# Less than 1.5 years and almost no sex



## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Hey everyone,
I joined this forum because I really don't know how to handle my current situation, I just don't know where to go, turn, what to do, nothing. I'm lost.

My wife and I have only been married for about one year and two months, and we almost never have sex. By almost never, I mean generally once or MAYBE twice a month. I just don't understand it, and I don't know what more I could possibly do because I do everything I can to make her happy, make her smile, take care of her, and I can't think of any reasons of why she's not attracted to me like that. Or why she doesn't care to be...

Now, I know it maybe sound weird to word it the way I just did, but that's because she FINALLY after a year of being married acknowledged there was a problem. She talked to her doctor who put her on some medicine that generally increases female libido. My wife said it seemed like it was working but that it gave her headaches so she came off it. Now, it did seem like it was sort of working, when she was on it, we had sex a little more, but at most once a week, which to me still doesn't seem like enough. Like if we busy then maybe, but when we lay in bed together every night and watch TV for a couple hours, I don't see why sex can't happen.

Also, she has admitted openly to me that it's definitely not all medical / brain chemistry / physical and that probably half of it is her just not putting in the effort and just not caring too or something along those lines. Once she came off the original medicine, her doctor recommended she start taking an over the counter medicine to see if that helped her hormone levels. She has been on that for a couple weeks now and says she doesn't feel any different, but she still needs to go back for blood work to have her hormone levels measured. But she still hasn't tried putting in more effort despite me trying to talk to her about it and letting her know it makes me feel like crap.

I honestly feel like she's just not attracted to me that way and that she just does it to get it over with. I know that I shouldn't feel that way, but what am I supposed to think? And when we do have sex, 99% of the time it's the same kind of sex and I feel like there is no passion in it. I don't know what to do. I know I shouldn't feel like it's me, and she tells me all the time to not feel that way and that she thinks I'm incredibly sexy and awesome and what not, but then why would she not want to have sex?

I've done a ton of searching on the internet for ideas of things to do, but I've done pretty much all of them. I'm a pretty damn romantic guy naturally so any romantic ideas have basically been done. I do cute things for her all the time just because. I'm not a bad looking guy, I keep myself in great shape, I make her laugh all the time, her friends and family love me, I have a good job, like I don't know what else she could want from me. And I've asked her a million times if the sex is just bad for her and what we could do to make it better because maybe that is the cause, but she says that's not it either. And it just KILLS me that there are so many guys out there who don't treat their women half as good as I treat mine, and yet I feel like something that I always saw as a basic yet very important part of marriage barely ever occurs. The whole thing is just incredibly frustrating and upsetting. I just don't understand it at all.

I'm sorry for the novel, but I just wanted to throw as much as I could out there for anyone willing to listen and help. So thank you to whoever does.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

> I don't know what more I could possibly do because I do everything I can to make her happy, make her smile, take care of her, and I can't think of any reasons of why she's not attracted to me like that. Or why she doesn't care to be...


This stuck out to me. Not saying it's the truth, but possible, she see's you as to nice of a guy - like a doormat in a way. It could be possible that she falls into the same category as millions of married women that are bored or don't see you as a man and they show it by not putting out. 

How was the sex in the beginning. If it was good, read this:

Because sex is something that is very important to you, and you have tried everything - romantic, etc - then it's time to switch it up. Stop trying. You are way to early in this marriage (no kids?) to be this miserable. If nothing is working now.. it's never going to work.

You need to read the No More Mr. Nice Guy book. If being extremely nice is not enough to have sex with your wife, then it is time to STOP being extremely nice. Any little thing you do for her that satisfies her, stop doing it.

It's time to start changing your life. If you plan on having sex more frequently, sadly - changing is the only way it's going to happen - or a divorce.

Sorry you are stuck in this situation. Sorry she doesn't treat you like her lover.

edit: If it happens to be something medical, be ready for a longgggg road ahead of you.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

We don't have any kids. Also, to clarify we are in our mid 20's, so it's not like we are 1 year in but 80 years old.

Sex in the beginning was basically the same. On the honeymoon it was a little different, but I feel like that's basically expected. However, I feel like there shouldn't have been the dramatic drop off that there was.

And I feel like your answer is a really good one. I've gotten this same advice from my mother-in-law (her mother) and my sister-in-law (her sister). Their family is very open and I am extremely close with them so while it may seem a little odd that we have talked about it, it's fairly normal with the way they are as funny as that may sound. But I have gotten this advice before, but it's just so hard because I feel bad when I don't do those things that make her happy.

I just have always seen relationships as I do for you and you do for me, if we love each other we should both be doing what we can do make the other happy, and it shouldn't be a one way street. And don't get me wrong, she is awesome is a ton of ways or I wouldn't be with her. It just sucks that she blows off one area of extreme importance to me.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

When you have sex does she enjoy it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Huzzah (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't know if this helps but my wife spent the first year of our marriage in the bathroom, in my opinion hiding from me. Sex to some is only to be done for the purpose of creating a life, and to do it otherwise is a sin. I did experience something similar with a girl who as it turned out had a very bad experience in the past with a man. Maybe there is something in your girl's past that she hasn't told you?


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I'm sorry man, that's all I got. I'm also in my mid-20's - my girl and I have sex every night basically.. personality wise: I come off as a d*ck but I treat her like a lady, however, not all the time. You shouldn't have to go over board to make someone like you. Just be a man and put her in her place when she is wrong. That's one of the biggest turn ons she has about me.

There will be more people that will answer your questions more specifically. Good luck man.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Tracy, as far as I know, she enjoys it. That's what she tells me, and it doesn't seem like she doesn't enjoy it. However, at the same time, she's not like "OMG, that was the best sex ever". A good majority of the time she says that it starts to hurt, but I have suggested using lube and this and that. Another thing she has openly admitted to me is that sometimes she skips out on sexy because she is too lazy to take a shower after and if she doesn't shower after then her lady parts will be uncomfortable all day.

Huzzah, there could maybe be something she's not telling me, but I don't think that part is the case. And I know that it's definitely not a religious / moral thing with her.


Another clarification that I should make is that when we first started dating 6 years ago, the sex was really good. When I said that in the beginning it wasn't good, I meant the the beginning of our marriage.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

You mentioned that you take care of her. You didn't mention what she did to show love or attraction for you. Were you sexually active before marriage? If so, was it different than after marriage? Just a thought, but sex, especially to a woman, is largely related to security and intimacy. You discussing her sexual dysfunction with her family probably isn't helping her feel secure or intimate with you. You probably need to talk to a therapist or counselor but the only thing her mother would hear from me was that my wife was the greatest thing since sliced bread. What's her mother's relationship with her father like? That's what your wife knows about husband/wife relationships. If her parents weren't physically affectionate, that would probably seem normal to your wife.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks again wise, but I think you see me as someone who is just always trying to please people. That's not necessarily the case. And I definitely let her know when she's wrong. Like I don't just let her yell at me and then cower or something. I stand up for myself and have no problem telling her when she is being ridiculous or rude or giving me attitude for no reason, and with her, that definitely isn't a turn on. With her, there's no such thing as make up sex, which is another thing I can't stand, but I'll aim for sex more often for now and worry about that later.

Yes, I'm a really nice guy, and I do a lot for people, but I can generally tell when I'm being taken advantage of and put a stop to it. I'm very open and honest with everyone, so I have no problem getting my thoughts out there and making them heard, which is why I'm in such a predicament here because I'm let myself be known but to no avail in this case.


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Not only is she enjoying it but does she have orgasms? Its good that she acknowledges something is wrong in this area. That is a good first step. I always wonder when I hear of these young girls not liking/having sex if it is due to an emotional disconnect in the marriage. If there are perhaps a lot of things that go unsaid on her part and many things she isn't forthcoming with.

I likely wonder this because I have done it myself - to generalize with women, physical intimacy seems to follow emotional intimacy.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

She said I can talk to a counselor or therapist if I want, but that she won't go. She refuses to. I don't exactly know why, but she won't. I think it's because she thinks they will side with me, and she doesn't want to hear it.

Her parents don't have a very good physical relationship but that is because of certain circumstances and not because of their normal behavior. My wife knows that is not the norm. She knows that sex is a healthy part of the relationship, she just doesn't seem to care enough or see it as that important for her.

As for things she does for me, I did say that she is awesome to me besides the sex, but if you want specific examples I can list some. She surprises me with things she knows I want, for example, my xbox broke last year and I wasn't going to buy a new one because I know we needed the money for the wedding so she went out and surprised me with one. And for my birthday she got me new running shoes because she knew I really wanted a nice pair. But at the same time, I don't care much about material things because I can get them for myself. I know it's the thought that counts and do appreciate it more than anything, but I would have like some intense birthday sex a lot more.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Get the book "His Needs, Her Needs", read it with her and do the things it says to do.

