# Drinking while spending time with kids?



## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

So my ex today...spent the day out on his parents boat with the kids drinking the whole time. Then he goes to a buddies and has a few more beers. I call several times to check on kids and arrange pickup with no answer from him. So I check the gps location of the phone (which I pay for/own but let him keep to maintain contact and avoid termination fees) and show up at his buddies to collect my children. He flips out calls me a crazy ***** and was clearly influenced. Due to his agressive response I notify the authorities of his condition and saw at a gas station he was being interrogated by the sheriff. He calls me to gloat about how he wasn't drunk enough for DUI so he would have been fine driving because he didn't blow a .08. He is currently telling me how much I am overreacting because I'm not going to let him take the kids out anywhere without supervision any longer. Am I way off base or is he?
As for the custody issue I've asked for visitation at my discression pending drug and alchol screening. He never responded so I will be filing for default judgement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Drinking on a boat, with his children there, then continuing to a buddies house and having more alcohol... he sounds selfish, irresponsible and possibly an alcoholic.

If my DH had the kids on his own, he simply wouldn't drink, end of story, and when I'm on my own with them, same story. Even at home together we are careful, because we may need to drive them to the hospital if something bad happens.

Drinking impairs judgement. A good parent doesn't risk the lives of their children.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

breeze said:


> Drinking impairs judgement.


What a massive generalization and IMHO overreaction.

The guy was tested and found to be UNDER the drink drive limit.
So if one of the kids HAD needed an emergency trip to the hospital (or wherever) he could have provided it. Unless this guy has a history with real drinking problems then I would be more worried about the effects the parent’s breakdown in communications and arguing / calling the cops in front of the kids.



breeze said:


> A good parent doesn't risk the lives of their children.


Please come and live in the real world, we all take risks everyday it is about judging the level of risk and talking precautions. How many families live in an active earthquake zone, within 100 miles of a nuclear power station, on a flood plain, near a “high crime” area?
Do you let your kids cross the road, drink un pasteurized milk, swim in the lake?


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## Cleigh (Dec 5, 2013)

Lol an alcoholic because he had a few drinks? Still I would get angry because you never know how much more he would of drunk before driving home with kids in the car...


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

My Dad used to take me to the pub with him when I was a kid. It was great.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Yep, we all take risks every day, why increase them? Why is drinking alcohol so important to people?

BTW, LOL to the 'massive generalization' statement. Yep, that's pretty much what it does, alcohol impairs judgement. Unless you were superman maybe, cause he's too awesome.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

breeze said:


> Yep, we all take risks every day, why increase them? Why is drinking alcohol so important to people?
> 
> BTW, LOL to the 'massive generalization' statement. Yep, that's pretty much what it does, alcohol impairs judgement. Unless you were superman maybe, cause he's too awesome.


The evidence is that he was not drunk. If he had a few drinks afterwards and was still not over the limit, then he must have drunk very little indeed.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

itzachicken said:


> So my ex today...spent the day out on his parents boat with the kids drinking the whole time. Then he goes to a buddies and has a few more beers.


If you weren't with him, how did you find out how much he drank?


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I see a nasty custody case in your future. Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

I think you overreacted. He wasn't sloppy drunk as evidenced by the low blood alcohol limit. If he "drank all day" out on the boat, he was responsible enough to spread them out and eat during the day as well or he certainly would have been over .08.

Yes, it impairs judgement. But it seems he was drinking responsibly. I'd much rather have my children see adults drinking responsibly than not seeing a parent ever have a drink. They learn the lesson of moderation from us. I saw my parents drink on occasion but I never saw them intoxicated. My daughter sees me have wine or a mixed drink a couple times a week but she hasn't ever seen me stumbling drunk.

And I wasn't aware that you could force supervised visitation without a court order. If you are in the US, it sounds like you would be violating the law by dictating the terms of his visitation time without such an order. Now ex has on record he was NOT legally impaired. Be careful - a judge may very well rule against your behavior here. 

A better solution would have simply been to text ex that, if you don't hear back from him in 20 minutes, you are coming to pick up the kids. And then do so. Did you raise your voice or complain about his behavior in front of the kids? Did the kids know you called the sheriff? You hung around long enough to see him being stopped - why?

You cannot micromanage his time with them.


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## Sun Catcher (Dec 6, 2013)

Please, please don't use your kids like that to get at your ex. Your post sounds so much like my sons ex and what she tried (and still tries) to do using their children that I actually had a gut wrench while reading your post. 

He had been drinking responsible and your more the fool for calling the police and subjecting your children to such a scene.

He is your ex, but he is the children's father and always will be. You need to get over the divorce and move on. Give your children the much needed time with their dad. Keep your negative thoughts about him to yourself. Don't ruin your children's childhood just because your divorced and obviously bitter.

My post may sound harsh, but I am sick to death of mothers using children as pawns, painting their fathers in a horrible light. What kind of real mother does that. Your damaging your children is all you are doing.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

How old are the children?

Get them each a cheap cell phone and teach them how to call the police if their daddy is going to drink and drive. No exceptions and no compromise.

I expect he will modify the behavior after being held accountable for it a few times. It won't merely be a DUI. It will be felony child endangerment. Drunk Driving Child Endangerment


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

breeze said:


> Yep, we all take risks every day, why increase them? Why is drinking alcohol so important to people?
> 
> BTW, LOL to the 'massive generalization' statement. Yep, that's pretty much what it does, alcohol impairs judgement. Unless you were superman maybe, cause he's too awesome.


