# Did you grow up thinking that only having intercourse with another woman was cheating



## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and BJ's are fair game in his eyes!

I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isn't.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and bj's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isnt.



I'm a God fearing man but I'm also a horn dawg HD and I make no excuses for that.

Even lusting over another woman while married is considered adultery and I'm guilty on that a million times over.

Any sex with another woman or man, while married is adultery. Whether its oral sex, BJ, anal, breast job, foot and hand jobs, its all sex with someone else and not your hubby or wife.

If a hubby or wife like more adventurous sex, their other half is to take care of their needs. So if hubby loves BJ's, then his wife gives BJ's. If the wife loves oral to orgasm, then the hubby gives her oral to orgasm. Doesn't matter what it really is.


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and bj's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isnt.


Yes, a lot of guys, and some Presidents, feel that way. 

Make sure you CLEARLY tell him what YOU think, so that he has absolutely no doubt what you consider marriage ending cheating.

I would also very strongly suggest to you that he educate him as to what is an "emotional affair". Most guys do not get it.

If you do not know what an EA is, let us know and we will explain it to you.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and bj's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isnt.



I find the definition of sex to be interesting, particularly if put in different context. For instance, if you were to ask a wife/girlfriend or husband/boyfriend if they had sex with a particular person before they met you, they would tell you "no" if it wasn't intercourse. And I think most everyone would accept that as not sex.

Sex in that context is almost always defined as intercourse.

However, once you get married, the definition of sex becomes considerably broadened. Many things, not just intercourse, are considered sex. It's interesting how the definition gets changed. Either a BJ or HJ is sex or it isn't. Being married or engaged shouldn't change the definition, should it, but it seems to.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and bj's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isnt.


No, he's wrong Susie. It's ridiculous...


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

It's cheating if you have any physical contact in a sexually provocative way. A kiss is cheating. To a certain extent, rubbing someone else's shoulders is on the fence, like, if you were popping a woody and went home and rubbed it out. Well, maybe not that since she may not even know, but like, if she was deeply panting while you were doing it. Or like, maybe if you had her foot, and started licking the toes, maybe while you had your hand in your pants. Or if she started to run your chest with butter and then used some bread to sop it up and ate it, and you went into the bathroom to clean the pipes...yeah, all of that is cheating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

That's ridiculous.

The rule should be "If you wouldn't want anyone else to know what you are doing with another person, it is cheating."


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

He is trying to pull one over on you.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and bj's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isnt.


Nope.

Your husband is full of sh*t and he knows it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## woundedwarrior (Dec 9, 2011)

Cheating is giving any part of yourself to someone other than your spouse. If you need to look for a loophole, then you're cheating.

I once worked with a guy, who every time his wife went out of town on business, he would be drunk in a bar making out with and fondling another woman and insisting "no penetration" so no cheating. No surprise they are divorced now.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> If a hubby or wife like more adventurous sex, their other half is to take care of their needs. So if hubby loves BJ's, then his wife gives BJ's. If the wife loves oral to orgasm, then the hubby gives her oral to orgasm. Doesn't matter what it really is.


Yeah, it kind of does matter what it is. Being married doesn't suddenly mean the other person stops being a person with their own individual tastes, wants, and desires. When you start thinking about sex as something you "give" to someone else, there's already an issue. It's meant to be mutually enjoyable experience. 

You should talk about this before you get married.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Hi Susie, yes these other things are cheating.
Hey guys if a guy goes to a strip club is that considered cheating?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and bj's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isnt.


Then I guess that means if you give another man a BJ, he'll be cool with it. lol


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Thank God that not ALL men think like this. Seriously, I couldn't believe it when my husband said that to me.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

I think my husband already had a EA years ago


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

T&T said:


> No, he's wrong Susie. It's ridiculous...


I totally agree with you!


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> Hi Susie, yes these other things are cheating.
> Hey guys if a guy goes to a strip club is that considered cheating?
> 
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


I believe going to a strip club is cheating if it upsets your wife and you promised her that you wouldn't go. If something upsets your spouse then you should avoid hurting her.

