# Weight, Attraction & Importance in a relationship



## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

I am miffed. I responded to the thread below and was amazed that everyone was so tough on the poster.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/43790-can-marriage-succeed-w-o-sex.html

The two were virgins and had never even seen each other nude prior to their wedding night. BTW they are still in their 20's.

In a nutshell, she has been putting on significant weight since they first met. Prior to the wedding she too got personal trainers to get in shape for the wedding, which obviously was important to her. Since marriage she has put on another 50 lbs (no children) and is very upset about their lack of intimacy.

He has admitted it is because "HE IS NOT TURNED ON AND ATTRACTED". For being honest everyone has jumped on him and told him basically to suck it up and how shallow he is.

Well sorry to say I am shallow too to say he has every right to feel like he does and wonder why people here seem to not accept that weight & appearance & how one carries themselves all play significant roles in sexual attraction.

One can easily say beauty is only skin deep, but there is much more to it than that. Yes I will rail against those who complain as people age and things sag and bodies change, which is natural. But if they maintain health, fitness their weight & appearance, then yes there are issues when some complain.

However in this thread I was gobsmacked at the responses and the lack of compassion shown.

Yes I am lucky, my spouse still looks fabulous and I never have had to face the dilemma, issues that the poster has and am happy for that.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Not everyone feels the same on one subject. That's why TAM is such a great place.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

I'm with you actually. My husband is VERY shallow in that he prefers me skinny. And I prefer he work so I can stay at home with our kids.

A fair trade I think. I work hard to stay fit and attractive. He works hard to provide for me. Win/win.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Not everyone feels the same on one subject. That's why TAM is such a great place.


That's fine.... But read the thread and it looks like I am the only shallow one on TAM. In actuality, most were pretty rough on him and all told him it was his problem.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Having an attractive wife is one of the top 5 of HIS needs in the his needs/her needs book.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> That's fine.... But read the thread and it looks like I am the only shallow one on TAM. In actuality, most were pretty rough on him and all told him it was his problem.


I didn't read it but will take your word for it. Again, not everyone is going to feel the same on one subject. I personally am like you -- I want my partner to be fit--or that they make the effort to be fit. If my partner gained a ton of pounds & had zero desire to change that, I would prob be turned off. But then I like to be fit and enjoy putting in the work to take care of my body with diet & fitness. 

But some people do get offended at that. Different strokes...


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Its because when women get together they become very gender centric, and then justify their own desires as "preferences" while men are just shallow.

Sorry any woman or man for that matter, who gains 50 lbs, that is gross. They should be ashamed.
I would divorce a woman if she did that to me. 

No way in hell, would I have a fat wife.

I can't imagine a bigger turn off or a bigger embarassement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I would still love my dh the same if he got fat, but the sexual attraction would not be as high. Same with him for me. Sounds really bad but it's true.


I'm actually less shallow than my husband but I do have a weight limit. 20 pounds over healthy weight and I'm still attracted to him. 30 and he's pushing it. Yes I've seen it so I know. At the moment he's down 20 pounds (9 to go) and yes it makes a HUGE difference in attraction.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Unhappy2011 said:


> Its because when women get together they become very gender centric, and then justify their own desires as "preferences" while men are just shallow.


Um, okaaay.



Unhappy2011 said:


> I would divorce a woman if she did that to me.


She'd be doing it to herself, not you. But yeah, you or anyone else has the option to leave at anytime.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> That's fine.... But read the thread and it looks like I am the only shallow one on TAM. In actuality, most were pretty rough on him and all told him it was his problem.


I didn't respond only because the thread was such a trainwreck that I didn't see any useful input I could have. 

The problem starts the moment you use the word "shallow" to describe something which is important to a person. From there, it's all downhill. Women's emotional needs are lofty and pure. Men's are shallow and base. There you have it.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> I didn't respond only because the thread was such a trainwreck that I didn't see any useful input I could have.
> 
> The problem starts the moment you use the word "shallow" to describe something which is important to a person. From there, it's all downhill. Women's emotional needs are lofty and pure. Men's are shallow and base. There you have it.


But in this case (and I ignored the thread for 4 days too), I felt for the young man's story and the fact that he was piled on and not a single person told him his feelings were VALID. 

Every time a virgin bride/groom posts, I cringe knowing where it is going.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Jeff/BC said:


> I didn't respond only because the thread was such a trainwreck that I didn't see any useful input I could have.


:rofl:


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> But in this case (and I ignored the thread for 4 days too), I felt for the young man's story and the fact that he was piled on and not a single person told him his feelings were VALID. Every time a virgin bride/groom posts, I cringe knowing where it is going.


I completely agree. But I also think that there is some wisdom and honor both in the old adage, "When in Rome, wear a toga". I cringe at an awful lot of the threads here. There's not anything I can or should do about that except to try to understand why people say such things. I do my best to at least cobble a spare bed sheet into a toga.

One of the features in this particular "Rome" is that men's feelings are not valid. I get that. I'm trying to figure out why and how such a thing actually works out for some.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Um, okaaay.


As a gender, women are much more likely to circle the wagons to defend each other, even if it is absurd position.

This is very noticeable.



Jellybeans said:


> *She'd be doing it to herself, not you.* But yeah, you or anyone else has the option to leave at anytime.


Ok she let herself go.

I never understand why that distinction is so important to some people.

For example: people always say, you gotta lose weight for yourself not someone else.

Yes and no.

