# Utterly lost and bewildered..



## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

Many years ago, before I knew her, my wife was engaged but the engagement was broken off because she cheated on her fiance with a man from the school she taught at - the gym teacher. She had a lengthy affair with him.

We've been together 4 years, married for 3. 

She no longer works at the school, but in October of last year, I discovered that she had been in email contact with this same man. I confronted her, and she insisted it was just a stupid decision and it was a bunch of emails, that's all.

At the beginning of May, I discovered an email exchange between them that had been written in March. It was something like:

Her: "How's it going - I have the entire March break open - when do you get back?"
Him: "I'm in Florida with the kids, but I'll be back next week"
Her: "Great! When you get back we'll celebrate! xo"

So I confronted her, and she looked like a deer in headlights... then she explained that she was sorry.. she thought she had deleted those and she was just being flirty and new it was wrong. The skillful way with which she then reached across me, deleted the email, and cleared the trash, was concerning. But something in needed to keep digging. I then found some browser cache items. One thing that she forgot is that I'm a computer expert, and when I set my mind on things, I will get everything I am looking for. If it's on the hard drive, deleted or not, I can get it. 

So I found a cached Facebook page that had a conversation between them, in which she said "I just looked again at your picture. mmmmm.. yum! T&T say hi!" - I asked her what does that mean? What's T&T? She explained it was nothing -- I pushed.. she admitted that it was a reference to her breasts.

So I had to keep digging. I then had the funny suspicion that there was something on her iPhone, because she spent an inordinate amount of time texting.. I had always assumed it was her friend Agnes, because these texts would come through as "Aggie", but then I noticed another number called "Aggie Cell".. so I was perplexed as to why Aggie had two entries. I looked at the phone number, and didn't recognize the "Aggie" number.. the other number I knew was Agnes's. I looked up the number online, and it resolved to his name. And looking at the texts - I realized there were surprisingly few.. and cryptically they were only half conversations.. nothing meaningful.. just a 

"Yep.. I know"
"Uh huh, that's for sure"
"No, he didn't"

etc..

The missing texts meant that things had been deleted, and I was concerned as to why exactly she would be deleting texts. So, knowing what I know about computers I found a way to recover deleted texts. Through the iPhone backup/sync in iTunes. So I started reading her conversations to "Aggie".. 

And they started last July. (Whatever says "Read" is from him, and "Sent" is from her)
Read 7/15/11 10:30 AM
Thanks babe....going nuts but Yee ha
Read 7/15/11 10:34 AM
Ohh those pics do!
Read 7/15/11 10:41 AM
130 or so....then off to see kids perform at music camp!
Sent 7/15/11 10:42 AM
Omg so cute!!!! Where's the camp?

so I thought, wow, that's interesting.. and realized there were hundreds and hundreds of texts.. I kept going, and started to feel really uncomfortable:
Read 7/15/11 10:46 AM
Just looked at your pic again
Sent 7/27/11 9:41 AM
Can I call?

Ughh.... :
Read 7/28/11 1:25 PM
Just a we bit....mount away
Sent 7/28/11 1:26 PM
I am in my head. It's nice.
Read 7/28/11 1:27 PM
Your doing what to my head?

Read 8/7/11 10:09 AM
Morning beautiful 
Sent 8/7/11 10:11 AM
Home alone this morning?
Read 8/7/11 10:12 AM
I will be soon

Then my world collapsed:
Sent 8/8/11 3:03 PM
Can u sneak out now for a quickie?
Read 8/8/11 3:12 PM
I can in maybe a half hour

Read 8/8/11 4:59 PM
Love it. Might get convertible on Wednesday 
Sent 8/8/11 4:59 PM
No!! Hubby's birthday.
Read 8/8/11 5:05 PM
do BOTH THEN!
Sent 8/8/11 5:05 PM
Yes yes yes!!!
Sent 8/8/11 5:05 PM
In my meeting. I feel naughty, and like it! Hehe.

Her birthday is Dec 30th.. This was the exchange on Dec 26:
Sent 12/26/11 1:41 PM
FYI Hubby's out every night this week.
Read 12/26/11 1:47 PM
We are banging hard then!
Read 12/26/11 1:49 PM
Ahhhh no bday bang?!
Sent 12/26/11 1:49 PM
Oh yes please! During the day!
Read 12/26/11 1:51 PM
See if I can swing it...my **** I mean

She wanted it during the day because I was going to be having a romantic evening with her. I was just horrified to read of this, on the 27th - they went to a school parking lot:
Sent 12/27/11 6:03 PM
I can leave in 2.
Sent 12/27/11 6:05 PM
Ready to go. You say the word.
Sent 12/27/11 6:07 PM
Ok. Cya soon.
Sent 12/27/11 6:11 PM
Holy snow!!!
Sent 12/27/11 6:13 PM
5 mins
Sent 12/27/11 6:17 PM
Here
Read 12/27/11 6:17 PM
K awesome
Sent 12/27/11 6:28 PM
An that's what we call wham bam.
Read 12/27/11 6:29 PM
Thank you mam
Read 12/27/11 6:29 PM
That was amazing...u freaking. Rock!
Sent 12/27/11 6:29 PM
Ur welcome sir. 
Sent 12/27/11 6:31 PM
That was hot steaming up the car.

And from the very next day, I discovered that he'd been at our house while I was working:
Read 12/29/11 5:39 PM
Awesome on road to your house now..I am moving fast 
Read 12/29/11 5:41 PM
**** we are good 
Read 12/29/11 5:43 PM
I am going to give u extra nibbles now 
Sent 12/29/11 5:43 PM
Sweet!!
Read 12/29/11 7:26 PM
My turn
Sent 12/29/11 7:48 PM
Discretely smell your fingers and grin....
Read 12/29/11 7:53 PM
Did twice dkready

The last apparent interaction between them was April 17th. Now as you can imagine, reading those texts was like reading a horror story... I couldn't stop.. but it was literally killing me.

