# Tried everything but no sex in 9 months!



## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Hi there, I posted on here 7 years ago and have put up with sex about 6 times a year since then with my wife, we have been married 26 years and have 2 children, I put up with the situation for my children, but the youngest is now 10, our marriage has now been sexless for 9 months if I do try to initiate sex I get shut down and she instantly falls asleep, I have had a number of chats with her over the years and I might get sex once or twice more and then back to nothing! I love my wife very much but I am now finding the situation soul destroying.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

I think you've answered your own question. 

"Soul destroying".

And with the info provided it seems you've tried in earnest to communicate with W to no avail. 

Now it's time to consider a change, before 7 more years pass. 

It will be painful but you'll become a better version of yourself.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks for the reply Ragnar,
I really want our marriage to carry on but she says a definite no to counselling, if we could fix the intimacy it would be a great marriage, the most I get is a kiss no different to when she kisses her mom or dad goodbye, unfortunately I can't see anything changing.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It is extremely unlikely that there will ever be any improvement. You can accept that this is the way the rest of your life will be, or you can do something. And that something is divorce - you don't have to LIKE it, but know that you will almost certainly be happier if you do. My ex marriage was sexless as well, and I divorced her (after wasting too many years hoping for change). It was the best thing I've ever done! I moved on quickly and soon found the true love of my life, and we still have frequent sex after 20 years together. Even without such an ideal outcome, I'd still have been much happier having divorced my ex.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Married but happy, you are probably right but I have to try and see if anyone could come up with a solution or a miracle, we have been married 26 years and my wife thinks we have a great marriage as it is! I on the other hand just see time slipping away.
The main reason I stay is for my children and can't imagine not seeing them every day.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Withholding sex is breaking the marriage vow, just like going outside of the marriage for sex. Sometimes you have to shock her into believing you're serious. You may find out that there is something else going on in her life. Or, you might find out that she's just not interested in you sexually any more. Are you prepared for that?

You're fence sitting. That won't last for long. Take charge and do something. No one here will have a miracle cure. There isn't one. You have a selfish, unaccommodating wife. If you want to live the rest of your life like that, it's your choice to do so. I wouldn't.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

My wife is not selfish in any other way just in the intimacy area, she had a great upbringing and has never had any sexual issues, I think one of the problems is she has always wanted to be a mom and now she has 2 children that's job done in that area!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm going to be brutally honest. Your wife is either not interested in sex or not interested in sex with you. She has no desire to got to counseling because she knows damn well the counselor is going to call her out on the lack of sex and ask that she A) be honest about her reason for so terribly little sex and B) require she do some work to fix the issue. She doesn't want to do that because she has no interest in sex or in sex with you.

She has absolutely no reason to change this as she thinks the marriage is fine and you aren't going anywhere. To threaten with divorce will likely result in hysterical bonding sex until she feels the relationship is secure at which point she will revert to status quo. To use the threat of divorce to force her to go to counseling will likely result in her being less than forthcoming with you or the counselor.

Your options are to A) leave, share 50/50 custody of your child, and find a partner that does want sex with you B) stay in the marriage and be celibate or C) get your needs met outside the marriage either with or without her knowledge and consent.

Life is short. I'm in my early 40's and know more dead people in my peer group and younger than live ones. Cancer, heart attack, tragic accidents, etc. This is your only shot at life and once it's gone, it's gone. No refunds, exchanges, or do-overs. Choose wisely.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. I left my husband after 22 years together because I found the lack of intimacy soul crushing also. In my case my husband turned out to be gay so there was no way to fix it except for divorce. I am MUCH happier now. Even standing alone is better than standing next to someone who is supposed to want you and doesn't. But I have found somebody new and it's been like starting a whole, new, wonderful life again. 

Have you told your wife that it is a serious enough issue that you're considering divorce? Or that you're going to want to open up your marriage, which might just lead to you falling in love with someone new and you'll end up divorced anyway. She needs to know how seriously you feel about this. It might open up a conversation about what is really going on. 

As much as you say your marriage is perfect except for the lack of intimacy I doubt that it really is, mine wasn't. The resentment I felt ended up seeping into every other part of our relationship and eventually we stopped doing anything together partly because I was so resentful and partly because he was hiding from me so he wouldn't have to find an excuse not to have sex. It damaging in a way that's hard to express. It took me years to find the courage to leave him. I, too, worried about my kids and guess what?? They are doing great! It was truly the best thing I ever did and I chide myself for waiting so damn long.

I wish you luck no matter what you decide to do about things.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

pjp said:


> Thanks for the reply Ragnar,
> I really want our marriage to carry on but she says a definite no to counselling, if we could fix the intimacy it would be a great marriage, the most I get is a kiss no different to when she kisses her mom or dad goodbye, unfortunately I can't see anything changing.


Then I recommend D. A large part of marriage is intimacy. Without it....you got nothing.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

pjp said:


> My wife is not selfish in any other way just in the intimacy area...


"Other that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

pjp said:


> My wife is not selfish in any other way just in the intimacy area, she had a great upbringing and has never had any sexual issues, I think one of the problems is she has always wanted to be a mom and now she has 2 children that's job done in that area!


So your are as sperm donor only. And a paycheck to support all. Seem fair to you?


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I think you've answered your own question.
> 
> "Soul destroying".
> 
> ...


I agree with the above! If you've tried to talk to your wife about this many times already, and nothing changes, you can pretty much rest assured that this is what your marriage will be like for the rest of the marriage. Have you actually laid it on the line to her though, and stated that this is a deal breaker for you and that if it doesn't improve, you will choose to not be with her? If not, you may want to try that last ditch effort. She may not know what a toll it's taking, but really, how can she not.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

pjp said:


> Married but happy, you are probably right but I have to try and see if anyone could come up with a solution or a miracle, we have been married 26 years and my wife thinks we have a great marriage as it is! I on the other hand just see time slipping away.
> The main reason I stay is for my children and can't imagine not seeing them every day.


"Wife, you decided you're fine to live celibately. I wasn't given that choice, and forced celibacy is an unreasonable expectation. So you get to pick: stay married and I sleep with other people with your consent, or divorce and I sleep with other people and don't need your consent. I've waited 7 years, so I'm giving you seven days to make up your mind which path you're going to decide. No decision means you want a divorce. You've had years to fix this and haven't, so you fixing this isn't a credible option." 

Then walk away. No discussion on the topic for one week. 

After a week, "Wife, what have you decided?"

If it's anything except "I'm fine with you sleeping with other people" means a divorce. And if you're not open to an open marriage, all roads lead to divorce.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

pjp said:


> Thanks for the reply Ragnar,
> I really want our marriage to carry on but she says a definite no to counselling, if we could fix the intimacy it would be a great marriage, the most I get is a kiss no different to when she kisses her mom or dad goodbye, unfortunately I can't see anything changing.


Her answer alone should tell you that she is not interested in fixing anything about the relationship. SHE is fine the way it is, and she doesn't care that YOU are not.
It's up to YOU to figure out how important her lack of caring about you is....


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Some of this is on you.

You are the kind of guy that accepts the level of disinterested sexuality and disrespect from your wife.

It is very difficult to better yourself and make some positive changes but with your track record, I don't give you good odds.

Mrs. Conan knows for a fact that I am going to be inside a woman often, driving her into a breathless and sweaty mess. That is who I am and always have been and always will be.

She has filled the role to be the recipient of my sex and there are no other positions open as long as she doesn't willfully deny me.

It isn't healthy or respectful to develop an attitude like your wife has done with you. My wife knows this.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@pjp before you can decide on what action you wish to take with your wife, you need to decide if this is the hill you wish to die on. If the answer is yes, then do so understanding that there are no guarantees after divorce. You may or may not find a partner to enjoy the kind of sex life you dream of but you will be free to try your luck at finding it. That's enough for a lot of people. 

Suppose for a minute that you don't find someone else with whom you'd like to share a sex life. Would you still feel happier alone than with your current partner? Why or why not?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> @pjp before you can decide on what action you wish to take with your wife, you need to decide if this is the hill you wish to die on. If the answer is yes, then do so understanding that there are no guarantees after divorce. You may or may not find a partner to enjoy the kind of sex life you dream of but you will be free to try your luck at finding it. That's enough for a lot of people.
> 
> Suppose for a minute that you don't find someone else with whom you'd like to share a sex life. Would you still feel happier alone than with your current partner? Why or why not?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


FWIW, I discovered that I was far happier alone and not getting laid, than feeling even more alone with my ex wife and not even having a remote possibility of getting laid.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> FWIW, I discovered that I was far happier alone and not getting laid, than feeling even more alone with my ex wife and not even having a remote possibility of getting laid.


I don't think OP can compare his situation to yours. OP is 52 with 25+ years of marriage (accumulated assets, dreams, and memories) and 2 kids under his belt. I think you were much younger with a short term marriage and no children. I'm not saying he shouldn't divorce but I am saying he needs to consider what's most important to him before making that kind of move. 

Eta:. And just to reiterate, I didn't say he won't or can't find someone with whom he can have sex. I said " may or may not find a partner to enjoy the kind of sex life [he] dreams of" and "he'd like to share sex". 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> I don't think OP can compare his situation to yours. OP is 52 with 25+ years of marriage (accumulated assets, dreams, and memories) and 2 kids under his belt. I think you were much younger with a short term marriage and no children. I'm not saying he shouldn't divorce but I am saying he needs to consider what's most important to him before making that kind of move.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


And I think that’s fair. 

I’m just throwing it out there that for this one guy, I actually felt a lot less alone when I actually was alone than when I was lying awake at 3AM every night next to a woman that claimed to love me, but didn’t. 

And for this one guy... I’d rather take a swing at a ball that I had an even small chance at succeeding at than continuing to swing at a ball that isn’t even being thrown to begin with. 

Small odds that I can influence and have some sense of control over beat zero odds that I had no influence and control over at all. 

But to your point, he should go into the dating scene eyes wide open, because it’s a jungle out there.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

I was married 33 years, now divorced. @Marduk is correct, for me, it's easier to sleep alone than to sleep next to someone that MAKES you feel alone. I can't comment on dating as my divorce was finalized the end of January. I haven't really felt like dating yet. It is hard to divorce after a long marriage, I plan on giving an update in a couple of months.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Marduk said:


> And I think that’s fair.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everything you stated is fair and similar to what I'm saying. Alone may be a better option for OP than married. My point is he has to be willing to accept alone because there's no guarantee he'll even find someone who he wants to have sex with, and who wants to have sex with him, after his divorce. 

