# Please help - I think my husband had an emotional affair, and I can't get over it



## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

All - 

I am new to this forum, and I hope you can help me. I believe my husband had an emotional affair and I can't get over it. I don't have the money for counseling and I have been dealing with this situation for over a year now and am I too embarrassed and ashamed to talk to my family and friends about this, so I have nowhere else to turn. 

For 10 years, my husband and I (we are both 35) had a pretty wonderful marriage - we had fights, yes, but we managed to work through our issues and were stronger for it. We experienced a pregnancy loss and the sudden death of his father, and both experiences made us a stronger couple. 

Then, a few months after his dad died, he found out that one of his employees, a young girl about 24 years old, had attempted suicide, and he freaked out. He started spending increasing time with her, talking to her more often, and then when she moved to Japan for a time, he began having two hour-plus Skype conversations with her. He was open at first about his interactions with her, and he said his only desire was to help her because it scared him that she had attempted suicide. I understood that - in the past, he has always tried to help friends with their problems - and so I tried to quell my discomfort at the amount of time he was spending with her and did my best to accept it. 

Then I found out I was pregnant. Because of my previous pregnancy loss, I really needed his support, and I told him that. In fact, on many occasions, my need for his support grew more and more frantic, but he continued to say that this young girl really needed his support and he needed to be there for her (she had recently returned to the U.S. and was now a physical presence again in his life). He even said once that I was a "stronger person" than she was and that she needed him more. To his credit, he did things like go with me to doctor's appointments and birthing class, but he frequently seemed distant in our interactions, like he wasn't there. I also discovered that he and this girl were texting constantly - multiple times a day - and saying "love you" to one another, which he hadn't told me about. He claimed they just loved each other as friends, but I was having a very difficult time believing that. It could have been pregnancy hormones, but to this day it feels like a violation that he said that via text to someone I barely know who is over a decade younger than him. Both he and I have used the word "obsessed" to describe his initial relationship with her. 

We began to have fights about his relationship with her, and I began to throw out the term "emotional affair." I asked him repeatedly to look it up and do some research on it, but he kept blowing it off and saying that all he was trying to do was help this girl. And yet, he couldn't point to a reason why they were friends, other than that he was trying to help her get over her suicide attempt. In fact, he was often frustrated with her lack of consideration for him - for example, they would make plans and she would cancel at the last minute to go out with other people. She didn't even remember the first anniversary of his father's death, which to me is pretty unforgiveable for someone who is a "close" friend. 

And in addition, in that time she never made an attempt to get to know me other than on a purely superficial level. 

We have been fighting for months now - nearly a year about this - and some things have changed in that time. Our baby has been born and has special needs, although he's doing great, and because of the added stress of a new baby and being alone with no family nearby and this situation continuing, I do not feel like our relationship is improving much. 

My husband eventually realized that his closeness with this girl was inappropriate and so "backed off" a bit in his friendship with her, but he refuses to admit that what they had was an emotional affair. He still says he was just trying to be there for her, but I know for a fact that they discussed a great deal of private, emotional information, that he shared less of himself with me during that time, that he wasn't there for me when I needed him, and that he kept those texts and that they said "love you" to one another a secret from me. 

He does admit that he thinks he tried to save her because he couldn't save his dad, which I completely understand, but I also asked him for months to go see a therapist about his father, and he went one time and then never went back. 

I can forgive him almost anything related to this, but there's one thing I can't forgive - he still has not cut this girl out of our lives. 

Yesterday, we had a 6 hour fight about this, and we went over the same ground we always do. I have tried everything - everything - to try to move past this without giving him an ultimatum to get rid of her, because I feel like his resentment of me would be overpowering if I forced him to cut her out. He says that he can't do it because his principals won't let him - he sees being a loyal friend and trying to forgive people as fundamental to him, and he feels like he owes it to her to give her a second chance because she apologized to him for her mistreatment of him and has asked if she can apologize to me. He also says he doesn't understand why I feel the way I do about the emotional affair issue because he never had romantic feelings about her, but I said it doesn't matter - that it's the emotional connection that was the violation to me. Also, I frankly think he's given her about fifteen chances to prove herself and she has failed over and over again, and I am not interested in her apology. I know that sounds terrible, but if she had been a friend to begin with, I would feel differently. She and I have no friendship as a basis, and I have no desire to be friends with someone who monopolizes the time of a married man. My husband says she didn't know that was inappropriate, but I'm sorry - ignorance is not an excuse for terrible behavior. 

I've tried ignoring her, restricting their time together, having him not see her for a little while, but nothing works. He has said he will end his friendship with her for our marriage, but he only agrees to do it when pushed, and he constantly says that it will be "really hard for him" to do it. To his credit, he has tried very hard to do things for me to show me he loves me, but he does not understand why I can't live with her and him continuing their friendship. I am in so much pain and I am so lonely right now and I don't know what to do. I can't seem to make him understand why this has hurt me so much. This is the first time I've ever asked him to abandon a friend, and it's the first time I've ever been hurt so badly by anything he has done, and I just can't seem to get over it. 

We are moving to another state in a few months, and I have asked him to decrease his contact with her once we move. I really want him to end his contact with her completely, but I don't feel like I can ask that of him, and I don't understand why he isn't willing to do it on his own to save his marriage. 

I honestly don't know how much longer I can go on like this. He is furious at me right now because he feels like all the work he put in in the past few months to make me feel better has been for nothing. I told him when he started doing that what I really wanted was her gone and that there was no guarantee that what he did would make me feel better. 

