# Counseling and Reconciliation Success



## anx

Edit 2: My wife and I are back together. I will post more details after letting things settle a little. Things are good. Its been a wild and exhausting 2 years. I would do it all over again. 

Edit: -----------------------------------------------
I am separated a second time, so unfortunately I cannot yet count my story as a success. The love I have for my wife has never wavered. She moved out may 15, 2011 for six months. 
She told me in mc that she the marriage was in a good place and me personally that she loved me and wanted to be married to me. A week later she quit her traumatic job. The week after she went down to her parents and told me she cringes at my touch, doesn't know if she loves me like a wife, and isn't attracted to me now. 
I've been taking it in strides. We switched mc to a Christian counselor, and I again am focused on my faith. Things have been good, but not great. 
Hopefully I'll be able to update again that we are happily married.
-------------------------------------------------------

Hello all!
I'm excited that I am posting here and not in the divorce section of the site. I hope this helps other people.

I posted in the going through divorce or separation section of this site "I love my wife and need help saving our marriage"

We have been married three and a half years and dating for 2 years before that.

Basically, our communication was terrible. She didn’t tell me how she was feeling in our relationship (even when I would beg to know), she would shut down and stop talking if we started argueing/talking, she would snap and me about things and I would never find out what she was originally mad at or how to fix it. I would get anxious when we would argue and try to press her for more information / a solution (which greatly contributed to her shutting down), I would try to discuss way to many things way too often, and I always wanted to fix everything at the end of a discussion. 

Also, after looking at language of love stuff, we were both really bad at making the other person feel loved. She needed me to do acts of service and be vocal about when she does something I appreciated. I was terrible at both. I needed from her quality time and physical contact, and she wasn’t comfortable with doing either of those when we were fighting so much. We also have very different communication family backgrounds (her family is quite and mine never stops talking) and very different sex drives (I’m basically interested in sex all the time and she is comfortable with 2-3 times a week).

In counseling I found out that she had been unhappy in our relationship for almost our entire marriage and had issues before then too. She didn’t feel listened to, respected, or supported. This was the first time I had heard this and it hit me VERY hard. I tried to get her to understand that I really never knew how she was feeling, and I’m not able to fix anything or treat her better if I don’t know what I was doing wrong.

My wife and I did 10 months of counseling. She was engaged in the relationship and counseling for the first several month, but started to burn out. It took me awhile to see the issues, my part in it all, and what to do about it. Things got really bad about 5 months into counseling after she got a new job, the car broke, and it was my birthday and our anniversary very close together. She wasn't able to reengage in the relationship. 

I put an INSANE amount of work into the marriage at that point. I was making food, keeping the house clean, reading books (6-10), trying to watch how we talk to eachother, etc. I said I was sorry so many times. I said I 100% totally messed up and begged her to forgive me. I said she also needed to put as much as she can into communicating with me and fixing our issues.

She said she needed to move out. Initially, she didn't know what was going to come of it or if she would come back. she said she needed out of the constant stress. As she was moving out, she said that she wanted to try to work on the marriage but needed to move out to reset her stress and be able to work on the marriage. This was the hardest thing I've ever gone though. I cried so many times. 

When she is stressed she needs space and time to think about it. She moved out for 2 months. We went on great dates and had sex on the weekends. It was unbelievably hard for me. She was much happier when we would see eachother. She had the space and time she needed. It was nice for both of us to be able to mentally prepare for a date night and not have to come into it with conflict from the week. I was basically trying to surviving and was VERY depressed the last few weeks. I emotionally shut down one of our dates and one of the times I called her it ended really badly. I was in a really bad emotional place and was having a hard time keeping it together.

What helped me a lot during this was a list that someone else had posted on the site about what to do in a separation.I'm not 100% sure where it came from

[Copyrighted content removed by request of copyright holder http://www.divorcebusting.com/]

She moved back in about 3 weeks ago, and has been saying that she loves me and is happy being married to me. We aren’t completely in the clear, but I hope we are mostly there

It finally feels like we are both on the same side and fighting together for our marriage. I feel like the biggest shift is that we are both focusing on making sure the other person is happy while also communicating our own wants and needs.

I learned that sometime I need to just shut up and not push and issue or only say something like "I'm feeling stressed about something and I'm not sure how to fix it". I've learned to watch my anxiety during arguments. She likes to discuss stuff MUCH slower than me and usually needs a few hour break to process and reconnect later.

As far as I know, she accepted that I will never be perfect and that we need to discuss things in a way that leads to doing things better next time. She is willing to communicate with me when I mess up and how to do it better. She realized how much she hurt me when she would promise things to make discussions stop and then not following through on those things.

