# Talking to a man - do's and don'ts?



## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

I have a question to all the men.

I want to talk with my husband about some stuff. Most likely not this weekend but the next one.

Could you give some advice?

Like 

1) do not complain about him 
2) ???
3) ???

Do you think it is a good idea to get myself dolled-up?

Edit: My husband is a Veteran - not a veterinarian.


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

Depending on what do you want to accomplish, the strategy are different for each case. Usually men will respond positively if your request are packaged in a way that relates to his needs (I.e, if you do X, then I will be able to do the Y that you like so much)

This is an example.

This way:

"Honey, I want to make special dinner just for you tonight, you gonna love it.. But we are out of the ingredients.. could you take me shopping?"

Is much better than:

"All of the ingredients are out, and I am too tired to walk to the supermarket. If you want dinner, do the right thing and drive me there!"


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

deleted


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Men like to be direct and simple. 

You can always get his attention when you say" "honey, it makes me very happy when you do _________. If he truly wants to make you happy, he will store this info in his brain, and use it in the future to make you happy.

Don't complain and criticize. This only causes men to become defensive and put up walls. This takes you backwards instead of forward. 

Don't say...."you ALWAYS do this, or you NEVER do that". Take these exaggerated phrases out of your vocabulary and never use them. They lessen your message whenever you say them.

Be positive, honest, and direct. Don't play games and be clear on what you want so HE is clear on what you need. Don't use excessing crying to get him to do something. Men see right thru that. It is manipulation.

Don't unload a lot of "stuff" on him the minute he comes home. Give him time to unwind first. Timing is always important.

I hope this helps.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Yep, direct and simple.

During that time you are beating around the bush and not getting to it, my mind is rolling through all those possibilities of where you are trying to take this conversation. That means I'm already preparing a defense and lacing up the gloves.

Just get to it first. Then have the conversation. I actually have to interrupt my wife a lot and say "Subject, context." as she tends to skip over that and begins to describe things I can't put into context or what subject she's talking about.

Example. "You know that blue skirt I have? The one I wore to _______(ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh)____ " <== the static that overwhelms my brain as I start tuning you out and pondering where the hell this conversations is going to go. Is this a fat talk, or maybe she wants a date to the opera again, or about her friends we went with, or maybe she wants to go shopping for shoes to match, or maybe there's a presidential stain.... "Please dear, continue to baffle me with all the potentials of where you are going with this".

"I want us to go to the opera again." Simple, direct. Tells me what you want. Then we can talk about plans or what I would rather do or why or ____. But now I know what we are talking about.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Seriously?! Having to sugar coat how you talk to a man b/c his feelings might get hurt is just as bad as feminism! If a man can't hear a straightforward request without getting defensive, tuning you out, shutting you down, etc., then he's not a man, he's a mouse. When did men become such pussies!?!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

ebp123 said:


> Seriously?! Having to sugar coat how you talk to a man b/c his feelings might get hurt is just as bad as feminism! If a man can't hear a straightforward request without getting defensive, tuning you out, shutting you down, etc., then he's not a man, he's a mouse. When did men become such pussies!?!


Where did that come from? The way you've responded is a good example of how not to talk to another person and expect them to actually listen or care one bit.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Racer said:


> Where did that come from? The way you've responded is a good example of how not to talk to another person and expect them to actually listen or care one bit.



It came as a reaction to all of the posts together. Here is some of the advice in this thread about how to talk to a man:

- Get all dolled up
- Compliment him first/tell him how happy he makes you
- Don't beat around the bush (or I will ignore you, and that's just a man thing and that's perfectly fine and not disrespectful at all)
- Don't cry
- Don't talk too long or your words will become like static
- Package your words in a way that relates to his needs

The basic message is, don't take too long, don't cry, don't use too many words, and look attractive while doing it. How disrespectful.

And would you give the same advice to your guy friend about how to talk to his woman!?!? Phrase it in a way that relates to HER needs? 

Good grief!


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## Stonewall (Jul 5, 2011)

ebp123 said:


> It came as a reaction to all of the posts together. Here is some of the advice in this thread about how to talk to a man:
> 
> - Get all dolled up
> - Compliment him first/tell him how happy he makes you
> ...



Yes I absolutely would and I do. Because I'm smart enough to stop and think; how is going to fall on her ears once it leaves my mouth. 

I am far more interested in results than how I can stroke my ego about how tough I am. 

I work with those kinds of guys everyday and none of them have had a marriage that lasted the test of time.

Mine has!


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

betulanana said:


> I have a question to all the men.
> 
> I want to talk with my husband about some stuff. Most likely not this weekend but the next one.
> 
> ...





betulanana said:


> I'll give you some more info.
> 
> My husband is a Vet + I want him to a) meet up with other Vets + b) see a therapist.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I'm a bloke (man), so you'll have to forgive me for not having a clue what you're on about.

Why not tell us what you're asking, then we can try to give helpful answers.

When you say your husband is a vet and you want him to meet other vets, why? Why does he need to meet other veterinary surgeons? Or is 'vet' short for something else too?

What are you have trouble asking him about/telling him?

Has he got a problem? Have you got a problem? Have you got a problem and it is him?

One things for sure, if you're as vague and ambiguous with him as you are when describing the situation here, its going to be very frustrating for him to try to work out what you're saying.

Be more direct is my advice.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Then why aren't you getting on the guys who say they tune their wives out, who interrupt them and tell them to get to the point? Who are unapologetic when they say these things, like its the macho thing to do and don't all men do this?

And forgive me for temporarily hijacking your thread!


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

ebp123 said:


> Seriously?! Having to sugar coat how you talk to a man b/c his feelings might get hurt is just as bad as feminism! If a man can't hear a straightforward request without getting defensive, tuning you out, shutting you down, etc., then he's not a man, he's a mouse. When did men become such pussies!?!


I'm a guy who likes it shot to me straight forward, direct and without any translations needed. But if my wife (or ANYONE) starts with just blasting me with criticism etc. You're going to be shut down.

PS this isn't just a me thing. This is a human thing. There's a reason so many management books talk about how to critique your employees in a way to get them to want to listen and then act on it.

Very simple 3 step process
1. Compliment them on something they're doing well (makes someone want to listen to you)
2. Bring up criticism in a non-threatening way and explain how it will benefit them
3. Compliment their ability to be able to accomplish said criticism.

If you want to call YEARS and YEARS of proven management and motivational teachings and call it garbage and say the receivers are wussies...go ahead.



ebp123 said:


> Then why aren't you getting on the guys who say they tune their wives out, who interrupt them and tell them to get to the point? Who are unapologetic when they say these things, like its the macho thing to do and don't all men do this?
> 
> And forgive me for temporarily hijacking your thread!


Show me a thread and I WOULD get on them. If I read any man saying this is the APPROPRIATE way to "handle your woman", I'd set him straight.



The OP is asking for advise about how to approach her husband.

He's obviously struggling with some issues from his time away at war (hence her feeling the need for therapy). He's probably a man who thinks he can just "fight through it" and doesn't want to appear weak (two very common traits for soldiers) and is going to be less receptive to what she wants to talk about than the "average" guy. His wife bringing up therapy is going to be especially difficult for him because, lets assume he recognizes SOME issues within himself, he already has an internal sensitivity to being "broken" and if his wife brings it up, that confirms that feeling in his mind, making him "less of a man".

