# Gut Check Time



## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Alright - the lines have been drawn. Need to review my arsenal & battle plan. Any and all help/comments welcome.

Our second kid is 5 mos. We haven't done the deed in over a year now. She's still playing the "post partum" thing, which I know is bs. This is confirmed by flirtatious messaging on the FB with some commie douche in the UK.

She thinks I saw the messages and has since deleted them. I have not confronted verbally, but my body language is evident.

I'm giving it until after the "holiday" tomorrow before I do any confrontation. I was planning on 1) confirming the state of our relationship, 2) proclaiming my dissatisfaction with the intimacy, respect and honor aspects and 3) drawing the line(s)

I'm still working on that last part. I'll post here w/ my conclusions. I guess I'd like a little advice on whether to address the messaging, which I have once in the past. I'm kinda thinking that's a moot point. On the other hand - it's part of the 'drawn lines', right?

Gonna play poker tonight, though. hehe.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

Dude... you better handle that biz, PRONTO!

No way, I'd be sitting around letting her draw conclusions. I'd lay it all out on the table- ASAP!


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

ShuttleDIK said:


> Alright - the lines have been drawn. Need to review my arsenal & battle plan. Any and all help/comments welcome.
> 
> Our second kid is 5 mos. We haven't done the deed in over a year now. She's still playing the "post partum" thing, which I know is bs. This is confirmed by flirtatious messaging on the FB with some commie douche in the UK.
> 
> ...


'battle plans'? 'arsenal'? 'the "post partum" thing, which I know is bs.? 'my body language is evident.'? "Gonna play poker tonight, though. hehe." 'commie douche'?

Really? If you want advice based on that brief encapsulation of your relationship, I will - but you may not like it. Your first thought - 'Confirming the state of your relationship' is a good place to start though. Pure speculation on my part says that will give you both plenty to talk about... and listen to.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

anotherguy said:


> 'battle plans'? 'arsenal'? 'the "post partum" thing, which I know is bs.? 'my body language is evident.'? "Gonna play poker tonight, though. hehe." 'commie douche'?
> 
> Really? If you want advice based on that brief encapsulation of your relationship, I will - but you may not like it. Your first thought - 'Confirming the state of your relationship' is a good place to start though. Pure speculation on my part says that will give you both plenty to talk about... and listen to.


Well, like I said - any and all advice welcome. Thought I was sticking to the Forum decorum. I could put it all in more flowery wording, if you prefer. But doesn't that defeat the point? 

-s'all good. I think I see where you're coming from. Thanks for chiming in.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Seriously.

If you look at this as "winning or losing", you both lose.

She's violated your personal boundaries.

It's highly likely you never laid them down for her.

When the one I love and I became an "official" couple, I figured we had it all and were on the same page. Why should I bring up subjects that make her tense or upset? She's going to love me like no tomorrow - right?

As I read your post, there are two key things I see.

1) You haven't separated boundary enforcement from anger. So, you have your "battle plan" and whatnot. I have news for you. Go into this guns blazing, and prepare for some serious buckshot up your ass.

Once you fall victim to your own anger, you are powerless.

This discussion needs to be controlled and direct - but in no way should it be hostile.

2) You aren't taking this seriously. And, if you don't take it seriously, there is no way in hell she will.

This is the most important thing in your life right now.

Poker can certainly wait.










ShuttleDIK said:


> Well, like I said - any and all advice welcome. Thought I was sticking to the Forum decorum. I could put it all in more flowery wording, if you prefer. But doesn't that defeat the point?
> 
> -s'all good. I think I see where you're coming from. Thanks for chiming in.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Seriously.
> 
> If you look at this as "winning or losing", you both lose.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree:

Friggin' spot on Conrad.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Poker can certainly wait.


Ok, I honestly cannot believe I'm in the right forum here. Have you people read the material?

To my understanding now is the time for strength, at least that's what I get from the posts here. The WORST thing for me to do is fem out & get all emotional. Being clingy would be disastrous as well; miring about. Poker was the answer to that. Put the kids to bed and GTFO.

And how is it not about winning & losing ?? Would "succeeding and failing" be better terminology? - that's just semantics.

