# Question: Who takes care of who's needs?



## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Ladies I need your opinion. I think ladies will have a better way to relate to this topic but guys you are welcome to chime in to. 

Here is the issue....I don’t understand and I am confused. When does it become OK for me to take care of my needs and my H to take care of his needs. (we do have sex from time to time, maybe once every two weeks so don't think we never do it) I am talking about sex here. My needs got met and so did his last weekend, yep we had sex. But I am good for the next few weeks. The thoughts of a repeat of last weekend is just not something I am even game for this coming weekend. I know my H's needs are different then mine but why do I have to take care of HIS need. I take care of my needs and if they do not involve him that is fine with me. But he wants his needs to involve me. 
When I told him I just had no desire to do it again he was disappointed. He wanted to know “what about what he needed?” I told him “what about what I needed” (or didn't need) his answer was “But don’t you like to see me happy” I told him yes, but is it my job to make you happy week after week even though I am not interested. I told him I didn't want it to be a weekly put out session. A time where I meet his needs every week because I am his wife and that is my job. His response was “I didn't say that.” I told him that was how it felt. He asked me is 4 times a month expecting to much from my wife. 
I told him how about he vacuum the car every week. Even though I was the one who missed it up, and it is me who needs to have it cleaned I would like him to clean it every week. He wants me to be happy right. I want him to do this for me. It’s only 4 times a month. His response was “Well I am praying God will take the desire to have sex away from me.” I told him that it is not that I never want to do it, I am just content with the frequency and I got my fix and I am good and he got his fix to and I am sorry that he needs his fix again. 

I don’t understand. Am I supposed to take care of me and do what is right for me or am I supposed to be a good wife and put out for him. He asked me what if not sex but you “did” for me, how about that? (hand job) * I have issues w/ hj's because of past abuse from someone else and he knows this.* I told him that is no different than sex. It is me taking care of your needs. He again said well you don’t have to do it all the time. I tried to explain and told him if I didn't feel like sex and I did that instead this week, and I didn't feel like sex next week and knew that your needs had to be met by me the next week to, then how is that any different. I am having to take care of your needs because I am your wife. Then he stopped talking and that was the end of the conversation. 

I tried several times to stand up for myself, put my needs first, and make my feelings known. *this is what we have been working on in marriage T* It was not successful or at least id didn't feel successful.(Or was it, he stopped talking) I do not understand where the happy medium is of who takes care of who’s needs. I am the wife, but not the sex slave. I have needs I can take care of without him. When it comes to sex I can take it or leave it. (Usually leave it) Am I supposed to meet his needs all the time? I just don’t know. I know I need to meet them some of the time or he may stray. But adding pressure by saying “well it is only 4 times a month” is not helpful. I want to be reasonable, I really do. But I need to honor what I believe and feel as well. That is something I have never done. I have always let people take advantage of me and use me for their own personal usage. That is what this feels like. Weather I am being used for sex or some other type of sexual gratification it is still not what I want and it is still someone using me for that, even though it is the person I am married to this time. 


What do I do?


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

Why don't you let him take care of your needs? He is reaching out to you and you are rejecting him. You sound as though you are taking all your baggage out on him. I'm not trying to be mean but there is taking care of yourself and then being selfish. This man obviously loves you and wants to be intimate with you. When you do have sex do you enjoy it or are you just there to do your duty? Why do you feel like it's your "job" to make him happy? Don't you "want" to make him happy? You sound very angry and bitter...towards him?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I'm surprised he doesn't just vacuum the car, if that is the price for weekly sex. 

Does he do anything for you that you are not presently doing for yourself, like providing for you?

If you share everything 50/50, including earning money, and you don't want sex more than every two weeks, he is going to have to cough up something to even things up. Unless you want to just give in because you are scared of losing him.

Nobody can really answer your question, Big Mama. You have to know your own limits, and accept the consequences to your own actions, or lack of them.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Great wife


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hurts to read this Big Mama. It brought tears to my eyes when you wrote that he wished that God would take away his need. My God. I have never had a sexual need like that. I don't know what it feels like but I know what it is to need other things so much that it hurts and you wished the need would go away. What do you think your husband meant when he said what he wished? 

I would not want anyone I loved to feel resentment or anger at the prospect of meeting a need of mine that was so relentless that i could not make it go away myself. 

I would pray like your husband for merciful relief or that some kind soul hear me and feed me out of love. Not because my need is superior or more important but just because I'm in such a bad way. 

Hard to understand the human race - people rescue stray animals who never did anything for them except invoke their pity. But when it comes to sharing with the people we love, we tally things up down to apportioning the coriander seeds. 

What do you feel your husband is not giving you that you need? It must be a substantial need that he is not meeting if you can hear him beg God for release and come here to ask what you should do. 

Talk to you husband about why you feel such a large deficit in your heart that you cannot give him over and above what you already are giving.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Are you still in therapy? It seems that you are struggling with how to find a balance. I don't think that your current line of thinking is going to go well. Why? Because your husband does not just want sex to get off physically, it's a way to express emotional intimacy. If your goal is to push him right out the door, this will work really well.

Have you read the book "His Needs, Her Needs"?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Great wife


Keep in mind that he has apparently not been all that good a husband either.


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

All I can say is don't be surprised when he cheats on you. If he ever finds out that other couples actually make love, or should I say have sex in your case, multiple times a week, you may in trouble. Maybe you should just let him go and buy a cat, they don't need much of anything and then all your weekends would be free.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I wouldn't vacuum a car for sex. Seems too undignified. I'd rather rely on Spiritual mercy.


:iagree:


I think that the OP is having trouble with this because her husband is not meeting her emotional needs. Plus he has Asperger so maybe he has trouble doing the things that build a relationship and real emotional intimacy.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

So you don't want to have sex with him because you don't want to.

What would you say if he told you that he's decided to not support you because he just does not feel like it.. after all he should tend to his own needs first. Why should he spend his day working just to support you. Shoot he could be having a great time if he stopped supporting your desire to SAHM, have horses, etc.

I don't think you understand how much he does do for you. You dismiss his support as though it means nothing.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Men need sex to feel love.

Women need love to have sex.

That's the majority, not the "all". But yea...it's a conundrum if I ever heard one.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Okay, just looked at your profile. You are a SAHM, and a homeschooler. Better get going meeting your husband's sexual needs. Your life could change significantly if he left you (I assume he is providing for you). 

How about thinking about the ways you are grateful to him, and letting those blessings soften your heart?


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## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

...As a husband who isnt getting enough let me warn you of a few things. 

He will slowly shut down. He will become depressed. He will resent you and become grouchy. Porn might become an issue if you are lucky or if not so lucky he might start to find other woman attractive.

Either way your marriage is in pre crisis. How two deal with this will define the rest of your time together. 

I would happily trade chores for sex. More chores for oral. .....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

You already answered your own question. His is a need, yours is a "don't need." Not the same. Men need to feel close to their wives, it's why we dedicate our lives to women and give up our "don't need" other women anymore.

Stop being selfish and give the man the intimacy he is dying for. And yes, you are being extremely selfish. Considering not needing something as a "need" is flat out wrong.


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't know where to start. I could not stay married to a woman who treated her husband like this. What he should do is stop "praying" for his sex drive to go away and start shopping for a divorce attorney. Either get over yourself and have sex with your husband or divorce him before you hate each other so much your kids begin to suffer. 

What advice were you looking for? You post that your essentially that you refuse to accept the fact that your husband wants you involved in meeting his sexual needs, and you find that unacceptable. It's selfish and cold. Your marriage is doomed, and yes, it's likely your fault.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

What was sex like before you got married?


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Wow. Lots of good responces from both sides of the fence. I will respond once my battery charges. Thank you all.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Hurts to read this Big Mama. It brought tears to my eyes when you wrote that he wished that God would take away his need. My God. I have never had a sexual need like that. I don't know what it feels like but I know what it is to need other things so much that it hurts and you wished the need would go away. What do you think your husband meant when he said what he wished?
> 
> I would not want anyone I loved to feel resentment or anger at the prospect of meeting a need of mine that was so relentless that i could not make it go away myself.
> 
> ...


Hummmm, I had not thought of it that way. He has a need so great he is praying to god to relieve him from it, I can relieve him from it but do to circumstances I don't. That makes me want to cry. Doesn't hardly sound fair now does it. That does make me feel badly. Thank you for adding a different view point on that. 

What is my H not giving me that I need was one of your questions. I need to be treated like a human. I will explain in a min.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> Oh I don't know the background story. Is he a lousy husband. Has he hurt you or been indifferent except when he wants sex from you? That's different. If he is a good husbands and makes an effort to meet your needs with love and caring that's something else again.


Oh man, you guys have no idea the things I have dealt with in reguards to this man. I have said very little up until this point about him. I do not want to lead folks to think poorly of him. But with out knowing all the information it is hard to make an informed decision and answer questions to the best of your ability. 

This man has kept me home for 15+ years. Employment was not an option. (staying at home to raise children was only part of the excuse of why he liked me being home all the time) He has a jealous streak a mile wide. He has been verbally and emotionally abusive for many years. He went to work everyday but left me here to raise 3 kids on my own. He didn't give me money for there clothes, there lunches for school, to do things with them. He admits to using money to control the situation. His money is the one thing he can control and he does. The amount of money he gives me determines how often I can leave the house, who gets new clothes. With 3 kids it is tough to make left over grocery money stretch to clothe 3 kids. There is little to no grocery money left. 

The MC told me that what he does is spousal abuse. We have worked on these issues in MC and they have greatly lessened. But I fear him in a way. I am afraid to ask him for money, afraid to ask him to do anything for me, I have become very self sufficient or simply do with out because I don't want to be yelled at again or have his words cut me to the core. With MC he has improved considerably.

When asked why I stay with him, my answer is he is improving and I can see he wants what is best for our family. If he were not improving, or not trying that would be different. The MC agrees we still have a good ways to go yet. He was very abusive now he is still abusive on a minor scale. But abuse is not gauged on a scale of minor to major it is gauged on a scale of yes it happens or no it doesn't. We are working towards no it doesn't but at the moment that cannot be said. 

Sex meets his needs. The only time he says he loves me and I feel like he means it is when we are having sex. But then I feel used, it is easy to love someone when you are getting what you want from them. I would love to here you are so soft, or you are beautiful sometime other then in the bedroom.


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

Well it sounds as if you use the sex as he uses the money. Frankly it still sounds doomed. 

At what point will he have improved enough for long enough for you to have regular sex with him? If you can't answer that question then just save the trouble and file for divorce.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> I think that the OP is having trouble with this because her husband is not meeting her emotional needs. Plus he has Asperger so maybe he has trouble doing the things that build a relationship and real emotional intimacy.


True, my H has Aspergers he does have trouble thinking of other peoples needs. He is geared very much towards himself. From what I know of Aspergers it not uncommon for one to be extremely self centered and not have the ability to think of others and how they feel. I do think that is part of the issues. 

My H and I also separated for a month and he returned home in May only to go out of town again for 4 day a week and being home 3 nights. When he returned home his words to me were, When are you ready to let me get close to you. We were having marriage problems and he returned home and wanted to know when could we hop in the bed. When I was less then receptive he said well I have been gone for a month I will give you 7 days. that should be enough time. That is not how you get folks to warm up to you. He is currently gone 4 days a week and we have no relationship as far as relating at this point so having sex is really nt high on my list of things to do.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> So you don't want to have sex with him because you don't want to.
> 
> What would you say if he told you that he's decided to not support you because he just does not feel like it.. after all he should tend to his own needs first. Why should he spend his day working just to support you. Shoot he could be having a great time if he stopped supporting your desire to SAHM, have horses, etc.
> 
> I don't think you understand how much he does do for you. You dismiss his support as though it means nothing.


I don't like having sex. I have issues with touch. I am trying to get over some things and figure out how sex after rape. Which happened a long time ago, but I am just now working threw. it has been about a year since I told my H about the rapes and he didn't know that some of the very things he says and does put me right back in that frame of mind and did for over 15 years. It is still something I have to work threw each time we have sex. I am learning to stay present, I am learning to not panic. I have nightmares and flashbacks afterwards. I cry during sex, or after sex, it is hard for it to be an enjoyable experience. Again I am working on this in T. 

We have talked about how important it is that he wait on me because having sex to meet someone else needs is very similar to the being forced to have sex to me et someone elses needs during rape. He has seen first hand if he leaves me alone and lets me come to him we both enjoy the experience so much more. And he doesn't like to do it nearly as much when I am not into it. It only makes since to me that he would wait in order to have better sex. 

HJ's are equally difficult for me. Because my abuser used to take my hand and put it under his and force me to do for him. He would beg and plead and coerce me into do for him. So I really have a hard time doing for him.

As for the me staying at home and leading a lavish life style and spending my days with the horses, that is so not the reality. I stay at home and forfeit my fight to won or buy or do anything. I do have a horse. He is a mini horse. The horse I had before we got married died a few years ago. A friend gave me a mini horse and I was able to have him only if according to my husband, I never asked him to feed him, carry hay, fix fence, or have anything to do with the horse. HE wants nothing to do with the horse. And will in no way help. I accept that responsibility. So I do not lead some lavish life style of playing in the stables all day.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> If you share everything 50/50, including earning money, and you don't want sex more than every two weeks, he is going to have to cough up something to even things up. Unless you want to just give in because you are scared of losing him.



The moment OP requires things to "even out" as a condition for sex is the day Mr. Big Mama walks out I'm afraid. 

If sex becomes a transaction with a double entry (aw be quiet double entry is an accounting term you pervs) into a ledger is the day the marriage becomes a convenience. You start upping the ante and all of a sudden it takes replacing a leaking rear main seal in her car to get lucky.

It's a very slippery slope from there, Mama. Very slippery.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But isn't that how equal marriages work, john? 

That is how it looks to me, anyway. Tit for tat all the time. Constant power struggles.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

mace85 said:


> Well it sounds as if you use the sex as he uses the money. Frankly it still sounds doomed.



Pretty much. Two wrong behaviors are two wrong behaviors, it's not like algebra where they cancel each other out...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> But isn't that how equal marriages work, john?
> 
> 
> 
> That is how it looks to me, anyway. Tit for tat all the time. Constant power struggles.



If you do tit for tat you better make sure that your tit is always equal to his tat rofl...

In any power struggle, material needs and abilities to provide trump non material needs so at some point Mr. OP will put two and two together and that's all she wrote.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

T&T said:


> What was sex like before you got married?


Sex before we got married was just sex to keep him from leaving. I was under the impression that you had to have sex and frequently or the guy would stray. It was seldom out of really wanting to to have sex that we did have sex. He wanted to, I didn't. I did it anyway. I remember crying countless nights because I didn't want to have sex and I did anyway. I would go out on dates w/ him and be nauseous because I knew the night was gonna end in sex and I didn't want to do it. (just for further understanding, I had been raped repeatedly by a previous bf about 3 years prior to meeting my husband and dating him.)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It may not be fair, OP, but you are at financial risk. It might be easier just to start having regular sex with him.

