# Is my H being passive aggressive or something else?



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I have an ongoing thread on another board, and I wanted to get some wider views on my H's behavior.

The description of his behavior is here and if you look at the whole page, a couple of posts prior I explain a situation that happened yesterday where I tried to be affectionate and close to him and he made a joke out of it.

It is an ongoing theme with him, rejecting my affections so that instance was pretty isolated as I tend not to try any more for fear of being rejected, which I can be 99% sure he will do.

It has been thrown up that he is being passive aggressive and I was wondering if anyone could have a quick read and throw some thoughts out there as to whether he *is* being PA or something else? Because whatever it is, it is driving me crazy.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Sounds like he is being a jerk. Get you some books on people who are passive/aggressive and how to deal with them. Maybe it can give you some better insight.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Sounds pretty PA to me. What an ass. Is he PA in other ways, like saying something degrading about you but claim he was "just joking" when you protest? Does he "forget" to do things you need him to do (but never forgets to do things HE wants to do)? Does he blame you and everyone else for his problems? 

Here's a book I believe Pink Lady suggested in one of my threads. I haven't read it yet but it looks like good info: Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man: Coping with Hidden Aggression - From the Bedroom to the Boardroom: Scott Wetzler: 9780671870744: Amazon.com: Books


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

WW
I've just received the book "Living with the Passive Aggressive Man (coping with hidden agression from the bedroom to the boardroom) by Scott Wetlzer - it's like someone just turned the lights on.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't see PA much in the thread you linked. I read the page you linked about maybe 4-5 pages back, and this is what I see....


It sounds to me like you're pretty negative about stuff in general and he has withdrawn a great deal because he doesn't want to experience your displeasure. If he is affectionate toward you, it forces him to open up and let down his guard, but it's not safe for him to do that because he's afraid you'll find reasons to be unhappy. 

He doesn't know if you'll be happy or unhappy if he goes and drinks with his male family members. He doesn't know if you'll tell him he's not doing enough when he tries to show affection. He doesn't know if you'll get mad at him for not doing a good enough job of watching the kids. 

You said in one of your posts there that he feels like you're trying to change him, and you don't believe you are. You think you just want him to do things the way he used to, yet he says the same about you. 

The problem is, you can't "unlearn" what you know about each other today. So you have to find ways to be happy with what IS real and present in your lives. LOOK for the good, and own your level of happiness or unhappiness. He cannot make you happy or miserable, but YOU absolutely determine what you dwell on! If you dwell on his shortcomings, you'll only reinforce the idea that he falls short. If you dwell on those tiny successes and find five of those for each negative, your marriage will be on a very happy path instead.


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

WW
Just an excerpt - am only on page 18

"this book is for women like you, who deal with, live with, have been hurt by and have hope for this unique character: the passive-aggressive man. If you love such a man, then you know him as someone who never seems to love you back fully; he promises but rarely delivers. He sees himself as a casualty of recurrent misunderstandings, a bundle of intricately overlapping layers of behaviours no one can penetrate.

What makes his personality confusing is that he's passive, coaxing, elusive, but also aggressively resistant to you, to intimacy, to responsibility and reason".

I have no idea if you H is PA, and whether or not "labelling" does us any good. All I know right now in my current situation is I've picked up a book that sounds like it was written entirely about my H! - the lack of reasoning, taking responsibility, being totally and utterly incapable of seeing my, or any other person's perspective and having any empathy for that - "frustrated" doesn't come close! 

Throughout my own marriage, in "general" if I'm able to detach a little and step back, he'll move forward (even if this is a very subtle move) - I never get anywhere by constantly being on the case - stepping back and trying to care less and do more of your own thing is also a way to protect your own sanity......

Eckart Tolle says we have 3 choices when unhappy: 1. Remove ourselves from the situ. 2. Change it (a bit harder!), or 3. Accept.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

I wish that I had more time to read through your whole threads. That being said I do have a few thoughts.

First of all, yes, your husband is acting in a passive aggressive manner. But that does not mean that he IS passive aggressive by nature. We ALL use passive aggressive tendencies when we want to avoid confrontation at some point. You even do it by restraining yourself from being affectionate. You may rationalize it by saying you don't want to be rejected but if you are honest with yourself there's probably alot of "giving him what he asked for" mentality. ie he doesn't want to be affectionate so I'll show him just what not being affectionate is like! Or even that you'll somehow force him to take more initiative if you withhold your affection from him. That is passive aggressive.

