# Why can't I just be happy with him?



## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I am deeply flawed. I am not perfect, I have plenty of issues. But my husband just accepts me for who I am and rarely complains about anything.
Why can't I do the same To him? Yes he is flawed and has many issues but why am I always trying to improve things with him?

I find that this is a common theme with women, and I'm not sure if it's good or bad. But I feel like my husband, and a lot of men in general just like to settle and get comfortable. And us women are never happy or satisfied. 

For me, I feel like I am my husbands biggest fan. He is so smart, and I feel like he can be amazing and do some amazing things in life. But he just wants to have this certain life where he isn't reaching his potential and I know that it's the path of least resistance but I feel like he will eventually have a mid life crisis and question his entire existence like most men do at a certain age. I love my husband as he is, but I have higher standards and expectations for him than he does for himself. As spouses I think we need to love and accept each other but I also think we should make each other better and not enable each other and sometimes we need a kick in the butt. 

I'm just ranting here but this topic is on my mind lately. I see too many unfulfilled, bored, full of routine marriages. And I know that men typically like to work hard come home and just relax and be comfortable and I get that, but then I see men turning 50 and having mid life crisis and question their whole life and get depressed. 

I don't know... anyone have any thoughts or comments?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

He is not meeting your needs. If he were to just try, you would probably be a lot happier with him.


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## EunuchMonk (Jan 3, 2016)

Successful men have mid-life crises too. Try to encourage him to be better, don't force him to be. Honestly, I think some women do the whole improvement thing with their men as compensation for their own inadequacies. Just like when you see parents trying to demand that their children take some opportunity that they didn’t take or weren’t good enough to achieve. It's vicarious success.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EunuchMonk said:


> Successful men have mid-life crises too. Try to encourage him to be better, don't force him to be. Honestly, I think some women do the whole improvement thing with their men as compensation for their own inadequacies. Just like when you see parents trying to demand that their children take some opportunity that they didn’t take or weren’t good enough to achieve. It's vicarious success.


I think women often take a mothering role with a husband. I don't think it is necessarily bad. 

Sometimes she can more easily see ways he could improve. And if he listens to her, he may be grateful he did.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

EunuchMonk said:


> Successful men have mid-life crises too. Try to encourage him to be better, don't force him to be. Honestly, I think some women do the whole improvement thing with their men as compensation for their own inadequacies. Just like when you see parents trying to demand that their children take some opportunity that they didn’t take or weren’t good enough to achieve. It's vicarious success.




That is a good point thanks. I need to focus on myself more.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

jld said:


> He is not meeting your needs. If he were to just try, you would probably be a lot happier with him.




It's not about meeting my needs. No single person can meet my needs.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> *It's not about meeting my needs.* No single person can meet my needs.


Is it painful to think it might be?

Katie, you have started many threads on the same subject. I don't think it is unreasonable to think that the bottom line might be something you have no control over. And not having control can be scary.

I would just encourage you to be as honest as possible with yourself.


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## 23cm (Dec 3, 2016)

This comes to mind: 

https://www.facebook.com/events/1089129594538156/


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

jld said:


> Is it painful to think it might be?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I understand what your saying. I respect the opinions on here that's why I post. But I don't like feeling pressured or bullied into divorcing my husband, or when people work hard to get me to come to that conclusion. This post has nothing to do with my needs not being met by my husband. Yet you take every opportunity to make it about how bad my husband is and one day I'll come to that realization. 
For a marriage site, this place spends a lot of time convincing people to get divorced rather than helping the marriage survive.
My husband is a good man. Yes he is flawed and has issues. I do not believe in trading him in for someone else. (At least right now). He is sleep deprived, works very hard, and is stressed out 24/7. Right now we have a lot of obstacles against us but we are almost to the end of his residency. And let me just say that I post about the bad things in my marriage to seek advice. So you are only reading about the negative in my marriage. 

So please stop twisting all my posts and use them as ammo against me for your agenda which you make very clear.


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

OP

IMO the problem you are describing is within YOU.

You freely admit you have faults, yet you feel entitled to judge and criticize him. call it what you want, but thats what you are doing.

Take a look in the mirror woman.....thats what you are avoiding by turning your focus on to him instead of YOUR shortcomings.

I also think this is a symptom of modern society where social media AKA FAKE BOOK or any other various forms you wish to indulge in......encourage "keeping up with the jones". Look at so and so whose husband bought her this or did that as she brags about it on social media. look how great her kids look or are doing in sports ar whatever. nobody posts their dirt up for the world to see.

