# Realizations about relationship dynamic



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Wow. You guys have helped me see things more clearly.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/35686-what-pickle-what-pickle.html

I can't have a healthy relationship if I "fear loss". 

I can't lose who I am in a relationship and adapt so much to her preferences.

The fear of loss is the big thing. I can be confident, arrogant, and take charge....really alpha. But when I sense trouble or that she might pull the rug out from under me, I panic.

I go into damage control and the boundaries that I set go out the window. If I can be secure enough in myself to be true to who I am and I what I'll accept and what I won't accept....even at the cost of losing her, I'll have a major success in my personal growth.

I've been critical of my GF for having a "take it or leave it" attitude. Sometimes she presents this way...maybe it is more a wall she has put up or a defense mechanism, I think.

But she is always very clear of her boundaries and what she wants and will tolerate. Very clear. She has no fear of losing me and it bugs me. But I know that lack of fear that she has allows her to be true to herself and be a better person because of it. I need to learn this. Some of my insecurities about finding a woman who I'm so completely into crop up and I doubt I'll find her again if I lose this one. I lose my alpha qualities quickly in these situations. I appease. Accommodate. Don't stand up for myself to avoid conflict. In actuality, these characteristics only reinforce her feelings of discontent with me. 

I also need to learn to not mold myself to her personality and preferences. Just because she loves country music, doesn't mean I have to jump on that bandwagon. Just because she likes me in black slacks doesn't mean I can't wear my more comfortable khakis. There are so many instances that when she expressed her feelings or preferencs and mine were different, I just went with hers and adapted. It's easy for me to adjust and go with the flow. But then, I lose a little of my individuality and what draws her to me. 

She's alfa and used to controlling all the aspects of her life (even a little OCD in terms of cleaning and organizing). I'm alpha/beta and used to controlling all the aspects of my life. But I'm also more of a nurturer than her. I'm supportive, understanding, a good listener, and slow to anger and react in a negative fashion. I'm in control of my emotions, laid back.

I've found that I submit to her being dominant at times. Maybe too often. And the control freak in her treats me like child far too often. Hard for me to stomach when I don't need to be micro managed in the least. But I swallow it more than I should.

I need to reassert. Redefine who I am and change our relationship dynamic. Get back to the confident, ****-sure, unquestioned leader in my life with a twinkle in my eye and smirk on my face (much better than looking like a scared dog who just got kicked in the rump).


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Based on this post you need to download the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and read it.

There's a link on here somewhere or post a request for it over in the Men's Clubhouse. I bet you'll find it eye opening and extremely helpful. Download and read just the first chapter...

It was a real eye opener for me.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Sadly, I thought if I just kept her 'love tank' full, things would fall into place. Too much acts of service, too much words of affirmation. I became a servant and didn't make her earn that love. Need to change the thermostat, now.

I should have heard the hints. "You're too good to me" "You're too nice....I'm not used to someone so selfless and giving" Suggesting maybe I could be more of a 'jerk' and she wouldn't have a problem with it. Just her way of saying that she wasn't attracted to dear sweet old me catering to her every whim.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

sigma1299 said:


> Based on this post you need to download the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and read it.
> 
> There's a link on here somewhere or post a request for it over in the Men's Clubhouse. I bet you'll find it eye opening and extremely helpful. Download and read just the first chapter...
> 
> It was a real eye opener for me.


However, after reading on the guys website about Nice Guy Syndrome.....very few of those characteristics resemble me????

I'm just the nice guy in my relationships, maybe??? I do identify with trying to hide my preceived weaknesses, flaws, and mistakes.....but is that not common for most people?

Some people would characterize me as an arrogant, know-it-all. I love to debate and argue topics. I love to hear myself talk. I'm love sports and consider myself and aging athlete! I'm the disciplinarian and authority figure to my kids. I'm a coach and love to mold a group of kids into a team. 

Is this typical nice guy stuff? Nothing is black and white, I guess.


----------



## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

greenandblue said:


> wow. You guys have helped me see things more clearly.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/35686-what-pickle-what-pickle.html
> 
> ...


uh! Duh!


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I'm certainly no expert on the nice guy syndrome but your post sounds to me like you are putting all of her needs before yours in an effort to make her happy. Presumably in an effort to have a happy and problem free life for yourself; which, according to my understanding is classic nice guy behavior. 

There are several aspects of the nice guy thing that don't apply to me also, but there are several that do. It's just a model to try to understand you're own wiring and manage your life better. Take what fits and discard the rest. 

If you're read much of the nice guy stuff you'll recognize that nice guys really aren't so nice. Most everyone would call me arrogant also.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

sigma1299 said:


> I'm certainly no expert on the nice guy syndrome but your post sounds to me like you are putting all of her needs before yours in an effort to make her happy. Presumably in an effort to have a happy and problem free life for yourself; which, according to my understanding is classic nice guy behavior.
> 
> There are several aspects of the nice guy thing that don't apply to me also, but there are several that do. It's just a model to try to understand you're own wiring and manage your life better. Take what fits and discard the rest.
> 
> If you're read much of the nice guy stuff you'll recognize that nice guys really aren't so nice. Most everyone would call me arrogant also.


Good point! I agree


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Good point! I agree


HEY - don't call me arrogant!!

J/K


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

So, I've been cool lately anyway. Even more so the last couple of days.

In case you don't remember, we are 'broken up" but still living together. I told her today that I wouldn't be in til late tonight. She asked what I was doing? Big plans? I side stepped the question. She asked me again (email). I gave a vague response (I'm actually going to a ball game). Then she said this:

*"That sounds fun! 

If you’re going on a date,….you can tell me.  Honestly – it wouldn’t bug me, plus you deserve it."*

How the heck do I respond to that????? I wish going on a date DID bug her!!!!!!


I feel like a loser if I say, nah-just going to a ball game. She's curious for one of two reasons: 1) It actually WOULD bug her 2) Me being open about going out with others would give her that freedom as well.

I would rather be ambiguous and know that it rattled her that I could be going out with someone.

Can she be that confident that even if I went out with someone else she still has "that power" over me and can 'snap her fingers' at anytime and I would choose her? She is VERY confident. 

Or does she really not care? Or does she just want me to think she doesn't care????


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

For some reason, her last message freaked me out. I could have done without that. i was happy with her being curious.

I certainly don't want a woman who I love being happy if I choose to go out with other women. I'm not really built that way...but it would be okay if she freakin worried over what she might lose!!!!


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I gave a vague response (I'm actually going to a ball game).


How is that vague? :scratchhead: Seems to me you gave a direct response, you just left out the details of what game, where, what time, and with WHO? But in your situation with her, do any of those really matter? Nope!


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Ambiguity will serve you best here. She's dropped you into the 'friend' zone. Not caring about you dating, you deserve it?? That's interesting. After all the sharing you've done with her over the last few weeks about how you feel about her, she doesn't truly believe you could be going out with someone else. That's a load of horsepucky. 

She sounds like a person that is really good at compartmentalizing her feelings, though she claims otherwise. Tread carefully.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I was vague on my plans. I said "hooking up with a couple of friends...maybe going to a game or something." I put in () just for you readers...I didnt say that to her.

She asked me three times before she even got that much out of me.

Should I say...."No, I'm actually going to a game"? My heart wants me to tell her that it bugs me that it doesn't bug her.

She is really a confident chick. Super hot. She knows I am head over heals for her. Either she hopes I am moving on so that she can as well...or that's just her way of getting information because she does care. But like I said, she probably thinks she could snap her fingers and have me in her bedroom even if I did go out with someone.

She has told me before that I 'deserve it'. I deserve to be happy, I deserve to be with someone who can give me what I need.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I think my response will be "Nah....just hanging out with some buddies".


I'm doing the 180 thing...but I would be lying if I didn't hope that it ultimately would have a positive effect on how she responds and reacts to me. We can all say it is for 'ourslves'...and it is. But, when you love someone, you want to change the dynamic for the relationship to work too.


----------



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

What if she's just telling you the truth? That it wouldn't bother her and she does think you deserve it. No hidden agenda or subtext. What if it's really just the way she feels?


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

sigma1299 said:


> What if she's just telling you the truth? That it wouldn't bother her and she does think you deserve it. No hidden agenda or subtext. What if it's really just the way she feels?


That is a distinct possibility. I think she cares though.....or why would she ask what I was doing in three consecutive emails? Kind of threw it in there amid other stuff about the weekend, digging for info. 

Finally, she sent that last email asking me specifically if I was going on a date. I just want her to feel her heart strings pull abit if I was going on a date. How could it not???

But again....she is extremely confident in her womanly abilities and might not feel challenged even if I did go out.

Screw this. I thought of hooking up with an ex just to blow some steam off (if you know what I mean). But, then I feel guilty for not being honest with any of the parties. And I'm just not built that way. 

My biggest fear is her dating, actually. Right in front of my nose.....uggg.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The last thing she needs to be doing is dating. And it would be SUPER disrespectful to you to do it right in front of you.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Should I say...."No, I'm actually going to a game"? My heart wants me to tell her that it bugs me that it doesn't bug her.


And to me, as a woman, this sounds like "Waaaahhhh Waaaaahhhhhh Waaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!" Need a tissue? Dude, grow some balls!!! 

Also, she's already "moved on" so to speak. That happened as soon as you went to separate bedrooms, if not before.

PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, pick yourself up off the floor and STOP focusing on this girl!


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I just want her to feel her heart strings pull abit if I was going on a date. How could it not???
> 
> 
> Screw this. I thought of hooking up with an ex just to blow some steam off (if you know what I mean). But, then I feel guilty for not being honest with any of the parties. And I'm just not built that way.
> ...


You can't "make" her feel anything one way or another. She either does, or she does NOT. And from you recent posts, she clearly does NOT. Sorry!

