# People who have affairs lie. I know I did. I lied to myself



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I told myself that I wasn't having an affair.

But I was lying to myself. I was deluding myself.

Just thought I'd share this piece of introspection with you.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Thanks. Wish my STBXW could have done the same. Still to this day falls back on her stories of neglect, emotional abuse, controlling behavior and anything else she can fathom that people would accept as an excuse for her behavior and justify her actions.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Thanks. Wish my STBXW could have done the same. Still to this day falls back on her stories of neglect, emotional abuse, controlling behavior and anything else she can fathom that people would accept as an excuse for her behavior and justify her actions.


A lie? Or an erroneous belief based on the idea that as they are perfect, then, why, it must have been _your_ fault?


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> A lie? Or an erroneous belief based on the idea that as they are perfect, then, why, it must have been _your_ fault?


Depends on your frame of mind. 

A lie from where I stand as nothing was backed in truth or fact (therefor it must be a lie or fabrication/story).

From her point, she remembers everything perfectly and it was her "truth" as she can see it all perfectly in her mind (and only hers as several told her those things never occurred and had proof they didn't occur, but none could convince her to see it otherwise and she never claimed to be perfect just not the one at fault. LOL like there is a difference there!)


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

I try to lie to myself.....but I really suck at self delusion......thus massive amounts of guilt and self hate. I continue to come here to figure myself out and break loose of my inappropriate friend. EAs can be such odd things. ...especially ones not based on sex or romance...uggghhhh


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## MrsDraper (May 27, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> I told myself that I wasn't having an affair.
> 
> But I was lying to myself. I was deluding myself.
> 
> Just thought I'd share this piece of introspection with you.


Interesting. How did you justify that your relationship outside of a marriage wasn't an affair? What was your line of thinking?


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

I know you were not asking me...... but when I started my inappropriate friendship I didnt even know such a thing as EAs existed....I figured I was on the high road as long as no sex occurred...I have learned a lot since then.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

To be honest. we humans are rationalizing beings. We seek out what gives us that dopamine rush, and makes us feel good. 

We seek pleasure and avoid pain. That is why sometimes we lie or trick ourselves. I think that as kids, if we learn to communicate and express ourselves, we would be healthier adults. Just look at most beginning posters. Denial is one of those hards things to break, even though they will give ample evidence in their posts about an affair. I think acceptence is hard for many.


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr.Fisty said:


> To be honest. we humans are rationalizing beings. We seek out what gives us that dopamine rush, and makes us feel good.
> 
> We seek pleasure and avoid pain. That is why sometimes we lie or trick ourselves. I think that as kids, if we learn to communicate and express ourselves, we would be healthier adults. Just look at most beginning posters. Denial is one of those hards things to break, even though they will give ample evidence in their posts about an affair. I think acceptence is hard for many.


well stated.... and the biggest issue is when someone actually starts to believe the lies one tells to themselves. I think the internal conflict from this is what causes so many ws to act as real flakes.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

A Lie is an opinion based on self awareness. I can tell a lie to someone with the notion of wanting them to believe it so in turn my lie is a truth, one I am trying to sell. Dishonesty to ones self happens all the time we are just not accustomed to accepting the truth, because in most aspect of life we need not try to accept it. huh? What does that mean you may ask? 

I am good/Happy at my job, I am a good driver, I don't mind driving a mini-van, I am nice to others, I am a good parent, I am a wonderful Husband/Wife, I am happy where I am in life, I don't mind going last to let others go first..... Add your own dynamic which you think you are happy or good at something. I may very well be the exact opposite of all of these but I don't believe them unless I think about it, usually unwillingly.

Cheaters are no different as they're lies are to them the truth, a belief, this is what makes them so difficult to deal with, to them it is not a lie, to them what they are doing is not wrong and the hurt it caused others is not their fault or problem.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

IIJokerII said:


> A Lie is an opinion based on self awareness. I can tell a lie to someone with the notion of wanting them to believe it so in turn my lie is a truth, one I am trying to sell. Dishonesty to ones self happens all the time we are just not accustomed to accepting the truth, because in most aspect of life we need not try to accept it. huh? What does that mean you may ask?
> 
> Cheaters are no different as they're lies are to them the truth, a belief, this is what makes them so difficult to deal with, to them it is not a lie, to them what they are doing is not wrong and the hurt it caused others is not their fault or problem.


