# Hi! I am Lisa



## ecoylisa

I am new to this forum but have been cruising and reading many posts and have been thoroughly glad that I have learnt so much. I am married to my best friend from college, but right now we are facing some issues. I cannot talk to my close friends or family about it and i thought perhaps i could request help here.  looking forward to being here. :smile2:


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## bikermehound

hi lisa whats up 

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk


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## StillSearching

Whats going on Lisa?


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## arbitrator

*Lisa, you've definitely come to right place! You'll have friends here!

Looking forward to hearing your story!*


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## StillSearching

Looks like you are probably a Betrayed Spouse?


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## Spicy

Welcome to TAM Lisa. Fill us in on your situation so we can try to help you!


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## ecoylisa

bikermehound said:


> hi lisa whats up
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk





StillSearching said:


> Whats going on Lisa?





arbitrator said:


> *Lisa, you've definitely come to right place! You'll have friends here!
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your story!*





ecoylisa said:


> I am new to this forum but have been cruising and reading many posts and have been thoroughly glad that I have learnt so much. I am married to my best friend from college, but right now we are facing some issues. I cannot talk to my close friends or family about it and i thought perhaps i could request help here.  looking forward to being here. :smile2:


As I was mentioning, lately I am married to my best friend which also means that i am (earlier i had thought both of us) emotionally dependent on my partner. Laterly, he has realized that he is polygamous and i have always been strictly monogamous (not that i don't understand that it is different for different people. But i do feel disappointed about the world that we have built and now other people and their involvement will threaten this)
I am caught in a place where i know my partner is unhappy and i am unhappy but i can't truthfully say that he should chase his happiness of fulfillment of his desires. What do i do?


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## Andy1001

ecoylisa said:


> As I was mentioning, lately I am married to my best friend which also means that i am (earlier i had thought both of us) emotionally dependent on my partner. Laterly, he has realized that he is polygamous and i have always been strictly monogamous (not that i don't understand that it is different for different people. But i do feel disappointed about the world that we have built and now other people and their involvement will threaten this)
> I am caught in a place where i know my partner is unhappy and i am unhappy but i can't truthfully say that he should chase his happiness of fulfillment of his desires. What do i do?


He can call it whatever he wants but around here we call people like your husband “cake eaters”.
Has he told you who he wants to cheat with yet,because that’s basically what he wants. 
And does his “polygamy” extend to you,in other words will he be ok if you get a boyfriend?
Tell him he can live whatever lifestyle he wants,just not as your husband. And please protect yourself,he may be cheating already and you have to be careful of contracting STD’s.


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## Laurentium

This seems like a good reason to end the marriage.


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## TJW

ecoylisa said:


> i am (earlier i had thought both of us) emotionally dependent on my partner.


Being emotionally dependent upon such a man is going to bring you lots of pain. You need to make a different choice, whether you stay with your husband, or not:

This is a "recipe" to cook up emotional independence, from partners, from everyone other than yourself:

*THE 180:*



ecoylisa said:


> Laterly, he has realized that he is polygamous


Are these his words ? Polygamy is a CHOICE, not a "realization". No one, but no one, is "born" polygamous. no one is "born" monogamous. These are life choices we make for ourselves. "The devil made me do it" is not valid. "That's just how I am" is not valid. These are lies. A person must "own" his choices, or he will be carried about by the wind, into any kind of morally-unacceptable activity.

Lose this guy. Fast. Polygamy is not in keeping with the vows of marriage.


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## Edmund

I think you mean polyamorous. Polygamy is illegal in most places in the US. Google or otherwise read about “ethical nonmonogamy” to learn what your husband may be thinking. It sounds to me that he is not concerned with the “ethical” part which involves mutual consent. In which case there is another term for what he is doing: infidelity. It is like cheating except you know about it. You have to decide what you can tolerate and then decide what to do about it. There will be others on here who can better advise you on getting out of infidelity and why it is important.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> He can call it whatever he wants but around here we call people like your husband “cake eaters”.


Who is WE and AROUND HERE?

OP: google ethical non-monogamy for the learning you can achieve on that topic. I would recommend a marriage counselor. I would specifically look for one who is not automatically anti-ethical non-monogamy. Whether it is for you and your husband, it would be helpful for him not to feel castigated out of the gate.

-- Coming from someone with decades of practice with ethical non-monogamy.


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## NobodySpecial

TJW said:


> Being emotionally dependent upon such a man is going to bring you lots of pain. You need to make a different choice, whether you stay with your husband, or not:
> 
> This is a "recipe" to cook up emotional independence, from partners, from everyone other than yourself:
> 
> *THE 180:*
> 
> 
> 
> Are these his words ? Polygamy is a CHOICE, not a "realization". No one, but no one, is "born" polygamous. no one is "born" monogamous. These are life choices we make for ourselves. "The devil made me do it" is not valid. "That's just how I am" is not valid. These are lies. A person must "own" his choices, or he will be carried about by the wind, into any kind of morally-unacceptable activity.
> 
> Lose this guy. Fast. Polygamy is not in keeping with the vows of marriage.



Sigh - Bear in mind that this is a VERY conservative board with a LOT of people who never processed their own marriages many of which include infidelity. This is not the best place to get understanding.


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## NobodySpecial

Edmund said:


> I think you mean polyamorous. Polygamy is illegal in most places in the US. Google or otherwise read about “ethical nonmonogamy” to learn what your husband may be thinking. It sounds to me that he is not concerned with the “ethical” part which involves mutual consent. In which case there is another term for what he is doing: infidelity. It is like cheating except you know about it. You have to decide what you can tolerate and then decide what to do about it. There will be others on here who can better advise you on getting out of infidelity and why it is important.


Does she say he is screwing around with deception? I must have missed that.


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## NobodySpecial

Many places have local FB PRIVATE groups as well.


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## Andy1001

NobodySpecial said:


> Who is WE and AROUND HERE?
> 
> OP: google ethical non-monogamy for the learning you can achieve on that topic. I would recommend a marriage counselor. I would specifically look for one who is not automatically anti-ethical non-monogamy. Whether it is for you and your husband, it would be helpful for him not to feel castigated out of the gate.
> 
> -- Coming from someone with decades of practice with ethical non-monogamy.


I asked you a few weeks ago if you are in an open relationship but you sort of half answered. 
Maybe you can explain the difference between an open relationship and ethical non-monogamy. 
To me it sounds like the op’s husband has developed feelings for someone else and wants to test the waters without risking his marriage. This leaves the op as plan B.
Who wants to be plan B?


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## StillSearching

NobodySpecial said:


> Sigh - Bear in mind that this is a VERY conservative board with a LOT of people who never processed their own marriages many of which include infidelity. This is not the best place to get understanding.


She said "helpful to me to understand the psyche of various motivations that might lead people to cheat" on another thread.
Doesn't sound like she's all into the wife swap lifestyle.


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## NobodySpecial

StillSearching said:


> She said "helpful to me to understand the psyche of various motivations that might lead people to cheat" on another thread.
> Doesn't sound like she's all into the wife swap lifestyle.


Grrrrr. She never said anything about wife swapping.

OP - If you feel that your husband is genuine about polyamory vs being a douche canoe that wants to bang when he wants to bang, then I would recommend

https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-C...ds=opening+up&qid=1555333976&s=gateway&sr=8-1

Or even that book might help you identify if your husband IS a douche canoe who just wants to bang what he wants to bang. 

But be aware that polyamory is a real thing. Yes some people hear the word and think it is license to be a prick. But they are and were pricks anyway. There are many, many people who feel this way. You do not owe your DH ANYTHING in this regard. Because HE may feel he is poly does not mean you HAVE to allow it. It is not what you signed up for. But if you want to understand where HE might be coming from, you have resources.


