# He makes an effort for a few weeks and then..



## Angeline (Aug 25, 2016)

Things go back to the same old pattern. 

Why!?? 

I don't understand how we can discuss something that is very important to me, (nothing unreasonable,) come to an agreement and then ultimately, nothing changes. :-|

If he filled me in on something that was important to him, I'd be completely willing to accommodate him, (assuming it was fair.) I WANT him to be happy. 

I feel like his lack of effort is a direct reflection on how much he is invested in our marriage/how much he cares. 
We've been together for over 20 years and for the most part, things are alright. But the same s*** happens over and over...

This last time the problem occured, I sent him one text to clarify my feelings. Trying something different, I did NOT initiate a conversation..something I usually do.
He did not respond to that text.

I just 'love' how he avoids problems as if they'll just disappear if he ignores them long enough. He NEVER initiates anything that has to do with talking about tough subjects. 
I am so, so, so tired and disappointed in this dynamic. 

Now, suddenly, I feel barely lukewarm toward him and honestly don't have any amourous feelings for him right now. 
It's been almost 2 weeks and he carries on like things are alright - he has no complaints. 

I don't want to hug him, kiss him, talk to him more than necessary, etc..so I am not. He seems fine with that. 

I want a guy who will notice and care and ask what WE can do to make it better!
Ugh. I am so incredibly frustrated. 

I feel like he'll go on forever with me just blah toward him if it means avoiding a conversation. His passive behavior is repulsive actually. I hate it. 

I however know I can't do this forever. At some point we need to talk, right!?? It just never helps. 

Honestly, I'm afraid of losing my feeling for him permanently. I don't want that. It's something that I am aftaid I can't control. 
Like falling in love, but in this case, falling out of it. 

At this point, as a man, please tell me...what on God's green earth can I do to get through to him!?? 

Thank you!


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## Angeline (Aug 25, 2016)

Excuse the typos*


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## Annette Tush (May 4, 2016)

What you are going through sounds very frustrating, but it is very common. I am just curious though, when you are discussing most of the issues, does he seem to be fully involved, giving suggestions or he just agrees to your ideas to avoid arguments? if that is the case, he has no strong motivation to change because those re not his ideas.

Then, it seems you are fighting someone's personality. Some men fear having serious discussions, hence the passive behavior. For these twenty years, if he has been like that, and maybe that is how he is. I am not excusing his behavior, but I am just wondering. There are somethings I do constantly, and they annoy my husband, but even if I try, I find myself doing those things again. It could be one of those things you might have to deal with in your marriage, some things never change. Good luck


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Well, he's not facing any lasting consequences it seems, so why would things change?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

You can tell him exactly what you said here, just with the emphasis on the falling out of love part. If he's a reasonably intelligent man, he'll understand that that is a very real possibility.

It's a fairly common personality trait, I'm afraid. I'm married to a woman who tends to stick her head in the sand about a lot of things, too. It's very frustrating.

The problem is, patience WILL eventually run out, and things inevitably go sideways. Once something hits the breaking point is really only when change will actually be made - or not made, which puts the decision on you, but it's easier.





Angeline said:


> Things go back to the same old pattern.
> 
> Why!??
> 
> ...


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

Without specific details, it's hard to give specific advice. However, after 20 years of the same pattern, why would you expect something to change?


People and relationships are like clay. It is easy to mold them, design them, and change them early on. After a while, the pattern is less easily shaped. Only so much time can go by before the sculpture is shaped into it's final form. Once it is shaped into the final form, it can be nudged around from time to time, but the shape is too resistant for any further changes to occur. If one applies too much pressure in search of further change, cracks begin to appear and the sculpture could even break completely. 

Now that the clay of your sculpture has dried, you must determine if you can accept your sculpture as-is, or if you would like to try again with a new lump of clay...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What's missing is you telling him what the consequence is going to be if he doesn't do what you need. 