Sorry but this is wrong. A lie is a false statement told to intentionally deceive someone and not an "opinion". It is NEVER a truth. Someone MAY tell the lie with the full belief within themselves that they "believe" it to be a truth and are telling the truth, but that doesn't make it a truth or true, it is still a lie.

Most cheaters are not telling lies with the belief that they think them to be true or a truth (this of course is not including the mentally debilitated as they don't opeate within the constraints of "normal" society), they know they are a lie, but want to believe them and constantly tell them with the hope that at some point they will become a "truth" and convince others of their culpability and justification.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> *I told myself that I wasn't having an affair.*
> 
> But I was lying to myself. I was deluding myself.


MM,

Very True from what I've seen...

My FWW told me that She convinced herself that she was not really in an Affair with Boss... He was just a friend that understood her and was attentive to her feelings. She says she was never in Love with him. 

Mind you, she was sleeping with him for years. 

Crazy Town... :scratchhead:


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Sorry but this is wrong. A lie is a false statement told to intentionally deceive someone and not an "opinion". It is NEVER a truth. Someone MAY tell the lie with the full belief within themselves that they "believe" it to be a truth and are telling the truth, but that doesn't make it a truth or true, it is still a lie.
> 
> Most cheaters are not telling lies with the belief that they think them to be true or a truth (this of course is not including the mentally debilitated as they don't opeate within the constraints of "normal" society), they know they are a lie, but want to believe them and constantly tell them with the hope that at some point they will become a "truth" and convince others of their culpability and justification.


You own quote disagrees with you "2 people in the same everything can perceive it differently". People who lie WANT it to be the truth, despite knowing it is not. That is why unless undeniable evidence to any contrary will always see a liar carry the façade till the end. I ain't saying it is right, but belief will always trump logical thinking.


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## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Thanks. Wish my STBXW could have done the same. *Still to this day falls back on her stories of neglect, emotional abuse, controlling behavior and anything else she can fathom that people would accept as an excuse for her behavior and justify her actions.*


This is exactly what my STBX has been doing since DDay, and it has worked. She has her family convinced that it is all my fault, and I can't explain how they believe it but they do. It seems so plain to me what she has done, but I guess STBX has convinced herself and others that it wasn't her fault.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

dadof2 said:


> This is exactly what my STBX has been doing since DDay, and it has worked. She has her family convinced that it is all my fault, and I can't explain how they believe it but they do. It seems so plain to me what she has done, but I guess STBX has convinced herself and others that it wasn't her fault.


Dadof2,

I know your story and it is really close to mine, so sorry for your pain. Teacher, cheater, mother, liar, undying family support through and through. I have just cut ties with them and her and let her continue her course of self destruction as eventually I can hope she will look back and have some regrets for her lies, beaver and actions. It is all I can hope for. Keep your chin up like I am trying to do.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

IIJokerII said:


> You own quote disagrees with you "2 people in the same everything can perceive it differently". People who lie WANT it to be the truth, despite knowing it is not. That is why unless undeniable evidence to any contrary will always see a liar carry the façade till the end. I ain't saying it is right, but belief will always trump logical thinking.


It does not contradict, it is an entirely different concept. Perceptions are not truth. Lies are not truth. Only fact based and verifiable statements/things/issues are truth. Perceptions are just opinions and beliefs (which can sometimes also be a truth if they are fact based and verifiable).

My signature only says the two have entirely different perceptions of the same situation, and in no way says either of these are truth, or addresses truth within it (as both could be different sides of a lie with no truth involved and neither is right or wrong just different viewpoints).


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Like I said, humans are good at avoiding pain, and consequences. We are built that way. How many marriages do you see where the couples avoid the issues. They don't want to face the facts that they are failing, that they are not good enough, and people will hide secrets so no one will see the truth. Everyone wants everyone else to believe the image that they portray out there. 

