# Make a stand today!



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

Okay you bent over backwards to have a nice holiday yesterday, everyone had a great day, you came home and wanted to be with your SO and yet again, your needs were ignored.
Today you make a stand. Tell them sex is happening today, so wrap your LD head around it, read a sexy novel, watch a porn, go play with yourself until you are ready, eat green M&M's, what ever it takes, but make no mistake we are having sex today.
If they say no, then pack a bag and leave, tell them nothing as to where you are going, but do not come back until Saturday or Sunday. Or never.

LD is an excuse. It is laziness. Even though you are not all fired up for sex, it still feels great and it makes your SO feel loved and desired. Not having sex with you makes them a bad partner, a bad person, and LD is not a reason, it is an excuse for their selfishness and laziness. 
So do something about it.


----------



## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Okay you bent over backwards to have a nice holiday yesterday, everyone had a great day, you came home and wanted to be with your SO and yet again, your needs were ignored.
> Today you make a stand. Tell them sex is happening today, so wrap your LD head around it, read a sexy novel, watch a porn, go play with yourself until you are ready, eat green M&M's, what ever it takes, but make no mistake we are having sex today.
> If they say no, then pack a bag and leave, tell them nothing as to where you are going, but do not come back until Saturday or Sunday. Or never.
> 
> ...


I suggest you do some research into the causes of LD instead of just throwing out a one size fits all solution to the myriad of reasons for LD


----------



## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

No Guts . . . Well said.


----------



## soulseer (Jul 26, 2013)

No Guts I feel and understand your frustration.

I have been both HD and LD so have seen it from both sides.

It's not as simple as you suggest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Alot of what No Guts says is true...there can be reasons for LD, like alcoholism, drug abuse etc. However, everyone can make the effort.

A wife CAN make the effort to be more aware of her husbands needs and desires...just as he can make the effort to be more aware of her needs.

So yes, I think LD is often a question of laziness. 

A happy and healthy marriage needs to be worked on by BOTH parties.


----------



## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> LD is an excuse. It is laziness.


If your LD partner was once really into having sex with you and now they're not into it at all, then it's quite possible they're no longer attracted to you.

It's not something that can be forced.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I'm so sorry NoGuts, you must be feeling totally rejected.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's unknowingly or knowingly ignoring your partner's needs (good ole' stupid or evil)... In most cases the partner's idea on intimacy is set in stone and rather difficult to change, so making a stand is as futile as rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic unless you're willing and able to back up the stand with something of value or importance that would change your partner's mind. Even then if you achieve change, it may not be because of your powers of charm and persuasion but due to bringing out the heavy guns, ergo, disaster in the making.


----------



## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

the problem is by the time you get to the point where you have to say that. your not far from saying I'm done with that. and even if she comes around and tries there come a point where a day late and a dollar short pops into my mind.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Currently being there, doing that, in the process of getting the T-shirt.

I have to wonder, tho, about those in the sex-of-the-quarter plan, if you haven't done it for a couple months or so with your "partner", how do you play along when he/she has a Cialis moment? It's pointless. It's like -273 Kelvin or something, absolute minimum, and you're playing along? 

If you're not happy, vent it not just here or with your therapist but in front of your spouse, early and often. Marital bliss be darned, to be precise.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

john117 said:


> Currently being there, doing that, in the process of getting the T-shirt.
> 
> I have to wonder, tho, about those in the sex-of-the-quarter plan, if you haven't done it for a couple months or so with your "partner", how do you play along when he/she has a Cialis moment? It's pointless. It's like -273 Kelvin or something, absolute minimum, and you're playing along?
> 
> *If you're not happy, vent it not just here or with your therapist but in front of your spouse, early and often. Marital bliss be darned, to be precise.*


