# I feel like she is gone



## grrrrr (Sep 16, 2009)

About 1 time a year my wife and I sit down to have a big talk. Because we have stopped communicating and there is no intimacy what so ever. I need affection from her! Well recently it has been more often (every couple of months). 
We have 2 small children and we both work (her more from home, but goes in to work on my 2 days off. 

I had learned a lot 3 weeks ago in our converstation and thought we had turned the corner. Even in the intimacy departement. But, as ususal that only lasted a week or so (normal for us I guess). So, after 2 more weeks of feeling she was withdrawing from me again I asked if she was still in love with me? Her reply "don't know, hadn't really thought about it I guess." I still have yet to recieve and answer.

My wife gets so frustrated with me becuase I talk about how I need to be touched, hugged, kissed, etc... Her answer is always that I am trying, sorry it isn't good enough. I am just not like that. I don't remember that before our children (4yrs, and 2 yrs). I am very open with my feelings and needs, which my wife just thinks I am telling her everything that she is doing wrong. I tried to explain what my needs are not what you are doing wrong. If she doesn't know them how am I ever going to get them met.

I am a husband that pulls out all tricks too. I clean the entire house, garbage, dishes, laundry, takes care of the children as soon as I get home after working for 10 hours +. I sleep about 4 hours a day just so I can spend time with her each day. 

I asked what she wanted to do after the kids went to bed the other night, and she said I don't know? Why? I feel like this is a new chore. After talking for a minute I was realized constantly wanting hugs, and to be intimate, and finding a fun activity instead of watching tv all night. I am a chore.

I see all the love that she gives the kids and time she spends emailing away with her parents who live with 2 miles of us. At least 2 times a month on the spur of the moment she wants to go over to her parents house and have a girls night (when her dad is out of town), and I am stuck at home alone (after kids are in bed of course). She will come home at almost midnight every time. 

My wife also freaks out when I have come home before I am supposed to as well. I get yelled at for not calling and just showing up. I thought it would be a nice surprise right? NOPE. Of course the reason is the house is not perfect (so what!!). I feel like I am invading her home and I don't belong. I even brought home roses the other day, it was "thankssss". No real excitement at all, and a follow up question how much did they cost? WTF?

Another quick example: I wanted to spend time in the yard, her answer "we could ask my folks to watch them for a couple of hours?" WHAT? You want the kids to be babysat (which we never do) by your parents so we can do yard work? Why not a date? Since we had only done that twice in 2 years (our anniversary) for 2 hours each time. My wife isn't even trying to find time for us to spend together. 

Everything I have tried and am trying back fires. I have smothered her (this is to much), I have backed off (now I get nothing), and I am at a loss.

I honestly thinks she rather masterbate then be with intimate with me (which I just recently found out). 

Deep down I wonder if there is another person.

Can someone please help me, I know that there are more then just me out there in the same situation. 

I hope that yours turned out positive. I can not imagine this pain and lonelyness on anyone else.

Thank you for taking the time to read me story, and helping me get my wife back. 
My questions are: 
1 - How do I truely know that she wants to still be with me?
2 - How can I get her to share her love with me?
3 - How do I get her to touch and kiss me more? (Without having to ask - she forgets she says)?
4 - How do i get the 1 person in this world that I want to love me, love me again?

I am down to 3 hours sleep if that, I haven't eatin a meal is days now, and I am stressed to the gills.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Let's see -- is your wife tired, perhaps? Drained? Does she find that you telling her what you want and how you like it each time is getting annoying? Do you insist on telling her anyhow?

Does she know that you don't care if the house isn't in good shape?

Does she get irritated that you consider watching your children while she has some time for herself being "stuck" with the children?

Have you ever just gone ahead and set up a sitter and taken her out? 

Have you planned an adults-only vacation? That's where I'd start. I don't have the answer to your 4 questions. But I would start by taking the bull by the horns and arranging a vacation somewhere nice, just for the two of you. My guess is that you BOTH need a vacation.


