# Make all or most of the decisions to become the alpha



## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

How to Be an Alpha Male

"Just by making decisions can be a step on the road to getting the title alpha male."

One easy way to become more alpha-like is to make the decisions. You should not fear whether your choice is the right one or wrong one, just make it. Also, don't hesitate when you make a decision. Sure you can think it through with time, but when giving your decision, do it without hesitation.

What should I cook for dinner? Spaghetti. Which dress is better on me? Wear the red one. Which shoes look nicer? I like the second pair. Am I getting fatter? Yes you need to lose weight. Should the child go to a babysitter or daycare? Daycare. What should we do today? Watch a movie then sex later. Should we go out to the club with our friends? No I'm too lazy, next time. Can I borrow your car to go out? No I'm running low on gas. Should our child go to private school? Yes and you'll help pay for it. Can I buy this purse? No it's too much money. 

While she can give her input and advise, you, being the leader, have the final say. When you decide on everything as much as possible, subconciously she will submit to you being the alpha in your relationship. So when you ask her to do something, she will be be more conducive to following what you have to say. Inevitably, you will get more out of your relationship like this.

"For a man who wants to be a leader for a better reason than partying it will be a long term commitment not just a short term con. It may be to get to the top of the work ladder or to be in a position to attract the right woman to allow himself to settle down and have a family...For some time the term alpha male has been used as a bit of a joke but in reality the ones who really deserve the title are the sort of people most of us will want to be around."


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Methinks the alpha doth protest too much.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Methinks someone is far too obsessed with a term.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Adex perhaps you should focus less on trying to be "Alpha" and work more on being you. You will get a hell of alot more respect by being you.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Adex perhaps you should focus less on trying to be "Alpha" and work more on being you. You will get a hell of alot more respect by being you.


When i was being the nice me to my wife, I received less respect. So no, I don't believe in being the nice guy anymore.

Being a leader can be learned. It's something that I improve on everyday.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Adex said:


> When i was being the nice me to my wife, I received less respect. So no, I don't believe in being the nice guy anymore.
> 
> Being a leader can be learned. It's something that I improve on everyday.


I never suggested you be a "nice guy" I suggest you be you. Part of being a leader is knowing when to be humble as well. No this is not a suggestion that you be a doormat. It means don't be afraid to be sensitive to your wifes needs every now and again. If your constantly trying to control, order, demand, ect that will just stink of insecurity. You will just look like a desperate bully. I've read your posts and frankly it just looks like your trying to hard. It's great to have confidence, be firm in setting and keeping boundaries, ect. Just don't go to far and certainly don't start treating her like crap. 

Someone here made a post about being a leader. I'm not sure if it was RDJ or Deejo and I forgot what section it was in but I do think it would do you good to read it. I'll try to find it and post it for you. It was a great post for people who prefer a man as leader and woman as follower relationship.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

I'd only follow a man who put our marraige first and always had my best interests at heart. 

I'm just not getting that from you Adex. 

If a man is selfish a wife will not want to follow him, eventually she burn out and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Someone here made a post about being a leader. I'm not sure if it was RDJ or Deejo and I forgot what section it was in but I do think it would do you good to read it. I'll try to find it and post it for you. It was a great post for people who prefer a man as leader and woman as follower relationship.


Being an alpha and a leader are interchangeable. If you lead, you're an alpha.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Here, take a look at this Adex. I hope it helps you balance yourself out a bit more. Or at least helps you in some way, shape, or form. 


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/53610-male-leadership.html


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm sure that the shaming helps, and of course the veiled statements hoping that his marriage fails. That's a lot of animosity.

Be himself?

What if 'being himself' is what led to poor outcomes with women in the first place? Should he continue being himself and just go on taking it? Or should he try to make changes that he's happy with, and his partner is happy with?

If folks have a problem with what the guy posts ... then simply don't respond.

If it's inappropriate ... report it.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I'm sure that the shaming helps, and of course the veiled statements hoping that his marriage fails. That's a lot of animosity.
> 
> Be himself?
> 
> ...



If the woman can't accept the man for who he is then imo she doesn't deserve him. Making changes is good sure but there is a difference in changing to better oneself and changing to please someone else. 

I don't agree with some of the things posted by OP and sure some of the things he has stated has rubbed me the wrong way but I do agree that hoping his marriage fails is harsh and uncalled for. I know I've been guilty of being too harsh with some of my posts I'm sure and for that I do apologize OP. 


And Deejo... you know people respond especially to things they don't like. Were all opinionated azzholes like that..


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> When i was being the nice me to my wife, I received less respect. So no, I don't believe in being the nice guy anymore.
> 
> Being a leader can be learned. It's something that I improve on everyday.


I've come to the same reality...The women I've been meeting only respond to jerks..I tried an experiment.. Went to the same bar two weeks in a row.. One, I was my normal self, and the other time I was kinda douchey..

Ten bux for the first person that guess which night I went home with a phone number..


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Gaia said:


> And Deejo... you know people respond especially to things they don't like. Were all opinionated azzholes like that..


54,751 of them to be precise. And we're thankful for them ...

There are plenty of times I either don't like what someone says, or don't like the way they say it ... but I don't wish anyone already in a struggling marriage ill will.

If he thinks what he is doing is making his marriage better, then so be it. If someone thinks they'd never respond to any of this sort of stuff, that's ok too.

I don't much care what works, whether it's love, support and respect, or polyamory, leather and ball-gags. If a couple is happy with their dynamic, all the power to them.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Deejo said:


> 54,751 of them to be precise. And we're thankful for them ...
> 
> There are plenty of times I either don't like what someone says, or don't like the way they say it ... but I don't wish anyone already in a struggling marriage ill will.
> 
> ...


I agree with this. What I don't agree with is when, in OP's case, they advise others to do exactly as they do and start going on about how anyone who disagrees is beta and then there is the... "My way is the only right way" attitude. Which, Adex, you have displayed. Which is why he has gotten more negative responses in some of his threads.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Adex said:


> Being an alpha and a leader are interchangeable. If you lead, you're an alpha.


Wow. For a guy who is obsessed with this you sure have this totally wrong. 

A leader has Alpha traits to be sure, but he has to have Beta traits as well.

A quality man with a balance of traits will dominate a lesser man who only has Alpha or only has Beta traits. 

I will tell you are am very commonly the AMOG in my realm. Not just Alpha, but the Alpha Male Of the group. Just an example.
To be that one needs more than Alpha. The are above just Alphas because they have adapted to include a wider range of capabilities and skills to achieve their goals.

The Alpha in me wants to slap you upside the head. But the Beta feels you need a hug. So that combination makes me want to grab you, look you in the eye and tell you "dude!!! Get real. Improve yourself. All of you. Just focusing on Alpha, Alpha Alpha is fools gold. BE THE MAN. Sure some of what you say is ok, but unless you are an extreme Beta guy you obsess way too much on Alpha."

Consider this tough love from a guy with some balance.

A total Alpha is weak and can be easily manipulated because he can be counted on to make selfish decisions.

You can certainly have any opinion you want. I get that you need to up your Alpha. Not everyone does.


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## humanbecoming (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Re: Make all or most of the decisions to become the alpha*



Adex said:


> Being an alpha and a leader are interchangeable. If you lead, you're an alpha.


Most definitely not. You need to get out and experience life a bit, my boy.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I keep seeing these threads pop up. And just thought I added my $.02. 

I think the big alpha/beta debate is a little to cut and clean. 
A guy can be a commanding and respectable person, but doesnt have to be a jerk. 
It just so happens that most guys that are jerks, tend to have the more alpha traits and qualities. Like letting their opinion be known, like taking charge when the situation calls for it, and telling people 'no.' 
But you don't have to be a jerk to be considered alpha.

And yes, we always get the response "An alpha doesn't worry what others think of him," or the "An alpha doesn't stop to think if his actions are alpha or not."

And I thought of an example between different alpha personalities. 
My manager recently got replaced. And you don't get promoted to management by being a quiet person. You get it by showing command and some alpha traits. 
My last manager, while he was demanding, I felt like he cared more. He would ask us how our day was, understood we all had outside lives. When the store started losing money, he didn't cut hours. He told his boss he wouldn't cut hours, but that he would find another way to deal with the money loss. That is what I would consider a respectable alpha. Some nights when our workload was too high, he would realize we wouldn't get done, and tell us to get what we could done, and he'll finish the rest.

My new manager, is an alpha jerk. I may be off the clock, and he'll come up to me and tell me what I need to do. No "Hey's," or "How you doing?" He cut hours to the bone (except not his interestingly) and he is extremely demanding. There are nights I can't take my breaks because I'm afraid I won't get done in time. And I am pretty sure he doesn't know my name. Or very many of my coworkers' names, because he calls all of us cap'n. 