So I confronted her.. and she admitted that she'd been seeing him since July, and when I confronted her in October, she just told herself she had to be more careful.. but of course, I didn't fully know what was going on then anyway. I trusted her. 

To make matters worse.. I discovered texts and phonecalls to another number.. and it contained things like Him:"So you're a piano teacher? You must be good with your hands?" Her: "I am. I'm also very good with my mouth".. It turns out this was someone she met on ****** ******* - once I discovered that she'd installed the ****** ******* app on her phone. She says she never actually got together with him - he lives several cities away. 

Then I discovered she'd gone out one night while I was in hospital (I was in hospital for a month in February), and met up with an old student of hers for a drink. She's 30, he's 22. She taught him when she was still teaching at that high school. Some of their texts were oddly explicit. And she admitted that when they were out, afterwards they went into the car together... and fooled around. "Did you have sex?" I asked her, "Possibly.. we were drunk".

Yesterday, I discovered some more texts from last September - to another "friend" of ours... specifically he asks, "Did you check out the fetlife.com?" - I looked it up... it's a fetish sex site... and another few days later, asked her "I have a couple from work who are looking for a lady to join them, you in?" 

I'm numb. She's had sex 46 more times in the last year than I have. She's begging me not to leave her. She's started going to therapy because she can't understand how she did that. She says it doesn't seem real.. like a split personality. She says she can't justify it - she was just totally detached from reality.. She's horrified when she reads some of the stuff she wrote.. 

I'm overwhelmed.. and don't know what to do. I don't want it to be true.. but to have read everything I read - it was like I got to relive the entire affair like a fly on the wall.. but helpless to stop it.

Help.


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## DanF (Sep 27, 2010)

She is a serial cheater and has been doing it since before you even met her.
I doubt that she will change.
Sorry to post this, but you need to get out and get out now.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Wow. You certainly don't need any more evidence.

She sounds like someone with very poor impulse control. I can't imagine she'd ever be able to control herself.

I would kick her to the curb and go from there. If after a few months she's in therapy and completely transparent and willing to grovel at your feet, I might consider thinking about reconciliation.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Divorce her yesterday. Sorry you're here.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

This can't be real !! 

Just in case it is, she is one lucky lady to be married to you because from the sounds of it you'll just forgive her. I can absolutely guarantee you that if your were a woman and your husband was writing this crap you would be out on your Azz pronto. Women shoot first and ask questions later and that's the way it should be. At least the ones I know.


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## KanDo (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry you are here. I wish I could make this all disappear, but I can't. Your wife is a deceitful liar with no respect for you and your marriage. I recommend you get out while you can. You don't deserve this and there are incredible women out there looking for a great guy like you. Start over. Begin working on yourself.

Been there, done that, have the t-shirt.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"Hey! My husband's sick! In fact, he's in hospital!Lets have sex!"

That is so sick, so inappropriate that words fail me. 

You probably require deep counselling to get over the harm she has done to you. Oh! And do get checked for STDs.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm all for trying R

But not in cases like yours

Young marriage, only 3 years
No kids
Serial cheater

You're young go be happy and with someone who deserves you


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Oh! And fo get checked for STDs.


Yes - get checked ASAP. For everything. God only knows what she may have picked up


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Btw expose OM to his wife


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## crazyconfused (Nov 23, 2011)

You know I read a lot of posts, but don't comment much. I just have to say something. The thing that sticks out the most there... Her saying she just need to be more careful when you confronted earlier. That is an unrepentant leeching disgusting human being. Run far and fast and don't look back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You know exactly what to do.

Divorce her sleepy cheating but. She is a total tramp who thinks you are a looser and a fool.

She isn't just having an affair, she s hooking up for group sex on fetish sites, she's the town tramp banging anything that moves.

My god be glad you havent had sex with her, you'd be carrying some nasty STDs and possibly HIV.

Exposé to the wives of these guys that they've been banging a tramp and they need to get tested for STDs ASAP.

The truth is you only found out what she's been doing in the recent ast, she has likely been doing this your entire relationship. Using you , while sleeping with anyone who smiles

There really isn't any point in listening to her, you now know she is an easy tramp. Even prostitutes have better values than here. Why would anyone want to be with her?

You should burn your bed , you know she's had him and likely other men in there using your pillow, etc. I don't know how you could sleep in it again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, and post him and her both on cheaterville.com
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

She's a serial cheater, you should've never married her after what she did to her ex fiance



crazyconfused said:


> You know I read a lot of posts, but don't comment much. I just have to say something. The thing that sticks out the most there... Her saying she just need to be more careful when you confronted earlier. That is an unrepentant leeching disgusting human being. Run far and fast and don't look back
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

Thank you all for your thoughts.. The therapist is saying that it's akin to an addiction, for which she needs help... that it wasn't about cheating, but about an insatiable need to be praised, which she didn't know how to get (she could have asked....) so she chose the most despicable coping mechanism..

But I've pointed things out to her (old emails from me to her, texts, etc) that show how often I tried to reach out to her, to bring her back because she was so distant.. She says "I'm so utterly sorry.. I didn't even see those outreaches.. My eyes were completely closed, I had no concept of consequence, or right or wrong" - which is what leads the therapist to say it's genuinely an addiction, for which she needs treatment...

My trust is, however - a very, very, very abused thing. I fail to see how I'll ever get it back...


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Don't be fooled by the therapy card. She knew she was doing it, and she knows how to lie and play the game. If you keep looking you'll find she has been cheating on you for the entire 4 years. She likely married you because she saw you as a good paycheck.