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## MattMatt

NobodySpecial said:


> Grrrrr. She never said anything about wife swapping.
> 
> OP - If you feel that your husband is genuine about polyamory vs being a douche canoe that wants to bang when he wants to bang, then I would recommend
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Opening-Up-C...ds=opening+up&qid=1555333976&s=gateway&sr=8-1
> 
> Or even that book might help you identify if your husband IS a douche canoe who just wants to bang what he wants to bang.
> 
> But be aware that polyamory is a real thing. Yes some people hear the word and think it is license to be a prick. But they are and were pricks anyway. There are many, many people who feel this way. You do not owe your DH ANYTHING in this regard. Because HE may feel he is poly does not mean you HAVE to allow it. It is not what you signed up for. But if you want to understand where HE might be coming from, you have resources.


But a polyamous relationship with only one spouse getting extra loving (to coin a phrase) does not sound like an open marriage, it sounds more akin to a cuckold or cuckquean deal, with elements of Plan Berism.


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## NobodySpecial

MattMatt said:


> But a polyamous relationship with only one spouse getting extra loving (to coin a phrase) does not sound like an open marriage, it sounds more akin to a cuckold or cuckquean deal, with elements of Plan Berism.


I don't know what to tell you. It works for a LOT of people regardless of what it "sounds like".


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## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Who is WE and AROUND HERE?
> 
> OP: google ethical non-monogamy for the learning you can achieve on that topic. I would recommend a marriage counselor. I would specifically look for one who is not automatically anti-ethical non-monogamy. Whether it is for you and your husband, it would be helpful for him not to feel castigated out of the gate.
> 
> -- Coming from someone with decades of practice with ethical non-monogamy.


I think there is a difference between two people deciding this together and one spouse "realizing" this after years of marriage. The former makes sense. The latter is poorly veiled cheating.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I think there is a difference between two people deciding this together and one spouse "realizing" this after years of marriage. The former makes sense. The latter is poorly veiled cheating.


Well, I guess one could CHOOSE to see it that way. But one can also be open to understanding their spouse. Do you think you were fully baked when you stood at the alter for your first marriage oh so many years ago? I know I wasn't. I know my husband wasn't. 

If she chooses not to get on the ride, no blood, no foul. It is certainly not what she signed up for. Or she can choose to learn more and see what it really can be able. Personally, I am glad I chose the latter. But that is just me. And many of the people I know.


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## Robbie1234

NobodySpecial said:


> Well, I guess one could CHOOSE to see it that way. But one can also be open to understanding their spouse.
> 
> I think most of the population would see it as someone wanting to play away from home without losing their comfy marriage or their reputation.
> I noticed that you answered most of the posts since you came to this thread except the question @Andy1001 asked you. I too would like to know what you think the difference between ethical monogamy and an open marriage is.


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## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think there is a difference between two people deciding this together and one spouse "realizing" this after years of marriage. The former makes sense. The latter is poorly veiled cheating.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess one could CHOOSE to see it that way. But one can also be open to understanding their spouse. Do you think you were fully baked when you stood at the alter for your first marriage oh so many years ago? I know I wasn't. I know my husband wasn't.
> 
> If she chooses not to get on the ride, no blood, no foul. It is certainly not what she signed up for. Or she can choose to learn more and see what it really can be able. Personally, I am glad I chose the latter. But that is just me. And many of the people I know.
Click to expand...

So you are saying a person who doesn't want to share they began a monogamous marriage to is somehow bad or not enlightened or selfish?

But the spouse who wants others after PROMISING monogamy is NOT selfish?


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## SpinyNorman

@ecoylisa this isn't what most of us expected when we got married, but here you are. If you know you don't want this, that is a good reason to end the marriage.

But given where you are, you might want to do some research to see if it might work for you. As @NobodySpecial said, research "concensual non-monogamy" and/or see a counselor to discuss it. If you decide it could work, then you'd need to get your H to discuss what it would mean.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> I asked you a few weeks ago if you are in an open relationship but you sort of half answered.


I am just seeing this. Not sure why it is not showing in my quote list. I am surprised I half answered. 

What we do would not be called an open relationship. We would be called polyamorous.



> Maybe you can explain the difference between an open relationship and ethical non-monogamy.


Ethical non-monogamy is the umbrella term that encompasses non-monogamy wrt sex and/or love relationships. It has many sub-components including swinging, open, poly... It's common principle is honesty. Full consent of all parties involved.



> To me it sounds like the op’s husband has developed feelings for someone else and wants to test the waters without risking his marriage. This leaves the op as plan B.
> 
> Who wants to be plan B?


It sounds like that to you because that is what you are used to hearing. It is also possible that OP's husband ha hitched a ride on the poly train as a legitimization. It is also possible that the dude feels like a poly person. It does not sound like either to me. OP has a choice.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> So you are saying a person who doesn't want to share they began a monogamous marriage to is somehow bad or not enlightened or selfish?


No I am not saying that. What even? 



> But the spouse who wants others after PROMISING monogamy is NOT selfish?


I won't lie. I don't get bent about the fact that people change after years and decades. She can decide -- sure he is selfish. He promised. That and $20 will get you a Starbucks, not a great marriage. Every Single One of Us has changed since they day we made our promises. The thing she has to decide for herself is whether or not she wants to go the understanding route. And I will be the first to support her if she chooses NOT to.


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## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> No I am not saying that. What even?
> 
> 
> 
> I won't lie. I don't get bent about the fact that people change after years and decades. She can decide -- sure he is selfish. He promised. That and $20 will get you a Starbucks, not a great marriage. Every Single One of Us has changed since they day we made our promises. The thing she has to decide for herself is whether or not she wants to go the understanding route. And I will be the first to support her if she chooses NOT to.


I'm sorry, it is not comparable to equate changing weight, changing a political view, becoming more or less introverted and "I want to sleep with other people besides you."

I'm not bashing people who choose to be nonmonagamous at all.

But let's at least be honest instead of minimizing it like they just changed favorite ice cream flavors.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I'm sorry, it is not comparable to equate changing weight, changing a political view, becoming more or less introverted and "I want to sleep with other people besides you."


I don't care what people want to equate it to. I would not "equate it" to anything of the sort. Nor have I.



> I'm not bashing people who choose to be nonmonagamous at all.
> 
> But let's at least be honest instead of minimizing it like they just changed favorite ice cream flavors.


Please stop trying to tell me I am saying things I am not saying.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

NobodySpecial said:


> Well, I guess one could CHOOSE to see it that way. But one can also be open to understanding their spouse. Do you think you were fully baked when you stood at the alter for your first marriage oh so many years ago? I know I wasn't. I know my husband wasn't.
> 
> If she chooses not to get on the ride, no blood, no foul. It is certainly not what she signed up for. Or she can choose to learn more and see what it really can be able. Personally, I am glad I chose the latter. But that is just me. And many of the people I know.


I certainly wasn't fully baked when I stood at the alter and neither was my wife.

What were were, though, is fully committed to each other and _each other alone_, which is exactly _what we promised_ to each other in front of witnesses.


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## NobodySpecial

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I certainly wasn't fully baked when I stood at the alter and neither was my wife.
> 
> What were were, though, is fully committed to each other and _each other alone_, which is exactly _what we promised_ to each other in front of witnesses.


And it is perfectly reasonable for the OP to choose that approach.


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## Andy1001

NobodySpecial said:


> I am just seeing this. Not sure why it is not showing in my quote list. I am surprised I half answered.
> 
> What we do would not be called an open relationship. We would be called polyamorous.
> 
> 
> Ethical non-monogamy is the umbrella term that encompasses non-monogamy wrt sex and/or love relationships. It has many sub-components including swinging, open, poly... It's common principle is honesty. Full consent of all parties involved.
> 
> 
> 
> It sounds like that to you because that is what you are used to hearing. It is also possible that OP's husband ha hitched a ride on the poly train as a legitimization. It is also possible that the dude feels like a poly person. It does not sound like either to me. OP has a choice.


Maybe I’m not getting this because it’s Monday or maybe you’re not explaining it very well.
You say you don’t have an open marriage (Your profile says different btw) but you are polyamorous.
Doesn’t this mean you are free to have sex with other people and your husband likewise?
So what’s the difference?
Please don’t think I’m judging,I’m not. In my opinion consenting adults can do whatever they want as long as nobody else is getting hurt.


