# My Wife, my mother, my daughter....what to do?



## RGG1957

I am hoping to get some insight into my situation. My wife and I are currently seperated and I've filed for a divorce. My two main issues are my wife's temper and the fact she does not want any of my family over our house because she feels they have been horrible to her thoughout our marriage of six years. I'm not sure what to do. My wife and I have started talking again after almost 3 months of no contact. She says she knows she has a bad temper and she wants to learn to control it because she doesn't want to be seen as a mean and ugly person. This is the first time I've heard her say she wants to fix it for her, not for me and that's good. But she does not know if she can accept my family after all she has been through with them. 

When she first met my mother she did not make a good impression. Kept her face in a magazine most of the whole visit. My mother is the type that believes when a potential daughter n law first visits she should jump right in with the house chores, cook supper, etc and my girlfriend (future wife, future exwife) did not do that. As soon as I got home my mother called me and said run from that woman, she's not right for you. And this theme has continued from her throughout our marriage, although she's never said anything directly to my wife. My wife senses her dislike for her. Each time we've split up (4 times in 10 years, although usually for only a week or so) my mother has started in on me about what a horrible b1tch she is and god will punish her for what she's done to me. God is my mother's personal avenger.

My daughter has hated my wife from the first day. I've tried to figure out why, even asking her what has always been her issue with my wife. I always get "she's not right for you, I don't like the way she treats you". I suspect she viewed my, then girlfriend, as someone that took my time from her. At the time I was babysitting for my daughter 5 nights a week. After I met my future wife I told my daughter I was going to cut back on the babysitting to three times a week so I could have a social life. Then my daughter said "well you won't see your granddaughter then". And I didn't for 3 months. My daughter and my wife have had one verbal cuss fight, my daughter has posted hate spewing messages on facebook, emails, etc.

Now for me I've never taken an issue with either my mother or my daughter in defending my wife and she feels hurt that I've never defended her against my family. I guess I always figured their love for me would outweigh their hatred for each other, but it hasn't worked out like that. 

I've come to realize I can't make these people change their minds. They're all grown and this is the way they are. Only I feel so put in the middle and I'm forced to choose between my family and my wife and I love them all and want them all in my life. 

I have seen my mother turn her disapproval on my brother's wives (he's had 3) convincing him they were all no good and he could do better. Currently he's 53 years old, divorced and living with my mother. I watched my sister keep my dad from having any serious relationship with a woman after he and my mother divorced. She always said, "he doesn't need anyone, I can take care of him". My dad died without ever having a romantic relationship again. 

I just don't want to end up like this. Any insight is appreciated.


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## TikiKeen

It looks as though you're surrounded by women who manipulate to communicate and to get what they want.

Have you ever stood up for your wife to your mom consistently? That made a huge difference for me in my marriage. You married your wife, not your mother. Mom absolutely needs to know her place, and that place is "Not the one who decides how your wife is treated" (or "punished", for that matter, although the idea of God wearing an Avenger's costume is funny. Sorry, cosplay sneaks in when I least expect it.) My own MIL cannot share well, although she has serious histrionic issues to begin with. I walked into my marriage knowing she was certifiably crazy.

As for your daughter...that's just snotty. "I didn't get my way so you get nothing!" isn't a workable solution. I hope other posters have ideas for that.


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## Maricha75

Ok, let's see here....

Mom and dad divorced.
Sister kept dad from having romantic relationships.
Brother marries...3 times...mom disapproves of the wives, he divorces each of them.
OP, what happened to your daughter's mom? How did your mom act toward her?

I'll be honest, here. It seems that, in the eyes of your mom (and maybe your daughter, too?), there is no one good enough for you. So, because she didn't jump in when she first met your mom, she wasn't worthy.... and it went downhill from there. Your daughter, I suspect, is greatly influenced by grandma? Let me put it this way: If the matriarch doesn't like someone, no one is "allowed" to like them. And, honestly, if there was that much animosity between them, I don't understand why you would think their love for YOU would change how they felt about EACH OTHER?

ETA: In case it wasn't apparent, I suspect your mom plays a HUGE role in this whole thing. You might want to look a bit closer at that aspect.


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## Pamvhv

I wouldn't want my MiL around if she acted like that either. You're going to end up like your brother.


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## RGG1957

I agree with all the comments. Although I don't believe my wife handled this well either by lashing out at me and somehow finding a way to tie any argument back to my family. Also her not wanting any of my family at our house, even the grandchildren, is a bit much. Has anyone ever put their mom in her place? I grew up in a time when children, even grown ones, did not talk back to their parents. 
Also, and I don't mean to offend anyone, is the ability to hate long and hard an ability most women have? I have seen two guys get into an argument in a bar, step outside to take up the issue man to man, and then be back in the bar bloody and bruised and drinking together. Seriously I have never known any man to carry a long-time grudge against another man. Just wondering.


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## lifeistooshort

Hmm, so your two main issues are both on your wife, not that your family is nasty to her and that you allow it. Keep blameshifting and making excuses as to why your wife is really at fault here and I can guarantee you'll end up like your brother. No decent woman is going to put up with your nasty mother and daughter. You only hurt yourself by making excuses.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman

I take yet another viewpoint. You grew up around controlling women, you created a controlling woman and you married at least one, if not more, controlling women.

I think your wife set the tone by ignoring her potential MIL by reading a magazine instead of socializing and pitching in like a normal person. Now, according to your mother, she might not have been good enough anyway. But what I see is you are letting everyone else tell you how you should feel. 

I suggest you let this wife go, distance yourself from all of the women in your family, get into some counseling and find out why you aren't a real man. What are you afraid of? Losing Mom's love? If her love is conditional then there are even more issues at play. You need to learn to stand up to her and tell her that it's your life and she WILL be polite to the women you bring over or she won't be seeing you. Period. Set some boundaries! 

And to a wife who whines "she doesn't like me" - well how about be a real person and talk and get to know the MIL and bond? Use some social graces. So many wrongs there may never be a right in this situation. And to daughter? She needs to respect your choices - you're a grown man and her father and you appreciate her concern and she'll always be your daughter but she can't expect you to be alone because that's selfish. And these are all ADULTS? Grow the F up.

