# Polygraph Testing



## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

I've been really thinking about it lately. There are several options within reasonable distance. Has anyone actually done this with their wayward partner? Do you put stock in it? How did it work out for you? Can anyone share a detailed experience?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MrsFrench said:


> I've been really thinking about it lately. There are several options within reasonable distance. Has anyone actually done this with their wayward partner? Do you put stock in it? How did it work out for you? Can anyone share a detailed experience?


I have experience with it in regards to criminal law. If that helps at all


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Polys do have a dubious nature when it comes to results. That doesn't rule out that they are effective based on reputation alone. 

Many have confessed sitting outside the office as they prepare to go in. But then, my own WW was willing to go through it, and waste the $500 just to keep her deception going. (I did not actually go through with it.) I still knew she was lying, and wasn't going to waste the money.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

awake1 said:


> Polys do have a dubious nature when it comes to results. That doesn't rule out that they are effective based on reputation alone.
> 
> Many have confessed sitting outside the office as they prepare to go in. But then, my own WW was willing to go through it, and waste the $500 just to keep her deception going. (I did not actually go through with it.) I still knew she was lying, and wasn't going to waste the money.


Why would she have gone through it, if she knew she was lying? Did she fancy she'd beat it?


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> I have experience with it in regards to criminal law. If that helps at all


Sure. How reliable are they, in your experience?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
people can learn to beat lie detectors. There is some information on the web, but the legality of posting that is being challenged by law enforcement. There is a court battle on this now. 

Because of the questionable legality I won't comment on *how* to beat a lie detector. I will say that I do not personally believe that they are reliable.

That said, I would ask for a divorce if my wife asked me to take a lie detector test. I might invent a few juicy stories of adultery first. We don't have kids and and in the jurisdiction where we live, adultery doesn't affect the distribution of property.

But - she has never shown any sign of distrusting me, and I love her for that.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

That is great for you, but my husband has already admitted to being unfaithful, so, my distrust is well earned.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Several here have gone this route. Some get a confession before the test, one got a partial, watered down confession, the BS didn't make her take the test and later learned she bluffed him and it was really much worse. 

One lately got an inconclusive. She didn't fail...............but she didn't pass.

The best way to find one,.it has been suggested, is to find out who local law enforcement uses.

One poster thinks the tester tried to scam him with an inconclusive and said he needed to test her again.

One tester that had come highly recommended, said he could guarantee his results unless the subject was a psychopath. He said the guides to beat a poly weren't true. The govt uses them in security situations. 

If you know he cheated, what are you looking for?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening MrsFrench
What are you hoping to gain? You know he cheated, does it matter exactly when and with whom? If you do not want to be married to a cheater, why not divorce him? Even if the polygraph works, and if it shows that you already know all of the times he cheated, that won't keep him from cheating in the future. 

If you are seeking evidence for a favorable divorce settlement, then you need to talk to an attorney to understand what is required. 





MrsFrench said:


> That is great for you, but my husband has already admitted to being unfaithful, so, my distrust is well earned.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

I'm hoping to get to the bottom of specifics. Last year, I found out that he'd been unfaithful before marriage. We did counseling, full transparency was granted (cell phone tracking, SMS recording, GPS, passwords, you name it), we pushed on and I decided to stay. I'm nowhere near over it, but, things have been better and there has been zero infidelity during our marriage. 

Fast forward to now. I discovered another incident, or possibly incidents, with a different woman. A friend of his who, disgustingly, became a call girl. A year ago, he'd promised he'd told me everything, that it had only been the one person. Given all the circumstances surrounding that, I was able to decide on reconciliation. However, with this new information, and the realization that I've been lied to, I am struggling. 

I realize it won't prevent future cheating. And yes, the details are extremely important. I need to know if there is more/others. I need to know when in our relationship it happened (he "doesn't remember"). I am the kind of person who needs to know everything in order to heal.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

A polygraph is just a measuring instrument like a blood pressure cuff or a thermometer. A good instrument is a good instrument. Some folks are great at wording the questions and interpreting the data and some folks just plain stink at it. If you can find a polygrapher trained by the U.S. military, especially one with a few years of Army CID experience, you have a reliable test. I wouldn't trust the results of someone who graduated from Joe's Bar, Grill and Polygraph Institute.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> A polygraph is just a measuring instrument like a blood pressure cuff or a thermometer. A good instrument is a good instrument. Some folks are great at wording the questions and interpreting the data and some folks just plain stink at it. If you can find a polygrapher trained by the U.S. military, especially one with a few years of Army CID experience, you have a reliable test. I wouldn't trust the results of someone who graduated from Joe's Bar, Grill and Polygraph Institute.


 They are useless except as an interrogation con. They don't tell you a thing about whether somebody is lying or not. But lots of people don't know that, and sometimes you can get them to confess by suggesting the "test" indicates "deception".


Look it up.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MrsFrench, first let me say that if your avatar is indeed you, with respect, oh la la!

Second, the polygraph is like a bluff, for the most part. And if you're not a better poker player than he is, don't bother.

If you haven't already done so, why not set him down and tell him just like you have told us- you have little trust in him and cannot heal until you know absolutely everything. Tell him his stories don't add up and you have reached a point that without a true and heartfelt accounting, the marriage most likely is over. Maybe leave for a week and let him think it over... At the end of the day you have to be able to heal and put all this behind you. Give him a chance to be open with you.


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## Vivid (Aug 28, 2014)

You already know he lied. You already know he can't be trusted. 

If I got to the point of wanting a polygraph, my marriage would be over.


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

MrsFrench said:


> Why would she have gone through it, if she knew she was lying? Did she fancy she'd beat it?


Sometimes some people are so stubborn in their lies it doesn't matter. 

Remember, most cheaters will scream their innocence until they're caught red handed. 

