# Wife broached OM. The why pains me...long post



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

I feel like this could belong in three different topic forums so I'll start here.

I'll lay this all out the best I can, so sorry for the length. Better for me to say everything to get the advice I'm looking for. 

If you bear with me on this, I thank you..if not TLDR on the bottom.

Back Story

We've been together for over three years, married for just over a year. Had our first kid this year. We're in our mid-late 20s

We fell in love, we're in love as far as I feel. We have a great relationship/marriage. We're spontaneous, we're fun, we open up about a lot of things, come up with and have adventures. She's helped me evolve into what I am now and I love her so much for that. We both wanted to get married. She didn't want to have kids at first but in time she couldn't imagine not having a kid with me, having a family. She's everything I want.

Our sex life is great, she turns me right on, I turn her on. I get her off every time, she gets me off every time. We **** several times a week, sometimes several times a day. We do a lot, try different things, make it kinky, we both enjoy it immensely.

There's a few things we're different about that we've known about each other all along. I'm a traditional guy when it comes to marriage, with some bending here or there. I want to everything I can for her, I always want her happy. Every day she gives me a rush, butterflies, the 'spark' they say. I can't believe after the ups and downs of my life I found someone who wants to be with me for the rest of my life.

She is the same way, she can't believe I found her and fell in love with her. I make her happy, make her enjoy life. She's had a lot of issues, parents separated, mental things (ADD/ADHD/OCD/ODD), abusive relationships. I accept her for all of that, in fact she's been off the meds, she still has quirks related to some of those things but are just part of who she is, I love and accept her for all of it.

OM Discussion

She identifies her self as very open sexually. She has no problem with trying different things, we have done so together. She finds men and women attractive, that's totally fine. She brought up her messing with girls a while back, I was apprehensive and she was okay with it and dropped the topic. 

We grew more in our relationship and I accepted that she could have a girl, with or without me. She wanted to have a threesome with me and with caution, accepted. It turned out to be fun, I enjoyed sharing the girl with her, experience it WITH her. I didn't get a new found want for new girls. It turned her on that I did it, and that's awesome but I don't need it.

So last week while in bed she asked what I thought about a threesome with a guy. I said I couldn't do that, it doesn't sit well with me, it's not in me, I don't want to do that with her, I'd be emotionally damaged. So she asked about if we could agree on her alone with a guy. I said no, I can't do that, not now, possibly not ever. I got defensive about it asking why should would like another guy, she said just as with girls, she wants to experience everything and everyone, sexually or otherwise. Ever since then I wanted to know why. _When I asked her why in bed, she said she gets a rush of looking for someone new and having sex, to get a rush, to get sparks._ She had a very active sex life before me, which gave her that.

The Fight

Four days ago. I asked if there's something I'm not doing to her to give her a rush before or during sex, or in general. She said she just doesn't get the rush anymore. Of me wooing her before sex, flirting with her, teasing her through the day, turning her on, or non-sexual things I do for her, it's just gone. _I turn her on by the action, giving her foreplay and is satisfied when we ****, but there's no rush anymore from her knowing I want to do that, or in doing it. I get those sparks, I get the rush of of being attracted to her, turning her on and pleasing her, just being hers and her mine._ I told her that, she didn't believe me at first, says there's no way, everyone loses it, everyone talks about it. Then after finally getting through to her that I truly do, she felt like ****, like I see her as less of a person. I told her I don't love her any different._ I'm worried, but I want to help her get that rush, just not in a way that it'll destroy me._ _She said she doesn't know how, it's always gone away for her after a few months in relationships. _ 

During the fight she said she had a feeling she shouldn't have approached the topic. Wished that she wouldn't have gotten married, or could had the mindset to go through it without my knowledge, which of course made me feel even worse.

The Why

Sex itself as just an extinct, which I get, she does too. But her wanting a rush, the butterflies from another guy, I equate that to needing and creating emotions with someone else, what else could it be? I can't have that, I don't want that. I want to give that to her. I don't want another guy in her, maybe I shouldn't have had a threesome with her and a girl. Saying no to that would have put us in this place at some point anyways.

_She doesn't currently want therapy, or to be put on meds, that puts her back to thinking about being on meds through most her life, when she hated herself. I don't know what to do then, she doesn't know what I can do otherwise, thinks that's the only solution, that anything beyond therapy or meds won't help._

*TLDR; *Doesn't have the rush/butterflies from me anymore in any form, I still do. Might not want to seek help to find that again due to past life issues, wants find to screw other guys to get that rush from a new person. I can't accept it because of my morals. I want to help. We're trying to forget and reset but I'm afraid of what's going to happen.


I'm stuck. I want to help her, I don't know how. She said that nothing's going to happen, she doesn't want to leave me, wants to grow old together. I know now that she wants that rush though, and right now her only solution is to find it from other people, other guys, I'm lost and scared. I want her to feel how I feel about her every day, I don't want to lose that feeling. Now it's like I'm pushing her away because it's something I can't handle.

Her not knowing what I can do or wanting to accept to try and find out how to fix it makes it that much worse, that we're stuck in her wanting the rush her way, me not wanting it, her at the moment making the sacrifice and resenting me for the rest of her life, or me letting it happen and ruining myself emotionally, and resenting her for the rest of my life. We had an argument about it yesterday and the day before too. I just want to help, we get defensive and it spirals out of control.

Has anyone else experienced this? I wish I knew what to do right now, I love her so much and want to help but I can only go so far.:crying:


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You made a mistake letting another woman in because now she can hold it over your head and you look selfish. You got to fvck another woman but she can't fvck another guy. If you'd said no she might have been upset but you'd still have firm boundaries, which now you don't.

You can try marriage counseling but it doesn't sound like she's marriage material right now. 

I suppose she deserves kudos for at least being honest. I'll predict she'll get her other guy, it'll just be behind your back and she'll justify it because you got another woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LostinNE (Aug 31, 2015)

Was talking sort of about that in my thread "Sex: Take it or Leave it", yesterday. Me and my W have been together for 18 years and married for 12. I've lusted for her since we met and haven't stopped. But the feeling isn't mutual. We've only had sex with each other. She's never showed interest in going outside the marriage as far as I know, but even still, I'm just not shiny n new anymore, so she has no desire. Sucks.

You two go on 'adventures' anymore? Go to new places and experience new things? Sometimes that can rekindle a spark (......so I've heard haha) Doesnt do much in my case though


----------



## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

This is marriage. There are ebbs and flows. Sometimes you are so much in love, and butterflies and sometimes, its just affection. It's sweet and loving. And sometimes you just want to kill him. 

Your marriage is never going to stay the same. It's always evolving. Most people think that romantic love will stay the same in a marriage, it does not. What stays is the deep affection and respect. Building your life together and growing together. 

Your wife is chasing the romantic high of when you first fall in love. The chasing and uncertainty. This may be even more impactful on her because of her ADD etc., which might affect her impulse controls. 

You have been a very supportive husband. I applaud you for being so open to share everything. When you open the door for a threesome with a F, you wife thought it was thrown open for everything. 

Now you have to work to understand (for her to understand, as well) what the new boundaries are. What you are will to do and not to do. You discuss your deal breakers and how you both feel about these things.

I know for a fact, if I were intimate with another man, my husband would never look at me the same way. And he would not want me again. ITs fine for him to have his FFM threesome fantasy and I am ok with that. NO other woman will touch him.

The important thing in marriage is boundaries. Don't let anyone, no matter how much you love them, put you in a position that goes against your values and what makes you a man.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

The "honeymoon phase" ends eventually.

If she is one who is going to be chasing butterflies you may want to think of an exit strategy.
You brought the other woman in and that was wrong but long term marriage is not all butterflies but can be quite fun.

She will be going through men like me with pizza.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Been with my wife for 24 years and we still have the hots for each other.

Your wife has a pretty common problem.

It is a problem.

She apparently doesn't want to do anything about it besides destroy her marriage and ruin her child's chances at a successful life.