So the OP taking the time to try and do EVERYTHING possible to ease into this conversation is a smart move. 

OP I don't know your husband well enough, but just take your time, be direct and 100% non-critical. Your husband is probably already extremely critical of himself internally. If you are, he'll get defensive. Remember what your goal is.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Racer said:


> Example. "You know that blue skirt I have? The one I wore to _______(ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh)____ " <== the static that overwhelms my brain as I start tuning you out and pondering where the hell this conversations is going to go. Is this a fat talk, or maybe she wants a date to the opera again, or about her friends we went with, or maybe she wants to go shopping for shoes to match, or maybe there's a presidential stain.... "Please dear, continue to baffle me with all the potentials of where you are going with this".


Here's an example from this thread of how a guy is saying that he is tuning his wife out.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

ebp123 said:


> Here's an example from this thread of how a guy is saying that he is tuning his wife out.


I told my friend how my wife tunes me out and completely ignores me. He set me a test so I did it. I had to stand 10 paces from my wife, and then ask her a question. I did this, choosing to ask what was for dinner. If she didn't answer I had to walk forward 5 paces and ask again, so I did. Nothing. So following the instructions to the letter, I stood right next to her and asked again. She seemed angry as she shouted, "I've already told you twice, its egg and chips tonight".


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

ShyEnglishman said:


> I told my friend how my wife tunes me out and completely ignores me. He set me a test so I did it. I had to stand 10 paces from my wife, and then ask her a question. I did this, choosing to ask what was for dinner. If she didn't answer I had to walk forward 5 paces and ask again, so I did. Nothing. So following the instructions to the letter, I stood right next to her and asked again. She seemed angry as she shouted, "I've already told you twice, its egg and chips tonight".


That's insanity. My H just doesn't feel the need to respond. To anything. If I say, would you mind picking up some milk when you are out, he doesn't respond. If I say that work was crazy today and I'm so stressed, he just looks at me. Or doesn't. That's what really drives me crazy. Not only does he feel no need to respond, but it has taken me 10 years to convince him that eye contact is a way of showing respect. That walking away to go do something in the middle of a conversation is disrespectful. He argued for YEARS that he was listening, but I just don't accept that. I don't believe I should have to talk to the back of a person's head.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

ebp123 said:


> That's insanity. My H just doesn't feel the need to respond. To anything. If I say, would you mind picking up some milk when you are out, he doesn't respond. If I say that work was crazy today and I'm so stressed, he just looks at me. Or doesn't. That's what really drives me crazy. Not only does he feel no need to respond, but it has taken me 10 years to convince him that eye contact is a way of showing respect. That walking away to go do something in the middle of a conversation is disrespectful. He argued for YEARS that he was listening, but I just don't accept that. I don't believe I should have to talk to the back of a person's head.


The post you quoted was a well known joke. Possibly in bad taste I admit with hindsight. It wasn't meant to be taken literally.

But, from the situation you describe, I must ask, why are you married to him?

You've spent 10 years teaching him to make eye contact. Does that mean he didn't make eye contact right at the beginning? How did your wedding go if he couldn't even look you in the eyes while saying his vows? How did you get as far as the altar in the first place if he didn't do eye contact? How did he even ask you out?

Eye contact is not only a purely social/civil thing, it is practical too. Example. My hearing is less then perfect. When somebody is talking to me, I usually catch about 50% of what they say, and have to build the rest up from a combination of context, body language and facial expressions. If I can't see their face, I often have no idea what they're talking about.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm working on a divorce. He changed on me once we got married. He revealed himself, really. Before we were married, he was supportive and a good listener. But I guess that was a lot of work and once he bought the cow (there's a good American expression for you), he didn't need to do pay attention to me anymore. He would swear this isn't true, but his words and his actions do not line up (as in, "I'm listening" even as you talk to the back of my head.)


But we have now completely hijacked this thread. Sorry, OP!!


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

ebp123 said:


> Here's an example from this thread of how a guy is saying that he is tuning his wife out.


And? If it was truly important or dire, you will get right to the point first. “The house is on fire!” Starting off with “You know my curling iron, that old one by my sink? Well....” I know the important stuff you will come around to saying eventually. It’s ok to zone out through the prelude until you get around to what you really want to talk about or ask. 

Another tip for betulanana. Most of those planned out speeches you’ve also established in your head how it will go; Over-thinking it. Often they fail to follow your script and if you are really sold on how you expect it to go, you may feel frustration and anxiety that it doesn’t go as planned. I know with certain people that comes out as anger. So, never go into a serious discussion with pre-conceived outcomes and expectations. Just remind yourself that you are talking about it so a plan can be developed that he believes will work; That may not be your plan or even something you think will work. So keep asking, digging and watch for the actions.

And do not at all assume you know what he is thinking at all. Ask. That was the worst thing my wife would do. If I didn’t share her opinions or perceptions, she’d make up reasons why I don’t; Like the [email protected]#@ you stuff you think he’s thinking. Don’t assume or guess. What happens when you do is it becomes easy to fabricate a person instead of understanding who he really is.... Sort of like ebp123's perception of me as some cartoon villain who needs a tampon because I can’t handle the truth of whatever my wife is babbling on about 

And I jest ebp123... I understand why you think like that. I often stop mid-sentence or fabricate something ludicrous to see if my notices... She doesn't.


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## KalmAndKollected (Sep 26, 2012)

ebp123 said:


> If I say that work was crazy today and I'm so stressed, he just looks at me. Or doesn't. That's what really drives me crazy.


Please do tell the response you would like to hear from that statement? My wife gives me these "questions that are really statements a lot. And I do what your husband does. I don't know what to say or do. If I say "sorry baby", she'll keep on with the statements, but expects a response. I know this because she thinks I'm not listening. But I am. Just don't know what to do with these non-starter statements. I find it pathological. 

Me, when I feel that way. I make the statement, but don't expect a response. I grab a beer and move on with my life. 

Please tell me what you would want to hear. I bet a ton a married men want that answer!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ebp123 said:


> Seriously?! Having to sugar coat how you talk to a man b/c his feelings might get hurt is just as bad as feminism! If a man can't hear a straightforward request without getting defensive, tuning you out, shutting you down, etc., then he's not a man, he's a mouse. When did men become such pussies!?!


She mentioned he was a VET. Wants him to talk to other VETs and get some therapy.

Read this over and rethink please. Since you are female I will cut you a little slack here. A little.

--check ( asked nicely ... once )


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Ok so really are people not aware that a VET used in the context as the OP has infers a veteran?

Seriously. Now if they do not mean a vertarn this is a bait and swicth post. But the context involves a veteran. Does these really need further explanation?

Indeed I served for eigth years myself. But most people I know can grasp veterans needing to be people who may need to be dealt with with some finesse. People who love them would certainly ask how they should approach this.

I have no idea what this guy wnet through. But I will tell you that for the guys who have gone through much it is not something they can speak about with non veterans. You kinda have to be there to get it.

So I do confess I find the tangents and comments on this thread to be both entertaining and disconcerting at the same time. Shallow and narcissistic perhaps. I mean come on. the ability for an adult to have empathy is a higher level of maturity.

