# Dealing with an ongoing emotional affair



## HurtinginTN

My wife has been having an emotional affair for months. She has been playing online spades with this guy for about 8 months (she said the time frame, I haven't been tracking it). She plays for hours nearly every night. The only time she doesn't play with him is when he is not there. He'll even go so far as to let her know if he isn't going to be playing. "I'll be gone until Sunday." I have been arguing that this relationship is wrong for months. However, she has continually insisted that it is just fun. 12 days ago, I came across (accidentally) some google searches. "Falling in love on the internet", "Getting over an emotional affair", and several searches for him. Supposedly, she only knows his first name and last initial and that he lives in Denver. I confronted her and she admitted that she had lied. She said she wouldn't play with him again. She has played every single night and has even called him. I don't believe they have ever met. She says she needs time to end it in her own way. She can't feel forced to end her relationship with him. How do I give her space to do that while she tears my heart out every night?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

I'm sorry your here. 



HurtinginTN said:


> She says she needs time to end it in her own way.


TRANSLATION: She wants to see how this plays out (with him). She wants to cheat on her terms, and end it by her choice (if thats her choice). If she has any indication that he feels the same way about her, the "game" is on. Look forward to chasing shadows, and the worst mental anguish of your life. 



HurtinginTN said:


> She can't feel forced to end her relationship with him.


That is a veiled threat/intimidation statement, she is insinuating that if you "force her" to give him up there will be consequences(common WS "fog" (addict) tactic)



HurtinginTN said:


> How do I give her space to do that while she tears my heart out every night?


You don't.


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## alphaomega

No! You don't give her space. Stand up for yourself! Why would you let her continue doing this after you told her it's ripping your heart out! People who really love you dont continue to make you feel that way after they know what their actions are doing to you. Tell her to end it, or get out. It's that simple.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Smackdown

I had the same problem w/ Farm ville-divorce the B. she has problems beyond just an emotional affair, her problem is also the game,it's an addiction and almost impossible for them to see, it's NOT just "FUN" or just a game, this is real life and what is she doing?? Playing a game?? For real? Get a life, get a job, clean the house-join the real world or hit the bricks!!
Mouse


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## HurtinginTN

Well, we have 3 kids, ages 7, 8, and 10. If there were no kids, I would most likely leave. However, I believe strongly that it would be best for all of us to save our marriage. She says she is torn and it's eating her up inside. She is a good mother. She home-schools the kids all day. When I get home, she takes a break. For the past 8 months, that break has been with him. That is my main problem. The kids are going to spend a couple of nights with their aunt and uncle. Tonight and tomorrow night, we will be in the house alone. My hope is that she will give him up for at least these two nights and spend time with me. If not, it appears that our marriage is finished. I just want to do all that I can to save it.


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## Rob774

To the OP, dude, you gotta stop doing this to yourself and letting her make you a doormat. Once you found out about her EA, it should of ended that same night. She doesn't get to "tip-toe" her way out of it, or around it. You shoulda told her this ends now, or we end now. She's torn... over an EA??? You aren't being firm enough on this one, she cuts it off immediately and that's that or else its over!!!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> My hope is that she will give him up for at least these two nights and spend time with me. If not, it appears that our marriage is finished. I just want to do all that I can to save it.


I understand the childrens thing all to well, if thats your reason for trying to save your marriage... its the best one there is. But don't halfway... dont use the kids as a reason to enable her actions. Martyrdom will not save your marriage. Putting up with her affair in the "name of the children" will NOT SAVE your marriage. 

Read what you wrote... "You hope she gives him up for a least two nights to spend time with you".

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but... That's pathetic. 

You want your marriage? Take action. 

and...

Let me stop you right now with "if not it appears my marriage is over"...

Your marriage is not over. If you continue down the path of enabling her to continue this it will be. But, it won't be quick and it will be ruthlessly painful and damaging to you, your children and everyone in your lives. Infidelity is not a gunshot, it's a nuclear bomb. 

If your mentally throwing in the towel "if" she doesn't choose to spend time with her husband rather than her cyber lover... That's just you giving yourself permission not to fight and do the right thing, the tough thing in order to save your marriage. "oh it's over anyway" is an rationalization for not fighting. Maybe for fear of losing? maybe you hate confrontation? fear? I don't know. But, I do know your marriage is not over unless you quit your marriage. This fight is fresh, first shots fired.... No time to start waving a white flag yet... your kids need you. Your wife needs you. 

Buck up brother, you got work to do.


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## HurtinginTN

You're right, it does sound pathetic. I have told her that I feel like a doormat. She sends quite conflicting messages. She'll snuggle up with me at night, which is a change for her. It's been years since we have cuddled. She says that is a good sign. Today, I had the horrifying thought that I may be him in her mind at night. She plays for hours with him, then snuggles up with me. I have taken it that she is becoming closer to me because I am being patient with her about this thing, at least trying to. However, now I wonder which it is. My world has been turned upside down and I don't know which way is up. You're right, I've got work to do.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> She sends quite conflicting messages. She'll snuggle up with me at night, which is a change for her. It's been years since we have cuddled. She says that is a good sign.


I'm sorry, your being managed. 



HurtinginTN said:


> I have taken it that she is becoming closer to me because I am being patient with her about this thing, at least trying to.


Two scenario's 

her attentive behavior is _reactive..._

Generally before the affair is out in the open, or in some cases after it is this type of behavior is called "guilt driven attentiveness". The cheater is often times so wracked with guilt that they overcompensate and smother their mate with newfound affection... 

Or (my bet) her behavior is _proactive..._ 

It could be interpreted as subtle conditioning.... bribing, bread crumbs, Little treats for "thanks for letting me keep doing what I'm doing, here are some bread crumbs"... "roll over, sit up, good boy! Here's a treat." (sorry if that sounds harsh or dramatic, I just want you to paint a picture in your head and get the idea) 

*Clear message: *You be good and you get awards... 

which would fit and be the other side of this coin she showed you...



HurtinginTN said:


> She can't feel forced to end her relationship with him.


*Clear message: *if you "force her" to give him up there will be consequences.

Either way she is managing you to keep her addiction fix going...

IMO.


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## HurtinginTN

Blocking the website would be a way to "force" her to stop her actions. She would take that as being controlling. She would automatically know that I did it, so it wouldn't be a sneaky way to block her. I suppose I am being managed. Perhaps she is trying to figure out "How much can I get away with?" Good dog, roll over. That is harsh, but very true. Reality is harsh, especially my reality right now. I also agree about the "fix". It is very similar to a drug addiction. My counsellor even said that it's like a heroin addict. They know the shot is not healthy, but they neglect their health for that quick high. She knows this is not healthy for our marriage, but she needs something this affair is giving her. 

Please don't worry about being harsh in your advice to me. I appreciate all of the feedback. I am extremely weak right now. She lied to me for all this time and made me feel like it was all in my mind. "It's just a game." "I work hard all day and I need a break. It's just innocent fun." I feel very defeated and broken. Your responses are helping me to see what I really need to see. It is taking away the doubt in my mind over whether I am overreacting. She has maintained that I am making a mountain out of a molehill, even after I saw her google searches.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, last week I asked her for a date on Saturday night. That was last Thursday. She said, "Let's see how the next couple of days go." I took it as "I don't want to give up my time with him to spend time with you." Apparently, we (me and the other guy) have the same work schedule. He is available almost the exact times I am. As soon as I get home from work, he is there to play until time for bed (or later). That simmered in me all day, so that night I worked late. I was there on Spadester when he showed up. I watched him sit there at a table alone from 6:15 pm until she showed up about 6:45. She showed up and sat down. They immediately started chatting. "I got booted last night." "Me, too." The site crashes fairly often and many of thier nights end when they can't get back online. I sat down and typed "Me, too." "Stay away from my wife" "It's time for this little affair to end." Then, I left to go home. We had a very bad fight on the way home. She said "Don't come home." I said, "Your the cheater. You leave. I'm not leaving." About halfway home, I felt that I had messed up. I started crying and called her to tell her I'm sorry. She said it was over. That night, she went for a walk and took my cell phone. Later, I noticed a call for 42 minutes to Denver, where he lives. She said she had only gotten his number that night and called him because she was so embarrassed. Saturday night rolled around and she played with him. That strengthened my view that he was the reason for the delay in committing to a date.

In other words, I tried to have a date with her and she rejected me for him. Tonight and tomorrow night, the kids will be away. If she cares at all about the marriage, we can have some time alone. I expect her to play with him. I am still debating on how to handle that.


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## oldbill43

HurtinginTN said:


> You're right, it does sound pathetic. I have told her that I feel like a doormat. She sends quite conflicting messages. She'll snuggle up with me at night, which is a change for her. It's been years since we have cuddled. She says that is a good sign. Today, I had the horrifying thought that I may be him in her mind at night. She plays for hours with him, then snuggles up with me. I have taken it that she is becoming closer to me because I am being patient with her about this thing, at least trying to. However, now I wonder which it is. My world has been turned upside down and I don't know which way is up. You're right, I've got work to do.



She is cuddling up to you more than likely because she is still on a "High" from this Emotional affair! Its not real, tell her you wont have it. 
But.... usually EA happen because there are other problems happening.. it she really bored during the day? She needs excitement!! But not the EA sort.... Look hard at your marriage, as a wife can be very neglected without anyone even knowing..


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## sinnister

I'm sorry you're going through this. Deep down you know what you have to do. She rejected a date with her HUSBAND for an online date with another man.

Game over.


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## Oft

I honestly think you are going to have to take some drastic steps here. Show her that you mean business. In my opinion from reading your OP, it's the only way you can make it work. I'm sorry that you are going through this. Right now you are showing her that she can still string you along.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, my question is answered. She has been having trouble with panic attacks the past month or so. My theory is that this affair has brought them on. She has been on a new medication for a couple of weeks that has prevented them. She called me and was having one. She's nervous because the kids are leaving for a few days. That means we will be alone in the house. As I was thinking that would be a good time for us to work on our marriage, she is thinking that I will be "pressuring" her. I'm pressuring her to go on a date or spend time with me. She doesn't like to feel "pressured". Also, she won't get her quiet time with her cyber lover if I'm not downstairs taking care of the kids. Therefore, her stress level has risen to the point of giving her a panic attack. She doesn't see that the affair is the problem. My getting upset over the affair is the problem. I said I would give her space, but my attitude sucks. So I am being controlling. I don't like her spending time with him, but I try to leave her alone when the kids are there. Since she will be alone with me, she is getting stressed out. I guess that shows my place. I don't want to go home either. A man shouldn't dread going to his own home. It should be a place of refuge, not a place of torture. I'm going crazy.


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## Oft

If I were you, I would remove the internet from my home. By continuing to pay for it, you are enabling her. Stand your ground. Tell her you won't in anyway support her actions regarding the affair. You can't make your wife respect you, but you can respect yourself. You are letting her treat you like a doormat. Stand up for yourself, your marriage, and your home.

And I know how you feel about not wanting to go home. I have been there quite alot within the past year. It's not a good feeling.


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## the guy

I agree, show her some tough love.


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## Rob774

HuntinginTN, you have made the waters rough enough yet, why would she stop what she is doing. First of all you shouldn't of said sorry for telling him to leave your wife alone. You had every right to do what you did. 

Like others have said, she needs to be shooken up, seriously. Now that the kids are away, i would in the middle of the day quietly pack my things in front of her and say, "End this NOW or else i'm walking out the door and never returning." and proceed to head towards the door. If this doesn't shake her to her core... nothing will. Screw her panick attacks, they are self-inflicted over the guilt of what she's doing. She has to realize that in a marraige, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. She wants him, she can go to him, but it won't be with me in the picture and she can explain to the kids eventually why i am not home when they call.


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## Oft

Rob774 said:


> HuntinginTN, you have made the waters rough enough yet, why would she stop what she is doing. First of all you shouldn't of said sorry for telling him to leave your wife alone. You had every right to do what you did.
> 
> Like others have said, she needs to be shooken up, seriously. Now that the kids are away, i would in the middle of the day quietly pack my things in front of her and say, "End this NOW or else i'm walking out the door and never returning." and proceed to head towards the door. If this doesn't shake her to her core... nothing will. Screw her panick attacks, they are self-inflicted over the guilt of what she's doing. She has to realize that in a marraige, you don't get to have your cake and eat it too. She wants him, she can go to him, but it won't be with me in the picture and she can explain to the kids eventually why i am not home when they call.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


Be firm in what YOU want.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, we went for a walk last night. We didn't talk much. When we got back, she went straight to the computer and looked at me like, "Well, go out. You said you would give me my space, but you're not doing it." I told her that this affair is a cancer in our marriage. If not cut out, it will kill the marriage. She said that it is not my decision, it is hers to make. She said that I can't control her actions, but I should do whatever I have to do. I told her, "You know what I want. I want to make this marriage work. It can't work with 3 people. The best thing for our children is to make this marriage work. Not only for now, but for their future marriages. Our example will be the most prominent example in thier lives of how a marriage should be. If we work together and build a great marriage, the chances of our children having great marriages will be greatly increased." I took off my wedding ring and told her, "When you gave me this ring, you wanted a husband. Now, you are telling me to leave you alone so you can continue this affair with a man you know nothing about. He has 2 kids that he only sees once or twice a year. Obviously, he has already wrecked his marriage. Now he is working hard to wreck ours. By continuing this affair, you are saying that me, our marriage, and our children are like a piece of trash to be wadded up and thrown in the garbage." I took a napkin laying on the desk, wadded it up, and threw it in the garbage. "When you decide you want a husband, I will be very happy to put this ring back on. You know how I feel, the ball is in your court." Then I went out and slept on the couch. The kids will also be gone tonight. I may or may not go home tonight. I don't want to move out because of the kids. However, I will not be catering to her while she is in this affair. Today is day 14 from the time I found the google searches. I'll give her 2 weeks of leaving her completely alone. Then, I will re-evaluate our situation.


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## MrK

You don't need 2 weeks. 2 days is enough. There is no way you should need to go 2 weeks of quietly watchiing her little affair transpire under your own roof. Common decency states that you don't flaunt you're little lover boy under your husbands nose 4 hours a day.


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## MrK

Better idea. Tell her that you can't handle this little affair so you sought help on a self-help forum. Kind of a 12 step program to deal with affairs. The idea is to meet up with someone to vent while your spouse is screwing around. You are meeting your partner during naked Spades, or whatever it is they do. You're meeting HER in an hour. Tell her to text you when her little love session is over so you can come home.

I don't care what you do for 4 hours (you probably should use this time to go out and meet women, but I digress), just let her know you're not waiting for her. See if she can take 2 weeks of that.


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## Eli-Zor

Never leave the house, if anyone has to go it is her. Your wife is having an affair because you are allowing it. Get onto her facebook connect to the OM's page and record all his contacts onto a word document that you secure. Once done post I have words for a facebook exposure, the intent is to tell everyone that he cares for about the affair and that he is preying on your wife. At the same time as this exposure you will let her parents , siblings , your children and a few of her close friends know of the affair. The affair has to stop and the only way is for you to do this is to make it unpleasant for them.

The process I am giving you is one followed by marriage builders. Go to the affaircare.com site and read the articles.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

This is my opinion for what it's worth.... 

Cancel internet immediately. 

Your wife is an addict, this is the greatest crisis of your life and perhaps the lives of your children. 

This is not the time to sit back and see if your great speech has some impact... It wont. 

Please don't kid yourself. Nothing good comes from your plan to give her 2 weeks... Nothing. 

What are the 2 realistic scenario's that play out here???

(my bet) 1. She chooses him. (NEWSFLASH: she already has). It destroys you, impacts your children for the rest of their lives. Perhaps in ways you can't see right now, the learned behaviors the are being subjected to and will continue to be subjected to will determine your childrens character and directly impact their decision making. One bad decision they make in a future crisis can turn into a snowball that can not be stopped. These are some of the life coping skills they are going to take away from this. I dont want to be too dramatic here, but in the case of your repsonsibilities as a parent I don't think you have the luxury burying your head in the sand here... IMO... It's your responsibilty to examine "doomsday scenario's" when we are talking about protecting your children.

