# Tried to discuss sexless marriage and now she hates me.



## ZEUS1984 (10 mo ago)

So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived. At that point she said she doesn't want the sex life to stop as that's what keeps us close. We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. I was understanding. I tried to talk about it and she explained that she didn't feel like herself body wise etc and were so tired. Then we started having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months at most for about the next 12 months. Then the next 12 months we would have sex probably once a month in the small window she had some libido when ovulating. It was always great and she would always say 'why aren't we doing this more often'. Ideally I would have liked it more, but at least it was something. She discovered she was going through a slightly early menopause and started HRT. There has been no sex for 7 months.

Whenever I have tried to initiate it, or hint at it or make a lighthearted joke I'm just rebuffed and I end up feeling completely rejected and down. There have been occasions where she has pretty much said she was going to do something for me that evening, then when we've got to bed it's never mentioned again and I'm left frustrated and rejected again to the point I gave up trying or talking about as I felt guilty for saying that I want to touch her or do anything remotely intimate with my wife.

When we get into bed of an evening she doesn't even want to cuddle and just gets straight on her phone looking at Instagram until past midnight. So I tend to get into bed kiss her goodnight and just go to sleep as she is absolved with her phone and if I try to cuddle or spoon I get turned on, and ultimately rejected.

All through our relationship she has said if there is any issue we need to talk it through and that communication is vital and she is always talkng about how things make her feel and how other people make her feel. So last night after a rare getting my hopes up and rejection I said that I wanted to talk about something but that I didn't want it to turn into am argument and said that I was starting to find the lack of sex life difficult. I told her how it made me feel and how intimacy is important and that I wanted to understand her feelings.
She started off quite understanding, explaining how she thinks she might need to take some testosterone as she has zero libido at all. I said I understand and suggested that even just every once in a while could she maybe would be able to do something just for me. But that I didn't want her to do anything she didn't want to. I told her that when we get to bed I get frightened to cuddle her and that I understand and can wait it out and that as hard as I find it I would never ever cheat.

She then went cold and turned her back on me. Today she hates me. Aggressively barracked me for saying that I don't want to kiss or hug her and bringing up cheating and pretty much justifying that it was ok for men to do that, but that I wouldn't. She completely twisted everything I had said and used it against me saying she is always made to feel that she is what's wrong with all her relationships and that she is always the one that has to fix herself to make the relationship work, stormed off crying and won't talk to me, won't hear me and doesn't want to discuss it any longer. I've gone from doing what I thought was the right thing and talking about it to thinking my marriage is doomed! Any advice please?


----------



## D0nnivain (Mar 13, 2021)

It sounds like you tried to open the lines of communicate. Ask her what she thinks the solution is & why she thinks it's OK to condemn you to a life of celebacy.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would suggest some MC. Something has to change here. Not ' feeling' like sex is no excuse either. We can have sex because we love the other person and care about our marriage.
It may help to write down exactly how you feel and tell her that you can't carry on this way.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Erm… Hold the door like Hodor. She’s trying to blow you off and reset things back to how they were and you need to prevent that.

Despite all the waterworks and other nonsense your request is quite reasonable and she needs to figure out if she wants to try and meet it. No is fine, but then you also need to make sure she understands that route will ultimately lead to divorce.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

This is not going to fixed with conversation or with giving you a handjob now and then. 

This will require professional evaluation and treatment/therapy. 

She needs a thorough medical evaluation and blood work to evaluate her hormonal levels and possible treatments. 

And you two will need professional marital counseling and possible sex therapy to deal with the relationship issues and how to effectively communicate each of your wants and needs and boundaries etc. 

The catch is it may something drastic for your wife to wake up to the seriousness of the situation before she takes it seriously and takes any definitive action. 

When we were in a very similar situation it two different marital counselors telling my wife she had a serious problem on her hands and that men leaving with a very real and very legitimate risk and that if she did not want to be a single mother with two young kids living on her own, she needed to get medical and psychological evaluations and address the issues immediately. 

Your situation actually sounds worse than what ours was.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Oh and I just have to say it - this is exactly why I got my plumbing disconnected. 

Never again.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Are you willing to possibly end the marriage over this issue? Could you live like this for another three years? Six? Twelve? Twenty?

Please think carefully before answering this as it has everything to do with how to best advise you. 

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


----------



## ZEUS1984 (10 mo ago)

farsidejunky said:


> Are you willing to possibly end the marriage over this issue? Could you live like this for another three years? Six? Twelve? Twenty?
> 
> Please think carefully before answering this as it has everything to do with how to best advise you.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


If she tries, and takes the steps she is talking about regarding trying to rectify it, then yes, although maybe not indefinite. It was as much her reaction to it the next day that has troubled me. I know the hormone replacement thing is true. I'm certain she is not having an affair. I believe that she genuinely has no libido. I think it's more the fact that she has made zero effort to recognise and help me with my own needs that gets me. I've tried to be so understanding of her feelings yet she doesn't whilst she claims to be understanding of mine she has made no attempt to try and compensate. I mean I do things that I don't really want to do every now and then for the sake of our relationship or because I realize its important to them. So who's being selfish here, me for occasionally wanting intimacy in our marriage or her for believing that if she never wants to I have to just deal with it and pretend it's not an issue?


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Honestly, it sounds like she keyed on on your comment about cheating to make you the bad guy and justify not making any efforts or changes. I would be really hurt too if my husband basically said “I ought to cheat on you but I’m such a great guy that I won’t.” But the truth is, you wouldn’t have made that threat without a reason. Instead of pouting I’d have walked away from the marriage entirely, BUT I’m also not to type to withhold sex for extended periods of time for no reason. Threats are rarely going to be well received, but neither will extended periods of selfishness. She’s in the wrong here and grasping at straws to keep from owning her part in this mess.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

In the end she will likely mention all the things she could try and that the two of you should do …….. and then she will do none of it.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ZEUS1984 said:


> If she tries, and takes the steps she is talking about regarding trying to rectify it, then yes, although maybe not indefinite. It was as much her reaction to it the next day that has troubled me. I know the hormone replacement thing is true. I'm certain she is not having an affair. I believe that she genuinely has no libido. I think it's more the fact that she has made zero effort to recognise and help me with my own needs that gets me. I've tried to be so understanding of her feelings yet she doesn't whilst she claims to be understanding of mine she has made no attempt to try and compensate. I mean I do things that I don't really want to do every now and then for the sake of our relationship or because I realize its important to them. So who's being selfish here, me for occasionally wanting intimacy in our marriage or her for believing that if she never wants to I have to just deal with it and pretend it's not an issue?


