# Where are we at right now?



## Fiveholer (Jul 1, 2010)

Hi everyone, been reading for about a week and this is my first post, I apologize if I get vague or drag on, feel free to ask LOTS of questions as there is SO much and I will probably leave things out. In short, my wife is having an EA, possibly PA.

Let me start by saying, I am 33, she is 23, this is both or ours first marriage and we are each other's first loves. This REALLY makes it hard on me! We have been married since Sept. of 2007, we dated for 7 months prior to getting married. We were very much in love and I still am. She says that things started going downhill in the last year. I admit I have plenty of faults. Some of them being unmotivated a lot, I spent too much time on the computer, relied on parent's support and opinions on a lot of things. She says this is a HUGE part of it. That I can't think for myself. She wanted kids right off and I do too. She says that I don't want them, but I REALLY do. She changes jobs about every 6 months to a year. Always something that makes her hate the job and she quits without having another lined up for a month or so which puts a MAJOR strain on finances. This is why I didn't want kids right away until she settles into something that she see herself at for a length of time. Back to kids, she was diagnosed with endometriosis and had surgery for it a year or so ago. We were told that she would most likely not be able to have children naturally and that she would have to take shots for a period of time, and then we had to try naturally. Well, I don't know how we could have afforded the shots and she pretty much ruled it out after she heard the side effects of the shots themselves. Well, she has admitted the kicker as for when "she was done with me" was when for the 2nd time we talked about getting myself tested to make sure the problem wasn't on my end. I would keep putting it off and never have it done. I admit I was selfish thinking about money and whether BOTH of us were ready for children. Fast forward to December, just after Christmas, her parents of 27 years split. Her mom had taken a job which she had not had in a long time and she changed alot. She was always a stay at home mom for 5 kids. She got involved with a younger guy at work and decided she was not happy in her marriage and left. Now, this had a lot of affect on my wife. Including me waking up in the middle of the night to her crying and when I ask her why the response was "I miss my mom" The family had pretty much disowned her when she left. The odd thing is that my wife was physically abuse pretty badly by her mom when she was young and had to hide it from her dad.

Let's jump to the last week of this April. My wife had taken a bank job in January and was working 9-7 most days while I work 445am-315p. Well, by the time she would get home at almost 8 I would be almost asleep, we would have dinner and I would pretty much crash by 10. She was wound up after work and I was dead tired. So come the end of April, you could tell we were drifting apart for some reason and she would stay a little later at work sometimes which I hated because I wanted to see her. We had always had an argument here and there over things but nothing too major, normal stuff, money, etc. But, in April, she started staying up later than I and I hated it because we ALWAYS went to bed together and she explained it was because she couldn't come home and go to bed because she was too wound up. I started getting irritated and going to bed alone while she would chat with lots of old friends on Facebook. So after a few nights of her sleeping on the couch, she said we need to take a break and she was going to go stay at a co-workers. I was devastaed when she left. She called me in the middle of the night that night and said she was coming home. I was so relieved, she called me crying at 5 in the morning and said she was coming back. I would come to find out 2 days after this that it was to go talk to her friend about this other guy that was a customer at the bank.

So, a day later at work, I am talking to a co-worker who was going through marital problems about what was going on. He said "I know you don't want to hear this, but check your phone records" I didn't want to believe it but I checked shortly after and saw a week's worth or phone calls to a number I didn't know. Some short calls, some multi-hour. I text her and told her I was checking our bill online and was curious as to what this one number was. Shortly after, she called me and said "Come home now." I had to pull a few strings and say I had an emergency and had to leave work. I knew what it was, I don't know how I drove home that day! I was so tempted to call that number that will be etched in my memory forever, but I didn't call it. I got home, and my wife was on the porch. All I could do is look at her and walk in. She told me what had happened. My first question was "Did you have sex with him?" She said no, to which I still believe at this point. The only admitted contact is kissing twice, not making out, just a hug and kiss. Once the first week and about 4 weeks ago. Anyway, I come to find out the guy is 44 freakin' years old! My wife is 23! He has two boys almost her age and is currently involved in a divorce of his own. His wife is apparently a serial cheater. She said he is like hanging out with her own Dad and brothers. They can joke, just hang out, etc. Fish, toss a baseball. Anyway, she left the house and went to stay with her mom in her apartment. Her dad told her to stay with him, she wanted to stay with her mom, which, I don't know why, she abused her while she was young.

