# Too close for comfort...



## just friends? (Feb 25, 2011)

I posted a thread in "considering divorce or separation" but thought this forum might make more sense (or as much sense anyways). My husband has a VERY close friend in another woman (married woman, mutual friend). We have been married for over twenty years. They have become closer and closer over the last two and our marriage has gone down, down, down. There have been several incidents that have occurred to give me some bad vibes about the two of them over the last couple years, starting with nearly a week's worth of phone calls that went unmentioned by both of them, lasting nearly an hour. He admits that he didn't tell me about them because he thought I'd be upset but that he wanted to talk to her and simply "likes talking to the woman. She's a great friend." They communicate via email EVERY single day, I would guess an average back and forth of at least ten times a day to as many as 156 emails in one day (when I was out of town one time). They talk about our kids, football, their plan for the day, whether they're having a beer or not, what medicine they took, jokes, music, whatever. He spends a lot of time at his computer and jumps as soon as it dings the email notification. Now, he emails whenever he has a minute at work too. He's even sent her emails when sitting down to dinner at a restaurant with me after I was gone five days. I am trying not to get long here.... bottom line is...our marriage has gone seriously downhill. He thinks it's my fault cause I've pushed him away by giving him crap out his friend and that I am just jealous and can't handle his friendship with another woman and that if she had a penis I'd have no issue. However, he also admits that he loves to talk to her, thinks she's a riot (and I'm a dud), loves to let his hair down on the weekends and have a beer with her (expects me to want to too) and thinks there's nothing wrong with that. What do you think? Could anyone else handle that?
Her husband is well-aware of their on-going email connection. There have been some tiffs over it between him and my husband but, apparently she gives him enough love that he doesn't feel as concerned as I do. I don't feel enough love. I feel like I'm just a convenience in this marriage, someone to talk to when she's busy, someone to give him a piece when he feels like coming to bed - which means she's busy and not up for chatting, someone to cook dinner, do laundry and take care of the kids, etc).
Any opinions, positive or negative?


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

I feel for you. Your husband is a piece of work. You have choices to make. Based on your post in both threads its easy to assume to a point of certainity that your husband is a bully as well as a cheater. 

_"This is the way it's going to be. I'm going to be friends with her whether you like it or not so if you can't handle it, do what you have to do" pretty much sums it all up. _

The only way to beat a bully is to stand up to them.....CALL HIS BLUFF, take the offense. 

Don't leave the house, ask him to find somewhere else to sleep if he won't you do. Take care of your and your children's needs, leave his laundry, pull back as much as you can while living in the same house.

Go see a lawyer, start having conversations with husband about negotiating a seperation agreement - see lawyer first, knowledge is power. (He should leave the house while maintaining $$ contribution). 

Document as much as you can from phone bill (# of texts, # of calls, duration of calls)

Contact OW, husband, let him know that you are starting seperation, put in his head that your husband may soon be free - might just fire him up. 

No backdown, don't let him bully you, you will only lose credablity and power.

All important, take care of yourself an your kids.


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

My opinion! No way! I would feel the same as you (except I might be throwing a tantrum by now). I believe this is what is called an emotional affair by what I've read on here. You are completely justified in your feelings. Have you spoken to HER about this? If she is truly a mutual friend, then she should back off if she knows it bothers you.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

This is an Emotional affair , before you confront him to tell him to stop obtain the details of the OW and as many of her friends and family you can . Keep copies of the mails particularly records of the large number of text or emails exchanged. Once done confront him tell him to cease with immediate effect, send a no contact letter a sample of which can be found on the affaircare.com website under articles. If he declines call the OW's husband , is she has non the send a mail/ letter to as many of her family and friends as you can. If you require words post and we shall provide a template. Call his parents and siblings , if they are rational caring people they will know his behaviour is inappropriate.

Have no doubt this is an EA and it will get worse if you do not stop it, you husband may get angry, your marriage can survive his anger it cannot survive an OW
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Why can't you be the woman she is?

I don't say that in a mean way, but he is obviously getting something from her that he is not getting from you.

And let's not get into who started it... he will point at you and you will point at him. 

What can you do going forward that will make him email you, talk to you, joke with you, have a beer with you...?

have you tried marriage counseling or individual counseling?