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## grrrrr (Sep 16, 2009)

My wife doesn't seemed drained to me. Most times she stays up past me (by at least 1 hour) and doesn't get up at least 2 to 3 hours after me. So, I think that she gets plenty of rest.

I do know that she gives the children all of her love, and all that they deserve. She is constantly asking for hugs and kisses from them, but never wants them from me. 

My son has had a few medical emergencies and she has not always been happy with the way I handled them. I thought that we had worked through that and I have been working my ass off to prove that I can pull my weight there.

Maybe I am not the person she wanted to really marry. Maybe like another gentlemen on here she went with the flow, was comfortable and well cared for. 

I get told Thank you for giving her a break as soon as I get home. I then do everything there is to do. Even take care of the kids (as long as they don't just want Mom).

My wife has never allowed a sitter, and hardly asked her parents so that we can have a night alone. God forbid I try to set something like that up. I would get my ass kicked for trying to set up an adult retreat.

I would love to go a retreat with the wife, but she would think about the kids the whole time. It seems I am left out of the picture. 

There must be something else that I have done to turn her so against me, I just don't know what it is. 

I feel like I am the only giving, and she humors me just to leave me alone some days. 

I was told yesterday that I asked for sex to much. She didn't want to look at a clock, okay it has been 36 hours now here he comes. 

If I ask if she wants to even cuddle. I am okay. I just got comfortable. Thanks though. I get Thanks all the time, but never a Thank you. Thanks seem so fake.

I appreciate you reading my post and trying to help. I am afraid to be to bold at this stage in the game and ruin whatever her plans are for my vacation days. 

Thank you so much dobo for your time and energy. I know that it takes quite a bit of energy to read these and not feel for everyone out there. I am just glad I found a 2nd starting point to save my marriage.


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## foolz1 (Sep 5, 2009)

Have you ever considered that your wife feels overwhelmed and maybe a bit resentful. That may or may not be the reason/s for her behavior, but could very well be. When a person feels those things, they may not communicate them with you, but the stress of two children can be daunting, and may well be the reason she is not more affectionate, etc. That is, of course, just my opinion.

As Dobo asked...have you given her a break by planning alone time? If not, it might be a good idea to do so.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I suspect your wife has an undiagnosed anxiety disorder because of what you say about her inability to be apart from the kids. It may have started as post-partum depression--anxiety is a symptom of depression sometimes--or it could always have been there but she managed better until the kids came along. You could encourage her to talk with her doctor if she's willing to consider the idea. Having kids is an amazing thing but can also be a huge, frightening experience when one realizes that their lives are in our hands--we love them sooooo much and the fear of losing them can, if unchecked, become debilitating. i went through this, so that's why I "see" it in what you say.

All of us worry about our kids, but when that worry eliminates one's joy in other things in life, it's a problem. We can learn to redirect our thoughts and use strategies to help manage the anxiety. Sometimes meds are needed (be forewarned: the meds can interfere with libido, but better to deal with it and tx the anxiety, and see if her libido returns after sometime on the meds; mine did. She can try other types of meds, too, if the libido issue becomes a problem in itself). 

Approach the subject gently; let her know you are on her side and you want to work as a team to improve your relationship and help her feel less anxious (if she admits to maybe having a problem with it). If she has a doctor she really trusts, that doc could be the person to go to. Just ask her to be honest and to disclose fully the issues in the marriage, how and when she feels anxious, whatever. There are some excellent books on cognitive-behavioral therapy which address anxiety, too. Just reading them may help her see herself better and recognize if this is the problem or part of it. Good luck; let us know how it goes.


