# I signed an unfair separation agreement!



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Hello I got divorced several years ago and at the time I was completely demoralized and even suicidal at times and made bad decisions. My exwife cheated on me and filed so many motions that by the time we got in front of the judge the last time I had no money and no faith in my attorney because she got so many orders in her favor during the previous court appearances and he just kept postponing and delaying to work on other cases that were more important than mine.

So I went that last time pro se meaning no attorney and signed an agreement that my ex and her attorney said was fair and the basic agreement that everyone signs when they get divorced. I didn't really question it and to be honest didn't even read the whole thing because I had to get back to work I was already in trouble for missing so many days. I was under an extreme amount of pressure from my job and could not take another day off. I admittedly did not read the entire document as I was told it was a standard agreement by my ex wife. It says specifically "husband shall be barred from making an application to reduce or terminate alimony based on any future cohabitation and wife shall be barred from making an application based upon husbands cohabitation" 

Ive been paying about $48,000 per year since the divorce even though she is living with the guy she cheated on me with. They moved in together the same day we got divorced or right around then. The agreement states that alimony will go up as the children become emancipated so my ex will get in excess of $48,000 until death of either me or her and cannot be eliminated or reduced even if one of us cohabitates or marries. 

I was making about $130k until I lost my job last month with little prospects of employment for the near future I have sent out dozens of resumes but no one is hiring old timers like myself.

After losing my job I filed a motion again pro se to modify the alimony and I was shocked when the at the last court appearance, the judge stated although the PSA is "inequitable" and benefited my ex 100% and no benefit to me, since I signed it it was not subjected to modification. At the time I just wanted to be divorced and was missing too many days at work and had no money left for a lawyer so I just signed. 

I begged my exwife to give me a break until I find work but she just sent me back a laughing smiley saying "Enjoy prison". She is so cold and heartless I cannot believe a woman I once loved would treat me this way. 

I am begging and am desperate for help. I feel like I may have a nervous breakdown. Also she told my children I am a lousy father because I want to get out of paying her the money she is due and they aren't talking to me now.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

23 people have read this thread and no one responds.

Why are you people reading and not commenting?


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I just read where you can't delete your own threads so please do not quote my post above or any others so I can put a dot instead of the words should the need arise.

THANK YOU


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Manchester said:


> ...


Maybe because the most often thought they have is "A man who represents himself has a fool for a client."

Look... you screwed up. I understand why but there's not much you can do. Perhaps find a lawyer who would work for you pro bono, like a men's rights lawyer. Or, try to develop a better relationship with your ex (although her comment "enjoy prison" indicates that may be impossible).


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Legally, you represented yourself and are fully responsible for your own decisions. The time to challenge the agreement based on it being signed under duress has long passed.

When you filed for a reduction in alimony and/or support, did you file for the reduction on grounds she was cohabitating and had a higher household income or on the grounds that your income has been reduced?


----------



## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

You need legal advice. I strongly recommend you get a good attorney immediately.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Well thank you for those responses but not very enlightening not that I expected much anyway it was mostly a vent.

Yes I KNOW I messed up.

Don't even know who to trust anymore in terms of attorneys they blow smoke up your behind and tell you what you want to hear and then it never happens.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I guess I was asking if anyone on here has had something like this happen and they were able to get it changed.

If so under what circumstances.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Sounds like you either knowingly or unknowingly got fleeced!

I'd have an independent legal counsel review your documents and make appropriate recommendations!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Also I don't want to give my state because I read you can't delete your threads but lets say it's a state that still has not reformed it's laws and sometimes still gives lifetime alimony but after 10 years and not for LIFE it usually ends at retirement or at least is lowered same with cohabitation.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

When I lost my job and begged her she said I'm telling the children you quit your job to get out of paying me. She hasn't even had a job even though the court said she must get a job of at leat $25k for which she is capable. She never even tried and the judge doesn't even address that.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Sounds like you either knowingly or unknowingly got fleeced!
> 
> I'd have an independent legal counsel review your documents and make appropriate recommendations!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They don't give free consultations in my area. Minimum = $300 and I cannot even believe what I am told from past experience.

I am in the negative these past few years I wasn't making the amount the support was based on and have gotten deeper in debt I am truly into the negative. Cannot afford an attorney and don't even know if they could help which is why I am asking for free advice.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

You have to apply for a temporary reduction based on your unemployed status. The court may ask you to regularly submit a list of jobs you have applied to, so keep records.


----------



## Lila (May 30, 2014)

Try a forum like mensdivorce.com. there's also several other sites supported by family law offices that offer legal advice on their website. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Lila- I have posted on other forums they all say I am screwed and it's my fault and do it better in my next life.

Seriously that's what they have to offer.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> You have to apply for a temporary reduction based on your unemployed status. The court may ask you to regularly submit a list of jobs you have applied to, so keep records.


MJJEAN- Thank you that is helpful I will look into doing that!

Although I have read sometimes the courts don't care they just say you are capable of earning it so find a way to make it otherwise say hello to your new jail cell mate.


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

You f*cked up once by not getting an attorney. You're still making the same mistake.

You're not just going to be able to walk in and fix this pro se. You're going to need procedural assistance with someone that knows the law and judges in your area and knows loop holes that can be exploited.

For someone that made $130K a year and was on the hook for 48 Effing thousand dollars a year you'd think you'd have much more sense than that to represent yourself and not read the most important document of your life.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

-COguy

Not helpful.

You enjoy beating up a guy who is already down?

I think you do.

This is why I tried coming here because I got tons of comments like yours other places.

I already said I know I messed up I was in a bad place emotionally, out of money, in trouble at work and my ex assured me the agreement was fair to both of us and I had no reason not to believe her.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Manchester said:


> MJJEAN- Thank you that is helpful I will look into doing that!
> 
> Although I have read sometimes the courts don't care they just say you are capable of earning it so find a way to make it otherwise say hello to your new jail cell mate.


Reality? Yes, it happens. Sometimes the court believes the person can find employment and is deliberately avoiding work or that they have not been unemployed long enough to warrant a reduction because they can reasonably find another position. If that happens, keep applying for positions and keep records to present to the court when you re-apply for a reduction.

Also, ANY income is often better than none. If you took a position in a related field, even making less, that would help. The court would have proof that you aren't just trying to get out of support and a number to plug into their calculator to set the reduced amount.

Here, the county has the required paperwork to apply for reductions in support online. You pay a fee, fill them out, print or submit by email, and get a court date sent in the mail.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I'll never make as much as I was making before in a related field. I don't want to say what I am trained in because I read you cannot always delete what you write if someone quotes it so lets just say that even in my current profession which I can't even find work in I was making less and there's nothing I can work at that would come close to what I was even making with the income reduction before I lost my job!

It's hopeless.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Hopeless I mean as far as a good job goes but maybe the courts will have mercy given that I signed an agreement that wasn't fair in the first place and it was a job less beyond my control.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Hey Manchester, you need to seat down and talk with a lawyer. No one on here can help you with this. 

