# Feeling wanted



## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

To all the guys with LD wives, does it bug you that your wife doesn't "want" you? Does it add insult to injury when you know for a fact that another woman or women DO want you?

This has been driving me insane lately and I'm worried that it's going to lead me down a dangerous road. My wife's drive sucks and mine has always been uber high. I play in a rock cover band on weekends and I'm constantly approached by beautiful women who make it QUITE clear they're very interested in me. When I tell them I'm married I get comments like "let me know if you get a hall pass" or "too bad, she's a lucky girl". Then I go home to my dud of a wife and have to jump through fiery hoops to MAYBE get her in the mood. Given the choice, she'd rather play video games on her computer. 

How the heck do I deal with this? Quitting my band is NOT an option, it's my one escape and the one thing that truly makes me happy. Divorce IS an option I've been considering for some time but I'm not comfortable leaving until my son is 18 which is in 797 days but who's counting? 

Sometimes I wish I could take a pill that would totally kill my sex drive. My life would be soooo much easier.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Yeah, of course it bugs me that my W has no drive...while other women seem to be attracted to me. I assume you've tried everything you can imagine to "fix" things. My youngest is only 7, so I stay for now. In your case...I'd probably start planning my exit now.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

JoeRockStar said:


> How the heck do I deal with this? Quitting my band is NOT an option, it's my one escape and the one thing that truly makes me happy. Divorce IS an option I've been considering for some time but I'm not comfortable leaving until my son is 18 which is in 797 days but who's counting?
> 
> Sometimes I wish I could take a pill that would totally kill my sex drive. My life would be soooo much easier.


Assuming you would like it to work with her, consider telling your wife that youa re counting down the days until your son is 18 (give her the 797 day number) and you can divorce. What do you have to lose? Tell her you are not happy and don't want to continue like this. Tell her about the temptation and admit that you are thinking about things you should not be. Tell her you want to go to MC to see if you two can get things back on track.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Yeah, of course it bugs me that my W has no drive...while other women seem to be attracted to me. I assume you've tried everything you can imagine to "fix" things. My youngest is only 7, so I stay for now. In your case...I'd probably start planning my exit now.


I definitely have tried everything I can think of over our 19 year marriage. The only thing that seems to work is large amounts of alcohol and that sucks IMO. I once asked her how she would feel if I had to be hammered to "want" her, she didn't like that very much and babbled some nonsense about how men and women are different and how she needs to be able to forget her problems to get in the mood blah blah blah.

Yeah, all the writing I'm reading on the walls says "EXIT" in big red letters...


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Assuming you would like it to work with her, consider telling your wife that youa re counting down the days until your son is 18 (give her the 797 day number) and you can divorce. What do you have to lose? Tell her you are not happy and don't want to continue like this. Tell her about the temptation and admit that you are thinking about things you should not be. Tell her you want to go to MC to see if you two can get things back on track.


Been there, done that minus telling her the 797 thing. She blames her depression (but does little or nothing to fix it) and she will work to make things better for a few weeks/months. Then, things go right back to the way they were. The cycle then repeats ad nauseum. I know better than to think things are going to be any different this time around. 

Sorry, just venting.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

<-- Not a guy. 

But... In all seriousness, if you're counting down the days until your son turns 18, then why not just start the process now? Aside from perhaps childsupport, what is so magic about your son turning 18? Will it affect him any differently then than it would now?


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> <-- Not a guy.
> 
> But... In all seriousness, if you're counting down the days until your son turns 18, then why not just start the process now? Aside from perhaps childsupport, what is so magic about your son turning 18? Will it affect him any differently then than it would now?


My son has mild autism/Asperger's and has difficulty handling emotions, that is the main reason for the wait. He would be devastated and I fear it would have lasting implications for him.

The 18th birthday is mostly figurative, I would like to wait until I'm comfortable that he will be able to handle it.

And then there's the eternal optimist inside me who somewhere believes that this sh!tty marriage might be saved within those 797 days even though the realist side knows better.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

JoeRockStar said:


> My son has mild autism/Asperger's and has difficulty handling emotions, that is the main reason for the wait. He would be devastated and I fear it would have lasting implications for him.
> 
> The 18th birthday is mostly figurative, I would like to wait until I'm comfortable that he will be able to handle it.


Joe, I can't say that I fully understand the implications of your son's Asperger's on everything, as I don't have a child with Asperger's myself. My nephew has Asperger's though, so I do have a small understanding of it from that perspective. Knowing how my nephew reacts to minor changes in routine, and how even the smallest things are devastating to him, I can appreciate your concern over his reaction. Will another two years change that though? Will you ever be comfortable with how he will handle that kind of change to his life?

It's a tough position to be in, waging your own happiness against your chilldren's, and I can imagine it's even harder when you add the Asperger's into the mix.

Wish I had something helpful to say.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

JoeRockStar said:


> My son has mild autism/Asperger's and has difficulty handling emotions, that is the main reason for the wait. He would be devastated and I fear it would have lasting implications for him.
> 
> The 18th birthday is mostly figurative, I would like to wait until I'm comfortable that he will be able to handle it.
> 
> And then there's the eternal optimist inside me who somewhere believes that this sh!tty marriage might be saved within those 797 days even though the realist side knows better.