Of course she is being selfish. Good on you for recognizing such. She is not only being selfish, but she is shaming you for bringing this to her attention, which is a form of gaslighting. She is framing your want to have your needs recognized in the relationship seem crazy or unreasonable. Bovine excrement.

The first thing you should do is stop trying to make it better. You have done your part. She is the one being unreasonable, and any further attempts to fix this will simply reinforce her unreasonable stance that she is right.

The next thing you should do is stop doing some or all of the things you would normally do for her; no listening to her vent about her day, no squishing spiders, no calling to check on her, no prioritizing her phone calls when she calls you while you are busy, no foot rubs/massages, no opening the pickle jar (unless it is for your child)...etc, etc. Continue to meet 100% of your obligations for your kid, but zero for her. Be out more. Find a hobby and pursue it instead of spending time with her.

It may take some time for her to get angry, or it could happen the first time you tell her "I don't really feel like it". When she complains about what you aren't doing for her, make a simple statement:

"If you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

Then walk away and do something you want to do, without regard to her. If she escalates it further, here is another statement:

"This is what rejection feels like. See if you can accept as gracefully as you expect me to."

What you are effectively doing is mirroring her treatment of you back at her. A lot of people like to poo poo this as tit-for-tat, and they are welcome to their opinions, but they are often the ones that will also tell you to continue to submit to your wife's needs when she is unwilling to do the same for you. I see it as reducing my investment in someone who is unwilling to invest in me, and using that to reduce my overall resentment, while simultaneously testing her commitment to the marriage. This is commonly known on TAM as reducing the thermostat of the relationship.

She will likely say this is all about sex; more shaming.

"If this were all about sex, I would have left over two years ago. As I have said, when you want more from me, you can start by doing more for me."

What this process does is accelerate this problem to it's logical conclusion at a faster pace. As long as you do not back down, this will result in a few different results:

1. She will come to you and ask what it will take to get things right again. This is your opportunity to tell her that while you don't expect a miracle fix of the marital intimacy, you do expect her to take steps to find out what exactly is going on with her. If her actions don't match her words, go right back to lowering the thermostat.

2. She will accept lesser treatment from you, but will likely ratchet up her gaslighting. In this case, you have little choice but to leave her.

3. She will accept lesser treatment of you with resignation. Again, if this happens, your relationship is over.

Here is the thing, dude. Your relationship has been dying due to her lack of investment. In other words, you have been performing relationship CPR for the last three years, while she has done little. Then, when you asked her to take over compressions because you were frustrated, she told you "no". Lowering the thermostat is telling her, through actions rather than words, that she can now do compressions or the relationship will die.

Lastly...and most importantly...if you are truly not willing to leave the relationship without improvement, don't even bother. None of this matters if you are bluffing, because our wives can smell our ******** a mile away. In the same way you will be evaluating her based on her actions, she will be simultaneously doing the same to you.

Most people who come to this site lack the stones to follow this path. And make no mistake, I am not telling you this will definitively save your marriage. What I am telling you is that this path will give you the right answer for what path you need to follow...divorce, or a marriage worth keeping. I will also say that it saved my marriage and restored our sex life, but that process took nearly 18 months. Most people also lack the patience and the fortitude to see something through that takes that long.


----------



## ZEUS1984 (10 mo ago)

Thanks for the honesty. Yeah I'm not sure what I actually said portrayed what I was indeed trying to communicate. I was actually trying to re-assure her with that statement believe it or not. I didn't mean that I ought to or deserve to cheat on her, I actually meant it to mean that I understand and I'm not going to go out and start looking elsewhere - as hard as I am finding it living in a sexless marriage. My attempted expanation just fell on deaf ears. I mean back when we were only having occasional sex she had a whole drawer full of sex toys that I new she was using. In our conversation last night she insisted that she 'doesn't even dip into them anymore'.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Don't worry about her response to what you said. Her emotions and feelings are hers to own...don't let her guilt you into accepting responsibility for them.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Moving to Sex In Marriage section.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

yes, your marriage is doomed.


----------



## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Take away your time and attention and stop doing things for her as well.


----------



## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

ZEUS1984 said:


> I mean back when we were only having occasional sex she had a whole drawer full of sex toys that I new she was using


She masturbates but doesn't have sex with you. This means she had a sex drive...just not for you.


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

_The wheels on the bus go round and round._.......

You did nothing wrong.....you said nothing wrong....Don't let her pull that crap...its what 3rd graders do...

The problem is I doubt this will get any better....For the simple reason is people that recognize a problem or pick up on a situation(she had to know this was bothering you, as it would bother anyone) actually take action on their own and address it....She is rug sweeping and blowing you off,,,,If she cared she would do something about it...if she wasn't happy with her body image shed work to change it...she didn't do anything...

What will likely happen is you will either eventually crack, (most guys do), and if you were the type of guy that attracted a lot of female attention, maybe you would have already..despite what you think you would do and how virtuous you are...Seen it numerous times.. Maybe you would be the one that doesn't but that isn't the case with a lot of guys..

Or, you will just settle in, not wanting to blow your life up or mess your kids up with a split, and just masturbate your life away, while she is content with the status quo,,....Then she'll shame the hell out of you for that as well....And call you a porn addict....Having fun yet??

I mean, sure, seek counseling, twist her arm to take meds she probably doesn't want, maybe...and I mean maybe, you get a life of infrequent and scheduled duty/starfish sex where she is basically laying there and hopes you get done as soon as possible so she can shower and get back to talking about whatever crap they do on IG....That may be enough for you, but a lot of guys don't really want that and I wouldn't...that's for sure...

I wish you well...Hang around here enough and you will quickly discover that your problem isn't really unique...if that makes you feel any better...


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Hang around here enough and you will quickly discover that your problem isn't really unique...if that makes you feel any better...


This. It is a common problem and unfortunately the solution is simple to say and hard (for most) to execute.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

ZEUS1984 said:


> Thanks for the honesty. Yeah I'm not sure what I actually said portrayed what I was indeed trying to communicate. I was actually trying to re-assure her with that statement believe it or not. I didn't mean that I ought to or deserve to cheat on her, I actually meant it to mean that I understand and I'm not going to go out and start looking elsewhere - as hard as I am finding it living in a sexless marriage. My attempted expanation just fell on deaf ears. I mean back when we were only having occasional sex she had a whole drawer full of sex toys that I new she was using. In our conversation last night she insisted that she 'doesn't even dip into them anymore'.


What you said above is a laser focus on a pin point. What you need to do is take a huge step back and review your situation from top down at a thousand yards out. 