EXCESSIVE alcohol consumption DOES impair judgment. 
But there is no evidence that the OP’s ex drank excessively in fact even she says he passed the breath test.
Driving whilst using a handheld phone and or driving whilst tired are both more dangerous than driving after a single drink. In many countries (including most of the EU) it is against the law to use a handheld phone whilst driving for that very reason.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

He could not possibly have been "drinking all day" on the boat or he would have blown a drunk.

I think you overreacted. The less your kids see of this kind of thing (one parent calling the cops on the other) the better off they will be. Those events can be very traumatic for kids. I know you thought you were doing the right thing, but now you know it was unnecessary drama.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It's hard to say - he wasn't legally drunk, and you don't know how much he drank on the boat. If he's driving while legally impaired, then you definitely have a point. On the other hand, you may be controlling and vindictive and out to find any excuse to escalate - I'm leaning towards that opinion so far.

It's not even a problem that he's drinking while on outings with the kids. Every adult did so when I grew up, but I will say that most did so responsibly. And that taught me to treat alcohol responsibly. The drunks and teetotalers are the ones who are likely to instill an unhealthy attitude towards alcohol, and their children are most likely to abuse it.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

.08 is a very small amount of booze so if he didn't even blow over that, he wasn't drunk.

Once you split you don't get to dictate what they do on their time. Unless the buddies house was a crack den or otherwise inappropriate for children, there is little anyone can do. The parent's boat sounds like a good choice, outdoors, away from the electronics,etc. Having a bit of booze while around your kids is not illegal, cps would not remove your children for it, it's not something that a court would want to bother with.

Would a Mother having a glass or two of wine on her night with the kids get supervised visitation? Of course not. So why would a Father who has a few beers? If I was the judge I would be annoyed by it all. 

You can't just decide what your ex does or doesn't do with his own kids and stop visits if he doesn't meet your expectations.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> I think you overreacted. The less your kids see of this kind of thing (one parent calling the cops on the other) the better off they will be. Those events can be very traumatic for kids. I know you thought you were doing the right thing, but now you know it was unnecessary drama.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

I actually think that you calling the cops and making a scene does more damage to the kids than a few drinks


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## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

My part was done out of earshot of the kids. I didn't even raise my voice he was agitated, agressive, and name calling, and justifying. He openly admitted to having 3 beers in the few hours at his buddies. He left a 4 loco in the diaper bag. His drinking and abusive behavior is what caused the distruction of the relationship, not to mention the exposure to the children of marijuanna cultivation. 
I'm all for responsible consumption at home and if an emergency arises do what you gotta do. I feel differently about knowingly going out and drinking then getting behind the wheel with the kids. Sure maybe he wasn't drunk but based on his own omission I believe he was teetering on the line. Having a few on the boat isn't the problem, its the continuing to do so afterward and then planning on getting into the car again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thepoet (Sep 8, 2013)

I can't speak anything for the character of your ex, but if he truly blew under the limit, that is not enough to be drunk. If you blow under the driving limit then you have for an average weight male had less than 2 standard drinks (keep in mind that your body will typically process 1 standard drink worth of alcohol every hour.) So if he is having 1 drink per hour over 7 hours, he could have 7 beers and not be impaired in the least.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

3 beers is not going to make the court give him supervised visitation and if you try to withhold his visits on your own YOU are going to look like the bad guy in court. 
You are overreacting by telling him he can't see the kids unsupervised anymore and it will likely blow up on you if you try.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> My part was done out of earshot of the kids. I didn't even raise my voice he was agitated, agressive, and name calling, and justifying. He openly admitted to having 3 beers in the few hours at his buddies. He left a 4 loco in the diaper bag. His drinking and abusive behavior is what caused the distruction of the relationship, not to mention the exposure to the children of marijuanna cultivation.
> I'm all for responsible consumption at home and if an emergency arises do what you gotta do. I feel differently about knowingly going out and drinking then getting behind the wheel with the kids. Sure maybe he wasn't drunk but based on his own omission I believe he was teetering on the line. Having a few on the boat isn't the problem, its the continuing to do so afterward and then planning on getting into the car again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP,

His history is relevant and it does show us why you where concerned but I do think you need to get things into perspective, three (12 oz cans or bottles) of the 3-4 % abv beer that seems to be so popular in the US over the cause of several hours IS drinking responsibly. 

BTW I have no idea what a "4 loco" is so I don't know if leaving it in the change bag is relevant.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

So he has a history of over-consumption that was detrimental to your marriage? I'm guessing by now he has learned that he will need to be careful around the kids. I'm glad you called out of hearing of the kids and I understand being frustrated that he wouldn't answer when you wanted to arrange a time for pick up. He probably wasn't ready to end his time with them and was avoiding it or maybe he couldn't hear it. I know when ex is on his boat, his phone is stashed in the water proof glove compartment. I suggest you set the time in advance and you can avoid frustration and panic at not being able to reach them.

I do think the kids could have a phone if one of them is 6 or so - even a simple one that allows for calls only to you, ex and 911 (or more depending on ages). You can't make future predictions on what he would have consumed had you not shown up but at least if the kids have a phone they can call you if Dad wants to put them in the car and they aren't comfortable with that.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Wiltshireman said:


> OP,
> 
> His history is relevant and it does show us why you where concerned but I do think you need to get things into perspective, three (12 oz cans or bottles) of the 3-4 % abv beer that seems to be so popular in the US over the cause of several hours IS drinking responsibly.
> 
> BTW I have no idea what a "4 loco" is so I don't know if leaving it in the change bag is relevant.


