# What type of man chases married woman?



## SteveK

So here's my question. Why would a beautiful woman with a family and a financially secure life date a guy who's wife claims he always try's to start relationships with married woman.

The other part is my wife for 25 years ripped into woman who had affairs, she also said men who chase married woman are the scum of the earth. But in her case where she believed she gave him the "look" it was ok to have an affair, and then even after he admitted it was he who started it, she believes that he is a better, deeper, has more soul, sweeter and kinder man than me. The scary thing is all of his friends and colleagues who know that he runs religious tours in Israel, seem to condone his affair with my wife. And those that don't he covers it up by making like he rescued her from a horrific life with me.

Ladies men who pursue married woman are sick, they have a desire to get what is not there's, they WILL CHEAT on you too eventually ....


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## xakulax

SteveK said:


> So here's my question. Why would a beautiful woman with a family and a financially secure life date a guy who's wife claims he always try's to start relationships with married woman.
> 
> The other part is my wife for 25 years ripped into woman who had affairs, she also said men who chase married woman are the scum of the earth. But in her case where she believed she gave him the "look" it was ok to have an affair, and then even after he admitted it was he who started it, she believes that he is a better, deeper, has more soul, sweeter and kinder man than me. The scary thing is all of his friends and colleagues who know that he runs religious tours in Israel, seem to condone his affair with my wife. And those that don't he covers it up by making like he rescued her from a horrific life with me.
> 
> Ladies men who pursue married woman are sick, they have a desire to get what is not there's, they WILL CHEAT on you too eventually ....



You know whats even sicker the married woman who decides it's worth it


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## In_The_Wind

Married women are easy , and most don't want a relationship just sex. Limited time commitment, some sick puppies think it's manly to bed another guys wife etc etc not as much fear of stds

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## SteveK

In_The_Wind said:


> Married women are easy , and most don't want a relationship just sex. Limited time commitment, some sick puppies think it's manly to bed another guys wife etc etc not as much fear of stds
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


What about the guy that convinces her to,leave her family run off with him, get divorced and then marry her! 

In my case I think he thinks my STBXW, has money, will get him american citizenship and is pretty hot for 53 and the best looking woman he could ever get.


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## ThePheonix

Married men chase married woman because they want a partner that has as much to lose as they do. Single men chase married woman because they are cheap dates, with little guesswork as to what to expect from the relationship. (a shorter distance to the bedroom)
What type man does it? Out of 10 guys, pick any 7 or 8 that would do it if the circumstances presented itself. And it's ego building to feel she is willing to risk everything to be with you.
When I was doing a little escorting, I believed I was providing a service. She needs someone to make her feel special and the most desirable and interesting woman in the room and I enjoyed doing that.


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## alexm

SteveK said:


> What about the guy that convinces her to,leave her family run off with him, get divorced and then marry her!
> 
> In my case I think he thinks my STBXW, has money, will get him american citizenship and is pretty hot for 53 and the best looking woman he could ever get.


She deserves what's coming!


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## nickgtg

It's funny how it seems most of the anger is usually directed to the person outside the marriage but what about the married spouse who willingly made the decision as well?

The married person simply has to say no, and that's pretty much it.


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## thummper

Hey, you can do better. There are women out there that would kill to land a good man like you. Your stbx will discover soon enough what an empty life she has chosen. Hope she suffers greatly for it!


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## sandc

First of all, the guys who do this deserve whatever happens to them. And all that implies.

Secondly, I think we men tend to blame ourselves for something that is broken in our spouse. If she's that easy, hell, let him have her.


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## SteveK

thummper said:


> Hey, you can do better. There are women out there that would kill to land a good man like you. Your stbx will discover soon enough what an empty life she has chosen. Hope she suffers greatly for it!


Thanks thumper!


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## Paladin

a POSOM?


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## Horizon

Steve, it hurts when you are kicked off the totem pole (if you were ever really on it). 

My WS maintains that the POSE (Piece of Slithering Excrement) made her feel good. He told her what she needed to hear and then her clothes magically fell off.

He's married with two and apparently he's been at it for some time. He's got the job and the looks and she fell for it like others have - so my WS says. No excuse of course.

The thing is he's a coward. I scared the tripe out of him and he collapsed like a deck of cards - told me everything. These blokes are all cowards.

Trouble is it doesn't make it hurt any less. Let me tell you Steve I have spent nearly 12 months dealing with this, living in limbo land and doing false reconciliation. Not any more. 2014 is my year. Make 2014 your year Steve


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## Paladin

Horizon said:


> These blokes are all cowards.


Truth right there, simple and to the point.


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## Dyokemm

Steve,

Your WW's POS is a pathetic excuse for a man and a human being. A total scumbag and piece of filth.

Expose him far and wide in every way possible. 

Sue his employer for alienation of affection since he was the religious tour guide they assigned to your family and he's a F'ing predator.

In other words, ruin this POS in every way possible.

But the real issue for you here is your foolish WW.

Why would you ever want anything to do with such a faithless and worthless woman ever again?

Expose her useless a** right along with him. Both of your families and all of your close friends need to know what she is.

File for D immediately, and only discuss your kids and the divorce proceedings.

A woman who is that disloyal does you a favor when she finally shows you her true self.

It gives you the chance to kick their worthless a**es to the curb hard and move on to better times and people in your life.


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## manfromlamancha

You described a significant number of men in the Mediterranean unfortunately and yes, they are all soul-less scum. The fact that they are without souls means they will never know what they are missing out on, integrity wise, unfortunately. Is this scumbag who sells religious tours from Israel ? Is he younger ? Is he trying to get into the USA ?

You should also start up a thread on "what kind of wives ..."


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## Jellybeans

It could be many reasons. Maybe the man sees the married woman as the best bet to have an affair with because it will be discreet and no crazy tie-ups like having her get all crazy about him, since she is already married to another, so, a light/casual relationship; it could be because he is emotionally unavailable; insecure, because he is in love, or because it's all he's known.

The reasons would depend on the individual man.


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## Philat

The *reasons* that players pursue married women are different from the *kind of person* these players are:

Reasons: married women are better bets for NSA hookups
married women can be lonely for affection
married women come with a patsy for potential pregnancy
married women carry the thrill of forbidden fruit
etc.

Kind of person: Cowardly a$$hole pretty well sums it up.


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## SteveK

manfromlamancha said:


> You described a significant number of men in the Mediterranean unfortunately and yes, they are all soul-less scum. The fact that they are without souls means they will never know what they are missing out on, integrity wise, unfortunately. Is this scumbag who sells religious tours from Israel ? Is he younger ? Is he trying to get into the USA ?
> 
> You should also start up a thread on "what kind of wives ..."


Actually I am younger then both of them. He is a couple of months younger. My wife is in incredible shape for 50+. Weight lifts I mean heavy intense weightlifting, does all the p-90X tapes etc. I am physically in the same boat.

POSOM is over weight diabetic drinks ten cups of coffee a day, eats crap, bad teeth, weird haircut, big bulbuous nose , ( my STBXW is still a head turner). 
He has skinny legs, does walk a lot. Knows a lot about Israel and history and has made hundreds of contacts as a tour guide. Actually visits with all these different people when he travels. They also invite him to speak on issues in the Middle East. Claims to have been in Israeli Special Forces, injured severely almost died ( ah shucks) in Lebanese war in Early 1980's. Looks like he's 65+.

Married young to another Iraqi Jew, had one son, then got divorced and met a woman he lived with for 21 years, claims he had multiple relationships because he was never happy with her. Claims she became jealous and possessive! Had a six month affair with an American. When she broke it off went crawling and crying back to this woman.

Met my wife as I have described in my thread, she got infatuated, he went in for the kill. Split permanently with other woman, moved to his hometown lives on a kibbutz now. She does not believe any of the other stories, plus says he had therapy for his relationship addiction. Started as EA with her telling him of every fight argument etc..he began to get to her with his stories and then boom, it just blew up in my face.

I believe that compared to most women he can get she's a 10 physically, he will fight for that tooth and nail. He's also got her sold on this entire fantasy life of no pressure no worries. If they stick it out she will have been back and fourth to Israel three times this year.

Scary thing is she was always a proud Jew but so far from religious it's scary, hardly went to services, never ever had a Bat-Mitzvah, it's like she flipped a lid into this world of religion and heritage, I believe I am competing with that's more than with him. She calls this her REBIRTH ! :sleeping:

Oh I truly believe he wants to get United States Citizenship! But he also wants her to marry him and move to Israel, no regards to her two sons and their future children and families!


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## alexm

I think it all comes down to self esteem. I think just about every decision one makes in life comes down to self esteem.

There are folks out there who walk the walk and talk the talk, but inside, they're in dire need of acceptance, and love, and intimacy. In short, they need this type of thing from whomever, whenever, and it adds to their false sense of confidence.

Humans are genetically engineered to pro-create. Settling down with one mate, biologically speaking, is not easy for some. The instinct, however deep in the brain, is still there to mate with multiple partners in order to continue on your own genetic offspring.

So the act of partnering up for life is more of a construct of modern times, which we are told is what we are supposed to do. But the instinct is still there, in all of us. The difference in those of us who know better and those who don't is what creates the line in the sand. And self esteem, confidence (or a lack of it) is what pushes those people across that line. It comes down to base animal instinct vs. the human conscience, imo. Whichever is stronger will win out.

Furthermore, as in many non-human species, the act of a non-partnered male taking another males partner is quite common. Again, instinct, in order to ensure YOUR line prevails, rather than the other males.

What separates us from the animals is that we have a structured society in which there are rules (spoken and unspoken) and a code of conduct in which we are supposed to abide by.

So in essence, people who take other peoples mates are pretty much animals acting on instinct. An instinct that is slowly being bred out of our species for good reason - there is no longer a necessity to populate the planet any further, as there once was.


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## Jellybeans

alexm said:


> So in essence, people who take other peoples mates are pretty much animals acting on instinct.


But can a mate really be "taken?" when we talk about humans? There is free will.


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## WyshIknew

Well assuming she takes the bait.

A type of man who she was willing to jeopardise her marriage for.
A type of man who she was sexually attracted to.
A type of man who meant more to her than her feelings for you.
A type of man who she was willing to hurt her kids for.
A type of man who was probably laughing at you while he was enjoying your wife.


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## SteveK

WyshIknew said:


> Well assuming she takes the bait.
> 
> A type of man who she was willing to jeopardise her marriage for.
> BELIEVES HES HER TWIN SOUL
> 
> Recognizing The Twin Soul | Soul Love
> 
> A type of man who she was sexually attracted to.
> 
> SHE SAYS SHE KNOWS HES UGLY BUT I am to shallow to realize its not about the looks (Our MC says she wants to be the physically superior partner, the better shape I got in the further I pushed her away)
> 
> A type of man who meant more to her than her feelings for you.
> SHE SAID THAT HE IS SWEET AND NEEDY AND OUR FIGHTS AND ARGUMENTS MADE HER SOUL NUMB!
> 
> A type of man who she was willing to hurt her kids
> I BELIEVE SUBCONSCIOUSLY SHE BLAMES MY 15 YEAR OLD's ANXIETY AND MY 21 YEAR OLD's ENGAGEMENT AND MOVING ON FOR HER UNHAPPINESS.
> 
> A type of man who was probably laughing at you while he was enjoying your wife.AGREED HE SAW IT AS A COMPETITION AND BECAUSE MOST WOMAN LEAVE HIM HE WAS NOT GOING TO LET HER GO!!


:iagree:


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## StayInIt

What does your rabbi say?


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## Thorburn

Sounds like her Jewish leaning is from the House of Hillel. AN early 1st century Rabbi who basically stated that you can divorce over anything. Easy breezy. Burn the toast = grounds for divorce.

One thought. So your wife fell for a piece of scum like you describe. Personally, I would walk and just scratch my head. Your case is just another reason why cheating makes no sense. We will never figure it out.


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## DarkHoly

Cuckolding another male is fun. Pure and simple. Depending on the kind of person who's doing it, the act spawns or satiates a god complex. It establishes dominance- the woman has yielded to the man of her choice, and has allowed another to usurp your territory. Pride is perhaps the most demonic of all vices. Two men may fight over the same woman, but a man who is filled with pride will steal your woman because she is yours. Centuries ago infidelity was punished by death, and those who engaged in it were either daring and powerful or very stupid. 

Now, there are no consequences, at least none that would matter to one with such a rigid sense of self-preservation and self-gratification. So anyone can do it and get away with it. So they do.

People have no one to blame but themselves. This is one of the many results of abiding obviously immoral behavior such as wanton sex and movements such as humanism and feminism. At some point these destructive philosophies will crumble but until then many men are going to feel the sting of this error.


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## Jellybeans

DarkHoly said:


> Two men may fight over the same woman, but a man who is filled with pride *will steal your woman* because she is yours.


I was with you all the way until the stealing part.

Women can't be stolen from a man. Unless you know, they are kidnapped or murdered.


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## DarkHoly

Jellybeans said:


> I was with you all the way until the stealing part.
> 
> Women can't be stolen from a man. Unless you know, they are kidnapped or murdered.


Then continue to be with me, my good Miss. I would never imply that the woman has no say in the matter. In fact I believe that the WS is always the sole person to blame. Most people will take offense to that, but I really believe it to be so. If my woman is beautiful and fertile I can _count_ on other men trying to take her. It's up to her if they do or not. She's the one in the relationship, not them. She's the one responsible, not them. To get angry at a man for wanting my woman is to get angry at cancer for eating my body.


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## Jellybeans

With that said, I do agree with most everything you said here:



DarkHoly said:


> Cuckolding another male is fun. Pure and simple. Depending on the kind of person who's doing it, the act spawns or satiates a god complex. It establishes dominance- the woman has yielded to the man of her choice, and has allowed another to usurp your territory. Pride is perhaps the most demonic of all vices.


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## Jellybeans

Well I think the WS is most definitely responsible for the act of cheating, but I also think the person they cheat with plays a hand in it, if they know the other person is partnered. Can't cheat w/o someone willing you know?

Cuts both ways.


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## Philat

DarkHoly said:


> Then continue to be with me, my good Miss. I would never imply that the woman has no say in the matter. In fact I believe that the WS is always the sole person to blame. Most people will take offense to that, but I really believe it to be so. If my woman is beautiful and fertile I can _count_ on other men trying to take her. It's up to her if they do or not. She's the one in the relationship, not them. She's the one responsible, not them. To get angry at a man for wanting my woman is to get angry at cancer for eating my body.


I am normally with you, DH, but I can tell you from personal experience that cancer survivors do motivate themselves by actually getting angry with the disease.


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## DarkHoly

Philat said:


> I am normally with you, DH, but I can tell you from personal experience that cancer survivors do motivate themselves by actually getting angry with the disease.


My mistake- I should have used a different analogy. I sometimes speak concerning things of which I am uneducated. I sincerely apologize, and I'm glad you won that battle.


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## Philat

DarkHoly said:


> My mistake- I should have used a different analogy. I sometimes speak concerning things of which I am uneducated. I sincerely apologize, and I'm glad you won that battle.


NP, I wasn't offended. My wife has beaten breast cancer twice.


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## SteveK

StayInIt said:


> What does your rabbi say?


My Rabbi is actually devastated. He was the one who picked this POS to be our tour guide.
He also said that I should throw my wife out for destroying my two boys memories of what was a great trip.

He also said this entire twin soul crap is a load of bunk and in the Jewish Tradition your first spouse is your Twin Soul.


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## Dyokemm

Steve,

Listen to your Rabbi.

Kick her out, file for D, and NEVER look back.


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## SteveK

DarkHoly said:


> Cuckolding another male is fun. Pure and simple. Depending on the kind of person who's doing it, the act spawns or satiates a god complex. It establishes dominance- the woman has yielded to the man of her choice, and has allowed another to usurp your territory. Pride is perhaps the most demonic of all vices. Two men may fight over the same woman, but a man who is filled with pride will steal your woman because she is yours. Centuries ago infidelity was punished by death, and those who engaged in it were either daring and powerful or very stupid.
> 
> Now, there are no consequences, at least none that would matter to one with such a rigid sense of self-preservation and self-gratification. So anyone can do it and get away with it. So they do.
> 
> People have no one to blame but themselves. This is one of the many results of abiding obviously immoral behavior such as wanton sex and movements such as humanism and feminism. At some point these destructive philosophies will crumble but until then many men are going to feel the sting of this error.



Our Pro Marriage marriage counselor told us that she had done her Ph.D study on the effect of feminism on marriages.
Believe me she is a modern successful independent woman, but she said the delineation of the roles of Husband and Wife is going to destroy the institution of Marriage.
She said she is not referring to woman working, men raising the kids etc, she just means at the levels of respect.
men want respect from their mates and woman want emotional support. Now woman more and more are trying to control their husband or don't respect them for who they are...hence fights, arguments and divorces.


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## SteveK

DarkHoly said:


> Then continue to be with me, my good Miss. I would never imply that the woman has no say in the matter. In fact I believe that the WS is always the sole person to blame. Most people will take offense to that, but I really believe it to be so. If my woman is beautiful and fertile I can _count_ on other men trying to take her. It's up to her if they do or not. She's the one in the relationship, not them. She's the one responsible, not them. To get angry at a man for wanting my woman is to get angry at cancer for eating my body.


For the entire 28 years of our marriage I had to deal with her being hot and hit on. She is a professional speaks in front of doctors and surgeons who respect her intelligence as well as her looks; And forget it when your wife is in a little bikini on a stage flexing, posing bending over and getting ogled you never really get used to it. It's a mixed emotion, hey I trained her, hey she won first place wow I am so proud. 
The problem is when the same thing happens on the beach or even out in public (she's wearing clothes of-course), I think after all this attention and the problems in our marriage as she just told me two seconds ago on the phone, she had no control over who she falls in love with, but it just so happened to be someone who she feels she has a deep mature connection with.


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## bandit.45

Why were you talking to her on the phone? Why are you talking to her period?


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## SteveK

Jellybeans said:


> Well I think the WS is most definitely responsible for the act of cheating, but I also think the person they cheat with plays a hand in it, if they know the other person is partnered. Can't cheat w/o someone willing you know?
> 
> Cuts both ways.


I agree with you. My wife kept saying that her POSOM, kept telling her she should leave me already.
My retort was what a real man would have done, is told her, hey I love you enough that I want to stop all communications etc until you show me proof that you have A) separated or B) divorced.
Then we can talk. ( of course it will be a cold day in hell before I ever consider or ever steal another's woman!)

But no this Pos even mailed her a burner phone.

Funny thing is she sneaking to see me behind his back.

(I am in so much pain right now it unbearable! )


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## Paladin

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



DarkHoly said:


> Then continue to be with me, my good Miss. I would never imply that the woman has no say in the matter. In fact I believe that the WS is always the sole person to blame. Most people will take offense to that, but I really believe it to be so. If my woman is beautiful and fertile I can _count_ on other men trying to take her. It's up to her if they do or not. She's the one in the relationship, not them. She's the one responsible, not them. To get angry at a man for wanting my woman is to get angry at cancer for eating my body.


Right, cause why lay blame at the feet of the POSOM? I mean he has a penis, and that obviously absolves him of any personal responsibility when social contracts are involved. Damn feminists, soon as we unlocked the door to the kitchen and bought them shoes it was all over. I guess when they wear attractive clothing or makeup they make it impossible for men to think with their brains so anything goes, kinda like saying "she was asking for it judge, totally not my fault the husband wasn't there to stop me from raping her." 

The decision to cheat is 100% on the WS, however, the problems leading up to that issue are typically 50/50. I find it hard to imagine any scenario where the POSOM didn't play an active role in getting with the WS. While I can see the merit to your argument about cuckolding being the primary motivation for these POSOMs, in reality, its mostly about getting some easy *****, thats why the advice here on TAM about making the affair uncomfortable and troublesome is so spot on. Soon as the POSOM thinks there is some difficulty involved in getting the particular easy ***** he is after, he will move on quickly.


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## SteveK

bandit.45 said:


> Why were you talking to her on the phone? Why are you talking to her period?


Here is the big problem fellas. She wants an in-house separation, and my lawyer says I can't stop her at this point. I tried to be a little intrusive to get her to pull away. I asked if they were engaged. Funny thing is the first comment out of her mouth was you are the most intrusive guy I know. You know what's so freagin nuts about that EVEN WHEN WE WERE happily MARRIED 20 years ago, SHE CONSIDERED IT INTRUSIVE IF I ASKED HER WHAT TIME SHE WOULD BE HOME! Meanwhile her POSOM TEXTED HER TWENTY TIMES WHEn SHE WAS HERE ONE NIGHT WHILE I WAS AWAY( my son said he looked at her phone and there were at least twenty texts checking on her).

It's hard to not communicate, she has one of my cars and it was at the shop. I called the deal or and asked them to call me, but they called her.

Where I am freaking out is I was getting insanely jealous inside hearing her talk about her possibly staying with this dolt in a hotel until mid April before he leaves. She then said if she does not tKe her apartment she's going to have to split the bill.....with what my money!

Oh I can't cut up the accounts and cards until we meet with the attorneys tomorrow.


I am going to switch over to my other thread for updates on my saga. But feel free to reply here for those I have written.


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## StayInIt

Dyokemm said:


> Steve,
> 
> Listen to your Rabbi.
> 
> Kick her out, file for D, and NEVER look back.



:iagree:

Please listen to your rabbi. I am so, so sorry for this.


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## SteveK

Paladin said:


> Right, cause why lay blame at the feet of the POSOM? I mean he has a penis, and that obviously absolves him of any personal responsibility when social contracts are involved. Damn feminists, soon as we unlocked the door to the kitchen and bought them shoes it was all over. I guess when they wear attractive clothing or makeup they make it impossible for men to think with their brains so anything goes, kinda like saying "she was asking for it judge, totally not my fault the husband wasn't there to stop me from raping her."
> 
> The decision to cheat is 100% on the WS, however, the problems leading up to that issue are typically 50/50. I find it hard to imagine any scenario where the POSOM didn't play an active role in getting with the WS. While I can see the merit to your argument about cuckolding being the primary motivation for these POSOMs, in reality, its mostly about getting some easy *****, thats why the advice here on TAM about making the affair uncomfortable and troublesome is so spot on. Soon as the POSOM thinks there is some difficulty involved in getting the particular easy ***** he is after, he will move on quickly.


My wife OM claims that he initiated it, I remember when it happened. He and his wife were visiting us a few year back. When we dropped them at the airport I now remember he ran back to the car and grabbed my wife and hugged her, I saw them stare into each other's eyes and nod heads...it made a chill run down my neck. Thing is my wife takes no blame for anything.


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## alexm

Jellybeans said:


> But can a mate really be "taken?" when we talk about humans? There is free will.





Jellybeans said:


> Women can't be stolen from a man. Unless you know, they are kidnapped or murdered.


Not stealing in the true sense of the word. But yes, they (and us men) can be "stolen".

In the non-human animal world, the female usually selects the male who is the strongest/prettiest/sings the loudest, etc. In humans, it's much the same.

Now, if after marrying the most viable man around and being with him for a few years, things can and do change. We see a lot of that here. "My husband/wife no longer blah blah blah" 

So somebody else comes along who offers this, and then there's your temptation. Yes, it is stealing, but not in the caveman drag-the-woman-away-by-her-hair type.

Joe Blow at work hears from Jane Doe that her husband no longer pays attention to her. Joe Blow springs into action with a shoulder to cry on and an agenda. It's up to Jane Doe from that point on. Joe Blow sees a weakness in his fellow male, and offers this to Jane Doe. No different than the pea**** showing off his bigger, bolder feathers in front of the other females who may or many not have already partnered up.

It's not a male/female thing, don't mistake it for that. It's really just animal instincts at work. Same is true in reverse, women stealing another woman's man.

We're all animals. Some of just have just evolved a little further


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## Paladin

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



SteveK said:


> My wife OM claims that he initiated it, I remember when it happened. He and his wife were visiting us a few year back. When we dropped them at the airport I now remember he ran back to the car and grabbed my wife and hugged her, I saw them stare into each other's eyes and nod heads...it made a chill run down my neck. Thing is my wife takes no blame for anything.


Not taking ownership of her actions means she is not remorseful, im sorry you find yourself in this situation. True remorse is an absolute must for any kind of reconciliation to have a chance. I can see her saying the OM initiated and pursued her, but unless she was raped, she made a conscious decision to do whatever it is they did together. (Sorry did not read your full story)


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## Redpill

A lot of people get off on the trill of having an affair while married, or having one with a married person. It's forbidden, not something you're supposed to do - it's exciting. 

It all comes down to the women though, all they have to do is say no and lots of them don't. 

Why? Because "HE MADE FEEL SPEECIALLZ" or "HE UNDERSTANDS ME!". Women fail to realize that most men don't want them. They want to enjoy banging you for 5 mins, then go on with their lives. You think they want to provide for your rugrats, or you for that matter? 

But for women, it's all bout the "feelings"; never thinking about long term consequences.


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## Horizon

Paladin said:


> Right, cause why lay blame at the feet of the POSOM? I mean he has a penis, and that obviously absolves him of any personal responsibility when social contracts are involved. Damn feminists, soon as we unlocked the door to the kitchen and bought them shoes it was all over. I guess when they wear attractive clothing or makeup they make it impossible for men to think with their brains so anything goes, kinda like saying "she was asking for it judge, totally not my fault the husband wasn't there to stop me from raping her."
> 
> The decision to cheat is 100% on the WS, however, the problems leading up to that issue are typically 50/50. I find it hard to imagine any scenario where the POSOM didn't play an active role in getting with the WS. While I can see the merit to your argument about cuckolding being the primary motivation for these POSOMs, in reality, its mostly about getting some easy *****, thats why the advice here on TAM about making the affair uncomfortable and troublesome is so spot on. Soon as the POSOM thinks there is some difficulty involved in getting the particular easy ***** he is after, he will move on quickly.


Yep, the POSE who targeted my WS didn't know me from a bar of soap. That's not to say that these cowards don't get some level of personal satisfaction; another notch on the holster. Cuckolded? Well, that's what it amounted to. A terrible humiliating word but just a word. I agree, it's just an easy chop. My WS was smothering him with flattery & desire, he just talked about sex acts and occasionally threw out a compliment. 

