# Former friend doesn't believe infidelity took place



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Not sure if this belongs in CWI, so please move it if necessary.

When I was still with my ex wife, we had a mutual (female) friend. We happened to have a single male friend, so we introduced the two of them, and they hit it off, and they started dating.

When my ex wife and I split (she left me for an OM), our friendship with this now-couple dissolved naturally. My ex wife left the country, and my life was upside down.

Now here's the thing - not that long after my ex wife left, some things came out that pointed heavily (and I mean heavily) towards our male friend and my ex wife having had -something- going on with each other in the months preceding the end of our marriage. In hindsight, it was clearly obvious that he at least had a lot of interest in my ex wife. I also found out that he was "in" on my ex wife's infidelity and future plans with her OM.

My ex wife admitted to me later on that he most definitely had interest in her, and that he had gone so far as to tell her he loved her - after we had split up, and after he had started dating our female friend. She denied any reciprocal feelings, though I doubt very much that she didn't do anything with him prior to that. I had no hard proof of anything physical, but a LOT of circumstantial evidence.

At the time, I thought it best to tell our female friend (again, who was now dating this guy). She basically laughed it off, and I never saw her again. She wasn't mad at me that I knew of, and we parted amicably. Just one of those things. Friendships are lost during divorces, it happens.

Fast forward to about 7 years later, and we bump into each other online. Posted in the same Facebook page, so we get to chatting and catching up. She says she had only just broken up with that guy recently, so they had dated about 7 years, and she's not too upset about it.

So I stupidly bring up how I was positive he and my ex wife had a thing with each other while she was married to me (and after) and he was dating her, and she flew off the handle at me, told me I needed help and I should see someone, and that there's no way he did any of that. I was only bringing it up in conversation (bad topic, I know that now... lol) and that I didn't mean anything by it. I'm not living in the past, and basically to relax.

But it SERIOUSLY pissed her off, and she turned it all on me.

This was about a year ago, and it still bothers me. She is/was a lovely woman that I really got along well with, and I didn't mean to upset her that way. I obviously touched a nerve, but she really ripped me a new one, and I don't know why.

There was definitely -something- going on with this guy and my ex wife, at the very least feelings he had for her, but while he was dating this woman - which is not okay. Like I said, I tried to tell her back then, when their relationship was new, but she wasn't hearing any of it. 7 years later, their relationship was over, and she had very few nice things to say about him, and she freaked out over me bringing that topic up. I admit I shouldn't have, but I genuinely didn't mean it in a way that would upset her. Just chit-chat.

My question is, why would she have reacted so harshly?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

> My question is, why would she have reacted so harshly?


*Because she knew it to be true.*

And even if nothing had ever happened (if your ex had, somehow, found the backbone not to cheat on her lover, backbone lacking when she was married to you) the girlfriend would have strongly suspected or known for sure that her boyfriend did not love her, that her boyfriend's first love was your wife. 

She would be thinking: "Gee, Alex! Thank you for reminding me that I was only ever a poor substitute for your wife! That I was only ever Plan B!"

Otherwise she would have been more sympathetic to you, IMO.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> *
> She would be thinking: "Gee, Alex! Thank you for reminding me that I was only ever a poor substitute for your wife! That I was only ever Plan B!"*


*

This.

And add the Alex set her up with him. That makes it even more painful for her to hear this again from him.*


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Her ego won't allow her to think she was cheated on. She's all that, ya know.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

alexm said:


> My question is, why would she have reacted so harshly?


Because it is extremely stupid and irritating that you STILL carry this with you!! 
7 years..... A long ass time.... Let it go.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

alexm said:


> At the time, I thought it best to tell our female friend (again, who was now dating this guy). She basically laughed it off, and I never saw her again. She wasn't mad at me that I knew of, and we parted amicably.
> 
> So I stupidly bring up how I was positive he and my ex wife had a thing with each other while she was married to me (and after) and he was dating her, and she flew off the handle at me, told me I needed help and I should see someone, and that there's no way he did any of that.