Sorry to hear what you are going thru, but you need to find the solution. Good luck man.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Don't say no one can help me. 

You can't help me.

Someone who has been there might be able to relate.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Please do not post if all you are going to do is say you are out of luck and you are a fool.


----------



## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The problem you are going to run into with getting help off TAM is that we live in different states with different rules so there isn't a universal answer on how to help other than get an attorney that knows the laws/loopholes in your state.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I understand that and all I can say is that its one of the states that still supports permanent alimony but it usually terminates with cohabitation or death of either spouse and my agreement specifically forbids that but I didn't realize it said that because I was promised by my exwife and her lawyer that the agreement followed state statutes and I believed them.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

My state also is known to throw non payers into jail and doesn't care about whether they have a good reason (involuntary job loss). 

To another poster- my exwife is LAUGHING at me when I ask her to give me a break. 

Even though she lives with the guy and he works. It's like my money is for their entertainment after the bills are paid with his income and she just sits around all day watching daytime tv shows while I struggle to put food on my own table and stay out of jail.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

The internet is a wonderful tool. Use it to your advantage. Not knowing what state you live here is one in the same situation in FL

https://www.myfloridalaw.com/alimony/modification-alimony-former-husband/




> Our hypothetical Former Husband is okay here because his income has decreased so drastically, he is struggling financially. He cannot pay his own bills and does not have access to any assets that he can use to satisfy the alimony payment each month. The best thing for the Former Husband at this time is to get this case to trial as soon as possible and present the evidence available to him to get his alimony payment modified. The alimony payment should be modified back to the date he filed his supplemental petition to modify. Meanwhile the Former Husband must deal with the uphll battle presented by the laws on alimony modification. Those laws can make it a nerve wracking time for the person that is truly in a bad situation through no fault of their own


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Thank you that may prove useful my state laws are very similar to Florida.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Ok if it helps I am in New Jersey but I will delete this post and replace it with a . soon.


PLEASE DO NOT QUOTE IT

Thank you.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

That article says you need to have decreased income such as job loss for a YEAR.

In a year I'll be completely in the red.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Look, you can't pay when you don't have it to pay. Does not matter what you signed. Have you documents in hand showing loss of job at no fault of your own. Documents for interviews, etc. If you are truly trying how can a court find fault with that? Get a lawyer.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Manchester said:


> That article says you need to have decreased income such as job loss for a YEAR.
> 
> In a year I'll be completely in the red.


That is for the state of FL. Simply type in your search engine, "lost my job and can not pay alimony state of (enter your state)." See what you find.

BTW, you have no income. Further your next job will probably not pay what you were getting. In 12 months you will have that stipulation of decreased pay covered.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

What do you mean I won't have that stipulation of decreased pay covered?

My head is spinning.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I put in my state and it is the exact same as Florida.

Job loss is not considered permanent because hey you can always get a new job!

Right.

The new laws in NJ say 1 year of job loss before it's considered.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You need to see an attorney. In most states you can get changes as life circumstances change.

You might want to try Cordell & Cordell. They have offices in NJ and specialize in men's divorce issues.

There are a few million people in NJ. From what you have posted, no one will be able to tie your post to you in real life. There is really no need for you to delete your posts and this thread would really help a lot of people.

Keep in mind that about 1000 people read here for each person who posts.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Manchester said:


> I put in my state and it is the exact same as Florida.
> 
> Job loss is not considered permanent because hey you can always get a new job!
> 
> ...


Job loss might not be the only way you can get this changed.

If you have proof that she is living with another man, you might be able to get all alimony stopped.

You might also be able to fight on the idea that you had bad representation and then had to represent yourself. Thus were taken advantage of by your ex’s attorney.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

$300 fee to get a legal opinion versus $45,000 per year in alimony...

I think I'd pay the fee. And find a decent lawyer this time.

Or just move to South America and disappear.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Tron said:


> Or just move to South America and disappear.


That would be my suggestion too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Do you have any medical documentation pertaining to depression and thoughts of suicide? Perhaps an attorney can spin it that you were operating in a state of diminished capacity.

"and my ex assured me the agreement was fair to both of us and I had no reason not to believe her." Now, this is just unbelievable. The woman cheated on you, drove you to near bankruptcy and you thought she had your best interests at heart? Make sure you tell your attorney your thoughts as it might bolster the argument for diminished capacity. Make no mistake, you have no business representing yourself in court. Good luck.


----------



## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

You're still complaining about people being hard on you. And yet you are still making the same mistake the first time you screwed yourself. If you don't go get an attorney then you really haven't learned a single lesson from the entire ordeal. People on this board can't help you.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I get why you are angry......real angry. You feel like a caged animal with open bars..........your Ex and her POSOM are poking you with sticks.

The kicker? Passerby's on this blog, TAM, are berating you, telling you that you f'd up.

TO YOU, the TAMMERS words are more jabbing pointed sticks.

You have options and you have two feet.

After a long detailed talk with an attorney in your state, the question becomes.....are you going to get equitable relief?

If yes, bite the short term bullet and make whatever sacrifices are needed to get yourself out from under this sh!t writ. To get the ali-money reduced.

Me? I would move to Alaska, or some other state and lay low. The law will look for deadbeats, but not with gusto. Especially if you are in another state. 

It is not the money, it is the principle and the legal extortion that cannot stand.

You are not a deadbeat....rather will be a Freeman using the underground railroad. Hold your head high, but wear a hoodie.

Good luck.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Move to Canada and work there. She cannot touch you. 


Sent from my iPhone the airport.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Her attorney had no right to be talking to you and making representations about the document. I think you have a good basis to claim he took advantage of you. If he had been talking to your atty, then yes he would be trying his best to bullsht your atty, but your atty would have the background to understand and evaluate the documents. Furthermore, your state laws may say differently than your divorce decree, which may make the divorce papers invalid or weak.

Your state should have some form of free legal representation for low/no income people. The state court may provide it, or various charitable organizations. That's where I would start.

You're in a bad spot and you need a competent lawyer to put together the exact correct words on the correct legal documents. This is not something you can do yourself. 

Try networking. Do you have an acquaintance or coworker who is married to a lawyer or works at a law firm? You might get an unofficial but useful free 15 minute chat with a real lawyer. Or you may get a referral to a free or inexpensive lawyer.

You also need a lawyer to put your ex-wife's feet to the fire in court over the issue of her not working per the divorce agreement.

Keep copies of her "enjoy prison" message.

If you don't have children, you do have the option of moving to another country. While that is not ideal in many ways, it may be an ok option. But I'd talk to qualified attorneys where you live and see what they say. I think you have compelling arguments to get things changed, you just need a qualified shark who knows how to approach this properly.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You need to see an attorney. In most states you can get changes as life circumstances change.
> 
> You might want to try Cordell & Cordell. They have offices in NJ and specialize in men's divorce issues.
> 
> ...


