# How do you know when you have done all you can do?



## stumped (May 16, 2008)

Ok so some of you have probably already read part of my story....so here is some more.

I havent been bringing up our relationship a whole lot on advice from people, basically because you dont want to beat a dead horse and when it gets brought up I tend to be the one getting hurt.

I did bring it up about 2 weeks ago because I couldn't take it anymore. I wasn't nasty or mean we didnt yell or fight we actually both cried. But these are the things he is telling me....he thinks I am a great and wonderful person, I am his best friend, he doesnt hate me he never could but he doesnt want to be married anymore. He says he is happiest alone he enjoys sleeping alone he says that he sleeps better and gets up easier on his own. He told me that he thinks I deserve better but he cant tell me why and everytime I asked him what the problems are he responds with "I dont Know" I must have heard that 50 times. He also told me that he hasnt been happy for over 4 years! When I asked him why he hadnt told his family he said it was none of their business and he didnt need to hear them tell him what a dumb ass he is being. He said my Mom is just going to cry. He also goes through these self loathing periods where he says he has no friends (which isnt true) and that he is stupid etc.

I told him that they only definitive answer I could come up with that was a big problem was my weight and he agreed that is a big problem for him but that isnt it. Yet he couldnt tell me what the other things are. He also said that our sex life was lacking which I will agree that it wasnt everyday but no where near as bad as some of the stories I have seen on here. But in my opinion sex is a two way street....I am always the initiator. I have never turned him down if he wanted to have sex...but he also didnt try to initiate it very often. When we talked about it I said that we have sex at least 1-2 times a week and he siad it was more like 1-2 times every two weeks. I never wrote it down and kept track of it...so maybe I am delusional but I cant see my sex drive being ok with 1-2 times every two weeks. Regardless I wasnt going to argue with him about it because like I said I didnt have proof one way or the other. 

The day we had this talk he also didnt wear his wedding ring to work and he made a comment about it when he got home that he had forgot to put it on (he takes it off to sleep). I told him I noticed that morning he wasnt wearing it and he asked why I didnt say anything. I told him I thought he didnt want to wear it so I wasnt going to bring it up.  He then told me he also didnt want people asking questions. I asked if that was the only reason why he was wearing it was to avoid questions and he said Yes. So I told him if that was the only reason he was wearing it to not wear it, and he hasnt worn it since. 

The following morning I decided to head out of town to family for a few days so I wrote him a letter telling him how much I loved him, that if he was 100% certain he didnt want to work things out I would stop fighting, that he needed to tell his family because I cant keep putting acting like everyhting is ok with them, that he needs to figure out the answers to the "I dont knows" because I deserve that much and I took my rings off and left them with the letter. 

When he found out I wasnt at work he called my cell phone asking me where I was I told him I was heading to my parents. I asked him if he needed something or if he was just calling because I wasnt at work and he said because he found out I wasnt at work...he said he wanted to make sure I wasnt doing anything stupid. Then he asked if I was coming back or staying down there...I told him I would be back on Sunday and asked him if he wanted me to stay down there he said No. He told me to have a safe trip and have a good time. 

Then he called me that night for no reason (according to a friend he already read the letter I wrote because he mentioned to him that I left a letter) he just wanted to tell me about something silly, I didnt answer because I was out so I called him back on saturday. He then called me Sunday to find out what time I was heading home and told me to call him when I was on my way home, which I did. He then called me again when I was about an hour from home just to check on me and see if I had hit the storm etc. etc. 

On Wednesday we went out of state for his "hobby" he races (we will just leave it at that) and we got along fine no issues but we slept in seperate beds at the hotel. I helped him all weekend and he actually he said please and thank you more over those 5 days then I had heard in the last two years. I did tell him that on the way home as well and told him it was nice. Got home Monday afternoon...I told him I was going out to dinner and then coming home to watch a movie...he asked what time I thought I was going to be watching the movie because he wanted to watch it as well. So when I got home we watched a movie together then went to bed. Then last night we ate dinner together, I reminded him we were out of detergent so he went out to get it (which he NEVER does). He bought himself a new Bedding set..more manly he said. I suggested that he wash the sheets so I was helping him with the fabric softner and stuff told him to make sure he rinses out the cap so the detergent doesnt drip down the bottle cause that irritates me (I am a little ocd) and he says "ummm how long do you plan on living here"...my look of shock must have come accross loud and clear because he quickly tried to back track. 

I feel like we are room mates now because there is no intimacy. We still get along and dont fight but I feel like I am his PT wife...I still do the cleaning, pay the bills etc. He is doing his own laundry now...even though if I dont have a full load I will offer to throw some of his stuff in with mine. So what do I do???? There is another race coming up in a few weeks and I did tell him I was not going which he just responded with "ok" to. I told him that I needed to start transitioning myself out of his life. (I told him this on Monday on our way Home)

I am so completely confused right now I have no idea what to do...anyone have any thoughts?