Read the reply from far side junky and then read it again…. And again.

People like yourself come here constantly… and when I say constantly… I mean it. Every single day. Just like most of those guys you are talking about an event or occurrence and discuss why you were doing that and you focus in on individual events. You need to reevaluate your ENTIRE view of relationship dynamics. I’m not just talking about sex. You need to change YOUR ENTIRE MINDSET.

Did I mention you should read what far side junky wrote?

I’m going to cut it short and tell you what will most likely happen…. You won’t do what he says and you will be back here in 4 years saying exactly the same.

You must be willing to make everyone very uncomfortable and stick it out while you reset your relationship dynamics. By the end you will both be a lot better off. 

If you fake it she will demolish you.


----------



## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Get into her Instagram account and look at search history, DMs, and her connections. Something may be occupying her sexual interest online at your expense.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She is trying to strong arm you. I suspect there is more to her lack of sexual desire then you know. Stick to your guns. Push for marriage counseling. Do not be weak. Do not play into her emotions. Be rational and pointed in your conversation, cold and logical.


----------



## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

I like the @farsidejunky recommendation, but you have to be willing to leave. If you are one who believes that a child needs both parents in his life, then I would approach it by telling the wife that you are committed to staying in the marriage to raise your son, but you will not live your life without sex. Then you let her choose how you will go about that. Her choices are, 1. you openly masturbate to porn. You do so, in bed, lying next to her while she is on her phone. 2. You routinely visit prostitutes. 3. You take a mistress. Again, it's her choice. Then, when the child turns 18, you are gone.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

ZEUS1984 said:


> So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived.
> 
> .............. She discovered she was going through a slightly early menopause and started HRT. There has been no sex for 7 months.
> 
> ...





ZEUS1984 said:


> ...... I think it's more the fact that she has made zero effort to recognise and help me with my own needs that gets me.
> *I've tried to be so understanding of her feelings yet she doesn't whilst she claims to be understanding of mine she has made no attempt to try and compensate.*





ZEUS1984 said:


> ........I'm not going to go out and start looking elsewhere - as hard as I am finding it living in a sexless marriage. *My attempted explanation just fell on deaf ears. *I mean back when we were only having occasional sex she had a whole *drawer full of sex toys that I new she was using*. In our conversation last night *she insisted that she 'doesn't even dip into them anymore*'.


My heart goes out to you. Been there and done that.

I was in a sex starved marriage, but with the help of a great Sex Therapist and a willing wife, we rebuilt our marriage.

Let me share my view on those things I have taken from your posts.

You seem to be a really NICE GUY. By the way, that is not a complement. Dr. Glover in his book No More Mr. Nice Guy defines a term "Nice Guy" to mean a man who is codependent upon his wife, who is clingy for sex, who does what are called covert contracts, whose self worth is defined by his wife and who was raised to seek approval of women (either a strong mother, babysitters, teachers, etc.) You told her she had nothing to worry about you ever cheating on her, you told her how dependent you were on her. She knows you are a Nice Guy, even if she hasn't seen it defined.

The opposite of a Nice Guy is not becoming a jerk, but becoming an integrated man who has a life and who is proud of his accomplishments. A man who is enjoys his wife, but has independence. I strongly suggest you get that book and study it. I would also suggest you get the book by MW Davis, the Sex Starved Marriage. You will find out what you are facing is not unique. And in both books you will get suggestions on how to turn you life around for the better. At least that is what happened to me in my sex starved marriage.

Now let's go back to what you posted. She knows she is going through early menopause and could benefit from HRT. That is wonderful and a huge step forward. So you and your wife have jointly identified one of probably several problems in your marriage.

For several years rather than dealing with the problem you have been enabling your wife to avoid dealing with a serious marriage problem. Yes, you should not have let things go so long before you confronted them. *As you said you gave up trying to talk about it*. You may feel that you were being considerate, but you were enabling destructive behavior to become a pattern. You need to learn from that lesson, so that if you reconcile with your wife it never happens again, or if you divorce her and find another woman you never let this happen again. Either way, learn from your mistake.

As to your discussion with your wife, have you ever hear the term "emotional flooding?" When something really frightens you, your adrenaline levels soar and you go into a flight or fright mode. It also causes you to not be able to hold a rational conversation. One needs to call a time out to allow the adrenaline levels to drop before you can talk.

You probably scared your wife to her core and she probably emotionally flooded. She probably only hear a fraction of what you said. She probably fixed on the thought of you cheating and she probably felt intense shame for the pain she caused you. Those are things she should address, but she isn't use to addressing issues with you as you have been so "considerate and understanding of her feelings."

Because of her use of sex toys and not having sex with you, I would guess that before she totally lost her libido, she was angry with you. She probably didn't say it. She probably just withdrew emotionally from the relationship and focused on your child. Hey, as you said, you withdrew from trying to initiate, so you too withdrew in your own way.

The above is based on what I learned in my sex starved marriage. I may be totally wrong, but I bet I am not. What helped me was to first change myself. I studied MW Davis book, the Sex Starved Marriage and Glover's Book NMMNG. I worked at Getting a Life, which is described in both books. I then through the help of Chapman's book the 5 Languages of Love, did things in my wife's love languages that started to make her feel loved and cherished. I also did some 180's until I found some that worked. She still hated me, was withdrawn from the marriage and did not want to have sex with me, but she didn't want to lose those feeling of being loved. It required me to forgive her and provide her with as much love as possible, with no covert contracts.

A covert contract is where in your mind you make a deal and don't tell her what it is and are crushed when she doesn't live up to her part of the deal. For example, you tell yourself that yourself that the reason you wife isn't making love to you is because she is so tired doing housework, so you start doing housework (laundry, dishes, vacuuming, etc.). In her mind, you are just starting to do your share of the choirs that she has been doing for years and it is about time. She still isn't thrilled with you so rewarding you with sex is not even a consideration. You on the other hand have done your part of the contract and she hasn't responded as she "should." You get angry and in Nice Guy fashion figure out more to do, to better get her attention. And you get even more angry when she doesn't respond as you had hoped.

In this phase of the reconciliation, I had to give my wife unconditional love, but also focus on my life and rebuilding my independence and self confidence. I restarted hobbies I gave up early in my marriage. I took up endurance long distance running, mountain climbing, shooting, and other things. I was changing in front of my wife and she could see it. I was no longer as codependent. I didn't need her approval to validate my sense of worth. I lost weight, looked better, was more independent. I was no longer depending on my wife and she could not control me and that thought of divorce was no longer as frightening.

