# OPEN confession of a confused man. (please dont judge)



## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

I'm a 44yo man married to a 35yo woman and super confused about my behavior. No kids. Financially very stable. Our marriage works, passion has dwindles some, but still strong. We also get along much better now than when we met. So I would summarize it as a great life and marriage.

About six months ago I started to create online dating site profiles and talk to women. I liked it so much that over 3 month I actually met several women just for coffee or dinner. I was into the thrill of it, not into the women so nothing happened.

Then 2 months ago I started emailing with a 21yo, sent her some money via paypal, and eventually met her once. Got a crush on her, but we dont talk anymore, she has a boyfriend. 3 weeks ago I met another woman, 29 yo and have a super huge crush on her now. I told her and she is not reciprocating so everything is back to normal (I will deal with my crush by myself). We still text.

I never had anything physical with any of these women, but I keep flirting with any woman I meet, cashiers, bystanders, coffee shop operators, business owners, you name it! I developed a technique that allows me to get their phone number in about 10-15 min of talking to them. I never call, I might text a couple of times, then I get tired and start flirting again with new girls.

What is the point of this? Am I going to end up badly? Anybody can make sense out of this? Soooo confused. Seeing a therapist now but he has not clue either.


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## Secondguessing (Mar 6, 2017)

Sounds like a mid-life crisis.
You are about the right age for it.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Secondguessing said:


> Sounds like a mid-life crisis.
> You are about the right age for it.


Mid life crisis is about not being satisfied with your job or life in general isn't it? I discussed this possibility with my therapist but he seems to think it's not that simple.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

And your wife has no idea? And do these other women know that you are married? 

You should tell her....and let her divorce you if she wants to. Even if you are not physical with other women, it really really sucks when your husband is into someone else. Period.

At least suggest an open marriage so that she can date also.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You are addicted to the attention. As soon as one of these younger women reciprocates that you find attractive, you'll be a cheater, and yes, it will ruin your marriage.

What you're doing is not unlike a porn addiction or a gambling addiction. You keep doing it because you like the high that goes with it. Make no mistake, your addiction will ruin your marriage and you will hate yourself. 

Get a new therapist that deals with addictions. At least you have enough perspective to realize you have a problem.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Mid life crisis is about not being satisfied with your job or life in general isn't it? I discussed this possibility with my therapist but he seems to think it's not that simple.


Well you are in the right age group and doing some pretty darn simple things that most people in the brinks of midlife do. You are fantasizing about having a fling. You are dipping your toes, pretty soon you will fall straight into an affair and then the midlife crisis will begin. 

Seek another therapist. This one is not a good match for a man your age. Find a male one that has experience with men going through midlife and avoid a crisis. Midlife is a right of passage just like teenage years. Some come out of it with their lives pretty much better than before and some really mess up just like teenagers that engage in risky behaviors like doing drugs, experimenting sexually, feeling depresses or unfullfilled and bored. 

You are into risky behaviors of the sexual type. You will eventually get caught if you don't nip these fantasies in the bud. If you want a new life, then leave your wife and seek a new partner or partners. You are not a teenager anymore. At midlife engaging in these risky behaviors can be very harmful to you in the long run. Did you sow your oats when you were young? Do you feel you missed out on something in your youth and now you feel the need to explore what you didn't explore in your youth?

If you love your wife, then seek help and get into some midlife crisis forums. You will see that what you are doing is indeed very normal of what others do during midlife. Please seek help so that you can make an informed decision about which route you wish to take at this point in your life.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Evinrude58 said:


> You are addicted to the attention. As soon as one of these younger women reciprocates that you find attractive, you'll be a cheater, and yes, it will ruin your marriage.
> 
> What you're doing is not unlike a porn addiction or a gambling addiction. You keep doing it because you like the high that goes with it. Make no mistake, your addiction will ruin your marriage and you will hate yourself.
> 
> Get a new therapist that deals with addictions. At least you have enough perspective to realize you have a problem.


Exactly. Great post. Well said.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Men are predators by nature. You love the chase and conquest. You love the attention. You can't get that kind of thrill from your spouse.

Yes, this will end badly. VERY BADLY. You will hurt your wife irreparably and destroy your marriage. And you will NOT be happier for it. All the thrill of your stealth activities will be gone in a poof when you're suddenly just some single middle aged man trying desperately to not spend his nights alone.

I like the idea of seeing someone who specializes in addiction over just general counseling.

You also might see if your wife would be interested in role playing, where she's sitting alone at the bar and you go hit on her pretending you're strangers. (I've seen it done in movies...)


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I know one way to fix this if you actually still love your wife....

Just be in a dark corner at a bar where you're looking up women to prey on. Then watch your wife come in and start flirting with another man and see him take her out the door. If you care about her at all, it will likely cure you of your bs. Sad thing is, your wife probably isn't that devoid of character and it will never happen.

What you're doing would hurt your wife to the point of her not wanting to live for a long time, if she found out. You'll never know pain until you experience someone doing to you what you're doing to your wife.

Please find a way to stop, or cut her loose.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Your marriage is dead. You just don't know it yet. You killed it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Your marriage is dead. You just don't know it yet. You killed it.


Dang slkillme, you are extreme dude!

He is at a crossroads, like most peeps at midlife are. He is going through his second adolescence so to speak. I wonder if he even had his first adolescence at all? Maybe he just did what his family expected him to do. Please talk to us OP. I know my X husband engaged in gambling and drinking before fantasizing about OW and then finally seeking an AP because he was so miserable inside himself, that he thought our marriage and me were at fault for his internal pollution. 

He seeked outside solutions to his internal pollution. The last one I tolerated was of course the affair. He mistakenly thought that if he was able to cheat it was because he had fallen in love. That of course was not true and his affair ended 5 months after we separated. He has had many girlfriends since his second chance at love failed. 

He is not happy. He has aged tremendously and drinks a bit too much. His children see him as an ATM machine as well as his girlfriends of course. He has had a steady girlfriend for the past 7 years, yet I come across his profile on singles sites now and again. They don't live together and she is with him because she gets money from him. He cheats and I doubt that she is clueless about it. He will probably never change. 

Oh, and he was classic midlife crisis. The red convertible and the motorcycle came with the OW as well. Poster child for midlife crisis!


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## ZedZ (Feb 6, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> I know one way to fix this if you actually still love your wife....
> 
> Just be in a dark corner at a bar where you're looking up women to prey on. Then watch your wife come in and start flirting with another man and see him take her out the door. If you care about her at all, it will likely cure you of your bs. Sad thing is, your wife probably isn't that devoid of character and it will never happen.
> 
> ...


Well said...very well said...


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I honestly doubt that he will care enough to change. It seems that he is out to seek thrills like others have mentioned as addictions. If he is addicted to the chase of women, I seriously doubt that he really feels anything deep for anyone at this point in his life. 

He is bored with life and something inside him is missing. That is why he is seeking thrills. He is like most teenagers that are bored. He just wants to feel something. His wife doesn't cut it for him anymore, his addiction of choice won't either for long. He needs to find the answers that are within and not external. Very hard thing to do. Most of us are not that deep. Hence why we seek thrills/addictions to get rid of our feelings of boredom, fear, disillusion, despair, depression etc.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Why My Husband & I Sometimes Have Sex With Other People - mindbodygreen

I had two girlfriends walk me to school when I was 11 and got a visit from our parish priest about the makeout parties I was organizing after school. I tried to be monogamous once but my ex fiancee cheated on me and that was it for monogamy. My wife knew all about me years before we met. Had even seen my pictures. Word of mouth was that I was good in bed but not good to enter into a relationship with. Plus I was kinky which attracted all the local kinky girls.

I think I had sex with 4 girls in my first year of marriage. My wife knew of the first and that is when we decided to be non monogamous. My wife knew that I could never just be with one woman sexually. Genetically men are designed to impregnate a few women every day of their life. We are genetically attracted to women who we feel have good genes and to mate with them. Some feel these genetic urges more of less than others. It is estimated that as many as 70% of men cheat. Every boss, man or woman, has cheated on their spouses. I knew this because I travelled with them on business and they did not hide it. All of the siblings of my wife and I cheated as did all of our old friends. It seems that when you vow to be sexuall faithful, it is done with a wink and a nod.

Anyway, our solution was to be in what some call an ethical non monogamous marriage. We did not go looking for sex partners but if one came our way, we could have sex with them. We also got into various forms of group sex. That gave me what I needed and also my wife who was a virgin when we married and curious about sex with others. For all she knew, sex could be much better with others than with me. Quite the opposite happened when she told me that I was more than enough man for her and she no longer wanted to have sex with other men. That still left me with my needs, so she started inviting her girlfriends to join us in bed. We did that about 3-4 times and ended up inviting her best friend to live with us and join our marriage. Our girlfriend was in our life for 30 years and would still be had not fate intervened.

I also dated a few women, maybe 7 in our 44 years of marriage that I had sex with without my wife. My wife was content with me and her girlfriend and she constantly refused to date men or have another man join us in bed since our girlfriend had no objections. Yet she said no and still says no even though she is free to date others if she wants to. It is only fair since she allowed me freedom and shared her lovers with me for most of our marriage.

Read my signature below. It is my belief. We tend to cling to what we learned and were told how to behave, even though it results in a 50% divorce rate. I sometime think monogamy is crazy due to all the cheating going one, little of which is known about. Last study I saw had men at 70% and women at 50-60% cheating and catching up each year. Most of that is due to social media and dating sites. In my time we had to meet girls in our everyday activities. For me that meant at work or traveling by public transportation to and from work. In fact, I met my wife on a train coming home from work.

What I think is most crazy is that to have sex with a woman, other than your wife, for just one night, the moral thing is to first destroy your marriage by divorce, split your assets, fight over property and custody of kids and financially ruin each other. Then and only then can you morally have sex with another women that means nothing more than sex. There is still an element of ownership of each other in marriage. Why does sex with someone else have to be the biggest sin in marriage? Sex can be just sex. Jealousy and monogamy had a very real purpose at one time. The man did not want to waste his limited time and resources raising a kid that did not carry his genes back in ancient times. The women needed the man to stick around to protect and provide for her and her children. So monogamy made sense in olden days. Now women do not need a man other than to donate sperm. She get protected by the police and military. She buys her food in a supermarket and can work to earn her own money. There is DNA testing to determine who the father is. In my day all they good do is blood typing which only limited the child to men with your blood type and not specifically to you.

Having sex with someone other than your spouse does not have to mean you love them less or not at all. My wife and I always kept each other and our marriage above all else. We did not experience jealousy because jealousy stems from insecurity and fear of loss. We did not fear losing each other to someone else and we were very secure in who we are and what we brought to the table. We were able to have sex with others and love other people with no harm to our 44 year marriage. We had periods of time when we were poly, engaged in group sex and were monogamous as we are now. We both experienced what is called compersion which is joy in your partner's pleasure. It is however a way to design your own marriage rather than stick with the one that will follows rules that do not work half the time. Read the article below for details about my kind of marriage.

Not suggesting it to others as there is a large mental component to it to divert from what we have been told and the emotions that will try to surface. Most feel ownership of their spouse's sexual pleasure and that will not work in my kind of marriage. In fact, if you read the article you will learn that jealous can exist with compersion. You just have to be mentally strong enough to not let it interfere. So I cannot judge you even if I wanted to. I have been judged most of my life by the marriage police but they are all divorced now and many had cheated. For some reason they feel that cheating is still within a monogamous framework since it is considered cheating and not a non monogamous marriage. Go figure. Read this.

Why My Husband & I Sometimes Have Sex With Other People - mindbodygreen


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> Dang slkillme, you are extreme dude!
> 
> He is at a crossroads, like most peeps at midlife are. He is going through his second adolescence so to speak. I wonder if he even had his first adolescence at all? Maybe he just did what his family expected him to do. Please talk to us OP. I know my X husband engaged in gambling and drinking before fantasizing about OW and then finally seeking an AP because he was so miserable inside himself, that he thought our marriage and me were at fault for his internal pollution.
> 
> ...


Not trying to be harsh just speaking the truth, his wife is going to find out eventually and that will be the death of his marriage as he knows it. Even if she doesn't find out. These conquests aren't going to fix his insecurities and all he will be left with it guilt. The marriage as he knows it is dead. Your ex is a poster child for this stuff. OP will be their shortly. Relational death by self inflicted wound 

Most men I know in their Mid 40's are struggling with getting older and realizing our youth is gone. The ones with character don't forget that we made commitments to our wives and still have honor to uphold. Most of all we love our loyal wives and know our job is to protect them even if we feel like we are getting old. Life is hard for everyone. It gets tiring to read these post over and over where people discard their loved ones feelings like they mean little more then a candy wrapper.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I honestly doubt that he will care enough to change. It seems that he is out to seek thrills like others have mentioned as addictions. If he is addicted to the chase of women, I seriously doubt that he really feels anything deep for anyone at this point in his life.
> 
> He is bored with life and something inside him is missing. That is why he is seeking thrills. He is like most teenagers that are bored. He just wants to feel something. His wife doesn't cut it for him anymore, his addiction of choice won't either for long. He needs to find the answers that are within and not external. Very hard thing to do. Most of us are not that deep. Hence why we seek thrills/addictions to get rid of our feelings of boredom, fear, disillusion, despair, depression etc.


That is not what a mid-life crisis is though. A mid life crisis is realizing that you are getting older and you can't plan and dream like you did in your youth. Part of that is feeling like you can attract the opposite sex the same way anymore. It's really not about adventure it's about insecurity. Everyone goes through that. It's a test of character. OP has failed.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

sokillme said:


> That is not what a mid-life crisis is though. A mid life crisis is realizing that you are getting older and you can't plan and dream like you did in your youth. Part of that is feeling like you can attract the opposite sex the same way anymore. It's really not about adventure it's about insecurity. Everyone goes through that. It's a test of character. OP has failed.


A midlife crisis is simply someone wrecking havoc on their lives and loved ones at middle age. Most indeed see it as their last attempt to get it right this last time because they are getting old and feel unfulfilled with their life choices at this point in their lives. Some call it sowing their oats, others call it getting old, the end result is the same. If you are not careful, it can destroy what you lived for all of your life to accomplish, and it was all for nothing really as what they decided to throw away was not really what was wrong. 

People who fail at midlife are simply vulnerable at this time in their lives, they lose their moral compass because they are broken inside and they desperately are trying to mend themselves with external solutions that only further compound their original problem which they honestly have no idea what that problem may be, but it sure feels crappy. They just want to not feel crappy and most find a "new love interest" the solution to all of their internal pollution, when in reality, this was just a distraction to the real issues rearing their ugly head at midlife.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Evinrude58 said:


> You are addicted to the attention. *As soon as one of these younger women reciprocates that you find attractive, you'll be a cheater*, and yes, it will ruin your marriage.
> 
> What you're doing is not unlike a porn addiction or a gambling addiction. You keep doing it because you like the high that goes with it. Make no mistake, your addiction will ruin your marriage and you will hate yourself.
> 
> Get a new therapist that deals with addictions. At least you have enough perspective to realize you have a problem.


He's cheating now, E.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I'm a 44yo man married to a 35yo woman and super confused about my behavior. No kids. Financially very stable. Our marriage works, passion has dwindles some, but still strong. We also get along much better now than when we met. So I would summarize it as a great life and marriage.
> 
> About six months ago I started to create online dating site profiles and talk to women. I liked it so much that over 3 month I actually met several women just for coffee or dinner. I was into the thrill of it, not into the women so nothing happened.
> 
> ...





SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Mid life crisis is about not being satisfied with your job or life in general isn't it? I discussed this possibility with my therapist but he seems to think it's not that simple.


This is about doing something that is exciting. It gets the dopamine going in your brain. Makes you feel good. Since you are not having sex, you feel that you are not cheating so it allows you the thrill without the actual sin. But one day you will cross that line.

You say that the spark has gone out of your marriage some. So instead of doing the hard work to put that spark back in your marriage, you have found another way to get some passion in our life. 

But, this is a form of cheating. You are leaving your wife. She's most likely going to find out and all hell is going to rain in your life.

I had a husband who did the same thing. Note the past tense.

Get the book *Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence*

It's written by Esther Perel . Look up her Ted Talks and lectures on YouTube. She talks about why people cheat. And the book is about how to get the excitement back into your marriage.

You are on a fast train to self destruct. The fast ride might be fun, but the crash is going to hurt like hell. And your life will be destroyed.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You don't just want attention, you want validation. 

Knowing that you COULD bed all of these younger women, with probably just a little more of the right effort, is likely a giant endorphin and testosterone rush for you. 

Is it bad? Fundamentally, no. Nature designed you this way. However, in our society, engaging in a closed marriage is a commitment and choice to live a monogamous life with one person. This person being your 35 yo wife. 

You are, IMO, cheating emotionally (and to a degree, physically - because you MEET some of these women) on your wife. All the time, effort, emails, texts, talk, PayPal (??), basically resources, financial and emotional that you pump into these women are not going to your wife as they should... As YOU PROMISED her they would go to her, by marrying her. 

She has no idea what she's being deprived of. She has no idea the lengths you go to, to compliment, schmooze, and make merry with these women. She has no idea what you're doing behind her back, then you come home to her each night. How can you look her in the face? Your behavior shows amazing lack of care for what you do have, yet an unwillingness to let it go. That, in a nutshell, is selfishness and cake - eating. 

So, my advice would be, stop seeing these women because right now you are still a MARRIED MAN. Confess to your poor wife so she can decide for HERSELF (rather than you decide FOR her) whether to stay with you or leave you, get into therapy to learn about why you're clearly not designed for marriage, accept who and what you are, do the upstanding thing and divorce your wife with dignity (if she's still with you by then), and go live the life of a perpetually single man, as was meant to be for you.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

Satya said:


> You don't just want attention, you want validation.
> 
> Knowing that you COULD bed all of these younger women, with probably just a little more of the right effort, is likely a giant endorphin and testosterone rush for you.
> 
> ...


Nope, 'cause he's entitled. And special.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Did you sow your oats when you were young? Do you feel you missed out on something in your youth and now you feel the need to explore what you didn't explore in your youth?
> .


Bingo! I was a super shy teenager and didnt date until I was 23 with really bad results. I didnt care for my partners at all, I didnt know what to do with them. Then I had a couple of more serious relationships in my late 20s lasting less than a year and at age 33 I decided dating wasnt for me and stopped looking all together. Then I met my wife at 36.

I discussed this progression with my therapist (this is my second one because the first one didnt understand my issue at all), we are still working on it.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> You also might see if your wife would be interested in role playing, where she's sitting alone at the bar and you go hit on her pretending you're strangers. (I've seen it done in movies...)


Love this input, because we actually do this. As an example: yesterday wife and I were at a restaurant sitting in a booth, I got up, sat next to her and slowly started touching her leg under the table. Nobody could see. Then I asked her to go to the bathroom and take her panties off and bring them to me. She was intrigued by this, laughed, thought about it and said she doesnt have the right kind of underwear today. This morning when I woke up she was already up but I found her underwear on my nightstand :laugh:.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
This is really quite simple. You have found someone that you care about (love) more than your wife, you. Correct that and your issue will disappear.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Dang slkillme, you are extreme dude!
> 
> He is at a crossroads, like most peeps at midlife are. He is going through his second adolescence so to speak. I wonder if he even had his first adolescence at all? Maybe he just did what his family expected him to do. Please talk to us OP. I know my X husband engaged in gambling and drinking before fantasizing about OW and then finally seeking an AP because he was so miserable inside himself, that he thought our marriage and me were at fault for his internal pollution.
> 
> ...


OMG...that DOES sound like something I would do!!! Bibi, this scared the hell out of me. I do give money to some of these girls, God only know where it could end up if they asked for more, and I did buy a bigger SUV not a long time ago. Now I'm kind of shaking...And yes I never had my adolescence...so maybe thats what we eill be talking about with my therapist next time.
Gee you are so spot on! Can't believe it...I have been trying to find answers for the last 6 months. I truly appreciate this.:smthumbup::crying:


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

sokillme said:


> That is not what a mid-life crisis is though. A mid life crisis is realizing that you are getting older and you can't plan and dream like you did in your youth. Part of that is feeling like you can attract the opposite sex the same way anymore. It's really not about adventure it's about insecurity. Everyone goes through that. It's a test of character. OP has failed.


Well, nothing has happened yet, I never had a girlfriend or acted on any of this yet. I dont consider this a failure...yet. Or am I failing because I have these thoughts alone and talk to girls?


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Soooo confused.


Maybe it's just me, probably is but when I see this, either your finger's been too long on the o button but really what's the purpose? Do people talk like this normally? "I'm sooooooo confused". Come on now.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Get the book *Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence*
> 
> It's written by Esther Perel . Look up her Ted Talks and lectures on YouTube. She talks about why people cheat. And the book is about how to get the excitement back into your marriage.
> 
> You are on a fast train to self destruct. The fast ride might be fun, but the crash is going to hurt like hell. And your life will be destroyed.


I watched the TED talk and ordered her book. I see myself in all of it 100%. Hopefully there is a way to stop the train or at least jump out of it, and yes I will get hurt but not as much as when the train crashes. Thank you!


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> This is really quite simple. You have found someone that you care about (love) more than your wife, you. Correct that and your issue will disappear.


Thats exactly what happened. I have been a "nice" and "good" guy my whole life a prototype of the ones described by Dr. Glover in his books "No More Nice Guy". I always gave everything to everybody. My wife is still on the pedestal and I dont want to leave her, and yet I'm struggling with this new "me". Maybe I have to integrate my new identity with what I already have (wife I love, marriage I love and life I love). This is going to be hard as hell.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Mid life crisis is about not being satisfied with your job or life in general isn't it? I discussed this possibility with my therapist but he seems to think it's not that simple.


LOL...of course he doesn't.

He'd much rather have you keep coming back (cha-ching!) while he dreams up some psycho-babble nonsense reason for your behavior that will no doubt be the fault of your 'abusive' parents, an Uncle Bad Touch in your past, and quite possibly, midgets. I'm sure it will be a hum-dinger. 

In the interim, stop foolishly giving young girls money. Only an idiot falls for that nonsense. Not only is that *ignorant*, but it's unfair to your wife as that's MARITAL property.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You have a young wife that loves you, is adventurous, fun........
You still want more.

Make no mistake about this---- you have been. Heating bigtime on your wife. And you have acted in your desires--- you actually MET some of these girls. But the most important thing is that you've let your mind dwell in these other women. That's as good as cheating,right there. 

STOP, while you still can. Devote all this mental energy into your relationship with your wife.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> You have a young wife that loves you, is adventurous, fun........
> You still want more.
> 
> Make no mistake about this---- you have been. Heating bigtime on your wife. And you have acted in your desires--- you actually MET some of these girls. But the most important thing is that you've let your mind dwell in these other women. *That's as good as cheating,right there. *
> ...


Trying, really trying. And I can definitely do that as I have done in the past (2years ago and 4 years ago). I will stop talking to girls, delete my online profile, cut lose all the ones I text to and just devote to my wife.

Problem will still be there, waiting for me a year later. Stronger than ever. So I got to look this think in the face and solve it once for all. Thats what I'm doing now.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> In the interim, *stop foolishly giving young girls money.* Only an idiot falls for that nonsense. Not only is that *ignorant*, but it's unfair to your wife as that's MARITAL property.


Yah...that I'm very ashamed of and will never do it again. You know whats funny? I really thought that by going shopping with girls (AKA paying for their s$hit) will somehow attract them to me more. It was a seduction strategy if I think about it now. How stupid...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I agree with you. You've got to figure this out. If not, as you said, the temptation will cause it to happen again.
Really hope you're able to solve this so you don't ruin your life.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

One other thing I wanted to point out is that I'm not a duche that is taking any pleasure out of this.
I cry daily about this, whenever I'm alone, I feel like a lady with too many hormones. Typically wife goes to sleep at 9:30Pm after watching TV in bed with me, I go into my home office and do stuff on my computer (NOT PORN! lol), and watch/listen to motivational and uplifting youtube videos, while crying my eyes out. Last night I cried from 10PM to midnight, then went to bed at 1AM, slept 5 hours on average according to my fitbit, and start this all over again. 3 weeks now into my daily night-cry routine.

This thing jerks me around like I was possessed by some evil spirit and for now there is no way to stop it. 

Oh and I didnt mention daily nightmares at night.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The ego can be an insatiable beast. You have been feeding your ego in an unhealthy way.

I have a friend whose H did just what you are doing. Her daughter actually discovered his exploits when she came across his fake FB page. My friend and her H are great people, upstanding citizens, warm and giving. And yet, her H sank into this sordid abyss. He didn't see it as sordid when he was doing it - he was giving young women money and flirting with them & getting occasional sex. He was on an ego high, thinking that he was the **** and his BW was the background noise.

Once the daughter knew, reality hit in a big way. Suddenly, his hot, attractive self looked more like a creepy, delusional old man. He was hit with a tidal wave of shame. True shame, capital S. It was like his delusional world just imploded in an instant. He begged my friend for another chance to prove that he would no longer devalue her.

I don't yet know what she will ultimately decide, but I can tell you how she describes the evolution of her feelings about her WH:

- She has gone from feeling like the neglected, taken-for-granted wife to seeing her husband as a sad, pathetic, broken man.

- She has lost tremendous respect for him & regained some self-respect.

- She doesn't know how to describe any feelings of love she has for him. It's not romantic love anymore, she says.

Feeding your ego in this broken way could bring you to the same outcome that my friends are experiencing.

You are not at all unusual in your desire to be desired. It's really part of the human condition. How you are satisfying the needs of your ego, however, is destructive. You say you know this and are trying to ferret out the 'whys,' as if they are very deep and mysterious.

I don't think they're mysterious. I think acting out the way you do makes you feel like the man. You want this feeling.

Why not, though, try to get this feeling the way an honorable, mature man would? Find something to do that won't make you hang your head in shame when your loved ones find out about it. Volunteer to help others. Find a hobby that you can excel at.

Many things can feed your ego in a better way. Trolling for women behind your BW's back may give you a fleeting thrill of 'wow, I'm so hot,' but it's a cheap thrill that you will regret.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

alte Dame said:


> The ego can be an insatiable beast. You have been feeding your ego in an unhealthy way.
> 
> I have a friend whose H did just what you are doing. Her daughter actually discovered his exploits when she came across his fake FB page. My friend and her H are great people, upstanding citizens, warm and giving. And yet, her H sank into this sordid abyss. He didn't see it as sordid when he was doing it - he was giving young women money and flirting with them & getting occasional sex. He was on an ego high, thinking that he was the **** and his BW was the background noise.
> 
> ...


