# Husband's family excluding me, he thinks it's normal.



## spicynug

I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation. 
So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.

The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all. 
My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it. 

It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them. 

I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters. 
Am I overreacting?


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## Numb26

No you are not. That was a slap in the face!


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## Diana7

Wow, that is appalling. Once my children married I would never ever exclude their partners from anything. Your MIL is being very selfish and clearly hasn't accepted any of her Children's partners as being her family, and that includes her grandchildren it seems.
Personally in your husband's position I wouldn't go unless you were included. Especially if it meant you had no holiday together.

How long are they going for?
How do his sisters and their husbands feel about it?


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## Livvie

No. This would make me question if I wanted to remain married to this person. A year in, no kids, I might be out. It doesn't bode well for the future.


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## spicynug

Diana7 said:


> Wow, that is appalling. Once my children married I would never ever exclude their partners from anything. Your MIL is being very selfish and clearly hasn't accepted any of her Children's partners as being her family, and that includes her grandchildren it seems.
> Personally in your husband's position I wouldn't go unless you were included. Especially if it meant you had no holiday together.
> 
> How long are they going for?
> How do his sisters and their husbands feel about it?


They are going for 10 nights. I'm not sure how the husbands feel as they haven't spoken up around me. I have only discussed my feelings with my husband not his family. I think I'm the odd man out on how I feel left out. And I'm the newest addition so I would feel too awkward saying this to his parents.


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## bobert

You are not overreacting. This situation is pretty messed up. 

It's totally fine for parents to want a bit of alone time with their grown and married kids, and for the kids to want the same, but not like this. 

Your husband is an ass, so are your inlaws. 

Is his family the type to disown him or something if he doesn't play along?


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## spicynug

bobert said:


> You are not overreacting. This situation is pretty messed up.
> 
> It's totally fine for parents to want a bit of alone time with their grown and married kids, and for the kids to want the same, but not like this.
> 
> Your husband is an ass, so are your inlaws.
> 
> Is his family the type to disown him or something if he doesn't play along?


No, they would probably hold it against me though. Since I seem to be the only one that feels it is a weird situation. But that doesn't matter because my husband has no intention of not going, he thinks it's a normal thing to do.


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## Diana7

spicynug said:


> They are going for 10 nights. I'm not sure how the husbands feel as they haven't spoken up around me. I have only discussed my feelings with my husband not his family. I think I'm the odd man out on how I feel left out. And I'm the newest addition so I would feel too awkward saying this to his parents.


Have his sisters said anything?
If he refuses not to go, I would book myself for a really nice holiday. With family members or a friend if you prefer.


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## spicynug

Diana7 said:


> Have his sisters said anything?
> If he refuses not to go, I would book myself for a really nice holiday. With family members or a friend if you prefer.


They're excited to go, they don't think anything of it.


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## bobert

spicynug said:


> No, they would probably hold it against me though. Since I seem to be the only one that feels it is a weird situation. But that doesn't matter because my husband has no intention of not going, he thinks it's a normal thing to do.


Is this the first time he has chosen his family over you? 

Is there any room for compromise? Like, he only goes for 5 days so you can have time together as well?


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## Livvie

spicynug said:


> They're excited to go, they don't think anything of it.


I bet for them, this trip doesn’t mean a trip with their spouse had to be canceled with leaving no vacation time for any trip with their spouse. Different circumstances.


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## spicynug

bobert said:


> Is this the first time he has chosen his family over you?
> 
> Is there any room for compromise? Like, he only goes for 5 days so you can have time together as well?


This is really the first time it has been obvious. But he does pretty much do anything they ask. He doesn't see any issue with the trip. For him there is no need for any compromise.


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## Openminded

You’re getting a really good look at how your life with those people will go for many years to come. They all think it’s normal. It definitely wouldn’t be normal for me and I doubt it would be for many people. You have to decide if you can live your life that way because your husband has made his choice in who he plans to side with and he’s not likely to change it. You don’t feel like his priority because you aren’t. And he’s good with that. Think about that for awhile.


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## bobert

spicynug said:


> This is really the first time it has been obvious. But he does pretty much do anything they ask.


This is something that will most likely never change. You will need to decide if you can spend the rest of your life in the number two slot (or lower) on his priority list.


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## Anastasia6

@spicynug I see you've been married only a year but have no idea what your dynamic is but this it not normal and I feel bad for you. I can tell you I never would have married anyone who had so little regard for me and put their family above me.

I can say this would be major trouble in my marriage. This shows very little regard for your feelings or wanting to spend time with you.

I'm sorry. I wish I had some advice but your husband isn't likely to change. It seems you must have had some indication how little he values you compared to his family before marriage.


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## GaLaxya

You are absolutely entitled to be unhappy. The MIL seems to be dominanting her(!) family. She will later try to extend this domination over your children and all of her grand children. It is going to be hell, if you decide to give her grand children = more family...

Your husband like his father and the rest of the 'family' seem to be emotionally depenend on her well being. 

Famuly includes the spouses of your children, hence you. 
She doesn't want the family around, she wants those people she knows she has absolut control over. She is going to be a MIL from hell st least once you give birth to the first grandchild.

I go even further by asking, why doesn't she go on the trip just with her husband?
It looks like this was not the initial idea. I might be wrong, but the parents might have problems with intimacy in their relationship. It might be, that she was using the children already when they were younger to keep her husband at distance. I order to not be alone or to intimate with him.? 
The children have been raised as integrated subjects of their relationship. They grew sensisitive to her needs and therefore are obeying. Otherwise the 'family' would break apart. 

This is also why the MIL doesn't see the spouses of her children as part of family. 

Family in her world are only those people who have a purppse to her and therefore contribute to keeping this structure she created alive. You as outsiders are not of use to her directly. Even worse, you are actually a threat as you could trigger her children to break out. 

Her husband is not blood related to her (or is he???), why is he considered family? 
She is a narcissist. She twists and turns things the way it serves her own purposes. 

You might have had other disturbing experiences with her before or already felt unwanted or rejected by her due to things she said or done in the past.

It would be stupid to advice or expect you to leave your husband. I want say this. But I tell you, weather or not I am right with my additional speculations - simply based on this little extract of your husband and his family, I can tell you: 
YOU GOT YOURSELF A MONSTER IN LAW!!! 

You have to make your own decision.


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## spicynug

GaLaxya said:


> You are absolutely entitled to be unhappy. The MIL seems to be dominanting her(!) family. She will later try to extend this domination over your children and all of her grand children. It is going to be hell, if you decide to give her grand children = more family...
> 
> Your husband like his father and the rest of the 'family' seem to be emotionally depenend on her well being.
> 
> Famuly includes the spouses of your children, hence you.
> She doesn't want the family around, she wants those people she knows she has absolut control over. She is going to be a MIL from hell st least once you give birth to the first grandchild.
> 
> I go even further by asking, why doesn't she go on the trip just with her husband?
> It looks like this was not the initial idea. I might be wrong, but the parents might have problems with intimacy in their relationship. It might be, that she was using the children already when they were younger to keep her husband at distance. I order to not be alone or to intimate with him.?
> The children have been raised as integrated subjects of their relationship. They grew sensisitive to her needs and therefore are obeying. Otherwise the 'family' would break apart.
> 
> This is also why the MIL doesn't see the spouses of her children as part of family.
> 
> Family in her world are only those people who have a purppse to her and therefore contribute to keeping this structure she created alive. You as outsiders are not of use to her directly. Even worse, you are actually a threat as you could trigger her children to break out.
> 
> Her husband is not blood related to her (or is he???), why is he considered family?
> She is a narcissist. She twists and turns things the way it serves her own purposes.
> 
> You might have had other disturbing experiences with her before or already felt unwanted or rejected by her due to things she said or done in the past.
> 
> It would be stupid to advice or expect you to leave your husband. I want say this. But I tell you, weather or not I am right with my additional speculations - simply based on this little extract of your husband and his family, I can tell you:
> YOU GOT YOURSELF A MONSTER IN LAW!!!
> 
> You have to make your own decision.


The original trip was MIL and FIL and another couple, their friends. But the other couple couldn't go so they thought of my husband and I as we don't have children and we love to travel. But now it's family only. I'm not super close to my family, I mean we see each other and love each other but me and my siblings are all very independent. My husbands family are all very close. So, I didn't know if that's why I didn't get this trip idea and thought it was strange. I think they just see themselves as the 'main characters' and the rest of us are just supporting roles.


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## EI

You don’t have a mother-in-law, you have a monster in-law, and your husband is spineless. How long did you and your husband date before you got married? What was your relationship with his parents and his sisters like before this?

If your mother-in-law gets her way this time around, then what’s to stop her from doing it every year; meaning you and your husband never get to go on a vacation together?

It’s completely unacceptable that they invited you, then disinvited you, and your husband agreed to it all, before even discussing it with you. But, it’s absolutely reprehensible that this is costing you your own planned vacation with your husband next year.

I’m both a daughter-in-law and a mother-in-law, so I’m sensitive to both sides of this coin. I would never exclude any of our children or their families from any type of family vacation. My in-laws would never exclude any of their children or our families from any major plans of theirs.

This isn’t like a fishing trip where all of the men in the family go to a cabin by the lake for a couple of days and fish, or an all women shopping trip in the mountains just before the holidays. This is a “family vacation” that is excluding the family. 🤦🏼‍♀️


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## Livvie

GaLaxya said:


> It would be stupid to advice or expect you to leave your husband.


No it's not. It's actually smart advice. 

Be careful how you label other posters' advice please.


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## Anastasia6

Yes the sad part is that it would seem silly to divorce over such but I can tell you I would never stand for this. But even the husband changing his mind after I lay it out for him would probably not appease me because it is the underlying dynamic that is problematic and going to be problematic most likely forever.

You see she does sound like the type that is a monster MIL and further if you had children she'd probably expect your children and husband to leave you at home and go on the vacation. Your real problem though is your husband. He sees this a normal and when you voiced your unhappiness he's just decided to do it anyway and the problem is with you. 

That means he's dismissive of your feelings which every poster seems to think your feelings are the normal ones. But normal doesn't really matter. What matters is being in a relationship where two people WANT to be together and make each other happy. They CHOOSE each other over others and respect each other. It doesn't really sound like he's doing that. 

So I'll be the first to say. You are in for a life time of heart ache here. The closer you live to the in-laws the more the heart ache will be. So you need to decide is this how YOU want to be treated? How often is this likely to come up (as in how close does she live). What would happen if her husband died? Is your husband the first line of defense? Is there a future where this woman lives with you?

I am usually for two people working their issues out. According to you he doesn't see and issue and doesn't wish to work on it. I"m just passionate enough that while he was in Hawaii I'd be seeing a lawyer. Sorry but I wish you could glimpse your future.


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## Openminded

Your MIL isn’t the first to view in-laws as not real family. Many people feel that way but they usually aren’t as obvious about it as she is. The important thing for you to remember is that she isn’t changing and your husband’s on her side.


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## spicynug

EI said:


> You don’t have a mother-in-law, you have a monster in-law, and your husband is spineless. How long did you and your husband date before you got married? What was your relationship with his parents and his sisters like before this?
> 
> If your mother-in-law gets her way this time around, then what’s to stop her from doing it every year; meaning you and your husband never get to go on a vacation together?
> 
> It’s completely unacceptable that they invited you, then disinvited you, and your husband agreed to it all, before even discussing it with you. But, it’s absolutely reprehensible that this is costing you your own planned vacation with your husband next year.
> 
> I’m both a daughter-in-law and a mother-in-law, so I’m sensitive to both sides of this coin. I would never exclude any of our children or their families from any type of family vacation. My in-laws would never exclude any of their children or our families from any major plans of theirs.
> 
> This isn’t like a fishing trip where all of the men in the family go to a cabin by the lake for a couple of days and fish, or an all women shopping trip in the mountains just before the holidays. This is a “family vacation” that is excluding the family. 🤦🏼‍♀️


We dated for 4 years before getting married. I've never felt shunned before and we have always been cordial towards each other. He is the baby of the family so there's a little bit of that annoying dynamic, he has grown up a lot since moving out though. He knows how I feel about it and he says he feels bad but obviously not bad enough to do anything about it, he doesn't fully see my point of view on the issue.I think he is just humoring me. But if this ever came up again he knows that I would say I'm not comfortable with him going and he can either choose them or me.


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## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes the sad part is that it would seem silly to divorce over such but I can tell you I would never stand for this. But even the husband changing his mind after I lay it out for him would probably not appease me because it is the underlying dynamic that is problematic and going to be problematic most likely forever.
> 
> You see she does sound like the type that is a monster MIL and further if you had children she'd probably expect your children and husband to leave you at home and go on the vacation. Your real problem though is your husband. He sees this a normal and when you voiced your unhappiness he's just decided to do it anyway and the problem is with you.
> 
> That means he's dismissive of your feelings which every poster seems to think your feelings are the normal ones. But normal doesn't really matter. What matters is being in a relationship where two people WANT to be together and make each other happy. They CHOOSE each other over others and respect each other. It doesn't really sound like he's doing that.
> 
> So I'll be the first to say. You are in for a life time of heart ache here. The closer you live to the in-laws the more the heart ache will be. So you need to decide is this how YOU want to be treated? How often is this likely to come up (as in how close does she live). What would happen if her husband died? Is your husband the first line of defense? Is there a future where this woman lives with you?
> 
> I am usually for two people working their issues out. According to you he doesn't see and issue and doesn't wish to work on it. I"m just passionate enough that while he was in Hawaii I'd be seeing a lawyer. Sorry but I wish you could glimpse your future.


Well her two daughters both have 2 children so she's already got 4 grandkids and she has excluded them from this trip too. She's not really overly involved with their lives she doesn't butt in or anything like that. This whole trip is really nothing I would've imagined her doing honestly. We actually have moved about 2 hours away from them for work, so they're not close. He goes up there and spends the weekend maybe once a month or once every two months.


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## EI

spicynug said:


> *He goes up there and spends the weekend maybe once a month or once every two months.*


What? 🤦🏼‍♀️ 🤷🏼‍♀️😖


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## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> Well her two daughters both have 2 children so she's already got 4 grandkids and she has excluded them from this trip too. She's not really overly involved with their lives she doesn't butt in or anything like that. This whole trip is really nothing I would've imagined her doing honestly. We actually have moved about 2 hours away from them for work, so they're not close. He goes up there and spends the weekend maybe once a month or once every two months.


yep I can't say I blame you in this assessment. But you have some real read flags here. Only 2 hours away and he spends the weekend up there once every month or two.

Do you work weekends? What are you two spending them apart?

Anyways I was young once and dated someone like him but actually less attached to family. I hung on for maybe 2 years.... I was fortunate enough to see the light and escape. I can easily see how I could have been where you are for 10 years or so...

So I get it and wish you well. But I don't think it's going to turn out well.


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## spicynug

EI said:


> What? 🤦🏼‍♀️ 🤷🏼‍♀️😖


It's sometimes to go play golf with his dad. Or because his mom asked him to do some stuff for his aunt that needs heavy lifting etc. That's what I meant by he does everything they ask him to do. It's just normal for them to want to spend time together. I could go too but 1) I want to relax in my own space after working all week and 2) his dad doesn't really like animals and I'm not boarding my dog to go visit or feeling like I'm forcing them to have our dog around. (he's house trained and well behaved btw)


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## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> We dated for 4 years before getting married. I've never felt shunned before and we have always been cordial towards each other. He is the baby of the family so there's a little bit of that annoying dynamic, he has grown up a lot since moving out though. He knows how I feel about it and he says he feels bad but obviously not bad enough to do anything about it, he doesn't fully see my point of view on the issue.I think he is just humoring me. But if this ever came up again he knows that I would say I'm not comfortable with him going and he can either choose them or me.


With this paragraph you are indicating you've let him know it's ok this time.....

Did he even commit to what he would do if it came up again cause right now he has no reason not to do the same exact thing.


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## EI

spicynug said:


> It's sometimes to go play golf with his dad. Or because his mom asked him to do some stuff for his aunt that needs heavy lifting etc. That's what I meant by he does everything they ask him to do. It's just normal for them to want to spend time together. I could go too but 1) I want to relax in my own space after working all week and 2) his dad doesn't really like animals and I'm not boarding my dog to go visit or feeling like I'm forcing them to have our dog around. (he's house trained and well behaved btw)


I don’t know if you and your husband are Christians or not, but if so, here’s what the Bible has to say about marriage:

Genesis 2:24

“Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”


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## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> With this paragraph you are indicating you've let him know it's ok this time.....
> 
> Did he even commit to what he would do if it came up again cause right now he has no reason not to do the same exact thing.


I've told him I'm not ok with it. I've told him everything I feel about it. They have already paid for his ticket since he immediately agreed to go without me. He's aware I'm not happy, he acts like he cares. But he obviously doesn't care enough to not go or have them lose money on his flight. If I asked him not to go he would not agree to that, he thinks this is fine and doesn't understand my pov. He thinks it's going too far for me to ask him to choose one over the other he doesn't think that is a choice that comes into it. It's simply a family trip and I'm making into more.


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## spicynug

EI said:


> I don’t know if you and your husband are Christians or not, but if so, here’s what the Bible has to say about marriage:
> 
> Genesis 2:24
> 
> “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.”


His family are religious and go to church, I'm not religious but I support his beliefs. He's not as religious as he'd have them believe, he doesn't go to church unless he's visiting them.


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## bobert

spicynug said:


> They have already paid for his ticket since he immediately agreed to go without me. He's aware I'm not happy, he acts like he cares. But he obviously doesn't care enough to not go or have them lose money on his flight.


Or doesn't care enough to book you a flight and hotel tell them to suck it...


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## spicynug

bobert said:


> Or doesn't care enough to book you a flight and hotel tell them to suck it...


Oh, I for sure don't want to go be somewhere I'm not wanted I'd be more comfortable going on my own solo vacation. I don't really even want to go be around them for the holidays.


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## Diana7

A year after we married I arranged for us to go and see his mum in Oz which for us in the UK is a very very long journey and expensive. 
Just before we went home she asked him behind my back to come over again the following year and she would pay for his ticket. She didn't want me to come. 
He had no intention of going although that was partly because he struggled to deal with her. 

My point is that she was deliberately excluding me as his wife.


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## Anastasia6

Well each marriage is different each couple is different. It seems to me you two are working on living independent lives and not being a couple. That works for some. I don't understand it and couldn't be in a marriage that way. But you dated for 4 years so I guess this is ok with you.

Since you are remaining with your husband and he's going to continue this behavior you should consider joining him on the occasional weekend to improve your relationship with your In-laws. I mean it's only one weekend a month or two.


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## spicynug

Diana7 said:


> A year after we married I arranged for us to go and see his mum in Oz which for us in the UK is a very very long journey and expensive.
> Just before we went home she asked him behind my back to come over again the following year and she would pay for his ticket. She didn't want me to come.
> He had no intention of going although that was partly because he struggled to deal with her.
> 
> My point is that she was deliberately excluding me as his wife.


At least he stuck up for you, that's the feeling I want.


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## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> At least he stuck up for you, that's the feeling I want.


And you should have a spouse who does. Everyone deserves a spouse who stands up for them.


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## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> Well each marriage is different each couple is different. It seems to me you two are working on living independent lives and not being a couple. That works for some. I don't understand it and couldn't be in a marriage that way. But you dated for 4 years so I guess this is ok with you.
> 
> Since you are remaining with your husband and he's going to continue this behavior you should consider joining him on the occasional weekend to improve your relationship with your In-laws. I mean it's only one weekend a month or two.


I used to go, I don't like going. He's not even there most of the time, he's out all day playing golf. And his dad complains about my dog getting hair in the floor or stepping on his feet (accidentally). Weekends are when I get chores done at home and do the grocery shopping, I work all week.


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## Anastasia6

So what does this marriage provide you?

what are his good qualities?


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## Diana7

spicynug said:


> At least he stuck up for you, that's the feeling I want.


Well he only said to her that he couldn't promise anything 🙄
He had no intention of going though.


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## Blondilocks

So, while he's off playing golf and helping auntie (because his father can't do any heavy lifting?) you're stuck doing all of the chores and grocery shopping? He comes home to a clean house, food and his laundry done - is this right? Does he expect you to welcome him with open arms and hit the sheets?

Do you ever get to take a weekend off and come home with everything done for you?


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## EleGirl

spicynug said:


> The original trip was MIL and FIL and another couple, their friends. But the other couple couldn't go so they thought of my husband and I as we don't have children and we love to travel. *But now it's family only*. I'm not super close to my family, I mean we see each other and love each other but me and my siblings are all very independent. My husbands family are all very close. So, I didn't know if that's why I didn't get this trip idea and thought it was strange. I think they just see themselves as the 'main characters' and the rest of us are just supporting roles.


The problem is that you are now family. They don't seem to understand that.


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## Openminded

I was married to someone who didn’t like telling his mom “no”. I went with him to see his family for many years but finally quit going because they always made it obvious I was non-family. He refused to go by himself and told his mom it was my fault he didn’t see them. When she died, he blamed me because he didn’t see her for the last ten years of her life. The craziness that can come with family dynamics doesn’t necessarily go away. Be thinking of your next step before you need it.


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## EI

Why are your husband’s parents (who are not blood related to one another) both considered “family,” but you and your sisters-in-law’s husbands not considered family?


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## EI

Openminded said:


> I was married to someone who didn’t like telling his mom “no”. I went with him to see his family for many years but finally quit going because they always made it obvious I was non-family. He refused to go by himself and told his mom it was my fault he didn’t see them. When she died, he blamed me because he didn’t see her for the last ten years of her life. The craziness that can come with family dynamics doesn’t necessarily go away. Be thinking of your next step before you need it.


I’m so glad you divorced him. 

Sorry for the t/j OP.


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## She'sStillGotIt

spicynug said:


> *He knows how I feel about it and he says he feels bad but obviously not bad enough to do anything about it, he doesn't fully see my point of view on the issue.I think he is just humoring me.*


Stop making excuses for the UNACCEPTABLE.

He knows EXACTLY what your point is - he just doesn't *give* a rat's ass. Big difference. Stop trying to convince yourself that he's too clueless or too much of a "dumb guy" to realize what he's doing because he knows exactly what he's doing.

OP, the truth is, people don't do what they don't want to do. This means he obviously *prefers* to go off with his family and doesn't care what _you_ do for those 10 days and doesn't care that he's blown YOUR chance up for a vacation. So what does that TELL you?

That he just doesn't CARE. 

*



But if this ever came up again he knows that I would say I'm not comfortable with him going and he can either choose them or me.

Click to expand...

*LOL. That'll show him. 

Find your self-respect, OP. Seriously.


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## Openminded

EI said:


> I’m so glad you divorced him.
> 
> Sorry for the t/j OP.


Thanks, EI — me too!


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## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> So, while he's off playing golf and helping auntie (because his father can't do any heavy lifting?) you're stuck doing all of the chores and grocery shopping? He comes home to a clean house, food and his laundry done - is this right? Does he expect you to welcome him with open arms and hit the sheets?
> 
> Do you ever get to take a weekend off and come home with everything done for you?


He does his own laundry. We split chores so he mows the yard, does trash, and cooks dinner every night (I work evenings he works days so I take the leftovers for dinner at work the next day) and I do the other stuff.


----------



## spicynug

EI said:


> Why are your husband’s parents (who are not blood related to one another) both considered “family,” but you and your sisters-in-law’s husbands not considered family?


I have no clue


----------



## EleGirl

@spicynug

Do you and he do things with your family of origin?


----------



## GaLaxya

Livvie said:


> No it's not. It's actually smart advice.
> 
> Be careful how you label other posters' advice please.


You better be careful! I am not labeling other posters' advice or whatever you are paranoid about!!!

I was talking about my decision not to advice her on what to do at the end. It had nothing to do with what anyone else said...


----------



## Prodigal

spicynug said:


> He's aware I'm not happy, he acts like he cares. But he obviously doesn't care enough to not go or have them lose money on his flight. *If I asked him not to go he would not agree to that, he thinks this is fine and doesn't understand my pov. He thinks it's going too far for me to ask him to choose one over the other* he doesn't think that is a choice that comes into it.


This is going to be your life. Mom and/or dad snap their fingers, and he'll be there in a heartbeat. You don't like it? Tough. Go pound sand and get over it. Regardless of their family dynamic, and it's a screwed-up dynamic IMO, you are relegated to the back seat in your husband's drive through life. Get used to it and suck it up. Or simmer in resentment when it keeps happening. Or start realizing this may not be a match made in heaven.

Y'know, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but down the road I don't see this ending well. Sorry.


----------



## EleGirl

spicynug said:


> I have no clue


Do your in-laws do things with your husband's grandparents? Is this exclusion of spouses part of the way the grandparents behave?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Not normal at all. Your wife is your family. The rest of your family comes second.

If my parents did something to exclude my wife then bye bye to them. That is the order of nature. Parents raise a child then the child leaves and goes out and makes their own family. That is how things are supposed to work.


----------



## spicynug

EleGirl said:


> @spicynug
> 
> Do you and he do things with your family of origin?


Not really, we visit on the holidays. My siblings and I have always been pretty independent though we've never been that close as a family unit. I guess that's why I wanted some perspective from people who actually are close with family.


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## spicynug

EleGirl said:


> Do your in-laws do things with your husband's grandparents? Is this exclusion of spouses part of the way the grandparents behave?


The grandparents have all passed on. My husband's parents are a little older they're in their 60's. His sisters are about 11 years older than he is they say he was an oops baby.


----------



## EleGirl

spicynug said:


> Not really, we visit on the holidays. My siblings and I have always been pretty independent though we've never been that close as a family unit. I guess that's why I wanted some perspective from people who actually are close with family.


I'm from a very large close family. Over the years we have traveled together for vacations. There is no way any of us would ever even suggest that someone should come without their spouse. No way.


----------



## Cynthia

spicynug said:


> At least he stuck up for you, that's the feeling I want.


Right, because if he isn't going to stand by you, what is the point of being married? You cannot trust someone who doesn't have your back. I'm not suggesting you divorce him. I am suggesting that you work to address this problem according to the magnitude that it is.

Your husband planned a vacation with you. The two of you then cancelled your vacation in order to go with his parents. He then participated in cancelling your vacation while retaining his vacation. That is highly rude and dismissive of you and the marriage.

My husband lives far from his foo (family of origin). He has gone back numerous times without me, by mutual agreement, when it was not possible for me, or the kids and me, to go with him. Towards the end of his grandparent's lives, I insisted that he go have Thanksgiving with them, without the kids and me, because I thought it was important that he go, even though we couldn't afford to take the whole family. It was the last time my husband saw his beloved uncle, who died unexpectedly shortly thereafter. All this to say that I am not against one spouse spending time with their family without a spouse, but what you have described is an entirely different situation.

You were invited, then uninvited. Your husband agreed to this without even discussing it with you. You agreed to cancel the other vacation based on going with your husband and his family, then they cut you out without even a thought for how inconsiderate and rude they were.

The way they have treated you is based on the belief that your opinion doesn't matter. I would bring this up to your husband again, telling him that this is a much bigger deal to you than he seems to think and that he needs to know that you are not going to tolerate being treated this way. Your husband needs to make this up to you and never do anything like this again.


----------



## Anastasia6

Cynthia said:


> Right, because if he isn't going to stand by you, what is the point of being married? You cannot trust someone who doesn't have your back. I'm not suggesting you divorce him. I am suggesting that you work to address this problem according to the magnitude that it is.
> 
> Your husband planned a vacation with you. The two of you then cancelled your vacation in order to go with his parents. He then participated in cancelling your vacation while retaining his vacation. That is highly rude and dismissive of you and the marriage.
> 
> My husband lives far from his foo (family of origin). He has gone back numerous times without me, by mutual agreement, when it was not possible for me, or the kids and me, to go with him. Towards the end of his grandparent's lives, I insisted that he go have Thanksgiving with them, without the kids and me, because I thought it was important that he go, even though we couldn't afford to take the whole family. It was the last time my husband saw his beloved uncle, who died unexpectedly shortly thereafter. All this to say that I am not against one spouse spending time with their family without a spouse, but what you have described is an entirely different situation.
> 
> You were invited, then uninvited. Your husband agreed to this without even discussing it with you. You agreed to cancel the other vacation based on going with your husband and his family, then they cut you out without even a thought for how inconsiderate and rude they were.
> 
> The way they have treated you is based on the belief that your opinion doesn't matter. I would bring this up to your husband again, telling him that this is a much bigger deal to you than he seems to think and that he needs to know that you are not going to tolerate being treated this way. Your husband needs to make this up to you and never do anything like this again.


The problem is you can’t make him value her. He’s shown he just doesn’t.

Im not sure there’s a way to fix that


----------



## Cynthia

Anastasia6 said:


> The problem is you can’t make him value her. He’s shown he just doesn’t.
> 
> Im not sure there’s a way to fix that


No, she can't make him, but she can let him know how serious this is and talk to him about how this impacts their relationship. I highly doubt she's going to divorce him over this, but it important to deal with an issue when it is presented, otherwise, nothing gets resolved. I'm not so sure that he realizes the severity of this situation. If he has any self-awareness, he may be able to work through the meaning of his behavior and recognize that he dismissed his wife and put her lower in value than his family.


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## spicynug

Cynthia said:


> If he has any self-awareness, he may be able to work through the meaning of his behavior and recognize that he dismissed his wife and put her lower in value than his family.


I was having a hard time putting my feelings in a sentence and this is it, thank you


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## Anastasia6

Cynthia said:


> No, she can't make him, but she can let him know how serious this is and talk to him about how this impacts their relationship. I highly doubt she's going to divorce him over this, but it important to deal with an issue when it is presented, otherwise, nothing gets resolved. I'm not so sure that he realizes the severity of this situation. If he has any self-awareness, he may be able to work through the meaning of his behavior and recognize that he dismissed his wife and put her lower in value than his family.


Yes I agree. I do feel bad for OP though as it’s only likely to get worse.


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## Cynthia

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes I agree. I do feel bad for OP though as it’s only likely to get worse.


Sometimes things get worse before they get better. When he realizes how serious this is and what it says to his wife, he may open his eyes and make necessary changes. I know I've grown a lot since I was first married. Looking back, I am appalled at some of my former antics, but once my husband explained how some things hurt him, I stopped and changed. The same is true of him.


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## Diana7

Op I wonder how he would react if you told him you will be going on a holiday as well next year with or without him.


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## spicynug

Diana7 said:


> Op I wonder how he would react if you told him you will be going on a holiday as well next year with or without him.


I actually have decided to go to crimecon on my own, it's in April and that's when our previous vacation was planned for. I told him my plans and that I was going to stay a couple extra days to visit the Grand Canyon. He seriously said "You're doing all that without me?" I just told him he has got to be kidding me with that statement. He didn't say anything else.


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## Anastasia6

Cynthia said:


> Sometimes things get worse before they get better. When he realizes how serious this is and what it says to his wife, he may open his eyes and make necessary changes. I know I've grown a lot since I was first married. Looking back, I am appalled at some of my former antics, but once my husband explained how some things hurt him, I stopped and changed. The same is true of him.


I would hope that to be true. However, she did explain and he's dismissed her feelings and 'everything is normal'. 
Not only was she disinvited and excluded (even if she got her own hotel room); she will now not have a planned vacation or have to go alone. So I don't see him growing in this at all.

I've seen this situation a few times in my life and none of them have I seen change.


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## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> I actually have decided to go to crimecon on my own, it's in April and that's when our previous vacation was planned for. I told him my plans and that I was going to stay a couple extra days to visit the Grand Canyon. He seriously said "You're doing all that without me?" I just told him he has got to be kidding me with that statement. He didn't say anything else.


Well you are a better woman than me. I didn't get married to vacation alone. But I'd definitely stretch it out and enjoy yourself. You know the grand canyon is about 7 hours from vegas.


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## Diana7

spicynug said:


> I actually have decided to go to crimecon on my own, it's in April and that's when our previous vacation was planned for. I told him my plans and that I was going to stay a couple extra days to visit the Grand Canyon. He seriously said "You're doing all that without me?" I just told him he has got to be kidding me with that statement. He didn't say anything else.


I had to laugh at that. I mean he is going away without you isn't he. 
Anyway good for you to still have a holiday despite him not going.


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## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> Well you are a better woman than me. I didn't get married to vacation alone. But I'd definitely stretch it out and enjoy yourself. You know the grand canyon is about 7 hours from vegas.


Yeah, I know but hey it's closer than I'll be for a long time though so I figured I might as well.


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## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> Yeah, I know but hey it's closer than I'll be for a long time though so I figured I might as well.


Just realized crime con is in Vegas. I’ve driven from Vegas to the grand it was nice. There is also a train you can take.


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## LATERILUS79

Ok, after reading all your posts, it sounds like you've got a mommy's boy. 

Youngest of the family by a long shot. That means his siblings were long gone when he was still a child. So his parents spoiled him, am I right? Some parents get this way. Don't want to let go of their youngest. Also, I bet he used to getting his way. I bet no one tells him "no". 

So yeah, just like everyone has said here, his family is messed up for keeping spouses out of the family functions. They fail to realize that marriage means you are now a part of the family. 

I'm assuming he has a lot of good traits for you to date 4 years and none of this was bad enough to leave. Regardless, it won't change until you change it. If I was in your shoes, I would ask him if he is married to you or his mother. If he says you, then inform him to find his spine and tell his mommy that excluding his wife is unacceptable. Period. If he keeps having this problem and can't seem to make you a priority, then you have to decide if you want to be a lower priority for the rest of your life. 

Oh, and if you are thinking about having kids with him, what do you think you'll feel like when he prioritizes his mother over your children?


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## Bluesclues

Not normal. But I have a bad habit of trying to see things from the other side. I can imagine that inviting you and your husband on this trip caused hard feelings for your SIL’s. BabyOoops has probably had a lot of things they didn’t. Taking you out of the equation and inviting the siblings to share the extra room solves that problem. When your husband suggested you get another room and pay for it yourselves it might not have seemed a great idea to them because then the sisters would be upset they didn’t get to bring their spouses. Maybe one or both are not in a financial position to do that. Plus the added issue of childcare. I am not making excuses for your in-laws - they should’ve thought it all through before inviting you guys or uninvited you both if it became an issue with the SILs. But it makes more sense that they put themselves into a rock and a hard place by inviting you and your husband, angered their other children, and did a poor job doing damage control, as opposed to your MIL being a crazy control freak. Your in laws obviously both lack emotional intelligence.

Your husband doesn’t get the same grace. There is not one reason besides selfishness and immaturity that he would still go on the trip. His comments about your alone trip made me laugh, wow.


----------



## Livvie

Bluesclues said:


> Not normal. But I have a bad habit of trying to see things from the other side. I can imagine that inviting you and your husband on this trip caused hard feelings for your SIL’s. BabyOoops has probably had a lot of things they didn’t. Taking you out of the equation and inviting the siblings to share the extra room solves that problem. When your husband suggested you get another room and pay for it yourselves it might not have seemed a great idea to them because then the sisters would be upset they didn’t get to bring their spouses. Maybe one or both are not in a financial position to do that. Plus the added issue of childcare. I am not making excuses for your in-laws - they should’ve thought it all through before inviting you guys or uninvited you both if it became an issue with the SILs. But it makes more sense that they put themselves into a rock and a hard place by inviting you and your husband, angered their other children, and did a poor job doing damage control, as opposed to your MIL being a crazy control freak. Your in laws obviously both lack emotional intelligence.
> 
> Your husband doesn’t get the same grace. There is not one reason besides selfishness and immaturity that he would still go on the trip. His comments about your alone trip made me laugh, wow.


