# Don't do this to your wife



## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Background--recently converted (from "LD" to "HD") wife who really is trying to find a way to "back convert" now

_Timeline--_
Tried lots of things to spice things up, had several days of sex with H
---->
Both got a horrendous cold. Kind of got blamed for it (I work with sick patients) and said I gave it to him. Still, slept separately, no kiss no cuddle whatsoever to avoid making each other sicker
(4 days later) ----->
Finally got over the cold, started snuggling up to H but every night found him gone to bed earlier than me. If I would wake him up, he would get mad (because he has this problem of not being able to fall back asleep if waken up)
(another 3 days) ----->
Got mad. Told him we did not even have to do anything but if he would wait for me (we are talking about 10:30 pm here, not midnight) to "go to sleep together". He said he understood, but still no sex.
(next morning) -----> really could not take it because he was about to do his own business (carwash) so I stopped him and gave him BJ until he was stimulated enough to have sex, and just like what people say about women (some women, at least), the more you have, sometimes the more you want it, so....

(that same night) -----> really wanted it again, but seriously doubted if he would be interested to have a so-soon-second-act. He was not. So I dutifully slept.

(the next day, next night, next next night) ---->H kept complaining about his allergy. Sneezing and blowing his nose. It's amazing how unattractive this was and I still tried to get him interested in sex. To no avail. Finally, I gave him BJ again and got him to do it, but he came so quickly I was not there, and I refused his helping me this time with finger because he seemed tired enough. And I am a little tired of this fingering thing too. I was hoping maybe we could catch up next AM.

(next AM)----> He had completely forgotten how I was heaving and having trouble sleeping the previous night and went about his usual business. I sighed and quietly masturbated to regain my sanity. 

(that same night)---> I was still not over it, to my chagrin. I snuggled up and suggested, He loudly sneezed and rejected. 

(2 nights later)---->I had already brought home 3 nasal sprays and 1 eye drop all for allergy. He was not sneezing. I suggested and he said next AM we had to wake up early to get the kid to school. This was again like 10:30pm. I asked if he would do it if I were to get up and take care of the kid. He mumbled and went to sleep. 

(This morning)---> I got up and made the kid pancake and the kid was gone. I approached H and he said the cleaning lady was coming (she sometimes comes on Wed so I didn't know). I sighed and left the house.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Perhaps he is feeling a little pressured by all the requests? Many people, when they feel they are being pressured, will pull back in order to create space for themselves.

Have you ever read MEM's thermostat/barometer thread?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/21278-thermostat-ultimate-barometer-your-r.html

It applies to either sex. You may want to try pulling back from him a bit and not be overbearing about wanting sex. Work on your own hobbies and interests, be upbeat, show him that you have it together. Maybe he will come chasing you.

Are there any other things going on in your marriage or with him that would cause him to not be interested? His health? Stress? Prior sexual issues in your marital history together? EA/PA?

Best wishes.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm sorry you're going through this. Few things are as frustrating and hurtful as being regularly rejected by your spouse.

You should probably talk to your husband about your frustrations. If you've spent years as the LD spouse, trying to convert your HD husband into a LD husband, you may have succeeded too well. Your husband may genuinely be LD now, or he may just not trust you enough to let his guard down regarding sex. Or, he may be punishing you for the hurt and frustration you put him through.

If you're honest with him about your drive, he may care enough to start putting out more.

Good luck.


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## Toshiba2020 (Mar 1, 2012)

Im curious as to what change in your life made you go from LD to HD, maybe you can give some advice to all of us!
I used to be HD and so was my wife, then shortly after getting married she became LD and over the last year and a half I gradually myself became LD or maybe just gave up better describes it. Now on the RARE occasion shes in the mood Im not and she gets mad. Its like oh you haven’t wanted it for the last month and then all of the sudden you want it and im expected to jump with delight give you an amazing show at your request and then go back to nothing for another month…How about NO! as you can see there is a bit of resentment built up from the year plus of getting constantly rejected, maybe hes having that same resentment.

also, im a bit weary when she is suddenly in the mood, it means she typically wants something really important and knows its her only chance of getting it. so i often have a attitude of wtf do you want now?


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Agree somewhat with Toshiba - maybe. There is not enough information to determine what kind of LD relationship you had. If you went long periods without and showed him little physical affection; maybe he got over you. As you are experiencing, rejection is frustrating (not saying no, but showing no interest also = rejection). In the mind of a 20-40 y/o male, it can be demeaning, humiliating, devastating - and rejected/neglected emotionally. Over the course of a year or years, what do think becomes of someone who is neglected emotionally and physically? They grow resentful and shut down to protect themselves and their dignity (not pride - pride is when rejection happens once; dignity is whether someone else would respect your behavior).