I VAR'd a conversation where my WS confessed to her lifelong GF's. She said the POSE peppered her with messages - "A lot of messages" she said. But she also described him as "attractive". She minimised to her GF's big time, described it is as disgusting and then said "....well it wasn't disgusting....". Mainly she downplayed her responsibility and her enjoyment but the communication proved otherwise.

The truth is they lie and lie and lie. I would have loved to admonish her GF's for their lack of condemnation but that's the way of the world - and this group of girls are pretty straight. Just went a bit silent and then moved on to the next topic.


----------



## Iver

Steve,

Have you seen your doctor? I think a visit is in order - anxiety meds exist for a reason and I'm thinking you have a darn good reason going on here. 

Also your Rabbi - can he contact the company the POS works for and let them know this situation is not acceptable? 

I don't know what kind of network Rabbi's have but maybe this company can be blacklisted by the community?


----------



## love=pain

Haven't read all the threads but turn it around

If a man that chases a married woman is so bad what does that make a married woman that cheats?

If the man is single then he is a pig, if married then he is no better than she is.

So what does that make her? confused, weak, naive

I have been nicer to my Ws and willing to try to forgive because I love her but really if he is a piece of crap that I want to break into little bits well.

WS gets a kindness because of the relationship but she is no better


----------



## nuclearnightmare

SteveK said:


> So here's my question. Why would a beautiful woman with a family and a financially secure life date a guy who's wife claims he always try's to start relationships with married woman.
> 
> The other part is my wife for 25 years ripped into woman who had affairs, she also said men who chase married woman are the scum of the earth. But in her case where she believed she gave him the "look" it was ok to have an affair, and then even after he admitted it was he who started it, she believes that he is a better, deeper, has more soul, sweeter and kinder man than me.


Steve:
part of your post asks not about the OM but about your wife. that's the part I'd like to take a shot at answering. Have not yet read ahead on this thread, but let's see how close I come, right off the bat:

because your wife is a hypocrite; though I'd bet it's worse than that. because your wife is, at the fundamental level, a fraud.


----------



## SteveK

My thread is titled
WIFE OF 28 YEARS LEFT ME FOR A TOUR GUIDE


----------



## SteveK

Iver said:


> Steve,
> 
> Have you seen your doctor? I think a visit is in order - anxiety meds exist for a reason and I'm thinking you have a darn good reason going on here.
> 
> Also your Rabbi - can he contact the company the POS works for and let them know this situation is not acceptable?
> 
> I don't know what kind of network Rabbi's have but maybe this company can be blacklisted by the community?


I did start taking some anxiety meds more because I was getting obsessed. The problem is after Dday2 in November when she claimed it was to dump him, my doc offered me these meds. I had taken them about six years earlier in a higher dose when my son was having issues. The problem was, the effected me where it took me a long time to orgasm, so my wife this time discouraged me from taking them. Funny thing I was the boy toy remember . Now I feel had I took them maybe she would not have left me on Dd3 in February and now it's been no sex since Feb 9. 


AND NO WIFE!


Also we did send a letter to the tour company and they fired him, but recently rehired him, probably because my POSW called them on his behalf.
Funny thing is he runs Birthrite tours so young kids are looking up to this guy as a great mentor! I wonder how many of these kids come from broken homes and would respect him.


----------



## Iver

Well it's one thing if you and your wife are calling but I'm thinking your Rabbi can put a lot of hurt on them if he wanted - the POS gets fired or that company gets blackballed.

What your wife wants re your medications should have no, zero, zilch bearing on what you do. 

See your doctor as soon as possible.


----------



## SteveK

Iver said:


> Well it's one thing if you and your wife are calling but I'm thinking your Rabbi can put a lot of hurt on them if he wanted - the POS gets fired or that company gets blackballed.
> 
> What your wife wants re your medications should have no, zero, zilch bearing on what you do.
> 
> See your doctor as soon as possible.


I am taking them now, what she wants does not matter, she's not sleeping with me.


----------



## bandit.45

SteveK said:


> I did start taking some anxiety meds more because I was getting obsessed. The problem is after Dday2 in November when she claimed it was to dump him, my doc offered me these meds. I had taken them about six years earlier in a higher dose when my son was having issues. The problem was, the effected me where it took me a long time to orgasm, so my wife this time discouraged me from taking them. Funny thing I was the boy toy remember . Now I feel had I took them maybe she would not have left me on Dd3 in February and now it's been no sex since Feb 9.
> 
> 
> AND NO WIFE!
> 
> 
> Also we did send a letter to the tour company and they fired him, but recently rehired him, probably because my POSW called them on his behalf.
> Funny thing is he runs Birthrite tours so young kids are looking up to this guy as a great mentor! I wonder how many of these kids come from broken homes and would respect him.


Steve, do you have the web link to this guy's tour service? I would be more than happy to make a post on their comments section about how I heard one of their tour guides was having an affair with an American woman and trying to steal her from her husband. 

There are many hear on TAM with time on our hands who would love to help you out in that regard. Lets hit this SOB in his pocketbook. Destroy his rep.


----------



## SteveK

So I was on the phone with my WAW. It was about a car we own.
She said she wants an in home separation.

I said it will only work if you and your buddy are not engaged. She got really quiet and said cut it out, I said well it's like two high school kids that get pre-engaged ( she made fun of her own son when he got pre-engaged last year) 

Her retort: god you are the most intrusive man I know.

I did get angry at myself, I don't want her to think I care, but would you call that question intrusive.

Her POS therapist that she was seeing said I was intrusive because I used to call her at work. My wife has a knack for grabbing onto a saying or comment and using it until it dies a slow death...


----------



## Horizon

They are all cheater tactics Steve. She's dueling with you and the whole time treating you like sh!t. She doesn't want you Steve and she doesn't deserve you. You know what to do Steve.


----------



## staarz21

SteveK said:


> So I was on the phone with my WAW. It was about a car we own.
> She said she wants an in home separation.
> 
> I said it will only work if you and your buddy are not engaged. She got really quiet and said cut it out, I said well it's like two high school kids that get pre-engaged ( she made fun of her own son when he got pre-engaged last year)
> ..


Don't do the In home separation. It will kill you. If she wants it, she can leave that guy, like you said. Who cares what she wants? She needs to deal with the consequences of her actions and you need to stay firm on that.


----------



## arbitrator

*Even though my skanky XW's "Li'l Lord Lardass" has already packed his bags and headed out west, the thought did occur to me to send him an email to inform him that I had just been told that I had a case of terminal "crotch-rot" that I had summarily contracted some 4 years ago and that my skanky XW(his GF) likely had it too!

Bet that might get his jug a$$ out of his easy chair!*


----------



## Iver

staarz21 said:


> Don't do the In home separation. It will kill you. If she wants it, she can leave that guy, like you said. Who cares what she wants? She needs to deal with the consequences of her actions and you need to stay firm on that.


I don't think he has any choice if that's what she wants.

Consult with your lawyer to see what options may exist...


----------



## distraughtfromtexas

Your situation sounds awful and I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hate to be the annoying one who says this, but let's not gender discriminate here. I think people forget women are JUST as bad, seeing married men as a challenge, especially if they have kids. They love it. Just remember men and women are no different in this aspect. What kind of PERSON wants anything to do with someone who is married? An individual with no class and no morals. You are better than this lowlife and you will find someone so much better than your cheating wife. You will be able to tell her where to shove it when she comes running back down the road.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SteveK

distraughtfromtexas said:


> Your situation sounds awful and I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hate to be the annoying one who says this, but let's not gender discriminate here. I think people forget women are JUST as bad, seeing married men as a challenge, especially if they have kids. They love it. Just remember men and women are no different in this aspect. What kind of PERSON wants anything to do with someone who is married? An individual with no class and no morals. You are better than this lowlife and you will find someone so much better than your cheating wife. You will be able to tell her where to shove it when she comes running back down the road.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you...
My wife forgets that she Fell in love with me at first site 32 years ago. Except for less hair and a few stress lines I pretty much look the same.

She keeps calling because we are trying to work with my sons school since he's heading towards an Ivy League education. Sad thing is she plans on moving to Israel right after he leaves for college! 

She also always cried to my sons about how she was going to be the Nana to their children like her mother would have been had she not died so young of Breast Ca. Well what type of nana can she be 6,0000 miles away and estranged from her eldest son who is devastated by what she did the year he got engaged and graduates with his BA.

I am so sad for my boys!


----------



## SteveK

Iver said:


> I don't think he has any choice if that's what she wants.
> 
> Consult with your lawyer to see what options may exist...


You are correct, but she is so whipped by her POS that he is going to explode when he finds out that...SHE ASKED FOR THE IN HOME....IT WAS HER IDEA, hence why I am not fighting it. You see he keeps using an angle that I am going to hurt or kill her if we are alone...I believe he has some really deep problems that he is hiding. I just want to bring those out...I almost hope he throws a fit or takes a swing at her....don't worry ladies she will be fine ....black belted in Krav Maga...she will tear his one nut right off....that's right fellas I hear Hezbollah blew off the other one!


----------



## Paladin

Im not 100% sure why she thinks its ok in any way shape or form to continue talking to the POSOM while asking you for anything? In my situation I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I could not continue being her husband while she continued her A. I made that very clear to her as I got my feet back under me after the initial shock wore off. It was hard, but I had to be prepared to walk away and D in order to end the toxic limbo of her A. She ended up staying with her mom and dad (after I exposed) for a few weeks until she finally committed to NC and we could actually do meaningful work on assessing the damage, mourning the previous incarnation of our relationship, and starting the rebuilding process.

The way you describe the situation, she wants to live under the same roof as you and continue having her affair. That's totally unacceptable and will be really harmful to your efforts at healing/recovery. She can put the POSOM on hold for a few months while you get the Divorce process started. POSOMs **** isn't an oxygen tube or life support, she can live without it while she is your wife on paper.


----------



## SteveK

staarz21 said:


> Don't do the In home separation. It will kill you. If she wants it, she can leave that guy, like you said. Who cares what she wants? She needs to deal with the consequences of her actions and you need to stay firm on that.


Right now she will never leave this dolt. He has gotten to her very core, he is needy and nurturing at the same time. He acts like a child while teaching her about her culture. She has become so Hung up in her new found connection to Israel and Judaism she is calling it her rebirth. There was a book written many years ago called " waking up a Jew" about reminding your self, I swear he must have wrote it. It's funny how they are using there rebound faith as a way of justifying their disgusting immature behavior.


----------



## SteveK

Paladin said:


> Im not 100% sure why she thinks its ok in any way shape or form to continue talking to the POSOM while asking you for anything? In my situation I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I could not continue being her husband while she continued her A. I made that very clear to her as I got my feet back under me after the initial shock wore off. It was hard, but I had to be prepared to walk away and D in order to end the toxic limbo of her A. She ended up staying with her mom and dad (after I exposed) for a few weeks until she finally committed to NC and we could actually do meaningful work on assessing the damage, mourning the previous incarnation of our relationship, and starting the rebuilding process.
> 
> The way you describe the situation, she wants to live under the same roof as you and continue having her affair. That's totally unacceptable and will be really harmful to your efforts at healing/recovery. She can put the POSOM on hold for a few months while you get the Divorce process started. POSOMs **** isn't an oxygen tube or life support, she can live without it while she is your wife on paper.


I agree with you! Three times she broke it off and restarted it. A collegue of mine who is a professional bereavement coach told me that he believes the POS USED NLP on her and continues to do so.

She feels that she has every right to do what she wants. Our entire marriage if I ever gave her advice or Anything her first comment was " your not the boss of me" but truth be told, if this guy says jump she says how high and how much higher ! I am telling you she is in denial of this entire Daddy thing she is in...

She's very mentally I'll right now, but will not admit it, and the more time she is with her toxic drug addicted social worker friend and his friends the more he gets his grip on her.


----------



## MattMatt

Mrs. John Adams said:


> an arsehole


You spell that with an "r". I like that!:smthumbup:


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## manfromlamancha

MattMatt said:


> You spell that with an "r". I like that!:smthumbup:


Yes, me too!


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## Dyokemm

Steve,

For your OWN mental and spiritual health....LET HER GO COMPLETELY!

Stop trying to figure out the whys and the future possibilities.

Kick her out IMMEDIATELY and do not talk to her about anything but D proceedings and necessary kid stuff.

You are a better man that this....why would you even want such a faithless and worthless woman ever again anyway?

She is a traitor to everything you and her built over your lives, from your kids to your daily lives and future plans.

Give her the metaphorical 'sentence' in terms of your relationship that goes with the crime of treason...kill any connection to her permanently and forever.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Steve, your POSOM is the complete nightmare of OMs!

Unattractive, without morals whatsoever, nothing to lose, everything to gain, very possibly NLP proficient (I would believe this based on where he is from), and from the "holy" land with a message for her! Wow!

Now I completely agree with the advice given by Dyokemm in that you really need to work on yourself and be ready and more than willing to lose her! Under a spell, mentally ill, she still sounds like a piece of work!

Even if you want to fight for her she has to fall, hit rock bottom and want to come to you fully remorseful.

So what you need to do is protect you and yours, while hitting him/them where it hurts most.

Lawyer up - protect wealth, assets etc - this matters to the POSOM more than anything else.

Report him far and wide - employers, customers, friends and family - make access to US citizenship as difficult as possible - this too matters to him. Blow up the affair by exposing.

Protect kids in terms of custody - demonstrate abandonment, mental instability and corruptive influence on kids by POSOM.

Do the 180 with her - only communicate on matters pertaining to exchanging kids. Work on yourself physically and mentally. Let everyone see a better you.

Divorce & dump her ASAP.

This way you possibly hit him where it hurts, make her realise what she is doing, but most of all heal and better yourself to go forward.


----------



## SteveK

Actually leaving for first meeting with lawyer now.

I feel like I am going to puke.

I never thought this day would come.

We were told by one of my sons therapists years ago that there was a troublesome dynamic in our marriage, and we both just ignored it.

I hope I can drive...I feel a Panic attack comming on...

My IC says that I cant seem to differentiate love from fear...Inother words do I love her or Fear Her...It is heart wrenching to decide.


----------



## manfromlamancha

You fear taking this first very important step - we are all here to catch you so fear not.


----------



## Jung_admirer

ThePheonix said:


> Married men chase married woman because they want a partner that has as much to lose as they do. Single men chase married woman because they are cheap dates, with little guesswork as to what to expect from the relationship. (a shorter distance to the bedroom)
> What type man does it? Out of 10 guys, pick any 7 or 8 that would do it if the circumstances presented itself. And it's ego building to feel she is willing to risk everything to be with you.
> When I was doing a little escorting, I believed I was providing a service. She needs someone to make her feel special and the most desirable and interesting woman in the room and I enjoyed doing that.


Insightful :iagree:

I have a single male friend that chases married women because he is broken. He was egregiously betrayed early in life and has no trust in himself or others. (the James Bond character is written this way) Bedding married women gives him all the power ... he can expose them at any time. I have spent 25 yrs trying to get him to consider IC (without success). He would never consider a relationship with any of these women because he knows from the start they are betrayers. There is safety in that knowledge from his perspective.


----------



## xakulax

I ported this in a another thread titled player vs husbands but I think it also apply here.



*A player can only play if the wife allow it its that simple*. If she wants to cheat she will cheat and it dose not matter if its a player,coworker, best friend or the mailman if your spouse is incline to cheat then they will cheat its as simple and horrible as that.


Many men think this way because to erase to hate OM and elevate him to some kind of Casanova status rather then questioning the reasoning and thinking of there SO....


----------



## arbitrator

Jung_admirer said:


> Insightful :iagree:
> 
> I have a single male friend that chases married women because he is broken. He was egregiously betrayed early in life and has no trust in himself or others. (the James Bond character is written this way) Bedding married women gives him all the power ... he can expose them at any time. I have spent 25 yrs trying to get him to consider IC (without success). He would never consider a relationship with any of these women because he knows from the start they are betrayers. There is safety in that knowledge from his perspective.


*He also seems to have way too little regard or respect for his own well-being in his lurid avocation of chasing married women. After all, just one lecherous episode gone-wrong, affecting only one jilted husband could well place him within the dark confines of a body bag!*


----------



## sandc

No one can make your wife have sex with them. No one can trick her, manipulate her into having sex with them. UNLESS she wants to. 

The bottom line is people cheat because they want to.


----------



## Married but Happy

Jung_admirer said:


> I have a single male friend that chases married women because he is broken. He was egregiously betrayed early in life and has no trust in himself or others. (the James Bond character is written this way) Bedding married women gives him all the power ... he can expose them at any time. I have spent 25 yrs trying to get him to consider IC (without success). He would never consider a relationship with any of these women because he knows from the start they are betrayers. There is safety in that knowledge from his perspective.


Interesting perspective, and it strikes me as true. It's also true that over 90% of women having affairs never get caught, so there is little risk there, and in most cases when discovered, there is still very, very little risk the the man. He has almost all of the advantages, and few - if any - of the disadvantages of marriage. He may even achieve reproductive success without the burdens and responsibilities.


----------



## sandc

Married but Happy said:


> Interesting perspective, and it strikes me as true. It's also true that over 90% of women having affairs never get caught, so there is little risk there, and in most cases when discovered, there is still very, very little risk the the man. He has almost all of the advantages, and few - if any - of the disadvantages of marriage. He may even achieve reproductive success without the burdens and responsibilities.


True but none of the rewards either.


----------



## xakulax

Married but Happy said:


> Interesting perspective, and it strikes me as true. It's also true that over 90% of women having affairs never get caught, so there is little risk there, and in most cases when discovered, there is still very, very little risk the the man. He has almost all of the advantages, and few - if any - of the disadvantages of marriage. He may even achieve reproductive success without the burdens and responsibilities.



Sorry but I have to disagree with that. One of the biggest rewards of a relationship is emotional security that's the reason why so many WS don't simply divorce there spouses before starting the affair they want to maintain that level of emotional security there marriage provides wile at the same time have there beast in the bed room sort of speak.

Whats sad to me is that most cheaters don't understand that you can have emotional security and beast in the bed room within the marriage..but maybe that's where the Madonna [email protected]$R complex comes in to play. 


The mind of a cheaters is strange.


----------



## Married but Happy

xakulax said:


> Sorry but I have to disagree with that. One of the biggest rewards of a relationship is emotional security that's the reason why so many WS don't simply divorce there spouses before starting the affair they want to maintain that level of emotional security there marriage provides wile at the same time have there beast in the bed room sort of speak.





> True but none of the rewards either.


I agree with both of you, if we're talking about ordinary people. However, a man who would engage in poaching another's wife may not be psychologically equipped to appreciate those rewards. He may be getting _exactly_ what he wants and needs.


----------



## SteveK

Married but Happy said:


> I agree with both of you, if we're talking about ordinary people. However, a man who would engage in poaching another's wife may not be psychologically equipped to appreciate those rewards. He may be getting _exactly_ what he wants and needs.


This case with me is a little different. This guy courted my wife as soon as he realized she was unhappy in our marriage. We had a turmoiltuos dance for many years emotionally abusing each other.
The thing is he has targeted woman just like my wife for years, but most of them backed off. Sometimes it was because of their kids, other times they saw the type of guy he was.

The difference is my wife is pretty hot for a 50 year old and she was emotionally weak and I did not see the signs.
He also played on this new found desire she had to reconnect with her Jewish roots.

This pro had lost so many times that he honed his game and my wife bit. I think also the fact that I was the only guy she ever had sex with she wanted to explore. Meanwhile we had an amazing amazing physical relationship. Because of his health issues the physical is only a small part.

The thing is as much as she says her and I are more like friends, if I hit the right button or say the right think she wells up in her eyes and tries to stop herself from crying.

I am telling you by letting her be with him for now, and giving her space she is going to implode as will this entire affair.

Now she may not come back to me, but I can tell you she will get rid of him and I think this time he might just have a stroke :rofl:


----------



## WhiteRaven

What type of man chases married woman?

*One with a deathwish.*


----------



## xakulax

WhiteRaven said:


> What type of man chases married woman?
> 
> *One with a deathwish.*



I have to agree with this even though I know your kinda joking the risk reward ratio is way to unbalanced.


*Reward* no burdens and or responsibilities,no strings attached sex ,ego boost.


*Risk* destroying a marriage and family,shame and humiliation, have the stigma of being a home wrecker, STD's and last but definitely not lest the possibility of retaliation in the from of financial or physical violence how many time have we heard about OM/OW being killed by the BS.


The risk simply doses not mach the reward yet people still cheat 


like I said before the mind of a cheaters is strange.


----------



## WhiteRaven

xakulax said:


> I have to agree with this even though I know your kinda joking the risk reward ratio is way to unbalanced.
> 
> 
> *Reward* no burdens and or responsibilities,no strings attached sex ,ego boost.
> 
> 
> *Risk* destroying a marriage and family,shame and humiliation, have the stigma of being a home wrecker, STD's and last but definitely not lest the possibility of retaliation in the from of financial or physical violence how many time have we heard about OM/OW being killed by the BS.
> 
> 
> The risk simply doses not mach the reward yet people still cheat
> 
> 
> like I said before the mind of a cheaters is strange.


I wasn't joking.  

I would have killed the OM if my head didn't prevail. Instead I chose to bang his wife for a week after my D, record it all and showed it to the OM in his office carpark. He fainted.:rofl:

Am I evil? Call up and ask my dad. His cell no is 666.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

> What type of man chases married woman?


Better question.... Does it matter?


----------



## xakulax

WhiteRaven said:


> I wasn't joking.
> 
> I would have killed the OM if my head didn't prevail. *Instead I chose to bang his wife for a week after my D, record it all and showed it to the OM in his office carpark. He fainted*.:rofl:
> 
> Am I evil? Call up and ask my dad. His cell no is 666.



Like a boss


----------



## SteveK

Paladin said:


> Im not 100% sure why she thinks its ok in any way shape or form to continue talking to the POSOM while asking you for anything? In my situation I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I could not continue being her husband while she continued her A. I made that very clear to her as I got my feet back under me after the initial shock wore off. It was hard, but I had to be prepared to walk away and D in order to end the toxic limbo of her A. She ended up staying with her mom and dad (after I exposed) for a few weeks until she finally committed to NC and we could actually do meaningful work on assessing the damage, mourning the previous incarnation of our relationship, and starting the rebuilding process.
> 
> The way you describe the situation, she wants to live under the same roof as you and continue having her affair. That's totally unacceptable and will be really harmful to your efforts at healing/recovery. She can put the POSOM on hold for a few months while you get the Divorce process started. POSOMs **** isn't an oxygen tube or life support, she can live without it while she is your wife on paper.


Ok so now she plans on moving back home in mid April when he goes home. She says she wants to give it a try . We did meet with Attorneys today it was her idea but I think the reality hit her. She was crying when we left. I think she's broken . She is weighing me and our past versus what POS is calling her rebirth. He actually kept texting her while we were with the Attorneys. She actually showed me. What a freaking freak she thinks they are out of love and not for control. She just does not get how manipulative and controlling he is she thinks it is all about love.
Well I am going to go dark on her except for my son and the D until mid April when POSOM leaves.
Fellas I am telling you I never wanted t to see a man die a horrible death So badly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WhiteRaven

xakulax said:


> Like a boss


Thanks. 

The civilized part of me kept saying what I was doing is despicable. The civilized Raven was cuckolded, manipulated, lied to, belittled. It needed to go - more than my xWW. What am I left with now? The part that is inherently bad. That's all I have now.


----------



## PBear

So she wants to move out and move in on a whim, depending on whether her boyfriend is in town? And your lawyer can't give you a better option than smiling and telling her "sure, honey"? Methinks you should have shopped for a more shark-like lawyer...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## davecarter

Yeah, I'm going to chip-in here...when I first found out who my wife was seeing (mere days after we separated), I went ballistic: _"WTF?!? That guy is totally punching above his weight with my wife"_

I'm a big 'thinker' and people say I over-analyze stuff, so, I realized what he was like, what he had/bought to the table (and to be fair, he did bring a bit)....and now I think, by my own admission, for a few years, I really didn't do then 'good husband' stuff - so I quit acting like she was always my 'Princess'.

I think, as men/husbands, its just natural: we're conditioned to think wife not ever get any other c0ck, but they do.
It's not new. it's always been that way and, now, it's even more prevalent.

I'm not excusing anyone, but that's the bottom line in this day and age.


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

I'm just going to anecdotally answer the original question.

Her only long-term affair partner (who she often called a POS and an ahole) based on his messages and e-mails, only cared about sex. He called her his sex toy and he bragged about his other sex toys (married woman he was cheating with). Made weird claims about how he was helping our marriage and she believed it and started echoing it back. She would tell her friends that he was helping our marriage by helping her understand what she, you know, needs. Gave her a shoulder to cry on and over time she took all of our problems to him where they were amplified and never solved because I never heard about them. She actually started taking made up problems (clearly made up, like I'm physically abusive or raped her) to him to get more sympathy. His reactions didn't seem very sympathetic to me but I guess she got something from it.

That emotional distancing, I think at least, is what truly destroyed our marriage. She kept pulling away further and further and bringing all of her sexual and emotional energy into her fantasy relationship until there was nothing left in ours.

Then after I left her the last e-mail conversation I had access to between them was her trying to start an actual relationship with him and him telling her to never speak to him again. And he told her that our marriage ending was clearly her fault. Guess it's not fun anymore once the woman is available.

I've over-analyzed this to death and reached the conclusion that I will never understand so that's what I'm working on accepting.


----------



## ThePheonix

WhiteRaven said:


> Thanks.
> 
> The civilized part of me kept saying what I was doing is despicable. The civilized Raven was cuckolded, manipulated, lied to, belittled. It needed to go - more than my xWW. What am I left with now? The part that is inherently bad. That's all I have now.


You're underestimating yourself Dawg. Its not what you lost. Its what you gained. You are no longer cuckolded, manipulated, lied to, and belittled. Your freedom from that environment has to play in there somewhere. The landing may have been less than you wanted, but you walk away from the crash and still your on your feet my man. Like a buddy of mine said, " last year at this time I wanted to kill the SOB she ran off with. Now I'd like to shake his hand and thank him".