I would advise you to involve your son in some of your Get a Life activities. If you run, depending on his age, either get a jogging stroller, or start walking and jogging with him. There are lots of 5k charity runs where kids can participate with their parents and you can either take a stroller, do a combination of walking and jogging with your child. Similarly, bicycling would be a good way to do "Get a Life" things with you child. The point is in gaining independence, don't loose touch with your children, increase the bond.

My wife started to see the changes in me and see I was no longer as dependent upon her. That is when I approached her about seeing a doctor to to have her hormone levels checked and that we needed to do marriage counseling with a sex therapist. Sex therapists are marriage counselors with extra training in couples and people with sexual problems. They have lots of skills in dealing with this kind of situation as it is not that uncommon. 

At first she told me she didn't want to as she was not "broken" and didn't need to be fixed. I quoted something from Dr. David Schnarch's books. I told her that in marriage everything needs to be negotiated and that there is no right or wrong number of anything. For example, there is no right amount of children in a marriage. There is no right amount of chocolate ice cream after dinner. There is no right or wrong amount of watching football on TV. These are all things that are negotiated in healthy marriages. And there is no right amount of sex either. A marriage counselor or especially a sex therapist can help a couple with that negotiation so they can reach a compromise that both can live with. She agreed to go to a Sex Therapist, but insisted that there was nothing wrong with her, she was fine and that I would find out I was the one with the problem.

We found a really great sex therapist who helped us in many ways. Ultimately, my wife needed to forgive me for what she felt was my emotionally checking out of the marriage and not doing my share of things when she was a young mother. That was very hard for her to do, and the ST helped her understand the source of her feelings and anger. My wife also had to unlearn all kinds of bad habits and change the way she approached me and our marriage. The ST gave us lots to read, study and even homework. The Sensate Focus exercises helped a lot and allowed my wife to again enjoy touch and ultimately sex. The ST helped with suggestions on ways to schedule sex and things to do to make us both feel loved and cherished.

Good luck. Work on yourself, get a life, stop being a Nice Guy, and work with a sex therapist. If you wife can forgive you and still loves you, then you both might get the marriage you want.


----------



## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

I wrote a book you may be interested in: *The Dead Bedroom Fix. *In the book, I talk about the "Five Mistakes", one of which is what we called the dreaded "Talk". It doesn't work. There's also something we call, "The Healthy Version of the Talk"... but you're nowhere ready for that, amigo. One baby step at a time.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ZEUS1984 said:


> So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived. At that point she said she doesn't want the sex life to stop as that's what keeps us close. We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. I was understanding. I tried to talk about it and she explained that she didn't feel like herself body wise etc and were so tired. Then we started having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months at most for about the next 12 months. Then the next 12 months we would have sex probably once a month in the small window she had some libido when ovulating. It was always great and she would always say 'why aren't we doing this more often'. Ideally I would have liked it more, but at least it was something. She discovered she was going through a slightly early menopause and started HRT. There has been no sex for 7 months.
> 
> Whenever I have tried to initiate it, or hint at it or make a lighthearted joke I'm just rebuffed and I end up feeling completely rejected and down. There have been occasions where she has pretty much said she was going to do something for me that evening, then when we've got to bed it's never mentioned again and I'm left frustrated and rejected again to the point I gave up trying or talking about as I felt guilty for saying that I want to touch her or do anything remotely intimate with my wife.
> 
> ...


Well you shouldn't have asked her to do something for you anyway whether she feels like it or not, because I don't know if you can imagine how that makes a woman feel. But she needs to be getting back in and doing another hormone panel and seeing what can be done about it. 

To her, how she feels and her sex drive is just as normal as how you feel about your sex drive and that's what those comments about why the woman gets blamed. Men nearly always want more sex than women. That's nothing new. 

But yes she needs to be seen the doctor and seeing if a hormone adjustment can help and I would advise she does not go to her obstetrician for that. My primary care doctor told me don't ever go to the obstetrician for hormone therapy because that is not their specialty. She needs to get on Google and find herself a hormone therapist gynecologist who actually advertises that he or she does that. 

It is not even safe for her to be on estrogen without testosterone is what I've been told and that is nothing new either. So I think she needs to see someone different, a hormone therapy specialist, most importantly not an obstetrician. 

You might check in your area and see if anyone is advertising that they do bioidentical hormone therapy. That is more high-end but carries less risk and is more specific to your needs supposedly. 

I don't know how asking your wife to do duty sex is going to help your State of mind anyway because of its not something she wants then it doesn't really mean anything except a release, and frankly there are easier ways to get releases than having a reluctant woman do it. 

So I'm just giving you one woman's view on that. In her mind there's nothing any more wrong with her than there is you. But yes sex has dropped off too far and it sounds like she has physical problems and it also sounds like she has young ones and that pretty much always kills sex for people. Imagine already having someone tugging on you 24 hours a day.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> Erm… Hold the door like Hodor. She’s trying to blow you off and reset things back to how they were and you need to prevent that.
> 
> Despite all the waterworks and other nonsense your request is quite reasonable and she needs to figure out if she wants to try and meet it. No is fine, but then you also need to make sure she understands that route will ultimately lead to divorce.


This exactly. She's willing to talk, but having consequences for her actions is unacceptable to her.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

There is a saying "the best defense is a good offence". Translated to this situation means that you put her on defence by calling out her reluctance to intimacy. Intimacy that everyone knows innately is key to the marriage bond. She knows that. So she instinctively went on offense by throwing a fit and accusing you of being the bad guy. Now I don't believe she thinks her behavior is really acceptable. 

Theoretical example. If my wife catches me in a lie, I can either admit it, apologize and eat crow and the balance of power goes to her. Or, I can throw a fit and tell her its her behavior and her unreasonable smothering that caused me to lie.

But by doing that I'm not only lying to her, I'm lying to myself. Get it? She's lying to herself. She knows.
But too proud, selfish and disinclined to face the uncomfortable truth.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> My heart goes out to you. Been there and done that.
> 
> I was in a sex starved marriage, but with the help of a great Sex Therapist and a willing wife, we rebuilt our marriage.
> 
> ...


man, that's 1,500 words...


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> This. It is a common problem and unfortunately the solution is simple to say and hard (for most) to execute.


No doubt. 

It's like putting a rat in a maze where no matter what he does or how hard he works never gets the cheese. His only option is to jump out of the thing and hope he doesn't die from the fall or there isn't a cat waiting..lol.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> This is not going to fixed with conversation or with giving you a handjob now and then.


