# telling adult kids of OW



## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

HI again, 

Started a new thread hoping to be gain input and suggestions with specifics now that I am facing the facts that divorce is not longer a what if, but a when.

I mentioned my question is my first thread and have an opinion of how to handle, and do agree with the suggestion. Needing some specific advice. 

Both girls from my marriage live out of state and I am going out next week to meet up with them and one of the girls best friends, whom I know well. Short visit for the youngest 21 b day. Girl trip in Seattle with shopping and food! She is in cooking school 

Very close family friend of nearly 20 yrs is the OW. She works for him in the business I worked in as well. Very intermingled. Caught affair, confronted and told I was loved and that it would end and they would remain friend. I know, I know....

It didn't. Left business, moved out and told the girls that we have separated and working on our relationship. Said business and too much togetherness caused too much strain. At that time, and I am being honest here with what I thought was happening, they asked if he was having an affair. I said, no he is not having an affair right now. The other daughter asked if I was concerned about Her (the ow). I said that I couldn't control that and left it at that. Probably not the best choice at the time, but felt I was protecting them from the pain that his affair, let alone with whom he chose, would cause them. I still don't KNOW if they are "together", but there is a lot of talk that is not of moral character nor is it ethical.

I am wondering how to tell them or if it is too much info to thell them the real story of his affair or who with. I originally felt he should be the one to tell them, as it was his issue....but I know he is spineless and will not as I had to tell them the news originally and I don't think they have even discussed it in real terms. 

They are 21 and nearly 24. I do not want to make it any harder for them than need be, but have protected him during our whole marriage and am tired of it. Any thoughts? Thank you for reading and responding, and apologize for the long read.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

My mom told me and my brother about our dad's affair right after she found out. We were 22 and 18. We are 50 and 46 now and okay. My parent's reconciled and I was very angry at my dad but I never stopped loving him. We have a great relationship now but he was extremely ashamed and remorseful. I remember he couldn't look me in the eye for a while. I'm glad she told us instead of someone else. Can you imagine your kids finding out from some inconsiderate family member or friend?

She pretty much told us everything except about the sexual relationship. She told who it was, how they met and how long it had been going on. She told us the lies he told all of us to cover it up and be able to meet up with the OW. How she found out, gifts my dad bought the OW, and the trip he took the OW on. 

I would answer all their questions as truthfully as you can. I remember kind of being shocked and overwhelmed at the time and didn't really ask any questions. I do have some questions now but it's been so many years, I don't want to dredge up bad memories with my mom.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

They are old enough to handle it and draw their own conclusions. Why should you cover up the crap your husband has brought on your marriage. If his kids like him a little less then he has no-one to blame but himself, it is not as if you are going to be a happy family all together, they will be the kids of divorced parents, It is better that they know this reality now.

In fact it is my guess that the girls know more than you give them credit for. Stop trying to protect them and you POSWH.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When I was around 14, my father cheated. My mother initially was going to divorce him but decided to stay for me. That was a mistake because I never forgave my father and our relationship was forever damaged. I wish she had divorced him. 

My son was almost that same age when I discovered my husband had cheated. I decided to stay after DD1 but I didn't tell my son for the next 30 years (because I didn't want to affect their relationship) -- until I decided to divorce his father after DD2. His response? That he wished I had done that after DD1. 

Don't protect your husband as I protected mine. My husband didn't deserve that consideration and neither does yours. Tell your daughters.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I think I would be very honest with them. Clearly, they were perceptive about the situation when you initially told them about the separation. Maybe start back with that first conversation and remind them what you said and the questions they asked about the OW back then. They tell them the divorce is going forward, that their suspicions about the OW were well-founded, you cannot remain in the relationship under these circumstances, Say that no work has been done on the relationship. I would also tell them, quite honestly, that you cannot speak for their father. You don't know what he is thinking now or what his intentions with the OM really are. All you know for certain is that his allegiance is not with your marriage and that is not ok with you.

This gives them the facts and you're not calling their father an a$$hole. It is what it is. If it matters to you, you can remind them that he will always be their father (like they don't know that) and you are not asking or even suggesting that they pick sides in the divorce. If they ask about the specific in the divorce tell them its still early in the process and the attorneys will likely sort that out.

They sound like very intuitive young ladies. I think you'll be fine.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Thank you all so much. It is time to be honest with the reality of the situation. I did talk briefly last night to our oldest via text. It was kind of late. She seems to get the picture. 

Talked to the youngest as well, but the "chat" was shorter as she was just leaving work. 

I am ready to talk to them. I am tired of covering for his choices. They need to be allowed the benefit of being adults and making their own conclusions based on the facts, as best I know them. They can both handle it, as I know they would be angry if they found out via another person. It will come out eventually and most likely many already know.

Enough covering for someone that wouldn't cross the smallest pond for me.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> I think I would be very honest with them. Clearly, they were perceptive about the situation when you initially told them about the separation. Maybe start back with that first conversation and remind them what you said and the questions they asked about the OW back then. They tell them the divorce is going forward, that their suspicions about the OW were well-founded, you cannot remain in the relationship under these circumstances, Say that no work has been done on the relationship. I would also tell them, quite honestly, that you cannot speak for their father. You don't know what he is thinking now or what his intentions with the OM really are. All you know for certain is that his allegiance is not with your marriage and that is not ok with you.
> 
> This gives them the facts and you're not calling their father an a$$hole. It is what it is. If it matters to you, you can remind them that he will always be their father (like they don't know that) and you are not asking or even suggesting that they pick sides in the divorce. If they ask about the specific in the divorce tell them its still early in the process and the attorneys will likely sort that out.
> 
> They sound like very intuitive young ladies. I think you'll be fine.