Anyway, alpha-away Adex.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> A leader has Alpha traits to be sure, but he has to have Beta traits as well.
> 
> A quality man with a balance of traits will dominate a lesser man who only has Alpha or only has Beta traits.


And this is another core part that I think Adex may be missing, or misreading. 
You need both, otherwise, people will fear you, or take advantage of you. 
If you are too alpha, no one will ever approach you. They'll think you have narcissistic personality disorder, and have no interest in them as a human being or person. 
If you are too beta, people will only approach you to get something they need taken care of. 

Why do you think Patton was so respected by his men in WWII? Was it because he liked to attack the Germans head on? No, because that led to casualties. 
He was respected, because he was on the front and leading. Alpha. 
He was also loved, because he was seen at field hospitals, talking with men, and giving them purple hearts. Beta. 

Why was Julius Ceaser loved by his men? Because he conquered and enslaved an entire people? Well...maybe. 
But he was right on the front with his men, shouting orders, and charging and fighting with them. Alpha. 
And he spent cold winter nights with them in tents, talking, bonding, and sharing in their problems, and modified his military rules to better suit them. Beta.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Adex said:


> How to Be an Alpha Male
> 
> "Just by making decisions can be a step on the road to getting the title alpha male."
> 
> ...


If this sort of thing works for you and your wife then more power to you. 

I think if you want something to work, you have to be willing to try many methods til you find the right one. As long as you're happy and your partner is happy then there is no wrong way or wrong method.


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I'm sure that the shaming helps, and of course the veiled statements hoping that his marriage fails. That's a lot of animosity.
> 
> Be himself?
> 
> ...


Actually I don't think anyone hopes his marriage fails, and I don't think that's a fair statement to make. I think most people here would like Adex to see a different perspective, that may just save his marriage, and that's what I genuinely believe.

Also when people post on an open forum, they are going to get people who don't like their posts. I know many people don't like mine. But they keep responding.

If you put information out there, you have to expect, that particularly when others see that information as damaging to marriages, that they will say something. If we didn't it would be a bunch of people on a forum agreeing, and many new users coming along for advice and getting the wrong idea.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Methinks someone is far too obsessed with a term.


Everytime I see his posts I always think about that one post where his wife gave him a BJ/HJ (don't remember) and he treated her like a slave in the end.
To even think that he THOUGHT he was being Alpha!!...

This guy is too obsessed with this term and the fact that it doesn't come naturally for him and tries to hard to be one ...makes him end up looking VERY fake.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Deejo said:


> I'm sure that the shaming helps, and of course the veiled statements hoping that his marriage fails. That's a lot of animosity.
> 
> Be himself?
> 
> ...


Yes this is true. When I was too nice before, my marriage was worse. To be clear, in almost anything I post, my advice is geared to the nice guys in marriages where it isn't working well or they don't get sex.

I'm trying to help them out. If a guy is beta and his marriage is great, then he's lucky and doesn't have to worry about changing. However, more times than not, the wife learns to take advantage of this niceness. Also, I never said I am an alpha. What I am doing is learning to be more like an alpha.

As for people that insult me, I don't really care. I'm used to getting such negative responses because it's stuff that women don't like to hear. If I was a woman, I'd probably not like the stuff I was saying unless I was a true beta woman.

I never treated my wife like a slave. She gave me a handjob and I said good job. What's wrong with that? It's complimenting her technique and I was half joking when I said it. It's called sarcasm.

Also, if you're a leader, you have a lot more alpha traits than beta traits. A leader makes the decisions, tells people what to do, has to have the confidence where people will follow, etc. I see very little beta traits in a leader. Betas are generally followers.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

> As for people that insult me, I don't really care. I'm used to getting such negative responses because it's stuff that women don't like to hear. If I was a woman, I'd probably not like the stuff I was saying unless I was a true beta woman.



Adex, there's nothing wrong in wanting to make yourself more manly, but good alphas also have good beta qualities. You hammer away at this subject, thread after thread, without a care for how insulting some of the things you post are to women... I can't believe that this is your intention, but that is how it comes across.

Some of us who grew up with pure alpha fathers who used their patriarchal powers to subdue, intimidate, humiliate and control, have spent a lifetime having to rewrite our own dysfunctional scripts in order to undo the damage that pure alphas like that can cause. We're not going to react well when we hear some of the things you are urging other men to do... 

My alpha SO went home about half an hour ago, and when I went into my bedroom to start getting ready for bed, I noticed a lump under the duvet... It's freezing cold outside, and he'd placed a fluffy hot water bottle in my bed. I worship the ground that man walks on. He's a blend of good alpha and good beta, and I consider myself blessed to have him in my life. And he knows it!


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Adex said:


> Yes this is true. When I was too nice before, my marriage was worse. To be clear, in almost anything I post, my advice is geared to the nice guys in marriages where it isn't working well or they don't get sex.
> 
> I'm trying to help them out. If a guy is beta and his marriage is great, then he's lucky and doesn't have to worry about changing. However, more times than not, the wife learns to take advantage of this niceness. Also, I never said I am an alpha. What I am doing is learning to be more like an alpha.
> 
> ...


Adex.... When you were a "nice guy" or what you deemed beta... Did you appreciate being treated like crap? Since your here posting thread after thread about being alpha I would assume not. For you to go around stating that a beta woman would enjoy such behavior is pure ignorance. Having what some may see as beta qualities does not mean that person is a follower. Its one thing to state how you see things but quite another to speak for others. 

You go on and on about women not agreeing .... Well dih. You certainly wouldnt agree if it was advised for women to treat men in such a manner. Ones gender really doesnt matter in this case. Male or female hardly anyone wants or likes disrespect, being commanded or controlled, treated like a last priority, being manipulated, ect.

There have been men here stating that they disagree with you as well. Not just women so tbis really isnt gender specific imo.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Adex said:


> Yes this is true. When I was too nice before, my marriage was worse. To be clear, in almost anything I post, my advice is geared to the nice guys in marriages where it isn't working well or they don't get sex.
> 
> I'm trying to help them out. If a guy is beta and his marriage is great, then he's lucky and doesn't have to worry about changing. However, more times than not, the wife learns to take advantage of this niceness. Also, I never said I am an alpha. What I am doing is learning to be more like an alpha.
> 
> ...


I think you are getting a lot of good advice from men who havea good balance and have things going well.

You also get good advice from women, women who know what it's like to be with Alpha jerks, and who left those guys. 

I personally love being in a male led relationship, and that's my choice. I could not be led by someone who had no beta qualities or who showed himself to be a person who would need to follow the commandments of poon. I follow him because he is a good leader, he has strengths and weaknesses like any man, but he is a man of his word, he is honourable, he is not selfish, and he does care about both of us.

You can ignore all of the advice given by people who disagree with you, but I hope you don't. You may end up with a great balance and far greater and more enriched relationship if you have an open mind.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

ok...we can all agree that I'm more Beta then Alpha right?

I've noticed how I look at what I perceive as either alpha or beta..

Would it be a better assessment to say the alpha qualities tend to get you the girl, but the beta qualities tend to make the relationship last?

Seriously.. How much alpha can a person take in a relationship? Maybe years ago that worked, but now I just can't see trying to be alpha all the time with the person you are in a relationship with.

I guess I'm trying to get intouch with my Alpha side, so I can learn how to use it right..I'm not getting rid of Beta me...I like beta me..But beta me could be alittle less concerned with what others think of me..


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

If it works for you Adex, great... I always assume that these are merely rhetorical post and not some laundry list of instructions. So I don't see the need to post anything to the contrary. But, I am sure glad I am comfortable in my own skin and it works for our marriage. 

It is not that I don't work at my marriage, I think all healthy marriages take work and they don't just happen, but if I had to work this hard, I am pretty sure I would not get anything else done in life.


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## mhg (Dec 5, 2012)

Broken at 20 said:


> And this is another core part that I think Adex may be missing, or misreading.
> You need both, otherwise, people will fear you, or take advantage of you.
> If you are too alpha, no one will ever approach you. They'll think you have narcissistic personality disorder, and have no interest in them as a human being or person.
> If you are too beta, people will only approach you to get something they need taken care of.
> ...


Yes Adex, it's me again. The so-called beta boy.
Believe it or not, I'm not here to knock you or your beliefs, but to put forward another point of view. 

As Broken said, you need a balance of alpha and beta. You assume I'm beta, and call me beta boy, simply because I have my wife on a pedestal and do anything she asks of me.

You've said yourself, you see very little beta traits in a leader. I have to disagree.
I own a business that employs 9 men. I direct these men every day, tell them what to do, where to go, how to do things, etc etc. I'm told I'm a natural leader and that they respect my authority.
They don't argue with me, or walk all over me, and are some of the toughest, most in-your-face men you will find. I'm more alpha in this situation, if you like that term.
I also have beta traits. I give them time off if their kids are sick, if their spouse is sick, if they just want time to spend with their family, whatever reason. One asked for time to spend with his dying mother. I gave him the time off with full pay. I'm approachable, I listen to them if they have a problem, I even pay for their holidays once a year. I don't get them to do anything I wouldn't do myself. I have one man who came in three days ago and told me he has cancer, and he cried in my arms. Would you call him beta boy? 
I could go on, but what I'm getting at is, if you have a balance of both traits, you inspire people to follow your lead, you inspire loyalty and confidence.