----------



## WhiteRaven

ThePheonix said:


> You're underestimating yourself Dawg. Its not what you lost. Its what you gained. You are no longer cuckolded, manipulated, lied to, and belittled. Your freedom from that environment has to play in there somewhere. The landing may have been less than you wanted, but you walk away from the crash and still your on your feet my man. Like a buddy of mine said, " *last year at this time I wanted to kill the SOB she ran off with. Now I'd like to shake his hand and thank him"*.


Your buddy is a wise man. 

I'm picking up the pieces. Few days are bad, like today. I lost a slvty xWW, gained a [email protected] attitude. What's not to love?:smthumbup:


----------



## SteveK

rustytheboyrobot said:


> I'm just going to anecdotally answer the original question.
> 
> Her only long-term affair partner (who she often called a POS and an ahole) based on his messages and e-mails, only cared about sex. He called her his sex toy and he bragged about his other sex toys (married woman he was cheating with). Made weird claims about how he was helping our marriage and she believed it and started echoing it back. She would tell her friends that he was helping our marriage by helping her understand what she, you know, needs. Gave her a shoulder to cry on and over time she took all of our problems to him where they were amplified and never solved because I never heard about them. She actually started taking made up problems (clearly made up, like I'm physically abusive or raped her) to him to get more sympathy. His reactions didn't seem very sympathetic to me but I guess she got something from it.
> 
> That emotional distancing, I think at least, is what truly destroyed our marriage. She kept pulling away further and further and bringing all of her sexual and emotional energy into her fantasy relationship until there was nothing left in ours.
> 
> Then after I left her the last e-mail conversation I had access to between them was her trying to start an actual relationship with him and him telling her to never speak to him again. And he told her that our marriage ending was clearly her fault. Guess it's not fun anymore once the woman is available.
> 
> I've over-analyzed this to death and reached the conclusion that I will never understand so that's what I'm working on accepting.


Hey Rusty:
Ours story was similar but different in so many ways.
We had an amazing sex life, when I look back,it was a little to amazing. I was exhausted all the time and she loved to drink. You know..

Anyway what happened was the emotional toll. We had a kid with anxiety a lot of bills type A personalities, emotional and verbal abuse two ways...we almost became brother and sister except for the sex. The thing that kills me is that as long as we were intimate she had no intention of getting to the next level with him.. When I caught her on that last night in February and she ran off with the POS BECAUSE HE TOLD HER I WOULD MURDER HER that is when I believe it crossed the line.
But for starters her EA started because she was telling him every tiny little detail of our 32 years of knowing each other..down to our parents, siblings etc.and what do predators do they store this in a bank and flip it around.

Then he started the entire fantasy thing ( read more at Wife of 28 Years).

So she tells me that she is in love with me but it's different with him it's at a deeper emotional level etc..

He even told her at one point that I was a sexual deviant and pervert because of the sex life we had. Yeah well guess what buddy the night before she ran I did not tie myself to the bed...I did not make her play cowgirl.....I was actually sleeping when she tied me up! Jerko

Oh by then though he had become her emotional drug, no matter what I did no matter what I tried..she had this craving this alien in her brain convincing her that she had to talk to him!

I hope,he rots in hell.


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## bandit.45

He captured her mind and heart but you still had her vag. Interesting. Usually it is the other way around.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

Well if she was used to hot sex with you and not getting it from Mr Wet Noodle, then don't expect it to last long. If she is as fit as you say she is she won't put up with a sexless relationship from him. That doesn't mean she will want you back though. That's why you need to stop engaging with her and start disengaging from her completely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator

bandit.45 said:


> He captured her mind and heart but you still had her vag. Interesting. Usually it is the other way around.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*But when her heart and mind are summarily swept away, then the vag, all too often, is the very next to go!

And if you don't believe me, try asking my rich, skanky, XW!*


----------



## nuclearnightmare

SteveK said:


> This case with me is a little different. This guy courted my wife as soon as he realized she was unhappy in our marriage. We had a turmoiltuos dance for many years emotionally abusing each other.
> The thing is he has targeted woman just like my wife for years, but most of them backed off. Sometimes it was because of their kids, other times they saw the type of guy he was.
> 
> The difference is my wife is pretty hot for a 50 year old and she was emotionally weak and I did not see the signs.
> He also played on this new found desire she had to reconnect with her Jewish roots.
> 
> This pro had lost so many times that he honed his game and my wife bit. I think also the fact that I was the only guy she ever had sex with she wanted to explore. Meanwhile we had an amazing amazing physical relationship. Because of his health issues the physical is only a small part.
> 
> The thing is as much as she says her and I are more like friends, if I hit the right button or say the right think she wells up in her eyes and tries to stop herself from crying.
> 
> I am telling you by letting her be with him for now, and giving her space she is going to implode as will this entire affair.
> 
> Now she may not come back to me, but I can tell you she will get rid of him and I think this time he might just have a stroke :rofl:


I dont think your wife has emotional problems, as much as she has character problems. some women, and some men, are just not able to love another person - regardless of how much they might protest to the contrary. The drama and emotions they display to the outside world can be quite convincing, making it seem as if they are just as human as anyone else. But those close to them eventually learn of how unalterably rotten they are on the inside. 
but that truth is so shocking to their spouse or family that a desparate attempt is then made to fit all the nasty behavior into a theory that the person is basically good but just did a few bad things. soon or later that theory falls apart, but not until the victims of the story are hurt even worse. Your wife sounds an awful lot like this kind of person. If so she is just not marriage material. not for you, not for anyone. get rid of her in the best way feasible.


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## Acabado

SteveK said:


> Ok so now she plans on moving back home in mid April when he goes home. She says she wants to give it a try .


Unacceptable!!! The nerve!!. So... she's going to keep fooling around... just until he go back to his country... and then and only then, her doormat of a husband, who's patiently waiting for her to get this out of her chest will embrace her back?
Of course, she won't gog NC by then, and OM often travles here, right?
Tell her to put her generous offer where the sun doesn't shine. FILE. NOW!!!
Tell her she doesn't need to come back, she's totaly free.
Dark on her, hard 180, doesn't engage. Get her blinsided, file NOW. Serve her at the motel! Create an scene between them there!!


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## sandc

Yeah, I'd say file now or else Google "hotwife lifestyle" and welcome her home.

Personally I'd file.


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## Paladin

SteveK said:


> Ok so now she plans on moving back home in mid April when he goes home. She says she wants to give it a try . We did meet with Attorneys today it was her idea but I think the reality hit her. She was crying when we left. I think she's broken . She is weighing me and our past versus what POS is calling her rebirth. He actually kept texting her while we were with the Attorneys. She actually showed me. What a freaking freak she thinks they are out of love and not for control. She just does not get how manipulative and controlling he is she thinks it is all about love.
> Well I am going to go dark on her except for my son and the D until mid April when POSOM leaves.
> Fellas I am telling you I never wanted t to see a man die a horrible death So badly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What complete and utter compartmentalization, its really freaking scary when you consider what the human mind is capable of scripting itself to believe. You've heard from some of the more vocal and straight forward voices here in CWI, I am usually in favor of giving R a chance if conditions are right, but its really difficult to do that in this case.

You really are facing a critical moment in this mess. You can assert yourself now, with the full knowledge that things may not work out and you will have to find happiness elsewhere, or as others have stated, accept the status quo and forever occupy the "plan b," "fallback guy," "push over" who would accept such ludicrous conditions when he has been and continues to be wronged so badly on a daily basis.

Limbo is evil, its poison, its 100% wrong. She has no right to keep you in limbo. You have marital history with her, the POSOM has nothing but drug-like dopamine release. I was straight raging when I read "she wants to give it a try" as if that decision somehow belongs to her. It does not, it belongs to you. The only way I would ever consider "giving it a try" is if she immediately committed to NC with the POSOM in writing, no bargains on this, right this very moment, or you tell her she can take all the time she needs as you can no longer be her husband and will be serving her papers shortly. 

The idea that you should suffer for another month with this **** is insane. Please dont, its not worth it. If she is unwilling to put some dipstick she just met on hold for a few months while you two sort out your stuff, she is not really worth the effort.

As always, the condition of NC includes 100% transparency so you can verify, with or without her knowledge, that she is indeed maintaining NC. 

Best of luck to you. Get out of limbo ASAP.


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## BjornFree

The real question here is...What type of a woman is the one you're married to? I can think of a lot of answers that start with 'S' but I'll stick with Stupid.

Run Forrest Run!


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## bandit.45

sandc said:


> Yeah, I'd say file now or else Google "hotwife lifestyle" and welcome her home.
> 
> Personally I'd file.


Um, I think he did file guys. Hence the lawyers and stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Paladin

SteveK said:


> ....
> Well I am going to go dark on her except for my son and the D until mid April when POSOM leaves.
> Fellas I am telling you I never wanted t to see a man die a horrible death So badly.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





bandit.45 said:


> Um, I think he did file guys. Hence the lawyers and stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He sort of implies it there, but as you know, a person can meet with attorneys for info/consults without actually doing anything afterward. If he is indeed interested in D (I still cant tell 100% which way he is leaning) then going dark and letting her stew while he sorts things out legally is perfectly fine. *However,* he certainly doesnt need to wait till mid april to get the papers drafted and served to her. Its a lengthy process anyway, so he will have plenty of time to decide what he actually wants once the ball is rolling. Doing this simple thing will get him right out of limbo and back in the drivers seat if his own life. 

While this is all going on, she certainly shouldnt be using marital (joint) funds to screw around on him, so I hope the financial point has been raised with the attorney and his assets/finances are secured against that stuff.


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## rustytheboyrobot

Hey Steve, hope the morning sun finds you refreshed and invigorated! Go watch the clouds and listen to whatever you can hear. And do it every day.

I'm not sure what R is like because I left my ex on D-Day and on our one marriage counseling appointment turned out to be a simple ploy to file more false police reports against me. One day she was telling me she loved me three days later she was trying to stick me in jail and destroy my life. She nearly succeeded.

Hope things don't go that way for you.

It's hard for me to tell you what to do because my experience is mine and nobody else is going to go through these exact same things.

Stay calm, all the time. If you're worried about her filing nonsense police reports buy a digital recorder and start recording everything. Hell I record everything all the time. I record her, I record my health insurance company, I record random phone calls anytime I start to worry, I record my boss.... But in my state I can record anything I want because I know I'm recording it. Check with your lawyer to see what you can and cannot do. And once-upon-a-time someone told me that recording things can be personally useful, because when she lies to you you can go back and listen to the truth. That objective reality that really does exist, ephemerally. It does exist.

That little thing has been a godsend.

If you have joint assets get your lawyer to freeze them. I did and oohhhhh my god did it piss her off. Though it was sorta an accident. Our financial adviser called me a few days after D-Day, before the temporary protective order, one of the last times I was actually in my house, and asked me where to send the check. She was trying to cash out our entire retirement. And nearly succeeded. After I told him that we were divorcing everything froze and she no longer had access to any money at all. Hence her first lawyer, a free lawyer who represented battered women. Really? I've never hurt you or touched you that way in ten years. Never. But that's just a drop in the overflowing bucket and not worth worrying about. She can think or believe whatever she wants because reality exists.

People make their own decisions though. I mean she is going to make her own decisions and nothing you do, say, feel, or rage is going to change that. And you're going to have to hurt through it all and somehow learn to accept it. I'm still working on that. The worst is trying to learn to accept that you will never understand and can never understand. The best is realizing that you can't understand that. You are the kind of person who can't understand that. And that is wonderful.

My D has gone insanely successfully for me. But I'm, apparently, in a male-friendly state. In my state I can file at-fault, and I did. Didn't matter for custody but she bent instead of having to have to listen to the truth. With her mother there. Apparently they all think I'm delusional. They truly do. Even after I sent all the in-laws concrete proof of everything, several times. I guess it's just easier to think I'm delusional then to recognize what their daughter, niece, grand-daughter, etc.... really is.

It doesn't matter though. I know and after I accepted that and realized that I deserve better it was so easy to just move on. And it wasn't. I still have nightmares. But I wake up, I walk around outside and watch the tree branches shake. I think of my son giving me kisses and hugging me after telling me his diaper is dirty. Then I go back to sleep and I'm happy. Go figure that I'm actually happier now then I was before. I never would have thought.

Just stop talking to her. Really. Stop talking to her. If she starts talking to you turn around and walk away. Nothing she says matters anymore. Only you are giving her that power. Take it away and you'll have the power. And women respect power. Maybe not all women but in my limited experience that is the truth. Outside of work it's a struggle. Wearing the uniform and I've got chicks stealing my phone number and texting me at 3am.

Take the power back. Stop talking to her and NEVER give her the reason. File for divorce and don't talk to her about it. It's terribly hard, easier for me since at that time in my life I would have been arrested for talking to her, but god did I want to talk to her. Now I wish I never had to talk to her but we have a son.

Find some things you enjoy and start doing them. Have you ever wanted to paint? I painted my Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls a few weeks ago in oils and I hung it in my new room. It's not very good but I'm quite happy with it. Get in shape. Girls like it and you'll feel SOOO much better about yourself. Maybe you can reconnect with some old friends? I went to a fire-pit party after work today and had a few brews. Caught up with some old friends. Had some haggardly woman hit on me for thirty minutes before my friend came and rescued me.

I guess a lot of guys use their new-found energy to start working out. Everyone should so if you don't then start. Even if you can't find a friend to become your new gym rat then just go to the gym and start asking people for advice on how to use the machines. Then ask them to spot you. And start chatting. You'll meet new people and you'll find a spotting partner. Maybe you'll find someone to push you hard and you'll start enjoying your time with yourself.

As far as filing it took my lawyer four days after I told him to finally file (he was telling me to file forever). Hey everyone was telling me to file. I was just dense for awhile. It's sooo hard to move past giving someone the majority of your life and then finding out that they betrayed all of that. For a little tingle and a temporary fix. But you can't control that. You can't control any of that. You can control yourself though so be strong, be proud, stop talking to her EVER, and start focusing on yourself and your kids. Focus on the things that will matter in twenty years because she won't.

You deserve to be loved the way you love. One day you'll look back with that bewildered bemusement and you'll be happy. It's just that one day is a long ways off.

Stick around, there is a lot of help here. Don't get frustrated if some people are less helpful than others. Everyone is trying, in their own way, to help.


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

Oh wow just went and looked up your original thread. You're the tour guide guy.. I'm dense.

You need to do a 180 and just ignore her. Really that is like number one priority for you. Ignore her! You are better than that! You are worth more than that! We all know it and you need to do everything you can to stop thinking and worrying and hurting yourself about it.

You've got to take a giant step back because you are too close to the flames and you can't see the forest through the trees. Step back. Close your eyes. STOP TALKING TO HER AT ALL. Your eyes will adjust and you will finally start to see things.

All I'm asking is that you take at least a week and you do not talk to her. When she calls you you don't answer. Better yet immediately send her to voicemail. And when she calls back you immediately send her to voicemail again. And again. Then after the third time if it's getting hard you turn your phone off. And you wait a full day to listen to the messages. Then you come here and get some good advice and you spend another entire day thinking before you dare respond. And better yet, just don't. Don't respond. Trust me it's really weird but in my little bit of personal experience women go crazy when you won't be at their beck and call. Some want nothing to do with you once they realize they can't control you that way, so go away then, others will fold like leaves in a slight breeze and give you anything you want. Just to talk to them. Weird stuff and I'm still trying to figure it out.

You don't need her. You don't.

You need yourself so be there for yourself. Only you can make that happen so do it. Make it happen. Yeah it's hard, so hard. But it gets easier. And you have to try. Everyone should at least try.


----------



## SteveK

BjornFree said:


> The real question here is...What type of a woman is the one you're married to? I can think of a lot of answers that start with 'S' but I'll stick with Stupid.
> 
> Run Forrest Run!


Sometimes I question if the fighting and emotional abuse that she feels I caused broke her. I know that she also was controlling and mean, and as my kids stated, mom starts every fight but dad escalates them. I made her unhappy, at times I was unhappy, but I loved her.

Thing is if not for the DD1 I wonder if things would have ever gotten better at home before one of us walked.
I think a lot of the issue I am having with letting go is that I have a lot of guilt and want to show her I can and am the man she married not the man that I had been acting like.


----------



## SteveK

rustytheboyrobot said:


> Hey Steve, hope the morning sun finds you refreshed and invigorated! Go watch the clouds and listen to whatever you can hear. And do it every day.
> 
> RESPONSE: I Usually wake up at about 6 AM on Saturday and contemplate what when wrong and get overwhelmed by my lonely weekend.
> Then head to the GYM. Today I decided to sleep in a little and head out around 9-9:30.
> 
> I'm not sure what R is like because I left my ex on D-Day and on our one marriage counseling appointment turned out to be a simple ploy to file more false police reports against me. One day she was telling me she loved me three days later she was trying to stick me in jail and destroy my life. She nearly succeeded.
> 
> Hope things don't go that way for you.
> 
> RESPONSE: No false police reports but her and her POS have made our marital fights into abusive one sided arguments. At the attorneys yesterday I threatened that if she brings up Abuse I will drop the Colloborative Process and force litigation.r
> 
> It's hard for me to tell you what to do because my experience is mine and nobody else is going to go through these exact same things.
> 
> RESPONSE: I thank you for this, but I have a lot of guilt combined with fear.
> I am 50 and worry that it's harder to start all over at this age. I also get all bent out of shape that she has a relationship and is don't. I am the one waking up lonely in our marital bed. I also question how I handled the last and final Dday. She was on the fence and I threw her into his arms and it went from EA to PA.
> 
> 
> Stay calm, all the time. If you're worried about her filing nonsense police reports buy a digital recorder and start recording everything. Hell I record everything all the time. I record her, I record my health insurance company, I record random phone calls anytime I start to worry, I record my boss.... But in my state I can record anything I want because I know I'm recording it. Check with your lawyer to see what you can and cannot do. And once-upon-a-time someone told me that recording things can be personally useful, because when she lies to you you can go back and listen to the truth. That objective reality that really does exist, ephemerally. It does exist.
> 
> That little thing has been a godsend.
> 
> If you have joint assets get your lawyer to freeze them. I did and oohhhhh my god did it piss her off. Though it was sorta an accident. Our financial adviser called me a few days after D-Day, before the temporary protective order, one of the last times I was actually in my house, and asked me where to send the check. She was trying to cash out our entire retirement. And nearly succeeded. After I told him that we were divorcing everything froze and she no longer had access to any money at all. Hence her first lawyer, a free lawyer who represented battered women. Really? I've never hurt you or touched you that way in ten years. Never. But that's just a drop in the overflowing bucket and not worth worrying about. She can think or believe whatever she wants because reality exists.
> 
> RESPONSE: In a collaborative divorce everything is status quo. Joint accounts, insurance, we can't touch anything until final D is signed.
> She's the one that asked for the D, now she's the one that wants to drag it out. Originally she was going to come home last week and do some mediation, but then POSOM pushed her to start the process. Works for me because I was able to put in writing yesterday that the fact that PoS may stay in hotel a few more weeks and she wanted to split bill, that I will not allow marital assets to pay for this. I also mentioned that she was thinking of leaving the country again plus going to another state for the holidays. Both lawyers agreed I do not have to allow her (and I won't) to use this our cash for this.
> 
> People make their own decisions though. I mean she is going to make her own decisions and nothing you do, say, feel, or rage is going to change that. And you're going to have to hurt through it all and somehow learn to accept it. I'm still working on that. The worst is trying to learn to accept that you will never understand and can never understand. The best is realizing that you can't understand that. You are the kind of person who can't understand that. And that is wonderful.
> 
> My D has gone insanely successfully for me. But I'm, apparently, in a male-friendly state. In my state I can file at-fault, and I did. Didn't matter for custody but she bent instead of having to have to listen to the truth. With her mother there. Apparently they all think I'm delusional. They truly do. Even after I sent all the in-laws concrete proof of everything, several times. I guess it's just easier to think I'm delusional then to recognize what their daughter, niece, grand-daughter, etc.... really is.
> RESPONSE:
> In NYS adultery is a grounds for divorce..in my county the Judges award custody to the spouse living at home. My sons are21 and almost 16. Over 16 picks the parent as long as the courts determine the parent is reliable.
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter though. I know and after I accepted that and realized that I deserve better it was so easy to just move on. And it wasn't. I still have nightmares. But I wake up, I walk around outside and watch the tree branches shake. I think of my son giving me kisses and hugging me after telling me his diaper is dirty. Then I go back to sleep and I'm happy. Go figure that I'm actually happier now then I was before. I never would have thought.
> 
> RESPONSE: I keep thinking of what she's up to not physically just her daily activities. I do miss her like heck.
> 
> Just stop talking to her. Really. Stop talking to her. If she starts talking to you turn around and walk away. Nothing she says matters anymore. Only you are giving her that power. Take it away and you'll have the power. And women respect power. Maybe not all women but in my limited experience that is the truth. Outside of work it's a struggle. Wearing the uniform and I've got chicks stealing my phone number and texting me at 3am.
> 
> Take the power back. Stop talking to her and NEVER give her the reason. File for divorce and don't talk to her about it. It's terribly hard, easier for me since at that time in my life I would have been arrested for talking to her, but god did I want to talk to her. Now I wish I never had to talk to her but we have a son.
> 
> RESPONSE: We mostly talk about our son and finances. Funny she had said POS was deeper and more emotional then me. However, now she says that no matter what happens she wants to be my friend because she misses our conversations and how we connect...WTF.
> This entire affair is an escape and a MLC.
> She even winked at me and said basically that he sucks in the sac..
> 
> Find some things you enjoy and start doing them. Have you ever wanted to paint? I painted my Raggedy Ann and Andy dolls a few weeks ago in oils and I hung it in my new room. It's not very good but I'm quite happy with it. Get in shape. Girls like it and you'll feel SOOO much better about yourself. Maybe you can reconnect with some old friends? I went to a fire-pit party after work today and had a few brews. Caught up with some old friends. Had some haggardly woman hit on me for thirty minutes before my friend came and rescued me.
> 
> RESPONSE: I used to build plastic models. I need to reset up my shop and maybe get back into this.
> 
> I guess a lot of guys use their new-found energy to start working out. Everyone should so if you don't then start. Even if you can't find a friend to become your new gym rat then just go to the gym and start asking people for advice on how to use the machines. Then ask them to spot you. And start chatting. You'll meet new people and you'll find a spotting partner. Maybe you'll find someone to push you hard and you'll start enjoying your time with yourself.
> 
> RESPONSE : I am a gym rat, have a Golds membership and a home gym. I am I am in great shape, so not an issue.
> Problem for me is she and I worked out together for over 20 years. Everyone at our gym look at me like where's the wife? Some of our closest friends there no the story and are heartbroken. Many of them are shocked because a lot of her conversations with them where in judgement of people that were having affairs!
> She joined a PF near where she works but said she wants to start training with me again. The PF does not have everything she is used to...she used to compete in Female Figure and Fitness events. Was hoping to do a Masters level next summer and retire from shows. I was supposed to train her, her POS is and looks like Shrek.
> 
> As far as filing it took my lawyer four days after I told him to finally file (he was telling me to file forever). Hey everyone was telling me to file. I was just dense for awhile. It's sooo hard to move past giving someone the majority of your life and then finding out that they betrayed all of that. For a little tingle and a temporary fix. But you can't control that. You can't control any of that. You can control yourself though so be strong, be proud, stop talking to her EVER, and start focusing on yourself and your kids. Focus on the things that will matter in twenty years because she won't.
> 
> You deserve to be loved the way you love. One day you'll look back with that bewildered bemusement and you'll be happy. It's just that one day is a long ways off. THATS WHAT I AM AFRAID OF.
> 
> Stick around, there is a lot of help here. Don't get frustrated if some people are less helpful than others. Everyone is trying, in their own way, to help.



RESPONSE:
YES I REALLY WANT TO THANK EVERYONE. THING IS I SPREAD MYSELF ONTO TO MANY THREADS.

I FEEL WE MAY RECONCILE, BUT HOW DO I KNOW THAT SHE won't RUN AGAIN WHEN MY SON GRADUATES HIGH SCHOOL?

Truth is I am very sad and scared right now


----------



## SteveK

rustytheboyrobot said:


> Oh wow just went and looked up your original thread. You're the tour guide guy.. I'm dense.
> 
> You need to do a 180 and just ignore her. Really that is like number one priority for you. Ignore her! You are better than that! You are worth more than that! We all know it and you need to do everything you can to stop thinking and worrying and hurting yourself about it.
> 
> You've got to take a giant step back because you are too close to the flames and you can't see the forest through the trees. Step back. Close your eyes. STOP TALKING TO HER AT ALL. Your eyes will adjust and you will finally start to see things.
> 
> All I'm asking is that you take at least a week and you do not talk to her. When she calls you you don't answer. Better yet immediately send her to voicemail. And when she calls back you immediately send her to voicemail again. And again. Then after the third time if it's getting hard you turn your phone off. And you wait a full day to listen to the messages. Then you come here and get some good advice and you spend another entire day thinking before you dare respond. And better yet, just don't. Don't respond. Trust me it's really weird but in my little bit of personal experience women go crazy when you won't be at their beck and call. Some want nothing to do with you once they realize they can't control you that way, so go away then, others will fold like leaves in a slight breeze and give you anything you want. Just to talk to them. Weird stuff and I'm still trying to figure it out.
> 
> You don't need her. You don't.
> 
> You need yourself so be there for yourself. Only you can make that happen so do it. Make it happen. Yeah it's hard, so hard. But it gets easier. And you have to try. Everyone should at least try.