Pluto - You are right, on all of your points. His allegiance is not with me and I am not ok with that. They are very intuitive and really aren't babies anymore. They need to hear what is happening. I really am not protecting them from anything. I have not done anything wrong and telling them the facts is not "damaging his relationship with them". (which was his concern early on) 

He made the choice and continues with that choice to cause his own issues with them. 
Thank you again.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Openminded said:


> When I was around 14, my father cheated. My mother initially was going to divorce him but decided to stay for me. That was a mistake because I never forgave my father and our relationship was forever damaged. I wish she had divorced him.
> 
> My son was almost that same age when I discovered my husband had cheated. I decided to stay after DD1 but I didn't tell my son for the next 30 years (because I didn't want to affect their relationship) -- until I decided to divorce his father after DD2. His response? That he wished I had done that after DD1.
> 
> Don't protect your husband as I protected mine. My husband didn't deserve that consideration and neither does yours. Tell your daughters.


Openminded - I am so sorry for the pain and hurt you endured as well. I cannot imagine the tough decision to make of staying or not staying when the kids are still home. My heart goes out to your Mother and you. YOu both did what you felt best at the time. 

I also think that our parent's decisions affect our decisions as well. We follow that lead. I am sorry your son didn't agree with your choice to stay at the time. I hope that he is not angry or carrying that with him in his relationships. 

I have protected him for years, even though I didn't realize that until recently. I thought I was being the dutiful wife (bluk) and taking care of our family. He doesn't deserve that from me anymore and I am tired of hiding. 

I really am ready to tell them. I just have to try to keep from crying


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

aine said:


> They are old enough to handle it and draw their own conclusions. Why should you cover up the crap your husband has brought on your marriage. If his kids like him a little less then he has no-one to blame but himself, it is not as if you are going to be a happy family all together, they will be the kids of divorced parents, It is better that they know this reality now.
> 
> In fact it is my guess that the girls know more than you give them credit for. Stop trying to protect them and you POSWH.


Aine - I do believe they know more than I am giving them credit, even from a distance. I have been "hiding" in a sense from them for the past years. Conversations felt strained because I was afraid of "slipping". 
No more of that. No more covering. No more being ashamed. It is time!


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Hi SoccerMom - 

Thank you for your help on this one too. I do not blame you for not wanting to bring the past up after so many years; even though I am sure they would understand and try to help answer the questions. 

I am assuming the girls will be angry with H but they do love him. I am not sure they will ask anything of him directly. He does not communicate well, in the form of getting frustrated and walking away or just ignoring the questions. They did not ask me any questions when I told them (via phone) that we were separating. They did ask a few questions later on and are "always" happy that we are still trying to work through things but also trying to be happy. That part will be hard, the telling them that he is not willing to work on our marriage. He feels that distance is what he needs. NOt sure how that ever helps, so will not be able to explain that to them. They will have to ask their dad.

The OW will be tough too as they look at her like another mom. She has been in their life since they were both young. It will be hard and I am not sure they will ever be able to get to a point of resolution with that part of it. However, nor will I. 

Thank you for your insight and giving me more ideas. I know it will be tough, but will feel much better when out there.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

breezycello said:


> Openminded - I am so sorry for the pain and hurt you endured as well. I cannot imagine the tough decision to make of staying or not staying when the kids are still home. My heart goes out to your Mother and you. YOu both did what you felt best at the time.
> 
> I also think that our parent's decisions affect our decisions as well. We follow that lead. I am sorry your son didn't agree with your choice to stay at the time. I hope that he is not angry or carrying that with him in his relationships.
> 
> ...


Thank you -- that's very kind. It's definitely a hard road to travel when we have these things to deal with. I spent 45 years protecting my ex-husband. Now he's someone else's problem and I don't have that to deal with any longer. I'm free and that feeling is priceless. I never, in all those years of marriage, put myself first. Now I do. There is life on the other side of divorce and there will be a good one for you too. 

As to my son, he's now a middle-aged man and no longer the young boy I tried to spare from experiencing the divorce of his parents. He was shocked I was divorcing so late in life (since I didn't do it when he felt I should, he thought I never would) but I've discussed it with him a lot since the divorce and he understands why I stayed. 

I know well how hard it is for you to do this. And how much you wish you didn't have to. Ending any marriage is difficult but ending a long marriage is very, very difficult. My thoughts are with you.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There is a good article at Marriage Builders by Dr. Harley about who and when to expose to. I can't link it with my tablet.

One major point is to never lie to children to cover for the other cheating, lying parent. Its much better to have only one parent that lies to them rather than both. Lying, for any reason, destroys trust.

You need to answer any of their questions and apologize for lying to them. Their father made bad decisions, let him carry his own weight.

Has he been served yet?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Just one more thought BC, what are we teaching our daughters when we cover and make excuses for the bad and hurtful behaviour of our husbands. I have a DD19 and I never want her to have to go through some of the stuff I have put up with from my H. I want her to be loving, strong and secure in who she is. We have to be open and honest with our DDs so that they do not allow themselves to take on the burden of another's choices, unfortunately, too many women are groomed to believe that whatever happens in the relationship is her responsibility/fault. We also pass this on to our daughters by our behaviour and try to cover up in the name of protection. I say 'expose' 'expose' 'expose', they will learn that no one is infallible also.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> There is a good article at Marriage Builders by Dr. Harley about who and when to expose to. I can't link it with my tablet.
> 
> One major point is to never lie to children to cover for the other cheating, lying parent. Its much better to have only one parent that lies to them rather than both. Lying, for any reason, destroys trust.
> 
> ...