What IS the consequence going to be? Both of you need to be clear on that. 

And then you have to carry THROUGH on the consequence.

And note that a consequence is not something you do 'to' him. It's something YOU do as a result of him hurting you. He has no control over what YOU do; therefore it behooves him to take it seriously.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Edo Edo said:


> People and relationships are like clay. It is easy to mold them, design them, and change them early on. After a while, the pattern is less easily shaped. Only so much time can go by before the sculpture is shaped into it's final form. Once it is shaped into the final form, it can be nudged around from time to time, but the shape is too resistant for any further changes to occur. If one applies too much pressure in search of further change, cracks begin to appear and the sculpture could even break completely.
> 
> Now that the clay of your sculpture has dried, you must determine if you can accept your sculpture as-is, or if you would like to try again with a new lump of clay...


FABULOUS ILLUSTRATION.

For 15 years in my marriage I would sit my XH down and beg him to make the adjustments needed to save our marriage. He would try for a week or two, make a slew of promises, but everything always went back to the same way it was. He was sure I would never leave. He was wrong. Just like I did, you have to decide what you are going to do.


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## Angeline (Aug 25, 2016)

Everything that you all are saying makes perfect sense, thank you!
He is a reasonable guy but is also stubborn.

I don't know why I would expect him to finally decide to change so far into the marriage. I guess it's just that I have finally reached the end of my patience with him 'not taking me seriously enough to make a lasting effort.' 

There have been no serious consequences ever. We go through patterns of me being frustrated, us not talking much, then having that convo, things getting a little better, then back to square one. That's the cycle.

This time, once we circled back to the same old starting point, I had it. Felt deeply exasperated and done.

I feel like my not giving him the time of day right now and me not being my happy, upbeat self around him is the consequence. No affection, no connection, definitely no where near any sex, etc...I am very affectionate and will massage him, love on him, etc, on a regular basis, so I hope he feels the void. The truth is, I don't want to be close to a guy that doesn't care, or acts like it. 

Normally, I'd have brought the issue up again, in person, and we'd have had a discussion by now. (He usually does have his own suggestions for change, to answer the first comment.) 
However, it doesn't help. It's a personality trait that I cannot stand anymore. 
Passive aggression with emotional maturity issues are a life-sucker. 

I am feeling partially-numb toward him as a protection mechanism, I suppose. 

Anyhow, the consequence this time, is him losing his wife right before his eyes. 
I am not myself around him...he said the other day that he's angry, but in passing.
I imagine he wants me to ask him why.
I didn't. 
I know he is not happy with this. But he is the type to do f'ing nothing. Ugh. 

If only he'd open his eyes and see how he has the power to do something to help it.
Always waiting for me though. 

sigh....


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Angeline said:


> *This last time the problem occured, I sent him one text to clarify my feelings. Trying something different, I did NOT initiate a conversation..something I usually do.
> He did not respond to that text.
> 
> I just 'love' how he avoids problems as if they'll just disappear if he ignores them long enough. He NEVER initiates anything that has to do with talking about tough subjects.
> ...



He does not initiate discussions about tough subjects because those subjects aren't important to him. He's happy with the status quo. You're the one who is unhappy. And, so, he responds in whatever fashion you seem to require to make you stop talking about it. But there is absolutely zero incentive for him to bring it up. In his mind, he's not the one who has the problem, so expecting him to initiate conversations about things that likely don't matter to him may be unrealistic. 

Also, I see that you tried something different this last time. Instead of initiating a conversation - that you are well aware will result in no lasting change - you simply stated your feelings and dropped it. You've de-escalated. In your husband's mind, that means that the issue is less of a problem now. After all, you're making less of a big deal about it, you dropped it. When you finally stop even stating your feelings, he will believe that the issue has stopped being a problem all together. In his mind, if you finally stop talking about the problem it will be because you've finally realized it's not that big a deal, noticed how good you've got it with him, and decided to finally just be happy like him. He will not know that it's because you've finally given up on him. Right now, he's likely just waiting for you to get over whatever you're mad about and go back to being normal, like he has. Experience has taught him that, eventually, you'll stop fussing and get over it. He likely doesn't realize that this new tone is because you're just bone tired of dealing with it, and him, and are finally nearing being done. 