YES! There you go! Go out with someone else, keep it casual and fun, just like my previous advice. You do not owe her any explanation of anything you do with and in your life. You're just "roommates"...........in separate bedrooms. Remember??? :scratchhead:


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I would go so far to say it's none of her business (anymore) what you're doing when you're not home. She asks your business again, politely tell her you're not accountable to one another and therefore don't need to share that kind of information. She can do what she likes and so will you.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> You can't "make" her feel anything one way or another. She either does, or she does NOT. And from you recent posts, she clearly does NOT. Sorry!
> 
> YES! There you go! Go out with someone else, keep it casual and fun, just like my previous advice. You do not owe her any explanation of anything you do with and in your life. You're just "roommates"...........in separate bedrooms. Remember??? :scratchhead:


We are clearly not "just roommates". No matter how we label it, we have intimate knowledge of one another. I agree with Bit, it is disrespectful considering where she and have been together as a couple. You don't move in together and discuss marriage down the road and then just be okay as roommates. 

If I go out with someone, I will never tell her or let her know. I hope she will be as discreet.

It's an unenviable position that we are in. But here we are. 

She just sent me an email explaining why she was asking (I didn't ask her to explain). She said since I rarely go out (heck, between work and kids, who can go out often??) it just caught her off guard.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> She just sent me an email explaining why she was asking (I didn't ask her to explain). She said since I rarely go out (heck, between work and kids, who can go out often??) it just caught her off guard.


You two really talk to each other a lot during the day. Or would you say it's increased as of late?

She felt she needed to explain herself because it's really out of order considering the arrangement she's pushing with you and she knows it.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> We are clearly not "just roommates". No matter how we label it, we have intimate knowledge of one another.
> 
> She just sent me an email explaining why she was asking (I didn't ask her to explain). She said since I rarely go out (heck, between work and kids, who can go out often??) it just caught her off guard.


And if I were you, I wouldn't even respond. What's the use?

If you are in separate bedrooms, I don't care your "history" together, you are ROOMMATES!!! 

Do you still sleep together?

Do you still have sex with each other?

Do you kiss good morning and good night? 

Do you take showers together?


:scratchhead: :banghead:


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> You two really talk to each other a lot during the day. Or would you say it's increased as of late?
> 
> She felt she needed to explain herself because it's really out of order considering the arrangement she's pushing with you and she knows it.


:iagree: And maybe wanting to keep him "in check" for whatever reason?


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

She wants to check in and at the same time keep him in check. God forbid she wakes up tomorrow with an epiphany that she's making yet ANOTHER bone-headed decision. So many people are affected I can't imagine that she hasn't thought of the consequences of what she's doing.

Having her cake and eating it too. With a big glass of milk.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

If you must be reminded.....you're clearly in denial of your life:



> We really weren't ready for this, moreso her in terms of relationship but we took a leap of faith and were sure that we would grow even closer and live happily ever after.
> 
> It hasn't worked that way. She has grown increasingly distant and recently admitted that she wasn't in love with me and didn't have those types of feelings for me.
> 
> ...


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> You two really talk to each other a lot during the day. Or would you say it's increased as of late?
> 
> She felt she needed to explain herself because it's really out of order considering the arrangement she's pushing with you and she knows it.


We normally don't talk much during the day. We used to talk a lot. Then she asked me to cool it. So I did, no problem. Now for weeks I never initiate any contact during the day.

I did send her the email letting her know not to expect me in til late tonight. We try to let each other know our where abouts. I'm keeping her kids tomorrow night so she can go out with friends. She's been out with friends like once in the past 5 months, so she deserves it too.

But I did find it telling that she was so curious. She tried to slide the question in there without calling attention to it until I was too vague for her liking. Then she asked out right....then explained why she was asking. 

Uggg....I will not get caught up in analyzing each and everything. Won't do it. 

Bottom line: I know she cares and would be upset if I was in another relationship. No doubt in my mind. Just do the 180 and what will be will be. 

I'm not ready to date, though. And I won't manipulate her by making her think so. I might be ambiguous as to my plans and whereabouts. But trying to make someone jealous is a slippery slope.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> She wants to check in and at the same time keep him in check. God forbid she wakes up tomorrow with an epiphany that she's making yet ANOTHER bone-headed decision. So many people are affected I can't imagine that she hasn't thought of the consequences of what she's doing.
> 
> Having her cake and eating it too. With a big glass of milk.


And there he is.....holding the glass and straw for her to drink out of!!!


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> But trying to make someone jealous is a slippery slope.


And she can't be jealous if she's just not that into you. 

DUDE, you need to seriously get ahold of yourself. RECLAIM YOUR LIFE! :banghead:


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I would stop the 'letting her know where you are'. She has lost the right to know what you're doing, who you're seeing. 180 is doing an about face. Do it all the way.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

If you lived with a bunch of friends you wouldn't be checking in with them all day about where you are and who you're with. She's no different.

And don't be available to her for going out either. You have to stop being her lap dog, that's her problem. You've become her built in babysitter, maid, sponsor... stop it.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> If you must be reminded.....you're clearly in denial of your life:


SW- what I'm trying to say is that there is clearly a different dynamic in play here to expect us to behave as just roommates. 

We can say 'roommates', but being lovers in the recent past does make things that we are feeling and are faced with each day and night much different than normal roommates.

The end result is the same. "We are giving this 'roommate' thing a try. We can speculate on both ends of the spectrum as to where this might lead. Maybe we'll be great friends....maybe much more. But something has to change and this is where we currently are. Separating bedrooms is the only way that reality will sink in and help some change to occur. Let's do the best we can to be happy." -her words


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

And just so you know, this forum is just a good place for me to think out loud and have other people shoot me as straight as they can given their knowledge of the situation.

I seem to be coming off as her lap dog....but that's not really the case. She does the majority of the housework and busts her butt for her kids. Rarely goes anywhere but to her mom's, to work, or home. I'm away more than she is. 

But I'm just trying to change our current dynamic and see where it leads us. Even before she made this decision, I was unhappy and looking for a solution. But since she pulled the trigger, it feels different. Gave her the power, so to speak. 

I'm not moping around, feeling sorry for myself. I've been through much worse considering my divorce. I know how to play this game, as it were. I'll distance myself and do things that I want to do. It will be a process for me to not think about 'our relationship' so much during the day. But I'll get there. If it works out...then she's a very lucky girl. If not, I'll be fine.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> SW- what I'm trying to say is that there is clearly a different dynamic in play here to expect us to behave as just roommates.
> 
> We can say 'roommates', but being lovers in the recent past does make things that we are feeling and are faced with each day and night much different than normal roommates.
> 
> The end result is the same. "We are giving this 'roommate' thing a try. We can speculate on both ends of the spectrum as to where this might lead. Maybe we'll be great friends....maybe much more. But something has to change and this is where we currently are. Separating bedrooms is the only way that reality will sink in and help some change to occur. Let's do the best we can to be happy." -her words


I think you should replace "we" with "I", "ours" to "mine", etc. etc. That will help put the focus more on YOU, YOUR kids, and YOUR life. She's clearly moved on with HERS. Therefore, she should find a babysitter for HER kids, while you go and do things with YOUR kids.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I really wish she would remove herself from your eyesight. It's damaging to you. You hurt, she's not feeling that hurt. She may sympathize for inflicting the hurt on you, but SHE'S not hurting for YOU. 

If she had any heart she'd move... find a girlfriend to live with, anything but torture you like this.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> And just so you know, this forum is just a good place for me to think out loud and have other people shoot me as straight as they can.


Right, and we can only lead a horse to water......can't make him drink it. 

I wish you the best (and all the kids involved in this situation).


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I really wish she would remove herself from your eyesight. It's damaging to you. You hurt, she's not feeling that hurt. She may sympathize for inflicting the hurt on you, but SHE'S not hurting for YOU.
> 
> If she had any heart she'd move... find a girlfriend to live with, anything but torture you like this.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

And now she just called to make sure i wasn't mad at her because my responses were blunt (and I didn't put freakin smilies everywhere, lol). Despite the change, we still have a close relationship. That's because I hide my discomfort and NEVER bring up relationship talk. To her, she see's me going about my business and no emotion.

Said she just wanted to make sure I wasnt' mad and to let me know that I could tell her if I was going out and that I could be honest with her.

I told her, I was fine and just let her know that I might not be comfortable sharing that type of info with her. 

Honestly though, guys....I'm not that "hurt". It does hurt. But I've been through much worse. If it gets to the point where I am miserable and hurting terribly...I'll remove her or me from the situation at any cost. 

However, I am giving this one more try and see if me cooling off the thermostat and distancing myself will change things. If not, no harm done. At least with us living together, she can feel that distance and see the changes more clearly.

She is worth it....or I would NEVER put myself through this. Heck, if she wasn't special then the baggage that is carrying would have pushed me away long ago.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Uggg....I will not get caught up in analyzing each and everything. Won't do it.


You've been doing it throughout this thread. At least, I hope, you realize you are really into analyzing, trying-to-figure-out-why-she-said-this-or-that, re-analyzing, and generally driving yourself nuts.

When you are ready to lay this issue down and just let it be, you won't give a good cahoot what her body language means, if anything. Occupy the space in your mind with something more productive ... like YOU.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> You've been doing it throughout this thread. At least, I hope, you realize you are really into analyzing, trying-to-figure-out-why-she-said-this-or-that, re-analyzing, and generally driving yourself nuts.
> 
> When you are ready to lay this issue down and just let it be, you won't give a good cahoot what her body language means, if anything. Occupy the space in your mind with something more productive ... like YOU.


TOTALLY :iagree: :iagree: 

:allhail:


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> And now she just called to make sure i wasn't mad at her because my responses were blunt (and I didn't put freakin smilies everywhere, lol). Despite the change, we still have a close relationship. That's because I hide my discomfort and NEVER bring up relationship talk. To her, she see's me going about my business and no emotion.
> 
> Said she just wanted to make sure I wasnt' mad and to let me know that I could tell her if I was going out and that I could be honest with her.
> 
> ...


Le sigh.

You like her giving you this attention, don't you? Is it comforting to you? 