In addition, I work at a Counseling Agency and many of my clients are strippers. Many strippers have been sexually abused as a child, have "daddy issues", on drugs, or need the money to pay rent. Many of my clients who are strippers have depression and anxiety, because of what the men say to them and they are constantly being forced to allow "touching," or they make no money. :frown2: May men do get "extras" at strip clubs. This is very common. :frown2:

So, as you probably guessed... I am against Strip Clubs!


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Then I guess that means if you give another man a BJ, he'll be cool with it. lol


Good one! :grin2:


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

Susie, you need to lay down the law here. Have you done so?

He's playing you...No one can be that dense lol


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Yes but I lived through hell growing up.

I didn't think making out was cheating until my then gf now wife kicked a hole in our TV.

I changed my definition of cheating with her help and a destroyed television of course!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Palodyne (Mar 3, 2016)

My father told me the birds and the bees when I was a young man. Then my mother came in and they told me if I had any questions from either side I could ask. So after that, I was able to ask my mother and my father questions about sex and sexuality. I believe it allowed me to build a more rounded view of what a relationship should look like.

I, as a man, believe that my mate should have my 100% loyalty. All my intimacy should be reserved for her, and hers for me. It's fine to have friends, of course, but when it comes to emotional and sexual needs, that should be reserved for the two of us. That's the way I see it, as a man.


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

I had a bf who thought making out wasn't cheating, surprisingly he felt differentially went I followed suit >


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> I believe going to a strip club is cheating if it upsets your wife and you promised her that you wouldn't go. If something upsets your spouse then you should avoid hurting her.
> 
> In addition, I work at a Counseling Agency and many of my clients are strippers. Many strippers have been sexually abused as a child, have "daddy issues", on drugs, or need the money to pay rent. Many of my clients who are strippers have depression and anxiety, because of what the men say to them and they are constantly being forced to allow "touching," or they make no money. :frown2: May men do get "extras" at strip clubs. This is very common. :frown2:
> 
> So, as you probably guessed... I am against Strip Clubs!


Oh dear, every year my husband goes on a "lads trip" they always go to strip clubs in various European cities. So he's been doing this since the first year we went out 2007, so almost a decade. 

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> I think my husband already had a EA years ago


 He is clearly trying to justify something. 

maybe ask him if he would be ok with you doing things of a sexual nature with another men as long as its not actual intercourse. 

The decent men dont think that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> Oh dear, every year my husband goes on a "lads trip" they always go to strip clubs in various European cities. So he's been doing this since the first year we went out 2007, so almost a decade.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


 wow, really? And you are ok with that?


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@Diana7 he tells me they always go when they're away. I suppose I'm used to it now. It's funny the other wives don't know these trips including my sister in law as my brother goes with the husband. I'm not allowed talk about around the girls if we're all out together. 

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> @Diana7 he tells me they always go when they're away. I suppose I'm used to it now. It's funny the other wives don't know these trips including my sister in law as my brother goes with the husband. I'm not allowed talk about around the girls if we're all out together.
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


Its just not something that either I or my husband would ever do and the fact that they are nearly all deceiving their wives is even worse.
To me faithfulness means not acting that way. :frown2:


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

That's crazy. Of course that's cheating. Only a person that's already cheating would say that.

I'd bet he'd change his tune if you told him you gave some dude a BJ. Try this tonight "Oh honey, I didn't have any money to tip the pizza delivery man, so I gave him a hand job. Is that ok?"


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

@Diana7 they justify it as just looking as some girls dance like it's innocent but I said if it's so innocent why don't the other wives know? 

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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Faithlessness begins at thinking about another woman that way. Realistically, that is going to happen and has to be accepted and forgiven. The question is really what is acceptable in a marriage.

The idea that a hand-job or a blow job is not cheating would be a result of warped upbringing (with apologies to @ConanHub ), but would not last long. Otherwise, it is either self-delusion or lies.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> @Diana7 they justify it as just looking as some girls dance like it's innocent but I said if it's so innocent why don't the other wives know?
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


I agree. However, I went to a strip club while having a girlfriend and the strange thing is the two "horn-dogs" were the least interested in what was happening around us. Both of us bought a lap-dance for someone else, but were not interested in it for ourselves. 