I think you are making things up with this post.

Nowhere did OP say that all of the siblings are going to be sharing that one extra room now, instead, and that's why she is disinvited. I really doubt her husband is going to be sharing one room with both of his 40ish year old sisters for 10 days 🤣


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## Blondilocks

Livvie said:


> I really doubt her husband is going to be sharing one room with both of his 40ish year old sisters for 10 days 🤣


If he does, it will serve him right. They have practically zero in common. I hope they make him feel like the immature brat he is.

No way in hell would I share holidays with them. They reap what they sow.


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## Marc878

Your husband and his family are low class POS’s. Dump him now or you will pay later.


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## frusdil

Anastasia6 said:


> But even the husband changing his mind after I lay it out for him would probably not appease me because it is the underlying dynamic that is problematic and going to be problematic most likely forever.


My thoughts exactly.

If this were my husband, I’d have told him straight up that if he goes, we’re done. No ifs and or buts. Our marriage would be over.


----------



## Marc878

frusdil said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> If this were my husband, I’d have told him straight up that if he goes, we’re done. No ifs and or buts. Our marriage would be over.


You shouldn’t have to tell him anything. I wouldn’t say a word. Actions would be swift and merciless as soon as he left. Boom💥

You stay in this you’ll just get more.


----------



## spicynug

Livvie said:


> I think you are making things up with this post.
> 
> Nowhere did OP say that all of the siblings are going to be sharing that one extra room now, instead, and that's why she is disinvited. I really doubt her husband is going to be sharing one room with both of his 40ish year old sisters for 10 days 🤣


The sisters get the room and he is on a sleeper sofa


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## spicynug

Bluesclues said:


> Not normal. But I have a bad habit of trying to see things from the other side. I can imagine that inviting you and your husband on this trip caused hard feelings for your SIL’s. BabyOoops has probably had a lot of things they didn’t. Taking you out of the equation and inviting the siblings to share the extra room solves that problem. When your husband suggested you get another room and pay for it yourselves it might not have seemed a great idea to them because then the sisters would be upset they didn’t get to bring their spouses. Maybe one or both are not in a financial position to do that. Plus the added issue of childcare. I am not making excuses for your in-laws - they should’ve thought it all through before inviting you guys or uninvited you both if it became an issue with the SILs. But it makes more sense that they put themselves into a rock and a hard place by inviting you and your husband, angered their other children, and did a poor job doing damage control, as opposed to your MIL being a crazy control freak. Your in laws obviously both lack emotional intelligence.
> 
> Your husband doesn’t get the same grace. There is not one reason besides selfishness and immaturity that he would still go on the trip. His comments about your alone trip made me laugh, wow.


Both sisters are absolutely in a financial position to go and idk about childcare but if I was left home with kids I’d be even more upset that they excluded my children


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## SpinyNorman

I would have a low opinion of anyone who invited me and then disinvited me, relative or not. As for inviting my spouse but not me on a major vaction, that wouldn't bother me so much as my spouse accepting.


----------



## spicynug

SpinyNorman said:


> I would have a low opinion of anyone who invited me and then disinvited me, relative or not. As for inviting my spouse but not me on a major vaction, that wouldn't bother me so much as my spouse accepting.


Yeah my husband agreeing to go is what’s causing problems


----------



## Anastasia6

SpinyNorman said:


> I would have a low opinion of anyone who invited me and then disinvited me, relative or not. As for inviting my spouse but not me on a major vaction, that wouldn't bother me so much as my spouse accepting.


Exactly the spouse can’t control his family but he can ALWAYS control his response.


----------



## Blondilocks

Obviously, your husband would prefer to sleep on a sofa bed for ten days to be around his mommy, daddy and two sisters than to vacation with you for the next year. Hope he enjoys himself. Make those ten days he is gone memorable for yourself. Do a little retail shopping while out and about. Dine out every night. Make sure to tell him about all of the fun you're having while he is gone.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


Your husband is way wrong! He should tell his parents that you and him are one and if you arent welcome, neither is he. And if MIL wants to see grandkids, she better adjust her behavior.

My own mother tried thus crap early in my marriage because my wife was poor and different race. I unloaded on her in my fathers presence and told her exactly what said above.


----------



## GC1234

In my personal experience, and I'm in a similar boat, it will only get WORSE. You now know that if you are being disrespected by your husband's family, that there will be NO defense for you...you'll be on your own, fighting your own battle and the expectation will be that you SHOULD bite the bullet and deal with it, as your husband has shown you. I'm telling you what I would have done, had I known this was going to be my life before I had kids, I would have booked it for the hills. ie. I would have left and not looked back. Your husband will always pander to his family, you will always come second and he will try to convince you that you're selfish for thinking otherwise, that it's HIS family, and they are important. See the red flags for what they are, it will not change unless your husband WANTS to, and at this moment, it doesn't seem like it.


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## Anastasia6

GC1234 said:


> In my personal experience, and I'm in a similar boat, it will only get WORSE. You now know that if you are being disrespected by your husband's family, that there will be NO defense for you...you'll be on your own, fighting your own battle and the expectation will be that you SHOULD bite the bullet and deal with it, as your husband has shown you. I'm telling you what I would have done, had I known this was going to be my life before I had kids, I would have booked it for the hills. ie. I would have left and not looked back. Your husband will always pander to his family, you will always come second and he will try to convince you that you're selfish for thinking otherwise, that it's HIS family, and they are important. See the red flags for what they are, it will not change unless your husband WANTS to, and at this moment, it doesn't seem like it.


Yes those of us who have been around and seen it or have lived it can see this for what it is. The problem is she's young and just married so it's hard to see what we know. So just like those who have come before her she'll over look this think it's a one off. I just hope she gets to see the truth before kids.

The response to her vacation was just over the top.


----------



## SunCMars

Tell us...

Tell us, Dear, that you are going to dump this man.

Dump him, send him packing, back to his Mommy's arms, she, having, owning no charms.

If you cannot, tell us why.



_Lilith- _I dumped my husband, _Butch_, as I had no other choice.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


Wow. If my husband did this to me...omg...he knows better.


----------



## GC1234

Anastasia6 said:


> Yes those of us who have been around and seen it or have lived it can see this for what it is. The problem is she's young and just married so it's hard to see what we know. So just like those who have come before her she'll over look this think it's a one off. I just hope she gets to see the truth before kids.
> 
> The response to her vacation was just over the top.


That's true, it's easier to see the red flags when you've been there and done that. I guess that's why we're here, in the hopes that she does see before the kids. This man's family is crazy! I've never heard of such a thing. I hope OP responds, I'm curious about the brother in laws....honestly, they probably are passive and don't care, but who knows.


----------



## Cindywife

GC1234 said:


> That's true, it's easier to see the red flags when you've been there and done that. I guess that's why we're here, in the hopes that she does see before the kids. This man's family is crazy! I've never heard of such a thing. I hope OP responds, I'm curious about the brother in laws....honestly, they probably are passive and don't care, but who knows.


I couldn't imagine being married to a guy who thought it was OK not to take me to Hawaii, one of the most romantic places in the world.


----------



## GC1234

Cindywife said:


> I couldn't imagine being married to a guy who thought it was OK not to take me to Hawaii, one of the most romantic places in the world.


Me either, I would ask the parents the logic behind it. I'll tell you what, if my husband even thought of going to Hawaii without me and with HIS extended family, he'd be out the door staying with his parents or one of his siblings, lol.


----------



## Cindywife

GC1234 said:


> Me either, I would ask the parents the logic behind it. I'll tell you what, if my husband even thought of going to Hawaii without me and with HIS extended family, he'd be out the door staying with his parents or one of his siblings, lol.


Of course! You don't go to Hawaii with mommy and leave your wife at home. This would be the fight of the century. But I was really good at weeding guys out who didn't share my values during the dating period.


----------



## GC1234

Cindywife said:


> Of course! You don't go to Hawaii with mommy and leave your wife at home. This would be the fight of the century. But I was really good at weeding guys out who didn't share my values during the dating period.


I am glad you could weed them out. I wish I was as smart back then. A lot of things came out AFTER I got married, unfortunately. We didn't have any real issues with his family yet when we were dating, or engaged, it wasn't until I was pregnant with my daughter did I start to see the issues (a few months after marriage). Hopefully you are with someone who shares your values.


----------



## spicynug

GC1234 said:


> That's true, it's easier to see the red flags when you've been there and done that. I guess that's why we're here, in the hopes that she does see before the kids. This man's family is crazy! I've never heard of such a thing. I hope OP responds, I'm curious about the brother in laws....honestly, they probably are passive and don't care, but who knows.


I don't know how the brother in laws feel about it, they wouldn't speak up around everyone. Just like I wouldn't, my issue isn't with his family it's with him. 
We actually just had a blow up about it this morning. I asked him if he thought his friend would tell his wife she could no longer come to Hawaii because his mommy said so. (He has always idolized this friend for being a great husband and being devoted to his wife and respects him for it) He claims that's not how it is that it's just his mom wanting to spend some time with her children. He wouldn't answer my question so I told him no (friend) would never do that to his wife and you know that but the real question I want you to answer is WHY he wouldn't do that to her? That's the POV you need to take a hard look at since you don't have it yourself. He said ok so friend is a better husband than me, thanks for that. And got his keys and said he's going out for a while, so the old immature storm out because he doesn't want to face things. He's probably calling his dad to talk about me.


----------



## spicynug

GC1234 said:


> Me either, I would ask the parents the logic behind it. I'll tell you what, if my husband even thought of going to Hawaii without me and with HIS extended family, he'd be out the door staying with his parents or one of his siblings, lol.


He says it's simply that his mom wants to spend time with her children.


----------



## Blondilocks

The Mil is the type to want family pics without all of those bothersome spouses of her precious babies butting in, I bet. Oh, she'll have her mug next to the grandkids but they just popped out of thin air.


----------



## GC1234

spicynug said:


> I don't know how the brother in laws feel about it, they wouldn't speak up around everyone. Just like I wouldn't, my issue isn't with his family it's with him.
> We actually just had a blow up about it this morning. I asked him if he thought his friend would tell his wife she could no longer come to Hawaii because his mommy said so. (He has always idolized this friend for being a great husband and being devoted to his wife and respects him for it) He claims that's not how it is that it's just his mom wanting to spend some time with her children. He wouldn't answer my question so I told him no (friend) would never do that to his wife and you know that but the real question I want you to answer is WHY he wouldn't do that to her? That's the POV you need to take a hard look at since you don't have it yourself. He said ok so friend is a better husband than me, thanks for that. And got his keys and said he's going out for a while, so the old immature storm out because he doesn't want to face things. He's probably calling his dad to talk about me.


Well then, husband needs to grow a pair and tell the parents, "umm, no, I won't be going on any vacations unless spouses and grandkids are there". If he goes to Hawaii, I wouldn't allow him a place to stay when he comes home.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


No way should your husband, or his sisters, go on this trip. It is utter nonsense.


----------



## Openminded

His friend sounds like an actual functioning adult. Unfortunately, many people never do grow up. I was married for decades to one who didn’t. That makes for a very difficult life.


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> The Mil is the type to want family pics without all of those bothersome spouses of her precious babies butting in, I bet. Oh, she'll have her mug next to the grandkids but they just popped out of thin air.


She actually does that. One set of photos with everyone and one set with just her and her kids and husband.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

spicynug said:


> I actually have decided to go to crimecon on my own, it's in April and that's when our previous vacation was planned for. I told him my plans and that I was going to stay a couple extra days to visit the Grand Canyon. He seriously said "You're doing all that without me?" I just told him he has got to be kidding me with that statement. He didn't say anything else.





spicynug said:


> I don't know how the brother in laws feel about it, they wouldn't speak up around everyone. Just like I wouldn't, my issue isn't with his family it's with him.
> We actually just had a blow up about it this morning. I asked him if he thought his friend would tell his wife she could no longer come to Hawaii because his mommy said so. (He has always idolized this friend for being a great husband and being devoted to his wife and respects him for it) He claims that's not how it is that it's just his mom wanting to spend some time with her children. He wouldn't answer my question so I told him no (friend) would never do that to his wife and you know that but the real question I want you to answer is WHY he wouldn't do that to her? That's the POV you need to take a hard look at since you don't have it yourself. He said ok so friend is a better husband than me, thanks for that. And got his keys and said he's going out for a while, so the old immature storm out because he doesn't want to face things. He's probably calling his dad to talk about me.


Good for you on both of these. I can't fathom how your husband thinks this is okay in even any remote way. Would there be any value in contacting the BILs to see what they are thinking?


----------



## Blondilocks

His mother doesn't want to spend time with her adult children who are married. She wants to bask in the glow of motherhood as if they are still children. Your husband isn't the only one who needs to grow up.

This all came about because his parents got ditched by their friends and thought they could offload some of the cost of the rental onto you and your husband. Then, they suddenly discover they have the resources to pay for flights for 3 people and pay all the expense of the accommodation. Nice - first they're using you and now they're telling you to piss off.


----------



## spicynug

BigDaddyNY said:


> Good for you on both of these. I can't fathom how your husband thinks this is okay in even any remote way. Would there be any value in contacting the BILs to see what they are thinking?


Not for me, their marriage values don't interest me. My issue isn't with the family it's my own marriage.


----------



## Livvie

spicynug said:


> I don't know how the brother in laws feel about it, they wouldn't speak up around everyone. Just like I wouldn't, my issue isn't with his family it's with him.
> We actually just had a blow up about it this morning. I asked him if he thought his friend would tell his wife she could no longer come to Hawaii because his mommy said so. (He has always idolized this friend for being a great husband and being devoted to his wife and respects him for it) He claims that's not how it is that it's just his mom wanting to spend some time with her children. He wouldn't answer my question so I told him no (friend) would never do that to his wife and you know that but the real question I want you to answer is WHY he wouldn't do that to her? That's the POV you need to take a hard look at since you don't have it yourself. He said ok so friend is a better husband than me, thanks for that. And got his keys and said he's going out for a while, so the old immature storm out because he doesn't want to face things. He's probably calling his dad to talk about me.


It's not just a matter of his mom wanting to spend time w her children. The "kids" aren't in high school anymore. 

It's that you are a young newly married couple and you had to cancel your own vacation plans so he could go, and him going will burn up his vacation time so that you two won't be able to take vacation together.

The older sisters are in a different place. Much older, married longer and with children. I bet them going isn't going to jeopardize their ability to take a vacation with their own spouses. 

That's a huge difference.


----------



## spicynug

Livvie said:


> It's not just a matter of his mom wanting to spend time w her children. The "kids" aren't in high school anymore.
> 
> It's that you are a young newly married couple and you had to cancel your own vacation plans so he could go, and him going will burn up his vacation time so that you two won't be able to take vacation together.
> 
> The older sisters are in a different place. Much older, married longer and with children. I bet them going isn't going to jeopardize their ability to take a vacation with their own spouses.
> 
> That's a huge difference.


Now he's said if new people buy out the company he might get more time off he just can't say for sure or we can go on a trip he just will take it unpaid. But I don't think he believes that.


----------



## SunCMars

GC1234 said:


> That's true, it's easier to see the red flags when you've been there and done that. I guess that's why we're here, in the hopes that she does see before the kids. This man's family is crazy! I've never heard of such a thing. I hope OP responds, *I'm curious about the brother in laws....honestly, they probably are passive and don't care, but who knows.*


Or...

They are happy to be (short term) rid of their spouses for whatever reason.
When the cat is away, the mice do play.


_Nemesis-_ I know this.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> I don't know how the brother in laws feel about it, they wouldn't speak up around everyone. Just like I wouldn't, my issue isn't with his family it's with him.
> We actually just had a blow up about it this morning. I asked him if he thought his friend would tell his wife she could no longer come to Hawaii because his mommy said so. (He has always idolized this friend for being a great husband and being devoted to his wife and respects him for it) He claims that's not how it is that it's just his mom wanting to spend some time with her children. He wouldn't answer my question so I told him no (friend) would never do that to his wife and you know that but the real question I want you to answer is WHY he wouldn't do that to her? That's the POV you need to take a hard look at since you don't have it yourself. He said ok so friend is a better husband than me, thanks for that. And got his keys and said he's going out for a while, so the old immature storm out because he doesn't want to face things. He's probably calling his dad to talk about me.


Well good for you for speaking up. The problem becomes. Even if he doesn't go or makes it so you can go he'll only be doing it because 'you made' him. He hasn't had any epiphanies or anything. He just wants what he wants which is to exclude you and be with HIS family. He doesn't see you as a package deal. I'm sorry. He response to not discuss this issue and run out the door is so immature. I hope you try to keep your calm during this. Since we all know you'll stay then this needs to be an exercise in communication. Yelling never accomplishes much.


----------



## GC1234

SunCMars said:


> Or...
> 
> They are happy to be (short term) rid of their spouses for whatever reason.
> When the cat is away, the mice do play.
> 
> 
> _Nemesis-_ I know this.


Haha, I was thinking that too.


----------



## GC1234

spicynug said:


> Not for me, their marriage values don't interest me. My issue isn't with the family it's my own marriage.


That's a good attitude to have about it. It really says more about your husband and his priorities than anything else. I say the same thing in my situation. It's not about what certain in laws do, it's about how my husband deals with it, or doesn't....lol.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> Now he's said if new people buy out the company he might get more time off he just can't say for sure or we can go on a trip he just will take it unpaid. But I don't think he believes that.


So that solves the problem that he can't go do all the fun things you planned for your vacation. Now he can do those too. Which really just helps him.

It doesn't solve the problem that he thinks this behavior by him (excluding you) is ok.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> Well good for you for speaking up. The problem becomes. Even if he doesn't go or makes it so you can go he'll only be doing it because 'you made' him. He hasn't had any epiphanies or anything. He just wants what he wants which is to exclude you and be with HIS family. He doesn't see you as a package deal. I'm sorry. He response to not discuss this issue and run out the door is so immature. I hope you try to keep your calm during this. Since we all know you'll stay then this needs to be an exercise in communication. Yelling never accomplishes much.


Exactly. That's what I told him. It's too late for action because I've already seen where me and our marriage stand with him. I just want some acknowledgment for him to actually realize why this is a problem for our relationship.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> Exactly. That's what I told him. It's too late for action because I've already seen where me and our marriage stand with him. I just want some acknowledgment for him to actually realize why this is a problem for our relationship.


I just feel so bad for you. I see that you are trapped. I mean no one in your circle or you yourself would realize this break up material. cause your married. You love him. It's a 'mistake' that he maybe feels kind of but not really bad about. Nobody's perfect. It's his family, it's his Mom.

But the best thing I ever did was leave my fiance after 2 years because I saw these same issues and suddenly it dawned on me that I deserve better than never being good enough for his family and watching while he let them disrepect me. Never standing up for me but 'on my side'. At least he admitted his mom was wrong to me in private.

less than a year later I was married to the love of my life and have been married coming up on 28 years. I thank God I had the strength to give up on this LTR and a person I thought I'd love for life. 

But you are already married and I'm sure he has good qualities and such. So you are trapped. I wish I could see a way out but you can't change him. He doesn't even see a problem. He's only reacting now because you are upset. He just wants to calm the storm now. He hasn't actually learned anything.


----------



## SunCMars

spicynug said:


> Now he's said if new people buy out the company he might get more time off he just can't say for sure or we can go on a trip he just will take it unpaid. But I don't think he believes that.


More weak words of promises, never to be kept.

Companies are loath to allow their key employees time off, even if unpaid.
It sets a precedent that they do not want to deal with.

He is throwing you fatty scraps after giving away steak.


----------



## Prodigal

spicynug said:


> I just want some acknowledgment for him to actually realize why this is a problem for our relationship.


The thing is, HE doesn't see traipsing off to Hawaii with his parents as a "problem." You do realize you married an immature, selfish man, don't you? 

I laughed out loud at how mom just wants to spend time with her kids. Yeah, right ... and in HAWAII, no less. I suppose it didn't occur to dear ole' mom that she could have invited all her kids to her home for a long weekend? I mean, if what she really wants to just spend time bonding with them, she could cook meals and reminisce over old photo albums. 

Instead, she's flying her offspring to a tropical island. Got it. 

Nope Don't hold out hope that your idiot husband is going to see it your way. Why? Because he wants HIS way. Your way doesn't count. Sorry.


----------



## Cindywife

Prodigal said:


> I laughed out loud at how mom just wants to spend time with her kids. Yeah, right ... and in HAWAII, no less. I suppose it didn't occur to dear ole' mom that she could have invited all her kids to her home for a long weekend? I mean, if what she really wants to just spend time bonding with them, she could cook meals and reminisce over old photo albums.


I was going to say something similar. This isn't about a sweet mommy wanting time with her kids. It's about a controlling monster who is putting all her kids marriages in jeopardy.

I couldn't see a man who loves his wife doing this to her. If it were me I'd get out now. I'm not saying you should but I would.


----------



## notmyjamie

Wow…my exH would have done this if his Mom had asked in the beginning of our marriage. Once we had kids his allegiance changed to me and the kids.

If he had done this, I probably would have taken his dream vacation with a friend just for spite. And he still would have had to wear a coat near me from the frostiness I would have given off. And if he got more vacation time I wouldn’t have wanted to take one with him. And I’d pretty much refuse all invitations to anything from the in-laws ever again. Maybe I wasn’t the most mature person back then either.

This is a tough one. I see a newly married guy feeling torn, I really do. But what a slap in the face to his wife. Idiot.

I wish you good luck on this OP.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

His family were unbelievably rude inviting you and then uninviting you. He should have been as upset about that as you have a reason to be. I would by all means take a vacation alone without him and have a real nice time and go do something he wouldn't want to go do anyway.


----------



## Rus47

GC1234 said:


> In my personal experience, and I'm in a similar boat, it will only get WORSE. You now know that if you are being disrespected by your husband's family, that there will be NO defense for you...you'll be on your own, fighting your own battle and the expectation will be that you SHOULD bite the bullet and deal with it, as your husband has shown you. I'm telling you what I would have done, had I known this was going to be my life before I had kids, I would have booked it for the hills. ie. I would have left and not looked back. Your husband will always pander to his family, you will always come second and he will try to convince you that you're selfish for thinking otherwise, that it's HIS family, and they are important. See the red flags for what they are, it will not change unless your husband WANTS to, and at this moment, it doesn't seem like it.


I will just say that after my “discussion” with my mother, there was a total turnaround. I suspect my father had hand in it too. My discussion then included fact that I chose my wife and if they couldnt treat her as well as they treated me, they would not see me again. Or any future grandchildren. 

From that time there was nothing but respect and kindness toward my wife.


----------



## Rus47

GC1234 said:


> Well then, husband needs to grow a pair and tell the parents, "umm, no, I won't be going on any vacations unless spouses and grandkids are there". If he goes to Hawaii, I wouldn't allow him a place to stay when he comes home.


He needs to take her to Hawaii himself. Just the two of them!! And pick a time ither than when rest if the gang goes. Hawaii is for couples! Her husband can save up some dinero and treat her on next anniversary!


----------



## GC1234

Rus47 said:


> I will just say that after my “discussion” with my mother, there was a total turnaround. I suspect my father had hand in it too. My discussion then included fact that I chose my wife and if they couldnt treat her as well as they treated me, they would not see me again. Or any future grandchildren.
> 
> From that time there was nothing but respect and kindness toward my wife.


Well, you are someone that has b**** and stood up for your wife when you knew your family was in the wrong. That, my friend, is NOT being blindly loyal, and I can appreciate that about you very much!


----------



## Anastasia6

Rus47 said:


> He needs to take her to Hawaii himself. Just the two of them!! And pick a time ither than when rest if the gang goes. Hawaii is for couples! Her husband can save up some dinero and treat her on next anniversary!


This is something he’d do if he cared, problem is he is only upset that she won’t play along. He isn’t upset. He thinks this is all normal. He won’t put his foot down cause he loves mommy most.


----------



## GC1234

Rus47 said:


> He needs to take her to Hawaii himself. Just the two of them!! And pick a time ither than when rest if the gang goes. Hawaii is for couples! Her husband can save up some dinero and treat her on next anniversary!


He does, and not go with the fam, but based on what OP says, it's doubtful. I just suggested that if he chooses to go with his parents and sibs and leave wife behind, then she should tell him not to come home.


----------



## Rus47

GC1234 said:


> He does, and not go with the fam, but based on what OP says, it's doubtful. I just suggested that if he chooses to go with his parents and sibs and leave wife behind, then she should tell him not to come home.


The beginning of our wedding ceremony was “A MAN shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife…” 

Yes indeed, he needs to NOT go anywhere with his parents. Any trips anywhere should be with his wife. Evidently he never grew up. He needs to grow up before he ends up living alone in his parents basement. OP must not bear children by him unless this is totally turned around.


----------



## GC1234

Rus47 said:


> OP must not bear children by him unless this is totally turned around.


Completely agree!


----------



## Harold Demure

I don’t normally agree with violence but your husband needs a giant (metaphorical) kick in the nuts!


----------



## QuietGuy

Maybe you should tell him that you want some alone time on your vacation, but if he wants to take time off, he is welcome to go visit his mommy.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Sorry these new developments make your husband seem even more lame.

I blow my mommy off all the time. She tries to call I hit the decline button.

A man has stuff to do he shouldn’t be dealing with his mommy as a grown adult. The natural order of things is to get away from that and make your own family with your wife.

He needs his friend to slap some sense into him.


----------



## Cynthia

Anastasia6 said:


> Well you are a better woman than me. I didn't get married to vacation alone. But I'd definitely stretch it out and enjoy yourself. You know the grand canyon is about 7 hours from vegas.


Grand Canyon West is about 2 hours from Las Vegas. Here's a link: https://grandcanyonwest.com/get-here/
Next time my husband and I go, we are going to take the helicopter tour. It's a four hour helicopter trip that covers a much larger portion of the canyon than any overlook can.


spicynug said:


> He says it's simply that his mom wants to spend time with her children.


So? He's changing the subject. Make him stick to the subject, which is that he cancelled the vacation you two were going on together based on you two going to Hawaii with his family. He then cancelled your vacation, without consulting you. He planned to leave you at home while he was off vacationing. Make him to stick to your points, because that's what it's all about, his gross lack of concern for your feelings. His changing the subject and making excuses is unacceptable.

It is important that you decide what you require to move past this. Does he go on vacation with his family and you go on your own separate vacation, spending all the money on one person that was meant for two? Or does he pay his parents for the tickets and cancel, then you two go somewhere together? Cancelling with his family shouldn't be a big deal, after all, he had no problem cancelling two of your vacations.


----------



## spicynug

Cynthia said:


> Grand Canyon West is about 2 hours from Las Vegas. Here's a link: https://grandcanyonwest.com/get-here/
> Next time my husband and I go, we are going to take the helicopter tour. It's a four hour helicopter trip that covers a much larger portion of the canyon than any overlook can.
> 
> So? He's changing the subject. Make him stick to the subject, which is that he cancelled the vacation you two were going on together based on you two going to Hawaii with his family. He then cancelled your vacation, without consulting you. He planned to leave you at home while he was off vacationing. Make him to stick to your points, because that's what it's all about, his gross lack of concern for your feelings. His changing the subject and making excuses is unacceptable.
> 
> It is important that you decide what you require to move past this. Does he go on vacation with his family and you go on your own separate vacation, spending all the money on one person that was meant for two? Or does he pay his parents for the tickets and cancel, then you two go somewhere together? Cancelling with his family shouldn't be a big deal, after all, he had no problem cancelling two of your vacations.


Honestly I just want him to understand what he's doing is chipping away at out marriage and WHY. But he won't even try to see my side of things. I guess that pretty much says it all.


----------



## kag123

spicynug said:


> Honestly I just want him to understand what he's doing is chipping away at out marriage and WHY. But he won't even try to see my side of things. I guess that pretty much says it all.


It does and the bigger question is, what are you going to do about it? 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## spicynug

kag123 said:


> It does and the bigger question is, what are you going to do about it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I don’t know I honestly don’t even want to think about it but I know I’m just avoiding


----------



## lifeistooshort

Wanting to spend time with her children is fine if it's lunch or dinner.

You don't book a 10 day vacation in Hawaii without spouses. Period.

And you certainly don't use up your vacation time so you can't go on a planned vacation with your wife so you can placate mommy. As it stands now this guy isn't ready to be married.

The reason he won't "try" to see your side is because there's no defense, and he doesn't think you're going anywhere..

This is your life with this guy. Could he change? Possibly, but there's a good chance he won't.

Want him to "see" your side? Tell him you'll be making other living arrangements while he's gone so he may as well know now so that mommy can comfort him.

I know it seems harsh but your best bet is to take a hard line now. If he really think his marriage will end it'll force him to choose his priorities.

And take your vacation. I'm from AZ and the canyon is amazing. He frankly has even more nerve to imply you shouldn't get a vacation.


----------



## ccpowerslave

spicynug said:


> I don’t know I honestly don’t even want to think about it but I know I’m just avoiding


Is he the kind of guy who responds well to shame? It seems like no.

That’s bad in and of itself, if his reaction is to pull away rather than step up.

What would he do if you just flat out told him to cancel that vacation with his family because he’s coming with you and that’s it?


----------



## spicynug

ccpowerslave said:


> Is he the kind of guy who responds well to shame? It seems like no.
> 
> That’s bad in and of itself, if his reaction is to pull away rather than step up.
> 
> What would he do if you just flat out told him to cancel that vacation with his family because he’s coming with you and that’s it?


I’m not stepping into a second mommy role, he can make his own decisions. I just have to decide what to do about them


----------



## ccpowerslave

spicynug said:


> I’m not stepping into a second mommy role, he can make his own decisions. I just have to decide what to do about them


Maybe you should grab your riding crop and start smacking him around a bit?


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. *We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.*
> Am I overreacting?


You don't have much in the way of "sunk costs", and no children. Not sure how much time you invested before marriage with him. You didn't mention his age, but he obviously is a mommy's boy. BTW, if his parents had been decent they would have given you an all expenses paid trip for two to Hawaii as a wedding present in the first place. It would have cost them no more than they are spending to take sonny boy with them.

If you put up with this, you have a whole lot more to put up with in the future. Maybe an ultimatum is in order. If he goes with his parents he has made his choice, and you will make yours. Men like sonny boy are a dime a dozen, most women wouldn't give them the time of day.


----------



## QuietGuy

If he goes on the trip, do not take his calls or reply to any texts while he is away. When he gets back ask him to write you a prioritized list of the 5 most important things in his life. If you and the marriage are not number 1 you have a clear answer. If you are number 1 on the list he is a liar and should be challenged on it. If he makes you number 1 by lumping you into family you know he is lying. It might at least make him think a little more clearly about his situation.


----------



## Anastasia6

QuietGuy said:


> If he goes on the trip, do not take his calls or reply to any texts while he is away. When he gets back ask him to write you a prioritized list of the 5 most important things in his life. If you and the marriage are not number 1 you have a clear answer. If you are number 1 on the list he is a liar and should be challenged on it. If he makes you number 1 by lumping you into family you know he is lying. It might at least make him think a little more clearly about his situation.


What's the point of making a list. Judge people by actions not by words.


----------



## QuietGuy

Making the list is action. If he is even remotely interested it forces him to declare his priorities in a way that is substantial and can be challenged. It forces him to actually think about what his priorities are. I think that by now he should have done this for himself, but I am sure he hasn't.


----------



## spicynug

QuietGuy said:


> Making the list is action. If he is even remotely interested it forces him to declare his priorities in a way that is substantial and can be challenged. It forces him to actually think about what his priorities are. I think that by now he should have done this for himself, but I am sure he hasn't.


I told him it was clear I wasn’t a priority when we’ve gone back and forth over this issue previously and he just says that’s ridiculous you’re the most important thing in my life. So yeah he says whatever he thinks is the right thing to say but his actions prove otherwise. His list would just be more of the same


----------



## Harold Demure

This is obviously a very serious situation which neither of you should underplay.

Whilst there is no affair, there is serious disrespect to you by your husband and this is the very thing that rocks the foundations of a relationship.

You are rightly entitled to feelings of betrayal and resentment. You are, for the purposes of the vacation, his Plan B and he is being a cake eater. You are not going to feel the same about him ever again and he has lost your trust as well, I imagine, quite a bit of your love.

So, no affair but still the same terminology. He is going to have to do the heavy lifting here to repair all the damage done.

I have to be honest here and say “right, you either say you are not going on that vacation or I will pack the rest of your stuff whilst you are away and deposit it at your mum’s house because that is where you are going to be living”. I would book my own vacation (on my own, with a friend or whatever) to a place synonymous with fun and just go and have a total blast without him.

I would time it to coincide with his holiday but make sure I got back after his return date. Lots of posting on social media #ifyouwanttof*+kwithmethenthinkagain


----------



## Blondilocks

spicynug said:


> I told him it was clear I wasn’t a priority when we’ve gone back and forth over this issue previously and he just says that’s ridiculous *you’re the most important thing in my life. *So yeah he says whatever he thinks is the right thing to say but his actions prove otherwise. His list would just be more of the same


Wouldn't you rather be the most important person in his life rather than the most important appliance? You're his most important wife appliance.


----------



## EI

DownByTheRiver said:


> His family were unbelievably rude inviting you and then uninviting you. He should have been as upset about that as you have a reason to be. *I would by all means take a vacation alone without him and have a real nice time and go do something he wouldn't want to go do anyway.*


I’m just the opposite, I would go do something he *WOULD *want to do. I would take the vacation of his dreams, without him. And, since his parents are paying for the trip your husband is going on, that should leave you with a very generous budget for your solo trip!

My husband and I have five grown children; one daughter, and four sons, all married except for our son with special needs. I would NEVER attempt to come between my children and their spouses. We shower our childrens’ spouses with as much love and affection as we do our children. If a mother raises her son right, she works herself right out of a job! LOL 😊 I love seeing our sons putting their wives and children above everyone and everything else in this world. It tells me that we’ve done something right.

My own mother-in-law is truly my best friend in the whole world. She has always been there for me when I’ve needed her. She’s always been willing to listen and offer emotional support or lend a helping hand when I’ve asked her to. But, she has never tried to come between us. Even when my husband and I went through a very difficult period in our marriage, she chose to remain supportive of us both, as individuals, and as a couple.

I’m sorry this is happening to you, especially when you and your husband are still newlyweds. But, maybe it’s better that it happen now, before you have children. You need to know where you stand with your husband. There can only be one #1 woman in your husband’s life. If you aren’t # 1 now, you never will be.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

EI said:


> I’m just the opposite, I would go do something he *WOULD *want to do. I would take the vacation of his dreams, without him. And, since his parents are paying for the trip your husband is going on, that should leave you with a very generous budget for your solo trip!
> 
> My husband and I have five grown children; one daughter, and four sons, all married except for our son with special needs. I would NEVER attempt to come between my children and their spouses. We shower our childrens’ spouses with as much love and affection as we do our children. If a mother raises her son right, she works herself right out of a job! LOL 😊 I love seeing our sons putting their wives and children above everyone and everything else in this world. It tells me that we’ve done something right.
> 
> My own mother-in-law is truly my best friend in the whole world. She has always been there for me when I’ve needed her. She’s always been willing to listen and offer emotional support or lend a helping hand when I’ve asked her to. But, she has never tried to come between us. Even when my husband and I went through a very difficult period in our marriage, she chose to remain supportive of us both, as individuals, and as a couple.
> 
> I’m sorry this is happening to you, especially when you and your husband are still newlyweds. But, maybe it’s better that it happen now, before you have children. You need to know where you stand with your husband. There can only be one #1 woman in your husband’s life. If you aren’t # 1 now, you never will be.