Your post where you recommended OP to tell his wife "So you get to pick: stay married and I sleep with other people with your consent, or divorce and I sleep with other people and don't need your consent" may lead the OP to believe finding other sex partners is like shooting fish in a barrel. It is for some but definitely not for all. 

OP, the goal should be leave because you're happier alone than with your current partner. 

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Lila said:


> Your post where you recommended OP to tell his wife "So you get to pick: stay married and I sleep with other people with your consent, or divorce and I sleep with other people and don't need your consent" may lead the OP to believe finding other sex partners is like shooting fish in a barrel. It is for some but definitely not for all.


My point was to put the shoe on the other foot. She's fine with the status quo, and he isn't. So he needs to change the status quo, and this is a fairly straightforward way for him to do it.

She's essentially forced him into a life of celibacy as if he's some kind of monk... because that's what she wants. He knows it's unreasonable, but hasn't put them in a crisis situation. She needs to understand that it's unreasonable and it's about to change one way or another, whether she wants it to or not.



> OP, the goal should be leave because you're happier alone than with your current partner.


Very much this.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, you said you've had a few "talks" over the years about this issue, but have you really laid out on the line the stakes here? Does your wife know that this could well be a marriage ender?

Sex and intimacy is not only a big part (not the only part obviously) of marriage, but it's also implied in the marital contract. Neither partner gets to put the kabosh on that without discussion with the other person involved.

The time for talking is over. Time for action. She's your wife, you have a long marriage at stake here. Time to TELL her that this situation is no longer acceptable to you, and that changes MUST happen or the marriage will end.


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

Tell her to get a Doctors appointment. Get her Thyroid checked and such. Diabetes. A lot of possible factors. 
Hormones can have a lot of impact on “interest”. 
If that is not the issue. It is probably mental or religious. 


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your advice, I need some clarity in my mind and your helping with that,
Unfortunately my father in law died 2 weeks ago who I thought was a fantastic guy, what that did do tho was show up that my wife shows the same level of affection to her mom and brothers and sister in laws as she does myself!
The funeral is in 2 weeks and my wife has insisted I am there to support and do everything to arrange the funeral, I don't mind that as he was a great guy but again it shows up our relationship is one sided.


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## delupt (Dec 1, 2014)

PJP - this is sexual abuse, you either accept it, change it, or walk. Your kids must be teenagers so "staying for the kids" or "I wont see my kids" aren't factors anymore.

Talk of improving sex clearly has no impact and she can ignore any weak suggestions of divorce as passive-aggressive bleating (which is true). As the saying goes, you have to risk losing it to save it - and know the chances of saving it are low.

You've probably heard all the nice-guy accusations and the need to improve yourself (man-up, get boundaries, don't plead for sex, work-out, etc.). Assuming you've tried salvaging yourself and the relationship, it's ultimatum time. 

Go see a lawyer, get some standard D papers drawn up ... get a list of some good marriage counselors with sex-therapy specialty. Then state that unless the sexual abuse stops you'll leave the relationship ... give her option A (divorce) or option B (see counselor). And if option B fails, option A kicks in.

Like I said, this probably wont end well, but if you do nothing, this is the rest of your life.

I divorced at over 50 - it is like coming up for air. There are millions of perfectly lovely women who are very interested in adult relationships standing just behind your lodger of a wife.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

I have tried talking to my wife and she turned it back on myself saying I don't initiate sex! I said I have tried numerous times but I either get her hand on top of mine to stop me carrying on or she turns her back on me and says she's tired, I am nervous about even trying to start anything recently as with all the knock backs I am low in confidence, 
We even went on a 4 night holiday a few months back and I thought we might have a bit of fun but even after I tried to initiate sex she wasn't interested saying she was tired!
Unfortunately I think I am answering my own questions with help from everyone on here.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If you're good with a sex life that consists of kissing your sister, carry on. However; I wouldn't start a brew-haha at this time in her life. She is grieving her father. Give her time to grieve before giving her an ultimatum (which would be useless) or divorce papers.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

How long would you suggest, the funeral is on the 26th?
The more I think about my situation the more I get annoyed and frustrated, I really can't take much more of this!


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It won't stop unless you stop it. That's for you to decide.


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## delupt (Dec 1, 2014)

Go see a few lawyers and discuss your options and find out how your financial position will be if you divorce. You than know some facts to properly assess. Then, you honestly have to be 100% prepared to pull the trigger. You will lose all your wealth with a divorce, of course, and she will be rewarded for her lack of contribution, but the payoff is you get a chance at having a life you can enjoy.

But yeah, I'd give it a few weeks ... dropping the D-bomb before or just after her dad's funeral is a bit of a jerk move but it will give you time to get your head and finances straight. 

And don't initiate sex, just don't, you ain't gonna get it and it looks weak and needy (to her) if you do.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Sure. Make sure you meet all of her emotional needs since she's been so concerned about yours. <sarcasm>


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Did she always have limited interest in sex - except maybe to get pregnant. If so take a look at asexuality.org I've been married to a nearly asexual woman for over 30 years now - too me a very long time (>25 years) to recognize the root cause. 



pjp said:


> Hi there, I posted on here 7 years ago and have put up with sex about 6 times a year since then with my wife, we have been married 26 years and have 2 children, I put up with the situation for my children, but the youngest is now 10, our marriage has now been sexless for 9 months if I do try to initiate sex I get shut down and she instantly falls asleep, I have had a number of chats with her over the years and I might get sex once or twice more and then back to nothing! I love my wife very much but I am now finding the situation soul destroying.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

pjp said:


> I have tried talking to my wife and she turned it back on myself saying I don't initiate sex! I said I have tried numerous times but I either get her hand on top of mine to stop me carrying on or she turns her back on me and says she's tired, I am nervous about even trying to start anything recently as with all the knock backs I am low in confidence,
> We even went on a 4 night holiday a few months back and I thought we might have a bit of fun but even after I tried to initiate sex she wasn't interested saying she was tired!
> Unfortunately I think I am answering my own questions with help from everyone on here.


Best answer for your W. This marriage. I'm tired. 

Other than the lame "I'm tired" excuse, what is the real underlying cause of your W non-commital to sex? Have you asked your W this? If you get a blank stare....do not move and wait it out.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

As for the cost to my finances with a divorce I will be fine,
Even if I waited a couple of months to have a proper talk to her she will still blame me for even talking about or wanting sex, I can guarantee it will be the same answers as the last time we spoke about it, it will all be my fault as I am according to her sex mad!
I know it will come across callous but I don't think I can live like this for another few months.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Before we had children our sex life was great but as soon as we had children she wasn't really interested, she says the children come first and after that sex isn't on her mind at all, she doesn't have any medical or phycological problems, I have asked her if she thinks it's something she could get help with and she says I shouldn't even be thinking about sex as we have 2 children and I should be satisfied without having sex, she sounds religious but that's not the case at all.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

pjp said:


> Thanks for the reply Ragnar,
> I really want our marriage to carry on but she says a definite no to counselling, if we could fix the intimacy it would be a great marriage, the most I get is a kiss no different to when she kisses her mom or dad goodbye, unfortunately I can't see anything changing.


Unless you're doing something wrong in the marriage that's causing her not to be in love with you, you don't have many options but to leave. If she does really love you and want you, it MIGHT be enough of a wakeup call to get her to change, but odds are just as good that now that she has her kids, she doesn't 'need' you anymore.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

pjp said:


> Unfortunately my father in law died 2 weeks ago


Sometimes, when a loved one passes, people feel the need to do the thing that creates life. Sex. Sex gives the benefit of the flood of happy hormones, the feeling of bonding, etc. and can take us away from our grief for a few moments. Have you thought about taking advantage of whatever urge she has for some sexual healing and use that to help restore the sexual bond between you?



pjp said:


> I have tried talking to my wife and she turned it back on myself saying *I don't initiate sex!* I said I have tried numerous times but I either get her hand on top of mine to stop me carrying on or she turns her back on me and says she's tired, I am nervous about even trying to start anything recently as with all the knock backs I am low in confidence,
> We even went on a 4 night holiday a few months back and I thought we might have a bit of fun but even after I tried to initiate sex she wasn't interested saying she was tired!
> Unfortunately I think I am answering my own questions with help from everyone on here.


How are you initiating? Are you confidently approaching? Are you being too subtle? Are you going for the goodies before she's aroused to overcome whatever inhibition or hesitancy she might have?

I'm obviously not your wife, but I am not the only woman who feels this way, either. Confidence is a turn on. A whipped dog supplicant is not. 

I've read of more than one HL "initiating" only to find through more conversation that probably few people would have recognized their actions as anything near initiating sex. It's possible you're being too subtle and, from her point of view, you don't try to initiate often.

As far as going for the goodies too soon, say, for example, my DH and I were taking a Sunday drive down country roads. If he said "Let's pull over and fool around in the back seat." while shoving his hand down my pants, I would not be interested and the intimate touch wouldn't feel very good because my body isn't there yet. Plus, too much risk of being spotted, not a very comfortable back seat, and so on. If he started caressing me while he drove, pulled over to make out for a bit, and got me all aroused, I'd be more than happy to hop in the back seat and damn the consequences.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Math check:
father in law died 2 weeks ago (February 25th,2020)
Sex stopped 9 months ago (June 9th, 2019)
Funeral is on the 26th (March 26th, 2020) 30 days post mortem.
4 night holiday a few months back (December 2019?)

It is entirely possible that Father in law has been approaching end of life for the entire sex famine.
4 night holiday was taken close to christmas , Father in laws last christmas, Christmas that requires shopping for youngest daughter who is approaching puberty.
I'm going to be brutal here. Pjp has missed sex about 9 events. For me that is only 3 months. For an active couple, up to three weeks. 

Now I have never practiced sexual abstinence as part of an end of life ritual, but I'm weird religiously. So advising you on how long to wait is difficult. Generally grief is over when she reaches acceptance. It may be hard to determine when that is with he not demonstrating her emotions. It is entirely possible that she has been grieving for over 9 months.
It is also entirely possible that one of your daughters is emitting enough pheromones to throw her off. It is also entirely possible that menopause (peri or not) is having the same effect.