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## Yeswecan

ecoylisa said:


> As I was mentioning, lately I am married to my best friend which also means that i am (earlier i had thought both of us) emotionally dependent on my partner. Laterly, he has realized that he is polygamous and i have always been strictly monogamous (not that i don't understand that it is different for different people. But i do feel disappointed about the world that we have built and now other people and their involvement will threaten this)
> I am caught in a place where i know my partner is unhappy and i am unhappy but i can't truthfully say that he should chase his happiness of fulfillment of his desires. What do i do?


Advise your H this is not what you signed up for. It is enough to end the marriage IMO.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe I’m not getting this because it’s Monday or maybe you’re not explaining it very well.
> You say you don’t have an open marriage (Your profile says different btw) but you are polyamorous.


Yes. This is correct. I have no recollection what my profile says or what the options are.



> Doesn’t this mean you are free to have sex with other people and your husband likewise?


That is a GROSS over simplification. It would not work out if I came home and said, hey dear, I banged my boss in the copy room. 



> So what’s the difference?


To simplify won't do it justice. And there is a TON out there that you can read about. This is why you frequently see me post a link to my favorites of many, many books on the subject. But I will try. An open marriage is the term used to describe outside sex only. These are independent sexual activities with others than ones marriage partner. Polyamory is the term used to describe openness to multiple romantic partners. For most people, this will often include sex. But it is a phenomenon that embraces asexuality, though that is not something I have any experience with. So within an open marriage, a spouse is likely aware that their spouse has sex with someone named Sara, and he is going to see her on Saturday. With poly, Sara may come over for dinner with or without her husband. I have a pair of earrings in my earring tree that my BF made for me, for example. DH went out with his GF and her kid to the laser tag recently...



> Please don’t think I’m judging,I’m not. In my opinion consenting adults can do whatever they want as long as nobody else is getting hurt.


It's all good.

ETA: To put my PoV in some context for you, Lisa, neither my husband nor I had ever even thought of this when we got married. We had nice, traditional, forsaking all others vows like everyone else.


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## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> Maybe I’m not getting this because it’s Monday or maybe you’re not explaining it very well.
> You say you don’t have an open marriage (Your profile says different btw) but you are polyamorous.


Just checked. There is no option for polyamorous. And it sure is not polygamy.


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## Laurentium

NobodySpecial said:


> You do not owe your DH ANYTHING in this regard. Because HE may feel he is poly does not mean you HAVE to allow it. It is not what you signed up for. But if you want to understand where HE might be coming from, you have resources.


Yes, I like that.


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## Edmund

NobodySpecial said:


> Does she say he is screwing around with deception? I must have missed that.


I don’t think she said anything about deception. If he was seeing someone else secretly, that would be out and out cheating as I understand it. I assumed he told her in advance and since she knows he can say it is not cheating because she knows. But it is still infidelity because he is breaking his wedding vow. And it is not “ethical” because she is clearly confused about the potential consequences and is not on board with it.


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## arbitrator

*There are many men out there, just as you do, who desire to remain in a monogamous relationship!

Oblige them! You'll be far happier for it!*


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## red oak

NobodySpecial said:


> ETA: To put my PoV in some context for you, Lisa, neither my husband nor I had ever even thought of this when we got married. We had nice, traditional, forsaking all others vows like everyone else.


I think most people forget they have the right/choice to create their own way of life and live it.
If a couple chooses to do so they can reach their own agreement as what constitutes fidelity for them instead of forcing themselves into a social modality which doesn't truly fit them.

As you and your husband seem to have done.

It would take lots of discussion and learning on both parts.


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## ecoylisa

I am very thankful for all the comments and perspectives left. As you can imagine, these thoughts have, at once, cleared my mind about some things, gave me possible paths to choose from and muddled up some things i thought i knew. I will be considering dearly. And will definitely let you guys know about my decisions and thought. I definitely need to be less emotionally dependent on him. And yes, i did mean polyamory (I looked it up).


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## OnTheFly

Polyamory is the cat’s meow. Think of all the happy, well balanced children that will come from it.

Seriously, what could go wrong?

Sorry, Lisa, you got served a **** sandwich on a silver platter. It’s a sad day when your best friend, lover, and husband dropped this in your lap.


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## personofinterest

Edmund said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does she say he is screwing around with deception? I must have missed that.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think she said anything about deception. If he was seeing someone else secretly, that would be out and out cheating as I understand it. I assumed he told her in advance and since she knows he can say it is not cheating because she knows. But it is still infidelity because he is breaking his wedding vow. And it is not “ethical” because she is clearly confused about the potential consequences and is not on board with it.
Click to expand...

 Exactly. I understand the inclination to defend a lifestyle choice, but this man's motives are so transparent one would have to be intentionally blind not to see it.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> Exactly. I understand the inclination to defend a lifestyle choice, but this man's motives are so transparent one would have to be intentionally blind not to see it.


I am neither intentionally blind nor attempting to defend my choice. I am offering an alternative point of view. I am getting sick of you telling me what I think.


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## NobodySpecial

OnTheFly said:


> Polyamory is the cat’s meow. Think of all the happy, well balanced children that will come from it.


Do some reading. You'd be surprised.


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## NobodySpecial

red oak said:


> I think most people forget they have the right/choice to create their own way of life and live it.
> If a couple chooses to do so they can reach their own agreement as what constitutes fidelity for them instead of forcing themselves into a social modality which doesn't truly fit them.
> 
> As you and your husband seem to have done.
> 
> It would take lots of discussion and learning on both parts.


For us, this discussion and learning has lead to an intimacy that was formerly beyond our understanding.


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## She'sStillGotIt

OnTheFly said:


> Polyamory is the cat’s meow. Think of all the happy, well balanced children that will come from it.
> 
> Seriously, what could go wrong?
> 
> Sorry, Lisa, you got served a **** sandwich on a silver platter. It’s a sad day when your best friend, lover, and husband dropped this in your lap.


Right? 

I'm willing to bet there are *tons* of husbands out there who have also had the sudden _epiphany_ that they are actually "polyamorous" and want to start dating/having sex with other women - while getting to *keep* their wife, all their financial assets, kids, house, and reputation. LOL. Yeah, I can think of a lot of guys right off the top of my head who would LOVE to do that. It's a win/win!

OP, you didn't sign up for this. Time to decide whether you're willing to settle for this or not.


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## NobodySpecial

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Right?
> 
> I'm willing to bet there are *tons* of husbands out there who have also had the sudden _epiphany_ that they are actually "polyamorous" and want to start dating/having sex with other women - while getting to *keep* their wife, all their financial assets, kids, house, and reputation. LOL. Yeah, I can think of a lot of guys right off the top of my head who would LOVE to do that.
> 
> OP, you didn't sign up for this. _Time to decide_ whether you're willing to settle for this or not.


OP I am not trying to convince you of anything. Just sharing my point of view. For myself, I don't think there is a rush to decide anything unless you are pushed. And being pushed is a Very Seriously Telling Sign. This is one that comes highly recommended though I have never read it myself

https://www.amazon.com/Ethical-****...5220&s=gateway&sprefix=ethical,aps,133&sr=8-1


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## OnTheFly

NobodySpecial said:


> Do some reading.


But, only sympathetic sources, right?

I imagine those opposed to this lifestyle are suffering from every evil "-ism"



NobodySpecial said:


> You'd be surprised.


I'd be surprised if this type of confusion didn't mess horrendously with children.


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## NobodySpecial

OnTheFly said:


> But, only sympathetic sources, right?
> 
> 
> I imagine those opposed to this lifestyle are suffering from every evil "-ism"


Well I don't know. I would *guess* that those opposed to this lifestyle are suffering from ignorance. I have not come across sources which have shown a negative impact on kids. But I am open to suggestion if you find them!



