# How do I deal with this??



## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

Where do I start?

I know that my husband loves me and does not want another woman in his life -ever!

And yet, before we got married, he hid from me that he had a lust problem. I only learned about that 2-3 years into our marriage.
In short, he had a one-night stand with another woman before we got married during a time where it was tough between us because we were in different countries and it wasn't sure of we were even going to get married - well, I was sure, but for some reason, he doubted that I would move to his country, so he felt alone and rejected and then was vulnerable to the advanced of another woman.
I was so madly and blindly in love that I immediately forgave him when he cried and sobbed and confessed. 
An hour before that I would have sworn to leave a man who would cheat on me, but when it came down to it, I was too scared to loose the man I loved and from whom I knew that he loved me despite that despicable action.

Fast forward a few years, married, and we hit another crisis that had him feeling rejected by me, depressed, etc... and again-wham, he was alone with another woman - somebody who I thought was my friend and had allowed to stay over at my house - and he slept with her. 
Four days later he confessed, all heart broken, desperate, .... again, it was like a knife was being plunged into my heart, pain churning inside of me, but again - I knew he was sorry, I knew he didn't love her but me, and again, I forgave him.
I even felt sorry for the other woman - who was alone, vulnerable, in need of friends, and I was so sure that it would not happen again, that when I was out of town I was ok with them meeting up, and of course, they had sex again.

My husband was so horrfied at himself, that he actually offered a divorce since I didn't deserve that. I was so scared of being alone, of a life without him, that again, I pretty much immediately forgave...

I was an emotional and traumatized mess for months, getting excellent counselling, but being otherwise alone with that pain and confusion - not trusting any friends or family with that horrible secret. I was so embarassed to have been cheated upon, felt cheapend, delavued, ....
Also, since the other woman was larger chested than I am, I also struggeled with major anger issues towards any large chested woman I would see on the street for a long time...

Through the years, my husband would show me repeatedly how sorry he was for having hurt me this badly, what he would not give to take that pain away and how he wanted to dedicate his life to making it up to me.

Every once in a while I would have big bouts of jealously, ... sometimes they would spark into big fights, but since jealously is also like venom to any relationship, I would also fight it, put it aside and re-assure myself that my husband would not do it again since he knows how much it hurts and is stilll struggling to fully forgive himself.

In the last 8 years, we would have several moments where I would critizise his behaviour when he was out drinking, regardless of with me or without me and other friends. We would have fights about how I was a nag, party-pooper, not ever letting him have any fun, being overly serious or uptight, etc... 
My emotional scars had pretty much healed up, being only scars, and rarely acting up, but I would still have rare moments of lying in bed and feeling agony like a hot blade in my guts, especially when my husband was out late at night without me.

... 

About two months ago, we faced another major crisis during which my husband confessed that he did have sex with random women while drunk, multiple times over the past 6 years .... each and every time without protection, never ever having gotten and HIV test. Some of these women I knew, having thought of them as friends. With each of them he ceased all contacts ('nc'), so he keeps assuring me that it was 'only' lustful drunken sex, without ever an emotional attachment...

... his heart was always mine, the sex was always bad or non-memorable, and he always felt horribly bad, disgusted, ashamed, etc... afterwards.


Now I don't know how to deal with this pain and anger.
I want to forgive again, but how can I know that THIS TIME, he'll truly change, that THIS TIME, he won't do it again, and THIS TIME, my trust, after having been so carefully rebuilt won't again be trampled?

He agreed to never drink again, since every incidence over the last 6 years was alcohol related. He agreed to never again to be alone with a woman.
He also agreed to start to exercise and do activities with me that will help him ward of feelings of depression and rejection.


...I still love him, I still think he is genuine about his regret and remorse, about truly wanting to change.
But how can I protect myself from having to go through this AGAIN? What would I need to see from him, and for how long to know that this time, he is truly changing, that he is truly addressing the issues that led him to being so weak in the face of temptation (the women were always willing participants, either coming onto him or welcoming his advances).