Indedd more inof for the OP might be a good thing, but how much more should they have to explain once they say VET? Seriously? It is like womdering why an abused child, battered wife or rape victim need to be approached with kindness. if you think I exaggerate I suggets you stand a post. Ooops that was from a few good men. YMMV. Sorry, but my hot buttons are abused children, battered wives, rape victims and vets.

But anyone who would call a VET a pu$$y and who has never been on the other end of incoming fire should basically shut the hell up and reconsider what their point really is. Just my opinion. I am guessing that people just missed that we were not just talking about any man here.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> But anyone who would call a VET a pu$$y and who has never been on the other end of incoming fire should basically shut the hell up and reconsider what their point really is. Just my opinion. I am guessing that people just missed that we were not just talking about any man here.


Sir, I think they thought I was talking about a veterinarian and wondered why there would be a need to meet other veterinarians.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Thank you 

My list:

a) do not complain about his behaviour / do not critisize
b) point out why it is better for him
c) keep it short and simple - really??? Won't he get the idea I am talking down to him?
d) do not use always and never
e) wait for the right opportunity - do not chose a time when he is stressed to talk
g) compliment him
h) ask for his opinion

Did I miss something?


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

KalmAndKollected said:


> Please do tell the response you would like to hear from that statement? My wife gives me these "questions that are really statements a lot. And I do what your husband does. I don't know what to say or do. If I say "sorry baby", she'll keep on with the statements, but expects a response. I know this because she thinks I'm not listening. But I am. Just don't know what to do with these non-starter statements. I find it pathological.
> 
> Me, when I feel that way. I make the statement, but don't expect a response. I grab a beer and move on with my life.
> 
> Please tell me what you would want to hear. I bet a ton a married men want that answer!


I beg she want's to hear:
"Sorry to hear you are having a hard time at your job. Your boss is such a jerk. I hate him. Isn't he the biggest $%§&§ ever? How could he do this to you? I wish I could give him a piece of my mind" and then she wants to b*** a little bit about her boss and then she will feel okay again. Women are like this. They do not really need to solve any problem. Solving problems is great if it is possible but sometimes a women just needs to b*** and complain.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

deleted


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

ebp123 said:


> Here's an example from this thread of how a guy is saying that he is tuning his wife out.


And Racer is wrong for that. No doubt. If you can't be friends with your spouse and have good conversations, why are you even together. 

Friends with chemistry, communication and loyalty leads to the best marriages.



ebp123 said:


> That's insanity. My H just doesn't feel the need to respond. To anything. If I say, would you mind picking up some milk when you are out, he doesn't respond. If I say that work was crazy today and I'm so stressed, he just looks at me. Or doesn't. That's what really drives me crazy. Not only does he feel no need to respond, but it has taken me 10 years to convince him that eye contact is a way of showing respect. That walking away to go do something in the middle of a conversation is disrespectful. He argued for YEARS that he was listening, but I just don't accept that. I don't believe I should have to talk to the back of a person's head.


In this regard your H isn't very bright. Many times our spouses need to just vent. If you can't give 5-10 minutes of undivided, focused attention, than you're way too selfish.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

ebp123 said:


> Seriously?! Having to sugar coat how you talk to a man b/c his feelings might get hurt is just as bad as feminism! If a man can't hear a straightforward request without getting defensive, tuning you out, shutting you down, etc., then he's not a man, he's a mouse. When did men become such pussies!?!


Men don't like the women they sleep with to act like their boss or like their buddies dropping F bombs "Hey mfer! Why isn't the grass cut". Same for women. Tons of women I know actually enjoy having men as friends/bosses because of the drama that can ensue. 

I had this conversation with my exw. She was beautiful but her tone and body languange was agressive and reminded me of a angry man. It's hard to keep loving this.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

OP I suggest you read the one minute manager. It's a quick read and I think it will help in your communication a lot. I think there's even a version for families.


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

As a vet myself let's ask.

Is he having affects from combat?

When i returned my wife sat me down and i think she handled it perfectly.

She sent the kids to grandparents and brought me a beer and sat in my lap. Arms around my neck and looking in my eyes she started her conversation.

Wife: You know how much I adore you and you know what a great father I and the kids know you are right?
Me: yes why?
Wife: I really want to talk and please remember it comes from your wife who adores you.
Me: OKay?
Wife: Ok let me finish before you answer. *She gave me a kiss here*
Wife: We know war and combat changes a man. Good men go and see things that are awful, they see things a good man should never have to see. I can't imagine the things you saw or did but I worry for you because I know you struggle with those things. I can see it in you. I see your pain and I can't help you I feel powerless.
Me: *try to interrupt and she kissed me again* 
Wife: I wasn't finished. There are people who have been there and done that and I am told it might help you to talk to them. They have seen what you have seen and done what you have done. We just got you back and we have missed you but I know you need this time to clear those ghosts from your head. Would you go and talk to other soldiers at the vet center for me, for us and for the kids? 
Me: *tears in my eyes and she kissed me again*
Wife: You know I only ask because we love you and we want the best for you and we want the best of you. You are a wonderful husband and a terrific father but we can see you struggle and it breaks my heart I can't help you. I will go with you if you think it will be easier and I am here for whatever you need.

I did go see the help. I don't regret it now but at the time I truly thought I didn't need it. My best friend Ken did not go see the help and months later I talked the gun out of his mouth after a panicked call from his wife. I am blessed to have a wife who speaks to me directly.

You need to be direct, supportive and understanding. he is a good man who has seen horrors no man should ever have to see. I witness children dying from bombings and was sent to secure the area all the while women and children begging me for help. I couldn't help them I had no medical knowledge or training. this was a horrific sight for me.

One of the things they had us do was write what we felt inside after our time in theater. I have not shared this today but this is what I wrote. It's not elegant but if it helps in anyway you are welcome to it. I personally waited far to long before my wife convinced me to seek help as a soldier my pride said i was fine, i could handle it. As a man I thought myself strong enough and couldn't see the changes at first. He may still be at this point and it may become a fight. God bless the good wife willing to help her husband and I will pray for you.

There's place I my mind where I used to cage it.
A piece of myself to horrible for sight.
A piece of myself released when needed.
It doesn't obey me anymore.
These bars once used to contain it.
A place locked away where prying eyes could not see.
Lately it's me staring inward through the bars.
The cage is open no keys remaining.
These bars once held it deep inside.
No looking inward I've nowhere to hide.

I swore it wouldn't come to this.
Me on the inside looking out while it roams free.
A distant shout draws it's deadly gaze.
I must kill it before it closes the door.
The door to this cage where it lived for so long.
It can't escape not yet anyway.
I keep it contained within me.
Against these bonds it's straining.
I must kill it forever or else be eaten alive.
Consumed from within by the beast I contrive.

I've done so much and seen many things.
It helps me survive it all.
While it's distract I should do something.
But what can I do I ask.
For glory, for honor, for country.
Are these the things that matter.
It's leads me blindly out of sight.
Past the changes within me.
For too long I sat while it grew strong.
Is it now to late. Did I wait to long.

