# Flirty and persistent guy at my wife's job



## John Lee

So my wife has told me about this guy at work who has been seeking her attention a lot -- she's a teacher, and he's an older guy who runs an after school program, and every day in the time before my wife leaves he comes and hangs around her classroom and chats her up. It's pretty obvious to her and to me that he is hitting on her. She's been upfront with me about it all along and I don't have any reason to think she's doing more than being polite in return. But I still don't like the situation. He is apparently considerably older than her, like 20-30 years older, but good looking for his age (the older women in the school are actually starting to get jealous that this guy likes my wife). 

So should I advise her to do something about it other than be polite but cool? Should I do something about it? He hasn't exactly harassed her or anything, but he's obviously into her.


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## As'laDain

yes. she should tell him that she feel that he is flirting with her and that she feels that it is inappropriate and she is not comfortable with it. if he continues, she needs to escalate it to higher authority. 

the fact that your wife has been upfront with you means that she is focused on you, so you obviously dont have to worry about her cheating on you. she is focused on you. 

that doesn't mean she has to deal with a work environment that causes her to feel uncomfortable. you can raise the complaint for her if she is afraid of causing strife at work, but it would probably be best if she is the one who fixes it. either way, it needs to be addressed. 

you are both completely in your rights to tell the guy to back off. it doesnt even matter what his intentions are. what matters is what the two of you perceive.


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## AliceA

To be honest, she could probably get rid of him quite easily. 

"I'm sorry, I can't chat, I have marking to do/have to get home/have an appointment/need to check my emails etc."

You and her obviously think 'polite but cool' will be sufficient to show him she's not interested, but (no offence) guys are notoriously bad for picking up on a woman's 'I'm not interested in you' vibe. She'll just have to cut him off at the start. He'll move onto the next possibility soon enough.

If it's really just starting to annoy her, maybe you could show up to pick her up from her classroom one afternoon, for a romantic evening out, on a day he'd usually be there, maybe that would help just to confirm that there's a husband figure very much in the picture.


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## manticore

whatever you do (you talking directly with him or her begining to be cold and rude with him) it have to be done as fast as possible and blunt.

remember that this kind of player don't take a friendly no as answer and they keep trying and trying until they see and opening and engage emotinally their target, there have been other cases like yours where the spouse is honest with the husband (like your case) but like it was treated as a minimun threat, that the woman could resolve on her own after some months ended in an affairs, I still remember one similar case here (I know there are many more but don't remember the users):

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/27214-my-mess.html

read this thread, a situation very similar to yours, remember be blunt and tell him that your wife informs you everything.


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## The Middleman

You should ask your wife to just nicely tell this guy to stop coming around, that you are not comfortable with what's going on. If there is a reluctance on your wife's part to do this; maybe she doesn't want to be rude, then you do it. There is nothing wrong with you finding this guy and telling him you don't want him sucking around your wife. Manticore is right, you can't brush this off.


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## alexm

Show up at the school every day for one week to pick her up. You may have to leave work early, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Time it so you're there 5 minutes after school ends, so it gives the guy enough time to head on over to her classroom and chat her up. When introduced, tell him you've heard of him, but not in a smiling, fawning type of way. Shake his hand with a very firm grip, turn to your wife, give her a nice kiss on the lips, and ask her if she's ready to go.

Or some variation of that. Just make yourself visible for a little bit. And if you have kids, bring them along.

To guys like this, they notice when they never see the husband around, or worse, the husband is always sitting in the car outside, or otherwise in the background.


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## Starstarfish

> you can raise the complaint for her if she is afraid of causing strife at work, but it would probably be best if she is the one who fixes it. either way, it needs to be addressed.


He could probably talk to the guy, but I wouldn't suggest he be the one who "takes it up the food chain." A spouse coming in to talk to someone's boss makes you look infantile.


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## alexm

The Middleman said:


> You should ask your wife to just nicely tell this guy to stop coming around, that you are not comfortable with what's going on. If there is a reluctance on your wife's part to do this; maybe she doesn't want to be rude, then you do it. There is nothing wrong with you finding this guy and telling him you don't want him sucking around your wife. Manticore is right, you can't brush this off.


I disagree - this shows weakness in this case. At a bar or something, this type of move works. In a place where she has to see him every work day, it makes it uncomfortable for everybody, including her. And it makes you look jealous, controlling, etc. or worse - you don't trust her.

It's when he doesn't get the hints that some pressure needs to be applied.


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## Caribbean Man

This is a simple one.
OP, your wife is a teacher and part of the teaching staff. This man I suppose is her superior.
All she has to do is tell one or two or the other female and male teaching staff,who knows , maybe they're experiencing the sam thing from him.
Then she should ask one of them to stick around after school when she knows he's going to be coming around and firmly tell him that she prefers to keep all conversations between them professional , work related and no more after work hours visits.
But she must do it in from of at least one or more witnesses.

If he persists, then file a sexual harassment claim with management.


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## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> I disagree - this shows weakness in this case. At a bar or something, this type of move works. In a place where she has to see him every work day, it makes it uncomfortable for everybody, including her. And it makes you look jealous, controlling, etc. or worse - you don't trust her.
> 
> It's when he doesn't get the hints that some pressure needs to be applied.



Before my wife and I got married, she had a similar problem.
She used to attend classes on afternoons after work. A guy whom we both knew also happened to be in her class , suddenly " showed up " close to her workplace after work one afternoon and offered her a drop to classes.
She accepted , and he decided to continue picking her up for classes. I told her that I didn't like him, neither the arrangement.

She said it was nothing , that he's a " nice guy " , they attended the same church ,and he respects women, usual blah, blah , blah.

I just nodded my head and smiled.

Well , Mr. " nice guy " decided to make a first move one day after church. When he saw her , he decided to give her a full frontal ,tight embrace.
She mentioned it to me and I told her to tell him to stop passing to pick her up. She agreed , because she was finally getting the picture and getting uncomfortable.
But Mr. "Nice Guy" still decided to pass after work to pick her up for classes , and she felt awkward , so she accepted.
Then the next weekend after church, she tried to avoid him , but still he came in for that full body ,frontal hug.
She was furious , but felt that she couldn't tell him to stop.
So she told me to " handle him ", because she couldn't.

Music to my ears.

I decided to " pay him a visit " soon after at his home , and confronted him.

He definitely got the message.
Not only did he stop coming to her workplace.
He even dropped out of her afternoon class, joined another class, and she also told me that he avoided her in church.


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## mablenc

She needs to be firm with him and tell him that she is not comfortable with his conversations and behavior. She's a grown woman and this is a necessary skill in life. If he continues, she needs to document the incidents and speak to management.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

My EA was with a man 20+ years older than me. He was at first just chatty and friendly giving advice, then a bit flirty. I was open about all these exchanges and it was fine with everyone because he was old and was "just being nice" and I wasn't at all attracted to him, but when it started to get more flirty and I found myself looking forward to the self-esteem boost and didn't tell my H about some of the more flirty things... then texts... Little by little I was hiding more and more and getting more and more involved in it. 

Anyway, my point is this- it can get out of control quickly but also in a way that it can start with just one lie (or withholding 1 comment) to another so it's not just inappropriate all at once KWIM? It can turn into an EA easier than you think. 

If I could go back, I'd be rude. I'd be direct and stop it before it ever began. I would make it clear that I was not open to being flirted with. That is my plan if it ever happens again. It's too risky, too close to the line. So that would be the advice I would give your wife. 

Oh and when H made a visit to him or whenever he would make an appearance, it scared the other guy sh*tless. He didn't think it was weak at all. He wanted to stop speaking with me after speaking with H but by that time it was already an EA and I talked him out of it because I wanted to continue the self-esteem boosts


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## F-102

I like alexm's idea about the smile and a firm handshake, but say "Oh, my W has told me about you..." then tighten your grip, and add: "...ALL about you." while looking him dead in the eye with a stare that could freeze lava.


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## The Middleman

alexm said:


> I disagree - this shows weakness in this case. At a bar or something, this type of move works. In a place where she has to see him every work day, it makes it uncomfortable for everybody, including her.


Let's agree to disagree on this one. I'm sure that I'm older than most of you guys here and I have a different attitude ... more of a "take charge" attitude about these things. To me it sounds like this guy is a predator and he is looking to bed the OP's wife. These kinds of characters have to be dealt with swiftly and in no uncertain terms. I agree that the op should let his wife know he wants it to end and she should be the one to do it, swiftly and in no uncertain terms. BUT, if she isn't going to do it, he has to and right away. What ever the fall out of him doing it might be is better than what may happen if this guy isn't told to take a hike. Once again, read the link that Manticore posted; that can happen!



alexm said:


> And it makes you look jealous, controlling, etc. or worse - you don't trust her.


I could care less what my wife or anyone else thinks, I will do what I think is necessary to protect what is mine. I would never allow this to go on in my marriage. Again, maybe this is a generational thing, but I don't give an F what others think, I never did; especially when it comes to these matters. Actually something similar happened to me several years ago and I told my wife she had to stop e-mailing an ex-BF and I "communicated" with him to make sure he knew I wanted it to stop. My wife wasn't happy about it, but she got over it.



alexm said:


> It's when he doesn't get the hints that some pressure needs to be applied.


I agree, but don't wait.


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## John Lee

Caribbean Man said:


> This is a simple one.
> OP, your wife is a teacher and part of the teaching staff. This man I suppose is her superior.
> All she has to do is tell one or two or the other female and male teaching staff,who knows , maybe they're experiencing the sam thing from him.
> Then she should ask one of them to stick around after school when she knows he's going to be coming around and firmly tell him that she prefers to keep all conversations between them professional , work related and no more after work hours visits.
> But she must do it in from of at least one or more witnesses.
> 
> If he persists, then file a sexual harassment claim with management.


He's actually not a superior, just a guy who runs a sports program at the school. She actually has already asked her assistant to stick around in the afternoon when the guy comes. So that's a good start I guess. But he keeps coming around and the reason I started this thread is that he dropped an inappropriate sex reference into the conversation, so it suddenly became clear to me what was going on. 

Unfortunately it's difficult for me to "drop by" -- I work longer hours and kind of far from where she works. So I may have to ask her to be more direct and firm with the guy.


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## mablenc

She needs to learn to stand up for herself, you cannot be there all the time. It takes a firm tone. She could practice with you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## A Bit Much

It's good she's telling you what's happening, even to the point of the sex reference. 

Ask her if she wants you to do something about it, you have no problem with that. If she says no she's got it, then trust that. If she's communicating what's going on, I'm sure she'll say when this has gone over her head. In the meantime, keep listening.


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## Philat

mablenc said:


> She needs to learn to stand up for herself, you cannot be there all the time. It takes a firm tone. She could practice with you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Assuming she does not particularly welcome this attention, all she needs to do is excuse herself (or ask him to leave) because she is busy. Cooly and politely (emphasis on cooly). Two or three days in a row of this and he'll get the message.


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## mablenc

A simple "Bob, as a married woman these conversations, hugs, jokes, comments make me uncomfortable,I would like to keep our relationship strictly professional. I hope you understand."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee

I would be willing to contact the guy and say "Listen, your visits to my wife's classroom are making her uncomfortable, and I have to ask you to stop coming around." But I think you're right that it's best if she says something first.


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## samyeagar

breeze said:


> To be honest, she could probably get rid of him quite easily.
> 
> "I'm sorry, I can't chat, I have marking to do/have to get home/have an appointment/need to check my emails etc."
> 
> You and her obviously think 'polite but cool' will be sufficient to show him she's not interested, but (no offence) guys are notoriously bad for picking up on a woman's 'I'm not interested in you' vibe. She'll just have to cut him off at the start. He'll move onto the next possibility soon enough.
> 
> If it's really just starting to annoy her, maybe you could show up to pick her up from her classroom one afternoon, for a romantic evening out, on a day he'd usually be there, maybe that would help just to confirm that there's a husband figure very much in the picture.


I wouldn't make excuses. I would shut it down by being honest..."I am married and don't appreciate this kind of attention." I would assume he knows she is married, and by making excuses, it is sending the message that there are lots of reasons she can't continue this, but her husband and marriage is not one of them, when that is the only one that is actually important. Almost a denial of the marriage by omission.


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## sh987

At this stage, an "I'm married, so I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to chat me up" will do. If that doesn't register (and I'd bet you a dollar to a donut that it won't) then I see no issue with her proceeding to "Look, I was nice. Now, fvck off, and leave me alone!"

What does she care if he thinks that she's rude?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Employee assistance program is useful in taking care of these kinds of issues. But really, OP, your wife should be able to handle the situation. She could say, look, I don't mind chatting with you every once in a while but this has become a habit I'm not very comfortable with. Firstly, it's interrupting my work/schedule and I not longer have control of my valuable time from (times go here) when I need to make the transition from classroom to .... and take care of my admin/followup work from teaching while it's fresh in my mind. Secondly, friendship aside, you are a man and I am a woman and this is where I work. My reputation is very important to me and I appreciate your assistance in not creating an ongoing situation where our relationship as anything other than coworkers could be misconstrued and damaging to how we can perform our jobs. 

(Get feedback from guy, then close.)

So, to be clear, I have asked you not to come around my office/classroom to chat. Do you understand what I'm asking?

(Yes...) (Or if guy tries to give justification/excuse/meant no harm, going to stop by anyhow because it's his right... take it one level higher.)

OK, I'm hearing that you intend to keep stopping by. I understand your point of view. Thanks for listening to mine. (Then go to Employee Assistance program and inform supervisor as a heads' up...)

Otherwise, repeat as necessary.

If he is rude about it, can just say, go away, I am busy. Did I not tell you that your visits are unwelcome and unnecessary to my work? 

Call security if necessary to have person removed from office/classroom.

I don't really see how a woman getting her HUSBAND to come to her work to solve a work problem is going to send any kind of message to this guy other than she's an EASY TARGET because she can't manage to solve her own boundary issues....


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## samyeagar

sh987 said:


> At this stage, an "I'm married, so I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to chat me up" will do. If that doesn't register (and I'd bet you a dollar to a donut that it won't) then I see no issue with her proceeding to "Look, I was nice. Now, fvck off, and leave me alone!"
> 
> *What does she care if he thinks that she's rude*?


Too many people fall right into that. I can't say no because I can't be rude. Well, how disrespectful is it to your spouse that you are not willing to stand up for your marriage? That sends a message that someone elses feelings are more important, which is the wrong message to send to both the other person, but more importantly, your spouse.


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## sh987

samyeagar said:


> Too many people fall right into that. I can't say no because I can't be rude. Well, how disrespectful is it to your spouse that you are not willing to stand up for your marriage? That sends a message that someone elses feelings are more important, which is the wrong message to send to both the other person, but more importantly, your spouse.


I was young once. Back in my single days, I remember hitting on a woman (unmarried) and she was, in retrospect, being nice about it. I tried again and she shut me down HARD. LOL!

It was fine. She got to go about her business, and I got to about the daily business of all 21 year old males: hitting on everything in a skirt. Saved us both further hassle.

This guy's been around the block, and will just move once he's been told in no uncertain terms that his attention isn't appreciated.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

samyeagar said:


> "I am married and don't appreciate this kind of attention."


That's using marriage as an excuse. The guy sounds like a real jerk, rude and intrusive. In a workplace. Why even bring marriage into it. Just say, I don't want to be spending my work time on social interaction with you, thank you very much, bye bye, please get out of my face kind of thing.

Creeps will take the whole marriage thing as well, if she weren't married then she'd be interested, and the only thing she's worried about is getting caught and would otherwise be welcome to his attention. Hiding behind a ring is a silly tactic. Just learn to establish boundaries with people you don't want within them. Once you open the can of worms of having some REASON why you don't want the attention, then you find you ALWAYS have to explain why you don't want someone around. If you don't give a reason (and you shouldn't have to, if the interaction isn't work-related) then you spare yourself of having to come up with them for any given situation. And you really don't need a reason! Married, not married, busy, not busy. And oh, feel free to socialize at work with whomever you do want to socialize with. If the guy complains well, so and so hangs out with you, say, really, how do you know? You stalking me, I hope not! (And give mean look.)

If you're not firm about this, you can expect problems in future. These types of people only have respect for people who draw clear lines and defend them.

I had to do this with a guy from my former Quaker Meeting. I ran into him in a grocery store after and he started the whole chat chat thing with me and I was polite enough, but kept doing what I was doing, then I saw a flash of recognition on his face, remember boundaries I'd drawn and he stopped mid-sentence and hustled away to another part of the store. I think he hangs out amongst Quaker meetings because they are always polite to him. But, stalking is stalking.


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## Jellybeans

The solution is so simple: she needs to shut him down.

If he persists, she can take it up with the school.


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## sh987

This is slightly off-topic, but makes me think of something for me and my wife.

My wife doesn't drive, so I pick her up from work. She works at a hospital in an office job, having moved up into an admin position. Has an office in the surgical ward. I always used to wait in the parking lot in a pick-up/drop-off zone. Sit, listen to the radio, etc, and wait for her to come out.

About four months ago, I told her "I think, as much as possible, I'll come up to your office to pick you up at the end of the day." She beamed when I said that; got really happy. I added to that by dropping in with surprise lunches from time to time, and she always gets super excited when I do that.

So, I've met quite a few of the folks there. Her boss, a number of co-worker, various surgeons and anesthesiologists, sales reps (since switching from nursing into an nursing-related admin job a little over a year ago, she deals with lots of them now), etc...

Anyway, it's pretty funny, because just a couple of weeks ago, she was saying how nice it is that I started that. She likes the extra time, and even little things like holding a door open for her, eating together, etc. But, she noticed other little things.

"My boss used to have this habit of coming in right at the end of the day. 'Do you have 15 minutes? We need to go over some stuff.' I used to have some reps who were really pushy and a pain in the a$$. Some of the surgeons would come in and be rude if something I ordered didn't get shipped in, as if I control when a part leaves the distribution centre. Funny thing though: not long after you started picking me up at my office, most of that stuff stopped. They're all MUCH better to deal with now."

I didn't start going up there to stake my territory or anything like that (at least not consciously) but isn't it amazing that pushy people began treating her a lot better once I was around her just a little bit?


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## samyeagar

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> That's using marriage as an excuse. The guy sounds like a real jerk, rude and intrusive. In a workplace. Why even bring marriage into it. Just say, I don't want to be spending my work time on social interaction with you, thank you very much, bye bye, please get out of my face kind of thing.
> 
> Creeps will take the whole marriage thing as well, if she weren't married then she'd be interested, and the only thing she's worried about is getting caught and would otherwise be welcome to his attention. Hiding behind a ring is a silly tactic. Just learn to establish boundaries with people you don't want within them. Once you open the can of worms of having some REASON why you don't want the attention, then you find you ALWAYS have to explain why you don't want someone around. If you don't give a reason (and you shouldn't have to, if the interaction isn't work-related) then you spare yourself of having to come up with them for any given situation. And you really don't need a reason! Married, not married, busy, not busy. And oh, feel free to socialize at work with whomever you do want to socialize with. If the guy complains well, so and so hangs out with you, say, really, how do you know? You stalking me, I hope not! (And give mean look.)
> 
> If you're not firm about this, you can expect problems in future. These types of people only have respect for people who draw clear lines and defend them.
> 
> I had to do this with a guy from my former Quaker Meeting. I ran into him in a grocery store after and he started the whole chat chat thing with me and I was polite enough, but kept doing what I was doing, then I saw a flash of recognition on his face, remember boundaries I'd drawn and he stopped mid-sentence and hustled away to another part of the store. I think he hangs out amongst Quaker meetings because they are always polite to him. But, stalking is stalking.


I get what you are saying here. I was working under the assumption that she didn't want the attention, but might be open to it if she was not married. We can't really say for sure since she is not actually the one here.


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## mablenc

Marriage is exactly the excuse why she doesn't want him flirting with her. Although, I completely agree with you Homemaker.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## F-102

JL, I would take him aside and tell him to go bark up another tree, but ONLY if my W knew about it, and wanted me to handle it. If you go and do it without her knowledge, that could get tongues wagging in the teachers lounge, which may make trouble for your W.

But I do agree with others, have your w talk to other females there about him, I'd be willing to bet that hers is not the only tree he's been sniffing around.


