# Masturbation Beats Intercourse



## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

*Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*

For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse. 

My wife died two years ago of Cancer.

We had a good relationship and masturbation was never really a problem for us.

However, now that I am single again and looking, I find this to be a challenging topic.

One woman that I dated recently had a difficult time with mutual masturbation to say the least.

I am curious to know how most women feel about this.

I have to admit that I never got it totally right either with my wife but we did OK.

To me, masturbation enhances intimacy and requires a serious level of vulnerability that can be super rewarding and allow you insights into each-other that are unparalleled!

Ideally, I think it would be really cool to see my female partner masturbate as often as she felt like it, with a viberator or without, and vice versa.

I think it could improve any relationship.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.


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## haveandhold (Jan 15, 2018)

MutualRespect said:


> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.


I am sorry for your loss


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Its hardly a loving sexual relationship is it.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Masterbation is a self centered activity, while making love, ideally, is other centered.

I can give myself a long, powerful orgasm that no man will ever be able to replicate. 

Having said that though, I would totally give them up to share an intimate relationship with a man who was devoted to me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been better than intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...


For me personally, I would not be interested in this (except as a once in a blue moon kind of thing). 

It only improves a relationship if she is super into masturbation as well.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

minimalME said:


> Masterbation is a self center activity, while making love, ideally, is other centered.
> 
> I can give myself a long, powerful orgasm that no man will ever be able to replicate.
> 
> Having said that though, I would totally give them up to share an intimate relationship with a man who was devoted to me.


Amen!

Pass the peas, the please, the pleas.

Please do me.
I will return the do.

Two people..
Not one and a limp hand.

Stop slapping yourself, giving intimacy an off-hand serve.

Getting off the bus, using the back door is not as good as having the bush driver seeing you to your destination. Pulling the door handle, helping you off.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been better than intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...



I am so sorry for your loss.

I am pretty open in this regard once trust has been established with my man. I personally love mutual masturbation as an appetizer for the main course. As foreplay. Each orgasm I have revs my engine up a little more. I tend to try to hold him off from orgasm, so I can get my fill of him (pun intended), especially if he is a "one and done" kind of guy. I am admittedly a little selfish in this regard, but the man doesn't seem to mind at all. >

The woman you are with may feel this is too far out of her comfort level with vulnerability. Levels of comfort with vulnerability exists on a spectrum depending on her own level of comfort and also the man's level of comfort. 

She may think, "He can all of me, but it comes in stages on my timeline." Be patient. Let her know you don't judge her in a negative way for expressing her sexuality. She may be more open to sharing this with you as a little more time goes on.

Or she may be one of those women who will never be comfortable with that level of vulnerability with anyone.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

MutualRespect said:


> One woman that I dated recently had a difficult time with *mutual masturbation* to say the least.


Do you mean bringing each other to climax or self-satisfaction?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

For me nothing, but nothing, beats the orgasm I get from intercourse. Not oral and certainly not masturbation. Mutual masturbation is usually something I only enjoy occasionally as part of foreplay. I'd be very unsatisfied with just masturbation be it mutual or solo.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

MJJEAN said:


> For me nothing, but nothing, beats the orgasm I get from intercourse. Not oral and certainly not masturbation. Mutual masturbation is usually something I only enjoy occasionally as part of foreplay. I'd be very unsatisfied with just masturbation be it mutual or solo.


Tell it like it is, Sister!


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> For me nothing, but nothing, beats the orgasm I get from intercourse. Not oral and certainly not masturbation. Mutual masturbation is usually something I only enjoy occasionally as part of foreplay. I'd be very unsatisfied with just masturbation be it mutual or solo.


I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> For me nothing, but nothing, beats the orgasm I get from intercourse.


Go on, kick it up a notch, simultaneous ones from intercourse are best. We were usually around 80% of the time with simul-cums, one person's O would trigger the other's. Alas, she can't cum from PiV anymore.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


Not rare.

The statistics say about 25% of ladies cannot 'O" from PIV alone. Dunno.
Do whatever it takes. Be happy.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


That's okay, Sister. You are not broken. Nothing is "wrong" with you! Never let anyone convince you otherwise. Some women don't have orgasm from intercourse, and that doesn't make them any less of a woman or any less sexual or any less passionate or any less skilled. You know your own body and what works for you. That is awesome! You are awesome!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


You aren't alone. Something like 70% of women say they cannot reach orgasm from PIV alone and need clitoral stimulation to get there. 

