# She's not a cheater...just won't be transparent?



## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

August 2014, my wife told me this recent ex-coworker had called her and asked her out to a "late lunch" around 2pm so they could have drinks after eating (off the clock at 3pm). I asked her, "Alone?" and she said yes. I told her I was uncomfortable with her going drinking with another guy alone; it seemed like a date. She told me she would cancel. A few days later, she sat down and told me SHE cancelled it like she said she would. Later I found out HE canceled it due to a family emergency. Why lie?

After this, and other red flags in retrospect, I went into full investigation mode (VARs, looking for deleted texts, etc)....and nothing turned up.

A month later, I found on her calendar she was going out to lunch with him alone. I waited to see if she'd tell me after. Nope. She actually told me she went to lunch with a GROUP of coworkers. Another lie. So a few days later, she went out with me and got smashing drunk, I told her the next morning she talked about the lunch (a small ruse. she hadn't, but I didn't want to reveal my source for future use). She apologized and agreed to 100% transparency.

She invited him to a xmas get together with current coworkers, told me, and invited me. I went, and it was uneventful.

Then he seems to be texting her every two months, asking for lunch, checking in, etc. 

This May, she met him for lunch...again not mentioning it to me before or after. A lie by omission. I decided to monitor the situation as not to drive anything underground. Then nothing again until October. She told me he contacted her for lunch, and was that ok? I was glad she was transparent, and she went.

This December, she has a xmas outing planned, I told her couldn't make it. Well, she calls this guy the next day. She never mentioned it to me. So, I decided to show up as a surprise (not sure what I expected to see), and he was there, with about a half dozen others. I didn't really bring it up until a week later, and she said she didn't think it was a problem because they weren't alone. I get the feeling I never would have heard he was there.

Now here's the thing....I can check her work calendar, so I've caught these lunches on a VAR. And they are 'clean' . There's no flirting, no negative talk about spouses, just a lot of talk about work, life, and stuff the kids are doing. A bit too much talk from him about how much he misses her soooo mmucchhh (she returns the thought), how she is such a friend, and a lot of over the top ego stroking about how great she is, but only in a professional work sense. 

is he keeping her as a back burner option? is she naive when she says he's just a friend (or am I?), is this a long term player technique? I'm thinking he really is 'just a friend' because frequency of communication is so low,or a networking brown-noser. but the lies are disturbing

thoughts? next steps?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Your wife should not be doing anything that makes you uncomfortable. 

She is lying, and is at the very least minimizing her relationship with this coworker. 

mcquestion, if your gut tells you that something is amiss, then it probably is. Always trust your gut. It will rarely lead you wrong. 

I think she is having an inappropriate relationship with this man, that could be slowly sliding into an emotional affair.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh, boy. Been there.

What I would do:

"Wife, I know you feel like you need to hide your relationship with this guy from me because I'm not cool with it. And I'm not cool with it, but I'm even more not cool with you not being honest with me about it. I'm going to ask you to be honest with me about it, and honest with me about why you're not willing to give up your relationship with him. In return, I will commit to be willing to hear you out, even if I don't like or agree with what you're saying."

And then I would stop talking and hear her out, and once she's done I would nod and leave the room.

And then I would go absolutely dark about the issue and maintain vigilance. I'd ditch the VARs and all that because that level of intrusion and paranoia is probably too far.

But the next time I caught her lying about seeing him or inviting him... it would probably be a difficult conversation. For her.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

McQuestion,

What do you know about this OM, has he cheated with other co-workers, is he divorced, if he is married or has a girlfriend do they know about this communication and contact. OM, especially serial cheaters, often have a system that they work and are always on the lookout for prospects or weaknesses.

There is a possibility your W had a one time physical encounter with this guy, after drinking perhaps, could have been kissing, but it would still be enough to plant a seed of desire.

Did your sex life with your W dwindle to nothing at some time in the past perhaps for a month or two, with not explanation given?

Tamat


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## stevehowefan (Apr 3, 2013)

I would often times text a female "friend" of mine. I use quotation marks because she really wasn't a friend. She was someone in whom I allowed into my life because she was attractive and showed me attention. Although I never had sex or even liked her (or anyone) on an emotional level, what I did was wrong. The conversations were rather innocuousness, by and large .She would come to my office, when I was there by myself, and talk. The crazy thing is, I knew what the score was. I knew why she was doing it, and looking back on it at this moment, it's ever so apparent. She would inch ever so closely to me when I was talking. Yet, I didn't see the whole of the danger. I would often talk about my wife and how I wouldn't cheat on her and all of that. Looking back on it now, the danger was 10/10. While it was happening, I was so absorbed with the attention that I knew there was danger but unsure on how much. Paradoxically, I suppose, one could say I was talking about not cheating, all the while affecting my marriage adversely. I could've easily made a move, even the slightest, and went to a place from which I could never return. I was strong-willed enough to not go through with it, despite my emotionless marriage. A lot of people I know were not able. I had many encounters JUST LIKE THAT. I knew what I was doing, yet unaware of the mortal danger until years later. If things aren't good at home, they may be bleeding into things like what's happening to you right now. Looking for attention, enjoying that attention. The lies to cover it all up. 

TL;DR. It's a player technique. I've been there. Your wife may be willing to run around but unsure what the guy wants. I know I am glad that my situation described above didn't make an overt move. Don't wait to nip this in the bud. DO. IT. NOW.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. This usually has a very slippery slope to something really bad happening. Depending how you look at it, it's already an EA. I would continue the hard core monitoring because you can't at this point know what she is doing. I would make it clear that this is not acceptable and if it does occur anyway, you'll have a decision to make.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

So you don't have a relationship of Trust. Your relationship is on a very shifty foundation. What will you do about it?

BTW the OM looks like a master manipulator. That could be your insecurity painting the picture, or he may have an agenda. Wife has poor boundaries.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> I told her I was uncomfortable with her going drinking with another guy alone; it seemed like a date. She told me she would cancel.





mcquestion said:


> A month later, I found on her calendar she was going out to lunch with him alone. I waited to see if she'd tell me after. Nope. She actually told me she went to lunch with a GROUP of coworkers. Another lie. So a few days later, she went out with me and got smashing drunk, I told her the next morning she talked about the lunch (a small ruse. she hadn't, but I didn't want to reveal my source for future use). She apologized and agreed to 100% transparency.





mcquestion said:


> This May, she met him for lunch...again not mentioning it to me before or after. A lie by omission. I decided to monitor the situation as not to drive anything underground. Then nothing again until October. She told me he contacted her for lunch, and was that ok? I was glad she was transparent, and she went.





mcquestion said:


> This December, she has a xmas outing planned, I told her couldn't make it. Well, she calls this guy the next day. She never mentioned it to me.


 She keeps seeing him behind your back even after she has promised you "100% transparency". By definition this makes your wife's relationship with this other man ("OM") inappropriate. 

She is married so the OM cannot go after your wife directly without first being her friend. If you look at any of the many sites on how to steal another man's woman, the advice always given is to first be their friend and then use that friendship to let her vent about her man. One site titled “Taking Another Man's Woman: Part II”, says such things as “She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.” This and other such sites tell you that no one is perfect so that no matter who her man is, there will be issues that they can exploit. For example, one site said "Cause/encourage the breakup. If you followed earlier steps, she should talk to you about the mistakes”, and continues with “If it's serious, let her know that what he does isn't right and she doesn't have to put up with it. Tell her you could never do that to her". Similarly, another site said "You want to make the girl you want to steal away feel like she can do a lot better than the guy she is currently with. How do you do this? It is quite easy. You want to wait for the perfect opportunity to get your jabs in.” This other man has targeted your wife. Tell her that since she has a history of being dishonest with you about her relationship with this OM, you no longer want her to still stay in contact with him going forward.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mcquestion said:


> August 2014, my wife told me this recent ex-coworker had called her and asked her out to a "late lunch" around 2pm so they could have drinks after eating (off the clock at 3pm). I asked her, "Alone?" and she said yes. I told her I was uncomfortable with her going drinking with another guy alone; it seemed like a date. She told me she would cancel. A few days later, she sat down and told me SHE cancelled it like she said she would. Later I found out HE canceled it due to a family emergency. Why lie?
> 
> After this, and other red flags in retrospect, I went into full investigation mode (VARs, looking for deleted texts, etc)....and nothing turned up.
> 
> ...


She *is* cheating you. She is cheating you out of a good, loving trusting relationship.

If there's nothing wrong with what she does, why the lies? Actually, you know something, there *is* something wrong with it. And you know what it is, don't you. It's the lies. They are wrong.

Hang on! A thought. Is she using Mr Innocent Dupe in order to misdirect you? Sort of like a magician tricking their audience?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think he is grooming her and she is really enjoying the attention and flattery. You're raining on her parade, so she keeps hiding it.

She's jeopardizing her marriage with this stupidity. I think she needs a serious ultimatum with serious consequences. You have to be willing to follow through with those serious consequences.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

If the roles were reversed and you were caught lying over and over again how do you think she would be feeling and acting? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

The bottom line is that she is dating him at times and constantly invites him to events. What is wrong with this picture.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

If you are not comfortable with what she is doing (most would agree with you) -then you must tell her to stop. 

But...whatever consequences you promise will come to pass in the event of another transgression...you MUST be prepared to fully follow-up with. For example...if you decide that this is your hill to die on (which it sounds like it could/should be)...and tell her that any other attempt to contact or return contact of this man will end your marriage....you better sure as hell have the papers drawn up and ready. if you DO NOT follow through...she will never -ever-respect a damn thing you say. 

It's all on you at this point. How many times must you catch her lying before she is a liar? 2, 3, 1000? 

How many times does she get to go see him /against your will/ without consequences? 2, 5, 1000? 

You will either accept her behavior or you won't. It's all on you to decide.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I know a female work colleague who sometimes has lunch with a former male colleague.

The difference? She *always* tells her boyfriend about it beforehand.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> I know a female work colleague who sometimes has lunch with a former male colleague.
> 
> The difference? She *always* tells her boyfriend about it beforehand.