Is there a counselor or healthcare professional you can talk to about transitioning in a way that minimizes this for your son? 

I understand that part of your post is venting, but I see you feeling stuck and resentful because of this. In essesnce, you could be stcuk in this marriage for the forseeable future - that is definitely not healthy for anyone. 

I would look into your options to both get a sense of what you are comfortable doing, as well as taking a bit of control over your life.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

JoeRockStar said:


> My son has mild autism/Asperger's and has difficulty handling emotions, that is the main reason for the wait. He would be devastated and I fear it would have lasting implications for him.
> 
> The 18th birthday is mostly figurative, I would like to wait until I'm comfortable that he will be able to handle it.
> 
> And then there's the eternal optimist inside me who somewhere believes that this sh!tty marriage might be saved within those 797 days even though the realist side knows better.


Joe,

You should contact a mental health professional to see what you can do to slowly start to prepare your son for the split. If it takes the 797 days, so be it. If it's less than that, good for you.

I would definitely tell the wife that this is the paln since she has no interest in dealing with her depression on a continuing basis. Hey, if in the 797 days she does, you can always reconsider.

My one caution is to be sure that if you plan on going through with this, you and the wife should seperate finances. Does she work?


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Knowing how my nephew reacts to minor changes in routine, and how even the smallest things are devastating to him, I can appreciate your concern over his reaction. Will another two years change that though? Will you ever be comfortable with how he will handle that kind of change to his life?
> 
> It's a tough position to be in, waging your own happiness against your chilldren's, and I can imagine it's even harder when you add the Asperger's into the mix.
> 
> Wish I had something helpful to say.


Thanks StatusQuo, that's exactly the problem, he doesn't handle any kind of change very well. The good news is that he's come leaps and bounds over the years and I can see him getting more mature and "normal" every day. I'm optimistic that he will be able to handle this eventually, hopefully soon.

Still, I'm scared to death that he will hate me for leaving. My daughter (who is almost 18) will understand, she's made comments in the past wondering how I stay in this marriage. At one point I hinted to her that I was considering leaving. She wasn't happy about it but she did understand. 

It's very important to me that I leave on good terms with them, they're my kids forever no matter what the circumstances and the thought of them hating me is too much to bear.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Is there a counselor or healthcare professional you can talk to about transitioning in a way that minimizes this for your son?
> 
> I understand that part of your post is venting, but I see you feeling stuck and resentful because of this. In essesnce, you could be stcuk in this marriage for the forseeable future - that is definitely not healthy for anyone.
> 
> I would look into your options to both get a sense of what you are comfortable doing, as well as taking a bit of control over your life.


Possibly...there are many wonderful resources for kids with autism and their parents, perhaps I can find someone through those channels. Thanks for the advice.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

JoeRockStar said:


> Thanks StatusQuo, that's exactly the problem, he doesn't handle any kind of change very well. The good news is that he's come leaps and bounds over the years and I can see him getting more mature and "normal" every day. I'm optimistic that he will be able to handle this eventually, hopefully soon.
> 
> Still, I'm scared to death that he will hate me for leaving. My daughter (who is almost 18) will understand, she's made comments in the past wondering how I stay in this marriage. At one point I hinted to her that I was considering leaving. She wasn't happy about it but she did understand.
> 
> It's very important to me that I leave on good terms with them, they're my kids forever no matter what the circumstances and the thought of them hating me is too much to bear.


How would your wife handle the decision to divorce? My reason for asking this is, I'm assuming that she wouldn't want it to be any harder on your son either. Would it be an amicable enough split that she would work with you to help your son through it? I guess what I'm trying to say is, would the two of you be able to slowly phase into separation/divorce so that the changes were in minimal increments that wouldn't have a drastic "all at once" impact on your son? I can only imagine that it would be hard on both you and your wife to take those steps slowly, but if you were both open to it...

I'm only proposing that because I know how my nephew is with things. Even trips to the grocery store, we have to start prepping him hours in advance, "this is where we're going, this is how we're getting there, this is how long it will take, etc." and god forbid something happen that interferes with what we told him.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Joe,
> 
> You should contact a mental health professional to see what you can do to slowly start to prepare your son for the split. If it takes the 797 days, so be it. If it's less than that, good for you.
> 
> ...


Thanks Toffer. Maybe I will tell her as you suggest. As I stated, she would make an effort to improve things when I finally told her I'd had enough but went back to her old habits in no time. Perhaps having that hard date in the back of her mind will motivate her for longer. I just hate to use threats to get my point across, you know?

No she doesn't currently work. She has over the years but always finds an excuse to quit. I wouldn't mind if she used the time to better herself, i.e. go to the gym, see a therapist, etc. but she does nothing all day and I really mean NOTHING. She doesn't clean, rarely cooks, and has no hobbies to speak of. Fortunately, I have a great job that pays well and she doesn't have to work for us to be comfortable. It's also fortunate that I lived alone for several years so I'm quite self sufficient and capable of caring for myself and my children.