It will explain to her that sex is very important to most men. Very little sex is a deal breaker. She needs to know that. This will give you the opportunity to discuss it in a way that might turn her around.

Her not wanting sex because she's too lazy to shower after is not a reasonable excuse. A full shower is not even needed.

The hurting bit might be something to check up on. Has she told the doctor this?

In reality your marriage is a much longer term relationship of 6 years. That makes a big difference in they types of things that could be going on.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How many hours a week do you two spend doing date-like things together, just the two of you?


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

MissScarlett, maybe there is something she isn't telling me? But I don't think it's that. Emotionally we are fine as far as I know. But then again, looking at our sex life I can't exactly deny that there could be a problem there that I do not see / am unaware of. However, that wouldn't be for a lack of trying to get it out of her because I always try to talk to her about sex and anything that might hold it back or any other issues she might possibly have with me, the marriage, or anything else.

As for orgasm, she does sometimes, but lately she hasn't. And that bothers me a lot because I ask her what else she would like me to do, I try to do things that I can tell she is enjoying and reacting well too, but a lot of the time she will end of saying it's starting to hurt or what not before she has a chance to. That's when I'll ask if she wants to use lube or something else to make it more comfortable and she'll usually turn that down for whatever reason. Who knows.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Ele girl,

We spend a lot of time together during the week. Generally a lot of that time is spent in bed watching TV before we go to sleep so I won't count that as "date" time. But if you mean something like, going out to dinner, the mall, or movies then probably something like 6-10 hours a week doing date like things, maybe a little more.

She also knows that most guys wouldn't go for such little sex. I've talked to her about it, and she doesn't really seem to care to be honest. She says that she does care that it bothers me, but the fact that there hasn't been any real effort on her part in over a year makes me feel otherwise.

And I hope everyone knows that I appreciate all the input and I'm not trying to be so negative about everything. it's just that, like I said in the original post, I've tried pretty everything I could think of and find on the internet. This is basically my last attempt before I just go talk to a professional about it. It just sucks to feel that if / when I do talk to a therapist or counselor that she isn't open at all to the idea of us doing it as a couple, which adds a little to the idea that she might have something she doesn't want to talk about. Which is something know some people have mentioned.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

What turns her on?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Ele girl,
> 
> We spend a lot of time together during the week. Generally a lot of that time is spent in bed watching TV before we go to sleep so I won't count that as "date" time. But if you mean something like, going out to dinner, the mall, or movies then probably something like 6-10 hours a week doing date like things, maybe a little more.


Movies usually do not count because you are not focused on each other. Generally it’s recommended that a couple spend at least 15 hours a week together doing date like things that you both enjoy. So you are close but not quite there. 



Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> She also knows that most guys wouldn't go for such little sex. I've talked to her about it, and she doesn't really seem to care to be honest. She says that she does care that it bothers me, but the fact that there hasn't been any real effort on her part in over a year makes me feel otherwise.


She might know that most guys would not go for such little sex, but she probably misunderstands what sex means to a man who is in love. It’s not just getting off. She needs to hear that stated in a way that makes sense to a woman. 
There is a very good chance that this is not just about sex. There is very likely something very broken in your relationship. Often it’s that the woman is not getting enough emotional intimacy. She probably cannot tell you what is missing for her because she does not know. You need to read the book “His Needs, Her Needs”. It will most likely help both of you work through defining what you need. She seems to defiantly not know how to talk about it.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Mr. J,
Please, please where condoms until this is fully resolved. Do NOT have a child unless this has really been resolved. Not for a week or a month, but for a year at least.



In the meantime:
Keep your 'tone of voice' friendly', stay upbeat and happy and keep on being funny. While doing that: Cut way back on the frequency with which you initiate the stuff below. 
- affection
- sex
- acts of service
- compliments
- I love you 
- requests to spend time with her
- gifts
- date nights 

Give her room to chase YOU. When she initiates a hug, reward that by hugging her back and smiling. 

Almost certainly she will quickly increase the rate at which she - 
asks for acts of service. You need to prevent that from happening by:
- being less available: work more and until later at night and hit the gym a little harder/longer
- banter with her, tease her, be playful - but evade, avoid, or delay any response to those requests as much as possible. 

Ideally her tone with get sharp if you have deprioritized her requests. And you want that. She will be angry and you will be calm. And you can tease her: babe, what year did slavery get repealed? 

Or even better: for that job we need two people, any chance you can help with it?

Or: I am real busy at work right now, lets see how next week plays out. 






Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Hey everyone,
> I joined this forum because I really don't know how to handle my current situation, I just don't know where to go, turn, what to do, nothing. I'm lost.
> 
> My wife and I have only been married for about one year and two months, and we almost never have sex. By almost never, I mean generally once or MAYBE twice a month. I just don't understand it, and I don't know what more I could possibly do because I do everything I can to make her happy, make her smile, take care of her, and I can't think of any reasons of why she's not attracted to me like that. Or why she doesn't care to be...
> ...


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Tracy,
As far as what turns her on, she doesn't give me specifics, which I don't understand. I've known girls who were unsure of that before, but that's when we were younger. She's in her mid 20's now and I find it hard to believe that she doesn't know. When I ask her, the response I get is either "I dunno.", "Nothing in particular", or "you." And when I say well what about me, and she will just say that at random times such as when I'm making her laugh or dancing with her or working out or working in the yard, but she doesn't act on it, and extremely rarely acts aroused.

Ele Girl, that does sound like a good book. I'll have to go pick it up, but I think the hardest part will be getting her to sit down and read it with me because normally she pushes hard against things like that. But I will try.

And Mem,
You are the second person on this forum, and around the 4th to give me that advice total. I personally feel that it could be the difference maker, but for me it is just the hardest to execute because of who I am as a person. Doesn't mean I won't try because I will for sure, but i did notice that the two people on the forum who said that are males.

So what do the ladies think of Mem and Wises advice about giving her less attention, almost stopping the initiation of intimacy, and making myself less available for her needs?


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Tracy,
> 
> So what do the ladies think of Mem and Wises advice about giving her less attention, almost stopping the initiation of intimacy, and making myself less available for her needs?


Sigh. This is a difficult issue as I am going through the same situation with my partner. Except that I am female. My sex is about once a month and it drives me nuts. The passion is gone.

OP it seems like your partner is suffering from low libido. It happens. Paying her less attention or being Mr bad guy isn't going to change that. 

I think it needs to be a combination of the two of you compromising to fit in better with each other. She needs to make more effort and you need to relax a bit more. Can you find this happy medium?


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

I think you have a bigger issue that what more attention and date nights can solve. The first years of marriage should be the best and in the sex category are also the most intense. It seems like she's not in love with you or there is a problem that needs to be addressed. 

Was she more sexual before marriage? How was your relationship while dating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

mablenc said:


> I think you have a bigger issue that what more attention and date nights can solve. The first years of marriage should be the best and in the sex category are also the most intense. It seems like she's not in love with you or there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
> 
> Was she more sexual before marriage? How was your relationship while dating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They have been together for six years in total. People's sex drive can change after a while. It happens alot


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Hibiscus,
I have been trying to reach that medium with her. Sometimes she uses the excuse that I bring sex up too much and that ruins it. So then what I did was almost completely stopped bringing it up for two months, and there was no change. Sex happened once. I would love sex everyday. That is my ideal, but I understand that for some people that is just too much so I don't expect that by any standard and she obviously has to know that considering that I've said it many times and that we barely ever have sex, and I haven't checked out yet.

Mablenc,
When we first started dating she was much more sexual, and our relationship was generally very good when we were dating until about two years in. Long story short, it was the immature "break up this week, together the next, and repeat" thing. I was sick of it. I told her if she broke up with me again for no reason that I was done. So she did, there was another stupid fight and she said we were done. So I said fine, whatever, I'm out. I went to a friends party that night, drank, and ended up fooling around with a girl (did not have sex in any form, which I know doesn't make it any better). I know this was a crappy jerk move, and as soon as I woke up the next morning I felt terrible. I hated myself, and I didn't know what to do. I told her where I was and that I drank, but initially I told her that nothing bad happened. We reconciled and everything was great. But it was killing me inside, but I knew if I told her that we would be over. Every now and then she would bring it up and be like "so nothing happened right?" and i'd say "right". Well after a month I caved and told her everything. We broke up that time for over a year, dated other people, but the whole time her family would talk to me about how miserable she was without me, and I was miserable without her. I knew I wanted to marry her, I had always felt that way. Then we got back together, got engaged, and the rest is history.


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Then you need to put your foot down. There has to be a medium otherwise this marriage isn't gonna work. You need to let her know how unhappy this is making you.

