# When is it enough?



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

I have been dealing with my SO's mental health issues for years now. When we dated and first got married, it wasn't present. Ultimately, I know he is a good person and a good father. But when his issues are triggered, it manifests into anger. Never anything physically but the things that are said are definitely verbally abusive. He has sought help and thing have gotten better but these episodes are still there and bad. I am mentally and emotionally tired from years of verbal and mental abuse. ( Even if he didn't mean to be abusive.. let's call it what it is... ) and my child is getting old enough now and realizing things. I've asked for a divorce and now he's saying he finally understands my standpoint. That until now, he hasn't really been listening. That he will try and to give him this one last chance. Do I break this abusive cycle once and for all? Or for the sake of my child see if I can salvage this?


----------



## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

Has he done anything or started any kind of process in finding help for himself and for you after he said he understands your standpoint?


----------



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

hubbyintrubby said:


> Has he done anything or started any kind of process in finding help for himself and for you after he said he understands your standpoint?


He is trying to do things that he normally doesn't but the pattern is everything is good for a bit until he gets triggered.


----------



## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

SLK said:


> He is trying to do things that he normally doesn't but the pattern is everything is good for a bit until he gets triggered.


So basically he's trying until he stops trying?


----------



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

hubbyintrubby said:


> So basically he's trying until he stops trying?


I guess so. I know that he can't help it and it's sometimes is out of his control. But after years of this, I'm so tired. Last few years I've been holding it together for my child


----------



## hubbyintrubby (Jul 5, 2019)

SLK said:


> I guess so. I know that he can't help it and it's sometimes is out of his control. But after years of this, I'm so tired. Last few years I've been holding it together for my child


Well...the answer is you can keep taking it, working around it, placating it until you can't anymore. It's all about what you can handle, and what you perceive is good for your child versus what is no longer good for your child.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SLK said:


> I have been dealing with my SO's mental health issues for years now. When we dated and first got married, it wasn't present. Ultimately, I know he is a good person and a good father. But when his issues are triggered, it manifests into anger. Never anything physically but the things that are said are definitely verbally abusive. He has sought help and thing have gotten better but these episodes are still there and bad. I am mentally and emotionally tired from years of verbal and mental abuse. ( Even if he didn't mean to be abusive.. let's call it what it is... ) and my child is getting old enough now and realizing things. I've asked for a divorce and now he's saying he finally understands my standpoint. That until now, he hasn't really been listening. That he will try and to give him this one last chance. Do I break this abusive cycle once and for all? Or for the sake of my child see if I can salvage this?


Well having grown up with a verbally abusive step father, it was hell. But it should be noted we were not bonded like father and son. He was just some stranger that was in my house yelling at everyone. If it's not his child, then you are not doing him any favors staying with this guy. 

I think it's up to you, your not wrong. If you are looking for a compromise, can you move out for a while? 

I believe in redemption and that people can change but that is really up to your SO.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SLK said:


> I guess so. I know that he can't help it and it's sometimes is out of his control. But after years of this, I'm so tired. Last few years I've been holding it together for my child


Now this I don't believe. If you had a gun when he was raging and shot him, or you were a man and beat the **** out of him he wouldn't do it again, he would control it just fine. I bet he doesn't rage at his boss. 

Can't control it is ********.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SLK said:


> I guess so. I know that he can't help it and it's sometimes is out of his control. But after years of this, I'm so tired. Last few years I've been holding it together for my child


I believe he is trying.
He knows he needs to try.

Trying is just a cover, a mask.
A mask for who he is.
He is an easily triggered, man.

On my planet, we call ourselves Martians.
We are under that Red Planet's influence.

Some, within reason.
Some, mostly within reason.
Some, flatly out of control. These types end up in prison or dead.

He cannot change who he is. (with anti-anxiety drugs, maybe, ugh!)
He can throttle back, choosing to do this.

As he ages, he may get more mellow.
Maybe, not certain, or maybe not soon enough!

If he drinks habitually, or if he does not get enough sleep, this makes it harder for him to rein in his temper.

No, excuses offered, just that Martian reality.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@SLK 

There is a cycle to this...that is to say a repeating pattern. Here is a visual of what that cycle is like:










Now I don't love the "batterer/victim" terminology here, but the cycle is right and it kind of shows what the abuser does or says...and what the abuse survivor does or says. Gradually, this cycle can get "bigger and BIGGER" so that right now there was whatever the last big explosion was and you said "I want a divorce." Now, the abuser is in BIG TIME "Honeymoon" stage which means that the abuser will say or do anything to woo the survivor back to make them stay in the cycle. 

