# Advice on recent infidelity



## leprachaun3401 (Oct 1, 2015)

So my wife and I have been married for about 4 years happily. We are planning to relocate to another state from our current home. We decided that I would move a month before her to establish a rental agreement on a home as we found it difficult to find a place without being physically in the city. And it worked out perfect because I found a job in the new city where we will be living and she is the maid of honor in a wedding that will take place in a few weeks back home. So I am out here working while she has been tending to her maid of honor obligations. Their bachelorette party was this past weekend and a few days after the party she confessed to me that she had made out with the bride. I absolutely do not know how to respond to this. I feel mildly upset and extremely confused. Should I question her loyalty, sexuality, or fidelity? She says she was drunk but cannot articulate emotions or tell me why she did it. She was crying and crying on the phone apologetically. She says she loves me and doesn’t want to lose me and I believe her. But how do I move on from here? What should I do? On top of everything I am expected to attend the wedding next month


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Ugh? So sorry, you must be really confused by this. The fact that she has confessed immediately means she wants to put things right with you and probably feels awful about her stupidity. I dont know what 'made out' means, kissing? Seems like she was very drunk (though no excuse) but I would suggest she go for IC to see exactly why she did something like this. Is she Bi?

Then you might want to go for MC, there is obviously some things between you that need to be sorted. it could just simply be a 'dare' that got out of hand or the fact that you are away for some time. I find younger people (you sound young) often push the boundaries a little, messing around especially when intoxicated. She sobered up and realised. 

Things ought be be ok


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

aine said:


> I find younger people (you sound young) often push the boundaries a little, messing around especially when intoxicated. She sobered up and realised.
> 
> Things ought be be ok


This is my first reaction, too, although I'm not trying to downplay it. Did she tell you the circumstances under which it happened? Did she tell you how the bride felt about it? Was there an audience? 

She sounds very remorseful, which is good. There are many, many women who wouldn't think anything of it at all I'm sure!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*There appears to be a notable absence of deception as well as premeditation here. I would say that by her "confessing" right up front to you, speaks volumes to you, at least in that regard!

Effectively, she deserves to have you in her corner while getting her second chance. But she should know by now that it has a price, as she will now be on a rather short leash!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Is this your first time away from her since you were married? How long was this absence before her "make-out" session? I'd have little use for a partner who couldn't remain faithful for a few weeks of separation? In this story, what does "make-out" actually entail?
If the first time you found yourself away from your wife, you ended up engaging in sodomy or near-sodomy with a guy, would your wife have reason to be concerned? It would suggest to me that you were not exactly committed to the marriage and that you weren't entirely sure that you were a heterosexual. When people spontaneously "confess" to one thing it is frequently to conceal larger transgressions. I've been drunk quite a few times but alcohol never caused me to be sexually attracted to a guy or to anyone I wouldn't have been at least somewhat sexually attracted to while sober. 
What a lucky guy is the fellow who is about to marry a woman who made out with a married woman just days before her wedding.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Erm what's with the difference if its making out with a guy or a girl ?

I would be seriously considering my future with a wife of only a few years and the first chance she gets away from you she cheats

Lets hope it was just the one and not a few that 'got drunk'....possible small confession to cover a larger

The least you can do is inform the husband


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Leprechaun,

Neither you nor your wife should attend this wedding, you need to go no contact with this OW for life, and possibly others in this social group.

I would also inform the groom that his future wife has cheated on him before he even got married. Do not let him take the vows without knowing the truth. There is no way a maid of honor who had sex with his wife should be present at his wedding. 

Kissing is the most intimate kind of physical affair, there is no downplaying this, and is now known to be dangerous please see link.

Human papillomavirus (HPV) and Oropharyngeal Cancer | Sexually Transmitted Diseases | CDC

There is a very good chance there was breast play and etc and you don't have the full truth, waywards like to minimize. 

Tamat


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Did you have any idea that your wife was attracted to women? I would think that something like that should have been brought out by her before you got married.

It comes down to this. She cheated on you and I for one am so sick of hearing that it's always blamed on being drunk. It's a great excuse to wheel out and it doesn't hold water.

Just for the hell of it, I would take her for a polygraph and find out if this is the first time or have there been other times and you didn't know. For all you know this might not be the first time and if she's bi and didn't tell you, it's another lie. 

Whatever you do, don't rug sweep this mess. "Tamat" made a good point. You and your wife should not be at that wedding. It can have all the makings for a real uncomfortable day. I would tell her to drop out of the wedding and if the bride or your wife gets pissy about it, then let the them know that neither one of them have any honor so it's no big loss. Maybe you should inform the groom and save him from a huge mistake.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

No way I would be going to a wedding where someone my wife just cheated with was getting married. Your wife shouldn't go either.

Sorry but fvcking around on your marriage has high costs.

Does the groom know?

Are you certain you have the whole story? Was there male entertainment?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

I think there is a big difference between it being with another woman vs. a man. Right off the bat, being playful and suggestive with other women is pretty widely tolerated, often encouraged, and not typically seen as a serious indicator of one's sexuality. I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong. It's not uncommon when a bunch of people get together drinking a lot and someone starts encouraging two women to touch each other suggestively, kiss, etc. So if that was the situation, within a group of people, full of alcohol, right before the woman is about to get married (thus feels somewhat inclined to get a little crazy right beforehand), and it was just some brief kissing/making out, then it PROBABLY isn't a big deal.

Again, that doesn't make it right. As a married woman, she still probably shouldn't engage in that, though I suppose I can imagine some folks feeling differently. The biggest factor here is that she decided to tell you pretty quickly and seek your forgiveness. You didn't find out from a friend, she wasn't dismissive of it or your feelings about it, and it sounds like she's willing to do more to prove her loyalty/dedication to you.

If it had happened with the groom for example, then that would be a big deal, and totally different. I'm married to a woman, so I know with 100% certainty that there is really absolutely, without question, NO excuse for ever kissing another woman under any circumstances. She being married to you, a man, surely has the same exact understanding about other men. Even being drunk or surrounded by other drunk people goading her on would not be an excuse. As a woman however, in that situation, being pressured to briefly kiss another woman who is about to get married? I think our (American anyway) society will, by and large, be a little more forgiving of that scenario.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

unbelievable said:


> you ended up engaging in sodomy or near-sodomy with a guy, would your wife have reason to be concerned?


To us non-politically correct, strong hetro boys, it ain't the same thing. And most guys know it. Two chicks getting it on will cause many of us to do a least little rubber necking. Two guys getting it on causes us to look the other way and wish we'd never seen it. 
I'm speaking only myself and telling it like it I see it my man.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> To us non-politically correct, strong hetro boys, it ain't the same thing. And most guys know it. Two chicks getting it on will cause many of us to do a least little rubber necking. Two guys getting it on causes us to look the other way and wish we'd never seen it.
> I'm speaking only myself and telling it like it I see it my man.


I'm not sure that one brand of disloyalty is really better than another. My wife having sex with some woman or some other man would still bother me. I might find it somewhat stimulating to see a topless woman in a bar but I'd have a totally different reaction if the woman was my wife, my daughter, or my mother.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

I'm wondering if she and the bride tag teamed the male stripper and the "make out" was them kissing while in a FFM.