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## needsablessing (Sep 19, 2009)

i'm sorry-it is horrible when you're trying to do everything, and your spouse pushes you away. What a lonely feeling. I think you need to start not being as eager beaver aobut things-she is obviously playing a game with this. My reaction from reading your post is that she seems really mad at you, deep resentment...it could even be something that she associates with you (men)-ex: you're going to let her down, you only want her for sex...I don't know, but there is something going on with her towards you, and as long as you are a puppy dog she will have that "control" over you, and not have to look at what is eating her up inside. I just know that I would do ANYTHING and be so happy to have a husband that helped me and tried so hard to win my affection...UNLESS...of course, I was so mad at him I couldn't forgive him...for instance, there was a time he continually looked at porn and LIED about it and spent HOURS looking at it instead of our business AND choose the girls in the pics over me...I got really disgusted with him...the nice stuff he did just couldn't compute cause I was feeling so much anger at him. So, you do need to straight out ask her what did you do? Do her parents like you? You mention how much time shes emailing them...I just ask cause another HUGE rift for a while was my hubbys mom being very jealous of my marriage to her son, and she did all she could to pit him against me...and he did take her side for a LONG time, and it was hell and so sad for me. She somehow was making me the enemy...and finally with counseling he told her he'd always choose me over her, and she stormed off and stopped talking to us for months, and it is the same drama every few months. anyway, maybe they're brainwashing her quite a bit! IDK, I know alot of couples with kids, and she should be lavishing appreciation on you for the help you give. Just as you lavish appreciation on her for the stuff/help she does. 
i agree that maybe she has some type of anxiety disorder or something-you mention a child with some health emergencies...maybe she is still mad at you for not handling something like she thought...she needs to be honest with you about her feelings, what she is letting destroy her marriage.... I recomend the book Boundries in Marriage by Henry Cloud/John Townsend...right now she is walking over you, taking and not giving back, and as long as you let her, it will never get better...she'll never respect you. Love Must Be Tough by Dr. James Dobson is another wonderful resource. Be tough!


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## mrnice (Aug 11, 2009)

Geeeeez man, i can't even think of where to start here. Only thing I can say is 
Tell your wife you're unhappy with how she has been treating. Besides the fact that you need constant attention from her I think you're pretty damn normal.
Marriage counselling.


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## grrrrr (Sep 16, 2009)

So.... I have been taking in everyone's thoughts and advice (which I so greatly appreciate you have no idea), and reading a ton of other people's boards to gain addtional perspective. I came up with the conclusion that I was going quit feeling any kind of sorry for my A**, and get a different approach in order to have a resolution.

I decide to send an email. Since my wife is constantly checking her email, I thought that she would see that and I would finally catch her full attention. Well let me tell you it worked!!! 

I started the email off by mentioning how I had been taking a deeper look at who I was, who I wanted to become in long run, and how I wanted my life to be like. So, the beginnig really caught her attention and thought I was heading to talk about divorce. I would like to say this is something I would never want in a million years. I watched my parents go through that from the time I was 3 until I was in my mid 20's! That messed me up a bit. I was caught in the middle along with my sister. I actually vowed never to get married unless I thought it was the right person. Plus, I could never do something to my kids that my parents did to me!!

Moving on from the past... I started to discuss how I must have lost her trust and/or love at some point and time. I mentioned how I reacted my son's medical emergencies (quite severe to the point where he was hospitalized over night). My son had spinal taps, x-rays, blood drawn, catscans, and etc.. My son has literally had every experiment and test run on him that an astronaut has. Not really fun to say the least. 

Then I discussed how she was the one I wanted to be with from the time I met her as a Freshmen in High School. She moved shortly after we met and I wrote her constantly. 

I also discussed all of things that I do, and recognized all of her contributions to the household. I also mentioned my appreciation for dedication to the family and that I was still in love with her.

When I got home there were many questions to say the least. She had it all printed out ready to go. If I did not mention this before she is stay at home mom that is able to work from home as well. 

She was relieved to say the least that I did not want a divorce because that was the first question out of her mouth! 

After completing the questionare from my email, I was able to ask questions. 

She told me that she still was pissed about how I handled my son's medical issues (which I thought was buried the hatch it on months ago), I made some decisions or said somethings that shocked my wife (could not recall them off the top of her head, but one), and so she has been holding on to things from almost a year ago to 4 years ago. Apprently when we were fighting once and she was out of town and finally got home I made some rude remarks about some opportunities I passed up (which I don't remember to say the least, and I would never cheat on my wife ever!!!). I apologized greatly for that, and mentioned that I did not recall that remark. I have had family that has done that, and I can't look at them the same way!