If this issue is something that you actually can live with, then I encourage you to find a way to achieve acceptance of the fact that he's not going to do anything about it. You may be able to convince yourself that it's not actually a deal-breaker for you. If that's the case, then for your own sanity, you're going to need to stop complaining about it and simply let it go. 

If, however, this issue is really is something you cannot tolerate, then you're going to have to figure out what the consequences are for him not addressing it. Be really clear. "Husband, when you do X, it makes me feel less in love with you. It makes me less interested in having sex with you. I'm afraid if we don't fix this issue so that we can _both_ be happy, our marriage will be in real trouble and likely end." See if he's willing to attend MC with you, or read _His Needs, Her Needs _with you. If he's just not wiling to make the changes you need on a permanent basis, then you may have to decide if you really want to spend the rest of your life in this relationship.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

What types of issues are these? I think it matters.

My wife does this over issues involving our sex life, but I think it is because fundamentally she has almost no desire for sex. She honestly wants to change, but can't. 

Issues with addiction (smoking, drinking etc) could also result in a case were someone wants to change but is unable to do so long term.

Other issues like not helping around the house could just be laziness - no good excuse for that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Angeline said:


> There have been no serious consequences ever.
> 
> I feel like my not giving him the time of day right now and me not being my happy, upbeat self around him is the consequence. No affection, no connection, definitely no where near any sex, etc...I am very affectionate and will massage him, love on him, etc, on a regular basis, so I hope he feels the void. The truth is, I don't want to be close to a guy that doesn't care, or acts like it.


You're misunderstanding boundaries and consequences. There are many books on it. A boundary is what YOU require in YOUR marriage, no matter who you're married to. I will not stay in a marriage in which I'm being cheated on. Or hit. Or stolen from. Stuff like that. 

A consequence is what YOU do to protect YOURSELF once he crosses that boundary, whatever it is. 

So if you need ABC from him (not lying, whatever), you inform him of that need. And you also inform him what your consequence will be if he chooses to cross that boundary. If I find out you lied to me, I will take the kids and go stay with my mom for a week so I can recover from the pain without you around. 

As I said, notice that it does NOT require anything from him. It is what YOU do to protect yourself, not to punish him. 

Now if you say this, and you enact your consequence, but he keeps doing it, eventually you'll end up LIVING at your mom's house. So you have to come up with a point at which you acknowledge this marriage isn't working as is because he's not honoring your boundary, and you have to make a choice to end it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Angeline said:


> This time, once we circled back to the same old starting point, I had it. Felt deeply exasperated and done.
> 
> Normally, I'd have brought the issue up again, in person, and we'd have had a discussion by now. (He usually does have his own suggestions for change, to answer the first comment.)
> However, it doesn't help.


And what's missing HERE is that you two SAY what you want, but you don't take the extra steps to determine HOW that change will take effect. Of course nothing changes. You didn't determine how to make it happen (new boundary). And what would happen (consequence) if he doesn't follow through on the changes HE agrees to make.

Now, if you're talking about immaturity and passive aggressiveness, these are not things he does. These are things he IS. You can't make a person change. HE can possibly change, but not without a LOT lot lot of personal therapy in which he is given homework and is held accountable for doing it or not.

And he is never going to WANT to change as long as you are there, alongside him, accepting him as he is. Why should he change?

You may just have to look into separation. Both to give you peace of mind and to give him a reason/opportunity to change.


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## Angeline (Aug 25, 2016)

I guess I have misunderstood, all this time, what should be done. I have always given consequences such as not being available to him, being upset, etc..but I have never said "if you do this, then this."