Love every word of it, this was really inspiring.
I have been working on several of my interests that can fill my ego in a different way than going after girls, and partially they are working already. Spot on about my need to feel attractive and like a man since I missed that while I was a teenager and young adult (didnt date almost at all until I was 26-30, and then gave up). And now this is coming back to haunt me.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Well, nothing has happened yet, I never had a girlfriend or acted on any of this yet. I dont consider this a failure...yet. Or am I failing because I have these thoughts alone and talk to girls?


You are actively pursuing other women. Your wife is not going to think that nothing happened. She will have no basis to believe you even if you are telling the truth. You have destroyed your credibility, and you call it nothing? The fact that you can call it nothing shows you are not thinking clearly. If she was on dating apps, going out on coffee date, and spending your shared money with other men what would your thoughts be? Would you still say it was nothing? 

You are not going through anything different then what 75% of every man your age goes through. You are not some tortured soul. You are having an ordinary common male version of a mid life crisis. If you had been Mick Jagger in your 20's you would probably still be having the same feelings. We all feel this way. 

You also don't deserve anything more then your loving wife. Finally you are not a good guy, you are a pretty crappy guy right now and a terrible husband. The fact that you can do this to your wife and think it's nothing says as much. 

Come one dude, who are you fooling. I don't even think yourself if you are honest. You wouldn't be posting here.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> OMG...that DOES sound like something I would do!!! Bibi, this scared the hell out of me. I do give money to some of these girls, God only know where it could end up if they asked for more, and I did buy a bigger SUV not a long time ago. Now I'm kind of shaking...And yes I never had my adolescence...so maybe thats what we eill be talking about with my therapist next time.
> Gee you are so spot on! Can't believe it...I have been trying to find answers for the last 6 months. I truly appreciate this.:smthumbup::crying:


In total, how much money have you given to these women?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I watched the TED talk and ordered her book. I see myself in all of it 100%. Hopefully there is a way to stop the train or at least jump out of it, and yes I will get hurt but not as much as when the train crashes. Thank you!


OH, you have 100% control over stopping the train and getting off. But you are choosing to stay on it. This is 100% your choice.

Anything about how you did not have some wild time as a teen & as a 20-something is just an excuse. It's a great excuse because it allows you to twist it and self justify.

Just about every person and imperfect life during their teens & 20's. Most do not use that as an excuse.

Everyone who lives long enough grows old. We all experience things like realizing that our options are now limited, that there are things we will never do again; or that there are things that we wanted to do in our lives that we will never get to do again.

But most people do not destroy our lives and the people we love acting out.

You are doing what you are doing because you want to do it. You do not really care all that much for your wife. So you don't care if you hurt her. What you do not realize is that in the end, you are hurting yourself worse. 

Any woman who takes money from you is only using you to get money. She could care less about you.

Please tell your wife that you have been dating a lot of women. She deserves the right to decide what she wants to do with her life. Why do you think that you have the right to make unilateral decisions and do things like date, but your wife does not have the right to decide her own life based on the facts that you are hiding from her?

Again, you not doing this because you were some poor deprived teen/20-something. You are doing it because you want to and you are going to do what you want to do no matter who it hurts.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> One other thing I wanted to point out is that I'm not a duche that is taking any pleasure out of this.
> I cry daily about this, whenever I'm alone, I feel like a lady with too many hormones. Typically wife goes to sleep at 9:30Pm after watching TV in bed with me, I go into my home office and do stuff on my computer (NOT PORN! lol), and watch/listen to motivational and uplifting youtube videos, while crying my eyes out. Last night I cried from 10PM to midnight, then went to bed at 1AM, slept 5 hours on average according to my fitbit, and start this all over again. 3 weeks now into my daily night-cry routine.
> 
> This thing jerks me around like I was possessed by some evil spirit and for now there is no way to stop it.
> ...


You cry every night for hours about this? When do you get the time to chat up these women and then date them?

If you are really crying like this, you need to see a medical doctor and a psychiatrist. You need anti-depressants. And you might also have developed OCD and that might be what is driving you to spend time online looking for women and dating them. Go get meds.

Then you are going to have to get the physiatrist to mediate a meeting with your wife and tell her what is going on. Why? Because if you are going to stop doing this, you need for her to know that you have a mental health issue. In order to protect yourself and your marriage from this destructive behavior, you need for your wife to know so she can help you structure your marriage so that it's hard for you to return to this behavior.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Dude, the young women are like your drug dealers. You get dopamine, your drug of choice that gives you a high. 

The women get money. And behind your back call you a sucker, loser and laugh at you. 

Really. 

Don't do that.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Totally agree with you.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

blueinbr said:


> Dude, the young women are like your drug dealers. You get dopamine, your drug of choice that gives you a high.
> 
> The women get money. And behind your back call you a sucker, loser and laugh at you.
> 
> ...


I stopped doing that it was super stupid.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> You cry every night for hours about this? When do you get the time to chat up these women and then date them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




OP

Ele is right. Go see your family doctor to start. Zoloft does wonders. It helps with what you are going though. I know. 

Zoloft takes about 2 weeks to kick in. Get your doc to prescribe low dosage xanax in the interim.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Manchester said:


> Drugs should be avoided except last resort.
> 
> They don't even KNOW what sort of permanent damage they do to your head.
> 
> ...


Yeah exactly. I'm not going to take drugs just because I have a nice cry about my situation in the evening. People cry to vent...is that so horrible and automatically puts you in a looney bin? 

*I'm really sorry everybody, I didn't realize that this sections of the forum called "Coping with Infedelity" was only for people who have been cheat on, not the cheaters or people trying to make sense out of their infedelity. That's alright. I got some really cool insights. 
Thank you everybody.*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yeah exactly. I'm not going to take drugs just because I have a nice cry about my situation in the evening. People cry to vent...is that so horrible and automatically puts you in a looney bin?
> 
> *I'm really sorry everybody, I didn't realize that this sections of the forum called "Coping with Infedelity" was only for people who have been cheat on, not the cheaters or people trying to make sense out of their infedelity. That's alright. I got some really cool insights.
> Thank you everybody.*


You did not say you had a nice cry one night. You said that you have been crying for hours every night for weeks. That’s a very different thing. If what you wrote is true, you are falling apart emotionally, probably in a depression. And seeing a medical doctor and physiatrist will help determine that.

Or were you exaggerating?



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> One other thing I wanted to point out is that I'm not a duche that is taking any pleasure out of this.
> 
> *I cry daily about this, whenever I'm alone, I feel like a lady with too many hormones.* Typically wife goes to sleep at 9:30Pm after watching TV in bed with me, I go into my home office and do stuff on my computer (NOT PORN! lol), and watch/listen to motivational and uplifting youtube videos, *while crying my eyes out*. *Last night I cried from 10PM to midnig*ht, then went to bed at 1AM, slept 5 hours on average according to my fitbit, and start this all over again. *3 weeks now into my daily night-cry routine.
> *
> ...


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Manchester said:


> When people are depressed they see things as much worse than they really are.
> 
> He is obviously feeling better.
> 
> Why say to him he's falling apart?


I actually function great during the day, nobody can tell whats going on inside me lol, then at night I get very lonely and I'm alone with my thoughts and things can get a little hard.

Is crying always related to depression? I think I do it because it helps me release tension. But that's about it.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

You sound depressed to me and that is your internal pollution/turmoil. You are fighting those crappy feelings with the high of the girls you go out with. Don't feel bad for giving them money. They were an expensive band aid, but luckily they didn't cause any permanent damage. Thank your lucky stars that you didn't fall for one of these very sly gals. My X did as his first affair partner turned out to be a 27 year old prostitute. So all of the money she took from him and of course me, went to her pimp.

Are you having issues with ED as well? This whole mess of feeling crappy like engaging in risky behaviors and seeking validity from younger women may mean that you have a chemical imbalance that is better termed as Andropause. Your doctor will know what type of blood tests need to be done to rule out any chemical imbalances causing your inner turmoil. 

Please seek medical attention and don't let go of therapy. You just need to find the right match. It may take a couple of tries before you get a great therapist that knows about men's issues during midlife.

I asked about the sowing your oats because I honestly think this is what happened to my X among other things of course. We were each other's first. He did what his God fearing parents taught him to do and he was a great kid and adult. Didn't cause any trouble other than the occasional going out drinking with his buddies after midterms and the like. he was also feeling depressed because our kids were growing up and didn't need him anymore. He said I had never needed him because I was always very independent. Neither of that was true, but he truly believed nobody at home needed or wanted him anymore. Sadly he rewrote our history and marriage and we didn't stand a chance of making it. It was over when he bought that prostitute the first drink. 

He was also showing signs of getting older at 40. He had a receding hairline and his belly was starting to show. Exercise was not cutting it anymore like it used too. He was also having ED issues which are very common at midlife as well. Please seek help to rule out anything that can be fixed by professional help.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I actually function great during the day, nobody can tell whats going on inside me lol, then at night I get very lonely and I'm alone with my thoughts and things can get a little hard.
> 
> Is crying always related to depression? I think I do it because it helps me release tension. But that's about it.


Crying for hours every night for 3 weeks is a pretty good indicator of depression. 

A lot of depressed people can put themselves on auto pilot during their work hours. And then they fall apart when alone and feel it's safe to do so.

Plus, your acting out with the women is another indication of something like depression, OCD, or other behavioral problem. You do these things because they do something for you, they make you feel good. Why? Because when you are out with the women your brain is producing and up taking dopamine.. the feel good hormone. Something Wellbutrin will do the same thing for you.

You never did answer my question about how much money you have given these women. I disagree that you should not feel guilty or bad about the money you have given women.

Between giving women money and spending money on dates, you have spent marital income. You are wasting marital income/assets.

One of my BILs did something like you are doing. My sister was able to go back through their financial records and figure out much of what he spent on other women. When she divorced him, she asked the court to have him pay that amount to her. The Judge decided that he needed to pay her the amount that he spent on other woman and a penalty... see she got the house free and clear as punishment for wasting martial assets. While there is no fault divorce and adultery could not be used in the divorce, his wasting assets could.

I also call nonsense on this idea that you are acting out because you did not get a wild youth. Get real. This entire idea of teenagers acting out being part of growing up a new one in civilization. It used to be that teens were adults and had to work the butts off to help support their family. They married early and had their own kids and spouse. So they continued to work their butts off.

You are looking for anything to excuse your bad behavior. That's all this missed wild youth nonsense is about. Quit looking for excuses. You are 100% responsible for your behavior.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> A lot of depressed people can put themselves on auto pilot during their work hours.
> 
> 
> You never did answer my question about how much money you have given these women. I disagree that you should not feel guilty or bad about the money you have given women.
> ...


I know my X functions perfectly well at work because emotions are not involved. The problems and his feeling of depression occurred when he was at home. Work actually helped him to just work and not think and feel. 


It is very true that he should not have spent money on OW, but there is no need to cry over spilled milk at this point. He now understands that him giving away money was actually very stupid. Lesson learned IMO. 

His focus needs to be on his internal demons and not continue messing his life up over risky addictions. There are positive outlets at this point in time that can help him feel better without wrecking havoc on his life. 

As to the comment about sowing his oats, this is sadly something that men nowadays deal with quite often. Please remember that we now live many more years than before, especially men. Men worked very hard in the past, physically hard that is and most would die in their forties and most didn't make it to fifty. That is not the case now. Men live well over 70 now. Hence why now we know a little more about male menopause/ andropause. 

It's just as real as women's menopause and adolescence. It's something all of us have to go through and some of us have a hard time getting through it. I only wish there was a lot more information out there in regards to male menopause just like there is a ton of info for us women about menopause. Men would not feel so confused, alone and depressed at this time in their lives. It would be easier for them to seek help from professionals and of course other men that have gone through these times and navigated midlife with experience that didn't destroy their lives and hurt themselves and their loved ones in its wake.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bibi1031 said:


> I know my X functions perfectly well at work because emotions are not involved. The problems and his feeling of depression occurred when he was at home. Work actually helped him to just work and not think and feel.
> 
> It is very true that he should not have spent money on OW, but there is no need to cry over spilled milk at this point. He now understands that him giving away money was actually very stupid. Lesson learned IMO.
> 
> ...


He is has been cheating on his wife. Do we now excuse all cheating as mid life crisis? Dating other women and giving them martial assets is cheating--emotional cheating at the very least.

"women's menopause and adolescence"???? What does a woman's adolescence have to do with her menopause? Nothing. Menopause is a physical condition that every woman who lives long enough goes through. It does not matter what her adolescence was like, she’s going to go through menopause… even if she was wild and sewed all the wild oats in the world, she’s going to have a menopause. Or even if she was a virgin saint, a nun, and never had sex, she’s going to go through menopause.

Trying to equate what we call a mid-life crisis to the physical changes that a woman goes through at menopause makes no sense.

Women also age and deal with the same things that men deal with as they age, things such as realizing that there are things that they will never get to do again, that the things they can look forward to in life are very diminished, failing healthy, etc. 

Some men and women go through this acting out in a destructive manner that we call 'midlife crisis'. But that does not excuse their bad choices, cheating, hurting their spouse, etc. Not having a wild enough youth is no excuse. 

I also find it very hard to believe that the OP picked up women online, took them out shopping, gave them cash, and took them out to dinner and it was all platonic and no sex. It sounds like he did this with a lot of women. And he never did anything sexual with any of them? Not believable.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> "women's menopause and adolescence"???? What does a woman's adolescence have to do with her menopause? Nothing. Menopause is a physical condition that every woman who lives long enough goes through.
> 
> 
> Trying to equate what we call a mid-life crisis to the physical changes that a woman goes through at menopause makes no sense.
> ...


What I meant by women's menopause and adolescence is that we ALL go through it. Well, men go through Andropause too, yet there is not all that much info about it as we have about women's menopause. It is just as real as women going through menopause and it is just as real as adolescence. 

While it it true that most women go through many changes in their lives, we differ from men at midlife because our bodies and hormones go through a lot once we become mothers. Some of us women also go through hormonal changes due to birth control as well. Our hormones are out of whack and our bodies are forever changed as well once we give birth. That is why at midlife our changes are a tad easier for us to accept that it is for men. 


Most men for the most part don't have hormonal changes until midlife. Testosterone levels drop and estrogen appears in their bodies. That is why men get emotional at midlife, that darn estrogen in their bodies makes them feel emotions that before most were able to just suppress. Less testosterone means that they will physically begin to age. Just like women at menopause. Our bodies drastically age once menopause is done. 

Most people going through a crisis didn't ask for it either. They do terrible things that hurt everyone, mostly themselves! I don't mean to excuse it, but it is a reality. No one wants to have or go through a crisis, yet some do. 

Like you, I truly believe that OP is not being completely honest in regards to how far his dalliances with these women went. Not a major concern for us here on TAM. We have been around the block a few times now to know better. 

I just hope OP does seek help for his issues and is strong enough to look within himself to eventually feel better and navigate this time in his life with better outlets and tools that won't complicate his life or destroy it due to going through it blindly and without proper help.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I actually function great during the day, nobody can tell whats going on inside me lol, then at night I get very lonely and I'm alone with my thoughts and things can get a little hard.
> 
> Is crying always related to depression? I think I do it because it helps me release tension. But that's about it.


It is often a sign of depression coupled with the feeling of loneliness. How old are you? Would there be hormonal changes afoot. Men are often affected too, it is not just women.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Don't feel bad for giving them money. They were an expensive band aid, but luckily they didn't cause any permanent damage. Thank your lucky stars that you didn't fall for one of these very sly gals. My X did as his first affair partner turned out to be a 27 year old prostitute. So all of the money she took from him and of course me, went to her pimp.


This is off the table for me now. I realized it was super stupid and will never do it again.



Bibi1031 said:


> Are you having issues with ED as well?


No, but since I have never had anything sexual with these women I can't tell for sure. I thought about the possibility of not going to be able to perform if it came down to it, but it might never happen.



Bibi1031 said:


> Please seek medical attention and don't let go of therapy. You just need to find the right match. It may take a couple of tries before you get a great therapist that knows about men's issues during midlife.


The guy I'm seeing right now is a Psychiatrist, we are going through all this and sorting it out, finding solutions and meaning. Best thing is that he helps me stay on track and lets me know if I'm about to do something stupid (like talking to more women online). Since I started seeing him I abandoned my online dating profile all together and I now rarely interact with women other than normal life interactions. I still do get excited about the interaction, but it doesnt go as far as to exchanging phone numbers.



Bibi1031 said:


> I asked about the sowing your oats because I honestly think this is what happened to my X among other things of course. We were each other's first. He did what his God fearing parents taught him to do and he was a great kid and adult. Didn't cause any trouble other than the occasional going out drinking with his buddies after midterms and the like. he was also feeling depressed because our kids were growing up and didn't need him anymore. He said I had never needed him because I was always very independent. Neither of that was true, but he truly believed nobody at home needed or wanted him anymore. Sadly he rewrote our history and marriage and we didn't stand a chance of making it. It was over when he bought that prostitute the first drink.


I do have the "Nice Guy Syndrome" too and was abiding by the rules like your ex. Seems to be a trap eventually. So men like us have 2 choices: act up on it and destroy marriages, or seek help and try to manage it. If you just sweep it under the carpet, it will be ok for a while then it will come back up again, unless you die. EleGirl thinks there is a fourth (and only) way: stuff myself in a garbage bin, pour gasoline on me and burn myself to ashes. I take 100% responsibility of all of this, that's why I'm still talking to you guys here. Some, like you, have offered really great insights into my situation.

I caught myself acting on it (call it emotional affair or affair), and I knew it was time to get help. Thats where I'm right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I'm a 44yo man married to a 35yo woman and super confused about my behavior. No kids. Financially very stable. Our marriage works, passion has dwindles some, but still strong. We also get along much better now than when we met. So I would summarize it as a great life and marriage.
> 
> About six months ago I started to create online dating site profiles and talk to women. I liked it so much that over 3 month I actually met several women just for coffee or dinner. I was into the thrill of it, not into the women so nothing happened.
> 
> ...


If you dont want to lose your wife then stop this nonsense. Tell her all of it and throw yourself on her mercy. 
You speak as if you have no choice in what you are doing. :surprise: You do, you are choosing to do this every day. 
Calling it a mid life crisis is a cop out, I have heard so much bad behaviour blamed on that from people in their 30's to their 50's. :|

You are playing with fire.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Trying, really trying. And I can definitely do that as I have done in the past (2years ago and 4 years ago). I will stop talking to girls, delete my online profile, cut lose all the ones I text to and just devote to my wife.
> 
> Problem will still be there, waiting for me a year later. Stronger than ever. So I got to look this think in the face and solve it once for all. Thats what I'm doing now.


Do you have a sex addiction, have you considered the possibility?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> If you dont want to lose your wife then stop this nonsense. Tell her all of it and throw yourself on her mercy.
> You speak as if you have no choice in what you are doing. :surprise: You do, you are choosing to do this every day.
> Calling it a mid life crisis is a cop out, I have heard so much bad behaviour blamed on that from people in their 30's to their 50's. :|
> 
> You are playing with fire.


Hi Diana,
thank you, I know I have a choice and most of the destructive behavior is under control now, but still struggling with it. It's really hard but I'm getting help. I'm 100% responsible for this and dont blame it on a mid life crisis.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Well, nothing has happened yet, I never had a girlfriend or acted on any of this yet. I dont consider this a failure...yet. Or am I failing because I have these thoughts alone and talk to girls?


and ..."gee you are so spot on!" 

seems all rather fine and dandy?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

aine said:


> Do you have a sex addiction, have you considered the possibility?


I have thought about it but neither my therapist or I think I do. If I had a sexual addiction I would be looking for women to have sex with, what I'm looking for is to connect with them on any level. Even a deeper conversation at starbucks with a stranger does the trick even if it doesn't lead to phone number exchange.

In some way it does work like addiction because I look for more all the times, but I dont go into withdrawals when I dont talk to women.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

aine said:


> and ..."gee you are so spot on!"
> 
> seems all rather fine and dandy?


No it's not, thats why I'm discussing it here, looking for insights and help. All I'm saying is that I have never touched, kissed, been touched or been kissed or had sex with anybody else but my wife.

However somebody pointed out that sooner or later it will happen if I continue. And they are right.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> No it's not, thats why I'm discussing it here, looking for insights and help. All I'm saying is that I have never touched, kissed, been touched or been kissed or had sex with anybody else but my wife.
> 
> However somebody pointed out that sooner or later it will happen if I continue. And they are right.



What about sexual persuasion? Any potential issues there?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

aine said:


> What about sexual persuasion? Any potential issues there?


What is sexual persuasion? Sorry never heard of it.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> What is sexual persuasion? Sorry never heard of it.


So sorry, I meant to say sexual orientation, not thinking straight today, no pun intended.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Manchester said:


> You have the nice guy syndrome but instead of being nice to your wife you're nice to all these women you take out on dates.
> 
> No wonder you spent so much money and have nothing to show for it!
> 
> Are you nice to guys too? I could use a free dinner and some cash.


Ahaha as a matter of fact I take my male friends out to dinners too sometimes. Of course the vibe is very different but still.
I was referring to a problem than many men have called "Nice guy syndrome" Basically to be too accommodating of other's needs before one own's needs.

http://www.drglover.com/no-more-mr-nice-guy.html

Contrary to popular believe, men that show this pattern of behaviors are nothing like "nice", but they work silently in the background to take advantage of others, especially sexually and emotionally through something called "Covert Contracts".

If you ask my wife, I'm the best husband on earth...see how deep my deception has gone?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

aine said:


> So sorry, I meant to say sexual orientation, not thinking straight today, no pun intended.


You mean if I'm attracted to men? No just women.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

aine said:


> Do you have a sex addiction, have you considered the possibility?


He said he isnt having sex with these women.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, it sounds to me like you might have a bit of an addictive personality, combined with poor impulse control. That would lead you to continually chase "new". If that's the case, though, you will probably have had a history of chasing novelty in all areas of your life. Are you one to take up a new hobby, then tire of it after a few months and move on? Do you need new "toys" or new clothes or new gear of your choice often? Prone to impulse buys? Tire quickly of things that initially interested you greatly? Need to keep upping the stakes in competitive endeavors, or in gambling? If you answer yes to those questions, then it's likely that the women are yet another symptom of your continual need for novelty and your poor ability to control your impulses. You might converse with your therapist about that possibility. There are methods to learn better coping skills that don't involve hurting the people you purport to love.

By the way, the above in no way excuses your cheating on your wife as you have been. Part of being a functional adult is learning to control yourself so that you don't hurt people. If you're not able to control your need for novelty regarding women, then you have no business being married. Know yourself, accept who you are, and be honest enough not to involve innocent people in your issues. Or change yourself so that you're not in danger of hurting those same innocent people. Cheating is a choice you are making. You absolutely have the capacity to choose differently. Either stop it and get control of yourself, or be single and live however you'd like.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

OP, you're 45 and hitting on a 21 yr old girl. What is wrong with your sense of judgment? What happens when her Dad, who is probably the same age as you, seeks you out to discuss your behavior? What BS story are you gonna tell him as to why you seek out young girls?


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

So what happens when your W starts a relationship with a really sexy and rich 58 yr old guy who really "gets her"?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Honestly have not thought about that. Im disgusting i know


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

One time she actually told me that there was an older gentleman that was very much into her at work. We kind of laughed about it and I didnt think anything about it but I honestly don't know how I would feel about it . Probably pissed but I would definitely investigate why my wife is attracted to him and try to understand her. I would feel like crap though


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> So what happens when your W starts a relationship with a really sexy and rich 58 yr old guy who really "gets her"?


yep


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> One time she actually told me that there was an older gentleman that was very much into her at work. We kind of laughed about it and I didnt think anything about it but I honestly don't know how I would feel about it . Probably pissed but I would definitely investigate why my wife is attracted to him and try to understand her. I would feel like crap though


In the end how much do you value your wife and marriage?
When you have answered that question you will know what to do.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MAJDEATH said:


> OP, you're 45 and hitting on a 21 yr old girl. What is wrong with your sense of judgment? What happens when her Dad, who is probably the same age as you, seeks you out to discuss your behavior? What BS story are you gonna tell him as to why you seek out young girls?


while being married to someone else...................


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Great post thank you. So I want to add something about my history so that this point can be understood. I have always been a very thrifty person never had any kind of excitement always save the money and ran my cars to the ground. In other words I was the opposite of what you're describing. Then two years ago my business took off and now I don't have to worry about money. immediately opened to retirement accounts for me and my wife and made sure that both of us had a good retirement . 

I have noticed that since then I started to be more careless I buy myself things I don't need and in general I'm not as good of a person as a used to be. I am looking for new and novelty right now more than before but not in a disorganized way. Also I have never had any kind of addiction such as drugs alcohol or anything else I can possibly think of .

Maybe this can help


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> SuperConfusedHusband said:
> 
> 
> > One time she actually told me that there was an older gentleman that was very much into her at work. We kind of laughed about it and I didnt think anything about it but I honestly don't know how I would feel about it . Probably pissed but I would definitely investigate why my wife is attracted to him and try to understand her. I would feel like crap though
> ...


I actually love my wife very much im just acting up like a kid without knowing why. It makes no sense at all if you analize this rationally.

Now that so many people here showed me that i could hurt her (daaa) i realize the danger im in. Maybe i needed to be bashed and her all your comments cause honestly i never thought about the damage i can create. 

If i stop today completely i will only have to deal with myself. But at this point i think i will talk to my wife about this and tell her everything so that she has a say in it. Scares the hell out of me.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > OP, you're 45 and hitting on a 21 yr old girl. What is wrong with your sense of judgment? What happens when her Dad, who is probably the same age as you, seeks you out to discuss your behavior? What BS story are you gonna tell him as to why you seek out young girls?
> ...


Just compiling one problen on top of another. I know this is horrible. Im giving muself an ultimatum whuch btw i have not formulated clearly in my head yet.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I'm sorry this is just way too much.



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Bingo! I was a super shy teenager and didnt date until I was 23 with really bad results. I didnt care for my partners at all, I didnt know what to do with them. Then I had a couple of more serious relationships in my late 20s lasting less than a year and at age 33 I decided dating wasnt for me and stopped looking all together. Then I met my wife at 36.
> 
> I discussed this progression with my therapist (this is my second one because the first one didnt understand my issue at all), we are still working on it.


*These are all excuses that you are using to try to justify what you are doing. I will wager that in your heart you know this isn't really why you are acting out.*



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Love this input, because we actually do this. As an example: yesterday wife and I were at a restaurant sitting in a booth, I got up, sat next to her and slowly started touching her leg under the table. Nobody could see. Then I asked her to go to the bathroom and take her panties off and bring them to me. She was intrigued by this, laughed, thought about it and said she doesnt have the right kind of underwear today. This morning when I woke up she was already up but I found her underwear on my nightstand :laugh:.