So, the reason for his refusal may be he is just LD. Maybe there is an issue physically. Or maybe (again, not enough information), he has mostly walled himself off from you.


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## lovergood2 (Mar 6, 2012)

Hi Jennifer I have been married for over 10 years , my wife has always had a LD trust me it has been not easy living through it ,from the way you write , I suspect that your husband is getting it else where ask me if I am given another chance I would not marry 

When I dated most women sex was good , I never got a NO but the moment we get married sex drive just goes out of the window , men have to beg always come on!!!! , I know it is nature but I think it is better to date and get what I want with little effort , its your turn now enjoy your own seeds treat others the way you want to be treated


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I do not trust sudden changes in outlook like yours. I figure you'd be covertly gaming for something else, some other thing to get from or over me. Sorry but after a lifetime of him listening to you lay down the law, you finally got your way. Oh well.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry...but the dude sounds stressed out. He's got too man things going on in his head. Too many things he views as problems.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Wow, a personal attack early in AM. 

@Runs like Dog: I always try to keep posts concise without recapping my life story. The "LD" state I was in for so many years was due to resentment and other issues, however, I hardly ever turned down my H. If you asked him, he would not call me "LD", he might have said sometimes I did not seem that interested, and I did hear from him once a while (couple times a year) he had relieved himself. I would say during my LD years sex averaged about once a week. 

@Enchantment: I am pulling back. The problem is I need to douse myself with ice water and relieve myself 4x a day:rofl: I will read the link you provided later. 
One problem is my H and I spend a vast amount of time together. We have many off days, and we work together. However, at work I try to keep it very professional. When we are off, during day time generally we go about our own businesses. I take classes and I have 100000 more interests than him. In the past, we often ran into problems based on my interests. He would criticize them and said I had too many. I am trying to resume a lot of them to occupy my time (like get my camera and tripod in the bag) but I wonder if I will eventually revert to my LD state since all these factors are kind of connected. 

@PHT lump, as I explained above, my "LD" did not "damage" H much compared to most of LD/sexless situations described on this forum, I would think.(Frankly, every time I read one of those I don't understand why not divorce). So I do not think punishment is an issue. 

@Toshiba2020, I actually went back and read your story (and your LD wife thread). I am a woman in my 40's and you might not like hearing this, but based on how your wife has handled the marriage, it sounds like she is not mature enough for it. I am not saying there should not be connections to one's family, but having TOO CLOSE connections with one's original family is not healthy. You need to nurture your new nest. Going to parents' house after work instead of coming home shows lack of commitment. I would only do that if I have ONE parent living alone, old or ill. As far as LD and HD are concerned...many many causes, but in your case, you are too young to be sadly staring at a calendar. You have to do something about your situation. 

@SpruceHub: ditto as above. I really don't think my H is punishing me. No ground for that. 

It is just a little sad I thought he would kind of like my change also, but he is always the way he is, he gets what HE wants and what HE wants is always the right way.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

My personal experience is these type things don't turn on a dime. You can't just flip a switch. 

My bets on he's scared it won't last so he's avoiding you to avoid feeling the pain he feels is coming when you switch back to LD. And even though you never turned him down he likely knew you didn't really want him. And as you said yourself it was only once a week. 

You've trained him well and it's going to take time and patience to UNtrain him.


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

Jennifer - I did not mean to imply he was punishing you, just that he has shut down to protect himself. You said during your LD phase, it was about 1x a week. You should read some of simplyamorous's posts. She recounts how she finally realized that her husband was suffering silently. If your husband was really ok with 1x per week in his 20's or 30's, then he's likely ok with that much now (although not clear why he wouldn't help you out).

Is it a physical need or emotional need that is not being met?

As to why not divorce in an HD/LD relationship where the LD person is showing not much care for the HD person: love - and the hope that it will return (my wife does not mean to hurt me, and really doesn't understand what to do; she is willing to be told, but not really go out looking for information on her own); children - and the need to be around them; inertia - never discount the human tendency to stay in a comfortable but imperfect situation.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> I do not trust sudden changes in outlook like yours. I figure you'd be covertly gaming for something else, some other thing to get from or over me. Sorry but after a lifetime of him listening to you lay down the law, you finally got your way. Oh well.