Thank you Chaparral - I will go and find the article. I agree with the no lying and cheating. I was too vague in the beginning and it would have destroyed our relationship over time. 

He has not yet been served. My attorney called me back right before I left town, so need to call her Monday.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

aine said:


> Just one more thought BC, what are we teaching our daughters when we cover and make excuses for the bad and hurtful behaviour of our husbands. I have a DD19 and I never want her to have to go through some of the stuff I have put up with from my H. I want her to be loving, strong and secure in who she is. We have to be open and honest with our DDs so that they do not allow themselves to take on the burden of another's choices, unfortunately, too many women are groomed to believe that whatever happens in the relationship is her responsibility/fault. We also pass this on to our daughters by our behaviour and try to cover up in the name of protection. I say 'expose' 'expose' 'expose', they will learn that no one is infallible also.


Oh Aine - i cannot agree more...One of my fears is that they think that what I have put up with to "keep our family together" is what they will tolerate for their life. I did not realize at the time what I was accepting was not what a family or love should look like.
I am working with both of them to be sure they do not tolerate or accept anything less than what makes them truly happy!


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Thank you -- that's very kind. It's definitely a hard road to travel when we have these things to deal with. I spent 45 years protecting my ex-husband. Now he's someone else's problem and I don't have that to deal with any longer. I'm free and that feeling is priceless. I never, in all those years of marriage, put myself first. Now I do. There is life on the other side of divorce and there will be a good one for you too.
> 
> As to my son, he's now a middle-aged man and no longer the young boy I tried to spare from experiencing the divorce of his parents. He was shocked I was divorcing so late in life (since I didn't do it when he felt I should, he thought I never would) but I've discussed it with him a lot since the divorce and he understands why I stayed.
> 
> I know well how hard it is for you to do this. And how much you wish you didn't have to. Ending any marriage is difficult but ending a long marriage is very, very difficult. My thoughts are with you.


I want to get to the place of him being somebody else's problem. I am glad that you and your son were able to works through it and he understands. Even though it took some time to get there, still a good ending. 

Thank you for your thoughts and words!


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Update - heading back home. Told the girls. The DD21 actually flat asked. I was honest without all of the sordid details. Then she told DD23, so I did the same with her. All in about 30 min.

DD23 text her Dad and was quite angry. Words of disappointment and not understanding. He got angry and now they are not talking. Kind of a history with them. Aside from that, now he is angry with me because he thinks I made him to be the bad, ugly guy. And yes, I realize he created this. He does need to own up to his actions, but I did not say anything ugly or spiteful toward him. They can make their own conclusions. 

He will not talk about it with me and is over it so he says. The OW just text DD21 to say she understands if she wants her out of her life. This is what gets me "I am sorry for the hurt"...ugh, no accountability there....I don't give two cents about OW, but sad for my kids and me too...stupid as that sounds. 

I know we need to divorce, and now he says that he knows the direction he needs to go....I know the direction too, but having a hard time getting there. The girls handled it well, up front. Life will go on and they will be ok. I do feel better that it is out in the open. Thank you all for your help and kind words. I do still believe telling them is the best route to go!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Breezy, you did very well.

This is something STBX and his kids have to navigate for themselves. 

Anticipate more animosity coming from your STBX. If he's at all like mine, he will blame you for any problems with his relationship with his children, never once being able to accept responsibility for his actions. Three years later and my ex refuses to accept any responsibility. He just doesn't have the ability to do it. Hopefully I'm wrong. Hopefully, he will make the effort necessary to heal the relationship.

Also, anticipate your girls will have more to say to you. There emotions may be similar to a roller coaster. And who can blame them for that? Let them vent and ask more questions, and love them all the more for it.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Pluto2 said:


> Breezy, you did very well.
> 
> This is something STBX and his kids have to navigate for themselves.
> 
> ...


Pluto - Thank you for pointing out that this is for him to navigate with the kids, not me. Part of my issue is to always want to "help". In this case, I would not help and he needs to stand up. 

Yes, I will anticipate more animocity. I actually except it. He already threw me under the bus once, it will continue. He seems to be doing ok with DD21 but not talking to DD23. They are both hotheads and speak without thinking. She said nothing wrong, only her feelings toward him and he looks at that as lack of respect. Instead all he would have had to say is I am sorry. I hope they can get there. 

I hope they do ask more questions. I want them to understand that this has been a tough road and that none of this is cause for concern to their future. I want them to know that I can be happy again and am actually dealing much better than a few months ago. I will support them in any way I can. I hope he can man up and do that as well. 

Last night he wouldn't even talk about it and said he was over it. No discussion, just over it. Says he is not mad at me but I don't know what he is. Havent heard from him today. He is fishing. Actually more at peace today as well. 

Thank you!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BC, you did the right thing and yes, it is not your responsibility to help him maintain his relationships with his own kids, too often we women step into that role. He is the one who created the mess, let him clean it up. You have told the truth, have been transparent which is the right thing to do.

