# Vent Festival. Why I am not good enough.



## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

We are in our early 40's. I've known her for 13 years, married for 8, have a daughter, 2. I love my wife, she's sexy and smart and funny, but damn....I guess that's why I am posting this.

We both worked and built careers. We make/made the same annual salary within $1K of each other. I have always been the one to make sure the bills all get paid, the finances are budgeted, the cars get registered, repaired, the taxes are done, batteries are replaced, carpets are cleaned, windows are sparkling, etc... The "back office" ops of a relationship have all been on me. We had a maid twice a month, so she didn't even have to clean the apartment/house. 

(Anywhere I say in this post that "I bought" means with our combined incomes. To be clear).

When I was younger, I did a lot of adventurous type stuff, and while we were together, we traveled a lot. We have traveled all over but one place we had not gone was Europe and she always asked me to make it happen (which means budget for it). So I did. It was ten years after we met, but we went and spent two weeks driving through Europe seeing all the major places she had always wanted to see. By all accounts, a great trip. The reason it took so long is that once we decided to get married, the goal was first to save for an engagement ring, second to save for the wedding and honeymoon and third to save a down payment for a house. Europe was a luxury once the priorities were paid for. After I got the ring (cash) and paid for our entire wedding and honeymoon (cash) and saved up a reasonable down payment for a house (cash) - THEN I saved up for Europe and we went. 

A couple years after Europe, we bought a house (I took care of all the paperwork and budgeting) all she had to do was pick it out (within a max price-which she went over anyway). It's a nice house, I'm not complaining about that part. She bought a lot of furniture to fill it, and decorated it, etc... For Christmas a year later, I bought her a moderately expensive SUV that she always wanted (that I had postponed until our other objectives were met). 

As a typical guy, I've never really made any big ticket purchases. I have the same truck I drove since 1991. I have a 12 year old big screen TV. I don't need much. Beer and Kindle books are probably my biggest expenses and beer only in quality (expensive), not quantity.

We then talked about having a baby. I was ambivalent. A kid was interesting to me, not an infant. I could go either way, but she wanted one and I had no reason not to, so we did. 

I warned her before my daughter was born, for the first year, I wasn't going to be that interested in the infant stage. To me, an infant is basically a crying, sleeping, babbling, pooping, drooling organism. There would be no ooooh and awwwww from me. Now my baby is 2 and I love her to death, just like I knew I would once she could engage with me. She is fascinating and the love of my life...NOW. But not before, and I knew it would be that way. Anyway, I got flak for even warning her, let alone that it came to be true, but that's not the point of this post.

So all that said, while she was pregnant I took care of everything (as usual) including during the first year of my daughter...I cooked, laundered, yard work, kept the house up and running and still payed the bills, etc... Her mom was 2 miles down the road so she was able to help my wife out in taking care of the baby at any time. 

It was hard on my wife. I am not downplaying that. My daughter only slept 15 minutes at a time each hour for all the 24 hours of every day for three months. My wife was a zombie. That was one of the reasons I wanted to make sure that ALL she had to deal with, ever, was the baby. I also don't think she used her mom enough. She would complain about how rough it was, but her mom would only come a few times a week even though she is two miles down the road and retired.

When things settled down, I was put into a position I'm still failing. Time management. Quality Time for me. Q Time with daughter. Q Time with daughter and wife together. Time taking care of daughter so wife has Q Time to herself. When my parents were here for six months - Q Time with dad. Q Time with mom. Q Time with Dad and mom together, Q time with whole family together, AND do all my other responsibilities like work and house back office. Needless to say I failed and was accused of not spending enough time with either my daughter, or my wife, or my daughter and wife combined. I spent too much time with Dad, or too much time at work, or too much time on the house, etc...

After my daughter was born, my wife didn't work for six months or so, which was fine. I had savings to cover us and it was good bonding time for both of them with my mother-in-law helping. During this time all my wife and her mom had was the baby, I had everything else, groceries, baby proofing, diaper orders, anything that needed doing. I'm not saying a baby isn't hard, but I am saying I felt like I was doing "my fair share" so all she ever had to concern herself with was the baby. I thought I did a good job. I would watch the baby, change the baby, do whatever was asked of me. I think I failed because I did not OFFER enough, even though I did anything ever ASKED of me. And I hate that. I hate that a guy can fail because he couldn't read minds. How many times to offer is enough times? What if I offer more than I felt I should but less then expected by her? What offers should I make? What if I offer to do this but forget to do that? Why cant we just be ASKED to do something so we can happily get it done and feel good about getting it done for her. I want to help, but I want to know what to help with. I don't want to guess. Why are we measured on how often we asked? I once told her, "I think when I come home I will just sit in the corner of the room with you and wait for a purpose."

After that, she went back to work for about a year. During that time, her mom had to take care of her dad, so I flew my retired mom out to live with us and my mom basically took care of our daughter for about nine months (until we got home at night) while we worked. My mom also did the laundry, cooked, dishes, cleaned (even though we still had the maid), etc... while my retired Dad took care of the house. It was a nice break for me. More of the same for my wife.