About initiation. in a productive conversation (you may understand how rare those can be) I discovered that my wife and I were both initiating but neither was receiving the invitation. Mrs Nail was initiating by touch (like you do), I thought it was non sexual affection. I was initiating verbally, she thought it was nagging. Other that flat out saying "hey, you just rejected initiation", I don't know what to suggest. In the current political climate, so much of initiation is now harassment, it's hard to know what is acceptable.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

A couple of years ago, I had to tell my spouse, "Just to let you know, I'm going to be having sex in the next week or so. The good news is, you get decide whether it's with you." It worked.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

As long as you stay honest about the situation. I have no problem saying “when”. 9 months is a long time. And it isn’t just the sex, is it? It’s the lack of any affection or real passion between two lovers.... You are not in this equation anymore. 
Sit her down and use the timeline others here have provided for you. Tell her that this isn’t what you envisioned married life like and you want to feel passion and true love again. And “This” ain’t it! 
I’m betting she will give you the brotherly advice of...Then, leave and find “your” passion. Of course you will be the bad guy. But ultimately, if you have done everything you can in support and fidelity. And are shown to be a doormat or common household furniture. It’s time to move on. Life is too precious to waste on others who disregard their mates and coupling. 


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

If you still want to have the tried to initiate but you turned me down scenario going on then:

Put a big chart on the fridge door. Big bar graph.

Huge.

Of course I'm being facetious here, imho this stage is long passed.

But it would be fun to do. 

She may rip it down daily so you'd have to have multiple copies to put back up.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

pjp said:


> it will all be my fault as I am according to her sex mad!


Refuser's handbook, Chapter 2. She is perfectly satisfied with life the way it is. She has her financial support and her kids. The only things (ONLY) that she wanted to have in the first place. You were a catalyst to stimulate the desired results. 

The problem is that you are "sex mad"...... meaning, you actually want sex, and the fact that you are different than her is irrefutable evidence of "madness".



pjp said:


> she says the children come first


No, sorry. The children are all about HER. Her needs are being splendidly met. She doesn't care about yours. You're a pawn, an object she uses to get what she wanted while maintaining an appearance of respectability.

You're in a tough spot..... I really can't advise you, you have to decide whether you want the rest of your life to be the same, or different.

I also believe that long-term sexual refusal is every bit as sinful in origin as adultery.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

pjp said:


> Before we had children our sex life was great but as soon as we had children she wasn't really interested, she says the children come first and after that sex isn't on her mind at all, she doesn't have any medical or phycological problems, I have asked her if she thinks it's something she could get help with and she says I shouldn't even be thinking about sex as we have 2 children and I should be satisfied without having sex, she sounds religious but that's not the case at all.


Can you see your complacence in this?


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Let me save you ALOT of time........ just quit worrying about it and live with it. I can tell by your writings that you are one to complain, wish upon a falling star, daydream about a change but never doing anything about it. You asked for a magic pill? Divorce, or the threat of one, and I mean a THREAT OF ONE is the closest thing you have, not just saying it, she knows you dont mean it and wont listen. Probably wouldnt work anyway, but really your only chance. No, "talking about it" is going to work.

As for how long to let her grieve, I'd give her a couple of months. While waiting, I would have at least two interviews with attorneys (unless you know who you want) to get advice and to understand the process, and figure who I was using. Then I would have the paperwork drawn up and have her served. Then I would divorce her. She want to reconcile? You can do that divorced as easy as married. A true start over. 

But you wont, so my original suggestion stands.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

It's probably come to this at the moment as after my father in law died we have got together with a lot of family and it points out that the affection for me from my wife is no different to my mother in law or brothers in law and their wives and basically anyone else in the family!
Think you are right as I don't think I can wait a couple of months to address this, it would eat me up now, people can call me callous but they are not going thru this, 
As for how I approach initiating sex, I have taken us on mini breaks and wined and dined, bought flowers pretty much every week and I don't go for it I try to snuggle up to her and take it very slowly, and I don't leave all the household tasks to her I do most of the housework,
Got to do s on me thing as its eating me up so much.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Hoosier said:


> She want to reconcile? You can do that divorced as easy as married.


This is the absolute truth. You don't even need any lawyers. If you two decide to be married again, just do it. 

Seriously, I've been through this one. My first wife cheated multiple partners. Divorce was putting my boys in a bad situation. I stayed.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

pjp said:


> I have tried talking to my wife and she turned it back on myself saying I don't initiate sex! I said I have tried numerous times but I either get her hand on top of mine to stop me carrying on or she turns her back on me and says she's tired, I am nervous about even trying to start anything recently as with all the knock backs I am low in confidence,
> We even went on a 4 night holiday a few months back and I thought we might have a bit of fun but even after I tried to initiate sex she wasn't interested saying she was tired!
> Unfortunately I think I am answering my own questions with help from everyone on here.


She's merely attempting to misdirect you so that it's all your fault. 

This is low-level gaslighting - an attempt to control you by manipulating your reality. 

So just don't fall for it. Sometimes the only way to win a game is not to play. She has zero motivation to change, she's happy with the status quo. You're not. So to her, you are literally the problem here.

Without putting the shoe on the other foot somehow, you're going to remain in a state where she's happy and you're not. Get comfortable with confrontation.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

pjp said:


> Before we had children our sex life was great but as soon as we had children she wasn't really interested, she says the children come first and after that sex isn't on her mind at all, she doesn't have any medical or phycological problems, I have asked her if she thinks it's something she could get help with and she says I shouldn't even be thinking about sex as we have 2 children and I should be satisfied without having sex, she sounds religious but that's not the case at all.


OK, try these on for size-

- I would be fine with sex maybe once or twice a month, if that.
- If sex is so important to you, you should find a hooker.
- Sometimes sex feels like I'm being raped
- I've resented sex for 40 years

This is where YOU are headed if you don't take care of things now. Oh heck, you're already there. You've been there, only you've never put your foot down and enforced absolute minimums.

Let's try the delusional test. Without talking about sex first, if you ask her about your marriage, would she say it's a good or great marriage? Likely yes. That's HER marriage. What about the "our" part of it? 

This is nuts. If she won't go to a MC or IC, there's no future. Not because an MC or IC can always fix things, but because if she's not willing to admit there's an issue that could be helped, what's the point? She requires outside validation that there is a real problem in your marriage. 

I don't agree with Marduk (whom I typically agree with) that an "open" marriage should even be discussed. The choices should be a marriage that respects the vows two people made, or an exit (divorce). You might want to let your wife understand that sex is one of the very, very few things shared between a married couple that cannot be shared with anyone else. That alone makes it one of the most special things in the world. 

There likely is some underlying root cause, *or* it could just be the two parallel lives (work track for you, mommy track for her) that set things apart. 

The line must be drawn here, this far, no farther. You have absolutely zero to lose by taking action. She is so self-centered in terms of what a happy marriage is, that she'll keep trying to swing back to her way of thinking every time you think you've made a little bit of headway. That's going to be the toughest part for you, because every conversation you have with her about this, she's going to be "Why is it always about sex?" That's what she's going to keep swinging back to, as if YOU are the problem.

I have no personal experience in this area. None. Zip. Nada. Sigh.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> I don't agree with Marduk (whom I typically agree with) that an "open" marriage should even be discussed. The choices should be a marriage that respects the vows two people made, or an exit (divorce). You might want to let your wife understand that sex is one of the very, very few things shared between a married couple that cannot be shared with anyone else. That alone makes it one of the most special things in the world.


An open marriage certainly isn't for everyone. It isn't for me. But I'd still have exactly that same conversation, because if she's truly happy with a zero sex marriage, she should have zero issues with him seeking sex elsewhere. 

Not that he _should_, but that he _could_. 

However, I suspect she'd have a real problem with it, which then means that not only is she fine with a sexless marriage, but she thinks she gets to decide that it should be fine for him, too.

Which is the real problem here - she is likely thinking that a vow of monogamy equates a vow of celibacy forever if she decides it to be that way. Which is a pretty unreasonable assertion to make, once it's actually on the table for what it is.

And that's the reason that I would have the conversation, to bring that unreasonable expectation to the light of day.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

pjp said:


> It's probably come to this at the moment as after my father in law died we have got together with a lot of family and it points out that the affection for me from my wife is no different to my mother in law or brothers in law and their wives and basically anyone else in the family!
> Think you are right as I don't think I can wait a couple of months to address this, it would eat me up now, people can call me callous but they are not going thru this,
> As for how I approach initiating sex, I have taken us on mini breaks and wined and dined, bought flowers pretty much every week and I don't go for it I try to snuggle up to her and take it very slowly, and I don't leave all the household tasks to her I do most of the housework,
> Got to do s on me thing as its eating me up so much.


Why in the world do you do most of the household tasks? 

Certainly stop the wining, dining, and snuggling. 

She's got you right where she wants you. A free ride for her, and if you don't think some other man will eventually if not already fill her physical needs, your mistaken


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Marduk said:


> An open marriage certainly isn't for everyone. It isn't for me. But I'd still have exactly that same conversation, because if she's truly happy with a zero sex marriage, she should have zero issues with him seeking sex elsewhere.
> 
> Not that he _should_, but that he _could_.
> 
> ...


To me, the significance of an "open" marriage is that you can take the high road and point out that isn't at all what the two of you signed up for. In my case, looking back at it, that's what my wife was suggesting when she said I ought to go find a hooker. That's a non-starter and the person making the suggestion, to me, is automatically in an at-fault situation (if that makes sense). If she didn't bring it up, you could propose it as a hypothetical and then shoot down the reasons it's not right, why divorce is really the only alternative. Straw man thing.

The most-important goal for @pjp should be to take action immediately. No more talk. It would be tough for him to get into a worse situation than he's already in. He knows the score. He has seen things go from really bad to impossibly bad. Hopefully he came here looking for moral support to take action, and not a source for more mental masturbation. 

I can't stand reading these threads and thinking, why didn't I take action years ago, as I'm telling others to do today?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@pjp, 

So far you've heard a lot from fellas and the male point of view, so let me give you an example from a different point of view so you can see how messed up this is. 

Very often, women will say something like "men only want me for my looks" or "all you want is my body"...and equally men will say something like "the thinks of me as a wallet" or "all she wants me for is my money." So let's just admit: sometimes (often?) men like a beautiful, sexual woman...and sometimes (often?) women like a man who can provide for them. It's just true. 

Now, let's turn this around and get a different view of this issue, because if you continue on and nothing changes, then guess what? Nothing will change! So let's look at this in a new way. 