So, lets say scenario 1 plays out... In the short term a nuclear bomb is dropped on your childrens development as human beings, you endure unimaginable pain and anguish... but you all make it through... at least for now. Really who knows what long term impact will be, but those "bonus" symptoms get stored away for later... Call it a disfunction annuity. 

So anyway, now W & OM openly get to try to live in the fantasy reality they have developed... LOL. This may give you some satification knowing this but... IT WILL BE A TRAINWRECK. I'm not going to spew stats and start another 5 paragraphs on this... but there is a unbeliveably high (I'd press 100% based on what youve said) chances this realtionship is DOOOOOMED... More emotional shrapnel for the babies who get to be exposed to mr. wonderful... and your kids get season passes to ride every ride at disfuctionland... This doesnt say anything about what the W you love is personally going to go through in this process... MMMmmmmmm fun.

2: Reality sets in (probably on OM's side) relationship with Dreamy McSpade fizzles and dies... This is the fun part... DS repaints how and why the affair tanked... In her head, it's your fault. But she is going to have to regroup (female tarzan relationship thoery) can't let go of this vine because she doesn't have ahold of another vine anymore... So, she decideds to play the "I choose my marriage/family" card... and you are none the wiser. Actually I would bet you would welcome a chance to believe that story (All LS's who want to save the marriage PRAY for this card to be played)... So, there we are... You have sent a clear message thats it's ok to cheat. She can do it and the consequences are... ??? Minimal or None. Your self respect is blasted, not only in her eyes, but in your own. What do you think the chances are that she is "open" to another affair? perhaps even seeks it? WHy not? It's exciting and fun, Husband will be a good dog if I keep giving him treats and make sure he knows who the boss is... and damn it, it's his fault I lost a chance to be with my "soulmate" Dreamy McSpade... So... on the cycle goes... Wash-Rinse-Repeat-Wash-Rinse-Repeat

You wanted straight forward... That's the reality your most likely looking at by letting her do this on her terms and giving her space to do it. 

IMO: This can't end well. 

Please consider this: You have nothing to lose. You have already lost your marriage, and your wife. At least the marriage and wife you knew. They are gone. Don't lose yourself, it's all you have left.

(and BTW; you would be wise to also listen to anything ELi-Zor shares with you.)


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## bluesky

I would not cancel the internet for ONE reason only.
I don't like where this is going.
She is disrespecting you, and continuing her affair AFTER discovery.

Print out everything and keep records.
Install a keylogger and get more info and exchanges.
Keep records of her medication and panic attacks.

This will be VERY useful when you go for sole custody.


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## bluesky

In the meantime, 180 her ass.


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## HurtinginTN

180? I'm not sure what you mean. I gave her the ring back last night. She called me a few minutes ago to tell me we are out of cat food and dog food. lol I give her the ring back and she calls about a honey-do list. 

Me: "I feel quite naked."

Her: "That was your choice. I didn't ask for it back."

Me: "Well, you don't want a husband. I'll gladly put it back on and work on our marriage when you decide that is what you want. You don't give a s___ about me or our marriage."

Her: "That's not true. We can't get through this lying. You don't have to be mean."

Me: "We are in a ship during a storm. The ship is sinking. I am bailing it out, but you keep striking it with an axe."

Her: "I know all the things you know. That's why I'm so torn up."

Me:  "You're torn up because you want him. You know that working out our marriage is the best thing. For the kids and us. But you don't give a s___ about me or our marriage."

Her: "That's not true. I care deeply about you and our marriage. When are you going to stop preaching to me?"

Me: "When are you going to stop striking the boat with an axe?"

That's where we left it. I am controlling and pushy. I am not keeping my word because I had said I would give her space. My "preaching" is only driving her further away. Yes, the reality is that she has already chosen him. She feels "torn" because she knows the right thing to do. Thus the analogy between breast cancer. She knows she needs to have a mastectomy to save herself, but she doesn't want to let go of the breast. Either option will bring pain. Giving him up will hurt her. Hurting me hurts her (or so she says. Personally, I don't think she gives a flip about my feelings or she wouldn't continue the affair.) 

I agree that I should probably cut off the internet, block the website, tell her family, or all of the above. However, with her rebellious personality and the fact that our marriage is holding on with a very tiny thread, that would indeed be a nuclear bomb to our marriage. She is scheduled to see a counsellor next Tuesday. She set that up when the panic attacks were so horrible starting about a month ago. I took off several days of work to take care of her during her ordeal. Now, I see that this affair is the main, if not only, cause of her severe depression and anxiety. I admit fault in not meeting her emotional needs for all these years. I left her vulnerable to the affair. I have told her that. I have also taken steps to improve myself. I told her that I am going to become a damn good husband. It would be a shame for her to let some other woman reap the benefits of that. 

Since she is going to see a counsellor, I will let it ride for 2 weeks. Hopefully, the counsellor with be worth a grain of salt and advise her that she needs to immediately end this affair. Maybe coming from a professional, she will listen. That is my only hope.


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## HurtinginTN

Does her upcoming appointment with a counsellor make a difference? Should I ride it out until then? She is going for the panic attacks, but surely this affair will be mentioned as the main cause of her anxiety. Will it make a difference coming from a professional or will my wife just twist things? I'm thinking she will minimize her time and attention on OM and make it out that I am too controlling. Therefore, the counsellor may just see her side of the story and tell her I am indeed the problem. Or should the counsellor be able to read between the lines and figure out what is truly going on?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

depends on the counsellor.

yes, she will gaslight the counsellor. 

yes, I suspect the counsellor will _(could) _eventually get to the root of the problem and likely give solid advice. _If the counsellor gets an ear_. 

Question becomes.... how long will that take? will your W have cemented her decision and be unreceptive to the suggestions by then? will she discontinue the sessions? Does she think there's a real problem? (no.) Does she want help with her affair/marriage? (no.) Will your _rebelious_ W listen to an authority figure telling her what she should do? Will the counsellor be focused on bonding (i.e. not alienating) your W.. in order to "break through" (eventually?) and do you think they value the billable hours that this process will generate? 

Lots of variables there.

Just saying.

Up to you if u wanna pin the future of your family and your marriage soley on those unanswered questions.

(but, I will say its good shes going. hopefully its not another "management/stall" technique to placate you and buy more time to hit her crack pipe...)

OR...

You could act ?

*edit* either way... what Bluesky said deserves immediate action... regardless of which way you go or what you do... Do not ignore this if you choose to give her space (permission to keep being unfaithful) and keep giving her access to her boyfriend (internet access)...



bluesky said:


> I would not cancel the internet for ONE reason only.
> I don't like where this is going.
> She is disrespecting you, and continuing her affair AFTER discovery.
> 
> *Print out everything and keep records.
> Install a keylogger and get more info and exchanges.
> Keep records of her medication and panic attacks.*This will be VERY useful when you go for sole custody.


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## HurtinginTN

Act. My possibilities.

1. Cut off the internet or block Spadester. This seems to be the overwhelming majority of the advice. 

Pro: It cuts off thier hours of playing spades and chatting with each other. 

Con: She will be extremely angry. I am being controlling. "Peter Peter Pumpkin Eater, Had a wife but couldn't keep her. He put her in a pumpkin shell. There he kept her very well." I only see it as building her resentment and bitterness toward me, not a good thing for building a marriage. Also, she has his phone number. It very well could push her to phone conversations instead of playing games and chatting. Also, the kids enjoy playing games online.

2. Move out temporarily. Go live with my brother for a while.

Pro: It may cause a reality check and cause her to think more deeply about her fictional relationship.

Con: That would bring the whole thing out into the open. The kids, her family, my family, everyone would know about it. That again would build her resentment toward me. I don't think that would be healthy at this point.

3. Continue to hound her and "preach" to her constantly.

Pro: I don't think there is a pro to this one.

Con: I am just making her angry by my current actions. It is not bringing her closer to me, but driving her away. 

4. Back off for 2 weeks (an arbitrary amount of time. I don't think I can handle longer, but it would give her some breathing room). I wouldn't give her a 2 week ultimatum, just know in my mind that it is just for 2 weeks. At boot camp at Parris Island, knowing it was just for a certain amount of time helped to deal with punches in the gut from drill instructors. Perhaps that would help me to leave her alone for 2 weeks.

Pro: It would show her that I am a willing to give her time to work this out on her own and that I am not controlling.

Con: It more likely would support her knowledge that I am a doormat. I have said that and she vehemently denies it. However, backing off and not complaining about this goes against every nerve in my body. 

5. Tell her family. This is pretty much the same as #2 with the same effects.

6. Go to a trusted friend of the family, perhaps the pastor that married us. Her family still goes to church there. That is the next step on the one of the websites I looked at, I believe.

Pro: He may be able to call her and talk to her. I believe he would remain confidential. Perhaps a trusted third party telling her to give him up would be helpful.

Con: She would probably be very angry that I "dragged her through the mud" with him. 

None of the options are pleasing. There is certainly no easy way out of this thing. I know everyone tells me that #4 will not work. However, if it has gone on this long, can another couple of weeks hurt our marriage that bad? It has been 2 weeks since I found out. I am leaning heavily toward #4. I will quit "preaching" and leave her alone. It looks to me the same as #2, but I still get to spend time with the kids in the evenings. 

Well, wish me luck in this endeavor. I did tell my boss today. I don't want him thinking I don't want my job. I told him I'm sorry my head hasn't been too clear lately. He was very supportive and I have full confidence that he will keep it confidential.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Be clear on this, you are p*ssy footing for fear of upsetting the wife further... That "threat" in your head has you managed. That is her goal, and it's working. 

This "controlling" thing she has in your head is the steering wheel, your obvious "hot button". Any pressure you put on her or anything you do that threatens her addiction and she yanks the steering wheel that direction and punches that button in.... and you back down... 

I don't know why that is your hot button.. Only you would know that.

You need to take some control of this situation, if you hope to influence the outcome.

There is subtle and clear difference there...

Control is the ability to purposefully direct, or suppress, change.

Controlling is to exercise authoritative or dominating influence over.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Well, I got the CD's on control issues yesterday. I listened to the first CD on the way to work. It has 12 questions each to determine if you are the controlling or the passive partner. I answered Yes to a couple of the controlling questions (1 of which is has your partner called you controlling). I answered Yes to all of the passive questions. She is looking at me like a mirror when she calls me controlling, isn't she. 

I am being managed.


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## Eli-Zor

You are fearful of your wife's reaction, stop being so she is no longer your wife and if you want her back you do all that is required to stop the affair. Tell her family, cut the Internet link, go for the OM via his family and friends , if she rants and raves offer her a cookie and keep to your marriage boundary , you will not tolerate an affair. You never leave your home, if she decides to go she goes of her own accord and she continues to pay half the bills. Keep firm, be strong and stop analysing what your WW will think, at this moment she does not care for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore

I am with everyone else on here Hurt, she should be the one to leave if anyone does. If she chooses to keep doing this then she needs to go. I had my husband delete her digits and get rid of her on fb, luckily she blocked both of us, and I know that for a fact because he very begrudgingly gave me his passwords. Tell her family, tell your family, tell his family. Concentrate on yourself and your kids, be the better man by becoming a better man, hopefully she'll pull her head out of you know where and realize what she would be losing and come home and you can work it out.

I know I am praying for the day where everything starts to feel right and good again, I hope that day comes for you too.


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## HurtinginTN

I attempted the "leave it alone" theory last night. I did pretty good, I think. She did cook us a nice supper. However, she had already eaten and was playing with him by the time I got home. Mine was in the microwave. It was very delicious and I have the rest here for lunch. At around 10:30, we discovered a leak in the roof. I patched it temporarily and will have to fix it better tomorrow. We sat down and played a game of Spider Solitaire and shared a cigarette. (I started back smoking the day after I discoverd the affair was actually what I suspected it was.) I thought we were going to bed, but she just sat there. I said, "You're going back to him at 10:40?"

Her: "Now you're trying to tell me when I should go to bed? I told him I heard a leak and I would be back."

Me: "Well, you don't want to disappoint the boyfriend. The husband don't mean s____, but you don't want to disappoint your boyfriend."

Her: "Why are you being like this? I cooked us a nice supper and did the dishes. You're upset because I didn't do everything you wanted me to do."

Me: "Well, you are having an affair right in front of my face. You don't give a f___ about me. You don't give a f___ about our marriage. You don't give a f___ about our kids."

Then, I walked out of the room. She came down and we talked for a few minutes. I said that I don't like her right now and I know she doesn't like me. We have 3 kids. The best thing for our children would be for us to work on our marriage and make it a great marriage. Our example will drasically affect the marriages of our children. For that reason alone, we should work this out. We can't work it out until she ends the affair.

She said, "Well, that's where you're mistaken. I don't want to work on our marriage."

Well, that pretty much sums it up. Her actions have said it for months. What now? I know, I need to expose the affair. Should I get a keylogger for proof when she tries to twist things for her family, etc.? How does that work? It won't show his side of the conversations. Wouldn't it only show what she types? Most of the interaction is just playing the game, which is done by mouse. The keylogger wouldn't reflect the time spent devoted to playing the game with him. That is the worst part.


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## paramore

when it comes to the computer techie stuff, I have zero clue, she could very well be emailing him as well, does she have facebook, if so see if he's on her page and see if you can get into either account so you have something you can actually print out. Kick her to the curb!!!! and the kids stay with you. Hopefully that will get the ball rolling in your favor. Tell her I don't want you in my home or our marriage while you continue to have this affair, when you are ready to contact him and say it's over and willing to fix our marriage, then you may come home. 

I know for a fact if I find out my husband is having contact with the EA woman, after Monday, I will have his bags packed and sitting by the door when he gets home from work, and will not be allowed back into our home to live until he ends it forever and is willing to be physically/emotionally faithful to me, while he is still married to me. (Honestly if I caught him doing it again at this point, after all we've gone through, I will be done with it.) But again, my situation is weird and waaayyyy messed up lol.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Brother... Please listen. 

Install a keylogger_* immediately.*_ If you dont find the courage to do anything else, DO THIS. 

Wont upset her because she wont know so your safe... No scalding of the dog. It will gather MUCH NEEDED information regardless of the path you choose. Information is power. Don't be the helpless victim here....

This window you have is very small and very tight. If you do not take some action... even if it's "passive action" (ie; keylogger, phone record documentation, etc..etc...) you will regret it. 

I promise you soon you will come back here with your head clear and you will be ready to take real action... Things will change, this will deteriorate... You will discover this is an iceburg and it's much worse than you think right now... there is still residual denial in you right now, helping you cope with this horrible pain. That pain and denial along with the fear and indecision caused by your wife's gaslighting are preventing you from taking action.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, I just called her. We talked for 38 minutes, just under the 42 minutes she talked to him. I have very mixed emotions about the outcome. Since I will not leave it alone, I am forcing her to make a decision. 

"I will play with him tonight. I will tell him that it is over. I am not doing this for you. I am doing this for the kids. I will play the beautiful wife and mother role. I will never like you, nor love you. You have forced me to do something that I don't want to do. I will pretend to have a happy marriage for my kids' sake."

"Pretending won't work."

"We've been pretending for years." 

"Then we'll work on our marriage?"

"NO, I AM NOT DOING THIS FOR YOU!!!! ARE YOU HAPPY NOW THAT YOU GET YOUR WAY?"

"Maybe we can go to marriage counselling."

"I'M NOT GOING TO F___ING MARRIAGE COUNSELLING! I AM NOT DOING THIS FOR YOU! I AM DOING THIS FOR THE KIDS!"

