# So this is the SITUATION



## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

I haven't posted on here in a long time and I figured to just rant a bit. My wife and I decided to move to NYC a year ago and we currently reside here. I moved, because she wasn't "happy in California", "bored" as she says. So I made the leap of faith and she promised me so much intoxicating sex that it would blow my mind. Well ladies and gents that never happened, so I'm a bit frustrated. I have an intensely high sex drive and she doesn't have the libido I do. The first few months I saw what NYC was about I was completely shocked (at the women specifically, I love my wife but these women are beautiful), from all over the world. Anyways, basically I catch myself always daydreaming wishing I was single based on my sex life.... but I realize that's just selfish of me and I've never cheated on this woman ever ( caught myself wanting to do that, but never acted upon it) 

I understand so many things are going wrong in this world, but a healthy sex life to me is important. It's my only way to release stress besides basketball. I gave up video games, I don't really do much now a days and do realize reading some books could help. Yes, therapy would help... but when will she get the message that I need her more than she thinks. Mind you I have two kids as well, so that doesn't really help the situation. Anyone else been in this position? Any solutions? Why do I crave sex so much more than she does? Why do I fantasize about other women so much, believe me my head is spinning out of control with not having my priorities straight, but I'm only human. By no means am I a saint. HELP!!0

BTW hope you all are trying to make the best of healthy sexual acts of engagement. Thanks for reading my nonsense.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)




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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

How often are you two having sexual relations?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You're fixating on it because you aren't getting it. There's not enough info here to really help you. Read MMSLP and see if any of that applies to you.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Oops! She lied about what the move would do. How shocking. I have a sure-fire, personally tested solution to vastly improve your sex life: divorce.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

utilitygy415 said:


> I haven't posted on here in a long time and I figured to just rant a bit. My wife and I decided to move to NYC a year ago and we currently reside here. I moved, because she wasn't "happy in California", "bored" as she says. So I made the leap of faith and she promised me so much intoxicating sex that it would blow my mind. Well ladies and gents that never happened, so I'm a bit frustrated. I have an intensely high sex drive and she doesn't have the libido I do. The first few months I saw what NYC was about I was completely shocked (at the women specifically, I love my wife but these women are beautiful), from all over the world. Anyways, basically I catch myself always daydreaming wishing I was single based on my sex life.... but I realize that's just selfish of me and I've never cheated on this woman ever ( caught myself wanting to do that, but never acted upon it)
> 
> I understand so many things are going wrong in this world, but a healthy sex life to me is important. It's my only way to release stress besides basketball. I gave up video games, I don't really do much now a days and do realize reading some books could help. Yes, therapy would help... but when will she get the message that I need her more than she thinks. Mind you I have two kids as well, so that doesn't really help the situation. Anyone else been in this position? Any solutions? Why do I crave sex so much more than she does? Why do I fantasize about other women so much, believe me my head is spinning out of control with not having my priorities straight, but I'm only human. By no means am I a saint. HELP!!0
> 
> BTW hope you all are trying to make the best of healthy sexual acts of engagement. Thanks for reading my nonsense.


A few thoughts from a guy who has been married for over 45 years to the same woman. Yes, be faithful and don't cheat. That is keep it in your pants.

Sex Therapy really helped my wife and myself. Another things that helped me deal with my LD wife was reading the book by Glover called No. More Mr. Nice Guy. What I learned from that book were several things. First that I was codependent on my wife for her to validate me. 

Second that made me very "clingy" and needy" and those were not things that my wife found sexually attractive. 

Third, that I needed to take responsibility for my happiness. For me that meant following Glover's suggestion on Getting a Life. That did not mean becoming a jerk, or ignoring my wife and children. It meant finding time to exercise and do hobbies that brought me happiness, a sense of pride in myself and accomplishment. It also was an opportunity to find out things to do with my children even if my wife didn't want to do them (bike riding with children, going to swimming pools with them, taking walks in parks with them, etc.) 