There is a book that might help to understand some of what she is experiencing. It is "What Women Want" by Daniel Bergner.
I would advise counseling as I don't believe the book can help resolve all of her issues.

Marriage and attraction take work in the vast majority of relationships.

Time to get to work or, unfortunately, get an amicable divorce.

The way she is now, you are not compatible and, honestly, most men would not be compatible with who she is now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

the beautiful thing about marriage is that it is understood (99% of the time) to be an exclusive relationship.

in doing so, you give up a lot of things. we can't have everything. we can have marriage or we can have a freewheeling lifestyle.
sex between couples more often than not gets boring after a few months or years.
that does not negate the wonder of it. we ought to embrace it and see it as a challenge as well as a blessing.

it's in giving that we receive. in other words, marriage is a lot more than satisfying our needs.

i hope your wife gets that and is ready to accept that fully and completely.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Ah the joys of being young and having NO IDEA about the long tern consequences of your actions and thinking that society is now much more progressive than it used to be. 

I'll just say this... wait until your kid grows up and she encourages them to be "open" with their love life as well. I have seen this happen with some friends of ours as he married a wild one and bragged, and now she is turning his kids into wild ones and it is tearing the dad apart to watch it happen. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

badsanta said:


> Ah the joys of being young and having NO IDEA about the long tern consequences of your actions and thinking that society is now much more progressive than it used to be.
> 
> I'll just say this... wait until your kid grows up and she encourages them to be "open" with their love life as well. I have seen this happen with some friends of ours as he married a wild one and bragged, and now she is turning his kids into wild ones and it is tearing the dad apart to watch it happen.
> 
> ...


:surprise:
Life lessons.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like you fell for the ol' "threesome trap"; she offers up another woman, you accept, and now you "owe" her a bit of OM.

Make no mistake, this was calculated. She knew that you'd say no to a threesome w/ another guy but figured that she'd be able to wear down your resolve w/ respect to allowing her some one-on-one playtime w/ some other dude. Or dudes. Additionally, she's probably already got at least a couple picked out... and may have even started "playing" behind your back.

Honestly, if having a constant string of sexual partners is so important to her that she can't live w/o it, then you should just divorce and let her have it.

Hope the wedding didn't cost too much.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like you fell for the ol' "threesome trap"; she offers up another woman, you accept, and now you "owe" her a bit of OM.
> 
> Make no mistake, this was calculated. She knew that you'd say no to a threesome w/ another guy but figured that she'd be able to wear down your resolve w/ respect to allowing her some one-on-one playtime w/ some other dude. Or dudes. Additionally, she's probably already got at least a couple picked out... and may have even started "playing" behind your back.
> 
> ...


Listen OP...
We feel for you.
This will sting but imo Gus nailed it.
Get out with minimal damage get ic and take your time with dating.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The addition of "a threesome" within the sexual confines of a marriage is the preeminent death knell of that marriage, albeit old or new!

Color me old-fashioned, but I simply cannot fathom lovemaking with another member of either sex present when I'm making love to my wife! Just saying!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> You made a mistake letting another woman in because now she can hold it over your head and you look selfish. You got to fvck another woman but she can't fvck another guy. If you'd said no she might have been upset but you'd still have firm boundaries, which now you don't.
> 
> You can try marriage counseling but it doesn't sound like she's marriage material right now.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Indeed, I remember telling her in our fight that this created a monster by accepting it. Now to accept the probable consequences. Kudos for sure....her honesty is part of why we are together....


LostinNE said:


> Was talking sort of about that in my thread "Sex: Take it or Leave it", yesterday. Me and my W have been together for 18 years and married for 12. I've lusted for her since we met and haven't stopped. But the feeling isn't mutual. We've only had sex with each other. She's never showed interest in going outside the marriage as far as I know, but even still, I'm just not shiny n new anymore, so she has no desire. Sucks.
> 
> You two go on 'adventures' anymore? Go to new places and experience new things? Sometimes that can rekindle a spark (......so I've heard haha) Doesnt do much in my case though


That's great that you still lust for her, obv I can relate. Can only last so long for others I guess.

We do still go on adventures, we backpacked along lake superior and went to Chicago in the last two weeks. 



brooklynAnn said:


> This is marriage. There are ebbs and flows. Sometimes you are so much in love, and butterflies and sometimes, its just affection. It's sweet and loving. And sometimes you just want to kill him.
> 
> Your marriage is never going to stay the same. It's always evolving. Most people think that romantic love will stay the same in a marriage, it does not. What stays is the deep affection and respect. Building your life together and growing together.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I see it now, that my boundary was crossed with the ffm, I knew deep down this would go wrong. I just don't know now how or when to bring it up, since we're both heated about this now. I don't want anything outside of us to happen anymore, easier said than done. Absolutely her past has some to do with it, coping with it is the best way I guess.


tom67 said:


> The "honeymoon phase" ends eventually.
> 
> If she is one who is going to be chasing butterflies you may want to think of an exit strategy.
> You brought the other woman in and that was wrong but long term marriage is not all butterflies but can be quite fun.
> ...


Yeah, it's bound to lose its luster. We both don't want to separate. Maybe it's best to let her go have her fling, suck it up and work it out.


ConanHub said:


> Been with my wife for 24 years and we still have the hots for each other.
> 
> Your wife has a pretty common problem.
> 
> ...


Best get to work then. She is attracted to me, have to accept the way she is now and hope for the best, see which way she wants to go. If things go south...will just tackle it then. An ending gives me fear, but isn't permanent.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

If you agree to allow your wife to sleep with another man, count on it being plural (MEN). She won't stop if you give her permission.

Your best bet is to tell her your boundary and then monitor her closely. She may very well cheat on you and your marriage MAY BE OVER.

If you agree to allow your wife to sleep with another man, your marriage WILL BE OVER.


----------



## Dycedarg (Apr 17, 2014)

I'm sorry you're going through this. 

It really doesn't look good. If you let her sleep with someone else she will never respect you. It sounds like she didn't to begin with. 

You really shouldn't have had that threesome if you weren't willing to engage in the other kind. 

There's little doubt in my mind that she orchestrated this by luring you with that in the first place, however. The bottom line is she's not marriage material. That doesn't mean she's necessarily a bad person, but that she shouldn't be married if these are the kinds of things she wants. 

Best of luck. Again, I am sorry you're having to go through this. Learn as much as you can and move forward.


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> the beautiful thing about marriage is that it is understood (99% of the time) to be an exclusive relationship.
> 
> in doing so, you give up a lot of things. we can't have everything. we can have marriage or we can have a freewheeling lifestyle.
> sex between couples more often than not gets boring after a few months or years.
> ...


That's how I came in to it, accepting everything and sacrificing everything. I'm pretty confident the initial conversations of experiencing other people wasn't malicious, but man has it surely gone that way. Regrets, regrets.. I hope she's ready at some point, I want to have the talk before it goes too far, just don't know when being 12 hours post most recent fight.


badsanta said:


> Ah the joys of being young and having NO IDEA about the long tern consequences of your actions and thinking that society is now much more progressive than it used to be.
> 
> I'll just say this... wait until your kid grows up and she encourages them to be "open" with their love life as well. I have seen this happen with some friends of ours as he married a wild one and bragged, and now she is turning his kids into wild ones and it is tearing the dad apart to watch it happen.
> 
> ...


Indeed, life story. Thanks. I know she'll never encourage our kids to do it, she knows it morally wrong for most. It's a double standard.


GusPolinski said:


> Sounds like you fell for the ol' "threesome trap"; she offers up another woman, you accept, and now you "owe" her a bit of OM.
> 
> Make no mistake, this was calculated. She knew that you'd say no to a threesome w/ another guy but figured that she'd be able to wear down your resolve w/ respect to allowing her some one-on-one playtime w/ some other dude. Or dudes. Additionally, she's probably already got at least a couple picked out... and may have even started "playing" behind your back.
> 
> ...


