# Why does sex have to stop in a marraige?



## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

I know it's been asked a million times, but really think about it.

Why does sex have to stop when you're married? When I was dating my wife, I couldn't keep my hands off of her. We had sex at least 3 times a day every day. Sometimes, we would purposely have quickies during our lunch break.

But it's ironic that after I said "I do", the sex said "I don't". 

It's sad to me how Single people have more sex than us married people. Yes I know raising children is a *GIGANTIC* sex killer. But it still baffles my mind, because when all your children are in school, that gives you 8 hours to tear each other up, but nothing happens. Which is sad because when you had a 30 minute lunch break, you two would go at it like rabbits. 

Just some thoughts on my mind, I don't know if this is a rant or not.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> because when all your children are in school, that gives you 8 hours to tear each other up


Uh - doesn't that assume neither person is working during school hours, which is indeed, when most/many people are working? I'm not debating the rest of the question, but kids in school doesn't for most people automatically mean eight hours of nothing to do but sex, just saying.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

When you were having sex 3 times/day, were you in school at the time? Once you are "fully grown", i.e. on your own paying your bills and going to work, it would be practically impossible to go at it 3 times a day unless you take MAJOR and DRASTIC changes to try to make it possible. Married with kids, I'd say 3 - 5 times a week would be a good, healthy sex life. If you can get more than that, great! My circuit breaker would be 2 times a week.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Its the classic " Bait and Switch"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

For me, personally, if sex stopped after I got married, I would consider that a HUGE problem. I can see it becoming less frequent....plenty of threads about HD men with LD women (and LD men with HD women), but if it stops completely, I would end the relationship.

It's a deal breaker for me....you get married to someone, you are basically agreeing to have regular sex with that person for the duration of the marriage. That's the way I see it....no more sex, no more marriage (traumatic incidents aside).

If sex is important to you, don't marry someone who isn't into having sex with you. If they change after marriage, were they only having sex with you to get you to marry them? If that is the case, you got duped, and that is a cruel thing to do to someone. I'd end it for that too...to me that is similar to cheating, when you cheat someone out of a sex life by locking them into a marriage.

Kids change a marriage, but not enough to put an end to sex. The couple still needs to put their relationship high up on the scale of importance, and sex is a big part of your relationship.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

It's a good question.

Simple answer is that one partner losses interest in sex, or at elast loses some interest to the point that there is enough of a disparity between what they and the other spouses wants (in terms of frequency, type, duration, etc.) as to cause an issue.

The longer answer will involve how the LD partner doesn't put in the effort to maintain that higher level of sexual interaction. The reason for that could be something as basic as selfishness, or something much more complex, involving the HD person who may be neglecting the needs of the LD person, possibly and affair or abuse or even stress like you indicated, or other forms of stress such as a high demand job or financial factors.

Likely the biggest issue with sex is that there is a lack of communication, whether it be the lack of actual communication, or the lack of one partner to accept that there is a problem and work towards a solution.

In a nutshell it sucks. Or doesn't suck enough perhaps.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

-poor or declining health
-hormonal issues
-stress.massive amounts of stress:family,money,kids,work
-lack of time
-lack of excitement
-lack of attraction
-lack of focus
-stubborn outlook
-pride

ETA -lack of effort 
-Lack of orgasm
-Resentment for your spouse

Those are the things,to me at least,that cause sex issues in marriage.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> -poor or declining health
> -hormonal issues
> -stress.massive amounts of stress:family,money,kids,work
> -lack of time
> ...


I'd add 'lack of effort', unless that's what you meant by lack of focus.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I'd add 'lack of effort', unless that's what you meant by lack of focus.


I think it should be added,it's definitely different than lack of focus.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Elliott said:


> It's sad to me how Single people have more sex than us married people. Yes I know raising children is a *GIGANTIC* sex killer. But it still baffles my mind, because when all your children are in school, that gives you 8 hours to tear each other up, but nothing happens.
> 
> Just some thoughts on my mind, I don't know if this is a rant or not.


FWIW,saw this on men's health:
The average guy has sex about twice a week if he's married—a little less often (once) if he's single, a little more (three times) if he's single but shacking up.

If you're not hitting your number, work on your approach. In a University of New Orleans study, nearly 70 percent of men reported that when they initiate sex, they overestimate their partners' desire to get it on, most likely because they think women are like gas grills: Flick a switch and they get hot.

Talking to her—about work, family, the news—is the greatest aphrodisiac for a woman because it establishes a bond of sharing that she equates with romance. To you, it's conversation. To her, it's intimacy.



Elliott said:


> Which is sad because when you had a 30 minute lunch break, you two would go at it like rabbits.


I found once I got older and learned more about my body,that 30 minute lunch break quickie wasn't enough to get my mind and body into sex mode.The only time I'm up for a quickie with a time limit is when he has been flirting w/me or sending naughty texts. 
The key for us has been to keep sex on the brain as often as possible.When it isn't on my mind I'm more willing to put it off for another time.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

For the same reason that courting stops with marriage: people get lazy and take each other for granted. Some people seem to think that you shouldn't have to put forth any effort once you're married but sex should flow freely. Besides, if you have time for sex 3 times a day you have way too much time on your hands, and I bet you weren't putting out a whole lot of effort during each of those three times.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I found once I got older and learned more about my body,that 30 minute lunch break quickie wasn't enough to get my mind and body into sex mode.The only time I'm up for a quickie with a time limit is when he has been flirting w/me or sending naughty texts.
> The key for us has been to keep sex on the brain as often as possible.When it isn't on my mind I'm more willing to put it off for another time.


A real challenge I think is finding a woman who wants to have sex on her mind as often as possible. You are willing to go there because you want to. I'd reason to believe that a more 'typical' woman wouldn't be so keen to have ideas of sex on her mind as often.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

Elliott said:


> I know it's been asked a million times, but really think about it.
> 
> Why does sex have to stop when you're married? When I was dating my wife, I couldn't keep my hands off of her. We had sex at least 3 times a day every day. Sometimes, we would purposely have quickies during our lunch break.
> 
> But it's ironic that after I said "I do", the sex said "I don't".


I'm sure you're exaggerating when you say sex has stopped and that you mean the frequency has been reduced. It depends on how much. It would be very difficult for a married couple with jobs and/or having the responsibility of caring for a home to keep up that pace. I don't think its unreasonable to expect it to dwindle. 

IMO opinion even 3-5 times per week is good and should not be consider a bait and switch regardless of how frequent it was before.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> I'm sure you're exaggerating when you say sex has stopped and that you mean the frequency has been reduced. It depends on how much. It would be very difficult for a married couple with jobs and/or having the responsibility of caring for a home to keep up that pace. I don't think its unreasonable to expect it to dwindle.
> 
> IMO opinion even 3-5 times per week is good and should not be consider a bait and switch regardless of how frequent it was before.


3-5 times a week is not a Bait and Switch..it's very generous... I am sure many sexless victims of LD spouses here in TAM would be thrilled to have regular sex 3 times a week!


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I'd kill bunnies for 3-5 times a week.

Well ok, I wouldn't, but damn I'd be tempted too.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> I'd kill bunnies for 3-5 times a week.
> 
> Well ok, I wouldn't, but damn I'd be tempted too.


I would stomp their fuzzy little heads for 3-5 times a week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said: "A real challenge I think is finding a woman who wants to have sex on her mind as often as possible. You are willing to go there because you want to. I'd reason to believe that a more 'typical' woman wouldn't be so keen to have ideas of sex on her mind as often."


What you need to do is find typical highly sexual woman, one who knows she is highly sexual and has been throughout her life. This is not that much harder than finding a highly sexual man.

Men sometimes believe they are highly sexual, but aren't.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I found once I got older and learned more about my body,that 30 minute lunch break quickie wasn't enough to get my mind and body into sex mode.The only time I'm up for a quickie with a time limit is when he has been flirting w/me or sending naughty texts.
> The key for us has been to keep sex on the brain as often as possible.When it isn't on my mind I'm more willing to put it off for another time.


I agree the quickies didn't help me much. I'm the High Demand on in the marriage. But the thrill of it was great though. So many mall parking lots and mall bathrooms.. ahhh the memories.



lifeistooshort said:


> For the same reason that courting stops with marriage: people get lazy and take each other for granted. Some people seem to think that you shouldn't have to put forth any effort once you're married but sex should flow freely. Besides, if you have time for sex 3 times a day you have way too much time on your hands, and I bet you weren't putting out a whole lot of effort during each of those three times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're absolutely right, many times I've see some marriage take a 18 year break on the courting. It's not till the kids leave the house does the courting continue. For example my former coworker that had to "re-date" his wife after there 4th child left home for college. They spent the next 3 years touring the world, having sex in exotic places (some in public), dancing and enjoying life. Then they came back home and continued the courting locally.

I envy them.





committed4ever said:


> I'm sure you're exaggerating when you say sex has stopped....


No I'm not, there was a 3 year span where we only had sex every other month once or so (read my other posts, you'll get the full detail). 

But it's not just men, many people have a drastic slow down or complete stop to the sex. Then they start having affairs with other people because they've gotten used to the routine with there current spouse.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> kingsfan said: "A real challenge I think is finding a woman who wants to have sex on her mind as often as possible. You are willing to go there because you want to. I'd reason to believe that a more 'typical' woman wouldn't be so keen to have ideas of sex on her mind as often."
> 
> 
> What you need to do is find typical highly sexual woman, one who knows she is highly sexual and has been throughout her life. This is not that much harder than finding a highly sexual man.
> ...


That may not seem like a challenge in your eyes, but it is a challenge.

I think a lot of women like to think of themselves as highly sexual, and maybe they have been throughout their life even, but being a committed, long-term marriage isn't the same as being single, or in short-term relationships or any other form of relationship where sexual interaction can occur.

The volume of men on here complaining about a lack of sexuality in a marriage versus the number of women would support the belief that men are typically more high sexual than women, on average.

I do believe there are high sexual women, this site also supports that from posters such as yourself, but on average, men seek sex more often, and in larger variety, than the average woman. It's an unfortunate fact.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> *I'd kill bunnies for 3-5 times a week.*
> 
> Well ok, I wouldn't, but damn I'd be tempted too.


:lol::rofl: You're a funny person Kingsfan...That made me laugh.


On another quote, I agree that it's hard for some women. I know of a high demand female (a childhood friend of mine), she's always complaining about how her husband isn't giving her enough. I only know of three HD women (two of them are my ex's and the 3rd is the one I mentioned). 

It's just that every HD person I know has children. Some of them have tried the weight loss thing. Still no sex increase. Some of them have done the courting thing again (like when they were dating) still no sex increase plus they spend a small fortune on child care.

It's a tough situation, for those of us whom are parents, it's a matter of picking your moments and hoping your kids don't interrupt the spontaneous sex (which is the third best sex after make up sex & morning sex). My wife's friend got caught by her 8 year old daughter having spontaneous sex. The sad thing is that was their first time in 2 weeks having sex (well starting to). Needless to say, she was more pissed that she didn't have her hair pulled a butt smacked, than she was about being caught.

Me and most of the other married people I know it's all about timing. Yes kids and work makes it hard, but it's almost like sex becomes less of a priority the longer a marriage goes on.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> I'd reason to believe that a more 'typical' woman wouldn't be so keen to have ideas of sex on her mind as often.


This is where my small bit of understanding how low drive/ minimal sex people think and feel comes to an end I'm afraid.For me it's fun to have sex on the brain a lot,it's exciting and titillating throughout my dull work day.I can't grasp why folks would be against that in their lives.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> -poor or declining health
> -hormonal issues
> -stress.massive amounts of stress:family,money,kids,work
> -lack of time
> ...


Don't forget lack of orgasm! Lots of women have trouble having orgasms, so I can see how they'd lose interest over time if they weren't having orgasms. Associated with that is lack of foreplay. (Yes, I know, I know, every HD guy on TAM married to a LD woman is sure their wife orgasms easily, every time).

Also, add RESENTMENT toward their spouse to the list, although I guess you can bundle that in with lack of attraction.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> This is where my small bit of understanding how low drive/ minimal sex people think and feel comes to an end I'm afraid.For me it's fun to have sex on the brain a lot,it's exciting and titillating throughout my dull work day.I can't grasp why folks would be against that in their lives.


I wouldn't say they are against it. I'd say it just isn't on their minds; sex doesn't come to mind because it's not an internal driver for them.

For example, some people think about food all the time. Others do not.


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## Work-In-Progress (May 21, 2013)

Sadly that's the case. Case in point, my wife and I had a bit of a rough weekend. It all started when I was turned down Friday night. I won't go into detail, but suffice to say, I thought she was giving a signal she would be into it that night, but she ignored my initiating signals. So I was distanced the rest of the weekend in my frustration. I finally came clean about it this morning on Facebook when we were chatting. Long story short, she said she wanted some serious make up sex. Well, to try and keep the sexual thoughts going, I sent her a playful message a few minutes ago asking if she could leave work early with a winking smiley face. What do I get in reply? "Uh, no...."


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

norajane said:


> Don't forget lack of orgasm! Lots of women have trouble having orgasms, so I can see how they'd lose interest over time if they weren't having orgasms. Associated with that is lack of foreplay. (Yes, I know, I know, every HD guy on TAM married to a LD woman is sure their wife orgasms easily, every time).
> 
> Also, add RESENTMENT toward their spouse to the list, although I guess you can bundle that in with lack of attraction.


yes! Great additions Nora I completely forgot about the orgasm issue.I didn't want sex either when I couldn't orgasm.

Resentment is a huge one that I missed!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

norajane said:


> I wouldn't say they are against it. I'd say it just isn't on their minds; sex doesn't come to mind because it's not an internal driver for them.
> 
> For example, some people think about food all the time. Others do not.


The food analogy helps a bit.It's still tough to understand how someone else thinks.I'm so stuck in my own thought process about the sex thing.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yes! Great additions Nora I completely forgot about the orgasm issue.I didn't want sex either when I couldn't orgasm.
> 
> Resentment is a huge one that I missed!


The orgasm one is a massive piss off to me (pardon my French).

I can 100% agree that it is a legit reason, however my fiancee doesn't enjoy reciving (or giving for that matter ) oral sex, and vaginal sex is something she usually doesn't want last more than 5-10 minutes, so orgasms are almost impossible for me to give (she doesn't like me touching her down there very often either, so manual stimulation is out) yet she has said she would likely be more into sex if she could orgasm more often.

Rock and a hard spot.

If someone actually has the ability/opportunity to give their partner an orgasm on a regular basis and chooses not to, then he/she damn well deserve little/no sex.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

kingsfan said:


> The orgasm one is a massive piss off to me (pardon my French).
> 
> I can 100% agree that it is a legit reason, however my fiancee doesn't enjoy reciving (or giving for that matter ) oral sex, and vaginal sex is something she usually doesn't want last more than 5-10 minutes, so orgasms are almost impossible for me to give (she doesn't like me touching her down there very often either, so manual stimulation is out) yet she has said she would likely be more into sex if she could orgasm more often.
> 
> Rock and a hard spot.


I do not understand women like this! It's a bit insane (sorry!) to not want to be touched in the most arousing area of your body.

The mind. It boggles.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

FemBot said:


> I do not understand women like this! It's a bit insane (sorry!) to not want to be touched in the most arousing area of your body.
> 
> The mind. It boggles.


The reason for not wanting oral is because of an abuse she suffered when she was 14. It makes her very uncomfortable, which to a degree I can understand. When she gets drunk/tipsy though, I can chow down like it's an all you can eat buffet. Is it bad that a part of me wants to see her turn into a raving alcoholic?

As for not being touched down there, she's one of those who thinks that she is dirty down there ALL the time. Unless she is straight out of the shower, still dripping wet, she thinks it must smell/taste bad and therefore who would want to touch that?

And no matter how much I tell that if it was honestly that bad I wouldn't go down there myself, it doesn't matter. It's a no fly/tongue zone.

While I don't like that, it is also her body so whatever. As long as she's happy, right? Problem is, I think because she doesn't enjoy getting oral, it's also made her not enjoy giving oral either, and that is a problem for me.


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

For my wife, sex is rarely on her mind...until I put it there. So I light the fire, fan it a bit, then she most often heats up. Sometimes it becomes a raging inferno.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

romantic_guy said:


> For my wife, sex is rarely on her mind...until I put it there. So I light the fire, fan it a bit, then she most often heats up. Sometimes it becomes a raging inferno.


Yea, I could pour on a hundred gallons of jet fuel and it wouldnt make a difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JustPuzzled (Dec 12, 2012)

Elliott said:


> I know it's been asked a million times, but really think about it.
> 
> Why does sex have to stop when you're married?


Am I missing something? It doesn't have to stop. It has not for me and my wife (together 25+ years, 2 kids).

The frequency varied, but it never stopped. Now that the kids are older and out of the house more we are at it all over the house as often as possible.

Is this unusual?


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

JustPuzzled said:


> Am I missing something? It doesn't have to stop. It has not for me and my wife (together 25+ years, 2 kids).
> 
> The frequency varied, but it never stopped. Now that the kids are older and out of the house more we are at it all over the house as often as possible.
> 
> Is this unusual?


 I envy you...

And 

ScarletBegonias and kingsfan are having such a wonderful public conversation, I feel like this was there post and not mine.
Do I get some credit for breaking the ice


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Thound said:


> Its the classic " Bait and Switch"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes, I agree. Once the man puts a ring on her finger all the stuff that he did to make her feel special or important to him stops. His job is done as far as he's concerned.


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## Unaware (Jan 7, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Men sometimes believe they are highly sexual, but aren't.


:iagree:

I have not yet had a partner who can/ will keep up with my drive for longer than a few months


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes, I agree. Once the man puts a ring on her finger all the stuff that he did to make her feel special or important to him stops. His job is done as far as he's concerned.


And vice versa.


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## JustPuzzled (Dec 12, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> Yes, I agree. Once the man puts a ring on her finger all the stuff that he did to make her feel special or important to him stops. His job is done as far as he's concerned.


You're kidding, right?


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

JustPuzzled said:


> You're kidding, right?


I cannot believe a woman actually verbalized this.


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## ginger-snap (Apr 10, 2013)

Elliott said:


> Why does sex have to stop when you're married?


You'll have to ask my husband. The only answer I get is "I don't know...I just don't feel like it."


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Part of it might have to deal with your view on sex. The assumption (on TAM) in general seems to be that it's a mismatch in physical/mental desire. But - at least on the local scene, where conservative religion is big - sex is seen as primarily a venue for childbearing. Thus - when childbearing stops - so does sex. 



> Yes, I agree. Once the man puts a ring on her finger all the stuff that he did to make her feel special or important to him stops. His job is done as far as he's concerned.


Which - likewise seems to go with this. If your main idea is that marriage is a religious venue fueled towards godliness and reproduction, then - romance isn't really high on the list of importance. Your need to pick a partner that you enjoy romance with, or hell - just even enjoy in general isn't really of prime importance. And honestly, I've never seen so many mismatched unhappy couples in my life as I did in our old church. 

When we used to attend, this was a frequent biting commentary by older women in the congregation when me and my husband were too openly affectionate (holding hands during serving, sharing a hymnal etc). "Just wait til he doesn't want to sit next to you at all." I could totally go on with this, but the whole discussion would need it's own thread. 

So - for some portion of people it might be a cultural/religious thing. Which is obviously furthered if you don't believe in birth control, and thus you need to consider babies any/every time you do think about sex.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> Part of it might have to deal with your view on sex. The assumption (on TAM) in general seems to be that it's a mismatch in physical/mental desire. But - at least on the local scene, where conservative religion is big - sex is seen as primarily a venue for childbearing. Thus - when childbearing stops - so does sex.


This is actually logical, as I used to think that sex naturally will become less important after my son was born. In my culture, having children is a blessing especially having a son. I also thought that my wife should be in "mama" mode and all of her concentration should be on my son, as my concentration should be on my work, to better provide for my family. The disconnect was that she didn't feel that way while I did. Coupled with communication problem, and there goes a year of no sex due to misunderstanding. I thought we both wanted it less. I was wrong.


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## khaleesivirge (Jul 2, 2013)

Please stop blaming having kids for the lack of sex... that's not even an obstacle if you really WANT it. Just today as my kids were down for a nap my Husband and I went at it like ANIMALS!!!! Ravenous, wild ANIMALS! Don't let that be an excuse to not enjoy what was yours BEFORE they were even thought of..


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

JustPuzzled said:


> You're kidding, right?


Why do you think I'm kidding? You don't think there are men out there that stop the romance or "dating" once the vows are said, just like there are women that stop the sex once the ring is on her finger? (BTW, I do believe there are women that purposely do that.) Some men can be lazy, "I gave her a wedding, I'll get regular sex, now I don't need to put in anymore effort". Why is that hard to believe? Don't we see advice on here all the time telling men to keep dating their wives? I'm not talking about doing more chores, (I think that advice is silly), I'm talking about treating your wife like you're are still crazy in love with her.

Before marriage my husband and I still lived at home with our parents, so we had be creative when and where we had sex. When we got married, lots of noisy sex in every room of our house was on my mind. After the first year of marriage his choices to spend his time elsewhere, (the gym for 2-3 hours then computer games for 2-3 hours, golf on the weekends), really made me feel disconnected. Romance, flirting, making out and dates all stopped. I would try to engage him but he wanted to do what he wanted to do.

In my late 20's, I didn't know about "His Needs, Her Needs". I didn't equate time spent nurturing a relationship helped with attraction and connection. All I knew at the time was that I felt alone in my marriage, my husband didn't give care about me anymore and didn't want to be seen or spend time with me. I would talk to him about these issues and he would change for a while then it would go back.

Advice is couples should spend 15 hours a week together. My husband was spending that much time with his workout friends. I guess they had a pretty good relationship at the time but he was being turned down for sex at home. BTW, these issues are still there, not as bad, but there. I've come to the conclusion that he's just clueless.


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## NewHubs (Dec 23, 2012)

khaleesivirge said:


> Please stop blaming having kids for the lack of sex... that's not even an obstacle if you really WANT it. Just today as my kids were down for a nap my Husband and I went at it like ANIMALS!!!! Ravenous, wild ANIMALS! Don't let that be an excuse to not enjoy what was yours BEFORE they were even thought of..


Wow...I hope you guys weren't too "loud" :smthumbup:


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I am right there with ya!! Where the hell did it go? 

Sex is always on the top of mind all the time. Doesn't happen though


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Please stop blaming having kids for the lack of sex... that's not even an obstacle if you really WANT it.


Oh, I don't disagree. I have a three year old, and the only thing that has really changed is alas, the end of nooners.  But - that also is because of the change in H's job (sometimes doesn't get lunch, let alone a chance to leave), and it's distance from our current home (would take longer to drive home and drive back than his lunch hour.) Ah, well. 

So, no, I don't suggest blaming the kids for anything, just that some people might have been raised, cultured, and truly believe that kids = no sex. Or sex = only for kids. They internally have that disconnect in not wanting it, or feeling like they shouldn't want it - whether it's conscious or not.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Starstarfish said:


> Part of it might have to deal with your view on sex. The assumption (on TAM) in general seems to be that it's a mismatch in physical/mental desire. But - at least on the local scene, where conservative religion is big - sex is seen as primarily a venue for childbearing. Thus - when childbearing stops - so does sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I see what you are saying. I wrote once before about how I didn't see examples of the hot, romantic type marriages when I was growing up, but it was more companionship. I too remember comments about how the new would wear off after a while. 

I remember a guy having a house built once and the carpenters were in their 50s. The guy wanted mirrors installed in various places in the bedroom. One of the carpenters said, "he'll be taking them down in about 6 months." All others agreed.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said: "I do believe there are high sexual women, this site also supports that from posters such as yourself, but on average, men seek sex more often, and in larger variety, than the average woman. It's an unfortunate fact."

And also said: "That may not seem like a challenge in your eyes, but it is a challenge."

Ok, I just have to ask. 

How is it a challenge? How many women did you date to pick one that is highly sexual? How did you determine if they were or weren't highly sexual? As far as I can tell, many of the people here who are HD with LD's didn't date very many or in some cases ANY other people before getting married.

So how do you call that a challenge? Because an HD wife didn't just fall in their lap with no effort put into looking for one? Many of the people here openly admit they had little sexual experience themselves before marriage. What if they DID have it and deliberately looked for an HD spouse? Are you saying that would make no difference?

There are dating advice books out there just like there are marriage advice books. And most of the better dating advice books advise people to date 30 or more people before deciding on a spouse.

If someone did not date that many people or even half that many people before choosing a spouse, how can they say they "really tried" to find an HD spouse? 

How do you define "trying"?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Why do people quit putting cheese on a mousetrap that already has caught a mouse?


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

The simple answer is that it doesn't have to stop. This board, like sites for product reviews, mainly attracts those with complaints. Satisfied customers are doing something else.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> The simple answer is that it doesn't have to stop. This board, like sites for product reviews, mainly attracts those with complaints. Satisfied customers are doing something else.


You're right, those whom are happy are not on this site. They're busy enjoying each other's company. But there are some people on this site (helping those whom are unhappy).


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Elliott said:


> You're right, those whom are happy are not on this site. They're busy enjoying each other's company. But there are some people on this site (helping those whom are unhappy).



Hence the word "mainly."


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## JustPuzzled (Dec 12, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> Why do you think I'm kidding? You don't think there are men out there that stop the romance or "dating" once the vows are said, just like there are women that stop the sex once the ring is on her finger? (BTW, I do believe there are women that purposely do that.) Some men can be lazy, "I gave her a wedding, I'll get regular sex, now I don't need to put in anymore effort". Why is that hard to believe? Don't we see advice on here all the time telling men to keep dating their wives? I'm not talking about doing more chores, (I think that advice is silly), I'm talking about treating your wife like you're are still crazy in love with her.
> 
> Before marriage my husband and I still lived at home with our parents, so we had be creative when and where we had sex. When we got married, lots of noisy sex in every room of our house was on my mind. After the first year of marriage his choices to spend his time elsewhere, (the gym for 2-3 hours then computer games for 2-3 hours, golf on the weekends), really made me feel disconnected. Romance, flirting, making out and dates all stopped. I would try to engage him but he wanted to do what he wanted to do.
> 
> ...


It just seemed like a gross generalization. It certainly does not describe me, and I do not think I am anything special.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

Some people stop making the extra effort because they are lazy and/or take the OP for granted. If you add to that children, ex wife, porn and low t, you are in deep trouble. I know I was.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Elliott said:


> I envy you...
> 
> And
> 
> ...


Sorry if we derailed your thread in anyway, just trying to help the conversation move forward. Plus, SB is very interesting to speak to given she has a pretty different mindset from most women, even most on this forum. I always appreciate her insight.



soccermom2three said:


> Why do you think I'm kidding? You don't think there are men out there that stop the romance or "dating" once the vows are said, just like there are women that stop the sex once the ring is on her finger? (BTW, I do believe there are women that purposely do that.) Some men can be lazy, "I gave her a wedding, I'll get regular sex, now I don't need to put in anymore effort". Why is that hard to believe? Don't we see advice on here all the time telling men to keep dating their wives? I'm not talking about doing more chores, (I think that advice is silly), I'm talking about treating your wife like you're are still crazy in love with her.
> 
> Before marriage my husband and I still lived at home with our parents, so we had be creative when and where we had sex. When we got married, lots of noisy sex in every room of our house was on my mind. After the first year of marriage his choices to spend his time elsewhere, (the gym for 2-3 hours then computer games for 2-3 hours, golf on the weekends), really made me feel disconnected. Romance, flirting, making out and dates all stopped. I would try to engage him but he wanted to do what he wanted to do.
> 
> ...


I love this post. It is 100% true that things can go both ways. It's why I have a motto I try to live by that says "if you were willing to do it in the beginning, you should be willing to do it in the end."

Think about it. If you were, for example, willing to bring your girlfriend flowers every week and put a lot of thought into each date, why wouldn't you do the same years later when she's now your wife and mother of your children? If you were willing to put that much effort into things when she was just a girl that you thought was pretty or funny or whatever it was that attracted you to her, why wouldn't you put that effort in to the same women who is now your wife, someone whom you love, someone who is supposed to be essentially the most important piece of your life (right up there with your kids)?

Men do take their wives/partners for granted some time. For those men, I don't see any reason they should complain when the sex drops off. It's why I ask my fiancee regularly (every few months or so) if I'm still holding up my end of the bargain. I'm not going to be the type of guy who is like a used car salesman, pitching a good game just to get a sale.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> kingsfan said: "I do believe there are high sexual women, this site also supports that from posters such as yourself, but on average, men seek sex more often, and in larger variety, than the average woman. It's an unfortunate fact."
> 
> And also said: "That may not seem like a challenge in your eyes, but it is a challenge."
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comments Faithful Wife. I always enjoy discussing things with you. Your passion for the topic of marital sex is very clear in your writing.

My main basis for my point about it being a challenge is that often, a person's true sexual appetite isn't displayed until months, and often years into a relationship. Most of us go through a lust stage early in the relationship when sexual activity first begins. That's normal.

To give an example, I'll use my relationship to my ex-wife. When we first started dating, sex began about a month into the relationship. When it did start though, we went at it hard. Sex everyday for I'd guess about 6-9 months, often multiple times per day. I remember taking us having to take a break because we were to sore (chaffed) to keep going. One time she got a bladder infection and we had to take a week off sex. We were climbing the walls and she couldn't keep her hands off me. 

I thought I was in seventh heaven. I figured that if we had any problems, sex wouldn't be it.

A pregnancy and a marriage later, sex dropped way off. Typically we'd have sex two or three times in the week after her period and then that'd be it for the rest of the month. Eventually it just dwindled to almost nothing and even talking to her about sex was like walking into a minefield.

We dated for 2.5 years before we got married and looking back at it, while I shouldn't have gotten married for several reasons, sex wasn't a big one. There were a few concerns, but nothing even now I'd have red flagged as a huge concern. And that's 2.5 years in.

There are things that people can't just take a wait and see attitude about in regards to how it will impact the sex life in a relationship. You can't just wait and see how having a kid will impact your partners sex drive. Once you have a kid it makes things far more complicated. Can you get a divorce/separate? For sure you can, but who wants to go that route? 

No matter how you slice it, it is a challenge. You are a unique woman Faithful, you have a sex drive that would rival any man. But there's a reason why more men than women are on this site, complaining of issues. Finding a woman with a high(er) sex drive isn't as easy as finding a man with one.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Elliott said:


> ScarletBegonias and kingsfan are having such a wonderful public conversation, I feel like this was there post and not mine.
> Do I get some credit for breaking the ice


You posted.We responded. Then we had dialogue that included all other posters here and is completely relevant to your original post. If you have a one post per user limit,please,put that in your thread intro so we all know the rules.
I won't apologize for a derailment like Kingsfan so kindly did bc I don't see where it was a derailment.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Elliott said:


> It's sad to me how Single people have more sex than us married people.


I had way more sex when I was married than I do as a single.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> You posted.We responded. Then we had dialogue that included all other posters here and is completely relevant to your original post. If you have a one post per user limit,please,put that in your thread intro so we all know the rules.
> I won't apologize for a derailment like Kingsfan so kindly did bc I don't see where it was a derailment.


No the conversations you two had were cool. I didn't mind at all. No derailments happened, the train stayed on the tracks. I just felt left out of a good conversation.

I have sad childish moments like that we I don't have my Be&Jerry's Oatmeal Cookie dough Ice Cream (just looking at it makes me drool).


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> You posted.We responded. Then we had dialogue that included all other posters here and is completely relevant to your original post. If you have a one post per user limit,please,put that in your thread intro so we all know the rules.
> I won't apologize for a derailment like Kingsfan so kindly did bc I don't see where it was a derailment.


Yeah, I went a little more polite about it. Well said SB.



Elliott said:


> No the conversations you two had were cool. I didn't mind at all. No derailments happened, the train stayed on the tracks. I just felt left out of a good conversation.


Then join in.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> My main basis for my point about it being a challenge is that *often, a person's true sexual appetite isn't displayed until months, and often years into a relationship.* Most of us go through a lust stage early in the relationship when sexual activity first begins. That's normal.


Kingsfan, in light of your post, and your experience with your ex-wife in terms of sex dropping off, I have to ask then why are you still planning on marrying your fiancee when you already know she's not into sex based on your post below.



kingsfan said:


> The orgasm one is a massive piss off to me (pardon my French).
> 
> I can 100% agree that it is a legit reason, however *my fiancee doesn't enjoy reciving (or giving for that matter ) oral sex, and vaginal sex is something she usually doesn't want last more than 5-10 minutes,* so orgasms are almost impossible for me to give * (she doesn't like me touching her down there very often either, so manual stimulation is out)* yet she has said she would likely be more into sex if she could orgasm more often.


So no oral sex, you can't touch her vagina, and PIV sex for 5-10 minutes only. There's no bait and switch here, no gradual dropping off due to age and life related challenges...you straight up already know that she doesn't really like sex and isn't into anything other than 5-10 minutes of PIV (which is a sign she doesn't like PIV sex either, and it isn't likely to get her to orgasm, so the likelihood of her wanting to continue even having any sex over 10, 20, 30 years...seems doubtful).

Why are you planning to marry her when this is the kind of sex life you already have? :scratchhead:

Are you hoping she will change?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said: *"My main basis for my point about it being a challenge is that often, a person's true sexual appetite isn't displayed until months, and often years into a relationship. Most of us go through a lust stage early in the relationship when sexual activity first begins. That's normal."*

But you didn't even take into account my other question. Did you (any "you") date 30 people at least before deciding on one to marry? If you DO do this, or even half that many, you will have been exposed to so many more flavors of sexual proclivity in different people and different circumstances.

As I said, there is dating advice just like there is marriage advice. There is a reason why dating a lot of people before marriage will prepare you to know better who you might be suitable with. If someone is just going to go with the flow and marry one of the first few people they date seriously, they will never get to expand their own understanding of differing sex drives.

I don't mean you have to have sex with that many people, either. The dating and courting and some sexual contact is what people need to do to exercise their "picker". Married people sometimes want to ignore this good dating advice when they are looking back at their sitch...but I'm bringing it up because it is relevant. If you don't date enough people, you simply won't have enough knowledge to make an informed decision.


kingsfan said: *"We dated for 2.5 years before we got married and looking back at it, while I shouldn't have gotten married for several reasons, sex wasn't a big one. There were a few concerns, but nothing even now I'd have red flagged as a huge concern. And that's 2.5 years in."*

I understand this, and yes it is true. HOWEVER...you didn't answer me. How many women did you date? It is relevant. How many women did you date before your fiance?


kingsfan said: *"You are a unique woman Faithful, you have a sex drive that would rival any man. But there's a reason why more men than women are on this site, complaining of issues. Finding a woman with a high(er) sex drive isn't as easy as finding a man with one."*

I may be unique, but not because of my sex drive.

Do you really think this place is represenative of the real world? It isn't. Go find message boards where mostly women post and not men...that is where you will find the _thousands of women_ like me (not an exaggeration) who have high sex drives and many of them have LD husbands. They will complain there, not here. Why? Because when they complain here or at other similar message boards, the answer is always "he is gay". Women who are HD with LD husbands get tired of this being the only thing offered.

I don't read Cosmo, it is a bunch of crap. HOWEVER...Have you glanced through one lately or ever? Do you really think my high sex drive is all that uncommon when EVERY page of Cosmo is about sex, sex, sex...do this in bed....share your fantasies...watch porn together....toys...blah blah blah. Cosmo IS actualy a good reflection of stuff that many women do read...even women who think Cosmo is crap will flip through the pages to find out how to have more O's. 

If you look around the web a bit, you will find hundreds of blogs and websites by women who are writing hardcore erotica, and then the thousands of women who are reading them. Sure, some of those women just read but don't have exciting sex lives....but MOST of those women WISH they did have exciting sex lives.

I have read so many different message boards over the last 10 years....you have to read a variety of things to get a fuller picture of how things are.

Plus I talk directly to people I know (and have done so for decades) about their sex lives. I personally know so many HD women, many who are much higher D than myself. I could write erotica just recounting some of the true stories I've heard from friends personally! But nah. There's plenty out there to read. If you want to look.

Or you can conclude that this place holds all the answers and data you need.

If you do that, you will be stuck in a corner thinking "oh look at all the poor men who want sex and all the women who don't want sex".


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Elliott said:


> I know it's been asked a million times, but really think about it.
> 
> Why does sex have to stop when you're married? When I was dating my wife, I couldn't keep my hands off of her. We had sex at least 3 times a day every day. Sometimes, we would purposely have quickies during our lunch break.
> 
> ...


In my case, the rabbit stage lasted 12 years, so the sudden post wedding halt wasn't the case with us..........

She was a single mom, and got pregnant immediately, with no slowing down of sex...

I got a job working 2nd shift, so I was home mornings when the kids were at school.....And we really tore it up....

I really think the sex becomes routine, gradually slows in frequency, till it reaches a point where the wife is perfectly content with no sex at all.....When a person is content, it is almost impossible to get them off square 1......

I was one of the lucky one, I got LOTS of sex, more than probably 90% of married men, and it still hurts just as bad now......

the woodchuck


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## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> In my case, the rabbit stage lasted 12 years, so the sudden post wedding halt wasn't the case with us..........
> 
> She was a single mom, and got pregnant immediately, with no slowing down of sex...
> 
> ...


I remember the days, in most environments I was in, when I looked around, it was pretty apparent that I must be getting either the most or close to the top of the sex rate. There were some deprived looking men in those environments.

I still remember those days, thought they were doing something wrong.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

norajane said:


> Kingsfan, in light of your post, and your experience with your ex-wife in terms of sex dropping off, I have to ask then why are you still planning on marrying your fiancee when you already know she's not into sex based on your post below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, I am not hoping she will change. I have come to grip with our sex life (though yes, I will grip about it to a degree), but the benefits for me at this point outweigh the issues with our sex life.

I guess I do hope she will change to a degree, but I don't expect it by any stretch.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> kingsfan said: *"My main basis for my point about it being a challenge is that often, a person's true sexual appetite isn't displayed until months, and often years into a relationship. Most of us go through a lust stage early in the relationship when sexual activity first begins. That's normal."*
> 
> But you didn't even take into account my other question. Did you (any "you") date 30 people at least before deciding on one to marry? If you DO do this, or even half that many, you will have been exposed to so many more flavors of sexual proclivity in different people and different circumstances.


Did I date 30 people? No, I didn't. I don't recall how many people I dated off the top of my head, but it wasn't 30. Where did that number come from?

That said, as I pointed out in my reference to my ex-wife, I could have dated 30 people, or 300 people, and dated them all for two-plus years each and if they were all like her, I would never have noticed anything that would have got my red flags up over sex being an issue.



Faithful Wife said:


> As I said, there is dating advice just like there is marriage advice. There is a reason why dating a lot of people before marriage will prepare you to know better who you might be suitable with. If someone is just going to go with the flow and marry one of the first few people they date seriously, they will never get to expand their own understanding of differing sex drives.
> 
> I don't mean you have to have sex with that many people, either. The dating and courting and some sexual contact is what people need to do to exercise their "picker". Married people sometimes want to ignore this good dating advice when they are looking back at their sitch...but I'm bringing it up because it is relevant. If you don't date enough people, you simply won't have enough knowledge to make an informed decision.


I agree, however I think if we are talking about non-sexual situations moreso, then that would apply to the dynamics of the relationship outside of the bedroom far more than in it, and that's outside the context of what we are talking about.



Faithful Wife said:


> kingsfan said: *"We dated for 2.5 years before we got married and looking back at it, while I shouldn't have gotten married for several reasons, sex wasn't a big one. There were a few concerns, but nothing even now I'd have red flagged as a huge concern. And that's 2.5 years in."*
> 
> I understand this, and yes it is true. HOWEVER...you didn't answer me. How many women did you date? It is relevant. How many women did you date before your fiance?


I dated only two women between my ex and my fiancee. Before my ex-wife, I don't recall. Several anyways.




Faithful Wife said:


> kingsfan said: *"You are a unique woman Faithful, you have a sex drive that would rival any man. But there's a reason why more men than women are on this site, complaining of issues. Finding a woman with a high(er) sex drive isn't as easy as finding a man with one."*
> 
> I may be unique, but not because of my sex drive.
> 
> Do you really think this place is represenative of the real world? It isn't. Go find message boards where mostly women post and not men...that is where you will find the _thousands of women_ like me (not an exaggeration) who have high sex drives and many of them have LD husbands. They will complain there, not here. Why? Because when they complain here or at other similar message boards, the answer is always "he is gay". Women who are HD with LD husbands get tired of this being the only thing offered.