Dud you ever get to experience any of her porn star moves? Likely not, she reserved those for the other men and women. You got the little bit she had to share. Btw, now you have to wonder how many times you had sex with her right after another man, think back to all those times she was already worked up or flushed.

Just like last time you confined her, she is now playing the game of being shocked and in therapy. Don't be the fool again and fall for her manipulation, when you feel like being kind to her, think back to her OM and her having sex just before you came home on your birthday. That should remind you of the evil psychopath you are married to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

pianoman said:


> Thank you all for your thoughts.. The therapist is saying that it's akin to an addiction, for which she needs help... that it wasn't about cheating, but about an insatiable need to be praised, which she didn't know how to get (she could have asked....) so she chose the most despicable coping mechanism..
> 
> But I've pointed things out to her (old emails from me to her, texts, etc) that show how often I tried to reach out to her, to bring her back because she was so distant.. She says "I'm so utterly sorry.. I didn't even see those outreaches.. My eyes were completely closed, I had no concept of consequence, or right or wrong" - which is what leads the therapist to say it's genuinely an addiction, for which she needs treatment...
> 
> My trust is, however - a very, very, very abused thing. I fail to see how I'll ever get it back...


Bull. It's not an addiction, it was each time a choice she made. She just found a therapist who is giving the babble she wants to use to justify it.

What's the cure then? To drug her up so she has no sex drive? The moment you turn your back she will be cheating again, if she isn't already.

What kind of marriage can that be? And do you think she has love, respect, or empathy for you? How could she have any of that and work so hard to cheat?

How could she ever respect and love a man who would be foolish enough to take her back knowing she is just going to cheat again?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

pianoman said:


> Thank you all for your thoughts.. The therapist is saying that it's akin to an addiction, for which she needs help... that it wasn't about cheating, but about an insatiable need to be praised, which she didn't know how to get (she could have asked....) so she chose the most despicable coping mechanism..
> 
> But I've pointed things out to her (old emails from me to her, texts, etc) that show how often I tried to reach out to her, to bring her back because she was so distant.. She says "I'm so utterly sorry.. I didn't even see those outreaches.. My eyes were completely closed, I had no concept of consequence, or right or wrong" - which is what leads the therapist to say it's genuinely an addiction, for which she needs treatment...
> 
> My trust is, however - a very, very, very abused thing. I fail to see how I'll ever get it back...


I was going to post something about love/sex addiction, since I am married to one. Thankfully he didn't abuse my trust as much as yours has been abused. 

Being married to a sex addict is not something to be done lightly. If she HAS finally seen the light and enters treatment, it still involves uncertainties not present when recovering from infidelity by a non-addict.

Have a look at the links in my sig. She should be in a 12 step program if she truly is an addict.

AND - this is MOST IMPORTANT - DO NOT let either her or her counselors/therapists use 'addiction' as an excuse. IT IS NOT. There is help out there, it's her choice whether to seek it or not.

And it's your choice whether you want to stay and fight the battle with her. Frankly, I don't think I'd be with my hubby if he had the long term pattern your wife does.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> Bull. It's not an addiction, it was each time a choice she made. She just found a therapist who is giving the babble she wants to use to justify it.
> 
> What's the cure then? To drug her up so she has no sex drive? The moment you turn your back she will be cheating again, if she isn't already.
> 
> ...


A lot of people think this way, OP. I guess it's up to you what you think, ultimately. This is the kind of stuff you'll have to put up with if you decide to stay.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Another fact you should be very very worried about is since she has apparently been this way for years, and taught in a school. She very likely had sex with students there,as her age was only a couple of years older than the students there. This may come out down the road, and if she did have sex with them it would be very very bad.

At a minimum she would be publically identified as a former teacher who had sex with students. The press loves those stories.

Even worse she might be charged as a sex offender.

Do you want to be married to that woman? Do you want your last name up on the TV screen?

Run run run.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

You can save a broken a marriage but not a broken person. This woman is sick and it's not your work or responsibility to fix her. 

What IS your responsibility is your own happiness and the first step to that is a divorce ASAP.

One thing for sure... It's that there are many more men than you think and that she'll admit to. She is poison to you and the sooner you can be away from her the better.

On a final note: you do not love this woman... what you may still love is the image that you had of her, and that is not real.

Divorce


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

pianoman said:


> Thank you all for your thoughts.. The therapist is saying that it's akin to an addiction, for which she needs help... that it wasn't about cheating, but about an insatiable need to be praised, which she didn't know how to get (she could have asked....) so she chose the most despicable coping mechanism..
> 
> But I've pointed things out to her (old emails from me to her, texts, etc) that show how often I tried to reach out to her, to bring her back because she was so distant.. She says "I'm so utterly sorry.. I didn't even see those outreaches.. My eyes were completely closed, I had no concept of consequence, or right or wrong" - which is what leads the therapist to say it's genuinely an addiction, for which she needs treatment...
> 
> My trust is, however - a very, very, very abused thing. I fail to see how I'll ever get it back...


RUN!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Btw, now you have to wonder how many times you had sex with her right after another man, think back to all those times she was already worked up or flushed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh, now I feel sick. And a little bit unclean... why? Because you make a very good point. 

Reminder to get the tests done...


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

You would be out of your mind to even consider recovery with her. She has screwed other men 46 more times than with you. She got dumped prior to being married previously because of her cheating. She has played you for a total fool and put your health at risk for STD's.
1. Get tested for STD's.
2. Get a great lawyer.
3. She is absolutely toxic to you and is a totally broken woman who has no respect for you whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will?
4. She has absolutely no problem lying to your face time and again and humiliating and disrespecting you and your marriage in a very very sick way and the worst way imanginable. Get out and never look back.
5. Contact the OM's wife and let her know about her scum husband.

