# 26 year old Married Virigin



## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

time posting here. I just turned 26 yrs old and my wife will be 26 soon. We have been married for 3 years, no kids. We were good friends before marriage and both raised in Christian homes so we managed to stay virgins. Come wedding night we tried intercourse with no luck, and several times after in the following months with negative results. She would close up prior to any penetration and just the thought of something inside her made her tremble. I suggested she see a dr who recommended dilators to help expand her, she quickly gave up on that and never took any initiative into trying it further. I took two pleasing her with toys with clitoral stimulation and orally. She stuck to handjobs only for me. After 3 years of this, it started getting old. I became frustrated sexually and emotionally. She started treating me with little respect and always tried to control things in my life. I finally let it everything out this last week and initially she was blaming me, until she realized how serious I was and wanted to end things. She begged and begged me to forgive her and give her another chance and said her life is nothing without me. She has no friends that she invests time in because she says she only likes to be with me. This leaves her with no support if I leave. I agreed to go to counseling and our second session was yesterday . The first one was just intro to counsellor. Second session was trying to figure out why wife gets upset easy at little things. Wife said she's not sure how much she trusts this counsellor in helping us and she wants us to see a sex therapist so that I can get help in wanting to do the deed with her after being rejected for so long. I'm just not sure I still love her after what she put me through and I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life. We both want kids in a few years and now I'm not sure I want her to be the mother of my kids. Please offer your advice. If I leave her she will probably drop out of college and become a hermit crab.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Was she abused in the past?


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

Once when she was 11. Orally copulated. Which is strange because that is really the only way I can make her go off. She's pretty convinced that it hasn't affected her in our relationship because she doesn't remember it that well but I'm sure it leaves a lasting effect.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

By who?


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

Someone who was well respected in the church her family went to. He ended up in prisons and being deported.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Hmmm. Well, it could be a part of whats going on. Do you guys use lube? Condoms? Do you try to finger her before penetration?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Marriage is about love, respect and intimacy. 2 of those things are missing in your life. If your wife truly loves 
you she would go to the end of the world to fix your marriage. 3 years is a LONG time to not make love to your wife. 
Stop asking her to go to see a sex therapist. Demand her to go. Drive her kicking and screaming if you have to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Divorce her, three years no sex?

Divorce her, should have divorced her 2 1/2 years ago at the very least.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

missymrs80 said:


> Hmmm. Well, it could be a part of whats going on. Do you guys use lube? Condoms? Do you try to finger her before penetration?


We always tried with lube and finger before trying penetration. Even try dilator first still no luck. 

Our appt with sex therapist is Wednesday but I just feel like I am going to help her realize that I don't desire sex with her anymore after what she's put me through.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I honestly think the sexual abuse affects her now, more than she thinks... especially if she never got counseling for it. Did she? I mean, before now? Also, in order for her to have the intimacy with you, she needs to address her issues, in IC.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

No she has not ever had counseling for the abuse.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

It's the abuse. This is likely not to ever get better unless she seeks help for it. Any other thinking on your part is denial.



> If I leave her she will probably drop out of college and become a hermit crab.


Based on this I'd advice you to cut your losses and end this. At 26 you're young enough to find someone who isn't broken to marry. Your wife isn't well enough to be in a sexual relationship of ANY kind.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Your wife has vaginismus. You can read about it here:Q&A My Vagina Is Tight, I Can't Have Sex | Kinsey Confidential

I have had this before right after I had a hysterectomy. I had been having painful sex for a while and I had not told my husband exactly how painful it was, and continued to do it. The reason was, I had always related sex with pain because I had been molested and raped when I was a child. 

Also, most likely, more happened than just oral sex, but that is the only thing that she is able to tell you right now or she has not worked through the emotional scarring that she experienced when this happened. 

One of the things that my counselor suggested for me was guided meditation. I was so "uptight" that I could not relax to get my pelvic muscles to relax. Another thing she told me is to tell my husband that I needed him to let ME decide when to have sex or control when to have sex (at least for a while). The reason she attempts to control you is because control was taken away from HER when she was molested.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

anony2 said:


> Your wife has vaginismus. You can read about it here:Q&A My Vagina Is Tight, I Can't Have Sex | Kinsey Confidential
> 
> I have had this before right after I had a hysterectomy. I had been having painful sex for a while and I had not told my husband exactly how painful it was, and continued to do it. The reason was, I had always related sex with pain because I had been molested and raped when I was a child.
> 
> ...


She has no problem talking to me about the abuse. She was very open and told me when we were engaged. I know she wouldn't lie to me or only tell half the story on what happened.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

cruzinmikey said:


> She has no problem talking to me about the abuse. She was very open and told me when we were engaged. I know she wouldn't lie to me or only tell half the story on what happened.


Then she hasn't dealt with the molestation emotionally. She needs individual counseling.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Married for 3 years and still a virgin? I've never heard of that before. It's simply ridiculous. I suggest divorcing since you're young and have no kids.


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## loveloss (Sep 27, 2012)

OP-- This is really crazy. But if she was sexually abused, that could have alot to do with it. Trust and fear can do that to a person who's been sexually abused. I was also sexually abused from the time I was 8 until I was 14, by my father! I have PTSD from it, and still have nightmares every now and then. At times I don't even want to have sex because of what happened to me. Certain things of sex remind me of it and I close up! I think you two need marriage and sex counseling and she needs to get into counseling for her own problems. Don't give up on the marriage just yet. Be there for her and make her get into counseling, she needs to confront the issue! I know this 3 years have been hard on you but maybe she really doesn't see how much its hurt you! Just try to fix yourselves and the marriage before giving up because you could regret it later! She is having issues from her past, which she is in denial of. Help her get help!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

cruzinmikey said:


> time posting here. I just turned 26 yrs old and my wife will be 26 soon. We have been married for 3 years, no kids. We were good friends before marriage and both raised in Christian homes so we managed to stay virgins. Come wedding night we tried intercourse with no luck, and several times after in the following months with negative results. She would close up prior to any penetration and just the thought of something inside her made her tremble. I suggested she see a dr who recommended dilators to help expand her, she quickly gave up on that and never took any initiative into trying it further. I took two pleasing her with toys with clitoral stimulation and orally. She stuck to handjobs only for me. After 3 years of this, it started getting old. I became frustrated sexually and emotionally. *She started treating me with little respect and always tried to control things in my life. I finally let it everything out this last week and initially she was blaming me, until she realized how serious I was and wanted to end things.* She begged and begged me to forgive her and give her another chance and said her life is nothing without me. She has no friends that she invests time in because she says she only likes to be with me. This leaves her with no support if I leave. I agreed to go to counseling and our second session was yesterday . The first one was just intro to counsellor. Second session was trying to figure out why wife gets upset easy at little things. Wife said she's not sure how much she trusts this counsellor in helping us and she wants us to see a sex therapist so that I can get help in wanting to do the deed with her after being rejected for so long.* I'm just not sure I still love her after what she put me through and I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life. We both want kids in a few years and now I'm not sure I want her to be the mother of my kids.* Please offer your advice. If I leave her she will probably drop out of college and become a hermit crab.


^^^^^^^
Not good signs from her at all.
Think very seriously about your future.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

You have a SEVERAL RED FLAGS here, and you need to address them when you consider whether THIS is the woman you WANT TO SPEND THE REST OF YOUR (very long) LIFE WITH. Also, whether THIS IS THE WOMAN YOU CHOOSE TO BE THE MOTHER OF YOUR CHILDREN.

1. Your lack of a sex life goes WITHOUT SAYING.

2. Your wife's lack of co-operation in trying to overcome her problems.


> I suggested she see a dr who recommended dilators to help expand her, *she quickly gave up on that and never took any initiative into trying it further*.





> She stuck to handjobs only for me. After 3 years of this, it started getting old.





> She started treating me with little respect





> Wife said she's not sure how much she trusts this counsellor in helping us and she wants us to see a sex therapist so that I can get help in wanting to do the deed with her after being rejected for so long.