That included buying one for a colleague who appeared to be in an utterly miserable marriage in which he was desperately trying, but you could tell he had not had sex in years. His wife demanded they move from the USA to Columbia and he get an equally high paying job there, which was not possible. After the lap dance, he shone and I confess I consider it one of the kindest things I have ever done. He would never have bought one for himself.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Mostlycontent said:


> I find the definition of sex to be interesting, particularly if put in different context. For instance, if you were to ask a wife/girlfriend or husband/boyfriend if they had sex with a particular person before they met you, they would tell you "no" if it wasn't intercourse. And I think most everyone would accept that as not sex.
> 
> Sex in that context is almost always defined as intercourse.
> 
> However, once you get married, the definition of sex becomes considerably broadened. Many things, not just intercourse, are considered sex. It's interesting how the definition gets changed. Either a BJ or HJ is sex or it isn't. Being married or engaged shouldn't change the definition, should it, but it seems to.


Except, per the OP he didn't say that only intercourse was SEX, he said only intercourse was CHEATING. I would not consider making out to be "sex" - and manual and oral stimulation is a gray area - you can do that and remain a virgin. It's sexUAL but are you lying if you say you did not have sex? I think there's room for debate. But if you are married or in a relationship where you've committed to monogamy, I don't know how anyone could say you did any of that and were not CHEATING on your SO with a straight face.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and BJ's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isn't.


WTH? That is definitely concerning. Tell hubby "So, by your definition you are saying I can make out with other men and that's not cheating on you? Are you sure?"

It sounds like the pure nonsense someone who is cheating, or is getting ready to cheat, might spew. What part of "forsaking all others" confused him?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Doing anything, either of a sexual or a non-sexual nature that is, under normal circumstances, reserved for your spouse or partner, is deemed to be "cheating!"*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Has your husband been living in a cave since he hit puberty??

I think Gus said it correctly. You husband is full of **** and sounds like he has an IQ in single digits to make a statement like that.

Why don't you test him out and ask him if it's OK for you to become a "cam girl", or go give some BJ's since only intercourse is cheating. My guess is you will see Casper The Ghost.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

No. And anybody that says they did is full of $hit in my opinion!

Now I will admit that I never heard of an emotional affair before.
And still question if its as damaging as a physical affair.


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I think the couple defines cheating. There is no universal definition. But the two have to agree.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Really wondering what brought up the question. Abandonment, and withdrawal of affection are also breaking the marital vow.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

chillymorn said:


> No. And anybody that says they did is full of $hit in my opinion!
> 
> Now I will admit that I never heard of an emotional affair before.
> And still question if its as damaging as a physical affair.


I think an emotional affair can be very "damaging" to a marriage, especially if the spouse participating in it is maintaining an emotional connection with their affair partner and *not* their spouse.

But a physical affair - actually having an ongoing affair with sexual contact with someone?- that crosses a line that I don't think I would want to try to come back from with someone.

Same with an emotional affair that is sexual but just not conssumated due to lack of opportunity - like if my spouse was texting I love you and I wish I was with you and not my less appealing spouse... I want to get alone with you and xyz.... Yeah, I'm not ever going to feel secure that my spouse really loves me again. Ever. That's not going to work for me.

The big problem with a purely emotional affair is that it opens the door to fall in love with someone other than your spouse if you're letting someone else than your spouse meet your intimate emotional needs.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Any act with someone other than your spouse that you would not feel comfortable doing in front of spouse or your pastor, IS cheating.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MrsAldi said:


> @Diana7 they justify it as just looking as some girls dance like it's innocent but I said if it's so innocent why don't the other wives know?
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


 Exactly.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and BJ's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among *men*? I hope it isn't.


Nope
Not just men plenty of women have told me the same thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

So lets flip this around.... by his way of thinking you could have a guy on the side and by giving and receiving manual and oral and it would be all good. A) I doubt he would think that was OK and B) if he did he's probably not the husband you want.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and BJ's are fair game in his eyes!


If I were you, I'd start pulling out the old credit card statements and looking for any charges at massage parlors or strip clubs. Any business travel for work? 

You'd be a fool to think he hasn't participated in this activity during your marriage if he really thought it wasn't cheating. Why wouldn't he right? After all, it's not cheating......


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> Susie42 said:
> 
> 
> > I believe going to a strip club is cheating if it upsets your wife and you promised her that you wouldn't go. If something upsets your spouse then you should avoid hurting her.
> ...