Secondly, alot of men view physical touch of any sort as a prelude to sex. For alot of guys it's inexorably linked. I have read stories about husbands who are no longer attracted physically to their wives and refuse to kiss them because they don't want their wives to get the wrong idea and want sex when all their wives want is affection. I have read threads where husbands are afraid to initiate sex or react to what they percieve as advances because of erectile dysfunction. There are also threads where the wife feels like she can't give her husband any non-sex related affection because he always twists it into sex and she doesn't want to be seen as simply a body for his pleasure. I read the post at the beginning of the thread and it does seem that there is a little sexual dysfunction between you two. (Sorry if I'm making you uncomfortable) Because I haven't read through the entire thread I don't know how well you have addressed this issue but it does seem that there are still unresolved issues there.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback guys.

So the consensus is mixed. My feeling is he does at times act in a PA way though I would not at this point go so far as to say he *is* PA because in many ways he is not.

To give a very brief background... Year before last I caught H behaving in an inappropriate way with a co worker. It had not gone so far as to be a fully blown EA but broke the trust between me and him. I had thought previously we were pretty strong so it was a real shock to me.

We dealt with this through MC which helped some.

Then around a year later, he suddenly started rejecting me when I initiated sex. This *really* threw me as prior to this I was happy to initiate and certainly did so at least 50% of the time if not more. He would shut me down completely, starting at least 3 times a week, and be really nasty about why he did not want to have sex.

Over the next six months or so this continued. I started to ask less and less untill my confidence had just crumbled and he appeared to care not. We were not sexless by any means, simply put, we ONLY had sex when he decided he wanted it. I was a mess and said I was no longer going to initiate or approach him for sex and that I hoped he would eventually "get" the damage he had caused and try to help mend things.

Since then I have not initiated any more. He actually denies this EVER happened and claims he cannot recall any except a small number of times when he had a good reason and certainly cannot recall ever saying hurtfull reasons.

He has not been interested in doing anything to repair this and has happily carried on. He does not appear to be bothered that his W does not feel comfortable enough with him to initiate, nor does he consider that I have sexual feelings at times other than when he wants sex ( not that I expect him to read my mind.)

At the start of the year I embarked on a different path which involved separating from him emotionally and focussing entirely on me and mending myself. It is still early days and I to and fro, though I have made some progress allready by way of breaking my codependency and rebuilding "me."

One of the things I realized a while ago was that he rejects any attempt I make at initiating non sexual affection. He has not allways been like this, it feels like all these issues came up in the same time period at differing points.

I no longer initiate talks with him in an attempt to discuss our relationship or get him to see my POV, because simply put, it does not do anything. I am working on talking less and showing more by way of action. That is what is outlined in my other thread.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> I don't see PA much in the thread you linked. I read the page you linked about maybe 4-5 pages back, and this is what I see....
> 
> 
> It sounds to me like you're pretty negative about stuff in general and he has withdrawn a great deal because he doesn't want to experience your displeasure. If he is affectionate toward you, it forces him to open up and let down his guard, but it's not safe for him to do that because he's afraid you'll find reasons to be unhappy.
> ...


Yeah. At this point I am *very* negative. This comes at a downward swing in my work on myself. I have stalled a little and ma feeling very frustrated that H is not responding to any of the changes I have made. He literally has told me that everything bar his EA is *my * problem, and therefore requires no input or work from him.

I feel pretty resentfull. I feel I cannot win. Be the happy shiny wife and he walks all over me. Be miserable and he says there is nothing to love *shrugs*


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## Ellie5 (Mar 12, 2013)

Definitely sounds PA to me, get the book at least for some light relief. I really do feel for you WW, please know you're not alone though  Like you can "never win", just exasperating all the time. Step up the work on you and redirect some focus away from him.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Yeah. At this point I am *very* negative. This comes at a downward swing in my work on myself. I have stalled a little and ma feeling very frustrated that H is not responding to any of the changes I have made. He literally has told me that everything bar his EA is *my * problem, and therefore requires no input or work from him.
> 
> I feel pretty resentfull. I feel I cannot win. Be the happy shiny wife and he walks all over me. Be miserable and he says there is nothing to love *shrugs*


I think you would benefit from recognizing what I said above: Dwelling on the negatives only strengthens your negativity. 