So your wife wants to AVOID fixing herself and her problems, she just wants you to be able to have sex with her so you won't leave her! THAT is messed up! *IF SHE DOESN'T WANT TO FIX HERSELF, SHE SHOULD NOT BE ANYBODY'S MOTHER!!!*

3. Your wife's lack of a life outside of your home.


> said her life is nothing without me. *She has no friends that she invests time in because she says she only likes to be with me*. This leaves her with no support if I leave





> If I leave her she will probably drop out of college and become a hermit crab


This is NOT normal behavior for a 26 year old!



> I'm just not sure I still love her after what she put me through and I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life. We both want kids in a few years and now I'm not sure I want her to be the mother of my kids. *Please offer your advice*.


Your wife has serious mental/emotional issues. Are they all due to her childhood abuse? I don't know, I'm not a shrink. Does it matter if they're due to the abuse? It is sad WHATEVER the reason she is suffering. That said, is it YOUR responsibility to wait around until she is helped....when/if she ever decides to GET help? I'm not sure.

If you were MY SON, I would say, "Hon, I'll support you whatever you decide. You have given this marriage a VALIANT effort, and if you want to call it quits, I will NOT BLAME YOU. If you want to hang in there for a while longer, I will support that, too."

Many would NOT fault you if you want to walk away NOW. If SHE DECIDES to be a hermit, to make no friends, to let her life stop in its tracks because her marriage ended, THAT IS HER CHOICE! Lots of people are left by their spouses EVERY DAY and manage to limp forward...she can, too, if she chooses. Or she can lie down and die (figuratively) if she chooses. NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY.

If you decide to stay, you need to remember that it is not a 'now or never' proposition. You can try the counseling IF YOU WANT TO, and if it doesn't work you can always walk away in 2 months, or 3 months, or 6 months. This will NOT be your only 'window of opportunity' to leave this marriage. Do NOT be guilted into staying for religious, personal, family reasons. This is YOUR life and you have been MORE THAN PATIENT ENOUGH with this situation.

JUMP if you're ready, stay if you're not!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> If you decide to stay, you need to remember that it is not a 'now or never' proposition. You can try the counseling IF YOU WANT TO, and if it doesn't work you can always walk away in 2 months, or 3 months, or 6 months. This will NOT be your only 'window of opportunity' to leave this marriage.* Do NOT be guilted into staying for religious, personal, family reasons. This is YOUR life and you have been MORE THAN PATIENT ENOUGH with this situation.*
> 
> JUMP if you're ready, stay if you're not!


:iagree: x100%

It is a risky situation.
I have seen situations like this where the abused person with the emotional trauma ends up either abusing their partner or sometimes even cheating on them in some form.

The innocent party ends up excusing the behaviour and blames it on the guilty party prior abuse / trauma.

The OP should consider all the likely outcomes and keep his options open,if he decides to stay.


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## loveloss (Sep 27, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree: x100%
> 
> It is a risky situation.
> I have seen situations like this where the abused person with the emotional trauma ends up either abusing their partner or sometimes even cheating on them in some form.
> ...



That is not always true.......
As I mentioned above, I was also sexually abused... which I am in Counseling for now! Not everyone allows it to affect their lives. I don't abuse my spouse or cheat! Those two things don't fly with me. I am a very protective mother as well. Some people handle traumatic situations differently. I do understand what you mean but its not all abused people! My problem is trust. Which I am working on now!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

loveloss said:


> *That is not always true.......*
> As I mentioned above, I was also sexually abused... which I am in Counseling for now! Not everyone allows it to affect their lives. I don't abuse my spouse or cheat! Those two things don't fly with me. I am a very protective mother as well. Some people handle traumatic situations differently. I do understand what you mean but its not all abused people! *My problem is trust. Which I am working on now!*


That's why i said in my opening line that its a " risky situation."

Normal healthy relationships cannot exist without trust.

The question is can the OP cope with the_ possible fallout _from this situation?

They should have never gotten married before her problem was dealt with.
The OP is now questioning himself, after he was put through the initial abuse *by her .*
The relationship is not healthy.

The emotional trauma from sexual abuse is extremely difficult to deal with. Add to that , the rigours of marriage, emotional expectations , no sex and low self esteem on both sides.

Everyone responds different to such trauma. Some recover, some just cannot cope, and develop all sorts of coping mechanisms.

It is a risky situation, it can go either way.


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## loveloss (Sep 27, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> That's why i said in my opening line that its a " risky situation."
> 
> Normal healthy relationships cannot exist without trust.
> 
> ...




I get what you are saying. But maybe the best way to help her is to support her and help her by getting her some help! I do not believe that its a reason to divorce someone because NOBODY'S life is perfect growing up. She just needs help!!
She could recover easily from it with SUPPORT of the one person she loves!
She is not abusing him, she is just scared to have sex. I feel for him there, I really do! Because marriage can't live without intimacy, hence why I said they should get into marriage AND sex counselling so that they can get through this together as a married couple.
You are right, its hard to deal with someone with a bad past of abuse. But they deserved to be loved too... Maybe she doesn't realize the pain she has caused her husband... Its just something they both need to work on together. 
Now if she was cheating or verbally or physically abusive I'd say, divorce but this is just something from her past she hasn't coped with yet...


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

loveloss said:


> I get what you are saying. But maybe the best way to help her is to support her and help her by getting her some help! I do not believe that its a reason to divorce someone because NOBODY'S life is perfect growing up. She just needs help!!
> She could recover easily from it with SUPPORT of the one person she loves!
> .


:iagree:
It can work this way.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> maybe the best way to help her is to support her and help her by getting her some help!


Which he has tried to do in the PAST and which SHE SHUT DOWN.


> she quickly gave up on that and never took any initiative into trying it further


Which he is trying to do NOW and she is AVOIDING.


> *Second session *...Wife said she's not sure how much she trusts this counsellor in helping us and she wants us to see a sex therapist *so that I can get help*


What the h*ll?!? How has this turned into *HIS *problem???


> I do not believe that its a reason to divorce someone because NOBODY'S life is perfect growing up.


And you are certainly entitled to your opinion; however YOU need to recognize that (as a victim of abuse yourself) YOU can totally empathize with the wife in this situation. Those of us who have NOT been victims of abuse in our past can totally empathize with the husband here. It would NOT BE OKAY if our spouse refused to have sex with us for three years, especially in our 20s, especially as newlyweds, especially if our spouse was RESISTENT to addressing the problem and fixing it. THIS IS NOT how a marriage should be. THIS IS NOT what this man agreed to when he agreed to marry this woman. He had NO IDEA how broken she is (maybe she had no idea how broken she is either.)

I agree that the wife needs help. I just don't agree that THIS MAN should have to shoulder the burden for the next however-many years until that happens. This situation has poisoned HIS WELL also. How many people could be rejected for THREE YEARS (at such a young age AND as a newlywed) and walk away unscathed? Answer: NONE.

THE WIFE HERE has refused to address her past. SHE NEEDS to let him go, get herself fixed and THEN see about a personal/intimate relationship with someone else. You DID notice she has NO RELATIONSHIPS with ANYONE ELSE...


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

If my husband could not have sex because of diabetes, low testosterone, a heart attack or anything else, I would not divorce him because I married him for better or worse, not for better and what I EXPECTED from him. My husband has some issues from growing up that are not related to sexual abuse that I know about, and it causes problems between us, and it causes me to feel rejected at times, but I understand that is HIS problem to deal with and what I can do for him is give him a safe environment to deal with it in, like he has done for me. 

One of the things that my counselor explained to me is that a person cannot be FORCED into dealing with being molested, they have to deal with it when they are emotionally ready to deal with it. I was 43 years old before I was able to deal with it and I am still dealing with the effects that it has had on me. It was hard for me to see any sexual advances as anything other than predatory. 

If you cannot deal with her past, then divorce her, but be aware that you are adding to the emotional scarring. There are many other ways to be intimate with your wife besides sex, and in doing so, it will help HER gain trust in you to be able to open up to you.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She hasn't held up her end of the bargain. Why on earth does he OWE her? 3 years, and she still hasn't given up her virginity. Anything that doesn't acknowledge the ABUSE that she has put him through is just a lame excuse.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> She hasn't held up her end of the bargain. Why on earth does he OWE her? 3 years, and she still hasn't given up her virginity. Anything that doesn't acknowledge the ABUSE that she has put him through is just a lame excuse.


And that's what is nagging me in the back of my head.
Everybody's sorry for her because of her childhood trauma.
What about the trauma she put him through for all these years even though he was the innocent party?