That's the way it should be..

My wife works within my families business...it's a very male dominated field. She sometimes takes her crew to lunch -they are all male. Difference...I always know about it. She often encourages them to invite their partners as well. 

It's about the transparency....also known as simple respect for your spouse.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I have an ex female co-worker that I texted today to go for coffee. I worked with her for 16 years. I know her husband well and we also worked at the same place. When I meet her for coffee, I always let my wife know and she lets her husband know. We take turns paying but it is never considered a "date". We just like to keep caught up. 
Yes, she is good looking and if we were both single we might even date. 
We both have boundaries and stick to them. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> McQuestion,
> 
> What do you know about this OM, has he cheated with other co-workers, is he divorced, if he is married or has a girlfriend do they know about this communication and contact. OM, especially serial cheaters, often have a system that they work and are always on the lookout for prospects or weaknesses.
> 
> ...


He is married. Divorce once before, not sure why.

At first, when my wife first met him, she starting talking about him and the country he is from, the food, etc. (reddish flag, right?). Then it was, “hey, I’d like you to meet him and his wife, he invited us over”. Cool. Then it was “Oh, he forgot he was having a few friends over that day, is that ok?” Cool, no problem. Then the next few days I get this fancy printed invitation to his kids christening at a big hall for that date. Now, I’m not a big party guy, or religious guy, but I’m not sure why she felt the need to lie to me about the event (first lie about this guy!). We got in a fight about that lie, and she wound up going, talking our kids (I was ok with that). Then she invited them over for dinner a month later, no red flags, but my radar really wasn’t up back then.

Five months later I saw him was at her company picnic. We ran into them, and he seemed very strange. Like, he wasn’t looking me in the eye? His wife was about 15ft away wrangling the kids, so we kinda just waved at each other. After a few minutes of talking, his wife walks up to me slowly, and gives me a big hug…it almost seemed like she wanted to say something, but didn’t? weird. But again, this was before the drinking date request, so at the time I didn’t think too much about it.

Oh, our sex life has always been all my initiative. That’s originally why I started lurking around the marriage boards. But it didn’t change either way around the time she met him. I’ve put an effort in for the last couple years and we seem to be at 1 or 2 times a week.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> I think he is grooming her and she is really enjoying the attention and flattery. You're raining on her parade, so she keeps hiding it.



BINGO! 

This dude is playing your W. Needs to come to a stop.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

jb02157 said:


> There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. /QUOTE]
> 
> I’m usually pretty easy going about this stuff. She works in a male dominated tech industry, so she always has had tons of male coworkers that are friends. But I don’t remember her ever going out for drinks alone with them. Lunch, sure. Group happy hours? Yep. So do I, it’s part of work. This guy is not a coworker anymore.
> 
> ...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> jb02157 said:
> 
> 
> > There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

mcquestion said:


> He is married. Divorce once before, not sure why.
> 
> At first, when my wife first met him, she starting talking about him and the country he is from, the food, etc. (reddish flag, right?). Then it was, “hey, I’d like you to meet him and his wife, he invited us over”. Cool. Then it was “Oh, he forgot he was having a few friends over that day, is that ok?” Cool, no problem. Then the next few days I get this fancy printed invitation to his kids christening at a big hall for that date. Now, I’m not a big party guy, or religious guy, but I’m not sure why she felt the need to lie to me about the event (first lie about this guy!). We got in a fight about that lie, and she wound up going, talking our kids (I was ok with that). Then she invited them over for dinner a month later, no red flags, but my radar really wasn’t up back then.
> 
> ...


Here's what I think.

Your wife likes this guy. It may a physical attraction, it may be an emotional attraction, or it may just be that she thinks he's cool in a totally non-romantic way.

It's probably pretty likely that this dude has been thinking to himself for a while "what's up with this chick?" And said as much to his wife, prompting the reaction.

I mean, it could be a gaint conspiracy to gain your wife's trust and start swinging, but I doubt it.

I think your wife has a crush on this dude.

And I think you weighing in and being too heavy about _this particular dude_ may be triggering a rebellious response in your wife. That's what happened to me.

It isn't about this dude, and this dude may not want to be sucked into this drama at all.

It's about your wife hiding **** from you. It could be because she's up to something, or because she doesn't feel safe telling you, or it could be "I'm not doing anything wrong and he should trust me" kind of rebellious thinking.

Tell her a variant of what I said above. Be open. But firm.

No ultimatums. No effort on your part to control her behaviour.

There's a vast difference between clearly communicating boundaries and controlling her behaviour.

And making it all about this dude makes him that much more attractive, and gives him all the power.

My wife also played games with words -- like a lawyer. "That didn't count because you didn't say that exact situation." Don't play that game. Be clear that your #1 expectation is transparency and honesty, and #2 that she respect your boundaries, just like you respect hers.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Yeswecan said:


> mcquestion said:
> 
> 
> > WTH does drinking or not drinking have to do with the price of eggs in China? Nothing. The fact remains your W is conducting an affair in plain sight. Although she may not believe so.
> ...


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> > drink alone with him was my boundary. Lunch with male coworkers and clients is part of her work. She's in middle management, and it's part of the company culture.
> ...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

mcquestion said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> > drink alone with him was my boundary. Lunch with male coworkers and clients is part of her work. She's in middle management, and it's part of the company culture.
> ...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@ mcquestion: Look up the term "emotional affair" (EA). EAs do not involve physical cheating, but they do involve lying to your spouse about the relationship. Lying and hiding the relationship are defining characteristics of an EA. EAs are considered cheating, and EAs often lead up to eventual physical affairs (PA).

Your wife is hiding behind the fact that you are trying to not be controlling in order to see the other man (OM), but the minute that she starting hiding the relationship from you, she forfeited the right to keep this guy in her life. Take a firm stand not against all men, but against this specific man. She must agree to full transparency with out complaint that includes all passwords, and she must agree to full no contact with this specific guy forever. Again, this is not directed at all men, just the man that she has betrayed your trust with by seeing him behind your back. Do this now. Do not wait until she is so attached to this OM that she will have a hard time dropping him.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

mcquestion said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> > drink alone with him was my boundary. Lunch with male coworkers and clients is part of her work. She's in middle management, and it's part of the company culture.
> ...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> > drink alone with him was my boundary. Lunch with male coworkers and clients is part of her work. She's in middle management, and it's part of the company culture.
> ...


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

mcquestion said:


> is he keeping her as a back burner option? is she naive when she says he's just a friend (or am I?), is this a long term player technique? I'm thinking he really is 'just a friend' because frequency of communication is so low,or a networking brown-noser. but the lies are disturbing
> 
> thoughts? next steps?


Well, according to a crappy survey, close to half of interviewed women keep a plan B available just in case the primary relationship fails. She's lying to you, not being open and meeting this guy on the side. Don't fall into the trap of putting it all on him, it still looks bad either way you spin it.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

TRy said:


> @ mcquestion: Look up the term "emotional affair" (EA). EAs do not involve physical cheating, but they do involve lying to your spouse about the relationship. Lying and hiding the relationship are defining characteristics of an EA. EAs are considered cheating, and EAs often lead up to eventual physical affairs (PA).
> 
> *Your wife is hiding behind the fact that you are trying to not be controlling in order to see the other man* (OM), but the minute that she starting hiding the relationship from you, she forfeited the right to keep this guy in her life. Take a firm stand not against all men, but against this specific man. She must agree to full transparency with out complaint that includes all passwords, and she must agree to full no contact with this specific guy forever. Again, this is not directed at all men, just the man that she has betrayed your trust with by seeing him behind your back. Do this now. Do not wait until she is so attached to this OM that she will have a hard time dropping him.


This ^^^^^

To protect what is yours -you will, at times, need to be controlling. You will need to control your boundaries. Fail to do so at your peril. 
@marduk has the best advise here. You'd be a wise man to follow it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The OM isn't a coworker anymore and they are making dates?

Seriously, even if she weren't hiding it, it would be wrong and a danger to your marriage. A married woman doesn't go out on dates alone with another man. Not like this. I think she at the very least has a crush on him.

You need to be clear, in my opinion. Stop trying not to look 'controlling' and tell her that this is disrespecting you and your marriage, which it certainly is.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> jb02157 said:
> 
> 
> > There are folks that would consider what she is doing as cheating. She's seeing him without your permission. /QUOTE]
> ...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Get her a copy of Not Just Friends. You read it first


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

You know your wife is lying to you and cheating on you. This is called Emotional Affair. I belive they didnt go physical,but they are on the way to do it.

She is seeing this man behind your back and keeping it from you. She couldnt wait to invite him to the party once you said you cant make it.

Now they are not co-workers anymore but she is still in contact with him. 

She even marked on calendar her dates with him,so she could not forget it.

Open your eyes man and do you really want to spend your life checking VARs,phone records and mails of your wife ?

You have to put a stop on this !!! No contact means no contact.

Also think about contacing OMs wife. She knows something is going on.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Let me ask you this, did you argue about boundaries or why she lied about the christening?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are here for a reason. 

Tell her to X the friend. 80% of affairs start with a friendship.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

At this point why do you want to be married to her?

You have to push her for sex. Is she bored having sex with you?

She lies to you. 

She belittles your concerns. 

What else is she doing ?


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@mcquestion : read my thread if you want. The Emotional Affair turns into actual sex sooner or later.

This *IS* how my wife was groomed. Its a trick which I have just learned about, because its not something that honest people do. He's making her feel special and desired. He understands "her feelings", making her panties wet.

A rule for relationships - You talk to your SO about your problems, NOT co-workers of the opposite sex or co-workers in general.
When there is NO or limited transparency = that is a RED FLAG.

Had I caught the problem earlier and grabbed it by the horns, I might have saved our marriage by going to couple's counseling and correcting the issues we had, that we were not aware of.

In other words, there is a crack in your marriage you don't know how quick or how big that can get.

Put a GPS tracker on her phone or other spy software now, ASAP. Costs about $60 a year. Wish I did when I got had the chance.

