# Should I even try to reason with girlfriend about her demon daughter?



## bobsmith

Seems like a VERY harsh title, I know! Especially since we are both (girlfriend and I) raised in the same church. There are a LOT of concerns. 

Basically I escaped a relationship of about 13yrs. Have two great boys and a pile of other children in the family. I feel, I do well with children and my boys would never be called "out of control". 

With a girlfriend now of nearly 2yrs and her daughter is now 3yo. I honestly am at my wits end with this child! Every word out of her mouth is whining, and "my mommy". I do have two children of my own and been a part of many of my nieces and nephews lives, helping raise them. 

My girlfriend's daughter is borderline vengeful! She will kick slap, scream, etc. Her mother gives in and eventuallyd gives the child exactly what she wants and says "you need to be sweeter with her". I helped raise my own sister and her daughter, and several other girls and never seen anything like it! 

I personally feel she is feeding the behavior. Either way, I cannot go through life allowing the disrespect. I am a reasonable person but this is ridiculous. 

I guess the biggest breaker for me is that the mother is taking away my parenting side and I feel we are going down this road of "you manage your kids and I will manage mine". i am not OK with that. 

What brought on this post is I was asked and volunteered to watch the child (sick today) for 3-4hrs this morning while mom went to work. Not the first time to watch her of course. Child slept a long time as she has been sick. Finally woke up 30min before mom got home, got up for a few minutes, then just slammed her door shut and screamed. This is a girl that if you even try to talk to her she screams at you, kicks you, throws things, etc. So I left her while watching her on the kiddy cam. 

Mom walks in and the child is sitting in the hallway crying and instantly says "what did you you?" needless to say I am beyond pissed. This little girl is going down a road I don't care to embrace. The mom KNOWS the child is more than difficult but I seriously don't think she even knows she CAUSED it!! I have no idea how to communicate on this or even if I should try? Time to walk away?

I realize some might say I am being insensitive with this but I have tried about everything. This girl, IMO, has ODD or oppositional defiance disorder. You tell her to leave the car door along and she will go hang on it and look right at you doing it.


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## EleGirl

It sounds like you are living with the mother and child. Is this right?

If you really want to try at this relationship, then you probably need to get your gf into parenting counseling with you. The two of you need to learn how to parent together. 

If your gf refuses or if the counseling does not work, then my suggestion is that you end the relationship. There is no way you can life like that over the long haul.


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## Sbrown

Ime parenting styles must mesh between friends. 

Scott


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## Satya

Hi bobsmith, 

Sounds like an intolerable situation!

I do disagree with you on one point. The girl is your girlfriend's daughter, therefore your gf is the parent and the one primarily responsible for her (daughter's) consequences for bad behavior. You may wish to contribute, but authority will never be truly equal between you. That respect needs to be learned from the girl and she is so far from respecting either of you at this point. 

This is fundamentally a parenting issue. You and your gf are NOT compatible in terms of parenting. EleGirl recommended counseling, which I think is a great idea, but if your gf is not on board with the idea I think you should move on. It's sad but if the girl does have a real issue or disorder, from what you say, your gf may be in denial. The girl is young now, but consider her being 13,16, etc... With no real intervention and advocacy, the girl is on a path to a tumultuous life. 

The fact that the gf would look to blame you rather than her daughter (knowing her behavior) means she's chosen her daughter over you. The gf will continue to encourage her daughter's bad behavior by not putting her foot down. If that's how she parents, it's how she parents. You can't change her parenting unless she wants a change. Her style simply is not compatible with yours. It's already affecting your relationship and will continue to do so until one of you leaves.


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## farsidejunky

Satya said:


> Hi bobsmith,
> 
> Sounds like an intolerable situation!
> 
> I do disagree with you on one point. The girl is your girlfriend's daughter, therefore your gf is the parent and the one primarily responsible for her (daughter's) consequences for bad behavior. You may wish to contribute, but authority will never be truly equal between you. That respect needs to be learned from the girl and she is so far from respecting either of you at this point.
> 
> This is fundamentally a parenting issue. You and your gf are NOT compatible in terms of parenting. EleGirl recommended counseling, which I think is a great idea, but if your gf is not on board with the idea I think you should move on. It's sad but if the girl does have a real issue or disorder, from what you say, your gf may be in denial. The girl is young now, but consider her being 13,16, etc... With no real intervention and advocacy, the girl is on a path to a tumultuous life.
> 
> The fact that the gf would look to blame you rather than her daughter (knowing her behavior) means she's chosen her daughter over you. The gf will continue to encourage her daughter's bad behavior by not putting her foot down. If that's how she parents, it's how she parents. You can't change her parenting unless she wants a change. Her style simply is not compatible with yours. It's already affecting your relationship and will continue to do so until one of you leaves.


Satya:

I disagree with the assertion that somehow the step parent (or live in boyfriend in this case) should have less authority.

As a child of divorced parents, and someone who was raised with my step-father as more of my actual father, I would argue that it is essential that both parents have the same level of authority. 

I would further argue (although this may rub some the wrong way) that in many ways, the father figure should have specific authority as what should be the head of the household.

I do agree that if this can't be resolved, the relationship should end.

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## Satya

Totally agree, that would be ideal. Maybe I didn't word things as best as I could have. My concern is that the gf would need to assert the initial boundaries. Perhaps in time they would have equal parental authority (maybe authority isn't the best word to use here) and I agree, this is as it should be. However, the mother needs to be the exemplar, start the process, and support OP's decisions so the girl sees that he does have equal authority and can respect that recognition from her mother. 

From your memory farside, do you recall going through something similar? I'm just curious, not attempting to draw a parallel.

It was a bit early when I posted, so I don't think I expressed myself all that well.


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## farsidejunky

There was an incredibly rocky 6 month period when he first moved in. I was 12 or so, and my sister 11. We literally alternated nights being really lousy behaved (not scripted or planned, just sort of weird), but it evened out from there.

We joke with my step father often about it now, but at the time, he was evidently questioning his ability to deal with it.

So maybe I wasn't the best kid...



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## Lila

Bob:

Based on your previous posts, I'm assuming this is the girl you've been dating since July/August 2014? Are you two living together and if so, when did that happen? 

How often does the little girl see her dad, if at all? 

Does she go to school/daycare? Do the care providers complain about her? IOW, is her behavior universal or specifically targeted towards you? 

Has she always behaved this way around you? 

Three years old is a difficult age for both parents and kids. At this age, kids start testing their autonomy by which I mean parents' boundaries. The word 'No' becomes a staple in their communication. Temper tantrums can also become a common occurrence. However, those melt downs can also be a sign of deeper issues. This is the age where parents need to watch for symptoms of autism. If the child is behaving this way with everyone, then there's more going on than a 'spoiled' child.


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## bobsmith

Yes, same woman. We don't live together but I am there a lot. The girl's father is a "5%er". He is hardly father material and it is really hard for me to watch. He lives 200mi away. Put it this way, he left my gf when she was about 6mo preg and moved to another state. He is special! 

One of my kids has mild Autism. I know how to watch for things and I see some very defiant behaviors. Not just acting out for attention, but sort of "how dare you tell me to do anything? I do precisely what I want and I will throw a fit until i get it". I sat and watched mom tell the child to do something very minor. The child ignores it completely because mom makes threatens without follow through. 

I can tell you this with experience, the little girl is sharp as a tack! She is smart, I am smart, and we could do well together but I will never accept anyone in my life disrespecting me like this and I expect it to just get worse. 

She has some of this attitude with others and the daycare BUT, what I have learned is this behavior is not even that bad with just me and her most times but she sort of blows WAY up when mom is around or just screams that she wants her mom and only her mom. Thats great and all but I don't honestly want to be around someone that does not want to be around me. That is drama I just don't need. All she ever wants is "her mommy". Mom has suffered bad relationships and I think she sees her daughter as the one person that will always be around so instead of being a parent, she has created a crutch. 

The grandparents and such are more in a "vacation" role rather than parenting role. They simply give her what she wants so they rarely have issue but on occasion, he has shown them her real self and called mom to come get her because "she needs a nap"....lol 

She wakes up acting like a rattlesnake. If I so much as touch her, I can see her gears turning if she will act nice or just explode for no reason at all. 


I will offer a few examples of behavior just to help understand the defiance. 

1. We wake up and the child, after being well warned not to plug in the Xmas lights, walks right over and does just that. I immediately went over to stop it and explain to her again that it is dangerous and she is not to plug anything in. She looked right at me as she plugged the next one in as sort of a "just watch me" sort of thing. I grabbed her hand and got down at her level to better communicate this. She then slapped me, I grabbed her hand and as I was telling her not to slap me, she kicked me. So I removed her from the situation and put her in the corner. She tries to just leave the corner constantly and it becomes a struggle so she got to visit her room for a while. This went on for 2 HOURS!! Child is kicking, screaming, tearing things up, etc. Mom was involved in the process but later goes in and reasons with her to try to get her to apologize. She half azz does and I sort of had to leave it alone. Mom always says "what am I supposed to do?" I am pretty sure I know what NOT to do and that is give in to the behavior. 

I was left wondering how what should have been a very simple scold for plugging in lights went to this but the little girl will not stop and escalates things quickly. Mom says she is "sensitive" and needs delicate communication. I think she is full of chit and this child needs a line drawn. 

2. I have had to install special top locks on doors because the child will walk out on her own. We have been in the living room and told her to stay inside only to watch her look at us and walk right now and run. If you go grab her, she will go into a full meltdown. Many times I have listened to mom say, "well, ok but only 10min" AFTER she has escaped! Good job mom, you just rewarded her for defiance. She is now CERTAIN to do it again. 

3. Child will seek to remove her seat belts in the car, even after we sit and watch her do it. She was warned we will have to stop the car I am will have to fix it. We stop, I open her door and she says "don't touch me!" and screams murderously while I try to put her seat belt back on and explain to her to leave her belt alone. 

My kids are well mannered but occasionally act like normal kids and need a quick talk. My youngest gets corner time seldom but after about 5min, he calms and we move on after a quick talk. My personal parenting style is I am the parent first, not your friend. I do love being around kids, hugging them, etc. Kids enjoy me as well but I have to maintain authority, especially in a safety issue. 