We are both trying to get used to this. I’m still having a hard time coping and dealing with coming off of borderline depression the last several weeks she was moved out. I’ve struggled and had counseling for anxiety and depression before in my life. Her current job is extremely stressful, and we have to be very careful on weekdays to not turn that stress into relationship stress. We are both trying very hard to communicate and trust the other person. Its hard with everything being so new, but I really hope this is a new era for our relationship.

Thank you all for helping me with my story and letting me read try to help you in your stories. Many of the things on this site helped me put my own relationship in perspective. 

The last 10 month of my life have been the hardest I've ever been through. They have challenged everything about me and reshaped my view of the world.


----------



## sepAgain

Thank you for posting that list or separation advice. It was exactly what I needed to read at exactly the right time.


----------



## LonelyNLost

Thank you for sharing this. Sounds a lot like our situation, except I'm you and my husband is her, even down to the love languages! We got to a point where things were really good, we were both working on it, speaking each other's love languages (after 10 years of marriage) and then it all fell apart after he went out of town for a week. I'm always trying to fix things, and I do need to back off. I'm trying. I realize my part in this, just like you said. It's been a week of no fighting, but he says he feels like he's lost himself. He wants to go away and stay in a cabin by himself and reconnect with nature, fishing, etc. He needs to clear his mind and find himself. Kind of scares me, but I need to be prepared for whatever may come. He came super close a couple weeks ago to leaving to go stay with his parents for a bit, but I lost it, so he stayed (mostly because he just fell asleep exhausted from it all). I know he loves me and cares about me, but all this tension and constant turmoil is tearing him down. I can only hope that this doesn't lead to separation, which I fear it might. And if it does, that we find our way back to each other like you and your wife have. Thanks so much for sharing and I wish you luck.


----------



## anx

Marriage counseling was really the only way we were able to get past this. We both love eachother and I think we are meant to be together, but neither of us would have been able to move past all of this without it. Also, neither of us would have been able to see what they need to change and what they need from the other person and why. We also wouldn't have been able to identify things that will always be issues. I will always need to keep the house FAR cleaner than I ever would myself. She has also been willing to be physical with me when she otherwise isn't interested. She will join me in the shower for a bit, make out with me, or give me part or all of a hand job.

From what I know of my wife, it probably wasn't possible for her to reconnect without time to herself. 

When we would spend time together on the weekends while separated, it was great. We would both go in without a week of stress towards the other person. 

Its also a lot easier for both people to see what their issues are and what issues they have with the other person. We talked several times about how we need to interact to ensure that some small issue gets discussed without anyone feeling bad and then we reconnect and forget about it. 

We are also both vocal when we want 20 minutes after work to snuggle and feel connected. We both are trying hard to watch our own emotions. She has been very stressed and I get anxious. We are also EXTREMELY careful right now when talking about anything that we know the other person might be sensitive about. Both of us will say that "I'm not feeling listened to" and the other person listens, repeats, and empathizes with the other person. It was hard to do and awkward at first, but it really makes both of us feel like the other person is on our side and that we need to come to an agreement together or decide that it will never be perfect and find out how to work around it.

While separated, I really felt like I was falling apart mentally at the end, but would do it again for the gains we make in the relationship. We just needed to break the cycle of stress and arguing about stupid things because we were stressed.


----------



## metsn11

anx said:


> Hello all!
> I'm excited that I am posting here and not in the divorce section of the site. I hope this helps other people.
> 
> I posted in the going through divorce or separation section of this site "I love my wife and need help saving our marriage"
> 
> We have been married three and a half years and dating for 2 years before that.
> 
> Basically, our communication was terrible. She didn’t tell me how she was feeling in our relationship (even when I would beg to know), she would shut down and stop talking if we started argueing/talking, she would snap and me about things and I would never find out what she was originally mad at or how to fix it. I would get anxious when we would argue and try to press her for more information / a solution (which greatly contributed to her shutting down), I would try to discuss way to many things way too often, and I always wanted to fix everything at the end of a discussion.
> 
> Also, after looking at language of love stuff, we were both really bad at making the other person feel loved. She needed me to do acts of service and be vocal about when she does something I appreciated. I was terrible at both. I needed from her quality time and physical contact, and she wasn’t comfortable with doing either of those when we were fighting so much. We also have very different communication family backgrounds (her family is quite and mine never stops talking) and very different sex drives (I’m basically interested in sex all the time and she is comfortable with 2-3 times a week).
> 
> In counseling I found out that she had been unhappy in our relationship for almost our entire marriage and had issues before then too. She didn’t feel listened to, respected, or supported. This was the first time I had heard this and it hit me VERY hard. I tried to get her to understand that I really never knew how she was feeling, and I’m not able to fix anything or treat her better if I don’t know what I was doing wrong.
> 
> My wife and I did 10 months of counseling. She was engaged in the relationship and counseling for the first several month, but started to burn out. It took me awhile to see the issues, my part in it all, and what to do about it. Things got really bad about 5 months into counseling after she got a new job, the car broke, and it was my birthday and our anniversary very close together. She wasn't able to reengage in the relationship.
> 
> I put an INSANE amount of work into the marriage at that point. I was making food, keeping the house clean, reading books (6-10), trying to watch how we talk to eachother, etc. I said I was sorry so many times. I said I 100% totally messed up and begged her to forgive me. I said she also needed to put as much as she can into communicating with me and fixing our issues.
> 
> She said she needed to move out. Initially, she didn't know what was going to come of it or if she would come back. she said she needed out of the constant stress. As she was moving out, she said that she wanted to try to work on the marriage but needed to move out to reset her stress and be able to work on the marriage. This was the hardest thing I've ever gone though. I cried so many times.
> 
> When she is stressed she needs space and time to think about it. She moved out for 2 months. We went on great dates and had sex on the weekends. It was unbelievably hard for me. She was much happier when we would see eachother. She had the space and time she needed. It was nice for both of us to be able to mentally prepare for a date night and not have to come into it with conflict from the week. I was basically trying to surviving and was VERY depressed the last few weeks. I emotionally shut down one of our dates and one of the times I called her it ended really badly. I was in a really bad emotional place and was having a hard time keeping it together.
> 
> What helped me a lot during this was a list that someone else had posted on the site about what to do in a separation.I'm not 100% sure where it came from
> 
> 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
> implore.
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
> 4. Do not follow her around the house.
> 5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
> 6. Do not ask for help from family members.
> 7. Do not ask for reassurances.
> 8. Do not buy gifts.
> 9. Do not schedule dates together.
> 10. Do not spy on spouse.
> 11. Do not say "I Love You"
> 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
> 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
> 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
> 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
> 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
> 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
> 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
> 20. All questions about marriage should be put on
> hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
> 21. Never lose your cool.
> 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
> 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
> 24. Be patient
> 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
> 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
> 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
> 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
> 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
> CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
> 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
> 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
> 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
> 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
> 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
> 
> She moved back in about 3 weeks ago, and has been saying that she loves me and is happy being married to me. We aren’t completely in the clear, but I hope we are mostly there
> 
> It finally feels like we are both on the same side and fighting together for our marriage. I feel like the biggest shift is that we are both focusing on making sure the other person is happy while also communicating our own wants and needs.
> 
> I learned that sometime I need to just shut up and not push and issue or only say something like "I'm feeling stressed about something and I'm not sure how to fix it". I've learned to watch my anxiety during arguments. She likes to discuss stuff MUCH slower than me and usually needs a few hour break to process and reconnect later.
> 
> As far as I know, she accepted that I will never be perfect and that we need to discuss things in a way that leads to doing things better next time. She is willing to communicate with me when I mess up and how to do it better. She realized how much she hurt me when she would promise things to make discussions stop and then not following through on those things.
> 
> We are both trying to get used to this. I’m still having a hard time coping and dealing with coming off of borderline depression the last several weeks she was moved out. I’ve struggled and had counseling for anxiety and depression before in my life. Her current job is extremely stressful, and we have to be very careful on weekdays to not turn that stress into relationship stress. We are both trying very hard to communicate and trust the other person. Its hard with everything being so new, but I really hope this is a new era for our relationship.
> 
> Thank you all for helping me with my story and letting me read try to help you in your stories. Many of the things on this site helped me put my own relationship in perspective.
> 
> The last 10 month of my life have been the hardest I've ever been through. They have challenged everything about me and reshaped my view of the world.


Just wanted to say, the only reason I registered on this site was to thank you for writing this post. I also feel it needs to be quoted in full. Just brilliant stuff bro. So many parallels to my situation in life right now. 

My background = early 30s, just finished a residency and making a ton of money as a physician, beautiful and incredible wife, married for almost 2 years, 2 dogs, new house, basically on top of the world. Then 2 months ago relationship goes to hell in the blink of an eye, I try desperately to fix everything instantly, further drive her away, leads to separation, she moves out. I spend the last 2 weeks reading every relationship book available, we go to counseling for about a month and I feel like calling it quits forever.

So then I read your post where you relate the top 34 things not to do during a separation and I realize I have been pretty much doing the opposite of all of them. Time to slow down and back off and give her plenty of space. Thanks brotha


----------



## less_disgruntled

Um, wait.

I'm printing this out to refer to it (the OP, not the 180), but I have some questions.



> 6. Do not ask for help from family members.
> 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
> 20. All questions about marriage should be put on
> hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
> 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
> 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
> 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
> CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
> 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
> 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.


I have some serious questions. It sounds like you followed some, not all, of the "180", and that's why I'm confused that you posted the whole thing. Do you mind explaining?

