# How to Separate with Young Kids



## haveanicelife (Aug 5, 2016)

So, I had a heartbreaking situation tonight. My wife and I have been really up and down lately. Today was bad. Things weren't great yesterday, but we both seemed to be in really good moods today and things were fine throughout the day. My wife and I got into a discussion this afternoon and things escalated. I felt like she was attacking with very sarcastic and mean spirited comments. I raised my voice and wasn't calm either as things escalated. In the course of the discussion, she basically told me to leave. I said I wasn't going to leave, so she packed her things and tried to leave. I told her before she left that no one told her to leave or even suggested she leave. Here is the heartbreaking part. My kids (9 and 7) were begging her not to go (they were there when all this happened). My wife couldn't leave (my kids were barricading themselves in my wife's car), so she came back inside. I called a family meeting and tried to explain my feelings about what had happened. My wife pretty much said nothing and criticized me again. Then she decided to leave again. My daughter ran after her, hysterical. I had to hold my daughter and try to calm her while my wife drove away.

So my question is, what is the healthiest way for us to explain to our kids that we need a break. My daughter thinks that her mother doesn't love her anymore and is never coming back. I have tried to explain that sometimes adults need time apart and it has nothing to do with my daughter. But that doesn't work.

Just by way of background, things have been steadily getting worse between us. It seems like we don't have much in common anymore (other than our kids of course) and we have a hard time communicating. I try to share my viewpoints with my wife and she gets very defensive. She takes everything personally. It just seems like we are on two different planes. I have been feeling a lot of resentment lately (but really for the last several years) because of some things that have happened in the past and my perception that my wife is always on her phone and not engaged at home. To give her credit, she does a lot at home and probably more than I give her credit for, but we haven't been on the same page regarding child raising issues, finances, priorities, etc. We have good days, and we have really bad days. We tried marriage counseling about a year ago, but that didn't work.

Part of my resentment is that I feel like everything is always my fault. My wife rarely apologizes and rarely takes responsibility for any of the problems. It is always my job to apologize to her, fix things, etc. That is exactly what happened tonight. I shared my feelings with her and she said nothing, did not apologize and did not take any responsibility. She seemed more eager to run out the door than try to have an adult conversation and fix things.

I just feel so hopeless right now, and I am not sure we can fix this. I am not sure I have the energy to try counseling again. But maybe with a different counselor it would be better. I am just tired of always being the one apologizing, trying to talk about things, etc. I just feel like my wife is not fighting to keep this thing together, and I am quickly losing my will and energy to fight for it too.

So, my questions are: (1) should we try a separation? Will that really help or will that just seal the deal?; and (2) if we do separate, how can we do it in a way that won't eternally damage our kids?

Thanks for listening!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The "We" in your marriage is now "Me and Her".

As far as separating, she has already split She is, or soon will be, a Walk-Away-Wife, WAW..

You [likely] cannot sew the marriage back together again.

Why?

Your thread is weak, your needle is too dull to penetrate her skin and most importantly, she refuses the initial basting stitches. 


Yes, separate.

The only thing that you have going for [you] now is Hope.

Hope is eternal but rarely plays out, especially when another's feelings are key to a desired outcome.

A women may leave her husband, but rarely her children. 

Something else is going on. What might that be?......who is on the phone with her?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

haveanicelife said:


> So, I had a heartbreaking situation tonight. My wife and I have been really up and down lately. Today was bad. Things weren't great yesterday, but we both seemed to be in really good moods today and things were fine throughout the day. My wife and I got into a discussion this afternoon and things escalated. I felt like she was attacking with very sarcastic and mean spirited comments. I raised my voice and wasn't calm either as things escalated. In the course of the discussion, she basically told me to leave. I said I wasn't going to leave, so she packed her things and tried to leave. I told her before she left that no one told her to leave or even suggested she leave. Here is the heartbreaking part. My kids (9 and 7) were begging her not to go (they were there when all this happened). My wife couldn't leave (my kids were barricading themselves in my wife's car), so she came back inside. I called a family meeting and tried to explain my feelings about what had happened. My wife pretty much said nothing and criticized me again. Then she decided to leave again. My daughter ran after her, hysterical. I had to hold my daughter and try to calm her while my wife drove away.
> 
> So my question is, what is the healthiest way for us to explain to our kids that we need a break. My daughter thinks that her mother doesn't love her anymore and is never coming back. I have tried to explain that sometimes adults need time apart and it has nothing to do with my daughter. But that doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Seems a bit late for that concern doesn't it? 

