# The dilemma of wanting children



## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

Anxious to hear from men here as many mommies always want to criticize my posts…

I'm 30 and have been with my girlfriend for 5 years and I have lately been feeling the urge to tie the knot (mostly from her). I feel she is the right partner for me on so many levels, but one thing I cannot understand about myself is how I feel about having children.

To put it bluntly, I do not have a desire at all. My mother recently told me that my father didn't have a desire for children either, but loved them once we were born. I wouldn’t agree with that entirely, although he never acted mean towards us he was completely unwilling to attend sporting events, recitals, etc. So he was kind of a half-committed parent. And my mom attended events, but had a bad attitude as a mother (mostly due to mental instability). It wasn’t a terrible/scarring childhood, but it definitely didn’t leave a great impression on me as to how enjoyable having a family could be. 

On one hand I’d be worried my parenting abilities would be similar, and that’s just one reason having children doesn’t have much allure to me. I also feel like I am selfish now at 30 in that I want to spend my money on me and my girlfriend, I want to be able to sleep in and not go to a kid's soccer game at 8am on a Saturday, and I want to be able to not worry about the choices my children might make in life to disappoint me. My girlfriend knows all this and knows I don’t necessarily want children but would if she wanted them (which she does).

I feel like many guys I know come to this crossroads, too: either marry and have children even if children aren’t your main goal, or stay single and potentially lonely later in life. Not that I want to settle down because it’s my only chance—I really do love this girl. But I feel like my perspective on children will never change no matter the partner. Sure there is a possibility I could meet another great female that doesn’t want kids, but is that worth giving up what I have now? Maybe down the road the other girl in question has insecurities that are more painstaking than children are with my current partner.

So in a nutshell I want to know if many men always wanted kids or if some men found true love and succumbed to having children, although they didn’t necessarily want the latter. If I should absolutely, unequivocally want children then I may have a problem here. I also don’t like when (mostly mommies) say don’t worry, you will soon want to have kids. A lot of people don’t want sushi and you don’t go around telling them soon they will like sushi, do you? I also see a ton of people who rave about how awesome their life was without children, but sometimes I wonder if many of these people just missed the opportunity to have kids and made the most of it versus always breaking up with otherwise great partners because of their attitude. I don't know? Truthfully I just don’t know how to assess my attitude about children—apprehensive, wrong, right, or completely normal? Thanks for any input.


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## bisonsk (Dec 19, 2012)

I understand. I never wanted kids either, but I eventually found a woman that also didn't want children. Up until I met her, I was afraid that I would never get married as it seemed like all women wanted children. 

I think it's natural when you are with someone to wonder whether you should settle and give in on something important just to be with them. My opinion is, you absolutely should not. You love her, but that doesn't mean she's a good long term match for you. 

If you have children you may love them and end up being a good father, but what if you end up resenting them instead? If you are unsure whether you want to be a dad, don't do it.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

Not a man (obviously). I had my daughter very young when I was single. If I hadn't had her I probably wouldn't have had children. Now that I'm single again (and 37) my mother's friends are desperate to tell me that I must want more kids. No. I don't. It's a complete dealbreaker for me.

This is a fundamental issue to be discussed between you before you even think about getting married - I think there are far too many people out there who have done what they think they should have done rather than what they actually wanted to do and are then left with a decision they regret. This isn't just about you worrying about parenting skills - everyone has that. You said you have no desire to have them at all. What about your girlfriend? Does she have a burning desire to have them? You have to be on the same page on this one.


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## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. Dolly, how did/do you feel about your daughter and raising her? I guess your experience is a good example of how not wanting kids but doing it anyway (regardless of if by choice) would be emotionally handled.

My girlfriend wants two kids, and I have told her about my "meh" attitude and she seems to be okay with it. I think my "meh" attitude has been translated by her as, "If you really want to..."


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I hope you realize you shouldn't be "Meh" about having kids. You are creating a human life, and will have a responsibility to care for, protect, nurture, and provide for that life. You shouldn't do that with a "Meh" attitude. 

That being said, I don't want to have kids either. 
Working in a grocery store, has completely ruined it for me. Annoying, loud, hyperactive...that damn store has completely ruined kids for me. I DO NOT want kids. 

That being said, from female posters here, I also recognize the need and wanting for children for women, is a drive just as potent to them as our sex drive is to us. 
And the difference is, they can usually get pregnant. And I hate to paint them as liars, but they can put a pin through a condom wrapper, forget to take their pills, etc. 
If they want kids and are in a relationship, they will probably find a way to have them, guy willing or not.

IF you are 100% certain you don't want kids, then I would suggest talking this over with your girlfriend. 
Because if you don't, I have a feeling she'll either: have a BIG surprise for you that she can't wait to tell you about, or she'll resent you to the day she dies because you won't have kids.


