# I am not your spouse anymore, therefore I won't...



## EnjoliWoman

I'm sure others have this same thought. What is it your spouse still asks you do to and you, in turn, are amazed they think you still need to do that for them?

Ex has asked for the past two days if he has kiddo on her birthday. Am I his f-ing secretary? Can he not keep up with his OWN freaking calendar? If being with her means so much (which it should the way he moans and groans about it) then wouldn't he keep up with every moment the court order allows? Two years ago he completely forgot. 

The REAL pisser is he is having KIDDO ASK. First time I told her "I'm not sure" (but sure I know) then the next day she asked a second time and I replied "Doesn't your Dad have a copy of the order?" to which she shrugs (of course he does - but I'd be happy to email a copy) and tonight she asks again. 

I know he has her this year and I don't want to get in trouble for not meeting him if he *does *check and assumes I'll be at the meeting place. And if I randomly have her get in the car to go to the meeting place only to find he's not there she'll be mad that I knew and wouldn't tell her and intentionally set him up. So I have no real choice but to finally say "It really isn't my place to keep up with the times your Dad has with you but since you are the one stuck asking and it's not your fault he keeps having you ask, I'll check." I get out the order, read the pertinent part, say yes he has you from X o'clock to Y o'clock. It took me all of 60 seconds to pull the file and read it.

I am not his wife, secretary, paralegal, etc. Check your own damn calendar. Making sure he visits when the order says he can is NOT my job. That part of the order has been the same for TEN FREAKING YEARS. Even years he has her during the evening on her birthday so he can take her to dinner and give her his gift(s).

GRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrr. Azzhole.


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## Cleigh

I know what you mean! My ex kept asking me when HIS family's birthdays were so I ended up printing off a calendar for him. So useless. I have been stuffed around for the last three years, the first year I pretty much let him have the kids whenever but then he started canceling and changing his times so went to mediation. he still stuffs me around because he didn't read the agreement before signing. now he has decided he doesn't want this kids as much as we first planned. .. im just waiting for him to change his mind again and cut back once again on when he can fit the kids into his new life.


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## EnjoliWoman

Ha! He just told her he made plans and will be gone all day so asked if can he see her the evening after (yes). He made PLANS ON HER BIRTHDAY. Plans that didn't include her! Geeez.


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## Cleigh

And father of the year goes to. .. lol My ex does the same. He was meant to have the boys over the oldest birthday last year. told me he was busy with work and couldn't do it. Turned out he went away with his new gf. Back then he was only seeing them once a month. so the kids missed out that month. Some parents are just pathetic. The kids deserve better


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## mablenc

EnjoliWoman said:


> Ha! He just told her he made plans and will be gone all day so asked if can he see her the evening after (yes). He made PLANS ON HER BIRTHDAY. Plans that didn't include her! Geeez.




Hi, wow he's a big a hole with poo on too!


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## 2galsmom

I think you honest communication with her is the ONLY way to go EnjoliWoman. You are not a person who badmouths your ex or your child's father, you are a good person.

I had to deal with this and complete honesty without jading the facts or interjecting opinion is how I deal with it. 

I do not listen to some experts that tell you to explain the other parents behavior to sooth the child. HOW THE HELL DO I KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN HIS HEAD? He has in fact done unexplainable things that not even I, a master of excuses, diplomacy and bullSH*T can explain. Should I tell people he loves them when he beat up their mother in front of them? Should you be left to explain why he made appointments on her birthday, should you say look at the bright side? He is celebrating your birthday, expect this from men and be adaptable to the terms they dictate. Such and such loves you so very much but he has issues, important clients perhaps, but not really I don't mean issues as that would be parental alienation, he must have had a good reason - STOP!


"Kids, I am taking you to the park for your court mandated visitation at 9 a.m. If he fails to show up, I have done my part. I am not responsible for him nor can I control his behavior. I do the best I can, he is responsible for his choices not you. You are not to blame if he does not show up. You are not responsible for his behavior, nor can you control it. I love you, you are loved."

Why should you bear the brunt of _anything_ if he doesn't show up? Why should you even have that fear? Ideally, it should be a non issue for you. If you don't want to play secretary for him or wife, then why be his publicist and image control coordinator?

So yes! Pull out that file. These are the facts daughter of mine these are the orders. I am not to blame for his actions. Also set up boundaries, the children are not carrier pigeons. I would explain to my kids that when a middleman is used in communication, errors and miscommunications prevail. If it makes you feel uncomfortable when he asks you to speak on his behalf, tell him. Please, do not be afraid to stand up to your father.


It teaches your daughter not to assume the blame for other people's actions which is essential for helping her grow as a healthy person.

You did the right thing. Bravo! Celebrate.


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## ThreeStrikes

EnjoliWoman said:


> I'm sure others have this same thought. What is it your spouse still asks you do to and you, in turn, are amazed they think you still need to do that for them?
> 
> Ex has asked for the past two days if he has kiddo on her birthday. Am I his f-ing secretary? Can he not keep up with his OWN freaking calendar?


A simple "Check your visitation schedule/calendar" would have sufficed, and saved you the emotional drama.

You managed to cover every corner of the drama triangle in your post. But before it became a post, it was a thought process.

One of my biggest challenges is getting off the drama triangle during my inner dialogue with myself. I've gotten pretty good at it in the perceptible world (the "me" everyone else sees), but my inner dialogue needs work.

Here's a link, for readers who are not familiar:

An Overview of the Drama Triangle

Get off the triangle corners. Live in the middle. 2Gals gave some examples of this in her post.

Small things like this won't bother you 

(OK, that's my codependent projection post for the week)


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## Pluto2

Don't even get me going on visitation, one visit in eight months, for 1 and a half days is no parent.
But as to the broader topic, my ex was amazed that I refused to: transfer his prescriptions to another state, 
renew the registration on his vehicle after he moved out of state, take his name off a joint credit card after I assumed the existing debt,
do his taxes, 
buy the kids christmas presents and put his name on them.
He was actually offended that I refused. I get the "but you've always taken care of this before." Go get your gf to do that now-I am not your wife!


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## Jellybeans

My ex and I rarely speak or see eachother anymore. We did not have children and I signed the house over to him so there is really nothing to talk about except for the occasional contact asking how the other is doing and sending well wishes/happy new year's. I realize that is probably an anomaly/considered a godsend by most people who divorce.


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## 6301

The sad part about this is he has your kid speaking for him and that's wrong. The child should be neutral in all of this.

My first wife used to have my daughter call me to ask when I was bringing down the child support payment. 

I finally got pissed and told my EX that the check is at your house between the first and third day of the month and always was and always will be so there is no need for you to have my kid call and ask and it stops now. 

She did it just to irritate me and that she had a nasty streak in her and loved to use the kid as a weapon so when my daughter asked, I told her not to worry about it and changed the subject. Some people just don't know when to let go.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

I got a text from my then-15yo daughter that said, "When would be a good time for dad to call you about your divorce?"

WTF? Who puts a kid in the middle of THAT cr*p? (My Tool of a STBXH!)