Indeed it was calculated, she told me that much. She thought we were secure enough in each other to be open to it and give it a try. Whether or not I allow it, still hurts to hear it, let alone fear it to happen, it's most likely out of my control, just have to give a talk one more try and hope she understands. Wishing the ffm never happened, hindsight.

It didn't, we went to a national park and just brought our parents, so hey, just gas money.


tom67 said:


> Listen OP...
> We feel for you.
> This will sting but imo Gus nailed it.
> Get out with minimal damage get ic and take your time with dating.


Thanks, it does sting a little. It will either work itself out...or won't.


arbitrator said:


> *The addition of "a threesome" within the sexual confines of a marriage is the preeminent death knell of that marriage, albeit old or new!
> 
> Color me old-fashioned, but I simply cannot fathom lovemaking with another member of either sex present when I'm making love to my wife! Just saying!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was old fashioned until I caved...I had my morals in line until then. I hear ya.


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

Thank you all for the replies...positive or negative 



SadSamIAm said:


> If you agree to allow your wife to sleep with another man, count on it being plural (MEN). She won't stop if you give her permission.
> 
> Your best bet is to tell her your boundary and then monitor her closely. She may very well cheat on you and your marriage MAY BE OVER.
> 
> If you agree to allow your wife to sleep with another man, your marriage WILL BE OVER.


Yeah, I am afraid of that. I'd love to make it even since she got her way via me being involved, as much as it sucks now, but even with her understanding if we have that talk, the mental past makes it very possible for it to spiral insanely out of control...a la plural. It's hard to reconcile that she has these urges, doesn't want to ruin us, but wants me to accept it.


Dycedarg said:


> I'm sorry you're going through this.
> 
> It really doesn't look good. If you let her sleep with someone else she will never respect you. It sounds like she didn't to begin with.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I really shouldn't have. For sure, conscious or not it looks like I was lured. She admitted herself that it would have been best to not get married...to not have fallen in love with me, she doesn't regret falling in love with me but can't reconcile the urges. I'll move forward from this somehow.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

It comes down to this. Three in a bed makes for a bad marriage. Yeah some people can work through it and make it work but only if it's mutual and rules are made and not broken but for the most part that type of thing is far and few.

The way I see it, she knows how much you "lust" for her and she'll keep pushing for her way hoping you'll finally get worn down and accept it. 

If you do there's no guarantee that it will stop with one. The difference is when you had the threesome with you and the OW, she was involved with the OW just like you were but in the MFM threesome it isn't like that. Your mistake was going through the first threesome and now she's pushing the envelope. 

My advice to you is stand firm. let her know that the threesome was a one time thing. You both had your fun and if she can't stay true to her marriage with you then many a bad day is coming her way.

It's one thing to wanting to make your wife happy and it's another thing to be taken advantage of and if you keep backing up to her whims, your going to find yourself boxed in and in a situation that will end the marriage.

Time for you to put the brakes on this little party and get back to just you and her and let her know in a way that she understands what you mean.

I have to tell you though that you better keep an eye on her because she might not respect your wishes and go behind your back.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

@Wandering About, at this point you should probably accept that -- even if you don't go along w/ your wife's vision for your marriage -- she's going to do it anyway. And she may or may not be honest about it going forward.

And, actually, would the marriage be _fully_ open? Would you have the freedom to seek sexual fulfillment outside your marriage as well?


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

One thing I picked up on, from the original post, is that she bats both ways. This is either a lie or a deception to force the OP into a position he doesn't want (MMF). That type of deception is pretty damn crappy. If she is willing to lie or deceive for this, what else is she lying and deceiving about?


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> One thing I picked up on, from the original post, is that she bats both ways. This is either a lie or a deception to force the OP into a position he doesn't want (MMF). That type of deception is pretty damn crappy. If she is willing to lie or deceive for this, what else is she lying and deceiving about?


Don't completely agree with this. Women are fluid this way but lots of women who don't really bat both ways go along with it because a lot of men want it. 

In fact a lot of men have tunnel vision when it comes to another woman. .... they ger so wrapped up in the idea of fvcking another woman that it doesn't occur to them that their wife will want another man. The balance is now tipped here because he's had his fun. .... he knows it was a mistake but the box has been opened. 

He had the option to say no but went along with it because it had some level of appeal to him, and if he wasn't willing to go along with another man he should've made that clear.

As for her she's been quite honest, but I think she will untimately go being his back and justify it was getting what he got. 


I'll admit I wonder if we'd get the same responses if we flipped genders: what if my hb wanted to watch another man fvck me and I went along with it, and now he wants another woman and I object. Would I be told it's only fair? I don't pose thi to be nasty, I'm genuinely curious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't completely agree with this. Women are fluid this way but lots of women who don't really bat both ways go along with it because a lot of men want it.
> 
> In fact a lot of men have tunnel vision when it comes to another woman. .... they ger so wrapped up in the idea of fvcking another woman that it doesn't occur to them that their wife will want another man. The balance is now tipped here because he's had his fun. .... he knows it was a mistake but the box has been opened.
> 
> ...


The OPs last post basically states she admits to using the MFF to 'force' him into a MMF. Hence my post. I should have put that in there as well. You see this situation as blaming the man for not expecting the turnabout, but imo, the woman is lying and being manipulative. How/why should he expect her hidden contract?


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> The OPs last post basically states she admits to using the MFF to 'force' him into a MMF. Hence my post. I should have put that in there as well. You see this situation as blaming the man for not expecting the turnabout, but imo, the woman is lying and being manipulative. How/why should he expect her hidden contract?


Now see if that's true then she doesn't necessarily bat both ways. I see it as joint failure. ....true she shouldn't have set up a covert contract but he was willing to go along with it as long as it appealed to him. Now he's left holding the hypocrite card and he knows it. Unfortunately that bell can't be unwrung.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Average Joe (Sep 2, 2015)

You guys are so young. So much growing up happens in our 20s. Things we thought we wanted, we realize it was sorta messed up.

I would insist on an argument that you both enjoyed the FFM and let it go, and focus on each other and your child. I get the vibe that maybe you have the fortitude to work through this.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

I once had an LTR offer up a 3-some with another woman. And I said no. She was a bit shocked and asked why.

I said "sure, it would all be fun when it happens and then you'd get jealous. And even if you didn't, then you'd ask for a 3-some with another man. And while I could conceivable accept you having other women in your life, I wouldn't tolerate you having other men and stay in a relationship with you."

To which she said "that isn't really fair, is it? If I had a threesome with another woman, I should be able to have a threesome with another man. "

And I said "that's what this is really about, isn't it? You can have a threesome with another man, I just won't be one of them, nor will I be with you."

And then I dumped her, because I knew she wasn't ready for just one man in her life, or I wasn't the man for her.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Wandering about,

There is a long term component to this as well, and that is 10 or 20 years from now will your W use this as a justification for cheating on you? I ask this because by then you may own a home, more children, etc and a divorce may be a bigger life crushing event.

Was the OW in the threesome in a committed relationship and was this kept secret from her partner? This may involve more than just you and your W. 

Also is this OW completely out of your life as in no contact?

Something to consider
New Study Claims People Who've Had More Sexual Partners Report Unhappier Marriages

Tamat


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i once had a girlfriend (or dated a girl maybe more precisely) that told me on the second date: "just to let you know, i'm not a one man gal".

man was that refreshing. once she told me that, i was a bit disappointed but once the shock wore off i was fine with that and appreciative that she
would never go behind my back. i decided to keep seeing her, because although i knew she was not LTR material for me, i liked her enough to keep seeing her because it was fun.

see? i didn't dump her, get wigged out, or try at all to talk her otherwise. that's who she was. i could take it or leave it.
i took it for a while, before i moved on.

i wish more women (and men, not to pick on one gender) would be more up front and honest from the get go, and just say 'i like to be with more than one dude(dudess)'.

for heaven sake DONT get married to someone who thinks otherwise!


----------



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't completely agree with this. Women are fluid this way but lots of women who don't really bat both ways go along with it because a lot of men want it.
> 
> In fact a lot of men have tunnel vision when it comes to another woman. .... they ger so wrapped up in the idea of fvcking another woman that it doesn't occur to them that their wife will want another man. The balance is now tipped here because he's had his fun. .... he knows it was a mistake but the box has been opened.
> 
> ...