You don't inspire people with sarcastic "compliments", or by beating your chest and proclaiming that it's your way or nothing.


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## TeaLeaves4 (Feb 19, 2010)

Adex said:


> Yes this is true. When I was too nice before, my marriage was worse. To be clear, in almost anything I post, my advice is geared to the nice guys in marriages where it isn't working well or they don't get sex.
> 
> I'm trying to help them out. If a guy is beta and his marriage is great, then he's lucky and doesn't have to worry about changing. However, more times than not, the wife learns to take advantage of this niceness. Also, I never said I am an alpha. What I am doing is learning to be more like an alpha.
> 
> ...


And just you because you state something, doesn't make it a fact. it's not " something I don't want to hear" , because your opinion does not affect my life. I take care of myself and make my own decisions as such. And guess what, my H is very happy with his sex life. 

Most people here are trying to tell you you're way off base. But you're so "alpha"now, you forgot how to listen and consider other ideas and to Recognize your own faults and learn to correct them. Mark of a good leader? No.


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## NEMESIS (Mar 12, 2013)

To a degree he's right. My wife is the dominant outside of the house, shes her own boss at work and commands people around all day to follow her whims. So when she gets home she expects me to be the one who she can trust by being able to release herself to me. By that meaning I call the majority of the shots and make the decisions, she does this all day now its her turn to let go and let daddy be the boss so to speak. It's all about TRUST if your significant other trusts you they will follow your decisions in confidence that you are making the right choice even if you may not be. It wasn't always this way I used to be the nice guy "well babe I dunno what do you think" or if she asked "what movie do you want to watch", "I don't know babe what do you want to watch". It's a lot of little things such as those that can cause turmoil in a relationship such as mine. My wife would ask me things like this expecting my honest answer and instead I would beat around the bush with it and be indecisive to her that drops the respect/trust level that your confident in your decision making. Plain and simple it's a turnoff. So with her being frustrated I finally started picking up on this and realized that when I gave her straight answers instead of being the nice guy you decide you pick you choose I noticed a better response almost immediately. Every relationship is different in the case of mine my wife expects me to be the boss dad while shes the boss in her career life. Awhile back I used to text her at work things like "hey do you maybe want to go eat tonite somewhere"? It's that "maybe" that just killed the moment for her it's not a definite choice in decision making and shows weakness in confidence. And the answer would most times be ugh im tired I'd rather just come home. Now I say "Hey baby were going out for dinner tonite your clothes are picked out for you to wear on the bed so when you get home change into them and we can head out". TRUST, me picking out her clothes shows her what I want to see her in and makes her feel good and in the process sort of baby's her by me dressing her. But that's ok because she likes that and TRUST'S in my decision that i know she will look effin good to me by my choice. And I didn't beat around the bush by telling her were going out to dinner tonite. To each their own like I said but by me being a decision maker it is improving my relationship 4 fold easily. And you don't have to be a jerk by being the decision maker but honesty in your answers are also keys in the TRUST tree even if it may hurt your significant others feelings you were being honest and they will respect your for that. Hope maybe some of this can help out.:smthumbup: ~NEM


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Adex, I'm not gonna trash you beause I tend to agree with the fact that being a nice guy almost ALWAYS gets you nothing with your wife, girlfriend or life in general.

But I've been a leader in most things in my life and will eventually (taking for ever) have paper work go through to be a leader in my professional life as well. What I've learned in my 34 years on this planet, is that a good leader knows when to follow.

Trust me on this one. Sounds cliché, but it's not.


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

"Alpha" as a sort of general concept makes sense. It's more of a suggestion, or a gesture, than any particular thing. 

But these absolutely insane attempts to define this gesture result in pretty hilarious threads and posts throughout the relationship-sphere and the manosphere. Someone will come in and say things like "The most alpha thing you can do is to always make every decision" and then a woman will chime in that she thinks a *really* alpha man will do what his wife says and smile about it and never look at another woman, and then another guy will jump in and say that Ted Bundy is incredibly alpha, etc.

Like the Bard said, through Polonious, To thine own self be true. That's the only thing, to me, that makes sense in these discussions.

For football nuts: was Tom Osborne less "alpha" than Nick Saban because he didn't berate his kids as much? I don't think anyone who's seen even a 5 minute interview with Osborne would make that suggestion. Osborne has an authenticity, an integrity, and a fidelity to his own belief system and values that make him "alpha" if we use that term. Personally, I don't anymore.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Alpha is the ability to stand up and lead. 
That may be taking the lead in a relationship. Taking lead at a project at work. Taking lead among your friends about where you are eating tonight. 

Beta is the ability to bond and share
Listening and connecting with others. Understanding what they are going through, and showing them that you care about them as a person. Showing a more sensitive side that you don't always let out. 


To much of any one trait is a bad thing. 
Too much alpha, and sure, people may follow you, but they won't trust you. They won't go out of their way to help you. 
Too much beta, and you become the 40 year old virgin that is every girl's best friend. 

But Adex, I will agree with you and a few other posters. 
If you had to choose between being overly alpha, or overly beta, most would choose overly alpha. Because while you may be a shallow emotionless jerk, you'll be a shallow emotionless jerk that gets what he wants.
But ideally you want a combination of the two. I don't know what the exact amount is, 50% alpha and 50% beta, or 75% alpha and 25% beta, but I know that a mix is likely better than 100% one or the other.


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

I agree that none of us doormats want to be the extreme alpha, as if we have only two choices in life. If I were to use the "%" balance of Alpha/Beta, at my job I'm 75/25. At home, for some reason I'm 10/90. It's simply trying and learning to implement more alpha characteristics that I believe we all have inside of us, into our relationships with our women. 

I am respected, looked up to, treated fairly, and sometimes feared at work. It feels good, and I feel like a man. But Im not in love with my boss. At work, I have to prove my worth, and be a leader of men. Never occured to me in the last 20 yrs of my life to also be a leader of my woman. So simple of an idea that Ive managed to complicate. Maybe I'm afraid that Id lose my woman if I acted similarly? I don't know, it's why I'm here on TAM. lol.

Sliding that scale of alpha to be more of a 50/50, without losing my wonderful beta qualities, that I'm damn proud of, and that the wife loves, is my goal.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Adex said:


> You should not fear whether your choice is the right one or wrong one, just make it. Also, don't hesitate when you make a decision. Sure you can think it through with time, but when giving your decision, do it without hesitation.


That's interesting because this article did not say that and in fact stated that a person making poor decisions is going to be replaced by someone else.

I can agree that people who are decisive are better leaders. But the advice in the OP is bordering on telling people to make quick decisions without regard to consequences, which is recklessness.

I often tell my wife that I need to think about something before giving her an answer. That is a decision too, and is something a wise leader does when there is no reason to act in haste and the consequences are significant.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

NEMESIS said:


> To a degree he's right. My wife is the dominant outside of the house, shes her own boss at work and commands people around all day to follow her whims. So when she gets home she expects me to be the one who she can trust by being able to release herself to me. By that meaning I call the majority of the shots and make the decisions, she does this all day now its her turn to let go and let daddy be the boss so to speak. It's all about TRUST if your significant other trusts you they will follow your decisions in confidence that you are making the right choice even if you may not be. It wasn't always this way I used to be the nice guy "well babe I dunno what do you think" or if she asked "what movie do you want to watch", "I don't know babe what do you want to watch". It's a lot of little things such as those that can cause turmoil in a relationship such as mine. My wife would ask me things like this expecting my honest answer and instead I would beat around the bush with it and be indecisive to her that drops the respect/trust level that your confident in your decision making. Plain and simple it's a turnoff. So with her being frustrated I finally started picking up on this and realized that when I gave her straight answers instead of being the nice guy you decide you pick you choose I noticed a better response almost immediately. Every relationship is different in the case of mine my wife expects me to be the boss dad while shes the boss in her career life. Awhile back I used to text her at work things like "hey do you maybe want to go eat tonite somewhere"? It's that "maybe" that just killed the moment for her it's not a definite choice in decision making and shows weakness in confidence. And the answer would most times be ugh im tired I'd rather just come home. Now I say "Hey baby were going out for dinner tonite your clothes are picked out for you to wear on the bed so when you get home change into them and we can head out". TRUST, me picking out her clothes shows her what I want to see her in and makes her feel good and in the process sort of baby's her by me dressing her. But that's ok because she likes that and TRUST'S in my decision that i know she will look effin good to me by my choice. And I didn't beat around the bush by telling her were going out to dinner tonite. To each their own like I said but by me being a decision maker it is improving my relationship 4 fold easily. And you don't have to be a jerk by being the decision maker but honesty in your answers are also keys in the TRUST tree even if it may hurt your significant others feelings you were being honest and they will respect your for that. Hope maybe some of this can help out.:smthumbup: ~NEM


That's pretty much what I'm trying to say right there. You've just said it in a more tactful way. Some of the women on this board just don't get it. 