So basically, it's all "I didn't cheat, honest" all the way until the polygraph is a failure, or you find 100% proof. Until then they explain or deny all of it. Most of them, most of the time do this.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

thatbpguy said:


> MrsFrench, first let me say that if your avatar is indeed you, with respect, oh la la!
> 
> Second, the polygraph is like a bluff, for the most part. And if you're not a better poker player than he is, don't bother.
> 
> If you haven't already done so, why not set him down and tell him just like you have told us- you have little trust in him and cannot heal until you know absolutely everything. Tell him his stories don't add up and you have reached a point that without a true and heartfelt accounting, the marriage most likely is over. Maybe leave for a week and let him think it over... At the end of the day you have to be able to heal and put all this behind you. Give him a chance to be open with you.


LOL, yes, that's me. Thank you. 

I'm all but incapable of lying/bluffing, he is obviously rather good at both. The problem I am having, is that we already had that sit down, almost a year ago to the day. He gave me every last excruciating detail of the ONS I discovered. Anything I asked, and trust me - if I told you to the extent of which I forced him to paint a picture, you'd think me a glutton for punishment or maybe just a little crazy. I believed him fully when he told me it was only the one time, with the one woman, due to how transparent he was about it, how much remorse was shown, how willing he was to do whatever it took to get me to stay, and the fact that he broke down into tears. The only time I've seen him cry aside from that was at our daughter's funeral. So, anyway, the problem I am having - like I started to say - is that I will never trust that he is telling me the truth this time, given that we've already been down this road, I bought it, and a year later have found out it was a lie. 

Leaving to really let it sink in, would terrify him and maybe cause a break through, but I'm 16 weeks pregnant, on bed rest, with a four year old at home - I'm not even sure where I would go. My kid would be confused, and I am an extremely private person to where flashing my dirty laundry to someone would leave me completely embarrassed. Perhaps a hotel is an option...but with me off work, our income is cut in half...So, what's a girl to do, you know?


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Vivid said:


> You already know he lied. You already know he can't be trusted.
> 
> If I got to the point of wanting a polygraph, my marriage would be over.


But you are not me, and with no input on polygraph testing, which is what I asked for, why bother commenting at all? 



awake1 said:


> Sometimes some people are so stubborn in their lies it doesn't matter.
> 
> Remember, most cheaters will scream their innocence until they're caught red handed.
> 
> So basically, it's all "I didn't cheat, honest" all the way until the polygraph is a failure, or you find 100% proof. Until then they explain or deny all of it. Most of them, most of the time do this.


I have been watching a lot of Maury and Dr. Phil with my new found free time. I guess I should know that! It is crazy the way people will deny, deny, deny until you slap them in the face with evidence that can't be explained away.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

MrsFrench said:


> Leaving to really let it sink in, would terrify him and maybe cause a break through, but I'm 16 weeks pregnant, on bed rest, with a four year old at home - I'm not even sure where I would go. My kid would be confused, and I am an extremely private person to where flashing my dirty laundry to someone would leave me completely embarrassed. Perhaps a hotel is an option...but with me off work, our income is cut in half...So, what's a girl to do, you know?


All the more reason to get him to see you're serious.

For some people like this they will only be honest when they know they are on the cusp of losing everything.

Then again, this also seems to be the way he is. He is an addict. So even if he does spill the beans, it's unlikely to stop.

So now what?


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good morning MrsFrench
Unfortunately based on what you already know, it seems likely that he will cheat again. In the end I think you need to decide if you are willing to stay married to someone who cheats, or to leave. That is your choice, and I don't think a reasonable person will fault you either way.

If you want evidence for a favorable divorce, then you need to talk to an attorney to find out what is and ins't admissible in court.

I just don't see how a polygraph helps. Many people believe that they are unreliable - so if it indicates nothing new, will you believe it? If it indicates that he cheated more than the twice you know about will you leave?


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## Vivid (Aug 28, 2014)

MrsFrench said:


> But you are not me, and with no input on polygraph testing, which is what I asked for, why bother commenting at all?
> 
> 
> 
> I have been watching a lot of Maury and Dr. Phil with my new found free time. I guess I should know that! It is crazy the way people will deny, deny, deny until you slap them in the face with evidence that can't be explained away.


That's quite aggressive. My input on polygraphs was that I didn't see the point as you already knew he lied. It's a perfectly valid position and I'd prefer you not take out your anger at your husband on me thanks.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

unbelievable said:


> A polygraph is just a measuring instrument like a blood pressure cuff or a thermometer. A good instrument is a good instrument. Some folks are great at wording the questions and interpreting the data and some folks just plain stink at it. If you can find a polygrapher trained by the U.S. military, especially one with a few years of Army CID experience, you have a reliable test. I wouldn't trust the results of someone who graduated from Joe's Bar, Grill and Polygraph Institute.


I was in CID, and witnessed many a poly. Generally, results are pretty good. But I've seen enough results greatly skewed (and proven to be false results) by nervous people or improperly worded questions. IMO, it is harder for someone who is lying to "beat the poly" than it is for a false DI (Deception Indicated) or inconclusive result to occur with someone who is telling the truth. But, the poly can be beat.

The greatest use of the polygraph is the fear of the polygraph, and that, used by a good investigator, can be extremely useful in coaxing the truth out of someone. I personally have submitted to a half dozen of them (training, and LE hiring process), and have had results that were incorrect. I refuse to submit to a poly for any reason now as a result.

The SAC (Special Agent in Charge) of my unit was reported to be an excellent polygraph examiner within the community. I know his opinion on them. They can be beat, and they can fail. I've seen it, and have the first hand opinion of one of the best at the time. Wording of the questions is critical. CRITICAL.