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## alexm

The Middleman said:


> Let's agree to disagree on this one.
> 
> *I am going to disagree, and here's why:*
> 
> To me it sounds like this guy is a predator and he is looking to bed the OP's wife.
> 
> *Not necessarily. People (including co-workers) can talk to each other without an agenda. It's not likely that's the case here, but I wouldn't quite call him a "predator" just yet.*
> 
> These kinds of characters have to be dealt with swiftly and in no uncertain terms. I agree that the op should let his wife know he wants it to end and she should be the one to do it, swiftly and in no uncertain terms.
> 
> *First and foremost. SHE should be given the chance/opportunity to do it. Without his intervention.*
> 
> BUT, if she isn't going to do it, he has to and right away. What ever the fall out of him doing it might be is better than what may happen if this guy isn't told to take a hike. Once again, read the link that Manticore posted; that can happen!
> 
> *Agreed, but not in a way that allows the man to see him in a negative light. I will tell you why in a sec.*
> 
> I could care less what my wife or anyone else thinks, I will do what I think is necessary to protect what is mine. I would never allow this to go on in my marriage. Again, maybe this is a generational thing, but I don't give an F what others think, I never did; especially when it comes to these matters. Actually something similar happened to me several years ago and I told my wife she had to stop e-mailing an ex-BF and I "communicated" with him to make sure he knew I wanted it to stop. My wife wasn't happy about it, but she got over it.
> 
> *Different scenario. This is in the workplace, and contact can't be avoided. The TYPE of contact can be avoided. He's also not an ex. It's a professional environment, and all parties must act in that manner.
> 
> Here is why I disagree with the "guns a blazin'" approach: If this man is truly after OP's wife, having OP come in and essentially threaten the man might have the exact opposite effect. He may take that as an opportunity that he can twist and manipulate into a scenario in which OP is jealous, weak, quick to anger, etc. It would be EXTREMELY easy for him to approach OP's wife sometime later and deny, deny, deny, and turn the conversation into how his feelings are hurt, he only has an interest in her professionally, etc etc etc. In other words, he can play the "poor me" card to full effect, and given the fact that he's likely in his 5o's or 60's, makes it even more effective and easy to feel sorry for him. (I don't mean to be ageist with that comment. I mean as opposed to 25 year old Johnny Player, it would be easier to see past what he's doing)
> 
> Furthermore, all he has to do at that point is say something along the lines of "I would never have disrespected you like that. I would have trusted you, and allowed you to make your own decisions and speak to whomever you want to speak with."
> 
> Now, OP's wife is very likely not to fall for crap like that, but you never know. If she's already in the midst of receiving the ego boosts from this guy, she will feel even a slight tinge of defensiveness towards him. And depending on how she feels about him professionally and respect-wise, not to mention that they share a profession (one that most are passionate about) there WILL be some defensiveness towards him. And now he's attracted the fish with his bait. He just has to land that sucker after that.
> 
> My point is that approaching this scenario in that way could prove to make things worse. Could, not will. I just don't think it's the right play in THIS scenario.
> 
> My previous suggestion of OP speaking to his wife, and then following up by making himself more visible is the best way to deal with him. IF he is after her, he is looking for weakness in the marriage, which he can pounce upon. If he never sees her husband around, there's one weakness. If he's visible as well as conveying the message that they are very much in love and that their marriage is good, he will move along, guaranteed.*
> 
> 
> I agree, but don't wait.


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## John Lee

Nope, the guy's a predator. It's obvious to me.


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## manticore

John Lee said:


> I would be willing to contact the guy and say "Listen, your visits to my wife's classroom are making her uncomfortable, and I have to ask you to stop coming around." But I think you're right that it's best if she says something first.


sorry John, I disagree, you don't have to wait for her to try in to brush hin off on her own, from the moment he crossed the line with the sexual reference, this stopped being professional and become 100% your problem.

If the marital predator "findingmyway" leave us as teaching was that, it does not matter if the married woman said she is not interested as long as her husband isn't around or as long as she don't create a big drama (like a big fight in front of many people) you can keep trying and still succeed in the end.

Quote from "findingmyway"
*"I have been the OM in your situation and know several others like that as well. It was always about sex and nothing more. You were played, plain and simple. I never flirted harmlessly with a married woman. I certainly tried to have it appear that way, but I always wanted in her pants. If she responded to my actions, I simply persisted and let things develop. It is a very safe approach and has worked well.

If you would have told me that you were interested in nothing physical. I would have responded just like he did."*

you want to play by society rules in a profesional and polite way while he is disregarding all those rules (he didn't care she is married, he did't care she is a coworker, and is making sexual comments to your wife) and is playing the by primal rules (he wants the female he go after her).

he feels himself as the alpha of the place, he knows the other older ladies want him and that he is attractive so he can't visualize your wife saying no in the end.

Jellybeans, mablenc, I know women can take care of themselves very well, and can be strong and independent, this is not a bout visualizing women as weak or incapables without their men, please take in consideration that these men are very maipulative and evolve and adapt their means to achive their targets, humans can become experts in whatever they try with perseverance and time, and some men have decades of experince seducing and targeting married women.

"fandingmyway" for the way he expressed in his convesations he have slept with more than 20 MW, I have seen others in players pages that have slelpt with more than 50 (including ONS, drunken ONS and affaris) in a couple of decades, should we assume all this women were ****s, I really don't think so.

One thing that they always say is that they back down when they know the woman is informing her husband or if the husband know of their advances before they emotionally engage them in their game (once women are emotionally engaged pretty much happens what happened to "devastateddad" and "mr mathias" the woman become an accomplice even if there have not been intercourse yet).

John Lee, caontacting him (even by pone) not only will make him back down but it will also less massy that if your wife have to report him to the school, once he knows your wife is reporting you everything he will not risk in make further attemps.


----------



## Pepper123

Cut him off at the pass -- she needs to tell him to stop hanging around so much. 

Since she has been up front about it with you, I am not sure you have any reason to be concerned... but if things between you and her got shaky and she has someone waiting on the sidelines... it could be a mess.


----------



## AliceA

The facts are all there for an obvious conclusion. Your wife likes the attention. She hasn't shut him down, she's encouraging him by participating. She's told you all the other ladies are jealous of her and he's attractive. You aren't going to step in because you're working, so it's basically all up to her, and she's not going to stop it because she likes it. Telling you about it just makes out like her actions are all above board and she's done nothing wrong, and all she has to do is pretend she's just 'being polite' to continue getting this attention.

Regardless of everything written here, she has had the power to put a stop to this quite easily. She doesn't want to.


----------



## soccermom2three

breeze said:


> The facts are all there for an obvious conclusion. Your wife likes the attention. She hasn't shut him down, she's encouraging him by participating. She's told you all the other ladies are jealous of her and he's attractive. You aren't going to step in because you're working, so it's basically all up to her, and she's not going to stop it because she likes it. Telling you about it just makes out like her actions are all above board and she's done nothing wrong, and all she has to do is pretend she's just 'being polite' to continue getting this attention.
> 
> Regardless of everything written here, she has had the power to put a stop to this quite easily. She doesn't want to.



I don't think it's fair to say because she's not shutting it down that it means she likes it. 

If John's wife is like me, non-confrontional, then it's really difficult to be mean or "shut him down". We just hope the person finally gets a clue and goes away. I think the guy is bothering her and that's why she told John. I think she's asking him to mate-guard and if he doesn't then it's a big fail for John. I agree that he needs to show up at her work and introduce himself to the guy. He will probably only need to do it one time and the guy will get the picture. His wife will love it too, I know I would.


----------



## Hicks

Does your wife want it to stop?


----------



## naiveonedave

I think she is testing the waters, will he mate guard or is she free to pursue stuff. Soccermom's post. If he doesn't, she will be pissed and this will go further, imo.


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## AliceA

I think it's pretty safe to say she's enjoying the attention. She's not a young twit who couldn't find her way out of a paper bag, she's a grown woman. She's talking to him every afternoon and putting up with sexual innuendo (or as my DH would say, 'in your endo' zomg, he's such a perv, lol). 

If he was horrible and all the other ladies felt sorry for her, I bet she'd have found a way to extract herself from these chats quite easily.


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## Clay2013

I think its really on your wife to set the ground rules. If she is not doing this to be polite then this is clearly a problem with boundaries. If she feels she can't do anything about it then I would step in and deal with it but she should be the one telling him to leave. He keeps coming back because no one is saying "Go Away".

In the end you will probably have to deal with it yourself. 

Clay


----------



## Coffee Amore

It sounds like she's non-confrontational as many women are. That doesn't mean she enjoys the attention. She needs to practice saying the things that will shut down interactions with him. In the previous pages, there are several good examples of what she could say to this man. Having the husband step in is only a temporary solution. Is the husband planning to be with her 24 hours 7 days a week? Other men will hit on her in various public and private settings. She needs to learn to shut it down because he can't be there at all times.


----------



## Horizon

Go in hard! Straight up to him - no handshaking / macho playacting BS - straight in close and tell him how it will go for him if you get even a whiff that he approaches your wife in any way other than on a professional basis. Wife doesn't like this approach? Too bad - it's dog eat dog mate. That I have learned the hard way. And you'll get much closer to the truth IMO.


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## soccermom2three

breeze said:


> I think it's pretty safe to say she's enjoying the attention. She's not a young twit who couldn't find her way out of a paper bag, she's a grown woman. She's talking to him every afternoon and putting up with sexual innuendo (or as my DH would say, 'in your endo' zomg, he's such a perv, lol).
> 
> If he was horrible and all the other ladies felt sorry for her, I bet she'd have found a way to extract herself from these chats quite easily.


Sorry, I'm a grown woman and I hate conflict and confrontation. I will avoid both if I can, even if I'm uncomfortable. Is it healthy? Probably not but unfortunately it's the way some people are.


----------



## AliceA

Coffee Amore said:


> It sounds like she's non-confrontational as many women are. That doesn't mean she enjoys the attention. She needs to practice saying the things that will shut down interactions with him. In the previous pages, there are several good examples of what she could say to this man. Having the husband step in is only a temporary solution. Is the husband planning to be with her 24 hours 7 days a week? Other men will hit on her in various public and private settings. She needs to learn to shut it down because he can't be there at all times.


Lol, she's human right? Of course she's enjoying the attention, deep down somewhere there's a little spark of 'ooh, the charming handsome guy is paying me attention over all the rest'. He's going out of his way to chat to HER. It might make her a little uncomfortable, but overall, she hasn't even made an excuse (not even an EXCUSE) not to stand around and chat with him. He's even made sexual comments and she's still doing it. 

I'm not saying she'll cheat, I'm not saying she's a bad person, I'm saying that sometimes we have to accept we are human, and the attentions of a person that most find to be a very choicy mate are not going to make us cringe, they're going to make us flutter. It makes people so uncomfortable to think we are so easy to manipulate, but we are. You are. We all are.

What has her husband done lately in comparison? I don't know. Has he made her feel like she's special too? Are the other ladies jealous of her because they saw how much attention she was getting from her hunky husband? No, he's at work, nothing wrong with that, but the answer is still 'no'.


----------



## The Middleman

John Lee said:


> Nope, the guy's a predator. It's obvious to me.


And that is how I read your original post and why I wrote my original response ... and I stand by that response. I truly believe that you need to let your wife know how you feel and ask her to address it. I also see nothing wrong with you addressing it, in an appropriate manner, if she doesn't.


----------



## John Lee

Good stuff, thanks. I'm sure she does like the attention, even though she hasn't done anything to make me not trust her (in fact she asked her assistant to always stay around when he's there). But I realized yesterday that this is going too far and more needs to be done. At first I was like "whatever, harmless older guy," now I see he's not so harmless.


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## The Middleman

John Lee said:


> But I realized yesterday that *this is going too far and more needs to be done*. At first I was like "whatever, harmless older guy," now I see he's not so harmless.


That's great to hear. This puts you ahead of most guys who come here with similar issues. Always protect what's yours ... meaning your family.


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## manticore

John Lee said:


> Good stuff, thanks. I'm sure she does like the attention, even though she hasn't done anything to make me not trust her (in fact she asked her assistant to always stay around when he's there). But I realized yesterday that this is going too far and more needs to be done. At first I was like "whatever, harmless older guy," now I see he's not so harmless.


no they are not man, many OMs of TAMmers here are 20 years older than them.

the more recent case was flabergasted 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/158129-she-cheated-after-22-years-marriage.html

OM is 20 year older than them


----------



## soccermom2three

John Lee said:


> Good stuff, thanks. I'm sure she does like the attention, even though she hasn't done anything to make me not trust her (in fact she asked her assistant to always stay around when he's there). But I realized yesterday that this is going too far and more needs to be done. At first I was like "whatever, harmless older guy," now I see he's not so harmless.


Have you read Flabbergasted thread in CWI? The OM was a retired dude 20 years old than Flabber's wife.


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## soccermom2three

IMO, if she liked the attention she wouldn't have told you about it. She told you and she's asked her assistant to remain in the classroom. She's uncomfortable.

I guess I would like to think that if I was in your wife's shoes, I would hope my husband would actually give a **** that another man was trying to make a move on me. Not be blasé about it. That would be a turn off. (I'm not saying you are being blasé). 

I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned?


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## Maricha75

Soccermom, if you're old fashioned, then so am I. I thought the same thing. She doesn't like confrontation. And the assistant being asked to stick around was an attempt to make things less uncomfortable. I am, in some ways, a confrontational type of woman. However, in a professional setting, such as the school? Nope. I would request that someone be around at all times, to, hopefully, avoid such inappropriate comments as John has said have occurred.

John, I agree with those who suggest taking off work a little early one day. Just surprise her with a date or something. Show up at the school to pick her up. This way, you can see which is correct: is she inviting the attention (likely a fleeting look of shock/embarrassment if so), or trying to get him to back off without causing trouble at work (she would light up when she sees you).... it could go either way, but easily assessed by surprising her after work.


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## Accipiter777

What my wife and I do is simple. When someone flirts with her... she makes references involving me. 

My husband this

My husband that

I had a women tell me in a round about way that she'd "no strings attached" blow me... my response was:

"My wife did that for me this morning" 

Flirty people DO NOT want to hear about a good relationship.


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## Philat

Coffee Amore said:


> It sounds like she's non-confrontational as many women are. That doesn't mean she enjoys the attention. She needs to practice saying the things that will shut down interactions with him. In the previous pages, there are several good examples of what she could say to this man. Having the husband step in is only a temporary solution. Is the husband planning to be with her 24 hours 7 days a week? Other men will hit on her in various public and private settings. She needs to learn to shut it down because he can't be there at all times.


This nails it. The issue is not whether or not OP's wife is about to cheat or anything like that, but about how capable she is of enforcing her boundaries.


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## Malcolm38

As has been stated, she may very well be a non confrontational type. 

I manage an office, and one of my employees is just that type. We have had some customers in the past who she has been VERY uncomfortable with because they can be flirty, and she just cannot bring herself to be stern or negative with them. I know for a fact she doesn't enjoy it, or is wanting it at all. 

In those cases I just take over the sales role from her with that client and that has tended to end that. But this sounds like it's not going to be that easy of a solution. 

I think I would just ask her if she wants to let the guy know his advances are not welcome, or would she prefer that you do it. But either way, he is going to be told to buzz off.


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## F-102

Accipiter777 said:


> What my wife and I do is simple. When someone flirts with her... she makes references involving me.
> 
> My husband this
> 
> My husband that
> 
> I had a women tell me in a round about way that she'd "no strings attached" blow me... my response was:
> 
> "My wife did that for me this morning"
> 
> Flirty people DO NOT want to hear about a good relationship.


Agreed. If your W shoots him down, and if it is necessary, you (TACTFULLY) block him, he will doubtless leave your W alone and go off in search of easier pickings. These flirty predators are just like bullies: do they pick on someone their own size? NO-they go after the weak ones that are easy prey.


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## sh987

I showed my wife this thread last night.

"If a guy kept hitting on me, wasn't getting the idea, and I mention it to you like she did, it's because I'd want you to do something about it. Not to get in his face, but to make yours visible so he can see you're on top of things."


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## John Lee

Well, I had a talk with her and asked her to say something to him. I said that it was clear to me that this guy's intentions were not good, and even though I trusted her, I still didn't want this guy coming around hitting on her. She said ok.

So later in the night, she suddenly is upset with me. Apparently I haven't taken out some recycling that I hadn't actually realized was recycling, and she's more generally upset with me because I'm not doing enough around the house and staying up too late -- the thing is, she's not entirely wrong, but these aren't exactly new issues and lately I actually thought I had been pretty good (e.g. I had just gotten done a home-repair job that she had been asking me to do). So I'm wondering what the hell is going on, and finally she says "No wonder I wind up talking to this guy at work."

This is the part where I have to credit TAM, because I instantly recognized the rationalization BS that was going on, so I stayed calm and said "Oh, so that's what this is really about." I was firm, I didn't back down, and I didn't let her flip the script so that the problem was shifted to me, but I didn't fly into a rage either. Finally she admitted that she likes getting the attention, that the guy is interesting to talk to, and that she's flattered that someone thinks she's attractive.

I told her I completely understood why she would like that attention, that everyone does sometimes, but that it was clear to me that this guy had bad intentions and I didn't want him hanging around her anymore. The thing is, I really do understand that it's natural to enjoy that kind of attention, and I don't blame her for it, as long as she's willing to shut it down when it crosses a line. So I'll wait and see if she's actually willing to shut it down.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

One of the reasons I was telling H about it wasn't so he would do something about it but because it made my own conscience feel better about it. I knew it was getting too close but if I was open about it maybe it wasn't as wrong (in my mind, trying to justify it) Even when I would leave out some stuff, I would tell him other stuff to try to prove it was still just friendly and it eased his fears because I was still being "open" even though I was leaving parts out that he didn't know about. 

I was being told stuff like "whenever I'm in a relationship I like to do all the cooking and cleaning and treat my woman like a princess" All the lying player crap. It just gave ammunition to rationalizing. I wonder if she's being told the same kind of stuff. 

I said the same things, I just liked the attention and the feeling that someone was attracted to me, and I did, but it got way out of control. Do they text at all or talk outside of school?


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## Clay2013

This to me is a huge red flag but since you both openly talked about it I would take it as a learning experience for you. It sounds like shes not getting enough attention from you. Your not making her feel all that attractive. I would step things up with her. Bring her flowers at work. Show her you love her and comment on how great she looks. This is your chance to really bring that spark back. 

Clay


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## samyeagar

John Lee said:


> Well, I had a talk with her and asked her to say something to him. I said that it was clear to me that this guy's intentions were not good, and even though I trusted her, I still didn't want this guy coming around hitting on her. She said ok.
> 
> So later in the night, she suddenly is upset with me. Apparently I haven't taken out some recycling that I hadn't actually realized was recycling, and she's more generally upset with me because I'm not doing enough around the house and staying up too late -- the thing is, she's not entirely wrong, but these aren't exactly new issues and lately *I actually thought I had been pretty good* (e.g. I had just gotten done a home-repair job that she had been asking me to do). So I'm wondering what the hell is going on, and finally she says "No wonder I wind up talking to this guy at work."
> 
> This is the part where I have to credit TAM, because I instantly recognized the rationalization BS that was going on, so I stayed calm and said "Oh, so that's what this is really about." I was firm, I didn't back down, and I didn't let her flip the script so that the problem was shifted to me, but I didn't fly into a rage either. Finally she admitted that she likes getting the attention, that the guy is interesting to talk to, and that she's flattered that someone thinks she's attractive.
> 
> I told her I completely understood why she would like that attention, that everyone does sometimes, but that it was clear to me that this guy had bad intentions and I didn't want him hanging around her anymore. The thing is, I really do understand that it's natural to enjoy that kind of attention, and I don't blame her for it, as long as she's willing to shut it down when it crosses a line. So I'll wait and see if she's actually willing to shut it down.


You need to do more than think it. Your marriage is in danger.


----------



## John Lee

Clay2013 said:


> This to me is a huge red flag but since you both openly talked about it I would take it as a learning experience for you. It sounds like shes not getting enough attention from you. Your not making her feel all that attractive. I would step things up with her. Bring her flowers at work. Show her you love her and comment on how great she looks. This is your chance to really bring that spark back.
> 
> Clay


I think you are right. She said that she "never felt pretty when she was younger" and also that since she had the baby she's been afraid of not being attractive anymore. Of course I told her how attractive she was to me and I'm not going to get into all the gushy stuff I said but I meant all of it. 

My wife is insecure, so I think she's more vulnerable to this kind of thing. But it's also true that I haven't given her enough attention. I never read that "five languages" thing but it definitely seems like she interprets not getting things done around the house as lack of love, whereas I never mean it that way -- I just happened to grow up in a bit of a messy household. I really have made a huge effort since we've been married to improve, but I can still do more.


