# Sliding into a hole and checking out....



## Austin_Train (Aug 5, 2014)

It's been a rocky road since the birth of kids. Wife had post partum, twice. Lots of issues. We tried counseling, it failed. I just withdrew. 

3 years ago, we needed her to go back to work... which she did. Her workplace was exploitative and she became a workaholic. A match made in hell.  Over time her work grew to take over and impact our family life. Wife become perpetually stressed, and then stress eating her way to obesity. 

Increasingly her time spent with the kids is in front of the TV, as she has no energy for anything else...

I lived with it, always hoping it would get better, always looking for a way... until I found some credit card bills in the thousands of dollars that I didn't know about... Money frittered away on fast food and clothes - I gather a reaction to stress.

Given these cards, her work appeared to be costing us as much as she's bringing in. I'm exhausted by it all, and didn't deal with it head on. Instead asked her to quit her job and refocus on family.

Having her at home hasn't been much improvement. She's still a stress basket. The kids don't want to do anything other than watch TV, which she obliges, as it's easy and lets her sit on the couch and read twitter on her phone. When I get home, she'll proudly show some counters she cleaned, as if it is a victory worthy of someone who spent 8 hours at home. I try to respond well, but inside I'm like horrified.

It seems that at all turns, she finds ways to make things difficult for herself, and then wastes no time in complaining about how hard for her.

We are educated, middle class people, who could have had a great life together, and have the wherewithal to put a lot of attention and mindfulness into how we raise our children.

I don't even know where to begin with all of this. Playing games with the kids or taking them to a part risks a battle, as they just want to watch TV, or go shopping with mom.

If I express any issue with this, I'd just be dismissed as controlling. 

About a month ago, I just broke down in tears when I had this sudden realization of loss. 

I'm weary, and find myself checking out. I'm playing video games, and find myself holing up in the basement watching TV which I really haven't done in years. I'm drinking more than I should be to. Went to the doc and got antidepressants a month back, but forget to take them half the time. Just feel myself sliding into a hole of unhappiness. 

I try to bury myself in a hobby, but it doesn't really make up for the feeling of loss on the family-front. Really, I'm even losing energy for my hobby.

My wife is a workaholic, shopaholic, foodaholic. My kids don't talk much about anything other than shopping or TV now. They are great kids, but I see them on a slow path to a sedentary life.

Really, we could have had so much more, and I feel like our family life has become something broken, with no indications that it could get better, or even be otherwise.

I should probably go see someone, but am having trouble working up the motivation. 

To be blunt, suicide is not an option, nor is Divorce - But I just feel trapped.

Not even sure where to begin with a family situation that seems so broken.

Any insights appreciated.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Welcome to middle age.

Whatcha ya gonna do about it?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If divorce isn't an option and you feel you "can't say anything" to your wife about the situation you are in, then I guess you are actually choosing it.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Why did counselling fail? You should find the right Councillor and stick with it for a while. It seems like neither of you is putting any effort into improving so what do you expect? It sounds like your life is just going downhill and you're letting it while finding some temporary solutions.

Also, you should be very careful with anti depressants, they can do terrible, terrible things to you. I've seen it first hand on multiple occasions.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

How old are the kids?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd suggest that step one should be putting a priority on getting yourself sorted out, mentally, physically, and emotionally. Stop wasting time with video games and get active. Lead your family by example, if nothing else.

Get rid of cable/satellite TV. What are the wife and kids going to do about it? B!tch? So what?


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

GTdad said:


> I'd suggest that step one should be putting a priority on getting yourself sorted out, mentally, physically, and emotionally. Stop wasting time with video games and get active. Lead your family by example, if nothing else.
> 
> Get rid of cable/satellite TV. What are the wife and kids going to do about it? B!tch? So what?


This is great advice - concentrate on yourself first. Start working out, start finding joy in hobbies. Both happiness and depression are contagious.... 

You can't force anyone to change - but you can help them want to change. Think about Tom Sawyer and his fence here...