If you value your wife, go to counseling now, read up on books about romance and relationship. Never take your SO for granted.

As it says in the sticky here. Hearing your wife making sweet love to another man is soul-crushing. My soul has been ripped out of my chest then stomped on, set ablaze and buried under manure. 
Had I caught on earlier and acted correctly, we could have resolved our problems and ejected the OP/OG (Other person / Other Guy) as he has poisoned her mind with BS, booze and drugs.

The past *IS* the past, you can't go back and fix was was fixable once it's broken. I see now, the many times I might have been able to saved my marriage.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I've just ordered the book "not just friends".


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

OP, talk to his wife. Tell her about your concerns and your wife's lies. She will be another eyes and ears. Don't tell your wife that you have spoken to his wife. They will go underground if you give notice.

You need to nip this behavior of your wife's. This is problematic. After this man, who's next? See a psychologist for coping strategies for yourself. I don't think a marriage counselor can help you at this stage as your wife is not willing to give up the contact with the OM.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

mcquestion said:


> Yeswecan said:
> 
> 
> > drink alone with him was my boundary. Lunch with male coworkers and clients is part of her work. She's in middle management, and it's part of the company culture.
> ...


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OP, she is cheating. I don't get some men's views that as long as its not sexual, its not cheating. I can tell you, to a woman, transferring her emotional and romantic needs to a third person and lying to your H-is cheating.

I get that you made a boundary of no drinks alone with a guy.

Why don't you have a boundary of no lies? She lies, you snoop, you catch her, and she's says I'm sorry. Then it sure seems like she does it all over again.

There is nothing wrong with telling your spouse you will not tolerate a third person in your marriage. I sure wouldn't like my partner to date someone, then lie about it-which sadly it seems is happening to you. I'm sorry.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Be smart said:


> You know your wife is lying to you and cheating on you. This is called Emotional Affair. I belive they didnt go physical,but they are on the way to do it.
> 
> She is seeing this man behind your back and keeping it from you.
> 
> ...


thanks. Yes, I've read the Shirley Glass test for an EA, and only the secrecy part was flagged. As I mentioned, the conversations I've heard could have been said in front of me. No negative talk about either spouse, no non-work related compliments. No flirting.

He did use the term "lady" when texting her a few times (again, months apart), but maybe he does that with others. "Hey lady, how are you?" etc. Definitely a little 'playerish' but not crude or anything over the top.

Yeah, it's the lying that really has me thinking. She's a liar for sure, but minor stuff. She bought something for a few hundred bucks last year and told me she got it free (I had already seen the credit card bill, so a dumb lie, and I wouldn't have cared!). 

Another time I heard her on a conference call in the next room telling someone she had a work dinner the next night. She hadn't told me. The next day one of the kids forgot something, and she had to drop it off at school. She then told me she had to 'work late' to make up the time lost. Well her phone showed her at a restaurant, and the var showed it was just a female coworker, talking work. Why lie?? I wouldn't have cared a fig! she has work dinners. I serious thought she was going to meet that guy, but I found she wasn't! I confronted her when she came home (I could smell cooking oil on her! from some wok place), she lied, but admitted it later. Ugh.

She's awesome otherwise, and I can't see flushing a marriage over a few lies. But I think she's a compulsive liar or something. She lies to her parents too (Oh we can't come over, the kids are sick, etc). 

Oh, and I've never said 'no contact' with the guy. Like someone else said, I don't even know if he's doing anything wrong. He might be telling his wife everything, I don't know. I guess that's my next step.

I really appreciate the insights given here! I'm definitely still monitoring for escalation.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I read you post and I see you making excuses for unacceptable behavior. Yes she lies, but just a little. Yes she cheats, but just a little.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

She is lying to you over and over again my friend and you allow this.
Do you really want this in your marriage ?

What is her excuse for contacting him ? You know they are not working together anymore,so dont trust her when she say it is about job !!!

Your wife was happy to spend her time with him at the party and she lied to you AGAIN. 

You wife is having a nice time from you and all she have to say is sorry I lied and you move on.

You know why is she doing this over and over ? Because there is no consequences in her actions. She knows you will give her another pass.

About dinner with a girlfriend - she lied again telling you she have to work late,but she went out with her. Maybe her girlfriend knew about OM and she is suporting her. Why wold she lie AGAIN.

You better act fast my friend if you want to have your wife for yourself only. Tell her no more contact with OM. No discusion there anymore,but prepare yourself for acion when she break this deal AGAIN.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

mcquestion said:


> thanks. Yes, I've read the Shirley Glass test for an EA, and only the secrecy part was flagged. As I mentioned, the conversations I've heard could have been said in front of me. No negative talk about either spouse, no non-work related compliments. No flirting.


The primary problem right now is that she's lying to you about him.

Everything else doesn't matter until she starts to be honest with you about him. This should be your singular focus right now.



> He did use the term "lady" when texting her a few times (again, months apart), but maybe he does that with others. "Hey lady, how are you?" etc. Definitely a little 'playerish' but not crude or anything over the top.


He's not the problem right now.



> Yeah, it's the lying that really has me thinking. She's a liar for sure, but minor stuff. She bought something for a few hundred bucks last year and told me she got it free (I had already seen the credit card bill, so a dumb lie, and I wouldn't have cared!).
> 
> Another time I heard her on a conference call in the next room telling someone she had a work dinner the next night. She hadn't told me. The next day one of the kids forgot something, and she had to drop it off at school. She then told me she had to 'work late' to make up the time lost. Well her phone showed her at a restaurant, and the var showed it was just a female coworker, talking work. Why lie?? I wouldn't have cared a fig! she has work dinners. I serious thought she was going to meet that guy, but I found she wasn't! I confronted her when she came home (I could smell cooking oil on her! from some wok place), she lied, but admitted it later. Ugh.


You need to get to the bottom of this.

Does she feel judged? Not safe being honest with you?

Be honest with yourself. _Can_ she tell you the truth?

If you're not triggering deceit on her part, what about her family history? Past relationships?

Or is it rebellion? Don't discount it, man. And that one -- that one is maybe the most dangerous one of all.



> She's awesome otherwise, and I can't see flushing a marriage over a few lies. But I think she's a compulsive liar or something. She lies to her parents too (Oh we can't come over, the kids are sick, etc).


Agreed.


> Oh, and I've never said 'no contact' with the guy. Like someone else said, I don't even know if he's doing anything wrong. He might be telling his wife everything, I don't know. I guess that's my next step.
> 
> I really appreciate the insights given here! I'm definitely still monitoring for escalation.


Get rid of the VARs.

Have the 'honest with me about him' conversation.

It all starts there, man. Don't let it fester. Have it today.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Be smart said:


> She is lying to you over and over again my friend and you allow this.
> Do you really want this in your marriage ?
> 
> What is her excuse for contacting him ? You know they are not working together anymore,so dont trust her when she say it is about job !!!


No, the lying is very disturbing. She says he's just a friend (Shirley Glass would be sighing now). The xmas parties are the only time she contacted him first. Usually he contacts her. Sometime she doesn't response for days, or he's even had to send a 'hey, did you get my last message?" text

*"Your wife was happy to spend her time with him at the party and she lied to you AGAIN.You wife is having a nice time from you and all she have to say is sorry I lied and you move on.
"
*

She actually said "oh, didn't think about telling you first because it wasn't just him alone, it was a group", and "Oh, I would have told you later!". I guess I'll never know since I showed up.


*You know why is she doing this over and over ? Because there is no consequences in her actions. She knows you will give her another pass.*

agreed.


*About dinner with a girlfriend - she lied again telling you she have to work late,but she went out with her. Maybe her girlfriend knew about OM and she is suporting her. Why wold she lie AGAIN.*

This conversation I caught on the VAR. No mention of anything bad. My wife later said she hid it because she felt guilty for going out and having fun, leaving me home to take care of the kids. That makes zero sense because I do that all the time! She had a big trip the next week, but still, I never complain about her having business dinners, etc. I really don't mind a bit. Zero need to lie.

I haven't seen any contact since the xmas party.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> This May, she met him for lunch...again not mentioning it to me before or after. A lie by omission.


In SOME situations, it COULD be considered a "lie of omission". But in your case, it's just another lie.

And yes, I sad ANOTHER lie.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> He might be telling his wife everything, I don't know.


Ask her.

Even if he WAS telling her everything (although I can gather up a TON of cash if anyone wants to place a wager), I'm sure she would be VERY interested in hearing that your wife was NOT.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Why are you torturing yourself with this? She is in the wrong with the lying. There is no question in my mind about that & I believe not in yours.

Demand that she goes NC with this man and then check regularly to verify. Tell her that your demand is not negotiable.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have to get a little tougher. Trustworthy people can be trusted . She is a liar. You are trying to apply the principle of dealing with a trustworthy person to a non trustworthy person. You have to tell her no contact. You have to tell her to stop lying to you. You have to have consequences for any lie. You define right and wrong. You define truth and lies. Once you are debating about what is OK and what is an acceptable lie vs a non accepable like, you are losing the battle. You should be telling her that she needs therapy to understand why she is lying so much.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

mcquestion said:


> Yeah, it's the lying that really has me thinking. She's a liar for sure, but minor stuff.


The problem here is YOU BOTH have piss poor boundaries. She seeks validation from other men, why else do you think she entertains this clown? Because he's feeding her ego. And you do to for allowing this guy anywhere near her and not DEMANDING immediate no contact. You know he preying on your wife and you all but green light it in her eyes by allowing her to manage the situation.

She has DISRESPECTED you. It's time to assert your position as HER HUSBAND if you want to keep this guy out of her vagina.



mcquestion said:


> But I think she's a compulsive liar or something. She lies to her parents too.


She's a coward that's why she lies. Not a confrontational person so it's easier for her to deceive rather than stand up and do what's right. Bottom line, because of her cowardice she's become VERY comfortable with immoral behavior. Cheater's are cowards too, that's why they sneak around.



mcquestion said:


> She's awesome otherwise, and I can't see flushing a marriage over a few lies.