> I'd be surprised if this type of confusion didn't mess horrendously with children.


Whose confused? I mean, feel free to not read if you like.


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## OnTheFly

NobodySpecial said:


> Whose confused?


Are you a paid advocate with the PR firm Dewey, Bangem, and Howe?

You know very well I’m talking about the confusion of the children. 

After all your years of practicing this “choice”, after all the links you’ve provided, after posting a solid 1/3 of responses in this thread, I’m to believe you’ve never, ever heard or seen a negative effect on children?


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## NobodySpecial

OnTheFly said:


> Are you a paid advocate with the PR firm Dewey, Bangem, and Howe?


Nope. Just a regular old person sharing their point of view.



> You know very well I’m talking about the confusion of the children.
> 
> After all your years of practicing this “choice”, after all the links you’ve provided, after posting a solid 1/3 of responses in this thread, I’m to believe you’ve never, ever heard or seen a negative effect on children?


No more than I have any other weird marriage affects on children. Fewer actually, truth be told. But if you find other information, I am happy to read it.


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## OnTheFly

“That’s amaaaaazing!”

—Jesse Lee Peterson

Lisa, if you want to be in a consensual adulterous marriage with your husband, go nuts, but please don’t involve children.


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## Woolyjumpers

Hi Lisa,

I'm sorry to read that you are having a tough time in your marriage. 

I personally don't believe that monogamous and non-monogamous people are compatible. I couldn't personally live with a partner who wanted to practice polyamoury. I feel that you have to stick up for what you want and not allow yourself to be pushed in to a life style that will hurt you emotionally.


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## red oak

A form of polygyny, or polyamory was standard way of life in almost every culture of the world at one time and those still practicing it studied in the 16-1800's showed few mental health issues, more social cohesiveness, and altruism than the current cultural trend.

No I don't live it. I do understand it. Feel if that is someone's choice and they aren't hurting anyone leave them alone.


----------



## personofinterest

red oak said:


> A form of polygyny, or polyamory was standard way of life in almost every culture of the world at one time and those still practicing it studied in the 16-1800's showed few mental health issues, more social cohesiveness, and altruism than the current cultural trend.
> 
> No I don't live it. I do understand it. Feel if that is someone's choice and they aren't hurting anyone leave them alone.


If I had a set of couple friends who explored, talked, ventured into this together, I might not "get" it, but I wouldn't bash or judge. It would be a together journey.

If one of my friend's husbands "announced" to her he realized he was polyamorous, and so he was gonna explore other women, and he implied that she better be on board cause it was happening whether she liked him or not.....yeah, I'd tell her what an ass her hubby was.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> If I had a set of couple friends who explored, talked, ventured into this together, I might not "get" it, but I wouldn't bash or judge. It would be a together journey.
> 
> If one of my friend's husbands "announced" to her he realized he was polyamorous, and so he was gonna explore other women, and *he implied that she better be on board cause it was happening whether she liked him* or not.....yeah, I'd tell her what an ass her hubby was.


OP's husband said that? OP, Run don't WALK away from this.


----------



## SpinyNorman

personofinterest said:


> If I had a set of couple friends who explored, talked, ventured into this together, I might not "get" it, but I wouldn't bash or judge. It would be a together journey.
> 
> If one of my friend's husbands "announced" to her he realized he was polyamorous, and so he was gonna explore other women, and he implied that she better be on board cause it was happening whether she liked him or not.....yeah, I'd tell her what an ass her hubby was.





NobodySpecial said:


> OP's husband said that? OP, Run don't WALK away from this.


Of course OP didn't say this. This is TAM, and what people post is irrelevant compared to stupid crap people pretend they said. If only this forum had a quote button...


----------



## frusdil

OP I am heartbroken for you. You did NOT sign up for this.

If this happened to me, my husband would have two choices:

1 - Forget the whole idea

or

2 - Divorce

I would not be interested in this at all, I signed on for a life time, monogamous marriage. I would not be reading up on anything, or "educating" myself. It simply wouldn't be happening.

If other people live this way that's their business, I don't judge them, it doesn't affect me at all. But in MY marriage, hell no.


----------



## personofinterest

frusdil said:


> OP I am heartbroken for you. You did NOT sign up for this.
> 
> If this happened to me, my husband would have two choices:
> 
> 1 - Forget the whole idea
> 
> or
> 
> 2 - Divorce
> 
> I would not be interested in this at all, I signed on for a life time, monogamous marriage. I would not be reading up on anything, or "educating" myself. It simply wouldn't be happening.
> 
> If other people live this way that's their business, I don't judge them, it doesn't affect me at all. But in MY marriage, hell no.


Yep.


----------



## personofinterest

SpinyNorman said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I had a set of couple friends who explored, talked, ventured into this together, I might not "get" it, but I wouldn't bash or judge. It would be a together journey.
> 
> If one of my friend's husbands "announced" to her he realized he was polyamorous, and so he was gonna explore other women, and he implied that she better be on board cause it was happening whether she liked him or not.....yeah, I'd tell her what an ass her hubby was.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> 
> OP's husband said that? OP, Run don't WALK away from this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Of course OP didn't say this. This is TAM, and what people post is irrelevant compared to stupid crap people pretend they said. If only this forum had a quote button...
Click to expand...

So, sweet spiny, I take it you're polyamorous too?


----------



## NobodySpecial

SpinyNorman said:


> Of course OP didn't say this. This is TAM, and what people post is irrelevant compared to stupid crap people pretend they said. If only this forum had a quote button...


This triggered a thought from long, long ago. DH and I were both in the habit of inferring a lot that was not intended. For us, the sticky issue that was on the table was domesticity and responsibility. We were packaging a lot of stuff that was not intended into what was being said. @ecoylisa, you say your DH is your best friend. One thought. Regardless of the issue, really HEARING him vs. applying your filter to his words. Good luck!


----------



## Andy1001

personofinterest said:


> Exactly. I understand the inclination to defend a lifestyle choice, but this man's motives are so transparent one would have to be intentionally blind not to see it.


A few weeks ago on another forum a woman was asking for advice. Her fiancé had rung her two nights earlier and broken up(he was on a two week trip for work at the time).
The next morning he rang her back,apologizing profusely and saying he was drunk and didn’t mean it when he said he wanted to break up so she took him back. However, another person who was on the trip told her that her fiancé had been flirting with another woman all week and had spent the night in her hotel room at least once. 
She asked her fiancé had he slept with the other woman and his answer was it was none of her business,he had broken up with her at the time!
The op’s husband reminds me of this guy.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Andy1001 said:


> A few weeks ago on another forum a woman was asking for advice. Her fiancé had rung her two nights earlier and broken up(he was on a two week trip for work at the time).
> The next morning he rang her back,apologizing profusely and saying he was drunk and didn’t mean it when he said he wanted to break up so she took him back. However, another person who was on the trip told her that her fiancé had been flirting with another woman all week and had spent the night in her hotel room at least once.
> She asked her fiancé had he slept with the other woman and his answer was it was none of her business,he had broken up with her at the time!
> The op’s husband reminds me of this guy.


I wonder why anyone bothers to get married. Can no one actually listen to what their spouse is actually saying? We here all the time "not all men" do this or that. But one can be condemned readily enough for the actions of others.


----------



## red oak

@ecoylisa since you have said you are best friends your husband has shown trust, courage and faith to even mention it to you. Most men would be to scared of the backlash, as seen her to even mention it.

Marriage is often negated by a control aspect.

Our spouse is supposed to be our best friend. BUT, how often do we see a man get a knee jerk reaction of rejection for looking at porn, or belittlement from simply looking at another woman on the street.

We often, more accepting, and treat friends better than spouses. We are more likely to listen sympathetically to a friend than a spouse.

Just go back and read most of the responses on this thread.

Marriage was a union of woman to man.
Saying didn't sign up for this, or that. Time to move on if he won't forget it. 
Is this not controlling behavior?