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

JaySt. said:


> Thanks for the responses. Dolly, how did/do you feel about your daughter and raising her? I guess your experience is a good example of how not wanting kids but doing it anyway (regardless of if by choice) would be emotionally handled.
> 
> My girlfriend wants two kids, and I have told her about my "meh" attitude and she seems to be okay with it. I think my "meh" attitude has been translated by her as, "If you really want to..."


I love her more than anything and I'm proud of her and I wouldn't change it for the world but it wasn't easy at first. Raising kids is a challenge for various reasons and I really think you have to be sure about it. You can't just do what you want any more...and at least for 18 - 20 years (at LEAST). It's a long term commitment, not something to do just because your girlfriend wants it and it would create drama if you didn't. You're talking about creating and being responsible for someone else's life - not something to be taken lightly my friend.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

We talked about everything including how long we would wait before having kids (5 years), how far apart (2 years) we wanted our children and just how many we wanted (2). The only thing we could not decide is gender. So yes, this was a big part of the picture prior to getting married.

ETA: the other thing we could not predict with all our planning was that our oldest would be Autistic. You really need to plan for this... sure love can come if you don't, but best to plan ahead. 

I love both of my sons.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Not a guy, either, but I'm gonna put my opinion in here anyway!

I've been on BOTH sides of the fence, surprisingly!

My first job was as a summer camp counselor (sleep away camp for 1-2 WEEK sessions at a time). Picture 18yo know-nothing high school graduates with NO TRAINING caring for kids with ADHD, broken homes, transplants from war-torn countries (chasing each other with scissors screaming in Arabic 'shyt, shyt, I HATE you, I HATE you!') Yeah! Good times!!

Guess who DIDN'T WANT KIDS for YEARS???? That's right! ME! So I TOTALLY get where you're coming from *Broken at 20*! It took a fair number of years, but once I got away from that job, I stopped hating the idea of having children.

Then I *WANTED* kids. REALLY REALLY wanted them. It was a deal-breaker. But, husband #1 LIED about wanting kids! When he finally 'fessed up, we divorced.

Husband #2 kept putting it off (it was never the right time FINANCIALLY) and putting it off. I finally told him it would NEVER be a convenient time to have kids. Never gonna happen. Who's got an extra $200,000-$300,000 lying around to spend on a child? Answer: NOBODY. You do it anyway, IF you want kids. Finally told H#2: We need to decide we're doing it or we're not. If we're not we need to DECIDE THAT, and move on, BUT the day WILL COME when I will NEVER FORGIVE YOU for it (since it was still a deal-breaker for me). I was almost 41yo when I had my only child. Have NEVER regretted it.

*JaySt: *It *IS* a life-time commitment! Really, the REST of your life! Every single year of it. It's never going to stop. If you can't picture yourself DOING THAT, then PLEASE get a vasectomy.

As Broken at 20 pointed out, some women are NOT above trickery to get what they want. Eighteen years of payments and a LIFETIME of interaction is NOT something you want foisted off on you because it's someone ELSE'S agenda!

If you're merely 'meh' on the idea, DON'T HAVE KIDS! Women who advise you that you'll want them once you have them are IGNORANT. *THAT* is a helluva chance you are taking with 3 people's lives (child's, yours, wife's)! My sister NEVER wanted kids and got her tubes tied at 25yo. It took her FOUR (4) doctors to get it done because they kept saying she'd regret it and change her mind....but she was determined. There ARE women who don't want kids!

Do NOT accomodate your girlfriend/fiancee/wife with a baby. There is NO GUARANTEE you two will even make it in the long-run (sorry, but look around these boards!) You are under the assumption that you'll stay with this woman for ever and are willing to have a child TO ACHIEVE THAT END....sorry, no guarantees!

Is this the woman YOU should marry? I don't know! NOT if you NEVER want kids. If she wants them and you say 'no', she WILL resent you. If she wants them and you 'give in', eventually you will resent HER and THE CHILD (who had no say at all in the matter).

*You can love a LOT of people in your lifetime, but you can't make a marriage work with MOST of them! Love is NOT enough!*

Think about children A LOT before you propose!

Good luck, and kudos to you for seeking information BEFORE making the plunge!


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Great post, SGW! Having children is one of those issues that there is no compromising on. You both must be on the same page with this, or the resulting resentment will kill your love. Let you GF go while she is still young enough to have a family with another man. There are women out there who like you do not want children. Go find one!


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

DO NOT get married with this hanging in the air. You need to settle this before you even think about marriage. This is fundamental in life and it doesn't matter if she's perfect for you in every other way. When two people love each other as you do, the temptation can be strong to fool yourselves into thinking that it will just magically 'work out' or if you leave any room for misunderstanding, she can interpret this as agreement. Do not fool yourself on where you stand with this issue and how serious an issue it is.