If you both don't resolve this then its just a matter of time until you end up not caring anymore. It will overide everything else that is good in your marriage. She needs to understand that


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## mablenc (Feb 26, 2013)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Hibiscus,
> I have been trying to reach that medium with her. Sometimes she uses the excuse that I bring sex up too much and that ruins it. So then what I did was almost completely stopped bringing it up for two months, and there was no change. Sex happened once. I would love sex everyday. That is my ideal, but I understand that for some people that is just too much so I don't expect that by any standard and she obviously has to know that considering that I've said it many times and that we barely ever have sex, and I haven't checked out yet.
> 
> Mablenc,
> When we first started dating she was much more sexual, and our relationship was generally very good when we were dating until about two years in. Long story short, it was the immature "break up this week, together the next, and repeat" thing. I was sick of it. I told her if she broke up with me again for no reason that I was done. So she did, there was another stupid fight and she said we were done. So I said fine, whatever, I'm out. I went to a friends party that night, drank, and ended up fooling around with a girl (did not have sex in any form, which I know doesn't make it any better). I know this was a crappy jerk move, and as soon as I woke up the next morning I felt terrible. I hated myself, and I didn't know what to do. I told her where I was and that I drank, but initially I told her that nothing bad happened. We reconciled and everything was great. But it was killing me inside, but I knew if I told her that we would be over. Every now and then she would bring it up and be like "so nothing happened right?" and i'd say "right". Well after a month I caved and told her everything. We broke up that time for over a year, dated other people, but the whole time her family would talk to me about how miserable she was without me, and I was miserable without her. I knew I wanted to marry her, I had always felt that way. Then we got back together, got engaged, and the rest is history.


Then you are in need of MC you guys have issues that need to be work on. Sex is a way of connecting and expressing your love, and desire. If you have problems lingering it makes it harder to connect in such an intimate manner. 

I will say that if you both put effort into it, you can solve it and get back into good sex bliss  You will have to undig the past and heal together so you can move on.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

hibiscus said:


> Then you need to put your foot down. There has to be a medium otherwise this marriage isn't gonna work. You need to let her know how unhappy this is making you.
> 
> If you both don't resolve this then its just a matter of time until you end up not caring anymore. It will overide everything else that is good in your marriage. She needs to understand that


I honestly don't know how else to convey to her how unhappy it makes me. I've tried talking to her face to face in a very calm manner, I've tried getting mad, I've tried getting upset or sad about it, I've tried writing her letters and emails to see if maybe it would help to not be face to face, and she says that she knows how upset it makes me and that it bothers her that she is the cause but she doesn't act on that. I don't know how else I could possibly express it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Mablenc,
I think that would definitely help. However, I have brought this up to her many times and she refuses to go. She basically has no interest at all in going to talk to someone. What I have been thinking of doing lately is just going by myself, and starting to talk to someone about it. And my hope there would be that eventually she would join me. What are peoples thoughts on that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Women and me think differently about sex.

Men want sex from any girl they meet, therefore the one that gives it up is special.

Women get approached for sex by every man they meet, so the man that wants sex is no different than any other man. 

Plus she has internal hang ups, insecurities and has been told that sex is bad.

Therefore, she used sex to "land" you, now that she has done that there is no REASON for her to have sex any more. Until she want's a kid and then you will see her become sexual.

You have to give her the REASON to be sexual with you. You don't need a reason, since you equate sex to love. She needs a reason because sex is not love to her, and she has hangups.

What is the reason? Number one, you have to provide her happiness and good feelings as a result of your marital relationship. It seems like you are doing this. Number 2, and this is absolutely crucial, she needs to know that you will leave her if the marriage is not sexual.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

I honestly don't know at all how to convey to her that I wouldn't leave her if the marriage wasn't sexual. I don't see how she wouldn't be able to tell that from all the effort I'm putting in to try and make it work. If I just wanted sex, I would have given up by now and left. That's not what I want. We have discussed that many times, or at least I've told her it a thousand times, and she has said "well what if I had a terminal illness and couldn't do it? And I've told her that is an extenuating circumstance and yes it would be hard, but I would cope. However our current circumstance is not that and so that's not a valid argument for why it's okay we don't have sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> I honestly don't know at all how to convey to her that I wouldn't leave her if the marriage wasn't sexual. I don't see how she wouldn't be able to tell that from all the effort I'm putting in to try and make it work. If I just wanted sex, I would have given up by now and left. That's not what I want. We have discussed that many times, or at least I've told her it a thousand times, and she has said "well what if I had a terminal illness and couldn't do it? And I've told her that is an extenuating circumstance and yes it would be hard, but I would cope. However our current circumstance is not that and so that's not a valid argument for why it's okay we don't have sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. She is not terminally ill. She has choices. Look my partner is seeing a sex therapist and he makes the effort when I ask him to. Admittently not always to my pace but I need to be more patient with that.
She needs to do MC with you otherwise your marriage will end


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Mablenc,
> I think that would definitely help. However, I have brought this up to her many times and she refuses to go. She basically has no interest at all in going to talk to someone. What I have been thinking of doing lately is just going by myself, and starting to talk to someone about it. And my hope there would be that eventually she would join me. What are peoples thoughts on that?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can try. No harm in it.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your response is not all that clear to me.

You don't need counseling. What on earth does a normal man who wants a sexual marriage with his wife need counseling for? 

If you did nothing to meet your wife's needs would she stick with you? 

Leaving the marriage is a process that takes time. Making her aware that you are not going to stick it out as it currently stands gives her and you plenty of time and opportunity to make changes.

It's not about getting a divorce. It's how your wife permits herself to be sexual.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I read an article once that spoke about how women were most sexually active in the first 2 years of a relationship and that after that they started to feel less desirable and excited by their SO so the sex dwindled. It sounds like your a nice man, but how aggressively do you pursue your wife? How do you initiate? Would a change in your approach work? Maybe a little more rough handling and dirty talk to make her feel sexy and irresistible? I know my blood flows wild when my H grabs my ass and whispers "I want to f**k you". When he just lies there and places my hand on himself its the total opposite. I feel like rolling over in disgust. Your approach could make or break the deal. Just saying...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Ele girl,
> 
> We spend a lot of time together during the week. Generally a lot of that time is spent in bed watching TV before we go to sleep so I won't count that as "date" time. But if you mean something like, going out to dinner, the mall, or movies then probably something like 6-10 hours a week doing date like things, maybe a little more.
> 
> ...



Have not read the rest of the thread past this. First thing I'd do is get the TV out of the bedroom. The bed is for sex and sleep. That's it. Only reason to keep it in there is if you both happen to be porn fans. But, given your situation, I'd find that highly unlikely.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> I honestly don't know how else to convey to her how unhappy it makes me. I've tried talking to her face to face in a very calm manner, I've tried getting mad, I've tried getting upset or sad about it, I've tried writing her letters and emails to see if maybe it would help to not be face to face, and she says that she knows how upset it makes me and that it bothers her that she is the cause but she doesn't act on that. I don't know how else I could possibly express it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


]

You have to decide what boundary you need to set. One way to convince her that you are serious is by saying that you both need to go to marriage counseling. Failing marriage counseling, you are going to start divorce proceedings.

Your relationship is broken. She is (theoretically) getting what she wants out of the relationship. You are not. Fix this now or somebody you'll be looking back at the once-a-month relations as "the good 'ol days."


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I am in pretty much the same situation as the OP. My marriage is 4 years old and we are down to having sex once every month or two. It bothers me to no end. Over the past two weeks, I have stopped trying. I don't initiate nor talk about it. There has been no difference in her ways so I am not sure that the strategy of stop being nice is the cure all.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I think to many women the chase is the turn on. Once we feel that chase is gone, sex isn't as thrilling and becomes more of a chore than a pleasure. It's hard for me to explain as I'm very HD, but there was a time even I shunned sex because I felt my other needs were not being met. I'd rather see my toy box then him. I was overwhelmed with many responsibilities and my H was not there to support me. It was a vicious cycle. I felt my needs were not met and in turn did not meet his needs which made him less willing to meet my needs....and on and on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

tracyishere said:


> I read an article once that spoke about how women were most sexually active in the first 2 years of a relationship and that after that they started to feel less desirable and excited by their SO so the sex dwindled. It sounds like your a nice man, but how aggressively do you pursue your wife? How do you initiate? Would a change in your approach work? Maybe a little more rough handling and dirty talk to make her feel sexy and irresistible? I know my blood flows wild when my H grabs my ass and whispers "I want to f**k you". When he just lies there and places my hand on himself its the total opposite. I feel like rolling over in disgust. Your approach could make or break the deal. Just saying...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Honestly, I do a number of different things. Sometimes we just role around in bed and joke around having fun and we end up having sex, so sometimes I try to initiate that way, but as you can see it doesn't always work. Other times, I try the lazy approach that you mentioned your husband sometimes tries, and sometimes that works. I've also tried the aggressive sexy approach, and that rarely works with her. She knows I find her irresistible. I can't keep my hands off her lol so I don't think it's that. And yes, I've also tried many, many times to be romantic ie. making her a candle lot dinner or surprising her with flowers and/ or a poem, and those things also work sometimes. But I have always felt that sex in a marriage is something that both parties should want and enjoy, not something I man should have to constantly go above and behind for.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> I am in pretty much the same situation as the OP. My marriage is 4 years old and we are down to having sex once every month or two. It bothers me to no end. Over the past two weeks, I have stopped trying. I don't initiate nor talk about it. There has been no difference in her ways so I am not sure that the strategy of stop being nice is the cure all.