Here's the thing my man. She didn't just laugh it off only to never see you again because of the divorce. She just didn't want to entertain your idea that your wife at the time was banging her boyfriend. And yes, it pissed her off then, but she didn't overtly show it. It was just easier to just cashier what you thought was a friendship.
My question is why where you still trying to make a issue out of your ex old lady screwing her boyfriend, your exes new boyfriend and probably their cousins seven years after the fact; especially after this chick had just busted up from the relationship and you, knowing from experience, she's not thrilled at the idea of exploring what him and your ex wife did.
If you wanted to rekindle and escalate what you and this chick had before, you should have let her cry on your shoulder rather than you coming off as still beat down and crippled up because your ex betrayed you. In the future, don't confuse showing you're weak and unable to move on with showing you have a sensitive side.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Here's the thing my man. She didn't just laugh it off only to never see you again because of the divorce. She just didn't want to entertain your idea that your wife at the time was banging her boyfriend. And yes, it pissed her off then, but she didn't overtly show it. It was just easier to just cashier what you thought was a friendship.
> My question is why where you still trying to make a issue out of your ex old lady screwing her boyfriend, your exes new boyfriend and probably their cousins seven years after the fact; especially after this chick had just busted up from the relationship and you, knowing from experience, she not thrilled at the idea of exploring what him and your ex wife did.
> If you wanted to rekindle and escalate what you and this chick had before, you should have let her cry on your shoulder rather than you coming off as still beat down and crippled up because your ex betrayed you. In the future, don't confuse showing you're weak and unable to move on with showing you have a sensitive side.


Why did he bring it up? Because that's what people do.

They remember connections and stuff from the past:

"Say! Whatever happened to that cute puppy you and your husband bought, Christmas 2002?"

"Did you ever get your degree?"

"I used to buy that handmade soap you and your wife made. Gave it to everyone, one Christmas. Great gifts! Do you still do that? I might buy some again, if you do."

And even...

"By the way, didn't my ex and your boyfriend have a fling before we split? I was never sure about them. They got real shady at one time, I seem to recall."


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Me thinks she doth protest too much.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

ne9907 said:


> Because it is extremely stupid and irritating that you STILL carry this with you!!
> 7 years..... A long ass time.... Let it go.


He was triggered.

Everyone on TAM in the CWI section knows about triggers.

A year? five years? Seven years? Twenty years, even?

Triggers happen.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> "By the way, didn't my ex and your boyfriend have a fling before we split? I was never sure about them. They got real shady at one time, I seem to recall."


My advice is still forget about the ex screwing around and say " Look Mon Cheri", I can understand how painful a breakup can be after seven years. I hate to have to run but I have an urgent appointment I have to get to but I would really like to take you to lunch to continue our conversation." (unless of course he wants to spend another seven years stewing in his juices about "how could she do me like that knowing how much I love her". Another chick doesn't give a rats ass about hearing you cry about your ex.)
The new chick wants to hear how glad you are it happened the way it did because it allowed you to meet her. And that's often true.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MattMatt said:


> *Because she knew it to be true.*
> 
> And even if nothing had ever happened (if your ex had, somehow, found the backbone not to cheat on her lover, backbone lacking when she was married to you) the girlfriend would have strongly suspected or known for sure that her boyfriend did not love her, that her boyfriend's first love was your wife.
> 
> ...


That's what I think (and thought), too, but she really, and I mean really, came across as not believing it.

There are two kickers to this story: 1, that this woman is a psychologist, and 2, that she and my ex wife share the same first name. Which is rather irrelevant, I suppose, but I always found it weird that this guy pledged his love for 2 women with the same name, at the same time. And not a terribly common name, either. Makes it easy to cover up, I guess. Can't really call her by her wrong name!


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

alexm said:


> That's what I think (and thought), too, but she really, and I mean really, came across as not believing it.
> 
> There are two kickers to this story: 1, that this woman is a psychologist, and 2, that she and my ex wife share the same first name. Which is rather irrelevant, I suppose, but I always found it weird that this guy pledged his love for 2 women with the same name, at the same time. And not a terribly common name, either. Makes it easy to cover up, I guess. Can't really call her by her wrong name!