My instinct says this girl should be given clear instruction and consequence if you do not follow. Knowing she will not follow, you have to follow through with a consequence. If that drags out, it drags out. you don't tell a 3yo "your going to get a spankin", then not do it. You have left with an empty threat and this girl is no dummy.

I know I sound like I parent like a drill sergeant but I really am pretty lax most of the time. I typically take time to educate children about interesting things, dangers, fun facts, etc. I really wanted this to be a fun experience but i find myself dreading being around this little girl. I know she will explode on me and mom will feel I caused it....


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## Lila

Eek! Sounds like a no win situation. Unfortunately, you and your gf's parenting styles aren't compatible. As the boyfriend, you really do not have much authority to discipline the child your way and that little girl knows it. 

Have you discussed your concerns directly with your gf? What was her response? 

The gf and her daughter come as a set. If the mother refuses to take your concerns seriously and you can't put up with the little girl's disrespect, then the only option you have is to leave the relationship.


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## SecondTime'Round

When my son was this age, I cried every day. I also thought he had ODD. He was tested twice by kindergarten. Nothing came up. He was SO destructive and so defiant. He jumped out a 2nd story window when he was 4.5 because he didn't want to take a nap. (Well, he climbed out, hung, and dropped into thick grass thank God). Every time the phone would ring through second grade I'd get heart palpitations wondering if it was the principal. About half the time it was. 

He was my second child. His big sister was an angel as a baby, toddler, grade school, etc. I was the best mom in the world before he was born! I must have been doing everything right because she was SO well behaved!!! 

My son totally humbled me. I did not parent him differently than I had parented my daughter.  But he was still a turd.

The name of the game in those days was reverse psychology. "Don't you DARE get in your car seat!" "If we get to our destination and you're still buckled in, you're getting a spanking!" "Don't hold my hand...I don't want you touching me...yuck!" It worked for a long time, although it is tiring! 

Also, I used a lot of Listerine strips in his sassy mouth if it needed to be freshened up. He hated them (he's always hated mint), so all I'd have to say was, "do you want a strip?" 

My son is now 13 and loves hearing stories about his toddlerhood and early grade school years and how exasperated he made me....and everyone else. (One time he even had my sister in tears when he stripped naked in a dentist waiting room and tried to escape....it took her and an old lady both to get his clothes back on and I could hear his screams behind two closed doors in the dentist chair!) He turned around in about 3 grade and now is it the complete opposite of that that ornery toddler. He NEVER loses his temper. He is NEVER disrepectful to his dad or me. He and his sister are BFFs. He's kind, thoughtful, helpful. He's also a leader. 

I'm not saying your GF's daughter doesn't have ODD or something, but don't be so quick to blame it all on the mom. Some kids are just azzholes.


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## jld

Some kids really are harder than others.

My fourth child was a terror when he was a preschooler. Drove me crazy. 

Like STR, around 7 or 8 or so he turned a corner. Just started to mature and really turn around. Now, at ten, he is a wonderful boy.
@Anon Pink, can you share any thoughts with Bob? Your parenting advice is always insightful. 
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## unbelievable

If you do decide to reason with the child's mother, I suggest you leave out any association you feel the child might have with the underworld. Unless your girlfriend is a Satanist, it's just not a theme she's likely to respond well to.


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## bobsmith

What is funny is I really don't detest the child and I rather think I am a very appropriate parent to help raise her. I have dealt with a LOT with my autistic/ADHD son! I learned lots of tools. 

The main issue for me is mom systematically taking out all my authority to parent and the child knows it. I tend to feel spending just a week with that child alone and she would have a whole new respect for authority. 

What I see as a big problem is mom cannot stand to see her child cry and scream. She will do anything to avoid that. I am not sure how to get through to her that the child is making the decision to do that, not us. I am not one to give in or back down until there is a marked change in attitude. It has worked well with my kids. Sometimes it takes 5min, sometimes it take 5hrs. 

For the record, I do not think mom is a flunker as a parent. this is her first child and this child is "special". She is ill equipt to deal with it, but I am, but she will not give me what I need to fix this. I literally HATE getting in the car with them! She looks at ME weird because I will put in wear plugs driving down the road because the child will not shut her trap. 

I know when kids are tired, they can melt and that is not a time you will get good parenting done. You just don't touch the rattlesnake until you find a bed or if they are screaming, ear plugs work! What mom will do is throw about every treat at it but the lawnmower. It WON'T work!


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## Anonymous07

bobsmith said:


> Seems like a VERY harsh title, I know! Especially since we are both (girlfriend and I) raised in the same church. There are a LOT of concerns.
> 
> Basically I escaped a relationship of about 13yrs. Have two great boys and a pile of other children in the family. I feel, I do well with children and my boys would never be called "out of control".
> 
> With a girlfriend now of nearly 2yrs and her daughter is now 3yo. I honestly am at my wits end with this child! Every word out of her mouth is whining, and "my mommy". I do have two children of my own and been a part of many of my nieces and nephews lives, helping raise them.
> 
> My girlfriend's daughter is borderline vengeful! She will kick slap, scream, etc. Her mother gives in and eventuallyd gives the child exactly what she wants and says "you need to be sweeter with her". I helped raise my own sister and her daughter, and several other girls and never seen anything like it!
> 
> I personally feel she is feeding the behavior. Either way, I cannot go through life allowing the disrespect. I am a reasonable person but this is ridiculous.
> 
> I guess the biggest breaker for me is that the mother is taking away my parenting side and I feel we are going down this road of "you manage your kids and I will manage mine". i am not OK with that.
> 
> What brought on this post is I was asked and volunteered to watch the child (sick today) for 3-4hrs this morning while mom went to work. Not the first time to watch her of course. Child slept a long time as she has been sick. Finally woke up 30min before mom got home, got up for a few minutes, then just slammed her door shut and screamed. This is a girl that if you even try to talk to her she screams at you, kicks you, throws things, etc. So I left her while watching her on the kiddy cam.
> 
> Mom walks in and the child is sitting in the hallway crying and instantly says "what did you you?" needless to say I am beyond pissed. This little girl is going down a road I don't care to embrace. The mom KNOWS the child is more than difficult but I seriously don't think she even knows she CAUSED it!! I have no idea how to communicate on this or even if I should try? Time to walk away?
> 
> I realize some might say I am being insensitive with this but I have tried about everything. This girl, IMO, has ODD or oppositional defiance disorder. You tell her to leave the car door along and she will go hang on it and look right at you doing it.


What makes you think your gf caused this?? 

Some kids are just more difficult than others. Each child/person has their own personality and some are very strong willed, high needs, and/or spirited. My 2 and a half year old is one of them! He is very strong willed/high needs and has been since he was a newborn. I've been a nanny, babysat for many years and helped raise my cousin. None of them were like my son. I didn't make him that way. This is just who he is. The same parenting techniques that work for other kids, do *not* work with my son. I have had to find different ways of dealing with him and it has been a learning process.

I just ordered this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-Spirited-Child-Perceptive/dp/0060923288

I am apart of a support group for those with high needs/spirited children and many love this book, so I am giving it a try. I've learned quickly to pick my battles because it's just not worth the struggle to fight my son on some things. His extreme stubbornness can make me want to pull my hair out. He needs to feel some control in life or else he throws a major fit, as in screaming like he is being murdered and throwing himself on the floor. I make sure to give him choices, such as choosing what clothes to wear, what cup he wants to drink from, and so on. I typically give him a choice between 2 options for almost everything. It helps cut down on his defiance. 

As Secondtime'round mentioned, many kids like this tend to get better in grade school, as I have been hearing that from many who have kids like this. I so look forward to that time period, as it's tough currently. 

I think it's extremely sad that you call her daughter a demon. I would be extremely pissed off if anyone referred to my son that way. I love my son to death and would tear a person apart if they tried to hurt him, but I don't always like him. I would never refer to him as a demon child though. He is tough/difficult, but he is a sweet, very smart little boy. He has done a lot of things that make my life difficult(escaping from his car seat - Houdini child, climbing things - made it most of the way up to the top of the fridge before I grabbed him, etc.), but he is amazing, too. I have to use the button down shirt trick for the car seat now to keep him safe. 

I recommend trying out the book and having your gf read it, too. It can help give you a better understanding of your gf's daughter and better ways of handling her. There is a lot of good information online, too.


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## SecondTime'Round

This is also an excellent resource. If this guy comes to your town, GO. The workshops are free, but designed to sell his expensive CDs. I've listened to all of the CDs and they are great (a former colleague owned them; I did not buy them), but even before I did, I got a lot out of the workshop. Maybe you could get your GF to go with you if there's one in your area.

Celebrate Calm


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## Anonymous07

bobsmith said:


> What is funny is I really don't detest the child and I rather think I am a very appropriate parent to help raise her. I have dealt with a LOT with my autistic/ADHD son! I learned lots of tools.
> 
> The main issue for me is mom systematically taking out all my authority to parent and the child knows it. I tend to feel spending just a week with that child alone and she would have a whole new respect for authority.
> 
> What I see as a big problem is mom cannot stand to see her child cry and scream. She will do anything to avoid that. I am not sure how to get through to her that the child is making the decision to do that, not us. I am not one to give in or back down until there is a marked change in attitude. It has worked well with my kids. Sometimes it takes 5min, sometimes it take 5hrs.
> 
> For the record, I do not think mom is a flunker as a parent. this is her first child and this child is "special". She is ill equipt to deal with it, but I am, but she will not give me what I need to fix this. I literally HATE getting in the car with them! She looks at ME weird because I will put in wear plugs driving down the road because the child will not shut her trap.
> 
> I know when kids are tired, they can melt and that is not a time you will get good parenting done. You just don't touch the rattlesnake until you find a bed or if they are screaming, ear plugs work! What mom will do is throw about every treat at it but the lawnmower. It WON'T work!


Authoritarian style parenting does not work well with a strong willed child. What worked well for your kids and others may not work well with your girlfriend's daughter. You have to let go of what you think "works" and try something new, or else you will be in for a long, frustrating experience. You don't have all the answers here. Work with your girlfriend to find new ways to handling her daughter that both of you can agree with.


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## ExiledBayStater

Do you know who Bella Bond was (aka Baby Doe)? That's the first story to come to my mind when someone refers to his girlfriend's "demon daughter."