It's not the cureall. Sometimes it works. You can pull attention and responsiveness. They may come get some of it back through the sex.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Honestly, I do a number of different things. Sometimes we just role around in bed and joke around having fun and we end up having sex, so sometimes I try to initiate that way, but as you can see it doesn't always work. Other times, I try the lazy approach that you mentioned your husband sometimes tries, and sometimes that works. I've also tried the aggressive sexy approach, and that rarely works with her. She knows I find her irresistible. I can't keep my hands off her lol so I don't think it's that. And yes, I've also tried many, many times to be romantic ie. making her a candle lot dinner or surprising her with flowers and/ or a poem, and those things also work sometimes. But I have always felt that sex in a marriage is something that both parties should want and enjoy, not something I man should have to constantly go above and behind for.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Sex is not something everybody enjoys. Sex can be just one more thing on the to do list for some. She may have been more open to sex when you first met because she was trying to win you over. Which is what the withdrawal of attention appears to do. Make her crave you, your touch, your love. 

The problem I see with that is that once she receives it she may not feel the need to continue swooning for you anymore. And things will be back to the same old same old. I think your wife is LD. and you may be headed down a very lonely path... 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MrJust,
I have good news:
- This is likely fixable
- You don't have to be a JERK in any way to fix it

You do have to learn the difference between 'conflict' and 'combat'. 
Because your wife NEEDS conflict, and when you deprive her of it, she becomes destructive/combative. 

You have to develop the 'skills' to have healthy conflict with her. At a certain skill level it becomes a 'sport' and you may find yourself liking it. 

You posted that in your early dating cycle, she repeatedly broke up and then got back together with you. 

This is my guess: she would treat you badly or make unreasonable demands. You would bend over backwards trying to avoid conflict. Eventually she would break up with you. Then after a while she would 'make up' with you. That cycle was emotionally exhausting to you. But she had lost most of her respect for you by the time you stated your boundary which was: I will not allow you to continue 'breaking up with me' for no apparent reason and then 'making up' with me shortly thereafter. And that loss of respect is why she blew right past that boundary. Partly didn't believe you had the strength and partly had lost her desire to stay with you. 

And she did most of that because she NEEDED conflict, and when she couldn't get you to provide it, she would escalate to the point of combat / destructive behaviors. 

You believe: 
The marriage would be great IF ONLY she would have sex with me. 

And because you are a decent chap you have worked backwards one step to: 
She would have sex with me IF ONLY she felt sexual desire. 

I am going to keep working backwards for you. 
I believe: The marriage would be great IF ONLY:
- She would have sex with you 
Because she felt
- sexual desire OR 
- wanted more emotional intimacy OR
- had a strong desire to please YOU
Which she will feel IF ONLY:
- you provide her the emotional EXCITEMENT she needs 
Which will happen IF ONLY:
- you learn to have healthy and regular conflict with her because doing so DEMONSTRATES your emotional strength and SELF RESPECT
Which will happen IF ONLY:
You learn to manage your NEED to constantly seek her approval (weakness)
AND 
YOUR fear of her disapproval/rejection (weakness)


You believe that you are bombarding her with love and kindness in the form of compliments, and statements of love, and hugs, and expressions of sexual desire and requests to spend time together and gifts and acts of service AND sacrifices you make for her.

SHE experiences that as if it were a bad drug she is addicted to. She loves the attention and financial support and stability. 
AND 
She HATES the awful side effects. You say 'I love you' and she hears 'Do you love me?' And she hates feeling smothered, of constantly having to either: respond or reassure you in a way that isn't very honest or feel guilty for not doing so. So she is either feeling dishonest or guilty. 

This relentless non-stop tug of war feels AT LEAST as bad for her as it does for you. She loves and is addicted to your LOVE for her, because it is real. And she loathes, your WEAKNESS for her and your unending demands that she carry the ever growing weight of your insecurities. 

If you are now beginning to understand and accept how this feels to her, you can begin to address it. What you are doing is just as painful to her as it is to you. 

And when that subsurface tug of war bubbles up and you finally do show anger, well, to her it is just a higher intensity example of you conveying your weakness for her, and your need for her to love you more than she does. 

And that my man is exactly WHY she needs conflict. She NEEDS to
see that you can calmly, firmly and even playfully demonstrate your ability to manage your love for her. 

If you can find a way to give her the conflict she needs, you may find everything else falling into place. 















Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Hey everyone,
> I joined this forum because I really don't know how to handle my current situation, I just don't know where to go, turn, what to do, nothing. I'm lost.
> 
> My wife and I have only been married for about one year and two months, and we almost never have sex. By almost never, I mean generally once or MAYBE twice a month. I just don't understand it, and I don't know what more I could possibly do because I do everything I can to make her happy, make her smile, take care of her, and I can't think of any reasons of why she's not attracted to me like that. Or why she doesn't care to be...
> ...








Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Hey everyone,
> I joined this forum because I really don't know how to handle my current situation, I just don't know where to go, turn, what to do, nothing. I'm lost.
> 
> My wife and I have only been married for about one year and two months, and we almost never have sex. By almost never, I mean generally once or MAYBE twice a month. I just don't understand it, and I don't know what more I could possibly do because I do everything I can to make her happy, make her smile, take care of her, and I can't think of any reasons of why she's not attracted to me like that. Or why she doesn't care to be...
> ...


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> MrJust,
> I have good news:
> - This is likely fixable
> - You don't have to be a JERK in any way to fix it
> ...


Cliff Notes on this one: Your wife is a drama queen. Give her something to be dramatic about.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hibiscus,
She has no desire for him. 

There is only one way I know to quickly and completely kill the desire that a young healthy woman feels for the young, handsome man she finds physically attractive. 




QUOTE=hibiscus;4286074]They have been together for six years in total. People's sex drive can change after a while. It happens alot[/QUOTE]


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Hibiscus,
> She has no desire for him.
> 
> There is only one way I know to quickly and completely kill the desire that a young healthy woman feels for the young, handsome man she finds physically attractive.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

How do you kill it? How do you recreate it?


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Mem,

I really do appreciate your post, and there were some great points. However, I should have been more clear when talking about the period of time when we were dating where were continuously breaking up. When we would break up and get back together again on and off there was no make up sex. It was not like we would have the scrape a conflict and then we would make up and everything be great we would have amazing sex. During that time. Some of the causes for our major fights were the lack of sex. The best sex was in the first year of the relationship, and during that time there was not very much conflict.

Also I do generally stand up for myself and allow for some conflict without getting insanely angry and providing healthy banter for the BS that she might get mad about. I do think that Many of your points are true in the sense that I could probably do more to pushback when she is trying to get me to bend over backwards for different things.

I also think your point about her respect for me being nearly completely gone are good ones as well.

P. s. What does LD and HD me? I have seen people use it on this forum and I am unsure of the meaning. thank you


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

LD: low sex drive

HD: high sex drive


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Thanks Tracy. I had a feeling that's what it stood for I just wanted to be sure.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

My own advice to you is divorce. Nothing you do will ever make it better. Forcing her is not really what you want. I know this is hard on you but you dont really have a choice. You did mention that it hurted her. Have you tried dillators. 

Remember you are not alone as others here have said. But no seems to have yet said they have 'cured' their wife from it. I dont believe there is a cure. 

You say you talk to her a lot about it and she has an answer for everything. Maybe she enjoys your discomfort more than the sex. You are really playing the game up to her and she is winning. She doesnt seem to have anything to lose. 

I can only repeat get out while you can. The longer you stay the harder it will be. Otherwise if you must stay find someone else for the sex. Maybe if your wife realises youre going to do that she will realise that the game is not that one sided in her favor. I would be surprised if you havent mentioned it yet to her. 