I agree with both your and Dave's opinion.

Here's another way they should look at it.

OP was ok with ffm involving him and his wife, his W was ok with that arrangement and they both consented and proceeded with it. No boundary issues.

OP is not ok with mmf, thus he is not consenting to it. Nor is he willing to consent to his W with an OM. Boundary established.

There is no leverage or negotiation here, a marriage partnership has, and still does, always require the consent of both to continue. No boundaries have been breached. Further, there is no law that states nobody is ever allowed to move their own boundaries, but the OP hasn't done that, or if he has it is in fact to no longer allow even a ffm. For his W to try to get him to move his own boundaries isn't respectful at all, and when one partner disrespects the other's boundaries it is no longer a functioning partnership.

In the future, the OP may choose to move his boundaries, and so too may his W, as long as they both are willing to respect each other's boundaries then they have a marriage, if either disregards their partners' boundary the marriage is over.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

marduk said:


> I once had an LTR offer up a 3-some with another woman. And I said no. She was a bit shocked and asked why.
> 
> I said "sure, it would all be fun when it happens and then you'd get jealous. And even if you didn't, then you'd ask for a 3-some with another man. And while I could conceivable accept you having other women in your life, I wouldn't tolerate you having other men and stay in a relationship with you."
> 
> ...


Solid reasoning, and I'm right there w/ you.

That said, my gut feeling is that most woman that offer up MFF in anticipation of some sort of reciprocation probably aren't looking for MMF but rather MF... but w/ a different "M".


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Wandering about:


> She is the same way, she can't believe I found her and fell in love with her. I make her happy, make her enjoy life. She's had a lot of issues, parents separated, mental things (ADD/ADHD/OCD/ODD), abusive relationships. I accept her for all of that, in fact she's been off the meds, she still has quirks related to some of those things but are just part of who she is, I love and accept her for all of it.


As a result of all of this you are going to have to accept much much more. Question is...how much more will you accept?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Don't completely agree with this. Women are fluid this way but lots of women who don't really bat both ways go along with it because a lot of men want it.
> 
> In fact a lot of men have tunnel vision when it comes to another woman. .... they ger so wrapped up in the idea of fvcking another woman that it doesn't occur to them that their wife will want another man. The balance is now tipped here because he's had his fun. .... he knows it was a mistake but the box has been opened.
> 
> ...


Eh... not really. After all, she saved the MMF discussion until AFTER the MFF had already gone down*. That's _at least_ a covert contract.

Now... should the "MFF, therefore MMF" discussion have occurred BEFORE the MFF occurred? Well yeah. Duh.

But let's be real -- she didn't bring it up because she knew it would get shot down. That or she figured she'd have a better chance of convincing OP AFTER an MFF. Or she doesn't even WANT an MMF and instead just wants MF w/ a different "M".

As for why OP didn't broach the subject? Well, like you said... tunnel vision**.



lifeistooshort said:


> ...but I think she will untimately go being his back and justify it was getting what he got.


Agreed.



lifeistooshort said:


> I'll admit I wonder if we'd get the same responses if we flipped genders: what if my hb wanted to watch another man fvck me and I went along with it, and now he wants another woman and I object. Would I be told it's only fair? I don't pose thi to be nasty, I'm genuinely curious.


I'd like to think that the same folks calling BS here would be singing the same tune were the genders reversed. I know I would.





* Giggity!

** After a bit of discussion, the judges have decided to award a second "Giggity!"


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Eh... not really. After all, she saved the MMF discussion until AFTER the MFF had already gone down*. That's _at least_ a covert contract.
> 
> Now... should the "MFF, therefore MMF" discussion have occurred BEFORE the MFF occurred? Well yeah. Duh.
> 
> ...


Exactly. She is being extremely manipulative. I would not stand for it.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Color me old-fashioned, but I simply cannot fathom lovemaking with another member of either sex present when I'm making love to my wife! Just saying!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's kinda like something you and a buddy would do with a hooker when you're younger. (than I am anyway)


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

6301 said:


> It comes down to this. Three in a bed makes for a bad marriage. Yeah some people can work through it and make it work but only if it's mutual and rules are made and not broken but for the most part that type of thing is far and few.
> 
> The way I see it, she knows how much you "lust" for her and she'll keep pushing for her way hoping you'll finally get worn down and accept it.
> 
> ...


That's exactly how I understood it, a one time thing. We mutually agreed to do this together, and it took me quite the time to accept it in the first place. I had my reservations but in the end wanted her to have the experience she wanted. As I said in the OP, it was fun but it wasn't really my thing, my objective was to enjoy what she wanted, she found the girl. I admitted to her it was a mistake, That I didn't expect this hand to be dealt to me. 

No matter how much I am conflicting in my head that I want her to stay happy and not resent me, I never wanted to agree to anything anymore. Standing firm for our baby and by proxy the marriage.


GusPolinski said:


> @Wandering About, at this point you should probably accept that -- even if you don't go along w/ your wife's vision for your marriage -- she's going to do it anyway. And she may or may not be honest about it going forward.
> 
> And, actually, would the marriage be _fully_ open? Would you have the freedom to seek sexual fulfillment outside your marriage as well?


I'm trying to accept that fate, even if she tells me otherwise. Though knowing her enough, she takes guilt quite badly...just like she did when she understood my still burning fire for her. So if it happens, it's a matter of time..partly the reason I mentioned her mental past, she's honest, but impulsive, but after the fact not able to live with herself. She would want it to be mutually open, I could go find other girls if I wanted.


naiveonedave said:


> One thing I picked up on, from the original post, is that she bats both ways. This is either a lie or a deception to force the OP into a position he doesn't want (MMF). That type of deception is pretty damn crappy. If she is willing to lie or deceive for this, what else is she lying and deceiving about?


Before the topic of actually wanting an FFM (which has been her 2 year desire), she always said she found girls attractive/hot, but never did anything clothes off before our thing. Who knows about the lie or deception...during our bedside talk about it she said she thought I would handle the idea better post-FFM.


lifeistooshort said:


> Don't completely agree with this. Women are fluid this way but lots of women who don't really bat both ways go along with it because a lot of men want it.
> 
> In fact a lot of men have tunnel vision when it comes to another woman. .... they ger so wrapped up in the idea of fvcking another woman that it doesn't occur to them that their wife will want another man. The balance is now tipped here because he's had his fun. .... he knows it was a mistake but the box has been opened.
> 
> ...


I get that, women being fluid. Though this was completely her idea, my tunnel vision is squarely on her. Being that it took nearly 2 years between the first conversation we had of her wanting to try girls with or without me, to my eventual acceptance of what got us to this dichotomy. Agreed, it was fun and interesting, but it's not what I wanted to persist because of what could end up happening with our emotions, . I guess the tunnel vision on her desire left me blind of it going to wanting to try a man. Her wanting it is one thing, which I still decline. Her wanting it because she needs that emotional rush or spark...makes the situation even worse.


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

W.A. whether you know it or not you're on a run a way train and there ain't no stopping it. Take my word for it Dawg, when they start the "I need to experience another man (partner)", you either turn into a cuckold, betrayed spouse, or a once again single guy. There ain't a fourth choice. You may not like it, but at least you won't be surprised when, one way or the other, you share her with another man.
Its a little late for you now, but it sounds like she'd been a fun casual girlfriend but a crappy wife. The award winning wives (or those that you'd marry all over again) don't bang other people. 
You got snookered.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> Solid reasoning, and I'm right there w/ you.
> 
> That said, my gut feeling is that most woman that offer up MFF in anticipation of some sort of reciprocation probably aren't looking for MMF but rather MF... but w/ a different "M".


I dunno.

I think a MMF 3-some is on probably more women's bucket lists than we may think. I polled my girl friends (that were just friends) once when single and perhaps 70% of them said they'd be up for it.