Oh, btw, he finally got himself tested for STDs (me, too), and it came back all clean.


I know many of you will advise for me to leave him. I've considered that, too, but hearing about how common infidenlity is, it just scares me to think that I would still not have any guarantees if I were to divorce and marry somebody else.


By now, we've been married for 12 years and no children yet, but I would love to have children someday.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

So your h cheats on you repeatedly, drunken excuse, etc. And you wonder what to do and still are considering having children with him?

No offense lady, but he is not going to change. 

Why? Because he knows you accept his bad behavior.

If I were you, I'd look long and hard at the state of my marriage. Bringing children into it when it is so broken? I sure wouldn't.

I'd be looking to get out of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

You keep letting him get away with his behavior with no consequences...no matter how many times he does it. And, because of that...he will continue to do it. Why? Because there are no consequences.

No wonder you have knife piercing agony. There's no trust there.and why should there be? He can't be trusted. Repeatedly not trusted.

Leave this relationship. It is poisoning you. You could have any number of real men with values that will treat you with respect. Why keep this one? This one is bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

The only way I would even consider continuing a relationship with this person is to demand he go to AA for his alcohol problem and also see a specialist for his sexual addiction. Otherwise he is just going to do this again to you, I'm sorry. These are not isolated incidents, it is a pattern of behavior that has been going on for MANY YEARS. 

If he doesn't agree to get help, leave him. Then maybe you can have a child with a man who respects his wife and doesn't have addiction problems.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Sadly I agree with the previous posters. I don't see what's different this time that will actually cause your H to change his behavior. Even if he stops drinking, he could easily "fall off the wagon" and get drunk, have sex, then blame the alcohol again. He has his excuses for bad behavior and I would seriously question if he was drunk every single time he cheated. Perhaps he had a few drinks and it became a convenient excuse.

It sounds like your H needs therapy for some type of sexual addiction. It's like he has no impulse control and you have to wonder if he's even confessed to all of his liasons. What about oral or the random hand job. He might not count those, since it's not intercourse.

Plus, it doesn't sound like your H did anything after confessing his exploits except lament about how badly he felt or ashamed he was of his behavior. That doesn't prove he can be faithful. Changing how you behave, actions, mean much more. Don't listen to the words out of his mouth, what does his pattern of behavior and general attitude over the years tell you?

One has to wonder, why can't he stop? Is it really out of his control or does he just not want to change? It's a question only a qualified therapist can hopefully answer. Until that question is tackled, I'd start preparing for life without him. Be glad you don't have children to consider, but only what is best for you. Good luck and I'm so sorry you're in this situation.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

He's into a pattern that works for him. Cheat first, ask forgiveness later. He knows you aren't going to leave him, so there's no reason he can't cheat if the spirit moves him.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

He's a serial cehat. The worst kind. He's had sex with a lot of women, including your friends, without using protection, exposing you to the risk of STDs and HIV and a lot of betrayal.

He is who he is. Either you accept that you live in a marriage where your husband admittedly has sex with multiple women and you don't have a committed monogamous exclusive relationship or you leave.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Saffron said:


> One has to wonder, why can't he stop?


Because he doesn't want to.

Because there are no consequences for his actions.


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

Gabriel said:


> The only way I would even consider continuing a relationship with this person is to demand he go to AA for his alcohol problem and also see a specialist for his sexual addiction. Otherwise he is just going to do this again to you, I'm sorry. These are not isolated incidents, it is a pattern of behavior that has been going on for MANY YEARS.
> 
> If he doesn't agree to get help, leave him. Then maybe you can have a child with a man who respects his wife and doesn't have addiction problems.


Thank you for this Gabriel.

I am blaming myself a lot for not having insisted in real changes. I confused 'forgiving' and not wanting to be vengeful with being smart about implementing non-negotiable consequences. 