Were I to suspect my spouse of cheating, I'd never trust the results completely. BUT, you can bet your last dollar I WOULD use the threat of the poly, and even go as far as to have her submit to one, as a tool to get to the truth.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

TimeHeals said:


> They are useless except as an interrogation con. They don't tell you a thing about whether somebody is lying or not. But lots of people don't know that, and sometimes you can get them to confess by suggesting the "test" indicates "deception".
> 
> 
> Look it up.


Don't EVEN believe this. Seen them in action many times. If an experienced, well-trained examiner tells you someone is deceptive on a test, you can believe the results. Now, the test can't tell you why they are deceptive. They can pin-point the deception to a response to a particular question but no examiner can tell you why the respondent indicated responses consistent with deception on that question. Luckily, really great polygraphers are also among the best interrogators.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Vivid said:


> MrsFrench said:
> 
> 
> > But you are not me, and with no input on polygraph testing, which is what I asked for, why bother commenting at all?
> ...


Lol. That was far from aggressive. Why is it that people think that just because someone is upset about one thing, they can not also be turned off or angered by what someone else says or does, and not have transference playing a role? (It didn't anger me at all, for the record).

My point was, I have clearly decided to stay in the relationship as I attempt to discover the truth, and try to work things out if at all possible. So, I don't see how telling me you would end your marriage is contributing or relevant. My post specifically asked for advice or input from people with some kind of experience or information on polygraph testing. 

I find too often on this board, people who are looking for answers to specific questions, or who are clearly hopeful about reconciliation, just get told "DIVORCE HIM/HER". It just gets old, and I have only been here a week.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> TimeHeals said:
> 
> 
> > They are useless except as an interrogation con. They don't tell you a thing about whether somebody is lying or not. But lots of people don't know that, and sometimes you can get them to confess by suggesting the "test" indicates "deception".
> ...


Thank you for your information. I was ignoring that previous comment, as I didn't put much stock in it. 

If I were to do this, it would be short, basic questions that leave little to interpretation and require a simple, clear answer - I've read that tends to work best? 

Have you been physically unfaithful with more than 2 women at any point in your relationship with *name?

Have you been verbally or emotionally unfaithful at any point in your relationship with *name?

Have you remained physically faithful since marrying *name?

Have you been emotionally and verbally faithful since marrying *name? 

Have you been truthful when providing details about known infidelity with *name? 


Worded differently perhaps, but that is all I really want and need to know. If he failed the questions, I would have three follow ups - do I know the person(s), did you use protection, was it more than once/five/ten times.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

In regard to him repeating the infidelity - I discovered the first incident in September of last year. It had taken place five months earlier. This new incident, also took place prior to the marriage, though when abouts is unclear. If there are others, they are all pre-nuptials. He has said he took our vows seriously, and using his father who abused alcohol but was probably shy of actual alcoholism as an example - one day he just woke up and realized his behavior was going to ruin his life and cause him to lose everything, so he took steps to stop. While I do not think he is anywhere near a sex addict, I do think attention addict is a fitting term. 

There's no way to say this that doesn't come off as being full of myself, so I'll just be blunt - I'm an attractive woman. I'm ten years his junior. Where I live, I'm considered to be "exotic". I get a lot of attention, and it has ruined previous relationships with jealous men. Instead of jealousy, H struggled to deal with it for a long time in his own way, he sought validation elsewhere. He'd been used to getting attention himself. This came out in our first round of MC and our therapist considered it a breakthrough. 

I am positive he has not strayed since we have been married, because every text he sends or receives is copied to an online back up, and every call recorded. He has vehicular GPS. I have all his account passwords. He is a public school teacher, so any absence, tardy, etc, is recorded district wide on administration controlled Staff Web - which I have access to. He goes to work, and comes home, and that is literally it. Our chiropractor is a friend, and that is the only place he has gone without me during these past 12 months. Not to mention, chiropractic massage leaves a very distinct smell from the oil and imprint on your face from the table. Lol. 

I'm not completely confident that he won't repeat his offense. But none of us who choose R over D can ever be sure. It's a risk you decide to take or leave based on all the information at your disposal. I don't believe I have all the information to be able to view the full picture and decide. And am not sure how to feel comfortable enough without "proof" he's told me everything. Hence the polygraph. Does that make any sense?

I am trying to paint a full picture for y'all, I appreciate the input.


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## TimeHeals (Sep 26, 2011)

unbelievable said:


> Don't EVEN believe this. Seen them in action many times. If an experienced, well-trained examiner tells you someone is deceptive on a test, you can believe the results. Now, the test can't tell you why they are deceptive. They can pin-point the deception to a response to a particular question but no examiner can tell you why the respondent indicated responses consistent with deception on that question. Luckily, really great polygraphers are also among the best interrogators.



Yeah, who to believe, the National Academy of Science, or people with a machine that measure skin conductivity, pulse, blood pressure and respiration and then look at a chart of those after you have been asked some questions?

I mean... it's not as if double-blind testing has been done, right? Wrong. Testing has been done, and that's why polygraph's are not admissable in courts despite the manufacturers non-stop defamation lawsuits against every Scientific pulbication that has ever done such a study and published outcomes.


Now, in some cultures... interrogators claim to be able to discern lying from placing a wafer on the tongue of somebody who has spoken and studying their palms (ostensibly to see if they are sweating). This too elicits confessions, believe it or not. Probably just as reliable too.

Polygraphs have no Scientific standing. None, nada, zip.

Maybe some day neurology will yeild something that can really discern whether or not somebody is telling the truth (as they believe it), but we're not there, and these machines only "work" as part of an elaborate interrogation deception if they elicit a confession. If they were reliable, they'd be admissable in courts. 

