# My wife had (is having) an affair, Help!



## DeepDarkHole

Ok, this might be a little long so bare with me.

Firstly, let me state that I accept my role in this, I know that I am not blameless (more on that later) but I need advice. 

Six years ago my wife (then my girl friend) and I moved to a new town because of my work. She got herself a new job. When she started there she was befriended by a guy that I will call S. This guy had been with the company for years and had built a reputation of hitting on all the new girls who came within his sight. unfortunately we didn't find out about this for a couple of months and she told me then that she was going to stop the friendship as she didn't want to be sucked into people thinking that she was his latest conquest. I stopped thinking about him, thought that he had vanished. I loved her, I'm going to call her C here for constancies sake.

Over the years my job became more and more stressful, I started having to take work home and consequently didn't show C the attention I should have. 

In September we were on holiday and I caught her responding to a text message. When I asked who it was she told me that it was S. To say I was shocked was an understatement but I didn't say anything to her beyond the normal things of "why is he texting you, I thought you didn't like him". She didn't really give me an answer that satisfied me but I had no evidence of anything wrong so I left it.

During the last six months she had also been befriended by a woman on facebook, J, and their conversations had become quite personal and in depth. C spent most evenings on her phone talking to J.

In October C moved the conversation from Facebook to Whatsapp. In hindsight the only reason I can see for doing this was C thought that I knew her password to facebook and didn't want me to see what she was saying (I don't know it but that is the conclusion I reached) The conversations continued and as C was giving me snippets of what J was saying I didn't think anything of it. You might say that I was blinkered and thought that everything was fine.

During the last few months she also started taking herself to bed early leaving me in the living room to watch TV. As she was always asleep by the time I got to bed I assumed that she was just tired.

Again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

On the first weekend in Novemebr we went to a wedding, we had a great time and I thought that everything was fine between us. However, while we were waiting for the taxi to take us home I saw that she was texting S. I didn't see what she said but it niggled me, we had had a great day and she was texting him again.

On the Monday following the wedding I gave her a new phone, her old phone was really bad and I thought it was a nice thing to do She went to bed early as normal that night and left her old phone on the coffee table. Just out of curisosity I thought I would look at the Whatsapp messages between C and J to see if there was anything interesting in there.

The first message (after moving the conversation out of facebook) was C saying that she was having an affair.

Suddenly that nagging gut feeling solidified. I knew who it was, I knew it was true. So what to do about it?

While she was in the shower the next morning I turned on the find my phone option on her phone. So now I knew where she was. The next morning I installed some more invasive tracking software to her phone as well.

On Wednesday I saw that she left work at lunchtime but she didn't go where I expected, but to a pub around the corner from his house (I had looked up his address on the internet by this time) so I couldn't confront her.

On the friday she left for work early, very out of character for her, so I quickly checked the SMS log. The software I had chosen wasn't great (only picks up about 1 SMS in 7) but it did show that C and S had texted that morning. So on a hunch I set off for his house and parked around the corner.

When I got there her car was outside. I had my camera with me and waited an hour for her to come out. Snapping a few pictures of her as she got into her car. by this time she was very late for work.

Getting through the day was hard, the week had been hard with the suspicions but now I had proof. I don't think that I did any work that day. I spent most of it trying to work out how to confront her.

In the end I took a cowardly way out. I waited until she had left work and then emailed her a few of the photos I had taken that morning. No text, just the images.

She tried to phone me several times and from the tracking software she also tried to phone S. Then she replied to the email saying that we need to talk.

I couldn't face her that night. We had quite a long, detalied conversation over email that night where I told her what I knew. Saturday lunch time I went home and we had a very long chat over the weekend where she showed remorse and swore that it was over yada yada yada.

Ok I thought, we can move forward from this. Rebuild. she has told me it's over and that she wont contact him again.

He sent the occasional text message which she ignored after showing me what it said so everything was fine right?

That was until I had to go on a family event in the middle of Novemeber. Still checking her SMS logs (I had installed better software by this time) she spent the day texting him. I got drunk and ignored it. to be fair to her she wasn't giving him any kind of come on.

Then, last wednesday the texts started again. This time she was using lines like "You.made me feel vibrant, colourful.and exciting. Without you I feel grey and dull." and he was replying with things like "C Your trying to explain to me thats its one sided and your future is with <your husband>. its not on both counts" and "Either kill him or find away around it i want you in my bed"

She told me when I found out that he was ill and because he had taken so much time off work through the sickness he had a lot of leave to use up so he was taking most wednesdays off work. I started thinking that if he is texting her on his day off does that mean that they are emailing each other while they are at work.

A couple of texts from a mutual friend of C and S over the next couple of days confirmed it -

"I hope u two have started talking please say you have"
"Oh and he casually might mentioned saw you today and you both said hello thats a start"
"Hi lovely s says answer your f in phone lol least your talking"

On thursday evening last week she gave me a story that was a half truth about the texts on Wednesday, saying that she had had to dump S again by email that morning.

There has been no contact between any of the parties that I have seen since Saturday but at lunchtimes she is doing strange things, spending 30 minutes or so in the car park at work, or down the road from work and then telling me that she did her normal thing of going to her staff canteen.

So now I am in a position where I don't know what to do.

1. She is still talking to him when she promised that there would be no more contact
2. She is doing strange things at lunchtime
3. She isn't giving me the whole truth about what she and S are doing.

I don't know how to confront her about this now. I have nothing concrete that I can use without giving away that I am monitoring her texts (and I want to keep that up my sleeve for now) but I have a gut feeling that something is still going on.

Like I say, I know that this is partly my fault, I am not trying to say that she is entirely in the wrong (there are better ways that she could have handled the problematic home life but it takes two to tango) but I can't trust her, and the more I know that she is hiding from me the less trust I feel.

Help!! (please)


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## seasalt

The only thing that is your fault is your inability to clearly show her the consequences for what she did and continues to do.

Set your boundries and require clear and demonstrable remorse before you offer her any form of reconciliation.

Any thing less is abuse by her and the self inflicton of pain by you.

Seasalt


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## Thound

You may be guilty of ignoring her, but her affair is HER OWN FAULT. Is there a way you could have a friend drive by where she goes to lunch?


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## italianjob

- She's blatantly cheating on you, even after being caught.
- God only knows how long this has been going on, maybe ever since she started working therre.
- It sounds like there are no kids involved.

If I were you, pal, I would just dump her and move on...


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## Chaparral

Why doesn't she divorce you for her lover? What's stopping her? She obviously has no concern for you.


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## Chaparral

She cheats on you because you allow it. It disgusts her that you share her with another man.

Pack her stuff and tell her to leave. You have to be willing to lose her in order to save your marriage though I dont know why you would want his leftovers.

You need to down load the mmslp book linked to below. You can download it at amazon.com. You don't understand why she is attracted to him and not you.


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## G.J.

I'm so sorry you find your self here

Install a VAR in her car A.S.A.P.

Others on here will tell you what you need to do later today and please *follow* there advice


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## Mr.Fisty

Stop making excuses for your wife. She is an adult and not a child. That is a sign of weakness. Take her off the pedestal, and remove the rose tinted glasses. Your perception of her is skewed. From my vantage point, she is a liar, a weak person, she lacks boundaries, and is easily lead strayed. She is weak also because she was not able to confront you, and do the right thing. Don't forget, another woman in this situation will not cheat, so your wife is not as great as you believe she is.

After exposing, you never dealt with it, and swept it under a rug. Your trying to portray that everything is fine, and you never dealt with either person's flaws. So why are you surprised that it is continuing. She is still a liar and weak person, and your actionss prove that your're not strong enough to level consequences at her. Until you detach, and learn to be a strong individual, you will lose her no matter what, because someone is actively taking her away, while your standing by. You were happy without her in your life, and you have to realize that you can be happy without her either. You want the illusion of what your wife is, more than you can accept the reality. Your in DENIAL. Your floundering around without a clue, and this situation has you off balanced.

If you were level headed, and detached, you would have told her to quit her job. That each of you need counseling to deal with the underlying issues. That she cuts all contact with her friend and the om. And if she does not comply, then you will file for divorce. You honestly want the illusion of your wife more, and your in love with the idea of her, and not her. I don't think you love the traits of dishonesty, manipulation, poor boundaries, lack of respect, and no signs of guilt for her continuing lies.

Now you have to expose to family and friends, and perhaps the shame and guilt will knock her out of it. You should file divorce, and you can stop that if you have too. Show her the consequences of her actions. Become a strong, independent person again, or learn to be one. Find the value in yourself. This shows that you have low esteem. You have only this one life, so do what you can to become the person you want.


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## NoChoice

Dark,
Look the simply fact is that you are not happy with this situation much like your WW was not happy being ignored and put off by you. She did something about it, what are you going to do? She handled it in completely the wrong way. Her method leads to destruction of the marriage. If you respond in kind then you may as well just fold now and walk away. If you wish to try an save the marriage however, then your path is really quite clear.

You must gather whatever evidence you feel you need, if you don't already feel you have enough and then you must confront your wife in a calm, rational manner and simply tell her that this behavior is completely unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated. She needs to know that in order to continue in this marriage she must IMMEDIATELY cease all contact with the OM. She must become completely transparent to you in every aspect of her life. Social media, texting, phone, everything. She must, in essence, prove to you that she wants to continue on with this marriage. Anything short of meeting all of these conditions and you are spinning your wheels and going nowhere. If she is unwilling to do all of this then you must swiftly move to D her and allow her to be with her "lover".

You have very limited options here since she is the one calling the shots now. By doing the above you become empowered in that you control the what will and will not be put up with. Whatever you allow, she will take and run with it. You must stop this now. The OM wants her in his bed and even though she didn't want to be "one of his conquests" that is exactly where she finds herself, until his next conquest comes along and then she will be old news.

That portion of the process you have little control over so if she chooses him, there's really nothing you can do but to D and move on and allow her to crash and burn. Also consider that time is your enemy at this stage because if she knows that you know and you do nothing, she will interpret that as acceptance on your part and it will embolden her. You must act swiftly and decisively if you want to try and salvage this.

Also, if there is a Mrs. OM then you should expose to her and let her work on the OM from her side. I am also a proponent of exposing to family and friends to put additional pressure and stress on the A but there are varying viewpoints on this so you will need to weigh what you read here and decide what you feel is best in that regard. I am sorry you are here and I wish you luck in whatever path you choose


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## GusPolinski

DeepDarkHole said:


> Ok, this might be a little long so bare with me.
> 
> Firstly, let me state that I accept my role in this, I know that I am not blameless (more on that later) but I need advice.
> 
> Six years ago my wife (then my girl friend) and I moved to a new town because of my work. She got herself a new job. When she started there she was befriended by a guy that I will call S. This guy had been with the company for years and had built a reputation of hitting on all the new girls who came within his sight. unfortunately we didn't find out about this for a couple of months and she told me then that she was going to stop the friendship as she didn't want to be sucked into people thinking that she was his latest conquest. I stopped thinking about him, thought that he had vanished. I loved her, I'm going to call her C here for constancies sake.
> 
> Over the years my job became more and more stressful, I started having to take work home and consequently didn't show C the attention I should have.
> 
> In September we were on holiday and I caught her responding to a text message. When I asked who it was she told me that it was S. To say I was shocked was an understatement but I didn't say anything to her beyond the normal things of "why is he texting you, I thought you didn't like him". She didn't really give me an answer that satisfied me but I had no evidence of anything wrong so I left it.
> 
> During the last six months she had also been befriended by a woman on facebook, J, and their conversations had become quite personal and in depth. C spent most evenings on her phone talking to J.
> 
> In October C moved the conversation from Facebook to Whatsapp. In hindsight the only reason I can see for doing this was C thought that I knew her password to facebook and didn't want me to see what she was saying (I don't know it but that is the conclusion I reached) The conversations continued and as C was giving me snippets of what J was saying I didn't think anything of it. You might say that I was blinkered and thought that everything was fine.
> 
> During the last few months she also started taking herself to bed early leaving me in the living room to watch TV. As she was always asleep by the time I got to bed I assumed that she was just tired.
> 
> Again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.
> 
> On the first weekend in Novemebr we went to a wedding, we had a great time and I thought that everything was fine between us. However, while we were waiting for the taxi to take us home I saw that she was texting S. I didn't see what she said but it niggled me, we had had a great day and she was texting him again.
> 
> On the Monday following the wedding I gave her a new phone, her old phone was really bad and I thought it was a nice thing to do She went to bed early as normal that night and left her old phone on the coffee table. Just out of curisosity I thought I would look at the Whatsapp messages between C and J to see if there was anything interesting in there.
> 
> The first message (after moving the conversation out of facebook) was C saying that she was having an affair.
> 
> Suddenly that nagging gut feeling solidified. I knew who it was, I knew it was true. So what to do about it?
> 
> While she was in the shower the next morning I turned on the find my phone option on her phone. So now I knew where she was. The next morning I installed some more invasive tracking software to her phone as well.
> 
> On Wednesday I saw that she left work at lunchtime but she didn't go where I expected, but to a pub around the corner from his house (I had looked up his address on the internet by this time) so I couldn't confront her.
> 
> On the friday she left for work early, very out of character for her, so I quickly checked the SMS log. The software I had chosen wasn't great (only picks up about 1 SMS in 7) but it did show that C and S had texted that morning. So on a hunch I set off for his house and parked around the corner.
> 
> When I got there her car was outside. I had my camera with me and waited an hour for her to come out. Snapping a few pictures of her as she got into her car. by this time she was very late for work.
> 
> Getting through the day was hard, the week had been hard with the suspicions but now I had proof. I don't think that I did any work that day. I spent most of it trying to work out how to confront her.
> 
> In the end I took a cowardly way out. I waited until she had left work and then emailed her a few of the photos I had taken that morning. No text, just the images.
> 
> She tried to phone me several times and from the tracking software she also tried to phone S. Then she replied to the email saying that we need to talk.
> 
> I couldn't face her that night. We had quite a long, detalied conversation over email that night where I told her what I knew. Saturday lunch time I went home and we had a very long chat over the weekend where she showed remorse and swore that it was over yada yada yada.
> 
> Ok I thought, we can move forward from this. Rebuild. she has told me it's over and that she wont contact him again.
> 
> He sent the occasional text message which she ignored after showing me what it said so everything was fine right?
> 
> That was until I had to go on a family event in the middle of Novemeber. Still checking her SMS logs (I had installed better software by this time) she spent the day texting him. I got drunk and ignored it. to be fair to her she wasn't giving him any kind of come on.
> 
> Then, last wednesday the texts started again. This time she was using lines like "You.made me feel vibrant, colourful.and exciting. Without you I feel grey and dull." and he was replying with things like "C Your trying to explain to me thats its one sided and your future is with <your husband>. its not on both counts" and "Either kill him or find away around it i want you in my bed"
> 
> She told me when I found out that he was ill and because he had taken so much time off work through the sickness he had a lot of leave to use up so he was taking most wednesdays off work. I started thinking that if he is texting her on his day off does that mean that they are emailing each other while they are at work.
> 
> A couple of texts from a mutual friend of C and S over the next couple of days confirmed it -
> 
> "I hope u two have started talking please say you have"
> "Oh and he casually might mentioned saw you today and you both said hello thats a start"
> "Hi lovely s says answer your f in phone lol least your talking"
> 
> On thursday evening last week she gave me a story that was a half truth about the texts on Wednesday, saying that she had had to dump S again by email that morning.
> 
> There has been no contact between any of the parties that I have seen since Saturday but at lunchtimes she is doing strange things, spending 30 minutes or so in the car park at work, or down the road from work and then telling me that she did her normal thing of going to her staff canteen.
> 
> So now I am in a position where I don't know what to do.
> 
> 1. She is still talking to him when she promised that there would be no more contact
> 2. She is doing strange things at lunchtime
> 3. She isn't giving me the whole truth about what she and S are doing.
> 
> I don't know how to confront her about this now. I have nothing concrete that I can use without giving away that I am monitoring her texts (and I want to keep that up my sleeve for now) but I have a gut feeling that something is still going on.
> 
> Like I say, I know that this is partly my fault, I am not trying to say that she is entirely in the wrong (there are better ways that she could have handled the problematic home life but it takes two to tango) but I can't trust her, and the more I know that she is hiding from me the less trust I feel.
> 
> Help!! (please)


Divorce.