At the end of that year my wife decided to quit her job, for justifiable reasons that I agree with. By this time my parents had went back home, so it was just us. With the cut in income, I cancelled the maid and cut way back on a lot of our expenses. So cleaning was also added to my to-do. I thought she would do it since she was home all the time, but it almost never happened. Maybe once a month. I thought a lot of things would happen now that she was home, (like laundry and dinners and clean bathrooms) but nothing really changed.

She talked about starting her own company and working from home. I gently warned her, to my detriment, that she would not be able to do that unless she committed to dropping my daughter off at her mom's once or twice a week. I know my daughter. She is demanding of attention. It is not possible to get more than 30 minutes to yourself when she is awake, which is from 8am to midnight (and the 30 minutes is because she wants to watch TV). The ONLY way to get anything accomplished at home, would be to drop her off. Nine months later - no new company. I did however, get heat for the warning even though it came true (because I doubted her ability to do it - which is not true, she can start a company absolutely, she is capable, just not while watching my daughter).

Regarding me time. Until I stopped her, I would be watching a show in my favorite room in the house, eating lunch or dinner and just taking an hour or two to myself. She would walk in with my daughter and my daughter would of course want to play with me. Then my wife would quietly leave for an undetermined amount of time. I would have to stop what I was doing, put down my food, stop my show, and play with my daughter (which I wanted to do, but not RIGHT THEN). Then, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half later my wife would show back up. She would go take a shower or Facebook or clean something. Basically, anytime I was working on something, my time could be hijacked at any moment. I had to stop that. It was too much for me. It was also making me feel negative towards my daughter as it came across like she was a weapon my wife would bomb me with to teach me a lesson, "How dare you have me-time" sorta thing.

I thought, maybe my wife just wants her own me-time, so let me help with that. So I tried to control that problem by offering to take my daughter in the morning on weekends so my wife can sleep in as long as she wants. I've told her MANY times, "Just tell me when you want a break and I will watch her for as loooooong as you want" just don't bomb me with her. Doesn't matter. She won't take me up on my offer, but then complains about how I am not spending enough time with my daughter, or her, or both or uses her lack of her own "me-time" to remind me of the sacrifices she makes (to my argument of all that I do). I can't win. I offer to give her me time. She doesn't take me up on it (or use her mom right down the street). Then she hits me over the head with her lack of me time.

Anyway, she has not been working for about nine months now, spending all her time with our daughter. They've went out every day (except the hottest) to the park, story time, to her mom's house to play with the kids there, the beach, shopping, places you pay for kids to play at, you name it. My role was still all the same, back office stuff, laundry, cleaning, cooking at least a few times a week, yard, house, etc... I am also responsible for ordering everything I am asked for from Amazon and researching anything that she thinks we should get for my daughter and then acquiring it.

Every once in awhile she will ask me to give her something to do (because of my complaint about my workload) but in 14 years of knowing her, of the half dozen times I have done that...it has taken so long to get done, if it ever gets done, that I stopped. Case in point, the car needed an oil change last week so I asked her to get it done. She said sure but that I need to find a place, preferably near a mall or something she can take my daughter to while they change the oil. So I had to Google research and print out the coupons and the map for her. Is that really her doing something for me? I could have just done that myself. Why not say instead, "Sure honey, don't worry about it. I'll take care of it." Done. Nope.

About four months into her nine months off, during the summer, I had to travel for work, like I do every year. My choices were to leave her and my daughter at home and do two or three round trips to the east coast (lots of wasted time/money), or bring them with me. I can work out of my parents house there for free and they could come with me to all the places I have to go work (all fun places for kids). 

We were tight on money with her not working so I used my points to fly both of them out there. We were there for almost twelve weeks. They went with me to about six locations (my daughter had a blast), we all spent SO MUCH quality time with my brother, my parents, etc.. My daughter got to travel all over the coast, go to aquariums and museums and the ocean...

I only had to work solo for about two of those twelve weeks. We also did a few date nights, went water skiing three times with friends, three BBQ's, the museums and aquariums, a train ride, a trip to NYC with my daughter, a handful of bars for happy hour, etc... It was a great trip and I got to complete all my work while still being with my family the whole time and all of the travel expenses that I would incur anyway were covered by my company. I thought win-win-win. Wrong.

Here's why...

I don't make friends easily. I don't like most people. Recently, there was one guy who is as adventurous as I once was, shares my religious and political beliefs and we got to know each other at work. My wife and I have taken trips with him and his wife twice. Over the past year (outside of the three months we were not here), as we got more comfortable with each other, he and I did the following: two trips to a casino up the street to watch an MMA PPV fight, so about four hours for each of two evenings, I helped him pickup a car he bought in Oregon (long weekend), another trip to watch an MMA fight (brought my Dad as well when he was visiting), two BBQ's at my house (big party) and my wife was there, went camping in the desert (long weekend), did a mountain bike trip (weekend), met for a beer twice (once with my wife's brother). All this over a 12 month period.

Before she quit her job and we were flush, my new friend had organized a shark diving trip in Mexico that I signed up for back in February. It was about $2,500. All paid in advance. My wife knew all about it from the moment I signed up for it. After that trip, when she quit her job, I stopped planning any trips at all because i need to save money - so this shark trip was the last "event" he and I had planned on the calendar.