Family counseling right now, if your wife wont go so be it but your kids need to be shown this crap isn't about them.

Stop stop stop fighting in front of the kids, learn to step away before the nastiness starts, many times a few minutes to cool off makes the issue seem less life altering, come back to it if you must but only out of range of the kids.

Marriage counseling for you and the wife, if your issues can't be resolved then the counselor can coach you how to tell the children. The words you use and the way you tell the kids is very important, you need to make sure none of the responsibility for your misery is laid on the kids. For instance you never say "mom and I don't love each other any longer but we have tried to make it work because of you kids". That may be the reality but that makes the kids feel responsible that you two have been unhappy.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

She may have a narcissistic personality disorder. Obviously very off the cuff, but I see similarities with my wife.

There is no easy way to break it to the kids. The o it thing you can try to do is have a cordial relationship. Be strong but be fair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## flyhigher (Jun 23, 2016)

You're poor daughter. My heart goes out to your kids because my childhood was very similar. My brothers and I have blocked the doorway before to keep my mother from leaving. It didn't work, she left anyway; as your wife did.
The hardest part about all of this is that your kids are in the middle; and no matter what you say, they will blame themselves.
You NEED to stop fighting in front of them. NOW. You need to disengage when your wife tries to fight. You need to take yourself, and you kids, out of the house if she won't let things go.

I would say separate..
Unfortunately, the only one that can mend your daughter's relationship with her mother right now, is her mother. You just keep being there for support and love. Keep telling them they are loved, keep showing them love, keep repeating that this is none of their fault.

I'm living proof, though, that you're kids will be fine. My parents were violent fighters; throwing things at each other, screaming, crying. I used to wake in the middle of the night and hold my mother as she cried on the kitchen floor. My parents had affairs, parties, they drank... it was nasty.

BUT; 20 years later, and they are friends. We all get together (with my new step parents) and enjoy Christmas together, they call each other and we have great times. I have a great relationship with BOTH of my parents and I don't hate them for my childhood. I think they did the best with what they had. And yes, I"m glad they split up. I afraid to think of what life would have been like if they hadn't. Their separation brought me and my siblings peace, in the end. As hard as it was, I think they did the right now.

Keep putting the kids first. Never talk nasty about the other parent in front of them. Answer their questions honestly; but don't offer anymore information than what they ask for.. they will only ask for what their little minds can handle. And don't forget, during the storms, show them FUN. Take them to the park, and play. Don't let them forget what it is to be young and a kid... put your own emotions aside for a day, and let them be carefree kids. They WILL carry the world on their shoulders if you let them.

Good luck!!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

When you had a family meeting to tell your kids what happened, what did you tell them?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Kids will blame themselves no matter what apparently. All you can do is tell them over and over and over that it isn't their fault. Your wife should also do that for them. Family counseling also goes a huge long way toward helping this type of situation out. I had a couple of books about divorce and what to talk to your kids about, I don't remember what they were now but I know they also helped.


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## haveanicelife (Aug 5, 2016)

When we had our family meeting, I tried to explain my feelings about how our conversation went. I tried to explain that I was just explaining a topic that I was passionate about, and I felt like she took it personally and started to attack me. I was trying to get us to open up and share how we were feeling and how we got to that point. She didn't really say anything, and then she left. I didn't feel like she was trying at all.