There are also other electronic methods (facial expression, etc) that attempt to discern if somebody is being deceptive. Also, all unreliable. All yeilding mostly false positives, and that's because what they detect is anxiety, and that and the interrogators "intuition" about that is what they provide, and that's if the machines are calibrated properly. The interrogators may or may not believe they can ferret out deception this way. Maybe we should hook them up to their machines to find out? lol Oh, can't, not reliable.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon MrsFrench
Is it really worth staying with someone you need to monitor so closely? Is there something about him that makes him so desirable that it is worth living like this?

I know you are asking about polygraphs, but honestly I think you are asking the wrong question. 




MrsFrench said:


> In regard to him repeating the infidelity - I discovered the first incident in September of last year. It had taken place five months earlier. This new incident, also took place prior to the marriage, though when abouts is unclear. If there are others, they are all pre-nuptials. He has said he took our vows seriously, and using his father who abused alcohol but was probably shy of actual alcoholism as an example - one day he just woke up and realized his behavior was going to ruin his life and cause him to lose everything, so he took steps to stop. While I do not think he is anywhere near a sex addict, I do think attention addict is a fitting term.
> 
> There's no way to say this that doesn't come off as being full of myself, so I'll just be blunt - I'm an attractive woman. I'm ten years his junior. Where I live, I'm considered to be "exotic". I get a lot of attention, and it has ruined previous relationships with jealous men. Instead of jealousy, H struggled to deal with it for a long time in his own way, he sought validation elsewhere. He'd been used to getting attention himself. This came out in our first round of MC and our therapist considered it a breakthrough.
> 
> ...


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good afternoon MrsFrench
> Is it really worth staying with someone you need to monitor so closely? Is there something about him that makes him so desirable that it is worth living like this?
> 
> I know you are asking about polygraphs, but honestly I think you are asking the wrong question.


Long term? No. But in the here and now, until the infidelity is put as behind us as it will ever be - transparency is an important part of the healing process for the betrayed spouse, and the rebuilding trust for the wayward spouse. Or at least, that is what I was told in MC and have read online.

I certainly don't want to live forever in distrust, but trust isn't going to return overnight, or over the course of one year, and it won't be easy.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I spent about a month researching, and talked with 3 poly examiners in trying to set up an appointment when trying to determine if my stbxww's claim that yes she had cheated, but had not actually gone through with having sex were true or false. 

When I had chosen one (and this limited experience can tell you, they were VERY different), I told her so and told her I wanted her to do this, for me, if we were really going to move forward the way she wanted in R.

She agreed to take it, but immediately began crying and bawling about the reasons she might fail, and how heartbreaking it would be if we were to D over a false poly reading. My response was a bit cold but very direct -- we'd be divorcing becuase she cheated and because I couldn't find a way to trust that she was telling me everything about it, because my logical head and my gut told me differently. And the fact that she was already backtracking on why she may fail told me all I needed, so I never spent the money. 

Not exactly a parking lot confession, but to me, in a case of broken trust and trying to validate that re-entering a trust relationship, it's kind of the only tool you've got besides your gut. If she'd willingly marched in with an attitude of "nervous but will do anything and everything to prove that I am no longer lying to you", who knows what might have happened. The OM said they didn't have sex at a later point; maybe she was telling the truth. The point is, cheating breaks a trust and the BS is seeking ways to get it back. There aren't many. 

richardsharpe, I'll politely disagree with you on this one and flip it around -- if someone cheated on me, gaslighted and trickle-truthed to the point that I felt a poly was maybe a last resort option, and they didn't take that option, I'd divorce THEM. If they felt, given this history and their actions and getting caught, that they were 'insulted' by me looking to verify details instead of "just believing them because NOW they're really, really telling the truth", and wanted to divorce as a result then so be it. I didn't cause the mistrust, they did.

Yes polys can be beat. I did not think for a moment my stbxww was one that could beat it, especially if unprepared/trained (I sprung it in her that we were going that evening). Yes, a limited number of questions being answered, each formed with yes/no responses, and each re-asked in a few different ways by a highly-qualified interregator and poly examiner is "good but not perfect", from what I learned.

And I still wish I'd gone through with it. My 2 cents.


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## Vivid (Aug 28, 2014)

MrsFrench said:


> Lol. That was far from aggressive. Why is it that people think that just because someone is upset about one thing, they can not also be turned off or angered by what someone else says or does, and not have transference playing a role? (It didn't anger me at all, for the record).
> 
> My point was, I have clearly decided to stay in the relationship as I attempt to discover the truth, and try to work things out if at all possible. So, I don't see how telling me you would end your marriage is contributing or relevant. My post specifically asked for advice or input from people with some kind of experience or information on polygraph testing.
> 
> I find too often on this board, people who are looking for answers to specific questions, or who are clearly hopeful about reconciliation, just get told "DIVORCE HIM/HER". It just gets old, and I have only been here a week.


It's a public message board. You don't get to specify the kinds of replies you get.

And I was far from the only person who expressed the same sentiment, as the like count for that post shows. It's interesting that I'm the only one you responded to so snippily. 

It's also interesting that you joined a week ago and have already used two very attractive photos as avatars. Most people are a lot more circumspect.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Vivid said:


> It's a public message board. You don't get to specify the kinds of replies you get.
> 
> And I was far from the only person who expressed the same sentiment, as the like count for that post shows. It's interesting that I'm the only one you responded to so snippily.
> 
> It's also interesting that you joined a week ago and have already used two very attractive photos as avatars. Most people are a lot more circumspect.


Having an opinion and response to your comments doesn't make me snippy, and if others commented contributing absolutely nothing other than their opinion that I should end my marriage, I would ask them not to comment further if they didn't have anything to add about polygraph testing. 

I am aware it is a public message board. Do I think I can control the content of people's responses? No. But, what exactly is the point of posting at all, if you can't ask for specific advice? That concept doesn't even make sense. Not to mention, I am fairly certain in the rules of this board, it says to be supportive of people who are choosing to R. 