*It is pretty clear that both you and your wife know about your fantasies of having sex with another woman. Maybe you should think about that for a few moments.*



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Well, nothing has happened yet, I never had a girlfriend or acted on any of this yet. I dont consider this a failure...yet. Or am I failing because I have these thoughts alone and talk to girls?


*This is an easy one to answer, Yes you are failing as a husband because of what you have done. There was a story that I read long long ago about a man who betrayed his wife by having sex with another woman. After he thought about it long enough, he concluded that his betrayal was when he arranged to meet the other woman (just to talk to her and have coffee). He knew what might happen and yet to took the step to start the sequence of events that lead to betraying his wife. You have taken that first step, you just haven't completed he journey you choose to embark on. Each additional step will become easier and easier.*



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Great post thank you. So I want to add something about my history so that this point can be understood. *I have always been a very thrifty person* never had any kind of excitement always save the money and ran my cars to the ground. In other words I was the opposite of what you're describing. Then *two years ago my business took off* and now I don't have to worry about money. immediately opened to retirement accounts for me and my wife and made sure that both of us had a good retirement .
> 
> I have noticed that since then I started to be more careless *I buy myself things I don't need * and in general I'm not as good of a person as a used to be. *I am looking for new and novelty right now* more than before but not in a disorganized way. Also I have never had any kind of addiction such as drugs alcohol or anything else I can possibly think of .
> 
> Maybe this can help


At first I wasn't sure about the mid-life crisis thing. I think that the above pretty well says you are in a mid-life crisis and feel like you are entitled to cater to your own whims. That is really sad, because you are saying what you want is far more important than what your wife wants and she stuck by you when you had less and were committed to being as good a provider as possible. Then you at least had honor. 

What I have felt from reading your first post is that you are playing with fire and hoping that you will get burned. It is not uncommon for someone whose marriage is in crisis to "act out" in ways that will eventually get them caught. You are subconsciously sabotaging your marriage in the hopes of having your wife end your marriage so you can take your new found wealth and blow it on cheap women much younger than yourself. You want your marriage to fail, you just don't have the courage to directly end it, so you sabotage it, hoping your wife will do the dirty work for you.

I would wager that since you role play at cheating with your wife, she fully knows what is going on, but just hasn't decided to pull the plug on your marriage quite yet. She probably also knows that you will eventually cross the line pretty soon and when you do, she will feel justified in emotionally and financially destroying you. If I were you, I would stop, and immediately get marriage counseling for you and your wife and serious individual counseling for you. 

Yes, I saw where you were on your second therapist, have you talked to them about what your goal for therapy is? It should not be to make you feel better about trying to sabotage your marriage, or making you feel good about your entitlement attitude toward chasing other women. Your goal should be to transform yourself into a person that you are proud of and that who society will value. 

You need to think about what people will say about you at your funeral. Do you want them to say that well he was a rich guy who enjoyed chasing young skirts or do you want them to talk about what a good person you were. Good people don't cheat on their marital vows.

While you get to live your life as you choose to, you have vowed certain things to your wife. You need to think about your word, your honor, and your ethics. If you want to cheat, you should first offer to work on saving your marriage with the help of a professional marriage counselor and if that doesn't work divorce your wife so you are morally free to chase other women.

Good luck.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I actually love my wife very much im just acting up like a kid without knowing why. It makes no sense at all if you analize this rationally.
> 
> Now that so many people here showed me that i could hurt her (daaa) i realize the danger im in. Maybe i needed to be bashed and her all your comments cause honestly i never thought about the damage i can create.
> 
> If i stop today completely i will only have to deal with myself. But at this point i think i will talk to my wife about this and tell her everything so that she has a say in it. Scares the hell out of me.





SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Just compiling one problen on top of another. I know this is horrible. Im giving muself an ultimatum whuch btw i have not formulated clearly in my head yet.


A final piece of advice. Your ultimatum should be to stop contacting other women period, to set up a marriage counseling appointment for you and your wife. I would not tell her about your womanizing ways, cold, but only in front of a marriage counselor. While she probably knows all about this. You want her to be in a setting where there is an option of saving the marriage as opposed to just you and her talking, before she tells you what is on her mind.

Also set up a meeting with your own individual counselor and set up some tentative goals for therapy. It will help when you and your wife meet with the marriage counselor.


Good luck, you will need it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> This is off the table for me now. I realized it was super stupid and will never do it again.
> 
> No, but since I have never had anything sexual with these women I can't tell for sure. I thought about the possibility of not going to be able to perform if it came down to it, but it might never happen.
> 
> ...


The underlined part is profoundly twisting my point of view.

My discussion with Aine was because she seemed to be making excuses for your cheating on your wife. That is not helpful.

Read the other threads here on TAM. See how much empathy/sympathy is given to any cheating spouse. None… well it goes beyond none, usually it’s complete contempt.

You seem to take no real respopnslibty for your cheating and down play it. 

Yea, you say that you cry every night for 3 or so hours. But I’m picking up a real lack of you accepting that you have absolutely destroyed your marriage. The best way to ‘fix’ one’s self is to completely face the reality of the damage their actions cause.

Do you have any intent at all to tell your wife?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband,

How many hours a week were you putting into searching out women online and dating them? 

How many hours a week were you spending with your wife, just the two of you doing date-like things, aka quality time?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Also, someone asked you if you have ED. Your answer was that you don't know because you never had sex with these women.

Do you have sex with your wife? You would know if you are ED if you are having regular sex with your wife.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Also, someone asked you if you have ED. Your answer was that you don't know because you never had sex with these women.
> 
> Do you have sex with your wife? You would know if you are ED if you are having regular sex with your wife.


 I should've clarified this a little bit better: no I do not have that problem.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

I am going to advise you a tad different in reference to letting your wife know about your trespasses in regards to the women you used to patch up what is really wrong within you.

You may not show enough feelings right now regarding remorse because you are too busy figuring out what the hell is wrong with you and why you are engaging in such opposite behaviors as to who you were which was indeed quite good qualities in a man and faithful partner. 

Your transgressions will only hurt your wife tremendously and she is an innocent party in all this mess YOU created and are solely responsible for. Go to couples' counseling and fall deeper in love with your wife so that you don't ever think that she is disposable, but a treasure that you need to keep and save at all costs. 

I wish you better days ahead and that you find the inner peace that you need and a very loving and fulfilling marriage that doesn't involve other people in it just you and your wonderful, loving wife.

Please keep posting and letting us know how your progress is going! :smile2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I actually love my wife very much im just acting up like a kid without knowing why. It makes no sense at all if you analize this rationally.
> 
> Now that so many people here showed me that i could hurt her (daaa) i realize the danger im in. Maybe i needed to be bashed and her all your comments cause honestly i never thought about the damage i can create.
> 
> If i stop today completely i will only have to deal with myself. But at this point i think i will talk to my wife about this and tell her everything so that she has a say in it. Scares the hell out of me.


I agree, I dont see how you can hide all this stuff. Marriage is all about honesty and openness. Far better to tell her than she finds out for herself.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> A final piece of advice. Your ultimatum should be to stop contacting other women period, to set up a marriage counseling appointment for you and your wife. I would not tell her about your womanizing ways, cold, but only in front of a marriage counselor. While she probably knows all about this. You want her to be in a setting where there is an option of saving the marriage as opposed to just you and her talking, before she tells you what is on her mind.
> 
> Also set up a meeting with your own individual counselor and set up some tentative goals for therapy. It will help when you and your wife meet with the marriage counselor.
> 
> ...


 To be honest if I was the wife, I would far rather be told with just him and me than with a third party there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Bibi1031 said:


> I am going to advise you a tad different in reference to letting your wife know about your trespasses in regards to the women you used to patch up what is really wrong within you.
> 
> You may not show enough feelings right now regarding remorse because you are too busy figuring out what the hell is wrong with you and why you are engaging in such opposite behaviors as to who you were which was indeed quite good qualities in a man and faithful partner.
> 
> ...


If she were to find out on her own she would be far more hurt than if he was man enough to tell her himself.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your disclosure that your acting out is contemporaneous with your hitting it big(ish) financially makes sense to me. Lots of people taste some success and it goes to their heads. They see the success as proof that they are specially worthy and entitled. If they act on this newfound sense of entitlement by feeding their now bloated egos, then there is often big trouble. Just look at the sorry tales of lottery winners.

In my opinion, you actively seek validation from women as part of your new ego, an ego that is full of itself because it has experienced some success and now wants to extend that to the sexual realm. You're financially the man, so now let's complete the picture by validating you as the desirable, sexual man.

I said it a few pages ago, but I still believe you should take the lesson of some successful people who have paid it forward. Stop the trolling, flirting, and sexual ego-stroking. Instead, volunteer for an adult literacy program or become a big brother, etc. Get your ego gratification in a socially redeemable way.

You can do it. You just have to want to do it.


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## Greygeese (May 10, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> Your disclosure that your acting out is contemporaneous with your hitting it big(ish) financially makes sense to me. Lots of people taste some success and it goes to their heads. They see the success as proof that they are specially worthy and entitled. If they act on this newfound sense of entitlement by feeding their now bloated egos, then there is often big trouble. Just look at the sorry tales of lottery winners.
> 
> In my opinion, you actively seek validation from women as part of your new ego, an ego that is full of itself because it has experienced some success and now wants to extend that to the sexual realm. You're financially the man, so now let's complete the picture by validating you as the desirable, sexual man.
> 
> ...




You don't get it. Two things stroke a mans ego, money and sex. Go in a mans locker room that's all that is talked about. Go offshore and work with all men, that's all they talk about. What you suggest would not stroke a mans ego.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> If she were to find out on her own she would be far more hurt than if he was man enough to tell her himself.


I think I can understand what you are saying. However, as I was a man who when asked by a sex therapist with my wife present, if I had thought about divorcing my wife said that yes, I had. I was in a sex starved marriage and my wife would not have sex with me. I have taken vows of marriage not vows of celibacy. The sex therapist started the conversation by asking my wife what she thought the logical outcome would be if we never had sex again. After a lot of avoidance, my wife admitted to the sex therapist that yes, our marriage would probably end in divorce. I was next asked if I had thought about divorce. I told them both that I had researched the divorce laws in our state and had promised myself that I would be in a loving sexual relationship with my wife (or someone else after divorce) by a certain major birthday, but that I had changed myself figured out how I had hurt my marriage and was committed to trying to save it. Did that hurt her? Yes. Was in in a setting where I was committing to trying to save the marriage and had actively taken steps to do so? Yes. Was it a setting where the sex therapist could try to help us both save our marriage (which she succeeded in)? Yes.

From all that I know, just telling my wife one on one, would not have likely saved our marriage as my wife needed to work through lots of issues.

The confused guy has done lots to destroy his marriage and my heart goes out to his poor wife. She needs whatever help she can get to get over this with our without her spouse. He at least seems to have some regret. Maybe it is enough to change and win back her love and trust. I would wager that will be a very tall order.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I'm a 44yo man married to a 35yo woman and super confused about my behavior. No kids. Financially very stable. Our marriage works, passion has dwindles some, but still strong. We also get along much better now than when we met. So I would summarize it as a great life and marriage.
> 
> About six months ago I started to create online dating site profiles and talk to women. I liked it so much that over 3 month I actually met several women just for coffee or dinner. I was into the thrill of it, not into the women so nothing happened.
> 
> ...


1. People are going to judge you. Just accept it.

2. Why is it so concerning to you that a bunch of random, anonymous people from the Internet would judge you?


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## Greygeese (May 10, 2016)

You want to know how to get a handle on this. Gain some self respect, respect for your family, and self control. Most men experience urges, its that honorable men don't act on them. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Tabitha (Jun 17, 2014)

I have a question for you--are you on an SSRI med? Just get on or off one, change your dose, change meds? My husband was on one and we had NO idea it could cause such relationship issues, but believe me, it can. I did some research on it and was shocked at how many stories there are of SSRIs wrecking marriages. They're known as the Divorce Pill in some instances. Takes away inhibitions. Can leave a person seeking new thrills just so they can feel something because the meds dampen even good feelings, not just the bad ones. 

Anyway, just a thought.....


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Tabitha said:


> I have a question for you--are you on an SSRI med? Just get on or off one, change your dose, change meds? My husband was on one and we had NO idea it could cause such relationship issues, but believe me, it can. I did some research on it and was shocked at how many stories there are of SSRIs wrecking marriages. They're known as the Divorce Pill in some instances. Takes away inhibitions. Can leave a person seeking new thrills just so they can feel something because the meds dampen even good feelings, not just the bad ones.
> 
> Anyway, just a thought.....


Hey Tabitha,
good thought, but no, I dont take any meds, not even vitamins


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> 1. People are going to judge you. Just accept it.
> 
> 2. Why is it so concerning to you that a bunch of random, anonymous people from the Internet would judge you?


I'm ok with being judged, but I'm really here to see if somebody can offer an insight into this and help me figure this out. I got a lot of support here and great insight! Love this group of people. And it's ok if some just want to see me dead, its natural. :wink2:


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> I think I can understand what you are saying. However, as I was a man who when asked by a sex therapist with my wife present, if I had thought about divorcing my wife said that yes, I had. I was in a sex starved marriage and my wife would not have sex with me. I have taken vows of marriage not vows of celibacy. The sex therapist started the conversation by asking my wife what she thought the logical outcome would be if we never had sex again. After a lot of avoidance, my wife admitted to the sex therapist that yes, our marriage would probably end in divorce. I was next asked if I had thought about divorce. I told them both that I had researched the divorce laws in our state and had promised myself that I would be in a loving sexual relationship with my wife (or someone else after divorce) by a certain major birthday, but that I had changed myself figured out how I had hurt my marriage and was committed to trying to save it. Did that hurt her? Yes. Was in in a setting where I was committing to trying to save the marriage and had actively taken steps to do so? Yes. Was it a setting where the sex therapist could try to help us both save our marriage (which she succeeded in)? Yes.
> 
> From all that I know, just telling my wife one on one, would not have likely saved our marriage as my wife needed to work through lots of issues.
> 
> The confused guy has done lots to destroy his marriage and my heart goes out to his poor wife. She needs whatever help she can get to get over this with our without her spouse. He at least seems to have some regret. Maybe it is enough to change and win back her love and trust. I would wager that will be a very tall order.


Yeah this is tough one. Still debating if tell my wife and then how, with or without a therapist. 
Today my wife and I discussed very openly with humor and interest the fact that over the weekend a car salesman (I bought a car to my wife) was hitting on her. I saw it, she tried to deny it at first, then admitted she too noticed something but wasnt sure. I told her it would be only natural since she is cute. Then she said that he was cute, but peobably too young for her, or her too old for him (he was in his 20s).

Ok see...people hit on other people wives and husbands and married people hit on other people. That looks an acceptable reality for my wife since she was able to discuss her interest with me without problems. I honestly dont know what would she say if I told her that I hit on ladies. Maybe she will just brush it off and say its normal and tell me: "just dont sleep with them". I have to ask her more directly maybe tomorrow.

I know I took it a step too far by going for coffee with them, but I never touched them. Not trying to excuse my behavior, just saying that since I never asked her what she thinks about me hitting on other ladies, I might be blowing this out of proportion, and stopped myself just in time!
I know that if I had kissed even one of those ladies that would not sit well with my wife.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> The underlined part is profoundly twisting my point of view.
> 
> My discussion with Aine was because she seemed to be making excuses for your cheating on your wife. That is not helpful.
> 
> ...


Gosh, Elle, I am not making excuses at all, there are NO excuses for cheating. Everyone has said what needs to be said in that regard and I was just exploring how a man could go from being perfectly normal to one who wants to constantly seek company of other women while married. It seems deeper than the mere selfishness of a cheater, but in no way am I making excuses!

Mid life crisis, gender identity issues, sexual addiction, etc all cause problems for marriages. Acting on them and cheating (which he already has done) doesn't make them excuses but problems that he needs to find help for after he tells his wife first.


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## curious234 (Jan 28, 2017)

are you a sugar daddy


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> Please keep posting and letting us know how your progress is going! :smile2:


I definitely will, thank you Bibi!


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yeah this is tough one. Still debating if tell my wife and then how, with or without a therapist.
> too old for him (he was in his 20s).
> 
> Ok see...people hit on other people wives and husbands and married people hit on other people. That looks an acceptable reality for my wife since she was able to discuss her interest with me without problems. I honestly dont know what would she say if I told her that I hit on ladies. Maybe she will just brush it off and say its normal and tell me: "just dont sleep with them". I have to ask her more directly maybe tomorrow.
> ...


Oh no, no, no; don't minimize your transgressions regardless of how far you did or didn't go. Intent was there and that is enough to constitute cheating. You seeked more than once these OW. You dined and wined them. You also were monetarily generous with them. You stole time, attention, and assets that belonged to the marriage and most certainly to your WIFE. That is Cheating no matter what you think. Just turn it around and be the one on the receiving end of the deceit. I am certain that you wouldn't just brush it off as just people always flirt with other people even if they are married. 

Did your wife initiate the flirting? Did she openly engage or did she shy away? Maybe she didn't put him in his place for whatever reason, but in the past when I was younger; I had no problem putting men that openly flirted with me in their place. My vows meant something and I demanded respect if they decided to ignore my wedding bands which I always wore. Just because some people accept this behavior doesn't mean it is right and should be dismissed. It's flat out disrespectful. This is something you and your wife need to realize. Your marriage lacks boundaries. You may need to read Boundaries in Marriage as well as Not Just Friends among other reads. 

Make no mistake about it; Your wife will be devastated if you tell her what you did. It's really bad. She will NOT trust you and rightfully so. She probably won't get over the deceit. That is the worst part. The lies destroy trust. She will NOT believe that you weren't physical and the mind movies will not allow her to live in peace. 

Is your wife the independent type that knows her worth? If she is, she will dump you for sure! It may not be right away, but once the shock wears off, she will let you go to save her own sanity. You will not be worth it in the long run. I speak from experience, both from personal experience and from the type of work I do and see what eventually happens once trust has been destroyed. Humpty Dumpty CANNOT be put together again. That is the norm, not the exception. Her trust will be forever broken just like Humpty.

Will she recover, yes; but more than likely not your marriage though.

This is why we are trying to help you. Don't minimize just how much your actions have jeopardized your marriage. It was or is very close to destroying it!


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

curious234 said:


> are you a sugar daddy


Nope because every time I would buy something for somebody it's for free. I think sugar daddies exchange sex for gifts or something like that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yeah this is tough one. Still debating if tell my wife and then how, with or without a therapist.
> Today my wife and I discussed very openly with humor and interest the fact that over the weekend a car salesman (I bought a car to my wife) was hitting on her. I saw it, she tried to deny it at first, then admitted she too noticed something but wasnt sure. I told her it would be only natural since she is cute. Then she said that he was cute, but peobably too young for her, or her too old for him (he was in his 20s).
> 
> Ok see...people hit on other people wives and husbands and married people hit on other people. That looks an acceptable reality for my wife since she was able to discuss her interest with me without problems. I* honestly dont know what would she say if I told her that I hit on ladies.* Maybe she will just brush it off and say its normal and tell me: "just dont sleep with them". I have to ask her more directly maybe tomorrow.
> ...


You did more than hit on those women, as you admit. The most precious thing we have in our lives in time because once use, the time is gone. And the second most precious thing is what we do with that time... instead of giving the attention to your wife, you gave it to women who mean nothing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Nope because every time I would buy something for somebody it's for free. I think sugar daddies exchange sex for gifts or something like that.


You gave it to women who spent time with you, right? So no it was not free. You got something back from those women.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

If your wife was doing what you are doing you would be foaming at the mouth from anger. You don't need to be married. Cut your wife loose and let her find a man who will think the sun rises and sets just for her, because obviously you don't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband,

You are not answering a lot of the questions that are asked. You want input but then do not reply when people ask things that they feel would help them help you.

I had asked you how much time you spent seeking out other women, taking them out to spend money on them and out to dinner, etc.

And then how much time you spend alone with your wife in quality time, doing date-like things.

These are important questions.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> This is why we are trying to help you. Don't minimize just how much your actions have jeopardized your marriage. It was or is very close to destroying it!


I knew my post will raise this problem about me minimizing things. I'm not, trust me. I know I'm this close to mess things up. Love all the help I can get.

My point in my story was that I realized that my wife and I have a great communication about these things. We can openly talk about us as sexual beings. And I'm wondering at this point if flirting for my wife is an innocent action. She did flirt with the guy, I was there and saw it, but I just found it amusing because I know it was just play. Her behavior was very acceptable.

My behavior however, went too far: dinners and gifts...thats pathetic, I should have not gone that far and now regret it. 

This is something that we have never explored as couple: is innocent flirting with others acceptable? Well, apparently, seeing what happened with the car salesman, to my wife it is (at least at a subconscious level)! I think she didnt even noticed...it just happened!

Could this be a starting point for us (wife and I) to discuss my problem? Could I flirt with a woman in front of her and see what happens? I have actually done it before and she would just find it amusing and laugh and sometimes participate.

Just throwing out thoughts.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> SuperConfusedHusband,
> 
> You are not answering a lot of the questions that are asked. You want input but then do not reply when people ask things that they feel would help them help you.
> 
> ...


Ok I'm not really answering any of your questions because you are clearly jut looking for an excuse to pick a fight with me because you just hate me. I'm ok with that, but I'm not going to participate in it.

Wanna talk about time? Lets see...my wife leaves for months at a time, 3-4 times a year, goes to Italy with her friends who are single so yeah...they go to bars and such to "have fun", and I stay home with the cats.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I knew my post will raise this problem about me minimizing things. I'm not, trust me. I know I'm this close to mess things up. Love all the help I can get.
> 
> My point in my story was that I realized that my wife and I have a great communication about these things. We can openly talk about us as sexual beings. And I'm wondering at this point if flirting for my wife is an innocent action. She did flirt with the guy, I was there and saw it, but I just found it amusing because I know it was just play. Her behavior was very acceptable.
> 
> ...


I think it's a dangerous game knowing what you have been doing.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I knew my post will raise this problem about me minimizing things. I'm not, trust me. I know I'm this close to mess things up. Love all the help I can get.
> 
> My point in my story was that I realized that my wife and I have a great communication about these things. We can openly talk about us as sexual beings. And I'm wondering at this point if flirting for my wife is an innocent action. She did flirt with the guy, I was there and saw it, but I just found it amusing because I know it was just play. Her behavior was very acceptable.
> 
> ...



Well, you both have some work to do in regards to boundaries. You lack very important ones. Your marriage may not survive without them. Couples counseling is a must now, for both of YOU. Flirting and allowing your spouse to flirt is playing with fire and you will eventually get burned. That is quite frankly disrespectful. If you can't see it and she can't either; you guys need to read and acquire some very needed knowledge in what constitutes acceptable and unacceptable behaviors and boundaries in marriage. You two are lucky neither one of you have crossed some serious lines that should never be crossed.

Keep posting and realize that we are all human and none of us came into our marriages with the proper tools needed to make our marriages strong enough to not be extremely vulnerable in some points during our journeys coupled with our marriage partners. Hopefully yours is til death due you part and not until life's curve balls crashed it to its early demise.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Ok I'm not really answering any of your questions because you are clearly jut looking for an excuse to pick a fight with me because you just hate me. I'm ok with that, but I'm not going to participate in it.


I already told you that your assessment that I hate you is nonsense. 

You are a stranger on the internet. Why would I put so much energy into something like this to hate you?



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Wanna talk about time? Lets see...my wife leaves for months at a time, 3-4 times a year, goes to Italy with her friends who are single so yeah...they go to bars and such to "have fun", and I stay home with the cats.


I thought you also said that you travel at times.

So were you dating women when your wife was away and/or when you traveled?

I was wondering how you found the time to date all those women with a wife at home. But I guess she was not at home. 

Maybe the two of you being apart so much is part of the problem. She is not meeting your need for companionship.

Or did you search out these women and date them when your wife was sitting at home?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I already told you that your assessment that I hate you is nonsense.
> 
> You are a stranger on the internet. Why would I put so much energy into something like this to hate you?
> 
> ...


Because of what I do for a living, I have lots of free time. I have seen women during the day and sometimes in the eveneing but only when my wife was away. When she is not here, I'm extremely lonely but I encourage her to go and have fun, I mean she is young and wants to explore so...and I love it honestly.
When she is not here, I feel lonely but I also enjoy my freedom.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Because of what I do for a living, I have lots of free time. I have seen women during the day and sometimes in the eveneing but only when my wife was away. When she is not here, I'm extremely lonely but I encourage her to go and have fun, I mean she is young and wants to explore so...and I love it honestly.
> When she is not here, I feel lonely but I also enjoy my freedom.


Oh boy, you and your wife are way too naive and quite frankly have very loose ideas as to what constitutes marriage vows and acceptable behavior. You equal freedom to some things that I can't even begin to explain. It's just too darn loose in both the behaviors accepted and the definitions of those behaviors as being OK and healthy for your marriage. 


No wonder you felt it was OK to get on sites and seek other females. Maybe she has done the same. After all what the heck is stopping her? It's not you for sure as you seem to encourage it with the blind trust you write on here. I remember a co-worker that didn't like to dance, but her husband loved it. Well, she thought it was OK for him to go to clubs and dance his feet til he grew tired. Come midlife and her husband found his new soulmate in one of those dancing clubs. There are certain things that married people are just not allowed to do. It's playing with fire and the burn will turn your naiveness into deep sorrow and regret.

I hope you haven't burned your marriage to a crisp, or her for that matter. Your counseling sessions will be extremely interesting for sure. I hope you find a mature, respectable therapist that can help you with your boundaries and solidify your marriage and make it a very strong, healthy one!

Sadly, it is far from healthy at this point in time and it's extremely vulnerable and easy to destroy as well.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Because of what I do for a living, I have lots of free time. I have seen women during the day and sometimes in the eveneing but only when my wife was away. When she is not here, I'm extremely lonely but I encourage her to go and have fun, I mean she is young and wants to explore so...and I love it honestly.
> When she is not here, I feel lonely but I also enjoy my freedom.


Well gee, it would have been good to know this from the start. All the nonsense about your teenage years and midlife crises is, well nonsense.

There is really nothing wrong with you except that you are not speaking up to your wife (and well that you have been cheating).