People buy into this everywhere and rather than being happy with what they have, it creeps into the relationship where it has no business.

just my .02


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I understand what your saying. I respect the opinions on here that's why I post. But I don't like feeling pressured or bullied into divorcing my husband, or when people work hard to get me to come to that conclusion. This post has nothing to do with my needs not being met by my husband. Yet you take every opportunity to make it about how bad my husband is and one day I'll come to that realization.
> For a marriage site, this place spends a lot of time convincing people to get divorced rather than helping the marriage survive.
> My husband is a good man. Yes he is flawed and has issues. I do not believe in trading him in for someone else. (At least right now). He is sleep deprived, works very hard, and is stressed out 24/7. Right now we have a lot of obstacles against us but we are almost to the end of his residency. And let me just say that I post about the bad things in my marriage to seek advice. So you are only reading about the negative in my marriage.
> 
> So please stop twisting all my posts and use them as ammo against me for your agenda which you make very clear.


Katie, I am not "twisting" anything as "ammo" for an "agenda". You asked for thoughts or comments, and I gave them.

You are certainly free to do whatever you want, and I wish you good luck with whatever that happens to be.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Most men want partners, not mothers. Someone he enjoys coming home "to".

But want is different than need!!!

Yours' seems to want "support stockings", not shoe "lifts", not suspenders.

Most mature men want a women to hold, not a women to lay grudges [up against].

Men are simple creatures......... keep his belly full, his sack empty and his mind stress free. Better put, do not add any stress.

If he is rather successful, then rather is good enough.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

How many kids do you have?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> How many kids do you have?




0


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> 0


Yeah. 

That's it right there. 

Start having puppies and soon you will no longer be obsessing about what hubby is or isn't doing. Once kids come along you'll have more important things to occupy your mind.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

To answer your original question directly:

Because you are not happy with yourself, most likely.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

It's not a good idea to have kids with all of these issues going on. It'll just compound the problem not solve them. IMO

OP-Do you think once his residency is done, things will get better?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> It's not a good idea to have kids with all of these issues going on. It'll just compound the problem not solve them. IMO
> 
> OP-Do you think once his residency is done, things will get better?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




I don't know the answer to this question. We have a lot of problems. 
I also have a tendency to get depressed and create an unhealthy environment for myself and envelope myself in self pity and I allow myself to stay there for a significant amount of time. I isolate myself from friends, and I stay in my house by myself for weeks making myself more depressed and then blame my husband (who isn't 100% innocent), and take it out on my husband. I know I am partly doing it to myself. 
After residency he will have more time. Then we can go to therapy together, and I'm sure things will get worse before they get better but as long as he's willing to work on it that's all I can ask.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

So let me get this straight. Your husband is a doctor, right?

The man made it all the way through med school and is now working towards his license. And he's not ambitious enough? Am I hearing that correctly? 

Have you ever considered one of the reasons he doesn't seem to have enough ambition for your liking is because he's tired and overwhelmed at the moment? 

He is a specialist in a tremendously difficult and technical field that only a small minority of people in this world are able to master. 

How many women do you know marry doctors? How many women are set to live a comfortable and secure existence like you will once he finishes his residency and begins his practice? I feel bad for your husband. He will spend the rest of his marriage struggling to meet a standard that he can never attain.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> So let me get this straight. Your husband is a doctor, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You don't know what I'm even talking about. My husband wants to when he's finished go back to our small suburban piece of crap town. He himself has told me that he knows that he will be unhappy there, and he said he knows a piece of him will die when he moves back there but he feels like he has to (bc his parents). He has told me that he feels like... he can't believe this is it. His exact words... is this it? We're going to move back to (hometown), have kids and that's it? He is settling for a life he knows will make him unhappy. He himself has told me this.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

My husband can do anything he wants to do. He can move anywhere and do well wherever he goes. Most people don't have that luxury. But he chooses to do something that he knows will make him unhappy and live a unfulfilled life bc he feels like he owes his parents.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> My husband can do anything he wants to do. He can move anywhere and do well wherever he goes. Most people don't have that luxury. But he chooses to do something that he knows will make him unhappy and live a unfulfilled life bc he feels like he owes his parents.


Can he talk them into moving where you guys are? 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> You don't know what I'm even talking about. My husband wants to when he's finished go back to our small suburban piece of crap town. He himself has told me that he knows that he will be unhappy there, and he said he knows a piece of him will die when he moves back there but he feels like he has to (bc his parents). He has told me that he feels like... he can't believe this is it. His exact words... is this it? We're going to move back to (hometown), have kids and that's it? He is settling for a life he knows will make him unhappy. He himself has told me this.