I don't mean this in a mean or condescending way - I see how everyone has contributed to the hatefulness and you just stand there in the middle doing nothing out of fear and wanting to make them all happy. Definition of codependent.


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## DoF

RGG1957 said:


> When she first met my mother she did not make a good impression. Kept her face in a magazine most of the whole visit. My mother is the type that believes when a potential daughter n law first visits she should jump right in with the house chores, cook supper, etc and my girlfriend (future wife, future exwife) did not do that. As soon as I got home my mother called me and said run from that woman, she's not right for you. And this theme has continued from her throughout our marriage, although she's never said anything directly to my wife. My wife senses her dislike for her. Each time we've split up (4 times in 10 years, although usually for only a week or so) my mother has started in on me about what a horrible b1tch she is and god will punish her for what she's done to me. God is my mother's personal avenger.


You should've told your mom that her expectations are rather extreme and unrealistic.

Cook the first day? She can't be serious. That's just ridicules. Come on now.

You should've told her that....



RGG1957 said:


> My daughter has hated my wife from the first day. I've tried to figure out why, even asking her what has always been her issue with my wife. I always get "she's not right for you, I don't like the way she treats you". I suspect she viewed my, then girlfriend, as someone that took my time from her. At the time I was babysitting for my daughter 5 nights a week. After I met my future wife I told my daughter I was going to cut back on the babysitting to three times a week so I could have a social life. Then my daughter said "well you won't see your granddaughter then". And I didn't for 3 months. My daughter and my wife have had one verbal cuss fight, my daughter has posted hate spewing messages on facebook, emails, etc.


That's manipulative and an ultimatum. Not cool and completely direspectful towards her father.

How did you deal with that?



RGG1957 said:


> Now for me I've never taken an issue with either my mother or my daughter in defending my wife and she feels hurt that I've never defended her against my family. I guess I always figured their love for me would outweigh their hatred for each other, but it hasn't worked out like that.


There is your problem and you should probably start apologizing to your wife about this.

What is your priority when it comes to relationships in your life. Right now, it sounds like you are:
- Son first
- father second
- husband third

Last one needs to move into 1st place. You should BY ALL MEANS defend your wife and stand by her when other people are wrong. NOW, if your wife is wrong, that's one thing...and if her "nastiness" is the cause of your mom's/daughter's feelings than you should've addressed that with your wife when it came up!!!

Perhaps, you ignored the way she was......and your family thought you were crazy for doing so.....took it out on you in other ways (which is not right either, but still)




RGG1957 said:


> I've come to realize I can't make these people change their minds. They're all grown and this is the way they are. Only I feel so put in the middle and I'm forced to choose between my family and my wife and I love them all and want them all in my life.
> 
> I have seen my mother turn her disapproval on my brother's wives (he's had 3) convincing him they were all no good and he could do better. Currently he's 53 years old, divorced and living with my mother. I watched my sister keep my dad from having any serious relationship with a woman after he and my mother divorced. She always said, "he doesn't need anyone, I can take care of him". My dad died without ever having a romantic relationship again.
> 
> I just don't want to end up like this. Any insight is appreciated.


First and foremost, I would sit down with your mother and daughter (separately) and set some boundaries. Tell them that you are an adult and can pick and choose who you want to be with.

If they have a problem with the person, they are free to come and talk to you about it. But ALL of the manipulative and ultimatum kind of behavior has to stop and will not be tolerated anymore.

Tell them that if they love you, they will accept and love the people that YOU love. If they don't and continue this behavior it will only put distance between you.

I would kind of lay low with your wife on this for now. But at some point, I would def apologize to her for not sticking up for her/standing by her. Again, under assumption that your ex/wife wasn't a complete ass to you, your mother and daughter (no rudeness etc).

If she was, then simply tell your wife that assuming she adjusts and changes her behavior, she will also need to show that to your mother/daughter as well (at some point) and set the stage with them 2 to accept/reward the good behavior rather than HATE HATE HATE.

Last advice, you had MAJOR play in this as well. DO NOT ignore issues as they come up. Deal with them right away (or think about them/take time but address them with a day or 2). Remember, issues are like snowballs going down the hill. Longer they roll, bigger they get....and bigger the crash when they get to the bottom of the hill.

Good luck, hope your marriage and family relations improve ASAP!


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## Maricha75

RGG1957 said:


> I agree with all the comments. Although I don't believe my wife handled this well either by lashing out at me and somehow finding a way to tie any argument back to my family. Also her not wanting any of my family at our house, even the grandchildren, is a bit much. Has anyone ever put their mom in her place? I grew up in a time when children, even grown ones, did not talk back to their parents.


Yes. I stood up to my mom. She tried to keep me from moving with my then-fiance (now husband). I was 24 at the time, and I told her I was moving. And I did. There were times, early on, when she did try to drive a wedge between us, but we stayed united... as it SHOULD be. When you are an adult, and MARRIED, your priority is to be your spouse first, not your parents. It's not about talking back to your parents....and hang on, you said your brother is 53, so I am guessing you are in the same age range as him? My dad is 64, so he grew up around that same time, and he stood up to BOTH his mom and his dad at different times, if they were in the wrong.




RGG1957 said:


> Also, and I don't mean to offend anyone, is the ability to hate long and hard an ability most women have? I have seen two guys get into an argument in a bar, step outside to take up the issue man to man, and then be back in the bar bloody and bruised and drinking together. Seriously I have never known any man to carry a long-time grudge against another man. Just wondering.


Yes, I have seen men hold long grudges. It's not a female specific trait. :rofl: I've even seen some women who just let it go after a big fight.


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## Maricha75

EnjoliWoman said:


> I take yet another viewpoint. You grew up around controlling women, you created a controlling woman and you married at least one, if not more, controlling women.


Or, perhaps the wife's controlling side came about when mom started her manipulations. It's possible she was that way all along. But it's equally possible that it was in reaction to MIL's attitude. I would have developed that attitude, too!



EnjoliWoman said:


> I think your wife set the tone by ignoring her potential MIL by reading a magazine instead of socializing and pitching in like a normal person. Now, according to your mother, she might not have been good enough anyway. But what I see is you are letting everyone else tell you how you should feel.


Really? Who in their right mind EXPECTS that someone they just met is going to start cooking the meal at someone else's house??? Who EXPECTS that someone is just going to "pitch in" at that first meeting? While the magazine thing is annoying, EXPECTING a guest to help out is ridiculous.