As Terry on Reno 911 says, "A handjob is still a job." 😂


----------



## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

ZEUS1984 said:


> So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived. At that point she said she doesn't want the sex life to stop as that's what keeps us close. We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. I was understanding. I tried to talk about it and she explained that she didn't feel like herself body wise etc and were so tired. Then we started having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months at most for about the next 12 months. Then the next 12 months we would have sex probably once a month in the small window she had some libido when ovulating. It was always great and she would always say 'why aren't we doing this more often'. Ideally I would have liked it more, but at least it was something. She discovered she was going through a slightly early menopause and started HRT. There has been no sex for 7 months.
> 
> Whenever I have tried to initiate it, or hint at it or make a lighthearted joke I'm just rebuffed and I end up feeling completely rejected and down. There have been occasions where she has pretty much said she was going to do something for me that evening, then when we've got to bed it's never mentioned again and I'm left frustrated and rejected again to the point I gave up trying or talking about as I felt guilty for saying that I want to touch her or do anything remotely intimate with my wife.
> 
> ...


My wife being on her phone in bed at night would be a no go for me. I would hard stop that real quick if I were you. It's disrespectful to you and your marriage. If you are frightened to cuddle her, that's a bigger issue than the sexless marriage.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

you are somewhat lucky, there is no choice to be made. there is no sex, and she openly admits she hates you! so divorce her as quickly as possible, and move on. end of story.
she is totally non-recoverable. Any effort you waste on her will be useless at this point.

she pretended to love you only because she wanted a kid.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Talker67 said:


> you are somewhat lucky, there is no choice to be made. there is no sex, and she openly admits she hates you! so divorce her as quickly as possible, and move on. end of story.
> she is totally non-recoverable. Any effort you waste on her will be useless at this point.
> 
> she pretended to love you only because she wanted a kid.


I absolutely agree. And a guy to pay for the kid most likely


----------



## unheld (Sep 20, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Oh and I just have to say it - this is exactly why I got my plumbing disconnected.
> 
> Never again.


wtf? are you a licensed professional?


----------



## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

ZEUS1984 said:


> ...she is always made to feel that she is what's wrong with all her relationships and that she is always the one that has to fix herself to make the relationship work...


Um... yeah. When several people tell you the sky is blue, maybe it's time to consider that it might be blue.

I think you struck a nerve, because she recognizes at some level that she really is the root cause. Her response was to feign anger in order to manipulate you into surrendering. Don't fall for it. Stick to your guns. 

Your expectations are entirely reasonable and she needs to understand that you are starting to view the whole marriage as a disaster and a sham.


----------



## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

_We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. _ 

Are you certain your wife isn't asexual or lesbian? That you weren't lured into commitment for the purpose of providing stability and a child? 

_Whenever I have tried to initiate it, or hint at it or make a lighthearted joke I'm just rebuffed and I end up feeling completely rejected and down. There have been occasions where she has pretty much said she was going to do something for me that evening, then when we've got to bed it's never mentioned again and I'm left frustrated and rejected again to the point I gave up trying or talking about as I felt guilty for saying that I want to touch her or do anything remotely intimate with my wife. _

Some choose to use sex as a tool and a control mechanism. Now that she has what she wants she feels no need to give you what you want. 

_When we get into bed of an evening she doesn't even want to cuddle and just gets straight on her phone looking at Instagram until past midnight. _

Not all affairs are physical. Perhaps she is engaging in an emotional affair if she hasn't had the opportunity to indulge in the physical aspect. Do you have access to her phone or the phone account? If she guards her phone you should be concerned. Likely you would find many if not all your answers on the device.

You are in a tough situation. Her extreme resistance and coldness toward you do not suggest resolution is possible. Give serious consideration to parting ways if she is unwilling to work with you towards mutual resolution.


----------



## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

I have been warning my spouse for months that not having sex is NOT OKAY. I am a woman - and this kind of thing happens to women as well as men. Conversation after conversation and nothing changes. I finally warned him for the last time last night. No sex in a marriage means there is something wrong - and either you have a conversation about what is going on there - or you leave that relationship open to vulnerabilities of the relationship failing. 

Not having sex with your partner - aside from for health reasons - and expecting your partner to just go without, is nothing short of cruelty.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

happiness27 said:


> No sex in a marriage means there is something wrong…


💯 real!


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> 💯 real!


And by that point the marriage is already over


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

happiness27 said:


> Not having sex with your partner - aside from for health reasons - and expecting your partner to just go without, is nothing short of cruelty.


I do not even recognize the health reasons exemption that many seem to ascribe to. I don't think health changes or conditions is just cause to reject and deny your partner. 

Ok yes, if someone is in a coma or vegatative state or have received some kind of traumatic brain injury or something or something that is one thing. 

And sure, there are conditions that may prevent actual PIV intercourse, but there are lots of other means of showing physical love and affection and providing pleasure and orgasm etc. 

Rejecting and denying your partner and not trying to accomidate them due to a physical or healthy ailment or condition without even trying to accommidate or trying alternative methods is no excuse IMHO.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Why was she saying that she was the one that had to change to save her relationships?

How many relationships does she have going on?


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I do not even recognize the health reasons exemption that many seem to ascribe to. I don't think health changes or conditions is just cause to reject and deny your partner.
> 
> Ok yes, if someone is in a coma or vegatative state or have received some kind of traumatic brain injury or something or something that is one thing.
> 
> ...


I guess you've never been really ill, OldShirt.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I guess you've never been really ill, OldShirt.


Does a heart attack count?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> Does a heart attack count?


"Looks at the judge"

Judge: I'll accept it


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Does a heart attack count?


So you want someone to still have sex with you as they're recovering from a heart attack? Really?


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So you want someone to still have sex with you as they're recovering from a heart attack? Really?


I think he was the one who had a heart attack


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> I think he was the one who had a heart attack


I know. That was my point. So just because he was still apparently horny after a heart attack, he thinks everyone else ought to either be horny too or do it anyway, no matter how ill they are or what they feel like?????? Well, all I can say is it's a good thing he doesn't get to make the rules.


----------



## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I know. That was my point. So just because he was still apparently horny after a heart attack, he thinks everyone else ought to either be horny too or do it anyway, no matter how ill they are or what they feel like?????? Well, all I can say is it's a good thing he doesn't get to make the rules.


If my partner had a heart attack they would get at least a weeks grace period


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Numb26 said:


> If my partner had a heart attack they would get at least a weeks grace period


OR however long they decided to take. Meanwhile, you can go lower an engine into one of those cars to work it off.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> So you want someone to still have sex with you as they're recovering from a heart attack? Really?


