# Can sex be truly fulfilling without an orgasm?



## GavinM (Jan 13, 2014)

I think this is a question which often gets answered in a 'politically correct' way but I'm curious to hear what others think about this; especially from women. 

To be clear, I don't mean to imply that the only good part of sex is the orgasm or that sometimes sex without an orgasm can't also be great, because I know it can. But rather if you can never, or virtually never achieve orgasm during sex does this become frustrating? Or at least boring in a long term relationship? 

I realize that there is a lot more to intercourse than just the physical interaction. The emotional connection and intimacy can at times far outweigh any amount of physical pleasure, but over the long run is this enough without any climax? If you're always left 'hanging' so to speak? 

As a man I know that I would get pretty frustrated if I was to have regular sex and enjoy all there is to enjoy about the process, the anticipation, the foreplay etc but then not ever be able to finish, to never be able to have an orgasm. Is this the similar for women? 

A recent conversation with a female friend of mine. as well of experiences with my wife throughout our marriage have lead me to believe that being able to reach orgasm can be pretty important and that this might explain some issues we struggle with in our sex life.

I'm curious to hear from others and would appreciate any thoughts on this.
Thanks


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

GavinM said:


> A recent conversation with a female friend of mine. as well of experiences with my wife throughout our marriage have lead me to believe that being able to reach orgasm can be pretty important and that this might explain some issues we struggle with in our sex life.


One thing I will tell you with certainty is that if a woman is having trouble achieving orgasm, compelling it to happen *HAS TO BE something she wants!!!!!!!
*
Otherwise a husband forcing his wife to orgasm in an attempt to improve the relationship WILL PROVE DETRIMENTAL.

Odds are she orgasms fine on her own, but for whatever reason she does not feel comfortable sharing this. There are also individuals that claim to be somewhat asexual and have no innate urges to orgasm. 

Regards,
Badsanta


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

I would say it would depend if the person had ever experienced an orgasm. 

Before I ever had one, I had fulfilling sex. But once I started having them, I can't imagine going back to NOT having them. 

My husband is pretty concerned with my orgasms - he will go to whatever length it takes to get me there, but occasionally we do have sex without one for me. Maybe once out of every 10 times. I'm perfectly fine with that. But if the script was flipped and I only had one 1 out of every 10 times, I don't think id be fulfilled sexually.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Yes it can still be fulfilling and a great experience without an O.
However this for me depends on sexual frequency and other factors. We have sex daily, the experience is pretty much great every time, he is an exceptional man inside and outside of the bedroom, he is a very giving lover. So if on the odd occasion I don't get to O then it is no big deal because the rest of the experience was fun.

A lousy, selfish lover that did not care about my O's would not last long. If I wasn't finishing on a regular basis then the experience would not be worth it.


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## Audrey1 (May 2, 2016)

I dated a guy that couldn't achieve this with anyone other than thru masterbating. We still had a great time and all but it was a little frustrating for him sometimes.

In my marriage there have been times when the sex is great over and over but when I can't seem to get my big O I start going insane lol
I've now purchased some toys to help when ever I run into that problem.

Yes it's great, but I really need to finish lol


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

GavinM said:


> *As a man I know that I would get pretty frustrated if I was to have regular sex and enjoy all there is to enjoy about the process, the anticipation, the foreplay etc but then not ever be able to finish, to never be able to have an orgasm. Is this the similar for women? *


 I would feel similar....Yes....

I am one of those women who orgasms 99% of the time .... those times he slips before me ...I'd be like (and use to do this)....I'd pound on his chest (lightly) saying "NO NO !! Da** it... I wanted that !!"... and tell him he's going to do that again (so demanding of me!)...oh he didn't mind... he could do that back in the day.... 

But today, him getting older (testosterone waning)... I'd have to wait hours or the next morning.. he always feels so bad if he goes before me... but yeah.. *I WANT MINE !!! *

It surely heightens the experience.. when I hear a woman has a good marriage, loves her man, but isn't interested in sex.. the 1st thing that goes through my mind is... "she must not be orgasming with him"... otherwise it doesn't make much sense to me...

As an "O" is like the "reward" , the thrill, the exhilaration... this intertwined with emotional intimacy, feeling the love, the desire...is there anything more pleasurable in life? .. I can't think of anything...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think sex can indeed be fulfilling without an orgasm, but orgasms also release bonding chemicals. So if you never have one you don't get those chemicals released.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GavinM (Jan 13, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I should have provided more information in my original post. 

My wife is able to orgasm when she masturbates, which seems to occur about once a week. I say ‘seems to’ because she doesn’t volunteer this information but she also doesn’t hide it. She is pretty open-mined about sex generally and if I ask her directly she will tell me if she has masturbated. One thing she is very firm on is that she won’t masturbate in front of me. I tried as hard as possible on this subject and its just a non-starter. 

My wife does describe a difference between orgasms she can have from intercourse and from using a vibrator or oral sex. In the past she told that she likes all orgasms and its good when using her vibrator (or receiving oral sex) but she more considers this more as foreplay and after a while she craves the type of orgasm she gets from intercourse. 

She has been able to have orgasms from sex in some of her relationships in the past. It seems to be a hit or miss thing for her where she can climax almost every time or never. She has changed her story over time to greatly downplay her climaxes through sex. 

Thanks


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

So PIV orgasm is the ultimate & what she craves, and she's had it plenty with other guys, but it never happens with you? And she won't masturbate in front of you either?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

My wife considers oral on her the main event, or events. No sense stopping at just one orgasm!
Starting off with intercourse, I usually can't last long enough for her to orgasm.
So if we start by me doing oral on her, to O, then switch to intercourse, she will O again. 

The oral gets her primed!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would feel similar....Yes....
> 
> I am one of those women who orgasms 99% of the time .... those times he slips before me ...I'd be like (and use to do this)....I'd pound on his chest (lightly) saying "NO NO !! Da** it... I wanted that !!"... and tell him he's going to do that again (so demanding of me!)...oh he didn't mind... he could do that back in the day....
> 
> ...


Which begs the question: Those that say their wives have orgasms yet don't want to have sex often or at all, are they "really" having orgasms ??


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

I am sure my wife never had orgasms with me, and just faked it in the hope I wouldn't notice. Yet another reason to refrain from having sex with her.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

UMP said:


> *Which begs the question: Those that say their wives have orgasms yet don't want to have sex often or at all, are they "really" having orgasms ??*


I did a couple posts exploring this question in this thread ..I will copy & paste some of it here...

This article says : "Female sexual dysfunction , which encompasses the inability to orgasm, is very common—as high as 43 percent, according to some surveys—and has been a topic of much debate and medical investigation lately," (now that sounds AWFULLY HIGH!) 

Surprising Facts about Women's Orgams

This article says "About 75 percent of all women never reach orgasm from intercourse alone -- that is without the extra help of sex toys, hands or tongue. *And 10 to 15 percent never climax under any circumstances.*" ....

Sex Study Says Female Orgasm Eludes Majority of Women -


This speaks more if the man is a SELFISH lover.. reading the words of women themselves... a page in this book  HERE - speaking of their frustration often leading to RESENTMENT ..... 



> "Generally I find men unable to accept arousal alone, they demand fulfillment , their own, of course- but rarely mine"
> 
> "It's a a big let down & makes me very quiet & sad when I don't orgasm and he is already lying there quiet & happy , not interested anymore."
> 
> ...



So what are the REAL stats for FAKING? 

Sorry, guys: 80 percent of women fake it - Health - Sexploration | NBC News This sounds WAY TOO HIGH !

This article says:"believe it or not, according to the Sex Files, over 70% of women (and hey, 25% of men) admit to faking the feeling. 

Faking it - AskMen

this article  says "A stunning *26 %* of women said that they fake it “*every time*.” Still, a third of women said they “never” feign their climax." 

It all comes down to this though, doesn't it.. taken from: 

Why Do Women Fake Orgasm? Faking may look like a good option but the long term cost of faking is sky high. 



> ....No wonder women end up faking orgasms! It can easily look like the best option. The obvious consequence is that you don’t get to have a real orgasm, but that’s just the beginning. When I was in my twenties I was not exactly faking, but let’s say wildly exaggerating, and was lucky enough to get called on it. The man was very disappointed in my lack of authenticity. That was a significant lesson for me. I realized that I wanted to be with men who were aware enough to see through the pretense, and who valued transparency, so faking didn’t get the results that I wanted.
> 
> The consequences may be even worse if the guy doesn’t catch on. As the woman continues to do what’s expected, her resentment builds. She loses respect for the man. There’s no real intimacy. It ends up killing her authentic sexual appetite. Not only does she miss the opportunity to discover what kind of stimulation would really be satisfying, but she develops a storehouse of anger and nothing kills sexual connection faster than anger.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Sounds like a horrible nightmare. 
I don't know what it feels like to never have had an orgasm. So I can't speak for those people. 

Speaking from me personally... Sex is very important to me. I have been masterbating and having orgasms since I hit puberty. I would be very unhappy if I couldn't orgasm and sex would not be fulfilling and I would for sure get frustrated.
When I make the decision to have sex, it will always be for the end point of me having an orgasm. Yes it's good for my relationship and connects us blah blah blah. 
Not to get too personal but having an orgasm is really important to me. It helps me de stress, un wind, it helps me sleep, and it connects me to my husband.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

IMHO, sex without orgasm sucks, and I want nothing to do with it. Indeed, if it were even a semi regular thing, I would just be resentful and angry all of the time.


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## Fitnessfan (Nov 18, 2014)

I think it can be fufilling to have sex without orgasm. Orgasm is obviously wonderful but just PIV alone for me is amazing with my husband. If she is having trouble O'ing, than I would suggest incorporating toys into your lovemaking together. I'm guessing she can O with a vibrator and you guys can do that together and still have that extra pleasure and bonding. Lots of people do this.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

katiecrna said:


> Sounds like a horrible nightmare.
> I don't know what it feels like to never have had an orgasm. So I can't speak for those people.


 I have a friend who shared with me she's never had one.. she's almost 50 now... When I hit my prime, I couldn't help but talk about this heightened experience to some of my girlfriends.. I can attest she thinks I am sex crazed.. and told me this.. trying to get her point across that she has no idea what it's like to feel that....so she doesn't get it.. 

She was single for many years after the divorce... she's also said every man she's been with has been a selfish lover too (all about them) which didn't help her view of sex..


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

Sure.....for those spontaneous quickie things that happen. 
Like the old stand alone oralizing when you, or her, walk into the house with your arms full carrying groceries. Target of opportunity. Would anyone say no?
Things like that. 

It's a giving thing! 
And a lot of fun here & there! 
Sometimes turns into come one, come all, but sometimes not!

:laugh:


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

As someone who has had "blue balls" before my answer is 100% no


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

UMP said:


> Which begs the question: Those that say their wives have orgasms yet don't want to have sex often or at all, are they "really" having orgasms ??


My wife is LD but yes she has at least one O every time we have sex. Only rarely does she not O. She enjoys it but just has no sex drive.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

no


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I did a couple posts exploring this question in this thread ..I will copy & paste some of it here...
> 
> This article says : "Female sexual dysfunction , which encompasses the inability to orgasm, is very common—as high as 43 percent, according to some surveys—and has been a topic of much debate and medical investigation lately," (now that sounds AWFULLY HIGH!)
> 
> ...


I was convinced that my wife had real orgasms until I saw a really REAL one. Maybe there are weak orgasms and stronger ones. At the very least, all her previous orgasms (with me) seemed weak, at best. Now, they seem much, much stronger or "real" depending on your point of view. 

I am 54 years old and to be honest I thought I knew what I was doing, in fact I thought I was pretty good. Wrong!
In my defense, in 25 years of marriage my wife would tell you she has NEVER faked an orgasm. However, now I know better.

I do believe that female orgasms are much more complicated that a mans. 