See you wife is not meeting your important emotional needs. There is no way she can ben since the two of you are not spending enough time together. So you have been filling that void with other women. A huge percentage of the population would do the same thing. It starts out platonic/emotional and eventually turns physical/sexual.

You encourage your wife to spend her time away from you? Sure some of that is ok. But a lot of time apart, months at a time will destroy your marriage.

There is a book that might help you: "His Needs, Her Needs". In the book, the author says that a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of them in quality time. This is to maintain the passion in their marriage. Since you have so much free time, the two of you could be spending a lot more than that together.

Do you two have any hobbies that you do together?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Greygeese said:


> You don't get it. Two things stroke a mans ego, money and sex. Go in a mans locker room that's all that is talked about. Go offshore and work with all men, that's all they talk about. What you suggest would not stroke a mans ego.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I get it just fine. I'm suggesting that he take a step back from 'stroking his ego' here because he's ruining his marriage. The energy he's putting into 'stroking his ego' by trolling for sex needs to go somewhere else or one of the other things that men take pride in, creating a family, will be worth nothing.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Well gee, it would have been good to know this from the start. All the nonsense about your teenage years and midlife crises is, well nonsense.


I still think my repressed past has something o do with this



EleGirl said:


> There is really nothing wrong with you except that you are not speaking up to your wife (and well that you have been cheating).


Speaking up to her about what? That she wants to travel and have fun? I would hate myself deeply if she stopped to stay home with me to keep me company. I just have to learn to keep it in my pants when she is not around.



EleGirl said:


> See you wife is not meeting your important emotional needs. There is no way she can ben since the two of you are not spending enough time together. So you have been filling that void with other women. A huge percentage of the population would do the same thing. It starts out platonic/emotional and eventually turns physical/sexual.


True true true...very slippery slope once started. It starts more intensely when she is away, and typically I was able to contain it until she comes back, but lately it just overflowed and I kept flirting with women during the day even when my wife if back home. 
On the other hand, if she was always with me, I would go crazy! I mean I also need to see other people and she needs that too. This is marriage counseling stuff, because I now recognize that I dont have a good connection with her when it comes to certain mundane things, like movies to see, places to see, activities to do.



EleGirl said:


> You encourage your wife to spend her time away from you? Sure some of that is ok. But a lot of time apart, months at a time will destroy your marriage.
> 
> There is a book that might help you: "His Needs, Her Needs". In the book, the author says that a couple needs to spend at least 15 hours a week together, just the two of them in quality time. This is to maintain the passion in their marriage. Since you have so much free time, the two of you could be spending a lot more than that together.


I have free time, she does not. She is a teacher  and yes...basically leaves the whole summer. in 2017 she went 2 weekends to visit some friends, 1 weekend to do a march in Boston, 1 week to florida to see her mom then extended it to 2 weeks. So lets see...so far out of 100 days she has been gone for about 30, and the rest of them she works. Gee I didnt realize that! Hmmmm interesting.




EleGirl said:


> Do you two have any hobbies that you do together?


Almost nothing! lol seriously! We like food (not a hobby). Crap now I'm discovering all this! We seriously dont do much together...forget the 15 hours weekly in that book lol. Hmmmmm so many thoughts...at least I'm not crying tonight LOL


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

alte Dame said:


> I get it just fine. I'm suggesting that he take a step back from 'stroking his ego' here because he's ruining his marriage. The energy he's putting into 'stroking his ego' by trolling for sex needs to go somewhere else or one of the other things that men take pride in, creating a family, will be worth nothing.


Dame: it is a enormous rush when I'm "in character" and talking to girls. Feels like a superstar performing on stage! My ego in those moments is super huge!

Spot on!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I still think my repressed past has something o do with this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The 15 hours a week is a minimum. Forget them and you can forget your marriage in the long run.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Dame: it is a enormous rush when I'm "in character" and talking to girls. Feels like a superstar performing on stage! My ego in those moments is super huge!
> 
> Spot on!


And how do these women react?

What do you talk about when you are with them?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> And how do these women react?
> 
> What do you talk about when you are with them?


Lol I can give you a very detailed version of what I do...wanna go for it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Lol I can give you a very detailed version of what I do...wanna go for it?


Sure


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Sure


Ok give me 15-20 min to write this in details so you will see what kind of creep am I..really, I'm pathetic. You can read it tomorrow too its late.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Sure


Ok I will tell you about my last one. Nicole from the mall. Nicole is a very cute brunette about 5'5" and works alone in a kiosk trying to sell windows (go figure).

I usually pick settings like the mall because women are relaxed there and many are bored so talking to them is super easy. Other settings are more difficult.
The purpose of me talking to her is: make her day! Make her feel good about herself, laugh about me or life in general, uplift her soul, entertain her. Lets go for it and see if I succeed.
I observed her before many times and noticed that she has to approach people and sign them up to receive free info about windows and doors. I wanna interrupt that pattern which is boring to her so as my opener, I chose to approach her and try to sell something to her. Let's see if she goes for it. Its a game I play: I like to interrupt a persons pattern so that they will open to me once their mind is at ease.

*The approach:*
I never approach a girl directly, always from the side and never from behind. Nicole is standing in front of her kiosk fidgeting with her paperwork. So I pretend I'm just walking by and I see her catching me in the corner of her eye, but because I'm walking fast she doesnt approach me. Instead, once I pass the kiosk I turn my head like I noticed something I liked at her kiosk, and without looking at her directly (too soon too fast) I pretend I'm interested in one of her brochures. I stop, go 2 steps back, never looking at her (crucial) ,a while looking at the brochure I use my opener: "Are you selling windows at a mall???" I pretend like I'm surprised and this subconsciously trigger a much bigger response in somebody instead of if I just asked "I see you are selling windows." The answer to that is typically "Yep". But if you act surprised, Nicole HAS to explain, and that gets her talking for a while(bingo!).

*The opener:*
Now she is talking and I'm still not facing her (too soon too fast) but I position myself next to her both looking at her brochure. I use this technique of focusing attention of an external object and talking about it which conveys the image of "we are doing something together". Its a subconscious suggestion about the "we".

Her - yes see we have a lot of different models we install in homes, do you have a home?
Me - yes of course I own several...
She lights up because she might make a sale...and by saying that I convey the fact that I'm not just a general joe schmoe.
Me - but right now I'm not really looking to replace windows
I tell her that because I dont want her to be too excited about the sale but about the conversation.
Me - What I really do is that I'm a "pen sales man" on break, and I'm not supposed to stop here and chat with cute girls because my boss might see me"
I'm deliberately being funny so that she can relax and think of me more as a fun guy than a customer. I take my pen out of my pocket and show it to her: See, I'm not BSing you! I say.
She laughs because she knows I'm joking but she loves the joke and the fact I'm being an ass.
Her - (laughing) I know you dont sell pens for a living, so what do you really do?
Ok this is called an IOI Indicator of interest. You get 3 of these, she officially likes you. So I got one.
Me - (I take advantage of her question and will infer I'm a safe and secure men without saying it...watch me) I used to be inreal estate and own apartment buildings, but I sold it all and now I develop software and invest money in internet companies. Its less hassle and leaves me free time."
By saying that I inferred a lot of stuff, but mainly what I said was "I'm a secure and accomplished man". She likes it and we start to create....

*...Rapport.*
She turns her body towards mine and slowly, very slowly I start turning mine towards hers. When 2 people are close by 2-3 ft apart in public and talking to each other and they are facing each other, it suggest intimacy. I also notice she is shy and has a hard time maintaining my eye contact. This is dangerous: if I look into her gorgeous brown eyes for too long, she might get uncomfortable and raise a wall. I want to maintain this position of facing her (very intimate) but I dont wanna lose her in her own insecurities, so I pull back.
I take 2 steps back so that my arm cannot reach her (safety distance) and Immediately see my move working, because she looks at me like she want to say "hey where are you going" and pull me back at her, and her body slightly shifts towards me. Bingo! she doesnt want me to go, and I have pulled her in again. Awesome. I then take ONE step forward. It's almost like a dance ecept she has no idea what's going on. I'm doing all the leading, physically and psychologically.

her - wow you look like you do have a lot on your plate, maybe I should find a job like yours and have more free time
Me - yeah that would be awesome. How many huors do you work here?
her - only 4 a day...
me - 4 daily, thats not too much, good pay at least...
And I pause here and I bend down a little to look at her badge so I can call her with her name.
me - ...Nicole is it?
Her - yes its Nicole.
Now I got her at her name so I have the opportunity to make her feel good. I take my hand like to shake hers and say
Me - that a beautiful name, Nice to meet you I'm Marc.
And she gives me her hand. While shaking it lightly but firmly, I only do it for 1 second and then before I let go I slightly turn her hand with mine on a side so that I can see her nails and while still holding her I look at it and say:
Me - you have beautiful nails.
Her - she laughs "thank you" and I let her go.
I established rapport,emotional and physical. She blushed a little when I was holding her hand and commented on her nails and I cannot stop from wondering if she has been touched gently like that lately, and if she craves it. Perhaps yes. I do know she liked it because she didnt retreat her hand from mine even when I wasnt squeezing too much.
She turns slightly and with a gesture of her other hand she flicks some hair off her shoulder to her back and jers her head in the process: IOI #2. This gesture is a universal thing that girls do when a guy they like is close by. Awsome!

Evolution
Now we just talk about anything and everything, I have many techniques I use like "cherry picking" to get the conversation going. Maine thing is to keep it light and fun and make eye contact as much as I can.
Depending on how comfortable she is I might make some contact with her shoulder and say stuff like "come on..." and push her slightly on er shoulder like to make her lose balance. I observe er reaction very closely, each inch or movement coming from her body is 100% important to me: its her language telling me, stay I like this, go away I'm tired or you are boring me. While talking about BS I also observe her feet: they tell you where she feels comfortable. If she turns her feet away from you you are boring her and she wants out. feet toward you, you are still in and keep talking.

And so on and so on. It can go anywhere from there, phone number sometimes.
Then I have my closer and goodbye with "anchor". I might tell you about it some other time.

Is this horrible? Am I a monster...I dunno.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Ok I will tell you about my last one. Nicole from the mall. Nicole is a very cute brunette about 5'5" and works alone in a kiosk trying to sell windows (go figure).
> 
> I usually pick settings like the mall because women are relaxed there and many are bored so talking to them is super easy. Other settings are more difficult.
> The purpose of me talking to her is: make her day! Make her feel good about herself, laugh about me or life in general, uplift her soul, entertain her. Lets go for it and see if I succeed.
> ...


Do you have your wedding ring on when you met them?

Basically you are leading these women on for you own ego. You are at great risk of loosing the woman who you say you love.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Do you have your wedding ring on when you met them?
> 
> Basically you are leading these women on for you own ego. You are at great risk of loosing the woman who you say you love.


Yes I have my ring. Always. Yeah I know, thats why I wanna stop. Women love it, I love it...it can only lead to disaster. Nvertheless...this is how it goes. EleGirl asked me to be specific, so there it is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Ok I will tell you about my last one. Nicole from the mall. Nicole is a very cute brunette about 5'5" and works alone in a kiosk trying to sell windows (go figure).
> 
> I usually pick settings like the mall because women are relaxed there and many are bored so talking to them is super easy. Other settings are more difficult.
> The purpose of me talking to her is: make her day! Make her feel good about herself, laugh about me or life in general, uplift her soul, entertain her. Lets go for it and see if I succeed.
> ...


You are a con man. 

If you actually do pay that much attention to each movement of hers, etc, you are simply a con man working a mark. Your con it to get her to play into your self-admiration game.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You are a con man.
> 
> If you actually do pay that much attention to each movement of hers, etc, you are simply a con man working a mark. Your con it to get her to play into your self-admiration game.


A con man is somebody that cheats a mark out of his/her money by manipulating the reality. But really I dont have a precise agenda when I do this. Often times, I dont really want anything except being social and observe. Many times I dont want their phone number at all. To call, text? And then what? Its more of a fun pointless game.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yes I have my ring. Always. Yeah I know, thats why I wanna stop. Women love it, I love it...it can only lead to disaster. Nvertheless...this is how it goes. EleGirl asked me to be specific, so there it is.


I'd love to talk to these women you hit on like this. My bet is that while they have a bit of fun with the flirting, that they can see right through you and are not all that impressed.

I've had guys approach me the way you spell this out. It feels contrived and self centered. A few minutes of it can be fun. But it's clear what it is. Some guy who thinks he's really cool and working his own ego.

Sure there are some naive women who will fall for a script like this. But they tend to be young women who are still learning about what's out there in the world.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I'd love to talk to these women you hit on like this. My bet is that while they have a bit of fun with the flirting, that they can see right through you and are not all that impressed.
> 
> I've had guys approach me the way you spell this out. It feels contrived and self centered. A few minutes of it can be fun. But it's clear what it is. Some guy who thinks he's really cool and working his own ego.
> 
> Sure there are some naive women who will fall for a script like this. But they tend to be young women who are still learning about what's out there in the world.


Yes super true. In fact if I see a woman sees through the game, I go away. She will not not enjoy it at all. However I have talked like this to women of all ages some in their 60s, and they liked it. Or maybe they were just lonely, I dont know.
What I know is that when I leave I know they enjoyed it, and thats all it counts. Yes its a 101% ego thing for me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> A con man is somebody that cheats a mark out of his/her money by manipulating the reality. But really I dont have a precise agenda when I do this. Often times, I dont really want anything except being social and observe. Many times I dont want their phone number at all. To call, text? And then what? Its more of a fun pointless game.


A con can be for any purpose. The idea is to get what you want out of the con. What you want to show off that you are an accomplished man with lots of money (own several houses) and you want the admiration of the younger women. Not all payoff are in money. You are cheating her because it's not sincere. It's game you play. At this point, if that's the extent of it, she's not losing much except a few minutes of her time.

But then you said that you take some of them out to dinner, etc. So you are taking up more of their time to get your self-admiration kick.

When you take some of these women out to dinner, or shopping, do you pick them up at their home, drive them to dinner/shopping and then drop them back at their place? Or do they all drive their own vehicles to meet you and leave on their own?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> When you take some of these women out to dinner, or shopping, do you pick them up at their home, drive them to dinner/shopping and then drop them back at their place? Or do they all drive their own vehicles to meet you and leave on their own?


They always drive themselves to the location We meet there. I never pick up any women let alone take them in my car. They will never agree to that, they dont know me. And I dont really want to do that.

One lady texted me 5 minutes before meeting with me at a mall "are you sure you are not a serial killer???" lol I didnt text back.

I know I know...EleGirl...this is horrible! See the trap I'm in? I'm not a bad guy I swear I'm just flying on this ego trip and cant seem to be able to stop it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yes super true. In fact if I see a woman sees through the game, I go away. She will not not enjoy it at all. However I have talked like this to women of all ages some in their 60s, and they liked it. Or maybe they were just lonely, I dont know.
> 
> What I know is that when I leave I know they enjoyed it, and thats all it counts. Yes its a 101% ego thing for me.


They probably would have just enjoyed a talk with anyone who was pleasant. I talk to a lot of people when I am out in shopping, etc. I enjoy the social interaction. It certainly does not require either of us size up each other's every move, that we have a script, it's just natural.

You are bored. You are lonely. You have won the jackpot and now don't know what to do with yourself. 

You know what you need? Some hobbies that do not entail you conning people like that. Do something like take up scuba diving, it will occupy your mind to learn something new. Maybe your wife could join you. I have some friends who did this years ago. Since then they have taken a few vacations a year together to scuba dive all over the world. They have bought expensive cameras and have the most amazing videos to show when they return.

OR go out and find a cause that helps people. Someone mentioned teaching literacy, or English as a second language. Start a non-profit that uses your talents to help people in need. 

Use that energy for something constructive. You want to get real admiration? Do something useful with your time instead of coning window sales girls.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> They always drive themselves to the location We meet there. I never pick up any women let alone take them in my car. They will never agree to that, they dont know me. And I dont really want to do that.
> 
> One lady texted me 5 minutes before meeting with me at a mall "are you sure you are not a serial killer???" lol I didnt text back.
> 
> I know I know...EleGirl...this is horrible! See the trap I'm in? I'm not a bad guy I swear I'm just flying on this ego trip and cant seem to be able to stop it.


So find something constructive to do to get your ego fix. 

I would be bored senseless if had not nothing really to do and no one around me to spend time with most of the time.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> They probably would have just enjoyed a talk with anyone who was pleasant. I talk to a lot of people when I am out in shopping, etc. I enjoy the social interaction. It certainly does not require either of us size up each other's every move, that we have a script, it's just natural.
> 
> You are bored. You are lonely. You have won the jackpot and now don't know what to do with yourself.
> 
> ...


Working on this plan too, have a couple of ideas. Will post them here if they turn up to anything. I have to find something to do with my wife. That would be great...she is just so difficult sometimes, she seems not to like anything. She says often: "I will come with you, and you can do XYZ and I will just read a book." Well thats not real interaction lol


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Working on this plan too, have a couple of ideas. Will post them here if they turn up to anything. I have to find something to do with my wife. That would be great...she is just so difficult sometimes, she seems not to like anything. She says often: "I will come with you, and you can do XYZ and I will just read a book." Well thats not real interaction lol


Share your ideas even now. Why not? Better to talk about a new direction than this old stuff that you want to stop doing.

I think you need to tell your wife that you need to do something with her, you need to connect with her more. And one of the best ways to do it is for you two to have a hobby that you learn together and do together. 

If you like the idea of scuba diving, tell her about it. If you like the idea of dancing, tell her. 

Shoot dancing would be a blast (if you like dancing) because there are dance conventions and completions all over the country and world. So you two could mix travel with that.

Ask her what she would like to do with you and don't let her say nothing. Do not accept that.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Share your ideas even now. Why not? Better to talk about a new direction than this old stuff that you want to stop doing.
> 
> I think you need to tell your wife that you need to do something with her, you need to connect with her more. And one of the best ways to do it is for you two to have a hobby that you learn together and do together.
> 
> ...


I will be back tomorrow I'm on the East coast its 2AM LOL! I'm glad you stopped barking at me, thats a relive!  and...thank you for your support. :grin2:


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

I'm very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. I know it can be terribly confusing when you find yourself doing things you would have morally condemned in the past, and not being entirely sure why you find yourself unable to stop. I must echo everyone else's advice that you should step back from these girls. 

Examine how you feel when you talk to them and compassionately try to give yourself the validation and happiness that you get from them. Although what you've done is wrong, try not to be too hard on yourself. Self condemnation is counterproductive because you might end up turning to destructive behaviors to assuage your guilt, leading to a vicious cycle of guilt-affair-guilt. It would be much better to try and find what you're seeking from these girls and give it to yourself. Be gentle with yourself during this confusing time. Try to eat and sleep on a regular schedule and set aside time for compassionate self-reflection, as well as relaxing self-care activities. 

As much as you're going to be "barked at" and shamed, you must try not to absorb any self-hatred. Glean whatever practical advice and honest personal insight you can from the criticism, but don't let them grind your self-esteem into the dust. Try not to call yourself names; you have made terrible decisions but you are not a bad person, or pathetic or stupid or whatever else. Nobody has ever hated themselves into a better person. 

Best of luck.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yes I have my ring. Always. Yeah I know, thats why I wanna stop. Women love it, I love it...it can only lead to disaster. Nvertheless...this is how it goes. EleGirl asked me to be specific, so there it is.


So what sort of women are they who will willingly meet up with a married man?


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## Karate4lyf (Jan 31, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I'm very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. I know it can be terribly confusing when you find yourself doing things you would have morally condemned in the past, and not being entirely sure why you find yourself unable to stop. I must echo everyone else's advice that you should step back from these girls.
> 
> Examine how you feel when you talk to them and compassionately try to give yourself the validation and happiness that you get from them. Although what you've done is wrong, try not to be too hard on yourself. Self condemnation is counterproductive because you might end up turning to destructive behaviors to assuage your guilt, leading to a vicious cycle of guilt-affair-guilt. It would be much better to try and find what you're seeking from these girls and give it to yourself. Be gentle with yourself during this confusing time. Try to eat and sleep on a regular schedule and set aside time for compassionate self-reflection, as well as relaxing self-care activities.
> 
> ...


Very well said. You are a very wise woman. Your words even help me (although in a different situation).

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


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## Greygeese (May 10, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> I get it just fine. I'm suggesting that he take a step back from 'stroking his ego' here because he's ruining his marriage. The energy he's putting into 'stroking his ego' by trolling for sex needs to go somewhere else or one of the other things that men take pride in, creating a family, will be worth nothing.




Ok let me take one of your society accepting suggestions for stroking his ego. Needless to say if you told the big brother organization that you were participating in the program to stroke your ego more than likely they would want nothing to do with you. They don't want narcissist or sex addicts being big brothers. Totally the wrong reason to volunteer his time and would not help because the things this man is going through is more about self control that stroking his ego. 

Would you want this person being a mentor to a child of yours if they were in this situation?

I shouldn't have threadjacked.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> As much as you're going to be "barked at" and shamed, you must try not to absorb any self-hatred. Glean whatever practical advice and honest personal insight you can from the criticism, but don't let them grind your self-esteem into the dust. Try not to call yourself names; you have made terrible decisions but you are not a bad person, or pathetic or stupid or whatever else. Nobody has ever hated themselves into a better person.
> 
> Best of luck.


Thank you darling, I really appreciate, omg you are such an ancient soul! There was only one person here that "barked" at me but we got that sorted out now. She is actually pretty sweet and offers lots of help. Who knew!

I should have said this earlier but I'm as seductive and sexual with my wife as I am with these girls, well, with my wife we actually act on it much more deeply. I touch my wife "inappropriately" all the times, even in public. She has gotten used to it now and enjoys it a lot. She and I are good friends, and I cherish her and protect her in every possible way, leaving her free to do and experience whatever she wants. I told her many times that if I dont satisfy her at some point she CAN have a boyfriend as long as she stays with me. She just laughs, and says "no". But really we dont have issues. This is not a classic situation where the husband and wife fight like crazy all day long, hate each other but cannot get a divorce because of the kids, so he goes out ad has sex with other women. My situation is quiet the opposite.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Greygeese said:


> Ok let me take one of your society accepting suggestions for stroking his ego. Needless to say if you told the big brother organization that you were participating in the program to stroke your ego more than likely they would want nothing to do with you. They don't want narcissist being big brothers. Totally the wrong reason to volunteer his time and would not help because the things this man is going through is more about self control that stroking his ego.
> 
> Would you want this person being a mentor to a child of yours if they were in this situation?
> 
> I shouldn't have threadjacked.


Exactly my thoughts about volunteering: I would just use it as a pretext to talk to women. As a matter of fact I almost started vlunteer at a local shelter, but seen the enormous amount of cute young women I thouhgt it would be a bad idea!

We went to a shelter and there was a special room where they had like 30 kittens. Wife and I love cats so we just sat on the floor and played with them...WITH OTHER 4 YOUNG GIRLS. Needless to say I was looking more at the girls than the kittens.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Exactly my thoughts about volunteering: I would just use it as a pretext to talk to women. As a matter of fact I almost started vlunteer at a local shelter, but seen the enormous amount of cute young women I thouhgt it would be a bad idea!
> 
> We went to a shelter and there was a special room where they had like 30 kittens. Wife and I love cats so we just sat on the floor and played with them...WITH OTHER 4 YOUNG GIRLS. Needless to say I was looking more at the girls than the kittens.


Listen you have reached the age where your afraid your over the hill and nobody would want you. Your probably bored in your marriage and looking to get that feeling back of courtship back you felt when you and your wife first met. You have reached your goals for business, you have money now and you've realized that career is an empty goal, its mostly just a means to get money. I have been there. Try to revive those feelings with your wife. I am not sure how I did it but I did. She thought I was crazy at first, but she has realized its for real.

You have to realize that your not going to have happiness pursuing what your doing. It feels great at first, but the consequences are devastating. Go get some IC and let them work you through it.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> So what sort of women are they who will willingly meet up with a married man?


Diana that is an excellent point: I can go in really deep details with you about this. Over the years I discovered how this works.

Surprisingly it's not the women or their kind that matters. They dont do anything to provoke this, they even resist this many times. Let me give you an example.

Lets say you like shoes. You are walking down the street thinking whatever thoughts you are thinking, preoccupations, angers and pleasantries, and you are walking by this really nicely lit window with a pair of shoes in it that have never noticed before. (metaphorically the shoes being me).

You go past the window but you stop and go back to look at the shoes, and start thinking that you really like them! The color is right, the shape is soooo sexy, you know you would look super good in them, price is ok. So now you are pondering, and while you do that, you experience several emotions inside you. While you CAN stop yourself from buying them, you CANNOT stop your emotions about the shoes.
Thats seduction at it best.

Now when I talk to these women, they have no idea what am I doing. They think I'm just a funny easy going guy talking to them, (when I'm at the mall almost all of them ask me where do I work at the mall, cause I look like I'm on break trying to have some fun) like the shoes, they were just sitting there...nothing special. Then I lead the conversation, the tone, the body language (like color shape and style of the shoes) and most of the times women just react to that with emotions. Could be a student, a single mother, a bystander trying not to spill coffee on herself lol it doesnt really matter. People in general (guys too!!!) respond emotionally to you IF you know what to say and how to say it.

They might notice the ring or not, but there is nothing wrong in being married and make casual conversation with a stranger, right? This is diabolic because we all know I'm not just making conversation, I'm trying to elicit those emotions inside a woman so that she will be drawn to me. And it works, even too well. I have very strict rules about who NOT to talk to for this very same reason.

I do have some personal statistics about how different age groups respond, different settings respond (IE mothers with kids or singe women, their preference in clothing even political orientation)

At the end of the day I have no agenda. Its a game I love to play, and we both always win. I get my thrill, she gets a cute guy that came out of nowhere talking to her with respect, love, admiration fun and laughter. She feels all those emotions that hes not felt since high school and will probably use them and remember them next time she has sex.

Oh and I tell my wife about many of these interaction!!! She thinks it's hilarious mostly because my renewed social skills allow her to kind of show me off around her friends and family who have boring, socially incapable partners or husbands and some even abusive. My wifes friends always tell her that she is super lucky to have found me...they all wish they had a husband like me. (ego boost...)
We are going to a birthday party with her friend on Sat. Cant wait!


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

giddiot said:


> Listen you have reached the age where your afraid your over the hill and nobody would want you. Your probably bored in your marriage and looking to get that feeling back of courtship back you felt when you and your wife first met. You have reached your goals for business, you have money now and you've realized that career is an empty goal, its mostly just a means to get money. I have been there. Try to revive those feelings with your wife. I am not sure how I did it but I did. She thought I was crazy at first, but she has realized its for real.
> 
> You have to realize that your not going to have happiness pursuing what your doing. It feels great at first, but the consequences are devastating. Go get some IC and let them work you through it.