Yeah, next she'll be inviting him and the baby and not the wife.


----------



## QuietGuy

This is so sad. You thought you married a man, but found out he is only a boy. You can't change him, only he can do that. If you get to the point where you are seriously considering ending the marriage you could try shocking him by moving out of the bedroom and/or taking your wedding ring off. I hope it does not get that far. In the short term, I agree with those that suggest you go on a vacation without him.


----------



## frusdil

Marc878 said:


> *You shouldn’t have to tell him anything.* I wouldn’t say a word. Actions would be swift and merciless as soon as he left. Boom💥


Oh I know, 100% agree.

The biggest problem here, is that OP's husband is clearly not ready to be married. The moment his wife was uninvited he should have bailed. But nope, he didn't and he just continues to dig a bigger hole for himself. He should know how wrong and messed up this whole thing is, but he clearly doesn't, or he does but he's too scared to go against mummy and daddy (ewwww! 🤢)

I'm honestly not sure there's any coming back from this, just picturing myself in this scenario, even if he didn't end up going the damage would already be done. I'd be so full of resentment at the fact that it took several arguments and likely an ultimatum to stop him going, that the marriage would likely just die a slow death anyway.


----------



## Marc878

If she stays she’ll probably get more of what she’s already gotten.


----------



## Cindywife

frusdil said:


> I'm honestly not sure there's any coming back from this, just picturing myself in this scenario, even if he didn't end up going the damage would already be done. I'd be so full of resentment at the fact that it took several arguments and likely an ultimatum to stop him going, that the marriage would likely just die a slow death anyway.


You're correct. This scenario is so bad there's no coming back. 

I don't think she should go on a "revenge" vacation because she won't have a good time so what's the point?

His actions would enrage me and make me feel abandoned which is EXACTLY what he's doing. I would start divorce proceedings. Some women might not but I'd be gone. 

After the marriage was over then I'd take my vacation.


----------



## Harold Demure

Hi. Are you still going to Vegas, I hope so

It was a few years ago but my wife took the Pink Jeep Tour to the Grand Canyon. It was a great drive through a number of sites and offered a different perspective from the helicopter tour.

We also stayed overnight on a ranch at the edge of the Canyon. That was terrific, evening ride through the desert, food and drink around a log fire, log cabin, helicoptered in and out - magic.

Couple of observations;

I would leave brochures etc of your intended trip lying around your place, irrespective of whether you go or not.

If he does go on this trip, make arrangements to go out with friends the evening before and, preferably stay overnight with a friend. Let him see what he is losing!

Finally, time to start the 180!


----------



## BigDaddyNY

EI said:


> I’m just the opposite, I would go do something he *WOULD *want to do. I would take the vacation of his dreams, without him. And, since his parents are paying for the trip your husband is going on, that should leave you with a very generous budget for your solo trip!
> 
> My husband and I have five grown children; one daughter, and four sons, all married except for our son with special needs. I would NEVER attempt to come between my children and their spouses. We shower our childrens’ spouses with as much love and affection as we do our children. If a mother raises her son right, she works herself right out of a job! LOL 😊 I love seeing our sons putting their wives and children above everyone and everything else in this world. It tells me that we’ve done something right.
> 
> My own mother-in-law is truly my best friend in the whole world. She has always been there for me when I’ve needed her. She’s always been willing to listen and offer emotional support or lend a helping hand when I’ve asked her to. But, she has never tried to come between us. Even when my husband and I went through a very difficult period in our marriage, she chose to remain supportive of us both, as individuals, and as a couple.
> 
> I’m sorry this is happening to you, especially when you and your husband are still newlyweds. But, maybe it’s better that it happen now, before you have children. You need to know where you stand with your husband. There can only be one #1 woman in your husband’s life. If you aren’t # 1 now, you never will be.


^^^ This is how it should be. My daughter and son are both in LTRs, my daughter is engaged. They aren't even married and we already treat their SO as a part of the family. They've gone on our annual family vacation for a couple years now. We are actually disappointed if they can't make it to a family event. My wife and I always joke with each other about how we've been replaced as the #1 man or woman in our kids' lives, and that is a good thing! When my future wife and I were at a serious point in our relationship, but not even engaged yet, my parents/grandparents already started treating her like family and she went on family vacation with us and she was expected at every family event.


----------



## jonty30

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


What your husband is doing is wounding your heart and leaving you vulnerable to a future affair. That's not cool.


----------



## Laurentium

I haven't read the whole thread.... are there any children? Is it too late to get out?

I'd say the real problem is with the husband - not with his family.


----------



## Blondilocks

Laurentium said:


> I haven't read the whole thread.... are there any children? Is it too late to get out?
> 
> I'd say the real problem is with the husband - not with his family.


No kids.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> I told him it was clear I wasn’t a priority when we’ve gone back and forth over this issue previously and he just says that’s ridiculous you’re the most important thing in my life. So yeah he says whatever he thinks is the right thing to say but his actions prove otherwise. His list would just be more of the same


Words are cheap. Actions are what count. He shows where you stand by his actions.

Not sure how you ended up marrying him. Usually FOO issues show up early and obvious. IMO you will be way happier with a MAN than with a momma’s boy. Life is too short.


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## Anastasia6

@spicynug so how long did he stay gone? Where did he go and what happened when he came back?


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> @spicynug so how long did he stay gone? Where did he go and what happened when he came back?


He just drove around for 2 hours. He came back I think only because a game was on. Didn’t say a word to me all day. Until after the games of course then had a sudden surge of guilt . Then came to me all mopey saying I shouldn’t have left I’m sorry. I laid it all out again same old stuff I’ve already said. That this is a huge betrayal, I do not trust him to have my back, he’s not my partner, that anything mommy and daddy ask he’ll give. That I do and always will come second after his mommy. He just denied it all said I’m his priority and he would never do something like this again now that he knows it hurt me BUT that he didn’t mean to make me feel second that his family is just close and likes to do stuff together. I told him I won’t continue to be with someone that doesn’t see me as family and absolutely won’t have children with someone who would put us after his parents. He just keeps saying that’s not how it is. I’m sleeping in the spare bedroom.
He’s almost hinting that I’m being controlling trying to stop him spending quality time with his parents and siblings. Like I go on girl trips how is this any different


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> He just drove around for 2 hours. He came back I think only because a game was on. Didn’t say a word to me all day. Until after the games of course then had a sudden surge of guilt . Then came to me all mopey saying I shouldn’t have left I’m sorry. I laid it all out again same old stuff I’ve already said. That this is a huge betrayal, I do not trust him to have my back, he’s not my partner, that anything mommy and daddy ask he’ll give. That I do and always will come second after his mommy. He just denied it all said I’m his priority and he would never do something like this again now that he knows it hurt me BUT that he didn’t mean to make me feel second that his family is just close and likes to do stuff together. I told him I won’t continue to be with someone that doesn’t see me as family and absolutely won’t have children with someone who would put us after his parents. He just keeps saying that’s not how it is. I’m sleeping in the spare bedroom.
> He’s almost hinting that I’m being controlling trying to stop him spending quality time with his parents and siblings. Like I go on girl trips how is this any different


Don't let him gaslight you.

Is he still going to Hawaii?


----------



## spicynug

Cindywife said:


> Don't let him gaslight you.
> 
> Is he still going to Hawaii?


Yeah he’s still going. I’m not going to ask him not to go I think his own decision speaks louder than doing what I ask


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> Yeah he’s still going. I’m not going to ask him not to go I think his own decision speaks louder than doing what I ask


I agree don't ask him not to go. You can say something like "I'm surprised that you think it's appropriate to go to Hawaii without me" And then leave the room.

What you can do is go into protection mode: preparing to be single. This can be anything from seeking legal advice to going shopping for items for yourself that you need and he won't want in case of a divorce.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> He just drove around for 2 hours. He came back I think only because a game was on. Didn’t say a word to me all day. Until after the games of course then had a sudden surge of guilt . Then came to me all mopey saying I shouldn’t have left I’m sorry. I laid it all out again same old stuff I’ve already said. That this is a huge betrayal, I do not trust him to have my back, he’s not my partner, that anything mommy and daddy ask he’ll give. That I do and always will come second after his mommy. He just denied it all said I’m his priority and he would never do something like this again now that he knows it hurt me BUT that he didn’t mean to make me feel second that his family is just close and likes to do stuff together. I told him I won’t continue to be with someone that doesn’t see me as family and absolutely won’t have children with someone who would put us after his parents. He just keeps saying that’s not how it is. I’m sleeping in the spare bedroom.
> He’s almost hinting that I’m being controlling trying to stop him spending quality time with his parents and siblings. Like I go on girl trips how is this any different


So he's saying even though we've been together for 5 years, I just still really don't know how to function like a couple.

With some vague promise that in the future he'll do better. But no action now except to say you are controlling.


Please, Please please to not get trapped into having a child with this man.

ETA: I am also finding it hard to believe he drove around for 2 hours.


----------



## Anastasia6

So spicy do you have a plan for moving forward?

Are you just going to forgive and trust in the future he'll actually have your back?
or what is the plan...


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> So he's saying even though we've been together for 5 years, I just still really don't know how to function like a couple.
> 
> With some vague promise that in the future he'll do better. But no action now except to say you are controlling.
> 
> 
> Please, Please please to not get trapped into having a child with this man.
> 
> ETA: I am also finding it hard to believe he drove around for 2 hours.


Despite living out of his parents house as an adult for several years he has in no way individualized from them.
He probably parked somewhere and looked at memes for 2 hours I can absolutely see that. We moved away from all of our family and friends and haven’t really made any connections in our new city yet so I’m really not suspicious of that. Plus his daddy would never approve of cheating.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> So spicy do you have a plan for moving forward?
> 
> Are you just going to forgive and trust in the future he'll actually have your back?
> or what is the plan...


We’re going to try therapy but I’m still staying in the spare room. I’m not pretending to be happy and fine. If he can’t ever see that his obsession with his parents is coming between us there’s nothing really to fix. I’m still going on my own vacation and won’t hesitate to plan more without him.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> He probably parked somewhere and looked at memes for 2 hours I can absolutely see that.


This was really funny.


----------



## TXTrini

Hi spicynug, 
I've read your thread and I'm so sorry you are dealing with this. Thankfully it's really early on, so you can take control of the trajectory for your life now, before having children (of your own anyway). Your most recent posts suggest he still doesn't take your needs seriously and he's all about himself. Even knowing the pain you're feeling has not made him rethink his plans to take this trip.

Effectively, it's a big FU no matter how "mopey" or apologetic. Quite frankly, this is very unattractive, unsexy behavior and I would communicate that clearly before you guys fall into a parental relationship where you're the bad mommy ccharacter and he's the selfish spoilt little sh1t. Wait... you're already there...



spicynug said:


> He just drove around for 2 hours. He came back I think only because a game was on. Didn’t say a word to me all day. Until after the games of course then had a sudden surge of guilt . Then came to me all mopey saying I shouldn’t have left I’m sorry. I laid it all out again same old stuff I’ve already said. That this is a huge betrayal, I do not trust him to have my back, he’s not my partner, that anything mommy and daddy ask he’ll give. That I do and always will come second after his mommy. He just denied it all said I’m his priority and he would never do something like this again now that he knows it hurt me BUT that he didn’t mean to make me feel second that his family is just close and likes to do stuff together. I told him I won’t continue to be with someone that doesn’t see me as family and absolutely won’t have children with someone who would put us after his parents. He just keeps saying that’s not how it is. I’m sleeping in the spare bedroom.
> He’s almost hinting that I’m being controlling trying to stop him spending quality time with his parents and siblings. Like I go on girl trips how is this any different





spicynug said:


> Yeah he’s still going. I’m not going to ask him not to go I think his own decision speaks louder than doing what I ask


This is disgustingly disrespectful and unloving. 


spicynug said:


> We’re going to try therapy but I’m still staying in the spare room. I’m not pretending to be happy and fine. If he can’t ever see that his obsession with his parents is coming between us there’s nothing really to fix. I’m still going on my own vacation and won’t hesitate to plan more without him.


If he's still going, what's the pointing therapy? You made your feelings known clearly, in enough time for him to make a decision, he chose not to displease his mommy. 

Maybe he should go to counseling with her instead.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> We’re going to try therapy but I’m still staying in the spare room. I’m not pretending to be happy and fine. If he can’t ever see that his obsession with his parents is coming between us there’s nothing really to fix. I’m still going on my own vacation and won’t hesitate to plan more without him.


Just spend the time for therapy talking with shark attorney. Therapy isn’t going to change anything. Be thankful you found this out before you had kids by mommy’s little boy. Count this as a learning to not date a male still living with his parents.


----------



## Openminded

One big difference, I assume, is that you don’t invite him on vacation and then uninvite him. That’s extremely insulting on every level. He doesn’t get it and he isn’t going to get it because that would mean he has to go against what his mom wants and he won’t do that. I was married for a very long time to one of those and it doesn’t work.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> Despite living out of his parents house as an adult for several years he has in no way individualized from them.
> He probably parked somewhere and looked at memes for 2 hours I can absolutely see that. We moved away from all of our family and friends and haven’t really made any connections in our new city yet so I’m really not suspicious of that. Plus his daddy would never approve of cheating.


No I wasn't implying cheating. More like went to eat or something like that.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> No I wasn't implying cheating. More like went to eat or something like that.


Oh gotcha, yeah he could’ve. I’m sure whatever he was doing didn’t involve sitting down and really thinking about how screwed our relationship is. He avoids actually thinking about anything. I’m realizing all of his opinions and probably his whole personality are handed down from mommy and daddy. Like a robot. Freaking mommatron


----------



## lifeistooshort

This a case of it being easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission.

A close family like this only works if the family is welcoming. It's kind of like this with my bf's family....everything revolves around the parents and everyone is close. And we're talking about kids in their 50's and parents in their 80's.

But his parents are very welcoming and I get invited everywhere. And we're not even married, though I have been around for a few years.

I wouldn't even show any more emotion over this. Tell him to do what he wants and you'll make your decisions accordingly.

This is come to Jesus time.


----------



## TXTrini

lifeistooshort said:


> This a case of it being easier to ask for forgiveness then for permission.
> 
> A close family like this only works if the family is welcoming. It's kind of like this with my bf's family....everything revolves around the parents and everyone is close. And we're talking about kids in their 50's and parents in their 80's.
> 
> But his parents are very welcoming and I get invited everywhere. And we're not even married, though I have been around for a few years.
> 
> I wouldn't even show any more emotion over this. Tell him to do what he wants and you'll make your decisions accordingly.
> 
> This is come to Jesus time.


This!!!! 

FFS, don't get hung up on how much time you've invested or his potential, he's giving you an inkling as to what your life will be like. You're going to end up hating him if you have children, and he's still asking mommy when/where he can poop. 

You're still young and can easily start over with an adult, especially if you want children. Men like this need a rude awakening to grow up if they ever do.


----------



## re16

lifeistooshort said:


> I wouldn't even show any more emotion over this. Tell him to do what he wants and you'll make your decisions accordingly.


This is good advice here. The main problem with this whole thing is the permanent rift that it is driving between you and his family, at least in your husband's mind. Dangerous territory for a mamma's boy to be in.

10 days is also ridiculous, like couldn't you have gone and they have one dinner together or something like that?

How long before this trip happens? It seems you'll be operating with an elephant in the room for a while.


----------



## minimalME

I don't know how you're gonna sit through Christmas. I'd have a horrendous attitude. 😐


----------



## spicynug

re16 said:


> This is good advice here. The main problem with this whole thing is the permanent rift that it is driving between you and his family, at least in your husband's mind. Dangerous territory for a mamma's boy to be in.
> 
> 10 days is also ridiculous, like couldn't you have gone and they have one dinner together or something like that?
> 
> How long before this trip happens? It seems you'll be operating with an elephant in the room for a while.


They don’t even know for sure, the trip has been rescheduled once already because his sister is a doctor and has a tough schedule. So basically he’s cool to just sit around until mommy rings his bell, and he thinks that’s ok that we can’t make plans because of this.


----------



## spicynug

minimalME said:


> I don't know how you're gonna sit through Christmas. I'd have a horrendous attitude. 😐


I think I’m probably going to make plans with my own family and friends back home


----------



## re16

spicynug said:


> They don’t even know for sure, the trip has been rescheduled once already because his sister is a doctor and has a tough schedule. So basically he’s cool to just sit around until mommy rings his bell, and he thinks that’s ok that we can’t make plans because of this.


Ouch. You'd think he'd use that as an easy way out of the trip, or claim he can only join for a short period.

I think you have a pretty major red flag going on here in your relationship.


----------



## re16

Here's a question, what is his mother's relationship like with her MIL (Your FIL's mother)?

I have a feeling she dislikes her husband doing anything with his mother.


----------



## spicynug

re16 said:


> Here's a question, what is his mother's relationship like with her MIL (Your FIL's mother)?
> 
> I have a feeling she dislikes her husband doing anything with his mother.


The grandparents are all dead so I’m not sure.


----------



## TXTrini

spicynug said:


> They don’t even know for sure, the trip has been rescheduled once already because his sister is a doctor and has a tough schedule. So basically he’s cool to just sit around until mommy rings his bell, and he thinks that’s ok that we can’t make plans because of this.


And you're supposed to be ok in limbo for an indeterminate length of time?? I'd have a complete ****fit and throw his ass out.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> Oh gotcha, yeah he could’ve. I’m sure whatever he was doing didn’t involve sitting down and really thinking about how screwed our relationship is. He avoids actually thinking about anything. I’m realizing all of his opinions and probably his whole personality are handed down from mommy and daddy. Like a robot. Freaking mommatron


Vette your next prospective husband much more carefully. Thankfully you have dodged a very unhappy life going forward. Many of both genders find out they married a "dud" in one or more respect long after they walk down the aisle, after the kids begin arriving.

Just curious, surely you had dealings with his mommy and daddy and siblings before walking down the aisle? Did they hide the family dynamic? Usually there are enough interactions to spot issues before agreeing to marry someone. But one way to see what is actually going on is to force the prospective spouse to choose between spending time with mom n dad n siblings or spending time with you. Any man worth considering will of course choose his gf before mom n dad once he reaches puberty.


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> Vette your next prospective husband much more carefully. Thankfully you have dodged a very unhappy life going forward. Many of both genders find our they married a "dud" in one or more respect.
> 
> Just curious, surely you had dealings with his mommy and daddy and siblings before walking down the aisle? Did they hide the family dynamic? Usually there are enough interactions to spot issues before agreeing to marry someone. But one way to see what is actually going on is to force the prospective spouse to choose between spending time with mom n dad n siblings or spending time with you. Any man worth considering will of course choose his gf before mom n dad once he reaches puberty.


They were close but I never felt pushed out like this


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> They were close but I never felt pushed out like this


Well, my mom was always kind and inclusive with my wife-to-be also. It was after we had been married about six months the disrespect started showing, I came home from work to find my wife in tears. Fixed that real quick with her listening I called my mother and told her how her disrespecting my wife was same as disrespecting me and it wasn't acceptable. If she wanted to ever see me again, an apology was required. That was the last of anything like that.


----------



## Anastasia6

You know your situation is bad to me. But some people do live their whole lives deferring to the MIL or FIL or both. Usually they come from FOO that have extended families that frequently live together. That being said those same FOO usually would invite both spouses. So I don't know how or why this situation happened. '

I just don't see a way forward; 

I don't see how counselling will suddenly make your husband a better person. It may 'enlighten' him or the counselor could say BS about you not letting him go with family. I don't trust counselors. I've never been to one but my experience with those I know who went to them. .... It didn't help.

I see your plan seems to be... Counseling hoping it will help him break away from his mommy issues. Based on his starting position, I dont' see it. He may 'change if the counselor says that he needs to consider you but i don't think it will be genuine and I don't want to have to fight with my spouse to be number 1 in their list. You either are or you aren't.

The other plan, tit for tat. I completely agree with making Christmas plans with your family. However, long term tit for tat makes marriage a war. No body wants to live in a war zone. I'd say Christmas away gives him a taste after that you have to move forward. You may want to think about inviting him to Christmas with your family and see if he picks you over his family. Some would call this a **** test... Maybe it is. But if he choose Christmas with his family over you AND the trip I'd be done...


----------



## ccpowerslave

Rus handled it right. If you mess with my wife it makes me more angry than if you mess with me by an order of magnitude.


----------



## Anastasia6

ccpowerslave said:


> Rus handled it right. If you mess with my wife it makes me more angry than if you mess with me by an order of magnitude.


yes but her husband didn't. So how should OP proceed? You can make your husband a man or good husband can you?


----------



## ccpowerslave

Anastasia6 said:


> yes but her husband didn't. So how should OP proceed? You can make your husband a man or good husband can you?


Well if you want to try then he probably needs a good old fashioned talking to in terms of an ultimatum like either you:

Tell your family I will be attending
Tell your family you will not be attending

The alternative is bad for you because it means we’re on a path towards separation.

Then you’ll see one way or the other.


----------



## spicynug

ccpowerslave said:


> Well if you want to try then he probably needs a good old fashioned talking to in terms of an ultimatum like either you:
> 
> Tell your family I will be attending
> Tell your family you will not be attending
> 
> The alternative is bad for you because it means we’re on a path towards separation.
> 
> Then you’ll see one way or the other.


I’m not going to spend that long with people who don’t want me around. He’s already shown me he wants to go if I ask him not to that doesn’t change the fact that I’m still 2nd to his mommy. He can make his own choice and I’ll eventually make mine


----------



## Anastasia6

You see it's like a catch 22

If you tell him he has to cancel or you are leaving or what ever you decide to do then you are policing his feelings/desires which is controlling. 

However if he chooses to go on this trip then he is showing you he doesn't value you.

So how do you navigate that?


----------



## ccpowerslave

spicynug said:


> I’m not going to spend that long with people who don’t want me around. He’s already shown me he wants to go if I ask him not to that doesn’t change the fact that I’m still 2nd to his mommy. He can make his own choice and I’ll eventually make mine


Well you’re not wrong so no argument from me.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I think I’m probably going to make plans with my own family and friends back home


I'm sure your friends and family will be very happy to have you home for the holidays. You need a good support system of ppl you trust.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Anastasia6 said:


> If you tell him he has to cancel or you are leaving or what ever you decide to do then you are policing his feelings/desires which is controlling.


There’s that label again.

It’s not controlling anyway, it’s giving him a choice A or B. He can choose whichever he wants, there’s no control there.


----------



## Anastasia6

ccpowerslave said:


> There’s that label again.
> 
> It’s not controlling anyway, it’s giving him a choice A or B. He can choose whichever he wants, there’s no control there.


I guess my view is he has already made him choice. She has also already expressed her unhappiness. He has already indicated that doesn't change his plans. So at what point does it become her wishes only. 

I think she is right. I think he shouldn't go but I wouldn't want to be with a man that I had to ultimatum him into that.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Anastasia6 said:


> You know your situation is bad to me. But some people do live their whole lives deferring to the MIL or FIL or both. Usually they come from FOO that have extended families that frequently live together. That being said those same FOO usually would invite both spouses. So I don't know how or why this situation happened. '
> 
> I just don't see a way forward;
> 
> I don't see how counselling will suddenly make your husband a better person. It may 'enlighten' him or the counselor could say BS about you not letting him go with family. I don't trust counselors. I've never been to one but my experience with those I know who went to them. .... It didn't help.
> 
> I see your plan seems to be... Counseling hoping it will help him break away from his mommy issues. Based on his starting position, I dont' see it. He may 'change if the counselor says that he needs to consider you but i don't think it will be genuine and I don't want to have to fight with my spouse to be number 1 in their list. *You either are or you aren't.*
> 
> The other plan, tit for tat. I completely agree with making Christmas plans with your family. *However, long term tit for tat makes marriage a war. No body wants to live in a war zone. * I'd say Christmas away gives him a taste after that you have to move forward. You may want to think about inviting him to Christmas with your family and see if he picks you over his family. Some would call this a **** test... Maybe it is. But if he choose Christmas with his family over you AND the trip I'd be done...


Damn straight.....this nails it


----------



## frusdil

Anastasia6 said:


> You know your situation is bad to me. But some people do live their whole lives deferring to the MIL or FIL or both. Usually they come from FOO that have extended families that frequently live together. That being said those same FOO usually would invite both spouses. So I don't know how or why this situation happened. '
> 
> I just don't see a way forward;
> 
> I don't see how counselling will suddenly make your husband a better person. It may 'enlighten' him or the counselor could say BS about you not letting him go with family. I don't trust counselors. I've never been to one but my experience with those I know who went to them. .... It didn't help.
> 
> I see your plan seems to be... Counseling hoping it will help him break away from his mommy issues. Based on his starting position, I dont' see it. He may 'change if the counselor says that he needs to consider you but i don't think it will be genuine and I don't want to have to fight with my spouse to be number 1 in their list. You either are or you aren't.
> 
> The other plan, tit for tat. I completely agree with making Christmas plans with your family. However, long term tit for tat makes marriage a war. No body wants to live in a war zone. I'd say Christmas away gives him a taste after that you have to move forward. You may want to think about inviting him to Christmas with your family and see if he picks you over his family. Some would call this a **** test... Maybe it is. But if he choose Christmas with his family over you AND the trip I'd be done...


All of this ^^.

I would pack my bags and leave, leave him a note saying "You made your choice, now I've made mine, see you at the lawyers office".


----------



## re16

Are you hearing all this news from your husband directly and only him? Any chance he is the one excluding you?

Maybe you should talk to the MIL and ask her how she would feel in your shoes.... might be the only path to possibly fixing this.


----------



## spicynug

re16 said:


> Are you hearing all this news from your husband directly and only him? Any chance he is the one excluding you?
> 
> Maybe you should talk to the MIL and ask her how she would feel in your shoes.... might be the only path to possibly fixing this.


They’ve all talked about being excited to go then rescheduling in front of me. So I know it’s MILs plan. She would just say she didn’t intend for anyone to feel left out that she just wanted to spend time with her kids. The whole family has main character syndrome


----------



## TXTrini

spicynug said:


> They’ve all talked about being excited to go then rescheduling in front of me. So I know it’s MILs plan. She would just say she didn’t intend for anyone to feel left out that she just wanted to spend time with her kids. The whole family has main character syndrome


Can you deal with a lifetime of this?

I had a MIL like this, but not nearly as bad (married 12.5 yrs, together just over 19). One day, I asked my exH, when was it my turn to be happy, b/c his family's constant crisis and attention-sucking behavior was draining the life out of me and always commandeering his full attention and priority. Nothing I did was ever good enough, she'd make negative comments if she didn't like something and always expected to be consulted when we made any decision.

I got fed up with toeing the line in the last few years of my marriage, then discovered all of that crap was not at all worth it, b/c my exH was a lying, cheat. Btw, I'm not saying your H will cheat, just that you might regret all that effort one day if you end up with nothing to show for it, or extra hardship if you two have kids.

Have you two talked yet today? Any hint of him coming around, any change in attitude, or lightbulb moments?


----------



## spicynug

TXTrini said:


> Can you deal with a lifetime of this?
> 
> I had a MIL like this, but not nearly as bad (married 12.5 yrs, together just over 19). One day, I asked my exH, when was it my turn to be happy, b/c his family's constant crisis and attention-sucking behavior was draining the life out of me and always commandeering his full attention and priority. Nothing I did was ever good enough, she'd make negative comments if she didn't like something and always expected to be consulted when we made any decision.
> 
> I got fed up with toeing the line in the last few years of my marriage, then discovered all of that crap was not at all worth it, b/c my exH was a lying, cheat. Btw, I'm not saying your H will cheat, just that you might regret all that effort one day if you end up with nothing to show for it, or extra hardship if you two have kids.
> 
> Have you two talked yet today? Any hint of him coming around, any change in attitude, or lightbulb moments?


No we haven’t spoken today. He won’t come around because he doesn’t have his own thoughts they all have to come from his mom and dad.


----------



## Mr. Nail

Two things that happened in the early years of my marriage are relevant to to your situation.
First when we got married my mother to me aside one day and told me not to come to her house without my wife. I was second child and this was her rule in order to not get between husbands and wives. I know this doesn't help you, but it is an example of how a healthy family operates with good boundaries and no over controlling.
Second, in the second year of our marriage my FIL invited us to tour with him to his extended family for 2 weeks. I could not do that and maintain my employment. It is a bit similar to your husband sleeping on a fold out for 10 days away from you. My wife traveled thousands of miles that summer with her parents and siblings and a newborn (6 month old). Now with that in my rear view mirror, I can not imagine your husband of such a short time volunteering to sleep alone 10 nights in an uncomfortable bed. Does the man have no sex drive? Not to be crude . . . well actually to be crude, he won't have so much as a chance at a quick wank in the shower. 
Anyway I stayed home and they had their one last family adventure. When they returned FIL couldn't figure for his life why we didn't want to go out to dinner. Which illustrates that parents can sometimes be clueless.

We are now at 34 years and independent vacationing is a thing. Our interests have diverged. 10 days without sex is the rule not the exception. And I can go to mom's house alone now.


----------



## TXTrini

spicynug said:


> No we haven’t spoken today. He won’t come around because he doesn’t have his own thoughts they all have to come from his mom and dad.


I guess he's one of those people who have to burn to learn. Well, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and know what you have to do. So, act when you're ready. We're here if you need support through this, it's hard now, but one day you'll look back with no regrets.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> No we haven’t spoken today. He won’t come around because he doesn’t have his own thoughts they all have to come from his mom and dad.


You know you can very easily find someone better than this one. Not sure how you selected him or what the attraction was, surely the mommas boy exhibited somehow. Hopefully you have learned how to avoid a repeat. Send him back to mommy and let her rock him on her lap. What a pathetic excuse for a male. He is a disgrace to the gender.


----------



## spicynug

TXTrini said:


> I guess he's one of those people who have to burn to learn. Well, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and know what you have to do. So, act when you're ready. We're here if you need support through this, it's hard now, but one day you'll look back with no regrets.


Thanks so much, I didn’t expect to get so much feedback. I honestly expected to hear that I was being needy/controlling and I definitely don’t feel like the crazy one anymore.


----------



## Prodigal

I'll tell you what I find so damn disgusting about this: UNinviting you. R-U-D-E. Your husband and his family sound like they live in some insulated bubble where THEIR way is the RIGHT way, and they have no desire to entertain different opinions. And that's the rub here. You either get with the program on HIS terms, or you learn to suck it up.

This man isn't husband material. He isn't father material. You deserve much better than this. Seriously.


----------



## Livvie

Now that it's rescheduled there is no reason spouses can't be invited, too. What's the reasoning now why you can't go? They extra room thing from the original date is no longer a thing because the date has been moved and there is no current reservation for any specific date.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> Thanks so much, I didn’t expect to get so much feedback. I honestly expected to hear that I was being needy/controlling and I definitely don’t feel like the crazy one anymore.


You're definitely not the crazy one unless you stay with this guy.

You don't need to make any big decisions tonight but like I said it would be in your best interest to go into protection mode. Buy work clothes, needed shoes, winter coats, undergarments, buy all your Christmas gifts ASAP...you get the idea.


----------



## Cindywife

Livvie said:


> Now that it's rescheduled there is no reason spouses can't be invited, too. What's the reasoning now why you can't go? They extra room thing from the original date is no longer a thing because the date has been moved and there is no current reservation for any specific date.


You know what, after what she's been though she shouldn't go. What for?


----------



## spicynug

Livvie said:


> Now that it's rescheduled there is no reason spouses can't be invited, too. What's the reasoning now why you can't go? They extra room thing from the original date is no longer a thing because the date has been moved and there is no current reservation for any specific date.


He told me that when his dad first called him to let him know that I was no longer invited to come along he asked him if it would be possible for me to still come and for my husband and I to just get our own room. His dad said his mom didn’t want spouses coming along. So it’s just his mom saying no. And him listening to her.


----------



## Livvie

Cindywife said:


> You know what, after what she's been though she shouldn't go. What for?


I was asking about the reasoning. Not recommending that she go.


----------



## Livvie

spicynug said:


> He told me that when his dad first called him to let him know that I was no longer invited to come along he asked him if it would be possible for me to still come and for my husband and I to just get our own room. His dad said his mom didn’t want spouses coming along. So it’s just his mom saying no. And him listening to her.


Holy ****. This is the twist that really makes it a bad situation. 

Yes, I would definitely make the decision to terminate the marriage given these facts.

I can't believe he's going. Holy ****, again.


----------



## lifeistooshort

frusdil said:


> All of this ^^.
> 
> I would pack my bags and leave, leave him a note saying "You made your choice, now I've made mine, see you at the lawyers office".


I would absolutely take this advice.

The thing is that you don't have to follow through with a divorce if there were to come a point where you think he really gets it. I doubt it will happen but any chance that it could will come if he really thinks his marriage will end.

A lot of people don't take a hard line early and that is viewed as acceptance and it will happen again.


----------



## Robert22205

Wow.... I’m so sorry. I didn't realize you're newly weds. 

IMO this makes his parents' request (and your husband's agreement to abandon his bride) a thousand times worse. 

There are many toxic self centered situations/families/people – you can’t change him or his family - but that doesn't mean you have to accept it.

You have a right to live the best version of your life, including being a respected & equal member of your life partner's family.

IMO, unless he's stupid, he's pretending to not understand what you are saying. IMO he understands that his parents are being unfair to you and that he hurt & disrespected you by agreeing to exclude you. 

His mother gets what she wants; your husband gets what he wants (their approval) - and you're the one that pays for their self centered toxic behavior. Your husband is complicit in abusing you (and someday your kids) and this will only stop when you put an end to it.

I don't think you should become like them and retaliate in kind. I think you should make your stand now or learn to live with the abuse.


----------



## spicynug

Robert22205 said:


> Wow.... I’m so sorry. I didn't realize you're newly weds.
> 
> IMO this makes his parents' request (and your husband's agreement to abandon his bride) a thousand times worse.
> 
> There are many toxic self centered situations/families/people – you can’t change him or his family - but that doesn't mean you have to accept it.
> 
> You have a right to live the best version of your life, including being a respected & equal member of your life partner's family.
> 
> IMO, unless he's stupid, he's pretending to not understand what you are saying. IMO he understands that his parents are being unfair to you and that he hurt & disrespected you by agreeing to exclude you.
> 
> His mother gets what she wants; your husband gets what he wants (their approval) - and you're the one that pays for their self centered toxic behavior. Your husband is complicit in abusing you (and someday your kids) and this will only stop when you put an end to it.
> 
> I don't think you should become like them and retaliate in kind. I think you should make your stand now or learn to live with the abuse.


The reason I’m still going on a trip in April is because that trip we cancelled was my bday trip and I’m not sitting home just because he’s decided they’re more important than me. We usually travel somewhere new together for our bdays instead of getting gifts because you know memories are more valuable, this is going to be one hell of a memory.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> The reason I’m still going on a trip in April is because that trip we cancelled was my bday trip and I’m not sitting home just because he’s decided they’re more important than me. We usually travel somewhere new together for our bdays instead of getting gifts because you know memories are more valuable, this is going to be one hell of a memory.


Sometimes ppl are mean and selfish. It's not your fault. You seem like a very sweet person who got mixed up with the wrong family.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> The reason I’m still going on a trip in April is because that trip we cancelled was my bday trip and I’m not sitting home just because he’s decided they’re more important than me. We usually travel somewhere new together for our bdays instead of getting gifts because you know memories are more valuable, this is going to be one hell of a memory.


Ok so not only did he cancel a trip you two had planned to go on a trip with your parents that you were UNINVITED from now we find out that this was YOUR Birthday trip.