I sent an email to STBXH and said, "Let us agree to leave (child) out of the middle of it." He emails me back that HE had NOTHING to do with it...it was ALL HER! Right, a 15-year old is just sitting in her room, texting her friends and thinks, 'Gee! I'll bet Dad would appreciate it if I just find a good time for him to place his agenda before Mom. Yeah, great idea!'

I called 15-yo and told her she should NOT be in the middle of our divorce and that if her dad OR I ever make her feel that way, she should speak right up and tell us so! Then she says, "You should sign the agreement, Mom. Dad told me ALL ABOUT IT and it sounds REALLY FAIR!"

I didn't know whether to LOL or start cussing! Seriously! I told her I really did NOT want to discuss it with her, but that I was NOT going to be railroaded into an agreement that leaves ME with 100% of the personal debt and HIM with 100% of the tangible assets. Fair, my azz! It's only fair in HIS delusional, self-absorbed, narcissistic world where fairies blow 'the world loves, you!' powder up his azz every night while he sleeps!

Sorry, Enjoli, rant over! (Kindred spirit!)
*
Back to the original question:* I am not your spouse anymore, therefore I won't listen to even 3 seconds of you raising your voice to me. Speak decently or shut up and leave me alone!


.


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## Pluto2

Back to the original question: I am not your spouse anymore, therefore I won't listen to even 3 seconds of you raising your voice to me. Speak decently or shut up and leave me alone!


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## 2galsmom

The ex of EnjoliWoman has been diagnosed as a Narcissist. I have read on other family based websites including Out of the Fog that it is important for the child to be educated on what is entailed with Narcissism.

I absolutely agree, there is already a history of parental alienation here and it sounds like your ex has one in the works SlowlyGettingWiser.

Just like spouses in the situation, the truth gets warped and perverted with emotion and they get drawn into crazy.

I saw it in action, "Kids, I want to stay together as a family BUT mommy doesn't want that, could you talk to her and bring her to her senses."

That turned the tide, a week later I was beaten up for standing up for myself and a month later almost to the day I filed for divorce.

It is imperative that children be armed with knowledge and give tools how to deal with such behavior or they will grow up and marry daddy or mommy or at least be spared being used as a tool in the meantime.

I am adding this topic to the list of future blog posts, right after Bento boxes and snow on , how to teach assertive communication!

Everyone speaks for himself or herself, period.*

*Unless you are an attorney/publicist or have hired one.


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## EnjoliWoman

Believe me I am not on the drama triangle. BUT with a narcissist, every single interaction that does not stoke his ego is a flame to his anger.

I initially said I didn't know if it was his year even tho I did, because he needs to take responsibility for his time. But since our daughter is now 15, I also can't just take her to the meeting place without telling her where we are going, (she would text him) nor can I continue to let her be in the middle. 

You have no idea how many times I have tried to tell him to contact ME, not HER. Even the order says all communication needs to be via email and decided ahead of time and presented to her after the fact. He continues to have blatant disregard for both and he doesn't even understand how it is harmful, even after being told by a judge, a custody advocate, a guardian ad litem, a counselor and me (of course I don't count in his world).

My choices - Address it in an email? I'll get a 2-page inflammatory response to which I generally reply "thanks". And generally ti doesn't change anything. He rarely even READS the emails (I do return receipt). 

I could take him to court. He has violated many portions of the order and I have consulted my attorney who says to document via email that I repeatedly ask him to comply so if I DO eventually file contempt charges, I can show I attempted to address it with him before going to court AND to show that if I don't go to court right away, I wasn't complacent and just all of a sudden got a wild hair to drag him in to court.

But so I take him to court for violations, and he is found in contempt? I have paid my attorney $1000 or more for the consultation, communication, hours in the court room and for what? The judge smacks him on the wrist and tells him to start following the order. Which he may or may not do (his track record says he probably won't). So then what? Take him back again? Spend another $1000 and create even MORE animosity?

He is becoming more and more passive aggressive and justifies putting her in the middle as "she needs to be part of the decision"... NO, she does not. She isn't going to be upset if we tell her BTW, plans changed - your mom/dad and I decided to....[fill in change of plans].

I will address it in an email eventually. AGAIN. But not while I'm pissed. I can't control him so I can usually let it go, such as whatever goes on during their time; I don't even ask. But when it affects our daughter and puts her in the middle, I don't like it. And often his behaviors are alienating so I have to choose how I address it. 

I used to get mad at him always being late so now he has HER call me to tell me they are running late coming back because he knows I won't fuss at her over it. Instead I just tell her how I find it very rude to nearly always be late. She even takes the blame saying she was hungry so they stopped for fast food, or she had to use the bathroom so they had to stop on the way. 

I want to savor the next 3 years but part of me can't WAIT until she's 18. I tell her the truth of the matter in a tactful, honest, non-bashing way. Just like I said being late is rude because it is my opinion and is about ALL people, not just him.

Yes, SGW have the same ex - when we met it was amazing the similarities!


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## ThreeStrikes

EnjoliWoman said:


> Believe me I am not on the drama triangle. BUT with a narcissist, every single interaction that does not stoke his ego is a flame to his anger.
> 
> I initially said I didn't know if it was his year even tho I did, because he needs to take responsibility for his time. But since our daughter is now 15, I also can't just take her to the meeting place without telling her where we are going, (she would text him) nor can I continue to let her be in the middle.
> 
> You have no idea how many times I have tried to tell him to contact ME, not HER. Even the order says all communication needs to be via email and decided ahead of time and presented to her after the fact. He continues to have blatant disregard for both and he doesn't even understand how it is harmful, even after being told by a judge, a custody advocate, a guardian ad litem, a counselor and me (of course I don't count in his world).
> 
> My choices - Address it in an email? I'll get a 2-page inflammatory response to which I generally reply "thanks". And generally ti doesn't change anything. He rarely even READS the emails (I do return receipt).
> 
> I could take him to court. He has violated many portions of the order and I have consulted my attorney who says to document via email that I repeatedly ask him to comply so if I DO eventually file contempt charges, I can show I attempted to address it with him before going to court AND to show that if I don't go to court right away, I wasn't complacent and just all of a sudden got a wild hair to drag him in to court.
> 
> But so I take him to court for violations, and he is found in contempt? I have paid my attorney $1000 or more for the consultation, communication, hours in the court room and for what? The judge smacks him on the wrist and tells him to start following the order. Which he may or may not do (his track record says he probably won't). So then what? Take him back again? Spend another $1000 and create even MORE animosity?
> 
> He is becoming more and more passive aggressive and justifies putting her in the middle as "she needs to be part of the decision"... NO, she does not. She isn't going to be upset if we tell her BTW, plans changed - your mom/dad and I decided to....[fill in change of plans].
> 
> I will address it in an email eventually. AGAIN. But not while I'm pissed. I can't control him so I can usually let it go, such as whatever goes on during their time; I don't even ask. But when it affects our daughter and puts her in the middle, I don't like it. And often his behaviors are alienating so I have to choose how I address it.
> 
> I used to get mad at him always being late so now he has HER call me to tell me they are running late coming back because he knows I won't fuss at her over it. Instead I just tell her how I find it very rude to nearly always be late. She even takes the blame saying she was hungry so they stopped for fast food, or she had to use the bathroom so they had to stop on the way.
> 
> I want to savor the next 3 years but part of me can't WAIT until she's 18. I tell her the truth of the matter in a tactful, honest, non-bashing way. Just like I said being late is rude because it is my opinion and is about ALL people, not just him.
> 
> Yes, SGW have the same ex - when we met it was amazing the similarities!