The giving you hope is what I'm worried about. You're hanging on by tender hooks and I think it's unfortunate. Time wasted really.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> Le sigh.
> 
> You like her giving you this attention, don't you? Is it comforting to you?
> 
> The giving you hope is what I'm worried about. You're hanging on by tender hooks and I think it's unfortunate. Time wasted really.


:lol: Give a man an inch, and he'll take a mile!


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The song "I'm a fool for you" is ringing in my head.

Green, may I ask a question? Why did you get divorced? If you've mentioned it here I apologize... also, if you don't want to answer that's fine too. I'm just curious.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Prodigal said:


> You've been doing it throughout this thread. At least, I hope, you realize you are really into analyzing, trying-to-figure-out-why-she-said-this-or-that, re-analyzing, and generally driving yourself nuts.
> 
> When you are ready to lay this issue down and just let it be, you won't give a good cahoot what her body language means, if anything. Occupy the space in your mind with something more productive ... like YOU.


Yeah, I realize I'm doing that now. I just won't let it continue. It's part of the process. But I've been there and done that and I have a reference as to how defeating that can be. 

As a result, even though it might not appear so in this thread, I'm wayyyyyy better emotionally than I would have been in the past in this situation. I know the pitfalls. 

But she is worth my effort. I'll keep those interested informed of how my 180 efforts work. 

Thanks!


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I'll keep those interested informed of how my 180 efforts work.
> 
> Thanks!


The best of luck with this!!


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> The song "I'm a fool for you" is ringing in my head.
> 
> Green, may I ask a question? Why did you get divorced? If you've mentioned it here I apologize... also, if you don't want to answer that's fine too. I'm just curious.


It is on here, actually. But my wife and I grew apart....she was unfaithful in response to her unhappiness. . I tried to work it out but it had been such a long and painful road that I moved on soon after we separated. i was 'rebounding' within 2 months of us splitting up.

She is still with the man that she cheated with 2 yrs ago. But we are good friends, her and I and my kids were shielded from most of it because we handled it so well.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for sharing again.

Unfortunately, you can't fix her anymore than you could your ex. I do hope the 180 really puts things into perspective for you.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> Le sigh.
> 
> You like her giving you this attention, don't you? Is it comforting to you?
> 
> The giving you hope is what I'm worried about. You're hanging on by tender hooks and I think it's unfortunate. Time wasted really.


You're very intuitive. It does give me comfort. 

I don't want to waste my time. And I know I don't 'need' her. I do prefer her though. 

Am I that out of line with thinking there is still a chance for us? Would this be the first time a person took a step back for a breather from a relationship and still found happiness as a couple? 

This has been a tough year for her (tough few years actually). This is the likely the first opportunity she has had to sit back an d catch her breath and assess where she is. Knowing her, I understand. Doesn't mean it will work out for us....but I understand how overwhelming the past few years have been for her and now can finally breathe. 

She's worth the effort. Might not pay off for me, but I've already invested this much into "us" so a little while longer is no biggie.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Am I that out of line with thinking there is still a chance for us? Would this be the first time a person took a step back for a breather from a relationship and still found happiness as a couple?
> 
> This has been a tough year for her (tough few years actually). This is the likely the first opportunity she has had to sit back an d catch her breath and assess where she is. Knowing her, I understand. Doesn't mean it will work out for us....but I understand how overwhelming the past few years have been for her and now can finally breathe.


I haven't heard of a situation like yours working out like you would like it to. One person always wanted much more than the other and the situation in the end just wasn't equitable for both.

I'm not trying to purposely be negative, just throwing the reality of it all out there to you.

Also, while it's nice that she's getting a breather, it shouldn't be at the expense of someone else. A neutral party? That would be much better. You are definitley NOT a neutral party.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Green,
You smothered her which you clearly realize now. She told you she needed you to back off which you have done - good for you.

However you are missing some key aspects of this dynamic. You describe her as super confident. And Yet she asked you three times who you were going out with. Sure she buried the question in a longer text /email to be low key but three times means she is not so confident. And the BAD thing about her lack of confidence is she is going to work to keep you around as her plan B until she has a plan A. That could take a a long time. 

She doesn't want you to be a jerk and yet you don't seem willing to enforce boundaries because she is "so hot". Please don't proceed to give me the "list" of all her great qualities. If she were normal to nice looking you never would have put up with this nonsense. She doesn't want jerky behavior she wants firm and fearless behavior. 

When she asks who you are going out with the fearless answer is: to politely tell her that she has forfeited her right to ask you those types of questions. And then change the subject. And if she asks if that is also true for her you respond with a firm "yes". Because you can't let her keep you in this no mans land of being her plan B. Telling her you won't discuss your sex life with her and won't inquire as to hers is a clear refusal to be a plan B. Perhaps the only other statement should be - let's not bring other people back to the house we share because it will confuse the kids.

In the meantime figure out if you can sublet the house. Moving into a place that was close to her work and 90 minutes from your job was a massive mistake because it signal led that her time matters way more than yours and by definition she and her needs matter more than you and yours. It looks to me like an act of submission, not the behavior of an equal. 

The funny/odd part of this puzzle is that you don't seem to grasp that if she really was such a great catch she would not have been living with her judgmental "her words not mine" parents at 32.




E=GreenandBlue;499680]You're very intuitive. It does give me comfort. 

I don't want to waste my time. And I know I don't 'need' her. I do prefer her though. 

Am I that out of line with thinking there is still a chance for us? Would this be the first time a person took a step back for a breather from a relationship and still found happiness as a couple? 

This has been a tough year for her (tough few years actually). This is the likely the first opportunity she has had to sit back an d catch her breath and assess where she is. Knowing her, I understand. Doesn't mean it will work out for us....but I understand how overwhelming the past few years have been for her and now can finally breathe. 

She's worth the effort. Might not pay off for me, but I've already invested this much into "us" so a little while longer is no biggie.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Green,
> You smothered her which you clearly realize now. She told you she needed you to back off which you have done - good for you.
> 
> However you are missing some key aspects of this dynamic. You describe her as super confident. And Yet she asked you three times who you were going out with. Sure she buried the question in a longer text /email to be low key but three times means she is not so confident. And the BAD thing about her lack of confidence is she is going to work to keep you around as her plan B until she has a plan A. That could take a a long time.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Thanks so much for your response, Mem. I appreciate you wading through the muck and you have a pretty good grasp of my situation.

She was living with her parents becuase she divorced and moved 800 miles away from a destructive situation. She moved in with her parents in a part of the country that was completely new to her as they had moved there in retirement recently. She landed a very good job but her childcare was so expensive and she couldn't afford housing and the expenses of living without help as her ex was not paying child support. 

My reasoning to move was simple: The area that I previously lived in and still work in is rural. She could have never found a job paying anywhere near what she makes now. I had always wanted to move near the area that we live now because it was closer to the "city" and I could more easily find a job doing what I do and making good money. I love this area. And as a man, I was rather shoulder the physical burden of a temporary commute subject her to it.

I think she is confident in her "attractive abilities". She's likely not a woman who has been rejected much by men in her life.

And I have began making some boundaries about what I'll accept if there is dating. I told her today that I was not comfortable talking 'dating stuff' with her. She told me that it was no biggie for me to tell her I had a date....she was just caught off guard because I rarely just "go out" and that's why she questioned me. I am usually a homebody on the weekends and spend time with family. 

It's that fear of losing her that hamstrung me here. I know more than ever I need to conquer that fear for now and the future. I catered to her too much. Appeased her too much. Tried too hard to please her. And I think she lost respect for me and that attraction/chemistry took a massive hit. Some of it is her being screwed up emotionally and working through her own baggage. But a lot of it is that I became a little too "nice". Lost my edge. And I know she desires that. Normally, that's who I am. But the fear sabotaged me. 

She is hot. Not beauty queen hot....but perfect for me. But the truth is, if not for the financial committments that I've made I would have split before her. Probably 6-8 weeks ago. But this house and everything involved financially has forced me to be more patient with her. 

I stress, she is an incredible woman despite her current state. If not, I would not have sacrificed so much for her and risked everything.

I told her from the get-go that I wouldnt' settle for medciocre....that's why I chose her and worked so hard to please her. Because mediocre she is not...intellectually nor physically. I just dont need a long term project. But I'm backing off now and doing my own thing. I do want to attract her and it's actually a curiosity of mine to see if this works. My background is in psychology. If it doesn't change our dynamic and bring her around, I won't be crushed. I'm a big boy and will take the hit and move on.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

All I can tell you is how this works for me when dealing with my W of 22 years. 

I bring my A game consistently. That INCLUDES being lightly difficult in an amusing way. The type of behavior which causes her to laugh - at herself - glare at me and punch me in the arm all at once. Like me teasing her about her lack of patience. NONE of it is mean spirited. All of it is based on valid "quirks" of hers. 

There is a powerful subtext with this interaction which goes something like this: "ME to her: You have quirks/perhaps even flaws, and in some ways they make our marriage more entertaining because we can be playful about them AND it is also true that I love you both because of and in spite of those quirks. 

For instance she can be a little bit difficult. Emotionally high maintenance. She recognizes that. From my vantage point that quality is both a flaw and a sex trait. The fact she is somewhat difficult makes her more desirable to me. Can't explain it. But it is totally true. 

And the sub-sub text is that the same is true in reverse for me. She and I can both mock me for my flaws - but the same basic flavor applies as some of those flaws just make me more lovable/desirable. 

But every year or two when she goes from being fun/difficult to briefly batshiiit crazy I gently remind her that she gets my A game, and if that isn't good enough I graciously accept her decision to part ways. That exchange typically lasts 24-48 hours and ends with her apologizing and saturating me with makeup sex and an apology for being so difficult. My response is always "nothing to apologize for if you have something specific you want me to fix - talk to me". Turns out there isn't anything. 

But during those 1-2 day windows I really am calm and accepting. This IS my A game, if it isn't good enough she SHOULD leave me. We will both be better off. And somehow that mindset/posture defuses the entire situation quickly and completely. 