You are unique because of your sex dirve since that's what this entire conversation is about. If we were discussing bocce ball and you had a 84-0 competitive record, you'd be unique for that too.

Naturally I'm not simple minded enough to believe this forum (or most other forums) are representative of the real world. I do beleive though that the number of men versus women coming here seeking advice is representative. As another poster said, those who have success in their sex lives aren't here (mostly). Only those who have problems are here typically. And if you pay attention to who is posting, it is mostly men (I presume, based on what they post). Granted, there are a number of women, but there appears to be a higher volume of men. 



Faithful Wife said:


> I don't read Cosmo, it is a bunch of crap. HOWEVER...Have you glanced through one lately or ever? Do you really think my high sex drive is all that uncommon when EVERY page of Cosmo is about sex, sex, sex...do this in bed....share your fantasies...watch porn together....toys...blah blah blah. Cosmo IS actualy a good reflection of stuff that many women do read...even women who think Cosmo is crap will flip through the pages to find out how to have more O's.
> 
> If you look around the web a bit, you will find hundreds of blogs and websites by women who are writing hardcore erotica, and then the thousands of women who are reading them. Sure, some of those women just read but don't have exciting sex lives....but MOST of those women WISH they did have exciting sex lives.
> 
> I have read so many different message boards over the last 10 years....you have to read a variety of things to get a fuller picture of how things are.


No, I don't read Cosmo. I'll leave it to you to discuss what is in there, but to say it is a fair reflection of what women do read is fine. That doesn't translate into reality. Fifty Shades for example had numerous women in an uproar, but how many of them actual sought to have their boyfriends/husbands treat they like Grey (I think that was his name) treated the main character? 

When it comes to porn, once again more men than women watch/use porn. I'll admit to watching porn myself on occasion and I know several friends who are massive consumers of it. Neither I, nor my friends, want to partake in many of the actions displayed in much of the pron we've watched. 

Read/watching isn't the same as living it out. It's one thing to read about getting 14 orgasms in one day, it's another to actually pursue it.



Faithful Wife said:


> Plus I talk directly to people I know (and have done so for decades) about their sex lives. I personally know so many HD women, many who are much higher D than myself. I could write erotica just recounting some of the true stories I've heard from friends personally! But nah. There's plenty out there to read. If you want to look.


Agreed.



Faithful Wife said:


> Or you can conclude that this place holds all the answers and data you need.


Never did.



Faithful Wife said:


> If you do that, you will be stuck in a corner thinking "oh look at all the poor men who want sex and all the women who don't want sex".


In the future, perhaps don't assume what I'm thinking.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

kingsfan said: *"Fifty Shades for example had numerous women in an uproar, but how many of them actual sought to have their boyfriends/husbands treat they like Grey (I think that was his name) treated the main character?"*


Is this actually a serious question?

You don't think women actually want to play out things they read in that book?

You really need to get around a bit more. Yes, they DO. All the time. There are forums for women to talk about this exact thing.

I have so far had about 500 people reading my blog, and of them, many many women have reached out to me to talk more about how to get more and better and kinkier and riskier sex AND many of them want to know how to get their husbands on board. (Unfortunately, the answer is usually, you cannot change someone's natural proclivity level).

I'll just leave it at that. I do enjoy discussing things with you as well, but you are not going to change your thinking at all and neither am I. My mind is staying on what I know to be true based on experience and study, and so is yours. You most likely don't have as much experience or study as I do...but...again, I'll leave it at that.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PS...the dating 30 people thing came from various dating advice books, as I stated previously.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

JustPuzzled said:


> Am I missing something? It doesn't have to stop. It has not for me and my wife (together 25+ years, 2 kids).
> 
> The frequency varied, but it never stopped. Now that the kids are older and out of the house more we are at it all over the house as often as possible.
> 
> Is this unusual?


I could have said the same thing for the first 40 years.....By last November, (year 46) I thought it might be over for good....Now the wife has health problems, but is sometimes willing to take care if my needs...

She was always orgasmic up till almost 8 months ago......

I will admit I have always looked with dread at the end of my sex life I assumed my drive would eventually decrease, till I was no longer interested....

I am 66, and so far this has not happened....I am still perfectly capable of sex several times a day, given the opportunity....Earlier this week, I had sex with my wife, and orgasmed twice in 15 minutes.....

good luck
the woodchuck


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

By the way kingsfan....here's a thread right here where a husband is saying his wife is reading the 50 shades books and asking him for so much complicated sex that he wishes she would slow down for him.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/94945-i-think-my-wife-addicted-erotic-books.html


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## JustPuzzled (Dec 12, 2012)

Woodchuck said:


> I could have said the same thing for the first 40 years.....By last November, (year 46) I thought it might be over for good....Now the wife has health problems, but is sometimes willing to take care if my needs...
> 
> She was always orgasmic up till almost 8 months ago......
> 
> ...


I must say that I do have a feeling of trepidation as menopause approaches.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Sex _doesn't_ "have" to stop after marriage. People choose for it to stop by either being the one to withhold, or being the one to put up and accept the lack of sex. Which is something I would never tolerate. 

Sex isn't everyday for my husband and I, like it was our first year. But we still have a satisfying and fulfilling sex life, and we're learning how to manage sexual desires with a busy schedule. While I admire the sacrifice of those willing to live in sexually unfulfilling relationships, I, personally, see it as the wrong choice. 

I don't have enough time to post more but I have to say...dating _30_ people? Whoever wrote that dating book is CRAZY.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

For kingsfan...maybe I'm not so unique.

Turns Out Women Have Really, Really Strong Sex Drives: Can Men Handle It? - Hugo Schwyzer - The Atlantic


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> For kingsfan...maybe I'm not so unique.
> 
> Turns Out Women Have Really, Really Strong Sex Drives: Can Men Handle It? - Hugo Schwyzer - The Atlantic


Seriously stop... we ALL know that article is absolutely wrong. Just a fluff piece.

OPEN YOUR EYES TO REALITY AND BIOLOGY

Its is IMPOSSIBLE for the average women to have anywhere close to the same sex drive average man...physically impossible. Start with Testosterone, end with messiness, less orgasms and fear of pregnancy or being sltty and being physically violated internally.

Just like its impossible for an average MAN to have the same desire to communicate deeply with male friends like average woman does with female friends. Again its impossible from a physical/mental makeup standpoint.

Of course there are some exceptions you are one.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It isn't an article it is a new book with a long study that was done. Did you read it?

No, you apparently are still assuming your wife is the only "type" of woman there is.

SERIOUSLY STOP.....YOU ARE MISTAKEN AND HAVE NO CLUE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Seriously.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> It isn't an article it is a new book with a long study that was done. Did you read it?
> 
> No, you apparently are still assuming your wife is the only "type" of woman there is.
> 
> ...


NO because we all know their "findings" are dead wrong
open your eyes.

DO you discount entirely biology since the beginning of time?

Women may have a strong drive DEEP DOWN to find a viable mate to have kids... Men have a strong desire for mating in lieu of kids. Again why after kids sex dwindles not usually the guys idea.

the Black Widow kills her mate...humans have laws against that so instead its slow torture.

Difference is humans (wives) can think and overcome the biological component due to childhood teachings...that is more a thought process of acceptability rather than drive.


Heres a great survey.

Would you like more sex with your mate?

Men: 90-99+% Yes
Women: ???

That's the inherent male sex drive talking.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

You clearly believe you are addressing just "some woman who is just like your wife". You also clearly haven't experienced a truly sexual woman so you have no idea what anyone else is talking about.

I am sure it is easier for you to believe that women "just aren't that sexual" than to accept that your wife just doesn't want to have sex with you and that isn't going to change. 

If you ever get into an actual sexual relationship again, you'll probably see things differently.

But until then...it is clear you will stay stuck right where you are.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> the Black Widow kills her mate...humans have laws against that so instead its slow torture.


Please tell me this is sarcasm or some sort of sick joke at the expense of all females


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

It isn't sarcasm...he really believes that stuff. He says it over and over.

I can only be sad for him that his sex life is so frustrating that he is going off the rails...but he can't even see past his own life to realize, not everyone is in the same sitch as him.


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

And this forum is made up of struggling average men and some women seeking how to deal with that...which again supports my view. Most of the "struggles" are related to sex.

The average woman is NOT HERE seeking answers. They don't NEED answers for something they don't feel strongly about.

Plenty of average men her trying to figure out WTH happened. We live here and NEED answers.

Why..because that is what average men do..try to figure out issues. Figure out WTH.

Goes back to the physical/mental thought differrences in the sexes..we are not the same.

Of course this is not PC its reality in this case.
If we embrace that FACT then we have common ground to discuss realizing the makeup of the audience here on TAM. Its weighted.

I speak the truth that needs to be said. It that offends people so be it. I am entitled to point out the differences in each gender and would have plenty of research to back up my stance.


----------



## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I wouldn't dare question your stance on this bc I get that my drive is the exception and not the rule,yet.
But your constant attack on women in general is offensive and has no place somewhere that is designed to help not condemn.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

According to you T2 there is NO hope, because wives just plain don't want to have sex with their husbands, end of story. So what is there to discuss?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I wouldn't dare question your stance on this bc I get that my drive is the exception and not the rule,yet.
> But your constant attack on women in general is offensive and has no place somewhere that is designed to help not condemn.


So pointing out differences is attacking?

When an article I don't agree with pops up?

If we embrace the differences we may find an answer and learn as a species how to solve this. Otherwise we are just spinning out wheels pretending all sexes are the same.

I love women and I think men stink it up sometimes... nothing wrong with being honest about the reality of the average man and the average woman and the value of sex from each genders average perspective.

it explains a lot.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> So pointing out differences is attacking?
> 
> When an article I don't agree with pops up?
> 
> If we embrace the differences we may find an answer. Otherwise we are just spinning out wheels pretending all sexes are the same.


Comparing human females to black widows while saying we're only allowed to slowly torture is attacking and offensive.

You don't have to agree with anything anyone here says but you don't have to attack an entire gender by comparing them to a dangerous arachnid either.

Your stance has never been about embracing differences.Every post is about cutting women down and making them the enemy of penis and men in general.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

So again....and this is an honest question T2...what is there to discuss if the answer, according to you, is that women just don't want to have sex with their husbands? If that's a fact, then why would any amount of discussion change that fact?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> According to you T2 there is NO hope, because wives just plain don't want to have sex with their husbands, end of story. So what is there to discuss?


I said if you read . our species have brains to overcome that biological tendency.

So if we work the thoughts angle and accept the biological component we have a winner.


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Comparing human females to black widows while saying we're only allowed to slowly torture is attacking and offensive.
> 
> You don't have to agree with anything anyone here says but you don't have to attack an entire gender by comparing them to a dangerous arachnid either.
> 
> Your stance has never been about embracing differences.Every post is about cutting women down and making them the enemy of penis and men in general.



I think the average human female has too much power over sex frequency in the average marriage. If you disagree let me hear it.

power corrrupts

Perhaps marriage itself is wrong and that's the real problem. Monogomy is a human and penguin constuct perhaps the rest of the planet has it right.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I think the average human female has too much power over sex frequency in the average marriage. If you disagree let me hear it.
> 
> power corrrupts
> 
> Perhaps marriage itself is wrong and that's the real problem. Monogomy is a human and penguin constuct perhaps the rest of the planet has it right.


You've proven that it doesn't matter if high drive very sexual females disagree with you.Like I said,we're the exception still and not yet the rule so our thoughts on it will always be tossed to the side.

Personally I think my man has the power over sex.The way he treats me is directly linked to how high my drive is and how much I crave physical closeness and sex with him. He holds the keys to this lock.


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> You've proven that it doesn't matter if high drive very sexual females disagree with you.Like I said,we're the exception still and not yet the rule so our thoughts on it will always be tossed to the side.
> 
> Personally I think my man has the power over sex.The way he treats me is directly linked to how high my drive is and how much I crave physical closeness and sex with him. He holds the keys to this lock.


Congratulations you understand the affection-sex link in sexless marriage that link is severed. I suspect because in most cases biology trumps reasonable thoughts or reciprocity 

It works for you because you understand, cant say that for the average sexless marriage. Which is what the OP post is asking about.

Which comes first affection or sex...what happen when affection does not produce sex? What happens to affection when sex is taken out of the equation?

Chicken-egg, Mars-Venus


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

T2 said: "So if we work the thoughts angle and accept the biological component we have a winner."

So according to you, BIOLOGY causes women to not want sex with their husbands.

But LOGIC should then be used for them to force themselves to "just do it", even though biologically it discusts them.

I'm getting a pretty clear picture of the issues in your marriage right now...

I'm done discussing it with you, as it is just really sad and pathetic.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Congratulations you understand the affection-sex link
> 
> It works for you because you understand, cant say that for the average sexless marriage.


it's more than affection.So much more.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Mr. Trying2, 

I understand your way of thinking, and indeed in this forum alone we could find descriptions of "black widow arachnid" as you mentioned.

But, I think generalizations are often incorrect.

The existence of "black widow arachnid" type of woman does not negates the existence of women who behaves at exact opposite of a "black widow arachnid". I am certain they do exist, as I have encountered plenty of women who actually love their husbands a lot, and thank Allah everytime their husbands made love to them.

ray: I hope one day you, Mr. Trying2FigureItOut, will find a person who will love you truly, and prove you wrong about women in general.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> Mr. Trying2,
> 
> I understand your way of thinking, and indeed in this forum alone we could find descriptions of "black widow arachnid" as you mentioned.
> 
> ...


I did over 20 years ago and I learned a lot in the process of living in a sexless marriage... true my wife is not representative of all women but I have done a lot of reading and research that supports my view and explains this very forum. Have to start with the facts.

Finding another woman just for a while covers up the inherent imbalance when it comes to sex drive (after kids) and power over dictating frequency.
Divorce rates, infidelity rates support my view... oh you may get "luck" but then there is always something else.

I'll take my chances of a total turn around with the woman I have a commitment to rather than doing what some people do.... each their own. Marriage is about compromise and commitment.

Life is sweeter when you earn something...and learn something.

Its not generalizing when we have different physical and mental thought processes.

You would be crazy to think gender was not a factor and that affects all humanity. Its not generalizing its reality of the differences. Women are equal..and made up entirely differently.

Makes life..life.


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## jay1365 (May 22, 2013)

FemBot said:


> I do not understand women like this! It's a bit insane (sorry!) to not want to be touched in the most arousing area of your body.
> 
> The mind. It boggles.


I do. It's classic passive aggressive behaviour, as well as the wife from the above post who told her hubby she wanted serious makeup sex then said no when asked to leave work a bit early by hubby. She just told him work is more important to her than her husband or their intimate relationship.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

jay1365 said:


> I do. It's classic passive aggressive behaviour, as well as the wife from the above post who told her hubby she wanted serious makeup sex then said no when asked to leave work a bit early by hubby. She just told him work is more important to her than her husband or their intimate relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some people don't have the luxury of leaving work early at a moment's notice.

It's not passive aggressive if she truly doesn't want to be touched.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> NO because we all know their "findings" are dead wrong
> open your eyes.


That's what people said about Copernicus when he had this idea that the Earth was NOT at the center of the solar system, much less the universe.



> Seriously stop... we ALL know that article is absolutely wrong. Just a fluff piece.


How do we know that? People's views often are sadly warped and their minds closed by their own experiences or cultural and religious bias.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...exual-desire-evolutionary-biology-perspective

What Do Women Want?: Adventures in the Science of Female Desire: Daniel Bergner: 9780061906084: Amazon.com: Books

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/b...en-want-by-daniel-bergner.html?pagewanted=all


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

The "What Do Women Want" book you linked above is the book that was described in the link I posted on the last page. 

Horny women, unite!


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

I don't for a minute believe that there aren't plenty of HD women out there and if a man is determined and reasonably attractive, he can probably find one.

At the same time, I have a hard time with the 50/50 notion. There are enough scholarly articles  on comparative sex drive extant in the literature to make a stack several feet high.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What do you mean the 50/50 notion?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> What do you mean the 50/50 notion?


Concluding Remarks
*All the evidence we have reviewed points toward the
conclusion that men desire sex more than women.*

Women: less
Men: more

NOT 50/50

As if that is news.

We are talking the average person of each sex. Not the exceptions.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> What do you mean the 50/50 notion?


That when viewed as *entire* demographic groups, sex drive between the genders is roughly equal and there is no measurable disparity when the relevant behavioral indicators are observed.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I think the average woman and the average man both have average sex drives and average (doesn't mean "bad", can actually mean very "good") sex lives. Where is there anything that disputes this?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Trying....I'm done with you. If you continue to address me, it will not be read. You are now on ignore after this post. Good luck with your marriage, I do hope it works out somehow. But your views are simply too whacko for me and I'm positive you have no respect for anything I am saying so...buh bye.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I think the average woman and the average man both have average sex drives and average (doesn't mean "bad", can actually mean very "good") sex lives. Where is there anything that disputes this?


I don't think that's in dispute. What seems to be in question is what "average" is and if it's the same between men and women.

You've said several times that many men think they're HD when they're not. You've explained this (In other threads) to mean that if a man is truly HD, he'll either find a way to fix the relationship or he'll end it. Either way, he'll do something.

Although we probably both agree that there are other factors in a marriage that might keep a couple together even if one of them unfulfilled and unhappy sexually, I think your explanation is basically sound. A person can say anything they want, but if their behavior doesn't match up to their words, than something is wrong.

That is _exactly_ the methodology that's used to compare sex drive between the genders. How much time and money is spent in the pursuit of sex? Who is more willing to pay money for sex? Who is more willing to receive money in exchange for sex? How much risk is one willing to take for sex? Who is more likely to keep a religious vow of celibacy? How much of one's inner thoughts involve sex? How important is sex to one's perception of personal happiness? How high does sex figure as an emotional need? 

Maybe this approach is flawed, but if there's a fairer way to answer the question, I'm not sure if anybody has thought of it yet.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

"*What seems to be in question is what "average" is and if it's the same between men and women."*


If we're talking about married couples, and the average reported amount of sex is 1 - 2 times per week based on lots of studies....then where is there any difference in "average" between men and women? I am assuming the 1 - 2 times per week is happening between the man and the woman, so how would there be a difference?

I strongly reject the idea that "most women are LD" that is thrown around here a lot.

I also strongly reject the idea that "no straight man is LD" that is also thrown around here a lot.

There are LD's and HD's of both genders. There are also many levels *BETWEEN* LD and HD (I made a whole scale about this for my blog just to discuss this issue). Most people are going to land on average and most people enjoy sex so......that is why it is strange to project that "most married women are LD".

.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I strongly reject the idea that "most women are LD" that is thrown around here a lot.
> 
> I also strongly reject the idea that "no straight man is LD" that is also thrown around here a lot.


I agree with you on that. It's unfair and untrue.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Trying....I'm done with you. If you continue to address me, it will not be read. You are now on ignore after this post. Good luck with your marriage, I do hope it works out somehow. But your views are simply too whacko for me and I'm positive you have no respect for anything I am saying so...buh bye.


Free country. Thanks for the good luck. likewise.

I think you are off-base yes and viewing most women through your own views on sex.

I don't think all/most women are "LD" when compared to other women.

When you compare an average woman's drive to a average man's drive that is where "LD" comes from and it isn't a fair assessment due to the physical differences like testosterone.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Seriously stop... we ALL know that article is absolutely wrong. Just a fluff piece.
> 
> OPEN YOUR EYES TO REALITY AND BIOLOGY
> 
> ...


Just because you disagree with the article doesn't mean it's not true. Moreover, your experience with _*one woman*_ doesn't qualify you to suddenly be an expert about every individual woman's sexuality.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> NO because we all know their "findings" are dead wrong
> open your eyes.


Show proof that their findings are wrong, then. If "we all know" that the book is wrong, then there should be enough proof for you to convince me. 



> DO you discount entirely biology since the beginning of time?


Of course not. It's biologically true that women can, in general, experience more than one orgasm each time they have sex. It's also biologically true that women, generally, can achieve orgasms through at least two different kinds of stimulation - clitoral and vaginal. It's also biologically true that women's bodies(namely the ovaries) produce a hormone called estrogen which provides more than one service within the sexual organs, the reproductive system, and the brain. Estrogen, _not_ testosterone, revs a woman's sexual drive. 

Biologically speaking then, no, I don't discount biology.



> Women may have a strong drive DEEP DOWN to find a viable mate to have kids... Men have a strong desire for mating in lieu of kids. Again why after kids sex dwindles not usually the guys idea.


It doesn't always dwindle, firstly. There are plenty of marriages where the husband wife have sex after marriage _and_ after kids. My parents did at least twice a week that I know of for sure, and very likely more. Secondly, you assume that women only desire sex to have kids. _WRONG_. 



> the Black Widow kills her mate...humans have laws against that so instead its slow torture.


You're actually comparing human women, who have feelings, emotions, desires, to a spider that doesn't? They're not even comparable. 



> Difference is humans (wives) can think and overcome the biological component due to childhood teachings...that is more a thought process of acceptability rather than drive.


Are you insinuating that women _want_ to murder their mates but don't because they were taught not to? Are you on crack?



> Heres a great survey.
> 
> Would you like more sex with your mate?
> 
> ...


Yes, I would love more sex with my mate.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> And this forum is made up of struggling average men and some women seeking how to deal with that...which again supports my view. Most of the "struggles" are related to sex.


Do you honestly think this forum is an accurate representation of the "average" couple? Out of the millions of marriages that there are in this country? How many marriages do you think are represented on this forum? A few thousand? 



> The average woman is NOT HERE seeking answers. They don't NEED answers for something they don't feel strongly about.


You assume that the "average" woman doesn't desire sex. How many women have you had sex with that qualifies you to make these accusations? 

What about the many number of women who come here whose husband's aren't having sex with _them_? Do you think they are the only women who exist in that situation? 



> Plenty of average men her trying to figure out WTH happened. We live here and NEED answers.


Again, you assume that the average couple struggles with sex. Can you prove that this is the case?



> Why..because that is what average men do..try to figure out issues. Figure out WTH.


Sure. Cause you know all these "average men" and what's going in their marriages. 



> Goes back to the physical/mental thought differrences in the sexes..we are not the same.


We have differences, yes. But that doesn't mean that women are _biologically_ averse to sex, or that they want to murder their husbands, or that they only have sex to have kids, or that they are any less sexual than men. 



> Of course this is not PC its reality in this case.
> If we embrace that FACT then we have common ground to discuss realizing the makeup of the audience here on TAM. Its weighted.


Maybe it's _your_ reality...



> I speak the truth that needs to be said. It that offends people so be it. I am entitled to point out the differences in each gender and would have plenty of research to back up my stance.


Then show the research. Back up your stance, by all means. Proves us all wrong.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Just wait until *Trying2figureitout* finds out that all of the HD women on this site are really male neckbeards living in their moms basement, leaching internet from the neighbours...head just might explode... 

ETC: OP to Trying2figureitout


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Just wait until the OP finds out that all of the HD women on this site are really male neckbeards living in their moms basement, leaching internet from the neighbours...head just might explode...


Wow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Wow.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I meant Trying2figureitout instead of OP, and meant it tongue in cheek of course...changed my post to reflect that


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Do you honestly think this forum is an accurate representation of the "average" couple? Out of the millions of marriages that there are in this country? How many marriages do you think are represented on this forum? A few thousand?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Seriously... google it.
40% of women have lied about being on their period to avoid sex, exercise and justify mood swings | Mail Online

Try to find
40% of guys on some survey saying the same BS to avoid sexual intercourse with a woman.
You know that's IMPOSSIBLE to do.... so you simply discount the entire Internet an a two second search to keep your stance.


Seriously why argue fact? Never mind I know .


Its like saying the worlds flat with access to satellites.

Survey of married couples... Do you want *MORE SEX *form your spouse ?..

Average Husband: Yes, are you kidding me you have to ask? Hell yea.
Average Woman: No thanks we are good as is (answering for her spouse)

That is biology and drive. There is no argument.

Of course there are exceptions however rare. And I feel for all spouses female or male that have partners who do no meet their needs in regards to sex/intimacy. There we are all equal all getting abused. Many enlightened females are here and I applaud you for taking the time to better your relationships. But don't argue fact about the basics of gender differences and biological differences.

Who says spiders have no emotions? Link?

Also I'm certain when it comes to thoughts and anger more is directed at husbands than vice versa.
You can try arguing that but most guys just want things to run smooth and aren't into drama. Fix it and move on is what the average husband wants.

Again if we embrace the differences when it comes to drive and biology we have a valid point to start a discussion. Trying to discout those facts is just not wanting to seek the truth and feel better about your stance.

I never said women are adverse to sex... i said there is a difference in drives and most women compare favorably to other women but when compared to the male drive the difference is clear.

That is the starting point to help explain all these sex issues.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> ...Of course there are exceptions however rare. And I feel for all spouses female or male that have partners who do no meet their needs in regards to sex/intimacy. There we are all equal all getting abused. *Many enlightened females are here and I applaud you for taking the time to better your relationships*. But don't argue fact about the basics of gender differences and biological differences.
> 
> Who says spiders have no emotions?
> 
> ...


I'm sure some of it is a conscious choice to take care of their husbands needs, but I would imagine that most of the HD women here are just into sex and their husbands take care of their needs in a way that brings out the drive even more.

ETA: My STBW is a great example of how fulfilling needs can bring out a very sexual side of a woman. With previous partners, she was 2-3 times per week, some of it duty to take care of her partners needs. With me, I take care of her needs. We have sex over ten times per week, more initiated by her than by me.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Seriously... google it.
> 40% of women have lied about being on their period to avoid sex, exercise and justify mood swings | Mail Online
> 
> Try to find
> ...


There wasn't any information about _who_ conducted that survey so I have no way of knowing if it was true. Just saying "research shows that 40% of women lie to avoid sex" isn't enough. I need to know who conducted the survey to even know if the source is even reputable. For all I know, this is made up.



> Survey of married couples... do you want more SEX form your spouse..
> 
> Average Husband: Yes, are you kidding me you have to ask? Hell yea.
> Average Woman: No thanks we are good as is (answering for her spouse)
> ...


Prove it. Prove that it's biology.



> Of course there are exceptions however rare. And I feel for all spouses female or male that have partners who do no meet their needs in regards to sex/intimacy. There we are all equal all getting abused. Many enlightened females are here and I applaud you for taking the time to better your relationships. But don't argue fact about the basics of gender differences and biological differences.


I'm not arguing the basics of gender and biological differences. You're the one ignoring biology and failing to provide proof to these supposed facts. 



> Who says spiders have no emotions?


Oh please. You know what I meant. Don't play stupid just to try and distract me.



> Also I'm certain when it comes to thoughts and anger more is directed at husbands than vice versa.


This isn't even relevant to the discussion. 



> You can try arguing that but most guys just want things to run smooth and aren't into drama.


You act like you know "most guys" personally. Which you don't. I know plenty of men who intentionally make things more dramatic than they need to be, are drama queens like you wouldn't believe, lie habitually and never admit to it, and don't even know the meaning of the word apology. Some of them are in my husband's family, and they've acted this way for so long, they've isolated themselves from the rest of the family. 

My experiences with these men doesn't define the entire male population though. I certainly don't think that every man, or even most men, are like that simply because a handful of the ones I know happen to be. I don't even know a fraction of the men in this country, so I couldn't possibly make such a judgment, let alone declare it a "fact". 

I'm starting to think that you just like to argue.


----------



## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> I'm sure some of it is a conscious choice to take care of their husbands needs, but I would imagine that most of the HD women here are just into sex and their husbands take care of their needs in a way that brings out the drive even more.
> 
> ETA: My STBW is a great example of how fulfilling needs can bring out a very sexual side of a woman. With previous partners, she was 2-3 times per week, some of it duty to take care of her partners needs. With me, I take care of her needs. We have sex over ten times per week, more initiated by her than by me.


I agree with you 100%. My sex drive exists for me no matter what is going on, almost to a distracting level. 

When we are at our lowest in my marriage, I still desire sex. Period. Just sex with ANYONE. But when my husband and I are fulfilling each other, spending time, showing lots of affection, talking, HE is all I want. He fills my brain. He intoxicates me. Cheesy I know, but so true. I fantasize about him. I write about him. I dream about him.


----------



## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> There wasn't any information about _who_ conducted that survey so I have no way of knowing if it was true. Just saying "research shows that 40% of women lie to avoid sex" isn't enough. I need to know who conducted the survey to even know if the source is even reputable. For all I know, this is made up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm starting to think the same with you... 

How can you sit there and believe what you write?

Take the rose colored glasses off and look at the world and how it works. 
Seriously your argument is invalid if you are trying to convince me and the rest of TAM the sex drives are equal for the average man and woman.

I don't mind arguing but c'mon.

I believe totally in equality but don't try to convince me biology has no differences.

If they were equal sex drive where resentment has no effect we'd all be a-ok.

It basically boils down to how much compromise are you willing to take.


----------



## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I'm starting to think the same with you...
> 
> How can you sit there and believe what you write?


Because, biologically, it's _true_. Men and women _both_ have biological urges when it comes to sex. Those urges are not always the same, but that is based on the individual, _not_ an entire gender. 



> Take the rose colored glasses off and look at the world and how it works.


I don't think I'm the one with rose colored glasses.



> Seriously your argument is invalid if you are trying to convince me and the rest of TAM the sex drives are equal for the average man and woman.


I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. But when I see someone making such gross generalizations as you have, I speak up. 

Men, biologically, desire sex. Women, biologically, desire sex. How much they pursue sex(their sex drive) depends on the individual, and is not always a determination of biology. For some men and women, they are taught from a young age that sex isn't/shouldn't be important, and so while they may have the biological desire, they feel guilty when acting on it. Others were brought up in families where the parents made sure to teach them that sex _is_ important, and so they make sure to make it a priority. Others, despite what they were taught, come up with their own opinions regarding sex in marriage. 

My sexual drive is not the same as my husband's, but it is still high. I think that many women have the same sexual drive as men, and I think many men have the same sexual drive as women. I think some women have very little sexual drive, and I think some men have very little sexual drive. I think some women have very high sexual drives, and I think some men have very high sexual drives. 

It's based on the individual.



> I don't mind arguing but c'mon.
> 
> I believe totally in equality but don't try to convince me biology has no differences.


Where did I say biology has no differences? Of course there are differences! A man's sexual drive often comes from the levels of testosterone in his body, while a woman's often comes from estrogen. However there are cases when women, after going through menopause when estrogen levels decrease, experience a rise in libido. So even biology does not always explain a man or woman's sexual drive. 

If we're going to talk about facts, you might want to do some research yourself on how a woman's body works.



> If they were equal sex drive where resentment has no effect we'd all be a-ok.
> 
> It basically boils down to how much compromise are you willing to take.


Resentment is not dependent on equality in sexual drive. Resentment forms when one spouse refuses to acknowledge the needs of the other. My husband and I aren't equal in our drives, as he desires it more than I do. He doesn't resent my drive, nor do I resent his. Moreover we _are_ equal in our belief that sex is vital in marriage; I think I can count on one hand the number of times either one of us has refused the other. I didn't even refuse him when he was neglecting my needs and not making me a priority. I still desired sex with him. I still enjoyed sex with him. I still pursued sex with him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have had resentments in the past that did not stop me from wanting sex with my husband. He, on the other hand, will not have sex with me if we are fighting. Thankfully we don't fight like that anymore. But back when we were fighting, he wouldn't touch me sexually until we had worked out whatever the issue was. No make up sex either. It had to be done and fully behind us before he would be sexual with me again. He simply didn't want sex if there was still a problem between us. So in our case, I was the one who still wanted sex no matter what was happening between us emotionally, and he was the one who did not want sex unless we were emotionally "ok".

We are all different.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Because, biologically, it's _true_. Men and women _both_ have biological urges when it comes to sex. Those urges are not always the same, but that is based on the individual, _not_ an entire gender.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So by pursuing you must have instigated and that is not the average woman behavior. 

Another fact women are more prone to hormonal issues which make them feel uneasy with themselves thus lowering their thoughts on sex....

Men have no such hormonal issues such as menopause, peri-menopause etc which are all certainly factors in the overall lower female libido average if you take in the whole life cycle of each sex.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> So by pursuing you must have instigated and that is not the average woman behavior.


Proof?



> Another fact women are more prone to hormonal issues which make them feel uneasy with themselves thus lowering their thoughts on sex....


Proof?



> Men have no such hormonal issues such as menopause, peri-menopause etc which are all certainly factors in the overall lower female libido average if you take in the whole life cycle of each sex.


Men may not go through menopause, but they do experience hormonal issues as they age. 

You really don't know what you're talking about. I'm done trying to discuss things with you.


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## Elliott (Sep 13, 2011)

For those of you whom don't have children living with you at home. I have some questions:

1. Are their any hurdles to overcome when one of you wants spontaneous sex?

2. Since your child(ren) are no longer living with you, can you actually spend the day at home walking around naked and having sex all over the house?

3. With all that free time (meaning children arguing over nonsense), do you schedule your sex or just let it happen?

4. Now that you can go on dates and not worry about babysitters, how do you end some of your more romantic dates? With some sex or not?

I ask these questions because I honestly can't fathom how good it must be to have kids *OUT THE HOUSE*. I've got a looooooong time till I can experience it (I have a 8 year old and a 4 year old). It seems so foreign to me, borderline impossible to image. It's obvious I'm the HD one in the marriage, but I what is the balance between to much sex and not enough sex?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Proof?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know what I'm talking about.... you just see the futility in trying to argue with the obvious reality when it comes to relative sex drives.

Again this forum would not exist if the sex drives were equal as in all women want sex *at least* every day or two (no matter what is going on) for life and were not at all affected by things like holding in resentment until they emotionally separate at midlife. Also able to separate sex from everything else like the average male can. The average woman needs an emotional connection first no such prerequisite for the average male. sex is sex,. not something that needs a prerequisite or hoops to go through.

Deep down you all know I'm correct on this.

Its like trying to argue the avarage woman is physically stronger than the average man... we all know that is not REALITY.

Embrace the differences the genders and them we have a legitimate chance to have a valid discussion on what can be done to help those in sex issue marriages which is more prevalent than you know. There are plenty/majority/most of the marriages where the sex frequency is highly weighted to the female partner drive rather than the male partner drive.... it may 'work' but it is UNFAIR and based on the fact men do not want to be perceived as jerks and bend to the female wife needs rather than their own. In the end they sacrifice year after year hoping it doesn't get WORSE which inevitably in many cases it does. Hence his forum.

Note I am not saying the male drive is better/superior/or more correct than the female drive.... I am just pointing out it is pointless to argue they are the same and that is a major reason for sexual dissatisfaction in marriages.

There are exceptions but they are not the norm.... above scenario is for the average marriage.

Again ask spouses;

Men would your wife want more sex? No..

Women does your husband want more sex? Yes or I believe he's happy with our sex life he doesn't complain so he's good.


Not speaking of the exceptions i'm speaking of average everyday marriages. There is a disconnect.


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## ASummersDay (Mar 4, 2013)

It seems to me that sex dwindles in a marriage not because it is inevitable, but because of deeper issues that are not properly addressed. And the deeper issues aren't even necessarily related to sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Elliott said: *"I ask these questions because I honestly can't fathom how good it must be to have kids OUT THE HOUSE. I've got a looooooong time till I can experience it (I have a 8 year old and a 4 year old). It seems so foreign to me, borderline impossible to image. It's obvious I'm the HD one in the marriage, but I what is the balance between to much sex and not enough sex?"*

Dude, yesssss....let me be the first to testify....having an empty nest is AWESOME!! And yes, we do run around naked, have sex in every room, and love love love every minute of it.

We have grandkids, and we see them and take them out on kid dates regularly...yet every time we take them home we high five each other and say "woo hoo, we have no little kids at home!"

The day my youngest moved out, we planned an all nighter naked party in celebration! The young one stopped by the next day and wanted to know why there were champaigne bottles in the kitchen. HA! 

For all of you with little ones, they are gone before you know it. Even if you have another 10 years of child rearing, it goes by in a flash. Have hope for your own future and make plans to use it well!

In your case Elliott, I don't know if having an empty nest will make your wife want more sex or not...that is yet to be seen. BUT the opportunity will exist, for sure. And yes, it is freeing and exciting. I felt like a new person after my kids moved out. You go through the rocky moments of feeling sad and old and scared for your kids and scared of change. But then once you get the hang of it, you remember that YOU are a whole person, not "just" a parent.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Men, biologically, desire sex. Women, biologically, desire sex. How much they pursue sex(their sex drive) depends on the individual, and is not always a determination of biology. For some men and women, they are taught from a young age that sex isn't/shouldn't be important, and so while they may have the biological desire, they feel guilty when acting on it. Others were brought up in families where the parents made sure to teach them that sex _is_ important, and so they make sure to make it a priority. Others, despite what they were taught, come up with their own opinions regarding sex in marriage.


You make some good points here and I think it highlights the fallacy of taking general observations and individualizing them. It doesn't matter if we internalize it upon ourselves our externalize it upon others, generalities just don't work at all when it comes to individuals. People are all different.

At the same time though, I don't think the _perception_ exists in a vacuum. I know TAM is not a typical slice of the population in the statistical sense, but the perception people get here is no less real because of it. There are men here who are LD, or at least LD in comparison to their wives. I'm one of them. Is it possible even using a Google targeted site search to find an LD male defending his right to refuse his wife? Or claiming that sex is not part of the marital commitment? Or claiming that sex is not a human need? Or claiming that sex is not truly important to a happy marriage? Or comparing sex when you're not in the mood to being forced to eat when you're already full? (Wasn't that a medieval torture??) 

Even if we forget TAM and look at society as a whole, that perception is still there. Look at how we deal with prostitution as a social ill. Is it the same as we deal with others? I'd argue that with virtually any other social ill, we hold the supplier more accountable than the consumer. Prostitution is the only social ill l can think of where the consumer may face fines roughly 10 times higher than the supplier.

I'm not saying this is unfair. It ties directly to the fact that the 'John' voluntarily makes a choice to break the law, while the sex worker is often simply trying to survive. But why does this situation exist at all? Why are men willing to break the law, risk arrest, prosecution, public humiliation, hefty fines, possible imprisonment, and disease just for sex? Doesn't it ultimately boil down to a simple question of supply and demand? And if that is the case, is it fundamentally different than any other scenario where demand exceeds supply to the point where illegal venues become viable?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> You make some good points here and I think it highlights the fallacy of taking general observations and individualizing them. It doesn't matter if we internalize it upon ourselves our externalize it upon others, generalities just don't work at all when it comes to individuals. People are all different.


Precisely.



> At the same time though, I don't think the _perception_ exists in a vacuum. I know TAM is not a typical slice of the population in the statistical sense, but the perception people get here is no less real because of it.


Of course not. I have had some, personal, breakthroughs regarding my sexuality because of some very positive, encouraging and uplifting women here on TAM. But, I have also had some very real fears about the future, also due to some of the very negative experiences that posters have had in their marriages. The perceptions we can get from a forum like this can be negative, they can be positive. I've had to learn to _not_ let the negative effect me. Just because a handful of men and women are in sexless marriages doesn't mean that _I_ will be. Just because some women are selfish and ignore their husband's needs doesn't mean _I_ will. Sometimes, and especially with certain posters, this forum can make the impression that women are inherently selfish when it comes to sex, that they don't _really_ like it, whether they claim they do or not, and that it's impossible for them to enjoy the physical without the emotional attached to it. I've had to learn that the only person who defines my sexuality is _me_. And that has been very liberating for me.



> There are men here who are LD, or at least LD in comparison to their wives. I'm one of them. Is it possible even using a Google targeted site search to find an LD male defending his right to refuse his wife? Or claiming that sex is not part of the marital commitment? Or claiming that sex is not a human need? Or claiming that sex is not truly important to a happy marriage? Or comparing sex when you're not in the mood to being forced to eat when you're already full? (Wasn't that a medieval torture??)