I know it's not, but it sounds like talking to a child, or always has to me. 
But it is true. I need to say, if you decide to do this, then I will do this. 
Clear consequences. I do not believe it will do much, but maybe having that clarity will do *something* to help.

At this point, doing what I am doing, (not feeling or acting like my positive self and pulling away,) what would be the best next step??

I need specific help because I am so at a loss. 

We've been married 21 years and together 24. You'd think I'd have this down but really I have just built a high tolerance to bs.
Stupid me. 

I don't know why I am now unable to tolerate it, other than the fact that I realized recently that there is so much love and affection and joy inside of me that I want to share with my SO but I find myself stifling it quite often. 
That and I turned 39 this year. I want a life that I love, not that I am struggling with.

Fyi- we have 3 kids together...20, (away at college) 14 & 11...we were high school sweethearts with our share of problems then even. : /

Oh and to answer another question. In regard to specific things that mess up our connection.. 

Most recent example:

We're getting ready to leave for the beach 2 Saturdays ago. My youngest is asleep in his room at about 7:30am. I wanted to let him sleep since we were about to have a very full day. 
I hop in for a quick shower- bathroom is near sleeping son's bedroom.
Husband comes upstairs and bangs on the bathroom door repeatedly, with his wedding ring hand to make an extra loud sound. 
I was startled and confused, like wtf!? 
He yelled C'MON! 

We were not due to leave for a while and I suspect he was irritated that I got in the shower when he thought I should already be mostly ready. 
He gets pouty when we leave later than we wanted to. I get it. I run late sometimes and he gets frustrated. I was not running late that morning. 
I said to him through the curtain- "That is not a very nice way to be woken up- **** is asleep right there!" 
To which he banged some more. 
S*** like that. It's so stupid and immature. 

Later that night, he said since he drove there, I needed to drive home. 
I said no, I am way too tired. He said he was too, but proceeded to drive home..said nothing else. 

He was acting all weird, swerving and acting over- the- top tired. I said hey, if you need me to, I will drive now.

He said no, no, you don't want to, then shortly after makes comments about how he can barely see straight, etc..

Sooo, either he was legit putting his family in danger which is BAD or he was exaggerating to make a point and to scare me...also BAD.

There are so many other things like this, but that is the most recent.

One more thing recently- during his bday trip recently, he called me a c*** in the hotel room. 
Just us at least, noone around, so I guess I'll give him that. 
Then later claimed he didn't know I hated that word so much and didn't know it would affect me like it did. 

Of course there is plenty good to him too- It just gets so overshadowed by the negative behavior he shows.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I told my H once that if he EVER used the C word at me I would immediately pack up my stuff and leave. That word is hatred. Anyone who pretends it isn't is wrong. I won't stay with someone who shows hatred for me. 

That said, the other stuff sounds just like my husband. All I want is no negativity. And no passive aggressiveness. And no pity parties. 

I went through lots of therapy on this. Tried to get him to go and he went, for a while, but wouldn't do a damn thing the therapist said. Took me 30 years to get him to go and then nothing. So I got mad at the therapist, who'd been my personal IC. She said, 'T, this was never about your H. It's always been about YOU. You can't change him; he has to want to change. All you can control is yourself. Are you ready to start learning how to control what YOU do?'

And basically what she told me was to stop relying on him. If he cusses and gets angry every time we ride somewhere together, I needed to stop riding with him and tell him why. Take two cars. If I didn't want to listen to him making racial accusations at people, I needed to start leaving the room when he does it so he has nobody to say it to. If I wanted to stop being miserable because he won't fix anything around the house, I need to HIRE somebody to fix the things, and tell him why. 