I think you know why she flipped out.

I'd rather focus on why you're so bothered by her flipping out.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MattMatt said:


> Why did he bring it up? Because that's what people do.
> 
> They remember connections and stuff from the past:
> 
> ...


Yeah, this. Thanks, @MattMatt

It wasn't really a 'trigger', per se. I didn't chat with her and instantly get transported to a bad time in my life. Quite the opposite, as I knew her before I introduced her to my ex wife, and I quite liked her as a person, (not in any other way. We never spent any social time with each other without my ex wife, and later, this guy).

However, she obviously did trigger, and I felt bad about that. It was FAR fresher in her mind than in mine.

But honestly, it was VERY out of character for her to speak to me like that. As I said - psychologist. VERY analytical, logical, and the ability to reason and see beyond things. And her response(s) were very much defending HIM, not herself.

To whoever said "get over it" - thanks for the advice. I am long, long over that period in my life, and I don't trigger, like many BS's here do (which is okay, btw). Talking about things that happened in the past between friends (in this case, a small circle of friends) is not "triggering", or any sort of indication one is not "over" something. It's merely conversation, and something in common. I do fully admit I didn't think of her feelings when bringing that up, though, and that was stupid and insensitive of me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

marduk said:


> I think you know why she flipped out.
> 
> I'd rather focus on why you're so bothered by her flipping out.


Because I genuinely liked her as a person, thought of her as a good friend, and was sad to lose her in my social circle - especially as a result of other people's actions, which is what often happens in divorces. And I am responsible for doing so this second time, after re-connecting with her after so many years.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

alexm said:


> Because I genuinely liked her as a person, thought of her as a good friend, and was sad to lose her in my social circle - especially as a result of other people's actions, which is what often happens in divorces. And I am responsible for doing so this second time, after re-connecting with her after so many years.


Did you want to have sex with her?

Would a friendship with her bolster your self-esteem somehow? Like, 'ha ha, she's my friend now and we can commiserate about how her ex and my ex were both douches?'

You weren't friends with her for a long time. You're not friends with her now. Nothing's changed.

In fact, her response should have soured you on both the friendship and the sex. It didn't.

Why?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

My answer?

Who cares? Put her behind you. Put your cheating ex wife and her circus train of sideshow freaks behind you. Put it all behind you. 

Move on and quit worrying about what other people think.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Just because she has a degree in psychology doesn't mean she doesn't have a very intense emotional side that can override her logical side -- as you saw when she responded to what you said. Yes, it would have been better if you hadn't brought it up but you did and her reaction was way over the top. The most likely explanation is that she believes it to be true but doesn't want to face it and will never listen to anyone who says it did. Yes, you lost a chance to be friends with her again but she overreacted to the point of ridiculousness so all you can do is shake your head and let it go.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

alexm said:


> My question is, why would she have reacted so harshly?


Look it's not your job to convince her to believe what you believe. 

You already told her the facts, the end. If she's too stupid to listen that's her problem.

You didn't need to rehash it again 7 yrs later, it just makes you look bitter and jaded. Though I'm sure you are not.

She probably reacted harshly because the truth would make her look like a fool. Her head is buried deep in the sand.

Can't save everybody. Just worry about yourself. Say your peace, like you did 7 yrs ago, and let it go.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I agree with Matt, but there is another side I didn't see addressed.


Maybe she flipped out because she had a good thing going, but never could get past what you suspected. Trust issues are relationship killers. So, it may have been pent up rage because she believed you with no proof and killed their relationship.



> Look it's not your job to convince her to believe what you believe.
> 
> You already told her the facts, the end. If she's too stupid to listen that's her problem.
> 
> ...


He never said he wanted to convince her. He asked why she reacted harshly.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

And, incidentally, my wife is trained as a psychologist.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> He never said he wanted to convince her. He asked why she reacted harshly.


He brought it up again because OP said she didn't believe him the first time. He wanted her to believe it. There's no other reason to mention it again. She acted harshly because she already heard the story the first time. It's a painful truth to hear. She had made up in her mind that he never would do something that bad (though there's a 99% chance he probably did and OP is right) because she's a rug sweeper and now he was rehashing it all over again. 