To answer your title question, no you should not try. Break up with your demon girlfriend and let her deal with her demon daughter. You're not married, not engaged, and not in a common law marriage yet (though that clock is ticking if that is the law where you live). What are you waiting for?


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## ExiledBayStater

farsidejunky said:


> Satya:
> 
> I disagree with the assertion that somehow the step parent (or live in boyfriend in this case) should have less authority.
> 
> As a child of divorced parents, and someone who was raised with my step-father as more of my actual father, I would argue that it is essential that both parents have the same level of authority.
> 
> I would further argue (although this may rub some the wrong way) that in many ways, the father figure should have specific authority as what should be the head of the household.
> 
> I do agree that if this can't be resolved, the relationship should end.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I would only add the caveat that giving a stepparent that much authority means the parent must be *extremely* careful in choosing a partner for such a relationship.


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## phillybeffandswiss

ExiledBayStater said:


> I would only add the caveat that giving a stepparent that much authority means the parent must be *extremely* careful in choosing a partner for such a relationship.


I'd hope this is number one before parenting ever came into the picture.


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## Satya

I think OP endorses a more authorotative parenting style than just authoritarian. At least, that's what I gather from his posts. 

I think you should both, as a couple watch some of the more horrendous episodes of super nanny. The ONLY way her methods had sticking power was if the parents were a real TEAM about the intervention.


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## jld

@Anonymous07

I heard that author speak at a conference once. For sure, she loves children. That is very important.

One thing I remember from her talk is that different parents can have very different comfort levels with children's behavior. She mentioned knowing a family who let their kids jump off the roof onto mattresses. She thought that very frightening, and would not have let her kids do it. 

She said those kids eventually became ski champions. Her own kids did not.
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## Idun

Do you see this GF as long term, marriage material? Maybe she sees the kids as "hers" and "yours" because you're just BF and GF. As just a BF I don't think you should parent the child, but I would not allow disrespect towards you or your property especially if they have moved into your place (not sure what the exact circumstance is for you).


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## turnera

bobsmith said:


> I realize some might say I am being insensitive with this but I have tried about everything. This girl, IMO, has ODD or oppositional defiance disorder. You tell her to leave the car door along and she will go hang on it and look right at you doing it.


Everything? Have you told her that the two of you are going to see a therapist about it?


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## Anon Pink

"mom cannot stand to see the child scream and cry."

There's your issue right there. Until Mom learns to cope with an unhappy child mom will move mountains to ensure her child is never unhappy. Parents like this seem to think they are destroying their child when their child cries. Parents like this fail to see the value in a child being unhappy as a result of appropriate structure, supervision and boundaries. Until this Mom can come to grips with the value of having a temporarily unhappy child-in order to raise an adult who has the skills to create his or her own happiness-there is nothing you can do to rectify this situation. 

Therefore, put your energy into drawing Mom out, get her talking about how she feels when her daughter is crying. How does she think adults become adults without having several skinned knees, a broken wrist, a bang on the head, multiple ear infection...etc. no one gets out of childhood without a BUNCH of 'war stories' to tell. Mom needs to learn the difference between structure and oppression, and I'm pretty sure she doesn't see that right now.

You, as a parent of a special needs child, know exactly the difference between good structure and oppressive structure. You can teach this Mom but only if she is on board. 

Also, 3 year old are my all time favorite age! I adore 3 year olds. 4 year olds suck, though. I've never met a 4 year old I liked too much, including my own!  3 year olds react pretty well to structure and consistency. 4 year olds challenge. 3 year olds are magical, 4 year olds are jaded. The difference between a 3 year old and a 4 year old is huge. And 3 or 4 is about 8 years too young for ODD to even be a consideration. 

The one who needs therapy here is Mom. She needs to put her own childhood away and figure out how to parent so she doesn't create a legacy of poor parenting begetting poor parents.


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## turnera

Yep. And the MOTHERS who think they aren't allowed to let their child cry are the people who are destroying this generation.

SHE NEEDS PROFESSIONAL THERAPY.


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## bobsmith

A couple things. First, I must realize my humor ALWAYS fails to convey online. I was KIDDING about the child being a demon and I was kidding that she has ODD. I am actually dealing with a difficult child that needs better parenting IMO. 

Anon - I am unsure if others are supporting your view but I think you hit what I was trying to say pretty darn close! As a parent, And NOT saying I am a model parent, I am seeing some things that both concern me and drive me away. IMO, you don't tell a child not to do something, wait for the child to throw a complete meltdown fit, then go coddle them and tell them it will be OK and here's you a treat. You just taught that child that throw a fit big enough and long enough and you will get your way. And guess what!? This child can go for hours now throwing fits! 

BUT, when she finally realizes the fit won't work, guess what!? She stops! She screams "I want my mommy" a lot because her mom is her savior. I know I sound like a prick here but I think some parents here might hear what I am saying. Mom cannot walk away! She even has the video monitor glued to her. I certainly like the monitor and agree with it, but living with it under your pillow with the child only 20ft away is off, IMO. How did parents ever raise a child without! 

The biggest concern/issue and probably opener to bigger issues is mom will NOT take my opinion well and likely go cry to her sisters and they will then coddle her. What is more funny is the sister's husbands are a lot like me. 

I am really don't know how to even discuss this with her. I know she will flip this back as an attack on her but she is hurting that child more than she knows. I guess the first things I learned raising kids is parent 1st, friend 2nd. Really sucks! But good parents have to draw that line between not upsetting the child and doing what is best for the child.


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## turnera

bobsmith said:


> I am really don't know how to even discuss this with her.


That's why I asked if you have taken her to a therapist to talk about it safely. And most likely the therapist will also back up the premise that she's harming her kid being this way. If you can't even say 'I want to go to a therapist with you to discuss an issue I'm having,' then you don't have much of a relationship.


----------



## Anon Pink

Trying to correct another parents parenting is like waking through a mine field blindfolded. The wise course is not to try such a fools errand.

During conversation in which you are sharing stories about childhood, ask her how her parents set down limits, how they handled discipline. Discover how she feels about that now. If she feels negatively about how she was parented, say her parents were judgemental, or cold, or high handed and strict, or even emotionally neglectful, your opening might be to get her thinking about how her parents have influenced her parenting. Is she doing the same or is she going in the complete opposite direction?

Here is the bottom line, the cold hard fact: unless you can get Mom to recognize her parenting skills could use some tweaking, you are beating your head against a brick wall.

In my years of dealing with families in need, I could talk, cajole, urge, and inform till I was blue in the face and everything fell on deaf ears unless the parent recognized their parenting skills needed some tweaking. Those few parents who were open to learning to tweak their skill set were obvious in their desire. The others pretended and they were obvious in their indifference. But here is an important skill I had to show those families: that I was in their side, that I was supportive of their skills and that I recognized them to be a loving parent who was doing her/his best. (I had 3 single Dads on my case load, the rest were single Moms or Grandmothers raising grandchildren)

I look at parenting as a series of skills, a bag of tricks to get the child safely from point A to point B. There is no ONE right way. The more tricks you have in your big parenting bag the more effective you are as a parent. Most of us parent on a wing and a prayer, few of us come to parenting after having been well parented. Most of us need to recognize and assess how our parents informed our own parenting, and do some serious house cleaning. Add to that every child is different and what works for one child may not work for the other. My first made me feel like I was a super parent! My second taught me I had no idea what I was doing!  my youngest is also keeping me humble.

All this to say, if you can't get Mom firmly on board to learn more effective parenting skills, you may as well walk away because it will never change and this will be a constant issue. Secondly, this challenging little girl will absolutely sense your building resentment. You do resent her behavior and you resent that your bigger bag of parenting skills is useless while this Mom sabotages. This little girl is better off being parented, though totally ineffectively by just her Mom, rather than a Mom who indulges-but makes her feel loved- and Moms boyfriend who always seems mad at her. This little girl can't distinguish that Moms boyfriend has her best interests. She thinks Mom loves her and you don't love her, therefore she disregards your limits. 

Walking away from this relationship is the best thing for you, your sons, and this little girl.


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## bkyln309

Are you a parent of multiple kids? Because I can tell you all kids are different. I ended up with two difficult children (both went through it at different stages and both are super stubborn). Im sure looking in from the outside people think I give in but you have to pick your battles. You cant punish your kids constantly especially at that age. Not sure how much you were involved with your children at that age as the primary parent, but many kids want MOMMY at that age. 

Secondly, you are the BF and not the husband (stepdad). You simply cannot parent her children.


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## Anon Pink

@Anonymous07, what is the button down shirt trick?

Also, you are absolutely correct that the strong willed child requires a totally different set of parenting skills. Those melt downs can be horrendous! Have you tried to teach your son deep breathing? If you can teach him deep breathing to a count of ten during calm times with love and comfort, it might help him to get calm during meltdowns if you remind him the deep breathing trick. I've seen it absolutely stop a meltdown with a little boy who had been taught this by his mother and therapists. And the best thing about this is anyone can prompt the deep breathing and avoid a meltdown.


----------



## turnera

bkyln309 said:


> Are you a parent of multiple kids? Because I can tell you all kids are different. I ended up with two difficult children (both went through it at different stages and both are super stubborn). Im sure looking in from the outside people think I give in but you have to pick your battles. You cant punish your kids constantly especially at that age. Not sure how much you were involved with your children at that age as the primary parent, but many kids want MOMMY at that age.
> 
> Secondly, you are the BF and not the husband (stepdad). You simply cannot parent her children.


No, but he can make it clear he doesn't see a future for them if she doesn't address it.


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> Also, 3 year old are my all time favorite age! I adore 3 year olds. 4 year olds suck, though. I've never met a 4 year old I liked too much, including my own!  3 year olds react pretty well to structure and consistency. 4 year olds challenge. 3 year olds are magical, 4 year olds are jaded. The difference between a 3 year old and a 4 year old is huge. And 3 or 4 is about 8 years too young for ODD to even be a consideration.
> 
> The one who needs therapy here is Mom. She needs to put her own childhood away and figure out how to parent so she doesn't create a legacy of poor parenting begetting poor parents.