Hahahahaha.... the CWI forum is FULL of guys who thought. Exactly like you did, me included. "How could she be so stupid"; "She has to know what she would be ruining"; "We are committed solely to each other forever"....

Here's your mcanswer buddy. They WILL flush it all down the drain because they become lust ridden IDIOTS. The crotch monster can only stay wet for so long before it needs to be tamed. Don't be a chump. Assuming what you said is true, it's not too late but you need to MAN UP hard. TODAY. 

NO CONTACT FOREVER going forward and if you find out she so much as dreams about him again. Have her served DIVORCE PAPERS. Draw a line in the sand and have some boundaries. Respect yourself because if you don't then why should she?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

From what you've said about their known level of contact and after you've put her other lies in context, I'm going to offer a dissenting opinion and say that she and this former co-worker are probably casual friends and there likely isn't anything untoward going on. I'm a suspicious person by nature and I tend to err on the side of "Yeah, s/he is cheating.", but I'm just not seeing it here.

She doesn't tell you on the rare-ish occasions when she hangs out with her male friend because she knows there will be some level of conflict if she does. She lies to friends and family to avoid saying "No." or telling the truth and possibly causing offense. She lies about things like a purchase because she thinks you might disapprove. There is definitely a pattern here of what looks like people pleasing and avoiding conflict at the expense of honesty and authenticity.

The problem isn't her casual friendship, that does actually seem legit. The problem is that she wants to people please and avoid conflict, so she tells lies which has destroyed your trust in her and caused you to become reasonably suspicious. I am not usually one to jump on the counseling bandwagon, but she has a problem and she needs to get it worked out. She needs to understand that her "little white lies" to avoid conflict have caused damage to your marriage and that they need to stop. She needs to learn how to be honest and how to cope with conflict and negative feelings/emotions. 

If she doesn't get her lying habit under control, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to think about leaving. It's impossible to have a decent marriage and close bond with someone you can't trust to be honest.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

mcquestion said:


> Like someone else said, I don't even know if he's doing anything wrong. He might be telling his wife everything.


This is a red herring. He could be the most upfront and innocent guy on this planet. Everything is above board and he told your wife to tell you about the friendship. Doesn't matter if his wife knows everything or not. 

YOU DIDN'T KNOW and your wife lied to you.

That's the only issue in this scenario. When a spouse lies about meeting someone, it is okay to be angry and set some boundaries.

It's one thing when you start focusing on EVERY person she talks to male for female. You noticed a pattern and the lies irked you. So, now is the time to have a serious talk before it does go somewhere you do not like.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

You can solve this verry easy my friend.

First step you have to do is tell your wife NO CONTACT with this man and you have to mean it.

Dont let her have a free pass again in another 2-3 months. Dont trust her when she says "I wanted to tell you but I forget,or I would tell you the next day"

Also her excuse is so stupid about other people being there at the party. She wanted to show up with this man,like a couple but she lied to you AGAIN and you let her do it AGAIN.

Second thing you have to do is tell you wife NO MORE LIES. You are in marriage,best friends,sharing everything from money to bed and she is going to hide nothing from you.

Third thing- no more secret launches or dinners with other men. If she is so hungry or want to have fun,just give her your phone number and there you go.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

ok, no INTENTIONAL contact recently, but her 'friend' texted her phone, saying:

"I'll be home at 6:10"
"is that ok?"
"sorry that was meant for <his wife's name>"

my wife didn't reply at all.

This guy has done that several times before (when they used to work together). Things like "hey, do we need milk" "should I pick up the cake" etc. All mundane stuff supposedly meant for his wife.

is that some stupid pickup artist trick to get the target to think about you? fishing for conversation? some kind of signal? or is he just a dufus who can't text properly? 

he has an iphone, so think of all the steps you'd need to do to 'accidentally' text someone you hadn't texted in several weeks. And his wife's name is not at all similar to my wife's name.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

OR, its code for... Well, you know.

I knew people at a former company that used codes to disguise when they were talking about buying, or selling "weed".

"The fox is in the hen house" meant that one would be picking up something that the other had previously requested and "The eagle has landed" meant that one had picked that something up and brought it in with him that day.

You're wife may not have be savvy enough to think of this on her own, but if she was coached by someone else...

"Huston, we have a problem."...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> ok, no INTENTIONAL contact recently, but her 'friend' texted her phone, saying:
> 
> "I'll be home at 6:10"
> "is that ok?"
> ...


Between you and me, the other guy is a serious idiot. He needs to go. Including removal of your W number for those accidental texts meant for someone else who's name is not remotely close to your W name thus not really being a mistake. What kind of douchbaggery is that?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

If there is no legitimate need for him to contact her for work purposes, she should block his number in her phone. This way she won't ever see those mistaken texts.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> ok, no INTENTIONAL contact recently, but her 'friend' texted her phone, saying:
> 
> "I'll be home at 6:10"
> "is that ok?"
> ...


This is a known "fishing" technique. A a message making no sense or seemingly meant for another, hoping your wife will respond and start a texting session.

It still bothers me that once you told her you could not make it to her party, she immediately calls him to come even though he no longer works there. Plus the group going for drinks where he just happened to show up. Is he her "replacement husband"? To be called on when she thinks you are not going to be around?


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

If these "accidental" texts are bothering you, you do have the option of telling her that she can either block her casual friend and keep her husband or she can keep her casual friend and lose her husband. How she reacts should tell you a LOT.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> This is a known "fishing" technique. A a message making no sense or seemingly meant for another, hoping your wife will respond and start a texting session.


It could also be intentional on both their parts. Sending a seemingly innocuous text that she could answer if convenient or easily explain away as a mis-dial or mistake if caught.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

He is grooming her.

Affairs dont begin in the bedroom they begin with conversations, lunch, & dinner dates.

The fact that she does not tell you of her little dates with him makes her a cheater. She is actively decieving you.

Clamp down on this hard and fast. Dont be fooled at the very least there is an emotional affair going on here. This will turn Physical at some point if it hasnt already.

Read up on the 180 put your foot down and tell her this behavour is unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated if she wants to stay married.

She will most likely accuse you of being controlling and feed you the line his just a friend but do not cave in unless you want to be back here writing about their physical affair at a later date.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> She's awesome otherwise, and I can't see flushing a marriage over a few lies. But I think she's a compulsive liar or something. She lies to her parents too (Oh we can't come over, the kids are sick, etc).


Let's assume she's not cheating on you.

She's still not worthy to be married to anyone with any self-respect.

Maybe she's crazy, or maybe she's just "ethically challenged". But either way, someone like that is trouble for everyone they are involved with.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

My view, YOU are not protecting your marriage !!

Shut it down, and do it hard !!

A call to him, and a stern talk to her.

Your wishy washy exchanges has brought you here, so change it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Yes, the texting 'errors' don't pass the smell test.

Stop beating around the bush with this. Shut it down! Put your foot down. Stop the game playing. It's ridiculous. She's your wife, for God's sake. Block his number. Tell her no more crap.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How have you traditionally handled conflict? Do you get angry? Sarcastic? Quiet?


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

There is nobody as blind as someone who refuses to see.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> She's your wife, for God's sake. Block his number. Tell her no more crap.


 @mcquestion Listen to alte Dame! Get the phone and just block the number. She'll never notice, unless she is in contact with him.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> Your wife should not be doing anything that makes you uncomfortable.
> 
> She is lying, and is at the very least minimizing her relationship with this coworker.
> 
> ...





MattMatt said:


> I know a female work colleague who sometimes has lunch with a former male colleague.
> 
> The difference? She *always* tells her boyfriend about it beforehand.


*And if they aren't exactly spilling the beans to their significant other, as they should be, then that would largely make them into a willing co-conspirator!

IMHO, you are being used for her hedonistic benefit! Time to rein in the fillie and set some sobering realistic boundaries for her!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

This one is as simple as it gets. married women do not have secret friends of the opposite sex that they go out on dates with and lie to their husbands. You are more than on a slippery slope, and this has nothing to do with the OM. he just wants to get laid.

Your wife is encouraging this, lying to you, and if you do not get this stopped some way we all know where this will wind up. Women do NOT usually have a light bulb go on in ther heads that says "I think Illl go out a get a lover to cheat with". It start exactly with what is going on her the overwhelming amount of times. And it most likely has already happened.

google the major red flags and locking and protecting her social media will pop right into your face. You are being gaslighted and the only reason she is meeting this guy is because she wants to and you are putting up with it.

And I guarantee you if you ask her to take a polygtraph, you will be looking at Casper The Ghost, which will tell you a lot even if you had no intention of doing it.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

mcquestion said:


> ok, no INTENTIONAL contact recently, but her 'friend' texted her phone, saying:
> 
> "I'll be home at 6:10"
> "is that ok?"
> ...


While I shared (and still do) MJJEAN's view of things (she's a conflict avoider, thus the white lies), the above is actually rather concerning to me.

For one, if they're not in regular texting contact, then their texts in his phone would have moved steadily to the bottom of his list, making accidental texts rather difficult. I've texted the wrong person before, but that's because I had a 'fat finger' moment, and clicked the wrong recipient - right underneath/above the intended recipient. It happens. So, if it truly was an accident, then that could mean that they're in more contact than she's letting on, or that you're aware of. You can access her phone and perhaps she's deleting texts. You can't access his phone.

For two (if the above isn't it), then yes, it's probably an "accidentally on purpose" thing, to get her attention and perhaps turn it into a few texts back and forth, and another meeting. However, this doesn't seem too likely, as I get the impression that neither of them would feel like they have to resort to that type of thing in the first place. He can just text her and say hello.

Honestly, this is where my mind went with this - if he does this several times, on purpose, then it sets the table for him to "accidentally" text her with something inappropriate later on. Maybe a picture, maybe a text with some graphic details, etc. This way, it's easily explainable to her (if she is not receptive to it) or to you or his wife, if discovered.

