# knocked the socks off the hubby... but....



## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Am I expecting to much?

I am in an 8 year old marriage to a husband who I have a significant communication problem with and our sex life SUCKS!! If it were up to him we would have sex like never. When we do have sex it is soooo damn boring. Always the same position, quiet, dark etc. One time I put lingerie on, yes one time, and I knew going into it that the odds were it was going to be a disaster. Why? Because my spouse is so prude and hates stuff like that. He can't talk about sex and always refers to it as "doing it". 

I recently decided it is time for a change on so many issues. 
I started with the sex one in my marriage.  

So- I decided I wasn't going to care if he was prude or nervous or hated it. I grabbed a little "contraption" that goes under your bed, lightly cuffed his hands and legs so he couldn't have access to anything  

Then it was on---no doubt he loved it! I broke out Ice, mints, went places that if I ever tried to even joke about he got annoyed with me. There were no objections this night, he loved it and during the time it showed. 

Afterward I tried to engage in some discussion about what he liked, what he didn't etc and it was pointless. He had nothing to say except thanks I enjoyed that. 

As an FYI I had never/we have never brought ice, mints etc into the bedroom. So I tried to ask things like, okay ice yes or no. etc. 

It has been 3 days since and nothing! He hasn't even tried to say anything to talk about it or discuss or anything. He sent me a text message the next day that said Best loving in my life.

So... I equate it like this: if we went to a new restaurant we would discuss whether or not we liked it and would we go back. 

Is it to much to ask that we have some similar discussion with regards to a sex night that was 100% opposite than anything we have ever had in our ENTIRE relationship. 

Thoughts? No offense will be taken just genuinely trying to decide if I should back off or "force" a follow up conversation.... or if I should taken my ice, mints, and bed cuff contraption and have an affair with someone who will show some damn excitement  Semi sarcasm


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

Perhaps there is no need to talk about it. Just keep doing it if the both of you enjoyed it.


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## totamm (May 1, 2012)

Was he more talkative when you first met and early in the marriage or was he always like this?

If he was always like this, well then you had to see the communication problem coming your way and there's very little chance he's ever going to change.

If he became noncommunicative over the years, well then there are some underlying problems here that need to be addressed or they will undoubtedly get worse.


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## xanadu96 (Oct 12, 2012)

This sounds alot like my marriage. BORING sex life, non-existant for extended periods of time. Communication issues... My wife is kind of prude and will joke about things, but is very closed minded when it comes to sex. We have sex in only two positions; her on top and her on bottom. No toys or accessories. If I open my mouth about an opinion or feeling about something it usually has a negative consequence (any topic). Sometimes I feel like I am walking on egg shells when it comes to saying anything. Married 5 years, toghether for 9, with a 2 year old. I love my wife, but do not know if I "LOVE"{ my wife. So many issues and the sex life is boring.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Am I expecting to much?
> 
> I am in an 8 year old marriage to a husband who I have a significant communication problem with and our sex life SUCKS!! If it were up to him we would have sex like never. When we do have sex it is soooo damn boring. Always the same position, quiet, dark etc. One time I put lingerie on, yes one time, and I knew going into it that the odds were it was going to be a disaster. Why? Because my spouse is so prude and hates stuff like that. He can't talk about sex and always refers to it as "doing it".
> 
> ...



Your situation sounds very similar with my wife and I.

I am the one who talks about sex and what I like and what would my wife like, etc. She doesn't say much.

I would do the crazy stuff and she would be vanilla sex.

Sounds like you have a HD and he has a LD. I have a HD and my wife has a LD.

My thinking is when you get married, you take care of your other half's needs and not just what you want or are comfortable with. It's supposed to be 50 / 50, not their way or pretty much nothing in the end.

He may just be a LD guy that doesn't talk much about sex.

Ice, mints, going places you normally wouldn't go? Wow, wish my wife did that.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Your H may have a lot of shame and guilt associated with sex. Did he come from an upbringing where sex, nudity, all that stuff, was kept behind closed doors and not talked about?

Or perhaps he was a late bloomer? Has he had other sex partners besides yourself?

Shame or not, your H is for whatever reason uncomfortable with the topic of sex, though apparently not sex itself 

The trick here is breaking him out of the shell and bringing him to understand that sex is one of the coolest, most intimate ways that two people can bond. You have to let him build a lot of trust in you, and try not to make too big a deal about it when he acts prudish cuz then you're just shaming him more.


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

He sounds like he's submissive. Maybe next time you have him tied up tell him he has to promise to talk about it the next day or you won't do whatever he really likes. Make a game out of it. 
My h is the same way in terms of not reay wanting to talk about it that much. I think for some people once it's done, it's done until next time. 
He might feel embarrassed that he likes being dominated because men are "supposed" to be the leader. I would take it slow and just be glad that he didn't start screaming when you tied him up and that he enjoyed it.
He sounds like he was probably raised Catholic. Just give him time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

Keep doing what you are doing, experiment. Dont worry too much about whether he likes it or not yet. He may not even really know what he wants or likes if he has been so closed sexually. He obviously did like it and told you so in his text to you so dont push him to talk about specifics. Assume he liked all of it. You will learn what he likes as you go. If he finds something truly objectionable I am sure he will speak up in the moment. Have fun...he definately picked the right woman for him! Sex was a good place to start, as you slowly open him up to this I'm sure you will able to do the same in other aspects of you relationship.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> Your H may have a lot of shame and guilt associated with sex. Did he come from an upbringing where sex, nudity, all that stuff, was kept behind closed doors and not talked about?
> 
> Or perhaps he was a late bloomer? Has he had other sex partners besides yourself?
> 
> ...


Great Post.

I agree. He likely has shame issues/disgust issues etc.

There was probably some "sense of relief" felt when you "completely took charge"....it allowed him to disassociate from some of the guilty feelings associated with his own "lust".

Anyway, seems like a huge step in the right direction. His text to you is HUGE step in the right direction. He acknowledged the experience in a positive fashion the day after (and texting was no doubt far easier than direct face to face)

You need to have PATIENCE

Continue doing what your doing. Progress over time. 

Don't push him aggressively to talk to you. I mean, you've been in this marriage for almost a decade already...why push so adamantly after this positive step

By and by, as you do press him to discuss with you...do it gently...a request/desire....not a demand...

Something like:

"it would mean a lot to me...if you could open yourself up to me...and talk about our sex life"

or

"it hurts that you don't ever want to talk about this"


But then let it go....don't harp on...don't nag...

let the guilt a gentle request do the work for you...it very well might eventually...but you need to let him feel in control of that happening


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

IndiaInk said:


> Great Post.
> 
> I agree. He likely has shame issues/disgust issues etc.
> 
> ...


Yep :iagree:


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Wow great feedback. First, I am not his first partner and while I have tried while dating and married to get some comprehension of his past he's always been mute about it. So the little bit I do know is he didnt start having sex until 17-18 and has seemingly always had it in a bed. I brought the idea of toys up once and he just about vomitted getting agitated. If during the course of our intimacy before I put my hands anywhere near his ass he would immediately tell me to get the hell away. I've broached the subject of different things and it has been a bad idea. The first time we ever had sex I used some verbal words and he literally lost his "drive" and our sex session was over. Next time I didn't say a word. The sex is great but boring. For our honeymoon I took a gamble and brought in lingerie and again was disappointed. It's been 8 long years since then and I was too afraid of the same rejections. I just decided screw it. I sort of didnt give him the option of saying no. I said you will  let me tie you up. I continually asked if he was okay etc. when I told him about my plan of tieing him up he said something to the nature of oh no how could I not enjoy this. So that helped a bit bit he had no idea the other plans involved. By the end of that night he let my hands venture south and seemed to really enjoy it as he didnt tell me to get the hell out. He made the comment the first time I went there of wow that's the first time in my life I have let anyone near there. I didn't go in just on . It's one of the things i would like to talk about--- I don't really want that nervous factor of is it ok or is it not. 
Last night he did make a comment to me about how he can't wait until we get home (out of town this weekend) I said why and he said so I can tie you up. But that's it. Then silence. It's a start though. 
I will take your suggestions. You gave some reassurance and reminded me to just be patient and not such a girl


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Just do what you want to do, and be the way you want to be.

If you want to talk about it, talk about it. The only suggestion I have is to be sure you are being positive, happy, and playful when you talk about it. Try not to make it a heavy or frustrated discussion.