But you are traumatized by it. That is a serious issue.

Could you share all of this with your husband? Just have a heart to heart with him? Ask him for his patience, while at the same time promising sex at least once a week?

What is your plan if he leaves, OP? How will you and the kids manage financially?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

By the way, thanks for sharing all this with us, OP. It is not often a LD comes on and explains her pov.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think that you need to get specialised counselling, alone, for rape victims OP. I don't think mc will help you at this stage.

If your husband has Aspergers, he's simply not capable of considering someone else's feelings on any meaningful level. 

That must be so hard for you...to not be able to go to your husband for emotional support...

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

When H and I started MC after a few sessions I found out that the T specializes in Trauma's. After about a year doing MC stuff I began meeting with the T alone alittle more. After meeting her alone and developing a trust with her I was able to tell her about the rapes and later about the CSA. She knew something was wrong but she didn't know exactly what. I saw her for quite while alone with out my H. My H saw her alone as well to get help with the affects of living with me. I know it has been no joy ride. People who abuse rape and assault others think they are hurting only one person. Little does that person know that they are hurting both the individual and there spouse. Both are robbed of a normal relationship. 

I am not sure that at this time due to the Aspergers that my H is capable of taking my feelings into consideration. He knows his needs, and he is working on getting past this stuff with me and trying to be understanding, but I feel a great amount of pressure to "Get Cured" when he is constantly asking me...."Today, do you feel like it is today" or "do you think it will be next month." It takes time, far more time then I ever realized. If I could just flip a sitch and be "Cured" as he says, then God knows I would.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> It may not be fair, OP, but you are at financial risk. It might be easier just to start having regular sex with him.
> 
> But you are traumatized by it. That is a serious issue.
> 
> ...


Regular sex sounds like an easy answer but it is indeed traumatizing. When it is followed by nightmares and flashbacks it is hard to create something that is enjoyable. When there are no "O"s and I cry during sex my H is not getting much out of it either. He feels worse then he did when we started but he has had his need fulfilled for the week. I think that is his main goal. To get his need met and have me participate in it. 

My main question is at what point does protecting me from further trauma become my responsibility and when does having sex to benefit my H become my objective. If something I did traumatizes my husband I don't think I would want him to participate in what traumatizes him for my own personal gain. I would nt be gaining much. I would hate my self actually. But he is only able to see entitlement.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

This is a lot more complex than your husband wanting more frequent sex. Personally, I would not have sex with him at all in your position. Sex is not the problem, his sexual satisfaction is certainly not important if he does not feed and put clothes on his own 3 children. He does not deserve to be sexually satiated when he is nit acting like a man. That's the best way to teach him what it feels like to be without. 

Next time he says he wishes God would take away his desire, tell him that his children feel the same way. Their hunger and nakedness makes them wish their father would love them enough to feed, cloth and provide a stable home environment. When he can figure out how to do that then he can talk to you about his sexual desire. 

He sounds like a monster. Where did you come up with the idea that his exit will leave you destitute? He owns only half of the assets and you the rest. He has to pay to support the 3 children. The law will mandate the amount they actually need not the miserly amount that he provides now. 

Get IC to help you form a sense of confidence and belief in yourself. Work on becoming independent financially and explore your legal position in asset separation. Get a handle on what he makes and where the money is going. You must get your own money. 

You are stuck because you believe your abuser. You are not the helpless girl you were yrs ago. You have laws and statues on your side and you have yourself. Change your thoughts and you change your life. 

When he gave you the 7 day deadline you should have thrown his azz back out. Think about what you want your life to be in 5 yrs, 10 yrs etc. think about what you are modeling for your children. If you never planned fir yourself and just let things happen, then the idea of making a future you control is foreign. 

Start first with seeking legal advice. If he limits the money, go to legal aid and women services. Places that help children and women who are abused. He should have been prosecuted for the cruelty of not clothing and feeding his children. 

He is lucky to still have a wife and children. If you reported him to child welfare and the authorities and D him you would have saved you and your children a great deal of heartache.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Having sex while dating for the sole purpose of keeping him from leaving was manipulative and just wrong. You both sound like bad selfish people.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Excellent post, Catherine.

OP, thanks again for giving us the other side of the LD/HD situation. So often we hear only one, and take sides. We do not get the whole picture.

Your husband is so selfish and immature. I hope you can become financially independent, so you can make decisions from a position of strength. 

And I am so sorry for what you have gone through. You are very brave to confront all that, and work through it. I hope your husband recognizes that, and gives you credit for it, someday.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

frusdil said:


> I think that you need to get specialised counselling, alone, for rape victims OP. I don't think mc will help you at this stage.
> 
> If your husband has Aspergers, he's simply not capable of considering someone else's feelings on any meaningful level.
> 
> That must be so hard for you...to not be able to go to your husband for emotional support...


He has Aspergers...there was a bait and switch in regards to sex.. you didn't tell him about being Raped.. he acts out abusively - some of this could be related to Aspergers (??) but also combined with his growing frustration that you can not stand to be touched.. so much of this could have just been avoided by being Honest in the beginning.. very sad.. But here you are, kids in the mix now.. 

Frusdil's advice here is what is needed.. there is just too much here for a marriage counselor.. these are both BIG obstacles ...with his diagnosis.. it would take a very strong woman to handle him ...and with what you have been through & how you still have flashbacks.. in regards to being raped and used by a former BF...you need inner healing within yourself..to even begin to meet his needs..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Mama,
Your husband is who he is. A lot of his behavior is driven by his Aspergers. It's very sad but it is what it is.

No one has to have sex just because they are married. Instead in marriage both parties should love each other enough to need/want to have sex with each other to bring themselves closer to the person they love.

This idea that some seem to have that you should just have sex with him regardless of how he treats you is nonsense. But if you do not want sex with him you also should not stay with him. From his point of view, you are depriving him of a strong need he has.. physical intimacy. I can tell you what it feels like to be rejected the way you reject him.. it's a form of serious emotional abuse. So in the end, you are both abusing each other.

You talk about what it was like when the two of you dated. For you, the sex part was horrible. Why you thought it was ok to have a relationship that was based on you giving sex when it made you sick is mind boggling. Your husband finds it hard to see your side of things. I think that you find it hard to see his side of things. 

Have you told him about the way you felt about sex when you dated?

Between your issues with CSA, rape and abuse and your husband's issues I just don't see how this will get much better.

I think that you would do much better if you got a divorce and just dealt with your personal issues about sex on your own. This way you would also not have to deal with him.

And he could look for a woman who wants to have sex with him and give him the intimacy that he needs.

As others have pointed out, you will not be destitute if you leave him. You will need to find a job. But I think that being free of the pressure for sex and the abuse should be well worth it.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> :iagree:
> 
> 
> I think that the OP is having trouble with this because her husband is not meeting her emotional needs. Plus he has Asperger so maybe he has trouble doing the things that build a relationship and real emotional intimacy.


That's not what she said here at all. She just has low desire and believes that her frequency is find and he just needs to live with that
So we should believe what she said, not invent theories that she never stated
About the only need she mentions is he vacuum the car which I took as a sarcastic need 

I conclude she is just low desire and lazy.
Or, if indeed she has unmet needs, then she is very bad communicator because she left call that out of post
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Having a low drive doesn't mean lazy.

Having things wrong in the psyche about sex and feeling resentment towards your mate can dry a person up quicker than anything.

Ive realized that the low drive people are usually just not happy with the person they are with or the person whom they are. Mix that with someone who does not GET IT and it's a mess. If the wife is hurting and the husband is just wanting to use her body for sex, wtf? Because at that point, knowing your wife has huge psychological issues with sex and you keep pushing it, you are saying you don't give a sh1t about her at all. Why would ANY ONE want to open their body and share it with someone like that?? Gross.

I thought I was broken...I thought I was going through the change. Sex was horrible. infrequent. My body never responded. I was once HD. Now I was tryng to avoid it.

Turns out it is my resentment about shet in my marriage....that is not unwarranted. My body works just fine, as I've come to realize. Just not with him.

"Lazy" isn't what it is. But there is definite work to be done within herself if she wants things to get better. MC won't help. True personal therapy to deal with the rape will/can do wonders. I had therapy for a year for issues....it helped a TON.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

jld said:


> Excellent post, Catherine.
> 
> OP, thanks again for giving us the other side of the LD/HD situation. So often we hear only one, and take sides. We do not get the whole picture.
> 
> ...




Thank you. That brought tears to my eyes. I just so badly want to be heard and understood. I am not a bad person, I am not a wife trying to be cruel by with holding sex. I a, a wife trying to get over some serious sh it and with a husband who doesn't get the big picture. 

Thank you again that is all I can say


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

(((((Big Mama)))))


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

tommyr said:


> That's not what she said here at all. She just has low desire and believes that her frequency is find and he just needs to live with that
> So we should believe what she said, not invent theories that she never stated
> About the only need she mentions is he vacuum the car which I took as a sarcastic need
> 
> ...



low drive doesn't = lazy for starters. 

You are correct in say "It is not that I don't want to have sex, I can and do from time to time." We just happened to have good sex last weekend and I am good for a bit. It is like eating a candy bar and it being good and then some one trying to make you want another one the next day, just because they want another candy bar and expecting you to love it just as much. It is much more likable when you want it. And just because someone else wants one doesn't mean that you have to want one to and you should eat one just because someone else wants you to. 

Correct I was being sarcastic about the car. I was trying to think of an example of something my H doesn't like to do and that only befits me and trying to get him to think about how much he would like to do that weekly. That is a need of mine (mainly because he wants it clean each week before Sunday, so it has become a need) I like to have CD's and water and change, and balls in the car for the kids. But at his request I need to have it clean in time for Sunday. I'm not sure if he got the symbolism or not, but he did get irritated enough to stop talking to me, which in my book is as close as I am gonna get to getting my point across.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Having sex while dating for the sole purpose of keeping him from leaving was manipulative and just wrong. You both sound like bad selfish people.


I disagree, but thank you for taking the time to respond. That is what is so great about a site like this everyone is entitled to there opinion right or not.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> It's your responsibility to protect yourself and your children. When he try's to starve you and them, act resolutely. He has had no negative consequences for his abuse. Of course he learns nothing.
> 
> Have you ever stood up for yourself? Start now. Not just sex, everything. Money, respect, love. You don't owe anyone sex. You can share sex with a person that is relating you like a human with feelings and is acting responsibly. You should nit have sex under coercion or with a person who denigrates you.
> 
> ...


Have I ever stood up for my self? NO I HAVE NOT. I have lived the life of a doormat. I have been controlled and manipulated and abused and god only knows why someone who is abused stays. I am here and I don't get it myself. 

After separating from my H for a month I learned I am not such a bad person and freedom is nice. Being able to go to a restaurant and order what you like is nice, being able to stay outside and catch fire flies and leave dirty dishes in the sink is fun. The kids loved that, having mom and playing with her was so much more then important then dirty dishes out of the dishwasher. Those kids are far more important then the need to have the dishes put away because someone else says I have to.

Since our time apart I have been learning how to not back down. How to say what I need to say and defend myself and if he doesn't like it then he can leave. DO NOT BACK DOWN. It is a hard lesson for a doormat to learn. It hurts, it feels bad, and awkward. I don't like it but I am learning it is better then the opposite or that. 

Why do I stay, for starters I believe marriage is forever. That is a huge debate in it's self that I rather not get into. We have been married 20 years (last week) we have our house paid off, we just built a new house, we put in a pond. Our life is perfect, everything thing we ever worked for has come to us finally and I'm not sure that having all this is worth throwing away. I just don't know. 

Then the usual, the stigma, the lack of money, the having to deal with thing alone. The kids father not being part of there lives or at least him only seeing them on weekends.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Your life is not perfect or you wouldn't be here.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> He has Aspergers...there was a bait and switch in regards to sex.. you didn't tell him about being Raped.. he acts out abusively - some of this could be related to Aspergers (??) but also combined with his growing frustration that you can not stand to be touched.. so much of this could have just been avoided by being Honest in the beginning.. very sad.. But here you are, kids in the mix now..
> 
> Frusdil's advice here is what is needed.. there is just too much here for a marriage counselor.. these are both BIG obstacles ...with his diagnosis.. it would take a very strong woman to handle him ...and with what you have been through & how you still have flashbacks.. in regards to being raped and used by a former BF...you need inner healing within yourself..to even begin to meet his needs..


I don't think it was bait and switch. I think it was him doing the same thing my abuser did. Coercion. I remember my soon to be H begging and pleading for me to do it, or making big plans and spending lots of money in order that I felt wined and dined before we did it. I didn't feel wined and dined I felt like a cheep *****. That was advance payment for services rendered. That is what the guy who raped me did, it was brain washing. IT was easier to just give in then to argue and beg him to stop. If sex was all he wanted then damn here you you go, hope you are happy now. I learned that worked with both the rapist and my soon to be H. I found out later in life that was not the way to deal with things. That is how I dealt with everything.

I didn't tell my H all the facts, I told him one time that this guy made me give him a bj and I didn't want to and it was the equivalent of rape and if I didn't seem to excited about that part of things that is why. So I did tell my H on like the 3rd date. 

I didn't tell him him the whole story eventually. But who wants to tell there mate you are used goods. That guarantees he will run. I had no idea that the rapes had the affect on me it did. I was pretty good at ignoring the signs. 

Shortly after we were married he began to try to coerce me several times a week to give in sexually and for the most part I did. It was simply easier. That I had already learned. I hated it. I cant begin to tell you how much time I spent dissociated. Finally I told my H what happened 18 years after the fact and I didn't minimize it. It made my H throw up it was so graphic and horrible. For days after I told him he would look at me and cry. It was not a easy thing to tell him and it was not easy to watch his pain for me either. The only reason I was able to tell him was because threw marriage T my H begin to see he was handling things wrong and started to be nice. And threw being nice I started to feel safe and with the feeling safe, my brain was able to let the pain and hell and torment out. So after 18 years he learned why I did the things I did.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I am glad you were able to share all that with him. I suggest to keep sharing your heart with him.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You are not used goods.

Stop that. Not even close to used goods.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> low drive doesn't = lazy for starters.


Agreed 100% these are not equivalent, nor did my post suggest otherwise.



Big Mama said:


> It is like eating a candy bar and it being good and then some one trying to make you want another one the next day, just because they want another candy bar and expecting you to love it just as much. It is much more likable when you want it. And just because someone else wants one doesn't mean that you have to want one to and you should eat one just because someone else wants you to.


*Low desire* means you just don't think about candy bars.. the idea never enters your head.