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## Austin_Train (Aug 5, 2014)

- Kids are 5 and 7.

- Counselling failed because counsellor gave us some homework...Something small. Wife didn't hold up her end in homework. I was frustrated that wife was not able to even take baby steps. Counsellor seemed to think it was inappropriate that I cared whether or not wife did her counselling homework. Left feeling frustrated that change was not in the air, and that my only choice was to accept - Which I actually did. Went into a funk for a while, and came out willing to "let go". 


- Talked to wife last night. Was just in funk. Told her I was unhappy with how our lives were turning out, and in particular how kids are being raised. Told her I didn't like how she was always shopping, and always putting the kids in front of the TV while she plays on the phone. Told her she's always drowning in one chosen-crisis or another, and it seems we never have peace. She's been angsting over Gaza for 2 weeks now. Spends her days reading about it on twitter. It's beyond mere humanitarian concern into harmfull wallowing.... she's fixated, and it's dragging her down. She left her job recently, so I guess she needs something else to drag her down.

- One respondent mentioned terrible side effects of antidepressants... like what?


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Write down what you envision for your family

and learn really strong loving boundaries

Get any of the books by Townsend.. there are several

You will find a gold mine in them. 

This is totally a boundary issue... 

If you KNOW you are not being controlling and abusive then do not accept her blameshifting/gaslighting efforts to maintain status quo. 

Out of the FOG - Personality Disorder Support

"Wife, asking for health and well being in our home is in no way abuse and I would appreciate not being characterized as such."

Learn to stand in the truth and rest there... she will either join your stance eventually or she will leave.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

When you say "obesity"... how much does your wife weigh? What kind of physical shape was she in when you got married?

And most importantly, why is divorce not an option? It may be the only chance you have to show your kids what a healthy individual and a healthy lifestyle really is.

You should get counseling for yourself; forget marriage counseling. A good counselor will help you isolate the issues and tackle them one by one. Including the tough issue of whether or not to stay in this very dysfunctional marriage.


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## inquizitivemind (Jul 16, 2013)

How did your wife respond whenever you told her about how you feel? Also, are you telling her how you feel or are you blaming her with your statements? 

There are some people who love misery because its the only excitement they have in their lives. They love drama and problems. It is sad to me that your wife doesn't pay attention to your kids more. As a mother, that is alarming. I don't think you need marriage counseling, I think your wife needs individual counseling.

If she suffered from depression after your children, she needs to figure out why. Only therapy can help her figure that out. I would strongly encourage you to INSIST your wife gets counseling.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

GTdad said:


> I'd suggest that step one should be putting a priority on getting yourself sorted out, mentally, physically, and emotionally. Stop wasting time with video games and get active. Lead your family by example, if nothing else.
> 
> Get rid of cable/satellite TV. What are the wife and kids going to do about it? B!tch? So what?


:iagree: I have to say this is a good start.


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## phoenix_ (Dec 20, 2013)

Austin_Train said:


> - One respondent mentioned terrible side effects of antidepressants... like what?


Everything is worse than what's written on the bottle and they last MUCH longer than you expect, especially when you're trying to get off of them.
My wife was on anti depressants for a while and tried to taper off but then she felt uncontrollable amounts of stress that she couldn't even do daily functions like homework or basic cleaning. 
Discontinuation syndrome is very common and it will make you go through amplified versions of your initial symptoms which makes you think you can never stop it. They're terrible, be careful. People make a lot of money by selling these drugs so keep that in mind.


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## Faeleaf (Jul 22, 2014)

You are both depressed, and you both need help for it, because as you well know by now, you cannot just decide to "snap out" of depression. Your wife can't, either. Any more than you could snap yourself out of a pit of quicksand. I strongly suggest individual counseling for the both of you.

Also, there is a lot of wife-blaming in your posts. She *could* be 100% responsible for all your problems - usually when there is a problem in the marriage two people are to blame, but for the sake of the discussion let's assume it's ALL on her - but blaming her won't help you. It will only further her depression, and make her LESS likely to believe she can improve. 