You wrote my state in your post!!!!!!

Now I cannot remove it!

She will FIND ME HERE.

This will make my life even more miserable she already texted me that I didn't pay for October and says I won't do well in jail because I'm a wimp.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> I get why you are angry......real angry. You feel like a caged animal with open bars..........your Ex and her POSOM are poking you with sticks.
> 
> The kicker? Passerby's on this blog, TAM, are berating you, telling you that you f'd up.
> 
> TO YOU, the TAMMERS words are more jabbing pointed sticks.


People are so mean here but thank you!


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Job loss might not be the only way you can get this changed.
> 
> If you have proof that she is living with another man, you might be able to get all alimony stopped.
> 
> You might also be able to fight on the idea that you had bad representation and then had to represent yourself. Thus were taken advantage of by your ex’s attorney.


No because the agreement specifically says cohabitation will not be a reason to stop alimony. 

She said this when I signed and says it protected both of us but now I see it doesn't because she moved in with him the day or week of our divorce!

She KNEW IT!


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Manchester said:


> She KNEW IT!


Of course she knew it, OP. That's why she had you sign it. Your only hope is if you were under extreme mental duress at the time (were you seeing a shrink at the time? Do you have any mental issues or a diagnosis that a doctor could verify?) and you weren't thinking clearly or in your "right mind", so to speak.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

happy as a clam said:


> Of course she knew it, OP. That's why she had you sign it. Your only hope is if you were under extreme mental duress at the time (were you seeing a shrink at the time? Do you have any mental issues or a diagnosis that a doctor could verify?) and you weren't thinking clearly or in your "right mind", so to speak.


That is a very good question!

I have been to several therapists over the years and ALL of them inferred or outright stated something is wrong with me and even gave me some diagnoses but I don't agree!

Mental illness is largely just a label that allows people to do whatever they want. 

If anything my exwife is the mental case not me!


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Manchester said:


> I have been to several therapists over the years and ALL of them inferred or outright stated something is wrong with me and even gave me some diagnoses...


Well, I'd surely be contacting some of these folks to see if you can get something in writing. It might help you get out of your legal jam.

Whether you agree with them or not is a whole other issue. But it just might save you 48 grand a year.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

happy as a clam said:


> Well, I'd surely be contacting some of these folks to see if you can get something in writing. It might help you get out of your legal jam.


So you are saying that if I can get some of those therapists to write that I am crazy and that's why I can't work I might be able to get out of going to jail because I lost my job and cannot afford to pay support?

It just sounds so twisted.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

We do not have a justice system. We have a legal system. You need to work within the rules of the system in order to get the outcome you desire. You will need to use whatever arguments work for you even if you don't like it. You have to be practical not idealogical to win.

None of us here are qualified to provide you with legal advice, but many can testify from personal experience that you do need a lawyer's help to fight this.

You will be able to find legal assistance of some form if you make an effort. We all have sympathy for your position and hope you can get a fair outcome. But you're the one who needs to put together a plan to locate legal help.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Manchester said:


> So you are saying that if I can get some of those therapists to write that I am crazy and that's why I can't work I might be able to get out of going to jail because I lost my job and cannot afford to pay support?
> 
> It just sounds so twisted.


See my post #40.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> See my post #40.


It says you can't believe I took my ex's word for it.

Have you ever been in love Blondilocks?

It wipes common sense off the charts.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Manchester said:


> So you are saying that if I can get some of those therapists to write that I am crazy and that's why I can't work I might be able to get out of going to jail because I lost my job and cannot afford to pay support?
> 
> It just sounds so twisted.


No, I'm saying if you were documented with mental disorders at the time, you might be able to get that whole divorce decree thrown out. You might be able to prove through multiple diagnoses with multiple shrinks that you were not in your "right mind" when you signed it. Legal documents aren't valid if you're crazy when you sign them.

What diagnoses have you been given, if you don't mind sharing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

See the first paragraph in that post. This is a serious question: do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Are you dyslexic?


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> See the first paragraph in that post. This is a serious question: do you have a problem with reading comprehension? Are you dyslexic?


You mean do I reverse letters? I did in elementary school but I did therapy and then it was ok.

They used to say things like, see this chair? Whether you turn it this way, or that way it's still a chair. But if you take a b and turn it this way it's a d and it means something different altogether.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

happy as a clam said:


> No, I'm saying if you were documented with mental disorders at the time, you might be able to get that whole divorce decree thrown out. You might be able to prove through multiple diagnoses with multiple shrinks that you were not in your "right mind" when you signed it. Legal documents aren't valid if you're crazy when you sign them.
> 
> What diagnoses have you been given, if you don't mind sharing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Different therapists said different things.

One said I was bipolar, another said I was borderline personality disorder another one said I had schizoaffective disorder which is not the same as schizophrenia which some other therapist said I have. Then the last one said I had elements of all of those disorders except not bipolar and maybe not borderline but he wasn't sure and wanted to see me for more tests but I found his suggestions to be discouraging so I didn't go back to him and now I can't afford to go anywhere because of the job loss and high deductables.

I honestly read about mental problems and none of them seem to fit me. Sometimes I feel like I am the only normal one.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Look, the law says people are allowed to enter into unwise agreements, which is what you did.
At the time, when you and your exW are adversaries in court it is not reasonable to believe that anything she or her attorney offered was ever going to be in your best interest. That was not exW job, and definitely not her attorney's job. Being distraught from the divorce, and being bipolar will not excuse this.

Losing your job, happens. Different courts have different standards. My ex was fired for cause from one job, got another and quit. To our divorce court, that was his conduct and he was held responsible. I'm not saying that was what you went through, but know that from a court's point of view, imputing income happens-with good reason.

Reduction of support for a downward economic situation is difficult. First, you have to show that your current situation is different from the time you sign the agreement. Then you have to show it isn't merely temporary. This might be where your state's courts are focused. You have to show what jobs you are qualified to do, where you apply, how many jobs are available in your area. The type of evidence that a court will consider and the amount of evidence that is persuasive is best left to an attorney. I know its not what you want to hear, but there it is. 

And also, take a deep breath. People here are not trying to beat you up and you are very defensive. The less antagonistic your posts are, the more and more people will be willing to offer something that might actually help.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Were you taking any medications at the time you signed the document? 

I gather you do not have any documentation of being treated for depression or seeking help with the suicidal thoughts. You also have no documentation of therapists diagnosing you with any of their suspicions of personality disorders. Is this correct?


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

You say not to be defensive then you say I'm bipolar!

I NEVER said I was bipolar if anything I am the NORMAL one.

One or two therapists said I was based on only 1 or 2 visits and another said I had elements of both but that's what they are supposed to do. Create diagnosis- bill insurance company- make next weeks appointment.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Were you taking any medications at the time you signed the document?


No I wasn't taking medications because I am PERFECTLY NORMAL!!!!

Why does everyone I talk to here and offline say I need to be on medication??