GreenandBlue said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks so much for your response, Mem. I appreciate you wading through the muck and you have a pretty good grasp of my situation.

She was living with her parents becuase she divorced and moved 800 miles away from a destructive situation. She moved in with her parents in a part of the country that was completely new to her as they had moved there in retirement recently. She landed a very good job but her childcare was so expensive and she couldn't afford housing and the expenses of living without help as her ex was not paying child support. 

My reasoning to move was simple: The area that I previously lived in and still work in is rural. She could have never found a job paying anywhere near what she makes now. I had always wanted to move near the area that we live now because it was closer to the "city" and I could more easily find a job doing what I do and making good money. I love this area. And as a man, I was rather shoulder the physical burden of a temporary commute subject her to it.

I think she is confident in her "attractive abilities". She's likely not a woman who has been rejected much by men in her life.

And I have began making some boundaries about what I'll accept if there is dating. I told her today that I was not comfortable talking 'dating stuff' with her. She told me that it was no biggie for me to tell her I had a date....she was just caught off guard because I rarely just "go out" and that's why she questioned me. I am usually a homebody on the weekends and spend time with family. 

It's that fear of losing her that hamstrung me here. I know more than ever I need to conquer that fear for now and the future. I catered to her too much. Appeased her too much. Tried too hard to please her. And I think she lost respect for me and that attraction/chemistry took a massive hit. Some of it is her being screwed up emotionally and working through her own baggage. But a lot of it is that I became a little too "nice". Lost my edge. And I know she desires that. Normally, that's who I am. But the fear sabotaged me. 

She is hot. Not beauty queen hot....but perfect for me. But the truth is, if not for the financial committments that I've made I would have split before her. Probably 6-8 weeks ago. But this house and everything involved financially has forced me to be more patient with her. 

I stress, she is an incredible woman despite her current state. If not, I would not have sacrificed so much for her and risked everything.

I told her from the get-go that I wouldnt' settle for medciocre....that's why I chose her and worked so hard to please her. Because mediocre she is not...intellectually nor physically. I just dont need a long term project. But I'm backing off now and doing my own thing. I do want to attract her and it's actually a curiosity of mine to see if this works. My background is in psychology. If it doesn't change our dynamic and bring her around, I won't be crushed. I'm a big boy and will take the hit and move on.[/QUOTE]


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks, bro. 

But I'm wondering if there is a balance between 'upping' my game in my situation (charming, funny, attractive) and the 180?

Seems the 180 would have me back away from doing even giving her that attention.


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Dude, the 180 is not a strategy to lure her back in.

It seems like your using it a game to get her attention.

Look, don't play games with someone you want to be with. The 180 is an approach to rebuild a person when their SO is stepping back from them or leaving them. It helps the left SO or BS deal with the rejection and loss. 

It can also help show the other person what they are loosing by removing it from easy access. 

but you're playing it like a cat and mouse game to make her jealous? or what ? to get her attention??


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Shaggy said:


> Dude, the 180 is not a strategy to lure her back in.
> 
> It seems like your using it a game to get her attention.
> 
> ...


What.....you don't think the majority of the people on here that use the 180 don't hope that in some way it will have a positive effect on their SO???

The great thing about the 180 is that it can have both effects....personal and and how the SO relates to you. The 180 is the main thing. My question was that while I'm engaged in the 180 should I also try to show her my A game when we are around each other....which is often since we live in the same house. And can these things coexist together.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Almost impossible to pull off both. Stick to the 180 and look to SUBLET the house to get out of her physical space. Staying together "neutered/sexless" implies you still "hope". 

Or advertise for a room mate who could replace her and her rent payments. 


UOTE=GreenandBlue;500391]What.....you don't think the majority of the people on here that use the 180 don't hope that in some way it will have a positive effect on their SO???

The great thing about the 180 is that it can have both effects....personal and and how the SO relates to you. The 180 is the main thing. My question was that while I'm engaged in the 180 should I also try to show her my A game when we are around each other....which is often since we live in the same house. And can these things coexist together.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

My self realization for today:

Even though I want to do 180 for myself, I notice that I still do all these things with an eye on her. I don't know how to break that. 

I'm telling myself that it's for me, and it might be partly true, but I'm self aware enough to realize that I'm hoping for a positive reaction from her as a big motivatation to get myself in a better place.

If I go out, while I enjoy it, at the end of the day I'm hoping it makes me more attractive to her. My physical appearance and the clothes I put on each I catch myself wanting to be enticing to her. When I don't call, text, or give or any attention I'm hoping that it makes her miss me and she reaches out to me.

I don't know how to break this. It makes me feel weak. Is it just the normal process in getting over someone or is there something different I should be doing?

My biggest hurdle is to get over that fear of loss. Whenever a woman has thrown that card out there, and "we need to talk" happens, I never stand up and say "you need to go, go". I always go into repair mode and try to fix it...become weak and lose any authority I had in the relationship. Then I feel like I'm at her mercy and inferior. 

At those times, I've always been good at backing up and turning the temperature way down. I know not to chase in any manner. But that fear is there and my boundaries disappear when I lose authority and control.

How's that for some introspection?


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Update:

After a few days doing the 180....something is happening. She is noticing, good or bad.

I've kept to myself, havent' been contacting her and went out Friday night. She was very curious about that but in a fun way, not irritated. When I saw her yesterday (we watched the UNC-Kentucky basketball game together at our house, she asked me again if I went out on a date. Said it didn't bother her at all but she just wanted me to be honest....there was no reason not to be. I was honest....went to basketball game with guys. She didn't believe me but she said she would choose to believe me (even though she didn't) because she hated dishonesty.

We had a very fun afternoon. I asked her why she didnt watch the game at her dad's, she said she wanted to watch it with me.

I was going to be home that afternoon and night so I agreed to watch her two small boys while she went out with friends. This is no a regualar occurance....she's only been out with friends once in 3 months so I was glad she got a chance to go out and I didn't mind.

This morning I got up, cleaned up yards and started a project refinishing some tables outside. I didn't seek or out or ask her about her evening.

I came in around lunch and she was noticable irritated with me. I asked her what her problem was. She said she didn't like the way I was behaving and didn't believe me or trust me. Said I was arrogant acting and had an attitude (I hadn't said a dozen words to her). Said she felt awkward around me. I said, you didn't feel awkard yesterday. And she said she noticed something but had drank a couple of beers and let it go. Said I had this arrogant look about me. I said, trust me none of that has anything to do with you. She said, good. She didn't like me putting all my eggs in her basket and the less anything was to do with her thet better. I told her my eggs were in my basket... trust me. She said good, trust me.

Very weird. All I have been doing is keeping to myself and keeping busy and not seeing to her every need. I"m not sure she buys it now, but it had an effect on her. Soon she'll see that this is just me valuing myself and emphasizing her less.

Thoughts?


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

It was a nasty exchange. But I held my ground and then walked away after saying what I needed to say.

For discussion purposes, it was a surprising reaction. Yesterday was light hearted and fun between us. Today I had very little interaction. I asked her if she was okay when I first saw her...she said, "fine, just tired". 

When she chose to not eat what I was grilling for lunch I said "well I guess I'm grilling for myself"....slightly iirritated. When I came back in was when we go into it.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Green,
This is not a 180. This is you hoping she will ask you to do stuff and saying yes whenever she does.

Women have a fantastic radar for fear. And you are currently in a fear driven state.
Ps: anger is just one way that fear presents. Being angry might seem strong to you but it doesn't come across that way to her.

TE=GreenandBlue;501291]It was a nasty exchange. But I held my ground and then walked away after saying what I needed to say.

For discussion purposes, it was a surprising reaction. Yesterday was light hearted and fun between us. Today I had very little interaction. I asked her if she was okay when I first saw her...she said, "fine, just tired". 

When she chose to not eat what I was grilling for lunch I said "well I guess I'm grilling for myself"....slightly iirritated. When I came back in was when we go into it.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Oh, I wasn't angry. She jumped me and I calmly held my ground. The nastiness was coming from her but I didn't let her push me. I was firm.

She later apologized and explained herself. She hadn't had a cigarette all day and was irritable. Said she just felt like I was hiding something and overreacted. 

She did say that she actually was hoping that I had a date with a girl because it would make me and her living together as friends more comfortable to her.


----------



## blissful (Nov 14, 2011)

lots of people have told you the following:
- she is just using you/ keeping you around as a backup; 

- living with her as roomates/ ex partners (whatever you want to call it) is asking for trouble;

- doing the 180 is an attempt to make her jealous isn't going to work (cos it's just keeping you trapped in her web instead of liberating you emotionally from the relationship);

- that by hanging onto & dissecting every interaction/ conversation you have with her, you are only preventing yourself from moving forward.

You have made excuses to each of the posters. Go back & read what you've said over the last few pages. Granted you may have felt the need to clear up any misconceptions posters had, but i think you're too busy making excuses for her behaviour/ your behaviour/ the situation/ living arrangements & the necessity of it.

the reality is that if you are unhappy with the way she is treating you, then will make make changes to the "relationship" dynamic. If not, you'll stay there do a pseudo-180, all in the event of winning her back. you'll probably be successful & in another couple of months/ years when you've outlived your usefulness you'll be back in square 1.

Honestly i don't know why someone would spend so much energy wanting to win back a relationship that seems so toxic to all involved. by that's just my opinion.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

blissful said:


> lots of people have told you the following:
> - she is just using you/ keeping you around as a backup;
> 
> - living with her as roomates/ ex partners (whatever you want to call it) is asking for trouble;
> ...


Well said. And I stress to you and others, just because I offer counter arguement, remember I'm going through this process of understanding myself and my situation. I'm not oblivious to my plight.

I don't want to make her jealous. Though, I would like to get back to the "me" that made me so attractive to her initially.

Yeah, I do see the excuses plain enough that I've provided. In a way though, I'm just trying to give the readers more detail into the situation to make better judgment of what we're dealing with.