I am a big fan of 1) leading by example, 2) small, gradual changes, and 3) focusing on rewarding the positive, instead of punishing the negative. 

1) If you work on yourself first, you'll be demonstrating to your whole family how health and activity can increase happiness and contentment. That is a hard example to ignore. 

2) Make baby steps. Take one kid on a walk, talk about the things that interest him/her (yes, even shopping) and then afterward make a point of telling him/her how much you enjoyed your time together. Do that once a week, with each kid. Ask for your wife's support instituting "family night" once a week, where you play board games together and make popcorn, etc. Ignore the kid's protests, and make it fun.

3) Focus on the positive - even when someone makes a _little _effort, let them know that you appreciate it. So just the counters were cleaned? That's a good place to start, and tell your wife thank you, that it really helps your peace of mind when things are cleaned and organized. 

And most powerfully of all, when talking to your family, *start by verbalizing assumptions that reinforce the desired behavior*...even if it's not 100% true yet. 

For example, to your kids when they leave their garbage wrappers on the floor, "I know you appreciate living in a clean house, and believe that people should clean up after themselves. It's easy to let little things slip sometimes - we all do that. Will you please pick up those wrappers from before?" 

To your wife when you talk to her about family night, "I know family is important to you, and making special memories by spending time together is something you value as much as I do. I guess if we don't put it on the schedule and make a routine of it, it's easy to let things slip, and before we know it, a month has gone by without us doing anything together. I'd like to make Monday nights a regular family night for us to play games together. Do you have any ideas for how to make that special and fun for everyone?"

*Making assumptions that reinforce the desired behavior* is actually incredibly motivating. You show the other person that you recognize the good in them, even if the good isn't blazingly obvious at the moment. 

Imagine that your boss walks by your desk while you're goofing off on TAM, and calls you in his office. Which would be more motivating to you - for him to express how unhappy you make him, or scold you for not being on task? Or if he said, "You're a hard worker and I really value your contributions to our team. I know you want to succeed at your job and accomplish the goals we've set, and I am sure you can do that. Sometimes we all get a little distracted. Let's refocus and get the job done." 

It doesn't actually matter if any of those things aren't strictly true - hearing them said by another person who is showing confidence in you, makes you _want_ to live up to that confidence. It's MUCH more effective than blaming, attacking, or complaining, which usually leave people feeling surly and misunderstood.


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## Austin_Train (Aug 5, 2014)

Thank you for all of your *very* helpful responses. I'm amazed at all of the wisdom here. 

I sent her a message today which was a jumble of thoughts I'd had. She responded that it was full of blame - Similar to what others have said on here.

I will read and respond more and look into the books suggested.

Thanks again.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Hey, Austin

Counseling failed because of your counselor. You know that.

It is frustrating, but it can be helped. Catch your breath, and know it can be helped, you've just not found the right key. As the others have said you need to lead here, not beg, demand, cry out, or anger. Just lead.

I agree, get Dr Townsend's books Boundaries and Boundaries in a Marriage, that's a good place to start. Another place to look are Dr Harley's quick reads His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters. Take a look at them, then tell us what you think...

Cloud Townsend Resources

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

Hey and pat yourself on the back for desiring to not slip further into that hole and proactively seeking answers. :smthumbup:


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, it seems you all need to take a step away from the internet and TV. Have you considered a family holiday, to a cabin in the woods maybe, with no phone reception let alone a TV? No computers, no phones. Go for a good amount of time. It seems that if you can't get her to choose to stop focusing on stuff that will not benefit her life at all, you need to get her away from it, at least for a while, until she can see how different your lives could be.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

I'm glad you have gotten some good advice to work on your marriage. 

Your kids need some attention too. I would suggest in the next day or so you when you get home from work to take your wife aside or say to wife and kids together (which ever you think will work best) and let her know that you are taking the kids to the park. Tell her it would be GREAT if she would come too. Ignore the kids protests other than to tell them jovially that it will be good for them.