Anon Pink said:


> I disagree here. Every child is different and while you don't think many 3 year olds can challenge rules, my 2 year old is already there. He can be jaded. He's 2! When you have a child who is more challenging, you have to change your "bag of tricks" for parenting. I don't necessarily think the mom is doing that bad. Most pre-school age children want mommy instead of daddy. That's completely normal. I also think she views the kids as "hers" vs "his" because they are not married yet. If he comes at her criticizing the way she parents her daughter, it will not go over well. It has to be approached with a tone of concern for the girl and asking to take some of the stress load off the mother because it is very tiring parenting a strong willed child.
> 
> @Anonymous07, what is the button down shirt trick?
> 
> Also, you are absolutely correct that the strong willed child requires a totally different set of parenting skills. Those melt downs can be horrendous! Have you tried to teach your son deep breathing? If you can teach him deep breathing to a count of ten during calm times with love and comfort, it might help him to get calm during meltdowns if you remind him the deep breathing trick. I've seen it absolutely stop a meltdown with a little boy who had been taught this by his mother and therapists. And the best thing about this is anyone can prompt the deep breathing and avoid a meltdown.


The button down shirt trick for the car seat:
The Car Seat Lady ? Houdini Stopper ? Button-Down Shirt Trick

We already count when he gets frustrated and it's hit or miss as to whether or not it helps. Sometimes it does and sometimes it does not. Other times we hug it out because my son is high touch and needs physical contact throughout the day. We're both learning as he gets older.


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## Anon Pink

Hugging it out is a great technique! I stumbled on that when my oldest was 4 and had a melt down. I picked her up and sat on the couch just to talk to her and she was asleep in about 10 seconds. It's like those V8 commercials. Duh!

Thanks for the link @Anonymous07


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## jld

I really like the idea of "hugging it out." I like ideas that promote connection rather than disconnection.


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## NobodySpecial

bobsmith said:


> Seems like a VERY harsh title, I know! Especially since we are both (girlfriend and I) raised in the same church. There are a LOT of concerns.
> 
> Basically I escaped a relationship of about 13yrs. Have two great boys and a pile of other children in the family. I feel, I do well with children and my boys would never be called "out of control".
> 
> With a girlfriend now of nearly 2yrs and her daughter is now 3yo. I honestly am at my wits end with this child! Every word out of her mouth is whining, and "my mommy". I do have two children of my own and been a part of many of my nieces and nephews lives, helping raise them.
> 
> My girlfriend's daughter is borderline vengeful! She will kick slap, scream, etc. Her mother gives in and eventuallyd gives the child exactly what she wants and says "you need to be sweeter with her". I helped raise my own sister and her daughter, and several other girls and never seen anything like it!
> 
> I personally feel she is feeding the behavior. Either way, I cannot go through life allowing the disrespect. I am a reasonable person but this is ridiculous.
> 
> I guess the biggest breaker for me is that the mother is taking away my parenting side and I feel we are going down this road of "you manage your kids and I will manage mine". i am not OK with that.
> 
> What brought on this post is I was asked and volunteered to watch the child (sick today) for 3-4hrs this morning while mom went to work. Not the first time to watch her of course. Child slept a long time as she has been sick. Finally woke up 30min before mom got home, got up for a few minutes, then just slammed her door shut and screamed. This is a girl that if you even try to talk to her she screams at you, kicks you, throws things, etc. So I left her while watching her on the kiddy cam.
> 
> Mom walks in and the child is sitting in the hallway crying and instantly says "what did you you?" needless to say I am beyond pissed. This little girl is going down a road I don't care to embrace. The mom KNOWS the child is more than difficult but I seriously don't think she even knows she CAUSED it!! I have no idea how to communicate on this or even if I should try? *Time to walk away?*


IMO if your GF is unwilling to work with you, then yes. Nothing will be more miserable for you than living as a second class citizen to a spoiled preschooler.

vickihoefle.com





> I realize some might say I am being insensitive with this but I have tried about everything. This girl, IMO, has ODD or oppositional defiance disorder. You tell her to leave the car door along and she will go hang on it and look right at you doing it.


At three she much more likely has spoiling mother syndrome.


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## NobodySpecial

Anonymous07 said:


> Authoritarian style parenting does not work well with a strong willed child.


Revising this a little. Authoritarian style parenting does not work at anything useful with ANYONE. Behavior of the moment is not the best end goal. Growing a self reliant, awesome grown up is. Requiring a child cede to authority does not teach that.


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## NobodySpecial

This was more helpful than the book(s) IMO

Parenting On Track Videos | Vicki Hoefle


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## Adelais

Our first child was a difficult child. He tested (or ignored all together) all boundaries. We made lots of mistakes by being more and more strict, which made him more rebellious. We didn't realize that by giving him choices (that no matter which choice he makes will be OK with us) he would feel he had some control in his life. But knowing him, he would have not picked from the choices given to him by us, but gone outside the choices anyway. LOL (actually not LOL, but sob!)

After he was already in his teens and almost destroyed the peace in our home with his shenanigans, we discovered the *"Love and Logic"* series. It had been recommended by another family who had a wild child, who was turning into a nightmarish teenager. Already our entire family was miserable because of the things he would do, and how the house was always in an uproar.

We found a lot of the CD's at our local library, they are so popular. The older versions we copied to MP3 so we could listen to them over and over. They are really for the PARENTS sanity.

We are going to buy them for all our children when they start their families. We wish we had known about them YEARS ago.

Here is a link to their website and some of the series they offer. Your girlfriend will thank you for what she learns. I'm sure she is miserable too, and at her wits end.

https://www.loveandlogic.com/parents?cat=65


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## Anonymous07

Anon Pink said:


> Also, 3 year old are my all time favorite age! I adore 3 year olds. 4 year olds suck, though. I've never met a 4 year old I liked too much, including my own!  3 year olds react pretty well to structure and consistency. 4 year olds challenge. 3 year olds are magical, 4 year olds are jaded. The difference between a 3 year old and a 4 year old is huge. And 3 or 4 is about 8 years too young for ODD to even be a consideration.
> 
> The one who needs therapy here is Mom. She needs to put her own childhood away and figure out how to parent so she doesn't create a legacy of poor parenting begetting poor parents.


Hope this works, as I don't know what happened to the last one when I quoted this. 

I have to disagree with the above. Every child is different and while you don't think many 3 year olds challenge the rules, I beg to differ. My son is 2 and challenges the rules every day. He can be jaded at times as well. It all depends on the child's personality. 

I will also disagree that the mother here is failing in parenting this child. It's really a learning process for how to parent a child like this. If he approaches her in a way that says she is failing or a bad parent, it will not go over well. If he wants ways to make this work, he needs to show her that he wants to work with her on this and help lessen her stress load in raising a child who is more strong willed(coming from a place of love, not judgement). He can come from a point of understanding that this child needs a different approach and that he wants to work with her to help her. I would suggest reading the book together, so both of them can find new techniques to move forward. 

Most pre-school aged children want mommy, so that is completely normal. My son is at that stage right now, where he will yell "no! I want mommy!" at my husband. Children go through phases of which parent they prefer, as it switches between mom and dad. My son was a daddy's boy and now is back to being a mommy's boy. I'm sure he'll switch again soon enough. It's normal child development. 



Anon Pink said:


> Hugging it out is a great technique! I stumbled on that when my oldest was 4 and had a melt down. I picked her up and sat on the couch just to talk to her and she was asleep in about 10 seconds. It's like those V8 commercials. Duh!
> 
> Thanks for the link @Anonymous07


Hugging it out has never helped put my son to sleep, as he just will not fall asleep that quickly. He's always been a bad sleeper and fights it like no other. He's my high needs little boy. It takes him a long while to wind down and fall asleep. We have to go through his routine for him to get there and then he falls asleep. He has a ton of energy, more than many kids who are years older than him. The other day we went to look at Christmas lights with some relatives and my aunt's friends. A 6 year old was there, too. He was pooped and wanted to sleep by 8 pm and was carried to the car. My 2 year old was still wide awake and wanting to go see more. He would not go in the stroller, but insisted on pushing it himself. Every kid is different. My son has completely changed my views on parenting.


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## Adelais

Anonymous07 said:


> My son has completely changed my views on parenting.


Some children have a way of doing that, don't they. I thought I was going to be the best parent in the world, until I had our son. If the world judged my parenting based on our son, they would think we were the worst parents in the world.

Thank God we were blessed with 3 mellow yet fun girls after him, or I would have felt like a complete failure as a parent and later would have died of an early heart attack.

If you and your girlfriend cannot find a program that you both agree on, you'd best separate from her, because her daughter is not going to change personality. All that can happen is that you and your girlfriend will learn how to better handle the daughter, and channel her independence so it is not so rebellious.


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## Anonymous07

jld said:


> @Anonymous07
> 
> I heard that author speak at a conference once. For sure, she loves children. That is very important.
> 
> One thing I remember from her talk is that different parents can have very different comfort levels with children's behavior. She mentioned knowing a family who let their kids jump off the roof onto mattresses. She thought that very frightening, and would not have let her kids do it.
> 
> She said those kids eventually became ski champions. Her own kids did not.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I let my son do a lot, which I know can make other parents(even my husband) nervous, but I trust my son knowing his limits. He is super smart and strong. He's 2 and often will play on the "big kid" side of the park, climbing the large 'rock wall', jumping down the steep slides, and so on. He's been doing that since he was around 18 months old. He hasn't had any bad injuries yet. He needs the challenge(both mental and physical), otherwise he tends to get bored and can act out. He has that stubborn determination.


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## NobodySpecial

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Some children have a way of doing that, don't they.


The thing that frequently strikes me is the resistance to learning new information about parenting that happens with a lot of parents.


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## jld

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> Some children have a way of doing that, don't they. I thought I was going to be the best parent in the world, until I had our son. If the world judged my parenting based on our son, they would think we were the worst parents in the world.
> 
> Thank God we were blessed with 3 mellow yet fun girls after him, or I would have felt like a complete failure as a parent and later would have died of an early heart attack.
> 
> If you and your girlfriend cannot find a program that you both agree on, you'd best separate from her, because her daughter is not going to change personality. All that can happen is that you and your girlfriend will learn how to better handle the daughter, and channel her independence so it is not so rebellious.


I agree he should leave them. I think all three will find great peace in that.