However, if their man acted like how I've been saying without telling them what they're doing directly, they'd love him for it.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Adex, I'm not gonna trash you beause I tend to agree with the fact that being a nice guy almost ALWAYS gets you nothing with your wife, girlfriend or life in general.
> 
> But I've been a leader in most things in my life and will eventually (taking for ever) have paper work go through to be a leader in my professional life as well. What I've learned in my 34 years on this planet, is that a good leader knows when to follow.
> 
> Trust me on this one. Sounds cliché, but it's not.


In my professional life, I was put in a position to be a leader and tell older people what to do even though I'm younger. It took some getting used to but now it comes easy to me. They ask me all the time what should done or what needs to be done. I give them an answer straight and they follow. They have confidence in me because of that.

I have carried that over to my marriage as well. A leader is an alpha. There are very few beta qualities in a leader. Even listening to others can be considered an alpha trait. I have enough beta qualities in me to up the alpha to the max. Even the most alpha person probably has a few beta qualities.

This is why the key is to just be more alpha. I may come off as a jerk on this forum, but in real life if anyone met me, I'm sure I'd come off as this professional, confident person that knows what I'm doing. As I said, I keep these views to myself. However, these views have helped me become a better person.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Adex said:


> That's pretty much what I'm trying to say right there.


You made it through that post? It was a big blur too me.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

To all the women out there, answer this question honestly. Which man would you prefer as a husband:

Man A: Indecisive. When you ask him something, he says I don't know or what do you think is better. He always comes to you when trying to decide on something. Appears like he lacks confidence in his own decisionmaking.

Man B: Is confident and decisive. When you ask him help in deciding something, he always has an answer that seems to be the right decision when thinking about it. He can make his own decisions, but takes your advice often when making his decisions.

Which man would you rather be with? This is the point of my thread.


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## BrockLanders (Jul 23, 2012)

Honestly this division of alpha versus beta seems like reductio ad absurdum. Humans are far more complex than this polar division that someone invented.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Trenton said:


> I am an Alpha female with Betta fish qualities.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Adex said:


> To all the women out there, answer this question honestly. Which man would you prefer as a husband:
> 
> Man A: Indecisive. When you ask him something, he says I don't know or what do you think is better. He always comes to you when trying to decide on something. Appears like he lacks confidence in his own decisionmaking.
> 
> ...


I think a lot of the women are picking up on a combination of superficiality and arrogance that rubs them the wrong way - most particularly for being told that they worship the ground you walk on regardless of what they actually feel. 

This can be seen in a lot of your posts but I am going to give you an example that will come as a surprise to you. In your signature:




> “A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything.”


This is called a chiasmus. It is like a poem. It has a literary structure that is pleasing to the mind for its rhyme-like quality and not because it contains any wisdom. It "sounds catchy".

It has to do with the placement of parallels or opposites, and the order they appear. In this case, stand/fall and nothing/anything are the opposites, and they are simply placed every-other-word.

Now let me just give you an off-the cuff stupid example of exactly the same thing using up/down and something/anything:

"A man who is up to something is down for anything."

See how that sounds catchy and wise? Well it doesn't actually mean anything at all, I just made that up by knowing how a chiasmus works. There are a lot of different forms not worth discussing here except to say that it is not a mark of intellect to fall for them. Quite the opposite. It is the mark of intellect to see through how superficial they are. 

Falling for the inane chiasmus and the superficiality of your alpha/beta posts, the closed-mindedness - these are all symptomatic of the same thing which I shall not summarize in one simple word because the moderators will sanction me for it. But let's just say that there is a lack of depth here that the women are not really keen on.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> I think a lot of the women are picking up on a combination of superficiality and arrogance that rubs them the wrong way - most particularly for being told that they worship the ground you walk on regardless of what they actually feel.
> 
> This can be seen in a lot of your posts but I am going to give you an example that will come as a surprise to you. In your signature:
> 
> ...


You didn't answer my question, man A or B. Perhaps you didn't answer it because you know the answer is B, and would hate to prove my point.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> To all the women out there, answer this question honestly. Which man would you prefer as a husband:
> 
> Man A: Indecisive. When you ask him something, he says I don't know or what do you think is better. He always comes to you when trying to decide on something. Appears like he lacks confidence in his own decisionmaking.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if it would be considered a Freudian slip...but

Look at what he put for the descriptions.. Man A..Man B...Alpha..Beta...

Why use A and B, not 1 and 2?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Adex said:


> You didn't answer my question, man A or B. Perhaps you didn't answer it because you know the answer is B, and would hate to prove my point.


Uhhh, I think Wiserforit would prefer neither...since Wiserforit is a MAN! 

So, I will answer for you. My husband is a blend of A & B, leaning more toward A, the so-called "indecisive" man... and I wouldn't trade him for all the "B's" in the world. You don't have to believe me. I really couldn't care less. But it's true. That is the man I married. That is the man I love. That is the man I would choose over and over and over again.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

geek down said:


> I'm not sure if it would be considered a Freudian slip...but
> 
> Look at what he put for the descriptions.. Man A..Man B...Alpha..Beta...
> 
> Why use A and B, not 1 and 2?


Except, Man A is the "beta" description and Man B is the "alpha" description.... more like, let's confuse them... 'if they choose B, thinking "beta", I got them!' sort of thinking.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Uhhh, I think Wiserforit would prefer neither...since Wiserforit is a MAN!


... and may I say that you, my dear, are all woman. :smthumbup:


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Adex said:


> Can I buy this purse? No it's too much money.


What does this hypothetical alpha male do when his wife earns as much or more than he does? Does he still tell her when she cannot buy things?


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Except, Man A is the "beta" description and Man B is the "alpha" description.... more like, let's confuse them... 'if they choose B, thinking "beta", I got them!' sort of thinking.


Thats where I was going... Subconsiously he gave the A(Alpha) a weak description based on personal perceived images of 'beta'

And a strong image of Alpha for the B(Beta)...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Adex said:


> To all the women out there, answer this question honestly. Which man would you prefer as a husband:
> 
> Man A: Indecisive. When you ask him something, he says I don't know or what do you think is better. He always comes to you when trying to decide on something. Appears like he lacks confidence in his own decisionmaking.
> 
> ...


For man B I'm going with the discription you gave in the OP.. the man oh makes a quick decision, right or wrong, just to make a decision.

With that in mind I would not want Man A or Man B.

What I want is an intelligent man who is secure enough in himself to have a strong, intelligent woman besides him. When a decision is needed that affects both of them, they discuss it and come up with the solution together. Its called the policy of joint agreement.

To make a decision rashly is as bad as not being able to make a decision.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> To make a decision rashly is as bad as not being able to make a decision.


Except when it's the right one.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Both examples are fundementally flawed and intentionally planted to move the debate to his will. Its controlling the ebb and flow of the argument, something Hunter Thompson called 'politics'. 

I am well versed in this tactic. I use it quite well and extensively in my debates. Forming your question into two inherently false categories that the other has to choose from forces the person you are challenging to think in a pattern that you have chosen for them..

Are you a demi-god born from Zeus or a pathetic drunk that lives in filth? Each choice is wrong, but if you are forced to pick, then most people would live in filth..



Disenchanted said:


> Except when it's the right one.


And the house wins at blackjack 60% of the time..


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

geek down said:


> And the house wins at blackjack 60% of the time..


Exactly.

An Alpha does not enter that house.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

geek down said:


> Forming your question into two inherently false categories that the other has to choose from forces the person you are challenging to think in a pattern that you have chosen for them.


Your logic is flawed in that they are not false categories. Man A is indecisive and man B is decisive which I've presented as facts. It is the point of my original post. Just because others like to chime in and bring up past posts that I made that have nothing to do with the current topic at hand, does not change my point or my question.

If you strictly had to choose between the first man or second, which would it be? Obviously, the second man is the more attractive man to a woman. Regardless of which man is alpha or which man is beta, man B is the more attractive man.

However, man B is clearly the one that demonstrates alpha traits.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

i think talking constantly talking about alpha is in itself beta.

just my opinion.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> Your logic is flawed in that they are not false categories. Man A is indecisive and man B is decisive which I've presented as facts. It is the point of my original post. Just because others like to chime in and bring up past posts that I made that have nothing to do with the current topic at hand, does not change my point or my question.
> 
> If you strictly had to choose between the first man or second, which would it be? Obviously, the second man is the more attractive man to a woman. Regardless of which man is alpha or which man is beta, man B is the more attractive man.
> 
> However, man B is clearly the one that demonstrates alpha traits.