Today, we have been texting back and forth, but it isn't going well. She thinks I attacker her yesterday and called her names (which is not true and not something I ever do). She thinks I am being stubborn and won't apologize. She is essentially blaming me again. It is the same story. Something goes wrong, I am supposed to apologize and then hug her and cuddle her like nothing happened. I just feel tired at this point and I am not sure I have it in me to do it anymore. I just feel like she will not take any responsibility and won't do any heavy lifting to fix things. I really get the sense she has checked out and thrown in the towel. I am really, really sad today. It's a really hard thing to hear.

The kids are doing good today. My son was a grump but what is new. My daughter was fine. I am just not sure what to do moving forward.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

haveanicelife said:


> When we had our family meeting, I tried to explain my feelings about how our conversation went. I tried to explain that I was just explaining a topic that I was passionate about, and I felt like she took it personally and started to attack me. I was trying to get us to open up and share how we were feeling and how we got to that point. She didn't really say anything, and then she left. I didn't feel like she was trying at all.


First you and your wife have an ugly fight in front of your children.
Then you call a family meeting (meaning with your children) and to explain that you were only telling your feelings and that believed that your wife attacked you. You told this to your kids.
You are wrong in involving your children in this. It was wrong to have a fight in front of them. And then it was wrong to call that family meeting. You and your wife should have simply apologized to your children and assured them that they are not at fault in any way.
Then you and your wife could deal with your personal problems in private. I can see why your wife left. Where I she, I would not have left the home with my children there. But she probably thought it was the only way to stop the nonsense.


haveanicelife said:


> Today, we have been texting back and forth, but it isn't going well. She thinks I attacker her yesterday and called her names (which is not true and not something I ever do). She thinks I am being stubborn and won't apologize. She is essentially blaming me again. It is the same story. Something goes wrong, I am supposed to apologize and then hug her and cuddle her like nothing happened. I just feel tired at this point and I am not sure I have it in me to do it anymore. I just feel like she will not take any responsibility and won't do any heavy lifting to fix things. I really get the sense she has checked out and thrown in the towel. I am really, really sad today. It's a really hard thing to hear.


How about you take another approach. You were both wrong. So apologize or not, but stop the fighting. You two need to find a counselor who can teach the two of you how to discuss things instead of arguing.
How about this “I’m sick about what happened last night. I love you. I love our family. I would really like it if you came home.” (and if she comes home, stop the discussion and argument)
And you need to learn to stop escalating discussions into angry fights. Were she here, I would tell her the same thing. But she’s not. It takes two to argue. So if one person refuses to engage in the argument, the argument does not happen. It really is that simple. Learn to not engage.



haveanicelife said:


> The kids are doing good today. My son was a grump but what is new. My daughter was fine. I am just not sure what to do moving forward.


Get back into marriage counseling. 

Get the books “Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”. Read them. Get her to read them. Do the work.


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## haveanicelife (Aug 5, 2016)

Thank you for your thoughts EleGirl. I appreciate your perspective. The problem is that I do not see any desire in my wife to fix this. And this isn't something that just happened yesterday. We have been through a lot together, and at every turn it is me who has to be the grown up, apologize, get the conversation going, etc. I am just tired of it. Can I have a healthy relationship if I am the only one who takes responsibility for my actions? She wants me to do all the heavy lifting, me to to do all the apologizing, and me to take all of the responsibility. I have been doing that for years, and it really takes a toll on you.

You are right, I should not have involved the kids in the family meeting. That was wrong. We were all together and I wanted to try to address the problem and talk about solutions. Frankly, I didn't want to be alone with her. But you are right, I was wrong there.

And I was wrong to fight in front of my kids. I understand that now. But what is it going to take for her to wake up, take some responsibility, and act like this relationship really means something to her?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

You need some de-escalation training.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

haveanicelife said:


> You are right, I should not have involved the kids in the family meeting. That was wrong. We were all together and I wanted to try to address the problem and talk about solutions. Frankly, I didn't want to be alone with her. But you are right, I was wrong there.
> 
> And I was wrong to fight in front of my kids. I understand that now.


Yep, bonehead move. BUT. Your wife dramatically leaving in front of young kids, seeing how upset they were about it? Way bigger bonehead move.