I am even wondering based on her actions, if she has a false sense of entitlement over him.
In other words, because of her trauma,she might think that he is _supposed_ to understand and accept whatever behaviour/ emotions she dishes out to him. 
[ Based on the fact that she recommended they needed to see a sex therapist for HIM to get help.]

These things are not simple and cannot be overlooked.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

Not simple indeed.

I would lay your terms out on the table. If she cant agree to the terms then the marriage is over. Its easy to let day after day go by and continue on with the thought process of it getting all figured out. All things aside, she isnt willing to do the work. We all have childhood traumas to some degree or another....and in a healthy marriage you work on your issues together and on your own. Marriage is a vehicle for growth. No growth...you arent going anywhere.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Which he has tried to do in the PAST and which SHE SHUT DOWN.


The help he was trying to get was addressing the PHYSICAL problem, NOT the EMOTIONAL one.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Which he is trying to do NOW and she is AVOIDING. What the h*ll?!? How has this turned into *HIS *problem???


I would honestly suspect that she said she "doesn't trust this counselor" because she isn't ready to address her emotional problems due to the molestation. And, I believe she knows this counselor will try to get her to address them.



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> And you are certainly entitled to your opinion; however YOU need to recognize that (as a victim of abuse yourself) YOU can totally empathize with the wife in this situation. Those of us who have NOT been victims of abuse in our past can totally empathize with the husband here. It would NOT BE OKAY if our spouse refused to have sex with us for three years, especially in our 20s, especially as newlyweds, especially if our spouse was RESISTENT to addressing the problem and fixing it. THIS IS NOT how a marriage should be. THIS IS NOT what this man agreed to when he agreed to marry this woman. He had NO IDEA how broken she is (maybe she had no idea how broken she is either.)


I have never been abused and I can see it from BOTH sides. Yes, 3 years is a long time to wait to lose your virginity after getting married. But... he HAS waited. Neither of them, I believe, understood how broken she is. But he DID allow it to continue when she said she wasn't going to get it treated. He could have told her that he wasn't going to live like this... but he didn't. 



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I agree that the wife needs help. I just don't agree that THIS MAN should have to shoulder the burden for the next however-many years until that happens. This situation has poisoned HIS WELL also. How many people could be rejected for THREE YEARS (at such a young age AND as a newlywed) and walk away unscathed? Answer: NONE.


You are correct. No one in that situation could walk away unscathed. However, the vows which were taken were "in sickness and in health. I believe this qualifies as sickness. Yea, he could walk away from her if he wants to. But he also has to recognize that, as anony2 said, he will be adding to her emotional scarring. Yes, I know, he is scarred as well. But who are WE to say that THEY can't work through this and come out better?



SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> THE WIFE HERE has refused to address her past. SHE NEEDS to let him go, get herself fixed and THEN see about a personal/intimate relationship with someone else. You DID notice she has NO RELATIONSHIPS with ANYONE ELSE...


So she had no relationships with anyone else means...?? Or did you mean "no friends", not that she never had boyfriends before him? What NEEDS to be done is that the OP NEEDS to decide if he wants to help his wife through this or walk away from the whole thing. Either way, there is still going to be a lot more hurt on both sides.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

If you consider 'not having sex' as TRAUMA, then you have never had any type of TRAUMA, EVER. 

My dad is a high school baseball coach, he got hit in the crotch at a practice, and even though he had a cup on, some how it injured him, now he is unable to have sex because he was diagnosed with Peyroni's disease...does this mean that he is traumatizing my mom because he is afraid to have a surgery that there is no guarantee will fix it? They have been married 50+ years, should she divorce him because of this?


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

You guys have all given me so much advice and I really appreciate it and I value the opinions of both sides of the coin. It is very hard to take one sides view over the other because I have emotions on both ends of the spectrum. I have a lot I'm really thinking about now and I am still trying to comprehend it all. I will post again soon but right now I'm still gathering my thoughts. Thank you all again and if you have anything else to add for me to consider I would greatly appreciate it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

anony2 said:


> *If you consider 'not having sex' as TRAUMA, then you have never had any type of TRAUMA, EVER. *
> 
> My dad is a high school baseball coach, he got hit in the crotch at a practice, and even though he had a cup on, some how it injured him, now he is unable to have sex because he was diagnosed with Peyroni's disease...does this mean that he is traumatizing my mom because he is afraid to have a surgery that there is no guarantee will fix it? They have been married 50+ years, should she divorce him because of this?


1] This man has NEVER HAD SEX with his wife even BEFORE they were married. Now he is faced with the possibility of a completely SEXLESS MARRIAGE.

And you think that this is not traumatic?
That somehow his trauma is insignificant to hers?
So sex is not important to her at this time, has never been,and he is supposed to understand this and fully support her?

And you equate this with a 50 yr old man who already have grown, married children?

Am I missing something here?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> And you equate this with a 50 yr old man who already have grown, married children?
> 
> Am I missing something here?


Actually compared it to a 70+ year old who has been married for 50+ years.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> 1] This man has NEVER HAD SEX with his wife even BEFORE they were married. Now he is faced with the possibility of a completely SEXLESS MARRIAGE.
> 
> And you think that this is not traumatic?
> That somehow his trauma is insignificant to hers?
> ...



I think it's more about those who are saying for the OP to just leave his wife and never look back, rather than try to help his wife deal with her emotional problems. The focus has been the physical aspect of the marriage, thus far. And many are throwing out there that he needs to bail now, and potentially causing more emotional scarring for her. No, I am not trying to minimize what he is going through. What I am saying is that, rather than focus on the physical problem she is having with sex, focus on getting her past the trauma of being sexually abused. Maybe they will stay together, maybe they won't. But at least he would be able to say he tried to REALLY help her.

I will say that he DOES need to tell her that the sex therapy wouldn't be just FOR HIM, but for HER as well. And if she is uncomfortable with one MC, find another. Question, was the counselor male or female? Oh, and regardless of what you do with the therapists, if she is non-compliant, that will tell you that she has no intention of fixing this problem. Do some research on therapists. See how experienced they are with sexual abuse and how they address it. Same thing with sex therapists. If, after doing the research and find one(s) to fit you both, and she chooses not to try...then I would leave. 

Anyway, that's just my thoughts.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So if not 3 years, where does he get to draw the line? Is he obligated to support her sexless for 5 years? 20? 50? When do his needs start to matter? I know I would have started to detach within the first 30 days and there's no doubt in my mind that I would have annulled by 6 months. If you never consemate are you even really married?


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> 1] This man has NEVER HAD SEX with his wife even BEFORE they were married. Now he is faced with the possibility of a completely SEXLESS MARRIAGE.
> 
> And you think that this is not traumatic?
> That somehow his trauma is insignificant to hers?
> ...


No, it isn't traumatic to NOT have sex. I have had sex and not had sex and I can tell you, 100% for sure that I was not traumatized by not having it. 

What you are most likely missing is the fact that he married her and her problems, just like your wife married you and YOUR problems. If you bail every time you face one of your spouses problems WITH THEM, then you are going to be married over and over and over again and you will never grow emotionally. 

The fact that you do not think it is comparative says that you have a double standard, *it was equally traumatic for my dad that he could not have sex as it was for my mom*, but she didn't leave him because of it. 

His wife isn't choosing to have vagismus just like you do not CHOOSE to have a muscle spasm. THAT is what it feels like. And it isn't a CHOICE. He can either help her with the problem or leave, his choice, but if he chooses to leave, then he is adding to her emotional scarring.