You know what I do with my dogs is make them choose which toy we're going to rumble with. I hold one toy in each hand and make them choose. There is no third choice, and there is no choice of no toy. Try that with your hubby. "Do you want X or do you want Y?" If he doesn't give a straight answer either tell him he has to choose or impose a (sexy) consequence. Ok, he won't choose so now he has to xyz on you. Be graphic on saying the xyz. Then next week tell him in advance that you expect him to come up with 2 surprise alternatives for you to choose from. Make him be explicit when he offers you those alternatives.

If he's just shy (feeling shame) you can bring him out with openness and gradual desensitization. Next time he won't be so shocked by what you did this time.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Ha I love that analogy and idea!!! Should be fun too


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Today I sent my hubby a random text, asking if it turned him on when I sucked on my own tits during sex. 

*I was hoping to engage in some discussion about what he does like because I don't know, he doesn't talk about it* I also thought it would be fun to have a little flirty text and if I initiated it, maybe he'd be game. 

This was his response: 
Not particularly...but if i cant get to them and you want them sucked on.. by god suck away. AND are you frigging serious right now. 
END RESPONSE

Refer back to my original statement of when I do say something sexy erotic he asks me if I have been drinking or what drugs i am on lol. 

Grrrr. what I would give to have a fun steamy sexy little text/email exchange for just a minute...

At least I was not asked what drugs i was on or if I had been drinking, I suppose that's progress, *sigh*


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Today I sent my hubby a random text, asking if it turned him on when I sucked on my own tits during sex.
> 
> *I was hoping to engage in some discussion about what he does like because I don't know, he doesn't talk about it* I also thought it would be fun to have a little flirty text and if I initiated it, maybe he'd be game.
> 
> ...


I know this seems very tame to you, but this is probably a bit much for him. 

And some people just aren't much into sexting, or even if they are, they go through busy periods where they can't.


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## Hortensia (Feb 1, 2013)

Even if he doesn't say much, listen to his "body talk". How his body responds to what you're doing to him. Does a certain thing makes him harder, throbbing, does he moan while you do it, does he shiver, does he smile or have a "Oh Yes !" expression on his face...there are many non-verbal ways you can determine if he is enjoying or not.
Since he told he did enjoy what you did, you should do it more often. I use to bring all kind of flavors into the bedroom: mayonaise , chocolate syrup, whipped cream, champagne, (to pour and lick off each other ), he likes sushi and I read somewhere about Nyiotaimori ( eating sushi off a naked woman ), did that too, was surprised lol, filled the bathtube with milk and played in it, etc...
If he eacts positively about one thing, you just expand it, do something similar but differently...then something similar to the last thing..see where it leads you. Spicy sex life to you !


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> I know this seems very tame to you, but this is probably a bit much for him.
> 
> And some people just aren't much into sexting, or even if they are, they go through busy periods where they can't.


I know I know  it's just so hard because I am literally living in silence over here meanwhile I just want to jump his bones when he walks in the door. I walk around constantly drooling over dudes and thinking about picking everyone up  

Meanwhile, my hubby is fine with no sex!

At least engage in conversation for me a bit. LOL :scratchhead:


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Hortensia said:


> Even if he doesn't say much, listen to his "body talk". How his body responds to what you're doing to him. Does a certain thing makes him harder, throbbing, does he moan while you do it, does he shiver, does he smile or have a "Oh Yes !" expression on his face...there are many non-verbal ways you can determine if he is enjoying or not.
> Since he told he did enjoy what you did, you should do it more often. I use to bring all kind of flavors into the bedroom: mayonaise , chocolate syrup, whipped cream, champagne, (to pour and lick off each other ), he likes sushi and I read somewhere about Nyiotaimori ( eating sushi off a naked woman ), did that too, was surprised lol, filled the bathtube with milk and played in it, etc...
> If he eacts positively about one thing, you just expand it, do something similar but differently...then something similar to the last thing..see where it leads you. Spicy sex life to you !


Yes his body language was saying he liked it. I would just LOVE a little more aggression a little more of something that said I must have you right now. One can dream I suppose. 
HOLY flavors... :smthumbup: awesome! We have NEVER brought anything in like that. Want to but it would be such an awkward thing given his hang up with this whole thing we call sex. 

OMG I could see his face now if he came home to a tub filled with milk... lol seriously!!! He would crap himself with nervousness and wonder what drugs I had been doing for real!! 

Meanwhile I am like hell ya let's do it! Whats the worse that happens we cry laughing at what a horrible idea that was


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Yes his body language was saying he liked it. I would just LOVE a little more aggression a little more of something that said I must have you right now. One can dream I suppose.
> HOLY flavors... :smthumbup: awesome! We have NEVER brought anything in like that. Want to but it would be such an awkward thing given his hang up with this whole thing we call sex.
> 
> OMG I could see his face now if he came home to a tub filled with milk... lol seriously!!! He would crap himself with nervousness and wonder what drugs I had been doing for real!!
> ...


The trick is getting your H to have the same light-hearted attitude you have toward sex.

Try to reassure him that there's nothing weird, wrong, or taboo between a consenting married couple. It's just sex, and it's supposed to be fun.

Could you maybe explain a little bit about his past and/or upbringing? I feel like we might could give better advice if we had more insight into his past. People with strong aversions to outward talk of sex usually have some weird childhood issues, like an incredibly strict religious upbringing or parents who shamed sexuality in general.


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

You are certainly not the only one out there with a husband that clams up the minute you say SEX. I am in a 19 year relationship with my husband...and only just in the last year or so has he finally started to open up at all. And it's often rocky still.

Here is a thread from one of my questions, very similiar to your own...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/64263-botched-sexual-exploits.html

One of the things that finally got my husband talking was that he works out of town, and finally started using Yahoo to instant message one another. One night, I was trying to get him to open up about what he likes sexually...which I had tried time and time again. So instead of asking him the question...I told him to send me links to porn that he liked. I knew he probably had clips on his computer. He shared a few with me, and I was surprised by some of it. He let me ask him questions about why he liked certain clips and what it was about them. He actually answered...I was blown away. 

The computer chatting works so well, that we do this even when he is home now. He will be in one room, and me in the another. He finds he can open up a bit more when he doesn't have to say things that he likes out loud, he can type them instead. We send each other links for things we like, whether it's toys or potential sex furniture or video clips.

Will that work for you? Maybe not...but my point to you is, don't give up. Just keep rewording things, work on your communication with him, work on providing new experiences... hopefully you will be able to get through to him. 

You are not alone in this...and you are not abnormal for wanting this kind of relationship with your husband.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Good idea. Okay he was raised with both his parents. Traditional couple in that mom stopped working when she had him, the oldest, and stayed home. His dad worked at the same job his entire life until retirement. When his mom did go back to work she worked as the lunch lady at school. He has one brother no sisters. FYI his brother is not like this. My sil and I have talked and he is not like this. She can't believe things I tell her because her husband is so opposite. In fact around a camp fire one night my sil and I started talking about toys and my husband and bil walked up. We said something to them about what we were talking about. My hubby made a snide comment turned around and walked away. My bil said hell ya and sat down. My hubby was super straight laced we as a child- didnt try alcohol till college. Never tried drugs or smoking. His brother was the partier who snuck out all the time. My hubby has from what I can gather always been in relationships with women who are the "dominating one" although it appears that in bed they were just as prude as he. He has never done it in a public place, never had phone sex ever! And has never exchanged nude pics ever!! I send him nude ones all the time with no response. I will say that not too terribly long ago I got busted texted flirty things to a guy back and forth. No destiny just flirty semi dirty. My hubby was pissed and confronted me saying I wish you would do that with me. I had to point out that I've tried and it just doesn't work when it is not reciprocated. I have not texted the guy since. It was no affair. Literally someone I have known for 12 years and just had some innocent yet inappropriate flirty texting with. I have since tried to text my hubby like that and gotten the same response nothing!! I have gently reminded him remember when you said you wanted me to text you like that etc and be has nothing to say. As for his parents they didnt talk about sex and they aren't religious. So I don't know what in the hell. I'm not looking for hard core stuff just some playing flirtation romance with my husband because right now I'm walking around horny all the time.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> I will say that not too terribly long ago I got busted texted flirty things to a guy back and forth. No destiny just flirty semi dirty. My hubby was pissed and confronted me saying I wish you would do that with me. I had to point out that I've tried and it just doesn't work when it is not reciprocated. I have not texted the guy since. It was no affair.