I was the one that had the heart attack. 

Let's at least try to be a little open minded here and not jump to a bunch of conclusions. 

I was the one that had the heart attack. Once I got home and I had my cardiologist's reccommendations on what I should or should not be doing, if my partner wanted some love and attention, I would do what I was able to do to provide that. I would not say, "oops sorry, had a heart attack, no more lovins for you!" 

Would that mean swinging from the chandeliers and having a 4 hour sexathon with wild abandon? Not necessarily but I would do what I was able and not reject or deny someone and tell them to ****** off. 

If my partner has some kind of healthy condition, that will also need to be accommidated and work within the parameters for which they are capable and comfortable with. 

People age. Our bodies change. People get sick. Our physical health statuses change. Does that mean that love and affection and sexuality come to an end because we're not perfectly healthy, physically fit 25 year olds anymore?? 

Let's be reasonable here. If someone is puking sick or has some kind of acute injury or illness, they're likely not going to be in the mood nor would their partner want to engage if their partner is acutely ill or miserable. 

But people's need for love and affection and pleasure and sexuality do not go out the window just because their health status has changed. Nor is their ability to provide love and affection and pleasure eliminated because they age or have had changes in their health status. 

Yes some conditions can preclude actual PIV, but that doesn't mean that love, affection and sexuality by necessity come to an end.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I know. That was my point. So just because he was still apparently horny after a heart attack, he thinks everyone else ought to either be horny too or do it anyway, no matter how ill they are or what they feel like?????? Well, all I can say is it's a good thing he doesn't get to make the rules.


Why all the hate?


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I was the one that had the heart attack.
> 
> Let's at least try to be a little open minded here and not jump to a bunch of conclusions.
> 
> ...


A lot of older folks are in pain a lot. They'ret ired a lot and just don't feel sexy a lot. But boy, when they do, they should go for it if they have a willing and able partner.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Why all the hate?


I feel the same way when you talk about how people should have sex whether they feel like it or not and whether they're sick or in pain or not just to make you happy. To me that is just cold-blooded.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Realistically, a person is only going to share sex with their spouse if they want to. If they don't feel up to it they won't. And, if my spouse isn't well. the last thing I am expecting is for her to share sex with me. I want her to rest and recover. We are older people, so sometimes takes us a little longer to "bounce back". Until then, the 'ball' is in the court of the person with the health problems, they decide when the time is right and the other does best to nurse them back to health.

I think what @oldshirt was alluding to related some to the OP in this thread. If a spouse is using health as an excuse, which will become obvious over time, then that is mistreating their spouse. It doesn't take a ton of energy to show affection to someone you love. As long as one of my hands is still working and am not in a coma, I have no excuse for not caressing my wife in many ways.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I feel the same way when you talk about how people should have sex whether they feel like it or not and whether they're sick or in pain or not just to make you happy. To me that is just cold-blooded.


Read what people are actually saying. 

I have NEVER once said in the years that I have been on here that people should do what they do not want to do and I have been a tireless, uncompromising proponent of people standing up for themselves and not be bullied, pressured, exploited or manipulated. 

YOU KNOW THAT. 

You have been here as long as I have and have seen many of my posts and you have never once EVER heard me say anything even remotely similar to what you said above. 

What I have said above and in similar threads where the topic of medical conditions has come up is that while medical conditions might impact someone's ability to have actual PIV, that does not automatically render them incapable of having a physically intimate relationship if they so desire.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ZEUS1984 said:


> Thanks for the honesty. Yeah I'm not sure what I actually said portrayed what I was indeed trying to communicate. I was actually trying to re-assure her with that statement believe it or not. I didn't mean that I ought to or deserve to cheat on her, I actually meant it to mean that I understand and I'm not going to go out and start looking elsewhere - as hard as I am finding it living in a sexless marriage. My attempted expanation just fell on deaf ears. I mean back when we were only having occasional sex she had a whole drawer full of sex toys that I new she was using. In our conversation last night she insisted that she 'doesn't even dip into them anymore'.


I understand why you said it. But I would 100% react the way your wife did. To her, cheating was never even in the equation, so for you to even mention it would be shocking, because it was clearly a thought in your mind if it came out of your mouth. 

I sympathize with your wife even though I don’t blame you and I think she needs to suck it up and do it more often. But just hearing about her hormone problems makes me feel tired tired for her, let alone having kids, and an unhappy husband and all the stressful things life has. 

This is not an excuse, but as a women we have the best intentions. We want to have a good sex life, we want to please our men etc. but sometimes when it comes to the moment, we are just exhausted, or whatever. 
The other problem is, sometimes we do it anyway, and we just can’t get wet. Sorry if this is TMI. But sometimes we can’t get wet and we have no control over that. Yea we can use lube, but it’s irritating and painful still. 



The other thing I want to mention, is some women have no idea what sex means to men. Even some of my girlfriends just don’t understand how mens brains work. This Ted talk video is my absolute favorite video for women to watch to try to understand the seriousness of sexless marriage. Maybe it would be worth showing her it.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I do not even recognize the health reasons exemption that many seem to ascribe to. I don't think health changes or conditions is just cause to reject and deny your partner.
> 
> Ok yes, if someone is in a coma or vegatative state or have received some kind of traumatic brain injury or something or something that is one thing.
> 
> ...


There are quite a few health reasons why sex is hard or impossible. I would certainly not want to force someone who feels really ill or is in pain to have sex.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> There are quite a few health reasons why sex is hard or impossible. I would certainly not want to force someone who feels really ill or is in pain to have sex.


Let's be reasonable and let's read what has actually been said. 

Neither I nor anyone else have said one single word about any kind of force or making anyone do something they do not want to do. 

Some conditions may preclude PIV, but PIV is but one activity out of a myriad of other loving, affectionate and sexually pleasurable activities. 

If someone wants to have physical intimacy, they can find a way to have physical intimacy within their ability. 

Which is kind of my point from the begining, if someone is rejecting and denying their partner, it is because they do not WANT to be intimate. If they did want to, they can find a way with whatever accomidations they may need.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Once I was in a relationship with a woman higher drive than me that I loved dearly.
I did not want sex as much as her, and several times I’d give her oral and she was happy, and I was happy because she was. Of course, she still complained that I didn’t have an erection when doing that, so she felt I didn’t like doing it. Not so, I was concentrating on doing my best work. 
My point is I agree with Oldshirt, if a oerson wants to please their partner, there are ways.
let’s face it, some people are in marriages of convenience and don’t really have any romantic feelings for their spouse, and that’s a shame. I think those types of marriages might be best ended, especially if the couple aren’t both happy.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> if someone is rejecting and denying their partner, it is because they do not WANT to be intimate.