"4 loco" is a canned, caffeinated, alcohol beverage of moderate popularity in the USA.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

And re: 4 loco - I looked it up: 

Four Loko — contains either 6%, 7%, 8%, or 12% alcohol by volume (ABV), depending on state regulations, and is packaged in 23.5 oz. (695 mL) cans


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> 3 beers is not going to make the court give him supervised visitation and if you try to withhold his visits on your own YOU are going to look like the bad guy in court.
> You are overreacting by telling him he can't see the kids unsupervised anymore and it will likely blow up on you if you try.


Not only that but if their is a court ordered custody agreement you will be arrested for violating it. 

I can't understand how people break up then think they still have control over the other person. You don't. My suggestion would be to find something to occupy your time when he is with his kids and let him be. When I have my daughters I have a beer from time to time. When my Broncos play alittle more :rofl:


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

breeze said:


> Yep, we all take risks every day, why increase them? Why is drinking alcohol so important to people?
> 
> BTW, LOL to the 'massive generalization' statement. Yep, that's pretty much what it does, alcohol impairs judgement. Unless you were superman maybe, cause he's too awesome.


Sorry, My husband and I always have a few drinks on a Saturday night, we enjoy ONE night where we can just wind down and chill, and we have young children to look after, and we still do, and very well.

You can drink alcohol and still behave responsibly........

This man was NOT over the Limit so it goes to show, that if he was drinking all day then he was clearly not pissing it up, because like the OP stated it was proven by that sheriff that stopped him that he was indeed NOT over the limit.

OP said drinking on the boat all day, well he could not have been drinking that much could he??

I can sometimes have a drink, but have the same drink half hour later still in my hand when i am socializing. Just because you have children does not mean you cant have a drink or two, or hell three.

Its all about knowing your limits.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

What does your current and active court order for parenting time say?

1.) It was his time. Don't invade that. Not your place to. 
2.) He was tested by an LEO and found to be under the legal limit to drive. 
3.) You stalked him. I don't care about who "owns" the phone any more than the court does. It's a reasonable expectation of privacy. It comes to the same thing when recording video in a home you both occupy, etc. 
4.) You're presumptuous and controlling. He didn't miss a pickup. You tracked him down.

If you really want to change the custody situation you need for HIM to screw up and for you to document it. Wait until he's not at the regularly scheduled exchange location at the appropriate time. Go to a location nearby and purchase a pack of gum, pop, whatever. Save the receipt for the time stamp and location info to show you were at least in the neighborhood. Make some phone calls asking where he is. Call LE to document. 

But stalking him out using find my phone is only going to hurt you in the end. If I was him I'd give the phone to a buddy the next time around with $100 and directions to a stripclub just to screw with you.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Diaper bag? This is a baby? How old?

Boating under the influence and Driving under the influence are illegal and dangerous.

You did the right thing to call the cops. If the children are too young to use a cell phone, I think you should call the cops any time you are aware of him jeopardizing the life of your child drinking and boating or driving.

Seriously, I don't know what some of these posters are thinking??? The baby's LIFE is in danger. So what, he got off this time? Just makes him ****ier @ being reckless.

(Absolutely NOTHING to do with D, custody, etc. I am M to my H and I would call the cops in an instant if H was driving or boating with them under the influence. ZERO TOLERANCE for that!!!)


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

You have to do some serious soul-searching and ask yourself what's really best for your kids. It's not an easy question. But is your husband's behavior so bad that it outweighs the benefits of children growing up with a father?


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## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

So "missing" phone calls for 3 and a half hours is ok? I didn't realize keeping the kids till over an hour past exchange time and not answering phone calls was acceptable. Ironically enough he crashed his truck braising a telephone pole last night he thinks. He's been calling nonstop to try and get me to come get him. So in theory I could be telling my kids their dad is dead this morning. Nope I had nothing to worry about. Thanks!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> So "missing" phone calls for 3 and a half hours is ok? I didn't realize keeping the kids till over an hour past exchange time and not answering phone calls was acceptable. Ironically enough he crashed his truck braising a telephone pole last night he thinks. He's been calling nonstop to try and get me to come get him. So in theory I could be telling my kids their dad is dead this morning. Nope I had nothing to worry about. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know what braising a telephone pole entails, but I imagine it would require a very large pan.

No, seriously, you have to find a way to take your personal anger with him out of this and figure out whether his behavior is so bad that his own children shouldn't see him, and make sure you're not using them as pawns in your own personal anger/control game with him. You really can't expect the internet to be a fair judge of that, because we're only getting your side of the story, so if people agree with you it doesn't necessarily mean you're right. Is your husband an alcoholic or just a guy who as a couple beers with his kids around? Does he have past DUI's?


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> So "missing" phone calls for 3 and a half hours is ok? I didn't realize keeping the kids till over an hour past exchange time and not answering phone calls was acceptable. *Ironically enough he crashed his truck braising a telephone pole last night he thinks.* He's been calling nonstop to try and get me to come get him. So in theory I could be telling my kids their dad is dead this morning. Nope I had nothing to worry about. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He thinks? Did he black out behind the wheel? Scary!

Any legal repercussion pending for this?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

What do you mean by "come get him." Jail? A tow yard?


