# My Perpetual Journey



## LookingForTruth (Jun 6, 2012)

DXG posted this, to me I think, in another thread:

“Wow, looking I feel so sorry for you why do you stay?”

In a nutshell, I can be incredibly empathetic and forgiving, sometimes to a fault. Still trying to figure out if my H is playing me or if he is being genuine, when he does communicate with me in a transparent way. Even though the transparency has been infrequent, when it happens, it gives me just enough hope to stay. Ours is a very complicated story that involves many different types of ways my H has betrayed me, but it also involves alot of past trauma in my H's life (of unbelievable proportions, and I am not exaggerating). When he talks about his past trauma at a very gut level, and makes himself vulnerable to me like that, that's when my empathy kicks in. Maybe I am a fool, but I cannot walk away from someone who has been through what he has been through (unless he keeps putting me through what he already has in the past). But, I also think he knows that, and he convincingly plays that card when the chips are really down between us.

We have been together for 5-1/2 years and married for 2 years (we just celebrated our 2nd anniversary June 9). We have no children together, though we both have kids from our first marriages. We have been on the brink of separation headed towards a permanent break-up multiple times over. Just when the end is looming near, he steps up to the plate and starts doing what’s necessary, or just enough to keep me around.

I think that I too often put him in front of myself. In an effort to try to keep the peace and make things work, I make too many excuses for him. Ultimately, I also end up doing all the necessary work to keep us together. Any relationship work he does is sporadic. We don’t talk much anymore, but when we still did, most of the talking was done by me. H is just one of those non-communicative people. Which is fine, except when there are issues that need to be talked about, it doesn’t happen in the way it should.

I have been dealing with a lot of issues from his end, ranging from s*x addiction, to personality disorders (how else could I explain Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?), to him breaking the law, repeatedly, even after I’ve caught him. He is sneaky, deceptive, and highly skilled at leading a double life. Most of his indiscretions happen during his work day, when he is 40 minutes away, and it would not be so easy for me to catch him at anything. But, I am good at finding the evidence later. Some of my friends have told me I should become a private detective. My gut is often very good at telling me when something is amiss. When I go in search of answers, I often find them. Asking my H, who is either a compulsive liar or a pathological one, to tell me the truth, will not produce the truth, unless I have hard, concrete evidence that he cannot dispute, and I’ve cornered him with it. Some evidence I’ve discovered quite by accident; some I’ve had to go in search of. None of it was offered to me by him.

I have no concrete proof of an affair, but all the circumstantial evidence points to one or more. The big question is, were they/are they EAs or PAs. It doesn’t really matter too much at this point. To me, an affair is an affair, no matter how far it went. I suppose a PA would hurt far more, though. My H has refused to admit to anything, in terms of any affairs. That does not mean they did not happen.

He has lied, either outright to my face, or through omission (the latter being his specialty), about anything and everything, ranging from the broken kitchen glass; to the secret friendship with a former co-worker who just happens to be female; to the woman he shared office space with; to his FanBox account; to his secret stash of ED pills; to how much cash he keeps hidden in his drawer; to how much of that cash he spends, when, and on what; to his expensive coin collection; to his porn use; to how the strong smell of perfume got on his shirt collar (I don’t wear it, b/c I’m allergic); to the female FB friend; to the female he was PMing, until she forwarded me the messages, b/c she felt I had a right to know what my H was telling her, that he should only have been telling me; and then some. Women feed his ego, so anytime one comes along, or, he goes in search of supply himself, he latches on, for as long as he is able to get away with that without me knowing.

Though he hasn’t done it in awhile, he used to frequently gaslight. I could literally witness him doing something, but he would stand there and deny doing what I had just seen him do. For a time, I think I started to literally go insane. I had lost my ability to figure out what was real and what wasn’t. Literally. It took a lot of work, but I now trust myself again, as well as what I know I just saw.