I had a whole post about a year ago about some douche bag who "accidentally" sent my wife a picture of his very hard penis, then followed it up with "OMG, that was meant for my wife, I'm SO sorry, please delete that!!!"

The first guy on earth who tried that probably thought he was a genius. We're now at the point of daily technology use where these types of "mistakes" are almost assuredly on purpose. And yes, as I said, I've accidentally texted the wrong person before (so I guess it does and can happen...) but IF I was planning on sending a picture of my junk to my wife, I think I would honestly triple check the recipient before I hit "send". Hell, I do so even when a text is potentially embarrassing, not even graphic.

But as I said, if it WAS accidental, then that indicates that your wife's number/previous texts are at the top of his list. Unless he literally only texts his wife and yours, then if they've been out of touch (as you seem to think they have), then her previous texts or contact info wouldn't easily be accidentally texted. They'd be buried in his text log by date.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

On the subject of the original topic (texting aside), I agree that this is dangerous to OP's marriage.

I don't get the impression that anything is currently going on (OP's VAR would indicate this), but the potential for something to happen at some point is strong.

Is it even an EA in the true sense of the word? I'm not so sure. Again, the VAR would have indicated SOMETHING, yet their lunch dates consist solely of work-related talk and work-related ego stroking. And the amount of time in between meetings doesn't seem to indicate any sort of urgency or need.

It was suggested that this is underground, but again, their occasional lunch meetings, which have been VAR'd, would contain something, and yet they haven't.

I think it's an EA of sorts, but not necessarily marriage threatening - currently. She obviously enjoys this man's company every now and again, but they talk about work. She's getting SOMETHING out of seeing him that she's not getting at home, or anywhere else, but it doesn't appear inappropriate. TBH, it's why we married folks have friends and hobbies - we get something out of them that we don't get from our spouses.

I fully agree with @MJJEAN, in that she's clearly a conflict-avoider, for better or worse. My wife is too, big time. I set my boundaries with her about just that, but it took some time for her to "get it", and understand that I'm not trying to control her.

For people like OP's wife and mine, little white lies about things they feel are inconsequential are totally acceptable. OP's wife honestly doesn't feel like she's doing anything wrong, as she's LIKELY not interested in this man for anything outside of friendship and/or work talk.

So in her mind, OP is jealous and controlling, simply because her friend is a man. She doesn't look at it as a boundary issue. This is exactly how my wife took these types of things when I talked about my boundaries. And for her part, I don't believe my wife ever looked at situations like this one as any sort of threat to our marriage, or that they were things she "could handle", etc. In other words, she had zero intentions of doing anything nefarious, therefore it was simply me not trusting her, or being jealous and controlling.

It took a lot of time for me to have her see things my way. Turn the tables and ask her how she'd feel. On numerous occasions, I pointed out when and where this person, or that, made a comment, or spoke to her in a way that was "not just friendly". IMO, sometimes people let their need to be independent get in the way of seeing things for what they really are (or can be). There's no doubt one or more guys were gunning for my wife, but she literally didn't see it that way.

Furthermore, it took a while for me to convince her that even the most innocuous of people could be simply biding their time and waiting for an opportunity with her. Or even just hoping she made the first move. Not all players and d-bags jump right to the chase.

Yes, on the surface it seems quite paranoid, but it is for a reason. Men and women (married or not) can certainly be friends, there's no doubt about it, but hiding it from ones spouse just makes things worse. Hell, people have affairs with others who their spouses know and spend time with, or otherwise don't hide from them.

So does being up front and transparent actually prevent infidelity? Of course not.

But being up front and transparent is EXPECTED nevertheless. It just raises red flags if even the most innocent and innocuous platonic friendship is hidden.

And this is what I had to get through to my wife, most of all. Tell me about it (whatever "it" is), because if you don't, I'll naturally be suspicious - which is exactly what she (and OP's wife) does NOT want, whether there's something going on or it's not. If you're hiding something, no matter HOW innocent, how on earth do you think I'm going to receive that?

Duh.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

*The problem isn't her casual friendship, that does actually seem legit. The problem is that she wants to people please and avoid conflict, so she tells lies which has destroyed your trust in her and caused you to become reasonably suspicious. I am not usually one to jump on the counseling bandwagon, but she has a problem and she needs to get it worked out. She needs to understand that her "little white lies" to avoid conflict have caused damage to your marriage and that they need to stop. She needs to learn how to be honest and how to cope with conflict and negative feelings/emotions. 

If she doesn't get her lying habit under control, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to think about leaving. It's impossible to have a decent marriage and close bond with someone you can't trust to be honest.[/QUOTE]
*

Please please please heed this! Mcjean is spot on here! My ex told little lies for the same reason...a people pleaser and avoiding conflict. It made me question her character and ask, "What else is she capable of?" Turns out she lied a hellof a lot, about guys and friends and her kids and many many things...I can't stress how crucial and important her lying is...to your relationship and future...


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

You may have not found any smoking gun yet, but it's certainly locked and loaded.

And target practice is just around the corner...


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> google the major red flags and locking and protecting her social media will pop right into your face. You are being gaslighted and the only reason she is meeting this guy is because she wants to and you are putting up with it.


no she’s definitely NOT locking her phone, doesn’t hide it or keep it in her pocket all the time, and doesn’t really do much social media. She knows I have the pass code (I set up her phone), but I certainly don’t make it known that I’m checking it occasionally or that I can undelete texts. I’ve been careful not to reveal my sources, in case something really is going on.




alexm said:


> Honestly, this is where my mind went with this - if he does this several times, on purpose, then it sets the table for him to "accidentally" text her with something inappropriate later on. Maybe a picture, maybe a text with some graphic details, etc. This way, it's easily explainable to her (if she is not receptive to it) or to you or his wife, if discovered.


This is very interesting…I will keep an eye out for this. I could totally see this. He could shoot her a “hey sexy, can you meet me?” and if she freaks out, he’d just apologize and call it a mistake, but if she responds positively, game on.



alexm said:


> I think it's an EA of sorts, but not necessarily marriage threatening - currently. She obviously enjoys this man's company every now and again, but they talk about work. She's getting SOMETHING out of seeing him that she's not getting at home, or anywhere else, but it doesn't appear inappropriate.


Wow alexm, this whole post was amazing! Thank you so much. This is exactly how I feel. My wife is a talker, so is he. They enjoy each other’s company, no doubt. She’s well connected at work; a good word from my wife would mean an instant job offer. She swears he’s never done anything inappropriate; I’ve never heard anything “sexual” between them. She certainly didn’t think she’s did anything wrong by accepting a drinking lunch with him (I did), or just meeting him for a lunch. There aren’t 100 text messages a day; the meetings are months apart.

BUT...he's still a red-blooded male, so my radar is still on full alert.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

mcquestion said:


> no she’s definitely NOT locking her phone, doesn’t hide it or keep it in her pocket all the time
> 
> There aren’t 100 text messages a day; the meetings are months apart.


Okay call me the suspicious type, but since she knows her phone may be monitored; perhaps she's smart enough to realize that any illicit contact has to be at work.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

Here's a thought.

You "accidentally'" text the OM's wife something like the following.
_
"Yes, (your wife's name) is in contact with (OM's name) far too much for my liking. I think that it's only a matter of time before this relationship crosses the line." Then a minute later text her "Sorry, I sent this to you by "accident."._

Then just wait...

If your wife brings up the text, you tell her "Hey, I accidentally sent the text to the wrong person. You KNOW how it is, right?.".

Then, every time that the OM "accidentally" texts your wife, again, you "accidentally" text his wife, again. Always with something like you're confiding in a BMF. "He's accidentally texted my wife again.". And so on.

Many may think this to be vindictive and petty, I say that it get's the OM's wife on board and it shows his own wife how all the "accidental" texts look from standing on the outside, looking in.

If the OM has to listen to his own wife about it, every time he "accidentally" texts his wife... Well, it's no longer a fun little game. It now comes with a price.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Here's a thought.
> 
> You "accidentally'" text the OM's wife something like the following.
> _
> ...


I would just forward the text to his wife.

Clay


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Look my friend,it does not matter that you have paswords to her phone. 

Your wife meets with this man BEHIND your back. 

You are only lying to yourself if you think there is nothong going on.

If you want to save this marriage tell your wife to block this guy not only from phone,but your lives.
Also no more lies.

If you dont do that,then your marriage is going to suffer,maybe not with this guy. She will find another "TALKER" like you said.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

badmemory said:


> Okay call me the suspicious type, but since she knows her phone may be monitored; perhaps she's smart enough to realize that any illicit contact has to be at work.


Apparently I’m the suspicious type too. Yes, work is definitely a blind spot, but from the conversations I’ve heard, it doesn’t sound like the contact is that frequent. He acts like it’s been ages since they’ve talked/seen each other. Anything is possible, and I’d welcome any other advice on what to check. There hasn’t been any contact since the ‘accidental’ text, but his pattern is more bi-monthly contact.



Be smart said:


> Look my friend,it does not matter that you have paswords to her phone.
> 
> Your wife meets with this man BEHIND your back.
> 
> ...


I have no evidence of anything non-platonic going on. And the meetings behind my back were indicated on her phone, I just didn’t tip my hand and reveal that I knew about it. I’m hesitant to reveal my info sources if something bad is going on. 

And, yes, I’ve told her ‘no more lies’, but I don’t think that’s too effective with compulsive liars. I’m stuck in monitoring mode.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

mcquestion said:


> Apparently I’m the suspicious type too. Yes, *work is definitely a blind spot*, but from the conversations I’ve heard, it *doesn’t sound like the contact is that frequent*. *He acts like it’s been ages since they’ve talked/seen each other. * Anythi*ng is possible, and I’d welcome any other advice on what to check. There hasn’t been any contact since the ‘accidental’ text*, but his pattern is more bi-monthly contact.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You said it yourself in the above, "he's acting"...

You don't SEE any contact, but they work together, right...

You've told her "no more lies". Is this the first time that you've told her this? I doubt it is. You tell her no more lies, then you explain what will happen if(when) you catch her lying again.

