# Guiding kids towards independence



## AlwaysConflicted (1 mo ago)

So let me preface this by saying I never wanted kids. Don't have any of my own, and I am fine with that. That being said, for 8 years I have been in a house with my GF's 2 kids, 22 and 18 now. The oldest is a non starter in life and has been couch surfing for years working dead end jobs. Finally got a good temp job in her field of study, so maybe light at the end of the tunnel there. The youngest, who should have been part time with her father, has been here 99% of the time. For 2 years during Covid, this was 24 X 7 in the house with no breaks. She is now 4 hours away in school and life is much better. The issue is that the youngest is completely dependent upon her mom doing things for her, well, everything except for the "fun" things in life. Recently my youngest stepbrother has declared a large swath of my parents home off limits to my sister and I, including the guest bathroom which is now his personal bathroom. He is an entitled brat whose father cuddles him in everything. So now I can barely even go visit my Mom, who is pretty much stuck at home due to health issues, and now stuck in this situation. I am not going to end up like that, but can see the beginnings of it in my own home. The youngest has taken over a good 50% of the house as her own, mostly through hoarding and it's inevitable creep. So I am deeply worried when the youngest daughter is not given any responsibilities, and allowed to shirk any responsibilities that should be hers and hers alone. Now some of this is petty, I will be the first to admit, and some is not. I don't think it is too much to expect a good going to college to clean their room and not leave dirty laundry and wrappers all over the place, but that is just what happened of course. So week after she went to college, my GF was in cleaning her room up. She came home for Thanksgiving and instead of making the bed in her room, she crashed in her sisters old room, or rather what I consider to be the guest bedroom. Now is that petty, probably, but this same attitude permeates all the dynamics in this house. From cleaning up her own dishes, to taking care of her own car, which is here due to her being in her first year. The car had some nasty noises from the brakes, but instead of the youngest taking care of it when she came home, it was all taken care of ahead of time since the youngest would not have "any time" to do it when she got home. So the day before Thanksgiving, a work day, the daughter is here all day annoying the heck out of me with her constant noise while I am trying to work. Seems like there was plenty of time for her to experience just one of the many responsibilities of car ownership. To me, each one these "rescues" is a missed opportunity for her to learn the many facets of growing up. Won't even get into the whole story about her needing to have a car to get a job last summer, and no job ever materializing, therefore most likely no money to maintain her car. And it is her car, titled and insured in her name.

Sorry about the lengthy backstory, but hoping someone can chime in on ideas for a roadmap here. I don't want to end my relationship because of this, but it is getting very close to it. I simply do not want to be part of this dynamic that I can see resulting in a kid who won't take any responsibilty for her life because she is being enabled to live a work free, care free life by leaching off of her Mom and I. Now I provide zero assistance at all direct to the daughter, I won't offer, and she won't ask. I am sure her mom is making up for that however.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, you won't like my advice, then. 

I advise terminating the relationship. 

None of this is going to get better. You see how your girlfriend parents. This is what your life is. She has shown it to you.


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## AlwaysConflicted (1 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> Well, you won't like my advice, then.
> 
> I advise terminating the relationship.
> 
> None of this is going to get better. You see how your girlfriend parents. This is what your life is. She has shown it to you.


Don't like the end state, but certainly respect your advice. I agree that this dynamic is now hardwired into both parties and changing that is at best an uphill battle, and may not be a battle I can win, nor a battle I even have a right to participate in. It has not escaped me that I may only have the ability to take action based on what is.

Thank you.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

This is why approximately 70% of marriages (or in your case, shack ups) where children are involved, fail. The problem is not the children, the problem is your GF. Parents need to set the expectation that when a child turns 18, they are either in college or out on their own. Then they can do whatever they want, but they have to be in their own place and they have to take care of themselves. But the problem is that there are way too many snowflake, limp ****ed parents who would rather be their kid's best friend rather than a parent. I agree with @Livvie. This is not going to change. If you don't want to be a part of it, get out.


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## AlwaysConflicted (1 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> This is why approximately 70% of marriages (or in your case, shack ups) where children are involved, fail. The problem is not the children, the problem is your GF. Parents need to set the expectation that when a child turns 18, they are either in college or out on their own. Then they can do whatever they want, but they have to be in their own place and they have to take care of themselves. But the problem is that there are way too many snowflake, limp ****ed parents who would rather be their kid's best friend rather than a parent. I agree with @Livvie. This is not going to change. If you don't want to be a part of it, get out.


I cannot agree with you more Diceplayer. She is in college full time, you know, educational full time definition. It is the remaining 1/3 of the year that I dread, and that I feel should be different than it was in High School with clear boundaries tailored to guiding her to independence, not a lifetime of dependency on Mom.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

If you want a kid to be independent, you have to give them some independence even early on and not sit on them like you're hatching an egg as they grow up and go to college. If she's had no independence, she's not getting it at home, so her being at college is the only hope, really, that she might embrace leaving the home someday on her own. Helicopter parents never seem to let go and neither do their kids. 