Why did she even marry you? It seems she married you only because her previous fiancee gave her the boot because of her cheating and she could not get married to her lover. You are clearly the door prize. This story is just unbelievable. What a sick person she is. Save yourself.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I sense you're willing to forgive and reconcile pianoman, the real question however is how committed is your wife to treating her sex addiction and more importantly, can she be satisfied with you to be her only sexual partner from now onwards. These are very important questions which she needs to be truthful about in order to allow you to find a partner who's cut out for monogamy and for her to live the way she pleases. She's already screwed over her ex finance and now her husband, empathy doesn't seem to register with this individual.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, now I feel sick. And a little bit unclean... why? Because you make a very good point.
> 
> Reminder to get the tests done...


If you read the texts back and forth it's clear that she and the OM actually planed doing this and thought it was funny.

See this is why I don't buy the sex addiction angle, especially here. She was getting plenty of sex, but she was also deliberately thinking out and enjoying cruel and humiliating actions against her husband. That says she must frankly hate him and enjoyed doing it to him. That's not an addict, thats a nasty cruel psycho.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

"She has screwed other men 46 more times than with you."

The 46 is only the number you know about !! How many others were there -- just wondering !!


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Time to leave!!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> If you read the texts back and forth it's clear that she and the OM actually planed doing this and thought it was funny.
> 
> See this is why I don't buy the sex addiction angle, especially here. She was getting plenty of sex, but she was also deliberately thinking out and enjoying cruel and humiliating actions against her husband. That says she must frankly hate him and enjoyed doing it to him. That's not an addict, thats a nasty cruel psycho.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can someone be addicted to hurtful behaviour rather than being addicted to sex?

Was she playing the therapist like a rusty trumpet?


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Another thing, regarding her being "horrified" about reading the texts and what she'd done, I'm a little skeptical because her initial reaction to getting found out the first time was to plan to be more careful and continue to lie to you until she got caught so many times it became explicitly clear what she was up to.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

There's never a consensus in this forum

Yet there was one here


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Was she playing the therapist like a rusty trumpet?


This is important to note. Unless she's seeing a certified sex addiction therapist, she isn't getting the treatment she needs. There are links to find one in the link in my sig.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Complexity said:


> Another thing, regarding her being "horrified" about reading the texts and what she'd done, I'm a little skeptical because her initial reaction to getting found out was to plan to be more careful and continue to lie to you until she got caught so many times it became explicitly clear what she was up to.


This is typical addictive behaviour. Covering up and hiding, then looking back on what they've done and being horrified.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> This is typical addictive behaviour. Covering up and hiding, then looking back on what they've done and being horrified.


How does one know when their remorse is genuine and not a continuation of their previous covering up and hiding?


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

I feel sick.. dear God.. who did I marry?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I' m positively sure that you do not have the full story yet. You don't have kids, right? Divorce and go dark on her.

The pain will be bad in the first few months, you might want to take some advice regarding that


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Complexity said:


> How does one know when their remorse is genuine and not a continuation of their previous covering up and hiding?


Same way any betrayed spouse knows when their partner has stopped. Complete and total transparency, repentant behaviour, willingness to engage in therapy, both MC and IC, as well as a 12 step program, accountability, affection. This all has to go on for some time before it can be accepted too. 

An addict is truly remorseful, maybe more often than non addicts. They just aren't wired to resist the 'high' they seek. They have to get help, almost always, to kick the habit. So I would never even consider staying with one who wasn't in treatment. 12 step program MINIMUM. For the length of transgressions outlined here, I'd say CSAT and 12 step program.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I think divorce is a no brainer in this case even if she is remorseful


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

I guess pianoman you should follow Hope's advice, she has the most experience in dealing with a person like your wife. If you're still pro reconciliation she has to follow all the stuff Hope outlined and you can weigh your options from there. If you still think this marriage is salvageable your wife has to regain your trust by any means possible and prove that she's seeking treatment for her addiction.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> I think divorce is a no brainer in this case even if she is remorseful


It would be for 99.9% of people, that's for sure.


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

It is a bitter and grotesque pill to swallow. Your wife is not the woman you thought she was.

As others have stated, though, it sounds like you can make a clean break. I think reconciliation in this case is an utter waste of your time and energy - divorce is by _far_ the best option for you right now.

Doubtless you are disgusted - physically ill, betrayed and heartbroken. "Lost and bewildered" as you stated in the title of this thread. I don't think you will ever be able to stomach what this woman has done. Fortunately, you don't have to.

Don't listen to her. Don't help her. She is a chronic lier, traitor and frankly, a slattern. To hell with what this therapist is spouting. Walk yourself to the lawyer of your choice, and draft-up the divorce paperwork. You do *not* need to tolerate her _disgusting_ lifestyle.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

pianoman said:


> I feel sick.. dear God.. who did I marry?


Unfortunately a sick person. Clearly someone who does not share the same values or conscience you do. Even if therapy gets her to stop, there is the fact that her morals didn't have any problem with what she was doing. No guilt or remorse. If anything she enjoyed it even more because of the cruelty.

Therapy can teach self awareness, it can teach communication, but it can't fundamentally change what you believe in, or what you view as right and wrong.

You married a lie she constructed for you to see. It was a fraud deliberately constructed to deceive you. Just like a con artist that steals your money, she stole your gift of being your wife and partner. Hopefully the HIV and STD tests come back clean for you.