I've never seen a man say these things. And even though I have seen women say these things, I've also seen a lot of women fight against those ideas. I was the minority on a different forum where I was being told by a handful of other women that my beliefs about sex(that it's vital within marriage) were "dangerous". They said sex was the icing on the cake, that they used to think it was important but grew in wisdom when they realized that it was not, that it was dangerous to put such an emphasis of importance on sex, that it wasn't a need, etc. I was one of the only women there who fought against those ideas. I came here to find support from women about sex and, what do you know? I found it! Holland, EleGirl, Maricha, FaithfulWife, that_girl, southern_wife and many others shocked me when I first came here, because of how open they were about their opinions regarding sex. I saw and learned so much from them, and from a lot of the men here, that really helped me embrace my sexuality for the first time. 

So, while things can seem negative here at times, there is a lot of good here as well.



> Even if we forget TAM and look at society as a whole, that perception is still there. Look at how we deal with prostitution as a social ill. Is it the same as we deal with others? I'd argue that with virtually any other social ill, we hold the supplier more accountable than the consumer. Prostitution is the only social ill l can think of where the consumer may face fines roughly 10 times higher than the supplier.


Okay? I'm not sure how that applies to sex disappearing in marriage. 



> I'm not saying this is unfair. It ties directly to the fact that the 'John' voluntarily makes a choice to break the law, while the sex worker is often simply trying to survive. But why does this situation exist at all? Why are men willing to break the law, risk arrest, prosecution, public humiliation, hefty fines, possible imprisonment, and disease just for sex? Doesn't it ultimately boil down to a simple question of supply and demand? And if that is the case, is it fundamentally different than any other scenario where demand exceeds supply to the point where illegal venues become viable?


I'm not going to discuss the last few sentences because I don't think they're relevant. But about men risking all those things for sex...we're leaving out one very important detail here: you're forgetting that, until recently, it was considered normal for a man to desire sex more than women. All the way back into the Middle Ages and the Renaissance, it was considered "right" for a man to desire women, but if a woman desired a man she was sinning. It was even accepted for a man to seek out a mistress if he was displeased with his wife, yet if she committed adultery, she was often put to death. Some people even hold the belief today that it's "unusual" for a women to desire sex as much as a man. Women have been taught over and over and over that "men want sex more". How else are we supposed to respond? If we're talking about society, what about social conditioning? 

I strongly believe that much of the sexual issues in marriage stem from women being shamed by others for their enjoyment of sexual activities. I'm pretty conservative, but I _do_ believe that if women were taught to respect their bodies and their sexuality by _embracing_ it, rather than trying to deny it, that there would be a lot more sexually fulfilling marriages. Biologically, women are just as capable of desiring sex as men. Our bodies aren't the same, nor do they respond to certain hormones the same way, but we _do_ have the same biological urges: we each desire food, we each desire water, we each desire sleep, our bodies basically respond to exercise the same way; we each produce testosterone and estrogen, just different amounts. 

I don't think that this means that every woman is going to have the same sexual drive, but I do think that if we taught women about their sexuality and how it works _without_ the caveat that men will almost always want sex more than they will, and without any shame or pressure, that we would see more women not only embracing their sexuality, but making it important in their relationships.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

T2, I won't be responding to your entire post, but I did want to comment on a few things. First, The average couple has sex a little more than once a week. So, your definition of an "average" woman, wanting sex _at least_ every day or two, regardless of what's going on, is very off base. ( Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Sexless Statistics ) But even that study doesn't define how much the average man and woman desire sex, though it is interesting that, according to USA Today, 20-30 percent of men and 30-50 percent of women attest to having very little to no sexual desire...that's _awfully_ close in amount. Those numbers overlap, so it seems that the amount of men who don't desire sex much at all is a lot higher than you have said. 

Yeah, a lot of women need the emotional security before she can be sexual. I have never really been one of those. All I needed was trust, and even then, having sex with my husband helped me to _regain_ trust in him during times when I wasn't so sure about our relationship. And having sex when my needs were being neglected helped me to feel closer to him...it satisfied a lot of the emptiness I felt between us. 

And I'm not that special or abnormal. I think there are more women out there like me than you or I realize. I certainly don't think that the average woman is like me, but I don't think it's uncommon either.

Secondly, I absolutely agree that sexual frequency should _not_ be dictated by just one spouse. Marriage is mutual, sex is mutual, therefore frequency must be mutual too, when possible. And it does, from what I have read here, seem that the HD individual is more willing to compromise than the LD individual, something that I find very sad. And it also saddens me that there are so many people who don't believe that sex is important or should be made a priority. I believe that this cheats the individuals out of a satisfying sex life, but that it also makes light of what marriage was intended to be. 

There's nothing wrong with being a LD individual, and there are many lower drive individuals who _are_ willing to compromise with their husband or wife about sexual frequency. Just like there's nothing wrong with being a HD individual. Compromise and doing your best to understand the other person is what helps the marriage to be successful and fight resentment, and that goes for every aspect...not just sex. Even couples who have similar sexual drives can struggle sexually when their lives become busy and hectic. But as long as both are trying their hardest and keeping the marriage a priority, they will be very satisfied. 

One thing that I have found that has helped, is actually writing out a detailed schedule and color coding it; I recently did this with my husband, and I'll have to reorganize it since I just got a job, but it helps both spouses to see what time is dedicated to what thing, and when they will have their time together. I know that my time with my husband isn't going to spent at the gym, since we have gym time listed separately, and he knows that his time with me isn't going to spent on work stuff since it has its own time as well. It's worked really well because we have time together each morning, we each get to do the things we want to do, we each have our alone time, and we have a good 15-20 hours together each week. 

It helps.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Okay? I'm not sure how that applies to sex disappearing in marriage.


It doesn't. At least not on an individual basis. But it does speak directly to the more general question of comparative drive and the social perceptions that derive thereof. 




Created2Write said:


> I'm not going to discuss the last few sentences because I don't think they're relevant. But about men risking all those things for sex...we're leaving out one very important detail here: you're forgetting that, until recently, it was considered normal for a man to desire sex more than women....


Please note that I was talking about perception. (Even italicized it ) If this disparity is driven by factors other than biology, that doesn't weaken the observation that the perception does not exist in a vacuum. 

I'm trying to pour some oil on the water and facilitate a little plurality of thought here. Most men hold this perception for a reason, even if the disparity is not nearly as large as they imagine.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I thought I addressed the idea of perception.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> I thought I addressed the idea of perception.


I appreciate that, but all of us have a severe handicap when it comes to this. If I could explain the female perspective to T2, I would do it. But after 40 years of marriage and raising three daughters, I still can't. 

So I do what I can and try to take the patronization out of terms like, 'Rose colored glasses' to nice ladies like you by explaining _why _men feel the way they feel. 

On page 7 of this thread I linked to an article from the _Personality and Social Psychology Review._ This article was one of the more comprehensive summaries of the studies extant in the field. It covered every major behavioral indicator. Again, this might be driven by factors other than biology, but it goes a long way in explaining why the perception exists.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> I appreciate that, but all of us have a severe handicap when it comes to this. If I could explain the female perspective to T2, I would do it. But after 40 years of marriage and raising three daughters, I still can't.
> 
> So I do what I can and try to take the patronization out of terms like, 'Rose colored glasses' to nice ladies like you by explaining _why _men feel the way they feel.


Explaining one's perspective only works when the other person has a desire to listen and consider what's being said, even if they still end up disagreeing. And with some people, that's simply not the case, unfortunately. And even if you could explain _a_ female perspective, I don't think you could explain _every_ female perspective, as there are many. 

I wish T2 wouldn't use phrases like "rose colored glasses" or "deep down you all agree with me" or "seriously, admit it", because it _does_ patronize, but it also limits actual communication. He seems to think that we all have to agree before we can communicate, and that's just not so. People can disagree and still communicate their own opinions, but that requires respect toward the other person, which is something he doesn't seem to get yet. 



> On page 7 of this thread I linked to an article from the _Personality and Social Psychology Review._ This article was one of the more comprehensive summaries of the studies extant in the field. It covered every major behavioral indicator. Again, this might be driven by factors other than biology, but it goes a long way in explaining why the perception exists.


I'm not trying to imply that the average woman _does_ desire sex as much as the average man, though T2 was determined to see it that way. I do, however, object to many of his ideas regarding women...that they want to kill their husband's but don't do so because they were raised not to...that the average woman doesn't want or enjoy sex...that women are incapable of having sex without an emotional connected...that women always feel resentment when they have sex, etc. While these statements may be true for a large portion of women, it doesn't mean it's true for the average woman. Again, this forum represents a very small percentage of the population and certainly doesn't give an accurate portrayal of women as a whole.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> And even if you could explain _a_ female perspective, I don't think you could explain _every_ female perspective, as there are many.




We're all individuals and I've been happy to state as much. At a more general level, we do share certain physical, mental and cultural commonalities within our gender. For many of us, the cultural aspect started at birth when we were given either a blue or pink blanket. These commonalities shouldn't imply unanimity of thought, because individualism is a more basic component of our psyche. But they are still real. 

An illustration along the lines of your cognomen here would be writing. It is unusual for a female author to be able to create male characters that men identify with and accept as authentic at a gut level. And the reverse is every bit as true if not more so. (There's actually a book on the difficulties male writers have with female characters entitled _Almost a Girl: Male Writers and Female Identification_) Take Alcott as an example. Generations of females have enjoyed her novel, _Little Women_. Her novel _Little Men_ does not have a corresponding audience among men and never did. If a male is interested in 19th century American literature, he's far more likely to read and enjoy Twain. 

These commonalities are the premise behind prestigious journals in psychology, like the _Psychology of Women Quarterly_. They (in part) are the premise behind Women's Studies and Gender Studies courses. They are the premise for columns in magazines like _The Male Perspective_. And they are the premise behind 'Ladies' Lounge' and 'Men's Clubhouse' divisions here on TAM.

So I stand by my use of the definite article. I will never be able to explain _a_ female('s) perspective because as we both know, they're all different. But it is conceivable for a man or woman to reach a generic understanding of the other gender's perspective.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Explaining one's perspective only works when the other person has a desire to listen and consider what's being said, even if they still end up disagreeing. And with some people, that's simply not the case, unfortunately. And even if you could explain _a_ female perspective, I don't think you could explain _every_ female perspective, as there are many.
> 
> I wish T2 wouldn't use phrases like "rose colored glasses" or "deep down you all agree with me" or "seriously, admit it", because it _does_ patronize, but it also limits actual communication. He seems to think that we all have to agree before we can communicate, and that's just not so. People can disagree and still communicate their own opinions, but that requires respect toward the other person, which is something he doesn't seem to get yet.
> 
> ...


I will respond...

I never said all women want to kill their husbands I did identify the difference in multiple species... monogamy is the exception.

Marriage is a human construct and sets a series of predefined boundaries in which a couple can safely abuse the other . We all have no idea what happens in a marriage as we all usually put on a good public face.

Your point of average of once or twice a week being normal that is a compromise toward the female spouse that is close enough to the male spouses drive that he does not bother to argue about it typically...the most important part is regularity. So in a marriage like that its regular thus both partners are happy... compromise toward the female spouse and accept it.

Now you ask that husband hows the 1-2x week sex life..he'd say fine.

If you ask him would like like more sex from your wife than the current level (assuming she is still physically mentally attractive to him) the answer will be YES.

So yes i do believe that is you take everything else out of the equation...MOST marriages are highly weighted to the female partner drive and that is because the woman has more power over sex than the man does.

Women know this and some later in life start withholding for a multitude of excuses usually happen when she has calculated he won't leave.

Its relatively easy for a woman to replace sex with something else like Facebook or going out with friends or the gym. To her she now gets more sleep, doesn't have stuff dripping out of her and the husband usually will accept this (for a time) and she may even she positive changes from him chasing the sex they once had or better with her.

The tendency for women to replace sex so easily is part of the issue here (speaks to raw drive)... on the male side it is IMPOSSIBLE to replace sex with anything else... Its IMPOSSIBLE to just let it go. Basically the female has now taken away the chance to practice SEX, to perfect SEX, to enjoy he results of a great SEX life..... very much like going to the gym... you go to practice, get better and enjoy the results. How would you gym fanatics like being banned from he gym????? Until you spouse says you can go?

So the idea of SEX is very different in each gender. That affects the 'drive'

The only males not having sex by choice either are proving a point, cheating, medical issue, or have some of base non-mainstream view. That is why they are very rare especially if they have a decent wife who wants sex.

While I do appreciate you tenacity in arguing your side just remember you are not a male if you were you would completely understand my view by actually feeling he male sex drive you would be floored.

Average Males have little needed to be up for sex and would have it everyday multiple times a day if they could wave some magic wand.

Average Females would not use a wish on SEX.... unless they happen to be one married to a "LD" husband. Which are the exceptions not the normal marriage out there.

I do listen to you and you have some valid point bout women being more sexually enlightened versus history... hwever males never need that enlightening.

That's because enlightenment happens in the brain with thoughts and not just raw sex drive.

This is just like males who are enlightened to be the best stay at home dad to raise the kids...it can work as long as you convince yourself that path is valid one for your marraige... is it natural no its enlightenment.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Your point of average of once or twice a week being normal that is a compromise toward the female spouse that is close enough to the male spouses drive that he does not bother to argue about it typically...the most important part is regularity. So in a marriage like that its regular thus both partners are happy... compromise toward the female spouse and accept it.
> 
> Now you ask that husband hows the 1-2x week sex life..he'd say fine.
> 
> ...


Oh where to begin....
T2, you are working under an assumption that you know what every man wants and/or thinks. When, in fact, you do not. You assume that the compromises made are done so more toward what the woman wants. Again, this is your observation in YOUR OWN marriage. When someone presents an opposing viewpoint, you tell them that they are not "the norm". Really? Why? Because it's not what YOU have experienced? FYI, when my husband and I met, he believed that sex was for procreation alone. Now, if we had "settled" on 1-2 times each week, that would have been toward HIS inclination/drive, not mine. My drive was such that I wanted sex a minimum of every other day. We "settled" on about 3 times each week. I will acknowledge that it did lean more toward mine...this much is true. However, it was the HIGHER frequency that went with mine, not the lower. And, he was perfectly healthy at that time. 



Trying2figureitout said:


> The only males not having sex by choice either are proving a point, cheating, medical issue, or have some of base non-mainstream view. That is why they are very rare especially if they have a decent wife who wants sex.
> 
> While I do appreciate you tenacity in arguing your side just remember *you are not a male if you were you would completely understand my view by actually feeling he male sex drive you would be floored.*


Oh, T2, that goes both ways. If you were really wanting to understand, were really listening/reading, you would acknowledge what women are saying about their own drives. Instead, you keep throwing out the same tired argument, over and over again. Newsflash: You know what you live with, we know what we live with. You have no clue what a woman's sex drive is because you are not a woman.

Now, until recently, we DID end up having matching drives. So, I will acknowledge that, currently, my husband is lower drive than I am, due to medical issues. Regardless of that, it still doesn't change the fact that you would be "floored", as you put it, if you knew how we women think about sex. Again, you know your own thoughts... no more, no less.



Trying2figureitout said:


> Average Males have little needed to be up for sex and would have it everyday multiple times a day if they could wave some magic wand.
> 
> Average Females would not use a wish on SEX.... unless they happen to be one married to a "LD" husband. Which are the exceptions not the normal marriage out there.
> 
> ...


Again, I beg to differ. Some men do need that... just as some women do. Honestly, T2, many still have doubts as to what you "know". You know yourself. You know a few people you speak with. You know what some post on here.

You say that we ladies who like sex and seem to have higher drives (compared to your wife, as well as some others posting here) are the exception, not the norm. Honestly, I'm inclined to believe otherwise. Not solely because of my own experience, but because often, people who are HAPPY in their sex life aren't looking to take surveys nor are they going to counselors, taking quizzes, etc. They are having sex...and have no need to brag about it because they are happy. 

But what do I know? I'm just a woman who knows what it's like to be a woman with a sex drive.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> We're all individuals and I've been happy to state as much. At a more general level, we do share certain physical, mental and cultural commonalities within our gender. For many of us, the cultural aspect started at birth when we were given either a blue or pink blanket. These commonalities shouldn't imply unanimity of thought, because individualism is a more basic component of our psyche. But they are still real.


I absolutely agree.



> An illustration along the lines of your cognomen here would be writing. It is unusual for a female author to be able to create male characters that men identify with and accept as authentic at a gut level. And the reverse is every bit as true if not more so. (There's actually a book on the difficulties male writers have with female characters entitled _Almost a Girl: Male Writers and Female Identification_) Take Alcott as an example. Generations of females have enjoyed her novel, _Little Women_. Her novel _Little Men_ does not have a corresponding audience among men and never did. If a male is interested in 19th century American literature, he's far more likely to read and enjoy Twain.


I love _Little Women_. SUCH a great novel.



> These commonalities are the premise behind prestigious journals in psychology, like the _Psychology of Women Quarterly_. They (in part) are the premise behind Women's Studies and Gender Studies courses. They are the premise for columns in magazines like _The Male Perspective_. And they are the premise behind 'Ladies' Lounge' and 'Men's Clubhouse' divisions here on TAM.
> 
> So I stand by my use of the definite article. I will never be able to explain _a_ female('s) perspective because as we both know, they're all different. But it is conceivable for a man or woman to reach a generic understanding of the other gender's perspective.


I totally understand what you're saying. I guess my biggest point is that there is, often, more than one perspective belonging to each gender, even with the physical and mental similarities. So, while a person may be able to understand a specific perspective that belongs to a collective group of women, it doesn't mean that there aren't other perspectives as well. 

Perhaps I'm over complicating things...I just don't like this idea that "women" as a whole have one basic perspective when it comes to sex. I could be misunderstanding your point entirely, and if so I apologize.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I will respond...
> 
> I never said all women want to kill their husbands I did identify the difference in multiple species... monogamy is the exception.
> 
> Marriage is a human construct and sets a series of predefined boundaries in which a couple can safely abuse the other . We all have no idea what happens in a marriage as we all usually put on a good public face.


I don't agree with your definition of marriage.



> Your point of average of once or twice a week being normal that is a compromise toward the female spouse


Proof? And besides, you missed my entire point.



> that is close enough to the male spouses drive that he does not bother to argue about it typically...the most important part is regularity. So in a marriage like that its regular thus both partners are happy... compromise toward the female spouse and accept it.


And now you'll tell me that it's next to impossible for any man to want sex less than every day of the week.  I've seen enough women on here complaining about their husband's lack of sexual desire to understand that that situation is far more common than people think. According to _USA Today_ 20 to 30% of men report not having much of a desire for sex. That's _a lot_ of men, and it is very close to the number of women who reported the same thing. 

Men and women are more equal in this regard than you care to admit.



> Now you ask that husband hows the 1-2x week sex life..he'd say fine.
> 
> If you ask him would like like more sex from your wife than the current level (assuming she is still physically mentally attractive to him) the answer will be YES.


Because you know every man on the planet. I forgot that.



> So yes i do believe that is you take everything else out of the equation...MOST marriages are highly weighted to the female partner drive *and that is because the woman has more power over sex than the man does.*


I would phrase this that the lower drive individual has more power. There are a lot of women who have husband's who refuse to have sex with them, and in those cases, the _husband_ has the sexual power. So, I will agree that the _lower drive individual_ holds more power over sex than the higher drive individual. Both men and women can occupy these positions.



> Women know this and some later in life start withholding for a multitude of excuses usually happen when she has calculated he won't leave.


Again, I'd say that the _lower drive individual_ does this. 



> Its relatively easy for a woman to replace sex with something else like Facebook or going out with friends or the gym. To her she now gets more sleep, doesn't have stuff dripping out of her and the husband usually will accept this (for a time) and she may even she positive changes from him chasing the sex they once had or better with her.


Your understanding of women is very shallow and narrow minded. I feel sorry for your wife. 



> The tendency for women to replace sex so easily is part of the issue here (speaks to raw drive)... on the male side it is IMPOSSIBLE to replace sex with anything else... Its IMPOSSIBLE to just let it go. Basically the female has now taken away the chance to practice SEX, to perfect SEX, to enjoy he results of a great SEX life..... very much like going to the gym... you go to practice, get better and enjoy the results. How would you gym fanatics like being banned from he gym????? Until you spouse says you can go?


*Again*, I would say that this is what the _higher drive individual_ has to endure from the _lower drive individual_, assuming that there isn't already a compromise in place. Because even when drives are mismatched, there are relationships where there still exists a happy, mutually satisfying sexual life. 

Your idea of marriage disturbs me, and I can say for sure that, never once, have I experienced anything that you say "women" feel or desire. I've never, once, wanted to withhold sex from my husband, even when _he_ was neglecting my needs. I never, once, lost desire for him. I have never felt resentment during sex. I have never tried to control our sexual life, I have never complained about sex being too frequent, nor have I ever thought that sex was too frequent. Quite the contrary. 

You realize that when you say "women do xyz", you _are_ lumping women like me and Maricha, and FaithfulWife, and Scarlet, and EleGirl, and Holland, and committed4ever, and all of the other women who enjoy sex into one category? 



> So the idea of SEX is very different in each gender. That affects the 'drive'


I think that idea of sex _can_ be different in each gender, but I also think it can be exactly the same. I don't know what it's like to be a man, but I understand what it's like to desire sex...to need it...to lose concentration because I want it so badly...to mess up something I'm working on because I can't stop fantasizing about my husband...to have run to the bedroom and satisfy myself just so I can focus on what I'm doing...to not even need or want foreplay because I've been thinking about sex all day and I just my husband to pound into me like it's the last night we'll ever spend together...and I understand the strong, emotional and physical connection that exists through sex that simply can't be compared to any other connection on earth...it can't be replaced or duplicated...it can't be tossed aside...contrary to what you think about women, I _can't_ imagine facebook being more enjoyable than sex with my husband...I'd go without sleep for days on end if it meant having sex with my husband...I'd choose sex over sleep ten times out of ten. 

So yes, I think that women are more than capable of understanding the importance of sex. And I think that there are plenty of women who make sex a priority because they couldn't live without it. I couldn't. I wouldn't stay in a sexless marriage longer than a year, and that's pushing it. 

I wish you had a woman who liked sex, T2. You might understand women better if you did. 



> The only males not having sex by choice either are proving a point, cheating, medical issue, or have some of base non-mainstream view. That is why they are very rare especially if they have a decent wife who wants sex.


1. A man who has a medical issue isn't _choosing_ not to have sex. 
2. A man who is cheating is still having sex, it's just not with his wife.

And they _aren't_ very rare. Nearly 1/3 of men report not having a strong desire for sex, if they have any desire for it at all. That's _a lot_ of men...that's _a lot_ of marriages/relationships. 



> While I do appreciate you tenacity in arguing your side just remember you are not a male if you were you would completely understand my view by actually feeling he male sex drive you would be floored.


I don't need to be a male to understand the importance of sex. Your ignorance knows no bounds. 



> Average Males have little needed to be up for sex and would have it everyday multiple times a day if they could wave some magic wand.
> 
> Average Females would not use a wish on SEX.... unless they happen to be one married to a "LD" husband. Which are the exceptions not the normal marriage out there.


I simply don't agree. 



> I do listen to you and you have some valid point bout women being more sexually enlightened versus history... hwever males never need that enlightening.


It's not about enlightenment...you haven't been listening to me at all. It's about the social conditioning that women have been put through...taught throughout the ages that sex was meant to be enjoyed by men, and only endured by women...punished if they enjoyed sex or, in some cases, even if they showed signs of arousal...and even today, isn't it common for a young teenage girl to hear that "men only want _one thing_..."? As if wanting sex was a bad thing! 

It has very little to do with biology, imo, and has more to do with how we, as a society, have failed to teach about the importance of sex. 



> That's because enlightenment happens in the brain with thoughts and not just raw sex drive.
> 
> This is just like males who are enlightened to be the best stay at home dad to raise the kids...it can work as long as you convince yourself that path is valid one for your marraige... is it natural no its enlightenment.


I don't know where you're getting this "enlightenment" stuff. It's not about enlightenment at all. It's about understanding that each person is going to be different than the next. I am not the same as any other woman here on TAM. Sure, I have the same number of chromosomes, I am the same gender, I have the same reproductive organs...but there is so much more that I have that is _strictly *me*_. No one else has the exact DNA I have, because no one else has the same parents I have. 

But beyond my biological makeup, no one else here grew up under my parents roof...or experienced the things I have experienced...more than likely they didn't date the guys I dated...they haven't had the sex I have had because, more than likely, they haven't had sex with my husband...I'm not aroused the same way other women are...I don't have the same sexual tastes that other women have...I'm very, very girly; I like pink and glitter and bling and makeup and heels; I'm very much a free spirit, and even though it took me a few years, I have embraced my sexuality; I can say, without shame, that I would makeout with Scarlet Johansen if given the opportunity; I can say, without shame, that once I have a house I _will_ be installing a first class pole and taking pole dancing lessons; I like handcuffs; I like pretending to be a s!ut...in fact, it's become a pet name my husband uses for me and I am very proud of it...

I was raised in a very conservative Christian home. I was thoroughly convinced, up through the age of seventeen, that sex happened while a husband and wife were asleep. I was very sheltered. I wasn't sexually curious until 18, and it was, seriously, like the change occurred overnight. No one told me that having sex dreams was normal...that waking up aroused was normal. I was never taught that masturbation was normal. I didn't sleep around...I've only had one lover in my life, and I'm still learning about my sexuality after nearly four years of marriage. 

No woman is the same, T2. They may act the same, they may have similar beliefs regarding sex, they may have similar hangups, they may have raging sexual desires, they may desire sex once or twice a week, they may desire it once a month, they may not have any sexual desires at all, but _why_ they have those beliefs, _why_ they have those hangups, and _why_ they have their sexual desires are all going to be different for each woman. For some women, the hangups can be overcome. For some women, their beliefs can change. For some women, their sexual drive can change for better or for worse. All of that is going to depend on the individual. 

Your wife does not define all of us, T2.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I've said this a million times and still believe this to be the case 100%; that women are just not as horny and not into sex as men are - period - end of story.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

That's terrible, Cee Paul, that you've never met a woman with a high drive. Luckily, we do exist.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I've said this a million times and still believe this to be the case 100%; that women are just not as horny and not into sex as men are - period - end of story.


Gosh you have a lot to learn about women then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

The women here are not indicative of the average female wife. The fact you are here at all speaks volumes. This is not normal female wife behavior...

The men here are normal everyday normal drive men... FRUSTRATED at the difference in drives and wondering and stumbing for answers about where did the sex go in their marriage?


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

A man seeking help is not unique, but a woman seeking help IS? I call bull on that. This is not the only SiM forum on the internet.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> That's terrible, Cee Paul, that you've never met a woman with a high drive. Luckily, we do exist.


I was actually married before to a woman who loooved sex and we had a very healthy relationship in the bedroom, and it got quite kinky at times which I liked. But...........she was bi-polar and a bit looney and told me that one of the side effects of her meds was a very high sex drive, so that explains what was going on there. Otherwise my current wife and past girlfriends all had one thing in common........low sex drives, and openly admitted to me that they rarely even like to masturbate while alone. Men will masturbate or wanna have sex in the middle of an earthquake or tornado - lol!


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I was actually married before to a woman who loooved sex and we had a very healthy relationship in the bedroom, and it got quite kinky at times which I liked. But...........she was bi-polar and a bit looney and told me that one of the side effects of her meds was a very high sex drive, so that explains what was going on there. Otherwise my current wife and past girlfriends all had one thing in common........low sex drives, and openly admitted to me that they rarely even like to masturbate while alone. Men will masturbate or wanna have sex in the middle of an earthquake or tornado - lol!


Doing it during an earthquake is on my bucket list! 

To say that men have higher drives than women is erroneous to me. I am walking proof that it is not always so. I am a normal, average woman who desires sex. A deep biological craving. 

You happened to pick women who didn't understand how their drive works (whether it is responsive or not) or didn't understand that they HAD no drive. 

Other women are very in touch with what they want and need, and to have some guy on the internet (not you Cee Paul) patronizing them with ridiculous claims that he can't back up, is highly insulting and rude.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The women here are not indicative of the average female wife. The fact you are here at all speaks volumes. This is not normal female wife behavior...
> 
> The men here are normal everyday normal drive men... FRUSTRATED at the difference in drives and wondering and stumbing for answers about where did the sex go in their marriage?


Where do you get your info and ideas from? Who are you to say that men seeking help here because their marriage is becoming sexless are normal and the women here that are in sexless marriages are not :scratchhead:
Your notions are not only outdated, they are the very reason why we (general) have so many problems in marriage. Your notions show a massive lack of understanding.


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

Wouldn't having sex during an quake be an earth moving experience? God that sounded way better in my head. 

On a more serious note, sex doesn't HAVE to stop because you get married. It doesn't HAVE to get better or worse. It doesn't HAVE to anything. I understand that life happens. I expect something of an ebb and flow. It's summer vacation, so I have three kids running around the house all the time. Things will improve when the two older ones go back to school. I work third shift, and my wife works first shift. Because of the opposing schedules, we set aside Friday night as a time to be husband and wife, not just mother and father. I've been married for going on ten years, and aside from medical reasons, sex hasn't stopped.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> Doing it during an earthquake is on my bucket list!
> 
> To say that men have higher drives than women is erroneous to me. I am walking proof that it is not always so. I am a normal, average woman who desires sex. A deep biological craving.
> 
> ...


If I am incorrect or lying or whatever; then whyyyyy is it almost always MEN on tv talk shows - message boards - magazine articles - or radio call in shows who are complaining about not getting any or getting enough? Everytime a thread goes up on here about not getting enough 9 out of 10 times it's written by us.............MEN.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> If I am incorrect or lying or whatever; then whyyyyy is it almost always MEN on tv talk shows - message boards - magazine articles - or radio call in shows who are complaining about not getting any or getting enough? Everytime a thread goes up on here about not getting enough 9 out of 10 times it's written by us.............MEN.


Maybe because when women post about such things, they get shot down and told it's not normal for them to like sex... because their own wives/gfs/SOs have little to no interest in sex. They don't start their own threads, but they do post on threads which have already been started. So, yes, they do exist. Yes, they do post. They just don't relish having men telling them that it's not normal that they like sex...It *is* normal for women to like sex. You just haven't found one who is "normal" who does... which is really sad, actually.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> And now you'll tell me that it's next to impossible for any man to want sex less than every day of the week.  I've seen enough women on here complaining about their husband's lack of sexual desire to understand that that situation is far more common than people think. According to _USA Today_ *20 to 30% of men report not having much of a desire for sex*. That's _a lot_ of men, and it is very close to the number of women who reported the same thing.
> 
> Men and women are more equal in this regard than you care to admit.


Oh, so it's true? Thank you C2W, now I feel less weird. I am one of those people who are perfectly content with 4 times a month sex, or less.... Glad to know that I am one of the 30%.. meaning I am not abnormal.. just uncommon. 

:smthumbup:


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I have been married for almost 27 years and I can state that I still love to have sex with my husband. We have had times in our marriage when our sex life slowed down, but never completely stopped. I can't imagine living in a sexless marriage. I love my husband too much to do that to him, and I think he feels the same way about me.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> If I am incorrect or lying or whatever; then whyyyyy is it almost always MEN on tv talk shows - message boards - magazine articles - or radio call in shows who are complaining about not getting any or getting enough? Everytime a thread goes up on here about not getting enough 9 out of 10 times it's written by us.............MEN.


That's like saying because many of the threads on CWI are started by men, women cheat more than men. I don't take threads on TAM to be representative of all relationships or marriages on the planet. 

There are sex starved women out there and perpetuating the belief that it is ALWAYS the man with the high drive marginalizes those of them with a genuine problem. 

Look around. Do a little research. There are HD women out there being deprived of sex then made to feel like freaks because supposedly that is the "male position." They are told there is something wrong with our drive and something wrong with THEM because they cannot get their husbands to participate in a fulfilling, mutually satisfying sex life. 

I've been shamed and told I was a freak for having the drive that I do. But I don't believe that any longer. I'm a normal, average chick and I want sex. Period.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> That's like saying because many of the threads on CWI are started by men, women cheat more than men. I don't take threads on TAM to be representative of all relationships or marriages on the planet.
> 
> There are sex starved women out there and perpetuating the belief that it is ALWAYS the man with the high drive marginalizes those of them with a genuine problem.
> 
> ...


:allhail:

EXACTLY.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> If I am incorrect or lying or whatever; then whyyyyy is it almost always MEN on tv talk shows - message boards - magazine articles - or radio call in shows who are complaining about not getting any or getting enough? Everytime a thread goes up on here about not getting enough 9 out of 10 times it's written by us.............MEN.


Maybe 9/10 of the threads you are reading are by men not getting enough but if you actually looked at all the threads you would see that it is no where near as unbalanced. Daily there are new threads by women about their LD partners etc. 
Your 9/10 is way wrong.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Holland said:


> Maybe 9/10 of the threads you are reading are by men not getting enough but if you actually looked at all the threads you would see that it is no where near as unbalanced. Daily there are new threads by women about their LD partners etc.
> Your 9/10 is way wrong.


The women who are being starved, about half of them are being cheated on, husband has no need...

And I predict its similar in the husbands. Half of those are cheating on the man, uses him for support and the other half is really non sexual. Half of the other half the non sexual was a result of the final power game in taking the sex away.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If you (anyone) simply want to see it that way without examining evidence beyond this website, then sure, it is all men with HD and all wives with LD.

But if you actually look for evidence of sex starved wives, you will find it...there are more websites than just this one.

Also this article is old because the book is old, but there is still a website and the book was very successful.

Help for Sex-Starved Wives - TIME

One has to actually read a little though to see the evidence...if you aren't gonna and you just want to cling to the way you think things are then....ok.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Why are so many men losing their sex drive? Men are now more likely to refuse sex than women - and doctors blame everything from the recession to toxins | Mail Online



12 Reasons Your Man Doesn't Want to Have Sex Anymore | The Stir


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I never meant that "all" women had less sex drives than men do - just most of them. I'll ask this of the ladies; how many of you have went and masturbated in odd places like a public restroom, or maybe parked your car in a dark corner of a parking garage & popped one off? Not only have I myself done one of those at some point and time, but I have heard stories that were even more odd than that where guys I knew either tried to have sex with someone or masturbated by themselves at.

Because like I said most guys are willing to have sex or go solo and pop one off at ANY time or ANY location, but with a lot of women the surroundings have to be just right as well as the mood settings. Not to mention that we also get "arroused" or horny very very easily and with a lot of women there's usually some work/foreplay involved to get to that point.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Why would we need to do that? Finding sex as a female is so easy it is shameful.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I never meant that "all" women had less sex drives than men do - just most of them. I'll ask this of the ladies; how many of you have went and masturbated in odd places like a public restroom, or maybe parked your car in a dark corner of a parking garage & popped one off? Not only have I myself done one of those at some point and time, but I have heard stories that were even more odd than that where guys I knew either tried to have sex with someone or masturbated by themselves at.
> 
> Because like I said most guys are willing to have sex or go solo and pop one off at ANY time or ANY location, but with a lot of women the surroundings have to be just right as well as the mood settings. Not to mention that we also get "arroused" or horny very very easily and with a lot of women there's usually some work/foreplay involved to get to that point.


I think this is more to do with self control than higher drive of men over women. 

Arousal, well that is not a big deal, I think about sex a lot, I initiate a lot and even when it is not on my mind I get in the mood with a simple kiss on the neck. 

Your thinking or lack of understanding of women may well be clouded by your personal experience and that is standard.
But if I viewed men by the experience I had in marriage then I would also have an incorrect idea of the average man.

And I agree with Annie, as a woman it is so easy to get sex that the rest is a moot point.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> I think this is more to do with self control than higher drive of men over women.
> 
> Arousal, well that is not a big deal, I think about sex a lot, I initiate a lot and even when it is not on my mind I get in the mood with a simple kiss on the neck.
> 
> ...


Hate to be harsh about this, but if you are a female who is ugly or very odd looking you are not getting sex with anyone unless they are ugly - desperate - and odd looking as well. Because if you are not really cute or attractive most men are not going to be interested, I know for a fact that I wouldn't be. And I grew up in a house full of women(my mom and 4 sisters)and have been married twice and been in 3 other short relationships, so I have a pretty good understanding of women for the record.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> Why would we need to do that? Finding sex as a female is so easy it is shameful.


Right there is *absolute proof* of the male drive over the female drive. How true.


Thanks I forgot about that OBVIOUS example.

Single Males will have sex with just about any female if given a chance, even ugly ones after a few beers.

Single Males have to seek sex (unfortunately average married males do to with their own wives.)... a woman has males all over her in droves if she is available and willing. Not the same for a willing and available male. Why? Respective sex drives of the genders.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Right there is *absolute proof* of the male drive over the female drive.
> Thanks I forgot about that example.


It may not be about absolute proof of drive as much as absolute proof that men are raised to view casual sex in a very different way than females are raised to view it.
It's 'cool' for men to have casual sex so of course there will be more options for a woman when she goes seeking sex.It's "sl*tty" for a woman to have casual sex and is viewed as lowering her value so that will make it more difficult for men to always find sex when he wants it.

A woman's drive might be sky high but she won't do anything about it bc she was taught to hold back.

So we may never really know which sex has the higher drive bc of social conditioning factors.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Let's not forget there's a saying that been around since probably the 1960's - "not tonight honey I have a headache", which came from a *woman* to avoid having sex that night. But guys will just simply take a handful of Tylenol if that were truely the case and be READY to go.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I don't get the headache thing.Orgasms actually help w/headaches.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Hate to be harsh about this, but if you are a female who is ugly or very odd looking you are not getting sex with anyone unless they are ugly - desperate - and odd looking as well.


Thank God then I'm the second half of an odd-looking couple that has great, regular sex. 

Also - remember the -average- person is -average- looking not "really cute or attractive" and yet - most people manage to have sex? So - I think your logic is kind of flawed. I'm thinking a lot more guys are having a lot more sex with all those "odd looking" women than you might imagine. 

Sarah Jessica Parker has sex, that's all the evidence I need.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I don't get the headache thing.Orgasms actually help w/headaches.


My ex usually wanted to do it everytime she was "cramping" because she said it helped her tremendously with that; is that true with some women or a myth?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It may not be about absolute proof of drive as much as absolute proof that men are raised to view casual sex in a very different way than females are raised to view it.
> It's 'cool' for men to have casual sex so of course there will be more options for a woman when she goes seeking sex.It's "sl*tty" for a woman to have casual sex and is viewed as lowering her value so that will make it more difficult for men to always find sex when he wants it.
> 
> A woman's drive might be sky high but she won't do anything about it bc she was taught to hold back.
> ...


Why won't you just admit the blatant obvious, why do you continue to argue with reality?

There is no shame in a gender having a different sex drive on average. Yet you defend your position tooth and nail.

Look at nature...many males FIGHT over the right to mate with ONE female in species after species...thats why there are more males than females planet wide.

Diversity of offspring.... nature works this way.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Starstarfish said:


> Thank God then I'm the second half of an odd-looking couple that has great, regular sex.
> 
> Also - remember the -average- person is -average- looking not "really cute or attractive" and yet - most people manage to have sex? So - I think your logic is kind of flawed. I'm thinking a lot more guys are having a lot more sex with all those "odd looking" women than you might imagine.
> 
> Sarah Jessica Parker has sex, that's all the evidence I need.


My point on that was that just because you are simply a "female" doesn't mean you automatically get laid by anyone, because I see hundreds of women every week out and about that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole(no pun intended)even if I were drunk and single.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> My ex usually wanted to do it everytime she was "cramping" because she said it helped her tremendously with that; is that true with some women or a myth?


I'll tell you my wife's overall health has gone down during our sexless years... she never really feels 100%.

Most likely the stress and the lack of sex.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> I never meant that "all" women had less sex drives than men do - just most of them. I'll ask this of the ladies; how many of you have went and masturbated in odd places like a public restroom, or maybe parked your car in a dark corner of a parking garage & popped one off? Not only have I myself done one of those at some point and time, but I have heard stories that were even more odd than that where guys I knew either tried to have sex with someone or masturbated by themselves at.
> 
> Because like I said most guys are willing to have sex or go solo and pop one off at ANY time or ANY location, but with a lot of women the surroundings have to be just right as well as the mood settings. Not to mention that we also get "arroused" or horny very very easily and with a lot of women there's usually some work/foreplay involved to get to that point.