On another note, why are you still in contact with him, shouldn't you be giving him the big heavo and doing the 180 on him. Just concerned he is having his foot in with you too, isn't it clear that he is not coming back?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

breezycello said:


> Pluto - Thank you for pointing out that this is for him to navigate with the kids, not me. Part of my issue is to always want to "help". In this case, I would not help and he needs to stand up.
> 
> Yes, I will anticipate more animocity. I actually except it. He already threw me under the bus once, it will continue. He seems to be doing ok with DD21 but not talking to DD23. They are both hotheads and speak without thinking. She said nothing wrong, only her feelings toward him and he looks at that as lack of respect. Instead all he would have had to say is I am sorry. I hope they can get there.
> 
> ...


Why on earth are you even talking to him? You're a glutten for punishment! >. That's what my grandparents used to say:laugh:.

Do the 180, it sounds like you're still trying to take care of him.

He who files first files best. Filing let's you control the deck. Ask for the moon then ****er down. Otherwise, you will have to fight for every scrap. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, he knows how to lie.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

??????????d!cker is a bad word?&#55357;&#56839;


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

aine said:


> BC, you did the right thing and yes, it is not your responsibility to help him maintain his relationships with his own kids, too often we women step into that role. He is the one who created the mess, let him clean it up. You have told the truth, have been transparent which is the right thing to do.
> 
> On another note, why are you still in contact with him, shouldn't you be giving him the big heavo and doing the 180 on him. Just concerned he is having his foot in with you too, isn't it clear that he is not coming back?


Thank you Aine. Yes, I struggle with the contact thing a bit. BUT I will say that I am getting better. Our dog seems to be the connecting point. We have had her for 8 yrs and even though she was really his hunting dog, I feel responsible for her as well. I went out and picked her up yesterday while he was fishing, didn't hear a word until this morning. He is leaving to travel for work today. The text was "Can she stay with you?" That was it...I said "yes"...He said thank you. End of story. Want to reach out but am not doing it. His throwing me under the bus with the girls has me focused (for now).

My parents came over today and I found out that he told him parents in January that we were having trouble and that I had changed. Now, I realize that should not be a big deal, because we have both changed throughout this mess. However, what bothers me is that he just won't accept that any of this is his fault. I have changed, causing him to step out and not want to be with me as there is no spark. Ugh....It hurts that he is trashing me (in a sense) but really makes me angry as well. I am not really sure how to get past that yet.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> ??????????d!cker is a bad word?��


Chaparral, you made me smile. I like that word, seems fitting!

You are right, I am still trying to take care of him in a sense. I really am working hard to not do that. Part of my nature is a nurturer, to a fault. One of the things he now complains about. But was ok for 20 some years...Ugh. 

I don't know what has kept me here so long, other than codepence and fear. I went right from high school to marriage...NOt even sure I know how to be me without him, but learning. Fear in the sense that will I fall apart if I actually cut the tie. Silly I know. I have lived now 2 mos by myself, can support myself and truly don't need him or the $$$$....that would be the easiest. But I know that is not fair to me for all of the years of marriage and what we have built. 

Looking back now, I would have been better to move out of this city as our circles are in the same groups and we are in a small town. However, my parents are here and my Dad has had medical issues, including emotional, for the past 3 years. I think that would tear him up...

I am calling the attorney back tomorrow. Hope to get an appointment this week. Need to get the ball rolling. 

Thank you for your advice and thoughts!!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The less you contact him, the easier it becomes. 

I came out of a 45 year marriage and had never been on my own. My ex-husband traveled a lot for work so I was used to being alone, and totally comfortable with that, but that obviously was not the same as being completely on my own. I quickly discovered I love having only myself to take care of and to consider (something I had neglected during those decades of taking care of others). 

You'll be amazed at how great you'll feel.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Just chiming in to agree that you did the right thing. Your DDs already suspected, so you certainly couldn't continue the charade with them. And even if they didn't, you still have to show them that one parent respects them enough to be honest with them.

When STBX and I told our 13-year-old son about our planned divorce, I asked beforehand that he tell him also about the OW. Considering he and she had already been talking marriage before I even found out about her and she was going to be a part of my son's life in the foreseeable future, I felt he had a right to know and prepare himself. He didn't suspect anything beforehand because STBX's affair was a long distance one and we appeared to him to be getting along fine. Of course he was upset at first, but more that his Dad was leaving at all than at the reason.

I got the same flak as you from STBX afterwards - "We shouldn't have told him - he didn't need to know." I guess he thought he'd air drop her in in a few months and pretend he'd "just" met her. I asked my son a few weeks later if he thought we should have told him or not, and he said "Of course you should have. I would have found out eventually, and then there'd just be more controversy and drama. There was no point in not telling me." I thought to myself, "Well, your Dad thought there was one - to cover his @ss." But I didn't say it. That's the key - never badmouthing him. I haven't once. And now two months after telling him, their relationship is fine. Of course, rather than saying "You were right - we did the right thing telling him the truth," STBX said the other day, "See? Our divorce isn't hurting him any. He's doing great."

It turns out it's possible to loathe someone you once thought you loved.

You done good, BC. If your STBX tries to tell you that telling them "only hurt them" (I got that, too), tell him "No. Your affair only hurt them. That was a choice you made. This is a consequence of that choice. And by the way, I'm 'over' all your bullsh!t."