Broken is right...many women have a very very strong desire or fundamental need to have children and you might be able to put it off for a while but when she sees her clock ticking in her mid 30s and most of her friends are on child #2, you will both be miserable and it will only get worse unless her need is met. Many will do anything to get pregnant or, as Broken says, will deeply resent you if you keep her from what she wants more than anything in the world.

Of course you can go through this and finally agree to have a child to save the marriage or she 'does what she has to do' and you end up loving your child. I've seen this happen many times. However, it creates big damage to your marriage and this should not be your plan. Others may say that you need to want a child before you should get married to her but I would say that you can safely go ahead with your marriage plans as long as you can see in yourself to agree to have a child 'for her'....and agree when as well.

As for children, it does matter if you have one or more than one. Traveling and going out to dinner and other things are much easier with just one so your lifestyle doesn't need to be turned upside down if you can compromise. I'm not trying to convince you to want children but just giving you things to think about. We were very much into trying new restaurants, city living, traveling, etc. We did a major amount of travel and while we still loved it, the excitement slowly declined trip after trip as the two of us traveled. Seeing new places was still exciting but started to feel less meaningful. Experiencing new things and keeping our minds open seemed like a good reason for living but that meaning started to weaken. Now we travel with our child and we love to see things through her eyes. Now I can't imagine what it would be like for the two of us to have just continued to travel over the last several years. I'm not sure if we would even still be into it as much. 

Depending on where you live, the finances of a child can make a huge dent in your lifestyle. many people say that they would continue to live in a city or do other things but the truth is that often you need to move for decent schools or pay for private ones. You become more of a 'slave' at work. You have restricted options (e.g. relocating for a new job is much harder) and you losing your job (and essential benefits) is much more serious. 

good luck


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## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

Someone mentioned Autism in one child they were not expecting. My sister has Down's Syndrome and contributed a lot to the dysfunction I saw in my family when I was younger. It was like they were constantly watching out for a 5 year old's missteps my entire life. Combine that with the other things I mentioned earlier and it has weakened my attitude on having my own children.

But do I fear having kids or genuinely not want them? I can't tell. I have many reasons to fear them and many reasons to not want them. I have a hard time believing that the majority of people who have kids consider beforehand the funds involved, the devotion, the cramping of their current lifestyle, and the possibility of failure as parents. I mean really, do people think about all of those things? I do, and I think now more than ever raising a kid is difficult because of the environments we live in.

I think some people fool themselves into having kids because they want it or believe they have to do it as human beings, not necessarily because they wholeheartedly analyze, understand, and accept the risks and rewards. My weighing everything makes it a difficult decision when you don't have a child to confirm or deny your suspicions about raising one. It just surprises me that more people aren't apprehensive like me.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

We planned our children, we did not plan our oldest having ASD... it makes no difference, we care for him and love him all the same. Is my child a some genius? Is my child going to make some great human contribution? Is my child ever going to get a great job after getting straight A's in college? I would likely answer no to all of these. 

In fact, it is very likely my oldest son will never be able to live on his own without some assistance. Is it difficult? Is it expensive? Are we (my wife and I) exhausted at times having to raise a special needs child? The answer is Yes to all of these.

And, yet, yet we never regret a moment. But then again we did think this through. We love him though he has a hard time loving us back. I can't expect anyone to understand and I will not try to convince you or anyone else how I feel about him (as I do my other son). I would die for him. I really would. But then again, I wanted him. 

I don't say this to convince you to have a child, but if you are not prepared to take that stance, I honor your decision not to have a child. No need to bring anyone into this world who will not be cared for. If your gf wants children and you don't and this is a deal breaker for her... better to move on now. Children need their parents to reset their priorities... I speak from experience, trust me. If I ever had to live my childhood all over again, I would rather have NOT been born.


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## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

drerio said:


> We planned our children, we did not plan our oldest having ASD... it makes no difference, we care for him and love him all the same. Is my child a some genius? Is my child going to make some great human contribution? Is my child ever going to get a great job after getting straight A's in college? I would likely answer no to all of these.
> 
> In fact, it is very likely my oldest son will never be able to live on his own without some assistance. Is it difficult? Is it expensive? Are we (my wife and I) exhausted at times having to raise a special needs child? The answer is Yes to all of these.
> 
> ...


I certainly understand, and wasn't criticizing you. I love my sister as well and applaud my parents for taking care of her all of these years. She sounds about as needy in terms of care as your son, and I get it.

And it's not that I would resent or not care for kids, it's just that my parents resented me to a degree, and I feel like I am doomed to have the same attitude towards my own. My concerns about being a parent far outweigh me simply believing that "I hate kids and want no part in them." I genuinely don't know if I'm scared I would be a bad parent and therefore resent them, or I would cherish them and be patient and loving, which is something no person in my immediate family has ever gotten close to doing before. Does my dilemma make sense?

I saw an interview a while back for some celebrity...(forgot which one), who said something like "I never had kids because I would suck at parenting. I'm selfish and don't have a lot of patience, and I don't think that would be fair to the child." If I turn out anything like my parents, when it comes to parenting I might make a similar statement and that's what convinces me I don't want children.