----------



## John Lee

The other thing is that I've been a little depressed -- not like not getting out of bed depressed, but feeling kind of dim about life. I'm in a job that depresses me but I make good money and we need it right now. I feel like my wife and I both gave up doing things we really love so we can make our family work, and I know it's not good in the long run.


----------



## sh987

John Lee said:


> I think you are right. She said that she "never felt pretty when she was younger" and also that since she had the baby she's been afraid of not being attractive anymore. Of course I told her how attractive she was to me and I'm not going to get into all the gushy stuff I said but I meant all of it.
> 
> My wife is insecure, so I think she's more vulnerable to this kind of thing. But it's also true that I haven't given her enough attention. *I never read that "five languages" thing* but it definitely seems like she interprets not getting things done around the house as lack of love, whereas I never mean it that way -- I just happened to grow up in a bit of a messy household. I really have made a huge effort since we've been married to improve, but I can still do more.


Read it.

You really should read that book and do what you can to give her what she needs.


----------



## weightlifter

Better way to get rid of him.

Gotta go. The other car is broken and I have to take my husband to his Muay Thai class. You know, the teacher cant be late!


----------



## In The Dark

Take an afternoon off of work, go to your wife's work, bring her a surprise and let this guy know that your wife is YOUR wife. It reads like she would rather you take care of this(even if she really knows it or not). If she really wanted it to be a secret, she wouldn't have told you. Take charge, clear this OM out of there and start working on your relationship again. Good luck.


----------



## 6301

John Lee said:


> But he keeps coming around and the reason I started this thread is that he dropped an inappropriate sex reference into the conversation, so it suddenly became clear to me what was going on.
> 
> Unfortunately it's difficult for me to "drop by" -- I work longer hours and kind of far from where she works. So I may have to ask her to be more direct and firm with the guy.


 When he drops a sexual remark to your wife then the line is crossed with him AND HER.

Friend, you might work a long distance from where she works but you damn well better take the time off, go to where you wife works and let this guy know in no uncertain terms that he backs off now and do it in a way that he know you mean business.

Then you tell your wife that her remark to you about not taking out the recycle trash ain't flying with you and if she isn't happy about it then she can find someone else to pick on and it better not happen again. 

IMO, if you don't put a halt to it and now, your begging for trouble and let her know that the remark she made gives you cause to wonder if she's really upset with this guy always coming around. 

Nothing like a dumb remark along with an annoying guy to put a trust issue in a marriage.


----------



## John Lee

Do you think it's better if I show up unannounced? I'm worried she might take that the wrong way. I've never done it before in many years so it would seem obvious why I'm doing it.


----------



## John Lee

6301 said:


> Then you tell your wife that her remark to you about not taking out the recycle trash ain't flying with you and if she isn't happy about it then she can find someone else to pick on and it better not happen again.


The good thing is that I didn't let this fly. It was transparent to me that she was just deflecting the issue I brought up, and I only realized it because of reading TAM threads. I didn't back down, I made it clear that she wasn't going to worm out of dealing with the problem at hand by finding fault with me.


----------



## As'laDain

John Lee said:


> The good thing is that I didn't let this fly. It was transparent to me that she was just deflecting the issue I brought up, and I only realized it because of reading TAM threads. I didn't back down, I made it clear that she wasn't going to worm out of dealing with the problem at hand by finding fault with me.


your wife is giving you a fitness test...

you need to tell the other man to back off and make sure this doesn't go anywhere. i would also look into the 180... it will help you with the mild feelings of depression. since your wife is still engaging you, you dont have to completely disconnect from her, but you DO need to defend your marriage. 

i retract my earlier statement about having her tell her to stop before you get involved. its too late for you to be able to fully trust that option, since she is emotionally engaged. while i still think she should do the right thing and end the flirting, my advice to you is to tell the other man that she has told you all about his flirty ways and that he WILL back off and leave your wife alone.


----------



## John Lee

I don't think she's giving me a fitness test. I think she likes the fact that this guy gives her attention and she was a little disappointed I put my foot down.


----------



## John Lee

Anyway I think you guys are right -- if this guy comes around her again next week I am going to drop by the school.


----------



## Nucking Futs

John Lee said:


> Anyway I think you guys are right -- if this guy comes around her again next week I am going to drop by the school.


Do it up right. Don't bring this up to her again. Plan a date night where you pick her up from school and go someplace fun for a few hours then a nice dinner. Make it an evening she's going to want to tell everyone about the next day, including the interloper.


----------



## manticore

John Lee said:


> Anyway I think you guys are right -- if this guy comes around her again next week I am going to drop by the school.


the question is, how are you going to be sure he was not around the next week?.

If your wife think that you may do something drastic, maybe she may tell you that he is not comming around her anymore, but just to avoid conflict (and partially because maybe she likes the attention and may think that is harmless).

remember if TAM have left us a good teaching is that we always have to had a healthy level of distrust with everybody, that also helps maintain the realtionship alive, many times when someone trust 100% something/someone is also equivalent to take it from granted. And by Reading CWI we know that most problems begin when people begin to feel taken for granted.


----------



## sandc

Show up and mark your territory my friend. Buy some flowers and take them to her... just because. Make sure that it's at a time when you know he will be stopping by. Say something to sports guy like, "I sure love my wife. I'll do ANYTHING for her." Make eye contact so that he understands the veiled threat. Then make a big fuss over her and give her the flowers.

ANYTHING can also mean you approach her boss if she can't or won't shut this guy down. Tell that person what is happening. Let the boss know you'll do anything to protect your wife and your marriage.


----------



## yeah_right

My advice? Be waiting in your wife's classroom after school like this -

Anchorman workout - YouTube

I guarantee her visitor will never return!


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## 6301

sandc said:


> Show up and mark your territory my friend. Buy some flowers and take them to her... just because.


 Wrong. Show up and bring your balls. You don't have to go crazy and threaten the man, just let him know that he's overstepping, you don't like it and for him to move on now.

If your wife says something about it and tries to give you grief, look her in the eye and tell her that "I expect you to conduct yourself like a wife is supposed to do and if you would have, I wouldn't have to be here." Then get on with life. Your wife will now know that her little snide comments and seeking attention from other men ain't gonna fly with you. Ask her how she would feel if you did the same thing and made the same comment.

You now made your point and she now knows that the game is over. Period.


----------



## sandc

Uh... how is showing up with flowers threatening? It's assertive. He's got balls, he's doing something about the situation. No need to be insulting to OP.


----------



## Philat

John Lee said:


> Well, I had a talk with her and asked her to say something to him. I said that it was clear to me that this guy's intentions were not good, and even though I trusted her, I still didn't want this guy coming around hitting on her. She said ok.
> 
> So later in the night, she suddenly is upset with me. Apparently I haven't taken out some recycling that I hadn't actually realized was recycling, and she's more generally upset with me because I'm not doing enough around the house and staying up too late -- the thing is, she's not entirely wrong, but these aren't exactly new issues and lately I actually thought I had been pretty good (e.g. I had just gotten done a home-repair job that she had been asking me to do). So I'm wondering what the hell is going on, and finally she says "No wonder I wind up talking to this guy at work."
> 
> This is the part where I have to credit TAM, because I instantly recognized the rationalization BS that was going on, so I stayed calm and said "Oh, so that's what this is really about." I was firm, I didn't back down, and I didn't let her flip the script so that the problem was shifted to me, but I didn't fly into a rage either. Finally she admitted that she likes getting the attention, that the guy is interesting to talk to, and that she's flattered that someone thinks she's attractive.
> 
> I told her I completely understood why she would like that attention, that everyone does sometimes, but that it was clear to me that this guy had bad intentions and I didn't want him hanging around her anymore. The thing is, I really do understand that it's natural to enjoy that kind of attention, and I don't blame her for it, as long as she's willing to shut it down when it crosses a line. So I'll wait and see if she's actually willing to shut it down.


First she said OK, then you had that little dust-up that makes it pretty clear she wasn't fully OK. Are you still confident that you each understand and agree that she needs to put a stop to this guy's attentions?


----------



## AliceA

John Lee said:


> Anyway I think you guys are right -- if this guy comes around her again next week I am going to drop by the school.


That's great 

She will be disappointed when the guy moves onto his next target, but at the end of the day, a little disappointment now is better than a whole lot of pain later.


----------



## 6301

sandc said:


> Uh... how is showing up with flowers threatening? It's assertive. He's got balls, he's doing something about the situation. No need to be insulting to OP.


 Flowers isn't the answer. There's a guy slowly trying to get to know this guys wife a little better and she's a married woman. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure what's on his mind 

Now after he talks to her for a bit, he drops a sexual remark. When that happened, she should have told the guy that she didn't appreciate the comment and brushed the guy off in a way that he knew that he shouldn't come around any longer. She didn't. Yeah she told her husband but if the comment was uncalled for, she could have said something.

Then she makes the remark "no wonder I wind up talking to this guy at work." Nothing like a slap in the face just because he forgot to take out the trash.

So the answer is still no. You don't buy your wife. She knows she's married and if she wasn't enjoying the man coming around she would have told him to hit the road.

If he wanted to buy her flowers, he could have if she would have told the guy to move on.

You don't reward someone for being wrong.


----------



## Mrinsensitive

I would establish a bad conclusion for the guy who wants to be "friends" with your wife. Professional conversations are one thing that have to take place at work- but no guy or (very few esp. if single) want to be genuine "friends " with women ...especially younger attractive ones..If it were me Id let this guy know as Skynard says "that's my woman there and I'm a man who cares , and this might be all for U"

Nothing wrong with that....what real men do IMO good luck!!


----------



## Tobyboy

John Lee said:


> Finally she admitted that she likes getting the attention, that the guy is interesting to talk to, and that she's flattered that someone thinks she's attractive.


Now that's a red flag in face if I've ever seen one! 

I went back and read some of your previous threads. HOLY SH!T!!! 
Dude!!!! To much drama. This will not end well. Is she in therapy? On meds?

You recently posted about your wife's "sudden sex drive bump"? 
Well, now you know who to thank for that!

Get you both into counseling....pronto!!


----------



## tom67

John Lee said:


> I think you are right. She said that she "never felt pretty when she was younger" and also that since she had the baby she's been afraid of not being attractive anymore. Of course I told her how attractive she was to me and I'm not going to get into all the gushy stuff I said but I meant all of it.
> 
> My wife is insecure, so I think she's more vulnerable to this kind of thing. But it's also true that I haven't given her enough attention. I never read that "five languages" thing but it definitely seems like she interprets not getting things done around the house as lack of love, whereas I never mean it that way -- I just happened to grow up in a bit of a messy household. I really have made a huge effort since we've been married to improve, but I can still do more.


Let's keep it simple.
She craves validation from other men.
Start mate guarding/c0ckbloching surprise her at school.
She could use some ic maybe one session together.
This is a slippery slope imo.

Ask her how she would feel if a woman at your work was chatting you up.
Oh the look on her face would be telling.


----------



## Tobyboy

tom67 said:


> Let's keep it simple.
> She craves validation from other men.
> Start mate guarding/c0ckbloching surprise her at school.
> She could use some ic maybe one session together.
> This is a slippery slope imo.
> 
> Ask her how she would feel if a woman at your work was chatting you up.
> Oh the look on her face would be telling.


Umm. Not a good idea. Go back and read some of JL past threads. You'll see why.


----------



## The Middleman

John Lee said:


> Anyway I think you guys are right -- if this guy comes around her again next week I am going to drop by the school.



That's exactly what you have to do. And don't tell your wife you are doing it, it should be a complete surprise to her ... and him.


----------



## Phenix70

John Lee said:


> *He's actually not a superior, just a guy who runs a sports program at the school.* She actually has already asked her assistant to stick around in the afternoon when the guy comes. So that's a good start I guess. But he keeps coming around and the reason *I started this thread is that he dropped an inappropriate sex reference into the conversation, so it suddenly became clear to me what was going on. *
> 
> Unfortunately it's difficult for me to "drop by" -- I work longer hours and kind of far from where she works. So I may have to ask her to be more direct and firm with the guy.


It's all well & good your wife told you about this guy BUT why isn't she reporting him to the school administration?
This is a classic case of Sexual Harassment, she needs to report him now.
If the administration does not take action to stop his behavior, then she has grounds to pursue this further with legal action.
And if she refuses to go the administration to report his actions, then that will tell you that there truly is more going on then what she has told.


----------



## Starstarfish

> It's all well & good your wife told you about this guy BUT why isn't she reporting him to the school administration?
> This is a classic case of Sexual Harassment, she needs to report him now.
> If the administration does not take action to stop his behavior, then she has grounds to pursue this further with legal action.
> And if she refuses to go the administration to report his actions, then that will tell you that there truly is more going on then what she has told.


I'm sorry, but things aren't that cut and dry. He's an older (and thus likely tenured employee) involved in sports. There is a culture surrounding school sports that makes it more unlikely for such a claim to be taken seriously. (I mean, Paterno anyone?)

And for the next step to be "or she should sue." Again, that sounds like a beautiful idea, but - if she's not tenured and is still under contract or better yet is in an "at will employment" state, good luck being renewed for next year if you start a lawsuit like this. And possibly getting another job afterwards. 
It's far more serious a thing to balance than you make it seem. 

So, if you don't want to start threatening people with lawsuits and complaining to the administration may or may not be a sign that "there is truly more going on." Lots of female employees put up with a lot of crap because they know they risk current and future employment to do anything about it. 

The words coming out of OP's wife's mouth reveal far more about how she actually sues.


----------



## Phenix70

Starstarfish said:


> I'm sorry, but things aren't that cut and dry. He's an older (and thus likely tenured employee) involved in sports. There is a culture surrounding school sports that makes it more unlikely for such a claim to be taken seriously. (I mean, Paterno anyone?)
> 
> And for the next step to be "or she should sue." Again, that sounds like a beautiful idea, but - if she's not tenured and is still under contract or better yet is in an "at will employment" state, good luck being renewed for next year if you start a lawsuit like this. And possibly getting another job afterwards.
> It's far more serious a thing to balance than you make it seem.
> 
> So, if you don't want to start threatening people with lawsuits and complaining to the administration may or may not be a sign that "there is truly more going on." Lots of female employees put up with a lot of crap because they know they risk current and future employment to do anything about it.
> 
> The words coming out of OP's wife's mouth reveal far more about how she actually sues.


What are you talking about & what decade are you living in?
AS a school employee, she more than likely signed a contract, a contract that lists what the Code of Conduct is.
The school is obligated to investigate ANY report of Sexual Harassment, if they do not, THEN the wife can pursue her legal rights, which can include suing OR contacting her union.
How dare you make excuses as to why she shouldn't report his behavior, your attitude is exactly why women or men are hesitant to report being Sexually Harassed and allows victims to continue to be treated as "less than" by their perpetrators.


----------



## Nucking Futs

She's not shooting it down or complaining to her boss about it because she likes it.



John Lee said:


> Well, I had a talk with her and asked her to say something to him. I said that it was clear to me that this guy's intentions were not good, and even though I trusted her, I still didn't want this guy coming around hitting on her. She said ok.
> 
> So later in the night, she suddenly is upset with me. Apparently I haven't taken out some recycling that I hadn't actually realized was recycling, and she's more generally upset with me because I'm not doing enough around the house and staying up too late -- the thing is, she's not entirely wrong, but these aren't exactly new issues and lately I actually thought I had been pretty good (e.g. I had just gotten done a home-repair job that she had been asking me to do). So I'm wondering what the hell is going on, and finally she says "No wonder I wind up talking to this guy at work."
> 
> This is the part where I have to credit TAM, because I instantly recognized the rationalization BS that was going on, so I stayed calm and said "Oh, so that's what this is really about." I was firm, I didn't back down, and I didn't let her flip the script so that the problem was shifted to me, but I didn't fly into a rage either. *Finally she admitted that she likes getting the attention, that the guy is interesting to talk to, and that she's flattered that someone thinks she's attractive.*
> 
> I told her I completely understood why she would like that attention, that everyone does sometimes, but that it was clear to me that this guy had bad intentions and I didn't want him hanging around her anymore. The thing is, I really do understand that it's natural to enjoy that kind of attention, and I don't blame her for it, as long as she's willing to shut it down when it crosses a line. So I'll wait and see if she's actually willing to shut it down.


----------



## Starstarfish

> The school is obligated to investigate ANY report of Sexual Harassment, if they do not, THEN the wife can pursue her legal rights, which can include suing OR contacting her union.


That doesn't change the fact that it's a risk to do so. The fact is the- wife doesn't feel threatened enough, apparently, to want to take that risk. Bringing it to the administration or even into lawsuit territory is being brought up as a way for her to prove her loyalty and assuage the OP's fears about her intentions and feelings. She's said with her own mouth she likes the guy's attention, and is beginning to compare the OP to him in whether or not he "measures up." 



> How dare you make excuses as to why she shouldn't report his behavior, your attitude is exactly why women or men are hesitant to report being Sexually Harassed and allows victims to continue to be treated as "less than" by their perpetrators.


Me stating that reporting it may or may not have the desired effect isn't the issue. That's not "making excuses" it's stating a fact that making a Sexual Harassment claim is a serious thing that can have unwarranted consequences. 

Ultimately, the decision to or not to pursue further action should be her decision. Her husband wasn't the one harassed, and she shouldn't be pursing action to make him (or folks on TAM) feel better. Also, if the issue is that the OP's wife desires outside attention, for whatever reason, suing this particular guy isn't going to change that.


----------



## Phenix70

Starstarfish said:


> That doesn't change the fact that it's a risk to do so. The fact is the- wife doesn't feel threatened enough, apparently, to want to take that risk. Bringing it to the administration or even into lawsuit territory is being brought up as a way for her to prove her loyalty and assuage the OP's fears about her intentions and feelings. She's said with her own mouth she likes the guy's attention, and is beginning to compare the OP to him in whether or not he "measures up."
> 
> 
> 
> Me stating that reporting it may or may not have the desired effect isn't the issue. That's not "making excuses" it's stating a fact that making a Sexual Harassment claim is a serious thing that can have unwarranted consequences.
> 
> Ultimately, the decision to or not to pursue further action should be her decision. Her husband wasn't the one harassed, and she shouldn't be pursing action to make him (or folks on TAM) feel better. Also, if the issue is that the OP's wife desires outside attention, for whatever reason, suing this particular guy isn't going to change that.


First of all, you were the one to bring up suing, I did not, so let's be clear on that.
Second, talking about this situation to her husband isn't going to address the real issue, which is she is being Sexually Harassed. 
In the US, there are laws in place that are there to protect employees from Work Place harassment.
One of the stipulations is in order for a business to proceed in a Sexual Harassment case, is that the victim needs to inform the business of the situation.

You stating "That's not "making excuses" it's stating a fact that making a Sexual Harassment claim is a serious thing that can have unwarranted consequences" *is very much an excuse.*
If people continue to have your attitude, it allows predators to get away with their harassment.
"Oh why bother, it's just too much work" is the worst excuse to not report being victimized.
The worst consequence of NOT reporting is allowing yourself to stay quiet, to keep being a victim because you didn't want to rock the boat.
Your attitude keeps the cycle of harassment going.
The right thing to do is stop the perpetuator cold, to report their actions so that they no longer can harass people in their work place, where everyone has the right to feel safe.


----------



## Starstarfish

Okay, but again, the OP's wife doesn't clearly feel she was sexually harassed and has said to the OP she liked his attention. 

I think that claiming after the fact someone sexually harassed you when at the time you were enjoyed it, openly said you were enjoying it, is a bit wrong. Because you feel guilty afterwards and your husband didn't like it doesn't change what happened. 

Sorry, the OP's wife saying she liked it, and enjoyed it changes the view of her being a helpless victim of sexual harassment who needs to be saved from a perpetrator. I'm out of here though, apparently if you flirt back with someone, enjoy it, but then later feel guilty, this person should be reported and possibly sued. And if you state that starting trouble at work, might indeed, cause problems, I'm encouraging predation.


----------



## Phenix70

Starstarfish said:


> Okay, but again, the OP's wife doesn't clearly feel she was sexually harassed and has said to the OP she liked his attention.
> 
> I think that claiming after the fact someone sexually harassed you when at the time you were enjoyed it, openly said you were enjoying it, is a bit wrong. Because you feel guilty afterwards and your husband didn't like it doesn't change what happened.
> 
> Sorry, the OP's wife saying she liked it, and enjoyed it changes the view of her being a helpless victim of sexual harassment who needs to be saved from a perpetrator. I'm out of here though, apparently if you flirt back with someone, enjoy it, but then later feel guilty, this person should be reported and possibly sued. And if you state that starting trouble at work, might indeed, cause problems, I'm encouraging predation.