That also means taking responsibility for your own sexual happiness. If I like being touched, I can get a legitimate massage from a pretty woman. If I really want to orgasm, I can masturbate. If I really want to be held by my wife, I can talk to her and ask her to hold me. 

Far too often, when we get codependent we do one of two things. The first is that we expect our significant other to read our mind and make us happy, without telling what we need. The second is that we do something that Glover calls a "Covert Contract." This is where you tell yourself that hey if I do some more housework, my wife will have sex with me. So you do more housework and you don't get more sex. Then you double down and do even more housework and you still don't get the sex you want. Then you try even harder by doing all the housework and it still doesn't work. Your poor wife is looking at you and saying, gosh that is interesting he is doing his share of the housework FINALLY, but boy does he seem grumpy. I don't want to have sex with a grumpy guy. 

A covert contract is a game you have created in your own mind all by yourself that your spouse has not bought into.


So, talk to your wife, find out what she needs. Tell her what you need to be happy. Negotiate something that is within both your boundaries. If you can't seek help with a sex therapist.

Good luck.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am guessing you never got that promise in writing....tell her that your moving back to ca. Because that promise was never delivered....that she sold you a bill of goods


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> A few thoughts from a guy who has been married for over 45 years to the same woman. Yes, be faithful and don't cheat. That is keep it in your pants.
> 
> Sex Therapy really helped my wife and myself. Another things that helped me deal with my LD wife was reading the book by Glover called No. More Mr. Nice Guy. What I learned from that book were several things. First that I was codependent on my wife for her to validate me.
> 
> ...


Thank you Young at Heart, I will loan that book meanwhile comprehending what it actually means. FYI, my wife works for high-level people and we never have that much time together alone. However, I guess I'm looking for consistency and I want to bring out The Incredible Hulk on aka Bruce Banner. Thank you all for the feedback!!


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

Time to draw a line in the sand, or maybe the sidewalk since your in NYC.


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Always Learning said:


> Time to draw a line in the sand, or maybe the sidewalk since your in NYC.


I tell yah, for those who have kids. For those with kids, know how stressful this can be. Divorce is not the answer. I just can't. Don't have in me, have a 3 & 6 yr old to support.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Not much to say if you don't answer some of the people's questions. What's your sexual frequency with the wife? We talking once per day, once per week, once per month, etc. etc? When people say they have a high drive, it all becomes relative when you are amongst a diverse group like you find here. I'd hate to bust on your wife if she's giving it up daily right now and you're complaining about not getting it 2-3 times in a day. You make a much more sympathetic character if you are luck to get laid once per month. 

So what's the frequency kenneth?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

utilitygy415 said:


> Thank you Young at Heart, I will loan that book meanwhile comprehending what it actually means. FYI, my wife works for high-level people and we never have that much time together alone. However, I guess I'm looking for consistency and I want to bring out The Incredible Hulk on aka Bruce Banner. Thank you all for the feedback!!


I would like to add an enthusiastic "Second!" to Young at Heart's advice.

You and your wife NEED to make time for your relationship. Dr. Harley says that relationships need a minimum of 15 hrs per week quality, one-on-one time to stay successful. Try to work around her work schedule if you can, but if work is constantly in the way, you may have to draw a line and say it's the job or the marriage. If her work is all consuming that she can't have a personal life, it's a bad job. New Yorkers tend to be very type A and work all the time. It's something about that city. 

It sounds like this move was very bad for your marriage, and your wife isn't holding up her end of the deal. Very short-sighted on her part.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think any sort of trade of sex for other things is a bad idea. She may have honestly believed that she would want frequent exciting sex in NY, but the reality is that she doesn't. 

I would ignore her promise, other than to realize that any future promises of sex should be ignored (unless she some day makes good on this one)

That puts you in the situation of being in a relationship with a poor sex life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

utilitygy415 said:


> I tell yah, for those who have kids. For those with kids, know how stressful this can be. Divorce is not the answer. I just can't. Don't have in me, have a 3 & 6 yr old to support.