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## Omego

My goodness. I'm going to be blunt.

You're basically letting your mother and your daughter control your life. They seem to be jealous, controlling and manipulative people. You're going to have to demand more respect for yourself.

Do you love your wife or do you want to divorce her? It seems like the problems you two have are created by other people: your mother and your daughter.

I feel for your wife. Deep down, I'm pretty sure that my MIL and my H's daughter would absolutely love for my H and I not to be together, but they would never act this way. Of course, family is possessive of their members (more or less) but when they let their own flaws overcome common sense, well, they're no longer acting like family. They are showing no love for you by coming between you and your wife.

You need to change your behavior. Tell them either they accept your wife and stay out of your business or you won't see them again. I'll bet you they'll back off. They won't call your bluff. 

And yes, your wife must feel horrible. You're her husband and you're supposed to have her back. So what if she read a magazine during the first visit? She probably felt the negative vibe as soon as she walked through the door. Sorry, but I feel that you're handling this the wrong way. 

Best of luck.


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## EnjoliWoman

Maricha75 said:


> Really? Who in their right mind EXPECTS that someone they just met is going to start cooking the meal at someone else's house??? Who EXPECTS that someone is just going to "pitch in" at that first meeting? While the magazine thing is annoying, EXPECTING a guest to help out is ridiculous.


She isn't a guest - she's practically family. I think the word "expect" is not quite right. But from the host's standpoint, if I were to invite my adult child and his significant other, I would, as hostess, offer to get them a drink and I wouldn't want to sequester myself in the kitchen while everyone else socializes - it would be an appropriate gesture after introductions and excusing myself to finish getting the meal ready that the girlfriend/SO say "is there anything I can do to help?" and regardless of the answer, follow me into the kitchen and compliment something (smells great!) and at the very least keep me company and make small talk and help set the table or carry food to the table.

So maybe saying I would "expect" her to come help cook is a bit extreme but I think it's very bad manners to not offer and to sit with your nose in a magazine instead of getting to know them.

People who cannot carry on a conversation and get to know one another have poor social skills IMO. I don't care how unpleasant or hateful that woman was, I would still be able to be pleasant and ask questions and carry on through dinner and I would kill her with kindness. Not in an intentional PA way, but instead with the intent of drawing her out, knowing the animosity is rooted somewhere else besides me since she just met me.

I agree that at some point the son should take Mom aside and say "Hey, I really like this girl and I'm going to ask her to marry me" and when mother pushed back he should have said "it's my decision and you're going to have to accept it - please treat her with the same respect you would any SO or we'll be forced to limit our time here."

That's why I think they are ALL out of line. Every one of them. For the OPs story everyone has contributed to the downfall of the family unit including OP.


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## Omego

EnjoliWoman said:


> I think it's very bad manners to not offer and to sit with your nose in a magazine instead of getting to know them.


I agree 100%, it is. I'm wondering what the welcome was like in the first place in order for the OP's wife to behave that way.... If she was greeted in a cold, snide manner, I can see why she'd bury her face in a magazine. I'll bet there are some details missing.

This being said, another strategy could be for the OPs wife to "kill her with kindness": ignore the snarky behavior and just go along as if nothing had happened, ie. ask "May I help?" or clear the table, or whatever.....

At this stage, however, I don't think the OP should ask that his wife make any more effort, because, as it is, she feels as though her feelings have not been taken into consideration.


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## Maricha75

EnjoliWoman said:


> *She isn't a guest - she's practically family.* I think the word "expect" is not quite right. But from the host's standpoint, if I were to invite my adult child and his significant other, I would, as hostess, offer to get them a drink and I wouldn't want to sequester myself in the kitchen while everyone else socializes - it would be an appropriate gesture after introductions and excusing myself to finish getting the meal ready that the girlfriend/SO say "is there anything I can do to help?" and regardless of the answer, follow me into the kitchen and compliment something (smells great!) and at the very least keep me company and make small talk and help set the table or carry food to the table.
> 
> So maybe saying I would "expect" her to come help cook is a bit extreme but I think it's very bad manners to not offer and to sit with your nose in a magazine instead of getting to know them.
> 
> People who cannot carry on a conversation and get to know one another have poor social skills IMO. I don't care how unpleasant or hateful that woman was, I would still be able to be pleasant and ask questions and carry on through dinner and I would kill her with kindness. Not in an intentional PA way, but instead with the intent of drawing her out, knowing the animosity is rooted somewhere else besides me since she just met me.
> 
> I agree that at some point the son should take Mom aside and say "Hey, I really like this girl and I'm going to ask her to marry me" and when mother pushed back he should have said "it's my decision and you're going to have to accept it - please treat her with the same respect you would any SO or we'll be forced to limit our time here."
> 
> That's why I think they are ALL out of line. Every one of them. For the OPs story everyone has contributed to the downfall of the family unit including OP.


EW, the majority of what you wrote, I actually agree with....except the part in bold. As OP stated below, it was the first time she met his mom. Sorry, but where I come from, that doesn't make you practically family. It makes you a guest in their home. As such, you don't just jump in automatically, as the OP's mother expected. And that may well be where things spiraled down. Maybe she felt that disapproving vibe from the MIL and figured there was no point in trying to impress her because she could sense that her mind was already made up. I'm not excusing her actions, as far as keeping her nose in the magazine. But I'm not condemning her for not jumping in.

Actually, RGG, did you inform your then-girlfriend of your mothers expectations BEFORE the visit? Because, if you did not, then you DID set her up in a lose-lose situation.



RGG1957 said:


> *When she first met my mother she did not make a good impression.* Kept her face in a magazine most of the whole visit. My mother is the type that believes when a potential daughter n law first visits she should jump right in with the house chores, cook supper, etc and my girlfriend (future wife, future exwife) did not do that. As soon as I got home my mother called me and said run from that woman, she's not right for you. And this theme has continued from her throughout our marriage, although she's never said anything directly to my wife. My wife senses her dislike for her. Each time we've split up (4 times in 10 years, although usually for only a week or so) my mother has started in on me about what a horrible b1tch she is and god will punish her for what she's done to me. God is my mother's personal avenger.