Somehow, I forsee being raked over the coals in a divorce hearing, despite me not reaping a single benefit of her not working.  I'm at the point that I would walk away penniless just to get out but the thought of having to pay her spousal support to sit on her lazy behind irks me.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> How would your wife handle the decision to divorce? My reason for asking this is, I'm assuming that she wouldn't want it to be any harder on your son either. Would it be an amicable enough split that she would work with you to help your son through it? I guess what I'm trying to say is, would the two of you be able to slowly phase into separation/divorce so that the changes were in minimal increments that wouldn't have a drastic "all at once" impact on your son? I can only imagine that it would be hard on both you and your wife to take those steps slowly, but if you were both open to it...
> 
> I'm only proposing that because I know how my nephew is with things. Even trips to the grocery store, we have to start prepping him hours in advance, "this is where we're going, this is how we're getting there, this is how long it will take, etc." and god forbid something happen that interferes with what we told him.


If past conversations are any indicator, she will flip out and then try to make me the bad guy. She won't give a crap about my son at that point, she will only look to demonize me. She does this in almost EVERY single argument we've ever had, it's exhausting and I avoid confrontation with her like the plague because of it. She is not a rational person when she gets angry and will do anything she can to play the martyr.

I remember those days, my son would want to go out shopping with me or my wife in order to get a treat, i.e. popcorn, candy, etc. Heaven FORBID the store was out of that treat! Major temper tantrum right in the middle of the store! 

Want to know how I ended that behavior? He threw a tantrum, I told him we were leaving NOW, he opted to sit there so I left him in aisle at Target for 20 minutes while I stood in the doorway out of sight keeping an eye on him. Eventually he realized I wasn't giving in or coming back so he came outside looking for me. He never did that again.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

JoeRockStar said:


> No she doesn't currently work. She has over the years but always finds an excuse to quit. I wouldn't mind if she used the time to better herself, i.e. go to the gym, see a therapist, etc. but she does nothing all day and I really mean NOTHING. She doesn't clean, rarely cooks, and has no hobbies to speak of.


Sounds seriously depressed. Is she on meds + therapy?


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Sounds seriously depressed. Is she on meds + therapy?


Meds yes, therapy no. My original thread will explain a lot -> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/anxiet.../47962-newbie-wits-end-my-depressed-wife.html


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

JoeRockStar said:


> If past conversations are any indicator, she will flip out and then try to make me the bad guy. She won't give a crap about my son at that point, she will only look to demonize me. She does this in almost EVERY single argument we've ever had, it's exhausting and I avoid confrontation with her like the plague because of it. She is not a rational person when she gets angry and will do anything she can to play the martyr.


 That's so unfortunate. Perhaps the other support people that others have mentioned would be of some help, but even then I'm sure it would be a challenge with your wife likely sabotaging anything accomplished via those means with her own negative behaviors towards you that your son would likely experience. I'm at a loss, Joe. 

We've all got your back though!! Whatever you decide, we're all here for you to vent to.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> That's so unfortunate. Perhaps the other support people that others have mentioned would be of some help, but even then I'm sure it would be a challenge with your wife likely sabotaging anything accomplished via those means with her own negative behaviors towards you that your son would likely experience. I'm at a loss, Joe.
> 
> We've all got your back though!! Whatever you decide, we're all here for you to vent to.


If we could manage to have healthy disagreements, our marriage would probably be in much better shape!

Thank you StatusQuo, I really appreciate you and everyone else listening to my rants and offering advice. This forum has helped me tremendously in the short time I've been here. It has not had the effect I originally intended, I thought I would find some magic bullet to fix my marriage when I first came here. But, almost everything I have read leads me to believe it is likely beyond repair. While it's upsetting, it's probably the reality and this place is helping me come to terms with it.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

My son is autistic as well. It's all how it's framed. Ex and I chose NOT to frame it as a tragedy. Just a very large change to the routine. We didn't color as an emotionally bad thing. 4 years out both children are doing very well. 

But ... don't kid yourself that it will be _easier_ when he's older. It won't.

My kids were 6 and 2 when I moved out.

I haven't kept up on your other thread. Have you tried the MEM protocol?
Consists of 2 options, with the driving tenet that you accept that she does not wish to be sexual, but you do not accept that her choice means that you must be non-sexual as well.

1. You will satisfy your sexual needs outside of the marriage while remaining married.

2. Divorce.

It's a grenade you should not throw unless you are full prepared to deliver on either option.

If you know she is going to freak out no matter what the confrontation, then you might as well give her something worth freaking out over. And then ignore the freak out.

There is nothing to discuss. There is only a choice for her to make.

And to clarify, I only suggest this presuming that you are starting to think about straying, or know that you are 'done' with the marriage. If you
aren't ... then by all means disregard the above.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

JoeRockStar said:


> If we could manage to have healthy disagreements, our marriage would probably be in much better shape!
> 
> Thank you StatusQuo, I really appreciate you and everyone else listening to my rants and offering advice. This forum has helped me tremendously in the short time I've been here. It has not had the effect I originally intended, I thought I would find some magic bullet to fix my marriage when I first came here. But, almost everything I have read leads me to believe it is likely beyond repair. While it's upsetting, it's probably the reality and this place is helping me come to terms with it.