Then again maybe it is simple to say I just don't want them, period. I don't know. I am either over analyzing, scared, or thoroughly confused about what to do; either way is a logical reason for coming here and asking advice though.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

If you don't want a child that is one thing and as I said I honor that decision. 

But, children are not delicate crystal. I think I am a horrible parent, but I do the best I can. I understand what you are saying. All I am suggesting is that if you ever decide to have children is do your best and have the attitude that it is no longer about you and you would die for that child. I know it sound hyperbole, but it really is the attitude you need to have. 

And, when raising a child you have to consider really only three things as far as I am concerned, 1) they will be a great spouse to someone someday 2) they will be a co-worker others can depend on and want to work with and 3) they will be the neighbor others enjoy having live on their block. We are always so obsessed with having the smart kid or the beautiful kid, how about the kid who grows up to be a part of society.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

I always knew I would have kids. Our son is 3 now, and it's a lot of work. Tough to find a babysitter that's cheap when we work. Tough to find a babysitter when we want to go out. At times, I feel like my wife loves my son more than me. That's kind of natural though with moms and kids.

I'd have to say, I don't like all the baby work. My wife does most of it. I'll just be glad when he's older and my son and I can chill together and talk.

As for a second, most likely no, simply because of babysitter issues and they are very expensive. My mortgage is quite high and I'd want to send him to private school.

My opinion is to have at least one, or else you'll regret it for the rest of your life. You should experience the fatherhood experiences that life has to offer.


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## Kalerunner (Feb 8, 2013)

I think the world would be a better place if people were honest with themselves when it comes to not wanting children. I am such a lucky man because I found a wife who I love more then anything in the entire world who also does not want children. We both constantly get comments about how we will grow into it and how if we just had a kid we would love it, but we both know ourselves better then anyone. If this is a breaking point then it is a breaking point, you will find someone out there who agrees with your view point.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

> I have a hard time believing that the majority of people who have kids consider beforehand the funds involved, the devotion, the cramping of their current lifestyle, and the possibility of failure as parents. I mean really, do people think about all of those things? I do


Can only speak for myself. I *did* consider EVERYTHING you mentioned and more...alcoholism runs in BOTH sides of my family, I was 40+ so worried about Down's syndrome, my child is 15yo and her father is 64yo, she'll be an orphan at a much younger age than I will...with no siblings to fall back on!

I think parents who are older, parents who are better educated GENERALLY are going to consider those things MORE SO than younger parents or parents with less education. 

I think with everyone I've known, it's been a gut-reaction: they wanted them A LOT, or they didn't want them at all. 

Have you considered talking to a therapist for a FEW sessions (3-4) to try and get some guidance on whether you're disinterested or fearful. A therapist may give you some exercises to do, or questions to ponder, or homework, or resources that could help you decide definitely what is/isn't right for you.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

While there are people who didn't think they wanted children and then were smitten once their children were born, I think there are more people who are not suited to being parents. It is such a difficult job, and you really need to have your whole heart in it. It is a genetic lottery, and it takes every bit of patience and compassion that you can muster. Children can break your heart, and also open your eyes to how complicated humans really are.

We are very lucky to live in an era where we have a choice about whether or not to become parents.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I have always wanted children. I love the idea of having a family and everything that comes with that. Personally I think that if you do not have that desire to have children, then don't do it. I don't understand that lack of desire, but one should never have children out of pressure or feeling they need to for someone else.


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## hope4family (Sep 5, 2012)

My son was unplanned. I wasn't sure if I would make a good father, but wasn't objecting against having children. 

My son (21 months) is amazing thus far. I am truly a blessed man. As with anything in life there are risks. Fatherhood is challenging, fun, has its own reward system, and you can still have a small social life if you play your cards right.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

I really never thought about having children before marriage, but considered it to be the natural conclusion to the union. Children require a lot of time invested in order to see to it they have chances in life you or your spouse may not have had.
Now that marital life is no longer one of my choices , and finding that the two that I financed in life weren't fathered by me, I won't be having any.


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

If you don't want them, don't have them.

If you're ambivalent about them, don't have them.

Children are hard work. They will change your relationship. They will change your life. Parenting is relentless, and you can't quit. You can't walk away and be the person you were before.

Seriously, don't have one in the hopes you'll love it after it's born. That's too big a risk to take. 

I love children. I work with children. I have a fantastic family-of-origin, was parented wonderfully and lovingly, I have a stable and loving marriage. I was as prepared for my baby as it was possible to be - I read everything. 

And it was still the hardest thing I've ever done. For at least 2 years, realistically more like 31/2, after my first was born, if I could have gone back in time and not had children, that's what I would have chosen. 

Things are different now, I adore my life 95% of the time, but I still sometimes yearn for my life before and the future I won't have now. 