Rusty you are so right. On the 10 th of March she sent me an email about only communicating via email. I emailed her back no way on the phone only.
She ignored me. I called her office on the 11th, she answered " what's up" ( so she knew it was me). Called me that afternoon and we layed down the contact rules. I then asked her to watch our son on the 12 I had an overnight. Her and the pos made like I was gonna hide in the woods come in and hurt her or worse. I heard VM from him begging her to be careful all that crap ( a few days later I saw texts where she was giving him directions to the house, where he texted her ten times, where she told him he was waking her up and making her nuts!) ( I even saw one from the 11th where she texted him :HE CALLED ME TODAY I PICKED UP BY ACCIDENT WHAT SHOULD I DO? She was lying she knew it was me. This guy has so much control on her that she feels she has to tell him everything even if it's a lie). 

Anyway before I knew it she called my cell twice and the house on the day after she stayed over. I fell asleep early and never got her message. HERE IS WHY I SAY YOU ARE RIGHT:

I was not ignoring her. The last message I got was, OK BE THAT WAY IGNORE ME, I DONT KNOW WHAT GAME YOUR PLAYING BUT YOU NEED TO CALL ME!


----------



## davecarter

Jung_admirer said:


> Insightful :iagree:
> 
> I have a single male friend that chases married women because he is broken. He was egregiously betrayed early in life and has no trust in himself or others. (the James Bond character is written this way) Bedding married women gives him all the power ... he can expose them at any time. I have spent 25 yrs trying to get him to consider IC (without success). He would never consider a relationship with any of these women because he knows from the start they are betrayers. There is safety in that knowledge from his perspective.


I know a guy _exactly _like that also.
A former 'friend' of mine who turned out to be my wife's OM#2.


----------



## Rugs

Steve, I just finished reading everything here and I know this is a huge shock but I can feel the desperation in your posts. 

It's very difficult to do but in order to gain the upper hand, you must stop. Stop communicating with your wife, that's why you are paying a lawyer. Be o good dad to your kids and ignore your wife. 

File for divorce if you haven't already. 

Set a good example for your children and practice the 180.

I'm guessing this tour bus relationship will end soon. Relationships that start hot and heavy like this, usually fizzle out pretty quickly. 

Will you want your wife back when she comes back? 

I'm not trying to be harsh because your life really is a mess right now and this is the place to come and let out your frustrations, just don't take the desperation home with you. 

Let this POSOM know he can have your wife. You are making her out to be some sort of goddess and making her more desirable than she really is. 

A smokin' body on even a 50 year old only goes so far. She's got some light bulbs turned off right now and she seems rather goofy from what you describe. 

Let her know you can live just fine without her and take the time to figure out if you want her back WHEN she comes back. 

She WILL come back and she will come back to you because right now, she has you and the bus driver under her spell. Take some of her power away by ignoring her. If the old bus driver is so great, let him have her.


----------



## SteveK

Rugs said:


> Steve, I just finished reading everything here and I know this is a huge shock but I can feel the desperation in your posts.
> 
> It's very difficult to do but in order to gain the upper hand, you must stop. Stop communicating with your wife, that's why you are paying a lawyer. Be o good dad to your kids and ignore your wife.
> 
> File for divorce if you haven't already.
> 
> Set a good example for your children and practice the 180.
> 
> I'm guessing this tour bus relationship will end soon. Relationships that start hot and heavy like this, usually fizzle out pretty quickly.
> 
> Will you want your wife back when she comes back?
> 
> I'm not trying to be harsh because your life really is a mess right now and this is the place to come and let out your frustrations, just don't take the desperation home with you.
> 
> Let this POSOM know he can have your wife. You are making her out to be some sort of goddess and making her more desirable than she really is.
> 
> A smokin' body on even a 50 year old only goes so far. She's got some light bulbs turned off right now and she seems rather goofy from what you describe.
> 
> Let her know you can live just fine without her and take the time to figure out if you want her back WHEN she comes back.
> 
> She WILL come back and she will come back to you because right now, she has you and the bus driver under her spell. Take some of her power away by ignoring her. If the old bus driver is so great, let him have her.


Ok so here is my question to all my buds on TAM.

Last night she was going to tell POSOM about her plans to do an in home separation. She claimed he was going to go Ape****. I was hoping her would.
She was going to text me last night...never did...I texted her to make sure she was ok....( ok I know, don't attack me)

She is estranged from my 21 year old because he wrote her a Nasty gram. Everyone except wifey , pos and her few friends say he was wrong. Everyone else including the attorneys, therapists and the rest of the human race see nothing wrong with it and say she deserved it.

Wifey wants to go see him in April and have a heart to heart, no apologies just start fresh like he was just born.

Obviously she was influenced by someone last night.

So today I get a text...

" when you visit with him next week u tell him u NEED to tell him to contact me first.

Notice the tone, bossing me again..also I have not responded to ask about what happened last night but I am so tempted to....

What should I do?


----------



## Married but Happy

SteveK said:


> So today I get a text...
> 
> " when you visit with him next week u tell him u NEED to tell him to contact me first.
> 
> Notice the tone, bossing me again..also I have not responded to ask about what happened last night but I am so tempted to....
> 
> What should I do?


Ignore the text (or simply respond "No"), and do not do as she asks. She created the problem so let her solve it.


----------



## bandit.45

Rugs said:


> A smokin' body on even a 50 year old only goes so far. She's got some light bulbs turned off right now and she seems rather goofy from what you describe.
> 
> Let her know you can live just fine without her and take the time to figure out if you want her back WHEN she comes back.
> 
> She WILL come back and she will come back to you because right now, she has you and the bus driver under her spell. Take some of her power away by ignoring her. If the old bus driver is so great, let him have her.


:iagree: Totally.


----------



## Paladin

SteveK said:


> I FEEL WE MAY RECONCILE, BUT HOW DO I KNOW THAT SHE won't RUN AGAIN WHEN MY SON GRADUATES HIGH SCHOOL?
> 
> Truth is I am very sad and scared right now


Your fears are understandable, but it is only by embracing those fears that you stand any chance at all to have the outcome you seem to desire. You have to be 100% willing to move on without her in your life, you wont be able to fake that sort of thing anyway, and if you try, you will be labelled "manipulative."

You also never get any guarantee that she wont run again once your youngest is done with school. Part of the hard work that goes into true R requires the fWS to do everything possible to restore trust and security. Going on to three years in R, and my partner still asks every once in a while if I want to look through her phone/laptop etc.. She knows I dont need that kind of reassurance now, but is still conscious of it. Another big step for R and healing is making sure both spouses protect healthy marital boundaries.

As far as her dragging her feet on D and hedging her bets by badmouthing the POSOM, its really to be expected. The brain begins to down regulate the receptors for dopamine almost immediately after it is released in large amounts. As time passes, she will develop a tolerance to the affair high and will no longer feel any significant satisfaction from the POSOM. How can he possibly compete with all your history? 

Whenever possible, try and mention to her that you are not interested in being friends with her after the D because of the difficulty it would create for your personal healing. When she talks that way to you she is still trying to make sure you will be around for her to fall back on. I assume once your son is a bit older you will not have anything to talk to her about anyway. 

As far as your guilt goes, its perfectly normal, as well as missing the feeling of what you had with her. A normal functioning adult is willing and able to look at their own contributions to the breakdown of the relationship. Regardless of how much of an arse you might have been, or what you did wrong in the relationship, you never went outside of the marriage to cope/deal/get off/escape, she is currently still doing just that. And unless you physically inserted the POSOMs pathetic weenie into your wife, you are not responsible for her affair and her choice to have sex/or whatever with him.

Only her actions, not her words, are going to be worth any amount of attention. Anything short of what I mentioned earlier, immediate NC, remorse, transparency and accountability, should be looked at as her choosing him over you and being completely uninterested in "giving it a try."

One last point and I'm off my soapbox for the morning. You mentioned feeling down about her seemingly being happy and in a relationship while you are alone, but in reality, what she has is the equivalent of a heroin habit. Sure and addict looks happy when they have their fix, but unless they are completely out of touch with reality, deep down inside they know its superficial and not real. Eventually the drug use stops and the addict comes crashing down. So next time you feel bad about her "relationship" just think "junkies dont know what happy really is."

(not trying to marginalize the very real and destructive disease of addiction with the last statement, just trying to help the OP see another side)


----------



## bandit.45

SteveK said:


> So today I get a text...
> 
> " when you visit with him next week u tell him u NEED to tell him to contact me first.
> 
> Notice the tone, bossing me again..also I have not responded to ask about what happened last night but I am so tempted to....
> 
> What should I do?


No one should have to tell you this Steve, but here is an idea. Text her this:

"No. I won't do that. Your relationship with our son is yours and yours alone. Your cheating has caused this rift between the two of you. You broke the relationship, you fix it. I am not playing middleman between you and our son. He is an adult. If he does not want to talk to you, that is his choice."


----------



## Acabado

SteveK said:


> I think a lot of the issue I am having with letting go is that I have a lot of guilt and want to show her I can and am the man she married not the man that I had been acting like.


You can do it without letting her walk over you. Being aware of your shortcomings your contribution to the dismissal of the marriage and your willingless to learn and change is not mutually exclusive with being strong in your determination, asserting your boundaires, and putting lines in the sand. 
She can't respect a weak man, she won't. Any trace of respect she could have will get lost if you let her cuckold you. 
She already knows you are more than willing to put your work on rebuilding the marriage, there's no need to show her it anymore. She knows you are desperate to keep her, no matter whow. What she doesn't "know" yet is you won't tolerate more disrespect, your willingness to let her go, hence her ''offer'' of coming back once-OM-has-to-go. She knows you will put up with her crap forever, that you will be therre for her no matter what if things doesn't work with POSOM.
It's unnaceptable.
Let her go with grace, not in anger.
Tough love, firm boundaires, self respect. Showing those traits is your only chance, not your offers of change-into-better-husband-from-now-on. She's too hooked up in this OM and the affair nonsense to give a damm. She's on drugs, empowered and full of herself.
Maybe, just maybe if you shock her with letting her go and making the reality of divorce self evident she will start reconsidering her choices and current mindset.


----------



## Acabado

bandit.45 said:


> No one should have to tell you this Steve, but here is an idea. Text her this:
> 
> "No. I won't do that. Your relationship with our son is yours and yours alone. Your cheating has caused this rift between the two of you. You broke the relationship, you fix it. I am not playing middleman between you and our son. He is an adult. If he does not want to talk to you, that is his choice."


This, this.


----------



## happy as a clam

This is the THIRD thread from the OP with the same story....!!!!

:wtf:

:banghead: :scratchhead:

It makes it very difficult to follow what is happening currently or to offer any meaningful advice.

Two of the threads should be locked. Stick to one thread Steve.


----------



## SteveK

I am going to lock all the threads except the 911 in the embers section. This was just a general question and turned to about me that was not my intention


----------



## Rugs

IGNORE HER!!!! Quit inviting her drama into your life. 

Your son is 21 and an adult, let them deal with their problems without you. 

C'mon man!!


Do not engage, AT ALL, and it immediately solves ALL problems.


----------



## SteveK

Ok, so I am going to move over to the members only section and stick to the post

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/177346-911-all-my-tam-friends-stevek.html

I really did not mean to end up with three open threads...:scratchhead:


----------



## Rugs

Cry in your car or in the park. Don't let your wife see you as weak. 

Come here and b!tch about her, POSOM, or anything. 

Of course you need to cry and vent, this is a terrible, terrible life event. 

Just act strong when she is around. Laugh with your kids. Watch a silly movie, go punch some Sh!t at the gym. Anything but engage with your wife. 

She needs to know she is a castaway on a deserted island and you are not going to save her. When she starts her crazy Sh!t on that bus driver, he is going to throw her straight under the proverbial bus. Wait and see how fast she wakes up when you are not there to listen to the drama. Pretty damn fast I'll bet.


----------



## SteveK

Rugs said:


> Cry in your car or in the park. Don't let your wife see you as weak.
> 
> Come here and b!tch about her, POSOM, or anything.
> 
> Of course you need to cry and vent, this is a terrible, terrible life event.
> 
> Just act strong when she is around. Laugh with your kids. Watch a silly movie, go punch some Sh!t at the gym. Anything but engage with your wife.
> 
> She needs to know she is a castaway on a deserted island and you are not going to save her. When she starts her crazy Sh!t on that bus driver, he is going to throw her straight under the proverbial bus. Wait and see how fast she wakes up when you are not there to listen to the drama. Pretty damn fast I'll bet.



Thanks Rugs your an inspiration, you really are..

Can you post to the below if its for me thanks!!!

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/private-members-section/177346-911-all-my-tam-friends-stevek-6.html#post7783130


----------



## NextTimeAround

> But I'm, apparently, in a male-friendly state. In my state I can file at-fault, and I did.


Which states are those?


----------



## 3putt

NextTimeAround said:


> Which states are those?


South Carolina is one. 'Bout the only good thing about this state though. Well, that and golf courses galore.


----------



## Philat

3putt said:


> South Carolina is one. '*Bout the only good thing about this state* though. Well, that and golf courses galore.


Don't discount your own self, there, 3putt!


----------



## 3putt

Philat said:


> Don't discount your own self, there, 3putt!


That kind of you , philat!


----------



## rustytheboyrobot

I should have said more male-friendly. Thank God I don't live in California. There are lots of states you can file at-fault but the laws vary wildly and so does what is considered at-fault. It would have been difficult to prove but both my lawyer and I were confident that it could be proven based on testimony from her ex friends, screenshots of forum posts, and me having access to all of her e-mails. Wish I could have gotten screenshots of her facebook account but she erased it the day after D-day.

The mass of highly graphic (highly pornographic) pictures she sent at random and the ones that he requested so she sent are pretty damning too. While telling him that our son was locked in his room and crying so he couldn't catch her... So glad that I can type that and not start crying now.

In any event I never had to prove it. She was too scared of having my evidence presented (and you know, having to face reality) and waaay too scared of having my evidence presented while her mother was there so she just bent and agreed to almost everything I wanted.

Of course I'll never be my sons custodial parent. Joint legal custody with no veto rights for her was a huge win though. She doesn't get spousal support but everything she pays on was claimed as spousal support by my lawyer, and they never objected. There was a reason for that though since it appears she is going to file bankruptcy soon and this keeps my house and cars safe.

You know if you can't file at-fault in your state but you have the evidence to prove it conclusively and you have money to burn you can move to Alaska and file for D their on the day you get some mail. Then you can file at-fault in Alaska. You'll just have to go to court there. I think there are other states that allow you to file at-fault with no residency as well but I can't remember what states they are.

If you have money to burn you can use the system that's already rigged against you (because you have a penis) to your advantage as best you can.

I mean I would like to live in a world where I could tell the judge hey, look, she locked our one year old son in his room and he was crying (by her own admition) so she could take _these exact_ extremely pornographic pictures to send to the man she was cheating on our family with. So can I, you know, see my son half of his life? But no it doesn't work that way. I can get 65% of the marital assets because of that. Well even that isn't enough. I can get 65% of the assets because she admitted to physical intercourse and talked to him about it. Not like in those vanilla words though. In horrible words.

Oh well, guess you lose some and win some. At least I don't have to come home from work to a wife that won't hold my hand or hug me anymore.


----------



## NextTimeAround

A friend of mine got divorced in the state of Kansas. The only way that she learned that her husband was buying property with his mistress was thanks to a state law that stipulated that married people cannot buy property without the written consent of their spouse.

So, to all those people who are dead against snooping, isn't it nice to knwo that at least one US state protects people _in some way who_ are married to cheaters.


----------



## SteveK

NextTimeAround said:


> A friend of mine got divorced in the state of Kansas. The only way that she learned that her husband was buying property with his mistress was thanks to a state law that stipulated that married people cannot buy property without the written consent of their spouse.
> 
> So, to all those people who are dead against snooping, isn't it nice to knwo that at least one US state protects people _in some way who_ are married to cheaters.


If your in a collaborative process in NYS you have to be totally transparent until the last D paper is signed. We were told we have to,still share our accounts.

I was able to nix the idea of my WAS paying half for her POS 's hotel rooms since he is going broke. Plus I was able to block her from buying plane tickets. You have to stay within what was reasonable and customary during the marriage. One vacation a year, one over seas every two to three was customary. We went to Florida for Christmas. She went to Israel and spent about 2 k including tickets, wants to go again....not on my dime...the attorneys agreed ...our marital assets including her income are NOT TO be used to fund her relationship.

So I would look into the collaborative process if your state has it, as long as you to can be in the same room without murdering each other..


----------



## alexm

ThePheonix said:


> Like a buddy of mine said, " last year at this time I wanted to kill the SOB she ran off with. Now I'd like to shake his hand and thank him".


I think a lot of us end up feeling this way eventually. It's a truly great feeling, when it comes! And believe me, it does.

The other thought we'll all eventually have is "they deserve each other", which is often true. Let HIM deal with her now, instead of me.

And in a lot of cases, mine included, the exes have to deal with the fact they're with somebody who was willing and capable of taking somebody else's wife/husband. Don't think this doesn't occur to them at some point or another, even fleetingly. I'm sure my ex wife has had this pop into her head. So there will always be that lack of trust there, however slight. My ex will never fully trust her new guy, whether she acknowledges it or not. She knows he's capable.


----------



## ing

bandit.45 said:


> No one should have to tell you this Steve, but here is an idea. Text her this:
> 
> "No. I won't do that. Your relationship with our son is yours and yours alone. Your cheating has caused this rift between the two of you. You broke the relationship, you fix it. I am not playing middleman between you and our son. He is an adult. If he does not want to talk to you, that is his choice."


This is really important. There is probably a pre-existing dynamic where you are the emotional buffer between your wife and her son. 
You have probably been doing this for years without realizing it. It is now vital that you withdraw from this role. Your wife will be furious with you and your Son will want to talk to you.

It is fine to talk to them about each other but you NEVER act as a conduit. Make this clear that this is your new reality.

This will be hard to do because it will also reveal all the other places where you have been used as an emotional buffer, filter or protection for your wife. 
She is expecting you to do this for her OM and guess what. 

You are. 

The OM is getting off on you being involved emotionally and to some extent the affair is as much with you as your wife. 
I intercepted a lot of comms between exw and her Om early on in the affair and was amazed at how much I was discussed. I think your case may be similar.

Please. Stop fighting with her, stop engaging with her at all and leave the emotional support to OM and friends. 


I can fix all your problems for $5 but I don;t make change..


----------



## arbitrator

NextTimeAround said:


> Which states are those?


*Texas(a Community Property State) is primarily "at-fault," unless there is the presence of a valid prenup, and then it reverts to "no-fault!"*


----------



## SteveK

alexm said:


> I think a lot of us end up feeling this way eventually. It's a truly great feeling, when it comes! And believe me, it does.
> 
> The other thought we'll all eventually have is "they deserve each other", which is often true. Let HIM deal with her now, instead of me.
> 
> And in a lot of cases, mine included, the exes have to deal with the fact they're with somebody who was willing and capable of taking somebody else's wife/husband. Don't think this doesn't occur to them at some point or another, even fleetingly. I'm sure my ex wife has had this pop into her head. So there will always be that lack of trust there, however slight. My ex will never fully trust her new guy, whether she acknowledges it or not. She knows he's capable.


This is a Guarantee with my wife. Especially when hes out doing tours while she is stuck here..She says she wants to go on some tours with him BS, its the same reason his wife did...LACK OF TRUST!


----------



## options20

I've never been with a married woman. But I've never been against it either though in the sense of just sex. It could be if he knew you well that he knew your relationship was already weak and he cared about her. Or it could just be that he doesn't know you doesn't care that she'd be cheating on you because you were no one special to him so there was no promise to him not to have sexual relations with your wife. With you out of the equation then it's all dependent on what he and your stbx want.

That's how it was for me and my married man. I never wanted him as a boyfriend though or coaxed him to leave his wife all I really was interested in was having a good time and nothing serious.

Also just because one had sexual relations with a married person doesn't mean they'd chose to cheat as well. I've always been honest with anyone I was intimate with. I never would stay in an unhappy relationship. However I was well willing to have an intimate relationship with a guy who was married with kids because to me that was his choice. My concern on his personal decisions weren't really my business therefore I found no reason to not have sex with him just because he decided to cheat on his wife.


----------



## Dyokemm

"I found no reason to not have sex with him just because he decided to cheat on his wife."

OK...you figure its his choice to cheat.

But WTF gives you the right to insult and injure a woman who had never done a da*n thing to you?

There is no excuse for you wronging her...so your actions are just as disgusting as his, even though you never made vows to her.


----------



## russell28

options20 said:


> I've never been with a married woman. But I've never been against it either though in the sense of just sex. It could be if he knew you well that he knew your relationship was already weak and he cared about her. Or it could just be that he doesn't know you doesn't care that she'd be cheating on you because you were no one special to him so there was no promise to him not to have sexual relations with your wife. With you out of the equation then it's all dependent on what he and your stbx want.
> 
> That's how it was for me and my married man. I never wanted him as a boyfriend though or coaxed him to leave his wife all I really was interested in was having a good time and nothing serious.
> 
> Also just because one had sexual relations with a married person doesn't mean they'd chose to cheat as well. I've always been honest with anyone I was intimate with. I never would stay in an unhappy relationship. However I was well willing to have an intimate relationship with a guy who was married with kids because to me that was his choice. My concern on his personal decisions weren't really my business therefore I found no reason to not have sex with him just because he decided to cheat on his wife.


This shows that you're not able to really think or care about anyone other than yourself. It's a selfish entitled attitude, and while you say you wouldn't cheat on your spouse because you sleep with a married man, you're only one lame excuse away and you've shown you can come up with some real gems pretty easily. You're 90% there already... His personal choices are your business once you inject yourself into the situation. Why not let him sleep with someone else and keep some dignity and self respect instead of being his free prostitute? Because you don't really have any respect for marriage, relationship or just people in general.. like those kids of his you mentioned as if they were things. You'd help him destroy lives, instead of letting some other tramp do it.. that speaks volumes of your lack of character.


"I found no reason to not have sex with him" I have a few..

he's a cheat and a liar

he's married with kids

you didn't want him as a boyfriend

you can have a 'good time' with a guy that's not married, go to a bar and let them know it doesn't take any effort to get you in bed

if you're completely honest with men, they will use you for sex and run, you might want to start lying to them like most cheaters do, pretend you care about people other than yourself. You'll die lonely, but you'll get lots of sex.


----------



## SteveK

Dyokemm said:


> Steve,
> 
> Listen to your Rabbi.
> 
> Kick her out, file for D, and NEVER look back.


I am not there yet. But I have committed that if he comes to the USA again and she sees him..

I am putting all her clothes in the Storage facility down the road from me and that's it .

Do you know That she lies to him more than she does to me!!!

I know that thanks to Weighlifters lessons on covert techniques.


----------



## SteveK

Rugs said:


> Cry in your car or in the park. Don't let your wife see you as weak.
> 
> Come here and b!tch about her, POSOM, or anything.
> 
> Of course you need to cry and vent, this is a terrible, terrible life event.
> 
> Just act strong when she is around. Laugh with your kids. Watch a silly movie, go punch some Sh!t at the gym. Anything but engage with your wife.
> 
> She needs to know she is a castaway on a deserted island and you are not going to save her. When she starts her crazy Sh!t on that bus driver, he is going to throw her straight under the proverbial bus. Wait and see how fast she wakes up when you are not there to listen to the drama. Pretty damn fast I'll bet.


I am seeing this more and more...

She keeps coming back to live with me!

She tells me we cant share the bed, then finds an excuse for me to sleep in it...( I do, but i put a large body pillow between us)


----------



## SteveK

options20 said:


> I've never been with a married woman. But I've never been against it either though in the sense of just sex. It could be if he knew you well that he knew your relationship was already weak and he cared about her. Or it could just be that he doesn't know you doesn't care that she'd be cheating on you because you were no one special to him so there was no promise to him not to have sexual relations with your wife. With you out of the equation then it's all dependent on what he and your stbx want.
> 
> That's how it was for me and my married man. I never wanted him as a boyfriend though or coaxed him to leave his wife all I really was interested in was having a good time and nothing serious.
> 
> Also just because one had sexual relations with a married person doesn't mean they'd chose to cheat as well. I've always been honest with anyone I was intimate with. I never would stay in an unhappy relationship. However I was well willing to have an intimate relationship with a guy who was married with kids because to me that was his choice. My concern on his personal decisions weren't really my business therefore I found no reason to not have sex with him just because he decided to cheat on his wife.



In all seriousness, I think this is how he felt with all his other AP's. But with my wife I think he sees someone who can take care of him, all of the therapists any of us have seen even my sons, say that she is seduced by need. That this man is like a weak child. He plays the strong ex-soldier boy, but actaully as she said "hes a sweet guy". He is 54 years old a Tour Guide a supposed war hero in his country, and NEVER EVER NEVER has found the right woman.

Our MC believes that he had this Theoretical Cube and all the features of the woman had to fit this cube or he would not commit himself.

My wife fell into that cube. IT covers everything from looks to intelligence etc...

He also I believe goggled my last name. My Surname is not very popular. There is a branch of my family on our family tree that makes the Trumps look poor and weak. The truth is...they are on the family tree, I am less connected to them financially then I am connected to the coyote that ripped up my garbage last night!
But he does not believe that.


----------



## SteveK

ing said:


> This will be hard to do because it will also reveal all the other places where you have been used as an emotional buffer, filter or protection for your wife.
> She is expecting you to do this for her OM and guess what.
> 
> You are.
> 
> The OM is getting off on you being involved emotionally and to some extent the affair is as much with you as your wife.
> I intercepted a lot of comms between exw and her Om early on in the affair and was amazed at how much I was discussed. I think your case may be similar.
> 
> Please. Stop fighting with her, stop engaging with her at all and leave the emotional support to OM and friends.
> 
> 
> I can fix all your problems for $5 but I don;t make change..


This is so true.
I know for a fact that all he does is focus on me.

I think the last time she saw him he gave her [email protected] about his bad boy post that said I was sharing a bed with her. 

He also calls me a bug and says he can squash me...He sounds like a little boy in the school yard...At one point he thought I "hacked" his FB account...he told her he was calling Interpol and having me arrested!!! what a Schmuck!

He also told her I was a pervert and a sexual predator..WTF...
I have only been with her no other woman for 32 Freaking years!!!
He says that every single post on all the Cheater sites were written by me, every email he gets every message he gets all were by me!!!!