I know what you mean. I'm still looking for the thread that will tell me what size pliers I need to use to remove my husbands head from his ass, but I've yet to come across it. If you happen to see it, let me know, okay??

In the meantime, I hope that something in your situation changes for the better; whether it be your wife realizing that things need to change and taking action, or it be you finding your own happiness without her.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

JoeRockStar said:


> To all the guys with LD wives, does it bug you that your wife doesn't "want" you? Does it add insult to injury when you know for a fact that another woman or women DO want you?
> 
> This has been driving me insane lately and I'm worried that it's going to lead me down a dangerous road. My wife's drive sucks and mine has always been uber high. I play in a rock cover band on weekends and I'm constantly approached by beautiful women who make it QUITE clear they're very interested in me. When I tell them I'm married I get comments like "let me know if you get a hall pass" or "too bad, she's a lucky girl". Then I go home to my dud of a wife and have to jump through fiery hoops to MAYBE get her in the mood. Given the choice, she'd rather play video games on her computer.
> 
> ...


Do you still have the hots for your wife? Or is it the hotties you have the hots for?


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Wives, most especially the lower drive, passive wives are life’s greatest observers. They learn about their husband not by asking him questions but by observing his behaviour over time and watching his body language.

Much like a scientist observes ants.

Through their observations they know far more about you than you can even begin to imagine.

It may well be that your wife observes that you aren’t really up for it until after you’ve been turned on by the hotties at one of your sessions.

And she says something to herself like “No way does he get it from me, I’m different, I’m his wife not one of his hotties”.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You probably need to make your wife your hottie.


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## MooseAndSquirrel (Jun 7, 2012)

I was in your situation 798 days ago. I am now happily divorced so I guess that tells you how I handled it. The problem with asking for more sex is that she is doing it because she HAS to, not because she WANTS to. And yes, I want to be wanted.

I actually started despising my sex drive because it was making me miserable.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

AFEH said:


> Do you still have the hots for your wife? Or is it the hotties you have the hots for?


I do still have the hots for her but the build up of resentment is killing it. She's a beautiful woman who is too freaking lazy to show it so she looks like crap most of the time. When she makes the slightest effort, she looks fantastic to me and I make it point to tell her. Sadly those times are relatively few and far between.

I also think of all the hoops I have to jump through to get her in "the mood" and it kills any "hots" in a hurry.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

AFEH said:


> Wives, most especially the lower drive, passive wives are life’s greatest observers. They learn about their husband not by asking him questions but by observing his behaviour over time and watching his body language.
> 
> Much like a scientist observes ants.
> 
> ...


Interesting theory, but these problems started long before I got back into playing in a band.  The "hotties" have just exasperate them.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

MooseAndSquirrel said:


> I was in your situation 798 days ago. I am now happily divorced so I guess that tells you how I handled it. The problem with asking for more sex is that she is doing it because she HAS to, not because she WANTS to. And yes, I want to be wanted.
> 
> I actually started despising my sex drive because it was making me miserable.


Glad to hear things worked out for you! :smthumbup:

What I cannot understand for the life of me is that when we DO have sex, it's fantastic for both parties. It would probably be easier if it wasn't.... :scratchhead:


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## geek down (May 10, 2012)

My STBXW always SAID she was in the mood and wanted to have sex or foolaround, but without me initiating it, sex would never happen.. She'd sit there and cry that I don't want her, yet she'd never, ever do anything about it...

then when I initiate, she'd shut me down and say she's not in the mood..I took to walking around naked just to see if I could get a rise out of her.. we have an L shaped couch and I would lay on one side naked waiting for her.. she'd walk in and sit on the far opposite end...and not even look at me below the neckline.. Then she'd sit there and cry that I don't touch her...

I haven't felt wanted in years.. I feel ugly, fat and not sexy because of what she would do, or in this case not do..I became more comfortable with my body once I accepted that she cannot, will not and would not give me what i need to have for a healthy sexual relationship.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

These stories are bringing out the "ditto" in me.

My story is pretty much the same as all of yours. And I'm getting so tired of fighting the temptation and advances from others.

I'm no prize. I'm very overweight and opinionated. I'm quick to lose the temper sometimes and watch too much football. Yet STILL there are women out there that would have me. I'm no longer sure putting yourself through intimacy torture is worth it.


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## one_strange_otter (Aug 26, 2008)

Ditto


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Sorry... long. 

It sucks. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. We have turned it around. I hate to admit that it took her having affairs to get the leverage for that change. I don’t recommend that route, however her truly ‘getting it’ that this has built up to a deal breaker may be enough to get her to want to change. The real issue is she has to really want to change this. And unfortunately, you can’t control what she wants. 

So, control what you can. Yourself. Just focus on yourself and being an attractive person (who you think is a attractive person, not what comes out her mouth). Note that complaining isn’t a ‘turn on’. Do you drag her out to your band gigs? It doesn’t hurt for her to see you in a different light as well as the interest you get from other females; a threat to her security might be a jolt. 