If you feel like he walks over you when you're the happy, shiny wife, then that means you need to set boundaries to prevent getting walked over. It doesn't mean you should keep focusing on the negatives. 

I know that it's easier to say than to do. 

You're on the right track with taking care of yourself and detaching. I think the key will be for you to be a shiny, happy, PERSON with or without him. He'll get back to drooling over you when you find that sweet spot.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

I feel like it should be asked (I'm surprised no one has asked already)...are you 100% sure that the "inappropriate behavior" with his coworker was nothing more than that? Is there a chance he's having an EA or PA, hence the drastic change in his interest in sex with you?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Why does that surprise you? Haven't you already addressed this? I would figure that you have come to a conclusion already after all this time.


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## Fledgling (Feb 3, 2013)

walkingwounded said:


> Thanks for the feedback guys.
> 
> So the consensus is mixed. My feeling is he does at times act in a PA way though I would not at this point go so far as to say he *is* PA because in many ways he is not.
> 
> ...


I think intent matters in cases like this and complete honesty with one's own self. Also being aware of the pitfalls of the actions not words methods. If you don't say _anything _your husband's response is going to be "I'm not a mind reader and it was your responsibility to communicate with me." It won't matter to him that he helped to produce an environment where you didn't think that that was possible.

I am slowly (VERY SLOWLY) learning in my own marriage to evaluate what, exactly, I want out of my relationship with my husband. It might sound stupid but the other day it snowed heavily. I snowblowed in the middle of the storm. After the storm was over my husband decided to snowblow the rest. Except the walkway. On which I twisted my ankle. I was royally peeved at him for not taking the extra half a minute to blow out the walkway (after I had blowed out the drive and walkway earlier so there was less for him to do) and I came in completely peeved and just "knew" that if I said anything he would turn it around on me. Which made me angrier. It did wind up being a fight. But it was a fight over my _anger _rather than a fight over the walkway not being blowed out. was my ultimate goal to intimidate my husband with my anger or passive aggressive behaviour to get him to admit that he erred (a powerplay) or did I just want him to blowout the walkway next time and feel bad that my ankle was hurt? The fight between my husband and I occured because I had him backing me into a mental corner before I even opened my mouth. And so I came out at him swinging. There was definately a better way to handle it because my goal wasn't a powerplay or to shame him. 

I guess the whole point to my story is not to let your husband's previous behaviour back you into mental wall which you feel like you have to push back against. Hard I know, but it's something you should be aware of.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Why does that surprise you? Haven't you already addressed this? I would figure that you have come to a conclusion already after all this time.


Kathy, I'm confused...or maybe you are(?) Are you replying to my comment above yours? If so, perhaps you are confusing my user name with the OPs.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Waking up to life said:


> Kathy, I'm confused...or maybe you are(?) Are you replying to my comment above yours? If so, perhaps you are confusing my user name with the OPs.


My confusion! Sorry!


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

He is being PA. He is rejecting your affection without claiming that. He doesn't feel like expressing love physically but he can't come out and say it. And it could be that he is trying to punish you. 
I'm so sorry. I hate reading these threads because I know what it feels like and I just hate seeing other people go through the emotional torture I went through. 
To me it seems like he has a lot of resentment and anger. 
Most of the time it's not even about the wife, it's about life, childhood, disappointment with jobs and money. 
What happened prior to his EA? How did you find out and has he shown remorse? Are you sure that's all it was?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

KathyBatesel said:


> I think you would benefit from recognizing what I said above: Dwelling on the negatives only strengthens your negativity.
> 
> If you feel like he walks over you when you're the happy, shiny wife, then that means you need to set boundaries to prevent getting walked over. It doesn't mean you should keep focusing on the negatives.
> 
> ...


This in bold is what I am aiming for. I have gotten a little down of late so have stalled. It is very, VERY hard to let go of my resentment over him battering my esteem then expecting me to carry on as if everything is cool without even so much as trying to help mend it. I *know* it is holding me back, I understand how, but I am having trouble with it still.