Looks like your D is already developing codependent tendencies to cover for his crappy behavior. Where did she learn that?

Should you take him to court? Absolutely. When you are co-parenting with a Cluster B, you let the court be the Daddy. When he gets charged with contempt, he pays your legal fees. And pays a fine. When he gets held in contempt multiple times, he goes to jail. 

He complies with your court-ordered visitation schedule, or he pays the price. Demonstrate to your daughter how to deal with a PoS like him.

Or

You can keep doing what you are doing. And if you think it will end in 3 years, you are dreaming.


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## 2galsmom

The codependent tendencies of the children is what I take issue with, and that is why I agree with most aspects of what ThreeStrikes is saying.

I don't understand why you are taking her places but not telling her he may be there, he can use that against you Enjoliwoman. 

"Your mother took you to the park? She knew, she knew it was my day and she took you and is not honest with you, not honest like I am 15 year old CHILD. She ws hoping I would not be there, BUT we are able to get together the day after your birthday and it will be even more special, she cannot stop us, she is so controlling, unlike I am! Why I am happy supper honest parent! See!"

She has to be aware of what a codependent is so she can avoid being one, and unless you work with them and with a counselor if you have the means, they get sucked into the games.

Do you teach your kids not to be racists? Yes? Do you teach your kids to be good to others? yes? then teach them to be good for themselves and have BOUNDARIES. Then teach your children not to be codependents and keep their trust. 

(My co-dependent projecting although I have not had a third party counselor verify me as a codependent.)

Her father is once again, per the pattern, not recognizing or respecting boundaries.

Here is where I depart from ThreeStrikes, as for contempt of court, the courts are likely do nothing about this, a slap on the wrists is what they BOTH will get. Some attorneys where I live will not take you on if that is your goal. I was told by a famous attorney that contempt of court is nothing. I believe that after what I have seen. Even when people are sentenced jail time for battery, the courts let them out of it due to the backlog in the jails and courts and it is no big deal, at least where I live.

In this case, I see EnjoliWoman's point. A judge is likely to say, "Meh, he saw the kid the next day, what's the big deal? can't you communicate like adults- get out and pay the court fee after you re-read the original agreement. Both of you grow up."

Please, educate her. There are websites with posts on how not to raise a codependent person who will seek attention from toxic partners when they grow up, and be attracted to the charismatic narcissist. You can't control what she does at 18 but you can educate her. Teach her what blame shifting is, what gas lighting is all of those lovely morsels that do so much damage to a naive soul.

You are lucky, you have documentation and a third party diagnosis of his disorder, so no need to worry about bashing.

The Narcissistic Father | Psychology Today


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## arbitrator

EnjoliWoman said:


> *The REAL pisser is he is having KIDDO ASK.*


*High time, Enjoli, that you have a "Come to Jesus Meeting" with him, and tell him that if he wishes to convey anything to you, that not to even bother using your child as an intermediary! Rather for him to just bring it right to you and to nobody else!*


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## Ceegee

arbitrator said:


> *High time, Enjoli, that you have a "Come to Jesus Meeting" with him, and tell him that if he wishes to convey anything to you, that not to even bother using your child as an intermediary! Rather for him to just bring it right to you and to nobody else!*



You can't have a come to Jesus moment with someone who believes they are the messiah. 

All you can do is teach D how to recognize these behaviors and use the system as much as you can. 

You can't explain things to him so save your breath and your sanity. Remind him when he crosses a boundary that you're not ok with it.


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## browneyes74

I have a similar ex.. 

I do NOT have to get your signature notarized (in fact, I CAN'T, dumba**, as it's YOUR signature)

I do NOT have to text you about all school events and functions and when the kids are off school, seeing as how I PUT YOU ON THE SCHOOL EMAIL LIST! (his reply? You know I don't read all my emails.. didn't go over very well with the mediator)

I do NOT have to accommodate your party schedule so you could party whenever you feel like it and see the kids when you have nothing else going on.. 

And.. I do NOT have to care about you anymore, ask how you are, how's your various medical issues going on.. and it doesn't mean that I'm an evil witch, it means that I am NOT your wife, girlfriend or best friend anymore.. especially seeing as how you moved in with another woman before we even filed for divorce.. Let HER care about you now.. That's HER job, not MINE... 

But I'm not bitter, not at all


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## EnjoliWoman

ThreeStrikes said:


> Looks like your D is already developing codependent tendencies to cover for his crappy behavior. Where did she learn that?
> 
> Should you take him to court? Absolutely. When you are co-parenting with a Cluster B, you let the court be the Daddy. When he gets charged with contempt, he pays your legal fees. And pays a fine. When he gets held in contempt multiple times, he goes to jail.
> 
> He complies with your court-ordered visitation schedule, or he pays the price. Demonstrate to your daughter how to deal with a PoS like him.
> 
> Or
> 
> You can keep doing what you are doing. And if you think it will end in 3 years, you are dreaming.


He can barely afford to pay his support. He's already a payment behind. Getting him to pay my attorney, even if it's ordered will only put him further behind on support.

I think she's seen how I deal. Usually it's very cut and dried, I refer to the order and I leave her out of it. I can vent here and say what I'd LIKE to say sometimes but I don't.

She learned her behavior from him. I left when she was four; he's had 11 years to teach her; most of them quite formative. An NPD person will make the child feel guilty - he makes her responsible for his happiness. The minute she doesn't side with him he shuns her and as a child she naturally loves her dad so capitulates. Fortunately with some countering by me, she has turned into a much stronger individual. She says/does what she has to with him to keep the peace but with me she is herself. Example - she will NOT say "I love you" on the phone to me if he is in the room. She is made to feel guilty for loving me; yet she feels safe to say that to him when she's on the phone when I'm in the room. Or maybe obligated; time will tell.

Our dynamic is the stuff psychologists are made for. Our court-ordered (by my petition) psych eval was the best thing I ever did. I was not found to be co-dependent - not anymore. I'd say that ended a few years after I left. I am not a victim, or a persecutor (boy I could be if I were so inclined) nor am I the bully.

And yes, it will MOSTLY end at 18. I have absolutely no reason to be part of that dynamic. I will attend graduations, weddings, etc. and not engage. I can let him have his relationship with her and it does not interfere with mine but I no longer have to cooperate with him at all.

Cannot share the order with her. It is written in the order and I agree it should not be except visitation schedule, but when she turns 18 I am sharing the order and the results of the psych evaluation and will answer all questions honestly.


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## firebelly1

This isn't exactly the same category, it's more like "I used to be your wife, so..." but after my stbxh asked for a divorce, he used to want to tell me about the women he was dating like I was his buddy. I've had to say, "I realize we aren't a couple anymore and we've agreed to be 'friends' but we're not that kind of friends."