It is your marriage and something you may choose to do if so inclined. 
He shouldn't be attempting to force your acceptance, however, since you have said you're best friends this doesn't seem to be what's taking place.


----------



## NobodySpecial

red oak said:


> @ecoylisa since you have said you are best friends your husband has shown trust, courage and faith to even mention it to you. Most men (_people_) would be too scared of the backlash, as seen here to even mention it.


I was thinking *the exact same thing*. 



> Marriage is often negated by a control aspect.


My brain hurts at how you thought the exact same thing I was. I have been cogitating on writing a post on what I think of as opportunities for intimacy.



> Our spouse is supposed to be our best friend. BUT, how often do we see a man get a knee jerk reaction of rejection for looking at porn, or belittlement from simply looking at another woman on the street.
> 
> We often, more accepting, and treat friends better than spouses. We are more likely to listen sympathetically to a friend than a spouse.
> 
> Just go back and read most of the responses on this thread.
> 
> Marriage was a union of woman to man.
> Saying didn't sign up for this, or that. Time to move on if he won't forget it.
> Is this not controlling behavior?
> 
> It is your marriage and something you may choose to do if so inclined.
> He shouldn't be attempting to force your acceptance, however, since you have said you're best friends this doesn't seem to be what's taking place.


There is risk that people don't understand (no foul since it just has not occurred to them) to telling someone to just forget it. The risk is that person shutting down and fearing genuine conversation. You do not have to accept polyamory in your life. But it would be wise to listen to your DH with an open mind. Months and years go by and you wonder where the closeness went and where the feels went.


----------



## personofinterest

I imagine this scenario:

Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.

How does THIS conversation proceed?

Because the two situations are VERY analogius.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I imagine this scenario:
> 
> Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.
> 
> How does THIS conversation proceed?
> 
> Because the two situations are VERY analogius.





personofinterest said:


> I imagine this scenario:
> 
> Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.
> 
> How does THIS conversation proceed?
> 
> Because the two situations are VERY analogius.


I think almost any conversation can be analogous. But your example is good. Start with how the conversation does not go. I can't believe you want to be a CHRISTIAN!! It goes against everything we stand for!! Get right, or get out! Even if ending the marriage is where they wind up, that route is just all pain and ruin. 

The way the conversation could go would include what Mr/Mrs Christian thinks and feels. What Mr/Mrs Atheist things and feels. And then what Mr/Mrs Christian feels that they want to do and they feel they must do and what is optional. If they have had success at tough convos in the past, now is the time to bring out their best reflexive summation techniques and the like. Action options can be listed and a decision made.

That actually worked well for us when DH decided he was an atheist well before I did.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine this scenario:
> 
> Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.
> 
> How does THIS conversation proceed?
> 
> Because the two situations are VERY analogius.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine this scenario:
> 
> Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.
> 
> How does THIS conversation proceed?
> 
> Because the two situations are VERY analogius.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think almost any conversation can be analogous. But your example is good. Start with how the conversation does not go. I can't believe you want to be a CHRISTIAN!! It goes against everything we stand for!! Get right, or get out! Even if ending the marriage is where they wind up, that route is just all pain and ruin.
> 
> The way the conversation could go would include what Mr/Mrs Christian thinks and feels. What Mr/Mrs Atheist things and feels. And then what Mr/Mrs Christian feels that they want to do and they feel they must do and what is optional. If they have had success at tough convos in the past, now is the time to bring out their best reflexive summation techniques and the like. Action options can be listed and a decision made.
> 
> That actually worked well for us when DH decided he was an atheist well before I did.
Click to expand...

That makes perfect sense. I would also add that there should be no judgement if the atheist doesn't want to follow the Christian's path. Because it was the Christian who decided to change the "rules."


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> That makes perfect sense. I would also add that there should be no judgement if the atheist doesn't want to follow the Christian's path. Because it was the Christian who decided to change the "rules."


You won't get any argument from me about lack of judgement -- even rules changes notwithstanding. I don't see much use in rules. But even less in judgement. In fact, the flip side of well I AM (associate as, identify as) poly means I MUST and you MUST allow me is equally not ok.


----------



## SpinyNorman

personofinterest said:


> So, sweet spiny, I take it you're polyamorous too?


Wouldn't you like to know.

Please don't thead jack, TS has a difficult situation.


----------



## SpinyNorman

personofinterest said:


> I imagine this scenario:
> 
> Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.
> 
> How does THIS conversation proceed?
> 
> Because the two situations are VERY analogius.


A difference I see is that they probably didn't take a vow to remain atheists, whereas most couples take a vow to remain monogamous.

If TS decides polyamory isn't for her, I think she is justified to insist H stay monogamous, or leave. 

OTOH if someone said their spouse changed religions and wanted them to go to a service, my advice would be, go along if and only if you feel like it, but don't try to change your spouse and don't leave them just b/c of their religion.


----------



## personofinterest

SpinyNorman said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I imagine this scenario:
> 
> Two atheists marry. One becomes a Christian years later and wants them to go to First Baptist Church together.
> 
> How does THIS conversation proceed?
> 
> Because the two situations are VERY analogius.
> 
> 
> 
> A difference I see is that they probably didn't take a vow to remain atheists, whereas most couples take a vow to remain monogamous.
> 
> If TS decides polyamory isn't for her, I think she is justified to insist H stay monogamous, or leave.
> 
> OTOH if someone said their spouse changed religions and wanted them to go to a service, my advice would be, go along if and only if you feel like it, but don't try to change your spouse and don't leave them just b/c of their religion.
Click to expand...

Yep.


----------



## red oak

SpinyNorman said:


> A difference I see is that they probably didn't take a vow to remain atheists, whereas most couples take a vow to remain monogamous.
> 
> If TS decides polyamory isn't for her, I think she is justified to insist H stay monogamous, or leave.
> 
> OTOH if someone said their spouse changed religions and wanted them to go to a service, my advice would be, go along if and only if you feel like it, but don't try to change your spouse and don't leave them just b/c of their religion.


Not neccasairyl at you spiny. Just thinking outloud per se'?
Have vows changed?
Ours were very similar to this. 

wilt thou have this man to be thy husband, and wilt thou pledge thy faith to him, in all love and honor, in all duty and service, in all faith and tenderness, to love, honor, obey, and to live with him, cherish him, according to the ordinance of God, in the holy bond of marriage?"

"I, ______, take you, ______, to be my husband, and I do promise and covenant, before God and these witnesses, to be your loving and faithful wife, in plenty and want, in joy and in sorrow, in sickness and in health, as long as we both shall live."

Mine didn't have the obey part and had to treat with understanding.

Where does it come from all vows promise monogamy? I've only seen 2 after a precursory search.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

ecoylisa said:


> I am very thankful for all the comments and perspectives left. As you can imagine, these thoughts have, at once, cleared my mind about some things, gave me possible paths to choose from and muddled up some things i thought i knew. I will be considering dearly. And will definitely let you guys know about my decisions and thought. I definitely need to be less emotionally dependent on him. And yes, i did mean polyamory (I looked it up).


How long did you two date before getting married? How long have you been married? Your ages? Do you have children? When you dated and got married was monogamy clearly understood to be what you both were agreeing too? 

I ask to get an idea of where you two are on the arc of life experience wise.

I am going to assume that your husbands request was a surprise to you. I am also going to state that in my experience when a spouse starts talking about opening up a monogamous marriage they already have opened the marriage unbeknownst to their partner or at the least have someone or some scenario in mind. 

You stated the following earlier: "but i can't truthfully say that he should chase his happiness of fulfillment of his desires. What do i do?"

When I read that I think to myself what is it that YOU want and expect in your marriage? Because he is clearly thinking only about himself and his needs and desires. You are emotionally connected to him and he clearly desires another emotional connection and or sex with someone else under the guise of an emotional connection. 

You don't have to agree to this if it is not right for you. You CAN actually say he should chase his happiness and fulfillment of desires - just not with you, that is not what you signed up for. 