Also, we are good at compartmentalizing parts of our lives. When someone is there with their affair partner, they seal off thoughts of their family, otherwise, they would stop and the guilt would not make good sex.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

per Sqyeakr:

Thanks. Wish my STBXW could have done the same. Still to this day falls back on her stories of neglect, emotional abuse, controlling behavior and anything else she can fathom that people would accept as an excuse for her behavior and justify her actions. 





Me: In many cases, not all but in many, the old 'abuse' stories are gaslighting and nothing more, a weak way of justifying the unjustifiable, an affair.

Sorry you went through that Squeakr.


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## yeah_right (Oct 23, 2013)

oneMOreguy said:


> I try to lie to myself.....but I really suck at self delusion......thus massive amounts of guilt and self hate. I continue to come here to figure myself out and break loose of my inappropriate friend. EAs can be such odd things. ...especially ones not based on sex or romance...uggghhhh


I've seen quite a few of your posts and you always refer to your relationship with the OW as an inappropriate friendship rather than an EA. I am not trying to jump on you, but am curious why you don't come out and call it an EA. I would be interested in hearing your reason for the simple fact that this is the exact term my H used at first after DDay. He will now call it what it is and admits it was cheating, but at first he threw around the term "inappropriate friendship" quite a bit. His reasoning was that because there was no sex or use of the love word, it did not constitute an actual affair. He was lying to himself.

Again, I am not trying to bash you. Just curious for the male perspective. I commend that you come on TAM and recognize problems.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

As a B.S. spouse I have no issue admitting I might not have been perfect or even a d!ck at times.. But I wasn't an Ogre..

AND

I would have done what was needed to fix my marriage if that was the cause of my Ex wife unhappiness. 

She didn't need to cheat on me or look to cheat repeatedly..

She should have had faith in me and in us to make things better..

----------------------------------------

As for MattMatt posting I appreciate your honesty it goes a long way..

As for the rest of the debate over lying or not lying or not knowing your lying.. All I can say is if am as fvcked up as I think I am over my Ex wife affair and subsequent divorce and all the insecurities it has plagued me with, I can understand and clearly relate my Ex wife has issues as well. 

The difference is that some of us are understanding and willing to accept we have those issues and are looking to fix them and others are not. Which just makes them destined to repeat this behavior eventually..


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

yeah_right said:


> oneMOreguy said:
> 
> 
> > I try to lie to myself.....but I really suck at self delusion......thus massive amounts of guilt and self hate. I continue to come here to figure myself out and break loose of my inappropriate friend. EAs can be such odd things. ...especially ones not based on sex or romance...uggghhhh
> ...


I am not ignoring you. ..I just need to use pc instead of cell for a full answer....I hope things are going better with your husband now.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrsDraper said:


> Interesting. How did you justify that your relationship outside of a marriage wasn't an affair? What was your line of thinking?


I was drinking way too much, hurt and broken by my wife's affair, OW was just a friend. Only she wasn't just a friend. But I was able to start flying right before it went too far.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> I was drinking way too much, hurt and broken by my wife's affair, OW was just a friend. Only she wasn't just a friend. But I was able to start flying right before it went too far.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did it help you heal any faster thou Matt? Did it help balance the relationship without really knowing so. Did it level the playing field so that now you both could really start to rebuild from the real bottom up? Did it help each understand each other better? Just curious? 

~sammy


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I told myself that I wasn't having an affair.
> 
> But I was lying to myself. I was deluding myself.
> 
> Just thought I'd share this piece of introspection with you.


You look back on it and have decided you were deluding yourself. That's what prevents repeats. It's easy to justify and rationalize and blame shift so introspection is a good thing.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I was drinking way too much, hurt and broken by my wife's affair, OW was just a friend. Only she wasn't just a friend. But I was able to start flying right before it went too far.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Matt,

I have heard portions of you story and let me tell you, you are a much better man than most. As I said to you before, in a strange way you instance was preferable to most others as nearly all the craptacular aspects of the traditional affair, gaslighting, blame shifting, etc, were bypassed for the truth of the matter; She told you she was leaving to have an affair and she'd be back. Did she ever tell you what compelled her to do so? 

How the hell did you all make it?


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