Sorry this is so long =(


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## Missy (Jul 11, 2008)

I think your letter hit him and he doesnt want to lose you but he is unsure of what to do and where to go from there. I think you are in a similar spot because he is doing things he hasnt done and that makes you feel good, but you both are still not all the way on the same page. You never discussed the letter and never discussed what would make you happy and what would make him happy. What are the things you love about him, what are the things he loves about you. Start there and tell him why you love him and appreciate him. There is a tremendously good book that I have been reading called the 5 languages of love and it is scary how true those statements are. You can do this, you both have made a baby step but need a little help to get the rest of the steps to take to get back to happiness!


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## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

Sounds like my situation in a way...roles reversed I am you and my wife is your husband.

Anyways the more I told my wife that I loved her and the more I tried to do things to "fix" the situation, and not the problem, it got worse. I went from not paying her attention to smothering her. Now I am walking a careful line until we are both comfortable with being interdependent with each other. 

Meaning she isn't dependent on me but enjoys my help.

Sounds like your husband wants you around but is confused about something. Sex Life is an important thing to guys....3 days seems like 3weeks in our eyes. Intimacy is important as well, even though we dont say it. I'm talking the way you look at him, the way you focus on him, how you touch him, that sparkle you get when he shows up, the way you treat him around people. How are all these aspects?

My wife and I grew apart because we no longer shared interest. We were also more concerned with not upsetting the other person that we were not true to ourselves. Now we are working on that, even though she doesn't out and out admit it..

You need to be happy alone before you can be happy with him. He knows that. Maybe he feels like he has conquered you and there is nothing more for you to offer.

Take up a hobby, surprise him with something out of the ordinary, maybe have a teddy waiting for him when he walks through the door. Show him that you are independent...one thing at a time.


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## anotheryear (Jul 23, 2008)

It just seems like there is something he isn't saying...or hasn't figured out yet himself. Counseling?


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

I think you need to start building a life for yourself without him. I don't mean leave him or move out. He seems to connect back with you when you do that. Maybe he thinks you are too dependant upon him and its actually attractive to him when you are independant. What I mean is make plans without him but don't be mean about it (which you aren't) and if he ASKS to join then let him but don't initiate his joining. I think you should not go to the next race, you already informed him so he is not counting on you and leave it at that. But make some plans for that day. I just did this with my husband last weekend. I was irked he didn't ask me to stay since it was my birthday but I took the kids Saturday afternoon just out. No plans. They both had Toys R Us gift certificates so I took them shopping, I had a clothing gift certificate so I shopped, then we went to dinner and on a whim a movie. We finished at 11pm and had plans to stay over night at my folks house who were out of town. We got to the house and watched a movie and crashed, he never called. I didn't call him either. The next morning I got up and found two text messages from him. Silly stuff but this was a good sign. I answered them both, he continued to text. I answered all but never called. We swam all day (I'm toasty burned too) and then my parents came home so we went to dinner with them and came home that night at 7pm. I had a fabulous time with my kids and got my mind off my problems, although he did not admit it the texting told me he missed me. Three things accomplished, I got my mind off things and had a good time, I spent quality time with my children, and I showed independance. I think it was a very good thing. Remember that it is your house, who says you have to move out? If you do decide to split up, then you do get half the house. He can leave or you can sell it and split the profits so you can find another place.


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

Missy said:


> I think your letter hit him and he doesnt want to lose you but he is unsure of what to do and where to go from there. I think you are in a similar spot because he is doing things he hasnt done and that makes you feel good, but you both are still not all the way on the same page. You never discussed the letter and never discussed what would make you happy and what would make him happy. What are the things you love about him, what are the things he loves about you. Start there and tell him why you love him and appreciate him. There is a tremendously good book that I have been reading called the 5 languages of love and it is scary how true those statements are. You can do this, you both have made a baby step but need a little help to get the rest of the steps to take to get back to happiness!


I asked him a few weeks ago why he fell in love with me and married me and he told me "I dont remember"


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

hitrockbottom said:


> Sounds like my situation in a way...roles reversed I am you and my wife is your husband.
> 
> Anyways the more I told my wife that I loved her and the more I tried to do things to "fix" the situation, and not the problem, it got worse. I went from not paying her attention to smothering her. Now I am walking a careful line until we are both comfortable with being interdependent with each other.
> 
> ...