Otherwise the "no more lies" statement is a toothless lion.

No, you don't have any proof that this has gone PA. As far as I can tell, you also don't have any proof that it hasn't gone PA.

Don't forget, the term PA is not defined by having sex. Hand holding, hugs and kisses are also physical and they tend to lead to sex.

Many of us are so harsh in our tones and posts because we see a guy that's trying to close the barn door before the horse gets lose, but he's not able to close the doors because the horse is already half the way out of the barn.

You need to grab the "reins" and lead this mare back in. Otherwise, one day, not far off either, you'll look out the window and see her in someone else's "greener pasture"...

Btw, NEVER reveal your source(s) of information. Not even if things seem to be getting better.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> You said it yourself in the above, "he's acting"...
> 
> You don't SEE any contact, but they work together, right...


no, not anymore. Not since mid 2014. Excellent other points, thank you for your input.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

When you tell your wife No More Lies and this guy have to go from your lives you have to mean it my friend.

She broke this promise to you over and over again,and you always did the same thing.
She is doing it because she can,there is no consequences for her actions. Also this tells me she lost some respect for you. If she really cares about you like you told us she would stop doing this behind your back.

Your marriage have really poor boundaries and I know people are going to hate me,but you my friend allowed half of this.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> ok, no INTENTIONAL contact recently, but her 'friend' texted her phone, saying:
> 
> "I'll be home at 6:10"
> "is that ok?"
> ...


The only time that has happened to me is when the last person I texted was a co-workers and I started texting thinking it was my wife and luckily I realized I had the wrong person pulled up. It was a for wife's eyes only text and would have been embracing had I sent it to the typist.

If you had looked at his text logs, I bet the person he was texting before the texts in question was your wife. The incoming texts on her phone were most likely deleted.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> If you had looked at his text logs, I bet the person he was texting before the texts in question was your wife. The incoming texts on her phone were most likely deleted.



I've actually ran undelete programs (dr. fone, fonelab), and I don't see any deleted texts. 

her 'friend' texted her last week, asking if she had time to talk. She called him for a short call. Then he texted a few days ago, trying to set up a lunch(?) with her and another friend for next week. I'll see if I get told about that one, or some other lie.


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## Keepin-my-head-up (Jan 11, 2013)

And what are you going to do if she lies to you or doesn't tell you?

She called and texted a few days ago?
What are you waiting for?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

mcquestion said:


> I've actually ran undelete programs (dr. fone, fonelab), and I don't see any deleted texts.
> 
> her 'friend' texted her last week, asking if she had time to talk. She called him for a short call. Then he texted a few days ago, trying to set up a lunch(?) with her and another friend for next week. I'll see if I get told about that one, or some other lie.


Were you told about the text and short call from last week?

How long between the text and her making the call?

Was this during her working hours?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Keepin-my-head-up said:


> And what are you going to do if she lies to you or doesn't tell you?
> 
> She called and texted a few days ago?
> What are you waiting for?


I haven't said "no contact". I've set my boundaries at in-person meetings (no drinking, no undisclosed meetings). 

last week, the text was basically "hey do you have time to talk" and she called him, during work hours (end of the day). I was NOT told about it. 

but again, if I freak out about every text or call I see, she'll figure out I'm checking up on her phone and I'll never find out if it's more than 'just friends'

If she does meet up with him again secretly, I'll be meeting with his wife to discuss what's going on. I need to get her cell number somehow. Maybe I'll ask my wife to get it. That might shake up things a little if she thinks I'd contact his wife directly next time I find something.

maybe I'll call him...say, "what's your wife's number? you keep asking my wife out, maybe I'll ask yours out!" ha


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Just ask her for his number and his wife's number. That'll remind her that she is NOT to be engaging in this sh&t.


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## Clay2013 (Oct 30, 2013)

See I think your just wasting your time. You can do all the detective work you want but in the end if she wants to hide it she will do this in ways you will never know. I personally would take a different approach. I would just sit her down and tell her you have reached a point to where if she has any kind of contact with this many anymore you will file and move on with your life. You can do this calmly and show you have enough respect for yourself. Its kind of like putting her on notice and changes the dynamic of this. People that feel they can get away with it love this kind of game. Not only do they get the reward of cheating they get the high of doing things and feeling they are smarter than you. This way your just shutting down the game and putting her on notice. 

I have actually had this very same talk with my wife when we first met and once when her new boss wanted her to start staying late to work with him. She decided our relationship was more important and as it turns out that same boss did cheat with one of the other co workers and it cost her, her marriage. My wife now sees him for a loser he is and she wont even be around him. 

Good luck.

C


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

turnera said:


> Just ask her for his number and his wife's number. That'll remind her that she is NOT to be engaging in this sh&t.



It'll just send it underground.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

"So what's your schedule looking like for next week"

"Don't forget, I/you got an appointment next week at noon"

"Hey, me and friend(not OM) have a lunch date for next week"

"Hey, I got work meetings all next week, so I might not be readily available if you need to talk to me"

Just some lines you might get this weekend.......or sooner!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

How long are you going to wait my friend? 
She is doing THE SAME THING behind your back once AGAIN !

She will not tell you and she will go to lunch with him,then you will bring this and your wife is going to tell you they are just friends and you should stop invading her privacy.

See you in 5-6 days.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

So I know she didn’t meet up with her ‘friend’ last week; she was home sick. This Friday, she called him while driving home with my son. She didn’t mention that night.

She didn’t mention anything about it on Saturday either, and by Sunday I was getting ready to call her on it. I must have been scowling or being standoffish, because she asked me twice if something was wrong. 

She had to catch a flight that afternoon, and I was figuring to ask her why she was hiding it from me before she left. As she was getting ready, she said, “Oh, did I forget to tell you…” and told me about them talking, and that it was about him applying for a job at her company, and her discussing the merits/issues with that position. 

So I’m glad she was transparent (eventually), maybe she’s getting that it’s the secrecy and sneakiness that riles me up. But I’m not thrilled with the possibility of him coming back him coming back to her company either.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> She had to catch a flight that afternoon, and I was figuring to ask her why she was hiding it from me before she left. As she was getting ready, she said, “Oh, did I forget to tell you…” and told me about them talking, and that it was about him applying for a job at her company, and her discussing the merits/issues with that position.
> 
> So I’m glad she was transparent (eventually), maybe she’s getting that it’s the secrecy and sneakiness that riles me up.


 She was not transparent at all about this. She promised to be transparent with you and let you know about all contact with this other man, and once again did not do that. How is her telling you “Oh, did I forget to tell you…”, and only talking about it once you brought it up being transparent?


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

mcquestion said:


> So I know she didn’t meet up with her ‘friend’ last week; she was home sick. This Friday, she called him while driving home with my son. She didn’t mention that night.
> 
> She didn’t mention anything about it on Saturday either, and by Sunday I was getting ready to call her on it. I must have been scowling or being standoffish, because she asked me twice if something was wrong.
> 
> ...


yea, not good.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Hehehe..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

TRy said:


> . How is her telling you “Oh, did I forget to tell you…”, and only talking about it once you brought it up being transparent?


No, I didn't bring it up. Sorry if my explanation was muddled.

I was going to, but she did, just in the nick of time, before she left.

So her 'transparency' has a two day delay! maybe she keyed in on my grouchiness (I really wasn't trying to be), or something, but I didn't mention it. I tried to react normally (or calmly).


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

The bad part of this is that SHE called him. She did not return a call from him. She initiated contact. Then she says "Oh did I forget to tell you I talked to him on Friday." She still left out the part that she called him. She feels the need to contact him. EA for sure.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend you are going to get hurt trust me on this one.

She is chasing him,looking for all signs to have Affair and now it will be so easy for her because they will work together.

Belive me they didnt talk about weather on that Friday night. They talked about opportunities to see each other and maybe she will even write a letter to her boss to accept his job bid.


I am out of here and I wish you the best my friend. It really hurts me when I see what people allow to their husbands/wives and then they blame themslefs for problems.

Take care


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

My friend, if he gets on board at her work, then you are truly going to be in hell. Right now, since they dont work together, outside of any secret email accounts and snapchat or other instant messaging apps you can somewhat deduce what she is doing. Once they work for the same company, you are in the dark once she 'goes in that building'. They can talk and plan at any time on company phones, instant messengers, and email. She will be able to bump into him at any time, attend meetings with him, and end up at the same conferences and travel destinations. They can start and/or carry on an affair that is IMHO the toughest kind to gain information about and stamp out. At that point you are not going to be able to end her contact with him without appearing to be an overbearing a$$hole. I do not know what to tell you other than it may end with her having to quit HER job or you filing for D. 

You say they 'did' work together several years ago? Then that's when the problem most likely began. 

Do not lightly discount that the affair partners can read up on these forums just as easily as you and I- and implement plans of their own of ways to defeat your possible tech and not get caught. A rulebook for the affair- for lack of better words. 

I'm not saying that you have a full blown affair on your hands- but all the markers are heading in that direction if this situation is not reined in. I would absolutely be putting on my pointy Sherlock Holmes hat and keeping my eyes wide open.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

And I second the notion that it would be difficult to accidentally text your wife- unless her name was up at the top of the text string on his phone. Something like that could be code for "we need to speak now". Look real hard for a separate burner phone.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

You really need to wake up and smell the coffee my friend. I have rarely seen anyone in such denial. 

Your WW has no respect for you and is a liar.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Be smart said:


> Belive me they didnt talk about weather on that Friday night. They talked about opportunities to see each other and maybe she will even write a letter to her boss to accept his job bid.



no, actually they just talked about the job....I have the whole conversation on VAR. 

Oh yes, she'll definitely recommend him.


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> You really need to wake up and smell the coffee my friend. I have rarely seen anyone in such denial.
> 
> Your WW has no respect for you and is a liar.


what am I denying? I'm the one that is telling everyone on here that she's a liar!

but this time, she didn't lie...she wasn't too speedy with the truth, but she still told me.

also, never heard a burner phone on the VAR.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

mcquestion said:


> no, actually they just talked about the job....I have the whole conversation on VAR.
> 
> Oh yes, she'll definitely recommend him.