If your girlfriend really wants children and you don't, you're not right for each other. That's just the bottom line.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

So long as you can see yourself at the age of 65 with no children or grandchildren, and your current GF out of the picture, I would say do whatever makes you content and happy. But to put a light onto what parenting involves in a lot of ways....it is about hard work, willing to engage yourself in a totally different kind of lifestyle; one that involves managing time better, having patience, understanding, discipline, learning to have simple fun, and giving up the spontaneity that you have now. But yes, very rewarding to those willing to do those things.. If you are not one of them, I do not suggest bringing innocent children into the picture.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

I avoided kids. Had no interest in them. Thought I would never have kids myself. I thought I would focus on having sex every day with a hot young athlete and all of my other interests.

Now I have two kids and I don't care about much of anything else. Never been happier. It's so exciting to hear about the dreams of my little boy the night before, being a race car driver in his red car, how he caught up to the kid in the blue race car and won. Playing catch - how could it possibly be so much fun? 

Even disciplining them - they know how much we love them and it isn't anger in operation. Nothing I have ever done matches the joy of these children. I had my first at 51 and my second at 52.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

JaySt. said:


> Someone mentioned Autism in one child they were not expecting. My sister has Down's Syndrome and contributed a lot to the dysfunction I saw in my family when I was younger. It was like they were constantly watching out for a 5 year old's missteps my entire life. Combine that with the other things I mentioned earlier and it has weakened my attitude on having my own children.
> 
> But do I fear having kids or genuinely not want them? I can't tell. I have many reasons to fear them and many reasons to not want them. I have a hard time believing that the majority of people who have kids consider beforehand the funds involved, the devotion, the cramping of their current lifestyle, and the possibility of failure as parents. I mean really, do people think about all of those things? I do, and I think now more than ever raising a kid is difficult because of the environments we live in.
> 
> I think some people fool themselves into having kids because they want it or believe they have to do it as human beings, not necessarily because they wholeheartedly analyze, understand, and accept the risks and rewards. My weighing everything makes it a difficult decision when you don't have a child to confirm or deny your suspicions about raising one. It just surprises me that more people aren't apprehensive like me.


I think if the decision were only rational, few people would have children. That's why god or evolution gave men and women a sex drive and (mainly woman) a hard wired desire for children. 

You do have to be prepared for anything when you have children. In our relatively small social circle of young families, the number of pretty severe challenges is pretty surprising - one with autism, another with a pretty severe physical disability requiring multiple surgeries before age 5 with inability to walk unaided, another with a severe heart condition requiring hours of complex surgery, and a few other less severe things like behavioral patterns. You shouldn't be afraid of these things but you do need to be prepared for the fact that you might have to deal with some pretty serious stuff.

Even without these challenges, parenting is very hard at times. You also will be able to deal with things that you never thought you'd be able to deal with prior to being tested with parenting challenges.

Often relationships that were once carefree change dramatically with children in the picture with new stresses on the relationship - money problems, increased career stress driven by desire to give children a 'good life', day to day stresses over juggling jobs and childcare, disagreements over sharing responsibilities, arguments over how the children should be raised, in-law problems magnify, etc. Highly compatible sex lives often become imbalanced with kids in the picture, weight gain (often in new fathers too) make couples less attracted to one another. 'Mommy and daddy' roles often take priority over 'husband and wife' roles. Time alone as a couple becomes rare. Feelings of failure because, as parents, you sometimes feel that you aren't doing enough or doing a good job. Greater feelings of envy, jealousy and guilt as you see other parents providing things for their children that you can't. Priorities for desired traits in a partner shift and sometimes the new priorities aren't fulfilled by a partner- e.g. desired traits like sexual compatibility, physical attraction, 'fun' personality, sense of humor, etc are deprioritized in favor of stability and reliability, ability to provide a long term financial future for the family, and good parenting skills. This new definition of the 'right' partner sometimes causes marriages to fail.

Obviously not every relationship experiences all of these things but these are some of the things that I've seen in observation.


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## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

somethingelse said:


> So long as you can see yourself at the age of 65 with no children or grandchildren, and your current GF out of the picture, I would say do whatever makes you content and happy.


I kind of like the idea of being retired and having a story to share about a kid while I'm golfing with the other retired buddies. It's the raising of the child that scares me and seems unattractive.



Wiserforit said:


> I avoided kids. Had no interest in them. Thought I would never have kids myself. ...Nothing I have ever done matches the joy of these children. I had my first at 51 and my second at 52.


I've heard this happens often, where a lot of men enjoy being single until they are older and then want kids. Seems fine but kind of a conundrum, no? The older you get the harder it is to find partners that are also older who haven't had kids yet (and the older you are the harder it is to attract younger partners!), and not to mention the more potential mental/physical problems with the child the older you get when you have it, etc. Seems like a misstep in our evolutionary cycle.