I want to detach. I know that if I don't, I'm going to sit here and pine for her. I'm going stress myself emotionally to no end. I just don't know how to detach. She has a grip on me and premarriage, marriage, and post marriage I've never felt this connected and emotionally/mentall attracted to another person. And, maybe she is using me to a certan extent. I do believe that she is worried that losing me for good is a scary thought. So she is keeping me around just in case she is wrong about her feelings and something changes....Plan B. But that's not an enviable position for me to be in....nor a healthy one.

In order for me to detach, I have to replace that component in my life. For me, if I don't have another relationship interest then I'm going to be faking it and my mind will continue to linger on her. But seeing someone else is also a conflict in my mind because it feels like I would be mistreating this other person knowing that I'm just using them as a distraction.

I dated a girl for a couple of months during me and my ex's 4 month break up. At first, I was interested in her. But then it became clear that I was just using her as a distraction and I broke up with her and hurt her pretty badly. Yet that's the only way I know to detach from my current situation.

And we're trying to be friends. After our arugment yesterday, she apologized and explained herself. Then proceeded to talk about how if nothing came of us relationship-wise, we could be excellent friends. She talked about how incredible communicators we were together and how she enjoyed being around me. She talked about how our sense of humors were similar and we had so many common interests. The problem is when she talks like that I'm like, man, we have a good foundation for an incredible relationship. Our sex was out of this world. Our kids and families mesh perfectly. But the chemistry between us changed and she isn't attracted to me like that any more. I became unattractive to her by smothering her with my love and the chase was over for her. She warned me before that in the past, she has always loved the chase and once that was over, she lost interest. But getting older and having kids was forcing her to change her priorities, she said.

So, I do feel trapped. There is a lot of good between me and her. Lot's of reasons to think this is worth salvaging. But there are tons of red flags too. And I realize I just make excuses for her issues while the bottom line is she just isn't into me enough to get excited about having a serious relationship with me.


So I need to detach and create some space for myself. I'm staying away from home at least 2 nights per week as is. But my thoughts will continue to linger for her unless I replace them with thoughts of some other pretty little thing. Fair or not. Secure or not. Wise or not. That's just me.

PS- after reading this back, I can see how I go back and forth in my mind between moving on and keeping the flame alive. My posts are kind of free thought...so that's exactly how my mind is working right now. But I know I need to move towards detaching.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't like the way she keeps asking you about your going out on a date. She tells you she doesn't want a relationship with you in one breath and in the next obsesses over whether you're out with another woman or not. She is a trip without the luggage. She doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you either. It's obvious with how she's behaving around you... getting irritated because you're paying her less attention?? Now you're arrogant?? PLEASE. This woman is running GAME on you. Psyching you right out, while still maintaining her own status of "I'm with you as a friend, but MAYBE someday I'll love you again" farce.

I'm convinced she's not as forthcoming and honest with you as you believe. Her behavior is telling on her. In her mind and heart there are places you haven't treaded, no matter how many conversations you've had with her. She will NEVER totally be honest with you. Not when it comes to the subject of you and her. The only way you'll really know what she's about is to get her OUT of your sight. She's already showing you something in regard to that, if only you would open your eyes and see. Your distancing yourself from her and her response to the same is telling you all you need to know.

I'm with MEM. Sublet the house if you need to. You can't share this space with her. It's not going to be pretty the longer it continues... she's going to come at you again, just like she did this past weekend. She is losing her hold on you and she won't allow that to happen. She's not done using you yet.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

What she told me was that she was kind of hoping that I was on an actual date. She said that if I was dating then it would make the 'friend' dynamic with her seem less awkward. Her questioning didn't seem like she would be upset if I was....but she was overly curious. But added if I wasn't "there" yet, in terms of being ready to date, well then I just wasn't there. (she 's smarter than that....how could I be there???)

But I was so vague and short on my responses to her that she felt like I was hiding something and not being honest. That's what she said made her question my behavior and aloofness.

Buy that? I don't know either.

I'm sure she wants us to be friends for the time being because that would keep her from having to uproot her boys again and move her out a comfortable position. I can understand that....but it's at my expense. Plus, she does want me around just in case her feelings change. And that's at my expense too.

I too think it's a long shot that this will end well with us sharing the same space. She had a boyfriend several years ago who she lived with. They broke up but ended up being very good friends, so that is her reference point of possibility. I don't work that way. I know in my heart I will never be 'just friends' with this woman. Anything else is a charade just to stay close to her.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> She did say that she actually was hoping that I had a date with a girl because it would make me and her living together as friends more comfortable to her.


And in your next post, you said you didn't want to make her jealous? :scratchhead: Are WE missing something here?

You cannot "make her jealous". She WANTS you to date other people. GREEN LIGHT = GO!

I agree that you should find another place to live, sublease your part of the house and move on. That way she doesn't have to stress over uprooting her kids.........again! 

STOP LIVING IN DENIAL! Life is too short!


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *What she told me was that she was kind of hoping that I was on an actual date. She said that if I was dating then it would make the 'friend' dynamic with her seem less awkward.*But I was so vague and short on my responses to her that she felt like I was hiding something and not being honest. That's what she said made her question my behavior and aloofness.


I'm going to explain why this is game. 

This woman is fully aware of your deep feelings from her. Why would you be out on a date with another woman? That totally counters what is actually true. A man in love with a woman doesn't date another woman. Especially one that lives in the same home with her. It completely goes against your values and respect for her. No matter WHAT bozo and cookie show she's throwing at you, she knows without a shadow of a doubt that you wouldn't do that. You're not made that way.

And really thats awesome she was/is such good friends with and lived with an ex. Good for her. Maybe since they're so tight she can move back in with him and leave you alone. Do you all a favor. Just because it worked with another guy doesn't mean it will with you. You're not him and she knows it.

She needs to ease her conscience? Then she needs to cut this game out and move. She knows it. Not try and catch you in something, or with someone else... she needs to let you go and move on with her life, so you can do the same. You're her pet right now and it's wrong.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Plus, she does want me around just in case her feelings change.


Her feelings won't change. Once a woman makes up her mind/heart about man, good or bad, they WON'T change. She is saying to buy more time in the house, and you're falling for it. You are SO clueless!!

When she says things like that, it's like me saying "well I think I'll pack my suitcase and leave the car running JUST IN CASE I want to take trip". Does that make any sense to you? I didn't think so. :scratchhead:


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> And in your next post, you said you didn't want to make her jealous? :scratchhead: Are WE missing something here?
> 
> You cannot "make her jealous". She WANTS you to date other people. GREEN LIGHT = GO!
> 
> ...


Um, I don't want to make her jealous. Where am I trying to make her jealous? She is acting curious and suspicious just because I gave vague responses to her questioning me. I wasn't going on a date and when she asked me what I was doing, I told her. She just read more into than she needed to because I was vague. 

I'm not playing a game with her. But if I am the best me possible and that has a positive effect on our relationship, then yeah, I would be pleased.

If one of us moved, it would be her....not me. My name is actually the only one on the lease and I'm paying the bulk of the expenses.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Um, I don't want to make her jealous. Where am I trying to make her jealous? She is acting curious and suspicious just because I gave vague responses to her questioning me. I wasn't going on a date and when she asked me what I was doing, I told her. She just read more into than she needed to because I was vague.
> 
> I'm not playing a game with her. But if I am the best me possible and that has a positive effect on our relationship, then yeah, I would be pleased.
> 
> If one of us moved, it would be her....not me. My name is actually the only one on the lease and I'm paying the bulk of the expenses.


Then it looks like you are doomed until AUGUST, because she isn't going anywhere, and you won't ask her to leave.

So after 5 pages of this, we're back at square one and BTW there is no relationship with her. It's all in your head.............for some strange, odd reason. It's GONE! All you're left with is the skeleton of what it once was and it's haunting you day in and day out.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> Her feelings won't change. Once a woman makes up her mind/heart about man, good or bad, they WON'T change. She is saying to buy more time in the house, and you're falling for it. You are SO clueless!!
> 
> When she says things like that, it's like me saying "well I think I'll pack my suitcase and leave the car running JUST IN CASE I want to take trip". Does that make any sense to you? I didn't think so. :scratchhead:


I will say that I don't appreciate your condescending tone. And your stating your opinion as some type of absolute is a little much too.

Yes, I might be playing the fool here. But with everything considered I think that I'm trying to process through my feelings and the facts and do what benefits me most in the long run. 

If playing the fool means biding my time a bit and not piling one mistake upon another, then say what you will.

It's not like this had been going on for months or years. Just a couple of weeks.


----------



## raising5boyz (Nov 8, 2008)

Sorry, but I have to agree with the others. Espcially after you just said you are paying the bulk of the expenses! She is stringing you along for that reason and for a backup. Dang.....I mean she has it made! She is getting what she needs.....AT YOUR EXPENSE...both emotionally and financially! Sheesh....you sound like a great guy....I'm sure you could find someone who would treat you far better. Of course you said how hot she is...if you just want a dominant, overcontrolling hot chic on your arm then keep chasing her. Otherwise...find someone who will give back to you as much as you give to her. And yes, there are many beutiful women looking for a good man!


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I will say that I don't appreciate your condescending tone. And your stating your opinion as some type of absolute is a little much too.
> 
> Yes, I might be playing the fool here. But with everything considered I think that I'm trying to process through my feelings and the facts and do what benefits me most in the long run.
> 
> ...


No one here has told you anything that you want to hear, and you are in a very difficult situation mostly due to the fact that there are children involved. We all have our opinions here, and we're only trying to get you to wake up, smell the coffee, and hopefully realize there is no relationship with this girl. You really are just roommates. She WANTS you to date other people. You cannot make her jealous by doing so. For you to look good in her eyes, and not a doormat that is totally unattractive, you must carry on with your life as you would w/o her. At this point, you are going to have to force yourself to get out there and meet new people, or start hanging out with your friends more.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> she does want me around just in case her feelings change


Love is a choice. We all choose to make that choice (or not) every single day. It's not something that just 'happens' to you.