I am coming to you all because I need an objective perspective - I feel like I am slowly going crazy right now and like I'm a shell of the person I used to be. I do not want to consider divorce because he was and is a good husband in many ways and an excellent father, but I can't live like this. Please tell me your opinion - Did he have an emotional affair? Am I being reasonable to ask him to stop being friends with this person? Should I force him to cut her out of his life? 

I don't know what to do. Please, please help me. I have nowhere else to go.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You are right, he is wrong.
Your feelings are 100% correct.
You don't need any therapy.

Is there anything you would not do for your husband if he asked you to do it?

Would you give up a male friend if your husband asked you to do it, simply because he needed you to do it?

If you answer these questions as yes, then you have to decide what standard you have for a husband in your life.... Someone who will reasonably do something becuase it's important to his wife, or someone who is at best selfish and at worst and adulterer....

Personally, the only way to get him to stop is the choice between his marriage and his friendship. If he chooses his marriage of his own free will, then don't stand for him resenting you...


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

Hicks - Thank you. I desperately needed someone to say that. And to answer your questions, yes - I would do whatever he needed in order to save our marriage. I have even told him that I would give up a friend if they had hurt him as badly as she has hurt me because I made a marriage vow to him above all else, and that seems to me especially important now that we have a child. 

Thanks for your frank advice.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Almost sounds like a one-sided emotional affair...as it seems like he is codependently trying to rescue this girl, like he is Jesus or something...while she kinda calls when she just needs something fixed. I knew a guy like this...just loved being needed, being the rescuer, gave him an elevated sense of purpose...but usually targeted rescue cases that were emotionally compromised. I code these people as love addicts.
I think you need to throw down the gauntlet...tell him to make a choice...and if he chooses marriage, then he needs to stop this, communicate with this girl that communication has to end between them, and then start reinvesting in the marriage. No exceptions!!! If he says no, then have a plan to separate...and if he is still unbending, the you ought to be released from this. If he agrees, but starts acting odd, being secretive and whatnot...then blow him out of the water. BTW, is he open in his communications when you are around...or does he close windows when you walk in the room, lock his phone? Have you been freely been able to access his internet/ chat/email history...or has he been expertly deleting them? This is another sign. Time to not let fear hold you hostage, prepare yourself for a worse case scenario (zombie apocalypse style) and have an emergency readiness/ bug-out plan.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

Former Self, thanks for the input. He doesn't seem secretive - I have free access to his cell phone, to social media, and to his browsing history, which is pretty thorough. I try not to be nosy and go through those things, but he left his Facebook messages open not long ago on messages between himself and this girl, and he was sending her poetry. To be honest, it was poetry about empowerment and living life, it was still poetry, and some of the language was way too intimate and close to romantic. I just sat at the computer and cried and cried and cried when I found it. I can't tell you the last time he did anything like that for me. He also said "love you" again in that message. It's not "I love you," but at this point, it seems like semantics. I've told him before that I'm not at all comfortable with him saying that to her, and yet he completely violated my trust and said it again. I don't know a married woman alive who would be ok with her husband sending poetry to another woman and saying "love you." I have yet to mention this to him because I haven't been able to even admit to myself that he did that, it feels like such a betrayal. This is actually the first time I've even written about it - I can't even bring myself to say it out loud. And I agree that he does seem to like to save people, especially young women who are dysfunctional and needy. I just wish he could see that right now, his marriage needs saving more than that girl.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

lillya5512 - so very sorry you're here and going through this.

Personally I think your husband is way way out of line and for me seeing that they exchanged "I love yous" .... that would have been a deal breaker... a heart breaker!

He needs to cut her out of your lives now...today.... not in a few months when you move.

Loyalty is grand but his loyalty is terribly misplaced... he needs to put you, your child and your marriage before the OW... it really IS that simple.

If he gets mad...so what??? You've cried and anguished over this for a long time now... why should he not feel some discomfort after what he has done to your marriage.

You're being way too nice about this... being nice doesn't work in these situations.


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

You are 100% correct to feel the way you do. 

His behavior is disgraceful. 

Have you asked him how he'd feel if the roles were reversed? If he caught you saying "love you" to a coworker that you wouldn't stop communicating with? (I suspect he'd blow a gasket)

I do recommend marriage counseling at this point. If he won't go please try to see an Indiviual Counselor (IC) for yourself. Your insurance my pay for some initial visits.

But let me be clear here - many many people would divorce over this behavior. If your husband won't knock this cr*p off I don't see another option for you.

Good Luck.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

His "working on your relationship" means nothing as long as she is involved in his life. A marriage is two people not three. And yes - he is being irresponsible in his treatment of his marriage. 

Does the planned move put you closer to your loved ones or does it separate you further? If it separates you - you should seek the advice of a lawyer before you go. Once you're even more isolated it will be harder on you to make your case.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

waiwera - thanks for your support. For months, I've felt like the crazy wife and a bad person for asking him to stop spending time with this woman, and I really needed to hear from someone that that wasn't the case. As for the "love yous," I'm not sure if she ever said it back to him - I suspect it was one-sided, because I honestly haven't seen any evidence that she cares about him as much as he cares about her, but still, it doesn't matter. I've told him how much that hurts me, and he obviously hasn't listened. 

I also agree that we need to be put first and not her. I will say that he has been working really hard - doing stuff around the house, nice gestures, volunteering to take the baby off my hands - and he always tells me he loves me, but I can't shake the feeling that he is still devoting time and energy to her that should be devoted to our marriage. When I saw those poems in his Facebook message box and the "love you" that he sent her, I knew that I was right. That does not at all feel like the "distanced" friendship that he claims that they have. I don't know a single male friend of mine that I would ever send poetry to or say "love you" too, and I have good friends that I have known far longer and far better than he knows this woman. I also feel like that would be crossing a line that shouldn't be crossed when you are married. 