I waited and allowed it to grow in me.
It kept me safe while I sat sheltered.
It preformed flawlessly and I was a good soldier.
Performing impossibly any task.
For life, for love, for innocence.
Are these the things I protect.
These are what I believe in and why I fight.
Not anymore with it in charge of me
I'm blind from within a darkness so near.
A darkness so black, so insincere.

I've lost my innocence and forgotten how to love. What has my life become?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Bbird1 your wife's interaction with you brought a tear to my eye. She's a keeper.


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Bbird1 your wife's interaction with you brought a tear to my eye. She's a keeper.


Thanks I think so to. She's put up with some crap over the years and she always smells like roses.  I have always been in awe of her.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

betulanana said:


> Sir, I think they thought I was talking about a veterinarian and wondered why there would be a need to meet other veterinarians.


LOL. Please do take the high road. But I am throwing the challenge flag. Few people are truly that clueless.


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## KalmAndKollected (Sep 26, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Bbird1 your wife's interaction with you brought a tear to my eye. She's a keeper.


Ditto. Amazing. Amazing how the right approach to communication can evolve itself into something beautiful.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Hello all.

First an apology, of sorts. It has come to my attention recently than in the US, you struggle with the word "veteran", so shorten the word to Vet (note the capital V, this, I've learned, is to try to restore some respect after failing to bother to even write the word in full, despite it only being 7 letters and 3 syllables long). As an English man, I failed to realise this subtlety of the American language, and so when I saw Vet, I associated it with the regular use of the term we have here in England, which means veterinary surgeon. I hereby apologise for sticking to the rules of the English language and getting confused by language that does not follow the rules.

Of course veterans, British ones AND US ones, have my utmost respect, so the last thing I'd want to do is offend a veteran or their families.

Back on topic now though, how to approach a man who has been through more than most of us will ever go through, and therefore is having some issues. That is a tricky one indeed. Not being a veteran myself, I'm not qualified to answer that question. I've seen death, sometimes gruesome death, and it really does have an impact on the mind. I had a full on nervous breakdown after one thing I witnessed. But the horrors I've seen have only through accidents, never through conflict. It was bad enough when I saw the motorbike literally sheered in two, and the smashed remains of its rider on the road in front of it while his friend tried in vain to save his life. That really shook me. If I'd thought for a second that the tractor driver had actually seen him and deliberately pulled out when he did, I'd be even more shaken. This is not, I presume, the same as a war veteran has to deal with, but the point is, when I cracked after seeing one too many things, I simply wasn't functioning correctly for a while. People noticed, but I can't see that they could do anything, because the normal rules don't apply when your mind is not working normally.

I'm wondering if it is possible to speak to a trusted mutually friend who has been through similar things and therefore is in a position to understand.


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

ShyEnglishman said:


> I'm wondering if it is possible to speak to a trusted mutually friend who has been through similar things and therefore is in a position to understand.


***This is what the veteran groups are for. They are others who have seen and done what you have. 

Now I feel no need to apologize it was an honest mistake.

Now on to topic. What you have seen sound indeed awful. Have you had to secure an accident where 100s of people are now missing body parts and/or dead or dying? All the while you must stand guard and protect the area waiting for medical help to arrive. The people laying there begging you for help many women and children all the while you lack the knowledge to help them?

Ever held your best friend as he died in your arms? Ever been shot at and ordered to charge into the hail of bullets? Ever shot someone personally? Ever had to kill someone silently with a knife know if they made a sound you'd be burring another friend? Even had a friend dive on a grenade to save you? Ever had to look your friends wife in the face and tell her that her husband is never coming home? Ever had to go collect the pieces of a friends after their helicopter was blown out of the sky? Ever been sent into rescue someone who you found beaten and tortured beyond recognition? 

These are but a few of the trials of war I've witnessed first hand and personal. My wife said it best "When good men go off to war they see and do things that good men should never have to. This changes a man forever but he can still be a good man once he wraps his mind around the facts of war."

For those who have no idea what a soldier sees and does this is a partial list. And some of what I saw on a near daily basis during my multiple deployments. As a seal now my deployments are shorter but no less violent and troubling.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

bbird1 said:


> Have you had to secure an accident where 100s of people are now missing body parts and/or dead or dying? All the while you must stand guard and protect the area waiting for medical help to arrive....


No. This is why I was keen to point out that I'm not qualified to advise now that I understand what the OP was asking.

When I was 17, I nearly joined the army. I wanted to do whatever I could to help prevent the genocide that was unfolding in the former Yugoslavia. Then while I was mid recruitment, having passed all my tests and just waiting for the medical and the security checks, news broke of a massacre that happened in a village. There was a squad of UN peacekeepers on the hillside who saw the whole thing. They were ordered NOT to intervene, but to observe. I.e. they had to watch while women were raped and then killed, men were beaten then killed, and young kids were shot at point blank range in the head. I was made aware of this from the comfort and safety of my house, about 1000 miles away, and with the whole story having been sanitised for TV, yet it still made me feel quite ill. It shattered my illusions of what army life was going to be like. I simply don't have what it takes to be a soldier. I couldn't follow orders in the face of extreme horrors. I would do one of two things, I'd either freeze up and become useless to everyone, or I'd flip my lid and go mad, risking the lives of my comrades. It takes a stronger character than me to do that job. Then there are are tales from my late grandad, who served in WW2. One of them sticks in my mind about how he was alongside a younger, less experienced soldier when they had to dive for cover due to incoming. After the blast, when the mud had stopped falling out the sky, my grandad emerge from cover and turned to speak to his mate. His mate hadn't ducked quickly enough, and was now minus his head. How on earth soldiers continue to function at all, let alone well, when faced with situations like that, is beyond me. This is why service men and women, regardless of rank or regiment, have my utmost respect. Its also why I can't even begin to pretend I understand how they feel or how to help the ones that are struggling with what they've experienced.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

betulanana said:


> I have a question to all the men.
> 
> I want to talk with my husband about some stuff. Most likely not this weekend but the next one.
> 
> ...


It would really help if you have a quick rundown on what your issues are. 

If I recall correctly from your other threads you husband is doing things that are causing you problems.

He seems to have OCD in that once you are both in bed and asleep he yells, jumps up and starts compulsively cleaning, shinning shoes, etc. When he does this he wakes you up and you have a problem going back to sleep. So then you are tired the next day. You are becoming sleep deprived.

When you try to talk to him about this he just looks at you and smiles.. poker faced. He will not address the issues with you.

So you want him to go to counseling.

I assume you think that if he meets other vets he'll find some support with men who have been through the same thing.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Here's a thought, and again it comes with the disclaimer that I'm not qualified to advise in this matter, but..

Over the years I have known quite a few ex-services personnel. Some of whom have/had seen action, some hadn't, but almost all had some difficulty adjusting back to civilian life, or adjusting to 'civvy street' as we call it. Not just for the horrors they saw, because like I say, some of them never saw it, but possibly because of the 'culture shock' of going from being up and ready at 5AM, having everything immaculate, then setting off on a 20 mile run in full battle gear by 6AM. Always knowing who to trust and who not to trust, knowing who your mates are, having every calorie you take in burnt off through intense physical activity etc, to going to life in civvy street, getting up when you want (within reason), things not being immaculate all the time, not burning off all your food, not knowing who your mates are etc.