Yes, I eat right and exercise for myself. I enjoy it. I like working on my health and take it seriously. I also like feeling good and looking my best. But part of that does have to do with other people. I don't live on an island. I don't take care of myself just to admire myself in the mirror. So yeah I do it for others as I want other people to notice, especially the other gender. Why wouldn't I? Call me vain, I don't care.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Unhappy, thanks for lumping us all together in the same gravy boat. Sheesh.


Hey no problem. 

I am gonna start a thread about the damn Zorastrians pretty soon. Have these people ever heard of a cross walk?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Unhappy2011 said:


> As a gender, women are much more likely to *circle the wagons *to defend each other, even if it is absurd position.


Ah, yes. The vagina circle!



Unhappy2011 said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Yes, I eat right and exercise for myself. I enjoy it. I like working on my health and take it seriously. I also like feeling good and looking my best. But part of that does have to do with other people. I don't live on an island. I don't take care of myself just to admire myself in the mirror. So yeah I do it for others as I want other people to notice, especially the other gender. Why wouldn't I? Call me vain, I don't care.


That's awesome for you. 

Personally, I like to stay fit/eat right for me. 



LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Unhappy, thanks for lumping us all together in the same gravy boat. Sheesh.


It's always fun when people do that. "All women are X... All men are X."


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

This is why the first response is so true. In my situation we have seen so much so much pain hurt and other stuff that at the end of the day some extra weight becomes less important.

For me personally there are way more dangerous things that can happen to my marriage than weight gain. More power to you if you're not in that boat.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

sinnister said:


> This is why the first response is so true. In my situation we have seen so much so much pain hurt and other stuff that at the end of the day some extra weight becomes less important.
> 
> For me personally there are way more dangerous things that can happen to my marriage than weight gain. More power to you if you're not in that boat.


And if this started slowly before marriage, and exploded immediately after marriage (50lbs) and there were no kids, you'd be okay?


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> In a nutshell, she has been putting on significant weight since they first met. Prior to the wedding she too got personal trainers to get in shape for the wedding, which obviously was important to her. Since marriage she has put on another 50 lbs (no children) and is very upset about their lack of intimacy.
> 
> He has admitted it is because "HE IS NOT TURNED ON AND ATTRACTED". For being honest everyone has jumped on him and told him basically to suck it up and how shallow he is.


I'll have to check the post out. Out of curiosity, were the majority of people jumping on him men, women or both? If the answer is men I'd have to seriously doubt their honesty.

To say, I'd still love my wife if she packed on a ridiculous amount of weight, well of course. But to say it's not important or wouldn't mean ANYTHING? Come on guy.

We're visual creatures, and unless you have a thing for big women that's going to bug most guys. I can't blame the OP one bit for his feelings. I'm sure he loves his wife regardless but love and attraction are two very different words.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Mavash. said:


> I'm with you actually. My husband is VERY shallow in that he prefers me skinny. And I prefer he work so I can stay at home with our kids.
> 
> A fair trade I think. I work hard to stay fit and attractive. He works hard to provide for me. Win/win.


And I'm sure your relationship is better for it. I believe in throwing politically correctness out of the window in relationships.

Some may frown on you for being "just" a housewife and expecting your poor husband to be the breadwinner. It's not PC but it works.

And by that same token, some would frown on your husband for making his poor, devoted wife who stays at home with the kids still take care of her body and stay in shape. It's not PC but it works.

You get what you want and he gets what he wants. There is absolutely nothing LESS sexy than PC standards. I applaud you two.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Blue Moon said:


> I'll have to check the post out. Out of curiosity, were the majority of people jumping on him men, women or both? If the answer is men I'd have to seriously doubt their honesty.
> 
> To say, I'd still love my wife if she packed on a ridiculous amount of weight, well of course. But to say it's not important or wouldn't mean ANYTHING? Come on guy.
> 
> We're visual creatures, and unless you have a thing for big women that's going to bug most guys. I can't blame the OP one bit for his feelings. I'm sure he loves his wife regardless but love and attraction are two very different words.


Both men & women..... I think sinnister above is a male too. I was the ONLY person defending him. I even made a point to kick start the discussion and no such luck.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

I didn't follow that thread, but if the husband's sexual attraction is gone because the wife gained 50 pounds, I wouldn't criticize him for how he's feeling. His feelings are his feelings. Love and sexual attraction are two different things. People often seem to think the two are one and the same. 

If my husband gained 50 pounds, I would still love him. He's my life partner and the most important person in my life. However, a 50 pound weight gain would definitely affect my sexual attraction to him. It doesn't make me shallow. Sexual attraction isn't unconditional. This doesn't mean I would stray or find a new man, but if he wanted our sex life to go back to what it was, he'd have to lose some or all of the weight. I would do the same for him if I were that overweight.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

ok.

Well..

I love my stbx, He could be strutting around naked doing the windmill with his penis and screaming like king kong and I'd still love him.

I don't love lifting someones stomach to make sex comfortable, I don't love having sweat raining down on my face to the point where it burns my eyes, I don't love either of us getting out of breath, (but we're both smokers so that's unavoidable)

I like big guys, I can't stand obesity. After a while of having to do said things, and taking the effort to feed us right, joining a gym together, going for long walks together to no avail, (thank you ho-hos and mc donalds) it wears on you. I don't think I am shallow, but I don't want extra rolls or a fupa pushing against my pelvic area and needing to be placed properly for proper penetration and intercourse.