I know I am probably being too nice about this (although my husband would probably not agree since he's been the recipient of my screaming and yelling about this), but it is incredibly hard for me to let go of a marriage that I have invested 10 years in and that was a good one up until this point. Also, it's incredibly hard for me to think about what that means for my son's future. I am going to have to think about what is best for me and my family. But I am definitely going to talk to him again tonight now that I have some perspective from others on this. I am crying tears of relief right now because somebody has finally told me that I have a right to feel the way I feel about this.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

Thanks, Iver - I so needed to hear that. 

As for the reverse, he has said that he wouldn't have a problem with me having a relationship like this with another man. I don't believe it for a minute. In my opinion, he can't see this situation objectively because he is so blinded by what I call the "white knight" syndrome - that desire to be the savior to this young girl, although she never asked for him to assume that role - and because I never have (and never would) put him in this kind of situation, I think that's very easy for him to say that he would have no problem with it because there's never a worry that he'll ever have to experience it. I think that if I had done to him what he is doing to me, if I had put him through this kind of pain and anguish, that he would have separated from me and begun divorce proceedings. 

I think that he is incapable of seeing clearly the situation he has put me in because he is still grieving his father and he sees giving up on this woman as giving up on his father. And because he hasn't returned to therapy (I did go to therapy after his father's death, by the way, because I knew I needed it), I don't think he is able to see what's really going on because there is no one to serve as an objective foil for him on this subject, and every time I talk to him he just thinks I'm attacking his principles (sorry, honey, what I'm doing is attacking behavior that is out of line for a married man). He's one of those guys who thinks he can handle things like this on his own without help, and he's proven spectacularly that he can't. He just can't see that.

What is so sad in all of this is that, despite this situation, he is truly one of the most generous, loyal, giving people I know - it's one of the reasons I married him in the first place. I know that those of you reading this might not believe it because of what I have said, but this is a man that I have known since I was 10 years old, and he is a good person at heart. He is just deeply, deeply wrong on this issue, and he is in so much pain about his father that he can't see it. 

That being said, I completely agree with you - many people would divorce over this behavior, and if things don't change, I'll have to consider it, no matter how much it breaks my heart to think about it.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

walkonmars, I've said that several times now - I can't have a third person in my marriage, and that's the way it's been for months now. Every time we argue about something, her name comes up, because it feels to me like every issue comes back to that one for me because it's such a festering wound. I'm to the point now when I actually physically sick to my stomach when I think about her and hear her name. I saw her name on Facebook this morning, and I ran to the bathroom and threw up. I've never done that before in my life. This situation is taking over who I am - it's making me a monster.

Thankfully, the move puts me much closer to family. We decided to do it because I'm going back to school and we knew we needed some additional help with the baby because right now we're overwhelmed. Thank God I'll be closer to people who know and love me and not all alone anymore. I'm going to have to talk to my family about this at some point, but I know that I'm going to break down in hysterics when I do, and I'd rather do it in person than far away because I know my mom will freak out once she understands what this has done to me.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Lilly, I'm so sorry you're going through this. He doesn't get any slack because his father died. Mine did too - mom too. It should have been an occasion to review his dad's life and his own. Then to live his life in a way that would have made his dad proud and strengthened his family. 

I guess his degree in psychology made him eminently and singularly qualified to counsel the poor girl. (He does have one right? - no? - then he should have directed her to one). He's trying to be a knight in shiny armor and will lose everything if he doesn't watch his step. 

Don't be embarrassed or ashamed. You're having the same kind of guilt that is common with some rape victims. Stop it! 

Hold you head up high. You are trying to protect your family. There's no shame in seeking help in doing that.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

I believe it was an an EA. maybe he had feelings for her, maybe he didn't. But i think it was out of line. 

I think your husband should make a post on this forum, get him to give his side. People on this forum will make him understand what he's doing wrong
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

You don't have to get over it until he is out of the relationship with the other woman. 

He was telling another woman "I love you" and hiding it from you. He lost his right to take the high road. Even if it is love between friends, the fact he hid it destroys the intimacy of your marriage.

You can let him have his side relationship and share your man with this other woman, or you can fight for his sole attention. The open salvo of that fight is to make him choose, you or her. He is free to console her all he wants, you are also free to serve him divorce papers.

The fact she works for him complicates life. He has opened himself up for a wrongful termination lawsuit if he fires her without cause. If he has cause, he will need to document it well. 

Hopefully the business is large enough that he can get things arranged that she reports to someone else. If they can work at separate locations that's ideal. 

When you say she is one of his employees I'm assuming that means he has ownership stake in the business. If that's not the case. If he is just a manager there, then you seriously need to consider him looking for another job. 

If they must continue to work out of the same location, then the no contact letter needs to be very specific that they can only talk business. No pleasantries, no discussing life and he is not her mentor. If there is an after work social meeting, your husband can only attend if she is not present. If she is there, he must leave.

If for some reason they must have a discussion, it must be in your presence along with the HR manager of the business (unless that's him, in that case a good lawyer experienced in employee relations).


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

walkonmars, you just made me cry. Again! Thank you so much for your support. 

I think this is exactly part of my husband's trouble - he is trying to live by his principles like his dad did and do his father proud (and in so many ways, he HAS done his father proud), but right now, that's coming into conflict with what's best for his family, and he's absolutely paralyzed by it. I can't tell you how many times he's said "I don't know what to do. I'm lost." I've been trying to tell him as many ways as I know how that that indicates that something about his current path isn't right, but he just can't listen to me anymore. 

