# Cycle of fault and who is to blame?



## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

This is intentionally worded neutral and vague to avoid slanting responses.

You and your spouse set a goal that will take, say, 6 months to achieve. This is a goal that you BOTH want, and have tried several times. A week later, your spouse (who is not always a big picture thinker) wants to do something that is counter-productive to achieving said goal. You try to reason with your spouse, but your spouse is very much in the moment and fights tooth and nail.

- If you give in, is it your fault for quitting, spouses fault for abandoning reason, or mutual fault?

- Is it right to try and avoid whatever caused the temptation in future to avoid the fight, or is that just banging your head against the wall because you'd never be able to shield your spouse completely.

- How do you handle these situations when reasoning does not work?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Chopblock said:


> You try to reason with your spouse, but your spouse is very much in the moment and fights tooth and nail.


Generally I would say if you are fighting someone 'tooth and nail' then that probably isnt their goal. 



Chopblock said:


> - If you give in, is it your fault for quitting, spouses fault for abandoning reason, or mutual fault?


what do you mean by 'give in'? Give in to what? 

In general, if you go in to an agreement and one person backs out, the other person has the right to back out also. i dont really know whoes fault it is that the goal was not reached. probably both due to bad communication and lack of boundaries on both parties. but that's just in general. it would depend on what happened.



Chopblock said:


> - Is it right to try and avoid whatever caused the temptation in future to avoid the fight, or is that just banging your head against the wall because you'd never be able to shield your spouse completely.


This is confusing. you say to avoid a temptation to avoid a fight. that doesnt make sense to me. usually one avoids a temptation to avoid the negative consequences of the temptation itself, not something external like a fight. And you say you'd never be able to shield your spouse completely by this temptation? im so confused. what does that have to do with reaching the goal? if you have to shield your spouse from something you are doing, then you probably need to find a different spouse, or quit doing what you are doing. 



Chopblock said:


> - How do you handle these situations when reasoning does not work?


Well, if you are constantly having to talk someone into doing what you want them to do, then you are probably not respecting their boundaries or your own. Action always speaks louder then works.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

I think you need to explain the situation in more depth. Will help you more and you will get more response. Just ask to be un-biased. We aren't licensed shrinks here, just give feedback.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Chopblock said:


> This is intentionally worded neutral and vague to avoid slanting responses.
> 
> You and your spouse set a goal that will take, say, 6 months to achieve. This is a goal that you BOTH want, and have tried several times. A week later, your spouse (who is not always a big picture thinker) wants to do something that is counter-productive to achieving said goal. You try to reason with your spouse, but your spouse is very much in the moment and fights tooth and nail.
> 
> ...


well my husband and I have long term and short terms goals. We have to complete several short terms goals in order to accomplish the long term goal. The long term goal is about 5 years, to retire.. and in order to do this we have to declutter and go through everything with a fine tooth comb to ready us so we can move affordably. Also many little things in the way of minor home repairs so that when we are ready to sell the house we live in, we can and get the most we can for it.
It is hard to do but to keep on track, what helps us is to go online and look at houses and areas we plan to retire to. It helps keep us on track and motivates us to keep on track as there will be 30 small goals to get to the big goal and we want to retire as effortlessly as possible... so thats what we do, we use the internet for visual motivation.
Since you did not say what your goals are, maybe the web won't help, but visual motivation helps us very much.

I want to add, since we have decluttered so much ( still lots to go) I am realizing I like to live with less...
and it has created a new way of thinking of things because of this new found realization. In order to accomplish a long term goal, you have to work together as there are many short term goals involved in any long term goal and if your on different pages, its going to be impossible to do the long term goal.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

I will try to be more specific, but remember I was vague originally because I did not want to slant the situation.

Taking preso's goals of "early retirement" and "decluttering": suppose you and your spouse have agreed to both those goals. Achieving those goals means avoiding wasting money, and avoiding bringing more junk into the house.