I call BS on her and bride only. And yeah there would need to be another to stand in as wife and I will not be attending. She has a poly scheduled for that date/time to see if a male stripper was involved, bet there was.

And any other women there who knew what was going on and did not stop it.

Like Ultimate Sucker's wife of 35 yrs. With her bride sister also gave head to the 22 yr old male stripper at the batchellorette party.
He was divorcing her could not get by fact their son is that age. The bride is pissed he will not overlook her sister sucking this boy off in front of the others at the party.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> No way I would be going to a wedding where someone my wife just cheated with was getting married. Your wife shouldn't go either.
> 
> Sorry but fvcking around on your marriage has high costs.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.



Divinely Favored said:


> I'm wondering if she and the bride tagvteamed the male stripper and the "make out" was them kissing while in a FFM.


Entirely possible.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Well everything is possible. She could have had a full blown orgy at the party, or maybe Bill Cosby showed up and she went down on him. I just don't see how there is remotely any evidence to give cause to actually believe any of these other scenarios actually happened. Tag teamed a male stripper? Where did that come from. The OP didn't say anything about there being any strippers, male or female, or doing anything with him/them, or anyone else other than kissing the bride for that matter.

Isn't it fair to say that this isn't at all a typical "cheating spouse" scenario? That in this type of situation, many, if not most people (>50%) would not find this to be a big deal, especially if she handles it the right way after the fact? Again I'm not saying what she did was ok/acceptable, I'm just seeing a lot of people jump to some pretty extreme conclusions and reactions, and I'm pretty surprised.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Leprechaun,

Your W's excessive emotions are a very strong indication that there was a lot more to this than she is letting you know. I have to agree with the other posters that your W may have performed oral on a male stripper, she also likely kissed girls.

Your W is pleading guilt to a lesser charge. Polygraph her.

The only way you should go to the wedding is to hand out leaflets describing the batchlorette party and your wifes/brides role in it to her grand parents, siblings and parents.

Tamat


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Given the scant amount of substantive information here it is very difficult to extrapolate cause, intent or any viable reasoning on the part of your wife. All we can do is offer WAGs to fill in the missing data. On the face of it I would conclude the following; your wife is bi or bi curious. Her boundaries are weak to very weak. Her regard for you and your marriage is questionable. Her choice in friends is questionable. Conversely, she did show conscience in that she immediately confessed and was apologetic and seemingly remorseful.

Now you also mentioned alcohol and if we are to assume that this was all alcohol induced (unlikely) then she should be considered alcohol intolerant and should never drink if she wants to remain chaste and married since it is apparent that alcohol causes her to lose all inhibition and behave in a manner inconsistent with her sober values. That is my take from the information given.

As to attending the wedding, that is a decision you will have to make based on the "depth" of the encounter. the motive and the residual "feelings" about the whole thing. Are they in love? How old is the "friendship"? Things of that nature.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Define 'making out.'

Define what boundaries are in your relationship.

How do you feel about it? How does she?


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> Entirely possible.


If a male stripper was present, its likely.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> I just don't see how there is remotely any evidence to give cause to actually believe any of these other scenarios actually happened. Tag teamed a male stripper? Where did that come from.


I've been in this type business. I'd bet good money if a male stripper was involved, and the bride, et al was diddling with the stripper, and she was kissing the bride, she was diddling with the stripper. That's the way these things work. Women are either watching or participating. By her own admission, she was participating.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

ThePheonix said:


> I've been in this type business. I'd bet good money if a male stripper was involved, and the bride, et al was diddling with the stripper, and she was kissing the bride, she was diddling with the stripper. That's the way these things work. Women are either watching or participating. By her own admission, she was participating.


But... there hasn't been any mention of a stripper at all, male or female. Someone else here actually suggested that he attend the wedding and immediately try to ruin it for the couple by sharing with all of the guests how the bride and his wife had cheated on them via oral sex with male strippers. Based on enormous assumptions from one small paragraph, which involved nothing about strippers or oral sex, these people should be utterly and completely humiliated on their wedding day? That's how guilty everyone is?

It's just astounding the kinds of advice some people will offer to real people that can produce dire consequences, when they know so incredibly little information about the situation.

It's one thing to ask question about something like, "Were there strippers involved? Male or female? More than one?" but many folks here seem to just be outright assuming it's true, and that OP's wife naturally must have been sexual with them too. I just can't figure out the assumptions.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

leprachaun3401 said:


> So my wife and I have been married for about 4 years happily. We are planning to relocate to another state from our current home. We decided that I would move a month before her to establish a rental agreement on a home as we found it difficult to find a place without being physically in the city. And it worked out perfect because I found a job in the new city where we will be living and she is the maid of honor in a wedding that will take place in a few weeks back home. So I am out here working while she has been tending to her maid of honor obligations. Their bachelorette party was this past weekend and a few days after the party she confessed to me that she had made out with the bride. I absolutely do not know how to respond to this. I feel mildly upset and extremely confused. Should I question her loyalty, sexuality, or fidelity? She says she was drunk but cannot articulate emotions or tell me why she did it. She was crying and crying on the phone apologetically. She says she loves me and doesn’t want to lose me and I believe her. But how do I move on from here? What should I do? On top of everything I am expected to attend the wedding next month


OP,

The fact that your wife _'confessed'_ may indicate genuine remorse, or it may be nothing more than damage control (i.e., that she knew you would find out so she figured it would be better for her if she told you her version first). Hence, I am with the others who say you should not accept her confession as necessarily accurate or complete and instead should try to verify what happened, perhaps by speaking to others who attended the bachelorette party.

That she cheated with a woman rather than a man is no less cause for concern since, in addition to casting doubt on her capacity to remain faithful in the future, it raises the question of her sexual orientation. Thus, in some ways it is worse because, from now on, you will wonder what is going on between her and her female friends.

As to what you should do, please be aware that reconciliation involves two downsides. One is the emotional pain involved and the other is the risk of failure. Failure involves three costs: the pain of the failed reconciliation, the pain and costs of the subsequent divorce and the time wasted that could have been put to recovering and finding a better mate. Hence, reconciliation should not be undertaken lightly.

IMO, the only good reasons for reconciling in the event of infidelity are children and religious reasons. If you have no kids and if you are not morally opposed to divorce, then you need to consider what you gain from reconciling that you couldn't also gain with less risk by finding another life partner, one who doesn't cheat and doesn't _'like'_ other women.

Whatever you decide to do, take your time and base your decision on clear thinking rather than emotions. That probably means waiting a few months at least before making any decision, in order to give yourself time to get your emotions under control.

Finally, I agree with the others that your wife needs to withdraw from the wedding ceremony and that the groom needs to be informed about what happened. Her ready willingness to withdraw will be a good indicator that her remorse is genuine. Your summoning the courage to tell the groom will be a good indicator that you realize the seriousness of what has happened.

Good luck.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think the first question is if she really has sexual interests in women or not. If she does your marriage could be done even if she was apologetic on the phone. I would be really worried at this point if this was a really wild mistake or she was acting out on a real desire that came to the surface when drunk. I think that I would have a real honest discussion with her about whether she has interests in women.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I think OP needs to establish the CONTEXT in which the kiss occurred. 

Two drunk women at an all girls party, kissing in front of the other women to cheers and laughing? Not a big deal in our modern hedonistic times. 