How the heck are you supposed to "communicate" and set up dates if you follow these rules? How did you ever learn to tell what you wanted from your spouse if you weren't allowed to talk about it with her? "Do not believe any of what you hear" but you have to learn communication skills? Only show happiness? I thought you had to learn what issues you had? Do not focus on yourself, sure, but, um, eventually your partner has to learn, right? Aren't you both mad with each other?

And "do not be... cold"? Isn't that kind of what minimizing interaction is? ****ing hell, my wife is usually happier when I'm "warmer", not that I want to be.


:scratchhead:


It's one thing to pull back and shut up and listen and act. It makes sense not to broach the damn relationship. But it's another to "not believe any of what you hear"? Huh? I thought you had to "really listen". and "less than 50% of what you see?" I thought it was the actions that counted? Like I said, I'm not trying to be contrary but I really don't get this, it seems like a contradiction.

And if you're a "words" person... where does that put you? Sure, it's part of the problem, but isn't the theory that both partners need to reciprocate the others' style?

What did you do in the counselor's office? Not being hostile here, i just don't get it.

Like a lot of the stuff on this site, it mixes power and control and domination in with honest communication and self-respect. There's black and white thinking but then the damn issue isn't black and white... How the **** do you ever reconcile if you are only allowed to hear and your spouse's needs? And, yes, sorry, but both parties have needs and reasonable expectations from their spouse, even men, that their spouse has to meet. Do you get a chance to communicate it? Do you get to talk about what went wrong at some point? How do you avoid it without communicating it?

Also "do not ask for help from family members"? It's true that my parents are the last people I want to talk to about this type of thing, but "Hey mom my wife moved out can you help with the kids?" is off the list? What about "hey do you have any advice?" or "I'm lonely can I talk?"





> 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
> implore.
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
> 4. Do not follow her around the house.
> 5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
> 
> 7. Do not ask for reassurances.
> 8. Do not buy gifts.
> 9. Do not schedule dates together.
> 10. Do not spy on spouse.
> 11. Do not say "I Love You"
> 
> 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
> 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
> 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
> 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
> 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
> 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
> 21. Never lose your cool.
> 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
> 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
> 24. Be patient
> 
> 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
> 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
> 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
> 
> 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
> 34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


----------



## anx

@less_disgruntled

You are correct. I posted the whole thing and used what was helpful and fit in my situation.

About communication. During the roughest parts of our marriage our communication was broken. There was really almost no way to discuss issues without bringing in way to much. Also, we were both to hurt and stressed to communicate is a way that ended in anything positive. 

We would talk about simple stuff on dates, I would occasionally say I'm sorry for what I did in the past. I tried to explain that we both did the best I knew how and it was wrong.

However, the biggest improvement was me taking over the chores, and completely removing that stress and day to day argument. I was able to show my wife that I loved her and was working on our marriage, and that that was more important than an hour or 2 extra free time a week.

I can't fully explain what I did, and you will have to figure out what works for you. I think you're getting caught up in the semantics of it all. I promised myself I would not argue with my wife. I found a way to give her space and to slow down or stop any issues we were having.


You are correct, I am a "words" person. I would drown out my wife talking so much, and it was smothering and overwhelming her (i have felt pretty overwhelmed reading some of what you posted). I changed in order to make it work. I wasn't happy with what I was doing to my wife. What I was doing wasn't helping anyways. I still talk a lot more than my wife, but I watch it closely and always make sure she feels listened to (the huge issue we had in our relationship).

In the counselor office, I would make sure my wife talked about anything she wanted to talk about first. She often wouldn't have much to say. I had to advocate for myself in the counselors office towards the end because our counselor didn't see my side as easily as she did my wifes sometimes.


The last thing I'll say is that communication is what broke and then fixed our marriage. We both had to fundamentally change how we talked to the other person. I shut up because what I was doing wasn't working and was counteractive to our marriage. In that time, doing the chores show my wife I was dedicated and loved her. Once I figured out how to communicate in a way that worked, I slowly and carefully started communicating better, but during the interim, I was VERY careful with every word and promised myself I wouldn't fight or go back to the same issues as before.


----------



## less_disgruntled

anx said:


> In the counselor office, I would make sure my wife talked about anything she wanted to talk about first. She often wouldn't have much to say. I had to advocate for myself in the counselors office towards the end because our counselor didn't see my side as easily as she did my wifes sometimes.
> 
> 
> The last thing I'll say is that communication is what broke and then fixed our marriage. We both had to fundamentally change how we talked to the other person. I shut up because what I was doing wasn't working and was counteractive to our marriage. In that time, doing the chores show my wife I was dedicated and loved her. Once I figured out how to communicate in a way that worked, I slowly and carefully started communicating better, but during the interim, I was VERY careful with every word and promised myself I wouldn't fight or go back to the same issues as before.