So you writing this looks to me like you think this is a good thing. Sorry maybe I am wrong,but I got that reading your answer.

If you are OK with your wife texting another man,then sometimes going out and have a nice dinner,then I wish you luck my friend.

Now she is going to help him with the job,so they can spend even more time with each other and she will not have to deal with "guilt" and explaining herself to you. She will now have a good story,because they will be co-workers so they HAVE to see each other.

Sorry,but this is dating and keeping things from your husband/wife,but maybe I am dumb becasue I would never allow this to my wife. Damn this "modern" marriages


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Why don't you tell her to stop?

She has definitely behaved inappropriately and continues to do so despite it bothering you, which it should.

Why complain here if you aren't going to give her repercussions for her bad behavior?

If her behavior is acceptable to you, why post here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

Do you not think if she had a suspicion you may var her (since you have questioned her several times) that she can't figure out the areas you MAY hide one at, and act normal in those areas? Yes, that's mind****ery, but believe me it happens. I'm just telling you not to discount the possibility. You need to be working 'outside the box' in your sleuthing. If your wife is in a position to affect hiring of people, then she is not a peon, and is probably pretty intelligent. Just consider every angle.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Oh my GOD!

She MUST be fully transparent and she MUST remove this guy from her life permanently as a condition for this marriage to continue. Otherwise, you divorce her. That's what I would do. Because right now, your marriage is a sham. Good luck.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Mc, this has been going on for two years. It is destroying your marriage. You might not see it, but it is bearing away out it. 

What type of affection do you show her?
What type of affection does she show you? 
Why do you always have to push for sex ? 
She didn't forget to tell you about the phone call, she timed it so you couldn't respond. 

How long have you been married? You have one son, any more and ages? 
Your apx ages. 

At this point drop it and look for a MC. When you find one tell her the marriage is not working for you on a couple of reasons and you want to use MC to resolve them. If she says no, tell her that it is a must, with out her. Tell her you will make an appointment and let her know the time. Close by saying you hope she I'd there - no more. 

Begin the 180. Do not be cold, do not initiate either affection or sex. You want to strike a great roommate type atmosphere.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Liove shack 180*


There continue to be more and more arrivals to our LS section on Divorce and Separation. Often, I find myself technically challenged when it comes to citing links, or just general recall sometimes. As well, I many times repeat my reading advice to posters. As a contributor to this section, I thought it might be useful to us and our newcomers to get all of our reading materials in one place, rather than citing and re-citing.

Perhaps others will join me in posting helpful relevant material and cites -- on this new thread I am trying to begin. Can some please post the most current "No Contact" draft that is available so it will come up in the second post of the thread?*

Theefore, please of our find our most popular reference below:*

THE 180's:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)*

So here's the list:*
Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."


Mc use this to pick and chose


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> No, I didn't bring it up. Sorry if my explanation was muddled.
> 
> I was going to, but she did, just in the nick of time, before she left.
> 
> So her 'transparency' has a two day delay! maybe she keyed in on my grouchiness (I really wasn't trying to be), or something, but I didn't mention it. I tried to react normally (or calmly).


You're getting played by her. Idk if it is a power game with her or if she is getting her jollies by talking to him (EA), or both.

The only reason she said anything is she thought you might know about the call due to your moodiness. I bet if you'd been cheerful all weekend she wouldn't have suspected and she wouldn't have said anything.

So this isn't transparency at all. Not one bit. It is a game where she believes she can get away with a certain amount, and she is pushing it out to the limit as far as she can.

If it wasn't a big deal to her that they'd talked, she would have forgotten about it. Instead she held onto it for 2 days and then at the last possible moment let it out. She was mulling it over the whole time whether she had to tell you or not.

Which means she still believes it is ok to hide it from you if she can get away with it.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I think you need to be up front with her and let her know that if he joins her company you would like her to leave it. I assume that is what you would like because you know deep down, you don't trust her when it comes to him. Time to have this conversation.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

mcquestion said:


> what am I denying? I'm the one that is telling everyone on here that she's a liar!
> 
> but this time, she didn't lie...she wasn't too speedy with the truth, but she still told me.
> 
> also, never heard a burner phone on the VAR.





> She didn’t mention anything about it on Saturday either, and by Sunday I was getting ready to call her on it. I must have been scowling or being standoffish, because she asked me twice if something was wrong.
> 
> She had to catch a flight that afternoon, and I was figuring to ask her why she was hiding it from me before she left. As she was getting ready, she said, “Oh, did I forget to tell you…” and told me about them talking, and that it was about him applying for a job at her company, and her discussing the merits/issues with that position.


She told you if I understand correctly because of your attitude before she was due to leave......women aren't stupid


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

She has lied about meetings....that is no red flag....its a great big arrow with secret written on it


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

McQuestion,

The missing perspective here is that of the OM, as a man I couldn't imagine going to lunch with a female, alone drinking alcohol at 2 in the afternoon and repeatedly without some attraction. While your W's perspective may have been pure from the start I doubt that the OMs has been. 

I've been to one time lunches with female salespersons, but they are never a regular thing as I understood the buzz I can get from that contact. Often the salespeople would come in pairs, and more often than not the female salespersons will say something like I have to text my H, and then type on their phones on the table.

I think you need to know more about this OMs past, you said he was divorced but were not sure why, does your W know why, and does the why include some story calculated to make the OM look like a victim?

I would stop by OMs house and have a chat with his W or current SO, bring a lunch with you.

Tamat


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## funengineer (Jan 20, 2016)

@mcquestion

I used to be single, and I used to date a lot and I have seen a lot. if this guy get hired at her company consider your marriage a bye bye. transparent or not. any guy with a good looking female friend will find the opportunity you know what. 

mcquestion
how about this, If you walk to her and say either me or this guy ( means no call, no text, or any kind of contact) what would her reaction be?


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm gonna tell you my thoughts- after going through something similar to your story. I too questioned my wife on several occassions, and let her know I was uncomfortable with the coworker. Of course she assured me nothing was going on, just a coworker, blah blah blah. You know what that did? It drove anything to do with them underground. She no longer mentioned him, and I suppose I stuck my head back in the sand. Well, turns out she had her affair- at work, and on work trips to conferences. I caught her after she had been in it 8 months and she got careless and I saw some texts. To this day, I bet if I had payed that coworker 'a serious visit' as soon as I saw the first sign of any bull**** we may could have avoided the whole thing. I strongly suspect we never hear of cases where the OM is threatened or confronted before the affair gets fully underway 
because it probably stops it if that is done correctly. 

My point being, is you need to do SOMETHING to secure your marriage. Your wife does not appear to be giving a damn. If you leave it up to her, the marriage is done. I'm sorry you have been thrust into this situation, but you are going to have to bring down the hammer of Thor on her, or lose your marriage. If you are the type that could keep your cool and go put the fear of God into the OM, I'd consider it. Lots of people will tell you not to, the jury is still out on that. In certain circumstances, it could make all the difference. But, at the end of the day dont forget that your WIFE is the main problem here, not the OM.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Thor said:


> You're getting played by her. Idk if it is a power game with her or if she is getting her jollies by talking to him (EA), or both.
> 
> The only reason she said anything is she thought you might know about the call due to your moodiness. I bet if you'd been cheerful all weekend she wouldn't have suspected and she wouldn't have said anything.
> 
> ...


I agree Thor. You hit the nail on the head.

McQuestion still won't do anything about it though


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I strongly belileve you need to tell your wife that the marriage is not working and you feel yourself detaching and demand MC. Inform her you will attend with or with out her and if she chooses to not attend you will view it as problematic. But first find an interview a MC. 

Look you been going around a for two years on this matter. It needs to end. Focus finding something to break the ice. We only now what you write, so yes you could be controlling and unreasonable. If this is the case you are driving her away - that is on you and you are creating a WAW. So post a request on how to find a good MC who can be mentor, mediator, umpire, and ref. 

I believe @ConanHub is in the field as several others on this board. To start I would look at training and influences. Also Eric?? And relationship teacher


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

Thor said:


> Which means she still believes it is ok to hide it from you if she can get away with it.


Probably, but I think it's progress that she told me this time and it was 100% true. 

So, he is 'just a friend' as far as I can tell. I think he's a networking brown-noser, but that's how the world works.

I'll continue to keep an eye open, no head in the sand here...I know it could be the top of a slippery slope, but I'd need evidence of an EA before doing anything else. (terms of endearment, things they wouldn't say in front of me, more frequent contact, another secret meeting, etc)


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

You have to live your marriage as you see best

At least at this point by posting you have had opinions posted and are at the very least going to be extra vigilant

I do hope it goes the way you want as id be happy to be wrong with my thoughts of what is happening


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> Probably, but I think it's progress that she told me this time and it was 100% true.


I told my wife I'd divorce her if I found out anything else from other than her. Then I caught her in a big lie, but she confessed. Does that make the lie ok because eventually she confessed when cornered?

See, that is the game your wife is playing with you. She didn't tell you because she didn't want to. But when she thought she might get caught, she did tell you. Bam! She's off the hook for talking to the guy! Yay!

She's playing you.


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## Acoa (Sep 21, 2012)

mcquestion said:


> So, he is 'just a friend' as far as I can tell. I think he's a networking brown-noser, but that's how the world works.
> 
> I'll continue to keep an eye open, no head in the sand here...I know it could be the top of a slippery slope, but I'd need evidence of an EA before doing anything else. (terms of endearment, things they wouldn't say in front of me, more frequent contact, another secret meeting, etc)


If they work together that could be difficult to detect. She is wise to you, so they may only communicate that stuff in person, or via work related channels that you can't monitor. 

If you are patient, the truth eventually surfaces. You shouldn't have to play PI to figure out if she is being honest. That sucks.