Ahhhhhhh. Now the truth comes out. That's why you're mad at him.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> My husband can do anything he wants to do. He can move anywhere and do well wherever he goes. Most people don't have that luxury. But he chooses to do something that he knows will make him unhappy and live a unfulfilled life bc he feels like he owes his parents.


Becoming a doctor or moving back to a small town? What makes him unhappy?


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

Are his parents old and in poor health?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Becoming a doctor or moving back to a small town? What makes him unhappy?




Moving back to the small town and living a certain life there.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah.
> 
> That's it right there.
> 
> Start having puppies and soon you will no longer be obsessing about what hubby is or isn't doing. Once kids come along you'll have more important things to occupy your mind.


Bandit you are a grave loss to the diplomat world.


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## Celes (Apr 28, 2015)

Honestly, you come across as a bit of a ball buster. The choice of moving away from your family is not an easy one. I think you need to cut him some slack. 

I moved away from my family who live in a crappy and cold suburban city to live with my husband in sunny California. Let me tell you, it's hard. Especially now that we are hoping to have kids soon. I have to think about them growing up without grandparents nearby, growing up without any cousins, aunts, uncles. And the prospect of raising children without any help is daunting for us. 

Instead of getting angry at him maybe you should sit down like adults and talk about it. Try to see if you can understand his point of view a little more.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

His parents are not old or in poor health. They have a messed up dynamic. It's typically Italian. He feels guilty being away from them and they put all the pressure on him to live back there. 
I don't care where we live. My family and siblings are there too so I don't mind. 
When my husband told me he wanted to go into CT surgery I told him go for it, if it makes you happy bc that's all I care about. I will do anything and sacrifice anything if it makes him happy in the end. This has been a very long and hard road, for both of us. And to have it end where he will be unhappy.... it doesn't seem like it was worth it.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Can he talk them into moving where you guys are?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk




No bc he has siblings too.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Ahhhhhhh. Now the truth comes out. That's why you're mad at him.




Yea I'm mad at b for doing something that will end up making him unhappy. And when he's unhappy, im unhappy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> Yea I'm mad at b for doing something that will end up making him unhappy. And when he's unhappy, im unhappy.


His parents have no other kids to care for them? Are they putting pressure on him to move back home or is he putting that pressure on himself? 

And do you and your husband live in the States?


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> His parents have no other kids to care for them? Are they putting pressure on him to move back home or is he putting that pressure on himself?
> 
> 
> 
> And do you and your husband live in the States?




It's typical Italian. His parents dont have the best relationship. She is subservient wife, he is head of the house strict man. She had her kids and poured everything into them, treated them like kings. They were her source of friendship and happiness. (There is truth to the weird Italian son relationship). My husband moves away and she is upset but still have another son. She gets mad at my husband for not calling her every single day. Her other son hangs out with her like they are BFF. When her husband goes to bed at 8pm every night, she hangs out with her son. 
She tells my husband that she never wants to retire. And she has made remarks like... what am I going to do when I retire?? (Hinting to being board and unhappy with her husband). And she puts pressure on her kids that they need to all live in the same town and hang out all the time and have Sunday dinner and blah blah blah. Both my husband and my BIL feel that they are responsible for their parents happiness.

Yes we live in the states.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

It's a twisted dynamic. They put pressure on him but they play this guilt trip game that ends up with him feeling responsible for his parents so he in tern puts pressure on himself also.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> It's typical Italian. His parents dont have the best relationship. She is subservient wife, he is head of the house strict man. She had her kids and poured everything into them, treated them like kings. They were her source of friendship and happiness. (There is truth to the weird Italian son relationship). My husband moves away and she is upset but still have another son. She gets mad at my husband for not calling her every single day. Her other son hangs out with her like they are BFF. When her husband goes to bed at 8pm every night, she hangs out with her son.
> She tells my husband that she never wants to retire. And she has made remarks like... what am I going to do when I retire?? (Hinting to being board and unhappy with her husband). And she puts pressure on her kids that they need to all live in the same town and hang out all the time and have Sunday dinner and blah blah blah. Both my husband and my BIL feel that they are responsible for their parents happiness.
> 
> Yes we live in the states.


I hate people like your MIL. They think their kids owe them something, and that is not right. 