You really need to contact the affair partners wife / gf and let then know about it all. They need std testing ASAP as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

pianoman, your post is the first one I have read since joining this site that has triggered "rage" in me and renewed memories of when I found out my ex had been doing the same or perhaps worse while I was supporting her "lifestyle".
You will never be able to trust this spluge bucket if you try to stay with her.
GET OUT NOW!!
As an afterthought, your soon to be ex (if you are smart) sounds like
she could give my ex a run for the prize for spreading them for the most guys.
Mine managed to pull so many trains that she has never been able to pin down who fathered her two children while she was living off of me. All she knows is they were two different guys and she doesn't even know the names of the guys she was banging.
(at least you don't have to pay for any paternity tests)


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

That's perhaps the hardest part - is how she seemed to relish in the cruelty of everything. She says to me that she's suffering because of what she did - she feels disgusting, horrified, totally unable to believe what she did, literally hating herself.. I'm trying to explain to her that perhaps the hurt I'm feeling might be a little more than hers.. that no matter what, addiction, madness, etc., there's nothing more personal than cheating on me. She didn't cheat on everyone, only me.

I wish she'd chosen heroin.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

pianoman said:


> I feel sick.. dear God.. who did I marry?


Pianoman, you are not alone... we're here for you and w'll guide you through this crap.

If anything you're extremely lucky and should be very grateful. You've found this out only after a few years of marriage. Plus you seem to be very young... you're life is just beginning. Some people here find this out about their spouse after 15, 20 or 25 years of marriage. I once discovered that an X of mine had slept with every single friend of mine.... i therefore have a good idea of what you're going through.

What is the most important thing at the moment is to act in a way that when you will look back in the future, you will be proud of yourself.

This is not a case of a S getting drunk with friends and "forgetting" that she's married to you. This a pathological disorder with which she'll deal with for the rest of her life. You could spend years accompanying her through therapy while never being able to trust her again. Heck, she doesn't even trust herself.

Please give us frequent updates.


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

Thank you. It feels really good to be heard. God knows I've felt mute and silenced for so long.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

pianoman said:


> That's perhaps the hardest part - is how she seemed to relish in the cruelty of everything. She says to me that she's suffering because of what she did - she feels disgusting, horrified, totally unable to believe what she did, literally hating herself.. I'm trying to explain to her that perhaps the hurt I'm feeling might be a little more than hers.. that no matter what, addiction, madness, etc., there's nothing more personal than cheating on me. She didn't cheat on everyone, only me.
> 
> I wish she'd chosen heroin.


Do not waste time trying to dig deeper... What you will find won't help you. This is not time explanations... It's time for action: DIVORCE!

Have you called a lawyer yet? If not, do it!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Who did you marry? A nice, lovely girl. But that was turned off an replaced by a monster.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

As AlmostRecovered says. We NEVER agree here 

I am for Reconciliation where there is hope of any sort but i have a list to go though.. this failed all of them.
Length of relationship is short
There are no children involved
There has been a long history of cheating.
She has no real remorse other than remorse at getting caught.

If you had been in a Long term relationship and this was a new "addiction" then perhaps then you would try. 
In this case I am sorry to say that I would not attempt reconciliation of the marriage. 
You deserve a person who loves you. Her actions tell you the truth of this.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Notice all her suffering is about what she did etc and how bad she feels about being that person. Not empathy for how it has made you feel.

Everything is her her her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Just wondering, is there a single day where she didn't have sex with someone, or anyone? I have read horrible stories over the net but this one surpasses them all, sorry buddy.

Since she didn't confess on her own and you had to snoop to get the truth, Im afraid this relationship is beyond destroyed. Protect yourself financially and divorce her hard. Also get tested STD/STIs right away.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Were you aware of her previous affair when you married her?


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

I was. Of course I believed it was a one off thing - a big mistake that someone makes once in their lifetime.. learns from, and never does again. She also backed up that belief with her words of disgust and deep remorse for having done that. 

So I knew, but saw it as a young, stupid mistake (or, learning experience). I didn't realize how much it was actually an indication of a fundamental character flaw. I'm coming to grasp the notion that it's a chronic behavior and not, in fact, the stupid thing that many people do.

I was naive.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

So will you do the right thing and expose to the OMW?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

My fWW count is 20, and yes it is a behavior and life style that is so unhealthy for her. In my case I'm witnessing a healthier person and a complete change in life style and behavior, so I am sharing that with her. As far as her chacter, i believe we both have our flaws.

I'm wired different then most and I have been forgiven for my phsyical abuse towards her, so that is were I find my stregth in forgiving my fWW for her infidelity.
But make no mistake I have taken stock in my marriage and I have looked at the spread sheet in my investment and along with the heavy lifting my fWW is doing *we* have choosen to R.

With 20 yrs of M and the 2 kids along with the assets, this invest ment only played a small part compared to the new marriage and the new person we both have become.

You will do what you need to do. Just like we have done what we know is right, and that is having a healthier life with healthier behaviors with new poeple that we have known for 20 yrs.

This **** is tough brother, make no mistake, but so is divorce. You my friend may need to let her go but only your wife can help you decide that through the heavy actions she shows you in making her self a healthier individual.

Good luck on your assesment and take the time....time is so important it will validate the dicision you make for *your* future.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

pianoman said:


> That's perhaps the hardest part - is how she seemed to relish in the cruelty of everything. She says to me that she's suffering because of what she did - she feels disgusting, horrified, totally unable to believe what she did, literally hating herself.. I'm trying to explain to her that perhaps the hurt I'm feeling might be a little more than hers.. that no matter what, addiction, madness, etc., there's nothing more personal than cheating on me. She didn't cheat on everyone, only me.


I am so sorry you're here, the only thing I have to add is that serial cheaters are often narcissists, and this more than anything else you've written strongly suggests that is her core problem. Someone else mentioned in another thread that it's hard to get a firm diagnosis of narcissism because narcissists won't stay long enough with one therapist to get such a diagnosis. Narcissists believe their problems are all external, therefore they don't believe they need to change. Everyone else should change for them.