DH and I have had sex in various public places. I masturbated in the bathroom at college on way more than one occasion. I've masturbated in the bathrooms on restaurants. I've masturbated in the car behind a store. 

Those are all I can think of at the moment, but yeah. I've had sex and masturbated in some pretty odd places.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> My point on that was that just because you are simply a "female" doesn't mean you automatically get laid by anyone, because I see hundreds of women every week out and about that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole(no pun intended)even if I were drunk and single.


That's you, fine. But for each of those hundreds of women there are plenty of guys thinking "I'd hit it". You know, different strokes for different folks.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Why won't you just admit the blatant obvious, why do you continue to argue with reality?
> 
> There is no shame in a gender having a different sex drive on average. Yet you defend your position tooth and nail.
> 
> Look at nature...many males FIGHT over the right to mate with ONE female in species after species...thats why ther are more males than females planet wide.



ok,T2,ok.You can be right if it makes you feel better.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It may not be about absolute proof of drive as much as absolute proof that men are raised to view casual sex in a very different way than females are raised to view it.
> It's 'cool' for men to have casual sex so of course there will be more options for a woman when she goes seeking sex.It's "sl*tty" for a woman to have casual sex and is viewed as lowering her value so that will make it more difficult for men to always find sex when he wants it.
> 
> A woman's drive might be sky high but she won't do anything about it bc she was taught to hold back.
> ...


My point exactly. How women act in regards to sex is not always an indication of their sexual drive.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

CharlieParker said:


> That's you, fine. But for each of those hundreds of women there are plenty of guys thinking "I'd hit it". You know, different strokes for different folks.


Yes the only reason a "butter face" female doesn't have sex is she takes herself out of circulation.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> ok,T2,ok.You can be right if it makes you feel better.


It doesn't make me "feel better" its reality.

If we all start with that premise perhaps solutions can be found...to explain the divorce rates and all the unhappy marriages.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Let's not forget there's a saying that been around since probably the 1960's - "not tonight honey I have a headache", which came from a *woman* to avoid having sex that night. But guys will just simply take a handful of Tylenol if that were truely the case and be READY to go.


I've taken the tylenol myself because I love and enjoy sex too much to let a minor headache get in the way. And if we didn't have a pain killer, I had sex anyway! Sex is a great way to get rid of headaches, actually.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> It doesn't make me "feel better" its *MY* reality.


Let us try to be as accurate as possible with our comments about reality.Everyone lives in their own reality in one way or another.Your perception=your reality.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Let us try to be as accurate as possible with our comments about reality.Everyone lives in their own reality in one way or another.Your perception=your reality.


There you go arguing with evolution and procreation tendencies of every living thing on this planet for the past several million years.... not my reality.... Earths reality. Life on Earth's reality.

Where did all the "shame" come from...because that is the way its been forever and will be into the Earths future. Until we come up with designer births in a lab.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Right there is *absolute proof* of the male drive over the female drive. How true.
> 
> 
> Thanks I forgot about that OBVIOUS example.
> ...


How is that absolute proof? Because some PEOPLE will have sex with anything that moves? I don't think that speaks to drive but more toward desperation and a fear of being alone. Seen it. 

I won't share what I did sexually when I was single. I won't even share what I do sexually now that I am married. It would come off as bragging, especially since I'm a little left of vanilla. 

I'm sorry your wife doesn't want to have sex with you. A sexless marriage can be one of the most painful things to endure. I can see why it must help you get through the daily rejections by screaming "every woman is like my wife!" I hope things get better for you in the future. I wish you the very best of luck. 

You don't know everything about every woman. If you had ever been lucky enough to find a woman with a sexual nature, I'm sure you'd be whistling a different tune. We exist, happily boffing our husbands 2 times a days, every other day, until he begs for mercy.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

_Your_ reality, T2. But that doesn't mean it's anyone elses reality. 

I didn't sleep around. I didn't experiment. I didn't fool around. I only, ever, have had any sexual encounters with the man who is now my husband. I'm sure the other guys I dated thought I was a prude. I wasn't. I had very real sexual urges, but wasn't going to pursue them until I knew I was with someone I could trust. So while my actions could have portrayed a woman with little interest in sex, my biological urges were still there. And I didn't even know how strongly until I started having sex! One little kiss on the lips would set me on fire. 

A woman's actions and behaviors are not always indicative of her sexual drive.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> How is that absolute proof? Because some PEOPLE will have sex with anything that moves? I don't think that speaks to drive but more toward desperation and a fear of being alone. Seen it.
> 
> I won't share what I did sexually when I was single. I won't even share what I do sexually now that I am married. It would come off as bragging, especially since I'm a little left of vanilla.
> 
> ...


:smthumbup: :iagree:

I especially like that last paragraph there, Annie.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> There you go arguing with evolution and procreation tendencies of every living thing on this planet for the past several million years.... not my reality.... Earths reality. Life on Earth's reality.
> 
> Where did all the "shame" come from...because that is the way its been forever and will be into the Earths future. Until we come up with designer births in a lab.


who here has shame about anything? no one that I can see other than you maybe.There's no shame in admitting women might beat your drive and you missed out on having one of those women.It doesn't make you less of a man.It'll be alright.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I've taken the tylenol myself because I love and enjoy sex too much to let a minor headache get in the way. And if we didn't have a pain killer, I had sex anyway! Sex is a great way to get rid of headaches, actually.


Only one of those puking migraines can stop me from getting naked with my husband!:rofl:

Sex actually cured a stomachache I had last week.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> thats why there are more males than females planet wide.


There's a lot of factors that go into that, and it varies country by country and in between different age groups. 

File:Sex ratio total population.PNG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by sex ratio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the rate of China, for example - where female babies are purposefully aborted or left to die, and accordingly their male to female ratio is a higher than other countries.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> How is that absolute proof? Because some PEOPLE will have sex with anything that moves? I don't think that speaks to drive but more toward desperation and a fear of being alone. Seen it.
> 
> I won't share what I did sexually when I was single. I won't even share what I do sexually now that I am married. It would come off as bragging, especially since I'm a little left of vanilla.
> 
> ...


That is just you and your specific high drive...not the average married female.

You can claim its based on my wife... you know that hold no water as a valid argument.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> who here has shame about anything? no one that I can see other than you maybe.There's no shame in admitting women might beat your drive and you missed out on having one of those women.It doesn't make you less of a man.It'll be alright.




This is an example of average woman's tendency.... in light of all proof they will STILL argue their point.

Because they are right and by goodness women are equal at everything..

Because they right and correct are no matter what.

Part of why the divorce rates are sky high.
I admit fully many women beat my drive.... but when you look at averages there is no argument.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

T2, the issue is that you keep ignoring the women in this thread and their personal testimonies. There are at least six that have said, "Hey, we're not like your wife...we love sex...don't lump us all together!", and _you_ are the one that keeps denying reality. 

Are there a lot of women like your wife? Yes, there are. Are there a lot of women who enjoy sex? Yes, there are. Are there a lot of women who love sex and want it constantly? Yes, there are. 

You're acting like there are only two categories: men who love sex and women who hate it. THAT is NOT reality. It's just your perception based on your very unfortunate sexless marriage. I hope that your wife either wakes up, or you do so you can actually experience what life is like with a woman who can't get enough of your body.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> That is just you and your specific high drive...not the average married female.
> 
> You can claim its based on my wife... you know that hold no water as a valid argument.


Like I said...I'm not special or unique. I'm normal, but kinda awesome. 

It seems very based on your wife because of the obvious reason: you've not polled every female on the planet. And oh yeah, you have a gaggle of women here telling you otherwise. Good luck figuring it out. 

Toodles.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> This is an example of average woman's tendency.... in light of all proof they will STILL argue their point.


Right. All of that "proof" you _still_ haven't provided. Just because you say that something is a fact or reality doesn't mean that it is. 

I really wish you'd be more willing to hear what we're saying. If you were, you might actually see that there is HOPE for you. I'm starting to think that you only stay with your wife because you think most women are just like her...so why leave if you're more than likely to find the same thing a second time? If you could only see how common it is for women to enjoy and love sex, you'd actually have a reason to leave your wife and find a woman who'd jump you all the time. 

My husband loves my body, and there's absolutely no feeling better in the entire world than knowing that he wants to possess me. Nothing can compare to that.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> This is an example of average woman's tendency.... in light of all proof they will STILL argue their point.
> 
> Because they are right and by goodness women are equal at everything..
> 
> ...


:rofl:

I don't believe women are equal at everything. Both sexes have their own set of strengths and weaknesses.

I'm wrong a lot and SO is right a lot. Sounds like you hang out with some seriously immature and uppity b*tches if you've formulated the idea that women think they're right all the time.

Divorce rates are sky high bc people don't know how to communicate their needs.They also don't know how to put their pride aside to meet their partners needs with an open heart and mind.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> T2, the issue is that you keep ignoring the women in this thread and their personal testimonies. There are at least six that have said, "Hey, we're not like your wife...we love sex...don't lump us all together!", and _you_ are the one that keeps denying reality.
> 
> Are there a lot of women like your wife? Yes, there are. Are there a lot of women who enjoy sex? Yes, there are. Are there a lot of women who love sex and want it constantly? Yes, there are.
> 
> You're acting like there are only two categories: men who love sex and women who hate it. THAT is NOT reality. It's just your perception based on your very unfortunate sexless marriage. I hope that your wife either wakes up, or you do so you can actually experience what life is like with a woman who can't get enough of your body.


I discount the women here who are obviously HD as being representative of the average female...and arguing with the overwhelming evidence of reality. This has nothing to do with my marriage apart from the fact that my wife is probably one of the women with a NORMAL fluctuating female drive which means she is willing to abandon it after childbirth. Been there done that.

I'll bet my wife is closer to the average female drive than those who defend here.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Right. All of that "proof" you _still_ haven't provided. Just because you say that something is a fact or reality doesn't mean that it is.
> 
> I really wish you'd be more willing to hear what we're saying. If you were, you might actually see that there is HOPE for you. I'm starting to think that you only stay with your wife because you think most women are just like her...so why leave if you're more than likely to find the same thing a second time? If you could only see how common it is for women to enjoy and love sex, you'd actually have a reason to leave your wife and find a woman who'd jump you all the time.
> 
> My husband loves my body, and there's absolutely no feeling better in the entire world than knowing that he wants to possess me. Nothing can compare to that.


I could explain but I won't because that gets off the thread topic...OP asked why sex has to stop in a marriage...its obvious.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't believe in "normal" drive. I think all levels of desire are "normal" for the individual, so long as there are no medical issues that cause their lack of desire. So, for your wife, she probably _is_ normal, but she's only normal for _her_. Her level of desire isn't going to be "normal" for everyone, so you can't use her as a baseline. 

Now, as far as marriage goes, I don't think it's "normal" for a wife not to desire her husband, or for a husband not to desire his wife. Husband's and wives _should_ desire each other, and if they don't, I think there are issues. Every one deserves to be with someone who desires them sexually. And I believe that everyone can attain that as long as they are willing to look for it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

It's IS obvious. Marriage only stops in sex when one or both partners _allow_ it to stop.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> I don't believe in "normal" drive. I think all levels of desire are "normal" for the individual, so long as there are no medical issues that cause their lack of desire. So, for your wife, she probably _is_ normal, but she's only normal for _her_. Her level of desire isn't going to be "normal" for everyone, so you can't use her as a baseline.
> 
> Now, as far as marriage goes, I don't think it's "normal" for a wife not to desire her husband, or for a husband not to desire his wife. Husband's and wives _should_ desire each other, and if they don't, I think there are issues. Every one deserves to be with someone who desires them sexually. And I believe that everyone can attain that as long as they are willing to look for it.


So you discount.... boredom, stress, electronics as factors?

I argue is IS normal for desire to wane.

In a long term marriage their are many enemies to what you describe.

Much of it is living multiple avatar lives...humans are not conditioned to do that.

Check the divorce rate. Again proof people cannot live together very long in a mutually satisfactory way in every aspect of their lives including sex.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> So you discount.... boredom, stress, electronics as factors?
> 
> In a long term marriage their are many enemies to what you describe.
> 
> ...


Those things only get in the way of sex when one or both spouses allow them to. And just because people divorce doesn't mean that people "can't" live together in a mutually satisfying way. There _are_ marriages where the husband and wife live, without divorce, for years and years and years and years. I believe we make our marriages what we want them to be. People who want a happy marriage will do their part to ensure their marriage is happy, and if the other person refuses to follow suit, will leave and find someone with similar priorities. 

People who want a healthy sex life won't put up with anything less. 

And I find it ironic that you discount the women here and don't see them an accurate representation of the female population, yet you use the _men_ and their experiences as proof of this so called reality? Misogynistic much?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Also - there is indeed a grey zone between "high drive" and "sexually dead" - I mean, the discussion is always geared towards extremes. Also - people have sex for different reasons. While for some people - sex may primarily be about indeed the physical act itself and the raw power of moving towards orgasm, sex isn't that simple. 

I'm a female, who, apparently according to all the discussions on TAM, I'd be labeled "HD" because we have sex on the higher sex of average. And yet - I can honestly say, yes, if you asked me straight on, is my drive for sex a physical compulsion, hmm - sometimes yes, sometime no. And sometimes it's purely an emotional compulsion, to see my husband happy, to feel close to him. And I admit on a purely physical level, it isn't always angel-weeping, earth shattering and I don't always "get mine" - and yet, I still feel the draw. So, I think "women like sex less because they don't orgasm" is also crap. It depends on someone's reasons for sex. 

But - I don't even know what to contribute to this thread at this point, I'm just going to crawl back to my corner of being an odd-looking sex-outcast. I never thought a conversation could actually manage to make me feel bad about having sex, but jeeze.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> Also - there is indeed a grey zone between "high drive" and "sexually dead" - I mean, the discussion is always geared towards extremes. Also - people have sex for different reasons. While for some people - sex may primarily be about indeed the physical act itself and the raw power of moving towards orgasm, sex isn't that simple.
> 
> I'm a female, who, apparently according to all the discussions on TAM, I'd be labeled "HD" because we have sex on the higher sex of average. And yet - I can honestly say, yes, if you asked me straight on, is my drive for sex a physical compulsion, hmm - sometimes yes, sometime no. And sometimes it's purely an emotional compulsion, to see my husband happy, to feel close to him. And I admit on a purely physical level, it isn't always angel-weeping, earth shattering and I don't always "get mine" - and yet, I still feel the draw. So, I think "women like sex less because they don't orgasm" is also crap. It depends on someone's reasons for sex.
> 
> But - I don't even know what to contribute to this thread at this point, I'm just going to crawl back to my corner of being an odd-looking sex-outcast. I never thought a conversation could actually manage to make me feel bad about having sex, but jeeze.


Thanks for your honesty.... now there is some truth in what she describes.

Sex is not a drive in the average female anywhere near the average male drive...it sometimes is sometimes isn't.

much of the time about making the husband happy because she knows he NEEDS sex to not be a total grump and eventually leave her.

If you arguing high desire females would step back and analyze this you would agree for the average woman this is true.

Sex for an average wife serves a purpose in stability, and keeping the peace. Lets call it like it is for once.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> Also - there is indeed a grey zone between "high drive" and "sexually dead" - I mean, the discussion is always geared towards extremes. Also - people have sex for different reasons. While for some people - sex may primarily be about indeed the physical act itself and the raw power of moving towards orgasm, sex isn't that simple.
> 
> I'm a female, who, apparently according to all the discussions on TAM, I'd be labeled "HD" because we have sex on the higher sex of average. And yet - I can honestly say, yes, if you asked me straight on, is my drive for sex a physical compulsion, hmm - sometimes yes, sometime no. And sometimes it's purely an emotional compulsion, to see my husband happy, to feel close to him. And I admit on a purely physical level, it isn't always angel-weeping, earth shattering and I don't always "get mine" - and yet, I still feel the draw. So, I think "women like sex less because they don't orgasm" is also crap. It depends on someone's reasons for sex.
> 
> But - I don't even know what to contribute to this thread at this point, I'm just going to crawl back to my corner of being an odd-looking sex-outcast. I never thought a conversation could actually manage to make me feel bad about having sex, but jeeze.


Don't feel badly, Starfish! Each woman is different in regards to why she enjoys sex. Sometimes it's purely physical for me, sometimes it's purely emotional, sometimes it's a mixture of both. 

Embrace your unique sexuality.  It's beautiful!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Women leave men over sex too, T2. I believe FaithfulWife was one on this forum who did. deejov is another who has struggled with her husband's complete lack of sexual desire, and has said that she plans to leave. I know I would if my husband stopped desiring me.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Women leave men over sex too, T2. I believe FaithfulWife was one on this forum who did. deejov is another who has struggled with her husband's complete lack of sexual desire, and has said that she plans to leave. I know I would if my husband stopped desiring me.


I agree withholding is ABUSE! That says nothing about average drives. Besides the reason he stopped desiring most likely is he found his need satisfied elsewhere or has ED


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I agree withholding is ABUSE! That says nothing about average drives. Besides the reason he stopped desiring most likely is he found his need satisfied elsewhere or has ED


 So when a woman does it, it's normal. But if a man does he's either cheating or has a medical reason?

No wonder you're stuck in your sexless marriage. I feel very bad for you. I hope you find the strength to leave and find a woman who will desire you. You have my best wishes.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> So when a woman does it, it's normal. But if a man does he's either cheating or has a medical reason?
> 
> No wonder you're stuck in your sexless marriage. I feel very bad for you. I hope you find the strength to leave and find a woman who will desire you. You have my best wishes.


Its easy to cast stones at someone from afar when you hear the overwhelming truth and disagree with it to feel better about yourself.

I'm fine.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

My point was - looking at this from a "who physically desires sex more" misses a big point. So does throw-away lines like "women don't need sex after childbirth."

I'm guessing, there may be many women like myself, who would be more than content and happy to have emotionally-driven sex, if they felt emotionally connected to their spouse. Wherein the sex could be meeting very different needs of the two partners. But - you have to get to the point of recognizing that. 

Rather than arguing "women don't want sex like men" until everyone explodes - how about - some women may want sex for different reasons than some men? I mean, if you look at from a "Love Languages" kind of perspective - sex can indeed provide more than "Physical Touch" - it can also provide "Words of Affirmation" (my husband always gives his best compliments during sex  ) and maybe even Gifts (if your lady really appreciates splurging on new sexy bras.)

And yes, the cycle can be counter-intuitive, which is - I desire emotional connection through sex, but require emotional connection to what emotionally connective sex. Is that more complicated than simple physical-driven sexuality. Probably. But - if you put effort into it, you can get that motor running to be self-sustaining. You compliment me, I feel happy. I want you to feel happy, we have sex. You feel happy, you give more compliments (maybe during sex  ) I want more sex. 

Sex isn't one dimensional, and people aren't either. Free yourself. You want to start the motor - take a step. Labeling everyone else as abnormal, ugly, and weird though - that's not a step, that's deflection. Us weird, ugly, abnormal people are having sex - please believe us.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> My point was - looking at this from a "who physically desires sex more" misses a big point. So does throw-away lines like "women don't need sex after childbirth."
> 
> I'm guessing, there may be many women like myself, who would be more than content and happy to have emotionally-driven sex, if they felt emotionally connected to their spouse. Wherein the sex could be meeting very different needs of the two partners. But - you have to get to the point of recognizing that.
> 
> ...


Now the point I have in response is that your list of emotional reasons to have sex are THOUGHTS and thoughts can and do change.

So an average women THINKS her way into sex, now what happens when her THOUGHTS are different?

Sexless marriage

You mention compliments what happens when you compliment and it gets deflected as in the average sexless marriage?

Is it the woman's role to receive the compliment as it was intended?

Many average women change the game midstream and its because their THOUGHTS get changed on sex.

That is why much of this occurs (sexless marriages with men complaining) because the average WOMAN has to think herself into sex with her husband rather than straight needing to bond physically to GET that emotional high like an average male.

When you have to THINK in order to get in the mood that is a flaw in marriage. Thoughts can and do change frequently and the averge woman can more easily forgo sex than her husband.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

No matter how honest and personal I get, it's apparently just going to lead to insults, insinuations, and my words will continue to be misconstrued like anything any female says on this thread to fuel your pre-conceived notions about the flawed nature of female sexuality. 

I'm out. I don't need to hear about how ugly, damaged, and flawed I obviously am (and my marriage obviously is), when I'm not the one in the sexless marriage. 

Anyone want to follow up with comments - PM me, I'm unsubing this thread.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> No matter how honest and personal I get, it's apparently just going to lead to insults, insinuations, and my words will continue to be misconstrued like anything any female says on this thread to fuel your pre-conceived notions about the flawed nature of female sexuality.
> 
> I'm out. I don't need to hear about how ugly, damaged, and flawed I obviously am (and my marriage obviously is), when I'm not the one in the sexless marriage.
> 
> Anyone want to follow up with comments - PM me, I'm unsubing this thread.


I did not insult you or your marriage. And female sexuality is *not flawed*. It is different as you said based more on emotions and thoughts than the male drive where emotions come FROM sex and its more of a physical urge to feel the woman's body and connect emotionally then-through her seeming wanting him.

Not sure what to make of your frustration that is you beating yourself up not me.

I have every right to state my views as do you. I don't think my views are abnormal at all...the drive is different between genders and sex is for different reason between genders. There is no right or wrong just the way it is.

..and helps explain why sex has to stop in a marriage..on average over a long time frame.

We all want to believe we can control this.... hard to beat the differences though and over time. Sex is not guaranteed in long-term marriage. Which may be the NORMAL outcome in large part to the differences in genders regarding the sex act itself.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

T2, you have managed to insult and invalidate almost every woman who posted to this thread. Including me. You know why? Because every time an HD woman expresses how she loves sex and wants it frquently, you say "yeah, but that is not normal" "men usually have a higher drive, stop fighting biology" or some invalidating statement.

Women have been told for eons to hold back their sexuality. It is ingrained in most of us to suppress our drives because we don't want to be called sl*ts or c*nts or some other name. Only recently have we begun to embrace our full sexual selves. I congradulate the women on this board who are HD and have found themselves. I have not reached their yet, and maybe your wife has not either. Or maybe she did with another partner besides yourself.

You seem focused on low drive women and want to ignore all of the evidence of HD women. Maybe this is what you have to do to stay in your sexless marriage and stay sane at the same time. HD women will throw you off of that sanity because then you would be tempted to leave for a better life. You seem intent on staying even though it is making you miserable. You are probably wondering what their husbands have that you don't. You would hate to feel that their are women horny and dying for sex while night after night you go without.

As they say, misery loves company...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

techmom said:


> T2, you have managed to insult and invalidate almost every woman who posted to this thread. Including me. You know why? Because every time an HD woman expresses how she loves sex and wants it frquently, you say "yeah, but that is not normal" "men usually have a higher drive, stop fighting biology" or some invalidating statement.
> 
> Women have been told for eons to hold back their sexuality. It is ingrained in most of us to suppress our drives because we don't want to be called sl*ts or c*nts or some other name. Only recently have we begun to embrace our full sexual selves. I congradulate the women on this board who are HD and have found themselves. I have not reached their yet, and maybe your wife has not either. Or maybe she did with another partner besides yourself.
> 
> ...


Now you are assuming a lot...for one that I am miserable that could not be further from the truth I am in control of my situation and that makes me sane and happy. I don't want any other woman besides my wife. I also know that there would just be other issues besides sex...so I pick my battles.

I am pretty confident and well grounded If anything I feel bad for my wife more than I.

Would I marry her again..in a heartbeat. So don't assume I am miserable. That is not true at all.

At the same time my view is mainstream and valid based on my own research and living through it. I don't buy the we are all on the same footing argument when it comes to sex. There is nothing wrong with admitting the differences and EMBRACING them between genders when it comes to sex drive..


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> T2, the issue is that you keep ignoring the women in this thread and their personal testimonies. There are at least six that have said, "Hey, we're not like your wife...we love sex...don't lump us all together!", and _you_ are the one that keeps denying reality.
> 
> Are there a lot of women like your wife? Yes, there are. Are there a lot of women who enjoy sex? Yes, there are. Are there a lot of women who love sex and want it constantly? Yes, there are.
> 
> You're acting like there are only two categories: men who love sex and women who hate it. THAT is NOT reality. It's just your perception based on your very unfortunate sexless marriage. I hope that your wife either wakes up, or you do so you can actually experience what life is like with a woman who can't get enough of your body.


Include me in the list of women who love sex and want it constantly. :smthumbup:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

techmom said:


> T2, you have managed to insult and invalidate almost every woman who posted to this thread. Including me. You know why? Because every time an HD woman expresses how she loves sex and wants it frquently, you say "yeah, but that is not normal" "men usually have a higher drive, stop fighting biology" or some invalidating statement.
> 
> Women have been told for eons to hold back their sexuality. It is ingrained in most of us to suppress our drives because we don't want to be called sl*ts or c*nts or some other name. Only recently have we begun to embrace our full sexual selves. I congradulate the women on this board who are HD and have found themselves. I have not reached their yet, and maybe your wife has not either. Or maybe she did with another partner besides yourself.
> 
> ...


:allhail::allhail:

But, I just want to add that it's not just the HD ladies he does this to. He also does it to those who would be classified as "normal" drive. By normal, I mean those who enjoy sex frequently, but aren't constantly thinking about sex, and only sex, all day everyday.

T2FIO, whether you want to admit it or not, you are not happy right now. You are not in control. If you were, you would not be insisting that we ladies who enjoy sex as much as you claim all "normal" men do are "not normal". You would simply accept the FACT that not every woman is the same. You would accept the FACT that not all of us subject our husbands to sexless marriages, whether we are 20 or 60 years old. You would accept the FACT that there are quite a few men in this world, and I'd go so far as to say it is fairly EQUAL in numbers, who choose to be sexless, or nearly sexless, because sex is not important to THEM. It has nothing to do with ED, or any other medical issues. It has nothing to do with him getting it elsewhere. There are, actually, men who feel about sex the same way you seem to believe the average woman does. 

Now, if you would just accept the FACT that not all women are like your wife... and the FACT that you don't know all there is to know about this subject, we might actually be able to have a decent conversation on this thread! 

To the OP: as others have stated, very well, in fact, sex doesn't have to stop. As with any other aspect of a marriage/relationship, it takes work to keep things going. You can't take things for granted, period. Doing so will build resentment on both sides... which will, effectively, kill sex as well as other aspects of the marriage.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

But are you getting any yet T2??????????????

And as Annie said, I'm going make my man beg for mercy tonight. Just reading this thread has me in the mood. Oops did I really think/say that, aren't us women supposed to be without the desire for sex?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

And here is a theory for you.......

after lots of time, talking, professional assistance I have worked out that I married my LD husband because I have a fear of infidelity. No idea where it came from as it has never happened but there you go. 

Instead of trying to work out the female gender T2 and Cee Paul (incorrectly may I add) how about doing some introspection and ask yourselves why you hook up with LD women? Take some responsibility for where you are in your lives instead of lumping one gender into a completely incorrect basket. 
Are you scared of intimacy?
Are you insecure about yourselves as lovers?
Are you fearful of strong women that are sexual?
??????? there will be something there, own it.

As has been said many times here, this is not a gender specific issue and while you continue on with the outdated notion that men are HD and women are LD then you won't be getting laid much in the near furture. Both genders have HD/LD and everything in between.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Holland said:


> And here is a theory for you.......
> 
> after lots of time, talking, professional assistance I have worked out that I married my LD husband because I have a fear of infidelity. No idea where it came from as it has never happened but there you go.
> 
> ...


ITA. They need to own their stuff, straight up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> ..You're acting like there are only two categories: men who love sex and women who hate it. THAT is NOT reality. It's just your perception based on your very unfortunate sexless marriage.


:iagree::smthumbup: That is very logical. Also, there are no argument that sexless marriage does exist. Maybe the poin that Mr. Trying2 was trying to make is that there are more men suffering from sexless marriage than women.. But then this becomes a statistical question with so many variables, not easily answered.



> I hope that your wife either wakes up, or you do so you can actually experience what life is like with a woman who can't get enough of your body.


I second that, amein!


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> :rofl:
> 
> I don't believe women are equal at everything. Both sexes have their own set of strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> ...


:iagree::smthumbup: Very logical, makes a lot of sense. And the words in Bold should be investigated further by psychologists, sociologists and marriage counsellors, to find the cure for high divorce rates.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Created2Write;3147081..Now said:


> should[/i] desire each other, and if they don't, I think there are issues. Every one deserves to be with someone who desires them sexually...


Very well said C2W. I could see the seeds of your next book in this statement alone


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> DH and I have had sex in various public places. I masturbated in the bathroom at college on way more than one occasion. I've masturbated in the bathrooms on restaurants. I've masturbated in the car behind a store.
> 
> Those are all I can think of at the moment, but yeah. I've had sex and masturbated in some pretty odd places.


I love to hear stuff like that and like I said there are exceptions to the rule - and you sound like one of them.

And yes different women do have different sex drives and take for instance my ex that I mentioned who loooved sex; and all it would take for her is to make out heavily for a few minutes and lightly twist her nipples, and she would then get instantly horny and wet and would wanna jump your bones anywhere in the house. But with my current wife and with a few ex-girlfriends there has to be lots and lots of foreplay with soft music, lubrication oils, and candles lit and all of that stuff, and they're only in the mood every once in awhile at best with all of the planets & stars aligned that night.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> And yes different women do have different sex drives and take for instance my ex that I mentioned who loooved sex; and all it would take for her is to make out heavily for a few minutes and lightly twist her nipples, and she would then get instantly horny and wet and would wanna jump your bones anywhere in the house


The problem, Cee Paul, is that when you mentioned her before, you made it seem like the only reason she liked sex so much was because she was a mental case. And, that was also a seeming validation to what T2FIO was saying. What we are saying is you can't box the entire female population into this tiny corner because you have yet to meet a "normal" woman who feels about sex the way we ladies have stated we feel. We are not as abnormal as some would like to try to make us feel. Really, implying such is becoming a tired argument. There is no reason for not acknowledging that we are just as normal as those who have low/no drive.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> The problem, Cee Paul, is that when you mentioned her before, you made it seem like the only reason she liked sex so much was because she was a mental case. And, that was also a seeming validation to what T2FIO was saying. What we are saying is you can't box the entire female population into this tiny corner because you have yet to meet a "normal" woman who feels about sex the way we ladies have stated we feel. We are not as abnormal as some would like to try to make us feel. Really, implying such is becoming a tired argument. There is no reason for not acknowledging that we are just as normal as those who have low/no drive.


I just meant that was the reason in "her" case but that most women I have come across aren't like her, and neither are most of the other women that I hear my male family members - friends - neighbors - and co-workers talk about either(and yes we men do gossip too).


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I just meant that was the reason in "her" case but that most women I have come across aren't like her, and neither are most of the other women that I hear my male family members - friends - neighbors - and co-workers talk about either(and yes we men do gossip too).


Maybe that (finding LD women) has something to do with you? Most of the women I know are pretty much similar to my drive.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

techmom said:


> ITA. They need to own their stuff, straight up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes they do as we all do. Simply blaming the other gender is an immature point of view.

Taking ownership for our own issues and what we did to contribute to where we are in life is a very difficult thing to do, far easier to blame everyone else.
But once you do take ownership you are set free to really find out who you are, at that point you are in a much better place to find a truly compatible person.

I did it, it was extremely challenging but the reward is pure bliss.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Maybe that (finding LD women) has something to do with you? Most of the women I know are pretty much similar to my drive.


Doubt it since I am horny quite a bit, and I can be very sweet & romantic when I want to and know my way around the bedroom.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> And here is a theory for you.......
> 
> after lots of time, talking, professional assistance I have worked out that I married my LD husband because I have a fear of infidelity. No idea where it came from as it has never happened but there you go.
> 
> ...


Speaking of myself yes I did a deep introspection.... I understand my part in my situation and I own it.

Now ladies... why argue facts?

20 to 30 percent of men and *30 to 50 percent of women *say they have little or no sex drive.

So that shows where the difference exists. Women on average have a population roughly 20 % higher that are not into sex that's absolutely an indicator of drive...that's a difference...embrace it.

You HD females are trying to pigeon hole your entire gender as equally sexual to men...that is impossible to support with any facts....just look at the biological differences.

When will you all wake up to reality that High Desire/male desire is not the normal state of the average female regardless of what you think. It may be during the dating process but afterwards the real drive surfaces.

Congrats to those females here who convinced themselves otherwise...I'm sure your husband/SO enjoy it as long as you remain desirable.

Sex drive difference is most likely the #1 reason sex will stop in the marriage.... there is not a whole lot we can do about it other than convince the average female they need to own the fact they have less desire than their partner on average and out think it for the reason of supporting the marriage fully...basically suck it up and meet in the middle. Come meet some way rather than no way.

I can guarantee that the average sexless male did nothing so wrong.... its the woman looking for a reason to achieve their lower drive or resent their husband. They justify their position to support the fact they just aren't into sex.

You can argue... but its like arguing what color the sky is I say blue you say grey..... the average person says blue. Its blue...clouds are grey. Open your mind to the reality I am absolutely correct.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Keep telling yourself that. It's sad because it you actually listened to what we were saying, you might have a chance at learning how to effectively seduce your wife and REALLY end your sexless marriage. But the more you tout these absurd ideas about women and sex, the more ridiculous you sound. If my husband were to ever say half the things you have, I wouldn't dream of having sex with him. I'd leave him and find a man who appreciated my sexual desire, and didn't try to make light of it. I thought it was telling that you never answered Holland's question about whether or not you are getting any sex in your marriage. WE are with our husbands. So it really is ridiculous to keep insisting that we aren't normal or average because even if you were right, WE are the ones who actually have a sex life. Perhaps that's why you're so convinced that you're right? You can't beat us at how often you're having sex, so instead you argue supposed facts about female sexuality.

And for the record, no one said a woman's drive is exactly the same as a man's... just that it can be as high.

Oh, and hats off to you ladies! Some great posts were made!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

In addition to the apparent sex fiend tam ladies lol 

there are these ladies:

Sex Confessions: 13 Women Who Want Sex More Than Their Male Partners Share Their Stories


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

C2W - but he has a PLAN!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes a lot of great posts were made Created, ITA.

As time marches on and as those "shame shackles" fall off women's ankles for having and wanting sex, the more the general opinion will change as people of both genders see women claim their sexual nature and stand up for it.

I am happy when a really young wife like you is so outspoken about being sexual. Your voice will help other young wives speak out, too.

One thing that (I don't think) was brought up on this thread (unless I missed it) is that people who were sexually abused as children typically have dysfunctional sex lives...and I think they estimate as many as one in four kids (both genders but more girls are reported) have been...therefore, one in four adults' are going to have some troubles with sex in their lifetimes.

If we wanted to get a real average of real female sex drive, we'd have to discount a quarter of all women just because we know those sex drives have been tainted by trauma and therefore don't represent how a woman's sex drive matures in the absence of sexual abuse.

Then we'd have to discount very high and very low hormonal (medical) issues, because we know those also affect sex drive. I am sure not as many as one in four but some percentage of the population has medical issues that affect sex drive.

Then we'd have to deduct the women who are on SSRIs, as they are known sexual inhibitors.

If we deduct those three types of women from the sample data, IMO we'd get a clearer picture of how an average woman who does NOT suffer from issues that cause sexual dysfunction feels. In my personal studies and polls, I've found that the women with higher drives tended on average to be the ones who were not shamed, molested or hormonally challenged. The ones who were allowed to mature on their own time and in a natural way are the ones who seem to be more openly sexual. Would you say that desribes yourself?

I also don't mean that a woman who does have abuse in her past or some medical issues can't be highly sexual, too...just that sometimes they aren't able to freely move past the things that were outside of their control.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

So to re-cap sex does not have to stop in a marriage BECAUSE a woman just needs to have her sexuality awakened at which point it will be equal or exceed that of the average male...

Got it.

So OP just do that..these women have all the answers.

Not sure why this forum even exists its so dang easy.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Y The ones who were allowed to mature on their own time and in a natural way are the ones who seem to be more openly sexual. Would you say that describes yourself?
> 
> I also don't mean that a woman who does have abuse in her past or some medical issues can't be highly sexual, too...just that sometimes they aren't able to freely move past the things that were outside of their control.


I had it all thrown at me.Abuse,serious medical issues resulting in the loss of my uterus,I've been cheated on multiple times,didn't orgasm til early twenties,etc.

You go to therapy and you find a way to heal.Then you get busy.Sex becomes a need after you've found a man who deserves you.
Thought I was broken and unable to want sex for a while.

Turns out I was fine but I was picking the wrong partners.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes a lot of great posts were made Created, ITA.
> 
> As time marches on and as those "shame shackles" fall off women's ankles for having and wanting sex, the more the general opinion will change as people of both genders see women claim their sexual nature and stand up for it.
> 
> ...


So if the prerequisites are all met a woman may enjoy sex... got it


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I had it all thrown at me.Abuse,serious medical issues resulting in the loss of my uterus,I've been cheated on multiple times,didn't orgasm til early twenties,etc.
> 
> You go to therapy and you find a way to heal.Then you get busy.Sex becomes a need after you've found a man who deserves you.
> Thought I was broken and unable to want sex for a while.
> ...


And men will still hit it. Female in a relationship with him lets go. Lets orgasm.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> And men will still hit it.


:scratchhead:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes SB...it may or may not "ruin" a woman's sex life.

But we do know it causes sexual dysfunction in many women, so I was just saying that if we wanted to know how a woman's sex drive is naturally, we'd have to take consider women who have been handled in an unnatural way will tend to have sexual dysfunction.

Women who never experienced any abuse or illness can sometimes have a very low sex drive, and women who have been abused or had illnesses can have a very HIGH sex drive.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

T2....um yeah, "pre-requisites" like not being molested as children.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

T2 said: "And men will still hit it. Female in a relationship lets go."


Are you not aware that men who were sexually molested as children will also tend to be sexually dysfunctional?

Are you aware of any sitch that isn't your own?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> T2....um yeah, "pre-requisites" like not being molested as children.


Men get molested too as kids...*and get over it*. I was molested twice. I chalk it up to I was young and it was out of my control move on. My sex drive is fine. Because of my male drive for sex.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes they do and it causes dysfunction T2.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Part of what is so irritating about you T2 is that you seem to think ALL men want lots of sex and none of them are ever affected by outside issues....just sex all day all the time....that's all they are just sexy sex machines.

Apparently you don't get out much.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Part of what is so irritating about you T2 is that you seem to think ALL men want lots of sex and none of them are ever affected by outside issues....just sex all day all the time....that's all they are just sexy sex machines.
> 
> Apparently you don't get out much.


You are stating the obvious..men do think of sex and want lots of sex..they just need a willing female.

Sex is a #1 or #2 need of just about EVERY man on the planet.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Did you read the article SB posted?

No?

Because you know everything...ALL men want sex ALL the time, they NEVER have any dysfunction, right?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Did you read the article SB posted?
> 
> No?
> 
> Because you know everything...ALL men want sex ALL the time, they NEVER have any dysfunction, right?


On average YES


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And on average, YES women want sex that much, too.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> That...flew over your head.
> 
> FW is saying that men have fluctuations in their drive for many reasons as well, not just affairs and medical conditions like you are positing.



Most sexless marriages the primary reason for a male to initiate one is embarrassment over performance (Medical) or they found another outlet (Cheating,Porn) or they are holding a grudge.

There aren't a whole lot of other reasons.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> And on average, YES women want sex that much, too.


I disagree.

Women want emotional connection that much on average (affection) not necessarily SEX


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

My husband and I both have have been on both ends of this extreme in our lifetimes....I don't know that I agree that it is a gender thing....having a HD /LD mix sucks either way you mix it. Hypothetically ... if we are all born with basically the same biologically correct male and female bodies and barring these bodies don't have have any medical issue that cause them to have low libido than the only thing left that could alter their libido would be emotional or enviornmental factors adversely affecting their libido right? I have a feeling that most issues with LD are emotional and enviornmental influences...ie something or someone in your enviornment is impacting you and that is adversly driving your libido down. Just a thought....if people would be honest with themselves they usually know why they have a low sex drive if it is emotional or environmental.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

T2..."you disagree"...doesn't make it so.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

_"And for the record, no one said a woman's drive is exactly the same as a man's... just that it can be as high."_

Agree 100% and fully understand that there are several women that have a high sex drive. But if you lined up 10 women of various ages you'd find that mayyybe two of them would be the horny frogs that men are, who love sex often or love to masturbate a few times a week every week when not having sex with their man(or lesbian lover).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Elliott said:


> I know it's been asked a million times, but really think about it.
> 
> Why does sex have to stop when you're married? When I was dating my wife, I couldn't keep my hands off of her.