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

breezycello said:


> Thank you Aine. Yes, I struggle with the contact thing a bit. BUT I will say that I am getting better. Our dog seems to be the connecting point. We have had her for 8 yrs and even though she was really his hunting dog, I feel responsible for her as well. I went out and picked her up yesterday while he was fishing, didn't hear a word until this morning. He is leaving to travel for work today. The text was "Can she stay with you?" That was it...I said "yes"...He said thank you. End of story. Want to reach out but am not doing it. His throwing me under the bus with the girls has me focused (for now).
> 
> My parents came over today and I found out that he told him parents in January that we were having trouble and that I had changed. Now, I realize that should not be a big deal, because we have both changed throughout this mess. However, what bothers me is that he just won't accept that any of this is his fault. I have changed, causing him to step out and not want to be with me as there is no spark. Ugh....It hurts that he is trashing me (in a sense) but really makes me angry as well. I am not really sure how to get past that yet.


BC, of course you have changed, we all do over the decades. Your husband sounds like a coward and doesn't want to face up to his own changes and mistakes. Your parents are YOUR parents and will love you no matter what, I am sure they will see through his manipulation. One day he will face his demons, but that is not your problem right now, you work and do things for you so that you are ready to move on.

I would suggest that the next time he asks you to take care of the dog, you tell him to ask the OW, you don't have the time. He still has you to do his stuff for him, please stop immediately. The OW gets the man without all the necessary day to day chores, etc. He is the one who dumped you so why should you continue with domestic arrangements to suit him? You are no longer available for that, he chose her, then she can be his domestic aid.
I know what it is like to be attached to dogs (I love them) and it's like losing a child, but I would suggest you cut that string and get yourself another little dog, why not? 
Show him you are not going to be available at his beck and call, he knows he can just call whenever he wants and you willingly pick up the slack, if you are really doing the 180 you will stop this. Let him see that life without you is not so simple. Affairs live in fog without all the day to day mundane domestic routines, he has her for the fun part and you for the chores, cut all of the connecting points, be as dark as is possible. And you will get through this.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

I wish I could like this^^^^^1000x's


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Openminded said:


> The less you contact him, the easier it becomes.
> 
> I came out of a 45 year marriage and had never been on my own. My ex-husband traveled a lot for work so I was used to being alone, and totally comfortable with that, but that obviously was not the same as being completely on my own. I quickly discovered I love having only myself to take care of and to consider (something I had neglected during those decades of taking care of others).
> 
> You'll be amazed at how great you'll feel.


Openminded - I am so sorry you were in such a long term marriage and then had to be completely on your own. I have been married 26 yrs, together 31 total. My stbxh travelled a lot too and has for many years, so I am used to the alone time as well. It was hard at first, but got used to it. But you are so right, it is very different than being totally on your own. No longer just a text to say hi, while on the road.

I do love being on my own and am pretty comfy here. But I will say I do miss the just the sense of him here. Realizing, of course, that he hasnt been here for a long time. 

The girls are doing well. He still isn't speaking to the oldest, but that is his issue to deal with and of course, he isn't. NOt sure when he will. They are both quite stubborn and all he would have to say is I am sorry. Sad.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Just chiming in to agree that you did the right thing. Your DDs already suspected, so you certainly couldn't continue the charade with them. And even if they didn't, you still have to show them that one parent respects them enough to be honest with them.
> 
> When STBX and I told our 13-year-old son about our planned divorce, I asked beforehand that he tell him also about the OW. Considering he and she had already been talking marriage before I even found out about her and she was going to be a part of my son's life in the foreseeable future, I felt he had a right to know and prepare himself. He didn't suspect anything beforehand because STBX's affair was a long distance one and we appeared to him to be getting along fine. Of course he was upset at first, but more that his Dad was leaving at all than at the reason.
> 
> ...


Hi No More - Funny how these guys do or say so many of the same things to us. I have not "talked" to him since telling the girls, except for the one night he wouldn't talk about it. He is out of town and we are not communicating. 3 days - woo hoo

I am sure I will get the same comments you did. I am glad your son and ex have worked it out. One less thing for him to keep blaming you for. The girls were glad that I told them as well and have come back with some questions, most of which i could answer. The beginning and ending dates I could not. I told her when I found out, but didn't know when it started. I don't even know that it has ended, so left that open. She needs to ask her dad. I am glad she is asking though. 

He really has been a good dad, but definitely felt his job is and was (for them) the provider. Now, he is only providing for them financially and nothing emotionally which is sad. I think they still need that from their dad.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

aine said:


> BC, of course you have changed, we all do over the decades. Your husband sounds like a coward and doesn't want to face up to his own changes and mistakes. Your parents are YOUR parents and will love you no matter what, I am sure they will see through his manipulation. One day he will face his demons, but that is not your problem right now, you work and do things for you so that you are ready to move on.
> 
> I would suggest that the next time he asks you to take care of the dog, you tell him to ask the OW, you don't have the time. He still has you to do his stuff for him, please stop immediately. The OW gets the man without all the necessary day to day chores, etc. He is the one who dumped you so why should you continue with domestic arrangements to suit him? You are no longer available for that, he chose her, then she can be his domestic aid.
> I know what it is like to be attached to dogs (I love them) and it's like losing a child, but I would suggest you cut that string and get yourself another little dog, why not?
> Show him you are not going to be available at his beck and call, he knows he can just call whenever he wants and you willingly pick up the slack, if you are really doing the 180 you will stop this. Let him see that life without you is not so simple. Affairs live in fog without all the day to day mundane domestic routines, he has her for the fun part and you for the chores, cut all of the connecting points, be as dark as is possible. And you will get through this.


Aine - Thank you for your advice, as all others as well. It is really very helpful and made me be stronger than I ever thought I could be.