See that is part of the problem I think I am the independent one. I have friends that I can go out with, or I will go to my parents for the weekend (they live at the beach and he wont go). I never force him to do anything he doesnt want to do...if there is something I want to do that he doesnt I find a girlfriend or a sister to go with. 

I feel like he is a little dependent on me...because I take care of him...I take care of the house, the bills the cleaning etc.

The sex thing right now is kinda hard because we are in seperate rooms....so I WANT to go in there but I also dont want to be rejected either.


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

anotheryear said:


> It just seems like there is something he isn't saying...or hasn't figured out yet himself. Counseling?


I suggested couseling and we went for one sesssion that was a complete waste of time we both didnt like the couselor and he put up walls and got nasty to protect himself. 
He even told me that he would probably do better in one on one instead of with me. I found a new conselor and went on my own a few times and suggested he try a guy at the new place that my conselor recommended. A few weeks passed and I asked him about it again...he told me he didnt need to see a counselor there was nothing wrong with him.


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

AZMOMOFTWO said:


> I think you need to start building a life for yourself without him. I don't mean leave him or move out. He seems to connect back with you when you do that. Maybe he thinks you are too dependant upon him and its actually attractive to him when you are independant. What I mean is make plans without him but don't be mean about it (which you aren't) and if he ASKS to join then let him but don't initiate his joining. I think you should not go to the next race, you already informed him so he is not counting on you and leave it at that. But make some plans for that day. I just did this with my husband last weekend. I was irked he didn't ask me to stay since it was my birthday but I took the kids Saturday afternoon just out. No plans. They both had Toys R Us gift certificates so I took them shopping, I had a clothing gift certificate so I shopped, then we went to dinner and on a whim a movie. We finished at 11pm and had plans to stay over night at my folks house who were out of town. We got to the house and watched a movie and crashed, he never called. I didn't call him either. The next morning I got up and found two text messages from him. Silly stuff but this was a good sign. I answered them both, he continued to text. I answered all but never called. We swam all day (I'm toasty burned too) and then my parents came home so we went to dinner with them and came home that night at 7pm. I had a fabulous time with my kids and got my mind off my problems, although he did not admit it the texting told me he missed me. Three things accomplished, I got my mind off things and had a good time, I spent quality time with my children, and I showed independance. I think it was a very good thing. Remember that it is your house, who says you have to move out? If you do decide to split up, then you do get half the house. He can leave or you can sell it and split the profits so you can find another place.


As hard as it is going to be for me not to go to the race I am not going to go....one of our friends that was at this last race made a comment that all I needed to do was not go to one race for him to see how much I do for him. I dont think he appreciates what I do at all.

Yeah I plan on making plans for that weekend to do something. 

Last night he had to make a road trip (about a 2 hour drive one way) to drop some parts off and pick some stuff off...he called me when he was on his way and then he called me again when he was on his way home. I had gone out with some friends and I think he was a little surprised that I wasnt at home. What I dont understand is why is he calling me if he doesnt want to be married to me????? I understand that part of it is habit but come on now.....


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## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

I think he still wants to be around. If he didn't he wouldn't be calling, texting or even staying at the house.


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

hitrockbottom said:


> I think he still wants to be around. If he didn't he wouldn't be calling, texting or even staying at the house.


Thats how I feel to...but I dont want to have false hope and think that when its not accurate


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## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

stumped said:


> Thats how I feel to...but I dont want to have false hope and think that when its not accurate


Yeah I know...I wish my wife would say Yes or no to wether she wants to stay around. Feels unfair


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

So this weekend has been interesting and I guess one way or the other a decision will eventually be made.......

Friday he called me at work a couple times mostly just to say hi or to ask me to do something he could very well have done himself. He asked me two different times what my plans were for the night....I told him I didnt have anything solid nailed down. He told me what he was doing and said "ok well call me later". I never called him and when I got home around midnight he was in his room with the door closed I assume he was asleep. 

Saturday morning he came in my room (we still share a bathroom and closet for the time being) and showered and got dressed...we talked for a few minutes and then he said he was going to go run some errands. I did some stuff around the house...cleaned (cleaned up but didnt clean up after him) hung a picture and a shelf...he came home a little while later and teased me (all just joking around even called me baby) about the shelf it was a little crooked so he fixed it for me. A freind came over with her kids for him to do something for her (car related) after they left I called one of our mutual friends and ended up heading over there to hang out. Later that night friends husband called him and asked him to come hang out so he did. He pulled up a chair next to me and sat next to me. We left about 12:30 came home went to our rooms and went to bed. 