Take back my control. Stop relying on him. Live my life. Stop propping him up, stop making excuses when he acts like an ass to people - let him SEE their disapproval of him. She said once you stop propping him up and kissing up to him, he'll have a choice to make: he can either keep waiting for me to continue propping him up, at which point he'll fall flat on his face, and THEN learn to prop himself up, or he can decide to prop himself up in the first place (she doubted he would do that because I'd been soothing him for 35 years). 

The bottom line here is that YOU have to change. YOU have to leave the room if he gets rude. Leave the HOTEL if he calls you the C word again and go stay someplace else.

He does these things because YOU ALLOW HIM TO. Nothing happens to him when he does it. And, I suspect, it just keeps getting worse and worse because, well, nothing happens to him. 

Only YOU can change that.


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## Annette Tush (May 4, 2016)

Rowan said:


> He does not initiate discussions about tough subjects because those subjects aren't important to him. He's happy with the status quo. You're the one who is unhappy. And, so, he responds in whatever fashion you seem to require to make you stop talking about it. But there is absolutely zero incentive for him to bring it up. In his mind, he's not the one who has the problem, so expecting him to initiate conversations about things that likely don't matter to him may be unrealistic.
> 
> Also, I see that you tried something different this last time. Instead of initiating a conversation - that you are well aware will result in no lasting change - you simply stated your feelings and dropped it. You've de-escalated. In your husband's mind, that means that the issue is less of a problem now. After all, you're making less of a big deal about it, you dropped it. When you finally stop even stating your feelings, he will believe that the issue has stopped being a problem all together. In his mind, if you finally stop talking about the problem it will be because you've finally realized it's not that big a deal, noticed how good you've got it with him, and decided to finally just be happy like him. He will not know that it's because you've finally given up on him. Right now, he's likely just waiting for you to get over whatever you're mad about and go back to being normal, like he has. Experience has taught him that, eventually, you'll stop fussing and get over it. He likely doesn't realize that this new tone is because you're just bone tired of dealing with it, and him, and are finally nearing being done.
> 
> ...


Fantastic response!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Well, you certainly put up with a LOT of passive aggressive and immature bull**** from this man -- pounding on the door, swerving the car, pouting, silent treatment, etc. But being called the C word is just beyond acceptable.

I strongly recommend you get into individual therapy for yourself (not marriage counseling) to learn why you have allowed this jackass of a husband to treat you this way for 24 years.

After the therapy appointment, the lawyer's office would probably be my next stop.


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## Angeline (Aug 25, 2016)

You all are honestly so very helpful, thank you. 
I feel like such an idiot. 

We met very young..(15)
I was super naive and he didn't have any boundaries. I got pregnant, we stayed together, got married and have been hot and cold for as many years as we've been together. 
I am so, so tired of it. Every vacation we go on, I have bad memories of him being a jerk, sprinkled in between the good parts. Is it even possible to just get along well with a man on a regular basis!? 
I know everyone has their disagreements, but ours are for pretty crappy things. 

As I've grown and evolved my awareness of the problem has become so MUCH stronger. Still, I struggle with what action to specifically take to make the most impact on change.

As you know, we are being pretty cold toward each other, only speaking to eachother when necessary..it's been almost 2 weeks like that. 
I haven't even looked at him for days. 
I really don't feel like it. 
So, now what?

What would be a good next step in order to try to figure out this situation? I need suggestions..


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## Angeline (Aug 25, 2016)

I meant *I didn't have boundaries*


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Angeline said:


> I meant *I didn't have boundaries*


It's actually pretty likely that _neither_ of you had, or have, healthy boundaries, healthy self-esteem, healthy coping mechanisms, or healthy communication habits. I say that because in a long-term relationship, it's extremely rare for one partner to be substantially more emotionally healthy, or unhealthy, than the other. Rather, what's usually going on is that one partner's issues support and nurture the other partner's issues. The two are equally unhealthy, just in different ways that allow them to stay together. At least until one partner or the other changes themselves so that the dynamic is no longer supportive of their partner's poor emotional health. 