*Lazy* means that you are unwilling to even indulge your husband's candy bar habit.

Sexually speaking, it sounds like you are both. And that's an unfortunate combination that I predict will ultimately doom the marriage.

PS, if (like a previous poster asserted) your sexual laziness is caused by YOUR unmet needs, then you need to* speak up* and be specific and direct about the exact nature of your needs. This communication is how mature relationships survive.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> one time that this guy made me give him a bj and I didn't want to and it was the equivalent of rape


I am sincerely sorry you are a sexual abuse victim. I hope that justice has been served to the offender. Please get the help that you need in this area.

But please do NOT take this out on your husband, lest you also become an abuser of sorts.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

tommyr said:


> That's not what she said here at all. She just has low desire and believes that her frequency is find and he just needs to live with that
> So we should believe what she said, not invent theories that she never stated
> About the only need she mentions is he vacuum the car which I took as a sarcastic need
> 
> ...


I'm sorry isn't that what the last paragraph says: I conclude she is just low desire and lazy. 

Not real sue I understand that. Low drive most absolutely, lazy ummmm not so sure about that one. Even after you explained I an still not so sure. But I do communicate to him what my needs are in the bedroom. I don't do that, more please, a little to the left, slower, faster, gentler, in those terms communication is great. 

Communication out side of the bedroom may be lacking. Always leave me a not when you go somewhere, or if you say you will be home at 5 then get here by 5. Some times it might be 5:04 when I get home.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

So many questions regarding the rape issue. Rape in general is just something we have learned to never question because it's always insensitive. But, to say being forced to have oral sex was rape, does bring the cynic out in me. I can only assume, but with you using the word rape it seems as though you weren't interest in oral sex, the other guy really wanted it, and he coerced you into giving him oral sex by pleading or possibly leading your head down. You hated it, you didn't like it, but there was no physical force, age, or some sort of drug given to you correct? It was more like something you did that you really didn't want to do, and although you did it, you immediately regretted it? If I am wrong on that, I apologize. I just can't see oral being rape, especially considering at any time the woman can literally bite off a guys penis, gun to her head or not. 

I don't consider a mistake rape. I also don't consider anything that isn't rape as an equivalent to rape. Very dangerous play of words going on here. Rape is rape. Rape is a absolute crime. Regret isn't. And I am unsure if guys get sent to prison for oral sex, unless it is someone underage. A guy is pretty helpless when there is 500 pounds of pressure holding on to his my sacred part. He has 0 control. One bite and that situation is over.

I will stop my reply here, although I have many opinions regarding the husband saying he loves her when he has sex, her comparing vacuuming the car to sex, and again, putting her own "I don't need" ahead of his needs. Not to mention, for people to suggest his kids are walking around naked, cold, and starving because she said he controls the money and she can't just buy new clothes when she thinks they need it, is outrageous.

She never said her kids were naked and starving. She wouldn't be on an internet browsing websites with naked starving kids running around, like they are in a third world country.

A lot of things being said here to create this image of this savage person, but it really comes down to her frustration in her husband being attracted to her and wanting to have sex / intimacy / be close to his wife and she would rather him not. She admitted to only giving him sex to keep him around, and now that she has him married with three kids, doesn't think she should give him sex to keep him around anymore.

I feel sorry for him.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I do believe she didn't say the oral was rape. That was just one thing done to her. There was a vaginal rape in there (if i'm not mistaken).

And you're right, it is a sensitive subject. If you haven't been through it, you don't get it.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

that_girl said:


> I do believe she didn't say the oral was rape. That was just one thing done to her. There was a vaginal rape in there (if i'm not mistaken).
> 
> And you're right, it is a sensitive subject. If you haven't been through it, you don't get it.


I agree. If there was something else I didn't see, not being oral or some regret she feels is "equivalent", then I apologize. Rape is rape, there is no equivalent, and regret is not a reason to say rape. If you have been on the other side of someone accusing you of rape when it absolutely wasn't true, you won't get it either.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, she said she explained the rape to her husband and he threw up about it, it was so grotesque. I hardly see that being from a bj...forced or not.

Regret is in no way a reason to call it rape.

Having been tagged teamed as a teenager while intoxicated, I can say that there is more to rape than penetration, as there was none during my ordeal, but it was still rape.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

That_girl, I am sorry to hear that. If the guys were adults (and you weren't) or sober and knew you were intoxicated, if I was on the jury I'd send them away for the rest of their lives. If the guys were also intoxicated and teenagers, also making equally bad intoxicated decisions, I am unsure how I'd feel.


Not that how I feel matters to you or how you view sex later in your life though.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't speak for the ladies and this is only my situation and maybe it can help you?

For 15 years of marriage, my wifee had the attitude of only having sex when our marriage was having issues. Sex was about 1x month. Of course I tried everything on my end to change this. I tried reading e-books, being more alpha male, no more mr. nice guy, taking charge of situation, surprise flowers and cards before she came downstairs getting ready for work, surprise dinners when she got home, always doing more than my share of chores and all the outside projects, grocery shop, and you name it. Of course, she loved all this and her stress decreased a lot, so all she had to do after work was make food and relax. I initiated often, so she wouldn't have to, and I even bought her a small vib which she enjoyed. All this didn't change her low "meh" sex drive over those 15 years and while I was taking care of her needs, she definitely wasn't taking care of my needs as a man. Only during the last 6+ months she finally got it, clicked, and now has lost 55 lbs at last count, many new sexy clothes for the first time and we actually have sex up to 3x week. But she still is "meh" about sex and could have it 1x month and if I don't initiate, she usually doesn't. When we have sex, I'm not a selfish guy and want to give her oral and please her, but she still won't let me, even after the weight loss and new clothing. For me, I need sex almost every day, and I could have sex everyday and my wifee is "meh" about sex. I wish LD ladies would just get it and get a healthy sex drive and take care of their man. The way to a happy man's heart is sex often and not only when you must have sex to keep him. Then why be married to him in the first place? Being single would be better then. For us, taking the 5 love languages quiz together also really helped and now my wifee really knows my main need and I know hers. We posted the results on the fridge and it has helped us a lot. Maybe it will help you as well?

http://www.5lovelanguages.com/


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Coldie said:


> That_girl, I am sorry to hear that. If the guys were adults (and you weren't) or sober and knew you were intoxicated, if I was on the jury I'd send them away for the rest of their lives. If the guys were also intoxicated and teenagers, also making equally bad intoxicated decisions, I am unsure how I'd feel.
> 
> 
> Not that how I feel matters to you or how you view sex later in your life though.


:rofl: Well, I'm happy you're unsure how you'd feel. 

I know I woke up naked, outside and bruised. I wasn't so drunk to not keep saying no. I remember that  But glad you're unsure. 

Done with this convo.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Having sex while dating for the sole purpose of keeping him from leaving was manipulative and just wrong. You both sound like bad selfish people.



I would not say bad or selfish, more like they did not think it thru.... 

OP should not have gotten into this mess to begin with and OP H should not have gotten into it as well. They both took two individual bad situations and merged them into two individual bad situations and an equally bad joint situation...


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

that_girl said:


> :rofl: Well, I'm happy you're unsure how you'd feel.
> 
> I know I woke up naked, outside and bruised. I wasn't so drunk to not keep saying no. I remember that  But glad you're unsure.
> 
> Done with this convo.


I know how I'd feel, but I just was being sensitive to the topic and not adding salt to anyone's wounds. 

Again, sorry you had to go through that.


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## Tango (Sep 30, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> Oh man, you guys have no idea the things I have dealt with in reguards to this man. I have said very little up until this point about him. I do not want to lead folks to think poorly of him. But with out knowing all the information it is hard to make an informed decision and answer questions to the best of your ability.
> 
> This man has kept me home for 15+ years. Employment was not an option. (staying at home to raise children was only part of the excuse of why he liked me being home all the time) He has a jealous streak a mile wide. He has been verbally and emotionally abusive for many years. He went to work everyday but left me here to raise 3 kids on my own. He didn't give me money for there clothes, there lunches for school, to do things with them. He admits to using money to control the situation. His money is the one thing he can control and he does. The amount of money he gives me determines how often I can leave the house, who gets new clothes. With 3 kids it is tough to make left over grocery money stretch to clothe 3 kids. There is little to no grocery money left.
> 
> ...


I digress and apologize.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

> Sex meets his needs. The only time he says he loves me and I feel like he means it is when we are having sex. But then I feel used, it is easy to love someone when you are getting what you want from them. I would love to here you are so soft, or you are beautiful sometime other then in the bedroom


Oh man. I could have written this myself.

I hate it. I always know when it's been 3 days because he starts getting "cute". He needs sex every 3 days. I used to want it daily...but with all the crap he's done, i'd rather not have it at all.

But to be caressed and told nice things ONLY to try to warm me up for sex is insulting and rude. The rest of the days, I'm lucky if I get a hug or kiss. We can go all day without touching if it is the day after sex.

Yuck.


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## Married but not happy (Jan 11, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> low drive doesn't = lazy for starters.
> 
> You are correct in say "It is not that I don't want to have sex, I can and do from time to time." We just happened to have good sex last weekend and I am good for a bit. It is like eating a candy bar and it being good and then some one trying to make you want another one the next day, just because they want another candy bar and expecting you to love it just as much. It is much more likable when you want it. And just because someone else wants one doesn't mean that you have to want one to and you should eat one just because someone else wants you to.
> 
> ...


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Again, Thank you all for your responces. I will not be able to respond this evening. As I said before my H is the jealous type and I don;t use the computer when he is home. He reads over my shoulder, questions what I write, laughs at how I spell, and insenuates how wasteful I am with my time and resources if I am talking to people who are not real.

By the way, YALL ARE REAL. Contrary to his belief. Just because you believe it doesn't make it true. Yall are real.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

OK, help me out here. I consider this rape. 

Here is part of my story, one of hte ones I can repeat:

I used to work on a horse farm. I wanted to show my boyfriend the place I worked. We were renovating. New stalls were being built. We ended up in a stall. I remember it had no roof and smelled like pine and had fresh sawdust. It smelled so good. When we were in the stall he wanted to take my shirt off. I protested more than normal. It didn’t do any good. I had on shorts and a shirt. I ended up shirtless and braless. He has me stand up in front of him so he could just look at me. He touched me and felt of me. I felt so defenseless. I felt like an object, something to look at and touch. I couldn’t scream. I didn’t want anyone to find me this way. It did no good to try to make him stop. So I just stood there and let him touch me. My mind DEFINITELY went somewhere else. He touched my breasts and I didn’t like it. I hated it. I stood w/ my hands to my side as he felt of me. He didn’t get the reaction he wanted and went behind me so I had my back against him. His goal was to bring me back from where I was mentally. I was not enjoying it like he was. It was harder indeed to remain mentally gone especially when I couldn’t see him. But I did and eventually he stopped. But that was not the end. He took a bucket and had me put a leg up on it. I had on shorts mind you. So he finally had access to what he really wanted. He took his fingers and put them in my shorts and touched my private parts. He got no reaction. He took his fingers and put them inside of me. I didn’t like it. I hated it. I felt even more used than normal. I had no feeling of enjoyment that I know of and my body didn’t respond w/ pleasure. I know I was so mentally gone. He could have done so much more to me, think God he didn’t. In anger we left the barn and he badgered me all afternoon. We went out for the evening, I should have never gotten in the truck with him. After much begging and pleading and not taking me home He got what he wanted. He always did. I always fall for this, I know what will happen and I go with him anyway. He would not take me home and I would be the one in trouble if I didn;t get home on time. He made me do oral. We were in the truck and he pushed my head down on to him and made me do it. I hated it. I hated him, but when it was over he always made me feel like I was loved. All I ever wanted was to be wanted and loved.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

People think I am just opposed to sex. That is not it. People think I with hold in an attempt to be cold hearted I suppose. But that is not it either. 

Here is another insert I put on a site for for Survivors of rape. Now you can make an informed decision because you know most all the facts. 


For 9 months I was raped. I was 15 and my boyfriend was 19 or 20 years old. Every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday would end up the same way. I didn't have the strength to fight for myself. I remember crying and begin, and pleading for him to stop. I soon learned it was easier to just go threw w/ what he wanted so he would stop and leave me alone. This is just one incident that occurred....
On this one occasion, HE put me in his truck. Things would start out innocent, we were going to check on calves. I didn't know this was an excuse. After getting in the truck we would go into different hey fields, past barns, threw gates, some fields more than once from opposite ends. He was getting me lost. We came to one of the hay barns and we got out. We checked out the calves, but that was not all he wanted to check out. In the barn was a blanket and a bottle of Cloraseptic throat spray. I knew what he wanted. It was comply or I’ll leave you here. It had gotten close enough to dark that I knew I would never find my way back. 

I happen to be terrified of the dark. I am still afraid of the dark. Even in my own house. So any way back to the story, I did what he wanted, learned what was necessary and found a whole new use for throat spray. 
I remember the tears, the dread, the begging from him to go threw with it. I remember the begging to stop from me, the fear. As sad as it sounds, I remember the care put into my comfort. The blanket, the throat spray, the chap stick for afterwards. At one point I thought he was trying to choke me w/ his hand on my throat. But soon I learned that was not his full intent. It was his intent to choke me for not complying or not doing something correctly “I told you …..” But at times it was a kind gesture to keep the angle correct or to keep me from being sick. Since he knew what to do and I did not, I had to trust a monster, I had to put my faith in an animal (him), to get through this. I did and learned quickly what to do to make this process go as quickly and painlessly as possible, 

He didn’t make me take it all in my mouth (cum) every time. I guess the sight of tears & that were a bad combination. I do not EVER want to do that again. Some things are meant to be swallowed, not that though. EEEWWWWW. 