The day before the trip, in fact the NIGHT before the trip (typical girl tactic from my experience), my wife decided to discuss how I am spending too much time with this guy. This led to a gigantic argument. Since I could not resolve the argument within the 12 hours she gave me, I had to cancel on my new friend, who had to go without me. I couldn't imagine spending five days out at sea and enjoying myself knowing my wife was pissed off at me. I have not heard from my new friend since - and I don't blame him. I am sure he went and had fun, but still....that was not cool. So this may also have cost me a friend, and to a guy that doesn't have any, that means a lot.

It took two more days to sort it out, but there were two issues; one is that she doesn't like that I am going to all these places with him when "I didn't do that with her." Which is not true, we collect magnets from everywhere we go and I have a magnet board the size of a refrigerator door covered solid in magnets. We've gone EVERYWHERE together. All over America, Europe, South America. We've done zip lining and white water rafting and backpacking the Grand Canyon, partied in Rio and week-long leaf peeping in New England...

I still want to do all these things with her, but she can't go until my daughter is older. When she is older, we will go again. And which trips really could she have wanted to go on? TWO. The shark trip and the desert camping. Everything else was bars, or stuff she wouldn't like like mtn biking. So this whole thing is over TWO TRIPS in a year? I don't see the problem. 

Also, in the past 14 years, I have never had a friend outside of my wife. Seriously. She's been it. I am still doing what I can with her considering my daughter. I bring both of them on long weekend family trips to have fun, on average, once every other month (we are on a limited budget now as it is). We do "happy hour" and "date night" at least once or twice a month as well. She told me she can't leave my daughter overnight anywhere, so I haven't planned any overnight trips just me and her - but apparently in this current argument she said that has changed - even though she never told me. 

Is this jealousy? Probably. But WTF? I had to blow up a bucket list trip and eat $2,500 to mea culpa a non-issue because of her jealousy? Over two trips she would have ACTUALLY went on? I don't get it. Am I wrong? Am I wrong to be unhappy and not feel resolved about it?

When she got mad that I canceled the trip and said that I was going to blame her for that I said, "Would you go on a five day trip if our daughter was sick?" She said, "No." So I said, "Well I can't go on a five day trip when my family is sick. I can't sit there and have fun knowing my marriage and my family are sick back at home."

During these wonderful discussions, she admitted she was jealous, but said I am suddenly doing all this fun stuff when I didn't before (lie, the magnet board proves it, which I mentioned), and accused me of possibly being gay (absolutely not). 

Why gay? First, because I found a guy friend after not having any for a long time and second, because I stopped having sex with her. I'm just not attracted to her now because I feel like a freaking employee. All I do is pay bills, fix the house, drive the car for them, place orders online, wash dishes, etc...Since our daughter was born, my wife has not slept back in our own bed. She moved into our daughters room making promises, about every 60 days, like clockwork, that she would "put her in her own bed soon." It's been 1.5 years now. Instead, they moved into the master bedroom where I was sleeping and I got kicked out, so I sleep in the basement now. So yeah. I don't feel like she has any interest in me to begin with, and I feel like an employee. Having sex would be like another bullet on my resume of services provided.

Sure I found a friend at a bad time. But really? Am I doing too much with him? I don't think so. Is it costing my family time with me? I don't think so. So what else can it be but jealousy? And that SUCKS.

She also said that a man has to grow up after he has a kid and pay attention to his family at least until the children are older and he can't act like he used to (again, that I am spending too much time with my new friend - but look at what we've done. Is that REALLY that much?). Then she told me it took ten years for me to get her to Europe (so now I feel like I failed on the Europe trip because I took too long) even though I was trying to do the right thing and save cash for ring, wedding, honeymoon, house.

It all got smoothed over in the end including makeup sex without any real resolution and with her telling me she loves me so much and yada yada yada but this morning I found myself sitting in a chair (in the basement) staring at the wall for a long, long time. 

I feel like it's only "okay" because she got what she wanted. The victor can afford to be magnanimous. She made me bleed out the sacrifice of a goat (my trip) on the altar of our relationship to show that I wanted to "fix" something. So was that really a resolution or just a way point until the next sacrifice has to be made? What about my lost friendship?

I was listening to this podcast yesterday and the guy was saying that men, when we do things out of love for a woman, we sorta think it's like putting money in the bank. In other words, there may come a time in the future when we might make an error, or maybe go a little too far with something, or you know..be human...and we can "cash in" on all that good faith and hard work and effort we've made. I'm not saying its intentionally done, I am just saying we expect a little "wiggle room" when we err, as humans are ought to do. If we forget to pick up milk, or got the wrong size diapers - all will be forgiven with a kiss and a smile in lieu of all the other things we get right.

That our girl will say, "Well, he's been really good to me and he tries really hard so I'm not going to get on him about this or that." But it doesn't work like that with most women. The guy on the podcast said he would do all this stuff thinking he was building credit with her and that she really loved him for it, then he would forget to do something or pickup something and it was like hell unleashed. I sorta feel like that. I am an employee and all of this work I do is totally irrelevant. It earns me nothing. I am only as good as Janet Jackson once said, "what have you done for me lately." If I make ONE mistake, or go outside the margins (margins defined by her and not communicated to me) then I will pay. Or make an altar sacrifice.