I don't want to have to lift your stomach to give you oral (haven't had to do that one, just saying) and while I can find anyone gorgeous if I love them, personal maintenance is important. It doesn't make me shallow I don't think, its just a personal preference.

who wants to come home to a spouse who put on 50lbs, in their underwear filling the void left by their self loathing by stuffing their face with cheetos?

It's important, on both accounts. I never wanted to let myself go for stbx, I wanted to stay a hot sexy wife. I don't understand slobbing it, packing on pounds, and then being offended that your spouse isn't sexually attracted to you as much. I think it's a little um...lacking the proper word here.. to assume that unconditional love means unconditionally sexy.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> And if this started slowly before marriage, and exploded immediately after marriage (50lbs) and there were no kids, you'd be okay?


Some of these people amaze me.

There's another thread where the woman OP is 5'5 and 280 lbs and wondering if her Hubs has an issue with her body.

Or another where the woman said she was 5'1 and 150 lbs and can't figure out why her husband is not interested in sex.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

I think a lot of it relates to us using sexual desire to derive our self worth.

"there's nothing wrong with me, look how many guys want me!"

(not that everyone needs to be skinny, I am not saying that by any means.)


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

CLucas976 said:


> "there's nothing wrong with me, look how many guys want me!"


I have seen that before. That's such a bad trap for a woman to base her sense of self worth on.

Just because random guys want to have sex with a woman, that doesn't mean anything.

Men of quality looking for a real relationship and random guys on the street who leer and cat call are two different types of men.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

In light of CLucas's comments above, I understand better why women say this below. 



Jellybeans said:


> That's awesome for you.
> 
> Personally, I like to stay fit/eat right for me.


Which at first I didn't understand. But I am not a woman.

Walking a mile in the other gender's shoes would probably be very enlightening for both genders.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

That thread is a cautionary tale on marrying as virgins. Bad idea, plain and simple.

He also said that she lost weight for her wedding night, but he still didn't feel attracted to her. So, she was overweight before he married her. Don't marry someone who is prone to weight gain if it is a big issue for you. 

There are plenty of men out there, me included, who like big women. She could have married someone who likes a fuller figure and had a fulfilling sex life. He married someone he wasn't sexually attracted to and therefore condemned her to a passionless marriage, or divorce. He is at fault.


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## Johnnyboy (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi,

when I was quite young I only liked the looks of skinny women. And the more their face looked like a model's, the better. I had a skinny, pretty girlfriend one time and as I got to know her better, her ugly personality seemed to bleed over into her face and body. Before long I didn't like her looks at all.

And conversely I had a girlfriend one time who looked fairly 'plain'. Her personality was so wonderful though that I just loved to be with her and her good vibes seemed to drift into her face and body so that I thought she was just beautiful.

Now I like a wide variety of body and face types. So if any of you guys are shunning your gals because they aren't up to your standards, send them over to my conga line where they will be most appreciated.

If worse comes to worse, "Beauty is just a light switch away."

JB

_______________
Before you criticize a person, walk a mile in their shoes. Then, not only will you be a mile away, you'll have their shoes!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

As a nice guy, I am almost always completely intimidated by the sight of an attractive woman - my formula meant finding the one most attractive that I was comfortable enough to approach and who were forward enough to make the first move on me. So my history was larger girls/women with some pretty features, not quite obese but women that definitely had body issues.

The one woman I was with since separating was hourglass shaped, thinner in the waist yet still curvy, and shorter. To me... wow, what a different feeling, it is pretty much like I always thought making love to a more proportional, fitter woman would be like. Perhaps it was just new experience, different point in my life, meeting of the minds, but the sex was incredible - so many more possibilities as far as positions, visual stimulation, places we could fit haha.

Perhaps by finding less than "ideal" partners (as in physical attractiveness) I was fundamentally dishonest? Maybe that helped doom my marriage from the start, however to me I have always thought I look beyond the purely physical, we can't all have 10's (nor would I want to) or even 9's or 8's right? (and by the rank I mean more than just looks, i mean total sex rank, but looks ultimately is a major part of that for me - you don't have to have playboy looks but I am definitely aroused by the feminine).


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## diwali123 (Feb 17, 2012)

Attractiveness and appearance are on the emotional need quiz at marriage builders. I think both sexes have things they prefer in their mate. Little things like a guy growing a beard, or dressing sloppily, not smelling good, wearing worn out clothes can turn a woman off. 
It's also been proven that couples do best when they are at a similar level of attractiveness. The divorce rate among people who undergo gastric bypass surgery is staggering. 
I don't think there's anything wring with someone saying they would prefer their mate try to stay in shape. If they take medication or have an issue that prevents them from losing weight then there's not much they can do. I would see it myself aside if a health issue. It's not healthy to be overweight and I want my mate to be with me as long as he can. 
I am considering getting gastric bypass surgery myself and I'm worried that he might not be attracted to thin me because I've been plus size since we met and we have a great sex life.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## studley (Oct 19, 2011)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> Well sorry to say I am shallow too to say he has every right to feel like he does and wonder why people here seem to not accept that weight & appearance & how one carries themselves all play significant roles in sexual attraction.


I agree with your train of thought. My wife has gone from a trim nicely shaped woman into a over 200 lb lump. Sure we change as we age. She knows she is overweight (and has heart problems too) but does nothing about it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

diwali123 said:


> Attractiveness and appearance are on the emotional need quiz at marriage builders. I think both sexes have things they prefer in their mate. Little things like a guy growing a beard, or dressing sloppily, not smelling good, wearing worn out clothes can turn a woman off.
> *It's also been proven that couples do best when they are at a similar level of attractiveness*...