Clearly, you're insinuating that my photo isn't of me, and that is fine, I'm not going to paint Vivid or Mrs French across my forehead in lipstick and post a picture for you - because I quite frankly could not care less what you think about my avatar choice. I joined, couldn't decide on a picture, and I don't care if these people know what half of my face looks like in black and white. Who cares? If I am so snippy, just leave me and my problems to the people who are more interested in trying to help a struggling marriage and emotional woman than slinging pointless comments back and forth.

I joined this site because I am looking for insight from people who have been where I have been, coping tools - as the board is called COPING with infidelity - and answers to questions I have. I'm hurting in my real life, I don't need to carry on side conversations within my own thread with people who care so much about my avatar choices. 

So, I won't be responding to any more of your comments.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

2xloser said:


> I spent about a month researching, and talked with 3 poly examiners in trying to set up an appointment when trying to determine if my stbxww's claim that yes she had cheated, but had not actually gone through with having sex were true or false.
> 
> When I had chosen one (and this limited experience can tell you, they were VERY different), I told her so and told her I wanted her to do this, for me, if we were really going to move forward the way she wanted in R.
> 
> ...


You say you still wish you'd gone through with it? Just for some closure? 

It seems like for a lot of people, just the mere threat of a polygraph test gave you the answers you sought in one way or another. 

When you mentioned there were variations between the different testing facilities you looked into - what were they, and what made you decide on the one you would have used?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MrsFrench said:


> Sure. How reliable are they, in your experience?


Very accurate

Much is said about the inaccuracies about them but actual it's pretty simple. You establish your base line and then from that can measure physiological changes which occur when someone is lying. However people can do things to manipulate the test so that you get inaccurate results. For example one of the most common ones is when someone constantly shakes their leg which throws off the readings. They will claim nervousness but it's really just to screw up the Test. So the test administrator will generally tell you a few times to remain still and if you don't they will end the test. This is one of the reasons they can't be mandated to be used for court.

Some very rare people can lie without it being detected but that is very rare. And I've never seen it. Generally those people won't have a result for lies or truths....

What people concealing something will say is they are afraid that they will tell the truth but it will show as a lie. Never seen that. Sometimes a line of questioning will reveal a lie or possible lie without hitting the exact mark.

Example. You ask a suspect did you kill Adam. Suspect didn't kill Adam but suspect did kill Dave. The anxiety of hiding killing Dave could make the test say a lie even though the suspect didn't kill Adam. This is also why you ask generalities and then narrow it down so it looks like this

Have you ever killed anyone?
Did you kill Adam
And so on

So yes I'm a believer from what I have seen. If I was ever accused of anything I didn't do I would immediately request to take one


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

MrsFrench said:


> You say you still wish you'd gone through with it? Just for some closure?
> 
> It seems like for a lot of people, just the mere threat of a polygraph test gave you the answers you sought in one way or another.
> 
> When you mentioned there were variations between the different testing facilities you looked into - what were they, and what made you decide on the one you would have used?


Mrs. French first off he must be effin nuts to have cheated on you
But I digress I like to go with more the threat of a poly and get the "parking lot confession" so to speak.
You said that is your pic and I'm still shaking my head.:slap:
Anyway.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

I am late to the party, but I have something to contribute.

Please follow the links on my signature for some reading on the reliability of polygraphs.

PM me if you would like additional resources.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Wolf1974 said:


> Very accurate
> 
> Much is said about the inaccuracies about them but actual it's pretty simple. You establish your base line and then from that can measure physiological changes which occur when someone is lying. However people can do things to manipulate the test so that you get inaccurate results. For example one of the most common ones is when someone constantly shakes their leg which throws off the readings. They will claim nervousness but it's really just to screw up the Test. So the test administrator will generally tell you a few times to remain still and if you don't they will end the test. This is one of the reasons they can't be mandated to be used for court.
> 
> ...


So it sounds like it's more about the line of questioning being done the right way, when it comes to the accuracy. Starting broad and then narrowing with something very specific. 

I know he knows nothing about shirking a polygraph, and I wouldn't give him a warning in the event he wanted to research and attempt it - and I truly do not think he would do that, anyway. The threat of it and knowing I am serious would bring out one of the parking lot confessions that tom67 just mentioned. 

I really appreciate your input, by the way, it certainly makes the money seem well worth it for the lifetime of peace of mind.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Mrs. French first off he must be effin nuts to have cheated on you
> But I digress I like to go with more the threat of a poly and get the "parking lot confession" so to speak.
> You said that is your pic and I'm still shaking my head.:slap:
> Anyway.


Well, thank you for the kindness. I found out today I have a blood clotting disorder and pre-eclampsia, and am dealing with a struggling marriage - so at least I have something going for me!


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I used it and twice even before the test received new suddenly remembered info. 

Drag it out as long as you can. It is tomorrow... Bam! New info! Had to reschedule. Bam! New info!

Just be willing to leave or else it is all for naught. Better off not knowing.


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## 2asdf2 (Jun 5, 2012)

For those interested in scientific "truth hunting" here is a link to Alan Alda's segment on lie detection from "Brains on Trial with Alan Alda" explaining fMRI (functional MRI) experimental approaches.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBHy0UYBtwI


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

MrsFrench said:


> You say you still wish you'd gone through with it? Just for some closure?
> 
> It seems like for a lot of people, just the mere threat of a polygraph test gave you the answers you sought in one way or another.
> 
> When you mentioned there were variations between the different testing facilities you looked into - what were they, and what made you decide on the one you would have used?


Yes, just tor the closure. I ultimately decided to split up anyway, and yet actually do believe her affair was not sexual. (I couldn't handle her telling another man "I love you".) But I'll never know, and if the poly had said she was telling the truth, I'd feel better. If it said she was lying, I'd feel better about the decision I made. Not knowing is a very mild self-torture form, to me. 