And yep, you're right - he has no degree in psychology. And his little friend is going to a therapist of some sort, but she needs "extra" help - she's got a network of friends as long as my arm that she runs to any time there's drama (and believe me, there's an awful lot of drama in this girl's life). And I understand that drama at 24 might be normal, but for God's sake keep me and my family out of it. My husband is not your therapist! Get your own life and stop co-opting mine! 

Whew, ok. Sorry. I just have to get that out of my system every once in a while. I'm made to feel like the villain every time I say anything bad about her, because "she's only 24" and "she didn't understand it was inappropriate." 

I hope someday I can show you the support you've shown me. I honestly don't know what I would have done today if I hadn't found this support system.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

lillya5512 said:


> As for the reverse, he has said that he wouldn't have a problem with me having a relationship like this with another man. I don't believe it for a minute.


When my wife was still in defense mode of her online sexual EA I asked her that and she claimed it wouldn't bother her. A year later I asked the same question. She reluctantly admitted she would have been crushed. She admitted the only reason she said that was she knew I would not do something like that and she was ashamed and didn't want to admit what she was doing was wrong.

So you are very wise not to believe it.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

ubercoolpanda, thank you for that. And I think your suggestion is a great idea - I hadn't thought about having him post here, but that seems like a good idea. I hope I can convince him to do it. I hadn't planned on letting him know that I was posting here - I was thinking of it as my own personal, private space to vent - but it might be a good idea. I tried to represent things as fairly and accurately as I could, but I'm sure there are things he might see differently that might lend more insight into what's going on between us and how to repair it if we can. 

Thank you so much for that suggestion - I'm going to think about it long and hard.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

Thanks, Acoa, for both of those posts. The point about work I think is a good one. I've tried to warn him about becoming friends with the people you work with and especially the people that work FOR you, but he is one of those people who wants to be the fun, friendly boss and wants everyone to like working for him, and so I think he sets himself up to have things get sticky because he befriends so many people there. I'll definitely mention that to him. 

As for whether or not he'd really have a problem with, yeah, I don't believe it. I don't think that he can see this situation clearly right now at all, so I don't believe that he understands what that would really mean and what he would feel emotionally if I were doing things like sending another guy poetry and saying "love you" after being admittedly obsessed with him.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Your husband is devoting time and energy to another woman, that is a betrayal. He should be devoting his time and energy to his wife and child, he has no business being so involved in a non-related unmarried females life. 

I would encourage him to read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass, perhaps that will enlighten him to the damage he is creating in his marriage. 

I hope he wakes up sooner than later, if possible I would encourage the two of you to seek marriage counseling. I would imagine that the resentment is beginning to build and if this continues you may not be able to regain the loving relationship you had. 

I am sorry you are in this situation, especially when this should be a joyful time with your new baby. His actions are tainting your future memories of this precious time.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

Aunt Ava, thank you. I agree completely. And my hope is that, as soon as we can make our move, we will be able to seek marriage counseling, because I think we desperately need it. We are just in a situation right now where one of us is with the baby at all times and the other one is at work and we have a hard time finding a babysitter, so it's basically impossible right now. But that is on my agenda as soon as we make our move.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

This is Lillya's husband. I will tell my side of the story as well as I can. I welcome your input. I am deeply torn with this. I love my wife. I love her to death. I think she is incredible. I want very much to remain her husband. I want very much to remain a father to my incredible child.

This person did indeed work for me. She is now an independent contractor for us. We had always been friendly, had really good conversations and became close friends with a shared passion for several things. I learned about her suicide attempt during the time just before she moved to Japan for a while. We then kept in pretty close contact over the next few months, talking on Skype for 2-3 hours a few times a week. Often we talked just bs, sharing funny videos, music, writing and things of that nature. But we also talked a lot about my father's death and her suicide attempt. I know that I reacted to her suicide attempt negatively. I fully admit that. I became obsessed... not with her necessarily, but certainly with her well-being and psyche. 

My father hit by a car and killed while walking the dog one morning. There was absolutely nothing I could do and he was gone and I was helpless. So when I was presented with a person just a few months later who I already felt close to who had attempted suicide... I felt as if I would be damned if I was going to lose another person who was close to me. I felt as if I had some level of control over that situation like I didn't with my father and I wasn't going to let her go too. So I did, wrongly, make it my sole mission to show this person that she had value, that life was worth living. I believe that I was a real help at times. And at times I was overbearing. Frankly, it caused some problems in the friendship as well as my marriage. I wanted her to come to me with problems and made myself WAY too available to any need... all in some misguided mission to solve all her problems. I put pressure on her even to come to me with her issues which caused some problems for our friendship. I am aware that this was wrong and I know where it came from. 

When Lillya became pregnant, I was definitely still in that place, where I was both grieving the loss of my father and trying to be the emotional support for someone who'd tried to kill herself as if I could save her. At the same time, I certainly made every attempt to be there for Lillya. We went to a 12 week birthing class together. I cooked often, tried to take care of the house and let her rest. I was thrilled that she was pregnant and thrilled with the prospect of becoming a father. I went to every OB appointment with her. We talked often about what parenthood would be like. That said, I know I was distracted, still very very worried about my friend and doing what I could do for her. So there were times when I texted for a long time, at least one time when she was in a really awful place that I was gone for several hours to offer support. I spent an hour or two once a week or so grabbing a beer and catching up with her. And I failed my wife in that. I failed in that I was so blinded by the opportunity to save someone I cared about that I wasn't present enough. I could not despite tremendous, tremendous effort be all I wanted to be for everyone. I fully admit that. I have admitted that for some time. I couldn't admit it during the pregnancy unfortunately because I was still blinded by grief and my need to have some control over changing an outcome.

