quickie would make you HD compared to what I have now.

You giving him 1/2 the house for living together sounds crazy to me. Although I can understand why a woman that was a SAHM, had children with a guy might want some stability in her life. You didn't make babies with this guy so I see no reason to give him half of the house.

Creating debts while together is another situation all together. Supposedly both people get some benefit from the debt that was created.

A crazy thought came to my mind. Tell him you want to be a NUN and can't live with a man so he has to move out. OK, that was just a wild thought.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I certainly wouldn't stay with someone who had no interest in sex, or no interest in sex with me, so if I were you, I would end the relationship. But, before doing that, I would talk to a lawyer about how to protect my assets.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

after you have the talk with him, do set a deadline.

it can be one in your mind, but if things do not change, time to move on.

if your talk is successful, then let me know.

I will have you talk to my wife for me. Tell her that some women do initiate and do enjoy sex and not just duty or pity sex.


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## introvert (May 30, 2016)

I'm going to echo everybody, especially MJJEAN...

I was in a relationship that was sexless for a long time when I was much younger. Unlike yours, things started out hot and heavy, but she soon lost interest (lesbian bed death?) and we went to zero sex in the last three years of our relationship. My then gf told me she had body image issues, and zero sexual feelings/desires any longer. 

I came home from work one weekend and found a vibrator she'd accidentally left out on the bed, and it devastated me to the core. 

Like you, after some time of this, we became completely platonic, and once that ship has sailed, it's pretty much impossible to feel hot for that person again.

That relationship is long over, but I want to tell you that I am 56 and having the absolute hottest sex of my life in my now relationship. You are still young and vital and I hope you will find the courage to tell your housemate that you are just that- housemates. And that you need to find a guy who will fulfill you sexually, and that will require him to take his leave of YOUR home.

Hopefully, Australian law will consider that this guy has never really had sex with you---that should count for something. And as you said, he probably really doesn't want to battle you in court anyway. As somebody else pointed out, he's not a bad guy, you are simply incompatible sexually. And to be fair, he certainly did mislead you. Not being interested in sex for over seventeen years? That's not coming back at this point.

As a parting note, I want to tell you that there are many people out there who are not intimidated by sex at all, or afraid to honestly communicate about it with their partners. Let this guy go, and you will be amazed at how wonderfully your life will change.

Best of luck to you...


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> I have become convinced that there is a large natural variation in people's sex drives. People can try to find ways to be compatible with their partners, but in general people with relatively high drives will find ways to have sex and people with relatively low drives will find reasons not to.
> 
> Compatibility in this is very important for a happy relationship. If the gap in drives is too large, even with the best intentions it can't really be fixed.





arbitrator said:


> *So what's in this relationship for you?
> 
> Send him ceremoniously packing to go find himself a compatible "no-no sexual!"
> 
> Get on with the business of living life to its fullest and find yourself a loving, caring man who will lovingly have no problem in hauling your ashes, and have you hauling his!!*





FeministInPink said:


> @RedFoxHill You've already received a lot of great advice here, so I'm just going to say ditto.
> 
> You know what you need to do; this relationship isn't meeting any of your needs and never will, and he doesn't give a flying duck about meeting your needs or making sure you are satisfied.
> 
> ...





Ursula said:


> I certainly wouldn't stay with someone who had no interest in sex, or no interest in sex with me, so if I were you, I would end the relationship. But, before doing that, I would talk to a lawyer about how to protect my assets.





harrybrown said:


> after you have the talk with him, do set a deadline.
> 
> it can be one in your mind, but if things do not change, time to move on.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much everyone.... I know what I need to do.... I'm just procrastinating hugely as it will upend someone else's life. Then again, perhaps, as suggested earlier, he may be expecting it more than I think. I know I will also suffer for a while as I'll miss having someone around and there will be a vacuum. Being lonely in a relationship is worse than being lonely outside of one though, I think. I'm pretty darn sure it'll never change if I stay... but life can change if I leave.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

introvert said:


> I'm going to echo everybody, especially MJJEAN...
> 
> I was in a relationship that was sexless for a long time when I was much younger. Unlike yours, things started out hot and heavy, but she soon lost interest (lesbian bed death?) and we went to zero sex in the last three years of our relationship. My then gf told me she had body image issues, and zero sexual feelings/desires any longer.
> 
> ...