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## GusPolinski

G.J. said:


> I'm so sorry you find your self here
> 
> Install a VAR in her car A.S.A.P.
> 
> Others on here will tell you what you need to do later today and please *follow* there advice


Why? There's no need -- he already knows everything that he needs to know, he's already confronted, and she's already confirmed. She's lied repeatedly about ending the affair and, given some of the texts from OM, OP's life might actually be in danger.

Dark, divorce is your only realistic option. File now, and cut this wh*re out of your live immediately and forever.


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## GusPolinski

Chaparral said:


> She cheats on you because you allow it. It disgusts her that you share her with another man.
> 
> Pack her stuff and tell her to leave. You have to be willing to lose her in order to save your marriage though I dont know why you would want his leftovers.
> 
> You need to down load the mmslp book linked to below. You can download it at amazon.com. You don't understand why she is attracted to him and not you.


MMSLP = "Married Man's Sex Life Primer"

Also consider picking up "No More Mister Nice Guy", which is commonly referred to as "NMMNG" around these parts.


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## G.J.

GusPolinski said:


> Why? There's no need -- he already knows everything that he needs to know, he's already confronted, and she's already confirmed. She's lied repeatedly about ending the affair and, given some of the texts from OM, OP's life might actually be in danger.
> 
> Dark, divorce is your only realistic option. File now, and cut this wh*re out of your live immediately and forever.


The feelings he has posted show he doesn't want a divorce but to enable him to overcome this and able to make a filing for divorce decision would I think need more proof *FOR HIM*


> but I can't trust her, and the more I know that she is hiding from me the less trust I feel.


hence VAR in car to slap him hard

When he hears more 



> You.made me feel vibrant, colourful.and exciting. Without you I feel grey and dull."


or even worse


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## IIJokerII

GusPolinski said:


> Why? There's no need -- he already knows everything that he needs to know, he's already confronted, and she's already confirmed. She's lied repeatedly about ending the affair and, given some of the texts from OM, OP's life might actually be in danger.
> 
> Dark, divorce is your only realistic option. File now, and cut this wh*re out of your live immediately and forever.


G.J.,

Gus is beyond correct on this one and any future post Darkman here lists will just be an exercise in redundancy. As of D-Day she is now his adversary and for everyday that passes is another loss for him. 

He has all the evidence he needs and just needs to accept it as it is, over and toxic, and pull the trigger. Now this is not to say that after some extreme above and beyond efforts on the WW part that the relationship cannot be repaired, but why risk it. He dared half of his things that she'd love him forever and it is now a losing effort. No telling what kind of damage she can or will do to the OP. Just ask Dadof2 about what a WW will do to facilitate an affair, especially a woman.


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## G.J.

IIJokerII said:


> G.J.,
> 
> Gus is beyond correct on this one and any future post Darkman here lists will just be an exercise in redundancy. As of D-Day she is now his adversary and for everyday that passes is another loss for him.
> 
> He has all the evidence he needs and just needs to accept it as it is, over and toxic, and pull the trigger. Now this is not to say that after some extreme above and beyond efforts on the WW part that the relationship cannot be repaired, but why risk it. He dared half of his things that she'd love him forever and it is now a losing effort. No telling what kind of damage she can or will do to the OP. Just ask Dadof2 about what a WW will do to facilitate an affair, especially a woman.


I hear what you guys say..I AGREE
BUT he is at the start (no advice from people before) and needs to get hurt a little more before drastic action is taken from reading his post
If he does what you say GREAT ..but I think he will need more


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## DeepDarkHole

Thanks for all the comments so far. I take your points that at the moment I am being weak. That being said, I haven't stopped trying to find out what she is up to. I want to have something concrete to confront her with (yes I know the texts could be damning but she could get out of those)

There isn't a Mrs OM so that's not an avenue unfortunately. 

So I have two conflicting opinions. On the one hand I could just be being paranoid, she did say that he might cause trouble for her at work and therefore she is trying to let him down gently, the benefit of the doubt approach. On the other, it is still going on and it is only a matter of time before I catch her out.

You are right to say that I am in love with the idea of her (this is not a woe is me tale so don't take it that way) I had two major relationships before C that failed. When I found C she was a perfect fit for me, we liked the same things, had the same outlook on life etc. So, letting go is hard. I am capable of being strong and independent. it's how I grew up and spent a fair chunk of my adult life. But when someone has made such a big impact in your life then thinking about ending it doesn't come easily.

That being said, the lack of trust is never going to help and yes time isn't on my side. the longer it goes on with my suspicions the harder it will get.

Divorce is an option, but I want to come at that from a standpoint of I know that it is still going on rather than a I lived with it for a month and can't go any further.

VAR in the car wont work, more often than not I take her to work. But I am looking into ways to turn ambient voice recording on on her phone and see what that yields.

If I had seen no contact with him for the last month this would be easy, well easy is the wrong word but we could move forward. But seeing that she is texting him, and therefore by extension emailing him means that there is still something there and if nothing is happening at the moment then it is only a matter of time.

I read an article yesterday that listed a couple of red flags for your partner is having an affair, clearing phone logs, being forgetful and being cross and she has hit all three of those in the last week.

I am far from pushing this under the rug, I have done what I can to gather evidence and am continuing to do so but until I have something definite then it is a waiting game. She doesn't know that I am tracking her phone (if she did she wouldn't have sent the texts at all) so I have that in my favour.

I am waiting to see what happens on Friday. She has the day of work so if there is still something going on I would expect him to text her then.  Unless she brings her work phone or laptop home with her which will be evidence in itself as she never does that for a day off. But I am kind of hoping she does so I can get into her emails.


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## GusPolinski

G.J. said:


> I hear what you guys say..I AGREE
> BUT he is at the start (no advice from people before) and needs to get hurt a little more before drastic action is taken from reading his post
> If he does what you say GREAT ..but I think he will need more


If he needs more, he can start w/ this...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Anything and everything that anyone needs to know about VARs, etc is in that thread.

Honestly, though, he has all that he needs from her texts and e-mails, seeing where she's at via GPS, and even her own admission.

I'm not seeing a guy that needs more info or intel... I'm seeing a guy that has his WW on such a lofty pedestal that he can't bring himself to do what he KNOWS to realistically be his only option, and that's whether her wants her back or not.

Dark, if you want your wife back, FILE FOR DIVORCE, because that's the only thing that's going to wake her up and bring her back to you.

Alternately, if you don't want your wife back (and I can't imagine why you would), FILE FOR DIVORCE, because that's the only thing that's going to cut her cancerous bullsh*t out of your life.


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## GusPolinski

DeepDarkHole said:


> Thanks for all the comments so far. I take your points that at the moment I am being weak. That being said, I haven't stopped trying to find out what she is up to. I want to have something concrete to confront her with (yes I know the texts could be damning but she could get out of those)
> 
> There isn't a Mrs OM so that's not an avenue unfortunately.
> 
> So I have two conflicting opinions. On the one hand I could just be being paranoid, she did say that he might cause trouble for her at work and therefore she is trying to let him down gently, the benefit of the doubt approach. On the other, it is still going on and it is only a matter of time before I catch her out.
> 
> You are right to say that I am in love with the idea of her (this is not a woe is me tale so don't take it that way) I had two major relationships before C that failed. When I found C she was a perfect fit for me, we liked the same things, had the same outlook on life etc. So, letting go is hard. I am capable of being strong and independent. it's how I grew up and spent a fair chunk of my adult life. But when someone has made such a big impact in your life then thinking about ending it doesn't come easily.
> 
> That being said, the lack of trust is never going to help and yes time isn't on my side. the longer it goes on with my suspicions the harder it will get.
> 
> Divorce is an option, but I want to come at that from a standpoint of I know that it is still going on rather than a I lived with it for a month and can't go any further.
> 
> VAR in the car wont work, more often than not I take her to work. But I am looking into ways to turn ambient voice recording on on her phone and see what that yields.
> 
> If I had seen no contact with him for the last month this would be easy, well easy is the wrong word but we could move forward. But seeing that she is texting him, and therefore by extension emailing him means that there is still something there and if nothing is happening at the moment then it is only a matter of time.
> 
> I read an article yesterday that listed a couple of red flags for your partner is having an affair, clearing phone logs, being forgetful and being cross and she has hit all three of those in the last week.
> 
> *I am far from pushing this under the rug, I have done what I can to gather evidence and am continuing to do so but until I have something definite then it is a waiting game. She doesn't know that I am tracking her phone (if she did she wouldn't have sent the texts at all) so I have that in my favour.*
> 
> I am waiting to see what happens on Friday. She has the day of work so if there is still something going on I would expect him to text her then. Unless she brings her work phone or laptop home with her which will be evidence in itself as she never does that for a day off. But I am kind of hoping she does so I can get into her emails.


Google "Spybubble".

But also read this...

http://www.justice.gov/usao/ilc/press/2012/06June/06cressy.html


----------



## Roselyn

You need to see a divorce attorney immediately. Your wife has an enabling friend who encourages her in this affair other than her lover. They seem to be all co-workers as her friend commented on seeing them together.

You seem to be married for around five years or less. She has a job. You didn't mention any children. As this point in your marriage, you may not need to support her of alimony. She disappears at lunchtime and you've seen her in his house while you park around the corner and took pictures. How much more can you take of this? She's still cheating. I'm a woman and I'm telling you it's not over and she will turn your life upside down.


----------



## G.J.

GusPolinski said:


> Dark, if you want your wife back, FILE FOR DIVORCE, because that's the only thing that's going to wake her up and bring her back to you.


Soon as you can justify it to your self do what Gus is saying as it will bring her back to reality as quick as anything

Don't forget you don't have to actually D in the end as you can stop it at any time


----------



## Forest

DeepDarkHole said:


> Ok, this might be a little long so bare with me.
> 
> Firstly, let me state that I accept my role in this, I know that I am not blameless (more on that later) but I need advice.
> 
> 
> Over the years my job became more and more stressful, I started having to take work home and consequently didn't show C the attention I should have.
> 
> 
> )


Very typical. You've been indoctrinated like the rest of us.

Because you worked so hard, and took care of your family, its your fault she runs around like a fickle schoolgirl.

Her need for attention and compliments so outweigh everything else in the marriage....If she doesn't get it, its your fault, and she should bedhop with some sleaze ball, while you hold the fort.

She's ruined both of your lives, she doesn't care or know it yet, though. This OM is a putz, which she'll later learn, and be either crawling back, or moving on to the next slick tongue.

Treat her in the way she deserves, like an immoral, hateful, dishonest adulterer. Show her the mirror, and see what she wants.


----------



## arbitrator

The primary mantra of adultery is "deception." Judging from C's actions, you are now her Plan B. She's already checked out of the marriage and doesn't have the backbone to end the marriage herself before starting a new relationship. No woman who is as deceptive as she has so aptly demonstrated would ever drive over to the OM's abode for over an hour and not take time to drop her drawers for her new love interest. Trust me, That's already happened and more than once I might add! You're living in the shell of what you might, in better times, considered to be " a marriage." Well, friend ~ it ain't one anymore!

Since you already have the goods on her and there are no children involved, the honorable thing to do for yourself is to escalate "the 180" and to find yourself a good lawyer to help extricate you from that mess that you now find yourself in!

I wish you well, my friend!


----------



## ButtPunch

arbitrator said:


> Since you already have the goods on her and there are no children involved, the honorable thing to do for yourself is to escalate "the 180" and to find yourself a good lawyer to help extricate you from that mess that you now find yourself in!
> 
> I wish you well, my friend!


:iagree:

Right now this is where you need to be. This may change once you toughen up. Your pos ww and om are laughing at you behind your back. Time to cut her loose. We've all been there buddy, we know it's hard to accept.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I hope these links will help you to know what you need to do. The first one will help you to get stronger, if you start to implement it asap. Once you have checked out all of these links, do a search on this site for "Just Let Them Go". You may also find a link in one of the member's signature lines at the bottom of their post. Please sit back and take a breath. Read the links. Try to separate yourself from what is going on, if at all possible, and talk. Don't let negative posts scare you. Although, they may be exactly what you need to do, you may not be ready to hear what is being told. I encourage you to get into counseling, if you can do that. This site can help, but sometimes it's like getting a punch in the gut while you've got a stomach virus. It takes time, reading, thinking, help from counselors and friends, and disconnecting from the pain to get a perspective you need to help yourself. I'm sorry you are going through this. It sucks. 


The Healing Heart: The 180

When Is It Time to Give Up on Your Marriage?

How Do You Know When Your Marriage Is Over? - FamilyEducation.com

The Unhappy Marriage: Stay or Go? | Psychology Today

Letting Go


----------



## Jellybeans

DeepDarkHole said:


> So now I am in a position where I don't know what to do.
> 
> 1. *She is still talking to him when she promised that there would be no more contact*
> 2. She is doing strange things at lunchtime
> 3. She isn't giving me the whole truth about what she and S are doing.


It's pretty simple, actually. 

Me or him? 

If she is truly committed to you and your marriage, she will axe communication with the guy she said she is having AN AFFAIR with.

There is nothing at all to rebuild or work on as long as she's in communication with him.

Let her know that. 

And be serious. Actions, not words. 

She works with him which is bad news.


----------



## Locke.Stratos

This is not your fault you idiot, your wife is cheating on you because she wants to and enjoys it. Whatever reasons you try to make for her or justifacations she invents, it's all bull****.

You are making a monumental mistake in staying in this marriage and being passive and weak. Whether you want it to work or not you have to divorce her, she is not remorseful and will continue to see, text and have sex with S because she enjoys it and also enjoys having a passive husband at home to provide a safe and secure environment.

What reasons does she have to change her ways, her husband is a weak man with no backbone who is deathly afraid of leaving his wife because she is so amazing that he cannot be without her, no matter how many times she has sex with S, lies to him and disrespects her vows.

Trust me, she is having sex with him. You know it yourself, you're in denial and delaying by searching for more evidence in order to avoid facing the harsh truth (and I know it is a hrash truth to accept) and having to make any real decisions.