"So, you'll end the affair, but hold bitterness and resentment toward me for the rest of our lives?"

"YES"

OK, ending the affair was the most important thing for my marriage, according to all of the experts. Now what? Why do I feel worse now than before she said she would end it? There is no remorse on her part at all, just anger that I "forced" her into a decision. What do I do now?


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## SadSamIAm

I doubt that her statement about what she is going to do tonight is going to end the affair. You can't trust what she is telling you. Make sure that you are sitting there when she tells him that it is over.

Install the Key Logger so that you know what she tells him when you aren't there. She will for sure be in contact with him someway afterwards.


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## HurtinginTN

She said she won't do it in front of me. I have to leave her alone while she does it. I can't find a keylogger except for online. I will not be able to install it before tonight.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

SadSamIAm said:


> I doubt that her statement about what she is going to do tonight is going to end the affair. You can't trust what she is telling you. Make sure that you are sitting there when she tells him that it is over.
> 
> Install the Key Logger so that you know what she tells him when you aren't there. She will for sure be in contact with him someway afterwards.


Listen this what he said.

It WILL NOT end. 

You have to stop listening to her. She is managing you. 

Everything she does, and will do is motivated 100% to maintain this affair/addiction. You are now in the way, there is nothing she won't say or do to get you out of the way.


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## Eli-Zor

If she will not let you hear and witness the end then she is not ending the affair, assume this is going to go underground, be calm and in your time get the keylogger. Collect all his contact detail, friends family as well as hers. He probably have a facebook account as does she , copy the friends details into word and secure the files. You will need this information later on. 

When she breaks no contact with him and you have evidenced this via the keylogger or other means come back to us.

In the interim go to the affaircare.com site and read the items under articles , a second site marriagebuilders.com has further information for you.

DO NOT under any circumstance let her know what you are doing. She is a wayward and will behave with venom to you and lie, this is all part of the script.


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## paramore

Shows you right there Hurt she isn't going to end it if she won't do it in your presence, Do what Pit of my Stomach is saying. I get your pain, as I have been a complete wreck all flippin week, but regardless of the outcome, things will get better one way or another with time, stand up for yourself and your kids.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> I will not be able to install it before tonight.


Why? You can't get her out of the house before this conversation? you need 10 minutes, you cant get her away from the CPU for 10 minutes? 

This need to be done. You need to know what is said.

You can not possibly be considering taking her word for this can you???


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## HurtinginTN

I was looking at the hardware version that plugs inline with the keyboard. I'm at work and won't be home until her time with the boyfriend. I almost never get on the computer, so being on it for even 10 minutes would be obvious that I was up to something. Plus, it would probably take me much longer to figure out how to do it.


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## paramore

Tell your boss you need to go home early lol, but oh wait she stays home doesnt she.


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## HurtinginTN

Yes, she is there now. I may be able to do something this weekend. I'll look at the download versions. I was thinking of ordering the plug in type. I have never thought about the need for such a contraption. I've learned a lot over the past couple of weeks.


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## paramore

Me to bro.


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## HurtinginTN

I'm right with you about banging my head against the wall. I need to know what she tells him tonight. I can't get a keylogger installed before she does it. I won't be able to get online and watch the conversation unfold. Does anyone like to play spades? I know of a good game that will be going from 6:30 central time until who knows when. She won't do it with me in the room. She shows absolutely zero remorse, so I don't think she will actually do it. It will be more difficult for her to take it underground. Maybe that will make it not worth the effort. Then again, she may get more of a thrill from an underground relationship. Is there space on your wall for another head? Mine's about torn through. lol


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## calif_hope

What are their Spadester.com Usernames?


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## HurtinginTN

He uses "co.sucks" (last night), "badrep", "davidv33", "davidv32" (he must have had a birthday, lol). She has used "dept420", "BeYouTy", "mslead" (maybe it was "ms.lead") and most recently "roughgrl". Last night, they were using "roughgrl" and "co.sucks". If Colorado sucks so bad, why doesn't he leave? Is he on parole or something and can't leave the state? I asked my wife that. That is the craziest part. She is infatuated with a man she knows practically nothing about.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

If i didnt have plans I would sit in on that game for u... I have a church retreat tonight.

C'mon... I gotta believe you have can come up with a solution to get her away from the CPU... treat the family to McDonalds??? Give her cash to take the kids for ice cream??? something, anything... 

Right now you have the benefit of being underestimated and "well controlled" in her eyes.. that will NOT last long. If she doesnt already, she will install some type of instant messenger on your CPU (bet she already has, or is using Facebook IM which she can have open and chatting with OM at same time as playing cards) You cant believe that the level of intimacy they have developed is strictly a result of "public" chats on spadester where the whole table gets to see whats being said??? No, no chance they dont want some "privacy" and no chance he hasnt suggested an alternate means of communication... You have to put as many measures in place as possible ASAP, she/they WILL GO UNDERGROUND. Paranoia will set in, she will recogonize whats at stake.. or he will...

Get that keylogger on, tonight. Research, find a free one... copy the link, email it to yourself... get her away from the CPU, find a reason to be on it. (work?) install it.


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## paramore

I got plenty of room on my wall Hurt...the only thing I can do at this point is add any family that isn't alltel to ourcircle, and monitor his txt messages from the website. If they go up signifigantly, then I am pretty sure I have my answer, cuz all of our friends have alltel too, so it doesn't go against his txt plan. Then he comes home to packed bags by the door, and don't call me unless it's about the kids.


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## SadSamIAm

Don't know anything about Spadester. Not sure if they have to chat in public or if they can chat privately.

I bet there will be 10 people from TAM trying to sit at their table to hear the conversations for you.


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## HurtinginTN

I don't know anything about Alltell. Do you have control over the "circle" or at least a list of the circle? Could he add the OW to the circle without you knowing it? I don't want to give you another reason to bang your head on the wall. I know I have enough reasons right now. Hang in there. It has to get better than this. (At least that's what I keep telling myself.)


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## paramore

The acct is in my name, he's never bothered to go to the website, I do all of the adding and taking off. She was on ourcircle until Monday when I found the txts on his phone, she was taken off within an hour. Is it normal to obsess like this lol, I think initially it must be. lol, my mom says I have to stop, but I have a right to know I won't be made a fool of again.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> She is infatuated with a man she knows practically nothing about.


This is not true. I think somewhere inside, U know that. What you see right now is the tip of an iceburg. With all due respect, and my empathy/sympathy for your situation... Please remove ur head from ur arce. lol.


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## HurtinginTN

LOL. But it's been up there for so long!! The real world (at least mine right now) sucks!! On Spadester, you can see the chat and even chat without sitting at the table. I don't know if there is the possibility for private chat. I believe all of it is on the normal chat level. It has an area on the right of the main screen labelled "Friends". She goes there every night to search for him. He does the same if she's there first. They will chat even while the other person is in the middle of the game. Of course, with spades, there are only 4 players at the table (3 on the cutthroat). But there is no limit (I don't think) on how many can view a particular table. I have viewed the table and just watched the chat. That was my intention the night I told him to "Stay away from my wife." I was just going to watch the chat, but my anger took over when I saw them talking. Often, the site messes up during a game. If that happens, they immediately go find another table so they can continue playing. It's crazy. If she had shown 10% of the devotion she shows to him to our marriage, we would both be blissfully happy. I tried a friend of mine to see if he could watch. Unfortunately, his internet is down. Oh well, it should be an interesting weekend.


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## paramore

Hurt I am so sorry, I cannot judge your wife because i made horrible horrible mistakes, but I have come along way, and she is not treating you well, I put on my big girl panties, not gonna take it, I saw the light, I hope you can do what you need to do to hopefully save your family. I am not giving up on mine, it'll be awhile, long while before I do. I hope both of our stories have happy endings.


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## HurtinginTN

I've asked the past 2 weeks for a date on Saturday night. Last week, she declined. That is what set me off to go to Spadester and tell him to "Stay away from my wife." Today, I called her to ask her out. "Why would I want to go out with you when you treated me like s___ last night?" I got upset with her when she was getting back online with her boyfriend at 10:40 pm after playing with him all night. I guess I was just supposed to sit idly by while she is in the midst of her affair. Today's conversation deteriorated into "I'll end it tonight for the kids' sake. For forcing me to do something I don't want to do, I will never like you or love you. I will pretend for the kids' sake." Our marriage is a one-way street. I'm trying, she is chopping.


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## HurtinginTN

Thanks, paramore. I hope everything works out well for you, too.


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## Craggy456

paramore said:


> I put on my big girl panties,.


 Hope they're not like the parachute I found under my husband's bed :lol:


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## paramore

lmao craggy, your post made me smile. If she continues to do this just kick her out Hurt, no one deserves that kind of treatment.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, she isn't going to stop. She asked him to change his name. He changed it to "takensry". Taken sorry? Well, that certainly shows his stance. She said some woman was giving her a hard time about spending so much time with her man. Well, I imagine that must have been someone from here. My CD on control issues said that you can never tell someone "Choose him or me." If they choose you, they will only harbor resentment. Well, I will only build resentment the longer it lasts. I knew it wouldn't be over when she said it today. I suppose above ground is better than underground. I will look for the key logger.


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## Powerbane

Edit


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## HurtinginTN

Don't you love his name? Referring to be taken by my wife. Does it get any worse than that?


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## Powerbane

OK - Hurting - I sent you some pretty damning PM's from the chats. 

You need to expose this thing far and wide - her family - your family - pastors - everyone. You probably won't find out much about the OM(takensry - slimeball)

You have got to take a stand - especially when he is saying I left someone because I had feelings for you. UGH barf

It's a damn jackass. 

The she has the gall to say I want to call u but my husband is in here. I wish I could have reached through and grabbed you right then Hurting....

Guys - what other advice do we have for our friend?

Eli-zor - Affaircare - anyone? Conrad AFEH - Anyone?

Hurting - you've got your work cut out for you. 

I wish you well and am praying you get through this before it goes PA and D.

By the way - I HATE SPADES!!!!!!!!


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## paramore

Oh my God I am just floored Power. You have proof now Hurt, expose that woman. She was supposed to be "ending it" bullcrap. I wish I could give you a big old hug. You don't deserve to be lied to and used this way. Kick her out and keep the kids at home, this is just messed up. Hurt, you have some proof now, I pray to god in the next few days I don't find anything damning, I hope mine is keeping his word.


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## Eli-Zor

Use the same tools they use:

Expose the affair to the OM's friends and family, cause grief in his life, do this all at once, if you use facebook messaging leave 60 seconds between each message and do not tell your wife. Sample letter below. 



> Dear friend of XXXX,(full name of OM)
> 
> It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends and family should know that XXX is having an affair with my wife, (your wifes first and last name) . They started the affair in ZZZZ.
> 
> As you may know XXX and has taken advantage of my wife to impose himself into our marriage.
> 
> I am asking you to use your influence with XXXX to persuade him to leave my family alone.
> 
> I believe that you should know this, so you can protect your marriages from him. My wife and I have X small daughters/sons and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.
> 
> XXX has intentionally chosen to commit adultery with my wife and is purposefully working to destroy our family and marriage.
> 
> I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.
> 
> I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-yyy-zzz
> 
> Thank you,


Let your wife's parents and siblings know and tell them you are fighting for your marriage.



Go to the affaircare site and read the articles.

Articles


and Marriage Builders 

Articles

I suggest you start a Plan A, the first part is exposure, break the affair,


> *The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A*
> 
> 
> The carrot of Plan A
> 
> Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
> 
> Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
> 
> Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
> 
> Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
> 
> Stop lovebusting behaviors.
> 
> Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
> 
> Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
> 
> Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
> 
> Offering forgiveness and understanding.
> 
> 
> The stick of Plan A
> 
> Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
> 
> Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
> 
> Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
> 
> Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
> 
> Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
> 
> Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financial security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
> 
> Standing up to infidelity for the good of the family.




Do not leave the house, if your wife does the children stay with you. She abandons the family not you 

Look after your heath and well being . Eat well, be calm at all times, this is going to be the toughest ride of your life so be prepared for the long haul, mentally and physically .


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## the guy

You have some good evidence, now you need some additional info. Is there a way you can find out who this guy is? For exposure to really bight it has to hit both parties. 
Both of them needs to feel the pressure and your wife seems like she can take the expose more then the OM b/c we really don't nothing about OM.
But if you investigate and get the personal info ie. wife, gf, residence, employer. This will have more wieght on exposure...you now can expose both of them. there by creating pressure on both parties in ending their affair. Or at the very least make it lees convienent.

If you can directly contact this guy and present the evidence, you can also convince him that he needs to stop all contact with wife, and most importantly...refrain from telling your wife that you had a lttle chat.

If you find that this guy is married he will keep his mouth shut and stop contacting your wife. Hopefuly he will break up with your wife and she will be none the wiser.

Granted it could back fire its your call, but the point is you need to find out as much as you can about this guy so either way you want to expose this affair it will have a greater impact then if it was just expose it on your wife side and not his.
He to needs the "motivation" to end the affair.

Good look on your investigation.


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## paramore

Hurt, go for it...I finally found a way to get a call log, now I am on the fence if I should wait it out, or tell him tonight I found a way to see incoming and outgoing calls, wondering if I should tell him that, and see if he fesses up.


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## HurtinginTN

UGH!! I thought I had a good plan. I asked her on a date for tonight. I told the kids I had asked her out. They are staying at their grandparents for the night. I told her I'm going to a club. Right now, I'm watching their table at a table in McDonald's. There is no chat. That means they are on the phone. I will have the phone record, but that does me no good right now. I have no proof of what they are talking about. 

One good thing is we've needed a new phone for quite a while. The battery only lasts about 15 - 20 minutes. I've offered several times, but she wanted to research to find the best one. LOL. Her insistence in waiting means she will only be able to talk to him for a short time. The chatting will start soon. I wanted to capture all of the chat from tonight to print out and share with her family, friends, etc.


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## HurtinginTN

They just moved to a private table. 2 players vs 1 Bot.


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## HurtinginTN

How do I save screenshots? I can't copy and past the chat. Please help soon so I can capture this garbage.


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## the guy

If you have a phone number you will be able to find this guy. That is better then you had, So get the phone number from the account and track this down. Remember if you expose expose to her family and his. If you confront now she may take it deeper. I suggest you fing out who this guy is.


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## turnera

HurtinginTN said:


> Does her upcoming appointment with a counsellor make a difference? Should I ride it out until then? She is going for the panic attacks, but surely this affair will be mentioned as the main cause of her anxiety.


You're delusional. You know what her 'cause' will be when she talks to IC? 

YOU.

YOU are making her miserable.

YOU are controlling.

You are unloving.

You are telling her how to live, and she just can't see how she can stand it much longer; it's hard to live with a monster.

And guess what IC is going to tell her?

You need to take care of YOU, and if he (meaning you) is harming you, you need to move on, so you can be happy and healthy.


----------



## turnera

Ok, caught up. So you're getting proof. You've asked her to stop, and she has refused. Your next step is to expose the affair. Who is the ONE most important person in her life? Her mother? Sister? Friend?

CALL that one person, and explain it all, and ask them to help you by talking to her and letting her know she's infatuated and not making rational decisions. Let them let HER know they will NOT support her leaving you for him. She needs to hear some reality from her loved ones. 

If that ONE person doesn't shake her up, tell the rest of her family and friends. Then sit back and wait for her anger. She'll tell you that you ruined EVERYTHING! That she WAS going to choose you, but NOW you've ruined everything. That everyone thinks you're crazy and scary for calling them. All right along with the threats she's already made. Just ignore them. They are just the idle threats of a drug addict when you threaten her drug source.

At the same time, you need to be doing an amazing Plan A - taking a good look at yourself and what you may have been doing that she may not like, and replacing that with better acts. In other words, don't give her a reason to leave you.

Finally, no matter WHAT you do, DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE.