Thankfully, I can reach orgasm from intercourse alone and also from oral and manual stimulation. For me, the orgasm from PIV is the most intense, longest lasting, and most satisfying. I see oral and manual as fun foreplay or something to tide me over til we can have sex.

Our OP said that he finds manual orgasms to be better than sex. He mentions his last partner had a "difficult time with mutual masturbation, to say the least". If she's anything like me, she needs actual sex to feel satisfied and would prefer a partner who also found actual sex to be the most satisfying option. It would seem OP is sexually compatible with women who also prefer masturbation and incompatible with women who prefer sex.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

CharlieParker said:


> Go on, kick it up a notch, simultaneous ones from intercourse are best. We were usually around 80% of the time with simul-cums, one person's O would trigger the other's. Alas, she can't cum from PiV anymore.


Oh, yes, simultaneous are fairly amazing! I'd never had spontaneous simultaneous until DH and just...wow. Also averaging about 80% simultaneous orgasms (at the end, I usually have 1 or more before that point) with the rest being me orgasming first and him shortly after, which sometimes causes me to orgasm again. Now I don't know how I could live without it, lol.

At a silly party some old friends, a few family members, and I were drinking and playing darts. Someone tossed out an open question. "What happened to the best sex of your life?" My response was "I married it!"


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

Question updated to reflect my point of view about some of the concerns here. Thanks so much for all of the wonderful information.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


So you don't misunderstand, I didn't "like" your post for any other reason than to say, same here. Oddly enough, it has never bothered me because I orgasm through other means, with and without my partner. 

And @MutualRespect, I'm sorry you lost your wife. And on a lighter note, mutual masturbation is hot.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Not rare.
> 
> The statistics say about 25% of ladies cannot 'O" from PIV alone. Dunno.
> Do whatever it takes. Be happy.


I thought it was only 25% who could?


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


Me either! Sometimes I wonder if that's why some women don't desire it as much! 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


Most women never do. I've read that only about 25% of women can have an orgasm from intercourse.

There is a way to simulate it... self stimulate while having intercourse... it's wonderful.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...


Masturbation as part of foreplay is good... occasionally. 

By definition it's a selfish act so a steady diet of this would kill my desire to have sex with a man... after all he does not need me there for him jack himself off.

You clearly have a masturbation fetish and will need to find a woman who also has one.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



EleGirl said:


> Masturbation as part of foreplay is good... occasionally.
> 
> By definition it's a selfish act so a stead diet of this would kill my desire to have sex with a man... after all he does not need me there for him jack himself off.
> 
> You clearly have a masturbation fetish and will need to find a woman who also has one.


Really? 

I greatly appreciate the comments here. It's been very eye-opening to say the least.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

What is meant by "mutual"? I do me and you do you? Or, you do me and I do you, kind like 69 but with hands?


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

anchorwatch said:


> Do you mean bringing each other to climax or self-satisfaction?


Definitely both


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

anchorwatch said:


> Do you mean bringing each other to climax or self-satisfaction?





CharlieParker said:


> What is meant by "mutual"? I do me and you do you? Or, you do me and I do you, kind like 69 but with hands?


Thanks yes, the 69 but with hands thing is great!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I thought it was only 25% who could?


Yikes!


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

My wife orgasms from intercourse .... kind of.

It takes a lot of grinding. I thinking it is more the grinding that is getting her off than the penetration. 

But then again, when I masturbate her with a vibrator, it seems like she gets off most when I add a finger or two of penetration.

So what is it?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


Me either; you're not alone. It does get frustrating though!


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> Its hardly a loving sexual relationship is it.




I disagree. Any moment you share together, can be a meaningful and loving moment. I think it’s great you were comfortable enough with each other to share these moments.

So sorry for your loss.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

kag123 said:


> Me either! Sometimes I wonder if that's why some women don't desire it as much!
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Well, I adore sex. Even without an orgasm. And the more I have it, the more I want it. 

The orgasms I enjoy, but honestly, I'd rather feel wanted.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Most women never do. I've read that only about 25% of women can have an orgasm from intercourse.
> 
> There is a way to simulate it... self stimulate while having intercourse... it's wonderful.


I'd love to try this. I need to feel safe during sex. An orgasm takes me a long time when I'm not alone, so I get very self-conscious. I've not been with someone I feel I can completely let go around. Maybe someday.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

lucy999 said:


> So you don't misunderstand, I didn't "like" your post for any other reason than to say, same here. Oddly enough, it has never bothered me because I orgasm through other means, with and without my partner.
> 
> And @MutualRespect, I'm sorry you lost your wife. And on a lighter note, mutual masturbation is hot.