Past boyfriends and my husband included think I don't do this because I don't know how. They assume that I do not do this because I don’t know how. That could not be further from the truth. Believe me I do. I learned under the most horrible conditions


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> OK, help me out here. I consider this rape.
> 
> Here is part of my story, one of hte ones I can repeat:
> 
> I used to work on a horse farm. I wanted to show my boyfriend the place I worked. We were renovating. New stalls were being built. We ended up in a stall. I remember it had no roof and smelled like pine and had fresh sawdust. It smelled so good. When we were in the stall he wanted to take my shirt off. I protested more than normal. It didn’t do any good. I had on shorts and a shirt. I ended up shirtless and braless. He has me stand up in front of him so he could just look at me. He touched me and felt of me. I felt so defenseless. I felt like an object, something to look at and touch. I couldn’t scream. I didn’t want anyone to find me this way. It did no good to try to make him stop. So I just stood there and let him touch me. My mind DEFINITELY went somewhere else. He touched my breasts and I didn’t like it. I hated it. I stood w/ my hands to my side as he felt of me. He didn’t get the reaction he wanted and went behind me so I had my back against him. His goal was to bring me back from where I was mentally. I was not enjoying it like he was. It was harder indeed to remain mentally gone especially when I couldn’t see him. But I did and eventually he stopped. But that was not the end. He took a bucket and had me put a leg up on it. I had on shorts mind you. So he finally had access to what he really wanted. He took his fingers and put them in my shorts and touched my private parts. He got no reaction. He took his fingers and put them inside of me. I didn’t like it. I hated it. I felt even more used than normal. I had no feeling of enjoyment that I know of and my body didn’t respond w/ pleasure. I know I was so mentally gone. He could have done so much more to me, think God he didn’t. In anger we left the barn and he badgered me all afternoon. We went out for the evening, I should have never gotten in the truck with him. After much begging and pleading and not taking me home He got what he wanted. He always did. I always fall for this, I know what will happen and I go with him anyway. He would not take me home and I would be the one in trouble if I didn;t get home on time. He made me do oral. We were in the truck and he pushed my head down on to him and made me do it. I hated it. I hated him, but when it was over he always made me feel like I was loved. All I ever wanted was to be wanted and loved.


If he did things to you that you did not like and that you consider rape, why was he your boyfriend. 

You have said that he raped you repeatedly. So why did you keep going out with him if you did not want the sex with him? 

To be honest I'm not sure that what you describe is rape. Why? Because you do not describe yourself as having actually let him know that you did not want this with him. Instead you just check out to la-la land and let him do what he wanted.

If I were the female in that story and I told him no, but he kept going... I would have picked up that bucket and/or anything else that was in that stall and beaten him silly it with. By the time I was done he would have understood that "no" means "no".

What it sounds like to me is that as soon as anything sexual starts you check out mentally, let the guy do anything he wants and then you protest that he did what you let him do.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

PTSD is not a choice, it is a harsh and sad reality. It can be worked around some, it can be lessened some, but it can just as easily be aggravated and irritated and made worse. My H an I are trying to find what works for me, and I do feel selfish, but I also want to get better and have some kind of normal sex life. I think it will happen, not today, not tomorrow, but some time in the near future. Denying my H's sexual need at the moment is helping me get past this stuff. Giving in t someone elses sexual needs feels like abuse to me. I have always given in to someone elses sexual needs, when do I get time to heal. When do I get to have a sexual need or a lack of.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Why did you keep going out with him?

Why didn't you tell someone who could help you?

You need to answer those questions because they are very important. You felt violated but you continued to let him violate you and did nothing to protect yourself.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Ele - you are corrrect, I did check out, by that time in the relationship I had already been groomed for silence. I know some folks don't think that is possible but believe me it is. 


I was 15 he was 20.

I always begged "No please don't" I begged him to stop. He always told me if you scream your parents will hear you and then what will they think when they see you like this. The thought never occurred to me that they could help me. He always told me "You better hurry up and get on with it, someone might see you like this then what would your mama and daddy think"

Part of why I stayed with this individual was a lot of issues with my home life. I just wanted out, I wanted a way, I wanted to be loved. When I learned that it was easier to give in because he was gonna get what he wanted anyway, I just "went away."


HE did this 50+ times, he put me out at dumpsters at night, like trash, would leave me. He'd come back later to pick me up and he wouldn't let me back in the truck unless I agreed to do it for him .


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Why did you keep going out with him?
> 
> Why didn't you tell someone who could help you?
> 
> You need to answer those questions because they are very important. You felt violated but you continued to let him violate you and did nothing to protect yourself.


I told no one. My parents were the kind of people who would just brush it under the rug and pretend it never happened. I would come home with severely chapped lips and it was obvious I had been crying, My mom offered me chap stick but never said anything. I used to sleep walk in my sleep, put on layers and layers of clothes in my sleep, shower in my sleep, all signs that something was WRONG. Yet no one asked any questions. I tried to tell my Sunday school teacher but he and his wife left the church weeks after I told them. I assumed it was because of me. As an adult looking back, I don't believe that anymore. I told a relative and they were shocked that I would do such a thing. SO I kept quiet from then on. I wasn't worth listening to.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> OK, help me out here. I consider this rape.
> 
> Here is part of my story, one of hte ones I can repeat:
> 
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> Ele - you are corrrect, I did check out, by that time in the relationship I had already been groomed for silence. I know some folks don't think that is possible but believe me it is.
> 
> 
> I was 15 he was 20.
> ...


OK I get that you were a kid. He was 20, not old, but old enough to have learned how to use a younger person. He probably learned as lot of this observing some older guy.

I have read that one of the things that a victim of abuse can do is to go back in your mind as a adult and have conversations with the 15 year old you. You can give the 15 year old the nurturing and protection that the 15 year old did not know how to reach out for. This is not about dual personalities, or anything like that. It's an exercise that you can do, perhaps by writing down letters to the 15 year old telling her that she had every right to reject what was going on. You can tell her that you will always protect her in the future. Stuff like that. 

I've also read that a victim of abuse gets stuck at the emotional age level at which the abuse happened because they stop growing emotionally. To be honest I see this in you. It takes a lot of work to get through it and grow yourself emotionally this much later in life. But you can do it with help.

Like I said, you need to answer why you let it go on and did not get help. You did a bit but not entirely. The reason you have to answer it is that I think the solution to you finding the strength to handle your current problems is in the answer. 

From what you have said, you did the same thing with your husband. You just go somewhere else in your head and let the abuse go on.. the emotional abuse, the financial abuse. 

When a person checks out like you have they are not only giving up the control to the other person, they are giving up the responsibility that they have for what their own life, their own well being, even for their children.

So you become a helpless victim of men... the boyfriend and now your husband. Were you the helpless victim of your parents? Of someone else?

I get what you are trying to say in your OP on this thread. But it's very awkward. When I first read it my thought was that this sounds like a kid (15?) who is trying to grow some autonomy and control over her life. This is new territory for you and so you are struggling with it. 

I hope you have a very good T and are getting a lot of help. I don't know if my posts are helpful or not as I almost don't know what to say.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> I told no one. My parents were the kind of people who would just brush it under the rug and pretend it never happened. I would come home with severely chapped lips and it was obvious I had been crying, My mom offered me chap stick but never said anything. I used to sleep walk in my sleep, put on layers and layers of clothes in my sleep, shower in my sleep, all signs that something was WRONG. Yet no one asked any questions. I tried to tell my Sunday school teacher but he and his wife left the church weeks after I told them. I assumed it was because of me. As an adult looking back, I don't believe that anymore. I told a relative and they were shocked that I would do such a thing. SO I kept quiet from then on. I wasn't worth listening to.


Sadly I'm not surprised that the few people you did tell did not do the right thing. I don't know how long ago this was. I know today that a lot of effort is put out there to teach kids that they can tell people like teachers as they are mandatory reporters.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> Big Mama said:
> 
> 
> > OK, help me out here. I consider this rape.
> ...


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> OK I get that you were a kid. He was 20, not old, but old enough to have learned how to use a younger person. He probably learned as lot of this observing some older guy.
> 
> I have read that one of the things that a victim of abuse can do is to go back in your mind as a adult and have conversations with the 15 year old you. You can give the 15 year old the nurturing and protection that the 15 year old did not know how to reach out for. This is not about dual personalities, or anything like that. It's an exercise that you can do, perhaps by writing down letters to the 15 year old telling her that she had every right to reject what was going on. You can tell her that you will always protect her in the future. Stuff like that.
> 
> ...



Some of the things you said have helped. It helped to know that your initial thought was this is a kid like behavior. I am very much stuck in the developmental state of a 15 yr old. Fifteen year old kids/teens don't or shouldn't be expected to have sex and don't have sex with people who are mean to them either. I need to keep that in check and make sure I am always growing towards the bigger number. I do need to progress out of that mental age. I am working towards that. My T told me I have no identity. I am who my husband says I need to be, I like what he says I can like, in the past 2 months since he has been gone I am working on developing the skills to say what I need. And stand for what I say and believe in. I have also been finding me. 

Another questions of your was ....Was I the victim of my parents or someone else. 

Well I was a mistake child, I was never wanted, and it was very obvious that when my mom had my sister after her and my dad were married that was a much better circumstance for a child. My mom was 16 when she had me. 

There was also issues with CSA. My neighbor was a petfile and my parents knew and didn't keep him away from me. Other family members participated in CSA type things as well. My uncle thought it was his job to tell me about the birds and the bees by showing me porn when I as 9 or 10. (believe it or not I was stuck at the emotional age of 9 when I started T) When I was 3 or 4 something happened that I am not clear on, I recall to many confusing things and am in the process of working with those parts of memories at he present time.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I will tell you a little something about sex in marriage. Sex helps create a bond, between two people evetually that bond will break and what will you have then?

I will tell you.. Your husband will resent you, he will stop trying to make you happy he will stop meeting your needs all together, and I do mean all of them. He will also stop pestering you for sex.. He will meet his own needs or find someone who is willing, until he grows tired and leaves.

I strongly belive in a marriage, there is no such thing as I, it doesnt exsist. I dont mean to be harsh, but this is the reality of what will happen.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> Some of the things you said have helped. It helped to know that your initial thought was this is a kid like behavior. I am very much stuck in the developmental state of a 15 yr old. Fifteen year old kids/teens don't or shouldn't be expected to have sex and don't have sex with people who are mean to them either. I need to keep that in check and make sure I am always growing towards the bigger number. I do need to progress out of that mental age. I am working towards that. My T told me I have no identity. I am who my husband says I need to be, I like what he says I can like, in the past 2 months since he has been gone I am working on developing the skills to say what I need. And stand for what I say and believe in. I have also been finding me.


Keep up the growth. I hope that you find the strength and peace that you deserve some day sooner than later. 


Big Mama said:


> Another questions of your was ....Was I the victim of my parents or someone else.
> 
> Well I was a mistake child, I was never wanted, and it was very obvious that when my mom had my sister after her and my dad were married that was a much better circumstance for a child. My mom was 16 when my mom had me.
> 
> There was also issues with CSA. My neighbor was a petfile and my parents knew and didn't keep him away from me. Other family members participated in CSA type things as well. A relative thought it was his job to tell me about the birds and the bees by showing me porn when I as 9 or 10. (Believe it or not I was stuck at the emotional age of 9 when I started T) When I was 3 or 4 something happened that I am not clear on, I recall to many confusing things and am in the process of working with those parts of memories at he present time.


None of this surprises me. Your reaction to your bf abusing you pretty much points to you having been groomed to just put up with abuse prior to you being with him. A person like him knows how to pick a person with prior abuse. They could not tell you how but the instantly know how. There is a chance that he was abuse and/or lived around an older guy who was an abuser and picked up on the behavior. About 30% of the kids who are abused turn out to be abusers themselves. I did volunteer work with child who were abused. I’ve followed some on them for many years. Some of the boys did turn into abusers. You could just see it in their behavior. It was so engrained that they carried it further. 

I don’t of course know how this will pan out for your marriage. I guess neither do you? 

I do think that you need to do things to become independent and self-reliant. Getting a job would be a very good idea. If you need to get training, doing that first would be wise. Knowing that you can be self-reliant goes a long way to giving a person confidence.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

I know that if my ways don't ever change this is what will happen. But I also know if he wants me to have more then "duty sex" then he has to give me room to heal and grow. That is all I really want. It has been a year since I told him about the rape, and 4-5 months since I told him about the CSA. I know a year on limited sex is not easy for him. But what if just maybe he left me alone and let me come to him for it for a change, when I felt like I needed it, when I felt like I could handle it, wouldn't that be so much more productive.


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> I know that if my ways don't ever change this is what will happen. But I also know if he wants me to have more then "duty sex" then he has to give me room to heal and grow. That is all I really want. It has been a year since I told him about the rape, and 4-5 months since I told him about the CSA. I know a year on limited sex is not easy for him. But what if just maybe he left me alone and let me come to him for it for a change, when I felt like I needed it, when I felt like I could handle it, wouldn't that be so much more productive.


I think so and if he loved you he would accept that.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

I have done a lot of work. I am a "Writer." I feel things threw writing and since I lack the words and get caught up in the trauma factor of fight flight or freeze, mine being freeze , I often can;t talk ajd have to resort to writing. 

I have "Re written the story" form the position of me being in control of these situations and having the ability to change them. Since I didn't want to confront any of these individuals, I wrote letters to them and wrote about how I would handle telling them and the relief I would feel after giving it to them. The anger I felt towards them the hurt they caused me and so on. 

I also have been struggling with nightmares and flashbacks. To get past that I have been writing from the point of view of my H being the person who saves me and helps me. That has helped alot. It is a slow process but it has been working. My nightmares are still here, but they are changing in suttle ways. Instead being attacked and used, I escape. (or the dream ends before it gets to that point) and now I told someone in my last nightmare about the abuse. They didn;t speak back to me, but I took another step. So all these things show that my mind is progressing. 

I just need my H to leave me a lone a little and not push me to have sex. Again I am not being selfish. I knw a year is a long time to wait, and it's not like he never gets it, he does from time to time. Just not as often as he likes.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It does sound like you are doing a lot to work on your issues. 

It's often very hard for another person to deal with someone else going to a hard time. He is not experiencing it so he cannot really understand what you are going through.


It's like I know that breaking a leg hurts. The weeks/months in a cast are hard to deal with. But since I've never done either I can only empathize to a point.

Have you ever thought of you taking charge of your sex life for a while. I'm not talking about what you have suggested that he just wait for you to be ready. I'm talking about you becoming very forward... think of this. You are completely in control, you seduce him, you do what you want to him (except hurt him) he just has to lay there and let you do it. If you want him to do something to/for you, then you tell him what to do. You might heal quicker if you can gain a sense of control over your own sexuality. Not just that you wait until you are deprived enough to want sex but that you actively seek it out and do it on your terms. He might just like it too. It might just start a new sort of play that the two of you can act out.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The problem is that after a year you may be in a comfort zone of not having sex at all and he will be stuck holding the bag and his end of the bargain. 

Things don't always improve with time and lack of intimacy is one of them.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

We do have sex. What brought this thread on in the first place was him wanting to have sex again. We had sex, then he was wanting to know "How about sex this weekend." Last weekend was a time of good sex, no "O"s or mind blowing connection but good as in no dissociating, yes with me participating, and no panicking and I didn't cry or have nightmares afterwards in the nights to come. But one night of good and positive sexual experiences doesn't mean I wanted to try it again so soon. Good grief I just had all the sexual touching I could stand for a bit. Give me a break. 