Now... if they were intertwined and touching tonsils in a loveseat, in the dark, in a back room, away from the other hens? Bad news.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

bandit.45 said:


> I think OP needs to establish the CONTEXT in which the kiss occurred.
> 
> Two drunk women at an all girls party, kissing in front of the other women to cheers and laughing? Not a big deal in our modern hedonistic times.
> 
> Now... if they were intertwined and touching tonsils in a loveseat, in the dark, in a back room, away from the other hens? Bad news.


In his first post, the OP said his wife admitted to having _"made out"_ with the bride. While the term leaves room for interpretation, it suggests more than kissing.

Perhaps the OP would be so good as to clarify the extent of the making out.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> But... there hasn't been any mention of a stripper at all, male or female. Someone else here actually suggested that he attend the wedding and immediately try to ruin it for the couple by sharing with all of the guests how the bride and his wife had cheated on them via oral sex with male strippers. Based on enormous assumptions from one small paragraph, which involved nothing about strippers or oral sex, these people should be utterly and completely humiliated on their wedding day? That's how guilty everyone is?
> 
> It's just astounding the kinds of advice some people will offer to real people that can produce dire consequences, when they know so incredibly little information about the situation.
> 
> It's one thing to ask question about something like, "Were there strippers involved? Male or female? More than one?" but many folks here seem to just be outright assuming it's true, and that OP's wife naturally must have been sexual with them too. I just can't figure out the assumptions.


Couple things. Cheaters lie. It is called trickle truth.

Making out with someone at a party is bad enough on it's own. The groom should be aware and if he doesn't care? Fine. At least he knows.

Also. A party where the maid of honor is getting hot and heavy with the bride is no less wild than getting close and personal with a stripper.

OP should keep digging until he is satisfied he has the truth.

His wife blew up her part in the wedding and the bride endangered her marriage unless she is marrying a buffoon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> His wife blew up her part in the wedding and the bride endangered her marriage unless she is marrying a buffoon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 Or the brides husband knows his wife is bi and is cool with it.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> But... there hasn't been any mention of a stripper at all, male or female.


There may not have been a stripper. I'm saying if there was one, it may be a little more comprehensive than a couple of girls kissing. As the matron of honor, she coordinated planning for the bachelorette party.


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## leprachaun3401 (Oct 1, 2015)

From the OP
Thank you all for your insight, advice and recommendations, and for some comic relief, AKA Bill Cosby showing up to the bachelorette party with male entertainment. LOL. 
I have scrolled through the majority of the post and pulled certain questions I would like to answer clarify. Please continue to post more as I am regularly checking this thread. 

*Did she tell you the circumstances under which it happened? Did she tell you how the bride felt about it? Was there an audience?*
From my understanding, I don’t know the exact location I know they were going out on the town. So I think were either at a bar or a club, but it happened in the girls bathroom and she was waiting for the OW. The OW came out of the stall gave her a kiss on the cheek and my wife turned gave her a kiss on the mouth and there was physical hand contact on genitalia and breasts, lasting approximately a minute.

*Is this your first time away from her since you were married? How long was this absence before her "make-out" session?*
This has been the first time we have been physically apart since we have been married. I have been gone for 2 weeks. 

*Did you have any idea that your wife was attracted to women?*
I had no clue she was attracted to women. 

*Does the groom know?
*I don’t know if the groom knows. The bride and groom continue to post happy pictures of themselves on facebook as they are counting down to the wedding in 3 weeks.
*
Are you certain you have the whole story? Was there male entertainment?*
I am not certain. I was nauseated and shocked when I found out that I have spoken very little her, just to have a general understanding of the situation. I presumed they were at a bar, and I don’t think there was male entertainment. 

*Define what boundaries are in your relationship.*
I have had a lot of female friends in college as I am a nurse. And she told me that if I ever cheated on her she would divorce me without question. Never thought it would be the other way around. 

*How do you feel about it? How does she?*
I am so confused that I woke up at 3 am in the morning in search for answers online and found this discussion forum. She feels remorseful. 

Once again thank you all for your insight.
OP


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

At the very least whether you choose to forgive there should be consequences for her behavour.

Failure to offer up consequences now will result in more heart break later if you reconcile.

Its encouraging how she confessed almost immediately.

However one thing you can take to the bank she would of definately downplayed and minimised what went on. Its very possible a lot more happened than she copped too.

At the end of the day cheating is cheating.

If you have any backbone you should not go to the wedding and neither should your wife. Additionally informing her fiancee is a must.

Perhaps the above are good consequences to begin with.

Im truly sorry you are going through this.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

OP. - I was kind of on the fence with this one - sorry - double standard and all...

But now I can see that it is all the unknowns and uncertainty that is the real problem (is that right?)

Maybe the best thing to do is address it head on. Tell her you are confused and conflicted and don't know what to make of this. Remind her about her statement about her boundary - cheating = D. Tell her you have so much confusion. Tell her the confusion and uncertainty and open questions are the biggest threat to your relationship. That dragging this out or ignoring it will both kill all the good that you have.

Then tell her to get some paper and take the time to write everything - and I mean everything down. Missing or denying or omitting anything will be worse than the act itself because it will mean the trust and respect is gone.

Tell her to write what happened in detail. How she felt. How OW felt. What happened after. 

What her feelings about women were before and after. What her feelings about OW were before and after.

What she enjoyed. What she regrets, how she feels about you along with her and OW.

What she wants to happen between you and her now and later.

Auctions, timing, planning, motivation, regrets, emotions. 

If she can do that will you be able to work through this?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Counselling Is what I recommend. Marital and individual.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

leprachaun3401 said:


> *Define what boundaries are in your relationship.*
> I have had a lot of female friends in college as I am a nurse. And she told me that if I ever cheated on her she would divorce me without question. Never thought it would be the other way around.
> OP


 OK so now you should ask her why you shouldn't do the same to her. She's so hell bent on you cheating but she can get all hot an bothered in a toilet of all places. 

I'm telling you friend that you better crack the whip real hard. Let the groom know what happened and you damn well better let her know that she isn't going to be in the wedding and your not going and you damn well better say it in a way that she gets the idea that she's got one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. If you don't then your going to be in big trouble. 

Just think what it will be like coming to to the bride and groom and saying congrats and you have to look the bride in the face. What the hell are you going to do then?. Better let her know now so she can get a replacement quick but make sure you both don't attend.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)




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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The last thing you want to do is tell your old lady you are confused and don't understand!

You tell her straight up that it's bull shyt and she will face consequences. Lets see what your women is made of. Lets see if she can face the boundaries you have set.

She will either tell you to phuck off or submit to the values you have in protecting the relationship.

Chicks dig confident guys......set the boundary...acknowledge the consequence when those boundaries are crossed.

Phuck the wedding! At the very least the wedding present was making it with your old lady so don;t spend another dime on the china set or matching baseball helmets with the two beer can holders on top with a straw that leads to your mouth.

Seriously, this "bride" is not a friend of your marriage....or any marriage....your old ladies lack of boundaries cost her either a friend ship or a husband. That cost is up to your lady to choose, just like it is up to you to choose in what you will tolerate in a relationship.

If anything.....it gives you a reason to bend your old lady over your knee and spank her....but thats just me, I'm wired different then most. Hell who knows, she might screw around again just so she gets spanked again!

At the end of the day you need to look at risk management and figure in if this shyt is going to happen again with some strange or even with the same chick years from now?