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## jld

Anonymous07 said:


> I let my son do a lot, which I know can make other parents(even my husband) nervous, but I trust my son knowing his limits. He is super smart and strong. He's 2 and often will play on the "big kid" side of the park, climbing the large 'rock wall', jumping down the steep slides, and so on. He's been doing that since he was around 18 months old. He hasn't had any bad injuries yet. He needs the challenge(both mental and physical), otherwise he tends to get bored and can act out. He has that stubborn determination.


I'm sure you are doing fine, A7. 

I am glad you are open to what he needs.


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## Anonymous07

NobodySpecial said:


> The thing that frequently strikes me is the resistance to learning new information about parenting that happens with a lot of parents.


I think a lot of it comes down to how it's approached. When you come at a parenting, criticizing how they are handling their child and making them feel like a failure, very few will respond well to that. It has to be communicated in a loving way to help them both learn better ways of parenting. He does not have all the answers and neither does she. They can both learn a lot with doing some more reading and research, as well as some trial and error since every kid is different.


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## Anonymous07

jld said:


> I'm sure you are doing fine, A7.
> 
> I am glad you are open to what he needs.


Thank you, but I often feel like I'm failing. I definitely struggle with him a lot.


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## NobodySpecial

Anonymous07 said:


> I think a lot of it comes down to how it's approached. When you come at a parenting, criticizing how they are handling their child and making them feel like a failure, very few will respond well to that. It has to be communicated in a loving way to help them both learn better ways of parenting. He does not have all the answers and neither does she. They can both learn a lot with doing some more reading and research, as well as some trial and error since every kid is different.


Different people have different motivators, to be sure. I was overjoyed to learn that it was me that was "failing". That way I could do something about it rather than living the rest of my life with an ill behaved strong willed kid!


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## jld

Anonymous07 said:


> Thank you, but I often feel like I'm failing. I definitely struggle with him a lot.


He is so young. Having young kids is a lot about riding the wave, not trying to control it. 

Actually, trying to control is rarely a good idea. Working with people, whatever their age, is a lot better idea. _If we have the patience . . ._ I know I often don't.


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## Adelais

NobodySpecial said:


> The thing that frequently strikes me is the resistance to learning new information about parenting that happens with a lot of parents.


We think that love will conquer all. What we miss is a little psychology and medical facts about the development (or lack of) of young people's minds, so we can tailor everything to go through that filter and get the best result.

I also think that parents take everything personally, and think that everything their children does is all their fault. If they realize that children are all different, and some of their behavior has nothing to do with the parent, they might be more open to getting help.

When I hear a child having a melt down in a public place, and I see the look of terror in the parent's eyes, I really feel sympathy for the parent. 

That happened to me only once with my son. I hustled him and my other children out of the store, leaving the full cart behind, and gave him a spanking in the van in the parking lot. I always kept a swatter in the van, and the children knew it. I didn't go back in and buy the things in the cart. They all learned that day that if they *never* want to receive a particular toy, just throw a tantrum over it. No one else ever threw a tantrum in public, because they knew that their bottom would be bared and and they would receive 3 stinging swats in the van, in front of the others. Also, they learned that when mom whispers to them in a public place, they had better listen and obey.

When I hear a parent yell at their child in public, and hear the child throwing a tantrum, I know the parent is as out of control as the child. Our youngest is now 13. They all look at each other when they hear a child screaming, and then hear their parent yelling at the child. I've heard one of my girls say to one of her sisters that the parent needs to whisper to the child to get them to listen, and then take them out to their car and give them a spanking.

ETA: The toy my son threw a fit over was a Thomas the Tank Engine movie. The whole family enjoyed our huge wooden train set, and even our 3 girls, my husband and I had our own named train cars, major bridges, other pieces and buildings. All we were missing was a movie. He really wanted one. Even *I* wanted our family to own a Thomas movie. Because of that tantrum, and as badly as I, *yes I*, wanted our son to have a movie, I stuck to my guns, controlled *MYSELF* and never broke down to get him a Thomas The Tank Engine movie. Getting him that movie, or even a different Thomas movie would have taught him that throwing a tantrum doesn't really matter, he still gets his way in the end. Perhaps he will buy one for his own son one day. 

The point is, *the parents have to control THEMSELVES*, even if it hurts themselves, to teach their children and not spoil them.


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## jld

@Anon Pink

I think you are a terrific parent, AP. I know we do not always agree, but I always appreciate hearing your thoughts. You have three great girls. That says a lot.


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## Adelais

Anonymous07 said:


> I let my son do a lot, which I know can make other parents(even my husband) nervous, but I trust my son knowing his limits. He is super smart and strong. He's 2 and often will play on the "big kid" side of the park, climbing the large 'rock wall', jumping down the steep slides, and so on. He's been doing that since he was around 18 months old. He hasn't had any bad injuries yet. He needs the challenge(both mental and physical), otherwise he tends to get bored and can act out. He has that stubborn determination.


You can fix a broken arm, but it's hard to fix a broken spirit or a broken relationship.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Anonymous07 said:


> Thank you, but I often feel like I'm failing. I definitely struggle with him a lot.


You son is the perfect age for you to be doing your learning! Good job, Mom. This helped me a ton:

Parenting On Track | Vicki Hoefle

I would send it to you, but I loaned it out to someone. 

This one:

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-LI...450120580&sr=8-1&keywords=discipline+for+life

SAVED MY LIFE. I tell my now 15yo about how this book saved his bum from getting spanked. I spanked him once. He looked HURT! I was like, yah I need some new skills or I am going to turn into my mother. 

Also life savers for me were:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Talk-Kids...o+kids+will+listen+&+listen+so+kids+will+talk

http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limit...qid=1450120726&sr=8-2&keywords=setting+limits


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## jld

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> You can fix a broken arm, but it's hard to fix a broken spirit or a broken relationship.


Totally agree.


----------



## Anonymous07

NobodySpecial said:


> Different people have different motivators, to be sure. I was overjoyed to learn that it was me that was "failing". That way I could do something about it rather than living the rest of my life with an ill behaved strong willed kid!


I got a lot of parenting advice from well-meaning relatives and others, who basically told me I was failing as a parent. It didn't help and after a while, just got really annoying. This is just who my son is. It took a while, but my mom noticed it after a while and apologized for things she said earlier.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Anonymous07 said:


> I got a lot of parenting advice from well-meaning relatives and others, who basically told me I was failing as a parent. It didn't help and after a while, just got really annoying. This is just who my son is. It took a while, but my mom noticed it after a while and apologized for things she said earlier.


I never ever asked my Mom. Why would I? She was so damned mean. (That is I support and agree that family members are not ideal.) I did not want my kids to be more afraid of me than whatever trouble he/she might be dealing with. The thing about external resources like books is you can read them, say yah that makes sense to me, or not. The three books I regularly recommend are my 3 favorites that resonated with me and my kid(s). 

There is No Way In Hell my kids would be as easy going, helpful, responsible, motivated as teens if I had not learned a LOT back then.


----------



## jld

Anonymous07 said:


> I got a lot of parenting advice from well-meaning relatives and others, who basically told me I was failing as a parent. It didn't help and after a while, just got really annoying. This is just who my son is. It took a while, but my mom noticed it after a while and apologized for things she said earlier.


I am glad your mom did that. 

I feel uncomfortable around controlling parents. Not that we do not all have some of that in us. But too much makes me feel like the oxygen is getting sucked out of the room.

That said, my sister was controlling, and I still think her kids turned out fine. Lots of latitude to successful parenting, I guess!


----------



## jld

NobodySpecial said:


> I never ever asked my Mom. Why would I? She was so damned mean. (That is I support and agree that family members are not ideal.) I did not want my kids to be more afraid of me than whatever trouble he/she might be dealing with. The thing about external resources like books is you can read them, say yah that makes sense to me, or not. The three books I regularly recommend are my 3 favorites that resonated with me and my kid(s).
> 
> There is No Way In Hell my kids would be as easy going, helpful, responsible, motivated as teens if I had not learned a LOT back then.


I'm sorry to hear your mom was so mean to you, NS. 

And I am glad your own kids have not experienced that.


----------



## Anonymous07

NobodySpecial said:


> I never ever asked my Mom. Why would I? She was so damned mean. (That is I support and agree that family members are not ideal.) I did not want my kids to be more afraid of me than whatever trouble he/she might be dealing with. The thing about external resources like books is you can read them, say yah that makes sense to me, or not. The three books I regularly recommend are my 3 favorites that resonated with me and my kid(s).
> 
> There is No Way In Hell my kids would be as easy going, helpful, responsible, motivated as teens if I had not learned a LOT back then.


I'm sure you know as a parent that you tend to get a lot of unsolicited advice. I never asked my mom, or really anyone, for parenting advice, but I sure have received a lot over the last 2 years with my high needs son. Every one kept telling me advice on how to get him to sleep better, how to get him to behave better, etc. I still get people who try to give me advice, but I haven't asked for it. I've done plenty of reading and research on my own. I know my son very well and we're doing alright. My son is just a bit different in his personality. He just lives life to more extremes.


----------



## NobodySpecial

jld said:


> I'm sorry to hear your mom was so mean to you, NS.
> 
> And I am glad your own kids have not experienced that.


My Mom did the best she could. Each of us probably drags some balogna forward from our own upbringing. I remember my Mom saying when my son was teeny to slap his hand, it will hurt his feelings. I was like... YOU KNEW??? You did it ON PURPOSE?? lol.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Anonymous07 said:


> I'm sure you know as a parent that you tend to get a lot of unsolicited advice. I never asked my mom, or really anyone, for parenting advice, but I sure have received a lot over the last 2 years with my high needs son. Every one kept telling me advice on how to get him to sleep better, how to get him to behave better, etc. I still get people who try to give me advice, but I haven't asked for it. I've done plenty of reading and research on my own. I know my son very well and we're doing alright. My son is just a bit different in his personality. He just lives life to more extremes.


Ha! I just gave you unsolicited advice! But it is the interwebs, so you can ignore it if you like.


----------



## jld

NobodySpecial said:


> My Mom did the best she could. Each of us probably drags some balogna forward from our own upbringing. I remember my Mom saying when my son was teeny to slap his hand, it will hurt his feelings. I was like... YOU KNEW??? You did it ON PURPOSE?? lol.