She's mad OP because YOU are making her face reality and she wants to live in fantasy land. She people don't want to be woken up. You relay the facts. It's up to her to believe them.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

It made her look bad. You knew the guy she was dating was a jerk and told her how you knew. She say's screw you I'll take my chances and you turn out to be right, after she wasted 7 years on him. You should never have brought it up though...lesson learned.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

First, WHY bring it up? I know, I know, you triggered. (Seriously NOT said sarcastically.) The thing is, 7 years is so freaking long ago. Triggers can come any time, but not everyone wants to, needs to, or will deal with you bringing it up.

Second, WHY do you care? Perhaps the conversation was NOT as innocuous as you suggest. You raised it there, and now you post it here. Stuff like that pisses people off. Especially people that were connected to the situation.

Thirdly, maybe she went off the handle with you so that you would never bring it up with or around her again. 

Finally, so what. He was a douche, your ex was one, and anyone connected to them got a little soiled. No one wants to go back to the crap of their past.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bigfoot said:


> First, WHY bring it up? I know, I know, you triggered. (Seriously NOT said sarcastically.) The thing is, 7 years is so freaking long ago. Triggers can come any time, but not everyone wants to, needs to, or will deal with you bringing it up.
> 
> Second, WHY do you care? Perhaps the conversation was NOT as innocuous as you suggest. You raised it there, and now you post it here. Stuff like that pisses people off. Especially people that were connected to the situation.
> 
> ...


Seven years. That's a long time. Really? It is? In some contexts, perhaps. But in other contexts?

For example. it's only seven Christmases ago. Just seven birthdays ago.

So, really all *that* long ago?:scratchhead:


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> He brought it up again because OP said she didn't believe him the first time. He wanted her to believe it.


Like I said, he never said he was trying to convince her. He asked why she reacted harshly.


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## LucasJackson (May 26, 2016)

The closer you get to the truth, the more venom a WS spits.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LucasJackson said:


> The closer you get to the truth, the more venom a WS spits.


Umm... she wasn't a WS, she was a loyal spouse who got cheated on?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I don't know....I think folks are over thinking it. I am not trying to knock AlexM because a few of you have been a little hard on him on this thread. My thoughts are she hears from a guy she hasn't talked to in seven years. They have small talk, then all of a sudden he bought up a major issue from the past. Seven years is an eternity!!!

I'm pretty sure she was like WTF, what's the point of bringing that up??? People don't want drama in their lives. If you are friend that brings drama for no reason at all be prepared to be dropped. I honestly think its that simple. I don't think she is all that invested in her relationship with AlexM, its been seven years since they talked!!! So its easy to just walk away from her interaction with him if he offended her, albeit inadvertently. If someone I knew seven years ago and wasn't even all that close with tried to talk to me about something intimate in my life, I'd honestly be a bit creeped out.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

marduk said:


> Did you want to have sex with her?


If I was a betting man and she's semi attractive, damn straight. What red blooded male wouldn't want a little NSA poon tang.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Double like to reformed hubby. 

Also, seven years is a long time ago. 7 Christmases ago, several important people in my life were alive and doing well. A 21 year old who can drink legally, marry, etc., was a 14 year old pimply faced kid wondering when they were gonna reach their "man" height. A 16 year old newly licensed driver was 9 and enjoyed cartoons. Now, we are having birth control talks and looking at similarly aged kids who are pregnant.

7 years is a long time. As far as healing goes, it is a long time unless one has complex grief, in which case, therapy is needed.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bigfoot said:


> First, WHY bring it up? I know, I know, you triggered. (Seriously NOT said sarcastically.) The thing is, 7 years is so freaking long ago. Triggers can come any time, but not everyone wants to, needs to, or will deal with you bringing it up.
> 
> Second, WHY do you care? Perhaps the conversation was NOT as innocuous as you suggest. You raised it there, and now you post it here. Stuff like that pisses people off. Especially people that were connected to the situation.
> 
> ...