I'm not even suggesting that the expectation should be that she suddenly transform into Suzie Homemaker when she comes home. Those young adults years are often the messiest. But it is her mom doing this to her. She is now in a position to say, If you want to come home next weekend, then you need to clean your room and put some stuff on the curb this weekend. It will never happen, though. 

I wonder how much stuff you could discretely throw out before she noticed. First thing my mom did when I went off to live in the dorm was put all my records in a garage sale without saying a thing about it. I didn't like it, but I lived through it.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

AlwaysConflicted said:


> So let me preface this by saying I never wanted kids. Don't have any of my own, and I am fine with that. That being said, for 8 years I have been in a house with my GF's 2 kids, 22 and 18 now. The oldest is a non starter in life and has been couch surfing for years working dead end jobs. Finally got a good temp job in her field of study, so maybe light at the end of the tunnel there. The youngest, who should have been part time with her father, has been here 99% of the time. For 2 years during Covid, this was 24 X 7 in the house with no breaks. She is now 4 hours away in school and life is much better. The issue is that the youngest is completely dependent upon her mom doing things for her, well, everything except for the "fun" things in life. Recently my youngest stepbrother has declared a large swath of my parents home off limits to my sister and I, including the guest bathroom which is now his personal bathroom. He is an entitled brat whose father cuddles him in everything. So now I can barely even go visit my Mom, who is pretty much stuck at home due to health issues, and now stuck in this situation. I am not going to end up like that, but can see the beginnings of it in my own home. The youngest has taken over a good 50% of the house as her own, mostly through hoarding and it's inevitable creep. So I am deeply worried when the youngest daughter is not given any responsibilities, and allowed to shirk any responsibilities that should be hers and hers alone. Now some of this is petty, I will be the first to admit, and some is not. I don't think it is too much to expect a good going to college to clean their room and not leave dirty laundry and wrappers all over the place, but that is just what happened of course. So week after she went to college, my GF was in cleaning her room up. She came home for Thanksgiving and instead of making the bed in her room, she crashed in her sisters old room, or rather what I consider to be the guest bedroom. Now is that petty, probably, but this same attitude permeates all the dynamics in this house. From cleaning up her own dishes, to taking care of her own car, which is here due to her being in her first year. The car had some nasty noises from the brakes, but instead of the youngest taking care of it when she came home, it was all taken care of ahead of time since the youngest would not have "any time" to do it when she got home. So the day before Thanksgiving, a work day, the daughter is here all day annoying the heck out of me with her constant noise while I am trying to work. Seems like there was plenty of time for her to experience just one of the many responsibilities of car ownership. To me, each one these "rescues" is a missed opportunity for her to learn the many facets of growing up. Won't even get into the whole story about her needing to have a car to get a job last summer, and no job ever materializing, therefore most likely no money to maintain her car. And it is her car, titled and insured in her name.
> 
> Sorry about the lengthy backstory, but hoping someone can chime in on ideas for a roadmap here. I don't want to end my relationship because of this, but it is getting very close to it. I simply do not want to be part of this dynamic that I can see resulting in a kid who won't take any responsibilty for her life because she is being enabled to live a work free, care free life by leaching off of her Mom and I. Now I provide zero assistance at all direct to the daughter, I won't offer, and she won't ask. I am sure her mom is making up for that however.


From what I have witnessed if you don't raise your kids to be independent from the start it is very hard to make a change once they are teenagers or older. And parents who do everything for their kids are very unlikely to cut them off and force them to grow up and adult. I have found with my kids you have to be very intentional in fostering independence from a young age. It can be very tempting to step in and try to protect them from making mistakes and help them write that college essay and these kids of things but you are doing a lot of damage in the long run. If your GF has raised her kids to be dependent and they are 18 and 22 it is likely to be a long term thing. Whats the incentive to take care of themselves when they know mom will always help out. The truth is the kids are dependent on your GF because your GF wants them to be.