If she isn't happy, SHE can leave. But she will do so WITHOUT the kids. Period. Non-negotiable. Don't even discuss it. If it gets to a fight, offer to help her pack her bags, but you will call the police if she tries to take the kids out of the house.

Hurt, this is the ONE TIME in your life that you have to be a real man, FIRM, no nonsense, unmoveable. 

Trust me, trust all the others here who've seen hundreds of people in your shoes, and KNOW that only by standing firm do you have ANY chance of keeping her. I know that seems counterintuitive, but you have to trust us.

It's not a guarantee she'll choose you. But it IS a guarantee you won't be stuck married to a woman who will choose to cheat on you, no matter what happens.


----------



## the guy

turnere, that kind of freaked me out;-)

you know the 1st post.

the 2nd one sound more like it


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## turnera

Well, the first one is what's going to happen with the counselor when she goes.

You think she's going to say 'oh, gee, doctor, I'm cheating on my husband, and I just don't understand why he won't be ok with it'?

No, it'll be 'he's mean! I can't stand him any more. He's so controlling! I swear, he must be an abuser.'

And the IC, only hearing HER side, will agree.


----------



## the guy

Hey Powerbane is there any way Hurting can find more about this jackass, I mean he can blow the top off this thing if he can send it to OM side as well?

As we all know once he exposes this it will most definitly make it more out in the open and less convienent for it to continue, and at the thevery least turn this fantasy into a nightmare fot both parties.


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## maggot brain

HurtinginTN said:


> I guess I was just supposed to sit idly by while she is in the midst of her affair.


After reading the entire thread I have to say that is *exactly* what you have been doing. 
Sorry man, good luck.


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## HurtinginTN

I talked to her brother. He agrees that it is bulls___. He is going to call her and try to draw it out of her so she doesn't know I told him. She respects his opinion more than anyone else. If that doesn't work, I'll expose it to the whole family. From what I've seen tonight, I will never let me kids be near this man. I can't believe she would even think about it.


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## Powerbane

Hurt is on recoring the chats well I think - either way I have last nigths to him and am getting the one going on right now. The site is stupid - they have no idea people are looking at the chat.


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## Powerbane

oh good you're here Brother Hurt 

These other guys are the more experienced. I'm just a tech head for you.

And a sympathetic ear. 

You do have some work on you to do too.


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## Powerbane

I would be yanking the internet ASAP from the house.

Seriously - get damn dial up again or nothing.

Don't enable
Or blocking spadesters.com in the hosts file - unless she is a techie - never will find it.


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## turnera

So, assuming that she is a stay at home mom, since she home schools, YOU pay all the bills, right?

Then, since she refuses to stop, your next step should be to cut the internet and cell phones. If she HAS to contact him, she can do it through your land line - where you can get his phone number.

This is YOU protecting your marriage and family - "I will not PAY for you to CHEAT on me in MY house."


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## HurtinginTN

Well, it went as expected. As soon as he was too sick from drinking too much and went to bed, she started calling me. I ignored the phone calls for a while, went to a bar and drank a couple of beers. (actually 2, not alcoholic talk for many). Somehow, she thought to check on our daughter's laptop. When I finally answered, she asked me where it was. I told her I had it and I want a divorce. I have the transcripts of the entire night. The things she said to him are unforgiveable.

When I got home, she came downstairs. I said "Stay away from me. I don't want to see your face." I went out and took the dog for a walk.

When I came back in, she came down again. I told her to stay away from me or I'm leaving. I am too angry right now to be near you. I have pride in the fact that I have never hit a woman. I also know that last night, I hated her more than anything in the world. I gave her what for. 

Later, she went to bed and I laid on the couch. Shortly, she called my name. I said, "Why would you be calling my name and why am I coming to you." I had calmed down some by that time. I laid next to her and she cried on my shoulder for a while. Then, she flipped a switch and moved to her side of the bed. I'm not exactly sure what happened to cause that. I believe it came after this little exchange.

Her: "You think the things I said are horrible."

Me: "Absolutely"

Her: "What about the things you said."

I thought for a few minutes and responded.

"I suppose I should have used a lower tone of voice. However, I will no longer be your doormat to wipe your muddy feet on before you run to him. I will no longer allow an affair to go on in this home. I can't make your choice, that is true. However, choices have consequences. The consequences of you continuing this affair will be great. I was a fool with the wool pulled over my eyes. I had a hundred people telling me to yank the internet, etc. Who did I believe? My cheating wife. (I am surprised I don't see a lot of "I told you so"s today. Thanks for all of the advice and for not rubbing it in my face what a fool I've been for not listening.) You are free to leave whenever you want. My children will not leave with you. My children will never be around that man. I saw enough issues from him tonight that they will never see him."

I also said that I will work through the common 7 steps to end an affair. It is mostly what everyone says here. I can't remember where I saw the 7 steps laid out. I had told her when we talked on my way home that I was going to file for divorce Monday morning. The things she said still seem unforgivable. Our second daughter's name is Adora, which my wife found in a baby book. It means "One who is adored." Last night, she told him at least twice, "I adore you." To most, that word is not very powerful. To her and to me, it is probably the most powerful word in the English language. I told her that for the rest of my life, I will be unable to say my daughter's name without thinking about this night.

Powerbane, thank you very much for the chat last night. He told me that we can work this out. I kept telling him how much I hate her right now. He kept telling me she is an addict. IF she ends it today in front of my face, I told her we will work on our marriage. If not, she is no longer welcome in this house. I suppose that was a bit harsh and soon. I have not blocked Spadester yet. He will "be there all day today waiting for her." Well, it's 11:00 am and he's not there yet. I keep checking. If I go out of the room, I take the modem with me. I have kept the modem and all phones in my proximity since last night. I don't want her sneaking some contact to him. 

She hasn't spoken to me all day. A few words. I asked if she wanted some coffee. "I'll fix it." She asked if I had bought some Lysol. I told her it wasn't on the list she made, but I will go get some. That's about it. Not one hug. No physical contact nor eye contact all morning. Perhaps I handled it wrong last night, but that is par for the course. I have handled it wrong from the beginning. 

As far as I'm concerned right now, I am completely done with her. For the kids' sake and since everyone tells me it is like an addict, I will give the marriage a chance. I can't do it alone, though. She hasn't been willing to try, why should I foolishly believe she would now?

Still hurting in TN, now more than ever in my whole life.


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## HurtinginTN

She told him last night she was planning on buying a prepaid phone so she could call him. However, part of my sucking up to her for all of these years is that I am her little errand boy. She rarely goes to the store. She rarely even leaves the house. I do almost all of the shopping. I have told her that she needs to get out more often. However, why would she? Her boyfriend has been right her on the computer in our bedroom for months.
I am soooo ready to kick her to the curb.

Anybody want to give me a reason not too? The kids? Would they be better off with a single dad over a horribly distraught dad? Is she really the great mother I have thought she was for all these years? My daughter was crying her eyes out a couple of nights ago. She asked her mother to play a game with all of us. Of course, she was too busy with her internet lover. I rocked my daughter for quite a while. I am at the end of my rope. She doesn't want to work on our marriage. I don't want to work on our marriage now either. I truly don't know if I can ever forget, forgive, or get over the things she said last night.

"I want you so bad, I can taste it." Never in almost 13 years of marriage has she said anything like that to me. I told her last night, our marriage bed has to be the coldest one in the history of planet earth. However, you talk all this trash to man you have never met. If you had ever talked to me that way, our marriage would have been so incredibly much better.

There was more. I am leaning hard on filing for divorce tomorrow. IF she doesn't start showing some remorse and end it with him today, I don't think I have the patience or the caring to work through any of the steps for ending affairs.


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## Powerbane

I was glad to try and help and I meant what I said - she is an addict

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Try these. 

This can be saved. 

First step is to get brother to talk with her. She is going to be mad because she is in the fog. 

You also need to enlist help from her parents. 

Just remember - you got more friends than you know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

At least one has to want to save it. You were right there with me last night. You saw the things she said. I don't have word on this computer, so I can't print the transcripts. I did print the 3 screen shots you sent me. They are sitting on the kitchen table.

She's wasing the dishes. Part of me says to go help her. The other part don't want to be in the same house as her. I am "torn" to use the word she has used the past couple of weeks.


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## Eli-Zor

I want you to read this in the spirit it is written, to help save you and/or your marriage.

Read your posts, you are a DOORMAT , your wife is still walking all over you. 

Plan A says expose. You do not have the OM's details , yet , however since you have already told her you have the chat transcripts, expose this to all her family and a number of her good friends, friends that will be pro-marriage. 

Her world must go into turmoil, she will contact the OM. Be ready load the keylogger, not a hardware one she finds and pulls out, a software one that forwards the details to you. Be prepared . Have a plan at all times. Sit your children down and tell them of the affair. 

With immediate effect you state the following 



> No contact ever again with the OM - agree to send him a no contact letter - on the games forum if necessary
> 
> Complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc
> 
> No more opposite sex friendships or online gaming, she can't be tusted
> 
> Complete honesty about her affair
> 
> Commitment to a program of recovery that restores your marriage


She will ignore and oppose this, standard for a Wayward Spouse . 

There is no diluting this, the moment she says no you take drastic hard measures. If she carries on the affair from your house you pack her bags and move her to her mothers or brothers house, you cut her finances off. 

You carry on Plan A with her not Plan doormat. 

Rock their little word and publish the affair. 

Items you should acquire soon..

1. Keylogger such as 

Keylogger | Remote Computer Monitoring Software With Keyloggers | Web Watcher Now

or Eblaster and SpectorPro

2. A VAR (Voice activated Recorder)

3. Flexispy for her mobile phone

You want the OM's details, patience and time are on your side , you take him out of the picture once you have his information

Use sites like Pipl - People Search. to track the OM down

Do not tell her what you are doing , never play your hand.


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## Eli-Zor

Your wife and the OM are not very clever using a games forum where others can read the chats, I would create an ID and log into it and post a message for all gamers to read. Many will not respond positively, most will say nothing however identifying their handle will have others looking for their chats, it will add to their discomfort.


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## Runs like Dog

Seems like an exhausting amount of work to spy on someone who clearly does not want you and you just as clearly don't want much either. What are you looking for; justification? To whom?


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## Eli-Zor

Indeed: Saving ones marriage and family is exhausting work, not as traumatic and exhausting as a divorce under these circumstances.


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## paramore

Eli-Zor said:


> Indeed: Saving ones marriage and family is exhausting work, not as traumatic and exhausting as a divorce under these circumstances.


Truer words never spoken Eli


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## Runs like Dog

Eli-Zor said:


> Indeed: Saving ones marriage and family is exhausting work, not as traumatic and exhausting as a divorce under these circumstances.


Spying on someone doesn't sound like 'saving' anything. Look maybe it's me but if you burn me like that you've made an implacable enemy for life. A lot of things are forgivable but running around with someone else, screwing them, making you look like an idiot, being proud of that, then climbing to the heights of Angry Mount Self Righteous about it, isn't one of them. It's just not. Not if you have any self respect.


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## Eli-Zor

Take this to another thread, do not digress the original poster who is asking for help , do some reading go the the affaircare and marriagebuilders sites. Both have considerably more experience in saving marriages that most on this site


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## MEM2020

Read up on a "180". It is the most likely way to save your marriage. 




HurtinginTN said:


> At least one has to want to save it. You were right there with me last night. You saw the things she said. I don't have word on this computer, so I can't print the transcripts. I did print the 3 screen shots you sent me. They are sitting on the kitchen table.
> 
> She's wasing the dishes. Part of me says to go help her. The other part don't want to be in the same house as her. I am "torn" to use the word she has used the past couple of weeks.


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## Eli-Zor

The 180, this combined with Plan A will give you some guidance..



> Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
> 
> No frequent phone calls.
> 
> Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
> 
> Don't follow her/him around the house.
> 
> Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
> 
> Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
> 
> Don't ask for reassurances.
> 
> Don't buy or give gifts.
> 
> Don't schedule dates together.
> 
> Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
> 
> Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
> 
> Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
> 
> Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
> 
> When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
> 
> If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
> 
> Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
> 
> Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
> 
> No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
> 
> All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
> 
> Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
> 
> Don't be overly enthusiastic.
> 
> Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
> 
> Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
> 
> Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
> 
> Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
> 
> Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
> 
> Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
> 
> Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
> 
> Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
> 
> Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behaviour.
> 
> Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
> 
> Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
> 
> When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behaviour that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little affair bubble"


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## turnera

Runs like Dog said:


> Spying on someone doesn't sound like 'saving' anything. Look maybe it's me but if you burn me like that you've made an implacable enemy for life. A lot of things are forgivable but running around with someone else, screwing them, making you look like an idiot, being proud of that, then climbing to the heights of Angry Mount Self Righteous about it, isn't one of them. It's just not. Not if you have any self respect.


 Have you cheated, Dog? Most people who oppose the notion of exposure turn out to be - or have been - cheating, themselves. Of course such a person would oppose it.

His wife is a DRUG ADDICT right now. She CRAVES the attention of OM like a drug; get in her way and ALL SHE THINKS ABOUT is getting more of the drug. 

But, just like a drug addict, she CAN go clean. She CAN get it out of her veins and get her right mind back; the mind that, just 2 years ago, would have been horrified of the thought of being a cheater.

That person's still in there, but the drug is SO powerful, SO addicting, that she simply cannot see straight right now, when she still has access to the drug.

That's what exposure is for - to HELP her go cold turkey and get her right mind back.


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## paramore

I am with turnera on this one.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, I told her father this morning. I told her that. She went ballistic. He's the one person that she tries to please the most. Her relationship with him has never been that good. She feels like she can't please him. Now, he knows about this affair. She said me telling him hurt more than anything in her life. I explained that I tried to reason with her. I delayed the exposure for weeks when it should have been done. Last night's chat, which I printed out a page of screen prints, showed me that this thing is much more horrifying than my worst dreams. I am ready to sign the papers and leave her for good. Her father was bound to find out. What was going to happen? "We're getting a divorce." "Why" "Oh, just because." She could not have reasonably expected this thing to continue and grow without him finding out eventually. Still, she is very hurt and angry that I told him.

She gave me his phone number. I burned it. She claims that she doesn't know his last name and does not have his number written down anywhere else. (I can find it on the bill. I don't know if she'll think of that. I'll know if that bill has been opened.) She got online and told him it was over in my presence. In my mind, the performance today was not nearly as convincing as her performance last night. 

Do I believe it's over? No, she shows no remorse. She will try to contact him again. She told him she chooses her husband over him. But I was right there and she was asking me what to type. I told her to convince him and me that it was over. She told him that she couldn't play with him anymore because she was going to lose her marriage and her kids.

I'm at a loss for my next steps. Does the 180 work now? Or should I be trying to build her love bank balance? Am I still being a doormat? How do I block Spadester? Well, one day at a time.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Your wife and the OM are not very clever using a games forum where others can read the chats, I would create an ID and log into it and post a message for all gamers to read. Many will not respond positively, most will say nothing however identifying their handle will have others looking for their chats, it will add to their discomfort. 

They can change the screen names at the drop of a hat. I will block Spadester. It is deleted, but could be easily re-downloaded. I have to figure out how to do that. I was very clear. No future contact, No searches for him, No spadester, No phone calls. She mentioned last night in her chat with him about getting a prepaid phone. I'll have to keep an eye out for that. I asked several times and she looked me in the eye and said she doesn't have his last name, nor his phone number. She went for a walk. She could be buying one right now. Will I always have paranoia? Is this relationship even worth the effort? Will trust ever be rebuilt?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## paramore

It's always worth saving if you want to step and fight, trust, very possibly with time. Paranoia? I dunno lol. I am slightly less paranoid that I was a week ago, but it's still there.


----------



## the guy

For me it was validation, forthcoming,openness,accountabilty, when my wife asked what that ment i told her she nolonger has privacy.
I'm am the cheater police and you are in my cusdity. I further explained that I will want to have access to everything. In addition to these consequences she was spanked.... yes I spanked her butt and told he if I ever even suspect she is contactact any one that I don't approve of she is out the door.