I don't have an answer to that, and I can't even claim to understand it having never experienced it, but it is the kind of thing ex-services friends have described to me in the past.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

ShyEnglishman said:


> As an English man, I failed to realise this subtlety of the American language, and so when I saw Vet, I associated it with the regular use of the term we have here in England, which means veterinary surgeon. I hereby apologise for sticking to the rules of the English language and getting confused by language that does not follow the rules.


I can see how there could be a bit of an argy-bargy over the matter, but colloquial meanings actually do fall within the rules of the English language. (Or American if you prefer.)


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## john_lord_b3 (Jan 11, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Bbird1 your wife's interaction with you brought a tear to my eye. She's a keeper.


:smthumbup::iagree: Amein!


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

ocotillo said:


> I can see how there could be a bit of an argy-bargy over the matter, but colloquial meanings actually do fall within the rules of the English language. (Or American if you prefer.)


But only when all parties in the discussion are known or can be reasonably expected to understand the colloquialisms.

When I communicate with people even locally in the UK, I avoid colloquialisms unless I know that person/those people very well and know they will share the same local dialect. Otherwise I stick as closely as I can to the language as defined today. That way we all have a chance of understanding each other.

Here's a bit of factual trivia that I think is relevant here. It is a well known fact that in 1066 there was a very significant battle in England that had a profound effect (interest side fact, the battle of Hastings didn't happen at Hastings, it happened just outside the village of Battle). A lesser known historical fact is that BEFORE the battle of Hastings in 1066, the Saxons and Normans forged a treaty of peace. News of the treaty was celebrated on both sides. Unfortunately, when one group of soldiers heard another cheering and shouting in a language they didn't understand, they thought they were hearing the enemy preparing to attack, so launched a preemptive attack on them, ending the brief treaty. So all because of a misunderstanding, a war was fought. That might not even be true if I'm honest, I only heard this tale from a few unreliable sources, but the point is valid. Fights happen when people don't understand each other. It is hard enough in a world of global communication where there are many different languages, each with many different local dialects, without people using local colloquialisms on an internationally used website.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ShyEnglishman said:


> Hello all.
> 
> *First an apology, of sorts. It has come to my attention recently than in the US, you struggle with the word "veteran"*, so shorten the word to Vet (note the capital V, this, I've learned, is to try to restore some respect after failing to bother to even write the word in full, despite it only being 7 letters and 3 syllables long). As an English man, I failed to realise this subtlety of the American language, and so when I saw Vet, I associated it with the regular use of the term we have here in England, which means veterinary surgeon. I hereby apologise for sticking to the rules of the English language and getting confused by language that does not follow the rules.
> 
> ...


Better form to just apologize mate and not blame Americans for anything. We do not struggle with that in any way. Maybe this is due to your shyness. Just freaking be a stand up guy and say, you were sorry because you misunderstood. Don't blame others. LOL. Good on ya. Next time you know.

Cheers.

Oh and about that whole WWII thing. You are welcome.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> Better form to just apologize mate and not blame Americans for anything. We do not struggle with that in any way. Maybe this is due to your shyness. Just freaking be a stand up[ guy and say, you were sorry because you misunderstood. Don't blame others. LOL. Good on ya.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Oh and about that whole WWII thing. You are welcome.


You are quite right of course. Sorry. I was slightly enraged earlier, and I let that carry over onto here and directed it at people that didn't deserve it. I do that sometimes, and I'll no doubt do it again, but I'm working on it.

Lets not play tit for tat though. Anyone with any sense will of course recognise the US contribution to WW2. The fact is a tiny little country like Britain (look at us on a map of the world) couldn't defeat half the world without US assistance, but lets also remember that the US refused to help until after they were attacked by Japan. I also don't want to say, that Afghanistan thing, that Iraq thing, you're welcome, because our two nations are supposed to be close allies, not tenuous, score keeping ones.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ShyEnglishman said:


> You are quite right of course. Sorry. I was slightly enraged earlier, and I let that carry over onto here and directed it at people that didn't deserve it. I do that sometimes, and I'll no doubt do it again, but I'm working on it.
> 
> Lets not play tit for tat though. Anyone with any sense will of course recognise the US contribution to WW2. The fact is a tiny little country like Britain (look at us on a map of the world) couldn't defeat half the world without US assistance, but lets also remember that the US refused to help until after they were attacked by Japan. I also don't want to say, that Afghanistan thing, that Iraq thing, you're welcome, because our two nations are supposed to be close allies, not tenuous, score keeping ones.


So I confess I created the tangent. Lets just say that the US and Brits have a history and I hope we have each others backs for a long time to come. My comment was basically tongue and cheek. I personally have a love for the Brits. The Brits did the fighting while we stood by and watched. We were late to the party. They were fighting our fight as far as I am concerned.

When push comes to shove while we have a friendly rivalry of sorts but no one should think we are not anything but the closest of allies. Blood, sweat and tears have been shed shoulder to shoulder. Always nice to exchange with folks from across the pond. We know where things stand though. Others do as well. No worries mate.


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## ShyEnglishman (Aug 23, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> When push comes to shove we have a friendly rivalry of sorts.


This is true. I must confess I'm guilty of playing on this fact sometimes. It is also true however that whether the US was late or not, and while I don't doubt the British tenacity, we were going to lose if the yanks didn't lend us their kit. We were turning out ships and ammo almost, but not quite as fast as the Jerry was sinking them, but not quite fast enough. Did you know that when the evacuation of Normandy happened, we simply didn't have enough craft available? It was a small group of fishermen that disobeyed the Royal Navy officers who had clearly said that they didn't have the resources to also protect unarmed fishing boats, that saved the day? They start the chain reaction of every boat owner in the area volunteering to take their boat over, unarmed, to one of the most fiercely defended strongholds in the whole of Europe.

That friendly rivalry you mention also exists between Britain and France. I am first on the scene whenever there is a chance to mock the French, but they did what they could (the ones that didn't surrender that is). My grandad and his squad were given refuge in a French farm for a few days after it was realised that the intelligence reports about the German strength in the region were grossly wrong, and allied forces, including yanks, were outnumbered something like 100:1.



> Always nice to exchange with folks from across the pond. We know where things stand though. Others do as well. No worries mate.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

ShyEnglishman said:


> Did you know that when the evacuation of Normandy happened, we simply didn't have enough craft available? It was a small group of fishermen that disobeyed the Royal Navy officers who had clearly said that they didn't have the resources to also protect unarmed fishing boats, that saved the day? They start the chain reaction of every boat owner in the area volunteering to take their boat over, unarmed, to one of the most fiercely defended strongholds in the whole of Europe.


Yup. People worthy of putting yourself in harms way for. Inspirational. Desperate times show what people are truly made of.

And this relates directly to this thread. It can be very hard for veterans to convey how they feel to those who have not experienced it. They cannot find the words much of the time. This is true of others who put themselves in harms way of course. But there are all sorts of conflicting feelings one has. 

I was fortunate in my service. I had a colleague who had been pressed into servce as a helicopter gunner in Vietnam. He survived no less than three crashes. Obvioulsy he was quite fortunate. He would not even chat with his brother about this but he did me the honor of sharing his feelings with me. I did ask questions but pretty much let him let his feelings guide things. I think he felt better having someone who would listen. Who might understand.