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## just friends? (Feb 25, 2011)

Thanks everyone!
I do know the OW. The four of us were tight for a while as couple friends. But she and my H began building a super-tight bond. There's been many a late-night chat, even a few late-night phone calls. I KNOW that he would not tolerate any of this if the shoe was on the other foot but I guess it's different for him, or so he thinks. I have talked to the other woman about me opinion about my husband's feelings for her but apparently that doesn't matter. So, I guess she was never a good friend of mine in the first place. I have disconnected from her. I have lost respect for her but, ultimately, hold my husband responsible for the way I feel since he is the only one that's committed to me and he's the one that KNOWS exactly how I feel about the two of them, yet chooses to ignore my feelings and has even stepped it up a few notches, I'd guess just to prove he does indeed have the penis in the family. Yeah, he's just a TAD bit of a chauvinist. Or, bully probably fits just fine too. But, I'm not a pushover, although it would appear as though I am since I'm still here and this has been going on for months now, actually over a year. I guess I've reached my limit on what I can tolerate.
Thanks again!


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## just friends? (Feb 25, 2011)

Actually, C.T.....I don't want to be the woman she is. I'm quite content with the woman I am. I do joke. I do like to have a beer and let my hair down every now and then. The problem I have is that he doesn't want to have a beer with ME unless we're with HER. He wants to spend every weekend with her and her husband. YES, EVERY weekend. He gets upset when they don't want to do something. He doesn't want to joke with me. PLUS, I have a job that I'm very busy at and don't have the time that she and him have to sit and chat and joke all day. Then, the rest of the time, I'm cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping and playing taxi mom. He doesn't have as much on his daily to-do list and she rarely ever leaves the house and works very little. He found me very satisfying all the way around until she and him became such close "friends". He has admitted to me that if I or her H weren't around, he could see the two of them being together. It's only since she's become a big part of his life that he found errors in me. I've always been the "conscience" of the couple, the more practical of the two of us. He's always been more the partier.
I see where you're coming from though...try to bring out more things in myself that he finds appealing in her. But, I really don't care to do that when I haven't changed all along. I'm not going to be a care-free, "just give me a beer and I'm good" person like she is. I come from an alcoholic family and my life has and never will revolve around a beer. BTW...did I mention he turned 40 last year? Hit him HARD. Ridiculously hard. Mid-life crisis has occurred to me too.


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## just friends? (Feb 25, 2011)

I left out in my last reply and feel like I need to reiterate...even when I'm home doing nothing, if she's available online, he'd rather spend his time with her than with me. Or, even if he's with me, he stays in touch with her. We've been in the bar, out of town, having a drink and he still emails her what we're up to, where we're at, when he's going to bed, etc. Most of the time, it's small talk. But why do they feel the need to have each other's attention steady? I know that answer. I guess I just wanted to hear if others agreed with me and the consensus so far, is that everyone does, at least those that have commented.


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## Workingitout (Sep 27, 2010)

Emotional affair! Remind him that he's married to you and not the other woman. He should be sharing his emotions with you, not the other woman! If he's not already banging her, he will be soon enough! It must change now!


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Welcome to the EA world. 

Find out what she gives him that you do not. Learn how he recieves love... my guess is words of affirmation. 

Make sure he doesnt withdraw from the relationship anymore, and make sure you think before you act. Often times, the best laid plans backfire.

Pick up a copy of the 5 love languages. Now.

Give him a reason to withdraw from her and gravitate to you. 

From a man's point of view, you have not lost him yet if it is only emotional... if it turns physical, you may be in trouble... 

We dont have to talk about divorce yet, or anything like that... first you have to see how commited he is. I might suggest a meeting between you and him, the other woman and her husband. the other husband is your best ally here. Get with him and discuss a peaceful intervention..

Lots of room to get back on track dear.. most of us have seen worse, even if this feels like a bomb to you... just ask if you have questions.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

First, I am very sorry you are going through this. It is an extremely difficult situation.

Yes, this is an emotional, if not physical, affair. I am going through the same thing. "We're just friends." "You're just jealous." "If it was a woman, you wouldn't have a problem." Many of the things your husband has told you, my wife told me. I now know I have had the wool pulled over my eyes and been manipulated. We have been married for 12 years. I witnessed a horrifying exchange between them this past weekend. 