Whoa whoa whoa. This throws a huge wrench into the whole thing.

So you were dirty texting with another man and you "got busted"? You realize that that can be very damaging to a relationship, correct?

Only semi-dirty, friend you knew for 12 years, no long-term plans with this guy, you realize none of that matters, right? You realize that in the eyes of your H, he probably sees you as having cheated, right?

Reframe it this way: If you were your H, and you already had problems talking about sex, then you find out your W is dirty texting with another man, would that make you want to be more or less sexual with her? Would you trust her more or less?

Would you tolerate that kind of behavior from your H?

Methinks there's more to these issues than you're letting on...


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## Inside_Looking_Out (Apr 8, 2012)

Its sounds like you have flirted with the idea of taking your sexuality elsewhere...since you commented about that in your original post, and now mentioned the person you were texting.

No judgements...I have to admit, I toyed with that idea when I was getting attention from every man other than my husband. That is, until he did the same, and actually started an EA. I was enraged, how could he give all that to someone else, when I was right there jumping up and down asking for it?!

I think you are at a serious teetering point. You may need to really lay down some very blunt language with your husband. Tell him this is a deal buster for you...that you require more intimacy and sharing in your relationship...that you are worried you will start to respond to people that will give you that attention. 

I wish my husband had stated his needs (they were not sexual, but emotional needs) to me, instead of looking for them somewhere else. If he had laid it on the line, I may have straightened up and seen the light before he started having an affair with someone else. And if I had been more clear with what I needed from him, instead of toying around with asking and begging...maybe he would have felt closer.

That was the situation with us...maybe it doesn't apply at all to your's....but it's starting to sound eerily similar.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Where to start. Here is the thing. These issues existed long before I flirted in a text. It was one day he busted me the same day. Lol. But before this happened I did realize I was in a vulnerable bad place. So I went to my husband, sat him down and very really and truthfully told him my frustrations and needs etc. I told him plainly and clearly that I was in need and I had reached a point where I was afraid I was capable of having an affair. I explained I was worried someone might catch me and we'll the rest would be history. My hubby said nothing, did nothing, changed nothing. I exaggerate not! He didn't ask me anything literally just gave me a blank dumb stare. I waited a few weeks and told him again and was met with the same nothing. So about 4 months later I engaged in a day of about 12 texts of flirtiness. I have not had an affair but do feel desperate that its the only place I'm going to get some affection. I won't actually step out though. I will leave before I do!


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

And now I'm here.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

so you told your H that if he didn’t open up to you sexually that you might end up having an affair. And then you intentionally began texting with another man with the thought that he would be a sexual outlet of some kind for you. 

I understand this has been difficult for you, but surely you see that you're not fostering an environment of trust here. Threatening to have an affair is not a way to get anyone to open up about anything. His behavior may have been the same before your little "slip up" (which you don't seem to regret), but it certainly hurt far more than it helped.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

No my talk with my hubby was not just about sexuality. It was the roommate behavior in general. I literally live in silence. He doesn't talk to me unless he is talked to. I am like a single parent yet married so I must act married but have no benefits of being married. He makes promises to me ie date night but then doesn't follow through. He always has nothing to say. He doesn't try and hasn't for 8 years. I am always willing to open up and talk to him but he no. 
I didnt tell him the afair thing as an ultimatum. I was genuinely trying to rxpress my fear and desperation to him. 
As to regret for the text: I have a hard time. I see his anger that day but it was no sex talk, no pictures. Etc. It literally was my friend telling me that he decided to go to nursing school and me saying mmmm hot nursing uniforms. Which I then followed up with you will make a good nurse congrats and go get em. 
He then reminded me of the time I had to wear nursing scrubs (I'm not a nurse) and that yep nursing scrubs are hot. I said awe thanks remember when we went skinny dipping. That was fun times. Him: we should've brought the scrubs along wink Wink 
End of texts. 
Where I grew up this was a common thing. Skinny dipping that is 
So yes I get that it was not ok. But I also am not sure on a lot of other things including that I definitely don't view that as cheating and honestly know that's take compared to conversations dudes have together when they see a hot chick or talk about the past and well this dude is my "girl" he's been my person for 12 years. He is- strike that used to be- my person. Haven't talked to him since out of respect for my husband and our relationship. So yes I do take it seriously and get that it is my hubby's opinion a line was crossed and I deleted the contact.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> No my talk with my hubby was not just about sexuality. It was the roommate behavior in general. I literally live in silence. He doesn't talk to me unless he is talked to. I am like a single parent yet married so I must act married but have no benefits of being married. He makes promises to me ie date night but then doesn't follow through. He always has nothing to say. He doesn't try and hasn't for 8 years. I am always willing to open up and talk to him but he no.
> I didnt tell him the afair thing as an ultimatum. I was genuinely trying to rxpress my fear and desperation to him.
> As to regret for the text: I have a hard time. I see his anger that day but it was no sex talk, no pictures. Etc. It literally was my friend telling me that he decided to go to nursing school and me saying mmmm hot nursing uniforms. Which I then followed up with you will make a good nurse congrats and go get em.
> He then reminded me of the time I had to wear nursing scrubs (I'm not a nurse) and that yep nursing scrubs are hot. I said awe thanks remember when we went skinny dipping. That was fun times. Him: we should've brought the scrubs along wink Wink
> ...


I understand that you were speaking to your H from a place of hurt and desperation, but no matter how you may have framed it, I wonder if he didn't take your fear of having an affair as a veiled threat. You were trying to send a "wake-up call", but I don't think that using the possibility of an affair to that end was very helpful. It comes across as underhanded an manipulative, regardless of your intentions.

As for the text exchange, whether you want to admit it or not, it was highly inappropriate for a married person. It was covert sexual flirting, even if you didn't mean it, and even worse because it was with a guy that has seen you naked. I understand all your rationale behind thinking that it was innocent, but I don't know anyone that wouldn't feel incredibly hurt to catch their spouse having that kind of interaction with someone else. 

I think it's great that you no longer have contact with him. 
However, your attitude suggests you're obeying the letter of the law but not the spirit. Your H got really angry about it. Sometimes when men get really angry, it's to hide how badly our feelings have been hurt. I bet your H was really hurt by the text exchange. If you show him the same lack of regret that you do on this thread, then he's probably even more hurt because you don't seem sorry, and he likely wonders when you're going to do it again.

Is that the only time he's caught you being flirty/sexual with someone else? Would you say that you're normally a very flirty, sexual person? While it may all be innocent to you, some men have a hard time being in relationships with those kind of women and end up becoming very resentful.

Your H sounds like he has a lot of resentment built up, and it sounds like you do, too. To me, these problems go much deeper than sex. Have you considered marriage counseling?


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Yes you are definitely right our issues are much deeper than sex. We have gone to counseling and the counselor pretty much fired us lol. Literally he told me that he would be happy to keep seeing me for individual counseling but that I was wasting my time in couples counseling because my husband was not participating. So we stopped going. I have continued to go to individual counseling....but it is only bringing more resentment from my end.

I am so frustrated because it takes two to have a marriage. I am having to live like a married woman but no benefits of that "married" status. No date nights, no sex, no flirting, no romance, no communication. We are roommates with some random "sex" every few and far between day.

I understand your point, I do, and while it may seem as though I am not sorrowful I am. I just don't know what else to do. Something as simple as hug and kiss me good night doesn't happen and this has been for 7+ years. 90% of the time he goes to bed like roommates do, not like a husband/wife should. Meaning no hug, no kiss, no cuddling etc. 

I could potentially deal with the other issues a bit better if I were at least sexually satisified, maybe I am wrong, but I feel like at least give me that. I will call my girlfriends for a good conversation but I can't call someone for sexual gratification. 

I mean, for 8 years I have been living with a roommate.... who has admitted he knows I am fighting for us and he appreciates it etc but he doesn't take any steps to meet me to do it together. 