Regarding the poetry... it was something I had seen on another friend's wall and had spoken with her about because it was relevant to her. She had asked for a copy of the pieces so I sent them to her. I believe Lillya has a better understanding and comfort level with the context after discussing it with me tonight. Re: "love you." This is something I say daily to my closest friends. When I hung up the phone with my best male friend tonight, I said to him "I love you." I say that to a mutual female friend of my wife's and mine as well and there is no discomfort on my wife's part. That is what I mean by it... no more or less. I am aware that it makes my wife uncomfortable and need to respect that. I have a hard time with it because I do feel a close friendship for this person and it's strange and awkward to stop saying it when it's been a habit. 

Here is what I struggle with. I have been a very positive influence in this person's life. She's still pretty screwed up, no question. But I have seen her make meaningful changes in her behavior. She is a good person with a good heart. She has made some terrible mistakes. She admires my wife and is mortified to realize that my wife is not comfortable with our friendship. She would like the chance to apologize and to establish a relationship with her as well. My wife is unwilling to hear it. Her feeling is that my friend should have known to come to her much earlier or have been aware of those boundaries instinctively. That is what I feel is unfair. I knew that this was becoming an issue for my wife relatively early on. However, my wife and I had a rule that she had established in which we were not to speak of our marital issues with anyone else. Because of that, I felt I could not afford my friend the opportunity to tell her that, "Hey this is becoming a problem. It would be great if you would reach out to Lillya so that we could be friends together rather than isolated." I did try to say that it would be great if they became friends too, but I couldn't get into why for fear of what I saw as a violation of my marriage and my wife's rule. And I realize that a normal person probably gets that on her own. But she's a 24 year old kid who never had a father and near as I can tell never had anything resembling a healthy relationship to build that instinct on. So I feel it's unfair to have expectations of people to do things without telling them they exist. I struggle with the fact that nothing was ever done maliciously to hurt anyone as in a sexual affair, and that had she known the problem it was causing, she'd have gone straight to my wife and tried to include her in our friendship. I believe that. She thinks very highly of my wife and of my marriage and does not want to hurt it. It was only when we stopped hanging out for a while that I explained to her some of what was going on with my wife's blessing that she understood and was incredibly remorseful. She believed that my wife considered her a friend and was ok with the time we spent together. We had sent money to her in Japan at my wife's insistence when she had budget issues and wasn't eating well. She had no inkling that anything was wrong with our marriage. That doesn't excuse her from culpability at all. I simply believe in allowing someone the opportunity to try and make things right or providing expectations before writing them off for not meeting them.

My sole intention throughout this whole process has been to be a good friend, a good husband, and a good father. I realize that I have failed in all three of those aspects. I take full responsibility for that. I want to be able to rebalance and refocus. I have since set new boundaries with this friend. I have said that I'm here when I can be, but that my wife's and my time is our time and won't be interrupted. I have made strong effort to be with my wife and to be much more present both physically and emotionally in her life. I have realized that I am not capable of saving this woman. That I can help here and there, but I can't be a savior. Only she can save herself. 

But it does feel wrong to me to have committed to a person to be a friend to them, and then turn my back and cut them off completely. It feels wrong because she is so sorry, because she does care about my wife and about me and my son. It feels wrong because I know that had I been able to give that push to her to reach out to my wife early on we probably never get to this point. I believe very strongly in loyalty, keeping my word, and forgiveness. Those strong principles are what made me attractive to Lillya in the first place. Had my friendship been mutual between my wife, my friend and I, this is a very different outcome I think. I don't think my wife would disagree. It doesn't cause the pain, and perhaps lessens the burden I put on myself on my misguided mission to save this woman. 

I would like the opportunity to have a healthy friendship among us all. I would like the opportunity for dialog between them and understanding of boundaries. I feel horrible for what I put my wife through. I want to make it right. I want to be a good husband. I just know that I also will feel horrible for going back on my word and cutting off a friend.


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

This is Lillya again. Just so everyone knows, I asked my husband to read this thread and comment if he wanted to. I thought ubercoolpanda's suggestion was a good one. I'd love to know what you all think about what he said.


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## JustCan'tDeal (Feb 24, 2012)

Wow! I could have written this myself! You know this is wrong and you know he needs to cut ALL contact FOREVER! Period. It is the only way to save the marriage. Trust me, I have been there. My husband fought me sooooo hard to drop all contact that I finally grew a pair and stood up for myself and said its me or her! I will not be in a marriage with three ppl. Does not matter what his reasons are for keeping contact because in the end they are all BS! He was sad for a while that he lost his "friend" but when he finally came out of the fog it hit him pretty hard as to what he had actually done. Over a year later we are doing well and have set some pretty strict boundaries. I hope your husband comes around soon, good luck. It will be the hardest thing you either make it through together or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustCan'tDeal (Feb 24, 2012)

Oh, and to the husband...it is not your job to fix this girl. Especially at the expense of your wife and child...think about that please.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LisaRC (May 21, 2013)

Hi Lillya's husband -

I am new here. Not a wayward or betrayed spouse, and no history of EAs or PAs. Married 20 years. I don't think I am bringing any "baggage" to the table when I read your response.

Here goes: Despite having admitted having an unhealthy relationship with this 24 year old woman in the past, it sounds like you still are desperate to keep the friendship going and really, really, really hope that your wife will get on board. You want a "do over" so that all three of you can be friends and grow old together.

What you are asking for is completely unreasonable. You have hurt your wife and your marriage tremendously. You have placed this friendship in front of the well-being of your marriage. You need counseling to understand why you've done this so that you will not repeat your mistakes with the next needy person who comes along.

Also, your reason for not fixing things earlier is complete bull. You said that your wife didn't want you talking about your marriage problems with others. Well, the fix did not involve talking or mentioning your wife. The fix was for you to CHANGE YOUR ACTIONS and distance yourself from this person. 