I understood, and I agree - it doesn't bother me. It seems to bother men though. A lot.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife and I have not had intercourse for longer than we can remember. Maybe 15-20 years. Sex is my wife masturbating with her vibrator because she has tremendously intense orgasms that way. Sometimes she wants me to masturbate at the same time or she will use her free hand to help me orgasm with her. 

Although I have always liked to watch a new sex partner masturbate to see how they make themselves reach orgasm so I know what to do, intercourse expresses love and passion better than masturbation. The key difference is masturbation is all about me while intercourse is all about her pleasure.


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## haveandhold (Jan 15, 2018)

minimalME said:


> I understood, and I agree - it doesn't bother me. It seems to bother men though. A lot.


Bothers men?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

haveandhold said:


> Bothers men?


Yes. My ex-husband said it made him feel selfish. And me saying it didn't bother me at all didn't seem to help. 

Also, if I get to the point of discussing sex when dating someone, I'm very open about it, and I let them know that if they need a highly orgasmic woman as part of their sex lives, that's not me.

They seem to take it as a challenge - like they're the cure, which creates a wall and makes me more self-conscious.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

minimalME said:


> It seems to bother men though. A lot.


After 20 years of easy O’s for her, menopause made them difficult and that bothered me, a lot, and threw “us” off enough that I wasn’t sure we’d still be married. That’s an oversimplification and there was a lot more going on, but we basically had to relearn sex. We’re good now. 

More on topic, part of the relearning was that when our drives occasionally don’t match we will have naked time. Basically have foreplay and I f she gets into the mood great, but no pressure or expectation, and if not she’ll provide eye candy while I take of myself. As long as it’s only occasionally it still provides the emotional connection of sex.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> After 20 years of easy O’s for her, menopause made them difficult and that bothered me, a lot, and threw “us” off enough that I wasn’t sure we’d still be married. That’s an oversimplification and there was a lot more going on, but we basically had to relearn sex. We’re good now.
> 
> More on topic, part of the relearning was that when our drives occasionally don’t match we will have naked time. Basically have foreplay and I f she gets into the mood great, but no pressure or expectation, and if not she’ll provide eye candy while I take of myself. As long as it’s only occasionally it still provides the emotional connection of sex.


Naked time! I like that.


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## haveandhold (Jan 15, 2018)

minimalME said:


> They seem to take it as a challenge - like they're the cure, which creates a wall and makes me more self-conscious.


I would have to disagree with this generalization about men. I am a man and I don't think of myself as some type of "cure." I don't know any man that thinks this way.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

minimalME said:


> I understood, and I agree - it doesn't bother me. It seems to bother men though. A lot.


That has been my experience as well. They took it as they failed me. I never, ever saw it that way.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

haveandhold said:


> I would have to disagree with this generalization about men. I am a man and I don't think of myself as some type of "cure." I don't know any man that thinks this way.


That's fine. Off the top of my head, I can think of at least one guy recently who said, 'Challenge accepted.'

It's not really a generalization about men. It's more about my experiences - my conversations.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

lucy999 said:


> That has been my experience as well. They took it as they failed me. I never, ever saw it that way.


Exactly.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

minimalME said:


> Yes. My ex-husband said it made him feel selfish. And me saying it didn't bother me at all didn't seem to help.
> 
> Also, if I get to the point of discussing sex when dating someone, I'm very open about it, and I let them know that if they need a highly orgasmic woman as part of their sex lives, that's not me.
> 
> They seem to take it as a challenge - like they're the cure, which creates a wall and makes me more self-conscious.


Groan. 

I've definitely met my fair share of these men too (pre-marriage days). 

I'd consider that response to be enough for me to run the other way. Ick.

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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

It would bother me if the woman I was with hardly ever orgasmed with partnered sex.

The whole purpose is to give eachother orgasms.I enjoy giving orgasms as much as having them!

It would make me feel inadequate as a lover.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

chillymorn69 said:


> It would bother me if the woman I was with hardly ever orgasmed with partnered sex.
> 
> The whole purpose is to give eachother orgasms.I enjoy giving orgasms as much as having them!
> 
> It would make me feel inadequate as a lover.


I think a lot of men feel this way. It's not right or wrong to feel that way, it just is. 

Just like my inability to orgasm through most normal means "just is".

It actually makes me want sex even less, because it just reinforces that I am broken and that I am causing bad feelings for my H. 