----------



## Divinely Favored

arbitrator said:


> *He also seems to have way too little regard or respect for his own well-being in his lurid avocation of chasing married women. After all, just one lecherous episode gone-wrong, affecting only one jilted husband could well place him within the dark confines of a body bag!*


what body bag? there's nothing left to put in a body bag! (first offense if they're not married and knows spouse is) first offense if he is married with children would be knock him in the head and turn him into a steer (so he does not contaminate the gene pool) at least if not physically removing penis so he can still work and provide for his family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SteveK

russell28 said:


> *This shows that you're not able to really think or care about anyone other than yourself.*
> This is what I believe to be true about WAW's OM,he does not really care about her, its all about him, except she won't see that until its to late for us!
> 
> It's a selfish entitled attitude, and while you say you wouldn't cheat on your spouse because you sleep with a married man, you're only one lame excuse away and you've shown you can come up with some real gems pretty easily. You're 90% there already... His personal choices are your business once you inject yourself into the situation. Why not let him sleep with someone else and keep some dignity and self respect instead of *being his free prostitute? * Because you don't really have any respect for marriage, relationship or just people in general..
> 
> This is exactly how I feel about POSOM, he did not even respect his own marriage. When the Affair was just EA I kept warning my wife of this. Her Brother-in-law even warned her that the guy has commitment issues after meeting him...he warned her that once she leaves me and goes with OM, OM will start looking for someone better..its a form of mental illness.
> 
> like those kids of his you mentioned as if they were things. You'd help him destroy lives, instead of letting some other tramp do it.. that speaks volumes of your lack of character.
> 
> Again this POS that I am dealing with runs Birthright Tours for young Jewish kids, he also tells my wife he wishes I DID NOT POISON MY SONS !! *AGAINST HIM!!!!*
> 
> I poisoned my sons against him..he does not give a Rats A$$ about my sons..He told my wife he would have been a better father than me WTF!!!??? I don't think I even need to explain that one!
> 
> "I found no reason to not have sex with him" I have a few..
> 
> he's a cheat and a liar
> 
> he's married with kids
> 
> you didn't want him as a boyfriend
> 
> you can have a 'good time' with a guy that's not married, go to a bar and let them know it doesn't take any effort to get you in bed
> 
> if you're completely honest with men, they will use you for sex and run, you might want to start lying to them like most cheaters do, pretend you care about people other than yourself. You'll die lonely, but you'll get lots of sex.



The Prostitute comment gets me too. I told the WAW that he puts her up in hotels brings her to his country pays for everything like shes a High Priced Call Girl..She said no your wrong I paid for my original tickets..he only paid for the last ones...Yeesh


----------



## SteveK

Divinely Favored said:


> what body bag? there's nothing left to put in a body bag! (first offense if they're not married and knows spouse is) first offense if he is married with children would be knock him in the head and turn him into a steer (so he does not contaminate the gene pool) at least if not physically removing penis so he can still work and provide for his family.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Since you use divine in your name I will mention this:

This POSOM tells woman he targets that god introduced them...He thinks hes the second coming !!!


----------



## russell28

SteveK said:


> The Prostitute comment gets me too. I told the WAW that he puts her up in hotels brings her to his country pays for everything like shes a High Priced Call Girl..She said no your wrong I paid for my original tickets..he only paid for the last ones...Yeesh


Right after dday, my wife corrected me when I said "motel", she said under her breath "it was a hotel not a motel"... that's so much more classy. I wonder if they got the honeymoon suite or the hourly rate room... The post you commented on, she is a fine example of how an AP can also be in a 'fog' (full of self deluded bull crap reasoning). She's a me-me person, that needs to justify helping a jerk destroy his family, by saying 'it's his choice'. If someone told her they were going to steal something, they needed her help, I suppose if it feels good she'll go for it, just say it was their choice, she just went along for the ride and used the thing they stole, but takes no blame or responsibility whatsoever. I'm sure the judge will let her walk for good behavior.


----------



## WillinTampa

What type of man chases married woman? --- A predator.

These guys sniff out insecurities and tell women what they want to hear. Unhappy married women are easy targets for them.

Also, taking another man's wife is an ego boost for them.

I think most of these guys can't form a real relationship with an independent woman.

Guys like him need the constant thrill and she won't provide it forever. He'll move on to someone else's wife. 

Eventually, someone will either shoot him or cut his **** off -- and in the Middle East, I'd say his chances of ending up ****less are pretty good.

.


----------



## arbitrator

In_The_Wind said:


> Married women are easy , and most don't want a relationship just sex. Limited time commitment, some sick puppies think it's manly to bed another guys wife etc etc *not as much fear of stds*
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


*But largely given this scenario, shouldn't it be fair to say that the married woman be the one who should be even more concerned about contracting STD's?

Now if her paramour is also married, it would better stand to reason that they would both seem better fit to be disease free; unless of course, and given that either one of them might actually be serial cheaters, who would summarily drop their drawers at either the mere drop of a hat, or a stiff breeze!

Or perhaps something else remotely stiffer! *


----------



## russell28

arbitrator said:


> *But largely given this scenario, shouldn't it be fair to say that the married woman be the one who should be even more concerned about contracting STD's?
> 
> Now if her paramour is also married, it would better stand to reason that they would both seem better fit to be disease free; unless of course, given that either one of them might actually be serial cheaters who would summarily drop their drawers at the mere drop of a hat! *


Re: STDs, had to point out to the WW, that he might have been cheating on her and who knows where the other women he's sleeping with have been.. not to mention his girlfriend might be cheating on him, she could give him something, he gives it to her, she gives it to me... I guess his peeny had a special affair proof resistance to STDs, so it was all safe and good.


----------



## SteveK

russell28 said:


> Re: STDs, had to point out to the WW, that he might have been cheating on her and who knows where the other women he's sleeping with have been.. not to mention his girlfriend might be cheating on him, she could give him something, he gives it to her, she gives it to me... I guess his peeny had a special affair proof resistance to STDs, so it was all safe and good.


My idiot says shes post menopausal so shes safe (She has a PHD in a medical Science!!)

She also says he has not been with that many woman, he has never lied to her and he told her he is clean.

Then she tells me he has the smallest DEEK shes ever seen and she told him that!! I wonder if that how she sprained her shoulder.

I also have decided if she has something and so do I , then she lied about not being a PA until she ran off in Feb. I swear I will divorce her and then sue her in civil court for damages. I will take back everything the D-Court awards her...I know a Physician who did this and his wife ended up with $0.00. Oh and he got the four kids too.


----------



## cool12

steve how on earth can you even talk to your wife about her lover's penis? 

that's so gross.


----------



## ShootMePlz!

*But I have committed that if he comes to the USA again and she sees him..

I am putting all her clothes in the Storage facility down the road from me and that's it .*

You do see why this has continued as long as it has? You keep drawing a line in the sand then watch the tide wash it away then draw another etc etc!! She doesn't believe you anymore!! 

You said in another post that she keeps coming back to you...:scratchhead: Or is it really that she keeps coming back to where her kids are, work etc and stays at the house!!


----------



## SteveK

cool12 said:


> steve how on earth can you even talk to your wife about her lover's penis?
> 
> that's so gross.


I did not ask for this.

When she first came home for some reason she asked me whats the normal size. 

I said I dont know I dont walk around measuring

she said hes over 6'2" tall and he reminded me of the boys when they were kids!!

so I said, " after that he twisted your arm?" (she injured her shoulder claiming she slipped in the shower)

This time she came home with a huge bruise on her Buttocks that looks like a kick and scrapes down her leg!

She told me that they were hiking and she slipped . Two days latter I asked her, "When did you tell him that you wanted to keep the relationship plutonic for now until you got your head straight?" She says while we where hiking.


----------



## arbitrator

cool12 said:


> steve how on earth can you even talk to your wife about her lover's penis?
> 
> that's so gross.


*The only way that I would ever enter into a conversation about such subject matter, to my rich, skanky XW, would be if I contracted Lorena Bobbitt to go snip it off, gift wrap it, and then hand it over to her.

Then she could talk as much as she absolutely wanted to about it, until the cows came home!*


----------



## cool12

SteveK said:


> I did not ask for this.
> 
> 
> 
> When she first came home for some reason she asked me whats the normal size.
> 
> 
> 
> I said I dont know I dont walk around measuring
> 
> 
> 
> she said hes over 6'2" tall and he reminded me of the boys when they were kids!!
> 
> 
> 
> so I said, " after that he twisted your arm?" (she injured her shoulder claiming she slipped in the shower)
> 
> 
> 
> This time she came home with a huge bruise on her Buttocks that looks like a kick and scrapes down her leg!
> 
> 
> 
> She told me that they were hiking and she slipped . Two days latter I asked her, "When did you tell him that you wanted to keep the relationship plutonic for now until you got your head straight?" She says while we where hiking.



fair enough steve but when you mention it so casually, just to tear him down, it makes you appear immature. 

she is humiliating you in every possible way and you make jokes about it.


----------



## vi_bride04

cool12 said:


> fair enough steve but when you mention it so casually, just to tear him down, it makes you appear immature.
> 
> she is humiliating you in every possible way and you make jokes about it.


:iagree:

It makes you look even weaker in your WW eyes whenever you do it.


----------



## russell28

cool12 said:


> fair enough steve but when you mention it so casually, just to tear him down, it makes you appear immature.
> 
> she is humiliating you in every possible way and you make jokes about it.


I know, why would you talk to your wife about her boyfriend? There are two things to say about it, 'get' and 'out'. You want back in, get rid of the boyfriend to start.. then work from there.

Listen to these guys, no way you should be with your wife if she has a boyfriend, overseas, in any seas...


----------



## Pluto2

Chastising Steve for his conversation with WAW will only cause him to drop this thread and start again somewhere else. He does not like to hear the advice that is offered.


----------



## Mike11

Steve How much more emotional abuse you are going to take from your wife... she is talking to you about her lovers penile problems for crying our loud, Seriously? send her away!! let her try and live with him in Israel,

I am not sure how much you know about Israel, Tour guides are at the bottom of the "food chain" in a country that their main GNP is based on High tech, Engineering and Sciences, he is a "nobody" she will forget about her North American standard of living and if this what she wants let her go already, you are your own worst enemy taking this kind of abuse from her.

When we were in our 30s, my kids were young, and my Kids Pediatric doctor at that time was a single rather handsome slightly older then us Doctor who took an extreme "interest" in my wife, he would cater for all my kids needs in a rather extreme fashion, he would open up his practice especially for my kids in after hours, for every little think my wife would ask, and would take her calls about my kids at every hour of the day..., 
very much like your wife mine is also from a medical background profession, and my wife quickly fell head over heels for him (although she had never admitted to that) , She has dated a med student for a long period of time before we've met and she has definitely a "weakness" to men in that profession

Well you can guess where this was going, my wife approached me one day "informing" me that the good doctor invited her to dinner she is going with him .

Let me tell you this, I got all the bullcrap about how they are just good friends and all that baloney, I shut it down right there and then, as I knew exactly where this was going, what I told her is very simple 

She is an adult and can make her own decision, she can go if she wants, I cannot hold her back or stop her to do what ever she wants, this doctor want to get in to her pants, he is single and is very attracted to her, I can see it, but if she goes, that will be the end of our marriage as I will not wait for her at home while she goes lamenting with another man, and I will file for divorce the next morning, she is free to do what she wants, and so do I. 

I got the full blown shenanigans from her, the "you are controlling and jealous" and " you are overbearing" and you are "not letting me have my own friends" 

I sat there saying nothing, let me tell you this, she said she is going, but eventually never went and never mentioned his name again, we have switched doctors the week after 


your wife will not be waking from this state of mind unless she will feel the pain for her decisions, she is an adult and she must face her decisions, you must make your stand in this once and for all as this will go on forever, as she is never going to look at you ever again as a romantic partner but a mere orbiter 

Wake up Steve, find some pride in yourself


----------



## changedbeliefs

thummper said:


> Hey, you can do better. There are women out there that would kill to land a good man like you. Your stbx will discover soon enough what an empty life she has chosen. Hope she suffers greatly for it!


Perfect example of vengefulness and vindictiveness. Do you even know the person you're addressing IRL? And your wish/declaration that the STBX have an empty life, and suffer greatly....does that really make you feel good to say that? You people are just awful sometimes, and all because you think the gap between people who have cheated, people who haven't, constitutes the definition of morality.


----------



## aug

changedbeliefs said:


> Perfect example of vengefulness and vindictiveness. Do you even know the person you're addressing IRL? And your wish/declaration that the STBX have an empty life, and suffer greatly....does that really make you feel good to say that? You people are just awful sometimes, and all because *you think the gap between people who have cheated, people who haven't, constitutes the definition of morality*.



And that's the definition of morality.


----------



## 10th Engineer Harrison

So this is your "plan" for when your WW got home from her THIRD trip 2 play with the OM?

I'm out, goddammit.

-ol' 2long


----------



## aug

2long said:


> So this is your "plan" for when your WW got home from her THIRD trip 2 play with the OM?
> 
> I'm out, goddammit.
> 
> -ol' 2long



He's okay with it (for now, I hope...)


----------



## Q tip

SteveK,

Simple... He read MMSLP knowing you haven't (won't/can't)


----------



## 3putt

changedbeliefs said:


> Perfect example of vengefulness and vindictiveness. Do you even know the person you're addressing IRL? And your wish/declaration that the STBX have an empty life, and suffer greatly....does that really make you feel good to say that? You people are just awful sometimes, and all because you think the gap between people who have cheated, people who haven't, constitutes the definition of morality.


If this doesn't reek of an entitled, self-righteous adulterer then I don't know what does.


----------



## russell28

changedbeliefs said:


> Perfect example of vengefulness and vindictiveness. Do you even know the person you're addressing IRL? And your wish/declaration that the STBX have an empty life, and suffer greatly....does that really make you feel good to say that? You people are just awful sometimes, and all because you think the gap between people who have cheated, people who haven't, constitutes the definition of morality.


I'm guessing you cheat since you aren't sure about the morality of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## staystrong

changedbeliefs said:


> Perfect example of vengefulness and vindictiveness. Do you even know the person you're addressing IRL? And your wish/declaration that the STBX have an empty life, and suffer greatly....does that really make you feel good to say that? You people are just awful sometimes, and all because you think the gap between people who have cheated, people who haven't, constitutes the definition of morality.


Come closer, there's something I want to show you.


----------



## X-B

What type of man chases married woman? A man with no fear of repercussions,morals etc. Today they know the law will protect them from most good ol beat-downs.


----------



## sidney2718

Pluto2 said:


> Chastising Steve for his conversation with WAW will only cause him to drop this thread and start again somewhere else. He does not like to hear the advice that is offered.


No. He just does not like hearing THAT advice because, as he's said many times, he's not about to follow that advice.


----------



## sidney2718

russell28 said:


> I'm guessing you cheat since you aren't sure about the morality of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's an absolutely uncalled for comment. I don't know *changedbeliefs* at all and I'd guess you don't either.


----------



## Pluto2

sidney2718 said:


> No. He just does not like hearing THAT advice because, as he's said many times, he's not about to follow that advice.


THAT advice on TAM has included: 
seek MC, seek IC, divorce, separate, do the 180, stay with her, leave her, stand up to her, keep your mouth shut, set boundaries, just be nice. 

I didn't specify, and you assumed.

What is undisputed, is that whenever any poster offers the advice that what he's doing will not accomplish the results he seeks, he leaves.


----------



## turnera

SteveK said:


> He says that every single post on all the Cheater sites were written by me, every email he gets every message he gets all were by me!!!!


For the 637th time...SO WHAT?


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



X-Betaman said:


> What type of man chases married woman? A man with no fear of repercussions,morals etc. Today they know the law will protect them from most good ol beat-downs.


in this case he doesn't even need the law to protect him from a beatdown.


----------



## russell28

sidney2718 said:


> That's an absolutely uncalled for comment. I don't know *changedbeliefs* at all and I'd guess you don't either.


I thought his comment was uncalled for.. and this one too, uncalled for.. welcome to the Internet.

I said "guessing"... so yea, I guess I don't... but I bet I'm right.


----------



## sidney2718

Pluto2 said:


> THAT advice on TAM has included:
> seek MC, seek IC, divorce, separate, do the 180, stay with her, leave her, stand up to her, keep your mouth shut, set boundaries, just be nice.
> 
> I didn't specify, and you assumed.
> 
> What is undisputed, is that whenever any poster offers the advice that what he's doing will not accomplish the results he seeks, he leaves.


When Steve arrived here he laid out his problem and asked for advice on how to save his marriage. He got the usual advice from most folks, including me. He made it very clear that he was not open to the usual advice.

He was always going to stay with her as best he could. He feels that for reasons he's not detailed, that that is his best chance. I've guessed that his reasons include his treatment of his wife *prior* to the advent of the other man. 

His strategy, such as it is, is to try to be a different Steve. So far he's been modestly successful in that she's not dumped him. And she's under serious pressure from the OM to dump him.

And no, it isn't really being a cake eater or anything like that, at least in my opinion. I see them as being co-dependent and strongly willful, and able to inflict great pain on each other. But that seems to be an environment in which they have thrived for about 30 years.

I recently posted on another thread involving Steve a list of other threads I've followed where the husband is also reluctant to take the standard advice. The short list is:

Lifescript's Journal in Private Member's Section.

Wife confessed, how to handle her "romps" with loverboy? in CWI

Are my WS's post-D-Day views of our marriage an affair fog side-effect? in CWI

Folks on those threads are generally not nearly as vicious to the BH as they are to SteveK. Perhaps it is his attitude? I don't know.


----------



## Lon

The TAM guys on those threads are in totally different situations than Steve.

What Steve seeks is advice on how to be a happy cuckold. Most of us on here don't want to give him such advice, either because we don't know or because we know but believe it would be wrong to.


----------



## sidney2718

Lon said:


> The TAM guys on those threads are in totally different situations than Steve.
> 
> What Steve seeks is advice on how to be a happy cuckold. Most of us on here don't want to give him such advice, either because we don't know or because we know but believe it would be wrong to.


OK. I can deal with that. But I don't think Steve can.


----------



## options20

so he's habitual at this? maybe he needs therapy I mean what does it mean to him? Why does he feel the need to do this?




SteveK said:


> In all seriousness, I think this is how he felt with all his other AP's. But with my wife I think he sees someone who can take care of him, all of the therapists any of us have seen even my sons, say that she is seduced by need. That this man is like a weak child. He plays the strong ex-soldier boy, but actaully as she said "hes a sweet guy". He is 54 years old a Tour Guide a supposed war hero in his country, and NEVER EVER NEVER has found the right woman.
> 
> Our MC believes that he had this Theoretical Cube and all the features of the woman had to fit this cube or he would not commit himself.
> 
> My wife fell into that cube. IT covers everything from looks to intelligence etc...
> 
> He also I believe goggled my last name. My Surname is not very popular. There is a branch of my family on our family tree that makes the Trumps look poor and weak. The truth is...they are on the family tree, I am less connected to them financially then I am connected to the coyote that ripped up my garbage last night!
> But he does not believe that.


----------



## jld

And he was your teacher, Mrs. Adams. There was a power differential, and he took advantage of it.

I am glad to see that you are angry with him.


----------



## jld

I don't know where it is, but someone posted recently about a man who targets married women. He picks them because it is unlikely they will leave their husbands. He said that just for a few compliments and a bit of attention, he gets free sex.

I have a lot of sympathy for you, Mrs. Adams. I may not have explained that very well. I know you were married, and I know you regret it now. But I don't see you as harshly as you see yourself, I think.

That guy was a creep, MJA. A loser. Totally selfish. And there you were, naive, telling your husband you would have left him if the other guy had wanted you to. Totally naive. 

And loser dude finally got busted by another gal (or was it her husband?) Hallelujah.

Mr. Adams, did you ever think about talking to the teacher?


----------



## manticore

Mrs. John Adams said:


> and yet he pursued me...why? why? why?


not trying to be mean here, just truthful.

because for these men, the ultimate thrill is conquering loyal wives.

In the 8 years I have been lurking, I have also visited player sites. You have to be a special kind of [email protected] to
have this men's mentality, they really think nothing about the husbands or kids of the married women they bed, in fact they relieve their conscience putting all the blame on the woman who accept their advances.

As you said, normally they are good looking narcisist socipaths who since teenegers have dated pretty girls, so to intensify the thrill of their "power" they seek to conquest women who are already taken, some even literally brag how they go after women who openly prey about morality and family values bacause having a prude betraying their morals for them gives them the ultimate feeling of conquest, others go after the wives of husbands who brags about having good marriage and having the perfect wife and family, why? because taking his pefect loyal wife from these men gives them the sense of superiority (another source of thrill).

trying to understand their mentallity is useless, because to be able to do what they do, they just destroy any sense of emphaty in themselves, once they acchive their target they go to the next one and forget their last conquest, if anything they jus try to do damage control trying to avoid the woman ratting them after thay are done.

that is why I am a firm believer of endorsing consequences in these sort of persons, as they just care about themselves the only way to make them stop their bahaviour is forcing them to feel the consequence of their actions, to understand that for any action is a proprotional reaction, otherwise they would never stop.


----------



## jld

Manticore, were you the one who posted that piece about the guy who targets married women? Could you repost it here?


----------



## manticore

not but you are probably talking about "findingmyway", the one who probably posted him was chaparral, I saw his post for first time quoted by him some time ago.

here on TAM there have been two marital predators, one was "findingmyway" the other was the "bishop".


----------



## Lon

What does any of this have to do with Steve's W's OM? He is not some smooth player that needed the challenge of conquering a loyal spouses devotion to her morals. In this case Steve's W has tossed all morals aside. The OM continues because he likely gets a kick out of seeing a man so emasculated because of something he caused. The OM is power tripping, not because Steve's wife is such a great catch but because he gets something out of it for no serious risk because he has no shame about his actions, just the opposite. Steve's W is so far past the point of being duped and enamored, she too is getting the same thrill by emasculating Steve as her paramour is. That is why they are drawn to each other, not because god lead them to each other but because neither has shame and both get a kick out of seeing how pathetic her H is, and how much abuse he can continue to take. Any person that can put their so called spouse what she is putting Steve through is, IMO, a psychopath.


----------



## manticore

Lon said:


> What does any of this have to do with Steve's W's OM?


this have nothing to do with Steve's OM, he asked about men who chases married women.

if he fits in the profile of what have been described in this thread is becuase many men who had this degenerated bahaviour share some personality features. but is not specifically about steve's OM (even if he asked the question to understand his own OM)


----------



## WyshIknew

jld said:


> I don't know where it is, but someone posted recently about a man who targets married women. He picks them because it is unlikely they will leave their husbands. He said that just for a few compliments and a bit of attention, he gets free sex.
> 
> I have a lot of sympathy for you, Mrs. Adams. I may not have explained that very well. I know you were married, and I know you regret it now. But I don't see you as harshly as you see yourself, I think.
> 
> That guy was a creep, MJA. A loser. Totally selfish. And there you were, naive, telling your husband you would have left him if the other guy had wanted you to. Totally naive.
> 
> And loser dude finally got busted by another gal (or was it her husband?) Hallelujah.
> 
> Mr. Adams, did you ever think about talking to the teacher?


This has been discussed many times here.

As Manticore has said some of them just get off on the 'thrill' of taking somebody elses wife.

The wife is less likely to harbour any sexual diseases, often there are no condoms or other birth control used. This works with either sex.

Regarding the above there is a ready made unsuspecting hapless mug to raise any children should they get her pregnant.

The wife usually does not want or can't be seen to be in a relationship (hence in MrsJA's case he took her back to his apartment rather than 'out' as planned, he knew better than to advertise the affair such as it was around town) so once the first conquest is out of the way it is just no strings attached sex, no bothering about costly restaurant meals etc.

He knows they aren't going to leave their husband, they can't afford to be clingy. So he feels horny, phones her up, they meet have nookie and they each go home. Job done, his sac is emptied. Must be nice to be regarded as a sperm receptacle.


----------



## Dyokemm

"That's an absolutely uncalled for comment. I don't know changedbeliefs at all and I'd guess you don't either."

No..we don't know him...but if you read the one thread he started he is definitely a cheater.


----------



## jld

Mrs. John Adams said:


> JLD...Mr adams not only thought about TALKING to the teacher...he thought about killing him...very slowly...inch by inch


What stopped him? 

I am not saying he should have, btw. Just curious as to why he did not confront him, as many men here seem to advocate.


----------



## Dyokemm

"As Manticore has said some of them just get off on the 'thrill' of taking somebody elses wife."

This is why I think there is an aspect to an A that really has nothing to do with the WW.

Some POS has just decided to f*ck with a BH's family and entire life because in some screwed up way, he thinks it makes him a better man.

That's why I believe a BH should retaliate and f*ck up the OM's life in every way he can get away with in return, regardless of what he decides to do with his WW.

POS needs to be taught the lesson that there is a price to be paid for messing with another man's life (and kids if he has any).


----------



## arbitrator

*You're totally right, Dyokemm! It not only denigrates the marital relationship itself, it greatly serves to lay sheer waste to an entire family unit.

But ultimately, I'd have to say that the WS has total "veto power" over the illicit proposal of the initiating philanderer. 

It is theirs to fully exercise, since they have ownership rights to the marriage!*


----------



## SteveK

Dyokemm said:


> "As Manticore has said some of them just get off on the 'thrill' of taking somebody elses wife."
> 
> This is why I think there is an aspect to an A that really has nothing to do with the WW.
> 
> Some POS has just decided to f*ck with a BH's family and entire life because in some screwed up way, he thinks it makes him a better man.
> 
> That's why I believe a BH should retaliate and f*ck up the OM's life in every way he can get away with in return, regardless of what he decides to do with his WW.
> 
> POS needs to be taught the lesson that there is a price to be paid for messing with another man's life (and kids if he has any).


I agree with you 100% here! no 200%.

You see first of all the guy I am dealing with WAS a decorated hero in the IDF. But he was injured, then he got fat out of shape and diabetic etc. He was no longer the thrill seeker of his youth. 