You can be an excellent father without having to live in the same house, you know that, right? You can fully support your children as a divorced father and have a sex life, to boot.

Remember, children are perceptive and they easily pick up on tension, distance, anger, etc. They also tend to emulate the adult romantic relationship modeled for them by their parents.

I divorced when my kids were 6 and 1 year olds. I remarried shortly after. My kids got to grow up seeing a healthy, loving, demonstrative, affectionate, marriage modeled for them. The girls are now adults. Their own relationships are also healthy, loving, and demonstrative.


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Not much to say if you don't answer some of the people's questions. What's your sexual frequency with the wife? We talking once per day, once per week, once per month, etc. etc? When people say they have a high drive, it all becomes relative when you are amongst a diverse group like you find here. I'd hate to bust on your wife if she's giving it up daily right now and you're complaining about not getting it 2-3 times in a day. You make a much more sympathetic character if you are luck to get laid once per month.
> 
> So what's the frequency kenneth?


I get lucky if we have sex once or twice a month... Yep it's bad. Bust on my wife? Good luck with that one buddy.


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Not much to say if you don't answer some of the people's questions. What's your sexual frequency with the wife? We talking once per day, once per week, once per month, etc. etc? When people say they have a high drive, it all becomes relative when you are amongst a diverse group like you find here. I'd hate to bust on your wife if she's giving it up daily right now and you're complaining about not getting it 2-3 times in a day. You make a much more sympathetic character if you are luck to get laid once per month.
> 
> So what's the frequency kenneth?


I get lucky if we have sex once or twice a month... Yep it's bad. Bust on my wife?? Watch what you say, karmas not pretty. Kaniff


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

utilitygy415 said:


> I get lucky if we have sex once or twice a month... Yep it's bad. Bust on my wife?? Watch what you say, karmas not pretty. Kaniff


I am going to suggest a little more reading for you.

MW Davis the Sex Starved Marriage. (She also recommends Getting a Life, and explaining your needs, becoming less clingy) It is a good companion book for a man in a Sex Starved Marriage. 

Chapman's The 5 Languages of Love. This book is usually found in the religious section of many book stores. That was a surprise because it is not a religious book, but it is used by many church family counseling groups.

What I learned from Chapman, was that my primary love languages were "touch" and "words of affirmation (praise)." My wife's primary love languages were "acts of service" and "quality time." 

My wife and I drifted apart As the mother of two young children she was touched out at the end of the day and the last thing she wanted to do was touch me. I didn't feel loved. She also was too tired to really praise me even when I went out of my way to solve problems for her.

Each day as busy as she was she made a homemade hot dinner. That was her primary act of service to say how much she loved me. To me it was just a meal. She felt I didn't love her. 

Since I wasn't feeling loved at home, I started working more hours to get promoted and be a better provider, or so I told myself. It was actually to get praise from coworkers and my boss. If I worked late and didn't call her and the dinner burned, she was very angry. It was like she had said I love you in her love language and I had slapped her emotionally. She would sometimes yell at me for being late and ruining dinner. I would try to avoid conflict by leaving the table and watching TV or playing with the kids. That would infuriate her even more as dinner was suppose to be quality time in her mind. I was doubly making her feel unloved.

I thought I was being a good provider and getting yelled at for it. She felt I didn't love her any more. If I touched her to tell her I loved her in my love language she told me I was pawing at her. If I praised her to tell her I loved her in my love language, she told me I was buttering her up to get in her panties. If you say to someone I love you and their actions say they don't want your love, you feel very unloved.

We drifted apart like this for years until we had a pretty classic sex starved marriage. Neither of us realized that almost each day or at least several times a week we reached out in our "love languages" to the other only not to be heard and sometimes to be rebuked.