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## turnera

EnjoliWoman said:


> I take yet another viewpoint. You grew up around controlling women, you created a controlling woman and you married at least one, if not more, controlling women.


This is what I was going to say.

Go get the book No More Mr. Nice Guy and read it. After that, go get the book Married Man Sex Life Primer and read that. 

Then report back and tell us what you figured out about your problem.


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## turnera

Maricha75 said:


> Really? Who in their right mind EXPECTS that someone they just met is going to start cooking the meal at someone else's house???


Who expects a guest to come to your house and sit down and read a magazine? THAT is rude. Granted, she was probably insecure and it was her defense mechanism but it was still rude. I didn't read that the mom said, as soon as the woman came into her house, "Here, take a broom and start cleaning up." The mom probably was in the kitchen cooking and the girlfriend probably went to the couch and sat down and started hiding.


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## EnjoliWoman

Maricha75 said:


> EW, the majority of what you wrote, I actually agree with....except the part in bold. As OP stated below, it was the first time she met his mom. Sorry, but where I come from, that doesn't make you practically family. It makes you a guest in their home. As such, you don't just jump in automatically, as the OP's mother expected. And that may well be where things spiraled down. Maybe she felt that disapproving vibe from the MIL and figured there was no point in trying to impress her because she could sense that her mind was already made up. I'm not excusing her actions, as far as keeping her nose in the magazine. But I'm not condemning her for not jumping in.
> 
> Actually, RGG, did you inform your then-girlfriend of your mothers expectations BEFORE the visit? Because, if you did not, then you DID set her up in a lose-lose situation.


I see your point - I'm not trying to split hairs. As I said, it shouldn't be expected so much as offered. Personally, when I met my ex's family, I jumped right in. It might not be my family but if I had any feeling that some day they might be, I would want to ingratiate myself. 

On the other hand if the mother is just a domineering woman who immediately made her feel ill at ease, that is the mother's fault. Either way I think OP is in the middle and trying to not hurt anyone's feelings and in the end put aside his wife's feelings when he should have had a discussion with Mom immediately and made it clear he likes this woman and be nice.


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## EnjoliWoman

PS - Maybe it's time to tell your mother that God will punish her for interfering in your relationships, not giving them a chance and running off perfectly nice woman.


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## Blossom Leigh

Yep, stood up to my mother... being complicit in poor behavior of theirs by not standing up is NOT honoring your mother. Calling someone on poor behavior IS honoring them.

Boundaries...

Mother's expectations of total household engagement on the first day... totally unrealistic and you absolutely can her that and to back off. As a matter of fact I would not allow her to give vague answers. I would demand details behind her "she's not good enough for you" BS. "Until you can provide details, I do not accept your opinion." Then as she gives details you can devide the details into two camps "unreasonable perspective" and "reasonable perspective"... In the unreasonable camp, tell your Mother to get over herself and why, the reasonable one's can be address with love to your wife. 

Wife... rude to stick her nose in a magazine... so she cannot play total victim here, but she does need to know she has your back as she IS priority number one over all these other relationships. 

Sister... is skirting on some serious issues and you need to watch her close.

Daughter.. brat move and punished you for having a life. I would have called her saying "I didn't raise you to be a cruel woman and I expect you to treat me better than using your child as a weapon against me."


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## RGG1957

Thanks everyone for their input. I'm sorry I haven't answered particular remarks and suggestion I've seen, but I'm not real tech savy on how to use this site. I really didn't set my g/f up to know what to expect from mom because I really did not know what to expect myself. My previous marriage lasted 28 years before we divorced due to my 1st wife's alcoholism which she refused to try and fix with herself. After the divorce she went from alcohol to heroine, which is what she is today, a heroine addict. I guess this was another reason she always felt she was in last place with me. I carried a lot of guilt over my 1st wife for a long time, even after I was married, I would go get her out from under whatever bridge she was living under, put her in rehab and try to get her back on her feet. Only to see her go back to drugs. My current wife saw me do more for my ex than for her and it always bothered her. I guess I just didn't know how much.

I've tried to think back on that first meeting between my mother and my wife and being 10 years ago some details are blurry. I believe my mother already had her mind made up before we even got there. So it was an exercise in failure.

Right now my wife is telling me that she in no way wants anything to do with my family and if we come back together it is under the same circumstances. My family is not allowed at our house, including the grandkids. I can go see them all I want, at their houses but they are not allowed to ours. I'm not sure I can live under this rule.


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## EnjoliWoman

Hm. That's a bit harsh. It's one thing to expect you to stand up to your family to defend her. It's another to ban them all and expect you to be OK.

Can you talk with each one (mother, daughter, wife) and have them each try again and start with a clean slate? I like the idea of asking for details as to WHY they didn't like her and thought she was wrong for you.

Honestly I think it may be too late. I think if you meet someone special again that you can set expectations very early on with ALL of them.


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## Omego

RGG1957 said:


> Right now my wife is telling me that she in no way wants anything to do with my family and if we come back together it is under the same circumstances. My family is not allowed at our house, including the grandkids. I can go see them all I want, at their houses but they are not allowed to ours. I'm not sure I can live under this rule.


I don't know RGG, but this seems like a reasonable request given how awfully they have treated her. Maybe it would even be better that way? You get to see them all you want, and your wife won't have to deal with them. Sometimes you just have to accept that people will not like each other or get along. Why be in an uncomfortable situation?

You said that you babysat your granddaughter 5 nights a week. That's very kind, but isn't that a lot, given that you'd like to have a personal life? Could you not tell your mother and daughter that you'll be over to see them ___ (insert frequency of your choice) and that you expect to be treated with respect (especially from your daughter) when you take the time to visit?

Any derogatory remarks about your wife should be forbidden. Warn them ahead of time. And by the same token, once you and your wife agree on how much time you'll be spending away from her at their places, she shouldn't rehash the past and make remarks about them either.

This is just my opinion based on the assumption that you seem to still love your wife (and vice-versa) and that both of you are considering cancelling your plans to divorce.


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## Blossom Leigh

hmmm... It may be necessary "for now" but I don't see that as sustainable. I think the ONLY thing that would make her change her stance is if you protected her consistently enough she would eventually feel that she is not alone in the fight and if they are allowed to your house it would be because she has grown a trust in you to protect her appropriately.