For me this is a hard pill to swallow, because at the beginning of my relationship with ex I think I was the better looking one, more in shape, youthful good looks (though she is 4 years my junior and was the more youthful one). I felt like pretty good genetic stock.

Throughout our marriage, her weight went up, I began feeling more overwhelmed with burdens especially after she gave birth to our child and the last couple years were unkind to me as I felt worn down and used up - she was using that time, and our family income, putting most of the constraints of parenting and providing on me while she worked on herself. By the end I felt like the victim of a vampire, all used up, out of shape, exhausted, broken and depressed and she was the beneficiary, got in shape, made all sorts of young and fun single friends of both sexes, bought all kinds of sexy clothes and fashion accessories I never got to see.

She is way "sexier" now than she ever was with me and it makes me a little bitter to know that my hard work is a part of what made that possible while I look in the mirror at the bald greying, out of shape, wrinkled face guy with chipped eyeglasses and a 6 year old wardrobe. I'm working on myself now but finding it takes a lot of work to overcome the inertia, and feeling like my years are precious right now, wishing I could snap my fingers and just be the person I'd like to be.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I think they are both right in this. If I put on 50 lbs and let myself go appearance-wise, and my wife wasn't attracted to me anymore and refused me sexually, I don't know if I could blame her. Do I think its wrong though, yes, for better or for worse means in the bedroom as well. At the same time, if I was 50 lbs heavier, she never would have dated me to begin with, she has right to be with the man she married/dated - and that means how I treat her, AND how I look. 
Now, all of us know who aren't in our early 20s anymore that its not easy to look eternally young. So there has to be grace and love there. We are going to age, put on some weight, lose some hair, stretch marks, etc. But true love tends to gloss over these "imperfections". 
So in short, I think she has a duty to look her best for her husband, to try and look the way she did when they dated. At the same time, if he's tuning her out sexually because of her weight, that's wrong as well. We need to share ALL of ourselves with our spouse - that's part of the deal.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

This is not an easy subject for a thread because it can be such a sensitive subject. You can't lump attraction into the type of love that you pledge "for better or worse". My wife has always been more willing to bring up the subject to me than the inverse, but it is usually about my general fitness level. I've never let myself gain weight other than once when I went through a tough time of acceptance about the prognosis for a mild muscle disease. Problem is, I sometimes just get so caught up in things that I lose A LOT of weight. Then, I'll bulk up to my normal weight and size, where I'm pretty muscular. Part of the reason for lifting weights for many years was for her. My wife does not like the skinny look at all. 

My wife has struggled with food addiction behaviors after finally making real progress in dealing with depression. Its something that I carry alot of guilt over because it really impacts my attraction for her. We've always had a very sexual relationship, but it is so different when she can't stand to be seen. When we almost divorced, one area that she kept bringing up was that she had fought so many issues with the depression that she had never gotten to know me as a person (seriously, for 25 years, don't ask her what I do for a living, other than the confusing name). She was right. We're working on that, and things are going well, but I feel like there would be so much more to go on if we had a closer relationship. I've always looked forward to growing old with her, and the normal weight gain that sometimes comes with aging wasn't a factor. Excessive weight, though, is a big attraction-killer for me, though.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> There are plenty of men out there, me included, who like big women.


I do too and that has not always been the case. It grows on you


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Halien said:


> My wife has struggled with food addiction behaviors after finally making real progress in dealing with depression.


I had this problem as a facet of depression and the only reason I didn't gain more than I did was because I have a high metabolism. Ironically to beat depression I had to cut carbs and sugar therefore I dropped the weight. 

Depression stinks and if I had to have it I always wondered why I couldn't have the kind where you QUIT eating. LOL


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Lon said:


> For me this is a hard pill to swallow, because at the beginning of my relationship with ex I think I was the better looking one, more in shape, youthful good looks (though she is 4 years my junior and was the more youthful one). I felt like pretty good genetic stock.
> 
> Throughout our marriage, her weight went up, I began feeling more overwhelmed with burdens especially after she gave birth to our child and the last couple years were unkind to me as I felt worn down and used up - she was using that time, and our family income, putting most of the constraints of parenting and providing on me while she worked on herself. By the end I felt like the victim of a vampire, all used up, out of shape, exhausted, broken and depressed and she was the beneficiary, got in shape, made all sorts of young and fun single friends of both sexes, bought all kinds of sexy clothes and fashion accessories I never got to see.
> 
> She is way "sexier" now than she ever was with me and it makes me a little bitter to know that my hard work is a part of what made that possible while I look in the mirror at the bald greying, out of shape, wrinkled face guy with chipped eyeglasses and a 6 year old wardrobe. I'm working on myself now but finding it takes a lot of work to overcome the inertia, and feeling like my years are precious right now, wishing I could snap my fingers and just be the person I'd like to be.


This is so sad and so not fair.

My secret prayer is that bad karma finds her.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Mavash. said:


> This is so sad and so not fair.
> 
> My secret prayer is that bad karma finds her.


Well life isn't always fair, eh? I don't pray for bad karma for her at all, I do pray for good karma for me though  It was very sad for me at the time I felt horrible... I realized just yesterday that not only did I lose my W and have to deal with all that [email protected], but I think it is the first time I've ever had my heart broken.

And now I've mostly gotten all that stuff behind me, I just want to keep on improving myself, and I think as it starts to happen it will be kinda like the feeling of losing weight - as you make a little progress you not only get closer to your goal but it also becomes easier to work at it because you've shed all that excess that was making it so hard to move.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Lon said:


> I just want to keep on improving myself, and I think as it starts to happen it will be kinda like the feeling of losing weight - as you make a little progress you not only get closer to your goal but it also becomes easier to work at it because you've shed all that excess that was making it so hard to move.