In answer to your other question do I have documentation I have NO documentation and even if I called the therapists and asked them for what their notes say it won't be that helpful they were just guessing there was something amiss with my head even though they have no PROOF.

I made a mistake. That is all. That does not make someone a nutcase.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

No one said you were a nutcase
No one said you NEED to be on medication

You supplied some information and we responded.
Good luck, I'm out.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, okey dokey. In the words of the immortal Forrest Gump - stupid is as stupid does.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Now I'm stupid.

Thank you for your kind words of support and encouragement.

I wonder what the next person will say.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Manchester said:


> I put in my state and it is the exact same as Florida.
> 
> Job loss is not considered permanent because hey you can always get a new job!
> 
> ...


This is why I said take a job in the same or a related field that makes less. If you tell the court you simply aren't working, they're going to assume you can get another job making the same amount of money or close to it. If you tell the court you lost your position due to downsizing, you are working again, but making less, then they will adjust the alimony according to your new income.



Manchester said:


> No because the agreement specifically says cohabitation will not be a reason to stop alimony.
> 
> She said this when I signed and says it protected both of us but now I see it doesn't because she moved in with him the day or week of our divorce!
> 
> She KNEW IT!


You said the agreement stated that cohabitation by either party wouldn't effect alimony. She was actually correct if that is the case.

Since cohabitation is so common, many states use total household income and expenses to set payments. If you you were working, met a woman who had a decent income of her own, and you moved in together, your exW could have asked for an increase in alimony based on your total household income increasing. And she would probably have gotten it. The agreement actually does protect you both from support increases or decreased due to cohabitation.



Manchester said:


> You say not to be defensive then you say I'm bipolar!
> 
> I NEVER said I was bipolar if anything I am the NORMAL one.
> 
> One or two therapists said I was based on only 1 or 2 visits and another said I had elements of both but that's what they are supposed to do. Create diagnosis- bill insurance company- make next weeks appointment.


Frankly, who cares if you're a complete nutter or not? Do what you have to do to get proof of a serious mental disorder and use that in court to either reduce the current support order or eliminate it altogether on the grounds you were not mentally competent when you signed the divorce agreement without representation.



Manchester said:


> Now I'm stupid.
> 
> Thank you for your kind words of support and encouragement.
> 
> I wonder what the next person will say.


I say go to the local department of community health or social services center and ask for help getting in to a psychiatrist free or low cost. Get a documented diagnosis of mental incompetency. Make sure it states that the mental illness has been present since before the divorce decree was signed. Take that to legal aid and get back into court. Try to have the initial agreement tossed based on the grounds you weren't sane when you signed.

There is a LOT more help available for those who have mental disorders. Including legal help.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

So I'm not stupid at least for the part about cohabitation not affecting alimony.

Thank you that makes me feel better but I do care if I'm considered to be mentally ill.


----------



## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

This thread is out of control. The only think you need to do is talk to an attorney. If there is a question to whether you have emotional or other issues, talk to a therapist. If you can't afford it, look into government assistance programs. Keep yourself in control.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Easy for you to say you are not facing unemployment, jail time, bankruptcy, loss of the love of your children and your wife.

Well you probably aren't. I don't know your situation.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Manchester said:


> So I'm not stupid at least for the part about cohabitation not affecting alimony.
> 
> Thank you that makes me feel better but I do care if I'm considered to be mentally ill.


Being considered mentally ill could possibly get you out of this mess if you played it right in court. If you're dead set on trying to have the agreement thrown out based on mental incompetency when it was signed, then you'll have to take any job you can get and go back to court to have the alimony decreased based on reduced income. Make sure you have proof your previous position was eliminated through no fault of your own and that you diligently tried to find employment at the same income level.


----------



## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

If you just want to b!tch, tell us and we'll stop giving advice. You really need a good attorney. If he can argue diminished capacity, there is a good chance you can get a better deal. Diminished capacity isn't mentally ill, it means your x took advantage of you in a condition that she at least partially caused. 

You can't do that without an attorney. I do doubt they will jail you for not paying alimony, but they may for child support, so make sure you pay that. 

You can ask @EleGirl to move this to the private section, and it won't be searchable. 

If you won't take any action, nothing will change.


----------



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Yes you *can* get a free consultation from an attorney in your area. I've done it many times before. If you try and aren't having any luck, you can always try contacting attorneys in the states bordering your state and ask them if they are licensed to practice in your state. Many attorneys will give you between 10-30 minutes (even up to an hour in some cases) for free. So don't kid yourself. 

As for landing in jail for non-payment of support...

From what I can tell, you live in a state that has been in the process of revamping it's _antiquated_ domestic laws (child support, alimony, custody, guardianship, etc.) for several years. Some of the laws have already changed and more is expected in the near future. 

Throwing an ex-spouse in jail for non-payment of alimony/child support is a _last resort_, even in your state. Unless the ex-spouse (you) "...willfully fails to provide support which he (you) *can* provide *and* which he knows he is legally obliged to provide to a spouse..." he can end up in jail. 

But jail time isn't _mandatory_, especially for a first offense of contempt of court. The courts _do_ have a lot of discretion.

Right now, you need to take *MASSIVE* ACTION. If it means driving a cab or taking on two jobs (even if both jobs don't come near to what you were making before) AND sending out resumes AND getting a little less sleep for a while, it's something that you have to do. 

Pay your wife _something_. It will look better to a judge, if this goes to court. 

You have the world at your fingertips (internet). All it takes is some action on your part and you will get through this. May not be overnight, but you _will_.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Ok so I took everybody's advice and I went to the website of Cordell and Cordell and they do in fact offer a free consultation. It says right on their page "How can we help?".

So I emailed them a summary and they got back to me within 15 minutes! They said someone will review my case and get back to me. That's incredible that I got such a fast response I'm starting to feel somewhat optimistic.


----------



## Camper292000 (Nov 7, 2015)

Hang in there. Do all you can. Interview multiple lawyers. Get any job..... Just keep trying and do stop and take a deep breath and eat and get enough sleep.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Thank you I haven't been sleeping well I keep dreaming I'm in jail and I'm in there with all these big tough guys who are treating me like some sort of commodity to be traded amongst them for perverse enjoyment. 

I wake up in a sweat and I find some relief in it being only a dream but I also realize it could be my eventual reality.


----------



## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

(1) You are not skilled in law in your location, nor are you a specialist in the areas of law you will need to know about.
(2) No one on this site can give you legal advice over the Internet, no one over the Internet can listen and understand your case well enough to give you legal advice, you are unable to form a legal contract in the forums that fits to the rules of legal client-attorney relationship; anyone giving you advice has either no responsibility past a generic random opinion or could be held legally responsible for presenting a legal opinion (aka "practicing law") without licence and outside their jurisprudence.