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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

kag123 said:


> I think a lot of men feel this way. It's not right or wrong to feel that way, it just is.
> 
> Just like my inability to orgasm through most normal means "just is".
> 
> ...


I don't mean to say she would have to orgasm through intercourse.
Oral,manual,toys etc would be fine .

But if she rarely orgasmed even with the above things mentioned or could't comunicate a method that worked then I would lose desire for her.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Hand play is OK and sometimes the best or only option. PIV is much better for me if both people are good/happy with that method.

To the women that are too reserved to play with yourself while someone else is watching or near you, my heart goes out to you. I think there are some men that want the woman to genuinely have as much pleasure as he does but the man acts like a know it all or feels less than if he can't get her off with his Johnson.

Some guys think if they can't please a woman, he did something wrong or didn't do something right. As men age and truly understand female and male sexuality, I think men are open to new things and changes in his attitude or view about sexuality. I know I have. I am more open to the way things are concerning other people. I know what ever sexuality another person has or thinks has nothing or very little to do with me. OH, there might be some chemistry or there might be NO chemistry but the other person is what she or he is.

For the women that fear or think men will devalue you if you help yourself along with some toy or finger play, I will suggest doing so in small steps and tell your partner before hand what gets you over the edge and just say that is you and that people (especially women) are different and you are one of the different people and that doesn't make you unusual as far as female sexuality goes.

On the other side of the coin I never expected to hear about men that avoided having sex with his wife and especially for over a couple of years and sometimes for 15 years. One place I read about sexless marriages said 10%~15% of relationships are sexless.

You might throw in that story to prove a point that sexuality varies from person to person.

Me, yes I would feel the relationship was unbalanced if my female partner could have an "O" and wasn't comfortable with me while it was happening, not because of my ego, but it would be similar to watching 5 kids opening their Christmas presents while one kid sat there without a present to open. Most people would rush out and buy the one present-less kid something ASAP.

Some forms of giving and sharing brings joy. Sex play is one area where sharing is so special. Personally I would be willing to follow the lead or suggestions until she felt it was OK to "O" with me present. It is that one kid without gift on Christmas that gets to me. OTH is she said no way, that is OK too I suspect. I would still feel she was the one present less kid at Christmas but i would try to go along with her wishes.

There is way too much sham related to sexuality. BTDT and it sucks.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> It would bother me if the woman I was with hardly ever orgasmed with partnered sex.
> 
> The whole purpose is to give eachother orgasms.I enjoy giving orgasms as much as having them!
> 
> It would make me feel inadequate as a lover.


Most women (about 75%) are not built to have orgasms from PIV alone. Most of us need some kind of foreplay and after play to get there. It's just how women are built. So say that it would make you feel inadequate to be with a woman who is built like more women and whose ability to orgasm is normal seems odd. 

A couple can give each other orgasms in different ways.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



MutualRespect said:


> Really?
> 
> I greatly appreciate the comments here. It's been very eye-opening to say the least.


Yes really.

My understanding of your post is that you prefer masturbating to intercourse. So, yes, if I was with a man whose idea of sex most of the time was for him to masturbate while I watched, I'd end the relationship. It would be a turn off.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



EleGirl said:


> Yes really.
> 
> 
> 
> My understanding of your post is that you prefer masturbating to intercourse. So, yes, if I was with a man whose idea of sex most of the time was for him to masturbate while I watched, I'd end the relationship. It would be a turn off.



My understanding was that they masturbate mutually as well as each other. Not actually have one person left out. Maybe ‘stimulation other than through PIV’ would have been a better description.
But whatever couples do if it makes them happy: why judge?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...


A couple of things:

You're asking/hoping to do this daily. Daily sex is one thing, and you can certainly find a partner who's at that level. But daily mutual masturbation is another thing. Even if it often leads to sex, it's a lot to ask or expect from someone.

And that's the thing - it's an expectation, a hope, a "this is what I need for my fulfilment" kind of thing - and that's usually a bit of a turn-off for most people.

For most people, something like sex (mutual masturbation included) is something that is spontaneous (even if it's on a "scheduled" day). You go with the flow, you do what feels good, and it's generally different each time. It's not a "we do this first, then we do that, then we move on to this other thing" etc. Especially if it's really only for one person's benefit, or if it's the one person who's leading it all.

If this is what you want or need in a partner, then you're probably best to place an ad on a dating site, stating exactly this. Or at the very least, when you meet someone (assumedly online) you tell them this before you go out, start dating, etc.

In all honesty, it sounds like you have a masturbation fetish - which is perfectly fine. But to expect someone you're dating to get on board with this without their interest being as high as yours is a shot in the dark, and largely futile, IMO.