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> So "missing" phone calls for 3 and a half hours is ok? I didn't realize keeping the kids till over an hour past exchange time and not answering phone calls was acceptable. Ironically enough he crashed his truck braising a telephone pole last night he thinks. He's been calling nonstop to try and get me to come get him. So in theory I could be telling my kids their dad is dead this morning. Nope I had nothing to worry about. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No point in getting narky with other posters, you should have explained yourself more clearly

You failed to mention the fact you called for over 3 hours on numerous occasions, you just said you called to arrange pick up and could not get through, that is a hell of a lot different as you have reason to worry.....


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

Independent of custody issues, if he is drinking and driving or boating, I hope he loses his license (except for commuting to work). Hopefully that will rein him in enough that OP is not burying dead children.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

itzachicken said:


> So "missing" phone calls for 3 and a half hours is ok? I didn't realize keeping the kids till over an hour past exchange time and not answering phone calls was acceptable. Ironically enough he crashed his truck braising a telephone pole last night he thinks. He's been calling nonstop to try and get me to come get him. So in theory I could be telling my kids their dad is dead this morning. Nope I had nothing to worry about. Thanks!


The fact that he does have issues makes it _more _important for you to stop with the nitpicking the small, legal stuff. You won't be looked at well in court if you come in with a long list of everything he did that you don't like. If you have a serious complaint, document it but forget all the other crap (like having a few beers) as it doesn't look favourably on you.

I would also advise to not get the cops involved unless he is doing something illegal - and he didn't when you called them this time. They aren't there to play custody court and he'll have documented proof that he was in the legal limit and you are being irrational.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Raising kids in split households is a real challenge. One of the hardest parts is letting go of how your former partner chooses to raise the kids. Unless it's criminal there is nothing you can do about it. You do your best to impose your morals and values on them and hope if the other parent is a negative influence the kids eventually figure it out and turn away from that lifestyle. Frustrating but true. 

We have a tendency, particularly if we're angry or hurt, to assume the worst of the ex. Often times things are not near as bad as (in a way) we want them to be so we can justify our anger against the ex.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

MaritimeGuy said:


> Raising kids in split households is a real challenge. One of the hardest parts is letting go of how your former partner chooses to raise the kids. Unless it's criminal there is nothing you can do about it. You do your best to impose your morals and values on them and hope if the other parent is a negative influence the kids eventually figure it out and turn away from that lifestyle. Frustrating but true.
> 
> We have a tendency, particularly if we're angry or hurt, to assume the worst of the ex. Often times things are not near as bad as (in a way) we want them to be so we can justify our anger against the ex.


I totally agree with this post as i have been guilty of it.

You want them to do something wrong so you can attack them with it.....Not saying that is what is happening here, but it happens a lot.

Same goes with using the children as weapons.... never a good thing.

Not saying OP is doing it, but you do see it a lot.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

itzachicken said:


> So "missing" phone calls for 3 and a half hours is ok? I didn't realize keeping the kids till over an hour past exchange time and not answering phone calls was acceptable. Ironically enough he crashed his truck braising a telephone pole last night he thinks. He's been calling nonstop to try and get me to come get him. So in theory I could be telling my kids their dad is dead this morning. Nope I had nothing to worry about. Thanks!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You failed to say in your original post he had missed the exchange time. You were within your rights to go and get them. While the kids were in his care, he was not legally intoxicated, however.

I'm sure after that little scene he tied one on and used pretty poor judgement when driving. But the kids weren't with him and it's not up to you to rescue him.

My hope is that he was biding his time to drink more until after the kids went home. But the judge is only going to smack his wrist for missing the exchange time.

ETA - I'm not advocating his behavior and perhaps he was in a "party" mood that doesn't gel well with parenting time. BUT I'm being objective and that's what the law will do. You are going to HAVE to view situations objectively if you are going to pursue supervised visitation.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

Clearly, the OP didn't give enough information about the past and the present in the original post for any of us to make informed comments. So, the comments really reflect the individual posters' experiences with alcohol.

I drink. Does that make me a danger to my kids? If your answer is yes, consider this, I drink about one drink a week, and never more that one if I'm driving. Still a danger?

The OP said that his drinking contributed to their problems. Is that because the OP is a teetotaler, so any alcohol consumption would lead to conflict? Or because he came home falling-down drunk every week?

From the facts presented in the original post, I couldn't conclude that the exH did anything wrong. I've been on a boat where there has been beer. No one got stumbling drunk, just refreshed. And not every adult drank. Does this fit the facts of this situation? Who knows? But the Breathalyzer sure supports that scenario more than one where the kids were put at significant risk.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Blonde said:


> Independent of custody issues, if he is drinking and driving or boating, I hope he loses his license (except for commuting to work). Hopefully that will rein him in enough that OP is not burying dead children.


Did you read her post? She called the cops and he was BELOW THE LEGAL LIMIT. He was NOT legally impaired. Having a few beers over the course of the day and driving is legal - within the limit of the law. Had he been OVER the legal limit and driving the boat (or anything) that would be a problem. Again, he was not legally intoxicated and she was 'helpful' enough to prove it for all concerned.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

EnjoliWoman said:


> You failed to say in your original post he had missed the exchange time. You were within your rights to go and get them. While the kids were in his care, he was not legally intoxicated, however.


But...the OP says that he missed calls for 3 1/2 hours, but he missed the exchange by an hour. That means she started calling him 2 1/2 hours before the exchange. Why? It was still on "his" time. He had no obligation to answer her calls then. I don't know, but maybe those earlier calls (how many, OP?) ticked him off to be late with the exchange.