Adex said:


> I always knew I would have kids. Our son is 3 now, and it's a lot of work. Tough to find a babysitter that's cheap when we work. Tough to find a babysitter when we want to go out. At times, I feel like my wife loves my son more than me. That's kind of natural though with moms and kids.
> 
> I'd have to say, I don't like all the baby work. My wife does most of it. I'll just be glad when he's older and my son and I can chill together and talk.
> 
> ...


This seems pretty realistic to me. I think one problem with me posting a question like this too is that no sensible person is going to say they hate their children and regret having them. But someone who doesn't have kids can easily say they regret that decision or say that they don't regret that decision and it doesn't make them appear a bad person. Not that those with kids aren't being honest, it's just that most human beings are going to nurture their own creation and make the most of it even if they once had a mentality just like me.

And also I feel like some people that say not having kids is awesome and they are glad they made that decision are not totally honest with themselves sometimes. I know a lot of people in my circle of friends who just missed the boat on children either by focusing too much on their career during child-bearing age or just having unfortunately bad partners during that time. Some of them claim they love the single life, but I know for a fact that some of them deep down regret not being able to have a family of their own.

So even though not everyone is honest about their own choices, I'm trying to be as open as possible to understand people who've been in my shoes before. Thanks for all of the responses so far, I think some of them have really been helpful.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Screw the Peace Corps and THEIR slogan 'The Toughest Job You'll Ever Love'. HA!

Being a parent is THE TOUGHEST JOB you'll ever love.

It's the toughest job, PERIOD. Without exception. I LOVE IT!

.


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## somethingelse (Jun 20, 2012)

JaySt. said:


> I kind of like the idea of being retired and having a story to share about a kid while I'm golfing with the other retired buddies. It's the raising of the child that scares me and seems unattractive.
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone who has kids is really attracted to the changing diapers and all that kind of stuff (I know I'm not). It's the positives that you have to look at. Like teaching your children what you know, watching them grow up, seeing them smile and laugh when you tickle them, hearing the words "I love you daddy" and knowing that you've allowed a beautiful life to be brought into the world.
> ...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Growing up, I always thought I'd have kids. That's what women do, that's what families are for, that's what I was raised on. My parents had another child when I was a teen, and I saw (and experienced) firsthand what raising a child meant in terms of time and energy and devotion and life change. I love, love, love my sister and always did, but I started to reconsider the whole having kids thing and whether I could really willingly devote myself to raising them.

In college, I took a part-time job for a while as mother's helper. Nice family, nice kids. No matter what, though, there were freaking cheerios and spilled milk everywhere, the little boy ate sticks of butter like ice cream every chance he got, snot everywhere all the time, you had to read the same stupid books over and over and over and over, bath time 3 times a day or so it seemed. OMG, and the laundry! Constant, unrelenting laundry! Sure, there were also sweet hugs and smiley excited little people when I came over, but honestly, the sheer drudgery and time commitment is overwhelming.

I don't regret not having kids. I'd be a terrible parent. I'd resent not having time to myself and having to give up so much sleep, and I'd HATE having to plan play-dates, and make sure they got into the right schools, and got all their shots at the right time, and the paperwork! OMG, the paperwork!!! I have no patience for Disney and Spongebob and would lose my mind if I had to deal with it all the time. I'd hate having to make sure they understood right from wrong and how to be kind, thoughtful people, and then have them be bullied in school. I don't want to fight with them about wanting a cell phone in 5th grade, or the car keys when they just got their license. I don't want to plan all their educational enrichment with piano lessons and swimming lessons and art when all they want to do is throw freaking cheerios around everywhere all the time or pee in the pool or finger paint on the walls. And I'd worry myself to death that something bad would happen to them. I would be a basket case if my kid had autism or Down's or, anything medical. I see kids as giving my life up to them instead of them enhancing my life experience, and I don't want to give my life over to raising human beings in our society.

That's not the kind of life I want to have or ever wanted to have. So, yeah, I've heard lots of people over the years tell me that I'm selfish, or even worse and more cutting, that I'm "unnatural" since I'm a woman who doesn't want children. Maybe I am selfish and unnatural, but I don't really care enough about anyone else's opinion to have kids anyway.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Guy here. I didn't feel an urge to have them the way women do, but I always assumed it would happen, and I was into it when it did happen (three times). Looking back (they are 17, 19, and 23 now), I wouldn't change a thing. Yes, my life changed enormously, but in a good way. And I think it is a precious thing to be completely responsible for another human being. You don't get that with a spouse. And forget the pet analogy that some people use. Not even in the same universe.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

JaySt. said:


> I've heard this happens often, where a lot of men enjoy being single until they are older and then want kids. Seems fine but kind of a conundrum, no? The older you get the harder it is to find partners that are also older who haven't had kids yet (and the older you are the harder it is to attract younger partners!),


I didn't ever think about it. When my wife asked me about it before we were married my response was that I was far more concerned about our relationship. Because having kids in a bad relationship would be a very bad decision whereas having kids in a great relationship would not. 