Surprisingly, about the same amount as a FFM 3-some, and 100% for a FF tryst. With the right women and application of booze, of course.


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

Average Joe said:


> You guys are so young. So much growing up happens in our 20s. Things we thought we wanted, we realize it was sorta messed up.
> 
> I would insist on an argument that you both enjoyed the FFM and let it go, and focus on each other and your child. I get the vibe that maybe you have the fortitude to work through this.


This is very true. I admitted it was fun and enjoyed it with her. I do have the fortitude, the balance of waiting for the anger to cool and getting the level-headed talk in before something might happen..is very thin I worry.


marduk said:


> I once had an LTR offer up a 3-some with another woman. And I said no. She was a bit shocked and asked why.
> 
> I said "sure, it would all be fun when it happens and then you'd get jealous. And even if you didn't, then you'd ask for a 3-some with another man. And while I could conceivable accept you having other women in your life, I wouldn't tolerate you having other men and stay in a relationship with you."
> 
> ...


That is a perfect response, one I should have had all along.


TAMAT said:


> There is a long term component to this as well, and that is 10 or 20 years from now will your W use this as a justification for cheating on you? I ask this because by then you may own a home, more children, etc and a divorce may be a bigger life crushing event.
> 
> Was the OW in the threesome in a committed relationship and was this kept secret from her partner? This may involve more than just you and your W.
> 
> ...


After her being adamant that she isn't going to do anything, that's her thought, that many years down the line we'll regret not exploring things and resent each other. As for the OW, she wasn't according to the OW. 

Yes she is not in my life. I never had contact with her leading up to or afterwards, wife showed me pics and told me about her ect...


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> That's kinda like something you and a buddy would do with a hooker when you're younger. (than I am anyway)


*I had a pair of college frat brothers brag about having done that, but I must have been raised just too "straight-laced!" 

I never really had a burning desire to do threesome sex. As close as I came was in college when one Sunday night at the frat house, I looked through an open bedroom door where a frater was busy banging a chick on the foot of his bed. He asked me to give her "something to suck" while he finished up and I never looked by saying for her to just "suck her thumb!"

IMHO, there is just no romance in a participative threesome ~ None!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

jorgegene said:


> i once had a girlfriend (or dated a girl maybe more precisely) that told me on the second date: "just to let you know, i'm not a one man gal".


If that is my case, I wish I would have known that in the first place.


Lon said:


> Here's another way they should look at it.
> 
> OP was ok with ffm involving him and his wife, his W was ok with that arrangement and they both consented and proceeded with it. No boundary issues.


Yes


Lon said:


> OP is not ok with mmf, thus he is not consenting to it. Nor is he willing to consent to his W with an OM. Boundary established.


Yes


Lon said:


> There is no leverage or negotiation here, a marriage partnership has, and still does, always require the consent of both to continue. No boundaries have been breached. Further, there is no law that states nobody is ever allowed to move their own boundaries, but the OP hasn't done that, or if he has it is in fact to no longer allow even a ffm. For his W to try to get him to move his own boundaries isn't respectful at all, and when one partner disrespects the other's boundaries it is no longer a functioning partnership.


That's correct, it was a together deal. I saw it and perceived it a one time thing, the idea was hers, being as open as she is with things. I feel like garbage that I have those boundaries I can't and may never move.


Lon said:


> In the future, the OP may choose to move his boundaries, and so too may his W, as long as they both are willing to respect each other's boundaries then they have a marriage, if either disregards their partners' boundary the marriage is over.


Yes, mutual agreement and respect. I respect her and understand the loss of the rush/spark and wanting to get it from someone else, I just can't do it. It was the reason she wanted the FFM, the rush of a new experience with someone else, I knew there was something more if she was asking it. Knowing that now it can't be breached ever again, I hope she can tell me she can respect and accept it.


GusPolinski said:


> That said, my gut feeling is that most woman that offer up MFF in anticipation of some sort of reciprocation probably aren't looking for MMF but rather MF... but w/ a different "M".


That feels more to be the case...her OM question originally started with saying she's okay with us being alone with other people, or together, regardless the combination.


Yeswecan said:


> Wandering about:
> As a result of all of this you are going to have to accept much much more. Question is...how much more will you accept?


I'm willing to accept that I may not be able to give her the spark back, I now know I've been accepting that for around two years, just didn't know. If her mental/emotional disorders prevent that, that's okay with me; I can accept her for her issues as long as she doesn't act on an uncontrolled impulse. I can accept that I may never change how I feel about an open marriage. I may have to accept she will do it behind my back and that things will go back to normal, I'll just never have known I accepted it in the end. That's about all I can do.


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

ThePheonix said:


> W.A. whether you know it or not you're on a run a way train and there ain't no stopping it. Take my word for it Dawg, when they start the "I need to experience another man (partner)", you either turn into a cuckold, betrayed spouse, or a once again single guy. There ain't a fourth choice. You may not like it, but at least you won't be surprised when, one way or the other, you share her with another man.
> Its a little late for you now, but it sounds like she'd been a fun casual girlfriend but a crappy wife. The award winning wives (or those that you'd marry all over again) don't bang other people.
> You got snookered.


I'm trying to prepare myself for that, if when my final level-headed talk about it ends up falling upon deaf ears. If it happens, I'll handle it when it happens, knowing that I tried to do the right thing for her in the first place, and made my intentions clear in the end. It'll hurt but have left it all on the table. What a life, eh? :|


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Early in my sexual encounters I had three women at once and then later two.

I never even took any of them seriously after the fact.

Maybe not fair but I don't think they should have taken me seriously either.

That type of thing doesn't lend itself to lasting, committed relationships for the majority.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Wandering About,

Also when I asked you about OW being out of your life, I also meant out of your W's life, is your W still in contact with her? People you have sex with have a way of coming back.

How is your W finding these people? Does she already have the OM picked out?

Is your W involved with swingers that you don't know about?

Does your W keep in contact with ex lovers, via facebook, etc, you said she had numerous.

Does your W think cheating with another female is not cheating? 

There is a very real danger, almost a certainty, that these "sex only" encounters will result in you or your W falling in love.

Tamat


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Early in my sexual encounters I had three women at once and then later two.
> 
> I never even took any of them seriously after the fact.
> 
> ...


Completely agree. Haven't done it myself but pretty sure I wouldn't take a man willing to get involved in such an arrangement seriously. I'd see him as trash not capable of an actual relationship. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> Completely agree. Haven't done it myself but pretty sure I wouldn't take a man willing to get involved in such an arrangement seriously. I'd see him as trash not capable of an actual relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would take someone seriously if it was in their past and depending on circumstances.

I turned out to be a good bet.

I was also very young and drunk. No excuses, just the circumstances.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Listen man. Just be honest with her. 

"Wife, I'm never going to be a guy that is going to be ok with you being with another guy. I'm ok with another girl, and maybe that's a double standard but I don't care. That's where I'm at. To be with me you have to accept that. But don't say you accept it and then pressure me to change my mind, or don't pretend to accept it and then go and cheat on me. If that's what you need to be fulfilled I'd rather know it now so we can move on."

It's a grown up question, and let her be a grown up and answer it for herself. And then let her live up to her answer, you know?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

You know with technology these days you might be able to use virtual reality or a hologram.

Perhaps microsoft hololens will save your marriage!



















At least it is a good excuse to invest in the technology! >

Badsanta

PS, you might need a green motion capture suit!


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

marduk said:


> Listen man. Just be honest with her.
> 
> "Wife, I'm never going to be a guy that is going to be ok with you being with another guy. I'm ok with another girl, and maybe that's a double standard but I don't care. That's where I'm at. To be with me you have to accept that. But don't say you accept it and then pressure me to change my mind, or don't pretend to accept it and then go and cheat on me. If that's what you need to be fulfilled I'd rather know it now so we can move on."
> 
> ...


This is perfect.

Boundaries are not always fair. But we get to choose our own boundaries, and our partner can accept them or move on.

