# Earned Love



## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Have any of your wives/SOs significantly improved their attitude towards/perception of you after several years and you having provided a high living standard and a good example of fatherhood to your kids? While it's good to have earned respect, and it should be earned, shouldn't love and admiration from the opposite sex be unconditional, and spark stronger in the beginning? Does it ever feel a bit like having bought love (and it may be via your living standards)?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

With ex-wife, the love was always there pre-success. With dates after her, I can never tell if the love is based on what I can provide or who I am.
Its the reason I'm having such a hard time trusting/falling in love with someone else to this day.

However, based on several opinions it seems the desire for a successful/wealthy man is natural among women. Evolution and natural selection they say. Ex-GF was quite forward with her admission that she found my success/wealth one of the main reasons she was attracted to me. I ended things last valentines day.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Ex-GF was quite forward with her admission that she found my success/wealth one of the main reasons she was attracted to me. I ended things last valentines day.


Was it because of this admission that made you end things with her?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

It was a contributor yes, but not the sole reason. Her admission prevented me from looking at her the same way I looked at my ex-wife (I did not get the same "feels", the feeling that she loved me for who I am, not what I can do or provide), but it was her expectations and new demands that came after we became an official couple that made me realise I had to end things before I started leading her on, over a hundred thousand dollars worth of investment in fact as she wanted me to finance/kickstart her business, not to mention she was being increasingly impatient at being unable to meet my daughter.

I had wanted to remain friends with her, as I've always respected her honesty and transparency, however she was heartbroken and bitter after the breakup to the point we're no longer in contact.

We were simply better off as FWBs


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Have any of your wives/SOs significantly improved their attitude towards/perception of you after several years and you having provided a high living standard and a good example of fatherhood to your kids? While it's good to have earned respect, and it should be earned, *shouldn't love and admiration from the opposite sex be unconditional*, and spark stronger in the beginning? Does it ever feel a bit like having bought love (and it may be via your living standards)?


I think the idea that romantic love and admiration should be unconditional is one of the great fantasies of this - or any - age. No, romantic love is not unconditional. Why? Because love is based on your partner's ability to meet your needs. If your partner stops meeting your needs, you eventually fall out of love. If your partner gets better at meeting your needs, you fall more deeply in love. 

The truth is, romantic relationships are conditional. If you treat someone poorly, they fall out of love with you. If you stop being the person they fell in love with, they fall out of love with you. If you stay who they fell in love with, and continue to treat them well, chances are much better that they'll stay in love with you. But the idea that "my partner should love me no matter what" is just not the way reality works.

Some people have a high need for family commitment (being a good parent) or for financial support (being a good provider), just as some people have a high need for a physically attractive partner, sex, affection, or domestic support (being a good homemaker). Just because your partner's needs are different from your own does not make your needs "right" and her needs somehow shallow or invalid. If you feel like you have to buy your wife's affections with parenting or supplying a good lifestyle, is she also buying your affections by maintaining her physical attractiveness, being a good mother, or meeting your sexual needs? What if she stopped looking good, taking good care of your kids, or having sex with you? Would you still be in love with her? If you really think that love and admiration from the opposite sex should be unconditional, you'd have to answer "yes" to that question. But, in all reality, the chances of remaining in love with her if she stopped meeting your needs would be pretty slim. You might still love her and care about her well-being, but you likely wouldn't remain in romantic love with her.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> With ex-wife, the love was always there pre-success. With dates after her, I can never tell if the love is based on what I can provide or who I am.
> Its the reason I'm having such a hard time trusting/falling in love with someone else to this day.
> 
> However, based on several opinions it seems the desire for a successful/wealthy man is natural among women. Evolution and natural selection they say. Ex-GF was quite forward with her admission that she found my success/wealth one of the main reasons she was attracted to me. I ended things last valentines day.


How would any woman know if you loved her for who she was or how hot you thought she was? 

Men do this all the time yet somehow it's viewed differently. Why is that? 

And frankly you will never have a successful long term relationship as long as everyone is viewed in comparison to your ex wife. Just saying.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Have any of your wives/SOs significantly improved their attitude towards/perception of you after several years and you having provided a high living standard and a good example of fatherhood to your kids? While it's good to have earned respect, and it should be earned, shouldn't love and admiration from the opposite sex be unconditional, and spark stronger in the beginning? Does it ever feel a bit like having bought love (and it may be via your living standards)?