I pretty much have an embargo on talking about anything with my wife, and have been acting like it's not 'safe' to say anything outside the counselor's office. I mean she has blown up at me over really really trifling ****.

But you say that you had to "advocate" for yourself in the counselor's office--what do you mean?


I am taking things pretty literal, but this is the internet, I can't hear tone. I'm trying to figure out whether the 180 list means "ignore, ignore, ignore" or "do your own thing" or "don't be needy" or "play sadmomasochistic head-games". B/c I do all of those and they all seem just a little off.

anyway thanks for the input.


----------



## anx

@less_disgrungted, advocating for myself in counseling

Our counselor had an easy time relating to my wife and understanding where she was coming from (my wife didn't have to say much of anything sometimes).

I started to bring up what my issues were. I would prepare for most sessions and keep a list of what I thought still needed to be fixed or worked on. 

I wouldn't interrupt the session, but I would make sure to bring up my side after we had talked about things my wife wanted to talk about instead of it always being focused on what I did wrong.


----------



## Anooniemouse

Thank you for posting your story, Anx. 

I find some parallels with my own. K & I both came out of high conflict relationships, and neither of us wanted a repeat of what we had before. Unfortunately, that led to the occasional bit of stuffing issues that needed to be spoken to, rather than dealing with them right then & there. It made me feel a bit insecure, because I never knew exactly where I really stood with her. Do that long enough, and when they do come out, and they will, we were getting blindsided by it. 

Although she got better about voicing issues, I held back just that bit because I didn't feel like I stood on completely solid ground. We had a few strikes against us, namely my health, her debts, one of my debts, both trying to get through school (pharmacy school for me -- still on the trek!), and she was getting her masters in counseling (which she just got). While I would give her any amount of affection she sought, plenty of acts of service, and the occasional gift that might be a little beyond my means ... I wasn't putting everything out there emotionally for her, and I wasn't being an open book with her. When I did open up, those things had often turned to many disappointments, and I was overly critical of her when it came to affection. I also pushed for more than what she could give me, as her own life was out of balance. She in turn became quite critical of what I did share, and it made me even more want to contain that, and just keep to myself. In turn, she would pull away, and then eventually we would speak like grown ups about it, and vow to reconcile things. Sometimes this happened, sometimes it was just words. This cycle repeated.

Though I love her like no other, I couldn't figure out why this was so bloody difficult. I prayed, and prayed, and prayed. What I truly needed from her, but didn't understand fully myself, was to hear her say the words "I am yours, completely". It was the permission that this was a safe place to let everything out. To be a fully open book to her, so we both could get on the same page of dealing with issues as they came up rather than letting them build. 

I finally became frustrated enough that I wanted to leave, and I told her so, and that I was unhappy -- and why. I had pushed myself to give more, and to give what I thought she needed. In turn, she had appreciated the effort, but still pushed me away as often as she took me into her arms. In a conversation with a lot of tears, she talked me down from wanting to call it quits. She said a few things I needed to hear, and it gave me some real pause about what I was doing. In turn, it made her feel a little less secure in things herself, and that would cost us both later. It wasn't a great period that followed, and December was one of the most miserable months I have ever endured. To the outside world people would think we were the happiest couple. We still held hands out, we still made time to talk to each other every day, we split most of the tasks in the house, but while we enjoyed some of it, it wasn't filled with joy. 

I continued to pray daily, and continued to feel like I was not entirely on solid ground, and now so did she. I always had that anxiety in the back of my mind that I never truly knew where I stood, and if she was happy with things. It didn't help that we had many deaths in the family, and 7 funerals later she was a highly depressed mess, overwhelmed with school, and overwhelmed emotionally. She refused to give up on us, but she was not in a position to take a role to fix things. 

Then everyone got sick at once, and we spent weeks couped up together. Then snowed in during a pair of blizzards immediately after. Nothing can get you to the point of going loopy like several weeks locked in the same space, with an entire house that feels lousy. She went down first, and I cared for her when she was too weak to make it out of bed, but then the kids caught it, and I cared for them. Eventually I caught it too, flu, then pneumonia. I was the last to make it out of bed from being sick. I have an autoimmune disease that makes it take a lot longer to recover from sickness. I was so weak I couldn't even get out of bed to say goodbye to her & the boys in the morning with all of my effort. She cared for me as much as she could, but she still not 100% herself. I felt truly awful, and even more so for not having that simple moment before she left. It was the day that God finally did answer my prayer, and lifted the burden of fear that I was carrying in my heart. I realized how much of that behavior was reciprocal for both of us. I felt truly ashamed for my role in letting things deteriorate, and saw for once the path to trying to make it right. 