I didn't trigger. I really didn't. I guess it was just something that I stupidly brought up in conversation, without thinking how it would affect her. I wasn't even trying to convince her, as others have said. I just said it, totally without thinking. Foot in mouth.

She brought up the fact that this guy and her had broken up a few months prior - I didn't even bring him up in the first place. She opened that door to talk about him, and I walked right in with what she, I assume, thought was an "I told you so" (which it wasn't).

And yes, I feel bad about it. I did like her as a person, and we got along great way back when. Our friendship fizzled in a way that was out of my control, and this time it ended abruptly by my big mouth.

People here can call me over-sensitive, and you wouldn't be wrong, but hey, that's me I guess. I'm not lying awake at night about this, but I strongly dislike that I obviously upset her at a vulnerable time with a touchy subject. Sue me for having a conscience.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ThePheonix said:


> If I was a betting man and she's semi attractive, damn straight. What red blooded male wouldn't want a little NSA poon tang.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> And, incidentally, my wife is trained as a psychologist.


Fat good that did her huh? Was self introspection part of her curriculum while getting her degree, or did she skip that part?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

alexm said:


> And yes, I feel bad about it. I did like her as a person, and we got along great way back when. Our friendship fizzled in a way that was out of my control, and this time it ended abruptly by my big mouth.
> 
> *People here can call me over-sensitive*, and you wouldn't be wrong, but hey, that's me I guess. I'm not lying awake at night about this, but I strongly dislike that I obviously upset her at a vulnerable time with a touchy subject. Sue me for having a conscience.


Yes. You are.

WHO GIVES A FLYING FVCK WHAT THIS CHICK THINKS? :surprise:

Does this woman, who you have had no interactions with for years, have any control over your job, your friendships, your interpersonal relationships with family? Is she your stock broker, your insurance agent, your mail lady? 

No. 

She is nothing to your life. Just an old acquaintance introduced to you by your cheating, lying ass ex-Wwife. 

Why do you lease this person rental property in your head? Dismiss her. Never talk to her again. Her life has no impact on yours. Who she dates has no impact on you. Why she broke up with her ex has nothing to do with you. Leave it all behind. Never talk to her again. Walk away. 

For Christ's sake Alex......


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

bandit.45 said:


> Yes. You are.
> 
> WHO GIVES A FLYING FVCK WHAT THIS CHICK THINKS? :surprise:
> 
> ...


She was my friend, whom I introduced to my ex wife, and then we introduced her to the d-bag later on, whom she ended up dating.

You know, I don't start many threads here any more, particularly for this reason. When I do, I try to find a subject that speaks to topics relevant to TAM members, new and old. I like to start dialogues, and present information that may be helpful or otherwise of interest to people here. Sometimes this starts by me posing a question. In this case, I DID already know the answer, but was hoping to hear other peoples take on it, and maybe start a thread that people can contribute their thoughts and experiences to.

I realize that the majority of threads here are seeking help and advice and some folks DO need a swift kicking in the behind, because the topic is often rather obvious. But others (like Badsanta, for example) like to contribute by hypothetical or real scenarios and open up a dialogue.

So in this thread, I am not actively seeking "help". The scenario I presented was something I feel guilt about (not a tremendous amount, but nonetheless) and I regret it. I regret introducing this person to my ex wife, and especially the d-bag guy. I regret bringing that subject up with her many years later. I have, and had, no sexual or romantic interest in her.

I just thought that this experience was one that may be of interest to others and could open up a thread dealing with the subject of rug sweeping, denial, and the like.

A few people who replied here seem to get it. Others seem to view every thread as a reason to bonk somebody upside the head. I get that it's cathartic, in a way, to do so, given one's prior (often bad) experiences in marriage and relationships - therefore one now knows better, thus you have the duty to prevent others from doing the same things. I totally get it. I have my moments here, too. But it's also not always the correct approach, or even necessary.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Okay so she was your friend. I get it. But maybe you need to remover from your friend list. 