So, I learned that I did something really crappy 4 years ago, and she had never ever mentioned it to me before. There has been somethings held on to for a long time. I let things go. I was totally blind sided by a situation that I was stuck in with my kids that my wife did not warn me about and I could do nothing but suck it up! I was over it 10 minutes because I knew it wasn't intentional. She even mentioned how sorry she was 50 times, and that she would still be pissed if I had done the same thing.

So, we have learned a few things.. I don't hold grudges and she does.

We also got back to talking about intimacy. Apprently I just listed a 25 things I wanted and needed from her that I wasn't getting and that I deserved 3 weeks ago and that was overwhelming for her to be dumped on. (I was much calmer at this talk session too. Probably because I got a lot of things figured out with everyone's help! I had more self confidence and I had a game plan that was fail proof.) 

I explained that intimacy went beyond the bedroom. Touching one's back, a slight rub on the back of the arm (hey I am thinking about ya), a kiss, hugs, smiles, etc... I also explained that she doesn't have to look at the clock and say sh*t it has been 36 hours I better be prepared, but it sure would be nice to have sex more than once a week or every two weeks. Two to three times a week is more of what I want. She explained that she just has never been as much into physical things as I have been. I personally could go every night! I am fortunate I married someone I very attracted to, but does not share the same libido (small problem eh?). 

Everything is not perfect but we are talking more real to one another. We did not have any make up sex, but there was more intimacy on her part (geniune too). We have been successful like this before, but it only seems to last a couple to three weeks. 

I am not sure how long it is going to take her to get over or forgive me for losing her trust or being pissed off at me, but I feel like it has to give soon (especially since she has told me for the 3rd time). I can only apologize for things so many times. 

I finally mentioned at the end that I did not hardly ever feel appreciated for how I bust my a** around the house, take care of the kids after a long 10 hour day (my day starts at 4:30 - wake up that is) and I get home at 4:30ish. I clean up the house etc... and take care the kids well past 10:30 most nights (kids are done by 8:30). So, I put in a full day, and not to been shown any appreciation was BS! 

So, for now things are heading in the right direction. We are only at the 30 hour mark. Asking how I have so much time to type this? She is taking a small break from the kids and is over at her mom's chillin for a bit. I would like to mention I do not have a night to go and have a drink at a buddies house because I am taking care things here and giving her a break after being stuck at home all day. 

At least now I know I have a hobby besides cleaning. I have a forum to listen to others, and hopefully give some advice that helps as all of you have.

Sorry for being so long winded, but somethings can not be summed up!

Take care everyone and the best of luck! Love is a job sometimes!


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Coupla things -- in an earlier post you mentioned "the wife." I really hate that way some men refer to their wives. She has a name. She's not an object. "The couch", "the car", "the toaster", sure. But not "the wife."

OK. Got that out of my system!

I watched something yesterday on TV that perhaps applies here -- men don't always think of things in the larger context. So for instnace, if you said something snide about passing up other opportunities, to her she saw a LOT in that comment that you might never have considered. They related to everything about your relationship, not just you expressing annoyance with whatever it was you were expressing annoyance at. It cut at the heart of her trust and belief in you. Careless remarks can cut very deeply.

So how long will it take for her to get over some of these things from years ago? Depends on how you handle knowing about them now. Depends on how you respond to her needs and show her that you understand them and that when situations arise, you do better. But if you don't give her time and you think that just because it was 4 years ago it should be done, she's just letting you know about some of them so you're at time zero.

Also, if you don't have a single night to have a drink with a buddy, that's because you haven't asked for it. Don't blame her for that.

And this idea that if you were to set up a sitter would get you into trouble is you not taking responsibility. You're blaming her for your inaction. That's not fair. 

In terms of sex, discuss compromise. She'd like once/week, you'd like 2-3 times per week. Twice seems like a good compromise. 