I view the male orgasm like a dog. Always there and always happy, 99% of the time.

I view the female orgasm like a cat. What will I get today? The claws or the purr? More calculated patient persistence is needed to get the "purr" on a regular basis.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Yes, there are what I like to think of as minor league orgasms, and then there are the major leagues.

Doing self service, it's usually minor leagues. But if I have a partner who knows what he's doing (like I have right now), I can get to the majors. And when you get that multiple times, we'll, that's just amazing.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> Doing self service, it's usually minor leagues.


That used to be true for me, but now, well, I've figured out how to make it major!!

@UMP, I have never faked, but there is a.definite difference between major and minor leagues. And cold hard truth, at least IMHO: lots of guys *think* they know what they are doing but, actually, well, meh.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

No, sex isn't fulfilling to me without an orgasm. I can enjoy sex for the physical and emotional connection even if I don't reach orgasm (very rare), but that's not truly fulfilling.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> No, sex isn't fulfilling to me without an orgasm. I can enjoy sex for the physical and emotional connection even if I don't reach orgasm (very rare), but that's not truly fulfilling.


Ok just bc I find this interesting.....

I have little to no need for emotional connection to have sex so having sex and a big O holds no emotional pay off. I am happy to have sex for the sake of it, bc I enjoy it.

But if I have sex and don't O then I find my enjoyment in the emotional connection I'm getting but only with a man I love.

Mind you the scales are in my favour. The times with no O would be hard to count on one hand. The times I get to have multiples and/or he looks after me NSA I would need many hands to count on.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> I don't have an emotional connection without an orgasm. It's more like running on the treadmill. Enjoyable, but not a thing to do all in of itself.
> 
> Orgasm is the goal that makes it bonding! I do't really want sex without an orgasm.


No I don't really want it either without an O.

Can I ask, for those women that must have an O, do you ever give him a NSA BJ or HJ? I can do this and obviously no O but boy oh boy it gives me a thrill.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Wolf1974 said:


> As someone who has had "blue balls" before my answer is 100% no


I've heard of the term "blue balls" before, must be LEO thing! 

Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Honestly I never had an O with the HB present, but I still find everything fulfilling with him. 

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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I wouldn't be fulfilled without a orgasm, if I had sex regularly without a orgasm I think I would end up dreading it. Would just be frustrating.

Schumer say's it best imo


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> My husband can be fairly selfish sexually. I used to fight about it, but I figured "well, if he can do it, I can too!" which actually lead to a better sex life all around. So, yes NSA until I get mine...does that make sense?
> 
> It's thrilling, but up to a point! Thinking about it, most of the time the score is even but when he is up more than around three, I start to lose interest and start cashing in my checks.


That makes sense FF

Mr H is a very giving man in all respects. I love him for that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I've read articles about 'tantric' sex, think that's what it's called...and it's 'sex without orgasm.' Supposedly, we expend a lot of necessary energy through sex, and some cultures believe that sexual energy 'lost' like this, will cause us to lose years off of our lives. But, then I've read that orgasm is very healthy for us. So, maybe it boils down to everything in moderation.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Holland said:


> Ok just bc I find this interesting.....
> 
> I have little to no need for emotional connection to have sex so having sex and a big O holds no emotional pay off. I am happy to have sex for the sake of it, bc I enjoy it.
> 
> ...


I also don't require emotional connection to have sex. In my single days, I preferred NSA sex or FWB situations. With DH, because there is such powerful love there, I can feel close to him and connected to him even if I don't orgasm. It wasn't so with previous sexual partners. When single, my policy was if I didn't orgasm, I didn't have sex with that man again.

Now, DH and I have been together for 16 years. In all those years not reaching orgasm has been rare, but it's happened here and there.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I am one of those women who orgasms 99% of the time....


Women like you are fantastic! Seriously. I had an ex girlfriend who came fairly easily and it made sex amazing. She couldn't get enough and neither could I.

My girlfriend after her is what I guess you would call sexually disfunctional. All the moves I used on the gf before to give her orgasms with ease just didn't work. At all.....

She admitted she had never orgasmed until her mid twenties and only with a vibrator. Made me kinda sad but if she can't even make herself orgasm what hope did I have in bed?

She was all kinds of self conscious in bed. Thought her pvssy was too wet?!? Half of me thought it was all in her head, like her brain was keeping her from orgasming, but who knows....


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## Marische (Apr 30, 2016)

Holdingontoit said:


> I am sure my wife never had orgasms with me, and just faked it in the hope I wouldn't notice. Yet another reason to refrain from having sex with her.


WOW :surprise:


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> No I don't really want it either without an O.
> 
> Can I ask, for those women that must have an O, do you ever give him a NSA BJ or HJ? I can do this and obviously no O but boy oh boy it gives me a thrill.


I used to, but since it was never ever reciprocated, I gave it up.

But no, I never got any thrill from it, nothing at all in it for me, and all for him.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> I don't have an emotional connection without an orgasm. It's more like running on the treadmill. Enjoyable, but not a thing to do all in of itself.
> 
> Orgasm is the goal that makes it bonding! I do't really want sex without an orgasm.


I am the same way, except I don't like treadmills.

Sex without orgasm isn't bonding. Worse, it can be bond-eroding.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women like you are fantastic! Seriously. I had an ex girlfriend who came fairly easily and it made sex amazing. She couldn't get enough and neither could I.
> 
> My girlfriend after her is what I guess you would call sexually disfunctional. All the moves I used on the gf before to give her orgasms with ease just didn't work. At all.....
> 
> ...


You never know what some previous partner said to her that may have fvcked up her thinking.

My XH said some pretty awful things to me (regarding sex) that I internalized, and it took a lot of work on my part to un-learn that BS.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

BetrayedDad said:


> Women like you are fantastic! Seriously. I had an ex girlfriend who came fairly easily and it made sex amazing. She couldn't get enough and neither could I.
> 
> My girlfriend after her is what I guess you would call sexually disfunctional. All the moves I used on the gf before to give her orgasms with ease just didn't work. At all.....
> 
> She admitted she had never orgasmed until her mid twenties and only with a vibrator. Made me kinda sad but if she can't even make herself orgasm what hope did I have in bed?


 Vibrators do nothing for me.. got my 1st one at age 42 as I was wearing husband out... didn't care for it at all... didn't even get off on it ....The Dildo worked though (bought that at the same time, curious to see which was better)... but still.... plastic is not where it's at !...no emotional connection, skin on skin there... just NOT the same... my husband really didn't want me using those.. he told me to put them away , to come to him every time.. I cried.. he's a wonderful man... and thank God for that little blue pill [email protected]# 

It's not fulfilling for me without the whole skin on skin, heart to heart connection, I want an after glow too!! 

I couldn't be with a low drive / non-delirious partner.. it would take an awful toll on me & my moods.. Some things are just very important to us... 

My husband is one of those men who wouldn't be satisfied , he'd not find it fulfilling if I COULDN'T get there.. some women think this is all "EGO" - though I have a different perspective on that.. as I feel he just Loves pleasuring a woman.. that brings him the greatest satisfaction.. 

Wouldn't we all want a partner like this.. 

For those who struggle to orgasm ...I'd say this is VERY VERY needed for a satisfying sex life.. for the man.. My husband never has trouble going himself (most men don't)...but he'd take my orgasm over his own.. I can't say I'd want a man who didn't care.. I LOVE that he cares so much... He's not an egotistical type like AT ALL... very unselfish really.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Marische said:


> WOW :surprise:


Wow what? Wow she never came? Wow she did not enjoy sex if she never came? Wow that she wasn't particularly enthusiastic about sex if she never came? Wow that if she was never enthusiastic that I eventually lost enthusiasm as well? Or all of the above? 

To me, all of it seems pretty standard, normal and expected. Once we got to the point that she never came and she stopped pretending, and I asked her if there was anything I could do to get her there, and she said "no, there isn't, don't even bother trying" then I think the rest of the process is pretty much doomed to occur.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

always_alone said:


> That used to be true for me, but now, well, I've figured out how to make it major!!
> 
> @UMP, I have never faked, but there is a.definite difference between major and minor leagues. And cold hard truth, at least IMHO: lots of guys *think* they know what they are doing but, actually, well, meh.


Exactly!
Problem is a guy cannot know the difference unless he sees the "REAL" thing. If you had asked me 4 years ago if my wife faked I would have bet you the farm that she had NEVER faked.
I was simply wrong and uninformed.

Just a couple months ago I watched a movie where they talked about not being so gentle with the clitoris. I always thought I had to treat it with kid gloves. Wrong. Once my wife gets started I can grind that thing like a wack a mole and she loves it.

To make a long story short, I think sex is a life long learned process and I hope I'll never stop learning.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

Mrs. Lurksters orgasms are variable. 

One from a quickie, not such a big deal. 

One after much foreplay, and in the right setting, and me doing her favorite thing, is intense. Better, more powerful, and last longer. 

Pretty normal I would think. Lot of things can make them different. Same for me too.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> Yikes!!! Not true of every woman though. Some of us are very, very sensitive.
> 
> I'm betting that for women like me who have always O'd "early and often" with very little stimulation, you really do have to treat it as though with kid gloves.
> 
> *BUT*: for women who seem to have a difficult time getting there, or who don't get there at all, probably they are much less sensitive so need more direct, less gentle stimulation.


This is something that varies as well. My wife, likes me to be gentle at first, but when she gets close to O'ing, she'll grab my head and pull me into her, hard & tight too, and, she really gets to humping. Anything but gentle! 
:wink2:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> Yikes!!! Not true of every woman though. Some of us are very, very sensitive.
> 
> I'm betting that for women like me who have always O'd "early and often" with very little stimulation, you really do have to treat it as though with kid gloves.
> 
> *BUT*: for women who seem to have a difficult time getting there, or who don't get there at all, probably they are much less sensitive so need more direct, less gentle stimulation.


My wife seems to be very sensitive early and then progressively less sensitive. It always blows my mind how hard I can push on that thing when she gets very aroused.
When it feels like a hard little rock, that's when she likes me to go to town on it.
I guess everyone is different.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

UMP said:


> My wife seems to be very sensitive early and then progressively less sensitive. It always blows my mind how hard I can push on that thing when she gets very aroused.
> When it feels like a hard little rock, that's when she likes me to go to town on it.
> I guess everyone is different.


This sounds familiar!

:laugh:


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

OliviaG said:


> Yes, it varies with arousal but it also varies woman to woman. And it varies with age, too. I need a lot more stimulation this past year than I used to in all the years prior. Prior to this, the amount of stimulation I need now would have been unbelievably painful. But I barely had to be touched before - very light stimulation for a short period of time used to bring on an intense O, with more to follow.
> 
> You just have to read the woman you're with, but start out gentle, just in case!


One thing for sure about sex: One size does not fit all, if you know what I mean. :laugh:

When we were first married, we both sort of 'took notes', like ahhh, she likes that. (note to self....have to try that one again) 
No doubt. Things change when you get older too.

Got to keep taking notes!
:smile2:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OliviaG said:


> Yikes!!! Not true of every woman though. Some of us are very, very sensitive.
> 
> I'm betting that for women like me who have always O'd "early and often" with very little stimulation, you really do have to treat it as though with kid gloves.
> 
> *BUT*: for women who seem to have a difficult time getting there, or who don't get there at all, probably they are much less sensitive so need more direct, less gentle stimulation.


Here is my variation on this.... If we hadn't done it in days .. EVERYTHING feels "heightened".. all the sensations, LUST.... we want it to last.. that euphoria, anything to prolong it...the slow & gentle love making is a slice of heaven...if he went pounding, we'd both go far too quickly.. then it'd be all over...Bummer !....so slow is good.. 

If we're having sex every day, however...I may need more of a pounding to get there...


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

I think the idea that if a woman doesn't have an orgasm, the man is a selfish (or unskilled) lover is often mistaken.