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## AlwaysConflicted (1 mo ago)

@DownByTheRiver, great screenname by the way!! Again, I agree wholeheartedly. My GF is adamant she is not a helicopter parent, I disagree to a degree. That is a very subjective qualification though. Her daughter has had independence to a certain degree. I guess when someone says have you allowed independence, I do not know what that means. Could she come and go as she pleased with friends, absolutely. I know it was asked by her mom to let her know though. Did she have space to do her homework, not do her homework, absolutely. I know her every activity is not monitored. My observation is that my GF will swoop in and take care of everything when asked though. Of course, it is always asked when her daughter has something to gain, or can avoid figuring it out herself. Either way, the life lesson is avoided, setting up up this obvious dependency. So it seems to me that there is plenty of independence there, but no desire, nor push, to use that independence for anything but fun stuff. It is the timing of that push that confounds me. I was pushed into using my independence at a very young age. Out of milk? Here is a dollar, go down and get some. Want new motors for your model rockets (actual example), you know where the hobby store is, hope you have money. In this house though there is no issue with my GF's daughter coming home with ice cream, and then asking her mom to go back out and get her milk. In my day the answer would have been, why did you not get some while you were out buying your ice cream?? Guess you will be putting water on your cereal. But this seems to be the norm these days, and kids are lapping it up like kittens at a bowl of milk. Very very bad message to be passing to your kids if you want my opinion. Hell, I would be happy if in this house the answer was that it would go on the shopping list, so make do until next shopping day. Is this cruel these days??


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Parents need to teach kids independence and resourcefulness, that hasn't happened around you.

Your definition of independence in regards to your girlfriends daughters are off the mark. Independence doesn't mean letting a kid come and go as they please, nor does it mean they get to do their homework when they feel like it.

Independence is learning how to navigate life, and the consequences of those decisions, good or bad. Sometimes there should be no safety net, no parent stepping in to save the day. As my dad use to say, " suffering is a good thing, kids need more of it".

As a boyfriend you have no clout. The best advise I can offer you is find some books or videos about co dependency and enabeling behavior, then have mom study the material. Maybe have your folks look at the info as well and they will learn how to deal with your step brother.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

AlwaysConflicted said:


> So let me preface this by saying I never wanted kids. Don't have any of my own, and I am fine with that. That being said, for 8 years I have been in a house with my GF's 2 kids, 22 and 18 now. The oldest is a non starter in life and has been couch surfing for years working dead end jobs. Finally got a good temp job in her field of study, so maybe light at the end of the tunnel there. The youngest, who should have been part time with her father, has been here 99% of the time. For 2 years during Covid, this was 24 X 7 in the house with no breaks. She is now 4 hours away in school and life is much better. The issue is that the youngest is completely dependent upon her mom doing things for her, well, everything except for the "fun" things in life. Recently my youngest stepbrother has declared a large swath of my parents home off limits to my sister and I, including the guest bathroom which is now his personal bathroom. He is an entitled brat whose father cuddles him in everything. So now I can barely even go visit my Mom, who is pretty much stuck at home due to health issues, and now stuck in this situation. I am not going to end up like that, but can see the beginnings of it in my own home. The youngest has taken over a good 50% of the house as her own, mostly through hoarding and it's inevitable creep. So I am deeply worried when the youngest daughter is not given any responsibilities, and allowed to shirk any responsibilities that should be hers and hers alone. Now some of this is petty, I will be the first to admit, and some is not. I don't think it is too much to expect a good going to college to clean their room and not leave dirty laundry and wrappers all over the place, but that is just what happened of course. So week after she went to college, my GF was in cleaning her room up. She came home for Thanksgiving and instead of making the bed in her room, she crashed in her sisters old room, or rather what I consider to be the guest bedroom. Now is that petty, probably, but this same attitude permeates all the dynamics in this house. From cleaning up her own dishes, to taking care of her own car, which is here due to her being in her first year. The car had some nasty noises from the brakes, but instead of the youngest taking care of it when she came home, it was all taken care of ahead of time since the youngest would not have "any time" to do it when she got home. So the day before Thanksgiving, a work day, the daughter is here all day annoying the heck out of me with her constant noise while I am trying to work. Seems like there was plenty of time for her to experience just one of the many responsibilities of car ownership. To me, each one these "rescues" is a missed opportunity for her to learn the many facets of growing up. Won't even get into the whole story about her needing to have a car to get a job last summer, and no job ever materializing, therefore most likely no money to maintain her car. And it is her car, titled and insured in her name.
> 
> Sorry about the lengthy backstory, but hoping someone can chime in on ideas for a roadmap here. I don't want to end my relationship because of this, but it is getting very close to it. I simply do not want to be part of this dynamic that I can see resulting in a kid who won't take any responsibilty for her life because she is being enabled to live a work free, care free life by leaching off of her Mom and I. Now I provide zero assistance at all direct to the daughter, I won't offer, and she won't ask. I am sure her mom is making up for that however.



Going forward May I suggest breaking your posts up into paragraphs. You’ll get more feedback as people will be include to complete the read.

I have two sibling at home with my mom, a twin brother who’s never moved out and a 47 yo leech of a sister who had a baby in 2020. My mom feels helpless herself and if you don’t get your wife to step up and set healthy boundaries and responsibilities, she’ll be in the same boat, even if y’all don’t end up being together for some reason. Another said it, as the BF you don’t have a lot of say.


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