Glad you've opened up the dialog. But there's a lot of work to do yet.


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## grrrrr (Sep 16, 2009)

Thank you so much for your reply once again!!

You are correct once again on so many things. I use the term my wife because I am trying to be careful and not use names. I have almost done that 2 or 3 times before posting. I will work on that! 

I want to slowly work on everything, and I want her to give the same effort back. As long as she does I think that we could return to where we once were.

I know that there are times that I am starting at zero again, however I never know when I am getting past zero. I just learned about my J/A (Jack A**) move last night that I pulled 4 years ago. I completely understand her point of view on that! I know I would be pissed beyond belief if that comment had been pointed at me.

I still can not believe that I made a comment like that. I never see myself as that kind of person.

I think twice a week in the bedroom is a great compromise and what I have been hoping for a long time.

I do need to take somethings in my own hands as far as setting up a babysitter. I agree. I need to get my signifcant other to relax a little bit on that. She doesn't trust many people with kids. She even watches my parents quite closely (another story for another time). So, I will just have to ensure that I am very deligent about my choices in this matter.

I know that this is only the beginning!!! I know that we have a long road back to us being us. I know that we have a ton of trust to build back (especially me). I can only ask that we both give 100% each day, commuication is always open, and we love one another.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

Please tell your wife from me that I did the same kind of overprotectiveness with my first daughter and it harmed my marriage and probably didn't make the child that much safer than she would have been with any of our good friends or family. But it did harm the marriage. 

If you've read some of my posts one of the warnings I send out to others is to avoid falling into that trap where the child gets everything and the relationship between the spouses gets nothing. The divorce more than likely will occur well before the child for whom so much has been sacrificed gets through school for one thing. So the idea that most parents try to stay together for the children shouldn't be something to take great comfort in. 

And fathers, beware -- if things are like this with one child, the second will nail the coffin on the marriage. You'll feel more trapped and have even less of your wife. So don't be fooled into having a second if things aren't working out with the one. It will not bring you closer or help heal old wounds. Nope. Not a chance in hades.

Of course my first marriage didn't fail solely on the above, but I can tell you that perhaps it would have weathered other things better had the above not been the case. And in marriage, you have to give everything the best chance because there is a lot out there that works against it. 

As a man, I have a feeling that if you said the above to your wife it may be seen as you not caring about the child given the current situation. If she heard it from a mom who has been there, it may be received differently. So if I were you and you wanted to relay my great "wisdom", I'd couch it more in terms of her doing things that renew herself and that the two of you building a strong marriage allows the both of you to be better parents, renewed and happy, demonstrating the possibilities of a good marriage to the child. That means taking time for the relationship apart from just being parents...

Something like that. 

Good luck!!


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

For me, the biggest libido killer is feeling that my husband has one foot out the door (I don't, but have been in that position). That comment may have put the idea in her mind that you are not fully committed to her. It is difficult to fully commit your body to a man that you feel is only there 'for now'. It can make a woman feel as though he wants sex from me because I'm the only one he can have it with right now, but not because I am the only one he wants it with.

I'm glad you had a good talk with her. Have you read the book 'The 5 love languages' ? It sounds like you touch on most of the areas that make people feel loved, but it may help you both to read it and talk about it...for her, she may better realize that your physical needs are more about feeling her love than needing sex. It may help her to understand where you're coming from.


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## grrrrr (Sep 16, 2009)

*Update*

Well it has been pretty close to a month now and I have been trying to focus solely on our marriage and the kids. I have been doing enough around the house (more things that matter), and helping even more with the kids. Before I would let my wife pick out the kids clothes for school, figure out what to eat for dinner and cook it, and anything else special that needed to take place. 

Now, I pick out what we are going to eat on my days off, and sometimes work days, I still clean up the kitchen no matter what(that has never changed), and I take care of more of the clothes in the AM. I guess I am trying to show I can rely less on my wife in regards to everyday things around the house, especially on her work days.