I realized that come what may, I had to be an open book to her, that I couldn't hold back & have her know me, and love me for me. I realized all of the areas that I had ceased giving 100% in, and I made a plan to try to correct them. I had nearly 18 days solid in bed to think, and I used that time well. Her love languages are affection, and to a lesser extent quality time, and acts of service. 

I made time for affection, even if she did initially reject me. I cleaned the entire house, from top to bottom, and put love notes in places she would still be finding them weeks later. I made a note of all of the things she had ever been willing to speak to that annoyed her, and I sought to correct them. (One was the return of her bedroom to a crystal clean sanctuary where she could escape the world.) I tried to make good on the promises to fix things I had put off, or moved to a lower priority. I made more time for the kids, and started to work on my relationship with her oldest (being a step parent is hard as nails sometimes). She rejected my words, she rejected my affection. I tried not to be discouraged. Coming home that day to a completely clean house, a meal prepared, and the night alone for her to give her the space to deal with what she needed -- she reached out to me after. She was overwhelmed to see that on a day I was insanely busy everything was done, and restored to its proper order, with a reminder of the place she holds in my heart everywhere. 

I started talking to her like I hadn't since we were first dating, and I cried a long time with her. I took it on the chin to tell her how ashamed I was of some things I had done, and not done during the past several years with her, and a ton during the previous 9 months. I vowed to her that I would be an open book, and I started by doing it. I told her the things I needed to hear from her, and why I needed to hear them. I told her the place she occupied in my heart, and that I hadn't done a very good job of showing it with my actions. I prayed with her. I prayed for her. I prayed for us. I took a leap of faith that when she was ready, she would make the same with me. As much as I wanted to share, and we talk longer these days than we have in a long time -- I also spend more time away doing the things I need to do for me. 

Its slowly starting to pay dividends. She is opening up, and wanting that affection, and sex again. She still finds it hard to take me seriously when I hold her against the counter, and tell her how much I want her...but I'm working on that.  We agreed to do 30 days of daily sex, and she was incredibly enthusiastic about it. We even made up cards, 15 each, for the things we would like to do during those days, and put them in a hat to draw a new one each day. She's become open to experiment again, and open to tell me what she wants, what she needs, what she wants from me, what she is afraid of, and when I'm annoying the (*** out of her. 

I wont say that we are there yet, but at least we are on the right path, and this time I think we are both doing it with a formula that works. Its almost like falling in love with her all over again, and for once I feel like we are loving each other the way God intended for us. Thats a pretty overwhelming feeling, and its putting me to tears to write that. I know it may be awhile before we fully come to the same page, and some of the hurts generated are dealt with, and forgotten, but its so much better than where we were at only a few months ago.


----------



## anx

Anooniemouse,
I like your story a lot too. Things are still going well for us.

I didn't write the affect of my faith into my story. I started going back to church (its hard to go to church when your relationship is rough) and prayed a lot. The sermons I went to were about (in order of when I started going back) personal lament (psalms), public lament (psalms), and then making a house a home. I'm not sure what they were about after that, but the first 3 going back made a profound effect on me. It was the one time during the week I could be hopeful even when things were bad.

I wanted to do try the month of daily sex, but my wife's job is currently borderline traumatic every day. I'm currently tring to be as helpful as I can until she gets a new job. Hopefully, we'll get to that later. Where did you hear about or read about a month of daily sex?

Congratulations on your success. I wrote my story because I when I was going through rough times I desperately wanted to know if other people had made it work. I could barely find any stories about successful reconciliation. I think a lot of people who make it work stop coming to sites like these and focus on the happiness in their lives. I'm going to stick around for the time being until something changes or I burn out. Its not easy to read heart-wrenching stories every day.

Best of luck to you.


----------



## Anooniemouse

The 30 days of sex was a challenge from a minister of a southern church to his congregation a couple years ago. He decided to talk about the practical side of Ephesians 5:25-33, and Corinthians 7:3-5 one day. Executive summary: Love her as you love you own body, and your life. You tend to your needs for yourself, give her needs, and tend to her needs, physically, sexually, and otherwise with the same priority. You truly do *belong* to her, and she to you. It hit me more one day that when she has that shoulder blade that hurts, or unfulfilled desire (whether its sex, or the light on the fan in the bedroom I still hadn't fixed) what it really meant, an how I was supposed to deal with it. It really got brought home how much during that period of feeling sick. We found the energy one night...and it made us both feel so positively electric, connected, and close. It was such a contrast to how I had been feeling that I couldn't help but notice. I had kissed her for maybe 20 minutes straight afterward, and we held each other for probably an hour. I just kept asking myself, why don't we do that anymore? We both enjoy it, and we both love making love. Maybe we need some new habits! In the same way you know when you are doing wrong, it was such a contrast to do right. So I asked her, why don't we kiss like that anymore? It makes me positively want her. Why don't we take the time to hold each other like that. I felt it would soften both of us, and build in a bit of emotional cushioning for us. I was surprised that she agreed as easily, she only asked "How?", and I told her, well maybe some days its going to be that we only have time for a few minutes before we have to rush out the door, or just oral sex, or what have you...It doesn't always have to be the hours we set aside. Then the how question went away, and it simply became one of "When?" ...