Your husband needs to stand up to her and tell her he cannot be happy in Boringville. Parents should sacrifice so that their kids can grow up, become mature and responsible adults, and sprout wings and fly away. Parents should not pressure their children to stay close just for their selfish sakes. Your MIL sounds like she has never developed any friendships outside her husband and family, which is why her husband is sick of her. 

Your husband needs to man up and tell her no. She will be pissed at him for a while, but she will get over it.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Sounds to me like you want a husband with more spine.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> Sounds to me like you want a husband with more spine.




Yea but that would never ever ever happen. I have spent a lot of time trying to get him to stand up but it's just not in his DNA. I accepted the fact that he will never stand up against his parents. He loves them and he thinks it's disrespectful even though it's not. I have accepted him, and I get along well with his family now because I knew I had to if I wanted a happy husband and happy life.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

katiecrna said:


> I am deeply flawed. I am not perfect, I have plenty of issues.
> Who told you that? Where and how did you first get the idea/feeling that you are: flawed, imperfect and carry plenty of "issues"? I'm guessing from your own parents!
> 
> But my husband just accepts me for who I am and rarely complains about anything.
> ...


It's SIMPLE! 
A "mid life crisis" is nothing more than a person finally being _overwhelmed_ with disturbed and damaged feelings/memories, from a nasty past, that they can no longer hold down and the damaged feeling come out as: unhappiness, fear, boredom, RAGE, DRINKING, sadness, depression, wild desires, irresponsibility, craziness, infidelity, cruelty, passive/aggressive behaviors, hopelessness, serious pain and illness and a huge assortment of weird and rarely understood expressions or examples of sick and damaged feelings coming to the surface TO BE HEALED! 
By mid life, many of us no longer have the power or ability to DENY our deep and troubled feelings any longer nor keep them safely stuffed away inside of us so they HAVE TO COME OUT at that time or when triggered. 
This is why some old geezers are so CRANKY or seem hopelessly surrendered to their fate!
I don't see much of society ever understanding the dire nature of hidden, bottled up trauma which fuels stuff like: riots, police brutality and murders, all crime and wars, domestic violence, child abuse, rape, arson, white collar crime, dirty politicians, bullying, racism and on and on. It's all about unrecognized and unhealed TRAUMA - usually during our early childhood.
Calling it a "Mid life crisis" is just another type of DENIAL or DELUSION meant to avoid looking at the emotional reality for these apparent victims of middle age! Their unresolved traumas are POPPING OUT!


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

katiecrna said:


> bc he feels like he owes his parents.


Many folks get caught in that emotional trap so some kind of counseling or therapy might help him focus on what he wants FOR HIM SELF (and you) to have a happy, meaningful life rather than bow down to his parents.


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## jimrich (Sep 26, 2010)

katiecrna said:


> Yea but that would never ever ever happen. I have spent a lot of time trying to get him to stand up but it's just not in his DNA. I accepted the fact that he will never stand up against his parents. He loves them and he thinks it's disrespectful even though it's not. I have accepted him, and I get along well with his family now because I knew I had to if I wanted a happy husband and happy life.


I hate to say it BUT.... You might have to soberly and SERIOUSLY tell him that it's either you OR his parents (mother) and let him know that you MEAN BUSINESS because, unless he takes you OVER THEM, you will alway be in 2nd place in his life. Spine or no spine, your own mate and spouse NEEDS TO BE totally committee to and FOR you or the marriage will end up like his parent's is now - slave/master, one up/one down, boss/help, top dog/bottom dog, etc. 
I'd sit him down and very seriously give him an ULTIMATUM - them or me! And be ready to walk if he fails to pick you OVER HIS PARENTS!
I'm guessing that you do not want to live as a 2nd class servant no matter what town or place you both end up in. 
IMO, doctors are real good at having 2nd class: mates, help, friends, etc.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

jimrich said:


> I hate to say it BUT.... You might have to soberly and SERIOUSLY tell him that it's either you OR his parents (mother) and let him know that you MEAN BUSINESS because, unless he takes you OVER THEM, you will alway be in 2nd place in his life. Spine or no spine, your own mate and spouse NEEDS TO BE totally committee to and FOR you or the marriage will end up like his parent's is now - slave/master, one up/one down, boss/help, top dog/bottom dog, etc.
> I'd sit him down and very seriously give him an ULTIMATUM - them or me! And be ready to walk if he fails to pick you OVER HIS PARENTS!
> I'm guessing that you do not want to live as a 2nd class servant no matter what town or place you both end up in.
> IMO, doctors are real good at having 2nd class: mates, help, friends, etc.