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You just found out that your wife is bi-sexual. She initiated the act. I wouldn't go to the wedding if I were you. No need to continue the friendship with this woman. Your wife should face consequences for acting up on her bi-sexuality, while married to you.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


>


LOL! Bad boy. 

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Your wife should face consequences if this ever happens again and she should be well aware of those consequences.

If she wants to phuck around with chicks then good for her but you sound like a guy that won't share his chick and that needs to be stated load and clear.

Just like Roselyn wrote...."while married to you" ...you have boundaries and sharing my wife is not an option irregardless off the genitiles. [how do you spell sex organs?]


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Wow a lot of strong reactions to a remorseful WS. She brought it up, right? And I call BS on you having to be a hard a55 and "be strong" - it's not like you are trying to win her back from some OM.

I've seen women kiss - many can be more fluid sexually and it might have been an emotional / sexual impulse. Doesn't make it right and you need to work through this as does she - but coming down like a bad MF probably won't accomplish anything.

State your boundaries clearly - yes - and figure what they are.

Point is you seem to have someone showing remorse so work with that and get to the bottom of it. Decide what you will based on your boundaries but it seems like you could get her to get it all on the table if she feels she will get a chance to be heard.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I have to agree with truth hurts.

Your wife told you the truth. She never had to.

She is obviously upset by her actions as well as confused by her actions.

Be the adult. Sit her down. Hear her out.

I don't think you need marriage counseling. The problem is not with your marriage.

The problem is with your wife.

Is she bisexual? Is the bride to be bisexual?

Hear her out. Draw your own conclusions. Reinforce your boundaries for the marriage to continue and communicate those boundaries to your wife.

She either accepts them or she does not.

If she is the maid of honor she should go.

But first you should have a word with the bride and groom to be about the "moment" in the ladies room.

That way you call all deal with the issue like adults.

Don't be confused. That is obviously your wife's issue. Instead take control and steer your marriage in the direction you both want it to take.

HM


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

leprachaun3401 said:


> The OW came out of the stall gave her a kiss on the cheek and my wife turned gave her a kiss on the mouth and *there was physical hand contact on genitalia and breasts*, lasting approximately a minute.


erm this is more than a quick kiss........there's definitely more to come

Tell her you don't believe her and go 180 for a few days and I'm sure more will come out then


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Just an add

In full view rubbing genitalia/breasts I doubt in view of others in toilet...in a cubicle yes

After a few days of 180 and she tells you more get her to write down exactly what happened


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

This is adultery,she cheated on you with another person while married to you.

Are you sure you got the whole story from your wife? Maybe you can check with her other "friends" who were at this party.

This person is not your friend so dont go to the weding. Dont belive her and your wife because both of them got some story for you.

If your wife is really remorseful like you said she wasshe would come to you asap and you would know a lot more about her affair. But now you dont know even where she was and with whom,what about other "friends"

Start digging my friend,you are only married for 4 years and you will think about starting a family with this woman. You said you were happily married,but you dont go and cheat on your husband or wife just like that. Keep your eyes open


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

The confession could have been damage control. It could be trickle truth. Drunk women who have heated each other up, could easily pick up a lucky guy at a club to gift with a threesome. But it doesn't even have to include another guy, I doubt that a woman that would make out and feel each other up in the bathroom would just turn it off and not take further in bed or back seat of a car. 

Either way, with you only being married 4 years with no kids, and starting a new life & job in another city, I'm not sure she's a good risk to start family with.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

OP,

Some additional questions:



leprachaun3401 said:


> From the OP
> Thank you all for your insight, advice and recommendations, and for some comic relief, AKA Bill Cosby showing up to the bachelorette party with male entertainment. LOL.
> I have scrolled through the majority of the post and pulled certain questions I would like to answer clarify. Please continue to post more as I am regularly checking this thread.
> 
> ...


So, you just plan on letting this slide, is that it? You're too confused and afraid to ask her some pointed questions and demand complete answers, right? You figure that, if you put this out of your mind, it will all go away and the two of you will live happily ever after, is that it?

Get a grip, dude. This is your future we're talking about and, so far, your blowing it.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

happyman64 said:


> I have to agree with truth hurts.
> 
> Your wife told you the truth. She never had to.
> 
> ...


Would you have the same advice if she made out, touching genitals, with the groom?

Would you advise them both to treat this lightly and still participate in the wedding?

If so, I think your advice is off. If not, you have a double standard and a bias about what gender a cheater cheats with.

I don't give a shyt what role she was to play. She cheated and needs to go NC with who she cheated with.

My wife makes out with another woman and she would be lucky if I was with her the next day. Damn sure wouldn't be going to her APs wedding.

Infidelity costs.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> . . . My wife makes out with another woman and she would be lucky if I was with her the next day. Damn sure wouldn't be going to her APs wedding.
> 
> Infidelity costs.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree entirely.

IMO, the OP is making a big mistake if he lets this slide. He should ask her to withdraw from the wedding to see if she is really remorseful and willing to work to begin to restore his trust.

He should also tell the groom what happened.

But I'm guessing he won't do either of these things.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

NoChoice said:


> Now you also mentioned alcohol and if we are to assume that this was all alcohol induced (unlikely) then she should be considered alcohol intolerant and should never drink if she wants to remain chaste and married since it is apparent that alcohol causes her to lose all inhibition and behave in a manner inconsistent with her sober values. That is my take from the information given.


I found out that the above applies to my wife early in our marriage. I had to lay down some hard rules about alcohol consumption. OP may need to do the same if he decides to stay with her. 

But for an intense make-out session with sexual groping involved, it seems to be much more than a couple of girls kissing each other in order to shock the other party goers. Who knows how far they would have gone in a more private setting?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

> Would you have the same advice if she made out, touching genitals, with the groom?
> 
> Would you advise them both to treat this lightly and still participate in the wedding?



Of course the answer is NO to both questions.

But guess what CH?

We can only go from what the Lep has told us about his wife and the bride. They made out in the ladies room. Not ate out. Made out.

Let's see if the Lep comes back.....

HM


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

cdbaker said:


> I think there is a big difference between it being with another woman vs. a man. Right off the bat, being playful and suggestive with other women is pretty widely tolerated, often encouraged, and not typically seen as a serious indicator of one's sexuality. I'm not saying whether that is right or wrong. It's not uncommon when a bunch of people get together drinking a lot and someone starts encouraging two women to touch each other suggestively, kiss, etc. So if that was the situation, within a group of people, full of alcohol, right before the woman is about to get married (thus feels somewhat inclined to get a little crazy right beforehand), and it was just some brief kissing/making out, then it PROBABLY isn't a big deal.
> 
> Again, that doesn't make it right. As a married woman, she still probably shouldn't engage in that, though I suppose I can imagine some folks feeling differently. *The biggest factor here is that she decided to tell you pretty quickly and seek your forgiveness. You didn't find out from a friend, she wasn't dismissive of it or your feelings about it, and it sounds like she's willing to do more to prove her loyalty/dedication to you.*
> .



Look, unpopular opinion. I've been married forever, I'm young, I've drunkenly made out with chicks, in front of my husband. 

Was it a poor choice? Yes.
Do I regret it? Hell Yes.

Is it because I'm a cheating *****? No.