Ok. So what is attractive about this guy? He must have lots of money, be a real charmer, and make you multi-orgasmic.


----------



## QuietGuy

Sadly I think that even if you got a reasonable solution to this incident it would be because your husband played the victim to your MIL and laid it all at your feet. I just don't see him ever sticking his chest out and telling his Mom that he will not tolerate her treating you this way. I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see it happening.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> Ok so not only did he cancel a trip you two had planned to go on a trip with your parents that you were UNINVITED from now we find out that this was YOUR Birthday trip.
> 
> Ok. So what is attractive about this guy? He must have lots of money, be a real charmer, and make you multi-orgasmic.


He was just a normal decent human I thought. This was pretty unexpected like if I had to guess would he do something like this I’d have said no of course not he loves me he’s always shown me that he does. Then he did something like this I’m having to reevaluate.


----------



## Robert22205

IMO your husband knows exactly why he failed as a life partner. In order to protect yourself you should research and be prepared to exit the marriage:

1 - seek individual counseling (IC) for yourself with a therapist experienced with bullying and abuse
2 - talk to an attorney (to eliminate uncertainty, take control of you life, as well as make a statement)
3 - separate your bank accounts 

Forget MC. It shares the blame for marriage issues. Your marriage doesn't need fixing (your husband is broken).

With respect to your husband going to IC, he needs to do more than just talk with someone. He needs to acknowlege his behavior is abusive to you; and then develop and implement a plan of action to correct his abusive behavior, including establishing boundaries with his parents.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> He was just a normal decent human I thought. This was pretty unexpected like if I had to guess would he do something like this I’d have said no of course not he loves me he’s always shown me that he does. Then he did something like this I’m having to reevaluate.


Well I feel this is really showing two things. His self centeredness. Face it he's going to Hawaii because he wants to. AND he putting his mom before you, otherwise he'd cancel with them and book something for you two. Either keeping your b-day trip or your own Hawaii trip even if it had to be smaller like 5 days or later like in a year or two of saving.

Of course people are married to both self-centered and momma's boys, but not too many that I know are happily married to self-centered mommas boys. 

The fact that you've let him know you were upset and he just stomps and say basically, well I want to go and you just don't want me to spend time with my family.... He shows no regard for you at all. Just words. Words are so cheap.

I am usually for trying to work on things that aren't like cheating or abusive but this is just a lifetime of hurt waiting for you.


----------



## Prodigal

spicynug said:


> The reason I’m still going on a trip in April is because that trip we cancelled was my bday trip and I’m not sitting home just because he’s decided they’re more important than me.


Look, I realize we're telling you to just walk out on this marriage. Easier said than done, right? But here's the thing: Your husband has drawn a line in the sand. You may stay. You may hope things will get better. You may decide to just suck it up. But he's told you how he feels. His mommy takes precedence over you. And he doesn't "understand" your issue with him flying off to Hawaii with his immediate family. As time goes on, I'm fairly certain there will be other things that matter to you which he won't "understand."

You are young, haven't been married that long, and have no children. I generally don't advise divorce-right-away. But your husband is showing you who he is. Please don't remain in this situation until you turn around and realize you aren't so young anymore. You WILL regret that.


----------



## kag123

Have you seen the series White Lotus on HBO? One of the lead characters is a husband and wife on their honeymoon and the husband is a total mommy's boy. It is who I picture when I read this thread, but I am hoping he's not that bad. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Marc878

If it were me as soon as he left for the trip I’d cut off all contact and have D papers prepared and have him served on his return. Any time spent talking is a waste of your breath.

You made a mistake marrying into this mess. A great opportunity to correct it.

If you stay then you will be your biggest problem.


----------



## jonty30

Marc878 said:


> If it were me as soon as he left for the trip I’d cut off all contact and have D papers prepared and have him served on his return. Any time spent talking is a waste of your breath.
> 
> You made a mistake marrying into this mess. A great opportunity to correct it.
> 
> If you stay then you will be your biggest problem.


I have no doubt the mother-in-law thinks she is below him in value.
I had that experience with a girlfriend, when the girlfriend asked her mother why she didn't want her to date me. 
That's what the mother said. 
I ended the relationship right there and, having looked her up on Facebook out of curiousity, I find that she's now permanently alone. 
Her mother wrecked her life out of vanity.


----------



## Marc878

jonty30 said:


> I have no doubt the mother-in-law thinks she is below him in value.
> I had that experience with a girlfriend, when the girlfriend asked her mother why she didn't want her to date me.
> That's what the mother said.
> I ended the relationship right there and, having looked her up on Facebook out of curiousity, I find that she's now permanently alone.
> Her mother wrecked her life out of vanity.


The thing is FOO issues run deep. She probably turned out just like her mother. Good call.


----------



## jonty30

Marc878 said:


> The thing is FOO issues run deep. She probably turned out just like her mother. Good call.


She wasn't anything like her mother, but she did have some medical issues that would have made any long term relationship a challenge.
Her mother simply overestimated the kind of guy that she thought her daughter could land and made a point of pushing me out so her daughter could land that kind of guy.
It worked out well for me in the long run. 
She was pleasant, but her mother was not/


----------



## frusdil

spicynug said:


> The reason I’m still going on a trip in April is because *that trip we cancelled was my bday trip* and I’m not sitting home just because he’s decided they’re more important than me. We usually travel somewhere new together for our bdays instead of getting gifts because you know memories are more valuable, this is going to be one hell of a memory.


Omg wtf? That makes it 100x worse!

Oh honey, I'm sorry.


----------



## Harold Demure

YOUR BIRTHDAY TRIP? For the love of god …..

So very sorry this is happening to you. You deserve so much better. At least you have seen what your future married life would look like.

I agree with those posters who suggest you use the time away to get D papers drawn up.

You are doing him a favour really because this would be present every day for the rest of your married life.

Can you get him served at the hotel in Hawaii?

You don’t have to wait until the holiday to make changes to your life.

I hope you have a good support network around you or that you have a place to go where you will have one.

I would most definitely start going out evenings with friends on a very regular basis, excluding him of course, and making sure I made arrangements in front of him.

I would also separate any joint finances and make sure I was not included in any joint debt. 

Have you gone no contact with his family yet? Why should you have them discuss this trip in front of you?


----------



## frusdil

I wouldn't be playing games OP, like planning trips away on your own or going out all the time without him. This is serious. This is "come to Jesus" stuff. I'd be seeking legal advice and having him served. Remember - you can stop proceedings at any stage, you don't have to go through with it if he suddenly has an epiphany.


----------



## Harold Demure

frusdil said:


> I wouldn't be playing games OP, like planning trips away on your own or going out all the time without him. This is serious. This is "come to Jesus" stuff. I'd be seeking legal advice and having him served. Remember - you can stop proceedings at any stage, you don't have to go through with it if he suddenly has an epiphany.


Frusdil,

I quite agree with what you are suggesting. 

My suggestions were AS WELL AS, not instead of.


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> He says it's simply that his mom wants to spend time with her children.


What's wrong with that? Can you just accept they are a very close family and they want to spend some time together as a unit? Just them? Once in a while? Are you really going to ruin your marriage for such silly thing? Granted, he should have asked you first, but he didn't because he thought you would understand that. You are asking him to chose between you and his family. You are blowing this completely out of proportions.


----------



## Marc878

You’ll never fix him. It’s doubtful he can either. Know your worth and take it elsewhere. I’d let him be someone else’s problem.


----------



## Rus47

My MIL was one of the kindest, quiet, loving people have ever met. Just like her daughter who I was blessed to meet and marry. MIL would often invite me to dinner when came for date her daughter. We would all eat together and talk, then off on our date. The MIL told us together when we engaged that she would never offer advice about anything unasked. And she never did. The wife's family were poor FINANCIALLY, rich in everything that counted.


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> What's wrong with that? Can you just accept they are a very close family and they want to spend some time together as a unit? Just them? Once in a while? Are you really going to ruin your marriage for such silly thing? Granted, he should have asked you first, but he didn't because he thought you would understand that. You are asking him to chose between you and his family. You are blowing this completely out of proportions.


No I think it’s pretty weird that his mom would expect her adult, married children to willingly play “the good old days before spouses” as she put it. If my family had invited my husband and then told me nevermind he can’t come I’d have said thanks but no thanks I’m not having something come between us. But my family would never take the stance that my husband isn’t family.


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> What's wrong with that? Can you just accept they are a very close family and they want to spend some time together as a unit? Just them? Once in a while? Are you really going to ruin your marriage for such silly thing? Granted, he should have asked you first, but he didn't because he thought you would understand that. You are asking him to chose between you and his family. You are blowing this completely out of proportions.


So...would YOU have CANCELLED a trip _you already had planned_ with your wife so you could go to Hawaii with your parents, INSTEAD, and this would also burn up all of your vacation time for the year so the only trip you'd be able to take would be this one, with your parents? You would have done that to your wife of one year?


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> No I think it’s pretty weird that his mom would expect her adult, married children to willingly play “the good old days before spouses” as she put it. If my family had invited my husband and then told me nevermind he can’t come I’d have said thanks but no thanks I’m not having something come between us. But my family would never take the stance that my husband isn’t family.


They are all going, so it can't be just his mum expecting them to go? They must enjoy it, or they all bonkers. I think you are missing the fact that they ALL want to go. You are prepared to throw away your marriage for this?


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> So...would YOU have CANCELLED a trip _you already had planned_ with your wife so you could go to Hawaii with your parents, INSTEAD, and this would also burn up all of your vacation time for the year so the only trip you'd be able to take would be this one, with your parents? You would have done that to your wife of one year?


I thought they were going together and then he changed his mind and was going on his own because the family wanted to be together. Just the family. Nothing wrong with that. His mistake was not asking his wife first. And she is asking him to choose between his family and his wife and that's not fair either. He's made a mistake, he has apologised ans she won't have it.


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> I thought they were going together and then he changed his mind and was going on his own because the family wanted to be together. Just the family. Nothing wrong with that. His mistake was not asking his wife first. And she is asking him to choose between his family and his wife and that's not fair either. He's made a mistake, he has apologised ans she won't have it.


He didn’t even consider that being uninvited and cancelling our already planned vacation would hurt my feelings. His mom asked him to choose and he did.


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> I thought they were going together and then he changed his mind and was going on his own because the family wanted to be together. Just the family. Nothing wrong with that. His mistake was not asking his wife first. And she is asking him to choose between his family and his wife and that's not fair either. He's made a mistake, he has apologised ans she won't have it.


And he could spend time with his family any weekend of the month and does on a regular basis.

You are over simplifying this and conveniently leaving out all the hurtful details. Let's recap.

Wife and husband is invited for a 10 day trip to Hawaii. They cancel a wife's birthday trip so that they can go together to Hawaii. She is uninvited by the MIL and husband agrees to go anyway even though his wife is now uninvited and she has cancelled her birthday trip with her husband who now won't have enough leave to travel with her because the trip is 10 days. She expresses her concern and he leaves the house and refuses to contemplate how disrespectful it is to uninvite her, cancel her trip, and go to Hawaii for 10days leaving your spouse at home and unable to share a trip. He continues to leave without communicating and doesn't do it.

You may find this ok. Some people live their whole married life with In-laws who have no concern for them. Some people live their whole life with spouses who put their extended family ahead of them. Some people go their whole lives being disrespected and treated like a 2nd class citizen their whole lives. We are simply advising the OP to think about if that is the way she wants to live her whole life.


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> He didn’t even consider that being uninvited and cancelling our already planned vacation would hurt my feelings. His mom asked him to choose and he did.


Because he didn't think you would be so hurt. And he made a mistake. And he has apologised. And he is still going because it's his family, he really wants to see them like the old times, without partners, and it's a one off. How would you like it if he made you choose between him and your family? Just let him go. He will enjoy himself and he will come back happy and full of love for you. Don't break your marriage over this...


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> Because he didn't think you would be so hurt. And he made a mistake. And he has apologised. And he is still going because it's his family, he really wants to see them like the old times, without partners, and it's a one off. How would you like it if he made you choose between him and your family? Just let him go. He will enjoy himself and he will come back happy and full of love for you. Don't break your marriage over this...


My family would never put me in that position. They know he IS my family now


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> Because he didn't think you would be so hurt. And he made a mistake. And he has apologised. And he is still going because it's his family, he really wants to see them like the old times, without partners, and it's a one off. How would you like it if he made you choose between him and your family? Just let him go. He will enjoy himself and he will come back happy and full of love for you. Don't break your marriage over this...


These things are never a one off.


----------



## In Absentia

Anastasia6 said:


> And he could spend time with his family any weekend of the month and does on a regular basis.
> 
> You are over simplifying this and conveniently leaving out all the hurtful details. Let's recap.
> 
> Wife and husband is invited for a 10 day trip to Hawaii. They cancel a wife's birthday trip so that they can go together to Hawaii. She is uninvited by the MIL and husband agrees to go anyway even though his wife is now uninvited and she has cancelled her birthday trip with her husband who now won't have enough leave to travel with her because the trip is 10 days. She expresses her concern and he leaves the house and refuses to contemplate how disrespectful it is to uninvite her, cancel her trip, and go to Hawaii for 10days leaving your spouse at home and unable to share a trip. He continues to leave without communicating and doesn't do it.
> 
> You may find this ok. Some people live their whole married life with In-laws who have no concern for them. Some people live their whole life with spouses who put their extended family ahead of them. Some people go their whole lives being disrespected and treated like a 2nd class citizen their whole lives. We are simply advising the OP to think about if that is the way she wants to live her whole life.


Do you know what? If visiting my family was very important to me and I made the mistake of not asking my wife first and then I apologise a million times and my wife wants to divorce me over that, I would divorce her, for sure. It's a very childish and controlling behaviour. And it will only get worse.


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> My family would never put me in that position. They know he IS my family now


But what if they did... how would you like that?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> Because he didn't think you would be so hurt. And he made a mistake. And he has apologised. And he is still going because it's his family, he really wants to see them like the old times, without partners, and it's a one off. How would you like it if he made you choose between him and your family? Just let him go. He will enjoy himself and he will come back happy and full of love for you. Don't break your marriage over this...


I couldn't disagree more. A married man doesn't doesn't do this to his wife. They even offered to pay for her to go, but nope, no spouses allowed. That is utter nonsense. She had to give up her already planned Bday trip so her husband could go on a vacation without her. Does that really sound like a healthy marriage dynamic?


----------



## In Absentia

Anastasia6 said:


> These things are never a one off.


ok, I'm glad you can see in the future... I wish I had that gift too...


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> Do you know what? If visiting my family was very important to me and I made the mistake of not asking my wife first and then I apologise a million times and my wife wants to divorce me over that, I would divorce her, for sure. It's a very childish and controlling behaviour. And it will only get worse.


So we agree divorce is the best option if she doesn't want to live like this.


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> But what if they did... how would you like that?


If they did I would say no my husband is my family it’s pretty weird of you to ask me not to allow him to come. My husband wouldn’t have to ask me to choose, he’s my partner I’m not letting something come between us.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> Do you know what? If visiting my family was very important to me and I made the mistake of not asking my wife first and then I apologise a million times and my wife wants to divorce me over that, I would divorce her, for sure. It's a very childish and controlling behaviour. And it will only get worse.


Lol, you are defending a MIL that is very obviously a total a-hole. The whole family is from what I can tell. This guy sees his family pretty much every weekend. It isn't like this is a vacation to see relatives that you haven't been around in a decade or something. Furthermore she was invited, got uninvited then denied permission to buy her own ticket and hotel so she could be there. I see it as the MIL being a selfish ***** and the husband has no balls, or maybe his mom is holding on to them for him.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

spicynug said:


> If they did I would say no my husband is my family it’s pretty weird of you to ask me not to allow him to come. My husband wouldn’t have to ask me to choose, he’s my partner I’m not letting something come between us.


EXACTLY as it should be.


----------



## Laurentium

In Absentia said:


> Do you know what? If visiting my family was very important to me and I made the mistake of not asking my wife first and then I apologise a million times and my wife wants to divorce me over that, I would divorce her, for sure. *It's a very childish and controlling behaviour.* And it will only get worse.





In Absentia said:


> I have said what I had to say. They are both at fault IMO and they are going to divorce over such a trivial and petty argument. Stupid. I'm out.


You're out, fair enough. But I'll say this for the benefit of others. It's important for each of us to reflect, and get clear in our minds, what is the difference between "being controlling" and "setting boundaries".


----------



## ConanHub

@spicynug I'm too lazy to read the whole thread.
Do you have kids?

You're still pretty young yes?


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> Maybe, but at least I don't insult people with ah hominem attacks. I have lost all the respect for you.


So let's try it without an attack. Your marriage fell apart due to resentment on your wife's side if I understand your position correctly.

So you would have her stay and build much more resentment because he isn't changing and doing disrespectful things under the 'no clue' of I just want to spend time with my family in a vacation spot that my wife was uninvited to and can't even pay for her own way and join. She flat out isn't welcome to be with her husband.

I think it is much better to not stay and build resentment, have kids and spend so much of her life in an untenable situation.


----------



## Anastasia6

ConanHub said:


> @spicynug I'm too lazy to read the whole thread.
> Do you have kids?
> 
> You're still pretty young yes?


no


----------



## In Absentia

Anastasia6 said:


> So let's try it without an attack. Your marriage fell apart due to resentment on your wife's side if I understand your position correctly.
> 
> So you would have her stay and build much more resentment because he isn't changing and doing disrespectful things under the 'no clue' of I just want to spend time with my family in a vacation spot that my wife was uninvited to and can't even pay for her own way and join. She flat out isn't welcome to be with her husband.
> 
> I think it is much better to not stay and build resentment, have kids and spend so much of her life in an untenable situation.


This is not about my marriage.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> Maybe, but at least I don't insult people with ah hominem attacks. I have lost all the respect for you.


It wasn't an insult. You give terrible advice for a healthy marriage.

You have consistently given destructive advise for drawing healthy boundaries.

It's an observation. You also decided to refer to the OP as being equally responsible for a situation you described as "stupid" so don't get your feathers in a ruffle.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> It wasn't an insult. You give terrible advice for a healthy marriage.
> 
> You have consistently given destructive advise for drawing healthy boundaries.
> 
> It's an observation. You also decided to refer to the OP as being equally responsible for a situation you described as "stupid" so don't get your feathers in a ruffle.


It's not an observation, it is an insult and a personal attack. I couldn't care less about your opinion. Just don't insult people.


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> This is not about my marriage.


No it isn't about your marriage. I would hope you would use your experience to try and give OP advice. Your advice is just don't worry about him and his lack of concern for your feelings and don't establish appropriate boundaries.

So would you have rather had your marriage end long ago when your lives were less intertwined or now as you are stuck due to kids and length of marriage? 

She has already brought her concern to her husband and he's dismissed her feelings so she should just have different feelings?


----------



## ConanHub

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


Got over my laziness enough to know you should get out if he won't seriously commit to marriage counseling with the focus being on building healthy boundaries with his family and building stronger bonds and commitments with you.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> It's not an observation, it is an insult and a personal attack. I couldn't care less about your opinion. Just don't insult people.


It was no more insulting than referring to the op as being "stupid" for throwing away her marriage.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> It was no more insulting than referring to the op as being "stupid" for throwing away her marriage.


Please, read properly before making even more accusations: I didn't call the OP stupid, I called the argument stupid. I've had enough now.


----------



## spicynug

ConanHub said:


> @spicynug I'm too lazy to read the whole thread.
> Do you have kids?
> 
> You're still pretty young yes?


Yeah and no kids, we’ve been married a year.


----------



## Blondilocks

TXTrini said:


> And you're supposed to be ok in limbo for an indeterminate length of time?? I'd have a complete ****fit and throw his ass out.


^Times ten! Now, not only is mommy dictating their life his sis is getting in on the act.

This kinda doesn't make sense because the parents made it sound as though they had an extra bedroom available. It hasn't even been booked ffs. Someone is playing games.

Get a consult with a divorce attorney.


----------



## ConanHub

spicynug said:


> Yeah and no kids, we’ve been married a year.


Best to probably cut bait.

How complicated would it be to move on?

I know it's probably incredibly emotional but aside from the personal cost, it's good to consider what actions you should take and how they will play out.

I would bid him farewell as he left to be with his mommy and then use the opportunity to totally extract myself from his life.

All he would find on his return would be the paperwork of intent to dissolve the marriage.


----------



## Rus47

In Absentia said:


> I thought they were going together and then he changed his mind and was going on his own because the family wanted to be together. Just the family. Nothing wrong with that. His mistake was not asking his wife first. And she is asking him to choose between his family and his wife and that's not fair either. He's made a mistake, he has apologised ans she won't have it.


Sorry, but for me it is wife first. Full stop! Everyone else (including kids) second. Been in spot OPs husband put in by his mother, exceot I chose my wife and told my parents as much. He is just plain wrong. And unfortunately he has helped mom to destroy his marriage. It cant come back from this because he has proven he has no loyalty to his wife. “A MAN shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall become ONE flesh”

Only thing OP did wrong was to marry a mommy’s boy instead of a MAN.


----------



## Openminded

For decades I lived the life you’re about to live — my husband always put his family’s wishes first — and I don’t recommend it.


----------



## Anastasia6

Openminded said:


> For decades I lived the life you’re about to live — my husband always put his family’s wishes first — and I don’t recommend it.


If you could go back to year one what would you do?


----------



## ConanHub

Rus47 said:


> Sorry, but for me it is wife first. Full stop! Everyone else (including kids) second. Been in spot OPs husband put in by his mother, exceot I chose my wife and told my parents as much. He is just plain wrong. And unfortunately he has helped mom to destroy his marriage. It cant come back from this because he has proven he has no loyalty to his wife. “A MAN shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall become ONE flesh”
> 
> Only thing OP did wrong was to marry a mommy’s boy instead of a MAN.


Couldn't have said it better.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> I thought they were going together and then he changed his mind and was going on his own because the family wanted to be together. Just the family. Nothing wrong with that. His mistake was not asking his wife first. And she is asking him to choose between his family and his wife and that's not fair either. He's made a mistake, he has apologised ans she won't have it.


Put yourself in her shoes, assume you are in what you thought was a solid marriage and this plays out...

Your wife's mom and dad plan a 10 day vacation to Hawaii and invite you to come along with them, your wife and her two siblings. You cancel your already existing plans to go away for your birthday because you can only get so much time off from work. You figure no big deal, you're going to Hawaii! Then MIL decides she doesn't want you to come with, just your wife and her siblings. You and your wife think maybe it is the financial burden, so you offer to pay for your own ticket and hotel room. Your MIL says no, you aren't allowed to come, just doesn't want you there. That should be full stop for your wife right there, but instead she says sorry honey I'm going on the vacation with my mom and dad without you. You then tell your wife that is okay, you will just go on the original trip you planned for your birthday, even if she can't get time off. Your wife gets pissed off, "how could you go on a vacation without me?"

Do you really think that is acceptable and you should just suck it up?


----------



## lund

I've not read all the responses, but the situation is definitely not normal. By any reasonable definition, as his wife you're very much his family. Legally, you're his next of kin, not his parents or siblings. But even for people obsessed with "blood" the whole thing is bizarre, as the grandkids are also excluded. The only circumstances in which him going alone would be fine would be if it had been something you had decided on jointly from the start (say, you visiting your parents while he visits his) or if other circumstances (like work schedules) took vacationing together off the table. But even as a matter of common courtesy, your ILs should invite the two of you, esp. as you're able and willing to pay your own way, even if they expected you would not go. As a matter of loyalty, your husband shouldn't go if you wouldn't be welcome. 

That you seem to be the odd man out in being upset is neither here nor there - dysfunctional families generally involve multiple or even all members participating in a dysfunctional "dance" - thus your SILs enable this make-believe that they and your husband are children with no lives outside of their relationship with their parents. This doesn't mean it's healthy or normal, or that their spouses and kids shouldn't be upset about it. 

I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I really, really urge you to not have children with this man. If you do, you'll be stuck co-parenting with his parents (not just with him) for the next 18+ years, and even divorce won't change that.


----------



## spicynug

lund said:


> I've not read all the responses, but the situation is definitely not normal. By any reasonable definition, as his wife you're very much his family. Legally, you're his next of kin, not his parents or siblings. But even for people obsessed with "blood" the whole thing is bizarre, as the grandkids are also excluded. The only circumstances in which him going alone would be fine would be if it had been something you had decided on jointly from the start (say, you visiting your parents while he visits his) or if other circumstances (like work schedules) took vacationing together off the table. But even as a matter of common courtesy, your ILs should invite the two of you, esp. as you're able and willing to pay your own way, even if they expected you would not go. As a matter of loyalty, your husband shouldn't go if you wouldn't be welcome.
> 
> That you seem to be the odd man out in being upset is neither here nor there - dysfunctional families generally involve multiple or even all members participating in a dysfunctional "dance" - thus your SILs enable this make-believe that they and your husband are children with no lives outside of their relationship with their parents. This doesn't mean it's healthy or normal, or that their spouses and kids shouldn't be upset about it.
> 
> I don't know if anyone else has said this, but I really, really urge you to not have children with this man. If you do, you'll be stuck co-parenting with his parents (not just with him) for the next 18+ years, and even divorce won't change that.


Kids aren’t on the table neither of us even know if we want children so that’s not going to be an issue in the near future


----------



## TXTrini

spicynug said:


> Kids aren’t on the table neither of us even know if we want children so that’s not going to be an issue in the near future


Good. You already have one who's still swinging off his momma's tit. 

Any changes today? How are you feeling?


----------



## Openminded

Anastasia6 said:


> If you could go back to year one what would you do?


Get out — absolutely. 

I have very often wished I had. We didn’t have a child then and it never again would be as easy as it was then.


----------



## spicynug

TXTrini said:


> Good. You already have one who's still swinging off his momma's tit.
> 
> Any changes today? How are you feeling?


We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so. Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


You take all the time you need. You might need to stay in this marriage for another year or so. Or maybe he'll talk to his friends and realize going to Hawaii is a HUGE mistake. IDK. Take it one step at a time.


----------



## TXTrini

spicynug said:


> We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so. Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


It's good that you're talking, maybe he'll come to realize on his own what's at stake. It's not a waste of time if you're not even sure you ever want children, take as much time as you need. I think most people were concerned you're wasting your best fertile period on him.

There's no shame in loving him and trying to work things out, once you love yourself at least as much and fight for what you want for yourself. At least he won't be blindsided, you've clearly expressed yourself, the ball is firmly in his court.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so. Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


Look I don't think anyone expects you to be ready at least not now. But we all want you to figure out what you want out of life and be aware of your own boundaries. For many this kind of thing 'sneaks' up on them and then years later they are wondering how they are married to someone who values them so little, they see the red flags from the past.

BTW: He's tell you the truth he does see you as a priority. It's just that you are behind his family. I have no doubt that if he made a priority list you'd be on it. If it was an honest list you'd be behind his mom.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> Look I don't think anyone expects you to be ready at least not now. But we all want you to figure out what you want out of life and be aware of your own boundaries. For many this kind of thing 'sneaks' up on them and then years later they are wondering how they are married to someone who values them so little, they see the red flags from the past.
> 
> BTW: He's tell you the truth he does see you as a priority. It's just that you are behind his family. I have no doubt that if he made a priority list you'd be on it. If it was an honest list you'd be behind his mom.


You’re right I’m sure I’m on the list somewhere just not at the top. I guess I’ll see what he does with the information he has and see how I feel about him going forward from that. A huge thanks to everyone who took time to read all of this and respond


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but *no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so.* Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. *So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.*


So the ONE thing he could do to show you that you are number one on his list, he makes no mention of doing. Instead of doing that one thing he is trying to have his cake and eat it too by making empty promises. 

It is very easy for him to not go to Hawaii, and instead take you on the *promised* Bday trip. It takes but a phone call and some rather small cajones. His mommy must have his in her purse. How convenient.

Nothing wrong with waiting until you are ready. Mommy dearest will provide plenty of future opportunities for him to disrespect you, so you will no doubt soon relive how you are feeling now. Over and over again. When you get your fill, you will head for the exits. You still love him, but he obviously doesn't love you. Actions are louder than words. A MAN doesn't treat the woman he loves like you are being treated.

In the meantime, please be sure you do not have a child by this man child.


----------



## Galabar01

I think you should be very clear with your husband that he needs to choose you or his family, and going or not going on this trip is the choice.

I wouldn't passive-aggressively serve him divorce papers while he's on vacation. Instead, be direct and let him know that this choice will decide the marriage.

Tell your husband now, in no uncertain terms, that he needs to pick you or you will leave the marriage. He needs to choose you (now and in the future) and embrace the decision whole-heartedly, or you are done.

Do it now, before things go further.

p.s. A lot of people here are telling you to divorce, that he doesn't love you, etc.. I don't think that is true. Rather, your husband is a boy and this is his chance to grow up and become a man. Give him that chance. Tell him very directly what his options are and allow him to pick the grown-up choice.


----------



## Galabar01

Just to add, when I got married, my wife become my number one priority. There would never be a time when I would put someone outside the marriage ahead of her. I expected the same from her.


----------



## Andy1001

spicynug said:


> We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so. Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


He is paying lip service that’s all. He’s the type of asshole who is always prepared to discuss any subject matter, listen to all opinions and advice and will take onboard everyone’s input. But he’s still going to do as he wants to.
One thing I would be interested in knowing. Have you actually asked his mother WHY you are being deliberately excluded from vacationing with your husband. 
And if you haven’t why not? After all you only really have his word about her decision.


----------



## Anastasia6

Andy1001 said:


> He is paying lip service that’s all. He’s the type of asshole who is always prepared to discuss any subject matter, listen to all opinions and advice and will take onboard everyone’s input. But he’s still going to do as he wants to.
> One thing I would be interested in knowing. Have you actually asked his mother WHY you are being deliberately excluded from vacationing with your husband.
> And if you haven’t why not? After all you only really have his word about her decision.


My family dynamics have always been I deal with my family and he deals with his. This keeps the families and spouses from having hard feelings.

I feel like the ball is in the husbands court.


----------



## QuietGuy

By now he clearly knows how unhappy you are with this situation. I would not threaten divorce at this time because then even if he changes his mind, it doesn't give you anything to work with going forward. I don't think you even need to discuss it much more. Instead just wait and see what he decides on his own. That will speak volumes. Do you really want to get in an intimidation contest with his mother to see who can control him the most? Also, the fact he thinks he can disrespect you like this, and make up for it later, is just another indication of his lack of maturity. Wait, watch his action and plan your next action from there.


----------



## re16

Galabar01 said:


> Just to add, when I got married, my wife become my number one priority. There would never be a time when I would put someone outside the marriage ahead of her. I expected the same from her.


The weird part with this scenario, is that he can prioritize his wife and likely still be involved in his family if chose to.... it is him allowing others to exclude his wife that is the problem. Bizarre. Seems like a very easy situation to deal with and fix on his part.


----------



## Rus47

re16 said:


> The weird part with this scenario, is that he can prioritize his wife and likely still be involved in his family if chose to.... it is him allowing others to exclude his wife that is the problem. Bizarre. Seems like a very easy situation to deal with and fix on his part.


Well I cant imagine that OP will ever want to be in presence of the boy’s mommy. Mommy burned that bridge totally. And any future time he goes to mommy it will just be another reminder of the Hawaii incident.


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> He is paying lip service that’s all. He’s the type of asshole who is always prepared to discuss any subject matter, listen to all opinions and advice and will take onboard everyone’s input. But he’s still going to do as he wants to.
> One thing I would be interested in knowing. Have you actually asked his mother WHY you are being deliberately excluded from vacationing with your husband.
> And if you haven’t why not? After all you only really have his word about her decision.


Ooh. That's an interesting thought.


----------



## spicynug

Andy1001 said:


> He is paying lip service that’s all. He’s the type of asshole who is always prepared to discuss any subject matter, listen to all opinions and advice and will take onboard everyone’s input. But he’s still going to do as he wants to.
> One thing I would be interested in knowing. Have you actually asked his mother WHY you are being deliberately excluded from vacationing with your husband.
> And if you haven’t why not? After all you only really have his word about her decision.


She’s said (with me around) that she’s excited for a trip where she can spend time with just them like the good old days


----------



## Harold Demure

Well if she carries on like this she is going to have lots more days with him, just like the good old days.

Personally, I think you should be getting ready to walk away from this p*ssy.

What is it going to take before you finally blow and download on both him and his precious mummy.

I would seriously be doing the 180 with him now. There are people on here who can give you details of this in a much better way than I can.


----------



## QuietGuy

No need to answer this here, but for yourself when you think about your relationship is he a partner? Does he love you or does he love things you provide that benefit him (companionship, sex, great vacations)? Who cooks, cleans, does laundry Etc? does he have a Mom senior and a Mom junior?


----------



## Quad73

spicynug said:


> He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so.


@spicynug did he actually use the word 'try' or are you paraphrasing due to the resentment?

If he literally said 'try', I dunno. It's strange that one word would tip the scales for me, but it gets me right -there-. Maybe I'm just tired of lame, meaningless commitments from my male friends. It's a trend I'm seeing more and more; men abdicating basic responsibility and not even putting up a front to get sht done. At this point, I'd need him to get sht done. A list, a reevaluation, immediate action. I'd demand it.


----------



## spicynug

Quad73 said:


> @spicynug did he actually use the word 'try' or are you paraphrasing due to the resentment?
> 
> If he literally said 'try', I dunno. It's strange that one word would tip the scales for me, but it gets me right -there-. Maybe I'm just tired of lame, meaningless commitments from my male friends. It's a trend I'm seeing more and more; men abdicating basic responsibility and not even putting up a front to get sht done. At this point, I'd need him to get sht done. A list, a reevaluation, immediate action. I'd demand it.


He said “do everything I can” but it’s basically the same as try because he’s not decided to do the one thing that might help, not fix, but help.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> He said “do everything I can” but it’s basically the same as try because he’s not decided to do the one thing that might help, not fix, but help.


Did you tell your mom or your friends from home about this Hawaii trip?

If so what did they say about it?


----------



## spicynug

Cindywife said:


> Did you tell your mom or your friends from home about this Hawaii trip?
> 
> If so what did they say about it?


My friends took my side but they would either way. My mom is weird she said the whole “I’m not in a place to judge others blah blah blah” she’s newly super religious


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> My friends took my side but they would either way. My mom is weird she said the whole “I’m not in a place to judge others blah blah blah” she’s newly super religious


OK. Now I understand why you're sort of unsure of how to act in this situation. 

Pretend I'm your mom: *GET OUT!

😇*


----------



## ConanHub

spicynug said:


> My friends took my side but they would either way. My mom is weird she said the whole “I’m not in a place to judge others blah blah blah” she’s newly super religious


Ugh!!! I hate the religious response and I'm a Christian!😵‍💫


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> She’s said (with me around) that she’s excited for a trip where she can spend time with just them like the good old days


Let me be sure I understand. Are ALL of the wives n kids of mommy's boys being excluded from the trip?!? So mommy "raised" a bunch (3?) boys who are all at her beck and call to the detriment of their wives? Tied to her apron strings? And your husbands father tolerated that? He must be a real wimp himself! Otherwise he would have checked her long ago. Mommy rules the roost and runs the show. She says jump and all of the males just ask how high?

Be thankful you avoided a trip anywhere with that clown show!


----------



## Rus47

ConanHub said:


> Ugh!!! I hate the religious response and I'm a Christian!😵‍💫


The Pharisees were the most religious of their day.