And I never had a problem attracting the young ones. I think this had a lot to do with attitude. The same aged girls were attracted to me in my 20's, then my 30's, then into my 40's. So I never felt like there was a clock ticking. Women have to worry about that. Not so much men.


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## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

norajane said:


> Growing up, I always thought I'd have kids. That's what women do, that's what families are for, that's what I was raised on. My parents had another child when I was a teen, and I saw (and experienced) firsthand what raising a child meant in terms of time and energy and devotion and life change. I love, love, love my sister and always did, but I started to reconsider the whole having kids thing and whether I could really willingly devote myself to raising them.
> 
> In college, I took a part-time job for a while as mother's helper. Nice family, nice kids. No matter what, though, there were freaking cheerios and spilled milk everywhere, the little boy ate sticks of butter like ice cream every chance he got, snot everywhere all the time, you had to read the same stupid books over and over and over and over, bath time 3 times a day or so it seemed. OMG, and the laundry! Constant, unrelenting laundry! Sure, there were also sweet hugs and smiley excited little people when I came over, but honestly, the sheer drudgery and time commitment is overwhelming.
> 
> ...


Just curious how old you are now?

I've told my girlfriend before that if we were to have children, I would want to hire a good nanny. We can afford it. Truthfully a lot of those annoying things that parents complain about I would much rather pass off to a nanny, and my girlfriend agreed.



Wiserforit said:


> I didn't ever think about it. When my wife asked me about it before we were married my response was that I was far more concerned about our relationship. Because having kids in a bad relationship would be a very bad decision whereas having kids in a great relationship would not.
> 
> And I never had a problem attracting the young ones. I think this had a lot to do with attitude. The same aged girls were attracted to me in my 20's, then my 30's, then into my 40's. So I never felt like there was a clock ticking. Women have to worry about that. Not so much men.


Here is a question for you: obviously you are a happy father now even though it wasn't something you would have wanted at my age (30). Supposing you did get married and had a kid at 30 instead, do you feel like you would now feel like you missed out in life (on what you did instead of have a family from age 30 until now)?


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## Lyris (Mar 29, 2012)

Are you sure you can afford a nanny? 10/12 hours a day? Where I live, good nannies who will stay for longer than a few months cost a minimum of 25/30 dollars an hour. What about at night? That's when it's bad, daytime is usually fine.

Also, kids get attached to their parents. It's not as easy as 'get a nanny'. A six month old may not be able to complain, but leaving a screaming three year old with someone else is traumatic, unless you're not actually bonded to your kid.

Having a baby so you can tell stories about it to friends is a pretty unrealistic reason to change your whole life forever.


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## JaySt. (May 15, 2012)

Lyris said:


> Are you sure you can afford a nanny? 10/12 hours a day? Where I live, good nannies who will stay for longer than a few months cost a minimum of 25/30 dollars an hour. What about at night? That's when it's bad, daytime is usually fine.
> 
> Also, kids get attached to their parents. It's not as easy as 'get a nanny'. A six month old may not be able to complain, but leaving a screaming three year old with someone else is traumatic, unless you're not actually bonded to your kid.
> 
> Having a baby so you can tell stories about it to friends is a pretty unrealistic reason to change your whole life forever.


I didn't mean a nanny full-time, but where I live the cost of a nanny is only about 30% more than the cost of daycare. 

And you read the last part out of context. Someone asked how I would feel at 65 years old and I simply said I'd like to have stories about a child. That certainly shouldn't be anyone's only motivation to have one.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

JaySt. said:


> Just curious how old you are now?


I'm 45.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

Wiserforit said:


> I
> 
> Even disciplining them - they know how much we love them and it isn't anger in operation. Nothing I have ever done matches the joy of these children. I had my first at 51 and my second at 52.


Having kids in your 50's? Wow. I just don't understand that. I think about the idea of someone having kids at 40, by the time they graduate and move out you are around 60 and that the likelyhood of grandchildren would not be until around 65 or so at that point. By the time the kids are old enough to do a lot of things with, you are looking at being 70. that time table just seems sad to me.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I NEVER wanted to get married much less have kids. I wanted a career and I wanted to rule the world....and then I met and fell in love with my husband. LOL

Still didn't want kids though and so I focused on my career for 20 years. At some point my perspective changed and I thought "is this it?" I was bored, lonely with way too much time on my hands. Decided a family was just what I needed. Yes it's funny. 

Had my first when I was 34. Was the most surreal experience of my life. Took me NINE weeks to bond with him. Yeah I wasn't a 'natural mother'. I just looked at him and thought now what do I do? But then something magical happened I fell in love with this little red headed baby boy and now 12 years later he still melts my heart.