Exactly. She wakes up one day and switches and expects him to be on board after she set the precedent? How egotistical. Was he a part of the process of change? Did he even see it coming? Obviously not, he is just reacting as he is accustomed to doing after aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllll those years of you being LD. 
Your H is not at fault, you are. Sorry to say.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

mikeydread1982 said:


> Exactly. She wakes up one day and switches and expects him to be on board after she set the precedent? How egotistical. Was he a part of the process of change? Did he even see it coming? Obviously not, he is just reacting as he is accustomed to doing after aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllll those years of you being LD.
> Your H is not at fault, you are. Sorry to say.


Gees, can you guys stop this personal attack thing?

I "woke up" because I discovered how much I really cared about my H but the feelings were buried underneath all the resentment stemming from his negative comments. He is totally aware of this process because we were/still are working on these issues (him not giving me negative comments all the time). 

For all you guys who probably have resentment because your wife is LD, I know my H did not have that problem. Like I mentioned in another thread, HD and LD are relative. This about once a week thing was more like normal for my H. When he was younger it was probably higher, I do not remember, but like I said, I RARELY turned him down. A lot of time it built resentment on my part because I was not fully in the mood but would always consent (and not LYING THERE LIKE A DEAD HORSE consent. I would engage and enjoy but could not orgasm because it was too quick). The only one thing I rejected was when in the middle of the night he would half wake up and push my head down for BJ. It was just too inconsiderate. I would like BJ to be more passionate and spontaneous.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

So essentially the tables have turned and NOW you have a problem with it?

That`s what it basically sounds like to be.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

I didn't say it was fair or reasonable, I'm just pointing out resentment manifests itself. People are strange that way - you think you're doing everything they want and more, and they're sitting there grumbling about something else altogether. So here's what you do - sit him down and explain all of this to him the way you explain it to us.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jennifer1986 said:


> Gees, can you guys stop this personal attack thing?


I think you need to lighten up on assuming these are all personal attacks. Some may be, but others are trying to point out where you husband may be coming from. Tone does not translate on a message board, so take that into account.



> For all you guys who probably have resentment because your wife is LD, I know my H did not have that problem. Like I mentioned in another thread, HD and LD are relative. This about once a week thing was more like normal for my H. When he was younger it was probably higher, I do not remember, but like I said, I RARELY turned him down. A lot of time it built resentment on my part because I was not fully in the mood but would always consent (and not LYING THERE LIKE A DEAD HORSE consent. I would engage and enjoy but could not orgasm because it was too quick). The only one thing I rejected was when in the middle of the night he would half wake up and push my head down for BJ. It was just too inconsiderate. I would like BJ to be more passionate and spontaneous.


You mentioned not turning him down, but how often did he initiate during this time frame. When my wife and I were having real issues in this area (we were at once every 10-14 days), she would make comments that I interpretted as rejection (head hurting, how tired she was, etc.). Because of that, I would not initiate. She had a good track record of not explicitly refusing me, but her body language and comments effectively communicated that it was not on the table. I was very upset about that, and resentful at times.

How often would that have occured with you?


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Well, I probably was not that _enthuiastic_ at times in those days. And that is exactly what we are talking about here...

Life is not exactly fair. When I was not so much into it, I still did it to my best ability, and I am sure my H at least got a reasonable amount of satisfaction. 

Now let's say the table has turned...yes, sure, but the question is, is that a good or bad thing? I've said here I can "back-convert", because that seems the way to make everyone reasonably happy. I certainly do not like repeated rejections. Mind you, I never REPEATEDLY rejected my H. It's more like a "what about tomorrow" if I ever turned him down. If he could not wait until tomorrow either we would do it or he would go relieve himself I guess. But when a woman asks, the rejection is IN YOUR FACE because if he is not up to it, there is nothing you can do. I will take a raincheck if it's redeemed in a couple of days. But if it's backordered 2 wks, what....go to another store?:scratchhead:


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

It's also possible that your husband is sick and doesn't feel up to sex. The timeline in your original post seemed to be about a week. And, you stated that your husband seemed to be suffering some sinus problems. That could put sex out of the question for some people right there.

If this issue is really only about the past week of his behavior, then I suggest not suggesting sex until he's healthy. If this past week is just more of the same when he is healthy, then I suggest you talk about it and let him know that you would like more sex.

Good luck.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jennifer1986 said:


> Well, I probably was not that _enthuiastic_ at times in those days. And that is exactly what we are talking about here...
> 
> Life is not exactly fair. When I was not so much into it, I still did it to my best ability, and I am sure my H at least got a reasonable amount of satisfaction.