Narcissists are also notoriously, if not often impossible, to treat in therapy because they don't see the point in improving on perfection.

Her lack of empathy is chilling--she is Exhibit A in what it means to be wracked with guilt but not remorse.


You may be interested in reading the threads of Poppy and sham1024, they are both women whose husbands cheated on them with prostitutes. Women like your wife have little need to pay for sex so you may think on a superficial level their stories don't line up with yours. But if you look at both of them you will see spouses who had sex and lied and had sex and lied and both men were diagnosed narcissists.

Poppy and her husband saw a sex addiction counselor, ultimately the counselor recommended that Poppy leave her husband and after discovering a variety of additional lies that is what Poppy has decided to do, although it's very much a day-to-day struggle for her right now.

One last comment about narcissism, and sham1024's and Poppy's posts are instructive in this regard: nothing makes a narcissist come running like rejection. Narcissists can't bear it and will turn on their full charm to persuade you you're making a mistake. It is intended to put you in your place so they can resume the life to which they are accustomed.

Perhaps your wife is not a narcissist or perhaps after a great deal of deep therapy, she may be able to recover. Obviously an actual EXCELLENT therapist trained in sex addiction would have to sort all of this out.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

You have your answer. She was disgusted with what ended the 1st, and was remorseful. Then turn right around and do it again. Now she's the same this time. CONSEQUENCES, no 2nd marriage either. You saw how disgusted she was then, is it the same now ? Bet it is. Until she gets you fat and happy again. You have no obligation to stick around fo the rehab. BC later, if she feel you are not attentive enough, she will do so again. They call it relapse in addictions. Do you want to visit here again in the future. Read up on addictions. No one gets it right the first couple of times. NO ONE !! So it a sure thing she will relapse.


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## Shamwow (Aug 15, 2011)

Holy balls. Sorry dude. You got a lemon. Trade it in STAT. There are so many good women out there that want a good man.

Take care of yourself, see a counselor and work through the grief of being blindsided by lies from the "one you love". That's the hardest part.

Get in the best shape of your life, dump her a$$ quick and stick to it. You deserve so much better. Lawyer NOW.

Not to sound dismissive and negative...I love the institution of marriage and what it stands for...just been through infidelity (though by NO MEANS to this extent...jeezus), and know the dignified light at the end of the divorce tunnel is so much more rewarding than wading through the sh!tstorm of lies and horrific mind movies of her with all those other men. Her odds of changing are nil. Cut your losses.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Not trained ICs are useless, find a CSAT.

And people here are right, she knows there's something wrong with her, she already screwed up a potential marriage and now her real marriage. If you wait so far for her to start treatment you will be horrified with full official disclosure. Think about dozens.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

She can work on her self but will OP be around to see the benifits?
There is alot of damage, and the mind movies is what breaks most (refer to juicers thread).
If there is not much of an investment OP should move on but if there is some hope that WW can fix her self then OP may beable to benifit.
My thinking is will OP get involved with a different chick that is just as freakking as the old one? In my case I could be so lucky, but for OP it may be best to move on and take the risk.

The question remains, why is she so broken?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

the guy said:


> The question remains, why is she so broken?


My guess is she never faced any consequence in her lifetime, for anything. Any person with an ounce of common sense would know what not to do and when to stop. I don't think she would even stop if she had herpes/HIV or any other serious STD.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

A male forum member, Badblood, chose not to reconcile with his broken/suicidal cheating wife but has helped her get the treatment she desperately needed to address and resolve her severe issues. The point is that you can help her (therapy) while helping yourself (divorce). Give it some thought.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

pianoman, has she been more transparent i.e gave you her passwords, updates you on her whereabouts without asking?


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> A male forum member, Badblood, chose not to reconcile with his broken/suicidal cheating wife but has helped her get the treatment she desperately needed to address and resolve her severe issues. The point is that you can help her (therapy) while helping yourself (divorce). Give it some thought.


Morituri,

I was going to say the same thing... These are very similar cases. In fact, I think that we need Badblood on this thread.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

I would ask you how you feel about swinging, but it's possible that swingers have more integrity than your wife. If I even came across an A.M. account...


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Pianoman, do you have a good support system? Parents and good friends? Please let them know what's going on. If you were my friend or neighbour I would just take you of there.


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## ilgitano (Apr 2, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> I would ask you how you feel about swinging, but it's possible that swingers have more integrity than your wife. If I even came across an A.M. account...


Swinging only works (if at all on the long term) there's an extremely high level of trust in the R and should never be used as a bandaid or a way to repair the R. 

What Pianoman needs is a divorce.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Have you visited fetlife? Nice people don't hook up on fetlife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

ilgitano said:


> Swinging only works (if at all on the long term) there's an extremely high level of trust in the R and should never be used as a bandaid or a way to repair the R.
> 
> What Pianoman needs is a divorce.


That's for sure. That A.M. account means do not pass go, do not collect $200, go to divorce.


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## t_hopper_2012 (Apr 17, 2012)

pianoman said:


> She's had sex 46 more times in the last year than I have.


I haven't read all the responses to your heart-wrenching post, but I wanted to point out a couple of things. 1) This is 46 more times that you know of. How many don't you know? 2) You only dug back one year. What about the previous years?

It's very, very sad to say this, but I think that you need to cut your losses and get a divorce. Find somebody that is worthy of your love.


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

An update..

I looked at texts she has recently sent - within the last 4 weeks.. and they are essentially, to the OM, "We cannot do this anymore! this is disgusting and we've debased ourselves and thrown our loved ones to the curb. Never, ever contact me again."