The thing about partnering up at a young age, is that you don't really know what your issues are, what your partner's are, and what those things actually mean in terms of relationship dynamics. Whatever's going on, you just sort of assume falls into the category of "for better or worse" or that "all couples argue" or that "marriage is hard and you have to work at it". You don't have the experience of a really healthy relationship, so you don't realize how unhealthy yours is. At least, not until you start to grow and mature as an individual. Now, some couples grow and mature _together_ and figure themselves and their dynamic out so that the relationship gets and stays healthy for both of them. But that's not always the case. Sometimes one partner matures and realizes that things aren't as "normal" as their younger self assumed, while the other partner is content to remain in the existing dynamic. And I think that's where you are. You've started to wonder if there's not something better or healthier to life and marriage than this. Your husband is content with the status quo because it works for him. You, as you are - willing to let things go, to fuss from time to time but otherwise not require any actual change from him - works for him. There's is no incentive to change a dynamic that works for him - that fits with, supports, and nurtures, his issues - as your current one does. 

And that's why individual counseling has been suggested to you, OP. You cannot change your husband. What you can do is get emotionally healthy yourself and stop nurturing your husband's issues. You cannot change him. You can change _you_. A good therapist will help you learn what a healthy relationship looks like, and teach you skills to stop being unhealthy yourself. That's going to change your relationship dynamic. Your husband may - may - change in response. Or, he may not. But, even if he doesn't, you will be healthier. And you may just decide that living the rest of your life with a relationship dynamic that works so well for your husband alone, isn't going to work for you.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Your situation is common. By the time the relationship is over, it has a name. Google walk away wife. If that is you, print it out and hand it to him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

turnera said:


> If he cusses and gets angry every time we ride somewhere together, I needed to stop riding with him and tell him why. Take two cars.


Just wanted to update something. Yesterday, Mr T texts me to see if I wanted him to pick me up from work. I was in a bad mood, didn't want to deal with him and all his negativity, so I said no thanks. So then he calls me (to change the answer). He asked why. So I told him the truth: I don't feel up to sitting in the car with you and listening to you b*tch about everyone you dealt with today, listen to you cuss out all the minorities driving and blame the traffic on them, and listen to you use the N word. I'm not in the mood.

He got butt hurt and hung up. And then texted and said he was a few minutes away, so I let him pick me up. I don't think I have EVER been in the car with him with less negativity oozing out of him. Never cussed, never used the N word.

I set a boundary and explained a consequence. So he behaved. And he was nice to me the whole rest of the night.

You should try it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Angeline said:


> What would be a good next step in order to try to figure out this situation? I need suggestions..


Read these books. An important first step; you need knowledge more than anything. 

Next step: find a good counselor and start going BY YOURSELF. You need to build your self esteem back up after 24 years of him belittling you.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/boundaries-in-marriage-henry-cloud/1100018695#/

then

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/why-does-he-do-that-lundy-bancroft/1102335902?ean=9780425191651#/

then 

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/ditch-that-jerk-pamela-jayne/1110895039#/


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> Just wanted to update something. Yesterday, Mr T texts me to see if I wanted him to pick me up from work. I was in a bad mood, didn't want to deal with him and all his negativity, so I said no thanks. So then he calls me (to change the answer). He asked why. So I told him the truth: I don't feel up to sitting in the car with you and listening to you b*tch about everyone you dealt with today, listen to you cuss out all the minorities driving and blame the traffic on them, and listen to you use the N word. I'm not in the mood.
> 
> He got butt hurt and hung up. And then texted and said he was a few minutes away, so I let him pick me up. I don't think I have EVER been in the car with him with less negativity oozing out of him. Never cussed, never used the N word.
> 
> ...



IIRC, you have extenuating circumstances that make remaining married necessary. For me, without those circumstances, I would not choose to be married to someone I had to treat with that degree of parenting. OP, just a thought.


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