The parents he talked to were his parents. Mine are good and totally supportive, but don't hate him either. No badmouthing from me, just honesty. I was thinking of sending his Mom and Dad a card just telling them that I miss them. I have known them for 30 years and love them dearly. I haven't called or reached out yet. For some stupid reason, I don't want to step on his toes or give him more ammo...but really they are my family now too. Feel sad and miss them. 

He really is a coward and that has been proven time and time again, especially with admitting that this is his choice, regardless of whatever nasty person he makes me out to be...I do not want to be his go to girl or errand chick. You are right, that is all he wants from me, to make his life easier. I will try very hard to tell him to keep the dog next run. I do already have a little dog. He bought him for me in December, I am sure to give me something else to dote on and his guilt. I do love him, crazy little guy!


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Update as of now: 

Doing the 180...feel pretty strong with it for now again...

One DD23 text me last night with some questions...when did it start and end, was it physical. No details, but answered what I could. She is not talking to her Dad and vice versa. She did tell me that she text the OW, who really has been a 2nd Mom to her for many years, that she never wants to hear from her again...Of course, OW text back with whatever excuse she had but asked DD23 to not tell OW daughter. They are the same age, grew up together and went to high school together. Very good friends. DD23 going to a wedding in same town as OW daughter next week. OW said it was a family matter and she didn't share the things that my daughter told her over the years...however DD23 has already shared everything and we are very close. Total guilt trip. So DD23 is trying to figure out if she should tell her or not....She asked my opinion.

I said, I cannot tell her what to do but she needs to follow her heart and think it all the way through, her reasons for telling and her expectations with it. Just don't want her to knee jerk react. She is a bit of a hot head with a temper  She said, wouldn't you want to know. I said yes....Funny that she thought of this one. Even though OW said it was a family matter, we really have been family for years...vacations together, sharing family holidays etc...Daughter sees that and that OW brought this to our plate when she had a long term affair with her Dad and my husband. I feel she is choosing as I have raised her. Her Dad will be furious again. She is aware of that too and ready to deal with it.

Do you guys think that I should have given different advice?


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

I would let it be your daughter's decision. I wouldn't blame her in the least if she wants to tell. I've seen numerous times on this board the advice to "go nuclear" where exposure is concerned. It isn't like your daughter would be spreading rumors - she's telling the truth. Your husband would have no reason to be mad at your daughter - he caused this, not her. Cheaters always place blame on everyone but their lying, cheating selves. If your daughter does tell her, I would say it's just a consequence of the cheaters' actions. If they didn't want people to know about their affair, they shouldn't have done it in the first place!!


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

After I sent the last message, I received a call that I missed from STBXH. Tried to call back no answer. An hour and a half later, a text from him that asked me to please talk to DD23 and ask her to stop her moral high horse. Basically, she has decided to tell the OW daughter about the affair. They have been close for years, as I stated earlier. She told OW in case OW wanted to do it herself. Instead, OW lashed at her about how she needs to rethink her morals and that blah blah. Then OW text Dad and he then text DD23.

Lashed at her and at the end said he was cutting off her finances and disowning her. Ugh....she is strong. Did talk to her but so hurt and worried he will never come back. He then text me about how I should have never told them, imagine that. I made him look like the bad guy and now he will quit paying my bills...good grief. That amounts to car pmt, insurance for car and cell...I tried for some ongodly reason to tell him that this was his deal and he has no reason to be mad at me. Now not talking to me either.

What a mess...Trying to let it go, needed to vent. I really didn't say one bad word and he says I made him the bad guy. That does hurt but guess I should have expected that. So sad


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

No. HE made himself the bad guy.

Don't let him do that to you. My STBX tried to do that to me when I asked that he tell our son the whole truth, he did, and was surprised to find he thought he was a jerk for cheating and lying.

He'll get over it, just like he got over you, and just like my STBX got over me. These guys aren't capable of any depth of feeling. They are only masters of blame shifting.

Your DD23 is right to be outraged. What he's done and is still doing is outrageous. Be proud you raised her to have a strong sense of justice. And remind yourself you did nothing wrong. You told them the truth without embellishment. Like any proper parent would.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

breezycello said:


> After I sent the last message, I received a call that I missed from STBXH. Tried to call back no answer. Why call him back, stop 'chasing after him. If he wants to reach you, he will eventually, you still have this obligationary response towards him. He caused all of this remember. he doesnt deserve your loyalty or your pandering
> 
> An hour and a half later, a text from him that asked me to please talk to DD23 and ask her to stop her moral high horse. Basically, she has decided to tell the OW daughter about the affair. That is your DD23's choice, nothing to do with you. You must make this clear to him, she is an adult and you are not getting involved. She is HIS daughter too, tell him to sort it out with her, you have enough on your plate. It is not your job to pacify him, her, OW you are the one who has been betrayed.They have been close for years, as I stated earlier. She told OW in case OW wanted to do it herself. Instead, OW lashed at her about how she needs to rethink her morals and that blah blah. Then OW text Dad and he then text DD23.they are scared to death of being exposed. This should have been done a long long time ago. You tell your WH you are not getting involved, he created the mess , so he can sort it out, your are not his 'champion' 'clean up guy' 'spin doctor' whatever, he needs to be very clear about this. He chose this path and HE and OW have to deal with the consequences, you are dealing with the consequences alone
> 
> ...