Because you stopped dating her.

Marriage doesn't preclude you dating her still. It's the romance, the novelty, the spontaneity that makes you frisky. Most people give that all up when they get married, to the detriment of their sex life. Harley recommends you spend 15 hours a week together away from kids, chores, and other dutes - precisely SO you can keep the affection and love alive. Are you doing that?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Women want emotional connection that much on average (affection) not necessarily SEX


 Yep.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

I really feel sorry for T2. His situation is so bad, and he should have left years ago, but he can't do it. And he has to convince himself that his dysfunctional wife is the same as all women to justify staying and continuing to fight a losing battle.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I really feel sorry for T2. His situation is so bad, and he should have left years ago, but he can't do it. And he has to convince himself that his dysfunctional wife is the same as all women to justify staying and continuing to fight a losing battle.


We have to take his word for the fact that his wife is dysfunctional. After reading this thread and other posts by him, I'm not so sure I'm willing to accept his word at face value. It would be interesting to talk to Mrs. T2.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Most sexless marriages the primary reason for a male to initiate one is embarrassment over performance (Medical) or they found another outlet (Cheating,Porn) or they are holding a grudge.
> 
> There aren't a whole lot of other reasons.


Low testosterone levels
Physical injuries
Emotional issues

The list goes on and on - just because you're ignorant of them doesn't mean they're not real.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

why dose sex stop after marriage?

good question and there are lots of reason but I believe the true question is why dose it stop when there are no underling issues.

tha answer is because you let it.


at the start of being rejected you need to put you foot down and say hey I want out if you don't want to bang me anymore and mean it. which means if they continue to behave poorly(rejecting) then leave the relationship.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

trying2figureitout said:


> you are stating the obvious..men do think of sex and want lots of sex..they just need a willing female.
> 
> Sex is a #1 or #2 need of just about every man on the planet.


not true


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> why dose sex stop after marriage?
> 
> good question and there are lots of reason but I believe the true question is why dose it stop when there are no underling issues.
> 
> ...


I would have to say that probably 99% of the women out there would give you the boot if you came off anything like that. :rofl:


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## Jakobi Greenleaf (Sep 19, 2012)

*Re: Re: Why does sex have to stop in a marraige?*



Holland said:


> not true


I agree. I'm a male, and I live on this planet. For me sex would be number 2 on my list. However, I have a friend where I am pretty confident that sex doesn't make the top ten at all. He said he had slept around enough when he was younger, and no longer needed sex. He is a little younger than I am, and has essentially no interest in sex. Kinda invalidates your theory.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> I would have to say that probably 99% of the women out there would give you the boot if you came off anything like that. :rofl:


we will have to agree to disagree then.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> I would have to say that probably 99% of the women out there would give you the boot if you came off anything like that. :rofl:


and it really wouldn't matter because in reality you gave her the boot. I expect my wife to desire me sexually. and be a willing equal partner in my marriage. and if she isn't on the same page then its best to part ways.

I'm not saying to be a neanderthal about .....well I guess I am saying that alittle.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

TCSRedhead said:


> C2W - but he has a PLAN!


I have a plan to own a large house someday. Will that plan ever be a reality if I don't appreciate my opportunity to work and really try the best that I can?


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## blubyewe (Jul 18, 2013)

Last week when I wasn't speaking to you or anyone, I was sad and depressed. I could not speak. 

Our Marriage has, from the beginning been without significant physical connection as you know. I think you read that as "sex." but look again. there are no warm touches, You do not put your arm around me. In bed you get as far away as possible with your back to me. In the evening you avoid me and hope I go to seep before you do so there is not the chance of any overtures being made. I know this is so because you laughed in acknowledgement when I mentioned this pattern to you. You have rubbed my back a handful of times over 15 years. You say that you like it when I rub your back. Don't you think I might that too? 

I experience this as indifferent, unkind, possibly withholding; evidence that you really want to have nothing to do with me physically. Is there some other interpretation that I am missing? When I say this to you directly you can not correct me. "No I really do..." "I am attracted..." All you say Is that any touch can lead to sex and that is undesirable for you. Therefore you will not. Even on Monday nights you will lay there or talk indefinitely until I make some move. So, even on a night where we are scheduled to have sex, you will not reach out... show affection. This directly contradicts what you have always maintained... touch leads to sex and that is why I avoid it. There is something else going on.

Imagine how this has effected our marriage and our family over the years. Our home is not a comfortable warm relaxed and loving place. There are chronic resentments. We are the architects of that! You don't do for me and I don't do for you. It is a snowball effect. The result is, we have very little to do with each other. We are in each other's presence but not connected. There is an underlying unhelpfulness, unresponsiveness, disinterest, anger. Is it any wonder when we ask something of our kids... "Not mine... No thanks... Ignore...Argue... Talk back..." Just like us.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Yes a lot of great posts were made Created, ITA.
> 
> As time marches on and as those "shame shackles" fall off women's ankles for having and wanting sex, the more the general opinion will change as people of both genders see women claim their sexual nature and stand up for it.
> 
> ...


I would say that described me perfectly. My parents shielded me from sex ed(something I don't think I'll do with my kids), and as a result I was a bit too ignorant, but that was only because my parents thought that certain things were...well, obvious. They weren't trying to keep me ignorant, which made a difference. But yes, I did mature naturally. I even remember being sixteen and making out with a guy...it was the most awkward thing ever. I did NOT enjoy it. There was no spark, there was no desire in me, I wasn't aroused, I didn't even like the plain act of kissing. 

Jump ahead three years and BAM! Just cuddling on the couch(different guy), without making out, turned me on. I think who the guys were made a bit of a difference too...Looking back I can tell that the first guy just didn't know how to kiss. Top Rammen breath isn't exactly the sexiest thing in the world. Bleh. My husband IS a great kisser, but I think it helps too when the body actually responds to the affection being displayed. Mine just wasn't there at sixteen. 

Infact, the older I get, the more aware I become of my sexuality. I like who I am sexually.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

blubyewe said:


> All you say Is that any touch can lead to sex and that is undesirable for you. Therefore you will not.


This is more common than many men think.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> and it really wouldn't matter because in reality you gave her the boot. I expect my wife to desire me sexually. and be a willing equal partner in my marriage. and if she isn't on the same page then its best to part ways.
> 
> I'm not saying to be a neanderthal about .....well I guess I am saying that alittle.


I see you either - a) growing old alone or b) having a woman who is verrrrrrrrrry understanding or has very low self esteem.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> _"And for the record, no one said a woman's drive is exactly the same as a man's... just that it can be as high."_
> 
> Agree 100% and fully understand that there are several women that have a high sex drive. But if you lined up 10 women of various ages you'd find that mayyybe two of them would be the horny frogs that men are, who love sex often or love to masturbate a few times a week every week when not having sex with their man(or lesbian lover).


I disagree. Statistics show that anywhere from 30% to 50% of women claim to have little or no desire for sex...but that still means that 50% to 70% of women _are_ enjoying sex...which would mean that 5 to 7 of those 10 women would have active desires for sex. How many of those 5 o 7 have high sexual drives? That would need another study and, frankly, there are a TON of articles on google about men, women and their sex drives. Many psychologists, researchers and analysts have concluded that women DO want sex, often just as much, if not more, than men. It's just unpopular to hear that being said because television and society continue to buy into the notion that women just aren't as sexual. 

I think we are _just_ as sexual, but I don't think our sexuality is the same. Biologically we are different...women produce more estrogen and less testosterone in men, but that alone doesn't mean that we are hardwired to want sex less...just that we're hardwired to have different arousal triggers, and that are bodies respond differently than men's. I think, both, men and women find a deep emotional connection through sex, and I don't think that women "need" an emotional connection before they can open themselves up sexually. I think that some women reserve sex for dedicated and monogamous relationships, but that's a person choice, not one dictated to them by their gender. 

I think, if our society stopped playing into the idea that it's normal for a wife to want sex less, then a lot of marriages would begin to improve because more women would feel free to embrace their sexuality.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I see you either - a) growing old alone or b) having a woman who is verrrrrrrrrry understanding or has very low self esteem.


Really? I see him married to a woman who matches him in this. I see him married to a woman his equal. I see him...well, happy. But what do I know? I am, just like everyone else, going by my own experiences. And, really, that last statement about saying you see him with a woman who has very low self esteem is a low blow, and uncalled for.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

You don't think very highly of women do you Cee Paul? For the record, if my husband started withholding sex from me, I would say exactly what chilly posted: put out, or get out. Just because I said "I do" doesn't mean I won't eventually say "I don't" if my needs are constantly ignored. And sex absolutely is a need for me, as is verbal and physical affection. A marriage can't be sustained with one person feeling like they're adrift in the ocean, and the other person has the means to help them, and they refuse to do so. At that point, the choice has been made...the marriage just isn't important. And I know my husband would say the same to me, and he would be right to do so.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Really? I see him married to a woman who matches him in this. I see him married to a woman his equal. I see him...well, happy. But what do I know? I am, just like everyone else, going by my own experiences. And, really, that last statement about saying you see him with a woman who has very low self esteem is a low blow, and uncalled for.


I agree. A woman who plays an equal part in her marriage and desires her husband = a woman who has low self esteem? 

I'm starting to really wonder how men develop these views of women...schools should teach more on this subject because, clearly, there are a lot of families doing it wrong.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

maybe men who don't voice their needs and hold their wives accountable have low selfesteem.

just sayin!!!!!!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> maybe men who don't voice their needs and hold their wives accountable have low selfesteem.
> 
> just sayin!!!!!!


:iagree:


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> You don't think very highly of women do you Cee Paul? For the record, if my husband started withholding sex from me, I would say exactly what chilly posted: put out, or get out. Just because I said "I do" doesn't mean I won't eventually say "I don't" if my needs are constantly ignored. And sex absolutely is a need for me, as is verbal and physical affection. A marriage can't be sustained with one person feeling like they're adrift in the ocean, and the other person has the means to help them, and they refuse to do so. At that point, the choice has been made...the marriage just isn't important. And I know my husband would say the same to me, and he would be right to do so.


So talking to a woman like a freakin dog("put out or get out")would be considered thinking more highly of women? I have a deep understanding of women because I've always been around them(4 sisters I'm close with and 2 marriages). So I am actually very respectful of them and if my wife says she's not in the mood because of a low sex drive or whatever, and I grunt like a caveman and give her some sort of sexual ultimatum, she's going to tell me to gather my stuff and get the hell out.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

You know, there are a lot of men on this forum who truly are in some horrible predicaments: the one husband who has a daughter who is autistic, I think, and yet he's in a sexless marriage and is torn between finding happiness and being separated from his daughter...other men who have tried and tried and tried for years to solve the sexless issue, and who really want to make things work with their wives, but they have wives who don't think the marriage needs fixing...and the men who are in sexless relationships, but attest to the rest of the relationship being fantastic and so they stay for the rest of it...and the men who have wives who _were_ abused and haven't healed or are still healing, and so their sexual relationship is low; all of those men I really feel for, because they are faced with SUCH difficult situations. They may come across as bitter sometimes, but for the most part they seem to have a well-rounded view of women as a whole, and they realize that their wife doesn't define women as an entire gender. I feel for them. And I really, and truly, wish for them a restored marriage first, and if that isn't possible, a new relationship with a woman who recognizes the importance of sex, and not just for the man, but for her too.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> You know, there are a lot of men on this forum who truly are in some horrible predicaments: the one husband who has a daughter who is autistic, I think, and yet he's in a sexless marriage and is torn between finding happiness and being separated from his daughter...other men who have tried and tried and tried for years to solve the sexless issue, and who really want to make things work with their wives, but they have wives who don't think the marriage needs fixing...and the men who are in sexless relationships, but attest to the rest of the relationship being fantastic and so they stay for the rest of it...and the men who have wives who _were_ abused and haven't healed or are still healing, and so their sexual relationship is low; all of those men I really feel for, because they are faced with SUCH difficult situations. They may come across as bitter sometimes, but for the most part they seem to have a well-rounded view of women as a whole, and they realize that their wife doesn't define women as an entire gender. I feel for them. And I really, and truly, wish for them a restored marriage first, and if that isn't possible, a new relationship with a woman who recognizes the importance of sex, and not just for the man, but for her too.


You're entitled to your opinion of me even if it's 1,000% wrong.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> So talking to a woman like a freakin dog("put out or get out")would be considered thinking more highly of women?


I think that was forum shorthand for a longer, healthier conversation, don't you?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> So talking to a woman like a freakin dog("put out or get out")would be considered thinking more highly of women? I have a deep understanding of women because I've always been around them(4 sisters I'm close with and 2 marriages). So I am actually very respectful of them and if my wife says she's not in the mood because of a low sex drive or whatever, and I grunt like a caveman and give her some sort of sexual ultimatum, she's going to tell me to gather my stuff and get the hell out.


It's not that the man is going to pull the caveman grunt while telling her to put out or get out.
It's about healthy expression of needs and expectations.You can express your needs and communicate that you expect them to be met without being a grunting disrespectful caveman.

If your wife tells you to gtfo after you've expressed that you need physical bonding time with her then she is no better than the disrespectful caveman you described.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> So talking to a woman like a freakin dog("put out or get out")would be considered thinking more highly of women? I have a deep understanding of women because I've always been around them(4 sisters I'm close with and 2 marriages). So I am actually very respectful of them and if my wife says she's not in the mood because of a low sex drive or whatever, and I grunt like a caveman and give her some sort of sexual ultimatum, she's going to tell me to gather my stuff and get the hell out.


You're joking, right? That is seriously what you took from the post? That's not what was being said at all. She said that if it was a CONTINUOUS action. We can all understand the occasional not being in the mood. But when it drops off suddenly, whether as soon as the ink is dry or a few years later, with no explanation but "I just don't want to", that's not healthy for the marriage. If there is no COMMUNICATION from either party, that's not healthy either. The sentiment expressed was "put out or get out", but it's more like "we need to get this figured out, because the current dynamic is NOT working." I'm fairly certain that you could figure that out.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> You're entitled to your opinion of me even if it's 1,000% wrong.


All we have to go by is what you post here.... so, if we're 1,000% wrong, then you are misrepresenting yourself here.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> So talking to a woman like a freakin dog("put out or get out")would be considered thinking more highly of women? I have a deep understanding of women because I've always been around them(4 sisters I'm close with and 2 marriages). So I am actually very respectful of them and if my wife says she's not in the mood because of a low sex drive or whatever, and I grunt like a caveman and give her some sort of sexual ultimatum, she's going to tell me to gather my stuff and get the hell out.


  I have had a few mellow conversations with my husband about neglect, and if, now, he decided that he just wasn't going to make my needs important anymore, that's absolutely what he would hear. Just like, if he had had a few mellow conversations with me about rejecting sex and I still ignored his needs, I would expect to hear that too. But, I'm a very blunt and direct woman. I appreciate the reality of how people really feel. I don't think my husband would ever actually say "Put out or get out"(which would be a pity...cause that amount of directness would be a major turn on), but it's exactly what I would expect to hear. It may seem harsh to you. Oh well. Neglect is something I won't tolerate, and if my needs are constantly neglected, whether intentional or not, at some point the foot is coming down.

You seem to think that there are only two situations: a man who will be "respectful" and put up with neglect, or a man who "treats his wife like a freaking dog" by holding her accountable. The "Put out or get out" was my personal choice of words. And, frankly, if someone has gone so far as to neglect their spouses needs, they deserve a *figurative* smack upside the head. No one should feel that their only option left is to file for a divorce. Everyone deserves to feel wanted and desired by their spouse, and to feel that way our needs must be taken seriously and made a priority.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> You're entitled to your opinion of me even if it's 1,000% wrong.


Where, exactly, did I mention _you?_ And, as Maricha said, I can only go off of the way you present yourself. And you seem to have a horrible view of women. Your comments have been entirely sarcastic and insulting, and I don't care if you had for sisters or not. It doesn't mean anything with the way you've been responding.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Wow...just went and read some of the threads you've started Cee Paul. According to you, women don't have as high of sex drives as men(even though you didn't offer any proof of the statement), women don't like looking at a man's naked body because it isn't a priority(again, no proof), and that women make things like laundry, bills, kids and buying shoes more of a priority in their lives. 

You don't understand women at all. I hope that you don't see your own wife that way, at least.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

AnnieAsh said:


> Why would we need to do that? Finding sex as a female is so easy it is shameful.


 Why?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Wow...just went and read some of the threads you've started Cee Paul. According to you, women don't have as high of sex drives as men(even though you didn't offer any proof of the statement), *women don't like looking at a man's naked body because it isn't a priority(again, no proof),* and that women make things like laundry, bills, kids and buying shoes more of a priority in their lives.
> 
> You don't understand women at all. I hope that you don't see your own wife that way, at least.


OMG where do people get these ideas? 

Seeing Mr H naked is one of the highlights of my day. Who could think of laundry or bills when such a sexy man is standing there, tall, broad, legs made of steel. And oh my when he gets his gear off and he has a raging hard on, well I should stop now.......


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Holland said:


> And oh my when he gets his gear off and he has a raging hard on, well I should stop now.......


Having my naked, aroused husband in front of me waiting for pleasure is a ridiculous turn on for me. Just thinking about him that way gets distracting at work.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ocotillo....You can't make that into something having to do with sex drive. It just doesn't compute. Men can hit it and get off in an under 2 minutes and that's why it is easy for a woman to "get sex"....because what she would be offered by some dude on a street corner would be a romp behind a dumpster. Um, no thanks.

But a woman can't hit it and get off like that. However that doesn't mean she would not do it IF SHE COULD. I personally know some women who DO hit it and get off and yes they do take those opportunities! I'm not like that. I actually need to be warmed up. Just because I need to be warmed up and would turn down "free sex" if it meant just a quickie with a stranger does NOT mean my sex drive isn't as high as a man's or higher than many men.

Besides...If you are a man who is 6'3" or taller, good looking, lots of muscle and a full head of hair, it is also so easy to get sex it is shameful. I'm married to a man like that, that's how I know. He could walk out on the street and get sex in 10 minutes or less. Believe it or not, this is the reality for SOME MEN.

So again...your point can't be construed to have anything to do with sex drive.

Also by the way...if you do happen to be the type of man who finds it so easy to get sex it is shameful, then you also find out first hand just HOW sexual women are...and not just on the fringe of society or anything like that. I'm talking about the normal average woman you work next to or see in a grocery store. They are EVERYWHERE.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

TCSRedhead said:


> Having my naked, aroused husband in front of me waiting for pleasure is a ridiculous turn on for me. Just thinking about him that way gets distracting at work.


Wow.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

treyvion....are you saying you are STILL shocked to hear a woman make such a statement?

Have you been paying attention at all?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Having my naked, aroused husband in front of me waiting for pleasure is a ridiculous turn on for me. Just thinking about him that way gets distracting at work.


Yeah well my day has gone to pot now. Focus, focus, focus.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> Why?


Because they didn't even make me buy them dinner first!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I was working the register at the drive thru, and one of my assistant managers said something about sexual tension and I was immediately distracted with thoughts of my husband and I last night. Naked, aroused, loud, hard...I almost gave the customer back more money than they payed me. 

Yeah. I want sex. I love sex. I need sex. And don't get me started on my husband's naked body. There isn't a single thing in this world I like seeing more.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

I grope my husband constantly. We are guilty of getting frisky behind clothing racks, because I can't keep hands off him. I like it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Oh dear, just got a txt from Mr H, something to do with tying me up and licking my whole body. Just going to write today off and live in dream land, everything else can wait.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Why do people accept the sex stopping in a marriage? :scratchhead:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> treyvion....are you saying you are STILL shocked to hear a woman make such a statement?
> 
> Have you been paying attention at all?


No. I know it exists. It's a turnon to hear about it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Go for it Holland!  Love reading your posts!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Just a note about biology and sex drive...have you heard about bonobos? Here's a clip from the intro of a book on them:

"This remarkable primate with the curious name is challenging established views on human evolution. The bonobo, least known of the great apes, is a female-centered, egalitarian species that has been dubbed the "make-love-not-war" primate by specialists. In bonobo society, females form alliances to intimidate males, sexual behavior (in virtually every partner combination) replaces aggression and serves many social functions, and unrelated groups mingle instead of fighting. The species's most striking achievement is not tool use or warfare but sensitivity to others.

In the first book to combine and compare data from captivity and the field, Frans de Waal, a world-renowned primatologist, and Frans Lanting, an internationally acclaimed wildlife photographer, present the most up-to-date perspective available on the bonobo. Focusing on social organization, de Waal compares the bonobo with its better-known relative, the chimpanzee. The bonobo's relatively nonviolent behavior and the tendency for females to dominate males confront the evolutionary models derived from observing the chimpanzee's male power politics, cooperative hunting, and intergroup warfare. Further, the bonobo's frequent, imaginative sexual contacts, along with its low reproduction rate, belie any notion that the sole natural purpose of sex is procreation. Humans share over 98 percent of their genetic material with the bonobo and the chimpanzee. Is it possible that the peaceable bonobo has retained traits of our common ancestor that we find hard to recognize in ourselves?"

(end quote)

Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape: Frans B. M. de Waal, Frans Lanting: 9780520216518: Amazon.com: Books

And here's some from wikipedia:

Sexual activity generally plays a major role in bonobo society, being used as what some scientists perceive as a greeting, a means of forming social bonds, a means of conflict resolution, and postconflict reconciliation.[35] Bonobos are the only non-human animal to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (though a pair of western gorillas has been photographed performing face-to-face genital sex[36]), tongue kissing, and oral sex.[37]
Bonobos do not form permanent monogamous sexual relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by sex or age, with the possible exception of abstaining from sexual activity between mothers and their adult sons. 

When bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, presumably decreasing tension and encouraging peaceful feeding.[38]

Bonobo clitorises are larger and more externalized than in most mammals;[39] while the weight of a young adolescent female bonobo "is maybe half" that of a human teenager, she has a clitoris that is "three times bigger than the human equivalent, and visible enough to waggle unmistakably as she walks".[40] In scientific literature, the female–female behavior of pressing genitals together is often referred to as genital-genital (GG) rubbing, which is the non-human form of tribadism that human females engage in. This sexual activity happens within the immediate female bonobo community and sometimes outside of it. Female bonobos rub their clitorises together rapidly for ten to twenty seconds, and this behavior, "which may be repeated in rapid succession, is usually accompanied by grinding, shrieking, and clitoral engorgement"; it is estimated that they engage in this practice "about once every two hours" on average.[39] Because bonobos, like humans, mate face-to-face, "evolutionary biologist Marlene Zuk has suggested that the position of the clitoris in bonobos and some other primates has evolved to maximize stimulation during sexual intercourse".[39]

(end quote)

I'm just putting this here because there had been some talk that something to do with biology made it a "fact" that females are never, ever as sexual on average as males, anywhere in nature.

Oh look! The species that is closest to us in genetics has horny females!


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Wow...just went and read some of the threads you've started Cee Paul. According to you, women don't have as high of sex drives as men(even though you didn't offer any proof of the statement), women don't like looking at a man's naked body because it isn't a priority(again, no proof), and that women make things like laundry, bills, kids and buying shoes more of a priority in their lives.
> 
> You don't understand women at all. I hope that you don't see your own wife that way, at least.


Well then in my "opinion" of what you & a few others have said and the way you just represented yourselves, you and those others don't really understand men. And you act like it was ME who invented this theory and ME who created the "not tonight honey I have a headache" line, that has been around since the 1950's on shows like I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners before I was even freakin born. So I am just going by my personal experiences, experiences from people that I know, people that come on all of these Dr. Phil and Oprah type shows and say these things, and the many many guys on here who also say their wives have cut them off or aren't into sex very much! So excuuuuse the hell out of me for just echoing all of these thousands of other sentiments that I hear from other men, and for my own personal experiences where I noticed the exact same things going on!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Well then in my "opinion" of what you & a few others have said and the way you just represented yourselves, you and those others don't really understand men. And you act like it was ME who invented this theory and ME who created the "not tonight honey I have a headache" line, that has been around since the 1950's on shows like I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners before I was even freakin born. So I am just going by my personal experiences, experiences from people that I know, people that come on all of these Dr. Phil and Oprah type shows and say these things, and the many many guys on here who also say their wives have cut them off or aren't into sex very much! So excuuuuse the hell out of me for just echoing all of these thousands of other sentiments that I hear from other men, and for my own personal experiences where I noticed the exact same things going on!


You have missed the not so subtle context of the last few pages. Yes we know that there are women that are LD and that sadly many men are not sharing a good sex life with their partners.

The message is though that just because some women are not into sex does not in any way mean that ALL or even MOST women do not like sex.

Just as it is also untrue that ALL men like sex and want it regularly. 

It is not a gender specific issue.

Instead of listening to crap TV shows how about opening your mind to the reality that us real life women are telling the world about.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> You have missed the not so subtle context of the last few pages. Yes we know that there are women that are LD and that sadly many men are not sharing a good sex life with their partners.
> 
> The message is though that just because some women are not into sex does not in any way mean that ALL or even MOST women do not like sex.
> 
> ...


First off those "crap tv shows" do contain actual _human beings_ who are drawing off of common experiences that are happening everywhere & sharing them, and wether it's presented in the form of a punchline or from a divorced man sitting on Dr Phil's couch the common theme is still the same. 

And again for the 3rd time in this thread I understand that not "all" women are like that, but there must be quite a few of them out there for this to be such a popular sentiment amongst that many guys on message boards, tv shows, social groups, or wherever.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

sex stops in marriage for some reason but I don't believe the majority of cases have anything to do with lack of drive bc of biology.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Again stop the average woman on the street in her 30's on up and ask her when is the last time she's masturbated, and then stop the average guy that same age and ask him the same thing, and I guarantee the guy will have done it _twice as much_.

So what does that mean? It just means that we crave an orgasim a lot more, and it's a lot more important for us to have one wether it's with someone or taking care of it ourselves.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Again stop the average woman on the street in her 30's on up and ask her when is the last time she's masturbated, and then stop the average guy that same age and ask him the same thing, and I guarantee the guy will have done it _twice as much_.
> 
> So what does that mean? It just means that we crave an orgasim a lot more, and it's a lot more important for us to have one wether it's with someone or taking care of it ourselves.


see I agree that this will happen if you do that experiment.But what I'm unclear on and find there's no way of proving it is the WHY part.
WHY aren't these ladies more into sex? I feel like there's more to it than biology.I feel maybe 90% is a social conditioning issue and perhaps 10% biology.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> see I agree that this will happen if you do that experiment.But what I'm unclear on and find there's no way of proving it is the WHY part.
> WHY aren't these ladies more into sex? I feel like there's more to it than biology.I feel maybe 90% is a social conditioning issue and perhaps 10% biology.


This is not meant to be mean or degrading at all SB; but I think the fact that for a woman to have an orgasim it's alot more work sometimes to get there, but for a man we can have one if the wind blows the right way up our shorts.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

lol, my DH calls the basketball shorts that everyone wears now 'whip-it-out' shorts.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I think women just don't like to admit that they masterbate.

the rate of how often might be high with guys but the vast majority of all people masterbate.

so if you stop any woman on the street and ask they arn't going to give you the truth.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> This is not meant to be mean or degrading at all SB; but I think the fact that for a woman to have an orgasim it's alot more work sometimes to get there, but for a man we can have one if the wind blows the right way up our shorts.


it's not mean or degrading,it's truth for many people.
This is another confusing thing with many grey areas.Some women don't know how to orgasm.Some women need the stars and moon aligned in order for them to O. Some women are like many men who can orgasm at the stroke of their lower area.

Why is there a huge grey area here if it's about strict biology of men wanting it more bc that's how they were created?

I orgasm easier than my male partner.I can orgasm in 5 mins or less if I want to.Does that mean someone like me is a freak of nature since it isn't the norm? I dunno.That's why I still think it's mostly a social conditioning issue.An issue of women not knowing their bodies.Women being ashamed of their bodies and their reactions to touch.lots of things that go beyond biological drive reasons.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> I think women just don't like to admit that they masterbate.
> 
> the rate of how often might be high with guys but the vast majority of all people masterbate.
> 
> so if you stop any woman on the street and ask they arn't going to give you the truth.


I can see this also.We are ladies damn it and we are not supposed to admit these things lest you think we're trashy or over sexed!


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> it's not mean or degrading,it's truth for many people.
> This is another confusing thing with many grey areas.Some women don't know how to orgasm.Some women need the stars and moon aligned in order for them to O. Some women are like many men who can orgasm at the stroke of their lower area.
> 
> Why is there a huge grey area here if it's about strict biology of men wanting it more bc that's how they were created?
> ...


Yeah that's how my wife is where everything has to be a relaxed setting and involves plenty of lube, and I always "take care of her" just the way she asks but sometimes it takes her 10 minutes or so to get there. Now to me that is a lot of work and preperation, so if I had to go through all of that just to get an orgasim then I might just being doing it a lot less as well.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Yeah that's how my wife is where everything has to be a relaxed setting and involves plenty of lube, and I always "take care of her" just the way she asks but sometimes it takes her 10 minutes or so to get there. Now to me that is a lot of work and preperation, so if I had to go through all of that just to get an orgasim then I might just being doing it a lot less as well.


if we're talking straight averages,10 minutes is pretty short.it may seem like a long time but she's doing well compared to those who need at least 20-25 minutes of touching in order to O.
A lot of the female hangups are mental.I know if I can't clear my mind and focus on simply feeling SO it will take longer.
If I feel bloated,chubby,unsexy,etc I will take longer bc my mind isn't in the right place.
SO is the same way.


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## johnAdams (May 22, 2013)

Married for well over 30 yers and we have sex almost every day that I am home (I now travel a lot on business)


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Well then in my "opinion" of what you & a few others have said and the way you just represented yourselves, you and those others don't really understand men. And you act like it was ME who invented this theory and ME who created the "not tonight honey I have a headache" line, that has been around since the 1950's on shows like I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners before I was even freakin born. So I am just going by my personal experiences, experiences from people that I know, people that come on all of these Dr. Phil and Oprah type shows and say these things, and the many many guys on here who also say their wives have cut them off or aren't into sex very much! So excuuuuse the hell out of me for just echoing all of these thousands of other sentiments that I hear from other men, and for my own personal experiences where I noticed the exact same things going on!


The issue is that you discount many other thousands of women. As much as 70% of women are being misrepresented by the 30% or so that don't like sex and have very little desire for it, while the majority of us actually love it and couldn't get enough to satisfy us. 

THAT is my only issue with the things you've posted. If you would at least acknowledge that over half of the population of women actually do desire and enjoy sex, then I wouldn't have a single complaint about your posts. But because you and others act like the women who enjoy sex are utter rarities, yeah...it makes you look like you don't understand women.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> First off those "crap tv shows" do contain actual _human beings_ who are drawing off of common experiences that are happening everywhere & sharing them, and wether it's presented in the form of a punchline or from a divorced man sitting on Dr Phil's couch the common theme is still the same.
> 
> And again for the 3rd time in this thread I understand that not "all" women are like that, but there must be quite a few of them out there for this to be such a popular sentiment amongst that many guys on message boards, tv shows, social groups, or wherever.



According to USA Today, only 30%-50% of women claim to have little to no desire for sex. Is that alot? Yeah. But that means that _at least half_ of the female population _does_ desire and enjoy sex.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Again stop the average woman on the street in her 30's on up and ask her when is the last time she's masturbated, and then stop the average guy that same age and ask him the same thing, and I guarantee the guy will have done it _twice as much_.
> 
> So what does that mean? It just means that we crave an orgasim a lot more, and it's a lot more important for us to have one wether it's with someone or taking care of it ourselves.


But a desire for masturbation does not equal a desire for sex. I don't masturbate often, but when I do it's usually because my body is turned on and my husband is at work, and for some reason, I'm insatiable. But that doesn't often happen. It's not that I don't like masturbation, it's that it's incomplete. Sure, I orgasm but my husband isn't there, his fingers aren't the ones stimulating me, and his raging hard on isn't there for me to attack once my orgasm is completed. 

I actually want to masturbate...maybe once or twice a month at most. I want my husband every effing day.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> if we're talking straight averages,10 minutes is pretty short.it may seem like a long time but she's doing well compared to those who need at least 20-25 minutes of touching in order to O.
> A lot of the female hangups are mental.I know if I can't clear my mind and focus on simply feeling SO it will take longer.
> If I feel bloated,chubby,unsexy,etc I will take longer bc my mind isn't in the right place.
> SO is the same way.


If I even stop and picture an attractive lady or an encounter I've had in my mind I will be READY to go and fully erect, and if I'm not at home or in a private setting I will _quickly_ go and find one in a matter of minutes.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Again stop the average woman on the street in her 30's on up and ask her when is the last time she's masturbated, and then stop the average guy that same age and ask him the same thing, and I guarantee the guy will have done it _twice as much_.


Stop me on the street and ask that question and I'm calling the cops.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> Stop me on the street and ask that question and I'm calling the cops.


Lol; figure of speech.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul, you seem to think that because women don't react exactly the same way a man does to sex, that they simply can not desire it as much as a man does. That's very shortsighted. I could see a hote guy on the street and not have any sexual response in my body, but that doesn't mean I want sex any less than you do. For me, I want and need sex, but that need is reserved for my husband. I have some fantasies, but most of them involve my husband, and so my sexual desires are reserved for him. But that doesn't mean I desire sex less, just that my desire is _different_.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Cee Paul, you seem to think that because women don't react exactly the same way a man does to sex, that they simply can not desire it as much as a man does. That's very shortsighted. I could see a hote guy on the street and not have any sexual response in my body, but that doesn't mean I want sex any less than you do. For me, I want and need sex, but that need is reserved for my husband. I have some fantasies, but most of them involve my husband, and so my sexual desires are reserved for him. But that doesn't mean I desire sex less, just that my desire is _different_.


I've already cleared you from my examples and gave you both an exception and an exemption.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Also, you assume that just because someone doesn't "O" - they obviously must not be into sex. I mean, what's the point of sex if you can't "pop one off" in a few minutes?

I'll confess, I rarely O. There, I said it. And yet - apparently, we have sex more than average. So, again, people can want sex for different reasons.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

My wife readily admits that her sex drive is about zero. When we were dating, we had sex on a fairly regular basis, and she did seem into it. After marriage it cut down some, but we did it more when she turned 40 However, in the past few years, we've only had sex around a half dozen times at most. She has no interest, and now with kids, she would rather sleep or veg than hit it. That said, if I insisted, she would oblige me, but it would be duty sex, and she would be impatient for me to finish, so I don't bother her about it. 

She does say that her ex used to insist on sex a lot, and she didn't like that. 

She is also self-conscious about her appearance (she could lose some weight, but she's not obese). I think our relationship would improve if we hit it on a regular basis, but she could go the rest of her life without sex and she would be just fine. 

One example - several months ago, we got a babysitter and had a date night at a nice restaurant. We both had a good time, and we were finally going to have a romp when we got home. As it turned out, some friends invited us over to their house, so we went over there, and after we got home and sent the babysitter home, she immediately went up to put her flannel PJ's on, which told me that she's not interested. She did mention that she would do if I insisted, but that she was really tired. I told her to forget it. If it was that important to her, she would have been ready to go, but she was more interested in sleep.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> My wife readily admits that her sex drive is about zero. When we were dating, we had sex on a fairly regular basis, and she did seem into it. After marriage it cut down some, but we did it more when she turned 40 However, in the past few years, we've only had sex around a half dozen times at most. She has no interest, and now with kids, she would rather sleep or veg than hit it. That said, if I insisted, she would oblige me, but it would be duty sex, and she would be impatient for me to finish, so I don't bother her about it.
> 
> She does say that her ex used to insist on sex a lot, and she didn't like that.
> 
> ...


Maaaan Charlie this is what I'm talking about and what millions of _men_ are having to put up with. Because yeah my wife will have sex if I beg really really hard enough, but like you said it would be "hurry up duty sex" where she isn't really into and wants it to be over with, which to me is no fun and not worth the time and effort.


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## Eöl (Feb 13, 2013)

In my case I believe there is a chemical factor to it. We have been together for 4 years now. The first year she was all over me, it was all the time, 48h in bed wasn't a problem. Then it declined. And now after having a kid, she has no desire for me at all. She says it's a question of chemicals, she doesn't feel the rush / the desire anymore. I do my best efforts to keep in shape, to dress well and keep being attractive. Actually I have other womens attention. Unfortunately, I don't care about the others I want her.... She says she loves me crazy, that she wants to end her days with me, but doesn't want sex for the moment. Every attempt is a failure. She accepts duty sex once in a while, it's freaking horrible...And I am totally HD. Even when we where at it 48h i was STILL demanding.. now I just avoid it most of the time... I made an attempt yesterday, it was a lame failure. She always has an excuse. I'm tired, you don't do it the right way. Your Johnson is too big...


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Maaaan Charlie this is what I'm talking about and what millions of _men_ are having to put up with. Because yeah my wife will have sex if I beg really really hard enough, but like you said it would be "hurry up duty sex" where she isn't really into and wants it to be over with, which to me is no fun and not worth the time and effort.


Yep, and like you, I figure "what's the point"? There are other issues at play as well that I've posted about, but I wonder if these might be mitigated a little with some regular sex. However, she seems very content to just sit around after the kids go down and play on the computer. Almost seems like a bait-and-switch, but like you, I figure there's no point in insisting on anything. If I'm that horny, I can go into the shower and think about the old whack job girlfriend that at least wanted it all the time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> In my case I believe there is a chemical factor to it. We have been together for 4 years now. The first year she was all over me, it was all the time, 48h in bed wasn't a problem. Then it declined.


 This is what you're talking about. Our shorthand around here is the PEA chemical. It's what lust is all about and it leaves your body about 2 to 5 years after you meet the person:
Love Chemical - Love Chemicals and Chemistry of Love

The best defense against it is reading His Needs Her Needs.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

lifeistooshort;3002201[B said:


> ]For the same reason that courting stops with marriage: people get lazy and take each other for granted. Some people seem to think that you shouldn't have to put forth any effort once you're married but sex should flow freely.[/B] Besides, if you have time for sex 3 times a day you have way too much time on your hands, and I bet you weren't putting out a whole lot of effort during each of those three times.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree 100%, just because you get married it doesn't mean the courtship & wooing ends.
There's sex & then there's SEX, you know the mind blowing, out of this world, "OMG I think my vagina is on fire" kind of sex.
I've noticed that we have that type of sex most often after we have wooed one another &/or put forth the effort to really engage with each other. 
I've even noticed a difference in my husband, he's more intense after I've down something as simple as being goofy & silly in bed. 
Making the effort to be present in your own marriage not only benefits your sex life, it also benefits your well being, it feels good to not run on auto pilot.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Plus, Harley (HNHN) states that you should spend at least 15 hours a week together, doing non-chore stuff. In other words, keep dating! It's the best way to stay in love.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Yep, and like you, I figure "what's the point"? There are other issues at play as well that I've posted about, but I wonder if these might be mitigated a little with some regular sex. However, she seems very content to just sit around after the kids go down and play on the computer. Almost seems like a bait-and-switch, but like you, I figure there's no point in insisting on anything. If I'm that horny, I can go into the shower and think about the old whack job girlfriend that at least wanted it all the time.


I too miss my whacky ex or my old girlfriend who when I came home would be horny already, and would start making out hard with me and then ask me to mount them wherever and get busy!!  :smthumbup:


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Maaaan Charlie this is what I'm talking about and what millions of _men_ are having to put up with. Because yeah my wife will have sex if I beg really really hard enough, but like you said it would be "hurry up duty sex" where she isn't really into and wants it to be over with, which to me is no fun and not worth the time and effort.


And there are, also, millions of men who have wives who enjoy sex, want it, desire it, need it, and can't live without it. In fact, there's just as many, if not more, who want sex and enjoy it than those who don't.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> And there are, also, millions of men who have wives who enjoy sex, want it, desire it, need it, and can't live without it. In fact, there's just as many, if not more, who want sex and enjoy it than those who don't.