That sounds so unkind. 

Was your mom from an abusive family?


----------



## jld

NobodySpecial said:


> Ha! I just gave you unsolicited advice! But it is the interwebs, so *you can ignore it if you like.*


This works well in all of life.


----------



## bobsmith

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> When I hear a child having a melt down in a public place, and I see the look of terror in the parent's eyes, I really feel sympathy for the parent.
> 
> That happened to me only once with my son. I hustled him and my other children out of the store, leaving the full cart behind, and gave him a spanking in the van in the parking lot. I always kept a swatter in the van, and the children knew it. I didn't go back in and buy the things in the cart. They all learned that day that if they *never* want to receive a particular toy, just throw a tantrum over it. No one else ever threw a tantrum in public, because they knew that their bottom would be bared in the van, in front of the others. Also, they learned that when mom whispers to them in a public place, they had better listen and obey.


THIS!!!! Why is my parenting style being questioned when others obvious parent the same way? This is exactly how I parent, though I rarely need to spank as I can usually get the point across in other ways. I don't yell at the little ones, but I make my expectations clear and I follow through, even if that means I am screwed on my day. 

EXAMPLES: 
ME
Go to store. Know I will likely have an issue. Communicate that we cannot scream in the store and need to stay by me or in the cart at all times. If you do not, we are either leaving, or you are going to the car with one parent while the other shops. Talk ended. I do allow some gray area here as they are young. I know for sure this little girl WILL look at me as she walks off just trying to test that boundary of how much is too much. I would probably offer 1-2 reminders when this happens an warn "warnings are up, you do it again, we have to leave". She of course does it again, and I don't care how big of a fit she throws, I will carry her out and to the car. She can throw the biggest fit she wants in the car. If it was truly my kid, I would spank that ass for throwing such a huge fit over something she did. 

MOM
Same situation other than no talk going in because that is "a senseless warning. you are just scaring her". Once the fits and walking off are already started, there will be empty promises of leaving or enticing with toys she finds in the store to keep her quiet until she an get shopping done. Her method is to divert her attention to something else. I realize this might sometimes work BUT we still have not addressed any boundary. Eventually the fits continue, the child is never removed, and everyone is stressed out. 

Here is another angle to mom. Similar situation but mom needs to run in and get something real quick. We are in a hurry. Child throws a huge fit because she wants to go in. Mom gives in to the screaming, takes child in, has a nightmare experience in the store with the child. I don't even agree with taking a screaming child in! 

We recently had to get her a different car with another seat because this child will not stop kicking my kids in the car while in her car seat. She tests BIG time! However, she is stepping over the line by kicking other kids. I would personally offer a couple warnings that a spanking is coming. Once we pull over, the child would flip out! Knowing a spanking is coming. Mom can barely control her and usually will not follow through. More reinforcement that fits get you what you want! 

I do not have all the answers but I feel I was raised by a saintly mother and my bro's wife has some type of master's degree in child development. There are some things I like such as "your whiny voice will not get you anything, please come back when you are ready to use your words". It sounds mean but you know what? That kid will be back in 1min with a different attitude! 


What I ALWAYS do after punishment is discuss how we got to that point and how we can change that. Referring to the sentence above, I would say "thank you for using your words". I can get along well with this child but I do honestly feel I have more child raising experiences from a nightmarish ADHD child, to a mild one. The tactics are different. One takes a loud voice and serious prompting. The other will cry and I know I need to bring it down, hug it out a bit, and work things differently.

I know with my kids, if I tell them walking into the store "I need you guys to hug my 6 until we depart", they will be stuck like glue. Not because they are scared of me, but because we have established that boundary that dad knows things that the kids don't and it is for good reason. We are then free to have a great shopping experience without issue.


----------



## turnera

You never answered my question. Have you discussed taking her to a therapist to discuss it in a safe environment?


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## bobsmith

turnera said:


> You never answered my question. Have you discussed taking her to a therapist to discuss it in a safe environment?


I am honestly debating the validity of the relationship if we need therapy before we are even married. 

My intention was to find a way to communicate that "we have differing parenting styles and we need to figure out if we can co-parent together". I sort of want to leave some of this open for her rather than attacking. 

BUT, we have already talked briefly on this because I get pretty irritated when her child disrespects me and I have to second guess my parenting instinct and let the child rule the day. She already knows I am not happy and she knows her daughter is hard and mom is VERY frustrated. 

It ends up rolling out of my mouth when I see the child in a complete fit, then mom gives her what she wants. "So reward her for the tantrum". She will usually reply with "what am I suppose to do then? Spank her ass and leave her in her room all day?"


It TOTALLY gets me when she says "Girls are different. You need to be more gentle and consider their feelings". Where does she get this????? I can't raise a girl??


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## Lila

Bob, 

Are you venting or asking for advice? If you're venting, then vent away. It's always better to do that here than to your girlfriend. 

If you're asking for advice then you really only have one move and that is stay with your gf (and accept her parenting skills) or leave. That's it. You are _ just _ the boyfriend. You have zero, zilch, nada authority to discipline that little girl. That's her mother's job. You can share your successful parenting techniques with her but you can't tell her how to raise her own child. 

You can only control yourself. If this is a deal breaker for you then tell your gf. 

This is going to sound blunt but I don't know how else to say it. Boyfriends will come and boyfriends will go, but a child is forever. I would have been more concerned if you'd said that your gf had given up her parenting style just to appease you.


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## bobsmith

I am honestly trying to learn here. I have learned from past experience that some things in people just will not change. If this is one of them, I don't want a part in it. Sad because kids are not in your house forever. The mom sees us being together forever. Funny though, I do honestly feel that enough men in her life have escaped and hurt her, that she is putting so much into the child. 

If this is what step parenting is going to feel like, I need to shop for someone without kids because I cannot go through life watching a child under my roof become a deviant and my only recourse is tell the mother. That will never be a good relationship. 

What is more sad is the child's father is not much of a father. He gets her just enough to make nothing but fun experiences so the child will grow up having nothing but fun with dad but will never really be parented by him. 

She was recently returned from a visitation with a private part so raw from lack of cleaning that the child was screaming in pain!! Another point in my life that I get to just walk away from. Told mom to document and take pictures and she said she would not do that to her daughter. Told her the cops certainly will! Then her sisters told her the same! 

This really is sorting out to be a failed relationship IMO.


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## Adelais

bobsmith, You have earned your children's respect since before they could even talk. Your GF has not done that with her daughter. She will not get the respect as long as she bribes her daughter and or lets her have her way. You will never have the daughter's respect as long as she knows mama will come to the rescue no matter how badly little girl behaves.

You already know that at 3, daughters should be "encouraged" or forced to follow the rules as much as a boy. When a daughter gets out of line, she should be treated the same as a son at that age. My daughters also got swats. However they got far fewer because they didn't have the rebellious angry spirit my son had. They also had more of a conscience and self regulated.

The little darling you are dealing with is not your daughter, and mama has made it clear that you have no authority over her.

I think that you two are incompatible. Parenting will become more stressful as the little girl grows up. Consider yourself lucky that you saw the writing on the wall before you were married and had your lives thoroughly enmeshed.

Get out, now!


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## Adelais

bobsmith said:


> She was recently returned from a visitation with a private part so raw from lack of cleaning that the child was screaming in pain!! Another point in my life that I get to just walk away from. Told mom to document and take pictures and she said she would not do that to her daughter. Told her the cops certainly will! Then her sisters told her the same!
> 
> This really is sorting out to be a failed relationship IMO.


Are you sure it was just because she hadn't been cleaned well enough? 

If that is the case, Dad, being absent, might not know enough about children's hygiene, and doesn't want to spend too much time cleaning "down there" out of respect for the girl and to stay out of trouble.

If he is sexually abusing her, the CPS counselors will be gentle with the little girl, and not traumatize her too much. They won't go after him for poor hygiene, but you could mess his life up by bringing them into it, until they figure out the real cause for the irritation. 

I'd leave it alone if you are sure he is just not cleaning her well enough. She'll not need his help soon enough.


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## Lila

bobsmith said:


> *If this is what step parenting is going to feel like, I need to shop for someone without kids* because I cannot go through life watching a child under my roof become a deviant and my only recourse is tell the mother. That will never be a good relationship.
> 
> ......
> 
> This really is sorting out to be a failed relationship IMO.


Step parenting blended families can be difficult under the best of circumstances. In a situation like your current one, it's practically impossible. The hurdles you're experiencing right now are common enough that studies have shown it's the main reason for the higher than average divorce rates on 2nd marriages. 

You are correct that your best bet to avoid this sort of situation in the long run is to find a woman with no children or with grown children.


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## bobsmith

IM, I appreciate your responses. Sometimes I wonder if I am the only parent that sees things a certain way. I LOVE kids!!! I am going to truly miss out on 15 potential great nieces/nephews. They always ask where I am. I am always eager to see them. 

Trying not to make this into a relationship thread but I thought I might throw some things out, just for opinion on if these would be big flags? I consider them to be recent deal killers. 

1. A recent family matter in my family. I neglected to tell my SO because we are not family and this was a sensitive matter. She attacked me that I did not tell her because that is what partners do. It is not that I wanted to withhold forever, but for now, IMO, that was not need-to-know information. 

2. Another similar family matter came up. After the attacks from a previous situation, I confided in her, along with asking for confidence. She immediately told all her siblings and insists it will go no further. I know better. I know how people work. When my SO cannot keep something in the family and understand why we might do that, it saddens me. 

3. HOWEVER, apparently my family life is fair game BUT she had an abortion years ago and to this day will not tell her family because "they will not understand". They are so not-understanding that you should probably tell them my personal matters tho....

4. I am constantly attacked for not staying in solid contact with her via text all day long. She of course says that is not the case but then rips me a new one because I don't reply for a couple hours about "how is your day going". I have tried to explain that I do mental tasks at work and when my brain is diverted, I lose focus on my job. Sorry that your job is so mundane that you can do that. Mine is not. She then says she sees me on facebook but I say I am "sooo busy". I have tried to explain that I take small breaks. I hardly see spending 5min on facebook a few times/day as lying about work. 

I guess I could go on and on but I think 1-3 tend to tell me a LOT about character. I remain at least confident in myself that I can keep things private when requested and I could tell my mom I was a male lesbian and she would be upset yet understanding and still confidential.