But YOU have to take action you can't just wait for it. And fwiw it's NEVER easy. Just sayin. 

3 rounds of therapy, beating depression, managing ptsd, overcoming a bad marriage, getting disowned by my parents, and I still have to make the conscious monumental effort each and every day to love myself. The only thing that has gotten easier is knowing WHAT to do. The action part is just as hard today as it was when I first started on this journey 13 year ago.


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## suesmith (Jan 5, 2012)

Disclaimer: I am an overweight woman. 

I'm not lazy. I work out. I work fulltime on my feet. I'm at the tail end of menopause. I've been overweight most of my adult life. I basically have an extremely slow metabolism. (as per my Dr) I'm not saying I never overeat, I do occasionally. 

The only way I can lose weight is to cut my eating to NO MORE then 1200 calories a day, every day. I can eat slightly more to maintain. (absolutely no more then 1500 a day, and I will slowly gain on that)

Now, my question for you is, are you willing to eat the same diet that your wife does to help support her weight loss/maintenance goals? Or, do you believe that your home should be still be stocked with all manner of goodies etc for you? 

I really believe that many men have no idea how difficult is for women to lose, or even maintain weight. How willing would you be to give up your favorite foods for the rest of your life, no exceptions. No snacks, no sugar, limited carbs, very small portions of what you can eat. No alcohol at all. No exceptions. Would you be willing to do that forever to keep your partner happy with how you look? 

I cant begin to tell you how frustrating it is to be slowly losing, and then go out for a nice dinner, and the next morning the scale says you gained 3 lbs, or 5lbs. And it takes 2 weeks of starving yourself to lose it. 

This is the reality for many women who are entering middle age. 

I'm just questioning the willingness for the men who feel the way they do in this thread, to do what they are asking their women to do. Do you ever bring home snacks, ice cream or chips? Do you even stop at DQ for an ice cream cone? Ever have a glass of wine or a beer with a nice dinner or your buddies? Do you ever eat fast food? Ever drink a milkshake? Those would all be off limits forever! 

Can you, would you do it, if thats what it took?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

suesmith said:


> I cant begin to tell you how frustrating it is to be slowly losing, and then go out for a nice dinner, and the next morning the scale says you gained 3 lbs, or 5lbs. And it takes 2 weeks of starving yourself to lose it.
> 
> This is the reality for many women who are entering middle age.


really? I'd suggest a new scale, if it says you gain 3-5 lbs every meal it is either inaccurate or else your portions are much too large. Also if you have to starve yourself after binging in order to get your weight down it is no wonder you have a slow metabolism.

I'm not trying to be mean or overly critical, it just seems you are either exaggerating on purpose or really have a different perception of food than I.

I for one feel fortunate that as a man I have higher muscle mass, and more testosterone to keep it that way (thus have a higher resting metabolism) I don't envy women whom have bodies that aggressively are trying to store every calorie. I am also a little above my ideal weight, and it really is psychological to me, I just don't like the feelings of hunger that go along with trying to keep my weight lower, however when I am disciplined I find that the best way to lose is to control portion size and also to EAT OFTEN - the hunger pangs will not be as strong and you will get used to it so it becomes less noticable AND as your body gets used to smaller meals more often your metabolic rate will seem to adapt providing you with more energy throughout the day - so long as you don't get in the habit of skipping meals.


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## suesmith (Jan 5, 2012)

Lon, No, the scale is fine. I know this is how it is for me, but also for many others. I didnt say this was after every meal, just a nice meal out, maybe a steakhouse, etc. 

Its much easier for men to lose or maintain, yes, probably because of metabolism etc. The techniques you mention are all good and work for many. But for just as many, they dont work. 

I'm not trying to take shots at the people who have this opinion, nor am I trying to make excuses. More just asking if you men are willing to do what you are asking the women to do to keep their bodies they way YOU want them. Because, the reality is, what I posted above is the reality for many women.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I think you should start looking at yourself in the mirror every morning, and saying, "I am Lon and I _______!! List one thing per day that you know is great about yourself and keep doing it until it sinks in!!!
> 
> Otherwise, your ex-wife wins and you deny yourself happiness and the chance to find a good woman.


You know, I think you are absolutely right! I am a little hard on myself and I think I may sound even harder on myself on this site because I basically use this place to vent pretty much everything that goes through my head these days. I know I have good qualities, lots of them. Just feel like I haven't been able to put them to good use, that's the part I'm trying to get a handle on. So thanks for the encouragement I do appreciate it.

Now... back to the topic of this thread!


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

This was not a thread questioning larger men or women or asking us to reconsider our views of beauty or attraction. It was a specific response to a thread that bothered me.

Weight is a scary difficult topic and outside being "skinny fat" I am very lucky. 

There is a reason this was posted in 'Sex in Marriage'.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Everyone has the right to be desired and to have fulfilling sex within the marriage. To go into a marriage with someone you are not sexually attracted to is deception and robs your partner of a healthy sex life.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

suesmith said:


> Now, my question for you is, are you willing to eat the same diet that your wife does to help support her weight loss/maintenance goals? Or, do you believe that your home should be still be stocked with all manner of goodies etc for you?