Thank you, introvert. Yay for you having such fun at 56!!! That's amazing. Gives me hope. I don't feel old mentally or energy wise, or body wise. I'm in good shape, slim, and look younger than my years, and I'm hopeful I'd find someone else down the track once I'd got my head around this. I hope the same for him.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

One thing to keep in mind is that in a relationship where one person is unhappy, the other isn't really happy either. 




RedFoxHill said:


> Thank you so much everyone.... I know what I need to do.... I'm just procrastinating hugely as it will upend someone else's life. Then again, perhaps, as suggested earlier, he may be expecting it more than I think. I know I will also suffer for a while as I'll miss having someone around and there will be a vacuum. Being lonely in a relationship is worse than being lonely outside of one though, I think. I'm pretty darn sure it'll never change if I stay... but life can change if I leave.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

uhtred said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that in a relationship where one person is unhappy, the other isn't really happy either.


Not always true. And the happy person doesn't have to be a cruel psychopath who enjoys their partner's misery to accomplish this. They just have to be good at ignoring it.

I have been unhappy throughout our marriage. My wife has learned to ignore that, like you eventually ignore an unpleasant noise or odor if it persists long enough.

As far as I can tell, she is thrilled to be married to me. Yes, she would prefer if I were happier. But that seems to have only a small impact on her state of mind so long as I don't remind her too forcefully.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

RedFoxHill said:


> Thank you so much everyone.... I know what I need to do.... I'm just procrastinating hugely as it will upend someone else's life. Then again, perhaps, as suggested earlier, he may be expecting it more than I think. I know I will also suffer for a while as I'll miss having someone around and there will be a vacuum. *Being lonely in a relationship is worse than being lonely outside of one though, I think.* I'm pretty darn sure it'll never change if I stay... but life can change if I leave.


Nope, being lonely IN a relationship is much, much worse than being lonely outside of one. It royally sucks to have someone in close physical proximity, but miles away mentally and emotionally. I separated from my husband at the beginning of June, and haven't looked back. We're now officially separated, and I've talked to my lawyer, and we have a meeting set up with both of us and both of our lawyers. Life does get lonely sometimes, but that's when I get my dogs out for a walk, or call someone just to chat. I've gotten out and met new people, and am in a much better headspace, and have actually met someone who's captured my attention. Chances are that this will happen to you too. You'll have good days (be thankful for those), and you'll have bad days. On the bad days, get out, go see a friend or family member, go for a walk and treat yourself to a specialty coffee (or whatever you want) at the end of it, pick up the phone and call someone just to chat. Join a group/charity/organization that makes you feel good and gives purpose to your life. I'm going to look into volunteering for a soup kitchen over the holidays. Sure, life's given out some lemons in the last year or two, but there's still A LOT to be thankful for; might as well pass on those good vibes. 

Much luck to you -- you've got this!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Maybe. OTOH, they may not realize what they are missing. They can't find anything technically wrong with the marriage, but he whole think just seems sort of colorless and dry. 



Holdingontoit said:


> Not always true. And the happy person doesn't have to be a cruel psychopath who enjoys their partner's misery to accomplish this. They just have to be good at ignoring it.
> 
> I have been unhappy throughout our marriage. My wife has learned to ignore that, like you eventually ignore an unpleasant noise or odor if it persists long enough.
> 
> As far as I can tell, she is thrilled to be married to me. Yes, she would prefer if I were happier. But that seems to have only a small impact on her state of mind so long as I don't remind her too forcefully.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Maybe. OTOH, they may not realize what they are missing. They can't find anything technically wrong with the marriage, but he whole think just seems sort of colorless and dry.


To you and me, who are vainly pining for mutually satisfying sex, the marriage seems colorless and dry.

To our spouses, who are getting their needs met and who see our desire for sex as selfish, immature and maybe even warped, their lives seem full and rich. They can't understand why we do not see our lives in the same way. They pity us. But they don't allow our negativity to taint their satisfaction with their life.

If they don't realize what they are missing, or they don't value it, or they see its absence as a plus, it does not trigger the reaction you imagine it does.

Perhaps you choose to view your wife as less than joyous because that permits you to fantasize that she will some day yearn to fill the empty hole in her life. And you fantasize that she will allow you to be the one to fill that hole. Sorry to break it to you, but there is no empty space in her life to be filled, and even if there is, odds are that you are not the one she will some day allow to fill it.