So I do want sex just not at near the frequency he does. He has already discovered that if he leaves me alone, I will come back around for more and I will be hungry. Though I know that helps very little when he wants it NOW!!! Waiting till I am ravishingly hungry for sex could seem like along time, though it is likely just another week away. It is just so much more meaningful if he can wait on me. But I know waiting is not easy and at times it can seem like a long wait. I get that.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Big Mama said:


> We do have sex. I would never ask him to go for a year with out sex. That is just unreasonable.
> 
> What brought this thread on in the first place was him wanting to have sex again. We had sex, then he was wanting to know "How about sex this weekend." Last weekend was a time of good sex, no "O"s or mind blowing connection but good as in no dissociating, yes with me participating, and no panicking and I didn't cry or have nightmares afterwards in the nights to come. But one night of good and positive sexual experiences doesn't mean I wanted to try it again so soon. Good grief I just had all the sexual touching I could stand for a bit. Give me a break.
> 
> So I do want sex just not at near the frequency he does. He has already discovered that if he leaves me alone, I will come back around for more and I will be hungry. Though I know that helps very little when he wants it NOW!!! Waiting till I am ravishingly hungry for sex could seem like along time, though it is likely just another week away. It is just so much more meaningful if he can wait on me. But I know waiting is not easy and at times it can seem like a long wait. I get that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think the priority here is healing from your past trauma. Your husband is getting sex sometimes. He is not sexless. And frankly, he is not the priority.

You were abused, Big Mama, sure as shootin'. I am so sorry.

You wanted love, or anything close to it. I am so sorry your parents did not love you, and did not give you the protection and caring that you needed.

My sister was terribly abused by the music teacher at our school when she was a pre-teen. When my mother found out, she blamed my sister. Anything to not have to take responsibility herself. I hated that about my mother.

I am so sorry, Big Mama. I am just so sorry for what happened to you. That young man used you. He knew what he was doing was wrong. I am sure he was only thinking about his . . . _needs._

I think continuing to be transparent with your husband is essential. The marital counseling and personal counseling are essential. 

You probably need to think about becoming more financially independent, too. Your husband could leave you if you are not able to meet his sexual requirements. It's not right, but it doesn't sound like he is able to put your needs ahead of his desires. So you need to have a plan for how to support yourself and the kids if he leaves you.

Again, so sorry. So many women have gone through this. So many women used and abused by men. I feel like I have known so many. And it makes me angry every single time.


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## Coldie (Jan 2, 2014)

It's absolutely statutory rape. 15 and the guy was over 4 years older.

You weren't old enough to make good decisions, even if you didn't say yes or no, even if you liked having an older boyfriend, the guy did rape you. He should have known better to mess with such a young girl.

Sorry to hear that. This happens a lot, especially with 15 year old girls wanting to be older. I remember when I was 15, all the girls were dating seniors in high school or guys already graduated. It was like a social status thing. Now, they are probably dealing with the same issues as you. Never really said no, but just checked out while the older boys did everything their hearts desired.

I don't know how to deal with that sort of trauma and I am sure if affects how much you can enjoy sex. I suggest getting some sort of counseling because making love/sex/intimacy is part of a marriage.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Codie thank you so much. I'm do have a T and she specializes in trauma's. She has been a great help. After talking to the T i have come to realize that different tragedies strike people all the time it is our upbringing that gives us the ability to take something minor and recover from it or to take something minor and let it destroy you. 

For me in particular, I was raised in a very strict christian family. I was raised very naive. My parents never spoke of sex. We were not allowed to watch TV shows with any violence on it. I remember not being able to watch "Murder She Wrote" or "Mattlock" Anything that dealt with murder, sex or even someone being pregnant. You know they got that way some how. 

This world is a cruel place and I didn't know it. My parents thought they could save me from it instead they fed me to the wolves. I just have to make sure to save my self now and to not make the same mistake with my children.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

There is so much going on here. You both have issues, and you both have done wrong which has contributed into this big mess. 

I think this needs professional help, but honestly I don't think this should work out. There is too much damage, and it just isn't healthy for either of you. You should have never married him in the first place when you felt coerced. You two just aren't compatible. It is a toxic relationship, and I really worry about your well being. 

I'll be praying for you. This is a tough situation.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I am avoiding the whole abuse topic because I have no experience there and have already stated that I hope you are getting help and the perpetrator has received his just punishment.

I do have alot of experience on the sexual needs topic, so I will try to explain more a bit on the desire thing. Let's stay with your hunger analogy. You can go much longer than he can without eating. To quantify this, he needs a meal every 3 days (HighDesire.. actually I would call this a *Normal*Desire frequency) you more once per month (LowDesire).

If it were just a case of you being only LowDesire, then all you would need is HIM to suggest a nice meal together, and you would say yes (even though you were not thinking of food yourself).
You would say Yes, because even if YOU are not technically hungry, it is still fun to sit down with your H at the table over a meal, especially if he has sincerely asked to eat together.

Let's say I had just eaten a full 7 course meal: if my wife came to me and said she would really like me to join her for dinner, I would say Yes, I would nibble at a salad, play with the bread, and indulge in a few bites of desert. We would talk and enjoy the meal together, even though she is satisfying a hunger while I am just being good company.

I would NOT just tell her "_nope, sorry but I just ate, you are on your own. try me next week and I might be hungry then_".

That's what I am calling "sexually lazy". And this is very different from just Low Desire.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

I'd like to add that I was in a sexless marriage.
Back then, my wife was both low desire and sexually lazy.
We had other issues too (some of it was my not meeting her non-sexual needs) and we've worked through all of this such that today we have a satisfying sexlife instead of divorce (which is where I was headed with her).

She still has low desire!!!!!
But she is "cured" of being sexually lazy.
I initiate sex (maybe 3 or 4 times per week), she says Yes with enough frequency to keep me very happy (2X per week).
She may lack the sexual hunger that I have, but once we are both seated at the (sexual) table together, she gets her fair share of desert.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

In my mind this is simple. If you dont want to take care of your husbands needs...let him go take care of them with someone else. A need is a need. He shouldn't be held hostage to your limited desire schedule. And it sounds like you feel like you're being held hostage to his desire for you.

So the simple answer is let him get it from someone else. It will get to that point eventually anyways. Either by cheating or divorce.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

tommyr said:


> I am avoiding the whole abuse topic because I have no experience there and have already stated that I hope you are getting help and the perpetrator has received his just punishment.
> 
> I do have alot of experience on the sexual needs topic, so I will try to explain more a bit on the desire thing. Let's stay with your hunger analogy. You can go much longer than he can without eating. To quantify this, he needs a meal every 3 days (HighDesire.. actually I would call this a *Normal*Desire frequency) you more once per month (LowDesire).
> 
> ...


AHHHHH HAAAAA!!!!!!! I get it. I understand. Thank you for that explanation. And I agree, if that is sexually lazy that unfortunately is me. I am glad your wife has changed her ways. You must tell me, How in the world did this change come about?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

tommyr said:


> I'd like to add that I was in a sexless marriage.
> Back then, my wife was both low desire and sexually lazy.
> We had other issues too (some of it was my not meeting her non-sexual needs) and we've worked through all of this such that today we have a satisfying sexlife instead of divorce (which is where I was headed with her).
> 
> ...


How did she decide she wanted to turn it around?


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

treyvion said:


> How did she decide she wanted to turn it around?


Her _AHHHHH HAAAAA!!!!!!!_ moment was the result of several things, listed in order of descending significance (most important first):

1. In the most pleasant terms possible, I made it clear to her that a "sexless marriage" no longer would work for me. With our marriage on the line, her fog lifted and we could both move forward with meeting each other's needs, as a loving married couple does. In other words, she _saw my tail lights in the driveway_ and she "blinked", I believe because I was sincere about wanting it to work, and I was willing to do my part if she did hers.

2. marriage counseling for 6 months

3. i did alot of reading/researching and posting on forums similar to this one (google loveshack)


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Thank you for sharing. I appreciate that. I had no idea sex was such an important thing until I cam to this site. I knew it was something that married people do, but I had no idea the importance it carries. I have lots to think about that is for sure and the sooner the better.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tommyr said:


> I am avoiding the whole abuse topic because I have no experience there and have already stated that I hope you are getting help and the perpetrator has received his just punishment.
> 
> I do have alot of experience on the sexual needs topic, so I will try to explain more a bit on the desire thing. Let's stay with your hunger analogy. You can go much longer than he can without eating. To quantify this, he needs a meal every 3 days (HighDesire.. actually I would call this a *Normal*Desire frequency) you more once per month (LowDesire).
> 
> ...


You miss an important point.

A person is has been traumatized by sexual abused and/or rape has a problem with being touched.

To go along with your analogy. When person A is just keeping person B company while B eats, A does not have to eat.

When person B wants sex but person A does not want sex, person A has to join person B in the sex. They have to participate.

So let's throw something else into that meal scenario to make it more like the sex deal. A is not hungry but agrees to sit with B while he eats. But now the rule is that A has to eat when B eats. But B is eating something that A is allergic to. So now A has to eat something that A is allergic to in order go keep B company during the meal.

The allergy is my analogy for the trauma that a victim of CSA/rape goes through when they have sex when it's not 100% their choice. The CSA/rape victim goes through PTSD basically in this scenario.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tommyr said:


> I'd like to add that I was in a sexless marriage.
> Back then, my wife was both low desire and sexually lazy.
> We had other issues too (some of it was my not meeting her non-sexual needs) and we've worked through all of this such that today we have a satisfying sexlife instead of divorce (which is where I was headed with her).
> 
> ...


Does your wife actually enjoy the sex? Or is she doing duty sex to keep you around?


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife actually enjoy the sex? Or is she doing duty sex to keep you around?


She gives every appearance of enjoying our sex. She O's about 1 in 3 times and when she does it's usually multiples.
She can (and does) turn me down sometimes. 
If she really hated our sex I would expect her to, you know, mention this to me like an adult would do.
Or, if she in fact liked sex just not with me, again this would be an important thing for her to share.

Technically speaking, you might call it duty sex to keep me around.
In the same way that I do for her: duty home repairs and duty work-for-a-living and duty tell-me-about-your-day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

tommyr said:


> She gives every appearance of enjoying our sex.
> 
> Technically speaking, you might call it duty sex to keep me around.
> In the same way that I do for her: duty home repairs and duty work-for-a-living and duty tell-me-about-your-day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But she has to give the appearance of enjoying it? If she did not give the appearance, would it still be okay with you?


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> When person B wants sex but person A does not want sex, person A has to join person B in the sex. They have to participate.


See right there I have to disagree with you.
If I initiate sex, and even if she's not (on her on volition) feeling horny, but she says YES anyway, this is her making an affirmative choice which she does NOT have to.



EleGirl said:


> The allergy is my analogy for the trauma that a victim of CSA/rape goes through when they have sex when it's not 100% their *choice*.


I admitted to having no experience with sexual abuse. 
All I can say on that topic is seek professional help, same as would a person with allergy.
But don't withhold sex from H because that is a form of abuse.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But isn't it also a form of abuse to pressure someone into having sex when they are not comfortable with it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tommyr said:


> She gives every appearance of enjoying our sex. She O's about 1 in 3 times and when she does it's usually multiples.
> She can (and does) turn me down sometimes.
> If she really hated our sex I would expect her to, you know, mention this to me like an adult would do.
> Or, if she in fact liked sex just not with me, again this would be an important thing for her to share.
> ...


You do not fix the house just for her. It's your home and your children's home.

You don't make a living for her alone. You are also supporting your children and yourself.

Equating sex to talking about how someone's day is going is just down right odd.

I'm HD. Never have had any problem having sex with someone I care about. But I would never, ever have duty sex. Since men cannot have duty sex really I don't think it would be easy to explain what feels like to a woman. I'm not implying that your wife is doing just duty sex. But I find your implication that a woman just doing duty sex is on the same line as fixing the house or having conversations with your spouse more than a tad disturbing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

sinnister said:


> In my mind this is simple. If you dont want to take care of your husbands needs...let him go take care of them with someone else. A need is a need. He shouldn't be held hostage to your limited desire schedule. And it sounds like you feel like you're being held hostage to his desire for you.
> 
> So the simple answer is let him get it from someone else. It will get to that point eventually anyways. Either by cheating or divorce.


And if her husband does not take care of her needs for emotional safety and emotional intimacy, the same thing will happen, she will either find someone to have an emotional affair with or divorce him. 

His need for sex is not greater than her need for emotional safety and intimacy.

Why is this hard to understand?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tommyr said:


> See right there I have to disagree with you.
> If I initiate sex, and even if she's not (on her on volition) feeling horny, but she says YES anyway, this is her making an affirmative choice which she does NOT have to..


Now you are messing with your own analogy. Your analogy was about comparing having sex with a meal.. in which on person ate and the other just there to keep them company.



tommyr said:


> I admitted to having no experience with sexual abuse.
> 
> All I can say on that topic is seek professional help, same as would a person with allergy.
> 
> But don't withhold sex from H because that is a form of abuse.


She is getting professional help. What you and others do not understand is that CSA and rape are characterized by the victim having no control over what happens to their body/sexuality. Part of the cure is for the victim to take time to learn to have control of their body/sexuality. So the OP was advised to have sex when she wants to and to not force herself. 

If she has duty sex when she does not want it, then she is back to someone using her body for their own pleasure and her again having no control over what is happening to her.

This is what makes this so hard for survivors of CSA/rape who are severely traumatized.

It does not help that her husband has been abusive for years so she does not feel safe with him.

This idea that THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in the world is her husband's desire for sex is an issue. Her needs are equally important to his. If he does not give her time to heal, then the marriage is doomed anyway.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> * Since men cannot have duty sex *


I never thought of it that way before, but you are exactly right. Thanks for pointing that out, EleGirl.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Since men cannot have duty sex really I don't think it would be easy to explain what feels like to a woman.


Of course men can have duty sex. They can perform oral on their wives as "duty sex," right? Or bring her to orgasm using his hands. That isn't any different than a bj or handjob.



> I'm not implying that your wife is doing just duty sex. But I find your implication that a woman just doing duty sex is on the same line as fixing the house or having conversations with your spouse more than a tad disturbing.


:iagree:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

norajane said:


> Of course men can have duty sex. They can perform oral on their wives as "duty sex," right? Or bring her to orgasm using his hands. That isn't any different than a bj or handjob.


You are right. A man can do this. I've yet to meet a man who will give his wife a bj or handjob just for her and not expect something for himself, let alone do it for long periods of time (meaning a few times a week for months/years).

Now there probably are a very few men who do this. Even fewer who would do not on a regular basis when they have no sex drive or have reasons that they cannot have sex.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Now you are messing with your own analogy. Your analogy was about comparing having sex with a meal.. in which on person ate and the other just there to keep them company.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OH ELE, You said it so perfectly. You said what I could not. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.