In your first post, you talked about marriage counseling. I would suggest that, but with a board certified sex therapist. I would also suggest you do some serious reading prior to your first sessions and figure out how you are going to change yourself. You can not expect to change her as only she can change herself. You can show her that change is possible. You can further change the dynamic in your relationship (read MW Davis SSM on the art of the 180), so that she will have to figure out if she can still treat you the same or if she needs to change how she treats you. You many like the changed way she treats you, but if you do, provide lots of positive reinforcement.

It took a long time for me to figure out what I had done to hurt my wife and to change the way I treated her, so she started to feel loved again. It also took about 5 months of therapy with a nationally known sex therapist to heal our relationship. But even as expensive as the ST was, it was far less than we would have spent on two divorce attorneys and that ultimately was where things were headed.

Good luck to you.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Miss Independent said:


> ?


LOL, I have no idea. Maybe he didn't get my pun?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

So, are you a house husband out in NY?


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

OP's problem is... genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated. 

Men are told, and believe, women generally like sex. 
Men are told, and believe, women marry men they find sexually attractive and sexually desirable 
Therefore, if a wife doesn’t like sex, it’s his fault. If sex is not a regular part of the marriage, it’s his fault. 
I'm sure OP believes this FALSEHOOD.

Medical issues aside, when a wife constantly makes her husband wait for sex, it's because she isn’t sexually attracted to him. She’ll blame her lack of sexual interest on anything because women who don't find their husband sexually desirable hate being honest about why. So, they create ghosts to chase... if he betters himself, is more romantic, makes more money, goes to marriage counseling, loses weight, attends men’s bible study, etc. his wife’s sexual desire for him will return. 

Again, genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated. It's just happens. Women know within 5 minutes of meeting a guy if she'll have sex with him that day/night. There is no “too busy” or “what will my friends think." There is only her passion and desire and enthusiasm to be naked with him. She will fly across two states, rent a car, drive to an hourly motel, and proceed to have sex with the man she wants.


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> So, are you a house husband out in NY?


 Not at all. I work full-time and she works full-time.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

utilitygy415 said:


> Not at all. I work full-time and she works full-time.


How was your sex life prior to moving? 
Frequency? Quality? Did she initiate? Did she respond?

How is the quality of your current monthly/bi-monthly romps?
Do you feel she is enthusiastic or "doing it" to keep you quiet?


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

One thing I'm learning in general about life is that we're responsible for our own happiness but this happiness is mired in the choices we make and dependent on how these choices will affect the people that we love and that those people are a responsibility to us. After all, what's the totality of one's life but with whom we choose to share that life with.
I thought how funny it seems that for me one of the best thing about a marriage that I was looking forward to was the fact that I would be able to have frequent, hot sexy sex and this was expected and approved upon by society. I even mentioned that to my husband which only got me stared at as if it was alien to him thinking that a woman would require that from a marital relationship.
Having this strange imbalance where I needed my husband physical touch and having been constantly rejected caused me to feel strange about my own physical need.
So, I did what most of us do to find a solution, read books, exercise, attempt to give him what I thought he needed. When none of that work, you're only left with yourself and to prevent resentment from festering you learn to forgive and accept where you are in life.
I stopped requiring my husband to fulfill me. Now that our children don't require me as much because they are becoming teenagers, I'm discovering who I am again and this means finding things that I enjoy doing, so find things to fulfill your life. It's not selfish. 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

maritalloneliness said:


> One thing I'm learning in general about life is that we're responsible for our own happiness but this happiness is mired in the choices we make and dependent on how these choices will affect the people that we love and that those people are a responsibility to us. After all, what's the totality of one's life but with whom we choose to share that life with.
> I thought how funny it seems that for me one of the best thing about a marriage that I was looking forward to was the fact that I would be able to have frequent, hot sexy sex and this was expected and approved upon by society. I even mentioned that to my husband which only got me stared at as if it was alien to him thinking that a woman would require that from a marital relationship.
> Having this strange imbalance where I needed my husband physical touch and having been constantly rejected caused me to feel strange about my own physical need.
> So, I did what most of us do to find a solution, read books, exercise, attempt to give him what I thought he needed. When none of that work, you're only left with yourself and to prevent resentment from festering you learn to forgive and accept where you are in life.
> ...