What would happen if you just suddenly stopped providing finances and care for your wife? You get your paycheck deposited into YOUR bank account (to which she has no access), you take away all her credit cards and put a freeze on credit, and from that moment forward, you buy the groceries for the kids, cook for the kids, get their lunches together, buy their clothes... in other words you provide for and take care of the children but are just civil toward her and let her do her own thing. "The children come first and after that, money and taking care of her financially isn't on your mind at all." In fact, "She shouldn't even be thinking about YOUR money as you have 2 children and she should be satisfied without any money or being taken care of at all." In real life, you know, she is a fully grown adult, completely able to be employed, earn her own money, and take care of her own self in all ways: emotionally, mentally, financially and spiritually. 

Do you think if you ACTUALLY DID THAT she would be okay with that marriage? If you just decided for her that she was no longer going to receive what she married you for "because you have children" that she would accept it and be okay with it? Why is it reasonable for her to decide for the both of you about your sexual life, but it is not reasonable for you to decide or the both of you about your financial life? Aren't both "emotional needs"? Didn't she make a VOW to love you for life? Then she HAS TO stay with you with you even if you starve her of care and finances...right?

When we turn it around the reverse way like that, it makes it pretty clear how messed up this is, right?


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

All the comments on here are either right or exactly right,
I have got to man up and take control of what I do not seek a better alternative that probably won't last past a week, 
If I withdrew my finances she would hit go bananas, but what is the difference between that and her deciding sex is off limits. 
I really wished she would change because I really do love her but I have lost count how many times I have tried to sort this out with no avail.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Affaircare said:


> @pjpb,
> 
> So far you've heard a lot from fellas and the male point of view, so let me give you an example from a different point of view so you can see how messed up this is.
> 
> ...


Again, I think this is, in the simplest of terms, an inability to see past the individual's view of the marriage. It is "her" marriage or "his" marriage and not "our" marriage. In "our" marriage there should be constant thought given to how each party views things. It is not a "happy" marriage if one party has major issues, issues that the other party knows all about. It is ludicrous to even think that such things happen... and yet it's common. 

Marriage is not an "I" thing or a "You" thing. It's an "US" thing.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Casual Observer said:


> Again, I think this is, in the simplest of terms, an inability to see past the individual's view of the marriage. It is "her" marriage or "his" marriage and not "our" marriage. In "our" marriage there should be constant thought given to how each party views things. It is not a "happy" marriage if one party has major issues, issues that the other party knows all about. It is ludicrous to even think that such things happen... and yet it's common.
> 
> Marriage is not an "I" thing or a "You" thing. It's an "US" thing.


Exactly. 

The same agreement goes for monogamy as well. 

You can’t ask for monogamy without accepting some level of accountability for your partners sexual satisfaction.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

pjp you seem to be strongly motivated to your daughters so perhaps this reason may resonate with you. When your wife says that you are sex mad, and that children come first she is pushing 2 unhealthy agendas onto your family. There will be long term damage done to your daughters by the continuation of these mistaken ideas.

First sex madness. This is the idea that sexual activity is not normal. If your daughters learn this ideology it will cripple their ability to ever have a sexual relationship. This teaching leads to restrictions on talking about or seeing any thing of a sexual nature. For example, pregnancy, kissing, public displays of affection and so on. all of these things are not just naughty, they are madness, or insanity. honestly the emotional crippling of the all sex is crazy theory leads to kids who can never be adults. And that leads nicely to point 2.

Children come first. Sure we value our children. We protect our children. We sacrifice for our children. We want our children to have everything they need. The trouble is that all of this focus on the children neglects the fact that the number one thing children heed is happy parents. Next is that the whole point of having and raising children is that they become adults. The children come first club, glosses over this point. In fact there is no expectation that the children will ever reach a stage when they don't need Mommy. Because if they did, Mommy would cease to be mommy. 

What I am saying is that if you want your girls to be happy long term, then Mom is going to have to give them 2 important things. A happy father. And the freedom to grow and make their own mistakes. That is (especially to teen children) putting the children first. And it is a whole lot harder than doing everything for them.

Anyway that needed to be said. 
Your idea that you can't wait a few months is surprising to me. I'm very much in a boat like yours. I know from experience and observation that you can go for years. I'm not saying you should. Like you I haven't divorced. I'm waiting for a change that will never come. My children are adults, I don't even have the "for the kids" excuse. I'm just not motivated to do anything else.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

pjp said:


> All the comments on here are either right or exactly right,
> I have got to man up and take control of what I do not seek a better alternative that probably won't last past a week,
> If I withdrew my finances she would hit go bananas, but what is the difference between that and her deciding sex is off limits.
> I really wished she would change because I really do love her but I have lost count how many times I have tried to sort this out with no avail.


Shake her up. Put your paycheck in YOUR account, pay the bills, cut her off. 

Just do it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Shake her up. Put your paycheck in YOUR account, pay the bills, cut her off.
> 
> Just do it.


While they are married, there might be serious legal consequences to him doing that.

But I agree with shaking the situation up. It's time to be bold.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Marduk said:


> While they are married, there might be serious legal consequences to him doing that.
> 
> But I agree with shaking the situation up. It's time to be bold.


Yep.

And 7 more years passed.....

OP, it's in your hands. At this point SHE'S NOT RESPONSIBLE for your position, YOU ARE.

If you don't do anything to change your circumstances you'll have to admit to yourself you're living the life YOU CHOSE.

You can change your stars. But you have to realize you can, or stop looking for different answers.


There just ain't no more talk to be had. Time for action or acceptance. 

Choose, my friend.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Great steaming mounds of bovine excrement.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Marduk said:


> While they are married, there might be serious legal consequences to him doing that.


Like what? Couples can manage money any way they want, for the most part.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Sfort said:


> Like what? Couples can manage money any way they want, for the most part.


I’m not a lawyer but I’m fairly sure his income is considered their income.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

pjp said:


> All the comments on here are either right or exactly right,
> I have got to man up and take control of what I do not seek a better alternative that probably won't last past a week,
> If I withdrew my finances she would hit go bananas, but what is the difference between that and her deciding sex is off limits.
> I really wished she would change because I really do love her but I have lost count how many times I have tried to sort this out with no avail.


 @pjp, @Casual Observer, @Marduk, et al~

I was not actually suggesting that @pjp do what I posted, but rather that it was a new way of looking at it. Right now, she says "I get the provision and security for which I married, but you don't get the good looks and sex for which you married, and I just decided for the both of us...and YOU made a vow so you have to stay." And on some level, @pjp was wondering if maybe there was some truth to it or at least, "Man, am I a sex freak? Do I really have to stay?" 

I was suggesting that you flip it around to view it in a new way. Would it work if he decided for the both of them? Would she be okay with him calling her a money freak and and taking away what she married for? I HIGHLY suspect not! She would flip out and go on a rampage to get what her marital needs met!!

Thus, @pjp, what she is telling you IS NOT REASONABLE!!! My hope was that flipping it around would make it clear for you. 

My actual suggestion to you would be to say you will be having sex, regularly with an interested partner beginning next week, and she can decide if it is with her or if she wants to destroy her family because she refuses to sleep with her own husband. 

The end.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> @pjp, @Casual Observer, @Marduk, et al~
> 
> I was not actually suggesting that @pjp do what I posted, but rather that it was a new way of looking at it. Right now, she says "I get the provision and security for which I married, but you don't get the good looks and sex for which you married, and I just decided for the both of us...and YOU made a vow so you have to stay." And on some level, @pjp was wondering if maybe there was some truth to it or at least, "Man, am I a sex freak? Do I really have to stay?"
> 
> ...


Oh, no AC I got it and agree with the perspective it brings. 

I suspect there’s a reason she’s happy with all that he brings to the table while she takes sex off the table. 

At the very least, it’s about power. At the most, she’s not into him or is into someone else. 

If she’s LD or has hormone issues, that’s her problem, not his.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

pjp said:


> I have tried talking to my wife and she turned it back on myself saying I don't initiate sex! I said I have tried numerous times but...


You could tell her that you two should schedule sex, say once a week. And find out what objection she has to that, or to actually following through.

Really, if your “partner” is like mine (and she sounds like she is), then anything you “could” do is likely to be, at best, a temporary and hollow victory.

Be aware any steps you take to detach and “test” her willingness to show some interest and “wake up” to what she is about to lose or to actually see your pain could easily turn out to be irreversible. 

This can easily go on forever. Focus not on what you need or want from her, but instead detach and think less and less of her. Focus on what it is you want and need from life, whether that turns out to be with or without her. Plan for a life without her and start taking actions. If by some miracle she finds a new way of being that leaves you feeling loved, then you can always let her back in. If you do nothing, or only attempt to do work on her and your relationship with her, you will remain entangled and stuck. The person putting the lowest effort into the relationship gets all that he or she wants, which is close to zero in some cases, until the other is willing to disengage.

I don’t have much hope for finding a love after I leave, but, sleeping now for months in a separate room, I can relate to those feeling less lonely by choosing to be alone.

Take this advice with a grain of salt, though. I’ve been in these shoes for a very long time, but walked very little.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Marduk said:


> This is low-level gaslighting - an attempt to control you by manipulating your reality.
> .


I liked your post, except I wouldn’t call it low-level. It’s very effective and cruel gaslighting.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Marduk said:


> Ragnar Ragnasson said:
> 
> 
> > Shake her up. Put your paycheck in YOUR account, pay the bills, cut her off.
> ...


Nope. Legal action takes place during and after divorce. Short of throwing her out of the house there is nothing illegal about it. It fails to satisfy legal abuse - her only recourse is divorce.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

pjp said:


> Hi there, I posted on here 7 years ago and have put up with sex about 6 times a year since then with my wife, we have been married 26 years and have 2 children, I put up with the situation for my children, but the youngest is now 10, our marriage has now been sexless for 9 months if I do try to initiate sex I get shut down and she instantly falls asleep, I have had a number of chats with her over the years and I might get sex once or twice more and then back to nothing! I love my wife very much but I am now finding the situation soul destroying.


Might she be unwell? 
Have you both been to see a doctor and had some checks. It is not normal to be like that if you are young enough to have a child of ten. 

While it is not at all a good situation to be in, I think I would try to seek outside help before allowing my soul to be destroyed. It might not be her fault necessarily. So I would start that discussion again but away from the bedroom or even away from the house where there is no pressure to do anything about it but talk. She will have an opinion about it. You need to know what it is and she needs to know how you feel. 