She is basically saying "I have to protect myself because I can't trust you to do it."

the only way to change that... is to learn how to do it, put it into practice consistently and until then... accept her self protection.

But know... that can't last forever... it has to be addressed.

YOU have to create the environment by which the right boundaries are in place and everyone knows you won't tolerate abuse of your wife in your home.


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## TikiKeen

OP, Thank you for clarifying. Have you ever gone to Al-Anon? That might really help you see more into why you continue to do for these women what they should do for themselves (get help). (Seen with your helping the ex and not confronting your mom) It also will help you make decisions better without first thinking "how can I not rock the boat?" That thinking has rocked your boat so much that you're separated now.

My MIL is not allowed in my house without mutual agreement between me and my H, mainly because she's verbally abusive and I refuse to associate with people who treat me like crap. Yesterday she sent relatives to my house for the afternoon without contacting me first. 

Last night, I told H that I'll no longer allow any relatives in whom I didn't invite, because he still won't stand up to his mom, who very intentionally (and passive aggressively) puts her own son in the middle. I feel sorry for him, and, for you. I see a similarity: you're doing what you've always done, expecting different results (peace and a happy marriage), yet you're not willing to take the risk of saying "no" and dealing with the shame bomb your mom will throw. I get it, I do. I've also seen that over the years, as he's in counseling and applying Al Anon principles, my H sees how truly sick and enmeshed his mom is. She acts like a child to avoid responsibility, forcing H to kind of live her life for her. it's as if she gets others angry so she doesn't have to be the adult or feel uncomfortable feelings. Does any of that maybe ring a bell with you? If you only do what you know and don't reach out to learn different ways of living, nothing will change. You do what you did, you get what you got.


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## Blossom Leigh

I know that is crushing about your ex... so sad!


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## Omego

Blossom Leigh said:


> She is basically saying "I have to protect myself because I can't trust you to do it."


:iagree: This hits the nail on the head.


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## turnera

RGG1957 said:


> they are not allowed to ours. I'm not sure I can live under this rule.


I wouldn't. Not for a person who has social issues, anger issues, and believes she has the right to make ultimatums.

Then again, your family sounds cuckoo. And entitled. And mean.

I'd just move away and start over somewhere else.


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## Maricha75

I'm with Omego on this. I wouldn't abide having anyone in my home if they had a problem with my husband, and vice versa....even family. That's not to say that they could NEVER get along, but until that DOES happen, I don't think it's unreasonable to request that they not come to the house. It doesn't necessarily mean "forever", and you can put that in the stipulations as well: This request will be honored, with the understanding that the issue may be revisited periodically, should mom/daughter/sister/wife attitude toward each other change at any time. And IF you two get back together, mom/daughter/sister (if she is ever in the mix on this) need to keep out of your marriage. Think about it. If you were to confide about some issue, how likely would mom be to say "I always knew there was something wrong with her!" or "I never liked her!" to you?

At any rate, you CANNOT expect that their love for you will will make them like each other. That won't happen. And, EW may be right as well. It MAY be too late with your current wife. If it is, just keep all of these things in mind, should you get involved with another woman at some point. Don't let them control you!


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## turnera

Honestly, dude, you don't need to be with ANY woman until you get your Nice Guy under control. Go get that book.


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## Hicks

Your mother disrespected your wife. Your wife disrespected your mother. You have to pick sides.


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## Omego

Hicks said:


> Your mother disrespected your wife. Your wife disrespected your mother. You have to pick sides.



Yes, exactly. Hope he picks the right side.


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## RGG1957

The wife, or STBXW, I don't know anymore, have been spending a lot of time together. Actually I stayed at the house from last Tuesday until last night when I returned to my apartment. We appear to be getting along fine since we're communicating more. We've had a few skirmishes like the night we went out with friends and one of them took our picture and put it on FB and tagged me. My daughter n law quickly posted, "Really, really, you're divorcing the witch and she's going to take half of everything you own and put you in the street. How can you go out with her?? Again this is the kind of crap that has lead to most of our problems and all from my family. I responded back for her to mind her own business, but I really don't like to argue on FB for the whole world to see. I've since removed most of my family from my friends list for this kind of thing.

Anyway we got over that and have been doing well. The only problem is we have a court date for our divorce on July 9th and I'd like to request a postponement for 90 days to see if we can continue to improve as a couple or decide too much has passed. But since she has counter sued for a divorce we would both have to agree to the postponment and she says she won't. She says I started this and we need to see it through. 

However when we're together everything seems fine. We talk, we laugh, we go out for dinner and drinks. Come back to the house have an amore session and go to sleep in each others arms. The next morning over breakfast she reminds me "oh by the way, we're still getting a divorce". 

I've told her OK I get it, why do you keep threatening me with this? She said, we're better friends than husband and wife and so I think we would do better to get the divorce and stay friends. I asked her what type of friends, you mean exclusive? Because I can't come over to a house I used to own and no longer do. I told her I'd give up my portion of the house if she leaves my retirement alone. We've agreed on this.

She said I'm not sure. I said well we'll have to be seperated for a long time, because I do not want to go somewhere and see you out with someone else. It will take me a little time to work up to that. She replied I can never see you with anyone else. I could never accept that.

So WTF?? Even though I'd rather work on our marriage than get the divorce, I'm not going to divorce her and then put my life on hold for her. I've told her this much, but she seems to think we're going to get a divorce and everything will be fine between us. At least that's all I can gather.


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## Blossom Leigh

Its heartbreaking that your mother is getting what she wants...


What made you to initiate divorce?


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## frusdil

If that's the way your DIL, mother and other family members truly treat your wife, it's no wonder she doesn't want them in her home.

You really need to rethink that...this isn't a case of an unreasonable, controlling person throwing their weight around. These people treat her like garbage! I wouldn't allow 'em in my house either!


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## soccermom2three

Wow, you babysat for 5 days a week and when you told your daughter you could only do 3 days a week, (which is still a lot), you didn't see your grandchild for 3 months! Your daughter is super selfish and controlling.


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## Bobby5000

You wrote, "I'd like to request a postponement for 90 days to see if we can continue to improve as a couple or decide too much has passed. But since she has counter sued for a divorce we would both have to agree to the postponment and she says she won't. She says I started this and we need to see it through. " Perhaps she is saying the following. 