Your husband is expressing he wants to change the rules of your marriage and I guess would like you to go along with it. You don't have to if you don't want to. 

Have you asked him why he is bringing this up ? I am assuming he never did before. Why now?


----------



## frusdil

NobodySpecial said:


> There is risk that people don't understand (no foul since it just has not occurred to them) to telling someone to just forget it. The risk is that person shutting down and fearing genuine conversation. You do not have to accept polyamory in your life. But it would be wise to listen to your DH with an open mind. Months and years go by and you wonder where the closeness went and where the feels went.


Nope, sorry. And to the person who said about control. I would not be controlling my husband at all, he is free to do as he chooses, it's just that there are certain choices he could make that would cause me to walk. In this case, if he wants to be polyamorous, have at it, he just won't be married to me anymore.


----------



## NobodySpecial

frusdil said:


> Nope, sorry. And to the person who said about control. I would not be controlling my husband at all, he is free to do as he chooses, it's just that there are certain choices he could make that would cause me to walk. In this case, if he wants to be polyamorous, have at it, he just won't be married to me anymore.


To be clear, I am not arguing with your PoV , thoughts or feelings. WHat you are saying is perfectly normal. I just want to be clear about what I was saying since I think you might have misunderstood. 

I am not talking about actions, about one obtaining other lovers... The risk I am talking about is the risk of shutting down ones spouses willingness to share their own thoughts and feelings. Like any risk, it may not be a problem. Oh ha ha, she thinks THAT is a dumb idea, moving right along. Or it might be a situation where the person, consciously or unconsciously, concludes that being genuine and honest is not safe for them. That is limiting to intimacy.

An example from my life. DH was reallllly hesitant to tell me that not only did he not believe in god but that my church going bothered him. Not that I went or that I thought or felt whatever. But that he feared he had to hide his own views from me to protect MY PoV. That lack of being himself wore on him. And he had a really hard time broaching the subject of kids. For a long time he just did not share what he thought of things. When topics came up that he disagreed with, he just remained mum. When he finally did broach the subject, it did not change a darned thing. It did not really need to. But the gates became open for us to talk with genuine honesty about this difficult topic of difference. ANd that, by itself, was good.

Maybe you do understand it. Maybe one of your lines in the sand is that you would not want to be with someone who even thought that way. And that is totally cool.


----------



## Laurentium

NobodySpecial said:


> The risk I am talking about is the risk of shutting down ones spouses willingness to share their own thoughts and feelings. ...
> 
> An example from my life. ... he feared he had to hide his own views from me to protect MY PoV. That lack of being himself wore on him.


Yes. This is a major problem, and widespread. The shock of realising there are two different minds here, and how we cope with that. I agree strongly. 

Where I am coming from with polyamory (and I could be wrong, I have no personal experience, happy to learn, etc etc) is that in our society, is kind of assumed that many, perhaps even most, men would be willing, nay, even happy, to have multiple sexual partners. "Polyamory" as a desire is not a different orientation for a man, it's assumed to be the norm. So when a man raises this subject, he is not saying "I have learned something new about myself", (as if he had gained religion), he is saying "I am wondering about no longer abiding by the deal we made". That can still be a basis for a conversation: "... and how do you feel about it?" But to me poly is not an orientation or a preference; it's an agreement. Is it or is it not OK to do X, Y, and Z? So when a man brings this up, it's not as if he were saying "I've realised I'm bi" or "I've realised I'm a cross dresser", which can hardly be argued with! It's more like the opening of a renegotiation. But you've been there. Tell me (kindly) if I'm wrong.


----------



## personofinterest

"Where does it come from all vows promise monogamy? I've only seen 2 after a precursory search."

Ummm....I'm assuming that Thou shalt not commit adultery probably made that clear.


----------



## Laurentium

personofinterest said:


> "Where does it come from all vows promise monogamy? I've only seen 2 after a precursory search."
> 
> Ummm....I'm assuming that Thou shalt not commit adultery probably made that clear.


Ours generally include the words "forsaking all other"


----------



## Tasorundo

Isn't there a line where a partner should not feel comfortable sharing thoughts and feelings? I mean, if your spouse is sharing something they know will upset you and forever change the dynamics of the relationship, it would be on them to decide how and when to present that.

They should also understand there are consequences to sharing that information, and once it is said, it cannot be rebottled.

The idea that a partner should feel comfortable with saying "Hey, I want to redo the entire way we live our lives, cool?" is absurd. It should be talked about after extensive soul searching, research, and counsel.


----------



## personofinterest

Tasorundo said:


> Isn't there a line where a partner should not feel comfortable sharing thoughts and feelings? I mean, if your spouse is sharing something they know will upset you and forever change the dynamics of the relationship, it would be on them to decide how and when to present that.
> 
> They should also understand there are consequences to sharing that information, and once it is said, it cannot be rebottled.
> 
> The idea that a partner should feel comfortable with saying "Hey, I want to redo the entire way we live our lives, cool?" is absurd. It should be talked about after extensive soul searching, research, and counsel.


Very true.

However, this runs so counter to the "if I feel it and want it I should have it" worldview that the person who is uncomfortable with it is passively regarded as some sort of closed minded bigot.

If expecting my husband to forsake all others like he vowed before God and family makes me unenlightened and less counterculture hip, so be it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Laurentium said:


> Yes. This is a major problem, and widespread. The shock of realising there are two different minds here, and how we cope with that. I agree strongly.
> 
> Where I am coming from with polyamory (and I could be wrong, I have no personal experience, happy to learn, etc etc) is that in our society, is kind of assumed that many, perhaps even most, men would be willing, nay, even happy, to have multiple sexual partners. "Polyamory" as a desire is not a different orientation for a man, it's assumed to be the norm. So when a man raises this subject, he is not saying "I have learned something new about myself", (as if he had gained religion), he is saying "I am wondering about no longer abiding by the deal we made". That can still be a basis for a conversation: "... and how do you feel about it?" But to me poly is not an orientation or a preference; it's an agreement. Is it or is it not OK to do X, Y, and Z? So when a man brings this up, it's not as if he were saying "I've realised I'm bi" or "I've realised I'm a cross dresser", which can hardly be argued with! It's more like the opening of a renegotiation. But you've been there. Tell me (kindly) if I'm wrong.


Well, yah, not sure you are wrong. But you are definitely not right.  Some people do feel as if it is a love style association. It is definitely more than just -- I don't like the rules.

poly - much many (Greek)
amor - love (Latin) ... we joke as much about the affront of having a term that mixes Latin and Greek and how nice it would be to have a partner just to have someone to choose where we are eating dinner more than we fret about sex.

The focus on dude wanting to bang more people makes sense from a mainstream perspective. But it is the most reviled attitude in the communities of which I have been a part - whether swinging, open or poly. Negotiation is a necessary part of making sure everyone is taken care of, it is not The Thing. I don't even know how to respond to this. When a person brings this up, it is often very much like I've realized that I feel and think differently about love and sex than I had previously. For some, it may be accompanied by non-hetero experimentation thoughts. But, from what I have witnessed and experienced myself, it is a thought altering thing. Like wooaaaa, loving one person does not take away from the available love bucket from someone else. Love is not a commodity of limited volume which gets used up or need be applied only to one person.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> Very true.
> 
> However, this runs so counter to the "if I feel it and want it I should have it" worldview that the person who is uncomfortable with it is passively regarded as some sort of closed minded bigot.


Did someone say that? I sure would have a hard time agreeing with that person.


----------



## Laurentium

personofinterest said:


> If expecting my husband to forsake all others like he vowed before God and family makes me unenlightened and less counterculture hip, so be it.


I couldn't do it. But I think you may be slightly straw-manning the other viewpoint.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> Isn't there a line where a partner should not feel comfortable sharing thoughts and feelings? I mean, if your spouse is sharing something they know will upset you and forever change the dynamics of the relationship, it would be on them to decide how and when to present that.
> 
> They should also understand there are consequences to sharing that information, and once it is said, it cannot be rebottled.
> 
> The idea that a partner should feel comfortable with saying "Hey, I want to redo the entire way we live our lives, cool?" is absurd. It should be talked about after extensive soul searching, research, and counsel.