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## Anon Pink

@anonymous 07, 

I never said this Mom was failing as a parent. Her big issue is her intolerance for her child's tears. What child is going to shrug their shoulders and say oh well when Mom says NO? They will all show disappointment to utter devastation to violent outburst depending on their own temperament. If a parent can't handle their child's tears that parent needs to work on themselves, not parenting skills, because no matter what skills a parent has they will find a way to sabotage themselves to end their child's tears.

Furthermore you son is 2, not 3. A 2 year old will challenge and test limits, that's why it's called terrible twos. I think you'll find next year that your son will be less likely to toss fits and challenge, and more amenable to redirection which a 2 year old isn't as capable of.

If I've said something thT made you feel attacked I apologize. Please know that that was not at all my intention.


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## Adelais

bobsmith said:


> IM, I appreciate your responses. Sometimes I wonder if I am the only parent that sees things a certain way. I LOVE kids!!! I am going to truly miss out on 15 potential great nieces/nephews. They always ask where I am. I am always eager to see them.
> 
> Trying not to make this into a relationship thread but I thought I might throw some things out, just for opinion on if these would be big flags? I consider them to be recent deal killers.
> 
> 1. A recent family matter in my family. I neglected to tell my SO because we are not family and this was a sensitive matter. She attacked me that I did not tell her because that is what partners do. It is not that I wanted to withhold forever, but for now, IMO, that was not need-to-know information.
> You are not married or even engaged. You have a right to privacy, and certainly your family members do. She is overstepping boundaries and sounds a bit pathetic.
> 
> 
> 2. Another similar family matter came up. After the attacks from a previous situation, I confided in her, along with asking for confidence. She immediately told all her siblings and insists it will go no further. I know better. I know how people work. When my SO cannot keep something in the family and understand why we might do that, it saddens me.
> She cannot be trusted to keep a confidence. She also went back on her word. This is her character. Pay close attention, this is not going to change.
> 
> 
> 3. HOWEVER, apparently my family life is fair game BUT she had an abortion years ago and to this day will not tell her family because "they will not understand". They are so not-understanding that you should probably tell them my personal matters tho....
> Her abortion is her business. Her family doesn't need to know. She probably has good reasons for not telling them. She trusts you with it. You do not have the right to tell them about it. If she is keeping serious secrets like that from you, then worry about it.
> 
> 
> 4. I am constantly attacked for not staying in solid contact with her via text all day long. She of course says that is not the case but then rips me a new one because I don't reply for a couple hours about "how is your day going". I have tried to explain that I do mental tasks at work and when my brain is diverted, I lose focus on my job. Sorry that your job is so mundane that you can do that. Mine is not. She then says she sees me on facebook but I say I am "sooo busy". I have tried to explain that I take small breaks. I hardly see spending 5min on facebook a few times/day as lying about work.
> I'm not one to need constant communication, or chit chat throughout the day. However, if you can go to FB for 5 minutes, can't you use that time to reply to her texts instead? Obviously you are taking little breaks. Now, if you don't want to talk with her, but want to just take a break and mindlessly look at FB, tell her that. She sounds a bit needy, immature, and like she has poor boundaries. Can you handle all that?
> 
> 
> I guess I could go on and on but I think 1-3 tend to tell me a LOT about character. I remain at least confident in myself that I can keep things private when requested and I could tell my mom I was a male lesbian and she would be upset yet understanding and still confidential.


 LOL, you have a great mom! Your GF sounds like she is nothing like your mom.


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## bobsmith

LOL. The text thing has been brought up several times. It is not the one text, it is the chain that follows. I cannot divert 30x/day for a simple "just working away". I probably need to find a normal for me in this. I did not text until a couple yrs ago. I think "needy" fits, personally. I also tend to suck with remembering about texts! I also miss them. I am also around noisy equipment or dirty. She does not get it. If I am lowering a truss on a structure when the "beep beep" goes off, you really think I will remember that in 30min? 

I feel I am trying. I have always said, if not urgent-text, if urgent-call, if no answer-call many time until someone say whatup. 


I will admit, I am not an easy person and still not sure what type I belong with. 

I am: 

1. A heavy thinker. Engineer so I want to fix, repair, invent, inspire
2. Perfectionist. I don't like things torn up! It goes back to engineering. I have reasons. 
3. Passionate. in about everything. I don't like half ass. From myself or my kids. 
4. Too honest about my opinion. I find flaws in things, even my own work. I find it hard to say "that looks great", when it sucks IMO. I need help. 
5. I have goals. Keep running into people that just want to "exist". No I don't want to watch the game, I want to build a better space shuttle. 
6. I can relax but it makes me feel guilty. I should be thinking about something. 
7. Used to be an athlete and will always be in me to competitive. Sometimes a little ****y. 


What I will need: 

1. Someone VERY understanding. 
2. Smart as a whip. Cover some bases I suck at. Like remembering things!
3. Accept my engineering flaws. I WILL NOT call someone to fix anything. Never have. 
4. Can pull me back in when I am out designing too long. I need redirection like a puppy. 
5. If I am up late at night on the net, I am not cheating, I am trying to learn a new computer programming language. 
6. A MOTHER! Someone so good at it that I will need lessons from her!


----------



## frusdil

Op, whether you like it or whether you don't, the fact remains that you ARE only her mum's boyfriend, and not even a live in one. You have no business disciplining or parenting this little girl. NONE. If you were to become engaged to her mother, things could slowly start to change, but not before that point.

What you CAN do though, is let your gf know that you are very concerned about the two of your differing parenting styles, and tell her that for the relationship to move forward, changes need to be made.

This is what I did. I am now stepmum to my husbands beautiful 11 year old daughter, and we are very close. Hubby, her mother and myself consider ourselves a parenting team of 3 (though I always defer to them, there's a line you don't cross as a step parent). It wasn't always this way though. I met SD when she was 6, and the moment I met her, I sensed something...couldn't explain it...but something. Her behaviour could be absolutely appalling. She could tantrum for HOURS. An entire day! She would kick, scream, bite, hit, cry - you name it, she'd do it. This was continuing as she grew and it got to the point where I said to my husband that something needed to be done or I would move out on the days she was with us (50/50 custody) as I simply couldn't live with that behaviour. Both her parents up to this point believed she was "spoilt" and traumatised from their divorce. They still considered her behaviour normal for her age!! I said to my husband that it was NOT normal for 7 year olds to bite their parents in a tantrum.

As I got to know her, I suspected that she was on the ASD spectrum. I mentioned this to my husband but he refused to entertain the idea...finally after another year went by he spoke to her mother after yet another meltdown over absolutely nothing, that went on for hours. Mum agreed for her to see a child psychologist and to cut a long story short, after another year of appointments and finally the assessment she was finally diagnosed as ASD.

Your gf's daughter may need a different parenting style, or there may be something brewing...she may well be ASD (ODD is very common in ASD children). Just because you have an ASD child doesn't mean that you know how to parent all ASD kids, anymore than my husband and I do. What works for our daughter won't necessarily work for another ASD child who has different issues to our girl. ASD girls are VERY different to ASD boys also, and the spectrum is far ranging...

In short, the only thing you can do is speak to your girlfriend about your concerns - not in accusatory, criticising way but in a "how can we overcome this together" way. But you can't discipline or parent that little girl. That is not your job as the boyfriend, it's her mothers.


----------



## turnera

bobsmith said:


> I am honestly debating the validity of the relationship if we need therapy before we are even married.
> 
> My intention was to find a way to communicate that "we have differing parenting styles and we need to figure out if we can co-parent together". I sort of want to leave some of this open for her rather than attacking.


See, here's the thing. You are obviously too afraid to put your foot down. To speak your piece. TO SET A BOUNDARY.

Because you're too afraid to set a boundary, I suggest telling her "I have an issue that I'm having trouble talking to you about and I would like to do it in front of a counselor so she can guide us to discussing it in a healthy way." No attacking. Explaining something you need.

Are you aware, btw, what a boundary/consequence really is? Many people don't really understand. They think it's something you make someone else do. It's not. 

A boundary is a 'rule' about yourself that you won't allow others to mess with. For example, I won't be yelled at. The resulting consequence is something YOU do (not the other person) as a result of your boundary being crossed. For example, the consequence to being yelled at would be to LEAVE THE ROOM. YOU do it, the other person has nothing to say about it, and leaving the room (1) protects you from further yelling and (2) teaches the other person to respect you and your boundaries, since you are no longer in the room participating in the 'being yelled at.'

So in your case, a boundary would look like 'I don't accept letting a child dictate where we eat dinner, unless we have both agreed upon it.' And a resulting consequence might look like 'If you allow your daughter to get her way and we have to leave the restaurant I picked out just because she wants McDonalds and throws a fit, I'm going to leave you at McDonalds and go back to eat my meal in peace.'

It's not telling her what to do, it's telling her what YOU will do if you're made to feel uncomfortable. She is then free to decide whether to respect you and your boundary.

ETA: Exactly what frusdil is saying. Her boundary was to not to have to live in a house like that, and her consequence was that she would move out.


----------



## Omego

turnera said:


> It's not telling her what to do, it's telling her what YOU will do if you're made to feel uncomfortable. She is then free to decide whether to respect you and your boundary.
> 
> .


:iagree: This is exactly what I did in a similar situation. Setting a boundary will bring you peace of mind and help you feel like you're in control of SOMETHING. I couldn't change my step children's upbringing and values, but I could definitely make decisions about what I would do if they did not respect my values in my own home.