It seemed to me in my very small sample that the "best" (imho) was very diligent right from the beginning that the only way was to keep the line of interrogation about getting to a very very narrow "fact or two" -- not a wide and diverse set of questions. I wanted to know if she ever had "sexual relations" outside the marriage. He offered up several different variations to questions that would be interrogating this, and asked me which ONE, if answered yes or no, would satisfy me most. Then he asked me 4-5 irrefutable facts about her that he could put into his baseline questions (ie, if your name xxxxxx, were you born on xxxxx...) Then he asked me for an emotional topic, with a fact (ie, her mom died, or she had a complicated childbirth). I felt like he'd be able to get a good read on when she was stating facts, stating facts in an emotional state, and then (I supposed) if she were knowingly lying. He also was open that yes there are poly beaters, but had reams of info on that likelihood in a typical person scenario, a non-criminal or govt agent type person, as well as police dept and govt references. The others seemed to "promise" too much result (99% accuracy and success, ask anything and we'll get to the bottom of it, etc.), and argued it couldn't be beaten.


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

MrsFrench said:


> I've been really thinking about it lately. There are several options within reasonable distance. Has anyone actually done this with their wayward partner? Do you put stock in it? How did it work out for you? Can anyone share a detailed experience?


This is how polygraphing works.. I know this because I've worked on the machines and computers. I have spoken with the vendors and done assessments for the equipment..

This simple gist is this..

The questions you are looking to ask the subject are numbered out in a specific order and peppered in with other base line questions that you know are not true or threatening to the subject , thus allowing the subject the chance to be calm and answer a truthful question..

The whole point is to build up anticipation for the target question. So even though questions 1 through 5 are simple truthful statements, the subject knows that question 6 is the target question. So as it gets closer to the target question it is hoped that the subject will have enough stress to register on the equipment. 

That is pretty much it in a nutshell. 

So people taking meds like a xanax could help defeat the system. Or causing stress through every question would also confuse the system. EG putting a tack in your shoes and purposely stepping on it for every question..

Personally I don't see the value in this unless it is reasonable. EG I would spend 200 or maybe 250 for it.. But I wouldn't spend more than that to prove or disprove something in my relationship. If I feel that my Significant Other is shady enough to lie to me then I have bigger issues than the affair itself. How do I ever trust them again..

And finally lets say the person passes the poly but is still lying.. What then ? What if 2 weeks later you get someone else to confirm the truth that the poly failed to discover. For 2 weeks this person is strutting around with the badge of truth on their chest. And even after you confirm it, they still will be saying the poly proved them right and this person is lying for whatever reason.

So now its a new fight between the poly results that YOU wanted to do and this other person. So now who makes the decision of who or what is telling the truth ? 
YOU ?
THEM ?
The Poly ?
Or this other person ?

I would use the poly ONLY if you know the person will fold.. If the person is that naive to believe this thing is infallible. 

If you can stand back and for a moment look from the 20,000 foot mark.. Is this really that necessary in a relationship ? 

What's next doing a poly before the relationship even starts ?

I will admit I'm not perfect either because I browbeat people to death instead.. So maybe my methods are even more painful then a poly..


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Vivid said:


> You already know he lied. You already know he can't be trusted.
> 
> If I got to the point of wanting a polygraph, my marriage would be over.


Sadly I have to agree with you Vivid.

I truly applaud people who can go through infidelity and keep their marriage alive and fix their issues they had prior. There are a number of people on TAM who fit that mold. 

I know myself and cheating is a mandatory divorce for me. I don't handle doubt and lack of trust well. It's a cornerstone for me. If I don't trust the person, it consumes me and everything else in the relationship starts to fail. My love, my endearment, my desire for closeness, my lust would all nose dive. It would develop intense resentment that I couldn't recover from. 

A lot of that has to do with how hard I work on my relationships. Cheating is like taking everything I am and I do and wiping their a$$ with it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Part of your problem will be that "unfaithful" is subject to interpretation. Especially emotional infidelity. So your questions seem very ambiguous. 

However, a good polygrapher should be able to help you, I'd think.

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MrsFrench said:


> So it sounds like it's more about the line of questioning being done the right way, when it comes to the accuracy.


In other words, you get what you pay for. Don't find the cheapest, find the best. Read reviews.


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

Afford a polygraph on a school teacher's salary?...You may not be working?...You seem to speak a lot of "legaleze" too, in attack mode. You are so educated on the subject already, opinions weren't available on the internet too, external to TAM? I don't know what you really want...You seem to be so adept at answering your own questions.


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## MrsFrench (Sep 9, 2014)

Calibre1212 said:


> Afford a polygraph on a school teacher's salary?...You may not be working?...You seem to speak a lot of "legaleze" too, in attack mode. You are so educated on the subject already, opinions weren't available on the internet too, external to TAM? I don't know what you really want...You seem to be so adept at answering your own questions.


It's not like polygraph tests cost five grand, they aren't _that_ expensive, the cost doesn't deter me whatsoever. 

And no, I know absolutely nothing about polygraph testing, nor have I claimed to at any point in this thread. What I *do* know, is that I am staying in my marriage - provided I now know the full truth about the infidelity (I need all the help I can get in achieving R, and am uninterested in any commentary having to do with divorce or hiring an attorney. 

What I truly do not understand, is why anyone who feels I am this or that, continues to comment? Just let this thread go, then. 