Sunday I got up...he was awake so I went in his room layed on his bed with him and we talked for a little bit (no contact) watched the last 45 minutes of a movie then he got in the shower. I showered...then I came down and said I was going to make some breakfast would he like some as well. I started making breakfast realized we were out of milk (I just wanted it to drink) and asked him to run out and grab some...he did as well as grab a few other things he thought we needed. We ate breakfast...then I left to go to a friends (this was about noon) just got home at 9ish...he isnt here havent talked to him since I left this morning. I think I am just going to go to my room and shut the door so I am not in the living room when he comes home...see how he likes it. Might not be the most mature thing but I guess he needs to get used to living without me and me living without him.

Still sooo confused!!!


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## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

This is where I get confused...

If a person wants to be with someone...whether they are upset, confused, hurt, or what ever the situation....then why do they make comments like "I guess he needs to get used to living without me and me living without him" - not singling you out my wife has made similar comments - Why not get everything out say look here is what I have to offer....here is the road that we are looking at if we do this...then say are in or not. Give it time, but why intentionally avoid each other...


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

hitrockbottom said:


> This is where I get confused...
> 
> If a person wants to be with someone...whether they are upset, confused, hurt, or what ever the situation....then why do they make comments like "I guess he needs to get used to living without me and me living without him" - not singling you out my wife has made similar comments - Why not get everything out say look here is what I have to offer....here is the road that we are looking at if we do this...then say are in or not. Give it time, but *why intentionally avoid each other*...


Because at some point you have to protect yourself. It hurts me every time he goes in the other room. It hurts me to sit in the same room with him and not be able to touch him playfully or intimatley. It hurts me everytime he leaves the house and doesnt invite me...so what would you suggest I do?

Why is it ok for him to hurt me but when I do the same thing to him he does to me you make me out to be the bad guy???

It takes two to make a marriage work and you get to a point where you just cant do it anymore because it is emotionally and physically draining.


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## hitrockbottom (Jun 3, 2008)

stumped said:


> Because at some point you have to protect yourself. It hurts me every time he goes in the other room. It hurts me to sit in the same room with him and not be able to touch him playfully or intimatley. It hurts me everytime he leaves the house and doesnt invite me...so what would you suggest I do?


Sorry if I came across to bluntly I wasn't meaning to make you out to be a bad guy...just wanting some input from a womens view..my wife leaves with out telling me or inviting me....can't touch or play intimately with out feeling uncomfortable...SO I know what your going through...emotionally it does destroy me, but I leave myself open..I can't seem to close myself off...I'm afraid that if I close myself off my love will die...scares me..
just looking to bounce Ideas..


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

hitrockbottom said:


> Sorry if I came across to bluntly I wasn't meaning to make you out to be a bad guy...just wanting some input from a womens view..my wife leaves with out telling me or inviting me....can't touch or play intimately with out feeling uncomfortable...SO I know what your going through...emotionally it does destroy me, but I leave myself open..I can't seem to close myself off...I'm afraid that if I close myself off my love will die...scares me..
> just looking to bounce Ideas..


Yeah well I guess I am getting to that point where I am killing the love.....you can only leave yourself open for so long before you just cant do it anymore. I have to say every day that goes by it gets easier and easier which I KNOW is a bad thing if he ever changes his mind because he may change his mind and realize but the way things are going it might be too late.


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## Missy (Jul 11, 2008)

but if you both are hurt and you both want each other but intentionally avoid each other than you are inadvertently pushing each other further away. You both seem to make steps to converse but neither of you want the first step. I know in the past you have given many first steps, but maybe the first steps to real communication and breaking down the barrier between you. This is the only true way to know if it is enough. It is emotionally draining to work on the relationship, but no more emoitionally draining than avoiding and not knowing for sure.


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

Missy said:


> but if you both are hurt and you both want each other but intentionally avoid each other than you are inadvertently pushing each other further away. You both seem to make steps to converse but neither of you want the first step. I know in the past you have given many first steps, but maybe the first steps to real communication and breaking down the barrier between you. This is the only true way to know if it is enough. It is emotionally draining to work on the relationship, but no more emoitionally draining than avoiding and not knowing for sure.


But thats the thing....how do I KNOW that he is hurt and that he wants me and that the mixed signals he sends me arent just habit because we have been together for so long?


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## stumped (May 16, 2008)

So he hasnt made any steps to make any changes other than still being in the other room. He still hasnt told Family or Friends anything. Neither of us are wearing our rings. 

His brithday is coming up and we are going to dinner (that I planned) with his twin sister and some friends. 

We had dinner together on Monday....his idea. Yesterday talked quite a bit joking and stuff I went out after work to watch a movie with a female friend got home about 11pm talked to him for a few minutes and went to bed. Today he called me for a quick question....acted like he had to go even when I inquired about his plans for the evening and thats all the communication we have had for the day...really weird it goes from one extreme to the next.


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