Yes thats pretty much whats happeneing to me except I disagree with the "nobody would want you". Maybe you felt about yourself like that when you were going through the same thing. No matter who you are, how old, over the hump (what does that mean???) people will love you. I have this proven.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

If your wife knows what you're doing, what you're saying and to whom you're doing and saying it, there is no infidelity. Myself, I'm bisexual, and I openly ogle beautiful women all the time with my husband's permission. He and I have a "look but don't touch" rule when it comes to other women, one we both are happy to follow. Not all marriages have to be 100% monogamous, as long as both partners have informed consent. If you do have that consent, you have done absolutely nothing wrong, and I congratulate you on your loving, accepting, and honest marriage.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> If your wife knows what you're doing, what you're saying and to whom you're doing and saying it, there is no infidelity. Myself, I'm bisexual, and I openly ogle beautiful women all the time with my husband's permission. He and I have a "look but don't touch" rule when it comes to other women, one we both are happy to follow. Not all marriages have to be 100% monogamous, as long as both partners have informed consent. If you do have that consent, you have done absolutely nothing wrong, and I congratulate you on your loving, accepting, and honest marriage.


My wife "kind of knows". She knows I love to talk to strangers, to women in particular, that I get texts from women once in a while but when she reads them they are not sexual. She knows about that lady at the gym who is 38 and has 2 kids in college and I talk to her because she is pretty much the only one at the gym that's not all stuck up. She knows about S. from our favorite restaurant that after confiding her secret crush on her landlord to me now doesnt speak to me for some mysterious reason (shame of being too open with a customer?). 
She knows most of it, and yes I hid some of it when things gets too heated or I get a crush on one of these ladies. It only happened twice, and it's under control.

When I put my colone on I tell her: "I'm putting this one on cause I know you like it....and for all the ladies out there too, you know ladies like a clean guy". She nods and smiles "Mmmmmhh".


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> He and I have a "look but don't touch" rule when it comes to other women, one we both are happy to follow. Not all marriages have to be 100% monogamous, as long as both partners have informed consent. If you do have that consent, you have done absolutely nothing wrong, and I congratulate you on your loving, accepting, and honest marriage.


Is your husband free to talk to other women even with sexual connotations? How about you talking to other men? Does this rule apply for all possible combinations? Just curious.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Is your husband free to talk to other women even with sexual connotations? How about you talking to other men? Does thips rule apply for all possible combinations? Just curious.


No, in fact neither of us are free to flirt with either gender. But some married people consider pornography cheating or consider pointing out a hot woman to their spouse to be, bare minimum, in bad taste. We do not. 

You will end up feeling a lot better about yourself if you come clean to your wife about all of the parts of your activities that you've been hiding.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> They probably would have just enjoyed a talk with anyone who was pleasant. I talk to a lot of people when I am out in shopping, etc. I enjoy the social interaction. It certainly does not require either of us size up each other's every move, that we have a script, it's just natural.
> 
> You are bored. You are lonely. You have won the jackpot and now don't know what to do with yourself.
> 
> ...


I wasnt talking about people just being friendly. I will chat to anyone, but I don't flirt or respond to a man flirting, or meet up with a man for a date. 

In the end its his choice. Stop what he is doing or loose his marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Diana that is an excellent point: I can go in really deep details with you about this. Over the years I discovered how this works.
> 
> Surprisingly it's not the women or their kind that matters. They dont do anything to provoke this, they even resist this many times. Let me give you an example.
> 
> ...


The thing is SCH, I wouldn't see a husband who flirts with other women as anything to boast about. Maybe some of those husbands who you describe as 'socially incapable' and 'boring' just happen to treat their wives with more respect and would never think to flirt with another woman or have meetings with other women because of that. Maybe they have boundaries that they keep to in their interactions with other women. Very wise too. I have seen SO many marriages destroyed when 2 people got too close. 
It wouldn't enter our heads to flirt with anyone but each other. 

You are seriously playing with fire, and you will end up burnt. Its your decision in the end.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Exactly my thoughts about volunteering: I would just use it as a pretext to talk to women. As a matter of fact I almost started vlunteer at a local shelter, but seen the enormous amount of cute young women I thouhgt it would be a bad idea!
> 
> We went to a shelter and there was a special room where they had like 30 kittens. Wife and I love cats so we just sat on the floor and played with them...WITH OTHER 4 YOUNG GIRLS. Needless to say I was looking more at the girls than the kittens.


In many ways you sound like a teenage boy and talk as if you can't control what you do. You seem almost obsessed with this idea of coming onto young women, and don't seem to realise that you can control what you do/say/think. We all can. 
You don't seem to realise the danger of your actions and that it may well end in disaster.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I'm very sorry that you have found yourself in this situation. I know it can be terribly confusing when you find yourself doing things you would have morally condemned in the past, and not being entirely sure why you find yourself unable to stop. I must echo everyone else's advice that you should step back from these girls.
> 
> Examine how you feel when you talk to them and compassionately try to give yourself the validation and happiness that you get from them. Although what you've done is wrong, try not to be too hard on yourself. Self condemnation is counterproductive because you might end up turning to destructive behaviors to assuage your guilt, leading to a vicious cycle of guilt-affair-guilt. It would be much better to try and find what you're seeking from these girls and give it to yourself. Be gentle with yourself during this confusing time. Try to eat and sleep on a regular schedule and set aside time for compassionate self-reflection, as well as relaxing self-care activities.
> 
> ...


if I was acting that way, I sincerely hope that I would have a good enough friend who would care enough to 'bark' at me and 'shame' me for what I was doing. Sometimes a very strong challenge is needed to shock someone off the wrong and disastrous course they are on.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> if I was acting that way, I sincerely hope that I would have a good enough friend who would care enough to 'bark' at me and 'shame' me for what I was doing. Sometimes a very strong challenge is needed to shock someone off the wrong and disastrous course they are on.


Exactly! That precisely what I'm loving about being here. People can throw anything at me. You know this is the first time I got to talk about what role my wife has in all this...I know its crazy, but up to until now I thought I didnt have to involve her in this. Now its invevitable I WILL involve her but in a constructive way.

I feel I grew an extra 3 inches since I started talking to people here about this. It's sooo amazing.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> if I was acting that way, I sincerely hope that I would have a good enough friend who would care enough to 'bark' at me and 'shame' me for what I was doing. Sometimes a very strong challenge is needed to shock someone off the wrong and disastrous course they are on.


He is looking for excuses to justify why he is doing what he is doing. He is not interested in correcting himself.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

giddiot said:


> He is looking for excuses to justify why he is doing what he is doing. He is not interested in correcting himself.


I already have 100 excuses to justify my behavior, I dont need another one. I'm trying to make sense out of it and find a way to correct it.

This is what I have decided so far:

Giving money to ladies (for whatever reason) = off the table 
Going shopping with them = off the table
Going on dates (even just coffee) = off the table
Our common break room at work and interacting with ladies there = only talk about work! Period.
Talking to random girls = still on (but I will tell my wife about every single interaction and tone it down on seduction)
Telling my wife about what I have been doing = super scared but it will happen.

I have made some progress I think. Please anybody feel free to add more to the list, I know I'm missing stuff.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

JUST-IN....
My wife and I are going to a birthday party. There will be her friends that are females.
I like Bethany (in a sexual way too) and my wife knows it and I'm open with her about it. This is the kind of relationship I have with my wife, please read the text.


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## giddiot (Jun 28, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I already have 100 excuses to justify my behavior, I dont need another one. I'm trying to make sense out of it and find a way to correct it.
> 
> This is what I have decided so far:
> 
> ...


No I think your fishing for the best excuse to give your wife when she finds out.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

The way you describe your "game" with women sounds incredibly manipulative and you have many justifications for why it isn't and why it's not so bad because you're doing or not doing X, Y, and Z. You may not be a sexy addict but you are definitely addicted to the rush you get from flirting and what some call "ego kibbles". Hell, you're getting ego kibbles from this thread right now! 

I'm in a fairly open marriage, polyamory is very common in my culture, and yet your actions sicken me because you're so quick to defend this as harmless and just fine because these women are oblivious and get something out of it. You're so quick to defend yourself and act like you're getting nothing out of it when it's very obvious that what you're getting is purely psychological and still a real motivator for many. Imagine sending your break down of your interaction with Nicole to her. Do you think she will laugh or brush it off? Or do you think she will feel manipulated and as if you're a creep for treating these women as a game for you to play and win their affections? Like it's some how okay if they're successfully duped by you?

How would your wife feel if she saw the breakdown of your interaction with Nicole? Do you really think that she too will brush it off as harmless or do you think she will be wondering how far this flirting really went and if she can trust you every time you say it meant nothing? You make it sound like she knows and then immediately admit that she really doesn't know when called out on it but yet maybe everything is fine because she likes how social and likeable you come off with the very limited part of the picture she knows about. You really have no idea how she will react until you tell her. And stop kidding yourself that you and her have great communication about stuff like this. She has great communication with you but you have been hiding 90% of this topic from her which entirely disqualifies you from being even moderately communicative about it. 

The reason I find your actions so reprehensible is because the methodical, contrived nature of how you play the game and your never ending bucket of justifications for it is exactly what dangerous people do. It reminds me of the patient my abnormal psych professor had in college who would expose himself and masturbates to women in public and how he genuinely thought these women were flattered by him being driven crazy by them when in reality they felt violated. Or the band who was pranked into having the best gig of their lives when a group of volunteers showed up with their band tees and knew all of the words to their songs but weren't really fans. They were devastated to find out that they were duped even though the had a great night when they believed it was real. It is far more likely that this women would feel a whole flurry of negative emotions too if they knew the truth and that is a reality that you need to face. 

Think about what you said about how you would grope your wife in public when she didn't like it at first and how you would push through rejections. You weren't thinking about them and their comfort when you did that and you certainly weren't respecting them when they said no. That is exactly the red flag behavior described in Gavin Debecker's "The Gift of Fear" that he tells women to be weary of and avoid. It reveals a deep selfishness in you to put your desires above her feeling safe and comfortable in public. I doubt this crossed your mind when you said you protect her and just because she likes it now doesn't make up for the fact that you did it X number of times knowing she didn't like it. Do you know what sexually touching someone who doesn't like it or want it is often called? Sexual assault and it happens to be a crime. Do you see now how eerily similar you are to the man who went to jail and court ordered therapy for multiple charges of indecent exposure? 

Furthermore, your attempts to bring down your wife as another form of justification are also transparent and par for the course. "She's gone all summer and I get lonely." "She doesn't like anything." "She says she just wants to read books when I crave interaction." First of all, she clearly likes books so you seemingly aren't aware of what she does like. Second, have you asked her what she was to do for a date instead of inviting her along to do something she clearly has no interest in? Have you asked her to come on vacation with you or asked to go along on one of her trips? If you spent as much time on figuring out what your wife likes instead I how difficult she is and spending all of this time crafting this manipulative game to feed your ego, you will have a better marriage. I am not in any way saying this is entirely your fault. Your wife sounds checked out if she would rather spend her summers with other people but so do you if you don't speak up for your needs and instead get them met through flirting and going on dates with other women. It's exactly like what is described in "No More Mr Nice Guy".

Keep up the counseling. Figure out how you're going to reveal this to your wife and start living authentically. And for the love of all that is holy, STOP talking about how much this thread feeds your ego and excites you. You need to go on an ego kibble diet ASAP.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Exactly my thoughts about volunteering: I would just use it as a pretext to talk to women. As a matter of fact I almost started vlunteer at a local shelter, but seen the enormous amount of cute young women I thouhgt it would be a bad idea!
> 
> We went to a shelter and there was a special room where they had like 30 kittens. Wife and I love cats so we just sat on the floor and played with them...WITH OTHER 4 YOUNG GIRLS. Needless to say I was looking more at the girls than the kittens.


How about a shelter that helps men?

I disagree that volunteering is a bad idea. There are many things that you can volunteer at that have little to do with women so they would not present you with even a possibility of flirting with woman. And I would think that helping people would give you positive feedback. It strokes the ego in a different way when you know that you are doing something worthwhile.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> If your wife knows what you're doing, what you're saying and to whom you're doing and saying it, there is no infidelity. Myself, I'm bisexual, and I openly ogle beautiful women all the time with my husband's permission. He and I have a "look but don't touch" rule when it comes to other women, one we both are happy to follow. Not all marriages have to be 100% monogamous, as long as both partners have informed consent. If you do have that consent, you have done absolutely nothing wrong, and I congratulate you on your loving, accepting, and honest marriage.


Based on what he has said I don’t think that his wife knows everything that he’s doing. For example, I doubt that she knows that he takes some of the women shopping and spends money on them. Or that give gives some of them money. Or that he is dating some of them, taking them out to dinner, etc.

If what he is doing is so innocent, then why is he crying ever night for 3 hours over it?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Exactly! That precisely what I'm loving about being here. People can throw anything at me. You know this is the first time I got to talk about what role my wife has in all this...I know its crazy, but up to until now I thought I didnt have to involve her in this. Now its invevitable I WILL involve her but in a constructive way.
> 
> I feel I grew an extra 3 inches since I started talking to people here about this. It's sooo amazing.


How do you plan to involve her in a constructive way? What are you thinking?


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

> Talking to random girls = still on (but I will tell my wife about every single interaction and tone it down on seduction)


This is like an alcoholic who blacks out on hard liquor every night saying beer is still okay because it's only 5% alcohol. You need to go cold turkey. If this is still questionable to you, show your wife the Nicole post and see what she thinks. Copy it to a word document and print it out if want to keep your posts here private. Show it to your therapist. Everyone needs to see exactly what you're doing to understand that it is an unhealthy coping mechanism and a symptom of a bigger problem that will persist as long as you keep engaging in these behaviors. If you're serious about stopping this, it all needs to be off the table.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Exactly! That precisely what I'm loving about being here. People can throw anything at me. You know this is the first time I got to talk about what role my wife has in all this...I know its crazy, but up to until now I thought I didnt have to involve her in this. Now its invevitable I WILL involve her but in a constructive way.
> 
> I feel I grew an extra 3 inches since I started talking to people here about this. It's sooo amazing.


That's good. As long as we learn from our stupid decisions they haven't been entirely wasted. :smile2:
Maybe some marriage counseling may help? Or one of those marriage enrichment weekends? 
'The five love languages' is a good book, its by Gary Chapman. 
Also a book called 'Hedges-loving your marriage enough to protect it' by Gerry B Jenkins. He is a Christian but its applicable to everyone. A good book.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I already have 100 excuses to justify my behavior, I dont need another one. I'm trying to make sense out of it and find a way to correct it.
> 
> This is what I have decided so far:
> 
> ...


Sounds positive except the 'talking to random girls'. 
Remember these girls, imagine they were your daughters and think how you would feel and react if a much older married man started chatting them up and flirting with them and even taking them out. 
You have given almost no consideration to these young women and how your actions make them feel. Maybe some of them are embarrassed by it, led on by it thinking that you want to have a relationship with them, or even repelled by it. Not all women are that easily led, and many young women aren't really interested in an older married man trying his luck.They may even pity you and are just humouring you. 
You are using them for your own ego stroking. How about you treat everyone with respect from now on.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yeah this is tough one. Still debating if tell my wife and then how, with or without a therapist.
> Today my wife and I discussed very openly with humor and interest the fact that over the weekend a car salesman (I bought a car to my wife) was hitting on her. I saw it, she tried to deny it at first, then admitted she too noticed something but wasnt sure. *I told her it would be only natural since she is cute. *Then she said that he was cute, but peobably too young for her, or her too old for him (he was in his 20s).
> 
> Ok see...people hit on other people wives and husbands and married people hit on other people. That looks an acceptable reality for my wife since she was able to discuss her interest with me without problems. *I honestly dont know what would she say if I told her that I hit on ladies. Maybe she will just brush it off *and say its normal and tell me: "just dont sleep with them". I have to ask her more directly maybe tomorrow.
> ...


A few final thoughts based on your posts. You love the excitement of chasing forbidden fruit. Each adventure is a slippery slope. One day you will slip and go farther than you intended as each adventure will make going a little farther a little easier. 

Most importantly, I would wager you wife actually knows what is happening. A really good marriage involves trust. I would wager that you teasing your wife about flirting with the car salesman is a subconscious attempt on your part to be able to get her to doing something unfaithful so that you don't feel so guilty about your own behavior. 

Who knows you may be correct about her not really caring and just brushing your skirt chasing off. She may someday look you in the eyes and say screw all the women you want, just don't bring home any STD's, don't produce any bastards, and bring home your full paycheck for me to spend. If so, you marriage is long over as a real marriage.

Whether you want to admit it or not, your marriage is in crisis and you need professional help. Even with professional help once the two of you understand the depth of what you have done, your marriage may be over. 

Get some professional help and good luck to you.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> Get some professional help and good luck to you.


Thank you.

I'm having a rough day today trying to wrap up all this. I might not be adding much tonight or just take the whole thing down. Can I? :|


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## Karate4lyf (Jan 31, 2017)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I'm having a rough day today trying to wrap up all this. I might not be adding much tonight or just take the whole thing down. Can I? :|


Take it in stride a lot has been said on this thread. Take a night off from it all and just have some time for you. You might have a clearer head in the morning. 

Sent from my SM-G928P using Tapatalk


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I think that both of you need to mature more and learn what true faithfulness is. I would never disrespect my husband by flirting with another man, nor responding to his flirting. I respect and love him far too much to treat him that way. If you both carry on the way you have been I suspect that one or both of you will have cheated in the next 2 or 3 years, and the marriage destroyed.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I think that both of you need to mature more and learn what true faithfulness is. I would never disrespect my husband by flirting with another man, nor responding to his flirting. I respect and love him far too much to treat him that way. If you both carry on the way you have been I suspect that one or both of you will have cheated in the next 2 or 3 years, and the marriage destroyed.


Thank you Diana, you are absolutely right. I'm going to see my therapist on Friday and will discuss all these great points with him.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

Been watching this thread and thought I would chime in. SuperConfusedHubby, I have walked your path and failed miserably at trying to correct myself. You are at a crossroads my friend. The most important thing is that you be honest with yourself. From my own experience I can tell you that the further you go, the less guilt you feel. If this life of flirting and interacting with women is something you don't want. Then stop now. It only gets harder to quit once you continue down this path. My only other piece of advice is, if the playboy life is something you want. Then be honest about it. Be honest with yourself, and to your wife. No shame in divorce if you know you truly can't be the man she wants. That's where I am at this point.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

I feel this is not going to be a good night. Why can't I just go back to my normal life like a year ago? Everything will be so much simpler, but no! Dammit! Why in hell did I opened these floodgates? To what purpose? Nothing good can come out if it. Maybe trying to understand the truth is not a good strategy all the times, maybe ignorance is bliss.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

ReformedHubby said:


> Been watching this thread and thought I would chime in. SuperConfusedHubby, I have walked your path and failed miserably at trying to correct myself. You are at a crossroads my friend. The most important thing is that you be honest with yourself. From my own experience I can tell you that the further you go, the less guilt you feel. If this life of flirting and interacting with women is something you don't want. Then stop now. It only gets harder to quit once you continue down this path. My only other piece of advice is, if the playboy life is something you want. Then be honest about it. Be honest with yourself, and to your wife. No shame in divorce if you know you truly can't be the man she wants. That's where I am at this point.


Did you get a divorce because eventually you understood you wanted the playboy life? 
Here is the thing: I love being married and hated being single. So in theory I should be happy by being married, but I have became so good at attracting women now that I start to question everything. "Did I make the right choice with my wife?" "Am I an idiot trying to play playboy?" "What is all this for?" "Am I staying married so that I dont hurt my wife in leaving her?"

It's torture.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I feel this is not going to be a good night. Why can't I just go back to my normal life like a year ago? Everything will be so much simpler, but no! Dammit! Why in hell did I opened these floodgates? To what purpose? Nothing good can come out if it. Maybe trying to understand the truth is not a good strategy all the times, maybe ignorance is bliss.


Continuing as you were doing, while married, is going to be worse than anything you feel right now.

Part of the issue is that you what you describe to a buzz, it makes you feel good. But over time it's not going to be enough. You are going to have to take it further. Just like a drug addict needs higher dosages over time, you will too. So what it the higher dosage in our case? Having sex? Having a full blown affair? 

Since your antics include a script that is basically tricking, conning, women it think that you will up the con. You like the game. For some reason you think it's clever (though it's not). 

You stop it by stopping it and changing your focus. You stop it by finding something else that is mentally healthy to so that you are not lonely and not needed all this fake ego stroking.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Did you get a divorce because eventually you understood you wanted the playboy life?
> 
> Here is the thing: I love being married and hated being single. So in theory I should be happy by being married, but I have became so good at attracting women now that I start to question everything. "Did I make the right choice with my wife?" "Am I an idiot trying to play playboy?" "What is all this for?" "Am I staying married so that I dont hurt my wife in leaving her?"
> 
> It's torture.


You might be attracting women, but it's a pretty superficial attraction. Just talking to some women, or taking women out to dinner means very little. Would you be ok living by yourself? not having anyone who really cared about your wellbeing?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long have you and your wife been married?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Continuing as you were doing, while married, is going to be worse than anything you feel right now.
> 
> Part of the issue is that you what you describe to a buzz, it makes you feel good. But over time it's not going to be enough. You are going to have to take it further. Just like a drug addict needs higher dosages over time, you will too. So what it the higher dosage in our case? Having sex? Having a full blown affair?
> 
> ...


I think I actually stopped it by listening to all of you here. In fact this afternoon I had the possibility to go to the gym and do my usual round to see if there were girls to talk to (gym, starbucks, TjMax and Petco), but instead I chose to stay home and do some work.
One of the girls I was in touch with came back from a trip to Ireland today and started texing me like a machine gun, that got me going again, but then I stopped replying to her texts. Im literally scared of my phone now. It's sitting in front of me, black screen and waiting to light up on the next text and my heart will start pounding.

Tonight though, I think I'm emotional because I'm letting this seductive skill go. Mourning its uselessness and its danger going away. i know that tomorrow it might come back. For now I will try and stop crying before wife comes back from Sewing Class and notices it.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> How long have you and your wife been married?


Almost 6 years, lived together 2 engaged 1. It happened very quickly.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Did you get a divorce because eventually you understood you wanted the playboy life?
> Here is the thing: I love being married and hated being single. So in theory I should be happy by being married, but I have became so good at attracting women now that I start to question everything. "Did I make the right choice with my wife?" "Am I an idiot trying to play playboy?" "What is all this for?" "Am I staying married so that I dont hurt my wife in leaving her?"
> 
> It's torture.


Well....not actually divorced. We're just talking about it. Your situation isn't torture at all. Its unfair keeping her in limbo. What do you want? Look...I'm not like most on here who would tell you to stay because you made vows. People change. Situations change. Its actually unfair for you to stay if your heart isn't in it. You're at a point where you can re-commit to your marriage and everything should be fine. But......because of your lack of experience I fear if something goes physical you will be at the point of no return. One other thing........I know you are probably impressed with yourself because you can get numbers...yeah...thats pretty easy. If what you have at home is good. Don't throw it away over a some random woman. That isn't worth it. Straighten out.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> You might be attracting women, but it's a pretty superficial attraction. Just talking to some women, or taking women out to dinner means very little. Would you be ok living by yourself? not having anyone who really cared about your wellbeing?


You kidding? It will be death for me! I hated being single. I mean life was good, but I wanst dating at all and I felt like a failure in that department.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

ReformedHubby said:


> One other thing........I know you are probably impressed with yourself because you can get numbers...yeah...thats pretty easy. If what you have at home is good. Don't throw it away over a some random woman. That isn't worth it. Straighten out.


I thought getting numbers was hard...its not! Even with your wedding ring still on. 
Tonight is the night to wisen up maybe...


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If you think you're good at getting women, tell your wife what you've been doing, give it a couple of months to soak in really good to her mind, and cause her to lose her love for you. She may know what you're doing and already list it if she's flirting in front of you, actually. 

But once they lose their feelings for you, you'll learn very quickly just how good you aren't at making women live you.

By all means, stop what you're doing and reconnect with your wife. If your feelings for your wife are where they should be, you could not be doing what you say you're doing. Plain and simple.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> If you think you're good at getting women, tell your wife what you've been doing, give it a couple of months to soak in really good to her mind, and cause her to lose her love for you. She may know what you're doing and already list it if she's flirting in front of you, actually.
> 
> But once they lose their feelings for you, you'll learn very quickly just how good you aren't at making women live you.
> 
> By all means, stop what you're doing and reconnect with your wife. If your feelings for your wife are where they should be, you could not be doing what you say you're doing. Plain and simple.


Yes I understand this very well.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Thank you Diana, you are absolutely right. I'm going to see my therapist on Friday and will discuss all these great points with him.


I hope it helps, but in the end its a decision to stop what you have been doing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Did you get a divorce because eventually you understood you wanted the playboy life?
> Here is the thing: I love being married and hated being single. So in theory I should be happy by being married, but I have became so good at attracting women now that I start to question everything. "Did I make the right choice with my wife?" "Am I an idiot trying to play playboy?" "What is all this for?" "Am I staying married so that I dont hurt my wife in leaving her?"
> 
> It's torture.


 To be honest, many men could chat and flirt and get womens attention if they were players, so that's not an achievement at all. 

You know what an achievement really is? A married man who keeps the promises that he made when he married his wife, who treats her with love and respect, whose focus is his marriage, who puts his wife first, who is faithful in mind and body, who doesn't do things that will risk that marriage, who acts like a mature man with responsibility and decency, who prepares himself to be the father his children will look up to and respect, who has integrity and who doesn't play with women's emotions and feelings to make him feel 'manly' and 'attractive' and to stroke his ego. Now all THAT takes maturity and self control and responsibility. Thats takes effort and good choices.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> You know what an achievement really is? A married man who keeps the promises that he made when he married his wife, who treats her with love and respect, whose focus is his marriage, who puts his wife first, who is faithful in mind and body, who doesn't do things that will risk that marriage, who acts like a mature man with responsibility and decency, who prepares himself to be the father his children will look up to and respect, who has integrity and who doesn't play with women's emotions and feelings to make him feel 'manly' and 'attractive' and to stroke his ego.
> *AND STILL BE ATTRACTED TO OTHER WOMEN WITHOUT ACTING ON IT IN ANY WAY*


I wanted to add that in because how you worded it basically meant that being attracted to other women was not part of the picture, but it is, it's undeniable and I cannot simply sweep it under the carpet.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

It's good that you are beginning to realize that you are a junkie. That is the first step in nipping your addiction in the bud. It's gotta be cold turkey dude! No more chatting up gals. You have a problem with this that is very dangerous. It's now forbidden for you to ever engage in this as the buzz you get out of it is interfering with your life as you know it. There is OW (plural) between you and your wife. 