General Custer wasn't very indecisive....Nor was Patton
Both Alphas....How'd their 'choice' work out for them?

A better, more sound course would have been 4 examples; two indecisive males, two decisive...one each beta and one each alpha...OH!! and a control...

To answer your question.. I would choose neither... Both are inherently and equally unappealing to woman at different levels...Do you eat the rotting apple or rotting pear?...Both options won't get you to a positive end result...hence the only positive choice is neither.

John Wayne was both Cole AND Sean Thornton 



naga75 said:


> i think talking constantly talking about alpha is in itself beta.
> 
> just my opinion.


Starting to look more Gamma then beta OR alpha...


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> Except when it's the right one.


But here's the kicker... it's like the phrase... "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..." So what one person thinks may be right another might think it's wrong. I'm with Ele with the policy of joint agreement. I prefer to discuss things together rather then having one or the other make a decision without consulting first.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

My marriage uses POJA. Policy Of Joint Agreement. Many reasons for this. But the most obvious is that my marriage is stronger if we are partners and we combine our complementary skils AND time. This was especially important early on when I was in the Navy. Many military marriages fall apart because the wife is not capable of handling things on her own. These wives can end up depending on other men to fill the void. That pretty much ends in infidelity most of the time.

My wife and I have always done what Athol calls the Captain and The First Mate. Who knew what it would be called? Much of the time my wife is at the helm while I frankly make the money and pursue my Engineering career. I do not have time for any nonsense about making ALL of the decisions. How weak would that be? LOL. Hilarious. But even more important how disrespectful would that be for my wife? I married a competent woman so that we could face life together. I have way too much Alpha in me to marry a weak woman. I need a woman compatible with me. I have too much Beta in me to not want the best life for my wife. From one perspective I have delegated these responsibilities. But that is disengenuous, the truth is that we have divvied up the responsibilites so we can both support our marriage / family.

Again being an Alpha alone is very weak. So it may very well be Alpha to make ALL the decisions. LOL. How lame that is. So while that Alpha is making all the decisions I am kicking butt in the real world outperfoming this guy who is hung up on micromanaging everything.

Having a balance is strong. I am a leader. Alphas are not. They lack the skills to properly lead. This is an example. They have to make all the decisions even though they are not qualified to do so. Plus they really do not like to work for other either. 

It takes a capable and confident man to be in a balanced relationship with a competent and capable woman. The combination is a very powerful thing. It can also be very passionate.

Now to be clear, there are times when marshall law is declared and I take the helm. major decisions are agreed to but in emergencies I invoke the Kracken. This is absolutely not a problem for my wife. I do not invoke it to dominate my wife. Indeed it is to dominate those that might threaten us.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Adex said:


> To all the women out there, answer this question honestly. Which man would you prefer as a husband:
> 
> Man A: Indecisive. When you ask him something, he says I don't know or what do you think is better. He always comes to you when trying to decide on something. Appears like he lacks confidence in his own decisionmaking.
> 
> ...


Fallacies. Why should these women settle for these choices? Neither one of these guys is a superior male.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Adex said:


> To all the women out there, answer this question honestly. Which man would you prefer as a husband:
> 
> Man A: Indecisive. When you ask him something, he says I don't know or what do you think is better. He always comes to you when trying to decide on something. Appears like he lacks confidence in his own decisionmaking.
> 
> ...


But this is not the same as what you said in the OP. There you said that big alpha dude makes all the decisions. Now you are saying that he makes decisions taking in the advice of his partner. OK, yep, whatever.

The problem is that you would not be comfortable having a women that *Is confident and decisive. When you ask her help in deciding something, she always has an answer that seems to be the right decision when thinking about it. She can make her own decisions, but takes your advice often when making her decisions.*

This is the part of your ramblings that is cringe worthy. You want to be a big alpha man but you can only do that with a super beta woman that you have to force to sleep with you. This does not make an alpha, this makes a jerk.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Adex said:


> Your logic is flawed in that they are not false categories. Man A is indecisive and man B is decisive which I've presented as facts. It is the point of my original post. Just because others like to chime in and bring up past posts that I made that have nothing to do with the current topic at hand, does not change my point or my question.
> 
> If you strictly had to choose between the first man or second, which would it be? Obviously, the second man is the more attractive man to a woman. Regardless of which man is alpha or which man is beta, man B is the more attractive man.
> 
> However, man B is clearly the one that demonstrates alpha traits.


He means using a false dichotomy to manipulate people into saying "you're right". 

It is bordering on the infantile to point out that decisive people are more attractive than indecisive. In either men or women.

But I have news for you. A manipulative person can seize control (be the alpha) with exactly the opposite tactic - by feigning indecisiveness. 

Ask someone if they want chocolate or vanilla. They can hem and haw and pretend they aren't really sure, it depends on what kind of chocolate and what kind of vanilla - I can't decide... go ahead and decide for me. Regardless of what they are given, the manipulative fake-beta complains that they don't really like whatever you chose for them. 

They get you frustrated by being indecisive in the first place, and then get you really angry for complaining about you, the supposed alpha decider, making the inferior choice. The whole game here is causing that frustration/anger, and the purpose is that once you are already in an emotional state they can really put the screws to you with further beta-looking manipulative plays. 

So this is a clear example where playing beta is actually the alpha, manipulating another person who believes himself to be an alpha. 

Historically women have specialized in this type of behavior because of sheer physical domination by men. They can be clever about manipulating men into thinking they have made the decision when it has been the woman. Your president is playing a variation on this theme he calls "leading from behind". Some components of this field are classified as passive-aggressive, some as covert-aggressive, etc. and you will see some of it in the theory of asymmetric warfare reaching back to Sun Tzu. Slaves too learn this art of being the alpha by playing the beta. 

In case it isn't clear to you, I do not like the way you have treated some of the women here and in the interest of entertaining them I'm happy to run circles around your superficial reasoning skills.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Adex said:


> In my professional life, I was put in a position to be a leader and tell older people what to do even though I'm younger. It took some getting used to but now it comes easy to me. They ask me all the time what should done or what needs to be done. I give them an answer straight and they follow. They have confidence in me because of that.
> 
> I have carried that over to my marriage as well. A leader is an alpha. There are very few beta qualities in a leader. Even listening to others can be considered an alpha trait. I have enough beta qualities in me to up the alpha to the max. Even the most alpha person probably has a few beta qualities.
> 
> This is why the key is to just be more alpha. I may come off as a jerk on this forum, but in real life if anyone met me, I'm sure I'd come off as this professional, confident person that knows what I'm doing. As I said, I keep these views to myself. However, these views have helped me become a better person.


My professional role has typically been to innovate and lead Alpha techies. Establish new groups to deal with new challenges, hire the team and guide its operations while also being an innovator. To implement major company initiatives with significant impact and return on investment. To guide other teams. I am most often the AMOG. We do significant things. Everyone must pull their own weight. Think of it as special forces. All the folks on my teams are all stars. I hire them to be capable. If they needed constant guidance I would not have hired them. I will help them when ever that is required. But I expect them to make decisons. I do not tell people to cleanup on isle nine.

What in the world do you manage that your people have to ask you what to do? I develop people who are leaders. I mentor and guide. I will if need be make decisions. I certainly set direction. But what a weak organization we would be running if people had to use me as a bottleneck to make ALL the decisions. What a waste of my time and talents. In no way is what we do so simple that any one person could do alone. I provide the vision. I do not develop that entire vision alone. I fascilitate it at times. I surround myself with capable people. Not yes people either. If they are going to just agree with me I do not need them. I respect them. 

Perhaps the way you run your team you micromanage / make ALL the decsions. Why would a company pay you to do the job of your direct reports? Nonsense. Being a good leader requires all sorts of skills and the ability to delegate, deal with conflicts, fascilitate and so on. I will often fill the missing gap ... because I can, but the company is infinitely better if I respect and develop my teams. My teams do not just accomplish what any single indovidual can do. It produces what the aggregate can do. 

Micromanaging / makeing ALL the decisons for people just means one is a big fish in a little pond. It Alpha in that it is self serving.

Having true confidence is strong. Being arrogant is weak. Just relying on NIH ( not invented here ) and being forceful is not leadership. There is a time for all things under heaven. Knowing when to invoke Alpha and when not to is critical and falls under having a clue.

By the way the biggest knock I have had from my managers in my career is ... that I sometimes intimidate upper management. LOL. Yes sometimes I scare the bejusus out of them with my passion. Sometimes leadship flows up. Not because my management is not capable. It is because they hire competent people who know their jobs. I am often humbled by the challenges we are faced with and by the efforts of my team. If you lead by intimidation and domination you do not have the loyalty of your people.