I had told him in the past to get professional help, and he had gotten some counselling, but I could not 'make' him and I escaped too quickly into the 'make believe' world that it would all go away and we can continue our lives without facing the ugly reality.

My husband really wants to to change and in the 6 years he lied to me and deceived me, he actually had made some (half-hearted) attempts by either drinking less for a period of time, going out less, switching from hard alcohol to beer only, trying to drink a large glass of water after every glass of alcohol, .... and so there would be months, if not a few years between incidences, until he 'relaxed' again and repeated the same crime.

This does not take away from the fact that he lied and deceived me the whole time, putting my health and life at risk...

He admits that much and I spoke to him this morning and am following Gabriel's advice:

I want him to go to at least some AA meetings (he actually hasn't drunken at all during 2010 to 'break free' - but only told me that he wanted to loose weight and see if he could go without alcohol for a year).
When he confessed to me about 2 months ago, he already agreed then not to drink anymore, but I had to go away on business for two weeks and we had a big fight before then so that he thought we may separate and divorce... so he thought the rule didn't count. He had a couple of drinks at that time and I do fully believe that 'nothing happened' but I am still so mad that he broke yet another promise yet again!
Just to say: I am going to ask him to go to some AA meetings even if he does not have a physical dependency on alcohol.

Also, I asked him to read and study 'every man's battle'. When he finished reading that, I want him to find somebody who is familiar with that book and have regular accountability meetings. Whether that is a counsellor or another smart, reliable male, I don't care too much.

In addition to that, I have asked him to get regular counselling for the lust problem, which also includes inapporpriate thoughts and internet porn.

I have known about him occasionally looking at internet porn and for a long time we had the internet lock on for that reason (he had asked for it). But then we had to remove it because he did need access to the internet and the lock would block many normal sites. 
As far as I know, the last he looked at porn was in February and again while I was away for business a few weeks back.

I made him promise that he would need to tell me within 24 hours if he even comes close to looking at internet porn, ie. he only starts to type certain words into the search feature, even if he then does not click 'go'.
We only have one computer at home and he is not allowed to delete the internet history.

....I know what a bad situation I am in, but I still love this man, and I do believe he wants to change and will hopefully accept the help and new rules to prove it to me. 

He is otherwise a good person, putting my needs before his, he always can make me laugh (even when I am mad at him or sad), takes me for romantic outings, ....

I am not willing to leave this marriage without giving it this chance of finally making some changes that matter. 

Plus, I feel like I need to learn to be stronger, insisting on my new rules, not being 'too nice' and letting him get away with everything. Even if our marriage does not work out, even if he fails again, I need to learn to be more insisting, assertive of my needs and requirements to even begin to have a sense that it may be worth trying to trust again.


Sorry.... I seem incapable of keeping myself short.

When my husband cheated on me, my world fell apart. Evereything changed forever. My worldview shattered into a thousand pieces and I had to re-built it, slowly, with much care and pain and lots and lots of determination.
I managed to re-built trust, pretty much completely.

But now that it has shattered again - my trust and again how I viewed our marriage and my husband, I don't know how to re-built it.
Obviously, how I rebuilt it the first time was wrong, because it still allowed my husband to keep cheating, and I was blind to it. 
I don't want a marriage where I am resigned to the fact that it may happen again, but I also don't want to get divorced. By the same token, I also don't want to be stupid and blind anymore.
So, I am trying to figure out what to pay attention to, what changes to implement that provide a safer environment to rebuilt trust while also having all the features in place that will sound loud alarm bells as soon as something is only slightly 'off'.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

DoveInTheMud, I'm sorry that you're going through this. But here comes the 2x4:

You are the perfect serial cheater's wife.

Now, by your story, you are afraid to be on your own. *I suggest YOU get some IC for your Codependency*. You have been so emotionally reliant and afraid to be without him that you have lost your identity. *This is not a man that you want to be the father of your children*. What kind of example would he be for them and what kind of example would you be setting for them for allowing this? 