Some men cheat on their wives with an AP, but many cheat on their marriages due to other additions such as drugs, alcohol, porn and gambling to name a few. Addictions, like affairs. destroy marriages because they rob resources from the marriage and the marriage partner. Actually, the addictions take over the person's life and he or she is no longer in charge but the addiction is. Their sole existence revolves around getting their next fix. In your case, your fix is achieved by pretty much any woman that talks to you and is willing to accept your game. It's too easy to get your fix; it's gonna be very hard to nip it in the bud if you don't do it cold turkey. Sorry buddy, but you created this problem by engaging in this destructive outlet. 

Mourn this loss and never seek it again. Seek professional help to help you with the cold turkey thing. It's gonna be hard. You are going to want to dip your toes back in again just to feel a bit better, but that will only cause a relapse and you will be back to square one.:surprise:


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I think the only way to whip this OP is to fall in love with your wife again and become excited with her again. As long as you are wanting this girl thing, you're going to do it.
The trick is to learn to want something else. To learn to want your wife as badly as you want these other women. 
You don't need to "stop". You need to "start" loving and craving your wife again. It can be done.
But you have to work at it and figure out how.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I wanted to add that in because how you worded it basically meant that being attracted to other women was not part of the picture, but it is, it's undeniable and I cannot simply sweep it under the carpet.


We will always notice good looking people, but its what we do once we notice someone that matters. We can look away, walk on, and get our minds on something else, or we can feed that attraction by staring, ogling, imagining being with them, chatting them up, flirting etc etc. You have been feeding and encouraging that attraction by doing all the wrongs things. We all have a choice what we do with temptation, feed it or starve it. Run from it or jump into it.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

I just wanted everybody to know that I didnt post anything since last night because I took a day off from my craziness, work, wife and ladies and thought long and hard about this. 

The results are amazing and will post more soon but tonight I have work to do so...soon and sorry.

However I will tell you this: you are the most amazing, heart moving, caring, *****-slapping bunch of people and I love you all for everything you have said and how much you have cared. I never felt so much truth being thrown at me in such a short period of time, and it felt REALLY harsh at first but I think that's exactly what I needed (maybe, possibly).

Thank you, will update you all soon.

PS: EleGirl, I dont cry anymore (for now lol).


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> PS: EleGirl, I dont cry anymore (for now lol).


It's probably because:

I see the light,
and it opened up my eyes 
I see the light....lalalalalalalalala

Baby steps are lookin good on ya!


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I wanted to add that in because how you worded it basically meant that being attracted to other women was not part of the picture, but it is, it's undeniable and I cannot simply sweep it under the carpet.


Sure. Just keep in mind that there are many many attractive women out there. And both men and women find themselves attracted to others, men probably more so because they're so visual. My point is that there is nothing special going on in your brain that every other man does not have to battle. How you handle it is a matter of character.

You can and will be attracted to many women over your lifetime. But marriage is a relationship of extraordinary care for each other. You have to choose, do you want to be a man you can be proud of in a marriage you can also be proud of, or do you want to get your ego stroked by lot of different strange women? You can't have both.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> Sure. Just keep in mind that there are many many attractive women out there. And both men and women find themselves attracted to others, men probably more so because they're so visual. My point is that there is nothing special going on in your brain that every other man does not have to battle. How you handle it is a matter of character.
> 
> You can and will be attracted to many women over your lifetime. But marriage is a relationship of extraordinary care for each other. You have to choose, do you want to be a man you can be proud of in a marriage you can also be proud of, or do you want to get your ego stroked by lot of different strange women? You can't have both.


Wise words.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> Sure. Just keep in mind that there are many many attractive women out there. And both men and women find themselves attracted to others, men probably more so because they're so visual. My point is that there is nothing special going on in your brain that every other man does not have to battle. How you handle it is a matter of character.
> 
> You can and will be attracted to many women over your lifetime. But marriage is a relationship of extraordinary care for each other. You have to choose, do you want to be a man you can be proud of in a marriage you can also be proud of, or do you want to get your ego stroked by lot of different strange women? You can't have both.


The ego stroking is my problem. And I realized that by talking to all of you here. It goes like this:

1 - I see a woman I'm immediately attracted to her
2 - I wanna talk to her to see if she opens up and responds back (typically she does)
3 (this is where the ego-based-fun starts) I want her to like me so I start seducing her with all sorts of crazy moves
4 - if she responds positively I keep going deeper and deeper and see "how much" she likes me (ego-strokes)
5 - The ultimate ego stroke is the hone number. Why? Cause it means she want me to continue the conversation after we leave.

What I was missing is that it leads nowhere for the women, and for me it's the ultimate high!

I think this is also the reason why I never actually touched any of those women, because I know as soon as I do, the entire house of cards I built of little tiny ego strokes will collapse! And it's Game over! Emptiness sets in, and I will go back to my boring life.

It is a pointless exercise in revamped masculinity.

I'm exploring other options now, like doing something for others where women (and men) can appreciate me in a non sexual way, regard me highly, learn from me, be led by me or just simply like what I do. As an example, on Friday tomorrow I'm training a lady I have known for 3 weeks to work for me for my business. She already works a job but it pays nothing. Little step.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> The ego stroking is my problem. And I realized that by talking to all of you here. It goes like this:
> 
> 1 - I see a woman I'm immediately attracted to her
> 2 - I wanna talk to her to see if she opens up and responds back (typically she does)
> ...


You need to train yourself and get in the habit of not letting no.1 become no. 2.
Many men have done this. Have you heard of bouncing the eyes? Its when a man notices an attractive lady, who may or may not be wearing skimpy clothing, and he immediately bounces his eyes away and walks on. It takes time and effort but after a while it becomes automatic. It becomes a habit. We cant help who we see, but we can help how we respond. 

You need to break that habit, and you can if you persevere.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> You need to train yourself and get in the habit of not letting no.1 become no. 2.
> Many men have done this. Have you heard of bouncing the eyes? Its when a man notices an attractive lady, who may or may not be wearing skimpy clothing, and he immediately bounces his eyes away and walks on. It takes time and effort but after a while it becomes automatic. It becomes a habit. We cant help who we see, but we can help how we respond.
> 
> You need to break that habit, and you can if you persevere.


Lol never heard of "bouncing eyes". Can't do that yet. I mean I can, but I will probably talk to some ladies but not in a sexual way or intent. Just to appreciate the contact and leave it at that.

If I stop talking to women, that would mean death to me. but realizing that pushing it too far is a mistake towards my wife and myself, puts the whole "talking to women" in a completely different perspective.

Will keep you posted.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> You can and will be attracted to many women over your lifetime. *But marriage is a relationship of extraordinary care for each other.* You have to choose, do you want to be a man you can be proud of in a marriage you can also be proud of, or do you want to get your ego stroked by lot of different strange women? * You can't have both.*


Very good points. It shows just how vulnerable and easy it is to destroy a marriage when we become selfish, self absorbed, and centered on self. That is why we have rules and morals to keep us in the right path when our selfish side decides to rebel. 

Sadly he can have both, but it won't last and the more valuable relationship gets cracked open and ripe for annihilation like so many others before his.:frown2:

All that time, love, happiness, promises, etc. killed by feelings and actions that were kept hidden from the one and only that shouldn't have been kept in the dark until the actions and feelings left the WS's heart numb towards their BS that they reached a point of no return and killed the marriage and all that was built with so much time and love. What a terrible loss indeed. What horrible devastation is left behind as well. Only humans are capable of leaving their left behind loved ones in such a catastrophic state without caring one iota how they are able to heal from the train wreck they left in their selfish search of "happiness".


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Wise words.


Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in awhile. ;-)


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> As an example, on Friday tomorrow I'm training a lady I have known for 3 weeks to work for me for my business. She already works a job but it pays nothing. Little step.


Just don't hit on her! Just kidding. I have more to say to you but I must sleep now. Tomorrow, we discuss, the ennegram...
Enneagram Test- The Riso-Hudson Type Indicator (Version 2.0)
https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Lol never heard of "bouncing eyes". Can't do that yet. I mean I can, but I will probably talk to some ladies but not in a sexual way or intent. Just to appreciate the contact and leave it at that.
> 
> If I stop talking to women, that would mean death to me. but realizing that pushing it too far is a mistake towards my wife and myself, puts the whole "talking to women" in a completely different perspective.
> 
> Will keep you posted.


No it wont mean death to you, but freedom. You are like an addict craving his next fix.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Well, once your prowling leads to incarceration by one of these women, maybe your wife will finally get her head out of the sand.

You've been doing your utmost to tell us you're not a bad person. But those are words and they're cheap as chips. Belief is best earned by actions, how you live your life, what you do over what you say. It's obvious how you live yours so rather than convince us that you're not such a bad guy, why don't you work harder at accepting that you're not the type of man for monogamy? 

The truth, as they say, shall set you free.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Lol never heard of "bouncing eyes". Can't do that yet. I mean I can, but I will probably talk to some ladies but not in a sexual way or intent. Just to appreciate the contact and leave it at that.
> 
> *If I stop talking to women, that would mean death to me*. but realizing that pushing it too far is a mistake towards my wife and myself, puts the whole "talking to women" in a completely different perspective.
> 
> Will keep you posted.


Melodramatic much?

You don't respect your wife at all, do you?


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

You are like an animal playing with its pray, eventually you will kill it. I hope your wife finds out soon for her sake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Malaise said:


> SuperConfusedHusband said:
> 
> 
> > Lol never heard of "bouncing eyes". Can't do that yet. I mean I can, but I will probably talk to some ladies but not in a sexual way or intent. Just to appreciate the contact and leave it at that.
> ...


Try to be gentle, @Malaise. Behind every melodrama is a reason they're feeling that way. Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

Why do you feel like it would be the death of you if you never got to flirt with a younger girl again, @SuperConfusedHusband ? What do these younger girls do for you that your wife can't? That's not a sarcastic or rhetorical question; I'm asking in earnest. What do these girls make you feel, and why can't your wife do that for you? Why does the feeling that you get have to come from them? 

And why is the feeling that you get from them so important to you that you feel like you would die if you couldn't experience it?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> Just don't hit on her! Just kidding. I have more to say to you but I must sleep now. Tomorrow, we discuss, the ennegram...
> Enneagram Test- The Riso-Hudson Type Indicator (Version 2.0)
> https://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test.php


Today went well. I met with the lady, we did some training and she went home, There was no seduction on my part at all but alas...and I can be damned if I'm making this up, at some point while I was talking to her and sitting about 2 feet from her in front of a computer I caught her checking me out! You know he eyes went from my face to my chest to lower...and honestly I didnt feel uncomfortable but just very weird. 
I'm seriously not making this stuff up! Then when we were leaving to go get our cars, I said "bye" and she approached me and hugged me for a little too long. I had no intentions of hugging her but it seemed unpolite not to sine she initiated it.

I must be still emanating some energy or something even though today I forced myself not to flirt, and I didnt even though I had the chance about 6 times.

I score 7 on both Type 2 and Type 7, what does that mean?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> No it wont mean death to you, but freedom. You are like an addict craving his next fix.


Yes I guess so. Not physiscal death, but I would feel emotionally empty. Like a withdrawal.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Why do you feel like it would be the death of you if you never got to flirt with a younger girl again, @SuperConfusedHusband ? What do these younger girls do for you that your wife can't? That's not a sarcastic or rhetorical question; I'm asking in earnest. What do these girls make you feel, and why can't your wife do that for you? Why does the feeling that you get have to come from them?
> 
> And why is the feeling that you get from them so important to you that you feel like you would die if you couldn't experience it?


*Why do you feel like it would be the death of you if you never got to flirt with a younger girl again?*
Creating rapport and talking to women fills some void I have inside me. I feel like a kid on Christmas Morning when I do that, I just dont understand excaly why.
*
What do these younger girls do for you that your wife can't?*
I dont think that those are related. My wife and I actually have a very good relationship and love each other very much. I just feel like I need attention of women, even in a non-sexual way. Call is admiration, recognition...

*What do these girls make you feel, and why can't your wife do that for you?*
When I talk to girls and I create a dialogue with them, I feel like when I was in high school and I had several crushes on girls, but I never summed up the courage to talk to any of them so I never went out with them. Then 20 years later, one of my crushes, confessed to me on Facebook that she had a huge crush on me too in High School. She was the cutest. I will NEVER forgive myself for not marrying her. NEVER! To make things worse...she moved to another city for some guy in her 20s, got dumped by this guy, stayed alone for many years and now dating somebody but still not married or has a family on her own, and she told me she hates it. When she was talking to me I was praying god that she would not say "I wish you had married me". Thankfully she didnt say that, but she kind of implied it. And I still cannot forgive myself! This hurts...I forgot how much.
I have not had a crush with my wife, she was very pleasant and grounded and we love each other, but I have never been madly in love with her.

*Why does the feeling that you get have to come from them*
...and not from my wife? Because I tried to feel more passion for my wife, but I love her in a mature way, not like a high school crush type of thing. I'm not explaining this well...sorry.

*And why is the feeling that you get from them so important to you that you feel like you would die if you couldn't experience it?*
I did a 180 3 years ago. I went from introverted and shy and distant and avoidant, to very friendly, open, welcoming, helpful and cheerful. I maintain my daily mood like that through people and the interaction with them. I have lived in a small trailer in an isolated campground in the mountains of Mains 10 years ago, the closest house was 10 miles away. I loved it at that time, but I would never do it now. I crave people too much now, especially women.
If I stop interacting with people NOW, there would not be much left of me.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yes I guess so. Not physiscal death, but I would feel emotionally empty. Like a withdrawal.


Here's a novel idea: fill that emptiness with the love of your wife.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Malaise said:


> Here's a novel idea: fill that emptiness with the love of your wife.


It's not about my wife at all. She already loves me as I love her. This is something screwed up in my head that I'm misdirecting by talking to ladies.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

It sounds like you are in love with being in-love... stuck on the infatuation phase that starts when we meet someone new who we connect with.

But, since you don't take it through to a relationship, you cannot maintain that feeling with one woman. So you keep re-creating that moment over and over gain. I believe I posted earlier that it's the dopamine and oxytocin rush that makes you feel this way. It's the chemical rush that you are seeking out.

I'll bet that even talking about it here is giving you a rush.

You talk about the woman who you were working with today. Is she going to be working at your company? If so it will most likely cause problems. 

She might very well have not been looking at you in the way you think. She might have just been looking without checking you out. When I read that, it reminds me of something that happened to me when I was young. I was working in a hotel restaurant. The manager was there with his buddies for dinner. I was talking to them. Then he manger said to me "So do you see something you like?" From his gestures, it was clear that he meant his crotch. From something else he said, he thought I was looking at his crotch. No, I was just looking around while talking and might have looked down, but I was not looking at his crotch. He wanted to think I was so that's how he interpreted something I did. He was a creep.

Also, why are you calling grown women 'girls'? You might want to change that. Take your head out of high school. It might just help.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like you are in love with being in-love... stuck on the infatuation phase that starts when we meet someone new who we connect with.
> 
> But, since you don't take it through to a relationship, you cannot maintain that feeling with one woman. So you keep re-creating that moment over and over gain. I believe I posted earlier that it's the dopamine and oxytocin rush that makes you feel this way. It's the chemical rush that you are seeking out.
> 
> I'll bet that even talking about it here is giving you a rush.


That does sound accurate. In fact I felt almost depressed today since I forbade myself to hit on women. I didnt, and I felt lost, disoriented, not myself and out of place. I just wanted to go home and to bed.



EleGirl said:


> You talk about the woman who you were working with today. Is she going to be working at your company? If so it will most likely cause problems.
> 
> She might very well have not been looking at you in the way you think. She might have just been looking without checking you out. When I read that, it reminds me of something that happened to me when I was young. I was working in a hotel restaurant. The manager was there with his buddies for dinner. I was talking to them. Then he manger said to me "So do you see something you like?" From his gestures, it was clear that he meant his crotch. From something else he said, he thought I was looking at his crotch. No, I was just looking around while talking and might have looked down, but I was not looking at his crotch. He wanted to think I was so that's how he interpreted something I did. He was a creep.


Yes that is a creepy story. I dont think this guy in your story really thought you were looking at him, he just wanted to have sex with you so he made it up to see how you will react, or he just did it to impress his buddies or to embarrass you.
In this case I did noting. I was totally a-sexual. Maybe I did see something that wasnt there, you might be right, but how about the extensively prolonged unwanted hug? Did I make that up too or misinterpreted it? I'm so confused!



EleGirl said:


> Also, why are you calling grown women 'girls'? You might want to change that. Take your head out of high school. It might just help.


Because most of the "grown women" I talk to are very young in their early 20s. It's more fun that way...oh god this sounds so horrible!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> That does sound accurate. In fact I felt almost depressed today since I forbade myself to hit on women. I didnt, and I felt lost, disoriented, not myself and out of place. I just wanted to go home and to bed.






SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yes that is a creepy story. I dont think this guy in your story really thought you were looking at him, he just wanted to have sex with you so he made it up to see how you will react, or he just did it to impress his buddies or to embarrass you.
> In this case I did noting. I was totally a-sexual. Maybe I did see something that wasnt there, you might be right,* but how about the extensively prolonged unwanted hug? Did I make that up too or misinterpreted it?* I'm so confused!


The extended hug? Maybe she's just a person who gives lots of hugs. I grew up in a family where that was the norm. She was probably just being social in the way she learned to be social.

Did you make up your interpretation? Most likely.



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Because most of the "grown women" I talk to are very young in their early 20s. It's more fun that way...oh god this sounds so horrible!


Yep it sounds pretty creepy.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Today went well. I met with the lady, we did some training and she went home, There was no seduction on my part at all but alas...and I can be damned if I'm making this up, at some point while I was talking to her and sitting about 2 feet from her in front of a computer I caught her checking me out! You know he eyes went from my face to my chest to lower...and honestly I didnt feel uncomfortable but just very weird.
> I'm seriously not making this stuff up! Then when we were leaving to go get our cars, I said "bye" and she approached me and hugged me for a little too long. I had no intentions of hugging her but it seemed unpolite not to sine she initiated it.
> 
> I must be still emanating some energy or something even though today I forced myself not to flirt, and I didnt even though I had the chance about 6 times.
> ...


Please reconsidering hiring her, hugging your boss just isn't right, especially as its only been ONE DAY!. See if you can hire a young man. If you must keep her then politely tell her that you don't think its appropriate to hug as you are just working colleagues. Set the boundaries right away. Bring your wife into the conversation and have her photo on your desk. 
I am a married lady and the only men I EVER hug are close family.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> That does sound accurate. In fact I felt almost depressed today since I forbade myself to hit on women. I didnt, and I felt lost, disoriented, not myself and out of place. I just wanted to go home and to bed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If it was long and unwanted why didnt you say something???


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> When I talk to girls and I create a dialogue with them, I feel like when I was in high school and I had several crushes on girls, but I never summed up the courage to talk to any of them so I never went out with them. Then 20 years later, one of my crushes, confessed to me on Facebook that she had a huge crush on me too in High School. She was the cutest. I will NEVER forgive myself for not marrying her. NEVER! To make things worse...she moved to another city for some guy in her 20s, got dumped by this guy, stayed alone for many years and now dating somebody but still not married or has a family on her own, and she told me she hates it. When she was talking to me I was praying god that she would not say "I wish you had married me". Thankfully she didnt say that, but she kind of implied it. And I still cannot forgive myself! This hurts...I forgot how much.
> I have not had a crush with my wife, she was very pleasant and grounded and we love each other, but I have never been madly in love with her.


I think I understand this part, at least. Wanting desperately to fall in love with someone else because all the roses and butterflies have died for the person to whom you're married, or maybe they were never there to begin with, and it would be so wonderful to fall in love again with someone else just for the sake of feeling new love again. Maybe it would be better the second time around?

I felt a little bit of that once, around three years ago, and while it ended very, VERY badly for me in ways I won't go into here, I also realised something important:

Due to the way that love and happiness chemicals are released and absorbed by the brain, it is _physically impossible_ to stay head-over-heels in love with the same person for more than about three years. Every relationship you could ever possibly get into, no matter how young, beautiful, caring, sweet, sexual, or innocent she is... will never feel THAT amazing for more than about three years. Therefore, one has to make the effort to try and act in love with one's spouse until the feelings really do return. And you have to accept that when the love does return, even then it might not feel exactly as wonderful as it did when you were dating. 

But, to not accept that fact, to not try and fall back in love with your wife, is condemning yourself to a life to serial monogamy. You'll keep finding "The One", dating her, then falling out of love and leaving her every couple of years. Until one day, you're finally too heartbroken to find someone new, or maybe you're so old that no one considers you a viable partner anymore, and then you'll die alone.

Those are the two paths you have in front of you. Which do you want? What will you choose?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Please reconsidering hiring her, hugging your boss just isn't right, especially as its only been ONE DAY!. See if you can hire a young man. If you must keep her then politely tell her that you don't think its appropriate to hug as you are just working colleagues. Set the boundaries right away. Bring your wife into the conversation and have her photo on your desk.
> I am a married lady and the only men I EVER hug are close family.


Yeah something is not right here I will have to reconsider this person. God why does it have to be so hard?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> If it was long and unwanted why didnt you say something???


It was one of those things that happened fast, unexpected, in a parking lot while getting our cars. I only realized it was too long after.

But EleGirl seems to think I misinterpreted it...and I'm starting to think I actually did. I have to remember that I'm the one with the chemical imbalance (not them), so even a slight touch on my hand from a woman will make my antennas go up and start fantasizing about all sorts of stuff.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I think I understand this part, at least. Wanting desperately to fall in love with someone else because all the roses and butterflies have died for the person to whom you're married, or maybe they were never there to begin with, and it would be so wonderful to fall in love again with someone else just for the sake of feeling new love again. Maybe it would be better the second time around?
> 
> I felt a little bit of that once, around three years ago, and while it ended very, VERY badly for me in ways I won't go into here,


Sorry to hear that, I'm on that path right now. But what alternatives are out there? Making peace with the fact that the "high" of feeling in love will never come back? That is so scary I dont even want to think about it.



EllaSuaveterre said:


> I also realised something important:
> 
> Due to the way that love and happiness chemicals are released and absorbed by the brain, it is _physically impossible_ to stay head-over-heels in love with the same person for more than about three years. Every relationship you could ever possibly get into, no matter how young, beautiful, caring, sweet, sexual, or innocent she is... will never feel THAT amazing for more than about three years. Therefore, one has to make the effort to try and act in love with one's spouse until the feelings really do return. And you have to accept that when the love does return, even then it might not feel exactly as wonderful as it did when you were dating.


Honestly, I have never had that "high" of being completely in love with my wife, maybe a little, but I pretty much settled for a well grounded, nice, goal oriented, career settled, normal person. While this is GOLD, and I realize it, my relationship with my wife has no spark. An I know it's horrible to be wanting spark over security, but thats what I have been doing.
Maybe there are some books out there that can explain how to fall in love with somebody that you dont feel the spark with, or how to fall in love with your own partner (wife in my case). This is going to be a tough one though, I know that.



EllaSuaveterre said:


> But, to not accept that fact, to not try and fall back in love with your wife, is condemning yourself to a life to serial monogamy. You'll keep finding "The One", dating her, then falling out of love and leaving her every couple of years. Until one day, you're finally too heartbroken to find someone new, or maybe you're so old that no one considers you a viable partner anymore, and then you'll die alone.


This scenario scares me even more. No, no no no, I have to go back...this is insanity.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

You need accountability. You need to tell your wife of ALL your dirty deeds. Let's be real, she doesn't know. Her being a tad flirty with you standing next to her, is not the same as you having profiles on dating websites, and going on dates as a married man. GET REAL DUDE. Tell her everything, and let HER decide how she feels about it. 

If she can forgive you, then at least her eyes will have been opened, and she can ask you often if you are staying on the straight and narrow path. If she doesn't forgive you, then you can go skirt chase all you want. There are plenty of women who will use you for your money. You will be made fun of by all the onlookers. You will be that sad man chasing young girls because he has some bucks now. Gross. None of them will love you like your wife did. You don't deserve her anymore though. Now that you are such an amazingly skilled catch of a man:loser:

You are so massively immature for your age, I am blown away as I continue to read this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> It was one of those things that happened fast, unexpected, in a parking lot while getting our cars. I only realized it was too long after.
> 
> But EleGirl seems to think I misinterpreted it...and I'm starting to think I actually did. I have to remember that I'm the one with the chemical imbalance (not them), so even a slight touch on my hand from a woman will make my antennas go up and start fantasizing about all sorts of stuff.


 I dont think you misinterpreted it. If a man I barely know hugged me at all, especially if it was a little too long, I would be seriously concerned and would not meet with that man again. Its not appropriate, you are merely work colleagues.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Spicy said:


> You need accountability. You need to tell your wife of ALL your dirty deeds. Let's be real, she doesn't know. Her being a tad flirty with you standing next to her, is not the same as you having profiles on dating websites, and going on dates as a married man. GET REAL DUDE. Tell her everything, and let HER decide how she feels about it.
> 
> If she can forgive you, then at least her eyes will have been opened, and she can ask you often if you are staying on the straight and narrow path. If she doesn't forgive you, then you can go skirt chase all you want. There are plenty of women who will use you for your money. You will be made fun of by all the onlookers. You will be that sad man chasing young girls because he has some bucks now. Gross. None of them will love you like your wife did. You don't deserve her anymore though. Now that you are such an amazingly skilled catch of a man:loser:
> 
> You are so massively immature for your age, I am blown away as I continue to read this.


Yup I'm a pathetic looser! Thank you very much.
Thank God there are other people that besides thinking this, which is quiet obvious to me an everybody else, are actually offering help, solutions, insights and support.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yup I'm a pathetic looser! Thank you very much.
> 
> Thank God there are other people that besides thinking this, which is quiet obvious to me an everybody else, are actually offering help, solutions, insights and support.




She must have missed the don't judge me request. 

Some people trigger. It's the risk you take. 

But in all honesty you do need a knock on the head. Either stop this or cheat. You seem caught in limbo. 

Consider a sex addict annoymous meeting. The dopamine addiction is the same, even if yoo are not having sex. This issues involve self esteem and contol.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

blueinbr said:


> She must have missed the don't judge me request.
> 
> Some people trigger. It's the risk you take.
> 
> ...