Alex, I'm not bashing you. I'm trying to spare you more pain. You are a drama-llama buddy. You invite unnecessary drama into your life. I'm sorry if my abrupt delivery stuns your sensibilities, but shoe-gazers like yourself sometimes need to be puled up and slapped into reality. 

This "friend" only told you the minimal amount of information about her split from the ex. The rest is invention of your mind based on hearsay evidence from people who had third hand information and from your exW's gloating over the fact that she had one more guy trying to get in her pants. 

Your exW was a cheater Alex. I know you have had a hard time digesting that, but it doesn't really matter if your ex and this guy had a thing or not. You only know about the affair that she had and what you confirmed. But nothing more. There could have been many OMs that you did not know about. Affairs devastate entire worlds. Your wife's sh!tty decisions sent ripples through all your relationships that will continue to slap against distant shores. 

Yes this guy probably had a thing for your wife, because he probably knew she was an easy cheater and he thought he had a chance at bedding her. I think you need to apologize to this lady for stirring this stuff up then walk away and leave it alone. 

I'll leave now. I won't bother you with my opinions anymore.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

alexm said:


> She was my friend, whom I introduced to my ex wife, and then we introduced her to the d-bag later on, whom she ended up dating.
> 
> You know, I don't start many threads here any more, particularly for this reason. When I do, I try to find a subject that speaks to topics relevant to TAM members, new and old. I like to start dialogues, and present information that may be helpful or otherwise of interest to people here. Sometimes this starts by me posing a question. In this case, I DID already know the answer, but was hoping to hear other peoples take on it, and maybe start a thread that people can contribute their thoughts and experiences to.
> 
> ...


She never was your friend, and that status isn't changed.

So where's the guilt coming from?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

alexm said:


> I have, and had, no sexual or romantic interest in her.


Either one or two things Dawg. Unless she made the online overture to you, you contacted her because because you have interest in her or you contacted her to explore your curiosity about whether she has knowledge about the boyfriend and your ex old lady. 

My take is you figured after so many years, she may roll over on them. She got pissed and said you need psychiatric help because she saw through it when you tried to disguise a friendly, "hey, how are you after so many years" and turned it into an interrogation when you found out she busted up with the boyfriend and caught her at a weak moment.

You need to quit pining over and investigating this woman who you couldn't satisfy, either lost or never had interest in you, and enjoyed other guys. Don't be one of these self sacrificing clowns who believes his life has more purpose if he suffers over a woman. It'll fuvk up the next seven years of your life.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> Either one or two things Dawg. Unless she made the online overture to you, you contacted her because because you have interest in her or you contacted her to explore your curiosity about whether she has knowledge about the boyfriend and your ex old lady.
> 
> My take is you figured after so many years, she may roll over on them. She got pissed and said you need psychiatric help because she saw through it when you tried to disguise a friendly, "hey, how are you after so many years" and turned it into an interrogation when you found out she busted up with the boyfriend and caught her at a weak moment.
> 
> You need to quit pining over and investigating this woman who you couldn't satisfy, either lost or never had interest in you, and enjoyed other guys. Don't be one of these self sacrificing clowns who believes his life has more purpose if he suffers over a woman. It'll fuvk up the next seven years of your life.



:iagree:


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I usually like all three of you guys posts here, but all three of you are barking up the wrong tree here, in a big big way.

And it's not because I can't handle your honesty and blunt responses or I "don't want to hear it", it's because none of you are hearing what I'm saying, and rather making it into what you want to hear, bringing it so far off topic, it's changed into something else entirely.

Where you're all right is that I have a hard time letting go when I mess something up - which I did in this case, and I feel bad about. Sue me. I have a conscience.

Where you're wrong is in everything else - particularly, and most offensive to me, is that I obviously had a thing for this person, and/or I wanted to have sex with her.

While I understand where that sentiment comes from, and it's sometimes not wrong, unfortunately, it IS offensive to, not just me, but women in general, when one believes the only reason I have an interest in a woman is because I want to sleep with her. Like women have no other purpose OR men are all the same. You've managed to make sexist comments about BOTH genders in one train of thought.