I choose NOT to kick someone when they are down. Hopefully, he will too.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

She has refused to try to fix this for the last three years. What has changed that makes the OP think that anything is different now? My guess is that she is just stalling. She thinks that eventually he will stop bugging her and the problem will just go away on its own.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So if not 3 years, where does he get to draw the line? Is he obligated to support her sexless for 5 years? 20? 50? When do his needs start to matter? I know I would have started to detach within the first 30 days and there's no doubt in my mind that I would have annulled by 6 months. *If you never consemate are you even really married?*


IDK, ask SA. True, it wasn't 3 years for her and her husband, but it was more than 30 days. It was 3 months and they still hadn't been able to consummate. Yes, I am aware, 3 years is MUCH longer. But like I said, thus far, the focus has only been on the PHYSICAL aspect of getting her to have sex. Her mind closed up, her vagina closed up and she physically could not do it. She has balked at the dilators...the PHYSICAL invasion (as she likely sees it). It's quite possible that when this was attempted, she likened it to the sexual abuse...but didn't recognize that. Honestly, if she can come to terms with THAT, they could very well end up consummating and continuing with a sexual marriage. Ultimately, it is the OP's choice whether he wants to try to help her or to drop her now. How long he waits is his choice. Which is why I suggested doing research on MC AND sex therapists and if she still won't do anything to work on herself, then yes, leave with a free conscience. But don't focus on "I want sex!"...Instead, use the thought "I want my wife to heal so we can have a satisfying sex life for BOTH of us."


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> IDK, ask SA. True, it wasn't 3 years for her and her husband, but it was more than 30 days. It was 3 months and they still hadn't been able to consummate. Yes, I am aware, 3 years is MUCH longer. But like I said, thus far, the focus has only been on the PHYSICAL aspect of getting her to have sex. Her mind closed up, her vagina closed up and she physically could not do it. She has balked at the dilators...the PHYSICAL invasion (as she likely sees it). It's quite possible that when this was attempted, she likened it to the sexual abuse...but didn't recognize that. Honestly, if she can come to terms with THAT, they could very well end up consummating and continuing with a sexual marriage. Ultimately, it is the OP's choice whether he wants to try to help her or to drop her now. How long he waits is his choice. Which is why I suggested doing research on MC AND sex therapists and if she still won't do anything to work on herself, then yes, leave with a free conscience. *But don't focus on "I want sex!"...Instead, use the thought "I want my wife to heal so we can have a satisfying sex life for BOTH of us*."


It would be the same thing if a man could not maintain a hard on. if his wife freaked out about it every time, it would be next to impossible for him the next time and the time after that and so on.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

anony2 said:


> No, it isn't traumatic to NOT have sex. I have had sex and not had sex and I can tell you, 100% for sure that I was not traumatized by not having it.
> 
> What you are most likely missing is the fact that he married her and her problems, just like your wife married you and YOUR problems. If you bail every time you face one of your spouses problems WITH THEM, then you are going to be married over and over and over again and you will never grow emotionally.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^
That part right there shows where your argument is biased , and flawed.

*"........I became frustrated sexually and emotionally. She started treating me with little respect and always tried to control things in my life........."*

Line # 11 & 12 Opening Paragraph

And you think that this is not traumatic.
The problem is that you are separating the sex act in marriage from the emotional aspect of the relationship. So if he cannot have sex then 
" its ok , because its just sex."

WRONG.
Go back again and read line #11 & 12 of the OP's opening paragraph.

1] The OP's wife has HER problems which she has been UNWILLING to work on for the entire marriage.

2]She started abusing the OP.

3]Absolutely none of this is his fault

4]If he should choose to leave HE IS WITHIN HIS RIGHT. Divorce and separation are ALWAYS TRAUMATIC for BOTH PARTIES. 
PLEASE STOP trying to demonize him , whilst painting her as the " innocent party." Stop trying minimize his suffering , because his suffering is inextricably linked to her problem. It is an established fact that a man's sexual need is high in the hierarchy of needs.
The OP is willing & has been extremely patient and faithful to the marriage vow.
Both parties are suffering and SHE NEEDS TO RECOGNIZE THAT.

If she had fully recognized the effect of her problem on his emotional well being ,she would have been willing to WORK ON IT with him a long time ago. So far she not demonstrated this. That is why the OP is on TAM looking for answers.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^^^
> Not good signs from her at all.
> Think very seriously about your future.





Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree: x100%
> 
> It is a risky situation.
> *I have seen situations like this where the abused person with the emotional trauma ends up either abusing their partner or sometimes even cheating on them in some form.*
> ...





Caribbean Man said:


> That's why i said in my opening line that its a " risky situation."
> 
> Normal healthy relationships cannot exist without trust.
> 
> ...





anony2 said:


> If my husband could not have sex because of diabetes, low testosterone, a heart attack or anything else, I would not divorce him because I married him for better or worse, not for better and what I EXPECTED from him. My husband has some issues from growing up that are not related to sexual abuse that I know about, and it causes problems between us, and it causes me to feel rejected at times, but I understand that is HIS problem to deal with and what I can do for him is give him a safe environment to deal with it in, like he has done for me.
> 
> One of the things that my counselor explained to me is that a person cannot be FORCED into dealing with being molested, they have to deal with it when they are emotionally ready to deal with it. I was 43 years old before I was able to deal with it and I am still dealing with the effects that it has had on me. It was hard for me to see any sexual advances as anything other than predatory.
> 
> *If you cannot deal with her past, then divorce her, but be aware that you are adding to the emotional scarring. * There are many other ways to be intimate with your wife besides sex, and in doing so, it will help HER gain trust in you to be able to open up to you.


If anyone is painting someone as a DEMON it is you by acting as if SHE is an abuser by her vagina closing up as if she could help it and SHE is no more of an abuser because her vagina is closing up than my husband is an abuser because he doesn't get turned on by the thought of anal sex. 

In my initial post I gave advice on how to work though this problem if it was indeed PHYSICAL, then if it was EMOTIONAL. 
You instead have fanned the flames of his marriage and made him question it even more instead of GIVING HIM THE HELP that he needs FOR HIS MARRIAGE, after all this website is called TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE, and not WE RECOMMEND DIVORCE. 

He is well within his right to leave the marriage if he cannot handle working though this with her or he can stay with her til she is ready to. By his initial post and his discussing counseling, I can see that he is trying to work on the problem as she is also, by suggesting SEX counseling which would be beneficial. 

Because of the nature of the problem, it requires her to be in an emotionally SAFE environment in order to address the problem. If she doesn't feel emotionally safe, she cannot even attempt to work through it. Again, this is not something you can force someone to do by saying if you do not work though it, you will leave them. 

Maybe I am an old softy, but even if me and my husband were to divorce, if I knew that he had experienced something along the lines of molestation, I would choose not to add to his trauma by making him feel guilty for not giving me something that was stolen from him.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

anony2 said:


> If anyone is painting someone as a DEMON it is you by acting as if SHE is an abuser by her vagina closing up as if she could help it and SHE is no more of an abuser because her vagina is closing up than my husband is an abuser because he doesn't get turned on by the thought of anal sex.
> 
> In my initial post I gave advice on how to work though this problem if it was indeed PHYSICAL, then if it was EMOTIONAL.
> You instead have fanned the flames of his marriage and made him question it even more instead of GIVING HIM THE HELP that he needs FOR HIS MARRIAGE, after all this website is called TALK ABOUT MARRIAGE, and not WE RECOMMEND DIVORCE.
> ...



Lest we forget,
These are the issues according to what was posted by the OP HIMSELF.

1]"....I just turned 26 yrs old and my wife will be 26 soon. We have been married for 3 years, no kids. *We were good friends before marriage and both raised in Christian homes so we managed to stay virgins...."*

2]*"........I became frustrated sexually and emotionally. She started treating me with little respect and always tried to control things in my life........."*

3]"......Second session was trying to figure out why wife gets upset easy at little things. Wife said she's not sure how much she trusts this counsellor in helping us and *she wants us to see a sex therapist so that I can get help in wanting to do the deed with her after being rejected for so long........"*

4]*".....I'm just not sure I still love her after what she put me through and I don't want to live like this for the rest of my life...."*

5]* "....We both want kids in a few years and now I'm not sure I want her to be the mother of my kids.* Please offer your advice........"


If I have missed any , you can surely QUOTE the OP and post it in response.

EVERYTHING elss is pure speculation.
Lets stick with the facts of THIS case as presented.

I await your response.

EDIT.............................................................................................................................................................

No intent on hijacking this thread, but I hope you can finally see, based on your arguments,that a person's sexual history DOES have an effect on their marriage!


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

There's a world of difference between "can't" fix something and "won't" fix something. And since she's not willing to try to to resolve the issue, she's in the "won't" category.