It's about context. I take it you have never been a victim of sexual abuse. If you had then you would be aware that often the victim is confused because though the sexual activity MAY have felt good, the acts were wrong. Just as the OP's wife, may have initially been flattered from the attention, with deeper reflection, she knows the attention is 1) unwanted 2) unwarranted. 
If she did not, then she would not have told her H what has happened.

And because you seem to have issues with reading what you want to read in other's posts, I NEVER advocated "starting trouble at work" because to me, standing up for your rights is a human right, one that everyone is afforded by the laws in the US. It speaks volumes that you feel that should one stand up against harassment in the Work Place, somehow you're starting trouble. That's really sad & indicative of why people continue to harass others.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Phenix70 said:


> It's about context. I take it you have never been a victim of sexual abuse. If you had then you would be aware that often the victim is confused because though the sexual activity MAY have felt good, the acts were wrong. Just as the OP's wife, may have initially been flattered from the attention, with deeper reflection, she knows the attention is 1) unwanted 2) unwarranted.
> If she did not, then she would not have told her H what has happened.
> 
> And because you seem to have issues with reading what you want to read in other's posts, I NEVER advocated "starting trouble at work" because to me, standing up for your rights is a human right, one that everyone is afforded by the laws in the US. It speaks volumes that you feel that should one stand up against harassment in the Work Place, somehow you're starting trouble. That's really sad & indicative of why people continue to harass others.


I don't believe she should be complaining to management or contemplating a law suit until she has let him know that his attention is unwanted. At this point we know that the attention is far from unwanted so doesn't constitute sexual harassment.


----------



## Phenix70

Nucking Futs said:


> *I don't believe she should be complaining to management or contemplating a law suit until she has let him know that his attention is unwanted.* At this point we know that the attention is far from unwanted so doesn't constitute sexual harassment.


Very good point, but it depends on the the Code of Conduct rules at her school. Some organizations do not require that the harassed has to put the harasser on notice, as it can & often does create a hostile environment. What the harassed is required to do is report the harassment, as the organization often is not aware of the harassment unless notified. If at that time, the organization does nothing to stop the harassment, then the harassed can & should escalate the situation. This could be notifying a union, or even going far as filing a lawsuit against the organization. 

And as I already said, the OP's wife could very well be conflicted regarding the attention from her co-worker.


----------



## Nucking Futs

Phenix70 said:


> Very good point, but it depends on the the Code of Conduct rules at her school. Some organizations do not require that the harassed has to put the harasser on notice, as it can & often does create a hostile environment. What the harassed is required to do is report the harassment, as the organization often is not aware of the harassment unless notified. If at that time, the organization does nothing to stop the harassment, then the harassed can & should escalate the situation. This could be notifying a union, or even going far as filing a lawsuit against the organization.
> 
> And as I already said, the OP's wife could very well be conflicted regarding the attention from her co-worker.


Sexual harassment is in the mind of the victim. If neither party feels there was sexual harassment then there was no sexual harassment, that's why the part you didn't bold said "At this point we know that the attention is far from unwanted so doesn't constitute sexual harassment."

At the bottom is the definition of sexual harassment from the US EEOC. If you read it you'll see the use of the word "unwanted." This is not unwanted so does not constitute harassment.



> Sexual Harassment It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex. Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.
> Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general.
> Both victim and the harasser can be either a woman or a man, and the victim and harasser can be the same sex.
> Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).
> The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.
> 
> 
> Sexual Harassment


----------



## Starstarfish

> It's about context. I take it you have never been a victim of sexual abuse. If you had then you would be aware that often the victim is confused because though the sexual activity MAY have felt good, the acts were wrong. Just as the OP's wife, may have initially been flattered from the attention, with deeper reflection, she knows the attention is 1) unwanted 2) unwarranted. If she did not, then she would not have told her H what has happened.


That's actually a really big assumption. And actually, yes, I have been though not at work by a co-worker. 



> If she did not, then she would not have told her H what has happened.


Or she told her H to rile him up to see what he was going to do about it. We have no idea about her motivation, but from what was described by OP, I don't see someone confused. She mentioned how other women at work are jealous, how much she loves the attention, and begin to nit-pick at him because of how he measures up against Mr. Wrong. I'm sorry, but that doesn't speak confused victim of abuse. I'm usually the first to speak in a woman's defense, but - she's rationalizing her behavior as "you don't do X" therefore I flirt with him.


----------



## AliceA

The Middleman said:


> That's exactly what you have to do. And don't tell your wife you are doing it, it should be a complete surprise to her ... and him.


I just wanted to add that I disagree that it should have to be a surprise for her. I think it'd be great for her to look forward to his visit all day and they show a united front to the guy, not a 'suspicious husband shows up to catch her out' sort of thing. One shows that they make plans together, the other, depending on her reaction, might show the guy they are on shaky ground. I like a sure thing personally.


----------



## Nucking Futs

breeze said:


> I just wanted to add that I disagree that it should have to be a surprise for her. I think it'd be great for her to look forward to his visit all day and they show a united front to the guy, not a 'suspicious husband shows up to catch her out' sort of thing. One shows that they make plans together, the other, depending on her reaction, might show the guy they are on shaky ground. I like a sure thing personally.


That depends on what kind of surprise it is. I agree that showing up to put a scare into the interloper without letting her know may backfire on him, but showing up unexpectedly to taker her out for a surprise date night is a horse of another color. And if a message is sent to both the wife and the interloper by the surprise date night so much the better.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> That depends on what kind of surprise it is. I agree that showing up to put a scare into the interloper without letting her know may backfire on him, but showing up unexpectedly to taker her out for a surprise date night is a horse of another color. And if a message is sent to both the wife and the interloper by the surprise date night so much the better.


YES!
:iagree::iagree:


----------



## AlphaHalf

I don't think there is a need to tip toe around the situation. The moment you show up to her job she will know the real reason why your there. IMHO its best to be direct and firm when it comes to meeting him. He knows what he is trying to do with your wife (your wife knows and allows it) So why avoid the elephant in the room. 

Tell his old a$$ to back off. A man especially of his age knows better. He'll play it off by acting innocent and surprised about the accusation. But let him know your not buying his Bull$h!t. Tell your wife that if she needs and likes validation/flirting from other men so much then she can seek it after a divorce. ( serious Bluff but a good test to see if she will defend her actions or respect your boundaries) Respect, Consideration, Loyalty and BOUNDARIES are paramount in a successful marriage.

Also this is your WAKE UP CALL to treat your wife better then what you've been doing.


----------



## AliceA

Nucking Futs said:


> That depends on what kind of surprise it is. I agree that showing up to put a scare into the interloper without letting her know may backfire on him, but showing up unexpectedly to taker her out for a surprise date night is a horse of another color. And if a message is sent to both the wife and the interloper by the surprise date night so much the better.


Yep, if none of this was happening and he wasn't here posting about this other dude, hadn't already told his wife he doesn't like what's going on etc, this would be a horse of another colour. The surprise date night would be a winner, though any date night would be a winner, whether the surprise is that morning, or that afternoon.

Problem is, it's not. Making it a surprise now MAY cause her to think her DH doubts her and is trying to catch her out. If it doesn't, that's great, if it does, what a crap start to their night.

Therefore, I stick by what I said. A sure thing is better than taking chances with her reaction on the very slight benefit of a surprise date night being better than a planned date night. If a surprise even IS a preference for her anyway.


----------



## Nucking Futs

breeze said:


> Yep, if none of this was happening and he wasn't here posting about this other dude, hadn't already told his wife he doesn't like what's going on etc, this would be a horse of another colour. The surprise date night would be a winner, though any date night would be a winner, whether the surprise is that morning, or that afternoon.
> 
> Problem is, it's not. *Making it a surprise now MAY cause her to think her DH doubts her and is trying to catch her out.* If it doesn't, that's great, if it does, what a crap start to their night.
> 
> Therefore, I stick by what I said. A sure thing is better than taking chances with her reaction on the very slight benefit of a surprise date night being better than a planned date night. If a surprise even IS a preference for her anyway.


I see your point and I agree it's a possibility. I'm going to stand by my advice though, the op can choose which advice is more appropriate to his situation.


----------



## The Middleman

breeze said:


> I just wanted to add that I disagree that it should have to be a surprise for her. I think it'd be great for her to look forward to his visit all day and they show a united front to the guy, not a 'suspicious husband shows up to catch her out' sort of thing. One shows that they make plans together, the other, depending on her reaction, might show the guy they are on shaky ground. I like a sure thing personally.


My only concern is that if she likes the attention, as she admitted, she may see to it that John Lee doesn't see the guy. Can we be sure that this is really a "united front" based on his last postings? I think not. AlphaHalf has hit the nail on the head.



AlphaHalf said:


> I don't think there is a need to tip toe around the situation. The moment you show up to her job she will know the real reason why your there. IMHO its best to be direct and firm when it comes to meeting him. He knows what he is trying to do with your wife (your wife knows and allows it) So why avoid the elephant in the room.


----------



## AliceA

Well, that degenerated quickly.


----------



## Thundarr

John Lee said:


> So my wife has told me about this guy at work who has been seeking her attention a lot -- she's a teacher, and he's an older guy who runs an after school program, and every day in the time before my wife leaves he comes and hangs around her classroom and chats her up. It's pretty obvious to her and to me that he is hitting on her. She's been upfront with me about it all along and I don't have any reason to think she's doing more than being polite in return. But I still don't like the situation. He is apparently considerably older than her, like 20-30 years older, but good looking for his age (the older women in the school are actually starting to get jealous that this guy likes my wife).
> 
> So should I advise her to do something about it other than be polite but cool? Should I do something about it? He hasn't exactly harassed her or anything, but he's obviously into her.


John, she can shut him down. Either she does it or you do it.


----------



## Chaparral

The old dude is neither a superior or even a coworker. He is invoved in an after school sports program. From my experience he is just a volunteer coach. He's hanging around because he smells fresh meat.

I've never heard of a schools coach that isn't also a teacher. This is probably a program for kids too young for the school team and saves the school money by being run or helped by volunteers. He may also be a volunteer assistant for the school team.

Your wife has changed her tune about the whole episode to one she has actually enjoyed. Depending on her to do anything but shut up about it now is foolish. The ball is in your court now. Your work is a distant second to this problem. At least it has shown you the cracks in your relationship.

This may not work for you but I would show up, introduce my self and joke to him about him being the old dude that's bugging my wife. Just make sure he knows it really ain't no joke.


----------



## SolidSnake

I agree with Nucking Futs that this is not sexual harassment because the OPs wife has stated that she likes the attention. Just to be clear here, I would never try to throw the book at a man for sexual harassment unless I had already shut him down hard verbally and he still wasn't getting it, or he touched my butt or something extreme like that. No need to get the "authorities" involved unless you have already been very firm and forthright and he hasn't stopped. But its not relevant to the discussion anymore.

What is relevant is that the OPs wife does seem to be fond of the attention from other men. Get to the bottom of this situation OP. If she has low self esteem, maybe IC for her once you both deal with the immediate threat to your marriage. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

SolidSnake said:


> I agree with Nucking Futs that this is not sexual harassment because the OPs wife has stated that she likes the attention. Just to be clear here, I would never try to throw the book at a man for sexual harassment unless I had already shut him down hard verbally and he still wasn't getting it, or he touched my butt or something extreme like that. No need to get the "authorities" involved unless you have already been very firm and forthright and he hasn't stopped. But its not relevant to the discussion anymore.
> 
> *What is relevant is that the OPs wife does seem to be fond of the attention from other men. Get to the bottom of this situation OP. If she has low self esteem, maybe IC for her once you both deal with the immediate threat to your marriage. *
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:This is what's most important now. You need to shut down the flirting but you also need to address your wife enjoying it.


----------



## Chaparral

do you have access to her phone bill?


----------



## John Lee

Chaparral said:


> do you have access to her phone bill?


Sure, and her e-mail, and her phone, and her facebook, etc. She's not having an affair with the after school sports guy, I'm about 99.99% sure of that. She's just flattered that someone is interested in her.


----------



## naiveonedave

my concern is that this is how affairs start. No boundaries.


----------



## F-102

The fact that you're in the loop on this is good, as she feels that she has her H in her corner and that you won't "just let this go". She's flattered by the attention? No woman WOULDN'T be flattered. But if you weren't in the loop, her thinking, as alluded to by naiveonedave, could start going like:

"We're just friends"
"It's not like were kissing or having sex"
"What would it hurt if I talked to him more?"
"What would it hurt if we had lunch together?"
"What would it hurt if we met for coffee?"
"What would it hurt if we met for drinks?"
"What would it hurt if we hugged?"
"What would it hurt if we kissed?"
"What would it hurt if my H doesn't find out?"


----------



## naiveonedave

From F102's post, I tink she is already at the lunch/coffee stage. Hope not, but seems to be there. If it gets to drinks, your M is in big trouble.


----------



## Irishsoul

John Lee said:


> Sure, and her e-mail, and her phone, and her facebook, etc. She's not having an affair with the after school sports guy, I'm about 99.99% sure of that. She's just flattered that someone is interested in her.


Yes. New here, but I agree. When I read the first post, it was great that she told you, but ideally she should be able to handle it herself. Not all people are good with confrontation, a lot of women (and men ) are this way, to the point to where SHE might say she does not want YOU to do anything. But she definitely wants it handled.

I tell you though, part of her wants to see how you would react to this, what you would do, how you will handle it. If you could manage the time, I would just stop by there one day when you knew he would be "dropping by" unannounced (this would set the tone for everyone)...Friendly confrontation. If he stops by again, invite him in, even if he tries to leave. Say "hey, I didn't catch your name"..."oh yea, Roger, my wife has told me *a lot* about you". Smile and make good eye contact. "yea, thought I'd stop by, was just in the area. Thought we could grab some dinner"...give her a wink....you know, just make him feel really awkward.....you know the old saying, keep you friends close, keep you enemies closer. Just make your presence felt and the feeling you could "pop in at anytime"....maybe then dismiss him "well yea, great Roger, good to meet you, take care now." Maybe take your wife out to dinner when she's through with her work. Cool, calm collected.

2 birds with one stone. Give her attention, *claim your territory*. lol...sounds rough and primitive I know, but sometimes women want to know how much they mean to you, if you are crazy about them or not. Just thinking out loud here. My 2 sheckles.



*Edit:.....you know, I just went back and read more of the posts. That is pretty messed up about her telling you she liked it, kind of passive aggressive. Of course she liked it. We all enjoyed attention from the opposite sex. Doesn't mean we seek it out. Doesn't mean that we allow it or invite it. This is all starting to sound like a sign that she is seeking attention, your attention. She feels somewhat guilty/maybe even resentful, that's why she told you, but beyond that I am not a shrink so not sure what to do. Definitely just the tip of the iceberg there.*


----------



## Irishsoul

breeze said:


> That's great
> 
> She will be disappointed when the guy moves onto his next target, but at the end of the day, a little disappointment now is better than a whole lot of pain later.


Yea, but how will you know he's really moved on??? That she has set him straight?


----------



## Irishsoul

Mrinsensitive said:


> I would establish a bad conclusion for the guy who wants to be "friends" with your wife. Professional conversations are one thing that have to take place at work- but no guy or (very few esp. if single) want to be genuine "friends " with women ...especially younger attractive ones..If it were me Id let this guy know as Skynard says "that's my woman there and I'm a man who cares , and this might be all for U"
> 
> Nothing wrong with that....what real men do IMO good luck!!


Here's a man who knows what he's talking about. Impossible for men and women to be "just friends".


----------



## AliceA

Irishsoul said:


> Yea, but how will you know he's really moved on??? That she has set him straight?


That's assuming she follows through and shuts the guy down as her husband requested. She definitely has the power to do it, but yeah, who knows if she actually will.


----------



## weightlifter

Players probe and probe and probe and probe...

Remember most of them work multiple women at the same time.


----------



## John Lee

Just so you guys on the edge of your seats know, she's home on vacation this week (with our toddler) so there's nothing to report on. Not abandoning the thread.


----------



## Chaparral

Ask your wife if he works for the school system or is a volunteer.


----------



## Tobyboy

John Lee said:


> Just so you guys on the edge of your seats know, she's home on vacation this week (with our toddler) so there's nothing to report on. Not abandoning the thread.


Just so you know, if she starts up sh!t with you over minor stuff, then know it's because of her missing that high(external validation) she was getting from her "friend".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

Any update?


----------



## weightlifter

Nucking Futs said:


> Any update?


Hoping something along the lines of: "talking to my wife? Interesting. You are a talker eh? Maybe you would like to have a talk with my cousin Tony. He is... In the cement contracting business."


----------



## John Lee

Apparently her assistant told the guy to stop bothering her before she could even say anything. Nonetheless, I have a day off coming up and will be visiting her class toward the end of the day. She knows I'm coming and encouraged it.


----------



## Chaparral

Stay alert. Don't let yourself be blind sided.

Is this a little too convenient?


----------



## John Lee

Chaparral said:


> Stay alert. Don't let yourself be blind sided.
> 
> Is this a little too convenient?


It might seem a little too convenient if I had any other reason to suspect anything. No evidence in her phone or e-mails, no unaccounted for time, she's been open with me about the thing the whole time, etc. I just don't have that "gut feeling" about it.


----------



## AliceA

There's not always fire where there is smoke. Sometimes someone is just having a durry.


----------



## John Lee

Ok so I visited -- I had a day off and I brought our toddler to visit her class, which she has wanted me to do. It was planned, but I was originally going to leave before the end of the day and instead I stuck around -- one good thing is that she did not mind this and even encouraged it. Sure enough, after school ended, the guy showed up to "get his stuff from the supply closet" like he apparently always does, exactly as my wife as described. 
The bad news is that he's a pretty big and in shape guy and pretty good looking for his age, and I got a player vibe from him. I'm not a very imposing guy so I couldn't exactly physically intimidate him, but I wasn't intimidated by him either, and luckily he tried to make conversation relating to my work that gave me an opening to show some alpha status in that area (hard to explain without getting into specifics but it was a good moment and I even got an approving look from my wife). At least I showed up, showed confidence, and showed the guy that I care about protecting my family.

I didn't see any evidence that my wife is being dishonest with me, but at the same time I could see that this is clearly not the kind of guy I trust around my wife, as I suspected. So I am going to have to keep an eye on the situation.


----------



## sh987

You don't have to rip off your shirt and get into a Mr. Olympia pose-down with him. He can see that you tend to what is yours, and that (to me) is what counts.


----------



## tom67

John Lee said:


> Ok so I visited -- I had a day off and I brought our toddler to visit her class, which she has wanted me to do. It was planned, but I was originally going to leave before the end of the day and instead I stuck around -- one good thing is that she did not mind this and even encouraged it. Sure enough, after school ended, the guy showed up to "get his stuff from the supply closet" like he apparently always does, exactly as my wife as described.
> The bad news is that he's a pretty big and in shape guy and pretty good looking for his age, and I got a player vibe from him. I'm not a very imposing guy so I couldn't exactly physically intimidate him, but I wasn't intimidated by him either, and luckily he tried to make conversation relating to my work that gave me an opening to show some alpha status in that area (hard to explain without getting into specifics but it was a good moment and I even got an approving look from my wife). At least I showed up, showed confidence, and showed the guy that I care about protecting my family.
> 
> I didn't see any evidence that my wife is being dishonest with me, but at the same time I could see that this is clearly not the kind of guy I trust around my wife, as I suspected. So I am going to have to keep an eye on the situation.


Smart trust your gut feeling.
Well done.


----------



## John Lee

I really appreciate you folks' help on this one. I don't think I would have made a point of visiting if not for this thread. Good advice.


----------



## sandc

Don't be intimidated by him one bit. He won't lay a finger on you if he values his cushy job.


----------



## As'laDain

you would be surprised at what people can be intimidated by. 

i only weigh 126 pounds and i have had guys twice my size tell me im intimidating. from what they tell me, i get a look in my eye whenever i argue or become impassioned about anything that says i will never back down. 
my mother has received the same kind of remarks throughout her life, so i probably learned it from her. 

considering the fact that i can feel like im literally shaking in my boots and yet i come off as intimidating... 

i wouldnt be surprised if mr macho isnt, in fact, intimidated by you.


----------



## Chaparral

As'laDain said:


> you would be surprised at what people can be intimidated by.
> 
> i only weigh 126 pounds and i have had guys twice my size tell me im intimidating. from what they tell me, i get a look in my eye whenever i argue or become impassioned about anything that says i will never back down.
> my mother has received the same kind of remarks throughout her life, so i probably learned it from her.
> 
> considering the fact that i can feel like im literally shaking in my boots and yet i come off as intimidating...
> 
> i wouldnt be surprised if mr macho isnt, in fact, intimidated by you.