Absolutely. I made the mistake of not making CERTAIN she knew where I was coming from for too long. I don't pick fights with her about it (intentionally), but I don't sit quietly about it any longer. I also agree with 2ntnuf--you need to be able to tackle this together, with her as your partner, or it's never ever going to work.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If you could tackle the problem together with your partner, it wouldn't be a problem, would it? It usually becomes a problem exactly because one partner thinks there is no problem


----------



## PinkSalmon13 (Nov 7, 2013)

^^true dat. Over the past 3-4 years, I have used words like "nightmare", "so confused", "depression", "tragedy", "painful", "debilitating" in a very matter-of-fact way with my spouse who entered me for the No Sex Prize six years ago. They have had no impact. She is set in her beliefs and, it is now apparent, has some real issues regarding the true nature of intimacy and partnership between a man and a woman.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

If I could quote two US Presidents in a totally off the wall statement I would say that you're using Hope And Change when you should be using Shock And Awe. 

Hope and Change rarely works at the personal level (if you're hoping others will change that is) while Shock and Awe works pretty well at the same level... 

It may not get the desirable outcome immediately but by letting your "partner" know early and often and not playing games you make sure the partner is out of their comfort zone - a welcome jolt.


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

BradWesley said:


> I suggest you do some research into the causes of LD instead of just throwing out a one size fits all solution to the myriad of reasons for LD


if you are in the overwhelming minority that are medically excused from having sex, then I apologize. If you are not, then LD is a selfish excuse, from a selfish person.


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

soulseer said:


> No Guts I feel and understand your frustration.
> 
> I have been both HD and LD so have seen it from both sides.
> 
> ...


funny how people consider the destruction they cause others to be the "easier" choice


----------



## nogutsnoglory (Jan 17, 2013)

lenzi said:


> If your LD partner was once really into having sex with you and now they're not into it at all, then it's quite possible they're no longer attracted to you.
> 
> It's not something that can be forced.


never occurred to me:scratchhead:


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

It might be laziness and selfishness, but I also thing loss of sexual attraction is a culprit a lot of the time. Especially if the LD partner once was into sex, or is still into feeling sexual with masturbation, erotica, porn, etc. 

Sometimes people just lose their sex appeal. Sad, but true. All the indignation and righteousness in the world won't help. Two committed partners could work on it together. Otherwise you're just a one armed man in a rowboat. 

I understand that venting about it feels better than nothing sometimes, though.


----------



## techmom (Oct 22, 2012)

Take a stand!!!!

For what? Duty sex that is! Cause nothing turns a woman on than a man taking a stand for more sex...

(Translation: a man who demands sex will get the duty sex, guaranteed. This would not be an issue if she was still attracted to you or was HD like you)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Exactly. Why work so hard for crappy duty sex. LD's deserve to be dumped anyway so just dump her. Get it over with and move on.


----------



## BradWesley (May 24, 2013)

nogutsnoglory said:


> if you are in the overwhelming minority that are medically excused from having sex, then I apologize. If you are not, then LD is a selfish excuse, from a selfish person.


You are not going to change her. You are talking about throwing down a gauntlet, an ultimatum if you will. You have two choices: get divorced and move on with your life, or accept the lifestyle of a sexless or near sexless marriage.

Stop being a chronic complainer, that only makes you the human definition of insanity. 

Make a freakin' decision!


----------



## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

techmom said:


> Take a stand!!!!
> 
> For what? Duty sex that is! Cause nothing turns a woman on than a man taking a stand for more sex...
> 
> ...


So....if it's a relationship the LD spouse would know that their HD spouse is not happy and would....


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

techmom said:


> (Translation: a man who demands sex will get the duty sex, guaranteed. This would not be an issue if she was still attracted to you or was HD like you)


Duty sex has a purpose - it keeps sex on the table. Eventually if the noD partner protests, then the truth may come out. Not a bad approach if you ask me...


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

People don't deserve to be dumped because they are LD. There are plenty of marital problems that play out as low desire. If you want to dump a spouse and then claim it was because they were LD, then you are in denial about what the real problem is.