She is in a relationship with him, they talk, spend time together, she visits/has visited his place, they text, kiss, makeout, undress and see each other naked and have sex. You have had sex so you know what that involves.

I'm hoping that the above paints a clear image to you so that you can feel the hurt, disrespect, anger, injustice and indignation that you are entitled to.

You are so caught up in trying to verify her obvious actions that you haven't stopped to consider if this is the type of person you want to be to for the rest of your life and if this is the marriage you want to be in. Do you trust her, can you move past what she is doing, will you ever feel secure of her fidelity (which even now is non- existent)?

I am sorry for the pain that you are experiencing, I know that it is awful but you have to take actions and separate. Kick her out, do not contact or worry about what she does and divorce her, seek legal council immediately, do not make any excuses or try to bargain. This is happening to you, it is awful but it happening.

DIVORCE DIVORCE DIVORCE

If for some retarded reason you still wanted the marriage to work out it won't because she is unremorseful, unrepentant, still seeing dou(S)che, feels justified in her actions, is constantly lying to you and she is also in no frame of mind to care about you, the marriage or the consequences of her actions. A swift divorce is the only way forward.

Again I must reiterate, you played absolutely no part in your wife's affair, that is a choice all on her own. Do not shoulder any of the blame of her affair, ignore any incling that suggests that you forced her somehow through your actions or behaviour to text him continuously, drive to his place and have sex on that and many more occassions.

You waited outside his home for an hour, grow a f****** backbone.

If you're into delaying then spend that time reading stories here and try to avoid making their mistakes. Your case though personal to you is not unique, but the conclussion is the same.


----------



## LongWalk

There is no alternative to divorce.

You have no kids.

If you dump her first, you'll feel more self respect in the long term.

Your wife isn't into you. Read WantWifeBack's thread. His cheating wife dumped him but later wanted him back. He, though, had moved on.


----------



## toonaive

Married for less than 6 years? And she is treating you like this? Dude! Seriously! file for divorce, have her served while she is at work. Step back, and watch her reaction then. Then decide whether you want to save the marriage or not. YOU decide. Not your wife. I, personally, would take this opportunity to exit the marriage permanently. She is not marriage material. But, at least take the power your wife has over you, away from her. It will do wonders for your self esteem.


----------



## G.J.

Locke.Stratos said:


> You waited outside his home for an hour, grow a f****** backbone.


Why didn't you knock on the door and confront or wait outside and confront as soon as door opened depending on if you could be seen from windows ?


----------



## DeepDarkHole

G.J. said:


> Why you didn't knock on the door and confront or wait outside and confront as soon as door opened?


 Because he is paranoid, both from past affairs and because he has money problems. He has a CCTV camera looking at his door and he never answers it. While I was waiting a delivery guy knocked on the door and it was ignored.

I take all your points, and have bought the books and bookmarked the links for later reading. I think you are all right, I need to get myself out of this. Waiting isn't helping anyone. The time of year sucks though (too many family commitments in the next couple of weeks) but can I get through Christmas knowing what I do?

I am a weak man, I have low self esteem and have a skewed view of who my wife is. Yes the affair is still going on, and I am ostriching by thinking that it isn't. And yes, I have become passive over the last few years so she is walking over me. 

We have been together since summer 2007 and married since feb 2012. so a lot less than six years. There are no children (I have one by a previous relationship) and she doesn't want any, which is interesting as he does and knows that she doesn't yet he is still trying to get with her. I think there is a gulf between what he thinks he wants and what he actually wants.

She has strayed once, she is going to do it again (if she isn't already). Next time things get too hard at home she will be off into someone elses arms.

She describes herself as selfish, wanting that first flush of romance feeling all the time, even when she knows that once that has gone she has to deal with the mundaneness of life. Maybe she isn't the settling down type and will keep bouncing from one relationship to another until she grows up.

When I say that I accept my role in this, I know that I am not at fault, that I am the injured party, But the feeling that if I had paid her more attention she may not have strayed is a hard one to shake. 

She thought that the reason I was staying up late was because I was seeing someone else. That was how she justified the affair to herself, that if it was OK for me then it was OK for her. I have never been unfaithful, to anyone. 

I think that you are right. she see's me as the comfortable fall back support person while she gets her thrills somewhere else. I appreciate your bluntness, it is refreshing (the close people have told have all been supportive but have all worked on the the rebuild and move forward approach)


----------



## DeepDarkHole

Oh, and thanks for the tip about spybubble. I am using thetruthspy and smstracker at the moment to cover most bases and because I know her Google credentials I can keep an eye on her personal email and what apps are installed on her phone.

She has broken off the friendship with J (for different reasons) but the mutual friend is a concern, always pushing C and S together.


----------



## G.J.

DeepDarkHole said:


> (the close people have told have all been supportive but have all worked on the the rebuild and move forward approach)


Yep that's worked well 

Please justify to yourself *quick as possible* and start D
It will hit her as hard as anything and if the marriage is worth saving her actions will then speak instead of her lies

And she needs to quit her job and look for another after


----------



## MachoMcCoy

I don't understand the problem here. You have pictures of her coming out of his house when she was supposed to be at work. You have logs of texts when she said she was not contacting him. Am I missing something? Didn't think so.

Print that all out. Tack it to the fridge with a magnet along with the divorce papers, open fridge, grab beer, watch some TV and stop talking to her, get on with life.

Any kids?

And am I reading into this that you think this may be emotional only? I've got bad news news...


----------



## stunned

First off, you have to understand that this is a PA. She's had sex with S more times than you care to admit, understand, or can even comprehend. IF you can get past this, and still want to try to make it work, then proceed, if not, start the 180, and see a lawyer immediately.
If you still want to try...
Does she still work with S? If so, you will not be able to kill this. She has to quit and remove herself from the situation. Any kind of R or MC while she is still seeing him daily is useless and waste time and effort. He must be out of her life completely. 
Also, judging by her car park activity and other suspicious comings and goings, I'd bet she has a burner phone. She goes to the car park or wherever to have time to talk and text him in private. This also explains why you haven't seen any activity on the phone that she knows you are monitoring. Get a VAR. You say you drive her to work - if that's the case, how is she getting places for lunch? If she drives, put a VAR in her car. It will reveal her burner phone very quickly. 
Like I said, first off determine if a physical affair is a dealbreaker for you. If so - 180 and a lawyer. Nothing else. If you want to still want try to make it work, you have a long, hard road ahead.


----------



## italianjob

Now that you've added more details...
I really can't see why you would want to try to save this. Set yourself free and leave her to her AP. It sounds like they really deserve each other.


----------



## DeepDarkHole

MachoMcCoy said:


> And am I reading into this that you think this may be emotional only? I've got bad newsad news...


Oh no, I know that she *was* sleeping with him. What I don't know is if she still is. One of the things she said to him last week was -

"I still care about you deeply and I really would like to be friends with you. Proper friends (not.kissing friends). We shared so much.... But.if that's too painful that's fine. We don't need.to keep in.contact. And we can only be in contact at work anyway"


----------



## arbitrator

In apposition with my friend GJ, had I parked outside the OM's house for over an hour just waiting your cheating wife out, damned if I don't think that I would have borrowed someone's high-pitched siren, placed it up on the door stoop, turn that baby on "high," step back, and watch two overly-excited naked asses come flying out of there!

Now that's one priceless image that you, no doubt, would want to have in your photo album!


----------



## italianjob

DeepDarkHole said:


> Oh no, I know that she *was* sleeping with him. What I don't know is if she still is. One of the things she said to him last week was -
> 
> "I still care about you deeply and I really would like to be friends with you. Proper friends (not.kissing friends). We shared so much.... But.if that's too painful that's fine. We don't need.to keep in.contact. And we can only be in contact at work anyway"


I hope you are aware that if you really want to R (no good reason to, but hey it's your life) she needs to go completely NC with the dude, INCLUDING quitting her job...


----------



## G.J.

arbitrator said:


> In apposition with my friend GJ, had I parked outside the OM's house for over an hour just waiting your cheating wife out, damned if I don't think that I would have borrowed someone's high-pitched siren, placed it up on the door stoop, turn that baby on "high," step back, and watch two overly-excited naked asses come flying out of there!
> 
> Now that's one priceless image that you, no doubt, would want to have your photo album!


On a light hearted note that would have been so viral on Youtube, you would have made a fortune


----------



## stunned

DeepDarkHole said:


> Oh no, I know that she *was* sleeping with him. What I don't know is if she still is. One of the things she said to him last week was -
> 
> "I still care about you deeply and I really would like to be friends with you. Proper friends (not.kissing friends). We shared so much.... But.if that's too painful that's fine. We don't need.to keep in.contact. And we can only be in contact at work anyway"


I can unequivocally guarantee you that if they continue to work together, you have NO CHANCE. NONE. She quits today if she's serious about reconciliation with you. Trust me. 
The fact that she still wants to be in contact with him at all proves that she does not want R. If she was committed to R, she would HATE him for what he represents to her. She would want to be as far from him as possible. But she doesn't. She's not over him, she's not over the affair. If you still truly want this to work despite all that she's done (and is still doing), then all contact with him stops NOW. TODAY. She quits her job, changes her phone #, gives you access to everything. TODAY. You are losing this battle, and if you don't turn the tide immediately, you are done for.


----------



## G.J.

stunned said:


> I can unequivocally guarantee you that if they continue to work together, you have NO CHANCE. NONE. She quits today if she's serious about reconciliation with you. Trust me.
> The fact that she still wants to be in contact with him at all proves that she does not want R. If she was committed to R, she would HATE him for what he represents to her. She would want to be as far from him as possible. But she doesn't. She's not over him, she's not over the affair. If you still truly want this to work despite all that she's done (and is still doing), then all contact with him stops NOW. TODAY. She quits her job, changes her phone #, gives you access to everything. TODAY. You are losing this battle, and if you don't turn the tide immediately, you are done for.


Rooting for you DeepDarkHole to re-read all the posts and justify it to yourself* TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO START *to either get your wife back or let it run its course and let her make the heartache


----------



## Clay2013

It sounds like your going to continue being abused for a long time to come. The best thing you can hope for is she leaves you at this point. If you wont defend yourself and protect yourself then who will. 

The moment I knew she was at the OM's house she I would have contacted a lawyer and had the paper work drawn up. She would get the hint when she came home and found them. 

She knows your weak and she is going to use you for as long as she can.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Why would you WANT to stay with this woman? No kids? Divorce. Sorry, but this one is simple.


----------



## 2ntnuf

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Why would you WANT to stay with this woman? No kids? Divorce. Sorry, but this one is simple.


Lerve and that river in Africa. Denial.


----------



## badmemory

DeepDarkHole said:


> I am far from pushing this under the rug


Are you kidding me? 

Not immediately demanding that she quit her job?

Catching her coming out of his house and thinking you need more evidence? 

Accepting her continuing contact with him by text?

Not exposing him at work?

All that is the *definition* of rug sweeping.

She has lost all respect for you due to your weak beta response. Filing for D is your only way to get that respect back and to have any chance to save your marriage. Whether or not you finish the D should depend on her remorse and willingness to accept the consequences. Namely - exposure, transparency, sending him a no contact letter, quitting that job and a demonstrated effort to do the heavy lifting to repair her marriage.


----------



## DeepDarkHole

You've got me thinking about the burner phone now. I didn't think that she had had an opportunity to get one but thinking about it she went to a Starbucks for lunch last Friday which is right next door to a big electronics store so the chance was there


----------



## naiveonedave

DeepDarkHole said:


> You've got me thinking about the burner phone now. I didn't think that she had had an opportunity to get one but thinking about it she went to a Starbucks for lunch last Friday which is right next door to a big electronics store so the chance was there


Why bother to spy, you know what she has done. Get lawyered up and File. 

Getting more information is not going to help you, unless she is already remorseful and you willing to think about R.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Your wife doesn't respect you. Any respect she had for you was erased when you didn't go ape sh!t over the affair. Women don't want a man that is willing to share her.

You need to enforce some boundaries. Tell her she has to do these things now, or divorce:

1) Quit her job
2) No contact with OM or the toxic friends
3) All passwords to all applications, phone, email, etc.

Be a man that she would want. Respect yourself. You deserve much better. Either make her be better or leave her and find someone better.


----------



## bryanp

My question is why do you think so little of yourself. You come across as not really minding that she is a serial cheater who puts your health at risk for STD's. You need to:

1. Get tested for STD's immediately.
2. See a lawyer at once.

She knows that she has a husband who will accept her having sex with other men from time to time so why would she ever respect you? If the roles were reversed would she put up with such humiliation as you have? She clearly absolutely has no respect for you or your so-called marriage.

My friend please remember these words:

IF YOU DO NOT RESPECT YOURSELF THEN WHO WILL?


----------



## DeepDarkHole

naiveonedave said:


> Getting more information is not going to help you, unless she is already remorseful and you willing to think about R.


Outwardly, to me, she is remorseful. That's why I want to catch her in the act. Until I have that I am just being paranoid. I have enabled ambient sound recording on her phone (which works well) so I can listen what happens next time she is doing something strange. Friday should give me something as well.

What I don't want to do is walk away from something that she is working at. I have told her that she only gets one chance and shes had that. Now I need to prove to myself that something is going on (and the text conversations don't prove anything as they are quite one sided)

I know you all say I should leave her imediatley, and if I catch her doing something she shouldn't I will. There wont be any going back. but I have to *KNOW* not just suspect. If she is telling me the truth, that she is trying to let him down gently to keep her work life from being effected by this (she is quite senior in the company and this coming out wouldn't be good for her career) and she is only telling me snippets to protect my feelings then to leave now would make me the arse when we have both said that we want to fix the problems.

So, I need to get evidence, something that she can't cover up or sweep away. If that makes me weak, or a beta male then so be it but I want to make a life changing decision with the evidence at hand. if something is going on it wont be long before she slips up again.


----------



## wmn1

DeepDarkHole said:


> Because he is paranoid, both from past affairs and because he has money problems. He has a CCTV camera looking at his door and he never answers it. While I was waiting a delivery guy knocked on the door and it was ignored.
> 
> I take all your points, and have bought the books and bookmarked the links for later reading. I think you are all right, I need to get myself out of this. Waiting isn't helping anyone. The time of year sucks though (too many family commitments in the next couple of weeks) but can I get through Christmas knowing what I do?
> 
> I am a weak man, I have low self esteem and have a skewed view of who my wife is. Yes the affair is still going on, and I am ostriching by thinking that it isn't. And yes, I have become passive over the last few years so she is walking over me.
> 
> We have been together since summer 2007 and married since feb 2012. so a lot less than six years. There are no children (I have one by a previous relationship) and she doesn't want any, which is interesting as he does and knows that she doesn't yet he is still trying to get with her. I think there is a gulf between what he thinks he wants and what he actually wants.
> 
> She has strayed once, she is going to do it again (if she isn't already). Next time things get too hard at home she will be off into someone elses arms.
> 
> She describes herself as selfish, wanting that first flush of romance feeling all the time, even when she knows that once that has gone she has to deal with the mundaneness of life. Maybe she isn't the settling down type and will keep bouncing from one relationship to another until she grows up.
> 
> When I say that I accept my role in this, I know that I am not at fault, that I am the injured party, But the feeling that if I had paid her more attention she may not have strayed is a hard one to shake.
> 
> She thought that the reason I was staying up late was because I was seeing someone else. That was how she justified the affair to herself, that if it was OK for me then it was OK for her. I have never been unfaithful, to anyone.
> 
> I think that you are right. she see's me as the comfortable fall back support person while she gets her thrills somewhere else. I appreciate your bluntness, it is refreshing (the close people have told have all been supportive but have all worked on the the rebuild and move forward approach)


you identified the problems with yourself. If you fix these and detach, you will be able to win in this upcoming divorce fight and move on more successfully.