Fledgling said:


> I think intent matters in cases like this and complete honesty with one's own self. Also being aware of the pitfalls of the actions not words methods. If you don't say _anything _your husband's response is going to be "I'm not a mind reader and it was your responsibility to communicate with me." It won't matter to him that he helped to produce an environment where you didn't think that that was possible.
> 
> I am slowly (VERY SLOWLY) learning in my own marriage to evaluate what, exactly, I want out of my relationship with my husband. It might sound stupid but the other day it snowed heavily. I snowblowed in the middle of the storm. After the storm was over my husband decided to snowblow the rest. Except the walkway. On which I twisted my ankle. I was royally peeved at him for not taking the extra half a minute to blow out the walkway (after I had blowed out the drive and walkway earlier so there was less for him to do) and I came in completely peeved and just "knew" that if I said anything he would turn it around on me. Which made me angrier. It did wind up being a fight. But it was a fight over my _anger _rather than a fight over the walkway not being blowed out. was my ultimate goal to intimidate my husband with my anger or passive aggressive behaviour to get him to admit that he erred (a powerplay) or did I just want him to blowout the walkway next time and feel bad that my ankle was hurt? The fight between my husband and I occured because I had him backing me into a mental corner before I even opened my mouth. And so I came out at him swinging. There was definately a better way to handle it because my goal wasn't a powerplay or to shame him.
> 
> I guess the whole point to my story is not to let your husband's previous behaviour back you into mental wall which you feel like you have to push back against. Hard I know, but it's something you should be aware of.


I like you am analyzing my own motivations and behaviors, particularly at times like you mention. It has been an eye opener. I do not want it to appear that I put the "blame" for our dynamic solely on his shoulders because I do not. I know areas where I am weak, boundaries are one. 

The "actions not words" thing I get. I know it is a hazard to just not say the words... However IME talking is where we fall down. For his own reasons he either does not listen or does not digest or remember stuff I say. It has caused no end of arguments from trivial stuff like appointments to major relationship issues. A regular poster actually posted a really insightfull post on my thread in to how men can view this which was usefull to me. That they filter through stuff. H, well I do not know if he even does that. The only thing he seems to take any notice of is the "I have had enough, I don't love you any more" which was said in a moment of pure desperation and frustration.

So the jury is out here on whether to keep reminding him of stuff. I figure he is an adult, I should not have to take on the responsibility of essentially nagging him. I am not his mother, I say it once then I am done with it.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

diwali123 said:


> He is being PA. He is rejecting your affection without claiming that. He doesn't feel like expressing love physically but he can't come out and say it. And it could be that he is trying to punish you.
> I'm so sorry. I hate reading these threads because I know what it feels like and I just hate seeing other people go through the emotional torture I went through.
> To me it seems like he has a lot of resentment and anger.
> Most of the time it's not even about the wife, it's about life, childhood, disappointment with jobs and money.
> ...


diwali, me and H actually spoke about this earlier today.

He says he does not know why he does it. And I think he believes that. He does say that at times he feels smothered and that I have picked a bad time and gave examples. OK that is fine. The rest of the time he does not know. Says he realizes how it looks from the outside and that it looks bad but right now that is all he has to offer.


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## Waking up to life (Nov 29, 2012)

Both diwali123 and I have asked and I don't see where you've answered: regarding the "almost EA" he had with the coworker, are you sure that's all there was to it? Was he remorseful anout it? Are you 100% sure he's not currently having an EA or PA? It seems very relevant due to the fact that he has drastically changed his behavior regarding sex and affection towards you.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Waking up to life said:


> Both diwali123 and I have asked and I don't see where you've answered: regarding the "almost EA" he had with the coworker, are you sure that's all there was to it? Was he remorseful anout it? Are you 100% sure he's not currently having an EA or PA? It seems very relevant due to the fact that he has drastically changed his behavior regarding sex and affection towards you.


Sorry I missed that.

Yes that was all there was to it. I had to resort to some duplicitous tactics to find this out once and for all as it was driving me crazy not knowing for certain but I got confirmation that it was never anything more.