He is broken, and it is not your job to fix him. He has to want to do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he says he does. He probably even cries about it. Those are crocodile tears. 

You deserve better than this man. Yes, infidelity is so common. But there are men out there who can be loyal and faithful to you. You will be alright. Don't try to fix him, get help for yourself so you can move on.


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

That is certainly something I have come to realize - that I am co-depedendent and afraid of being alone.

I'm still determined to give him another chance (I believe in that marriage should be for life and I've always felt that the most important thing was for the heart to be in the right place), but this time, I'll work hard at being more assertive, not letting excuses come into the way of why he hasn't done this or that yet, and not taking it on my own shoulders when things go wrong because of his actions. 

My fear is still that the timeframe between the instances have been 1-3 years... I don't want to wait that long to know if this time changes will be for real, but I also don't want to give up when for the first time he is agreeing to changes and started implementing them more than previously.

I've never been good at 'staying' angry, always wanting to play nice, always going the right thing, accommodating others... I am certainly not perfect and have done hurtful things myself, but divorce still scares the heck out of me, especially if there is still even only a glimmer of hope.


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## Corkey88 (Sep 16, 2010)

DoveInTheMud said:


> That is certainly something I have come to realize - that I am co-depedendent and afraid of being alone.
> 
> I'm still determined to give him another chance (I believe in that marriage should be for life and I've always felt that the most important thing was for the heart to be in the right place), but this time, I'll work hard at being more assertive, not letting excuses come into the way of why he hasn't done this or that yet, and not taking it on my own shoulders when things go wrong because of his actions.
> 
> ...


Here is even more tough love. Actions speak louder than words...always remember that. Your husband saying he loves you and acting like he loves you are very two different things. Does he show he loves you by being monogamous and faithful? Please answer that honestly and see what you come up with. Then ask him the same question.

Further, I always say that people either do or don't do some action because it involves consequences. For example, I don't drive into on-coming traffic because it is counterproductive. Your husband cheats because you let him and you never have drawn a line in the sand with him. He crosses the line, you leave, no more debate. He treats you like a dishrag and and you keep taking it. Why should he change? He lacks respect for you and you, lack respect for yourself. 

Draw a line, tell him what you demand, and explain to him the DIRE consequences of crossing that line.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Your first priority right now should be seeking help for yourself. Seek IC for the codependency issues you have. You might find that your mind will change. Don't make up your mind about reconciling with him yet. Allow yourself to get the treatment that YOU need before making the decision to stay or go. It's time to think of yourself and your needs, not his. Accept that you are codependent and that you need help. Find an IC and make an appointment today.


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

Thank you all for your input. I have a counselling appointment in 2 days for MC and IC appointment with a different person for IC.

Hopefully these counsellors are any good. I hear so much about how counselling can help, but also how bad counsellors can mess you up.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If you keep doing the same, you will get the same. 

He knows he can cheat as much as he wants and with whoever he wants because you tolerate it and have zero boundaries. He gets to have it all and you get to have a serial cheat for a husband w/ no respect for you.


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> If you keep doing the same, you will get the same.
> .


:iagree:

And that is why I am here. I want to learn what I need to change, what I need to ask of him and see him doing to know it's going to be different.

My H actually quoted to me several times in regards to another matter "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome".

This is what has already changed

1. We have separate bedrooms now, and I actually enjoy having this private alone space, especially because we do still spend a lot of time together, and I would otherwise not be able to force myself to be alone (It's already established that I have codependency issues). I find myself thinking and feeling differently when I am alone than when I am with other people.

2. He agreed not to have any alcohol and has been upholding this for the past 2 weeks. He accepted that this would be for life and not just temporarily.

3. He called and confirmed an appointment for MC, as well as looking into SAA for himself.

4. We started to do more fun outdoor activities together, which I had been trying for him to do more of with me ever since we got married.