But again, how often did he initiate/ask? If you rarely turned him down, but he was only asking once a week, then he was likely wanting more but not pushing it. He may well have been reading you to not be interested, and thus implicitly rejecting him. Adding to that your admission that you were not all that enthusiastic, and he does not see that what you did was some big sacrifice for him.

To be clear, I am not judging you or attacking, only saying that because of lack of communication, he may well be interpreting what happened in a very different way.



> Now let's say the table has turned...yes, sure, but the question is, is that a good or bad thing? I've said here I can "back-convert", because that seems the way to make everyone reasonably happy. I certainly do not like repeated rejections. Mind you, I never REPEATEDLY rejected my H. It's more like a "what about tomorrow" if I ever turned him down. If he could not wait until tomorrow either we would do it or he would go relieve himself I guess. But when a woman asks, the rejection is IN YOUR FACE because if he is not up to it, there is nothing you can do. I will take a raincheck if it's redeemed in a couple of days. But if it's backordered 2 wks, what....go to another store?:scratchhead:


I am curious as to why his rejecting you is so much worse than you rejecting him. Rejection is rejection. He could help you out or your could relieve yourself, just as he did, yet you strongly believe that what him rejecting you, even once, is worse than when you rejected him. Why?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

sounds like a double standard that alot of women have. when guys are young and full of hormones and walking around with a tent in their pants the wives will be pi$$ed thats all you think about kinda comments and avoidance tactics how about tomarrow and then something coventley comes up and it like well I didn't know that was going to come up.


then when the shoe is on the other foot they see things differently.

pure double standard in my book you should have been more understanding when he needed some action now you reap what you have sowed. indifference.


heres the rub most men would have likked your pu$$y for an hour just to get you ready and still wouldn't want it maybe some extended foreplay for him will put him in the mood.


no sympthy over here.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

I converted my with from a LD to HD. For years, she never really turned me down, but If she wasn't in the mood, the sex wasn't all that great. over the past year, with me being more assertive, she has a higher drive. I got what I wanted. BUT... It is ALMOST too much for me. Her drive is slightly more than mine now and I have NO reason to complain like before. She is the one that initiates now. I created a monster and I wonder how long I can keep it up. No pun intended. 

By the way... I think is time to change my user name.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Already Gone said:


> I converted my with from a LD to HD. For years, she never really turned me down, but If she wasn't in the mood, the sex wasn't all that great. over the past year, with me being more assertive, she has a higher drive. I got what I wanted. BUT... It is ALMOST too much for me. Her drive is slightly more than mine now and I have NO reason to complain like before. She is the one that initiates now. I created a monster and I wonder how long I can keep it up. No pun intended.


Be careful what you wish for.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Jennifer... like you, my wife was never enthuiastic with sex. She only had sex because she knew I wanted it. it didn't make me feel much like a man. I also wonder how long this will last. It took a while for me to believe that she was interested in sex and not just trying to make me happy. Now as a man in his 40's I have to perform like a 25 year old. There is some fear there. I don't mind at all givining it a shot though. I would like to have sex every day for a week just to know I can do it. That would sure help my ego.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

i am in this exact situation with my wife, except i cant really say she has gone from LD to HD. I just am not that interested in being intimate with her anymore, and i really dont think she has a big issue with it. IF (big if) she was to go HD, i wouldnt likely just ramp it up with her


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Why on earth would you want to "back convert"? Are you saying you want to REDUCE your own sex drive?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

A good sexual relationship begins outside of the bedroom, so make sure that you are showing your husband love in a way that he can appreciate. Do you know what his love language is? Is he touch, words of affirmation, quality time, acts of service, or gifts? What do you do each day to make him feel loved?

Have resentments built up over the years? Have a frank talk with him about how he views your relationship. Make an effort to break down any walls that may have built up.

This didn't happen overnight, so you will need to be patient while you learn how to awaken sexual desire in him. He sounds tired, so make sure that he gets enough rest. Take a bath together, and give him a massage. Don't try for sex the first time, but repeat this several times before you become sexual with it.

Tease him and flirt. Think about what he liked when you were first courting. Send him flirty texts, and make comments throughout the day. Be persistent and try different positions. 

I think that if you consistently show him that you want to please him, and you want to make your relationship better through a strong sexual connection, he will gradually come around. Be patient--don't give up easily! Concentrate on his pleasure first, and when this is established, let him know how to please you.


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

My husband has a lower drive than me. I have never had this issue in any other relationship. Sometimes he rejects my sexual requests and that throws me off, because I am not used to men not wanting to be intimate all the time.

While I would like to have sex every day, I realize this is too much for my husband. So we compromise on four-five times a week. Anything less than that and I become irritable and tense. 