The boundaries are clear. She actually created them - and is now skirting them.

I do fully agree that giving in to anger will undercut any work we attempt. And in this scenario, it's going to be difficult. The best way I know to do that is to be fully prepared. .... for the battle. To call it anything else is folly. Go check your Benetar.

I can surely see how my presentation could give the impression that I am not serious about this. But I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that just posting here would prove otherwise.

The most important thing in my life is my kids. If this relationship has to end for their benefit, so be it. 

Again, I sincerely appreciate all the feedback.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

I confronted my wife about the 300 dollar cell phone bill, asking who the number was she kept calling hundreds of times in a week.
She just lied about it.

He was just a friend who got in a fight with another one of their friends and she was lending support.
The obscenely common tripe heard all the time.

She later divided the cell phone bill into two. I had my own account and she had hers, password protected and locked away.

Sounds so "involved" in the marriage eh?

To be at this point now, divorced, five months later, seeing her live with her head in the lap of her new man, not even the dude she destroyed our marriage for,, just leaves me shaking my head.

I wouldnt expect a revelation from your discussion with her.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Shooboomafoo said:


> I wouldnt expect a revelation from your discussion with her.


That's horrible, man. My first marriage had a similar bent. I got through it good, though. But it took a long time, by some measures. I made a TON of mistakes along the way. Allow yourself room for those. How else do you grow?

I'm not expecting anything but obfuscation and denial. I'm not trying to get her to 'come clean' I don't think. My objective is to state my requirements, expectations and what steps I'm going to take.

I can't control her. If she wants something besides me then GTFO. And I WILL find out. 

We'll see how it goes tonight.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> I can't control her. If she wants something besides me then GTFO. And I WILL find out.


_Fer realz._


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Ok - here's the outline:

Tonight’s Plan


Announce that given lack of reply to my text message, I need to talk to her. I don’t want a discussion and after I’m done, I’m going to go exercise.
I know it’s been difficult for you to live with me. And here. And that has had a
direct and noticeable effect on our relationship. Before you knew you were pregnant, you were about to call it quits. Nothing has changed for you about that.
You’ve decided that an abstinent life is preferable to ending what we have
This is not ok with me. I will not accept this life. Say whatever you want, but primarily this is about my weight and lifestyle. Since you’re not able to get past this, then there are only two options. I change or we end.
You’ve already begun the process. Apparently It’s up to me to finish it. I will not be in a marriage where I’m not loved, desired and respected. 
It’s not ok to explore things outside this relationship. If you want something else, then go.
I don’t want a discussion, as there’s nothing to talk about. I’m going to exercise.

Any adjustments needed?
Tryin' to get psysced (they're saying that again now... lol).


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> You’ve already begun the process. Apparently *It’s up to me to finish it.* I will not be in a marriage where I’m not loved, desired and respected.


I like this.


Are you overweight,dude?


Let me ask you. How did you NOT suspect things were awry, when you hadn't had sex in over a year? Something was amiss right there, regardless of her condition after the baby. I would think if she wanted to resume intimacy, she would've gotten _some_ medical opinion in order to rectify the sitch... KWIM.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

JustaJerk said:


> Are you overweight,dude?
> 
> How did you NOT suspect things were awry?


Oh yeah - I look good. But I'm heavy. Need to loose about 40-50. Lost 20 before xmas, but gained most back. Hey, 2 kids, busy life & our diet - thems the breaks. When we started she insisted weight wasn't an issue. This proves not to be the case.

I never said I was surprised, did I? This has been brewing - and I was just trying to figure out how we were going to work on stuff. But then I saw the FB messaging. So I guess my procrastination now ends.

VD Day was nice if uneventful. She backhandedly apologized for not being more exciting. shrug. meh. My text reply was to say that's ok, that we'll be getting more exciting soon. no reply - heh.

Thanks for the support!! Not a lot of places I can turn these days.


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## JustaJerk (Dec 2, 2011)

> Lost 20 before xmas, but gained most back.


I feel ya. The holidays put a hurtin' to the mid section. I actually went on a liquid diet for a week to purge all of it. I'm somewhat of a big guy(6'0 225), but lost about 10lbs. of holiday foodstuff. Nice and trim again.