----------



## Cynthia

According to the Bible, it's not our job to judge the hearts of others or mind read. It is our job to judge between right and wrong actions and situations. It's also about not being a hypocrite. Hopefully your mother will grow and gain wisdom. She sounds like she's trying to do the right thing, but doesn't really understand what the right thing is.

I'm not going to jump on the divorce bandwagon here, however, I would not let an unresolved problem continue without addressing it until it is actually resolved. In this case, I'd sure go away on vacation without him though. If you don't set some extremely clear boundaries, he will continue with this ridiculous behavior.

This is an article I wrote on the subject: https://thefemininereview.com/marriage/how-to-get-your-husband-to-treat-you-better


----------



## ConanHub

Cynthia said:


> According to the Bible, it's not our job to judge the hearts of others or mind read. It is our job to judge between right and wrong actions and situations. It's also about not being a hypocrite. Hopefully your mother will grow and gain wisdom. She sounds like she's trying to do the right thing, but doesn't really understand what the right thing is.
> 
> I'm not going to jump on the divorce bandwagon here, however, I would not let an unresolved problem continue without addressing it until it is actually resolved. In this case, I'd sure go away on vacation without him though. If you don't set some extremely clear boundaries, he will continue with this ridiculous behavior.
> 
> This is an article I wrote on the subject: https://thefemininereview.com/marriage/how-to-get-your-husband-to-treat-you-better


I have less patience with ridiculous people but since OP isn't ready to call it quits, I believe she should show him exactly what he is showing her.

I might suggest her taking a vacation that puts her husband in exactly the same position as he is placing her but he needs to feel precisely the same level of disrespect and being a secondary priority.

Since he obviously believes his mommy ranks higher than his wife, he might not be overly disturbed if she does to him as he has done to her. He could also be an incredible hypocrite as well as a mommy's boy as well however.

I can't get past the hard line of leaving your father and mother and cleaving to your wife and forsaking all others.

To me, he is a boy, unfit for a woman until he can at least fulfill the basics.


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> Let me be sure I understand. Are ALL of the wives n kids of mommy's boys being excluded from the trip?!? So mommy "raised" a bunch (3?) boys who are all at her beck and call to the detriment of their wives? Tied to her apron strings? And your husbands father tolerated that? He must be a real wimp himself! Otherwise he would have checked her long ago. Mommy rules the roost and runs the show. She says jump and all of the males just ask how high?
> 
> Be thankful you avoided a trip anywhere with that clown show!


There are 3 children, my husband (27) and two older sisters in their 40s


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> There are 3 children, my husband (27) and two older sisters in their 40s


So he is the baby boy. Therein lies the root of the problem. The child of her old age.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

spicynug said:


> She’s said (with me around) that she’s excited for a trip where she can spend time with just them like the good old days


Which, of course, implies that these are the bad old days because you're in the family now. Nice.


----------



## Robert22205

I predict that within 6 months of their trip, the parents will probably invite everyone (including spouses & kids) to a big family gathering. If you don't attend then you'll be labeled the bad guy and a destroyer of family harmony.

That's why IMO you should make your stand now. Anything you do later in retaliation will be too late and make you the bad guy.

His promise to 'try' to make it up to you has no substance and therefore has no value. Again, he shows no empathy for his new bride - and his strategy seems to be that you will eventually get over this.

Take whatever time you need to make a decision. In the interim decide what you need to see from him (action not promises/words) and focus on yourself (instead of him). And put some money aside. Talk to an attorney (the first hour is often free).

Be more independent and do things to improve yourself and your life (e.g., take a course, a new hobby, new clothes ... ). 

And find yourself a therapist that is experienced with bullying and abuse. 

BTW: it doesn't matter what his sisters' husbands think. They've got kids so they're stuck. In addition, the sisters may have more vacation time so their husbands are not abandoned like you are (or maybe the grandchildren don't want to go).And last (but not least) they are not newly weds like you.


----------



## ConanHub

Robert22205 said:


> I predict that within 6 months of their trip, the parents will probably invite everyone (including spouses & kids) to a big family gathering. If you don't attend then you'll be labeled the bad guy and a destroyer of family harmony.
> 
> That's why IMO you should make your stand now. Anything you do later in retaliation will be too late and make you the bad guy.
> 
> His promise to 'try' to make it up to you has no substance and therefore has no value. Again, he shows no empathy for his new bride - and his strategy seems to be that you will eventually get over this.
> 
> Take whatever time you need to make a decision. In the interim decide what you need to see from him (action not promises/words) and focus on yourself (instead of him). And put some money aside. Talk to an attorney (the first hour is often free).
> 
> Be more independent and do things to improve yourself and your life (e.g., take a course, a new hobby, new clothes ... ).
> 
> And find yourself a therapist that is experienced with bullying and abuse.
> 
> BTW: it doesn't matter what his sisters' husbands think. They've got kids so they're stuck. In addition, the sisters may have more vacation time so their husbands are not abandoned like you are (or maybe the grandchildren don't want to go).And last (but not least) they are not newly weds like you.


I'm for taking an immediate hard line stance as well.

I've seen too many situations where parents were in their children's marital bed so to speak.

It's no damn good and just needs stood up to.


----------



## TXTrini

ConanHub said:


> I have less patience with ridiculous people but since OP isn't ready to call it quits, I believe she should show him exactly what he is showing her.
> 
> I might suggest her taking a vacation that puts her husband in exactly the same position as he is placing her but he needs to feel precisely the same level of disrespect and being a secondary priority.
> 
> Since he obviously believes his mommy ranks higher than his wife, he might not be overly disturbed if she does to him as he has done to her. He could also be an incredible hypocrite as well as a mommy's boy as well however.
> 
> I can't get past the hard line of leaving your father and mother and cleaving to your wife and forsaking all others.
> 
> To me, he is a boy, unfit for a woman until he can at least fulfill the basics.


It would be funny if spicynug invites her in-laws to go along, and then change her mind and uninvites them. I betcha "do so won't like so"


----------



## Blondilocks

spicynug said:


> We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. *He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority* but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so. Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


He has already shown you that he doesn't. Will he in the future? Only time will tell. In the meantime afford him the same level of discourtesy that he has afforded you. Look up the 180 and start implementing it so that you can emotionally detach when his efforts fail to materialize. He is counting on you sweeping this under the rug and you are well on the way to doing just that with the 'wait and see' approach. 

Really consider not spending any time with the in-laws. They have to learn how to be proper in-laws. Your husband is not entitled to the pleasure of your company when he visits them for the holidays which will probably suit them just fine, anyway. Let him take responsibility for all of the social obligations for his family - greeting cards & gifts etc.


----------



## MattMatt

MODERATOR NOTICE Please quit the threadjacks.


----------



## Quad73

spicynug said:


> He said “do everything I can” but it’s basically the same as try because he’s not decided to do the one thing that might help, not fix, but help.


He's not seeing the light.

He should be saying "I'll do everything you need to make this right and prove to you you're my number one priority from this moment onwards". Or something to that effect. 

It's still about him and not about you.


----------



## Jane63

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


No you are not overreacting .its a bad act .no two ways about it


----------



## MattMatt




----------



## BigDaddyNY

This all


spicynug said:


> She’s said (with me around) that she’s excited for a trip where she can spend time with just them like the good old days


That is just so sad. She is saying today is not as good as days past because you and the other spouses reduced the family value. You are all a drag on the family as far as she is concerned. What a great mom and grandma, lol. I've seen my wife long for when she had our kids all to herself, but she is also so thrilled to see them in healthy relationships that make them happy. She would never try to get between her kids and their SOs. For one thing she sees it as an opportunity to expand the family and the circle of people she loves. She also knows she would just alienate the kids if she tried to assert her importance over the SOs.


Sadly I've seen something very similar to this with friends of ours. Some friends have a daughter that is a senior in HS with a boyfriend that is a freshman away at college. The daughter and the BF are heartbroken due to being apart and trying to maintain a long distance relationship. The BF in particular was really down over it. His parents actually thought it was appropriate to ask him who he missed more, mom or his GF. WTF? I don't get how a parent can do that to their kid. Now here is the part that makes @spicynug husband look weak and immature. That 18 year old boy told his mom she shouldn't make him chose between her and his GF because she might not like his choice! Sad that an 18 YO boy has more maturity and a better grasp on relationships than a 27 YO man. Hopefully @spicynug husband pulls his head out of his ass before he blows up his marriage.


----------



## Cindywife

Quad73 said:


> He's not seeing the light.
> 
> He should be saying "I'll do everything you need to make this right and prove to you you're my number one priority from this moment onwards". Or something to that effect.
> 
> It's still about him and not about you.


Yep. A good husband would have said to him mom "What are you crazy? You want me to tell my wife she CAN'T go? If you don't want her to go then I don't want to go. I'll take my wife on vacation somewhere else. Have fun mom."


----------



## Blondilocks

What I find strange is that MIL is so nostalgic for a very few short years when she actually had 3 kids at home. I wonder how nostalgic the sisters are of their teen years being hijacked by a kid so young. I think we've all seen how the majority of care for an 'oops' baby gets turned over to the older siblings because an older mom just doesn't have the energy to chase after a toddler. It might be that MIL is rewriting history and nostalgic for a time that never was.


----------



## ccpowerslave

In Absentia said:


> And he is still going because it's his family, he really wants to see them like the old times, without partners, and it's a one off.


Well it doesn’t have to be a one off! She can kick him to the curb then he can move back in with mummy full time. She can probably make him sack lunches and then send him off to work!


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> What I find strange is that MIL is so nostalgic for a very few short years when she actually had 3 kids at home. I wonder how nostalgic the sisters are of their teen years being hijacked by a kid so young. I think we've all seen how the majority of care for an 'oops' baby gets turned over to the older siblings because an older mom just doesn't have the energy to chase after a toddler. It might be that MIL is rewriting history and nostalgic for a time that never was.


No they all sound like they loved the good old days when mommy and daddy bears was home with all the baby bears


----------



## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> This all
> 
> That is just so sad. She is saying today is not as good as days past because you and the other spouses reduced the family value. You are all a drag on the family as far as she is concerned. What a great mom and grandma, lol. I've seen my wife long for when she had our kids all to herself, but she is also so thrilled to see them in healthy relationships that make them happy. She would never try to get between her kids and their SOs. For one thing she sees it as an opportunity to expand the family and the circle of people she loves. She also knows she would just alienate the kids if she tried to assert her importance over the SOs.
> 
> 
> Sadly I've seen something very similar to this with friends of ours. Some friends have a daughter that is a senior in HS with a boyfriend that is a freshman away at college. The daughter and the BF are heartbroken due to being apart and trying to maintain a long distance relationship. The BF in particular was really down over it. His parents actually thought it was appropriate to ask him who he missed more, mom or his GF. WTF? I don't get how a parent can do that to their kid. Now here is the part that makes @spicynug husband look weak and immature. T*hat 18 year old boy told his mom she shouldn't make him chose between her and his GF because she might not like his choice! Sad that an 18 YO boy has more maturity and a better grasp on relationships than a 27 YO man*. Hopefully @spicynug husband pulls his head out of his ass before he blows up his marriage.


That 18 yo MAN is ready to live his own life. A parent's goal in life is to work themselves out of that job, and see their offspring being well adjusted adults making their own way in the world. The husband's mother is doing him a major disservice. She will not always be around to baby him. 

I think spicymug's husband has already blown up his marriage. Nothing he does going forward can make up for the hurt he has already caused


----------



## Blondilocks

spicynug said:


> No they all sound like they loved the good old days when mommy and daddy bears was home with all the baby bears


Good for them. But, what do they say when family isn't within earshot. Is your husband particularly close to his sisters who are almost a generation older?


----------



## Rus47

Cindywife said:


> Yep. *A good husband would have said to him mom "What are you crazy?* You want me to tell my wife she CAN'T go? If you don't want her to go then I don't want to go. I'll take my wife on vacation somewhere else. Have fun mom."


To be perfectly honest, I would have never cared to go on vacation with ANYONE except the wife and (later) kids from day one.


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> Good for them. But, what do they say when family isn't within earshot. Is your husband particularly close to his sisters who are almost a generation older?


Yeah they act like 2 more mothers toward him


----------



## Rus47

The husband is going to be without any loving for a long time. Before, during, and after the trip with mommy, daddy, and sisters. Celibate for at least a month? And maybe for months to come. It's like he put himself into a prison cell.


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> The husband is going to be without any loving for a long time. Before, during, and after the trip with mommy, daddy, and sisters. Celibate for at least a month? And maybe for months to come. It's like he put himself into a prison cell.


It’s pretty impossible to be attracted to him right now yeah


----------



## SunCMars

MattMatt said:


> MODERATOR NOTICE Please quit the threadjacks.


Right-oh!

Thread jacks are only appropriate (needed) when the thread goes flat, the words taper, smartly off.
The thread then needs a change-out with the _temporary_ worded spare tyre.

Not the case, here!


----------



## SunCMars

spicynug said:


> It’s _pretty_ impossible to be attracted to him right now yeah


He ain't _pretty_, this one.

Maybe it's time to reassess your choice in a husband.
Better earlier than later, when even more circumstances bind you to him.

He is NOT horrible, but you can do better.
His mother is horrible.

Live and....learn, unlearn pre-conceptions.


----------



## SunCMars

notmyjamie said:


> This is a tough one. I see a newly married guy feeling torn, I really do. But what a slap in the face to his wife. Idiot.
> 
> I wish you good luck on this OP.


Yes, he is immature. 
This is not at all, uncommon, with young-marrieds.

He is still little, under his mothers umbrella, he, hugging tight her legs.
He is going to learn the hard way with this action of his.


----------



## Andy1001

spicynug said:


> Yeah they act like 2 more mothers toward him


This explains a lot.


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> It’s pretty impossible to be attracted to him right now yeah


I said I was out but ... I would like to ask you: what about his sisters' husbands? Are they upset too or they are happy/indifferent that their wives are going - they have kids too? Do you know this? Because to me it seems that they are all going and happy to go. I'm just curious.


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> I said I was out but ... I would like to ask you: what about his sisters' husbands? Are they upset too or they are happy/indifferent that their wives are going - they have kids too? Do you know this? Because to me it seems that they are all going and happy to go. I'm just curious.


You'd have to ask did they offer to pay for their spouses? did they cancel a birthday trip?


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> I said I was out but ... I would like to ask you: what about his sisters' husbands? Are they upset too or they are happy/indifferent that their wives are going - they have kids too? Do you know this? Because to me it seems that they are all going and happy to go. I'm just curious.


The sisters are happy to go idk how the husbands feel one way or the other. One couple went to Hawaii for their honeymoon so he’s already been. The other husband is pretty subservient to the wife it’s like a running joke that’s not very funny to anyone but them. They each have 2 kids under 8


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> The sisters are happy to go idk how the husbands feel one way or the other. One couple went to Hawaii for their honeymoon so he’s already been. The *other husband is pretty subservient to the wife it’s like a running jo*ke that’s not very funny to anyone but them. They each have 2 kids under 8


My dear old Dad always told me if wanted to see what girl wud be like, just consider her mom. I can confirm that was true in my case. Wife just as kind and considerate as her mother.


----------



## Livvie

spicynug said:


> The sisters are happy to go idk how the husbands feel one way or the other. One couple went to Hawaii for their honeymoon so he’s already been. The other husband is pretty subservient to the wife it’s like a running joke that’s not very funny to anyone but them. They each have 2 kids under 8


The sisters marriages and your marriage are at different stages.

In your 40s with multiple kids is waaaaaay different from being a newlywed who canceled a planned trip on a spouse and now doesn't have any more vacation time left the whole year to travel anywhere with said newlywed spouse.


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> The sisters are happy to go idk how the husbands feel one way or the other. One couple went to Hawaii for their honeymoon so he’s already been. The other husband is pretty subservient to the wife it’s like a running joke that’s not very funny to anyone but them. They each have 2 kids under 8


Thank you.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> different from being a newlywed


They have been together 5 years.


----------



## Marc878

spicynug said:


> He didn’t even consider that being uninvited and cancelling our already planned vacation would hurt my feelings. His mom asked him to choose and he did.


That’s because he’s a moron. You should not have married him in the first place. Fix that.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> They have been together 5 years.


They've been married for 1 year.


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> They have been together 5 years.


They have been married a year.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> They have been married a year.


Yes, married 1 year, 4 years together pre-marriage. 5 in years in total. It's surprising these issues are coming to light now.


----------



## Nailhead

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


Your husband and family are insensitive and rude. Your husband is unsupportive of your marriage as well as his family. You are family. Arrange a family party and exclude your husband and family(after you invite). Screw all nonsense his family is.


----------



## Nailhead

spicynug said:


> They are going for 10 nights. I'm not sure how the husbands feel as they haven't spoken up around me. I have only discussed my feelings with my husband not his family. I think I'm the odd man out on how I feel left out. And I'm the newest addition so I would feel too awkward saying this to his parents.


You can say anything you like to his parents. At the end of the day you don't need them in your life.


----------



## Nailhead

spicynug said:


> No, they would probably hold it against me though. Since I seem to be the only one that feels it is a weird situation. But that doesn't matter because my husband has no intention of not going, he thinks it's a normal thing to do.


This is not normal.


----------



## Nailhead

spicynug said:


> This is really the first time it has been obvious. But he does pretty much do anything they ask. He doesn't see any issue with the trip. For him there is no need for any compromise.


He is a momma boy. He needs to cut the apron strings and be his own man. He never should have excluded you.


----------



## Beach123

He didn’t consider how hurt this would make you feel = he isn’t a guy to have as a husband! Proceed accordingly!


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> Yes, married 1 year, 4 years together pre-marriage. 5 in years in total. It's surprising these issues are coming to light now.


OPs husband is only 27. So they got married when he was 26. They are really young. These issues may not have come up before because they are so young.


----------



## TXTrini

Livvie said:


> OPs husband is only 27. So they got married when he was 26. They are really young. These issues may not have come up before because they are so young.


Not to mention, some people are really good at keeping questionable behavior under wraps until they seal the deal, ye Olde bait and switch. I don't understand the surprise there.


----------



## Openminded

TXTrini said:


> Not to mention, some people are really good at keeping questionable behavior under wraps until they seal the deal, ye Olde bait and switch. I don't understand the surprise there.


Yes, indeed. The hidden stuff usually starts creeping out after marriage when they figure you’re locked down. BTDT.


----------



## notmyjamie

I would invite my 20yo daughter’s boyfriend on our vacations and to our holidays. He was a part of our family. I can’t imagine doing what this MIL has done.

I would not spend the holidays with them. And honestly…my ex had these same issues…difficulty separating from his family, mostly a holiday issue for us. But he soon realized that Mommy doesn’t sleep with him and even though he was gay, he still wanted it from me. If he asks what he’s supposed to say to his parents when you don’t show up, tell him to tell the truth. “I no longer feel welcome in their family.”


----------



## Beach123

It doesn’t matter the age. His alliance is to his family - not his wife. He never should have married if he expected to mistreat his wife without thinking twice!


----------



## frusdil

In Absentia said:


> I thought they were going together and then he changed his mind and was going on his own because the family wanted to be together. Just the family. Nothing wrong with that. His mistake was not asking his wife first. And she is asking him to choose between his family and his wife and that's not fair either. He's made a mistake, he has apologised ans she won't have it.


His wife IS his family.



spicynug said:


> If they did I would say no my husband is my family it’s pretty weird of you to ask me not to allow him to come. My husband wouldn’t have to ask me to choose, he’s my partner I’m not letting something come between us.


Exactly as you should. I would do the same.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

He would rather hurt his wife's feelings than disappoint his mother. He can't recognize it distilled down into that one fact?


----------



## spicynug

Hopeful Cynic said:


> He would rather hurt his wife's feelings than disappoint his mother. He can't recognize it distilled down into that one fact?


He is pretending he doesn’t understand how simple it is


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> He is pretending he doesn’t understand how simple it is


No love life for a few days or if necessary weeks ought to educate him 😐

For most men, about 72 hours the longing gets strong enough to override all other considerations . You might have him begging for mercy by then.


----------



## Prodigal

spicynug said:


> He is pretending he doesn’t understand how simple it is.


Of course he is. Playing dumb is his way of expunging himself from taking responsibility for the choice he has made. Honestly, he simply isn't THIS clueless. But it serves his purpose to behave like he is clueless.

You have invested five years in this relationship. You love this man. But he's kicking you in the teeth. Please don't have anymore discussions with him. It's simply an exercise in futility. 

Just keep this in mind: He WILL do this again. So stay if you wish. Just watch your back, because when it comes to his family versus you, you'll lose every single time.


----------



## Openminded

If he doesn’t understand, it’s because he doesn’t want to since that would require action. As long as he plays dumb, he thinks it’s under control. All he has to do is promise you he’ll make you a priority in the future (as long as mommy doesn’t want something) and as far as he’s concerned he’s golden. Not everyone grows up and even if they do it can take decades longer than it should.


----------



## Anastasia6

Yep just wants to punt. He thinks he can avoid it. Then he gets everything he wants his wife doting at home and his vacation with mom. 

Then next time he’ll act like you are being outrageous.


----------



## lifeistooshort

That's called taking the path of least resistance. He plays dumb with you, throws you a couple of bones, placates mommy, then when he comes back he'll apologize more and try to do some nice stuff. Bit your place behind mommy will be even further entrenched.

That's what happens when there are no real consequences. This is why you should let him know that you may be looking for other living arrangements while he's gone and may not be here when he gets back. Then take none of his calls.

If there aren't going to be consequences for him you might as well make peace with this.


----------



## Cynthia

@spicynug, Have his parents put out any money for this trip yet? Could your husband cancel without financial implications?


----------



## spicynug

Cynthia said:


> @spicynug, Have his parents put out any money for this trip yet? Could your husband cancel without financial implications?


I know they had paid for flights but then rescheduled so idk if they got that money back or how that works


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> I know they had paid for flights but then rescheduled so idk if they got that money back or how that works


Covid put a real crimp in travel to HI. For a long time, arrival required a 14 day quarantine inside your hotel room with failure to comply resulting in arrest. The hotels were tasked with monitoring compliance and contacting police for enforcement as needed. Every island visited required a 14 day quarantine on that island. The policies weren't necessarily known by those on arriving flights. A 10 day trip to paradise could end up being surprise h3ll spent inside hotel room, room service being the source for food. 

Poetic justice if another spike prompted lock down just as hubby's family landed in the islands.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I know they had paid for flights but then rescheduled so idk if they got that money back or how that works


TBH pressing him not to go isn't a good idea. His family sounds like a nightmare. At this point, if he decides not to go his family will act really cold towards you and give you all kinds of verbal digs when your around. 

You need to be around ppl who love you and want the best for you. This family doesn't.


----------



## spicynug

I just informed him I wouldn’t be going for thanksgiving and he’s upset, like he really can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to be around them all. And I’m acting ridiculous. I told him I didn’t feel welcome and he said, without a hint of irony, that that’s the opposite of what they want. That they want me around more not less


----------



## Livvie

spicynug said:


> I just informed him I wouldn’t be going for thanksgiving and he’s upset, like he really can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to be around them all. And I’m acting ridiculous. I told him I didn’t feel welcome and he said, without a hint of irony, that that’s the opposite of what they want. That they want me around more not less


I think he's so far down on the "able to provide a happy healthy mutual relationship" scale that he's never going to get it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

More bullshitting.

Dude canceled your bday trip to placate mommy...that should've been plenty for a family that actually cares about you to tell him to go with his wife.

We're not talking about a Saturday night dinner with just her kids.

Good for you for taking a hard line. That's how you deal with this.

Many of us that have decades on you think you should reconsider the marriage because we see where this is going. But we also get that it's easy for us to do that.....we're not living your life and you aren't ready for it.

The hard line you're taking right now is your best chance at changing this dynamic.

Question, and forgive me if you've already. addressed this: has he actually told his parents that this trip will mean he can't take one with you and that it's your birthday? I want to be clear that they know that.


----------



## spicynug

lifeistooshort said:


> More bullshitting.
> 
> Dude canceled your bday trip to placate mommy...that should've been plenty for a family that actually cares about you to tell him to go with his wife.
> 
> We're not talking about a Saturday night dinner with just her kids.
> 
> Good for you for taking a hard line. That's how you deal with this.
> 
> Many of us that have decades on you think you should reconsider the marriage because we see where this is going. But we also get that it's easy for us to do that.....we're not living your life and you aren't ready for it.
> 
> The hard line you're taking right now is your best chance at changing this dynamic.
> 
> Question, and forgive me if you've already. addressed this: has he actually told his parents that this trip will mean he can't take one with you and that it's your birthday? I want to be clear that they know that.


They know about the cancelled trip I think, I’m not 100% sure on what they know


----------



## BigDaddyNY

spicynug said:


> They know about the cancelled trip I think, I’m not 100% sure on what they know


I know you want your husband to do the right thing and take care of this, but have you considered talking to his mom? What kind of relationship do you have with her?


----------



## suburbanmom

BigDaddyNY said:


> I know you want your husband to do the right thing and take care of this, but have you considered talking to his mom? What kind of relationship do you have with her?


Not a totally crazy idea, but geez. If MIL doesn't even know it's your b-day, that makes me think the dude just wants a free trip to Hawaii more than he wants your marriage. Not sure if that's better or worse than being a momma's boy, but neither are good.


----------



## jonty30

suburbanmom said:


> Not a totally crazy idea, but geez. If MIL doesn't even know it's your b-day, that makes me think the dude just wants a free trip to Hawaii more than he wants your marriage. Not sure if that's better or worse than being a momma's boy, but neither are good.


Although, if it's important to the wife, it should be automatically be important to the husband, birthdays are not always considered important within families. 
I've never celebrated my birthday all my life. My whole family is the same way. 

It's possible the MIL was raised to not consider birthdays to be important occasions.


----------



## Blondilocks

spicynug said:


> I just informed him I wouldn’t be going for thanksgiving and he’s upset, like he really can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to be around them all. And I’m acting ridiculous. I told him I didn’t feel welcome and he said, without a hint of irony, that that’s the opposite of what they want. That they want me around more not less


Is your husband on the spectrum (autism)?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blondilocks said:


> Is your husband on the spectrum (autism)?


Possible, but some people are just really good at playing dumb. 

You know all about my ex.....


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> Is your husband on the spectrum (autism)?


He has ADD but that doesn’t make you just forget you have a wife to consider


----------



## pastasauce79

spicynug said:


> I just informed him I wouldn’t be going for thanksgiving and he’s upset, like he really can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to be around them all. And I’m acting ridiculous. I told him I didn’t feel welcome and he said, without a hint of irony, that that’s the opposite of what they want. That they want me around more not less


They want you around on their terms, whenever and wherever THEY want. And if you refuse their terms, you are the bad guy. 

I really don't understand the idea of vacationing like "like the good old days." What are they going to do? Build sand castles and eat animal crackers and drink apple juice? What are they planning on doing that can't be shared with their sons and daughter in law? 

My kids barely want to go on vacation with us! And they are 10 and 13! I can't imagine asking them as adults to go with us without their significant others. 

I have a great relationship with my mil. She and I travel together a lot. She treats me like a daughter. I can't imagine having a mil like your. I'm sorry you are going through this.


----------



## Anastasia6

No this is standard stonewalling. I don't like that you are mad at me so I'll pretend not to understand, promise to do better anyway and hope the issue goes away without me having to take action, receive consequences or change my plans.

He'd prefer no conflict between you and him or him and mom. Of course no one wants conflict but it is because he made such a stupid decision. Now he just wants it to disappear.

I can understand not going to Thanksgiving. I know I wouldn't want to go. I notice it's at his Mom's house? So how would he or her feel about him cancelling his appearance there and going to see your family instead?

ETA: I bet if you suggested it your husband would reject it because he's already told mom he would be there and to cancel would be rude. (you know like they did to you).


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> No this is standard stonewalling. I don't like that you are mad at me so I'll pretend not to understand, promise to do better anyway and hope the issue goes away without me having to take action, receive consequences or change my plans.
> 
> He'd prefer no conflict between you and him or him and mom. Of course no one wants conflict but it is because he made such a stupid decision. Now he just wants it to disappear.
> 
> I can understand not going to Thanksgiving. I know I wouldn't want to go. I notice it's at his Mom's house? So how would he or her feel about him cancelling his appearance there and going to see your family instead?
> 
> ETA: I bet if you suggested it your husband would reject it because he's already told mom he would be there and to cancel would be rude. (you know like they did to you).


He would never consider it


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> He has ADD but that doesn’t make you just forget you have a wife to consider


Ah, that explains a lot of things.


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> Ah, that explains a lot of things.


Does it? Because he doesn’t treat anyone else this way


----------



## Rus47

pastasauce79 said:


> They want you around on their terms, whenever and wherever THEY want. And if you refuse their terms, you are the bad guy.
> 
> I really don't understand the idea of vacationing like "like the good old days." What are they going to do? Build sand castles and eat animal crackers and drink apple juice? What are they planning on doing that can't be shared with their sons and daughter in law?
> 
> My kids barely want to go on vacation with us! And they are 10 and 13! I can't imagine asking them as adults to go with us without their significant others.
> 
> I have a great relationship with my mil. She and I travel together a lot. She treats me like a daughter. I can't imagine having a mil like your. I'm sorry you are going through this.


I keep thinking of the goodwill the parents could have fostered for a lifetime by gifting a trip for two alone to the islands to OP as a belated wedding present. Instead they may have destroyed a marriage and forever lost the grandchildren that might have been.

The net cost in $ would have very small.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I just informed him I wouldn’t be going for thanksgiving and he’s upset, like he really can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to be around them all. And I’m acting ridiculous. I told him I didn’t feel welcome and he said, without a hint of irony, that that’s the opposite of what they want. That they want me around more not less


Gaslighting 101.


----------



## Blondilocks

lifeistooshort said:


> Possible, but some people are just really good at playing dumb.
> 
> You know all about my ex.....


I'm trying to suss out if he is even capable of understanding her position. Otherwise, his dismissive attitude toward her and subsequent bleatings is beyond the pale. Who wants to be married to someone that stupid? Or, someone who wants to pretend to be that stupid.

I think OP should recommend her husband see a doctor to determine if he his neural pathways are good because his brain does not seem to be firing on all cylinders. Put the shoe on the other foot with him.


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> Does it? Because he doesn’t treat anyone else this way


How do you know? Who is "anyone else"?


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> *I'm trying to suss out if he is even capable of understanding her position*. Otherwise, his dismissive attitude toward her and subsequent bleatings is beyond the pale. Who wants to be married to someone that stupid? Or, someone who wants to pretend to be that stupid.
> 
> I think OP should recommend her husband see a doctor to determine if he his neural pathways are good because his brain does not seem to be firing on all cylinders. Put the shoe on the other foot with him.


Yep... his behaviour is rather strange.


----------



## jonty30

spicynug said:


> He has ADD but that doesn’t make you just forget you have a wife to consider


I have ADHD and Aspergers. 
I also have a very high IQ, which has allowed me to bridge the gaps of my deficiencies with a lot of faking empathy, just to get along with people. 
If your husband also has some Aspergers, he doesn't have the emotional capacity to understand why your birthday is important to you and why leaving you behind if MIL in-law thinks only family members should be going. He is basically a walking data base, without the capacity in understanding the emotional spectrum. I've had to spend many years learning how to compensate for my inability to understand emotions, so I can seem like I have a lot of empathy, when I don't necessarily do. 

What I suggest is telling him directly that birthdays are important to you and tell him that if it is important to you, it should be considered important to him. Tell him that is normal for a wife and husband. He doesn't have to understand why it's important to you, as long as he understands that he needs to respond as if it is important to him as well.


----------



## jonty30

In Absentia said:


> Yep... his behaviour is rather strange.


Asperger people lack the ability to emotionally relate. 
It may be strange to you, because you have the ability to emotionally relate.


----------



## In Absentia

jonty30 said:


> Asperger people lack the ability to emotionally relate.
> It may be strange to you, because you have the ability to emotionally relate.


Well, of course. But I was talking about ADD, not Asperger's. Nevertheless, "strange" is a poor choice of words.


----------



## jonty30

In Absentia said:


> Well, of course. But I was talking about ADD, not Asperger's. Nevertheless, "strange" is a poor choice of words.


I understand what you were trying to say. People with Aspergers often seem strange because also often lack boundaries. 
When I was a child, I often would never ask about getting something from somebody's fridge, because it never made sense to ask for permission. I didn't understand that. 
It doesn't mean that all people with emotional limitations will act identically, as they were all raised different. It's just that they give they same type of consideration.


----------



## Andy1001

I don’t think your husband is listening to you @spicynug, he certainly doesn’t seem to be hearing what you’re telling him. 
Maybe you should write him a letter spelling out exactly why you are upset with him. If that doesn’t work then I honestly don’t know how you can move forward in this relationship. You’ve probably burned bridges with his family by refusing to attend thanksgiving with them, especially since you don’t know exactly what he’s been telling them about you. 
He’s a spoiled little boy, typical “oops” baby who only has sisters and no real father figure other than the spineless idiot he calls dad. 
You know what, copy your in-laws on the letter too.


----------



## Andy1001

@jonty30 While everything you write about asbergers is true wouldn’t this behaviour have shown up before now. They were together for a few years before marriage, it’s not like they didn’t know each other.


----------



## jonty30

Andy1001 said:


> @jonty30 While everything you write about asbergers is true wouldn’t this behaviour have shown up before now. They were together for a few years before marriage, it’s not like they didn’t know each other.


You're right on that, but we also don't know what she was overlooking in order to be married to him.
Quirks that seem cute before marriage can also be the reasons for aggravations during marriage.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> He would never consider it


Well are you sure? How about you ask.

If he wouldn't consider it then what does that say? It's ok for him and his family to cancel plans with you, making him cancel a birthday trip and exclude you but it isn't ok for you to want to go see family and cancel on them?

Look if you are sure then it really is as simple as you aren't a priority over family. Some people are ok with that or not ok but live with it for a lifetime. Others are not ok and want to be the number one priority for their spouse. Only you can decide what is right for you. I encourage you to explore your feelings and decide how you want to live. If you are going to choose to stay and live as his second priority then you should go to Thanksgiving and try to build a relationship with his family or you will never get any consideration. You should also think about spending the weekend when he goes with them to better get to know them. 

If you don't want to do these things and you aren't happy with being number 2 then rethink things as it won't change.


----------



## Anastasia6

jonty30 said:


> I have ADHD and Aspergers.
> I also have a very high IQ, which has allowed me to bridge the gaps of my deficiencies with a lot of faking empathy, just to get along with people.
> If your husband also has some Aspergers, he doesn't have the emotional capacity to understand why your birthday is important to you and why leaving you behind if MIL in-law thinks only family members should be going. He is basically a walking data base, without the capacity in understanding the emotional spectrum. I've had to spend many years learning how to compensate for my inability to understand emotions, so I can seem like I have a lot of empathy, when I don't necessarily do.
> 
> What I suggest is telling him directly that birthdays are important to you and tell him that if it is important to you, it should be considered important to him. Tell him that is normal for a wife and husband. He doesn't have to understand why it's important to you, as long as he understands that he needs to respond as if it is important to him as well.


Except Aspergers or not she can't make him care about her and her feelings. So leaving and finding an adult capable of putting her and her needs above his mom is way easier. These things don't change because he's been raised by mom and thinks it's ok. He's said as much even though she has expressed how unhappy she is. He isn't listening. So he doesn't want to learn.


----------



## jonty30

Anastasia6 said:


> Except Aspergers or not she can't make him care about her and her feelings. So leaving and finding an adult capable of putting her and her needs above his mom is way easier. These things don't change because he's been raised by mom and thinks it's ok. He's said as much even though she has expressed how unhappy she is. He isn't listening. So he doesn't want to learn.