Tasorundo said:


> Isn't there a line where a partner should not feel comfortable sharing thoughts and feelings? I mean, if your spouse is sharing something they know will upset you and forever change the dynamics of the relationship, it would be on them to decide how and when to present that.


Well that is up to them, isn't it? I would not put it in the "should" category. I actually like the fact that my husband feels he can be fully himself and that he does not feel he has to protect me from upset. And he feels the same. It seems to us to be the very heart of intimacy.



> They should also understand there are consequences to sharing that information, and once it is said, it cannot be rebottled.


True dat. Cats often cannot be put back in their bags. Where does that expression even come from? Kind of depressing. Worth the risk? You know, you don't get to know that in advance. That is the nature of risk. 



> The idea that a partner should feel comfortable with saying "Hey, I want to redo the entire way we live our lives, cool?" is absurd. It should be talked about after extensive soul searching, research, and counsel.


I, for one, never said they "should" feel that way. But I do feel that for many of us taking that risk was well worth it. Personally, I am grateful that I can do my soul searching and research WITH my husband, as is he with me.


----------



## Laurentium

NobodySpecial said:


> Well, yah, not sure you are wrong. But you are definitely not right.


Excellent! I like that. 



> When a person brings this up, it is often very much like I've realized that I feel and think differently about love and sex than I had previously. For some, it may be accompanied by non-hetero experimentation thoughts. But, from what I have witnessed and experienced myself, it is a thought altering thing. Like wooaaaa, loving one person does not take away from the available love bucket from someone else. Love is not a commodity of limited volume which gets used up or need be applied only to one person.


Thank you for that. I am sure "love" is not the real issue either. 

I guess a part of "the problem" is the lack of support and understanding from society at large?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Laurentium said:


> I couldn't do it. But I think you may be slightly straw-manning the other viewpoint.


There is a desire to castigate this lifestyle with whatever means necessary, including complete dishonesty. Meh. It is what it is.


----------



## Laurentium

NobodySpecial said:


> There is a desire to castigate this lifestyle with whatever means necessary, including complete dishonesty. Meh. It is what it is.


Well, okay, but that can play the other way too!


----------



## NobodySpecial

Laurentium said:


> Excellent! I like that.


 Believe it or not, I have no particular agenda to front. I am just sharing my PoV.



> Thank you for that. I am sure "love" is not the real issue either.


I don't understand what you mean by that.



> I guess a part of "the problem" is the lack of support and understanding from society at large?


The problem for whom? Let's take the OP as an example. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that OP's husband is straight up. We don't really have enough info to assume that at this point. But let's assume it for the sake of example. I think the lack of understanding from society at large probably would be a problem for him. For those of us who have accepted some of these premises as our truths, how big a problem society is is dependent on how much they value acceptance in general. I couldn't care one whit. But some people do, I guess.


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## NobodySpecial

Laurentium said:


> Well, okay, but that can play the other way too!


Sure. Do you see that happening here?


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## Laurentium

NobodySpecial said:


> Sure. Do you see that happening here?


Here, no.


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## Tasorundo

I don't feel that anyone is being castigated here. People are commenting based off of what is a common occurrence. The number of happy poly relationships compared to the number of guys that want to bang lots of chicks is pretty low.

If anyone is being castigated, it is the OP or her man for not fully explaining the situation.

I guess you could also say that you are castigating people, for jumping to the most common conclusion instead of jumping to the least likely scenario of him really understanding and wanting a happy poly marriage.


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## Laurentium

NobodySpecial said:


> I am sure "love" is not the real issue either.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand what you mean by that.
Click to expand...

As always, lots of "tell me if I'm wrong" etc because I'm speculating: what I meant was that if someone has concerns about their partner having another partner, the concern probably isn't really about there not being enough love to go round. You said something about a finite "love bucket". I doubt if that's what's worrying people. 

It's more likely to be about honesty, or availability. Will they tell me honestly about what's going on for them? Will they come if I call? Can I count on them? Or will they always be weighing their obligations to their other partner(s)? 

Not that these problems are insoluble. I just doubted that the "finite love bucket" is what's worrying them.


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## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> I don't feel that anyone is being castigated here. People are commenting based off of what is a common occurrence. The number of happy poly relationships compared to the number of guys that want to bang lots of chicks is pretty low.


I am sorry. I can't agree with any of the statements you made here. In this thread, there are people who have accused me, really the only person with this different point of view, of being superior. Not the exact word. I can't remember. Um, trying to remember the other one, female of this mind is ... not defending, "justifying" as if it is known to be wrong but I am twisting myself in knots to make myself think it is ok. In-arguably bad for children despite evidence to the contrary... Shrug. It is what it is. It is the same for any view that does not conform to the mainstream. I got worse on another board for homeschooling!



> If anyone is being castigated, it is the OP or her man for not fully explaining the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you could also say that you are castigating people, for jumping to the most common conclusion instead of jumping to the least likely scenario of him really understanding and wanting a happy poly marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> I can't share that opinion. I did not castigate anyone for their opinion. I don't share your assumption of the rates of happy poly relationships nor the likelihood of the scenario being real. But I mostly shared my PoV and responded when people said things experientially, demonstrably wrong in their assumptions about poly.
> 
> If anyone feels castigated by me for their choice, I apologize. I certainly did not intend it.
Click to expand...


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## NobodySpecial

Laurentium said:


> As always, lots of "tell me if I'm wrong" etc because I'm speculating: what I meant was that if someone has concerns about their partner having another partner, the concern probably isn't really about there not being enough love to go round. You said something about a finite "love bucket". I doubt if that's what's worrying people.
> 
> It's more likely to be about honesty, or availability. Will they tell me honestly about what's going on for them? Will they come if I call? Can I count on them? Or will they always be weighing their obligations to their other partner(s)?
> 
> Not that these problems are insoluble. I just doubted that the "finite love bucket" is what's worrying them.


All of the above, actually. But here's the thing. They WILL be weighing their obligation to their other partner(s), as will YOU. And that is ok. Even good.


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## personofinterest

Laurentium said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> If expecting my husband to forsake all others like he vowed before God and family makes me unenlightened and less counterculture hip, so be it.
> 
> 
> 
> I couldn't do it. But I think you may be slightly straw-manning the other viewpoint.
Click to expand...

Oh I am. But not by a lot. And 5 or 10 years from now....maybe not at all.

I would be interested to know what the OP TRULY thinks of sharing her husband, his happiness notwithstanding.


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## MattMatt

Me being cynical for a moment will posit this viewpoint:-

When a spouse says: "Honey, I want to be polyamorous" are they perhaps _really_ saying:

"I want more ****! And I want more and different ****!"?

Because if they _didn't_ want more **** and different ****, surly they would not need relationships outside the marriage? :scratchhead:


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> Oh I am. But not by a lot. And 5 or 10 years from now....maybe not at all.
> 
> *I would be interested to know what the OP TRULY thinks of sharing her husband*, his happiness notwithstanding.


While I might not have put it this way, this is the key thing for her to understand.


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## Tasorundo

Perhaps you are hyper sensitive to feeling castigated.

People disagree with your life-style. People feel that it is bad for children. Saying so isn't a castigation, whether you feel it is or not.

Here is your second post on this thread:

Sigh - Bear in mind that this is a VERY conservative board with a LOT of people who never processed their own marriages many of which include infidelity. This is not the best place to get understanding.​
Seems to be kinda castigating, doesn't it? I mean, you not only paint conservative as bad, you then accuse them of not being able to process their own marriages. Which, also paints you as 'enlightened and superior'. Also, starting with 'Sigh' as if it is beneath you and troubling to have to even discuss this (a topic you entered into discussing) is also belittling.