Perspectives on Psychological Wellness: The Difference Between Confidence and Arrogance



> Both the confident and arrogant person is aware of personal areas of strength and ability. However, a confident person has little difficulty seeing others gifts and strengths while the arrogant cannot. Additionally a confident person does not insist on the adoration of others for their skills or abilities. People who are self-confident show it with their actions, not by their words. Self -confidence is knowledge of ability while arrogance insists on sharing successes with others. There is a quiet calm in the truly confident that the arrogant do not posess. If you find yourself constantly trying to impress friends, family or others with your skills and abilities, you have crossed the line into arrogance.


<tokenBetaComment>
So if this post was all too arrogant I apologize. 
</tokenBetaComment>


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I think the rotten feeling in peoples stomach's is distracting them from the point Adex is trying to make.

Just reading between the lines here - based on his posts it seems he's trying to relay that being the primary decision maker and leader of a household is what gets a mans needs met for the most part.

I simply can't argue with that logic. Not only history, but I'm sure each and every one of us has multiple stories of situations where women (I'm using male=alpha, female = beta for this example) will pretty much do ANYTHING for that "alpha" male. Sometimes he's ugly as F but has more alpha qualities. Sometimes he's attractive but dumb as dirt, yet still has more alpha qualities on balance. These men typically aren't the ones in my situation for example. On a message board with pink backround complaining like a little B about how infrequent intimacy is. So I get the heart of his point. And I get that he pretty much eliminates the rosey sweetness and just posts bluntly for effect. But try to see it for what it is. I think he's a dude just as lost as the rest of us "hoping" that this theory will provide sustained results.

I'm too jaded to think any one simplistic theory will ever solve the female equation. You all are just too facsinating and down right complex....but if you can stick to a plan that works more often than not, then as a man you're golden. I believe that's what Adex is trying to do.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> Except when it's the right one.


To make a decision rashly is the same was making one wrecklessly.

Generally a decision made wrecklessly/rashly is not the right decision. It is it, it's only so by sheer luck.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I get that it's necessary for some men to have to 'up their game' in order to get their needs met, but I don't see how this is best achieved by reducing their partner's decision making status to that of a child in order to do so. Surely this is simply lowering the bar in order to compete?

Trying to weaken another's status in a relationship isn't necessarily going to make the other person appear stronger and earn them respect. On the contrary; to me, this grappling for power would indicate a rather unattractive level of insecurity and weakness.

Only a very beta woman is going to accept the sort of dynamics Adex is advocating. In which case, why would these sort of tactics be necessary? If she isn't naturally beta, trying to manipulate her into adopting such submissive qualities is hardly likely to make for an harmonious relationship...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Gosh, I've been away from this board a couple of months and when I return what do I find? Another frigging thread about being alpha! :sleeping:


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Wiserforit said:


> He means using a false dichotomy to manipulate people into saying "you're right".
> 
> It is bordering on the infantile to point out that decisive people are more attractive than indecisive. In either men or women.
> 
> ...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sinnister said:


> I think the rotten feeling in peoples stomach's is distracting them from the point Adex is trying to make.
> 
> *Just reading between the lines here - based on his posts it seems he's trying to relay that being the primary decision maker and leader of a household is what gets a mans needs met for the most part.*
> 
> ...


I agree this is his real goal. 

Freeing your inner male and gaining a more optimal balance is wondermous. If it brings more passion to a marriage, I am down with that.

Life manifests itself in synergies. 

Can you have too much ram, too much speed, too much horse power, too much strength, too much Alpha ...

As you know horse power / torque is great. However you have to get that power to the road. But yeah give me an extra 100 horsepower any day. Still horse power alone will rarely get you the win.

If you want strength then do the work. But if you only press all the time, you are very likely to get muscle imbalances and hurt yourself, but for sure not achieve your potential. There is no such thing as overtraining, only under eating and under sleeping. Balance.

Can you have too much Alpha? Hell no. As long as you can balance it out. Otherwise the sex you are getting is in the county jail. Will most married men and certainly guys who would post on this pink site beneift from some serious Alpha balance. Oh for sure. We tend to suppress our Alpha for all sorts of reasons. There are all sorts of agendas that conflict with a man being a man. So I get that. I am all for this as long as you maintain enough Beta.

I truly wish him well and hope he finds that Nirvana. That sweet spot in his life. Is he on the road? Maybe. You have to start somewhere and his journey may take him in many directions.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I think the rotten feeling in peoples stomach's is distracting them from the point Adex is trying to make.
> 
> Just reading between the lines here - based on his posts it seems he's trying to relay that being the primary decision maker and leader of a household is what gets a mans needs met for the most part.
> 
> ...


You see... this would be more believable if Adex were not constantly calling others beta for stating something slightly different, saying their logic and opinions are false because they do not match his, and accusing the women of just not liking it because they are not beta or some such imo nonsense. That is where the rotten feeling comes from. Some of the things he is trying to get at are good points but some of them imo are not.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gaia said:


> You see... this would be more believable if Adex were not constantly calling others beta for stating something slightly different, saying their logic and opinions are false because they do not match his, and accusing the women of just not liking it because they are not beta or some such imo nonsense. That is where the rotten feeling comes from. Some of the things he is trying to get at are good points but some of them imo are not.


Adex is only trying to play the Alpha role in being assertive.
In some environments this type of behavior is rewarded as people get tired of the dance. 

You see this with dogs. One dog will get in anothers space and expect the other to back down. It is a game of domination. Not a game of having the best idea. 

At the other extreme is conflict avoidance.

His strategy will dominate conflict avoiders.

I have seen new managers come into an organization and them rid the organization of very competent people and leave only folks who they can intimidate and dominate. They keep the yes people. The fact that the oganization is less capable is not their concern. All that matters is that they are in charge.

This I think is what Adex is calling leadership. Indeed a leader leads. But the leaders who standout and get things done are much more than this.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Well damn.. I suppose I'm not as much of a conflict avoider as I thought... >_<


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Gaia said:


> Well damn.. I suppose I'm not as much of a conflict avoider as I thought... >_<


Exactly.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

Gaia said:


> You see... this would be more believable if Adex were not constantly calling others beta for stating something slightly different, saying their logic and opinions are false because they do not match his, and accusing the women of just not liking it because they are not beta or some such imo nonsense. That is where the rotten feeling comes from. Some of the things he is trying to get at are good points but some of them imo are not.


The Best Person To Dominate: Yourself. The Best Way To Stop Self Pity: Make Others Feel Good! - YouTube


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> The Best Person To Dominate: Yourself. The Best Way To Stop Self Pity: Make Others Feel Good! - YouTube


Wow... first part of that vid.... no fricken way.... I would beat the guys ass. Good video though disenchanted.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

If this man's definition of 'Alpha' were 100% true...I'd proudly and loudly proclaim my esteem for my Beta self..

In fact...I don't give a sh!t what these 'alphas' think......

I'm Beta and proud of it!!!! I'll cook your girl dinner, fix her computer, hold her all night and cry when she cries....when you are out doing the manly alpha decision thing...


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

geek down said:


> If this man's definition of 'Alpha' were 100% true...I'd proudly and loudly proclaim my esteem for my Beta self..
> 
> In fact...I don't give a sh!t what these 'alphas' think......


I think this makes you alpha


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I think this makes you alpha


Whatever....Alpha, Beta....I'm still Geek...

If the OP or any girl wants that big alpha male...by all means go for it......I'll be fine right here...

DING!!!! OH!! MY COOKIES ARE DONE!!!:rofl:


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

geek down said:


> Whatever....Alpha, Beta....I'm still Geek...
> 
> If the OP or any girl wants that big alpha male...by all means go for it......I'll be fine right here...
> 
> DING!!!! OH!! MY COOKIES ARE DONE!!!:rofl:


:smthumbup:


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

geek down said:


> DING!!!! OH!! MY COOKIES ARE DONE!!!:rofl:


Ooooo Oooooo!!! Chocolate chip??  :smthumbup:


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Ooooo Oooooo!!! Chocolate chip?? and the faint sound of panties dropping... :smthumbup:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> The Best Person To Dominate: Yourself. The Best Way To Stop Self Pity: Make Others Feel Good! - YouTube


He has a great skill of reading those cue cards his GF is holding up. :rofl:

I agree with being your own master and I do not go into situations to dominate other people. If my role is as lead I lead. If it is something else I do that. One can still lead their area however. I seek to do the right thing.

But the following is still true with teams :

Forming
Storming
Norming
Performing

http://www.niwotridge.com/PDFs/FormStormNormPerform.pdf

I know not everything is about the workplace. A marriage is a team.