She decided to come home for a few days after a couple weeks apart, in which time I was an absolute wreck and constantly called/text her. When she came home for a few days, while she was in the shower I checked her purse because I had stopped seeing the phone numbers on our bill. Well, in her purse, I found a secret phone, looking just like the one she has on our plan. I turned it on and started looking through texts and saw "I love you" I was a wreck. She got out of the shower and knew something was wrong and asked me what was wrong. I said I felt sick, just sick. We were getting ready to go to church at this point. I said, I found your secret phone. She was livid I searched her purse. We fight, I text her dad, who has been involved in a lot of this as I would talk to him for advice since he was going through the same thing. He showed up at the house, told her to get her things and sat us both down. Told her to get her things and come stay with him. Took me outside, told me to go file divorce papers and put the decision in her hands. It's NOT what I want, I want to rebuild things! He said do it anyway, and let her face that if its really what she wants. They leave and I file papers two days later.

I am a wreck through the next couple days and stay at my parents as I can't stand to be in the house alone. While at my parents, I wake up and write a 4 page later to her about the good times we had and I drive to her dad's an put it in her car. I text her later and ask if she got her letter. She calls me and I can tell she had been crying. We talk about the letter and I ask her what part made her cry. She said it was when I talked about buying our first house and getting our first puppy. She tells me to just hold onto the divorce papers she doesn't want to sign them yet. She "will know more in a couple days". I am thinking what the hell is that? Well, I know that it has to do with this older guy and his impending divorce. Why I continue to wait is beyond me, the pain is unbearable sometimes. So, probably a week later, she calls me at work and says she is coming home. I was ecstatic. She calls me back to tell me its only for a week, her dad had told her to give me 3 months to try to show her I am willing to make changes which I do need to make. She says she'll come back for a week and see where we go from there.