Most of the Time the men in his his unit ended up in Israeli politics or in positions of power in high level technology companies. ( Benjamin
netayanho for example) He, well he became a tour guide. He explains this because he says he loves his country and faith and wants to spread the word, no he is a lazy a$$ he only works half the year and spends the rest mooching off of people from his tours!

Anyhow, he seems to visit with the family's with fairly attractive professional wives, he comes to visit, scopes out his surroundings and figures hey they have quite a lot of Shekels in this family.

He also starts to become " friends" with the wife, tells them they are soul cousins, listens to their problems tells them their husbands are losers, predators, perverts, whatever he can throw at them.

HE PROMISES THIS LIFE OF TRAVEL AND PLEASURE AND FREE SPIRT, HE TELLS THEM ITS A REBIRTH....HE IS RESCUING THEM FROM THEIR MARRIAGE..OH AND HE WOULD BE A BETTER DAD TO THEIR CHILDREN!

Then you actually hear from your WS that this guy has been looking his entire life for the right woman all those others meant nothing...I am the one...he sees with his heart and takes what he wants....

Then the op (me for instance) talks with some of the husbands and guess what the belief is...he for some reason thinks he deserves what you have...wow if I can get the wife of this highly successful Alpha male ( in his work life , maybe not marriage), wow the thrill wow I have won another battle.

Well when these relationships fail he crawls back begging for forgiveness from his common law wife. She finally meets another guy and throws the Schmkk out! Now he has no one, but

He has honed his skills, like a salesman, he knows what works, he knows the type of woman who have rejected him..he is now the a#1 predator, the Shark ( as MC refers to him) he is an Apex Predator...

And your id-e-ot. Spouse ( wife) is either to Narccisitic or to self righteous , or maybe it's a cry for help...to see it...

And guess what your family is destroyed, your sons are devastated and eventually the shark seeks out younger healthier pray, and this woman becomes a shell of her former self!


I hope the Palestinians launch a rocket that hits him right on that hollow head!


----------



## ironman

It's the oldest story in the book and it applies to men and women equally, what type of person chases married people???

*people covet that which they do not have ....*


It has always been that way and it always will be.


Now if you caught someone pursuing your spouse I can certainly understand the desire to destroy them (I know I would) ...as they "stole" from you. But all too often these people become the sole focus and scapegoat for everything that is/was wrong in the marriage for the BS. It's the WS who lacks self-control and/or empathy that is always the true villain. WS just don't want to take personal responsibility ... and the BS don't want to believe it (denial). 

and the world keeps turning ....


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sidney2718 said:


> When Steve arrived here he laid out his problem and asked for advice on how to save his marriage.


Yes and he even drove away the reconciliation crowd except you. I have NEVER seen that happen, EVER, so your history rewrite is very interesting. He didn't want to take any advice, he wanted to vent, do things his way and likes the drama.


----------



## Lon

I think you guys are giving the POSOMs way too much credit over the power they have to destroy marriages.

If they genuinely are as good at being predators as you all say, or that you were so vulnerable to them, then you were indeed victimized just as a victim of sexual assault. That would absolve you of blame, so half-attempts at accepting the responsibilty for your choice would only be destructive to your self worth.

Or if you still accept full responsibility then it means you were not in fact a victim, in which case who cares about justice for the OM, if you reconcile you choose to leave them out of your life.

When I found the texts on my ex W's phone with the OM du jour, I texted and wrote that he was a piece of sh!t and he deserves her. And I meant it, and ever since I havent given a thought about him. In my mind I did visualize that if I ever found him near my son I would beat him to a pulp, but I honestly don't care what happens to him as long as he is out of my life. If my ex had stopped her affair and wanted to reconcile one major boundary I would have had is that she accept complete and full responsibility for her actions, which would mean that she wouldn't even have the victim card in her toolbox to pull out.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Do you understand...we have suffered 30 years...and this man suffered not one second..hell is too good for him
> He could have pursued anyone...why did he pursue me? in my total stupidity....I allowed this to happen. It is my fault...i made the decision to cheat...but oh my god....where's the justice? This man knew exactly what he was doing...you wanna talk about scum...he is pond scum.
> 
> I absolutely hate him...I hope he suffers just one ounce of the pain my husband has suffered.
> 
> I do not want anyone to misunderstand me...I made the decision...i am to blame...but oh my god...he could have pursued so many unattached young ladies...and yet he pursued me...why? why? why?


As far as I'm concerned, your OM is almost a saint compared to POSs we see here. He politely asked, he got what he wanted, he moved on. What if he had liked what he got and wanted more of it? All he had to do for the ONS was offer you a ride. It wouldn't have been much difficult for him to make it an LTA.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



Mrs. John Adams said:


> I do not want anyone to misunderstand me...I made the decision...i am to blame...but oh my god...he could have pursued so many unattached young ladies...and yet he pursued me...why? why? why?


He was pursuing other women both attached and unattached. He played the numbers game and found a willing target that so happened to be attached.


----------



## manticore

Lon said:


> I think you guys are giving the POSOMs way too much credit over the power they have to destroy marriages.


No Lon, I think you are interpreting it wrong, We/I am not giving credit these men as if they are semigods and everybody is incapable of stopping them, I have say many times that practically any (average man) man can become a marital predator like these scumbags, but of course it requires to be a complete POS without emphaty or real love for nobody but yourself (psycopath).

what I am doing is recognizing the existence of these twisted people who enjoyement is at expense of others, unfortunatly their bahaviour while it is destructive and atrocious in our society are not ilegal, let me be a Little extreme here a make some exagerated comparations.

- serial killers (that enjoy taking lives of human beings, whose thrill is the power of extinguish a light, they don't care at all for their victims or victim's family).

- serial rapist (that enjoy the dominance and brutallity of the power they feel by taking a woman by force, they don't care at all for their victims or victim's family)

of course I don't mean to say the acts that serial killers and serial rapist do is as bad as what a OM serial cheater who also is a marital predator do, but the nature of of they twisted thrill have the same origin (the overpowering of someone else, the unaware BH, or the naive WW who thinks this man loves her while is bragging wit his Pals destroying her and hers family reputation), and they also don't give a dime of all the families they have affected with their actions, as I have said before and I mean it, that you need to be a psychopath or sociopath (for those who doesn't know, not all psycopaths are murderers, studies argue that 1 in every 100 humans are psycopaths and most of them lead all regular lives without having problems with the law) to do waht these men do.

of course LON, not all OM have the same nature, there are OM like the user "PastOM" in whose case the WS was the agressor, and he felt for her, he has never been an OM before and he wanted to marry her and take care of her kids and even was worried about the psique of the BH, in the end he realized he was played and all waht the WW told him was BS and she send him a NC letter, and he lost his JOB, his health, his emtional stability.

there are many kinds of OMs, and many circumstances, but these last pages we were talking about the OMs that have slept with many married women and how to deal with them.

this specific sort of OM need to feel consequences to stop their damaging beahviour to society and famalies.


----------



## manticore

WhiteRaven said:


> As far as I'm concerned, your OM is almost a saint compared to POSs we see here. He politely asked, he got what he wanted, he moved on. What if he had liked what he got and wanted more of it? All he had to do for the ONS was offer you a ride. It wouldn't have been much difficult for him to make it an LTA.





Lon said:


> He was pursuing other women both attached and unattached. He played the numbers game and found a willing target that so happened to be attached.


let me quote something of user "findimgmyway" to relate this situation.



*"The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason."*


even if it was a one time encounter it was still part of his whole dynamic, that does not change the nature of the OM behind the action, but he probably had some safer targets that a married student of his, which in the end could have been damaging for his career and reputation in the university.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



manticore said:


> there are many kinds of OMs, and many circumstances, but these last pages we were talking about the OMs that have slept with many married women and how to deal with them.
> 
> this specific sort of OM need to feel consequences to stop their damaging beahviour to society and famalies.


how to deal with them? don't.

the consequences is that people with morals and strong boundaries will not associate with them, and those scum will surround themselves with other lousy people. that sort of OM needs nothing from me, it's only when society tries to make it better for them that damages start to happen. when we accommodate poor behaviors, or glorify them such is all too common in mainstream society, well then we reap what we sow. the only one way to make life better for everyone is to nurture behaviors that are good.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Mrs. John Adams said:


> If you mean a ride in the car....that did not happen...and I am not sure how he politely asked? Since we were supposed to go to lunch....and sex was not the plan...well...it was not MY plan...and *every OM is a pos..including this one and a saint he isn't...please don't make me vomit...*
> 
> and I do my best not to speculate on things....some people here like to do that....and it proves nothing, or solves nothing and the only thing it accomplishes is that it makes me feel bad...and since I do my best to try to avoid feeling bad...I would rather you did not speculate about MY affair either.
> 
> I don't mean to sound like a bltch...but it is one of those things that truly annoys me. I hate it when others try to put a slant on my story that just is not true. You know I have tried to be completely honest so if there is no need to rewrite my story. It is bad enough on its own...it doesn't need help from anyone else.


Of course he is POS. I'm not speculating what happened but what could have happened. All I say is things could have been a lot worse if the OM would have decided to string you along.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Lon said:


> how to deal with them? don't.
> 
> the consequences is that people with morals and strong boundaries will not associate with them, and those scum will surround themselves with other lousy people. that sort of OM needs nothing from me, it's only when society tries to make it better for them that damages start to happen. when we accommodate poor behaviors, or glorify them such is all too common in mainstream society, well then we reap what we sow. the only one way to make life better for everyone is to nurture behaviors that are good.


My xWW's OM had 7 As before destroying my marriage. Those 7 BSs decided not to deal with it. 

Think about it.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



WhiteRaven said:


> My xWW's OM had 7 As before destroying my marriage. Those 7 BSs decided not to deal with it.
> 
> Think about it.


in all those cases, that OM had not made a vow to the cheating wives. the only ones breaking any vows were those women, and believe me those BH's dealt with it as best they knew how.


----------



## manticore

Lon said:


> how to deal with them? don't.
> 
> the consequences is that people with morals and strong boundaries will not associate with them, and those scum will surround themselves with other lousy people. that sort of OM needs nothing from me, it's only when society tries to make it better for them that damages start to happen. when we accommodate poor behaviors, or glorify them such is all too common in mainstream society, well then we reap what we sow. the only one way to make life better for everyone is to nurture behaviors that are good.


Dude really?

I am going to sound harsh but this just show your ignorance in the subject,

do you think they go with a sign in their forehead that says *"I am a scumbag that loves to sleep with married women, and if you put attention to me you are doomed, I will destroy your family, your reputation to get my thrill, I will lie and manipulate as much as needed to get what I want"*.

let me quote again "findingmyway"

*"If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score."*

"Bishop" also used similar techniques, *they have been years mastering their methods to hide their true nature*, "findingmyway" for what he related had slept with around over 15 married woman, I have read of some with numbers as high as over 40 in many decades, "bishop" was minor ligue because he enjoyed long term affairs he had just 8 in his belt.

that is the Importance of exposure and consequences, if you expose these sort of creatures, with resources as cheaterville, in their FB, in their JOb and other events and gatherings where he participates, you are just not just seeking retribution, you are also warning other husbands that may belive that he is a good harmless guy around their wives.

the perfect example was user "RTBP", his OM have been sleeping with married women for decades without consequences, if he have done as you suggest, his OM would be still sleeping with married women after he was done with his, instead, he wrecked his life, exposed him to everybody (family, friends, wife), made him lose his job, made his lose his wife, made him lose his reputation, the respect his kids had for him, and now a year later the guy was in a rehabilitation group trying to amend his worng doings (sort like AA) after 30 years of destroying families.

but if he had follewed your advice, then instead he would be still destroying other people's families, with his high profile job and his clean reputation, happily married to his BW while doing it.


----------



## The Middleman

Lon said:


> He was pursuing other women both attached and unattached. He played the numbers game and found a willing target that so happened to be attached.


Exactly. In the end the WW gave her consent which makes her 110% at fault. Is the OM a POS? Absolutly. Should he receive some form of punishment? Absolutly. Is he to blame? Nope.

Wanting revenge on the POSOM without inflicting some sort of revenge on the WW is misdirected anger.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Lon said:


> in all those cases, that OM had not made a vow to the cheating wives. the only ones breaking any vows were those women, and believe me those BH's dealt with it as best they knew how.


:banghead:

Um.... are you for real?


----------



## SteveK

ironman said:


> It's the oldest story in the book and it applies to men and women equally, what type of person chases married people???
> 
> *people covet that which they do not have ....*
> 
> 
> It has always been that way and it always will be.
> 
> 
> Now if you caught someone pursuing your spouse I can certainly understand the desire to destroy them (I know I would) ...as they "stole" from you. But all too often these people become the sole focus and scapegoat for everything that is/was wrong in the marriage for the BS. It's the WS who lacks self-control and/or empathy that is always the true villain. WS just don't want to take personal responsibility ... and the BS don't want to believe it (denial).
> 
> and the world keeps turning ....


I agree! To this very second all I get is " I handled it wrong I should have done it different"

But when I say infidelity is wrong I get so is this so is that...you pushed me into it it was a cry for help, and my kids hate me because you told them to.


----------



## jld

Mrs. John Adams said:


> If you mean a ride in the car....that did not happen...and I am not sure how he politely asked? Since we were supposed to go to lunch....and sex was not the plan...well...*it was not MY plan.*..and every OM is a pos..including this one and a saint he isn't...please don't make me vomit...


He used you. That was his plan. I bet it hardly crossed his mind after that. 

I don't think his conscience bothered him at all. He may not even have a conscience.

But you and your husband have suffered the consequences for 30 years.

You are right that it is not fair. 

But it can help people to know your story. It warns them of the dangers.


----------



## turnera

So what? That's called a consequence for choosing a POSOM over your own children. Just keep repeating that to her.


----------



## WhiteRaven

SteveK said:


> I agree! To this very second all I get is " I handled it wrong I should have done it different"
> 
> But when I say infidelity is wrong I get so is this so is that...you pushed me into it it was a cry for help, and my kids hate me because you told them to.


She is right. You are the bad guy. You'll always be the bad guy. She'll always be right. There is nothing you can do to be good. So, go downright evil.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



manticore said:


> Dude really?
> 
> I am going to sound harsh but this just show your ignorance in the subject,
> 
> do you think they go with a sign in their forehead that says *"I am a scumbag that loves to sleep with married women, and if you put attention to me you are doomed, I will destroy your family, your reputation to get my thrill, I will lie and manipulate as much as needed to get what I want"*.
> 
> let me quote again "findingmyway"
> 
> *"If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score."*
> 
> "Bishop" also used similar techniques, *they have been years mastering their methods to hide their true nature*, "findingmyway" for what he related had slept with around over 15 married woman, I have read of some with numbers as high as over 40 in many decades, "bishop" was minor ligue because he enjoyed long term affairs he had just 8 in his belt.
> 
> that is the Importance of exposure and consequences, if you expose these sort of creatures, with resources as cheaterville, in their FB, in their JOb and other events and gatherings where he participates, you are just not just seeking retribution, you are also warning other husbands that may belive that he is a good harmless guy around their wives.
> 
> the perfect example was user "RTBP", his OM have been sleeping with married women for decades without consequences, if he have done as you suggest, his OM would be still sleeping with married women after he was done with his, instead, he wrecked his life, exposed him to everybody (family, friends, wife), made him lose his job, made his lose his wife, made him lose his reputation, the respect his kids had for him, and now a year later the guy was in a rehabilitation group trying to amend his worng doings (sort like AA) after 30 years of destroying families.
> 
> but if he had follewed your advice, then instead he would be still destroying other people's families, with his high profile job and his clean reputation, happily married to his BW while doing it.


I absolutely agree with exposure. but I am not going to waste my life, spending years or months of effort to correct someone that deliberately doesn't want to be corrected. my responsibility was never to the OM's future victims, they are far beyond the circle of my protection. I absolutely do not tolerate that kind of behavior from ANYONE, not my most hated enemy, not some stranger, not my closest friends and not even family. I can still love the person but hate the behavior.

I will not hesitate to speak the truth, but my goal is never to destroy someone, it's only ever because the truth is important to me, and I will not stand for someone disrespecting me, and that includes the people I choose to include in my life. and if my actions help prevent someone in the future from falling prey to some player, then great, however that is not doing anything to help some cheating W's marriage to be better or help her loyal H learn how to identify and enforce his boundaries.

what is the point of culling all the players? so that entitled girls can go have more GNOs with reckless abandonment for their marital boundaries? I guess I am not capable of blame shifting like you are. if an alcoholic chooses to down a bottle of Jack Daniels do I go after the distillers of that particular Tennessee whiskey? if a H has a porn addiction is the answer exposing to everyone I know just how immoral those porn stars are?

A cheating spouse cheats because they want/wanted to. it was not "a" decision or a mistake, it was curiosity and interest. if they were coerced it is because they allowed themselves to be. 100%.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



The Middleman said:


> Exactly. In the end the WW gave her consent which makes her 110% at fault. Is the OM a POS? Absolutly. Should he receive some form of punishment? Absolutly. Is he to blame? Nope.
> 
> Wanting revenge on the POSOM without inflicting some sort of revenge on the WW is misdirected anger.


how much effort do YOU want to go to to punish him? at what further cost to you will you allow it to escalate to? will you wage an all out war in order to make sure justice is served? every action you take has an opportunity cost, so by pursuing punishment of the OM is there a greater ROI to you than if you simply share the facts you know with anyone it is relevant to and walk away to work at restoring your marriage and/or your own self esteem?


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



jld said:


> He used you. That was his plan. I bet it hardly crossed his mind after that.
> 
> I don't think his conscience bothered him at all. He may not even have a conscience.
> 
> But you and your husband have suffered the consequences for 30 years.
> 
> You are right that it is not fair.
> 
> But it can help people to know your story. It warns them of the dangers.


Mrs. JA, without sounding too judgemental or presumptuous, I am curious why this event had caused you suffering for 30 years? Do you think you ever truly "reconciled" the truth about this with Mr. JA and used it as an experience to improve your marriage? or do you both just see it as a blemish to be shameful of but both decided to stay married and live with? I wonder why you think the old OM got off scot-free but you have suffered ever since? you reconciled. he too lives with his choices in life, how do you know that in fact he is not the one that has suffered his poor life and you have been the blessed one?


----------



## SteveK

Lon said:


> how to deal with them? don't.
> 
> the consequences is that people with morals and strong boundaries will not associate with them, and those scum will surround themselves with other lousy people. that sort of OM needs nothing from me, it's only when society tries to make it better for them that damages start to happen. when we accommodate poor behaviors, or glorify them such is all too common in mainstream society, well then we reap what we sow. the only one way to make life better for everyone is to nurture behaviors that are good.



Lon is so correct here. You befriend people similar to yourself. 

The pos my wife ran off with had an entire henhouse of supporters.m he brought my wife for the Passover Seder to friends, who celebrated their relationship at a Jewish Community center. They were called up to the Holy Scriptures to read together, which is a huge blessing...all while all of these people knew my wife had two so s and a husband spending the holiday without her.

And when confronted by me, I was the evil SON, I was the sicko stalking brute who Was accusing these harlots of being disgusting pigs.

Well guess what they have been doing things behind the scenes to make me look bad to my WS, but she was to smart for that and has begun to see the big picture. She is even realizing that her POSOM will put his friends before her...


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



SteveK said:


> Lon is so correct here. You befriend people similar to yourself.
> 
> The pos my wife ran off with had an entire henhouse of supporters.m he brought my wife for the Passover Seder to friends, who celebrated their relationship at a Jewish Community center. They were called up to the Holy Scriptures to read together, which is a huge blessing...all while all of these people knew my wife had two so s and a husband spending the holiday without her.
> 
> And when confronted by me, I was the evil SON, I was the sicko stalking brute who Was accusing these harlots of being disgusting pigs.
> 
> Well guess what they have been doing things behind the scenes to make me look bad to my WS, but she was to smart for that and has begun to see the big picture. She is even realizing that her POSOM will put his friends before her...


yes, like attracts like, which is why everyone on your other threads is telling you to take her off the pedestal and see her for who she is frantically trying to show you who she is. she is not a victim, she is choosing him, the sick, morally reprehensible person he is. the sooner you let her go, in fact push her out, the sooner you will be free from that toxicity in you and your sons' life.


----------



## sidney2718

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes and he even drove away the reconciliation crowd except you. I have NEVER seen that happen, EVER, so your history rewrite is very interesting. He didn't want to take any advice, he wanted to vent, do things his way and likes the drama.


I'm not going to argue with you but Steve did NOT drive everybody away. What happened is that the sharks drove people away. Most of the conversation with Steve moved to private mail. But he does have friends and I count myself one of them.

What I don't understand is your rage against Steve. If his story bores you, go read Lifescript's story in the member's section.


----------



## sidney2718

SteveK said:


> I agree! To this very second all I get is " I handled it wrong I should have done it different"
> 
> But when I say infidelity is wrong I get so is this so is that...you pushed me into it it was a cry for help, and my kids hate me because you told them to.


We are all much more fragile on the inside than we show on the outside. If your wife had taken the responsibility all on her own, it might well have destroyed her. People have been known to attempt (and sometimes succeed) suicide in such cases.

In practically every case we see, there is blame shifting. It seems strange but something as physically enjoyable as a PA can cause such pain.

Can such a marriage be saved? Yes it can. But saving it is different than divorce. Anyone can divorce for any reason (in most states), but reconciliation requires the buy-in of both parties. And here the past does come into play. If there were things that one spouse did to the other those things need to be fixed. It is not a question of who is at fault, it is that one is trying to reconstruct a new marriage out of the ruins of the old one.

I think Mrs. JA would agree that her marriage today is not only much better than is was before, but that it isn't the same marriage at all. It is a better one and both she and Mr. JA had to change for that to happen.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



sidney2718 said:


> I think Mrs. JA would agree that her marriage today is not only much better than is was before, but that it isn't the same marriage at all. It is a better one and both she and Mr. JA had to change for that to happen.


agreed. both parties have to change in order to make a reconciliation of their differences happen.

if either party doesn't ever make any changes towards that, it can't happen. nor can either party make the other one change or repair things unilaterally.


----------



## MattMatt

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes and he even drove away the reconciliation crowd except you. I have NEVER seen that happen, EVER, so your history rewrite is very interesting. He didn't want to take any advice, he wanted to vent, do things his way and likes the drama.


Excuse me, Steve did not drive me away.


----------



## MattMatt

Lon said:


> I think you guys are giving the POSOMs way too much credit over the power they have to destroy marriages.
> 
> If they genuinely are as good at being predators as you all say, or that you were so vulnerable to them, then you were indeed victimized just as a victim of sexual assault. That would absolve you of blame, so half-attempts at accepting the responsibilty for your choice would only be destructive to your self worth.
> 
> Or if you still accept full responsibility then it means you were not in fact a victim, in which case who cares about justice for the OM, if you reconcile you choose to leave them out of your life.
> 
> When I found the texts on my ex W's phone with the OM du jour, I texted and wrote that he was a piece of sh!t and he deserves her. And I meant it, and ever since I havent given a thought about him. In my mind I did visualize that if I ever found him near my son I would beat him to a pulp, but I honestly don't care what happens to him as long as he is out of my life. If my ex had stopped her affair and wanted to reconcile one major boundary I would have had is that she accept complete and full responsibility for her actions, which would mean that she wouldn't even have the victim card in her toolbox to pull out.


See, this is why they had Alienation of Affection laws.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



MattMatt said:


> See, this is why they had Alienation of Affection laws.


a few states still do.  and if any BS lives in a state that has such laws it might be a good idea to pursue it. yet another reason to lawyer up when your spouse cheats or walks.


----------



## sidney2718

Lon said:


> a few states still do. and if any BS lives in a state that has such laws it might be a good idea to pursue it. yet another reason to lawyer up when your spouse cheats or walks.


I think that not consulting a lawyer right away is the biggest mistake that folks make. Many are concerned with finding evidence of adultery that will convince a judge when that doesn't matter at all in a no fault state.

So it really is the very first thing that should be done.

The next thing is to NOT do anything serious for at least a couple of days. The BS is often in shock at the start and can't make good decisions. The damage is already done. Another couple of days won't make much difference.

Beyond that, every case is different.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



Mrs. John Adams said:


> He suffered because he took me to bed? He was single....no repercussions for him at all.
> 
> I was married...it nearly destroyed my marriage...and my husband has suffered all these years.... i have also suffered from the guilt of what i did.
> 
> While we have reconciled and our marriage is very solid and very blessed....it will forever be scarred from my affair. Reconciliation does not mean that is goes away never to haunt you again...i could only WISH that would happen...


 then wouldn't you both have had much less suffering if you divorced? or is that the point of marriage, to suffer though your spouses mistakes forever? I thought marriage was about blessings, and the joy of sharing your time on earth together? if we all suffered forever because of bad things we have done in the past, what is the point of living? do you not think that, for you and Mr. JA, there was a lesson from that? a hard earned lesson that made your lives overall better together?

for myself, the decision to R or D was not one I had before me, but when I came to acceptance I decided that it was time to move forward and work towards forgiving my ex and her AP's. it does me no good to hate anyone or anything persistently. I do not want to suffer for 30 years because of a stupid action by some else all those decades ago.

I suppose it takes all types to make the world go around, and if you and your H click together and make it work the way you both want and need then that is what ultimately matters. for me personally I will never get peace if I'm holding a grudge that will never go away. yes some scuz buckets had sex with my ex W when I was married to her, it was by far the most painful thing I could ever go through. But it's in the past and I learned a valuable lesson from it.


----------



## jld

MJA, did you or your husband ever think about reporting him to the school?


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



Mrs. John Adams said:


> no...we would not have less suffering if we divorced....we love each other and want to be together. We are very happy. We are in a very good place.


so then it seems the repercussions for forgiveness and reconciliation after your affair is not so bad then. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but it was worth it. as for the OM, he maybe had it easy but I doubt much in his life is worthwhile.


----------



## jld

Lon said:


> so then it seems the repercussions for forgiveness and reconciliation after your affair is not so bad then. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but it was worth it. *as for the OM, he maybe had it easy but I doubt much in his life is worthwhile.*


I think that is true. There may be some justice after all, MJA.