Lol I know I needed a knock on my head, and I received several here, and I loved every each one of them. 

Slowly, day after day, night after night of really bad thoughts, I came now to the realization I will talk to my wife about this.
I'm on day 2 now of not flirting with anybody. I had stopped it and it feels really crappy now, the high is gone, people have gone from friendly to hostile (at least my perception of them), I dont feel the love in the world anymore. But I also understand that I created a reality that could have not existed without hurting my wife. So it's a choice.

I actually thought about joining one of those groups but I'm not religious and steer away from those so it's hard to find a group that is non religious.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Sorry to hear that, I'm on that path right now. But what alternatives are out there? Making peace with the fact that the "high" of feeling in love will never come back? That is so scary I dont even want to think about it.
> 
> Honestly, I have never had that "high" of being completely in love with my wife, maybe a little, but I pretty much settled for a well grounded, nice, goal oriented, career settled, normal person. While this is GOLD, and I realize it, my relationship with my wife has no spark. An I know it's horrible to be wanting spark over security, but thats what I have been doing.
> Maybe there are some books out there that can explain how to fall in love with somebody that you dont feel the spark with, or how to fall in love with your own partner (wife in my case). This is going to be a tough one though, I know that.
> ...


It is not bad to want spark over security.

What is bad is they way you are going about finding that spark.

And what you do not seem to realize is that you have the ability to create that spark in your marriage, with your wife. For some reason you seem to reject that idea. It's like you don't want that kind of relationship with her.

There is a woman, Ether Perel that has Ted Talks and other lectures on YouTube about this. She also has a very good book that I think you would benefit from reading.

Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence by Esther Perel

You don't need talking to and flirting with a bunch of 'girls' to get that spark. You need to change your own mind set and how YOU approach your marriage to get that spark.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> And what you do not seem to realize is that you have the ability to create that spark in your marriage, with your wife. For some reason you seem to reject that idea. It's like you don't want that kind of relationship with her.


That's what I'm trying to find out. Do I want the spark with my wife? If yes, how in heaven I can make something like that happen that has never been there, unless I trick my senses and my brain. Not a big fan of trickery. You see with women out there, I can create spark in a matter of 3-4 sentences. I know its a temporary, superficial, purely sexual-emotional spark, but thats exactly whats missing in my marriage.



EleGirl said:


> There is a woman, Ether Perel that has Ted Talks and other lectures on YouTube about this. She also has a very good book that I think you would benefit from reading.
> 
> Mating in Captivity: Unlocking Erotic Intelligence by Esther Perel
> 
> You don't need talking to and flirting with a bunch of 'girls' to get that spark. You need to change your own mind set and how YOU approach your marriage to get that spark.


I have the CDs of that book, listening to it in these days. She seems to have some interesting points. I have to finish listening to it and then re-listen to it again. I'm slow lol.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Lol I know I needed a knock on my head, and I received several here, and I loved every each one of them.
> 
> Slowly, day after day, night after night of really bad thoughts, I came now to the realization I will talk to my wife about this.
> I'm on day 2 now of not flirting with anybody. I had stopped it and it feels really crappy now, the high is gone, people have gone from friendly to hostile (at least my perception of them), I dont feel the love in the world anymore. But I also understand that I created a reality that could have not existed without hurting my wife. So it's a choice.
> ...


I'm so very sorry you're having such a hard go of it. Please believe me when I say that no matter what you've done, you DO NOT deserve to feel like you're a loser, or to feel like there's no love in the world. You are most emphatically NOT a loser at all, and there is love in the world, and you deserve to feel loved! Everyone deserves that. 

Look, I've been spending more time than usual in therapy lately, due to issues with trauma and flashbacks and an eating disorder. My mind is very discombobulated at present. And I get the sense from what you write that you are not feeling too well either. I hear a lot of fear and despair in your writing, which is really quite normal for what you're currently struggling with. 

But I've made some graphics in photoshop as a sort of instruction manual to myself, for how to give MYSELF the love and nurturing I crave, and how to muddle through when things get tough. Would you like for me to share these with you? You can print them out, or save them to your computer, and use them as how-to-survive manuals when you feel so lost you can't think straight. 

Please hang in there. You're really brave to talk to us about this at all, especially when some of the responses are less than kind. I know you're confused and afraid and very conflicted, but I promise you, you DO deserve to feel better.

Edit: Here you go. Here are three of the pages from the personal journal I'm making for myself. I'm going to add more pages dealing with the specifics of grounding exercises and the AKERU method at some eventual point, and I'll probably upload those, too. I know they're a bit feminine, but maybe if you ask me nicely and I can get around to it, I'll make the pages is a more neutral colour scheme.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> I'm so very sorry you're having such a hard go of it. Please believe me when I say that no matter what you've done, you DO NOT deserve to feel like you're a loser, or to feel like there's no love in the world. You are most emphatically NOT a loser at all, and there is love in the world, and you deserve to feel loved! Everyone deserves that.


Thank you I appreciate, but yes, I mean I have not been exactly straigh forward with my wife so I know I deserve some bashing, but I'm strong enough to see through it and call it a blessing.



EllaSuaveterre said:


> Look, I've been spending more time than usual in therapy lately, due to issues with trauma and flashbacks and an eating disorder. My mind is very discombobulated at present. And I get the sense from what you write that you are not feeling too well either. I hear a lot of fear and despair in your writing, which is really quite normal for what you're currently struggling with.
> 
> But I've made some graphics in photoshop as a sort of instruction manual to myself, for how to give MYSELF the love and nurturing I crave, and how to muddle through when things get tough. Would you like for me to share these with you? You can print them out, or save them to your computer, and use them as how-to-survive manuals when you feel so lost you can't think straight.


Ohhh that would be lovely! Thank you in advance. Yes please attache them here maybe others will be curious to see them.



EllaSuaveterre said:


> Please hang in there. You're really brave to talk to us about this at all, especially when some of the responses are less than kind. I know you're confused and afraid and very conflicted, but I promise you, you DO deserve to feel better.
> 
> Edit: Here you go. Here are three of the pages from the personal journal I'm making for myself. I'm going to add more pages dealing with the specifics of grounding exercises and the AKERU method at some eventual point, and I'll probably upload those, too. I know they're a bit feminine, but maybe if you ask me nicely and I can get around to it, I'll make the pages is a more neutral colour scheme.


Thank you I'm going to check them out now, I started responding to this before the pictures were posted.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

OMG these are soooo cool! Ella you should be an illustrator professionally! No seriously. My mom is a children's book illustrator and you certainly do that talent!

One request: the Questions are too small to be read and I would like to print them out. Is there a way to send them to me in high resolution?

Thank you!


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> OMG these are soooo cool! Ella you should be an illustrator professionally! No seriously. My mom is a children's book illustrator and you certainly do that talent!
> 
> One request: the Questions are too small to be read and I would like to print them out. Is there a way to send them to me in high resolution?
> 
> Thank you!


Thank you so much for the compliments! That is so sweet!! To get bigger text, right click the pictures, click "copy image address", and then paste (ctrl+v) into your address bar. That should take you directly to a high-resolution, zoomable version of the images. Or just click below.

http://i.imgur.com/cfnOEB5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/i9gFf2G.jpg


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> That's what I'm trying to find out. Do I want the spark with my wife? If yes, how in heaven I can make something like that happen that has never been there, unless I trick my senses and my brain. Not a big fan of trickery. You see with women out there, I can create spark in a matter of 3-4 sentences. I know its a temporary, superficial, purely sexual-emotional spark, but thats exactly whats missing in my marriage.


It's not there with your wife because you have not wanted it with your wife. This was your choice. We have great control over your feelings.

I disagree that you are not a big fan of trickery. You use trickery all the time to set 'girls' up to make you feel good. You use it to get people to like you.

The difference is that your wife just loves you. So you have not had to do anything to keep her. Instead of using trickery, use your energy to fall in love with her at a passionate level. The only reason you have not fallen in love with her that way is that you don't want to. Yes there are things you have to do to make this happen, but it's not trickery. It's called love. Love is action.



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I have the CDs of that book, listening to it in these days. She seems to have some interesting points. I have to finish listening to it and then re-listen to it again. I'm slow lol.


Yea, maybe you should listen and pay attention.

After that read the books "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Love Busters" do the work they say to do.

If you do all that those 3 books tell you to do, you will be so much in love that you will be on cloud nine. Get her to do them too, get her to read the books and do the work. And the passion will be mutual.

Love is simply a chemical reaction in your brains. Humans are chemical engines. If you do the things that we know get those chemicals flowing, the feelings follow.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Here's some slightly different versions of that... {found a lot of sites with this stuff. Looks good.}

Eponis | Sinope (Everything Is Awful and I?m Not Okay: questions to...)

http://www.uccs.edu/Documents/wellness/wellpromo/Everything-is-awful.pdf

Everything Is Awful and I'm Not Okay: Questions to Ask Before Giving Up | The Huffington Post

8 Questions You Need To Ask Yourself Before Giving Up On Something


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> The only reason you have not fallen in love with her that way is that you don't want to.


I had this doubt before and now that you are saying it too...I'm starting to thing it might be true. But why wouldn't I want to fall in love with my wife? I should...I mean she is almost perfect! She is truly a blessing to me, and I'm not going into some of her defects here because tons of people will start accusing me again of being an a-hole.
Maybe I should read the stuff you sent to me.

Thank you for sending all that material it's a lot to read, I will tackle it one by one. Sounds very promising though.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Here's some slightly different versions of that... {found a lot of sites with this stuff. Looks good.}
> 
> Eponis | Sinope (Everything Is Awful and I?m Not Okay: questions to...)
> 
> ...



Ohhh those are the questions from Ella! Yes beautiful! She also shared a high resolution version of them. This is great stuff! Thank you!
I almost always fail the4 one that says "Are you fatigued or you need to sleep"...well that is a big one for me because of my work I go to sleep at 1AM and get up at 7AM, 7 days a week lol. Yeah I'm always tired ahah.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I had this doubt before and now that you are saying it too...I'm starting to thing it might be true. But why wouldn't I want to fall in love with my wife? I should...I mean she is almost perfect! She is truly a blessing to me, and I'm not going into some of her defects here because tons of people will start accusing me again of being an a-hole.
> Maybe I should read the stuff you sent to me.


Because it's scary in some way? Because as your wife she already has a lot of power. And if you give yourself to her fully you fear being too vulnerable?



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Thank you for sending all that material it's a lot to read, I will tackle it one by one. Sounds very promising though.


:nerd:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Ohhh those are the questions from Ella! Yes beautiful! She also shared a high resolution version of them. This is great stuff! Thank you!
> I almost always fail the4 one that says "Are you fatigued or you need to sleep"...well that is a big one for me because of my work I go to sleep at 1AM and get up at 7AM, 7 days a week lol. Yeah I'm always tired ahah.


I gave you the links so you can cut/paste the content if you want it. That way you don't have to type a lot of that in from her pages. She probably has some additional stuff on her pages, but a large part of the text in on those sites.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yup I'm a pathetic looser! Thank you very much.
> Thank God there are other people that besides thinking this, which is quiet obvious to me an everybody else, are actually offering help, solutions, insights and support.


Reread my post a few more times. What I said has both solutions and insight. And you are right, I didn't offer you any support. I will never be in support of a person who is romanticizing and practically bragging about their skills in cheating on their spouse. I'm always gonna call it like it is, and you are a cheater. On top of that, you are heading straight for the dirty old man club by hitting on girls that could be your daughters. 

You thusfar have avoided a physical affair, so there is hope that if you come clean to your wife, you may gain her forgiveness and save your marriage. You don't need anymore fluffy psycobable. You needed a swift kick in the ass. And, your welcome.


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## EllaSuaveterre (Oct 2, 2016)

Spicy said:


> Reread my post a few more times. What I said has both solutions and insight. And you are right, I didn't offer you any support. I will never be in support of a person who is romanticizing and practically bragging about their skills in cheating on their spouse. I'm always gonna call it like it is, and you are a cheater. On top of that, you are heading straight for the dirty old man club by hitting on girls that could be your daughters.
> 
> You thusfar have avoided a physical affair, so there is hope that if you come clean to your wife, you may gain her forgiveness and save your marriage. You don't need anymore fluffy psycobable. You needed a swift kick in the ass. And, your welcome.


Pardon the threadjack, but veryone deserves support. Everyone. Even- no, especially- people who are making poor choices. You can give someone support (e.g. gentle guidance, encouragement, cheering up) without being "in support" of their actions. The old adage, "love the sinner, hate the sin" is what I'm talking about, but people spend so much time hating the sin that they forget to also love the sinner, who desperately needs love because he usually hates himself.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EllaSuaveterre said:


> Pardon the threadjack, but veryone deserves support. Everyone. Even- no, especially- people who are making poor choices. You can give someone support (e.g. gentle guidance, encouragement, cheering up) without being "in support" of their actions. The old adage, "love the sinner, hate the sin" is what I'm talking about, but people spend so much time hating the sin that they forget to also love the sinner, who desperately needs love because he usually hates himself.


I think Spicy's intentions are good, she wants me to come to my senses and stop fooling around. Her approach is harsh.
You Ella have a completely different approach to me and what I'm doing. 

But in the end, you both want the same thing: that I can find light at the end of the tunnel and rediscover my wife.
I appreciate both, really. Thank you!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I'm a 44yo man married to a 35yo woman and super confused about my behavior. No kids. Financially very stable. Our marriage works, passion has dwindles some, but still strong. We also get along much better now than when we met. So I would summarize it as a great life and marriage.
> 
> About six months ago I started to create online dating site profiles and talk to women. I liked it so much that over 3 month I actually met several women just for coffee or dinner. I was into the thrill of it, not into the women so nothing happened.
> 
> ...


*Better see a new therapist! The present one doesn't seem to be doing you any good!

If you're wanting to engage in this type of activity, you're much better off being single!*


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I think Spicy's intentions are good, she wants me to come to my senses and stop fooling around. Her approach is harsh.
> 
> You Ella have a completely different approach to me and what I'm doing.
> 
> ...


Very often the difference in approach used by posters has to do with their background.

For example, if I recall correctly, Ella cheated on her husband. She has several threads on TAM talking about how people who cheat need to be treated with kid gloves.

On the other hand, most of the rest of us here have been the ones who were cheated on. After having our spouse rip our lives and the lives of our children apart, we tend to have a more pragmatic view.

I find it funny that you think I, and others, have been harsh on you. You should see the way women who cheat are usually treated on TAM. They are usually attacked mercilessly and drummed off the site. Very few have the strength to stay here and fight off the attacks.

I agree with Ella that the harsh attacks that wayward spouses usually get on TAM is harmful in that it drives away people who could have been helped. But in no way do I view wayward spouses as victims who need coddling either.

You have been treated with kid gloves, which really gets me. 

Just remember that a lot of people here in TAM are very hurt and here working through that hurt. And your thread could be a huge trigger to some.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Today went well. I met with the lady, we did some training and she went home, There was no seduction on my part at all but alas...and I can be damned if I'm making this up, at some point while I was talking to her and sitting about 2 feet from her in front of a computer I caught her checking me out! You know he eyes went from my face to my chest to lower...and honestly I didnt feel uncomfortable but just very weird.
> I'm seriously not making this stuff up! Then when we were leaving to go get our cars, I said "bye" and she approached me and hugged me for a little too long. I had no intentions of hugging her but it seemed unpolite not to sine she initiated it.
> 
> I must be still emanating some energy or something even though today I forced myself not to flirt, and I didnt even though I had the chance about 6 times.


Did she know you were married? That's a little concerning, especially the long hug if you're going to be working together... I'm proud of your newfound self restraint.  You might try to schedule training sessions at your place or something where your wife will be there, or there are other people around just to be safe... 




SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I score 7 on both Type 2 and Type 7, what does that mean?


*Type Two*
Type Two, I knew it!!! Actually, I was thinking type 3 for you, but 2,3, & 4 are all from the same group, the "heart/feeling" group. I have a lot of 2 and 3 in me, and I went to a business seminar on the ennegram, and it was so enlightening it was life changing for me. What the ennegram teaches you, if you read up on it, is what unconscious motives actually drive you.

What they said about type 2 is that they are very image conscious. I was actually insulted by this idea at first because I was thinking superficial/materialistic "oh look at me, I have nice things" type image conscious. But as the explained more, I learned that the group is driven by the desire to have others like you, think highly of you, be impressed with you, etc. 

Two's are some of kindest, most generous people out there because they are driven by need to be liked. They do really nice things so people will like and approve of them. I had always known I was a push over and cared what others thought too much, but it was only once I understood what drove me, that I was able to change some of my behaviors. In my case it was a lot of wasted time in business on difficult clients who couldn't or wouldn't pay well - I didn't realize I was compulsively helping them while my good paying clients got pushed to the back because I was trying to impress them with what a wonderful person I was. 

In your case, you are driven to seek attention inappropriately because you already have your wife's approval. These women are new women you want to have think highly of you, like you, desire you, etc. But understanding that drive you can channel it to other things, like the Big Brother program, charity work, Helping friends, family, neighbors, whatever - just something healthy where you can get approval and recognition. And you can also keep reminding yourself about the approval you'd lose if your wife and other friends knew how you were behaving.

*Type 7*
Impulsive? Bored easily? Need fun/excitement? 
Types 5,6, & 7 are driven by thinking/fear. Again, when I first heard that I thought it insulting. It's interesting because the description doesn't sound like a fearful person at all. Maybe it is the fear of missing out, the fear of boredom? Anyhow, here's what this link says about 7:
The Enthusiast: The Functions of Spontaneity and Diverse Activity—The potential for enthusiasm, productivity, achievement, skill acquisition, and the desire for change and variety. Negatively, the potential for hyperactivity, superficiality, impulsiveness, excessiveness, and escapism.
 Hmmmm... Sound like anyone you know?

I don't know as much about this drive but if it fits you, I think you can learn to harness it toward better results.

This is the site of the person who's seminar I attended - He's business oriented but if you are interested, you can search the Ennegram online and find a lot of analysis of the different types. Hopefully understanding what is driving you will be liberating for you. You can try to analyze your child hood and early relationships to figure out why you do what you do, and I'm sure that stuff affects us, but I also thing we are just wired the way we are wired. Two people could have identical childhoods/early lives and turn out completely different.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> It's not there with your wife because you have not wanted it with your wife. This was your choice. We have great control over your feelings.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OP, Ele is right. If you have ever been used by someone for attention and to make themselves feel good, it sucks when you finally realize that. Don't use others.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Very often the difference in approach used by posters has to do with their background.
> 
> For example, if I recall correctly, Ella cheated on her husband. She has several threads on TAM talking about how people who cheat need to be treated with kid gloves.
> 
> ...


I see he has a loving wife and a good marriage and he's ready to flush it all away.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> Did she know you were married? That's a little concerning, especially the long hug if you're going to be working together... I'm proud of your newfound self restraint.  You might try to schedule training sessions at your place or something where your wife will be there, or there are other people around just to be safe...



Yes she did know that very well. Also I wear my ring. These trainings are scheduled in a big office with a lot of people so I don think something will happen. I also told my wife about this lady and the strange hug, she just thought it was hilarious.

Again my wife responses to this keep surprising me. Even you and other ladies here will be pretty pissed at your husband if this was happening.



WorkingWife said:


> *Type Two*
> Type Two, I knew it!!! Actually, I was thinking type 3 for you, but 2,3, & 4 are all from the same group, the "heart/feeling" group. I have a lot of 2 and 3 in me, and I went to a business seminar on the ennegram, and it was so enlightening it was life changing for me. What the ennegram teaches you, if you read up on it, is what unconscious motives actually drive you.
> 
> What they said about type 2 is that they are very image conscious. I was actually insulted by this idea at first because I was thinking superficial/materialistic "oh look at me, I have nice things" type image conscious. But as the explained more, I learned that the group is driven by the desire to have others like you, think highly of you, be impressed with you, etc.


100% ME! Dont feel insulted, I think it's related to the fact that we care about what is our role in society and how are we perceived by others. The thing that kills me the most? When others lose trust in me. I cannot stand it. If I lost my wife's approval and he family's approval, not to mention my family, it will probably be devastating!



WorkingWife said:


> Two's are some of kindest, most generous people out there because they are driven by need to be liked. They do really nice things so people will like and approve of them. I had always known I was a push over and cared what others thought too much, but it was only once I understood what drove me, that I was able to change some of my behaviors. In my case it was a lot of wasted time in business on difficult clients who couldn't or wouldn't pay well - I didn't realize I was compulsively helping them while my good paying clients got pushed to the back because I was trying to impress them with what a wonderful person I was.
> 
> In your case, you are driven to seek attention inappropriately because you already have your wife's approval. These women are new women you want to have think highly of you, like you, desire you, etc. But understanding that drive you can channel it to other things, like the Big Brother program, charity work, Helping friends, family, neighbors, whatever - just something healthy where you can get approval and recognition. And you can also keep reminding yourself about the approval you'd lose if your wife and other friends knew how you were behaving.


100% ME!!! To be liked and Accepted. The book "No more nice guy" by R. Glover sums it all up...I always want to help others, achieve whatever they wanna achieve, help them in any way and sometimes even do things for them. I was the guy in college that other will be going to 3 days before finals to ask me to help them with tests because guess what...they didnt have anything prepared. And now...sad but true, some of these women have taken advantage of me financially by knowing I wanna help. (and yes somebody now is going to quote this and say "no they didnt take advantage of you, its you the dumb one that gave them the money" oh well...)
I stopped being a "nice guy" (by what R. Glover means in his book) except with my wife, and trouble started brewing. I included a definitoin of "Nice Guy" on the bottom of this post.



WorkingWife said:


> *Type 7*
> Impulsive? Bored easily? Need fun/excitement?
> Types 5,6, & 7 are driven by thinking/fear. Again, when I first heard that I thought it insulting. It's interesting because the description doesn't sound like a fearful person at all. Maybe it is the fear of missing out, the fear of boredom? Anyhow, here's what this link says about 7:
> The Enthusiast: The Functions of Spontaneity and Diverse Activity—The potential for enthusiasm, productivity, achievement, skill acquisition, and the desire for change and variety. Negatively, the potential for hyperactivity, superficiality, impulsiveness, excessiveness, and escapism.
> ...


The type 7 is a very new thing to me, about 3 years now. I used to be the reliable and steady one, but it was all out of fear of not being successful in business. I led a life of just work since I was 20. Then I succeeded in business and (coincidence???) I'm seeking excitement. I'm bored very easily with everything(including women) and I'm always trying new things. Some of them might be even weird like new colones at Macy's or pick up surfing, a personal trainer, a new degree (I already have 2) and last one from this morning...I thought it would be really cool to visit Rhode Island.

***Robert Glover definition of a "Nice Guy" (This is how I remember it).
A nice guy is somebody that thinks that by pleasing others, specifically women, he will get approval by them and in return obtain admiration and potentially sex.
Nothing can be farther from the truth, by trying to please women, he is displaying a servile behavior, women will ignore him or, best case scenario, he will be put in the friend zone. All nice guys hate it and will be resentful.
Here is the kicker: in reality, the so called "nice guy" is not nice at all, quiet the opposite. He is manipulating women into thinking that he will provide and satisfy their needs, while this is only a temporary behavior until one woman will agree to sleep with him. He operates following "Covert agendas" and acting as he is a great catch because he can please, when in reality all he wants is sex.
Dr. Glover proposes a new male identity that does not cover anything, suggest men to be relaxed in their own skin, to be open with women about what they want and have a "no-agenda" lifestyle with women.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Malaise said:


> I see he has a loving wife and a good marriage and he's ready to flush it all away.


Horrible I know, thats why I'm here. And oh boy, I did find some good answers!!! Actually since last week, I feel like a new person.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

blueinbr said:


> OP, Ele is right. If you have ever been used by someone for attention and to make themselves feel good, it sucks when you finally realize that. Don't use others.


I dont know about this one. I'm not forcing people to talk to me. The fact THEY find me interesting enough to keep talking to me, thats not my issue.
No wait...I do use seduction...but gee who doesnt? Even when you go grocery shopping you are nice to the cashier (male or female) and can strike a conversation.
There is this guy at my bank, we always chitchat...and YES I have been trying to be funny, and kind of seductive, not in a sexual way but to keep his attention high. That's what I do with women too! I'm not trying to convey that I would love to stuck my tongue down their throat, I'm seducing for the pleasure of the conversation.

Maybe we should change the word "seduction" and "seducing" with "interest"or "not boring".

I dont know where you guys work, but have you ever had a customer that you just wanna send away because they are super boring or uninteresting? 
And then thinnk about the one customer, that when he/she walks through the door, everybody is happy to see them. Well thats me now! But that doesnt imply I wanna have sex with everybody.

-RANT OVER-


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

So do you chat with guys too or just the ladies?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

blueinbr said:


> So do you chat with guys too or just the ladies?


BOTH! And I do the same thing with guy than with ladies, except with guys typically my conversations turn into more masculine things like sports, career, cars, women issues...and by the time I'm into the conversation a stranger guy can feel very close to me and pat me on my back, give me thumbs up, tell me I should come "here" more often and we should hang out...one guy invited me to join the Masons where I believe he was a member or some kind of affiliate.

With ladies it usually end up with phone number exchange. And I rarely call or text them. Some I have called never pick up and most I have texted reply with one words or nothing at all. 

I dont initiate so much with guys, I initiate a lot with ladies. However I'm on my 3rd day of not doing this...starts to feel less awkward. Today I only spoke with one young lady at starbucks suggesting a granola bar while she was touching them all. I picked one I like up and said: "This one is really good if you are wondering". She smiled and started a conversation, but I was kind of shy now since I'm confused about all this. So I let the convo die.

Today I feel like that kid in elementary school that has been bullied 2 days ago and was told to steer away from a certain group of "cool kids" and never to speak to them again! I'm still here, still alive, but incredibly lonely because I know I have lost my "cool" social place in a big world. I feel like an ordinary loser. Like before. Its ok I will make it through day 4.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> And then thinnk about the one customer, that when he/she walks through the door, everybody is happy to see them. Well thats me now! But that doesnt imply I wanna have sex with everybody.


Well that's a relief. You've got me looking over my shoulder every time I walk into a store.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I dont know about this one. I'm not forcing people to talk to me. The fact THEY find me interesting enough to keep talking to me, thats not my issue.


In the example you gave, were are basically forcing her to talk to you.
She is a sales person who is in her business “space”. You enter her space and start talking. She cannot walk away. Her job is to talk to people as sell them windows. She could not walk away. She could not tell you to get lost. 