My wife will readily admit that she can't really get started on a better diet or exercise plan unless I'm there with her, doing it first. Problem is, she hates exercise, other than walking, so we even went so far as going to a doctor to have her muscle mass calculated, and they indicated that the muscle loss with dieting and aging (sarcopenia) was so advanced, even in her late thirties, that she really needed to gain about 25 to 30 lbs in muscle, which would improve the metabolism. Through the years, we've added about $30,000 in gym equipment, nearly half for her. As a nurse practioner, she has always pushed our children to eat healthy and exercise, but her own struggles are a very personal nature, like an addiction. I'll eat mostly vegetarian with her, with basic protein added, but in recent years the problem is with binge eating. She once followed the exercise plan of the doctor, and upped her calorie intake while still losing weight, but eventually lost interest. I've always encouraged her to be the healthy weight, not the lower weight she states as her goal. We donated to the building of a community center in our neighborhood, at my wife's suggestion, and she found it easier to work out there for a time, in structured classes.


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## Template (Aug 2, 2011)

suesmith said:


> Disclaimer: I am an overweight woman.
> 
> I'm not lazy. I work out. I work fulltime on my feet. I'm at the tail end of menopause. I've been overweight most of my adult life. I basically have an extremely slow metabolism. (as per my Dr) I'm not saying I never overeat, I do occasionally.
> 
> ...


I am in a similar situation as you, Sue. In my early 60's and have to watch every calorie, I mean every calorie I eat. My H is very, very attached to his need for visual attractiveness. I recently reached my (his) goal weight (BMI of 20) and have a devil of a time maintaining. Note, that as you lose weight, your BMR gets lower, so you are allowed less calories just to maintain. I am hungry most of the time and am constantly having to tell myself no to anything other than broiled chicken and fish, steamed or roasted vegetables, yogurt, and egg whites. I no longer enjoy holidays or going out to eat because any deviation from my plan and I either pay by starving myself for a few days after or exercise excessively to be sure I do not gain an ounce. My H stuffs his face with snack foods, candy, and ice cream while I sit with yet another glass of ice water. He does not like chicken or fish, so I am stuck making separate (and delicious) dinners for him that include steak or pork chops, potatoes, rice......all things that I will never be able to eat ever again. 
I figured I would be able to enjoy my golden years. Relax and get a hobby I would enjoy. Instead, my hobby is keeping thin. I start every day weighing myself and depending on what the scale says, add extra exercise to my daily workout, cut calories, etc. and obsess about what the scale will say the next morning. Food, weight, exercise, and thinness are my obsession. There is never a moment I can let my guard down, never a time I can just enjoy a meal. It is not a pleasant way to live, making thinness my ultimate priority because my husband will leave if I am not thin enough.
This kind of life breeds resentment and changes how I feel towards H and will shortly lead to separation and eventually, divorce.


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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

suesmith said:


> Disclaimer: I am an overweight woman.
> 
> I'm not lazy. I work out. I work fulltime on my feet. I'm at the tail end of menopause. I've been overweight most of my adult life. I basically have an extremely slow metabolism. (as per my Dr) I'm not saying I never overeat, I do occasionally.
> 
> ...



I actually had a teacher who had a similar issue. She is as healthy as should could be with her eating, has gone through numerous dieticians, work out groups, can bike from here to montreal in a day and back, she just cannot get to be the size she wants to be. (and this is years I watched her work on this) she'd plateau and that was it. Actually got kicked out of LA weightloss, they stated she clearly must have not been following their rules.

The thing is, being healthy and staying in shape IS a lifestyle change. A permanent one. I eat around 1200 calories a day or less (less is not good, but I only eat when I'm hungry)

And you pointed out a real point, It is hard to do it yourself, and not have your SO do it with you. it defeats it almost. However, it takes a notion to do it for yourself, and be selfish enough to stick with it for you. I can go out and watch everyone eat a days worth of calories in a meal, and still eat from the healthy low calorie menu. I live with 9 people, and eat my own health food while they're eating everything else.

I think the bottom line with weight and attraction, is what you are comfortable with. What makes you feel good about you, because when your spouse is confident and comfortable in their own skin, it adds to the sex appeal. when your spouse can want to be healthy, and want to take care of themselves to be around longer for you, it's an entirely different situation than merely fat vs. skinny.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I guess what I'm saying is if you love someone, staying as attractive as possible for them is part of the deal.


Is it? It's a part of your deal. More broadly, "pleasing our partner" is certainly a part of Carol's and my deal. 

But I get the general sense that for a lot of folks, when they were standing in front of the alter, the only part that really mattered was "till death do us part." That's where that sense of entitlement comes from -- the idea that they can do anything or nothing and it doesn't matter because they conned their partner into committing. It's the myth of unconditional love.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

As a woman who has been both fat and healthy, I think its time for me to "weigh in" on the subject. I haven't read the thread either. 

The reality is that most men are visual. Its been scientifically proven there is a proportion that is ideal and most men are attracted to something close to that (with variations of course). It is so easy to criticise a man for being concerned about not being attracted to his wife anymore because of their weight. Biology is biology and what is the point of villifying a man because of his genetic make up?? Its like asking him (a generalisation of course) to not watch sport, tinker with machines or scratch his b***s.

The flip side of that would be to tell an overweight person to just eat properly and exercise. Yeah right, its that easy!

I remember my H saying to me, he would love me even if I was big (helps that his sister & mother are not small ladies), but as I gained weight over the years, I felt some of the attraction slip away. BUT he still loved me and made love to me because at the end of the day, he loved what was inside more than what was on the outside. He tried subtly (and very diplomatically) to ask me to lose weight and how much it bothered him. We now talk openly about those feelings, but at the time I refused to hear it (now there is a whole thread in itself).