Have you started ‘detaching’ from the relationship? Basically its putting out those signals to her that you are beginning to drift away from ‘needing’ her in any way and becoming more self-sufficient. You are working on you so you no longer need her or anyone else to feel good about yourself. I also ‘gamed’ my wife; Little intimate touches and looks without trying to take it any further. Its important not to take every single opportunity to test her ‘willingness’. You might even practice rejection and your own restraint without taking it personally. You might reject her if you aren’t really wanting sex and its offered. Like after you do those little intimate things and, because you’ve trained her that ‘it’s a pass’, she may just be saying ok to pacify you. That’s duty sex and you don’t want it. 

The depression which will affect her libido. Sucks, but taking away the security of the marriage (through distancing) will depress her more; You just have to do it so she hits bottom, looks around and recognizes that she landed herself in the bottom of the pit and there’s no one trying to pull her out; You do risk that she won’t ever see it and now you no longer serve a purpose for her (and are just seen as an insensitive prick) You will be busy going about getting on with your own life instead of letting her drag you into her hole she dug; You will feel happier as well and less dependant on mirroring her emotional state. You are saving yourself. She’s going to have to climb out without help. I hated that part; watching her and wanting to help cheer her up, but you have to resist until she finds her own way. Just encourage her without being a safety net or letting her rely on you. Don’t carry her burden for her. IC can help her on this. It’s a very slippery slope and going to be hard. *Provide hope, not reliance. *

It will also get confusing during this period. She’ll be floundering about like a fish out of water. Just stick to your path and don’t fall for it. Let it play out. My wife started with the negative ‘punishment’ ways to get me to react to her: guilt, anger, suicide threats, demonizing, etc. I had to rip her apart when she did this stuff. Because I made it rather ‘unsavory’ to try and fix issues by destructive patterns, she moved onto seduction and the Stepford wife stuff. I stuck to my path... I want an equal, not some submissive trying to please. Over time, she learned new tools and coping mechanisms to self-soothe and deal with things without reliance or fear from me. That’s when I started to re-engage into the relationship and she was re-building herself into someone attractive that I wanted to be with instead of avoid.

Its that depression (and a bunch of other issues like entitlement, expectations, coping method, etc.) that puts her in a mindset of ‘why I shouldn’t’. Break it and when she knows she can change things around for the better herself, she’ll be more prone to stop making up excuses and just enjoying it again.... If you help, I found my wife resented me even more because internally she recognized how weak she was as a person. So, she’d blame me for making her feel that way... By forcing her to go without a safety net, she was able to discover her own strengths and that she could do this.


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## JoeRockStar (Jun 5, 2012)

Wow, I can't possibly like this post enough times, thank you for your insight Racer! I'm VERY glad to see that someone has been successful in salvaging a relationship in similar shape, it really gives me some hope for a welcome change!



Racer said:


> Sorry... long.
> 
> It sucks. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. We have turned it around. I hate to admit that it took her having affairs to get the leverage for that change. I don’t recommend that route, however her truly ‘getting it’ that this has built up to a deal breaker may be enough to get her to want to change. The real issue is she has to really want to change this. And unfortunately, you can’t control what she wants.


I have tried to stress this to her, she needs to change for HERSELF, not me. Once she gets herself and her life together, everything else will fall into place. At this point in the game, if it takes an affair to fix things, so be it. It's on the verge of collapse anyway. She's unhappy with or without me so that's what needs fixing first. You can't love someone else if you can't love yourself first. 



> So, control what you can. Yourself. Just focus on yourself and being an attractive person (who you think is a attractive person, not what comes out her mouth). Note that complaining isn’t a ‘turn on’. Do you drag her out to your band gigs? It doesn’t hurt for her to see you in a different light as well as the interest you get from other females; a threat to her security might be a jolt.


This is exactly what I've been doing as per the NMMNG book and I've been relatively successful short of a quick relapse last weekend that I hated myself for. Definitely not a complainer, I'm more the type to keep it inside and stew until it all blows up at an inopportune time. 

I don't have to drag her to the shows, she enjoys coming to see me play and also enjoys the popularity that comes with being married to a band member. All the girls in the audience don't seem to really bother her unless they get too close, then the claws and fangs come out. She grew up in a tough neighborhood and knows how to fight so I think she goes instantly into fight mode rather than it register as an incentive to try harder.



> Have you started ‘detaching’ from the relationship? Basically its putting out those signals to her that you are beginning to drift away from ‘needing’ her in any way and becoming more self-sufficient. You are working on you so you no longer need her or anyone else to feel good about yourself. I also ‘gamed’ my wife; Little intimate touches and looks without trying to take it any further. Its important not to take every single opportunity to test her ‘willingness’. You might even practice rejection and your own restraint without taking it personally. You might reject her if you aren’t really wanting sex and its offered. Like after you do those little intimate things and, because you’ve trained her that ‘it’s a pass’, she may just be saying ok to pacify you. That’s duty sex and you don’t want it.