Not to throw Weighlifter's name out there but he could probably help you assess when this affair started. She is using you, breaking your heart, lying to you and gaslighting. She is also exposing you to STDs (because of the player she goes out with). It's time to cut and run and thank God you don't have kids


----------



## wmn1

DeepDarkHole said:


> Outwardly, to me, she is remorseful. That's why I want to catch her in the act. Until I have that I am just being paranoid. I have enabled ambient sound recording on her phone (which works well) so I can listen what happens next time she is doing something strange. Friday should give me something as well.
> 
> What I don't want to do is walk away from something that she is working at. I have told her that she only gets one chance and shes had that. Now I need to prove to myself that something is going on (and the text conversations don't prove anything as they are quite one sided)
> 
> I know you all say I should leave her imediatley, and if I catch her doing something she shouldn't I will. There wont be any going back. but I have to *KNOW* not just suspect. If she is telling me the truth, that she is trying to let him down gently to keep her work life from being effected by this (she is quite senior in the company and this coming out wouldn't be good for her career) and she is only telling me snippets to protect my feelings then to leave now would make me the arse when we have both said that we want to fix the problems.
> 
> So, I need to get evidence, something that she can't cover up or sweep away. If that makes me weak, or a beta male then so be it but I want to make a life changing decision with the evidence at hand. if something is going on it wont be long before she slips up again.


what other evidence do you need ?

Is she over at his place helping him install a kitchen ???


----------



## DeepDarkHole

wmn1 said:


> what other evidence do you need ?
> 
> Is she over at his place helping him install a kitchen ???


She's not been over to his place since I found out and confronted her, that I know about at any rate.

It ha only been a month, if she was sensible she'd stay away from anywhere that would be suspicious for a while. I know I would in that situation


----------



## tom67

DeepDarkHole said:


> She's not been over to his place since I found out and confronted her, that I know about at any rate.


Well if you still want more stick a var in her car hopefully you get nothing.


----------



## DeepDarkHole

tom67 said:


> Well if you still want more stick a var in her car hopefully you get nothing.


That's what I am hoping. That I am being paranoid (with justification) but I am not going to be blinded to the possibilities.


----------



## Abc123wife

DeepDarkHole said:


> Outwardly, to me, she is remorseful. That's why I want to catch her in the act. Until I have that I am just being paranoid. I have enabled ambient sound recording on her phone (which works well) so I can listen what happens next time she is doing something strange. Friday should give me something as well.
> 
> What I don't want to do is walk away from something that she is working at. I have told her that she only gets one chance and shes had that. Now I need to prove to myself that something is going on (and the text conversations don't prove anything as they are quite one sided)
> 
> I know you all say I should leave her imediatley, and if I catch her doing something she shouldn't I will. There wont be any going back. but I have to *KNOW* not just suspect. If she is telling me the truth, that she is trying to let him down gently to keep her work life from being effected by this (she is quite senior in the company and this coming out wouldn't be good for her career) and she is only telling me snippets to protect my feelings then to leave now would make me the arse when we have both said that we want to fix the problems.
> 
> So, I need to get evidence, something that she can't cover up or sweep away. If that makes me weak, or a beta male then so be it but I want to make a life changing decision with the evidence at hand. if something is going on it wont be long before she slips up again.


Why are you allowing her to even be concerned about "letting him down easy"? That should be the least of her concerns if she truly is remorseful. You should be her only concern if she wants to rebuild your marriage. And she has betrayed you again! Her recent contact with him is another betrayal. She should have no contact with him at all. The first text or replies to one of his texts should have been the signal for you to walk away. She won't keep away from him. Texts now and then it starts right back up but with her being much more careful. She obviously knows you won't walk away from her so she will keep up the affair.


----------



## Graywolf2

Quite of people have posted since I wrote this so it may be dated.

NEVER let her know that you’re able to monitor her. 

You don’t need any more proof. To snap her out of this file for divorce. Divorce takes a long time and you can stop the process at any time. Right now you’re providing security and the OM provides her with excitement. Why would your wife want to change that? 

You have made it clear by your actions that she can get away with having a relationship with you and the OM. Have her served with divorce papers and tell her that you just want her to happy. 

Remind her that the OM is a player and you can’t compete with that especially when you’re working to pay the bills. She takes you and what you provide for granted and she needs to know that it possible to lose you. That is the only way for her to value you. 

Then monitor her communications and see if you want to proceed with the divorce or not. 

Don’t get her pregnant. Use a condom and tell her why. Now isn’t a good time for kids. If she says that she on the pill, tell her that you’ve learned that you can’t trust her.

Again never reveal that you can see her communications. Most men will never know what their WW is lying about but you will.


----------



## wmn1

DeepDarkHole said:


> That's what I am hoping. That I am being paranoid (with justification) but I am not going to be blinded to the possibilities.


you are not being paranoid and she has brought this on herself. You have a right to know and because of her actions, you have to go through enormous lengths to prove it but I think you know what the truth is ....


----------



## wmn1

Graywolf2 said:


> Quite of people have posted since I wrote this so it may be dated.
> 
> NEVER let her know that you’re able to monitor her.
> 
> You don’t need any more proof. To snap her out of this file for divorce. Divorce takes a long time and you can stop the process at any time. Right now you’re providing security and the OM provides her with excitement. Why would your wife want that to change that?
> 
> You have made it clear by your actions that she can get away with having a relationship with you and the OM. Have her served with divorce papers and tell her that you just want her to happy.
> 
> Remind her that the OM is a player and you can’t compete with that especially when you’re working to pay the bills. She takes you and what you provide for granted and she needs to know that it possible to lose you. That is the only way for her to value you.
> 
> Then monitor her communications and see if you want to proceed with the divorce or not. Don’t get her pregnant.
> 
> Use a condom and tell her why. Now isn’t a good time for kids. If she says that she on the pill, tell her that you’ve learned that you can’t trust her.
> 
> Again never reveal that you can see her communications. Most men will never know what their WW is lying about but you will.


also let her know that condom use if for your inability to trust her since she is around this other dirtball.


----------



## SadSamIAm

DeepDarkHole said:


> Outwardly, to me, she is remorseful. That's why I want to catch her in the act. Until I have that I am just being paranoid. I have enabled ambient sound recording on her phone (which works well) so I can listen what happens next time she is doing something strange. Friday should give me something as well.
> 
> What I don't want to do is walk away from something that she is working at. I have told her that she only gets one chance and shes had that. Now I need to prove to myself that something is going on (and the text conversations don't prove anything as they are quite one sided)
> 
> I know you all say I should leave her imediatley, and if I catch her doing something she shouldn't I will. There wont be any going back. but I have to *KNOW* not just suspect. If she is telling me the truth, that she is trying to let him down gently to keep her work life from being effected by this (she is quite senior in the company and this coming out wouldn't be good for her career)


You know this is going to come out. It always does. People in the company know. There is no getting around it.

This is more reason for her to quit her job. She needs to leave on her own, before it gets out in the open. 

If she was remorseful and worried about her job, she would have been trying to find a new job for a while now.


----------



## G.J.

Graywolf2 said:


> Quite of people have posted since I wrote this so it may be dated.
> 
> NEVER let her know that you’re able to monitor her.
> 
> You don’t need any more proof. To snap her out of this file for divorce. *Divorce takes a long time and you can stop the process at any time.* Right now *you’re providing security and the OM provides her with excitement*. Why would your wife want that to change that?
> 
> You have made it clear by your actions that *she can get away with having a relationship with you and the OM. * Have her served with divorce papers and tell her that you just want her to happy.
> *
> Remind her that the OM is a player and you can’t compete with that especially when you’re working to pay the bills*. She takes you and what you provide for granted and she needs to know that it possible to lose you. That is the only way for her to value you.
> 
> Then monitor her communications and see if you want to proceed with the divorce or not. Don’t get her pregnant.
> 
> Use a condom and tell her why. Now isn’t a good time for kids. If she says that she on the pill, tell her that you’ve learned that you can’t trust her.
> 
> Again never reveal that you can see her communications. Most men will never know what their WW is lying about but you will.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## stunned

Deep,
Please listen to me. The affair is still going on. The ONLY chance you have is for her to quit her job IMMEDIATELY. She will not be able to stop with him if they are still in any means of contact whatsoever. She has to quit her job. Now. There is no way around this, and until it happens, there will be no reconciliation, no true remorse, and absolutely no way in he11 of getting your wife back.


----------



## G.J.

Wonder why the guy is paranoid and has cctv in front of his house
Has he had trouble before with husbands?

Might be worth making some inquires into his back ground if possible


----------



## DeepDarkHole

G.J. said:


> Wonder why the guy is paranoid and has cctv in front of his house
> Has he had trouble before with husbands?
> 
> Might be worth making some inquires into his back ground if possible


I know of at least one other affair, this one with the girlfriend of one of the company directors. And I believe there are others. I am amazed that he still has his job to be honest.


----------



## nanofaan

I'm really not sure how can a person have his ways that easy with women with committed relationship
does he have a magic spell or something?
or is he super attractive that women cant resist him?


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## nanofaan

DeepDark
you need to bring this affair to your soon to be ex wife' job
expose her there and expose the guy.


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## G.J.

Is the company she works for public or private

Do you know code of conduct for relationships with in company


----------



## DeepDarkHole

nanofaan said:


> I'm really not sure how can a person have his ways that easy with women with committed relationship
> does he have a magic spell or something?
> or is he super attractive that women cant resist him?


TBH, I have seen him (He was walking out of a shop as I walked in on Friday, I don't know if he recognised me) and he is nothing to look at. 50, lots of hair, thick beard, walks at a slouch and short. C is 5'11" so she must be a good couple of inches taller than him without heels and she always said she hated small men.

So it's either the magic spell or some form of hypnosis.


----------



## arbitrator

Why on God's green earth would he even remotely want to place his appendage into any of his wife's orifices, knowing full well that her slime ball BF has carte blanche/24-7 access to it! That undoubtedly has to be some really good stuff to pursue it as hard as you do!

The chickens have already come home to roost, my friend! You deserve far better than the likes of her! There is a woman out there who will love and respect you for the man you truly are!

Please move on and just chalk all of this up to one of life's bad experiences!


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## DeepDarkHole

G.J. said:


> Is the company she works for public or private
> 
> Do you know code of conduct for relationships with in company


It's private and they don't seem to have a policy of inter personal relationships. there are several couples who have got married who work there.


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## ButtPunch

Until you toughen up....You have zero shot of saving this marriage.


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## wmn1

I am just going to say what I have to say.

So she gets a text from him and you catch on and somehow they are talking about fantasy football. 

You then follow up on it and catch her at his house, obviously helping him install solar panels. 

Then they follow up in texting in order to discuss further construction projects or a mutual work project.

I don't think so...

Look man, really, you have enough wisdom to know that the texting was a red flag, you caught her at his house and even showed her pics and caught a friend egging her on in her continued affair. You did a great job exposing this.

But now you don't have the balls to pull the trigger.

So the first thing you have to ask yourself is why ??? Is your wife Jessica Simpson making millions of $$ and you have a great life sailing on yachts, driving a Rolls and living large ? If not, why the need to be scared over security issues ??? Can you imagine what they are saying about you as he's either trying or doing the job with your wife ?? You are getting laughed at I am sure.

If you are trying to prove an adultery case for divorce, I get it to an extent. However, in certain states, adultery doesn't matter in court for purposes of divorce. Have you checked in your state ??? You also can file under irreconcilable differences. You have no kids, so there's no child support. Do you work ? if not, she may be on the hook for alimony. If yes, then there may not be any. 

If this woman was really the woman of your dreams, she wouldn't be acting this way. She also wouldn't be cheating on you at all, let alone a scumbag who probably has STDS. 

It's really up to you if you want to live this way. However, you are sailing out of port in a boat where people are more likely to throw you overboard. Yet there are other boats where people may want you that you can sail away on.

I think the choice is evident.

In my opinion, you have a self esteem issue which you admitted, and you have security issues.

So I will ask you four questions

1) How long are you going to put up with this Shi^ ?
2) What is it going to take you to finally say 'enough is enough' ?
3) Have you even considered talking to an attorney ?
4) Why haven't you laid down the law with her yet ???

I think there's more to this than you are giving us. While I get th fear of guessing wrong, what do you have to lsoe at this point ? Does she walk all over you at home ? or is so good at everything else she does that you are willing to ride it out ?? 

I don't get it I am hoping you do ....


----------



## GusPolinski

DeepDarkHole said:


> Outwardly, to me, she is remorseful. That's why I want to catch her in the act. Until I have that I am just being paranoid. I have enabled ambient sound recording on her phone (which works well) so I can listen what happens next time she is doing something strange. Friday should give me something as well.
> 
> What I don't want to do is walk away from something that she is working at. I have told her that she only gets one chance and shes had that. Now I need to prove to myself that something is going on (and the text conversations don't prove anything as they are quite one sided)
> 
> I know you all say I should leave her imediatley, and if I catch her doing something she shouldn't I will. There wont be any going back. but I have to *KNOW* not just suspect. If she is telling me the truth, that she is trying to let him down gently to keep her work life from being effected by this (she is quite senior in the company and this coming out wouldn't be good for her career) and she is only telling me snippets to protect my feelings then to leave now would make me the arse when we have both said that we want to fix the problems.
> 
> So, I need to get evidence, something that she can't cover up or sweep away. If that makes me weak, or a beta male then so be it but I want to make a life changing decision with the evidence at hand. if something is going on it wont be long before she slips up again.


For as long as she's in contact w/ OM _*AT ALL*, she's not truly committed to either you or your marriage._ The ONLY way that reconciliation will work will be for her to go 100% no contact w/ this guy, which means that she needs a new job.


----------



## G.J.

Really would help if you see a solicitor and petition for divorce so its ready to go soon as you are able to justify in your own mind what's still happening

And start 180 a.s.a.p.


----------



## tulsy

DeepDarkHole said:


> ...
> She thought that the reason I was staying up late was because I was seeing someone else. That was how she justified the affair to herself, that if it was OK for me then it was OK for her. I have never been unfaithful, to anyone. ...


It's called blame shifting. 



DeepDarkHole said:


> ....
> What I don't want to do is walk away from something that she is working at. I have told her that she only gets one chance and shes had that. Now I need to prove to myself that something is going on ...


The only thing she's "working at" is the affair.