Again no books or counselling will help your wife. She needs a sharp lesson of how to behave to a man. I have suggested two like divorce or another women. There may be others. But unless you do something drastic or she contemplates you will she wont change.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

You are completely right that I have mentioned both of those things to her. I have most definitely brought up divorce and told her that sometimes I feel it's my only option, but then she only gets defensive. And I mentioned before that in all seriousness maybe I should just be with other women and then she won't have to listen to me complain. Obviously that went over like a fart in church. I've tried nearly everything. I'm definitely going to try a few of the things that people have mentioned here. The advice and support has been amazing so far and made me feel a bit better about my situation.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

If you are HD and she is truly LD even in her mid 20's I just don't see how this can end well for you if you stay. Be prepared to sign on for this same kind of treatment and frustration for the rest of your life.

If this is a power game for her, or she is withholding sex for other reasons, then you need to find the source and deal with them. If she stonewalls you on casual discussion then you have very few options...either counseling or threaten to find another woman to have sex with. As distasteful as what accept suggested is, that may be the final card. 

And until you get this worked out, absolutely do not get her pregnant. That LD may wind up at no Drive after a kid and you will spend the rest of your life in misery.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

I know what you mean. It seems to be what everyone is starting to say. And as far as the finding another woman thing goes, when I said it earlier it sounded like I was threatening to cheat, which isn't the case. The way I meant to say it was that I brought it up to her as an honest proposition that if she truly doesn't want to have sex then why not just send me elsewhere for that so it no longer has to be on her list of things to worry about. But again, she hated that idea, as I figured the vast majority of women would.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

MJ,
One year of good sex. 

One year of maybe ok sex. 

Followed by 3-4 years of intense fighting about sex at which point you married her? 

Why did you propose to her and then marry her if she clearly didn't / doesn't like having sex with you? 

I am not being combative, I genuinely want to know. 

So for all that time: You have loved her, and she has let you love her. 

She does NOT respect you. 




Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Mem,
> 
> I really do appreciate your post, and there were some great points. However, I should have been more clear when talking about the period of time when we were dating where were continuously breaking up. When we would break up and get back together again on and off there was no make up sex. It was not like we would have the scrape a conflict and then we would make up and everything be great we would have amazing sex. During that time. Some of the causes for our major fights were the lack of sex. The best sex was in the first year of the relationship, and during that time there was not very much conflict.
> 
> ...


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

We broke up for a year in the middle and when we got back together things were much better with the exception of the sex. We didn't fight like we used to and we were very happy. And I understand that maybe we should have worked out the sex issues prior to the marriage. But besides that we were very happy, and she was going with the "once we are engaged" strategy, and then the "once we are married" strategy. And yes, I believed it. I know I want to be with her, and I love her very much. But I also know that I can't allow her to treat me this way.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

I did not get the impression that you threatened it. You seem like a nice guy just trying to figure things out and come up with a workable solution. It remains to be seen, but there may not be one.



Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> The way I meant to say it was that I brought it up to her as an honest proposition that if she truly doesn't want to have sex then why not just send me elsewhere for that so it no longer has to be on her list of things to worry about. But again, she hated that idea, as I figured the vast majority of women would.


She knows that as soon as that happens, you will know what you are missing and send her packing.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

MEM, 

Seems to me from their history that it could be a respect issue or just as easily be the old bait and switch on sex drive. 

Without resorting to ultimatums, what would you suggest to the OP to figure out which one it is?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> I know what you mean. It seems to be what everyone is starting to say. And as far as the finding another woman thing goes, when I said it earlier it sounded like I was threatening to cheat, which isn't the case. The way I meant to say it was that I brought it up to her as an honest proposition that if she truly doesn't want to have sex then why not just send me elsewhere for that so it no longer has to be on her list of things to worry about. But again, she hated that idea, as I figured the vast majority of women would.


You seem to be missing a key issue here. That being, she does not want to have sex with you but she DOES like you fawning over her, doing stuff for her, devoting yourself to her. She's perfectly content to take, and take, and take (which is really bizarre and IMO in itself suggests some major issues).

So - unsurprisingly - she shoots down any idea that explores the lack of sex from her side. But, she also shoots down the idea of you getting it somewhere else because that means she will not be the undivided focus of your life.

I don't even mean you might get extra tired of her and divorce (which may happen). Every night you spend with your intimate partner is one that you won't be of service to her and stoking her ego. Every $200 you spend on dinner and a show is that much left available to her.

This goes beyond just a sex issue. Your wife is milking you for all you're worth in an overall sense. Trust me - I've lived it.

You don't ask her for permission to sleep around. You announce that, as long as she is not meeting the need, she has no right to demand your fidelity or anything else. See the difference.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Again the Dr. Obvious question...

What are the financial basics of the OP and his partner? Do they both work earning similar money or is he or she putting up the funds for running the household...

MEM's conflict vs combat point is also good. Conflict is cheap, any two people can scream their lungs out. But combat is the real thing where actions have consequences... If conflict is what she's after ratchet it up a few notches to combat level... No point holding back, especially if a 180 and the big D word are on the table.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

The financial situation is such that we both work full time with good jobs and similar pay. We both contribute equally on that front. My problem with telling her that I'm just going to get sex from another woman is such that she won't take it seriously unless it happens, and if it does then she would end the marriage. I know that divorce could very well be the only option in the end, but I do love her and would ideally like to work it out.

I sent her a long email yesterday, which of course she didn't take the time to talk to me about, but I figure I'll give her to the end of the week because of the fact that this week we are both extremely busy with work and then decide where to go from there. I know it may sound like I'm playing into her hand by not forcing the issue, but I know if I do that it's going to get me nowhere as far as an actual discussion goes.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> I sent her a long email yesterday, which of course she didn't take the time to talk to me about, but I figure I'll give her to the end of the week because of the fact that this week we are both extremely busy with work and then decide where to go from there. I know it may sound like I'm playing into her hand by not forcing the issue, but I know if I do that it's going to get me nowhere as far as an actual discussion goes.


The unfortunate truth is your wife sees the current marital state as _optimal_. Any change (except for you giving up on sex altogether) is going to make her less happy because the current balance of effort is tilted so sharply in her favor. She does not like you in that way and is innately selfish. Why would she change now after being this way for four years?

Make no mistake - no amount of you talking to her will help this issue. She has created an adversarial dynamic, and your actions must reflect this. The only power you have is that the current situation cannot exist without your cooperation. You can't make her have sex with you, but you can stop doing for her.

Your next communication regarding this issue needs to be that the current dynamic is dead, forever. She can choose to meet your need in exchange for what you provide for her, or she is free to find someone with whom she is more compatible. Give her a deadline within which to act, then stick to it.

Finally, if she chooses to attempt to meet your needs, IC for her and MC for you both should be part of the deal. This is not just an LD issue. Unless you address her underlying issues, any improvement in sex is likely to be short-lived and may generate even more ill-will in the long run than exists now.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

DTO,
I think that is a pretty good assessment. I just need to execute. It's not that I haven't considered these things before, but rather that I have failed in executing my change of attitude.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

When we first got married, in our early 20's...I couldn't wait for sex.

Boy, was I ever disappointed...I was like...all the fuss for THIS????

And yes, I had the Big O...even so, I still would have rather had the extra sleep or finished watching my TV show.

And sometimes it did hurt.

I think our society over inflates sex....people go into it expecting fireworks right off and sometimes it takes a while.

Now that I've been married a while (35 yrs) sex is all I think about.

Go figure.....


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

accept said:


> My own advice to you is divorce.




Really?

I guess that whole in sickness and in health, for better or worse vow thing is really meaningless....


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

LonelyinLove said:


> Really?
> 
> I guess that whole in sickness and in health, for better or worse vow thing is really meaningless....


I am not sure if you are a man or a woman. But this woman is not sick. Worse doesnt mean if you are intentionally so.

I will also surprise you and say that if a woman (or man) will not have sex even for good reasons it is time for divorce.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

accept said:


> I am not sure if you are a man or a woman. But this woman is not sick. Worse doesnt mean if you are intentionally so.
> 
> I will also surprise you and say that if a woman (or man) will not have sex even for good reasons it is time for divorce.


How do you know she is not sick? She could have a hormonal dysfunction, she could have a thyroid condition, she could have endometriosis that can cause painful intercourse.

Maybe the OP sucks in the sack (sorry OP…just making a blanket statement), maybe she doesn’t know how to relax, maybe she’s embarrassed by her own body, maybe she was molested in the past, maybe, maybe, maybe….

If my H and I had split over every issue I see posters on TAM advising splitting for….our marriage would have never survived past the first 10 years.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

What you may be seeing too is career frustration manifesting itself into other areas if life. Project not going well? Withdraw. Boss said something? Withdraw. Non deserving coworker got promoted? Withdraw.