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## 2galsmom

EnjoliWoman said:


> He can barely afford to pay his support. He's already a payment behind. Getting him to pay my attorney, even if it's ordered will only put him further behind on support.
> 
> I think she's seen how I deal. Usually it's very cut and dried, I refer to the order and I leave her out of it. I can vent here and say what I'd LIKE to say sometimes but I don't.
> 
> She learned her behavior from him. I left when she was four; he's had 11 years to teach her; most of them quite formative. An NPD person will make the child feel guilty - he makes her responsible for his happiness. The minute she doesn't side with him he shuns her and as a child she naturally loves her dad so capitulates. Fortunately with some countering by me, she has turned into a much stronger individual. She says/does what she has to with him to keep the peace but with me she is herself. Example - she will NOT say "I love you" on the phone to me if he is in the room. She is made to feel guilty for loving me; yet she feels safe to say that to him when she's on the phone when I'm in the room. Or maybe obligated; time will tell.
> 
> Our dynamic is the stuff psychologists are made for. Our court-ordered (by my petition) psych eval was the best thing I ever did. I was not found to be co-dependent - not anymore. I'd say that ended a few years after I left. I am not a victim, or a persecutor (boy I could be if I were so inclined) nor am I the bully.
> 
> And yes, it will MOSTLY end at 18. I have absolutely no reason to be part of that dynamic. I will attend graduations, weddings, etc. and not engage. I can let him have his relationship with her and it does not interfere with mine but I no longer have to cooperate with him at all.
> 
> Cannot share the order with her. It is written in the order and I agree it should not be except visitation schedule, but when she turns 18 I am sharing the order and the results of the psych evaluation and will answer all questions honestly.


Well good luck. I know it is not appropriate to discuss certain things with young children, but at 18 she needs to know. Too bad you can't help her now at age 15. It would be a relief and a help as it was to the rest of us that saw the phenomenon and confused decoded on paper by people outside the relationship.

Ceegee is right, WASTE OF TIME. They just use such meetings as a bothersome attempt to hook you back into their - whatever you want to call it - "world" which is why I wonder why all the calls re: scheduling.

They can just stop paying EnjoliWoman, you are wise. Save your time and money and do not take the chance you will get a biased judge. Such parents stop paying and the court does little to collect, when wages are garnished many of them stop working, as they are willing to "win" at any cost.

I know more than three cases where this has occurred. You would get stuck paying the court fees as the responsible party. 

Insane.


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## stillhoping

Could you share a Google calendar or something like that? At least then, you could just refer him to the document? And your daughter could have access to it as well. I am at least grateful my ex waited til our kids were in their 20's. Although, the down side of that is that the kids were blown away and are struggling with how to manage all this stuff, new addresses, new girlfriends, shared holidays. Too weird.


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## EnjoliWoman

Bottom line, I was complaining.  I cannot/will not remind him of the schedule. Yes, a birthday is every other year adn he doesn't remember. Personally, I go through the school calendar, gymnastics calendar and the visitation order and put everything on a written calendar and duplicate it on my iPhone so I always know. It's not up ot me to make sure HE knows. Kiddo is too old to play dumb with and sometimes I just have to tell her what the schedule is and then she tells her Dad. 

I'm not going to be sucked, suckered, coerced, etc. into reacting, responding or otherwise engaging. I will address him in emails in a logical, polite manner and I will respond to my daughter in a manner that SHE knows I know the score.

CeeGee, you get it. No "come to Jesus" with the messiah. Greater words have not been spoken! 

But enough about me - your ex's still expect you to know/do/explain so many things they should already 'get' without your micro-managing. Same here.


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## EnjoliWoman

2galsmom said:


> The codependent tendencies of the children is what I take issue with, and that is why I agree with most aspects of what ThreeStrikes is saying.
> 
> I don't understand why you are taking her places but not telling her he may be there, he can use that against you Enjoliwoman.
> 
> The Narcissistic Father | Psychology Today


PS, I'm not taking her anywhere and not telling her he may be there. I was just pointing out I felt backed into a corner by her when she said "Dad wants to know if he gets me for my birthday this year". I don't WANT to answer - he should know; and I dodged it for 2 days hoping he would look it up himself. I can't show up hoping he is there and I can't NOT show up assuming he won't, so I finally had to answer her and she texted him with the answer. He couldn't be bothered to check himself. Hopefully she realizes that.

How insightful:



> How a Narcissistic Father Can Hurt his Son or Daughter:
> 
> Narcissistic parents often damage their children. For example, they may disregard boundaries, manipulate their children by withholding affection (until they perform) *he would make her do acrobatics/gymnastics like a monkey performing on a street corner as a toddler*, and neglect to meet their children’s needs because their needs come first. *Bedtime? What bedtime? That didn't work with HIS schedule.* Because image is so important to narcissists, they may demand perfection from their children. The child of a narcissist father can, in turn, feel a pressure ramp up their talents *(he wanted her to skip a grade because he felt she was superior - she is smart but not brilliant. Same thing with gymnastics - thought she had Olympic potential from level 3 - out of 10 levels; wanted her to audition for television shows and modeling as well)*, looks, smarts or charisma. It can cost them if they fulfill their Dad's wishes - and it can cost them if they fail. No winning here.
> 
> In general, here‘s how a narcissistic father can affect a daughter or son.
> 
> • Daughters of narcissistic fathers often describe feeling “unsatiated” when it to comes to getting what they needed from their fathers. They never got enough and would have to compete with siblings for time with Dad. As a young child, Dad would comment on how beautiful you were. But as you grew older, he would rarely miss out on commenting on weight and attitude. *(no siblings but, remember she's a gymnast - fit and muscular. he sent home GNC dietary supplements for metabolism to help increase metabolism lose weight. Vitamins with caffeine for a 14 y/o. You bet I worry about eating disorders.) *You probably carry these concerns into adulthood, even if you found success. With a Dad like this, it's never enough. With men (or women), you often feel vulnerable and worried you’ll be dumped for someone else. Anxiously avoiding commitment or taking on the narcissistic role are both natural ways to keep relationships safe; it's understandable and self protective.(But, you lose.)
> 
> A daughter needs her dad’s adoration; it validates her and helps her internalize her specialness. Healthy fathers give their girls that gift. You are special and deserve love, for being you.


I will always be trying to compensate for him. I only hope I am enough. I was hoping for a father figure to offset his pressure but I was not successful - I hope MY father has been enough for her.  My Dad is great.


----------



## SlowlyGettingWiser

I'm with you, Enjoli! No father figure to replace STBXTool. Mine does, however, have an AWESOME boyfriend! Really nice kid. When they were up for Christmas I could not figure out why they were gone SO LONG one day. She told me later that night that she'd been crying in the parking lot of a store about how much she missed me. Her boyfriend (although he's only 18yo) told her HE THOUGHT she should move up here with me (6 hours from him).

I thought, 'Wow, this kid genuinely CARES more about her and her happiness than her own father has EVER shown!' How frickin' SAD is that!?! She's contemplating moving up here for college now so she can be near me (we have FUN); she knows she's welcome ANY TIME. The downside is, if she moves up here her narcissistic father will see it as a 'betrayal' and probably cut her out of his life (like both of her half-sisters).