I completely agree, if she has told him that her birthday was important, but he wasn't responsive. 
If he hasn't been told, it might not occur to him that birthdays are inherently important to some people and should be considered to him because it is important to her. 
Birthdays are a day to me. That is how I was raised. However, if the wife told me that birthdays were important to her, they would become important to me because they are important to her. It wouldn't change my inner thoughts about birthdays, because you can't change your internal culture, but I would make a point of treating her birthday as a special day because it's for her.

He may not be able to bridge that gap to make it important to her, because he doesn't understand that and he doesn't have it in him to treat it as important.


----------



## Harold Demure

Two points:

1) Do you think his family is actually aware of the hurt they are causing you? Do they know about your cancelled birthday trip? Do they also have this total lack of empathy?

How would you feel about writing to his mother and father laying out what had happened and how it has hurt you? This may enable you to get your side of the story out without interruption or instant dismissal.

2) You can gauge what you need to do next by their response to your letter. If, as I anticipate, they are unable or unwilling to even acknowledge your feelings then I really do think you should run for the hills, just get out whilst you can.

If they go down this route, their treatment of you is only going to get worse, you are only going to become increasingly frustrated and you may find yourself trapped financially and emotionally if there are children involved. Either that or you become a Stepford wife.

I really do feel for you


----------



## Anastasia6

jonty30 said:


> I completely agree, if she has told him that her birthday was important, but he wasn't responsive.
> If he hasn't been told, it might not occur to him that birthdays are inherently important to some people and should be considered to him because it is important to her.
> Birthdays are a day to me. That is how I was raised. However, if the wife told me that birthdays were important to her, they would become important to me because they are important to her. It wouldn't change my inner thoughts about birthdays, because you can't change your internal culture, but I would make a point of treating her birthday as a special day because it's for her.
> 
> He may not be able to bridge that gap to make it important to her, because he doesn't understand that and he doesn't have it in him to treat it as important.


Doesn't matter. He's been told she is hurt her is spending 10 days in Hawaii without her after she was invited. It doesn't have to be B-day related. That's just icing on the cake. She has expressed her hurt and he has only words. Meaningless words.


----------



## Anastasia6

Harold Demure said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1) Do you think his family is actually aware of the hurt they are causing you? Do they know about your cancelled birthday trip? Do they also have this total lack of empathy?
> 
> How would you feel about writing to his mother and father laying out what had happened and how it has hurt you? This may enable you to get your side of the story out without interruption or instant dismissal.
> 
> 2) You can gauge what you need to do next by their response to your letter. If, as I anticipate, they are unable or unwilling to even acknowledge your feelings then I really do think you should run for the hills, just get out whilst you can.
> 
> If they go down this route, their treatment of you is only going to get worse, you are only going to become increasingly frustrated and you may find yourself trapped financially and emotionally if there are children involved. Either that or you become a Stepford wife.
> 
> I really do feel for you


Problem isn't the family it's the husband. Many of us have family in laws that aren't our cup of tea. What matters is your spouse and how they interact with family.


----------



## jonty30

Anastasia6 said:


> Doesn't matter. He's been told she is hurt her is spending 10 days in Hawaii without her after she was invited. It doesn't have to be B-day related. That's just icing on the cake. She has expressed her hurt and he has only words. Meaningless words.


I agree with you, she should be the priority. I understand his inability to see her side because Aspergers have trouble conceptualizing the other person's point of view.
Regardless of him and his limitations, she's going to have to decide if she can live with him and his inability to understand other. 

Don't think I'm excusing him, because I'm not. If a person says something is important to them, he should see it as important. This is true, even if he cannot understand himself why it's important.


----------



## lifeistooshort

jonty30 said:


> I completely agree, if she has told him that her birthday was important, but he wasn't responsive.
> If he hasn't been told, it might not occur to him that birthdays are inherently important to some people and should be considered to him because it is important to her.
> Birthdays are a day to me. That is how I was raised. However, if the wife told me that birthdays were important to her, they would become important to me because they are important to her. It wouldn't change my inner thoughts about birthdays, because you can't change your internal culture, but I would make a point of treating her birthday as a special day because it's for her.
> 
> He may not be able to bridge that gap to make it important to her, because he doesn't understand that and he doesn't have it in him to treat it as important.


This isn't totally unique to people with Asperger's. Many people differ in the things they find important and a basic tenet of a successful relationship is that what matters to your partner should matter to you.

Lots if people who don't have Asperger's don't find birthdays important. I know I try to think about what matters to my SO, nor what I think should matter.

He knows its important to her. She's already said they take trips for their birthdays and gas already tried to apologize without canceling his momma trip. So Asperger's or not he knows its an issue abs at this point is playing dumb.

There are inconsistencies in how he's handling this that tell me he's just playing dumb and hoping she lets it go.


----------



## Anastasia6

jonty30 said:


> I agree with you, she should be the priority. I understand his inability to see her side because Aspergers have trouble conceptualizing the other person's point of view.
> Regardless of him and his limitations, she's going to have to decide if she can live with him and his inability to understand other.
> 
> Don't think I'm excusing him, because I'm not. If a person says something is important to them, he should see it as important. This is true, even if he cannot understand himself why it's important.


Also he doesn't have Aspergers that anyone knows of. He's lack of feeling is just being an ASS


----------



## In Absentia

jonty30 said:


> Quirks that seem cute before marriage can also be the reasons for aggravations during marriage.


For 4 years?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blondilocks said:


> I'm trying to suss out if he is even capable of understanding her position. Otherwise, his dismissive attitude toward her and subsequent bleatings is beyond the pale. Who wants to be married to someone that stupid? Or, someone who wants to pretend to be that stupid.
> 
> I think OP should recommend her husband see a doctor to determine if he his neural pathways are good because his brain does not seem to be firing on all cylinders. Put the shoe on the other foot with him.


That's a fair point, but I'm skeptical because if something wasn't wired quite right I would expect more consistency in his reactions.

He's already cycled through apologizing, throwing a tantrum, and playing dumb. That doesn't strike me as one on the spectrum who truly doesn't get it.

This guy knows its a problem, he just isn't mature enough to deal with it. He doesn't need to be married.


----------



## jonty30

Anastasia6 said:


> Also he doesn't have Aspergers that anyone knows of. He's lack of feeling is just being an ASS


Unless he's been tested, he can't necessarily know. 
ADHD or ADD and Aspergers are often related to each other. It's not uncommon to have both within the same person. 
I don't disagree with you that he is being inconsiderate, because he is. He needs to learn to treat it as important, if he's going to learn to get along with a woman.


----------



## jonty30

In Absentia said:


> For 4 years?











I haven't read, or I've forgotten, if she has stated that this is a change, where birthdays were important but suddenly they were not.


----------



## Cynthia

Do you split holidays between your wife of the family and his, or do you only celebrate holidays with his family?
When I was growing up, we had Thanksgiving with my dad's family and Christmas with my mom's family. My husband and I spend all holidays with my side of the family since his family is over 2,000 miles away. Most couples have some sort of rotation worked out.


----------



## Cynthia

I think you should ask your husband to read this entire thread and let him know that this has fundamentally changed how you view him and your marriage.


----------



## Livvie

Anastasia6 said:


> Well are you sure? How about you ask.
> 
> If he wouldn't consider it then what does that say? It's ok for him and his family to cancel plans with you, making him cancel a birthday trip and exclude you but it isn't ok for you to want to go see family and cancel on them?
> 
> Look if you are sure then it really is as simple as you aren't a priority over family. Some people are ok with that or not ok but live with it for a lifetime. Others are not ok and want to be the number one priority for their spouse. Only you can decide what is right for you. I encourage you to explore your feelings and decide how you want to live. If you are going to choose to stay and live as his second priority then you should go to Thanksgiving and try to build a relationship with his family or you will never get any consideration. You should also think about spending the weekend when he goes with them to better get to know them.
> 
> If you don't want to do these things and you aren't happy with being number 2 then rethink things as it won't change.


I think an issue with the frequent weekends is that they won't let the dog come, if I'm recalling correctly.


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> For 4 years?


They were young, like 22 years old. Yeah, sometimes grown up relationship issues don’t come up until people are a little older. Heck the brain isn't even fully developed yet at 22 and 23. 

Why are you hating so much on the OP, with so many oppositional posts?


----------



## Livvie

lifeistooshort said:


> This is totally unique to people with Asperger's. Many people differ in the things they find important and a basic tenet of a successful relationship is that what matters to your partner should matter to you.
> 
> Lots if people who don't have Asperger's don't find birthdays important. I know I try to think about what matters to my SO, nor what I think should matter.
> 
> He knows its important to her. She's already said they take trips for their birthdays and gas already tried to apologize without canceling his momma trip. So Asperger's or not he knows its an issue abs at this point is playing dumb.
> 
> There are inconsistencies in how he's handling this that tell me he's just playing dumb and hoping she lets it go.


It's not really about just a birthday, though. 

This trip means they don't get any annual trip together. He's shooting his wad of annual vacation time on this trip with his parents that his wife was disinvited from.


----------



## Anastasia6

Livvie said:


> I think an issue with the frequent weekends is that they won't let the dog come, if I'm recalling correctly.


Sure they won't let the dog come. But if you are going to stay and he puts his family first she will need to navigate this if she is going to stay. I mean. I'd have left after his reaction. The initial response of sure I'll go without my wife would have already put me on edge but then after explaining my feelings he does nothing. I'd be gone. But that is one of my top relationship issues. I expect to be first above everyone else including my child. I put my husband first above everyone else including my child, family what have you. Maybe this isn't a deal breaker for her. Then she needs to find a way to get closer to the family. It's an important part of his life and will reduce friction. MIL wouldn't have left her out if she 'loved' her DIL like her own from years of being together.

I think not letting the dog come is an example of how they don't care if she comes or not. But face it dogs can stay home. Some people with no animals don't want the hair and such in their house.

I am simply advocating that she make conscious decisions instead of letting everything just roll. Either you aren't ok with being number 2 or your are. If you are going to stay make a conscious decision to integrate better and be part of your husband's life and family. If she's staying then she needs to make moves to strengthen the marriage. It is easy to let things slide and oh I have 4 years in, 6 years in, 10 years.... til next thing you know you have wasted your youth being number 2 and not really being happy. So if you choose to stay then stay and figure out a plan to make it better.
He isn't changing. Only she can change.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> They were young, like 22 years old. Yeah, sometimes grown up relationship issues don’t come up until people are a little older. Heck the brain isn't even fully developed yet at 22 and 23.
> 
> Why are you hating so much on the OP, with so many oppositional posts?


I'm not "hating on the OP". I think my posts have come out all wrong. What I always meant is that in every marriage you have to compromise. I find it strange that all of a sudden her husband turns into a selfish ****. They've been together 5 years... surely, she must have noticed how attached he is to his family? I get it's a blow for the wife and I would be upset too, but at then end of the day, she is making him choose between his family and his wife. They can compromise, talk about it and reach an agreement of sorts. I don't think this argument is something to divorce over. Especially if he has ADD. And they are only 27. Maybe I am too liberal and too tolerant.


----------



## Anastasia6

In Absentia said:


> I'm not "hating on the OP". I think my posts have come out all wrong. What I always meant is that in every marriage you have to compromise. I find it strange that all of a sudden her husband turns into a selfish ****. They've been together 5 years... surely, she must have noticed how attached he is to his family? I get it's a blow for the wife and I would be upset too, but at then end of the day, she is making him choose between his family and his wife. They can compromise, talk about it and reach an agreement of sorts. I don't think this argument is something to divorce over. Especially if he has ADD. And they are only 27. Maybe I am too liberal and too tolerant.


And he's made it plain. That agreement would have to be that his mom comes first. She maybe ok with that.

ETA: How would feel about them spending Thanksgiving at home, just the two of them in a staycation to reconnect and not go to the families for thanksgiving. Especially considering he spends about 2 days a month there anyway? Do you think that's a compromise?


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> I'm not "hating on the OP". I think my posts have come out all wrong. What I always meant is that in every marriage you have to compromise. I find it strange that all of a sudden her husband turns into a selfish ****. They've been together 5 years... surely, she must have noticed how attached he is to his family? I get it's a blow for the wife and I would be upset too, but at then end of the day, she is making him choose between his family and his wife. They can compromise, talk about it and reach an agreement of sorts. I don't think this argument is something to divorce over. Especially if he has ADD. And they are only 27. Maybe I am too liberal and too tolerant.


What sort of compromise? He decided, without talking to her first, that he is going on that trip. And now he has no more vacation time. On what point is he able to compromise?


----------



## minimalME

In Absentia said:


> I'm not "hating on the OP". I think my posts have come out all wrong. What I always meant is that in every marriage you have to compromise. I find it strange that all of a sudden her husband turns into a selfish ****. They've been together 5 years... surely, she must have noticed how attached he is to his family? I get it's a blow for the wife and I would be upset too, but at then end of the day, she is making him choose between his family and his wife. They can compromise, talk about it and reach an agreement of sorts. I don't think this argument is something to divorce over. Especially if he has ADD. And they are only 27. Maybe I am too liberal and too tolerant.


So why can't the acceptable choice be _he already has_ a vacation planned - with his wife. During her birthday. 

He's breaking plans that were already established with his wife to go on this new trip with his parents. For 10 days. 😳 

The more reasonable concession is that the mom gets to be disappointed.


----------



## spicynug

Cynthia said:


> Do you split holidays between your wife of the family and his, or do you only celebrate holidays with his family?
> When I was growing up, we had Thanksgiving with my dad's family and Christmas with my mom's family. My husband and I spend all holidays with my side of the family since his family is over 2,000 miles away. Most couples have some sort of rotation worked out.


We spend one day at each, this year thursday is my parents and Friday is supposed to be his parents. And the same for Christmas


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> We spend one day at each, this year thursday is my parents and Friday is supposed to be his parents. And the same for Christmas


That's what most ppl do. 

Do you think he really has some kind of brain issue or do you feel he's trying to con you?


----------



## spicynug

Cindywife said:


> That's what most ppl do.
> 
> Do you think he really has some kind of brain issue or do you feel he's trying to con you?


I think he has trouble concentrating but he knows birthdays are important to me. He says he really didn’t think it would bother me. But I think he’s just wanting to bury his head, get his free trip, and just hope I’ll get over it.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I think he has trouble concentrating but he knows birthdays are important to me. He says he really didn’t think it would bother me. But I think he’s just wanting to bury his head, get his free trip, and just hope I’ll get over it.


I agree. I have trouble concentrating but I sure as hell know right from wrong. Today, it will be a romantic Hawaii vacation you miss, tomorrow it will be something else.

Tell him you want to spend time alone with *your* family so you can "process" the Hawaii vacation.


----------



## spicynug

Cindywife said:


> I agree. I have trouble concentrating but I sure as hell know right from wrong. Today, it will be a romantic Hawaii vacation you miss, tomorrow it will be something else.
> 
> Tell him you want to spend time alone with *your* family so you can "process" the Hawaii vacation.


He’s said if it were my family inviting me on a trip without him he’d be happy for me that I was able to go do that


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> He’s said if it were my family inviting me on a trip without him he’d be happy for me that I was able to go do that


OMG...

He's conning you. It's not Aspergers: it's crappy husband disorder.


----------



## spicynug

Cindywife said:


> OMG...
> 
> He's conning you. It's not Aspergers: it's crappy husband disorder.


Yeah idk why aspergers came up, I never thought he had that. He’s only been diagnosed with ADD which is no excuse not when he can make everyone else happy


----------



## jonty30

spicynug said:


> Yeah idk why aspergers came up, I never thought he had that. He’s only been diagnosed with ADD which is no excuse not when he can make everyone else happy


It became a possibility, because he's so dispassionate about disappointing you.
If he doesn't have Aspergers, he's definitely you treating too casually.


----------



## Diana7

spicynug said:


> We talked a little he says he’s sorry that this was such a blow. I told him he couldn’t think for himself that his every thought depended on mommy and daddy. He said he’s going to try to show me that he does see me as a priority but no mention of not going to Hawaii so I don’t know how he thinks that’s possible and I told him so. Basically I’m not ready to walk out I know it sounds stupid and immature but I still love him, but I know I can’t stay in a marriage that makes me feel this way. So I guess I’m waiting until I feel ready.


Get some good marriage counseling and try to enable him to see that changes need to be made.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> I think he has trouble concentrating but he knows birthdays are important to me. *He says he really didn’t think it would bother me. *But I think he’s just wanting to bury his head, get his free trip, and just hope I’ll get over it.


Ok, suppose he really didn't think. We all do dumb stuff sometimes. But now he knows for sure it is a BIG issue. Most men would be thinking "oh sh*t! I have really fouled up!" Does ADD prevent him from becoming enlightened, calling mommy and telling her while you listen "Sorry, but I had promised the wife a trip to xyz before you asked me. Since we aren't both invited on your trip, I have changed my mind and the two of us will be going on the trip we originally planned" Seems very simple to me. Does a person with ADD not have the ability to realize that life will be better for HIM ( and you) if he makes that call?


----------



## Galabar01

spicynug said:


> I just informed him I wouldn’t be going for thanksgiving and he’s upset, like he really can’t fathom why I wouldn’t want to be around them all. And I’m acting ridiculous. I told him I didn’t feel welcome and he said, without a hint of irony, that that’s the opposite of what they want. That they want me around more not less


It feels like you are slowly slicing up your marriage. I think a better approach would be to simply offer him an ultimatum about the trip -- he goes and you are done. You seems to be taking a more passive-aggressive approach. I'm not sure if that will work.

A shock to his system might cause him to "grow up." However, this long, drawn out process probably won't. I'm not sure you'll get the result you want the way you are going.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> What sort of compromise? He decided, without talking to her first, that he is going on that trip. And now he has no more vacation time. On what point is he able to compromise?


Spend 5 days with his family and 5 days with his wife?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

In Absentia said:


> Spend 5 days with his family and 5 days with his wife?


Would it really have been such a big deal to let her come with when she and her H offered to pay for her to go. That seems like a reasonable compromise to me. The fact that the MIL shot that idea down means she is nothing more than a selfish, uncompassionate *****. I don't know how you can interpret that any other way. I mean @spicynug is a free woman and allowed to go where she wants, but his mommy say no!? If I were her I would have talked to the MIL my self and said either I'm coming with, at my own expense, or MY husband isn't going. It is a family vacation and last I checked spouses are family. Why doesn't the MIL have her own husband stay home? He isn't blood after all.


----------



## Rus47

As a parent of four grown and married kids, I will just say neither wife or I would have *ever *considered inviting our kid without their partner. The kids are grownups for crying out loud! And their spouses are part of the family. It is all of them or none of them. And splitting the difference??!! Half time with us and half time with the wife. No way.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

@spicynug You're husband does seem to be rather stupid and tone deaf about all this, but here is something to consider. What example does he have for how a marriage and marital priorities are supposed to work? He grew up with what sounds like a very selfish mother. Who knows what all has gone on between her and her husband while he was growing up. He also had two significantly older sisters that act like mini-mom to him. He may really not know how a healthy marriage works because he's never seen it.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rus47 said:


> As a parent of four grown and married kids, I will just say neither wife or I would have *ever *considered inviting our kid without their partner. The kids are grownups for crying out loud! And their spouses are part of the family. It is all of them or none of them. And splitting the difference??!! Half time with us and half time with the wife. No way.


Exactly. Once you are married you are a package deal.


----------



## lifeistooshort

BigDaddyNY said:


> @Savannah01 You're husband does seem to be rather stupid and tone deaf about all this, but here is something to consider. What example does he have for how a marriage and marital priorities are supposed to work? He grew up with what sounds like a very selfish mother. Who knows what all has gone on between her and her husband while he was growing up. He also had two significantly older sisters that act like mini-mom to him. He may really not know how a healthy marriage works because he's never seen it.


I think you may have the wrong poster.

This thread belongs to @spicynug .


----------



## BigDaddyNY

lifeistooshort said:


> I think you may have the wrong poster.
> 
> This thread belongs to @spicynug .


Yes, thank you, edited...


----------



## Openminded

As long as he doesn’t admit you have a point, he can pretend you’re the problem so expect that to continue.


----------



## MissJan21

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


You are not overreacting. I'm going to share my story and I hope it helps you understand your husband's family dynamics.
I have been married for 20 years, my husband who is 30 years my senior loves me a lot in his own narcissistic way. The only family he has is his step sister. The second time she met me after my wedding she told me straight at my face that she was jealous of me because I took her step brother's attention away from her. My narcissistic husband and his insecure and overly jealous 71 year old sister would trash me behind my back, once I found out I told her to back off. 
She was so hurt that I dared to tell her wrinkly face to back off. My husband supported her and called my feelings crap.
We are in the middle of the divorce proceeding. But wait a minute, he's 77 I'm 47. I'm taking off with a few millions in divorce settlement. 
Your husband family sounds as narcissistic as mind. 
Your husband probably loves you very much but he has to pretend that his mama is his # 1 otherwise she will bully him, intimidate him, crush him until he feels disconnected and broken. 
Narcissistic and toxic family don't know what love and support are, their insecurity overpowers them and they hang on to each other for fear of being alienated from the group.

Your husband won't leave you and won't treat you as his priority either because he knows that you are the empathic one, you are hurt for the way he treats you but as time goes by and you build a strong marriage you will start feeling so sorry for him for the fact that he lacks empathy.
This was exactly what happened to me until I found an email my husband confesed to his step sister that she was his priority. That email freed me of guilt of leaving him. So here I am divorcing him and because of his age I am going to get full physical custody, a marital home + some other assets. I'm set for life. Thank you insecure toxic inlaw for freeing me. 
My advice is to leave now FAST.


----------



## Robert22205

Taking a stand at TG is a great start. It's smart as well as courageous of you.

Are you extending this to all future activities with his family?


----------



## spicynug

Robert22205 said:


> Taking a stand at TG is a great start. It's smart as well as courageous of you.
> 
> Are you extending this to all future activities with his family?


I’m not sure I’m seeing if anything happens


----------



## jonty30

spicynug said:


> I’m not sure I’m seeing if anything happens


He may not respond to anything you do, if you're not willing to be serious.
When I say that, don't threaten divorce unless you can mean it.


----------



## Rus47

.


----------



## Rus47

.


----------



## Rus47

She doesnt need to mention divorce. Just do whatever she would like and ignore any romance attempts from husband. I predict less than a week before he capitulates and sues for peace. Mommy doesnt know the misery she has brought on her baby boy 😆😆


----------



## MattMatt

In Absentia said:


> I'm not "hating on the OP". I think my posts have come out all wrong. What I always meant is that in every marriage you have to compromise. I find it strange that all of a sudden her husband turns into a selfish ****. They've been together 5 years... surely, she must have noticed how attached he is to his family? I get it's a blow for the wife and I would be upset too, but at then end of the day, she is making him choose between his family and his wife. They can compromise, talk about it and reach an agreement of sorts. I don't think this argument is something to divorce over. Especially if he has ADD. And they are only 27. Maybe I am too liberal and too tolerant.


First time the opportunity to holiday with parents has arisen?


----------



## spicynug

MattMatt said:


> First time the opportunity to holiday with parents has arisen?


Yes


----------



## Bobby5000

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?





spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


If the other children were going alone, then go along with it. I think the key to harmony is flexibility in appropriate situations. So let them have one family vacation and perhaps next year they will invite spouses.


----------



## Misera"bel"

spicynug said:


> I'm trying to cope with my feelings being hurt and just want some insight into this situation.
> So, a while back my husband's father called and told my husband they had an extra bedroom come available on their Hawaii vacation. That if my husband and I would like to join them (husband's mom and dad) on vacation we could pay half for the room and pay our flights. We discussed it and were both excited to go.
> 
> The very next day his dad calls him back and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.
> My husband asked his dad that since I had already been invited could me and him just pay for our own separate room and flights so I could still go? His mother said no, no spouses allowed, just family, like the good old days. He agreed to it and just casually mentioned to me later that day that I was no longer invited just he was that it was a family trip now. And he thinks this is normal and that I would have no cause to feel left out or any type of way about it.
> 
> It has led to us having to cancel the trip we had planned already so he would have enough time from work to go. We won't get to vacation together next year so that he can go on the trip with his family. So I can either go somewhere alone or just stay home. Up until this point travel has been a big hobby of ours, we love planning trips and saving for them.
> 
> I'm really hurt over being uninvited and my husband just being totally fine excluding me, I feel that he's not my partner in life and that I'm not his family or in any way his priority. We've been married just about 1 year if that matters.
> Am I overreacting?


 I read this aloud to my husband and asked him what he thought of the situation. He said, “Eff that! If you’re married it should be BOTH! Otherwise, he can say-Forget it then! We aren’t going. This is FAMILY-REGARDLESS. THERE ARE NO EXCLUSIONS. It does not exclude anyone once there is a ring on your finger that INCLUDES MAN AND WIFE! If they cannot face that fact then say g’bye! If he chooses that route, then you can say goodbye to him as well. Apparently, he needs to think about your happiness as well. Don’t be so selfish and leave you at home alone or think of some place to go on your own. Maybe you should take a trip elsewhere, you might meet someone better and will think of you equally and unconditionally! I feel what he’s done is UNJUST! My husband and I’ve been married for 25 years. It ain’t the best marriage but I’m still stuck with him. He promised me so much and I’ve gotten nothing. No house. No real happy marriage. Heck…we have 5 kids and we don’t even sleep together let alone go on dates. We’re both 45. It’s been forever since we’ve been near each other to cuddle etc. but I still don’t care to cheat or anything. Nope. I have a ring on my finger andI don’t care to cheat. As far as I see it…Relationships are headaches. lol. So I’m still w/ him. Taking care of our kids and trying my best to care for our kids as we struggle. Both of us being disabled. Him being on dialysis due to needing a kidney and heart issues and me having epilepsy due to a drunk driver. Smh. I can’t save anymore lives in medical field. 💔 Not yet anyway. One day…I will again. Where there’s a will there’s a way. •sigh• but anyway, be strong. Hold your head up and believe in yourself and trust your instincts. Decide what you want to do. Trust in your intuition. 😉👍 God bless!


----------



## Harold Demure

I think the majority of men have been caught between the mother and wife at some time and most of us get through it by compromises.

Is this incident the culmination of lots of incidents that has made you think you have had enough or is it truly a one off?

To be honest, I don't get the impression that your husband loves you and that you are there to provide him with a comfortable home life as "the little wifey" because that is how he seems to treat you.


----------



## Marc878

spicynug said:


> I think he has trouble concentrating but he knows birthdays are important to me. He says he really didn’t think it would bother me. But I think he’s just wanting to bury his head, get his free trip, and just hope I’ll get over it.


He’s selfish. He doesn’t care about you. Fully awaken to reality or you’ll get more.


----------



## Cindywife

Bobby5000 said:


> If the other children were going alone, then go along with it. I think the key to harmony is flexibility in appropriate situations. So let them have one family vacation and perhaps next year they will invite spouses.


PLEASE DON'T TAKE BOBBY'S ADVICE

First off the other ppl who are going along with it are guys. Maybe the guys are happy to get rid of their wives for a week and maybe they have plans to do guy stuff or cheat or whatever, you don't know their situation.

She was suppose to go and then she was told she can't go. And it was her BIRTHDAY trip.

It's like a Grimm Fairy tale. "No Cinderella you can't go to Hawaii."

Spicenug, if you wanna continue to be _spicy_ get out of this marriage.


----------



## GC1234

In Absentia said:


> Yes, married 1 year, 4 years together pre-marriage. 5 in years in total. It's surprising these issues are coming to light now.


Yes I can see what you mean!! But maybe due to the fact that they weren't married yet, the OP wasn't expected to go on any trips, or figured it would change and OP would be included once married? There might be a method to the madness here. I'm not sure. Not saying it's ok, but it might be his family's logic.


----------



## GC1234

TXTrini said:


> Not to mention, some people are really good at keeping questionable behavior under wraps until they seal the deal, ye Olde bait and switch. I don't understand the surprise there.


Yes m'am...happened to me. My hubs was NEVER hyper-critical until I got pregnant. Funny how that works.


----------



## Cindywife

GC1234 said:


> Yes I can see what you mean!! But maybe due to the fact that they weren't married yet, the OP wasn't expected to go on any trips, or figured it would change and OP would be included once married? There might be a method to the madness here. I'm not sure. Not saying it's ok, but it might be his family's logic.


Key word being madness.

The situation is so warped.

She's being overpowered by the mob "the family" and being bullied to bend to their wishes. If she wants to waste her 20's messing with this family then that's her choice. Hopefully, she'll realize life is short and being beaten down isn't a way to live.


----------



## MissJan21

spicynug said:


> I've told him I'm not ok with it. I've told him everything I feel about it. They have already paid for his ticket since he immediately agreed to go without me. He's aware I'm not happy, he acts like he cares. But he obviously doesn't care enough to not go or have them lose money on his flight. If I asked him not to go he would not agree to that, he thinks this is fine and doesn't understand my pov. He thinks it's going too far for me to ask him to choose one over the other he doesn't think that is a choice that comes into it. It's simply a family trip and I'm making into more.


Leave your husband now. My husband does the same exact thing to me 'vacation to the BVI' with his family without me. I stuck for 20 years with 2 kids. I went through a lot of emotional pain but I'm getting out of this marriage. He begs me to stay but I'm leaving while I'm still young and find myself a man from a loving, kind and inclusive family.


----------



## Cindywife

MissJan21 said:


> Leave your husband now. My husband does the same exact thing to me 'vacation to the BVI' with his family without me. I stuck for 20 years with 2 kids. I went through a lot of emotional pain but I'm getting out of this marriage. He begs me to stay but I'm leaving while I'm still young and find myself a man from a loving, kind and inclusive family.


It's a form of control. It puts you "in your place."

Parents wanting to spend alone time with their biological children is normal. My mom says to me I want to have a "mom and daughter day." So we go out and do stuff for a couple of hours that my husband wouldn't want to do anyway.

But a vacation is for couples to spend quality time together that they usually don't have.

It's a sick thing when mom tries to "one-up" the wife. When my MIL was alive she'd do that from time to time and I had to defend myself. Yeah it was uncomfortable but I wasn't going to be "the other woman" to his mommy.

You need to nip this crap in the bud. It only gets worse.


----------



## Rus47

Cindywife said:


> PLEASE DON'T TAKE BOBBY'S ADVICE
> 
> First off the other ppl who are going along with it are guys.* Maybe the guys are happy to get rid of their wives for a week and maybe they have plans to do guy stuff or cheat or whatever, you don't know their situation.*
> 
> She was suppose to go and then she was told she can't go. And it was her BIRTHDAY trip.
> 
> It's like a Grimm Fairy tale. "No Cinderella you can't go to Hawaii."
> 
> Spicenug, if you wanna continue to be _spicy_ get out of this marriage.


Especially the guy who married the Mommy's daughter who is just like her. He probably glad to have 10 days without having to knuckle under to her


----------



## Rus47

Cindywife said:


> It's a form of control. It puts you "in your place."
> 
> *Parents wanting to spend alone time with their biological children is normal. My mom says to me I want to have a "mom and daughter douldn't want to do anyway*.
> 
> You need to nip this crap in the bud. It only gets worse.


Women spending a Saturday with their mom and/or sisters visiting garage sales, men going fishing with their brothers and/or dad for a day is normal. We have encountered families in exotic destinations where the grandparents had paid for ALL of the offspring, in-laws, grandkids, whole gang.


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> Women spending a Saturday with their mom and/or sisters visiting garage sales, men going fishing with their brothers and/or dad for a day is normal. We have encountered families in exotic destinations where the grandparents had paid for ALL of the offspring, in-laws, grandkids, whole gang.


I wouldn’t have even expected them to pay for either my husband or me


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## Blondilocks

Rus47 said:


> Women spending a Saturday with their mom and/or sisters visiting garage sales, men going fishing with their brothers and/or dad for a day is normal. We have encountered families in exotic destinations where the grandparents had paid for ALL of the offspring, in-laws, grandkids, whole gang.


Back in the '70s, I annually booked reservations at the Royal Lahaina in Kauai for boss and his extended family. He picked up the tab for one and all - including SOs.


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## Robert22205

Don't be surprised if there's no reaction from his family.

IMO your husband will provide his family with a soft version of why you are not joining them for TG (the list is endless). Specifically, he will not tell them the real reason (I hope I'm wrong). 

I think you should draft up an email (it's also therapeutic even if not sent) to be sent to each member of his family stating how they make (intentionally use present tense) you feel - and be prepared to send it the day before TG. 

And if you do have to send the email to shake the tree and expose the truth - ghost them, do not take calls or respond to texts until after TG. 

Last but not least. What reaction from your husband/his family would save your marriage long term?

For example: an apology from the mother (not the father), they invite you (or your husband doesn't go), your husband goes for just a weekend, or therapy for your husband.


----------



## spicynug

Robert22205 said:


> Don't be surprised if there's no reaction from his family.
> 
> IMO your husband will provide his family with a soft version of why you are not joining them for TG (the list is endless). Specifically, he will not tell them the real reason (I hope I'm wrong).
> 
> I think you should draft up an email (it's also therapeutic even if not sent) to be sent to each member of his family stating how they make (intentionally use present tense) you feel - and be prepared to send it the day before TG.
> 
> And if you do have to send the email to shake the tree and expose the truth - ghost them, do not take calls or respond to texts until after TG.
> 
> Last but not least. What reaction from your husband/his family would save your marriage long term?
> 
> For example: an apology from the mother (not the father), they invite you (or your husband doesn't go), your husband goes for just a weekend, or therapy for your husband.


My husband to decide not to go


----------



## Rus47

Blondilocks said:


> Back in the '70s, I annually booked reservations at the Royal Lahaina in Kauai for boss and his extended family. He picked up the tab for one and all - including SOs.


Perfectly normal! Better yet make a trip to islands wedding present if have the means. Mommy and daddy could have gifted a trip to OP as wedding present at minimal cost over paying for baby boy to join them. Just imagine the goodwill that would have bought! It would have lasted a lifetime!


----------



## lifeistooshort

spicynug said:


> My husband to decide not to go


So are you leaving if he goes?

I think further advice should depend on the answer to this question because if you're sticking around the goal needs to be drawing boundaries you're willing and able to enforce along with coping mechanisms.


----------



## spicynug

lifeistooshort said:


> So are you leaving if he goes?
> 
> I think further advice should depend on the answer to this question because if you're sticking around the goal needs to be drawing boundaries you're willing and able to enforce along with coping mechanisms.


I want to stay and work on things. I guess I’m hoping this is a one off but even I know that sounds naive


----------



## Blondilocks

spicynug said:


> My husband to decide not to go


Don't be so easy on him. As Rus has pointed out (a few times, now), your husband may have an epiphany only because he gets horny. 

A better guide to his psyche would be to have him do a little soul searching and offer up just how he has been so misguided in his insistence that you are the one being unreasonable and ridiculous. Don't spoon feed him. He needs to do this on his own.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> My husband to decide not to go


OK. If he doesn't go and is really sweet to you maybe there's hope yet.

(When I first read your answer I thought he decided not to go.)


----------



## Diana7

BigDaddyNY said:


> Exactly. Once you are married you are a package deal.


Or even in a long term relationship I would say.