I know, I am a downer. But I see no reason to sugar coat the truth when your rose colored glasses are leading you astray. Stay if you choose to do so (as you know, I am). But choose with your eyes wide open in the harsh light of day.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You may be right. OTOH, during the few times when we did have an active passionate sex life, my wife seemed legitimately very happy, much more so than has been usual. (and no, I don't know why she doesn't want to go back there -she says she does, but it never happens). 




Holdingontoit said:


> To you and me, who are vainly pining for mutually satisfying sex, the marriage seems colorless and dry.
> 
> To our spouses, who are getting their needs met and who see our desire for sex as selfish, immature and maybe even warped, their lives seem full and rich. They can't understand why we do not see our lives in the same way. They pity us. But they don't allow our negativity to taint their satisfaction with their life.
> 
> ...


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

uhtred said:


> You may be right. OTOH, during the few times when we did have an active passionate sex life, my wife seemed legitimately very happy, much more so than has been usual. (and no, I don't know why she doesn't want to go back there -she says she does, but it never happens).


I think you may be reversing the causality. Perhaps, when your wife's life is going particularly well and she is particularly happy, she finds it within herself to provide you with a more active and passionate sex life. And then something changes. She gets stressed or tired or sick or something happens with one of the kids. And she falls out of joyous mode. And the first thing she eliminates from her "to do" list is active passionate sex. Because she wasn't doing it for herself. She was giving it to you as a gift. And when her tank is less full, she has less to give. And when she has less to give, you get less.

So if you want more passionate sex, make sure the stars are aligned in her life. Is that an enormous amount of work? Yes. Exhausting? Yes. Fair? No.

Sucks to be you. Ask me how I know. But look on the bright side. Some of us never got a few times when we did have active passionate sex. So as bad as it is, it could be worse.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Hi everyone, just popping back in again to say thank you for all your help. We had a talk about splitting up last night.... he actually initiated it by asking if I was happy in the relationship and if I still wanted him to live here with me as I'd seemed off-hand the last few months and he felt something was wrong.

When put on the spot like that, what could I say? I told him I felt we were room mates and he agreed. He said we hadn't had much talk, conversation, interaction, communication etc lately. He told me he cared for me very much and loved me still, but if I'd like him to move out, he would as soon as he could (which will be a while as he's away for work for a week or two starting next week, and housing in our city is hard to come by). 

He kept saying he'd screwed up, and was so sad it would end this way. About an hour or so later (we were in bed and neither of us could sleep.... 2am by this time), he asked if we were really done? Were we just going to give up? Again, I said I thought of him as a brother/friend now, and I felt there was no going back. He said he didn't want to get in the way of me finding the right person for me, and that I'd been more than patient and kind to him.... I was rare... :crying: 

We held hands and hugged each other etc, and probably felt closer to each other than we have in over a year. If only we'd had this sort of discussion a year or two ago... maybe this could have been avoided?

He said he felt we really hadn't tried to work on our intimacy issue (I think I did... tried talking over 20+ times across years, tried to get him to counseling 3 times, went to counseling myself, tried to initiate), and that sometimes it takes a 'wake-up call' like this to really get change happening.

He seemed truly sad and sorry.

Said it's always the same issues in his relationships.... he just seems to screw it up again and again and he didn't want to.

I made a comment about how we hadn't even seen each other naked in over 2 years, and he laughed but said he felt I wouldn't want to anyway with all the weight he's gained (he is quite overweight with a large tummy - not anywhere else really), and that's why he's been trying to go swimming a couple of times a week again, to get some weight off.

While he's still living here (until he can move) he said he'd just continue on as normal... send me a text during the day, ask how my day's been, make me cups of tea, etc etc. He's done that already today. 

I don't know.... I'm feeling very sad, upset and like I'm second guessing myself.

I still think I'm not that HD (LD in my opinion, even though I am a very affectionate person), and I'd rather no sex than someone who wants it all the time (daily etc) as long as I can get affection and nice kisses and good communication (which we didn't have, I don't think).

I do miss close physical contact with someone. I do enjoy sex with the right person. And, I do miss it.... but is it worth the sacrifice? I don't feel that 'spark' with him that I'd like to have. But... maybe I'm not meant to have it. I seem to have not been able to make a relationship stick over 10 years throughout my life... people have cheated on me (usually with women nearly half my age or much, much younger), or tried to get me into swinging (not for me), or turned into someone different as the relationship goes along. 

I don't know.

Just feeling a little heartbroken and sad that it's come to this when it could have been so different.

We both still have love for each other. Just not 'in love' with each other... but he's not that type I don't think, never has been.