I can have sex, I do have sex, sometimes I even offer to please my husband, sometimes I do have sex when I am not totally in the mood. I might be in an "ehhhh ok I guess we can" mood. But when I an in a what the hell, you have to be kidding me, today has been completely to stressful, you have no idea how hard I worked to clean the house, the kids have been all over me, and you griped because the house was not clean enough (he has OCD to by the way) and you want to know why I don't want to have sex. The thought never EVEN crossed my mind, I'm irritated and agitated and exhausted. I have caved to everyone elses need all day. 

Some times the I have "Freudian Slips", The last time which was this time I asked him "PLEASE don'mt make me have sex" I am learning. I didn't cry, I was able to say no, and thing god he didn't push me any more t hen he did. 

I think when I learn it is ok to say "no" and that I am safe, the answer will turn to yes. As I think I said before the night mares have stopped for the moment, and the flashbacks are fewer. Things are improving. No sex or minimal sex is not going to be a permanent thing. 

I did apologize to my H and I told him I never meant for his time married to me to be like the life of a monk. And it has not been in the past, and it will not be in the future. Just at the moment, you are getting more sex then a monk but not by much. For that I am sorry.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

tommyr said:


> Technically speaking, you might call it duty sex to keep me around.
> In the same way that I do for her: duty home repairs and duty work-for-a-living and duty tell-me-about-your-day.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can change the oil in my car by myself, is it easier if my H does it, sure it is. I can change the light bulbs, I can wash the gutters, I can mow the lawn, I can fix broken fence lines, broken water lines, and just about anything else around the house. 


These things are his job, but I can do it. If he doesn't I will. Often I do because it is just easier than asking him to do it for me. Just like his sexual need, he can take care of it himself, is it better if he has me to help him sure. But he can do it. Just like I can change the light bulb. If he is agitated and tired, out of respect for him I change it myself. Out of respect for me, he could take care of his sexual need to save me the grief. He can ask, If I say no then don't nag me, do't guilt trip me, don't harass me. Then it does become duty sex. And the guilt trippin, harassing and nagging is what the abuser did to make the sex meet his need and have nothing to do with my need. If for some reason I do give in because I am tired of being guilt tripped and I am allowing my self to be taken advantage of, Don't you dare say, "well it would have been better if you would have acted like you at least liked it a little." WOW. Sorry I had a moment there. Rant over. 

Him having Aspergers makes this hard for him to understand. But he can take care of it himself. Just like I can change the light bulb my self. I can take into consideration others feelings where often he cannot.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> . Since men cannot have duty sex really I don't think it would be easy to explain what feels like to a woman.


With all due respect, this statement is just flat wrong. Take it from a man who can and does have duty sex with his wife. And it's not just limited to oral or manual sex either. Granted, it does require some mental gymnastics, so it may be more difficult for a man to do than a woman. But I assure you that a man is perfectly able to understand what it feels like to provide duty sex.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Big Dude I just want you to know you are heard. I am sorry you have to know what duty sex feels like. Sorry for the notion that few men understand this. Thank you for shedding light on this, that men have duty sex to. I do hear you and I am sorry you have an understanding of this.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

jld said:


> But isn't it also a form of abuse to pressure someone into having sex when they are not comfortable with it?


I suppose that would be a abusive. That would indeed be a sad marriage: both sides sexually abusive!!

If my W were not comfortable having sex, she should tell me, then either open the marriage or divorce me. 
But she's never given any indication to this effect, but please keep asking me this same question, because by about the 10th time I may change my answer.

Do you consider it abusive to pressure a spouse into "asking about her day" when I really just don't feel in the mood?


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I'm not implying that your wife is doing just duty sex. But I find your implication that a woman just doing duty sex is on the same line as fixing the house or having conversations with your spouse more than a tad disturbing.


Ok I retract my examples of house fixing and working because (as you so sharply pointed out) that also benefits me. I would point out that normal sexual relations also benefit both parties so I believe if you want to take the position that sex is all about me, then these other normally-mutual things that I do deserve greater credit.


I stand by my example of "tell me about your day" as a grossly imbalanced need that is comparable to our disparity in sex drive. I've seen studies that women are 2X to 3X more verbal than men in a given day. This is certainly the case at my house. In computer software terms, my communication style would be called Exception Handling. This means that everything is presumed to be working just fine unless some remarkable bad thing happens which required communicating the event. When things are working smoothly, I rarely feel compelled to communicate that fact.

My W is NOT like that at all. She wants to get texts/emails during the day. I do this for her, not because I need it, but because it makes her feel connected. I would NOT do this of my own choice. Is she abusing me by asking me to do something I have no real desire for?


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Big Dude said:


> With all due respect, this statement is just flat wrong. Take it from a man who can and does have duty sex with his wife. And it's not just limited to oral or manual sex either. Granted, it does require some mental gymnastics, so it may be more difficult for a man to do than a woman. But I assure you that a man is perfectly able to understand what it feels like to provide duty sex.


:iagree:


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Since men cannot have duty sex really I don't think it would be easy to explain what feels like to a woman.


This is not true. My husband has duty sex with me! In fact, I got some duty sex last night. It's no different than a woman having duty sex. 

:scratchhead:


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:


When I read that men can't have duty sex, I immediately thought "I bet Curious would disagree."


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You are right. A man can do this. *I've yet to meet a man who will give his wife a bj or handjob just for her and not expect something for himself*, let alone do it for long periods of time (meaning a few times a week for months/years).
> 
> Now there probably are a very few men who do this. Even fewer who would do not on a regular basis when they have no sex drive or have reasons that they cannot have sex.


Hi, nice to meet you! I can and do get my W off for no reason from time to time. I don't expect anything in return, but I will concede that I know something will come my way at some point, and I love getting her off. So, it's not entirely selfless.

As to doing it for long periods of time. I guess that depends. If I was giving and giving and never getting, I would probably stop at some point. If I became unable to have sex, I think I would still try to satisfy her as often as she needed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> You are right. A man can do this. I've yet to meet a man who will give his wife a bj or handjob just for her and not expect something for himself, let alone do it for long periods of time (meaning a few times a week for months/years).
> 
> Now there probably are a very few men who do this. Even fewer who would do not on a regular basis when they have no sex drive or have reasons that they cannot have sex.





I Don't Know said:


> Hi, nice to meet you! I can and do get my W off for no reason from time to time. I don't expect anything in return, but I will concede that I know something will come my way at some point, and I love getting her off. So, it's not entirely selfless.


Note in my quote above, I acknowledged that there probably some men who do this. 


I Don't Know said:


> As to doing it for long periods of time. I guess that depends. If I was giving and giving and never getting, I would probably stop at some point.


Apparently there are people who have lost their sex drive. It seems that women who have lost their sex drive are expected to put out sexually for their husband even if they never get anything out of it. I’ve read comments on TAM by men saying things like “How hard is it for her to just lay there and spread her legs?” This is the type of thing I’m talking about. 

Now I’ve never been LD. The only times I’ve ever said no to sex is when I was seriously ill or extremely tired. I initiate very often. So I have never given duty sex. I’ve never had a man give me duty sex either.

Now I have had sexual experiences that were terrible because something was very wrong emotionally between both of us at that particular time. These few episodes were traumatic on the emotional level.

I have had a husband who is LD and refused to have sex for long periods of time because he would not do duty sex. I had another husband who simply chose to make our marriage sexless for years because it was a great way to punish me for breathing.



I Don't Know said:


> If I became unable to have sex, I think I would still try to satisfy her as often as she needed.


See I think that if I was in a good relationship and had no drive, I’d still want to have the intimacy. So I would most likely still be sexual.

But I’ve heard people who are very LD and/or who lose their drive say that they get to the point where they hate to be touched by anyone. I don’t know about this because I’ve never been there. In my mind all I can do is equate it to the few times that I had a bad experience and know that until that whatever caused the bad experience gets fixed it’s hard to want sex with that person.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You are right. A man can do this. I've yet to meet a man who will give his wife a bj or handjob just for her and not expect something for himself, let alone do it for long periods of time (meaning a few times a week for months/years).
> 
> Now there probably are a very few men who do this. Even fewer who would do not on a regular basis when they have no sex drive or have reasons that they cannot have sex.


Women. I need you to listen. We CANNOT do this.

The reason is say you wanted a husband to get you off for 6 months straight without giving him any thing in return. 

Over those 6 months you have retrained his response so that his testosterone and desire will have dropped. Because he will have to be used to being close to "sex" and not getting anything.

You really do not want to do this to a man. Some men are wired differently, but there are enough who know what I'm talking about.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

EleGirl, yeah I saw that you said there probably are very few who would do it. I was just putting it out there that we DO exist. And I admit it's not all just for her benefit, I love doing it.

As far as loss of sex drive, like you I've never been in that situation so I really don't know how it would go down IF it ever happened. I'd like to think I would still want to, but I just don't know for sure.

I HATE receiving duty sex, did that for 12ish years. Left that situation. Not doing it again. In fact, my W will offer up sometimes even when she's not interested in O. It's hard for me to really accept that she does WANT to do it, even if she doesn't want to O. But, I get it. I love the closeness and I would make love to her even if I wasn't able to O for some reason. There have been a couple of times when it just wasn't going to happen for me, but it was still great. I just wasn't sure when to stop. 

Sorry to hear about your X's. I'm glad you got out.


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

treyvion said:


> Women. I need you to listen. We CANNOT do this.
> 
> The reason is say you wanted a husband to get you off for 6 months straight without giving him any thing in return.
> 
> ...


Perpetual BB?! Yikes! 

Yes, as a long term voluntary/imposed situation it would be hard to deal with. If I had something like ED that's a different matter.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> When I read that men can't have duty sex, I immediately thought "I bet Curious would disagree."


You know me well!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

tommyr said:


> I suppose that would be a abusive. That would indeed be a sad marriage: both sides sexually abusive!!
> 
> If my W were not comfortable having sex, she should tell me, then either open the marriage or divorce me.
> But she's never given any indication to this effect, but please keep asking me this same question, because by about the 10th time I may change my answer.
> ...


Lol, it really would not be meaningful if you don't want to know about her day.

And if you really do not care enough about her to meet her emotional needs, there would be consequences in the marriage. Same as withholding intercourse, I guess.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I can't even hug or kiss my husband without him trying to get some. 

We're in a really bad place in our marriage where I just need to be LOVED and respected, not groped or pinched or grabbed. And he can't do that. He can't just hold me without wanting to grab me somewhere within 3 minutes.

It gets old. I have stated my needs and the reasons for them and he won't listen or comply for a while. 

I never denied this man. For four years of our 7 I was THE WIFE in every way. But he has caused some crap to go down and I can't feel sexy like I used to when I just don't trust him.

It sucks.

When he voiced his needs, I met them (not sexually, but other things). I dunno, man....this marriage is sucking my life force. lol.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Tg, it sounds like you give more than you receive. Is that a pattern in your relationships?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

LOL  My story is long. A pattern? Yes.

My story is written somewhere...well, the update.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

I Don't Know said:


> Perpetual BB?! Yikes!
> 
> Yes, as a long term voluntary/imposed situation it would be hard to deal with. If I had something like ED that's a different matter.


You didnt' have ED going into it, but being "used" as this retrained you and ED creeps in...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Do you think you can change it? Expect more from your next partner, and be willing to drop the relationship if he can't meet those expectations?

I ask, because some women cannot. They just give and give and give. And a selfish man will take and take and take.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

jld said:


> Do you think you can change it? Expect more from your next partner, and be willing to drop the relationship if he can't meet those expectations?
> 
> I ask, because some women cannot. They just give and give and give. And a selfish man will take and take and take.


That's all you can do. Drop them early when they will not meet your expectation or put boundary their or hurdle to jump over.


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## ricsix (Jun 24, 2014)

That's just funny, but very true.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

treyvion said:


> Women. I need you to listen. We CANNOT do this.
> 
> The reason is say you wanted a husband to get you off for 6 months straight without giving him any thing in return.
> 
> ...


No body was suggesting that any woman wants this. Instead I was comparing the idea that many men seem to think it's just fine to expect duty sex. Well, then if men are expected to have duty sex then the same expectation should be held for men.

The exact same thing happens when a woman give a lot of duty sex. The more she is giving duty sex, the more she is trained to not respond. If she is already LD, or she is not wanting sex because her needs are not being met duty sex is going make things a lot worse in the long run.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I can't even hug or kiss my husband without him trying to get some.
> 
> We're in a really bad place in our marriage where I just need to be LOVED and respected, not groped or pinched or grabbed. And he can't do that. He can't just hold me without wanting to grab me somewhere within 3 minutes.
> 
> ...


In view of how sexless marriage is often spoken about on TAM, what do you think are the chances that he's complaining to some friends that you won't have sex with him? And then they go on about how terrible it is that you expect him to jump through all kinds of hoops?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> No body was suggesting that any woman wants this. Instead I was comparing the idea that many men seem to think it's just fine to expect duty sex. Well, then if men are expected to have duty sex then the same expectation should be held for men.
> 
> The exact same thing happens when a woman give a lot of duty sex. The more she is giving duty sex, the more she is trained to not respond. If she is already LD, or she is not wanting sex because her needs are not being met duty sex is going make things a lot worse in the long run.


I have to agree big time on this. If the lady isn't being satisfied sexually, she isn't going to want to keep on doing it. If the lady isn't being satisfied emotionally, she isn't going to want to keep giving on the emotional side of things. I don't know why men seem to think that women are different from them in that aspect. 

Why on earth would I want to keep giving to someone who doesn't give to me? Why on earth would I want to keep having sex with someone who doesn't take the time to learn about me sexually/emotionally? It's the same reason MEN get pissy about the lady not putting in enough emotional effort or sexual effort.

In every scenario, there are always exceptions (like gold diggers/moochers/bait 'n switches...etc That's when it doesn't matter because no one cared to begin with.

However, for the most part people who are in love - which is how it is in the beginning - want to give to each other and want to see each other happy. It's when one partner starts getting lazy and greedy that things start to slide. It doesn't matter which gender starts it, the end result is the same- the giving partner is going to stop all of the fun stuff and only give the boring/emotionless stuff because that's all they know in that relationship.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

that_girl said:


> I can't even hug or kiss my husband without him trying to get some.
> 
> We're in a really bad place in our marriage where I just need to be LOVED and respected, not groped or pinched or grabbed. And he can't do that. He can't just hold me without wanting to grab me somewhere within 3 minutes.
> 
> ...



I suggested this on another thread...only because it has worked for hubs and I ....could you write your hubs a letter?


Men in love with their wives want to connect deeply on a physical level..that's how they express intimacy....but I do understand, as a woman, our heart leads to our happy spot...if our heart isn't feeling it our happy spot dries up...

Can I ask how long you have been married?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> In view of how sexless marriage is often spoken about on TAM, what do you think are the chances that he's complaining to some friends that you won't have sex with him? And then they go on about how terrible it is that you expect him to jump through all kinds of hoops?