I actually had the opposite reaction. The more I became those things, the more contempt I received from her.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I find that it's exactly the opposite. I find after giving your family your all, all your love and all your free time, a nice house, nice vactions, having you kids go to good colleges and nice presents an extras for your wife only breeds contempt. It seems that the more you give and the better father you want to be and strive for is only good for more complaints and more *****ing from your wife, she also decides it's ok to put on weight and be horrible to both you and the kids. I wish I knew why that is.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

toonaive said:


> I actually had the opposite reaction. The more I became those things, the more contempt I received from her.


Wow I just wrote the same thing without even reading any of the other posts. It really too bad women do his. Makes you want to not do anything for her.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> How would any woman know if you loved her for who she was or how hot you thought she was?
> 
> Men do this all the time yet somehow it's viewed differently. Why is that?


I view it differently as I have never pursued a woman for her finances, nor have most men I know. If I hold myself to a non-materialistic standard why do I not have a right to hold others to the same?

I do have physical standards yes, but these are standards I also hold myself to.

Natural selection is the only argument that I consider viable in this case - where materialism amongst women is to be accepted. However having married a woman who couldn't give two sh-ts about my finances prevents me from accepting it.



> And frankly you will never have a successful long term relationship as long as everyone is viewed in comparison to your ex wife. Just saying.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know, and nothing I can do about it. The standard is there, and it's there to stay.



toonaive said:


> I actually had the opposite reaction. The more I became those things, the more contempt I received from her.


Human nature to take things for granted


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Finances are just one part of it. The other is hard work on the household, child-rearing, organizing vacations, etc.

It's as if the woman's love is directed at a constructed shell of you, not the real you.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

moco82 said:


> Have any of your wives/SOs significantly improved their attitude towards/perception of you after several years and you having provided a high living standard and a good example of fatherhood to your kids? While it's good to have earned respect, and it should be earned, *shouldn't love and admiration from the opposite sex be unconditional*, and spark stronger in the beginning? Does it ever feel a bit like having bought love (and it may be via your living standards)?


I believe yes. Love should be unconditional.

How your partner meets your needs of course comes into play and affects your relationship. If your partner becomes dysfunctional or doesn't meet your needs, you will have decisions to make.
sometimes drastic ones. But the love never goes away.
At least that's what I believe.

I still love those who cheated on me. I left them. Doesn't mean I stopped loving them. It depends on your definition of love I suppose. My definition transcends everything practical.
You love because you love. That's all. It doesn't end.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Well, with finances yes, but I wouldn't considered hard work on the household, being a daddy, organising vacations a constructed shell of me, but that's just me.


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## pb76no (Nov 1, 2012)

toonaive said:


> I actually had the opposite reaction. The more I became those things, the more contempt I received from her.





jb02157 said:


> Wow I just wrote the same thing without even reading any of the other posts. It really too bad women do his. Makes you want to not do anything for her.


I'm not sure one is causing the other. There are probably different reasons for the contempt.

As for the general question, I think unconditional love and admiration only applies for parents to children, and dogs to owners.

And thank goodness I have dogs.:laugh:


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

I don't understand "It's as if the woman's love is directed at a constructed shell of you, not the real you". What is the real you? The opposite of what you described in your OP? When you get married and start a family aren't you supposed to do those things?

I don't love my husband because he just exists and I'm sure it's the same for him. I love him for all the different parts of him that make him whole. We all have conditions or standards when it comes to loving someone. Really if he was a loser, with no job, wasn't involved with the kids and didn't take care of the house, I would be out. One of the many reasons I love my husband is because he is the opposite of what I described. He gets **** done!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

RandomDude said:


> I view it differently as I have never pursued a woman for her finances, nor have most men I know. If I hold myself to a non-materialistic standard why do I not have a right to hold others to the same?
> 
> I do have physical standards yes, but these are standards I also hold myself to.
> 
> ...




Ok, so you don't care if she loves you for you, just that she's attracted to you. 

That's fair enough, especially if you hold yourself to the same standards.