----------



## Rus47

Robert22205 said:


> Don't be surprised if there's no reaction from his family.
> 
> IMO your husband will provide his family with a soft version of why you are not joining them for TG (the list is endless). Specifically, he will not tell them the real reason (I hope I'm wrong).
> 
> I think you should draft up an email (it's also therapeutic even if not sent) to be sent to each member of his family stating how they make (intentionally use present tense) you feel - and be prepared to send it the day before TG.
> 
> And if you do have to send the email to shake the tree and expose the truth - ghost them, do not take calls or respond to texts until after TG.
> 
> Last but not least. What reaction from your husband/his family would save your marriage long term?
> 
> For example: an apology from the mother (not the father), they invite you (or your husband doesn't go), your husband goes for just a weekend, or therapy for your husband.


I will respectfully disagree on putting anything like this into writing. It freezes the dynamic and lasts forever and can easily be misunderstood.

A face to face “frank exchsnge of views” is much better IMO


----------



## GC1234

spicynug said:


> I want to stay and work on things. I guess I’m hoping this is a one off but even I know that sounds naive


I hear you, I'm married for a while, and unfortunately I haven't had the guts to follow through with what I know I need to do. The thing that holds me back is my kids. My husband guilt trips me all the time and makes it about them and what it would do to them if I ended things (thankfully I don't fall into his trap), but I also think to myself..."well, if you cared about the kids so much, you wouldn't do what you do, right?". It's all deflection and manipulation.

Be smart about it, you don't have kids yet...Do not put yourself in my position. Things won't change when you have kids, case in point, your sister in laws...they have kids right? Has anything changed for their husbands? Nope. See the red flags for what they are. There is no working on things, at least not for your husband. You're going to be doing all the work while he enjoys an amazing vacation...he'll 'work on it', when the vacation is said and done with, when he sees you're a doormat and he can 'dangle the carrot' in front of you by saying he'll 'work on it'. I don't mean any disrespect to you, I just know manipulation when I see it.


----------



## Cindywife

GC1234 said:


> I hear you, I'm married for a while, and unfortunately I haven't had the guts to follow through with what I know I need to do. The thing that holds me back is my kids. My husband guilt trips me all the time and makes it about them and what it would do to them if I ended things (thankfully I don't fall into his trap), but I also think to myself..."well, if you cared about the kids so much, you wouldn't do what you do, right?". It's all deflection and manipulation.
> 
> Be smart about it, you don't have kids yet...Do not put yourself in my position. Things won't change when you have kids, case in point, your sister in laws...they have kids right? Has anything changed for their husbands? Nope. See the red flags for what they are. There is no working on things, at least not for your husband. You're going to be doing all the work while he enjoys an amazing vacation...he'll 'work on it', when the vacation is said and done with, when he sees you're a doormat and he can 'dangle the carrot' in front of you by saying he'll 'work on it'. I don't mean any disrespect to you, I just know manipulation when I see it.


You are giving her a peek into her future which is kind. 

All I can say at this point is spicy you are still in your 20's, very little time married, have no kids and you seem like a good person. You're in a great position now to say "I guess I made a mistake marrying this guy. Time to MOVE on."

If he goes on that vacation I would spend the week getting myself ready for divorce. If he decides not to go take it one step at a time.


----------



## MissJan21

spicynug said:


> My husband to decide not to go


My heart goes out to you. I hope your husband decides to not go to this upcoming vacation and to any other family vacations unless 'they' invite you also. If he goes and you decide to stay in the marriage anyway, this is what's going to happen.

1. Every argument you and your husband have he will share with his family because he needs their validation. There is a big hole in his heart that no one can ever fill...not you, not his mom not his sister. Your husband needs excessive admiration and attention, he loves the spotlight and he doesn't care if you feel lonely, invisible and left out.
2. His family will stab you in the back and call it a private conversation.
3. When he disrespects you his family won't try to correct his behavior, instead they will enable him because they don't know how to support their son/brother in a healthy way. But if he dares to disrespect them he will be grilled.
4. You will open your heart inside out to let him know how you are hurt by his words and actions he won't hear you. He may change his behavior for 10 consecutive days but not longer than that.
5. you will find out that his family members are extremely insecure and they love belittling you behind your back. The ones that are not so insecure will leave you alone.
6. There's a golden child and a scapegoat in his family and the grandchildren will not be treated equally.

My 20 year marriage was a rough ride but I learn a lot from it. The most valuable knowledge I gain by watching my narcissistic toxic husband and his ultra insecure step sister is that emotional abuse in the family robs a child's love and security and replaces them with an empty soul that can never be filled.
I am determined to raise my children very different from how my husband was raised, I am also determined to send a message to my kids that it is never ok for a spouse to put any other person before his spouse and children. 
I wish you the best, if you decide to stay, be strong and surround yourself with true friends because your heart will be broken many times and you will need the support that your husband is unable to provide.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> My husband to decide not to go


Is this supposed to be he decided not to go or you hoping he decided not to go?


----------



## Beach123

spicynug said:


> He’s said if it were my family inviting me on a trip without him he’d be happy for me that I was able to go do that


So he is taking HIS feelings about a situation and EXPECTING that YOU feel the same way. This is dangerous for any marriage. He also isn’t hearing you and considering you.

In other words - he’s totally disrespecting you.


----------



## re16

Although your husband is acting very immature in this, you don't have to follow his lead. The mature thing to do would be to talk to his parents. Hec, I'd even do it at Thanksgiving.

When you start going tit for tat with someone whose actions you look down upon, you suddenly end up at their level.

If this issue is going to blow up, you might as well do it with class and direct communication instead of hearsay back and forth.


----------



## suburbanmom

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think maybe you should consider therapy for yourself. I only say that because the more I think about this situation, the fact that it doesn't sound like (correct me if I am wrong) you immediately responded with, "are you kidding me right now? You think you're going to blow through all your vacation time on a trip that I just got uninvited from, in lieu of my birthday trip??? I don't think so, buster" and just refused to listen to him talk about it again, suggests that as much as he's super immature and inconsiderate of you, you may also be too passive and not very considerate of you, either.

I don't mean this to be critical-you genuinely seem like such a nice person with a good head on your shoulders-but you also sound like you're really letting yourself get pushed around and could use a little coaching at standing up for yourself, drawing boundaries, etc.


----------



## GC1234

Beach123 said:


> So he is taking HIS feelings about a situation and EXPECTING that YOU feel the same way. This is dangerous for any marriage. He also isn’t hearing you and considering you.
> 
> In other words - he’s totally disrespecting you.


I don't think he'd be happy about it. I just think the shoe isn't on the other foot yet. I'd be willing to bet that if he was left out, I don't think he'd like it.


----------



## Cindywife

GC1234 said:


> I don't think he'd be happy about it. I just think the shoe isn't on the other foot yet. I'd be willing to bet that if he was left out, I don't think he'd like it.


You got that right.

Spicy is isolated from her family right now which makes her very vulnerable. She should pack up and move home for a bit and her head together. This situation has abuse written all over it. It sounds like the mother is testing the waters. If she can get her son to go on vacation without his wife she'll be able to ask him for ANYTHING. This family is bad news.


----------



## GC1234

Cindywife said:


> You are giving her a peek into her future which is kind.
> 
> All I can say at this point is spicy you are still in your 20's, very little time married, have no kids and you seem like a good person. You're in a great position now to say "I guess I made a mistake marrying this guy. Time to MOVE on."
> 
> If he goes on that vacation I would spend the week getting myself ready for divorce. If he decides not to go take it one step at a time.


Agree!! Unfortunately it's not our decision to make.


----------



## GC1234

Cindywife said:


> You got that right.
> 
> Spicy is isolated from her family right now which makes her very vulnerable. She should pack up and move home for a bit and her head together. This situation has abuse written all over it. It sounds like the mother is testing the waters. If she can get her son to go on vacation without his wife she'll be able to ask him for ANYTHING. This family is bad news.


Yes, definitely toxic. I just realized though, why does the husband tell the parents when they fight?? That's so weirdddd. Even my husband wouldn't go that far, we're both private with stuff like that. Our families don't even know we went to marriage counseling.


----------



## Beach123

It’s appropriate to say that you don’t want to spend the holidays with them when they are willing to exclude you from a “family” vacation. I mean - can’t they see that contradiction?
Why would you go to a holiday with them when they purposely choose to exclude you from the family vacation? You are family now.

Your husband is weak and hasn’t learned where his alliance should be. If he’s that immature - he shouldn’t be married to anyone!


----------



## Beach123

GC1234 said:


> Yes, definitely toxic. I just realized though, why does the husband tell the parents when they fight?? That's so weirdddd. Even my husband wouldn't go that far, we're both private with stuff like that. Our families don't even know we went to marriage counseling.


Because her husband is a Mama’s boy and not concerned with his wife’s feelings/privacy.


----------



## Cindywife

Beach123 said:


> I
> If he’s that immature - he shouldn’t be married to anyone!


...well maybe his mom.


----------



## GC1234

Beach123 said:


> Because her husband is a Mama’s boy and not concerned with his wife’s feelings/privacy.


This is true.


----------



## Blondilocks

GC1234 said:


> Yes, definitely toxic. I just realized though, *why does the husband tell the parents when they fight?? * That's so weirdddd. Even my husband wouldn't go that far, we're both private with stuff like that. Our families don't even know we went to marriage counseling.


I must have missed this. Does he?


----------



## Beach123

Spicy, your husband is disrespecting you in many regards. Do you understand that? 
Has he always done this?


----------



## Openminded

Yes, you do sound naive to think it’s a one-off but I’m sure I did too when I was first married. The thing is, this vacation will likely set a precedent where his mom determines (if she wishes) how her married children spend their future vacations. Why would she willingly give that up?


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Diana7 said:


> Or even in a long term relationship I would say.


Yes, once my future wife and I started living together it became we and us, not me and her.


----------



## GC1234

Blondilocks said:


> I must have missed this. Does he?


Yeah, I think the OP mentioned he gossips about it with his father.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Anastasia6 said:


> Is this supposed to be he decided not to go or you hoping he decided not to go?


She was answering the question, what reaction from your husband would it take to make you want to stay in the relationship, which would be to decide not to go. He hasn't gotten there yet. 



GC1234 said:


> I don't think he'd be happy about it. I just think the shoe isn't on the other foot yet. I'd be willing to bet that if he was left out, I don't think he'd like it.


He already reacted negatively when she said she would go on her previously planned Bday trip without him. Which again, how can he not see the double standard?


----------



## GC1234

BigDaddyNY said:


> She was answering the question, what reaction from your husband would it take to make you want to stay in the relationship, which would be to decide not to go. He hasn't gotten there yet.
> 
> 
> He already reacted negatively when she said she would go on her previously planned Bday trip without him. Which again, how can he not see the double standard?


Because the ones who benefit from the double standard choose not to see it...bwahahahah But you are absolutely right. He is full of it, as I suspected!


----------



## Rus47

Another thought, how about scheduling a face-to-face with you, your husband, Mommy, and daddy. At your home ( or any private venue NOT at the ancestral home.) ASAP. Before the trip. Just lay the whole thing out on the table and describe how their actions make you *FEEL,* how badly they have collectively *HURT* you. That you *FEEL* this is potentially a marriage-ending event. If they refuse to meet under your terms, you have an answer.

If they agree, it will let you see firsthand their responses and avoid any he said/she said, revising what is said. It also doesn't harden positions by putting anything down on paper. The body language says as much as the words. There is a small chance that what you are hearing from hubby isn't what actually happened. Maybe at least one of the three of them will see things from your perspective. If they all three gang up on you and tell you how it is all your problem and fault, you will have a definitive answer about where to go and what do do from here.


----------



## Anastasia6

Rus47 said:


> Another thought, how about scheduling a face-to-face with you, your husband, Mommy, and daddy. At your home ( or any private venue NOT at the ancestral home. ASAP. Before the trip. Just lay the whole thing out on the table and describe how their actions make you *FEEL,* how badly they have collectively *HURT* you. That you *FEEL* this is potentially a marriage-ending event.
> 
> This will let you see firsthand their responses and avoid any he said/she said, revising what is said. It also doesn't harden positions by putting anything down on paper. The body language says as much as the words. There is a small chance that what you are hearing from hubby isn't what actually happened. Maybe at least one of the three of them will see things from your perspective. If they all three gang up on you and tell you how it is all your problem and fault, you will have a definitive answer about where to go and what do do from here.


I believe she was in the room when they 'changed' their mind and decided only family.


----------



## Blondilocks

She doesn't have a beef with the parents. Her point of contention is with her husband.

His father communicated the desire to have family only on the vacation over the phone with her husband.



spicynug said:


> *The very next day his dad calls him back *and tells him that upon further discussion with MIL that she wants it to be 'family only' and that it is going to be my MIL, FIL, both SILs (40's) (both have husbands and small kids that they have to leave home) and my husband (27) and that the parents would pay for everything flights and all.


----------



## Rus47

Blondilocks said:


> She doesn't have a beef with the parents. Her point of contention is with her husband.
> 
> His father communicated the desire to have family only on the vacation over the phone with her husband.


So daddy did Mommy's bidding, 'cuz she didn't have the gall to communicate to OP, the person being told to stay away. And by extension, that OP isn't a member of the family since the vacation is "family only". Sounds like daddy is under momma's thumb too.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Rus47 said:


> So daddy did Mommy's bidding, 'cuz she didn't have the gall to communicate to OP, the person being told to stay away. And by extension, that OP isn't a member of the family since the vacation is "family only". Sounds like daddy is under momma's thumb too.


Which is exactly why I suggested her husband may not fully understand why she is so upset. He grew up as the baby boy in a household with what sounds like a selfish and domineering mother, 2 mini-mom sisters and a dad with no backbone. I bet it was always do what mom says throughout his whole childhood. He has no male role model to show him how it should work.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> I believe she was in the room when they 'changed' their mind and decided only family.


His dad called him while we were gone at work and he told me when I got home that night.


----------



## Rus47

BigDaddyNY said:


> Which is exactly why I suggested her husband may not fully understand why she is so upset. He grew up as the baby boy in a household with what sounds like a selfish and domineering mother, 2 mini-mom sisters and a dad with no backbone. I bet it was always do what mom says throughout his whole childhood. He has no male role model to show him how it should work.


But those in reality are baby boy's problem(s). And only OP's because she didn't recognize she was dating and then married a momma's boy. Not sure how that got by her, but that ship has sailed.

I only suggest having it out verbally with all parties present ( excepting the SILs ) because OP is contemplating ending the marriage. In her shoes, I would want to hear from each persons own mouth why they treated me as they did. I have been in similar situations with relatives, where one of a group was making the whole story up. When got them all into a small room and laid the cards on the table, the one making things up was eviscerated by everyone else in the group. It stopped being my problem and became THEIR problem.


----------



## Andy1001

spicynug said:


> His dad called him while we were gone at work and he told me when I got home that night.


Do you believe him? Because I don’t.
Why don’t you call mil and ask her straight out what her problem is.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> His dad called him while we were gone at work and he told me when I got home that night.


Is there any possibility that hubby was the one who didn't want you along on the trip and he is laying off the blame? Maybe he wants to spend time with the wahine unencumbered by a wife?


----------



## Cindywife

Andy1001 said:


> Do you believe him? Because I don’t.
> Why don’t you call mil and ask her straight out what her problem is.


Nah. Why should she have a one on one with Cruella? She didn't marry his mother she married him.


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> Is there any possibility that hubby was the one who didn't want you along on the trip and he is laying off the blame? Maybe he wants to spend time with the wahine unencumbered by a wife?


No I’ve heard his mom talk about it since


----------



## MissJan21

If OP truly loves herself and has the courage to face the truth she will call and ask. Then she will file for a divorce no matter who made the decision to exclude her.


----------



## Misera"bel"

Openminded said:


> You’re getting a really good look at how your life with those people will go for many years to come. They all think it’s normal. It definitely wouldn’t be normal for me and I doubt it would be for many people. You have to decide if you can live your life that way because your husband has made his choice in who he plans to side with and he’s not likely to change it. You don’t feel like his priority because you aren’t. And he’s good with that. Think about that for awhile.


Exactly!!!!! 👏 💯 % Truth be told right there!


----------



## Harold Demure

Can we stop talking about the husband as if he is a boy?

My understanding is that he is 27, is that right? If so, let’s recap - 27.

At 27, I was married with a mortgage, job as sole provider and two young children that my wife stayed at home to look after.

We didn’t have time to ponce about like this boy.

Time for him to grow up and step up or ship out.


----------



## Galabar01

spicynug said:


> My husband to decide not to go


That's a positive step in the right direction. Maybe this is his first step into manhood. For now, I would ignore the doom and gloom here and see where things go.


----------



## marshy

That's only what she wishes. Not what he is doing. He's still going


----------



## pastasauce79

spicynug said:


> I want to stay and work on things. I guess I’m hoping this is a one off but even I know that sounds naive


Personally, I don't blame you. It would be hard for me to end my marriage because of a trip I wasn't invited to. BUT, I would implement the 180, and I would put a lot of distance between my husband and I while I figure things out. 

Take your time, take care of yourself and your priorities. Don't let your heart lead your life. You have to act smart if you want to be successful. 

He needs to realize you are not joking about how hurt you are. Men are thick sometimes. 

Maybe you can forgive him once and only once, 2nd strike and he's out! But you have to mean it!!!


----------



## DownByTheRiver

GC1234 said:


> Yeah, I think the OP mentioned he gossips about it with his father.


No surprise considering they're both little more than a couple of old hens.


----------



## pastasauce79

Cindywife said:


> Nah. Why should she have a one on one with Cruella? She didn't marry his mother she married him.


I think she needs to be sure everything her husband says about his mom is true.


----------



## Livvie

pastasauce79 said:


> I think she needs to be sure everything her husband says about his mom is true.


OP has heard the MIL talk about it. It's true.


----------



## In Absentia

Bobby5000 said:


> If the other children were going alone, then go along with it. I think the key to harmony is flexibility in appropriate situations. So let them have one family vacation and perhaps next year they will invite spouses.


You are not going to win the crowd over with this reasoning... I'm waiting for the wife to serve her papers now.


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> You are not going to win the crowd over with this reasoning... I'm waiting for the wife to serve her papers now.


The OP is not filing for divorce at this time. Or, are you referring to your wife serving you with divorce papers?


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> The OP is not filing for divorce at this time. Or, are you referring to your wife serving you with divorce papers?


lol... my wife will never serve ME with divorce papers...  I was talking about the OP. I re-read a few previous posts and you are correct. She is taking time to think, but since the husband is still going and this is such a deal-breaker, then there's only one solution to this.


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> lol... my wife will never serve ME with divorce papers...  I was talking about the OP. I re-read a few previous posts and you are correct. She is taking time to think, but since the husband is still going and this is such a deal-breaker, then there's only one solution to this.


At this time, he still intends to go. Stay tuned - I have a sneaking suspicion that once he manages to get his pride under control that he'll find a way to bow out of the planned trip and make amends to the OP. Of course, he'd be on a diet of water and bread until he did that if it were up to me. But, you know how mean I can be.


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> At this time, he still intends to go. Stay tuned - I have a sneaking suspicion that once he manages to get his pride under control that he'll find a way to bow out of the planned trip and make amends to the OP. Of course, he'd be on a diet of water and bread until he did that if it were up to me. But, you know how mean I can be.


My impression is that he is very close to his family and he doesn't want to disappoint them. If he didn't go because of his wife's veto, well, then she wouldn't be the flavour of the month... for many months, actually  He thinks that his wife will come around and I think this too. She'll accept it and get on with it. In every relationship you have to find a balance and the inlaws can be a big problem. They need to find a way to deal with it in a way which is acceptable to both. But stopping your husband to see his family and basically asking him to choose between his family and his wife, surely it's not the way to go. But what do I know? Apparently I'm ill-equipped to deal with life and relationships and I should keep my mouth shut....


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> My impression is that he is very close to his family and he doesn't want to disappoint them. If he didn't go because of his wife's veto, well, then she wouldn't be the flavour of the month... for many months, actually  He thinks that his wife will come around and I think this too. She'll accept it and get on with it. In every relationship you have to find a balance and the inlaws can be a big problem. They need to find a way to deal with it in a way which is acceptable to both. But stopping your husband to see his family and basically asking him to choose between his family and his wife, surely it's not the way to go. But what do I know? *Apparently I'm ill-equipped to deal with life and relationships and I should keep my mouth shut...*.


Well, in this case - yes.  The guy can't even concede that inviting someone on vacation and then telling them they can't come but the spouse is expected to be there is RUDE. Both he and his family need to scout out a book on social etiquette instead of acting like a bunch of damn troglodytes.

Let's party like it's 10,000 years BC - woohoo.


----------



## Andy1001

In Absentia said:


> My impression is that he is very close to his family and he doesn't want to disappoint them. If he didn't go because of his wife's veto, well, then she wouldn't be the flavour of the month... for many months, actually  He thinks that his wife will come around and I think this too. She'll accept it and get on with it. In every relationship you have to find a balance and the inlaws can be a big problem. They need to find a way to deal with it in a way which is acceptable to both. But stopping your husband to see his family and basically asking him to choose between his family and his wife, surely it's not the way to go. But what do I know? Apparently I'm ill-equipped to deal with life and relationships and I should keep my mouth shut....


With respect you’re missing a very important point. The husband in question sees his family every week.


----------



## In Absentia

Andy1001 said:


> With respect you’re missing a very important point. The husband in question sees his family every week.


I thought it was once a month.


----------



## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> Well, in this case - yes.  The guy can't even concede that inviting someone on vacation and then telling them they can't come but the spouse is expected to be there is RUDE. Both he and his family need to scout out a book on social etiquette instead of acting like a bunch of damn troglodytes.
> 
> Let's party like it's 10,000 years BC - woohoo.


yes, the husband made a big mistake: not asking his wife first. That's totally unforgivable, but I think his ADD plays a big part in it.


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> yes, the husband made a big mistake: not asking his wife first. That's totally unforgivable, but I think his ADD plays a big part in it.


Yes, and that could have been remedied when he learned how it hurt his wife. Instead, he doubled down and told her she was being ridiculous. Real nice, huh?

This guy is not going to get a pass from the OP or members of this forum until he acknowledges that what he and his family want to do is mean to his wife and does not promote marital harmony. Since he likes his family's company so much, maybe he needs to move back home until he really is ready to leave the nest.


----------



## Livvie

In what universe is it okay to use up all of your annual vacation time going on a trip with your parents, that your wife wanted to go on too and was told she's unwelcome on!!!!!, and that necessitated canceling an already planned trip with your wife?

No one nice does that to their spouse.

This guy isn't even long term boyfriend material, let alone husband material.


----------



## Cindywife

Livvie said:


> In what universe is it okay to use up all of your annual vacation time going on a trip with your parents, that your wife wanted to go on too and was told she's unwelcome on!!!!!, and that necessitated canceling an already planned trip with your wife?
> 
> No one nice does that to their spouse.
> 
> This guy isn't even long term boyfriend material, let alone husband material.


I hear you. If my husband said "Oh BTW honey I'm going to Hawaii with my mommy and she said you can't come anymore," I would be at a loss for words.

First, I'd check if it was some sick joke.

Then I'd pack up and leave.


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> I thought it was once a month.


His dad comes to our city every Wednesday and they play golf


----------



## Rus47

Cindywife said:


> I hear you. If my husband said "Oh BTW honey I'm going to Hawaii with my mommy and she said you can't come anymore," I would be at a loss for words.
> 
> First, I'd check if it was some sick joke.
> 
> *Then I'd pack up and leave.*


Op ought to just buy a trip from their joint account to the islands for herself, and maybe her best gf. Go to the same resort as hubby n family. Wear string bikinis all day long by the pool and in the lounge, let the males there drool, be sure hubby n company get an eyefull of the attention. Let hubby contemplate all the fun he is missing.

Let OP see how real males behave. Hint, they aren't thinking of momma all of the time.


----------



## ccpowerslave

Rus47 said:


> Wear string bikinis all day long…


If my wife was like hmm you know what I’m going to the most boring place ever for 10d but you know what I am packing some string bikinis; I’m dropping what my plans were and going to hell because I want the string bikinis!


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> His dad comes to our city every Wednesday and they play golf


ok, but that's not quit like a family reunion, though, is it? How are things with him? Is h still determined to go?


----------



## Diana7

In Absentia said:


> yes, the husband made a big mistake: not asking his wife first. That's totally unforgivable, but I think his ADD plays a big part in it.


Yet his two sisters are also going without their spouses and children. Doubt if they have ADD.


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> ok, but that's not quit like a family reunion, though, is it? How are things with him? Is h still determined to go?


He basically has a family reunion on his weekends away idk why you’re acting like he never sees his family. We’re both pretty distant right now so we haven’t said much to each other


----------



## Robert22205

Do you know if he's informed his parents that you're not coming for TG?

What's he doing this weekend?


----------



## spicynug

Robert22205 said:


> Do you know if he's informed his parents that you're not coming for TG?
> 
> What's he doing this weekend?


No he well assume I’ll change my mind then when I don’t he’ll just tell them I’m busy when he goes. Idk what he’s doing I’m going to visit my friend back home she’s just got some bad news about her mother


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> No he well assume I’ll change my mind then when I don’t he’ll just tell them I’m busy when he goes. Idk what he’s doing I’m going to visit my friend back home she’s just got some bad news about her mother


Then that's where you belong. The world is filled with ppl who will tell you how to think. 

Standing your ground isn't easy but you know what's right for you and you'll feel better when you follow your gut.


----------



## pastasauce79

spicynug said:


> No he well assume I’ll change my mind then when I don’t he’ll just tell them I’m busy when he goes. Idk what he’s doing I’m going to visit my friend back home she’s just got some bad news about her mother


You could call his family and let them know you are not going to their house for Thanksgiving and why. 

You can set the record straight. I have the feeling your husband hasn't told them how he ignored your birthday. I have the feeling they don't have a clue about how hurt you are.


----------



## spicynug

My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


----------



## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


So I guess that's a start. The question becomes is it enough? Are you happy knowing after enforcing your boundaries he changed his mind?

If you decide it's enough and you are going to stay and be happy then you really should try to figure out a way to better bond with this family or it will always be a struggle.

Try going some of the weekends. Or something.

Congratulations on keeping your boundaries firm.


----------



## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> So I guess that's a start. The question becomes is it enough? Are you happy knowing after enforcing your boundaries he changed his mind?
> 
> If you decide it's enough and you are going to stay and be happy then you really should try to figure out a way to better bond with this family or it will always be a struggle.
> 
> Try going some of the weekends. Or something.
> 
> Congratulations on keeping your boundaries firm.


I’m glad that he decided not to go. I think that hopefully means we can work on things. I probably should put more effort in to go be around his family so that’s what I’m going to work on


----------



## Quad73

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


Hallelujah


----------



## Diana7

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


That's positive.


----------



## Diana7

spicynug said:


> I’m glad that he decided not to go. I think that hopefully means we can work on things. I probably should put more effort in to go be around his family so that’s what I’m going to work on


Make sure you know what he has told his parents about why he isn't going. Hopefully he has taken responsibility for making the wrong decision.


----------



## Galabar01

spicynug said:


> I’m glad that he decided not to go. I think that hopefully means we can work on things. I probably should put more effort in to go be around his family so that’s what I’m going to work on


That's great. He ended up making the correct decision. Going forward, I hope you can both put each other first in your relationship.


----------



## pastasauce79

spicynug said:


> I’m glad that he decided not to go. I think that hopefully means we can work on things. I probably should put more effort in to go be around his family so that’s what I’m going to work on


Yes! 

Positive reinforcement really works. Let him know how much you appreciate him and his commitment to you. 

Good luck!


----------



## Galabar01

pastasauce79 said:


> Yes!
> 
> Positive reinforcement really works. Let him know how much you appreciate him and his commitment to you.
> 
> Good luck!


The other option is to passive-aggressively grind him into the dirt know that you've "won." Don't do that.


----------



## Laurentium

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


That's good, but there's a conversation that now needs to happen. About families and boundaries. 
What shouldn't happen is him saying _"you got your way, now let's move on"_ with no further talk.


----------



## In Absentia

Laurentium said:


> That's good, but there's a conversation that now needs to happen. About families and boundaries.
> What shouldn't happen is him saying _"you got your way, now let's move on"_ with no further talk.


yes... a conversation is clearly a big priority since a massive can of worms has been opened. Hopefully, the husband will have the necessary maturity not to resent his wife and get on with it. But I feel this episode has greatly damaged their relationship and also the relationship between the husband and his family, who also will see the wife as the devil incarnate...


----------



## spicynug

Laurentium said:


> That's good, but there's a conversation that now needs to happen. About families and boundaries.
> What shouldn't happen is him saying _"you got your way, now let's move on"_ with no further talk.


He’s not he says it’s his choice not to go that it’s not on me and I asked if he’d resent me when everyone else goes and he doesn’t and he says no he won’t that he realizes he wouldn’t want to be there without me. He said he is going focus on us being each other’s first priority. But I need to work on going to more family stuff instead of avoiding it all.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


This is WONDERFUL news in the immediate. Maybe he realizes the marriage had a near death experience because of his actions. Hopefully he will follow up by taking you on your birthday trip because he still has a lot to make up for IMO..If the ADD has anything to do with the tone deafness, he needs some guidance to avoid repeating Maybe MC would help.

As someone else mentioned, positive reinforcement to reward is appropriate. You know what that means. Reinforce that you are much more fun than mommy and daddy. Rock his world lol.

Your young marriage still has a long road to fully recover. Hubby has to fully appreciate he is a married man, the two of you are ONE flesh, and no one interferes with that. Anyone who disrespects you is disrespecting him.


----------



## Blondilocks

I suggest you listen in on the phone call where he informs his parents he has changed his mind. You don't want to show up at Thanksgiving to be ambushed by angry family.

BTW, isn't it curious that he had a change of heart since you informed him that you won't be going to Thanksgiving with him? Will you be going now?


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> This is WONDERFUL news in the immediate. Maybe he realizes the marriage had a near death experience because of his actions. Hopefully he will follow up by taking you on your birthday trip because he still has a lot to make up for IMO..If the ADD has anything to do with the tone deafness, he needs some guidance to avoid repeating Maybe MC would help.
> 
> Your young marriage still has a long road to fully recover. Hubby has to fully appreciate he is a married man, the two of you are ONE flesh, and no one interferes with that. Anyone who disrespects you is disrespecting him.


We are going to plan a trip together for my birthday


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> I suggest you listen in on the phone call where he informs his parents he has changed his mind. You don't want to show up at Thanksgiving to be ambushed by angry family.
> 
> BTW, isn't it curious that he had a change of heart since you informed him that you won't be going to Thanksgiving with him? Will you be going now?


He said showed him that I really felt like I didn’t belong and now we’re here. Yeah I’m going to go now, if we’re both going to work on our relationship I’m not going to keep punishing him. I’m not going to forget obviously but I want to work on things. We’re spending a day at my family’s and a day at his.


----------



## Rus47

spicynug said:


> He’s not he says it’s his choice not to go that it’s not on me and I asked if he’d resent me when everyone else goes and he doesn’t and he says no he won’t that he realizes he wouldn’t want to be there without me. He said he is going focus on us being each other’s first priority.* But I need to work on going to more family stuff instead of avoiding it all.*


Is this your appraisal or him telling you this? Hopefully the former. It is actually is family's task to welcome you and rectify the wrong done to you and your husband. In our case, after my "discussion" with my parents early in our marriage, they went out of their way to build confidence in my wife and me that they wanted a good relationship with us. She was the one who had been hurt by their actions.


----------



## Robert22205

Great news. Also wise and very self aware to realize you have been avoiding his family. 

Don't just go to his family activities but let your husband see you giving it 100% and participate & engage them. I'm not suggesting you have to be the life of the party. Same with your marriage go 100% in. 

I've had family that I had nothing in common with so I researched/planned ahead of time to identify common ground/topics to discuss.

Finally, you should know the reason he gave for not going (so you're both on the same page).


----------



## AGoodFlogging

Interesting thread. At least the husband came to his senses in the end. I think the MIL is a lost cause. She wanted her babies back with her all to herself and that is all kinds of toxic and controlling. Who doesn't consider the spouses of their adult children "family"?

By all means @spicynug dig in and do more with the family but remember who you are dealing with in your MIL and her weak enabler in your FIL and don't get in positions where you can be attacked or hurt.


----------



## spicynug

Rus47 said:


> Is this your appraisal or him telling you this? Hopefully the former. It is actually is family's task to welcome you and rectify the wrong done to you and your husband. In our case, after my "discussion" with my parents early in our marriage, they went out of their way to build confidence in my wife and me that they wanted a good relationship with us. She was the one who had been hurt by their actions.


I do avoid going because they’re a big family and loud, and also finding out about Hawaii made me even more reluctant to go for obvious reasons


----------



## lifeistooshort

That's great news.....there is hope for him.

This may have been addressed but it is VITALLY important that he own this with his parents and not throw you under the bus by telling them YOU were upset. If he does that you're going to be relegated to the bad guy role.

He has to tell them that he thought about it and realized that it wasn't fair, as a husband, to cancel a birthday trip with his wife for a solo trip with his family. Especially when he was going to use all of his vacation time for it and have nothing left for you.

You show up as a package or not at all.


----------



## ConanHub

lifeistooshort said:


> That's great news.....there is hope for him.
> 
> This may have been addressed but it is VITALLY important that he own this with his parents and not throw you under the bus by telling them YOU were upset. If he does that you're going to be relegated to the bad guy role.
> 
> He has to tell them that he thought about it and realized that it wasn't fair, as a husband, to cancel a birthday trip with his wife for a solo trip with his family. Especially when he was going to use all of his vacation time for it and have nothing left for you.
> 
> You show up as a package or not at all.


@spicynug , this is important.

My in laws were pretty bad too and, though Mrs. Conan never put me second, she did allow them to bad mouth me to her for a few years.

I told her I was tired of hearing what they were saying so, if she didn't want to shut them up, she could at least keep it to herself since none of them were brave enough to say anything to me.

She made me proud. She told them off in no uncertain terms and told them I was her husband and she loved me and if they wanted to say anything about me, they had to say it to me. I'm a little intimidating so they chose not to.

The important thing is that your husband stand for you in front of his family and draw hard boundaries for your marriage. He would be protecting himself in the process because you are his future.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I do avoid going because they’re a big family and loud, and also finding out about Hawaii made me even more reluctant to go for obvious reasons


Your marriage now has a chance. You'll probably get some backhanded remarks at Thanksgiving but that's OK. You married him not his family. Maybe you'll be able to have a better relationship with his family. IDK. 

After the Hawaii fiasco I'd never trust his mom again but I would act nice towards her.

Nice as possible I suppose.


----------



## Diana7

What was his parents reaction when he told them? Did he take responsibility?


----------



## DownByTheRiver

I wouldn't say to overdo the positive reinforcement because that would be a bit like praising a dog who got up on the kitchen counter and knocked something off but then didn't eat it. He still made this mess. But certainly a hug and a thank you. I'm sure you've probably already seen to that.

Good luck going forward but definitely have some ground rules and boundaries laid out to follow in the future.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Cindywife said:


> Your marriage now has a chance. You'll probably get some backhanded remarks at Thanksgiving but that's OK. You married him not his family. Maybe you'll be able to have a better relationship with his family. IDK.
> 
> After the Hawaii fiasco I'd never trust his mom again but I would act nice towards her.
> 
> Nice as possible I suppose.


I would just be immaculately polite when around them so that anyone who tries to bad mouth you will look like a ghoul. I wouldn't put myself out for them though. I would just be unoffensive.


----------



## Beach123

Does he now understand if his family offers any get together he should talk about it with you first before giving them any answer?

His standard answer to them should be “let me check with my wife about these plans”.

I’d also like to know what he actually said to his parents when he turned down their offer. I hope he didn’t make you the bad guy in this mess.