She's still lying, and lying by ommission.
She's still texting and love-chatting with the OM.
She's still buddy-buddy with her toxic friends who are enabling and helping to facilitate her affair behind your back and in plain sight.

You are honestly wasting your time gathering any more evidence. She's into him, not you. Her actions prove that...believe her actions, not the BS she's feeding you.

Even if you wanted to save your marriage on some level, you can't save it without being willing to lose it.

You HAVE to file for divorce RIGHT NOW. If she does all of the heavy lifting, begging, true remorse, quit job, dump friends, delete social media type stuff, THEN, and ONLY THEN do you even consider salvaging the relationship.

You have drawn a line in the sand, and she walked right past it with her lies and continued contact. You know it, and she knows it. So you both know that you have no concrete boundaries, and you have no real consequences for her behavior.

File for divorce. There is absolutely nothing you can save here. Only your cheating wife could attempt to save what is left from her destructive affair, and she'll either continue her affair after you file for divorce, or she could start the heavy lifting required to rebuild your trust in her. Either way, it's on her to fix it, not you.

Don't waste your time. File and learn the 180; implement it ASAP.


----------



## nanofaan

have you tested yourself for STD?
you might want to do that


----------



## warlock07

DeepDarkHole said:


> She's not been over to his place since I found out and confronted her, that I know about at any rate.
> 
> It ha only been a month, if she was sensible she'd stay away from anywhere that would be suspicious for a while. I know I would in that situation


Why does it matter anyway ?

Do you know how long they have been in the affair ?


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## NoChoice

Dark,
I would like to ask a question. Who would you say your WW cares more about you or S? I hate to break this news to you but you are not her first concern. She deceived you, sneaked around behind your back, lied to you repeatedly and SLEPT with S. How do you feel about that? And SHE WANTS TO LET *HIM* DOWN EASY??? Man you need to wake up here. If your wife had any sincere desire to heal you she wouldn't care if S splatted on the sidewalk but I see the opposite here. That's you there splattered on the walkway as she lowers S to the ground on a down comforter. You're kidding right, you have to see this.

She cares more for him than she does you, sorry but that is the reality of it. So do you think she will be intimate with someone she cares more about or less about? Take a deep breath, that smell you smell is the coffee, wake up and have some. You don't want to act prematurely and do something rash? Are you waiting for her to have his baby? She has committed infidelity with S, how much more mature does it need to get? And now says she has stopped yet she is doing weird things at lunchtime, sitting in her car in the parking lot or just down the street, which is weird since you said you take her to work most times but that is for another post. Ever heard of making out in a car? I bet S has. I am not trying to pile on you here but she sure is. I am trying to make you see she is strumming you like a cheap guitar. Open your eyes...look around....recognize anything?


----------



## 2ntnuf

DeepDarkHole said:


> She's not been over to his place since I found out and confronted her, that I know about at any rate.
> 
> It ha only been a month, if she was sensible she'd stay away from anywhere that would be suspicious for a while. I know I would in that situation


Isn't once, one too many times? Have you ever had an affair while you've been married or engaged to this woman? Have you had affairs when you were committed to anyone in the past? What allows you to justify her finding another man to satisfy her sexual desires, instead of only you? 

Do you believe anyone can make a mistake and she just got caught up in feelings and such? Do you believe her emotions normally drive life changing decisions?


----------



## BetrayedDad

NoChoice said:


> And now says she has stopped yet she is doing weird things at lunchtime, sitting in her car in the parking lot or just down the street, which is weird since you said you take her to work most times but that is for another post. Ever heard of making out in a car? I bet S has. I am not trying to pile on you here but she sure is.


She's not making out with him in the car. That's what teenagers do. She's fvcking him in the car. That's what adults do. How do I know? Cause my ex used to do the same thing with her boss. C and S fvck like rabbits every chance they get because they get off on cuckolding you. She has ZERO respect for you and does NOT love you anymore (if she ever even did). Dump her and salvage whatever scrap of dignity you have left. 

You had nothing to do with her being the office wh0re. Please believe that. The lack of attention BS is her blame shifting and self justifying her slvt behavior. Your wife is remorseless, a liar, immoral and toxic. You could of been Brad Pitt and she still would of done this to you. She's a broken person. You got no kids, chalk it up as a mulligan and start over. Hit the gym and work on your self esteem. If you had any, you would of put her on the curb already like the trash she is. You know everything you need to know about the situation. This ones a slam dunk. Divorce her now.


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## manfromlamancha

DDH, you have got to be kidding me, mate!

Here is the situation as I see it:


This is not over in any shape or form. They have taken it underground a bit.

Your wife DOES NOT LOVE YOU! Let this sink in for a bit.

Your wife IS NOT A GOOD PERSON - she is a liar, a cheat, disrespectful and cruel - certainly not someone worth staying with.

Your wife is in love with the POSOM!

You handled the discovery, confrontation and everything after very badly and completely wrong. I guess you know that. You shouldn't have begged, the NC message she sent was pathetic ("I still care for you ..." - WTF!), the remorse wasn't for fu#k!ng the brains out of the guy but for being caught, the continuing friendship with the POS toxic enabling friend, and you sweeping the whole thing under the rug instead of kicking her out and divorcing. Of course she would start again and will continue to do so! No real consequences.

You need to stop looking for evidence - what for? She is kind of telling you that she still wants to be with him but for now, wants you hanging around. You seem to get some "cuckold" kind of weird pleasure from watching her from afar! You sat outside his house waiting patiently while they fu#ked, taking pictures when she came out! WTF! 

Not only does she not love you, but now she despises you too as being weak.

None of this cheating is your fault!

There is no way in the world I would think of taking her back - if for no other reason than rebuilding your self-esteem (which will help you move on, walk tall and even find a new worthier relationship). 

Consult a lawyer, initiate divorce proceedings, expose this affair far and wide complete with evidence, do the 180 and start working on healing yourself. 

There is no need to "confront" her - just get moving on this quickly and have her served like yesterday. Assume everything that she will say is a lie.

By the way, the company that she works for can be sued for alienation of affection and is enabling this - your lawyer can help you with this too. Especially since this is not his first rodeo! They should both be fired. You haven't been married that long and she is employable so you may not need to worry about spousal support or alimony.

The real question is can you do this? Now? Without hesitation?


----------



## D.H Mosquito

There is nothing left here for you it has gone past saving at the moment, move out file for divorce that may shake her up if not there is no harm living the single life and seeing who you want when you want you deserve much better than this mate


----------



## LongWalk

At the selfish gene level the commander of ovary control central wants her to get pregnant with OM's offspring while keeping you as the beta male that brings home protein and maybe dies defending her from predators.


----------



## ConanHub

Ain't no help for you. You probably won't take advice offered. You have behaved too soft and your wife views you like a toilet. Good to have around but only to shyt on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 2ntnuf

The thing is, even if she stays with him for a while, she will tire of this life and find a man who she can respect. If she could respect the other man and he would commit to her and show her signs of this, she would have been gone already. She is a cake eater.


----------



## happy as a clam

^ ^ ^

:iagree:

These last five posts from manfromlamancha, Mr. Useless, Long Walk, ConanHub and 2ntnuf are *BRUTAL.* But necessary. (Along with all the other great advice on this thread).

OP, are you *LISTENING?!?!* Take it from these TAMers, you are getting FREE counseling (probably would have cost you $1,500+ just to get a fraction of this advice from a counselor) that you simply can't ignore.

The $64,000 question is... are you going to take their advice? Or keep justifying her behavior and blaming yourself?


----------



## G.J.

DeepDarkHole please get a plan of action in motion at least beyond more justification
Everyone here including myself knows its beyond that


----------



## Chaparral

One of the golden rules of reconciliation is no contact...... At all.

They're texting, they're working together and other things you don't know about. There is no chance the cheating can stop need these conditions.

She evidently uses the car a lot, put a var in it. Put a var in the house for Friday.


----------



## lenzi

Wow everyone is beating up on this poor guy.

I get where he's coming from. He wants solid proof that the wife never gave up the affair before he walks away.

So let's give him advice about how to go about doing that, since most people are convinced she's still at it, it's only a matter of time before he gets his proof and takes the necessary steps to get her out of his life.

The VAR in the car is a good start, I know she doesn't always drive the car but it only takes once.


----------



## wmn1

lenzi said:


> Wow everyone is beating up on this poor guy.
> 
> I get where he's coming from. He wants solid proof that the wife never gave up the affair before he walks away.
> 
> So let's give him advice about how to go about doing that, since most people are convinced she's still at it, it's only a matter of time before he gets his proof and takes the necessary steps to get her out of his life.
> 
> The VAR in the car is a good start, I know she doesn't always drive the car but it only takes once.


pen var is a must


----------



## Locke.Stratos

'_Oh no, I know that she was sleeping with him. What I don't know is if she still is_'

- How is her having already cheated negated in that you need it to happen just one more time? Is there a set number of times you have allowed her to cheat and disrespect you?


'_*She describes herself as selfish, wanting that first flush of romance feeling all the time, even when she knows that once that has gone she has to deal with the mundaneness of life*_'


'_Where she showed remorse and swore that it was over yada yada yada_' - She has been lying to you for ages, why would you believe this?


'_Maybe she isn't the settling down type_' - Maybe? She clearly isn't.


'_But the feeling that if I had paid her more attention she may not have strayed is a hard one to shake_' - She is responsible for her choices, you do not and cannot control her. Tell me this, what could your wife have done to make you stray?


'_That's why I want to catch her in the act_' - You already had a chance to before but instead hid in your car for sixty excruciating minutes, you could have confronted her as she left S' place. What did you do in that time? Again I ask, why do you need to catch her in the act again?


'_It wont be long before she slips up again_' - It could be. I don't know if you are familiar with false reconciliation but it can last years, you do not want to be where you are now a few years from now and possibly with children involved.

'_That I am being paranoid_' - It's not paranoia, you are in a stress and trauma induced state of hypervigilance. 

Think about what she has done, I mean really think about it. If you are in desparate need of proof then hire a professional investigator.

I can understand your compulsion to be certain, you love your wife and were in no way prepared for this in your life.

Most of the people here are familiar with your situation so what might be evident to the posters here is not to you. If that is the case then take no half measures in finding out what you need to and be prepared to act when you do.


----------



## lenzi

She doesn't have a car at work:



DeepDarkHole said:


> VAR in the car wont work, more often than not I take her to work.


Yet she's spending lunch time in the car park:



DeepDarkHole said:


> at lunchtimes she is .. spending 30 minutes or so in the car park at work


She's outright lying about what she's told the OM:



DeepDarkHole said:


> On thursday evening last week she gave me a story that was a half truth about the texts on Wednesday, saying that she had had to dump S again by email that morning.


That's not a "half truth" that's an outright lie. She's still carrying on with him despite her promises to cut him off. She can't stay away from him. Even though he's gone so far as to threaten your life!

That's all the proof you really need.

If you want a quick solution you could look her straight in the eye, ask her outright what she's doing in the car park at lunchtime. Of course you'll blow your cover and you won't be able to track her in that way again, but let's see what sort of explanation she comes up with in the heat of the moment.

Since it's obviously highly likely she's with the OM in his car, what could she possibly say to you as a reasonable, acceptable answer? If you need more ammo, then you can throw in about how she's really not at the "usual staff canteen" thing, why did she lie about that and where was she really?

Be prepared to accept that she will not be able to give you a truthful answer, and unless she's some sort of master liar and manipulator, you'll see the truth all over her face as she tries to excuse her way out of it. And that, by itself will be enough to pull the plug once and for all.


----------



## vellocet

DeepDarkHole said:


> Like I say, I know that this is partly my fault, I am not trying to say that she is entirely in the wrong (there are better ways that she could have handled the problematic home life but it takes two to tango) but I can't trust her, and the more I know that she is hiding from me the less trust I feel.
> 
> Help!! (please)


Wrong. You are partly to blame for the health of your marriage which needs to be worked on by both of you.

You are NOT partly or in any way to blame for her going outside that marriage. That is COMPLETELY on her.

If you are going to say you are partly to blame for her choice to have an affair, then you might as well cower in front of her and let her wrap you around her finger.

So, getting that out of the way, what do you plan to do? She is still engaging in an affair because you are not putting your foot down.

Do you want to save your marriage? If so, don't go into it with a surrender mindset. You need to work on your end of the marriage bargain and she needs to be held accountable for her ultimate marriage betrayal.

So how are you going to tackle this? I recommend talking about the possibility of divorce if she is not going to stop with him. But you need to be prepared to go through with it...no bluffing. You have to be ready to divorce if she thinks you are bluffing and wants to call you on it.

For someone like her who is still in an affair after being caught, nothing will change unless she is faced with the family being torn apart over it.


----------



## badmemory

DDH,

Let me try to explain this with a little more empathy. You can successfully reconcile with her after she cheated. There are many posters here, including myself, who are in that process. I'd like to think no one here would try to convince you otherwise if they believed she was remorseful.

But here's the problem. Once they have been caught cheating, there can be absolutely *NO* contact, they can't work together, and they must be willing to accept all due consequences. Otherwise the cheating will likely continue and you'll wind up in a false R. 

The no contact, to include her quitting her job; is the first order of business. You've already allowed her to escape that consequence. So step one; tell her she must quit her job, send him a no contact letter, and be openly transparent so that you can verify that she has stopped contact. Right now, you are more worried about catching her again than taking the necessary steps to all but prevent it.

If she doesn't agree to that; there's no need to take the rest of the steps. You have to go straight to D. If she does agree, check back here for what to do next. That would just be the beginning of the long road to a successful R.

You can correct your mistakes. The same mistakes that a lot
other BS's make. It's up to you to follow the advice.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

vellocet said:


> You need to work on your end of the marriage bargain and she needs to be held accountable for her ultimate marriage betrayal.


Post of the day right there.. especially what I've singled out...ONLY own your end of the marriage bargain and the rest sits squarely on her table INCLUDING her choice to cheat. Can that be done with accuracy and compassion, yes, but what is important is the delineation between your ownership in this and hers. Vellocet has got it right on the money.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

OP:

I won't judge you but I will appeal to you. don't you wish to consider yourself, in fact don't you wish to be emotionally healthy, including a sufficient amount of self-respect?? you can't do this and stay married to C - you'll only be lying to yourself. do you want to be a father? if yes then all the more reason to leave her.
anyone can make a mistake and marry a lousy person (which I think she is based solely on what you have described about her), what there is no excuse for is to STAY married to that person.


----------



## Forest

Don't lose sight of the fact that these two people conspired against you. The POS OM set his sights on your wife, and intended to harm your marriage. 

At some point, your wife will pathetically, and untruthfully wail, "I didn't want to hurt you" or similar. Its a lie. She's tried hard to convince herself otherwise, and will try even harder to convince you. Its a lie. She won't fess up because it shows her true character, that hurting her husband is of lessor importance than her ego.


----------



## tom67

Sigh...
Don't know spidey sense.


----------



## DeepDarkHole

Thank you all. I do have a plan of action.

As there are quite a few posts for me to read I will pick out the highlights so if I don't quote or name you I am sorry.