She comes home, and we actually slept in the same bed, she had slept in a seperate room the other time when she came home for 3 days. Turns out that is when she had the phone. This time, she called me and told me she was taking his phone back to him and giving this a try. I accepted that and she told me to search her car, purse, everything when she got home. I trusted her. We did have a few arguments that week as I could not drop the other guy. I wanted to know things which only made her mad. It was just instinct. She threatened she was ready to sign the papers but would cool down. So she stuck to her week and said she was going to go stay at her mom's and come back Monday. She left a bunch of her clothes here. So she leaves and we left on really good terms. We had talked about things we needed to changed, which included a joint facebook account so there was no hiding things from each other, etc. We hugged, she left, and I was happy about her coming back Monday. 2o minutes after she leaves, she calls me to tell me, that if I look at the call log I will see a phone call to the OM that she wanted me to know that she called him to tell him not to call or text her. What I didn't like was that she was headed over to the town where she met him and continued to meet him. It sent alarms off all over inside of me. Was that call to tell me why she called him a smoke screen. My thought, she is going to go get his phone back so she can do as she wants while she is gone. So, later on, I take a drive by her dad's to see if she might be there, nope, I text her and ask her if she is at her mom's which leads to WWIII. I am miserable the rest of the night. Also, I know the numbers of the OM new phone and the number of the line of the phone she has for him. Later that night, I can't help myself and call the number of her line that he has for her. It goes straight to voicemail which tells me that it is probably off. I feel better, go to bed after much tossing and turning. I wake up 3 in the morning, block my number and call the line again. It RINGS! I am furious, its on and my number is blocked on it. So I fire off a few texts to the number calling her a liar, that she has the phone again, etc. No replies. I try it once more in the morning from a number that won't be recognized and maybe someone will answer. Nothing, just rings until voicemail. I get a text shortly after from my wife "What the hell do you think you are doing OM just text me and told me you blew up his phone all night! I check our logs and he DID text her line on our account. She was furious with me. Later in the day, I risk it and believe that she never did get the phone back. I text HIM and apologize that I did it, please accept, I was convince my wife had the phone back, etc" He replies "No problem" I can't let it go. I text back and say let me call this number, are you going to answer"?
He calls me two minutes later, I am shocked. We talked for about 2 minutes which was bizzare, here, I am talking to the guy who has been going out with my wife. He explains he is giving the phone to his mother who is sick and he would appreciate it if I wouldn't bother it anymore. I say I won't, I was convinced she had it back and this whole thing has made me do crazy things I thought I would never do. He says he understands and has gone through the same thing. He sounded laid back just as my wife had described him as. (I had asked her what it was about him she was attracted to) He then says "I'm done with it anyway" Which surprises me, and I ask him something like "When you say you are done, do you mean with XXXXX?" He says "yep" I say don't just tell me a line of BS, I ask if he really means it. He said "yes, its not worth it anymore". Now, why should I believe this but with the hope I still hold for us, its good enough for me to hear at the time. He DID text my wife shortly after and told her he talked to me I guess. It was on our log, she then texts me "Happy now, leave me the hell alone!" I talk to her a short while later and she tells me how "she felt like an idiot for that now" Why, I don't know. Whatever. So that was this past Saturday. Since we have been texting more regularly and I have taken a shift at work for a couple weeks where I get home about midnight. We will text each other good night. The problem for me now is of course trust. Was the not having the phone and her possibly being next to him when I talked to him and huge hoax on me? She still has the phone??? Her phone is eerily silent save for the odd text/phone call from her mom. She hadn't talked to her dad in about a week. Before when she had the phone for him, she was alot more active texting with her mom as late as 2 in the morning. It's nothing like that anymore, mostly texts between her and I and the odd phone call.

I woke up yesterday morning and did something she asked me NOT to do. I text her mom and said something along the lines of "I still love you as a mother in law and I love XXXXX with all my heart. I am just looking for some kind of truth. I find it hard to believe XXXX sits in your apartment all day long, etc. Is she still talking to/seeing OM? She told me she wasn't going to. Please keep this between us" I sent them, then my wife texts me a short while later and says "hey you" I say "hey" she says "whats up?" I say I am laying in bed, some idle chit chat, then she hits me "Why did you text my mom?!" I think at this point that she only text me to lead me into that. Well, I check logs later on and this was not the case. She text me with that before her mom had told her I text her. Which, her mom, I can no longer trust it seems. Anyway, she calls me mad as hell. I try to difuse the situation somewhat and it seems to work. I admit I was wrong, should have never done that, etc. We talk for 20 minutes or so. Then text more civil later on. She keeps asking me about the 4th this weekend and when I talk about re-arranging work she responds with "I am not sure yet if we will do anything" It's driving me nuts. Today, she calls me out of the blue and we just talk about randomness and I always seem to get pushy with "what are you doing, where are you?" I know, wrong thing to do, but I can't help it. It comes out and I try to smooth things out and do somewhat. So then we talk about a statement from her separate checking account which she pulled out 100 bucks overdrawing it when she told me she only overdrew it to fill up her car. She is FURIOUS that I looked at it. Anyway, she told me she was driving to Walmart of all places to walk around because she is bored. (She has been unemployed since the end of May) She has no money. She has left our joint account alone. So she sends me a picture text of her in Walmart to prove she is there, and she tells me why she got the 100 out and she told them to give her a 100 bill so she would be reluctant to break it. She took a pic of it and sent it to me to show she hasn't spent it. I see her gas gauge in the photo and see she still has 3/4 tank and the last time I know she filled up was last Friday. I am trying to believe her in all this but its hard. She get's mad when I start to challenge her on it. Is it because she is trying to be truthful but I am still accusing? I am trying to give her some space and let his charade with the older guy fizzle out. I want nothing more to save this marriage and eventually have a family with her. In spite of what she has done to me. She still talks about working things out but I just find it hard to believe anything when she is not next to me! Am I still being played or is she still playing both sides?