Mr player isn't going to be intimidated. He just sees this as more challenging. If he has the ego he might even be thinking he has a better shot.

If a player has targeted your wife, he will have many angles. He will keep trying unless your wife shuts him down.

Talk to her about how players work and insist she tell you everything he says.

This is dangerous territory. I hope your wife isn't overwhelmed by his attention.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you found out if he is a full time, paid coach or a volunteer?


----------



## John Lee

As'laDain said:


> you would be surprised at what people can be intimidated by.
> 
> i only weigh 126 pounds and i have had guys twice my size tell me im intimidating. from what they tell me, i get a look in my eye whenever i argue or become impassioned about anything that says i will never back down.
> my mother has received the same kind of remarks throughout her life, so i probably learned it from her.
> 
> considering the fact that i can feel like im literally shaking in my boots and yet i come off as intimidating...
> 
> i wouldnt be surprised if mr macho isnt, in fact, intimidated by you.


It's funny you say this, because people have said similar things about me before. One friend in college described me as a "force" after I blew up at someone who pissed me off. I have an intensity to me at times.


----------



## John Lee

Chaparral said:


> Have you found out if he is a full time, paid coach or a volunteer?


He seems to be some kind of part-time person, I think employed by the district not the school. Apparently he used to be kind of successful but now he's a bit of a bum, lives with family and does this part-time after school gig.


----------



## tom67

Chaparral said:


> Mr player isn't going to be intimidated. He just sees this as more challenging. If he has the ego he might even be thinking he has a better shot.
> 
> If a player has targeted your wife, he will have many angles. He will keep trying unless your wife shuts him down.
> 
> Talk to her about how players work and insist she tell you everything he says.
> 
> This is dangerous territory. I hope your wife isn't overwhelmed by his attention.


I;m sure your wife is getting an ego boost with two guys "fighting" for her so to speak, but she is the one who has to shut this down once and for all.
No good can come of this and it's disrespectful to you imo.


----------



## weightlifter

Do what Chap said. KEEP your eyes open. The problem with players is the probe and probe and probe.

We have had BS whose wives resisted for up to NINE MONTHS, then one day she is feeling sad, or neglected or.... 

Radar up not necessarily spying but look for changes, ANY changes and get back here PRONTO for ANYTHING that you get even a slight negative vibe about.


----------



## lonelyhusband321

JL

I didn't read all the way through the thread, but let me tell you this very short one.

There was a guy that worked with my wife - many years ago - who fits this exactly. Good looking, well spoken, and knows it.

He kept on coming on stronger and stronger, and finally she ASKED me to do something.

She and I had waited so long that by the time she had to mention it to me, what she told me made me blow! I kept from just going after him and doing something irrational, but only by a little bit.

He and I had an exceedingly terse, VERY one-sided conversation, but avoided anything physical, and that was the end. He never ever came around like a thief looking for an easy mark again.

My point being - handle it BEFORE it gets to the point that mine did. Before it gets ugly...


----------



## lonelyhusband321

lonelyhusband321 said:


> JL
> 
> I didn't read all the way through the thread, but let me tell you this very short one.
> 
> There was a guy that worked with my wife - many years ago - who fits this exactly. Good looking, well spoken, and knows it.
> 
> He kept on coming on stronger and stronger, and finally she ASKED me to do something.
> 
> She and I had waited so long that by the time she had to mention it to me, what she tole me made me blow! I kept from just going after him and doing something irrational, but only by a little bit.
> 
> He and I had an exceedingly terse, VERY one-sided conversation, but avoided anything physical, and that was the end. He never ever came around like a thief looking for an easy mark again.
> 
> My point being - handle it BEFORE it gets to the point that mine did. Before it gets ugly...


OR just beat the crap out of him.....

Not the best option, but it will work...


----------



## John Lee

Chaparral said:


> Mr player isn't going to be intimidated. He just sees this as more challenging. If he has the ego he might even be thinking he has a better shot.
> 
> If a player has targeted your wife, he will have many angles. He will keep trying unless your wife shuts him down.
> 
> Talk to her about how players work and insist she tell you everything he says.
> 
> This is dangerous territory. I hope your wife isn't overwhelmed by his attention.


That's my concern too. That's why I'm not dropping this -- he might be the type who gets off on the competition/challenge.


----------



## sandc

I am 5'3" tall and my boss's boss is 6'8". He has a loud voice and likes to intimidate people. I talk just as loud back at him and stand my ground. I'm the only one he's intimidated by and he no longer talks to me. He sends all messages to me through my boss where with the other guys he'll just walk up and yell at them. Size is never the determining factor when it comes to intimidation.


----------



## Nucking Futs

sandc said:


> I am 5'3" tall and my boss's boss is 6'8". He has a loud voice and likes to intimidate people. I talk just as loud back at him and stand my ground. I'm the only one he's intimidated by and he no longer talks to me. He sends all messages to me through my boss where with the other guys he'll just walk up and yell at them. Size is never the determining factor when it comes to intimidation.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain


----------



## lonelyhusband321

Nucking Futs said:


> "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Mark Twain


Absotively, posilutely!!


----------



## weightlifter

Stay on this JL. You can be one of our rare "wins!"

Trust me your wife noticed your interest in her.


----------



## AliceA

I agree that it's now down to your wife to be honest. She needs to sort it out. The only thing stopping her is that she doesn't want to.

I think you did I good thing by showing her she's important to you, now she needs to show you that you are important to her. Good luck. 

Edited to add: I know people think it requires her to be braver than she can be etc, but that's not it at all. All she really needs to do is leave, every time, or disengage. It's only difficult when you don't want to. I bet if he was not attractive to her in the slightest, she could do it without issue. No excuses, it can be done, no confrontation required.


----------



## John Lee

Does it seem better if I just let the subject drop for a while now, or is it better if I follow up -- "So did ___ come around again today?" It feels like there's a fine line between caring and acting insecure.


----------



## tom67

John Lee said:


> Does it seem better if I just let the subject drop for a while now, or is it better if I follow up -- "So did ___ come around again today?" It feels like there's a fine line between caring and acting insecure.


John you are right silence on the issue until it warrants a discussion with her. Stay vigilant but you are right you will look weak and insecure over time.
Ugh I hope the best for you.


----------



## AliceA

John Lee said:


> Does it seem better if I just let the subject drop for a while now, or is it better if I follow up -- "So did ___ come around again today?" It feels like there's a fine line between caring and acting insecure.


Tough call. I think you need to tell her if you expect her to end their little tête-à-tête every day, to have it out in the open that it's going over what you consider to be a boundary. People can't choose to stick to boundaries if they don't know what they are. Then, if you feel you need to know if she follows up, ask. This is just coming from my own perspective obviously, but if I know something is important enough to DH for him to keep bringing it up, it becomes important to me to find a resolution.


----------



## Chaparral

John Lee said:


> Does it seem better if I just let the subject drop for a while now, or is it better if I follow up -- "So did ___ come around again today?" It feels like there's a fine line between caring and acting insecure.


You need to stay on top of this. But not with a question like that. That kind of question can lead to a lie. Instead ask her a question that implies you know they are still talking. Such as what did the old man have to say today? Does the old dude ask you about any of he other women teachers? Why do you think he picked you out in particular to talk to? Does he think you're easy?

Don't do it too soon or she may hide things but sooner or later you may have to tell her I would hate to have to go over there and make him leave my wife alone.

You might also imply you may make a complaint to the principle.

Have you googled him, is he married?

Lol you should have asked him if its true he lives in his moms basement. Sounds like he may have been dumped.


----------



## Chaparral

What sport does he coach? For example,.basketball season is almost over for highschool around here.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

John Lee said:


> It's funny you say this, because people have said similar things about me before. One friend in college described me as a "force" after I blew up at someone who pissed me off. I have an intensity to me at times.


John:

You seem like a good guy so am going to not be too judgemental on how you should handle this. If my wife was acting this way, exact same scenario ( BTW my wife is also a teacher).......I.e. enjoying the attention of a good looking guy at her school......I wouldn't be pissed off at the guy, I'd be pissed at my wife. At my calmest demeanor...not saying I could stay calm but assuming I could....I would tell her how disappointed I was that she doesn't love me or respect me enough to stop flirting with this guy. 
So if you were enjoying the attention of a good looking woman at work, how would your wife react?


----------



## syhoybenden

John Lee said:


> Does it seem better if I just let the subject drop for a while now, or is it better if I follow up -- "So did ___ come around again today?" It feels like there's a fine line between caring and acting insecure.


Stay discreet but stay alert.

Maybe you could start up a practice of random but not too frequent pop-ins at quitting time with tokens of affection and/or surprise plans for dinner/movie/whatever for your lady. Not only makes your presence known but also makes her know you appreciate her.

Hopefully not too heavy handed.


----------



## John Lee

So, I didn't want to say more about this until there was some kind of progress made. 

A couple weeks ago my wife sort of tried to handle the situation, but not exactly in the way I would have liked. She told him something like "look, I'm not going to sleep with you, I'm married and I love my husband." I didn't really like this because it seemed like it implied maybe she would otherwise. Of course he got all defensive and said he never meant anything like that. 

But a couple days later I found out from my wife that the guy had said things to her like "affairs don't destroy marriages" and that he "used to tell married women he would do things their husbands wouldn't do." I told her I wasn't ok with this guy talking to her anymore. I told her that a guy like this is going to keep trying to insinuate things -- that he'd drop sex into the conversation, that he might even try to say subtly bad things about me, etc. She said she didn't want to make a big scene, so I suggested she just give him the cold shoulder for a couple days and maybe he'd get the hint. 

She gave him the cold shoulder for a couple days, and he didn't get the hint. So she came home yesterday and told me she had asked him not to talk to her anymore. But she was a little unhappy about it. She said "I wish you would just trust me, I'm not going to sleep with this guy. I feel like you're not treating me like an adult." 

So I said "Oh, so if there was a woman at work who came by my office every day to 'chat' and kept saying things like 'I do things wives won't do' and 'affairs don't destroy marriages' you would be ok with that? You wouldn't care if I was 'friends' with a woman who was trying to sleep with me, because you trust me?" She admitted that she would have a problem with it. I hope she saw the light.

She says she is so bored at work and barely gets to talk to any grown-ups all day, and at least this guy is interesting to talk to. Obviously this was not a good enough reason for me to be ok with her hanging out with a guy who is trying to sleep with her, but I also realized that there are larger problems we have to address -- my wife is really bored and unhappy with her life. I know I need to do more to show my love for her, make sure we have more nights out, more fun on weekends, etc. And I also need to step up my game, get into better shape, get my drive up, etc. I'm already working on it.


----------



## DoF

There is no such a thing as male/female friendships.

It's ok to be "friendly and nice" with people of opposite sex at work but as soon as you noticed more than that, hit the nail on the head.

Your wife doesn't have to be so direct either. She can just be cold and make him feel uncomfortable around her.

Come up with ideas. Maybe "I'm busy right now, sorry I can't talk"

Reach a nice middle ground where the ahole gets the hint without being too brutal.

Don't get upset at your wife OP. She is being honest and communicating with you. Thank her!!!! This is a great sign of loyalty towards you (encourage it by rewarding vs getting upset). 

But I understand your frustrations.


----------



## soccermom2three

Yay for your wife for handling it!

I can't believe that even after she told him she wasn't going to sleep with him, he was still trying. She was pretty blunt.


----------



## tom67

soccermom2three said:


> Yay for your wife for handling it!
> 
> I can't believe that even after she told him she wasn't going to sleep with him, he was still trying. She was pretty blunt.


Sounds like he is going to keep pursuing.
Well if she doesn't like her job maybe it's time to get some resumes out there.
It is good the way she handled it but this doosh is a predator and may have to be reported.:scratchhead:


----------



## DoF

soccermom2three said:


> Yay for your wife for handling it!
> 
> I can't believe that even after she told him she wasn't going to sleep with him, he was still trying. She was pretty blunt.


When you give someone a challenge, many will work THAT much harder to prove you wrong.

This is normal IMO, seen it a lot.

Some label it as "People love to chase things that they cannot have".


----------



## sandc

John Lee said:


> So, I didn't want to say more about this until there was some kind of progress made.
> 
> A couple weeks ago my wife sort of tried to handle the situation, but not exactly in the way I would have liked. She told him something like "look, I'm not going to sleep with you, I'm married and I love my husband." I didn't really like this because it seemed like it implied maybe she would otherwise. Of course he got all defensive and said he never meant anything like that.
> 
> But a couple days later I found out from my wife that the guy had said things to her like "affairs don't destroy marriages" and that he "used to tell married women he would do things their husbands wouldn't do." I told her I wasn't ok with this guy talking to her anymore. I told her that a guy like this is going to keep trying to insinuate things -- that he'd drop sex into the conversation, that he might even try to say subtly bad things about me, etc. She said she didn't want to make a big scene, so I suggested she just give him the cold shoulder for a couple days and maybe he'd get the hint.
> 
> She gave him the cold shoulder for a couple days, and he didn't get the hint. So she came home yesterday and told me she had asked him not to talk to her anymore. But she was a little unhappy about it. She said "I wish you would just trust me, I'm not going to sleep with this guy. I feel like you're not treating me like an adult."
> 
> So I said "Oh, so if there was a woman at work who came by my office every day to 'chat' and kept saying things like 'I do things wives won't do' and 'affairs don't destroy marriages' you would be ok with that? You wouldn't care if I was 'friends' with a woman who was trying to sleep with me, because you trust me?" She admitted that she would have a problem with it. I hope she saw the light.
> 
> She says she is so bored at work and barely gets to talk to any grown-ups all day, and at least this guy is interesting to talk to. Obviously this was not a good enough reason for me to be ok with her hanging out with a guy who is trying to sleep with her, but I also realized that there are larger problems we have to address -- *my wife is really bored and unhappy* with her life. I know I need to do more to show my love for her, make sure we have more nights out, more fun on weekends, etc. And I also need to step up my game, get into better shape, get my drive up, etc. I'm already working on it.



I'm glad you realize this. Now is a great time to turn that around for her. Finding ways to date my wife was what led me to this site in the first place! Take her out, have fun, talk to her EVERY. DAY. Not small talk. Deep conversations that require thinking and listening. She needs this. She loves you and doesn't want to have an affair but if you let things continue, she may yet have one.

Now that she's told the guy she doesn't want to talk to him any more, if he comes back, it's time to go to school administration and have them talk to him. He will not give up with her just asking him to. He senses her weakness and indecision regarding him.


----------



## DoF

sandc said:


> I'm glad you realize this. Now is a great time to turn that around for her. Finding ways to date my wife was what led me to this site in the first place! Take her out, have fun, talk to her EVERY. DAY. Not small talk. Deep conversations that require thinking and listening. She needs this. She loves you and doesn't want to have an affair but if you let things continue, she may yet have one.


If she is that kind of a person, John Lee probably doesn't even want her.

Decent people end things/communicate their worries/problems vs going off sleeping with another man.

2 mistakes in one. Not addressing the problem and making the problem bigger for themselves by cheating with someone else.

Completely asinine all around.

I do agree with rest of what you said though. All great points.



sandc said:


> Now that she's told the guy she doesn't want to talk to him any more, if he comes back, it's time to go to school administration and have them talk to him. He will not give up with her just asking him to. He senses her weakness and indecision regarding him.


Agreed as well


----------



## John Lee

DoF said:


> There is no such a thing as male/female friendships.
> 
> It's ok to be "friendly and nice" with people of opposite sex at work but as soon as you noticed more than that, hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Your wife doesn't have to be so direct either. She can just be cold and make him feel uncomfortable around her.
> 
> Come up with ideas. Maybe "I'm busy right now, sorry I can't talk"
> 
> Reach a nice middle ground where the ahole gets the hint without being too brutal.
> 
> Don't get upset at your wife OP. She is being honest and communicating with you. Thank her!!!! This is a great sign of loyalty towards you (encourage it by rewarding vs getting upset).
> 
> But I understand your frustrations.


You are right, and by the way, I did thank her very sincerely and told her I loved her and gave her a big kiss after we talked, and I told her that I understood how she felt and why she would like talking to this guy, and that it's not that I don't "trust her," it's just that I think maintaining any friendly relationship with that guy can start to interfere with our marriage if she doesn't let go of it. 

Honestly I think she was a little bit attracted to this guy. I can't blame her for that, I'm attracted to women at work all the time, I just don't have long personal talks with them. Maybe that doesn't mean she was going to sleep with him, but maybe he keeps coming around, and the attraction grows, and then one day we have a really bad fight at home and she's really upset, and then there's this guy at work there to talk to her and comfort her, etc. etc. I understand how these things develop. They can start out totally "innocent." 

Anyway, I hope this puts an end to it and I wanted to thank all you guys, you were really helpful and supportive! I honestly think I wouldn't have recognized this problem so early or known how to deal with it if not for TAM.


----------



## Chaparral

A persons boredom is on their own shoulders to a point.

I would go to the school and ask him if telling your wife how good he was has ever gotten him hurt.


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, it doesn't have anything to do with you not trusting her, its all about what he is doing is disrespecting you, inulting you and disrespecting your wife.


----------



## justtryin

John -

I went through the whole thread and a couple things stood out to me. But before I get to that, I want to applaud you on how you've handled this. When your wife started getting into defensive/argumentative mode and you shut it down by having her visualize the shoe being on the other foot - nice. You led her away from the destructive thought process she was heading towards, and to a more constructive realization - without losing your cool and adding to the storm - which you've been doing the whole time. Also, your relationship is on the whole pretty healthy, considering that she has been open and upfront with you about this the whole time. Thankfully you are aware enough to be catching this before it turned south.

BUT - it is a cry out that your marriage needs attention, which you appear to realize. So here is my two cents, for what it's worth...

You aren't fully meeting her needs. Yes that's obvious and you realize this but it's worth saying it in black and white. My advice is to get back to basics. Nothing difficult, it just requires you put in the time and a little thought. Start "dating" her again. Treat her like the special woman that she is. Seduce her. Not with sex in mind per se, but with ROMANCE. Flirt with her more often. Take her out to dinner at a nice place and tell her dress up, you want to show her off. Open the car door for her. Give her your undivided attention, as if she is the only woman in the place. But keep your confident, sly, charming air about you...you're not a puppy dog vying for her attention, you are a suave man seducing a hot woman. Leave her a random love note in her car or in her purse or something once in a while, reminding her why she is so special and loved. Bring her a random little gift that you know she likes once in a while (her favorite candy bar, or flower, etc.) when you get home, act nonchalant and no big deal about it. Point is you were thinking about her, you know her, you went out of your way for a little thing just for her, Etc. You get where I'm going with this stuff. 

Second thing - you need more passion in your life...for BOTH of you. Again you recognize this. You need to find something the two of you can do together that is fun and exciting. Take some dance classes, or cooking classes, or go explore some local parks and bike & hike, etc. whatever the two of you may be interested in even remotely and can do together, get creative and don't take "I don't know" for an answer. Just do it. Take charge, take the lead. Get outside your comfort zone if necessary - just make sure you have a cavalier, fun, confident attitude throughout it all. It's about reconnecting with each other and doing something different and exciting and worth talking about that you share together. The more enthusiasm you show, the more she'll feed on that, even if she doesn't show it. And for you personally, rekindle some old hobby or interest so that YOU have some passion and excitement without her too. She needs to know that you draw your positive energy on your own, and she can be part of that, rather than you looking to HER exclusively for your positive energy. Not saying you do this, but just a reminder. Find YOUR passion and express that enthusiasm with her. 

I think if you focus on those two areas, which are very simple and obviously you are totally capable of doing, over several weeks/months you will see big changes in her. Understand and fully meet her needs (mostly which are simply validating her, affirming her, listening to her, appreciating her, valuing her, making her feel special...do those things and I bet she'll start to care less whether your doing a bunch of housework or not...although pitching in to help her when you can tell she's stressed sometimes doesn't hurt) and finding some fun and exciting things to do together.

Basically just putting a priority on your relationship, putting a little more effort into the right places is all it takes. She's telling you she needs this loud and clear...she's just saying it in that womanly way 

Hope that helps. I think you've already figured that out though but just wanted to back you up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## soccermom2three

She's a school teacher right? Can she follow up with the principal? Your wife can tell her, "Hey I had to tell sports guy to stop bothering me. It was getting inappropriate." She doesn't have to be specific. Maybe the principal can meet with the guy and just reiterate what your wife told him.