1. Her phone can now be triggered to record ambient sounds. no need for a VAR, whereever she is I can listen in in real time.
2. I have read the 180 and I am starting to implement it
3. I have sent emails to a few local solicitors over night. waiting to see what will come back this morning.
4. She told me this morning that she will be bringing her work phne and laptop home tonight in case, her words, we get snow over the weekend and she can't make it into work on Monday. She never brings these items home unless she is going somewhere other than her office the next day. As she has a day off tomorrow the only reason I can see for it is so that she can keep emailing him. If she does bring them home I will get into her work phone and have a look at the emails.
5. Yes, one time finding her sleeping with someone else was enough. In fact more than enough. But that pain has already been dealt with. It can't hurt me anymore than it already has. So, I want to see her doing it again. Lunchtime today is a good place to start.

I will reiterate, Right now I only have a gut feeling (although I trust my gut a lot) and circumstantial evidence that she has partially justified. yes I know that she is lying to me and I am pretty sure that it is not over. The fact that there has been no contact this week that I have seen just shows me that it has been taken more underground. I want something, anything that I can put my finger on. Yes it will be painful, yes I am possibly stupid for waiting for it, but I have to do it for myself, to know that my gut is right.

All your advice is helpful, and I will be taking, have taken, all of it. But I have to do this first. I am getting everything ready, and after a sleepless night last night thinking I know that this is the only way forward.

I feel stronger, But also angrier


----------



## DeepDarkHole

I am a stupid, gullible, weak man.

There, I said it


----------



## LostAndContent

Things will get better once you leave her.


----------



## DeepDarkHole

LostAndContent said:


> Things will get better once you leave her.


Well, they certainly can't get any worse


----------



## arbitrator

Deep: I know that I've said some caustic things regarding your plight with your obviously unfaithful spouse. And I can somewhat understand your modus operandi in allowing her to take enough rope off of the reel to hang herself in your eyes ~ that ol' dog just ain't gonna hunt! To keep employing your "overkill" investigatory tactics is beginning to meet the criteria for embracing insanity ~ that is that you keep on doing the same things, expecting different results. Trust me, a leopard preeminently never changes its spots!

As is, you are nothing more than your WW's meal ticket, all while she keeps running over to that louts abode to get her sexual pleasures fulfilled, but then hurries right back home to you for food and other marital accoutrements that she can't seem to procure just yet over there. When that does ultimately come to happen, then your home and your life with her will be squarely centered in her rear view mirror, totally making you little more than yesterday's news.

Don't wait for the lawyers to call you back. Be on their doorstep the very first thing in the morning, not to save this shill of a marriage, but rather to save yourself and your financial well being.

I hate to see you in this position. Truth be known, the vast majority of us here at TAM have undergone quite similar circumstances as you have endured and will fastly attest that it is no picnic.

Well judging from all of the evidence presented thus far, the jury has already reached an overwhelming verdict of "Guilty" against her! Please do not continue to give her chance after chance to somehow try to come around in trying to redeem herself in your eyes.

Welcome to TAM! Hate to see you here but you've come to the right place for emotional healing!


----------



## G.J.

DeepDarkHole said:


> Thank you all. I do have a plan of action.
> 
> As there are quite a few posts for me to read I will pick out the highlights so if I don't quote or name you I am sorry.
> 
> 1. Her phone can now be triggered to record ambient sounds. no need for a VAR, whereever she is I can listen in in real time.
> 
> *Good*
> 
> 2. I have read the 180 and I am starting to implement it
> 
> *Good*
> 
> 3. I have sent emails to a few local solicitors over night. waiting to see what will come back this morning.
> 
> *Good*
> 
> 
> 4. She told me this morning that she will be bringing her work phne and laptop home tonight in case, her words, we get snow over the weekend and she can't make it into work on Monday. She never brings these items home unless she is going somewhere other than her office the next day. As she has a day off tomorrow the only reason I can see for it is so that she can keep emailing him. If she does bring them home I will get into her work phone and have a look at the emails.
> 
> *I live in the E.Midlands and there's no snow forecast for the next 7 days so its a lie*
> 
> 5. Yes, one time finding her sleeping with someone else was enough. In fact more than enough. But that pain has already been dealt with. It can't hurt me anymore than it already has. So, I want to see her doing it again. Lunchtime today is a good place to start.
> 
> I will reiterate, Right now I only have a gut feeling (although I trust my gut a lot) and circumstantial evidence that she has partially justified. yes I know that she is lying to me and I am pretty sure that it is not over. The fact that there has been no contact this week that I have seen just shows me that it has been taken more underground. I want something, anything that I can put my finger on. Yes it will be painful, yes I am possibly stupid for waiting for it, but I have to do it for myself, to know that my gut is right.
> 
> All your advice is helpful, and I will be taking, have taken, all of it. But I have to do this first. I am getting everything ready, and after a sleepless night last night thinking I know that this is the only way forward.
> 
> I feel stronger, But also angrier


Can you find out if her POSOM is at work that day ?
Is it worth getting VAR to put in house for Friday preff LG+BR


----------



## Augusto

dude.....have the ***** served


----------



## bfree

If you are trying to reconcile why is she still working at the same company? If you are going to file for divorce why haven't you done it yet? You're trying to tiptoe in between and all you've done is put yourself in limbo. So which is it? Reconciliation or divorce?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

This is your life. We are spectators (voyeurs, perhaps?). Everyone has a right to reconcile. You chose to do it. If you need proof that she has betrayed that trust you placed in her? Please do it. You have the pieces in place. You have a plan. Just a few more days. Sorry if it isn't fast enough for the bleacher bums. Do what you have to do.


----------



## 2ntnuf

You aren't stupid, gullible or weak. You love her despite all these things and you need the proof so you can live with yourself for what you might have to do. That's fine. 

Anger is good to an extent. It can motivate and insulate you. I'm sorry I was so harsh with you. This is hell.


----------



## DeepDarkHole

Harsh is fine, I have no problem with that. the comments here have woken me up to what I had been hiding from myself.

But, I want to reconcile. It was the reason I didn't kick her to the curb in the first place. I need to know that she does too. A conversation this lunchtime with a couple of collegues has also backed up what everyone else has siad. I am never going to know that it is over. The only proof I will ever get is that it is still going on. So I have to decide, do I take the no contact that I have seen for the last few days as a good sign? Do I keep monitoring her? The answers to those are no and yes respectively.

I made my views clear when I confronted her. I want our marraige to work. She made the same noises. Maybe I am being paranoid. Maybe not. But I am not blind anymore. I have a lot of reading to do and people to speak to over the next few days.

Apologies, two pints of Guinness at lunchtime makes me a little drunk.


----------



## bfree

If you want to reconcile you do realize that it will be impossible so long as she is still working at the same job. You do know that right?


----------



## lenzi

DeepDarkHole said:


> Maybe I am being paranoid. Maybe not.


You're not being paranoid. Despite her promises to the contrary, she's still involved with him, although you don't know to what extent. She's still in contact with him and lying to you about it and her whereabouts.


----------



## convert

DeepDarkHole said:


> Harsh is fine, I have no problem with that. the comments here have woken me up to what I had been hiding from myself.
> 
> But, I want to reconcile. It was the reason I didn't kick her to the curb in the first place. I need to know that she does too. A conversation this lunchtime with a couple of collegues has also backed up what everyone else has siad. I am never going to know that it is over. The only proof I will ever get is that it is still going on. So I have to decide, do I take the no contact that I have seen for the last few days as a good sign? Do I keep monitoring her? The answers to those are no and yes respectively.
> 
> I made my views clear when I confronted her. I want our marraige to work. She made the same noises. Maybe I am being paranoid. Maybe not. But I am not blind anymore. I have a lot of reading to do and people to speak to over the next few days.
> 
> Apologies, two pints of Guinness at lunchtime makes me a little drunk.



i am pro R (reconcile) but for this to work there has to be NO CONTACT at all.
Meaning she has to quit or the OM has to quit their job.

and you should expose to all put him on cheaterville

and yes if you want to stay you will still have to keep an eye on her----It is very tiring, trust me I know---


----------



## convert

bfree said:


> If you want to reconcile you do realize that it will be impossible so long as she is still working at the same job. You do know that right?


:iagree:


----------



## 2ntnuf

The problem with telling her you want to reconcile is that you are telling her you will put up with much more. She can and may well be using your feelings for her to her advantage. This is part of the harshness of posts. Most folks here know how that will likely affect you. It can rip you to shreds and send you to the nuthouse. Anger will effectively prevent that if you use it properly. Most WS' must be shaken from their beliefs in a similar manner. They must be motivated to look at things from a more logical perspective. That's the reason you file for divorce an implement the 180. The other reason for implementing the 180 is for self-preservation. It will help you to get stronger in the sense that you will find other things to do on your own and you will not feel as reliant on her love to validate your existence. 

As others have said, you do not have to complete the divorce. You just must initially file and be serious about it. If she suspects you are not serious, she will take advantage of that as a weakness. 

She reads you well now, or she wouldn't have been able to pull this off as long as she has. Anything you tell her will only be used against you to further her interests. She will gaslight and control you through your emotions, whether it be to reduce your anger, to make you believe things which aren't true, to meet with the OM, or to entice you into making mistakes that will hurt you financially and legally if she does plan for divorce. I believe she is doing at least some of those now. 

Follow what these other members tell you to do. Force her to make a decision about what she wants to do, rather than giving her time to play with the OM and formulate a more deceptive and convincing plan. 

Read the stickies in the CWI section. You need them. You have to be willing to lose her, to win her back. I truly don't think it is worth it, though, since you don't have any children. There are likely other women out there who would be a joy to be married with instead of the one you have.


----------



## ThePheonix

Deep, my man, at the risk of getting kicked off this site, just how naive are you? Your old lady ain't trying to let him down easy. She's trying to let you down easy, hoping you'll take the hint. Take my word for it dawg, in the meantime you are no more than a base camp for her operation. You're a means to an end. In a way, I can hardly blame her. She's knows you've got a complete picture of what she's doing and you stand around with your hand in you pockets virtually apologizing for giving her a reason for f-ing another guy, looking like a sheep that's just been sheared. She's got you keeping a roof over her head and this guy on the side while you shamelessly enable her with lame excuses about needing more evidence. What does she need to do, bang the guy in your bed while you sleep next to them. She has no respect for you and why should she. You're the laughing stock of the outfit she works for.
My prediction is that you're going to keep "data mining" until one day she dumps you hard, low self esteem, beta personality, and all.

BTW, quite using the word "paranoid". Paranoid is an irrational fear. You know what's going on. When you know whats going on, you're not being paranoid.


----------



## badmemory

DDH,

Please explain your reasoning for not insisting that she quit her job.


----------



## ThePheonix

lenzi said:


> How is this helpful?


Ok, I cleaned it up.

But before I get temporarily or permanently signed off, I'll add this. It seems that most are missing a key element of "reconciliation". In all cases, the cheating spouse has to want to reconcile at least as much as the injured spouse.


----------



## tulsy

bfree said:


> If you want to reconcile you do realize that it will be impossible so long as she is still working at the same job. You do know that right?


Exactly.



DeepDarkHole said:


> ... I am never going to know that it is over. The only proof I will ever get is that it is still going on. ....


Your main concern seems to be whether or not they are still sleeping together. 

Consider this:

IF they are still in contact IN ANY WAY, it's not over.
IF they are still texting/emailing/phone calls, it's not over.
IF she is still working with him, it's not over.
IF she is still emotionally invested in this guy IN ANY WAY, it's still not over.

If you serve her now, and begin the 180, she'll see that you are not putting up with it any more. It may be the only way she could possibly "snap out of the fog". It may be the only way to get her to actually give up the other man and want you back.

If she's in any contact with him, you're wasting your time trying to reconcile. You simply can't save a marriage on your own, it takes 2 people who really want it to work. Right now she's still invested in the OM, so she's not committed to you and the marriage. Unless SHE removes HIM from HER life, there's no hope.

You really need to consider the "shock and awe" of exposure, filing, and 180. It puts you back in the driver seat and forces others to make choices and take action. 

You can't sit and wait for things to happen, you really should take charge. Besides, women find it very attractive.

I get the impression that you almost want to catch her in the act again, but really, for what? It still leaves you in the same position you are now.

If you want reconciliation, you want her to choose you! Make her choose, and don't give her time to decide.

In the meantime, please take good care of yourself. Don't spend your time drinking and miserable. Eat right and exercise like mad, taking any aggression out in the gym. Get a haircut and some new clothes. Start filling up your extra-curricular time with things outside of the house that don't involve her. Join a hot-yoga class, the local spin class, the running room, etc. Start the 180, bro.


----------



## GusPolinski

DeepDarkHole said:


> Harsh is fine, I have no problem with that. the comments here have woken me up to what I had been hiding from myself.
> 
> But, I want to reconcile. It was the reason I didn't kick her to the curb in the first place. I need to know that she does too. A conversation this lunchtime with a couple of collegues has also backed up what everyone else has siad. I am never going to know that it is over. The only proof I will ever get is that it is still going on. So I have to decide, do I take the no contact that I have seen for the last few days as a good sign? Do I keep monitoring her? The answers to those are no and yes respectively.
> 
> I made my views clear when I confronted her. I want our marraige to work. She made the same noises. Maybe I am being paranoid. Maybe not. But I am not blind anymore. I have a lot of reading to do and people to speak to over the next few days.
> 
> Apologies, two pints of Guinness at lunchtime makes me a little drunk.


Well, not only is she still working w/ OM, she's also (at the very least) still having some very inappropriate conversations w/ him. Both of these things say loads about her desire to reconcile, and none of it is good.


----------



## GusPolinski

tulsy said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Your main concern seems to be whether or not they are still sleeping together.
> 
> *Consider this:
> 
> IF they are still in contact IN ANY WAY, it's not over.
> IF they are still texting/emailing/phone calls, it's not over.
> IF she is still working with him, it's not over.
> IF she is still emotionally invested in this guy IN ANY WAY, it's still not over.*
> 
> If you serve her now, and begin the 180, she'll see that you are not putting up with it any more. It may be the only way she could possibly "snap out of the fog". It may be the only way to get her to actually give up the other man and want you back.
> 
> If she's in any contact with him, you're wasting your time trying to reconcile. You simply can't save a marriage on your own, it takes 2 people who really want it to work. Right now she's still invested in the OM, so she's not committed to you and the marriage. Unless SHE removes HIM from HER life, there's no hope.
> 
> You really need to consider the "shock and awe" of exposure, filing, and 180. It puts you back in the driver seat and forces others to make choices and take action.
> 
> You can't sit and wait for things to happen, you really should take charge. Besides, women find it very attractive.
> 
> I get the impression that you almost want to catch her in the act again, but really, for what? It still leaves you in the same position you are now.
> 
> If you want reconciliation, you want her to choose you! Make her choose, and don't give her time to decide.
> 
> In the meantime, please take good care of yourself. Don't spend your time drinking and miserable. Eat right and exercise like mad, taking any aggression out in the gym. Get a haircut and some new clothes. Start filling up your extra-curricular time with things outside of the house that don't involve her. Join a hot-yoga class, the local spin class, the running room, etc. Start the 180, bro.


Yep.