He was remorseful. We did MC which helped. I never truly felt he got what it felt like to be betrayed, but then how would he?

AFAIK he is not having an EA or PA. I do keep track of him. It is a logical suggestion I know given what I have written. But to the very best of my knowledge he is not... and I do check regularly.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Says he realizes how it looks from the outside and that it looks bad but right now that is all he has to offer.


I'm changing my answer.

In the book surrendered wife it is suggested that a man will subconsciously repeat a behavior until it is accepted by his wife. Kind of a twist on love me as I am without changes concept.

It could apply here or he could be a jerk. 

Verdict is still out.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Sounds like he is being a jerk.


This is classic and I love it!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> This in bold is what I am aiming for. I have gotten a little down of late so have stalled. It is very, VERY hard to let go of my resentment over him battering my esteem then expecting me to carry on as if everything is cool without even so much as trying to help mend it. I *know* it is holding me back, I understand how, but I am having trouble with it still.


 
Well, you can try re-framing that resentment, because nobody can treat you poorly without your consent. You let him do this to you, and you KNOW that this was a misjudgment that was based on trying to do the right thing. There's no fault in that. We've all been there. You have to decide to forgive your SELF in order to forgive him.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

PA would be to give you the affection you wanted and then resent it later. He's doing the opposite. He's not into you and can't help himself from showing it. Then he tries to cover it up with jokes or by making fun of your need for affection. This is classic cover up behavior. His technique displays a lack of respect for you as well. He may not want to leave you for a number of reasons, but I think your husband is interested in someone else. Sorry.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Enginerd said:


> PA would be to give you the affection you wanted and then resent it later. He's doing the opposite. He's not into you and can't help himself from showing it. Then he tries to cover it up with jokes or by making fun of your need for affection. This is classic cover up behavior. His technique displays a lack of respect for you as well. He may not want to leave you for a number of reasons, but I think your husband is interested in someone else. Sorry.


I kinda addressed the him not being in to me. He said if he was not in to me, then he would not be having sex with me. And so have said other guys who have commented.

But then what you say also makes sense to me. I mean, I am not sure that he is interested in someone else because tbh I do not know who he comes in to contact with that he would feel that way about. But he is adamant this is not the case and he find me attractive.


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## pink_lady (Dec 1, 2012)

walkingwounded said:


> Then around a year later, he suddenly started rejecting me when I initiated sex. This *really* threw me as prior to this I was happy to initiate and certainly did so at least 50% of the time if not more. He would shut me down completely, starting at least 3 times a week, and be really nasty about why he did not want to have sex.
> 
> Over the next six months or so this continued. I started to ask less and less untill my confidence had just crumbled and he appeared to care not. We were not sexless by any means, simply put, we ONLY had sex when he decided he wanted it. I was a mess and said I was no longer going to initiate or approach him for sex and that I hoped he would eventually "get" the damage he had caused and try to help mend things.
> 
> Since then I have not initiated any more. He actually denies this EVER happened and claims he cannot recall any except a small number of times when he had a good reason and certainly cannot recall ever saying hurtfull reasons.


I haven't read through all the posts here but withholding sex, causing a partner to feel off balance and insecure, and denying things he did or events that happened (gaslighting) are all classic passive-aggressive behavior patterns. 

Also, as someone mentioned, his behavior likely has nothing to do with you- he's simply acting out ingrained issues that have been there since childhood. If he is P-A, you MUST set and enforce boundaries, but you cannot help him or change him. Only he - with a qualified therapist depending on how severe his issues are - can do that.

By all means, get the book. I found it very helpful.


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## Enginerd (May 24, 2011)

walkingwounded said:


> I kinda addressed the him not being in to me. He said if he was not in to me, then he would not be having sex with me. And so have said other guys who have commented.
> 
> But then what you say also makes sense to me. I mean, I am not sure that he is interested in someone else because tbh I do not know who he comes in to contact with that he would feel that way about. But he is adamant this is not the case and he find me attractive.


Keep in mind that some men can be physically attracted to women they don't actually like. Is he a considerate lover?
You mentioned he had an mild EA so I factored that into my response. It's possible he's just uncomfortable with intimacy, depressed or lacks emotional intelligence due to his childhood.


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