Like many interests (sexual and non-sexual) it's best to state the important ones prior to engaging in a relationship.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

Vinnydee said:


> The key difference is masturbation is all about me while intercourse is all about her pleasure.


It doesn't have to be. I love the suggestion about 69 but with your hands or whatever works. Then you are focused on each other and could be a pre-lude to piv.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

chillymorn69 said:


> It would bother me if the woman I was with hardly ever orgasmed with partnered sex.
> 
> The whole purpose is to give each other orgasms.I enjoy giving orgasms as much as having them!
> 
> It would make me feel inadequate as a lover.


I agree, but I also think that piv isn't the only way to have 'partnered sex' 69 with hands makes me feel good about giving while I am also getting.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



EleGirl said:


> Yes really.
> 
> My understanding of your post is that you prefer masturbating to intercourse. So, yes, if I was with a man whose idea of sex most of the time was for him to masturbate while I watched, I'd end the relationship. It would be a turn off.


What about 69 with hands a pre-lude to piv? I remember giving my last partner lots of orgasms with my fingers, but she never touched me at which felt very weird to me. I have never had that issue because I liked getting her off as much as I enjoyed getting off. I'm still not sure what went wrong there that I would have any control over.


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## Tito Santana (Jul 9, 2015)

minimalME said:


> Yes. My ex-husband said it made him feel selfish. And me saying it didn't bother me at all didn't seem to help.
> 
> Also, if I get to the point of discussing sex when dating someone, I'm very open about it, and I let them know that if they need a highly orgasmic woman as part of their sex lives, that's not me.
> 
> They seem to take it as a challenge - like they're the cure, which creates a wall and makes me more self-conscious.


Sadly, I see lots of guys who talk like they have a magic ****-- just read any forum about sex and a few of those dudes will inevitably show up and post about how they have never failed to deliver. A lot of guys are legends in their own minds and think they have the cure for what "ails" the 75%-80% of women who don't O through PIV alone. They've created their own super hero version of them self, like they are flying around in a red unitard with a giant blue letter D or C emblazoned on their chest, satisfying an-orgasmic women everywhere around the globe. It's just a machismo thing. In reality, it's all about the woman. It always is. It's the biology/anatomy

My wife is very much the same. She doesn't O through PiV alone. She never has. It doesn't matter what I do, haha. We just get her there in other fashions. I'd be lying though, if I didn't mention that it doesn't bother me at times, just due to the "perception" of how it should be. Sometimes I used to be like "WTH am I doing wrong", etc... We've talked about it and all it does is make her feel bad, and make everything harder for her. I came to the conclusion awhile ago that it's not her burden and I don't need to put that worry on her. If I ever start feeling bad or have thoughts of being "less of a man" or something crazy like that, I just sit back and logic it out again with myself. It always comes back to that's just how most women are wired wrt to biology/anatomy.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Tito Santana said:


> My wife is very much the same. She doesn't O through PiV alone. She never has. It doesn't matter what I do, haha. We just get her there in other fashions. * I'd be lying though, if I didn't mention that it doesn't bother me at times, just due to the "perception" of how it should be.* Sometimes I used to be like "WTH am I doing wrong", etc... We've talked about it and all it does is make her feel bad, and make everything harder for her. I came to the conclusion awhile ago that it's not her burden and I don't need to put that worry on her. If I ever start feeling bad or have thoughts of being "less of a man" or something crazy like that, I just sit back and logic it out again with myself. It always comes back to that's just how most women are wired wrt to biology/anatomy.


And I totally get it. One of my favorite sounds in the world is a man having an orgasm. If I was with someone who rarely/never did, it would be disappointing. But if he still enjoyed sex, and we were initimate on a regular basis, it would be less of an issue.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



inmyprime said:


> My understanding was that they masturbate mutually as well as each other. Not actually have one person left out. Maybe ‘stimulation other than through PIV’ would have been a better description.


By definition masturbate, means to stimulate one's own genitals for sexual pleasure. There is no such thing as "masturbating each other". 

My understanding of his post is that he prefers masturbation (self stimulation) to intercourse.



inmyprime said:


> But whatever couples do if it makes them happy: why judge?


I'm not judging others. I posted about how I would react to a man whose preference was masturbation over intercourse.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here I rewrote your first post to say what I now think your really meant to say. You are confusing "masturbation" with "foreplay". (note that I cannot seem to find a way to strike through text I wanted to edit out, so I made it a silver/gray color .