I don't suspect cheating and genuinely believe he loves me but it does go back to a question you asked yesterday: his upbringing. his parents are this way. They have no affection, they poke fun at each other all the time, they have what I have always viewed as an odd but stable relationship. Married 50+ years! A few years ago his dad had to go to hospital and needed an emergency surgery. He had surgery that morning and that night his wife was at her normal bingo night. I found it odd that her husband was recuperating from surgery and she was at bingo. BUT I recognize that is their relationship, that is them! 

My husband is the same way and his brother while not as bad as my hubby is very similar. 

So... what..as a male/person/husband etc do you suggest a wife to do in this scenario?
I have tried giving him space, giving him time, writing letters, speaking to him, planning time away, date nights, weekends away etc but we end up in silence!


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Yes you are definitely right our issues are much deeper than sex. We have gone to counseling and the counselor pretty much fired us lol. Literally he told me that he would be happy to keep seeing me for individual counseling but that I was wasting my time in couples counseling because my husband was not participating. So we stopped going. I have continued to go to individual counseling....but it is only bringing more resentment from my end.
> 
> I am so frustrated because it takes two to have a marriage. I am having to live like a married woman but no benefits of that "married" status. No date nights, no sex, no flirting, no romance, no communication. We are roommates with some random "sex" every few and far between day.
> 
> ...


(apologies for the following wall of text)

Did your H ever do any of the things that you want, even while dating?

Oftentimes in our marriage we act the ways we saw our parents act. It's usually completely subconcsious because we grew up thinking that our parents' marriage was "normal", so we think that's how married couples are supposed to act.

You obviously see that in your H. What makes it incredibly difficult is that he likely subconsciously views his parents' marriage as the way marriages are supposed to be conducted. This means that if you try changing his viewpoints, you're messing with fundamental beliefs that he's held for most of his life. You said yourself his parents have been together for 50 years, so he'll likely wonder why he should change his core beliefs when most of his life was spent watching that kind of marriage work.

All that together means that you two have some distinct and fundamental differences in how you think spouses should behave in their marriages.

I can understand your frustration, but after framing it as fundamental differences in core beliefs, have you ever stopped to wonder how your H feels in all this? It's an honest question, I'm not trying to paint either of you as the bad guy. But if his fundamental, core belief is likely that his parents' marriage is how they should work, have you stopped to think that the ideas you're pushing on him may not only make him uncomfortable, but may even run counter to how he thinks marriage should work?

None of that solves your problem, however, but it is something you should think about.

When marriage's status quo becomes unsatisfactory to the point you're at, then the next step (assuming you want to remain in the marriage) is to destabilize the marriage.

As you've noticed, you're the one who's primarily unhappy. Core beliefs aside, your H is probably satisfied. Therefore, he has no reason to change. Why change a good thing for him?

Destabilizing the marriage involves you intentionally not meeting his needs. Sounds mean and counterintuitive, but withdrawing from your H will (hopefully) stop him from taking your for granted. 

Sometimes we give and give while our spouse never gives back. We give harder, hoping that our spouse will wake up one day and realize how great they have it. This is a logical fallacy. If we're giving and giving irrespective of the effort our spouse puts into the marriage, then what motivation do they have to change? That's the basis of the so-called "180", and you should research it on these forums.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

And now you have hit the nail on the head! Yes yes yes this is what is happening!

The counselor asked him what he needs from his wife-he said nothing. I have asked him what can I do for you? What do you need from me? NOTHING he says. 

While I like that answer it is a disconnected answer, everyone always needs something, no matter how minor or big. Even some answer like: to stop kicking me in the back in her sleep, or to stop using so much damn toilet paper, something.... but he for 8+ years has said nothing. I need nothing, I am missing nothing. 

He only verbalizes to me that he doesn't know why he is so lazy and he doesn't mean it intentionally but he also knows he doesn't put forth the effort to change it. He also knows that he doesn't follow through with his words so I have stopped listening/believing in his words. 

You are right he views his parents as normal. I am from a very dysfunctional household but I know it and well I am just working based off stuff I know/have seen/read etc. I don't have a "foundation" so to say to work on .

I think you make a great point: withdrawing from him etc. I will research the 180* thing.... never heard of that. 

Any suggestions on what sort of things to do to withdraw?


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

It's scary in a way but I see a little of myself in how you describe your husband. I too grew up in a home with no affection. I can not recall ever seeing my parents kiss or hug. They're still together but to be honest I think they would have been better off splitting up long ago. They do nothing but snipe at and bicker with one another all the time to the point I avoid visiting for any length of time. 

I'm not going to blame them as I choose my own path in life but I am also not good at affection. PDA's make me incredibly uncomfortable. Unless I make a conscious effort I tend to neglect even private display's of affection. I am loathe to admit I require anything from my partner largely for fear that will make me appear weak. 

The one difference for me is I am much more sexual. I enjoy talking about it always sought as much as I could from my partner.

For me what the lack of affirmation of my love for my wife understandably resulted in a divorce. The shock of that made me do a lot on introspection. I will not claim to be good at it but I am a little better now. That and hooking up with a woman who is more assertive about her needs has improved the situation for me. 

My fear should you choose to withdraw from your husband is that he essentially will not notice. He's apparently uncomfortable with affection thus you withdrawing will actually be a relief to him. When your resentment grows to the point you do something drastic as crazy as it may seem he will feel blindsided.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

"Withdraw" was the incorrect term. Allow me to rephrase. Instead of bending over backwards to constantly meet his needs when he has no consideration for your own, start concentrating on yourself and your own needs.

Only you know your relationship well enough to know exactly what that means. But start with the 180.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm trying not to be disappointed or frustrated. Like my thread started with. My h and I have very plain vanilla sex all the time and rarely even have sex. Recently out of no where without discussing it I bought some under the bed tie up contraction and a blindfold and used it on him. It was phenomenal sex!!! 
I have been patiently waiting for the returned favor. I do not want to have to ask, beg, plead etc as that will take some of the fun out of it for me. 
Last weekend we were out of town and my h says I can't wait to get home on Sunday. I ask why and he says so I can tie you up! I was instantly wet and ready. **** lets go home now  needless to say its been 6 days since returning home and well he has not brought it up or mentioned it since. 
On Monday I did say something to let him know that he basically got my hopes up and then nothing but now still nothing. 

While I do want the gesture returned -- and would be extremely turned on by it---- by biggest annoyance is the saying something that gets my hopes and hormones up and then failing to even try to go through with it and failing to say anything to me about it. 

I mean don't tell me you can't wait to get home to tie me up and then don't because clearly you will lying and leading me on. My idea of cant wait is tieing my ass up as soon as we walk through the door!!! 

So now I'm sitting here super frustrated and disappointed and not sure whether I say something, or let him watch me remove these items from our room cut them up and when he asks why tell him they have been taunting me for a week and clearly he has no intent of using them so I'm taking the stimulation away from my eyes and thoughts etc


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> I'm trying not to be disappointed or frustrated. Like my thread started with. My h and I have very plain vanilla sex all the time and rarely even have sex. Recently out of no where without discussing it I bought some under the bed tie up contraction and a blindfold and used it on him. It was phenomenal sex!!!
> I have been patiently waiting for the returned favor. I do not want to have to ask, beg, plead etc as that will take some of the fun out of it for me.
> Last weekend we were out of town and my h says I can't wait to get home on Sunday. I ask why and he says so I can tie you up! I was instantly wet and ready. **** lets go home now  needless to say its been 6 days since returning home and well he has not brought it up or mentioned it since.
> On Monday I did say something to let him know that he basically got my hopes up and then nothing but now still nothing.
> ...


Doing something for someone with the unspoken thought in your mind that the favor will be returned is called a covert contract. They do not work and lead to a lot of resentment and passive aggressive behavior in relationships.

By performing a sex act for your husband and then expecting him to do the same to you without you saying anything to him, you have created a covert contract that you expect him to fulfill without his knowing that an agreement was ever in place. You are seeing now that these only lead to frustration.

Instead of covert contracts, you need to be more direct with your H. Tell him, "I would like for you to tie me up." Hell, give him step by step directions if you have to. That may not be nearly as spontaneous and fun for you now, but surely you see that your H is not nearly as far along this path as you are. You can't expect him to out of the blue have a working knowledge of light domination.

If you help him down the path, then he may start to pick up things on his own, but he can't read your mind.