This is correct. It's the only reason.

No amount of "help around the house" or any of those well-intentioned, but highly meaningless things will change anything.



Evinrude58 said:


> some people are in marriages of convenience and don’t really have any romantic feelings for their spouse


And many never did. It was 2.4 kids and a white picket fence they loved, and those who they desired sexually either couldn't, or refused to, provide them. So they married the guy who could, and would.

That's why we read so many stories of "mommy" forgetting all about being "wifey". Most of them won't do the HONEST and HONORABLE thing, and give the guy a free walk.

In the corollary, there are lots of "trophy wives" who are not really desired for a life-partner, only a "showoff" piece. It can be done by either males or females.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Evinrude58 said:


> Once I was in a relationship with a woman higher drive than me that I loved dearly.
> I did not want sex as much as her, and several times I’d give her oral and she was happy, and I was happy because she was. Of course, she still complained that I didn’t have an erection when doing that, so she felt I didn’t like doing it. Not so, I was concentrating on doing my best work.
> My point is I agree with Oldshirt, if a oerson wants to please their partner, there are ways.
> let’s face it, some people are in marriages of convenience and don’t really have any romantic feelings for their spouse, and that’s a shame. I think those types of marriages might be best ended, especially if the couple aren’t both happy.


You did your best and she still complained. That can get exhausting and cause a lot of resentment if the relationship continued.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Let's be reasonable and let's read what has actually been said.
> 
> Neither I nor anyone else have said one single word about any kind of force or making anyone do something they do not want to do.
> 
> ...


We will have to agree to disagree on that one. They are many health conditions and illnesses that would mean sex is impossible.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> We will have to agree to disagree on that one. They are many health conditions and illnesses that would mean sex is impossible.


If you only consider sex to be PIV and only PIV to be sex, then that may be true. 

If however you see sexuality as a wide spectrum of various activities, techniques and behaviors, then that opens up a very wide range of possibilities that any conscious, self aware, consenting adult can engage in if they wanted to. 

Whether they want to or not is kind of my point. If someone is rejecting and denying their partner, it is because they don't want to have intimate relations with them. Not because they "can't." If they wanted to, they can find a way to at least do something that is mutually intimate and pleasurable.


----------



## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> We will have to agree to disagree on that one. They are many health conditions and illnesses that would mean sex is impossible.


Cue the “open marriage” recommendations… 😂


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> If you only consider sex to be PIV and only PIV to be sex, then that may be true.
> 
> If however you see sexuality as a wide spectrum of various activities, techniques and behaviors, then that opens up a very wide range of possibilities that any conscious, self aware, consenting adult can engage in if they wanted to.
> 
> Whether they want to or not is kind of my point. If someone is rejecting and denying their partner, it is because they don't want to have intimate relations with them. Not because they "can't." If they wanted to, they can find a way to at least do something that is mutually intimate and pleasurable.


As I said we won't agree on this. It's not about not wanting to in many cases but being unable to.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> As I said we won't agree on this. It's not about not wanting to in many cases but being unable to.


Can you give an example? Seems to me if person is conscious with one operational appendage, they can sexually share with a willing partner. Not meaning to be contrary, but what am I missing? Wife and I have both experienced prolonged bouts with cancer that made PIV impossible, but when not fatigued we had a lot of fun in other ways.

Joy of Sex had an example of a man who was very good climaxing his woman using his big toe (?!)


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> As I said we won't agree on this. It's not about not wanting to in many cases but being unable to.


Like @Rus47 I too would like some examples of conscious, oriented, self aware people that WANT to have sexual relations with their partner but were completely UNABLE to do ANYTHING physically intimate. 

There are quadraplegics that have sexual relationships with their partner. There are people with severe Cerebral Palsy that have sexual relationships. There are cancer and chemo patients that have sexual relationships. There are combat veterans that have terrible injuries and have missing limbs and who's balls are still laying in tiny bits along the road in Afghanistan that having sexual activities with their partners. 

Again, there are people unable to have actual PIV due to a host of reasons. No one is arguing that. 

We are talking about conscious, able-minded people who want and desire to have an intimate relationship with their partner but are unable to do anything.


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

ZEUS1984 said:


> So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived. At that point she said she doesn't want the sex life to stop as that's what keeps us close. We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. I was understanding. I tried to talk about it and she explained that she didn't feel like herself body wise etc and were so tired. Then we started having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months at most for about the next 12 Some Som
> 
> ]
> Some checking about infidelity makes sense. And before leaving, consider a little tit or tat. You usually go to her parent Sunday Night, continue plans as usual, and then explain you're not in the mood and it wouldn't make sense to go. Make sure to start telling her you're not in the mood for things she likes, so therefore you can't do them.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> Like @Rus47 I too would like some examples of conscious, oriented, self aware people that WANT to have sexual relations with their partner but were completely UNABLE to do ANYTHING physically intimate.
> 
> There are quadraplegics that have sexual relationships with their partner. There are people with severe Cerebral Palsy that have sexual relationships. There are cancer and chemo patients that have sexual relationships. There are combat veterans that have terrible injuries and have missing limbs and who's balls are still laying in tiny bits along the road in Afghanistan that having sexual activities with their partners.
> 
> ...


Not to stir the pot further, but there are some folks who think of PIV as "real" sex and other activities as inferior; some folks choose to not do other things.


----------



## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> As I said we won't agree on this. It's not about not wanting to in many cases but being unable to.


PIV, sure.
However, unless they have gum disease and arthritis, there are options for the willing partner.
It's just an issue of will. 
Mind you, I'm assuming the other partner is an understanding one and is accommodating on their partner's abilities.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Rus47 said:


> Can you give an example? Seems to me if person is conscious with one operational appendage, they can sexually share with a willing partner. Not meaning to be contrary, but what am I missing? Wife and I have both experienced prolonged bouts with cancer that made PIV impossible, but when not fatigued we had a lot of fun in other ways.
> 
> Joy of Sex had an example of a man who was very good climaxing his woman using his big toe (?!)


My sil is going through treatment for cancer and has often felt terrible. Sometimes you just feel too ill for anything but
lying alone in bed. Someone with severe clinical depression. Alzheimer's. Recovering from a serious accident. Suffering from severe arthritis. There are a myriad of such things. I would never expect a partner going through these things to have to have sex with me.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> My sil is going through treatment for cancer and has often felt terrible. Sometimes you just feel too ill for anything but
> lying alone in bed. Someone with severe clinical depression. Alzheimer's. Recovering from a serious accident. Suffering from severe arthritis. There are a myriad of such things. I would never expect a partner going through these things to have to have sex with me.