Its early yet, and she is a little sore because we haven't been doing this as often in the past. Well, not in the recent past. Its a much higher emotional keel for both of us, and even if its a quick one in the morning before out the door, it still makes us feel more connected. Maybe I'll post on day 32 or so how that went. 

Church & sermons are a funny thing. Some days I feel completely disconnected from it, and other times its like what was brought up is speaking directly to me, written directly for me. I've been learning never to underestimate God, nor keep him in a box. I've also been learning that sometimes he wont help until you really call upon him with the knowledge in your heart that you can't do this alone. In that same way that you know when you are doing wrong, its there when you know you are doing right too. Its just sometimes it seems easier to do that little bit of wrong at the moment, and overlook things, or feel like "I've got a handle on this myself". I'm doing better with it, but its a whole heck of a lot better with *help*. 

It is the nature of sites like that that people come, and share their worst. I have a private journal that I keep (encrypted because its contents would cause great pain to K -- probably the one thing I know enough NOT to share with her). I used to post to it every day, and it was way more balanced then when I did. Eventually it got to where I rarely posted the good things to it, just the trauma, and to read that you would think the past few years of my life have been filled with nothing but misery rather than largely filled with a lot of joy. (A lot of stress too!) I think its a real blessing for everyone when he hear that things are working, and do stick around. 

I'm planning on sticking around. I'm trying to learn now from the mistakes of others so I don't repeat them in my own life, and with K. Some days the stories here do tear my heart, and sometimes the only thing I can take is "Thank God I'm not dealing with that...". Its easy to get overwhelmed by the sadness, and some really awful things that people are going through, truly terrible ways people are treating each other, and it does make me cry sometimes. In between those there is some really good advice learned from hard experience, and quite a bit of collective wisdom. (Though I find some of it a little more to the paranoid side when it comes to issues like prying.)


----------



## Jadegreen

I find this very intersting, Anx, and the postings by Anooniemouse, too. I tracked your postings, Anx, after you made suggestions on mine - thanks again. it seems like maybe I have the problem in reverse - in your case the relationship hit a hard time, so then the sex lagged. in my case, the lagging sex is the problem. But maybe I need to think about this again - is it a symptom of something else? bottled up tensions? It seems you both have been really, really heroic, but also humble. I also "see" here that you both had to examine yourself. While you don't say that you were wrong, you acknowledge that your way of doing things didn't necessarily work for her and you had to do a lot of changing and bending. It is hard, isn't it, when we get into relationships and then find that who we are, or who the other person is, doesn't mesh in all ways. it makes us really face up to our responsibilities - get out of our little shells where we think the world is for us. And even so, even after your work here, it isn't perfect, even though it is improving. thank you for being so honest - with yourselves, and here on this blog. it helps to see people really working hard at this.


----------



## harley

Thanks for the good advice. I hope it is not to late for my marriage. After our last child was born, about four and a half years ago, my wife seemed to loose her sex drive. We only would have sex two or three times a month. I discussed the issue with her, but she said she just did not feel like having sex. I have always satisfied her in bed and could not understand the problem. She would not go to the doctor and get checked out either. After about two years of this I just kind of gave up. I guess I quite showing her the affection she needed because I did not feel loved. She recently told me she wanted a divorce. I thought she was finally ready to work on our marriage, but instead she said she did not love me anymore. She also went on to tell me there is no passion or romance in our relationship anymore. I think we could work through this if we went to counseling and she went to the doctor to get checked out, but she refuses to try. She is now moving out and wants to do joint custody with our two children. Everyone is confused about this whole situation, including her parents. I hope trying your advice will work because I love my wife. I have been trying to talk her into trying to work through this, and I guess I should have been giving her some space. She has been going to stay with her friend and I have been staying home with the kids. I hope showing her I will go on with my life, and showing her what she will have to miss will work. I really do not want to loose my family. I was just about to give up, but now I think giving up may be the only thing that can save our marriage. I made plans for Friday, and I am going to just agree with her about moving out. We do have a meeting with a lawyer scheduled, but I hope she will change her mind before this divorce is final.


----------



## anx

I recently read "love must be tough". It a Christian centered book, and deal directly with how to act when someone is totally disconnected and set on divorce or continuing with an affair. 

We've also reconnected with church more, and I am reading sacred marriage, which has been inspirational.