Also, you should consider that he may like being the sub. Make a deal with him that you two will trade off being dom/sub and see if that doesn't help.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

MaritimeGuy said:


> It's scary in a way but I see a little of myself in how you describe your husband. I too grew up in a home with no affection. I can not recall ever seeing my parents kiss or hug. They're still together but to be honest I think they would have been better off splitting up long ago. They do nothing but snipe at and bicker with one another all the time to the point I avoid visiting for any length of time.
> 
> I'm not going to blame them as I choose my own path in life but I am also not good at affection. PDA's make me incredibly uncomfortable. Unless I make a conscious effort I tend to neglect even private display's of affection. I am loathe to admit I require anything from my partner largely for fear that will make me appear weak.
> 
> ...


You are right sounds a lot like here. I do agree and know from experience that he is oblivious and me withdrawaling will get no reaction but was thinking if I did a different form of withdraw. If that makes sense


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> Doing something for someone with the unspoken thought in your mind that the favor will be returned is called a covert contract. They do not work and lead to a lot of resentment and passive aggressive behavior in relationships.
> 
> By performing a sex act for your husband and then expecting him to do the same to you without you saying anything to him, you have created a covert contract that you expect him to fulfill without his knowing that an agreement was ever in place. You are seeing now that these only lead to frustration.
> 
> ...


Well that's my point. I didnt have that expectation but when he said that I was all game for it. Now it feels like it was just a joke at my expense. I did it for him because I wanted to not because I hoped he'd return it-- I wouldn't refuse but wasn't expecting. It wasn't until he said it that I have been hopelessly excitingly waiting. It would be like me texting or telling you when you get home from work I'm going to give you the best head ever just wait. So then all day your anxiously waiting to get home and nothing. Then each day ticks by and nothing again. Over and over. That's my frustration why get my hopes up if you don't intend on following through


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Is there anything any of us have mentioned here that sounds like it might work and/or help in your situation?

I feel like we're not really giving you much good advice that you think might be workable in your situation.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Yea it's just hard to convey via text type conversations. I have done what has been suggested and am trying to be clear about what I have and haven't done. Would you not be frustrated as well? Or would you just be fine. That's what it's coming down to


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Yea it's just hard to convey via text type conversations. I have done what has been suggested and am trying to be clear about what I have and haven't done. Would you not be frustrated as well? Or would you just be fine. That's what it's coming down to


I'm not judging at all. I was in your shoes at one time. The first year and a half of my marriage the sex sucked. The only thing that got us over the hump (pun intended) was by becoming more emotionally intimate, i.e. working through all of our relationship issues. Only then did we feel safe enough in the bedroom to start really exploring our fantasies and sexuality.

It sounds like you've already tried those things like counseling, working through your issues, and being blunt with him. I'm not really sure what else there is to do except try and destabilize your marriage by not working so hard to meet his needs.


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## tracyishere (Dec 2, 2012)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Well that's my point. I didnt have that expectation but when he said that I was all game for it. Now it feels like it was just a joke at my expense. I did it for him because I wanted to not because I hoped he'd return it-- I wouldn't refuse but wasn't expecting. It wasn't until he said it that I have been hopelessly excitingly waiting. It would be like me texting or telling you when you get home from work I'm going to give you the best head ever just wait. So then all day your anxiously waiting to get home and nothing. Then each day ticks by and nothing again. Over and over. That's my frustration why get my hopes up if you don't intend on following through



You say this and yet you also say you have been waiting patiently for him to return the favor. What I don't understand here is that you really enjoyed your sex when you had it and yet you are the one denying it for yourself. Do it again...why not?


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Thanks. I have tried some of that destabilization idea type stuff but he just doesn't give a ****. I think the only thing that will really catch his attention is my moving out. Otherwise he is glad when I don't force conversation. It's just a lonely and sexually frustrating place to be. Then when he does things that gets your hopes up and he lets you down.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think there are a couple of possible paths here for you.

First, I think you should tell him essentially what you wrote in your post #34 above. You are frustrated and tried to be patient. Then he led you and got your hopes up, but failed to follow through. So you are feeling hurt and rejected, as well as not having your needs met. 

You should have that discussion at a time when there are no distractions including tv or kids or having to go to work soon. Do it in a calm business like way. Try to avoid being emotional or accusatory. Just tell him how when he did X you felt Y. Do it in a neutral place, not the bedroom. Keep the conversation short and don't take the bait to get pulled into a big debate, drama, or argument.

Then walk away and do something for yourself. Have a cup of coffee in your quiet spot. Go play at a store related to an interest of yours. Take the dog for a long walk. Whatever, just don't hang around him.

As part of the discussion aspect, I think you should be sure to avoid the covert contracts and the passive aggressive behaviors. For example don't be vague about your expectations, and don't expect anything you don't specify to him. Do be specific. I think you could state that you want to go to some form of couples sex therapy or try a couples intimacy getaway. Or you could say that you want to set up cooperatively with him a plan of action. Maybe schedule sex 2x per week. Or have the 3 or 4 day window where first you must initiate during the next 3 or 4 days, and then it is his turn.

So you tell him straight what is bothering you. Then you request he participate in putting some kind of action in place to fix the problem.

The other suggestion is to make him feel a little bit uncomfortable and uncertain. Now this is playing with fire somewhat and you have to be really careful. I will tell you I did a 180 on my wife in 2006 and she decided she would just check out of the marriage in response. But I think there is value in trying a mild 180. Increase your feminine rank (sort of the same as male sex rank people talk about).

Improve your wardrobe a bit. Buy a slightly sexier night wear. Get your hair done a little bit differently, a little more modern or maybe a slightly younger look. Not drastic, just a bit different. If you slum around in sweats or jeans and t-shirts, start wearing slightly nicer clothes even just bumming around on the weekend.

What you're doing is conveying that you are attractive to people and care how you look to other people (other than him).

If you have a girl friend you could do some things with her away from your husband. Basically, establish your own life and identity away from him. Take up a hobby or restart an old hobby you've stopped doing.

Eat a little healthier. Cut out the sodas and junk food. Work out some if you don't already. Believe me he will notice! You don't have to lose any significant weight or put on muscle, he will notice your efforts.

What you're trying to do is just barely tickle his jealousy and insecurities. He has to feel he is slipping behind you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Thanks. I have tried some of that destabilization idea type stuff but he just doesn't give a ****. I think the only thing that will really catch his attention is my moving out. Otherwise he is glad when I don't force conversation. It's just a lonely and sexually frustrating place to be. Then when he does things that gets your hopes up and he lets you down.


I saw you posted this while I was typing.

You know one very direct destabilization method is to just tell him point blank that you are a sexual being. You want and expect good frequent sex. You prefer it be with him and within this marriage.

Then stfu and walk away. You just put him on notice that there is a clear boundary where you will not accept a sexless life. If this doesn't scare him nothing will.

But you have to be ready to walk if he doesn't respond.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

^ That's what I've been trying and failing to say


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## Cobre (Feb 24, 2013)

This is something similar to what my wife has experienced with me, she is more advanced sexually and more accretive when it comes to sex, I grew up in a house hold where I was taught to respect women but I think a little too much…my wife has had to initiate sex mostly throughout our marriage cause I have a mental block and think if I’m not told or reminded I would be doing something wrong and would offend her and it mostly ends up with me being guilt ridden and both of us sexually frustrated.…good luck and hope you work through this.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

tracyishere said:


> You say this and yet you also say you have been waiting patiently for him to return the favor. What I don't understand here is that you really enjoyed your sex when you had it and yet you are the one denying it for yourself. Do it again...why not?


I did enjoy myself lots  I am just tired of being the only one doing things. It is not flattering, fun, attractive etc to constantly hold the weight of everything on your shoulders. I want a mutually beneficial relationship.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Thor said:


> I saw you posted this while I was typing.
> 
> You know one very direct destabilization method is to just tell him point blank that you are a sexual being. You want and expect good frequent sex. You prefer it be with him and within this marriage.
> 
> ...


So I have to say I thought there was a bit of a break through this weekend. I wrote h a letter about sex and intimacy and when he got home he made a comment about how long it was. I gave him a few hours to say something about it and he didn't. I needed to go shopping so on my way out I said: I am leaving. I won't be gone terribly long but long enough. I expect that by the time I have returned I have received a response to my email. Enough said. 