I also remember going through electronics training and having a room mate who had a couple of tours. One evening we had a thunderstorm. He woke up and crawled under his rack screaming incoming. I had to talk him down and tell him and that we were going to be ok. I was never in country myself so I can never completely understand. But those guys have a wide berth with me. I can only imagine.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> That is a good summary. Also my husband does want to go to bed in the evening. He comes up with a gazillion of chores he needs to do first and I have to "catch him" and drag him there. If I don't he just falls asleep whatever he is doing.
> 
> I did this as well. I didn't know it at the time but it had to do with the lose of good friends in battle for me. I watched one to many people I know die. I was afraid to be close to people because i feared losing them.
> 
> ...


I did all these same things and I didn't know why. I understand them now and my wife does as well. I am sure you are exactly what he needs because you seem to love him very much. He will not be able to explain and will not understand why he has these emotions as he heals. Just know he needs them to heal.


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I assume you think that if he meets other vets he'll find some support with men who have been through the same thing.


From one soldier to someone who isn't one. Yes talking about it at the vet centers with train psychiatrists who also happen to be soldiers as well as group counselling at the vet centers with people who are soldiers and have seen and done what you have. This indeed helps.

It may not be the cure all but it is a great starting place. For many soldiers I know personally it's what was needed to adjust to life as a civilian. 

Close your eyes and picture your best friend in the world walking and talking and having a good time with you. Got it? Now your friend steps on roadside ordinance (a little bomb) and his/her leg is blow off and you hold them while they bleed out waiting for medical attention. That vision is not something you can shake on your own but with people who know what you are living through it does help.

OP, 
One thing I forgot to mention and I just remembered it.

As he heals he may as I did withdraw. I shut people out. He may go through many things as he heals be patient it's a process. If he finds himself raging (it can happen and I went through this as well for a few weeks) be sure you and the kids have a safe place during it. Lucky it doesn't usually last long. He will hit the rage wall just before his biggest break through. This is the typical scenario anyway. It will be the moment everything he has suppressed to keep himself sane in an insane situation and the pain inside is almost unthinkable. But line up a place where you can go and be safe for a short time -if- he hits the wall like this. He may just fall to pieces which I've also seen and if this happens he will need your support to pick himself up.

During my raging or angry phase I still had enough sense to check myself in to the hospital where I couldn't hurt my wife and kids. he may as well but not all men do. During this time nightmares can be vivid and he may even relive the worst days of his life.

Once more amen and god bless.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Thank you for sharing so much personal info, Sir.

I'd like to say something comforting - just do not know what to say. It must be a great shock when your friend dies like this.

You know, it may not be helpful for everbody. I have lost loved ones. It has helped me a lot to remember the fact that we may not know the big picture but God does.
I am sure your friend is in a good place now and now that he sees that you try your best to be happy and healthy he is very happy for you.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> Thank you again, Sir.
> 
> My husband does not have an anger-management problem. When I wrote about "yelling" I was talking about the fact that he yells the minute he wakes up, but not in anger. In most cases he is "panicing" about small things like having forgotten about cleaning something or telling himself everything is alright. I do not know why he yells about this. He does not do this when fully awake. He is the most self-possessed person ever.
> Sometimes he also yells things that make no sense.
> ...


I was composed as well I yelled at the kids when they didn't listen. Prior to combat I never raised my voice. There are many approaches. The vet center has a number of options from one on one to group therapy. A few soldiers have the ability to simply talk to anyone and not need a reply. He could try talking privately to a journal maybe. He could try (if you are willing) talking to you.

As for the waking yelling he maybe waking from bad dreams and catching himself quickly and regains composure. Though I am not a psychiatrist. I woke many mornings panicked in cold sweats. 

Now for your big question why I did it. I guess I had seen so much conflict that I didn't want it at home. I avoided it with agreement, poker-faces or blank stares. I am not 100% sure my wife could had done anything to get me to stop. I to liked being in control of every aspect I could reasonably be in control of. 

I should maybe let my wife answer the question what she tried though I didn't stop until therapy and in therapy is where the the other things like yelling manifested. I do remember waking one morning in a sweat and screaming. I told my wife i was only upset because I forgot something but in reality I don't remember why I woke screaming.

My wife was real patient and she tried taking my hand and talking to me, sitting in front of me, sitting on my lap nothing really worked. 

My journal helped some. My wife was too squeamish to tell her the things I saw and did. Oh she tried but it bothered her. I finally was convinced by her to go to therapy. It took her like 4 or 5 months to convince me and more than 6 months before i made my real break through. But every man is different with what will work.

I do understand the sleeping alone I still do. As a seal I am jumpy when woken wrong. My kids know to not wake dad by touching him. I am in control but I know friends who snap and even harm people. It's hard to explain unless you've been in theater. He is probably protecting you consciously or unconsciously. When woken wrong a soldier who has seen combat might trigger a fight or flight memory. Some have harmed their loved ones without meaning to. Again this is some soldiers not all.

Anyway if he opposes therapy don't force it. This will most likely backfire if you try and force it. Self therapy only works for so long and only so well. I've not known a single soldier able to use self therapy with long term success.

All the best to you and your husband.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Thank you so much for the long explanation.

I have got two short questions: Do you still give your wife pokerface and staring into the sunset? It sounds like you don't. Did you decide to stop or did it just stop? Did it stop because you don't feel like you need to be in control anymore?

Aren't you sad that you don't sleep in one bed with your wife?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bbird1 said:


> From one soldier to someone who isn't one.


I’m a veteran as well.

ETA: I've had friends killed in war, seen people blown to pieces a village of people gunned down.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

betulanana said:


> Yes... and I think I should just mention this and not sure if I should mention his yelling / cleaning habit again. I guess he realises he has one.


The reason I age a quick breakdown of your situation is because people were telling you to be direct and not try to figure out how to better talk to him. They had apparently not read your other thread.

I wanted them to know that you have already tried the direct approach and a lot more . You are having no luck and need help with coming up with a different approach.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Sorry.
I do not want to be disrespectful of the Vets in this thread but some of the things you saw make people feel sick to their stomach.
Sorry if this is an inappropriate comment. I just wanted to ask you if you please could consider that not everybody in this thread is a Vet... and there are really things on this world I do not need to and do not want to know about.
Please do not get me wrong.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

betulanana said:


> Sorry.
> I do not want to be disrespectful of the Vets in this thread but some of the things you saw make people feel sick to their stomach.
> Sorry if this is an inappropriate comment. I just wanted to ask you if you please could consider that not everybody in this thread is a Vet... and there are really things on this world I do not need to and do not want to know about.
> Please do not get me wrong.


Sorry... The things I have seen are not just as a vet. As a child too living in war. IT's sadly something that a huge number of people on earth, even today see all the time.

Do you know that your husband has seen such things? Or are you assuming that he has. Not all vets do.


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> Thank you so much for the long explanation.
> 
> You are welcome if it helps a fellow soldier and/or his family in anyway then it is more than worth it.
> 
> ...


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I’m a veteran as well.
> 
> ETA: I've had friends killed in war, seen people blown to pieces a village of people gunned down.


My apologizes humbly offered for my assumption. Thank you for your service.