Last week, my husband rejected me two days in a row. Since I am not a 7-11, when he tried to initiate sex on the third day I laughed in his face. I resent being rejected, so by the time my husband was ready for lovemaking I wasn't willing.

This is what has happened with your husband.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jennifer1986 said:


> I "woke up" because I discovered how much I really cared about my H but the feelings were buried underneath all the resentment stemming from his negative comments. He is totally aware of this process because we were/still are working on these issues (him not giving me negative comments all the time).


 I woke up -probably due to a Mid Life crisis thing and doing a Music Video on me & my husband with a sappy love song looking over our life togehter, I realized "Oh my God where did the time go" and I wanted to go back & grab him & live it all over again, it was a sexual mid life crisis ..alot of FUN too... it threw me into a hormonal frenzy, I never had any resentment towards my husband ...not the normal story on these boards....

BUT....He was silently "stuffing" how he was feeling...he had some resentment towards me, never took it out on me though, only the kids... He loved our sex life, he just wanted more of it & he was too passive to bring it out of me. He doesn't blame me all for this, looking back, he knows it has half his fault too. 

I had NO IDEA all of of this was under the surface... Is your husband a passive man...by any chance?? The Nice guy type who avoids conflict?? Scratch that, I see how he would wake you up and push your head down for a BJ, my husbnad would DIE before he would do such a thing. Your husband does not sound passive !! 

It sounds like you both have resentment issues, you saying "' *alot of time it built resentment on my part because I was not fully in the mood *"....This is the typical wife resentment towards her husband in early marriage... I am sure he felt this (if he cared ??) and it might have built resentmetn in him also, so on both sides here. 

Then as men age, there TEST levels decline also... chances are he'd never be able to keep up with you anyway (4 times a day -YIKES ,you are worse than I was!).....if he is the alpha male type (dominant) .... many times they WANT to be the sole initiator -they want receptiveness always, but a woman coming on to them -is a turn off ...they see it as nothing but pressure. And that is even if all is good... add some resentment on his end to the mix.....it is not a good concoction.

I have read posts like that here a # of times by these types of men ....it always put a smile on my face I didn't marry that type -cause I really believe it would have wrecked my marriage -when I came into this. My passive husband always had a thing for aggressive females, that is what he wanted all along.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

chillymorn said:


> sounds like a double standard that alot of women have. when guys are young and full of hormones and walking around with a tent in their pants the wives will be pi$$ed thats all you think about kinda comments and avoidance tactics how about tomarrow and then something coventley comes up and it like well I didn't know that was going to come up.


 Chillymorn , please don't jump on some of us too hard....I don't know how to prove this to anyone but I was NEVER NEVER NEVER pissed, never showed any disdain for my husbands sex drive, it was just different for us...he was too overly sensitive, he near needed some inviting "sign" from me to come on to me. I get chocked up reading this stuff -it makes me so mad --that I was repressed as I was.

I always loved sex, he even knew that... We never had one fight over sex , he just didn't go there. It is rediculous really . 



> then when the shoe is on the other foot they see things differently.


 We sure as hell DO, why do you think I am soooo damn vocal on here, it pisses me off ! I feel like God has played this cruel trick on the sexes. 

As for me, I have cried a river over this , I have went above & beyond to make up for our past, even he would say so.... he will never hurt again. He knows that. 

What is really funny about my marragie.. I asked my husband one time, after LEARNIGN ALL OF THIS, reading "no more Mr nice Guy" pages to him, telling him he should have faught with me, told me what the hell for... I asked him...IF he could do it all over again, would he... you know what he said to me... he would still do it the same... he wouldn't have wanted to do or say anything to hurt me ... I just threw my hands up in the air!! What the hell do I do with that ... He is hopeless, the only saving grace was me -coming into myself... Thank god I did.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Just to clarify things a bit...

A rejection is not just a rejection. When your spouse says "maybe tomorrow, or a little later", and he or she happily has sex with you later, I think that's acceptable. For example, for the life of me I cannot understand why my H wanted sex RIGHT AFTER a nice full meal. He weights 50 more lbs than me and often does not support himself in the missionary position. Therefore, I would kind of say "hmm, what about in 2 hrs?" I do not think that is unreasonable. 

It's the repeated rejections that bother me a little. Yes, I am talking about reducing my drive here. That's the only way I can handle if he just wants it every 4-5 days or once a week. 