He did as ordered and I was grateful for the effort he out forth in his response. When I got home I said to him I want to make this very clear. I am not frustrated that you haven't reciprocated the great sex. I'm frustrated that you lead me on, you got my hopes uo and let me down. Not once but several times. That night I went drinking with my girl friends. On my way out h says when you get home I am going to be waiting to make good on that tie you up. So again I go out. I have a great time. Get my drink on. Get home at 2:30 am. Crawl into bed and about five minutes later he says ok I wasn't being realistic when I said that earlier I didn't take into account you wouldn't be home until 2:30, ill make it up to you tonight. While I was disappointed I was victorious as he freaking communicated it to me. 

Later that day I say to him I need to be a priority to you. I need you to make some time for me and us. I--- yes I made a point to have all kids sound asleep by 8pm sharp. 

I crawl into bed naked anxious for the night. Minute by minute clicks by and we are sitting in silence. Finally 10 pm comes and I turn over. He says are you going to bed. Yep I have to get up at 5 am. It is 10 I've been laying here since 8. Good night. 

Disappointment again on so many levels. Not only from a sexually frustrated level stop freaking promising me and getting my hopes up then falling through. But also on an emotional level. Can you just try a little. Put a little effort forward to connect with me. Stop giving me silent treatment. He will talk to me if I start a conversation but even then it is like pulling teeth from a baby. 
And him starting the conversation forget about it. 

I left the house this morning confident in my decision. I went to bed last night and very clearly said if he falls though if he lets me down I am not arguing. Typically the next morning my face is so grim he can tell. This morning I made sure I was "ok". I have decided I will seek out a temporary living arrangement. I have made arrangement to stay at a local extended stay hotel for a week while I look for a furnished studio type place to move on a month to month basis. 

I don't want to lose him. I don't want to be divorced but I am broken living in this one way silent relationship. While he lives carefree and oblivious getting all his needs met when he decides he is ready for them to be met. 

So when he gets home tonight I will be checked in somewhere else. No arguing not yelling not crying. This is very matter of fact.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

As scary as it probably is I think you're doing the right thing. Sometimes in these situations people don't realize how serious their partners are. They get told something but then when they ignore it there are no significant repercussions they learn to disregard it. Moving out will certainly get his attention. Hopefully, it's the wakeup call he needs to start communicating with you and taking your needs seriously.

I would suggest letting him know it's not permanent at this point. That as soon as you feel he is taking you seriously you are prepared to move back in effectively leaving the ball in his court. 

Best of luck!


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

timeforchange2013 said:


> I don't want to lose him. I don't want to be divorced but I am broken living in this one way silent relationship. While he lives carefree and oblivious getting all his needs met when he decides he is ready for them to be met.
> 
> So when he gets home tonight I will be checked in somewhere else. No arguing not yelling not crying. This is very matter of fact.


This may sound crazy, but why not go the opposite direction?

I mention in another post that during my marriage, my sex life became almost non-existent. What do you stand to lose by taking on more final hail-mary approach?

Buy a bunch of toys. Masturbate in bed right next to him.

Also get the timing right, so he walks in the bedroom and there you are, spread eagle, furiously masturbating with a dild0 or something. Get dolled up for it. Let him see what a sexual being you are. Maybe you need to send a spark and ignite a fire?

Rent or buy some porn, when you are in bed together, pop it in the dvd player and caress yourself in front of him .. don't give him anything.. don't touch him. Lay down the "new" rules, that your satisfaction comes first.

Stop being suttle with emails, letters.

Men HATE ultimatums .. that's not going to work. Find what does.

If that stuff doesn't work.. THEN talk about moving out.

Just my opinions.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Kaboom said:


> This may sound crazy, but why not go the opposite direction?
> 
> I mention in another post that during my marriage, my sex life became almost non-existent. What do you stand to lose by taking on more final hail-mary approach?
> 
> ...


Lol while I love this idea I have done something similar. I tried to wake him up in the middle of the night one night "to no avail" so I masturbated next to him and told him the next morning. Although I'm fairly confident he was faking asleep. We went on to not have sex for a week! I have started playing with myself in front of him and he just walks out thinking I am being stupid. I have stayed in the room and finished myself off. 

While not as drastic and flat out out there and in your face as your suggestion I have teetered with it a bit. I'll be honest i think he is so disconnected and so self absorbed with a I don't give a **** attitude that the on,y time he'd care is the once a month he needs sex for his own self.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Lol while I love this idea I have done something similar. I tried to wake him up in the middle of the night one night "to no avail" so I masturbated next to him and told him the next morning. Although I'm fairly confident he was faking asleep. We went on to not have sex for a week! I have started playing with myself in front of him and he just walks out thinking I am being stupid. I have stayed in the room and finished myself off.
> 
> While not as drastic and flat out out there and in your face as your suggestion I have teetered with it a bit. I'll be honest i think he is so disconnected and so self absorbed with a I don't give a **** attitude that the on,y time he'd care is the once a month he needs sex for his own self.


that's great. Take it to the next level. Dress up, totally slvt out with some lingerie.. use an arsenal of toys. Wake the guy up! Not when he's sleeping, but figuratively speaking! Tell him you aren't being stupid, you are being horny! 

If all else fails, get a strap-on, make it so he walks in on you toying with it while wearing it, and tell him you've discovered the art of "pegging" and then call him a little b1tch and tell him to get naked and peg his worthless but. That'll wake him up. You never know.. maybe he's into secret fantasies and that's his thing?

All kidding aside, you may want to also consider he may have a porn addiction online and masturbates so often that his libido is shot when it comes time to please you (which seems like he has a low libido from your original post).. if so, then you need to convince him to stop and that you will maintain whatever fantasies he craves instead. Just a possibility.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

timeforchange2013 said:


> I have started playing with myself in front of him and he just walks out thinking I am being stupid. I have stayed in the room and finished myself off.


I had to come back to this. It just floors me, as most women won't masturbate in front of men, so to do so is extremely hot for one, I don't see how a man could possibly just walk away .. it leds pause to the idea that he can possibly be sexually reawakened.

I guess my further curiosity is about your past.. was there ever a strong sexual relationship? My apologies if you already commented on that and I missed it.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Kaboom said:


> I had to come back to this. It just floors me, as most women won't masturbate in front of men, so to do so is extremely hot for one, I don't see how a man could possibly just walk away .. it leds pause to the idea that he can possibly be sexually reawakened.
> 
> I guess my further curiosity is about your past.. was there ever a strong sexual relationship? My apologies if you already commented on that and I missed it.


There's definitely some missing pieces here. My guess is that the H is _incredibly_ sexually repressed or otherwise unavailable to timeforchange.

TFC, is your H attracted to you? Have you guys gained weight or had any other major physical changes?

I think I asked before but I don't know if you answered, but like Kaboom asked, have you two every had a good sex life?


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Kaboom said:


> I had to come back to this. It just floors me, as most women won't masturbate in front of men, so to do so is extremely hot for one, I don't see how a man could possibly just walk away .. it leds pause to the idea that he can possibly be sexually reawakened.
> 
> I guess my further curiosity is about your past.. was there ever a strong sexual relationship? My apologies if you already commented on that and I missed it.



Oh geez just typed this whole thing pushed something and lost it. Writing on my phone that's what I get. I'll retype when I get to my computer.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> There's definitely some missing pieces here. My guess is that the H is _incredibly_ sexually repressed or otherwise unavailable to timeforchange.
> 
> TFC, is your H attracted to you? Have you guys gained weight or had any other major physical changes?
> 
> I think I asked before but I don't know if you answered, but like Kaboom asked, have you two every had a good sex life?


I am 5'8 145lbs and 36dd chest (natural not implants). IMO I'm attractive. I don't dress slumpy ever. I don't even own a pair of sweats. I work out every single day. 

Since meeting me and three kids later I am 8 lbs heavier he is 15. So no real weight gain. He's 6'1 and 215. So neither of us out of shape. 

Which brings back to screw it I am going to retype on my phone. 

Our sex life. It has always been about him. I get rejected 95% of the time I try to make advances. I have never once rejected him. Middle of the night ok. 41 weeks pregnant ok. 5 weeks post partum ok. Why?!? Because I know I better take it when I can. 

Our sex has always been missionary style in the dark and quiet. Like I said before the first time we ever had sex I was verbal and well let's just say the action stopped. 