Her job is to take care of our daughter. Mine is EVERYTHING ELSE, but, all of that does not equal the value of her job. If I list everything I do, what do I hear back, "I take care of our daughter." Somehow, that wins her argument. That is my take away. That is what I stare at the wall and think about. I stare and think about not doing anything ever again. Stop paying the bills. Stop fixing the house. Stop cutting the grass. Stop ordering diapers and baby shampoo online. Stop registering the cars. Stop paying the taxes. Just sit in a bean bag at home and wait for orders to provide whatever service "really matters" for my family.

I can take care of all the bills and legal stuff and back office ops for 14 years, I can do the bulk of the laundry and the house fixing and resolve all the problems, do my share of the cooking, file all the taxes, water all the plants, hunt down and kill the rats in the backyard, and kill all the yucky spiders, but when I finally find a buddy to hang out with, and do, what I think, is not that much in an entire year, AND make sure we have enough family time by flying them with me for work and spending all that time with them and making sure they go to like a half dozen fun places for kids while I work spending my nights and weekends with just them...that that would have value. That maybe she would say, "He doesn't make friends easily, and sure this friend came at not the best time, but it's okay. I'll just talk to him about it and we'll come to an agreement." But I don't get that. I get a bomb drop.

There is no slack. It was the last trip scheduled. We had JUST gotten back from three months all together on the east coast. And she bombed it. 

Remaining caveat. Her dad invited us on two cruises since we got back from the east coast trip in early September, with my daughter. It's mid-October right now. He gave us about a two week notice both times. Two, 4-(work) day cruises. I declined both. I encouraged them to go, and she did with my daughter. First, I declined because I already had 2 trips scheduled on the calendar (both mentioned earlier in my list with my friend) that I had taken vacation time from work 8 months ago, so I could not take too much time off too close together, plus I had JUST gotten back and work had piled up unrelated to what I was working on on the east cost. Third, her dad goes on cruises CONSTANTLY, we can jump on any cruise on any given month - at some better time in the near future. But she flamed me on not going on either cruise during this argument. I was again, failing to spend time with them. Second, beyond the vacation time, to be honest, I was looking forward to the time alone. No cleaning. No house fixing. Freedom. Just movies with guns and explosions and lots of beer and popcorn. I needed the break from everyone. EVERYONE.

Also, about a month ago, my wife did bring up that my friend and I had too many trips planned. I agreed with her. I said, "These are the last two trips. I have nothing left planned, and honestly, I can't keep up with this guy, so I am going to scale it back a bit after this last trip." I thought that was enough. Clearly it was not. I still got a bomb drop the day before the trip. Then she said the only reason I stopped the trips was because of money, which is part true, but also true is that I really cannot keep up with him. He travels all the time, it's not reasonable for me to keep up. It was our first year knowing each other, I wanted to "be that guy" that could keep up with him, as a measure of good faith in the establishment of our friendship. I just wanted to be a good friend. It's been a year. Its more than I can handle, so I was already going to adjust it and we are established enough now, I think it would be fine. This reasoning was insufficient for her.

Considering the list for the past year, I figured if I cut that in half, that would be good, but honestly, I still don't think the trips I DID SCHEDULE were all that much and I thought this conversation a month ago was enough - but nope. I still had to sacrifice my last trip on the altar of our marriage and she waited until 12 hours before departure to push the red button DESPITE having had this conversation a month prior.

So...what am I? Am I unreasonable? Am I spending too much time with my new friend? Am I allowed to have friends during the first "x" years of having a child? Am I not spending enough time with my family? Am I doing something else wrong I am not even smart enough to see? What is the problem with this picture? Sometimes I feel like I just need to man up, be a cowboy, pull my hat down and "git 'er done" as they say. Other times, I feel like this is not anywhere how its supposed to be. Other times I stare at the wall and wait for something to happen.

I feel a little better. Have a good evening.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I hope the sex is great...or why bother?


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Does your post get magically smaller if you post it a third time?

Just askin'...


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

I read 80% of this, but had to skim the other 20%. Honestly, makes me glad I'm not still married. 

My advice is starting with some IC (individual counseling) and also reading the book "Co-Dependent No More." Good luck!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

the guy said:


> I hope the sex is great...or why bother?


You must have missed the part where he says he's stopped having sex with her because he's not attracted to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I can't help but feel like the wife would have her own side to this story.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Some people have already responded to this same post in a different section. You will get the best advice if you just stick to one area. It makes it difficult for people to follow your responses.

You've had this problem for over a year now as you posted last year at around the same time...what have you done to change things other than go out with your friend more?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

You didn't have to cancel the trip. That was your decision to do that so don't blame your wife. My husband does activities with a friend but they are local activities like going to a hockey game. Yes, I would be upset if he went on a trip with him because he and I haven't been on a trip in years due to having a limited budget. My husband wouldn't go on a trip with his friend. In your case you have been on many trips with your wife so she can't complain that you don't take her anywhere. I think you should have gone on the trip with your friend since you had already paid for it and she should have been fine with it.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

That is honestly the longest post I've ever seen on TAM. Any way to pare it down slightly, OP? I stopped reading two-thirds of the way through.

The part I got through: your life sounds exhausting. Between all the care-taking, housework, social events, and traveling (not to mention your job) I think I would be in the middle of a nervous breakdown from stress and exhaustion.