And OP? You let this genie out of the bottle. That is your burden to bear.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> I would take someone seriously if it was in their past and depending on circumstances.
> 
> I turned out to be a good bet.
> 
> ...


I meant in the present. Were you a good bet when you were involved in these thing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

My friend you are young and let this be your school.

I am young too,mid 20s just like you two,but I would never cheat on my wife even if she tells me I can have 10 women with her,party for my life.
If you love somene you never cheat on them,never sleep with other person,you respect them,and if my wife tells me she wants some "strange" or some other man I would serve her with D papers. 

I dont want to talk about it,internet is full of people who like threesomes,open marriage,cuckold and stuff like that and then they say they love theirs husbands or wives. Nope,not in my book.

Your wife or husband is your best friend,you can cry with them,laugh with them,make babys with them and finally grow old together. That is marriage for me.

Now back to you,your wife will do some MFM or some other things even if you dont agree with her,she can lie to you about it.

Do you really want to have kids with this woman,and in another 10-20 years boom,you find there is some OM in the picture.

Like I said,this is your school,and learn from it my friend.


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

TAMAT said:


> Wandering About,
> 
> Also when I asked you about OW being out of your life, I also meant out of your W's life, is your W still in contact with her? People you have sex with have a way of coming back.
> *As far as I know. After it happened and since she's said nothing of her.
> ...





marduk said:


> Listen man. Just be honest with her.
> 
> "Wife, I'm never going to be a guy that is going to be ok with you being with another guy. I'm ok with another girl, and maybe that's a double standard but I don't care. That's where I'm at. To be with me you have to accept that. But don't say you accept it and then pressure me to change my mind, or don't pretend to accept it and then go and cheat on me. If that's what you need to be fulfilled I'd rather know it now so we can move on."
> 
> ...


That's what I plan to do, reading you alls' replies are truly helping me understand, figure out my approach and prepare....good or bad. Thank you.


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Typical. The man is open to having a threesome with another woman, but not with another man.

Why is it OK for you and not for her? 

Why is another man considered more "Immoral" than another woman. That is the "WHY" that I would like to know.

As far as what you do with each person should be mutually agreed upon. I see people assuming there would be male to male contact, but I don't recall the OP stating that was asked of him. I am guessing she wants both the males? I don't know.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> I meant in the present. Were you a good bet when you were involved in these thing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I wasn't even old enough to vote. I don't think high school students are a good bet either way but even then what we were doing didn't exactly make us good BF/GF material.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Wandering About (Sep 29, 2015)

where_are_we said:


> Typical. The man is open to having a threesome with another woman, but not with another man.
> 
> Why is it OK for you and not for her?


I see the how it looks, I have to accept it. Like lifeistooshort said, I agreed to her FFM request, without seeing the MF or MMF being put out there weeks later. It was all her idea, thought it was a one time need. Now it ended with me holding the hypocrite card, cornered after now knowing the why. She never voiced an interest in MF or MMF all these years, just FF/FFM. Even that took years for me to accept. Whether it was always a back thought that I would change my mind to allow it to be fully open,who knows; It may never change. She was okay with and dropped me not liking the FF/FFM interest then, but can't accept me no liking what she wants now. 

I should have seen it coming.


where_are_we said:


> Why is another man considered more "Immoral" than another woman. That is the "WHY" that I would like to know.


Lon helped explain what I was trying to say. It's my current boundary, I should be allowed to keep it. It's not in me, I can't handle it.


where_are_we said:


> As far as what you do with each person should be mutually agreed upon.


I agree. The requests should have mutual acceptance, not for one to give in.


where_are_we said:


> I see people assuming there would be male to male contact, but I don't recall the OP stating that was asked of him. I am guessing she wants both the males? I don't know.


Right, like above, it was brought up weeks later that an MF or with me MMF would be acceptable to her. I wish I knew. I feel the situation is too fragile to ask now, as much as we're acting normal for the moment, I don't know when to ever bring it up again without it getting worse.

Thank you again for the replies, thanks for showing me both sides of the story.


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

where_are_we said:


> Typical. The man is open to having a threesome with another woman, but not with another man.
> 
> Why is it OK for you and not for her?
> 
> ...


Both points you bring up are things we'd be inclined to debate. What is fair? What about mutual consent?

If we strip away the emotion, pray the end result is that agreements are, or should be, binding. A contract.

Fairness? That is nebulous in comparison. 

Its probably not going to win OP's argument, but he has held to his agreements. Both partners agreed, The End.

Until another agreement is reached, both partners should remain within the bounds of their contracts.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Wandering About said:


> That's exactly how I understood it, a one time thing. *We mutually agreed* to do this together, and it took me quite the time to accept it in the first place. I had my reservations but in the end wanted her to have the experience she wanted. As I said in the OP, it was fun but it wasn't really my thing, my objective was to enjoy what she wanted, *she found the girl.* I admitted to her it was a mistake, That I didn't expect this hand to be dealt to me.
> 
> No matter how much I am conflicting in my head that *I want her to stay happy and not resent me*, I never wanted to agree to anything anymore. Standing firm for our baby and by proxy the marriage.
> 
> ...


OP,
First, allow me to address your feelings of hypocrisy. Note the bolded statements above (in black). You made an agreement with her based on a set of variables. The resultant tryst was therefore mutually agreed upon and mutually performed. Now she is requesting another agreement based on a different set of variables which you find unacceptable.

Therefore, since she initiated the initial encounter, it was as much for her as for you, if not more so since she devised it. And this applies even if it was a deceptive ruse on her part to get you to agree to a MMF or MF (not you) agreement.

Now do not misunderstand, I believe your agreement to this MFF encounter was/is damaging to your credibility but it is done. The only way a person can right any wrong is to learn from it, understand it and not repeat it. The act itself cannot be undone.



marduk said:


> Listen man. Just be honest with her.
> 
> "Wife, I'm never going to be a guy that is going to be ok with you being with another guy. I'm ok with another girl, and maybe that's a double standard but I don't care. That's where I'm at. To be with me you have to accept that. But don't say you accept it and then pressure me to change my mind, or don't pretend to accept it and then go and cheat on me. If that's what you need to be fulfilled I'd rather know it now so we can move on."
> 
> ...


I find this to be an excellent approach IF you are dealing with an adult mentality but you are not. Her ability to make and therefore commit to a decision is severely hampered by her inability to fully understand mature thought. She does not yet possess that ability and is, therefore, not capable of making a decision, choice if you prefer, that she can ultimately abide by, she simply is not psychologically equipped to do so.

After all she has taken solemn vows to be married and yet is now seeking more. If she cannot keep that vow she will not keep this one.

This leads me to my next point. People often interchange words that have significantly different meanings. Want and need are two such words. You have stated that she "needs" the excitement of new and different but, in reality, she does not, she "wants" that feeling. The ability to differentiate that is a matter of maturity. Adults realize that most childish needs are really wants and can be easily done without.

A "need" is something crucial to survival, all the rest are wants. Some will argue that they "need" this or that to be happy but in reality happiness is itself a fleeting condition that is mostly found within a person and not externally. Some people can be "happy" in circumstances that others may find deplorable and the reason is largely due to contentment.

As we mature we begin to realize more and more that life's stages are a journey. I am not saying that we just accept any and all circumstances that life doles out but once we do all that we can to alter or improve the situation, the rest is out of our control and beyond our ability to change so accepting that, we learn to be content in the moment.

Your wife has not sufficiently matured to see this contentment and still wants the excitement and thrill of new and shiny, as do most children. She has not reached that level that allows her to see the multitude of benefits that can be gleaned from a solid marriage and family not only for her but for any children you two may have as well.

She cannot see that the "spark" as you put it, is the same spark that she has been chasing for how long now? Has she been able to start a fire with it? No. She continues to chase that which will never satisfy her because her mind can not see the futility of her quest and that until she finds contentment inside, she will never find it externally.

And, even if you were to allow her to chase that "spark" she will never find the happiness you desire for her to have because it has to come from within. Which brings me to the last point which references the sentence above in red. Your desire for her happiness is noble but almost completely out of your control.