BOf course you should expect all of this and there will be more to come. He is not your friend. You have to remember this, his loyalty is to the OW. You need to be mad at what is happening. How dare him turn it all around on you. You have to say 'enough is enough' and follow through.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> No. HE made himself the bad guy.
> 
> Don't let him do that to you. My STBX tried to do that to me when I asked that he tell our son the whole truth, he did, and was surprised to find he thought he was a jerk for cheating and lying.
> 
> ...


I am actually feeling angry, finally. My STBX said that he did not want me to tell them until we could sit down together. I have been trying to get him to do that for months. I had to tell them of my leaving the business and moving out, on my own. Why would this be any different. He said I should not be surprised that I have caused their current relationship issues. Seriously??? My fault that he is not dealing? Get real. Just like you said, masters of blame shifting.

I am glad you are doing ok with all of this and can lend your support. It helps tremendously. I am still sad that you have to go through it however. I am very proud of her. She is the same personality as him, quick temper and a bit judgmental. But she has the soft motherly side as well. She is really hurting, between anger that her dad would actually treat her this way and sad because she may lose him. I just tried to give her strength that this is who he has been and it is not her. He is behaving this way to all of us. He is afraid of it all coming out and he has to then face it. I did ask her to go to a counsellor to get help with channeling the anger so that she can use it productively and not get hung up on it. I told her not to worry about her rent etc. Give it a couple of days and if nothing, I will help. I have some money saved and family that can help. I cannot imagine a parent dropping a child like that. 

I feel hurt for her. Of course, she is my baby right? She actually apologized to me because she feels he is angry with me because of her. I said oh no, absolutely no....he is just angry and looking to lash where he can. Not her fault and I am prepared for it. No crying even. phew!

I am still glad that I was able to tell them the way it went, by their asking me questions. He actually said I should have gone around the question with them until we could be sit down...in other words lie to them as I have been doing to cover him. No more.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

Unbelievable Breezy. STBXH takes a swim in the sewer and then gets upset when DD23 says he stinks.

His guilt is eating him alive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

_"]_After I sent the last message, I received a call that I missed from STBXH. Tried to call back no answer. Why call him back, stop 'chasing after him. If he wants to reach you, he will eventually, you still have this obligationary response towards him. He caused all of this remember. he doesnt deserve your loyalty or your pandering. 

You are right - he doesn't deserve me following up with him or any type of loyalty. [/I][/I]
An hour and a half later, a text from him that asked me to please talk to DD23 and ask her to stop her moral high horse. Basically, she has decided to tell the OW daughter about the affair. That is your DD23's choice, nothing to do with you. You must make this clear to him, she is an adult and you are not getting involved. She is HIS daughter too, tell him to sort it out with her, you have enough on your plate. It is not your job to pacify him, her, OW you are the one who has been betrayed.

I agree again, nothing to do with me. I did make that clear to him, but he still blames me for saying anything so apparently thinks I shoiuld fix it. He is just not listening to me. 

They have been close for years, as I stated earlier. She told OW in case OW wanted to do it herself. Instead, OW lashed at her about how she needs to rethink her morals and that blah blah. Then OW text Dad and he then text DD23.they are scared to death of being exposed. This should have been done a long long time ago. You tell your WH you are not getting involved, he created the mess , so he can sort it out, your are not his 'champion' 'clean up guy' 'spin doctor' whatever, he needs to be very clear about this. He chose this path and HE and OW have to deal with the consequences, you are dealing with the consequences alone

Yes, should have been done a long time ago. I was protecting thinking we could work through it. Didn't happen, just got worse. They do need to deal with the consequences. I just need to find a way to get that to him as he wont talk or text now. He made this bed, now lie in it. Did he think I would keep his secret forever especially when he has made it quite clear that he doesn't want me? 

Lashed at her and at the end said he was cutting off her finances and disowning her. Ugh....she is strong. Did talk to her but so hurt and worried he will never come back. Of course that is all he can do, threaten, throw his weight around, I think your DD23 is big enough to handle him. She has every right to call him and OW out on their despicable behavior, he will fume like a spoilt brat, let him. You brought your daughter up well 

Thank you. I am very proud of her but now she is worried about rent and bills. This is not her problem and he is making it her problem. He is throwing the money thing around because that is all he can control. He has nothing left. 

He then text me about how I should have never told them, imagine that. I made him look like the bad guy and now he will quit paying my bills...good grief. You tell him, you owe him no loyalty whatsoever because he has shown absolutely no loyalty by betraying you. And if he wants a fight, so be it in divorce court, you will be entitled to half of the business, etc. If he wants to be a grown up then you can also be reasonable but do NOT let him bully you into acquiescence 

I will tell him that. I gave him all of me, including my loyalty and I no longer owe him that and really didn't then. I just did not want this to get ugly. Want it done, I am tired and maybe hitting the ambivilent part. I called the bank tonight. Need to get a car in my name only as he pays for the one i am driving now. Payment is too high for me. Good step forward for me. Will call atty back in am too and get that rolling.

That amounts to car pmt, insurance for car and cell...I tried for some ongodly reason to tell him that this was his deal and he has no reason to be mad at me. Now not talking to me either. Let him fume, he will eventually calm down. In the meantime get your ducks in a row with your lawyer, this could get ugly, be prepared

What a mess...Trying to let it go, needed to vent. I really didn't say one bad word and he says I made him the bad guy. That does hurt but guess I should have expected that. So sad

Yes, he is fuming, probably with her. They are scared to death now. Fear will make them do crazy things such as this. Her family will be destroyed and her daughter will not support her. She will support her dad. Did they think they could just keep riding this fairy tale and nobody would find oiut and all would be happy? Seriously.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Absurdist said:


> Unbelievable Breezy. STBXH takes a swim in the sewer and then gets upset when DD23 says he stinks.
> 
> His guilt is eating him alive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I told him that he was not being rational. He attempted to disown her years ago when she got a dui...that passed but took 3 mos. She may be in the same position again. He is justifying everything by directing it at me because I told them. 

