# No Hope



## Hopelessus (Oct 29, 2014)

In February my husband came to me with the "we have to talk". He said he has been unhappy for 5 years and I have turned him into something he hates. Sounds lovely right. He continued for months being so verbally cruel that he was blind to it. He has wanted a separation since then. He says there is no hope for us. He can't see me changing. He says I don't say "please" and "thank you" and show him any signs of appreciation. I think he blocked out hearing that a long time ago for him to say that. We saw a mediator once where I cried my eyes out the whole time uncontrollably, especially when she said we have to tell the children after things are settled and we agree on things. To go through with a legal separation will cost $4000. That's half our emergency savings. In the meantime he still lives here, we have no "personal" communication. There is no hostility and it seems like everything is great. It's not. He wants to leave. He wants to set up a kids visit schedule where I leave the house so he can stay here to be with the kids a few days a week. He is just so eager to leave, at the same time he thinks we are still going to have family time like going to the park, out to eat or family trips. I don't know if he fully grasps the reality of the situation. I am so confused.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Is he having an affair. It sure sounds like it.

Why are you doing a legal separation and not an divorce?

Absolutely do not agree to you having to leave the house so he can spend time with the children. let him to find his own place and then let him take the kids there on his visitation time. He's the one who wants a divorce and he's the one refusing to fix things. He needs a huge does of reality.


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

yeah...warped thinking like that is generally affair talk.

Do you want to save the marriage? Or is it over for you too?


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## Hopelessus (Oct 29, 2014)

He denies an affair. I do know that he is close to a "friend" of ours. He acts so different with her and seems to really enjoy talking to her. My heart has told me for a long time that something is up. It's just so painful to imagine that after years of great times together. Our anniversary was last week. Neither of us said a thing to each other all day. I didn't mainly bc I knew it would turn into the discussion of his hopelessness in the relationship. It is all so confusing. I only asked him that we not make any "moves" until after the holiday for the kids sake. They are 6 and 8.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Hopelessus said:


> He denies an affair. I do know that he is close to a "friend" of ours. He acts so different with her and seems to really enjoy talking to her. My heart has told me for a long time that something is up. It's just so painful to imagine that after years of great times together. Our anniversary was last week. Neither of us said a thing to each other all day. I didn't mainly bc I knew it would turn into the discussion of his hopelessness in the relationship. It is all so confusing. I only asked him that we not make any "moves" until after the holiday for the kids sake. They are 6 and 8.


Around here, that's referred to as an 'EA', Emotional Affair. As bad, if not worse than a 'PA', Physical Affair, as he's not putting his d*ck in her (as far you know), but his heart. The one that should be yours. 

If it is truly over, and you should try counselling before agreeing that it is, then it's time to start focusing on what's most important. You. 

Look up The 180 Plan, apply it's principles. It's about being able to protect yourself, prepare for the pain of suddenly finding yourself alone, to be able to set boundaries which will be important (as he still thinks he can continue to be a 'family'), and to empower you to move on. 

I feel for you. Please continue to post here, there are a lot of helpful, wise people on TAM who will advise you and support you.


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## Hopelessus (Oct 29, 2014)

He started talking to me the other night. He said we can't stay like this in limbo. We need to call the mediator again. I told him I don't want to do anything until after the holidays. Let the kids have one more "normal" Thanksgiving and Christmas. I agree with you DayOne. I feel he is having an EA. I feel like I cannot do anything about it. He will be with her at an event tonight. I have to put myself in the state of mind that I don't care and I can't care. I can't live daily knowing that he is thinking of her or wanting to be with her. Is it better that he stay and we live like strangers for the kids or is it best for him to move out? His plan right now is to move into his parents.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You are clinging to the holidays as somethign important when it's the rest of your life that is really important.
If he is cheating, you have to follow a path specific to affairs. 
Usually that involves gathering evidence and exposing. Is his affair partner married?