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## SofaKingWeToddId (Feb 7, 2013)

Hey @mcquestion,

I'm sofakingwetoddid. I went through something very similar although my wife worked closely with the guy. The stage you are in is truly hell. Suspecting the person you love most of cheating is poison to a marriage. You sound a lot like me. You want to give your wife the benefit of the doubt, even though she is behaving in a way that is causing you pain. You are looking for a smoking gun to confront. 

If I could go back in time and react differently to my wife's behavior I would. It would have saved me a tremendous amount of pain.

I think you need to take action now. Stop waiting for the smoking gun to appear. It might never appear. Either because she is not in an affair or because she is conducting it in a way you can't detect. You need to come up with your boundaries and sit her down and discuss this. Let her know that her current behavior is causing you pain and you will no longer accept it. Be prepared for her to fight you on those boundaries. At this point I think you should take a loving but firm approach to this discussion. Once you have set those boundaries, STFU. Work on yourself. Find a new hobby. Re-connect with old friends. Work out. Do something!


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## mcquestion (Jan 8, 2016)

SofaKingWeToddId said:


> Hey @mcquestion,
> 
> I'm sofakingwetoddid. I went through something very similar although my wife worked closely with the guy. The stage you are in is truly hell. Suspecting the person you love most of cheating is poison to a marriage. You sound a lot like me. You want to give your wife the benefit of the doubt, even though she is behaving in a way that is causing you pain. You are looking for a smoking gun to confront.
> 
> ...


This guy and my wife worked together closely for several years, then he left, and now wants to come back (he hates his current job).

I believe I have defined my boundaries. No secrecy; no lies (of commission or omission), so no secret lunches, meetings etc. No drinking alone with him. Nothing date-like. I have NOT said 'no contact'.

I don't think I can do anything further at this point without sounding like a broken record to her.

anything specific I should watch out for? any 'misunderstandings' that I should foresee? (I don't see a thread about your history or I'd follow up there)


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Acoa said:


> *If they work together that could be difficult to detect*. She is wise to you, so they may only communicate that stuff in person, or via work related channels that you can't monitor.
> 
> If you are patient, the truth eventually surfaces. You shouldn't have to play PI to figure out if she is being honest. That sucks.


This is the hardest type of affair to uncover and the easiest to get into 

There are posts after posts littering this board

And now as you say Acoa shes onto him...geez I couldn't hack it with them working together/same building

I value my marriage more than her work and pay packet


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You have defined a boundary and she has met the boundary you defined.
She is not having an affair with him and will not see herself as doing anything wrong.
You should stop recording her.

Your problem is the boundary you set is not the one you really wanted to set. Thus you are still unhappy.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Hicks said:


> You have defined a boundary and she has met the boundary you defined.
> She is not having an affair with him and will not see herself as doing anything wrong.
> You should stop recording her.
> 
> Your problem is the boundary you set is not the one you really wanted to set. Thus you are still unhappy.


This is gold.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

No spouse should do anything that causes their partner anxiety or mistrust. Your wife is blatantly going against your wishes by keeping contact with this man. This is not something that should have to be spelled out for her. She should be able to see that her interactions with this man are causing you grief, and she should care enough about you to stop.

Well she isn't. You had a chance to set a firm boundary and you vacillated. So either you re-define your boundaries with her or you suck it up and deal with it.


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## destroyd (Feb 20, 2015)

After my wife had her affair, and I caught her, much later during our long talks I told her "you remember me asking you about the Coworker OM calling you at home too much to talk about 'business'- and me telling you it wasnt cool?" "And later when I questioned your need to text him while on our family vacation- and telling you I was NOT ok with it?" And you telling me it was "all business, and it was important". Yeah right. That was me trying to set boundaries and her totally ignoring them because she wanted to. 

Funny, that now, she can somehow do her job without him calling her at home or texting at all. Yep- it was real important- that affair business was- not legitimate work business. 

OP- just telling you- if you dont get a handle on this, it COULD quickly turn into what we are all talking about- if it didnt already happen back before when he used to work with her.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

mcquestion said:


> This guy and my wife worked together closely for several years, then he left, and now wants to come back (he hates his current job).
> 
> I believe I have defined my boundaries. No secrecy; no lies (of commission or omission), so no secret lunches, meetings etc. No drinking alone with him. Nothing date-like. I have NOT said 'no contact'.
> 
> ...


OK you have defined some weak boundaries.

Did you define the consequences for breaking the boundaries?

As in;

"If I catch you lying to me about him you will have to totally cut off all contact with him - no phone-no emails-no texts-nothing"

"If I find out you were alone with him without asking me first, I will consider it cheating and will consider divorce".

You should tell her what she can expect if she steps over the boundaries.

Then get your detective hat on because she will violate your trust. Then are you prepared to enforce the consequences when you catch her? Or will it just be another "sorry" from her and everything is back to you being the doormat for her while she continues to wipe her feet on you?

If you are not prepared to enforce consequences - don't even bother setting boundaries. Just take what she is giving you - no respect - no consideration.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My husband has always substituted his judgment for mine if I was concerned about something and he didn't like or agree with my concern. If, for instance, I was uncomfortable with a co-worker, he would tell me I'm being ridiculous and there's 'nothing to worry about' and he would continue doing whatever he wanted.

It never occurred to him that his behavior was hurting ME and that that, in fact, was the issue. Considering I'm not an alarmist or a jealous type, he should have wanted to behave in ways that didn't hurt me. He should have not been OK with my upset.

I won't accept this now. It's taken me years to assert my feelings about this. Now when he says 'you're being ridiculous,' I say, 'In your opinion, perhaps, but that ridiculousness will tank our marriage because I won't accept this selfishness anymore.'

Your W absolutely knows that this bothers you and why. If she were a loving wife, with empathy and caring for you, she would be sensitive to the effect of this on you and cut off contact with this man. You shouldn't put up with anything less, in my opinion. Why should you live in a marriage of continuous doubt and torture just because she's getting an ego boost from another man? She should WANT to erase that doubt.

I think you're just setting yourself up for more misery by not demanding that she cut this off completely. Sorry.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Why would you allow your wife to go to lunch/dinner with another man? By you allowing that tells her you are OK with her spending alone time with another man....your feelings are not important. If they used to work together I bet it's common for him to call the office line to talk to your wife.

My wife will NOT do that. If she has a business meeting with a client after hours or at a home office she will not go unless I can go with her or our teen son. No way in hell would she go eat alone with another man.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I think you should focus on building a better marriage for the time being. See a MC. Why see a MC if there is no big issues, you get a yearly check up, right? There was a group back in the seventies called marriage encounters that sponsored week-end work shops. What was interesting about this group was it's focus on healthy marriages. They did not accept couples who's marriage was in crisis. To attend their retreat you needed to be pre-screened. 

I knew several couples who overcame issuess like your's. So look around.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Reading this thread it is so obvious they had a PA a few years back and are working toward rehooking up. They don't have to talk sexually. It's all brewing in the background. Their just having friendly conversation but they're both on the same page. 

We just had another thread of a BH that discovered his WW was pursuing her former "EA" / former co-worker. Got a job at same company an all. After assuring BH that she'll be good, it's all about the wonderful company, within days she's propositioning former POS.
But this time he was not interested because his wife must've put the fear of God into him or he just thought she was to crass and cheap to risk it. Either way he wasn't interested but wife continued to try anyway. Husband confronted OM, and found out the prior EA was actually a PA. The dude confessed to receiving 2 BJs but everyone here at TAM knows it was a full sexual PA if his wife found out about it and he had to quit his job.

I bring that story up because it so similar to yours. So many BHs come starting threads that are so obviously jacked up but refuse to take action. You're looking for the smoking gun or in this case cum stain panties. Problem is you're not going to find it. But that doesn't mean you don't have enough to take a stand. Then when pressured by TAMers they either cut and run or start with all the bad things they did, as though that even things out or doesn't make them look weak.

This needs to be shut down.


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## Heartacher (Feb 22, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> My husband has always substituted his judgment for mine if I was concerned about something and he didn't like or agree with my concern. If, for instance, I was uncomfortable with a co-worker, he would tell me I'm being ridiculous and there's 'nothing to worry about' and he would continue doing whatever he wanted.
> 
> It never occurred to him that his behavior was hurting ME and that that, in fact, was the issue. Considering I'm not an alarmist or a jealous type, he should have wanted to behave in ways that didn't hurt me. He should have not been OK with my upset.
> 
> ...



While I totally agree with this, I have to say that when a spouse is getting some sort of buzz or gratification from a secret relationship outside the marriage it is like an addiction. They may know deep down what the ultimate consequences could be if they are caught out, but they take the risk anyhow because they are compelled to continue feeding the addiction. Junkies don't care who they hurt or what they do to feed the habit.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

grame said:


> But you didn't divorce her.


Yet.

Semi-separated.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

"destroyd", how are things going with you and the wife now??
You haven't updated since last year.

Sorry for the jack.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend you keep telling her NO MORE,NO MORE but your wife do it anyways. 

You dont stand behind your own words and your wife have no idea about boundaries and consequences.

Also she lost all respect for you.

If you think it is okay for your wife to DATE and text other men in any time of the day (morning,day,night),going out to dinners and stuff liek that,then maybe you deserve all of this.

Now they are going to work together for Five Days per week and you think they will talk about "job". Trust me they will about other things and maybe laught at you,but hey it is your life and your decision.

Stay strong


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

I've new into reading the book, "Not just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass. In this book, most affairs are from the job, and can easily be rekindled within seconds of seeing each other.
And as others have stated here, the affair *WILL* most likely start.

There is NO way they can work in the same place. I'd also recommend getting a restraining order, if possible.

A few weeks back, while very early in our "false-R" stage in which my WW was still thinking about the OM, we were setup to run into him and instantly things went to crap. I got mad and that drove her back into the affair fantasy. It turned ugly. The OM was a co-worker. Their "EX-BOSS" was trying to get my WW a job at one of her stores which as it turned out - was where the OM was working.

Even without knowing that, I said "working with such a woman who is friends with the OM is a problem, its not acceptable".

More on the book: http://www.shirleyglass.com/book.htm


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