_________
@Hard2Handle - My partner cheated. He admitted this. He is willing to do anything to R, and I am willing to stay - under certain circumstances. The infidelity occurred before our marriage, I am just now uncovering it. If it was before we were married, enagaged, and/or living together, and there is only the incidents I know of - which is what he claims - I am willing to fight tooth and nail to make it through the pain, rebuild trust and try to R and move forward. However, given the fact that he very obviously lied to me in the past, I need to feel confident that I have the truth now in order to feel comfortable moving forward. So, I am not just randomly deciding to force my husband to take a polygraph out of nowhere, for no reason whatsoever...


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## Calibre1212 (Aug 11, 2014)

"What I truly do not understand, is why anyone who feels I am this or that, continues to comment? Just let this thread go, then." 

Maybe you should Google it so you can truly understand.

Yawn :sleeping:


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

Everyone has an opinion on this. It isn't foolproof so it is controversial. It can be an effective tool or a,waste of money solely dependent on whether you have a plan to deal with the what ifs.

Decide to believe the results at face, decide this is just another data point and use it with everything else you know, decide that it isn't going to give you the absolute you require and move on...

It is just another option.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

MrsFrench said:


> So it sounds like it's more about the line of questioning being done the right way, when it comes to the accuracy. Starting broad and then narrowing with something very specific.
> 
> I know he knows nothing about shirking a polygraph, and I wouldn't give him a warning in the event he wanted to research and attempt it - and I truly do not think he would do that, anyway. The threat of it and knowing I am serious would bring out one of the parking lot confessions that tom67 just mentioned.
> 
> I really appreciate your input, by the way, it certainly makes the money seem well worth it for the lifetime of peace of mind.


True and to be fair I have never seen a third party polygraph test given. We have a polygraph administrator on staff so the civilian model may work differently but I would think they would have similar qualifications .

Any other questions feel free to let me know.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> True and to be fair I have never seen a third party polygraph test given. We have a polygraph administrator on staff so the civilian model may work differently but I would think they would have similar qualifications .
> 
> Any other questions feel free to let me know.


Just wondering have you ever seen it where someone that is able to compartmentalize can actually "pass" a poly because they state they can't remember some fact, and in all honesty seem to not be able to recall it?? So even when asked a yes/no or true/false type of question they are so able to compartmentalize the information that they still appear to be responding truthfully even though they aren't? 

Guess I am asking if it is even possible to compartmentalize to such level (as my WW has claimed this and her therapist, which I have little trust in as she seems to be all about rug sweeping, said it was possible in limited individuals, not saying this is the case for everyone claiming compartmentalization) to pass a poly in this way?


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

My h turned up an inconclusive on one of those. 

But if someone believes their own bull, I bet they could pass.

If your H has his own definitions, eg. It isn't jerking off if you don't orgasm, you need to have agreed upon definitions and language.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> Just wondering have you ever seen it where someone that is able to compartmentalize can actually "pass" a poly because they state they can't remember some fact, and in all honesty seem to not be able to recall it?? So even when asked a yes/no or true/false type of question they are so able to compartmentalize the information that they still appear to be responding truthfully even though they aren't?
> 
> Guess I am asking if it is even possible to compartmentalize to such level (as my WW has claimed this and her therapist, which I have little trust in as she seems to be all about rug sweeping, said it was possible in limited individuals, not saying this is the case for everyone claiming compartmentalization) to pass a poly in this way?


Then the poly question would be "Is it true that you do not remember the incident..."

And be re-asked later as something like "Do you remember the incident of...."

and later, "Have you ever lied about not remembering in order to protect yourself from incrimination".


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

2xloser said:


> Squeakr said:
> 
> 
> > Just wondering have you ever seen it where someone that is able to compartmentalize can actually "pass" a poly because they state they can't remember some fact, and in all honesty seem to not be able to recall it?? So even when asked a yes/no or true/false type of question they are so able to compartmentalize the information that they still appear to be responding truthfully even though they aren't?
> ...


Thanks but that is not quite what I am asking. I am not trying to find out how to get the information or find out if they are lying, but more if it is possible for someone to compartmentalize so great that they actually weren't lying about something as they couldn't recall it when questioned about it or to not remember it entirely. 

Say you and they know something to be a truth, but they are able to block it so that they "appear" to have no memory of it (kind of like a black out, lapse in memory, or temporary memory loss)v


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I see (and didn't like my closing "See?" above because it sounded a bit nasty, not intended that way so I deleted it btw; sorry).

I am no expert, and don't know. I would guess that's one of the ways those highly trained secret agent types can learn to beat a poly. But it's got to take real training, or a real disorder of some type, I would think. Especially if like you said, "you and they both know the truth"

But for your average joe, I would think it's poossible but very difficult, and can be "combated" by a real good poly investigator IF they were alerted and prepared for that very thing. Maybe Wolf has some intel...


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

2xloser said:


> I see (and didn't like my closing "See?" above because it sounded a bit nasty, not intended that way so I deleted it btw; sorry).
> 
> I am no expert, and don't know. I would guess that's one of the ways those highly trained secret agent types can learn to beat a poly. But it's got to take real training, or a real disorder of some type, I would think. Especially if like you said, "you and they both know the truth"
> 
> But for your average joe, I would think it's poossible but very difficult, and can be "combated" by a real good poly investigator IF they were alerted and prepared for that very thing. Maybe Wolf has some intel...


Understood the final see and no offense taken and I didn't feel your response had any hidden undertones. ( so didn't need deleting in my mind but whatever makes you feel better). 

You touched exactly on what I was trying to relay or refer to in that it being a major disorder, as I feel there is some bi-polar or other issues at work there, and not any intent to willingly mislead a tester or anybody else for that matter. It is a weird issue where even though several parties know the truth, the person believes and feels in their heart or heart that something different occurred. 

I have always heard that since the person truly believes it this way, it wouldn't be revealed as deceptive on a polygraph as that is their true belief. It is almost like when you see the stories of multiple personality disorder people whom have no knowledge of their alter egos or what they have done while in that other ego, even when shown and presented with the facts and evidence. 