> For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



EleGirl said:


> By definition masturbate, means to stimulate one's own genitals for sexual pleasure. There is no such thing as "masturbating each other".
> 
> My understanding of his post is that he prefers masturbation (self stimulation) to intercourse.
> 
> ...



What’s ‘mutual masturbation’ then?
By ‘you’ I meant the general you. Anyone who judged.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



inmyprime said:


> What’s ‘mutual masturbation’ then?
> By ‘you’ I meant the general you. Anyone who judged.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


While it has become common to use the term "mutual masturbation" to refer to two people manually stimulating each other's genitals, technically speaking, it really means two (or more) people stimulating themselves at the same time in each others' presence. 

They are doing it together, but not to each other.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



inmyprime said:


> What’s ‘mutual masturbation’ then?
> By ‘you’ I meant the general you. Anyone who judged.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


MM is when you masturbate at the same time, together, lying next to each other. 

We do it occasionally, is super hot and requires an atmosphere of safety and respect. 

Personally I would not say it is *as important as intercourse * as the OPs title suggests but it is just one part of our sex lives.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

What do you call when you masturbate quietly into your wife’s hand while she’s asleep/next to you and pretend she was actually awake and totally into it? 


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Most women (about 75%) are not built to have orgasms from PIV alone. Most of us need some kind of foreplay and after play to get there. It's just how women are built. So say that it would make you feel inadequate to be with a woman who is built like more women and whose ability to orgasm is normal seems odd.
> 
> A couple can give each other orgasms in different ways.


Read my post after that statement.

I realize that!

And I clearfied.

As a matter of fact i have trouble orgasming through piv only. And my orgasms are much stronger with other methods. 

Many women do not like to give their men foreplay or oral or even hand jobs. 

And whats a guy to do then?

Get chastised with statement like ....tthats because you watch too much porn and use to firm a grip.


Nooooooo its not ,at least for me its not. 

Its a double standard if a woman needs oral or toy or direct clit stimulation then its well 75% of women need it thats how were made.

No thats the way they trained themselves by masterbating that way since a young age.

Its a mute point I know tons of women will bash me saying this or that .its doesn't matter to me. If my woman comunicated to me that she needs xy and z and then QRST and back to x . I wouldn't care I would say in my sexy voice you mean like this oh or like this .

Whatever she wanted would be cool . Except for maybe scat play or pain .

Not into giving pain! I would be incompatible with someone who needed pain to orgasm.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

chillymorn69 said:


> Read my post after that statement.
> 
> I realize that!
> 
> ...


No, this (the bolded) is not why 75% of women cannot orgasm with PIV. The reason is that for most women, their clitoris is too far forward to be stimulated enough during PIV. It has to do with anatomy.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> No, this (the bolded) is not why 75% of women cannot orgasm with PIV. The reason is that for most women, their clitoris is too far forward to be stimulated enough during PIV. It has to do with anatomy.




But I thought women can orgasm from g spot stimulation which is a separate feeling from clitoral. My wife does orgasm from both (she didn’t use to, from PIV, before) and she says they feel like two very different/separate orgasms. But both intense.
She sometimes comes from oral first and then doesn’t like the clit to be touched when I do PIV so must be using different nerve endings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

inmyprime said:


> But I thought women can orgasm from g spot stimulation which is a separate feeling from clitoral.


It depends on the woman.

My orgasms are strictly clitoral.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

minimalME said:


> Masterbation is a self centered activity, while making love, ideally, is other centered.
> 
> I can give myself a long, powerful orgasm that no man will ever be able to replicate.
> 
> Having said that though, I would totally give them up to share an intimate relationship with a man who was devoted to me.


Great post... we're all just sharing our personal thoughts.. before I had a boyfriend... I did myself.. once I had someone in my life... we longed to touch each other, to share in the pleasure.... get off at the same time ideally....this was a rush of excitement .....it deepened our emotional connection.. it's passionate , the mutual sharing of pleasure...I've always found my orgasms better with him over being alone.... 

Even the nights I didn't wake my husband up ... darn I wanted to, I would lay there thinking "I RREAAALLY want to wake him up"... but I felt he needed his sleep - yrs ago now...I was trying to be nice.. only to find out later he was upset I did that.. and would have always wanted woken up... we didn't talk about masturbation back then... 

What I learned was: here I would do that in the wee hrs of the night sometimes ...while he always waited for me... I was a little shocked to learn that... as he had a higher drive over me back then... but that's how strongly my husband has always felt about it... he's even said masturbation is hollow for him...his #1 love language is physical touch.. maybe this is part of it... that's how he feels loved and wants to give love....this mutual expression is fulfilling for both of us... 