After that you can use the information to make informed decisions. She needs to know you love her as much as you say you do.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

But does pjp really love her as much as he says he does? I'm not seeing it. 9 months have come and gone. 9 times his hopes have been raised and crushed. He is detaching, he is thinking more of himself and less of the couple. She is figuratively carving herself out of his heart one rejection, one accusation at a time. And she doesn't have a clue how he feels. Not a glimmer of dawning. And by his account she is doing the same to every close person in her life. Except the kids.
why?
what is the name for it?


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

pjp said:


> It's probably come to this at the moment as after my father in law died we have got together with a lot of family and it points out that the affection for me from my wife is no different to my mother in law or brothers in law and their wives and basically anyone else in the family!
> Think you are right as I don't think I can wait a couple of months to address this, it would eat me up now, people can call me callous but they are not going thru this,
> *As for how I approach initiating sex, I have taken us on mini breaks and wined and dined, bought flowers pretty much every week and I don't go for it I try to snuggle up to her and take it very slowly, and I don't leave all the household tasks to her I do most of the housework,*
> Got to do s on me thing as its eating me up so much.


That's not initiating sex. You've turned sex into something transactional. You give her flowers, and she is supposed to pay you back with sex. You take her to dinner, and she is supposed to pay you back with sex. You do most of the housework, and she is supposed to pay you back with sex.

None of that makes her feel desirable or sexy, or even loved. It just feels to her like you wouldn't even do those things for any other reason than making her have sex with you. Like a hired prostitute.

To initiate sex with any chance of a good response, you have to detach it from all these expectations. You have to make her feel that sex is something you can BOTH enjoy for itself, without all these reciprocity manipulations. If that's been your dynamic for ages, it's going to be very hard to retrain her thinking.

While you are waiting for her grief to pass, see what you can do to reset things. Do your share of the housework because you live in the house. Bring her flowers because they brighten up the house and make her smile. Take her out to dinner for a change of scenery. Meanwhile, figure out what DOES make her feel desirable and sexy and loved, and do those for a while, WITHOUT any accompanying pressure for sex.

When it's time, hit her up with "okay wife, I can't live like this any longer. *We* either go to therapy and figure out *our* sexual problems together, or *we* get divorced." But you have to promote the sexlessness as a marriage problem to solve together, not a _her_ problem that _she_ has to be the one to fix under threat of _you_ divorcing _her_. I hope you can see the difference between expressing it with the *bold* way as opposed to the _italic_ way.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Stop buying flowers. 
Start going where you want alone once a week. 
It is not your job to "make her feel" anything. You desire her. You used to love her. That was your job. Nothing else.
No pressure for sex ever again. Asking for what she has so vehemently denounced is harassment. So don't do it.


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## 2under1roof (Aug 15, 2014)

Maybe you need to set the mode. Have you tried roses, a nice dinner, hotels, poems. I think a lot of times women fall into this mode because they themselves are missing something they need from their husbands. Is it possible she has told you what she wanted and you haven't done that thing yet.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

I have never pressured her for sex, even when we discuss it I say I want her to want to do for herself not just for me,
I have tried everything, 
One of the reasons I do most of the household work is one time she told me that she is to tired for sex as she believed she done all the household work so I took it upon myself to do most of it, of course that didn't work either, 
She has told me on a number of occasions she isn't bothered about sex, 
I have said that we don't have to go all the way we can just have a play and nothing else and see if that is better for her, I got told OK we will do that but then nothing happens ever, 
I have tried cuddling her but as soon as I put my arm on her she clamps my hand down with hers so I can't move it, then when she moves as far across the bed as possible to make sure I have the message that that's as far as it goes.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

I have tried weekend's or midweek holidays in posh hotels,
Tried flowers of all kinds
I always compliment her on how she looks
I am always telling her how that I love her

She will also talk to friends and say all sorts of sexual innuendos and joke about a sex life when I can hear her and still nothing!


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

go
wherever
you
want
without her
every 
week.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

pjp said:


> I have tried weekend's or midweek holidays in posh hotels,
> Tried flowers of all kinds
> I always compliment her on how she looks
> I am always telling her how that I love her
> ...


Stop chasing her! 

As for her letting on that she's sexually active, most people recognize that there are 'talkers' and there are 'doers'.:wink2: She's just embarrassing herself.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

My wife asked me this morning, what is wrong with you?
Told her that I was not happy with the fact she is happy with no intimacy, and the the fact we hadn't had sex in 9 months, her rey was that she hadn't noticed we hadn't had sex for that long and that she didn't see it as a problem, and now isn't talking to me because I have made it a big deal! And she says I have a problem moaning I am not getting any sex as not doing it is normal, 
As a lot of comments on here have said I'm doomed!


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Don't let her suck you in with her not talking to you. Just go about your day, do what you need/want to do, and keep on going. Be a good father, don't be a turd to her or do things to spite her, but don't act like the way she treats you is fine.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

It's time for the money play. When she complains about no money, tell your you don't see it as a problem. When she persists, don't talk to her because she has made a big deal of it. 

When she asks you what's going on, tell her you're preparing for the future, and leave it at that. Sorry, @pjp, but you're done unless there's a miracle.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

pjp said:


> My wife asked me this morning, what is wrong with you?
> Told her that I was not happy with the fact she is happy with no intimacy, and the the fact we hadn't had sex in 9 months, her rey was that she hadn't noticed we hadn't had sex for that long and that she didn't see it as a problem, and now isn't talking to me because I have made it a big deal! And she says I have a problem moaning I am not getting any sex as not doing it is normal,
> As a lot of comments on here have said *I'm doomed!*


You are only doomed and in this situation as long as you allow yourself to be.

Stop making this a big deal. Simply tell her that your relationship will have intimacy and sex. If she is not interested then you will divorce so you can get the relationship you need.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

she didn't lie.
she really did not notice.
you have been agonizing for the better part of a year, and on this day she finally noticed. 
Mark it on the calendar.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

There really isn't any elaborate advice I can give you in this situation. You need to make a choice. Either you accept it and stay, or you decide to get a divorce and find what you're looking for. The only thing I question in these situations is use of the word love. I know you say you love her, but I always question if spouses that withhold sex truly love their spouses in situations like this. I don't think they do.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

The issue here is not that you are in a sexless marriage. That's just symptomatic of a larger issue. Your actions all these months/years have shown you what the issue is (hint: it's you). No self-respecting man would endure this without having some bigger picture issues behind the scenes that he needs to work on. You either do what you can to fix, or you move on. You've probably tried to fix... and ironically did all the wrong things.

The last thing you want is for her to just sigh, roll her eyes and say "FINE! You have ten minutes. I'm NOT doing oral!" That would be filling her wifely "duty" as many here have suggested. I, for one, don't want a wife who doesn't want me to have sex with me. That's not fun for anyone.

Obligatory book promo below:

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

check out asexuality.org

Someone not recognizing that lack of sex is an issue is a pretty clear sign. It may not make things better, but it will help you understand your options Most likely she will never change so you are left with either living celibate or leaving. 



pjp said:


> My wife asked me this morning, what is wrong with you?
> Told her that I was not happy with the fact she is happy with no intimacy, and the the fact we hadn't had sex in 9 months, her rey was that she hadn't noticed we hadn't had sex for that long and that she didn't see it as a problem, and now isn't talking to me because I have made it a big deal! And she says I have a problem moaning I am not getting any sex as not doing it is normal,
> As a lot of comments on here have said I'm doomed!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

pjp said:


> My wife asked me this morning, what is wrong with you?
> Told her that I was not happy with the fact she is happy with no intimacy, and the the fact we hadn't had sex in 9 months, her rey was that she hadn't noticed we hadn't had sex for that long and that she didn't see it as a problem, and now isn't talking to me because I have made it a big deal! And she says I have a problem moaning I am not getting any sex as not doing it is normal,
> As a lot of comments on here have said I'm doomed!


You didn't finish that conversation as in you didn't tell her that "no, not having sex isn't normal in marriage". You didn't state your needs and expectations and views on the matter. You LET her run roughshod over you. 

Are you conflict avoidant? Are you afraid of your wife?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

pjp said:


> It's probably come to this at the moment as after my father in law died we have got together with a lot of family and it points out that the affection for me from my wife is no different to my mother in law or brothers in law and their wives and basically anyone else in the family!
> Think you are right as I don't think I can wait a couple of months to address this, it would eat me up now, people can call me callous but they are not going thru this,
> As for how I approach initiating sex, I have taken us on mini breaks and wined and dined, bought flowers pretty much every week and I don't go for it I try to snuggle up to her and take it very slowly, and I don't leave all the household tasks to her I do most of the housework,
> Got to do s on me thing as its eating me up so much.


Read the book No More Mr Nice Guy. You're doing this all wrong.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

leftfield said:


> You are only doomed and in this situation as long as you allow yourself to be.
> 
> Stop making this a big deal. Simply tell her that your relationship will have intimacy and sex. If she is not interested then you will divorce so you can get the relationship you need.


This.


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

turnera said:


> Read the book No More Mr Nice Guy. You're doing this all wrong.


Tunera is absolutely right here. In this book, Glover speaks of men creating "covert contracts" in which they identify actions in their heads that they assume will produce the desired response from their spouse. However, they never reveal these private contracts to their partners, creating hidden expectations that never are fulfilled - primarily because their partner never is aware of them. 

Instead of immediate divorce push, my suggestion would be to look inward and use the tools of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" to start cleaning up your side of the street. It will give you a couple more months in the house with your family and better prepare you for your life, post-divorce.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Just a quick review.
16 years of healthy (accepted) sex life.
2 daughters born.

Wifes statements:
Sex isn't important.
Parents don't have sex.
Children come first.
I'm tired.
He is sex mad.

10 years of maintenance sex 1 - 2 per month.
No sex since last july. 
Wife's father died 2 weeks ago.
Funeral is in 2 weeks.

He can afford to divorce.
He does not want to lose time with his daughters 
Youngest daughter age 10.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Mr Nial, pretty much bang on the money.
Unfortunately.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you going to get the book?


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Might just do that and get me some attitude.
I can't and won't be horrible to her but I know my attitude has to change.