Her choice was to except all the terms except the spanking. I explain that was the one term I was not negotiating with.

Her mistake was the statement she made when I confronted her"I'll do any thing, I'm sorry" . Well it been a year since and she has taken a liking to the spanking, but I can't find any reaso to spank her. She has been a open book since Feb 15, 2010.

Point is the both of you need to talk on your term, not hers.


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## paramore

the guy said:


> Well it been a year since and she has taken a liking to the spanking, but I can't find any reason to spank her. Ok THIS made me smile:rofl: .


----------



## Eli-Zor

Step back and take deep breath. The following advice is sound:-

Do not believe the affair is over.
Find his number and track his name and address down, your wife absolutely knows more than she is letting on, she is protecting the OM, WS often protect the OM until all the truth is forced out. 
Keep a clear head, stop talking, you are telling your wife far to much.
Block the site either by entering a dummy address against the link in the host file or block it on your router .
Assume she and he are going to go underground.
Do not negotiate the terms to save your marriage .
No contact for life
Full acknowledgement of the affair and all details should you choose
Full transparency going forward, no games or Internet .
Commitment to rebuild the marriage.

Do not blink, have courage, be strong for your children
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## michzz

Eli-Zor said:


> Block the site either by entering a dummy address against the link in the host file or block it on your router .


I like this idea, but go one better. Reroute to some site that lambasts her kind of behavior.


----------



## Eli-Zor

BTW: have confidence your wife does not have a plan she is going to do what waywards do and follow a script, you on the other had have a large team many who have hard experience in breaking affairs and recovering marriages.

If you are not sure how to change the host file or need help tracking the OM down ASK.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HurtinginTN

OK, I saw a google search for cell phone lookup. She says she didn't find anything. I kind of believe her because my search didn't achieve results either. She may be better than I am at that, though. I find it hard to believe that his last name didn't come up in a 42 minute phone conversation. Yes, she definitely knows more than she is letting on. It took a lot of hard pressing to get her to give me the paper his phone number was written on. I do not believe her when she says she don't know it anymore and don't know his last name.

She called him on my cell phone. He can also do a reverse phone lookup to find me, can't he? Then, he has her information. I am thinking of calling him to confront him. Should I do that? He obviously didn't listen when I told him on Spadester to "Stay away from my wife." Would calling him do any good?

I am confused on the 180 and the hard fast rules. One of the rules is that she has to put forth effort in building the marriage. The 180 makes it look like I don't care about the marriage. I know she doesn't give a flip about it.


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## paramore

I know the 180 seems like you are doing the opposite, but reading through it, it does have some really valid points.


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## Eli-Zor

A 180 is to protect your sanity, follow it at the same time work hard to fill her emotional needs. Get that keylogger loaded and buy a VAR , the affair may well be dead you need hard evidence. One futher word Polygraph , always works and is what waywards fear . At a point in time in the future I suggest you arrange a polygraph, you give her two days notice to come clean .

In the interim sleep, try not to stress , you have a way forward she does not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## HurtinginTN

Should I call him?


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## paramore

I called the OW, left a polite message stating, in a shaky voice This is *******I saw your txts to my husband, and I expect you to not have any contact with my husband, we are having problems and the only way we have any chance is if he has a clear head, and just in case I sent her a fb message stating the same thing. I remember making the call, it was about 10 minutes after I found the txts, man it was hard keeping it together.


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## Eli-Zor

If you have the constitution call, no emotion, make it clear you will fight for your marriage and if he ever contacts your wife in any way shape or form you will make his life extremely uncomfortable, at work and at home, you will pull our all stops to protect your wife.It will not go amiss to mention that her family know of him and are backing you.

Do not threaten him, no emotion say your piece and put down the phone, do not entertain a dialog or threaten him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## paramore

I am with Eli on this one, once I find out if there was other contact, if there was I am kicking him out and gonna start exposing, you can do it Hurt.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Well, today is my first day of the 180. A couple of small changes. I usually wear glasses, but my wife thinks I look better (I agree) with my contacts. I usually wear my glasses to work and my contacts on the weekends when I'm around her. When I said I was going to a bar Saturday night, she looked at me and said, "You are quite a handsome man. You better keep it under control tonight. You DO have to put your wedding ring back on." Well, that is the first time she has called me handsome in many years. I do believe it was a genuine compliment, but her actions as soon as she thought I wasn't looking put serious doubt on that. I do find it amusing that she wanted me to put my wedding ring back on before I went to a bar, but then she proceeded to have her affair. Well, today I am wearing my contacts to work.

Another thing I haven't done in a long time that she likes is wearing cologne. I did spray some on Saturday night. I also sprayed some on this morning. Even Saturday night, I told her I would much rather spend time with her than go out to the bar. She still declined and proceeded with her horrible chatting.

I decided this morning also to start working out again. With my appetite loss the past couple of weeks, I have lost about 15 pounds. Looking in the mirror this morning and flexing my abs, with a lot of imagination, I thought I saw what might resemble the beginnings of a 6-pack. I will clean out the garage tonight to try to find the buried workout bench.

I wrote a script to call the OM this morning. Please let me know if you have any suggestions. I plan to call him tonight.

D.,
This is T.’s husband. I would like to talk to you for a few minutes.

First of all, I want to apologize for the pain my wife has caused you. She misled you and me for all of these months. She spent many hours developing a relationship with you without letting you know she was married. The time she devoted to you implied that she was an available woman. She told me I was just jealous and insecure when I got angry for the time she was spending with you. 

Right now, there are 3 broken hearts; yours, mine, and T.’s. We are all adults and are responsible for our broken hearts. I have been trying my best to make T. happy for all of these years. However, I have been playing the wrong tune. T. and I have been trying to play different songs and the melody has been all messed up. Instead of realizing that I needed to change what song I was playing, I only tried harder and harder to play my tune better. In doing so, I failed to meet her emotional needs. I admit that and I am taking deliberate actions to change. Also, I should have trusted my gut instinct and taken steps to end this affair months ago.

T. should have been up front with you and let you know she was married early on. Perhaps then you would have thought twice about investing so much of your time developing a relationship with a married woman. Also, if she had of invested the time that she spent with you on our marriage, our relationship would have grown instead of becoming shattered.

You should have asked if she was married early on before investing so much time with her. Once you found out she was married, you should have backed off. However, she was telling you by her actions and possibly her words that she was more interested in you than in her marriage.

As she told you yesterday, her affair with you is over. I will no longer tolerate an affair in our marriage. She has promised that she will have no further contact with you, ever. I ask that you respect that as well. I can’t tell you what to do. However, please be aware that if you continue your relationship with my wife, the # of broken hearts will double. We have 3 wonderful children that T. and I both love very deeply. I have told T. repeatedly over the past couple of weeks that the best thing for our children is for us to work on our marriage. Not just stay married for the kids, but develop a loving, blissful marriage. This will take work, and it certainly will not happen if there is any further contact between you and her.

I ask you to not try to contact her in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I also ask you to refuse any contact that she may try to initiate. You don’t owe me anything, but I ask you to consider the impact on our children.

I understand that you have a hole in your heart right now. So do I. I went to a counselor last week over this affair. He gave me a book that is supposed to help fill that void. The name of the book is “The Search for Significance” by Robert S. McGee. I hope it helps me get through this. You may want to consider giving it a try as well.


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## Powerbane

DO NOT APOLOGIZE FOR SQUAT...

The slimeball will not care. He knew she was married and he carried on. 

Try this instead - 

Do not attempt to contact my wife in any way shape fashion or form. If you do - I will make your life a living hell. If she calls you - hang up, if she texts you - do not respond, if she emails you - do not answer. I saw the entire interaction between you on Saturday night and it is disgusting that you would be trying to steal a married woman from her husband and kids. I will not sit idly by and enable this affair any longer. Get Lost Slimeball - GOOD BYE.

Face it this scum does not care about you or your wife - oh one last thing - go back and edit your wife's name out of the post - lets keep as much anonymity on this site as we can. 

If you need more Hurt - please call or email me - you have both of my contact details. 

By the way - you've got more friends than you know - you never know what people God will move to help you.

I applaud your efforts thus far - forget the slime and work on yourself (which I see and is great).


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## HurtinginTN

You were right there with me Saturday night. Yes, he shouldn't be fooling around with a married woman. However, she never told him she was married until very recently. That is one thing we argued about quite often over the past several months. "You should mention that you are married." "Then, I'll feel like a fool if he doesn't have any interest. If he shows interest, I'll tell him I'm married." A few weeks ago, after she was having her panic attacks, she told me that she had told him she was married. She was very frightened by the panic attacks and fully thought she was going to die. She has made several changes, and probably told him as one of those. By that point, the man had invested months and way too many hours in her. Also, by the huge amount of time she had invested with him, she was telling him that he was more important to her than her marriage. 

I have hated that man for months. I served about 10 years in the Marine Corps Reserve in the infantry. I imagined using every sort of close combat skills on that man. However, as my head starts to clear, I kind of feel sorry for him. He was misled. True, the past couple of weeks, he has known she was married. However, her actions and probably words (definitely now, but probably before) told him her marriage was just on paper and her heart belonged to him. 

Another reason I feel sorry for him is his unusual responses Saturday night. You even said "weird" when we were discussing it. He may have some mental issues. I surely don't understand why he would have reacted in the way that he did. 

Those are the reasons I think being kind and respectful with him would be the way to go. Also, what harm could I do him? Of course, I could do physical harm, but that would be foolish. It wouldn't help anything and just put me in jail. He appears to be a single man. He has to be actually. No woman would allow her man to spend so much time playing spades with another woman. A pushover doormat like me might allow his wife too, but I don't see any woman allowing her man to do that.

Therefore, there is no relationship that I could bring harm to by exposing him on his end. It's very strange that I feel this way, but my head seems clearer today than in a very long time.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Do not send that letter, or use that rubbish as a script to talk to this guy.

What your planning to say is going to do MUCH more damage than good. Better to say nothing at all than that crap. 

Sorry dude, Ive tried to be straight forward but Ive pulled punches as I dont know how you cope and have no idea what style is going to resonate with you... and I want to help you. 

Now, they tried (OM & ur W) to forcefully remove your head from your arce by allowing you to have easy access to their debauchery. That will not continue!! 

Let me assure you... The game is on now. You are not going to be able to see the playing field with your head up there...

Lemme give you a picture in ur head / an anology ....

One of my favorite movies... The Matrix...

YOU ARE IN IT. Think about it. You are no longer dealing with reality, at least the reality you think... 

Right now you have that cell phone in your hand...

Us: (we) I can guide you, but you must do exactly as I say. 

Neo (you) : How do you know all this? 

Us : We don't have time, Neo. To your left there is a window. Go


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## baldmale

Your script sounds waaaaay too polite and forgiving and understanding and in general just too damn nice. There are many men willing to have relationships with married women, and had he known, the outcome may very well have been exactly the same. 

Time to fight. Not enable. You are not his personal therapist, stop sounding like one. F*** him, fight for your wife.


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## Powerbane

Maybe thats why I like you Hurt - thanks for your service to us and the country. I had 6 yrs Air Force. 

Call him - make it short - facts and thats it!

Explain nothing to him - feel no remorse - just get it over with. You're in a fight for your WIFE and KIDS! 

Ok - lets try this -

House is on fire - Slimeball is there, your wife is there - you can only save one. What is your choice??


I think if you can keep her away from the game long enough and she has not memorized that number - you may come out of this intact. 

As far as remorse on her part, it's too early for that. You need to be making those positive changes (not being a doormat yourself) and filling those emotional needs. Don't worry I think you being there with her is going to help her turn the corner. Continue your 180 plan.

Take it from Pit and baldmale - they have experienced far, far worse than your situation (in my opinion) even though I know this is bad too - they have the experience of being where you are. Pit - I think is still fighting. baldmale - I think is making progress (correct me if I'm wrong guys)

I know at some level you might feel some pity for the slimeball - but don't. Fight for your WIFE and your KIDS. Everyone else is just crumbs. Nothing else is worth the fight. NOTHING!

@Pit - nice analogy - HURT - follow the plan we lay for you!!! There is NO TIME!


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## HurtinginTN

Well, you were certainly right about the tip of the iceberg. I have exposed the affair to her family. I told her Saturday night, I am filing for divorce Monday morning. The only way that won't happen is if you end this thing in my presence and have no future contact with that man. If you choose to go with him, rest assured that my children will not go. They will never see that man, let alone be raised by him. She knows I meant it. She is very angry that I told her parents and brother. She is also very angry that I would threaten to take her kids away. I told her that I am not taking them away, she is leaving them. If she wants to put herself at risk with this man, that is her choice. But she WILL NOT put my children at risk. When I mentioned divorce with me getting full custody of the children because of her adultery, I believe that hit home for her. She very well may try to take this underground. She knew she was risking her marriage by this affair anyway. I don't think she thought it through that she was also risking her children. I printed the screen prints of some of her most damaging comments and left it on the kitchen table yesterday. She knows I have proof of her infidelity and the divorce is not an empty threat. I have a whole book from their conversation. I need no further evidence IF I choose to go for a divorce. I will install the keylogger. I check daily the phone records. I check daily the search logs on the computer. She obviously doesn't know how to delete them because I saw some last night. I took a picture of them. They were from before this latest confrontation. 

If you say I shouldn't say those things to that man, I will take your word. There are several reasons for me to doubt his mental capacity.

1. This whole affair took place on a public forum where anyone could see it.

2. Many of his responses Saturday night were just plain wierd. My wife is talking about kissing and he goes to fishing. What's up with that?

3. When she told him it was over, he said that would be his last game of spades and this was going to hurt. He also said, "I understand. It's OK. I'm used to it."

That is the reason I was going to be kind to him. I may still have the wool pulled over my eyes, but I believe he was an innocent victim until very recently. Her actions strongly implied that she was an available woman. Also, there is nothing I could threaten on his end.


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## WhereAmI

HurtinginTN said:


> She is also very angry that I would threaten to take her kids away. I told her that I am not taking them away, she is leaving them. If she wants to put herself at risk with this man, that is her choice. But she WILL NOT put my children at risk.


Can I just say how perfect your response was? She tried to paint you as a controlling man. You had none of it. You're not trying to control her in the least, you're giving her a choice. She has no choice but to take responsibility. Bravo.


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## Powerbane

I'd just leave him alone then. Unfortunately, we cannot save everyone. I know as a Christian and moral, carring human being we all want to not see others in pain or be decieved. 

In this case, you don't have anything to apologize for. There are times in our lifes when sometimes we just have to let some of this stuff go in order to concentrate on what's really important. In the scheme of your life, this guy is not important. Working on yourself and your 180 transformation and being the very, very best Dad and husband you can be is what is important. 

As far as her anger, let her rage. All wayward spouses do this. They are mad they got caught, they are mad because they are not being allowed to continue with bad behavior, they are just mad. Keep her away from this guy and it will probably fade. 

Get her to a counselor and you as well separately first and then get a good pro-marriage counselor for joint sessions.


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## HurtinginTN

Thanks! You mean I have done something right in this whole ordeal? Maybe with the advice from all of you this thing has a chance. I wish I had come to this site months ago.


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## HurtinginTN

OK, the phone call probably wouldn't do any good anyway. I already told him a week ago on Spadester to "Stay away from my wife." He didn't listen then, so why should I expect him to listen if it's over the phone?

Now, she had mentioned Saturday night getting a prepaid phone. I strongly suspect that she still has access to his phone number somewhere, either written or in her mind. She already had a plan to get the prepaid phone to call him secretly. I don't see any way to guard against that. She wouldn't call him in the house so a voice activated recorder wouldn't work. She would go on a walk and call him, as she did the one time. There are many hiding places in the house where she could hide it.