He's loyal.

If I'm better off without him, why am I so sad about it.... another goodbye. 

I will truly miss his presence and the companionship of living with someone else... and yet I'll also enjoy having my space and my home back just for me.

I'm befuddled at the moment.

Tired, teary and sad..... have taken the day off work, which is something I rarely do.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

He'll make a fine friend. You've made the right decision. If you don't go through with the split, you'll be back here in a month telling us how nothing got better. And we'll be like "Told ya so!" You don't realy want to hear that, do you?


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

Tatsuhiko said:


> He'll make a fine friend. You've made the right decision. If you don't go through with the split, you'll be back here in a month telling us how nothing got better. And we'll be like "Told ya so!" You don't realy want to hear that, do you?


Hi Tatsuhiko,thanks for your response. :smile2:

I got myself to a counselor today (same one I went to for around 4 months about a year ago). She helped put things in perspective and basically said he needs to move out at the very least so I can find some headspace to see where I'm at. She was leaning towards us being really great mates... can still be in each other's lives.... but to see how things develop over 6 months once he's moved out... be kind to myself. Have the talk about being friends but needing to explore the opportunity of a romantic partnership with someone who's suited to me that way (if the chance comes up). 

She said at the moment everything is too bunched up in the whole relationship bundle, and I can't think clearly. Once there's some space between us, I might be surprised at the shift I feel. She also said he may feel relief too, knowing we can still be in each other's lives, but there'll be no pressure on him to do anything physical anymore.

When he gets home from his work trip next week, that's the course I'll take I think. He's still saying he wants to work it out, but as you said, I think it would be a brief improvement and then back to the status quo.

As Dr. Phil says.... the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

He deserves not to be put in a holding pattern by me while I can't think straight. 

This site has been a huge help (I've read a lot over the last few weeks).


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Honestly, it sounds like he contributed very little to your life - in all aspects. I'm also getting the impression that you basically carried him financially by providing free housing for him for the last 2 years.

Time to take this off life support. Some people make better friends than lovers (in your case I can't say lovers). It is what it is. 

I'm getting the impression that you assume any man you meet is going to be HD and you're going to be knocking yourself out trying to keep up with him. Not all men 50+ are HD. I think you're assuming the worst and you shouldn't be.

Most all endings are sad because it means change in our lives and the end of a part of our lives. But just because it saddens you and causes you to question if you made the right decision DOESN'T mean you're doing the wrong thing. You're not. You made the right decision.

Someday down the road if you're looking for a guy who needs a woman to provide free housing for him in exchange for not much more than a TV watching partner, then he's the guy to call. Otherwise, it's time to move on.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@RedFoxHill I'm very proud of you for taking this step! Stick with the IC, I think it will help immensely. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MJJEAN said:


> Snipping all of this lovely stuff that I agree with since you have read it before.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DonJoseluis (Oct 22, 2017)

I fell your pain. On one end I got caught jerking off by my wife. She was upset with me and asked why I wouldn?t come get her. Honesty, she was too busy with work and would drum up showering,brushing her teeth, drawing it out. It was easier to run one out. I know how to touch myself and she would pick up on nor listen to what I liked. I was not asking for anything like the porn but I know what I like. Well now that we are not having sex, I will not go out and cheat so I am left to my right. I too enjoy all the passions you mentioned.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Honestly, it sounds like he contributed very little to your life - in all aspects. I'm also getting the impression that you basically carried him financially by providing free housing for him for the last 2 years.
> 
> Time to take this off life support. Some people make better friends than lovers (in your case I can't say lovers). It is what it is.
> 
> ...


Hi She'sStillGotIt... thanks. I guess I do kind of have that impression about the men I may meet. I'll be taking some time to get my head straight, get to the gym, eat well, and just plain old sleep before I think too much about it though. I just feel I need to cocoon myself for a while and process stuff. 


I've been very sad.... but I do think it's the right thing. The change will be big... an empty house to come home to, and no-one to wake up to etc, but I'll get used to it again. I lived by myself for 6+ years prior (even though I was in a relationship for most of that time), so I'll get the knack back.

I must say I'm looking forward to clearing out some stuff, re-decorating a bit, and I've booked in to get my bathroom redone early next year. I'm a real homebody, so all this is very exciting. I'll be making my space mine again.