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## rinnylong (Mar 10, 2020)

Watch a sexy movie with her, make he watch a movie where there is sex and passion and lust. 
I watched 50 Shades a few weeks ago, and couldn't wait for my husband to get home. However - my situation is different so when he came in the door and I tried to seduce him, I got rejected (again) and ended up by myself in bed.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Go about your day and ignore her childish response to a serious problem. In the alternative, this might be an ideal time to have the "come to Jesus " talk. When you do have that talk, please leave your resentment and anger outside. You should tell her that she has made it clear that sex is not important to her. However, it is important to you. You should tell her you support her right to live her life as she chooses, bu not to force you to live that way. Then I would tell her that you would like for the two of you to work on an amicable divorce settlement for the good of the kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

pjp said:


> Might just do that and get me some attitude.
> I can't and won't be horrible to her but I know my attitude has to change.


You clearly haven't read the book yet. It's not about 'getting an attitude'; it's about understanding what your power is in your marriage and holding true to that power. It is NOT about becoming a d*ck.

Women are genetically programmed to be attracted to strong men; goes back to caveman days. The stronger, more confident, more assertive you are in what you are owed in a marriage, the more attractive you'll be to her. The more she'll want to keep you, to earn you. Deserve you.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

This obviously cannot continue. Unfortunately, she has been successful in keeping you at bay with the current tactics. (Have a look at member Cromer's postings-long term celibacy due to wife's refusals) Cromer essentially had to file for divorce. When the truth came out, he had really no alternative but to finalize the divorce, she had been unfaithful, had gotten an STD, and stopped having sex with him to cover up. She persisted for nearly a decade. She destroyed the marriage in the name of covering her ass. 

Your wife refuses sex, refuses talking about it, refuses to go to therapy; can you give me one good reason why she does not wish to live up to her marital vows? I believe that you need to determine what her reasons are for this. Your marriage is not saveable without full disclosure. You may be in the unfortunate situation where you may have to end this marriage in order to be happy.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Question, when push comes to shove, will you really leave her?

It's easy to complain on the internet - that is your first line of defense.

You have since gone back to your wife and essentially done the same thing you've always done. Tell her you don't have enough sex.

She's answered you now. You aren't going to have sex with her anymore. Maybe pity sex once in a blue moon, that's it.

Time for the rubber to meet the road. What are you going to do about it?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Casual Observer said:


> I don't agree with Marduk (whom I typically agree with) that an "open" marriage should even be discussed.


If there were to be an open marriage, the most likely outcome is that she would be out banging guys left and right and he'd be home alone.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

Lila said:


> OP, the goal should be leave because you're happier alone than with your current partner.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I'm not sure I agree with this. 

I think it is entirely acceptable to hope and even believe that you can have a better relationship in the future.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

attheend02 said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> > OP, the goal should be leave because you're happier alone than with your current partner.
> ...


Great. But that's different than leaving solely because think you are going to have a better relationship with someone else. Leave because you simply don't want to be in a relationship with that person anymore, period, no matter what happens in the future.

There are no future guarantees. 

Being single can be way better than being with a ****ty partner in a ****ty relationship that **adds*** negatively to your life. 

Unless you are a person who would rather be in an absolute crap horrible relationship than to be single. There are people like that out there.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Great. But that's different than leaving solely because think you are going to have a better relationship with someone else. Leave because you simply don't want to be in a relationship with that person anymore, period, no matter what happens in the future.
> 
> There are no future guarantees.
> 
> ...


I agree.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

attheend02 said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is entirely acceptable to hope and even believe that you can have a better relationship in the future.


I think it's well and good to hope for a better relationship in the future but it shouldn't be your goal.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

Lila said:


> I think it's well and good to hope for a better relationship in the future but it shouldn't be your goal.


I see nothing wrong with having a goal of a better relationship. I agree that it may be good to have realistic expectations of meeting that goal, though


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

attheend02 said:


> I see nothing wrong with having a goal of a better relationship. I agree that it may be good to have realistic expectations of meeting that goal, though


I'm going to start a thread to discuss this topic so we don't continue the thread jack.


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## attheend02 (Jan 8, 2019)

Lila said:


> I'm going to start a thread to discuss this topic so we don't continue the thread jack.


Sounds good, although I think it is entirely relevant to the OP's predicament.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

pjp, you have your answer. You have kids and she has what she wants. YOU DO NOT COUNT! For her, the marriage is good. Remember that old saw from the alcoholics: If you always do what you always did, you will get what you always got.
Her actions amount to infidelity, and you are being held hostage. FILE YESTERDAY!! Good God man, get rid of her!


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Hi all, I had a very serious talk with my wife last night and for the first time she thought I was deadly serious, I did have a very different attitude to how I was this time as well. 
To cut a very long story short I told her we were over as I would rather be on my own than the present situation and that I had already rented an apartment to live in with enough bedrooms for my daughters to stay with me half the week, 
Reality hit as she cried most of the night and she NEVER cries when we argue,
She said she would change and if needs be see a MC or doctor or anyone as she did love me so much, 
She says she got herself in a major rut and couldn't see a way out of it as she is so stubborn,
She is now saying she will do anything to get back to anything like we were years ago before we had children and even see a sex therapist as she loved the way we were and loved the intimacy we had,
I know a lot on here will say she is bluffing but she acted very different to our usual discussions, and this morning I have told her I will be contacting a MC this morning and she is fine with that, 
We had some great sex last night and she either acted very well or she really enjoyed it, and she is not like she normally is this morning either she is being very nice, even the kids have asked if she is OK, 
It's all a bit surreal at the mo and I am certainly not taking it for granted that everything is going to be OK but as she is willing to go to a MC then I've got to give it a chance as if we can remotely get back to how we were before children it would be fantastic,


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## delupt (Dec 1, 2014)

This is a good first step ... maybe she believed the ultimatum this time, maybe not, but irrespective this is just a first step. It is not uncommon for the abuse to return all too soon within a few months, of course. You have taken control of the situation and you need to maintain this. All that NMMNG stuff put in full effect. She needs you confidently in control, setting boundaries and standing by them. Then, maybe, just maybe, you could salvage this.

I assume you really have rented an apartment, and that it was not just a bluff. If so, maybe consider following through on it and spending a few nights per week there. Don't be pissy about it or do it for passive-aggressive reasons to punish her; you have made a plan and you intend to stand by it; you have laid out your terms of what you consider a normal relationship; she gets it and agrees. Don't cave now. 

We all want to be in an intimate relationship, but many women just turn it off (unconsciously) in the way most men can't. You have to inspire her to be attracted to you. Again, it's largely unconscious, many women react to male behavior (act like a puszy and you wont see theirs, act confidently and it's on). 

We might not like the rules, but we have to play by them.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille". 

Her daddy isn't even in the ground, yet. Be prepared for backlash, anger and resentment.

Seriously? You just couldn't wait until after the funeral, at least? Did you deliberately sabotage?

It was a chicken-shizz move.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Good luck working things out. Don't let up. Not for a microsecond. It will be hard and take a long time for her to change. You've made sacrifices for a long time. Now it's her turn to be a wife. Glad to hear you have options. Had you not take steps to prove your commitment to a solution, you would not be where you are this morning.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Sounds like she needed the full blown smack with a rafter to the side of the head. You made it clear, it woke her up, now keep it that way. She has to do her part, and so do you. 

I really hope you guys can work this out and save your family.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Blondilocks- that is unfair, my father in laws funeral has also been postponed for 2 weeks minimum due to the corona virus, so the earliest it will be is the middle of April, 
I am going to try and sort this situation out so my wife's life and mine and my children's lives are for the better, surely it is better to sort this out sooner rather than later, especially for my own sanity, 
I know this is very early days but we might be a much better family unit by the time the funeral comes round and be able to support each other better, 
I have to be optimistic because I would not be putting the right effort into it to hopefully make it work, I sincerely hope my wife does the same.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Ps, the apartment is a colleague's at work who is going to America on business for 2 months who my wife does not know,


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## delupt (Dec 1, 2014)

It's never a good time and delaying ultimatums is a fail strategy. 

Just be sure that when you are "putting the right effort into it" that you are not doing any date-night, flowers, future planning, clearing-up after her, housework, or any of that other BS that got her to this place. 

You hold your frame, be civil, playful, amusing, teasing, etc. but totally unconcerned by her reactions. Get into your own things ... hopefully she will want to join you on your journey in an adult relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Well that was a fast turn.

Backing your play was good but her rapid 180 is surprising.

I hope everything is above board.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

I know I have to hold my nerve and keep my head up to not let this slide over the next number of weeks,
I feel the same about the turnaround but I do believe she took me much more seriously this time, I can only do what I can hand hope for the best but ultimately only time will tell.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Sorry.... but $100 says that within the next 30 days, things will be as they were. Like that she was sorry, but remember, pay attention to what she does, not what she says. Be kind, be loving, but dont be her slave anymore, and still look into doing things YOU like...... hope I lose the bet, how you proceed will have a lot to do with it.


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## pjp (Apr 25, 2012)

Hoosier, I agree I need to be on the ball and keep my side of things on the go,
As for the $100 I hope you do lose but in any case I won't hold you to that especially as I am not a betting man,


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

pjp said:


> I know I have to hold my nerve and keep my head up to not let this slide over the next number of weeks,
> I feel the same about the turnaround but I do believe she took me much more seriously this time, I can only do what I can hand hope for the best but ultimately only time will tell.


 @pjp I've been there... prepare yourself for a once a month duty sex session... better than nothing...:laugh:


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> pjp said:
> 
> 
> > I know I have to hold my nerve and keep my head up to not let this slide over the next number of weeks,
> ...


You think once a month duty sex is better than nothing?


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

In Absentia said:


> @pjp I've been there... prepare yourself for a once a month duty sex session... better than nothing...:laugh:


No, Just No!!!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

MaiChi said:


> Might she be unwell?...
> 
> It might not be her fault necessarily.


I don't get this. Of course it's her fault.

She's the only one who can fix this. But what has she done:

* Failed to fix it
* Refused to even acknowledge the validity of his concerns
* Continued to live at his expense even while refusing him

If she cared even a little bit, she would fix the issue or at least admit she's not into him and stop being a parasite.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> You think once a month duty sex is better than nothing?


The clue is in the smiley face... 

But this is what he is going to get. Until the kids are old enough. Then, she'll dump him.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

You know what fixes a sexless marriage? Effing nothing. Run yourself and self esteem into the ground turning circles and they don't care. 

When people actually have romantic love for another, the truth is they desire sex from that person. She simply doesn't love you anymore. Not romantically anyway, and hasn't for a long time.

You love her romantically. You desire her. Find her attractive. You want a healthy sex filled marriage with a woman you still love romantically. 