I knew going in that sex was mild I was okay with that. Why the sudden change?!? Because surely after 8 years of marriage we can leave the lights in sometimes?!? I am clearly having a hormonal surge and your not even trying to support me through that. I'm not asking you to become a sex slave-could be fun- just some more regular sex that's all 

My real frustration comes in when you know I am frustrated and in need (sexually and emotionally) and you don't even try. You say things get my hopes up and then don't follow through. 

I am carrying the whole damn brick on my shoulders. Want to talk-my job. Want sex-wait for h to be ready. Etc. 

I am we'll endowed and well in 8 years he has never tried to have tittle sex with me?!? I can suck my own tits not trying to be graphic but I can. He has never tried to suck them with me. So --- when I had him tied up I made him . I made him watch me suck my own too. I put him in between them etc. I later asked if it turned him on to watch me suck them -- response no. Really?!?!? 

Did it turn you on to suck them with me? No! But if you want to suck them then do it. He says. 

FYI he never has viewed porn. I almost wish he would lol. But he never has! No magazines or anything.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

I was just thinking about something else. He used to masturbate everyday. I was about 5 months pregnant with our first and was walking around freaking horny all day. I came in the bathroom one day to find him masturbating. I went semi ape ****. Explaining how if he wants to masturbate fine but that he shouldn't be masturbating in place of having sex with me!! That if I was turning him down that's one thing but to do it when I am having to argue for sex hello?!?!? He stopped masturbating but the frequency of sex never increased. 

When we do have sex I compare it to hooker sex. Barely any kissing. Cum and done. He turns tv on and vegs out. There's no cuddling etc. he will cuddle if I go over to him and initiate it but if I wait for him to cuddle nope.


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## JoeHenderson (Oct 3, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> I have started playing with myself in front of him and he just walks out thinking I am being stupid. I have stayed in the room and finished myself off.


This is sad. I hope his action of leaving doesn't shake any confidence in your sexuality. He should have been there for you.


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## Why Not Be Happy? (Apr 16, 2010)

Wow! Sounds like he has a very low sex drive and real intimacy/compassion issues. I am a guy with a low drive wife and the stuff you're doing sounds fantastic. I think you need some marriage counseling.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Do you know if he has any abuse in his background? Toward him I mean. Of course if he's that quiet about his past you probably don't know.

What he's doing is not normal behavior. Most men I know would love for our wives to do what you're doing.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

timeforchange2013 said:


> I am 5'8 145lbs and 36dd chest (natural not implants). IMO I'm attractive. I don't dress slumpy ever. I don't even own a pair of sweats. I work out every single day.



Dump him! 



So what are you doing next Saturday night? 


j/k It sounds like low testosterone to me. I can't imagine a heterosexual man with testosterone flowing through his veins not being all over you after some of the things you've described. I'm thinking low libido and covering up for it with passive agressive acts to try to make you feel like you're the one with the problem.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm gonna go against the grain here and disagree with everyone else.

From what you've described, it doesn't really sound to me like you've created an atmosphere where your H would feel comfortable talking and/or exploring his sexuality. So far, all you've described are very high-stakes, high-pressure confrontations where you're trying to force him into it. Maybe I'm reading all this wrong.

Sexuality is one of the most secretive, repressed, and sometimes scariest portions of our psyches. For those who are very, very sexually repressed, they may be downright terrified of their own sexuality. If your H is incredibly sexually repressed, constantly throwing these high-pressure situations at him is probably making the situation worse. He may be playing it off as not giving a sh!t, but deep down inside he may be hurting.

And you know, there's always another possibility: Maybe he just likes plain vanilla sex. I think it's very telling that on this forum, anytime a man comes on here wanting anal, facials, or some other fringe sex act from his W, everyone annihilates him for wanting to degrade her against her will. But when a woman comes on here wanting to be tied up, spanked, or something else that her H doesn't want to do, we say he's being passive aggressive and emotionally unavailable. But maybe in this case, he just isn't into being the dom.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm ok with vanilla sex, really I am just don't be selfish and one sides about it and maybe try having it a bit more often.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Maybe Davelli, but I'm thinking those things are just a matter of being wired differently.

With the specifics laid out, I'm thinking this guy was molested as a child by another man, possibly abused sexually, and possibly (probably) homosexual in denial. Everything she says about him screams closet gay. 

Sorry timeforchange2013, but I really think that. his actions are beyond "not normal" and only those things properly explain his unusual behaviors in my opinion.

*disclaimer - we all have opinions and most of them are wrong lol.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Kaboom said:


> With the specifics laid out, I'm thinking this guy was molested as a child by another man, possibly abused sexually, and possibly (probably) homosexual in denial. Everything she says about him screams closet gay.


So because the guy isn't into light BDSM he must be gay? I understand the point you're trying to make, but really?

My point is that if he's gay, or if he was molested, or if he has some deep dark reason for being so repressed, throwing these high pressure confrontations at him is only going to make him clam up worse.

All that's conjecture, of course. TFC, you're the only one with access to your H. All I can tell you is that my W was also extremely repressed. Lots of shame and guilt. I won't go into specifics, but I will say that I tried to force her into just like you're doing, and it only made things worse. We had sex less often, and it became even more vanilla, and I became ever more frustrated.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Oh geez no he is not gay. To the best of my knowledge he's never been molested. He lived a pretty butter life nothing bad ever happened to him. We have talked about childhood molestation and he's never said anything so unless he's hidding it. But I don't think so. I think he's just self entitled and severely disconnected


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> So because the guy isn't into light BDSM he must be gay? I understand the point you're trying to make, but really?


But it's not just light bdsm.. he appears to be turned off to anything she does, and for that reason, I do think he's most likely gay. I threw in the other repression ideas because they are also possible from that POV.



Davelli0331 said:


> My point is that if he's gay, or if he was molested, or if he has some deep dark reason for being so repressed, throwing these high pressure confrontations at him is only going to make him clam up worse.


On this I agree 100%, although I just thought that maybe if his libido was down maybe her kinking it up might kickstart his drive.. I know it would mine  

Other than that, I didn't see it as pressure, although I can see where he might.

If he won't discuss his repression, or even admit it's there, then the problem is much bigger than the bedroom.

One thing I've learned over the years is that things will work ONLY when both parties want it to, and are willing to work hard enough to achieve progress. If one side won't do what it takes, either by apathy or unwillingness, then it's doomed regardless.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Oh geez no he is not gay. To the best of my knowledge he's never been molested. He lived a pretty butter life nothing bad ever happened to him. We have talked about childhood molestation and he's never said anything so unless he's hidding it. But I don't think so. I think he's just self entitled and severely disconnected


But how do you know? Because he said so? I think you might want to at least entertain the idea.. it can explain a LOT about his actions. I admit, I don't get the references to disconnection and self-entitlements you've mentioned. I guess it would require a few examples to paint the proper picture.

I'm honestly just trying to be helpful, even if I come off at you wrong.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Kaboom said:


> But it's not just light bdsm.. he appears to be turned off to anything she does, and for that reason, I do think he's most likely gay. I threw in the other repression ideas because they are also possible from that POV.


Go back and re-read the first post. She says he greatly enjoyed when she was the dom. The other things she's tried that he hasn't responded to have been masturbation, using toys on herself, sucking her own nipples, and her wanting him to be the dom.

If he's extremely repressed, then I can see those things freaking him out without him being gay. Regardless, OP has already refuted the gay theory.

Something that does stand out at me is that he enjoyed being dominated but does not want to dominate. I can buy that for a very repressed person, because it takes any and all responsibility for his sexual well-being out of his hands. He gets to enjoy great sex without having to face whatever makes him repress his sexuality.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

No I didn't take it as wrong rather me saying oh no not that. Lol. I suppose anything is entirely possible but really deep down feel like its something else. 

Example when I say self entitled is: I won't cuddle or talk to her because I want to do x right now. When I'm ready to make out we will even if then it's not a good time for her (ie if I'm in the middle of something)
Or I won't have sex tonight because I'm not in the mood even though I know she is. I'd rather go to sleep. Two days later he says I'm in the mood so I don't care what your status is tonight we will have sex and I know you never turn me down. 

H ; I'm not helping with cleaning you can do it. I would rather be doing x so that's what I'm going to do 

That's sort of what I mean by self entitled. He wants to do none of the work etc.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

Kaboom said:


> But how do you know? Because he said so? I think you might want to at least entertain the idea.. it can explain a LOT about his actions. I admit, I don't get the references to disconnection and self-entitlements you've mentioned. I guess it would require a few examples to paint the proper picture.
> 
> I'm honestly just trying to be helpful, even if I come off at you wrong.