I will install the key logger as soon as I get an hour or so alone in the house. I want at least that much time because I am not a computer guru and it will take me longer than some to install it and get everything set up. 

As far as a polygraph goes, she would certainly be very angry. However, I have the transcripts of her plan to be sneaky on calling him. My question is, "How long should I wait to set up a polygraph?" One month, two, three? One week? I want to nip it in the bud if it is occurring, but I don't want to jump the gun. "Oh, he made me take a polygraph. He believes me now, so I can call my boyfriend." 

I think even if it goes underground, it will fizzle. This very well may be wishful thinking on my part. However, she can no longer spend hours chatting with him each night. Her family knows about it. He is thousands of miles away (don't know the exact distance, but a long way.) She home schools the kids, so even if he made the trip to TN, there would be no availability for a hookup.


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## Powerbane

And - she can't hide a pre-paid forever. 

Make sure you keep your guard up and then periodically check. 

Yes - you did do something right 

You're standing up for yourself and re-setting some important boundaries with your wife. 

If you get stuck on keylogger - well I am a techie!!!


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## Eli-Zor

She will go through a withdrawal and it is highly likely she will contact him again. You have some time to track his details down, do not lose his number. With patience you will find him. Change the pace and stress levels in your house, you know she is going to contact him, be prepared hence the requirement to track the OM down. Buy the "surviving an affair" book by Harley , encourage your wife to read it as must you. It is part of the recovery plan and there are guidelines therein that will help you move forward. 

Load that keylogger ASAP , script says she will/must contact him to relieve her addiction. Understand and know what you must do if you find evidence of new contact. 

As for the polygraph state to her that for the marriage to recover she has X days to tell you everything, mention as part of the verification, honesty and for her to rebuild your trust you will be arranging a polygraph, cut the conversation short disclose no dates, look at her reaction. As you have given her X days to come clean she has ample time to tell you all, ensure you say you will not hold it against her if she tells you the whole truth but will take action if she hides or fails to disclose the whole truth.

She may decline or argue , be firm, calm and strong . Stick to the line "A polygraph will verify you are telling the truth, it will help me learn to trust you again" , if she reacts badly your answer is "you were having an affair" . 

Arrange regular husband and wife time together , 20 hours a week , at first it will be difficult , think of it as dating, she WILL hate it , this is normal , learn and start fulfilling her emotional needs, there is a questionair on the marriage builders site that will help identify her and your EN.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

I have the emotional needs questionnaires printed out, sitting on the desk by the computer she used for her affair. I did that weeks ago, when I first confirmed that there was more to it than games. She has not even looked at them.

The husband and wife time will be difficult. I have asked her out on dates fairly consistently lately. Actually, even Saturday night right before I walked out the door I told her I would rather do something with her. That is what immediately preceded my worst night ever. I did give her a backrub last night. At least she didn't push me away that time. I want to do the 180, but still try to balance meeting her needs. That will be difficult, but I will work very hard on it.

Thanks for all of the input. You guys are awesome for helping people like me in pain. Once I get through this thing, I hope I can return the favor to someone.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Please listen to me.

DO NOT LET YOUR GUARD DOWN, GET THAT KEYLOGGER INSTALLED IMMEDIATELY.

What you are about to see is going to shock you to your core. You are trying to (and for now successfully) stepped in between someone with a VERY BAD addiction and her fix... What you are likely to go through is going to blow your mind. You will not recoginze this person... you have NO IDEA the anger and venom that you are going to go through... when that detox really sets in, this will NOT be the person you know... She will do ANYTHING and I mean anything, to get her fix. This will be very difficult for you but you have to IGNORE it if you want to get through this...

Expect this: bullying, defaming, trivializing, harassing, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, insulting, countering, diverting, lying, berating, taunting, putting down, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling, and raging.

WHen I first seperated my W from her OM, I thought she was mad... really mad... I couldn't imagine how much madder she could have gotten... Well I found out. I couldn't imagine what happened was even possible... 

Buckle up your seatbelt, dig in your heals.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, his number is unlisted. That's good in a way since she wouldn't have been able to find it either. Any suggestions on tracking him down? 

Seatbelt is fastened. Ready for a roller coaster ride. How long did the anger and horrible conditions last for you? Is it any better now?


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## turnera

HurtinginTN said:


> I have the emotional needs questionnaires printed out, sitting on the desk by the computer she used for her affair. I did that weeks ago, when I first confirmed that there was more to it than games. She has not even looked at them.


There was no reason to look at them when HE was meeting most of her needs. And it will be some time before she's gone through withdrawal; don't waste your time on the EN questionnaire.

DO, however, ask her to fill out the Love Buster questionnaire. It will tell you what she was unhappy about. You'll need to do it again in a couple months, after the affair fog has disappeared and she's more like her old self. But for now, ask her to fill it out; it will let her know that you DO place hope on the marriage and you WILL make good on fixing your half of the marriage, just as you expect HER to.



> The husband and wife time will be difficult. I have asked her out on dates fairly consistently lately.


The 20 hours UA time shouldn't be just dates. In fact, it should be OTHER kinds of bonding that make a couple become best friends: planting a garden together; doing a jigsaw puzzle together; walking the dog; visiting a museum; fixing her a cup of coffee and sitting down for a few minutes before you go to work (i.e. treating her like a human and not just a baby machine); going grocery shopping and trying new products together. Stuff like that.

I'd be willing to bet that homeschooling hasn't turned out to be as fulfilling as she expected. ESPECIALLY if she rarely drives and doesn't interact with other adults much. She was a vibrant, exciting, excited young adult once - now she's just a SAHM who never goes anywhere, has no life. OM changed all that - got her thinking about the OTHER life she could have had.

Show her that she can have that with you. For that reason, I'll disagree somewhat with the 180. Yes, take better care of yourself. But don't make it look like now that she's got a scarlet letter, YOU are going to go out and paint the town - without her. 

Show her WHY she chose you.


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## WhereAmI

HurtinginTN said:


> Well, his number is unlisted. That's good in a way since she wouldn't have been able to find it either. Any suggestions on tracking him down?


You have only his first name and the face that he lives in TN? He talked about fishing, right? I don't suppose that licensing information would be public? 

Is his first name common? What does he do for a living?


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## Eli-Zor

Take your time and search the house methodically without giving away the game plan. For the moment assume that she will not and has not ended the affair until you prove otherwise. 

You have two parallel activities : the first is to assume that she has stopped the affair, fulfill her emotional needs and work to recover the marriage. This can only occur, if you work with her, gain her trust and both identify what is missing to make your marriage work. 

The second activity is to assume she has gone underground and will contact the OM in the near future. Try work out where she may make a call from within the house, place the VAR there, it may be a waste of time but it may also quickly deliver a result. Keep your eyes open but do not let this be a full time job , you have to have some breathing space as well. 

Insist on the alone time with her, goes for walks together, this will initially grate her as she will not be feeling very loving towards you. 

When the book arrives use this and the other Marriage Builders principles to help recover your marriage. Be open about it and guide her to that site, do not let her know you are on here, this is your refuge and place for advice. 

Further reading material or help can be found on affaircare.com, take time out and read the articles or call for advice. 

She will notice what you are doing and if over time if this is not working it is likely she is still in the affair or has lost interest in the marriage. Then it is for you to decide what to do. 

Whatever happens, recovery takes time, do not be fooled, be confident, strong and lead the family. 

On a side note how old are your children ? One of the MB principles is to tell the children of the affair, your wife will hate this but is places the affair squarely on the table and helps you and your family recover.

Swap the gender in the extracts below:-





> "Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children"
> 
> Even if you are divorcing tell your children the truth. Don't forewarn your wife, have the script written down, at the last moment say to your wife you are sitting down together and tell your kids.
> 
> Be open and honest, your wife may be unhappy, you need to close this down quickly the children are not stupid. You tell the children because it is better for them to hear it from you than from someone else and you have control over how it is relayed to them, you are there to interact with them afterwards. The children also need reassurance that it is a "parent problem" and the parents are dealing with it. They also need to know they are not the cause as they tend to personalize.
> 
> The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.






> An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
> 
> 
> My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.


Tracking sites:


Free People Search | People Search | Search For People At PeekYou 

Pipl - People Search

People Search | Yellow Pages | White Pages | Reverse Phone Lookup

Free People Search | WhitePages

If you do find a mobile phone look up flexispy and see if you can load it.


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## HurtinginTN

I have what I believe to be his first name and the last initial. His screen name was DavidV33 and changed to davidv34. I assume that is his first name, initial, and age. That is also her understanding from the google searches I originally found. She was searching for David V in Denver. I strongly suspect that he gave her his last name when she called him that one time. She denies it, but I don't believe her. No idea on his occupation. I have his phone number, but it is unlisted. He lives in Denver, we are in TN.


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## Eli-Zor

Have you tried the reverse lookups, it took me 4 weeks of patience checking these sites and facebook before I tracked the OM down. It is very likely he has facebook as may your wife. Load the keylogger, if she has a social networking site get into her account. Remember this is not a fanatical search for him, it is a safe guard that you may/probably will have to exploit. 

Take bite size chunks, ask her questions step back and ask again in a couple of days or weeks time, compare the answers, unless you do a polygraph the truth will trickle out. Bluffing has worked on occasions, atyou have to learn to walk the answers are not going to come easily .

Have you blocked that site via the router or host file.


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## HurtinginTN

I paid $20 for a reverse look up today to find his number is unlisted. I get to check another number. WooHoo! I'd rather have a refund. I hope there are no other boyfriends I need to track down.


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## HurtinginTN

I do have a friend digging a little deeper.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Well, his number is unlisted. That's good in a way since she wouldn't have been able to find it either. Any suggestions on tracking him down?


INSTALL THE KEYLOGGER. You will get as much information as needed. If they stop communicating you dont need to know anything else about him. Right?. 

I'm sorta laughing that I said that...They will try and you will need to be watching. 

Your W is going to try to contact him, and/or vice versa. Emails, instant messengers, facebook, etc... More iceburg. Alot more.



HurtinginTN said:


> How long did the anger and horrible conditions last for you? Is it any better now?


Which time? Detox 1 ? Detox 2 ? Detox 3 ?

and no, it's not "better". But, I'm coping.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, day one of the 180 didn't go well. I made the mistake last night of asking one question. That set off another argument. Ugh! 

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

I failed on these notes. This 180 thing isn't as easy as it may sound. She thinks I am holding the transcripts over her head. If she doesn't do everything I want, I'll run to the divorce attorney and attempt to take her kids. I should have never mentioned that I have the transcripts. "Keep a clear head, stop talking, you are telling your wife far to much." Very true. 

I did spend time with her, at least in the same room as her. She cooked a wonderful supper and we ate together as a family. That has been a very rare occurrence for quite a long time. She would usually go up and play the computer when I got home. She does homeschool the kids, so I always thought I was being thoughtful for "taking over" when I got home at night.

We did the dishes together and shared a couple of cigarettes together. I gave her a back rub while she played a game (not Spades) on the computer. Then, I asked one question that led to another argument. My wounds are too deep and fresh to discuss anything about this issue. That is the power of the 180. She needs some space and I do as well. I will try to continue spending time with her, improving myself, searching for him on the sly, watching the records, etc., but the thing I need to do is not to discuss this at all for now.

Well, again, thanks for all of the advice. I am trying to implement it. Thank you for giving me a path and hope that this marriage can be fixed.

I do have the book, Surviving an Affair. It has been sitting on a shelf for all these months. We have tons of books that we buy at garage sales. She had bought this years ago for a friend of hers and never got around to sending it. I can't believe I didn't pick it up months ago. I guess I was looking in the wrong place. There wasn't enough room up my arse for my head and this book too.


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## Eli-Zor

You learn by your mistakes. Block the game site the OM and her shared, you can survived her anger your marriage cannot survive an OM, if she says you are controlling babble back, say ---"yes you are, you never gave it a second thought to have an affair and destroy our family." if she argues back walk away as per the 180.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

keylogger in place ?


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## Eli-Zor

Hurtin: you must load that keylogger, in a high percentage of the affairs I have helped break the WS has sent a NC mail or text / message with the BS observing. A keylogger or discovery of a second mobile phone has subsequently confirmed ongoing contact and the "break" up of the affair was a ruse to throw the BS off. Have no doubt of the value to you verifying the affair has actualy ended, you learn the truth be it good or bad. This is for your own sanity, your marriage can only recover if the OM is completely out of the picture. I am not comfortable you have not been able to track the OM down, plug away one day at a time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Okie

I mainly lurk on occasion but feel the need to jump in here. Install the keylogger NOW. My wife's EA would have never been busted with out it. It moved through several layers further and further underground until the Keylogger was the only way I would have found it.


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## HurtinginTN

The keylogger is not in place. She stays at home so I have had no opportunity to set it up. I know, I know. You more computer system literate folks could do it in 5 minutes. However, I don't want to be in the middle of installing it and her walk in. It would take me longer than it would most of you. I can't practice on my work computer because I don't have access. 

However, Spadester is no longer available. He told her when she told him it was over that would be his last game of spades. They have been foolish enough to have this entire affair over Spadester. Her doormat husband was easy enough to take care of. It's free (no phone bills), convenient, and (so they thought) hidden. Why come up with an alternate plan? They were close to an alternate plan. He told her Saturday night that he hates spades. He only plays to talk to her. I saw all of the chat and they very obviously thought no one was watching. IF there was some other form of communication, they would have discussed it then. The only time she was on with him was the time I was home in the evenings. She may very well have his cell phone number still. She may even have his last name. IF he didn't give it to her, I don't think she will be able to find it. I have tried many avenues and been unsuccessful so far. 

At one time, I thought I had found him. But I believe I was mistaken. A phone call to him may confirm whether that name was right or not. It was a hispanic man that I found. Maybe it was right. Maybe that is why he types so slow. Maybe his English isn't good. Perhaps I will call him to see if this theory holds water.

Either way, the one thing in my favor is the distance between them. Logistically, it would be very difficult for a meeting. I will load the keylogger at my earliest time alone in the house. I will remain vigilant in watching for another phone to show up. I will work harder on the 180 as well.


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## turnera

For the keylogger, all you have to do is open Internet explorer from her computer, go to the keylogger's company website, pay, and hit 'download.' Once it's downloaded in a minute or so, you can go to 'settings' and include your email address for the data to be emailed to you, and include the frequency you want it mailed to you. 

Pick your keylogger ahead of time, write down the URL, and when you see her gone for 10 minutes, go online. 

That's all there is to it.


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## HurtinginTN

It looked like there were a lot of things to set up. So, just pay for it (30 seconds), download it (High speed internet, what is the timeframe for download?), put in the email address to send the info to, and the frequency. 

What if she happens to come in during the middle? That would not be good. She has to be out of the house to ensure that doesn't happen. "Why are you in there with the door locked?" Right now, I don't really trust her. However, she doesn't trust me at all either.


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## turnera

So what if she doesn't trust you? Keyloggers are invisible anyway. Once you install it, she can't tell.

Call the one you pick, from your office, and ask them if you can set up the info beforehand, and then go to the computer with your pre-set up password and just download it.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

If you don't install that fu*king keylogger, Im going to be a mushroom cloud laying motherf*cker in your thread motherf*cker!!!.










Keylogger!!!!!!!!!! 

LOL.


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## WhereAmI

HurtinginTN said:


> It looked like there were a lot of things to set up. So, just pay for it (30 seconds), download it (High speed internet, what is the timeframe for download?), put in the email address to send the info to, and the frequency.
> 
> What if she happens to come in during the middle? That would not be good. She has to be out of the house to ensure that doesn't happen. "Why are you in there with the door locked?" Right now, I don't really trust her. However, she doesn't trust me at all either.


"Leave me to my porn, woman!" 