BTW, mine said if she moved up here now, that her dad 'wouldn't have anybody'. His arrogance and ceaseless demands pretty much run EVERYBODY out of his life.

..


----------



## EnjoliWoman

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> I'm with you, Enjoli! No father figure to replace STBXTool. Mine does, however, have an AWESOME boyfriend! Really nice kid. When they were up for Christmas I could not figure out why they were gone SO LONG one day. She told me later that night that she'd been crying in the parking lot of a store about how much she missed me. Her boyfriend (although he's only 18yo) told her HE THOUGHT she should move up here with me (6 hours from him).
> 
> I thought, 'Wow, this kid genuinely CARES more about her and her happiness than her own father has EVER shown!' How frickin' SAD is that!?! She's contemplating moving up here for college now so she can be near me (we have FUN); she knows she's welcome ANY TIME. The downside is, if she moves up here her narcissistic father will see it as a 'betrayal' and probably cut her out of his life (like both of her half-sisters).
> 
> BTW, mine said if she moved up here now, that her dad 'wouldn't have anybody'. His arrogance and ceaseless demands pretty much run EVERYBODY out of his life.
> 
> ..


Awww, that's very mature and unselfish of her boyfriend. No wonder you like him! Yes, she is put in a position of knowing life is better with a responsible, even-keeled parent but also knows if she makes that choice, it's all over. Sad that a kid has to deal with an all-or-nothing relationship. 

That's why I have made it clear I'll fight. At least she can tell her Dad she can't move in with him. He even suggested emancipation but I told her that would happen over my dead body and that I WOULD show up in court opposing it.

She's such a sweet girl. I'm glad she was able to find a boyfriend that did not repeat the dynamics with her Dad. That's what scares me.


----------



## firebelly1

Ceegee said:


> You can't have a come to Jesus moment with someone who believes they are the messiah.


:lol: Amen


----------



## Ceegee

Enjoli, 

I have some mixed emotions with this thread. 

I am the "non-custodial" parent. 

I get my kids every Thursday (overnight) and every 1st, 3rd & 5th weekend. 

This means I don't see them very often after school. 

Much of the correspondence from school is sent home in fliers. Some is sent by email but not all. 

For example, my sons basketball schedule was sent home in a flier. It was not on the schools website and it was not emailed. 

His games are on Thursdays. 

I asked his mother to send me the schedule but age ignored. 

This lead to some real inconveniences. Not just to me but for S12, his brother and sister as well as my family that wanted to go to the games. 

Coparenting requires some communication, as uncomfortable as it may be.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Ceegee said:


> Enjoli,
> 
> I have some mixed emotions with this thread.
> 
> I am the "non-custodial" parent.
> 
> I get my kids every Thursday (overnight) and every 1st, 3rd & 5th weekend.
> 
> This means I don't see them very often after school.
> 
> Much of the correspondence from school is sent home in fliers. Some is sent by email but not all.
> 
> For example, my sons basketball schedule was sent home in a flier. It was not on the schools website and it was not emailed.
> 
> His games are on Thursdays.
> 
> I asked his mother to send me the schedule but age ignored.
> 
> This lead to some real inconveniences. Not just to me but for S12, his brother and sister as well as my family that wanted to go to the games.
> 
> Coparenting requires some communication, as uncomfortable as it may be.


I completely agree, CeeGee. We are ordered to communicate via email but many I send are never read. I ALWAYS send copies of report cards (scan and email) or any information that is not available to him. Her gymnastics schedule and all of her current school dates ARE available on line yet he has only shown up for a couple open houses, never a PTA meeting and selectively some school programs she's in. He does show up for every sporting event but not always on time - in fact he often misses the first event.

He has a copy of the order - he signed it! I have it in hard copy and .pdf as well. He should know whether or not he has her for ANY holiday or weekend in a given year. He shouldn't have to make kiddo ask me. That puts her in the middle and forces me to be his visitation calendar keeper. I think that should be up to him and he shouldn't ask her to pass messages to me. When he's running late he makes HER call saying they are late. I think he should call me himself but he's a chicken.

I think parents should make an effort to keep the other one informed but I shouldn't have to serve it on a silver platter complete with reminders.

Can you talk to the teachers and coaches and ask them to send you, via email, everything that goes home with them? They are getting more and more used to that and also more accustomed to emailing.


----------



## Ceegee

Sounds like you have all your bases covered then. 

Yes, I emailed the coaches about the schedule. Got it two weeks later. 

As far as custody goes, our decree is very vague in a couple of areas. They are written by attorneys after all. If a question is asked it should be answered. 

Punctuality is a matter of courtesy. You know he's not courteous. My X is horrible about this. It used to drive me nuts before D was final. 

Fortunately, I rarely have to depend in her anymore. Except for holidays, all pickups and drop offs are at the school. 

You are 100% correct about involving kids in this crap.


----------



## Mo42

6301 said:


> The sad part about this is he has your kid speaking for him and that's wrong. The child should be neutral in all of this.
> 
> My first wife used to have my daughter call me to ask when I was bringing down the child support payment.
> 
> I finally got pissed and told my EX that the check is at your house between the first and third day of the month and always was and always will be so there is no need for you to have my kid call and ask and it stops now.
> 
> She did it just to irritate me and that she had a nasty streak in her and loved to use the kid as a weapon so when my daughter asked, I told her not to worry about it and changed the subject. Some people just don't know when to let go.


This is absolutely right, and you made it worse by responding to your child--asking if he has a copy of the order. Please do not take part in his idiocy. This is really bad for your child. 

If he continues it, and if your child asks on his behalf again, please tell her to not worry about it and you will work it out with the father. This is not anything the child should be dragged around about. It may not seem to be the case to you, and your child will likely never admit it, but this is really a terrible place for a child of divorce to be. Let her be a kid.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

You are right MO42 I should not have gotten frustrated with him having her be a go-between and responded to her like that. I don't think I asked her but I think I said "well he has a copy" or it could have been "well he has a copy, doesn't he?" not sure which but neither was appropriate. My mind goes blank sometimes when I'm dumbfounded and I can't think of how to respond. That's why I used to need the post-it notes to not engage in the phone calls and have the cheat sheet that said "If you are done talking about X, I'm going to hang up now". I'll repeat to myself "don't worry about it, I'll work it out with him" to create a mental "post-it" and follow up with a text and email to him.


----------



## 2galsmom

Don't be too hard on yourself Enjoliwoman, it is NOT easy to deal with what you are dealing with and no parent is perfect 100% of the time. We anticipate the anarchy and triggers, thus we have rules and our famous "chaos plan."

You are allowed to complain, that is why TAM and this section is here.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho

I haven't read through all the posts here but ... I am quite certain that a divorce is in our near future. We each have our responsibilities but the one thing that my wife rules at is keeping track of dates, events, birthdays, etc. Me ... it goes in one ear and out the other. Now, I can rattle off all the dates that our bills are due or the time/place of all my meetings but ask me when my MILs birthday is and my mind goes blank. It isn't that I can't keep track of that stuff, it's that it isn't a habit ... a habit developed over 21 years of marriage. I'm sure that after a divorce, I'll be asking her to remind me of these things several times over until it does become a habit. On the flip side of the coin, I've been asking my wife for some information I need for taxes related to her school and I think I've had to explain it 3 or 4 times ... and I still don't have it. The first time I explained what I needed all I got was the deer in the headlights look. I'm sure there are things I will have to remind her about as well when she is on her own. It will be an adjustment for both of us after settling into a division of responsibilities after all this time.