Yea I'm not going to do this. I don't need him to choose me or his family. He can have us both. Im a mature adult. I only have 1 set of parents no one will make me choose between them so I'm not going to do this with him. I love his parents. They are my family too.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> For me, I feel like I am my husbands biggest fan. He is so smart, and I feel like he can be amazing and do some amazing things in life. But he just wants to have this certain life where he isn't reaching his potential and I know that it's the path of least resistance but I feel like he will eventually have a mid life crisis and question his entire existence like most men do at a certain age. I love my husband as he is, but I have higher standards and expectations for him than he does for himself.


I sympathize with you, but here is a counterpoint what seems to be your perspective and might be where your husband is coming from.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> Yea but that would never ever ever happen. I have spent a lot of time trying to get him to stand up but it's just not in his DNA. I accepted the fact that he will never stand up against his parents. He loves them and he thinks it's disrespectful even though it's not. I have accepted him, and I get along well with his family now because I knew I had to if I wanted a happy husband and happy life.


Okay. Now we understand what you're angry about. 

My recommendation is the next time you post to a forum, come out and state simply what is going on, instead of being murky and indistinct. It will save you and everyone else a lot of frustration. 

If your husband is a good Catholic boy, remind him that the Bible tells husbands to "leave your parents and cling to your wife" in order to prevent exactly what is happening now. You married a momma's boy, and you have to find some way to either adjust to that reality, or start making your own reality.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> Yea I'm not going to do this. I don't need him to choose me or his family. He can have us both. Im a mature adult. I only have 1 set of parents no one will make me choose between them so I'm not going to do this with him. I love his parents. They are my family too.


This is unrealistic. 

This makes no sense. Why would you chain yourself to a frustrating life like this?

You and your husband need to have a long serious talk, and you need to tell him what you told us.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

I have. We talk about it a lot. He doesn't feel like he will be happy in our home town but he knows he can't live with himself if something happened to his parents. Family is important to him. I'm trying to get him to move somewhere else, somewhere where he thinks he will happier.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I am deeply flawed. I am not perfect, I have plenty of issues. But my husband just accepts me for who I am and rarely complains about anything.
> Why can't I do the same To him? Yes he is flawed and has many issues but why am I always trying to improve things with him?
> 
> I find that this is a common theme with women, and I'm not sure if it's good or bad. But I feel like my husband, and a lot of men in general just like to settle and get comfortable. And us women are never happy or satisfied.
> ...


Or maybe he is just happy with who he is, maybe the problem isn't who he is but how you feel he reflects on you. This reads like, my husband is fine with who he is but I am not. 

You can per-emptivly try to force him to change because of your fear of his possible mid life crisis but I don't think that is going to work out well for you.

I Read more [scratch all this see below]


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

So reading this post it sounds more like you are afraid that your Mother in law will effect your marriage. Which makes sense, and you are also afraid that your husband will have a mid life crisis possible because of how busy he is with school, I bet this is making you feel insecure. I don't think your issues have anything to do with him reaching his potential. I think to fix these issues you need to get down to what it is you really are struggling with. His potential isn't one of them in my opinion.

You need to really work on the ML thing with him. Honestly though part of this is a cultural thing. It is going to be very hard to change the culture you married into. This is similar to marrying into an eastern culture, when you do that you have to understand that family is the primary focus of all relationships. In an Italian family their are lots of moma's boys. 

He shouldn't be operating out of guilt or fear though. If he is then that is where you need to work.


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## Justsayin4897 (Jan 22, 2016)

jld said:


> I think women often take a mothering role with a husband. I don't think it is necessarily bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes she can more easily see ways he could improve. And if he listens to her, he may be grateful he did.




I am so not trying to mother mine **** he is a very spoiled man because of his mother and I am so very guilty of it also!! Somebody should have warned me or something!! Lol


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

katiecrna said:


> It's a twisted dynamic. They put pressure on him but they play this guilt trip game that ends up with him feeling responsible for his parents so he in tern puts pressure on himself also.


Sorry to say this, but you guys moving back to his hometown will be the kiss of death to your marriage. His time will be monopolized by his family. Be prepared.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I am deeply flawed. I am not perfect, I have plenty of issues. But my husband just accepts me for who I am and rarely complains about anything.
> Why can't I do the same To him? Yes he is flawed and has many issues but why am I always trying to improve things with him?
> 
> I find that this is a common theme with women, and I'm not sure if it's good or bad. But I feel like my husband, and a lot of men in general just like to settle and get comfortable. And us women are never happy or satisfied.
> ...


 @katiecrna... 