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## larry.gray

Or she can be specific. "I can do things husbands don't do" and "Affairs don't ruin marriages" is straight up sexual harassment. If she tells him she wanted him to stop and he continued, then even more so.

Even if nothing happens this time, it will be remembered. If another woman comes forward with a similar complaint, then he's toast.


----------



## AliceA

I'm a bit of a home body, so what I like is probably different to what your wife would like, but when bored in my marriage I would like it if DH any of the following things:

* Organise a short holiday away together
* Make me dinner and grab a new movie that is out for us to watch
* Take me out for dinner to an intimate little restaurant
* Take me out to see a band or something, or an open mic night at a café
* Grab a bottle of wine, put on some music and pull out the chess board

Just some ideas. Hope you enjoy reconnecting with your wifey.


----------



## weightlifter

JL.

Its a game to him and your wife is the prize. The problem is you have to win all the time. He needs only win once.

We have seen it many times here. Rdmu, rtbp, others whose names i forget. He will probe and probe and probe until one day after a fight with you... I am not talking days i am talking years. You are simply lucky you got it now not at a later stage.

Btw JL has already indicated this player is a big guy.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

OP, I am not positive about your wife. I think you handled things as good as you could, well done job.

But it is very uncomfortable to me that she bluntly told him "Listen, I am not going to sleep with you" WTF?!

Who is that intimate with a person that you tell them (being friend-colleaques) that all is OK, but that you are not going to sleep with him!

This bugs me, and then, the normal TAM suspicion creeps in. 

This is what she told you.

*I would treat this as an EA*, they are way to close, he wants in her pants, she knows it, she mentioned the 'sleeping with eachother, (be it in negative sense)!

In other cases, if there was an EA, it is advised to have her go NC, and get another job. You are now just that close to such a situation, that to prevent your marriage and her job you have to go on full alert. Forbid her to talk to this guy!


edit: She basically told him he is so attractive to her that she would sleep with him in other circumstances!


----------



## lovelygirl

6301 said:


> Flowers isn't the answer. There's a guy slowly trying to get to know this guys wife a little better and she's a married woman. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure what's on his mind
> 
> Now after he talks to her for a bit, he drops a sexual remark. When that happened, she should have told the guy that she didn't appreciate the comment and brushed the guy off in a way that he knew that he shouldn't come around any longer. She didn't. Yeah she told her husband but if the comment was uncalled for, she could have said something.
> 
> Then she makes the remark "no wonder I wind up talking to this guy at work." Nothing like a slap in the face just because he forgot to take out the trash.
> 
> So the answer is still no. You don't buy your wife. She knows she's married and if she wasn't enjoying the man coming around she would have told him to hit the road.
> 
> If he wanted to buy her flowers, he could have if she would have told the guy to move on.
> 
> You don't reward someone for being wrong.


The best post of the thread!


----------



## lovelygirl

See_Listen_Love said:


> OP, I am not positive about your wife. I think you handled things as good as you could, well done job.
> 
> But it is very uncomfortable to me that she bluntly told him "*Listen, I am not going to sleep with you*" WTF?!
> 
> Who is that intimate with a person that you tell them (being friend-colleaques) that all is OK, but that you are not going to sleep with him!
> 
> This bugs me, and then, the normal TAM suspicion creeps in.
> 
> This is what she told you.
> 
> *I would treat this as an EA*, they are way to close, he wants in her pants, she knows it, she mentioned the 'sleeping with eachother, (be it in negative sense)!
> 
> In other cases, if there was an EA, it is advised to have her go NC, and get another job. You are now just that close to such a situation, that to prevent your marriage and her job you have to go on full alert. Forbid her to talk to this guy!
> 
> 
> edit: She basically told him he is so attractive to her that she would sleep with him in other circumstances!


Yeah, I agree. She shouldn't have said that line unless he explicitly told her "I want to sleep with you.." 
As if she was eagerly waiting for him to ask that but then she decided to go first.
So immature of her!

Yeah, I do agree she experienced the beginning phases of an EA. 
Funny how OP thinks it's a bit OK given that he experiences almost the same thing.

I don't see strong boundaries here.


----------



## John Lee

Well, we had kind of a blow-up about this in the last couple days. She came home Friday (the day after she supposedly said he should stop talking to her) and said something about how "I really don't think this guy's intentions are bad, I think he's just lonely, he's just my friend." I got pretty mad, and I told her she was either naive or she must think I'm stupid. We had another fight about it today where we really had it out, and she used a lot of the classic "you're paranoid" and "you're being controlling" kind of language. I didn't back down. I said how dare she suggest that a guy who tried to insinuate an affair with her is her "friend." I was so ****ing pissed off. I told her that even if nothing is happening now, this guy is just going to keep looking for an opportunity unless she shuts him down, and that if she considers him a "friend" then she is being disloyal to me. 

The strange thing is that all this really brought out the territorial caveman in me, and after we cooled off from our fight she actually said it was a good thing. I don't think my wife is having an affair but I think she is deceiving herself -- she like the attention from this guy and is probably attracted to him, and she is telling herself "no big deal, we just chat a bit before I leave school," but I know too well how these things can turn into more. 

This might sound crazy, but I have an enemy now and it has me fired up like I haven't felt in a long time. I'm working out harder, and we even have had better sex the last couple times. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. But I'm not letting this problem out of my sight.


----------



## John Lee

The thing is we have both had pretty good boundaries for a good amount of time now. Both of us have had one EA, hers ending maybe 5-6 years ago and mine ending 4 years ago. I felt like we both learned our lesson from it. We talked a lot about how same-sex friendships just don't work unless there's no possibility of attraction. So I was kind of surprised that this started. This is the only other time in our entire relationship (together more than 12 years) that I have gotten riled up about her relationship with another guy so I really don't see how I'm "controlling" (I pointed this out to her). I know my EA started because I let my guard down thinking "she's not my type at all, she's not even that hot, she's just an interesting person to talk to." I think she's doing the same thing, "this guy is older, he's just a guy I see at school, he's just a lonely guy who likes to talk," -- same kind of denial. Like I said I don't think an affair is there yet but the denial is there and that's a bad sign. I'm not going to be able to rest easy about this.


----------



## tom67

John Lee said:


> Well, we had kind of a blow-up about this in the last couple days. She came home Friday (the day after she supposedly said he should stop talking to her) and said something about how "I really don't think this guy's intentions are bad, I think he's just lonely, he's just my friend." I got pretty mad, and I told her she was either naive or she must think I'm stupid. We had another fight about it today where we really had it out, and she used a lot of the classic "you're paranoid" and "you're being controlling" kind of language. I didn't back down. I said how dare she suggest that a guy who tried to insinuate an affair with her is her "friend." I was so ****ing pissed off. I told her that even if nothing is happening now, this guy is just going to keep looking for an opportunity unless she shuts him down, and that if she considers him a "friend" then she is being disloyal to me.
> 
> The strange thing is that all this really brought out the territorial caveman in me, and after we cooled off from our fight she actually said it was a good thing. I don't think my wife is having an affair but I think she is deceiving herself -- she like the attention from this guy and is probably attracted to him, and she is telling herself "no big deal, we just chat a bit before I leave school," but I know too well how these things can turn into more.
> 
> This might sound crazy, but I have an enemy now and it has me fired up like I haven't felt in a long time. I'm working out harder, and we even have had better sex the last couple times. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. But I'm not letting this problem out of my sight.


It was a sh!t test and you passed it.
The bad thing is she keeps this going on.
You may have to draw a line in the sand after this one you may want to have her look for another job pronto or realize you may have to be a prison warden the rest of your m.

If she saw women hitting on you it may help.


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## John Lee

When things cooled down we said that if he keeps making innuendos she can report him to his boss. I think it would be silly for a teacher to look for another job because of some guy who just runs an afterschool sports program. His ass should look for another job. I will resort to making that happen myself if I have to.


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## tom67

John Lee said:


> When things cooled down we said that if he keeps making innuendos she can report him to his boss. I think it would be silly for a teacher to look for another job because of some guy who just runs an afterschool sports program. His ass should look for another job. I will resort to making that happen myself if I have to.


:iagree:
Something has to happen soon I see nothing good coming of this.

If you have to go to the school so be it.


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## TBT

John Lee said:


> "I really don't think this guy's intentions are bad, I think he's just lonely, he's just my friend


Don't know if it's been recommended to you or not,but in Not 'Just Friends' by Shirley Glass she talks about the slippery slope. Lot of affairs start out with this mindset.


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## soccermom2three

John Lee said:


> When things cooled down we said that if he keeps making innuendos she can report him to his boss. I think it would be silly for a teacher to look for another job because of some guy who just runs an afterschool sports program. His ass should look for another job. I will resort to making that happen myself if I have to.


This is why I said she should say something to the principal.

I agree that it's ridiculous for her to change her job. If the guys job is like how our district works, he's not an employee. He contracts with the school district to provide the after school sports. If he gets complaints against him, the school district will just cancel or not renew his contract.


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## See_Listen_Love

John Lee said:


> Well, we had kind of a blow-up about this in the last couple days. She came home Friday (the day after she supposedly said he should stop talking to her) and said something about how "I really don't think this guy's intentions are bad, I think he's just lonely, he's just my friend." I got pretty mad, and I told her she was either naive or she must think I'm stupid. We had another fight about it today where we really had it out, and she used a lot of the classic "you're paranoid" and "you're being controlling" kind of language. I didn't back down. I said how dare she suggest that a guy who tried to insinuate an affair with her is her "friend." I was so ****ing pissed off. I told her that even if nothing is happening now, this guy is just going to keep looking for an opportunity unless she shuts him down, and that if she considers him a "friend" then she is being disloyal to me.
> 
> The strange thing is that all this really brought out the territorial caveman in me, and after we cooled off from our fight she actually said it was a good thing. I don't think my wife is having an affair but I think she is deceiving herself -- she like the attention from this guy and is probably attracted to him, and she is telling herself "no big deal, we just chat a bit before I leave school," but I know too well how these things can turn into more.
> 
> This might sound crazy, but I have an enemy now and it has me fired up like I haven't felt in a long time. I'm working out harder, and we even have had better sex the last couple times. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. But I'm not letting this problem out of my sight.


:allhail:

I love you man! Hope for mankind, for the suckers who do not pay attention to the right things, at the right time. 

Doing the right things, regardless of what the outcome may be, is the path to go. I hope myself to be learning to do that.


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## syhoybenden

John Lee said:


> Well, we had kind of a blow-up about this in the last couple days. She came home Friday (the day after she supposedly said he should stop talking to her) and said something about how "I really don't think this guy's intentions are bad, I think he's just lonely, he's just my friend." I got pretty mad, and I told her she was either naive or she must think I'm stupid. We had another fight about it today where we really had it out, and she used a lot of the classic "you're paranoid" and "you're being controlling" kind of language. I didn't back down. I said how dare she suggest that a guy who tried to insinuate an affair with her is her "friend." I was so ****ing pissed off. I told her that even if nothing is happening now, this guy is just going to keep looking for an opportunity unless she shuts him down, and that if she considers him a "friend" then she is being disloyal to me.
> 
> The strange thing is that all this really brought out the territorial caveman in me, and after we cooled off from our fight she actually said it was a good thing. I don't think my wife is having an affair but I think she is deceiving herself -- she like the attention from this guy and is probably attracted to him, and she is telling herself "no big deal, we just chat a bit before I leave school," but I know too well how these things can turn into more.
> 
> This might sound crazy, but I have an enemy now and it has me fired up like I haven't felt in a long time. I'm working out harder, and we even have had better sex the last couple times. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. But I'm not letting this problem out of my sight.


Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but I still think you should be doing random pop-ins at her work at day's end with maybe a single rose and surprise dinner plans. This let's you know you love her, marks your territory, and most important of all let's you know if a.ss.hat is still coming around and you're being kept in the dark.


----------



## F-102

Sorry bro, but I now get the feeling that there is more, much MUCH more to this, than she is letting on.

That allusion to prior EAs? She may have learned her lesson: "As long as I don't keep it a secret like the last time, he can't say I'm sneaking around behind his back!" In short: Unlike last time, this time YOU WERE WARNED.

Part of me thinks that she likes the idea of 2 guys fighting over her.


----------



## lovelygirl

John Lee said:


> Well, we had kind of a blow-up about this in the last couple days. She came home Friday (the day after she supposedly said he should stop talking to her) and said something about how "I really don't think this guy's intentions are bad, I think he's just lonely, he's just my friend." I got pretty mad, and I told her she was either naive or she must think I'm stupid. We had another fight about it today where we really had it out, and she used a lot of the classic* "you're paranoid" and "you're being controlling"* kind of language. I didn't back down. I said how dare she suggest that a guy who tried to insinuate an affair with her is *her "friend."* I was so ****ing pissed off. I told her that even if nothing is happening now, this guy is just going to keep looking for an opportunity unless she shuts him down, and that if she considers him a "friend" then she is being disloyal to me.
> 
> The strange thing is that all this really brought out the territorial caveman in me, and after we cooled off from our fight she actually said it was a good thing. I don't think my wife is having an affair but I think she is deceiving herself -- she like the attention from this guy and is probably attracted to him, and she is telling herself "no big deal, we just chat a bit before I leave school," but I know too well how these things can turn into more.
> 
> This might sound crazy, but I have an enemy now and it has me fired up like I haven't felt in a long time. I'm working out harder, and we even have had better sex the last couple times. Maybe it's a blessing in disguise. But I'm not letting this problem out of my sight.


If you've been here long enough you do realize that this kind of language is typically for those who don't want to have the stability of their affair ruined, whether it's EA or PA.

She's more concerned about approaching him and telling him to leave her alone than about that fact that she's causing you hurt. So, her feelings about him are more important to her than your feelings regarding this matter.
She's placing an inappropriate amount of value on him that she'll slowly find herself in an EA. 
I'm afraid you'll go through the same phase you went several years ago with her affair. 
She's being disrespectful towards you and the marriage.


----------



## tom67

lovelygirl said:


> If you've been here long enough you do realize that this kind of language is typically for those who doesn't want to have the stability of their affair ruined, whether it's EA or PA.
> 
> She's more concerned about approaching him and telling him to leave her alone than about that fact that she's causing you hurt. So, her feelings about him are more important to her than your feelings regarding this matter.
> She's placing an inappropriate amount of value on him that she'll slowly find herself in an EA.
> I'm afraid you'll go through the same phase you went several years ago with her affair.
> She's being disrespectful towards you and the marriage.


Sadly I have to agree with this.


----------



## lovelygirl

syhoybenden said:


> Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but I still think you should be doing random pop-ins at her work at day's end with maybe a single rose and surprise dinner plans. This let's you know you love her, marks your territory, and most important of all let's you know if a.ss.hat is still coming around and you're being kept in the dark.


Sorry, but I'd be totally against roses and dinner THIS TIME.
He's had ENOUGH! 
Sending her roses will make him look like a puppy trying to get her attention!
If I were her, I'd call this a beta action. He sends her roses and how she rewards him? By going deeper into this EA?? 

No, no time for roses YET, unless she drops the other guy. She doesn't deserve it yet!


----------



## tom67

lovelygirl said:


> Sorry, but I'd be totally against roses and dinner THIS TIME.
> He's had ENOUGH!
> Sending her roses will make him look like a puppy trying to get her attention!
> If I were her, I'd call this a beta action. He sends her roses and how she rewards him? By going deeper into this EA??
> 
> No, no time for roses YET, unless she drops the other guy. She doesn't deserve it yet!


I think it's time for John to not discuss this for the time being be cool and confident fake it if you have to and sort of do your own thing.
I know you have a little kid but do something fr yourself one night a week.
Be a man of mystery.
She will wonder wtf is he doing?


----------



## syhoybenden

lovelygirl said:


> Sorry, but I'd be totally against roses and dinner THIS TIME.
> He's had ENOUGH!
> Sending her roses will make him look like a puppy trying to get her attention!
> If I were her, I'd call this a beta action. He sends her roses and how she rewards him? By going deeper into this EA??
> 
> No, no time for roses YET, unless she drops the other guy. She doesn't deserve it yet!


Not sending .... taking in his hand with him on a surprise pop-in.

She knows he can turn up at any time and one day will find a.ss.hat there, if he's still hanging around.

If she starts seeing him in other venues, well now that's a huge escalation.


----------



## lovelygirl

syhoybenden said:


> Not sending .... taking in his hand with him on a surprise pop-in.
> 
> She knows he can turn up at any time and one day will find a.ss.hat there, if he's still hanging around.
> 
> If she starts seeing him in other venues, well now that's a huge escalation.


Whether sending or taking roses with him, that's almost the same. A BETA action. 
"You flirt with the other guy and I send you roses" - That's how I'd see it if I were her. 
A turn off!


----------



## tom67

lovelygirl said:


> Whether sending or taking roses with him, that's almost the same. A BETA action.
> "You flirt with the other guy and I send you roses" - That's how I'd see it if I were her.
> A turn off!


She is getting off male validation from another man and her not nipping this shows no respect for her husband.
He should play it cool but observe for now.
If it wasn't this guy will it be someone else?
I suspect yes to that.


----------



## syhoybenden

lovelygirl said:


> Whether sending or taking roses with him, that's almost the same. A BETA action.
> "You flirt with the other guy and I send you roses" - That's how I'd see it if I were her.
> A turn off!


My suggestion leaves him giving her the benefit of the doubt.

Your way is him giving her a slap in the face and thus provoking ill will where there may or MAY NOT have been any there before.

Don't poison the well just yet.


----------



## tom67

syhoybenden said:


> My suggestion leaves him giving her the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> Your way is him giving her a slap in the face and thus provoking ill will where there may or MAY NOT have been any there before.
> 
> Don't poison the well just yet.


The only thing that concerns me is this has gone on since before his first post on 2/13.
This is two months plus of this crap.


----------



## JCD

Your problem is with her, not him.

I can't see a winning scenario for you.

If you get aggressive, you'll be accused of controlling.

If you give her tons of attention, you'll seem weak

If you talk to the school board, you might as well marry your right hand.

So I would do the 180. 

You told her the problem you had, how it affected you and she told you to drop dead. She likes him flirting and your feelings are in second place.

I would say this:

"I told you the problem. You tell me my feelings are no big deal even as you told me that you would have a big problem if another woman did this to me. So his attentions are far more important than our current relationship as it stands now."

"This isn't the first time you've had an emotional affair. You didn't seem to learn anything from the first time. This is how it starts...and you are fine with that. So I have to adjust to these new realities of our relationship."


----------



## John Lee

JCD said:


> Your problem is with her, not him.
> 
> I can't see a winning scenario for you.
> 
> If you get aggressive, you'll be accused of controlling.
> 
> If you give her tons of attention, you'll seem weak
> 
> If you talk to the school board, you might as well marry your right hand.
> 
> So I would do the 180.
> 
> You told her the problem you had, how it affected you and she told you to drop dead. She likes him flirting and your feelings are in second place.
> 
> I would say this:
> 
> "I told you the problem. You tell me my feelings are no big deal even as you told me that you would have a big problem if another woman did this to me. So his attentions are far more important than our current relationship as it stands now."
> 
> "This isn't the first time you've had an emotional affair. You didn't seem to learn anything from the first time. This is how it starts...and you are fine with that. So I have to adjust to these new realities of our relationship."


Hmm. I think you are wise. I feel the same way -- I've made my point now. Continued arguments are not going to get me anywhere, and if I push too hard I can just wind up making her feel "trapped" and "controlled." Going soft and sweet is not going to get me anywhere. Getting the guy fired can just lead to resentment (if I do it without her on board). I need to keep paying attention. Maybe she'll come around, but if she doesn't I just have to say "I've already made my feelings clear. You can decide for yourself what's more important to you."


----------



## JCD

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## tom67

John Lee said:


> Hmm. I think you are wise. I feel the same way -- I've made my point now. Continued arguments are not going to get me anywhere, and if I push too hard I can just wind up making her feel "trapped" and "controlled." Going soft and sweet is not going to get me anywhere. Getting the guy fired can just lead to resentment (if I do it without her on board). I need to keep paying attention. Maybe she'll come around, but if she doesn't I just have to say "I've already made my feelings clear. You can decide for yourself what's more important to you."


Bottom line...
You can't control her I know you know that

you can however control what you will put up with.
So only you know when you have had enough.


----------



## Chaparral

If I remember correctly this guy is divorced and lives in his moms basement. I would stop by the school, ask him if that where he takes the married women he's banging. I would make it plain that I woul d not tolerate him talking to my wife and that doing so would be very dangerous for him.

But hey, that's just me.