I agree here. I also think there's much, much more to this story than is being revealed in this thread. There's some major missing piece, either with the H that is causing some kind of repression (or lack of desire), or the OP is leaving out some key piece of information. I tend to think there's some past issue with the H, or he just likes vanilla sex. Either way, I think it's beyond our help here to figure out what it is.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> No I didn't take it as wrong rather me saying oh no not that. Lol. I suppose anything is entirely possible but really deep down feel like its something else.
> 
> Example when I say self entitled is: I won't cuddle or talk to her because I want to do x right now. When I'm ready to make out we will even if then it's not a good time for her (ie if I'm in the middle of something)
> Or I won't have sex tonight because I'm not in the mood even though I know she is. I'd rather go to sleep. Two days later he says I'm in the mood so I don't care what your status is tonight we will have sex and I know you never turn me down.
> ...


That's the stuff you need to stop doing. If you keep meeting his needs, he has no motivation to change his ways.

It may seem petty, but sometimes marriages have to be tit-for-tat like that, otherwise the one person is simply taking advantage of the other.

So stop putting out any ol' time he wants it. If he turns you down, then turn him down later. Don't be childish about it, just tell him, "until we're on the same page sexually, I don't think we should be having any at all."

And stop picking up after him.


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## Kaboom (Feb 6, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> Go back and re-read the first post. She says he greatly enjoyed when she was the dom. The other things she's tried that he hasn't responded to have been masturbation, using toys on herself, sucking her own nipples, and her wanting him to be the dom.
> 
> If he's extremely repressed, then I can see those things freaking him out without him being gay. Regardless, OP has already refuted the gay theory.
> 
> Something that does stand out at me is that he enjoyed being dominated but does not want to dominate. I can buy that for a very repressed person, because it takes any and all responsibility for his sexual well-being out of his hands. He gets to enjoy great sex without having to face whatever makes him repress his sexuality.


I'd actually like to hear from the OP on this one. I again agree with a lot of what you say. I didn't take that meaning from her original post though..as far as her being the dom.. I took it as she took control in a one-time situation and ran with it, and he had no complaints, yet still regressed afterwards, like usual.

If I am mistaken and he is just sexually submissive.. well, that can be a whole different discussion.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Davelli0331 said:


> That's the stuff you need to stop doing. If you keep meeting his needs, he has no motivation to change his ways.
> 
> It may seem petty, but sometimes marriages have to be tit-for-tat like that, otherwise the one person is simply taking advantage of the other.
> 
> ...


I would except I'm so sex starved I will take it anytime I can get it and yes I do 100% get that is a problem!


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Kaboom said:


> I'd actually like to hear from the OP on this one. I again agree with a lot of what you say. I didn't take that meaning from her original post though..as far as her being the dom.. I took it as she took control in a one-time situation and ran with it, and he had no complaints, yet still regressed afterwards, like usual.
> 
> If I am mistaken and he is just sexually submissive.. well, that can be a whole different discussion.


Yes this was a one time deal. I mean I wouldn't mind if it were to happen again, it was fun! But this was definitely a first for us. I am fairly confident though if I said this is what we are doing he would do it, short of me trying to do something that went in his butt. I am pretty sure I could push the boundaries pretty far and he would enjoy it. Just like in all the other aspects of our relationship I call the shots. If I say clean he does, if I leave a note of things that need to be done he does, if I talk he talks, if I kiss him he kisses back. But he doesn't take initiative or initiate


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

timeforchange2013 said:


> Yes this was a one time deal. I mean I wouldn't mind if it were to happen again, it was fun! But this was definitely a first for us. I am fairly confident though if I said this is what we are doing he would do it, short of me trying to do something that went in his butt. I am pretty sure I could push the boundaries pretty far and he would enjoy it. Just like in all the other aspects of our relationship I call the shots. If I say clean he does, if I leave a note of things that need to be done he does, if I talk he talks, if I kiss him he kisses back. But he doesn't take initiative or initiate


Have you thought about continuing to initiate this kind of sex, but very slowly during this sex that you initiate, giving him very small roles as the more dominant one? Then as he normalizes to it, you start giving him more and more power? Maybe at some point he'd learn that there's nothing wrong with it.

I've said it before in this thread: You can't have a light BDSM experience that you initiated with your very repressed H and suddenly expect him to want to jump headfirst into it. In spite of all your hints, begging, pleading, and his broken promises and hints of wanting it, I think you're still going to have to take the lead on this.

Also, I'm going to say something that's very unpopular: Many women complain that they feel more like a mother than a W to their H's. I understand it completely and see it in many of my friends' marriages.

But understand this: If you act like his mother (constantly cleaning up after him, making sure he's in bed on time, etc), you are contributing 50% to the problem because you're enabling him.


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## timeforchange2013 (Feb 10, 2013)

Hmmm no I hadn't thought about this as an option. Yes I agree and realize I am contributing to the problem by enabling the behavior!  going to have to give that idea some thought though


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> Great Post.
> 
> I agree. He likely has shame issues/disgust issues etc.
> 
> ...


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## justfabulous (Feb 9, 2014)

You might be surprised at just how hard things might be for him, being this sexually reserved, conservative and very "proper" about sex. As someone else said, for whatever reason, it sounds like he has some guilt and shame issues about sex. I wondered about religion too, but you addressed that. There must have been some other type of early conditioning or influence that caused this very reserved behavior; you may not ever know what it was, and he may have no idea either. 

I went to a Catholic high school for girls, had "good girls syndrome" and really struggled for with significant shyness about sex, and yes, some guilt and shame about the sex; What you described of him reminds me a lot of myself in the early years. Crazy thing is I LOVED sex even back then and felt VERY sexual inside (you've mentioned some things that make me think husband is the same way); as a preteen, long before ever having sex, I had a LOT of interest in sex. So, despite all these inhibitions that kept holding me back, deep down on the inside I so badly wanted to be different. I WANTED to loosen up, wanted to be much more relaxed talking openly about sex, wanted to talk really dirty with my guy, and not be so afraid to try new things; Deep inside though I could never come out and admit it to him, I wanted to be able to let go and get crazy. I know it sounds strange, but I just didnt know HOW. Didnt even know how to admit it. It was actually a source of great pain for me, because somehow the person I was on the inside was totally out of sync with the person I projected on the outside- God only knows why. To this day I don't understand it. I was afraid of something, but I dont really know what. Yet to those I wasn't intimately involved with, I was perceived as this confident, sexually assured hot-chick. What a mess! 

So, start by understanding that there is something deeper going on here, and by what you describe, I suspect he actually (secretly) wants to be that guy and do all those things. There is some kind of guilt/ shame/ insecurity/ self confidence issue that is holding him back and trapping him within himself, depriving him of being who he probably really wants to be. Somewhere along the line, he got conditioned to be very 'proper' and he doesnt know how to break free from that. This is probably very hard for him (especially since men are supposed to be sexually adventurous and aggressors, on top of it all), and may in fact be a significant source of pain for him. 

Ultimatums or attempting to force things one way or another... thats not going to work. It may make him retreat more, may cause him tremendously more anxiety and screw things up much worse. 

You need to find a way to slowly help him get more comfortable with his sexuality, and to realize there is no need for shame or guilt in exploring an exciting sexual relationship with you. When he finally manages to break free of whatever is holding him back, he will feel more alive than he ever has. 

I might suggest that you get him a book entitled "Between the Sheets" (not sure the authors name but you can find it at Amazon) and ask him to read it. I havent read it but I hear its excellent in dealing with these types of situations and really getting uptight people to see sex from a whole different perspective, and learn thst its okay to loosen up, have fun and try stuff.. with no need for shame or embarrassment. I think its written from a Christian perspective, to bust through some of the uptight ideas religion sometimes pounds into peoples heads about sex. But I dont think you need to be religious to benefit from it. It might help him see all of this from a different persepctive and start to relax and become more open. I get the impression its had this exact effect on a lot of people (read the Amazon reviews...). I personally havent read it, but think I might order it out of curiousity, even though those issues are long behind me for the most part, but I'm always interested in new insights. Anway, worth a try for your guy.


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