And according to ThePheonix (btw, you spelled "Phoenix" wrong  ) she must be "semi-attractive", otherwise I wouldn't have had any interest in her in the first place. And we wonder why so many women have a deep distrust of men.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

alexm said:


> While I understand where that sentiment comes from, and it's sometimes not wrong, unfortunately, it IS offensive to, not just me, but women in general, when one believes the only reason I have an interest in a woman is because I want to sleep with her. Like women have no other purpose OR men are all the same. You've managed to make sexist comments about BOTH genders in one train of thought.


I don't think you had any intentions at all of trying to sleep with her, you don't seem like the type. But....I can see why some people thought that. Being honest most times if an opposite sex friend reaches out to you after several years of no communication at all, a lot of times its because they were/are attracted to that person, and they are either just out of a relationship, or bored in the one they are in. I don't think its sexist to assume this, because in an awful lot of cases it happens to be true. 

Ask any man on here what he would think if a male friend of his wife reached out after seven years of no communication. Pretty sure most guys would think he had an ulterior motive. Perhaps my thoughts on my own gender are pessimistic, but usually when a guy reaches out after that much time he is trying to pick up a spare. But like I said, I really don't think that was your intention, I can just see why some folks thought that.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Well her relationship is just ending where as it sounds like you split with your ex years ago. I dont care how calm she seems now or back then you really dont know how she felt about her bf or the circumstances of their relationship or break up. You could have just been pouring salt in a wound and she reacted. 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LOL. This is TAM, when people see something, even if it doesn't exist, they will keep pushing the point until the thread starter leaves or someone gets banned. Men have been told we are horn dogs forever so, we sell the same stereotypes whether we believe it or not.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Jasel said:


> Well her relationship is just ending where as it sounds like you split with your ex years ago. I dont care how calm she seems now or back then you really dont know how she felt about her bf or the circumstances of their relationship or break up. You could have just been pouring salt in a wound and she reacted.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk



^^I agree^^

OP you might not have triggered, but you might have triggered her. She didn't want to hear about it when you first brought it to her, and obviously she didn't want to hear about it now. 

In her shoes I would have reacted in a similar way whether I believed it or not. It probably seemed to her like you were looking to start a bashing or b!tching session about your respective Ex's. I wouldn't want to bond over that or talk about it with someone I haven't seen or spoken to in almost a decade.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

alexm said:


> And according to ThePheonix (btw, you spelled "Phoenix" wrong  ) she must be "semi-attractive", otherwise I wouldn't have had any interest in her in the first place. And we wonder why so many women have a deep distrust of men.


By the time I discovered the transposition, it was too late. If I knew I to correct it I probably would. But what the hell, I kinda like the way its spelled.

Regarding being sexist for wanting to sleep with women, if that's true I'm guilty as hell. But I always find them interesting and so fascinating. ( and always consider them my equal, except in one specific way. They are smarter than we are. Make no mistake about it.)
Seriously, I don't know why you'd find it offensive for someone to suggest you might want to sleep with her. Plenty of other guys would want to and if she knew you felt like you'd like to, she may be flattered and receptive. (and insulted if you didn't)
If you want to make it right, why don't you just call her up, or send her a card apologizing, tell her your curiosity got the best of you, and you've missed her friendship all these years. Regardless of her reaction, you won't be worse off.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Fat good that did her huh? Was self introspection part of her curriculum while getting her degree, or did she skip that part?


Bandit, she can't even read people's facial expressions (really, *seriously* cannot read people's facial expressions) so introspection is a hell of a big ask!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ReformedHubby said:


> I don't think you had any intentions at all of trying to sleep with her, you don't seem like the type. But....I can see why some people thought that. Being honest most times if an opposite sex friend reaches out to you after several years of no communication at all, a lot of times its because they were/are attracted to that person, and they are either just out of a relationship, or bored in the one they are in. I don't think its sexist to assume this, because in an awful lot of cases it happens to be true.
> 
> Ask any man on here what he would think if a male friend of his wife reached out after seven years of no communication. Pretty sure most guys would think he had an ulterior motive. Perhaps my thoughts on my own gender are pessimistic, but usually when a guy reaches out after that much time he is trying to pick up a spare. But like I said, I really don't think that was your intention, I can just see why some folks thought that.