He has no friends that I know of. If he talks like that, then oh well. How many hoops have I jumped through to be smashed down. How many times did I say I love him and he just smiled and say, "sweet."

If he's talking to people, I don't care. lol. I know what I've done for this marriage. I know I rocked his world unconditionally for 2 years before he left me because he "wasn't happy". He just walked out. Remember that awesome time? Then we tried to make things better. He asked if I can MAKE MY VAGINA TIGHTER after he moved home. I swear he's cheated, he won't admit it and says he just wanted it tighter. He asked DURING SEX. I got a complex and started to hate my own body.

He knows what he's done. I cannot have sex with someone who doesn't KNOW ME or has any drive to know me.

I talked all the time with no answer. I stopped talking.

I just don't care if he's hurting right now or think i'm holding sex from him. I'm holding sex because right now, sex with him makes me feel dirty and used like a wh0re. My body doesn't even respond...it doesn't get wet. He never cared about that and would tear into me, as I was dry as a bone.

So...if he wants to play the victim...I don't care.

I am done with empty sex. OMG so done. I've had it most my life. He won't do anything to make things better...he just wants to use my body.

He told his ex (when we were separated) that I got pregnant on purpose to trick him into marrying me  :rofl: ( i saw the chat messages. She laughed and said I was a crazy white chick and he agreed.) That's a good one because the night we conceived, I told him I was ovulating and he didn't care. He even said, "Maybe we'll make a baby...." Yea. Lies. We didn't even marry until she was 7 months old and he and I decided together to get married (MISTAKE NUMBER 5!) He can lie about me. I know who I am.

We've been married 5 years (last friday)...together for 7.

I used to write letters, then he said it was too much to read and he never read the last one.

Yep.
I've told him all of this. He knows what I'm thinking about all of this. I'm just trying to find some clarity. He and I are good as friends. I don't hate him. But right now I need to either heal or move on...and having sex before I'm ready--- feeling pushed into sex because HE WANTS IT is not going to help. Everything I did in this marriage was FOR HIM, before last year. Everything. It was sad and pathetic how I catered to him while he couldn't decide if he loved me or wanted me or if he EVER HAD.

So...now I do for me. And my kids.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

that_girl said:


> He has no friends that I know of. If he talks like that, then oh well. How many hoops have I jumped through to be smashed down. How many times did I say I love him and he just smiled and say, "sweet."
> 
> If he's talking to people, I don't care. lol. I know what I've done for this marriage. He knows what he's done. I cannot have sex with someone who doesn't KNOW ME or has any drive to know me.
> 
> ...




I dont' want to be mean, but there are two sides to every story.....I only say this because none of us are perfect spouses.....what would he share if he was on TAM?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

The last time, before he left, he said he loved me but that he never LOVED me, didn't want our life, didn't want our marriage....wanted out. Never wanted me, just felt obligated because of our baby.

Now he says he was lying because he was just "not happy".

Oh well. Words hurt.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

over20 said:


> I dont' want to be mean, but there are two sides to every story.....I only say this because none of us are perfect spouses.....what would he share if he was on TAM?


I'm not perfect. God no. But I tried to make things better. I made myself better. Therapy isn't cheap and I worked my issues out until I was better.

It would be interesting to see what he would share. I wonder if it's that I stopped doing all the things I used to do and he doesn't know why.

Who cares. What is your point? My story is long and pathetic and while I have faults in it, he is now the one causing all the shet.

When your spouse says, "YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE ME! I AM THIS CLOSE TO BEING DONE! Get some therapy for your deep childhood issues because they are ruining this family" and you say NOTHING and do nothing to fix things? Except smile more and bring chocolate...please. 

It's empty.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

over20 said:


> I dont' want to be mean, but there are two sides to every story.....I only say this because none of us are perfect spouses.....what would he share if he was on TAM?


But I wish he'd share something. All I get is "I don't know" to anything I ask.

I have spent so much time trying to help him. I'm burned out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I don't blame you. I would not want to be with someone like that, either.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

I see, maybe" I don't know" is his cry for help?....maybe he doesnt want to burden you with his past trauma...so he closes himself off to you to try to protect you....in his mind this might make sense....:scratchhead:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

We've had the same talk about us for years.

He doesn't offer anything...won't even own his faults. It's tiring.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

over20 said:


> I see, maybe" I don't know" is his cry for help?....maybe he doesnt want to burden you with his past trauma...so he closes himself off to you to try to protect you....in his mind this might make sense....:scratchhead:


I appreciate your concern in this matter. But I have tackled this from many angles. He has told me of some things and says he doesn't remember anything else. The things he's told me alone say he needs to get therapy to unleash the pain.

I wrote out about 10 therapists numbers. Did everything but call the people. He said he called but had 1000 reasons why it wouldn't work. He's too busy. The therapists don't work with his issues. wtf? Ugh.

He knows he needs help. He won't get it. So...that's that. My question used to be how do I help him? What can I do for him? now i wonder how much longer I can live in a marriage that doesn't fill any of my cup at all?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> Thank you. That brought tears to my eyes. I just so badly want to be heard and understood. I am not a bad person, I am not a wife trying to be cruel by with holding sex. I a, a wife trying to get over some serious sh it and with a husband who doesn't get the big picture.


Hi Big Mama,

Let me first say that I am sorry for what you went through. My ex also is a survivor of abuse (and deprivation), so I saw what it does to people (both the abused and the secondary victims).

Your comment about the "big picture" caught my eye. I think the big picture might be the issue here.

What is your goal for therapy? What sort of marriage do you envision for the future? You portrayed yourself as comfortable with his drive before marriage; do you intend to restore your marriage to that point, or is that behind you forever?

Whatever the answer is, you need to know it, be honest with yourself, and tell your husband. If you are going to work on overcoming your abuse and being the wife he wants, I'm sure he would love to hear that. If not, then he needs to hear that also so he can plan accordingly.

What is coming through from your posts is that he is bad person who does XYZ, and you are a victim who deserved patience and understanding. While that may be true, the way it is presented makes it sound somewhat like you expect more improvement and accomodation from him than from yourself. If he is picking that up from you, it's natural that he would feel marginalized. 

It's best to get your expectations laid out up front and hear his as well, so you can deal with this openly before resentment continues to set in.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> I disagree, but thank you for taking the time to respond. That is what is so great about a site like this everyone is entitled to there opinion right or not.


Really? You are okay with "hooking" him with sex that you did not like (and probably knew you would not keep up)?

I am genuinely curious to hear your reasoning. My ex had said she was comfortable with doing that to me, which boggles my mind.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

that_girl said:


> I appreciate your concern in this matter. But I have tackled this from many angles. He has told me of some things and says he doesn't remember anything else. The things he's told me alone say he needs to get therapy to unleash the pain.
> 
> I wrote out about 10 therapists numbers. Did everything but call the people. He said he called but had 1000 reasons why it wouldn't work. He's too busy. The therapists don't work with his issues. wtf? Ugh.
> 
> He knows he needs help. He won't get it. So...that's that. My question used to be how do I help him? What can I do for him? now i wonder how much longer I can live in a marriage that doesn't fill any of my cup at all?


I see. I cannot advise or suggest any further....from your posts though you sound very strong and pro marriage...I just want you to know while you are struggling....we all struggle.....hang in there...after the dark comes the SON...


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Or the sun, in my case. 

I don't believe in Christianity.

Nor do I have a son. lol.


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## over20 (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you for sharing...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ladybird said:


> I will tell you a little something about sex in marriage. Sex helps create a bond, between two people evetually that bond will break and what will you have then?
> 
> I will tell you.. Your husband will resent you, he will stop trying to make you happy he will stop meeting your needs all together, and I do mean all of them. He will also stop pestering you for sex.. He will meet his own needs or find someone who is willing, until he grows tired and leaves.
> 
> I strongly belive in a marriage, there is no such thing as I, it doesnt exsist. I dont mean to be harsh, but this is the reality of what will happen.


Agree. This is how I felt. Let me stress that I do not have Asperger's and I did not deprive my ex of the basics of life. 

She made it clear that she hooked me with sex, did not intend to pretend to like it, and I was expected to be diligent and loving in meeting her needs daily even while she was refusing to meet mine.

The sad truth is life does not work that way. I completely understand my ex not liking sex with what she experienced. But nothing makes it okay to lie to me about her attraction level just so she did not worry about being alone and poor. She knew that a young lady who does not like sex seeking a young guy is not going to have a whole lot of luck, but that's life.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

jld said:


> Lol, it really would not be meaningful if you don't want to know about her day.
> 
> And if you really do not care enough about her to meet her emotional needs, there would be consequences in the marriage. Same as withholding intercourse, I guess.


I didn't say _I don't want to know about her day_, I said her *need* for constant communication far exceeds mine. She is HT (high talk) while I am LT (low talk). 

The tone of your reply (_lol... not be meaningful.. really do not care enough_) correctly paints me as a fool if I would ration out such a *basic, simple, free, obvious, loving, expected, satisfying* act as frequent communication with my W. (seeing any parallels with sexual needs?) The fact that she needs far more than I do in this area is irrelevant. I should step up to meet her level, rather than her stepping down to my level.

Well guess what? I do step up to her level. In the middle of my insane work day, I pull out my phone and send her a *duty text* message. Same as when she steps up for me with *duty sex*.

The thread asks Who takes care of who's needs?
In my marriage we both do and this often means one partner stepping up even if the underlying desire is not self generated.


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

I just cant relate. for pushing 40 years now My wife and I have followed the philosophy that if either was horny the other would not deny them. And we never have. We have had some very though times but this promise never failed us. 

How is it so hard to be considerate of your spouse. I just don't understand.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Stonewall said:


> I just cant relate. for pushing 40 years now My wife and I have followed the philosophy that if either was horny the other would not deny them. And we never have. We have had some very though times but this promise never failed us.
> 
> How is it so hard to be considerate of your spouse. I just don't understand.


And that's how it should be.  That's how my marriage was...before the bullcrap.

And I hate duty texts LOL Amg. I don't even reply.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Big Mama said:


> I know that if my ways don't ever change this is what will happen. But I also know if he wants me to have more then "duty sex" then he has to give me room to heal and grow. That is all I really want. It has been a year since I told him about the rape, and 4-5 months since I told him about the CSA. I know a year on limited sex is not easy for him. But what if just maybe he left me alone and let me come to him for it for a change, when I felt like I needed it, when I felt like I could handle it, wouldn't that be so much more productive.


I agree. I know its hard, but you cant let it define you, you cant let it control you. You have to live your life. And I say this because I was raped at 16 by an ex boyfrind who wouldnt take no for an answer, he thought he was entiled. He wasnt nice about it I had bruises all over my body he over powered me, easily. And held me down. . I really struggled for a while after it happened. 

Then a funny thing happened I accepted the fact that it happened and there was nothing I could do to change it. And instead of letting it rule my life I took control. I forgave him for what he did and that made a huge difference, I could move on from it...


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

DTO said:


> Really? You are okay with "hooking" him with sex that you did not like (and probably knew you would not keep up)?
> 
> I am genuinely curious to hear your reasoning. My ex had said she was comfortable with doing that to me, which boggles my mind.


 I didn't hook up for a one night stand, I didn't hook up for repeated one night stands. He had already proposed and we were engaged to be married. We had sex and there were no fire works. Being the inexperienced person I was, this was no surprise but I in the coming weeks we had sex again and there were still no fire works. I remember thinking this is the strangest thing I have ever heard of, why do people like sex so much. 

As time progressed we would get a hotel for the night, and that is when I began to feel used .You take a wh*ore to a hotel he would always take me to a hotel. I didn't really want to do, and feeling like a wh*ore didn't help. But I did it anyway. By that point I didn't really want to but I was like "What ever, it seems to make him so happy." As we got closer to the wedding day and the stress of wedding planning and the stress I had of collage and living at home and life in general I started hating to have sex on weekends. I tried to say no, I tried to convey that I didn't want to have sex this weekend, but he started doing what the past bf did. He would beg, plead, wine and dine me and make me feel like I owed him now and like in the past I learned it only takes a few min just let the guy have it. And that is what I did. So I was in the same position as I was in the past. Which was not a good position. 

This man knew I was used good already, (on a tiny scale compared to the huge scale that it really was), he was still willing to marry me. I was not in a good family situation and he was a "way out" for me. I couldn't let sex stand in the way. So I put out most of the times he wanted to it. If I didn't have sex, like most men I knew, I thought he would leave. 

IF that makes me a bad person then I guess I am a bad person. 

I had sex when I didn't want to and the advantage to me was that he didn't leave. I was 18 and he was 19. We were kids looking back at things now. We dated a little over a year before we were married. 

I hope this help answer your question a little, or at least gives you insight to my situation. 

But for someone to say " You are a bad person and your husband is a bad person" is incorrect. You don't know me. You know what little I have shared about my sexuality and the tangled life of a teenager. I'm 40 now, have lived and learned, but I am not a bad person. And my husband as much as he fails he tries and he is a difficult person to live with but he is not a bad person either.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Big Mama, please just shrug off the replies that don't seem helpful. We all bring our own experiences to TAM, and our own shortcomings. 

Just take what helps you, and leave the rest. 

I can't remember if you said you are both in counseling, but I hope you are. It sounds like you each have issues to resolve.

Of course you are not a bad person. He is not, either. We are all imperfect. Being able to communicate fully, and empathize with one another, will likely heal your marriage.

There will probably need to be some compromise. 

Have you decided how you might be able to compromise on meeting his sexual desires/needs?


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

DTO said:


> Hi Big Mama,
> 
> Your comment about the "big picture" caught my eye. I think the big picture might be the issue here.
> 
> ...



My goal for therapy is for me to overcome my stuff and him to over come his and for us both to grow together and get stronger and to have a happy healthy marriage where we are best friends and lovers as well. 

I was never happy with his sex drive, it has never been compatible. But I have never dealt with the rape and CSA issues either. I would at least like to be able to find a happy medium between meeting his needs and mine to. Right now that is not happening. 

I do expect quite a lot of change from my H. Spousal abuse is not acceptable and that must change. He has changed a lot and continues to change. If he were not trying to change his ways or not interested then I would not remain married to him. 

I have changed tremendously over the past 2 years. I have been working on taking my self out of the father daughter role we were in. I no longer ask for permission to go to the mail box, or to use the phone. I make statements ex Clen"I'm going to the mail box, be right back." I am learning to call him on his stuff and not retreat when he is less then approachable. I am trying to over come panicking when I hear a loud truck that sounds like his. I have learned not to walk away when my H tries to touch me in ways I don't like, instead to deal with it, or say "How about you stand behind me and hug me." Over the years I have changed to accommodate his needs to the maximum of my potential. He has OCD and I have adjusted lots of what I do to meet his needs. Cleaning, organizing, detailed descriptions of where I am going. (Aspergers need, not OCD need)


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

jld - Thank you for your continued support. My H and I are in T. 