Sorry, but you know the right thing to do. You have let your wife down, and you need to fix that immediately. No more meetings for a few beers with your friend. No more skype conversations. Nothing other than casual hellos if you run into one another. I know your mind is shouting "I can't do that!" The fact that you are resisting so much shows how inappropriate this relationship is. Give up being this girl's white knight.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

Op's H your priorities should be your wife and child. You are creating problems in your home environment because the effort energy and attention that should have been spent on your family has been given to another woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Lillya's husband,

This is from one "White knight" to another. Dismount your horse and put down your sword. You have have more pressing needs at home.

I know how it is. I've been there. We want to help all, men and women. We tell ourselves that just because that someone that needs our help is a woman, it's no different. We try to help all.

Well it is different. Nothing has a pull on you, makes you spring into action, more than a damsel in distress.

You tell yourself that you are not doing it for love, or romance. That you have enough good will for all. Maybe, but you have the love of you life who needs you the most.

She's locked in the tower. Watching from the window as you ride by, time and time again. Waiting, wondering, when she'll finally hear your footsteps coming up those stairs.

You want to save your friend.

You need to save your wife.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Lillya's husband,

This girl (who is actually a woman --- not some helpless little girl) is not your responsibility. Your wife and child are. So you are going to have to choose: your friend or your wife. You aren't going to be able to keep both.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Lillya's husband, thanks for posting. Please read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

I hope reading threads in this forum will help you understand the seriousness of your situation. By building an intimate relationship with her you have betrayed your wife. You need to go No Contact with the third party. 

It is unreasonable to ask/expect your wife to be friends with your (emotional) affair partner. You are still in the land of make believe. This woman has become the third person in your marriage- intentionally or not it really doesn't matter, the damage is the same. You have shared a part of yourself with her that should have been reserved for Lilllya.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

To the husband:

All the things you are doing for this person you should be doing for your own child. As a father it is your responsibility to give your child the best possible life, lead them through adversity and basically do all the things you are trying to accomplish with an adult woman.

You are taking your energy away from your own child and your wife. You are risking a horrible life for your child who could very well be raised in a broken home. You are gravely harming your wife who you pledged before friends and possibly God to put ahead of all others.

You are not being a good person. You are being a bad and selfish person. There is nothing right about what you are doing. You don't owe friends in any way remotely close to what you owe those you pledged your life to and the life you created.

You are addicted to a drug. You have to go cold turkey. You have to completely cut this person out of your life and suffer for a period of time to get over your addiction. You need to get a job where you can prevent contact with her.

This course of action is best for You, Your Wife, Your Child and YOUR FRIEND.... No one gains from this friendship.

And, you do really need therapy, since your sense of right and wrong is gravely warped.


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## Calibre12 (Nov 27, 2012)

Please read the Welcome Newbie thread by AlmostRecovered. It's a sanity saver. First of all if he wants to vest interest in helping potential suicide victims, he needs to volunteer for a suicide prevention program or hotline. We human being don't just single out ONE 24 year old to help prevent her suicide. If anyone wants to really commit suicide they succeed on the first try. The other attempts are cries for attention and a need for THERAPY from a trained professional. He can take off his CAPTAIN SAVE A HO cape and put on his SAVE MY MARRIAGE, FAMILY & SPECIAL NEEDS CHILD cape, because his special needs child is more important than playing daddy to a grown ass borderline, histrionic psycho. He has avoidance/escapism/boundary issues and needs to deal with them STAT. Show him my post.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, the only thing you CAN do at this point is to say her or me. It really is. Be ready to send him packing. He is now a drug addict and you can't 'nice' him out of it. You have the RIGHT and the OBLIGATION to your marriage and family to stand firm on this, ok?


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

to the Husband

Thanks for posting. It's exactly what I thought. Delusions of grandeur. You are not a priest. You are not a psychologist. You are not a random white knight. 

You are supposed to be a husband. A friend to your wife. A father to your child. An asset to your community. You help all communities when you are a pillar at home. You help destroy same when you cause disintegration of your family. And that's what you are doing. 

Yes help this girl. Help her by directing her to resources. YOU ARE NOT one of those. Especially if your wife objects - and she does.

Suppose you wife wanted to "adopt" a 24 y/o recently discharged marine b/c he saw lots of trauma in the war. Would you accept that? How far would you allow it to go? Hours on skype? Special trips together? How about a room in your home? 

See - it can get out of hand.


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## Dodge (May 9, 2013)

Every second, minute or hour spent on this young woman is time taken away from your wife and child, time they can't get back.
In your quest to "save" this young woman, you are destroying the very life of the woman you took vows with. You owe this adult young woman nothing. You seem to have an extreme case of KISA.
Let her find her own knight.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

The fact you still pretend it's possible to retain this OW in your life after all the damage you have done in such a vulnerable times (remember, you called it obsession) speaks volumes on how completely removed from reality you are, how wrong your priorities have become.
She should suck it up? You don't want to give up your fix, no matter the cost don't you. It must feel so good...
You can't have both.
This mindset in which you can still have it all at the same time even when it's obviously incompatible is so flawed. The ultimate cake eating. Wake up, replace the train of thoughs, the ship already sailed. It's not time to barfain so you can keep ruling the three ring circus but to repair the damage already done, to make amends. Any further interaction with this particulatr woman is another twist in of the knife. You destroyed any potential relationhip with her forever. Get a grip on the damage you are causing.
That OW is cluess means nothing, what you never had romantic feelings for her means nothing, that you tried to compensate your cake eating being a better husband in other areas means nothing. It's pure delusion. And even more delusional trying to get your wife on board with it so you don't have to give up this insane need to be a rescuer.
Give up the crack pipe. Make that switch already.
Renounce, give up on OW, on your KISA tendencies. Pay attention: she's already wounded, your family is compromised!! The love your wife have for you is slowly fading away. It won't last forever if you keep testing it. 
Get your priorities straight.