----------



## Stevenj

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Jld...this was thirty years ago...times were very different. I don't think it was against school policy in those days...and remember...i was 28 not 18 like most of the girls at the school...so no we did not think about reporting him to the school.
> 
> However I do draw some comfort in knowing that years later...mr professor...was released from a contract by a buy out from the alumni of the college....for personal reasons. I have a feeling he screwed the wrong woman....maybe the deans daughter or wife?
> 
> Lon...my marriage to my husband ...my relationship with this man...has been worth every second we have worked and struggled to make this relationship work...absolutely. We have lived through it...and we have achieved forgiveness and reconciliation.
> 
> As for Mr. Professor....I don't know and I don't care...may he rot in hell. I realize that is not very Christian...I am being brutally honest.


What did he teach?


----------



## WyshIknew

Stevenj said:


> What did he teach?


Sex Ed?


----------



## WyshIknew

Mrs. John Adams said:


> yeah wysh...I took a class in sex ed


Sorry Mrs JA, bad joke, just couldn't help myself!


----------



## TRy

SteveK said:


> She keeps coming back to live with me!
> 
> She tells me we cant share the bed, then finds an excuse for me to sleep in it...( I do, but i put a large body pillow between us)


 Why do you let her come back to you? Why do you let her share your bed? She is confirming that she can have you back anytime that she wants you. That you will let her have her fun and explore a relationship with the other man, with the full knowledge that she is risking nothing. With nothing to lose, why would she even think to end the affair?


----------



## WhiteRaven

Mrs. John Adams said:


> yeah wysh...I took a class in sex ed


Sadly, you did. 

Stop losing sleep over the OM. All you'd get is health problems. 23 years ago, my mom had to give a burglar the lead treatment. It was a kid. I remember her holding me so I couldn't stare at the body. It took her years to get over whys, whats, hows. She moved on coz we needed her. Mr JA needs you. Kindly stop wallowing in self-pity. 

Along the way you may step on sh*t. If you stand still, sh*t won't get off. Keep moving, the road will take care of it.

You are as old as my mom. So it's really not my place to tell you what and what not to do. It's not pleasant to see you put your A details in almost every thread tempting us angry BSs to take you apart. Could you please stop doing it? Just a request.


----------



## TRy

SteveK said:


> I did not ask for this.
> 
> When she first came home for some reason she asked me whats the normal size.
> 
> I said I dont know I dont walk around measuring
> 
> she said hes over 6'2" tall and he reminded me of the boys when they were kids!!


 The fact that she would have this conversation with you shows that she has gotten you to accept that she is having sex with the other as if it were a normal thing. The fact that you participated in the conversion, confirms that you have accepted this. This also shows that she as no respect for you at all. 




SteveK said:


> so I said, " after that he twisted your arm?" (she injured her shoulder claiming she slipped in the shower)
> 
> This time she came home with a huge bruise on her Buttocks that looks like a kick and scrapes down her leg!
> 
> She told me that they were hiking and she slipped . Two days latter I asked her, "When did you tell him that you wanted to keep the relationship plutonic for now until you got your head straight?" She says while we where hiking.


 This violence is very wrong, yet she accepts this from him because as sick as it sounds, she respects him.

She cannot love someone that she does not respect. You are such a weak person to her right now, and the other man is such a strong man to her, there is no way that she can resist the other man unless the dynamic of the situation change. You must in your mind move on. Stop trying to keep the marraige together. Ask her to move out. Cut off all contact with her. Go the full 180. Tell her that marriage is over and mean it. Tell her that even if she dumps the other man, that you have lost all respect for her as person and that you need to find someone worthy of growing old with you. She will try to test getting you back to see if she still has you as a back up plan. Do not take her back unless over time she earns the right by hard work and action. The best way to save your marraige is to be willing to really end it. At this point the odds are not on your side, but they are the only odds that you have. Stop being weak and man up.


----------



## WhiteRaven

Mrs. John Adams said:


> White Raven...i lose no sleep over the om...i never think about him unless i am reading something on tam or answering questions on tam. He does not deserve one second of my time.
> 
> i got your message loud and clear.


Thank you. Not apologizing for the rude morning wake-up post.


----------



## Philat

WyshIknew said:


> Sorry Mrs JA, bad joke, just couldn't help myself!


Uncalled for, Wysh. You are better than that.


----------



## Philat

WhiteRaven said:


> You are as old as my mom. So it's really not my place to tell you what and what not to do. It's not pleasant to see you put your A details in almost every thread tempting us angry BSs to take you apart. Could you please stop doing it? Just a request.


"Us angry BSs" ought to read the Adamses's story twice a day every day in order to remind ourselves that there are truly remorseful WS out there, and that the pain and destructiveness of infidelity can be overcome. That is the lesson. That is the hope. If you are in a place of pain where you cannot see beyond this then do not read. And do not have the gall to accuse Mrs. JA of "tempting" you to attack her.


----------



## jld

WR, I think the Adams are just working through their issues. Or maybe just reflecting on them, if they have laid it all to rest.

Isn't that what all of us are doing on TAM, reflecting and learning and reflecting some more, as we work through the issues in our lives? 

It is part of growing. And I think most of us are growing on TAM.


----------



## MattMatt

WhiteRaven said:


> Sadly, you did.
> 
> Stop losing sleep over the OM. All you'd get is health problems. 23 years ago, my mom had to give a burglar the lead treatment. It was a kid with a saturday night special. It took her years to get over whys, whats, hows. Along the way you may step on sh*t. If you stand still, sh*t won't get off. Keep moving, the road will take care of it.
> 
> You are as old as my mom. So it's really not my place to tell you what and what not to do. It's not pleasant to see you put your A details in almost every thread tempting us angry BSs to take you apart. Could you please stop doing it?


Now, see, that's the problem. As I have said before too many angry BS' project their feelings of anger, bitterness and resentment onto other people's *former* WS'.

It's not fair and it's bad behaviour.


----------



## MattMatt

TRy said:


> The fact that she would have this conversation with you shows that she has gotten you to accept that she is having sex with the other as if it were a normal thing. The fact that you participated in the conversion, confirms that you have accepted this. This also shows that she as no respect for you at all.
> 
> 
> This violence is very wrong, yet she accepts this from him because as sick as it sounds, she respects him.
> 
> She cannot love someone that she does not respect. You are such a weak person to her right now, and the other man is such a strong man to her, there is no way that she can resist the other man unless the dynamic of the situation change. You must in your mind move on. Stop trying to keep the marraige together. Ask her to move out. Cut off all contact with her. Go the full 180. Tell her that marriage is over and mean it. Tell her that even if she dumps the other man, that you have lost all respect for her as person and that you need to find someone worthy of growing old with you. She will try to test getting you back to see if she still has you as a back up plan. Do not take her back unless over time she earns the right by hard work and action. The best way to save your marraige is to be willing to really end it. At this point the odds are not on your side, but they are the only odds that you have. Stop being weak and man up.


Respect or fear? After all, she knows her POSOM has killed before. So, why would he not kill again? :scratchhead:


----------



## WhiteRaven

Philat said:


> "Us angry BSs" ought to read the Adamses's story twice a day every day in order to remind ourselves that there are truly remorseful WS out there, and that the pain and destructiveness of infidelity can be overcome. That is the lesson. That is the hope. If you are in a place of pain where you cannot see beyond this then do not read. *And do not have the gall to accuse Mrs. JA of "tempting" you to attack her*.


That wasn't an accusation, it's just a summary of what has happened till now after every post of her A details on different threads. 

I have the *gall* to ask questions and post suggestions. You got an issue, report me.


----------



## MattMatt

WhiteRaven said:


> That wasn't an accusation, it's just a summary of what has happened till now after every post of her A details on different threads.
> 
> I have the *gall* to ask questions and post suggestions. You got an issue, report me.


Unfortunately, even though it might not have been intended by you as an accusation, it *did* come over as being quite accusatory in tone.


----------



## jld

I think it is great that everyone is expressing their thoughts and feelings. We learn the most when we are all just open and honest with each other.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



TRy said:


> Why do you let her come back to you? Why do you let her share your bed? She is confirming that she can have you back anytime that she wants you. That you will let her have her fun and explore a relationship with the other man, with the full knowledge that she is risking nothing. With nothing to lose, why would she even think to end the affair?


maybe she wants an open marriage but is too cowardly to just say so. or to be a **** as has been mentioned by me a number of times. Steve should just pick the available option he wants and tell her how it is. either a) cuckold b) open marriage or c) divorce.


----------



## Mike11

Guys, Although I am very much is the notion of if someone does not want to be with you then let them go and don't waste your time with them, sometimes it is easier said then done, I believe Steve had a good marriage for the past years and when you love and care for someone deeply sometimes it is very difficult to let just simply let go of that person and let them destroy their life and yours in the process, I believe he is trying to save her and his marriage from the destruction this situation has created, sometimes with the cost of his own dignity and respect, I do believe however that eventually Steve will get to the end and let go when he will realize that his efforts seem to be futile 

he just need to get to that realization that nothing that he will do will change her mind or way of thinking, these situations normally end up in bad things that happening to the WW enough to snap him/her back in to reality realizing the devastation they have caused. I think at this stage it will not help abusing Steve he needs as much support as possible to reach that stage that he understand what he needs to do. I know the type of them tour guides predators, They tell many grandiose stories about military service in the IDF which many Non Israelis cannot verify and many tourists fall for the Macho Israeli war Hero bull crap, the real war Heroes do not "blow their own horns" and never need to tell these stories so eventually this will blow in WW face, Steve just need to get help getting in to that "I give up" stage and not ridiculed.


----------



## Cosmos

Philat said:


> Uncalled for, Wysh. You are better than that.


He did say that it was a bad joke and apologized...


----------



## Pluto2

Steve appears desperate to save his marriage-that is his choice. 
But have there been any instances here on TAM where a marriage was saved when the WS continued the affair and showed no remorse? Even Mrs. John Adams eventually ended the A, and demonstrated true remorse.
None of that appears to be happening in Steve's case.
He has exposed- that didn't end the A.
He tried Plan A-that didn't end the A.
He's attempted the 180-can't really do it.

Focusing on how horrible the OM is for chasing his WS won't get Steve what he wants. She might have been chased, but she let him catch her. She had a choice, too.


----------



## SteveK

Mike11 said:


> Guys, Although I am very much is the notion of if someone does not want to be with you then let them go and don't waste your time with them, sometimes it is easier said then done, I believe Steve had a good marriage for the past years and when you love and care for someone deeply sometimes it is very difficult to let just simply let go of that person and let them destroy their life and yours in the process, I believe he is trying to save her and his marriage from the destruction this situation has created, sometimes with the cost of his own dignity and respect, I do believe however that eventually Steve will get to the end and let go when he will realize that his efforts seem to be futile
> 
> he just need to get to that realization that nothing that he will do will change her mind or way of thinking, these situations normally end up in bad things that happening to the WW enough to snap him/her back in to reality realizing the devastation they have caused. I think at this stage it will not help abusing Steve he needs as much support as possible to reach that stage that he understand what he needs to do. I know the type of them tour guides predators, They tell many grandiose stories about military service in the IDF which many Non Israelis cannot verify and many tourists fall for the Macho Israeli war Hero bull crap, the real war Heroes do not "blow their own horns" and never need to tell these stories so eventually this will blow in WW face, Steve just need to get help getting in to that "I give up" stage and not ridiculed.


Thanks Mike.

I don't want to turn this into a blog, so I have not been posting much.

I will post more of what's happening on the private forum.

I am not a cuckhold ! 

The fog is lifting...ok.

I just have to keep my big mouth shut.

Whenever I see her drifting my way or whenever I mention or even something on TV comes up that makes me realize she's questions this POS...I go full bore at him.

I just need to keep my mouth shut ...she is starting to see him for who is.....

I don't have time today but I will post something on the private board soon.


----------



## SteveK

Pluto2 said:


> Steve appears desperate to save his marriage-that is his choice.
> But have there been any instances here on TAM where a marriage was saved when the WS continued the affair and showed no remorse? Even Mrs. John Adams eventually ended the A, and demonstrated true remorse.
> None of that appears to be happening in Steve's case.
> He has exposed- that didn't end the A.
> He tried Plan A-that didn't end the A.
> He's attempted the 180-can't really do it.
> 
> Focusing on how horrible the OM is for chasing his WS won't get Steve what he wants. She might have been chased, but she let him catch her. She had a choice, too.


She has started to show remorse. She has started to see what a f'ed up POS this guy and all his acquaintances are.

I just need to sit back really 180 and let it unravel...

And I swear as the sky is blue , if he comes to the US again and she sees him I am going to make sure that he's never allowed back in the US again...and then I am going to throw her out on her A$$!


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



SteveK said:


> Thanks Mike.
> 
> I don't want to turn this into a blog, so I have not been posting much.
> 
> I will post more of what's happening on the private forum.
> 
> I am not a cuckhold !
> 
> The fog is lifting...ok.
> 
> I just have to keep my big mouth shut.
> 
> Whenever I see her drifting my way or whenever I mention or even something on TV comes up that makes me realize she's questions this POS...I go full bore at him.
> 
> I just need to keep my mouth shut ...she is starting to see him for who is.....
> 
> I don't have time today but I will post something on the private board soon.


Steve, while cheaters are almost always in the fog, the betrayed are almost always in their own shroud, referred to as the smog.

any insults, 2x4s or hard sounding language directed at you on your threads here are to help you out of your smog.

when/if your W does come out of her fog, do you seriously think she will come back to your marriage?

she is completely checked out. if you help her out of her fog well that is kind of you, but all you're doing is to help her find her bearings in seeking what she wants next, and in all likelihood it is not you. you can hold out hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


----------



## Jadiel

You know what pisses me off about these OM? They didn't earn any of it. Where was this guy at the midnight feedings for the baby? I didn't see them doing stuff around the house. They didn't take on an extremely difficult stepchild. They didn't sell all their music gear to buy her a friggin engagement ring. They don't listen to her rant about her bad day or actually go clothes shopping with her and pretend to give a crap lol....

These guys friggin owe me.


----------



## sidney2718

Jadiel said:


> You know what pisses me off about these OM? They didn't earn any of it. Where was this guy at the midnight feedings for the baby? I didn't see them doing stuff around the house. They didn't take on an extremely difficult stepchild. They didn't sell all their music gear to buy her a friggin engagement ring. They don't listen to her rant about her bad day or actually go clothes shopping with her and pretend to give a crap lol....
> 
> These guys friggin owe me.


Of course you are right. But perhaps if you really gave a crap it might not have happened?


----------



## Jadiel

sidney2718 said:


> Of course you are right. But perhaps if you really gave a crap it might not have happened?


There is some truth to that, but I liken it to this: Say a man catches his wife cheating, and beats the everloving crap out of her. Well, if she wasn't cheating, it wouldn't have happened.

In both cases, logic does seem to agree with the fact the the victim brought their unfortunate circumstances on themselves, however that does not make it right.


----------



## sidney2718

Lon said:


> Steve, while cheaters are almost always in the fog, the betrayed are almost always in their own shroud, referred to as the smog.
> 
> any insults, 2x4s or hard sounding language directed at you on your threads here are to help you out of your smog.
> 
> when/if your W does come out of her fog, do you seriously think she will come back to your marriage?
> 
> she is completely checked out. if you help her out of her fog well that is kind of you, but all you're doing is to help her find her bearings in seeking what she wants next, and in all likelihood it is not you. you can hold out hope for the best but prepare for the worst.


The problem is that this isn't quite true. If it was more black and white, I suspect Steve would have had an easier time of it. During the course of all this, Steve's wife would find reasons to slow things down, move back into the house, and have some good times with Steve.

She seems to be genuinely conflicted, which complicates matters a good bit.

People say that she's "cake eating". Why would she do that? She's not an impoverished wife. If she really wanted to be with the OM, nothing could stop her.


----------



## MattMatt

sidney2718 said:


> The problem is that this isn't quite true. If it was more black and white, I suspect Steve would have had an easier time of it. During the course of all this, Steve's wife would find reasons to slow things down, move back into the house, and have some good times with Steve.
> 
> She seems to be genuinely conflicted, which complicates matters a good bit.
> 
> People say that she's "cake eating". Why would she do that? She's not an impoverished wife. If she really wanted to be with the OM, nothing could stop her.


She wants two husbands and two lives. She also doesn't want her children to hate her and she wants the love and respect of her husband/s and of her in-laws. *But....*


----------



## 3putt

Jadiel said:


> You know what pisses me off about these OM? They didn't earn any of it. Where was this guy at the midnight feedings for the baby? I didn't see them doing stuff around the house. They didn't take on an extremely difficult stepchild. They didn't sell all their music gear to buy her a friggin engagement ring. They don't listen to her rant about her bad day or actually go clothes shopping with her and pretend to give a crap lol....
> 
> These guys friggin owe me.





sidney2718 said:


> Of course you are right. But perhaps if you really gave a crap it might not have happened?


Wouldn't the BS doing all that stuff illustrate (to at least a minimal degree) that he does give a crap?

:scratchhead:


----------



## just got it 55

SteveK said:


> She has started to show remorse. She has started to see what a f'ed up POS this guy and all his acquaintances are.
> 
> I just need to sit back really 180 and let it unravel...
> 
> And I swear as the sky is blue , if he comes to the US again and she sees him I am going to make sure that he's never allowed back in the US again...and then I am going to throw her out on her A$$!


Steven we have heard this all before

Countless times

Act to prove it

55


----------



## SteveK

WillinTampa said:


> What type of man chases married woman? --- A predator.
> 
> These guys sniff out insecurities and tell women what they want to hear. Unhappy married women are easy targets for them.
> 
> Also, taking another man's wife is an ego boost for them.
> 
> I think most of these guys can't form a real relationship with an independent woman.
> 
> Guys like him need the constant thrill and she won't provide it forever. He'll move on to someone else's wife.
> 
> Eventually, someone will either shoot him or cut his **** off -- and in the Middle East, I'd say his chances of ending up ****less are pretty good.
> 
> .


So I can of got into it with the WAS a few times today.
It should be excusable because today Should in Theory be our 28th Wedding anniversary.

I have to go into more details on my private thread. I am just not secure posting it here.

But basically everything in your post is what I pointed out to her.

I know I pissed her off, but I think I hit some nerves.


----------



## Pluto2

sidney2718 said:


> Of course you are right. But perhaps if you really gave a crap it might not have happened?


uncalled for and mean-spirited


----------



## SteveK

Mike11 said:


> Wake up Steve, find some pride in yourself


Mike your PM box is full.


----------



## SteveK

2long said:


> So this is your "plan" for when your WW got home from her THIRD trip 2 play with the OM?
> 
> I'm out, goddammit.
> 
> -ol' 2long


I had a long discussion with her.

She is not traveling anymore. she says she is also going to tell him he cant come here and see her.

I pushed her to stop talking to him...And she claimed I was pushing the envelope now...

She went Ape-sheet...I told her to get out of the Fing house and go to a hotel...

She said she cant she has to help S16 with finals...

She was white like a ghost.


----------



## SteveK

Q tip said:


> SteveK,
> 
> Simple... He read MMSLP knowing you haven't (won't/can't)


Whats is that?


----------



## SteveK

sandc said:


> First of all, the guys who do this deserve whatever happens to them. And all that implies.
> 
> Secondly, I think we men tend to blame ourselves for something that is broken in our spouse. If she's that easy, hell, let him have her.


I told her what I would do to POSOM if he comes back to the States..

Lets leave it at that...

I think she believes me and it scared the [email protected] out of her...


----------



## sidney2718

MattMatt said:


> She wants two husbands and two lives. She also doesn't want her children to hate her and she wants the love and respect of her husband/s and of her in-laws. *But....*


Do you have any idea how much the toilet seat would weigh?


----------



## sidney2718

SteveK said:


> So I can of got into it with the WAS a few times today.
> It should be excusable because today Should in Theory be our 28th Wedding anniversary.
> 
> I have to go into more details on my private thread. I am just not secure posting it here.
> 
> But basically everything in your post is what I pointed out to her.
> 
> I know I pissed her off, but I think I hit some nerves.


Steve, you are driving her back to the POSOM. Your temper is what got you here in the first place. If you want to reconcile, you have got to curb it.


----------



## sidney2718

Pluto2 said:


> uncalled for and mean-spirited


Perhaps, but I was responding to the bit below:



> They don't listen to her rant about her bad day or actually go clothes shopping with her and pretend to give a crap lol...


Any husband who fakes interest in his wife's activities is asking for trouble.


----------



## sidney2718

SteveK said:


> I told her what I would do to POSOM if he comes back to the States..
> 
> Lets leave it at that...
> 
> I think she believes me and it scared the [email protected] out of her...


You sure know how to play a winning hand. For months now you've been pushing the "I will be nice to her and she'll come back" song. Everybody said it wouldn't work.

But lo and behold it did work. She's back with bruises from the OM to show and on the verge of dumping him for you, the safe guy. So what do you do? Drive her right back to the OM.

I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not counting on it.


----------



## SteveK

sidney2718 said:


> The problem is that this isn't quite true. If it was more black and white, I suspect Steve would have had an easier time of it. During the course of all this, Steve's wife would find reasons to slow things down, move back into the house, and have some good times with Steve.
> 
> She seems to be genuinely conflicted, which complicates matters a good bit.
> 
> People say that she's "cake eating". Why would she do that? She's not an impoverished wife. If she really wanted to be with the OM, nothing could stop her.


Ok, so now I have done my Pushing of the proverbial buttons.

Sidney I was not the one yelling she was this time. I hit some nerves.

The best was when she said his Cell phone was stolen so he had to get a new one with a new number.

I said Stolen Where you there? she said no he told me. I said, he got a new phone because other woman had the number.

She looked at me like a Deer in the Headlights. Stopped dead in her tracks and siad, "you know, I never thought of that"

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


----------



## sidney2718

SteveK said:


> Ok, so now I have done my Pushing of the proverbial buttons.
> 
> Sidney I was not the one yelling she was this time. I hit some nerves.
> 
> The best was when she said his Cell phone was stolen so he had to get a new one with a new number.
> 
> I said Stolen Where you there? she said no he told me. I said, he got a new phone because other woman had the number.
> 
> She looked at me like a Deer in the Headlights. Stopped dead in her tracks and siad, "you know, I never thought of that"
> 
> :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


So she now accepts that there might be another woman? Wow! That is progress...:toast:


----------



## Mike11

Steve Finally you are standing up to her, thread carefully and smartly and calmly pick on every bull crap she is telling you about him, eventually you will cast enough doubt she may wake up and see the light


----------



## Mike11

SteveK said:


> Mike your PM box is full.


Cleaned it


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



sidney2718 said:


> Steve, you are driving her back to the POSOM. Your temper is what got you here in the first place. If you want to reconcile, you have got to curb it.


I disagree. I'm certainly not advocating to be abusive or mean. but absolutely be firm in what you need in your wife Steve. Don't be a d! ck, and don't make unlawful threats, but do continue to stand up for yourself. do not be afraid of driving her off or else you will fall back into the passive-aggressive manipulative ways that actually drove her sexual attraction away from you in the first place. I'm not telling you to be someone else, I'm suggesting that you need to figure out a way to continue dealing with this head on, like you did tonight.


----------



## SteveK

sidney2718 said:


> You sure know how to play a winning hand. For months now you've been pushing the "I will be nice to her and she'll come back" song. Everybody said it wouldn't work.
> 
> But lo and behold it did work. She's back with bruises from the OM to show and on the verge of dumping him for you, the safe guy. So what do you do? Drive her right back to the OM.
> 
> I hope I'm wrong. But I'm not counting on it.


I have commited to her and myself, that I am never bringing him up again.

I had to do what I did yesterday.
I am going to explain it all on the other thread.

IT played out fine. Especially if I now cut it out.


----------



## SteveK

Lon said:


> I disagree. I'm certainly not advocating to be abusive or mean. but absolutely be firm in what you need in your wife Steve. Don't be a d! ck, and don't make unlawful threats, but do continue to stand up for yourself. do not be afraid of driving her off or else you will fall back into the passive-aggressive manipulative ways that actually drove her sexual attraction away from you in the first place. I'm not telling you to be someone else, I'm suggesting that you need to figure out a way to continue dealing with this head on, like you did tonight.


Thanks LON

I am going to write the chain of events on my private thread.
I took charge because it was our 28th Wedding Anniversary. She knew I was hurting.

Then she dressed up in a way that she new would send my hormones right up and out the top of my head.

I had every Male Primordial Response feeding into me, plus the anniversary plus some info on the POSOM, plus some hints of doubt from her...I just had to do what I did.

I think even the threat against him maybe did not scare her, maybe she remembered the guy I was when she met me they 19 year old who would protect her and fight for her.


----------



## turnera

SteveK said:


> Whats is that?


Steve I KNOW we have talked to you before about MMSLP - Married Man Sex Life Primer. 

It's the bible for men learning how to be men so that women chase after THEM. This POSOM obviously follows what is in that book.

If you can't sit still to read the book, get it on Books On Tape and listen to it in your car between sales calls. You NEED this education.


----------



## Jadiel

sidney2718 said:


> Any husband who fakes interest in his wife's activities is asking for trouble.


Wow I guess I thought it was a fairly common thing in marriages. She doesn't give a crap about whatever video game I might be playing lately, and I don't really give a crap about whether she wants the black shirt with white stripes or the white shirt with black stripes. But we both pretend.


----------



## sidney2718

Jadiel said:


> Wow I guess I thought it was a fairly common thing in marriages. She doesn't give a crap about whatever video game I might be playing lately, and I don't really give a crap about whether she wants the black shirt with white stripes or the white shirt with black stripes. But we both pretend.


Well, a little of that goes a long way. I've gotten in trouble because of it. But as they say, your mileage may vary.


----------



## MattMatt

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Ok...brokeneric/whiteraven....bye bye


Oops!