Short of being a loyal, loving husband and father and upholding your end of the marital agreement, there is nothing you can do to satisfy her "need" (want) for more. It is not within your power and even if you "allowed" her to sleep with 1000 different men she would not be satisfied until SHE sees the futility of her quest and realizes that HER wants have to change in order to be content. Sadly, if this ever does occur, it is often too late and the life is wasted and in shambles.

The only hope you have is to try to make her "grow up" and to get her to realize that the "spark" is temporary but the fire is long lasting and can burn for a lifetime if it is fueled properly.

Wants can be a driving force for change and growth but only if they are sprinkled with wisdom and understanding. Childish wants are, by their nature, destructive and counterproductive.

One last thought. I implore you to give serious consideration to having a child with her at this time. She is not ready and the child would suffer because of it. Until she finds her contentment inside her she cannot be the mother she needs to be and you may find yourself dealing with two children. I wish you success in getting her to see this and good fortune in life.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

She likely already resents you for the double standard. Counseling might help you guys with that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

One more thing.

Suppose you had proposed the original threesome.

Now, suppose you also proposed the latest one, and she said that she wasn't comfortable with it. In fact, the first one was a mistake. Wouldn't that be the end of it for you? Would you actually pressure her to do anything she was not completely comfortable to do?


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Wandering About said:


> That's exactly how I understood it, a one time thing. We mutually agreed to do this together, and it took me quite the time to accept it in the first place. I had my reservations but in the end wanted her to have the experience she wanted. As I said in the OP, it was fun but it wasn't really my thing, my objective was to enjoy what she wanted, she found the girl. I admitted to her it was a mistake, That I didn't expect this hand to be dealt to me.


I think some folks here might call BS on this, but I actually believe you when you say it was primarily about her. Most of the time, I try to put myself in somebody else's shoes before I respond to things on here (and I do this IRL, too).

So with this particular situation, I did just that.

Like most men (and more women than we think, probably!) the appeal of a threesome is definitely there. However, a threesome with my wife (or if I wasn't married, then with somebody I loved) is not appealing, for many reasons. A threesome is something I'd only consider in a casual situation. This sounds like your mindset about this, too, OP.

So. If my wife/girlfriend expressed an interest in having a threesome, my first inclination would be "no", for the reasons above. However, if this was something she really, really wanted to do, and she assured me it was for HER pleasure, I'd be hard-pressed to decline, TBH.

I believe this is what OP was thinking when this subject was broached and ultimately discussed - that this was for HER, not him. I don't get the impression that he got all giddy and excited about this, and more or less just went along with it - for HER sake. OBVIOUSLY, that does not mean there wasn't some level of excitement as far as he was concerned, but he was under the impression (and likely assured) that this was almost entirely for HER benefit, not his.

Now, whether this was a set-up on her part, in order to bring up the MMF afterwards is up for debate. Only she knows, really. IMO, there's a 50/50 chance this was her endgame. It's also entirely possible it wasn't, and it's important to remember that, and perhaps give her the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless of WHEN she decided she wanted an MMF (before or after the MFF), the fact remains that she is now utilizing the initial threesome as leverage in order to receive what she wants at this point - which is not fair in the slightest. Either way - F that.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

alexm said:


> I think some folks here might call BS on this, but I actually believe you when you say it was primarily about her. Most of the time, I try to put myself in somebody else's shoes before I respond to things on here (and I do this IRL, too).
> 
> So with this particular situation, I did just that.
> 
> ...


I can appreciate this post and it makes a lot of sense to me. From a woman's perspective though the whole thing could come off as a little disingenuous because while the claim is that it's all about her that's not really true. He claims to have gone along with what she wanted but on some level it was for him too or he would've said no as he nixed the MMF thing. So he's quite capable of saying no.

I think he's not completely honest about what was in it for him and this is where he gets into trouble. He claims he only wants what his wife wants but clearly that's not true or they'd be having a mmf thing. He doesn't have so much tunnel vision that he went along with that, he has tunnel vision where he wants it too. This is where he will come off as a hypocrite to a woman and why his wife will resent him. 

Now it was crappy of her to covertly set it up and subsequently use it as leverage.

I don't have good vibes about this marriage but maybe they'll get through it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Wandering About said:


> I'm willing to accept that I may not be able to give her the spark back, I now know I've been accepting that for around two years, just didn't know. If her mental/emotional disorders prevent that, that's okay with me; I can accept her for her issues as long as she doesn't act on an uncontrolled impulse. I can accept that I may never change how I feel about an open marriage. I may have to accept she will do it behind my back and that things will go back to normal, I'll just never have known I accepted it in the end. That's about all I can do.


What I meant was how much more will you accept concerning other behaviors other than what your W has already displayed.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

where_are_we said:


> Typical. The man is open to having a threesome with another woman, but not with another man.
> 
> Why is it OK for you and not for her?
> 
> ...


BS. 

Everyone is entitled to want what they want, and accept what they accept. Some people are wired to only want certain things.

It's OK because you're allowed to own your own sexuality. Fair is not part of it.

Sexuality is not an economics game, a passive aggressive series of covert contracts. I don't go down on my partner just so she'll go down on me. And I wouldn't ask her to put on a strap-on and **** me in the ass just so I could turn around and demand that she let me **** her in the ass to make it fair.

This is totally ridiculous.


----------



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

OP, when she brings up the FFM your response should be "I never asked for that".

IMO, IF you had brought up the subject she'd be somewhat justified in asking for the reciprocal. But you DIDN'T bring it up. You didn't ask for it. And you didn't beg her until she gave in.

Look at it this way. Your wife says "honey, I want to go to Hawaii for vacation" and you say "no, babe I really don't want to. I'm scared of sharks." But she keeps asking and actually tells you it's been her life long dream, so you say "ok, let's go to Hawaii." You end up having a great time, and aren't eaten by Jaws. When you get home she says, "I want a new car." You reply "I'm not comfortable with that, it'd make things too tight financially." She responds, "Well, I let YOU go to Hawaii!" 

Does that make any sense at all? How does doing one thing that SHE WANTS to do, make you owe her something else SHE WANTS to do? Even if you had fun doing the first thing??


----------



## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

When a wife doesn't sleep with another partner, its most often because she doesn't want to do it, not because the husband don't want her to.
The danger in this case is that she apparently wants to and not surprisingly, will likely slip around a do it anyway.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

From everything you've posted, Wandering About, it seems clear that your wife is naturally not monogamous. You, on the other hand, are naturally monogamous. This is a serious compatibility issue.

You're three years into the relationship and the ink is barely dry on the marriage certificate, yet here you are talking about how you and your wife committed adultery and your wife wants more. What does that say about the long term survival prospects of the marriage?

(Yes, I said adultery. Adultery is defined as sexual contact with someone not your spouse. Your adultery was mutual and consensual, but it was adultery.)

You can't claim to be blindsided by your wife's desire for other lovers. If you've presented things accurately, she's been telling you that she is a non-monogamist from the start. 

If you're serious about making this marriage work, you're going to have to explain to your wife that the time for multiple partners and experiencing everything with everyone happens BEFORE marriage and a baby. If she can't accept that the wild and free period of her life is over and needs to be in some version of an open relationship to thrive, perhaps the best course of action would be a friendly divorce. 

A monogamist and a non-monogamist being married only works if the non-monogamist can actually be happy with monogamy. Anything else will just breed hatred and resentment.


----------



## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> From a woman's perspective though the whole thing could come off as a little disingenuous because while the claim is that it's all about her that's not really true. He claims to have gone along with what she wanted but on some level it was for him too or he would've said no as he nixed the MMF thing. So he's quite capable of saying no.
> 
> I think he's not completely honest about what was in it for him and this is where he gets into trouble. He claims he only wants what his wife wants but clearly that's not true or they'd be having a mmf thing. He doesn't have so much tunnel vision that he went along with that, he has tunnel vision where he wants it too. This is where he will come off as a hypocrite to a woman and why his wife will resent him.