Go to a park that has a playground, but take a couple of balls, maybe a plastic bat and ball or any simple outdoor toy. Maybe evean a book for all 3 of you but DON'T LET THEM BRING ANY ELECTRONICS!

When you get there ask them if they want to play on the equpment, play ball, whatever. If they say no, just say okay and let them sit on the park bench and read or just sulk. If they only want to sit on the park bench, stay for 45 minutes to an hour or so. Take our your book and read contently. They will at least get some sun and much needed vitamin D. On the way home tell them you enjoyed being with them. Then do it again next week. Don't forget to ask your wife if she will come too. Don't let her telling the kids they don't have to go stop your from taking them anyway!


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

All good advice so far. Just remember to take baby steps and give yourself your bad days, but don't become your bad day. Give yourself credit for the small victories. And give your wife credit for hers too. A clean counter isn't much, but she DID do it, and if she gets vaidation for it, it might help motivate her to do more too. She is depressed too.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

I agree with GA heart... one of the BEST moves my H and I made was agreeing to operate in grace on our messy days. We had to totally deconstruct our relationship and start a new construction site for it... think Extreme Makeover Marriage edition. What we had was NOT working, so we razed it to the ground. Well we realized new construction sites are always messy and made a conscious decision to accept the messy days and just keep building. We've had some painful moments, but they aren't lingering like they used to and helps us move on faster.

You are in demolition mode.... its going to be messy for a while and everyone will fuss about not being able to find their "stuff" (the old coping mechanisms) but just keep that contractors hat on because you are the one with the blue prints to a healthier home and they just need to follow your lead. 

just reinforce that you love them and that the change is going to be ok... practice patience as they get used to the new digs. Its ok if they dont see it right away... they will


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## reboot (Oct 9, 2012)

Believe me, I feel your pain. I am in a very similar boat after 12 years except we are more from the lower-middle-class strata with painful, ongoing money problems. I think Faeleaf gave some great advice that I am going to try, and I am also going to pick up the book Boundaries in Marriage.

When we said our vows "for better or for worse" who among us imagined "worse" meant a spouse who won't forgive us or apologize, and who often makes bad examples for our children? But that is what it means for me right now.

My goal is to remain a strong, reliable, vivacious father to my children, and to show them what a good husband is. When I was a child my parents' divorce cut my soul in two and it took me many years to recover. I didn't even sense their marital problems were that bad. I just wanted them to stay together.

This requires deep surgery inside me and I often want to cry and drink and hide--and often do--but there is too much at stake here.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You can't talk about blame sharing or improve self first when one person takes the brunt of the responsibility. 

Unfortunately the children are at an age where they can get away with it...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Like the others said, just lead the way. Get yourself together, and lead by example. We all only have control over ourselves, anyway.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

john117 said:


> You can't talk about blame sharing or improve self first when one person takes the brunt of the responsibility.
> 
> Unfortunately the children are at an age where they can get away with it...


Very key point and this was the key that unlocked our situation, so I totally agree. I had to get tough "first" because I was already doing the brunt of responsibility, I had to stop accepting destructive attitudes & behaviors, cast the vision of a better tomorrow quite firmly and then watch for actions to match instead of listening to words. In the middle of that I maintained self improvement and refinement of that as I went along, but my H HAD to get on the train with both feet and quit lagging behind and playing around with the emergency brake stopping the train all of a sudden. And what happened as HE got on the train too, and kept his hands to himself, then areas I needed refinement in showed up, so it was just proof that if he hadn't gotten on the train and picked up the tool of self discipline that part of me would not have grown either, so it has been quite enriching for both of us.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Boundaries work the way they are intended only on self aware people, incidentally. If your significant other is not quite self aware (in the sense that they're dealing with some real mental issue that alters reality for them, hence my self aware nomenclature) then boundaries will often be more trouble than they're worth in terms of achieving results. 