If you are so deep into this make you own research, test other sources, seek counseling... get a reality check.


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## Aunt Ava (Jan 24, 2013)

Oh Acabado. So very well said. This is for you:

:allhail:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lillya5512 said:


> I would like the opportunity to have a healthy friendship among us all.


You blew that chance. Sorry.

Now you have no right to expect it or even ask it. That's your consequence for putting YOUR needs (yes, yours) ahead of your wife's. Now you no longer get to keep this 'friend' in your life if you want to keep your wife.

Which will you choose?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And seriously? You tell your guy friends "I love you?" Every time you see them?


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> And seriously? You tell your guy friends "I love you?" Every time you see them?


Turnera raises a good question here.

I have a few very close guy friends. Once in a blue moon, maybe, if we were talking about something deeply spiritual and profound, I might, maybe, possibly say "I love you man". Probably quickly followed by some apeish male man hug or swilling of beer. 

I would really wonder about my friends if one of them told me the loved me every time we said goodbye. To test your own honesty on this, have your wife call your 2 closest guy friends and ask, "Has Hubby ever told you that he loves you?"

Do it right now. Don't call them 1st to warn them it's coming. Right now. Let us know how that goes.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Acoa said:


> ...To test your own honesty on this, have your wife call your 2 closest guy friends and ask, "Has Hubby ever told you that he loves you?"
> 
> Do it right now. Don't call them 1st to warn them it's coming. Right now. Let us know how that goes.


Of course he won't do it! He has poor lilly so confused and heartsick he thought we'd swallow this load of you-know-what. We're not as gullible as that 24yo either.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

To Lillya's husband: 

*PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR A$$. *

You said THIS:

"I would like the opportunity to have a healthy friendship among us all. I would like the opportunity for dialog between them and understanding of boundaries. I feel horrible for what I put my wife through. I want to make it right. I want to be a good husband. I just know that I also will feel horrible for going back on my word and cutting off a friend."

Are you REALLY THIS FREAKING DENSE??? This isnt going to happen! You are more committed to this random woman than you are your wife who you made VOWS to, its sick! Your wife wants her OUT OF YOUR LIFE. That means NO CONTACT. No calls, no texts, no emails, letters or smoke signals! Time for you to decide who is most important in your life! (besides yourself!0

LILLYA...ULTIMATUM TIME!


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

lillya5512 said:


> All -
> 
> 
> 
> ...


OP's Husband,
Did you really read your wife's first post? Do you not see how much you have hurt her and your relationship. Yes, it is good to help others, but ones own wife and family must come first. She's practically begging for you to cut it off with the 24 year old woman, and yet you can't. Why is that? I have a hard time believing it's principals. Please listen with an open mind to what posters are saying here. We only wish the both of you the best.


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## firefly789 (Apr 9, 2013)

lillya5512 said:


> So I did, *wrongly*, make it my *sole mission* to show this person that she had value, that life was worth living. I believe that I was a real help at times. And at times I was *overbearing*. Frankly, it caused some problems in the friendship as well as my marriage. *I wanted her to come to me with problems and made myself WAY too available to any need... all in some misguided mission to solve all her problems. I put pressure on her even to come to me with her issues which caused some problems for our friendship*. I am aware that this was *wrong* and I know where it came from......
> 
> 
> And I realize that a normal person probably gets that on her own. But she's a 24 year old kid who never had a father and near as I can tell never had anything resembling a healthy relationship to build that instinct on. *So I feel it's unfair to have expectations of people to do things without telling them they exist*. I struggle with the fact that nothing was ever done maliciously to hurt anyone as in a sexual affair, and that had she known the problem it was causing, she'd have gone straight to my wife and tried to include her in our friendship. I believe that. She thinks very highly of my wife and of my marriage and does not want to hurt it. It was only when we stopped hanging out for a while that I explained to her some of what was going on with my wife's blessing that she understood and was incredibly remorseful. She believed that my wife considered her a friend and was ok with the time we spent together. We had sent money to her in Japan at my wife's insistence when she had budget issues and wasn't eating well. She had no inkling that anything was wrong with our marriage. That doesn't excuse her from culpability at all. I simply believe in allowing someone the opportunity to try and make things right or providing expectations before writing them off for not meeting them.
> ...


What kind of commitment have you made to this woman? You took a vow with your wife. She deserves your loyalty and keeping your word first.

I think it is too late for this to be a healthy friendship. You wanted her to come to you with all her problems. You even pressured her. Does that sound healthy for this young woman? That is the problem with Knights in Shining Armour. Sometimes it is all about how helping others makes themselves feel good. I really think you should let this woman find other healthy friendships and seek out therapy, rather than trying to entangle her with your wife, too. 

I also think you should seek counseling to deal with your grief from your father's untimely death. I am so sorry for you. I was so close to my mother. I lost her 6 years ago and I still miss her every day. But, trying to fix this woman is not really helping you deal with that underlying issue of your grief and has only led you to cross boundaries that you knew about (even if 24 year old woman didn't) and caused problems in your marriage.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

To the husband:

Just look at how much you have hurt your wife!

And you continue to hurt her. You refuse to stop hurting her.

If you lose your marriage, you have no one to blame but yourself.