From personal experience at least it looks to me that many women are chasing the corporate rainbow and failing to capture that they stress themselves to oblivion. Men on the other hand are more practical and tolerate corporate life much more...


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

It will never get better. It will only get worse. The psychological and physical effects of your sexless being held hostage by your wife will wreak havoc on your life as long as you stay with her.

You will be irrtable, angry, unapproachable, ill-willed. I speak from experience friend.

And it only gets worse.

Believe me when I tell you this because I say it with all sincerity. If you have no children with this woman, even if you love her, you have to move on. She doesn't love you the same way. A woman who truly loves you WANTS you physically.

Hormones, and medicines and herbs and spices won't fix it. That's all fairytales. For whatever reason she doesn't want you. YOu will only EVER find peace of mind with a woman who wants you physically.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Lonely,
Her hormones are off a bit and she is "working at that" with her doctor. The reason I put that in quoted is because she is expecting a miracle medicine. She doesn't want to or at least hasn't shown any initiative to put effort in to really take care of that part of the issue. She has also admitted to me that hormones are only half the problem. Yet, she fails to try and correct the other half of the problem as well, and it is the other half of the problem that I have no narrowed down yet. It is clearly with her mentality about sex or herself or the past or me or something, but I am not sure yet. 

John,
It's not a work stress. Someone's she uses work as an excuse, but in general she loves her job. She switched last year from a career that was stressing her out beyond belief and that used to be an excuse for not having sex. Now she loves her job, but the sex has not changed.

I know that I say every time she doesn't want to have sex it is an excuse, but that is because the way I see it, if a couple regularly has sex and every now and then one partner doesn't want too then there's likely a reason. When the couple almost never has sex and it's because one partner always "has a reason", it's excuses.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Until she realizes she could possibly lose you nothing will change in my opinion. You know you can't change her you can only change what you are willing to tolerate.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

I agree. And I know I can't change her. The only way for her to change is for her to want to change and to truly put in the effort.


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> I agree. And I know I can't change her. The only way for her to change is for her to want to change and to truly put in the effort.


I don 't disagree, but I can't agree with treating her like a cheating wife before other avenues are addressed.

I've been in the LD cycle myself...Honestly, I didn't think about it...I didn't have a plan to hurt my H...I just didn't think about it at all...and when he wanted to I was like...Really? Right now? I'm supposed to just turn-on like that? And I wasn't able to turn on, it's wasn't a "plan", it's just how it was.

The girl needs a complete physical...including T3, T4, TSH, and maybe Thyroid Antibodies bloodwork. A GYN exam, and then some counseling if nothing physical is found.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Lonely,
I understand that. I've been pushing her for all that for a long time. But like I said, she doesn't put it as a priority no matter how much I stress it. She has been to the doctors once to talk about, was one medicine, but it have her headaches so she came off it. Now she's trying something else that is supposed to help hormone levels in women. But it stops there. She doesn't try to push in any other directions, nor is she making it a priority to have her levels checked again or see a specialist.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Lonely,
> I understand that. I've been pushing her for all that for a long time. But like I said, she doesn't put it as a priority no matter how much I stress it. She has been to the doctors once to talk about, was one medicine, but it have her headaches so she came off it. Now she's trying something else that is supposed to help hormone levels in women. But it stops there. She doesn't try to push in any other directions, nor is she making it a priority to have her levels checked again or see a specialist.


Sigh- It's time then to make a tough decision then. Life is too short but that's just me.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

She got used to not having sex during the high stress part of her life, so why change now? 

It's quite simple actually. It's not like if she drops her work hours from 70 to 50 or 40 the libido will magically reappear. She may feel resentment from the last place that caries over, maybe the current pay is not as good, etc.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

LonelyinLove said:


> I don 't disagree, but I can't agree with treating her like a cheating wife before other avenues are addressed.
> 
> I've been in the LD cycle myself...Honestly, I didn't think about it...I didn't have a plan to hurt my H...I just didn't think about it at all...and when he wanted to I was like...Really? Right now? I'm supposed to just turn-on like that? And I wasn't able to turn on, it's wasn't a "plan", it's just how it was.
> 
> The girl needs a complete physical...including T3, T4, TSH, and maybe Thyroid Antibodies bloodwork. A GYN exam, and then some counseling if nothing physical is found.


If someone cares enough to do all these checks and tests, they would be having sex just because...


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## hibiscus (Jul 30, 2012)

LonelyinLove said:


> I don 't disagree, but I can't agree with treating her like a cheating wife before other avenues are addressed.
> 
> I've been in the LD cycle myself...Honestly, I didn't think about it...I didn't have a plan to hurt my H...I just didn't think about it at all...and when he wanted to I was like...Really? Right now? I'm supposed to just turn-on like that? And I wasn't able to turn on, it's wasn't a "plan", it's just how it was.
> 
> The girl needs a complete physical...including T3, T4, TSH, and maybe Thyroid Antibodies bloodwork. A GYN exam, and then some counseling if nothing physical is found.


What's T3 etc?


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## LonelyinLove (Jul 11, 2013)

T3 is a blood test to determine is the Thyroid is functioning properly,
T4 is another test, although usually done while on Thyroid meds, sometimes it is done as a baseline before, TSH evaluates thyroid function, Thyroid Antibodies test can diagnose and distinguish forms of Thyroid disease.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just,
Most sexless guys talk about how they 'stand up for themselves'. 

They say that they banter, and push back. 

Until you acknowledge a few things, they remain miserable:
- No matter what they SAY, they aren't willing to destabilize the relationship. 

They won't do (or refuse to do) anything that REALLY upsets their partner, and then dig in and wait until their partner comes and asks/begs for relief.

You are afraid of your wife. Very afraid. And the stench of that fear is very, very hostile to desire. 

Address that or accept a life of crazily frustrating virtual celibacy. 

Either way, staying with her will result in celibacy. You have folded way too many times for her to ever re-learn respect for you. 


QUOTE=Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand;4299114]Mem,

I really do appreciate your post, and there were some great points. However, I should have been more clear when talking about the period of time when we were dating where were continuously breaking up. When we would break up and get back together again on and off there was no make up sex. It was not like we would have the scrape a conflict and then we would make up and everything be great we would have amazing sex. During that time. Some of the causes for our major fights were the lack of sex. The best sex was in the first year of the relationship, and during that time there was not very much conflict.

Also I do generally stand up for myself and allow for some conflict without getting insanely angry and providing healthy banter for the BS that she might get mad about. I do think that Many of your points are true in the sense that I could probably do more to pushback when she is trying to get me to bend over backwards for different things.

I also think your point about her respect for me being nearly completely gone are good ones as well.

P. s. What does LD and HD me? I have seen people use it on this forum and I am unsure of the meaning. thank you[/QUOTE]


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

LonelyinLove said:


> How do you know she is not sick? She could have a hormonal dysfunction, she could have a thyroid condition, she could have endometriosis that can cause painful intercourse.
> 
> Maybe the OP sucks in the sack (sorry OP…just making a blanket statement), maybe she doesn’t know how to relax, maybe she’s embarrassed by her own body, maybe she was molested in the past, maybe, maybe, maybe….
> 
> If my H and I had split over every issue I see posters on TAM advising splitting for….our marriage would have never survived past the first 10 years.


All these maybe's of yours. We havent heard the woman's side all we can go on here is what we hear from the man's side. Our advice is if he is telling the truth. So far YOU are the only one (man or woman) who has said he should 'stick' it out apparently for ever. 

This is not a split over an ISSUE. This is one of the fundamentals of marriage. Denying a man his rights. Worse than denying him anything else. I know many women do this as can be seen from posts on here. But that doesnt make it right. 

Even if she may not be up to sex, she has to pretend she is, that is what a good wife does. There are two people in the marriage and both have to work for each other not just think of themselves. If you have so many 'splitting issues' there must be something wrong with yours.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

I do believe in marriage, but I also believe that life is too short to be miserable. You see men on here talking about YEARS of sexless marriage and how this has devastated them emotionally and physically. I know as a HD women being rejected has a profound affect on my overall confidence level and self-esteem. I don't think anyone (man or woman) should have to put up with that kind of abuse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

*Violent allergic reaction*

Accept,
When you get married the ONLY rights that you have are to define and enforce YOUR boundaries. Boundary enforcement is predicated on one and only one concept: the willingness to terminate the relationship. 

That's it.




QUOTE=accept;4314026]All these maybe's of yours. We havent heard the woman's side all we can go on here is what we hear from the man's side. Our advice is if he is telling the truth. So far YOU are the only one (man or woman) who has said he should 'stick' it out apparently for ever. 

This is not a split over an ISSUE. This is one of the fundamentals of marriage. Denying a man his rights. Worse than denying him anything else. I know many women do this as can be seen from posts on here. But that doesnt make it right. 