I'm just sensing that we're not hearing a full and balanced telling of the tale.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What if the children were placed as the priority? The legal limit means nothing compared with the safety of children. If his father thought of them and not himself, he would avoid drinking when he drives with them. That is not too much to ask. He could have made the outing for his children's enjoyment given that he sees them part-time. 

He can party anytime. The legal limit does not insure that there is no impairment in driving. Also, if he careless enough to drink 2 beers and drive with his kids, he is likely to try a beer or two more next time. 

You are not overreaching, you are protecting your children. You can make no drinking part of the custody agreement especially if he has had problems. Children first if he can't do that for his children then he is not safe to have them without a responsible adult. Follow your instinct.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

papa5280 said:


> But...the OP says that he missed calls for 3 1/2 hours, but he missed the exchange by an hour. That means she started calling him 2 1/2 hours before the exchange. Why? It was still on "his" time. He had no obligation to answer her calls then. I don't know, but maybe those earlier calls (how many, OP?) ticked him off to be late with the exchange.
> 
> I'm just sensing that we're not hearing a full and balanced telling of the tale.


Taking a phone call from a parent is a problem because it's his time? Come on. This is not about him and his time. If she wants to call about her children then the call should be taken. Not taking it is petty and childish. A mature parent with their priorities strait would have taken the call and reassured the mother. If he rather have a tx then he should have requested that. 

Sounds like she did the right thing D him. He seems selfish, irresponsible and petty.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

When a parent's calls continually interrupts the other parent's visitation time, it becomes an issue. They can even get to the point where the court orders you not to call during their time. 
He was out on a boat for most of the visit, not the best place to have his phone out in the open. 

OP- I read through another thread of yours, was this incident party because of your father? You mention that your Dad has called the cops on him without provocation before too. Also that he hangs up on your ex when he tries to talk to the kids, is he still behaving that way? It could be contributing to your ex not picking up your calls too.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> The legal limit means nothing compared with the safety of children. If his father thought of them and not himself, he would avoid drinking when he drives with them. That is not too much to ask. He could have made the outing for his children's enjoyment given that he sees them part-time.
> 
> He can party anytime. The legal limit does not insure that there is no impairment in driving. Also, if he careless enough to drink 2 beers and drive with his kids, he is likely to try a beer or two more next time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So, what is your standard? Zero alcohol any time the children are around? That adults are not allowed to engage in legal behavior around kids?

Not all drinking is the same. I agree that getting sloppy drunk around the kids is verboten. Also, driving a boat or car impaired is off the table. But, I don't see any evidence that any of this happened. In fact, the legal evidence suggests otherwise.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> When a parent's calls continually interrupts the other parent's visitation time, it becomes an issue. They can even get to the point where the court orders you not to call during their time.
> He was out on a boat for most of the visit, not the best place to have his phone out in the open.


He possibly had no signal on the water, too.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

There are plenty of areas near me that have bad signal when boating. Many people turn off their phone when we boat together on the St Lawrence to avoid the roaming charges when our data picks up on the Canadian towers also. Just a thought.

But, when I went through my divorce 5 years ago, my ex would always attempt to inject herself into my time. So much so that we ended up in court over it. The Judge's advice was to let it roll to VoiceMail and reply to only those things that truly required my attention. So if you have over 3 hours of missed calls and over an hour late for exchange you're looking at a guesstimated 2 hours of attempted needless injection. That probably was part the reason, although it's a bad reason, that missed the exchange. The OP's actions probably spawned some spite from her ex.

Let's get some perspective. When we're married. In a functional and healthy family. Parents don't tell the other parent how to parent. It's accepted and trusted that each are capable. When we divorce, this shouldn't change. We are still parents. Each being capable until proven otherwise. 

For all 17 years my daughter has lived, some of that time while I was married to her mother and some now with her step-mother, I have ordered a couple beers at lunch when we go someplace that serves. Never intoxicated. Now why should it matter if I'm married or not? Am I really not supposed to touch a beer because I'm a parent? Do we still have Puritans in this day passing out judgement like this?

But either way, I notice the OP never answered and clarified my original question. What orders are in place from a court in regards to parenting time? What does it say about exchange times/locations/supervision; would be my full question.

If his drinking was so egregious at the time of divorce then a motion and push for supervised parenting should have been made to the court at that time. Was it? Was it turned down?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

papa5280 said:


> He possibly had no signal on the water, too.


Or as I mentioned, my ex puts his phone in the waterproof compartment and wouldn't be able to hear his phone and would have no reason to check it except to see the time. 

It was his time and you should just show up to the meeting place at the appointed time. If he's late, THEN call. After a half hour late with no call, I'd call the police.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

EnjoliWoman said:


> Or as I mentioned, my ex puts his phone in the waterproof compartment and wouldn't be able to hear his phone and would have no reason to check it except to see the time.
> 
> It was his time and you should just show up to the meeting place at the appointed time. If he's late, THEN call. After a half hour late with no call, I'd call the police.


:iagree:

Adding - What documentation did you get about him missing the exchange? You did get something to show the court. Yes? You are saving up the documentation of missed exchanges so you can either roll them into a modification or file a contempt charge at some point and ask for a remedy or time. Yes?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Chicken,

You never explained in your first post that you tried calling for over 3 hours, that he has a serious drinking problem, and that his drinking was a big part of your divorce. We can only respond to the facts you give us. Most people here truly do want to help, but we don't want to turn around and be lectured as to why we are all wrong!

Just sayin...


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Seems like both parents have an axe to grind with each other.