One tactic I utilize to reduce storming is to identify areas of leadership across as much of the team as I feel is optimal. So I delegate to each an area where they are responsible. It is not their job to make all the decisions in that area but to utilize the rest of the team to determine "the right thing to do". This developes leaders but reduces the storming as everyone has their "territory". Everyone has something to bring to the table. I orchestrate this. If I need to I play head of the Senate. I do have veto power but the team does not hace to even realize that. I have my ways of adjusting direction. They can be subtle or not.

This how one can work with "peers". Everyone has dignity. Everyone has ownership. We are all accountable. So is with my marriage. Perhaps my wife makes me feel I am the Captain. But she does a helluva great job in setting that illusion. We are awesome together. If I do not have the answer there is a good chance my wife does. I chose this woman for who she is. Maybe she chose me. Idunno.

*On a related note. For most of my marriage I thought when my wife came to me with a problem she wanted me to fix it or to tell her how to fix it. LOL. I have learned ... and get this ... they just want you to listen. OMG. Who knew!!? I have learned to ask my wife if she wants me to fix things or if she is looking for advice. She is very often interested in my view and advice but again she is all too happy for me to just freaking listen. Sometimes she says, yes please fix this. This may not be Alpha, but buddy, you will reap the benefits. Bank on it. The odds of you having passionate sex ending with the two of you tuckered out and her having a very pleased and satisfied expression has just made a quantum leap forward. I love that expression BTW.
*


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

I like Kay's description of Captain and First officer.

A woman likes a strong decisive and confident captain, but the first officer does have the power to over rule the captain if the captain's judgement is off.

Here is the key IMO:

DON'T BE A DOORMAT


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

I've always felt like I would rather be the first officer then the captain.. Feel like Will Riker. I'd rather be the number 1 on the flagship then the captain of the Hood.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Entropy...what is with that picture? Just curious.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> Right, I'm the Captain and he's the first officer.
> 
> 
> I understand how his description works for a lot of couples, just not in mine. I constantly question my husband's judgment as I expect him to question mine. We work better this way, rather than my automatic/unspoken deferral (unless his judgment is off.)
> ...


I take it you haven't seen too much of "The Next Generation", youngster. 

Riker is almost never left out of any decision making.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> I take it you haven't seen too much of "The Next Generation", youngster.
> 
> Riker is almost never left out of any decision making.


you'd think a Klingon would be alpha, but whenever they ask Worf his opinion they almost always ignore it


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Disenchanted said:


> I take it you haven't seen too much of "The Next Generation", youngster.
> 
> Riker is almost never left out of any decision making.


I'd go as far to say that Picard wouldnt even think of making a final call without Riker's input...

Case in point..when Picard was abducted and replaced with a fake...Riker spotted it right away and without a word solved the problem, captured the imposter and did it just the way Picard would have...

You could argue that both men held the same role, even if their titles on paper said otherwise...


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

FrenchFry said:


> And ****, Riker pulled Troi. Mmmhmmm.


I like red headed doctors better....



Almostrecovered said:


> you'd think a Klingon would be alpha, but whenever they ask Worf his opinion they almost always ignore it


Contrary to Klingon mythology, not everyday is a good day to die..


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## mothugsta (Feb 22, 2013)

geek down said:


> If this man's definition of 'Alpha' were 100% true...I'd proudly and loudly proclaim my esteem for my Beta self..
> 
> In fact...I don't give a sh!t what these 'alphas' think......
> 
> I'm Beta and proud of it!!!! I'll cook your girl dinner, fix her computer, hold her all night and cry when she cries....when you are out doing the manly alpha decision thing...


Im that man too, and there's nothing wrong with that. It's when I do more..and more...... and after awhile not seeing it appreciated to my liking. Then the resentment and doormatting comes in. THAT'S where I need to put the alpha into high gear, to get my reciprocation. Not by ceasing to be the shoulder for her, the cook, the listener, the empathizer...truly nice guy I am. It's a balance of knowing how to act, and when.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

I agree Mothugsta....I reached that point where I just didn't want to do any of that anymore...felt used and abused...I should have gotten the alpha out of his cage and let him run a muck...but I didn't..
I just shut down like she did years before...

Maybe we should start a "Beta and better for it" thread to off-set all these chest beating faux alpha threads..


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> I get the heart of his point too, and the heart of yours. I have quite a bit less sympathy for Adex for reasons Gaia pointed out, but I still read the threads (rarely comment though) for good reason: research. I think Adex is definitely trying something out here and I don't wish ill on his relationship but refusing to see the blind spots in your actions and actually calling other ways inferior or "beta" is pretty much the downfall of any alpha who is partnered with someone who isn't 100% compliant...which I believe is a very large percentage of people.
> 
> As Wiserforit wisely (lol) pointed out, and as I am learning in my marriage and what Adex keeps missing out on is that without balance and humanity in yourself and your approach to your spouse, the more you "try" to be something (in this case more alpha) the more susceptible you are towards manipulation. So while I am married to a man who definitely thinks he make all of the decisions, from studying these threads and attitudes of the men who are trying to play this part...I still get my way because I know how to talk/manipulate my husband into it.
> 
> ...


FF, very nice post.

I can see where some of you are coming from now with the comments about manipulation and game playing. What helps IS the backdrop of what Adex is pushing. It is blatant there.

There is a level of a man upping his game that is NOT a manipulation or a control or a trick or any of that. I see it is getting his act together in a positive way. He is being a better man. More in tune with his wifes needs. Not a power game but a lovers game.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> I like Kay's description of Captain and First officer.
> 
> A woman likes a strong decisive and confident captain, but the first officer does have the power to over rule the captain if the captain's judgement is off.
> 
> ...


This is my marriage. Long before Athol had any pubes.


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## Disenchanted (Sep 12, 2012)

So last night my GF is out with a friend and texts me "I am trying to get rid of my friend so I can come home to you"

I said "I'm not sure that's a good idea, you've been drinking and it'd probably be safer if you stay at your home tonight".

She texts "Well I'll call you when my friend leaves and *you* can make the decision then".

LOVE IT, and so does she!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> Entropy...what is with that picture? Just curious.


Just another example of Entropy.



It is part of the Avatar contest.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/69284-tam-new-avatar-contest.html

Just some fun.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Disenchanted said:


> So last night my GF is out with a friend and texts me "I am trying to get rid of my friend so I can come home to you"
> 
> I said "I'm not sure that's a good idea, you've been drinking and it'd probably be safer if you stay at your home tonight".
> 
> ...


There IS something to this.

For most of my marriage I have not ordered for my wife at restaurants. However I have discovered she enjoys me ordering for her. Not sure this was always the case. Maybe she read an article on how to make a Beta think he is an Alpha. Hmmmm. I think this is part of being romanced.

She also likes it when I am so into her that I am on the verge of losing control. Think passion here. 

Saturday we were coming out of the shower to get back into bed and she asked me if we should close the windows. As it turned out the answer was yes.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

FrenchFry said:


> Right, I'm the Captain and he's the first officer.
> 
> 
> I understand how his description works for a lot of couples, just not in mine. I constantly question my husband's judgment as I expect him to question mine. We work better this way, rather than my automatic/unspoken deferral (unless his judgment is off.)
> ...


Look, does anyone walk the plank or get thrown in the brig with chains on or not?

My wife has a great pirate outfit.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Adex is only trying to play the Alpha role in being assertive.
> In some environments this type of behavior is rewarded as people get tired of the dance.
> 
> You see this with dogs. One dog will get in anothers space and expect the other to back down. It is a game of domination. Not a game of having the best idea.
> ...


:iagree:

I've come across people like this, too, on my journey through life. They tend to reach the positions they have through bully-boy/girl tactics and back-stabbing, rather than any real skill or leadership.

Their main skill is managing to hone in on and weed out any opposition, thus keeping themselves surrounded by people who they can manipulate and who make them look good. To them, image is more important than the pursuit of excellence, and they'll hide behind it at the expense of all else...

Such people rarely reach the top of the pile, however, because whilst upper management has turned a blind eye to their antics, they actually know what this sort of character is like and, whilst he might get the job done, they actually despise him and don't want him in their lofty ranks.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I think the rotten feeling in peoples stomach's is distracting them from the point Adex is trying to make.
> 
> Just reading between the lines here - based on his posts it seems he's trying to relay that being the primary decision maker and leader of a household is what gets a mans needs met for the most part.
> 
> ...


Thanks sinnister. Yes you said it eloquently. For whatever reason, lots of women are attracted to alphas aka the bad boys. I think the key is to channel the good qualities of alphas and forget about the bad qualities of a pure alpha. 

People are getting too caught up in the term of alpha. I could use the term leader and I'm sure not everyone will be jumping on my back.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

I watched a lot of Star Trek TNG. Picard was an alpha because he made the decisions and didn't hesitate. In fact, I remember one episode where he was explaining to one of his crewmembers that he makes decisions confidently, because if he didn't, then his crew wouldn't believe in or follow him.