Also an email to her good friend recently:
"Oh my god what the hell did I do? I was chasing the high and the thrill and completely detached myself from remorse or consequence! I feel like the scum on the bottom of a pond. I love my husband so incredibly much.. I have been living in a fog. I'm out of it now and I'm horrified with myself. Oh my god. I think he's going to leave me, and I wouldn't blame him. Can I even wish for the miracle that he'll give me another chance? I'm an empty shell of a person, what the hell happened to me? I even don't remember things clearly - like they have been blocked out by some part of my brain. He's reading me texts that I honestly don't remember writing.. so disgusting and explicit. I think I'm going crazy because there's this other-person-ness to the me that committed this atrocity - I feel like she's not me, because I can't even relate to what I did. It's terrifying. I've hurt him so deeply, and I'm so horrified that I did that to him, and that I am the cause of the anguish he is in. I wish I could take it back! It wasn't worth it in any way. I am going to happily spend the rest of my life making it up to him. If he'll have me, or even look at me. I regret this more than anything in my life, more than I ever thought possible to regret. Where the hell did my empathy and compassion go? It's utter madness.. what happened?!? The two therapists I'm seeing agree that it's comparable to becoming addicted to the rush, chasing the "hit", regardless of how destructive it was in every way. I'm so glad he found everything. I needed to be rescued from myself. I can't even fathom what I did.. and he saw me write all these compliments to the guy.. praising him.. but I never meant it! I was doing that to boost his ego, which in turn boosted my high.. And then once I was going full speed ahead, I needed more, just like a drug. So I got involved with fetish stuff, dating/cheating sites, even an old student of mine! What the hell?! They said the only explanation is the addiction to the euphoria. And in addiction, when the "drug of choice" no longer works, you increase the dose. Which is what I did. I was deceptive, shrewd, disgusting and utterly sociopathic. I am going to figure this all out. They think it stems from childhood in some way. A need to be worshiped. I didn't even know it was happening until it was too late. One day it was coffee and 'how have you been these last few years', to 2 weeks later, "Have time for a quickie?" - What the hell!? I've screwed up so horrifyingly - I don't deserve him. I can only pray that he will even remotely entertain the idea of working through this. I have trampled on my best friend's heart, I have taken away his sense of structure and belief in the world. I've made it so everything he now believes and remembers is tainted with thoughts and images. Oh my god.. why did I ever think it would be okay to go for that first coffee with him. I can't understand it. All I know is, the entire time, I was always complimenting that loser, and when he wouldn't compliment me back, I would actually say "What about me? Do you have a compliment for me?" and then say something disgusting to make him compliment me. Why the hell didn't I turn to my husband for all these things that he so amazingly gave to me, without reservation, deception or mind games. We were uncomplicated and I love him so much. I had to complicate everything. I'm speechless, mortified and I hate myself. I've eviscerated the one I love. I lost myself. I coped by numbing the guilt with more infidelity. It doesn't even make SENSE! When I was the most upset in life, I sought to numb it selfishly. When he was in hospital I was so distraught that I actually cheated on him - while he was in hospital! That's absolutely sick! Holy crap.. where the hell did I go!?"

Knowing she didn't write that for me to see, I do believe that she is genuine in what she's saying. I don't know what to do.. I hear genuine remorse and guilt, sorrow and appreciation for me, who she threw "to the curb". I know there's a thought of "Don't you see the warning signs in needing to check her email and text?"

She's being absolutely forthcoming with usernames, passwords, cell phone password, chat software passwords.. I also went through the cache and found sites she'd gone to, and she willingly gave the login information for those. She has said "Anytime you need to check anything at all, I will show you, or give the phone to you.. without trying to delete or hide what I was doing in it. I'm so relieved to not have to keep track of 1000 lies."

sigh...


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

if she truly loves you and is truly remorseful then she will let you go to spare you of the pain that you will have for years and years if you stay


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

It's ultimately up to you where you decide to go from here, remorse and sorrow are the most important signs that your wife has come to terms with her actions and how much they've hurt you. You know your wife more than we do and whether you decide to reconcile and address these issues together or divorce is a decision you need to think about long and hard. You're probably going to go through a plethora of emotions so you need to make this decision rationally so as to not incur regret or falsely reconcile.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Since you confronted her before through her emails I dont see how you would think that email is genuine.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think she has simply found a new rush: being the focus of attention of how bad she has been. Her note is filled with I,I,I,I .

Notice there isn't discussion about you in there? Even when she mentions you, it is about what you are going to do to her. 

Right now she is getting fantastic amounts of attention all directed at her. She's got two therapist, you, this friend, all because of what she did. And when that settles a bit, she can roll out a new level of shock like the fetish, bsdm, group stuff she did.

And what will she replace this with when it fades? Eventually she will run out of nasty stuff to generate attention. Will she go create new nasty stuff by cheating more? It's very likely.

So while she was engaging in wild crazy sex, how was your sex life at home? Did she open up and get crazy with you? Or did she trickle you down to nothing, or sex if she had to asa chore?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

It sounds to me like you are looking for excuses to stay.

I guess if you're going to stay my advice is to not make any decisions for at LEAST 6 months. Wait and see. If she continues to do what she needs to, if she goes to a CSAT and joins a 12 step group, if she apologizes and is remorseful and worships the ground you walk on for those 6 months, let her know it's going to be at minimum another 2-5 years before you are what might be called "recovered". And that even then you may decide to call it quits. And that if she has even HALF a relapse you are GONE.