Now that I am at a healthy weight, we are finally (well attempting to anyway) dealing with the backlog of issues that were hidden for me by the weight. Maybe people should be asking the thread author why his wife has put a protective layer around herself.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> I think you should start looking at yourself in the mirror every morning, and saying, "I am Lon and I _______!! List one thing per day that you know is great about yourself and keep doing it until it sinks in!!!


In the immortal words of Stuart Smalley:



> I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and dog-gone it, people like me.


In all seriousness, there is real value in repeating these thoughts to ourselves. Convincing ourself, if you will, of what is actually true.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> In the immortal words of Stuart Smalley:
> 
> 
> 
> In all seriousness, there is real value in repeating these thoughts to ourselves. Convincing ourself, if you will, of what is actually true.


Yep, we are our own harshest critics. I love the Eleanor Roosevelt quote, "No one can make you feel inferior without your consent."


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

suesmith said:


> The only way I can lose weight is to cut my eating to NO MORE then 1200 calories a day, every day. I can eat slightly more to maintain. (absolutely no more then 1500 a day, and I will slowly gain on that)


As a middle aged woman who works out 5 days a week want to know how many calories I eat?

1,000 - 1,200 can go as high as 1,400 to maintain. 

It's how I stay tiny. Sucks but the payoff of looking good in a bikini is totally worth it.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Weight always ends up being such a 'weighty' polarizing subject... I personally don't know how to bridge that gap easily.

However, in the weight thread that was referenced in the OP's original post, the problem wasn't so much the wife's weight, as it was the husband's deception ... deceiving himself that he could marry a woman he had known for ages who struggled with weight and who he wasn't really attracted to, and his deception of her, because he wanted to deny her an intimate relationship because of her weight after marriage even though he had eyes when they got married and married her knowing she had full faith they would have a normal, intimate marriage. He did get blasted for his deceit - likely needed too - to help open his eyes to his part in the play out of their marriage. Weighty indeed.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Template said:


> I am in a similar situation as you, Sue. In my early 60's and have to watch every calorie, I mean every calorie I eat. My H is very, very attached to his need for visual attractiveness. I recently reached my (his) goal weight (BMI of 20) and have a devil of a time maintaining. Note, that as you lose weight, your BMR gets lower, so you are allowed less calories just to maintain. I am hungry most of the time and am constantly having to tell myself no to anything other than broiled chicken and fish, steamed or roasted vegetables, yogurt, and egg whites. I no longer enjoy holidays or going out to eat because any deviation from my plan and I either pay by starving myself for a few days after or exercise excessively to be sure I do not gain an ounce. My H stuffs his face with snack foods, candy, and ice cream while I sit with yet another glass of ice water. He does not like chicken or fish, so I am stuck making separate (and delicious) dinners for him that include steak or pork chops, potatoes, rice......all things that I will never be able to eat ever again.
> I figured I would be able to enjoy my golden years. Relax and get a hobby I would enjoy. Instead, my hobby is keeping thin. I start every day weighing myself and depending on what the scale says, add extra exercise to my daily workout, cut calories, etc. and obsess about what the scale will say the next morning. Food, weight, exercise, and thinness are my obsession. There is never a moment I can let my guard down, never a time I can just enjoy a meal. *It is not a pleasant way to live, making thinness my ultimate priority because my husband will leave if I am not thin enough*.
> This kind of life breeds resentment and changes how I feel towards H and will shortly lead to separation and eventually, divorce.


Hi Template ~

This is not a very healthy attitude for a person to have, I think. If the only reason you do something is so that your spouse doesn't leave you, as you so succinctly pointed out, it will eventually kill a person's self-esteem and their marriage.

Why, since you seem to be this self-aware, do you want to continue down this path?

Be who YOU want to be ... your H can decide whether he likes that or not, but at least be someone that YOU like...for yourself.

Best wishes.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

If my husband loses his hair and goes bald, I'll let myself go and lose a few more pounds. 

Some people do have medical issues that stop them from exercising and keeping the weight off. I'm a prime example.

I broke my neck a few years ago. I ran 36 miles a week and was in the best shape ever. Now I can only ride my bike daily for a short amount of time. It's not even close to what I was doing before hand. I've put on a few pounds. I watch what I eat and my portions are small, but my metabolism is much slower since I no longer can run.

I thank the Lord my husband loves me the way I am, even with the changes the last 4 years. He still runs and participates in ironmans and numerous triathlons. I'm very jealous I'm unable to do the triathlons myself. Even with my un toned body, my husband is still in love with me. 

Age plays a huge part in your metabolism slowing down. I'm no longer 5'10" and 120 pounds when my husband married me 12 years ago. I'm actually 5'8", I lost 2 inches from breaking my neck and having several neck herniations. Yet, my husband stands by my side with full support. If he and the kids were not here by my side, I'd seriously think about taking my life due to the pain I live in everyday. Who wants to deal with the 24/7 constant severe pain? Life is not fair, but I must stay positive and make the best out of it.

I could not do this without my husband. I'm not overweight, but I'm not thin like I was 4 years ago. There's nothing I can do to change it either. I eat roughly 1000 or less calories a day. Food is not important to me. I eat to live, not live to eat.

I honestly think people focus too much on how a person looks on the outside. It's sad in my opinion.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

LadyFrogFlyAway said:


> Well, that's what I was wondering, E.~ yes, they were virgins but you can tell someone is overweight with their clothes on. :scratchhead: He was talking himself into believing her weight wasn't an issue for him when it obviously is.