----------



## F-102

I, for one, would begin to consider whether or not I'd want to be married to her any longer. You have made your views on this situation very clear. She has had chance after chance to end this little problem, but she has squandered them.


----------



## tom67

F-102 said:


> I, for one, would begin to consider whether or not I'd want to be married to her any longer. You have made your views on this situation very clear. She has had chance after chance to end this little problem, but she has squandered them.


:iagree:
Find divorce papers from your state, print them out, and leave them somewhere so she will see them.
May be time for some shock and awe.

You will be competing the rest of this marriage with other men who compliment her or just give her the time of day.


----------



## John Lee

Easy there guys, I don't think this thing has reached that stage yet.


----------



## Nucking Futs

John Lee said:


> Easy there guys, I don't think this thing has reached that stage yet.


I agree, particularly with the yet part. It's not there yet but it's clearly heading in that direction. I wouldn't start hinting about divorce yet but I would start thinking about what ducks will need alignment if it gets to that point.


----------



## tom67

Nucking Futs said:


> I agree, particularly with the yet part. It's not there yet but it's clearly heading in that direction. I wouldn't start hinting about divorce yet but I would start thinking about what ducks will need alignment if it gets to that point.


:iagree:
Yet can be 2 weeks a month ect.
I truly hope she comes out of this "spell" and appreciates her husband again.
Prepare for the "yet" though.


----------



## JCD

Chaparral said:


> If I remember correctly this guy is divorced and lives in his moms basement. I would stop by the school, ask him if that where he takes the married women he's banging. I would make it plain that I woul d not tolerate him talking to my wife and that doing so would be very dangerous for him.
> 
> But hey, that's just me.


If he is going to go that route, I would take my wife and stop by his mother's house to pay a visit.

"So...you son tell my wife here that extramarital sex can spice up a relationship and that he can do things for my wife that I can't possibly do. So...I was wondering...is that some special skill set you taught your son? I'm sure you must BEAM with joy that he is well known for hitting on every married woman at the school. Is adultery endemic in your family?"

He is bringing it into your home. Why not bring it to his?

This is tongue in cheek, but I assure you that the crisis point would be reached one way or another.


----------



## JCD

John Lee said:


> Easy there guys, I don't think this thing has reached that stage yet.


Probably so.

It is also beyond the 'wine and song' stage of fixing things.

She needs to know that her choices seem to be selfish and are patently unacceptable.


----------



## F-102

Perhaps she thinks: "Well, we both had EAs before, and everything worked out fine. Besides, this is just 'harmless' flirting. We can do it again."


----------



## The Middleman

The time has come to blow this up. If this were my wife, I would send a letter to the school complaining about his behavior to the administrators. You can always say that your wife didn't want to make a big deal out of it but you feel she is being sexually harnessed and he is crossing a line. They would be required to investigate the matter and the messages would be sent to both him and your wife. Yes, your wife would be pissed for a while, but she'll get over it. I think you have a lot of risk here.


----------



## JCD

F-102 said:


> Perhaps she thinks: "Well, we both had EAs before, and everything worked out fine. Besides, this is just 'harmless' flirting. We can do it again."


I have been where she has been. It is an awful experience even from the WS side. 

If she thinks that, she is an idiot and he needs to get rid of her.


----------



## weightlifter

Disagree. Not divorce papers stage.
YET.
I hope not.
I loathe guys who fish for attached females.


----------



## SailBadTheSinner

My now ex was spending more and more time at church choir. Went from once a week to twice a week and then master chorale and all with the same director. Got to be four times a week. 

Got suspicious. Director was tall good looking and made all his MILFs feel special and then he'd bed them. 

So, I put some calves liver in a Baggie, stopped by his church office, pulled out the bloody mess and put it on his desk in front of him. Told him I'd just killed a deer and had it hung gutted at the house. Told him I do the same to him if I found out he was messing with my wife.

Shortly after, her interest in singing wained. 

But then I'm am old guy. Before there were SEALS, we UDTs were the bad azz boys.

So, if you want to keep your woman, show her.


----------



## SailBadTheSinner

BTW she's an ex because the last kid headed off to college. The dog died. The cat ran off. And she could work on perfecting me with laser like focus.


----------



## Philat

John Lee -- What's your current situation? There was another thread recently involving an overly friendly co-worker that made me think of you.


----------



## John Lee

Haha, too funny that this just got bumped. He had stopped bothering her for a while, and then all of a sudden yesterday she tells me that he lingered again. Grr.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

John Lee said:


> Haha, too funny that this just got bumped. He had stopped bothering her for a while, and then all of a sudden yesterday she tells me that he lingered again. Grr.


Punch his face in!!!:smthumbup:


----------



## soccermom2three

She's a teacher, right? School's almost out so he won't be around?


----------



## John Lee

Yeah, I was thinking about saying something like this: "I'm tired of hearing about this guy. If he crosses one more line with you, says one more single inappropriate word to you, I expect you to kick him out of your room and tell him not to come back. And if you can't do that, then I'm going to come talk to him myself." It is the end of the year, but maybe he's just going to be more motivated to try to make his move because of that. Nothing would surprise me now.


----------



## Philat

Is he back with the casual sexual remarks again? Your W needs now more than ever to tell him to back off for good.


----------



## John Lee

I don't think he made any inappropriate "remarks" this time, he just lingered and talked for a bit. But I won't be surprised if/when it happens again.


----------



## Chaparral

The problem with this is if you ask her to get tough with the guy and she's uncomfortable with that, she is likely to just avoid telling you what's going on. It is way past time for you to start c*ckblocking. Do what you have to do. Confront him and hen go confront the principal. Make no outright threats, just make sure the principal knows trouble is brewing.

I don't recall, was he told to quit coming around? Who told him?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

John Lee said:


> Yeah, I was thinking about saying something like this: "I'm tired of hearing about this guy. If he crosses one more line with you, says one more single inappropriate word to you, I expect you to kick him out of your room and tell him not to come back. And if you can't do that, then I'm going to come talk to him myself." It is the end of the year, but maybe he's just going to be more motivated to try to make his move because of that. Nothing would surprise me now.


I think that would be an excellent thing to say to her....


----------



## naiveonedave

I think she is asking John Lee to c*ck block for her. And he isn't doing it.....


----------



## Philat

naiveonedave said:


> I think she is asking John Lee to c*ck block for her. And he isn't doing it.....


This could be. John Lee, you and your W may be at a stalemate of sorts here testing each other. 

From your standpoint, the test for your W is to engender trust by independently and visibly setting and enforcing her boundaries. Meaning she shoots down Mr. Fishing Man.

For her, the test for you is to mate-guard (as you did once before by showing your face at the workplace, if I recall). Meaning you get in Mr. Fishing Man's face.

Does this make sense?


----------



## DoF

Where the hell is HR in this. Your wife should've went to principle or School HR right when it happened....before even telling you!!!!

This is something that both HER and school need to deal with.


----------



## tom67

Philat said:


> This could be. John Lee, you and your W may be at a stalemate of sorts here testing each other.
> 
> From your standpoint, the test for your W is to engender trust by independently and visibly setting and enforcing her boundaries. Meaning she shoots down Mr. Fishing Man.
> 
> For her, the test for you is to mate-guard (as you did once before by showing your face at the workplace, if I recall). Meaning you get in Mr. Fishing Man's face.
> 
> Does this make sense?


So this is the sh!t test so to speak.


----------



## naiveonedave

Tom67 - or just help me with a problem that I can't solve on my own. It could be that she doesn't want HR involved and mr fishing is ignoring her requests to stop or she is incapable of stifling the attention he gives her.

I truly think that one reason why affairs seem to be more rampant is the inability to mate guard the internet.


----------



## tom67

naiveonedave said:


> Tom67 - or just help me with a problem that I can't solve on my own. It could be that she doesn't want HR involved and mr fishing is ignoring her requests to stop or she is incapable of stifling the attention he gives her.
> 
> I truly think that one reason why affairs seem to be more rampant is the inability to mate guard the internet.


He should step in in this case.:iagree:


----------



## DoF

Philat said:


> This could be. John Lee, you and your W may be at a stalemate of sorts here testing each other.
> 
> From your standpoint, the test for your W is to engender trust by independently and visibly setting and enforcing her boundaries. Meaning she shoots down Mr. Fishing Man.
> 
> For her, the test for you is to mate-guard (as you did once before by showing your face at the workplace, if I recall). Meaning you get in Mr. Fishing Man's face.
> 
> Does this make sense?


I would highly suggest against this. And if that's his wife's test than she is just stupid.....

Nothing good will come of it and risk is high of them getting into a fight and his wife losing her job.

This is something that his wife AND SCHOOL needs to deal with and address.


----------



## naiveonedave

Disagree DOF. It doesn't have to be a physical confrontation. He basically needs to show up and tell Mr fish to leave his wife alone or else. and leave the else vague. He could go to HR or any of a myriad of things. Not mate guarding in this situtation makes him appear WEAK. Esp if the wife is asking for help.


----------



## John Lee

Yeah me trying to kick this guy's ass is not really going to produce the best result here. But I agree that showing up and telling him off is a good idea.


----------



## DoF

naiveonedave said:


> Disagree DOF. It doesn't have to be a physical confrontation. He basically needs to show up and tell Mr fish to leave his wife alone or else. and leave the else vague. He could go to HR or any of a myriad of things. Not mate guarding in this situtation makes him appear WEAK. Esp if the wife is asking for help.


Or else WHAT?

This is NOT middleschool or highschool.

What if the guy start fighting him? 

What if this drives him to do it even more

Is OP prepared to risk jail time or courtroom visit? 

The entire "not mate guarding" is very high school like. Sure I used to beat up guys that wouldn't lay off my wife....but that was just childish and stupid. 

Adult way of dealing with this is for his wife to report to school and raise it up the ladder. if it doesn't stop they WILL get rid of him as harassment is something that is NOT taken lightly in today's society.

Trust me, I would be THE FIRST to stand up for my wife and give the guy a can of ass whopping!!! I've done it when I was young and both my wife and I think it was completely stupid.

Your wife also needs to be straight up NASTY to him and put on some mean face. I have a feeling she might be too good natured to do so and it sends him wrong signals.


----------



## DoF

John Lee said:


> Yeah me trying to kick this guy's ass is not really going to produce the best result here. But I agree that showing up and telling him off is a good idea.


I don't think it is....and it CAN put you in a bad situation.

Just the fact that you are showing up at your wife's work and having a confrontation can get HER fired.

Has she reported this to HR/School principle? 

Follow the steps that have been in place at schools FOR DECADES. Trust me, they have dealt with similar things over the years.

DO NOT GO THERE


----------



## naiveonedave

He doesn't necessarily have to confront at school, either. He could be the one to talk to HR, not the wife. She wants him to take action and in this case, I really think he should.

She isn't respecting his boundaries very well, so appearing weak by forcing her to do the dirty work makes him appear weak.


----------



## Chaparral

Evidently rules seem to be unenforced. Teachers and nurses are pretty much in a dead heat leading the professions that cheat the most.

I would show up at the right time to see if he was there talking to his wife. There may be more to this than she has let on. She may have even said something as damage control. In any event, there is no reason a husband can't interfere with an obvious player on the make. The marriage is more important than the job in any case.


----------



## DoF

naiveonedave said:


> He doesn't necessarily have to confront at school, either. He could be the one to talk to HR, not the wife. She wants him to take action and in this case, I really think he should.
> 
> She isn't respecting his boundaries very well, so appearing weak by forcing her to do the dirty work makes him appear weak.


Sorry, but I don't agree.

He shouldn't be doing wife's work. She needs to tell him to back off and simply ignore him. If that doesn't work > HR

It really shouldn't go much further than that. And if it does the guy will be fired.

No need for husband to get involved here other than give advice to wife what to do and what not to do.

If she continues to be friendly/communicate with this jerk.....I call that "paving your own road". It gives the guy drive to continue to pursue it.

Has HR been contacted? Does the school know? are my big questions


----------



## DoF

Chaparral said:


> Evidently rules seem to be unenforced. Teachers and nurses are pretty much in a dead heat leading the professions that cheat the most.
> 
> I would show up at the right time to see if he was there talking to his wife. There may be more to this than she has let on. She may have even said something as damage control. In any event, there is no reason a husband can't interfere with an obvious player on the make. The marriage is more important than the job in any case.


It is, BUT if his wife continues to talk to him........that's making the situation WORSE.

And I would recommend even MORE for husband to not get involved.

His wife is a mature woman. She should be smart enough to deal with this man proper, and if not, HR will.

You cannot do this for your wife her whole LIFE OP. And if she is even half way decent looking she will be dealing with man like this for MANY years to come.

Are you ALWAYS going to bail her out? Or expect her to deal with it herself.

I still think the issue is with the wife.....she is probably still talking to him so he thinks there is a chance.

If she was cold/nasty or simply ignored him, I doubt he would stick around and continue on.

Sorry


----------



## John Lee

The thing is, I would really like to see her tell the guy to stop coming around, because it would show me that she puts me first. As long as she doesn't do it herself, I feel like the guy gets the impression that she doesn't actually mind his attention. And maybe she doesn't mind it enough, is part of my concern. If I come in a do it I could look like the "controlling husband."


----------



## DoF

John Lee said:


> The thing is, I would really like to see her tell the guy to stop coming around, because it would show me that she puts me first. As long as she doesn't do it herself, I feel like the guy gets the impression that she doesn't actually mind his attention. And maybe she doesn't mind it enough, is part of my concern. If I come in a do it I could look like the "controlling husband."


EXACTLY what I'm trying to say

As a woman, she needs to learn to deal with man that come onto her.

Once their intentions are known, it needs to be recognized and DEALT WITH. And BTW it's safe to say that ANY man that is nice to her/friendly has those intentions hehe

What she is dealing with is simply her negligence to address this guy proper. 

I would have a serious conversation with wife and tell her the following:
a) you need to look deeply in his face and tell him to never talk to you again. He has crossed a line of no return
b) never speak or even look at him again. Not even hi

If A or B doesn't work > right to HR/Principles office and be FIRM. Tell them that if it continues you are thinking about starting a harassment suit.

Guy will get fired and problem solved

This is not just a lesson for now, it's a lesson for LIFE. This man will NOT be the first or last, trust me on that OP.

I have a feeling your wife is just too nice to be nasty. And the problem is, every nice person gets to a point where they are being effected/taken advantage off. If you don't be nasty at times to those that deserve it......you are in a WORLD of trouble. There is a WHOLE line of people that will do anything and everything to take advantage of the "nice person".

And yes, those are the worst kind of people to surround yourself with....


----------



## soccermom2three

I agree with mate guarding. If my husband didn't mate guard then it sends me a message that he doesn't care what I do or what happens to me. It makes him very unattractive to me. Maybe old fashioned but I won't apologize for it. 

I can't remember the whole thread but I don't think she has ever found the courage to say anything to the guy, (sounds like me, lol). It was her assistant that finally told the guy to leave her alone, right?


----------



## SailBadTheSinner

Thie guy is a creep and if he's creeping a grown woman,what about kids he's in charge of or comes in contact with? Is your wife so special that you think shes the only one? Ask yourself; what if i do nothing and he molests a student? Remember Penn State?

Sexual innuendo in conversation is off limits at a school, or should be and especially when a woman says its unwelcome.

Have a confidential talk with the principal and tell him you expect the creep to be gone in the fall.


----------



## DoF

soccermom2three said:


> I agree with mate guarding. If my husband didn't mate guard then it sends me a message that he doesn't care what I do or what happens to me. It makes him very unattractive to me. Maybe old fashioned but I won't apologize for it.
> 
> I can't remember the whole thread but I don't think she has ever found the courage to say anything to the guy, (sounds like me, lol). It was her assistant that finally told the guy to leave her alone, right?


That's just so silly

If you can deal with man coming onto you, than you shouldn't be married

Sorry

I did the ENTIRE male guarding thing in high school. I won't even begin to tell you how many ass whoppings I gave out....

It was childish/immature and stupid. My wife will even tell you that.

The problem was, MY WIFE, not the man that will naturally go after what they want/desire.

WOMAN has to be able to shield herself and deal with it UNLESS it gets out of control completely. THEN it's a completely different game.

This is no different than going after man that wife cheats with. Problem is not with the man, problem is with the wife!!!


----------



## DoF

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Thie guy is a creep and if he's creeping a grown woman,what about kids he's in charge of or comes in contact with? Is your wife so special that you think shes the only one? Ask yourself; what if i do nothing and he molests a student? Remember Penn State?
> 
> Sexual innuendo in conversation is off limits at a school, or should be and especially when a woman says its unwelcome.
> 
> Have a confidential talk with the principal and tell him you expect the creep to be gone in the fall.


School will need to hear this from their EMPLOYEE not a spouse.

SHE Needs to do that, assuming she already ignored him totally and told him how it is........which I don't believe has happened yet.


----------



## Cynthia

This is very concerning that your wife is not doing anything about this. She could put a stop to it. Why isn't she? That is the real issue here that needs to be addressed. Not in an angry of demanding way, but really trying to understand your wife and why she is responding in this manner.


----------



## DoF

CynthiaDe said:


> This is very concerning that your wife is not doing anything about this. She could put a stop to it. Why isn't she? That is the real issue here that needs to be addressed. Not in an angry of demanding way, but really trying to understand your wife and why she is responding in this manner.


Finally, someone that has a clue!!!

PFEW

Some of these responses here are just straight up crazy. :scratchhead:


----------



## soccermom2three

DoF said:


> That's just so silly
> 
> If you can deal with man coming onto you, than you shouldn't be married
> 
> Sorry
> 
> I did the ENTIRE male guarding thing in high school. I won't even begin to tell you how many ass whoppings I gave out....
> 
> It was childish/immature and stupid. My wife will even tell you that.
> 
> The problem was, MY WIFE, not the man that will naturally go after what they want/desire.
> 
> WOMAN has to be able to shield herself and deal with it UNLESS it gets out of control completely. THEN it's a completely different game.
> 
> This is no different than going after man that wife cheats with. Problem is not with the man, problem is with the wife!!!


If you can't have a discussion without being insulting then maybe you need to step away from the computer for a while.


----------



## sh987

For crying out loud... The forum double-posted what I wrote. So, I went back and edited this, and now the old one is gone. lol


----------



## Tobyboy

John Lee said:


> Finally she admitted that she likes getting the attention, that the guy is interesting to talk to, and that she's flattered that someone thinks she's attractive.


....and this is why she won't put a stop to it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Philat

DoF said:


> Finally, someone that has a clue!!!
> 
> PFEW
> 
> Some of these responses here are just straight up crazy. :scratchhead:


Almost everyone thinks that John Lee's W should deal with this guy on her own decisively (including John Lee). The mate-guarding business is part of the discussion about why she isn't doing this--she may be looking for him to do something as some kind of test.


----------



## sh987

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Thie guy is a creep and if he's creeping a grown woman,what about kids he's in charge of or comes in contact with? Is your wife so special that you think shes the only one? Ask yourself; what if i do nothing and he molests a student? Remember Penn State?
> 
> Sexual innuendo in conversation is off limits at a school, or should be and especially when a woman says its unwelcome.
> 
> Have a confidential talk with the principal and tell him you expect the creep to be gone in the fall.


He's a creep, and I disagree with his behaviour in every way... But does him hitting on JL's wife make him a potential pedophile, too? Seems a bit of a jump.


----------



## sh987

Chaparral said:


> Evidently rules seem to be unenforced. *Teachers and nurses are pretty much in a dead heat leading the professions that cheat the most.*


Side-point... My wife is an OR nurse, though now in a management position. Anyway, this past weekend, she was telling me about a situation with a surgeon and nurse who'd been in an affair for years and years (he was married and she was single). They'd sneak off to the sleep room in the middle of the day, that kind of thing. A few months ago, he started running around on her and his wife with a younger nurse, and this nurse ended up quitting and moving out of province to kinda start over.

Mrs. SH987: "The affair is bad enough. It's horrible. What I really don't get is why, if you have to be in an affair, would it have to be with a surgeon? Do you know most of them wear the same sweaty, snotty mask all day? They just push it down and then pull it back up? Half of those guys are some of the biggest slobs you'll ever meet. "Sterile field" my ass... Who could sneak off with that?"

lol...


----------



## DoF

soccermom2three said:


> If you can't have a discussion without being insulting then maybe you need to step away from the computer for a while.


I'm as insulting as you want to make it.

I don't feel that I came off that way, and still don't.


----------



## DoF

Philat said:


> Almost everyone thinks that John Lee's W should deal with this guy on her own decisively (including John Lee). The mate-guarding business is part of the discussion about why she isn't doing this--she may be looking for him to do something as some kind of test.