I wouldn't stay with an alcoholic who wasn't actively trying to stay sober, I wouldn't stay with a partner who ballooned up to 400 pounds and refused to see a doctor to start addressing the medical side as a start, and I wouldn't stay with a partner who refused to have sex yet refused to work on resolving the issue. Sorry, but life is too short, and I've only got one kick at things. And sometimes, people need to hit bottom before they start looking at how their actions affect those they claim to love.

Marriage vows are for monogamy, not celibacy. That's the priest's vows. Different ceremony.

C


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Lest we forget,
> These are the issues according to what was posted by the OP HIMSELF.
> 
> 1]"....I just turned 26 yrs old and my wife will be 26 soon. We have been married for 3 years, no kids. *We were good friends before marriage and both raised in Christian homes so we managed to stay virgins...."*
> ...


You have every intent to hijack this thread, and guess what, her being molested, is not a "sexual history"...

The rest of what you have said is quoting the OP, and adding NOTHING to this thread. 

I have just as much as a right as you do to give my opinion in this thread or any other thread on this board, if you do not like my opinion, IGNORE IT and leave me the **** alone.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

anony2 said:


> You have every intent to hijack this thread, and guess what, her being molested, is not a "sexual history"...
> 
> *The rest of what you have said is quoting the OP, and adding NOTHING to this thread. *
> 
> *I have just as much as a right as you do to give my opinion in this thread or any other thread on this board, if you do not like my opinion, IGNORE IT and leave me the **** alone.*


And t I actually thought that we were having a mature , progressive discussion.

Sad.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

PBear said:


> *There's a world of difference between "can't" fix something and "won't" fix something. And since she's not willing to try to to resolve the issue, she's in the "won't" category.*
> 
> I wouldn't stay with an alcoholic who wasn't actively trying to stay sober, I wouldn't stay with a partner who ballooned up to 400 pounds and refused to see a doctor to start addressing the medical side as a start, and I wouldn't stay with a partner who refused to have sex yet refused to work on resolving the issue. Sorry, but life is too short, and I've only got one kick at things. And sometimes, people need to hit bottom before they start looking at how their actions affect those they claim to love.
> 
> ...



Funny thing is,
I totally agree that he SHOULD STAY and try to work it out,but keep his options open.
It is a risky situation, like I have said before.

But some people seem to think that he is OBLIGATED to stay and accept her behaviour, even though he is suffering.
Nothing could be further from the truth.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

PBear said:


> There's a world of difference between "can't" fix something and "won't" fix something. And since she's not willing to try to to resolve the issue, she's in the "won't" category.


Again, from the OP's OWN POST, they tried to address the PHYSICAL aspect, not the emotional. We don't know WHY she doesn't trust the first counselor. It could easily be a "vibe" she got... How did the questioning start? We do not know because we were not there. 

Everything we ALL have posted in response to the OP has been speculation as to the issue in their marriage...EVERYTHING. 

CM, you said to stick to the FACTS presented? Fine.

When Missymrs80 asked:



missymrs80 said:


> *Was she abused in the past?*



This was the OP's response:



cruzinmikey said:


> *Once when she was 11. *Orally copulated. Which is strange because that is really the only way I can make her go off. *She's pretty convinced that it hasn't affected her in our relationship because she doesn't remember it that well but I'm sure it leaves a lasting effect.*



Now, facts? She was abused. It has carried over into their marriage. It has affected her, obviously. Who knows? Maybe there was more to it than she has revealed. We don't know. The OP doesn't know. All we know is that she was sexually abused in some way and it has affected her...EVEN THE OP THINKS IT HAS! Addressing the PHYSICAL relationship isn't going to do any good if the EMOTIONAL problems aren't taken care of. And, as one other stated...her use of control over her husband could very well be her attempt at taking back control that was taken from her 15 years ago. Again, WE DON"T KNOW. Which is why I suggested that if he wants to HELP her, then research therapists, IC/MC & sex therapists. If she still balks, then yes, walk. 

I'm not saying wait around for 5, 10, 20, etc years. Pretty sure the OP can figure out for himself when to call it quits if she refuses to address this any further. Many people don't like the first counselor after the first or second visit. This is why I suggest "shopping around" for one. 

I feel for them both. I know I couldn't just walk away like that if my HUSBAND had gone through such trauma and it caused us to be unable to consummate the marriage. If I knew there were psychological issues preventing us from being intimate, I would address THOSE before suggesting that he take pills or any other PHYSICAL "fix" to the issue. I want the WHOLE man, not just the physical part. And then, if it wasn't happening, I would walk, IF he refused to address it. Address the PSYCHOLOGICAL or EMOTIONAL. 

But, I guess that just makes me more patient.... or compassionate.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Funny thing is,
> I totally agree that he SHOULD STAY and try to work it out,but keep his options open.
> It is a risky situation, like I have said before.
> 
> ...


Wait, who has said he has to accept her behavior? Every post I have read, AND POSTED, has said for him to help her get the help she needs. I do NOT think he should put up with the poor treatment. And the ones who have said he will add to the emotional scarring were saying it in response to those who said for him to leave and never look back.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Wait, who has said he has to accept her behavior? Every post I have read, AND POSTED, has said for him to help her get the help she needs.* I do NOT think he should put up with the poor treatment.* And the ones who have said he will add to the emotional scarring were saying it in response to those who said for him to leave and never look back.


 ^^^^^^^^^^
And this is what everybody else is saying Maricha.
This man has been extremely patient,very understanding .
At this point he is emotionally scarred and confused. He does not know what to do.
He married this woman knowing fully well of her problem, and was willing t work on it.
Now three years later, it has gotten worse, and there is no guarantee that it will ever get better.

At what point should he decide that enough is enough?

This is painful to him, because he does not want to leave her.

But he also has needs.

ETA...........
All of us here are either married or have been married. We have had the pleasure of sex with our spouses for sometime, so if because of circumstances , we have to give it up , we could rationalize it. This man has never had sex with his wife, even before they were married.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^
> And this is what everybody else is saying Maricha.
> This man has been extremely patient,very understanding .
> At this point he is emotionally scarred and confused. He does not know what to do.
> ...


See, and what I got from the OP is that he wanted to help her in the PHYSICAL aspect. I'll be honest. I have no clue what a sex therapist does. Seriously, when I hear "sex therapist" I think of someone who pushes to have sex without addressing any underlying issues. And, the majority of the respondents who have not addressed the sexual abuse of his wife have been clamoring for him to just divorce him and move on. Yes, I agree, he is obviously conflicted as to what course of action to follow. What do we normally say to someone when they tell us "spouse (or I) doesn't trust first counselor to help...thoughts?" We tell them to find one who WILL. And that's what he should do. No, I don't think he should let this go on for years... meaning, I think he should set a time limit for himself to see improvement. 

You know... I just had a thought... OP, have you tried other methods? What I mean is... would you (or even she) be opposed to trying toys? Start with something smaller and work from there? Or even fingers? Will she even let you touch her there? 


But yes, I still maintain that OP, you need to search for a therapist...research them and narrow it to a couple to try. If none of those work, then yes, move on. At that point, you will KNOW she is not ready/unwilling to try to fix this... and you will be able to say, without a doubt, that you tried the best you could. You told her NOW that you are serious about this... give that a fair amount of time.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> ETA...........
> All of us here are either married or have been married. We have had the pleasure of sex with our spouses for sometime, so if because of circumstances , we have to give it up , we could rationalize it. This man has never had sex with his wife, even before they were married.


Which is why I wish SA would weigh in because of the 3 month (again, I know 3 months is WAY less than 3 years!) she and her husband were unable to consummate.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> And t I actually thought that we were having a mature , progressive discussion.
> 
> Sad.


Anony was having a mature discussion, you not so much. More inflammatory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> See, and what I got from the OP is that he wanted to help her in the PHYSICAL aspect. I'll be honest. I have no clue what a sex therapist does. Seriously, when I hear "sex therapist" I think of someone who pushes to have sex without addressing any underlying issues. And, the majority of the respondents who have not addressed the sexual abuse of his wife have been clamoring for him to just divorce him and move on. Yes, I agree, he is obviously conflicted as to what course of action to follow. What do we normally say to someone when they tell us "spouse (or I) doesn't trust first counselor to help...thoughts?" We tell them to find one who WILL. And that's what he should do.* No, I don't think he should let this go on for years... meaning, I think he should set a time limit for himself to see improvement. *


^^^^^^^^^^
This right here is my thinking. But I even question my thoughts on the issue because with matters such as sexual abuse a time frame cannot be given for a person to recover.