Really, if she asks what you're doing in the room with the door locked just tell her it's personal. You don't owe her a thing! 

Be sure to clear the history after you install.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, a couple of observations. I believe the 180 has power because if they are doing "good", it is easy to be nice. If you were mean and angry when they were being "bad", they will think that your niceness is just because you "got your way." She has been going through the actions of an incredibly wife and mother the past couple of nights. If I was giving her gifts, I love you's, etc. she would take it as conditional love. If you do bad, I treat you bad. If you do good, I treat you good. You must do things my way if you want to be treated good.

Now, that is not the proper way to take it. However, the WS isn't thinking clearly or they wouldn't be in the affair to start with. Last night, I did better on the 180. Not much talking at all, just being in the same room. She went to a counsellor yesterday. I wanted very much to ask her about the session. However, I restrained myself and just asked her if she liked the counsellor. No talk of the affair, etc.

Feelings follow actions. Her actions of spending so much time with him led to her feelings for him. Eventually, spending more time with me and the kids will lead to more feelings for us. Don't worry, I will remain vigilant in watching for further contact. I do have a couple of new leads in finding the other man. I have been researching the keyloggers. 

Again, thank you all for all of your support and advice. Without your help, my marriage would certainly not have survived. It's still on very shaky ground, but at least there is some hope.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Don't worry, I will remain vigilant in watching for further contact. I do have a couple of new leads in finding the other man. I have been researching the keyloggers.


Ok, keep researching. No hurry. You got this. ;-) 

“The saddest summary of life contains three descriptions: could have, might have, and should have.” ~Unknown 

Just a random thought...

Maybe less focus chasing the "big bad wolf", More focus on protecting the "straw house" ?.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, thank you all for your support during this extremely hurtful time. While your advice is probably right for most, I am choosing to trust my wife implicitly. I can not force her to end this thing. She has said it is over and I choose to believe her. I will not go with the keylogger. I will not continue to try tracking him down. For my sanity, I choose to let this thing go. The past is the past. I know this will not make anyone here happy, but I am not married to anyone here. I am married to the woman that cried and looked me in the eye and said it was over. Please respect my leap of faith in this matter.


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## turnera

Wow. If I had a dollar for every betrayed husband who has said that (and later been proven wrong), I'd be rich. What is it about men who become afraid to protect their marriage? Are they afraid of the women going kamikaze on them?

Is she _at least_ giving you her passwords to her phone and computer?


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## baldmale

Why would you trust your wife implicitly now? Because of the things she _says_ now? Talk is cheap. What you need are _actions_ that will slowly build back trust over a long period of time. 

This leap of faith you are taking will end with you splatting on the ground....painfully. The past is only the past when you have protected yourself to a degree that it doesn't repeat.

Offering implicit trust is begging the past to be your present and future.

WAKE UP!


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## HurtinginTN

OK. Sorry for the camouflage. She had said something that led me to believe either she or he had found this site and was reading my posts. I needed her to believe I was the doormat still. 

She did sneak out and buy a prepaid phone. I caught her with it when she got home. She didn't give it to me, and I didn't physically force her to (which is what it would have taken that night.) She made an offer the next day. She would let me see the phone IF I let her play spades with him. I made sure I was very clear it would be for one night. I got the phone and made an online tracking so I can check the phone calls.

There have been no more calls on that phone. However, the "just one night" turned into every night since. Tonight, I played the camouflage trick again. I am watching her chat, with a little help from a friend. She has changed her screen name again because people know what's going on. Her chat tonight indicated that she did not know about this.

The reasoning for letting her play with him is difficult to explain. Let's just say there was a good reason. She said it would "just be friends" like it was in the beginning. Again, tonight's chat blows that out of the water.

OK, keylogger will be in place. I have been working to 2 pronged approach. Everything is OK and trying plan A. Keeping up surveillance in the background. Obviously, she has no clue she is being watched tonight. Suggestions? Especially you Eli-Zor. 

She has agreed to a date tomorrow night. Sunday is our daughter's birthday party. My plan for now is to go on the date. While she is getting her bath tomorrow, I will install the keylogger. It hasn't been done yet because I thought they may have already installed one. Paranoid, I guess. We'll go on our date and to our daughter's birthday party on Sunday. 

Part of me wants to confront her right now about this new evidence. Eli-Zor, one part of your advice was to shut up, that I'm telling my wife too much. Do I just hold this Ace up my sleeve for now? My friend will walk me through a way to block Spadester without it being obvious to her that I did it.

Exposure looks like it is a necessary step. I told her father and brother, but she convinced them it was over. Perhaps I should take them tonights transcripts.

Again, sorry if my camouflage caused anyone on here to not listen to the excellent advice offered on this site.


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## twotimeloser

It is easier to trust those whom we have an adversarial relationship with, than it is to trust those whom we are aligned with. 

We can trust that our adversaries will always wrong us, in every action they take, but with our allies... they become adversaries at their convenience, usually at our expense.

If that thought can reside in your mind, then you can diversify your trust portfolio accordingly. 

Just a thought.


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## Eli-Zor

This is from a mobile so I may repeat some items.

Firstly I will give you a 2x4 ( a telling off) 

I am staggered you agreed to her playing the game, why don't you hire a room for her for the night and buy him a condom to use, that decision Sir is enabling the affair. In one of you previous posts you said he would not play spades again, yet he was on the system, your wife was on and they made contact again, she has his details and called him, have no doubt. 

This is the hard part, create a plan and follow it:-

You rescind your agreement - never negotiate with an adulterer, tell her "no more spades, no more contact with him ever" she whines you say she has restarted the affair, do not say you have the evidence, If she challenges you keep to the script , " I will not tolerate you conducting an adulterous affair" move off the conversation, block the site , no debate , use the keylogger to track her activities. 

Make every effort to find this guy, it will take time, you need his name , start by placing a VAR in her car. You mentioned previously you have his number, call it give him hell, no threats ,words like he is intentionally committing adultery with your wife and working to destroy your family , you will protect your wife and children from him, let him know if he does not cease all contact with your wife there will be massive repercussions on him. You will leave no stone unturned to make his life, be it at work or at home very uncomfortable. Do not enter into a debate, keep control of the conversation be firm hard worded. 


Call her parents and siblings again and let them know of the affair, provide some evidence but not all. Let them know if the affair does not cease that it will break up your family and you are asking them to help you save your marriage. 

Let a few of her good friends know she is in an affair and you have hard evidence, what you are looking for is their support to protect your marriage.

Keep records of her chat conversations in a secure place.


Check her Facebook account and ensure you have all the details of her friends secured in word or something similar, you need the links to the friends pages as well , I am very certain he is either listed there or she has another way of chatting to him. Experience says you will have to expose the affair over facebook or another social networking site she and the OM may be registered on. 

Be prepared for her to move out, this is going to be tough do not blink, the children stay with you , she moves out not you. 

As you home school , change that : register the children and send them to school, if she asks why you say you say you are protecting your family from an adulterous wife, no further debate. What you are doing is preparing a plan for a long fight to save your marriage.

Do not waver and do not think your wife loves you, at this stage she does not this is her evil twin and she is manipulating you. You do not play nice with your wife, she is not playing nice with you. Show her love at the same time intolerance of her adulterous behavior. Use these words "adulterous affair" in conversations, the word affair on its own dilutes the meaning. 

Do not agree to anything your wife proposes, she will threaten to leave , say "pack your bags now". Secure your finances in the event she goes away, if she stays she has what is required to live on.

How old are your children? Have you told them that mommy is cheating with another man. ? Depending how deep your wife is in the fog, your children will be the single reason why she will want to stay in the marriage and not leave home. 

The way you view this is your wife no longer married to you, she will threaten divorce, she will gaslight you to friends and family, she will contact the OM . The counter for you is to have zero tolerance, inform her family and friends , keep the children ,thus the school. This plan is for the long haul , unless your wife changes soon you have a tough road ahead of you.

To help prepare buy the book "surviving an affair" by W Harley. I do need to council you that many will give you contrary advice, much of this will appeal to you as you will be emotionally down and afraid to lose your wife. The book , others , the affaircare.com articles, marriagebuilders.com articles and myself will guide you. The process I am proposing you follow is the marriagebuilders one. 

The tension and stress in your household is going to climb , keep a clear mind, eat well, walk, run, be consistent, I will post the "180" for you to follow. 

A lot of the above may seem as controlling behaviour, it is not untill she is out of the affair fully engaged in the marriage , has in place extraordinary precautions that affair proof the marriage then the steps above are a start of what needs to be done to break the affair before you start rebuilding your marriage .

BTW: if you do not have a keylogger, try eblaster it allows you to have her chats and so forth mailed to you, she will not be aware of the background activity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

I posted this to you earlier..



> Do not believe the affair is over
> 
> Find his number and track his name and address down, your wife absolutely knows more than she is letting on, she is protecting the OM, WS often protect the OM until all the truth is forced out.
> 
> Keep a clear head, stop talking, you are telling your wife far to much.
> 
> Block the site either by entering a dummy address against the link in the host file or block it on your router .
> 
> Assume she and he are going to go underground.
> 
> Do not negotiate the terms to save your marriage .
> 
> No contact for life
> 
> Full acknowledgement of the affair and all details should you choose
> 
> Full transparency going forward, no games or Internet .
> 
> Commitment to rebuild the marriage.


Non of the terms above has been met, you started by making a mistake with this one.


> Do not negotiate the terms to save your marriage .


however it is early days, she will follow a script.


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## Eli-Zor

The 180 

A nicely summarized version below by 827Aug



> 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
> implore.
> 2. No frequent phone calls.
> 3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
> 4. Do not follow her around the house.
> 5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
> 6. Do not ask for help from family members.
> 7. Do not ask for reassurances.
> 8. Do not buy gifts.
> 9. Do not schedule dates together.
> 10. Do not spy on spouse.
> 11. Do not say "I Love You".
> 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
> 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
> 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
> 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
> 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
> 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
> 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
> 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
> 20. All questions about marriage should be put on
> hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
> 21. Never lose your cool.
> 22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
> 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
> 24. Be patient
> 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
> 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
> 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
> 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
> 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
> CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
> 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
> 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
> 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
> 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
> 34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.



the more "wordy" version is in my post under the following link

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/22617-just-dealing.html#post268957

This in conjunction with Plan A strengthens you.

Stay strong and keep focused the prize is the love of your wife, your family and future.


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## HurtinginTN

Eli-zor, Thanks for your response. It is complicated on the reason to agree to one night of spades. That was the agreement and then she continued it. I do have his information. Neither have Facebook, at least as far as I can tell. She has called him twice, at least. 

Her plan for today is to play with him from 11:00 to 3:00 Central time. They are using wtff (him) and shygrl (her). They changed to these names yesterday since I was going to be out of town. They are planning on changing back to older names tomorrow so they don't blow their cover. They fully believe the new names have thrown everyone off track.

She told him she has to leave at 3:00. I am supposed to be home at 5:00 and we're going on a date tonight. Tomorrow, we are having a birthday party for our daughter. I will play along for tonight and tomorrow. I will show her what she will be missing by leaving. I expect her to get on Spadester tomorrow night. That is when I'll pull the plug. I was planning on putting last night's transcript in front of her. After reading your post, I suppose I shouldn't do that. Perhaps I could just put a page or two in front of her. Either way, Spadester will be blocked tomorrow. They will go underground, as they have already tried with buying the prepaid phone. I don't have much confidence at this point that this marriage will survive.


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## Eli-Zor

Stay on course, if you have his details try locate his family, parents and siblings even his place of work. She will go underground, it is not for you to take stress if she does not cease the affair after you confront her the second time, pack her bags. You will find this emotionally draining you must move the stress to her and the OM and make her life very uncomfortable. A first step to her moving out is she goes to her parents home. Be firm, no shouting, do not allow her to force your hand or dictate the pace.

When you present evidence do not let her make out it is something else, ensure she knows the consequences and she will be wholly responsible for the family breakup, you will be fighting for full custody even if you get a fifty fifty split she must know she will have to face reality where all will know of her infidelity and it's impact on the family. 

Does your state allow her to be divorced on grounds of adultery? I am thinking ahead to some of the consequences she must face.

Do not weaken it is easy to give in , divorce will be a lot more painful . Think of the end game and a long term relationship with your wife and family.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

That is what I'm trying to focus on. My goal is to produce a happy, blissful marriage to my current wife. I have told her this. Right now, I don't like her very much. I have reiterated that our marriage is the best example for our children. How our marriage works out is likely to become how their marriage will work out. Not only would reconciliation be best for them in the short run, it will affect the lives of our children for decades.

I have come to learn that most people have no good basis for how a marriage is supposed to be. My parents and her parents have been together for over 40 years. However, their relationships leave much to be desired. Longevity isn't the sign of a good marriage. My 13 year marriage (one month from today) sure isn't healthy. 

Our children are 7 (son) and our daughters are 9 and 10. I believe I will sit them down tomorrow night after I tell her no more contact with him and tell them what is going on. I'll give her a 5 minute warning and invite her to join the conversation. I'm sure that won't go over well.


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## Eli-Zor

You are on the right track.

Do not water down the words when you speak to your children, say their mother is cheating & committing adultery with another man and name him. 

You are there for them to answer their questions and support them, they are not stupid they know something is wrong.

Hang in there you will need every ounce of strength you can muster and do not listen to her lies, she may choose to say things about you that are wholly untrue , keep firm and consistent.


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## turnera

When you confront her, and she refuses to stop, your next step is to expose the affair to her family and his family.


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## paramore

I still go back and forth on the exposing, my husband didn't agree with how I chose to tell our kids why I kicked daddy out, (that was just a week ago, he's home now, and so far no evidence of contact), I do believe he is being honest....but anyways....the eldest purposely eavesdropped on me, so I had no choice to tell her the current situation, she doesn't know the knitty gritty...I do believe that some content is necessary to help our girls know what is going on. I have made it quite clear that we are BOTH at fault by the way.


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## turnera

How can kids learn not to cheat if you don't tell them it's wrong? Especially if cheating is breaking up their family.


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## paramore

This is so true Turnera. How are things going in your neck of the woods Hurting?


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## HurtinginTN

Not too good, paramore. This weekend went pretty much as expected. I went to my parents' Friday night. I watched her chat with him until about 1:30 in the morning. She set it up with him to chat again from 11:00 to 3:30 on Saturday. I got some of that before I had to take the kids to a skating party. My niece took over and copied the rest of the transcripts. I haven't seen all of that yet. I hope for my niece's sake it didn't get too ugly. 

She had to get off the game at 3:30 so she could get ready for our date. It started fairly well. We went to see a movie. However, when we got home, she got on Spadester. I yanked the power cord to the modem and gave her the letter I had prepared for Sunday evening. I expected her to get on then, instead of Saturday night after our "date". She went out and called him again. 

I have the transcripts and the phone records. I told her last night she has 5 minutes and I'm telling the kids about her affair. I sat them down on the couch to tell them. She said, "What you are doing is foolish." I said, "No. What you are doing is foolish." I just told the kids that we both love them very much. 

I told my wife after that, "No contact for life with that man. If there is any contact, the kids get the whole story. If this adulterous affair (Thanks Eli-zor for this wording. She hates it!) is so wonderful that you absolutely must continue it, then you should want to shout it from the rooftop." 

The modem is hidden currently. I am debating over whether to just cancel the internet or go with a keylogger. I have the sole access to her cell phone online records. 

This man threatened to hit a man in the head with a hammer at work because the man touched him. "I don't like to be touched." Even after he told her that, she continued her chat with him. I am considering going to the police to file a restraining order against him. He is apparently a violent man and I don't want him anywhere near my family. He has no criminal history, at least my $70 investment didn't find any. However, his chat about hitting a man in the head with a hammer seems to me like I should be able to get a restraining order to protect my family. Is that an option?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> seems to me like I should be able to get a restraining order to protect my family. Is that an option?