Here's the way to tell if it's REAL or just fake promises: has there been a life-changing event such as court-ordered counseling, or individual therapy, or counseling with a pastor where the abuser took ALL of the responsibility for their actions, and "saw the light"? After the life-changing event, has the abuser continued to look at themself, do the work to change, and actually acted different WITHOUT PUTTING PRESSURE ON YOU? If not, then it is not real and it's a bunch of fake promises hoping to get you to stay in the cycle. 

But note something: there are two people participating in the cycle. The abuser does move A...the survivor move 1...the abuser does move B...the survivor move 2 and so on. YOU are the survivor. You are choosing to do move 1, 2, and 3 and stay in the cycle. You have the ability to break the cycle (at least for yourself), and in order to do so, all you need to do is stop doing your moves. Now, I guarantee you that the abuser will not be happy about the fact that you are no longer participating, but that is how you stop it. 

So if the abuser has not had (and stuck with) court-ordered counseling, or individual therapy, or counseling with a pastor where the abuser took ALL of the responsibility for their actions, and "saw the light"--then it is up to you to break this cycle. YOU go to individual therapy or counseling for abuse survivors. In my county we have a therapist who does a support group for victims of abuse--call your local law enforcement and ask them if there is such a support group in your area. Start to learn what IS and IS NOT abuse, and how to get out of it. Start to learn how YOU can change YOU and no longer be part of the cycle. 

Personally, I would say "I am going to live apart from you from this point forward because I'm not willing to subject myself to even the POSSIBILITY of your abuse. I will file for legal separation to protect myself and my financial rights. And I will give you one year to show me your change. In one year's time, I'll re-evaluate how the past year went and whether you actually grew or it was just empty words, and at that time I'll decide if I'm filing for divorce or willing to consider dating. What I will NOT do is put myself or our children in the line of fire any longer. That's non-negotiable." 

Hey you're in no rush. Get to safety. Don't listen to any words at all--they are empty. Only look at ACTIONS. Does he make his own counseling appointments, remember the appointment, get his butt there, do the work to look inside himself and figure out his anger, and practice healthy anger -OR- does he put off finding a therapist, "forget" his appointments, claim he needs you to help him, go sit there and do nothing to look inside, and continue trying to be abusive and blame you for his anger? Does he accept personal responsibility for his abuse, or does he say he did it because you XYZ? Does he express anger in a healthy way (this is not okay with me) or an unhealthy way (name-calling, belittling, raging)? Just WATCH for a year--don't listen, watch--and let that make your decision for you.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Now this I don't believe. If you had a gun when he was raging and shot him, or you were a man and beat the **** out of him he wouldn't do it again, he would control it just fine. I bet he doesn't rage at his boss.
> 
> Can't control it is ******.


Ya, had to say it!

I do not disagree...totally!

Phhlub!

But, how does this knowledge help her?
Should she club him senseless in his sleep!

In the older days, a ladies brothers would straighten him out.
Then came the lawyers!


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @SLK
> 
> There is a cycle to this...that is to say a repeating pattern. Here is a visual of what that cycle is like:
> 
> ...


Smarty pants!


----------



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

Affaircare said:


> @SLK
> 
> There is a cycle to this...that is to say a repeating pattern. Here is a visual of what that cycle is like:
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. He has been doing therapy on his own. When the cycle ends and he loses his temper, the blame is all placed on me. It's been a terrible cycle for the last few years. The distance between the explosions has been getting further apart. However, I'm tired. I just don't know if things will ever change. I struggle with this so much bc of my child.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Ya, had to say it!
> 
> I do not disagree...totally!
> 
> ...


I was talking hypothetically. I was certainly not advocating for that, now if I was God ....

I digress.

The point I was making still stands, if he had no control of himself then he is an immediate danger to society and should be locked in a padded room. Could you imagine how this could fly - "I can't help myself when I feel anger I just shoot people. I really have no control over it?" Yeah we put those people in jail. Why is this any different. 

Again the no control excuse is just that a ******** excuse. If anything it makes him a worse choice. That is basically saying you can't stop it.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

SLK said:


> Thank you for this. He has been doing therapy on his own. When the cycle ends and he loses his temper, the blame is all placed on me. It's been a terrible cycle for the last few years. The distance between the explosions has been getting further apart. However, I'm tired. I just don't know if things will ever change. I struggle with this so much bc of my child.


You have my permission to divorce him.

That, and 15 dollars will get you a coffee, just about everywhere.

Divorce, let your psyche heal, then find a sweet man to finish out life with.


----------



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

sokillme said:


> I was talking hypothetically. I was certainly not advocating for that, now if I was God ....
> 
> I digress.
> 
> ...


I understand the point you're making. It totally makes sense. It's probably also the comfortability aspect at home. Putting up with it so long it's probably become the norm.