Anyways, gotta run to my evening class. That should keep my mind off for a while.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I say this with all kindness in my heart. You seem to have some residual issues with your husband that I'm sure he must be picking up on. The forced bj, the weight, wanting sex after a meal, the part where he wants things HIS way, etc.

I'm not letting him off the hook by a long shot but for men sex is about acceptance/love and for people with a HD it's more about the release. He might feel used.

Ducking here.....I just feel like there are underlying issues in your marriage that are causing problems IN the bedroom. Fix those and the sex will work itself out.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

I think people have problem with the title of my thread. Well, regarding what happened last night now, disclaimer: I am not saying my H "did this to me". 

Last night I came back from class, did the usual HW thing with kid and put him to sleep, it took a long time until he started snoring (this is another minor problem. The kid (5yr) actually used to just sleep in SAME bed with us. We have many beds in the house so we could go to a different bed to have sex, but we often collapsed in the same bed. I have worked diligently to kick him into his own room and now at least he goes up to top bunk. The bunk was supposed to be for kid and kid's big brother but that guy is in boarding school....long story). Then H started touching me and I was like OK you are very welcome...was I completely ready to devour him. 

So, we cuddled, kissed, I started giving him a gentle BJ, and....

no erection. even though he was obviously enjoying. This is what I have asked here before. He can come (and actually says he would feel horrible if he does not, so in the past I had to help him "finish" with BJ) without getting hard at all. I tried very hard to no avail. He knew I was frustrated too and said I could finish him off then he would help me with fingers. But I had wanted to have real sex with him for like 4 days...anyways, he did come with BJ, then he tried, but I knew he was drowsy (he was practically dozing off my back) while using his fingers. We are also working on this because his finger technique is too rough and I always have to gently pull his hand back. (once it hurts it takes forever to get back in the mode again). Finally I said it's ok, let's just sleep. He said perhaps he drank a little too much (that means like a beer or a glass of wine. We don't have any alcohol addiction here). But this happened a lot in the past. And when it happened before I did not even ask for any help. I always said "well, it's ok''. Because that's what you are SUPPOSED to say. Yeah, I know I know, frank communication, blah blah blah, but what CAN you say? See an MD? Boy we've already got one here (me). What can the MD do? Cialis? We tried that before. Yeah, it kind of works, but it's not like he never gets hard, so it's difficult to call this ED. Part of the reason I was LD was so this would not bother me. If my body can talk, it would probably give any asker 20 reasons why it was LD for all this time subconciously. 

I am still honestly lost this AM and will be happy to talk to my counselor in an hr (I have been going to IC). She is not a sex therapist though, and I try not to be too graphic with my sessions, tend to talk about underlying problems. After that...perhaps more ice water on my head would help. :rofl:


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hi Jennifer ~

Has he ever gone to his doctor and discussed the issues he has with erections?

How long has that been going on? How old is he?

I think it's something that should be checked out with a physician first. An inability to get/maintain an erection can sometimes indicate other health issues in a man, and those possibilities should be eliminated first.

If he often has problems with his erections, no wonder he is not so excited to hop in the sack with a randy wife. No pressure or performance anxiety there. 

Seriously, if he goes to his doctor and gets a clean bill of health, he may be given something like Viagra/Cialis to try. From where I sit on this side of the pink computer screen, it's hard to tell whether your H has physical issues, psychologocial issues, or both - but see if you can start addressing each of those areas one by one.

Best wishes.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

The good news is that he was into it. For the ED issue, it could be physical, or it could be mental. Your change is likely disconcerting for him, too. He may be feeling increased and sudden pressure to step up and give you what you need. And that can cause ED.

So, I suggest giving it some more time. If the ED persists, rule out a physical cause, and then try a sex therapist, or at least some books or something on it.

With both of you willing, you can probably get through it.

Good luck.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

jennifer1986 said:


> Background--recently converted (from "LD" to "HD") wife who really is trying to find a way to "back convert" now
> 
> _Timeline--_
> Tried lots of things to spice things up, had several days of sex with H
> ...


Been there done that!! But it was more like in monthly increments, like every other month to be exact.

I almost left my husband. I was really really close to walking out and filing for divorce. The lack of sex was driving me insane. 

Then out of the blue my drive went AWOL and has been that way ever since. It has been that way for months.. Now the situation is reversed. He wants sex now and I don't. Go figure!!!


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Hmmm. Talked with my therapist. She thought it was totally cool that my H wanted to try Cialis and she also suggested making more "sex foods", knowing I am an aspiring chef. I was like wa...u really think so?
"Why not?"
I paused and said I probably have this deep hidden feeling that a woman wanting sex is "bad", like a nymphomaniac type. I remember when I was young and caught by my mom pleasing myself...my parents lived miles apart for many years and my mom did not see to have a problem with it....
In other words, my natural drive is high, but I would subconsciously think that's not a good girl thing and suffer from not knowing how to deal with it. (No, I am not Catholic, just Asian.