That was more the interest I had of those people have ever "passed" a test due to this phenomenon, or would the tester refuse such subjects based upon that is sidle at play?

Thanks for your response and inputs as I think it is interesting to hear about.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

I think compartmentalization is how someone learns to live with behaving in ways that do not fit with their belief system. It isn't the same thing as not remembering. It is a method of rationalization as in, in situation A this would be cheating but in situation B I can justifiably say that it is not. One thing had nothing to do with the other thing. They are not related and therefore doing this cannot be seenas harming the other.

Not remembering, that's different. That's a kind of mental illness. 

Most cheaters are perfectly sane. 

I think that's really important to remember. They acted as they chose and when caught they will do whatever it takes to lose as little as possible.

They will tell you that they had to lie because if they didn't they would lose you. Well no ****, right? You cheated. But you didn't want to lose me? So you lied about it? Uh... if you didn't want to lose me you wouldn't have cheated! Every detail become something they weigh. What will it cost if I tell the truth? The more they lie and the longer that lie well of course they can't remember! They can't remember all of the lies! That's what they can't keep straight.

The truth is simple.

At some point it just isn't worth it. You can never believe them again. They've made it impossible. 99% of the people you interact with in your entire life never lie to you and the one person you need to trust makes your brain and your heart hurt. 

And they know what they are doing it and for whom they are doing it. Themselves.

A lie detector test can't erase that knowledge. The truth is amazing stuff. But they corrupt the beauty of the truth.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> I think compartmentalization is how someone learns to live with behaving in ways that do not fit with their belief system. It isn't the same thing as not remembering. It is a method of rationalization as in, in situation A this would be cheating but in situation B I can justifiably say that it is not. One thing had nothing to do with the other thing. They are not related and therefore doing this cannot be seenas harming the other.
> 
> Not remembering, that's different. That's a kind of mental illness.


I agree for most people this is the case (and how it probably started for my STBXW). 

I have seen it though in that with my STBXW she is not compartmentalizing to use as an excuse to lie anymore (she lies when she wants and needs no excuse and stands by that ideal), she is using it as a coping method and has been doing it so long in her life (I have really just found this out since I discovered the As) that she "actually" can't remember unless she is in that compartment (yes she is that locked up in her mind).

It is really interesting, as she needs to have something to "place" her into a specific compartment and then she can recall things pertaining to that memory, otherwise in normal everyday activities she has no knowledge of things in the different compartments she is not in. I and her therapist think there is more going on here and possibility some illness showing itself prematurely. 

I was just wondering if people like this could essentially "pass" a poly as they truly do not remember or become affected by their past actions unless they can be "put" into that compartment beforehand and then they have pretty much full recall.

I at first thought she was lying when it happened, but it isn't just something pertaining to lies, it includes other traumatic events in her life like family deaths, and other things of that nature.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

not remembering shows up as inconclusive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

clipclop2 said:


> not remembering shows up as inconclusive.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Guess, I don't truly understand the dynamics of a poly having never taken one, as I was under the impression that most questions were phrased to be responded as true/ false or yes/no, which if you don't remember and feel it never happened based on that lack of memory you could definitely answer NO and it would be interpreted as being truthful.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Squeakr said:


> Guess, I don't truly understand the dynamics of a poly having never taken one, as I was under the impression that most questions were phrased to be responded as true/ false or yes/no, which if you don't remember and feel it never happened based on that lack of memory you could definitely answer NO and it would be interpreted as being truthful.


I would think if they really truly don't remember it through some mental illness (BPD) or incapacity (or capability?) -- vs. consciously suppressing it and refusing to acknowledge it -- that their physiological changes like increased heartrate or breathing pattern changes would not show up and be detected by the machine or adminsitrator of the test. In her mind, she wouldn't be lying, withholding, or repressing something, she'd be just telling the truth. 

It's essentially what is taught to be done to beat a poly -- control your physical reactions by controlling what you actually think. 

Scary but interesting.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

2xloser said:


> I would think if they really truly don't remember it through some mental illness (BPD) or incapacity (or capability?) -- vs. consciously suppressing it and refusing to acknowledge it -- that their physiological changes like increased heartrate or breathing pattern changes would not show up and be detected by the machine or adminsitrator of the test. In her mind, she wouldn't be lying, withholding, or repressing something, she'd be just telling the truth.
> 
> It's essentially what is taught to be done to beat a poly -- control your physical reactions by controlling what you actually think.
> 
> Scary but interesting.


:iagree:

That's exactly what I was thinking. If it is truly believed and there is no waivering or questioning within their mind regarding the response, then it wouldn't trigger the machine and be read as truthful, therefor they would pass without question. Of course, like we all have added there would need to be some underlying issue medically to create such condition and this type of scenario and group of candidates would be extremely limited in number.


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## clipclop2 (Aug 16, 2013)

they asked control questions at the beginning so that they can gauge the response of someone who is not telling the truth. typically it clear yes or a clear no to a question will has a clear response depending upon the truth in the answer. 

if you are answering falsely the supposition is that you will be answering falsely and at the same time feeling stressed because you are without a doubt lying. 

since you have to give a yes or no answer if you truly did not remember he would probably answer no to something. But your response would not be as strong as an out no lie I would be because in your mind you really aren't sure. 

so it would show a negative response however it would be below the threshold of a confirmed lie. that would be considered inconclusive. not meet it would not meet the signal strength necessary to say that they were lying. 

it's unfortunate that you can't use a method to calibrate the instrument and to be able to interpolate accurately. But you just can't do that. there's no way to ask a series of questions that you know the person doesn't remember the answer to whether good or bad and come up with a means of interpreting those lower level signals. 

so you have to pair of their interrogation techniques with the instrument.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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