(3) You wish to "overturn" a previous contract, or possibly seek forceful termination of an existing "unfair" contract. One with relationship law (vs business law) specialties. The Acts and Statutes for relationship law can be quite specific in how you can act, what you can contest and when, who can represent you, and what grounds certain areas can be contested. Only someone familiar with the law in your location, your ex-partner's location, and the place where the original argements were stamped by the Courts, has the ability to advise or give a professional opinion on your situation.

(4) You need to get control of yourself.
(5) Any instability, impatience, or imagined impropriety will instantly lose the Courts favor. Courts decisions are _not_ about what you think is right or wrong or fair, nor are they always about the wording of the Law. The judge(s) (or sitting decision maker, in some courtrooms) is first and foremost a Member of Court, and Officer of that Court, and the Member of a Worshipful Profession - upset them or put them in a place which reflects badly on their position, and you will instantly lose your case. Act too upset or inappropriate (and it doesn't even have to be rude) and you could even find yourself in contempt (and jailed), and contempt charges can continue indefinitely.

(6) You will need to be completely honest and factual with your attorney or you will lose the case. This is "the full story" facts, not just how you think they sound best, or why you think you should get your way. There is "your story", "her story", and "the real story" - you need to give your attorney enough so he knows "the real story".

(7) As previously mentioned, you have already proven that you were not up to the task in the previous hearings. You are going to need legal advice if you don't want to repeat the mistake - remember "double jeopardy", you can't keep trying to overturn it, you get one shot at this, otherwise the Court will decide "the matter has already been seen", and deny you out of hand, or even fine you for being a nuisance if you keep trying repeatedly to challenge decisions. Remember Appeals are at the _Courts_ discretion and aren't your right; and only address whether the Court and Judge did things "according to the rules", you can't appeal the judgment itself.

(8) Most legal firms will allow a small amount of time with a new client/case, often with a junior lawyer, for you to describe your case (briefly) and they will advise you your next step. Some local free "community law" centers exist, or Citizen Advice Bureau's, for free they will hear the _outline_ of your case, and advise you of someone to see in that area. Actually getting someone to sit through and hear your case will be expensive, even more so when they file with the Court to have a judge consider breaking/overturning any existing contract. 
Which is why it is so important to get it right the first time.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Thank you for your advice!

I will hopefully hear from them today and I will give them a full unabridged summary including how I took the law into my own hands so to speak.

It's hard to keep it together knowing that at this time next year I might be making these posts from a prison library.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I like your post in another thread "Sorry but that's just BS right there. "


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I also wanted to add that since I didn't pay the support this month- for the first time EVER it's ALWAYS paid by the 1st for over 10 years without fail, now she is blowing up my phone calling and texting and yelling and screaming in messages and angry texts with mad smiley faces.

I ignored until I finally said "What part of "I don't have a job and I don't have any money don't you get you FAT SMELLY CHEATING LYING B*TCH!"

That made it even worse I know but I just lost it.


----------



## LadybugMomma (Apr 28, 2016)

I'd hire a lawyer. I know you're not trusting of them, but you did it without to start and where did that get you? My husbands ex opted out of child support in their divorce, it's written right in the agreement. She filed a complaint stating that there has been a substantial amount of change in the amount of time he sees his children. The amount of time he sees them is what THEY agreed on three years ago. There is no visitation schedule written up, just whatever they decide on and now she's going after him for that excuse alone. We hired a lawyer and are fighting it. 

My point is, there has been a substantial change in your income. It seems impractical to think that something can't be modified regardless of what you signed off on. If it were, then I don't think my husbands ex would have even gotten a court date, if that were the case. I know though, that it's different is each state.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I don't trust lawyers at all that is true.

I plan to listen to what they tell me during the free meeting and I may or may not hire them or I may or may not just use what they tell me to plan my own strategy when I go back to court. 

Just because I made a big mistake once doesn't mean I will do worse if I represent myself all the lawyers will do is say the same things I can say- the agreement was unfair, it was made under duress and it significantly differs from state laws. Plus anything else they tell me they would say.

It's not really that complicated!


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

I always love your avatars. This is a good one.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Do an internet search on Forum Avatars.

The one I am using is 2/3 down the second page. 

You find one you like and then copy it's web address into the place in your profile under "avatar" or you download it to your computer and then upload it in the place where it says "browse".

It's very easy to do this even for people that are intimidated by computers such as yourself.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Manchester said:


> Just because I made a big mistake once doesn't mean I will do worse if I represent myself all the lawyers will do is say the same things I can say- the agreement was unfair, it was made under duress and it significantly differs from state laws. Plus anything else they tell me they would say.
> 
> It's not really that complicated!


Actually it is a lot more complicated than that. They know the magic insiders' terminology. They know what to say, when to say it, and how to say it. They know how to rebut the other side's arguments. When your ex-w's lawyer uses some fancy jargon to argue not to change anything, you will have no idea whatsoever how to answer it. A real lawyer would know to say "According to Smith V Jones this argument clearly does not apply to 
this particular case because of X, Y, and Z".

Now a crappy lawyer isn't going to be as good as a slick lawyer, but you're not a lawyer at all. That puts you below the crappy lawyer on the scale of knowledge, experience, judgement, and technique.

Also, I think you are at a psychological disadvantage showing up without a lawyer. The judge is going to immediately think less of your judgement and intellect. Your ex is going to have a substantial advantage just from that alone.

Court has nothing to do with fairness, logic, what is morally right, or your unique circumstances. Court is a serious game which is won by those who know the rules and manipulate the argument best.

You should know better by now from your first experience with representing yourself.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Thor said:


> The judge is going to immediately think less of your judgement and intellect. .


I plan to tell the judge that I wanted to get a lawyer, I plan to remind the judge I HAD an attorney but now I simply cannot afford one. 

The judge will probably realize it's true, I don't have the money so why would he throw me in jail for not paying as opposed to if I am paying for an attorney then I obviously have money!


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Because there is likely some form of free legal aid available to you. Be prepared to show him how you have availed yourself of every possible avenue before you show up naked in court. Really you are going to get your a$$ handed to you by your ex's lawyer. You're probably better off not even bringing the appeal because once you lose it you can't ever try again. You'd better win this time around. Going naked is not the way to win.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Thor said:


> *Because there is likely some form of free legal aid available to you*. Be prepared to show him how you have availed yourself of every possible avenue before you show up naked in court. Really you are going to get your a$$ handed to you by your ex's lawyer. You're probably better off not even bringing the appeal because once you lose it you can't ever try again. You'd better win this time around. Going naked is not the way to win.


This actually depends a lot on where he lives. In our area, funding is low and legal aid won't touch a divorce or support case. They only handle criminal cases and housing/utility cases.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Thor said:


> Because there is likely some form of free legal aid available to you. Be prepared to show him how you have availed yourself of every possible avenue before you show up naked in court. Really you are going to get your a$$ handed to you by your ex's lawyer. You're probably better off not even bringing the appeal because once you lose it you can't ever try again. You'd better win this time around. Going naked is not the way to win.