I am NOT denying that a lot of men may be selfish and/or unskilled lovers, I'm just saying that a lack of a female orgasm isn't necessarily proof of this.

In each of my LTR's, the exact techniques I've used to give my partner an orgasm have differed significantly. To the degree that there is such a thing as "skill", it mostly involves caring enough to figure out what works. And, of course, you've got to get accurate feedback. You can't blame the guy if the woman is claiming everything is wonderful. 

I'm also not entirely certain that this current male obsession with whether or not the woman O's is healthy. It seems like it's for their own ego more than it's about their partner's pleasure.

I've known a few women (not partners), who find that the pressure placed on them to have an orgasm EVERY time causes the female equivalent of performance anxiety.

On the few occasions my wife says she's not getting there, I believe her and give it up. I act like everything's fine (although I'm actually pretty disappointed).


----------



## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> ...if he went pounding, we'd both go far too quickly.. then it'd be all over...Bummer !....so slow is good..


Something we figured out years ago, is why stop at one? 
No doubt some people recharge quicker than others, but if we did the one and done routine, it often would have been quite disappointing, especially for Mrs. Lurkster. 

Much older now, but we seldom stop at one a piece!

:grin2:


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Lurkster said:


> Something we figured out years ago, is why stop at one?
> No doubt some people recharge quicker than others, but if we did the one and done routine, it often would have been quite disappointing, especially for Mrs. Lurkster.
> 
> Much older now, but we seldom stop at one a piece!
> ...


That's another variation we're not all the same... I'm a "One & Done"... I don't understand the multiple orgasms women talk about.. it's happened only ONCE and the 2nd wasn't as intense as the 1st.. it was like a minute later.. and at the height of my Sexual surge years.....

I also can't seem to get off through Oral.. only happened twice.. He'd love to see this happen more often.. just doesn't compare to PIV to me.... ONE BIG "O" ...heavy breathing with the euphoria... same for him.. and it's OVER... 

He'd need to recharge.. so do I.


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## Lurkster (Feb 8, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> That's another variation we're not all the same... I'm a "One & Done"... I don't understand the multiple orgasms women talk about.. it's happened only ONCE and the 2nd wasn't as intense as the 1st.. it was like a minute later.. and at the height of my Sexual surge years.....
> 
> I also can't seem to get off through Oral.. only happened twice.. He'd love to see this happen more often.. just doesn't compare to PIV to me.... ONE BIG "O" ...heavy breathing with the euphoria... same for him.. and it's OVER...
> 
> He'd need to recharge.. so do I.


Yup! One size does not fit all. 

Mrs. Lurkster is the opposite. She certainly likes PIV, but preference, and best O's, are from Oral. If she had to pick one, Oral it would be!

If we switch back & forth from PIV to oral, she, actually we, can O several times. She will O in a few minutes sometimes, but more like at least 10. Me....not a chance. Second one for me is in about 30 minutes, and longer for anymore. 
Not hard to find something to do for her while I reload!!

:laugh:


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I
> I'm also not entirely certain that this current male obsession with whether or not the woman O's is healthy. It seems like it's for their own ego more than it's about their partner's pleasure.
> 
> I've known a few women (not partners), who find that the pressure placed on them to have an orgasm EVERY time causes the female equivalent of performance anxiety.


Being someone who would never ever get on board with the"it's okay if she doesn't O" claim, I find the opposite to be true. That is, men seem to be too willing to accept that sex is about them, and that he is having a good time is enough. (See for example, the meme Tiggy posted above.)


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Being someone who would never ever get on board with the"it's okay if she doesn't O" claim, I find the opposite to be true. That is, men seem to be too willing to accept that sex is about them, and that he is having a good time is enough. (See for example, the meme Tiggy posted above.)


I'm not entirely surprised that you have a negative view of most men, but I'm not sure what exactly you're disagreeing with.

If my wife says she's not going to be able to get there, what do you think I should do about that? Work on my technique because I must be doing something wrong? Force her to keep going until *I* succeed?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I'm not entirely surprised that you have a negative view of most men, but I'm not sure what exactly you're disagreeing with.
> 
> If my wife says she's not going to be able to get there, what do you think I should do about that? Work on my technique because I must be doing something wrong? Force her to keep going until *I* succeed?


I'm not disagreeing at all. Just sharing my experience.

If your wife tells you she doesn't care to O, you should probably listen to her. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that concept because my experience is so completely different. I can't even fathom saying I don't care to O, and have yet to meet a guy who takes pride in his attentiveness to my needs.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> I'm not disagreeing at all. Just sharing my experience.
> 
> If your wife tells you she doesn't care to O, you should probably listen to her. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that concept because my experience is so completely different. I can't even fathom saying I don't care to O, and have yet to meet a guy who takes pride in his attentiveness to my needs.


It isn't that she doesn't "care to", it's that she just doesn't think she's going to be able to get there that particular time and that focusing all of her efforts on achieving one (which might not be possible anyhow) would detract from what would otherwise be a pleasurable experience.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I am fine engaging in sex where I only give (sometimes). I love watching her go off.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Which begs the question: Those that say their wives have orgasms yet don't want to have sex often or at all, are they "really" having orgasms ??


A question I have experience with myself which leads me to believe the answer is no!

I believe that if a woman doesn't orgasm regularly during sex, as in 8 out of 10 times she's experiencing an orgasm, she will eventually lose interest in having sex because it is not fulfilling to her. I have seen MANY threads in which a husband swears his wife is having orgasms every time they have sex but she never wants sex and I cannot believe this is true. 

Last night my husband woke me up to have sex. I orgasmed several times. Afterward, he fell sound asleep and I was awake for another few hours. If I hadn't been able to orgasm, hearing him sound asleep while I was now wide awake would have left me feeling a bit resentful. 

There are, of course, exceptions but I suspect they are rare.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> A question I have experience with myself which leads me to believe the answer is no!
> 
> I believe that if a woman doesn't orgasm regularly during sex, as in 8 out of 10 times she's experiencing an orgasm, she will eventually lose interest in having sex because it is not fulfilling to her. I have seen MANY threads in which a husband swears his wife is having orgasms every time they have sex but she never wants sex and I cannot believe this is true.
> 
> ...


Which begs the question: How can I get my wife to have multiples more often? The first time in 25 years I can remember her having a multiple was about a month ago. 

*Is there a technique or method that can produce multiples on a more regular basis?* 

BTW: My wife is one of those women who cannot have on orgasm without manual stimulation 90% of the time. I have long arms and fingers so it's not a problem. However, her multiple was PIV with no manual stimulation.

4 years ago I would have bet the farm that my wife had never faked. I was dead wrong. I started researching the female orgasm and started looking for signs. Afterwards I called her on one and simply said "please don't ever fake an orgasm with me. If you can't have one, that's fine but do not fake."

She denied faking even after I called her out, but since then I believe they have been real. It's almost as if she could relax and know that if she was not able I was not going to lose my temper or get butt hurt. Which, in turn, allowed her to have even better orgasms.

I ALWAYS put the vibrator out on the night stand just in case. If I feel she is tired or not as excited for whatever reason, I call 911 and grab that vibrator. So far it's batting a thousand.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> I have seen MANY threads in which a husband swears his wife is having orgasms every time they have sex but she never wants sex and I cannot believe this is true.


Also, in these threads, it is always *her* that is seen to be defective in some way. She is too "selfish", ignoring her "wifely duties". Or too "prudish", "sexually disfunctional" and so on. And while I do believe this may be true on occasion, I often suspect that crappy sex is at the core. Yet almost never do we see it suggested that *he* might suck in bed. Invariably if anything he is said to be "too nice" and needs to stop attending to her needs. To which I say, WTF. :scratchhead:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@UMP, Every woman is going to be different, and I think that it's something that develops over time. So what works for me isn't necessarily going to work for your wife.

BTW, I usually don't orgasm from PIV, either... but if I've already had multiple via other methods of stimulation, the chance of me having one via PIV increases *dramatically*.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> A question I have experience with myself which leads me to believe the answer is no!
> 
> I believe that if a woman doesn't orgasm regularly during sex, as in 8 out of 10 times she's experiencing an orgasm, she will eventually lose interest in having sex because it is not fulfilling to her. I have seen MANY threads in which a husband swears his wife is having orgasms every time they have sex but she never wants sex and I cannot believe this is true.
> 
> ...


So that was OK with you? 

This happens to my wife as well on the rare occasion we have sex at night, she is a crappy sleeper to begin with so laying there wide awake for 2 - 4 hours after is a real problem. Basically eliminates Sunday night thru Thursday night ever. 

And of course she is wiped out on Friday from the work week. Do I understand? Sure, I'm not an insensitive clod . Does it piss me off, you bet


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

UMP said:


> Which begs the question: How can I get my wife to have multiples more often? The first time in 25 years I can remember her having a multiple was about a month ago.
> 
> *Is there a technique or method that can produce multiples on a more regular basis?*
> .



No. There is no way to get your wife to have multiples unless this is something she seeks and then it's really fun to find the way together.





always_alone said:


> Also, in these threads, it is always *her* that is seen to be defective in some way. She is too "selfish", ignoring her "wifely duties". Or too "prudish", "sexually disfunctional" and so on. And while I do believe this may be true on occasion, I often suspect that crappy sex is at the core. Yet almost never do we see it suggested that *he* might suck in bed. Invariably if anything he is said to be "too nice" and needs to stop attending to her needs. To which I say, WTF. :scratchhead:



Yeah I'm undecided on that having come from a place of BEING defective and not being open and communicative about sex. I've seen many threads in which the wife is like I was -refusing to deal with the sexual issues that originated in her. I don't blame the men for that, though I think there are some things they could to to encourage their wives to let go of the repression/inhibition. I know first hand it is not easy to do.




anonmd said:


> So that was OK with you?
> 
> This happens to my wife as well on the rare occasion we have sex at night, she is a crappy sleeper to begin with so laying there wide awake for 2 - 4 hours after is a real problem. Basically eliminates Sunday night thru Thursday night ever.
> 
> And of course she is wiped out on Friday from the work week. Do I understand? Sure, I'm not an insensitive clod . Does it piss me off, you bet


No it doesn't bother me at all. 

You woke me up to have chocolate cake??? You beast! Pass me a napkin....>


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> It isn't that she doesn't "care to", it's that she just doesn't think she's going to be able to get there that particular time and that focusing all of her efforts on achieving one (which might not be possible anyhow) would detract from what would otherwise be a pleasurable experience.


My wife and I have talked about this before, because she has, on the rare occasion, turned down the O because for what ever reason, she felt as if she wouldn't be able to get there, but still wanted the enjoyment of the experience.

She said that with me as a partner, she never feels that she has to get what she can when she can, because who knows when the next time will be. She feels as if she can comfortably do this without worrying because my technique and attentiveness, she knows an O is always there for her whenever she wants one.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> I have seen MANY threads in which a husband swears his wife is having orgasms every time they have sex but she never wants sex and I cannot believe this is true.


I'd like to get to the bottom of this.

It definitely seems to be "a thing" where the wife will have sex, claim to have really enjoyed herself and yet not want to have sex often. These women could be lying about saying they enjoyed it, but why would they? Saying they enjoyed it when they didn't would only lead to more attempts by their husbands to get them to do more of what they don't like. I can see this happening, but not all the time. 

I suspect that not believing this might be projection from people who think orgasms are really important.

I know that when my wife goes to the gym with me she claims she feels great and is happy she did it. But, the next time I want her to go, I need a crowbar to get her started.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> So I believe the "happy," part, but only in the way that I'm happy running on a treadmill so I can eat ice cream later. Not really "happy," but it's something to do because it's supposedly good for me somehow.


Yes, this. IMHO. I am "happy" that my partner is happy. I am "happy" that he won't leave me for someone younger and hotter, at least not yet. 