Life is not ideal... it cannot keep up with our expectations, often in the best of circumstances, but there are times we do we get those blessed moments and when they come, it feels like the lottery.

Problem is, we can't hit the lottery all the time... many of us never, yet we desire it.

So we play and invest, setting up the expectation that the next ticket is going to be a winner for sure and that our expectations are going to be met!

Then the number are drawn... and disappointment, our investment seemingly squandered. 

Squander too often, and we become frustrated that our expectations are not giving us a return on the emotions we've placed wanting more and more, never fulfilling and we suffer.

I've watched your journey and care for your successful peace wherever it may have led you. Leave or stay, you are supported. I personally prefer to see you stay if your best path takes you there, but if it doesn't, taking care of self is our compassionate hope for you too. All who offer insight to your looking inward more with focus care about you.

I have to smile a little though my friend, you "love your husband as he is, yet have higher standards and expectations for him than he does himself"... as I work to place this in acceptance .vs expectations, I'm not quite sure how this works, not that it doesn't for you, but I feel I am missing some clarity in my own understanding with this.

We often have a transference in our unhappiness, like water sloshing around in a carried bowl. the waves created by jostling around as we move the bowl from table to table and the water spills over as we carry and set it down getting our lottery tickets wet, unable to scratch or paper flimsy and prone to tear, ink smudged... unusable.

Worse before better... moving the bowl from table to table until the bowl suddenly seems to not spill any more water, our negative attachments, because the level is now workable and no longer damaging our tickets. What if we simply started our journey with the bowl less full?

I have a phrase I use often in my life... "minimize for success", helps me keep perspective when I become overloaded with frustrations. Looking back at our conversations, I do not think the source of all your frustrations lead to a single place such as his residency finishing and landing back into Hometown, USA... I think they are a much more spread out dynamic than mother-in-law and tied to losing Sunday afternoons with family dinners. 

True, they complicate things, but no singular placement. Between a cluttered life of schedules, dishes, clothes, cars, expectations, frustrations, respectful considerations, lost relationship nurturing, school, residency... unmindful craziness.

I would be depressed too, tired of wet hands and messes, not to mention my ruined outlook at a winning number. 

Seriously, I'll never fault you for having soggy lottery tickets... but keeping your bowl too full after knowing your tickets are going to keep getting destroyed is not going to work unless you forget the lottery and begin investing in a textile company stock who makes towels.

We should begin accepting that our bowl carries better less full than the expectation that we'll not have any spills. At the same time, his bowel of relationships with his parents need to be less full than his relationship with his wife... both are valuable, but yours simply carries more.

Keep your tickets minimal... and dry.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

People are complicated. Is is weakness, habit or dedication / honor that makes him want to wrap his life around his family? He may not know himself.

OP: I think you should carefully consider what things you want him to change for his own good and what you want him to change for yours. There is nothing wrong with wanting change for yourself, but just be honest with yourself about your motivations.

"Success" will not stave off mid life crisis - there is always more to wish for. I'm an unhappy guy in my 50s despite having more than I had ever dreamed of when I was growing up. I think it is just natural to at some point see the limits of where you are going, and to wish you had gone somewhere else.


The same applies to you - you will never get everything you dream of because whatever you get there is always more you might want.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

This can be tricky as what you describe is largely cultural. And snippets of what you have shared remind me very much of a friend also married to a fairly traditional Italian man. He lives away from his family but his dad calls him every day. As my husband and I have dysfunctional families, we both considered this to be special and endearing. He has shared a lot of what family life means to him. He is wanting to live close to his wife's family (my friend), in her old hometown that she has no interest in... and while he has a lucrative career ahead of him, his focus is working close to family rather than earning more. However where your scenario differs is that your husband has an 'is this it?' mentality. I suspect he feels a duality with that dissatisfaction. One that has him living his life as he chooses independently; the other that considers his cultural upbringing. 

Reading this thread, I've nodded along with bandit's comments to you... 

I also think it's less about ambition and more about identity / values. And that's something he will need to reconcile within himself. It must feel frustrating for you to observe that though.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

As a bonafide W.A.S.P. male I am heartily against taking care of parents. That's what rest homes are for dammit!


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

It was a joke... okay? I was just kidding....


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

It's a cultural thing. In Italian families, you are supposed to go all the way out and take care of your parents later in life (to the extent of living with them) and most kids are brought up with those values in mind. I don't think it has anything to do with having a 'spine'.
Perhaps this life style is still possible in Italy (where large families live in the country side) but for your situation, perhaps a compromise is possible? (Frequent/extended visits from both sides etc). Nowadays, air travel makes it easy. (Though in US, air travel is a major PITA).