I hope you get some good advice 

P.S. The long weekend in Oregon, the long weekend camping, the weekend bike trip, and then a $2,500 shark diving trip (not to mention various sporting events, cookouts, and trips to the casino) DOES sound like a bit much to me, especially with someone who you haven't know that long.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

lifeistooshort said:


> You must have missed the part where he says he's stopped having sex with her because he's not attracted to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


WELL YA!
Hell I miss crap when a post is one paragraph ...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm not attracted to my hand but we still have sex!


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

You let your kid run your life. There's no reason why a two year old stays up until midnight. Start putting her to bed at 7. Yes, it will be a hell ride of resistance from her, but she will get used to it.

If you don't fix this, it just doesn't magically get better. She doesn't grow into a routine. You make the routine for her.

You'd be surprised hw much of your life you'd get back.

As for the trips....can't really comment on that.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

You should have gone on the shark diving trip. Yes, it was calculated and b*tchy for your W to start nagging 12 hours before. But why did you succumb to her tactics? You know she has a good life and that your child is well provided for. You should have gone and enjoyed yourself.

Your life sounds like a singular mixture of financial luxury and emotional misery.

Don't do all the stuff you do. See what happens. You will continue to be taken for granted unless you pull the rug out from underneath her.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

I'm on your side for all but this section 

Regarding me time. Until I stopped her, I would be watching a show in my favorite room in the house, eating lunch or dinner and just taking an hour or two to myself. She would walk in with my daughter and my daughter would of course want to play with me. Then my wife would quietly leave for an undetermined amount of time. I would have to stop what I was doing, put down my food, stop my show, and play with my daughter (which I wanted to do, but not RIGHT THEN). Then, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half later my wife would show back up. She would go take a shower or Facebook or clean something. Basically, anytime I was working on something, my time could be hijacked at any moment. I had to stop that. It was too much for me. It was also making me feel negative towards my daughter as it came across like she was a weapon my wife would bomb me with to teach me a lesson, "How dare you have me-time" sorta thing.

It would be strange to me if my H went and sat in a room by himself to eat dinner and watch tv instead of together as a family. You don't have to play with a 2 year old just because they are in the room, they can play on the floor while you both watch some TV and she can eat/play with their food at the highchair while you eat together for dinner. It's family time. As a parent, your time can be hijacked at any moment regardless, it's just how it goes. 

The whole book some time with you when you can watch your daughter sounds like babysitting, not parenting together. Just be a team. Whoever is closest to the kid when they need something does it, whoever isn't busy with something takes over, you both come and go for showers or 30 minutes of whatever and the other is there.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Is it just me, or are aspiring novelists now posting on TAM? 

And I thought War and Peace was a bit long ....


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

@ Prodigal

Sorry. I let it build up over time and just vomit every thought I have. I dont like seeking advice, I assume i can work it out myself, otherwise each of these incidents could have been only a paragraph spread out all year.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

@ the guy

It is, when it happens. Hard for itto hapen when i live in the basement and they movedinto the master bedroom.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

@Starzz21

I thought i only posted this once. I posted an issue a year ago if thats what you mean. If it appeared on another thread, that was an accident. I hit preview and got logged out of the account while i was writing it, i was not sure if it had posted or not. When i checked i didnt see it so i assumed it had not posted. Anyway, a mistake, not intentional.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

@ lifeistooshort

Possible, but my post is so long because I was trying to capture everything. If i just said my wife bombed my trip because she said i dont spend enough time with her, I think the questions would be voluminous from everyone. I dont hang out with friends, i dont play video games, i have no hobbies of any kind. Basicslly if i am not at work then i am either working at home, cleaning or some house duty, watching my daughter, having dinner or reading (typically after everyone goes to bed). Thats it. Im not mean to her. I dont call her names, we get along rather well actually and when we have fun we have a lot of fun....its just this segregation of duties problem where on a regular basis i get whacked.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

It was no mistake, You posted almost the exact same problem a year ago and responded a few times to the thread.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/129098-i-dont-know-what-my-wife-wants.html

So what have you done to change things in the last 12 months?


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

He also posted this same post twice on the same day:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/227010-no-responses-no-problem-i-just-need-vent.html


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What you need to be doing is reading, in this order, on your Kindle:
No More Mr Nice Guy
Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.
Married Man Sex Life Primer

And in the meantime, KEEP seeing your friends, STOP doing all the work for the family, and START giving her things to do.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> He also posted this same post twice on the same day:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/227010-no-responses-no-problem-i-just-need-vent.html


Yes, this was the mistake part. That was an accident. I read the rules and it said no posting in multiple areas, so I decided to change it from the men's are to the general forum. But I did not know it posted.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

turnera said:


> What you need to be doing is reading, in this order, on your Kindle:
> No More Mr Nice Guy
> Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.
> Married Man Sex Life Primer
> ...


:iagree:

She is only doing these things because you allow it.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> He also posted this same post twice on the same day:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/227010-no-responses-no-problem-i-just-need-vent.html


That is amazing. That is truly almost the exact same problem, almost exactly a year later.

We really have not fought in that time. It was this new element of my "friend" which was not part of the last post that melted down the reactor core.