If you want to stay married, dismiss the claim, tell me you love me and you are committed to this relationship. Otherwise, but let's end the marriage and perhaps we can remain friends,


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## RGG1957

Well we had lunch today, which got emotional a couple of times, and are planning on getting together tonight after work. At lunch she told me she won't stop the divorce because she still believes I'll always choose my family over her. To tell the truth I'm worn out. I tell her there's no time machine that I can hop in to go back and do things different. We can only move forward and try not to make the same mistakes. Me not supporting her and always living with one foot out the door, and her really working on controlling her anger. But this doesn't seem to make any impression on her. 
Actually with only three weeks to go before the divorce, I think maybe it's time to back out of the picture and seriously start working on what my life will be like without her. As much as it pains me to say this, I don't see any alternative.


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## turnera

You never know. She may see the changes in you and give you another chance down the road.


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## Blossom Leigh

RGG1957 said:


> Well we had lunch today, which got emotional a couple of times, and are planning on getting together tonight after work. At lunch she told me she won't stop the divorce because she still believes I'll always choose my family over her. To tell the truth I'm worn out. I tell her there's no time machine that I can hop in to go back and do things different. We can only move forward and try not to make the same mistakes. Me not supporting her and always living with one foot out the door, and her really working on controlling her anger. But this doesn't seem to make any impression on her.
> Actually with only three weeks to go before the divorce, I think maybe it's time to back out of the picture and seriously start working on what my life will be like without her. As much as it pains me to say this, I don't see any alternative.


Personally, you are giving in to your mother and at some point the pain of the regret of choosing not to protect your wife will hit you. Its not about your wifes anger its about you laying down allowing her to get waylaid. Why wouldnt she be mad?


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## soccermom2three

Well, you can divorce but keep seeing each other. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. 

To be honest, if I was being treated badly by my husband's family and he didn't support me, I probably would have anger issues too.


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## Happyfamily

What does it mean to choose your family over her. That's figurative without specific details on what not choosing your family over her means.

So what does she specifically want you to do?

And why couldn't your mother just ask her to help when she came to visit if that's such a big deal? People can't read minds.


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## RGG1957

Well we're two weeks away from the divorce date and no real changes on the horizon. I spent all last weekend with her, actually did some much needed repair on the house, then returned to my apartment last Monday. She says she is still going forward with the divorce. Honestly I'm starting to feel a bit used. I just felt this was a pennance I had to pay, but now I think back and I was not a bad husband. Yes we had the issue with my family, but some of that stuff goes back ten years. Hard to keep dwelling on that. I really don't know why my family disliked her so much. A lot of what I've posted here has been speculation because often my mom and kids have not been very revealing with what it is about her they don't like. It's hard to make sense when I ask Mom why she never like the wife and she replies "Because she's the devil, she'll pay for what she's done!!" WTF does that mean. 

But I have to face reality, this divorce is going to happen and I need to start putting together what my life will be like after the divorce. She says she wants to remain friends, but I'm not sure I want to do this. I don't want to be the last resort when there's nothing else better to do. I've seen this in other relationships. I know I'm rambling here so I'll stop. Thanks for all the great inputs.


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## turnera

If I had to bet, your wife has someone else on the horizon. Women don't leave men THIS soon, unless they have something 'better' to go TO.

Have you checked her phone records?


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## soccermom2three

> I really don't know why my family disliked her so much. A lot of what I've posted here has been speculation because often my mom and kids have not been very revealing with what it is about her they don't like. It's hard to make sense when I ask Mom why she never like the wife and she replies "Because she's the devil, she'll pay for what she's done!!" WTF does that mean.


From what you've posted about your family, it's clear that they are not going to like ANY woman that you're with. They didn't like your wife just because she was your wife. They sound extremely selfish.

You ask what your mom means by her comment? It means your mom is not normal. I'm sure your daughter and mother are dancing a jig right now because you're alone and now have a bunch of time on your hands to babysit.


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## Blossom Leigh

You will need to develop the skills of saying to your Mother that unless she can provide details, you will no longer listen to vague complaints. Develop boundaries with your Mother or your married life no matter who it is will be rough.

I just think your wife got her belly full... I'm not sure there is someone else.


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## RGG1957

I've thought myself she might be seeing someone else, but now I don't think so. We've just spent too much time together and although she seems generally upset we're getting divorced she's still going through all the motions with her lawyer to complete the divorce. Now she has it in her head that I've had a fling over some stupid text message I had with a mutual female friend of ours. In the text I asked the woman if she wanted to hook up for a drink and she agreed. Then I told her that no I was too tired and going to my room. We were both in another city for a marathon, although with different groups. I did see her with other friends the next day, but this woman and I have never, ever had any type of physical contact. I won't even say I have an emotional conection with her. My wife and I have both known her for 6 or more years and there's never been nothing. My wife just knows this woman is kind of loose, (too be kind) and thinks she would be an easy target for me. For me I was just asking a friend to go for a drink, which I later decided not to do, mainly because I had to run a marathon the next day. Anyway the STBXW will not get off this and says now this is the main reason she's going through with the divorce. Oh God, I think she's just looking for a reason to get divorced and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

Now I've been trying to look at the positive side of this. Starting off will be akward because I've left her all the furniture and she will get the house, I'm not going to fight for that. But I will save my retirement because we have not been married long enough for her to get any of it. We don't have any children between us so there's no child support. I make more money than her so I should be in good shape there. I've kept myself in shape and, at least I've been told, am not a bad looking guy, so hopefully I can meet and date other women. There will not be the issue of my grandkids being barred from my home so I'lll be able to see them more often. I guess on the downside I don't know where I'll live. It's hard to believe that at 57 I'll have to start all over again finding a home, buying furniture, etc. But life does go on.


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## turnera

She's just trying to find a way to PROVE to everyone that she had no choice and it was all your fault. Ignore it.

And I'd be excited to be getting to set up a new place!


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## Blossom Leigh

RGG... How many times have you been married and how long was this marriage?


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## frusdil

I hope you learn from this. Your family sound an awful lot like my inlaws. My husbands ex wife paid a very heavy price for simply being his wife. They are awful people. They don't like me either (and I'm the polar opposite of his ex wife btw) but I don't cop it nearly as badly as the ex wife did.