I'm proud to say I have! I've been spending more time with male friends that I've alienated somewhat by all the time I've spent with her trying to make things work. I've been doing more "me" things at home like spending more time playing guitar and working on my vette instead of cleaning and cooking. She's definitely noticing and I don't think she knows what to make of it at this point. She keeps trying to inject herself into things, for example I was telling her in a conversation how playing out with the band is the one thing that truly makes me happy, she immediately piped in with "I thought I made you happy?" Silly of course, but you can see by that statement how she's confused and keeps trying to make herself my priority.

You're correct on the duty sex, I will always pass on that. It is however difficult to say no when there is the occasional valid opportunity, it's like a starving man looking at a filet mignon! 




> The depression which will affect her libido. Sucks, but taking away the security of the marriage (through distancing) will depress her more; You just have to do it so she hits bottom, looks around and recognizes that she landed herself in the bottom of the pit and there’s no one trying to pull her out; You do risk that she won’t ever see it and now you no longer serve a purpose for her (and are just seen as an insensitive prick) You will be busy going about getting on with your own life instead of letting her drag you into her hole she dug; You will feel happier as well and less dependant on mirroring her emotional state. You are saving yourself. She’s going to have to climb out without help. I hated that part; watching her and wanting to help cheer her up, but you have to resist until she finds her own way. Just encourage her without being a safety net or letting her rely on you. Don’t carry her burden for her. IC can help her on this. It’s a very slippery slope and going to be hard. *Provide hope, not reliance. *


She was in fact starting to drag me into the hole she had dug for herself, I found this forum out of desperation to keep myself out of said hole. I'm glad I did!  I can understand how you hated this part, it's never easy to watch a loved one struggle but I see it as akin to spoiling a child, by helping too much you actually do more harm than good.

I have suggested IC to her numerous times, so far she doesn't think it's needed. I tried to frame it as her having someone else to talk to besides me, hopefully she'll bite. I think it would do her some good.



> It will also get confusing during this period. She’ll be floundering about like a fish out of water. Just stick to your path and don’t fall for it. Let it play out. My wife started with the negative ‘punishment’ ways to get me to react to her: guilt, anger, suicide threats, demonizing, etc. I had to rip her apart when she did this stuff. Because I made it rather ‘unsavory’ to try and fix issues by destructive patterns, she moved onto seduction and the Stepford wife stuff. I stuck to my path... *I want an equal, not some submissive trying to please*. Over time, she learned new tools and coping mechanisms to self-soothe and deal with things without reliance or fear from me. That’s when I started to re-engage into the relationship and she was re-building herself into someone attractive that I wanted to be with instead of avoid.


As I stated, I'm starting to see the floundering now. I can hear the small guilt trips and it's only a matter of time before she tries nastier things, I have to fight to stay strong!

Hallelujah!!! Testify!!! I never wanted someone above or below me, want a partner on equal footing. That's the thing, it USED to be that way until her brother's suicide started her down this depression spiral. I just want things back the way they were, I understand that neither of us are the same people who married 20 years ago, but the parts that made us fall in love and be happy for a long time have to be in there somewhere!



> Its that depression (and a bunch of other issues like entitlement, expectations, coping method, etc.) that puts her in a mindset of ‘why I shouldn’t’. Break it and when she knows she can change things around for the better herself, she’ll be more prone to stop making up excuses and just enjoying it again.... If you help, I found my wife resented me even more because internally she recognized how weak she was as a person. So, she’d blame me for making her feel that way... By forcing her to go without a safety net, she was able to discover her own strengths and that she could do this.


Once again, thank you VERY much for taking the time to write this, it's giving me hope that things might be able to be fixed. And, equally important, if they cannot I will survive because of all I've done and am still doing to become self reliant. :smthumbup:


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

JoeRockStar said:


> To all the guys with LD wives, does it bug you that your wife doesn't "want" you? Does it add insult to injury when you know for a fact that another woman or women DO want you?


It's been years, but Yes and Yes. 

This is no answer for you and I'm not pretending it is, but things did get much better. I got older, and her libido exploded in her mid-forties. Except for our religious differences, we are quite happy now.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Joe, just keep bein' awesome! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bellavista (May 29, 2012)

I also have an aspergers son, he is 24 now. At 18 he was still much the same as he was at 16.
At 24 he is much the same except that sometimes he can understand that his responses come from the Aspergers.
We no longer expect him to respond to things the same as our non-aspie kids. I would suggest that you try to prepare your son if your decision is going to be to divorce. Explain over & over that it is not his fault, that things may change, but he will still be your son.
Try not to have too many changes at once. ie, if turning 18 also culminates in finishing school or similar, you don't want to hit him with them all in a short time period.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

JoeRockStar said:


> I have tried to stress this to her, she needs to change for HERSELF, not me. Once she gets herself and her life together, everything else will fall into place. At this point in the game, if it takes an affair to fix things, so be it. It's on the verge of collapse anyway. She's unhappy with or without me so that's what needs fixing first. You can't love someone else if you can't love yourself first.


lol... You absolutely do not want it to go to affair levels. That’s much, much harder for you and its going have a very minimal survival rate. And, you can not place it all on her shoulders. Yes, she’s got to work, but there a ton of work to do on yourself as well so you are an attractive mate. The way it works is she (and others) respond to your changes. You can’t sit back and hope she’ll ‘get it”. I thought in terms of rediscovering the man I was BEFORE I changed to accomodate her ‘wants’ and my own impressions and expectations of marriage. That guy she fell in love with. The guy I turned into, regardless of whether or not she said she wanted those things, she was not at all attracted to. Being my own man IS attractive. 