No disagreement from me on this, I'm just speaking from my very limited experience. Wife has a friend that's always getting it on, as she's very HD. It's a running joke that if my wife calls her and she doesn't answer, she's probably getting some. Their child has caught them in the act several times. 

My wife is the opposite. Doesn't want it, and doesn't care if she gets it or not.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> And there are, also, millions of men who have wives who enjoy sex, want it, desire it, need it, and can't live without it. In fact, there's just as many, if not more, who want sex and enjoy it than those who don't.


Not with any of the men I'm around or hear about wether it's family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, books, message boards, magazines, or tv talk shows. And noooo I did not create any of these people, write any of those articles, or invent this popular sentiment of women cutting men off and/or not putting out either.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

It's easier to complain than it is to speak about the positives.You'll hear people complain about lack of sex more than you'll hear about the ones who are getting it bc the ones who are getting it are content and have no reason to talk.
People are simply more motivated to talk when things are bad than when things are great.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It's easier to complain than it is to speak about the positives.You'll hear people complain about lack of sex more than you'll hear about the ones who are getting it bc the ones who are getting it are content and have no reason to talk.
> People are simply more motivated to talk when things are bad than when things are great.


It's a common complaint amongst men no matter where you go and what site you're on, and there have been many many many books written about it too so I guess all of those authors are lying to sell books OR........they studied and researched a ton of married couples.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I too miss my whacky ex or my old girlfriend who when I came home would be horny already, and would start making out hard with me and then ask me to mount them wherever and get busy!!  :smthumbup:


Same here. I still fondly recall her coming to my house for the weekend, and immediately taking each others clothes off to get going, having lots of wake up sex, before bed sex, middle of the day sex. Having sex on her couch while her kids and their friends were upstairs was a highlight (especially when I had to put my hand over her mouth when she was screaming in delight). 

Flip side is that she was a nut job, and any issues that I have with my wife now would be multiplied by infinity with her.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Same here. I still fondly recall her coming to my house for the weekend, and immediately taking each others clothes off to get going, having lots of wake up sex, before bed sex, middle of the day sex. Having sex on her couch while her kids and their friends were upstairs was a highlight (especially when I had to put my hand over her mouth when she was screaming in delight).
> 
> Flip side is that she was a nut job, and any issues that I have with my wife now would be multiplied by infinity with her.


Was married to the very same nut job and I got to the point where having a great sex life meant putting up with strange and violent behavior, and the final straw was getting my lip busted by her and me deciding that was........IT.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Was married to the very same nut job and I got to the point where having a great sex life meant putting up with strange and violent behavior, and the final straw was getting my lip busted by her and me deciding that was........IT.


Ouch, that would do it for me. Mine wasn't violent, just had issues, plus lived a couple of hours away. Had some people tell me after we broke up that they though she was nuts. I was too busy having sex with her to realize it (I actually broke up with her, then two weeks later went back up there and we had the best weekend of sex ever). After we broke up the final time, she told me she would always love me, etc., but although it was fun, it had to end.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> It's a common complaint amongst men no matter where you go and what site you're on, and there have been many many many books written about it too so I guess all of those authors are lying to sell books OR........they studied and researched a ton of married couples.


And it is a common complaint among women, your choosing to ignore the facts is irrelevant and ignorant.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> It's a common complaint amongst men no matter where you go and what site you're on, and there have been many many many books written about it too so I guess all of those authors are lying to sell books OR........they studied and researched a ton of married couples.


The point completely flew over your head. Nobody is writing books on how to fix the good marriages. You must know that, right? It's the people in bad situations that are complaining and for whom books are being written. The vast majority don't have the problems you're complaining about, and the reason you don't hear about them is because they're not complaining.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Not with any of the men I'm around or hear about wether it's family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, books, message boards, magazines, or tv talk shows. And noooo I did not create any of these people, write any of those articles, or invent this popular sentiment of women cutting men off and/or not putting out either.


Right...and out of your family, friends, co-worker, neighbors, and those books, magazines, television and talk shows...how many people do you think were _actually_ represented? Maybe, ten thousand at most? And that's out of the millions and millions of people in this country? 

Your experience does NOT define the entire female race. The people you know, have talked to and seen or heard also don't define the entire female race. I'm not trying to discount your experience or anyone elses, or make light of such a horrible situation...If anything, I'm trying to offer hope...hope that, should you or other men, find yourselves single in the future, you CAN have a satisfying and frequent sex life with a woman without her being a nutcase...and that that will be the most likely situation.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> It's a common complaint amongst men no matter where you go and what site you're on, and there have been many many many books written about it too so I guess all of those authors are lying to sell books OR........they studied and researched a ton of married couples.


No one is saying that anyone is lying, CP. No one is saying that every woman loves sex, just that the majority of women _do_. Just because there are "many" books written on men who have wives who don't enjoy sex doesn't mean that most men have wives who don't enjoy sex. That's like saying that, since there are "many" books on how to avoid an affair that most marriages suffer from adultery. Yeah, there are thousands of men who have wives who don't like sex, and don't want it. Just like there are thousands of women who have husbands who don't want sex. And just like there are thousands of couples who both like sex and want it frequently. 

Seriously. Women who like sex and want it are _not_ a rarity. In fact, on this forum I've seen more women who want sex than those who say they don't. And this is just one forum, out of dozens and dozens of others, and then there are the women who don't post on message boards, and there are millions of them, some of which won't want sex, some of which will. 

Both kinds of women exist, but the women who like sex, enjoy it, and desire it are more frequent. And this is proven. I'll try to find that USA today link...


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Not with any of the men I'm around or hear about wether it's family, friends, co-workers, neighbors, books, message boards, magazines, or tv talk shows. And noooo I did not create any of these people, write any of those articles, or invent this popular sentiment of women cutting men off and/or not putting out either.


And how about all the media that that shows that women are as sexual as men?
Music videos, movies, TV ie Sex and the City etc. There is no shortage of media, magazines, forums full of women that enjoy and want sex. This forum alone is full of women that love sex and /or are not getting what they want.
Just had an ad on TV here for Durex lube, aimed at women and sexual fulfillment.

Just because there are men out there that aren't satisfied doe not mean this is all about women not wanting sex, if you seriously think that you are never going to have a functional relationship.

It is not gender specific, do you understand that?

Here is an oldie but a goldie for you. Women love sex, if you and your mates aren't getting any then take a look inward as to why.
Salt-N-Pepa - Shoop - YouTube


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> No one is saying that anyone is lying, CP. No one is saying that every woman loves sex, just that the majority of women _do_. Just because there are "many" books written on men who have wives who don't enjoy sex doesn't mean that most men have wives who don't enjoy sex. That's like saying that, since there are "many" books on how to avoid an affair that most marriages suffer from adultery. Yeah, there are thousands of men who have wives who don't like sex, and don't want it. Just like there are thousands of women who have husbands who don't want sex. And just like there are thousands of couples who both like sex and want it frequently.
> 
> Seriously. Women who like sex and want it are _not_ a rarity. In fact, on this forum I've seen more women who want sex than those who say they don't. And this is just one forum, out of dozens and dozens of others, and then there are the women who don't post on message boards, and there are millions of them, some of which won't want sex, some of which will.
> 
> Both kinds of women exist, but the women who like sex, enjoy it, and desire it are more frequent. And this is proven. I'll try to find that USA today link...


So back when Johnny Carson(who was seen by millions)tells that joke about the wife having a headache on sex night, why do all the men in the audience get it and laugh and probably most people at home watching too? And an even better example was a few weeks ago when my wife and I attended a comedy show with Kathy Griffin, and she did a bit about women should go down on their men orally after the show and started it off by saying "ladies I know it's probably been a year or so but"...........(and the entire audience laughed in agreement) So where in the hell do you think she(as a woman)got that idea that women only enjoy oral sex maybe once a year, and included it in one of her bits? It sure as hell didn't come from me nor did I provide the materials for any of those books written either, because once again it's a............._common complaint_ of most men that has nothing to do with just me and my marriage.


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

There are three scenarios where a woman wants to have sex, assuming there are no other variables in the mix, and this is for most women, not all. This is for most typical couples and relationships. 

1. Women have sex to attract a man and / or get married or hang onto him if not married.

2. To have children

3. Once married, the husband complains or threatens to leave the marriage due to lack of sex so the wife gives him just enough to satisfy him which doesn't last long and it goes back to a sex less marriage. 

I have talked to many friends and most say the same thing. Sex was great before marriage then became sparse afterwards minus the times when conceiving was the reason. We warn friends who are getting married and they refuse to believe us and I see the same look in their faces as I did when my friends warned and poked fun at me that I'd never get another blow job again. Well they were right minus 2 or 3 I did receive shortly after getting married 7 years ago. Basically it's the classic bait and switch. If women have to put on an act to attract a man then they shouldn't get married. What is it you say? Men put on acts? Listen, every husband I know are hard working responsible fathers who care for their families and are probably more mature now than they were before marriage. Maybe we should have continued to be immature jerks to keep the spark going.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Hurra said:


> There are three scenarios where a woman wants to have sex, assuming there are no other variables in the mix, and this is for most women, not all. This is for most typical couples and relationships.
> 
> *1. Women have sex to attract a man and / or get married or hang onto him if not married.
> 
> ...


That just seems so messed up to me, which leads me to wonder if part of this problem are the sexual issues that some women have.
I've noticed even here on TAM that women are not encouraged to be sexual beings for themselves, that it tends to be men who are.
It's as if women are not taught anything more about sex, then what I've bolded in your comment.
That if they actually enjoy sex then somehow they're dirty or a sl*t, even inside of a marriage, that "good girls" are not sexual beyond necessity, only the "bad girls" are. 
I dont' get it, sex is amazing, why wouldn't you want to have as much as you can?


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> Men put on acts? Listen, every husband I know are hard working responsible fathers who care for their families and are probably more mature now than they were before marriage


You can be a man who puts on act when dating, and still be a hard-working responsible father-type after marriage. For men the "acting" part may be different that doesn't mean it isn't similarly bothersome to your spouse later. 

Case in point - when many men are dating they take an active role in planning dates. They want to impress her, they want to make it seem like she's worth time, and effort, and money. And yet - when many men get married (accordingly to descriptions by female friends, given that we are basing these arguments off antecedents) these efforts stop - except on rare occasion (anniversary, birthday, Valentine's Day). There is no involvement, no effort, no planning. Any plans are made by, dictated by, and initiated by the wife. And she may get turned down (don't want to, already have plans, don't feel like it.)

Which is a different yet similiar kind of bait-and-switch, and really both forms say "I wanted to put more effort into getting you than I feel like keeping you."


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Not my WS -neverin tiated a godamn effin thing. But initiated an affir with some c&&t eho smiled at her. f&&k em'


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## burgandycloud (Jul 26, 2013)

it's happened in my marriage also, I appear to be the only one with strong interest and I'm the kind of person if the interest is not shown toward me, I get really upset, hence, I enjoy the attention of attraction and chemistry between two people. My husband displayed an abundance of attention prior to marriage, sometimes I wonder if it is the "Madonna ***** complex", you know, sex without love and love without sex???? A strong consideration indeed.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hurra said:


> Maybe we should have continued to be immature jerks to keep the spark going.


 No, but you _could_ have continued to date and romance your wife, which is what got her hot and bothered in the first place.

Do you spend 15 hours a week doing fun stuff, trying new restaurants, going on hikes, doing picnics, doing day trips, just generally staying connected? Or is your life ruled by TVs and laptops and cell phones, where each of you can bury your nose in a piece of electronics instead of each others' necks?


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Hurra said:


> There are three scenarios where a woman wants to have sex, assuming there are no other variables in the mix, and this is for most women, not all. This is for most typical couples and relationships.
> 
> 1. Women have sex to attract a man and / or get married or hang onto him if not married.
> 
> ...


I totally get what you're saying Hurra and have experienced those exact same things, so again it's a very "common" occurence in many marriages and that's the only point I was trying to make. And as men we are horny *99% of the time* so if there's a lack of sex happening it normally is a decision by the woman, because of the fact they're NOT horny as often as we are. Otherwise they would make sure that even if things aren't going well in the marriage that at least the sex keeps flowing on a regular basis.


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## Europa (Oct 28, 2011)

john_lord_b3 said:


> 3-5 times a week is not a Bait and Switch..it's very generous... I am sure many sexless victims of LD spouses here in TAM would be thrilled to have regular sex 3 times a week!


lol I'm lucky if my wife and I have sex 3 times a year. And we're only in our late 20's - early 30's


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Europa said:


> lol I'm lucky if my wife and I have sex 3 times a year. And we're only in our late 20's - early 30's


I think you need to start you own thread...

....maybe in the CWI forum.


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

Phenix70 said:


> That if they actually enjoy sex then somehow they're dirty or a sl*t, even inside of a marriage, that "good girls" are not sexual beyond necessity, only the "bad girls" are.
> I dont' get it, sex is amazing, why wouldn't you want to have as much as you can?


I have a friend who told me that his wife thinks sex is dirty. He pushes her to try different things and he knows she is curious or even turned on but she will not admit it. HE blames her mother and her religious background where sex was considered bad. She has actually come around somewhat he has told me recently but this just adds to your point.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Europa said:


> lol I'm lucky if my wife and I have sex 3 times a year. And we're only in our late 20's - early 30's


Stop making excuses. Your living this life because you choose to. And so are the rest of us TAM'ers .

Making the true ultimatum and moving on is what you have to do, otherwise you are in a cucked and gag balled position.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Hurra said:


> I have a friend who told me that his wife thinks sex is dirty. He pushes her to try different things and he knows she is curious or even turned on but she will not admit it. HE blames her mother and her religious background where sex was considered bad. She has actually come around somewhat he has told me recently but this just adds to your point.


Same here, vanilla and beige would best describe my wife's sexual appetite and desires. And before anyone asks - yessssss I have tried to spice it up and get her to do other things, but after giving certain things a try she made it known that she'd just rather lie there missionary style and have traditional sex. *yawn*


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

My wife is in her mid 40's, but has the mental maturity of a 12 year old, the sex drive of a corpse, and nags me like we're an old married couple. Best of all worlds.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Same here, vanilla and beige would best describe my wife's sexual appetite and desires. And before anyone asks - yessssss I have tried to spice it up and get her to do other things, but after giving certain things a try she made it known that she'd just rather lie there missionary style and have traditional sex. *yawn*


I would say that you have to try to get her to develop herself in a diversity of ways.

Education, learning new things, exploring new worlds will have its influence on the mind and spread to other areas of life.

Like sex. Like erotic issues. Like sensuality.

Visit museums regularly to start with. Cultural museums ofcourse, the rest will not help you to get a better sex life.

Seduce her to learn to try new tastes of food, new types of sport, new types entertainment.

PS:

Oh, make sure you yourself do follow these new roads too, otherwise you may find her straying into a new lifestyle without you.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I would say that you have to try to get her to develop herself in a diversity of ways.
> 
> Education, learning new things, exploring new worlds will have its influence on the mind and spread to other areas of life.
> 
> ...


Ummm you do know that we're 47 and 41 right and not 19 or 20 yrs old, and both of us have traveled and have seen and experienced many different things in life already. But thanks anyway - lol.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Ummm you do know that we're 47 and 41 right and not 19 or 20 yrs old, and both of us have traveled and have seen and experienced many different things in life already. But thanks anyway - lol.


I would say you are in a better chance developing in the area's mentioned if you have matured a little 

I found that every decade has its own new terrains of development. 

And sexual: the Kama Sutra is still not completely mastered at all by us, so there is for decades to come enough material there. And then the 50 shades terrain, and there is more and more. Aging gives more time and more sensuality to explore and enjoy.

I am quite serious about this. You and her have a lot to catch up.


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## Hurra (Sep 13, 2009)

ChargingCharlie said:


> My wife is in her mid 40's, but has the mental maturity of a 12 year old, the sex drive of a corpse, and nags me like we're an old married couple. Best of all worlds.


Yes, same here! Yes she acts professional when she wants to but often acts and talks like a 12 year old and thinks penises are 'eeewww'. But mine is ok apparently. Thats like telling someone you hate Ford Mustangs but you like their Mustang! lol


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hurra said:


> I have a friend who told me that his wife thinks sex is dirty. He pushes her to try different things and he knows she is curious or even turned on but she will not admit it. HE blames her mother and her religious background where sex was considered bad. She has actually come around somewhat he has told me recently but this just adds to your point.


 That was my story, minus the religion (older brother shaming me). It's hard to overcome that feeling that you're 'bad' if you like it.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> I would say you are in a better chance developing in the area's mentioned if you have matured a little
> 
> I found that every decade has its own new terrains of development.
> 
> ...


Yep, just last year we finally learned how to......french kiss in the backyard, and not get caught by our parents. *rolls eyes heavily*


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> So back when Johnny Carson(who was seen by millions)tells that joke about the wife having a headache on sex night, why do all the men in the audience get it and laugh and probably most people at home watching too?


Because it's a stereotype, just like the dumb husband on Everybody Loves Raymond, or King of the Hill or The Simpsons. Just because those shows are making jokes about men being dumb and lazy and cowardly doesn't mean that most men are. Now, I'm sure there _are_ men like Raymond who act that way sometimes. Just like there _are_ some men who have wives who take a headache as an excuse not to have sex. But just because a bunch of men laugh at a joke, doesn't mean all of their wives actually do that. 

My husband and I watch Bill Engvall; he has a joke where his wife wants to go on a date, but she doesn't want to get Italian food and he says, "If it's really a date, then we'll get Italian and _I_ will get lucky." My husband laughs at that joke, even though I don't act anything like Bill Engvall's wife. People can appreciate a joke without actually being able to relate to it. 

You sound incredibly biased to me, CP. Here, on this very thread, have been a handful of women telling you that women do actually enjoy sex, and you keep arguing...trying to prove us wrong. Wouldn't you rather know that women like sex? That there's hope for you to be in a relationship where your woman can't get enough of your body? 



> And an even better example was a few weeks ago when my wife and I attended a comedy show with Kathy Griffin, and she did a bit about women should go down on their men orally after the show and started it off by saying "ladies I know it's probably been a year or so but"...........(and the entire audience laughed in agreement) So where in the hell do you think she(as a woman)got that idea that women only enjoy oral sex maybe once a year, and included it in one of her bits? It sure as hell didn't come from me nor did I provide the materials for any of those books written either, because once again it's a............._common complaint_ of most men that has nothing to do with just me and my marriage.


Because it's a stereotype!! People laugh at jokes that involve stereotypes, because, usually, there will be quite a few people in a given audience who either currently relate, or have related to it before. But just because they laughed doesn't mean that every single woman in that room hasn't given their man a BJ in over a year. If Kathy Griffin wanted to make a joke about BJ's, I doubt she would have needed you or any other man to give her "material".  Just because a few comedians make jokes about women and sex, and then people laugh at them, doesn't mean that the majority of women don't like sex. That is NOT a reasonable argument.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> I totally get what you're saying Hurra and have experienced those exact same things, so again it's a very "common" occurence in many marriages and that's the only point I was trying to make. And as men we are horny *99% of the time* so if there's a lack of sex happening it normally is a decision by the woman, because of the fact they're NOT horny as often as we are. Otherwise they would make sure that even if things aren't going well in the marriage that at least the sex keeps flowing on a regular basis.


Not according to recent studies and statistics, CP. Just because women aren't horny in the same way men are, doesn't mean we aren't as horny as men. I may not want sex all day every day, and neither does my husband, by the way, but I can be ready to go jump him just by seeing his naked body...or by being given a very intimate kiss...or by seeing him masturbate...and a slew of other things. He can reach arousal sooner than I, but that doesn't mean I want sex any less than he does. 

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Sexless Statistics 

That's just one website which shows that, in fact, "most" women _do_ desire sex and enjoy it, and that quite a large number of men _don't_. I really wish that some of the men here could experience what it's like to be with a kind, loving, respectful woman who _also_ loves sex and wants it often. Maybe then they'd understand what some of us women here are trying to say and show.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Here's another website: Sex Statistics - Sexual Health Statistics and Information - Woman's Day 

According to this, nearly 50% of all couples interviewed reported having a satisfying sex life, but even more importantly, nearly half of women reported having faked an orgasm at least once in their life. That could play a big part in sexual satisfaction and it tells me that a very great number of men don't know how, or are unwilling, to help their woman to reach an orgasm. 

There is so much more to this than "Women just don't want sex as much as men", like you keep claiming. There are many, many, many things that play into a woman's sexual desire, just like there are a man's. How many times have we seen on this forum a man lose his desire for his wife/SO because she's cheated? Or because she nags him all the time and neglects him and rejects him? Or because she puts him down more often than not? While they may still want sex, they may not want sex with _her_. The same can happen for women, and it doesn't mean they don't want sex, just that they may not want it with the person they're currently with. And there's a major difference between the two.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

As for TV examples, when my kids were young we didn't have cable TV, so they ended up watching mostly Fox. Their two fave shows were The Simpsons and Malcom in the Middle.

On BOTH of those shows,the couples have a vibrant and fulfilling sex life where the WIFE is eagerly participating.

I really appreciated that as it did show my kids an example of how a couple who loves getting it on behaves.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

I agree that stereotypes are grossly unfair. And it is frustrating that some of them refuse to die.

I think differing societal expectations _vis-à-vis_ sex drive is one of the reasons this particular stereotype is so persistent.

For example, I doubt if a group of men in a restaurant would all high-five each other for avoiding sex with their wives prior to a business trip. For a man, there's too much shame and negative peer pressure involved in that sort of admission.

On the other hand, some have actually seen women doing this. Apparently, it's not a shameful thing (?)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I am 46 years old, have had dozens of friends and hundreds of acquaintances in my life...and have never ONCE heard or seen a group of wives high-fiving each other for avoiding sex. EVER.

How can this be if it is so common for women to do that?

I think that men who are in sexless marriages find solace that they are not alone and that is a good thing (to find others with the same issues and be able to vent). HOWEVER...just because they aren't alone does not mean that "most women don't want sex". So for those men, there comes a point when they really SHOULD face the fact that SOME women want sex, lots and lots of it. Because they then have to be able to face the idea that possibly some other woman WOULD want sex with them. If they are assuming most women don't want sex, then they might as well stay and accept their situation. But that isn't true, so they really do need to have all the facts. The fact is...they might find a better sexual match out there and it isn't rare or uncommon for a marriage to be full of great sex.

If a man would rather stay stuck in their situation and not hassle with a divorce, then it serves him best to just ignore these facts and say over and over "most women don't want sex so oh well...."


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> I am 46 years old, have had dozens of friends and hundreds of acquaintances in my life...and have never ONCE heard or seen a group of wives high-fiving each other for avoiding sex. EVER.


My wife and I saw it _once_ at a business function. Alcohol started flowing freely and I was the only man at the table. Not all the ladies joined in. It was about six of them. A lady on TAM also told a very similar story about a year and a half ago. 

To be clear though, I'm not talking about how common it is or how frequently it happens. I'm talking about the social perceptions that would make such a thing acceptable or unacceptable conduct. 

It is not acceptable conduct among men because there is a huge amount of social pressure to not lose face and appear less manly before your peers. So much so that a man who enjoys cooking or gardening probably won't admit it in front of strangers. 

And it may not be acceptable conduct among women either (Hence the parenthetical question mark.) Regardless, stereotypes, especially unfair ones aren't perpetuated in a way that is even remotely fair. They're fueled by outrageous experiences however rare they might be.  (And I do understand how frustrating that is.)


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Elliott said:


> Why does sex have to stop when you're married?
> 
> It's sad to me how Single people have more sex than us married people.
> 
> Yes I know raising children is a *GIGANTIC* sex killer..


I havent read the 25 pages of this thread - but...

1) It doesnt.

2) No, They don't.

3) No, it isnt.


Sorry - totally, insufferably unhelpful I know.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> ...It is not acceptable conduct among men because there is a huge amount of social pressure to not lose face and appear less manly before your peers. So much so that a man who enjoys cooking or gardening probably won't admit it in front of strangers.


No. Are you kidding?

Its funny you say that since I both cook and have a (vegetable) garden when I am not workng crazy hours and playing super-dad.

'Less manly'? Laugh. Actually - I might even say the opposite. My wife and her friends get all doe-eyed if I whip up a professional menu or make home made bread after doing something like using the chaisaw to cut up a fallen tree or spending a couple hours showing the kids how to ride a bike or putting in a new sink. I have other guy friends in successful marriages that 'behave' in similar ways (even without the cooking and gardening) and frankly - 'peer pressure' is the LAST thing on their minds... this isnt high school. I have a friend that took his 35 year married wife out ballroom dancing - and she still talks about it. unmanly?

'Manly' doesnt mean prick waving or simply superficially appearing so for your 'peers' and playing at big-dog. That's infantile.

eegads.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> No. Are you kidding?
> Its funny you say that since I both cook and have a (vegetable) garden when I am not workng crazy hours and playing super-dad.


My parenting days are long gone, but cooking and gardening were not random examples that I have no experience with. I've gotten funny looks more than once when that comes out, especially around the 4X4 and hunting types.

Even within those spheres there are gender differences. The local cactus and succulent society splits almost evenly down the middle with most of the women favoring _Cyathias_ and _Aloes_, while the men favor the nastiest _Cylindropuntias_ and _Fouquierias_ in existence. Similarly, male chefs with a collection of Shun cutlery that would make a medieval Samurai jealous aren't that unusual in my experience. Some would call that a form of compensation.

None of that is really the point here though. The point is that it seems less socially acceptable for a man to voice a disinterest in sex in front of his peers. Maybe I'm wrong here, but a number of ladies on TAM have said as much themselves. If so, it would be one possible explanation for the unfair stereotype on this thread that some of the ladies are objecting to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

A good-looking woman asked random guys for sex, and 50% said yes, but when a guy did it to 100 Women, zero said yes.

Read more: Social Experiment: Guys Asking For Sex vs. Women Asking For Sex | Jessica​


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> ...The point is that it seems less socially acceptable for a man to voice a disinterest in sex in front of his peers...


shrug. I dont buy the suggestion that somehow there is a meaningful difference outside of a few anecdotal examples - including the relationship-disaster-pit of TAM. I can equally state that the females I know would see a woman with that kind of disinterest as sad and pitiful and needing help.

I think most all people would agree that a healthy sex life is a good thing for both sexes - and that disinterest is ...not as fun.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> A good-looking woman asked random guys for sex, and 50% said yes, but when a guy did it to 100 Women, zero said yes.
> 
> Read more: Social Experiment: Guys Asking For Sex vs. Women Asking For Sex | Jessica​


and the point regarding sex in a relationship being...what?


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> ...I've gotten funny looks more than once when that comes out, especially around the 4X4 and hunting types....


I drive a 4x4 and have a bow.

Im confused.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I have known personally *MANY* HD women with LD men, many different circumstances. All of these wives said that their husband's would not ever talk about their lack of a sex drive to them, to their peers, to their doctors, anyone. It is not a few anecdotal examples. Therapists say this all the time as well (that men will not talk about MANY things, including this topic).

Having said that, I'm not sure these LD guys don't talk about it due to shame. I think maybe they just don't talk about it since they are truly LD they don't get what the big deal is.

I think the average LD wife is the same. She isn't running around thrilled that she turns down her husband for sex. Instead, she isn't thinking about sex at all, so why talk about it, to friends or anyone?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

turnera...How is a random hook up with a stranger supposed to sound appealing to a woman? I mean, c'mon now.

Just because 50% of men said yes in that rediculous experiment, doesn't mean anything about the sex drives of women in real circumstances.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> shrug. I dont buy the suggestion that somehow there is a meaningful difference outside of a few anecdotal examples - including the relationship-disaster-pit of TAM. I can equally state that the females I know would see a woman with that kind of disinterest as sad and pitiful and needing help.


Well, I trust you realize that personal incredulity carries no more weight than anecdotal observation. The idea that sexual behavior is learned and therefore subject to cultural influence is not without documentation in psychology. Of course a person is free to accept that or reject it as they see fit, but the fact that the stereotype exists at all surely has its roots somewhere.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just because 50% of men said yes in that rediculous experiment, doesn't mean anything about the sex drives of women in real circumstances.


It's more a study of how culture shapes sexual behavior than actual strength of sex drive in a real relationship. I believe this is the original article.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IDK. It just reinforces what just about every guy I've met tells me: they just need a warm body and they're good to go. Women? Not so much.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

What you are referring to with the "warm body and good to go" is the ability to have an orgasm, not the sex drive.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> I agree that stereotypes are grossly unfair. And it is frustrating that some of them refuse to die.
> 
> I think differing societal expectations _vis-à-vis_ sex drive is one of the reasons this particular stereotype is so persistent.
> 
> ...


I have a lot of female friends and have never once heard any of them talk about avoiding sex. ALL of my female friends have healthy sex drives. There are a few that are in similar situations that I was in my past marriage ie LD male/ HD female.
One friend even considered hiring a male escort because her husband was so LD.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

ocotillo said:


> My wife and I saw it _once_ at a business function. Alcohol started flowing freely and I was the only man at the table. Not all the ladies joined in. It was about six of them. A lady on TAM also told a very similar story about a year and a half ago.
> 
> To be clear though, I'm not talking about how common it is or how frequently it happens. I'm talking about the social perceptions that would make such a thing acceptable or unacceptable conduct.
> 
> ...


We must live on different planets because many of the men that I know enjoy cooking and/or gardening, these are very manly men.
My old FWB man used to bake for me before i came over to get some action, we would have sex, eat cake and then go our ways 

My partner who is a great big, tall, broad all man kind of man loves cooking and is an excellent gardener. Oh and he is sexy as hell with a super high sex drive.

Living outside all the stereotypes here thankfully.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> What you are referring to with the "warm body and good to go" is the ability to have an orgasm, not the sex drive.


 No, it pretty much was that they all tell me they just want to screw anything that will let them.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Right. A screw is what you are talking about.

NO ONE has ever said that women "just want a screw with anything that has a hard one". That is because a woman typically wants more than just an orgasm.

You are talking about wham-bam sex when you are talking about men who want to screw anything, this is orgasm focused.

Women are not so orgasm focused that they would lay down behind a dumpster to have one with a random strange guy who offered free sex.

Saying this does NOT imply that men want sex more than women. It just implies they have easy orgasms.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Holland said:


> We must live on different planets because many of the men that I know enjoy cooking and/or gardening, these are very manly men.
> *My old FWB man used to bake for me before i came over to get some action, we would have sex, eat cake and then go our ways *
> 
> My partner who is a great big, tall, broad all man kind of man loves cooking and is an excellent gardener. Oh and he is sexy as hell with a super high sex drive.
> ...


Hahaha, that sounds like quite the nice arrangement, who is going to pass up sex AND home baked cake?
Seems like he knew just the right thing to get you to come over. 
Maybe that's the problem, not enough men offering homemade cake. (That's tongue in cheek people.)


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Oh yeah Phenix a man offering home made cake is a winner and very hard to resist.
This guy is super, duper high drive, I used to be in awe of how he would be telling me all about the cake/slice one minute and then the next we are having sex against the kitchen bench. 

Mr H is a great cook, one of my fave things is when we cook together, have a glass of wine and chat. There is something uber sexy about men that enjoy cooking.


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## Phenix70 (May 6, 2012)

Holland, it's probably the nurturing aspect of cooking for another.
I too love to cook & bake with the husband in the kitchen, there's something very intimate about that time together. 
And yes, every time we do that, we have a knee shaking good time afterward.
Might have to go bust out a cookbook tonight & see what we can come up with...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Faithful Wife said:


> turnera...How is a random hook up with a stranger supposed to sound appealing to a woman? I mean, c'mon now.


IDK, why did it _sound appealing_ to 50% of the _men_?


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

All I know is that most women can hold out waaaaay longer than us men when it comes to orgasims. And if we were told we couldn't have sex or masturbate for let's say two months we would be devastated & highly upset, whereas most women would be like - "ehhh no problem".


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

What a load of crap. Two months, man oh man I can't last two days without some sort of action.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> What a load of crap. Two months, man oh man I can't last two days without some sort of action.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Which.............puts you in the _minority_. 

And as far as those "stereotypes" go, no matter what the topic is those usually start because of a behavior pattern of some kind that gets repeated many times over and starts to become the norm. So when said topic gets brought up there are many many many people who get it and can relate to it.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

According to you I am in the minority, according to me I am in the majority. If you bothered to really listen you would see that the majority of women enjoy sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> According to you I am in the minority, according to me I am in the majority. If you bothered to really listen you would see that the majority of women enjoy sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean listen to the 5 or 6 women on here who claim to be as horny and willing as men are, over the millions out there who aren't that way which in return caused this whole "sterotype" thing to come about? :rofl:


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

I came across this excerpt on Google from a very famous book "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus", which might explain a few things.

_In short, women have to have nothing on their minds, must feel totally relaxed, and also feel loved to be in the mood. Men need to merely just think about sex to be in the mood for it._


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> You mean listen to the 5 or 6 women on here who claim to be as horny and willing as men are, over the millions out there who aren't that way which in return caused this whole "sterotype" thing to come about? :rofl:


5 or 6? :rofl:

No, you know there are more than that. And, at the risk of causing triggers for some folks, why not listen to the men in CWI whose wives were getting sex elsewhere? I would say they would qualify as women who enjoy sex, don't you think? Yes, they did something reprehensible by seeking it elsewhere, but it still remains that they DO like sex. So, add them into it as well.

Unfortunately, Cee Paul, I know you will STILL come up with some other lame excuse as to why women don't like sex. 

Ladies, perhaps we ought to just let Cee Paul live in his little world where no women enjoy sex. At least that way he can still foist the blame on (almost) all the women he has had sex with.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> 5 or 6? :rofl:
> 
> No, you know there are more than that. And, at the risk of causing triggers for some folks, why not listen to the men in CWI whose wives were getting sex elsewhere? I would say they would qualify as women who enjoy sex, don't you think? Yes, they did something reprehensible by seeking it elsewhere, but it still remains that they DO like sex. So, add them into it as well.
> 
> ...


Which is an interesting point Maricha, I am sure there are plenty of men that are confronted by sexually strong women. Far easier for them to choose LD women and then blame them for the problems.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> Which is an interesting point Maricha, I am sure there are plenty of men that are confronted by sexually strong women. Far easier for them to choose LD women and then blame them for the problems.


First off I never ever said "all" women and said it was a lot or most. Secondly I had a woman who loved sex and was into trying different things and I miss that part like hell, but it was the other 75% of her I could do without.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> I came across this excerpt on Google from a very famous book "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus", which might explain a few things.
> 
> _In short, women have to have nothing on their minds, must feel totally relaxed, and also feel loved to be in the mood. Men need to merely just think about sex to be in the mood for it._



^
l
l

This would describe my wife to a tee which is why she's not into "quickies" or having random anywhere sex, because everything has to be lined up perrrrrrfect for it all to happen. Whereas when men are completely horny and rock hard that is the best time to catch us, instead of 20 minutes of foreplay later.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Ok that was fun now I'm back.

Average Women need to feel close to have SEX . Period end of story.

Average Men need sex to feel close. Period end of story.

So since average women have a prerequisite for sex to occur in marriage they are the ones with the list. for average men sex is totally unconnected from anything. Good day..have sex, bad day..have sex, Monday...have sex. During a commercial during the Superbowl...have sex.

Women... Oh has a,b,c,,e,f ,g ,h i,j,K...happened.

That is why sex stops in a marriage... average men get tired of the list and fight back.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Ok that was fun now I'm back.
> 
> Average Women need to feel close to have SEX . Period end of story.
> 
> ...


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Holland said:


> We must live on different planets because many of the men that I know enjoy cooking and/or gardening, these are very manly men.
> My old FWB man used to bake for me before i came over to get some action, we would have sex, eat cake and then go our ways
> 
> My partner who is a great big, tall, broad all man kind of man loves cooking and is an excellent gardener. Oh and he is sexy as hell with a super high sex drive.
> ...



It never hurts to read the balance of a person's comments before responding.  (Or you could look at my pictures in EleGirl's, _How Does Your Garden Grow_ thread.)

I'm telling you as a man speaking first hand that a gardening hobby *does* sometimes garner strange looks from other men and can be regarded as somewhat effeminate especially in some cultures with certain Asian and Native American ones being pretty high on the list.

In pointing out the reality of male peer pressure, I was _agreeing_ with some of the ladies here who are objecting to the stereotype behind the old saw about wedding cake destroying a woman's sex drive. And in that regard, I stand by the personal observation that it is socially unacceptable for a man to voice a disinterest in sex in front of his peers. 

Whether it is equally unacceptable for a woman to do so, I don't know because I'm obviously not able to speak from a woman's perspective. But if it is not, than that could certainly be a factor in the perpetuation of this stereotype.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Holland said:


> Which is an interesting point Maricha, I am sure there are plenty of men that are confronted by sexually strong women. Far easier for them to choose LD women and then blame them for the problems.


"Sexually strong women" are scarce.

Women who claim to be sexually strong remind me of jailhouse religious converts.

When will these women who are populating the thread just give in to the basic fact... average women are the ones most likely to not find sex as a NEED in a marriage.... and that average women are the ones most likely to use sex as a weapon?

That shows me at least that the average women does not value sex nearly as much as the average man.

Why are we still arguing this fact.

The thread asks why sex stops in a marriage..its obvious.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The thread asks why sex stops in a marriage..its obvious.


Well, yes, it actually is very obvious... and both men and women stated that fact pages ago: it stops because they LET it stop. No other reason. And that's BOTH of them let it stop, not just one spouse.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Well, yes, it actually is very obvious... and both men and women stated that fact pages ago: it stops because they LET it stop. No other reason. And that's BOTH of them let it stop, not just one spouse.


One spouse DECIDES to use sex as a weapon...usually the female spouse.

Its not as simple as "Hey honey you cut back on sex lets get back to what works for both of us...."

NO she digs in and then puts the marriage through misery.

Of course the opposite can happen also... but not nearly at the same rate as average wives pulling the sex as a weapon card out.

So who's at fault?... I say the one who FIRST used sex as a weapon... and not the one who was blindsided by that personal choice.

That person is the one who started it.

So you saying both spouses "let' it happen is not true. One DECIDED to make lack of sex happen.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> One spouse DECIDES to use sex as a weapon...usually the female spouse.
> 
> Its not as simple as "Hey honey you cut back on sex lets get back to what works for both of us...."
> 
> ...


T2FIO, it's not always like that and you know it. 

One may decide that sex is unimportant... the one who disagrees just rolls with it because he or she feels there is no other option.

One may have built up resentment and detaches in many/all aspects, not just sex.... and the other just rolls with it...why? Because he or she feels there is no other option.

One may have a medical issue and is too embarrassed to see the doctor about it. So, he or she doesn't get help for it, plunging them into sexlessness. And the other spouse just allows it to continue because he or she doesn't want to cause any more misery for the spouse with the medical condition.

I can go on and on, but it really won't do any good. Why? Because some are too stubborn to see that BOTH spouses are responsible for a sexless marriage. BOTH allow it. 

God it sounds like talking to children. It really doesn't matter WHO starts it. By allowing it to continue, you, as the other spouse, are just as responsible for not having sex.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> T2FIO, it's not always like that and you know it.
> 
> One may decide that sex is unimportant... the one who disagrees just rolls with it because he or she feels there is no other option.
> 
> ...


I have to disagree... you shouldn't have to take a marriage to the brink of divorce just to get a sex life...that's crazy.

So more blame does go on to the spouse who cannot separate sex from some 'agenda' .

So the spouse in order to not allow it to continue is put in a terrible situation due to the fact the withholding spouse is well withholding.

There absolutely is more blame on one versus the other. Now I'm sure the sexual seeking spouse is also to "blame' in some regard but not nearly to the extent of the long term witholder.

My own wife put the bar so damn high its virtually unattainable unless I force her to "see the light".


The spouse who first uses sex as a weapon is to blame . Its not like those spouses with medical issues are giving BJ's or HJ's either... its a personal decision to withhold intimacy.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I have to disagree... you shouldn't have to take a marriage to the brink of divorce just to get a sex life...that's crazy.
> 
> So more blame does go on to the spouse who cannot separate sex from some 'agenda' .
> 
> ...