Well... tonight your gonna find out where the marriage stands. That's a big step in the right direction, regardless of the outcome. 

Good luck, my man.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

No one said get emotional.

But, if you want her to take this seriously, you have to lead.





ShuttleDIK said:


> Ok, I honestly cannot believe I'm in the right forum here. Have you people read the material?
> 
> To my understanding now is the time for strength, at least that's what I get from the posts here. The WORST thing for me to do is fem out & get all emotional. Being clingy would be disastrous as well; miring about. Poker was the answer to that. Put the kids to bed and GTFO.
> 
> ...


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Ok - I chose to delay it a day 'cause she was sick. And the 'nice guy' in me just couldn't do it then. Maybe the right choice, but for the wrong reasons, sure.

Needless to say, I was tense yestidday. But once I got home, there was a break in the baby rotation that left us alone together for a few minutes. So I proceeded to break it down.

I pretty much followed the script exactly. I was calm, firm and didn't devolve into any discussion, much less a fight. I started seated in the kitchen and we moved to the living room and ended her seated, me standing and emphasizing that looking for anything outside the relationship was not acceptable.

She did ask me what I meant by that, in an attempt to derail my message, I believe. But I stayed on point without allowing her to frame it in her terminology. I think that was important.

So after my half hour exercising in the rain I came back home. I truly expected to have to address some sort of conversation on this. But to my surprise she was respectful and amenable. She even snuggled up next to me on the couch after a while and confided that she's not going anywhere.

Now, usually I would take an opportunity to make a pass here, but given her malady and the immense amount of angry rejections I've gotten over the last year, I just enjoyed the moment.

I'm still wary, of course. But I definitely prefer how it went to how I was imagining it would go.

Thanks for your help, erryone - esp. JJ. NMMNG+!


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## Stir Crazy (Feb 10, 2012)

ShuttleDIK said:


> This is confirmed by flirtatious messaging on the FB with some commie douche in the UK.


How do you know he's "some commie douche", did he express his political affiliations to you?


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Stir Crazy said:


> How do you know he's "some commie douche", did he express his political affiliations to you?


He's got Guevarra iconography all over his page. That covers the commie part. He's flirting with my wife online, knows she's married. That covers douche.

Any questions?


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Ok - status update:

I've been going through the NMMNG material. Trying to find a group, too. But I've still been able to re-focus on being what is generally perceived as a 'better person' (more independent, less concerned with other folks opinions, etc...) by the book definitions.

Wife had definitely noticed the difference (losing 7 lbs excorcising didn't hurt). I've been receiving lots of affection from her since my confrontation. Though I do feel that she's still communicating with jackass(es) on FB, I can't corroborate right now. (She's been using the Android lately, no keylogger on that - unless anyone has any further info).

But as far as our relationship with each other, it's been 100% better. Again, I'm not oblivious here, but it's been good. This am we finally erhm - connected. Again, for the first time in over a year, I think that's a pretty big step.

Still lots of work to do, but I'm happy that there's progress.

Now, if she'd taken my call this morning, I'd probably feel less edgy. Baby steps, right?... lol.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Good work on taking those steps, Shuttle, to improve yourself. Sometimes that first step can be the hardest to take. 

There is a 'no more mr. nice guy' forum too you might want to check out, if you haven't already. Pretty much all of the men on it are recovering nice guys in various stages.

No More Mr. Nice Guy Online Support Group - Powered by vBulletin

Best wishes.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> Good work on taking those steps, Shuttle, to improve yourself. Sometimes that first step can be the hardest to take.
> 
> There is a 'no more mr. nice guy' forum too you might want to check out, if you haven't already. Pretty much all of the men on it are recovering nice guys in various stages.
> 
> ...


Thanks Enchantment! I appreciate the response and the resource.


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

Good stuff. Keep us posted bro.


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## ShuttleDIK (Oct 18, 2010)

Just a quick update.

Now, I haven't told my wife about the NMMNG program directly, yet. She's firmly against therapy & self-help of any kind, mainly due to childhood experiences in that it leads to divorce. (An odd association, I know, but it does make sense if you look at it purely linearly).