So parenting didn't come easily to me but I adore my kids. Went on to have 2 more kids. I so didn't see my life turning out this way. LOL

BTW I don't like the baby stage. I do better when they are potty trained, can carry on a conversation and can feed themselves.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> BTW I don't like the baby stage. I do better when they are potty trained, can carry on a conversation and can feed themselves.


My daughter is a few months old to be honest I can't wait until she's a bit older, it's a bit boring right now lol.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Married at 19 to a woman with an 18 MO child. We soon had another. It was just the thing to do. I was never what you would call a real hands on dad, but took vacations, camping trips, week end things...

Oddly enough, my step son swears he had the most awesome childhood, and best parents (and dad) any kid ever had...He said he had an absolutely perfect childhood...

I don't think kids need the smothering attention lots of modern parents seem to think is essential....As I grew older, I realised all children are a joy, they just need to be raised with boundaries and limitations....

Yes, I was a spanking parent. My motto was "If you spank a child, and when you are finished the child is mad at you, you didn't do it right".....A correct spanking induces amnesia in the client to all things except the discomfort in their backside....I spanked my stepson 2 or 3 times, and my son 3-4 times....Always for a major infraction, and always to teach a life lesson....

My sons as adults were known as decent, honorable men....They worked hard, and treated women with respect.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

TiggyBlue said:


> My daughter is a few months old to be honest I can't wait until she's a bit older, it's a bit boring right now lol.


I enjoyed getting on the floor with them and observing. Pretty amazing to think of all of the development going on simultaneously inside them. But the constant maintenance will wear you out. They are more interactive when older. 

I don't know if it's a dad thing to get on the floor and play. My wife was more interested in keeping them occupied so she could do something else and I preferred to get down there and play with them face to face. And no, she didn't do the chores while I played. We had a 50-50 chore split.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Don't get married until this question is totally answered for you. You can be apprehensive about life with children and be just fine, but if you're not sure you even want them, don't have them... don't even get married.

I have always felt that I never wanted to have kids. When I married, we both agreed we didn't want kids. 7 years later she changed her mind. I gave her what she wanted, and we had two kids. I should have stuck to my guns. While the kids themselves weren't the *cause* of our divorce - having kids was the beginning of the end of what to that point, I thought was a perfect marriage. From that point forward, we grew further and further apart. At times, I felt like I was just this guy who lives there and pays the bills. Or maybe I could say it feels like being an adopted child behind two biological children. Always knowing you're not as important... and having it proven over and over again. My connection to my wife plummeted.

In retrospect, I'd have had a vasectomy at the earliest opportunity. I think my children are beautiful, and I love them, but I just didn't want to have kids. If I had a vasectomy, there would never have been a discussion about having them... if she changed her mind, she would have had to choose me or kids. Worst case, it might have been painful for her to leave me, but it would have saved me 6 years of emotional emptiness.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Unwise to get married to someone who wants kids if you are undecided about kids.

I never wanted children.I ended up having one and I am thankful I can't have more.I love him,of course,but I'm not the mommy type like many women seem to be.
SO has no children and seems content to be childfree for life.It's an excellent match for me

Women have also been known to say they don't want babies then change their mind a few years later.I'd just be really careful with this situation and don't jump into anything.She may say she's cool with not having kids now but in the back of her mind she might be thinking you'll change your mind and definitely want them someday.


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## pepper7 (Apr 2, 2013)

JaySt. said:


> I kind of like the idea of being retired and having a story to share about a kid while I'm golfing with the other retired buddies. It's the raising of the child that scares me and seems unattractive.
> 
> This seems pretty realistic to me. I think one problem with me posting a question like this too is that no sensible person is going to say they hate their children and regret having them. But someone who doesn't have kids can easily say they regret that decision or say that they don't regret that decision and it doesn't make them appear a bad person. Not that those with kids aren't being honest, it's just that most human beings are going to nurture their own creation and make the most of it even if they once had a mentality just like me.
> 
> ...


I agree with that. I have a few close friends that are in their late fourties and most days are happy to be child free. But in drunken or deeply reflective moments will disclose regrets. I think it's easy to wonder "What if" and I guess we all have to decide what side of the "What if" we are willing to be on..... I don't know if you saw my post but I made a slightly similar post at the same time you did. My husband and I have been CF but as I hit my mid thirties, my hard "NO" answer to wanting kids is getting chipped at by feelings and ideas that are utterly alien to me. Nature is an evil little thing! 

I've always been very career focused, I'm very driven and we decided to spend our money on ourselves rather than a third person. BUT as I look around I wonder if I really want my life to end with me saying "I had an excellent career." Do I want my tombstone to say "Awesome employee and world traveler" or "Beloved Wife & Mother, not so well traveled . I think part of it is deciding what you want your memories to be of, and being willing to put in the work to make them come true. I'm utterly confused myself so I'm sure this is no help.....I wish you luck. I hope to have an update by the end of the year for myself....


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