----------



## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> People don't deserve to be dumped because they are LD. There are plenty of marital problems that play out as low desire. If you want to dump a spouse and then claim it was because they were LD, then you are in denial about what the real problem is.


More times than not, the spouse getting dumped will find their sexuality real quick. Even you. I'll bet you could have had 10 years of better marriage.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> More times than not, the spouse getting dumped will find their sexuality real quick. Even you. I'll bet you could have had 10 years of better marriage.


Maybe. But I'm not sorry, and neither is my husband, to have finally found a way to break the cycle. Our marriage is stronger than ever for that trial. 

I'm not saying that leaving a sexless marriage is wrong. But be clear eyed about why its sexless. Blame is easy, and, in my opinion, is of little value in life. 

Sexual attraction between spouses is never guaranteed, but it is something that is hard to admit and accept. I would expect that most people could find someone else they are more attracted to if put back into the dating pool, older and wiser.


----------



## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

john117 said:


> It may not get the desirable outcome immediately but by letting your "partner" know early and often and not playing games you make sure the partner is out of their comfort zone - a welcome jolt.


My wife always gets really nice when I get really pissed off. She's been hearing more from me that 'this really isn't working for me' and 'just not sure how much more of this I can take.'


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Every time I read these type of posts, I wonder if the LD spouse is getting their needs met. I mean, truly getting their needs met. 

I get it, there are always those LD spouses that pulled a "bait and switch" but I don't think that's really that common. 

The times in my marriage when I didn't want to have sex with my husband it was an attraction issue or my needs were not being met.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Every time I read these type of posts, I wonder if the LD spouse is getting their needs met. I mean, truly getting their needs met.
> 
> I get it, there are always those LD spouses that pulled a "bait and switch" but I don't think that's really that common.
> 
> The times in my marriage when I didn't want to have sex with my husband it was an attraction issue or my needs were not being met.


Let me understand this.... Attraction is innate, it's not coming and going at will - on a short term at least. I mean, if hubby just came back from his drywall installer job I can understand, but exactly how does one fix attraction on the short term? Are we talking behavioral modification?

As far as needs go, that is legit assuming the needs are known and understood. There's a rather fine line between this and resentment...

In either case tho intimacy is used as a tool, not as a means of expressing one's satisfaction with the state of the relationship etc... I'm not very comfortable with using sex to achieve other goals.


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Get into her head 
Get into her heart 
Then get into her pants Dummy


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

john117 said:


> Let me understand this.... Attraction is innate, it's not coming and going at will - on a short term at least. I mean, if hubby just came back from his drywall installer job I can understand, but exactly how does one fix attraction on the short term? Are we talking behavioral modification?
> 
> As far as needs go, that is legit assuming the needs are known and understood. There's a rather fine line between this and resentment...
> 
> In either case tho intimacy is used as a tool, not as a means of expressing one's satisfaction with the state of the relationship etc... I'm not very comfortable with using sex to achieve other goals.


I don't know what to say. A husband that would rather spend 2-3 hours at the gym (every night) and then come home, take his dinner into his man cave and play computer games until 1am or 2am (every night). Then expect sex when HE decides to come to bed, making the wife feel like a body with hole. That's not very attractive to a woman is it? I can think of a few things he could do in this situation to up attraction almost immediately but he has to want to do it.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

No guts....I wish I had the strength to do what is necessary. I am Superman. And my 2 little girls are my kryptonite. I'm not going anywhere without my babies.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

soccermom2three said:


> I don't know what to say. A husband that would rather spend 2-3 hours at the gym (every night) and then come home, take his dinner into his man cave and play computer games until 1am or 2am (every night). Then expect sex when HE decides to come to bed, making the wife feel like a body with hole. That's not very attractive to a woman is it? I can think of a few things he could do in this situation to up attraction almost immediately but he has to want to do it.