> This is exactly what I've been doing as per the NMMNG book and I've been relatively successful short of a quick relapse last weekend that I hated myself for. Definitely not a complainer, I'm more the type to keep it inside and stew until it all blows up at an inopportune time.


I used the NMMNG program as well. Yes, you’ll screw it up from time to time. Just own it, learn, and plod forward. Also, don’t just ‘cherry pick’ out of the program. Sexual attraction isn’t just “one thing” within a long term relationship. Sure, at the outset it may have been just chemistry and physical attraction, but now she sees the whole package and judges it. So, you need to step it up and work on the whole package to change her perception. Just keep in mind how difficult it is to define what gives you that pull toward another; It really is complex as hell and what you ‘think’ is attractive might not be in the long run or be overwhelmed by other unattractive traits. And what she tells you would make her happy is unreliable, changes daily, and probably a moving target. So just trust yourself and fix those things you don’t like about yourself. 


> I don't have to drag her to the shows, she enjoys coming to see me play and also enjoys the popularity that comes with being married to a band member.


Cool. Good to have her see you in a different light and getting out of the house. I found for me, just sitting around the house was a kind of trigger for her. She just saw all those ‘undone’ things and the enormity of it all... the never ending list of things that ‘need’ to be done. That fed her depression. So, if you can swing it, get out at least once a week and make sure to spend several hours a week just relaxing. Enjoy those moments and reinforce with her how enjoyable it is to find those moments of fun with her. (And don’t screw it up by trying for sex). Think of it as hanging out.


> I'm proud to say I have! I've been spending more time with male friends that I've alienated somewhat by all the time I've spent with her trying to make things work. I've been doing more "me" things at home like spending more time playing guitar and working on my vette instead of cleaning and cooking. She's definitely noticing and I don't think she knows what to make of it at this point. She keeps trying to inject herself into things, for example I was telling her in a conversation how playing out with the band is the one thing that truly makes me happy, she immediately piped in with "I thought I made you happy?" Silly of course, but you can see by that statement how she's confused and keeps trying to make herself my priority.


That’s a classic. And in a NG way, I’m sure you responded with a ‘of coarse you do’. This is where I’m just brutally honest to a fault. I tell her how happy I am is rather conditional. I can be happy, there are happy moments, but for the most part (at least back then), she was unpleasant to be around. Then I go on about how I’m trying to turn that around by making plans and ‘forcing’ her to have fun with me instead of doing chores. Just explain that you too want to have fun and be more than ‘just a doer of things she wants done’ like a butler. 

Sidenote; The brutally honest thing in my opinion is hard as hell, but necessary. My wife liked to ‘mind read’ into situations. I learned to simply communicate exactly how I felt and my perceptions. It’s letting my wife into my own bizzare little world of how my mind works. It isn’t entirely sane or rational in there. Yet it is fairly consistent. The old me wouldn’t ‘rock the boat’ and say things that wouldn’t bother her. The new me doesn’t hide this insecurity or try to make her ‘not worry’. By being an open book, you are much easier to read and there is a whole lot less ‘reading between the lines’ going on that contributes to her depression. She’ll know where she stands and where you stand. (And yes, sometimes its in the muddy pit). 



> You're correct on the duty sex, I will always pass on that. It is however difficult to say no when there is the occasional valid opportunity, it's like a starving man looking at a filet mignon!


Its very hard to pass up when you aren’t getting any. Another strategy that helped me was essentially to acknowledge verbally that she was offering me duty sex ‘for my benefit’. Then, become a very selfish lover; Your favorite position, plow her through the headboard, and go to sleep with a smile on your face: Do not consider her satisfaction (hard one for a NG). Yes, she’ll complain. Just back it up that you are only using her just like she offered. If she wants satisfaction, she’s going to have to participate and learn how to become a lover instead of a warm hole. 



> She was in fact starting to drag me into the hole she had dug for herself, I found this forum out of desperation to keep myself out of said hole. I'm glad I did!  I can understand how you hated this part, it's never easy to watch a loved one struggle but I see it as akin to spoiling a child, by helping too much you actually do more harm than good.


Yup... Its hard as hell watching a loved one destroy themselves and place themselves on paths that insure they won’t find happiness. If you can get her to see this, this is your goal. The way I approached it was just talking about my own transformation. I talked a lot about how I was trying different approaches to solve my dilemmas. I talked about the path I started on and how I saw that ending (divorce, resentment, anger, etc.) and how I was trying to put myself on the path where I got what I wanted. This is the “leading” part. You aren’t telling her to do it, you are telling her that you are doing this, struggling, and letting her judge for herself whether its working or not. It is the opposite of digging a hole and throwing a pity party for yourself. Its finding your own swagger again.