There has been another hurdle in my marriage that is beginning to threaten it. I know we can get past it, but my wife isn't sure. I've been told a ton of hurtful things recently, but have a ton of hope. 

Anything thoughts or prayers would be appreciated.


----------



## Faith2011

I am running out of time as the court date for our divorce nears. I have done a modified 180 but we always slip when we are together and he backs off again. My queston is, how to get him to go to counseling. He thinks it is pointless at this time, but I think if we started with a new therapist, he my start to see that our problems are fixable. Do I make an appointment, invite him, and then give him time to make up his mind?


----------



## anx

Yeah, that would be my advise. Slip up are really rough when things are bad. Its shocked me how fast things can go south.

Best of luck


----------



## anx

My wife and I are back together. Things seem good. I don't have anything more to write at the moment. The only additional wisdom I have is although there can often seem to be no hope, a lot can change in 6 month to 2 years.

2 separations, 2 marriage counselors, 2 years, 2 serious issues with depression, and it all came out alright, or at least looks like it for now.


----------



## LonelyNLost

anx said:


> My wife and I are back together. Things seem good. I don't have anything more to write at the moment. The only additional wisdom I have is although there can often seem to be no hope, a lot can change in 6 month to 2 years.
> 
> 2 separations, 2 marriage counselors, 2 years, 2 serious issues with depression, and it all came out alright, or at least looks like it for now.


I wish you luck, anx. You are a good man who cares deeply for his wife and his marriage, and you deserve the best. Keep the faith, and hopefully you've both grown from the experience. Glad to hear things are on the up!


----------



## sadwithouthim

anx said:


> My wife and I are back together. Things seem good. I don't have anything more to write at the moment. The only additional wisdom I have is although there can often seem to be no hope, a lot can change in 6 month to 2 years.
> 
> 2 separations, 2 marriage counselors, 2 years, 2 serious issues with depression, and it all came out alright, or at least looks like it for now.


Thanks for the advice.....I'm coming up on a year of separation and feel like I'm loosing hope.....thanks for the inspiration.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DownUnder

anx said:


> My wife and I are back together. Things seem good. I don't have anything more to write at the moment. The only additional wisdom I have is although there can often seem to be no hope, a lot can change in 6 month to 2 years.
> 
> 2 separations, 2 marriage counselors, 2 years, 2 serious issues with depression, and it all came out alright, or at least looks like it for now.


Hi Anx,

Im normally a lurker but i had to post here because i have been following your story and had hopes that you are able to works things out with your wife.

Im so please and happy for you, keep remembering that all God's plan for us are for good and if you keep being faithful your dream will come to pass 

Anx, if you dont mind sharing with us...im wondering how is your wife's feeling and behaviour now after your previous update when she was saying that she doesn't feel any attraction anymore and that she doesn't love you like a wife?

The reason why im asking is because we are in the process of working in our marriage again apart 10 months of separation (my husband left me and the kids and our family home) initially he said exactly what your wife said he went thru a period of depression and he also didn't want me to touch him. We are slowly rebuilding our connection and intimacy but i would like to know how was your process of finding the connection with your wife again and are you in a place where you can confidently say that she now knows that she loves you and able to express her love for you openly?

Sorry for prying but i would love to know if you dont mind sharing as it would give me some insight to how things might progress with us in the future


----------



## anx

All I can really say is we did the same thing. We slowly rebuilt. 

There really isn't anything I could do or you can do to "win" the person back. I continued to pursue and do nice things, but for a long time she wanted little to do with me. There is no single thing or series of things I could do to fix things.

I can say that she loves me. I wish I could say with 100% confidence that everything will be good. We are both still unpacking from the move, trying to put stuff in practice, we are both sick (I had pneumonia and she has something that has lingered for weeks), and work is insane for us both at the moment. 

Your husband and my wife are both responsible for how they feel and their part of the marriage. Wanting to work on a marriage when overwhelmed by negative feelings isn't really possible. The amount that I or you can do is limited. 

Basically, all you can do is your part and hope your husband sees that and does his part. Do your part to the best of your ability and try to show christlike love in your actions. We are all given free will and chose our path in a time of trials. In marriage, that gets complicated. I have read so many stories of someone choosing to go another way and leave behind a shattered spouse or checking out when things get hard.

2 Thessalonians 3:13
And as for you, brothers and sisters, never tire of doing what is good. 

Blessings.


----------



## believergirl

Anx you are my deepest inspiration at this moment
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DownUnder

Thanks for sharing that Anx, i really appreciate it


----------



## anx

Also, I would very much suggest the books "I don't want a divorce: a 90 day plan" which wants you to get a couples devotional "night lights". They are faith based / christian books. The first book has a very well laid out plan.


----------