Sexuality is fluid, and drinking makes it more so. This is the kind of thing that happens in college before you get married, so if you got married before you went to college.. it _may_ happen.

I wholeheartedly advise against it.. I'd tell her "No friggen way!" and make it out to be a big deal if you don't approve so she won't do it again, but know it's not a big deal.. and I mean that like.. I don't think she's a cheating *****. She went a little barsexual.. but yeah, if it's a big deal to you, it's a big deal to you.. I just don't think you have to worry about her boinking the neighbor, you know?


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Aren't we all going a bit off the deep end here? All we know is what the OP posted. He says that his wife called him right away and was very remorseful. That part has been ignored by most folks.

People do strange things when they are drunk, women perhaps moreso than men. There was a bit of a raunchy moment in the bathroom, of all places. For that many folks here want the OP to divorce his wife and blow up the soon-to-be-married folks wedding.

For what?

I'm not for rug sweeping this. The OP needs to have a long direct talk with his wife when they can get together alone in an unstressful location. I would really strongly argue that blowing up the other folks wedding would be a selfish reaction and one that is not needed.

I would urge the OP to tell his wife that she should talk to her GF and encourage her to tell her husband.

Beyond that I'd wait and see what the result of the discussion between the OP and his wife will be.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> Aren't we all going a bit off the deep end here? All we know is what the OP posted. He says that his wife called him right away and was very remorseful. That part has been ignored by most folks.
> 
> People do strange things when they are drunk, *women perhaps moreso than men*. There was a bit of a raunchy moment in the bathroom, of all places. For that many folks here want the OP to divorce his wife and blow up the soon-to-be-married folks wedding.
> 
> ...



Two things

1- Thank you! Holy cow! people freak out!

2- That highlighted part? Amen.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

LOL.

Put "drunk" in the search engine and then read the gender bias that occurs. 
Kind of funny how it is cute and okay since women are fluid. Interesting how we had a thread saying a male getting a lap dance and drinking is cheating, but drunken kissing and mutual genitalia groping of a close female friend is not.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LOL.
> 
> Put "drunk" in the search engine and then read the gender bias that occurs.
> Kind of funny how it is cute and okay since women are fluid. Interesting how we had a thread saying drunken lap dancing on a male is cheating, but drunken kissing and mutual genitalia groping of a close female friend is not.


If my husband got drunk and kissed another dude, I'd be like "What? Gross. Ew. Why?" But I wouldn't worry about him running out and screwing the secretary. I'd think he got drunk and lost his dang mind. And I'd also ask him to never do it again. 

Now I feel weird.. mental images...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sarantonio said:


> Look, unpopular opinion. I've been married forever, I'm young, I've drunkenly made out with chicks, in front of my husband.
> 
> Was it a poor choice? Yes.
> Do I regret it? Hell Yes.
> ...


You did it in front of your husband who apparently approved. OPs wife did it behind her Hs back.

What you did wasn't cheating. What OPs wife did was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

People always say how they take stuff until it happens. 

"Oh, I'd divorce my spouse if the person cheated no questions asked."
Then these people spend years in limbo or they reconcile.
"Oh, my wife making out with a woman would be cool."
Then they end up divorced because she found her sexuality or he had doubts.


I do like the "ew" though because the few threads that have cropped up, concerning male on male curiosity, was he cheated, needed to tell his wife immediately and he is gay. 




> For that many folks here want the OP to divorce his wife and blow up the soon-to-be-married folks wedding.


LOL. People said forgive, enact boundaries and do not let this go. Only one person suggested divorce and that was for himself not the OP. Yes, some are saying inform the groom. Interestingly enough, I wouldn't because OP's wife sounds like the aggressor to me.



> it happened in the girls bathroom and she was waiting for the OW. *The OW came out of the stall gave her a kiss on the cheek and my wife turned gave her a kiss on the mouth and there was physical hand contact on genitalia and breasts, lasting approximately a minute.*


 If I were the groom, his wife would be a No Contact_ list_ as long as we stayed married.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Sarantonio said:


> Two things
> 
> 1- Thank you! Holy cow! people freak out!
> 
> 2- That highlighted part? Amen.


She cheated. You might classify cheating as weird behavior when drunk and you might just tell your husband not to cheat again if he got drunk and cheated on you.

He might do the same if you got drunk and cheated on him.

Most people don't excuse cheating with drunkenness.

No. My wife doesn't get a pass for cheating with a woman even if drunk.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

There is a vast span of difference between kissing in front of other chicks at a bar and mutual manual stimulation in a restroom. That is full on cheating. 

Have you asked your GF if she and her friend had full on girl-on-girl sex in the past? I cannot believe this is some new development. They had to have been doing this on and off throughout their friendship, and if so, you wife has demonstrated cheating behaviors that could eventually rise to the surface again and threaten your marriage. 

My take is that the groom did find out, went fvcking apesh!t on his fiancee, and thus the de-freinding of your wife. 

I agree you need to play hardball with your wife. This is bullsh!t, and you need to show her you are perfectly willing to go see a lawyer and start the D process if she pulls a stunt like this again...at the bare minimum. 

You have every right to be completely hurt and pissed off. This was a betrayal. 

Her penalty....she unfriends this chick and never, ever has any contact with her again. Furthermore, no more GNOs or going out to partties or bars without you for the foreseeable future, at least until you and her have attended some marriage counseling and dealt with this.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> LOL. People said forgive, enact boundaries and do not let this go. Only one person suggested divorce and that was for himself not the OP. Yes, some are saying inform the groom. Interestingly enough, I wouldn't because OP's wife sounds like the aggressor to me.
> 
> If I were the groom, his wife would be a No Contact_ list_ as long as we stayed married.


I think the groom found out and that's why our carpet-munchers are no longer besties.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> There is a vast span of difference between kissing in front of other chicks at a bar and mutual manual stimulation in a restroom. That is full on cheating.
> 
> Have you asked your GF if she and her friend had full on girl-on-girl sex in the past? I cannot believe this is some new development. They had to have been doing this on and off throughout their friendship, and if so, you wife has demonstrated cheating behaviors that could eventually rise to the surface again and threaten your marriage.
> 
> My take is that the groom did find out, went fvcking apesh!t on his fiancee, and thus the de-freinding of your wife.


I don't see the OP reporting that his wife was defriended. Are you sure about this?


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Sarantonio said:


> If my husband got drunk and kissed another dude, I'd be like "What? Gross. Ew. Why?" But I wouldn't worry about him running out and screwing the secretary. I'd think he got drunk and lost his dang mind. And I'd also ask him to never do it again.
> 
> Now I feel weird.. mental images...


 If you saw your husband do that I'd bet the house you wouldn't just say "Never do it again" You would have popped him a good one right in his gums and probably leave. Can't say i wouldn't blame you either.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sarantonio said:


> She went a little barsexual...



LOL! Never heard that term before.

Hilarious.


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

I think we've all seen "barsexual" in action- an appropriate term. This, however?

Yes, its straight up cheating. Is all lost? No, its not. She did inform her husband about this voluntarily. Now, because of what board we're posting on, I don't necessarily have to believe that she did this out of guilt and love. Its possible someone may have seen this happen. 

This was far beyond two drunken women messing around to put on a show - this was an intense sexual interaction. The husband needs to talk with her, face to face. She needs to really be honest, with her husband and herself, about her attraction to women and this friend in particular. Given the intensity, it is entirely reasonable that this has happened before, with either the friend or another woman. 