I saw this in another thread, and it nicely describes my H to a T (written by Turnera in Poppy’s thread “Urgent”):

“Please remember that abusers and controllers AND NPDers are the best manipulators on the planet. That is how they get what they want. And they excel at making each person believe what they want that person to believe. He has her thinking that he is Mr Wonderful. She fell for it; she's only human.”

This is my problem, too. I am only human, and I keep falling for what my H feeds me. He can be incredibly affectionate, attentive, etc. But I can’t take all the past lies he has told me, whether he has already confessed those to me or not. Of course, the worst are the ones I already know about, that he doesn’t think I’m aware of; and, the ones I don’t know anything about, period.

I swing between feeling as if the lies and deceit have stopped, which in turn causes me to cave to him; and feeling stupid for thinking that could ever be true. Some days, I am ready to check myself in to the psych ward, or at the very least, an outpatient day program. Some days, I have a terrible time trying to cope, and it’s all I can do to function. I haven’t been very motivated.

Other days, I am strong, and I know exactly what I need to do. Until my H gets to me. Then it all falls to pieces again. I inevitably remain stuck, in so many different ways. I know I need to move on from him and become independent again, like I was before I met him. But it’s so hard to do, after you’ve been dealing with a user, an abuser, a master manipulator, and a controller.

But b/c he puts on such a good show, I’ve got some people telling me, “But that’s your head talking to you. Listen to what your heart is telling you for a change.” My head tells me to get out and never look back. My heart tells me to stay. I’ve got people in my ear minimizing the bad things he’s done, b/c I don’t think they can handle the thought, and all they want to focus on is the good things he’s done. Then they get me doing the same.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry you have so much to deal with.
You posted, so I'm going to offer my 2 cents. Based on what you describe, your H has become a wonderful manipulator, of both you and the other women in his life that you know "feed his ego."
I can only imagine the horrible past your H must have had to endure. That,however, is not an excuse for his conduct, but at most an explanation of why he made the choices he did. Whether or not you want to live with that is only your decision. But it clearly sounds as though you are permitting him to continue to manipulate your emotions. Do you want to continue to live with a man you cannot trust with your emotions or your money? Do you want to be with a man who is apparently continuing with EA (at the least).
Only you can stop, and I think you are stronger than you know.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

This was a long post, and I need to read it over again before answering carefully, but I will tell you this right now:

Do what your heart tells you. Or what your head tells you. But not what people on internet boards tell you.

We can offer advice, we can offer alternate perspectives, but at the end of the day, your choices are yours and yours alone.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Why would you even want to be with a man like that?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Do what your heart tells you. Or what your head tells you. But not what people on internet boards tell you.
> .


But you're on the internet! So if we don't listen to you then we will end up listening to people on the internet, which means we shouldn't listen to you! Oh crap it's a paradox!!


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

AR, I pride myself on my paradoxes!

Paradoxi?

Well, damn.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Why would you even want to be with a man like that?


If I were to venture a guess after a quick scan, Codependance and low self-esteem. Her Husband obviously has a acute narcissitic personailty disorder amongst other things. The Narcissitic & Co-Dependant are drawn to one another. I'd bet she can't picture not being with him and is terrified of that prospect.


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## LookingForTruth (Jun 6, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Why would you even want to be with a man like that?


Ah, that is the question of the century. But why do any of us who have stayed stay? I can look at anyone else's sob story and think the same thing. At the same time, I understand it, b/c I am still here too. How much of it has to do with love, and how much of it has to do with The Stockholm Syndrome? Anyway, these kinds of people are very good at saying and doing just the right thing, in just the right moment, to get their victim to hang around. They "hoover" (like the vacuum) - they have a way of sucking you back in again. When they do, they are on their best behavior, and what was once hell turns to heaven. They toss you a few bones, and you gobble them up, and it is just enough to give you hope that maybe this time, the promises and efforts to change will be real, just like they say.

I know that I need to once again move from being a victim to being a survivor, and then, learning how to thrive again.

One of the problems is that it isn't altogether different from the environment in which I grew up. My Mother (now deceased) is very much like him. Except she was generally overt, and he is generally covert. But I learned how to exist in an abusive environment. I learned how to survive. It is what became familiar to me. So even though I didn't catch on to alot of the abuse that was going on (b/c it was different from my Mother's, and so, it took me some time to recognize it), there were still subconscious elements that were familiar to me.