> Hallelujah!!! Testify!!! I never wanted someone above or below me, want a partner on equal footing. That's the thing, it USED to be that way until her brother's suicide started her down this depression spiral. I just want things back the way they were, I understand that neither of us are the same people who married 20 years ago, but the parts that made us fall in love and be happy for a long time have to be in there somewhere!


Fantastic you actually get it. A lot of guys claim they want a Stepford wife... I have no idea how you can respect that sort of woman. I want someone who challenges me on multiple levels. 



> Once again, thank you VERY much for taking the time to write this, it's giving me hope that things might be able to be fixed. And, equally important, if they cannot I will survive because of all I've done and am still doing to become self reliant. :smthumbup:


Not a problem. Just know that it is NOT a magic pill. It took almost 6 months for myself to just feel better about my own reflection. 8 months before I started noting any significant changes in my wife. And about a year and a half to get the sex life I wanted that she appears to want as well. And there isn’t any one thing, or concept or philosophy that will fix this. It takes a ton of work from you; Do not expect it will get her to change one damned thing. If it does, that’s just icing. If it doesn’t, at least you’ll be confident enough in yourself and your direction that the ‘stay or leave’ question won’t be based on fears, but will be based on your own assessment of who you are, what you want out of life, and how she may or may not fit into it all.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Was she like this when you two were dating? Or was she a higher drive?

Also, I've heard that marriage gets a lot better after your kids get older, and out of the house. Most marriages don't get to that point, but from I have heard, if you get to that point, the marriage is wonderful and smooth sailing. (I am sure there are exceptions, so don't spam me with exceptions)

As for this...


JoeRockStar said:


> Sometimes I wish I could take a pill that would totally kill my sex drive. My life would be soooo much easier.


I can tell you the pills to take...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Racer,
This is textbook execution - beautiful stuff. 

The guys on here - who fail - are in this terrible spiral of: I did x,y and z, I am detaching and really angry she isn't having more sex with me. They seem unable to grasp that their obsessive focus on her approval and fear of her disapproval - prevents any progress at all. 

And for sure, one thing I realize that they do - which is so very corrosive in terms of respect: 
Wife acts angry/hostile without any obvious reason - husband assumes it must be his fault. Tries to fix her/her mood. 

My W knows when I view her behavior as *****y/out of line. If convenient/possible for me, I leave her presence. If not, I ignore her. 





Racer said:


> lol... You absolutely do not want it to go to affair levels. That’s much, much harder for you and its going have a very minimal survival rate. And, you can not place it all on her shoulders. Yes, she’s got to work, but there a ton of work to do on yourself as well so you are an attractive mate. The way it works is she (and others) respond to your changes. You can’t sit back and hope she’ll ‘get it”. I thought in terms of rediscovering the man I was BEFORE I changed to accomodate her ‘wants’ and my own impressions and expectations of marriage. That guy she fell in love with. The guy I turned into, regardless of whether or not she said she wanted those things, she was not at all attracted to. Being my own man IS attractive.
> 
> I used the NMMNG program as well. Yes, you’ll screw it up from time to time. Just own it, learn, and plod forward. Also, don’t just ‘cherry pick’ out of the program. Sexual attraction isn’t just “one thing” within a long term relationship. Sure, at the outset it may have been just chemistry and physical attraction, but now she sees the whole package and judges it. So, you need to step it up and work on the whole package to change her perception. Just keep in mind how difficult it is to define what gives you that pull toward another; It really is complex as hell and what you ‘think’ is attractive might not be in the long run or be overwhelmed by other unattractive traits. And what she tells you would make her happy is unreliable, changes daily, and probably a moving target. So just trust yourself and fix those things you don’t like about yourself.
> 
> ...


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Joe, I have skimmed your other thread and this one. Is there any chance of abuse in your wife's history? An alcoholic parent, Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality disorder, or other traumatic stuff in her upbringing?

Check into the divorce and especially alimony laws in your state. The usual setup is some kind of formula based on years married. She gets 1 yr of alimony for every year you were married, or maybe one year of alimony for every two years you've been married. But here is the kicker, after a specific number of years married she is entitled to lifetime alimony. In my state that number is 20 years. I see you just had your 19th anniversary...

It reads to me like you are using your son's situation as a reason to avoid making a decision. You can always find some reason to put it off just a bit longer. He's getting better. He's getting closer to 18. Ok, but when he is 18 he will still not be 100%. When he is 30 he will not be 100%.

I have used my kids and various events as excuses to procrastinate making a decision. I see in you exactly the same kind of rationalizations I have used.

I think you are in a fabulous time slot right now where you have the time to get everything organized for as positive an outcome as possible for all involved. If you do nothing, things are only going to get worse, so you might as well take charge right now so things can be better under your own terms.

If you are divorced, you can control your son's environment better than you can now. There will be a transition period but that can be managed according to others on this thread who have done it with an asperger's child.

Have you read "No More Mr. Nice Guy"? There is an excellent support forum over at No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin which might interest you.


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