EleGirl: *Do you know that your husband has seen such things? *

Sorry for bringing things up like such I wanted to give you some examples what he might have seen without being too graphic. It is important he know and talk about these things. if he has seen these things it changes a person. He was a good man who left and is still a good man who returned but he has seen or possibly seen horrific things that no person should need to see. I shall not bring up the horrors again in respect for you and others who do not wish to hear of them.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Do you know that your husband has seen such things?


No, I do not know what he saw because he does not talk with me. 

By the way. I know that the world is a bad place. Do not think of me as naive or foolish. I just do not know how the information that the world is a bad place helps me life my live. So I choose to ignore it. Before I married I gave money to charities like AI.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

deleted


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

deleted


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> No, I do not know what he saw because he does not talk with me.
> 
> By the way. I know that the world is a bad place. Do not think of me as naive or foolish. I just do not know how the information that the world is a bad place helps me life my live. So I choose to ignore it. Before I married I gave money to charities like AI.


It's not important because you are naive. I never suggested that. The only reason it could be important is to asses the amount of trauma he has seen. Some men never see any trauma but being away from home and family for a year or more can tear some men up as much as combat itself. I guess it's only important to know what you are working with.

As a seal I can assure you I am never without a plan, a backup and a fail safe for everything in life. From financial planning to a day at the park. Even during therapy to the world i was in full control all the time. Only to my wife did she see any doubt in myself. Only because the extreme amount of trust I have in her was she allowed to see this.

By the time I sought help I had been deployed 3 times into active combat zones. I was a front line soldier and saw the true horrors. But i can say there is a burden of being away from those you love that weighs on the heart. 

So if I made it sound like you are naive please accept my apology. You seem worldly and very smart to me as well as loving and kind. Disrespect is not my intention.


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> It makes me just tremble and reading this thread makes me tremble and feel sick.


Please don't feel this way. Even with all the combat I've seen I am stable, sane and probably the biggest teddy bear with kids you've ever known. There is plenty of help out there.

yes the world is horrible at times but it's also beautiful and good. I keep a photo of my wife and three kids with me every deployment in my breast pocket right over my heart. 

Remember life is short and every day is a gift and that's why it's called the present. I firmly believe that.

My wife said last night when she read your post. "I was there before you got help." She thought the world was a horrible place and she was sickened by the things I told her of what I'd seen and done. she also said "If you love him accept the behaviors you can live with and gently nudge the ones you can't." At this point in our lives she knows some of what I've seen and some of where I've been. She has to live with no knowing when I will be called next, where I will be or for how long I will be gone. 

But she knows I am coming home to her every time. Nothing in this world will stop me from coming home to her because her husband always has a plan, a backup and a fail safe. 

be happy your husband is an organized, well mannered, and awesome man. Support the things you can and allow him control of things he can that don't hurt you or the marriage. But communication well maybe you need a approach. 

My wife has a few books she said helped her understand me and gave her ideas how to communicate.

1) A soldiers wife by Joanne trollope
2) Secret life of a military spouse by ??

She also suggested twoofus.org a sight primarily for dealing with deployment but may military spouses are there and they have great and useful ideas. They are people who have seen and done what you have and it may help you there.

The last thing we found as couple that helped was the following read it together and talk about it and he will see you struggled to and deployment was hard on you both: (I didn't really see this on her part that while I was away she kept everything together, stayed strong for me and when she spoke to me on the rare occasions we could she was composed and made it seem like life was good all the while she cried herself to sleep some nights.) Read it aloud together I know this one hit me hard. I didn't cry but I did understand her side better and she mine a little better.

A Soldier's Promise ...

I cannot promise you every night of my life. I cannot promise to be beside you for every difficult moment, every trial, every hardship. In truth, I can promise you that I will not be with you for most. I will leave you at inconvenient times. I may miss the births of our children. Any special date to us may be tainted with the anniversary of the death of one of my friends. I will ask you to take over whatever life we have built together for months and years at a time. And will then crash back into that life that you have used your sweat and your tears and your heartache to keep together and try to take it back as I knew it before. I will shut you out at times because it will be the best way for me to hold it together at that moment. I will lie to you. I will tell you I don't know things when I do. I will not always tell you where I am going, when I will be back, or who I am with. I may not call you for weeks and months and you will not be able to call me. You will ask questions that I won't answer. You will know answers to questions that you will hope you never need. I will share things with my brothers that you will never understand. They will know things about me that you never will. They will be a support to me in some things that you cannot be. I will miss birthdays. I will miss anniversaries. I will have to get to know our children over and over again. I may need time to process things that seem natural to everyone else. It will seem that someone - or something - will always take precedence over you. You may lose me long before you ever thought possible. I will uproot you and ask you to re-establish our family anywhere in the world, in any season, at any time - over and over again. Sand and mud will be tracked through your halls from the boots I am too tired to take off. I will leave you when you beg me not to. I will stand at attention while you cry beside me. I will not turn my head and I will walk away. I will knowingly break your heart. And I will do it again - and again.

I cannot promise you all of me. I cannot promise that to our children. I cannot promise you much of anything.

But if you will have me, I can promise that as I march away from you it is not without sharing your heartache. I promise you that every time I break your heart I will be breaking mine. Every time that I cannot answer you I will be protecting you. Whenever you want to call and you have no number to dial I will be wanting to do the same. I will protect everything that we have created together with every fiber of my being while you do the same back at home. I will honor you in everything - every moment that we are apart and every moment that I am with you. I will fight harder and push further knowing that I do so for you. I will see the faces of our children in every life that I protect. And I will carry you with me in everything until my sandy boots once again sit just inside our door. 

An Army Wife's promise ...

I cannot promise that I will not become frustrated when you leave me and the world seems to fall apart around me. I cannot promise that I will not curse those who sent you when the dryer breaks, and the transmission needs to be replaced, and the dog eats the couch all in the same week - most likely the week after you deploy. I cannot promise that the sand and mud that cakes my floor will not cause me to give you harsh looks and rude thoughts. I cannot promise that my heart will not be torn in twelve different ways when you march away from me. I cannot promise that I will not let my anger show when you refuse to answer questions. I cannot promise to understand why you share things with your comrades that you will not share with me. I cannot promise that there won't be times when my heartache makes its presence known before my pride can mask it. I cannot promise that I will not show my worry and my concern when it is best for you not to see it. I cannot promise to understand why you do so many of the things you do.

But I can promise that for as many tears of sadness and frustration and anger that are shed there will be double that of tears of pride. I can promise you that for every time you are away from me, I will learn to cherish the times that you are with me. In everything I will honor you and honor your sacrifice. I can promise to teach our children to do the same. I will use every moment that you are not with them to showthem the amazing man that you are through my actions and my pride. I can promise that there will never be a night where you are not the subject of my final prayer and the keeper of my dreams. I promise to try to be understanding that there are many things I will never understand. I promise to keep you with me in everything and to do my best to keep grace in this life. I will be strong for you as you are strong for me and I will carry you with me in every moment until your sandy boots again sit just inside our door.

Written by: Megan Williams


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

bbird1 said:


> As a vet myself let's ask.
> 
> Is he having affects from combat?
> 
> ...