Mr. Hyde hasn't been around for 6 months now. So that gives me hope that perhaps my H can really change (so long as Mr. Hyde never comes back). My H has stated that he is actively working on making sure that Mr. Hyde never comes back. Since Mr. Hyde's initial surgence, this is the longest he's ever been absent.

But this is what gets in the way: there are lies of which I'm aware, that H has never come clean on. I know there are lies of which I'm not aware, too. The question becomes will my H finally stop chasing his dragons and finally come clean to me, after which point there is nothing more to come clean about?

I guess my point is that I have seen some change. I just haven't seen enough change. I am trying to figure out if more change is going to happen or not. If my H is just telling me what he thinks I want to hear, without really meaning it.


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## LookingForTruth (Jun 6, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> If I were to venture a guess after a quick scan, Codependance and low self-esteem. Her Husband obviously has a acute narcissitic personailty disorder amongst other things. The Narcissitic & Co-Dependant are drawn to one another. I'd bet she can't picture not being with him and is terrified of that prospect.


Oh, I'm sure I'm co-dependent, but from what I've read, most married people are, to some degree. You come to rely on one another for certain things. Your lives are intertwined in so many different ways. I have to assume there are healthy levels of codependency and unhealthy levels. I realize that the codependency I currently exhibit is unhealthy.

In the past, I never felt terrified of not being with someone. For some reason, when it comes to him, I do. This is something new to me.

For as much as we do together, I go out and do alot of things without him. So I'm not codependent in that respect. But when I think about trying to run the household alone and the finances, that's when I get scared. It seems to be more from a practical standpoint, than an emotional one.

My self-esteem is much better than it was for the past few years. But the part I can't figure out is why my whole life it was very good, until I met my H. I was independent and confident my whole life. Why did it disappear after I met him?

My teenage son's father ran on me, and that did not affect my self-esteem that much. I bounced back from him rather quickly, after kicking him out, and I was pregnant at the time. I raised my son alone, without his father being around at all.

Why could I handle that in the right way, but not what has gone down with my H? In hindsight, my teenage son's father was a s*x addict too, and in some ways, worse than my H has been.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

LookingForTruth said:


> Ah, that is the question of the century. But why do any of us who have stayed stay?


The difference is that the people who stay who have transparency, remorse and who clearly see a change in behaviour, actually have a chance at a better marriage. They are not staying simply because they love their spouse. The conditions for R have to be met or you're just asking for more pain and drama down the road.


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## Poppy (Mar 14, 2012)

I just felt like I was reading about myself. My initial reaction is to tell you to run for your life as you have no kids. If I were in your position I know that the best way for me to heal would be to start again somewhere else....like Timbuktu ...and never have to set eyes on him again or care where he is or what he is doing. If I never had to see him I could get over him, but I have two children with him. Hmmm...please feel free to pm me if you like. Are you in ic? It also sounds like you are depressed if you are losing interest in life and activities. Don't let it devour you..seek professional help. I have been on a low dose of antidepressant for nearly 4 months but feel I need it adjusted because I too am losing the incentive to do things again and have been for a few weeks now. Seratonin becomes depleted and needs to be replaced like a vitamin deficiency. You are under tremendous anxiety and stress. Please look after yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

Does he ever use the silent treatment on you? If so....

I understand your plight. I don't think my H has full blown NPD but he has the tendencies, for sure. Yours sounds like he is struggling also. You probably have CD tendencies as well. But who cares, really, at this point? It makes no difference in what needs to be done here.

Put papers on the table. 

You might get somewhere if you do. You'll get nowhere if you don't.

Sorry your H is disrespecting you. Please keep posting and take care of yourself.