You will stand to gain alot if you do a legal divorce and get as much custody as possible.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hopelessus said:


> He started talking to me the other night. He said we can't stay like this in limbo. We need to call the mediator again. I told him I don't want to do anything until after the holidays. Let the kids have one more "normal" Thanksgiving and Christmas. I agree with you DayOne. I feel he is having an EA. I feel like I cannot do anything about it. He will be with her at an event tonight. I have to put myself in the state of mind that I don't care and I can't care. I can't live daily knowing that he is thinking of her or wanting to be with her. Is it better that he stay and we live like strangers for the kids or is it best for him to move out? His plan right now is to move into his parents.


please read these links

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

Going No Contact. And Staying No Contact. - ChumpLady.com


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Use this time to get your ducks in a row. Do the 180, it will help you. Finalize the visitation schedule and finances. Negotiate property division. The more you have resolved before you tell the kids the better. They will ask questions like where will be live, do I have to change schools and will you still love me. The more calm and dispassionate answers you can give them about the mechanics of a separation the easier it will be on them-and you.

There is a possibility that once he gets a taste of how difficult a separation can be, he could re-think his "friendship". If you are doing the 180, you will be in the right position mentally to make a good decision for you and the kids.
Sorry about this.


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## Hopelessus (Oct 29, 2014)

What is the 180?
He has said several time that he wants to leave as soon as possible. He wants privacy and to start dating. He wants to start over with a blank slate. Meanwhile his plan is to move in with his parents and have the kids 2 nights a week. He hasn't even spoke to his parents about this. Where does he expect to go??


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Hopelessus said:


> What is the 180?
> He has said several time that he wants to leave as soon as possible. He wants privacy and to start dating. He wants to start over with a blank slate. Meanwhile his plan is to move in with his parents and have the kids 2 nights a week. He hasn't even spoke to his parents about this. Where does he expect to go??


Then what is his problem? There is the door, GO. And under NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU LEAVE THE HOUSE. He wants out, then he needs to get out and stay out. Dont put up with wishy washy bullsh!t.


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## Hopelessus (Oct 29, 2014)

We spoke this morning. I realized last night that it isn't fair that I stay with someone that just doesn't want to be with me. He wants to start dating right away and he needs space to do that..I guess he's not looking back. I also realized that even if he is gone nothing would be different in the house for me. He always worked late. I work a full time job, take care of kids, dinner, bath, bed and house cleaning. What would be different if he wasn't there. I am grateful beyond words that he is willing to pay the mortgage. I need to get that legalized. There are a lot of things that need changing. I told him I would pay the remaining balance on the car only if the title was changed to my name. Again need legalized. We are setting up a child plan schedule. His plan is to stay with his parents, although he hasn't spoken to them about this. He is going to talk them on the phone today about it. Let's see how that goes.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Wait, is he talking to his parents on the phone, or the kids?

I really hope you meant the parents, because Dad moving out is just not the kind of conversation kids can handle on the phone.

You are absolutely right this situation is horribly unfair to you. Under no circumstances do you permit him to date other women while under your family hope. That is just sick.

The 180 is a process that helps one part obtain a degree of independence an detachment from a painful situation. You are cordial and separate. You act as though you are a strong, vibrant, self-sufficient woman, until you actually are. You are essentially forcing yourself to act as though you are detached from the relationship. Since I'm horrible at imbedding links here's the list:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


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## Hopelessus (Oct 29, 2014)

That is very inspiring. I am happy I am or trying to do the majority on the list. Some things are hard not to show. Like the kids. Pretty much that. I often look back though about the good times. Were they real or fake. He told me he has been unhappy for 5 years and started all of that 3 weeks after we were married and had doubts before that. That is so hurtful. The things he says when we talk are just cruel and mean. "Things would be fine if I was dead", " I belong in a mental institution because there is something wrong with" so many more that are so hurtful. I can't live with a person that degrades me so much and doesn't want to be with me. It's hard to imagine that one we are fine and the next bam, a whole new life. I am trying to see the positive in it all. I realize I am lucky. Lucky that he will financially support the kids and I, lucky that he loves the kids, but most of all lucky I can see positive impact it will make my life and how it gives me a new perspective on my own life.


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