To lillya:

Please take the advice of the other posters and get the book 'Not Just Friends' by Shirley Glass. Read it & if your husband wants to make a real effort at honoring you as his wife, then he will read it, too.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

My only thought that could be helpful to husband is that if past guilt is disabling your ability to say "no"...and is having a collateral effect on your family...then that means you have lost control of this. If you can't say no to this...what else won't you be able to say no to? People who help their own issues by helping others are a danger to the others and themselves...because there isn't a boundary established..and then emotions get involved...in the counseling profession, they call it cross-transference. And by trade, if a counselor recognizes that feelings are developing, then they are supposed to release the patient to another professional to treat. This is a scenario with ill-defined boundaries...and is already having negative consequences.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

You're absolutely right. This is an emotional affair. You have every right to tell him that his contact with her ends now, or you are gone. He must read Not Just Friends asap.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

lillya5512 said:


> This is Lillya's husband. I will tell my side of the story as well as I can. I welcome your input. I am deeply torn with this. I love my wife. I love her to death. I think she is incredible. I want very much to remain her husband. I want very much to remain a father to my incredible child.


Best way to start demonstrating that is to cut this "friend" out of your life completely and immediately. Seriously. I've been where you are, defending an emotional affair as a friendship. Even if you can't see it as an emotional affair right now, IT IS ONE. You're also dismissing the distress of your wife in favor of this "friend", which is very wrong and destructive (I've also been there, too). Listen to your wife. If something distresses her, LISTEN. ACT. Respond to her distress! She is your #1. There is no splitting your priorities. You're giving way too much to this girl in Japan, and at this point, it's too late for it to be a real friendship instead of an EA. Do the right thing. Shut it down. It's not your job to save that girl, nor can you really save anyone anyway. All that stuff you're trying to get her to do, that level should only be available to your wife.

I also have trouble believing the OW really thought everyone could be happy "friends" all around. Even if she said that. There is also no way a healthy friendship can occur with the three of you now (nor with any other combination involving you three).

I'm sorry to hear about your father.



lillya5512 said:


> I just know that I also will feel horrible for going back on my word and cutting off a friend.


Don't feel horrible for returning to your wife what you promised her in the first place. Don't feel bad for saving your marriage. Don't feel bad for finally responding to your wife's distress. The girl is an affair partner, not a friend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lillya5512 (May 20, 2013)

Hi everyone - it's Lillya again. I stepped away from the forum for a few days to give everyone a chance to comment on my husband's post without my interference. I am so, so thankful for your overwhelming support. Also, for the first time since this has started, after reading your posts and talking to a few other people and to me, I think my husband understands for the first time exactly what I've been feeling and the necessity of cutting his ties with this girl. I can't tell you how thankful I am for that. We are both going to go to therapy - independently and also as a couple - as soon as we make our move in July. In the meantime, we are going to get the book so many of you have mentioned and try to keep the lines of communication open between us. I do believe that both of us are committed to this marriage and will do whatever we need to do to make it a strong and healthy one again. 

I'll keep you posted down the line on our progress. Thank you again for all of your support!


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Good for you!!!!

Read the book. Marriage is not a contest of wills. It's the sharing of a life. Life is too short as it is - marriages can and do have compromises but they are agreed to by both. Always. 

Anyway glad that your husband has come around. He should be ashamed. But you seem a forgiving person and loving wife. He should treasure your big heart and help to mend it.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

This could be tougher than he thinks is going to be, going NC with this women.

Keep an eye out for the signs.

Best of luck and I'll look hopefully forward to updates on your progress.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Good luck.

Make sure he talks to the counselor about this:


> I am deeply torn with this.


My wife and kids come before anyone else. He shouldn't be conflicted, torn or confused with a new person versus his family. This is something he needs to discuss and if possible get fixed.


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## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

I am very late to this thread but I have some thoughts, mostly directed at Lillya's husband.

I totally agree with everything that the posters have said on here about your betrayal of Lillya. Your underlying motivation to provide support to the young lady is related to your father's death. I am sorry about your loss, but you need to deal with his death appropriately, not in the manner you have chosen.

Second, I want to share with you a true story that happened many years ago to me. I worked with a married guy, a financial planner, whose high school friend had been brutally raped. He provided support to her for several years as she recounted her story to him, over and over. She was afraid to go to the police because the rapists (yes there were two) told her they would find her again. He confided in me about not only the strain it had on him, but also his marriage. His wife was distressed about the time he spent talking to his friend. My role in all of this was more of "mom" than anything else.

Finally, one day I asked him a simple question. "Mike, have you ever performed a heart transplant?" He looked at me strangely and said "no". "Why?" I said. "Because I don't know how." Then I said, "Mike, have you ever built a house, like with the hammer and nails in your own hand?" Now he was getting annoyed. He said "no". "Why?"....."Because I don't know how." Then I said, "What on earth makes you think you can counsel a rape victim?" "Have you not figured out by now that being a friend isn't enough?" 

Lillya's H - Unless you know what you are doing, you have no business taking on this woman's mental health issues. You are attempting to do way more than what "a friend" can do. Are you prepared to deal with the consequences if your efforts fail? I can imagine mental health professionals deal with this all the time and have the ability to move past that. They have support systems that help them deal with the real life human consequences of their profession. Do you have that strength within you? Imagine if this young lady takes a turn for the worse? What carnage are you prepared to endure in your own psyche, your own marriage because of it? You are providing a crutch to this young woman and it very well could be preventing her from finding the real help she needs. You are doing her no favors.

H - Find the help you need to get over your dad's death. You have a beautiful wife who will walk this walk with you. You have a child who will give you hope for the future, even with the pain you have endured.

As for Mike, he pulled back and his friend found support in the right places. She found out she wasn't alone. For the first time in two years, she was able to walk out of her apartment without fear. As for Mike's marriage....it was too little too late.


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