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> I am deeply flawed. I am not perfect, I have plenty of issues. But my husband just accepts me for who I am and rarely complains about anything.
> Why can't I do the same To him? Yes he is flawed and has many issues but why am I always trying to improve things with him?
> 
> I find that this is a common theme with women, and I'm not sure if it's good or bad. But I feel like my husband, and a lot of men in general just like to settle and get comfortable. And us women are never happy or satisfied.
> ...


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/358073-a.html

Just reminding you of your own words.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

3Xnocharm said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/considering-divorce-separation/358073-a.html
> 
> Just reminding you of your own words.


Yeah she's all over the place. 

He's passive aggressive. He's immature. He's not ambitious enough. He's a momma's boy....


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

katiecrna said:


> I understand what your saying. I respect the opinions on here that's why I post. But I don't like feeling pressured or bullied into divorcing my husband, or when people work hard to get me to come to that conclusion. This post has nothing to do with my needs not being met by my husband. Yet you take every opportunity to make it about how bad my husband is and one day I'll come to that realization.
> For a marriage site, this place spends a lot of time convincing people to get divorced rather than helping the marriage survive.
> My husband is a good man. Yes he is flawed and has issues. I do not believe in trading him in for someone else. (At least right now). *He is sleep deprived, works very hard, and is stressed out 24/7. Right now we have a lot of obstacles against us but we are almost to the end of his residency.* And let me just say that I post about the bad things in my marriage to seek advice. So you are only reading about the negative in my marriage.


I am not a Dr but from what I understand residency is pretty brutal on anyone, I had friends came very close to just quitting at the end of it. No one who is sleep deprived, working hard on something that needs total focus and stressed out 24/7 is capable of making reasonable decisions about what they want in their future. 

Maybe you should suggest that he just aims for the end of residency and then when the pressure and stress are off and he has caught up on some sleep the two of you can discuss your future path together over a period of time. From personal experience when you get deeply fatigued, as he undoubtedly is, it takes a long time, weeks or months, to recover. A couple of good nights sleep won't cut it.



katiecrna said:


> I don't know the answer to this question. We have a lot of problems.
> I also have a tendency to get depressed and create an unhealthy environment for myself and envelope myself in self pity and I allow myself to stay there for a significant amount of time. I isolate myself from friends, and I stay in my house by myself for weeks making myself more depressed and then blame my husband (who isn't 100% innocent), and take it out on my husband. I know I am partly doing it to myself.
> After residency he will have more time. Then we can go to therapy together, and I'm sure things will get worse before they get better but as long as he's willing to work on it that's all I can ask.


I'm sorry for your problems and depression is a tough one. Why not try going to therapy yourself and make an effort at getting control of your own issues so they have a lesser effect on the whole picture rather than waiting for him to finish residency then go together?



katiecrna said:


> You don't know what I'm even talking about. My husband wants to when he's finished go back to our small suburban piece of crap town. He himself has told me that he knows that he will be unhappy there, and he said he knows a piece of him will die when he moves back there but he feels like he has to (bc his parents). He has told me that he feels like... he can't believe this is it. His exact words... is this it? We're going to move back to (hometown), have kids and that's it? He is settling for a life he knows will make him unhappy. He himself has told me this.


As I said above put this decision off for a period. Wait until his residency is over and he is able to consider and get excited about alternative possibilities.



katiecrna said:


> It's typical Italian. His parents dont have the best relationship. She is subservient wife, he is head of the house strict man. She had her kids and poured everything into them, treated them like kings. They were her source of friendship and happiness. (There is truth to the weird Italian son relationship). My husband moves away and she is upset but still have another son. She gets mad at my husband for not calling her every single day. Her other son hangs out with her like they are BFF. When her husband goes to bed at 8pm every night, she hangs out with her son.
> She tells my husband that she never wants to retire. And she has made remarks like... what am I going to do when I retire?? (Hinting to being board and unhappy with her husband). And she puts pressure on her kids that they need to all live in the same town and hang out all the time and have Sunday dinner and blah blah blah. Both my husband and my BIL feel that they are responsible for their parents happiness.
> 
> Yes we live in the states.