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## haveanicelife (Aug 5, 2016)

Look, I get that I screwed up here and there are a lot of things I should have differently. But my biggest hang up here, when does she take responsibility? There is plenty of responsibility to go around here. But she is not taking any of it. I have been doing this for years, and at some point it just looks incredibly selfish to me that she won't take any responsibility. I feel like everything revolves around her. I have to focus on her needs, meet her needs, whatever they are, sacrifice myself, always apologize, always fix things, always be wrong, always be the one fighting to keep the relationship together. It is exhausting.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

de-escalation training... yep that's what you need.

You both need to get into counseling. If she won't, then you do it on your own. 

It only takes one to de-escalate these situations. One person can unilaterally change a relationship.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

haveanicelife said:


> Look, I get that I screwed up here and there are a lot of things I should have differently. But my biggest hang up here, when does she take responsibility? There is plenty of responsibility to go around here. But she is not taking any of it. I have been doing this for years, and at some point it just looks incredibly selfish to me that she won't take any responsibility. I feel like everything revolves around her. I have to focus on her needs, meet her needs, whatever they are, sacrifice myself, always apologize, always fix things, always be wrong, always be the one fighting to keep the relationship together. It is exhausting.


There's no way that you can change her, either to get her to take responsibility or anything else. All you can do is control yourself.

Try to get her to go to marriage counseling (MC) with you, If she refuses, you have some thinking to do about your future and the future of your marriage.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

haveanicelife said:


> Part of my resentment is that I feel like everything is always my fault. My wife rarely apologizes and rarely takes responsibility for any of the problems. It is always my job to apologize to her, fix things, etc. That is exactly what happened tonight. I shared my feelings with her and she said nothing, did not apologize and did not take any responsibility. She seemed more eager to run out the door than try to have an adult conversation and fix things.


My wife is like this to, blames everyone else for every problem, never apologizes for any since nothing is EVER her fault. 

Perhaps the damage is already done. I think your kids, especially your daughter has learned the hard way that their mom is a very immature person they won't be able to count on.

As far as separation goes I really have never seen that work where the marriage is solid afterword. I think you really need to start asking some questions as to whether you want to divorce her. Of course she could be acting like this just to bait you into that. She obviously doesn't care about how the kids feel because she wouldn't have left the way she did if she cared.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

haveanicelife,

I as married to a man who was clearly worse than your wife in that he not only did the arguing, refusing to take responsibility, etc.. but also would throw things, break things and be physically abusive.

There are two things that I think really helped. 

The first is when I realized that I did not need to defend myself verbally from his outbursts. They were about him and inner anger, not about me. It was basically him yelling at himself. Once I realized that, I stopped trying to defend, explain, etc. That stopped at lest half if not more of his out bursts from turning into fights. 

And then I stop engaging. As soon as I realized that he was escalating and looking for a fight, would tell him to stop and that I would not talk to him any more until he had clamed down.

When things were clam I had told him that I was going to do this... that I would walk away every time things started to escalate and that it was his job to calm himself down. That way neither of us would say things that hurt the other and that made matters worse.

And I stuck by that. Once I started doing this, all of the arguing stopped. He got to the point that if he was escalating he'd grab his helmet and go on a bike ride. An hour or so later he'd come back in a much better mood.

De-escalation works.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Are you two having sex? If not, good riddance and you'll be loving life again in 6 months. If you have a good sex life, it might be repairable. If you haven't had sex in 1+ years, then it's hopeless. Get on with the separation and divorce. You come up with a schedule that works around your schedules and keep the kids first.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

You hinted that some things happened in the past. It would help if you can share what those things are to put everything in proper perspective.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

spinsterdurga said:


> No offense but why are you obsessed with sex?


Notice the first three letters of his username?


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## haveanicelife (Aug 5, 2016)

becareful2 said:


> You hinted that some things happened in the past. It would help if you can share what those things are to put everything in proper perspective.