This is what is clouding your own responses: that your wife has set the bar so high. And, because of this, you seem to group all women into that same category. It's bitterness speaking, nothing more.

In the last paragraph of the above quote, you also mention those spouses with medical issues (as I posted previously). I would like to be sure I am understanding correctly. Are you implying that one who has a medical issue and due to that is unable to have sex, that they are willfully withholding intimacy? I'm not talking specifically about ED. I mean those who are in pain with even the simplest of movements. Is that willfully withholding intimacy? I really and truly hope that is not what you are implying, because that is really...cold.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> This is what is clouding your own responses: that your wife has set the bar so high. And, because of this, you seem to group all women into that same category. It's bitterness speaking, nothing more.
> 
> In the last paragraph of the above quote, you also mention those spouses with medical issues (as I posted previously). I would like to be sure I am understanding correctly. Are you implying that one who has a medical issue and due to that is unable to have sex, that they are willfully withholding intimacy? I'm not talking specifically about ED. I mean those who are in pain with even the simplest of movements. Is that willfully withholding intimacy? I really and truly hope that is not what you are implying, because that is really...cold.


What I am implying is that a spouse who's gender is predisposed to not missing sex will use any excuse on the planet to avoid it including a variety of medical conditions... lets just say a woman has dryness issues, well that doesn't preclude her form using her hands/mouth or other body part to bridge the understandable medical concern.

Instead all intimacy goes out the door. Basically "My way or the highway" attitude.

There is no discussion about the concerns of the other spouse... basically a "suck it up" attitude.

And yes that is the reason for most of the posts here. A spouse WILLFULLY withholding sex and using any convenient excuse they can.

My wife simply ran out of excuses over the years (Its pathetic really).... She was WRONG and I was RIGHT... bottom line in why our marriage will fully turn around. Through my leadership... I got her finally to not lump herself in with all the other willfully withholding women who are married. That was one of her arguments.... "Well other women do it" its BS.

BTW I am not bitter but I am not going to turn a blind eye to the OBVIOUS.


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## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

T2, was your wife cheating at one point? If so then she must have a high libido. For other men.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

techmom said:


> T2, was your wife cheating at one point? If so then she must have a high libido. For other men.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EA (at least) that he often tries to downplay.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> That was one of her arguments.... "Well other women do it" its BS.
> 
> BTW I am not bitter but I am not going to turn a blind eye to the OBVIOUS.


Wait, she said that other women do it...and you say it's BS. Yet, you make the claim that women do it. Really?

Like I said... the OBVIOUS is that both are responsible for not having sex. It doesn't make a difference if one is more responsible than the other. They are both responsible for allowing it to continue. THAT is the OBVIOUS.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> EA (at least) that he often tries to downplay.


This thread is not about me its about "Why sex stops in a marriage" a topic I have lived first hand.

To answer your question... IMO my wife had EA's with any male she communicates with via Facebook or texting this is basically her being naive. 

EA by definition is leaking emotional energy outside the marriage...she does that all the time... in part due to her ADHD and seeking that ADHD "high". NO PA as far as I can surmise.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Wait, she said that other women do it...and you say it's BS. Yet, you make the claim that women do it. Really?
> 
> Like I said... the OBVIOUS is that both are responsible for not having sex. It doesn't make a difference if one is more responsible than the other. They are both responsible for allowing it to continue. THAT is the OBVIOUS.


So pushing a marriage to the brink of divorce is "just the way it is" or is it due to the willfully withholding spouse alone?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Trying.....YES THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS.

Why haven't you figured out yet that you cannot force your wife to want to have sex with you?

You can accept her terms, or you can leave. That's your two choices. Not sure why you are still hammering on it.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> Well, I trust you realize that personal incredulity carries no more weight than anecdotal observation.


Yes - that was essentially my point as well. We agree.



ocotillo said:


> .., but the fact that the stereotype exists at all surely has its roots somewhere.


"Surely"? So stereotypes should be considered because they 'have roots somewhere'? Sorry, I dont think so - but I dont want to derail the thread worse than it is already.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> What I am implying is that a spouse who's gender is predisposed to not missing sex will use any excuse on the planet to avoid it including a variety of medical conditions....



'Who's (sic) _*gender is predisposed to not missing sex*_'?

Not buying it, sorry - that is ridiculous. That is a claim you simply cannot back up.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

anotherguy....if you have just joined the thread, you may have missed the fact that Trying2 has "all the facts" about how women just don't care about or want sex, period. FACT. According to him, the one who's (SIC) wife doesn't want to have sex with him. To him, it is simply an unavoidable FACT that women don't care about sex.

Since to him this is a FACT, I'm not sure why he's trying to work it out at all. Who wants to be married if they know there will be no sex, with this woman or the next one (since NONE of us women care about sex)? I don't get him, but good luck, maybe you can.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Trying.....YES THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS.
> 
> Why haven't you figured out yet that you cannot force your wife to want to have sex with you?
> 
> You can accept her terms, or you can leave. That's your two choices. Not sure why you are still hammering on it.


I have figured out I cannot FORCE her, however I CAN convince her that what she is doing is WRONG and that she needs to meet me in the middle. Time, patience and a certain amount of convincing fits the bill here.

She does realize SEX is important, there is no debate about that. 

So yes it is sort of an in-house therapy session... to which she will come around and WANT sex with me again.

The reason I still hammer on it... is because that is what it takes. It takes consistent unrelenting effort to turn a sexless marriage around.

Just remember she is free to leave at any point... she doesn't because she knows the outcome already. Her becoming sexual with me again.... its a foregone conclusion.

She will accept my terms... for life now as an ongoing sexual marriage.

Its worth it to give 4 to get a lifetime and not be the typical sexless marriage statistic.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> ^
> l
> l
> 
> This would describe my wife to a tee which is why she's not into "quickies" or having random anywhere sex, because everything has to be lined up perrrrrrfect for it all to happen. Whereas when men are completely horny and rock hard that is the best time to catch us, instead of 20 minutes of foreplay later.


Yep, same here. Wife has to be not too tired, kids have to be in bed, she needs a few drinks to be relaxed, stars and moon aligned just right, and then maybe we can hit it, but probably not, which is why we've had sex three times in almost three years. 

Old girlfriend with three kids - we would hit it anywhere. We didn't do any real crazy, hang-from-the-ceiling type stuff, but she would give me BJ's on the couch in full view of the glass door so anyone that came to the door could see what's going on, give me road head, go around the house trying out every room, hit it downstairs while her kids were asleep upstairs, clean each other up in the shower, etc. I still get aroused thinking about her almost 15 years later, although I never want to see her again.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Just keep telling yourself that, Trying. Sure thing, dude. I'm sure you are so sexy to her that she can't stop herself....or at least, THAT will happen soon, due to your current behavior. Uh huh. Let us know when it actually happens.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just keep telling yourself that, Trying. Sure thing, dude. I'm sure you are so sexy to her that she can't stop herself....or at least, THAT will happen soon, due to your current behavior. Uh huh. Let us know when it actually happens.


I already won through sheer persistence. I'm not the type of guy to sit back and accept the unacceptable.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

And how did you win? I thought you still aren't having regular sex.

And even when you do somehow guilt and force her back into having sex with you, according to you, she won't care and won't like it and then by logic, things will go back to how they were anyway.

Trying...you can fool yourself but so far you haven't fooled anyone here.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> "Sexually strong women" are scarce.
> 
> *Women who claim to be sexually strong remind me of jailhouse religious converts.*
> 
> ...


Yay, bingo this proves the point. There are men here that are afraid of women that like, enjoy, crave and initiate sex. The first line of defense is to try and offend which is exactly what you have done.
The second line is to sound all exasperated and tell us to just give in to your facts because you are right and we are wrong. Sorry but you are not right, you are spinning your own unresearched psychobabble to allay your own woes.

Why does sex stop in marriage, either one of the partners returns to their true self which is LD, is selfish and will not step up for their mate.
Or one partner resents, dislikes and is turned off by the other for whatever reason.

Sex does not stop because women do not like sex.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> The thread asks why sex stops in a marriage..its obvious.


Obvious?! Okay then … tell me why the sex in my marriage went from “like rabbits” to once every 2 or 3 months (sometimes as long as 1 year) in my marriage at year 3? Because (stupid me) I have never been able to figure it out … i.e. no kids, no job changes, no weight gain, no health problems, no fights, no financial problems, nada.

Obviously, I must have turned (overnight) into wart-covered, hunch-back witch with a “list” … yeah, that must be it. :rofl:


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Red Sonja said:


> Obvious?! Okay then … tell me why the sex in my marriage went from “like rabbits” to once every 2 or 3 months (sometimes as long as 1 year) in my marriage at year 3? Because (stupid me) I have never been able to figure it out … i.e. no kids, no job changes, no weight gain, no health problems, no fights, no financial problems, nada.
> 
> Obviously, I must have turned (overnight) into wart-covered, hunch-back witch with a “list” … yeah, that must be it. :rofl:


It was asked by a male.... in your case you are the other scenario.

Usually in your type of case...

He's got medical issues he isn't disclosing
He's angry at you
He's cheating

Sure it has nothing to do with your physical appearance.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

not here to argue. Trying2FigureItOut - sorry... it must be horribly difficult. I know what I get like when Im not getting sex - and its not just a physical thing - the lack of intimacy - all of it - its a big deal. 

Unfortunately I have no advice for you since its way outside my experience generally. I want to cling to the idea that once the relationship is good and everyone is happy and comfortable and laughing and doing things together and bonded doing stupid little things for each other like making cookies or picking flowers - once those things are habitual - then sex follows easily. That simply believing having more sex is going to fix anything (or at least help the relatonship) is a completely broken concept, it wont. There is no shortage of people on TAM that consider that naive in the extreme. I still believe it... and its not about casting blame really - you both are failing and both unhappy so you both need so do SOMETHING for crissakes. I can almost guarantee you that the 2 of you would both give me very different answers for what you would change in the relationship if I put you both under the interrogaton lamps separately. Yes? Until you can close THAT gap - you are going to have trouble is my thought.

To me - I want to believe that if it has come down to a battle - a contest - a negotiation - a conflict of wills and demands and desires and resistance and capitualtulation - you - both of you - have lost already in some ways. Having 2 people strenuously dragging each other into some sort of 'middle ground' that neither is happy with but (mostly) willing to tolerate.... sigh. I would really try to root out what the real issue here is. I dont mean to be insufferably pretentious in pretending to evaluate your problem from afar with no information - its just a message board. As for myself.. and friends I know - and people I know... it never ceases to surprise me at how obtuse I and others can be in self evaluation of what the real problem is. 

Good luck. All we can do is our best.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> not here to argue. Trying2FigureItOut - sorry... it must be horribly difficult. I know what I get like when Im not getting sex - and its not just a physical thing - the lack of intimacy - all of it - its a big deal.
> 
> Unfortunately I have no advice for you since its way outside my experience generally. I want to cling to the idea that once the relationship is good and everyone is happy and comfortable and laughing and doing things together and bonded doing stupid little things for each other like making cookies or picking flowers - once those things are habitual - then sex follows easily. That simply believing having more sex is going to fix anything (or at least help the relatonship) is a completely broken concept, it wont. There is no shortage of people on TAM that consider that naive in the extreme. I still believe it... and its not about casting blame really - you both are failing and both unhappy so you both need so do SOMETHING for crissakes. I can almost guarantee you that the 2 of you would both give me very different answers for what you would change in the relationship if I put you both under the interrogaton lamps separately. Yes? Until you can close THAT gap - you are going to have trouble is my thought.
> 
> ...


Exactly... good observation it is about "closing the gap".

Now I do believe in middle ground... obviously doing things only according to the desires of the one who disallows way in turn makes the one who wants sex unhappy... so a middle ground end-game outcome is the ONLY choice.

I do believe its simply a test.... a test of two wills.... I do think many spouses hold resentment over things that occurred a long time ago. That spouse who holds onto resentment (and creates new resentment)is at fault in the marriage.

Extending a conflict in essence creates new opportunities for resentment on both ends... one from the sheer feeling of "unfairness" to the other spouse receiving the consistent message of them being held accountable for the sexless situation.

Its a fine line you walk in these situations.... ideally you walk it without permanently harming the marriage... in the end you hold each other accountable for a stable healthy marriage essentially righting the wrongs of the past and bringing the situation around full-circle.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

anotherguy said:


> "Surely"? So stereotypes should be considered because they 'have roots somewhere'?


Not if by 'considered' you mean taken to heart, believed or acted upon. 

We can argue with someone holding an unfair stereotype until we're blue in the face, but they're not going to budge an inch and will dismiss anyone not conforming to that stereotype as an outlier and exception. 

I would say it should be considered only in the sense of trying to understand why a person believes what they believe.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Holland said:


> I have a lot of female friends and have never once heard any of them talk about avoiding sex. ALL of my female friends have healthy sex drives. There are a few that are in similar situations that I was in my past marriage ie LD male/ HD female.
> One friend even considered hiring a male escort because her husband was so LD.


All of my married female friends are the same...openly talk about sex, openly enjoy sex, and openly want sex. I have a couple who aren't married yet that have SO's and are waiting until marriage that I'm slightly concerned for, but it could just be that neither of them have been in a position to really feel those lustful desires. Well, one of them could and might just not want to talk about it...she's not as free with her conversations as some of my other friends. The other, I think, is just very ignorant and naive regarding sexual desire. Once she has sex, I think the flames will spark. They did with me.

As of yet, I haven't personally met a woman who didn't enjoy sex and want it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

turnera said:


> IDK, why did it _sound appealing_ to 50% of the _men_?


Male sex drive and female sex drive aren't _the same_, but they can be _as high_. So, just because it sounded appealing to the men and not the women doesn't mean the women who said no didn't want sex, just that they didn't want sex with the person asking for it. The men, clearly, responded differently. Or, at least, 50% of them did. So, for some men, an opportunity to have sex, regardless of who it is, is an opportunity they would take. For others, it isn't. 

Within a relationship, though, this means absolutely nothing because is _doesn't_ pertain to the difference in the levels of sexual drive between men and women, but _the type_ of sexual drive between men and women. We don't have the same drive, but our drives can be equal in the amount of desire we have.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> All I know is that most women can hold out waaaaay longer than us men when it comes to orgasims. And if we were told we couldn't have sex or masturbate for let's say two months we would be devastated & highly upset, whereas most women would be like - "ehhh no problem".


Yeah, because you know "most women" in this country personally and they've all confided their feelings about masturbation to you. 

:rofl:

Whatever. If my husband said we couldn't have sex for two months, and I couldn't masturbate, I'd go buy the most expensive and s!utty lingerie outfit I could find, wait til he came home from work and then walk up to the front door of the house and knock. And if, after opening the door, he still didn't want anything sexual, I'd immediately make him a doctor's appointment, and demand marriage counseling. I won't be told whether or not I can masturbate, nor will I be told when we will and will not have sex. 

I'm sure there are millions of other women like me. Heck, there's like, fifteen on this forum alone.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Which.............puts you in the _minority_.
> 
> And as far as those "stereotypes" go, no matter what the topic is those usually start because of a behavior pattern of some kind that gets repeated many times over and starts to become the norm. So when said topic gets brought up there are many many many people who get it and can relate to it.


CP, you're a bunch of words and accusations, but absolutely no proof. You've ignored the statistics and links I gave you, while you, yourself, haven't given an ounce of proof to back your claims. All you've said is that a bunch of sexless marriage books have been written, and a bunch of men on forums complain, and this or that comedian made this joke and everyone laughed, etc. Yet you discount the books written for women in sexless marriages, and the women on forums who complain about not getting enough sex in their marriage, etc. And you ignore actual proof, legitimate studies done that show that women(most of them) want, need, and enjoy sex. 

I'm really sad for you, that your marriage is so bad that you have to convince yourself it's the norm, when it isn't.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> I came across this excerpt on Google from a very famous book "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus", which might explain a few things.
> 
> _In short, women have to have nothing on their minds, must feel totally relaxed, and also feel loved to be in the mood. Men need to merely just think about sex to be in the mood for it._


Bull crap. I don't need the freaking stars to align just to be in the mood. In fact, when I'm the most stressed and anxious is usually when I haven't had a pounding in a few days and need one the most, and those are, often, the sexual trysts that are the most satisfying. 

I, personally, don't by a word of that statement. It's statements like that that make women feel abnormal when they want sex all the time, and, imo, is one of the primary factors in women not wanting sex as much. If they were encouraged to embrace their sexual drive, rather than ignore or deny it, there would be even more than 50% of couples who have a satisfying sex life. 

I agree with Holland, the women who want sex and enjoy it are the majority.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> "Sexually strong women" are scarce.
> 
> Women who claim to be sexually strong remind me of jailhouse religious converts.
> 
> ...


I'm starting to think you and CP are the same poster. You both make the same claims, and yet show absolutely no proof to back up these "facts". If they're facts, there will be proof. Others have offered many, many links to show the opposite of what you claim.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> One spouse DECIDES to use sex as a weapon...usually the female spouse.
> 
> Its not as simple as "Hey honey you cut back on sex lets get back to what works for both of us...."
> 
> ...


NOT true. Sure, one spouse can use sex as a weapon. But the one who lets the first spouse get away with it is even more at fault. Staying married to a spouse who uses sex as a weapon, and then refuses to increase sexual frequency even after the issues are supposed to be resolved, condones the act of using sex as a weapon. They have no one to blame but themselves at that point.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> What I am implying is that a spouse who's gender is predisposed to not missing sex


This explains it: there's no such thing as a gender being "predisposed" to not wanting sex. 

Everything else after this part is irrelevant, considering this very untrue, unfounded statement.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Trying.....YES THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS.
> 
> Why haven't you figured out yet that you cannot force your wife to want to have sex with you?
> 
> You can accept her terms, or you can leave. That's your two choices. Not sure why you are still hammering on it.


Exactly. And this applies to every other major issue in marriage. A spouse won't stop having affairs? Even after counseling and years of trying to make it work? Divorce is the next step. A spouse won't stop beating on his wife and kids? Even after a separation and counseling? Divorce is the next step. Spouse won't stop spending money on crap and continues to put the family into debt? Divorce is the next step. Spouse refuses to increase sexual frequency, even after years of trying to work it out? Divorce is the next step.

Why? Because choosing to stay with someone who acts in these ways only *reinforces* that behavior. If there's no consequences, there's no incentive for change. It's why children are grounded when they misbehave; without a consequence, they will keep misbehaving.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I have figured out I cannot FORCE her, however I CAN convince her that what she is doing is WRONG and that she needs to meet me in the middle. Time, patience and a certain amount of convincing fits the bill here.


But if women just don't want sex, what hope is there? 



> She does realize SEX is important, there is no debate about that.


Oh, so women can realize the importance of sex, in general, it's just not important to _them_?



> So yes it is sort of an in-house therapy session... to which she will come around and WANT sex with me again.


But if women are predisposed to not want sex, then how do you know that she will want sex again? Or, I'm sorry, sex with _you_?



> The reason I still hammer on it... is because that is what it takes. It takes consistent unrelenting effort to turn a sexless marriage around.


But if the gender just doesn't want it, by nature, then you're advocating changing a woman's natural biological desires?



> Just remember she is free to leave at any point... she doesn't because she knows the outcome already. Her becoming sexual with me again.... its a foregone conclusion.


What's the outcome of her leaving you? If she, biologically, doesn't want sex and doesn't care about it, then her leaving would accomplish her getting what she wants...a celibate life. 



> She will accept my terms... for life now as an ongoing sexual marriage.


Are you sure? Women don't like sex, you know...maybe she won't choose you in the end since, as you have said, it's a fact that women don't care about sex. 



> Its worth it to give 4 to get a lifetime and not be the typical sexless marriage statistic.


But you ARE a typical sexless marriage statistic. And, according to you, that's biologically natural for women. How can you change nature? How can you alter what someone was, physically, born with? Moreover, if it is really biological, whose to say she even is in the wrong? Maybe it's _you_ who should change _your_ biological makeup and want sex less?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> But if women just don't want sex, what hope is there?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


.....and the average woman does not desire sex as much as the average man.

Now that that *fact* is stated.

What were you saying?

I don't believe all your female friends were telling you the truth either and many of them likely have sex issues they don't talk to you about.... thats no fun.

Better to claim they are all sex goddesses.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> .....and the average woman does not desire sex as much as the average man.
> 
> Now that that *fact* is stated.
> 
> What were you saying?


_Precisely_. You can't even argue in favor of your own ideals and opinions. You contradict yourself at every turn. If the things you say really were fact, you would have addressed my points one by one. 

And I see, on your blog, it's been over a month since you last posted. Only your Introduction is there, and that's what I read when I last visited your blog. 

So much for resolving your sexless marriage. I say you are sexless still.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> _Precisely_. You can't even argue in favor of your own ideals and opinions. You contradict yourself at every turn. If the things you say really were fact, you would have addressed my points one by one.
> 
> And I see, on your blog, it's been over a month since you last posted. Only your Introduction is there, and that's what I read when I last visited your blog.
> 
> So much for resolving your sexless marriage. I say you are sexless still.


I don't argue with someone who has no idea of actual reality.... its pointless.

As for my blog whatever I'll update it when its ready...its my blog.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Thought so. lol. 

As for me, I'm done arguing against people who made ridiculous claims and then refuse to back them up with evidence. No actual scientist or researcher or counselor or analyst would be taken seriously at all if they made claims without evidence. They'd quickly become the laughing stock of their industry. If they, who have degrees in their fields, can't get away with it, then amateurs like us can't either. It's clear that any "reality" and "facts" presented in this thread were supported by more than one statistic given. 

And now, I'm going to go put on some lingerie and bang my husband. He's had a rough day at work, and after sending him some pretty lewd text messages earlier today, I think he will be raging with passion by the time he walks through the door.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Thought so. lol.
> 
> As for me, I'm done arguing against people who made ridiculous claims and then refuse to back them up with evidence. No actual scientist or researcher or counselor or analyst would be taken seriously at all if they made claims without evidence. They'd quickly become the laughing stock of their industry. If they, who have degrees in their fields, can't get away with it, then amateurs like us can't either. It's clear that any "reality" and "facts" presented in this thread were supported by more than one statistic given.
> 
> And now, I'm going to go put on some lingerie and bang my husband. He's had a rough day at work, and after sending him some pretty lewd text messages earlier today, I think he will be raging with passion by the time he walks through the door.


Good for you I'm sure he loves you for who you are. We are all ...oh so jealous of you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> I don't argue with someone who has no idea of actual reality.... its pointless


I think that's why Holland and I, as well as a few others stopped arguing with you as well.... it's pointless.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Same here. I still fondly recall her coming to my house for the weekend, and immediately taking each others clothes off to get going, having lots of wake up sex, before bed sex, middle of the day sex. Having sex on her couch while her kids and their friends were upstairs was a highlight (especially when I had to put my hand over her mouth when she was screaming in delight).
> 
> Flip side is that she was a nut job, and any issues that I have with my wife now would be multiplied by infinity with her.


This was my girlfriend before I met my wife. I think we must have been seeing the same girl, lol.

Freak in bed (and everywhere else) ... and a complete nut job.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> The point completely flew over your head. Nobody is writing books on how to fix the good marriages. You must know that, right? It's the people in bad situations that are complaining and for whom books are being written. The vast majority don't have the problems you're complaining about, and the reason you don't hear about them is because they're not complaining.


Exactly. Actually recently, I've heard more women make derogatory comments about their sex life than men. However, most people don't say anything and when I meet them with their spouse most seem perfectly happy. I'm completely jealous, lol.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> If I am incorrect or lying or whatever; then whyyyyy is it almost always MEN on tv talk shows - message boards - magazine articles - or radio call in shows who are complaining about not getting any or getting enough? Everytime a thread goes up on here about not getting enough 9 out of 10 times it's written by us.............MEN.


well, am a guy, and I can assure you that we men spend most of the times more vocal as compared to ladies who share their stories via other means especially if the topics are about SEX! 

and what happens normally to women who voice out issues about the hubbies having LD? I am pretty sure some/many will call her degrading names for just wanting a healthy sexual relationship, no? as compared to guys who wants more sex and they get to be called a stud?

nevertheless, I can assure you that we all face similar issues, the only difference for ladies is that many don't feel nice spilling out bedroom stories for the whole world to see...

and it is particularly easier to stereotype ladies and to put the blame on them that we, the Men, are always the healthy ones while they, the ladies, are always having issues with LD bla bla bla... 

I stand to be corrected


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> CP, you're a bunch of words and accusations, but absolutely no proof. You've ignored the statistics and links I gave you, while you, yourself, haven't given an ounce of proof to back your claims. All you've said is that a bunch of sexless marriage books have been written, and a bunch of men on forums complain, and this or that comedian made this joke and everyone laughed, etc. Yet you discount the books written for women in sexless marriages, and the women on forums who complain about not getting enough sex in their marriage, etc. And you ignore actual proof, legitimate studies done that show that women(most of them) want, need, and enjoy sex.
> 
> I'm really sad for you, that your marriage is so bad that you have to convince yourself it's the norm, when it isn't.


Here's what frustrates me about you and where you don't get it. Johnny Carson, comedian Kathy Griffin, or writers from those magazines & books that I quoted from do NOT live in the same house - town - or even state as me! They come from all over the freakin place and don't even know me, and are simply writing articles and quoting punchlines soley based on COMMON KNOWLEDGE of what is actually going on in life and in a lot of marriages! And FYI these "people" that I actually do know personally; I did not give birth too either nor do I have any control of their lives what so ever, and they also come in all different shapes & sizes & backgrounds, and have all complained at one time or another that their wives or girlfriends did not enjoy having sex as much as they do! So this is WHERE my info is gathered from: personal experiences, locals talking about it, and from people NATIONALLY who have either wrote or joked about it based on all that they've seen and heard!

So again I applaud you and the other "handful" of ladies on here who love having sex like us men do, but at the same time I am surprised to be reading it because it's NOT the norm most everywhere else. If it was the norm it wouldn't have made it's way into becoming a common stereotype being talked about and written about by people - EVERYWHERE.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

But it is being written and talked about everywhere, your choosing to ignore the fact that the majority of women enjoy sex CP makes no difference to the reality.

I know it is confronting to embrace the fact that women are very sexual beings especially as you are in a sexually dysfunctional marriage, but try to see that you are jaded by your experience and break free. Man if I let my past marriage influence my thoughts I would think all men are LD, I know that isn't true.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> But it is being written and talked about everywhere, your choosing to ignore the fact that the majority of women enjoy sex CP makes no difference to the reality.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well once there's a "not tonight honey I have a headache" joke that's been around for about 40 years written about _men_ (that pertains to sex), then please feel free to point it out to me.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Sorry I get my reality from reality. A joke is an immature way to form an opinion on any topic. It's no different to the blonde jokes or ones about the Irish, Jews etc. Jokes are not factual and often written based on someone's bias.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Holland said:


> Why does sex stop in marriage, either one of the partners returns to their true self which is LD, is selfish and will not step up for their mate.
> Or one partner resents, dislikes and is turned off by the other for whatever reason.


:iagree::smthumbup: A good summary, mrs Holland!


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> Sorry I get my reality from reality. A joke is an immature way to form an opinion on any topic. It's no different to the blonde jokes or ones about the Irish, Jews etc. Jokes are not factual and often written based on someone's bias.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most of the time comedy, jokes, or famous sayings come from.....wait for it...........REAL life experiences.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I have heard a few women talk about how they don't want their partner to touch them anymore, not really heard any say they're not really interested in.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Holland said:


> But it is being written and talked about everywhere, your choosing to ignore the fact that the majority of women enjoy sex CP makes no difference to the reality.
> 
> I know it is confronting to embrace the fact that women are very sexual beings especially as you are in a sexually dysfunctional marriage, but try to see that you are jaded by your experience and break free. Man if I let my past marriage influence my thoughts I would think all men are LD, I know that isn't true.


bottomline, can I say that the media wish to highlight the plight of men more than women due to taboo or gender inequality or downright prejudice against women who voice out regarding sex?
speaking of which, how many ladies from those conservative bringing up/countries are even able to voice out?

again, there is no right and wrong to your statement. just look at porn, they were initially made for men, not women. but it is definitely good to know that women are now beginning to voice out their wants and needs


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

TiggyBlue said:


> I have heard a few women talk about how they don't want their partner to touch them anymore, not really heard any say they're not really interested in.


I agree, and think this has got something to do with the hatred against their partners rather than not having any libido to make out...


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

And let's not forget about these and several other medicines out there like it. They were all created for *men* and whyyyyy - so that we could stay erect and stay horny for longer periods of time, because of the fact we enjoy sex that much and will do anything to enhance it.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

TiggyBlue said:


> I have heard a few women talk about how they don't want their partner to touch them anymore, not really heard any say they're not really interested in.


Ok, I wasn't going to say it, but I will. That "not tonight honey, I have a headache" joke? Yea, it likely originated from a woman. I will concede that. However, I'd guess it wasn't a woman who didn't like sex at all, but more likely a woman who was getting it on with the mailman or the milkman. 

But what do I know? I'm just an abnormal woman who admits that she likes sex.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> And let's not forget about these and several other medicines out there like it. They were all created for *men* and whyyyyy - so that we could stay erect and stay horny for longer periods of time, because of the fact we enjoy sex that much and will do anything to enhance it.


Gee, and I thought it was so they could keep up with their wives... you know, those women who don't like sex? Go figure.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> And let's not forget about these and several other medicines out there like it. They were all created for *men* and whyyyyy - so that we could stay erect and stay horny for longer periods of time, because of the fact we enjoy sex that much and will do anything to enhance it.


haha
and the fact still remains that there is no pink magical pill to boost the women's libido...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

malmale said:


> haha
> and the fact still remains that there is no pink magical pill to boost the women's libido...


I don't like pink. I prefer blue.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

That proves what?
Considering Viagra was initially created to treat high blood pressure and heart disease (erection was a side effect) it seems Viagra for erections was stumbled upon rather than created for it really proves nothing.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

malmale said:


> haha
> and the fact still remains that there is no pink magical pill to boost the women's libido...


That's being worked on


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

TiggyBlue said:


> That proves what?
> Considering Viagra was initially created to treat high blood pressure and heart disease (erection was a side effect) it seems Viagra for erections was stumbled upon rather than created for it really proves nothing.


yeah, and an overly erected penis has got nothing to do with a person being overly horny...


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

malmale said:


> haha
> and the fact still remains that there is no pink magical pill to boost the women's libido...


If there was they'd go out of business because of lack of interest in taking them. :rofl:


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> If there was they'd go out of business because of lack of interest in taking them. :rofl:


haha
beg to differ, just look at the amount of Spanish flies, pheromones, some crap voodoo charms which are all supposed to boost the women's libido instantly...

and the reason why the interest in such products dwindle is because all of the above do not work


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> If there was they'd go out of business because of lack of interest in taking them. :rofl:


Probably true if someone is just avoiding having sex with their partner.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

And I already brought up the fact that statistics clearly show Playboy completely out sold Playgirl 10 to 1, and men are always the primary ones that troll for prostitutes, and most porno in hotels is ordered by MEN on business trips or even on vacation. 

Buuuuut of course that was all dismissed as mere nonsense and ignored even though it's totally true, and it was a great example of the different sexual appetites between men and women.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> And I already brought up the fact that statistics clearly show Playboy completely out sold Playgirl 10 to 1, and men are always the primary ones that troll for prostitutes, and most porno in hotels is ordered by MEN on business trips or even on vacation.
> 
> Buuuuut of course that was all dismissed as mere nonsense and ignored even though it's totally true, and it was a great example of the different sexual appetites between men and women.


haha 
am not going to deny what you have posted, but am for sure that, very soon, the figures will definitely even up 

like what I have mentioned before, till the day the society rid itself off this stigma that only men can openly talk about sex while women who are interested in sex are BAD, you wont see any improvements in terms of women sharing any of their bedroom details 

furthermore, we males love visual stimulation, I can easily see a naked women and get turned on instantly. where as for women, while size may vary, a guy with a d*ck is just another guy with a d*ick. there is nothing special and emotionally stimulating enough for them to get turned on

but at least, on the bright side, there is still 1 in the 10-1 ratio, so all is not lost


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

malmale said:


> haha
> am not going to deny what you have posted, but am for sure that, very soon, the figures will definitely even up
> 
> like what I have mentioned before, till the day the society rid itself off this stigma that only men can openly talk about sex while women who are interested in sex are BAD, you wont see any improvements in terms of women sharing any of their bedroom details


It's not a "bad stigma" with me, and my ex and I shared some of the dirtiest and kinkiest sex you could imagine and I totally LOVED her for that and.............encouraged it.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Do you have any idea how unattractive playgirl is to many women?
Most of the men looked gay.

But considering the rise in females watching porn since better looking actors (who actually look like they know how to please a women) has risen I would say it's more due to the fact that porn/mags have been catered to men in the past 
(how many women want to watch a old man in a position that you know would just be hitting your cervix, massive turn off).

I've watched porn since I was 12 (god bless free porn with no adult lock), many of my friends watched porn.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

the problem with porn is that, the pretty girl who opens the door to find a cute postman standing there and there is this instant connection in both their minds to F each other's brains to kingdom come...

same with Disney, there is no happily ever after in anything as contrary to all of those fairy tales


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> It's not a "bad stigma" with me, and my ex and I shared some of the dirtiest and kinkiest sex you could imagine and I totally LOVED her for that and.............encouraged it.


good for you, but sad for you that such a gem is now ur ex


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Was is it that stereotypical jokes about women are obviously "based on reality" but similiar jokes about men bring up all kinds of ire and offense about how it's "slandering men."

Men don't like the depiction of "doofus Dad" that's prevalent in a lot of sitcoms (which was already mentioned in this thread) there's also - "Drink my whole paycheck before I get home Dad" and anything else you can think of. 

But those are based on reality - right? I mean, obviously, jokes have to be based on something. 

Also - Playgirl would perhaps do better if they paid better fan service. You know issues with celebrity men, the people chicks really want to see naked. But - they are rarely successful at doing that, and when they do get celebrity nude shots, they are usually not "legit" but are telephotos from paparazzi or outtakes from a movie, and the quality is crap. 

Men I think, are mentally capable of compartmentalizing sex in a way women can't. (Aren't men the ones who said "It didn't mean anything to me?") As has been droned on a million times on this thread, most women want/need an emotional connection to feel interested in sex. So - yeah, staring at pics of total strangers, eh, as is paying random strangers for sex. 

That may mean that men and women think about sex differently, but the whole "there's only three reasons women have sex" is total crap.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

in fact, must there be a reason for sex?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> I have heard a few women talk about how they don't want their partner to touch them anymore, not really heard any say they're not really interested in.


And you don't here many men say that. That is mostly a female trait.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

malmale said:


> haha
> and the fact still remains that there is no pink magical pill to boost the women's libido...


That's because its impossible. That tells you something right there.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> Was is it that stereotypical jokes about women are obviously "based on reality" but similiar jokes about men bring up all kinds of ire and offense about how it's "slandering men."
> 
> Men don't like the depiction of "doofus Dad" that's prevalent in a lot of sitcoms (which was already mentioned in this thread) there's also - "Drink my whole paycheck before I get home Dad" and anything else you can think of.
> 
> ...


So list more than three...

1, Childbirth
2. Marriage/dating
3. Peer pressure

,,and as soon as they feel comfortable... slow it down to a trickle.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Here's what frustrates me about you and where you don't get it. Johnny Carson, comedian Kathy Griffin, or writers from those magazines & books that I quoted from do NOT live in the same house - town - or even state as me! They come from all over the freakin place and don't even know me, and are simply writing articles and quoting punchlines soley based on COMMON KNOWLEDGE of what is actually going on in life and in a lot of marriages!


I've never argued this. Yes, there are a lot of marriages that are suffering from a woman's low sexual desire. Probably in the millions. 

And, by the way, you assume _a lot_ about me by implying that I think all these people know you. That's quite insulting, but then again, so are your opinions about women, so I'm not surprised. 



> And FYI these "people" that I actually do know personally; I did not give birth too either nor do I have any control of their lives what so ever, and they also come in all different shapes & sizes & backgrounds, and have all complained at one time or another that their wives or girlfriends did not enjoy having sex as much as they do! So this is WHERE my info is gathered from: personal experiences, locals talking about it, and from people NATIONALLY who have either wrote or joked about it based on all that they've seen and heard!


I'm not arguing this either. Yes, there are many, many marriages all across the country suffering from sexlessness because the wife isn't as interested in sex as her husband.



> So again I applaud you and the other "handful" of ladies on here who love having sex like us men do, but at the same time I am surprised to be reading it because it's NOT the norm most everywhere else.


And this is what bothers me about you: you absolutely don't provide any proof of what is, supposed to be, "the norm", whereas I have have given many different links...all of which you've ignored. I don't know why you're determined to remain ignorant about female sexuality; maybe it justifies your negative opinions of women...I don't know. But it's really sad. If I were a man who'd had many experiences with women not liking sex, and then saw four or five different studies presented which state that at least half of all women love sex and want it, I would be thrilled! I would be glad to see that my experience wasn't the norm. 

Now, again, don't misunderstand me(as you keep doing). I'm not saying that the majority of women are _all_ going to want sex just as much as men, if not more. I can't make the statement, as it would take a massive study to come to that conclusion. But, I _do_ believe that the majority of women enjoy and want sex. How much? I can't answer that question; I'm sure we would see many different kinds of sexual desire: women who love sex and enjoy it a few times a week, women who love and enjoy sex every other day, women who love and enjoy sex every day, women who want it twice a day, women who can't get enough, women who enjoy various positions, women who enjoy stripping and role play, women who love being pounded, women who become sexual fiends when with their man....But as far as the exact level of desire, I can't say what each women is going to enjoy. 

But studies show that, at least, half of all women enjoy and want sex frequently, and that half of all marriages/couples report having a satisfying sex life. That tells me that women, the majority of them, _do_ want and enjoy sex. Could their SO's want it more? Sure, they could. But they could also want it just as much as their SO. 



> If it was the norm it wouldn't have made it's way into becoming a common stereotype being talked about and written about by people - EVERYWHERE.


Not so. Stereotypes are NOT always true. They may be based on some common occurrences, but they are not always "the norm". In fact, stereotypes can be outright untrue.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> And let's not forget about these and several other medicines out there like it. They were all created for *men* and whyyyyy - so that we could stay erect and stay horny for longer periods of time, because of the fact we enjoy sex that much and will do anything to enhance it.


So, because Viagra exists it MUST mean that men want sex more? :rofl:

Dude, there are medications for women to be able to have sex too, particularly hormonal balancing pills, estrogen pills, testosterone pills, etc.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

"I'm sure we would see many different kinds of sexual desire: women who love sex and enjoy it a few times a week, women who love and enjoy sex every other day, women who love and enjoy sex every day, women who want it twice a day, women who can't get enough, women who enjoy various positions, women who enjoy stripping and role play, women who love being pounded, women who become sexual fiends when with their man....But as far as the exact level of desire, I can't say what each women is going to enjoy."

*So a "majority of woman" at the BARE MINIMUM want sex "a few times a week" and most of that group more than twice a day!*

Do you realize how ridiculous that statement of yours is?

That is why we don't take you at all seriously...you talk a good game but your views are simply not rooted in any sort of reality.

Just own up to the fact we are all correct...

Men like sex more than women and want it much more often...on average.

Men find lack of sex more of a concern than women... on average (after kids)

Its not that hard to understand. Open your eyes to THE WORLD.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> If there was they'd go out of business because of lack of interest in taking them. :rofl:


You know what's ironic? Back in the 1500's and 1600's, when women were being told that sex was something that only men were supposed to enjoy, do you know who was saying those things? MEN! And now millions of men suffer from a lack of sex in their marriage. 


Go figure. 


But, even worse than that, instead of embracing women's sexuality and trying to right the wrong, you're determined to keep women locked in their cage of sexual limitations...."No! Only the MAN should want it more! It's not normal for women to want it as much as men!" 


Maybe the next generation of men will learn better.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> I've never argued this. Yes, there are a lot of marriages that are suffering from a woman's low sexual desire. Probably in the millions.
> 
> And, by the way, you assume _a lot_ about me by implying that I think all these people know you. That's quite insulting, but then again, so are your opinions about women, so I'm not surprised.
> 
> ...