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## LookingForTruth (Jun 6, 2012)

Thank you all for your replies. Poppy, like you, I have been in CBT since September. I am thinking of finding a new therapist, b/c it isn’t really helping me. I think it is the therapist, not the approach, though I’m not entirely sure. There are too many emotional components to what I’ve been through, that need to be worked through. CBT is not giving me the opportunity to do that. The emotional components have been placed on the backburner, to be dealt with later. But in the process, I have not gotten any validation, yet that is what I feel I need. And in the process, the pain has just piled up regardless. I can’t deal with it later. I need to deal with it now.

I did much better with a former IC who used a spiritual approach with me, as far as feeling as if I was healing myself as an individual. She routinely validated what I was feeling, as a result of what I was going through. But I stopped going to her, b/c she felt part of my purpose in this life is to help my H. I was trying to figure out how to leave him; she was encouraging me to stay. She felt we were meant to be with one another. She finally told me she wasn’t so sure she could help me, and that maybe she was not the right therapist for me. I didn’t know if I was stuck b/c of me or b/c of her.

I also did better when my H and I were seeing an MC (more specifically, a CSAT who was helping my H heal, as well as our marriage; at the same time, I was seeing my current IC). However, that didn’t work, b/c I always came away feeling validated, but my H always came away feeling beat up and outnumbered.

LWC, my H used to routinely give me the silent treatment, though not anymore. He still has issues with avoidance, though. He won’t initiate conversations about things; that is always left for me to do. But at least if I ask him a question, he will now answer. In the past, he would refuse. If I start a conversation, he will now usually respond in some way, though he rarely fully responds in a way that makes me feel satisfied. I usually feel like there is more he should be saying – more that needs to be said.

There has been some improvement, but there is still room for more improvement. Sometimes I am now more shutdown than he is. I am afraid to trust him, and I am afraid to trust the process, too. I often hold back. He seems to be trying to R, but I am not always so open and receptive to that. I also get tired of being the only one who initiates talks.

I was feeling more open to R, until he ignored an email I sent him last week. He only finished reading it after I brought it up, out of obligation. It hurt me that he did not make what I had to say a priority, and instead, basically blew it off, as if it wasn’t important enough to tend to. As if it wasn’t worthy of a response. I knew that it was. But I still felt slighted. It didn’t help much that he finally read it and then verbally responded.

I ebb and flow between loving him and hating him. I ebb and flow between wanting to be near him and wanting to get away from him. I still sleep on the couch some nights. I ebb and flow between wanting to leave and wanting to stay. I have been on the fence about this for the past month maybe. Prior to that, that's it, I was done, and I was leaving, even though he had already started on his best behavior.

What changed? I sent him that email, reaching out to him for some reason. I was trying to have a relationship with him again. It is easier to stay in that mindset of leaving when I stay detached. I allowed myself to re-attach again on some level, and that is what did me in, despite the fact he initially ignored my email.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

No kids?

Their arse would be out the door....


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

When you love Dr. Jekyll, but endure Mr Hyde, it's hard to know when to call it quits. You keep hoping he will stay Dr. Jekyll, but each time, he becomes Mr. Hyde and you feel hurt. At some point, you have to decide whether the good times outweigh the bad, whether the bad becomes intolerable, and whether this back and forth you're doing with him actually serves your own interests and goals in the end.

I'm a bit like you. My stbxh is a bit like yours. I understand what you're going through, and it's hard to figure out where to draw the line sometimes. I think that maybe you're so engrossed in his games that you aren't seeing beyond them, you aren't seeing whether the games are worthwhile in the first place at all. You need some space to clear your head and figure yourself out away from him. Work on your co-dependence issues. Work on acknowledging the things that are unacceptable to you. Make a list of what is acceptable to you and what is intolerable and keep track of how often his behavior and treatment of you falls into the latter category. Clearly define your own goals and interests and chart your progress in a visible way; when you are gaslighted, derailed, and flummoxed by way of Mr. Hyde, pause and think about whether complying with the game is in the service of your goals in life and keep track of these things. Only by training yourself to see objectively will you be able to get out of the box in which you can do nothing but play the game whether you want to play it or not; step outside the box and observe the game for a while.


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