There was infidelity. She had done some things and made some mistakes. I had forgiven her and moved past all of that. At least I thought I had. But all of this is kinda bringing all of those emotions back.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The first thing I thought when I read your OP was that your wife is cheating on you. I didn't say it, though, because we're always accused of bringing that up all the time. but D A M N, it's true way too freaking often.

You need to
1) start snooping and find out if she's cheating again
2) look back on what you did when you found out the first time and realize you did it wrong
3) depending what you find out, you may have to kick her lying cheating sorry a$$ out
4) STOP taking blame for HER actions, and DO NOT think that her cheating is your fault. DO NOT.

She's probably with the OM right now sorry to say.

Unfortunately your kids may have to take a back seat while you figure this out. Can they go to grammy and grampas or something?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

haveanicelife said:


> I had forgiven her and moved past all of that. At least I thought I had. But all of this is kinda bringing all of those emotions back.


You didn't forgive and move past. You let her get away with it. You rugswept it.

Have a read here
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Notice the first three letters of his username?


haha

Hey now...


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> The first thing I thought when I read your OP was that your wife is cheating on you. I didn't say it, though, because we're always accused of bringing that up all the time. but D A M N, it's true way too freaking often.
> 
> You need to
> 1) start snooping and find out if she's cheating again
> ...


I too when I read it this morning... when the OP stated wife is always on her phone and not engaged at home and the desperation to leave. I was going to question if there has been an affair in the past but hated to drive down that road so early.

OP, your children need counseling with you ASAP before they head back to school... please get them in and give them some resemblance of stabilization before then.


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## becareful2 (Jul 8, 2016)

haveanicelife said:


> *There was infidelity.* She had done some things and made some mistakes. I had forgiven her and moved past all of that. At least I thought I had. But all of this is kinda bringing all of those emotions back.


That little detail makes all the difference in the world.


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

spinsterdurga said:


> No offense but why are you obsessed with sex?


If there is no sex, there is no hope. End it now, don't drag it on for years. That is how my marriage went. I had no desire to have sex with my ex, the thought made me ill. But I held on for a long time because of the kids and stuff. I see a lot of people trying to save a marriage that shouldn't be saved and having frequent sex is the number one thing that tells me if the marriage has any hope.

I think a lot of people are embarrassed to admit they are in a sexless marriage and don't share those details. I for sure was, until I posted here.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Everytime I see this thread, I want to say, just leave them in the mall, that's what my parents did with me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

spinsterdurga said:


> If someone is in a bad marriage, there's hope as long as sex is frequent because sex fixes everything?




No. Sex doesn't fix everything but it can be used as a barometer of a spouse's attraction to their SO. A decent sex life shows there is still hope in turning things around. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

*There was infidelity. She had done some things and made some mistakes. I had forgiven her and moved past all of that. At least I thought I had. But all of this is kinda bringing all of those emotions back.
*

Heaven

just my $ .02. unless i missed something here, she has cheated on you and you have shown her no real consequences in the past, played the pick me game, and in her mind she got away with it so why not do it again. especially if it has happened more than once.

When women are in affairs, they fall in to two categories
(1)* compartmentalizers* are able to act perfectly normal at home, be great moms, have regular sex with hubby, and to all outside folks appear to be in a perfect marriage. These types are HARDER to catch. They have no intention of leaving hubby and feel entitled to have their fun.

(2) NON COMPARTMENTALIZERS- these women have to make hubby the enemy in order to justify what they are doing and to convince themselves they deserve it because you are the total bad guy. You are not appealing to her sexually because she has to be repulsed by you, and what easier way to do that than to argue with you from one end of the day until the other.

It is obvious your wife is checked out of this marriage right now, but you are clueless as to really why, and it is NOT due to YOU. You only get 50% of the responsibility for that.

my suggestion before you make any decisions is to find out what you are really dealing with. And she is NOT going to tell you so do not ask her. you need to go into CIA mode and get a VAR in her car and probably within a week you will know if there is another man on the horizon here who is now part of your marriage and her thought process.


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