As far as the ex , that is what it is, but you might consider that you're idealizing her. If she's so great why did you divorce her? I just think you're setting yourself up to be lonely and it's sad. Are you ok with a woman comparing you to her ex in every way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

:scratchhead:

How on earth did you get the impression that I don't care if a woman loves me for me? My entire post is to express that it's what I desire the most

As for ex-wife, I divorced her out of pride and pain. She wished to reconcile several times but I have rejected her constantly during seperation. I see her every week and all I can see is how she has matured and she continues to be an excellent mother to our daughter. I am considering reconciliation but have yet to find a safe and favorable approach.

As for other woman's standards if I fall short of them so be it, I'm not the type to go "oh lower your standards for me" I consider that approach pathetic.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

moco82 said:


> Does it ever feel a bit like having bought love (and it may be via your living standards)?


I wonder if this feeling only comes about when one views the marriage from a tipped scale. Thinking along the lines of "I brought this to the table and I earned the love, admiration and respect that go with it". As opposed to thinking along the lines of "We created this, a good home for our family, a good life with love, admiration and respect" 

I see a lot of comments lately where people feel unappreciated for their contribution in marriage. The example of marriage I was raised with was that marriage and family is a unit. The unit works together toward common goals. No one person is more important than the other each person in the unit contributes toward the goal. Victories are celebrated by the family unit and failures endured together. 

Families today like people today seem to be more self driven, what's in it for me, did I get my recognition, I need XYZ material thing. With everyone so focused on self the concept of the family unit and marriage is destroyed.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Rowan said:


> If you stop being the person they fell in love with, they fall out of love with you.


Yes. You stop being the person you were, and become a more successful and domiciled person.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I don't understand "It's as if the woman's love is directed at a constructed shell of you, not the real you". What is the real you? The opposite of what you described in your OP?


It can theoretically be the opposite, or any place in between. How you do your job at your second shift at home is no more of window into your soul than your first shift at work.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

moco82 said:


> Yes. You stop being the person you were, and become a more successful and domiciled person.


Does success truly change a person? I don't know.

Interesting you mentioned this, as personally though I found the real me hasn't changed much after success. My values / personality still the same, just more educated/experienced when it comes to work I guess.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Does success truly change a person? I don't know.


Yes, it does. When reality gradually alters, it can't not seep into your habits and thinking patterns.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Habits and thinking patterns perhaps, people grow, but not sure on values / personality.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Personality and values change too. The change is gradual and therefore unnoticeable. If a time machine existed, and you from the past and you from the future had met, you'd see the difference.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

soccermom2three said:


> I don't understand "It's as if the woman's love is directed at a constructed shell of you, not the real you". What is the real you? The opposite of what you described in your OP? When you get married and start a family aren't you supposed to do those things?
> 
> I don't love my husband because he just exists and I'm sure it's the same for him. I love him for all the different parts of him that make him whole. We all have conditions or standards when it comes to loving someone. Really if he was a loser, with no job, wasn't involved with the kids and didn't take care of the house, I would be out. One of the many reasons I love my husband is because he is the opposite of what I described. He gets **** done!


Interesting, my wife does not contribute financially to the family, is not involved with the kids and never bothers cooking or cleaning the house....so by your definition I have a right to leave. Wish it were all so simple. So let's say your husband get layed off and needs a bunch of time to look for a job and go on interviews so he wasn't as involved with the kids and didn't take care of the house...so you would leave is ass???? How shallow!


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Why would losing a job = letting the house go to pot and not being a good father? Is he going to interviews 24 hours a day? Your post doesn't make sense.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Well, this is going off the rails fast.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

I can only speak about my wife and I, but I don't feel like I have bought love. Many of the things my wife loves about me have been there from the start, and have only grown as we have grown as a married couple. Is she appreciative for the lifestyle my career has given us, yes. Heck, I am appreciative of it as well, but nowhere does love fall into the equation. 

As far as fatherhood, why wouldn't her perception of you improve if you provided a good example as a father? I would think if you were a $hitty father her thoughts of you would somewhat decline, no different than my thoughts would decline if she was a $hitty mother.

In general, as my wife and I have gotten older (geez, I hate saying that as we are not old lol) it is easier now to sit back and really appreciate what we have (whether it be each other, our kids, etc...).


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