Even though Riker was his first officer, I would consider him an alpha too based on his personality but beta professionally because there's an organization he was a part of and he had to follow orders. Worf also appeared more beta to me as did Data, even though he was smart.

I suppose it has to do with how a person comes off. At any rate, I believe being more alpha can be learned.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> I watched a lot of Star Trek TNG. Picard was an alpha because he made the decisions and didn't hesitate. In fact, I remember one episode where he was explaining to one of his crewmembers that he makes decisions confidently, because if he didn't, then his crew wouldn't believe in or follow him.



First Contact...Capt'n Ahab HAD to have his white whale....

He didn't seem so decisive when he called Worf a coward and retreated to the staff room only to blow up and smash his little ships....

self-destruct..don't self-destruct...worf is a coward...worf is the most courageous man ever...blow the ship!!!

yes...VERY decisive...VERY alpha...

Bazingo B!tch!!


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

geek down said:


> First Contact...Capt'n Ahab HAD to have his white whale....
> 
> He didn't seem so decisive when he called Worf a coward and retreated to the staff room only to blow up and smash his little ships....
> 
> ...


I'm talking about in most of the episodes of the show, not just the movie. Even the purest alpha cannot be alpha all the time. 

Actually, from your Banzinga comment, even Sheldon from the Big Bang theory is the alpha of that nerd group. He tells people what to do and they usually follow him. Yes even a nerd can be an alpha within a group of people.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> I'm talking about in most of the episodes of the show, not just the movie. *Even the purest alpha cannot be alpha all the time.
> *
> Actually, from your Banzinga comment, even Sheldon from the Big Bang theory is the alpha of that nerd group. He tells people what to do and they usually follow him. Yes even a nerd can be an alpha within a group of people.


Ok Kripke....You're the Alpha....whatever..


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

Leonard is the weakest beta of the group. He wasn't man enough to keep Penny.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> Leonard is the weakest beta of the group.


with the hottest girl.....or wait....GIRLS....Penny, Preya...thats roseanne chick don't count...but the comic book girl...and korean girl..OH! and the chick that had 99 ways to rip your nuts off...OH!! and the doctor chick that Howard wanted and crashed the mars rover...


I'm sorry, but this is such a waste of time....

See-ya round Gamma...


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

geek down said:


> with the hottest girl...
> 
> I'm sorry, but this is such a waste of time....


As I said, he wasn't man or alpha enough to keep her. Instead, he spends most of his time moping around wishing they were still together while she bangs alpha guys who are stupid. Pathetic.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

So we have a Trekkie teaching us how to be an Alpha.

Next up: Sumo Wrestlers teaching Ballet.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Darth vader trumps all!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

5 Fictional Alpha Males That Would Steal Your Girlfriend - The Social Lifestyle | The Social Lifestyle


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

The common denominator between every one of them is confidence . The list forgot Bruce Wayne. He'd trump them all.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

geek down said:


> Ok Kripke....You're the Alpha....whatever..


swoon and sigh I looooooove Leonard Oh the things I could do to that smart sweet nerdy man 

I lost interest in the show bc I got sick of them writing scripts that made the "hot" girl treat him like complete crap for ratings bc loving him and being sweet to him wouldn't please the viewers


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I am a closet treky and I have to disagree with your comments about alpha's.

Picard was obviously alpha.
Riker obviously alpah. He was the first officer he HAD to follow orders as did Picard when given orders from the Admirals.
Worf was another obvious alpha. No beta in the guy.
Dr. Beverly Crusher was alpha. Very very very Alpha.
Leforge = beta
Data = robot. (no alpha or beta)
Troi = beta

Q = Omnipitent

The most alpha personality in all of the star trek series IMO? Janeway. Knew when to lead, when to let others take the lead.

Dont confuse following orders with being beta. As for BBT. None of those super geeks are alpha.

You're also confusing leadership with alpha. They are not interchangable constructs.

@Gaia nothing beats Vader. Nothing.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> swoon and sigh I looooooove Leonard Oh the things I could do to that smart sweet nerdy man
> 
> I lost interest in the show bc I got sick of them writing scripts that made the "hot" girl treat him like complete crap for ratings bc loving him and being sweet to him wouldn't please the viewers


Well, love....I'm 25% Leonard....60% Sheldon though...15% Howard and 5% Raj...



....Oh the things you could do to this smart sweet geeky man...


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

sinnister said:


> I am a closet treky and I have to disagree with your comments about alpha's.
> 
> As a closet trekky you should be ashamed of yourself for not mentioning KIRK!!!!
> 
> ...


Vader....Yeah he's great and all, but if you read the rise and fall of Vader AND the book on Obi-Wan when he was training anakin, you can see just how insecure and unsure of himself he was. I know, when Anakin fell, he was no longer anakin and became vader...I get that, HOWEVER, this man was so insecure and very,very depressed. Later in his morphology to machine, he began to lose his force sensitivity. He couldn't control his palace like he used to. As more of his body was cut away, he became more and more distant to everyone in his command, and even his master. 

It was that insecurity that caused him to come to his son's aid...

..The entire Anakin story is the story of Achilles....

If you want a REAL bad ass Alpha Sith, look EXAR KUN!!! or Marka Ragnos...

..Of course *Darth Sideous* DID kill the greatest sith scholar of all time, turn the greatest jedi general, turned millions of worlds, raised two armies to compete with each other and kill trillions..Put the galaxy into turmoil and rule it with an iron fist...Turned the senate against itself to invoke war...profited from both sides and created a weapon of ultimate destruction..Destroyed more than one planet with it...Instituted an inquisition that killed the entire jedi order with just one command....After all..Vader was Sideous' little b!tch..

..OH!! and I'm afraid the deflector shields will be quite operational when you friends arrive...

Vader was a shadow of Anakin...Vader's strength was a shadow of Anakins...When Anakin lost his humanity, he lost his power..After that, his machine parts gave him the strength and his force powers were not as good as before...Plus his saber skills were lacking...Notice how vader fights vs. how Ani fights...totally different style..


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

geek down said:


> Vader....Yeah he's great and all, but if you read the rise and fall of Vader AND the book on Obi-Wan when he was training anakin, you can see just how insecure and unsure of himself he was. I know, when Anakin fell, he was no longer anakin and became vader...I get that, HOWEVER, this man was so insecure and very,very depressed. Later in his morphology to machine, he began to lose his force sensitivity. He couldn't control his palace like he used to. As more of his body was cut away, he became more and more distant to everyone in his command, and even his master.
> 
> It was that insecurity that caused him to come to his son's aid...
> 
> ...


Ooops yes how could I forget Jim! Kirk was awesome. Never afraid to throw down with an alien.

In terms of Vader I was speaking more to his overall sense of stile. The cape is sweet.


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Ooops yes how could I forget Jim! Kirk was awesome. Never afraid to throw down with an alien.
> 
> In terms of Vader I was speaking more to his overall sense of stile. The cape is sweet.


STYLE?!?!? You want style?!?!
Darth bane...Encased in ultralisk mullusks that make his body inpervious to anything..even sabers...









Style man...

And as for kirk... Its ok... It not like he's been in the media lately...not like there is a new movie coming out or anything...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

This thread has officially derailed. But I like the derail.

Nothing like alpha geek analogies on a Friday.


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

How are my alphas-in-training doing? Live alpha and prosper. V


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

:rofl:


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Adex said:


> How are my alphas-in-training doing? Live alpha and prosper. V


I'm doin great. I just got me Mr to get me a beer and I'm kickin back with the pizza I decided we would eat while he vacuumes, I also told him his bum did look big in those shorts. I'm prospering left right and centre. 

Ahhh this is the life. :toast:


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## Adex (Aug 1, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I'm doin great. I just got me Mr to get me a beer and I'm kickin back with the pizza I decided we would eat while he vacuumes, I also told him his bum did look big in those shorts. I'm prospering left right and centre.
> 
> Ahhh this is the life. :toast:


Well it works both ways. If you have your husband trained to the point where it's a role reversal and you're the alpha, you'll have it made.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> I'm doin great. I just got me Mr to get me a beer and I'm kickin back with the pizza I decided we would eat while he vacuumes, I also told him his bum did look big in those shorts. I'm prospering left right and centre.
> 
> Ahhh this is the life. :toast:


:rofl:

Hope you didn't thank him for the beer?


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

Adex said:


> How are my alphas-in-training doing? Live alpha and prosper. V


Seen an old girlfriend at the mini-mart today while I was gassing up. I broke up with her about 6 months ago..

She sees me and walks over.

She say "Wow, you look great!"

I say, "Yeah, I know.." and walk away..:smthumbup:


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## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> :rofl:
> 
> Hope you didn't thank him for the beer?


Not a chance, and no I love you until he's said it 20 times- so take that! :lol:


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> Not a chance, and no I love you until he's said it 20 times- so take that! :lol:


Yeah... And only then if he brings you a 'sammich' first


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