I am sure I left a ton out so ask lots of questions if needed! I am sure I left tons out! I never thought I would experience this pain in my life and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!

Thanks for listening!


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## strawberry (Jun 21, 2010)

your story is heartbreaking. i do not have any advice but i am positive some of the more experience members will talk to you soon. tc


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## Fiveholer (Jul 1, 2010)

I should add. These last two blowups on the phone with the texts to her mom resulted in her saying "Just when things were starting to get civil, you f'd up again!" and yesterday with the bank overdraft "You just keep f'ing up!" Yesterday, after that phone call, we text a couple times with me apologizing that I was being sneaky that I knew she overdrafted as much as she did and I was waiting to see if she would tell me, etc. She then called me back and again, said she couldn't believe I did that. I explained that it was stupid and that stuff like that will happen from time to time while I am trying to get trust back into her and to try to ignore it sometime. After that call, she text me and said: "I like to get off the phone civily." That took me by surprise. Is she really trying? Also, she did mention "if we work" yesterday, meaning to me, she is wanting to give me a chance to lay off a bit which has been really hard to do of course. Again, she may just be wanting to lay off so she can do as she pleases with OM. Interesting thing of note. Last night as I was leaving work at 1130p. Which she knows my schedule now as it has changed. I had not text her since just before 6pm. So my plan was to go home, and text her goodnight when I got home. Well, on the walk to my car, she texts me with:

"hey, still at work?'

"Getting to my car"

"Okay"

"Whats up?"

"Haha, nothing is up, I kinda miss you"

"Well, you know I miss you too. Miss telling you goodnight in person"

She calls me a couple minutes later and says "Well, are you going to tell me?" Haha, it was non-confrontational and we talked for a few minutes, about how nice it was outside, and how she broke the 100 bucks and bought pizza for her mom and BF since its the least she could do for staying there. Anyway, we said our goodbyes and she told me to have a good day off today. She knows I am off the next 3 days and then I am working early on the 4th in case she decides she want to do something with me. The odd thing is that the other morning in the middle of her being mad at me when I text her mom she wanted me to look up this free summer concert thing for Thursday night that goes on near our house. I am wondering today if I don't contact her if eventually she will ask if I want to go to that tonight, which has fireworks afterwards. I am hoping for that but can't ask because then she sees me as pushy trying to get her to do stuff on my terms. She likes control, my friend and I have discussed this. Anyway, leaving for a session with my MC in a bit, gonna has this all out, or try to in an hour since SO much has happened since I have been 2 1/2 weeks ago!

What does everyone think she is doing? Has she really cut contact and doesn't have his old phone and is trying and getting angry because my trust didn't come back overnight or is she still yanking me around with the OM?

Thanks


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I am sure I left a ton out so ask lots of questions if needed! I am sure I left tons out! I never thought I would experience this pain in my life and wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!


Sure is a lot there - I wouldn't worry about 'leaving tons out'!



> What does everyone think she is doing? Has she really cut contact and doesn't have his old phone and is trying and getting angry because my trust didn't come back overnight or is she still yanking me around with the OM?


It is very possible that she is still 'yanking' you around. However, this is not something to dwell on right now. There are deliberate steps you can take to get your marriage back on track and I'd suggest that you sort of stick to them...

First, keep in mind that an affair is like a drug - you get a 'high' from it that is quite addicting. The 'high' makes you do things you normally would not do, say things you normally wouldn't. You tend to exaggerate, minimize, overgeneralize, magnify and otherwise distort reality in order to justify a behavior that you know is wrong. You attempt to make the wrong behavior become acceptable and the best possible solution to the problem.