So where does that leave him?
He has absolutely no guarantee.
He is in a catch 22 situation and he is a young man with his whole life ahead of him.

That is why I said its a risky situation and it can go either way.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> See, and what I got from the OP is that he wanted to help her in the PHYSICAL aspect.


I don't know how you got that. I'm sure that the OP would support whatever methods, be they treatment by physical therapists, counselors, or witch doctors, that would result in a satisfying sex life with his wife.



Maricha75 said:


> I'll be honest. I have no clue what a sex therapist does. Seriously, when I hear "sex therapist" I think of someone who pushes to have sex without addressing any underlying issues.


You're wrong. A licensed sex therapist is simply a mental health professional with extra training in sexual issues. Any sex therapist would obviously have a great deal of experience, probably more than a traditional counselor, in handling sexual abuse.



Maricha75 said:


> No, I don't think he should let this go on for years... meaning, I think he should set a time limit for himself to see improvement.


The problem is, there is a limit to a person's capacity for suffering. And the OP is already three years down this road. Even if it were possible for him to have sex with his wife, three years puts a LOT of resentment in the tank. It may be too much to overcome.

It's a sad situation that is, unfortunately, common. A wife mistreats her husband. The husband suffers in silence until finally breaking. Upon breaking, the wife suddenly finds motivation to stop mistreating her husband. But, by then, it's too late. And vice versa.

My opinion is that it may be possible for the OP's wife to eventually be able to have sex with her husband. But, I very much doubt that the OP will ever be able to have a satisfying sex life with her.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

anony2 said:


> Your wife has vaginismus.


Is that a definitive medical diagnosis you are making? I call bull$hit. Dangerous bull$hit, at that.

OP - sorry to hear about this... it must be horribly frustrating. You guys should get in counseling, as has been pointed out. Get help from a professional, not from in internet discussion forum that is populated by people in damaged, broken and problematic relationships.

(OK TAM folks.... Let me have it....)

Dont underestimate what abuse can do to someone. My guess is that though it may not be the entire issue here, this needs to be addressed. If you do this - be sure you find someone qualified and has pratical experience with abuse.... and not simply a marriage coach. Ideally both - and it may not be the same person(s).

The people advocating divorce in this thread are idiots frankly.

You ARE married and having a problem from the start - not an easy place to be - but clearly it deserves your continued effort. You both have tried to some extent to work through it - and have so far failed - get some help and see where it leads.

Good luck.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

anonim said:


> Anony was having a mature discussion, you not so much. More inflammatory.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Arguing that a man who has never had sex with his wife hasn't been traumatized is mature? Seriously? I'll just say you're wrong.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> Is that a definitive medical diagnosis you are making? I call bull$hit. Dangerous bull$hit, at that.
> 
> OP - sorry to hear about this... id must be horribly frustrating. You guys should get in counseling, as has been pointed out. Get help from a professional, not from in internet discussion forum that is populated by people in damaged, broken and problematic relationships.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

This is what I've been trying to say all along.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> ...A wife mistreats her husband...


'mistreats'. That sort of thinking is so damaged. 

If part of the issue is mental health related to abuse, it is equivilent to suggesting that if a wife is depressed or has cancer - she is 'mistreating' her husband. Good gravy. :scratchhead:

And your assertion that the husband will probably never be able to have a satisfying sex life with her is based on nothing, really. Give it up. The OP is looking for help in solving a problem, not help in the easiest way, or reasons for ending it.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> *My opinion is that it may be possible for the OP's wife to eventually be able to have sex with her husband. But, I very much doubt that the OP will ever be able to have a satisfying sex life with her.*


:iagree:

Again,
This is why I have been saying ad nauseam , that there is an emotional aspect to what the OP is going through.
Its not just the sex. Resentment is a powerful emotion that can damage relationships to the point where everything, even peripheral issues become a problem and nothing works.

Three years is a long time.
A lifetime is a *v e r y* long time.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

anotherguy said:


> 'mistreats'. That sort of thinking is so damaged.
> 
> If part of the issue is mental health related to abuse, it is equivilent to suggesting that if a wife is depressed or has cancer - she is 'mistreating' her husband. Good gravy. :scratchhead:


I will make allowances for the possibility that the OP's wife has PTSD, or some other emotional trauma that makes sex difficult, or impossible for her. What I do NOT make allowances for, is a wife having a mental health issue that precludes her from having sex with her husband, and ignoring it for years.

And I would make the same pronouncement regardless of the cause. Whether it be physical, or emotional. A wife who is content to condemn her husband to celibacy rather than address the issue is mistreating her husband. It just amazes me how many are so quick to excuse the mistreatment.



anotherguy said:


> And your assertion that the husband will probably never be able to have a satisfying sex life with her is based on nothing, really. Give it up. The OP is looking for help in solving a problem, not help in the easiest way, or reasons for ending it.


My assertion is based on reading through thousands of threads on this, and other, marriage and sex forums. There are a few success stories of couples who overcome serious issues and have satisfying sex lives. But, they are vastly outnumbered by couples who have serious issues, work on them, and never overcome them. To assert that the OP has a good chance for success is, at best, wishful thinking.

And I haven't suggested a course of action for the OP. That's up to him. But, I won't sit here and blow sunshine up his ass by suggesting that some counselor(s) will be able to turn her from a quivering mess into a sensual tigress.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I know for me, sex is one of the main ways that I feel and express love. Without sex I seriously don't believe I could fall in love with a woman. And if I did, it wouldn't last long term. It would become more like a father daughter relationship. Impossible to see her as a wife or to be 'in love' with her.


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> Is that a definitive medical diagnosis you are making? I call bull$hit. Dangerous bull$hit, at that.
> 
> OP - sorry to hear about this... it must be horribly frustrating. You guys should get in counseling, as has been pointed out. Get help from a professional, not from in internet discussion forum that is populated by people in damaged, broken and problematic relationships.
> 
> ...


When a woman cannot be penetrated without it being painful it is called vaginismus. It isn't a "diagnosis", it is a general term to a specific event. This is what the OP is describing in his post. I know this because I have been diagnosed with the same thing and was also told the same thing by a doctor about getting dilated. 

"Vaginismus [vaj-uh-niz-muh s]¹ 
Vaginismus is a condition where there is *involuntary tightness* of the vagina during attempted intercourse. The tightness is actually caused by involuntary contractions of the pelvic floor muscles surrounding the vagina.* The woman does not directly control or 'will' the tightness to occur; it is an involuntary pelvic response*. She may not even have any awareness that the muscle response is causing the tightness or penetration problem."


"Types of vaginismus
*When a woman has never at any time been able to have pain-free intercourse due to this muscle spasm her condition is known as primary vaginismus.* Some women with primary vaginismus are unable to wear tampons and/or complete pelvic exams. *Many couples are unable to consummate their relationship due to primary vaginismus.* [see Symptoms]"

What is vaginismus? - Vaginismus.com


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> Arguing that a man who has never had sex with his wife hasn't been traumatized is mature? Seriously? I'll just say you're wrong.


what are you talking about???

What im saying is one member is contributing to a solution to the OPs wifes problem (and thereby the husbands primary problem) 

The second is not contributing any help or solutions to the OP and is being derisive to other members that are. That is not mature.

That being said, here's what I think about the OPs situation;

He waited too long to bring up the issue that was important to him; that's on him. He cared about his wife obviously, else he would have cheated on or left her but he should have pushed the issue a lot earlier to save himself the resentment he now feels. That is a self respect issue.

He is well within his rights to stay with, or leave, his wife without shame or guilt. No one is obligated to stay in any relationship that makes them unhappy, for any reason whatsoever. 

They are not obligated to leave either even if they are unhappy in a relationship.

However, they should know all their options and sit down and think, decide and communicate to their partner what they are willing to endure and for how long, at the onset of any potentially long term/permanent issues.

The OPs wife having been molested creates unforeseeable consequences which will affect any relationship she will be in; if the OP leaves her she will still have this problem, if he stays she will still have this problem - it needs to be resolved or managed - end of story.

The OP is not responsible for this happening to his wife, nor is his wife responsible for this happening to herself.