I am absolutely opposed to faking it, and think women are shooting themselves in the foot by doing it. But lately, I kind of get it. When you're in the middle of some crappy sex that you wish would just end, it is absolutely so tempting just to pretend everything is super groovy. Makes him happy, and you don't have to deal with difficult conversations, or patch together an unhappy ego. In some ways it seems so much simpler.

But then, of course, it doesn't actually solve anything, and I'm not really the type for martyr.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> I'm not disagreeing at all. Just sharing my experience.
> 
> If your wife tells you she doesn't care to O, you should probably listen to her. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around that concept because my experience is so completely different. I can't even fathom saying I don't care to O, and *have yet to meet a guy who takes pride in his attentiveness to my needs*.


If you have chosen to stay with a poor lover then that is on you. Have you or he tried to improve your sex life?

There are certainly men out there that are not good in bed but why would women give them more than a couple of chances? Even my LD ex or various FWB were extremely attentive to me, it doesn't register that someone would stay with a crappy lover.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> If you have chosen to stay with a poor lover then that is on you. Have you or he tried to improve your sex life?
> 
> There are certainly men out there that are not good in bed but why would women give them more than a couple of chances? Even my LD ex or various FWB were extremely attentive to me, it doesn't register that someone would stay with a crappy lover.


Oh well, some of us can't do any better I guess.

Unfortunately, though, I am not alone. Stats show that virtually all men expect to orgasm every time, while some 30% of women almost never orgasm. And a very astonishingly sad proportion do not expect sex to be satisfying for them.

I have tried to tell my SO what I want, but it seems it is on me to look out for my needs. He, on the other hand, thinks our sex life is just grand, and doesn't understand why I want to improve it.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> *Oh well, some of us can't do any better I guess.
> *
> Unfortunately, though, I am not alone. Stats show that virtually all men expect to orgasm every time, while some 30% of women almost never orgasm. And a very astonishingly sad proportion do not expect sex to be satisfying for them.
> 
> I have tried to tell my SO what I want, but it seems it is on me to look out for my needs. He, on the other hand, thinks our sex life is just grand, and doesn't understand why I want to improve it.


That's your choice, it is not a given, it is a choice you have made for yourself.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> That's your choice, it is not a given, it is a choice you have made for yourself.


I appreciate what you're trying to say here Holland, but you really have no idea what the backstory is.

And while I agree in principle, don't you find it the slightest bit telling just how many women have made this same "choice"? While somehow, almost no men ever do?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> I appreciate what you're trying to say here Holland, but you really have no idea what the backstory is.
> 
> And while I agree in principle, don't you find it the slightest bit telling just how many women have made this same "choice"? While somehow, almost no men ever do?


No I don't know your backstory but it is evident you are an intelligent woman. Now that's the baffling part, why does an articulate, intelligent woman put up with a man that does not treat her well?


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> No I don't know your backstory but it is evident you are an intelligent woman. Now that's the baffling part, why does an articulate, intelligent woman put up with a man that does not treat her well?


Let me just try and clarify what I'm saying.

First off, as I said earlier in this thread, orgasms are very important to me, and without them I would feel disconnected, resentful, and angry. And without them, I would most certainly leave.

That said, I've met more than one guy who fancied himself some kind of studly lover when he was anything but. And encountered this perception that really women do not *need* to be pleased, that they don't care as much about orgasm as men, that they are less sexual, and indeed only have sex because they want love. And, to top it off, if she doesn't orgasm, well, it's always because *she* is defective. It is never him. He wanted sex and for some reason that alone supposedly makes him a good lover.

That these views are quite common, and not just my idiosyncratic experience, is borne out by the stats.

When I first got with my SO, we had fantastic sex. But sadly things have waned, and all my efforts to jumpstart have just made him lazier and lazier. As I said, he is perfectly happy with how things are. And he sees himself as very attentive to my needs, and doesn't even actually get what I'm complaining about.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Let me just try and clarify what I'm saying.
> 
> First off, as I said earlier in this thread, orgasms are very important to me, and without them I would feel disconnected, resentful, and angry. And without them, I would most certainly leave.
> 
> ...


Thankfully my only experience with this sort of man is the words on the screen at TAM. I get what you are saying, this sort of man exists. The question is why would a woman stay?


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

No


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

and further....I would argue that an orgasm without sex is sometimes as good as it gets


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

GavinM said:


> *One thing she is very firm on is that she won’t masturbate in front of me. I tried as hard as possible on this subject and its just a non-starter. *


While you probably don't want to push this topic, you should try to find out if your wife is one of those people that has an awkward relationship with her vagina. 

I had one college girlfriend that was a bit freaked out by her vagina, and I remember her saying one day, "I don't bother my vagina, and my vagina does not bother me. That is the way it has always been, and I don't care to even look down there or know anything else about it."

So for you wife to masturbate in front of you would be like exposing this awkward relationship she has about herself that hides in the shadows. So you want to work on her self confidence to at least be able to talk about "why" she feels this way.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> Stats show that virtually all men expect to orgasm every time, while some 30% of women almost never orgasm. And a very astonishingly sad proportion do not expect sex to be satisfying for them.


Men having an orgasm every time and women not is something you're just going to have to blame on nature. Giving a man an orgasm is pretty straight forward, women not so much. That's certainly not by choice on the part of men.



always_alone said:


> I have tried to tell my SO what I want, but it seems it is on me to look out for my needs. He, on the other hand, thinks our sex life is just grand, and doesn't understand why I want to improve it.


This is the exact same problem many men have trying to get their LD wife to understand that there's a problem. You need to decide to live with it or if it's important enough to destabilize the relationship.



always_alone said:


> And while I agree in principle, don't you find it the slightest bit telling just how many women have made this same "choice"? While somehow, almost no men ever do?


Plenty of men have "made the choice" to just live with an unsatisfying sex life.



always_alone said:


> That said, I've met more than one guy who fancied himself some kind of studly lover when he was anything but. And encountered this perception that really women do not *need* to be pleased, that they don't care as much about orgasm as men, that they are less sexual, and indeed only have sex because they want love. And, to top it off, if she doesn't orgasm, well, it's always because *she* is defective. It is never him. He wanted sex and for some reason that alone supposedly makes him a good lover.


The power to change this is in the hands of women. If women don't have sex with such men, they'll either have a series of ONS or they'll change. If they can be sexually selfish takers and get away with it, then they will. I don't think the problem is that they're "bad at sex", the problem is that they're selfish and just don't care much about the happiness of others.



always_alone said:


> When I first got with my SO, we had fantastic sex. But sadly things have waned, and all my efforts to jumpstart have just made him lazier and lazier. As I said, he is perfectly happy with how things are. And he sees himself as very attentive to my needs, and doesn't even actually get what I'm complaining about.


This sounds exactly like many men here complaining about how he and his wife used to have great sex, they no longer do and she doesn't understand why he's unhappy.

I'd think this would lead you find common ground with many men on this site. Instead, it seems like you're the female equivalent of those men that just bash women in general.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> Men having an orgasm every time and women not is something you're just going to have to blame on nature. Giving a man an orgasm is pretty straight forward, women not so much. That's certainly not by choice on the part of men.


Actually, giving a woman an orgasm can be pretty straight forward, too. 

One reason why men have orgasms through sex is because they're producing/receiving the _kind_ of stimulation they need in order to have an orgasm. Just imagine if a woman sat on top of you and insisted that you not move. Think you'd have an orgasm any time soon? 

For the majority of men, the answer would be 'no'. Or, if they DID orgasm, it might take them 45 minutes to do so. 

Many of us already know that a woman who can't orgasm through intercourse CAN, in fact, orgasm through oral sex. Why do you suppose that is? 

She is receiving the kind of stimulation (direct, CONSTANT and WET) that she _needs_ to orgasm. 

Seems pretty 'straight forward' to ME!


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Vega said:


> Actually, giving a woman an orgasm can be pretty straight forward, too.
> 
> One reason why men have orgasms through sex is because they're producing/receiving the _kind_ of stimulation they need in order to have an orgasm. Just imagine if a woman sat on top of you and insisted that you not move. Think you'd have an orgasm any time soon?
> 
> ...


But the kind of stimulation needed seems to vary far more between women then between men.

The things I've done to give my partners orgasms have been significantly difference for each of them.

What they've done to give me orgasms has probably worked on any other man as well.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Buddy400 said:


> Buddy400 said:
> 
> 
> > But the kind of stimulation needed seems to vary far more between women then between men.
> ...


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
While I think an "O" is important, knowing your partner cares and is trying to please you is also very important. 

People seem to very a LOT in how giving / selfish they are in bed. There are some who really will do their very best to please their partners (whether or not they succeed), and some who don't seem to care. I can imagine that someone unlucky to only have had selfish lovers might not realize that the others exist.

For myself I actually find pleasing my partner to be more important than getting an O myself (though that is great too of course). Just getting off is something that I , like most people, can do for themselves. Driving a partner wild in bed is something that can't be done by yourself.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> People seem to very a LOT in how giving / selfish they are in bed. There are some who really will do their very best to please their partners (whether or not they succeed), and some who don't seem to care. I can imagine that someone unlucky to only have had selfish lovers might not realize that the others exist.


Yes, I agree. But please understand something...

While there ARE a number of men who want to please their partner(s) in bed, I can't help but wonder...

Are they doing it for the benefit of their _partner_ or for _themselves_? 

It seems that the number of women who are willing to forgo their own orgasm in order to please their partner FAR OUTWEIGHS a male partner who is willing for forgo his OWN orgasm in order to please his partner. Obviously, it DOES happen, but it seems to be rare. 

Think about it. How often do we read about men here on TAM who have a partner who isn't into having sex at the moment, but he has NO PROBLEM in wanting/expecting/asking a woman for a BJ or a HJ instead? 

And how often do we read about women who have a partner who isn't into having sex at the moment (such as a LD man), but she has NO PROBLEM in wanting/expecting/asking him for oral or finger manipulation from him?


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I can't speak FOR my wife but I can say for sure that she doesn't fake orgasms and that she doesn't always have one. Sometimes, for whatever reason, she just isn't interested in an orgasm. She'll come right out and say "Let's just focus on you today." I enjoy sex and seeing her orgasm is one of the most erotic things ever. So, yes, I work towards that every time. But sometimes she just wants the closeness and not the orgasm.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Its really difficult to know statistics because posts don't show a random selection of people but rather a selection of people who have decided to post That said, i don't disagree with you that it is more common for women to put in the extra effort than for men to - but I don't know how to tell. Both certainly exist. 

Is pleasing your partner for *your* benefit or *theirs*? I don't know if that is well defined. If I bring home flowers by surprise, I love to seem my wife smile - did I do it to make her happy, or because I enjoy her reaction when she is happy? I don't know if that is even defined.


I think in an ideal sexual relationship, each partner would be willing to provide a quick "O" for the other, even if they were not in the mood themselves. (though I guess in an "idea" situation they would always be in the mood...).

To me the key is that things are fair and balanced. If a woman provides BJs to he man when he feels like it, he should be providing whatever she wants when she feels like it - whether that is oral sex, massages, or something else. 

My own relationship has always had the HD/LD imbalance so I've always been willing to anything sexual my wife wants anytime she wants it. Being LD, she doesn't feel the same way.

It does seem common for LD men not to provide sexual stimulation for their partners. I think it is also common for LD women, but again I don't know the statistics. 








Vega said:


> Yes, I agree. But please understand something...
> 
> While there ARE a number of men who want to please their partner(s) in bed, I can't help but wonder...
> 
> ...


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Now that I know how to O with my H (yes, I had to learn how), I don't think my sex life (or lack there of right now) would be very satisfying without one. Sure, I could not have one from time to time and be completely fine - sometimes, the closeness is really nice. However, if I didn't get to O most of the time...no way. I wouldn't have any motivation to have sex. If I wanted to do my own O all of the time, I would masturbate instead of putting the effort and getting all worked up during sex only to get nothing out of it - and then have to go masturbate anyway.