And that's a tip: affairs normally don't happen in a vacuum (I have _yet_ to see one that has, but I won't use an absolute in this instance.) Affairs normally happen when there are troubles in the relationship to which the affair seems to offer a solution. Of course, there are OTHER solutions, but this is the one that gets chosen. It is wrong, and if you get caught, you feel guilty, angry for having your 'high' threatened, sad that its happened to you - _all kinds of negative emotional responses_.

So -maybe your wife is continuing the affair, maybe not. I would NOT take the Other Man's word as any form of truth, period. In fact, the ONLY communication I ever advise that someone carry on with the Other Person is simply to let them know that you love your spouse and are prepared to work on your marriage - and that you request they back off. _Nothing else._ You will never know if they tell you the truth anyway - it will all be left up to you to imagine what they said was true - or false!

Instead, step back. Slow down. Learn some new methods of communicating, and begin a very thorough analysis of your marriage history. Look back for trouble areas - things that you may consistently fight about, things that bother you (but you never talked about), things that made you sad, things that hurt either of you. 

Take some relationship questionnaires - download and print out copies: if your marriage is to recover and become a better refuge for the two of you, these things will give you the tools you need to communicate exactly what you need to fix the broken parts.

There are three distinct conditions for working on a marriage after an affair - things that are reasonable and helpful:

1) Your wife ends ALL contact with the Other Man (here's an article telling why)

2) Your wife gives you open access to her phone records, email accounts, IM and social network passwords, and access to her computer. 

If she refuses, this is a very strong sign that some form of infidelity is going on. By cheating, she lost the privilege (at least for a while) to keep secrets from you. In our marriage, we even tell each other that we are secretly planning something as a gift. Until trust is rebuilt - AND the marriage has been improved to where it is virtually affair-proof, openness and transparency is essential for both of you. In fact - openness and transparency should be components of your marriage, period.

3) She commits to working specifically on the marriage. Get the book 'His Needs, Her Needs' - and give her a copy. Lots of good stuff there...

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Now playing: Elvis Presley - Crawfish
via FoxyTunes


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## Fiveholer (Jul 1, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. I should add, a friend who has a BPD mother is %110 sure that my wife is BPD. My therapist thinks the same. This morning, she contacted me via text, "Good morning you!" Within minutes, she was calling me to tell me she has a job interview tomorrow, she was happy, we ended the call. We text back and forth some more joking around ending with her asking what I was doing tonight. Well, I had gone to my counselor this morning and was driving home while my wife calls me. She can tell I was driving and asked where I was and told her I was driving home from XXXX's office. That was that, why are you still going to see her, she is an idiot, you need to man up, etc. I tell her it was just to check in and see where I was. That I heard things from her that this can still work, she fires back off, it's NOT going to work, what don't you get?! I say what are the signs I am getting then? "I miss you, what are you doing tonight?" Then she asks if my parents had called me about the 4th and I said that I had been waiting on her that she keeps mentioning it. She says she is going to her dads as she has been invited to there and that is about it. The kicker now, is that the clothes she needs for her interview are her with me in the house. I just don't know what to do. I feel so alone and lost.

Thanks.


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

Fiveholer, Pete akways has great advice. Follow it. I would also make sure I was not providing any means to help her suppor ther affair. No money, no gas, etc. Those are things that are there for her should she decide to return home and work on the marriage. 

As for the "Sneaky" aspect, Pete covered that a bit but it is a good idea to reinterate to her that absolute transparancy is a must for the marriage to start recovery. As has been said before, there are no secrets in marriage. If she is livid over "invasions of privacy" she has proven she has hidden things in the past and your natural reaction SHOULD be mistrust. Only with abosulte transparency can she ever hope to regain your trust.

Q~


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