Just like you are choosing to stay in love with her, she's choosing the opposite.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> Love is a choice. We all choose to make that choice (or not) every single day. It's not something that just 'happens' to you.
> 
> Just like you are choosing to stay in love with her, she's choosing the opposite.


Yep. That's true. Admittedly, there are tons of things she loves about me. She just isin't 'in love' with me and with the absence of that without a long term committment (marriage) many people don't stick around to see if the spark will return.

When we(she) decided to back away from our relationship, I admitted that I didn't have those 'in love' feelings at the moment either because my needs weren't being met. But there was something different in the way that I viewd her as opposed to the way that she viewd me that made her back off instead of being committed enough to choose love. 

She's the one with the issues and tons of baggage, I'm the one who pretty much had my sh!t together.....but she pulled the trigger!


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> No one here has told you anything that you want to hear, and you are in a very difficult situation mostly due to the fact that there are children involved. We all have our opinions here, and we're only trying to get you to wake up, smell the coffee, and hopefully realize there is no relationship with this girl. You really are just roommates. She WANTS you to date other people. You cannot make her jealous by doing so. For you to look good in her eyes, and not a doormat that is totally unattractive, you must carry on with your life as you would w/o her. At this point, you are going to have to force yourself to get out there and meet new people, or start hanging out with your friends more.


That's not true. The people here have given me very useful insight. If I offer counterdebate give my thought process, doesn't mean I'm rejecting their advice. I process everything I see here and use what I think applies best.

I just didn't appreciate you calling me 'clueless' and repeated offensive tone.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Yep. That's true. Admittedly, there are tons of things she loves about me. She just isin't 'in love' with me and with the absence of that without a long term committment (marriage) many people don't stick around to see if the spark will return.
> 
> When we(she) decided to back away from our relationship, I admitted that I didn't have those 'in love' feelings at the moment either because my needs weren't being met. But there was something different in the way that I viewd her as opposed to the way that she viewd me that made her back off instead of being committed enough to choose love.
> 
> She's the one with the issues and tons of baggage, I'm the one who pretty much had my sh!t together.....but she pulled the trigger!



It's a shame she doesn't want you. IMO she's not ready for you. If you had met maybe 5 years in the future it may have been a different story. The place she's in emotionally isn't ready for what you have to offer, and who knows when it will be. It's selfish of her to hang onto you for 'just in case'. Selfish as all outside.

I'm sure you would like to think that what you both are doing is the right, mature, and unselfish thing to do, but really it's not. The longer this goes on, the more hurt you and the kids will get. It's not right.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> It's a shame she doesn't want you. IMO she's not ready for you. If you had met maybe 5 years in the future it may have been a different story. The place she's in emotionally isn't ready for what you have to offer, and who knows when it will be. It's selfish of her to hang onto you for 'just in case'. Selfish as all outside.
> 
> I'm sure you would like to think that what you both are doing is the right, mature, and unselfish thing to do, but really it's not. The longer this goes on, the more hurt you and the kids will get. It's not right.


Yeah, I think you're right. She's not ready. She thought she was and with two small kids it can change your priorities (and should). I'm a great dad and my own boys are model kids who she is soooo impressed with. That's a big draw for her, no doubt. 

A lot of it is that. But there is something else here, I think. It's kind of what Mem would say. Something changed about me that changed the way she responded to me. This relationship went out of balance and once she recognized that fear in me and I likely failed quite a few sh!t tests.....that attraction went down hill.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Yeah, I think you're right. She's not ready. She thought she was and with two small kids it can change your priorities (and should). I'm a great dad and my own boys are model kids who she is soooo impressed with. That's a big draw for her, no doubt.
> 
> A lot of it is that. But there is something else here, I think. It's kind of what Mem would say. Something changed about me that changed the way she responded to me. This relationship went out of balance and once she recognized that fear in me and I likely failed quite a few sh!t tests.....that attraction went down hill.


Playing house is too much like marriage. She just got out of one. You're a good man, good husband material.

She's just not ready for that right now.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> Playing house is too much like marriage. She just got out of one. You're a good man, good husband material.
> 
> She's just not ready for that right now.


You said a mouthful. You saying that jogged my memory. She was always wary of us blending and actually being a family. We had a conversation about it one night a while ago. 

She said "I know you're anxious for us to be a 'family'....but I'm just not comfortable with that yet. Down the road yes...but right now I'm still settling in and need more time."

She always encouraged me and my boys to go do things together without them. She wanted time for just her and her boys. I often wanted us to all do things together and she was resistant sometimes other than just being at home together. She loves my boys though. And they really like her too. She's just very protective of her kids and wasn't ready for me to be in that 'daddy' role for them just yet.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Read your thread through.

I think I have most of it ...

So tell me, what is the end-game here? Specifically, what is the end-game you are working towards having with this woman?

Hoping things fall into place?

Telling her she needs to go?


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Deejo said:


> Read your thread through.
> 
> I think I have most of it ...
> 
> ...


Deejo-

I'm in the process (like your post) of cutting to the chase as well. 

I can't kick her (and her boys) out. I could....but maybe I should say I won't. This is their home. Even as we stand, I'm fiercely protective of her and her well being. I care for her and sincerely want her to be safe, secure, healthy, and happy. That might sound like hogwash....but it's true. I've got enough hobbies and interests to keep me busy and out of the house. I'll put space between us, and when we're together we'll get along fine like always. It's a weird dynamic for me and this girl. In all my previous relationships I've commanded authority just being me. But she challenge that. We argue (still rarely) but more than any other relationship i've had. There's friction. But it's good. There's always a resolution and coming together after a conflict and we both dig that.

Back to point. 

So, I'll distance myself from her and find things to make me happy. Do things with friends, go to ball games, hang out with my kids. I'll stay at a friends near work on Monday and Tuesday nights to save on gas and give her some space.
I'm going to do my best to let her be and refocus my energies. I need to redefine myself and make some different long term goals. If it gets to be too much and I can't handle it I'll ask her to leave or give up my house altogether. If nothing changes with us, I'll wait out the lease and then find a smaller apartment if I have a job in the area, or if not move back to my old house near my current job when my renter's lease is up.

However.......at this moment (and that could change), I'm hoping she sees the 'me' that she fell in love with and comes around. But I'm not putting my eggs in that basket. When I'm ready, I'll find company with another woman if necessary. I've never had that problem. But maybe I need to be alone. Thinking back, though I was married for 12 years I havn't been out of some kind of a relationship over the past 17 yrs for more than 2 months. And that includes the 2 yrs since me and my exwife split.

I'll work to improve myself and be the best me. That's got to have some positive benefits no matter my relationship status. But just being honest, I'm not giving up on her completely.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I'm not giving up on her completely.


I think she wants you to, though, so she can really "just be friends" with you, as it seems it's what she wants.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I don't know of a woman that works that way (not saying it can't happen there are of course exceptions to every situation). 

To fall in love, then out, then suddenly fall back in love again with the same person? I don't think I know anyone that's happened to, at least not in a dating scenario. In the bonds of marriage this can happen, but as you mentioned before, in a marriage it's different. You're not obligated to TRY as hard in a dating situation. You're not that heavily invested. That's not to say you don't care for one another, you may very much, but not enough to stay together long term. 

In my experience, a woman knows what she wants and what she doesn't want, and usually doesn't change her mind about it. It doesn't matter how nice or sweet you act, if her mind is made, it's made. And if she's as strong as you say, I would say her mind is made and she doesn't want to come out and end it and do what she needs to do. She's told you she isn't ready for the 'family' thing. She meant it. I don't think continuing to live with her will change her mind on that. She won't suddenly snap into wanting a family with you, she knows that. She's just biding her time. 

Maybe in August when your lease is up, you'll have the crystal clear picture she's painted for you. By then maybe she'd have saved enough money to get a place of her own.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

GreenandBlue said:


> Deejo-
> 
> I'm in the process (like your post) of cutting to the chase as well.
> 
> ...


I understand your thinking, mostly because I shared it for quite some time. Wanted my ex to be secure, healthy and happy.

But ... if you are doing what you need to do ... then you will soon realize those aren't yours. They are hers. Isn't your job. Isn't your responsibility and the part that will likely be most difficult for you to get past ... it isn't your business.

The messed up factor is that she will tell you it isn't your business ... as she already has. But, when you embrace letting her crap go .... she'll be the first to ask "Why are you being distant?"

This is where your boundaries are important. 

My impression is that you need to be much more proactively 'difficult' with her. 

She likes the arrangement because she's comfortable. Odds are, the more independent you become, and express that independence, the less comfortable she will be.

The crap that she pulled a few days ago is a perfect example. Don't tolerate it. Don't cater to it. 

You actually go on a date with another woman? I'd bet a limb that she will want to know ALL about it.

The more distant you become, changing the current dynamic, the more she is likely going to try and pull you back into old behaviors. Do not confuse this for a desire to 'reconcile'. This is simply rebelling against change, specifically from circumstances that she felt more in control over.

I think overall what I would encourage you to prepare for, is this ending ... badly.

That would be my optimistic forecast.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Bit/ Deejo-

Maybe you're right. I surely can't argue with your reasoning. 

Yet, a part of me takes it as a challenge. As a motivating factor for self improvement. Rejection does stimulate that in me. 

This girl is more robust and with more depth of character and experience than any other woman I've met, despite her flaws. Never meshed so well intellectually with another person....our long talks on the patio out back are deep and so stimulating. She will be a hard habit to break (and I think vice versa).

But man, with my divorce and then this.....hard not to start hardening my heart and putting up walls. I've never been like that. Always quick to love and trust.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Deejo said:


> I think overall what I would encourage you to prepare for, is this ending ... badly.
> 
> That would be my optimistic forecast.


LOL. Optimistic, huh? 

Yeah, I think there's a good chance I'll be collecting more batle scars, too. 

However, without risk, there is no reward. But yeah, good chance of this ending with a KABOOM and a "get the [email protected]%k out". Just more material for the book.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Always quick to love and trust.