----------



## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Right now your just getting lip service. Soon it will just return to scream service.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

SLK said:


> I understand the point you're making. It totally makes sense. It's probably also the comfortability aspect at home. Putting up with it so long it's probably become the norm.


The aggression is about power. It's to intimidate so they can get their own way or shut down discussion and compromise. It' is a planned strategy. Which is why when it's a boss, or there is the possibility of reprisal it goes away. It's why the fear of divorce will make it go away too. 

The point is unless it's not a personality disorder, it's never about a lack of control, actually it's always deliberate decision.


----------



## TomNebraska (Jun 14, 2016)

SLK said:


> Thank you for this. He has been doing therapy on his own. When the cycle ends and he loses his temper, the blame is all placed on me. It's been a terrible cycle for the last few years. The distance between the explosions has been getting further apart. However, I'm tired. I just don't know if things will ever change. I struggle with this so much bc of my child.


Are you keeping track? 

I started doing that during my past marriage, b/c I would honestly forget how often my XW and I would fight. 

If you're really seeing progress, that's at least something. Fewer fights is good. 

In my own case, I remember telling people things were getting better, and then I started believing that. when I went back and looked at my journal, I saw how often we had still been fighting/not speaking to eachother/silent treatment, and I was surprised. I had started to normalize the behavior. It was like in any given month, we were either fighting or not talking anywhere from 1/3 to 2/5 of the time.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

My response to the question posed, "When is it enough?" is this: When the pain of staying exceeds the pain of leaving, you'll know.

I'm not sure what "mental health issues" means. Has he been formally diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder? Does he take medication(s)? What exactly triggers him?


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

SLK said:


> I guess so. *I know that he can't help it and it's sometimes is out of his control.* But after years of this, I'm so tired. Last few years I've been holding it together for my child


Oh no no no no no NO. That is BS honey. Does he do it to his boss? His colleagues? Strangers in the street? I'm betting no.

He is absolutely responsible for everything he says and does, as are we all. I'm really sick and tired of "mental illness" being used to excuse absolutely appalling behaviour. Mental Health has become to go to these days, to justify just about anything.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

SLK said:


> I have been dealing with my SO's mental health issues for years now. When we dated and first got married, it wasn't present. Ultimately, I know he is a good person and a good father. But when his issues are triggered, it manifests into anger. Never anything physically but the things that are said are definitely verbally abusive. He has sought help and thing have gotten better but these episodes are still there and bad. I am mentally and emotionally tired from years of verbal and mental abuse. ( Even if he didn't mean to be abusive.. let's call it what it is... ) and my child is getting old enough now and realizing things. I've asked for a divorce and now he's saying he finally understands my standpoint. That until now, he hasn't really been listening. That he will try and to give him this one last chance. Do I break this abusive cycle once and for all? Or for the sake of my child see if I can salvage this?


Does he have a diagnosed mental issue? Or does he just have a bad temper and poor communication skills?

If he has a real diagnosed mental issue the behaviors will probably come back unless he gets real treatment and medication.


----------



## Violet28 (Oct 4, 2018)

Do you want your child to start acting this way or learn that it is ok for someone to talk to him/her or you this way?


----------



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

TomNebraska said:


> Are you keeping track?
> 
> I started doing that during my past marriage, b/c I would honestly forget how often my XW and I would fight.
> 
> ...


I haven't been writing it down in a journal but it has become less. Before it was every 2 to 3 weeks and it's would last for days or even over a week straight. Now it occurs maybe once every 2 months or so and usually resolves in a day. With that being said, there are still frequent frustrations or outbursts that he recognizes and it resolves right away. At this point, I'm mentally exhausted and it's Starting to affect me physically. However, I go back to if it is worth it to try for my child.


----------



## SLK (Mar 2, 2021)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Does he have a diagnosed mental issue? Or does he just have a bad temper and poor communication skills?
> 
> If he has a real diagnosed mental issue the behaviors will probably come back unless he gets real treatment and medication.


Yes it is diagnosed. Not on meds but seeing a therapist regularly. I do think it's a combination of the mental illness, poor communication skills and the frustration from life/ mental illness manifests into anger. During the times when he's not having these "episodes" he acts completely normal.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

SLK said:


> Yes it is diagnosed. Not on meds but seeing a therapist regularly. I do think it's a combination of the mental illness, poor communication skills and the frustration from life/ mental illness manifests into anger. During the times when he's not having these "episodes" he acts completely normal.


Well you've asked for a divorce so the question is are you beyond the point of no return meaning are you feelings towards him at a point you think you cannot get back to how you felt when you married him? It's likely he will always have some episodes of bad behavior so will you ever be able to be happy with him. I'm assuming you have thought about this and decided no. If the answer is no then you'll probably never be really happy in this marriage.


----------