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## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

To answer some questions: 
our current custody agreement is verbal between us. The court has a motion filed and he did not respond. We were on a path to reconciliation so I have not yet filed for a default judgement. I have already asked for drug/alcohol screening before he can have overnights.
He generally takes them while I'm at work. If he takes them more the kids are allowed to call at any time. I do the same for him.
We were considering reconciliation, hence why he called me this morning. He trashed the front end of his truck hitting a telephone pole. He says he wasn't that drunk. He managed to park the car before cops arrived.
My father finally got over his issues with him
I called 3 times all day.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

If you are considering reconciling then he must be a good enough father for you to be ok having him with your kids every day. 

If he's not a good enough father to be trusted around his kids without supervision, there shouldn't be any talk about him moving back in with you and them.

I'm glad that your father got over his issues and I hope it didn't rub off on you some. Him calling the cops for no reason and hanging up on him would not have helped to create a peaceful co-parent relationship, now you are the one calling the cops and it has the same effect.

Is pot the drug you are talking about? In many cases that (and the light drinking) will not have any bearing in custody matters so I'd be prepared for them to give him overnights regardless. You should talk to a lawyer.


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## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

He is not a light drinker. Sloppy drunk 4 to 5 nights a week and pass out drunk at least 2, skips a night sometimes. Mostly pot but has also been known to buy prescription drugs off friends. It's like he doesn't have an off switch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

We have spent a couple of months being pretty peaceful. I've noticed over the last month how his drinking habits slowly have been escalating. I have held on to hope that he would realize how much his habits hurt me in the past and that he would truly change the future. I should probably go to alanon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> He is not a light drinker. Sloppy drunk 4 to 5 nights a week and pass out drunk at least 2, skips a night sometimes. Mostly pot but has also been known to buy prescription drugs off friends. It's like he doesn't have an off switch.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If this is the case then WHY would you consider reconciliation??

I know if i was living with somebody that had a drink or drug problem, and they were smashing cars up and such then i would be seriously thinking whether i would want to be with someone like that. 

Somebody who was sloppy drunk 4 or 5 times a week would not be somebody i would be staying with if he could not get help for it.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

Ah. This answers it much better. There is no court order in place. So there is no exchange time to miss. He is their father and you are their mother. Until a court orders differently, you both have the same exact parenting rights, roles and responsibilities as though you were a loving, functional and healthy familial unit. 

So what really happened is...

Your husband took the children out for an outing together without you. You decided it was time for them to come back to you. You called him a few times over a couple hours where he failed to answer his phone for whatever reason. You then called the police. Who did nothing except give a field sobriety because aside form that there was nothing they really could do because you both have equal access to the children. In the end, you're mad about that.

Reconcile or divorce. If you are contemplating reconciliation with someone you describe as being an alcoholic drug user, you don't really think he's truly bad enough to require supervised access. I guess I'm suggesting you make up your mind about your opinion of your husband. Decide what you want. And take action accordingly. But sensibly.

Until you have a court order though, there is no custody agreement. You have a verbal understanding of how you're trying to make a screwed up situation work until you figure it out. It's not something that would hold up in court. Without proper documentation you'll look like a vexatious litigant by bringing it up, if you bring it up along with enough other trivial stuff. Figure out what you want, how to best get it, go for it.

Don't mistake it for being harsh or unsupportive. What I wrote above is fully supportive but is written to hopefully help you put your feet back on the ground and focus for the best interests of your children.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

A curious question though...

Could he be suffering PTSD or depression and self-medicating with the Pot, Pain pills and alcohol rather than being a true alcoholic? Any family history of depression, Bi-Polar, Borderline PD?

Asking because of the escalation. Could be a number of reasons but I'm not sure of his history with alcohol, etc.


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## itzachicken (Oct 17, 2012)

Thank you. You've about summed things up. We have however never been a happy functioning family. I have constantly had my own set of doubts about his ability with the children. I want him in their lives but do not feel I can trust him. I do not think he would hurt them intentionally but his desire to "party" has always taken a priority and normally "partying" leads to stupidity.

He's been drinking/smoking daily since his late teens/early 20's. His father is most defiantly undiagnosed bpd. His mom has a history of alcoholism and depression. He describes his childhood as rough. When he was 2 or 3 his mom left his father who at the time had a serious drug problem. She remarried to an alcoholic and shipped her kids back to his dad when he was 7 because they were interfering with her fun (that came from her mouth once). He didn't hear from his mom till he was 17 again and began visits semi regularly. At 20ish was charged with felony cultivation in North Carolina, and moved to California as part of a plea bargain. He has not had much of a relationship with either parent while we were together but started to bond with his mom again about a year ago when she and her husband started drinking again after 15 years of sobriety.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I see a lot of arguments that he wasn't drunk, so it's all good. I don't think people realise that alcohol does actually affect you before the point of you falling down drunk.

Impairment in performance begins at below 0.02% BAC (1 to 1-1/2 drinks can result in this level).
{NIAAA - Alcohol Problems and Aging: 1998 U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services. 