And that has certainly gotten you into this jar of pickles. Why don't you just take some time and think about all the advice given here. Think about yourself and your boys and your future with them. Afterall, that's really all you have right now. 

I'm with the others in that this will end very badly.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> This girl is more robust and with more depth of character and experience than any other woman I've met, despite her flaws. Never meshed so well intellectually with another person....our long talks on the patio out back are deep and so stimulating. She will be a hard habit to break (and I think vice versa).


It helps her cause to be as engaging with you as possible. To be everything you want and more. It keeps her in control and secure about her living arrangements. She asks about you dating someone because THAT is a threat to that comfortable set up she's got right now.

I don't know too many women that would date a man with this living arrangement and be A-OK with it.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Tell your dates she's a lesbian ...

Good conversation starter. And when she asks about your date ... tell her you told your date she's a lesbian.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> It helps her cause to be as engaging with you as possible. To be everything you want and more. It keeps her in control and secure about her living arrangements. She asks about you dating someone because THAT is a threat to that comfortable set up she's got right now.
> 
> I don't know too many women that would date a man with this living arrangement and be A-OK with it.


This is one of the first things I disagree with you about. Though she might not want to be out of this house, she's not a manipulator. She's painfully honest whether it benefits her or not. If she was just out to keep her house, she would never break up with me. She did it because she was miserable and something needed to change. She probably at that point thought I would put her out. I'm sure it was one of her chief concerns but she took the risk by being honest.

We've always communicated like that. It was a draw for since our conversation together. We talked for two weeks straight, 3 hours a night before our first date.

I actually think she WANTS me to go out with someone because it would give her more freedom to be okay with doing the same thing. Now, if I did go out with someone who knows what her actual reaction might be.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Thinking back, though I was married for 12 years I havn't been out of some kind of a relationship over the past 17 yrs for more than 2 months. And that includes the 2 yrs since me and my exwife split.


*BINGO!*

I briefly skimmed your latest analysis of what this woman thinks.

Doesn't matter.

What you said speaks volumes.

I have no intention of debating the merits, or lack thereof, regarding your roommate's/ex lover's mindset, motivations, agenda, or any such thing. Other posters are welcome to do so.

I thought about making another comment about your referenced quote, but I'll leave it to you to just chew on it for awhile.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm sure that has some merit. I just don't know any other way to be.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

You aren't "hearing" it. Some merit? You've only gone 2 months without some sort of a relationship with a woman for the past 17 years. Something to seriously ponder, my friend.

And guess what? It doesn't have jack to do with her. It has to do with you. When you get that, as I said about a zillion pages ago, you won't keep analyzing, offering counter-points, rationalizations, insights, etc.

You will lay all this down and look at all you ultimately have. You.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, I was married for most of that time or dating the woman I married. The only part that has much merit is the 2 years since I've been divorced.


----------



## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

Hello,

I was once in a situation similar to yours...my advice is to ask her to move out asap. She broke up with you, then she needs to move. As its stands the situation is way too confusing emotionally for everybody involved, and I agree with the others that it may end badly. Your behavior will bother each other even if neither one of you has any intention of getting back together. Someone will end up getting even more hurt. 

About 10 years ago when I was in college I lived with my then bf of 2 years. We shared the same room in an apartment. We had been on the outs for a while, fighting a lot and it had become really unhealthy. We had a really big fight and he broke up with me. 

He and I were still sleeping together in the same bed for over a month after that, because I hadn't moved out yet. We were on relatively good terms. I think we still hung out together sometimes during the month or so it took me to move. I can't remember if I asked him too much about what he was doing without me or whatever or vice versa. 

However, even if I thought we might get back together at first, it became really clear at least in my mind that we were broken up. It was right at the beginning of the fall semester that year, and him some of our other male roommates were often going out to meet and later date freshman girls. He met a girl that he had a date with, and was talking about it in front of me with our roommates. It really annoyed me, but as were were apart there was nothing I could do about it. By doing that I thought he was making it very clear it was over between us. 

Over a month after we broke up I was still living there. I was not dating or intending to date, but then I went out to a party and met a guy who I ended up seeing on and off for several years after. I was really smitten and on the rebound and the new guy and I slept together about two weeks after we met. I probably wouldn't do that now, but keep in mind I was very young at the time. The new guy knew I was still living with my ex, but that I was moving out soon. I kept the new relationship hidden from my ex, but he broke into my email account and found out! He went ballistic on me and called up the new guy and yelled at him. 

Apparently I had called my ex's bluff....maybe since we were still living together and getting along ok, he was thinking we were going to get back together up until that happened, although his behavior indicated the exact opposite! I thought his reaction was ridiculous, as he was dating other people himself, and he had started dating other people before I did. I guess he wanted to have his cake and eat it too. That is not what happened for him. 

Anyway, it got ugly. My Dad had to come up and give him a talking to. A room had just opened up in the apartment upstairs which I promptly took since I had to get away from him and the crazy situation. I had to get out of there in a hurry. It would not have been that way if I had moved out sooner. There would have been no confusion about where we stood. I was also lucky my ex did not totally ruin the relationship with the new guy. 

Anyway, my point is, broken is just that....broken up. I understand your situation is more complicated as children are involved, but as its stands you are neither here nor there with your live-in ex. The nature of the situation is inherently confusing and prohibitive for both of you. Its so much better not to have to see the person constantly and harbor secret emotions, play emotional games, etc. Just move on with your life. Neither of you is going to be able to date anyone else as it stands. You could really be missing out on something better.


----------



## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

To clarify something I wrote above, when I said my ex and I were still sleeping together in the same bed after we broke up, I don't mean we were intimate....we were just sharing the bed since I had no place to go. 

I related my story in the hopes it will help you.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks so much for your respones and all the help everyone is offering. Again, I process everything, even if I seem to reject it at first. That's just me. 

There is lots of wisdom on here and I thank you all so much.

About my ex acting so "all for" me going out on a date: She is a tremendously smart girl. One of the most intuitive and quick minded people I've ever met. She keeps me on my toes and I can't pass some weak half formumlated thoughts by her without her challenging me! (I love that, by the way). 

To point: If she is so quick and smart, how can she not see that me going out on a date would be detrimental to her situation??? Was she acting interested and supportive to get info from me? I ask because she should be able to see that if I was to be interested in someone else, that would REALLY motivate me to send her packing. Agree?

Surely she can't be missing that.


----------



## SolidSnake (Dec 6, 2011)

Not sure. People who are intellectually smart can be emotionally inept. Intelligence has nothing to do with how emotionally mature you are.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Green,
All this Obsessive analysis is not healthy. You will never detach with her in the house.

And stop putting her on this pedestal. She had no business asking you repeatedly who you were going out with and you didn't have the boundaries to tell her it isn't her business. 



GreenandBlue said:


> Thanks so much for your respones and all the help everyone is offering. Again, I process everything, even if I seem to reject it at first. That's just me.
> 
> There is lots of wisdom on here and I thank you all so much.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

MEM11363 said:


> Green,
> All this Obsessive analysis is not healthy. You will never detach with her in the house.
> 
> And stop putting her on this pedestal. She had no business asking you repeatedly who you were going out with and you didn't have the boundaries to tell her it isn't her business.
> ...


Man, I must be coming off as one sick puppy. I'm actually doing quite well and my emotional state is good. I've been through a divorce and a cheating wife in the past.....this is not in the same ballpark.

I'm just thinking out loud, for the most part. And honestly, if she would have come off in a negative, angry fashion with her questions I would have told her to respect my business. What I did tell her was that I was not comfortable talking about my dating life.

But seriously, if I meet someone and REALLY like them it would become imperative for me to ask her to leave. She doesn't want that...but does want me to date???? 

I've considered dating. But like the poster said above, I haven't spent much time with just "me" and I'm not sure how fair it would be to the other woman.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

Let's wipe the slate clean a bit and I'll let you guys know what I'm thinking.

1. I really do love this girl. There is a connection/bond that I feel for her that runs deep. Our relationship foundation has always been communication.

2. I know my love for her is not enough. Reality is a SOB and I'm coming to grips with that. But that is a process. Just because I tell myself to accept it, doesn't mean it happens quickly.

3. I've got to be true to me and take care of myself. Figure out what makes me happiest and embrace it. Push fear from my heart.

4. I've got to make a decision about my living situation. It's now evident to me that when we broke up and she pitched the friends/roommates idea it was to give her an option to stay in the house. I know she is feeling guilty. I'm paying most of living expenses for her to live here and we're not a couple? She's told me it bothers her and expects to contribute more when child support comes in and she gets a raise soon. If she were my girlfriend, that's acceptable. But not otherwise. 

5. If/when one of us brings another person into the mix this thing will get ugly. Either I will explode or she will flip out. Tick....tick...tick.....it's inevitable.

6. I know I lost my man card for a while there, but I need to start moving towards talking to her about moving out. I told her before we moved in together that I could never be just roommates with her. I said if she wasn't sure about 'us', we shouldn't consider doing this. She knows now that she made a mistake. I don't think she intentionally fooled herself, but you have to follow the natural progression of a relationship and we skipped several important steps.

7. I'm not ready to date. I instinctively want to fill that void with a female distraction. But I chatted up a girl I just met yesterday, which felt okay. But my heart felt burdened this morning and I can feel the pull of my committment and love for my ex. It's a process, I know.

8. Even after saying all of that, I don't know if I will ever completely exstinguish that flame I have for her. We can all look back to a special person in our past that we wish things could have been different with (even moreso than in my marriage). Maybe the timing was bad, but we could sense that there was tremendous potential with this person to be something special. There was inspiration there. I've never had a relationship where I felt true inspiration and a connection so powerful. She did inspire me like no one before. I might not have painted a rosy picture of her, but she is so unique and has so much victory in her life after some dark days...I was hooked. I've spent the past year with her on my brain every single day. I can move on, but I am aware that I would have a difficult time rejecting her if she pursued me down the road. She admitted to knowing that when we got back together after out 4 month hiatus. Just another reason that we lost balance and the 'power' shifted too heavily in her favor.