SHE FEELS NONE OF THIS FOR YOU!

It's very sad and I know how it feels. Destroys your self worth every single day. Anyway, its hard but if you want to have an actual romantic relationship, its time to leave buddy. Time to go off on your own and find that romantic and healthy relationship you deisre cause your marriage isn't and won't ever be it anymore. 

Im very sorry for your loss.


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## shortbus (Jul 25, 2017)

What he said!


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > You think once a month duty sex is better than nothing?
> ...


No..... untrue.

If someone remains in a marriage in which they only "get" duty sex once a month it's one hundred percent what they CHOOSE.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> No..... untrue.
> 
> If someone remains in a marriage in which they only "get" duty sex once a month it's one hundred percent what they CHOOSE.


Of course... but for some people - myself included (although our sex life was a little more frequent and not boring) - is often enough because you don't want to break up the family. Might not be enough for the OP... or maybe his wife has now seen the light...


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> You know what fixes a sexless marriage? Effing nothing. Run yourself and self esteem into the ground turning circles and they don't care.
> 
> When people actually have romantic love for another, the truth is they desire sex from that person. She simply doesn't love you anymore. Not romantically anyway, and hasn't for a long time.
> 
> ...


I will disagree with this as a rule. There may be something in the past that has destroyed someone's passion for their partner. And it's possible it has nothing whatsoever to do with that partner denied passion. Sometimes you really have to go deep to find it. It can be extraordinarily painful for the person who's passion died to go through the process. You have to be willing to end the marriage to do this. You have to come to terms with the idea that no amount of "duty sex" can compensate for a marriage without some degree of passion, on both sides. 

It
is
not
easy.

You will be accused of inflicting pain & torture on your partner, putting him or her through a process that some will wonder... why now? You put up with this for so long, why cause all this trouble now? And the only answer to that is that it took this long, this many years, to realize you don't have to be missing that passion, that life is finite, and that all the money in the world cannot take the place of passion in a relationship.

For me, that moment came when I realized she believed we had a great marriage. She was not seeing marriage as an "us" thing but entirely from her perspective. She knew about the issues with passion but felt she had things handled, that momentum was carrying us forward after all these years. It came as a real shock to her that was no longer the case. IC, MC, psychologists and psychiatrists in play and things are getting better. But it's an ugly process.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pjp said:


> It's probably come to this at the moment as after my father in law died we have got together with a lot of family and it points out that the affection for me from my wife is no different to my mother in law or brothers in law and their wives and basically anyone else in the family!
> 
> Think you are right as I don't think I can wait a couple of months to address this, it would eat me up now, people can call me callous but they are not going thru this,
> As for how I approach initiating sex, I have taken us on mini breaks and wined and dined, bought flowers pretty much every week and I don't go for it I try to snuggle up to her and take it very slowly, and I don't leave all the household tasks to her I do most of the housework,
> Got to do s on me thing as its eating me up so much.


You are rewarding her for her bad behavior. This is probably a huge part of the problem. This has also caused her to lose respect for you, which will further decrease her sexual interest in you.

I would recommend that one week after the funeral you implement a new strategy. You expect her to pull her own weight around the house and in the relationship. She is an adult and you should treat her like one. Adults are responsible for themselves. They shouldn’t expect someone else to do everything for them. 

Your relationship is extremely lopsided. That isn’t right or fair and it sets a terrible example for your children. They will grow up thinking this is okay. They will look for a man like you and they will treat their husbands the way your wife treats you.

If you want to have a happy marriage, you will have to make some radical changes that are not going to be well received. Your wife will be very angry when you take away her cushy life and she will react, but you will have to stand firm and let her know that you are done being a doormat and expect to be treated with love and respect.

Don’t argue with her. Don’t explain yourself. Just tell her how it is for you and that you are not going back to being a doormat for anyone. You have expectations to be loved and honored and you have expectations that she do her fair share in the family. There is nothing wrong with wanting a balanced marriage and a balanced life. Right now your marriage and your life are way off kilter and you are the only one who can correct that.

Stop pandering to her entitlement. She got angry with you when you complained about your non-existent sex life. That is her trying to get you in line. Don’t let her think it’s okay to treat you badly for expressing your needs. Her response is classic entitlement and putting you in what she thinks is your place.

Okay, I’ve not gotten to the end of your thread and see that she seems to be realizing that her little fantasy world is coming to an end. Everything I have said is still applicable. Stop allowing her to take over. It’s not right. Marriage is supposed to be about unity. I recommend that you only give her flowers or go out of your way as a reward. If she’s not doing anything to be rewarded for, don’t reward her. And for goodness sake, stop rewarding her for being an entitled drama queen.

The following article is written to women, but it is applicable to men as well. How to Get Your Husband to Treat You Better | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World
It looks to me as if the problem is mainly that you are encouraging your wife to treat you badly. You are trying to nice your way into her affection. It doesn't work that way.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

At the end of the day, he will always be accused of leaving his wife for such a trivial matter like sex after all those years of marriage and children together. He will be the bad man.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> At the end of the day, he will always be accused of leaving his wife for such a trivial matter like sex after all those years of marriage and children together. He will be the bad man.


This is stinking thinking. Marriage is about unity and loving each other. I'm not talking about romance and being "in love." I'm talking about having each other's backs, listening to each other, caring for each other, and working together to make a good life. If that isn't happening, the marriage isn't going to be happy. If one person is unhappy, it is not a happy marriage. It takes one person to destroy a marriage, but two people to make it work. When one person is getting all of her needs met and the other person is basically a servant, that is is not a happy marriage. 

You, @Inabsentia, are way too worried about what other people think of you and not concerned enough about your actual integrity. Be who you are supposed to be and stop worrying about how other people respond to it. As long as you are behaving in an honorable manner, you have nothing to worry about. Honorable people aren't honorable because of what it gets them. They are honorable, because they want to do what is right and honorable.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> You, @Inabsentia, are way too worried about what other people think of you and not concerned enough about your actual integrity. Be who you are supposed to be and stop worrying about how other people respond to it. As long as you are behaving in an honorable manner, you have nothing to worry about. Honorable people aren't honorable because of what it gets them. They are honorable, because they want to do what is right and honorable.


Almost all the women I know and I've met, including my wife's sisters, agree with my wife. This is also confirmed by many online fora, where the women call the husbands (who would still like some sex) horny disgusting dogs... maybe, as a woman, you haven't come across this. I can tell you it does exist. And of course it hurts a lot when your wife doesn't understand it's not just "sex"... I hope I'm wrong, but it's something I see very often here on TAM too...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> *Almost all the women I know and I've met, including my wife's sisters, agree with my wife. *This is also confirmed by many online fora, where the women call the husbands (who would still like some sex) horny disgusting dogs... maybe, as a woman, you haven't come across this. I can tell you it does exist. And of course it hurts a lot when your wife doesn't understand it's not just "sex"... I hope I'm wrong, but *it's something I see very often here on TAM too..*.


All this tells you is that those women aren't for you. It also provides you with an excuse to hang onto what you're used to. 

Your last sentence doesn't resonate with me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> Your last sentence doesn't resonate with me.


It doesn't come directly from the women (mainly)... it's reflected on the men's comments... but it's an attitude I come across very often in real life.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> It doesn't come directly from the women (mainly)... it's reflected on the men's comments... but it's an attitude I come across very often in real life.


Well it's weird. Consider hanging out with healthier people.



Blondilocks said:


> All this tells you is that those women aren't for you. It also provides you with an excuse to hang onto what you're used to.
> 
> Your last sentence doesn't resonate with me.


 I agree with every word of this. 
In Absentia, you may notice that other men talk about having this problem, but so do some women. Some people are like this and they should be together instead of with people who diametrically disagree.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

pjp said:


> My wife is not selfish in any other way just in the intimacy area, she had a great upbringing and has never had any sexual issues, I think one of the problems is she has always wanted to be a mom and now she has 2 children that's job done in that area!


That is correct.

The reason she hasn't already divorced you, if you've got the mortgaged paid off, is because "you're not too annoying...yet"

Google-fu "Female mid-life crisis". She has family, kids, peer approval, career, income, security, time to pursue her hobbies.....

why should she be interested in providing (ie being used for) sex, she doesn't desire it, it's messy, tiring, inconvenient, effort, and can quite happily go without it.

what is it that you bring to HER relationship?

she brings sex, intimacy, emotional and intellectual companionship, to YOUR relationship - but she can get those anywhere and gets most of her needs in that area from female friends more aligned to her interests. At that moment, you're more of a habit that hasn't become annoying enough to do anything about.... (and her kids tolerate you)


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> At the end of the day, he will always be accused of leaving his wife for such a trivial matter like sex after all those years of marriage and children together. He will be the bad man.


Not only should others opinions of him on this issue not be what drives his decision, but this might not even be the way people look at him.

It's just as likely people will look at her as the woman who had a great guy but chucked it just because she couldn't find a little time for him twice a week. And yeah that happen. I've seen it happen for relationships I've been in.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

In Absentia said:


> Almost all the women I know and I've met, including my wife's sisters, agree with my wife. This is also confirmed by many online fora, where the women call the husbands (who would still like some sex) horny disgusting dogs... maybe, as a woman, you haven't come across this. I can tell you it does exist. And of course it hurts a lot when your wife doesn't understand it's not just "sex"... I hope I'm wrong, but it's something I see very often here on TAM too...


Well yes those women exist, but they're not the majority. Like minded ladies in this regard tend to socialize and with that time together tend to reinforce each others' views. They are in the "bubble".

And it's not surprising that your wife's sisters agree with her. You were recently told that you needed to fix this before it became to dynamic modeled for your kids. I'm willing to bet that your MIL didn't do much for your FIL sexually either, or some other sort of sexual shaming was prevalent.

If you get out of this crappy marriage and date a number of women, you'll find out that some do avoid or dislike sex (they're uncommon but not rare) but the vast majority are happy to provide for guys they find attractive.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> @pjp I've been there... prepare yourself for a once a month duty sex session... better than nothing...:laugh:


Been there! Bit I couldn't get at the time, is that she totally enjoyed the physical contact, the massages, kissing, discussion, foreplay, arousal and petting etc, came several times before, during and occasionally after, chat and cool down (I'm not a roll over and sleep guy) - but would she every initiate? no. would she ever make time for us to enough it and have her fuss over me? NO. 