While she plays games and expects some kind of a test......the REAL test is on HER. And she is failing....


----------



## DoF

Tobyboy said:


> ....and this is why she won't put a stop to it!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And her act is VERY dangerous!!!

Wouldn't surprise me if this guy actual ends up getting what he is after.


----------



## SailBadTheSinner

sh987 said:


> He's a creep, and I disagree with his behaviour in every way... But does him hitting on JL's wife make him a potential pedophile, too? Seems a bit of a jump.


Not a jump at all. It's a logical conclusion. Why do you think he's volunteering at a high school? If I were the father of a 16 or 17 year old daughter involved in sports and found out this volunteer was creeping young teachers, I be very concerned...strike that...mad as h#ll.

The principal needs to know. Lee's problem pales in light of what could happen, or has happened with others less able to defend themselves. If his wife won't do anything, he must


----------



## naiveonedave

If the OP does nothing, I think it will go too far. If you were the vicitim of betrayal, and all you had to do to stop the betrayal was mate guard, would you do it, DOF? Even if your wife should not need you to do it?


----------



## DoF

naiveonedave said:


> If the OP does nothing, I think it will go too far. If you were the vicitim of betrayal, and all you had to do to stop the betrayal was mate guard, would you do it, DOF? Even if your wife should not need you to do it?


Problem is, wife HAS to do it.

If a woman is unable to reject and handle man coming onto her, chances are high that infidelity is in the near future.

THUS, I would probably not want to be involved with such woman or pursue relationship. 

OP is a victim of betrayal because his wife hasn't done what needed to be done MANY MANY moons ago.


----------



## DoF

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Not a jump at all. It's a logical conclusion. Why do you think he's volunteering at a high school? If I were the father of a 16 or 17 year old daughter involved in sports and found out this volunteer was creeping young teachers, I be very concerned...strike that...mad as h#ll.
> 
> The principal needs to know. Lee's problem pales in light of what could happen, or has happened with others less able to defend themselves. If his wife won't do anything, he must


And when he does, authorities will need to investigate and interview all the teachers/people involved.

If those people haven't spoke up by now, they won't when the investigation takes place.



And he will just make himself look like a jealous/insecure fool.


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## Iver

I really put the blame for this on John's wife here - sorry but any attractive woman is going to experience guys hitting on them, married or not.

His comments to John's wife were grossly over the line and she should have shut him down hard after that.

I don't believe for one second she couldn't give him "The Cold Shoulder" when he's in her room yakking away at her if she wanted to discourage him.

That's the real problem here. I also expect that he'll be asking her to go out for coffee or lunch if he hasn't already. 

Just as friends of course.


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## sh987

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Not a jump at all. It's a logical conclusion. Why do you think he's volunteering at a high school? If I were the father of a 16 or 17 year old daughter involved in sports and found out this volunteer was creeping young teachers, I be very concerned...strike that...mad as h#ll.


I don't consider it to be a logical conclusion that he's a pedophile. It's a possibility, as it is for seemingly normal people who work with minors, but not the logical conclusion, imo. From what I'm reading, JL's wife is at least in her 30s. Does it really work like "Damn, this 30-something woman isn't going for it. Guess I'd better bag myself a 16-year old"?



> The principal needs to know. Lee's problem pales in light of what could happen, or has happened with others less able to defend themselves. If his wife won't do anything, he must


I also think JL could do much worse than speaking to the principal.


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## SailBadTheSinner

Just saying there's more at stake here. John needs stop dithering and reach between his legs to see if he's got a pair and then do something.


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## DoF

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Just saying there's more at stake here. John needs stop dithering and reach between his legs to see if he's got a pair and then do something.


His wife needs to reach into her head and see if there is any brains if anything.

:scratchhead:


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## DoF

Iver said:


> I really put the blame for this on John's wife here - sorry but any attractive woman is going to experience guys hitting on them, married or not.
> 
> His comments to John's wife were grossly over the line and she should have shut him down hard after that.
> 
> I don't believe for one second she couldn't give him "The Cold Shoulder" when he's in her room yakking away at her if she wanted to discourage him.
> 
> That's the real problem here. I also expect that he'll be asking her to go out for coffee or lunch if he hasn't already.
> 
> Just as friends of course.


:smthumbup:

And the way it stands now, she will probably accept.

:rofl:


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## weightlifter

Wasnt this guy some kind of player whos allegedly slept with quite a few others at the school?

Maybe his doing a test because she gives off "low hanging fruit" signals. One of those things. JL Has to win EVERY time. He has to win only once.


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## John Lee

SailBadTheSinner said:


> Just saying there's more at stake here. John needs stop dithering and reach between his legs to see if he's got a pair and then do something.


I'm not dithering, the problem looked like it was solved for a while. Now it's back.


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## DoF

John Lee said:


> I'm not dithering, the problem looked like it was solved for a while. Now it's back.


Clearly your wife is doing something wrong.


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## Cynthia

DoF said:


> And her act is VERY dangerous!!!
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me if this guy actual ends up getting what he is after.


I agree. 
You cannot force your wife to do something, but you can continue to let her know that what you want her to do about it and to find out why she is so desperate for attention. Is there something missing in your relationship or is she an attention hog. What is going on and how can it be corrected. Your wife needs to understand that this is totally unacceptable to you. Her lack of action to make it stop and especially her encouraging him, by allowing him to continue to pursue her is a serious problem that cannot go unchecked.


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## DoF

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree.
> You cannot force your wife to do something, but you can continue to let her know that what you want her to do about it and to find out why she is so desperate for attention. Is there something missing in your relationship or is she an attention hog. What is going on and how can it be corrected. Your wife needs to understand that this is totally unacceptable to you. Her lack of action to make it stop and especially her encouraging him, by allowing him to continue to pursue her is a serious problem that cannot go unchecked.


Agreed

I would have 20x more beef with my wife than with some random guy going after what random guys go after.


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## tom67

John Lee said:


> I'm not dithering, the problem looked like it was solved for a while. Now it's back.


John your wife's boundaries suck and you know you can't control her.
Don't say anything to her about this anymore go to the principal and have a conversation.
Again say nothing to the wife.
Then observe her actions.

People are right this is on her to fix but I personally would not go down doing nothing.
Is it right...I don't know but I would regret it if I didn't.
It's your call and I truly wish you the best.


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## unbelievable

Only the insane persist in an activity that is not being rewarded. If this guy has been flirting with a married woman at work for some time, she's rewarding the effort. Any woman under 90 is going to occasionally get hit on. Those who object to such behavior know how to stop it and they will.


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## Cynthia

unbelievable said:


> Only the insane persist in an activity that is not being rewarded. If this guy has been flirting with a married woman at work for some time, she's rewarding the effort. Any woman under 90 is going to occasionally get hit on. Those who object to such behavior know how to stop it and they will.


True. I tell my daughters that it never stops. I had always thought that by the time I hit 30 or 35 that it would end, but it doesn't. The key is to not encourage those men.
Both of my daughters are very beautiful. They get a lot of stares and attention from men, but I taught them early on how to answer and what to do to get men to leave them alone. My youngest is still learning, but my older daughter has it down pat. She does not have a problem being blunt and even appearing to be mean. My youngest is still working on it. 
The point is that, women can shut it down quickly and easily, if they want to, unless the man is truly dangerous and then other methods must be employed. The man described here is a player, but he doesn't sound dangerous. He should be easy enough to shut down and if her persists after that, it is a simple thing to bring in leadership to shut him down and possibly drive him away.


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## Iver

John,

Has he tried escalating yet? That is the usual SOP (standard operating procedure) for players.


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## Iver

CynthiaDe said:


> True. I tell my daughters that it never stops. I had always thought that by the time I hit 30 or 35 that it would end, but it doesn't. The key is to not encourage those men.
> Both of my daughters are very beautiful. They get a lot of stares and attention from men, but I taught them early on how to answer and what to do to get men to leave them alone. My youngest is still learning, but my older daughter has it down pat. She does not have a problem being blunt and even appearing to be mean. My youngest is still working on it.
> *The point is that, women can shut it down quickly and easily, if they want to*, unless the man is truly dangerous and then other methods must be employed. The man described here is a player, but he doesn't sound dangerous. He should be easy enough to shut down and if her persists after that, it is a simple thing to bring in leadership to shut him down and possibly drive him away.



This is why I'm not convinced John speaking to the principal is such a good idea. Maybe I'm wrong here but if John's wife has no problem with chit-chatting with Mr. Player what is the complaint going to be about? 

Now if she ignored him or told him she was busy or some such and he continued to try to flirt, well then at that point you have grounds for a complaint. 

Until then it seems John would just come across as a little bit of a control freak.


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## Marduk

Hit on an another woman when you're wife's around and gauge the response.

If she's mad, don't accept it, play dumb, and accept zero responsibility. Then and only then you might see some change.

If she doesn't get mad, it's not just innocent flirting, she's shopping for Mr. Next. And maybe already made a purchase.

The guy's a ****, sure. But this is on her, not him. If it were a problem for her, it would either be over or she'd be filing a complaint.

It's funny how things are suddenly very serious and get changed FAST when the shoe's on the other foot.


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## 6301

Nineteen pages and this is still going on. Now I don't know about you but if this woman wants this guy to stop bugging her, she can do something about it real quick just by saying to him, "Hey, get the hell out of my class room and stop bothering me or else by the time me and my lawyer are through with you, you'll be scratching your ass trying to find another job". 

It can be done..............................if she wants it done and that's the problem.


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## bandit.45

DoF said:


> School will need to hear this from their EMPLOYEE not a spouse.
> 
> SHE Needs to do that, assuming she already ignored him totally and told him how it is........which I don't believe has happened yet.



DoF, can you stop shooting your mouth off long enough to consider that maybe....just maybe she is afraid of this guy?


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## bandit.45

John needs to have a face to face, man to man talk with this chump. Chumps like this guy won't go away unless they have the specter of an ass whooping hanging over them. I have dealt with these types too often in my past.


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> John needs to have a face to face, man to man talk with this chump. Chumps like this guy won't go away unless they have the specter of an ass whooping hanging over them. I have dealt with these types too often in my past.


:iagree:
Cowards act all tough until you confront them.


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## Cynthia

She isn't afraid of the man. She told her husband she kind of likes the attention.
The problem here is not that the man is coming on to the OP's wife. The problem is that this marriage is lacking some very significant boundaries. The first of which is that if something bothers your reasonable spouse, you do something to make it stop. In a healthy marriage, both husband and wife are committed to the well-being of the other. In an unhealthy relationship, those types of boundaries regarding the well-being of each other are blurred and not established. This marriage needs some boundary building exercises.


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## bandit.45

CynthiaDe said:


> She isn't afraid of the man. She told her husband she kind of likes the attention.
> The problem here is not that the man is coming on to the OP's wife. The problem is that this marriage is lacking some very significant boundaries. The first of which is that if something bothers your reasonable spouse, you do something to make it stop. In a healthy marriage, both husband and wife are committed to the well-being of the other. In an unhealthy relationship, those types of boundaries regarding the well-being of each other are blurred and not established. This marriage needs some boundary building exercises.


I still think he needs to drive a wedge in between them. He needs to fight for his marriage or walk away. If she has low boundaries then he needs to demand some kind of MC or counseling. If she won't do that then he has a tough decision to make.


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## Cynthia

bandit.45 said:


> I still think he needs to drive a wedge in between them. He needs to fight for his marriage or walk away. If she has low boundaries then he needs to demand some kind of MC or counseling. If she won't do that then he has a tough decision to make.


I agree that if she refuses to take his concerns into consideration and to do something about them, that right there is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. This can't be the only area where this has become a problem.


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## 6301

bandit.45 said:


> I still think he needs to drive a wedge in between them. He needs to fight for his marriage or walk away. If she has low boundaries then he needs to demand some kind of MC or counseling. If she won't do that then he has a tough decision to make.


 What he needs to do is drive that wedge between her butt cheeks and tell her that any more of this and she can go live with the guy and be done with it. 

The only way this guy can get to first base with her is if she lets him. IF-SHE-LETS-HIM.


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## bandit.45

CynthiaDe said:


> She isn't afraid of the man. She told her husband she kind of likes the attention.
> .


Yeah, but some women can be scared of a guy AND turned on by him at the same time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

bandit.45 said:


> I still think he needs to drive a wedge in between them. He needs to fight for his marriage or walk away. If she has low boundaries then he needs to demand some kind of MC or counseling. If she won't do that then he has a tough decision to make.


A big YES!


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## Cynthia

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, but some women can be scared of a guy AND turned on by him at the same time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If that is the case with her, why would she not do something about it, like her husband has asked her to do?
She has more power in this situation than he does, so why hasn't she done anything about it?
As far as John Lee has posted, she hasn't expressed any fear about this man.


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## bandit.45

CynthiaDe said:


> If that is the case with her, why would she not do something about it, like her husband has asked her to do?
> She has more power in this situation than he does, so why hasn't she done anything about it?
> As far as John Lee has posted, she hasn't expressed any fear about this man.


Maybe because she's waiting for her husband to step up and really act like he gives a sh!t.


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## See_Listen_Love

CynthiaDe said:


> I agree that if she refuses to take his concerns into consideration and to do something about them, that right there is a huge problem that needs to be addressed. This can't be the only area where this has become a problem.


:iagree:

The question is WHY does she like the attention of that man?

If OP does not figure this out, he can wait for an EA/PA to happen, now or later, with him or another.


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## Chaparral

Many people, especially women, are afraid t confront other people. They cant be forceful enough in many real life situations. JL should know if his wife is like this. I am guessing she is afraid of telling him to back off, too embarrassed, doesn't want to be rude etc.

She has told her husband what is going on, essentially telling him she cant handle the situation and is in a quandary. If JL doesn't do anything; he wont know if it has been taken care of. She is likely to just quit giving him updates and either just suffer or enjoy the talks and keep quiet about it. If he doesn't do anything, my experience is she will hold it against him forever.


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## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, but some women can be scared of a guy AND turned on by him at the same time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Truth...


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## Blossom Leigh

bandit.45 said:


> Maybe because she's waiting for her husband to step up and really act like he gives a sh!t.


Definitely could be part of the picture...


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## Blossom Leigh

My husband and I just had this conversation this week. Because of the intense abuse I grew up in I have had to do a LOT of boundary work and it has taken years for me to get where I am now, which some of you can tell is bordering too strong sometimes, but this past weekend a guy at our church was chatting hard with me and at one point my husband looked him in the eye, pointed at himself and me and said "we're married." I for one appreciated it because I have weaknesses in my boundaries and appreciate the backup. I told my husband that to an extent and within reason I like it when my stud herds his mare away from another. It does communicate desire to me when done with the right heart.

My ex never protected me even when his friends were very ivert in their attention/hitting on me and it translated into "do you care if you lose me?"


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## nuclearnightmare

John:

if I recall correctly hasn't this guy already made some out of bounds sexual comments to your wife?

I try to keep an open mind on male/female rlnships (just in case I have a chance to learn something  ) - but - 
I'm with the crowd here that believes you need to get a lot tougher on this. a lot tougher with your wife. if she kinda likes the attention - then IMO it isn't your job to "mate guard." Instead it is her responsibility to 'marriage guard.' IMO she is the one being tested, and she is not doing great on the exam.


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## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, but *most* women can be scared of a guy AND turned on by him at the same time.


fixed that.


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## Marduk

Chaparral said:


> Many people, especially women, are afraid t confront other people. They cant be forceful enough in many real life situations. JL should know if his wife is like this. I am guessing she is afraid of telling him to back off, too embarrassed, doesn't want to be rude etc.
> 
> She has told her husband what is going on, essentially telling him she cant handle the situation and is in a quandary. If JL doesn't do anything; he wont know if it has been taken care of. She is likely to just quit giving him updates and either just suffer or enjoy the talks and keep quiet about it. If he doesn't do anything, my experience is she will hold it against him forever.


Hmmm... I think there may be a sizeable fraction of women that are the equivalent of "nice guys."

However, in my experience, I've never found a woman that's open to flirtation that isn't getting something out of it... and that's why she's open to it.


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## Chaparral

The thing is, JL knows there is a problem. The only person he can trust to take care of the situation is himself. If he depends on his wife and she isn't up to the task, she might pretend everything is now ok.


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## DoF

Chaparral said:


> The thing is, JL knows there is a problem. The only person he can trust to take care of the situation is himself. If he depends on his wife and she isn't up to the task, she might pretend everything is now ok.


Disagree

His wife will be under CONSTANT battle with men even if she is half way decent looking. It's her job and responsibility to tell them to beat it if they push too hard etc.

If she won't do it, no OP's action ever will. 

As long as men know there is an option/chance, they will NOT stop until they get the cookie.

And if his wife doesn't do it FAST, in time, they WILL get he cookie.

I would have absolutely NO beef with this guy or ANY men. 

I would however have beef with my wife!!!


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## Blossom Leigh

DoF said:


> Disagree
> 
> His wife will be under CONSTANT battle with men even if she is half way decent looking. It's her job and responsibility to tell them to beat it if they push too hard etc.
> 
> If she won't do it, no OP's action ever will.
> 
> As long as men know there is an option/chance, they will NOT stop until they get the cookie.
> 
> And if his wife doesn't do it FAST, in time, they WILL get he cookie.
> 
> I would have absolutely NO beef with this guy or ANY men.
> 
> I would however have beef with my wife!!!


My two cents on that is that it is ok for him to do it when she hasn't developed those boundaries and help reinforce what she should do, but it is only a temporary fix and there would need to be discussions about strengthening her in that area until she CAN do it on her own and wants to. I prefer a guy who will be willing to step in if needed, but trust me to do it myself. There is always going to be a guy out there that will challenge even strong boundaries, so he can't just press in once and then just leave her to her own vices. He needs to expect her to be able, but to step in when she one comes along that is beyond her capacity at that moment until she can strengthen her weak spot.


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## DoF

Blossom Leigh said:


> My two cents on that is that it is ok for him to do it when she hasn't developed those boundaries and help reinforce what she should do, but it is only a temporary fix and there would need to be discussions about strengthening her in that area until she CAN do it on her own and wants to. I prefer a guy who will be willing to step in if needed, but trust me to do it myself. There is always going to be a guy out there that will challenge even strong boundaries, so he can't just press in once and then just leave her to her own vices. He needs to expect her to be able, but to step in when she one comes along that is beyond her capacity at that moment until she can strengthen her weak spot.


Sure, but OP is nowhere near that right now.

Trust me, I'm all for a good can of ass whopping and standing up for my woman. 

But first, I expect my woman to stand up for herself. If she CLEARLY told him NO, she went to HR/Principle and that didn't work......you damn right the guy would get a visit from me.


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## Blossom Leigh

DoF said:


> Sure, but OP is nowhere near that right now.
> 
> Trust me, I'm all for a good can of ass whopping and standing up for my woman.
> 
> But first, I expect my woman to stand up for herself. If she CLEARLY told him NO, she went to HR/Principle and that didn't work......you damn right the guy would get a visit from me.



Excellent!!:smthumbup:


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## Blossom Leigh

I told my husband just this week that I am very capable to lay a VERY CLEAR boundary with anyone these days, but that I STILL love to be a "herded mare." My ex was clueless on this front, but my H would not hesitate and I love that. Just makes me stand stronger


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## DoF

Blossom Leigh said:


> I told my husband just this week that I am very capable to lay a VERY CLEAR boundary with anyone these days, but that I STILL love to be a "herded mare." My ex was clueless on this front, but my H would not hesitate and I love that. Just makes me stand stronger


If you do your end of things, chances are high that no action will EVER be needed by your husband.

Most man will run for the hills when you tell them how it is.


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## Blossom Leigh

DoF said:


> If you do your end of things, chances are high that no action will EVER be needed by your husband.
> 
> Most man will run for the hills when you tell them how it is.


Correct. And for that rare bird of an idiot that chose to press in anyways my H stepping in to protect me is a serious turn on. That is if the guy survived my next round of NO!!


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## weightlifter

Flirty man still around?


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## star2916

Well.... I get "approached " by neighbors all the time, I live in a kind of retired community and walk my dog everyday., I am polite at first, let's say once or twice, but when they start showing their "true intentions ", I tell them I have not need or time, for extra friends in my life, and I do not appreciate men coming on to me. It disgusts me. 
( only if I am single and if I am looking . and if I am interested, would I accept the attention} 
So far, never a problem, never a third intent in their part.

I think women and men, shall be clear of what you are willing to accept from others and don't feel bad about it. It is called "personal boundaries"


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