From what I've read- and I've read lots I forgot to mention at the courthouse there's a library downstairs for public use and it has TONS of legal briefs and reference materials and there's people that work there that when you tell them what you need they direct you to the appropriate literature. There's also a cafeteria down there with surprisingly good food which helps when you are there for hours reading boring law journals. Its specifically for people that are trying to work their own cases and I will tell you that a motivated person can do at least as well as most attorneys. It's not the degree it's the amount of work you do finding similar cases which is what the judges go by and I also know that it's not an appeal it's a modification and that can be done again and again but not from jail that's for sure.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Your last post sounds like you want to go try your hand in the courtroom again, but that you are going to be better informed and do a little more research this time.

I hope not. Prepare yourself to be bent over and take it again.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

It depends on how much they will charge me and if they'll wait to be paid over time- a long time or better yet if I win can they get my exwife to pay their fees. 

It's not like I have a choice here. 

If it comes down to lets say "buy frozen dinner" so I can survive or "pay part of attorney bill" to maybe make a better impression on a judge, which would you choose?


----------



## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Manchester said:


> I don't trust lawyers at all that is true.
> 
> I plan to listen to what they tell me during the free meeting and I may or may not hire them or I may or may not just use what they tell me to plan my own strategy when I go back to court.
> 
> ...


The best I can tell you is that you are still messed up in your thinking, and will continue to make errors. The irrationality of your posts like the one above display that clearly.

Look at the more harsh comments here and force yourself to accept the bitter medicine they provide. Take it, do what they advise.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Manchester said:


> Do an internet search on Forum Avatars.
> 
> The one I am using is 2/3 down the second page.
> 
> ...


You still use a computer? Jeez.


----------



## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

I have seen your posts on a couple of different online forums. Lots of good advice has given to you.

And you continue to antagonize those people trying to help you. It seems like you are all over the place mentally and emotionally, and as a result lash out uncontrollably. I would recommend you see a therapist just to try and get your head in a good place. How can you go to court if you can't control yourself? 

The family court system is not about what is right or wrong, it is about who plays the better game with the law. You got your a$$ kicked going at it alone. A smart man learns from their mistake. If you are not a troll, listen and use the advice given to you. You screwed yourself signing a document that you didn't understand and have been paying for it dearly. Now you need a competent attorney to try and unfvck the situation. Why is that so hard for you?


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

C3156 said:


> It seems like you are all over the place mentally and emotionally, and as a result lash out uncontrollably. I would recommend you see a therapist just to try and get your head in a good place.


:iagree: He should go back to one of his previous counselors/therapists (he has several) and see if they can help him sort out his issues. It may also lend some credence to his legal case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@Manchester

I'd eat Ramen to afford a lawyer and let a couple of therapists make me out to be a totally incompetent raving loon if it would get me out of paying $48k a year.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I'm already eating Ramen and I still can't afford a lawyer.

Well I've now got a scheduled free consultation this week I will keep you all posted on what they say.


----------



## delta88 (Mar 9, 2015)

Double post


----------



## delta88 (Mar 9, 2015)

Manchester said:


> I'm already eating Ramen and I still can't afford a lawyer.
> 
> Well I've now got a scheduled free consultation this week I will keep you all posted on what they say.


You are in a similar situation as myself in the sense if we take the position if helpless victims but that is not reality. You have the power to enact change on your life and when I put myself into the helpless role, things go to hell quickly.

Listen to the posted advice Manchester. I'd rather have people tell me like like it is than live an alternate reality. These people are trying to help you and taking time out if their lives to do such. Be thankful my good man, I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

The upside to you representing your self again is that a little jail time may help get your head straightened out.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I was served with papers for contempt of court because I am a whole 2 weeks late in support payments after an unblemished track record.

The case will be heard next week. 

Am a bit concerned because it's in front of the same judge, who admonished me for self representation and sort of warned me that if he sees me in his courtroom again I might not be going home that day but I saw it as an empty threat because what can he do to me but now things are a bit different.

Based on my understanding of this sort of thing I plan to file a "cross motion" to modify support which essentially will say "not only do I disagree with her contempt for nonpayment but furthermore I request a decrease in my support to ZERO due to job loss out of my control".

As you may suspect I did not learn anything from the attorney consultation I didn't know before other than retainer fees are going up.


----------



## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Judges do not like people who represent themselves because they usually don't know what they're doing even if they spend most of their downtime in the public law library and consider themselves to be experts in the field. It's a waste of their time, which they value highly, and you've been told this by the only person who counts.

To go in there -again- without representation; is to say the least, rather foolish. 

Of course if you REALLY have no money then I guess you have no choice except maybe to stall long enough to get free legal aid or something of that nature.


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Manchester said:


> I was served with papers for contempt of court because I am a whole 2 weeks late in support payments after an unblemished track record.
> 
> The case will be heard next week.
> 
> ...


How do you feel about Central America? Did you know for about $25,000 a year you could live like a KING there? A KING. You want my advice? 

Sell everything you have, get on a plane to Ecuador, or some other country with piss poor extradition laws and tell your exwife to go to hell.

This is a serious suggestion. What do you have to lose? You are old, unemployed, and about to head into debtor's prison because your ex conned you.

You could also scoop up a traditional woman, half your age, no problem. They love "rich" Americans. If you can scrap together $25k in retirement, you're golden.

You know the best part? TAM also works on Ecuadorian internet too! It'll be like you never left. Comprende amigo?


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Does your payment include both alimony and child support? You've been divorced a decade so how old are your children?

For the love of God, do not represent yourself! Borrow money from family or friends or put it on a credit card.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

The kids are older the alimony is the big problem here.

I discovered I can borrow against my 401k. Not wasting that hard earned money on lazy incompetent lawyers. I plan to do that and hand her a big fat check for the overdue alimony and also next month in advance just to show I'm a standup guy in front of the judge who will then hopefully rule in my favor and that will be my last 2 support payments I will be ordered to pay. EVER.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're dreaming. You know that don't you?


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

How are you going to pay back your 401k?

Note: You will have to pay income taxes plus penalties on those withdrawals from your 401k.

You're screwing yourself ever more with each step. Good luck, as you seem to know it all and what is best.


----------



## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

Dude after you have your day in court and the judge drops all of your exwife's charges and you're no longer paying alimony you can generate additional income by advising other people how to win their cases without paying for useless expensive pesky attorneys.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Since I have received no useful advice here, I will not be adding to this thread only to say that I am as prepared as I can possibly be for next weeks court appearance and I expect to walk out of there with no support obligation after providing her with 2 support checks borrowed from my 401k.

If anyone cares I will post the outcome when I get home on Wednesday otherwise that's it.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I couldn't help but check in to see how you were doing. 

Look, you may or may not be able to change to support obligation.
The court has ABSOLUTE authority to hold you in contempt for disregarding its order, whether you succeed in modifying the order or not. So even if you can get relief from the order, that goes from the date of the hearing, forward. It is irrelevant to the issue of contempt. Paying the past due support will likely avoid contempt, but none of us are the judge you say you have already annoyed (imagine that).