You are in for a long, tough haul my friend. She's gonna break your heart over and over.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

pianoman said:


> to the OM, "We cannot do this anymore! this is disgusting and we've debased ourselves and thrown our loved ones to the curb. Never, ever contact me again."
> 
> to her good friend:
> "Oh my god what the hell did I do? I was chasing the high and the thrill and completely detached myself from remorse or consequence! I feel like the scum on the bottom of a pond. I love my husband so incredibly much.. I have been living in a fog. I'm out of it now and I'm horrified with myself. Oh my god. I think he's going to leave me, and I wouldn't blame him. Can I even wish for the miracle that he'll give me another chance?. . .*He's reading me texts that I honestly don't remember writing.. so disgusting and explicit*."
> ...


I am really confused. Those messages struck me as something a cheater would write if they KNEW their spouse was reading what they wrote.

You QUOTE her as KNOWING that you read her texts.

Then you say in your next breath that she didn't write that for you to see.

Sorry, I don't follow--that makes no sense! I think she absolutely DID write those for you to see and her word is only as good as the "paper" it's written on.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> I am really confused. Those messages struck me as something a cheater would write if they KNEW their spouse was reading what they wrote.
> 
> You QUOTE her as KNOWING that you read her texts.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

And the terms used seem awfully familiar, like fog, addiction, kicked the curb, etc. Almost as if she's been reading from sites like this. I've only learned those terms used in a affair on sites like this. Is it possible she could have snooped on him and checked his computer history, lurked on here or other sites, then wrote the email for his benefit?

Something doesn't smell right in Denmark.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> :iagree:
> 
> And the terms used seem awfully familiar, like fog, addiction, kicked the curb, etc. Almost as if she's been reading from sites like this. I've only learned those terms used in a affair on sites like this. Is it possible she could have snooped on him and checked his computer history, lurked on here or other sites, then wrote the email for his benefit?
> 
> Something doesn't smell right in Denmark.


She is in therapy so it may be coming from there?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Right, the letter totally looks like it was addressed to you. Friend, huh? She knows that you go through the mails right? She is using it.She is a sociopath. You should be very careful.

Even if she is being remorseful, the damage is too big to repair.

edit: I stopped reading the letter in the middle. It is incredibly manipulative. Look at this.



> I'm so glad he found everything. I needed to be rescued from myself.


Wow!!

Then she blamed her childhood.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Someone already said it before I read it. I think your wife meant for you to read her emails. My wife did something similar knowing I would read a letter. She figured that I could open the envelope without her knowing it (I did) and seal it back up. It was a phoney letter to throw me off. Afterward I told her I read the letter and she said I knew you would but I could not tell if you had opened it or not as it looked the same way I sealed it. I think your wife did the same thing. I don't know your wife you do so take it from me and others that it seems very fishy.

I am typically pro marriage and pro-R. I would wait and not make hasty decisions but if I was to say anything right now it would be to run for the hills. I think your wife is way beyond fixing anything. Divorse her and don't look back. 

Get tested for STD's.

Expose this to everyone.

Make copies of what you have.

Talk to an attorney.

Sorry you are going through this.


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## LostWifeCrushed (Feb 7, 2012)

C'mon, pianoman.....she is happy to be transparent so she won't have to keep 1000 lies straight!!!!??????

Good lord. It IS all about her!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I have NO DOUBT the ''friend email'' was carefully composed for your eyes, she knows you monitor her comunications. It push ALL the right bottoms, ''right'' emotions and epiphanies, tis' almost the scriop for the perfect remorseful screwed up WW... so much it's impossible to reach those conclusions without a script; too perfect to be true. She's a master manipulator.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Cheater's remorse consists of sorrow for getting caught, having the guy who has been paying the bills drive away after getting a divorce and realizing that they will be on their own if they can't trap another mark to put up with them.


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## pianoman (May 30, 2012)

I don't normally follow up on things like this after so many years - but I figured I would bookend this thread. 6 years later. We're still together. Happily and lovingly married. We now have 2 kids, 2 and 4 years old. The cheating and infidelity did stop - never happened again. She sought lots of help, lots of therapy. We rediscovered each other. Began again. I got tougher. Found a way to live a bit jaded, but strong and calm. I've found a peace. Life is, what it is. Hope you're all doing well.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope you still keep an eye on her phone. Just like alcoholics they are just one drink away. 

Yeah I'm that guy....












And I'm right.


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## Mstanton (Feb 8, 2011)

Oh 'split personalities' my behind. People who suffer from that extreme condition do not have memories of the other person - she would not be hiding things from you as the other person, because that person is not married to you. 

She's sorry she got caught. Make her pay friend, make her pay.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Wow, did you ever really get a complete confession, do you even know how many people she was with, and that she wasn't with any of your neighbors who still live near by.

Did you at least have her take a polygraph?

Tamat


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Was prepared to see some zombie brains but thx for the update. Don't think I've seen one posted after 6 years have passed.

Glad things are working out for you two.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Mstanton said:


> Oh 'split personalities' my behind. People who suffer from that extreme condition do not have memories of the other person - she would not be hiding things from you as the other person, because that person is not married to you.
> 
> She's sorry she got caught. Make her pay friend, make her pay.


Your understanding of this type of mental illness is flawed.

This might help dispel some myths:- https://healthcare.utah.edu/the-scope/shows.php?shows=0_im1nk05i


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

pianoman said:


> I don't normally follow up on things like this after so many years - but I figured I would bookend this thread. 6 years later. We're still together. Happily and lovingly married. We now have 2 kids, 2 and 4 years old. The cheating and infidelity did stop - never happened again. She sought lots of help, lots of therapy. We rediscovered each other. Began again. I got tougher. Found a way to live a bit jaded, but strong and calm. I've found a peace. Life is, what it is. Hope you're all doing well.


Thank God! And I mean that.

I am glad you have peace, are still with your wife and have two beautiful children.

Thanks for taking the time to find us again and share your update with us. :smthumbup:


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