FYI, my clients who are strippers told me the management makes them do "extras" like HJ or BJ's to make more money. This usually happens during private lap dances. To me, getting a lap dance is cheating. 90% off the time the men are grabbing the stripper's breasts and butt. It is horrible...


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> Susie42 said:
> 
> 
> > My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and BJ's are fair game in his eyes!
> ...


I did check credit cards and bank statements. With deep sadness and disappointment, i found out that my husband we to many strip clubs behind my back and got lap dances


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

How did this subject come up?? If my spouse said that I'd be very worried.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Susie,

He doesn't believe that. He is flat out lying to you.

And for what it's worth, if he discovered you giving another man a bj, he would consider that cheating.

If he says otherwise it is ONLY because he knows you wouldn't do that.

The real question is whether or not he already has cheated or is planning to.





Susie42 said:


> Thank God that not ALL men think like this. Seriously, I couldn't believe it when my husband said that to me.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

straightshooter said:


> Has your husband been living in a cave since he hit puberty??
> 
> I think Gus said it correctly. You husband is full of **** and sounds like he has an IQ in single digits to make a statement like that.
> 
> Why don't you test him out and ask him if it's OK for you to become a "cam girl", or go give some BJ's since only intercourse is cheating. My guess is you will see Casper The Ghost.


Love it!!! Im going to tell my husband that i want to be a CAM Girl!!! Then im going to tell him that im going to work as a stripper and give lap dances to men to earn extra money. I will also throw in BJ's & HJ's for my high paying customers.

I wonder what he will say to me?


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

You are correct! If i gave another man a BJ my husband would flip!

Im tired of this double standard. I know my husband touched stripper's (breasts/butt). I am no fool! I know what goes on inside strip clubs (many wives have no clue). If they knew what happens during a lap dance, they would forbid their husband going to strip clubs.

If i ever catch my husband going one more time to those places i will file for divorce immediately!


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

Mr The Other said:


> MrsAldi said:
> 
> 
> > @Diana7 they justify it as just looking as some girls dance like it's innocent but I said if it's so innocent why don't the other wives know?
> ...


How long ago did you go to the strip club? Within the past 10 years strip clubs have become legal brothels.
Im curious to find out how much touching was allowed during the lap dance.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Susie42 said:


> How long ago did you go to the strip club? Within the past 10 years strip clubs have become legal brothels.
> Im curious to find out how much touching was allowed during the lap dance.


 @Mr The Other I agree with @Susie42 I'm interested in knowing what goes on in these places. In terms of my husband he's they watch some main show & then one of the other guys would go off into a private area etc. (He's say he's doesn't go as it's too expensive for 5/10 mins) I'm so happy there prices are steep! 

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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

MrsAldi said:


> @Mr The Other I agree with @Susie42 I'm interested in knowing what goes on in these places. In terms of my husband he's they watch some main show & then one of the other guys would go off into a private area etc. (He's say he's doesn't go as it's too expensive for 5/10 mins) I'm so happy there prices are steep!
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


This would have been 2011 in Boston, MA. It was $20 for a lapdance. The staff implied that upstairs was a brothel (perhaps they suspected I had money), but I am informed that is fat from the case, it is just very expensive.

From what I hear, the ones in California and Massachusetts have not become brothels _de facto_ or otherwise, but I am no expert on these things. I have only been to a few and the last was in 2011.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

The private rooms are like brothels according to my clients that are strippers.


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> Susie42 said:
> 
> 
> > How long ago did you go to the strip club? Within the past 10 years strip clubs have become legal brothels.
> ...


Knowing what i know now it is very common to get a HJ or BJ in the private rooms.

I would not let your husband go anymore!


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## Susie42 (Sep 23, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> Susie42 said:
> 
> 
> > How long ago did you go to the strip club? Within the past 10 years strip clubs have become legal brothels.
> ...


Many times with the regular lap dances that cost $20 each, guys get a happy ending in their pants due to the physical friction of the stripper's bottom moving on them!


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Susie42 said:


> Many times with the regular lap dances that cost $20 each, guys get a happy ending in their pants due to the physical friction of the stripper's bottom moving on them!