His Mom is divisive. That’s good to know - be ready…she will deliver more of the same.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

His mom is not only divisive but she doesn't seem to care if anybody knows it.


----------



## sideways

MissJan21 said:


> You are not overreacting. I'm going to share my story and I hope it helps you understand your husband's family dynamics.
> I have been married for 20 years, my husband who is 30 years my senior loves me a lot in his own narcissistic way. The only family he has is his step sister. The second time she met me after my wedding she told me straight at my face that she was jealous of me because I took her step brother's attention away from her. My narcissistic husband and his insecure and overly jealous 71 year old sister would trash me behind my back, once I found out I told her to back off.
> She was so hurt that I dared to tell her wrinkly face to back off. My husband supported her and called my feelings crap.
> We are in the middle of the divorce proceeding. But wait a minute, he's 77 I'm 47. I'm taking off with a few millions in divorce settlement.
> Your husband family sounds as narcissistic as mind.
> Your husband probably loves you very much but he has to pretend that his mama is his # 1 otherwise she will bully him, intimidate him, crush him until he feels disconnected and broken.
> Narcissistic and toxic family don't know what love and support are, their insecurity overpowers them and they hang on to each other for fear of being alienated from the group.
> 
> Your husband won't leave you and won't treat you as his priority either because he knows that you are the empathic one, you are hurt for the way he treats you but as time goes by and you build a strong marriage you will start feeling so sorry for him for the fact that he lacks empathy.
> This was exactly what happened to me until I found an email my husband confesed to his step sister that she was his priority. That email freed me of guilt of leaving him. So here I am divorcing him and because of his age I am going to get full physical custody, a marital home + some other assets. I'm set for life. Thank you insecure toxic inlaw for freeing me.
> My advice is to leave now FAST.


T/J
So you married someone who was THIRTY YEARS older than you and on top of that a narcissist?? And now you've been "freed"??


----------



## DownByTheRiver

As far as his mother-in-law and any co-conspirators go, just stick to that basic rule that you don't reward bad behavior. That's why I say don't go overboard trying to please them but just be polite unless they really do something to your face that deserves a defense and your husband fails to provide it.


----------



## Quad73

spicynug said:


> But I need to work on going to more family stuff instead of avoiding it all.


Was this regarding Thanksgiving, or had you been avoiding inlaw visits generally?

How often is he expecting you both to visit them?


----------



## spicynug

Quad73 said:


> Was this regarding Thanksgiving, or had you been avoiding inlaw visits generally?
> 
> How often is he expecting you both to visit them?


It’s since I found out about Hawaii so a few months. He didn’t say he just wants me to be more open to the idea of going


----------



## Galabar01

spicynug said:


> I do avoid going because they’re a big family and loud, and also finding out about Hawaii made me even more reluctant to go for obvious reasons


You can go now, knowing that your husband has your back. Build on this. You should go to these family events. However, make sure you tell your husband you expect him to take your side and protect you from any family mischief (and you do the same for him).

I'm glad you avoided the "grind him into the dirt" advice that some have given here...


----------



## MattMatt

Galabar01 said:


> You can go now, knowing that your husband has your back. Build on this. You should go to these family events. However, make sure you tell your husband you expect him to take your side and protect you from any family mischief (and you do the same for him).
> 
> I'm glad you avoided the "grind him into the dirt" advice that some have given here...





Galabar01 said:


> You can go now, knowing that your husband has your back. Build on this. You should go to these family events. However, make sure you tell your husband you expect him to take your side and protect you from any family mischief (and you do the same for him).
> 
> I'm glad you avoided the "grind him into the dirt" advice that some have given here...


That advice was given before OP was able to give us updated information about her husband and his support of her v his own family.

I don't think anyone advised her to "grind him into the dirt."


----------



## Diana7

Op has he told his parents yet? If so what did he say and how did they take it?


----------



## Diana7

Op has he told his parents yet? If so what did he say and how did they take it?


----------



## Galabar01

DownByTheRiver said:


> I wouldn't say to overdo the positive reinforcement because that would be a bit like praising a dog who got up on the kitchen counter and knocked something off but then didn't eat it. He still made this mess. But certainly a hug and a thank you. I'm sure you've probably already seen to that.
> 
> ...


I think it's more like a young couple trying to learn boundaries within a marriage. Overdone positive reinforcement is exactly what the situation calls for.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

Galabar01 said:


> I think it's more like a young couple trying to learn boundaries within a marriage. Overdone positive reinforcement is exactly what the situation calls for.


I agree some is called for, but the basic rule to get the right behavior is don't reward bad behavior. I mean, he's not done anything great and above and beyond to get praise. He made a mess and she let him know, and he is helping fix it. Why should she be the one rewarding him. If anything, shouldn't he be the one rewarding her since he wronged her?


----------



## Galabar01

DownByTheRiver said:


> I agree some is called for, but the basic rule to get the right behavior is don't reward bad behavior. I mean, he's not done anything great and above and beyond to get praise. He made a mess and she let him know, and he is helping fix it. Why should she be the one rewarding him. If anything, shouldn't he be the one rewarding her since he wronged her?


I have to disagree on him not doing something great. He's made a breakthrough that could save their marriage. This could lead to a complete 180, where he puts his wife and immediate family (if/when they have kids) first. I can't think of a bigger, better change for their marriage.

Now, I'm not saying the wife has to be a sycophant. However, showing her appreciation for this change of attitude shouldn't be discouraged, and, maybe overly encouraged...


----------



## GC1234

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


Well that's good news. I'm actually shocked, but happy to hear this.


----------



## ConanHub

Hmmm. Not bad. A new hope Yoda sees.😉


----------



## sideways

It's a step in the right direction. 

Let's see if he actually follows through once his mommy starts putting on the full court press. 

Good chance his mom is one of those who's love is given with strings attached. "After everything I've done for you"? "If you don't do *_* I will do this".


----------



## Blondilocks

spicynug said:


> It’s since I found out about Hawaii so a few months. He didn’t say he just wants me to be more open to the idea of going


This has been going on for _*months?*_


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> This has been going on for _*months?*_


Yeah and it just kept coming up over and over again


----------



## In Absentia

spicynug said:


> Yeah and it just kept coming up over and over again


so, it's been going on for months, then you come here, we tell you (well, not me  ) to divorce him and you do tell him and he agrees to cancel the trip. Is this correct? Because I'm confused. Also, you are now telling us that you don't like seeing his family...


----------



## spicynug

In Absentia said:


> so, it's been going on for months, then you come here, we tell you (well, not me  ) to divorce him and you do tell him and he agrees to cancel the trip. Is this correct? Because I'm confused. Also, you are now telling us that you don't like seeing his family...


I didn’t threaten to divorce him first of all. I haven’t wanted to be around them since this trip started being talked about, no. 
No offense and if I’m off base that’s my bad but I think I’m done with responding to you, you seem a little bit antagonistic and I’m just not going to play.


----------



## Blondilocks

OP, this went on far, far too long. Keep your guard up. He may be playing a long game in that he appeases you to get through the holidays and then the game is back on.


----------



## spicynug

Blondilocks said:


> OP, this went on far, far too long. Keep your guard up. He may be playing a long game in that he appeases you to get through the holidays and then the game is back on.


I understand, I am hopeful but I won’t pretend that the possibly doesn’t exist to be let down.


----------



## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> so, it's been going on for months, then you come here, we tell you (well, not me  ) to divorce him and you do tell him and he agrees to cancel the trip. Is this correct? Because I'm confused. Also, you are now telling us that you don't like seeing his family...


Your bitterness over your wife not wanting to be married to you anymore is showing through. You're projecting your hurt and anger onto the OP. Her marriage does not resemble yours in any shape or form. So, please stop vilifying women who don't give their misbehaving husbands a pass. You saw how your wife giving you a pass all of those years ended up.


----------



## Cindywife

spicynug said:


> I didn’t threaten to divorce him first of all. I haven’t wanted to be around them since this trip started being talked about, no.
> No offense and if I’m off base that’s my bad but I think I’m done with responding to you, you seem a little bit antagonistic and I’m just not going to play.


Good for you!


----------



## minimalME

I'm just being nosy. 😬

Has your husband told his parents that he's not going on the trip? 

If this has already been asked and answered, I apologize.


----------



## spicynug

minimalME said:


> I'm just being nosy. 😬
> 
> Has your husband told his parents that he's not going on the trip?
> 
> If this has already been asked and answered, I apologize.


Yeah, over the phone. He said he’d decided not to go because he didn’t really want to experience a trip like that without his wife and that he didn’t feel right about me being uninvited. That we were going to go on a trip together instead. They didn’t really say much other than oh ok


----------



## ConanHub

spicynug said:


> I didn’t threaten to divorce him first of all. I haven’t wanted to be around them since this trip started being talked about, no.
> No offense and if I’m off base that’s my bad but I think I’m done with responding to you, you seem a little bit antagonistic and I’m just not going to play.


Wisdom.👍


----------



## BigDaddyNY

spicynug said:


> Yeah, over the phone. He said he’d decided not to go because he didn’t really want to experience a trip like that without his wife and that he didn’t feel right about me being uninvited. That we were going to go on a trip together instead. They didn’t really say much other than oh ok


If only he had done this from the start. It would have saved a lot of grief.


----------



## ConanHub

spicynug said:


> Yeah, over the phone. He said he’d decided not to go because he didn’t really want to experience a trip like that without his wife and that he didn’t feel right about me being uninvited. That we were going to go on a trip together instead. They didn’t really say much other than oh ok


This is some good action from him. He's showing his commitment and not just talking about it.


----------



## Andy1001

spicynug said:


> I understand, I am hopeful but I won’t pretend that the possibly doesn’t exist to be let down.


Make sure he doesn’t use this as a bargaining chip in the future. “You wouldn’t let me go on vacation with my family, I deserve a whatever”
He needs a regular kick in the ass in my opinion.


----------



## Galabar01

spicynug said:


> Yeah, over the phone. He said he’d decided not to go because he didn’t really want to experience a trip like that without his wife and that he didn’t feel right about me being uninvited. That we were going to go on a trip together instead. They didn’t really say much other than oh ok


Wonderful! 

Your whole situation sparked a conversation with my wife last night. We talked about how, in our 22+ year marriage, the one constant is that we backed each other up against outside influences. We both agreed that that was key to a long and happy marriage. We can fight, but, as long as we have each others backs, we are going to make it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Andy1001 said:


> Make sure he doesn’t use this as a bargaining chip in the future. “You wouldn’t let me go on vacation with my family, I deserve a whatever”
> He needs a regular kick in the ass in my opinion.


Absolutely. He doesn't get a cookie for doing what a decent spouse is supposed to do.


----------



## In Absentia

Galabar01 said:


> Yup, he's one of the "grind him into the dirt" people that I warned you about...


I think you are mistaking me with someone else...


----------



## Cynthia

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely. He doesn't get a cookie for doing what a decent spouse is supposed to do.


I strongly disagree with this. I have found that praising and encouraging people when they do the right thing has a profound impact on their willingness to continue to do the right thing. I never used to say anything when someone did what I considered their duty, but I would speak up when they did something bad. If I only comment when someone is messing up, that doesn't really help our relationship. However, when I am constantly pointing out what I love about my family and friends and thanking them for their good behaviors, it builds them as people and is good for our relationship. People need to be appreciated.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Cynthia said:


> I strongly disagree with this. I have found that praising and encouraging people when they do the right thing has a profound impact on their willingness to continue to do the right thing. I never used to say anything when someone did what I considered their duty, but I would speak up when they did something bad. If I only comment when someone is messing up, that doesn't really help our relationship. However, when I am constantly pointing out what I love about my family and friends and thanking them for their good behaviors, it builds them as people and is good for our relationship. People need to be appreciated.


Nothing wrong with letting someone know their efforts and appreciated and are helping the relationship.

I was addressing the point a previous poster made about him possibly using it to leverage unreasonable things. The fact is that a married man should never have agreed to a 10 day trip without his wife, canceled her bday trip, feigned shock that she'd still go without him, and then play dumb for months. So no, he doesn't get a huge cookie for finally behaving like a married man. 

Letting him know it is appreciated and good for the marriage is great.

It remains to be seen if he's done this because he actually realized it was a ****ty thing to do, or he's trying to shut her up for the holidays. I truly hope it is the former and they go on to a better marriage.


----------



## Cindywife

lifeistooshort said:


> The fact is that a married man should never have agreed to a 10 day trip without his wife, canceled her bday trip, feigned shock that she'd still go without him, and then play dumb for months. So no, he doesn't get a huge cookie for finally behaving like a married man.


Yep. And nobody said "Divorce him now." She was encouraged to take a step back from the situation, spend time with family and really think about her situation given the short amount of time invested in the marriage and her age and the fact she didn't have kids.

She was given great advice and lo and behold he decided he aint going.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Cindywife said:


> Yep. And nobody said "Divorce him now." She was encouraged to take a step back from the situation, spend time with family and really think about her situation given the short amount of time invested in the marriage and her age and the fact she didn't have kids.
> 
> She was given great advice and lo and behold he decided he aint going.


Yep. I specifically asked what she was inclined to do, whether it was leave or stick around so the advice could he given with that in mind. Said advice has been that if she wanted to stay in the marriage she must take a hard line now as that's the best chance at long term harmony and she's done a good job dealing with this.

Preliminary results look positive....now it's in the watch and wait period. If more people took a hard line on bad behavior early on most would be better off. Either the marriage would end before years of sunk costs or the behavior would improve


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> I didn't say you threatened to divorce him, other members here did. Now you are picking on me - the only person who told you not to divorce over such thing! It's a shame you don't see how his family - especially your MIL - has been demonised here, when people here don't know your husband's family and his mother at all. Others have called your husband and his family all sort of names - I asked you to pause and think - is divorce really the thing to do? Yet, you choose to interact with others because they agree with you. But this is only natural. I regret coming back to this thread. I wish you well.


Simply incredible. You are worrying about the MIL being demonized?

I'm trying to figure out why this thread has triggered you so much. I wonder if it's because you chose to stay in a sub par marriage basically for the kids, so it's uncomfortable to you to hear so many people believe that when young adults, the family of origin unit isn't the end all be all anymore. Because that's what's coming down the road for you, since your kids are older now.


----------



## BigDaddyNY

Galabar01 said:


> Wonderful!
> 
> Your whole situation sparked a conversation with my wife last night. We talked about how, in our 22+ year marriage, the one constant is that we backed each other up against outside influences. We both agreed that that was key to a long and happy marriage. We can fight, but, as long as we have each others backs, we are going to make it.


I talked about this to my wife too, 32 years married, and we couldn't agree more about having each other's back. The whole idea of marriage is you are putting your spouse at the top of the list of all your "people". They are your #1. When I first mentioned this thread's scenario to her I left out all the details. I just asked how would she feel if I came to her and told her my mom wanted to take a family vacation with just mom, dad and me (since I'm an only child). She thought it was odd, but she wouldn't say no right out of the box. Although she would want to understand the whole situation better. As soon as I added even one detail from the @spicynug situation she completely changed her mind. Hawaii without her, nope. 10 days without her, nope. Canceling her vacation so I could go alone, nope. Invited then uninvited, nope. I'm really surprised the husband didn't see this reaction come and I'm equally surprised he didn't see the problem with it from the starts, but for whatever reason he didn't. At least now he is very clear on how @spicynug feels and he seems to have done the right thing. Hopefully a lesson was learned.


----------



## TXTrini

sideways said:


> It's a step in the right direction.
> 
> Let's see if he actually follows through once his mommy starts putting on the full court press.
> 
> Good chance his mom is one of those who's love is given with strings attached. "After everything I've done for you"? "If you don't do *_* I will do this".


This!

My exH didn't start giving in to his family until years after we got married. One day, he called me into the room to hear what he was dealing with (speaker phone), his mother was begging and crying on the phone for over 2 hrs straight to get her way. I never did that, so guess who's feelings took presidence if she felt like getting her way. Men like that have to really want to change and do it o their own.

Anyway, I really hope your H means it and this doesn't come back to haunt you. It really sucks to relive the same issue over and over. Good luck next week!


----------



## ConanHub

Livvie said:


> Simply incredible. You are worrying about the MIL being demonized?
> 
> I'm trying to figure out why this thread has triggered you so much. I wonder if it's because you chose to stay in a sub par marriage basically for the kids, so it's uncomfortable to you to hear so many people believe that when young adults, the family of origin unit isn't the end all be all anymore. Because that's what's coming down the road for you, since your kids are older now.


Dude seems determined to give the most god awful advice he can when it comes to a healthy marriage.

Otherwise, he's pretty witty and agreeable.🙂


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> Dude seems determined to give the most god awful advice he can when it comes to a healthy marriage.
> 
> Otherwise, he's pretty witty and agreeable.🙂


Thanks for the compliments. You know, I could get personal too, but it's not my style.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I appreciate trying to see all sides...that is something I think the board often lacks.

But I can't figure out what could possibly justify the mother actually disinviting her DIL from a 10 day trip to Hawaii. There are no circumstances that I can think of that would make that more understandable.

That's a good way to create a permanent rift in the family, and if she remains a DIL that will come back to haunt mom in ways she doesn't seem to have considered.

And there are no circumstances I can think of to justify a man in a young marriage using up all of his vacation time on a trip without his wife.


----------



## In Absentia

lifeistooshort said:


> I appreciate trying to see all sides...that is something I think the board often lacks.
> 
> But I can't figure out what could possibly justify the mother actually disinviting her DIL from a 10 day trip to Hawaii. There are no circumstances that I can think of that would make that more understandable.
> 
> That's a good way to create a permanent rift in the family, and if she remains a DIL that will come back to haunt mom in ways she doesn't seem to have considered.
> 
> And there are no circumstances I can think of to justify a man in a young marriage using up all of his vacation time on a trip without his wife.


But I didn't justify anything. I just said don't ruin your marriage over such trivial argument. And I stand by it.


----------



## Cindywife

In Absentia said:


> But I didn't justify anything. I just said don't ruin your marriage over such trivial argument. And I stand by it.


I guess you consider a ten day vacation in Hawaii that she was originally going to have with her husband and then told by mommy dearest she couldn't come is trivial.

I shudder to think what you'd call important.


----------



## lifeistooshort

In Absentia said:


> But I didn't justify anything. I just said don't ruin your marriage over such trivial argument. And I stand by it.


This where I think most of us disagree. To many of us this is not trivial.

Husband and wife are a unit, and a spouse who lets their family split that unit is not good spouse material. This kind of thing is not going to be a one off. 

A dinner with just parents and kids is one thing....completely fine. Setting up a vacation of this magnitude without spouses is not...especially when they now don't get one together, ust so mommy can pretend it's still their little family unit. It's a mistake for her to allow a precedent like this to be set.


----------



## In Absentia

lifeistooshort said:


> This where I think most of us disagree. To many of us this is not trivial.
> 
> Husband and wife are a unit, and a spouse who lets their family split that unit is not good spouse material. This kind of thing is not going to be a one off.
> 
> A dinner with just parents and kids is one thing....completely fine. Setting up a vacation of this magnitude without spouses is not...especially when they now don't get one together, ust so mommy can pretend it's still their little family unit. It's a mistake for her to allow a precedent like this to be set.


I agree it wasn't "trivial" and I changed my mind about it. But I never said the husband was right. There was a lot of nasty backlash against the husband and his family, which I thought it was unnecessary, over the top and not useful. I was trying to have a more balanced approach but then people, as usual, start dragging my marriage into it. How useful is that? I can get personal too, but what's the point of that? I find it childish and to me it shows lack of depth.


----------



## Livvie

In Absentia said:


> But I didn't justify anything. I just said don't ruin your marriage over such trivial argument. And I stand by it.


No one but you thinks canceling a trip with your wife to vacation _with your parents instead_, disinviting your wife, and using up ALL of your annual vacation time on said trip, is trivial.


----------



## Galabar01

Cindywife said:


> Yep. And nobody said "Divorce him now." She was encouraged to take a step back from the situation, spend time with family and really think about her situation given the short amount of time invested in the marriage and her age and the fact she didn't have kids.
> 
> She was given great advice and lo and behold he decided he aint going.


Hi Cindywife. I appreciate your posts. However, for this one, I have to disagree. Go back through this thread and find all the references to divorce...


----------



## Luckylucky

lifeistooshort said:


> I appreciate trying to see all sides...that is something I think the board often lacks.
> 
> But I can't figure out what could possibly justify the mother actually disinviting her DIL from a 10 day trip to Hawaii. There are no circumstances that I can think of that would make that more understandable.
> 
> That's a good way to create a permanent rift in the family, and if she remains a DIL that will come back to haunt mom in ways she doesn't seem to have considered.
> 
> And there are no circumstances I can think of to justify a man in a young marriage using up all of his vacation time on a trip without his wife.


Some people like to stir the pot and then stand back and watch everyone destruct. She might be one of these people. 

They are very good at this, it very rarely ends up that they are held responsible. I understand that a lot of blame is being put on the husband. That’s what this lady wants. A husband and wife to go to war, where she is able to claim innocence and say, ‘it’s a marital problem, it’s the wife’s problem, it’s my son’s problem to solve. It very rarely gets to the source. 

Imagine a scenario where the husband and wife are suddenly a United front! The son might not say outright, this is all my mother’s doing 😔. But he might go on that holiday, but develop a greater closeness with his wife. Honey, I can’t wait to see you when I get back, I’m growing tired of my mother and I’m going to go with her, but show my discomfort every single minute of this holiday. That’s a small start.

Imagine a scenario where the entire family stands up and calls it out! All the spouses! Even the old lady’s husband!! We see what you’re doing here, and none of us agree with you! Wouldn’t that rock the foundations… and change the world! 

It takes one person to start the ball rolling and expose the real problem. And tremendous courage to fight the monster, knowing that you may lose. And understanding that everyone else may be too scared.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

In Absentia said:


> Not really. Marriage is a compromise and I just thought people were too harsh towards the husband and his family. They are young and they are still learning. There isn't enough tolerance on this board. Everybody is very direct and harsh. Something I dislike. I try and see all sides. Again, it has nothing to do with my marriage. It's becoming a broken record and rather boring. 🙂 Have a nice and relaxing evening.


Please don't be too upset with everyone. I really appreciate you as a poster and value your opinion. I think part of the value of forums like this is that you do get the benefit of different experience and different opinions. I know it's hard to be on the side of the devil's advocate because I often find myself there as well.


----------



## DownByTheRiver

TXTrini said:


> This!
> 
> My exH didn't start giving in to his family until years after we got married. One day, he called me into the room to hear what he was dealing with (speaker phone), his mother was begging and crying on the phone for over 2 hrs straight to get her way. I never did that, so guess who's feelings took presidence if she felt like getting her way. Men like that have to really want to change and do it o their own.
> 
> Anyway, I really hope your H means it and this doesn't come back to haunt you. It really sucks to relive the same issue over and over. Good luck next week!


I hate women who use crying to get what they want from men, and I especially hate them when they're in the workplace.


----------



## In Absentia

Livvie said:


> No one but you thinks canceling a trip with your wife to vacation _with your parents instead_, disinviting your wife, and using up ALL of your annual vacation time on said trip, is trivial.


I actually said it was a "stupid" reason to split up. Better than encouraging the OP to divorce her husband over this, in my opinion. Most posters here were very very harsh. Not helpful.


----------



## In Absentia

DownByTheRiver said:


> Please don't be too upset with everyone. I really appreciate you as a poster and value your opinion. I think part of the value of forums like this is that you do get the benefit of different experience and different opinions. I know it's hard to be on the side of the devil's advocate because I often find myself there as well.


Thank you for your mature and balanced approach. I'm not upset, but it's not pleasant when people resort to personal attacks and character assassinations.


----------



## Prodigal

In Absentia said:


> Most posters here were very very harsh. Not helpful.


Suggestion: Put folks you consider exceptionally harsh on ignore.


----------



## Rus47

Prodigal said:


> Suggestion: Put folks you consider exceptionally harsh on ignore.


Ignore is one of the most useful features on this site. Eliminates all the heartburn and pointless arguments.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Rus47 said:


> Ignore is one of the most useful features on this site. Eliminates all the heartburn and pointless arguments.


Yeah....you guys who can should take advantage of the option.

Us mods can't.....we have to see every outrageous post to fulfill our role here 😄


----------



## Rus47

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah....you guys who can should take advantage of the option.
> 
> Us mods can't.....we have to see every outrageous post to fulfill our role here 😄


And a HUGE thank you for the role you fill. Medals are deserved


----------



## GC1234

Cynthia said:


> I strongly disagree with this. I have found that praising and encouraging people when they do the right thing has a profound impact on their willingness to continue to do the right thing. I never used to say anything when someone did what I considered their duty, but I would speak up when they did something bad. If I only comment when someone is messing up, that doesn't really help our relationship. However, when I am constantly pointing out what I love about my family and friends and thanking them for their good behaviors, it builds them as people and is good for our relationship. People need to be appreciated.


Reminds me of Pavlov's dogs. They even did this in the show "The Office", lol. But yes, it's good to encourage good behavior.


----------



## ConanHub

Galabar01 said:


> Hi Cindywife. I appreciate your posts. However, for this one, I have to disagree. Go back through this thread and find all the references to divorce...


I'm raising my hand but I did include a caveat about her husband being willing to get help.

I've seen way too many cases of families with their fingers in the marriage, spoiling it.

I see most of us tried to get a feel for what OP wanted though.


----------



## pastasauce79

In Absentia said:


> Not really. Marriage is a compromise and I just thought people were too harsh towards the husband and his family. They are young and they are still learning. There isn't enough tolerance on this board. Everybody is very direct and harsh. Something I dislike. I try and see all sides. Again, it has nothing to do with my marriage. It's becoming a broken record and rather boring. 🙂 Have a nice and relaxing evening.


I agree with you.

We don't know the dynamics of his family of origin. We don't know how his mom thinks. We don't really know anything about their marriage or their families. 

I have a great relationship with my in-laws, but that doesn't mean I agree with them all the time, or that I like the way they are all the time. We are very different. But I appreciate the differences. Without my in-laws, I wouldn't have my husband. 

Compromise is a big element in a successful marriage.


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## In Absentia

Prodigal said:


> Suggestion: Put folks you consider exceptionally harsh on ignore.


Doing that, you lose the flow of the thread. I've put them on Ignore in my head  and I won't comment unless there are more personal attacks.


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## In Absentia

pastasauce79 said:


> I agree with you.


Thank you. I agree with you too...


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## Cindywife

Galabar01 said:


> Hi Cindywife. I appreciate your posts. However, for this one, I have to disagree. Go back through this thread and find all the references to divorce...


Sure. There were references that divorce might wind up being her future. It depends on her and what she felt was an acceptable way to live. If he did go on that vacation that she obviously was (rightfully) upset about how how would she get past it? Should she get past it? The situation was so bad. In the end, he decided not to go. Why? Because going would have put a wedge between their marriage. It's like he was cheating. Instead of going on the vacation with his wife, like planned, the other woman (his mother) said "no son, your wife stays home: you go with me."

I've always said some women might put up with this but "I"d be gone."

I like myself too much. TYVM😘


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## Galabar01

Cindywife said:


> Sure. There were references that divorce might wind up being her future. It depends on her and what she felt was an acceptable way to live...


I was referring to the posts that recommended immediate divorce.


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## Cindywife

Galabar01 said:


> I was referring to the posts that recommended immediate divorce.


Everyone handles things their own way I suppose.


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## jonty30

Galabar01 said:


> I was referring to the posts that recommended immediate divorce.


It's all contextual. There are so many factors here, that is difficult to say how it should go down.


Cindywife said:


> Everyone handles things their own way I suppose.


It's all situational, for me. The ideal solution would be for both to go, even if it means that she much of the time on the beach or shopping if the MIL was just wanting her children and husband.


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## lifeistooshort

Rus47 said:


> And a HUGE thank you for the role you fill. Medals are deserved


Always nice to be appreciated 😀


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## ccpowerslave

lifeistooshort said:


> Absolutely. He doesn't get a cookie for doing what a decent spouse is supposed to do.


Cookies are delicious!


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## spicynug

It's all situational, for me. The ideal solution would be for both to go, even if it means that she much of the time on the beach or shopping if the MIL was just wanting her children and husband.
[/QUOTE]
I definitely am not going on a trip I know I’m not wanted on that’s a pretty unfair way for me to use my vacation time


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## Blondilocks

lifeistooshort said:


> Yeah....you guys who can should take advantage of the option.
> 
> Us mods can't.....we have to see every outrageous post to fulfill our role here 😄


Members can't put mods on ignore, either (or so I've heard).


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## jonty30

spicynug said:


> It's all situational, for me. The ideal solution would be for both to go, even if it means that she much of the time on the beach or shopping if the MIL was just wanting her children and husband.


I definitely am not going on a trip I know I’m not wanted on that’s a pretty unfair way for me to use my vacation time
[/QUOTE]
What I mean by that is that, since we don't know the reason why the MIL only wants her kids there (or so she says), something like that is allowable in my mind if you are still welcome on the trip itself. There could be a good reason why she only wants her family, we don't know. It's not so much that she just wants private time with her family that bothers me, but the fact that you weren't welcome on the trip at all, even if it meant doing your thing during the day and spending your evenings with your husband. 

If I were in your shoes, I'd be ok with that situation. It would be the total unwelcomeness on the trip that would bother me.


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## Blondilocks

In Absentia said:


> Doing that, you lose the flow of the thread. I've put them on Ignore in my head  and I won't comment unless there are more personal attacks.


I apologize for bringing up your personal situation. Sometimes, it seems a member doesn't take their own situation into consideration and realize that it may be influencing their position on a subject.


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## lifeistooshort

Blondilocks said:


> Members can't put mods on ignore, either (or so I've heard).


But who would want to ignore our wisdom?

😅😅😅


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## In Absentia

Blondilocks said:


> I apologize for bringing up your personal situation. Sometimes, it seems a member doesn't take their own situation into consideration and realize that it may be influencing their position on a subject.


Apologies accepted. But I would never bring a poster's personal circumstances in a thread. My marriage failed because of my wife's mental issues. Therefore it wasn't her fault. Because of the mental issues, she wasn't communicating with me and it went wrong. It's nobody's fault. All the "strange" behaviours were due to this and I've been complaining because it seemed she was doing it on purpose. I stayed because nothing made sense and because of the children. It was too scary to leave in that situation. I agree that often I'm too tolerant or see things slightly differently or that I have a boundary problem, co-dependency etc. It's all true, but I try not to be influenced by my issues when I post. End of the TJ and I hope everything is clear...


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## Cindywife

How did Thanksgiving go?


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## Anastasia6

@spicynug was Thanksgiving a good day? Did anyone bring up the trip? Did some good communication happen?


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## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> @spicynug was Thanksgiving a good day? Did anyone bring up the trip? Did some good communication happen?


It was pretty hectic with the 4 small kids so it didn’t come up at all, I didn’t get any weird vibes or cold shoulder at least


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## Cynthia

spicynug said:


> It was pretty hectic with the 4 small kids so it didn’t come up at all, I didn’t get any weird vibes or cold shoulder at least


Excellent. Perhaps you have gained some respect from his family. 
You have done a good job of perseverance through a difficult situation. This situation was a game changer. Your husband now knows that he can only push you so far before he hits a wall. Hopefully this will help him to treat you better.


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## lifeistooshort

Cynthia said:


> Excellent. Perhaps you have gained some respect from his family.
> You have done a good job of perseverance through a difficult situation. This situation was a game changer. Your husband now knows that he can only push you so far before he hits a wall. Hopefully this will help him to treat you better.


I agree. By setting hard boundaries now you have set the stage for a much smoother marriage. Nip unacceptable behavior in the bud early and everyone benefits. That includes your husband and in laws who will not have to endure strained relations down the road.


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## frusdil

spicynug said:


> My husband told me tonight that he’s not going to Hawaii, that he doesn’t want to further damage our relationship and that he knows by agreeing to go he wasn’t thinking about me that he was just being selfish.


Wonderful update! Good for you for holding to your boundaries OP. You've set the stage for a much smoother, happier marriage going forward x



spicynug said:


> He’s not he says it’s his choice not to go that it’s not on me and I asked if he’d resent me when everyone else goes and he doesn’t and he says no he won’t that he realizes he wouldn’t want to be there without me. He said he is going focus on us being each other’s first priority. *But I need to work on going to more family stuff instead of avoiding it all*.


That's fair, marriage is give and take.



lifeistooshort said:


> This may have been addressed but it is VITALLY important that he own this with his parents and not throw you under the bus by telling them YOU were upset. If he does that you're going to be relegated to the bad guy role.
> 
> He has to tell them that he thought about it and realized that it wasn't fair, as a husband, to cancel a birthday trip with his wife for a solo trip with his family.


YEP!!!



spicynug said:


> Yeah, over the phone. He said he’d decided not to go because he didn’t really want to experience a trip like that without his wife and that he didn’t feel right about me being uninvited. That we were going to go on a trip together instead. They didn’t really say much other than oh ok


Fabulous - perfect.

I'm really glad to see this @spicynug , very happy for you and hubby honey, well done x


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## spicynug

Thanks everyone for helping to see me through this!


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## Anastasia6

spicynug said:


> Thanks everyone for helping to see me through this!


So now that your husband has cancelled. Have you two planned an awesome trip together. Are you still going to CrimeCon? How has he been? Have you two had more chance to discuss reasonable boundaries?


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## spicynug

Anastasia6 said:


> So now that your husband has cancelled. Have you two planned an awesome trip together. Are you still going to CrimeCon? How has he been? Have you two had more chance to discuss reasonable boundaries?


We re booked the trip we cancelled and I got my crimecon ticket refunded (I can’t do both and I’d rather go on the original trip). Things have been great we’ve communicated a lot and it’s just going to take some time to build up trust as in trust that he’d have my back in future etc but things have improved


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## BigDaddyNY

spicynug said:


> We re booked the trip we cancelled and I got my crimecon ticket refunded (I can’t do both and I’d rather go on the original trip). Things have been great we’ve communicated a lot and it’s just going to take some time to build up trust as in trust that he’d have my back in future etc but things have improved


That is awesome to hear. So many stories here go the wrong way. It is nice to see a positive outcome. Very happy you and your husband were able to figure this out. It is a good sign for the future IMO.


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## Galabar01

spicynug said:


> We re booked the trip we cancelled and I got my crimecon ticket refunded (I can’t do both and I’d rather go on the original trip). Things have been great we’ve communicated a lot and it’s just going to take some time to build up trust as in trust that he’d have my back in future etc but things have improved


Remember, things go both ways. What are you doing to show that you have his back?


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## Rus47

spicynug said:


> Things have been great we’ve communicated a lot


He had a near death experience, thankfully eventually realized damage done and reconsidered. The communication improvement and continuation will go a long way toward avoiding future problems. Hopefully he understands how to respond to future tests.


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## Blondilocks

Galabar01 said:


> Remember, things go both ways. What are you doing to show that you have his back?


She went to Thanksgiving at his family's home. What more is she supposed to do?


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## FarmTownGirl

Diana7 said:


> Have his sisters said anything?
> If he refuses not to go, I would book myself for a really nice holiday. With family members or a friend if you prefer.


Exactly. If he thinks it's "Normal" to not only go off to Hawaii with "family only" for 10 days, but to have to cancel vacation with your spouse because of it, I would pick something I really truly wanted to do with someone I really enjoyed, and go do it without him. He sounds like a jerk, but maybe he just doesn't have the ability to put himself in someone else's shoes and the only way he can know what it feels like is to have the experience for himself.


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