Maybe the OP will be the one to help her with it, maybe he wont. But life will go on regardless. So the OP should ideally decide what he wants _for him_ to be able to live a happy life.


my personal recommendations; 
OP, you waited 3 years, give it another 6 months.
It will of course be hard, but she should see a specialized counselor for her sexual abuse, even if she has to 'shop around' for a good one (a female would be best IMO) and you should see an individual councelor.

Both of you should see a sex therapist for your 'relations'

IF you are unhappy with progress in 6 months time, then you are free to choose to end you relationship or continue it - with a clear conscience.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

anonim said:


> what are you talking about???


You wrote that anony was having a mature discussion. I disagree. She argued, repeatedly, that a man, basically, should not expect a sex life with his wife. And that being deprived of a sex life would not be traumatic for a man. That's not only not mature, it's downright stupid.



anonim said:


> What im saying is one member is contributing to a solution to the OPs wifes problem (and thereby the husbands primary problem)
> 
> The second is not contributing any help or solutions to the OP and is being derisive to other members that are. That is not mature.


I think anony was more derisive than CaribbeanMan. Stating that a man who has reached his breaking point, after years of celibacy, should remain in his celibate marriage, or take responsibility for damaging his wife's fragile state of mind seems cruel, frankly.

As for the rest of your post, I agree whole heartedly. The OP waited too long to force the issue. He is free to stay or leave, as he chooses. The OP's wife needs to resolve her problem(s) in order to have a sex life with her husband, or someone else in the future.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

cruzinmikey said:


> Second session was trying to figure out why wife gets upset easy at little things. Wife said she's not sure how much she trusts this counsellor in helping us and she wants us to see a sex therapist so that I can get help in wanting to do the deed with her after being rejected for so long..


Does your counsellor know about the abuse and is he(she?) both qualified and has experience with that type of situation? If you dont know - you need to ask and make no bones about it.

This is going to make the 'she is mistreating you' crowd, again, crazy. 

Ditch the counsellor - your wife has already checked out if she says she doesnt trust them. No trust = no useful information. This will demonstrate that you are on her side (yes, we alll know you are already - as should she.) Tell her that you are on her side - that you want - for the sake of both of you - to keep working on it and that you think the change would be helpful if you both found someone else. Maybe a male/female counselling team - but you think that you both have a better chance of success if you both work on this as a team.

Anony2 - I appreciate your trying to make the distinction but the fact is - the situation should be evaluated by a doctor - as you were yourself. Vaginismus refers to specific muscle spasms and this may not be it. I admit that the term (I didnt know this) is sort of like saying 'headache'... but none of us know what is _*really*_ going on there, and indeed only have the husbands 2nd hand account.

'we are not doctors, nor do we play one on the internets'. 

Painful intercourse (dyspareunia): Causes - MayoClinic.com


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

PHTlump said:


> I don't know how you got that. I'm sure that the OP would support whatever methods, be they treatment by physical therapists, counselors, or witch doctors, that would result in a satisfying sex life with his wife.


It was from the first post. She went to do the dilator treatment, to try to stretch her vagina...and she discontinued. Yea, I know, we are only speculating, but I am pretty sure she clammed up because of what happened to her 15 years ago. So, how long did the OP wait between that incident and putting his foot down, saying this was stopping, NOW? 

Yes, I am sure he would support treatment to help his wife. What my problem with this whole thing is that some have said (or maybe only implied?) to just divorce her and move on. I agree, it is wrong to go on for so long without any attempts at improvement. But... he DID allow it. He DID allow the resentment to build. He allowed this for 3 years... He is equally to blame for that. I also believe the resentment will continue to build unless they actually DO address the whole problem...ALL of it, not just her getting upset at little things and not just the lack of sex. 

One thing I do wonder though... she says she wants children in a few years, too.... How does she expect them to be conceived? OP, you could address this as well, in therapy at some point... She MAY be one who sees PIV sex as for procreation ONLY. Sad point of view, I know, but it is another possibility to the whole equation.




PHTlump said:


> You're wrong. A licensed sex therapist is simply a mental health professional with extra training in sexual issues. Any sex therapist would obviously have a great deal of experience, probably more than a traditional counselor, in handling sexual abuse


Yea, that's why I said it's what comes to mind lol. I know it's not what my FIRST thought was. And I think a sex therapist would fit best in this situation, tbh...for BOTH OP and his wife.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Just for the record... I didn't mean to imply he should pack up his bags and move out. But after 3 years, I think it may be time to start putting down a plan. And if she isn't an active participant in resolving the issue, then he starts taking more drastic steps. I would expect progress might be slow, and there may be setbacks along the way. But it will be better than the current situation, which appears to be that things are stopped dead in the water because she doesn't want to take any steps in any direction, and insists her prior abuse isn't an issue. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anony2 (Apr 28, 2012)

anotherguy said:


> Does your counsellor know about the abuse and is he(she?) both qualified and has experience with that type of situation? If you dont know - you need to ask and make no bones about it.
> 
> This is going to make the 'she is mistreating you' crowd, again, crazy.
> 
> ...


anotherguy, The OP stated that she had been to the doctor and they recommended dilation. He just did not mention what it was called that they recommended it for. 

I agree, we do not know what is REALLY going on here, thus why I went by the husbands OP and recommended mediation, giving her the control of when they have sex, and counseling, because that is what worked for me.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Again,
> This is why I have been saying ad nauseam , that there is an emotional aspect to what the OP is going through.
> ...


resentment has definitley taken its toll..


WorkingOnMe said:


> I know for me, sex is one of the main ways that I feel and express love. Without sex I seriously don't believe I could fall in love with a woman. And if I did, it wouldn't last long term. It would become more like a father daughter relationship. Impossible to see her as a wife or to be 'in love' with her.


this has made it very hard for me to see her as a wife and be in love with her, feels like roomates


anonim said:


> That being said, here's what I think about the OPs situation;
> 
> He waited too long to bring up the issue that was important to him; that's on him. He cared about his wife obviously, else he would have cheated on or left her but he should have pushed the issue a lot earlier to save himself the resentment he now feels. That is a self respect issue.
> 
> .


you may think i was wrong for waiting too long to bring up the issue, but i told her several times that us not having sex was effecting our marriage negativley. i guesss she didnt take me that seriously, thats on her. i think its pretty common sense that if you are married and you are not having sex with your spouse, then it is not ok for whatever reason. i didnt want to beg her for it or ask her for it. i felt that if i did that, then she would only be doing it out of mercy, and really because it was something that she desired too


Maricha75 said:


> It was from the first post. She went to do the dilator treatment, to try to stretch her vagina...and she discontinued. Yea, I know, we are only speculating, but I am pretty sure she clammed up because of what happened to her 15 years ago. So, how long did the OP wait between that incident and putting his foot down, saying this was stopping, NOW?
> 
> Yes, I am sure he would support treatment to help his wife. What my problem with this whole thing is that some have said (or maybe only implied?) to just divorce her and move on. I agree, it is wrong to go on for so long without any attempts at improvement. But... he DID allow it. He DID allow the resentment to build. He allowed this for 3 years... He is equally to blame for that. I also believe the resentment will continue to build unless they actually DO address the whole problem...ALL of it, not just her getting upset at little things and not just the lack of sex.
> 
> ...


havnt brought up the discussion on children yet. i dont see how im equally to blame for this. she was the one refusing.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

ok. so over the last few days she has shown deep concern over our well being. i can tell that she really wants to make this work at all costs. the counsellor suggested making an appt for a gyno before our last meeting which was friday. 2 hours before the therapy appt she was on the phone scheduling gyno appt, so it kinda made me raise an eyebrow...was she doing this cuz she really wanted to or only to satisfy the counsellors request???

as a person, i really love and care for her. these 3 years though have made it difficult for to view sex with her as something passionate and enjoyable though. she told me that she intentionally pushed out the idea of sex after our first year because we were unsuccessful. she said she hated the idea of sex and did not want to think about it because of the failure. 

i am all for helping her, but now, she feels as shes ready to confront this and wants to start having sex now. im not ready for that. i know this is sad, but the way she put this off on purpose altered the way i view sex. its just an act now. just a physical experience with no emotional connection. i feel like i could go have sex with some stranger turn around and have sex with my wife and feel no difference. i dont want that to be the case, im just saying i dont know if i have anything left in me to give.

i dont want her to feel as though i am expected to recover from this. all i want is that she be open to the idea that if i cant change the way i feel about this, then she needs to be willing to call it quits. i dont want either of us to get so emotionally attached that we cant split.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I think you're already gone. Perhaps you could make it back, but probably only if she suddenly became insatiable.....and I don't really see that happening.