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## Capster (Jun 10, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> Now that I know how to O with my H (*yes, I had to learn how*), I don't think my sex life (or lack there of right now) would be very satisfying without one. Sure, I could not have one from time to time and be completely fine - sometimes, the closeness is really nice. However, if I didn't get to O most of the time...no way. I wouldn't have any motivation to have sex. If I wanted to do my own O all of the time, I would masturbate instead of putting the effort and getting all worked up during sex only to get nothing out of it - and then have to go masturbate anyway.


What do you mean you had to learn how? My interest is piqued.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Capster said:


> What do you mean you had to learn how? My interest is piqued.


Before my H, I had never had an O with a partner. It's not like I had a whole lot of experience, but my relationships were long term. During those times, I just never could be comfortable enough to let loose enough to have an O. 

With my H, I love the way it feels to have him inside me, but that alone doesn't bring me to O. I thought something was wrong with me. Turns out, I am like most other women. By getting into positions that stimulate my clit AND have him inside me - I have the most powerful O's ever.

So, now I know which ways to move my body in several positions where we can have variety and I get to have an O. Win-win. 

I think a lot of it has to come with being comfortable with your partner, not being afraid to talk about it, and patience to be able to find that right spot. 

For so long, I would never O unless he did oral or manual stimulation.


----------



## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Vega said:


> Many of us already know that a woman who can't orgasm through intercourse CAN, in fact, orgasm through oral sex. Why do you suppose that is?
> 
> She is receiving the kind of stimulation (direct, CONSTANT and WET) that she _needs_ to orgasm.
> 
> Seems pretty 'straight forward' to ME!


Exactly! Orgasms for women are no more complex than for men. It's just that women are *supposed* to orgasm from PIV alone, or other such actions which are what men find stimulating and desirable.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Men having an orgasm every time and women not is something you're just going to have to blame on nature. Giving a man an orgasm is pretty straight forward, women not so much. That's certainly not by choice on the part of men.



I'm sorry, but this is, IMHO, a cop out. Men get orgasms more regularly because (a) they expect them,(b) they ensure that sex gives them the stimulation they need, and (c) don't let anyone give up until they get it.

And yes, women too are responsible for their orgasms and should expect them, ensure that sex gives them the stimulation they need, and not give up until they get what they need. Unfortunately, too many women feel guilty for asking for this attention. Unfortunately, too many believe what you do: that they don't really deserve as much because they are "too complex". Unfortunately, there is a widespread belief that really sex is for men.

And, what I can't help but notice here is that again, you've shifted all blame onto the women. It's *never* the man who is bad in bed. Or failing to meet her needs. It's always *her*. If sex doesn't get him off well enough, it's because she's too selfish, LD, prudish whatever. If it doesn't get her off, it's because she isn't trying hard enough. Never do we say, you know what? Men need to know more about women's sexuality if they want to be successful at pleasing them. They need to get over their hangups about oral. They need to realize that rolling over and going to sleep after they've O'ed is not cool. They need to know that PIV itself is not actually enough for most women.

And as I have said over and over and over on this forum, I do know absolutely what it is like to be with someone who isn't meeting my needs. The difference is that I don't think threats, destabilization, or attempts to control another person are actually going to lead to a better sex life. Quite the opposite, in fact.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Vega said:


> Yes, I agree. But please understand something...
> 
> While there ARE a number of men who want to please their partner(s) in bed, I can't help but wonder...
> 
> ...


From personal experience they are doing it for the right reason, there are some things that can easily be a win/win. 
If I give him a NSA act then it is a win/win, I do it for him but I enjoy it too. Same with him.

Not everything has to be a battle of who gets more out of it.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

I guess it can be. Like if you have ED and can not easily orgasm, it would still feel very good to have physical sex. Operating on the "its a good as it gets" premise


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> And yes, women too are responsible for their orgasms and should expect them, ensure that sex gives them the stimulation they need, and not give up until they get what they need. Unfortunately, too many women feel guilty for asking for this attention.


That seems to be a list of things women should change. Why would it be the man's responsibility?



always_alone said:


> Unfortunately, too many believe what you do: that they don't really deserve as much because they are "too complex".


I do believe that women's orgasms are more complex, but I certainly don't believe that, therefore, they don't deserve them.



always_alone said:


> And, what I can't help but notice here is that again, you've shifted all blame onto the women. It's *never* the man who is bad in bed. Or failing to meet her needs. It's always *her*. If sex doesn't get him off well enough, it's because she's too selfish, LD, prudish whatever. If it doesn't get her off, it's because she isn't trying hard enough. Never do we say, you know what? Men need to know more about women's sexuality if they want to be successful at pleasing them. They need to get over their hangups about oral. They need to realize that rolling over and going to sleep after they've O'ed is not cool. They need to know that PIV itself is not actually enough for most women.


Again, it seems like you believe that there are steps women should take to improve things. 

Women can do something about this.

Or, they can hope that men change.

I think the first has the better chance of succeeding.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

Vega said:


> Buddy400 said:
> 
> 
> > Not all _men_ are the same either, Buddy. Just like women, what works for some won't work for others.
> ...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

always_alone said:


> And as I have said over and over and over on this forum, I do know absolutely what it is like to be with someone who isn't meeting my needs. The difference is that *I don't think threats, destabilization, or attempts to control another person are actually going to lead to a better sex life. Quite the opposite, in fact.*


Totally agree!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

TX-SC said:


> I can't speak FOR my wife but I can say for sure that she doesn't fake orgasms and that she doesn't always have one. Sometimes, for whatever reason, she just isn't interested in an orgasm. * She'll come right out and say "Let's just focus on you today." *I enjoy sex and seeing her orgasm is one of the most erotic things ever. So, yes, I work towards that every time. But sometimes she just wants the closeness and not the orgasm.


 I literally can't say or go here with my husband... he cares TOO MUCH about mine.. this doesn't bother me.. I find it very sweet & loving.. he may even lose his erection if I let him know it's just about him...

So I bring him to the finish, no reason he should miss out...he genuinely feels bad if I don't get mine.. these days... I just tell him with a grin...

"You're going to DO me tomorrow!!"......sometimes he'll joke with a sigh ... he doesn't mean it....he's happy he's on the hook for it....so long as he has enough time to re-coup...


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I literally can't say or go here with my husband... he cares TOO MUCH about mine.. this doesn't bother me.. I find it very sweet & loving.. he may even lose his erection if I let him know it's just about him...
> 
> So I bring him to the finish, no reason he should miss out...he genuinely feels bad if I don't get mine.. these days... I just tell him with a grin...
> 
> "You're going to DO me tomorrow!!"......sometimes he'll joke with a sigh ... he doesn't mean it....he's happy he's on the hook for it....so long as he has enough time to re-coup...


I agree with your husband for the most part.  Seeing her orgasm and knowing she enjoyed it is an important part of sex for me. But, over time I've learned that forcing the issue is not a good move and just stresses her out anyway. So, I just let it go.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@holland I'm glad you chimed in - you expressed my thoughts exactly about staying with a selfish lover...

However I do get why people stay in relationships where the sex sucks. Sometimes they love their partner and just cut them too much slack - because their partner is busy, tired, stress, etc. 

And they love and care for their partner.

Unfortunately, when does it end? When is sex a priority? Sadly, the onus is on the most sex starved one to "disrupt" the relationship, as another poster said.

It's very unfair - the one missing sex the most becomes the bad guy for making it an issue.

Anyway - I had to accept that my W wasn't concerned about achieving O each time. It boggles my mind but I accept it and she appreciates my accepting her decisions about herself.

I guess I am HD - code for "normal guy" - and maybe her drive is less but she is not LD. So we do "something" every night now. 

But I do recognize that her Os are very good for us both - I want her to O first always because I enjoy her pleasure - but as someone said earlier it is difficult for her to deal with the long period it takes to recover from the arrousal at times. Therefore she can have difficulties falling asleep, and she doesn't tolerate staying awake well.

So it's completely her value judgements - enjoy an O but lose a few hours calming down, versus getting aroused by NSA BJ or HJ - but being able to roll over and sleep afterwards.

As a guy I know my answer - O then play on the computer for an hour or two - my W on the other hand has a different value judgement.

Viva la difference.

Truely if I had my choice she'd have incredible sex every night, but she prefers to provide NSA sex to me unless she feels the arousal curve outweighs the sleep deprivation curve. Her choice.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> Again, it seems like you believe that there are steps women should take to improve things.
> 
> Women can do something about this.
> 
> ...


It is interesting that no matter what, you seem to have concluded that each and every sexual problem is entirely the fault of women and entirely the onus of women to fix.

And yet you wonder why you had to threaten your wife into wanting more sex with you.

Oh right, it's because women are defective and broken and something is wrong with them. They should be out there fixing everything but too bad they're too selfish to do their "wifely duty"


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I suppose I need more experience giving men orgasms.
> 
> However, I've seen numbers like 25% or women never orgasm. I'd doubt if 1% of men haven't, so I'd imagine there must be something trickier about women.


What's trickier is that men are provided validation for their sexuality, while women are shamed for it. We're supposed to be "good girls" and supposedly good girls don't have sex. And remember that guys (lots of them at any rate) absolutely do not want to partner with one of those women who did have sex. They will use them and dump them and loathe them, but they don't view them as "marriage material" or even "LTR" material

Apparently "marriage material" is a woman who avoids sex until she meets him, and then if the switch doesn't flip fast enough, he's here on TAM complaining about how women aren't sexual and are too complex. And how it couldn't possibly have anything to do with them that so many end up in this position.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Vega said:


> Not all _men_ are the same either, Buddy. Just like women, what works for some won't work for others.
> 
> Some men LOVE their balls handled "roughly". Some can't stand the pain. Some LOVE having their penis sucked and licked, kissed and caressed. Others HATE the idea of any woman putting her mouth on his c*ck.
> 
> ...


Exactly! Some men can't bear sexually aggressive women, and will go limp if he doesn't feel in control, while other men need to be tied up and spanked for being naughty widdle boys before they can get off.

Some men think foreplay is a waste of time, and all that matters is a quick pump, but some will revel in the sensual pleasure of tantric sex and hold off orgasms for multiple sessions.

Some men cannot stand to have their nippless touched, and others will pierce them for the additional stimulation it provides.

Men are way complex too.

The cause of the orgasm gap between men and women is, IMHO a direct result of spending eons understanding and catering to male sexuality while trying to pretend that women didn't even have one. In the Victorian era, for example, it was thought that women didn"t orgasm, and then later, when it was "discovered" that they did, it was considered superfluous because, supposedly, women's orgasms were not essential to procreation. Basically the sexual liberation movement came out of a massive, massive ignorance about women's sexuality, and while we've made some progress since then, a lot of people seem to prefer to remain ignorant.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Hmmmmm a lot of back and forth and blame here.

Everyone is different and you have to learn WITH your partner.

I believe women are often more complex in achieving an O - whether it is because of social conditioning, etc. I think women tend to be more social in general - more sensitive to others - and that can cause some of them to have a more difficult time focusing on themselves to achieve O. But that's not true across the board but it is something for men to consider

[edit] this could be cultural and generational - I'm in my 50s


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I don't know for sure, but it sounds like on average it is more difficult for women to orgasm than for men. There are posts by women who have difficulty reaching orgasm, even by themselves, but that seems pretty rare in men.


PIV will provide an orgasm for most men, but not for a significant fraction of women. Many women can orgasm from skilfully delivered oral, but not all. Some need vibrators.


The statistics don't really matter though, what matters is that people try to please their partners.






always_alone said:


> Exactly! Orgasms for women are no more complex than for men. It's just that women are *supposed* to orgasm from PIV alone, or other such actions which are what men find stimulating and desirable.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Absolutely agree - and of course applies to men as well. Different people like different things, its not reasonable to expect your partner to just figure it out - though sadly that is exactly what a lot of people do.