----------



## Deejo

As an adult diagnosed with ADD (nearly 20 yrs. ago), time management is a huge problem for me.

I don't expect my ex to maintain my calendar. I own it and apologize if I end up consulting her. I never use it as an excuse. 

But to be honest, being forgetful doesn't really sound like what you're bothered by.

Narcissistic ex-husbands sounds more like what you're talking about.

I dated a woman whose ex had NPD. He used their 8 year old daughter in any way he could to hurt her. He was even remarried with a baby, and would still gouge his ex-wife every chance he got. He was an attorney, so if he didn't like ANYTHING she was doing or said, he'd take her to court, and of course represent himself. He would then look for the means to sue his ex's attorneys.

This guy was quite simply, a right bastard.

Your post reminded me very much of those circumstances Enjoli. His goal was simply to make her afraid to fight him, and he pretty much won.

I also read your initial post wondering if your daughter kept asking you, because perhaps, she was hoping it would fall on your weekend.

Ex and I have a very positive relationship. We co-parent as if still coupled. We both get a lot of joy from our kids, and occasionally we appreciate being able to share that.

I was wincing reading the post, because my kids are very important to me. But I'm also notorious for simply being unaware of time, or completely forgetting something that I even have reminders for.

Have to say that I am amazed that my ex and I treat each other with more respect now, than we did in the waning days of our marriage.

I'm greatly appreciative of that. She's a wonderful mother.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Deejo said:


> As an adult diagnosed with ADD (nearly 20 yrs. ago), time management is a huge problem for me.
> 
> I don't expect my ex to maintain my calendar. I own it and apologize if I end up consulting her. I never use it as an excuse.
> 
> But to be honest, being forgetful doesn't really sound like what you're bothered by.
> 
> Narcissistic ex-husbands sounds more like what you're talking about.
> 
> I dated a woman whose ex had NPD. He used their 8 year old daughter in any way he could to hurt her. He was even remarried with a baby, and would still gouge his ex-wife every chance he got. He was an attorney, so if he didn't like ANYTHING she was doing or said, he'd take her to court, and of course represent himself. He would then look for the means to sue his ex's attorneys.
> 
> This guy was quite simply, a right bastard.
> 
> Your post reminded me very much of those circumstances Enjoli. His goal was simply to make her afraid to fight him, and he pretty much won.
> 
> I also read your initial post wondering if your daughter kept asking you, because perhaps, she was hoping it would fall on your weekend.
> 
> Ex and I have a very positive relationship. We co-parent as if still coupled. We both get a lot of joy from our kids, and occasionally we appreciate being able to share that.
> 
> I was wincing reading the post, because my kids are very important to me. But I'm also notorious for simply being unaware of time, or completely forgetting something that I even have reminders for.
> 
> Have to say that I am amazed that my ex and I treat each other with more respect now, than we did in the waning days of our marriage.
> 
> I'm greatly appreciative of that. She's a wonderful mother.


I'm so envious of good relationships with exes. I'd really hoped against hope for that.

I guess I should feel lucky he dropped out of law school! The only way his NPD benefited me was he overestimated himself and underestimated me and the courts. They all saw through him and he was just astounded they all didn't see it his way.

And you are right - if he weren't NPD, used kiddo to get to me, etc. I wouldn't be as annoyed at having to remind him. Also it's been over 10 years since I left and I would think by now he'd have a system in place for keeping up with schedules. Very often I will mention weekend plans and she'll say she's with her Dad the upcoming weekend and I have to correct her if the schedule has gotten out of whack due to holidays or other exceptions. 

But there is always room for improvement and I've tried to take the high road, been honest within appropriate limitations and sought family counseling for her/us so I could be a good parent. I guess no one gets it 100% right, do we?


----------



## Morgiana

I use a shared internet calendar to keep the schedule with my ex, and that is what I sat down with the kids with to lay out the summer schedule. Both where very attentive to what I was telling them, so I believe they really appreciated seeing what their time was going to look like and where they were going to be. I think you said you put your stuff in an online calendar enjoli; is it possible you could just share that with your kid/ex to stop the question even before it it asked?


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Morgiana said:


> I use a shared internet calendar to keep the schedule with my ex, and that is what I sat down with the kids with to lay out the summer schedule. Both where very attentive to what I was telling them, so I believe they really appreciated seeing what their time was going to look like and where they were going to be. I think you said you put your stuff in an online calendar enjoli; is it possible you could just share that with your kid/ex to stop the question even before it it asked?


Nice suggestion (No mine is a paper calendar tho this year I went digital on my iPhone). I'm so freaking stubborn, tho. After all he's done I don't want to make life easier for him. I know that isn't a good attitude. This would benefit our daughter, tho. Hm. Must reconcile feelings of helping her vs. NOT helping him. Or I could put in HER iPhone or sync calendars... hmmmm


----------



## Morgiana

EnjoliWoman said:


> Nice suggestion (No mine is a paper calendar tho this year I went digital on my iPhone). I'm so freaking stubborn, tho. After all he's done I don't want to make life easier for him. I know that isn't a good attitude. This would benefit our daughter, tho. Hm. Must reconcile feelings of helping her vs. NOT helping him. Or I could put in HER iPhone or sync calendars... hmmmm


Think of it like this: you would be able to tell him every freaking time he asks, www.calendar.com/twatwaffle-reference. And d can just tell him the same thing or look it up herself if she wants. You have removed another thing for him to interact with you over.


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## 2galsmom

You are not stubborn EnjoliWoman, it is the way to go: no comments, no codependent suggestions on how a grown adult should organize their events, no calendar. End of Drama Triangle.

When you work out the calendar it will be something else "reasonable" for him to contact you about and for him to blame you for when things go wrong. Hey you know, I was talking to EnjoliJr. and well she thinks you and I should make up, let's go to a gymnastic meet for her, you want to be a good mom right?

NO CONTACT!

Non-nacissist ex totally different story and that goes in another thread.


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## Deejo

Ex and I use a Google Calendar, we both have access to it and can modify.

If your daughter is a teen, you could share one with her, which in turn she could show to her father if he's being a dope.


----------



## Rainbow_Dazed

Our separation is still fresh (I moved out three months ago), but so far I've had to draw a strict line with her talking about her work. She struggles with it a lot and I used to listen to her worries a lot. Now I told her that those worries are no longer my concern and in the future I only with the hear about things that affect our child (like if her schedule at work changes or if she gets fired or something). 

Saying that felt so good. So good.


----------



## 2galsmom

I just discovered this book EnjoliWoman, perhaps it will help you as well.

Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist, How to End the Drama and Get on With Your Life, by Margalis Fjelstad, PhD. It is published by Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, Inc.
ISBN 978-1-4422-2018-8 and ISBN 978-1-4422-2019-5 (electronic)


You know what I think? I think if an adult can bake their own cookies as posters have put it in other threads, then he can mark his own calendar as well.