I myself suffered through years of rejection after our 2nd child was born. I made a rule for myself. Whenever I'm rejected I will not initiate until she initiates 3 times. By that formula, I suspect that your wife has a lot of initiating to do if she really wants this fixed. She's got some catching up to do. It's going to be a while before you feel secure enough in your sex life to put yourself out there. To be vulnerable enough to try. And lets face it, she hasn't really even done step one yet. You're both still virgins.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

If it took her so long to schedule gyno, it appears she is doing only what is absolutely necessary. This will be her pattern. You may get a couple of passable years of sexual activity if she has her heart set on having kids. 

You have so much resentment built up, it's a dangerous situation for you and her. Lay it all on the line in MC. Don't hold back or spare feelings. You have to let her know exactly how and why this has hurt you so much and why it is prompting you to pull away from the relationship now. 

Once you have kids, she'll have hook that will keep you around longer than would otherwise be the case. Once she gets what she wants, my hunch is that the sex store will be closed for business once again.

Good luck.


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## anonim (Apr 24, 2012)

cruzinmikey said:


> you may think i was wrong for waiting too long to bring up the issue, but i told her several times that us not having sex was effecting our marriage negativley. i guesss she didnt take me that seriously, thats on her. i think its pretty common sense that if you are married and you are not having sex with your spouse, then it is not ok for whatever reason. i didnt want to beg her for it or ask her for it. i felt that if i did that, then she would only be doing it out of mercy, and really because it was something that she desired too
> 
> 
> haven't brought up the discussion on children yet. i dont see how im equally to blame for this. she was the one refusing.


I wouldn't use the word blame, I'd say instead, 'responsibility'

And you are equally responsible. Why? Because you tolerated something that was intolerable to you.

You showed your wife, via your actions, that you would tolerate a sexless marriage regardless of the personal cost to your emotional/mental state.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

My goodness.
OP, maybe it time you took * responsibility * for your life and emotional state of mind, and find someone you can love like a wife, and who can love you in the way a wife is supposed to love her husband.
Only YOU know the things you've been through. You have been very supportive of her and patient , and what have you got in return?
Three sexless years and some other forms of abuse.
listen,
STOP BLAMING YOURSELF, TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR HER ACTIONS.
You have tried your best.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

I wouldn't give up on her yet based on her baggage but that's just me. Personally though there comes a time when if one can't help themselves - NO ONE can help them.


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## Abstract Annie (Sep 13, 2012)

I haven't read all the replies, so I don't know where everyone stands on this, but I'll give you my story real quick.

Before my current marriage, I was married previously at the age of 18. I remained a virgin in that marriage until the age of 22. For me it was completely physical, I was literally too small and needed surgery. It's not common, but its not all that unusual either. Has your wife seen a doctor and been physically checked? It took me years before I worked up enough courage to be checked out.

My marriage ended in divorce, a large part of that was because we weren't connecting in the way a husband and wife should. I was young and really didn't understand how important sex was in a loving relationship. 

She may feel ashamed, which doesn't help, but there is hope. Fast forward 15 years and I'm happily married with three kids and enjoy sex with my husband...a lot! 

Encourage her to see a doctor and see what's going on. If she refuses, then you really need to evaluate the relationship.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Virginity is over-rated methinks... oops


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

cruzinmikey said:


> ok. so over the last few days she has shown deep concern over our well being. i can tell that she really wants to make this work at all costs. the counsellor suggested making an appt for a gyno before our last meeting which was friday. 2 hours before the therapy appt she was on the phone scheduling gyno appt, so it kinda made me raise an eyebrow...was she doing this cuz she really wanted to or only to satisfy the counsellors request???
> 
> as a person, i really love and care for her. these 3 years though have made it difficult for to view sex with her as something passionate and enjoyable though. she told me that she intentionally pushed out the idea of sex after our first year because we were unsuccessful. she said she hated the idea of sex and did not want to think about it because of the failure.
> 
> ...


Op,
Maybe you can set a a goal in your mind.
Work on your resentment issues.
The process of counselling has already started, give it a chance, but set a time frame in your mind to gauge her progress. 

If she makes a serious, meaningful change in her attitude towards you and towards sex, then your marriage is salvageable. It will be a long road , but the rewards would far outweigh these past three years.

If you can see no genuine effort by her to change, ie: is she's only doing this because you threatened to walk,then it will not work and you should consider your options.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

Ok so we had our first seesion with sex therapist yesterday. Wife went into therapy thinking it was going to "cure me" into wanting to have sex with her after getting hurt by all this. The whole session was devoted to the therapist helping her. They went over her childhood, abuse, parents, honeymoon, gyno, everything. Both wife and therapist are convinced abuse didnt play into part in whats going on now, since she was orally abused, and she loves getting oral from me, then most likely is not related.

however anony2 was right with the condition vaginismus. at least thats what the therapist said. she reccomended a set of different dilators and instructed her on how to use them. also she referred her for physical sex therapy, and she has an appt for that in a week and half. they are supposed to help you relax your pelvic floor muscles. 

what wife got from session is that she has a treatable condition that she didnt know she had. shes arguing that her ignorance of her condition somehow justifies the last 3 years. she thinks i am wrong for being resentful and not wanting to have sex with her.

i think i am allowed to have those feelings. i was never expecting her to "fix" herself. all i was hoping that she would somehow take it upon herself to realzie that something was missing from our relationship and deisre to do something about that. had she at least done that i would have been right beside her. 

i have an individual session with therapist next week and then wife has individual session with therapist the following week.

my wife believes that i dont have the right to be resentful and upset about the past 3 years. i dont think thats fair. this makes me want to have sex with her even less.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

Feelings are what they are. Can't apologize for having them. She can't dictate what you are to feel. She can only control how she reacts to your feelings. Either she can be empathetic to you and demonstrate that she understands how and why these feelings emerged. Or she can tell you that you are not right to have these feelings. If she does the latter, that does not speak well to her character. She's more concerned about the impact it has on her standing in the relationship rather than the actual impact it has on you.

That would speak volumes to me. It seems to be speaking to you, as well.

As I understand it, she wouldn't have gone to sex therapist had you not been pushing for outside help. Is this correct? 

You certainly could earn "husband of the decade" consideration if you were to be able to look into your heart and forgive her. But it's for you to decide when and how you get rid of this resentment. For her to tell you the equivalent of "just get over it," appears somewhat selfish.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I've been thinking about your situation a lot. First, I think you ABSOLUTELY have a right to feel resentful. It sounds like she's refusing to acknowledge her part in all this. 

Are you guys still virgins????

And what does this mean, sexual physical therapy? You haven't even had a chance to visit her yourself and you've been married 3 years.....but some therapist is going to work on her? I'm thinking I'd just want some instruction on how to do the therapy myself. I wouldn't want someone else poking around, but that's just me.

But the big thing I've been thinking about is you. The fact that you've stuck it out for so long, and you aren't completely pulling your hair out....are you really low drive yourself? It just seems to me that since you haven't really made push come to shove, and the fact you made it to age 23 as a virgin in and of itself...suggests to me that you're not that into it in the first place. Now with hindsight you realize how long it's been and you're resentful. I get that. Anyway, just thinking outloud.


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## cruzinmikey (Sep 29, 2012)

marriedtex, if it didnt push for outside help i would still be living in a sexless marriage. i can forgive her, and have, but i dont desire to have sex with her.

workingon me, yes we are both virgins. both grew up in christian homes that taught us to save our selves for marriage. look where that got us. i geuss the sexual phyical therapy has something to do with bioelectrical feedback things the place on your thighs or soemthing and they measure how your body reacts to stimuli? i honestly dont know if it involves any probing or poking.....

no i am not low drive. i have had to resort to a lot of self love. as far as staying a virgin til 23, i just believe i have a lot of self control, and honestly held to the belief that it was right to stay a virgin until married.


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