The other side of this is that people should listen to and try to do what their partners enjoy. 

I think one common problem is to assume that your partner enjoys what you enjoy. 





OliviaG said:


> I can't see where it is the man's responsibility to get the woman to O. I can see where he needs to make it a priority to help her achieve it, but ultimately, she is responsible for her O. She needs to ask for what she needs, maybe not in words, but to lead him to do what works for her. Otherwise, how could he know?


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> It is interesting that no matter what, you seem to have concluded that each and every sexual problem is entirely the fault of women and entirely the onus of women to fix.


The person (or group) that isn't happy can do something about it.

Or they can complain that other people should do something about it.



always_alone said:


> And yet you wonder why you had to threaten your wife into wanting more sex with you.


You have me confused with someone else. I've never threatened my wife into having more sex with me.



always_alone said:


> Oh right, it's because women are defective and broken and something is wrong with them. They should be out there fixing everything but too bad they're too selfish to do their "wifely duty"


I really have no idea why you would think that I would believe such things.

No doubt some men might think like that, but I'm not one of them. 

You need to realize that not all men fit into your preconceived stereotypes. You have a fit if men do this regarding women, try to be consistent.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

always_alone said:


> The cause of the orgasm gap between men and women is, IMHO a direct result of spending eons understanding and catering to male sexuality while trying to pretend that women didn't even have one. In the Victorian era, for example, it was thought that women didn"t orgasm, and then later, when it was "discovered" that they did, it was considered superfluous because, supposedly, women's orgasms were not essential to procreation. Basically the sexual liberation movement came out of a massive, massive ignorance about women's sexuality, and while we've made some progress since then, a lot of people seem to prefer to remain ignorant.


I checked with my D22. I asked her if women these days were taught that their sexual needs shouldn't exist or should be valued less than men's.

She said no.

I think this WAS a problem. I believe it is becoming less so with each passing year.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I'm 37. With one exception, every man I've slept with since my divorce has been very attentive to my sexual needs, some to the extent that they prioritized my needs over their own. They've all been faithful adherents to the "she comes first" mentality.

I even had one partner, to whom I said during the first time we had sex, "Don't stress over it, I never orgasm the first time I'm with new partner." Because it was true, up until that point--I had come to accept that it never happened the first time around. Well, he took that as a personal challenge, and made sure that I did--multiple times--before we were done.

That being said, to address the original question, I've had great, meaningful sex without an orgasm. In those times (I'm thinking of a specific, recent moment), I've gotten very, very close, and I was really enjoying what we were doing, so I didn't want to stop and say, "This isn't getting me there, so can we stop and do something else?" I wasn't going to do that, because I was with HIM, and TOGETHER we were in the ZONE. There was no way I was going to interrupt that. (With a different partner, maybe... but not with him.) And when we were done, I was very satisfied. I wouldn't have been happier or more satisfied necessarily, if we had changed it up to something else to make sure I had an orgasm. 

Put with my current partner, this is, I think, the only time that I haven't had an orgasm with him. If not having an orgasm was a regular, consistent thing, I would be disappointed. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> I can't see where it is the man's responsibility to get the woman to O.


But is it the _woman's_ responsibility to get the _man_ to O?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Vega said:


> But is it the _woman's_ responsibility to get the _man_ to O?


Why the battlefield mentality from some?

If peoples sex lives are all about who gets the most and who's responsibility it is to give more then you are doing it wrong.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Buddy400 said:


> I checked with my D22. I asked her if women these days were taught that their sexual needs shouldn't exist or should be valued less than men's.
> 
> She said no.
> 
> I think this WAS a problem. I believe it is becoming less so with each passing year.


My youngest is 14, has her first boyfriend. We have had various talks about life, love and sex. She knows not to send pics to any boy, that she is important and that she is not to pressure or be pressured into things she doesn't want to do.
We have had discussions around the fact that sex is a good and healthy part of life.

At my kids school they do a 3 year program around sex and health. There is a fair part of the content that is about respect for yourself and for others.

I think my teenagers have a better grasp on some of this than many adults.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

I find it both hilarious and somewhat fascinating that it's impossible to make the statement that men can be bad in bed and have even just one person nod and say, yep, men can be bad in bed. Instead we must rush to their defence, and of course, blame women for every single solitary sexual problem.

Wild.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Vega said:


> But is it the _woman's_ responsibility to get the _man_ to O?


Of course it is. Otherwise, TAM wouldn't be full of guys complaining about selfish women who refuse to do their wifely duties. And destabilizing their marriages so that they can be sure to get their needs met with sufficient frequency and variety.

We're free to criticize women's abilities in the sack. Just not men's.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think if two people have to 'work' at giving each other O's...you're not with the right person. Barring a true medical condition, it shouldn't ever be 'work.'


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> I find it both hilarious and somewhat fascinating that it's impossible to make the statement that men can be bad in bed *and have even just one person nod and say, yep, men can be bad in bed. * Instead we must rush to their defence, and of course, blame women for every single solitary sexual problem.
> 
> Wild.


Well I for one have said in this very thread that yes some men can be bad in bed. Using absolutes in a discussion is not helpful.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> I don't know for sure, but it sounds like on average it is more difficult for women to orgasm than for men. There are posts by women who have difficulty reaching orgasm, even by themselves, but that seems pretty rare in men.
> 
> 
> ...


Statistics can reveal patterns though. Which makes them interesting because they can reveal that an individual problem is in fact a systemic one. 

It is easy to dismiss the individual anecdote. Less easy when the problem applies widely. (Although clearly easy enough for many.)

Just because PIV gives most men orgasm doesn't mean that it is "simpler" for them. It just means that different things get people off. And, plenty of men find it difficult to orgasm. ED is way more widespread than people really admit or talk about. Because, you know, it isn't manly.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

Holland said:


> Well I for one have said in this very thread that yes some men can be bad in bed. Using absolutes in a discussion is not helpful.


Oops, sorry, my bad. I forgot that.

And to be completely fair, I've seen others acknowledge it, too. But often at the exact same time dismissing it, as though only the rarest of losers could possibly be bad in bed. But the reality is that there is a ton of ignorance around women's sexuality.

And while I do have hope for the younger generations, studies have revealed that young women today *expect* sex to be unpleasant and even painful for them. Why? Because sex involves activities that are painful, that's what happens in porn, that's just the way it is. Whereas young men expect it to be pleasurable for them, and painful for their partners.

If *that* isn't effed up, I don't know what is.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

We have to be careful of too many generalizations here. Yes, some men are bad in bed. Yes, some women are bad in bed too. We're all human and prone to strengths and weaknesses. Although women are often portrayed as "sensual" I've had a few that could best be described as a "bull in a china shop" with no finesse at all. Just as there are many men (me included) that are very sensual when the time calls for it. 

I don't think it's a spouses duty to please their husband or wife. It should be their desire.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

OliviaG said:


> I can't see where it is the man's responsibility to get the woman to O. I can see where he needs to make it a priority to help her achieve it, but ultimately, she is responsible for her O. She needs to ask for what she needs, maybe not in words, but to lead him to do what works for her. Otherwise, how could he know?


I think more like you Olivia.. in our early relationship..I KNEW what felt good & what does it for me.. if he touched too deep & it hurt.. I told him so, I'd tell him to do it "like this"...

If I got off on top.. I made it a priority to get on top & ride.. when he's on top. I grab his a$$ and move him where I want him to be sometimes.. I want mine!!...

I can't relate to the idea of "we're not supposed to care" or it's all about the man... who says, I never felt this way at all.. I'd call myself a selfish Lover.. but I'm giving too!..It matters he gets his !!...We are both important, it's a mutual experience.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Oops, sorry, my bad. I forgot that.
> 
> And to be completely fair, I've seen others acknowledge it, too. But often at the exact same time dismissing it, as though only the rarest of losers could possibly be bad in bed. But the reality is that there is a ton of ignorance around women's sexuality.
> 
> ...


There is more to this than just the act of sex. As parents it is our responsibility to teach our kids about the realities and obligations of sex.
Eg I have always taught my kids that advertising is false and designed to get people to buy stuff they don't need, porn is no different and young adults should be taught that it is fake. 

One thing that amazes me is that people do not embrace the concept of EQ. My personal experience shows a direct correlation between men that have a high EQ and their worth as a lover. It is a hard one to teach the kids but I am doing this is subtle ways.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

What is EQ?


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

TX-SC said:


> What is EQ?





> What is Emotional Intelligence (EQ)? By Michael Akers & Grover Porter
> ~ 2 min read
> For most people, emotional intelligence (EQ) is more important than one’s intelligence (IQ) in attaining success in their lives and careers. As individuals our success and the success of the profession today depend on our ability to read other people’s signals and react appropriately to them.
> 
> ...


from
What is Emotional Intelligence (EQ)? | Psych Central




> EQ | Define EQ at Dictionary.com
> EQ | Define EQ at Dictionary.com
> abbreviation. 1. emotional quotient, a (notional) measure of a person's adequacy in such areas as self-awareness, empathy, and dealing sensitively with other people.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Interesting. Never heard of that.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I am the first to admit my partner has a much higher EQ than me, he also has a very high IQ.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> PIV will provide an orgasm for most men, but not for a significant fraction of women. .


The reason WHY most men orgasm from PIV is because they are getting the _kind _of stimulation _for as long as they need it_. 

Not all men are 'built' the same way here, either. Some men may orgasm in 5 minutes from the missionary position. That same man may take 15 minutes with HER on top. And again, the same man may take 5 minutes to climax from a certain position TODAY, and 12 minutes tomorrow....7.5 minutes the following week. 

But he will orgasm because he's "allowed" the time to do so along with the kind of stimulation he needs. 

Not the same for women.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I agree with the early part of what you wrote, but when you say
"he will orgasm because he is allowed..." I think that is an over-generalization.

Yes, for some couples its all about the man - they do what he wants, when he wants. For others its the opposite.

In my case, since I'm HD, my wife LD, I'm up for pretty much ANYTHING she wants. If she wants to be on top she gets it. She wants oral she gets it. I've gone without an orgasm far more often than she does. For many years she had no real interest in knowing what I enjoyed. 

Things are much better now and almost always we both O during some part of lovemaking.

I don't doubt you have experienced men who are selfish lovers. I also know that some women are selfish lovers. Its bad in both cases. 


As an aside, I thought that many women could not orgasm just form PIV, no matter how it was done. My experience is quite limited, but none of my partners have ever had an O from PIV without some other stimulation at the same time. That is what I meant about it being more difficult for women. 




Vega said:


> The reason WHY most men orgasm from PIV is because they are getting the _kind _of stimulation _for as long as they need it_.
> 
> Not all men are 'built' the same way here, either. Some men may orgasm in 5 minutes from the missionary position. That same man may take 15 minutes with HER on top. And again, the same man may take 5 minutes to climax from a certain position TODAY, and 12 minutes tomorrow....7.5 minutes the following week.
> 
> ...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> As an aside, I thought that many women could not orgasm just form PIV, no matter how it was done. My experience is quite limited, but none of my partners have ever had an O from PIV without some other stimulation at the same time. That is what I meant about it being more difficult for women.


Most women don't orgasm from PIV alone. But I really don't see why this makes it "difficult". If you can find those positions that are good for her, you'll have much greater success. And besides, why reduce sex to PIV? 

But yes, I do agree that not all men achieve orgasm every time, and they too need certain kinds of stimulation for certain amounts of time before they can orgasm. Men are "difficult" too.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> I can't see where it is the man's responsibility to get the woman to O. I can see where he needs to make it a priority to help her achieve it, but ultimately, she is responsible for her O. She needs to ask for what she needs, maybe not in words, but to lead him to do what works for her. Otherwise, how could he know?