401K's are all different. Some, like mine, allow a loan rather than a straight withdrawal, that you have to repay within 60 months. So its possible to take a loan without incurring the penalties and interest of a flat early withdrawal. I hope that's what you are doing.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Pluto2 said:


> I couldn't help but check in to see how you were doing.


You make it sound like it's the second to last thing you want to do in the entire world. 

The 401k withdrawal is a loan. I am borrowing from the 401k.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Pluto2 said:


> 401K's are all different. Some, like mine, allow a loan rather than a straight withdrawal, that you have to repay within 60 months. So its possible to take a loan without incurring the penalties and interest of a flat early withdrawal. I hope that's what you are doing.


A 401K loan repayment must be made on time or it is considered a withdrawal. This is where people get into trouble. They have no income so they borrow from the 401k, but then they end up owing the IRS for penalties and taxes on the money when they can't make the loan payments.

I borrowed from my 401k to buy my condo during the divorce. So I am not categorically opposed to 401k loans. People just have to realize if the situation goes sideways on them, the penalties are far worse than a late Visa card payment. OP has no job, how is he going to make payments on the loan?

Eta: A late or missed payment puts the entire amount as a distribution. The plan will specify how often payments are made. Mine are made each and every paycheck but I believe they are due once per month. A plan may specify quarterly. Anyhow, when a payment is missed, the entire loan goes into default. By IRS rules, that entire amount becomes a taxable distribution. Penalties are due for the early distribution, as well as income tax on the distribution. Then, if one is unable to pay those taxes, the IRS starts adding more penalties and interest on the overdue taxes! This is how people get destroyed by their 401k loan.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Very good advice, Thor. With ours, no "loans" are permitted unless the owner is currently employed and the payments are automatically withheld from pay. Everything else is treated as a withdrawal. I'm not sure that complies with the tax rules, but its how the company functions.

When my ex left, he cashed in his 401K to live on (idiot boy). Of course he didn't factor in the taxes and penalties, and sadly, we were still married. So, I filed separately that year and he hasn't filed taxes since.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Manchester said:


> You make it sound like it's the second to last thing you want to do in the entire world.
> 
> The 401k withdrawal is a loan. I am borrowing from the 401k.


geez. no need to return now.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Manchester said:


> Since I have received no useful advice here, I will not be adding to this thread only to say that I am as prepared as I can possibly be for next weeks court appearance and I expect to walk out of there with no support obligation after providing her with 2 support checks borrowed from my 401k.
> 
> If anyone cares I will post the outcome when I get home on Wednesday otherwise that's it.


You haven't posted since the day before your court date. Curious minds want to know - did the judge throw you into the slammer for contempt?


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> You haven't posted since the day before your court date. Curious minds want to know - did the judge throw you into the slammer for contempt?


His last activity was on 10-25, so that could be possible. He was posting furiously, then just stopped.


----------



## txcouple903 (Sep 29, 2012)

He should have gotten a lawyer. I got my lawyer through a legal aid firm. I won my case. My ex wife got her lawyer too late in the game. 

I understand he had bad experiences with lawyers but it's the only way to go. I had the best lawyer in my county for divorces and my wife had the second best. She had to pay for hers and mine was free. She has to pay child support and I didn't ask for alimony and she didn't either. 

Getting a lawyer is always better then going at it alone. I don't trust lawyers either but you can't go into court alone if your opponent has one. 

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

Well I'm back. After a 30 day stint in the local lockup, filled with drug addicts, guys who committed assault or domestic violence, robbers, psychopaths, you name it. There were even people in there convicted of armed robbery. For a local lockup there were some BAD people in there and the experiences I had will haunt me for the rest of my natural life. You'd think they'd have put me in with other nonviolent offenders but either the jail system is messed up or there's no room they just don't care what happens to non criminal, law abiding citizens such as myself who have gotten into a bit of trouble by no fault of their own. Possibly the judge had it in for me and wanted to teach me a lesson. I did some more research while I was in there and discovered most judges HATE people who represent themselves because we supposedly don't know the proper procedures which of course I most certainly DO. He was not happy to see me back in his courtroom, his first words to me were "You again? What did I tell you would happen if I saw you in my courtroom again, especially without a lawyer?!".

I stood my ground and told him that 1- It is every American's constitutional right to defend themselves as they see fit and 2- I am not going to be bullied by someone who thinks they can say and do whatever they want just because they wear a black robe and hold a little wooden hammer that couldn't even drive a nail into a 2x4 and 3- I was misled into signing an unfair agreement and 4- I have no ongoing means to pay although I have a check right here from my retirement account to pay the arrears. 

The judge looked at me and said "Is that all you have to say for yourself?". I had a sudden feeling of forboding that things would not go well, I shot a glance at my exwife and her attorney who looked so damn smug and then the judge said "30 days in lockup and if you come here again because you're in arrears it's going to be at least double that amount of time!. Hand the check to the bailiff." 

The judge summons the bailiff to the bench, whispers in his ear, the bailiff comes over, takes my check, handcuffed me and pulled me out of the courtroom and I was ultimately brought right to the jail without any opportunity to put my affairs in order. I tried to protest that I live alone and have no one to attend to my matters but my words fell on deaf ears.

They took all my personal items, subjected me to a very unpleasant body cavity search as if I was some sort of danger and I spend the next month among some horrible individuals that seem to make being in jail some sort of a game or power trip and I was honestly shocked at the way I was treated and how the guards turned a blind eye. 

I was so looking forward to getting home and as soon as I opened the door to my apartment the stench hit me. The poor cat tried to claw it's way out under the door and actually did a fairly good job of it but didn't quite make it. She was hard as a rock and frozen in her last position, with one claw in front of the other as if she just gave up in the middle of trying. I didn't mean to laugh but the cat looked so funny frozen like that I giggled hysterically for about 10 minutes but my mood was more somber when I discovered all my tropical fish were dead and the water so cloudy you couldn't even see to the back of the fish tank.

Now I have to think about how to handle matters going forward. Job prospects are non existent, I'm in the negative in my bank accounts and the only money I have left is in my 401k. I could give her the support out of that but I don't think I'm going to give in to the pressure. I'm going to sue the courts for a change of judge due to personal bias and just dislike. They have no right to just throw you in jail with no warning.


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

I'm so angry about how your animals died an awful death. There was NOONE that could have helped them!!!!????????????????????????????????

I have probably already shed more tears for your pets than you have.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> I'm so angry about how your animals died an awful death. There was NOONE that could have helped them!!!!????????????????????????????????
> 
> I have probably already shed more tears for your pets than you have.


I was in jail and experienced horrible experiences that will scar me for life and probably render me incapable of having a normal sexual relationship ever again, and you're shedding tears for a damn CAT?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You received good advice here, advice that would have kept you out of the lockup... you know, the advice to get a lawyer. And at least if you cannot afford a lawyer, don't say crap to the judge. Geez

Your little tirade at the judge is what got you in jail. What makes you think that it's ok to attack a judge that way?