Its not unheard of that a spouse "discovers" their feelings for people of the same sex, whether its 1 year or 20 into a marriage. It happens. This may be the beginning of that process, or it may not. She needs to come clean


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Again I call BS on the hard liners here. Strip clubs exist in most major and many Podunk cities in the U.S. You can get in free - no cover charge - if you show you room key card from your hotel (business travelers). If you're lucky, the naughty pole dancer that got your attention the night before will be at the hotel conceriege desk the next morning.

Just the way things are. And lots of genital contact, even if you try to avoid it as I always did. A few times a girl got extra saucy and I have to admit I didn't throw her across the room.

I've seen a variety of things that intentionally crossed the lines, but I've also seen fun situations careen off a bit for a brief period.

So no double standard here. I acknowledge stuff can happen and I applaud her for coming forward. The genital contact doesn't mean she's gay or bi or anything. Only "frisky" and she probably thought - for a brief moment - it didn't count as it wasn't a guy. She probably also realized her mistake quickly - the brain chemicals released when we're frisky tend to make bad things seem fun and not so bad.

So I get the views on both sides and those in the middle. All have good points. But there is no clear "true" answer here, regardless of what anyone else's gut tells them. We can't know.

So, OP, good luck. I for one agree future hubby should overreact before you do.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

OP, you seem to be avoiding the whole topic with your wife, do you do this with everything else also in your relationship?

You have to face it, whatever it is. Sit her down and talk to her, why she thought it was ok, the ow reaction, subsequent reactions, will she tell the husband to be, does you W have any such urges or affections towards other women.
Were they very drunk? etc etc. You seem to be brushing it all under the carpet, this will eat you up no end and your marriage will suffer as a result. Avoiding the topic is not helping.

Go to MC to thrash this out also.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Wonder what happened to Leprachaun?


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

6301 said:


> Wonder what happened to Leprachaun?


Perhaps some one posted the full vid online :wink2:


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Here's my sure to be unpopular opinion. Keep in mind that I have been the victim of a cheating spouse too, so it's not that I don't know what it's like.

Did she cross a line that she absolutely shouldn't have crossed? Yes.
Should the groom be told? Yes (though I doubt he will care)
Does this qualify as an affair? NO, not in my view.
Does this qualify as cheating? In light of the other pieces of information (like her quickly admitting it, throwing herself on OP's mercy, etc.), I'm going to say it's a gray area. The other pieces of information are very relevant.

Does it make a difference that it was another woman and your wife who drunkenly made out at a bar, vs. if it was another man and your wife? YES it absolutely does make a HUGE difference. Again, I think most women go through their teen's and early 20's knowing that most people (men especially) love seeing/hearing about two straight women getting drunk and making out with each other, even if one or both are in exclusive relationships with other people. It's typically not seen as a sign of bisexuality unless it's a very frequent occurrence I believe. If it were another man however, aside from an aspiring cuckold, that is universally considered to be wrong if she is in a relationship. Period. Call it a hypocritical situation if you like, but it is what it is.

I will say, the fact that it occurred in a restroom, without an audience applying a lot of peer pressure, leaves me slightly more concerned than I was before. So I would still say you've got a lot of questions to ask her. Such as:

1. Someone else here already suggested it, but I would have her sit down and write/type out absolutely every single thing that happened that night. Both linearly and emotionally. Like "Then this happened, and I was feeling this, and I think she was feeling that."
2. Ask her exactly why she thinks she did it, and listen carefully to her answers. If it's something like, "Because I was drunk, not thinking, and thought what the hell?!" then that's not so bad, but if it's something like, "Because she suddenly looked so beautiful and I've been tempted for so long and figured this might be my last opportunity." then that's a concern, of course.
3. Ask her if she is attracted to other women? Other women in general, only specific women (if so, then who specifically?) and what does that attraction look/feel like? Has she ever seriously thought about being with a woman sexually? Relationally?
4. Does she think the groom aught to be told?
5. What ended the make-out session? Was there something that instigated it like someone else walking into the restroom, or did one of them voluntarily stop it? If so, who stopped first?
6. Did she (or to her knowledge, the bride) go into the restroom with the intention/hope that they might kiss, or more? Were there any witnesses?
7. Afterwards, how did she and the bride respond? Was anything said about it? What does she think the brides feelings are about it?

As far as finding forgiveness for her, turning to the 180, etc., I would just continue to respond that you are still processing everything and aren't sure yet how you feel about it all yet. Don't let her off the hook easily by saying it's ok and you'll get over it, but I don't think it would be fair for you to completely walk away from her and leave her believing that divorce is imminent either. Why? Because she did do the right thing by telling you what happened, when the odds are that you never would have found out otherwise. Assuming your marriage survives this (which I think it should and will), you don't want to punish her so badly right away to such an extent that she reconsiders being so forthright and honest with you in the future.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> Does it make a difference that it was another woman and your wife who drunkenly made out at a bar, vs. if it was another man and your wife? YES it absolutely does make a HUGE difference. Again, I think most women go through their teen's and early 20's knowing that most people (men especially) love seeing/hearing about two straight women getting drunk and making out with each other, even if one or both are in exclusive relationships with other people. It's typically not seen as a sign of bisexuality


 Don't buy it. What if men like seeing two straight women holding hands and jumping off a bridge? Are the women going to do it? 

Boils down to this. If your married then your intimate with your spouse and not with another women in a toilet and the old "I was drunk" excuse is the first thing that comes out of their mouths. Sorry. Can't buy it.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

6301 said:


> cdbaker said:
> 
> 
> > Does it make a difference that it was another woman and your wife who drunkenly made out at a bar, vs. if it was another man and your wife? YES it absolutely does make a HUGE difference. Again, I think most women go through their teen's and early 20's knowing that most people (men especially) love seeing/hearing about two straight women getting drunk and making out with each other, even if one or both are in exclusive relationships with other people. It's typically not seen as a sign of bisexuality
> ...


If it was in the media enough, most likely. 

Humans are a lot more susceptible to influence than we like to believe..

I mean.. Look at Hitler.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

6301 said:


> Boils down to this. If your married then your intimate with your spouse and not with another women in a toilet and the old "I was drunk" excuse is the first thing that comes out of their mouths. Sorry. Can't buy it.


6301, please understand that I'm not picking on you. I want to note that a lot of folks agree with you. But what is it that is being insinuated? She and the bride-to-be are having an affair? The wife jumps every woman she can? She went out that evening specifically to get the wife alone?

I'd agree that there might be something else going on IF there was some evidence for what that "something" might be.

As for the OP, as often happens on TAM folks jumped all over him, declaring that without doubt the wife was cheating, was not marriage material, and that the OP should dump her straight off. I'd not be surprised if the OP never comes back. The OP came here looking for people to tell him that his marriage was safe and that this is a tempest in a tea pot. Instead he got flayed alive.

And no, I am NOT suggesting that the OP ignore the whole thing. As I've already posted, he needs to have a long face-to-face talk to his wife. I understand that this is impossible at the moment as they are not in the same city. And I do NOT think that the groom should be told anything by the OP. Blowing up people's weddings is not something to be undertaken lightly.