I was thinking about this, and his is how I see it:

I don't need my SO at all to orgasm. At all. I can take care of myself, and do quite a nice job of it. Indeed, me alone is vastly better than him when he is disengaged. So, given that, why would I have sex with him at all if he isn't going to take an active interest in my orgasm?

On the flipside my SO has ED. And if I don't take an active interest in his orgasm, well it ain't happening. I mean, he too can take care of himself and have a fine time without me. But assuming we're having sex, it's because we are taking responsibility for each other's orgasm.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

always_alone said:


> OliviaG said:
> 
> 
> > I can't see where it is the man's responsibility to get the woman to O. I can see where he needs to make it a priority to help her achieve it, but ultimately, she is responsible for her O. She needs to ask for what she needs, maybe not in words, but to lead him to do what works for her. Otherwise, how could he know?
> ...


There you go - great answer @always_alone!


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
An orgasm isn't the only important thing about sex, otherwise people would just take care of themselves - quicker and easier for most. OTOH, sex without an orgasm is missing an important part - at least if it happens often. 

Its sort of a version of sex withing a marriage. Sex isn't the only important thing in marriage, but its difficult for a marriage to be good if the sex is bad.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Your question does not compute. Of course it's not the woman's responsibility to get the man to O.
> 
> Are you looking for an adversarial relationship or a lover?
> 
> ...


I think you have nailed the fundamental differences in mindset between people who are satisfied and happy in bed, and those who aren't.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I agree with what you wrote above. Just a comment on the snip below: Some of us have not been blessed with long tongues and are limited in what we can do with them - despite our best efforts :smile2:

If he is willing, you can rid his face pretty hard (if you are facing his feet) without hurting him - just be sure he can let you know if you get too rough.

I think the real key is whether or not he wants to please you.

BTW - I can imagine some men (and women) feel inadequate when they are not able to please their partners and that can lead them to incorrectly try to pressure their partners for an O. 




notmyrealname4 said:


> snip
> Oral is nice, but it's like a sample-size orgasm. Very localized in my clit and vulva area. To really enjoy it, I'd have to ride his nose and jaw so hard, I'm sure I'd injure him, so I have to restrain myself. Whenever I've asked him (really had to work up my courage) to put his tongue IN me, he has but not much. I worried that I smelled or tasted bad; so I tasted my own fluids (gross, but I had to know), they tasted a bit salty and sour, very mild - so I don't think it would have been disgusting to do that for him.
> snip
> .


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

And that's the way it is "supposed" to be, Olivia. Let's face it, men, in general, are limited in what they can do for their SO only by the lack of communication. If the woman wants her O, she must find out first what can get her there, and then communicate it with her man. If she doesn't communicate what works for her, it is on her, in my opinion. It's the responsibility of BOTH to be able to communicate what works for them in the bedroom, otherwise it can lead to frustration and resentment. Any reasonably good lover who cares about their partner will WANT to do what pleases their partner.


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## GavinM (Jan 13, 2014)

Hi, Im the OP. I want to thank everyone for their comments and feedback. It was certainly a lot more then I expected and a bit overwhelming.

I guess as to my original question the feedback has been pretty clear that as I had expected sex, over the long run, without being able to reach orgasm is going to be unfulfilling and frustrating. 

This is the situation that I and especially my wife need to deal
with daily. Even though I asked the question Ive always known how she really felt due to some explicit history we have. However because of some mixed signals from her I always held out some doubt. Its clear to me that the mixed signals were simply her trying to protect my feelings and insecurities. 

Gavin


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
funny how different people are. My wife tried this twice didn't think much of it even though I think its great fun.

On your other comment - I'm not sure beauty is that closely related to sexual interest. I think beauty attracts attention initially and may cause desire, but is not that important to many people during sex. (often during sex you really can't see all that much of the other person...).

I don't know what causes a person to really be into someone during sex. 





notmyrealname4 said:


> snip
> Yes 69 is the best for oral sex. By far. But if I push too hard, he starts to retract. I probably am far too aggressive. I can't help that. And he can't help that it's making him uncomfortable.
> Once again, kind of a turn off to think that he's gagging back there. Sitting on his face really was a turn on, but I want to go so hard; and I sympathize with him - I wouldn't want him shoving his penis violently down my throat; and he never has.
> snip


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> I don't know what causes a person to really be into someone during sex.



Love....for one...


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Yes, I'd agree with that. But you are only taking responsibility to do what you can figure out that will please him. He is also responsible for communicating what works for him to you.


That would be the ideal. But no, he does not communicate what he likes. He says "it's all good" and leaves it up to me to figure out all the tricks.

Apparently his orgasm *is* my responsibility. And to be frank, I am also pretty happy when he brings something new and inspiring to the table too.

Don't get me wrong. I do agree that communication is a good thing. But I also think there is some pretty serious responsibility there as well.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

notmyrealname4 said:


> You must be really pretty. Not that you don't have other admirable traits and a good character, and so forth. But to have guys really into you that much, I think you must have a lot of physical attractiveness.
> 
> That's great . But if you're more average (raises hand), you don't really inspire that type of devotion; well not for a while, until you are valued for your other contributions to his life.
> 
> I'm not trying to martyr myself. It is a factor though in how much guys are willing to do for you, or how patient and kind they are. Well, that's what I truly think.


This is more or less my experience too. I've never been one to inspire devotion, and like you have tried my best to communicate my needs only time have them ignored or met with disbelief.

I get the feeling I am "supposed" to react a certain way, and because that wasn't my way, something was wrong with me. I had to adjust, to make accommodations, to accept what I could get because it was up to me to please him and not the other way around. Yes, he wanted me pleased, but on his terms, according to his agenda, and only with things that he himself found pleasing.

I have noticed that other women seem to be better at having guys be willing to do pretty much anything for them, but certainly no one has been up for that for me.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Well maybe everything that you instinctively do works for him, in which case, that's easy and great for you. But if he should not be reaching O for some reason and refused to give you any direction to get him there, then he could not blame *you* for failing to be a good lover. It would be *his* fault.


He has never blamed me for being a lousy lover. But I find myself tempted to blame him.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Do you lead him? If you do, does he follow?


Yes. And no. 

Like I keep saying, it doesn't matter a whit what I say I want. He was told by his first girlfriend and/or porn what he should do. And that was that.

And my experience before him was similar. Guys did what they liked, what made them happy, and that was supposed to make me happy too. And if it doesn't? Well, seems that something is wrong with me.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

always_alone said:


> Yes. And no.
> 
> Like I keep saying, it doesn't matter a whit what I say I want. He was told by his first girlfriend and/or porn what he should do. And that was that.
> 
> And my experience before him was similar. Guys did what they liked, what made them happy, and that was supposed to make me happy too. And if it doesn't? Well, seems that something is wrong with me.


This is waaaaaay too familiar. Pretty much my experience with nearly EVERY man *I* was with, too...


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

always_alone said:


> Yes. And no.
> 
> Like I keep saying, it doesn't matter a whit what I say I want. He was told by his first girlfriend and/or porn what he should do. And that was that.
> 
> And my experience before him was similar. Guys did what they liked, what made them happy, and that was supposed to make me happy too. And if it doesn't? Well, seems that something is wrong with me.


I had this experience several times over in my younger days, before marriage/divorce, and found it more prevalent with the younger rather than older men.

I was dumped by one guy in particular because he couldn't make me orgasm. He insisted that every girl (all 2 of them) he had been with before me had orgasmed with him every time. I thought, hmmm... even the first time? Either you were very lucky, or she was faking it. He lacked the maturity to realize that every woman is different, and the self-awareness to understand that he had to pay attention to her and adjust.

The men I'm meeting now... most are older and wiser, but they also aren't interested in a relationship. So maybe that's the trade-off :/


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> I'm not really sure why experiences, especially experiences with multiple partners, should be so different between us. If it happens over and over again it seems less likely to be luck; so it makes me wonder what's going on?


It is very easy for me to O. I've often wondered if my experience was because it is so easy that it encouraged laziness. The "job" is done, as it were, and so no need for any more.

And so yes, I pretty much always have an orgasm with sex, and wouldn't have it any other way. But it doesn't mean it was good sex, nor that the guy cared much about what I wanted. More like they did what made them happy, and to feel good about themselves as lovers they wanted to say that I had a good time too. I felt like a role rather than a person. Certainly I could never describe it as "he was so into me" or that my pleasure was at he forefront of his mind. 

Indeed, I've had guys tell me things like "it's supposed to feel like that", or "my ex loved that" when I've expressed discomfort. I dated one guy who would bite me so hard I would bleed and insisted that *I* was the one who liked that. And couldn't hear otherwise.

To be clear, my SO is better than all of that, and it is why I am with him. If I tell him it hurts, he stops. If I tell him I want a certain position he'll do it. And we had some pretty awesome sex for years. But he isn't really interested in me any more, and seems to do as little as possible. He won't ever explore foreplay, no matter how much I ask. When I talk to him, he tells me something like "not all orgasms can be good" or something like that. 

I'm not asking anyone to climb Mt Kilimanjaro or anything. And if *I'm* asking too much, my heart goes out that much more to women who do find it challenging to orgasm. There is nothing quite so terrible as having someone cross at you because you aren't delivering what they expected in bed.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> I had this experience several times over in my younger days, before marriage/divorce, and found it more prevalent with the younger rather than older men.
> 
> I was dumped by one guy in particular because he couldn't make me orgasm. He insisted that every girl (all 2 of them) he had been with before me had orgasmed with him every time. I thought, hmmm... even the first time? Either you were very lucky, or she was faking it. He lacked the maturity to realize that every woman is different, and the self-awareness to understand that he had to pay attention to her and adjust.
> 
> The men I'm meeting now... most are older and wiser, but they also aren't interested in a relationship. So maybe that's the trade-off :/


Yes, I haven't dated in 20 years, give or take, and so who knows what I would encounter now. 

But IME, the guys back then weren't terribly interested in relationships either.

I dunno. I guess I'm just not a terribly inspiring person ..


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Maybe it is just self-selection in posting but if feels like there is a bimodal distribution in how men behave as lovers.

I hear women say, and I believe them, that their partners do what they want, and seem to make no effort to please them. I hear men say, and I believe them that they are happy to do anything to please their partners. 

Maybe women who are with men who are good lovers don't tend to post? Men who are good lovers, but who's partners are more selfish do post? 

Are these the same people and the same actions are viewed so differently? Maybe he *thinks* he is doing everything that she wants, but really isn't? 

I see what looks like the same for women. Some seem to be willing to do anything to please their partners, but many men complain that their wives seem selfish. 


I think I do everything my wife wants in bed - but does she think that? (no, she won't say) Does she think she does everything that I want?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

It has taken me 25 years to learn how to satisfy a woman. Not because women are hard to satisfy but because of my own lack of knowledge. If you had asked me 25 years ago if I were a great lover I would have given you an emphatic "yes." I think all men, to a degree, think they are great lovers. 
Only now, 25 years later, do I realize that I knew nothing.

It's like trying to explain life to an 18 year old. They think they know everything and you know nothing. Only time and experience change their minds. I believe sex is the same way.

When I first got married, my wife was really in to me. So what would that make me think? It made me think that everything was OK, that I was a good lover. Faked orgasms that I thought were real just reinforced my thinking. Not until my wife simply gave up that I could clearly see something was wrong and that she was no longer "in to me."

Having said all this, if I follow my own logic, my present day opinion about my own sexual skills are very positive. However, I could still be deluding myself. Therefore I must keep learning and applying what I learn every day. I NEVER in a million years would have thought I would be having the best sex of my life with a woman I've been married to for 25 years. That, in and of itself tells me that there is more to be had. The future is bright.

Communicate, educate and apply. Never give up and the sky is the limit.

BTW- I tried to think back on how many women I had been with prior to marriage and the number is 20. Even after all that, I learned nothing.