Wow Very well said. You have brought yourself to the place that I want to always be at. You have summarized what I (as a man) learned from MW Davis book the Sex Starved Marriage and Glover's No More Mr. Nice guy. It is hard for me to continually remind myself that I am responsible for my own happiness and sexuality. Again. great comment. I hope that the OP listens and thinks deeply about your great advice.

You are so right that while marriage is about two becoming one (for most of us) we still have to struggle not to become codependent (especially when it comes to sex), to not loose our individuality that attracted our spouse to us and that gave us the self-confidence to be willing to share our life with another. 

Dr. David Schnarch in his series of books, the Passionate Marriage, the Crucible, and Intimacy & Desire focuses on how two people can grow during their marriage, be true to themselves, self differentiate, self soothe, and negotiate a happy, passionate, sexual marital relationship.

As he points out, marriage is the hardest thing that two people can do, if it is done right. Marriage is not easy and not for the lazy.


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## DoctorSane (Jul 8, 2016)

Stack said:


> OP's problem is... genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated.


Praise Rollo! For any man wondering about how his marriage ended up sexless, why his wife doesn't respond (by doling out sex cookies) to all the good things he does, and why his attempts to "alpha up to save the marriage" are going nowhere, I heartily recommended Rollo's recent four part series "The Reconstruction" at therationalmale.com. Warning: it is going to be a brutal read, you are going to feel sick to your stomach, and you will resist its primary message and the logical implications of that. Sit with it for a while, and use it to reflect on your current relationship, your past relationships, the relationships of others, and your place in the world more generally. Be honest with yourself and then see if you start getting a clear idea of how you need to proceed.

Full disclosure: I have spent five years busting my @$$ to improve myself so that my wife will want to **** me again. MMSLP, NMMNG, MRP, the works. I am a hell of a guy, easily the best version of me yet and I'm still improving. My wife still has zero attraction for me and I'm pretty sure she is totally checked out at this point. Given how much time has passed, I am not optimistic that she will check back in. At this point, though, that's her issue, not mine. The problem is, up until very recently, I was doing it all along for her and the relationship. She knew it and could sense in her bones just how desperate I was for her validation. I told myself all the usual BS about how I was a fast train heading down my own track and she was welcome to jump on the Awesomeness Express if she wanted to but it was no biggie to me if she didn't. I was great at talking about how much I had disconnected the emotional hose and how my life was going to be fantastic either with her or without her. I was lying to myself. All along, I was constantly pinging the environment to see how she (and other women, to be honest) responded to me, what her mood was, whether she was starting to be sexually interested in me again, etc. I was putting myself on the effect end of everything that mattered in my life, instead of being the cause of what matters in my own life. That is extremely weak and no woman will feel desire for a weak man who is obviously blustering about how awesome he is while being a needy, insecure little boy just under the surface.

You want to fix your marriage (i.e., your sex life with your wife)? That's the wrong goal. Fix yourself, for yourself. Period. Full stop. Stop wondering about why your wife has no desire for you and just accept that that's how things are. Your current marriage is dead. It's over and you need to say goodbye to it, however hard that is. Your next marriage may end up being with your current wife. It may even be a legal continuation of the marriage you have with her now, but in reality the marriage itself will be entirely separate from the one you've had up until now. However, until you let go of the marriage and make yourself your own mental point of origin, you will have nothing of value to offer your wife or any other woman you would take up with, and women will just see you as someone who wants and needs things from them. Women need a reason to invest in a man and "I need, I want, I deserve" is about as far as you can get from being a reason for her to invest. I am not saying ignore your wife, treat her like garbage, cheat on her, etc. What I mean is, stop being pushed around by your ego and your momentary wants and needs, and start focusing on what you want your life to be about and start building that. Get something really going in that direction and then assess whether you can have a worthwhile relationship with your wife.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Stack said:


> OP's problem is... genuine sexual desire cannot be negotiated.
> 
> *Men are told, and believe, women generally like sex.
> Men are told, and believe, women marry men they find sexually attractive and sexually desirable
> ...