H does not have any medical problem, I know all his lab values. He is late 40's, I am mid 40's. 
I called one close friend and said hmmmm....how often do u do it now?
She was like what kind of q is that? Well, maybe once a wk. (we are all college friends so same age). 
I was like sigh....it's my problem...but I will try my best to not think that way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

Jennifer, do you mind if I recount your history as I remember it? I'm really trying to put something together here. As I recall, you are a pediatrician (Is this right?) so a medical professional. When you were in med school, you had a long affair and your husband (or were you married at this time?) took you back, but held the affair over you and used it to manipulate you for a long time. It came to a head when he apparently took you seriously about seeing him with another woman and got a happy ending at a Chinese massage - I'm just guessing whether he took you seriously or whether he was manipulating you or what was going on in his mind. You left for a while, and when you came back to him, that is the first time I can remember from your history that he had erectile dysfunction. If he had it earlier, I don't remember you saying it. Some told you he just had stress and that can cause erectile problems, but he still needed relief and so he was able to have an orgasm even though he could not have an erection. Hopefully, I have all of this remembered correctly.

My first question is: When in all of this did the erectile problems come in? Was it when I just when you returned? or had it happened any time before? Has he ever had erectile problems in stressful periods before? It sounds like the two of you have been through enough stressful periods together that you would know.

Does he have high blood pressure? or ANYTHING like that which could cause problems. You say you know his lab reports, but has he been checked specifically for erectile problems - going to a Dr. specifically to discuss that? Have you talked to him about his level of stress.

Now, I'm going to try to empathize although as I shared with you on another thread, I have never had erectile problems. In fact, the closest I have ever come is that I've had a time or two in recent years when I could not orgasm during sex. Whether I was tired or we had had sex too much lately, or I was stressed - I can't remember, and it's not the biggest key to what I'm thinking when I try to empathise. I actually did not mind not being able to have an orgasm since I enjoyed the sex anyway, but it seemed a huge concern for my wife. I wanted to do it for her, really.

Having a sexual malfunction can be a HUGE shock to the confidence. My wife is fantastic with me, and I'm sure she understood, but it still shakes the confidence. If you're really unsure the next time, it's difficult to try. The reasons range from extreme embarassment at not being able to perform to having to think that you may be declining physically to the point that sex may not be what you've come to enjoy in the past. Neither of those are happy thoughts, and neither of them encourages you to approach sex with your wife confidently. I would think that an erectile problem would be much harder to deal with than just not being able to orgasm because in such a case, you can't even make your wife feel good, and you're sure she is going to be frustrated. Her frustration is only going to make it harder to be in the mood or have an erection.

If he has had malfunction and it has shaken his confidence, or if he has any reason to think you are going to be frustrated with him, I can imagine it would be nearly impossible for him to find the confidence to approach you for sex, or even get in the mood for sex with you. Think from his viewpoint, what if he tries and just can't? How will his wife react? Maybe it's easier to turn her down than to face that? It's easier to not try than to try your best, fail, then have to face someone else's disappointment?

He needs something to break the cycle. Whether it is physical or emotional - the result is the same in your sex life. Doing the same thing over and over is only going to get you the same result. I think you're going to have to do something that is going to get his confidence back, and possibly get his physical ability back. I don't think any words are going to do that. I think he's going to need to talk to a doctor specifically about this problem and get something that will help him physically (if his problem is physical) or at least give him confidence that he can perform for you. 

It sounds like you two have been through a lot in your relationship, and a lot of the stress is very recent. If he is contrite, then it sounds like he has MANY times to remember when he thinks he should have treated you differently, and if it is all coming down on him now, then sexual malfunctions only add to the other stresses he has in thinking of how he could have or should have done things differently. I could be completely wrong about motivations along the way, but whatever those motivations, I think something has to be changed to give him his physical and/or emotional abilities back and a trip to the Dr. and treatment may be the key to either.