Even if she may not be up to sex, she has to pretend she is, that is what a good wife does. There are two people in the marriage and both have to work for each other not just think of themselves. If you have so many 'splitting issues' there must be something wrong with yours.[/QUOTE]


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> They won't do (or refuse to do) anything that REALLY upsets their partner, and then dig in and wait until their partner comes and asks/begs for relief.


I actually do what is humanely (inhumanely lol) possible to ensure my partner is outside her comfort zone. Nearly 180 on the good ole' engagement meter. Apathy and indifference, the works. With constant reminders that if she wants a real marriage she needs to fulfill her side...

Guess what. In hard core LD cases it does not work. Someone who's that much screwed up will not bother with minor inconveniences like having no partner available and so on. The marriage gets impacted but that's all standard operating procedure... 

Ultimately both sides learn to live in a South Korea / North Korea type arrangement until divorce or death.

The only leverage the non LD has is to make life as intolerable as they can within reason... An eye for an eye and all that... Detach, ignore, and if it fits your game plan stay, or bail.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LonelyinLove said:


> How do you know she is not sick? She could have a hormonal dysfunction, she could have a thyroid condition, she could have endometriosis that can cause painful intercourse.
> 
> Maybe the OP sucks in the sack (sorry OP…just making a blanket statement), maybe she doesn’t know how to relax, maybe she’s embarrassed by her own body, maybe she was molested in the past, maybe, maybe, maybe….
> 
> If my H and I had split over every issue I see posters on TAM advising splitting for….our marriage would have never survived past the first 10 years.


Well, if any of those issues really do exist, then why is she refusing to deal with them? did you see the part where she refuses to get professional help? She should be striving for a way to meet her responsibility to him.

Bottom line: there is a problem, and she is actively obstructing the OP's attempts to identify and overcome it. She doesn't see him as her equal and worthy of her effort. That is a character issue, and likely will pop up over and over during the marriage whenever his perspective doesn't line up with hers. THAT is why divorce was recommended.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

LonelyinLove said:


> I don 't disagree, but I can't agree with treating her like a cheating wife before other avenues are addressed.
> 
> I've been in the LD cycle myself...Honestly, I didn't think about it...I didn't have a plan to hurt my H...I just didn't think about it at all...and when he wanted to I was like...Really? Right now? I'm supposed to just turn-on like that? And I wasn't able to turn on, it's wasn't a "plan", it's just how it was.
> 
> The girl needs a complete physical...including T3, T4, TSH, and maybe Thyroid Antibodies bloodwork. A GYN exam, and then some counseling if nothing physical is found.


Hi there. I totally get where you're coming from, but you're missing the point.You were not supposed to get turned on "just like that". You were supposed to proactively take action after the first one or two rejections so that you would not reject him three, four, or five times (or even more).

Yours was not an issue of you "not thinking about it". It was more of an issue that you knew your husband was unsatisfied sexually and chose to not do anything about it. that really makes all the difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DashaSicard (Sep 18, 2013)

I read your story freaked me out when I read it some of the aspects are near identical to mine and my husband's. Down to the xbox and the running shoes. Anyway, so one of the issues in our relationship that I think that I struggled with were obviously honesty and trust. I don't know if that is an issue for you guys. If you guys are fighting, is there something that you feel like you guys seems to be arguing about quite a bit? Though now my husband and I have had a couple years to regain trust, so that isn't really an issue for us anymore, but it was the big downfall for our relationship sexually and the attraction I once had to my husband. I think now our relationship feels kind of meh. We get along great but we are like friends so it's almost like I have friend zoned him. I am however on here because I have tried counseling and eating certain food and taking meds and all that too up my libido, but I think it's an emotional block to be honest. I hope it's not, but I am pretty sure it is. Every day I am like I am going to not **** block and have some good ol' fashion fun and then it we have down time and I am doing all I can to avoid it. =/ meh So maybe we can figure this out together.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Dasha,
I read your story as well, and left a post on your thread. Our stories are fairly similar. However, there definitely were some key differences (which I mentioned in the other post). I was assuming that by the xbox and running shoes you just meant the details. But I do think it could be beneficial to us both to provide advice from the opposite perspectives while trying to work these things out at the same time.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

John,
I think you already know this: 
- Your W acts like someone who doesn't believe it is 'possible' for her to be much happier in the marriage, so she doesn't have much to lose by antagonizing/deprioritizing you. 
- Compounding that, she is confident you won't leave her. 

You on the other hand believe (quote rightly) that you could be much happier with either:
- A good marriage or
- A different partner 

You get props for being a high functioning person and making the best of it. It does however look like you are avoiding the 'short list' of actions that might cause her to leave you. 

Is that because a divorce would make it impossible for you to fully fund your kids education plans, or the guilt/fear your wife would unravel without you? Your commitment to the kids is exceptional. I wonder if they would want you to make this large a sacrifice to 'fully fund' their educations. 




john117 said:


> I actually do what is humanely (inhumanely lol) possible to ensure my partner is outside her comfort zone. Nearly 180 on the good ole' engagement meter. Apathy and indifference, the works. With constant reminders that if she wants a real marriage she needs to fulfill her side...
> 
> Guess what. In hard core LD cases it does not work. Someone who's that much screwed up will not bother with minor inconveniences like having no partner available and so on. The marriage gets impacted but that's all standard operating procedure...
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just,
You don't really believe your wife's desire issues link to trust. 





Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Dasha,
> I read your story as well, and left a post on your thread. Our stories are fairly similar. However, there definitely were some key differences (which I mentioned in the other post). I was assuming that by the xbox and running shoes you just meant the details. But I do think it could be beneficial to us both to provide advice from the opposite perspectives while trying to work these things out at the same time.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Mem,

Is that a question? Or are you telling me I don't believe that? I'm very confused about your last post. 

And while I don't necessarily believe that my wife's issues stem from trust issues, I wouldn't say it's an impossibility due to what happened when we were dating.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just,
If you had a 'trust' issue tied to fidelity you would know. It would be a theme with her. A theme in your marriage. 

Her 'trust' issue with you, is that your words and actions are completely out of synch. You made a 'vow' to love her based on the desperate hope that you could somehow get her to love you more than she does. You never stated or enforced a boundary of:

I won't stay in a relationship with someone who doesn't love me enough for it to 'bring out my best'. 

You did the opposite. Without ever addressing this huge disconnect you got engaged and then married her. 

Everyone makes compromises with 'partner compatibility'. But you cant have two people standing at the altar, each telling a huge but related lie. 
Your lie was 'I love her but dislike the way she treats me. But I will find a way to 'fix' her.'

And her lie was 'I love the way he treats me, but I don't really love him and worse I can't really respect him because he is so easy to manipulate'. 

That is the theme you have very clearly depicted. You can change the topic to something else now. In fact you can even try to sell yourself and your wife on the idea that your one time action so many years ago 'caused all this'. That will allow you to have a single, clear goal which will 'fix' all this. 

And it will take your mind off the truth which is that each time you continued to pursue her in the face of her countless 'rejections', that pursuit acted like acid on:
- your self esteem and 
- her respect for you as a MAN, not as a friend, but as a sexual partner


QUOTE=Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand;4338186]Mem,

Is that a question? Or are you telling me I don't believe that? I'm very confused about your last post. 

And while I don't necessarily believe that my wife's issues stem from trust issues, I wouldn't say it's an impossibility due to what happened when we were dating.[/QUOTE]


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Mem,

I think you bring up some good points, but I didn't marry her with the hope I could fix her. People can't fix other people, only themselves. I've just always hoped she would open up and we would get over whatever the issue is. But clearly that isn't happening because she clearly doesn't want to put in the effort to fix something that isn't an issue for her. And as far as my self-esteem goes, I don't think it's been damaged by this. If anything I've grown much more confident and full of self-worth as the years have past, I'm not saying that it has had anything to do with this relationship, but I definitely don't think badly of myself. If anything I probably believe too much in myself sometimes.