Right before this argument, about two days before, I brought up all my issues from the first post again and my wife agreed with me that they were all valid - after a day of being stubborn. So I thought, "Hey, this is real progress - she agrees and she's going to work on it." And I felt happier. 

48 hours later, she brings up the friend thing - and creates this whole new narrative and part of me just can't help but think it was intentional. I call her out on some problems, she agrees and says she's sorry, then 48 hours later she calls me out on a problem she has with me, and now I am on the defensive and she is sort of released from her prior apology and agreement to improve. I dont know. Could be a stupid idea.

Thats just what it feels like.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. book is specifically about the balance between the fun you want to have (and deserve to have) and the obligations you have for your wife and family.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> What you need to be doing is reading, in this order, on your Kindle:
> No More Mr Nice Guy
> Hold On To Your N.U.T.S.
> Married Man Sex Life Primer
> ...


I sent samples to my Kindle for all three. Will read. Thank you for the references. The reviews and description looks good, I think they will be great for me.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> The Hold On To Your N.U.T.S. book is specifically about the balance between the fun you want to have (and deserve to have) and the obligations you have for your wife and family.


Downloaded. Can't wait to read it. I think this is core to my problem.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> It was no mistake, You posted almost the exact same problem a year ago and responded a few times to the thread.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/129098-i-dont-know-what-my-wife-wants.html
> 
> So what have you done to change things in the last 12 months?


I tried to increase the time I spend as a family. My parents were here for a time after the holidays, so we did some long weekend trips where my mom could babysit and we could go out, including Palm Springs and Las Vegas and Pebble Beach. I added more day trips with them to various more local places as well, but the biggest change was taking them with me for the three months while I worked.

Typically, pre-child, I would leave for two weeks or so, come back for a couple weeks, leave again, and repeat a few times to get all the work done. This time I took them with me.

My OTHER OPTION, was to go by myself and enjoy myself. I have a friend there with a house on a lake who has no kids. I have family. I could sleep as much as I want, go where I want, do what I want. I'd be free. But if the problem was that I was not spending enough time with my family, then that was not going to help. I decided to bring them everywhere I went. 

I was also terrified of bringing a two year old on a 10 hour plane trip. This alone was enough for me NOT to choose this route. I had visions of a screaming child for every minute we were in the air and I had always hated when people did that since I fly so often. I didn't want to be that guy. But I overrode that fear as well for the greater good of spending more time with my family.

It just feels like, since I spent SOME time with my friend, and not 100% of my time with my family, I still lost, despite my effort to increase more family time by bringing them with me.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The thing about the friend, is that you DO deserve to have friends, and do things with them, as long as you are first meeting your responsibilities for the family. And also that, once you DO make plans with you friend, for God's sake, STOP BOWING OUT OF THEM. Your wife loses all respect for you when you do that. Not to mention you lose all your friends. So what if you go on your trip and she's home mad? It was a legitimate trip and she tried to guilt you. That's HER problem.

Of course, that said, is SHE getting to do things with her friends, too?


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> The thing about the friend, is that you DO deserve to have friends, and do things with them, as long as you are first meeting your responsibilities for the family. And also that, once you DO make plans with you friend, for God's sake, STOP BOWING OUT OF THEM. Your wife loses all respect for you when you do that. Not to mention you lose all your friends. So what if you go on your trip and she's home mad? It was a legitimate trip and she tried to guilt you. That's HER problem.
> 
> Of course, that said, is SHE getting to do things with her friends, too?


She is, yes - but I guess I'd have to qualify that. She very rarely does anything solo and like me, she has a problem making friends. 

In the past week she has had two "play dates" with another family member in our peer group that has a son about the same age. They spent a half day together each time at a kiddie play land type thing.

She did go out to meet her local friend for drinks a few days ago, for maybe 4 or 5 hours which she has done a couple times this year. A different friend of hers has come down twice from the Northwest so far this year, and they have gone out for drinks, including once last week. Her cousin was just here from San Francisco and she went out with her just two days ago.

I always support and encourage this, but I can't make her hang out with people, of course.

When we were on the east coast, I made sure we got down to NYC to visit her friend (who also has a toddler). I also told her she should just go down for fun while I have to work solo for a week (she can leave my daughter with my mom who took care of her for months when she visited us) so the two of them could go drink or party or whatever. She agreed, but she never did it.

She has friends in other parts of the country that would fly and stay with us that she could go out with, but she never pulls the trigger on making it happen even though I encourage it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, as long as you're encouraging her, she can't UNencourage you.


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## Sunrise73 (Oct 10, 2013)

turnera said:


> Well, as long as you're encouraging her, she can't UNencourage you.


Her argument would be that going out for drinks is not the same thing as a long weekend in the desert or five days in the Pacific with sharks.

It just seems like I need to ask permission for exactly what is allowed and what isn't. How many times can I have drinks with friends? How many days can I spend out of town with friends? Are there any activities (besides the obvious) with friends that are not allowed? That's how it seems. And I would want to write it all down and hang it on the refrigerator just so I could plan my life without nervously waiting for her to throw a penalty flag down on a rule I didn't know about.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Dude, really. Just STOP. 

She is SPOILED. And YOU have done it. Now, I'm not saying she's a bad person at all. ANYone in her position would probably get spoiled. 