----------



## Adelais

bobsmith said:


> LOL. The text thing has been brought up several times. It is not the one text, it is the chain that follows. I cannot divert 30x/day for a simple "just working away". I probably need to find a normal for me in this. I did not text until a couple yrs ago. I think "needy" fits, personally. I also tend to suck with remembering about texts! I also miss them. I am also around noisy equipment or dirty. She does not get it. If I am lowering a truss on a structure when the "beep beep" goes off, you really think I will remember that in 30min?
> 
> I feel I am trying. I have always said, if not urgent-text, if urgent-call, if no answer-call many time until someone say whatup.
> 
> I'm sure you've told her this. You will need to tell her what your "limit" for texting is. Two a day? I am like you. I don't want to get silly little nonsense texts all day long. "Whacha doing?.......... Where are you?............. It's snowing here what about where you are?............Doing OK?............Hi..........." Those texts just interrupt my day and make me irritable. When we first got our smart phones, the children texted a lot. They were having fun, I understand it. I wasn't mean, and let them do it for a few weeks, then I established the rules. I explained that if I'm driving I could get in an accident reading texts. Also, it slows me down to pull over to read them, and I want to get home ASAP. If I'm paying at a cashier, it is a rude interruption. I've asked my children and husband to text me if the house is burning down or if someone has hurt themself, or if they need me to run by the grocery store and get something important while I'm out. If the children need permission to do something and Dad isn't home to give them permission, THEN WAIT UNTIL I AM HOME. I totally get you about the texting.
> 
> Your GF is a grown woman, she should be able to get by without constantly checking in. Again, she sounds needy, or maybe even controlling of your personal time.
> I will admit, I am not an easy person and still not sure what type I belong with.
> 
> I am:
> 
> 1. A heavy thinker. Engineer so I want to fix, repair, invent, inspire
> 2. Perfectionist. I don't like things torn up! It goes back to engineering. I have reasons.
> 3. Passionate. in about everything. I don't like half ass. From myself or my kids.
> 4. Too honest about my opinion. I find flaws in things, even my own work. I find it hard to say "that looks great", when it sucks IMO. I need help.
> 5. I have goals. Keep running into people that just want to "exist". No I don't want to watch the game, I want to build a better space shuttle.
> 6. I can relax but it makes me feel guilty. I should be thinking about something.
> 7. Used to be an athlete and will always be in me to competitive. Sometimes a little ****y.
> 
> You will be perfect for the right woman who appreciates an analytic thinker and a doer.
> 
> 
> What I will need:
> 
> 1. Someone VERY understanding.
> 2. Smart as a whip. Cover some bases I suck at. Like remembering things!
> 3. Accept my engineering flaws. I WILL NOT call someone to fix anything. Never have.
> 4. Can pull me back in when I am out designing too long. I need redirection like a puppy.
> 5. If I am up late at night on the net, I am not cheating, I am trying to learn a new computer programming language.
> 6. A MOTHER! Someone so good at it that I will need lessons from her!
> 
> She is out there. Be patient.


----------



## turnera

Whoa, I missed the part about her constantly texting you.

Run. Fast.

This woman is not good marriage material.


----------



## bobsmith

frusdil said:


> Op, whether you like it or whether you don't, the fact remains that you ARE only her mum's boyfriend, and not even a live in one. You have no business disciplining or parenting this little girl. NONE. If you were to become engaged to her mother, things could slowly start to change, but not before that point.
> 
> What you CAN do though, is let your gf know that you are very concerned about the two of your differing parenting styles, and tell her that for the relationship to move forward, changes need to be made.
> 
> This is what I did. I am now stepmum to my husbands beautiful 11 year old daughter, and we are very close. Hubby, her mother and myself consider ourselves a parenting team of 3 (though I always defer to them, there's a line you don't cross as a step parent). It wasn't always this way though. I met SD when she was 6, and the moment I met her, I sensed something...couldn't explain it...but something. Her behaviour could be absolutely appalling. She could tantrum for HOURS. An entire day! She would kick, scream, bite, hit, cry - you name it, she'd do it. This was continuing as she grew and it got to the point where I said to my husband that something needed to be done or I would move out on the days she was with us (50/50 custody) as I simply couldn't live with that behaviour. Both her parents up to this point believed she was "spoilt" and traumatised from their divorce. They still considered her behaviour normal for her age!! I said to my husband that it was NOT normal for 7 year olds to bite their parents in a tantrum.
> 
> As I got to know her, I suspected that she was on the ASD spectrum. I mentioned this to my husband but he refused to entertain the idea...finally after another year went by he spoke to her mother after yet another meltdown over absolutely nothing, that went on for hours. Mum agreed for her to see a child psychologist and to cut a long story short, after another year of appointments and finally the assessment she was finally diagnosed as ASD.
> 
> Your gf's daughter may need a different parenting style, or there may be something brewing...she may well be ASD (ODD is very common in ASD children). Just because you have an ASD child doesn't mean that you know how to parent all ASD kids, anymore than my husband and I do. What works for our daughter won't necessarily work for another ASD child who has different issues to our girl. ASD girls are VERY different to ASD boys also, and the spectrum is far ranging...
> 
> In short, the only thing you can do is speak to your girlfriend about your concerns - not in accusatory, criticising way but in a "how can we overcome this together" way. But you can't discipline or parent that little girl. That is not your job as the boyfriend, it's her mothers.




I really think THIS is where I will have issue for the rest of my being with this child and her mother. The mother increasing blames me when I decide I have had enough. I either leave or get away from the child. The child may even follow me to continue the drama! Keep in mind I have an authoritative parenting style and I can see right through this little girl. 

I will offer yet another example that just happened. Mom came and picked up my kids and I to look at xmas lights. I sat in the passenger seat. My children were perfect as usual as they were well taught to behave in the car, being such a confined area. I had to listen to the child whine about nonsense. We stop, she wanted to move. We move, she wants to stop. Kicking the back of my seat the whole time. Mom of course tries to stop it but it won't work, I know that. Then I got the "why are you being so quiet?" Probably because I was smoking pissed. 

I know I will not be able to handle this continually. Eventually I would blow up and put this child in her place and mom would rip into me. 

I have also been scolded for putting ear plugs in while driving because I get tired of listening to this child whine and cry about nothing. 

So how do you expect this step parent roll to go? Would I normally end up being just dead weight to the step child, with no authority to parent? It seems a recipe for a VERY short relationship>>>divorce......

It also puts me in a very odd point being around both my children, and hers. When "trying" to watch a movie, we are all in the same room. My kids want to watch the movie, so do I, so does mom. The child NEVER watches the movie, she flips out and bugs everyone. What tore me down was listening to mom say "everyone be quiet and watch the movie", and my kids look at me like "what did I do?" It is a sad situation and really seems I need to get my kids out of it. They don't deserve that. They are not angels but they listen, and do not whine normally.


----------



## Anonymous07

bobsmith said:


> LOL. The text thing has been brought up several times. It is not the one text, it is the chain that follows. I cannot divert 30x/day for a simple "just working away". I probably need to find a normal for me in this. I did not text until a couple yrs ago. I think "needy" fits, personally. I also tend to suck with remembering about texts! I also miss them. I am also around noisy equipment or dirty. She does not get it. If I am lowering a truss on a structure when the "beep beep" goes off, you really think I will remember that in 30min?
> 
> Does she get a lot of your attention when you are together? How much time do you get to spend together as a couple? It sounds like she's not getting what she wants from you and keeps trying for it, even when you're at work. She could be needy or it can be a sign of something else missing. That's something to think about.
> 
> I feel I am trying. I have always said, if not urgent-text, if urgent-call, if no answer-call many time until someone say whatup.
> 
> That's realistic.
> 
> I will admit, I am not an easy person and still not sure what type I belong with.
> 
> I am:
> 
> 1. A heavy thinker. Engineer so I want to fix, repair, invent, inspire
> 2. Perfectionist. I don't like things torn up! It goes back to engineering. I have reasons. That does not mix well with being a parent. Kids will never be perfect and you'll have to learn to let things go in order to parent well. I've had to learn it myself.
> 3. Passionate. in about everything. I don't like half ass. From myself or my kids.
> 4. Too honest about my opinion. I find flaws in things, even my own work. I find it hard to say "that looks great", when it sucks IMO. I need help. You know this is an issue and I hope you're working on it.
> 5. I have goals. Keep running into people that just want to "exist".Maybe their goal is to enjoy the now, since tomorrow is not guaranteed. Just because someone has a different goal than you does not make it any less important. No I don't want to watch the game, I want to build a better space shuttle.
> 6. I can relax but it makes me feel guilty. I should be thinking about something.
> 7. Used to be an athlete and will always be in me to competitive. Sometimes a little ****y.
> 
> 
> What I will need:
> 
> 1. Someone VERY understanding.
> 2. Smart as a whip. Cover some bases I suck at. Like remembering things!
> 3. Accept my engineering flaws. I WILL NOT call someone to fix anything. Never have. This is pretty dumb and part of being strong/smart, is knowing when to ask for help.
> 4. Can pull me back in when I am out designing too long. I need redirection like a puppy. You need to learn boundaries. What is more important, family or your work?
> 5. If I am up late at night on the net, I am not cheating, I am trying to learn a new computer programming language.
> 6. A MOTHER! Someone so good at it that I will need lessons from her!
> Parenting is a learning process. You won't find someone who knows it all right off the bat and it changes as the child gets older and will be different for each kid. Your perfectionist expectations will get you no where.


I think you need to step back from thinking you are so perfect and realize you have a number of things to work on yourself. You seem to be completely into your work with the way you talk about yourself and your girlfriend wants more of you/your time. Both of you also need to learn more about parenting. You can either look into working on this all together or just leave.


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## Lilac23

bobsmith said:


> THIS!!!! If it was truly my kid, I would spank that ass for throwing such a huge fit over something she did.


I actually commend her for not letting you spank the kid! You're a boyfriend, not even a live-in or a husband. You may have been dating for a while and be somewhat serious but what would this say to the child if the mother let you spank her? Time-out is one thing but physical discipline should be left solely to the mother, in this case.



bobsmith said:


> I know with my kids, if I tell them walking into the store "I need you guys to hug my 6 until we depart", they will be stuck like glue.


Former military by any chance? 

How often do you play with this child? Just play and relax with her, not looking out for any behaviors you deem inappropriate? If you are all doom and gloom and constantly saying "no" or "don't do that" it's no wonder she looks at you as the enemy and her mother as the savior. I would work on really making a relationship with this child, where you enjoy her company and she enjoys yours, before leaping into disciplining her. Work on saying "yes" more than "no" to her. Disengage during her behaviors and let her mother handle her, it's not your role and you will only unite them more against you.


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## Adelais

Your differences in child rearing will not fade or go away. It will only get worse if you marry her. In addition, it will create problems with your own children.

You need to give the woman (and her child) up. Move on. There are other fish in the sea.


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