That might be so.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

WorkingWife said:


> - and manual and oral stimulation is a gray area - you can do that and remain a virgin. It's sexUAL but are you lying if you say you did not have sex? I think there's room for debate.


I agree, somewhat, but I also think we're rather conditioned to only think *penis* in vagina is sex. The idea of someone considering themselves a virgin only because they've never had a penis in their vagina is hard to comprehend, when you really think about it.

Imagine two people, buck naked in bed, oral sex, kissing, touching, etc. The man's on top of the woman, but rather than put his penis inside her, he puts a couple of fingers in. Everything's the same as one would expect from sex, except the only difference is what actually penetrates her. Is she really still a virgin? Or is this the de facto line we've drawn?

If a woman has never had intercourse with a man in her life, but she's had multiple female sex partners, is she considered a virgin?

What if a guy uses one of those penis-extenders and inserts that into the woman's vagina, making sure that his actual penis never enters? What about a strap-on dildo? (not that many men would use one, but just for the sake of this topic).

What if it's "just the tip"?

Basically, we seem to have decided that the only way to lose one's virginity is to have penis-in-vagina sex. Anything else (fingers, dildo, etc.) "doesn't count".

I'm not saying I disagree, I just think it may have to be reconsidered, as it seems rather arbitrary and VERY black and white. Personally, I think that once one has sexual experience, especially ongoing, one is no longer a virgin.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

My thoughts on the topic - cheating is doing something with somebody you wouldn't do in front of your spouse, and/or you know they wouldn't be okay with, or otherwise impacts their ability to give/receive something that is supposed to be shared only with one's partner.

Just like the virginity debate, it's all in how one views things, and it's not black and white.

And whether we admit it or not, there are certainly varying degrees, or levels, of cheating, and we all have our different boundaries of what is forgiveable and what isn't.

For me, personally, if it's something I wouldn't say or do with my wife right next to me, then it's not okay. It's not necessarily "cheating", per se, but it's in the same conversation for sure.

As some of you know, my wife used to be rather flirty with others, early into our relationship. She never crossed lines, from what I saw, however she admittedly liked the attention (don't we all?) and it unfortunately gave some people the wrong message. I wouldn't say she invited it, however she didn't shut it down, either.

She, of course, didn't see things the same way as I did, as is normal. I told her to look at it from my POV, that my (then) girlfriend is acting as though she is available when she's not. How does this make ME look? How does this make HER look? "But I'm not available, don't you trust me? They know I have a boyfriend." "I do trust you, and I know you're not available, but I don't think those guys do." "But it's only flirting." "To you, yes, to them, I'm not so sure. Are YOU sure?"

But more importantly (to this topic here) is that I asked her to think about whether she would be accepting of this type of behaviour if I were standing right next to her. If some dude were to make a comment about her, say, boobs, and I was right there, how do you think I'd react? Would you respond any differently in this case?

So basically, if it's not something you'd say or do with your partner right next to you - don't effin' say or do it. Is it *cheating*? Probably not. Is it okay? Absolutely not.

But then again, the word "cheating" denotes one gets something from somebody that is not their partner, that is otherwise supposed to be something one only gives or receives from said person. If my wife (then girlfriend) was receiving comments that were boosting her ego, making her feel good, or desirable, from people other than myself, is that not cheating me out of the ability to do so?

We all draw our own lines, though, and that's okay. For some people, porn is not okay. Your partner is getting turned on sexually, and getting off to somebody else who isn't you. Strip joints, even if there's no touching or lap dances. That sort of thing. For others, one or both of those is perfectly acceptable. My wife doesn't watch porn, but it wouldn't bother me if she did. She also doesn't go to strip clubs, but that WOULD bother me.

I think the only universal agreement on what IS cheating, is intercourse. Oral or manual sex comes in a close second, but clearly some people don't view that as cheating (sigh). Making out with somebody, slightly below that. And so on, and so forth.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

I have always been taught that sexual contact of any kind is cheating physically, in other words, a PA. I may be wrong about this, but I have always "thought" that kissing without any sexual contact is an emotional affair. It's cheating either way in my book, and is adultery.