----------



## drifting on

I haven't read this thread just the original post, sorry if I am repeating. I stayed away from this post as the title made me trigger. But like everyone curiosity got the better of me. Any man is not a man to go after married women. The title should be what type of male goes after married women? My WW had an affair with her co-worker, she will tell you he isn't half the man I am. In fact she won't even call him a man. Yes she had sex with him but he was basically worthless in bed. Those are her words. Emotionally he hit all the right buttons to get her to stray. She felt our marriage was over so why not find someone else. Only to find out he was far less of a man she could be with. 

Intimacy is a special bond between two people. The value is in the eye of the beholder. My WW was my first and to this day my only. I am proud of this as intimacy is very sacred to me. It does cause a problem with reconciliation in that she gave herself away to a nobody. I struggle with this to the point I punch walls. A man connects with his wife during intimacy that is only shared between them. To think he had sex with WW and feels he provided her with this connection is laughable. He didn't connect with her at all. In fact he became a pain in the a$$ to WW. Males who go after married women are incapable of long term relationships that are happy. My WW understands he was not capable of making her happy in bed or out. This affair came after a miscarriage and trying to have a child for fifteen years. We didn't communicate well and he offered some emotional support to her. EA started and a month later it was a PA. WW is remorseful, regretful, and completely shattered by her actions. I was also. 

So a male that chases married women is looking for that vulnerability to capitalize on to score. It's not sacred to him it's just another female who happens to let her guard down long enough to let him in. The female actually accepts less of a man to be emotionally fulfilled. That was my mistake, along with unconditional trust. WW took advantage of that and is now paying a heavy price before I even added a consequence. I will always e more of a man than WW's OM can even dream of being. In fact I told him this in person and all he did was hang his head. Of course he wouldn't speak to me unless there was an object between us. A pick up truck. Yeah, he's a man all right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

drifting on said:


> I haven't read this thread just the original post, sorry if I am repeating. I stayed away from this post as the title made me trigger. But like everyone curiosity got the better of me. Any man is not a man to go after married women. The title should be what type of male goes after married women? *My WW had an affair with her co-worker, she will tell you he isn't half the man I am. In fact she won't even call him a man. Yes she had sex with him but he was basically worthless in bed. Those are her words.* Emotionally he hit all the right buttons to get her to stray. She felt our marriage was over so why not find someone else. Only to find out he was far less of a man she could be with.


To be blunt, what's she really going to say? He's much better than you? More experienced (since you had not been with any other)?

She's obviously smart enough not to damage her Plan B (ie, you).





> *Intimacy is a special bond between two people. The value is in the eye of the beholder.* *My WW was my first and to this day my only.* I am proud of this as intimacy is very sacred to me. It does cause a problem with reconciliation in that she gave herself away to a nobody. I struggle with this to the point I punch walls. *A man connects with his wife during intimacy that is only shared between them.* To think he had sex with WW and feels he provided her with this connection is laughable. He didn't connect with her at all. In fact he became a pain in the a$$ to WW. Males who go after married women are incapable of long term relationships that are happy. My WW understands he was not capable of making her happy in bed or out. This affair came after a miscarriage and trying to have a child for fifteen years. We didn't communicate well and he offered some emotional support to her. EA started and a month later it was a PA. WW is remorseful, regretful, and completely shattered by her actions. I was also.


Your wife did not think the same as you. That's why she can cheat.



> So a male that chases married women is looking for that vulnerability to capitalize on to score. It's not sacred to him it's just another female who happens to let her guard down long enough to let him in. The female actually accepts less of a man to be emotionally fulfilled. That was my mistake, along with unconditional trust. WW took advantage of that and is now paying a heavy price before I even added a consequence. I will always e more of a man than WW's OM can even dream of being. In fact I told him this in person and all he did was hang his head. Of course he wouldn't speak to me unless there was an object between us. A pick up truck. Yeah, he's a man all right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



You're angry. There'll always be another man out there. But you only have 1 wife. Your anger should be more directed at your wife instead of trying to shift to the OM.


----------



## SteveK

drifting on said:


> I haven't read this thread just the original post, sorry if I am repeating. I stayed away from this post as the title made me trigger. But like everyone curiosity got the better of me. Any man is not a man to go after married women. The title should be what type of male goes after married women? My WW had an affair with her co-worker, she will tell you he isn't half the man I am. In fact she won't even call him a man. Yes she had sex with him but he was basically worthless in bed. Those are her words. Emotionally he hit all the right buttons to get her to stray. She felt our marriage was over so why not find someone else. Only to find out he was far less of a man she could be with.
> 
> Intimacy is a special bond between two people. The value is in the eye of the beholder. My WW was my first and to this day my only. I am proud of this as intimacy is very sacred to me. It does cause a problem with reconciliation in that she gave herself away to a nobody. I struggle with this to the point I punch walls. A man connects with his wife during intimacy that is only shared between them. To think he had sex with WW and feels he provided her with this connection is laughable. He didn't connect with her at all. In fact he became a pain in the a$$ to WW. Males who go after married women are incapable of long term relationships that are happy. My WW understands he was not capable of making her happy in bed or out. This affair came after a miscarriage and trying to have a child for fifteen years. We didn't communicate well and he offered some emotional support to her. EA started and a month later it was a PA. WW is remorseful, regretful, and completely shattered by her actions. I was also.
> 
> So a male that chases married women is looking for that vulnerability to capitalize on to score. It's not sacred to him it's just another female who happens to let her guard down long enough to let him in. The female actually accepts less of a man to be emotionally fulfilled. That was my mistake, along with unconditional trust. WW took advantage of that and is now paying a heavy price before I even added a consequence. I will always e more of a man than WW's OM can even dream of being. In fact I told him this in person and all he did was hang his head. Of course he wouldn't speak to me unless there was an object between us. A pick up truck. Yeah, he's a man all right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Interstingly, my WW told OM, that he needs to stay away. She is not ready to break telephone contact, but she does not want him to come to the USA. He freaked on her. He told her that she is choosing to stay on "The Dark Side"!! 

So the Faithful, loyal, husband, father of her two highly over achiever sons that will be a positive influence on society never once got in trouble in school or college, I am an excellent provider..etc..is THE DARK SIDE

But a 53 year old Tour guide, Womanizer, lier, Fraud..he is not the dark side!!

I told her in a loving non-begging way that she needs to listen carefully to his words..He is telling her that if they end up married, he has every right to do whatever he wants, to lie to her, to see other woman, because married couples have no rights to set boundaries for each other...

I am starting to realizer this is how he got to her...

she and I ahd issues, one of them was control...so he focused on this aspect...he made her feel that i was holding her back, that she neded to be reborn, she needed to be a free spirti etc etc...that was his angle..I have got it down...

so now I have shown her, that I am the one who knows of her affair, I am the one that in a way let her go to him twice...however, he thinks I live in the basement, he thinks we sleep in separate beds, he has no idea that after her STD test results come back we plan on going away for the weekend...etc etc etc...

So he is the one she now feels she needs to keep secrets from, he is the one who she has to say to me...If he finds out you drove me to the airport for my business trip he will kill me...she told him her assistants husband drove them to the airport.
Oh and wait what will happen if he finds out she is wearing our wedding band, whereas I knew when she last went to Israel she left it home and wore his $25.00 "fake gold commitment ring".


Our MC says she knows the wife has doubts about the OM


----------



## Mike11

oh man, Steve, as much as I want this to end up good for you as I am reading what you have wrote I doubt it very much, as soon as this cripo is going to land in the US, your wife is going to run to him like a 16 yo Groupie, dont you see she is playing both fields ?

and you are enabling this, you will always make yourself an orbiter for her dont you see this, even if she dumps this douche, it is a matter of time until she will find another douche to cling on to, don't you see that ? this is not going to end well for you and for her until she learns the consequences of her choices


----------



## aug

The way you're acting, it seems to me, confirms to your wife that the OM is better than you.

I would think if you told your wife to fvck off, go be with her lover, and stand tall for yourself, she would react differently. If you show that you dont really need her, that you are fine without her, then that would be a big change. Have a tremendous amount of self-respect - fake it till you do.


----------



## vi_bride04

*Re: Re: What type of man chases married woman?*



SteveK said:


> Interstingly, my WW told OM, that he needs to stay away. She is not ready to break telephone contact, but she does not want him to come to the USA. He freaked on her. He told her that she is choosing to stay on "The Dark Side"!!
> 
> So the Faithful, loyal, husband, father of her two highly over achiever sons that will be a positive influence on society never once got in trouble in school or college, I am an excellent provider..etc..is THE DARK SIDE
> 
> But a 53 year old Tour guide, Womanizer, lier, Fraud..he is not the dark side!!
> 
> I told her in a loving non-begging way that she needs to listen carefully to his words..He is telling her that if they end up married, he has every right to do whatever he wants, to lie to her, to see other woman, because married couples have no rights to set boundaries for each other...
> 
> I am starting to realizer this is how he got to her...
> 
> she and I ahd issues, one of them was control...so he focused on this aspect...he made her feel that i was holding her back, that she neded to be reborn, she needed to be a free spirti etc etc...that was his angle..I have got it down...
> 
> so now I have shown her, that I am the one who knows of her affair, I am the one that in a way let her go to him twice...however, he thinks I live in the basement, he thinks we sleep in separate beds, he has no idea that after her STD test results come back we plan on going away for the weekend...etc etc etc...
> 
> So he is the one she now feels she needs to keep secrets from, he is the one who she has to say to me...If he finds out you drove me to the airport for my business trip he will kill me...she told him her assistants husband drove them to the airport.
> Oh and wait what will happen if he finds out she is wearing our wedding band, whereas I knew when she last went to Israel she left it home and wore his $25.00 "fake gold commitment ring".
> 
> 
> Our MC says she knows the wife has doubts about the OM


I don't see any consequences for her in all of this babble. Alls I see is her lying to you even more and you believing the things that come out of her mouth.


----------



## Forest

So White Raven actually got banned over that, or am I allowed to ask that question?

I guess I could disappear, too, now.


----------



## manticore

Forest said:


> So White Raven actually got banned over that, or am I allowed to ask that question?
> 
> I guess I could disappear, too, now.


WhiteRaven was apparently an old user called BrokenEric, I liked BrokenEric and I actually believed his story, he then began to sent innapropiate private messages to many female Tammers (many married), he was perma banned for that, after BE banning WhiteRaven appered, he contacted by PM asking about BE and how way of writing as the timing make me suspicious about his identity (apperently I was not the only one as he was reported and confirmed for what I was told as BE).

Even if WhiteRaven would have turned not to be BrokenEric there were many signs depicting him as Troll, the following is part of a PM that I sent to another Tammer:

_*his story and the story of those who are around him are very dramatic and have shocking outcomes. This includes his uncle also he have had two friends that have died for issues related to infidelity:

- In one case the friend's wife was sleeping with guys around europe, got aids and infected his friend, and in the end whiteraven parents adopted the daughter of his friend (really?, why neither of the grandparents or neither of the uncles took care of her)

- in the other case his childhood friend died from a weird genetic disease that was from the side of the OM, and the WW prefered to stay alone, segragated and disowned and hated for her kids and XH before revealing the OM's name.

- his uncle stayed married for more than a decade after he was betrayed for the sake of his kids, pretending to reconcile just to suddendly divorce and left the his WW devastated.

and lastly his own story where he depict himself as the super hero completing the fantazy that every BH has:

- he slept with the OMW repetedly and took pictures of their encounters, then went and braged to OM what he did showing him the evidence at the parking loot of OM's work.

but then the OMW did not care that he did that, taking pictures of her and showing them to the OM, she instead still wanted their relatonship as FWB, really?

and to humilate more the OM, the OM's daughter was calling whiteraven daddy telling him that she wanted him to be his daddy, really?. (funny as he did not begin to associate with the OMW until his wife's affair, and also why would the OMW let his daughter hang out with a man with whom she just have a relationship as FWB?)

and to add more drama to his story whiteraven's found evidence of his wife being pregnant but not from OM but from him, but she aborted even when she wanted to stay with Whiteraven tthe affair was not even reveal yet, so why to abort?

sometimes I feel that he just keep pushig to see how much sh*t are we going to swallow with his lies, but again I have no evidence to call him out.*_


----------



## turnera

catfish is my favorite tv show.


----------



## vellocet

SteveK said:


> Interstingly, my WW told OM, that he needs to stay away. She is not ready to break telephone contact


And you are putting up with this because?


----------



## sidney2718

vi_bride04 said:


> I don't see any consequences for her in all of this babble. Alls I see is her lying to you even more and you believing the things that come out of her mouth.


Not every wandering spouse is the same. Not every affair is the same. There is not one set of rules that fit all cases. The wife here does not have to have the word "****" tattooed on her forehead. Nor does she have to spend three weeks weeping in public to appease her husband.

Worse, nobody can guarantee the future. The best they can hope for is the recognition that they in fact care for each other. For most all of us, that is what we have and it is enough.


----------



## vi_bride04

sidney2718 said:


> Not every wandering spouse is the same. Not every affair is the same. There is not one set of rules that fit all cases. The wife here does not have to have the word "****" tattooed on her forehead. Nor does she have to spend three weeks weeping in public to appease her husband.
> 
> Worse, nobody can guarantee the future. The best they can hope for is the recognition that they in fact care for each other. For most all of us, that is what we have and it is enough.


This is true but I see no actions on either Steve or WW part that would indicate anything from status quo is going to change. 

Its all words. No actions.


----------



## Marduk

drifting on said:


> I haven't read this thread just the original post, sorry if I am repeating. I stayed away from this post as the title made me trigger. But like everyone curiosity got the better of me. Any man is not a man to go after married women. The title should be what type of male goes after married women? My WW had an affair with her co-worker, she will tell you he isn't half the man I am. In fact she won't even call him a man. Yes she had sex with him but he was basically worthless in bed. Those are her words. Emotionally he hit all the right buttons to get her to stray. She felt our marriage was over so why not find someone else. Only to find out he was far less of a man she could be with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have it on good authority, from both men and women, that affair sex is usually the best, kinkiest, dirtiest sex they've ever had.

And that they tell their spouses it wasn't to minimize the damage.

I tend to believe this.


----------



## sidney2718

vi_bride04 said:


> This is true but I see no actions on either Steve or WW part that would indicate anything from status quo is going to change.
> 
> Its all words. No actions.


My opinion is different, but worth no more than yours. We will just have to stay tuned and see.


----------



## staystrong

A wonderful man. 

Someone who will provide generous support and listen to her problems, and tell her all those things her despondent H doesn't. Because if her hubby was not taking care of this wonderful woman, then someone else must! He sees who she truly *is*.

So they'll just "talk". And he will touch her hand to comfort her.

And then stroke her arm. 

(15 minutes later)

BANG BANG BANG on the floor.

Because he cares. She's special. He's a better man.


----------



## bandit.45

BUMP for educational purposes, to show what NOT to do when a spouse cheats.


----------



## MattMatt

bandit.45 said:


> BUMP for educational purposes, to show what NOT to do when a spouse cheats.


I only thought about @SteveK the other day.

I wonder how he's doing?


----------



## TDSC60

MattMatt said:


> I only thought about @SteveK the other day.
> 
> I wonder how he's doing?


Unless his cheating wife finally moved to Israel,,,,,,he is doing whatever she tells him to do.


----------



## 3putt

TDSC60 said:


> Unless his cheating wife finally moved to Israel,,,,,,he is doing whatever she tells him to do.


Sometime back someone who kept in touch with him said he had finally had enough and filed. Have no clue if it's true or not, though. Personally?.....I would bet against it.


----------



## Mike11

MattMatt said:


> I only thought about @SteveK the other day.
> 
> I wonder how he's doing?


He is doing very well, I am in contact with him 

Cannot give any more details other then he finally divorced that Wench of his


----------



## MattMatt

Mike11 said:


> He is doing very well, I am in contact with him
> 
> Cannot give any more details other then he finally divorced that Wench of his


Now that *is* good news! :smthumbup:


----------



## Chaparral

Didn't she move to Israel?


----------



## hinterdir

What kind of man? A man of very low character and a man who is extremely selfish. That applies the same to a woman as well.


----------



## sidney2718

3putt said:


> Sometime back someone who kept in touch with him said he had finally had enough and filed. Have no clue if it's true or not, though. Personally?.....I would bet against it.


Save your money. Several folks have maintained touch with him as you can see from this thread. SteveK and his wife are divorced now and have been for a while.


----------



## bandit.45

Mike11 said:


> He is doing very well, I am in contact with him
> 
> Cannot give any more details other then he finally divorced that Wench of his


Mike! Where the hell have you been man?


----------



## bandit.45

I hope SteveK got into therapy for his codependency. Worst case of it I ever saw. Now, if someone could just cure him of that stubborn streak...


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

ThePheonix said:


> Married men chase married woman because they want a partner that has as much to lose as they do. Single men chase married woman because they are cheap dates, with little guesswork as to what to expect from the relationship. (a shorter distance to the bedroom)
> What type man does it? *Out of 10 guys, pick any 7 or 8 that would do it if the circumstances presented itself. *And it's ego building to feel she is willing to risk everything to be with you.
> When I was doing a little escorting, I believed I was providing a service. She needs someone to make her feel special and the most desirable and interesting woman in the room and I enjoyed doing that.


I think you run with a very different crowd than I.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

.


----------



## Beach123

A man that calculates that a high percentage of married women don't have their needs met...and capitalizes on those odds.

In other words a preditor... a high percentage are preditory men that wish to make little effort to get sex.


----------



## Philat

sidney2718 said:


> Save your money. Several folks have maintained touch with him as you can see from this thread. SteveK and his wife are divorced now and have been for a while.


I hope it was SteveK who took the initiative (finally).


----------



## 3putt

sidney2718 said:


> Save your money. Several folks have maintained touch with him as you can see from this thread. SteveK and his wife are divorced now and have been for a while.


Very glad to hear it, but man did he put himself through some unnecessary torment to get to that point.


----------



## colingrant

SteveK said:


> So here's my question. Why would a beautiful woman with a family and a financially secure life date a guy who's wife claims he always try's to start relationships with married woman.
> 
> The other part is my wife for 25 years ripped into woman who had affairs, she also said men who chase married woman are the scum of the earth. But in her case where she believed she gave him the "look" it was ok to have an affair, and then even after he admitted it was he who started it, she believes that he is a better, deeper, has more soul, sweeter and kinder man than me. The scary thing is all of his friends and colleagues who know that he runs religious tours in Israel, seem to condone his affair with my wife. And those that don't he covers it up by making like he rescued her from a horrific life with me.
> 
> Ladies men who pursue married woman are sick, they have a desire to get what is not there's, they WILL CHEAT on you too eventually ....


It's well known how some women require male attention for validation and when they don't get it, they're often unfulfilled and unhappy. Quiet as it is kept, many men seek validation also, and it comes at the expense of vulnerable married or unmarried females. Married ones are ripe for them though, as they are perfect candidates for short-term ego boost without the full-time effort. Ladies.....once you start talking about issues in your life to an experienced guy, you're in his cross-hairs. He will wait months because he knows he has you where he wants you. Only his patience is required to get you on your back. 

Sadly, my 98 pound weakling nerdy boyhood friend has yet to make up for the self esteem that he never had as a youngster when he was made fun of for dissecting electronic devices. His hit list is long and he's still seeking to add to it. Not married ones though, thank goodness. I guess it's the same for the chubby girl with glasses who got contacts and lost her baby fat. Anyway, back to the point, many men simply need ego boosting and married females who are emotionally vulnerable are the ones who can supply him. 

In many cases the formula is, Compliments + attention = sex. The guy doesn't have to be wealthy, handsome, career minded, nice, kind or even have a redeeming quality. The woman will make up stuff and see things in the guy that aren't even there!!! All the guy has to do is be there for her and the reward is porn star type sex. Sad, but true in many cases.


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## sidney2718

Beach123 said:


> A man that calculates that a high percentage of married women don't have their needs met...and capitalizes on those odds.
> 
> In other words a preditor... a high percentage are preditory men that wish to make little effort to get sex.


And the women are married to men that don't meet their needs, right. When it is the men who are not getting their needs met, the reaction here is often very different.


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## sidney2718

3putt said:


> Very glad to hear it, but man did he put himself through some unnecessary torment to get to that point.


I think one has to understand that he really loved her. And he was a success oriented kind of guy and he did not want to bust up the marriage.

Eventually he'd had enough and filed. They then entered lawyer hell. Her lawyer kept delaying things (she kept changing her mind) and the lawyer meters were running. After about a year the divorce became final.

She has not yet married the OM. Steve is dating and enjoying it, and he's trying to put his financial situation back together.

CONCLUSION: New York is NOT a great place to go through an adversarial divorce.


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## Adelais

I remember SteveK. Can one of you who knows him ask him to come back and post how he is doing, what he learned and what he would have done differently?

How is his son doing?


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## bandit.45

Araucaria said:


> I remember SteveK. Can one of you who knows him ask him to come back and post how he is doing, what he learned and what he would have done differently?
> 
> How is his son doing?


Doubt he’d want to come back here. We gave him a good thrubbing.


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## sidney2718

bandit.45 said:


> Doubt he’d want to come back here. We gave him a good thrubbing.


I think he'd agree that he was too romantic and not realistic enough.

Someone asked about his son. He's in college now and is doing VERY well.


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## MovingForward

In_The_Wind said:


> Married women are easy , and most don't want a relationship just sex. Limited time commitment, some sick puppies think it's manly to bed another guys wife etc etc not as much fear of stds
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Exactly this and I pretty much explained this to her, she seems to think if she tells people she is in relationship then no one will try anything, I explained the above, lots of guys prefer it for a quick hook up as no responsibility, if they are in relationship they can guarantee she wont talk and their GF will find out and it a quick bit of fun with little to no risk for the guy. 

You would have to be a real POS to do it though


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## Marc878

sidney2718 said:


> I think one has to understand that he really loved her. And he was a success oriented kind of guy and he did not want to bust up the marriage.
> 
> Eventually he'd had enough and filed. They then entered lawyer hell. Her lawyer kept delaying things (she kept changing her mind) and the lawyer meters were running. After about a year the divorce became final.
> 
> She has not yet married the OM. Steve is dating and enjoying it, and he's trying to put his financial situation back together.
> 
> CONCLUSION: New York is NOT a great place to go through an adversarial divorce.


Glad he's out of that mess. For some it's hard to let go even when deep down they know they should.


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## bandit.45

It was just the staunch stubbornness he displayed that I couldn't understand. He prided himself on being this brilliant businessman and salesman, and yet the sunk-cost fallacy was lost on him.


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## Mike11

bandit.45 said:


> Mike! Where the hell have you been man?



I AM here Bandito, just laying low, minding my business, going through some challenges of my own...


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## Horizon

Aholes, in my experience.


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## SweetAndSour

No man can chase a woman and have sex with her if woman doesn't have that set of mind already in place, except rape. 

I can't read the whole thread but our "good clean women" who are not that clean, scares me the most, not the a*sHoles.

Human society may have had a wise survival choice when we went from matriarchy to patriarchy.


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## aine

options20 said:


> I've never been with a married woman. But I've never been against it either though in the sense of just sex. It could be if he knew you well that he knew your relationship was already weak and he cared about her. Or it could just be that he doesn't know you doesn't care that she'd be cheating on you because you were no one special to him so there was no promise to him not to have sexual relations with your wife. With you out of the equation then it's all dependent on what he and your stbx want.
> 
> That's how it was for me and my married man. I never wanted him as a boyfriend though or coaxed him to leave his wife all I really was interested in was having a good time and nothing serious.
> 
> Also just because one had sexual relations with a married person doesn't mean they'd chose to cheat as well. I've always been honest with anyone I was intimate with. I never would stay in an unhappy relationship. However I was well willing to have an intimate relationship with a guy who was married with kids because to me that was his choice. My concern on his personal decisions weren't really my business therefore I found no reason to not have sex with him just because he decided to cheat on his wife.


You sound lovely! No principles whatsoever. I trust the karma bus will get you big time for sure.


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## aine

SteveK said:


> I told her what I would do to POSOM if he comes back to the States..
> 
> Lets leave it at that...
> 
> I think she believes me and it scared the [email protected] out of her...


Frankly SteveK, why on earth would you want to fight to keep a wife like that. Let her go with pride and divorce her. Get a cutthroat lawyer and go scorched earth on her. What are you teaching your kids, that women behave like this and its ok?

OK, read all the post, he divorced her! Alleluia!


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## aine

SteveK said:


> Interstingly, my WW told OM, that he needs to stay away. She is not ready to break telephone contact, but she does not want him to come to the USA. He freaked on her. He told her that she is choosing to stay on "The Dark Side"!!
> 
> So the Faithful, loyal, husband, father of her two highly over achiever sons that will be a positive influence on society never once got in trouble in school or college, I am an excellent provider..etc..is THE DARK SIDE
> 
> But a 53 year old Tour guide, Womanizer, lier, Fraud..he is not the dark side!!
> 
> I told her in a loving non-begging way that she needs to listen carefully to his words..He is telling her that if they end up married, he has every right to do whatever he wants, to lie to her, to see other woman, because married couples have no rights to set boundaries for each other...
> 
> I am starting to realizer this is how he got to her...
> 
> she and I ahd issues, one of them was control...so he focused on this aspect...he made her feel that i was holding her back, that she neded to be reborn, she needed to be a free spirti etc etc...that was his angle..I have got it down...
> 
> so now I have shown her, that I am the one who knows of her affair, I am the one that in a way let her go to him twice...however, he thinks I live in the basement, he thinks we sleep in separate beds, he has no idea that after her STD test results come back we plan on going away for the weekend...etc etc etc...
> 
> So he is the one she now feels she needs to keep secrets from, he is the one who she has to say to me...If he finds out you drove me to the airport for my business trip he will kill me...she told him her assistants husband drove them to the airport.
> Oh and wait what will happen if he finds out she is wearing our wedding band, whereas I knew when she last went to Israel she left it home and wore his $25.00 "fake gold commitment ring".
> 
> 
> Our MC says she knows the wife has doubts about the OM



Why on earth are you still playing the 'pick me' routine. Kick her to the kerb now and do the 180. She has one foot still in with him and you are still allowing it!

He finally did it and divorced her! :toast::yay::yay:


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