At low doses the effects of alcohol may include alterations in mood, cognition, anxiety level, and motor performance. It may also impair performance several hours after the blood alcohol level has gone down. Even slightly elevated levels result in more fatal accidents, and the majority of individuals who experience a problem related to alcohol use are light and moderate drinkers.
{Department of Health and Human Services in their reports to Congress 1990 and 1993} 

One to two drinks of alcohol impair mental and physical abilities; mental processes such as restraint, awareness, concentration and judgment are affected, reaction time slowed, and an inability to perform complicated tasks.
{“The Effects of Alcohol and Other Drugs,” Motorcycle Safety Foundation, Irvine, CA, 1991} 

Any blood alcohol level, even a BAC of 0.02%, the result of just one drink, increases the risk of a crash. Alcohol impairs nearly every aspect of the brain’s ability to process information, as well as the eye’s ability to focus and react to light.
{University of California, Berkeley, Wellness Letter, Jan. 1998}


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Most people find that they can consume one drink (one unit) per hour without any ill effects.

Drinking & Driving


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

breeze said:


> I see a lot of arguments that he wasn't drunk, so it's all good. I don't think people realise that alcohol does actually effect you before the point of you falling down drunk.
> 
> Impairment in performance begins at below 0.02% BAC (1 to 1-1/2 drinks can result in this level).
> {NIAAA - Alcohol Problems and Aging: 1998 U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.
> ...


Staying up late to watch a TV programme will also have an effect the next day. I never drink and drive, I will not touch alccohol at all if I am driving, however, I do not sense grounds for panic in the original post. 

If he is actually drinking large amounts most days, that is a cause for concern. I have the impression, possibly nonsense, the the OP's genuine distress is making it hard for her to explain the situation.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I have to admit I guessed that the panic would be due to knowing what he's capable of, and someone drinking while on a boat and continuing to drink even when driving, despite possibly staying under a legal limit (which is .05 where I live), whilst being the sole caretaker of their children, well, it's sort of obvious where his priorities lay. If he can't lay off the booze for a few hours while taking care of his kids, it really does say a lot about him; and no, it's not the same as having a glass of wine or two with your partner after kids have gone to bed, this is obviously not that.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

breeze said:


> I have to admit I guessed that the panic would be due to knowing what he's capable of, and someone drinking while on a boat and continuing to drink even when driving, despite possibly staying under a legal limit (which is .05 where I live), whilst being the sole caretaker of their children, well, it's sort of obvious where his priorities lay. If he can't lay off the booze for a few hours while taking care of his kids, it really does say a lot about him; and no, it's not the same as having a glass of wine or two with your partner after kids have gone to bed, this is obviously not that.


When I was a kid, my Dad would go to the pub to have a beer and meet friends. There was a garden with swings etc and I would often enjoy going along with him. We walked there and back. I would never have thought of my Dad's behaviour as irresponsible then of now.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

You're describing a different scenario to the OP's and applying my principles to other people's parenting, or their parent's parenting is probably pointless.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

breeze said:


> You're describing a different scenario to the OP's and applying my principles to other people's parenting, or their parent's parenting is probably pointless.


Indeed, and FWIW I think we would reach an understanding in person very quickly. The original post provided very little actual evidence of alcohol abuse. She wrote he had been drinking all day while boating, but that covers careering around drunk in charge of a child to having a couple of beers at a family occasion - a very large amount of grey. 

That he had passed a test was one of the few hard facts, which suggested she had over reacted. 

Further posts after the initial reaction suggest it is a bigger issue.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> He trashed the front end of his truck hitting a telephone pole. He says he wasn't that drunk. He managed to park the car before cops arrived.


^Did YOU read her posts, Enjoli Woman???

The first time she mentioned the accident she said "he THINKS he braised the truck on a telephone pole"

He was drunk enough that he doesn't even remember.

OP, I'm sorry that he didn't get cited. If I was the mom, I would not feel that my children are safe with a man who will drink and drive like this. 

If his license is suspended and he is compliant with the suspension, and he is not a violent drunk, then I have no objection to him having visitation with the children. The drinking and driving/boating is downright scary though!


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

If he gets cited and gets his license suspended, he will still be able to work BTW as they are given a provisional license allowing them to drive only back and forth to work.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> I should probably go to alanon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was going to suggest that. I think you will find it helps you think more clearly.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

itzachicken said:


> He is not a light drinker. Sloppy drunk 4 to 5 nights a week and pass out drunk at least 2, skips a night sometimes. Mostly pot but has also been known to buy prescription drugs off friends. It's like he doesn't have an off switch.


I'd pray he gets caught. If it was ME, I'd call the police on illegal activity. Unless you are in Colarado or Washington, the pot is illegal. Buying prescription drugs off friends is illegal. And pass out drunk wrecking a car on a telephone pole is illegal.

In Al-Anon you will learn that covering for him is enabling behavior. He needs to hit bottom and being held accountable legally might get him there.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Blonde said:


> ^Did YOU read her posts, Enjoli Woman???
> 
> The first time she mentioned the accident she said "he THINKS he braised the truck on a telephone pole"
> 
> ...


Yes, I did - he grazed a telephone pole without being sure, which was MUCH later that night. Either he was tired or he had consumed more alcohol AFTER she took the kids home.

Obviously as she has shared more detail he has a problem and therefore she has zero tolerance because he can't be trusted to stop when he needs to. Based on her own facts, however, he was NOT intoxicated while boating with them. 

It does sound like he has a problem; based on his family history, it is very likely he is self-medicating. But if he doesn't seek out help this is likely not going to change.

I think she should move for a divorce, share limited visitation with the consent that he doesn't drink while he has the kids and if he is ever found to be intoxicated while caring for the kids, his visitation be limited to supervised visitation. Or even give him a set amount of time to complete an alcohol assessment or make unsupervised visitation contingent upon AA meetings, etc.