What I think the OP should do is telephone his wife and tell her that she should talk to the bride and strongly suggest to her that SHE tell the groom what happened. Then let them work it out.

I'm certain that with some effort this can be overcome and the marriage saved.


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## Paul Bennett (Dec 15, 2009)

What this gentleman (I don't think anyone has asked the gender of the original poster) needs is curiosity about what happened, what his (?) wife felt, what the hell really happened. 

Instead of giving this person examples of the curiosity that is called for, this group of "helpful people" has given him more examples of the speculation that he (?) dipped his toe into by heading he post "infidelity." 

I haven't read all the posts yet. It's a lot to read. To most whose posts I have read, full of speculation and off-the-cuff advice, I say, "shame on you." Encouraging this person to punish his (?) wife for telling him something that might upset him or might need to be discussed between them, is not helpful, it is destructive.

To the original poster, if you get this far down the list of responses: "Approach your wife with love and curiosity. She has given you a gift that was not easy for her to give. Now what will you do with it?"

That is advice. Ignore all advice that does not call you to be bigger, more loving, than you have been.What this gentleman (I don't think anyone has asked the gender of the original poster) needs is curiosity about what happened, what his (?) wife felt, what the hell really happened. 

Instead of giving this person examples of the curiosity that is called for, this group of "helpful people" has given him more examples of the speculation that he (?) dipped his toe into by heading he post "infidelity." 

I haven't read all the posts yet. It's a lot to read. To most whose posts I have read, full of speculation and off-the-cuff advice, I say, "shame on you." Encouraging this person to punish his (?) wife for telling him something that might upset him or might need to be discussed between them, is not helpful, it is destructive.

To the original poster, if you get this far down the list of responses: "Approach your wife with love and curiosity. She has given you a gift that was not easy for her to give. Now what will you do with it?"

That is advice. Ignore all advice that does not call you to be bigger, more loving, than you have been.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Again I call BS on the hard liners here. Strip clubs exist in most major and many Podunk cities in the U.S. You can get in free - no cover charge - if you show you room key card from your hotel (business travelers). If you're lucky, the naughty pole dancer that got your attention the night before will be at the hotel conceriege desk the next morning.
> 
> Just the way things are. And lots of genital contact, even if you try to avoid it as I always did. A few times a girl got extra saucy and I have to admit I didn't throw her across the room.
> 
> ...


Straight, bi or ****. I don't really care. This wasn't an agreed upon stripper experience. She cheated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Well Paul to save you reading it all - some thought meh, some thought run, some thought she's bi or gay... I think pretty much all bases were covered. I was a bit more then meh but definitely listen and talk. Leprechaun probably realized this scenario engenders so many varied opinions that he got whatever he needed.

Would be nice to know what happened though...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Paul Bennett said:


> What this gentleman (I don't think anyone has asked the gender of the original poster) needs is curiosity about what happened, what his (?) wife felt, what the hell really happened.
> 
> Instead of giving this person examples of the curiosity that is called for, this group of "helpful people" has given him more examples of the speculation that he (?) dipped his toe into by heading he post "infidelity."
> 
> ...


The repercussions are not for being honest but for cheating.

If you are fine with your spouse cheating on you as long as they tell you then you are in a super minority and your advice is unhelpful.

Shame on you for not having the first clue about cheaters and trickle truth.

If you're going to give advice about cheating, at least study up on it enough to even recognize it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Infidelity is a breach of trust, regardless of the act. Even if it's not a big deal to you OP, letting this slide will only encourage more and perhaps worse violations in the future.


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## Sarantonio (Sep 24, 2015)

sidney2718 said:


> 6301 said:
> 
> 
> > Boils down to this. If your married then your intimate with your spouse and not with another women in a toilet and the old "I was drunk" excuse is the first thing that comes out of their mouths. Sorry. Can't buy it.
> ...



I agree wholeheartedly.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

incidences of infidelity occur during these events,
husband or wife did not join spouse at a event,party or wedding.
the correlation is significant for to believe that some how these are correlated.

could you not join or be with your wife at that wedding event?

what was more so important that you could not be with your wife?
time and again. same old same old.

when you are married you should always consider that when having fun or a good time you are doing it with your spouse. is it not logical?

that's like going to the movie theater alone while your married. sad?

anytime your spouse goes out to enjoy themselves, ask to be there or be there.


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## kjm (Jan 8, 2011)

Every marriage is different with different thresholds of allowable behavior. Making out with the bride? I'd consider that as serious as masturbation (i.e.: not even in the realm of cheating, but just having drunk fun). I would not question my wife's sexuality or any of that. I did however, divorce my ex wife for making out with another man (with very strong suspicions that the relationship went further and she just didn't admit it). My wife has expressed curiosity about being with a woman, and that is pretty normal among the women I know. It does not mean she is a lesbian. The important thing here is we talk about this stuff. I've expressed an interest in a FFM 3some too but that doesn't mean it will ever move from the fantasy into reality. 

I would not consider this infidelity, but every marriage is different. It seems as if you may want to discuss boundaries. My wife knows the circumstances of my divorce and so that boundary was well known. If I found out she had been making out with another woman in my absence, I can't say I'd lose too much sleep over it, in fact, I don't know how I'd feel about it. We've been married for 20 years, so that might play into some of our knowing each other quite well. I don't feel threatened by another woman, yet when she FB friended her old boyfriend from High School, I discussed it with her. So perhaps I am a hypocrite. If it is a male that she has had a relationship with in the past, I am extremely uncomfortable with that, whereas I'm just fine with her with another woman. Your comfort level should decide. I respect her wishes and her comfort levels with my relationships because that's what you do in a marriage.

As for other opinion- We used to listen to Dr. Laura on the radio and that is what got us discussing this topic in my own marriage. Her advice was sound: 1. don't cheat. 2. If you screwed up in the past, and it was a one-time thing, don't tell. It sounds dishonest but unless you just want a divorce, I fail to see why your spouse would have told you this. If I go about believing my wife has been faithful forever, then we are happy. If I discover infidelity (as we define it), then I am forced to divorce, or at minimum lose a bunch of good years rebuilding trust.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'd like to point out that he stated the whole thing lasted about a minute!


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

6301 said:


> Don't buy it. What if men like seeing two straight women holding hands and jumping off a bridge? Are the women going to do it?
> 
> Boils down to this. If your married then your intimate with your spouse and not with another women in a toilet and the old "I was drunk" excuse is the first thing that comes out of their mouths. Sorry. Can't buy it.


Are you comparing the ease with which a drunken woman might playfully kiss/make-out with another objectively attractive woman in order to excite/gain approval/gain the attention of a large crowd of her peers, to the ease with which she might kill herself? Is that your argument? That because she isn't willing to go so far as kill herself due to the alcohol and influence of the crowd, that these factors (plus general societal acceptance/encouragement of public drunken female/female flirtation) are completely irrelevant to her actions?

Listen, if you ask me to go kill myself, I'm going to say no. If you ask me to give you a ride to work tomorrow, I'll probably say yes. I promise you that it is the killing myself part that I have a problem with, and that I wouldn't show up at your house tomorrow to give you a ride to work unless you ask me. See my point?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> See my point?