I think he will make a better friend indeed.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

FeministInPink said:


> @RedFoxHill I'm very proud of you for taking this step! Stick with the IC, I think it will help immensely.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Thank you FeministInPink! :smile2: I'm not going to like much of it, but I know it's for the best. There are some things I'm looking forward to about it though... having my house back just for me will be liberating. I'll be going to the IC for sure as needed. She's very matter of fact, and gets to the guts of things pretty quickly.


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## RedFoxHill (Sep 23, 2017)

NobodySpecial said:


> MJJEAN said:
> 
> 
> > Snipping all of this lovely stuff that I agree with since you have read it before.
> ...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

NobodySpecial said:


> MJJEAN said:
> 
> 
> > Snipping all of this lovely stuff that I agree with since you have read it before.
> ...


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## drewg350 (Oct 14, 2017)

I'd say between his medical condition and his heavy weight, he has Low T. Especially since he admitted "not having any interest in sex since around 40 years old". I had very little interest in sex, had no drive, was tired and the time, and my "equipment", besides actually shrinking, didn't work well. I couldn't get hard erections, or if I did get semi-hard, it took awhile, and it wouldn't usually last very long. I also gained significant body fat. The worst part was how I had absolutely "no feelings" for anything. I treated my wife like a roommate instead of a wife. Immediately upon starting TRT, my life turned around in every facet. My equipment grew back to size, gets rock hard, and I have zero issues staying hard. In fact, my refractory period is under 5 minutes and I'm ready to go again. I love my wife and show her affection through out the day. She says "she has her husband back after 20 year's". Unfortunately because of your husband's health issues, even if Low T is a major problem, he might not be able to take testosterone replacement. Only his doctor can say for sure. As a last ditch effort, you might want to encourage him to have his T levels checked. If their low, and he can get on TRT, I'd bet you'd see a complete 180, and rather quickly.
If that's not possible or he's not suffering from this, than you need to get out of this relationship and move on with your life. No offense, but you're getting older and you don't want to stay in this ****ty relationship for year's, than look back at a point and wished you had done something year's ago. You'll have significant regrets. Best of luck.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> To you and me, who are vainly pining for mutually satisfying sex, the marriage seems colorless and dry.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your assumption (and that of many men in a similar situation) is that you assume that her needs are being met. ‘As far as I can tell she’s happy’. This phrasing tells me that you can’t be bothered to find out.
You also refuse to tell her that you are unhappy.
And you are supposed to share and work through marital issues together, not sweep it under the carpet.
You somehow managed to find a way to delight in your situation (it’s admirable but also weirdly amazing & improbable) which tells me that out of the two of you, I would be willing to bet that you are the happier one. Sorry for the TJ.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> I think you may be reversing the causality. Perhaps, when your wife's life is going particularly well and she is particularly happy, she finds it within herself to provide you with a more active and passionate sex life. And then something changes. She gets stressed or tired or sick or something happens with one of the kids. And she falls out of joyous mode. And the first thing she eliminates from her "to do" list is active passionate sex. Because she wasn't doing it for herself. She was giving it to you as a gift. And when her tank is less full, she has less to give. And when she has less to give, you get less.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is actually probably true. But it is a weird and skewed way looking at it in my opinion.

If something significant happened in your partner’s life, it doesn’t have to be something tragic, just something powerful enough that affected them enough, not to have sexual thoughts in the foreground of their minds whenever the partner feels like it.
It takes a special kind of personality to first of all completely disregard that problem and not really be part of it and then twist it all into some kind of intentional conspiracy against themselves.
It’s too easy to play the victim and too predictable a move.

This is obviously quite extreme. I’d say it is probably true that sex is often not in the same ‘ranking order’ for most couples. But it’s just a fact. Should it be? Why? 
When we were children, our priorities had to become our parent’s priorities immediately. A relationship does not function in the same way as a parent/child relationship does. There comes a point when we need to grow the **** up, communicate and be reasonable about our needs (big generalization here; many couples do have problems that fall outside of this).

Is it not possible to just step back a little and view a relationship as a whole (not as a hole), and not just the sex part being a make or break issue? Causality can be whatever you are going to want it to be. And I know (and understand) what many men want it to be (often including myself). I’m just saying somebody has to step up and break the cycle otherwise it’s Groundhog Day til death do us part. (Sorry this had again nothing to do with OP’s post. Will take it to another thread).
Edit: @Holdingontoit perhaps you did try everything there is to try and I’m being unfair to you. I’m trying to motivate to not give up (something you may not need at all at this stage). It might come across as terribly dismissive after re-reading it.

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