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## tryingtodoitright (Jan 14, 2014)

Wiltshireman said:


> What a massive generalization and IMHO overreaction.
> 
> The guy was tested and found to be UNDER the drink drive limit.
> So if one of the kids HAD needed an emergency trip to the hospital (or wherever) he could have provided it. Unless this guy has a history with real drinking problems then I would be more worried about the effects the parent’s breakdown in communications and arguing / calling the cops in front of the kids.
> ...


agreed to all. i'll say this: the original post is from someone who clearly has a bone to pick with him and this likely colors her depiction of events. she likely has no way to know how many drinks he had and when unless the kids were monitoring the situation. if she's using them as spies, then there are issues with that as well...

that being said, he should be responsible and not drink too much. having a beer or two around the kids (or more over a longer stretch) isn't a big deal as long as he was appropriately responsible imho.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

breeze said:


> I see a lot of arguments that he wasn't drunk, so it's all good. I don't think people realise that alcohol does actually affect you before the point of you falling down drunk.


That is true. A small amount of alcohol impairs a person only very slightly. Another factor in reaction time and decision making is age. A 25 year-old driver can drink a few beers and still have better reaction times than an older driver.

So, to maximize safety, as well as hysteria, do you suggest that only young adults be allowed to drive children around? Should a grandparent, even a sober one, be required to hire a 25 year-old to drive children around?

Can this be seen as a way that people who wait to have children are irresponsible? A woman having a baby when she is 40 will be less safe, in terms of reaction time, driving that baby around than she would have been in her twenties. That same mother will be 55 years old before she can relinquish the wheel to her child. And 30 years takes a toll on reaction times.

It seems that worrying about negligible amounts of impairment is just jumping down the rabbit hole. Do you insist that all drivers of your children lead active lifestyles, since sedentary lifestyles are correlated with slower reaction times? So, ultimately, you could require all people who drive your children be 25-35 year-old, teetotaling, active people who have recently attended a driving safety class.

Not for me. I think it's reasonable enough to keep drunk people from driving my kids around. Yes, it's possible that a driver with a low BAC (i.e. a sober driver) will crash the car. It's also possible that a meteorite will fall out of the sky and smack my kids on the head. But I don't make them wear helmets outdoors.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

breeze said:


> Impairment in performance begins at below 0.02% BAC (1 to 1-1/2 drinks can result in this level).
> {NIAAA - Alcohol Problems and Aging: 1998 U.S. Dept. of Health and Human Services.
> 
> 
> ...


Is it your proposal that we prohibit all alcohol consumption by anyone who is in the care of anyone under 18? Because, it sounds like that's what you're advocating.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

breeze said:


> If he can't lay off the booze for a few hours while taking care of his kids, it really does say a lot about him; and no, it's not the same as having a glass of wine or two with your partner after kids have gone to bed, this is obviously not that.


Is this maybe setting the bar a might high? 

I'm pretty sure that I had a beer while also being the sole adult in charge of my children a time or two while they were growing up. Seems to me a lot of the children living in Europe manage just fine in a world where drinking at home, even by those under age, is commonplace.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Is this maybe setting the bar a might high?
> 
> I'm pretty sure that I had a beer while also being the sole adult in charge of my children a time or two while they were growing up. Seems to me a lot of the children living in Europe manage just fine in a world where drinking at home, even by those under age, is commonplace.


In the UK at least you would have to be under the age of 5 to drink "under age" at home.

Here it is legal for a child aged 5 to 16 to drink alcohol at home or on other private premises with the consent of a parent or guardian.

None of this (stupid IMHO) not even a beer until your 21 “rubbish” you have in the US.

BTW my wife and I allow our children to have wine with a meal etc once they become teenagers.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

I have a drink now and then, but in all honesty, what's the purpose behind drinking and the effects of it that people would want a 5-16yr old child to be doing it? It's not about whether you can, it's about whether you should.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

breeze said:


> I have a drink now and then, but in all honesty, what's the purpose behind drinking and the effects of it that people would want a 5-16yr old child to be doing it? It's not about whether you can, it's about whether you should.


I was given wine by the church when I was thirteen. Of course, it was just a sip. There are two purposes to alcoholic drinks, firstly taste and secondly to get drunk. It is possible to have the first without the second.


I am pretty sure that caffeinated alcoholilc drinks and Miller Lite only fall into the second.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

breeze said:


> I have a drink now and then, but in all honesty, what's the purpose behind drinking and the effects of it that people would want a 5-16yr old child to be doing it? It's not about whether you can, it's about whether you should.



Personally we did not let the girls have wine with meals until they were 13 but I know people who have started earlier

Why might a parent want / let their child start drinking under 16.

Learning to drink reasonably,
Removing the mystery "forbidden fruit" allure,
Providing a safe place for their first experience,
Custom or religious observance (communion), 

It is nice to share a couple of glasses of wine over Sunday Dinner or a jug of Pimm’s & Lemonade with a summer BBQ.

Sooner a society that allows / encourages responsible drinking under your parents supervision than one that tell the young service personnel returning from an 18 month tour of Afghanistan that he / she is not “responsible” enough to have a glass of beer with the men and women who have shared in the experience with them.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wiltshireman said:


> Why might a parent want / let their child start drinking under 16.
> 
> Learning to drink reasonably,
> Removing the mystery "forbidden fruit" allure,
> ...


Combined with laws that have real teeth for drunk driving, and it's pretty clear empirically that you folks have a much healthier relationship with the grape than we do here in the states. Which was sorta my point.


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