I do believe his guilt is eating him. He has said in the past this is not who he wants to be or who he is, but he quit counselling after 2 sessions, so how is he supposed to change that if he doesn't want that? In essence, it just sounds good but doesn't want to try. his guilt will drag him down and ruin what relationships he has left except with OW as she will be there by his side.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

I am actually finally feeling mad. I am furious over how he is treating our daughter. and also how he is treating me. I can deal with it though. She is young and this is still pretty new to her. I suggested she find a counselor out there to help her with the anger. Everything she is feeling and saying is spot on, but she needs to find a channel for it if she cannot talk to Dad about it. 

Anger toward me as the spouse is tolerable, not right but tolerable. It is so not fair for him to project to his own kids who love him and have help him on such a high pedestal for so long. He is basically telling them it is best to lie and not be honest. And if you are honest with this one, I am shutting you out. I cannot imagine how awful that must feel. She needs a blog site like TAM.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

OMG, your STBX and OW are behaving like typical cheaters and it just makes me want to vomit.

How DARE OW ask your daughter to protect that skank from her family's wrath. They engage in deceitful behavior and think everyone in the world should join in to protect them. Outrageous. FWIW,I think you gave your daughter good advice. She's an adult and can make up her own mind on how to treat a friend-a friend whose life is directly impacted by this.

Your STBXH also behaved as expected. Stop calling him. I mean that, just stop. Understand that he has no loyalty towards you and your children right now. Maybe one day this will change but in his little fogged up mind the world is now divided into two camps: those that will help him continue in the A, and those that won't. Your daughters are now in the second camp. Maybe he will go back to being their father first, and maybe he won't. Only time will tell. I'm sorry you daughters have to go through this with their father. Don't forget this is entirely his doing. Entirely.

(Really. all him)


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Does the OW's husband know about the affair? Does your husband's family know?

You should go to the MARRIAGE BUILDERS website for the article on exposure. I can't link it from my tablet but if you can't find it, PM me and I will get you a link.

BTW, your daughter should disown him. He has no honor or integrity. Having done what he's done, what is he not capable of doing? Find you a junk yard dog lawyer and take no prisoners. You have to do that to also protect your daughter's interests.

Good hunting, good luck and prayers,

Chap


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

If you haven't already, you really need to see an attorney and file for divorce and/or get a legal separation agreement in place. It doesn't really matter if he wants to cut off financial support, the court won't allow that. Go talk to an attorney and get the ball rolling ASAP!!


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

_Did they think they could just keep riding this fairy tale and nobody would find out and all would be happy? _

Yep, they pretty much did. 

Your STBXH and the OW Skank are not your friends. You owe them nothing. Remember that. I'd say treat them like strangers but that's not a fair comparison because most strangers are not trying to hurt you. They are.

You are going to be tempted to "be nice" Resist this urge. Lawyer up and do not dance to their tune anymore.

If you haven't disclosed to her family do so immediately. They don't get to tell you what to do anymore. Remember that.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Does the OW's H and family know about the A?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Excellent question. Make sure the OW's H knows before your daughter tells the OW's daughter. Please don't put the OW's daughter in a position of being the person who tells her father that Mom is fooling around.


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## Absurdist (Oct 10, 2014)

I can't believe that STBXH will pull tuition money from his DD23 simply because she called a spade a spade. What a toad.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Absurdist said:


> I can't believe that STBXH will pull tuition money from his DD23 simply because she called a spade a spade. What a toad.


He might not be able to get away with it. In some areas, divorce judgements include provisions that adult children still pursuing education MUST be supported by divorced parents, including paying of tuition. He may not be legally able to cut her off like that.

But it's a huge jerk move, and just puts the final nail in the coffin of showing the daughter exactly what kind of person her father is.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Good morning all - I am sorry for not responding in a while. The past week or so has been a whirlwind, both with work and social summer stuff.

Not much has changed here though. STBX did reach out to DD23 and apologize, sort of....She wanted to ask him some questions and he refuses, saying that it is between him and I. So, he shut her down and told her he would not be disrespected. At least he is holding his obligation of paying for school. DD21 is doing pretty good. She hasn't said much about it and I don't believe she has talked to him either.

I still am unsure if OH knows what his POSW has been up to. I have not yet reached out to him. I am hoping to see him Thursday. We shall see. DD23 has not said anything to the daughter either. More like everyone is just breathing for a moment. The girls have both really had a eye opener on who their father is, which is sad. But reality is what it is. They will love him but will most likely never trust or feel the same about him again.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Your daughter may ask you for details since her father won't discuss it with her. She's an adult so there's no reason not to answer her questions at this point in whatever detail she needs. If you were in R, I wouldn't advise that. I lived that life and always wished my parents had divorced because I never forgave my father for his affair (and kept my distance emotionally for the remainder of his life). However, your daughters are adults and you aren't in R so, while I wouldn't volunteer information if I were you, I certainly would answer questions that are asked. There's no reason to protect him now. If their relationship is damaged as a result of his actions, that's on him.


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