I respect most of this post just so you know and I do get where you're coming from. As far as stereotypes go; there's one about men that we like to scratch ourselves on the couch - watching the ball game - while having a cold one. And where did that sterotype come from.......................millions of guys who do this or have done it(myself included).


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> And I already brought up the fact that statistics clearly show Playboy completely out sold Playgirl 10 to 1, and men are always the primary ones that troll for prostitutes, and most porno in hotels is ordered by MEN on business trips or even on vacation.
> 
> Buuuuut of course that was all dismissed as mere nonsense and ignored even though it's totally true, and it was a great example of the different sexual appetites between men and women.


It was ignored because it was all _your own word_ without a link to the information. How are we supposed to know it really was true? 

But when others post links to back our opinions, you really did ignore them.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> It was ignored because it was all _your own word_ without a link to the information. How are we supposed to know it really was true?
> 
> But when others post links to back our opinions, you really did ignore them.


I have posted legitimate links and articles many times, but once I saw they were being overlooked and ignored I thought why bother going through the trouble of looking them up.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> Do you have any idea how unattractive playgirl is to many women?
> Most of the men looked gay.
> 
> But considering the rise in females watching porn since better looking actors (who actually look like they know how to please a women) has risen I would say it's more due to the fact that porn/mags have been catered to men in the past
> ...


Plus, no one has been saying that a woman's sexual drive is the same as a man's, like CP keeps trying to disprove. So, because women don't watch as much porn, or because they don't pay for prostitutes, or because they don't buy playgirl, it MUST mean that women don't want sex as much as men.  No, it just means that our sexuality if DIFFERENT! We're NOT always going to want the exact same things, but we CAN desire actual sex as much as a man. THAT has been the point, but he keeps arguing stuff that no one has said.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Plus, no one has been saying that a woman's sexual drive is the same as a man's, like CP keeps trying to disprove. So, because women don't watch as much porn, or because they don't pay for prostitutes, or because they don't buy playgirl, it MUST mean that women don't want sex as much as men.  No, it just means that our sexuality if DIFFERENT! We're NOT always going to want the exact same things, but we CAN desire actual sex as much as a man. THAT has been the point, but he keeps arguing stuff that no one has said.


The problem is that most women _think_ about sex a lot, whereas men think and then ACT upon it wether it's trying to sleep with our partner or finding a nice private place to masturbate.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> But those are based on reality - right? I mean, obviously, jokes have to be based on something.


Like most stereotypes, that one does have roots in reality, just like the stereotype of women as bad drivers did. 

In the early days of automobiles when they were started with a hand crank; when things like choke and spark advance were controlled by levers and flat tires and break downs were at least a weekly occurrence, a lot of women either did not learn to drive at all or only learned late in life. This was generations ago and that stereotype is horribly unfair today, because women excel at eye-hand coordination, and nobody has to think about things like manual spark advance today. 

Similarly, the stereotype of men as domestic disasters who are lost in a grocery store, can't cook a simple meal and can't take care of a sick child even if they wanted to does have roots in reality, but it was a reality generations ago when gender roles were more strongly defined and large segments of the male population had been shipped off to face some fairly horrible experiences and came back damaged in many ways. That stereotype has morphed into one of general male stupidity and I'd be lying if I said it's not irritating. Men and women are about as dead even when it comes to intelligence as it's statistically possible to be.

I don't know this, but would guess that for a woman, the most irritating thing about the stereotype under discussion here is that there's just enough random, outrageous examples for a man who's already unhappy to pounce on.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> "I'm sure we would see many different kinds of sexual desire: women who love sex and enjoy it a few times a week, women who love and enjoy sex every other day, women who love and enjoy sex every day, women who want it twice a day, women who can't get enough, women who enjoy various positions, women who enjoy stripping and role play, women who love being pounded, women who become sexual fiends when with their man....But as far as the exact level of desire, I can't say what each women is going to enjoy."
> 
> *So a "majority of woman" at the BARE MINIMUM want sex "a few times a week" and most of that group more than twice a day!*
> 
> ...


You clearly didn't read my post, because you misunderstood the point entirely. But, I don't think you even want to understand my point. For some reason, it's better in your world for men to always be oppressed by women, instead of having a fulfilling sex life with someone who can't get enough. 

Some of the best sex I've ever had, I had last night. I'd like to thank this thread, in a weird way, because it revealed to me over and over again how lucky I am to be married to the man I have. He isn't threatened by my sexuality and whether or not I might want it more than him sometimes; he doesn't see me as some biological time clock that he better fVck as much as he can now, before kids come along and I decide to utterly ignore him; or a biological time clock that wants it all the time, but will soon "slow to a trickle"; he sees me as a regular women, with thoughts and feelings, who worships his amazing body and his even more amazing abilities as a lover. Seeing him in that light made our time together last night some of the best sex we've ever had. 

I swear, if he adopted even a small percentage of the opinions that CP and T2 hold about women, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. I wouldn't respect him at all, and I can't fVck a man I don't respect.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> I respect most of this post just so you know and I do get where you're coming from. As far as stereotypes go; there's one about men that we like to scratch ourselves on the couch - watching the ball game - while having a cold one. And where did that sterotype come from.......................millions of guys who do this or have done it(myself included).


So?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> I have posted legitimate links and articles many times, but once I saw they were being overlooked and ignored I thought why bother going through the trouble of looking them up.


I haven't seen you post even one in this thread, CP. I'll go back and look in case I missed them, and if I did, I'll address them. I'd appreciate it if you did the same with the links I provided.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

_"I swear, if he adopted even a small percentage of the opinions that CP and T2 hold about women, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. I wouldn't respect him at all, and I can't fVck a man I don't respect."_

Hey to each his/her own and that's your opinion; but I bet I could come up with at least 20 women in my life that would argue with you and say what an awesome guy I am or can be. And their opinions count 100% because they actually KNOW me and have interracted with me regularly.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> The problem is that most women _think_ about sex a lot, whereas men think and then ACT upon it wether it's trying to sleep with our partner or finding a nice private place to masturbate.


Oh, so now you'll concede that women _think_ about sex a lot, but then they don't actually act on it? 

What a load of bull. And, again, no proof. Just your word, that we're all supposed to follow blindly.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Oh, so now you'll concede that women _think_ about sex a lot, but then they don't actually act on it?
> 
> What a load of bull. And, again, no proof. Just your word, that we're all supposed to follow blindly.


Really? Because I posted that same type of quote or notion from a verrrrrrrrry famous book("Men are from Mars and women are from Venus"), but again what do all the people who write those silly books know and we should all follow YOUR lead instead.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> Like most stereotypes, that one does have roots in reality, just like the stereotype of women as bad drivers did.
> 
> In the early days of automobiles when they were started with a hand crank; when things like choke and spark advance were controlled by levers and flat tires and break downs were at least a weekly occurrence, a lot of women either did not learn to drive at all or only learned late in life. This was generations ago and that stereotype is horribly unfair today, because women excel at eye-hand coordination, and nobody has to think about things like manual spark advance today.
> 
> ...


Well that, and that those men allow those outrageous examples to define their opinion of an entire gender. Regardless of how many studies have been provided here to show that the majority of heterosexual couples have satisfying sexual lives, and that the majority of women want sex, they still insist that, no, most women don't/can't want sex...and then list a slew of ridiculous reasons: comedians make jokes that people find funny, and all the men I know experienced this, and all the books written about men and sexless marriages, and women are biologically predisposed to not want sex, and yet, I'm going to make my wife deny her biological makeup and want sex with me anyway. 

It's massively insulting. As a woman, I wouldn't even talk to a man after I knew he had those views, let alone have sex with them.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> _"I swear, if he adopted even a small percentage of the opinions that CP and T2 hold about women, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. I wouldn't respect him at all, and I can't fVck a man I don't respect."_
> 
> Hey to each his/her own and that's your opinion; but I bet I could come up with at least 20 women in my life that would argue with you and say what an awesome guy I am or can be. And their opinions count 100% because they actually KNOW me and have interracted with me regularly.


And, once you know most women in this world personally and have had sex with all of them, _then_ you can keep commenting on their sexuality.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I still feel that things would be a lot different if the world viewed women's sexuality the same way as they view men's sexuality.I think you'd find more and more women showing that they're very much into frequent sex,provided the man isn't utter garbage in the sack.
As things stand,a highly sexual woman isn't considered desirable so it stays hidden til the habit of hiding becomes her true reality.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> Really? Because I posted that same type of quote or notion from a verrrrrrrrry famous book("Men are from Mars and women are from Venus"), but again what do all the people who write those silly books know and we should all follow YOUR lead instead.


CP, you're ignoring so many factors, it's like we keep going in circles. I don't agree with that book. It was written in the early '90s and based on this idea that women aren't hardwired to want sex. I beg to differ. It's books exactly like that one that make women feel abnormal and weird and strange if they realize they want sex all the time. Now, I'm sure the writer had good intentions, and personal experience to justify his points, but again, look at the date it was written...it was, and still is, widely accepted that women simply aren't going to enjoy sex or want it as much as men. And then men wonder why their wives won't have sex with them! We've been told for countless decades that it's "odd" for a woman to have a high sex drive. And people only believe that because it's what they've been told. 

If we actually opened our minds to the possibility that _maybe_ that writer, and other writers like him, were mistaken, and that women _could_ be able to want and enjoy sex as much as men, I think we would see a massive change in our marriages. I'm lucky in that I have a fantastic husband who celebrates my sexuality, and gives me freedom to express it. And I think, deep down, a lot of men in these sexless marriages want that with their wives as well, but then they tout these crazy books about how women have to have a clean house, and clean sheets, and the dinners washed and put away, and the kids in bed, and then a nice backrub and a glass of wine before she can be open to sex, and they wonder why their wives take forever to get in the mood!

Clearly that book and others like it aren't working to fix the HD/LD predicament. Perhaps it's time for a different direction?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I still feel that things would be a lot different if the world viewed women's sexuality the same way as they view men's sexuality.I think you'd find more and more women showing that they're very much into frequent sex,provided the man isn't utter garbage in the sack.
> As things stand,a highly sexual woman isn't considered desirable so it stays hidden til the habit of hiding becomes her true reality.


Exactly.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

One thing I will say about that book that I agree with, is the idea that men and women approach sex differently, and that our actual sexuality is different. I agree with that, and I think science proves this. But as for our level of sexual desire, I think we are just as capable as wanting sex as much as men do, and I think the majority of women would fall into that category if, as Scarlet said, we were given the chance to on a wide scale. If a woman was no longer a s!ut if she was highly sexual, things might be different.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> It's massively insulting. As a woman, I wouldn't even talk to a man after I knew he had those views, let alone have sex with them.


I can see that it's insulting but speaking as a man who put up with 25 years of sexlessness in an otherwise amicable relationship, I can't tell you how easy it is to see random examples (Like women high-fiving each other for avoiding "Good-bye" sex with their husbands prior to a business trip) as confirmation of his worst suspicions about women.

It's only been with the help of TAM that I've gotten over some of the bitterness and started to see things differently.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ocotillo said:


> I can see that it's insulting but speaking as a man who put up with 25 years of sexlessness in an otherwise amicable relationship, I can't tell you how easy it is to see random examples (Like women high-fiving each other for avoiding "Good-bye" sex with their husbands prior to a business trip) as confirmation of his worst suspicions about women.
> 
> It's only been with the help of TAM that I've gotten over some of the bitterness and started to see things differently.


I understand that. I can't believe that women actually would do that...highfive each other over avoiding sex with their husbands. If I had been there, I'd have slapped them. That is SO disrespectful. And 25 years of sexlessness....wow. I can't even begin to imagine. 

I'm glad that TAM has helped. At least you were willing to see things differently.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> And you don't here many men say that. That is mostly a female trait.


I have no idea, I'm not a man and don't know what men say to each other when their only around other men so it would be pointless to say.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I still feel that things would be a lot different if the world viewed women's sexuality the same way as they view men's sexuality.I think you'd find more and more women showing that they're very much into frequent sex,provided the man isn't utter garbage in the sack.
> As things stand,a highly sexual woman isn't considered desirable so it stays hidden til the habit of hiding becomes her true reality.


No. A highly sexually woman IS desireable. What isn't desireable among many non-swingers is a highly sexual woman who is sharing that with just about everybody.

Remember, if you will not eat off the same plate or drink after the person, why would you sleep with them?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Why are so many men losing their sex drive? Men are now more likely to refuse sex than women - and doctors blame everything from the recession to toxins | Mail Online
> 
> 
> 
> 12 Reasons Your Man Doesn't Want to Have Sex Anymore | The Stir


Here are two studies.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

treyvion said:


> No. A highly sexually woman IS desireable. What isn't desireable among many non-swingers is a highly sexual woman who is sharing that with just about everybody.
> 
> Remember, if you will not eat off the same plate or drink after the person, why would you sleep with them?


But that's the problem,for some reason people have it in their heads that it's cool for a man to run around "sharing that" with just about everybody but it isn't cool suddenly when a highly sexual woman does it.

That needs to change along with the notion that just bc a woman is highly sexual with one man she automatically must have been highly sexual with all men.

It forces women to be extremely protective of their REAL desires for sex until they repress it so much that it stops being part of them.

I'm not saying you think these things by the way.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> ( Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Sexless Statistics )


There's another.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> In addition to the apparent sex fiend tam ladies lol
> 
> there are these ladies:
> 
> Sex Confessions: 13 Women Who Want Sex More Than Their Male Partners Share Their Stories


And another.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> But that's the problem,for some reason people have it in their heads that it's cool for a man to run around "sharing that" with just about everybody but it isn't cool suddenly when a highly sexual woman does it.
> 
> That needs to change along with the notion that just bc a woman is highly sexual with one man she automatically must have been highly sexual with all men.
> 
> ...


Women need to stop giving s_l_u_t_t_y men extra credit. It's not my fault. It's not responsible no matter the gender, and do you really want someone whose been sharing that with just about anyone?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Women need to stop giving ****ty men extra credit. It's not my fault.


no one blamed you,that's why I put the sentence at the bottom.

As for the extra credit thing,I don't know what that means.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> That's what people said about Copernicus when he had this idea that the Earth was NOT at the center of the solar system, much less the universe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More VERY interesting articles.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Just a note about biology and sex drive...have you heard about bonobos? Here's a clip from the intro of a book on them:
> 
> "This remarkable primate with the curious name is challenging established views on human evolution. The bonobo, least known of the great apes, is a female-centered, egalitarian species that has been dubbed the "make-love-not-war" primate by specialists. In bonobo society, females form alliances to intimidate males, sexual behavior (in virtually every partner combination) replaces aggression and serves many social functions, and unrelated groups mingle instead of fighting. The species's most striking achievement is not tool use or warfare but sensitivity to others.
> 
> ...


And another.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> For kingsfan...maybe I'm not so unique.
> 
> Turns Out Women Have Really, Really Strong Sex Drives: Can Men Handle It? - Hugo Schwyzer - The Atlantic


And yet another.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Women need to stop giving s_l_u_t_t_y men extra credit. It's not my fault. It's not responsible no matter the gender, and do you really want someone whose been sharing that with just about anyone?


I still don't get that.What is extra credit?? 

sl*tty men are given breaks by other men as well as women.We're programmed to look down on a woman who is free with her body but we're programmed to admire a man who is that way.

It isn't about wanting or not wanting someone who has been sharing it with just about anyone.It's about the fact that people have the notion that just bc a woman shows her sexuality that she's automatically a sl*t.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Here's another website: Sex Statistics - Sexual Health Statistics and Information - Woman's Day


And another.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Trying2figureitout said:


> .....and the average woman does not desire sex as much as the average man.
> 
> Now that that *fact* is stated.
> 
> ...


Right, because you know my friends better than I do, and I've known them for over ten years.  :rofl: Keep sticking your head in the sand, and see how that works out for you.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Cee Paul said:


> I have posted legitimate links and articles many times, but once I saw they were being overlooked and ignored I thought why bother going through the trouble of looking them up.


No you haven't. I went through the whole thread. You haven't posted a single link, or a single article at all.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I've given other reasons women have sex on this thread, but let's cover some others:

4 - Emotional connection

5 - Genuine desire for physical pleasure

6 - Feeling an obligation towards the partner


And given the talk of porn and prostitutes frequently on TAM:

7 - For money


I mean doesn't the existence of porn make you realize there must be more than three reasons for women to have sex? Or are porn actresses trying to get pregnant, get married, or are they peer pressured into it? Because if its none of those, then there must be -at minimum- a phantom fourth reason for women to have sex ... right? 

My husband recently had a bout of a medical problem that was causing things to be off "down there" (turned out to be a raging bladder infection, likely because he seriously never drinks like any water). Had to have an outpatient surgery thing. When I sat around in the waiting room, waiting to hear the diagnosis I didn't think "Oh thank God, now he won't bother me for sex anymore" - I cried. I cried about the idea if something was long-term wrong, and how I'd handle that. And though I'm not really in a spiritual place right now, I thanked God when it all worked out. 

So yes, when people throw out all these ideas about how women are this, and women are there - its maddening. Women are not caricatures. If you approach any group of people with per-conceived notions about how they -all- are like this, or like that - I think you'll end up getting a self-fulfilling prophecy. You'll end up focusing in on and seeing the behaviors you expect to see above and beyond any examples that contradict your expectations. Which you'll simply dismiss as "not the norm."


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Starstarfish said:


> I've given other reasons women have sex on this thread, but let's cover some others:
> 
> 4 - Emotional connection
> 
> ...


VERY well said. I agree entirely. 

Personally, I can think of many different reasons why I have sex with my husband: 

-I love him, is the main reason. I want to be close to him, and there's absolutely nothing closer than sex. 

-I love, crave and need the physical pleasure that comes with it. It's euphoric each and every time, and I absolutely do get aroused just thinking about it. I think about sex a lot, now that I'm off of the BC pill, and get aroused very easily. I actually get cranky if I don't get a good pounding and some really good foreplay. 

-I love giving _him_ pleasure. There have been time when I haven't been as in the mood as him, though it didn't take long for me to get in the mood once we started. But regardless, I love seeing and hearing his physical pleasure. He's always beaming afterward, and then the next day, when he comes home for lunch and after work, his smile when he sees me is even bigger than normal. 

-I never feel sexier than before, during and after sex. It's kind of an ego boost, in a way. To know that I can make him feel great, to see how much I arouse him...love it!

-My husband and I are both far less stressed when we have sex regularly. Financial problems, job problems, relational problems, friend problems, family problems...they all seem much less worrisome after a good pounding. 

-It's great exercise! Depending on the position, the intensity and the duration, you could get a full body workout in each sexual tryst!

There are plenty of reasons women have sex. PLENTY. And they go beyond marriage and kids.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I still don't get that.What is extra credit??
> 
> sl*tty men are given breaks by other men as well as women.We're programmed to look down on a woman who is free with her body but we're programmed to admire a man who is that way.
> 
> It isn't about wanting or not wanting someone who has been sharing it with just about anyone.It's about the fact that people have the notion that just bc a woman shows her sexuality that she's automatically a sl*t.


You know when I see a guy attempting to sleep with whoever he can using whatever methods he can, I do not admire him ... all I see is ... d-bag.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Here's another study:
Women want sex more than men and man's sexcuse is being tired, stressed or too full after dinner | Mail Online

And another:
Top 10 Sex Myths (But 2 Are True!) - Netscape What's New

There are so many studies and statistics online about women wanting sex just as much, if not more, than men. I could post these all day.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

so in essence all the women who don't have sex with their husbands really just want the security of his pay check .


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> so in essence all the women who don't have sex with their husbands really just want the security of his pay check .


That's assuming she doesn't work or isn't raising children (which is still work).
If she lay's about the house while he work's then I would say that could be a possibility.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> so in essence all the women who don't have sex with their husbands really just want the security of his pay check .


Hardly. If there are many reasons as to why women have sex and enjoy it, then there are also many reasons as to why they don't have sex with their husbands. Some, I'm sure, _do_ only want the security of the paycheck, or at least the security of the relationship. But there are other situations and other reasons as well.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

If a wife doesn't want to have sex with her husband, she may be:

*truly LD and has always been that way

*not into him anymore

*having sex elsewhere

There are truly LD women. But there are also truly LD men. SOME women want sex, just not with their husbands. 

Doesn't everyone get that yet?

She might just not want YOU.

Really, this needs to be looked into if your wife isn't having sex with you and sometimes, no amount of MMSL will EVER explain to you what is missing.

I do understand that it is much easier to tell yourself that women just don't like sex than that your wife just isn't into you but might be into someone else.

Created...thank you for digging back up the bonobos post I made. The evolution behind that species WILL and IS currently changing the views we have of what is possible as far as sexual relationships. And yes, I'm fine with the female led orgies to promote connection and peace.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I wanted to find that article specifically because it shows that, biologically, we _aren't_ "predisposed" to not want sex. And that, in fact, the opposite is true.

And as far as LD and HD is concerned, I absolutely think that that depends on the individual. I think, as FW said, that there are truly LD women who aren't malicious in their lack of sexual desire. And I think there are truly LD men, too. I don't think we can define "the average man" as wanting sex more than "the average woman" because there are so many factors that play into sexual desire, especially as that stigma becomes less and less true, and more women embrace their sexuality. 

How do we even define "the average woman" or "the average man"? Differing lifestyles, differing childhoods, differing relationships, whether or not the couple has children, how long they've been married, their health, whether or not they each have jobs or are in school...so many things play into sexual attraction and desire, how do decide what is average and what isn't?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Cee Paul - - somewhere a few pages back you made the comment that a viagra pill for women would go out of business due to lack of customers. 

I can't find the articles about this I've seen right now, but there are all kinds of studies being done on just such a pill and SO MANY WOMEN signed up for the trial versions that they had to pull back the request for volunteers.

Do you want me to find that article for you? Or will you just assume your same old song and dance regardless?

Anyway, you are wrong in your assumption, and once this pill is on the market you will see that so I'm not that worried about making the point. Should be in the next two years.

However...just like viagra, this pill will not be a miracle drug. A woman will still have to WANT to have sex with you in order for it to work. So wives who don't want to have sex with their husbands taking this pill will likely be left with no noticable difference. 

But as to your assumption....the moment this pill is available, millions of women will snap up every availble spec of it. I will gladly bet you any (reasonable) amount of money on this. Yes?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Cee Paul - - somewhere a few pages back you made the comment that a viagra pill for women would go out of business due to lack of customers.
> 
> I can't find the articles about this I've seen right now, but there are all kinds of studies being done on just such a pill and SO MANY WOMEN signed up for the trial versions that they had to pull back the request for volunteers.
> 
> ...


Eeeeh yeah...not so sure this is the right comparison. Women wouldn't really benefit from any kind of pill unless it was one to increase desire or make an O easier to achieve. The purpose of viagra is to make PIV POSSIBLE where it otherwise wouldn't be. Guy doesn't get hard, it doesn't happen. Women on the other hand, dryness could be a problem yes, but no pill is needed...just a tube of KY, or some coconut oil.

Seriously, what would you hope to gain from a pill that is comparable to viagra for men?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeager....Really? Why not do some actual research? You will find out all you need to know.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> samyeager....Really? Why not do some actual research? You will find out all you need to know.


Sheesh...no need to get so defensive...I asked YOU a simple, straight forward question. What would YOU hope to gain from such a pill that is comparable to viagra?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I still don't get that.What is extra credit??
> 
> sl*tty men are given breaks by other men as well as women.We're programmed to look down on a woman who is free with her body but we're programmed to admire a man who is that way.


When you realize it's programming, should you admire it?




ScarletBegonias said:


> It isn't about wanting or not wanting someone who has been sharing it with just about anyone.It's about the fact that people have the notion that just bc a woman shows her sexuality that she's automatically a sl*t.


She can be a sexual person that doesn't sleep with many people, doesn't have multiple partners at the same time, a sex goddess even. What's so hard about that?

It's the same as putting your mouth on a hundred or a thousand people, oh wait, they do...

Being so loose and sloppy with it is no longer attractive to me, man or woman. A man who cheats on his wife or girlfriend is not more of a man to me, that's less of a man.

A man playing games on 20 females at the same time, is not more of a man, that's less of a man.

It's nasty to exchange all those germs and microbes with so many people.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> You know when I see a guy attempting to sleep with whoever he can using whatever methods he can, I do not admire him ... all I see is ... d-bag.


You see a loose and nasty ****? Someone you should question what is the big deal if everyone gets a turn?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

samyeager...My sex life rocks and that is why I have a sex blog. Therefore *I* personally do not need or want such a pill. However, I like experimenting with substances and I would totally take one just to see if I felt any effects. My answers here on this thread have very little to do with my sex life though so I didn't understand your question being directed to me personally.

But here's some links too, just to make it easy on us for discussion:

Lybrido: Viagra pill for women: 'Impressive' trials mean that it could go on sale in three years | Mail Online


If It Doesn’t Make Us Nymphos, Female Viagra Will Save Monogamy - The Cut


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/m...-be-a-pill-for-that.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Europa said:


> lol I'm lucky if my wife and I have sex 3 times a year. And we're only in our late 20's - early 30's


How can you stand to go on? Why not declare an open marriage, allowing certain amount of money for dating?


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

*!*



Faithful Wife said:


> samyeager...My sex life rocks and that is why I have a sex blog. Therefore *I* personally do not need or want such a pill. However, I like experimenting with substances and I would totally take one just to see if I felt any effects. My answers here on this thread have very little to do with my sex life though so I didn't understand your question being directed to me personally.
> 
> But here's some links too, just to make it easy on us for discussion:
> 
> ...


I have followed your blog and love it!

Why asking you about this personally...you were the one who compared a pill for women to Viagra, or at least perpetuated what those and other articles say. The thing is, the pill they are discussing is NOT like Viagra at all. Viagra does not address desire at all. It was never designed to. It was to address a specific dysfunction that makes intercourse impossilble.

While I understand that there are female dysfunctions that make intercourse impossible, they are not nearly as common.

The pill for women is not being designed for that. It is to increase desire and pleasure...neither one of those things happen, nor are expected to happen with Viagra.

Yes, I probably am addressing symantics, but the two pills are very different and address very different things.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> How can you stand to go on? Why not declare an open marriage, allowing certain amount of money for dating?


I would suggest the same to anyone facing such acute shortage of sex in their marriage, but again, how many of us are willing to explore the boundaries of an open marriage? there is always this fear that this lifestyle is opening up a can of worms and there is no turning back...

then again, I do advocate for open marriages if it is being done and understood properly


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Sam - yes, I get it...I understand how viagra works and that a female "viagra" would not really necessarily be about blood flow. It is simply a common term to talk about this new pill as "female viagra". Yes, it is far more complicated and all of that.

The ONLY reason I am bringing up this pill at all is because a few pages back, Cee Paul claimed that if there is a pill to boost female desire, the company who makes it will go bankrupt because women won't buy it.

That is totally false and that is all my point was about. Women will flock for this drug if it works, they are already flocking to become part of the trial.

What women WANT in a pill like this is for it to cause the desire that they used to feel or maybe never felt. In some women, they experience this desire as a feeling in their clit. Others experience it as a feeling in their chest/head (ie: an emotion). What this drug does, I have no idea...but I would still try it just for a fun time.


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

hahaha 
and I can bet u guys/hubbies would be lining up to get this pink viara for their wife/partners too


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Sildenafil (Viagra), Tadalafil (Cialis) and Vardenafil (Levitra) have *zero *to do with male libido. These drugs are phosphodiesterase suppressants specific to the genitalia.

They are not comparable to palliative remedies for hypoactive sexual desire, like Lybrido. And I'm not sure if a groundswell of consumer demand wouldn't actually undermine the position some of the ladies on this thread have argued for.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

It wouldn't undermine the point at all. That there are LD women who want to be HD actually supports thr idea that most women want sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> It wouldn't undermine the point at all. That there are LD women who want to be HD actually supports thr idea that most women want sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


for sure! I can also vouch for so many women who wants to be HD so that they wont be blamed for every problem they are currently facing especially in their marriage!


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> I've given other reasons women have sex on this thread, but let's cover some others:
> 
> 4 - Emotional connection


Mature people know that emotional connections are for kids.



Starstarfish said:


> 5 - Genuine desire for physical pleasure


Sex is just for fun.



Starstarfish said:


> 6 - Feeling an obligation towards the partner


Why feel obligated for something you don't think you should do?



Starstarfish said:


> And given the talk of porn and prostitutes frequently on TAM:
> 
> 7 - For money


If a woman doesn't have sex for money, that makes her a s_l_u_t.



Starstarfish said:


> I mean doesn't the existence of porn make you realize there must be more than three reasons for women to have sex? Or are porn actresses trying to get pregnant, get married, or are they peer pressured into it? Because if its none of those, then there must be -at minimum- a phantom fourth reason for women to have sex ... right?


Women have sex for social validation, we all know that on TAM. Other than that, there is no true driver except in a truly sexual female ( doesn't mean she's boinking everyone )



Starstarfish said:


> My husband recently had a bout of a medical problem that was causing things to be off "down there" (turned out to be a raging bladder infection, likely because he seriously never drinks like any water). Had to have an outpatient surgery thing. When I sat around in the waiting room, waiting to hear the diagnosis I didn't think "Oh thank God, now he won't bother me for sex anymore" - I cried. I cried about the idea if something was long-term wrong, and how I'd handle that. And though I'm not really in a spiritual place right now, I thanked God when it all worked out.


Do you really want your husband to never want sex from you again?



Starstarfish said:


> So yes, when people throw out all these ideas about how women are this, and women are there - its maddening. Women are not caricatures. If you approach any group of people with per-conceived notions about how they -all- are like this, or like that - I think you'll end up getting a self-fulfilling prophecy. You'll end up focusing in on and seeing the behaviors you expect to see above and beyond any examples that contradict your expectations. Which you'll simply dismiss as "not the norm."


There are different groups and "herds", there are also people who think for themself... Do not like to think as part of a group, have their own thoughts based on things that are important to them.

Half of this post was in a half serious matter, in the light of TAM.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> No you haven't. I went through the whole thread. You haven't posted a single link, or a single article at all.


See now you are straight up lying for the sole purpose of trying to sabotage my posts and discount my opinions, which has been quite obvious from page one of this thread. Because if you _really_ did go back and look you would see that I posted a quote from that very famous book that you hate and flat out dismissed it("Men are from Mars.....), so you just lost any shred of credibility in my eyes because your obvious intent is to prove me wrong no matter what I come up with(fact or opinion).


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cee Paul said:


> See now you are straight up lying for the sole purpose of trying to sabotage my posts and discount my opinions, which has been quite obvious from page one of this thread. Because if you _really_ did go back and look you would see that I posted a quote from that very famous book that you hate and flat out dismissed it("Men are from Mars.....), so you just lost any shred of credibility in my eyes because your obvious intent is to prove me wrong no matter what I come up with(fact or opinion).


Since you know this prove the opposite of what you feel and let them oppose it to prove what ypu know to be true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I am really confused, are you trying to convince women they it's not the norm for them to be HD?


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

treyvion said:


> Since you know this prove the opposite of what you feel and let them oppose it to prove what ypu know to be true.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Huuuuh? :scratchhead:


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

I think the contention is that if you don't pull over and masturbate at a rest stop, you don't really like sex. Or that women just don't like sex. That a woman who says she does is either lying or...lying.


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## Cee Paul (Apr 11, 2012)

AnnieAsh said:


> I think the contention is that if you don't pull over and masturbate at a rest stop, you don't really like sex. Or that women just don't like sex. That a woman who says she does is either lying or...lying.


Nope, just proves that we love orgasims so much that we're willing to do whatever it takes wherever that may be.


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## AnnieAsh (Aug 22, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> Nope, just proves that we love orgasims so much that we're willing to do whatever it takes wherever that may be.


How very strange. I've known plenty of men who could wait 15 to 20 min to have their orgasms. Catching a public indecency charge wasn't really their cup of tea. 

Different strokes for different folks!


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## malmale (Oct 5, 2010)

Cee Paul said:


> Nope, just proves that we love orgasims so much that we're willing to do whatever it takes wherever that may be.


true to a certain extend, but for sure am not gonna pull over to masturbate myself it I saw a pretty lady, I mean, we do have a little self-control, rite?:scratchhead:


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Sam - yes, I get it...I understand how viagra works and that a female "viagra" would not really necessarily be about blood flow. It is simply a common term to talk about this new pill as "female viagra". Yes, it is far more complicated and all of that.
> 
> The ONLY reason I am bringing up this pill at all is because a few pages back, Cee Paul claimed that if there is a pill to boost female desire, the company who makes it will go bankrupt because women won't buy it.
> 
> ...


You should't need pills for anything other than infections.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Plus,* no one has been saying that a woman's sexual drive is the same as a man's,* like CP keeps trying to disprove. So, because women don't watch as much porn, or because they don't pay for prostitutes, or because they don't buy playgirl, it MUST mean that women don't want sex as much as men.  No, it just means that our sexuality if DIFFERENT! We're NOT always going to want the exact same things,* but we CAN desire actual sex as much as a man*. THAT has been the point, but he keeps arguing stuff that no one has said.


Huh?.... Seems like playing loose with the words there.

Your basically saying a woman's drive is the same because it CAN be.

Let boil this down to the TRUTH...... it isn't.

IF is WAS we would not be having an epidemic of sexless marriage or divorce.

IF sex drives were close there would be little divorce or little in the way of sexless marriage. We'd all be getting it on every day basically.

Average woman's lower drive for sex (especially after kids) is a major factor in everything and a primary cause of stress and ultimately divorce in a marriage. 

What you are saying in essence... under perfect conditions THEN an average woman can want sex as much as an average man is basically the equivalent of saying that there will be world peace one day. Sure there CAN be world peace but no one is gullible enough to believe that.

Lets just totally agree together average men like sex and desire sex more than the average woman.

That way we can avoid the noise AND START WORKING ON SOLUTIONS TOGETHER RATHER THAN ARGUING NONSENSE.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

The only time it ever stops temporarily is with a health issue that would prevent it like a major/minor surgery or a bladder/kidney infection. Otherwise, it has never stopped or slowed down.

Every marriage is unique, what works for one couple might not work for the next. If there's ever an issue, it's best to compromise.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Cee Paul said:


> Huuuuh? :scratchhead:


If someone is always making a counter point to you, no matter if you are right or wrong.... Say the wrong thing so they counter point it to the right point that you truly intend. They will prove you right and do all the work for you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Cee Paul said:


> *See now you are straight up lying* for the sole purpose of trying to sabotage my posts and discount my opinions, which has been quite obvious from page one of this thread. Because if you _really_ did go back and look you would see that I posted a quote from that very famous book that you hate and flat out dismissed it("Men are from Mars.....), so you just lost any shred of credibility in my eyes because your obvious intent is to prove me wrong no matter what I come up with(fact or opinion).


No, she's not lying. You put up a little quote from the book. I couldn't tell you if the quote was true or not because I've never read the thing. If you had posted a LINK to it, then you could say you have posted LINKS, as C2W stated. But you didn't post a LINK. Posting quotes, without showing where you found the source (even saying "It's on page 347" or something like that would be more than what you actually posted), is not the same as posting a link to an article, or a link to the book online. Not everyone has that book. Not anyone has the desire to read a book that, apparently, continues to feed the bs that we women don't like things that we actually do. I am not going to go out and buy some stupid book just to see if you quoted it correctly. So... where is the LINK to the book? Where is the LINK to the page where YOU found it?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

treyvion said:


> If someone is always making a counter point to you, no matter if you are right or wrong.... Say the wrong thing so they counter point it to the right point that you truly intend. They will prove you right and do all the work for you.


Or that can backfire and they could say "FINALLY! You see the light!" :rofl:


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> It wouldn't undermine the point at all. That there are LD women who want to be HD actually supports thr idea that most women want sex.



If I'm understanding you here, I think you are talking about the distinction between wanting sex versus wanting to want sex. 

It's sad when an LD partner truly wishes things were different and LD people on TAM have said as much. 

It would logically follow that the greater the demand for a medication to help with this, the more widespread the problem.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Ladies,just face it,men are mindless f**k dolls who walk around with raging boners at all times.It's their biology.They are high drive and will f**k anywhere at anytime.

We are not this way bc we are choosy due to biology telling us to wait for that perfect specimen of a man to come along.I guess most of us are LD/ND bc pickins are slim out there.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Ladies,just face it,men are mindless f**k dolls who walk around with raging boners at all times.It's their biology.They are high drive and will f**k anywhere at anytime.
> 
> We are not this way bc we are choosy due to biology telling us to wait for that perfect specimen of a man to come along.I guess most of us are LD/ND bc pickins are slim out there.


Well now we are being honest BRAVO! Men are not mindless we can think just fine after getting laid.

If average wives would learn to not say NO this world world be a MUCH better place!


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Well now we are being honest BRAVO!


yup.you win. End of thread.no reason to continue beating a dead horse. 
So men,if you want your LD to be a HD,stop being less than ideal,stop being utter trash in bed,and maybe consider lowering your mate standards so you'll actually measure up enough to get laid.

again:


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Or that can backfire and they could say "FINALLY! You see the light!" :rofl:


RIGHT, and you would know you are as WRONG as sin? Scratching your head... ( how the h3ll could they believe this crap )


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Lets just totally agree together average men like sex and desire sex more than the average woman.
> 
> That way we can avoid the noise AND START WORKING ON SOLUTIONS TOGETHER RATHER THAN ARGUING NONSENSE.


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh... you were serious about that? :scratchhead:

Sorry, that's not going to happen. I think a better solution would be to give up the preconceived notions that the average women doesn't like sex as much as men. T2, have you ever been to a sex toy party? How about a lingerie party? No? Huh. Average women go to those. Average women talk about sex and how much they like it. Average women like sex.... sadly, SOME of those average women just don't like sex with their own husbands. Why? No idea. But if some of the sentiments posted on this board are an indication.... I can see why they choose not to have sex, even if it punishes them (meaning it makes them look frigid, unfeeling, uncaring, and even LD). Some of them get these toys to take that edge off, so they don't have to put out... FOR THEIR HUSBANDS. Like I said before: unfortunately, looking at CWI, you can see quite plainly that women like sex... just not with their husbands.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> yup.you win. End of thread.no reason to continue beating a dead horse.
> So men,if you want your LD to be a HD,stop being less than ideal,stop being utter trash in bed,and maybe consider lowering your mate standards so you'll actually measure up enough to get laid.
> 
> again:


If we win why the rolleyes?.... this is typical female behavior.

Just say we won and that you learned the way the world works.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

it's called sarcasm bc this thread is ridiculous and going in circles.It's pointless.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
> 
> Oh... you were serious about that? :scratchhead:
> 
> Sorry, that's not going to happen. I think a better solution would be to give up the preconceived notions that the average women doesn't like sex as much as men. T2, have you ever been to a sex toy party? How about a lingerie party? No? Huh. Average women go to those. Average women talk about sex and how much they like it. Average women like sex.... sadly, SOME of those average women just don't like sex with their own husbands. Why? No idea. But if some of the sentiments posted on this board are an indication.... I can see why they choose not to have sex, even if it punishes them (meaning it makes them look frigid, unfeeling, uncaring, and even LD). Some of them get these toys to take that edge off, so they don't have to put out... FOR THEIR HUSBANDS. Like I said before: unfortunately, looking at CWI, you can see quite plainly that women like sex... just not with their husbands.


.. so women are not upholding their marital vows then are they?

So again which gender on average is more at fault for why sex stops in a marriage?


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> it's called sarcasm bc this thread is ridiculous and going in circles.It's pointless.


This threads going around in circles because some posters are living in an alternate reality from the way the world works.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

TryingtoFigureItOut=NeverGoing2FigureItOut.

38 pages of utter crap and pure stubborn bullsh*t.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

treyvion said:


> RIGHT, and you would know you are as WRONG as sin? Scratching your head... ( how the h3ll could they believe this crap )


:scratchhead: How could a man believe that a woman likes sex? Really? Is that what you're asking? How could I, a woman, believe a man when he says that women like sex? LMAO!!


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> TryingtoFigureItOut=NeverGoing2FigureItOut.
> 
> 38 pages of utter crap and pure stubborn bullsh*t.


Is it stubborn to be absolutely correct? Or just the way it is?


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## FrenchFry (Oct 10, 2011)

Sorry your thread got gunked up OP. Closing.


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