Before you get involved with another woman you need to establish firm boundaries with your family. Then you need to realise that when you are involved with a woman, and especially when you are married to her, that SHE comes FIRST. Always.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## RGG1957

Thanks everyone for their input. It's now 1 July, just a little over a week to go until D-Day. I still don't like the idea of getting divorce, I am accepting it now. I do hope that within the year I can find a new house I like and get more permanently re-settled. Right now I live in an apartment and I don't really care for it.

This is my second marriage and we've been together 10 years, married for 6. My first marriage lasted 28 years. My first wife became an non-funtioning alcoholic. And after all the rehab and AA meetings she would go back to drinking. Now she has progressed to heroine addict and lives under a bridge in this City. I've even gotten her off the streets and back into rehab, just to have go back to drugs and living on the street. I carried a lot of guilt over her for a long time, but no more I'm done with that. Gosh, talk about unlucky at love. This has all the makings of a good Novella.


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## Blossom Leigh

Your first wife is heartbreaking. So sorry... How was your Mom towards her?


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## RGG1957

My life seems to becoming more and more topsy turvy. With the long holiday weekend coming up I thought I would go visit my sister in Kentucky since I hadn't seen her in quite a while, but after thinking about it I decided not to go because it was so far. Then I was going to visit my brother who only lives about 350 miles away. I have a Harley motorcycle and I'm always looking for an excuse to take a road trip with it. My STBXW suggested I stay in town and we could spend a few days together. I thought this was a good idea because the divorce date is coming up quickly (July 9th) and this could be a good time to work on our relationship. So I agreed.

Friday was great. That evening we went out for dinner, watched the fireworks show and then had a couple of drinks before heading home. 

Saturday we ran a few errands together, did some shopping and then attended a pool party at a friends house and everything was grand. A lot of our mutual friends were there, no one was uncomfortable and we even made a few jokes about the upcoming divorce.

Sunday we went for brunch and during this she said I want to continue with the divorce 100% because of your kids. You will never change because you will always put them before me. I seems she is mad because about two weeks ago my daughter n law asked me to come to their house for supper and I agreed. This made the wife mad because she felt she should have been invited also, even though she would not have attended. I told her the kids know we're seperated and going through a divorce so the didn't think to ask you as well. She didn't agree since we're still married she should have been asked as well. So I told all the kids that if there's an invitation given out, even though we're going through this divorce, she's invited as well as me. But like I said this happened about 2 weeks ago and the wife is still upset by it.

Sunday afternoon we meet up with an old military buddy of mine that had come to town for a few days. We spend a couple of hours catching up and her listening to old "war stories" of ours. At least the ones we were willing to relate. After this she and I went out for dinner then met up with some more friends (some from the pool party) at a local tavern and then headed home about 10:00 PM. 

Up until now everything had been practically picture perfect. Then somewhere on the ride home, only a couple of miles from the house we got into an argument and I honestly don't know what the argument was about, but I know what it turned to.....my kids.

A few days ago my daughter text me and wanted to know if my 17 year old granddaughter could stay the weekend with me. My daughter and her family are going out of town for the weekend and the granddaughter forgot to tell her boss and they scheduled her to work that weekend and she did not want to call in. Since this was going to be the first weekend after my divorce and I didn't want to be alone anyway I said sure I could. The wife found the text on my phone and I guess this pi$$ed her off. 

She started yelling at me you always put them ahead of me, you'll never change. I said how am I putting them ahead of you? She said you call your G-D daughter and tell her to watch her own G-D kid, she's not your responsibility. You need to work on this relationship! You need to work on your wife! I said what do you want me to do, cut them out of my life completely? And she says Yes! They're grown, they don't need to be in your life. And you don't need to be in theirs.

This seems so strange to me since she is so involved with her oldest daughter's college activities and her youngest daughter's cheering program, and goes out of town to visit her parents every 2-3 weeks. 

So all of her rage came back to the surface again after not blowing up like this for a few months. And I'm like WTF?? Is it so bad having my granddaughter at my apartment over the weekend? I even thought we could go have pizza or burgers and have a little get reaquainted time. 

So I finally got the wife home with her raising all kinds of he11 and screaming at me to get away from her house, even though it's still mine. So I did. I haven't heard from her today and really don't expect to until after the divorce. I have to realize that as much as she says I'll never change, she won't either and will always continue to hate my kids and grandkids no matter how much time goes by. What to do???


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## turnera

RGG, I simply CANNOT WAIT until you are free from this lunatic.

She will ALWAYS find SOMEthing wrong with whoever her partner is, so that she can be the victim. Some people are just like that - they have to find blame so that no one ever dares look at THEM.


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## Bobby5000

Your wife's current complaints are crazy. She openly and loudly criticizing your daughter, you are getting divorced and she complains about a lack of an invitation. Is she f-ing crazy. Dad we're having a holiday get together with all the people who don't like me. Invite your soon to be ex-wife, the boss who fired me, my co-worker who lodged a complaint, and that all boyfriend who used to stalk me. 

Get some food from that Greek place where I got sick, spend twice as much as you estimate and send me the bill. I was thinking of having a little game after we had a few drinks where we go around the table and everyone says a few things about why they don't like me and the one who makes the meanest comments wins.


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## Blossom Leigh

is she like your Mom?


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## RGG1957

Well we will be in Divorce Court tomorrow at 9:00 AM. With all the craziness I've been going through the last few weeks and months I should be dancing on air, but I'm not. Actually I'm down in the dumps. What's next for me....I'm not sure.


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## Openminded

Whatever is next for you I sincerely hope it doesn't include your about-to-be-ex-wife. She strongly resents your family and that's never going to change. I think most of us who posted initially said that and it hasn't changed.


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## turnera

What's next is hopefully you picking a healthier partner - down the road, after lots of therapy so you can learn to spot such women and avoid them.


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## Blondilocks

You need to kick all of those nut jobs out of your life. Have never heard of so many control freaks in one family in my life.

Please get some therapy so you can learn to recognize inappropriate behavior and call people on it. And, don't forget to thank God when your divorce is final.