It's just always been more exciting / passionate being with someone you love....over doing myself.... I find shared O's the mountain top experience...


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## haveandhold (Jan 15, 2018)

EleGirl said:


> Most women (about 75%) are not built to have orgasms from PIV alone.


Where did we get this percentage from? Most people make these numbers up in my experience.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



EleGirl said:


> By definition masturbate, means to stimulate one's own genitals for sexual pleasure. There is no such thing as "masturbating each other". My understanding of his post is that he prefers masturbation (self-stimulation) to intercourse. I'm not judging others. I posted about how I would react to a man whose preference was masturbation over intercourse.


I agree that I could have used a better title. I changed it slightly to reflect what I really meant. I also must have missed the definition you note above. I just checked dictionary.com which confirms my belief about masturbation not being self-centered at all, but simply another way of expressing yourself. It does not have to "exclude" your partner and in fact for me, that's the point. I don't want to be excluded nor do I want her to be excluded. I want to participate and I would not have as much fun without her as I would with her. The dictionary definition of masterbation is "to stimulate the genital organs of (oneself or another) to achieve sexual pleasure". One person suggested 69 with hands which I am totally kicking myself for not ever suggesting. I've never done that in 49 years of living and it seems like a perfect 'potential' place 'to start' or suggest, depending on the mood. That way it never becomes one-sided for either person. If she wants to help me do her, that's great and if I turn over and do me while she does her after I have gotten her started, and vice versa, then that works too. I don't see a down-side to that at all. 69 with hands seems like my best option to make sure that neither party feels excluded and can lead to piv or self-stimulation, or whatever else. My goal is that it's definitely an US thing, not a me thing or a her thing, whatever that thing becomes.


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

haveandhold said:


> Where did we get this percentage from? Most people make these numbers up in my experience.


I am not going to say it is made up. What I will say is when I first came onTAM I was shocked beyond measure to read this statistic. I started doing some chatting on my own and my measurements were there were 0 women who had never had an orgasm from PIV. That's right 0. I started thinking it just does not sound right that something else does not come into play with that statistic. Yes I am a Christian I believe that God created the act of sex and I do not believe he would have hid the climax of sex in some way where you could not have it within the ACT. I really think it must be something else but I don't know what it is. I think people can make a statistic for anything that they have seen happen and make it seem like that is the norm. But I am not going to say it is made up I do believe that there is something else coming in to play besides they just can't do it from PIV. One thing I would like to know as I would like to know about most surveys is who is the sample size. Is the sample size large enough. Can you really state that the sample size accurately reflects all women? I doubt it?

Ask for preferring masturbation over sex no thank you. I just do not get anything out of masturbation. Yes I can get an orgasm but it is empty and it just leaves a feeling of unsatisfaction. I need the act itself I need the fullness of my husband inside of me. As for his masturbation habits I just do not discuss them much with him. He is away for work a lot. So I don't know how he handles things at all. And suppose I could have a conversation with him to try to figure it out but that's okay. I have tried subtly asking him about it and he has joked about it mostly. So I will just leave it alone because I don't need to know one way or the other. I do know that he does not choose masturbation over sex with me when he is in town. He prefers to just have sex even if he has to wait few hours for it. We had a discussion before that he read somewhere that too much masturbation causes men to not be able to get an erection or maybe he said to have PE I can't remember which one it was.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Ok lots to throw in here.

Op. Not into self masterbation while my partner does same. I do enjoy and participate in foreplay including using hands to excite each other but I much prefer the ending to be PIV or PIA.

Chilly morn - sad to say but I've masterbate maybe 20 times in my whole long life. Just not into it. Since it just doesn't produce much of and orgasm for me it's meh. That said I can not orgasm PIV only. With foreplay, toys or oral yes, I can and do orgasm during PIV but it is because I'm being properly prepared or stimulated. Perhaps if my love life were a porn movie where PIV lasted hours I could. Also self masterbation doesn't do much for me because women use their brains and body the orgasm. I don't find rubbing myself sexy my husband doing it is awesome.

Thefam. See above you've now met a woman who doesn't orgasm by PIV alone. My traditional views on sex and thinking I was broken wasted many good sex years in my marriage. I find it sad that people would tell other women it just isn't true. I know many women that it's true for and others that I think just don't even know what a good orgasm is. I had years of a pleasant sex life. Many ok orgasms as my husband was generous with oral Before the PIV. But once we expanded the orgasms became so much more intense earth shattering. And our frequency increased as well. I agree I want to feel my husband inside of me, my favorite feeling. But him inside of me all by itself doesn't make me orgasm.