9. Time and space.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> I told her before we moved in together that I could never be just roommates with her.


And yet she talked you into it (sounds like manipulation to me, even though you say it couldn't possibly be). You want to be true to yourself? then stand by your convictions that were laid out from the beginning, before you moved in together.

Nothing else to be said about that.



> 3. I've got to be true to me and take care of myself.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

A Bit Much said:


> And yet she talked you into it (sounds like manipulation to me, even though you say it couldn't possibly be). You want to be true to yourself? then stand by your convictions that were laid out from the beginning, before you moved in together.
> 
> Nothing else to be said about that.


Well, I know I catch a lot of flack for sticking up for her, but no, she wasn't manipulating me. Not that it matters at this point.

I proposed this move. I put the wheels in motion. She would never yank her kids around like that if she wasn't sure. She even made mention of that. In her heart, at that time, she was sure that this was the right move to make and that this likely a precursor to marriage in the future. I'm a great dad and represent family, stability, and security to her. We didn't like living 100 miles apart and wanted to do this together. Our relationship just wasnt' strong enough yet. 

But I put all of this together. Put it out there. She took some time talked it over with her family. They supported our decision (in large part because they loved me and wanted her to be with me). She was more reticent than me.

She wasn't manipluting me. In a way, I feel I was manipulating her.

But yes, I've got to refocus and take care of myself and my kids. Ultimately, she is responsible for herself and she would agree with that sentiment.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Well, I know I catch a lot of flack for sticking up for her, but no, she wasn't manipulating me. Not that it matters at this point.
> 
> I proposed this move. I put the wheels in motion. She would never yank her kids around like that if she wasn't sure. She even made mention of that. In her heart, at that time, she was sure that this was the right move to make and that this likely a precursor to marriage in the future. I'm a great dad and represent family, stability, and security to her. We didn't like living 100 miles apart and wanted to do this together. Our relationship just wasnt' strong enough yet.
> 
> ...



At the very least, she was irresponsible. I'm a mother and I've been in her shoes before. I would have NEVER put my children in a situation like this (I have 2). They can't afford the confusion all this has caused them, it's not fair. If I wasn't marrying the guy, I'm not going to move in together... why would I? It's just not prudent. 

As a mom when you're single and dating, the children and their welfare come first... before your needs and wants and desires, their needs have to be met. Your 'ex' should have stayed with her parents, or at the very least moved out and into her OWN home with those kids. This is not a mess they need to be in the middle of.

No matter what you said to me, I wouldn't have done it. Your desires for us would have come a distant second to what my kids needed... no offense. My husband and I have shared a blended family for almost 10 years. I set the rules with him when we met, and we fell hard and fast for one another too. Under no uncertain terms was I about to put my children (he has none of his own) through ANOTHER break up or situation where they had to be moved around and confused about a man in their lives. It's not responsible.

She needs to move out. Period.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> At the very least, she was irresponsible. I'm a mother and I've been in her shoes before. I would have NEVER put my children in a situation like this (I have 2). They can't afford the confusion all this has caused them, it's not fair. If I wasn't marrying the guy, I'm not going to move in together... why would I? It's just not prudent.
> 
> As a mom when you're single and dating, the children and their welfare come first... before your needs and wants and desires, their needs have to be met. Your 'ex' should have stayed with her parents, or at the very least moved out and into her OWN home with those kids. This is not a mess they need to be in the middle of.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

I agree that it sucks for them to move so often. It is a touchy subject for her too. She hates that they've moved so often.

In hindsight, it was irresponsible. We really did think this was what we both wanted long term and I for one thought we would be engaged in a matter of months. We were so in love earlier this year. Painfully in love. She understood that you don't date a man like me without longterm intentions. 

I believe she still wishes that her heart matched what her head is telling her. She's a single mom. She wants her kids to have stability and the security of a family environment. At least from what she has told me, she is completely confused as to why she doesn't feel like she did earlier this year.

But like I said, in the reality of the situation, none of that makes a difference at this point.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> I agree that it sucks for them to move so often. It is a touchy subject for her too. She hates that they've moved so often.
> 
> In hindsight, it was irresponsible. We really did think this was what we both wanted long term and I for one thought we would be engaged in a matter of months. We were so in love earlier this year. Painfully in love. She understood that you don't date a man like me without longterm intentions.
> 
> ...


If you both felt the same way and wanted the same thing (even several months ago), you'd be married right now and not living like roommates. You should have gotten married and then moved in together. If everything was right, that was the time to just go ahead and do it. IMO she didn't feel the same as you, no matter how much you would like to believe she did. No matter how many conversations you had with her about it, she's never been completely on the same page with you.

Something that good and right doesn't just go away... I'm living proof that it doesn't. I made the right decision and I know without a shadow of a doubt the man I married was the man for me AND my children. It all clicked together perfectly. My children love and respect him and now they're grown and it's time for he and I to really connect to one another as husband and wife. BTW, we moved in together 8 weeks before the wedding, and it was MY home before it was ours. He gave up his place to move to us.

That's what SHOULD have happened with you two. It didn't, and it won't. She needs to leave. Take her kids and go back to her mom's. Get her act together before she goes and tries to build a life with someone else. Be a better example to her kids. Running off and moving in with a guy and playing house isn't a good example of what to do. She needed to show them she could be strong as a parent by herself. They already had a parent that let them down, and she's all they have. They don't need her to disappoint them too.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

The point I'm making here is it's not about just you and her. And honestly the fallout of this mess is her fault. You want what you want, while she has no idea what she wants, add the fact that she's got 2 kids to raise and look after. The last thing she should have been doing is involving herself so deeply with a man so that the kids would be affected in such a way. It's selfish really. Like I said, a single mom can't do what a single woman with no kids can do... the rules are MUCH different. Too many other people depend on you to make the right choices and provide some consistency and stability, that you really can't afford to make dumb knee jerk decisions. Things have to be carefully and fully considered. In other words, you can't THINK you know what is right, you have to KNOW without a shadow of a doubt or you're going to do more harm. If she was sure she wouldn't have needed to poll her family and get their approval. She is a GOOD mother, she was born with intuition and instinct. We know what's best for our kids, it's innate.

She can't afford to make these kinds of mistakes. Her kids don't deserve that. They need her too much.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

It's obvious after 8 pages of this what needs to be done. But it won't happen. They'll continue to live in this damaging-to-the-kids environment, and continue to make excuses as to why they should.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

I didn't want to come off so harsh, but I feel so strongly about this. If I hadn't had to go through it myself I might feel differently. My kids were my touchstone after I got divorced. I would have curled up into a ball and died if it weren't for them. They MADE me get my act together and be strong for them. They needed me to, they depended on me to. They came first, and if it meant I didn't date then so be it. I was prepared to raise them first and have a life later. 

Everything had to be clicking... we all had to be just right for each other for it to work.


----------



## GreenandBlue (Oct 20, 2009)

southern wife said:


> It's obvious after 8 pages of this what needs to be done. But it won't happen. They'll continue to live in this damaging-to-the-kids environment, and continue to make excuses as to why they should.


Really? I would say that this is a terrific environment for the kids. The fact they will likely have to move again soon sucks. But this house and atmosphere is not at all damaging. Despite us not sleeping together, we still work together to make sure they are happy. We aren't fighting. We've had conflicts, but other than a couple of occasions these were problems normal in any household.

Lots of good advice on here and I appreciate all the responses as I go through this process. But it's only been a short time. I'll do what I think is best. And right now, I can't see us living together in this situation. But with all that's involved and the lives effected, I'm trying to gain proper perspective. It has been and continues to be therapeutic to share on this board and have others offer insight.


----------



## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Really? I would say that this is a terrific environment for the kids. The fact they will likely have to move again soon sucks. But this house and atmosphere is not at all damaging. Despite us not sleeping together, we still work together to make sure they are happy. We aren't fighting. We've had conflicts, but other than a couple of occasions these were problems normal in any household.
> 
> Lots of good advice on here and I appreciate all the responses as I go through this process. But it's only been a short time. I'll do what I think is best. And right now, I can't see us living together in this situation. But with all that's involved and the lives effected, I'm trying to gain proper perspective. It has been and continues to be therapeutic to share on this board and have others offer insight.


No, it's not damaging in the physical abuse, emotional abuse senses. But as mentioned, all the moving with her kids is just unstable for her children. That is what I was referring to.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Thanks so much for your respones and all the help everyone is offering. Again, I process everything, even if I seem to reject it at first. That's just me.
> 
> There is lots of wisdom on here and I thank you all so much.
> 
> ...


I think the problem with your analysis is that you assume she is completely rational, sitting down, considering all of the options and then acting accordingly. Very few people are like this. People are confused, they think and speak logically yet act emotionally. It is not necessarily even intential or malicious. You seem to assume that what she says is what she means, even if her actions contradict those words.


----------



## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

GreenandBlue said:


> Really? I would say that this is a terrific environment for the kids. *The fact they will likely have to move again soon sucks.* But this house and atmosphere is not at all damaging. Despite us not sleeping together, we still work together to make sure they are happy. We aren't fighting. We've had conflicts, but other than a couple of occasions these were problems normal in any household.
> 
> Lots of good advice on here and I appreciate all the responses as I go through this process. But it's only been a short time. I'll do what I think is best. And right now, I can't see us living together in this situation. But with all that's involved and the lives effected, I'm trying to gain proper perspective. It has been and continues to be therapeutic to share on this board and have others offer insight.


Let's not forget their attachment to you in all this. You're not just mommy's FRIEND no matter how innocent your interaction is with her. Kids aren't stupid. You've taken the role of a father to them. How do you think that's going to play out in the long run? 

Think of how confusing this is going to be further down the road... first you were sleeping together. Now you aren't and in seperate rooms. You each end up dating others... still in the same house. How confusing for them. To them, you and she are a couple. A family. What are you showing the kids? Yours included?


----------