Not has anyone said they expected that either.
Where’s this coming from? You’re just digging up exceptions. normal people with normal health would be having sex in some form or another if they WANTED to. Most spouses want to have sex. Spouses who don’t, aren’t really all that great. Simple.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

ZEUS1984 said:


> Any advice please?


Umm ... plenty.
Very little of which you or she for that matter, will like.

I am twice divorced. Lack of intimacy was a factor in both.

She will play the indignant, angry, or entitled card for exactly as long as you allow.

I'll give you the slow roll advice first.

She is perfectly comfortable with your discomfort.

You need to be practicing same.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> My sil is going through treatment for cancer and has often felt terrible. Sometimes you just feel too ill for anything but
> lying alone in bed. Someone with severe clinical depression. Alzheimer's. Recovering from a serious accident. Suffering from severe arthritis. There are a myriad of such things. I would never expect a partner going through these things to have to have sex with me.


Ok. I think we (and @oldshirt ) are actually saying the same thing.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> My sil is going through treatment for cancer and has often felt terrible. Sometimes you just feel too ill for anything but
> lying alone in bed. Someone with severe clinical depression. Alzheimer's. Recovering from a serious accident. Suffering from severe arthritis. There are a myriad of such things. I would never expect a partner going through these things to have to have sex with me.


Yes, someone who is acutely ill and feeling particularly bad at the moment is not going to want to have sex..... that's not what we're talking about. 

And people with alzheimers or severe depression etc are not going to be in the headspace to want to have sex. 

My point from the beginning is if someone WANTS to, they will be able to find a way.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I try to keep things simple these days. The advice that I impart to myself and now call 'wisdom' may be someone elses idea of complete asshattery. But, one way or another we experience, we learn, we adjust. Or ... we don't.

In matters of long term relationships, despite all of the trappings I have two categories for partners. Fighters and Runners. A fighter values her relationship with you and will actively take steps to preserve, maintain, or salvage it.
Runners on the other hand, become complacent. They prioritize their needs, and their needs only. You ... are simply present to facilitate those needs. Upset that balance, make them work at the relationship, and the whole enterprise comes tumbling down. They run for the door. They don't want discomfort. They don't want conflict. They don't want to invest energy and effort. They may leave, they may pursue an affair, they may simply retreat to a world of their own creation. Importantly, they are simply no longer present for, or participating in the relationship.

Never, ever, fight for a runner.

You want to find out which kind of partner you have? Regardless of medical, economic, or social problems and issues? Do the following exercise:

Engage with her and ask her what about the marriage she values. Pay attention to her response. Does it involve connections with you? Do you agree? Or is it about 'things'?

Now when it comes time for you to respond to the same question; you say these words verbatim.

"Actually I'm not sure that I still want to be married."

Many will say this is self sabotage and that you are purposely undermining her sense of safety and security within the relationship.

To which I say;

Exactly.

Welcome to the trenches.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I was a fighter and a runner - or rather a walker.

20 years was enough fighting the sexless battle alone. Then I walked.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

minimalME said:


> I was a fighter and a runner - or rather a walker.
> 
> 20 years was enough fighting the sexless battle alone. Then I walked.


Walking is what fighters do when their partner fails to respond with equal measure.


----------



## Defhero (Jan 5, 2022)

ZEUS1984 said:


> So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived. At that point she said she doesn't want the sex life to stop as that's what keeps us close. We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. I was understanding. I tried to talk about it and she explained that she didn't feel like herself body wise etc and were so tired. Then we started having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months at most for about the next 12 months. Then the next 12 months we would have sex probably once a month in the small window she had some libido when ovulating. It was always great and she would always say 'why aren't we doing this more often'. Ideally I would have liked it more, but at least it was something. She discovered she was going through a slightly early menopause and started HRT. There has been no sex for 7 months.
> 
> Whenever I have tried to initiate it, or hint at it or make a lighthearted joke I'm just rebuffed and I end up feeling completely rejected and down. There have been occasions where she has pretty much said she was going to do something for me that evening, then when we've got to bed it's never mentioned again and I'm left frustrated and rejected again to the point I gave up trying or talking about as I felt guilty for saying that I want to touch her or do anything remotely intimate with my wife.
> 
> ...


I posted a discussion on the main page. It hits on this very thing - Loss of love, loss of sex, loss of desire, loss of attraction or are these all just excuses? 
A lot of women fall into this sort of thing and it is expected that the man will deal with it and do without. This means without cheating/straying. Even though, most screwed and wanted to be screwed like bunnies in the beginning. 
The big questions are, what happened along the way? What ever it was or is, it has brought resentment and that resentment comes with punishment. If she was scared to lose you, she would make sure your satisfied. The writing is on the wall, you just have to see it.


----------



## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

ZEUS1984 said:


> So we've been together for 7 years, married for 4. We had a fantastic sex life up until our son was conceived. At that point she said she doesn't want the sex life to stop as that's what keeps us close. We probably had sex twice more during the first few weeks of pregnancy, then it stopped completely for about 3 years. Zero intamcy at all. Not even touching pleasuring in any way. I was understanding. I tried to talk about it and she explained that she didn't feel like herself body wise etc and were so tired. Then we started having sex maybe once every 2 or 3 months at most for about the next 12 months. Then the next 12 months we would have sex probably once a month in the small window she had some libido when ovulating. It was always great and she would always say 'why aren't we doing this more often'. Ideally I would have liked it more, but at least it was something. She discovered she was going through a slightly early menopause and started HRT. There has been no sex for 7 months.
> 
> Whenever I have tried to initiate it, or hint at it or make a lighthearted joke I'm just rebuffed and I end up feeling completely rejected and down. There have been occasions where she has pretty much said she was going to do something for me that evening, then when we've got to bed it's never mentioned again and I'm left frustrated and rejected again to the point I gave up trying or talking about as I felt guilty for saying that I want to touch her or do anything remotely intimate with my wife.
> 
> ...


Yep. Double Down. Because you're in the right here. And you're almost doing it in a way that's too comforting. Women have been taught that they don't have to satisfy their man and whatever they think and feel is correct. No. Make her get down to some real discussions and face the issue head on. She will respect you more for it in the long run. She's trying to flip the script on you to avoid actually talking about it deeper and giving you the satisfaction of reaching a conclusion that isn't solely based on her feelings. Like someone else said, hold the line. Definitely hold the line.


----------