You cook. You clean. You work. You cater to her every whim. She has ZERO responsibility. She gets to do what she wants 100% of the time.

Where can I sign up for a gig like this?

Bottom line is you HAVE to establish boundaries. Sure, it's easier to cave then to hear her whine (and she will whine and likely do LOTS worse when you first start establishing FIRM boundaries.) 

But you HAVE to do this. Your marriage will not survive her sense of entitlement. It won't be easy to stand up and take control from her, but its ESSENTIAL.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

*"I warned her before my daughter was born, for the first year, I wasn't going to be that interested in the infant stage. To me, an infant is basically a crying, sleeping, babbling, pooping, drooling organism. There would be no ooooh and awwwww from me. Now my baby is 2 and I love her to death, just like I knew I would once she could engage with me. She is fascinating and the love of my life...NOW. But not before, and I knew it would be that way. Anyway, I got flak for even warning her, let alone that it came to be true, but that's not the point of this post."*

You just shouldn't have had kids and left her instead.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sunrise73 said:


> It just seems like I need to ask permission for exactly what is allowed and what isn't.


Once you read NMMNG, you will understand why this one sentence is so outrageously AWFUL for you to say.

You don't have to ask her permission for ANYTHING. That is NOT a healthy dynamic and the more you do it, the more she decides she's entitled to it. 

Be a man. Lead your family. Tell your wife that you WILL be going on the trips you need to go on. Get her to respect you again.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> *You just shouldn't have had kids and left her instead.*


The little girl is here now; God Bless her. But, I can't help but agree that OP probably should not have become a father. Even though he loves his daughter very much - which is great.

OP, you probably should not have had kids. Or maybe you should have waited a bit longer. Maybe the old biological clock was ticking for your wife and you couldn't wait?

I applaud you being as loving as you are to your child. A lot of men who have your type of view on kids, might have silently withdrawn and remained a remote, cold father figure.

Please accept my apologies if this post seems to suggest that your daughter shouldn't exist. That is NOT what I am saying.

I just believe that people who do not want to have kids,shouldn't be pressed upon to have them.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

OP:

try this for the next year - 
fight with her a lot less often (disengage), and tell her "no" a lot more often. then reassess the relationship....


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

Hi Sunrise,

Wow, there is so much here. I want to commend you on the effort and care you show your family. It is clear that you really, really want to shine as a husband and father. 

I think Turnera's book list is completely on-target. It's not that you don't put forth the effort or care; your problems are mostly due to misapplication of them, IMO.

Once you're through with Turnera's list, I recommend His Needs Her Needs for Parents and Love Busters, both by Dr Harley. The books recommended by the wise Mrs. T will help you from a male perspective; HNHN and LB will help you on the romantic front. 

I pulled a few select items below and want to offer you an interpretation as a wife and mom on what your wife may be trying to communicate to you. I could be way off, since I am not your wife and all people are individuals. But usually there are trends in what people do, and I want to throw out these as potentials.



Sunrise73 said:


> Regarding me time. Until I stopped her, I would be watching a show in my favorite room in the house, eating lunch or dinner and just taking an hour or two to myself. She would walk in with my daughter and my daughter would of course want to play with me. Then my wife would quietly leave for an undetermined amount of time. *I would have to stop what I was doing, put down my food, stop my show, and play with my daughter* (which I wanted to do, but not RIGHT THEN). Then, anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour and a half later my wife would show back up.


This cracks me up- I did this but was MUCH more vocal about it while I was staying home with our infant son. 

As soon as my husband got home, I'd hand off our son to him and go out. Out anywhere- to the grocery store, to Walmart, for a walk, just for a drive in the car. Anywhere to get some space.

Re the bold: you have just described the life of a SAH parent of a young kid, day in, day out. Your life revolves around them. 

Personally, I don't know any parent of a young child who gets 1-2 hours/day on their own to do what they want. Eat on your own? Watch your TV show? Yeah, not until the baby/little one is in bed.



> She would go take a shower or Facebook or clean something. Basically, anytime I was working on something, my time could be hijacked at any moment. I had to stop that. It was too much for me. *It was also making me feel negative towards my daughter as it came across like she was a weapon my wife would bomb me with to teach me a lesson, "How dare you have me-time" sorta thing.*


She might have been trying to teach you a lesson. That's a pretty negative assumption, though. I suspect that your wife just needed some time to get a shower or hop online uninterrupted.

Re: the bold- this is a theme I have noticed in your post here and in the one from last year. You love your child but she is not convenient. You are trying to live your life and your child and wife are interrupting. 

Even your terminology is harsh. When your wife wants you to handle your little one, you call it "bombing". 

No offense, but I call this "parenting". This is basic parenthood. Kids are not convenient. They are needy, especially <2 years old.

Here is another example: 



> I thought, maybe my wife just wants her own me-time, so let me help with that. So I tried to control that problem by offering to take my daughter in the morning on weekends so my wife can sleep in as long as she wants. I've told her MANY times, *"Just tell me when you want a break and I will watch her for as loooooong as you want" just don't bomb me with her. *


What does this mean? What do you mean by "bombing"? It just seems like any time that isn't pre-planned is "bombing" when really, what is pre-planned? Being ready and able and expecting to be available is just 2014 Parenting IMO.