AN UPDATE: I had T this week and I gave to the T the print off of the thread I started here. She was supportive and told me that I did what I should do. This is a time of healing and I need to learn to respect me and heal me. I was successful in standing up for my self and she could tell because he stopped talking and he didn't make me feel like I needed to have sex over the weekend that followed. 

I am learning to recognize my need and recognize when I cannot deal with his need. Some times I can deal with his need and can assist him with that other times I am not in a mental position to handle any sexual activity. The PTSD is to great, the mental issues are not going to allow sex to be productive of either one of us. Other times I am triggered and on the brink of tears from the stresses of family and the demands of kids, and dealing with my own thoughts and questions surrounding CSA. Some times if I have nightmares they leave me shaken up for days and that is not a time to approach me wanting sex.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> Ladies I need your opinion. I think ladies will have a better way to relate to this topic but guys you are welcome to chime in to.
> 
> Here is the issue....I don’t understand and I am confused. When does it become OK for me to take care of my needs and my H to take care of his needs. (we do have sex from time to time, maybe once every two weeks so don't think we never do it) I am talking about sex here. My needs got met and so did his last weekend, yep we had sex. But I am good for the next few weeks. The thoughts of a repeat of last weekend is just not something I am even game for this coming weekend. I know my H's needs are different then mine but why do I have to take care of HIS need. I take care of my needs and if they do not involve him that is fine with me. But he wants his needs to involve me.
> When I told him I just had no desire to do it again he was disappointed. He wanted to know “what about what he needed?” I told him “what about what I needed” (or didn't need) his answer was “But don’t you like to see me happy” I told him yes, but is it my job to make you happy week after week even though I am not interested. I told him I didn't want it to be a weekly put out session. A time where I meet his needs every week because I am his wife and that is my job. His response was “I didn't say that.” I told him that was how it felt. He asked me is 4 times a month expecting to much from my wife.
> ...



For me it comes down to this. Is it ok with you if he gets his sexual needs meet by another woman ? If you do not let him then aren't you telling him that he is only allowed to get his sexual needs my by you ? If you don't want to meet his needs and you will not let him get his needs meet by someone else what do you expect him to do ? Why don't you want to satisfy him sexually ? 

You have a very low sex drive. That alone should not stop you from wanting to give your husband a satisfying sex life. It is not unreasonable for your husband to want to have sex more than twice a month. It is not unreasonable for him to want and expect more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Stoney- Are you saying since I choose to marry this man I should just let him use my body for his own sexual needs to be met. Anytime he wants to have sex I should let him have his way with me. 

I get tired of dealing with his constant advances. He humps me, he gropes me as I am cooking supper, he grabs my boobs, he rubs against me and grinds on me when I am trying to do dishes. So I am supposed to just let him do that. 

I am trying to get out of the mindset that I have been stuck in, that I am an object for the meeting of mens needs. I have never had any respect for myself and I have always meet the needs of others and I am trying to find the happy medium between my needs and someone elses. 

At this point it is very hard to recognize my needs. I have pushed my needs down for so long I no longer recognize them and am uncomfortable with them kinda. 

I am not saying he may have another woman, I am saying he may have his very own hand. He may view porn if that helps, he may buy his own sex toys to meet his needs if that is necessary or of his wishing. There are many avenues in which his needs can be met with in our marriage. 

If he wants me to come to him willingly and not out of duty then he is going to have to be patient. You can't have it both ways all the time. He has learned if he will give me time (2 weeks)I will come around and I recognize the need about that often.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Then the slippery slope from once every two week, to once a month to sexless.

If you can't find love for your hubby you should leave him if you are neglecting and not meeting him in the middle. Chances are you are already at his edge and making his life unfulfilled.

He should not have to "get lucky" with you his wife AND you should relish that not question it...and enjoy it.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

Just finished reading the entire thread...

A very simple observation for the OP: First and foremost, your primary responsibility is to your own psychological well-being. This ALWAYS supersedes your responsibilities to your family, your children, your partner. So you enter IC (as you have done) and you determine what you need to heal. You discuss this with your DH and your family, and you figure out how to make this work. There will be some give and take during this process. If your DH decides he cannot work with you on this, your only response is ... " I do love you and I am truly sorry you feel that way. I need this to heal."

He may stay, he may leave ... This choice is his. Kindest Regards-
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Thank you very much. I have never taken care of me. I have to get better for me. I have to get better to be who he needs me to be, or to be who the next man needs me to be. If I never fix me I will be no good to anyone, not even to myself. I must take care of me at the moment. I hope he can understand, I think it will be worth the wait. I try to meet his need. I am not some monster who never has sex, I just need to on my terms for a little bit.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> Stoney- Are you saying since I choose to marry this man I should just let him use my body for his own sexual needs to be met. Anytime he wants to have sex I should let him have his way with me.
> 
> I get tired of dealing with his constant advances. He humps me, he gropes me as I am cooking supper, he grabs my boobs, he rubs against me and grinds on me when I am trying to do dishes. So I am supposed to just let him do that.
> 
> ...



I am not saying you should let him use you. You have every right to not let him do anything you do not want him to do. But you are his wife. He is sexually turned on by you. He is supposed to grope you and fondle you and rub against you when you are doing the dishes. You are also supposed to want your husband to do those things and not feel used by him. 

Masturbation and porn and sex toys are in no way a substitute for a fulfilling sexual relationship with your partner. If they meet the sexual needs of any man we wouldn't need women.there are many ways to satisfy his needs within your marriage and all of them involve his wife. You do not necessarily have to have intercourse with him to have sex. There is oral or masturbation or talking dirty to him while using toys on him. 

There is nothing worse for a man than to be with a woman that does not want you sexually. It is kind of like a woman being with a man who does not want to be with her emotionally. You both are supposed to want to fulfill the others needs. Not feel like you have to. 

You should never do anything you do not want to do sexually. Then no one will ever be able to use you. Think about and explore what you want and like sexually and do that with your husband. Once sex becomes about pleasing you then your sex drive will increase and so will your interest in sex with your husband. Sex should always be about pleasing the woman. When a man satisfies a woman's every desire she will always desire him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

stoney1215 said:


> I am not saying you should let him use you. You have every right to not let him do anything you do not want him to do. But you are his wife. He is sexually turned on by you. He is supposed to grope you and fondle you and rub against you when you are doing the dishes. You are also supposed to want your husband to do those things and not feel used by him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




There, That is where I have misunderstanding. No one has ever touched me in appropriate ways and I perceive everything as an attack of sorts. I had NO IDEA men are supposed to rub on ya when your doing dishes or cooking at the stove. I thought he was trying to pester me to get it on with me. I want to feel love and happiness and love when he does those things to me not attacked and used or like there is a motive behind what he is doing. I don't know how to get my brain to make that switch. 

Any body gt any ideas on how to get the ole brain to see what was once a threat is now common form of married communication. I just didn't know. THANK YOU. 

I still don't know how to handle him doing that. But at least now I know it is common practice.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> There, That is where I have misunderstanding. No one has ever touched me in appropriate ways and I perceive everything as an attack of sorts. I had NO IDEA men are supposed to rub on ya when your doing dishes or cooking at the stove. I thought he was trying to pester me to get it on with me. I want to feel love and happiness and love when he does those things to me not attacked and used or like there is a motive behind what he is doing. I don't know how to get my brain to make that switch.
> 
> Any body gt any ideas on how to get the ole brain to see what was once a threat is now common form of married communication. I just didn't know. THANK YOU.
> 
> I still don't know how to handle him doing that. But at least now I know it is common practice.


No its all about sex..every touch, every look every conversation and when you don't provide it later or within a timeframe issues surface...reality of all marriages

SEX is the glue of marriage and you are flirting with disaster questioning it in this thread

He did not marry you not to have sex...remember that.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> There, That is where I have misunderstanding. No one has ever touched me in appropriate ways and I perceive everything as an attack of sorts. I had NO IDEA men are supposed to rub on ya when your doing dishes or cooking at the stove. I thought he was trying to pester me to get it on with me. I want to feel love and happiness and love when he does those things to me not attacked and used or like there is a motive behind what he is doing. I don't know how to get my brain to make that switch.
> 
> Any body gt any ideas on how to get the ole brain to see what was once a threat is now common form of married communication. I just didn't know. THANK YOU.
> 
> I still don't know how to handle him doing that. But at least now I know it is common practice.


I don't know anything about your marriage but for this i will assume that it is an otherwise loving relationship. Anytime your husband or wife looks at you and gets turned on , finds you desirable so much they can't keep their hands off of you , and still thinks you are hot when you are sweating over a hot stove or elbow deep in dishes that is definitely a good thing. 
Once you allow yourself to open up , think about , and explore yourself and your sexuality you should have no problem seeing his constant games of grab ass as a turn on instead of a nuisance. But like i said before take time for yourself to think about sex and what turns you on sexually. Understand that that being turned on by what ever does it for you is ok and normal and good. Then share it with your husband and let him make sex about you not him. When he makes you feel like that you will want to make it about both of you. You deserve to have a great and fun and enjoyable sex life with the man you love. It was taken away from you by men in your past. Your husband is not those men. Allow him to give back to you what other men took from you. He will thank you for trusting and believing in him enough to let him make you a woman again. After all it takes a man to allow a woman to be a woman. And it takes a woman to allow a man to be a man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, so touches adn humping me like a hor*ney dog is about sex, not just because. GREAT :\ 

But think you guys for the encouragement you have provided. I hate that I am at a loss here, that no one choose to share these words of wisdom with me before I got married. I was raised in a bubble practically. Sexuality was not encouraged, pregnant people were nasty cause we all know how they got that way married or not. I was raised in a strict christian family, and my parents never showed affection. If romance, kissing or anything was on TV, we had to change channels. 

It's no wonder I don't have a good foundation for love. Throw in some abuse along the way and that being my education for sex and love, good grief.

I'd have thought by 40 I would have this stuff figured out, Sex as well as life.Man was I wrong.


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Trying2figureitout said:


> No its all about sex..every touch, every look every conversation and when you don't provide it later or within a timeframe issues surface...reality of all marriages
> 
> SEX is the glue of marriage and you are flirting with disaster questioning it in this thread
> 
> He did not marry you not to have sex...remember that.


I hope he didn't marry me just to have guaranteed sex. Sometimes I feel like he did. HE got married so he would have a continual bed mate. Guaranteed sex forever. 

He already told me "The only reason I got married was so I would have someone to fix meals for me." He told me that in front of the kids.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Big Mama said:


> I hope he didn't marry me just to have guaranteed sex. Sometimes I feel like he did. HE got married so he would have a continual bed mate. Guaranteed sex forever.
> 
> He already told me "The only reason I got married was so I would have someone to fix meals for me." He told me that in front of the kids.


I think he married you for meals and sex. Try not to get focused on how he said it, or with whom. Try to just focus on what he shared with you.

Most men get married at least in part for sex. They almost all expect it regularly.

Big Mama, how much do you think you could compromise with your dh? How much are you willing to give?


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

You are right. I know he didn't get married to become a monk. I am sure he feels like one sometimes. 

I like sex about every 2 weeks. Which I understand for him can be a long 2 weeks. At this time I am trying to heal some very deep wounds. It was a year ago I in March that I told my H about my past issues. 25 years of carrying the truth alone is along time. It can't be over come in 12 months. Sex every two weeks is a huge improvement. At one point at the urging of the T, NO SEX period, was in order. And that is what my H is recovering from. 

I guess like a kid in a candy store who has been locked out for a couple months, now that it is open for business, he wants it all, only to get little, to little. 

But a little is better then none right. (unless he goes to another candy store)


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Does he want it once a week? Could you upgrade to that?


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

We have tried that and from time to time, we have had sex once a week, but we are trying to avoid it being a quota. Which is what it once was. He was like OK, it is Sunday night, I'm going to bed in two hours, when are you going to come to me. UMMMMM with that attitude NEVER!!!

Sex is a gift, not an expected demand. It is earned, it is deserved, it is a gift to be given, not a spoiled brat saying "Give me my gift NOW."


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Big Mama said:


> We have tried that and from time to time, we have had sex once a week, but we are trying to avoid it being a quota. Which is what it once was. He was like OK, it is Sunday night, I'm going to bed in two hours, when are you going to come to me. UMMMMM with that attitude NEVER!!!
> 
> Sex is a gift, not an expected demand. It is earned, it is deserved, it is a gift to be given, not a spoiled brat saying "Give me my gift NOW."


I understand what you are saying, Big Mama. But is that attitude really serving you?

How about an attitude of humility, of gratitude, of giving? 

Does marriage really work any other way?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Big Mama said:


> I hope he didn't marry me just to have guaranteed sex. Sometimes I feel like he did. HE got married so he would have a continual bed mate. Guaranteed sex forever.
> 
> He already told me "The only reason I got married was so I would have someone to fix meals for me." He told me that in front of the kids.


He DID NOT marry you NOT TO HAVE SEX!

Get over the attitude or chose a lame marriage to him and expect him to leave or cheat or simply be miserable on this issue.


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## stoney1215 (Jun 18, 2012)

Big Mama said:


> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, so touches adn humping me like a hor*ney dog is about sex, not just because. GREAT :\
> 
> But think you guys for the encouragement you have provided. I hate that I am at a loss here, that no one choose to share these words of wisdom with me before I got married. I was raised in a bubble practically. Sexuality was not encouraged, pregnant people were nasty cause we all know how they got that way married or not. I was raised in a strict christian family, and my parents never showed affection. If romance, kissing or anything was on TV, we had to change channels.
> 
> ...


The humping etc. Is not just about sex. It is about much more. We men tend to express our love and affection and attraction physically. We do that because we are generally repressed emotionally as men in much the same way women are expressed sexually. 

I think the single worse thing about religion is what it has done to people sexually. Especially women. You are taught from childhood that sex is bad and you are a **** ora ***** if you have sex or even are perceived to be sexual and then expected to forget about all that and think sex is good once you are married. We set our daughters up for failure because we believe that something that 99% of all people do. 

I hope i have been at least a little help to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Big Mama (Mar 24, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> This does not mitigate your experience but it may help to understand how she could marry you under such deceit.
> 
> Sadly, CSA teaches the survivor that people are useful for certain things. The abuser took advantage of her innocence and subverted it for something as useless as orgasms for himself.
> 
> ...




So true. It brings tears to my eyes. There one who commits these crimes often has no idea what they are inflicting on others for generations to come. 

I have a history of CSA in my past. What was done to me damages ME, MY H, MY DAUGHTER (potentially in how I raise her), and ANY FAMILY MEMBERS (should I choose to tell them) All because of one cowards needs inflicted on someone innocent.


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