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

How sad that this could likely have even avoided if you'd treated your ex wife like a human being.

I hope the entitlement and nasty name calling was worth it.

Based on your treatment of your ex wife and the way you spoke to the judge, you either have an issue with women or are just not a very nice person.

You should get some help for that or your life is going to continue to be miserable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You received good advice here, advice that would have kept you out of the lockup... you know the advice to get a lawyer. And at least if you cannot afford a lawyer, don't say crap to the judge. Geez
> 
> Your little tirade at the judge is what got you in jail. What makes you think that it's ok to attack a judge that way?


4th amendment FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

The advice here would not have kept me out of jail I don't need advice I need MONEY.

You have any job searching tips for an excon who is deeply in the red?



lifeistooshort said:


> You should get some help for that or your life is going to continue to be miserable.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here I am thinking things are looking up and you have to be such a downer.


----------



## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

There is no one in your life that could have given the cat some food and water a few times a week? Were you not permitted to make even one phone call in 30 days?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

zookeeper said:


> There is no one in your life that could have given the cat some food and water a few times a week? Were you not permitted to make even one phone call in 30 days?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was in JAIL with a bunch of bad asses and walking around in a state of shock for a month while you were out living your normal life and eating regular food and not being assaulted by inmates. Suffice it to say the well being of a cat was not upfront in my mind. In fact it didn't even cross my mind until the smell of rotting flesh hit me as I walked in the door and I was like.."oh crap' this is going to be messy.


----------



## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Manchester said:


> I was in JAIL with a bunch of bad asses and walking around in a state of shock for a month while you were out living your normal life and eating regular food and not being assaulted by inmates. Suffice it to say the well being of a cat was not upfront in my mind. In fact it didn't even cross my mind until the smell of rotting flesh hit me as I walked in the door and I was like.."oh crap' this is going to be messy.


I can't tell if that is a yes or no to either question I asked.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I could have called someone yes.

I had no one to call. 

So I didn't.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Manchester said:


> I could have called someone yes.
> 
> I had no one to call.
> 
> So I didn't.


I would have assumed you have lots of friends.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

zookeeper said:


> There is no one in your life that could have given the cat some food and water a few times a week? Were you not permitted to make even one phone call in 30 days?


Jails/prisons, etc all allow inmates to make phone calls. Sadly I know about this due to a stepson who is out of control.

The ones here use a system called Securus. A person can set up an account and put money it so that the inmate can call them. Or an inmate can call anyone and the Securus system will allow them to uses a card (credit or ATM) to pay for a call. Most local calls are about 90 cents for a 15 minute call.

Inmates can make calls at just about any time. My stepson has called me 4 or 5 times a day when he's in lockup. 

So yea, the OP could have called someone to save the poor cat a horrific death.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Manchester said:


> I could have called someone yes.
> 
> I had no one to call.
> 
> So I didn't.


Do you rent your place? You could have called your land lord.

You could have called your ex to tell her that the cat would starve to death. Surely she could call your landlord, animal control or someone else.

You could have asked another inmate to call someone to get help for the cat.

When my stepson has been in the clink, he's called me to get me to help with issues for some of the other guys in there. I'm careful how and who I would help, but I've done it.

What inmate call service does the place use? YOu might want to open an account and put a few bucks in it for the next time you end up on there. Or set up with someone to do that for you if you get locked up again.

Plus, if you have no friends or support system to you need to build one. It's time to start that now.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh, and Walmart and other retailers are hiring for Christmas. It's not the best job in the work but it'll bring in some money.

My understanding is that Sam's Club and Costco are hiring too. And they pay more than minimum wage.

You are not a felon. So you should have no problem getting a job.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> I would have assumed you have lots of friends.


You would have assumed wrong, it's a good thing you didn't.



EleGirl said:


> Do you rent your place? You could have called your land lord.
> 
> You could have called your ex to tell her that the cat would starve to death. Surely she could call your landlord, animal control or someone else.
> 
> You could have asked another inmate to call someone to get help for the cat.


Shoulda coulda woulda.

That's no help to me now or to the cat of course. 



EleGirl said:


> Or set up with someone to do that for you if you get locked up again.


There won't be a next time. The judge was obviously biased and way out of line. I'm already working on the draft of my next filing motion and this one is gonna stick. Don't be surprised if the judge makes the same jailhouse friends I did.



EleGirl said:


> Oh, and Walmart and other retailers are hiring for Christmas


I need permanent skilled employment not "Hello welcome to Walmart".


----------



## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Manchester said:


> I could have called someone yes.
> 
> I had no one to call.
> 
> So I didn't.


Ok. I have no beef with you, so I hope that for your sake you can try a little self reflection. 

You have no one to call. Maybe you should figure out why that is and take some steps to change that sad fact. 

Perhaps the same thing that makes the judge unsympathetic towards you keeps other people away too. You seem to think that you are a victim, and maybe you are - a victim of yourself.

Laughing at the sight of your dead pet who clearly suffered a prolonged and agonizing death is not the behavior of someone with the ability to empathize. I'd suggest you look there first. 

FYI: Life is not something that happens to you, it is what you make of it. You seem to want to blame the world and everyone else in it for the situation you find yourself in. You won't get very far thinking that way. Actually, you'll probably get yourself thrown right back in jail with more of the people you think are beneath you. You've been given some solid advice here and presumably in other places as well. You chose to ignore and most likely will continue to do so. After all, no matter how many times you have been proven wrong, you must have been right, right? 

If you truly have no connection to anyone else in your life, why not take the earlier advice to just disappear into the wilderness or some other remote place?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I cannot believe you went into this YET AGAIN without an attorney! Then had the audacity to spout off at the judge?? And NO, that judge was NOT biased or out of line! Stop representing yourself and find representation! Not sure why you think you are above the system or above working at Walmart! 

Your poor cat.


----------



## Síocháin (Mar 11, 2016)

Now I truly understand who you are and whatever comes your way now will be of your own doing.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Dang! Not even a whiff of 'scared straight'. Just more puffery. May as well buy yourself a puffy shirt.


----------



## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

And there he goes, a lesson unlearned.

The path is hard for this one...


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

:banned2:

I was going to suggest he got a job in construction - bridge repair. Lots of that needed where I am and pays well. And he could probably find a job close to home.


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

This reminds me of one of my favorite lines from the movies... 

"Stupid is as stupid does." Forrest Gump


----------



## Grapes (Oct 21, 2016)

is this real? this seems so unbelievable.


----------



## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

I asked myself the same thing when I was assaulted by a group of hispanics in a storage room with the handles of various janitorial implements.

The thought that kept going through my head was "This cannot be real, this cannot be my life".

But you know what? 

It can happen to you.

It's all about meeting the wrong person and making a few mistakes along the way.


----------