----------



## firebelly1

Stbxh blew out his knee on Sunday skiing. He starts texting me things like "I can't walk. No one here to take care of me. I don't know what I"m going to do." Here's me: awwwwwww. Poor boo boo. I guess that's what happens when you choose bachelorhood over marriage. (In my head.) 

Seriously? He asked me for a divorce not once but twice and he has the balls to try and gain my sympathy and help? Um, no. Big boy pants.


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## Morgiana

I had an incident in the past week as well.... "I locked myself out of the house, if you are around, can you please drive over (teenage kid) to unlock the door for me... And I did... *sigh*


----------



## firebelly1

Morgiana said:


> I had an incident in the past week as well.... "I locked myself out of the house, if you are around, can you please drive over (teenage kid) to unlock the door for me... And I did... *sigh*


I know - if I weren't 800 miles away I'd probably be over there doing something for him cuz I really am a softie. Thank god I have this excuse.


----------



## Freak On a Leash

Wow, I'm reading this thread and thinking how really glad that I have NO reason to deal with my ex on a regular basis. No custody agreement. No legal obligation to pay for or get support. Nothing. 

When my son turned 16 I called my son up and said "I'm taking you out for the day, what time is good?" He told me when to come, I picked him up, took him and out and had a nice time with him. His father did the same at a different time. The boy made out quite well getting two meals out and two sets of presents. 

My son has always called the shots. When we got divorced he was 15 and we felt no need to formalize anything with regards to visitation. When he lived with me, he decided when he wanted to visit his dad, called him and his father came over and picked him up. Now that he went to live with his father, he now decides when to see me or I call him and then we make arrangements and I pick him up.

My ex and I have minimal contact. The last time we actually discussed anything other than texting each other was this past December, when we decided that our son would live with him instead of me. Since then we've exchanged texts a few times, when our son needs something. Lately it's my son who contacts me when he needs things. I just text my ex what's going on and keep him updated as to when I'm picking him up and what my plans are with our son. Haven't talked to him in person since last May. 

No contact=peace of mind. 

Personally I wouldn't worry about the visitation schedule with regards to your ex and your daughter. It's up to your ex husband to make the effort to see his daughter. If he doesn't want to spend her birthday with her then it will soon become apparent to your daughter what kind of father she has. 

Why should you care what he does or doesn't do? If he blows off your daughter than you can step in and be there for her. That will make much more of an impact then wringing your hands and getting all involved about something you have no control of anyway. 

At this point, at 15, she can communicate to her father her needs. If he's as big a jerk as you say he is, then she'll figure it out soon enough. 

At 15 she's on the cusp of living her own life and not really caring one way or another. Soon she'll be spending her birthday with her friends anyway. Trust me on this.  

Sounds like you are creating more problems for yourself then you need to. 

If my ex were to call me and "ask" for anything I'd just laugh at him. I could really care less what he wants or needs unless it concerns our son. Other than that, he's a nonentity.


----------



## tacoma

EnjoliWoman said:


> Nice suggestion (No mine is a paper calendar tho this year I went digital on my iPhone). I'm so freaking stubborn, tho. After all he's done I don't want to make life easier for him. I know that isn't a good attitude. This would benefit our daughter, tho. Hm. Must reconcile feelings of helping her vs. NOT helping him. Or I could put in HER iPhone or sync calendars... hmmmm


If your ex has an iPhone as well or an iPad the calendar can be shared Between you.

Barring that make a google calendar online, it can be shared and synced to your iPhone calendar.

The Google calendar is a better bet as it will allow you to make multiple calendars so you can make one just for the things that pertain to your Ex and share it.

Just FYI


----------



## EnjoliWoman

He doesn't have an iPhone - not sure what it is... kiddo does but he won't let her have it when she's with him. (Long story/power struggle of his + paranoia.)

But currently there isn't anything that either a) isn't in the order and he's an adult - he can keep up with it just like I do; b) isn't on the school web site and he can check it just like I do.

If he won't check his email, I doubt he'll check a calendar. Remember, as a narcissist, he assumes everyone should make things convenient for him and he shouldn't have to suss out this information.

For normal people who actually CO-parent, vs. the parallel parenting plan we have, I think those calendars are GREAT.


----------



## Wolf1974

Therefore I am not your mr fix it. 

Even three years out my x will call me when she is in an accident, she is a terrible driver, or car problem or for directions. Seriously incompetent. Last time she called cause she had a flat tire after she came out of work. And asked if I would come and change it for her........well I won't type what I said to her that day but I doubt she will ever call with that request again :rofl:


----------



## Rowan

I am not your spouse anymore, therefore I won't...discuss the relative merits of your getting a vasectomy. 

He refused to get one when we were married, even though neither of us wanted another child, hormonal birth control was extremely difficult for me, and I have a history of not doing well with surgeries. Now, 6 months later, he sends me an email asking me ("as a friend who knows [him] well") if I thought a vasectomy was a good idea. 

Seriously? :wtf:


----------



## EnjoliWoman

Just... wow.


----------



## Deejo

Should have gone with: "As your friend, I think you should hedge your bet and go for castration."


----------



## DoF

OP

You sound very bitter.

Your child is watching/learning from you. So your bitterness will transfer to her.

Your husband's communication through your child should've been simply dealt with differently.

"Sweetheart I will talk to your father"

> call him and tell him how it is

Here he is, trying to improve (clearly learned his lessons) and be a better father and you continue to throw court order in his face and be bitter about things.

I think you need to be more optimistic about this and embrace it.

Also, just because something is legal/law, doesn't mean it's RIGHT. We all know our justice system is completely screwed up. 

Waving papers in his face can EASILY make him go back to his old ways.......

In the end, it's your child that suffers.

Not cool


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

This is a venting thread. You vent on venting threads. I wouldn't judge that what is expressed here is what is expressed to her daughter. I'd suggest that venting it here, is probably a lot healthier than letting it spill out into her real life.


----------



## esrum1

Here's one . . . I am currently paying the ex wife alimony. Settlement language indicates that alimony ends when she relocates out of state, which is happening on Sunday, March 29.

She called me just this last week to ask if I would be willing to pay alimony in April so that she can get established after the move . . .

With my daughter's comfort in mind, I fell on my sword and agreed to one additional month of alimony.

Oh, but there were so many other things I SO wanted to tell her, like, "hey, call Kyle (posOM), isn't he supposed to be supporting you now?"


----------



## Freak On a Leash

EnjoliWoman said:


> But currently there isn't anything that either a) isn't in the order and he's an adult - he can keep up with it just like I do; b) isn't on the school web site and he can check it just like I do.
> 
> If he won't check his email, I doubt he'll check a calendar. Remember, as a narcissist, he assumes everyone should make things convenient for him and he shouldn't have to suss out this information.
> 
> For normal people who actually CO-parent, vs. the parallel parenting plan we have, I think those calendars are GREAT.


So there you go! Be a PARALLEL PARENT. I like that! In a perfect world, coparenting is what you want to do but this isn't a perfect world. 