You are in the right place. These guys have wisdom and guidance in this situation. I don't yet. I can only empathize with you. I will pray for you, though.


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## just friends? (Feb 25, 2011)

Thank you. I have actually read thru some of your posts and have felt that we are in about the same situation. In fact, there are amazing similarities in our stories. Like you, I don't have a lot of advice to offer anyone because my head is just spinning right now. But, I do so appreciate those who have provided some solid advice and their own take on the situation.
If you put the exchange you witnessed in your post, I missed it. Do you mind me asking what it was? Just wondering what's next for me....


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

I just read some of your other posts. Again, your husband and my wife are very similar. It sounds like he is as bad off as she is (maybe was?). It is an addiction. He is not thinking clearly. Someone sent me a list of the scientific reasons, but I don't remember all of them. An EA is like a heroin addict. They need that fix. Also, what you see is the tip of the iceberg. (After my wife refused a date with me this past weekend in preference of an online date with her boyfriend, I watched the exchange without them knowing. I discovered it was 1,000 times worse than I had thought. Apparently, that is the norm instead of the exception.) 

I am very new to this thing. I just found out a couple of weeks ago that it was definitely not "just friends." These are a few of the truths that I have gleaned so far from everyone on here. Eli-zor has apparently been through this as well. We would both do well to follow his advice.

Our situation sounds eerily similar. You can see the advice I've been given on the "dealing with an ongoing emotional affair" thread.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

I didn't put it all there. There were hours of chatting between them. A few things:

"If I didn't have so many responsiblilities here, I would already be there."

"I adore you" - This one especially hit home. She came up with the name of Adora for our second daughter. The meaning is "one who is adored." This word isn't very powerful for anyone else, but to me (and I would assume her) it is the most powerful word in the English language.

"I've been crazy about you from the beginning."

"I'm trying to get you to flirt with me, but you are not cooperating."

Many overt attempts on the part of my wife for graphic sexual talk. I don't know why the guy didn't bite. He kept changing the subject. I'm glad he did, because I was having a hard enough time with her attempts.

A discussion about buying a prepaid phone so she could call him without me knowing about it.

"I'm seriously putting my marriage at risk for you."

All this with "just a friend."


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

One more thing. Expect resentment after disclosure. I did that Sunday and she won't speak to me yet. Apparently, that is the common outcome. She supposedly ended it yesterday, but we'll see. I wish I could give you a better prognosis. Some of the other guys can tell you about the other side (later down the road and a re-built marriage).


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## just friends? (Feb 25, 2011)

I feel for your there. I haven't witnessed any of that sort of talk yet. He openly admits that he adores her, but in his mind, it's all just friendship. But, his constant actions and apparent desires suggest otherwise. I think if I had witnessed stuff like that, I would be out the door in a heartbeat, without looking back. But, it's all still the same, affection for another man or woman that's gone way too far.
Good luck to you! I hope it all works out the way it should. I keep telling myself that everything happens for a reason.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

A few mistakes I have made that you may want to watch out for. When I got home Saturday night, I jumped straight to "I want a divorce." I raised my voice, cussed a lot (I don't usually but I spent about 10 years in the Marine Corps. The "sailor talk" comes out when I'm angry. She doesn't like the cussing.), and said a few things that I shouldn't have said. If there is going to be a reconciliation, it would have been better if I had remained calm. 

There are steps to ending an affair. I believe affaircare.com has a list. That seems to be a good order, from what I have gathered. Another mistake I have made is showing my hand. I gave my wife too much information. Be patient. He apparently don't care about what you think or he would stop when you asked. My wife was the same way. Even telling her she was stabbing me in the heart every minute she spent with him, it continued to progress to Saturday night.

Try to stay calm, take a deep breath, and listen to the wisdom here, on marriagebuilders.com, and affaircare.com. I do believe you need to act, but try to do it in a calm fashion. I know, it's hard. I failed to do that.


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## land2634 (Jun 7, 2010)

If your husband's days and happiness need to revolve around this other woman, it is most definitely an emotional affair. I would almost argue that an emotional affair is just as painful, if not more in some cases, than a physical affair. The emotional part was enough to destroy my marriage, but that doesn't have to always be the case.

First, a few things you can expect to hear.

You'll be told that they're just friends. You've already heard this one.

You might be told nonsense like, "I could never be attracted to HER!"