Yes ... it was a tale of deception and denial on his part, which is why everyone was kinda rough with him, I think. He didn't really want to own up to how he felt or how he treated his wife (she had to plead for intimacy from him). He didn't really seem to see the person that he claimed to marry other than her weight (which she'd always struggled with) and his own desires. If the weight of your partner is important to you, at least own up to it. If you truly love your partner, then don't deny them and reduce them to a beggar.

Having reasonable expectations is also helpful. Marrying someone who is overweight and expecting them to look like a swimsuit model and then being disappointed when they don't, isn't realistic. 

I just came across another post in General, where a man was unhappy because his wife had been chubby, and she went on a mission and lost weight (5'4" and down to 111 lbs) and he was then unhappy she was thin. Hmm.... it doesn't seem that she was really the issue as much as he was.

Ai ai ai ... the oft unattainable standards of beauty and weight that are so often placed on women in our society. No wonder people eat sometimes as solace and 2/3 of Americans (both men and women) are overweight or obese.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Enchantment said:


> I just came across another post in General, where a man was unhappy because his wife had been chubby, and she went on a mission and lost weight (5'4" and down to 111 lbs) and he was then unhappy she was thin. Hmm.... it doesn't seem that she was really the issue as much as he was.


I have a friend who lost weight for her husband then he too complained she was too thin. Truthfully there was no pleasing that man. He was simply a flaw picker.

On TAM the spouses we most have sympathy for are the ones where the overweight spouse gained A LOT of weight after marriage. The post in question the guy knew how big his wife was but overlooked it thinking he could overcome it. That's on him not her.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

*Dean* said:


> They start to worry about their wife suddenly losing weight, dressing better, taking pride
> in how she looks. They get insecure rather than enjoying what they have.


Its unsettling whether you're secure or not because lets face it frequently it does mean something bad. LOL

I saw it in my husband when I decided to lose weight and he has no reason to feel insecure. I just make sure to reassure him with actions and words that it's ALL for him and then he's all better.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

suesmith said:


> The only way I can lose weight is to cut my eating to NO MORE then 1200 calories a day, every day. I can eat slightly more to maintain. (absolutely no more then 1500 a day, and I will slowly gain on that)
> 
> Now, my question for you is, are you willing to eat the same diet that your wife does to help support her weight loss/maintenance goals?


Well since I have been one of the more vocal, males on this thread regarding this topic, I will answer this.

First, you realize males tend to be bigger and require more calories than females. The average restaurant meal is too many calories for the average full size man. Women who eat those meals, well no wonder they struggle with their weight.

Having said that, a guy who wants his wife to maintain weight should be doing it himself.

Both need to figure out their daily metabolic rate and adjust their caloric intake accordingly.



suesmith said:


> Or, do you believe that your home should be still be stocked with all manner of goodies etc for you?
> 
> I really believe that many men have no idea how difficult is for women to lose, or even maintain weight. How willing would you be to give up your favorite foods for the rest of your life, no exceptions. No snacks, no sugar, limited carbs, very small portions of what you can eat. No alcohol at all. No exceptions. Would you be willing to do that forever to keep your partner happy with how you look?


That extreme all or nothing thinking is the problem.

A healthy diet high in fiber, rich in nutrients, low in sodium which will also be lower in calories is all you need. Which is mostly colorful fruits and veggies, good fats like olive oil and avocado, and lean proteins like turkey.

Coupled with plenty of water, you can't go wrong.

And stagger that out over 4 to 5 times a day to help boost metabolism. 

And after you start eating better, all that processed high sodium, high fat, high calorie food, actually starts to taste gross and doesn't sit well.

Get some regular exercise in there, it feels great.

Most people don't realize how dehydrated and poorly nourished they are until they make the change.

Trust me on that one. 



suesmith said:


> I cant begin to tell you how frustrating it is to be slowly losing, and then go out for a nice dinner, and the next morning the scale says you gained 3 lbs, or 5lbs. And it takes 2 weeks of starving yourself to lose it.


You should not starve yourself.

My weight will fluctuate 3 lbs every day. Most of that is just water fluctuation. Water is heavy. The recommended 64oz of water a day weighs 4 lbs. 

I'm 6'1 currently at 195. Now I looked good at 205, I looked respectable at 215 and I could pass for average American 30 something male at 225.

But when I was 225 a few years ago, I could honestly grab my belly and say, Damn, I am getting fat.

It didn't make me feel bad. It was like a challenge to me to lose it. So I did.

Negative emotions serve no purpose in managing weight. It's all science and should be approached as such. 




suesmith said:


> I'm just questioning the willingness for the men who feel the way they do in this thread, to do what they are asking their women to do. Do you ever bring home snacks, ice cream or chips? Do you even stop at DQ for an ice cream cone? Ever have a glass of wine or a beer with a nice dinner or your buddies? Do you ever eat fast food? Ever drink a milkshake? Those would all be off limits forever!
> 
> Can you, would you do it, if thats what it took?


I am sorry but Dairy Queen? That sounds revolting to me. All fast food does. I never eat that garbage. And that's what it is.

And potato Chips....what a high sodium, high fat, high calorie, no nutrient disgusting food that really is. 

You won't find any of that stuff in my house.



suesmith said:


> Can you, would you do it, if thats what it took?


Yes, I want to live like that. I want my wife to do it with me.

Why wouldn't I?


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