Oh yes, agreed.


Women use their sexy bodies and sex to get us guys and to marry them. Once married their true selves come out and that sex is now on the sideline.

A lot of it is bait and switch.

The chase is over after getting married so sex isn't as important.

Then us guys jump through all hoops to try and get our ladies in the mood and its something we're now doing wrong.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> Oh yes, agreed.
> 
> 
> Women use their sexy bodies and sex to get us guys and to marry them. Once married their true selves come out and that sex is now on the sideline.
> ...


Some women do this. Not all. Many don't do this at all. Don't let your bitterness over your personal situation cloud your perception of reality. There are just as many wives who are suffering in sexless marriages because their husbands pulled a bait and switch. Men do it, too, just as frequently.


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## Stack (Mar 14, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> Some women do this. Not all. Many don't do this at all. Don't let your bitterness over your personal situation cloud your perception of reality. There are just as many wives who are suffering in sexless marriages because their husbands pulled a bait and switch. Men do it, too, just as frequently.




I learned (5-6 yrs ago) sex 3x-4x week was not the norm for married couples. I was shocked.
I asked my wife "Why?" and she said, "Because I want to. I like you like that."

We attend a church... ~6000 congregation. 
She said if she revealed how often we had sex in her woman's Bible study, our small group or Sunday school, most women wouldn't believe it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Stack said:


> I learned (5-6 yrs ago) sex 3x-4x week was not the norm for married couples. I was shocked.
> I asked my wife "Why?" and she said, "Because I want to. I like you like that."
> 
> We attend a church... ~6000 congregation.
> She said if she revealed how often we had sex in her woman's Bible study, our small group or Sunday school, most women wouldn't believe it.


I learned that too. A couple of years ago, I was on SIM trying to get advice to improve frequency (and quality) of the sex life. After i gave my numbers, I was told - politely for the most part - to STFU and enjoy what I had. Not bad for 80 years old right? (j/k). We have sex every other day except when she's on her period and then it's normally off limits for the first 5-6 days.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I learned that too. A couple of years ago, I was on SIM trying to get advice to improve frequency (and quality) of the sex life. After i gave my numbers, I was told - politely for the most part - to STFU and enjoy what I had. Not bad for 80 years old right? (j/k). We have sex every other day except when she's on her period and then it's normally off limits for the first 5-6 days.


Yeah, that's pretty good!

Something like 20% of marriages are sexless, which is defined at 10 times or fewer per year. My former marriage was sexless, and it was horrible. I would have been stoked to get it even once a week! (Except, by the time things got *really* bad, I couldn't stand him anymore and wanted him nowhere near me...) 

Given my druthers, I'd prefer sex every day (extenuating circumstances aside), but my partner and I don't live together, so that's not happening. And he won't during my period, which makes me a little sad and angsty because I get even hornier during my period.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DoctorSane said:


> ......Be honest with yourself and then see if you start getting a clear idea of how you need to proceed.
> 
> ....I am a hell of a guy, easily the best version of me yet and I'm still improving. My wife still has zero attraction for me and I'm pretty sure she is totally checked out at this point.
> 
> ...


Good advice. One of the hardest NMMNG lessons is how to break the habit of covert contracts, when it comes to your wife. Essentially, it means that what you do is because you want to do it, whether it is improving yourself or doing things for your wife. The key is to have no expectation that it will "get you laid." Wives tend to be able to read their husbands like a book and see if you have any covert contract expectations.


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