Unlike your wife, I work. But in the evenings (except for nights like tonight, where my MIL has our son and my husband is working) my DH and I care for our son together. There is not an expectation that only one of us will be in charge. 

We communicate and work it out between us at the time. He needs a shower- I will take over. I need some time to do XXX, he will take over. *So I am not knocking your need for time and space; I just know that your wife needs it as well.
*
My husband has also offered to let me sleep in. I appreciate the offer, and on rare occasion take him up on it.

But really- I normally wake up at the same time as our son. It's not a hardship.

And- allowing the spouse to sleep in on the weekend is not the same as a day-to-day parenting partnership.



> Doesn't matter. She won't take me up on my offer, but then complains about how I am not spending enough time with my daughter, or her, or both or uses her lack of her own "me-time" to remind me of the sacrifices she makes (to my argument of all that I do). I can't win. I offer to give her me time. She doesn't take me up on it (or use her mom right down the street). Then she hits me over the head with her lack of me time.


This quote is pretty much just a list of disrespectful judgments. You think she should be doing XXX and she thinks you don't appreciate what she is doing. She has a big part here, too- don't get me wrong. 

But- if you ditch the judgments you will probably come down to this: Neither of you are communicating well and both of you feel unappreciated. 

Do you think that is a fair statement?



> The day before the trip, in fact the NIGHT before the trip (typical girl tactic from my experience), my wife decided to discuss how I am spending too much time with this guy. This led to a gigantic argument. Since I could not resolve the argument within the 12 hours she gave me, *I had to cancel on my new friend,* who had to go without me. I couldn't imagine spending five days out at sea and enjoying myself knowing my wife was pissed off at me. I have not heard from my new friend since - and I don't blame him. I am sure he went and had fun, but still....that was not cool. So this may also have cost me a friend, and to a guy that doesn't have any, that means a lot.


You've already heard about this issue from many people already; I'll just be one more voice.

I think it is admirable that you didn't want to go because it ticked off your wife; at the same time, that doesn't mean that she "made" you do this and it doesn't mean that she "cost" you the friendship.

You are a grown man and you made the decision that you thought was best at the time. That is yours to own.



> It took two more days to sort it out, but there were two issues; one is that she doesn't like that I am going to all these places with him when "I didn't do that with her." Which is not true, we collect magnets from everywhere we go and I have a magnet board the size of a refrigerator door covered solid in magnets. We've gone EVERYWHERE together. All over America, Europe, South America. We've done zip lining and white water rafting and backpacking the Grand Canyon, partied in Rio and week-long leaf peeping in New England...
> 
> I still want to do all these things with her, but she can't go until my daughter is older. When she is older, we will go again. And which trips really could she have wanted to go on? TWO. The shark trip and the desert camping. Everything else was bars, or stuff she wouldn't like like mtn biking. So this whole thing is over TWO TRIPS in a year? I don't see the problem.


I read this and I just see: your wife has a strong emotional need for Family Commitment.

You say you just can't do it with her until your daughter is older.

There are so many of us who just wouldn't do it then, until we can do it as a family. I am talking about men and women. My husband has taken a weekend here and there for his hobby; I've been gone for a week for work. But for our free-time, our family is our highest pleasure and neither one of us would ditch our family for a week for a friend "vacation".

When I hear your wife asking you to be home, I just think your wife really wants you to be All-In as a family man, and right now, you are just not that guy. You love your daughter but you are very far from being "All in" the way she wants you to be .

Here is a little bit about the emotional need of Family Commitment:

"We all want our children to be successful, but if you have the need for family commitment, your spouse's participation in family activities that guarantee that outcome will deposit so many love units that it will trigger your feeling of love for him or her. And your spouse's neglect of your children will threaten that love."

Family Commitment

I see that you love your daughter, but overall you present it as she is something that gets in the way of the life you want to live. You don't blame her, though- you blame your wife. 

You do "everything else" and your wife could at least make sure that you can live your life as you want to and only deal with your daughter when you want to. 

I don't know if that is how you mean it, but that is how I read what you're saying.

I also did not take our young son out to nice restaurants; we waited until our son was almost 4 before we took him on a plane. I share your same sentiments as a frequent traveler re: young children on planes.

The difference is that neither my husband nor I wanted to go do these things without the other. Three years is a short time in the long run. We are in this together.

I think *your wife has VERY large contributions* to the current mess, don't get me wrong. But holy smokes, I can see how you guys are in the place you're in. You are barely in the same book, let alone on the same page.

I strongly believe you are not doing anything intentionally harmful to you, your wife, your daughter, or your family. I think you are putting forth tremendous effort to ensure the well-being of all. 

None of us get a "How To" instructional when we fall in love, get married, have kids. But today we have the internet (and you've reached out here- well done!), plus books and much more knowledge. I firmly believe you can turn this around.

In your title you state "Why I am not good enough"; you feel this way now, but after some more education I suspect your perspective will be very different. You actually are doing a ton; it's just that you and your wife are not meeting each other's emotional needs (His Needs, Her Needs) AND you are a Nice Guy (No More Mister Nice Guy), trying to please your wife (YAY!!!! But read "Hang On to your N.U.T.S). 

I hope you stick around and share your journey. Best of luck to you!


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