I agree completely.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

These posts have identified many reasons sex might be dropped from the menu:

1) health issues, e.g., menopause;
2) psychological, e.g., unresolved trauma from abuse;
3) unresolved conflicts, e.g., anger over financial problems;
4) power games, e.g., unwilling partner gains enormous leverage via denial of sex. The value of anything in short supply goes up. Thus, the unwilling partner's engagement in sex becomes valuable as leverage;
5) Loss of physical attraction, e.g., spouse too fat;
6) Boredom, e.g., spouse lacks sex appeal;
7) The marriage is just a partnership to raise children;
8) Spouse is a poor lover;
9) Unwilling partner getting sexual needs met through masturbation/EA/PA;
10) Unwilling partner is closet homosexual;
11) Religious and/or value systems put sex in a negative light;
12) Unwilling spouse would prefer to end marriage but lacks honesty to say so; lack of sex is expression of discontent;
13) Marriage lacks romance/courtship;
14) One spouse wants children while the other does not;
15) Unsatisfied partner has offended unwilling partner with comments about body/appearance;
16) Some women sex as transactional, e.g., they sell sex to their husbands in exchange for gifts, dinner, jewelry;
17) Some women are shrews;
18) Some men are a holes.

There are probably more and various combinations of factors can be at work. The bottom line is that any couple that has children as a motivating factor to stay together ought be able to go to MC and discuss the issue so that they understand each others feelings.

What men cannot deal with is the idea that they work, make a living, don't cheat, co-parent, but have descended into the beta zone whose males are not appealing. 

A question for the women: how many of your husbands/partner/exSO spend/spent a considerable amount of time watching sports on TV. Do you find that your SO sports heros look like Greek gods? Isn't it inherently very beta behavior for men to admire this warrior class while accumlating fat cells from Bud Light? Wouldn't many unwilling women be very interested in sex with the star athletes who take up space in their husband's brains?


----------



## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Every time I read these type of posts, I wonder if the LD spouse is getting their needs met. I mean, truly getting their needs met.
> 
> I get it, there are always those LD spouses that pulled a "bait and switch" but I don't think that's really that common.
> 
> The times in my marriage when I didn't want to have sex with my husband it was an attraction issue or my needs were not being met.


BINGO

Simple as that in most cases

Absent the presence of some physiological biological or emotional / physiological anomaly...condition 

The LD /HD label is pure rubbish IMHO


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> These posts have identified many reasons sex might be dropped from the menu:
> 
> 1) health issues, e.g., menopause;
> 2) psychological, e.g., unresolved trauma from abuse;
> ...


Ouch. That hit home. Point taken.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Alas, the bozo above does deserve that, no question about it. Yet if the neglected spouse attempts to use sex as a behavior modification tool it will likely backfire. 

The first victim of this strategy will be communication. Once that is dead and buried things will snowball to an undesirable result. I'm not proposing room service in the man-cave wearing a Hooters attire. People don't change overnight. These behaviors are easy to spot and track. Once those behaviors raise a couple eyebrows the first thing to do is communicate. Chances are the guy is a bona fide bozo do a good talk is all it takes. If that does not work withholding sex won't work either because it takes off the table the only tool available - communication.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

John,

The ugly truth is most men have been relegated to beta status by the structure of society. Physicial conflict to establish sex rank pecking order is either limited or forbidden in adulthood. What professional and semi professional athletes do would be forbidden in civilian real life.

I just watched an ESPN replay of Michigan versus Ohio State. Three players were ejected for fighting. One star gave the finger to the fans as he walked out. He will surely have more trouble because of it. However, all the players who got in the fight will not have trouble getting laid or attracting women. Their teammates will not ostrasize them for fighting. Their alpha status will go up.

If the ordinary guy back home acted like this. He's soon be in prison.

We should be clear about what took place in human evolution. Azzhole alpha males who killed and intimidated other males had their pick of sex partners. They had multiple sex partners. That behavior is considered socially unacceptable, even criminal. However, there are equivalent behaviors that attract women. Wall Street criminals who ruthlessly game the system, cruelly crushing competitors and customers, are obviously high in sex ranking. 