But I had this interraction with her this weekend and I was surprised how it deals directly with the stated pathology of a 'nice guy'. I told her about some household stuff I was planning on doing and she asked, very directly, "now are you doing that because you WANT something from me?!". Couldn't have put it more succintly, could she?

So I revealed about the plan I'm working on now (again, being careful not to call it therapy or anything of the sort - also non-confrontational, I know, but can you blame me at this point?). That I'm not supposed to being doing things based upon what I'll get from the situation, but just because I want them done! Same with pleasantries ... and complements for that matter.

Still seems ironic to me, that in order to get the appreciation you want .. you have to not try to get it. But that's life, eh? Some Zen in thar somewhar.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I think you would be best just doing it and many things with out her knowing why. do it for you. if she knows about it she most likly will circumvent it someway.


its your secret and it was working don't muck it up with blabbing about it.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Wait a minute....You think she may still be carrying on with the douche? What are you waiting for? She may be able to delete posts and messaging but can you see data usage on her phone bill?

I think you need to tell her that you think she is still doing this. If she denies, you tell her that if she isn't, would she be willing to take a polygraph to put your concerns to rest? If she agrees, schedule it! Don't take a yes answr as proof that she isn't doing it. If she says no, I think you have your answer.

While you think things are going better with your "new" approach, you suspect she's still having an EA.

Get off your hands and do something about it!


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

ShuttleDIK said:


> Just a quick update.
> 
> Now, I haven't told my wife about the NMMNG program directly, yet. She's firmly against therapy & self-help of any kind, mainly due to childhood experiences in that it leads to divorce. (An odd association, I know, but it does make sense if you look at it purely linearly).
> 
> ...


That seemed like a perfect opportunity for a reply like "if I want something from you, I'll ask".

Maybe not the best idea to let her know what you're doing. She might see it as trying to manipulate her.


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## mrmagoo (Feb 21, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Seriously.
> 
> Once you fall victim to your own anger, you are powerless.



Thats wisdom right there lads... great great stuff


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Shuttle,

Why are you "reporting" to her what you plan to do?

If it needs to be done and you wish to do it, JUST DO IT.

Don't ask for approval.


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## jelichmann (Apr 5, 2012)

Well, after reading the OP I was a little bit apprehensive, but I think you've actually handled the situation pretty well thus far. 

I've always been of the mind that leadership = the greatest thing a man can do in a marriage. I believe that being the visibly collected, firm, decisive and confidant man that your wife fell in love with is the solution here...And thus far you've done a great job. 

The turning point to me clearly seems it was the way you handled that confrontation with her - Direct and unwavering. Now you just need to maintain that attitude and apply it to the rest of your marriage. The only person you can control is yourself; keep working out, keep doing the things you want to (like the housework), and keep setting an example for your wife. Show her how you're going to act when you're living out your perfect marriage.

I would actually be against confronting her about the messaging. At this point it's just not going to do you any good. Things clearly haven't gotten any worse (you'd be able to tell I think), so just keep doing what you're doing.

Stay strong, stay focused on the end goal, and I think you'll get there with time. 

And above all - DO NOT pressure her on the intimacy issue. Trust me, I've been there, the fastest way to get back where you want to be on that front is to follow your own advice: Show her how LITTLE you expect it, and she'll naturally want to give it to you. It's weird, I know.


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## Jeff/BC (Apr 1, 2012)

ShuttleDIK said:


> Any adjustments needed?


Nope. If I was trying to get divorced that is EXACTLY how I'd handle it. Actually... no wait... If I was trying to get divorced I'd just go ahead and call attorney.

All that being said, it obviously worked out reasonably well for you and so YAY!!!

The comment I would have made is that it was a mistake to go into all the parts about your speculations about what's going on in her head. People generally resent that. She took it pretty well.. kudos to her. But that still leaves you not having asked the questions that you needed to ask here.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I just checked my gut. It's still lapping over my belt.


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## fearfulandhurt (Apr 7, 2012)

some one plz help me i have a big story and only married 8 months and its over...im devistated.


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