"She has helped me through a lot of tough times."

Furthermore, many times, they will begin lying to get time with the other person. For my wife, this included saying she couldn't meet me for lunch because she had to help a friend with some wedding planning. If I checked the phone records, she'd be on the phone with him the entire time.

She began pretending to have insomnia so bad that she had to stay up and watch TV. This is when their online chats happened. Getting together at a work friend's apartment pool was a chance to get away from me and for them to feel like they were together.

I'm not saying any of these things are happening, but watch for signs.

I wasn't able to tell from your posts whether or not you have access to his e-mails, chat logs, text messages, etc. If so, those are the best places to start. Affaircare.com is a great place to follow the advice for ending an affair. The exact link is here.

You'll notice the first step is to gather evidence. Let's start there ok? I think the best course of action at this point is to see what forms of evidence you can gather. As I asked above, what do you have access to?

Let's start there and we'll see what kind of solutions we can come up with from there. How does that sound?


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Just had to comment quick and agree with everyone that is saying your husband is having an EA. His comment about "if she had a penis you wouldn't care" is a load of bull. I'd be concerned if he was giving this much attention to anyone, man or woman!

Anyway, wanted to lend support and wish you luck. My husband had an EA and it did end up being physical, even though he found me more attractive. The newness and excitement of someone different, especially if there is an emotional attachment, can lead to them at least trying the physical side too. It's what happened with my H. Thank goodness for small favors that he preferred me physically, kept the PA down to a minimum.


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## land2634 (Jun 7, 2010)

Yeah, I think RWB touches on a very valid point. Transparency is a big one. While him not letting you see messages doesn't guarantee something is going on, you already know they're emotionally vested in one another.

With that being said, if it's a matter of you just haven't looked into checking the messages yet, just prepare yourself. It could be exactly what you think it is, but it could also be much worse. I don't want to make you feel as if it's all doomed, because it isn't at all, but this is a very serious matter. I just want to try to give you a perspective on what to prepare yourself for. Something I've learned is that the more prepared we are to deal with something beforehand, the better we can handle the situation.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> You should not have to compete, that is a very unhealthy road to go down. IF he is ignoring you because of something, it is HIS responsibility to speak up, not to try to make you compete for him by giving this other woman more attention than you and using you as a fallback/doormat. He agreed to get his needs met within marriage, it is not just about sex and he needs to be reminded of that. It is time and devotion and an emotional relationship as well.


While affairs are the responsibility of the disloyal spouse, the conditions leading to the DS choosing an affair are the responsibility of both spouses together. Just arguing that the loyal spouse shouldn't have to change is foolish. Not changing, even if the DS would choose to end the affair, just leaves your marriage in the same precarious shape as before.

It would be nice if we lived in a perfect world where, when spouses pinky swear to be faithful, they always keep their word. But we don't. We live in a world where, if a spouse isn't getting his/her needs met in the marriage, he/she will go elsewhere.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

I agree that both spouses have a part leading up to the affair. However, just changing will not bring the marriage back together. If the WS is in an emotional affair, they have already left the marriage in their mind. No changes you can make will draw them back, while the Other man or woman is in the picture. Of course, that is just my opinion and I am very new to this. I speak of the changes that I have been trying to make for months. However, she continued to develop her relationship with him. The marriage can not withstand another person. The first step is to end the affair. The next steps involve changing what was bad in the marriage that led to the affair. Again, I am not an expert yet. I am right in the middle of the storm. These are just my observations from the folks that have been leading me in the right direction.


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

Chris Taylor said:


> Why can't you be the woman she is?
> 
> I don't say that in a mean way, but he is obviously getting something from her that he is not getting from you.
> 
> ...


Sorry, but this isn't the way to go about it. If he REALLY loves his wife, he should have sat down with her and talked about how he feels. This is an emotional affair, no doubt about it. And take it from somebody who knows. His wife may not be perfect, but she doesn't deserve this.


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

Saffron said:


> Just had to comment quick and agree with everyone that is saying your husband is having an EA. His comment about "if she had a penis you wouldn't care" is a load of bull. I'd be concerned if he was giving this much attention to anyone, man or woman!


:iagree:

Truthfully, Any man I have ever been with has never spent this much time on the phone with another man. I don't think he is just treating her as 'one of the guys.'


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