Since he had never any EAs, and the instances of infidentlity would be spaced, I am not sure if using other tools would make sense like I read about here in regards to cellphone tracking, checking e-mails, etc.... I guess the only other thing that makes sense is to maintain some monitoring in regards to internet porn, and he does not get to go our with friends (which he hasn't done in about 6 months anyway), unless I know them and trust them - i.e. at least one of those guys should know about his situation and hold him accountable. - but again, every instance in the last 6 years was alcohol related, so my H keeps assuring me that with him not drinking, he'll stay 'conscious' enough not to engange in that kind of despicable behaviour.

He tells me that in one instance, he was so drunk that he didn't remember how he got into the woman's apartment. But when he came to, 'waking' up, naked, on top of her, 'performing the deed' he immediately stood up, got dressed and left ...

Now that does not make the cheating any better, but it's because of that that I forgave him so quickly, knowing that he didn't actually like what he was doing and hated himself for that.

... and then the anger wakes up in me that it still didn't stop him from drinking any earlier, that he kept is secret from me for years, and risked my health and my life.

... I know I still have a lot of healing to do, and I am so sick and tired of this pain, especially because I had to do that already 8 years ago ......


My husband is showing me a lot of understanding for my pain, saying all the right things about letting me be angry, etc... he knows he messed up ... and despite my fears that somebody who had been doing this for the past 10+ years is unlikely to make a complete change now, I still find myself unable to shake that hope, to cling to the belief that yes, it is possible, that our marriage is salvageable...

Getting back to Jellybean: Yes, I can't keep doing the same things. I want to change and I want things to change. I don't want my marriage to be the same. I want a new marriage, a better marriage, hopefully though with the same husband, but a different person (meaning he'll change into a better, new him).

Please keep writing me your thoughts and advice. Even if it;s not what I want to hear, I am doing a lot of thinking and value your opinion. You guys know what you are talking about.


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

We finally went to our first MC session, and he has started to read several books that would be helpful in changing those aspects about himself. He also committed to IC, and to doing more things that A-make me feel more loved and connected, and B- that he needs to stay mentally and emotionally strong and healthy to prevent those situations in the first place, and to be more resistant in a potentially tempting situation.

I am very cautiously hopefuly, still fighting against fear and anger, but want to stay strong, vigilant, assertive, and will keep you all posted on further developments.


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## disabled (Jun 21, 2011)

DoveInTheMud said:


> We finally went to our first MC session, and he has started to read several books that would be helpful in changing those aspects about himself. He also committed to IC, and to doing more things that A-make me feel more loved and connected, and B- that he needs to stay mentally and emotionally strong and healthy to prevent those situations in the first place, and to be more resistant in a potentially tempting situation.
> 
> I am very cautiously hopefuly, still fighting against fear and anger, but want to stay strong, vigilant, assertive, and will keep you all posted on further developments.


That is great, I am happy for you two to engage in Marriage counseling. It makes alot of sense to build a new marriage, and a stronger marriage. Building a marriage with Jesus will ensure no foul ups. I hope and pray for the best marriage you can and will have. Must recognize the enemy, the enemy is alcohol, depression, fear, and lying. If the enemy is kicked out, and healing is being focused on, you and your husband will grow together and be strong. 

I am hoping for the best to come. 


Disabled


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## DoveInTheMud (May 25, 2011)

Thank you, 'disabled', - but I must disagree with you on that because we're building the new marriage with Jesus no foul ups can happen. They are less likely, but we're still faulty human beings who have to stay on the look-out.

We are now working on several fronts:
My husband is working on keeping himself physically and emotionally healthy, and also doing more activities that meet my needs.
I am working on resolving my co-dependency issues.
Plus, we're addressing a myrad of other issues that had alway been bothing us during our long message.

Overall, listening to the feedback from our counsellor and the few friends who know, we're doing very well, but there are still moments full of pain and anger.... which are now freely, but caringly expressed and he makes time to listen to me, to hug me, giving me the emotional space while also letting me know that he is fully committed to making this work, and doing it right.


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