Now, you know that your spouse has a weak spot for knick knacks. You pass a bunch of yard sales, and your spouse wants to look (which you know is code for: waste more money and buy more junk). You try to explain that doing this will affect reaching your goal, but your spouse keeps fightign you. Your spouse refuses to listen t reason.

That is the kind of situation I am describing. Does that clarify things?


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Chopblock said:


> Now, you know that your spouse has a weak spot for knick knacks. You pass a bunch of yard sales, and your spouse wants to look (which you know is code for: waste more money and buy more junk). You try to explain that doing this will affect reaching your goal, but your spouse keeps fightign you. Your spouse refuses to listen t reason.


If that was the case, I would say to read Smart Couples finish rich. My h and I read it and it really straightened out how we spend money. 

It may just be that you two have different goals.


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## preso (May 1, 2009)

Chopblock said:


> I will try to be more specific, but remember I was vague originally because I did not want to slant the situation.
> 
> Taking preso's goals of "early retirement" and "decluttering": suppose you and your spouse have agreed to both those goals. Achieving those goals means avoiding wasting money, and avoiding bringing more junk into the house.
> 
> ...



yes you made it clear but heres the thing.. my spouse works WITH ME because its a goal we both share, not just one of us...

so he does not encourage me to buy more stuff. If he did I would think he may not have the same goals
and 
would question why he was trying to mess things up and make them hard for us.


but...........
I'm not sure every single situation would follow these rules.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

If your partner is neither willing, nor aware, of what being accountable for your goals requires in terms of behavior and choices then they aren't really goals. If they aren't willing to be called out for behavior that is counterproductive to the goal - then you don't have a partner either.

Ultimately it comes down to the decisions you are willing to make, and the scope of your goals.
There is probably a compromise somewhere in the examples you point out - but again, a compromise assumes action on the part of two parties. If there isn't action on both sides - then indeed, one side is simply giving in.


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## Sprite (Nov 3, 2008)

Sometimes we set goals we have every intention of reaching one day. But, sometimes things happen to put those goals on hold. 

You have to determine if the thing that got in the way is something you have control of or not. If you have no control of it, then plans need to be reworked to still be able to obtain that goal. Have you set a realistic time line and a realistic goal? Sometimes we want things that we THINK can happen realatively soon, but in actuallity can't.

If my husband and I had a goal we wanted to reach in 6 months, and I saw him slacking on his responsabilities in the outcome of obtaining that goal, I would simply move on and keep up my end of the deal. I would continue to do what ever my job was in being able to obtain this goal, whether he was doing his part or not. So in 6 months, I would be able to enjoy the goal without him if thats what he wants. (Secretly I would be holding up his end of the deal too, whatever job he was supposed to be doing, so that it could happen for me). If he wants to back out of it within a week, well, then his heart wasnt in it from the start and it wasnt something he really wanted to do...he was just pacifying me. So, I do my own thing and in 6 months, I have what ever it was we were planning, but I dont allow him to partake because he didnt want to from the start.


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## Crazzy PR Mom (May 1, 2009)

I say that if you brought it up already. How doing this would affect your goal and they are still willing to go through with it than this goal was only important to one of you. Maybe it's time for a new goal that you both truly want.


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## Chopblock (Mar 21, 2008)

---You have to determine if the thing that got in the way is something you have control of or not.---

In the situation I have defined, the thing that got in the way is your spouse's behavior.

I like Sprite's hard line approach, and I agree that that is what is necessary most of the time. People do need to experience the consequences of their bad choices if they are ever going to learn anything. Someone who is permitted to slack off, but still get the benefits of hard work (thanks to someone else towing the line) is going to be even more motivated to slack next time.

Blanca, I actually did try reading that book. It had some good ideas, but it still didn't solve the root problem. For most people its that very first step: delaying gratification in order to ensure future prosperity, which is toughest. The value circle and all those diagrams he prescribes are steps in that direction. I think the most effective medicine is to experience the consequences of bad choices.


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