Things have been going better. We are still having our ups and downs. We were discussing the other day how we feel like we are getting back to where we need to be. Just when that was said....

Things have gone quite again. The hugs have slowed down and there is frustration on her part.  I have made a few small mistakes along the way, but there are other stress factors that I can not control. It is frustrating knowing that things are going so well, but they can be interrupted so quickly. 

I still feel that there are days when I can do nothing right, and others I can do nothing wrong. I so wish I could understand women. I have gotten credit for trying harder (even when it does not turn out quite as I hoped) on dinner and other family activities.

I wish that there was a perfect solution to a perfect marriage all of the time. Then again life would be to easy. I am still invested 100%. 

One of the largest obstacles I still have yet to figure out is how to get my wife to open up more to me. She still holds certain things close to her chest and I have to pry them out. As I stated in earlier post there have been only a couple of times I have shared things with my family I should not have. However, my wife still feels the need to follow up with that is just between us right? 

I just don't know what I need to do to prove that she can share things with me, her health concerns when there are some, her frustrations with me (which still tend to take more then a week to finally surface), and her love more consistently.

I am someone that can understand a mistake and forgive things when it comes to the ones that I love, but my wife holds on way to long. I know that is her personality, but it is so difficult to get her to admit she is pissed about something. I am not stupid!! Hello I know something is on your mind.

It is so nice to continue to read other threads and to continue to seek advice here.

I do not think my wife is half way out the door as the last person kind of thought, but how do I know? 

I know that marriage is about trust, however sometimes I wonder if there is or was another. It is probably just my parnoia acting up again, but my mind goes there. It would be a little challenging at times, but there is always time to be found.

I have wondered the last paragraph since I started posting here, but have wanted to focus on the positives on my marriage instead of what could be, or the big what if....

I know that deep down if there was someone else I would not know what to do. It has to be the biggest fear of any relationship. I feel so deeply for those who have experienced that kind of heart ache.

I have sent off a second email to my wife tonight in regards on her recent physical and verbal communication changes. I know that there is something on her mind that she is not sharing becuase her heartburn has started acting back up again. Anytime something stressful with the kids or a long day she take a OTC medicine. She says she is not stressed, but that is when the heart burn tends to kick in. 

I need to find a way for my wife to open up to me all of the time. There has to be a huge trust issue that she has with. I feel that she keeps everything close to her chest because it is safer that way. Her family is very small and tight nit, but there always seems to be some small secret. There generally is one in every family, I know there are plenty in mine. 

Once again thank you to everyone on this site. I need to get back to reading more and continue to focus on my marriage. I am hoping that I can help others as much as I have been helped.


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## grrrrr (Sep 16, 2009)

*update II*

So after making my most recent post I have actually thought of a decent idea for my wife's b-day. Normally she just purchases what ever she wants on line, boxes it up and says see what you got me. 

Well I should admit I did allow that again, but I think I have come up with something else original on my own. I am going to try and set a horse back ride for her. My only question is do I ask my mother-in-law to watch the kids for just over an hour probably 2 so I could take her horse back riding? My original thought was just watching the kids so she could go on a hour long ride by herself for some peace and quite. 

So.... What does everyone think? I really want to show my wife I can be spontaneous and fun! I feel like things are just to serious sometimes especially in the last 10 years and counting.

My wife really enjoyes riding horses, but has not done so since we have been together. I think this is a great opportunity.


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## dobo (Jun 30, 2009)

I would go together...


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: Update*



grrrrr said:


> I do not think my wife is half way out the door as the last person kind of thought, but how do I know?


I wasn't referring to her, but she may have had those thoughts that you had one foot out the door (looking over your shoulder, etc) since she hung onto your comments from 4 years ago:



grrrrr said:


> Apprently when we were fighting once and she was out of town and finally got home I made some rude remarks about some opportunities I passed up (which I don't remember to say the least, and I would never cheat on my wife ever!!!). I apologized greatly for that, and mentioned that I did not recall that remark.


I think going horseback riding with her would be great, if you can work out the sitter. Great idea!


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