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## MutualRespect (Oct 15, 2017)

Anastasia6,

Thank you. I've read every response here in five pages of posts. I was surprised at how many people did not understand what I was driving at (no pun intended). I liked much of what you said. I have felt so "left out" in my most recent relationship that I am just trying to get back on track. All my life it seems like there has been this huge disconnect between what men want and what women seem to want. These insights into how women think will be helpful to me moving forward.

I hope that one day I can meet a woman that is comfortable being as vulnerable as I am willing to be. Until that day comes, I will continue reading and learning from all the strong and confident women in this forum.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm fully aware that most women can not "O" through PIV alone. That being said, if my partner is not having "O's" through oral, hands, or other means, then I'm not sure I could stay highly interested. 

I enjoy sex and have a high drive, but sex is mostly about her. That's just how I'm built. If she's not having "O's", then chances are she will quickly start to think of sex as a chore. I'd have to say, I would start thinking of it the same way. Why bother?


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...




- For myself, I only masturbate when my sex urge is just too high from the lack of sex from Mrs.CuddleBug LD, and I have to get it out of my system.


- But nothing beats having vaginal intercourse with a good woman. Nothing.


- There's also oral, feet anal and breasts, all with a good woman.


- Nothing beats sex with a good woman.


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## toblerone (Oct 18, 2016)

haveandhold said:


> Where did we get this percentage from? Most people make these numbers up in my experience.


Only about 30% do


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

minimalME said:


> I've never had an orgasm from intercourse.


I have heard some of us start after age 30. 

But Solo orgasms can be very large. I agree with you.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

MaiChi said:


> But Solo orgasms can be very large. I agree with you.


Which is a great thing, considering my solo state.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...


Sorry about your loss. 

I do not speak on the behalf of 'most' women but I get the impression that 'some' women are not into masturbation for different reasons. I do not think that a woman would worry about her man having a release on his own at some point (GAME - B), but her needs come first and should be his top priority (GAME - A). 

Secondly, if your potential partner is not into masturbation then do not 'pressure' her into trying it for your sake, and in front of you no less; some people perceive masturbation as a strictly personal activity. To put this another way; if a man is pressuring his wife to masturbate, and possibly in front of him, then he is not making much of an impression on her in the bedroom; she might feel off (if she is not into masturbation). 

No harm in discussing this matter with your potential partner though. At the least you will know, but stick to GAME - A.


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## HDC (Nov 8, 2017)

I’ve always felt that most anything should be on the table between married people. I mean if your comfortable enough to marry that person and share a house, a bedroom, a bathroom, then you must feel pretty comfortable with them. I’ve done a small amount of mutual masturbation I think it’s pretty hot. My spouse is not really into it so it never really happens, so it’s not really a big deal either way. If my spouse liked it more I would be willing to do it a lot more. As far as feeling like a failure because your spouse doesn’t orgasm... I can relate to that. It’s a really big deal to me and greatly affects my enjoyment of sex. I understand this is a bad thing and probably puts enormous pressure on my spouse, which in turn makes a orgasm harder to reach. Am I wrong for that.......probably but it’s who i am and I’m not likely to change.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

*Re: Masturbation should be as important as intercourse*



MutualRespect said:


> For me, masturbation has always been just as important as intercourse.
> 
> My wife died two years ago of Cancer.
> 
> ...


In order of your intentionally well spaced sentences from top to bottom:

Not for me.

I'm sorry for your loss.

You found a good match.

How so?

It's such a private, personal, selfish, activity that encompasses imagining someone that may or may not be our SO, her trepidation seems common.

Sorry, missed that you wanted women to reply. As I have started this response, I will continue. 

She loved you and wanted to please you. She probably had the same, commonl trepidation your date had. 

When doing it together, one partner is in the throes of dreamland while the other is using them to get off. 

It would seem typical that one of the two would be using the SO's private personal enthusiasm to cause his/her excitement, just like pornography. This takes the person out of the act so that the one watching the other can be pleasured with an act and not who they love. They are not longer a person, but a tool. 

Improvement in a relationship involves kind and loving acts, trust, respect and the building of these through consistent actions over time. Mutual masturbation could only help if two were in agreement that they liked this and took turns allowing the other to use them as their tool to get off.

These are my uneducated and untested thoughts.


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