Any feminist would say that Tiger Woods is a jerk and yet he got a new alpha female, Lindsey Vonn. If she had slept with as many men as Tiger had women, would she find a high status alpha male for a LTR?

Many infamous murderers who are sent to prison receive letters from women who have fallen in love with them based purely on what they have learned about them from the media.

Conversely, consider the common cuckold fantasies, wife sleeps with boss (his or hers), big black man, Venus in Furs, etc. all of these involve women becoming aroused by the submission of the beta mate.

In describing this, I am not putting some moral judgment of females sexuality. But is it simply irrational to consider sexual behavior rational from an ethical model. Ethical perfection is not the best aphrodisiac for either men or women.

By the way, there is a very interesting and poignant CWI thread. Betrayed and Blindsided is the poster (hope I got the name right). His wife cheated with a tennis pro. The tennis pro had alread stolen a wife from a finance industry rich guy. The first stolen wife talked about why she married the banker.

She liked hearing him shouting angrily on the telephone, closing deals.


----------



## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

My second wife was real LD. I wanted sex one night and she mumbled under breath, "OK let's get this over with" and I got really pissed and told her to sit on her tongue and get the hell away from me. 

Any time we had sex after that comment was just a joke as far as I was concerned. Duty sex is such a low blow to any man or woman. Nothing like feeling unwanted. Needless to say the marriage ended shortly after. Who the hell wants to be with someone who doesn't care.


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would not want any part of a woman who selected me solely because of my perceived alpha-ness. Besides, as I'm European born and raised, most of our alphas went to the crusades / new world / world wars / revolutions / et al leaving behind - you guessed it - us betas  so while them alphas were busy killing each other we likely were busy doing their ladies, chastity belts be darned.

Europeans supposedly have far less of the alpha trait stuff yet if you believe the numbers we're doing it far more than our super alpha buddies across the pond. 

Athletes are a different story. They're perceived as superhuman with lots more leeway... I don't think any of us would expect to get away with stuff pro athletes do...


----------



## aeasty (Jun 5, 2013)

just screams DUTY sex to me and once you get it you'll be repulsed by them if it is that bad then tell them don't pull out the or I'm leaving, it WONT WORK. You might get sex but you wont get that desired feeling that feeling of your partner wanting you and there will be no passion could almost place a bet on it being in a very plain boring position and she will wont you so go as quickly as possible and once you do want you off and out. Unless you just looking for a warm semi moist hole to put it in don't do it, she will hate you more for it and you will hate her for it and will only make things worse.

Let her know your unhappy with the sex life and you want the BOTH of you to talk about it and both try and improve on it, if she isn't willing to talk about it then leave don't need to say why just say your unhappy with how the relationship is.


----------



## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

nogutsnoglory said:


> Okay you bent over backwards to have a nice holiday yesterday, everyone had a great day, you came home and wanted to be with your SO and yet again, your needs were ignored.
> 
> Today you make a stand. Tell them sex is happening today, so wrap your LD head around it, read a sexy novel, watch a porn, go play with yourself until you are ready, eat green M&M's, what ever it takes, but make no mistake we are having sex today.
> 
> ...


As a normal to HD woman, I don't profess to understand LD people, but I somehow doubt that all LD people are simply lazy or selfish... I also doubt that even though frequent sex is going to make one's SO feel loved and desired it isn't going to feel good for them if the desire is simply not there. If anything, they're going to end up feeling just as resentful as their higher drive sex-starved partner...

Threatening to leave an LD spouse might temporarily induce them to go through the motions of having more frequent sex, but I don't believe it is a long term solution.

If an SO only becomes LD after marriage, I'd suggest MC or sex therapy. If this doesn't work, IMO, it's either a case of compromise or ending the relationship.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have to change chemistry and maybe the balance of power. Tricky. Don't be needy. Threatening divorce as ultimatum is also weak if it done aggressively.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


----------