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## RGG1957

OK,
The divorce was final last Tuesday and I'm not certain what has been happening since then. I can't seem to get a read on anything. Actually I'm a fairly "squared away guy". I've just never been through anything like this. Even with my first divorce. We met a court and she was crying. Cried through the whole [email protected]#n thing. I sat there with the pen in my hand ready to sign the papers and I looked at her and said "Can't we put this off 90 days to see if we can work things out". She said no and kept up the sobs. So I signed, she signed...done. As I'm walking back to my vehicle she texts me, where R U? I tell her I'm headed to the garage. She wants to go for coffee and talk.

We meet at a local coffee shop and she's still visibly upset but no longer crying. She tells me "you said all the wrong things. If you had said let's stop this divorce, not just put it off I would have agreed to that". I was so irritated I told her I'm not a blank, blank mind reader. That was always her problem, she always thought I should know what she's thinking and respond properly. Granted when two people have been together for a while they should have a grasp of each others likes and dislikes, but being able to read each others mind? I think not, at least not for me.

We've spoken on the phone several times and met for lunch one time since. And things always start out well, but then she will bring up that she's so hurt because I left her, she feels I abandoned her. She thinks I've chosen my grown kids over her. That I have not made her my top priority. By the end of the phone conversation or our luncheon, it's like she's dripping hatred all over me. I don't even get dragged into the argument, I'm too worn out by it all.

Now move onto my Mother. The day of the divorce I was feeling pretty down, so I called mom. Big, huge mistake on my part. I told her "well now you have two divorce sons" She imeadiately let out with a loud "Phillis Diller" type laugh which just went through me. She then assured this was God's plan and he was going to make her (the ex) pay for what she did to me. She then went on to tell me she was visiting her brother in the hospital and his wife was there and she's never been a good wife for him, she's never been a good partner for him. I finally couldn't take anymore. I told her I don't know they've only been married over 50 years I guess he thought she was a good wife. You haven't like my two wives, you don't like my brother's three wives or any of his girlfriends are there any good wives out there. She told me they're very few and far between. I told her I had to go and haven't called her since.

I don't want to play the victim here. I've made tons of mistakes in this relationship. I included my family in too many problems that she and I had which probably led to alot of my family's resentment towards her. I never took up enough for her. However I did not set boundaries with her whenever she would explode on me and start cussing me and shoving me and throwing all my clothes out the front door for all the world to see. I should have put a stop to that right away. 

I guess I'll have to move any future comments to Life after divorce, nothing really fits here anymore.


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## turnera

RGG, the truth is, you just married a version of your mom. We all do it (well, most of us). We marry a duplicate of the parent who hurt us most, hoping that THIS version will 'get it right' and soothe our wounds and make up for the pain the parent caused.

Five exes between two sons...both of you need to get some serious therapy to undo the damage this woman has done to you so you two can stop picking losers.


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## Openminded

You didn't grovel enough for your now ex-wife the other day and you didn't promise to never see your family again. That's what she was after. 

Look for someone different next time.


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## Blossom Leigh

RGG1957 said:


> OK,
> The divorce was final last Tuesday and I'm not certain what has been happening since then. I can't seem to get a read on anything. Actually I'm a fairly "squared away guy". I've just never been through anything like this. Even with my first divorce. We met a court and she was crying. Cried through the whole [email protected]#n thing. I sat there with the pen in my hand ready to sign the papers and I looked at her and said "Can't we put this off 90 days to see if we can work things out". She said no and kept up the sobs. So I signed, she signed...done. As I'm walking back to my vehicle she texts me, where R U? I tell her I'm headed to the garage. She wants to go for coffee and talk.
> 
> We meet at a local coffee shop and she's still visibly upset but no longer crying. She tells me "you said all the wrong things. If you had said let's stop this divorce, not just put it off I would have agreed to that". I was so irritated I told her I'm not a blank, blank mind reader. That was always her problem, she always thought I should know what she's thinking and respond properly. Granted when two people have been together for a while they should have a grasp of each others likes and dislikes, but being able to read each others mind? I think not, at least not for me.
> 
> We've spoken on the phone several times and met for lunch one time since. And things always start out well, but then she will bring up that she's so hurt because I left her, she feels I abandoned her. She thinks I've chosen my grown kids over her. That I have not made her my top priority. By the end of the phone conversation or our luncheon, it's like she's dripping hatred all over me. I don't even get dragged into the argument, I'm too worn out by it all.
> 
> Now move onto my Mother. The day of the divorce I was feeling pretty down, so I called mom. Big, huge mistake on my part. I told her "well now you have two divorce sons" She imeadiately let out with a loud "Phillis Diller" type laugh which just went through me. She then assured this was God's plan and he was going to make her (the ex) pay for what she did to me. She then went on to tell me she was visiting her brother in the hospital and his wife was there and she's never been a good wife for him, she's never been a good partner for him. I finally couldn't take anymore. I told her I don't know they've only been married over 50 years I guess he thought she was a good wife. You haven't like my two wives, you don't like my brother's three wives or any of his girlfriends are there any good wives out there. She told me they're very few and far between. I told her I had to go and haven't called her since.
> 
> I don't want to play the victim here. I've made tons of mistakes in this relationship. I included my family in too many problems that she and I had which probably led to alot of my family's resentment towards her. I never took up enough for her. However I did not set boundaries with her whenever she would explode on me and start cussing me and shoving me and throwing all my clothes out the front door for all the world to see. I should have put a stop to that right away.
> 
> I guess I'll have to move any future comments to Life after divorce, nothing really fits here anymore.


It is a massive blessing that your Mother's mask came all the way off for you to see. NOW you KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that her perspective of all the women that come into your life are viewed extremely irrationally and she JUSTIFIES her view of them with the Bible which is SICK. Darlin' take the time to heal from this and yes this is a boundary problem all the way around and you listed every single one of them, good for you!!!! This is a pivotal moment in your life and I for one am very happy for you to have gained this level of clarity now. It will serve you well to engage in healthier ways going forward no matter who you are engaging. Do yourself a favor and tap into some books on healthy boundaries when you can. The one's by Townsend are good. Be easy on yourself... the fall out will take time to sort and heal.


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## turnera

Here's a good primer on boundaries
How to Set Boundaries and Be More Assertive


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## Blondilocks

Yeah, your Mom is a piece of work. How does she know what constitutes a good wife? Maybe her thoughts and God's thoughts on the matter differ.


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