2nd page you say this:

I don't know what to tell you. It works for a LOT of people regardless of what it "sounds like".​
I understand it works for people, lots of things work for people that are outside of the norm or are unhealthy (I am not saying poly is unhealthy, just an example). What you fail to ever do, is give credence to the thought that it absolutely also does NOT work for some people. That there are not fields littered with the corpses of poly/swinging/hotwife marriages is not really being honest.

The fields are littered with corpses of 'traditional' marriages as well, but we are not pretending those don't exist here.


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## NobodySpecial

MattMatt said:


> Me being cynical for a moment will posit this viewpoint:-
> 
> When a spouse says: "Honey, I want to be polyamorous" are they perhaps _really_ saying:
> 
> "I want more ****! And I want more and different ****!"?
> 
> Because if they _didn't_ want more **** and different ****, surly they would not need relationships outside the marriage? :scratchhead:


I just had a thought. If relationship is all about sex for poly, meaning what else is there but more and different, what does that say about sex in a marriage? It's just nothing but same and same? I don't see it that way.


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## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> Perhaps you are hyper sensitive to feeling castigated.
> 
> People disagree with your life-style. People feel that it is bad for children. Saying so isn't a castigation, whether you feel it is or not.


Fair enough. Thanks.



> Here is your second post on this thread:
> 
> Sigh - Bear in mind that this is a VERY conservative board with a LOT of people who never processed their own marriages many of which include infidelity. This is not the best place to get understanding.​
> Seems to be kinda castigating, doesn't it? I mean, you not only paint conservative as bad, you then accuse them of not being able to process their own marriages. Which, also paints you as 'enlightened and superior'. Also, starting with 'Sigh' as if it is beneath you and troubling to have to even discuss this (a topic you entered into discussing) is also belittling.


Gotcha. Don't agree. But I hear what you are saying. People are strange, myself included.


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## Tasorundo

Sigh - How could you not agree that even starting a post with a sigh is belittling.


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## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> *Sigh *- How could you not agree that even starting a post with a sigh is belittling.


Well, I don't agree that what I said - that being conservative renders conservationism "bad". All I meant by that is it is a community unlikely to have much knowledge of the situation the OP was in. My objection to the comments about kids was not that people think it but that it is inarguable despite evidence to the contrary. That people felt belittled I do not argue. Inferences made that were not implied. If standing by my opinions somehow makes me more "superior" than other people who do the same, so be it.


ETA: Tee hee. I see what you did there! The sigh was recognition that this topic is contentious. That is all. You may attribute whatever motives to me that you like, however!


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## MattMatt

Tasorundo said:


> Sigh - How could you not agree that even starting a post with a sigh is belittling.


They have to start their post with a sigh, because other members on the board can't see them do this:-


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## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Tasorundo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh - How could you not agree that even starting a post with a sigh is belittling.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I don't agree that what I said - that being conservative renders conservationism "bad". All I meant by that is it is a community unlikely to have much knowledge of the situation the OP was in. My objection to the comments about kids was not that people think it but that it is inarguable despite evidence to the contrary. That people felt belittled I do not argue. Inferences made that were not implied. If standing by my opinions somehow makes me more "superior" than other people who do the same, so be it.
Click to expand...

I wonder if we (I say we because I'm included) have an unconscious sensitivity because of the current culture at large of "if you don't celebrate my X" you are phobic/bigoted/less enlightened," and we are projecting that condescension onto your words even though you personally don't feel that way?

Kind of like a person who has encountered 1000 obnoxious young earth, flat earth Christian's that they brace for an eye roll any time a Christian's enters the scene.

Not sure if that makes sense. But I realize I may be reacting to an annoying societal attitude rather than really hearing YOU, NS, the individual. 

Which is not only u fair, it's something I hate being done to me. I'm sorry about that.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I wonder if we (I say we because I'm included) have an unconscious sensitivity because of the current culture at large of "if you don't celebrate my X" you are phobic/bigoted/less enlightened," and we are projecting that condescension onto your words even though you personally don't feel that way?


Maybe. 



> Kind of like a person who has encountered 1000 obnoxious young earth, flat earth Christian's that they brace for an eye roll any time a Christian's enters the scene.


Yup. Could be.



> Not sure if that makes sense. But I realize I may be reacting to an annoying societal attitude rather than really hearing YOU, NS, the individual.
> 
> Which is not only u fair, it's something I hate being done to me. I'm sorry about that.


Make a lot of sense to me. Thanks for that observation and honest introspection.


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## personofinterest

I wish I didnt have to take the long way around through icky to get to epiphany.


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## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I wish I didnt have to take the long way around through icky to get to epiphany.


lol. Is that even possible?


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## BluesPower

Well what an interesting thread... for a lot of reasons. 

I wish OP would come back and tell us how it is going. 

On the poly, and other choices and preferences I think we should all take a deep breath. 

For me, I have had multiple casual (somewhat loving) relationships at a time in my life. I would not say that I am poly, but I am not saying that I am not. 

Now at this time in my life, with these women, I liked them, we hung out, dated to an extent, but it was understood that I was not going to get committed at a high level with anyone. They initially felt the same way and it was all cool. 

As sometime happens with this situations, one or more of the other people wanted more and I did not so it ended. 

Then later I started to want to have a serious relationship, so I did that. 

Now with Current GF, she is traditional, it totally not in to anything alternative in any way. Those are her boundaries and I am completely fine.

Our sex is wonderful, I personally have had enough variety and really don't feel the need for more, and I do not fell that anything is lacking in our relationship sexually or in terms of intimacy. 

However for me, this is one of the most intimate fulfilling relationships that I have ever been in and I am completely happy. 

I don't know what that says about me as far as tendencies but I do understand the concept of poly and or open and or swinging in general. And I am not saying that I am opposed to any of those situations at a base level.

I am saying that I am totally fulfilled and happy where I am at and at this point in my life I feel that I really don't lack for anything that I am aware of. 

I do hope that Op tells us how she is going overall if she wants too.


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## SpinyNorman

red oak said:


> Not neccasairyl at you spiny. Just thinking outloud per se'?
> Have vows changed?
> Ours were very similar to this.
> 
> wilt thou have this man to be thy husband, and wilt thou pledge thy faith to him, in all love and honor, in all duty and service, in all faith and tenderness, to love, honor, obey, and to live with him, cherish him, according to the ordinance of God, in the holy bond of marriage?"
> 
> "I, ______, take you, ______, to be my husband, and I do promise and covenant, before God and these witnesses, to be your loving and faithful wife, in plenty and want, in joy and in sorrow, in sickness and in health, as long as we both shall live."
> 
> Mine didn't have the obey part and had to treat with understanding.
> 
> Where does it come from all vows promise monogamy? I've only seen 2 after a precursory search.


I admit I didn't do any research before saying most of us pledged monogamy, so I may be wrong about that. But I did not say all vows promise monogamy.


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## Edmund

I think Lisa is long gone. She was probably bored to death with this massive thread jack. I also think people shoud stop picking on NobodySpecial just because her views are unconventional. I don't always agree with her but she does add a different perspective.


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## red oak

SpinyNorman said:


> I admit I didn't do any research before saying most of us pledged monogamy, so I may be wrong about that. But I did not say all vows promise monogamy.


Wasn't necessarily referring to you. 
Saw many posting about it, I had to go back and look at ours. 
Yours just happened to be the closest one referring to it.


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## SpinyNorman

Edmund said:


> I think Lisa is long gone. She was probably bored to death with this massive thread jack. I also think people shoud stop picking on NobodySpecial just because her views are unconventional. I don't always agree with her but she does add a different perspective.


As jacked threads go, this one wasn't that bad. Most of the discussion was about polyamory. One poster contributed her experience, but that seems relevant to me.

I think the main reason there was little discussion of OP's situation is that we heard little about it.


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## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> Sigh - Bear in mind that this is a VERY conservative board with a LOT of people who never processed their own marriages many of which include infidelity. This is not the best place to get understanding.


Presumably you mean that most of us here actually believe in being faithful to our spouses.


----------