----------



## NoChoice

Dark,
I am also very much pro R but there can be no R without full and total devotion from the WS. You cannot R alone, it just isn't possible. Read my post on page one, nothing has changed. If there is any possiblity of this working out positively BOTH parties need to be full on board. Her continuing to text, talk to, and even think about S is NOT full on board.

Again, as I said in my first post, time is against you here because she sees inaction as acceptance on your part and it just gets even more deeply rooted. If she sincerely wants to R she would be asking you "what can I do to make this right, I'll do anything?". Is she saying that? No=insincere. You are desperate to R your marriage but if she is not saying the above then she is not. You'll never hear the Maitre d' say "reconciliation, party of one". It takes two dedicated people to fix a marriage. However, you will hear "rugsweep, party of one".


----------



## 2ntnuf

Rugsweep party of two. He can pay for her affair. She'll let him, if he wants, for a while, until she finds that guy who is just right for her. 

You think it hurts now? Wait till then. It will eff you up, bad. No one wants to see that, and it's likely your wife either doesn't care or does want that. You don't know the lengths some humans will go to for their own selfish desires. You don't know her, or you would not have been surprised.


----------



## stunned

Deep, 
The reason everyone here is being so harsh is that if you lurk on this site long enough, you will observe so many people make the EXACT SAME mistakes that you are making. And they ALL end up getting hurt. It is so frustrating to see you going down this path when we all have seen virtually everyone else who has done it fail. And fail miserably. The folks here helping you have seen this all before many many times. It's always the same. PLEASE listen to us. 
- She is still lying to you
- She is apparently in some parking lot with him at lunch(??)
- She is still in contact with him EVERY DAY

This woman is showing no remorse, no desire to change, and gives no indication that she takes your "threats" (if you've made any) seriously. Stand up for yourself. 
- DEMAND that she quits her job for the sole reason that if she's serious about wanting to reconcile, then she must sever all contact. This happens NOW. TODAY.
- She immediately ends any and all contact with him. TODAY.
- She provides you full transparency to everything - phone, passwords to email, social networking, etc... 

If she balks at ANY of this, walk away, go straight to your lawyer's office, file, and have her served. When she gets the papers, she MAY then realize you are serious. If not, then you don't want her anyway. 

If you are not willing to do all of this, then I'm not sure there's much more we can do for you other than console you when your world crashes down. Because it will. And soon.


----------



## tulsy

stunned said:


> Deep,
> The reason everyone here is being so harsh ...
> 
> - DEMAND that she quits her job for the sole reason that if she's serious about wanting to reconcile, then she must sever all contact. This happens NOW. TODAY.
> - She immediately ends any and all contact with him. TODAY.
> - She provides you full transparency to everything - phone, passwords to email, social networking, etc...
> ...


I don't even consider the advice "harsh", it's just honest and from experience. 

With all do respect,
I would actually suggest going about things differently:

Don't demand she quit her job. Don't demand she end contact, and don't demand she provides full transparency. You just aren't at that stage yet.

File for divorce, have her served (possibly at work in front of all her enablers), expose and start the 180. If there is any part of her that wants to save the marriage, SHE'LL come to you begging "What can I do". Let her prove to you that she wants to save things, otherwise, it's just you "trying to control her", or whatever she tells all her friends and family.

Leave it up to her to do the heavy lifting and rebuilding. You don't want to FORCE her to be with you, you want her to give up everything (job, OM, etc) to be with you. 

If you start making demands she'll use it against you. She'll also just continue to keep her affair underground and hidden from you. There is no incentive for her to do what you ask because unless you have filed for divorce, there is no clear consequence for her.

Honestly, you don't want her unless she'll do whatever it takes to make things right.


----------



## ThePheonix

GusPolinski said:


> Well, not only is she still working w/ OM, she's also (at the very least) still having some very inappropriate conversations w/ him.


Notwithstanding the two of them taking inventory in the supply closet.


----------



## ThePheonix

tulsy said:


> File for divorce, have her served (possibly at work in front of all her enablers), expose and start the 180. If there is any part of her that wants to save the marriage, SHE'LL come to you begging "What can I do". Let her prove to you that she wants to save things, otherwise, it's just you "trying to control her", or whatever she tells all her friends and family.


Exactly. And when she ask why, tell her, "Baby I love you but I can see youre torn between me an XX, So I'm divorcing you to allow you be unfettered in deciding who you want to be with. With the divorce you'll be free and have ample time to spend with him and decide if he's want you want. You can't do that with me in the picture. That's how much I love you. Your happiness is everything to me, no matter where it leads. 
If down the road it does not work out between ya'll, call me. If I have time and can work you in, maybe we'll talk."


----------



## lenzi

ThePheonix said:


> Exactly. And when she ask why, tell her, "Baby I love you but I can see youre torn between me an XX, So I'm divorcing you to allow you be unfettered in deciding who you want to be with. With the divorce you'll be free and have ample time to spend with him and decide if he's want you want. You can't do that with me in the picture. That's how much I love you. *Your happiness is everything to me, no matter where it leads. *
> If down the road it does not work out between ya'll, call me. If I have time and can work you in, maybe we'll talk."


The bold part is rather lame.


----------



## ThePheonix

Sure it is lenzi.


----------



## tulsy

ThePheonix said:


> Exactly. And when she ask why, tell her, "Baby I love you but I can see youre torn between me an XX, So I'm divorcing you to allow you be unfettered in deciding who you want to be with. With the divorce you'll be free and have ample time to spend with him and decide if he's want you want. You can't do that with me in the picture. That's how much I love you. Your happiness is everything to me, no matter where it leads.
> If down the road it does not work out between ya'll, call me. If I have time and can work you in, maybe we'll talk."


Personally, I wouldn't be as nice about it. I mean, look at what she did/is doing...at some point, it really should rile up some anger, no? I don't think any woman would find that attractive, it comes across as "baby, I'm your doormat, here for you and your boyfriend to wipe their feet on...and I'll always be there, ready to be your plan B". Sorry, but that's how it feels to me.

She threw away her marriage, got caught and still continued. That's extremely brutal abandon.

I would scrap that "your happiness means everything" approach and opt for more of a 180, avoid her, move into the basement and put the house up for sale, ignore her approach, and only IF she approaches you for "what can I do" would I offer anything, which would be more of a "you're kidding, right? Do I have to spell out what you should and shouldn't do to save our marriage? How about for starter you get back on OUR team, and dump our opponents".

She's a big girl. She knows exactly what it takes to save her marriage. If she wants to save it, she'll do whatever it takes. 

If he approaches it like a doormat, she'll probably doubt his motives to actually follow through with the divorce.

If she can see he is FOR REAL, he's ready to bolt and move on from her and her crap, it may, MAY, be enough to wake her up from La-La Land.


----------



## 2ntnuf

I'm leaning the direction of Deep not needing any more proof. I think it's a waste of time. I do understand he has to somehow believe in what he is doing before he can fully commit. It's also a somewhat weak approach, because I believe her message is clear. She knew what she was doing. She wanted him to choose her by changing something about himself that would meet some need he wasn't fulfilling. She figured her last chance was to start an EA, which is now a full blown PA because he didn't understand or turned a blind eye to what was in front of him. He became more entrenched in denial because he believed all she would do is come and talk with him in a manner like most men talk. Trouble is, she doesn't know how or want to do that. She likely figures, if he doesn't figure this out and fight for her, she doesn't want him. 

That's my guess, anyway. 

She has her life and is confident she will be alright. We don't even know what was going on that led to this. We don't know how he treats her at home. Although, seems like he treats her okay, we don't know. 

I like the idea of exposing. If it's okay, then why would it bother her for work to know? If it's not, it was her choice anyway, what she did to get her husband's attention and work on the problems in the marriage. She didn't ask Deep's opinion, as far as we know.


----------



## ThePheonix

tulsy said:


> Personally, I wouldn't be as nice about it.


I'z being facetious my man. But I can't help it. I'm like the song by Ambrosia (revised the lyrics a little)

_Well I don't know how this whole business started
Of me thinkin' that you've have been untrue
But I think that we'd be better parted
It's gonna hurt me but I'll break away from you
Well I'm given you the sign I'll be gone
Yeah....

That's how much I feel
Feel for you baby
How much I need
I need your touch
How much I live
I live for your lovin'
That's how much
That's how much
That's how much
That's how much_


----------



## lenzi

He's got the ambient phone recordings set to go. She brought home her laptop and phone, indicating that she's heading somewhere tomorrow. 

Friday will be a big day for him. 

I for one am looking forward to an update. 

The sarcasm, the jokes, the insults, the badgering are not useful.

Let's not give him reasons to keep us in the dark.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

ThePheonix said:


> I'z being facetious my man. But I can't help it. I'm like the song by Ambrosia (revised the lyrics a little)
> 
> _Well I don't know how this whole business started
> Of me thinkin' that you've have been untrue
> But I think that we'd be better parted
> It's gonna hurt me but I'll break away from you
> Well I'm given you the sign I'll be gone
> Yeah....
> 
> That's how much I feel
> Feel for you baby
> How much I need
> I need your touch
> How much I live
> I live for your lovin'
> That's how much
> That's how much
> That's how much
> That's how much_


I am so glad you were being facetious because that made me physically ill.


----------



## GusPolinski

Blossom Leigh said:


> I am so glad you were being facetious because that made me physically ill.


Imagine that, while singing what I'm assuming is the chorus (specifically, every time that the "how much" lyric comes up), the singer is making a certain gesture w/ his middle finger. Then it all makes sense!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

GusPolinski said:


> Imagine that, while singing what I'm assuming is the chorus (specifically, every time that the "how much" lyric comes up), the singer is making a certain gesture w/ his middle finger. Then it all makes sense!



lol yep


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## 2ntnuf

GusPolinski said:


> Imagine that, while singing what I'm assuming is the chorus (specifically, every time that the "how much" lyric comes up), the singer is making a certain gesture w/ his middle finger. Then it all makes sense!


That singer is just telling his ex, she is #1. He just doesn't use his index finger.


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## ThePheonix

Blossom Leigh said:


> I am so glad you were being facetious because that made me physically ill.


Well I was Blossom. But you being a woman and all, and any reconciliation is dependent on both, what's your take on how is Deep's wife feels about him in respect to her shenanigans? Do you think a woman with love and respect for her husband could behave as purported? Not trying to put you on the spot. (or maybe if I wasn't so phlegmatic I'd see you've already addressed this.


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## vellocet

DeepDarkHole said:


> I am a stupid, gullible, weak man.
> 
> There, I said it


No you are not. Being betrayed in one of the worst ways messes with our minds. Believe me, I was there.

It took me about a month to snap out of it and was able to think clearly without the desperation of my situation consuming me.

I believe you will snap out of it sooner or later. Then start getting angry, and no, that's not a bad thing. You need to get angry.


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## ThePheonix

DeepDarkHole said:


> I am a stupid, gullible, weak man.


Deep, somehow I doubt that. I can see that you want her and that you need her but you need to draw a line in the sand Dawg. You need to push back and put a stop to her crap. You'll never hear a woman say, "I love and adore my husband so much because he lets me f around."


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## Blossom Leigh

ThePheonix said:


> Well I was Blossom. But you being a woman and all, and any reconciliation is dependent on both, what's your take on how is Deep's wife feels about him in respect to her shenanigans? Do you think a woman with love and respect for her husband could behave as purported? Not trying to put you on the spot. (or maybe if I wasn't so phlegmatic I'd see you've already addressed this.


Depends on the type of respect... 

The type of respect that is blended with true humility, honor and compassion, no she wouldn't

The type of respect that is solely fear based, yes, its possible

The first kind takes a heart that has learned to value what is good, uphold what is right, acts in love, mourns destruction.

Right now, she is blind to the destruction. Nothing will change until she sees it. He has to allow her to feel it. Right now he is protecting her out of fear of losing her. But she is already lost. Protecting her in this state is nonproductive. You have to rip back the veil so she sees for herself how lost she is.


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## ThePheonix

Thanks Blossom. That clears up a lot of ambiguity about the action Deep needs to take.

Deep, she has given you the silver bullet my man. You need to use it.


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## G.J.

Good luck today

hope you got those VARs in the house

Is the POSOM at work today?


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## DeepDarkHole

He's at work. She hasn't texted him so far and nothing has happened at the house. She has taken her work laptop and phone home with her but she has changed all the access codes on those so I can't get into them. Currently she is doing nothing suspicious.


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## G.J.

DeepDarkHole said:


> He's at work. She hasn't texted him so far and nothing has happened at the house. She has taken her work laptop and phone home with her but she has changed all the access codes on those so I can't get into them. Currently she is doing nothing suspicious.


How will you know if he comes to your house for an hour or two at dinner or she goes to his....she may not use her own phone that you have software turned on


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## DeepDarkHole

SMSTracker doesn't just track SMS's it also tells me things like when the screen is turned on and off. Over the last few weeks I have noticed that about every 10 minutes she turns it on for about a second (presumably to check if she has received anything) If that stops happening for any length of time then that in itself is suspicious.


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## G.J.

DeepDarkHole said:


> SMSTracker doesn't just track SMS's it also tells me things like when the screen is turned on and off. Over the last few weeks I have noticed that about every 10 minutes she turns it on for about a second (presumably to check if she has received anything) If that stops happening for any length of time then that in itself is suspicious.


Yes but proves nothing to you as you want *IN YOUR FACE *proof

Time is the factor here...it may have not yet have gone PA again..... YET

*I think it has*

Oh you didn't install those VARs did you  ?


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## DeepDarkHole

No, I didn't. I haven't had time to get one yet.

I have a plan however, I have to get through this weekend first (family party that my son gave up a personal thing to go to so I can't cancel it). However, on Sunday evening I am going to confront her. As you all have said I already have what I need, I am just holding out for something concrete. But even without that her behaviour is not what I need it to be and certainly not what a woman who is wanting to reconcile should be exhibiting.


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## G.J.

DeepDarkHole said:


> No, I didn't. I haven't had time to get one yet.
> 
> I have a plan however, I have to get through this weekend first (family party that my son gave up a personal thing to go to so I can't cancel it). However, on Sunday evening I am going to confront her. As you all have said I already have what I need, I am just holding out for something concrete. But even without that her behaviour is not what I need it to be and certainly not what a woman who is wanting to reconcile should be exhibiting.


If you decide to do that I suggest you post on here a detailed bullet pointed list of what you intend to do and outline what you are going to say

A lot of people on this site know how to handle a confrontation depending on what out come you eventually want/seek

Some may want you to get the divorce papers in your hand and give them to her as it will slap her back into reality so I strongly suggest you get some thing today

A D8 + D80A form would be good to have - Can be printed from gov.uk


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## arbitrator

You're advice is spot-on, GJ!


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## happy as a clam

DeepDarkHole said:


> SMSTracker doesn't just track SMS's it also tells me things like when the screen is turned on and off. Over the last few weeks I have noticed that about every 10 minutes she turns it on for about a second (presumably to check if she has received anything) If that stops happening for any length of time then that in itself is suspicious.


How do you know she is not using a burner phone? If she's texting on a burner, your ambient recorder won't pick up any of it.