Alexm has some valid points, too. Flirting is dangerous, and could be considered a form of cheating. Heck, I'm a natural flirt, but even though I would never take it any further than that, it can still be a source of pain for your spouse. I guess the flirting is a source of validation of being desirable for those that do it, but it can backfire. My flirting backfired on me once, and although I nipped it in the bud with no type of reciprocation, it made me feel guilty because of the unnatural thoughts that went through my head seeing as she was pretty hot. I've since backed away from that type of flirting. Besides, my wife is just as hot to me, not to mention she loves me, and I love her. I never want to hurt her in any way anymore.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

This is getting way too complicated. It's simple. If you are doing ANYTHING physical that is based on the intent of being sexual with anyone BUT your spouse, you are cheating. If you go to a strip club to see boobs, that isn't cheating. It's tacky and kinda lame, but not cheating. A lap dance IS cheating. There is interaction with you and someone else all for the intent of giving you a stiffy. How is this even debatable...?

Now, are all cheats the same? No, clearly. Should your wife leave you if you went to a strip club once and got a lap dance? Maybe, maybe not. But know that you physically cheated on your wife, there is no other way around it. Emotional affairs are a little different and possibly more subjective. If you are anticipating talking to someone else because it tickles your fancy, then you are likely cheating. If you are thinking about them when you aren't talking to them, then that's an indicator too.

I just want to say, this is more about self diagnosis. If scientists could connect wires to your brain and extract this data, then, sure, it would be something other people can determine. But since you are only in your own head, and if you were to stop and think..."Am I in an emotional affair?", well, I think you can determine that by these basic standards.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

alexm said:


> I agree, somewhat, but I also think we're rather conditioned to only think *penis* in vagina is sex. The idea of someone considering themselves a virgin only because they've never had a penis in their vagina is hard to comprehend, when you really think about it.
> 
> Imagine two people, buck naked in bed, oral sex, kissing, touching, etc. The man's on top of the woman, but rather than put his penis inside her, he puts a couple of fingers in. Everything's the same as one would expect from sex, except the only difference is what actually penetrates her. Is she really still a virgin? Or is this the de facto line we've drawn?
> 
> ...


Hmmmm - interesting questions!

I see what you're saying but I think the reason "virginity" has been held as so important going back centuries is because penis in vagina is how women get pregnant, and historically, a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock was in a major pickle and her child was at a great disadvantage. 

In my mind, that's what would makes sex outside of marriage "immoral." The "virtue" is attached to women's "virginity" and "disgrace" attached to sleeping around to strongly discourage people from doing that which they are strongly driven to do but which might end so very badly.

All the other sexual things - don't get you pregnant and don't have the potential to result in such negative consequences - though you can get STDs through oral sex and things being in close proximity so there's some room for negative consequences. Just not a consequence that affects a child you can't very well take care of.

So, IMO you're still a virgin. Although if you've been penetrated by something the size of a penis or larger, you're hymen won't still be intact so then are you still a virgin? Wow, I don't flipping know!

Regardless -- it's ALL *cheating* if you're in a committed relationship with someone else!


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## I Don't Know (Oct 8, 2013)

My wife and I had a conversation last week about this. She asked me if flirting is cheating. I said, "No. It's inappropriate and it's being unfaithful and it could get to a level that would be very close to cheating." She said, "so you'd be ok if I flirted with some guy." "No, I said it's inappropriate. But to me cheating is a thing I would divorce over. No questions asked. If you flirted with someone once, I would be highly P!ssed, but I wouldn't divorce over it. If it was an ongoing thing or if it was overtly sexual flirting then it would be at that level of near cheating."

She still thinks flirting is cheating. I don't intend to be flirting around and the fact that she thinks it's cheating tells me she wouldn't do so it either. And that's fine by me.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

WorkingWife said:


> Hmmmm - interesting questions!
> 
> I see what you're saying but I think the reason "virginity" has been held as so important going back centuries is because penis in vagina is how women get pregnant, and historically, a woman who gets pregnant out of wedlock was in a major pickle and her child was at a great disadvantage.
> 
> ...


You may be a virgin if you've done everything but PIV, but you're hardly virginal!

Funny, I remember my ex wife (whom I met at 18, and she was just 17) telling me she had only been with 3 guys. 2 of them were only once each or something, and the other was over the course of a couple of months. She probably had sex a total of 20 times before she met me - so she felt she was inexperienced. Then she proceeded to tell me that she had "fooled around" with 5 or 6 more, including oral sex - basically everything but PIV.