Sent shivers down my spine buddy. Any man with a wife like this can kill a lion with his bare hands and laugh his ass off when he confronts Klingons. What a woman! you are blessed!


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Thanks for your support, bbird.
I need some time to think.

There are so many Vets / soldiers / Vets wifes on this board. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have an "ask a Vet" thread?


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

betulanana said:


> Thanks for your support, bbird.
> I need some time to think.
> 
> There are so many Vets / soldiers / Vets wifes on this board. Wouldn't it be a good idea to have an "ask a Vet" thread?


bbird started a petition by the way. 
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/suggestion-box/117041-new-forum-id-vets-spouses.html


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## bbird1 (May 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> bbird started a petition by the way.
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/suggestion-box/117041-new-forum-id-vets-spouses.html


The idea was not mine but i thought it a great idea. Sorry the former Marine in me and the seal in me always act on good ideas.


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## Drawman62 (Sep 7, 2013)

Some "stuff" leaves a lot open. If you are concerned about his mental health and want him to have an open forum with others of like background to help him through it, you should say so. Be kind and complimentary and supportive. Help him to understand that he is not getting all of the benefit that he could. Let him know that his capability to be a strong leader of the family may need a boost now and then. I would also keep it to one subject and not hit him with a laundry list of perceived wrong doing. Otherwise, you spread his attention to far. With men focused on solving problems, they don't need to get lost i trying to solve them all at once. Best of luck.


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## huebnem (May 8, 2013)

Once you deploy everything changes. It is hard to go back to the states even if you weren't in combat. Personally, all my military friends and I either have guys night at the bar or have a little bonfire in the backyard with some drinks. Hanging out with other vets or is going to be the key here. No matter how much the military tries therapy isn't going to get people where they need to buy...you battle buddies are the ones that will see you through.

Not everyone can help though...my wife deployed and it just made her worse. There is still the stigma where crying or letting your problems show is not manly or tough and if that is the message he is getting or holding onto its going to be hard. DO NOT ask for stories! It sucks but that's the way things are.

It took my friend 5 years to get the bad things out of his head and it was a long and difficult road. What he saw still haunts ME and what he did will affect him the rest of his life...but spilling it to other people who let him cry it out without judgment and a very supportive family helped.


If you are located near Georgia and he need someone to hang out with I would be willing to help...


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Drawman, thanks for your advice.

Added "not mention to many points" on my list.

huebnem, thanks for your reply. I am not anywhere near Georgia, but thanks a lot  
What did your friend do? Therapy or just talk to other Vets?

bbird, tanks a lot for picking up my idea and starting that poll. I hope a lot of people are looking into the suggestion box. I never did before. Otherwise there could just be a Vet-thread... but I won't be to involved there because of lack of time.
A thread like this might help a lot of people.

@ Vets: There is a Vet asking for help on the General discussion board ("PTSD and marriage"), may be some of you want to help.


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## huebnem (May 8, 2013)

betulanana said:


> huebnem, thanks for your reply. I am not anywhere near Georgia, but thanks a lot
> What did your friend do? Therapy or just talk to other Vets?


He tried therapy for a while, both military and civilian, which did help a bit however, this is where the stigma often comes up. It doesn't matter if anyone mentions it or not the fact remains that its in the head of everyone in the military. The military breeds an environment of "how will people think of me" during various situations. I have know people that have continued their duties and physical activities with kidney stones, broken toes, noses, and various other medical issues because if they go to the doctor about it the will look "weak" and that causes a ton of problems. You can see how that mentality spreads.

That is why talking to other vets helps. They have been there are more often than not they provide some of the best rehab for the situation...often times better than an actual therapist and its usually not on purpose. Despite the many stupid people in the military that try to maintain that "hard" attitude there are often many that still know that things affect us all differently and it doesn't make us any less of a person. Myself and many others are here to help.

I don't know what your husband went through. But to share, my friend shot a car with women and children in it at an Entry Control Point during the height of the war. It had blown through barriers and was warned multiple times to stop. He stopped it and they found out that it was crammed with explosives. In that area it would have been a slaughter if it had made it through so he did the right thing. But he was sent home because he was terrified at what he had done and broke down, barely able to feed and wash himself. His wife left him because he was damaged...it took us a long time just to get him to crawl out of the bottle.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

deleted


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## huebnem (May 8, 2013)

Yes it is a sad story but its stuff like that which is kept hidden or away from the general public which is making help harder to find. There are outbursts that make it onto the media and suddenly we are all dangerous freaks that can't handle a bad day? No, this is what needs to be put out there...we don't get like that because we got stuck in traffic or because someone got our drink order wrong...

I really don't care what people think of me because the best revenge, or whatever, is living well. I am an awesome mechanic but even in my field there are things I can't do...and I hate admitting that. I will put up a false front on occasion where I "know what I am doing" and I don't...so I am guilty of it too...

I regret to say that the stigma will stay and it will be hard to turn that "what will they think" attitude around because for all the help a person gets, all it takes is one brainless idiot to destroy that progress...


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

huebnem said:


> Yes it is a sad story but its stuff like that which is kept hidden or away from the general public which is making help harder to find. There are outbursts that make it onto the media and suddenly we are all dangerous freaks that can't handle a bad day? No, this is what needs to be put out there...we don't get like that because we got stuck in traffic or because someone got our drink order wrong...
> 
> I really don't care what people think of me because the best revenge, or whatever, is living well. I am an awesome mechanic but even in my field there are things I can't do...and I hate admitting that. I will put up a false front on occasion where I "know what I am doing" and I don't...so I am guilty of it too...
> 
> I regret to say that the stigma will stay and it will be hard to turn that "what will they think" attitude around because for all the help a person gets, all it takes is one brainless idiot to destroy that progress...


That stuff is kept away from the public in order not to drag them down but believe me people know that the job of a soldier is not easy.
Off course there will always be people who are idiots: Why care about their opinions?


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## committed_guy (Nov 22, 2011)

betulanana said:


> I have a question to all the men.
> 
> I want to talk with my husband about some stuff. Most likely not this weekend but the next one.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why you would get yourself dolled-up. My fear is that if you go to make yourself attractive to him but then tell him all these things that are wrong about him he may think you are trying to manipulate him, which would be a huge turn-off for me. 

Just be honest and straight forward. Something we learned in marriage counseling is the smiley face approach to talking about issues with the spouse. First say something positive, then tell him what he is doing and how that affects you, then finish with another positive about him. Whatever the issue is you need to not make it about him personally, but what he is doing. So saying "you leave your socks on the floor so therefore your a scumbag", instead say "I love you, and I appreciate how you do x,y,z around the house but you leaving socks on the floor is a problem for me because it makes me feel a,b,c. I feel loved when you do this or that..."

Also, don't make a big deal over little stuff. If socks on the floor type of issue you can ask but don't let it ruin your marriage.

If you can't talk to him about it, maybe he isn't mature or receptive enough to talk about it, then you may need a third party to help. A friend or pastor maybe? or even counseling? It has to be someone who can be objective.


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## betulanana (Jul 20, 2013)

Before I wrote this post I wrote a letter to my husband. 

He wrote me back, I answered him and we had a written conversation.

THANK YOU for helping me !!!!!

My husband asked me to delete what I wrote about some of his issues here and I will do that now.


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