But absolutely necessary in keeping things from deteriorating further. 

So, as I have always said, make sure you understand whether it is can't or won't, how much of each, and whether external intervention is needed.

Not everyone has a personality disorder or three in real life but we of the TAM bunch are self selecting so...


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## reboot (Oct 9, 2012)

john117 said:


> Boundaries work the way they are intended only on self aware people, incidentally. If your significant other is not quite self aware (in the sense that they're dealing with some real mental issue that alters reality for them, hence my self aware nomenclature) then boundaries will often be more trouble than they're worth in terms of achieving results.


This is an extremely important point. When my wife had post-partum depression, it took me months to finally realize I was not the bad guy. I had been in the dog house scratching my head the entire time, and it turns out she was just out of balance. 

One of the signs that you are dealing with someone with a mental imbalance/illness (assuming you yourself are not) is that despite your best efforts and a deep conviction that you are doing the right thing, their behavior is baffling you to such a degree that you begin to question your own sanity.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Marriage counseling ASAP

Stop taking anti depressants ASAP (those will have severe effects on your health in other areas)....I also have a feeling you shouldn't have gotten them either (doctors LOVE to give those out). Usually pills are LAST RESORT for people with SEVERE depression.

You are dealing with LIFE, which is full of ups and downs, you are simply at the bottom right now.

If you wife doesn't want to actively improve and work on the issues you have communicated to her or get counseling, I suggest you get a divorce ASAP.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Austin_Train said:


> I sent her a message today which was a jumble of thoughts I'd had. She responded that it was full of blame - Similar to what others have said on here.


Two things to take away here:

At this point, words will only hurt you. She is defensive and won't take things well. So communicate by action and suggestion. Invite her to go play at the park with you and the kids. Then go do it, whatever her answer.

When you do communicate, messages (I take this to be email or text) are bad because they have no tone. Much of communication is about body language, tone of voice, eye contact, etc. You lose that in a message. These sorts of talks need to be face to face (bring notes if you need to, but speak directly).


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

I know how you feel. One of my ex didn't realize her going to work was costing us money.

The way I looked at it the job cost me $400 a month due to all the extra expenses that had to be paid for her to go there, the gas, the extra car, the day care and other things, and ontop of that wasting 50 hrs of time at the time we would spend together and adding stress onto her and putting her focus outside of the house.

This was a bad relationship though, and was about the 100th straw that broke the camels back. 

I knew it was costing us money for her to work, literally her checks could not cover the additional expenses. I put it together on a spreadsheet, but she was only concerned about what she wants.

With your situation, if you can get through to her, you can improve it, because she does not have to eat fast food, she can eat home cooked most of the time and if she must eat fast food, use the $1 menu with a tight budget.

Also she doesn't need to be top model in work place. I'm sure she has enough clothes to last her two or three years without any additional purchases.

So you can get that expenses down $500/month, which will stress you less.

As I mentioned, for a couple to remain healthy, it will be wise to schedule alone time and also actual dates. You need POSITIVE and FUN time together. Without it you will either be ignoring each other at 95% of your mental faculties or fighting.

I hope you don't add sexlessness ontop of it. Sex helps maintain the marriage bond, it is an actual great excersize, the only one you are rewarded with confidence and energy throughout the excersize and will control stress.


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

reboot said:


> This is an extremely important point. When my wife had post-partum depression, it took me months to finally realize I was not the bad guy. I had been in the dog house scratching my head the entire time, and it turns out she was just out of balance.
> 
> One of the signs that you are dealing with someone with a mental imbalance/illness (assuming you yourself are not) is that despite your best efforts and a deep conviction that you are doing the right thing, their behavior is baffling you to such a degree that you begin to question your own sanity.


Agree with this... 

My Mother was the baffling behavior that made me question my sanity (and the rest of the family sees it - also a key point) - and thus I no longer entrust myself to her

My Husband so far seems to be falling in the other camp after adjustments in our relationship and personal work - Thank you Jesus


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