When you are dealing with someone who is NOT "normal", not operating with all cylinders firing then you can only do what you can do. Let him take care of his own business and you attend to yours. It's all you can do really. You do your thing and let him do his. Your daughter will figure it out, trust me. 

_*God grant me the serenity 
to accept the things I cannot change; 
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference. *_


----------



## Pluto2

EnjoliWoman said:


> He doesn't have an iPhone - not sure what it is... kiddo does but he won't let her have it when she's with him. (Long story/power struggle of his + paranoia.)
> 
> But currently there isn't anything that either a) isn't in the order and he's an adult - he can keep up with it just like I do; b) isn't on the school web site and he can check it just like I do.
> 
> If he won't check his email, I doubt he'll check a calendar. Remember, as a narcissist, he assumes everyone should make things convenient for him and he shouldn't have to suss out this information.
> 
> For normal people who actually CO-parent, vs. the parallel parenting plan we have, I think those calendars are GREAT.


Enjoli,
You've stated that your ex is NPD. As far as I know my ex was not diagnosed with that disorder. He definitely suffers from major recurrent depression/anxiety. I've always believed he has a paranoid personality disorder, but maybe NPD is the way to go. Here's why. Yesterday was one of my D's birthdays. He did not come (he lives in another state), did not call, did not send anything. Ok fine. She had a great birthday with lots of friends and didn't give his absence another thought. Today I'm looking at FB. He is blocked, but I get the feed from a mutual friend who "liked" one of his posts. He posted on his page that his daughter had a birthday. He did not mention her name nor did he post on our D's page. So the birthday wishes were just for him. Sound a little NPD to you?


----------



## Runs like Dog

There are any number of available services for your needs be they lawn, computer, moving heavy things and so forth. I don't know why the washing machine conked out, again.


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## EnjoliWoman

Pluto2 said:


> Enjoli,
> You've stated that your ex is NPD. As far as I know my ex was not diagnosed with that disorder. He definitely suffers from major recurrent depression/anxiety. I've always believed he has a paranoid personality disorder, but maybe NPD is the way to go. Here's why. Yesterday was one of my D's birthdays. He did not come (he lives in another state), did not call, did not send anything. Ok fine. She had a great birthday with lots of friends and didn't give his absence another thought. Today I'm looking at FB. He is blocked, but I get the feed from a mutual friend who "liked" one of his posts. He posted on his page that his daughter had a birthday. He did not mention her name nor did he post on our D's page. So the birthday wishes were just for him. Sound a little NPD to you?


Possibly. Or needy. Hard to know. Mine was actually professionally diagnosed but he did fit all but one or two of the characteristics often found on the web/psychology pages and articles. It might be worth your looking it up if only to help your daughters - not by telling them your 'diagnosis' but there are lots of sites focused towards kids of NPDers with coping techniques.


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## cantdecide

My XW asks for car advice (repairs, tires, etc.). She always asks through my daughter though so even though I try not to give her what she wants, it makes me look bad if I don't. It's gotten to be minimal now though so I'm not too concerned at this point.

Sort of on subject are requests from her. Last week she asked (wasn't a question, more of demand) for me to bring our daughter back to her house which was her responsibilty. She was out car shopping for our daughter. I was still at work and didn't have time so I just texted "can't, working late tonight". Her response was "try stepping up and being a father". :scratchhead: Really? My daughter spends more time with me than she does my X, I do more for my daughter than my X. My daughter and I have a great relationship. My X is just bitter...............


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## Rowan

_I am not your spouse anymore, therefore I won't..._go out with you.

Last night while my ex was at my house dropping off our son, he asked me if I was still 100% sure that I didn't want to try again. And would I be interested at all in maybe going out sometime? He then tells me how he's been a much better person in the last few months, that I'd be proud of how he's using what he learned in our marriage counseling sessions in his relationship with [Girlfriend], that he's stopped all the flirting and inappropriate texting and relationships with other women since they've been together, that he's done with all the running around and he's really turned himself around and has changed so much....

Yes, I actually had to point out that he can't have changed all that much, since he's in an exclusive relationship with a very nice woman - and he still just asked another woman out on a date! 

:slap:


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## DvlsAdvc8

^ Wow. Just wow. smh.


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## indiecat

Therefore I wont care if.....the mother you never visited died, and now you wear her wedding ring on a chain around your neck for all to see......duh.


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## BeachGuy

Don't let the daughter suffer for his shortcomings. If you telling him or reminding him will result in her having a better birthday...well then. I'm sure it's frustrating for you.

I'm not out of my house yet but I filed over a year ago. Everyone keeps asking me how she's going to survive after I'm gone. I anticiapte she will continue to ask me daily what to do about things; home repairs, the lawn, money, cars, etc. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if she asked me to come over and take care of those things even after we're divorced. Not one bit.


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## esrum1

@cantdecide - I get that one too. All the time. Car repairs, maintenance at her house, computer stuff . . . you know, "manly" $h*t. 

In fact, I got a text today, "hey, if you have a quick second, can I ask you an income tax related question?" I really wanted to text back a photo of both of my middle fingers raised, but instead . . .

***Crickets***

My response has started to become: "If [new posOM] is such a 'man', go ask him . . ."


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## Freak On a Leash

Damn, I'm so glad I haven't talked face to face with my ex since last May. We just text about our 16 year old son and nowadays it's rare because my son is pretty good about communicating his needs to me. If he needs something he tells me and I buy it. If I want to see my son, I just call him up and then pick him up. His father is out of the loop almost completely. We have nothing tying us together at all. 

My son told me that my ex hates that I will only text him (he always hated texting) and I just said "Oh well, must suck to be him." :rofl: It's not like he can DO anything.


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## firebelly1

You were the one that asked for this divorce, therefore you are not allowed to say you miss me. Nothing makes me want to say "F U" more than this.


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## EnjoliWoman

BeachGuy said:


> Don't let the daughter suffer for his shortcomings. If you telling him or reminding him will result in her having a better birthday...well then. I'm sure it's frustrating for you.
> 
> I'm not out of my house yet but I filed over a year ago. Everyone keeps asking me how she's going to survive after I'm gone. I anticiapte she will continue to ask me daily what to do about things; home repairs, the lawn, money, cars, etc. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if she asked me to come over and take care of those things even after we're divorced. Not one bit.


Oh I made sure the birthday was good. I just wasn't going to remind him. He was supposed to get her from 4-8 to celebrate - that means he was to pick her up from school. I called when I knew she would normally be home and she was home - imagine that. So I asked if she wanted to eat out for her birthday and we went to her choice and she had her favorite steak (filet), I told them it was her birthday so they brought a piece of cake with a candle for her to blow out and then back home for birthday presents. 

I had a plan B in case ex didn't remember. My dislike for him isn't so great that I would make kiddo suffer for it.


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## Pluto2

Everyone deserves a little pampering on their birthday! 
What a good mom you are!


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## philglossop

Pluto2 said:


> Everyone deserves a little pampering on their birthday!
> What a good mom you are!


I won't take kindly to having a PM on this site from my XH ending with the words 'love you xxxx'

It makes me eat 4 chocolate bars in an hour.

And respond with an acidic rebuff saying the max I'll accept is Take care.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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