Anyways, after a lot of thinking, reading your posts and those from others I am starting to come to the conclusion that my wife will never bother to change simply because she doesn't believe she has to. And that even if I leave she will find someone else to fill the void. She will find someone else who will do her bidding while not having to hold up her side of the relationship. Or maybe she will find someone and they will have a perfect life. Who knows. And I hate to say such awful things, but that's what happens. All I know is that I'll give the best push I can for a while, maybe 6 months, maybe less, maybe even a year, but no more, and if things don't improve or feel like they'll ever get to a fair and good place then I will be forced to move on.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Mem,
> 
> I think you bring up some good points, but I didn't marry her with the hope I could fix her. People can't fix other people, only themselves. I've just always hoped she would open up and we would get over whatever the issue is. But clearly that isn't happening because she clearly doesn't want to put in the effort to fix something that isn't an issue for her. And as far as my self-esteem goes, I don't think it's been damaged by this. If anything I've grown much more confident and full of self-worth as the years have past, I'm not saying that it has had anything to do with this relationship, but I definitely don't think badly of myself. If anything I probably believe too much in myself sometimes.
> 
> Anyways, after a lot of thinking, reading your posts and those from others I am starting to come to the conclusion that my wife will never bother to change simply because she doesn't believe she has to. And that even if I leave she will find someone else to fill the void. She will find someone else who will do her bidding while not having to hold up her side of the relationship. Or maybe she will find someone and they will have a perfect life. Who knows. And I hate to say such awful things, but that's what happens. All I know is that I'll give the best push I can for a while, maybe 6 months, maybe less, maybe even a year, but no more, and if things don't improve or feel like they'll ever get to a fair and good place then I will be forced to move on.


May as well do a 6 months quest to raise your MAP level.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just,
The best way to gauge 'confidence' in a particular area is by measuring fear. The absence of fear, or the ability to fully manage your fear, is incredibly powerful. The absence of fear is why your wife feels so safe rejecting you. And the presence of fear (yours) is why you have tolerated 5 years of rejection. 

You have no real leverage. If the marriage ends, she doesn't need to find someone else she 'loves and respects'. She simply needs to find another man who loves her. She replaces you with him, and her quality of life is about the same. She clearly believes it won't be hard. 

Your very obvious fear of 'losing her', drove a proposal and a marriage. It impairs your judgement. For instance the 'letter' you just sent her. Another 'confidently worded' message about how you dislike the way she treats you. There is nothing 'confident' about telling someone over and over about your unmet needs. 

You on the other hand, are so afraid of 'your outcome', you don't even mention it below. You avoid it. You talk about divorce in terms of 'what will happen to her', not what will happen to you. 

I wonder if at some level you are hoping she gets pregnant, as that is the one thing that will make it harder for her to walk away, or to calmly watch you walk away. 

Unless one of you is medically sterile, if you have sex without a condom - you are truly at the pinnacle of self destructive behavior. 





Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand said:


> Mem,
> 
> I think you bring up some good points, but I didn't marry her with the hope I could fix her. People can't fix other people, only themselves. I've just always hoped she would open up and we would get over whatever the issue is. But clearly that isn't happening because she clearly doesn't want to put in the effort to fix something that isn't an issue for her. And as far as my self-esteem goes, I don't think it's been damaged by this. If anything I've grown much more confident and full of self-worth as the years have past, I'm not saying that it has had anything to do with this relationship, but I definitely don't think badly of myself. If anything I probably believe too much in myself sometimes.
> 
> Anyways, after a lot of thinking, reading your posts and those from others I am starting to come to the conclusion that my wife will never bother to change simply because she doesn't believe she has to. And that even if I leave she will find someone else to fill the void. She will find someone else who will do her bidding while not having to hold up her side of the relationship. Or maybe she will find someone and they will have a perfect life. Who knows. And I hate to say such awful things, but that's what happens. All I know is that I'll give the best push I can for a while, maybe 6 months, maybe less, maybe even a year, but no more, and if things don't improve or feel like they'll ever get to a fair and good place then I will be forced to move on.


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## Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand (Sep 16, 2013)

Mem,

There is no way I want to her to get pregnant right now. And I mean that with every ounce of my being. There is not one part of me that wants that. I know there is a strong chance this relationship ends in divorce. I've come to terms with that, and honestly I know I'll be okay. It'll suck for a while, but I'll be okay. I won't need to run into the arms of another woman either. I'll just do my own thing and whatever happens happens. But the reality is, I do love my wife, and I know that I want to be with her. However, I'm honestly at the edge of how much I can take with her selfish behavior and I mean that. I would just rather see a change of heart from her, no matter how unlikely.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just,
I am sorry that you are in such a tough spot. 

Every time I let myself get into a really bad spot, it happened gradually and because I didn't take control of my destiny. 

Every man hates condoms. We ALL do. And many women hate them. And your wife might be one of them. 

That said, if you want to control your destiny you do what you need to do. Step one is: 
I will NOT bring a child into a failing marriage. I am therefore going to take steps to ensure that my wife does not get pregnant. If wearing a condom is a 'show stopper' for her, than we wont have sex until she decides otherwise. 

I can almost guarantee that she will fight you to the death on this point. She will see it - for what it is - you beginning to take back control of the marriage. 

And she is so good at getting you to do what she wants, that she will turn this into a rough game of: you don't trust me, and maybe even, if you are that afraid of us having a baby maybe we shouldn't even be married. 

This is one thing I am an expert at. So you can use my wording if you want: It would be wrong to bring a baby into our very strained marriage. So I am going to do everything possible to avoid that happening. 

And then stop there. You have stated your position. Don't even acknowledge her comments about trust. In fact, don't comment on her behavior at all. No matter what she says, refrain from the desire (you think it's a strength - it is actually a huge weakness - I have it too  - you can overcome it) to explain or justify. 

If she says: well if you want to be celibate that's your choice. 
Don't respond. Do not argue. Just be silent. 

And don't answer questions like: what do I have to do to get you to trust me again/get you to love me. 

Or: are you doing this to protect me from diseases because you are having an affair or because you think I am having an affair? 

If she cries - she is crying over a loss of control - not because she has hurt the marriage so badly that you are doing this. 

Because the story of your marriage is: You talk and she gets her way. 

Stop talking and enforce a boundary for once. 

Her BC is not fool proof. But don't say that. You both know it. 

If YOU destabilize the marriage, she 'might' forget to take her pills, or forget to take them on time. Or simply stop taking them. Her confidence in the current situation does not mean she wants a divorce. 

If you let her control the 'birth control' you are letting her control YOUR future. 










QUOTE=Mr.JustDoesntUnderstand;4344522]Mem,

There is no way I want to her to get pregnant right now. And I mean that with every ounce of my being. There is not one part of me that wants that. I know there is a strong chance this relationship ends in divorce. I've come to terms with that, and honestly I know I'll be okay. It'll suck for a while, but I'll be okay. I won't need to run into the arms of another woman either. I'll just do my own thing and whatever happens happens. But the reality is, I do love my wife, and I know that I want to be with her. However, I'm honestly at the edge of how much I can take with her selfish behavior and I mean that. I would just rather see a change of heart from her, no matter how unlikely.[/QUOTE]


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, thanks to BPD my wife is not happy in general so whether I'm in the picture or not it really does not matter. For her happiness is 16 hours work and 3 hours TV. Can't argue with success 

I could be happier, true, but I'm also realistic. The dating market for a mid 50's PhD with mad scientist hair, a spare tire, a funny accent, a caustic sense of humor and a maturity (or lack thereof) that defies his graying hair is not exactly booming. Never mind I make darned good money, I'm funny, gentle, polite, modest, extremely intelligent, and a heck of a father. So, assuming that divorced, single, or widowed PTO moms are not going to be mud wrestling each other in my front yard trying to get to be first in line, I have little faith in the happiness fairy. Besides, with my luck anyone who survives the initial shock gets to pass muster with my daughters and that ain't happening any time soon...

The current tenant of my bed is not likely to bail. As her prime directive is to keep her social status she will tolerate pretty much everything I figuratively throw at her . Stalemate.

A divorce at this time only buys revenge and possibly better food. Food is overrated and my best revenge is huge tuition checks. I do value my girls and their education and as return they deliver in turn. They've often told me to divorce her ash but reality is a better compass than love for mom. If they were merely good students it would be different but they're pretty good, after thousands spent on private lessons, education vacations, and the like. 

Besides I do feel like divorce would be abandoning someone with a serious illness; she would likely be toast without me, so there's some high horse morals at play there too. We might still split but not for personal reasons..


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## aeasty (Jun 5, 2013)

sorry to hear it but I was very much like you except we had a child together, we are now separated because she was lazy and not willing to change. its good that she at least admits there is a problem but its always hard to get them to take steps towards fixing it if they are not motivated. all I can say is best of luck and hope she is willing to work on it but if she isn't set a deadline and stick to it.


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## aeasty (Jun 5, 2013)

also single life isn't so bad, sucks for a few weeks but then you start to forget and not feel anything for that person(that sounds kinda harsh) being a single dad can be a bit draining but as long as you have a extreme reaction to red bull like I do(puts me into the clouds off a small can for hours) and a good support structure its pretty rewarding. Plus side of being single no more music you don't like, furniture, movies(because lets be honest no man likes a romcom unless the chick in it gets naked a lot) and if you are like me and like to eat clean and healthy more then fast food junk its pretty easy to whip up a week or 2 work of meals on a lazy sunday arvo


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