I do. You will hang onto this public fluidity of women and peer pressure based exhibitionism, even though the cheating took place in a bathroom in private.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

To all the 'it's no big deal' posters, if you've been following the stories on TAM/CWI for any length of time, you know that a lot of infidelity stories start out with (1) one of the marriage partners engaging in behavior that, while not amounting to cheating, is inconsistent with his or her marriage vows and disrespectful of the other spouse but which (2) the other marriage partner ignores because it doesn't seem like a big deal. In hindsight, the betrayed spouse realizes too late that what seemed relatively innocent and harmless at the time was the beginning of behavior that led to infidelity.

I don't think anyone here is equating what the OP's wife did to a LTA or even a ONS. But certainly it is behavior that calls into question her judgment, her ability to maintain proper behavioral boundaries, her commitment to her marriage and even her sexual orientation.

Yes, if the OP ignores what happened and if his wife suffers no consequences, it is possible that nothing of the sort will ever happen again. But the wisdom of TAM/CWI is that the OP will be better off if he takes this incident seriously instead of ignoring it and gives his wife some consequences instead of sweeping what she did under the rug.

For me, insisting that she drop out of the wedding is the right consequence, as it will allow the OP to judge whether his wife truly believes that what she did was wrong, is genuinely remorseful and is prepared take steps to address her problem.


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## perol (Oct 6, 2015)

You're moving away anyway so the bride isn't going to be a big issue.

I suggest you tell her that they owe you a threesome and then it's all even.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Paul Bennett said:


> What this gentleman *(I don't think anyone has asked the gender of the original poster)* needs is curiosity about what happened, what his (?) wife felt, what the hell really happened.


I cannot believe this escaped notice for so long. 

If this is a female/female marriage, the OP has a very big problem to deal with.

As for what caused them to stop after one minute? I am betting on another person entered or was knocking on the bathroom door. Who ever heard of a bathroom in a bar going unoccupied long enough to allow more than one minute of privacy?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> I cannot believe this escaped notice for so long.
> 
> If this is a female/female marriage, the OP has a very big problem to deal with.
> 
> As for what caused them to stop after one minute? I am betting on another person entered or was knocking on the bathroom door. Who ever heard of a bathroom in a bar going unoccupied long enough to allow more than one minute of privacy?


The OP is a guy. Read closely.



> Should I question her loyalty, *sexuality*, or fidelity?


Why would he question her sexuality at all if the OP was a gal......

I don't think the OP is coming back.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

I hope the OP does come back. In my opinion there has been some really extreme advise here. So much depends on what actually happened & more importantly how it felt & what meaning it has for his W. This is my honest opinion...

I've had conversations with friends about attraction between women. I'm an artist & find the female form incredibly beautiful. I'm heterosexual. When I was young & partying, very drunk, I've had female 'friends' cross that line a couple of times & move in for a kiss. I've never actually kissed, really kissed a girl but I'm not grossed out by the idea if I'm completely open about it. if I had been a little more drunk it could of happened. If I'd been in a relationship would I of considered it cheating?? I would of confessed but I wouldn't consider it the same as kissing a man. Wrong but somehow not as bad.

Step 2. Could I touch a woman? Briefly skimming over clothes maybe, possibly, unlikely. 
Step 3 & beyond. Could I naked fondle a woman. Definitely not! My views are completely "Each to there own" but for me personally the idea grosses me out. I like men's body parts. That's just me. I believe that any woman who goes that far & likes it has a lot of thinking to do.

The whole thing lasted about a minute. As others have said, why they stopped is VERY important. If the OW touched her & she didn't like it or if she fondled the OW & it grossed her out it's a VERY different situation than if she was really into it. 

It was hat we call in a England a 'Hen Do", like a 'Stag Do' for men. The OP COULDN'T go with her. In my experience, women are far more emotional at these things than men particularly if they are very close, childhood friends even more so. As Maid of Honor to a couple of very close friends there was lots of reminiscing, hugging & crying. They've been emotionally intense experiences with an excess of alcohol involved. 

Until he exactly knows what happened & how it was perceived by his wife NO-ONE can say if it's a huge deal or not. it could be a very strange thing of little significance that happened between dear friends at an emotional MINUTE while very, very drunk....OR....She could be a very sexually confused lady who CHEATED on her H. 

I DO NOT believe that bi-sexuality gives anyone a free pass. Whatever sexuality you are if you make a commitment, state exclusive vows, cheating IS cheating!!! Sexual confusion is confusion. All cheats claim to be confused!! There is NO EXCUSE for infidelity. Some acts of infidelity are far more forgivable than others. Perception is so important in this case.

THEY NEED TO TALK!!!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

happyman64 said:


> The OP is a guy. Read closely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep. I went back to read the posts more closely;

"*Did you have any idea that your wife was attracted to women?*
I had no clue she was attracted to women."

Totally missed that. But I agree - OP is long gone.


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I do. You will hang onto this public fluidity of women and peer pressure based exhibitionism, even though the cheating took place in a bathroom in private.


Dude... I wasn't talking about this particular situation. Look at what 6301 quoted when he made the "jumping off a bridge" vs. "drunkenly kiss another girl in a bar" comparison. Here is the quote of what I said, for reference:

"Again, I think most women go through their teen's and early 20's knowing that most people (men especially) love seeing/hearing about two straight women getting drunk and making out with each other, even if one or both are in exclusive relationships with other people. It's typically not seen as a sign of bisexuality."

I am clearly referring to a general notion and not to the particular situation with OP's wife here. There is absolutely no mention of OP's situation at all here. So I'm not comparing it to that situation at all! 


For what it's worth, even though my "general notion" assertion above still somewhat applies, I do agree that the fact that OP's wife's situation happened in a bathroom, presumably away from their friends/other bar patrons, changes the situation a bit. That does make it potentially a bit more concerning, and yes I would be less concerned if it happened in the middle of a crowd while being egged on to some degree. It being private implies to me that your wife and the future bride sort of took advantage of an opportunity, perhaps to explore a curiosity, be a little crazy prior to the Bride's upcoming vows to not be crazy, and if you take away the peer pressure motive that is often common in these types of situations, then that does imply that there was some underlying mutual interest in it.

So I agree, the OP should investigate this further, as there could be something to it. My point otherwise is that alcohol + peer pressure can get people to do silly things that they otherwise would have no desire to do, especially if that action is generally considered to be socially acceptable under the circumstances. For example, if I'm out with a bunch of friends drinking in the dead of winter and it's 5 degree's out, the alcohol/peer pressure combo might be able to get me to take my shirt off and run down the street screaming wildly about my favorite sports team. Is that something I have an underlying desire to do under any other circumstances? Absolutely not.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

cdbaker said:


> Dude... I wasn't talking about this particular situation.


Yes, I know. It's the reason why I posted what I did. I get 6301's hyperbolic sarcasm because it was written in the context of this situation and the thread. Heck 6301 might actually agree with your point, but doesn't in context to the thread and marriage which you continually skip over Dude.


Oh well, OP hasn't come back and I'm out until he returns. Last dissertation to you.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

sidney2718 said:


> 6301, please understand that I'm not picking on you. I want to note that a lot of folks agree with you. But what is it that is being insinuated? She and the bride-to-be are having an affair? The wife jumps every woman she can? She went out that evening specifically to get the wife alone?
> 
> I'd agree that there might be something else going on IF there was some evidence for what that "something" might be.
> 
> ...


I know your not picking on me. I should have used a better example after re reading what I posted.


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