I almost always agree with you, Life, but with this, I don't. And I think I spelled it out fairly well in my post (the one that you responded to). I also think a few others have subsequently re-iterated what I think, too, below our respective replies.

OF COURSE he got something out of it. I was clear in my post that he likely did. HOWEVER, this was not his idea, his suggestion, or something that he particularly wanted to do. It was his wife's idea, suggestion, and desire to do this.

I'm not saying she had to twist his arm a whole lot to do it, but I think OP has been clear that he didn't exactly just go "HELL YEAH!" when it was brought up, either.

What happened, I believe, is that OP was a little naive in his thinking that there wouldn't be a subsequent request to do this again, except with 2 guys instead. His love and trust in his wife is what likely made him not even CONSIDER that that would come next. Hindsight is 20/20, right?

Furthermore, I don't get the impression that OP would agree to a second threesome EVEN IF it was 2 women (or the same woman as before). I DO get the impression that in his mindset, this was a one-time thing - period. Regardless of gender.

Again, this reverts back to trusting in his wife (however naively) that she wanted this experience, and if she got it, just scratch it off the list and carry on.

Also, fwiw, I haven't seen anywhere in this thread from OP that he wouldn't have agreed to a MMF threesome if that's what was brought up originally. He actually comes across as a pretty open-minded guy. That's not to say he WOULD have agreed to it, I'm just saying that it appears to be left unsaid. And unfortunately, far too many people involved in this thread are making the assumption that he's saying "no" to this second request solely based on the fact that it would be MMF this time. He can clarify, if he wants.

Regardless - what his reasons are for saying "no thanks" to a second threesome, this time involving another man, instead of a woman, are _completely and utterly_ irrelevant.

People are often faced with similar scenarios in their lives in which they must be careful, and aware, of what they are agreeing to, but also, unfortunately, ones in which the other person can (and will) take advantage of, or otherwise use to coerce somebody into something.

If I agree to perform a sexual act on another person, this does not imply that I am willing, or obligated to, perform a different sexual act later on. If I am invited to someone's home for a drink, even knowing full well it will be just me and them, this does not imply I am willing or obligated to have sex with them. If a woman buys me dinner, I am not obligated to have sex with her. And so on, and so forth. Agreeing to (A) does not explicitly imply agreeing to (B). Nor should one ever, _ever_, make the assumption that this is the case.

OP is no more obligated (nor should be guilted into) taking this to another level that he is not comfortable with - regardless of his reasons. Nor should he be derided or chastised by anybody, let alone his wife, for drawing his line in the sand.

The insinuation that he agreed to (not suggested, or asked for - _agreed_ to) a FFM threesome with his wife, therefore he "owes" her a MMF threesome is, frankly, insane.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

alexm said:


> I almost always agree with you, Life, but with this, I don't. And I think I spelled it out fairly well in my post (the one that you responded to). I also think a few others have subsequently re-iterated what I think, too, below our respective replies.
> 
> OF COURSE he got something out of it. I was clear in my post that he likely did. HOWEVER, this was not his idea, his suggestion, or something that he particularly wanted to do. It was his wife's idea, suggestion, and desire to do this.
> 
> ...



Well I'm flattered that you usually agree with me! Let me clarify a few things. ....

I do not think he owes her. If that's his boundary that's his boundary. It is possible that he was naive, my take was how his wife could view the whole thing. Right or wrong she'll see it how she sees it just like right or wrong he had his views. He is concerned that she might resent him and I'm offering why that could happen in hopes it will help him approach it. 

Fwiw I don't think agreeing to a mmf would solve anything. Imo threesomes have no place in a marriage except for a very select few where everyone is on board. That is not this couple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

I'd also say Alex, agreeing to (A) does not explicitly imply agreeing to (A) ever again. 

If the OP were here saying his wife agreed to do anal once but now won't do it again, there many posts along the lines of "she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want and how dare you think she does"


----------



## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

Sorry, but this is how it is. The 'rush' doesn't last for more than 2-3 years. A mature person with a high emotional quotent will accept this and learn to live with it. 

Some partners (usually men, but increasingly women nowadays) will just do whatever it takes to get that 'rush'.

They act like a drug-addict would. Imperilling themselves, their partner, their families....



Wandering About said:


> I feel like this could belong in three different topic forums so I'll start here.
> 
> I'll lay this all out the best I can, so sorry for the length. Better for me to say everything to get the advice I'm looking for.
> 
> ...


----------



## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

I think you’ve got three separate things going on here that you are getting all mixed up together.

First – she’s lost that spark of the initial relationship. As she puts it, the rush is gone. The honeymoon period is over. No more NRE – new relationship excitement. The limerence has faded. There are a lot of terms for it because it’s a perfectly normal phase in the progression of a relationship. A lot of people confuse the loss of the NRE to mean that they are no longer ‘in love’ when they don’t understand that deeper, more enduring, love is supposed to replace it. Hence, “I love you but I’m not in love with you.” There are ways to renew NRE - try roleplaying meeting as ‘strangers.’ But if she prefers NRE to deep and abiding love, then she’s never going to be long-term relationship material.

Second, you think she is being open and honest, but to me she sounds manipulative. Lying by omission is not honesty. She browbeat, wheedled and manipulated you into trying the MFF. You did so, felt it was a mistake, and don’t want to do it again. Now, she’s going to browbeat, wheedle and manipulate you into repeating it anyway or doing a MMF. The first one was fair (ish – she did browbeat you down over two years instead of respecting your initial reluctance) because you both consented to it. You are now not both consenting to doing something else. You are married, you are a partnership, if one partner doesn’t want to do something, you DON’T do it.

Third, the biggie. She thinks an open relationship is the solution to her dilemma of wanting both NRE and remaining married to you for other reasons, stable home for your child, your income, your reliability, whatever. That’s only a solution if both partners are on the same page. Since you’re not, there are only two ways this can go down. One of you will have to change pages, or you will have to break up. If you change pages, you’ll destroy your self-esteem. If she changes pages, you’re never going to believe her change is real (see above lack of honesty). Both of those also lead to breaking up.

Have an open, honest (for realz this time) conversation about the loss of NRE, how you as a couple can cope with it (counselling) monogamously together, about how one of you needs to change so you can stay together, if it’s right to demand that of the other, and how to come to an agreement about who it should be or if you should break up.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> From everything you've posted, Wandering About, it seems clear that your wife is naturally not monogamous. You, on the other hand, are naturally monogamous. This is a serious compatibility issue.
> 
> You're three years into the relationship and the ink is barely dry on the marriage certificate, yet here you are talking about how you and your wife committed adultery and your wife wants more. What does that say about the long term survival prospects of the marriage?
> 
> ...


No more comments needed, IMO.


----------



## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Wandering about,

Your W seduced you into having an affair, she slowly turned you into her, if you let her keep going at this you will end up in a completely open marriage. 

You will be sitting at home with your child not knowing where your W is or who she is with, or if the OM or OW she is with is a psycho. She may at some time in future move this person in with your family. Affairs cause people to lose all sense of judgement.

The horrible thing about allowing your W with another woman is that now you can’t trust your W with anyone. 

Tamat


----------



## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

marduk said:


> BS.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to want what they want, and accept what they accept. Some people are wired to only want certain things.
> 
> ...


Wow, settle down. You are completely misinterpreting my response. 

Did you miss my statement about "agreement." This is not about being fair. It's about being open to trying new things, discussing and respecting each others boundaries. Seems like they did not discuss any of that, so may have felt it was OK to ask. I am not saying he can't say no to this. I was questioning why is it more immoral for it to be a man than a woman.


----------



## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

where_are_we said:


> Wow, settle down. You are completely misinterpreting my response.
> 
> Did you miss my statement about "agreement." This is not about being fair. It's about being open to trying new things, discussing and respecting each others boundaries. Seems like they did not discuss any of that, so may have felt it was OK to ask. I am not saying he can't say no to this. I was questioning why is it more immoral for it to be a man than a woman.


Oh, OK. I don't think it's any different.


----------