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## happy2gether (Dec 6, 2015)

my wife has several medical issues that at times can leave her unable to orgasm. She says she enjoys the sex either way, but when these issues crop up I can always tell she is less into it then normal. At that point I usually give her a few days break between sex because it makes her feel bad that she can't orgasm. By skipping a few days, we normally have some form of sex about 6-8 times a week, it gives her body time to recover and the sexual tension time to build. This usually results in a huge orgasm for her, followed quickly by several smaller ones. So in our case the answer is no sex is not fulfilling without orgasm, though it may still be very pleasurable.

Know your partners, learn how to give them the most pleasure, and forget about your own pleasure to focus on them. believe me, it works!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> I think if two people have to 'work' at giving each other O's...you're not with the right person. Barring a true medical condition, it shouldn't ever be 'work.'


Not picking on you, but it was this kind of mentality that made me think I was "broken" when I first started having sex and had no orgasms at all but my partners did every single time and then some.

It took me a long, long time to realize I was not broken and that orgasms don't come unless I received the proper stimulation. It didn't just magically happen when I was with the right person.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Some of the issue just come down to communication. People need to feel comfortable telling their partners what they want in bed - they may think its obvious but it isn't. The flip side of that is that people need to not be judgmental about what they are asked for - they don't need to do everything asked, but a reaction of "why would you want that" (implying "you perv!") will shut down communication.


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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

OliviaG said:


> I'm not really sure why experiences, especially experiences with multiple partners, should be so different between us. If it happens over and over again it seems less likely to be luck; so it makes me wonder what's going on?


I think it's because you do a better job of making sure the guy is "into you" before having sex. I think "Into you" is another way of saying that they genuinely care about your happiness. 

Lots of things are going to be better with a partner who genuinely cares about your happiness, not just sex.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> I think all men, to a degree, think they are great lovers.


Unfortunately, this kind of thinking is the crux of a good majority of relationship problems: The Ego. 

You wrote that if anyone asked you 25 years _ago_ if you were a "good lover" you would have emphatically said, "Yes!" 

Everyone is at different levels of maturity in their thinking. Hence, Always Alone's ex's probably thought that THEY were "good lovers", too. Their immature ego wouldn't allow them to think otherwise. 

But it was clear that they were also selfish, blamed _HER_ for not reaching orgasms and seemed to believe that it was HER role to please THEM. Obviously, this is NOT mature thinking on their part. (But _*shhhhhhh*_....don't tell THEM that!...)

Unfortunately, there are a LOT of immature men around. They span the ages from 15 up to 95 years old. Many 40 and 50 year olds are still stuck in that "high school" mentality. You'll hear a lot of men who will say something like, "You would (name something he wants) if you loved me". 

It's good to see that there really ARE men out there who have matured beyond their own selves.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> So you've always had an orgasm (and often multiples, I presume) during sex but still found it to be bad sex? What is it that you were expecting these guys to do that they didn't do? I'm really confused.


Your comment wasn't directed at me, but one can orgasm, and the sex can still be bad. With my XH, whenever we DID have sex (which was infrequent enough for my marriage to be considered sexless), I always had an orgasm because he knew what buttons to push, but the sex was bad because it was obvious that he wasn't "into me." He was making sure that I came, but he wasn't paying attention to me or doing it because he wanted me to be happy. He was doing it because.... who the fvcked knows? He wanted to justify that he was a good lover? An ego thing? But the sex was all around bad because the emotional connection wasn't there.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> Some of the issue just come down to communication. People need to feel comfortable telling their partners what they want in bed - they may think its obvious but it isn't. The flip side of that is that people need to not be judgmental about what they are asked for - they don't need to do everything asked, but a reaction of "why would you want that" (implying "you perv!") will shut down communication.


Communication is key. I am bad at communicating what I want, at least verbally I have problems. (That's my baggage from decades on emotional neglect and abuse.) So I need a partner who knows how to listen to me in other ways, and who pays attention to my breathing, my body cues, etc. Half the time, I don't even know how to explain what it is that I want, because when in the throes of passion, I can enter this strange altered state of consciousness and pure sensation, in that I don't even know what my partner is doing, just that I am loving it and don't want it to stop.

How can you explain something to a partner, when you don't even know what it is that he's doing?

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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> I think you missed a critical piece of information in UMPs post: his wife *faked* orgasm with him over all those years. Why wouldn't he think he was a good lover?!
> 
> I don't think a guy can be blamed if his wife is not communicating what she likes to him. And even more so if his wife is actively misleading him!


25 years ago he also had already been with 20 other women _BEFORE_ his wife, who he probably had "no complaints" from.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

OliviaG said:


> Exactly.


Soooooo.....? 

I don't get it...

Did the other 20 women mislead him also? Did he start thinking he was a 'great' lover after the FIRST woman? The 5th? The 19th but still before his wife?

ETA: The point I'm trying to make is that his thinking that he was a "great lover" COULD have been attributed to the OTHER 20 women he slept with BEFORE his wife. I mean, you can have great sex WITHOUT having an orgasm. You can also have BAD sex WITH an orgasm.

The fact that he thought he was a "great lover" 25 years ago may have NOTHING to do with his *wife* 'faking it', although her faking it may have _reinforced_ a (false) belief that he already had about himself. 

Better?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I wonder if there is a difference in how effectively people provide clues? Could that be related to whether or not they have had good experiences with partners?

Its clear that the issues can be subtle: someone can have multiple orgasms in a lovemaking session but still feel it was bad sex. I completely understand that - but at the same time its easy to understand someone thinking that they are doing everything right if their partner has multiple O's and doesn't say that they want anything different.








OliviaG said:


> You don't always have to communicate in words. I hardly ever do. But you give cues, you move yourself or him to a slightly altered position, you orgasm (that's a clue, right there!) or you grimace (in pain). A good lover should pick up on those things. And if he's doing something you love and don't want to stop, then say "that feels great...don't stop!" even if you don't know exactly what he's doing.
> 
> If you're just generally unhappy because your partner isn't picking up on anything you like or seems basically clueless, then you are going to have to resort to words. But it's not an easy thing to convey in words.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
that brings up an interesting thought. Do men and women who appear attractive / desirable at first contact tend to be less generous lovers because they have never needed to be? I'm not blaming - but if members of your desired sex have always been falling over themselves to be with you, you might never realize that you aren't being a great lover.

Here I'm just talking on average, in not way tying to imply that this is universally true. 

I guess experiments are in order - I'll volunteer to have sex with a large number of extremely desirable women and see if on average they are good lovers....... :wink2:




OliviaG said:


> If 20 women before his wife never told him any different and his wife faked it, how is he supposed to know any different?
> 
> There are certain guys that a type of women just go for and it's possible that UMP is one of them - he's said that he used to race cars and golf a lot and - I can't remember the rest but other "manly men" pursuits. There's a type of woman that will compete for a man like that over nothing more in depth than his masculinity. This is exactly the type of woman who puts up with bad sex and all sorts of other stuff she doesn't like, with a smile, because it's the price she will pay to be with that particular guy.
> 
> I don't know UMP beyond TAM but it wouldn't surprise me if something like this was the reason why he never learned the truth from a woman until late in life. I'm sure it happens a lot.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> that brings up an interesting thought. * Do men and women who appear attractive / desirable at first contact tend to be less generous lovers because they have never needed to be? I'm not blaming - but if members of your desired sex have always been falling over themselves to be with you, you might never realize that you aren't being a great lover.*
> 
> Here I'm just talking on average, in not way tying to imply that this is universally true.
> ...


Are you suggesting that the less attractive a person is the better lover they are? Sorry it is a bot confusing.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Holland said:


> Are you suggesting that the less attractive a person is the better lover they are? Sorry it is a bot confusing.


I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's a widely held belief among a lot of people that yeah--ugly people try harder in the sack.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I have no idea if this is true or not, but it's a widely held belief among a lot of people that yeah--ugly people try harder in the sack.


Thankfully this has not been my experience. Not from either side of the equation :smile2:


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

norajane said:


> Not picking on you, but it was this kind of mentality that made me think I was "broken" when I first started having sex and had no orgasms at all but my partners did every single time and then some.
> 
> It took me a long, long time to realize I was not broken and that orgasms don't come unless I received the proper stimulation. It didn't just magically happen when I was with the right person.


I hear you and appreciate your comment. I still don't think sex with someone you're into, should be work. Think we're talking about two separate things, though.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Okay, so he *is* a good lover.


*Was* a good lover. Back in the day when he was still into it/me




OliviaG said:


> You mean he wants sex with absolutely no foreplay? Or you don't like his brand of foreplay? What does "explore foreplay" mean?
> 
> And are you complaining to him about the quality of the Os you have with him? I'm sorry to ask so many questions; I'm just trying to understand what's going on better.


Yes, I mean he wants sex with no foreplay. Or rather, he thinks rubbing my clit for a little while *is* foreplay, and will often do it in a way that is too rough, without lube, and so on. (And yes, I tell him and tell him, but he keeps doing it.)

And yes, I O. But I do because *I* make it happen, not because of what he does or doesn't do. And not all O's are created equal. My body might respond to the stimulation, but it doesn't mean that it is actually making me feel all that good.

And yes, of course, I've told him many times that I want him to do certain things. He tells me "not all O's can be great." Oh and that he is trying. Which I imagine is his way of saying "I don't really want to have sex with you at all, so ****** off and leave me alone." (But he denies that interpretation.)

In all other respects our relationship is fine. He says he loves me, wants to be with me, treats me well, and so on. And he thinks he's good in bed.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Well, that's awful. It sounds like he's just going through the motions now with no enthusiasm and like he doesn't really care. I agree with you; he's a bad lover.
> 
> How do you stand it? I don't know for sure how I'd handle that, but I feel pretty confident that I'd not be able to have sex with him under those circumstances. I'd cut him off, not in retaliation, but because he'd turn me off so much that there would be no point. The marriage would be in jeopardy unless things changed - I don't think I could stand being treated that way. I really feel for you.


I agree with all of this 

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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> Well, that's awful. It sounds like he's just going through the motions now with no enthusiasm and like he doesn't really care. I agree with you; he's a bad lover.
> 
> How do you stand it? I don't know for sure how I'd handle that, but I feel pretty confident that I'd not be able to have sex with him under those circumstances. I'd cut him off, not in retaliation, but because he'd turn me off so much that there would be no point. The marriage would be in jeopardy unless things changed - *I don't think I could stand being treated that way*. I really feel for you.


Probably the biggest difference between yourself, and always_alone, and Vega. Probably the reason for such vast differences in your experiences compared to theirs.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Probably the biggest difference between yourself, and always_alone, and Vega. Probably the reason for such vast differences in your experiences compared to theirs.


Yes, agreed. No one should ever put up with any sh1t they don't like. Always better to be alone!


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> I guess you're being sarcastic in your second quote, above. The way I see it, we all have to put up with a certain amount of "sh!t we don't like" in a relationship. Not all "sh!t" is worth destabilizing a marriage over. But any "sh!t" that indicates a fundamental lack of love and respect is, to me.


Yes, I was being sarcastic, and maybe it was uncalled for. But at the same time, it seems odd to me to immediately leap to "it's all your fault that you put up with this sh1t" as a response to the posts I was making.

Obviously I haven't done a great job of telling my story, but since it is in threadjack territory anyway, I will just stop.

Suffice to say, I think orgasm is crucial to good sex. And not just orgasm for orgasm's sake, but a rip roaring awesome orgasm that requires active involvement and interest from my partner.


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## always_alone (Dec 11, 2012)

OliviaG said:


> I'm surprised that the above is how you interpreted what I was saying. Blame? There is no blame; why would I blame you that your husband is behaving in a way that makes you feel unimportant to him and unloved?


My original post was in response to sam, who was pretty clear that what I experience is because *I* put up with it. 

I do appreciate the sympathy you've expressed both here and above!


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