She expects him to phone every day when he works 12-24 hour shifts? Yeah that's pretty unreasonable.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

katiecrna said:


> I am deeply flawed. I am not perfect, I have plenty of issues. But my husband just accepts me for who I am and rarely complains about anything.
> Why can't I do the same To him? Yes he is flawed and has many issues but why am I always trying to improve things with him?
> 
> I find that this is a common theme with women, and I'm not sure if it's good or bad. But I feel like my husband, and a lot of men in general just like to settle and get comfortable. And us women are never happy or satisfied.
> ...




As a man who recently turned 50, had a MLC, and is depressed, i am asking how was Christmas Day?

Was your H home or did he work all day or text on his phone all day?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

katiecrna said:


> I have. We talk about it a lot. He doesn't feel like he will be happy in our home town but he knows he can't live with himself if something happened to his parents. Family is important to him. I'm trying to get him to move somewhere else, somewhere where he thinks he will happier.


I've been reading about your husband's happiness a lot in this thread, but shouldn't you both make decisions that bring about the most marital happiness? Yea, you both need to be happy as individuals, but it seems like you're focused on your husband's happiness over your own, as if only when he is happy, then you'll be happy. You both matter equally, and maybe you need to both focus more on that part of it? Just how I'm seeing it, anyways.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> My husband can do anything he wants to do. He can move anywhere and do well wherever he goes. Most people don't have that luxury. But he chooses to do something that he knows will make him unhappy and live a unfulfilled life bc he feels like he owes his parents.


Have you told him these exact words? 
Better yet, just print them and show him.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> As a man who recently turned 50, had a MLC, and is depressed, i am asking how was Christmas Day?
> 
> Was your H home or did he work all day or text on his phone all day?




It was good because we spent time with our families. He wasn't the most fun or present but I had a lot of fun with my siblings and his.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Satya said:


> Have you told him these exact words?
> Better yet, just print them and show him.




Yes I have told him these exact words. He agrees with me. He said that there is compromise to everywhere we go. He said he doesn't know what makes him happy anymore.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

katiecrna said:


> It's typical Italian. His parents dont have the best relationship. She is subservient wife, he is head of the house strict man. She had her kids and poured everything into them, treated them like kings. They were her source of friendship and happiness. (There is truth to the weird Italian son relationship). My husband moves away and she is upset but still have another son. She gets mad at my husband for not calling her every single day. Her other son hangs out with her like they are BFF. When her husband goes to bed at 8pm every night, she hangs out with her son.
> She tells my husband that she never wants to retire. And she has made remarks like... what am I going to do when I retire?? (Hinting to being board and unhappy with her husband). And she puts pressure on her kids that they need to all live in the same town and hang out all the time and have Sunday dinner and blah blah blah. Both my husband and my BIL feel that they are responsible for their parents happiness.
> 
> Yes we live in the states.


This is a shame...doesn't his mother have friends, a life outside of her sons ? At the beginning of this thread... it seemed it was more about Ambition.. and I was saying to myself ..."Wait a minute.. she is married to a guy in residency, going to be a Doctor...WHAT [email protected]#$"... but now I see what is at play here... I think @heartsbeating summed it up well... he is torn to be there -remain in his home town (cultural Italian upbringing)...over caring for his own happiness/ his own family...

I think that cultural upbringing is endearing myself -if a family ISN'T dysfunctional ... add to it a Mother who is lonely, toxic ... wanting to suck so much time from a busy son & his marriage... this can destroy a marriage... my husband knew a guy who divorced over his wife needing to spend so much time with HER parents.. if they moved.. she had to move, she was always over there...eventually he had enough.... 

It's not healthy... have you ever picked up a book like this... Toxic In-Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage 



> Toxic in–laws are in–laws who create genuine chaos through various assaults––aggressive or subtle––on you and your marriage. Toxic–in laws come in a wide variety of guises, " *The Critics*.; ", who tell you what you're doing wrong, "*The Controllers.*;", who try to run you and your partner's life, " *The Engulfers*.;", who make incessant demands on your time, " The Masters of Chaos.;", who drain you and your partner with their problems, and, " *The Rejecters*.;", who let you know they don't want you as part of their family.
> 
> Susan Forward draws on real–life voices and stories of both women and men struggling to free themselves from the frustrating, hurtful and infuriating relationships with their toxic in–laws. Dr. Forward offers you highly effective communication and behavioral techniques for getting through to partners who won't or can't stand up to their parents. Next, she lays out accessible and practical ways to reclaim you marriage from your in–laws. She shows you what to say, what to do and what limits to set. If you follow these strategies, you may not turn toxic in–laws into the in–laws of your dreams, but you will find some peace in your relationship with them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'd be finding a way to get him into therapy to help him figure out his guilt issues and what he really wants.


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