The most she could have done is to tell you that she had something that she needed to do, like all in an order to brush you off. But then again you picked on a ‘girl’, a young inexperience girl who would most likely not know how to tell some self-centered who was trying to get his emotional high to leave her alone.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

I have been staying up on your post and you should listen to EleGirl. You bristle at what she says because she hits close. I doctor can't or won't label a sex addition but I see it it in the words you type. You are a predictor and look at women as prey. You can right this by just understanding your thinking is not right, you are cheating, you are sick and need help. This is what should make you cry! I don't mean to be cruel but you are a dangerous person to a good marriage. Is this fair to your wife ??????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> In the example you gave, were are basically forcing her to talk to you.
> She is a sales person who is in her business “space”. You enter her space and start talking. She cannot walk away. Her job is to talk to people as sell them windows. She could not walk away. She could not tell you to get lost.


No, wrong, I told her I wanst going to buy anything and I didnt need anything. She knew I just wanted to talk. Is it maybe possible that she was bored out of her mind and just wanted to talk too? I understand that what I do is not right towards my wife, but the people I talk to...I always make my intentions clear and I certainly dont force anybody to talk to me. If somebody tells me to go away, like they have told me before, I just walk away.
Which example are we talking about Nicole? She knew since from the beginning.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Tomara said:


> I have been staying up on your post and you should listen to EleGirl. You bristle at what she says because she hits close. I doctor can't or won't label a sex addition but I see it it in the words you type. You are a predictor and look at women as prey. You can right this by just understanding your thinking is not right, you are cheating, you are sick and need help. This is what should make you cry! I don't mean to be cruel but you are a dangerous person to a good marriage. Is this fair to your wife ??????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Tomara,
EleGirl and I have really good exchages. And thank you for telling me I need help. I know that, thats why I'm here. :wink2:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> No, wrong, I told her I wanst going to buy anything and I didnt need anything. She knew I just wanted to talk. Is it maybe possible that she was bored out of her mind and just wanted to talk too? I understand that what I do is not right towards my wife, but the people I talk to...I always make my intentions clear and I certainly dont force anybody to talk to me. If somebody tells me to go away, like they have told me before, I just walk away.
> 
> Which example are we talking about Nicole? She knew since from the beginning.


No, you telling her that you were not going to buy anything does not matter. Why? Because even though you said you would not buy anything you continued to talk to her. Sure she could have told you to flake off. But it looks really bad to anyone looking on for a sales person to tell someone that since they are not going to buy anything, to go away.

She did not go into your space to talk to you. You went into her space and basically demanded her attention. Yes you demanded it by your continued stupid game.

I've had guys do this. When I was younger I was too immature to know how to get rid of the guy, so I would stay trapped in the interaction with the guy...

Today I would just make up an excuse like, "Oh, sorry but it's I need to call it for a meeting with my supervisor." And I would have walked away making a phone call to someone, anyone. Or at least pretended to until you got the hint and left.

You flatter yourself if you think all these women are so enthralled to talk to you. After all, you must be the only man who pays attention to good looking these poor lonely good looking young women. Right?


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> No, you telling her that you were not going to buy anything does not matter. Why? Because even though you said you would not buy anything you continued to talk to her. Sure she could have told you to flake off. But it looks really bad to anyone looking on for a sales person to tell someone that since they are not going to buy anything, to go away.
> 
> She did not go into your space to talk to you. You went into her space and basically demanded her attention. Yes you demanded it by your continued stupid game.
> 
> ...


So all these women talked to me just because they pity me or were too afraid to send me away?
When I was talking to Nicole, a third person stopped by, a woman, and we all started talking together.
We are not going to agree on this I know.

Anyways, I'm day 3 of not talking to anybody.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> So all these women talked to me just because they pity me or were too afraid to send me away?
> 
> When I was talking to Nicole, a third person stopped by, a woman, and we all started talking together.
> 
> ...


I'll bet she was relieved when that other woman came along... >

It's likely that some like the attention and some find you annoying. 

You say that they are "girls", young women, there were few if any older men who I found attractive when I was in my 20's. I got a lot of attention from them, but I was not flattered or interested in them.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I'll bet she was relieved when that other woman came along... > *PROBABLY! LOL*
> 
> It's likely that some like the attention and some find you annoying.
> 
> You say that they are "girls", young women, there were few if any older men who I found attractive when I was in my 20's. I got a lot of attention from them, but I was not flattered or interested in them.


Ok, would you like me to do an experiment? As you probably imagine, I WOULD LOVE TO! :grin2:
Let me talk to a bunch of ladies tomorrow and then after I think they might be interested in keep talking, interrupt the pattern and simply say: "Ok well I'm sorry I would love to continue talking to you but I have to go, UNLESS YOU WANT ME TO STAY". See what they say? I'm giving them the perfect opportunity to politely flip me off by saying: "Thats ok, you can go.". Wanna see how many will say: "It's ok I like talking to you...".

I mean one thing is that I now know that I have to stop this pattern of behaviour because I can hurt my wife (very grateful for all your help), another thing is to turn it into a witch hunt and call me delusional.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Ok, would you like me to do an experiment? As you probably imagine, I WOULD LOVE TO! :grin2:
> Let me talk to a bunch of ladies tomorrow and then after I think they might be interested in keep talking, interrupt the pattern and simply say: "Ok well I'm sorry I would love to continue talking to you but I have to go, UNLESS YOU WANT ME TO STAY". See what they say? I'm giving them the perfect opportunity to politely flip me off by saying: "Thats ok, you can go.". Wanna see how many will say: "It's ok I like talking to you...".
> 
> I mean one thing is that I now know that I have to stop this pattern of behaviour because I can hurt my wife (very grateful for all your help), another thing is to turn it into a witch hunt.


Oh, that's not going to work. With that idea you are putting them on the spot. Most will not want to make you feel bad. Young women are silly like that.

But you are right, the important thing here is that you have to stop doing this. You have stopped. I hope you continue to not to it. And talking about it could be bad because even talking about ti can bring up the excitement. Do you watch any crime shows? The perps of sexual crimes usually take trophies to help them relive their crimes. While what you do it not a crime... reliving what you do is similar in that it will cause your brain to react in the same way it does when you talk to the women.

So we need to talk about what new things you are doing in your life to fill your time and make you feel good--what good, healthy things.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> Oh, that's not going to work. With that idea you are putting them on the spot. Most will not want to make you feel bad. Young women are silly like that.
> 
> But you are right, the important thing here is that you have to stop doing this. You have stopped. I hope you continue to not to it. And talking about it could be bad because even talking about ti can bring up the excitement. Do you watch any crime shows? *The perps of sexual crimes usually take trophies to help them relive their crimes.* While what you do it not a crime... reliving what you do is similar in that it will cause your brain to react in the same way it does when you talk to the women.


And now I just went from delusional to sexual predator! Just like that! and Fast too! :grin2:



EleGirl said:


> So we need to talk about what new things you are doing in your life to fill your time and make you feel good--what good, healthy things.


Please illuminate me, cause...I'm lost. Have you read my comments about being on day 3 with no contact and no talk? It feels horrible. I feel like a prisoner, watching the world from inside a jail cell.
So far I have not figured it out. Maybe tomorrow.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You wife's attitude is strange. I think she is very naive about how things like this can damage and even destroy a marriage. I wonder if she too has lax attitudes on this, and few boundaries with the opposite sex?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yes she did know that very well. Also I wear my ring. These trainings are scheduled in a big office with a lot of people so I don think something will happen. I also told my wife about this lady and the strange hug, she just thought it was hilarious.
> 
> Again my wife responses to this keep surprising me. Even you and other ladies here will be pretty pissed at your husband if this was happening.


I too would find it hilarious if that happened to my husband, but then he has very strong boundaries re women. I'm sure it would make him very uncomfortable. And he doesn't get out much without me. I worry about a lot of thing in our relationship, but him cheating is not one of them.



SuperConfusedHusband said:


> 100% ME! Dont feel insulted, I think it's related to the fact that we care about what is our role in society and how are we perceived by others. The thing that kills me the most? When others lose trust in me. I cannot stand it. If I lost my wife's approval and he family's approval, not to mention my family, it will probably be devastating!
> 
> 100% ME!!! To be liked and Accepted. The book "No more nice guy" by R. Glover sums it all up...I always want to help others, achieve whatever they wanna achieve, help them in any way and sometimes even do things for them. I was the guy in college that other will be going to 3 days before finals to ask me to help them with tests because guess what...they didnt have anything prepared. And now...sad but true, some of these women have taken advantage of me financially by knowing I wanna help. (and yes somebody now is going to quote this and say "no they didnt take advantage of you, its you the dumb one that gave them the money" oh well...)
> I stopped being a "nice guy" (by what R. Glover means in his book) except with my wife, and trouble started brewing. I included a definitoin of "Nice Guy" on the bottom of this post.


Here's a weird thought. And this is in no way an excuse for your past behavior. But do you think part of your flirting with women was an (incredibly inappropriate) act of kindness/generosity on your part to make them feel good/special?

Ha ha, I should be a lawyer or one of the PR people who spins things.




SuperConfusedHusband said:


> The type 7 is a very new thing to me, about 3 years now. I used to be the reliable and steady one, but it was all out of fear of not being successful in business. I led a life of just work since I was 20. Then I succeeded in business and (coincidence???) I'm seeking excitement. I'm bored very easily with everything(including women) and I'm always trying new things. Some of them might be even weird like new colones at Macy's or pick up surfing, a personal trainer, a new degree (I already have 2) and last one from this morning...I thought it would be really cool to visit Rhode Island.
> 
> ***Robert Glover definition of a "Nice Guy" (This is how I remember it).
> A nice guy is somebody that thinks that by pleasing others, specifically women, he will get approval by them and in return obtain admiration and potentially sex.
> ...


[/QUOTE]

Very interesting about the type 7, if you read the other types in that section I wonder if they are close to how you were prior to your success.

Even though I am a woman, I keep meaning to read that book because I think it could help me too. BTW, that is SO TRUE about men. Those "nice guys" they describe - they make my skin crawl. So martyred. So manipulative. So pathetic. So self-delusional. Go away "nice guy"!!!


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> You wife's attitude is strange. I think she is very naive about how things like this can damage and even destroy a marriage. I wonder if she too has lax attitudes on this, and few boundaries with the opposite sex?


I think she is very sure of me. She knows I would never leave her, but I dont know how much she would be able to toleratewhat I do. Honestly we have never had any conversation about this topic, well maybe a couple, but she doesnt seem to be worried about me leaving at all.

So I thought about her doing the same thing as I'm doing and what she would be doing. I'm 100% sure she gets male attention, but I think she just doesnt notice. While I tell her which of her friend I find attractive, she never does tell me anything about males. Weird? 
By telling her that I like (for example) her friend Bethany, she chuckles and says "I know you like her...", and sometimes I jokingly say "we should invite her over and see if she wants a threesome", and my wife THINKS about it but then turns it down in a joking way like "I dont think she will go for it, or I could not have that with her she is my friend...it would be awkward." 

It's possible that my wife has hidden crazy wild fantasies, but never explored them. I will have to investigate.
I know that the main issue for her is losing me. Which will never happen, even if we start attending wild orgies twice a month! lol


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> I too would find it hilarious if that happened to my husband, but then he has very strong boundaries re women. I'm sure it would make him very uncomfortable. And he doesn't get out much without me. I worry about a lot of thing in our relationship, but him cheating is not one of them.


My wife doesnt worry about me AT ALL either. She also knows I love to flirt around and she doesnt seem to mind. Maybe if your husband started doing it, you would start worrying.



WorkingWife said:


> Here's a weird thought. And this is in no way an excuse for your past behavior. But do you think part of your flirting with women was an (incredibly inappropriate) act of kindness/generosity on your part to make them feel good/special?


ABSOLUTELY!!! Not just to make them feel special, but by doing so, I feel special! It's mutual. In fact I'm turned off if I start talking to a woman and she is 100% confident, has a husband and kids, settled in and checking me out. I know she is kiind of weirded out by me, so I leave. Young women are better and more fun to talk to, because their lives are almost always quiet confused, and I can offer guidance, help, be a pillar of wisdom or whatever. I love that!

Thi sis the reason I can get bogged down with women. Sometimes they just want money or things...and I go for it. I never paid for sex, but I paid a lot to make somebody happy.

I also feel guilty because I dont have to worry about money. 
Example from 7 days ago: 2 very cute young women opened a weird asian sweet rice desert place near where I work. OF COURSE I had to talk to them, and I found out their business is not going well...Then I was there the other day, there were at least 30 people buying food for lunch from other vendors, and they were doing no business at all. There were lines or people at TacoBell, Salad Bar, Mongolian food except this asian place. I saw the lady and she looked very worried. I now have this fantasy to go there one day, and I get one of their weird desserts and leave a $100 as tip. (Crazy as hell I know)

As an extreme example, if I find a woman that doesnt need any help in any area of her life, and she texts me and says "I remember you, wanna meet for coffee and then get a room?", I would probably not reply. There is no challenge, no mystery, Well unless she is very cute...but even then if she doesnt appeal me mentally I would not do that.



WorkingWife said:


> Very interesting about the type 7, if you read the other types in that section I wonder if they are close to how you were prior to your success.
> 
> Even though I am a woman, I keep meaning to read that book because I think it could help me too. BTW, that is SO TRUE about men. Those "nice guys" they describe - they make my skin crawl. So martyred. So manipulative. So pathetic. So self-delusional. Go away "nice guy"!!!


I was very close to Type 1, the avoidant one...or which one is it? The one that doesnt trust others at all. Only goal oriented, focused on work...even my boss 20 years ago told me: "you have to start trusting people" and "you dont have to be nice to everybody be aggressive sometimes".

Every woman should read that book so they wont feel bad by rejecting nice guys. I remember when I was in high school, I had a friend of mine, he was the opposite of me. I was shy, chubby, skin issues and a virgin. He was tall dark handsome, partying like crazy and always messing around with ladies.
I vividly remember that all ladies in school loved him even though he was pursuing 3-4 at a time and it was for sex only. Me...I would barely speak to women, and when I would have an interest in one, I would mask it behind some covert agenda (let me help you with homework, let me do this or that for you) and they saw right through me and of course let me help but that was it. So eventually I would go home frustrated cause I couldnt get a date and masturbate later, and my friend will be partying with 2 ladies at the same time and barely stand up the next morning.
He was just very authentic and asked for what he wanted.

Grown up nice guys are even worse, and their covert agendas extend to their jobs too. I had 2 accountantants ilke that and had to fire them! :scratchhead:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I think she is very sure of me. She knows I would never leave her, but I dont know how much she would be able to toleratewhat I do. Honestly we have never had any conversation about this topic, well maybe a couple, but she doesnt seem to be worried about me leaving at all.
> 
> So I thought about her doing the same thing as I'm doing and what she would be doing. I'm 100% sure she gets male attention, but I think she just doesnt notice. While I tell her which of her friend I find attractive, she never does tell me anything about males. Weird?
> By telling her that I like (for example) her friend Bethany, she chuckles and says "I know you like her...", and sometimes I jokingly say "we should invite her over and see if she wants a threesome", and my wife THINKS about it but then turns it down in a joking way like "I dont think she will go for it, or I could not have that with her she is my friend...it would be awkward."
> ...


 Countless people in the past have said the same thing, they are very sure of their spouses, guess what happened.:frown2: 
I am sure that neither of us would ever cheat, but we also would never play with fire like you do and open ourselves up to temptation.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> I am sure that neither of us would ever cheat, but we also would never play with fire like you do and open ourselves up to temptation.


This reminds me of a news story I read the other day. Some kid was in the basement using matches to kill ants. Seems pretty innocent as far as insect torture goes. Well the matches caused something nearby to catch on fire and the house burned down.

Seems like a good analogy for what's going on with SuperConfusedHusband.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> By telling her that I like (for example) her friend Bethany, she chuckles and says "I know you like her...", and sometimes I jokingly say "we should invite her over and see if she wants a threesome", and my wife THINKS about it but then turns it down in a joking way like "I dont think she will go for it, or I could not have that with her she is my friend...it would be awkward."


At ball games, my H always jokingly asks me to pick out the cheerleader I want to take home for a 3-some. I always pick one I know he finds unattractive. heh heh.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> This reminds me of a news story I read the other day. Some kid was in the basement using matches to kill ants. Seems pretty innocent as far as insect torture goes. Well the matches causes something nearby to catch on fire and the house burned down.
> 
> Seems like a good analogy for what's going on with SuperConfusedHusband.


Yeah, good analogy! That's why I used a fire extinguisher on my matches. The smell is horrible, but at least the house will not burn down LOL

*Day 4 of no talk and no contact.*
Today I added "no eye contact" with ladies, that seems to keep a lot of people in their place. I only got chatted by a cashier in her early 50s who totally initiated the talk cause I didnt say a word. I did reciprocate the chitchat mainly making small comments and laughing at the funny stuff she was saying. Then I left.

I feel like crap, like my mom, my sister and my cat died all together, and my car broke down and I lost all my hair!
I dont know this is not good.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> At ball games, my H always jokingly asks me to pick out the cheerleader I want to take home for a 3-some. I always pick one I know he finds unattractive. heh heh.


I didnt know thee was such a thing as an "unattractive cheerleader". :grin2:


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> This reminds me of a news story I read the other day. Some kid was in the basement using matches to kill ants. Seems pretty innocent as far as insect torture goes. Well the matches causes something nearby to catch on fire and the house burned down.
> 
> Seems like a good analogy for what's going on with SuperConfusedHusband.


Absolutely, and he and his wife are VERY naive if they think that an affair wont happen if this carries on.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> My wife doesnt worry about me AT ALL either. She also knows I love to flirt around and she doesnt seem to mind. Maybe if your husband started doing it, you would start worrying.


My first husband did it all the time and I wasn't worried. But when we got divorced I learned I should have been worried. He was screwing every willing woman in sight.

Here's the thing with your wife - 1) You have said she doesn't know how far this flirting goes. 2) She and you are both naive if you think your behavior is safe. It is not. As others have said, you are playing with fire. The internet is filled with stories of people who never dreamed they would cheat but got chummy with a member of the opposite sex and accidentally fell in love, did cheat, destroyed their marriage/family/life.




SuperConfusedHusband said:


> I also feel guilty because I dont have to worry about money.
> Example from 7 days ago: 2 very cute young women opened a weird asian sweet rice desert place near where I work. OF COURSE I had to talk to them, and I found out their business is not going well...Then I was there the other day, there were at least 30 people buying food for lunch from other vendors, and they were doing no business at all. There were lines or people at TacoBell, Salad Bar, Mongolian food except this asian place. I saw the lady and she looked very worried. I now have this fantasy to go there one day, and I get one of their weird desserts and leave a $100 as tip. (Crazy as hell I know)


First, you should not feel guilty that you do not have to worry about money. But that's just my personal philosophy. If you feel too guilty, please come flirt with me and help me qualify for a home loan before you totally change your ways... ;-)

Regarding these two cute young girls. I don't think leaving them the $100 tip is a crazy idea, but it doesn't solve their long term problem. You are an accomplished businessman. Give them some real help (with your wife's knowledge of it all...). Buy $100 dollars worth of their weird little pastries, have them cut them into smaller pieces if possible, and have one of them get her cute butt up to the open doorway with a tray of free samples for this returning lunch crowd to taste. People may find out the weird little treats are actually quite tasty. (maybe... LOL)

Oh - weird rice deserts? Have them make sure they're gluten free and add a gluten free sign - a lot of people can't/won't eat gluten these days. Maybe they can sweeten some with something "healthy" other than sugar - like stevia - of course the rice is still a lot of carbs, but if people think they're getting a more damage-free desert they're more likely to indulge.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yeah, good analogy! That's why I used a fire extinguisher on my matches. The smell is horrible, but at least the house will not burn down LOL
> 
> *Day 4 of no talk and no contact.*
> Today I added "no eye contact" with ladies, that seems to keep a lot of people in their place. I only got chatted by a cashier in her early 50s who totally initiated the talk cause I didnt say a word. I did reciprocate the chitchat mainly making small comments and laughing at the funny stuff she was saying. Then I left.
> ...



You seem to think that someone like this cashier being friendly is 'chatting you up'. Its not, its just her being friendly and chatty. They are trained to be that way with the customers. I chat to lots of people I meet, but I don't flirt nor 'chat them up'.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SuperConfusedHusband said:


> Yeah, good analogy! That's why I used a fire extinguisher on my matches. The smell is horrible, but at least the house will not burn down LOL
> 
> *Day 4 of no talk and no contact.*
> Today I added "no eye contact" with ladies, that seems to keep a lot of people in their place. I only got chatted by a cashier in her early 50s who totally initiated the talk cause I didnt say a word. I did reciprocate the chitchat mainly making small comments and laughing at the funny stuff she was saying. Then I left.
> ...


There is no issue with having small talk with people while you are out. 
One of the things that really bothers me about society today is that there seems to be an unwritten code that we are not supposed to talk to ‘strangers’. I hate that. I like talking to people. Do it all the time.

The difference between what I do and what you have been doing is that I don’t do it to boost my ego. I don’t have little games like the one you describe with Nicole which amounts to stalking and a con-man routine. And I don’t delude myself that I’m helping them in any way. 

Yea it’s not good that the only way you can think of to feel good is to play your con-man game.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Absolutely, and he and his wife are VERY naive if they think that an affair wont happen if this carries on.


But an affair(s) did happen! Well from OP that we know of; we have no idea about his wife though. 

I'm thinking that just because he doesn't know that she has crossed several boundaries with other males doesn't necessarily mean she hasn't been involved in inappropriate disrespecting behavior towards her spouse. I think intent has been happening on both sides for quite some time. That needs to be nipped in the bud by both sides.


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> My first husband did it all the time and I wasn't worried. But when we got divorced I learned I should have been worried. He was screwing every willing woman in sight.
> 
> Here's the thing with your wife - 1) You have said she doesn't know how far this flirting goes. 2) She and you are both naive if you think your behavior is safe. It is not. As others have said, you are playing with fire. The internet is filled with stories of people who never dreamed they would cheat but got chummy with a member of the opposite sex and accidentally fell in love, did cheat, destroyed their marriage/family/life.


Yeah I know...I'm trying to avoid it because its dangerous.
I have the suspicion that my wife trusts me so much that she thinks nothing will ever happen even if I flirt heavily with women. I know for a fact that this is not true. I came very close several times.



WorkingWife said:


> First, you should not feel guilty that you do not have to worry about money. But that's just my personal philosophy. If you feel too guilty, please come flirt with me and help me qualify for a home loan before you totally change your ways... ;-)


I'm all for it, but EleGirl has to approve of it first 



WorkingWife said:


> Regarding these two cute young girls. I don't think leaving them the $100 tip is a crazy idea, but it doesn't solve their long term problem. You are an accomplished businessman. Give them some real help (with your wife's knowledge of it all...). Buy $100 dollars worth of their weird little pastries, have them cut them into smaller pieces if possible, and have one of them get her cute butt up to the open doorway with a tray of free samples for this returning lunch crowd to taste. People may find out the weird little treats are actually quite tasty. (maybe... LOL)
> 
> Oh - weird rice deserts? Have them make sure they're gluten free and add a gluten free sign - a lot of people can't/won't eat gluten these days. Maybe they can sweeten some with something "healthy" other than sugar - like stevia - of course the rice is still a lot of carbs, but if people think they're getting a more damage-free desert they're more likely to indulge.


If I have to be completely authentic and honest with them as a businessman I would say: pack it up today, and get jobs somewhere else.The have no chance in the location, market and customer base where they are.
But that would make me look like a nasty guy. Instead I can just keep flirting with them and encourage them to succeed LOL

I found it. It's called Sticky Rice
Recipe: Thai Sticky Rice Pudding with Coconut Sauce | Kitchn


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## SuperConfusedHusband (Mar 19, 2017)

Bibi1031 said:


> But an affair(s) did happen! Well from OP that we know of; we have no idea about his wife though.
> 
> I'm thinking that just because he doesn't know that she has crossed several boundaries with other males doesn't necessarily mean she hasn't been involved in inappropriate disrespecting behavior towards her spouse. I think intent has been happening on both sides for quite some time. That needs to be nipped in the bud by both sides.


Never thought of it this way...hmmmm My wife totally denies flirting with males, but GOSH I have seen in many times!!! She does it in front of me, and I kind of enjoy it. I mean it's innocent.

Also there was a time when we were having a little bit of sexual problems (I was an ass basically...and there was little sex) and I told her that if she wanted to have a boyfriend, she could have and I would be fine with it if it was going to be just sex. She never really answered me on that one, she just said a polite "no".


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

SuperConfusedHusband;17603945 I mean it's innocent.
[/QUOTE said:


> That is how it starts and then the slippery slope takes care of the snowball effect.
> 
> You two really need counseling just to make sure that your marriage has a more stable foundation.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

Bottom line: You're playing with fire.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I continue to shake my head at this post.

OP, you do know people in general are friendly and willing to visit, right?
This has little to nothing to do with whatever fabulous skills you believe you have mastered. I'm a friendly girl. I usually end up visiting with anyone around me out in public. My DH is the same way, has never met a stranger. If I met you in public, I would note your ring, and that would let me drop my guard down a little, assuming that you are not going to flirt or be inappropriate because you are a married man. I would expect that you should be honoring your vows, and in turn my vows and therefore not trying to bed me. You need to realize that people in general are nice, and willing to talk. Not just to you, to anyone nice.

I'm sorry you were so awkward as a teen and didn't experience it much. Everything you are describing as women's reactions to you, I hear nothing that they are enjoying your flirting. I guess the few that eventually give you their phone number don't think you are a total douce canoe yet. It sounds like you pick them so young, they probably are embarrassed to even let you down easy or inexperienced enough to not know how. By flirting with them while they are working, you are really putting them into a bad spot, as they are being paid to talk to anyone who shows interest in their product (windows, coffee, Asian desserts etc) And you are approaching them while they are working. How do you expect your employees to treat your customers? Especially in any form of sales, they were most likely just doing their job, to be polite to all customers, in hopes of closing a sale.

The women that meet you on a dating site are a very different lot. They are looking for a romantic connection. Most of them for a LTR or even more. I'm guessing you don't list yourself as happily married on these sites. You list yourself as some form of available, so whatever reaction they are having to you is completely based on an orchestrated set of lies. They also wouldn't like the real you, in fact they would probably loathe you. I know I would have if I had met you on dating website. Rightly so, because you are a dirty lying cheat.

As I said days ago, you need to come fully clean to your wife. She deserves to know and you need the accountability.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

What she said.


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