Inexperienced, my a$$! 8 or 9 guys isn't "inexperienced" 

It's all in the eye of the beholder!

Reminds me of an article I read not too long ago, where they polled a number of high school girls about sex. An alarmingly high number of them considered themselves virgins, if "all" they did was oral and anal. ANAL! And even sadder, a small % of them didn't even consider anal sex to be sex at all, never mind the virginity part.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

I Don't Know said:


> She still thinks flirting is cheating. I don't intend to be flirting around and the fact that she thinks it's cheating tells me she wouldn't do so it either. And that's fine by me.


So that raises the question - what does she consider flirting? "flirting" is pretty subjective. Some thing are obvious - like "Damn woman, you've got quite the rack!" but some things are very subtle. Where you are, how you say it, how much time you spend talking to a member of the opposite sex - what is flirting? If my H and I get together with other couples and someone tells a dirty joke, are they flirting? If they say I look nice, are they flirting? If they laugh at my joke, are they flirting? 

If you're saying something suggestive to a member of the opposite sex hoping it will get you somewhere and ready to act on it if it does, then I can see your wife's point. But we have plenty of friends where one of them, usually the guy, is always "Hey Baby, you're looking great!" to every single woman. I think it's "flirting" but they've never given off any "I'd screw around on my wife" vibes. I certainly would not consider that anything close to cheating. Or even inappropriate if it's all in mixed company right in front of our spouses.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

alexm said:


> You may be a virgin if you've done everything but PIV, but you're hardly virginal!
> 
> Funny, I remember my ex wife (whom I met at 18, and she was just 17) telling me she had only been with 3 guys. 2 of them were only once each or something, and the other was over the course of a couple of months. She probably had sex a total of 20 times before she met me - so she felt she was inexperienced. Then she proceeded to tell me that she had "fooled around" with 5 or 6 more, including oral sex - basically everything but PIV.
> 
> ...


Maybe contributed to the "ex" part?:surprise:

Never understood that thought process.

So I could have ate 100 women out, 100 anal, received 100 Bjs, 100 handjobs, fingered 100 women, and still tell a prospective mate Im a virgin? Uh no.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

MrsAldi said:


> @Mr The Other I agree with @Susie42 I'm interested in knowing what goes on in these places. In terms of my husband he's they watch some main show & then one of the other guys would go off into a private area etc. (He's say he's doesn't go as it's too expensive for 5/10 mins) I'm so happy there prices are steep!
> 
> Sent from my B1-730HD using Tapatalk


I have not been to one in a few years. But last I knew, THEY were allowed to touch YOU. You are not allowed to touch them though they bend the rules for females. Males who attempt to touch a dancer are bounced immediately. But this was a nice place... not sure if other places are different.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Anything sexual, including kissing, is cheating. Anyone with common sense would know that. Now, it wasn't until after I was married that the concept of online cheating was invented, so I was not familiar with the notion of "emotional affairs" until much later. I'm sure such affairs existed pre-internet and pre smart phones, but I had never heard of it.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Agree.

If you would not want your partner doing something with someone else it's pretty much common sense.

If I saw my wife/gf holding hands with another guy that would be enough.... 




TX-SC said:


> Anything sexual, including kissing, is cheating. Anyone with common sense would know that. Now, it wasn't until after I was married that the concept of online cheating was invented, so I was not familiar with the notion of "emotional affairs" until much later. I'm sure such affairs existed pre-internet and pre smart phones, but I had never heard of it.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Susie42 said:


> My husband told me that he thought only having intercourse with another woman is cheating. I guess hand jobs and BJ's are fair game in his eyes!
> 
> I was mortified that he even thought this way. Is this a common thought among men? I hope it isn't.


I certainly don't agree with your husband. Any of that is cheating.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Susie42 said:


> I think my husband already had a EA years ago


*IMHO, whether you go willingly off of the diving board for PIV, perform cunillingus or fellatio, or even giving or receiving anal with another person, albeit heterosexual or homosexual ~ for the very first time in your life ~ simply put, then that act is how you came to lose your virginity!

Pretty simple logic!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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