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## GusPolinski

happy as a clam said:


> How do you know she is not using a burner phone? If she's texting on a burner, your ambient recorder won't pick up any of it.


It will if she's using it in proximity to her primary phone. Of course that's assuming that OP either toggles it on at around that time or that it gets triggered by her conversation on the burner.


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## badmemory

DeepDarkHole said:


> She has taken her work laptop and phone home with her but *she has changed all the access codes on those so I can't get into them*.
> 
> *Currently she is doing nothing suspicious.*


Seriously? You don't think changing the access codes is suspicious?


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## DeepDarkHole

badmemory said:


> Seriously? You don't think changing the access codes is suspicious?


I think it is very suspicious


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## Divinely Favored

She does not have to talk or text as she can email on work computer.


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## ThePheonix

If you want private, intimate conversation you need to stay off the work computer/email. They are probably not that stupid.


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## GusPolinski

If she uses her laptop in any sort of docking station, consider a USB keylogger. Of course it may be too late for you to get your hands on one now...


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## Blossom Leigh

that's funny...


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## 2ntnuf

Do you think you still need more evidence that she isn't thinking of your best interests as the man she pledged to love, honor and cherish? 

Do you think this is enough to file for a divorce, which can be revoked just by letting it run out in many cases, and have her served at work?

Do you believe you need to have visual evidence? You can buy kits that have black lights and chemicals which will highlight body fluids. I am a little skeptical of this being proof of semen, but some folks used to like doing that. 

What are the laws in your state concerning video or sound recordings. A google search might help you to know what you can do legally, without getting yourself in legal trouble. She does have the right and an expectation of certain rights to privacy. 

I suggest you look into those things before you go too far. 

Really, she has given you as much evidence as a person needs to make a decision on R or D. So far, she doesn't care about the marriage, it seems. 

I'm hoping you take this in the spirit meant. I'm hoping you see the down side of espionage. There was a thread here where someone saw a tape of their wife and the AP, or maybe that was an audio recording? It can take all your strength to listen to that. I don't recommend it for the faint of heart. I don't recommend it for anyone, really. It's certainly your choice.

Did you ever check out what was going on at lunch in the parking lot?


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## arbitrator

Your obsession with this is border lining paranoia. You have the smoking gun and the motive in your W's apparent and wanton infidelity. The evidence you now hold against her is more than compelling enough to nail her skivvies to the crap house wall! Your beating a dead horse here. Your next communication should be with a good family law attorney to help extricate you from this mess and help you move on with the rest of your life!


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## ThePheonix

2ntnuf said:


> She does have the right and an expectation of certain rights to privacy.


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## 2ntnuf

ThePheonix said:


>


She's cute. 

So you think he should gather more evidence? I guess it depends on if his state is no-fault and there's plenty to lose.


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## ThePheonix

He had more than enough to convince me long ago. I think the words of a song done by a close relative of mine explains what's going through Deeps mind. But this song applies to many here. Deep's just hoping all his efforts lead him to a dead end. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65VzVXCP248&list=PL98E7164BB1E87BB7&index=2


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## arbitrator

Community property state maybe?


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## Blossom Leigh

Goodness that song is pitiful..


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## 2ntnuf

ThePheonix said:


> He had more than enough to convince me long ago. I think the words of a song done by a close relative of mine explains what's going through Deeps mind. But this song applies to many here. Deep's just hoping all his efforts lead him to a dead end.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65VzVXCP248&list=PL98E7164BB1E87BB7&index=2


Good song. It applied(s) to me as well. What I found is, there usually isn't a whole lot you can do about it. I guess if he wants to expose her, it's imperative to have evidence. That would help him move on. 

I didn't get a chance to do that. I wasn't here yet. I was too messed up by the folks who were friends of my ex, who made my life at work a living hell by spreading rumors about what a nasty man I am and finding ways to prove they were right. I was defending myself needlessly, however, I didn't know how else to handle it. I was a mental and emotional mess. 

Even today, if I had anything I could use, I'd consider exposing. 

It wouldn't do much good, though, just (in)validate what I believe. Either way, what I've found is that, if she doesn't want to be with me, she won't be, and there is really very little I can do to change her mind. Once there is sex, something changes that can never go back. I believe, if you don't stop it before sex, it's too late. Unless there is reason to find that evidence to protect yourself, it really won't do much of anything. 

In other words, it may bread them up, but she'll find another soon enough. When she is done, she is done. There was a time when I believed differently and truly wanted revenge on the AP, but I realize scum goes with scum. Nothing can change that, once that line is crossed. You either accept that, and work with what you have, or move on. 

Sometimes I think, once that line is crossed, no holds are barred. If the BS finds an interested, willing partner, it doesn't matter if they go for it or not. Too many have taken the saying, "All is fair in love and war", too literally. I guess my faith in humanity is gone.


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## ThePheonix

Blossom Leigh said:


> Goodness that song is pitiful..


To redeem him Blossom, here's a couple more he wrote/co-authored and/or performed. They represent what marriage should be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWA-vVmgbVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzRhrBCHiBU


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## arbitrator

2ntnuf: Much like you, I'm greatly perplexed by the men and women, who stand before the holy church alters and take those solemn vows; and then frivilously mock at those very same words that they themselves had duly pledged before God, their family, their church, and their friends, by making themselves a party to covert infidelity, all in the selfish and uncaring pursuit of their own personal pleasures!

And the really sad thing is they don't really give a damn!

Perhaps they will when they get to face God one day!


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## 2ntnuf

arbitrator said:


> 2ntnuf: Much like you, I'm greatly perplexed by the men and women, who stand before the holy church alters and take those solemn vows; and then frivilously mock at those very same words that they themselves had duly pledged before God, their family, their church, and their friends, by making themselves a party to covert infidelity, all in the selfish and uncaring pursuit of their own personal pleasures!
> 
> And the really sad thing is they don't really give a damn!
> 
> Perhaps they will when they get to face God one day!


Thank you. I guess I wrote that to help explain my position on this. I guess I wrote it for Deep to read and think on, before he gets hurt. I don't really know him. It may not bother hm at all. I just know what knowing too much can do to a man who loves his wife and believed she would never do that to him. It's a hard lesson to learn that we can never really believe until it happens. 

And, if she had believed who she really was, instead of trying to believe in that woman she wanted to be, she would have been able to be truthful with herself and me, long before she made the choice to stray. Again, so many blame their choice on the victim, it's disheartening and takes time and understanding to know they were like that all along. Most will never realize it was them. Those are the ones who are more likely to do it again and again with little remorse and plenty of justification. 

Thank you Arb. I'm not triggered. I'm playing a bit of a spoiler and providing personal experience in an attempt to help Deep see he has choices. Choices allow us to feel free and accept things more easily.


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## arbitrator

Well articulated, 2-Man!


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## G.J.

DeepDarkHole how did it go Sunday ?


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## DeepDarkHole

Hmm, Actually it happened on friday. Stupidly I was listening to music at work and ht a song that really got to me (finally the tears came)

So we had a long chat on Friday night, Told her what I thought (without giving away that I was tracking her) Told her how I felt, How it didn't seem right etc.

She told me again that he had had no contact with him except a couple of times at work when she was either angry (replying to his emails) or distractred (when they said hello to each other).

I suggested that we ought ot go to counciling and she agreed, to the point that she has booked the session and paid for it.

For now I am waiting. Next Tuesday I pick up my son for Christmas. He has been excited about having Christmas with us since June when we organised it, so I want to see what happens over the next fortnight. If they are in regular contact (and I have seen no evidence of this since 6th December, only some things that made me suspicious.) then a week out of the office should throw something up.

As I have said before, I could just be being suspicious about nothing, she could actually be telling the truth, or enough of the truth to be needed. She seems to show genuine remorse. This weekend she didn't touch her cell phone and as I was with her for all of it she certainly wasn't using any other cell phone.

So, for now I shall wait and see. I have already been hurt and I have already accepted the possibility that it is still happening. Finding out wont hurt any more than I already am. She knows that I don't trust her but there comes a point where I have to start trusting her otherwise reconciliation is never going to happen.

I spoke to a lawyer on Friday, so I know what I need to do if it comes to that. but I need to get Christmas out of the way first.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

DeepDarkHole said:


> As I have said before, I could just be being suspicious about nothing, she could actually be telling the truth, or enough of the truth to be needed. She seems to show genuine remorse. This weekend she didn't touch her cell phone and as I was with her for all of it she certainly wasn't using any other cell phone.


If they did, or are having sex, it's doubtful that it's taking place at work. They could be going out to "lunch" together and doing it then.

A VAR SECURELY attached underneath the seat in her car might get you some answers.

Of course, if they leave in his car if/when this happens you wouldn't hear anything if they are having lunch time meetings. But she could call a GF on her way home. This would be information that she would never willingly give you.


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## tom67

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> If they did, or are having sex, it's doubtful that it's taking place at work. They could be going out to "lunch" together and doing it then.
> 
> A VAR SECURELY attached underneath the seat in her car might get you some answers.
> 
> Of course, if they leave in his car if/when this happens you wouldn't hear anything if they are having lunch time meetings. But she could call a GF on her way home. This would be information that she would never willingly give you.


You could get a pen var for her purse though.


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## 2ntnuf

Seems like some kind of tracker on her phone would let him know where she is at during lunch?


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## badmemory

DeepDarkHole said:


> She told me again that he had had no contact with him except a couple of times at work when she was either angry (replying to his emails) or distractred (when they said hello to each other).


For some reason you are not willing to accept or even respond to all the posters' advice about the importance of her quitting her job. So, I'll make these last statements to you and then I'm out of here.

If you're wanting to R with her; you will come to regret that you didn't force the issue. Whether your reason be for finances or your fear of divorce; you won't have a successful R while they have contact at work. It's just that simple.

The only reason for not insisting that she do so, would be if you had made up your mind to D, and you were trying to avoid or reduce possible alimony.

Good luck.


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## G.J.

So....nothing really other than what she has already said but it still leaves

1.


> she will be bringing her work phne and laptop home tonight in case, her words, we get snow over the weekend and she can't make it into work on Monday


which is ridicules as there was no snow forecast for the next 7 days on Thursday *so clearly another motive*
You didn't install a VAR in the house so if she had left the phone there you had no way of knowing where she was .....also the OM could have left work at dinner

2.What is she doing in her lunch breaks for 30 mins as she lies about this to you?

3.You said 3 days ago


> yes I know that she is lying to me and I am pretty sure that it is not over.The fact that there has been no contact this week that I have seen just shows me that it has been taken more underground.


4.Dont forget you said


> *You've got me thinking about the burner phone now.*


5.Dont forget 2 weeks ago she said


> ."*I still care about you deeply* and I really would like to be friends with you. Proper friends (not.kissing friends). We shared so much.... But.if that's too painful that's fine. We don't need.to keep in.contact. And we can only be in contact at work anyway"


I hate to say this but you need to be pro active in pursuing the evidence you need to make a decision as she is completely blinding you.
Get a VAR and allow her use of your car a little more as she will slip up
Get over there a few times at dinner and stake out the car park when she hasn't got your car
Us VAR next time she's at home
And carry on FULL ON with the 180 for your own sake - I hope it doesn't happen but I think xmas may be gut wrenching for you as you sound such a nice guy who always thinks the glass is half full BUT in this case if you read other posts on TAM you will see she's following the normal cheating spouse pattern

Still working with her OM will eventually lead back into a PA if indeed it has stopped guaranteed


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## GusPolinski

DeepDarkHole said:


> Hmm, Actually it happened on friday. Stupidly I was listening to music at work and ht a song that really got to me (finally the tears came)
> 
> So we had a long chat on Friday night, Told her what I thought (without giving away that I was tracking her) Told her how I felt, How it didn't seem right etc.
> 
> She told me again that he had had no contact with him except a couple of times at work when she was either angry (replying to his emails) or distractred (when they said hello to each other).
> 
> I suggested that we ought ot go to counciling and she agreed, to the point that she has booked the session and paid for it.
> 
> For now I am waiting. Next Tuesday I pick up my son for Christmas. He has been excited about having Christmas with us since June when we organised it, so I want to see what happens over the next fortnight. If they are in regular contact (and I have seen no evidence of this since 6th December, only some things that made me suspicious.) then a week out of the office should throw something up.
> 
> As I have said before, I could just be being suspicious about nothing, she could actually be telling the truth, or enough of the truth to be needed. She seems to show genuine remorse. This weekend she didn't touch her cell phone and as I was with her for all of it she certainly wasn't using any other cell phone.
> 
> So, for now I shall wait and see. I have already been hurt and I have already accepted the possibility that it is still happening. Finding out wont hurt any more than I already am. She knows that I don't trust her but there comes a point where I have to start trusting her otherwise reconciliation is never going to happen.
> 
> I spoke to a lawyer on Friday, so I know what I need to do if it comes to that. but I need to get Christmas out of the way first.


OK sooo... you shared your suspicions w/ her, but did you let her in on everything that you know (e-mails and texts between them, her time spent in the parking lot, etc)?

And holy sh*t man, she needs to quit her job. That should be at the very top of your list of demands for any sort of continued reconciliation. You are NEVER going to be able to move forward w/o that concession from her; without that, there is ABSOLUTELY NO POINT in attending counseling w/ her.


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## 2ntnuf

Deep has his head in the sand. He's done and he knows it, he is just letting it run it's course until she decides she has found the right man and will leave. He can't "pull the trigger". He loves his fantasy of their marriage too much.


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## Q tip

2ntnuf said:


> Deep has his head in the sand. He's done and he knows it, he is just letting it run it's course until she decides she has found the right man and will leave. He can't "pull the trigger". He loves his fantasy of their marriage too much.


Another one who needs to read, memorize, re-read MMSLP.

It needs to be required reading for all men, married or single.


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## 2ntnuf

Q tip said:


> Another one who needs to read, memorize, re-read MMSLP.
> 
> It needs to be required reading for all men, married or single.


I need it too Q tip. My education is from life. It is not adequate. I made so many mistakes...I guess that's why I understand.


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## Q tip

2ntnuf said:


> I need it too Q tip. My education is from life. It is not adequate. I made so many mistakes...I guess that's why I understand.


The book is fun. First thing it says is head for the gym and get buf. Doh!!!!!

Every guy benefits from dumping fat and building muscle. Done right, 10 pounds of fat a month can be lost. Go 3 times a week. If that does not work fast enough, go 4 times a week.

Free weights work far better that machines. 

Folks say they don't have time. Not true. When you do go, everything else magically finds time anyway.

Once you get in shape, you seem to be a few inches taller. Other ladies notice you. Your W/GF realizes they look too. Makes them want you more as you get noticed by other ladies. 

The book's great at explaining guys and the true dynamics going on with women. Does not matter how feminazi the lady is, they are all programmed to respond to men. It brings out the proper balance of alpha/beta. Guys have been betaized by the slow churn of culture these passed 50 years. It's wrong. 

As they say, RTFM.


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## ToothFairy

Doing nothing suspicious? She changed all her passwords so you cannot get into her stuff??!!


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## G.J.

How did xmas go ?

Anything develop over the period as I have my fingers crossed you had a good time


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