I don't disagree with the way you've put it. I have issues with those posters here who deal in definites. "It IS" "You ARE", etc.

While we all definitely see the same stories over and over on TAM (thus making it easy to draw conclusions the next time a similar story pops up) it's disingenuous to make these same assumptions each and every time, regardless if they have a 90% accuracy rate.

I just think it's a dangerous avenue to pursue when replying to somebody - anybody - here, particularly when a noob comes to TAM looking for advice on a touchy subject, such as infidelity.

But honestly, I have a big problem with the way some of those things are worded. For example, should the woman I'm speaking of be halfway attractive, then I must have had a romantic/sexual interest in her.

So I can only be friends with a woman who is not attractive? Or I can only want to have sex with a woman who IS attractive? Otherwise she's... what? It's OKAY to be friends with a woman, as long as she's not attractive, because obviously she poses no threat to my marriage?

What this says, in case it isn't clear, is that women are only useful for two things, as far as men are concerned, and which one she is, is dependent on what she looks like.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

ThePheonix said:


> By the time I discovered the transposition, it was too late. If I knew I to correct it I probably would. But what the hell, I kinda like the way its spelled.
> 
> Regarding being sexist for wanting to sleep with women, if that's true I'm guilty as hell. But I always find them interesting and so fascinating. ( and always consider them my equal, except in one specific way. They are smarter than we are. Make no mistake about it.)
> Seriously, I don't know why you'd find it offensive for someone to suggest you might want to sleep with her. Plenty of other guys would want to and if she knew you felt like you'd like to, she may be flattered and receptive. (and insulted if you didn't)
> If you want to make it right, why don't you just call her up, or send her a card apologizing, tell her your curiosity got the best of you, and you've missed her friendship all these years. Regardless of her reaction, you won't be worse off.


I'm just busting your chops for the name thing :wink2: My real name isn't Alexm, so I totally spelled that wrong as my username 

Pheonix, I like you and your posts (most of them) and your blunt replies (again, most of them). I like that you challenge people here, too.

Again, I guess it's a sore spot for me, as I truly don't want to sleep with every woman I find attractive. Believe me, I'm a red-blooded male, and like every other red-blooded male, I like women and I like sex.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

kristin2349 said:


> ^^I agree^^
> 
> OP you might not have triggered, but you might have triggered her. She didn't want to hear about it when you first brought it to her, and obviously she didn't want to hear about it now.
> 
> In her shoes I would have reacted in a similar way whether I believed it or not. It probably seemed to her like you were looking to start a bashing or b!tching session about your respective Ex's. I wouldn't want to bond over that or talk about it with someone I haven't seen or spoken to in almost a decade.


You're absolutely right. I probably would have, too, and it's not something I considered until now. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I probably would have reacted the same.

And the others are right, too - this woman obviously didn't feel I was important enough to try and salvage a friendship with at this point. I think we've all been there at some point in our lives, where we think more highly of somebody (whether it be a friend, relative or spouse) and it turns out we're unimportant or expendable to them. *shrug*

It's not the first time it's happened to me, but (apart from my ex wife), it IS the first time it's kind of, sort of, bothered me, and I'm not sure why. This time, though, I don't know. She reached out to me, not the other way around. We chatted and caught up online over an almost two week period, and she was the one who brought up the ex boyfriend - not me. I felt the door was open to talk about how our friendship ended all those years ago (By me telling her her boyfriend had a thing for, and possibly more, with my ex wife. That was the last I heard from her, and THAT didn't end with her tearing me a new one). I just found it strange, that's all.

Back then, I told her what I KNEW, and told her what else I suspected. She brushed it off, and I left it. I didn't pursue it any further. She was an adult, I told her what I knew to be fact, it didn't appear to concern her, or she chose not to believe it - whatever. She chose to continue her relationship with this guy, so our friendship dissolved. No biggie. Would have been impossible to continue as long as he was in the picture.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

Edit: I'm an idiot. Wrong thread.


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