I wish you the best. It sounds like you are sincere in repairing things. It sounds like he may be sincere, too, but may need some help.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Haha, thanks for the summary. The story is ver long so I try not to repeat myself. Mostly it sounds right, except my H is too practical to be manipulative intentionally...he gave me countless other problems of course. 
This "ED at times" had been a problem before. How far back is hard to say...but many years ago. My marriage has been thru a tremendous amount. Besides all the stuff mentioned here, I had infertility issues and went thru hell for my second kid. Thank God he is here, but thru affair, first kid, trying for second kid, job, H being sarcastic, sometimes I don't even remember how the sex life was. I do know that he would sometimes not have an erection but still made me do BJ because he said "it has to be released", and that is what I don't understand. If u can't even get it hard,,,but u still have to come,,,it just does not make intuitive sense to me. I can actually understand the other way better, a man can be hard, have good sex with wife, and not orgasm--that means u can have more fun later!
I guess he can talk to his doc, but she'll probably say "oh just stress", hopefully she won't say it's stress from being married to me (we all know one another in the doc world). But it does bother me,,,just this afternoon he got it then lost it. I relieved him again with hand, but I was like man...and now I don't even want to initiate anything for next several days. And in 3 days big son will be home from spring break, I will bet u nothing can even happen for 2 weeks. 
I did find some relief...I burnt 200 kcal on the elliptical. Feel a little better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

jennifer1986 said:


> ...
> 
> I do know that he would sometimes not have an erection but still made me do BJ because he said "it has to be released", and that is what I don't understand. If u can't even get it hard,,,but u still have to come,,,it just does not make intuitive sense to me. I can actually understand the other way better, a man can be hard, have good sex with wife, and not orgasm--that means u can have more fun later!
> I guess he can talk to his doc, but she'll probably say "oh just stress", hopefully she won't say it's stress from being married to me (we all know one another in the doc world). But it does bother me,,,just this afternoon he got it then lost it. I relieved him again with hand, but I was like man...and now I don't even want to initiate anything for next several days. And in 3 days big son will be home from spring break, I will bet u nothing can even happen for 2 weeks.
> ...


I realize I'm talking to a doctor, so I doubt any of this is new, with the possible exception of hearing this expressed from a man's point of view since we tend to not talk about these things in much detail, but the part about having an orgasm without having an erection is really what makes me think this is something that can only be changed with medical help. I think this is true even if it is just stress that causes him the erectile problems. My thinking goes like this:

An erection is not a voluntary process. I cannot just think I want to have an erection and make it happen. I likewise cannot just decide to not have an erection and make that happen. Most men have had times when they had an erection at a very inconvenient moment. If it was voluntary, that would never happen to us.

What we do is learn how our body reacts to different things, and this is what we do to prepare for sex. I'm a little older than you or your husband (not by much  ). When I was younger, all I needed was to see my wife naked and I could begin to get an erection. Now, that's not normally enough even though I REALLY like to see my wife naked (unless I've been away from home for a few days, then it may be enough), but touching, smelling, or kissing with intent to move to sex is usually enough for me. Still, there may be times when it isn't - they're rare, though. The one sure fire, never fail for me is to give my wife oral sex. I couldn't prevent an erection when I do that if I tied a rubber band around my penis. It is completely involuntary. The voluntary part is doing what I need to do to bring on the erection.

If my wife began giving me a bj, I would be in about the same place. In fact, sometimes she will begin giving me oral to bring me from a more flaccid state to an erection - it's never failed. Just like above, I could not prevent myself from having an erection if I tied something around my penis. It happens completely involuntarily.

I can understand the need to release, and if I couldn't have an orgasm for several days, I would begin to feel a lot of pressure, and would need to release. There is no way that I, with everything functioning normally, could get that release without having an erection. It just couldn't happen for me, even if I was concentrating hard and trying to make it happen like that. It's that involuntary erection thing again - I could not reach orgasm without that erection involuntarily happening first.

If he needs the release, I can understand that. If he cannot have an erection even before reaching orgasm, then there is something going on there that he cannot control. 

My thinking is that it embarasses the heck out of him. He knows you will be frustrated if he tries and can't, he thinks he can't, but sometimes, he desperately needs a release. I'm sure it makes him seem selfish, and he may even feel like he's being selfish - I can't speak from inside his skin. I imagine if he is fearful that he can't perform, then the confidence he needs to even try to have intercourse with you is pretty much shattered. And without that confidence, how can he try?

All of this is why I really think he needs to see a doctor specifically about the erectile problems. I don't think he's going to be able to get past it without some help. If it is physical, then maybe the Cialis will give him his ability back and with his ability, he can get his confidence back. If it is just stress or emotional, then he still has a problem, and maybe something like the Cialis helps him get back the confidence he needs, but remember I'm not a doctor when I say that. I think the one thing that is for sure is that if you continue just doing things the way you have been, you're going to continue to get the results you have been getting.


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