She said she just considered it was something she was expected to do as a good wife and yes it was great, no she never faked*. She just really couldn't bothered most of the time, and I never seemed properly thankful for her efforts (ie during the rest of the week, I just kept bugging her for more). There were no kids in relationship, that happened right at the end when we went on holiday, so I was given "bonus sex" a couple of nights that week while we were away.

I pointed out it was an intimacy thing and really importantly to relationships and me (very high and wide sex drive - that she loved when we originally dated). She said yes she knows that, which is why she usually agreed to "it" once a month if she felt in the mood "for it", and I was "getting an unthankful attitude again" and she had been a good wife and done the sex for the marriage, but was pretty much over it all and wanted to move on. ... 

"Intimacy" and "sex" had just been things she did, like washing or picking up milk. And when she wasn't "buying in"/investing into "a marriage" then the transaction side came out - what was *I* paying her, for sex. It was then I realised while I was emotional inside a "man-team" where everyone is in and shoulder to shoulder helping each other out with fraternal bonds; for many women a relationship is just another transaction, a social contract, if she does X then she is entitled to Y, and that the contract required certain trades (in her mind, sex for house - not for fidelity that was presumed**), and was only valid for as long as she wanted it/was benefiting from it.

** nothing says entitled like listening to a woman complaining about her husband having an possible affair, to her fu..toy.


*this is well after the divorce, and also feedback overheard via her friends, so consider it mostly true


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

pjp said:


> All the comments on here are either right or exactly right,
> I have got to man up and take control of what I do not seek a better alternative that probably won't last past a week,
> If I withdrew my finances she would hit go bananas, but what is the difference between that and her deciding sex is off limits.
> I really wished she would change because I really do love her but I have lost count how many times I have tried to sort this out with no avail.


NO. You cannot change other people.
You are moving to a fantasy in your head and pretending that is your marriage , just so you don't have to face the problem.

Taking care of your own finances is an absolute must at this stage - get over the fact you are not in a partnership. You are in a parasitic relationship, where one person gets what they wants and the other has to pretend.

Doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on - the wanting sex, or the constantly pestered for sex, you cannot thrive in a relationship by pretending it might get better, if only things will get better, or that it's just "your contribution". Things don't get better without everyone wanting to work on it - live, marriage, charity organisations, companies; things continue on the same path until the wheels absolutely have to fall off. Don't waste your life waiting and pretended and talking bull to yourself. If she wanted to change for really, she'd grab your hand a lead in the same direction. HER marriage doesn't have issues, she gets what she wants - yours is screwed.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> Some people are like this and they should be together instead of with people who diametrically disagree.


It was a real surprise that my wife did that to me. I thought she would understand, since our "beliefs" were very much aligned. But she didn't. She did understand I wanted to leave because it was important to me, but she still maintained her view, that I only cared about sex.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

spotthedeaddog said:


> HER marriage doesn't have issues, she gets what she wants - yours is screwed.


well, yes, exactly. My wife feels entitled to everything from me. Because we've been married for such a long time, we brought up the kids together, we grew up together. So, I shouldn't be mean to her, I should support her emotionally and financially and forget about sex. Sex is not important and I should be reasonable and kind enough to understand all this without making a fuss. She is entitled to all she's got - as the mother of my children - and I should just get on with it. It's life. Leaving her for sex? I'm just a pathetic man who is prepared to throw everything away for such a trivial reason. No respect for me.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DTO said:


> I'm willing to bet that your MIL didn't do much for your FIL sexually either, or some other sort of sexual shaming was prevalent.


My FIL and my MIL had major sexual problems, you are correct. I can see where all of this is coming from with my wife, but I don't understand how she doesn't see or she doesn't want to do anything to correct it......


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## ZeroIntimacy (Mar 14, 2020)

Yep I am in a similar situation. My wife and I got married in 2002 and after we had kids the sex stopped dead. Since that time there have been periods of several years when we had sex not even a single time. We have talked about it over the years and occasionally she would attempt to engage me in sex for a period of time (and with very little enthusiasm if any at all) but would always fall back into the abyss or vacuum of space as far as intimacy is concerned (nothingness). I stayed in the marriage because of the children and because of divorce would be financially devastating to my family. It has been a horrible existence. At night when asleep, I would have nightmares about my desperation for intimacy and passion with almost any woman.  The frequency of these nightmares increased as years went by to the point I have been having them every night. I described my marriage intimacy wise to my sister as "my wife is like being married to a pile of lumber". Now my kids are 13 and 14. But will still destroy our ability to maintain our lifestyle for our children especially in as an expensive place as NYC Metro to live. Unfortunately, even if I divorce my wife and meet someone else is going to be spiritually difficult because having been married for so long in a zero intimacy relationship has discouraged me a lot. I see other women and I wonder what it might be like with another woman but feel very burned out after a near 20 year run with no intimacy.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> All this tells you is that those women aren't for you. It also provides you with an excuse to hang onto what you're used to.
> 
> Your last sentence doesn't resonate with me.


Agreed. My wife would think the women here are not normal; that normal women don't enjoy sex nearly as much as guys.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

In Absentia said:


> My FIL and my MIL had major sexual problems, you are correct. I can see where all of this is coming from with my wife, but I don't understand how she doesn't see or she doesn't want to do anything to correct it......


It's not her problem - how much do you care about older your neighbours love life?

That's the hard part I think in all this, after doing the 180, and eventually moving on. You realise you were in an intimate emotional marriage with someone you love, and that you built your world around her - and she was in a marriage that was supposed to provide her with what she wanted in her life; kids, fun, husband(tm)*, holidays, security; chances are she has also built her world around her and the kids, and when the kids can look after themselves, about her. YOU ARE NOT PART OF "INSIDE" HER MARRIAGE. You are/were a provider of services and companion, like the preacher/celebrant, or an usher. You did build dreams together, which amused her, but she moved on, and you never got sent the memo.


* not like as "husband" the person, "Husband(tm)" the attachment to show your friends; has Ken's car, ken's Jacket etc.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Livvie said:


> You think once a month duty sex is better than nothing?


at least its something - more than I got in the last 3 years of each of my long term relationships


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

pjp said:


> Hi all, I had a very serious talk with my wife last night and for the first time she thought I was deadly serious, I did have a very different attitude to how I was this time as well.
> To cut a very long story short I told her we were over as I would rather be on my own than the present situation and that I had already rented an apartment to live in with enough bedrooms for my daughters to stay with me half the week,
> Reality hit as she cried most of the night and she NEVER cries when we argue,
> She said she would change and if needs be see a MC or doctor or anyone as she did love me so much,
> ...


Sounds a good step, it might not last - so be strong, and get both of your houses in order (you don't want to be blindsided if she decides it's to much work and not enough fun), see that household stress levels drop, be attentive, set up routine "date night" each week. If she's really trying to chance, show you appreciate it (but keep caution).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

spotthedeaddog said:


> It's not her problem - how much do you care about older your neighbours love life?
> 
> That's the hard part I think in all this, after doing the 180, and eventually moving on. You realise you were in an intimate emotional marriage with someone you love, and that you built your world around her - and she was in a marriage that was supposed to provide her with what she wanted in her life; kids, fun, husband(tm)*, holidays, security; chances are she has also built her world around her and the kids, and when the kids can look after themselves, about her. YOU ARE NOT PART OF "INSIDE" HER MARRIAGE. You are/were a provider of services and companion, like the preacher/celebrant, or an usher. You did build dreams together, which amused her, but she moved on, and you never got sent the memo.
> 
> ...



I think you are being a tad too cynical here. Some women will do that and the marriage will turn into a transaction. But a marriage can fail for many other reasons.


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

ZeroIntimacy said:


> lot. I see other women and I wonder what it might be like with another woman but feel very burned out after a near 20 year run with no intimacy.


I agree, and it taints our view of women as well, which is not aided by many older women being either crass, alcoholic, or completely uninterested in sex play


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## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

Sfort said:


> Like what? Couples can manage money any way they want, for the most part.




Sexual abuse in a marriage and financial abuse in a marriage are both forms of abuse.

They need to find the root of the issue and fix it, not toy with each other and play games that will cause resentment and further damage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MarriedTex (Sep 24, 2010)

ZeroIntimacy said:


> Yep I am in a similar situation. My wife and I got married in 2002 and after we had kids the sex stopped dead. Since that time there have been periods of several years when we had sex not even a single time. We have talked about it over the years and occasionally she would attempt to engage me in sex for a period of time (and with very little enthusiasm if any at all) but would always fall back into the abyss or vacuum of space as far as intimacy is concerned (nothingness). I stayed in the marriage because of the children and because of divorce would be financially devastating to my family. It has been a horrible existence. At night when asleep, I would have nightmares about my desperation for intimacy and passion with almost any woman. The frequency of these nightmares increased as years went by to the point I have been having them every night. I described my marriage intimacy wise to my sister as "my wife is like being married to a pile of lumber". Now my kids are 13 and 14. But will still destroy our ability to maintain our lifestyle for our children especially in as an expensive place as NYC Metro to live. Unfortunately, even if I divorce my wife and meet someone else is going to be spiritually difficult because having been married for so long in a zero intimacy relationship has discouraged me a lot. I see other women and I wonder what it might be like with another woman but feel very burned out after a near 20 year run with no intimacy.


I'm sorry to hear this. No one should have to live like this. You may want to start your own thread under a new title to get advice/support specifically addressed to your situation.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MarriedTex said:


> You may want to start your own thread under a new title to get advice/support specifically addressed to your situation.


There is no advice... stay until the kids are older/suck it up forever/divorce now...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Not having sex isn't sexual abuse. If it is any sort of abuse, it is emotional. Sexual abuse is actively abusing someone sexually.

Edit to add: Sexual abuse isn't passive, as in not having sex. It is actively doing something sexual to someone that they do not want done to them. Molestation and rape are examples of sexual abuse.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Pip:

You sure talk a lot. This includes your threats to leave her if she doesn't up her sexual game. 

But what have you actually done?

Well, you have told several people in this thread that they are right...followed by you choosing to not do what they suggested.

Then you follow it up with navel gazing about how you wish she would change. 

In other words, more...you guessed it...more TALKING.

So really...what have you actually DONE?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

pjp said:


> I have tried weekend's or midweek holidays in posh hotels,
> Tried flowers of all kinds
> I always compliment her on how she looks
> I am always telling her how that I love her
> ...


Maybe she has a sex life that you are not part of.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Closing thread


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