No. It's not. Generally, a restraining order is issued as protection against repeat violence. In some cases you can be granted a restraining order if direct documented threats have been made against you. But, not always & that isn't easy to get. (I know first hand).

How did the exposure to her father work ?


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## HurtinginTN

Of course, she hated it. I told him the day after I witnessed the chat. I told him she ends it that day or we are finished. That is the day she got on and told him it was over. I told him that night that she had ended it. I have not yet disclosed to him that she only went 2 days without contact. 

She did call her brother and talk to him a while yesterday. Of course, I could only hear her side of the conversation. It was clear that he was telling her that it wasn't all me. Of course, she was making me out to be a monster. He wasn't having it and apparently was telling her she was in the wrong. 

Spadester is gone. For now, the internet is gone. I'll decide whether to keep it or not as time goes by. The venom spewed last night was indeed horrible. She does not want the kids to know. She also knows that I will tell them if she contacts him again. Maybe I will anyway. 

She had something she was holding over my head. That threat has been dealt with. She can no longer hold it over my head. One day at a time. I'll ignore the venom for a while and see how it goes.


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## paramore

Good for you man, keep on keepin on. Unfortunately, time is the only thing you have right now. Keep taking things day by day, I know it's HARD. Take care of yourself. I am just trying to do things day by day, as I am not a very patient person, (another thing I need to work on myself for lol), you are finally taking charge, and she doesn't like it.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> I watched her chat with him until about 1:30 in the morning. She set it up with him to chat again from 11:00 to 3:30 on Saturday.


Dude... Why are you doing that? Actually I think I know the answer... 



HurtinginTN said:


> I yanked the power cord to the modem and gave her the letter I had prepared for Sunday evening.


Angry outbursts will solidify you as the bad guy and push her to him. Any efforts you make (Plan "A") are instantly and totally erased from memory and replaced by more justification in her head WHY she is "in love" with him and why this is all your fault... 



HurtinginTN said:


> I told her last night she has 5 minutes and I'm telling the kids about her affair. I sat them down on the couch to tell them. She said, "What you are doing is foolish." I said, "No. What you are doing is foolish." I just told the kids that we both love them very much.


Threats don't work. Particularly with you, your wife owns you. She knows it. She does not respect you and doesn't think you will follow through. 



HurtinginTN said:


> I told my wife after that, "No contact for life with that man. If there is any contact, the kids get the whole story.


More threats.


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## paramore

Yeah, you gotta follow through for sure, I know it's easy to go back and forth. I've been there man, I see you are gathering evidence, that's good. I think I misread up above, I thought you had told the kids what was going on.


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## HurtinginTN

Evidence. I wasn't only watching, I was copying and saving. I have serious doubts that this will work out. For now, I will put up with the venom since everyone says it is an addiction. Maybe I should have gone ahead and told the kids last night. She knows that wasn't a threat. I fully expect her to contact him in the next day or two. 

She did own me. I had to let her think that a little longer to get some stuff taken care of. That is over and done. No more blackmail. Nothing she can hang over my head. I have a large scratch on my face from where she attacked me this weekend. I took a picture this time. I also made a point to show my brother-in-law at my daughter's birthday party and gave him the story. He went through an affair with his first wife.

The ducks are in a row for the stick. Yes, the angry outbursts have to stop in order to present a carrot. I was prepared for her to get back on Sunday. I was totally thrown off guard that she would have the nerve to get on there Saturday night after our "date". Since then, I have handled the venom without angry outbursts.


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## turnera

What are you doing to fix YOUR half of the marriage, so she has a _reason _to choose you?


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## HurtinginTN

Good question. Last week, I went against the 180 and sent her some flowers. She acted like she really appreciated them. However, she kept getting back on with the boyfriend. Since the kids and I were leaving Friday, we wrote notes on heart-shaped post it notes and placed them all around the house. I made sure to put one on the wine bottle (She drinks a glass or two of wine as she plays Spades) and on the computer screen. I had been leaving her notes every morning before I left for work (She is usually still sleeping when I leave.) thanking her for taking care of the children. I had been working hard to tell her what I appreciate about her. I have printed out the emotional needs questionnaires, but she hasn't looked at them (I'm sure she won't any time soon). I have started working out. 

After this weekend, my desire to become a better man has been completely drained. Right now, she hates me. I am taking away her crack pipe. I don't see much I can do at this point except the 180. That and ignore the venomous babble coming out of her mouth. She says I am controlling. I bought and am listening to an 8 CD series on control issues. Personally, she is much more controlling than I am. However, there is wisdom to be gleaned from those CD's. I bought a marriage game from marriage builders. She won't play that for a while, I'm sure. I am reading "Surviving and Affair." I am trying to take one day at a time.


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## paramore

I just read that book too, it's a great read, I have been leaving it around the house hoping he'll pick it up, I doubt he ever will. You know Saturday morning, I was having one of those back and forth days and was completely drained too. I took a 2 hour nap and woke up with a new attitude. Take some time for yourself man, to recharge.


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## Eli-Zor

Thanks for the update. An observation, do not do things in half measures, if you have a task do it fully and complete it. 

Continue to refer to the affair using strong words , words and phrases phrases such as :- 

Adulterous affair 
You are using my love for you to fuel your emotional and sexual fantasy for another man. 
You are intentionally and purposefully destroying our love, marriage and family
Privacy is for the bathroom, secrecy is deceit.
There is no room for a third person in a marriage , your adulterous affair parter is a predator and is exploiting you to satisfy his own carnal needs without care or thought for you, our children or me. 


A couple of do and don'ts summarized from the 180 



> Do's
> 1. Act Happy
> 2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
> 3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
> 4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
> 5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
> 6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
> 7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
> 8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
> 9. Accept Uncertainty , Do your best today and let tomorrow take care of tomorrow
> 
> Don'ts
> 
> 1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
> 2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
> 3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
> 4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
> 5. Argue, Reason or Plead
> 6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
> 7. Act helpless or depressed
> 8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
> 9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
> 10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
> 11. GIVE UP


Your wife will follow the affair scripts, be prepared to draw a line and decide how much you are prepared to tolerate.

She will continue the affair
She will spit venom 
She will not accept she is in an affair 
She will hate you and gaslight you

How do you deal with this:-

You sit with her and set the boundaries. Use some of the phrases and words given above. Be consistent when using them. Try not to use them as love buster but as mere fact. 

She must fully commit willingly to rebuild the marriage, the consequence you keep to your self at this stage is she moves out. (Prepare a plan for this, the affair script says this is going to happen) 

You request a further handwritten no contact letter, if she writes this you copy it and send a copy to her family 

A sample can be found below

Sample No Contact Letters

She may decline and continue to the affair, if she contacts him make a decision as to when and move her to your BIL house. The children stay with you. You must have a plan what to do with the children, do not dilute the plan. Tell the children the truth no matter how hard it is for you, do not use it as a threat over her head. 

have you told some of her good friends. if not do so before she tells them another story . 


Track the OM's friends and family down, we need to rock his boat, make this affair unpleasant for him and not worth his while.


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## turnera

Regarding the love notes and such...is that something she previously enjoyed? If not, you're spinning wheels. When I speak of your half, I'm referring to whatever Love Busters YOU may have been engaging in before her affair. Common ones would be taking her for granted, not engaging in conversations with her, treating her like your maid or mother, not providing financial or emotional stability...skip the EN questionnaire for now and focus on the Love Buster one. If she won't fill it out, try to fill it out for her, things she's said to you in the past that make her unhappy. Focus on eliminating your LBs. Whether or not you end up with her, you need to do that for YOU.

Are you prepared to expose the affair if she contacts him again?


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## HurtinginTN

Absolutely! I told her sister's husband yesterday. I'm sure he told her on their way home. I do expect her to contact him. Those are some things she enjoyed. I haven't sent her roses in years. I did in the beginning. She is so picky on the roses, though, she was never satisfied. "They're not very fresh" etc. I have grown roses, but I haven't kept them up in the past few years. I'll work on the flower bed next weekend.


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## HurtinginTN

Exposure on his end has started. I called his father's phone number and a lady answered. He has said several things about his family and I don't know what to believe. I didn't ask her relationship. She is either his mother or step-mother. I do know he went there to visit for a week about a month or so ago, so there is a relationship. He had told them he was playing spades with someone. She said she didn't think he knew she was married. I told her I don't know when he found out she was married, but he has known for at least a month. 

We had a pleasant conversation and she said that she doesn't want to see a marriage broken up. She is going to call him this evening and also talk to her husband.


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## HurtinginTN

6. Expand your social relationships (*Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum*)

Yes, I am extremely vulnerable right now. That may be as hard of a challenge as ending her affair. With the hurt and pain my wife has caused and continues to cause, a little attention from a lovely lady this weekend has me wanting to see her again. I only saw her for 5 minutes as I was purchasing something from her place of employment. Thank goodness it was out of town and not a place I frequent. I can't imagine the temptation if a loyal spouse worked with someone they were attracted to during the venom spitting phase. At least I hope it is a phase. If not, I can always go shopping again. lol


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## Eli-Zor

> Exposure on his end has started. I called his father's phone number and a lady answered. He has said several things about his family and I don't know what to believe. I didn't ask her relationship. She is either his mother or step-mother. I do know he went there to visit for a week about a month or so ago, so there is a relationship. He had told them he was playing spades with someone. She said she didn't think he knew she was married. I told her I don't know when he found out she was married, but he has known for at least a month.
> 
> We had a pleasant conversation and she said that she doesn't want to see a marriage broken up. She is going to call him this evening and also talk to her husband.


Splendid .

Hopefully they do something however I do not expect much from his family traditionally parents support their children and believe their lies. If your wife ever shows her face near them they will know he was lying or if you were to track his network site and expose it there then they will be forced to accept the truth . I am pushing the social network site as it is highly likely he is on one somewhere.


Keep focused this is the lull before the storm,one step at a time. Formulate your plan and expect the worst at all times so there are no surprises.

Carry on Plan A'ing her in combination with the 180, loving does not mean being a doormat.

Do you have to scope to go to Walmart and buy a VAR they go for around $79, place it in her car and wait. You snoop until there is certainty she has stopped the affair and is committed to the marriage.

Another book alongside "surviving an affair" is the "his needs her needs" By Harley. These two books are on Amazon and will help you understand what emotional needs your wife may want fulfilled . Read these, what you are doing is attacking the affair on all sides and undermining any reason she may have for conducting the affair.


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## HurtinginTN

OK, I read the love busters on Marriage builders. They seem to contradict my current actions. How do I reconcile the two? I have pulled the modem from the home. Therefore, there is no internet service for her to be spending time with him. 

Now, the love busters mention selfish demands. While I don't believe denying internet access is a selfish demand, she certainly does. She even threatened to call the police last night because it was her house and computer, too. I laughed and said go ahead. Internet access isn't a right required by law.

"Neither of you is a sergeant and neither of you is a private. You do not have the right to tell each other what to do, and if you try, you will find that it doesn't work. If you try to force your spouse to meet your needs, it becomes a temporary solution at best, and resentment is sure to rear it's ugly head. Demands and other forms of manipulation do not build compatibility; they build resentment." quote from Marriage Builders. 

Disrespectful judgements - Is she being extremely disrespectful by carrying out this affair? A resounding yes, as far as I'm concerned. However, how is my judgment of her actions different from this section?

"A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield."

Of course, this one is self-explanatory. I have had several angry outbursts over this affair. However, she considers the telling of the family as "punishment" and "vindictiveness."

"But in the end, we have nothing to gain from anger. Punishment does not solve marital problems; it only makes your punished spouse want to inflict punishment on you, or if that doesn't work, leave you. When you become angry with your spouse, you threaten your spouse's safety and security -- you fail to provide protection. Your spouse rises to the challenge and tries to destroy you in retaliation. When anger wins, love loses."

I don't think cutting off the internet to prevent easy access to her internet lover is controlling. She thinks it is extremely controlling. I understand that it is like an addiction. I do believe that she is in a DEEEEEEEEEEEP fog. I am guessing that the love busters are great guidelines in a normal relationship. The affair is a trump card and the ending of the affair takes precedence over everything else. However, I am supposed to avoid love busters. The cutting of the internet fits "selfish demands" and "disrespectful judgements" in her mind. Any thoughts?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> The affair is a trump card and the ending of the affair takes precedence over everything else. However, I am supposed to avoid love busters. The cutting of the internet fits "selfish demands" and "disrespectful judgements" in her mind. Any thoughts?


It is the trump card to end all trump cards. 

The bigger trump is that your wife is an addict.

Everything she says and everything she does will be in an effort to manipulate you. 

Do not get into arguements with her, her addiction sounds like it's on par with my W's addiction... The reason I have taken an interest specifically in your situation is that some of the things you posted that your wife was saying were almost exactly in the same "spirit" as the things my wife was saying... 

TN, I have been aggressively trying to get you to listen because I know first hand and I can't tell you the shock and depth of "OMG WTF!?" I have gone through and seen with my W an her addiction/affair... I've read everything that you have said, and your wife sounds like she has the exact same level of addiction... You have no idea. Really. This is going to get crazy, like crazy you can't fathom right now. If your not prepared for this and you can't view it with some healthy detachment _you may not recover_ from what your about to see.

Please try to remember this IS NOT your wife. She is a crack head, a herion junky, whatever... She is essentially possesed. Do not listen to her. Rather, do not allow anything she says to dictate what type of action you take. Stay the course. She will pull out every card. She needs to satisfy this addiction. It will drive her to lie to anyone and everyone, decieve, she will try bullying, defaming, trivializing, harassing, interrogating, accusing, blaming, blocking, insulting, countering, diverting, lying, berating, taunting, putting down, discounting, threatening, name-calling, yelling, and raging.


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## HurtinginTN

I just tried to check her cell phone online. Somehow, she has changed the password and pin number. She hasn't had access to the internet, so it must have been her boyfriend. She didn't have the password, so I'm not sure how she did it. But the fact is, the password has been changed. That shows further contact and further cover-up, in my opinion.


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## turnera

You can fight for your marriage while still being a great husband. Try to remember that fighting the affair is in an area all its own - it does NOT correspond to how you should act as a husband. Vow to never raise your voice again, not to take the 'bait' when she rails at you, to speak to her logically, to show her what you are willing to accept in a marriage, to let her know that she is free to move out and divorce you (as she always has been, and as are YOU) but as long as you ARE married you will expect a certain level of commitment from your wife and that means no other men.

The reason it's called a script is all waywards say the same thing, act the same way, treat you the same - it's an addiction, plain and siimple. You wouldn't try to logic a heroin addict into stopping, would you?

When she spouts off at you, just smile and offer her a cookie. It'll drive her crazy, and it makes as much sense as trying to logic with her.


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## turnera

Then pack her bags. Move them to the porch. Tell her that as long as she's in contact with him, she's not welcome. She NEEDS you to act swiftly and decisively on this.

She has to choose.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> She hasn't had access to the internet, so it must have been her boyfriend. She didn't have the password, so I'm not sure how she did it. But the fact is, the password has been changed. That shows further contact and further cover-up, in my opinion.


Does she have access to money? a car?

If she has access to money, she has access to the internet.

you are grossly underestimating this addiction and your wife's motivation to continue it.

you think taking away her modem will stop her? lol.


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## Grayson

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Does she have access to money? a car?
> 
> If she has access to money, she has access to the internet.
> 
> you are grossly underestimating this addiction and your wife's motivation to continue it.
> 
> you think taking away her modem will stop her? lol.


Indeed.

Assuming the computer in question is a laptop, all she needs is a Starbuck's or McDonald's or another such establishment and - BAM - free wi-fi.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

No, taking away the modem just stops the nightly hours playing spades. We only have 1 car and she home schools the kids. She doesn't have access to the internet currently since the modem is at work with me. With the 20+ hours per week together of having fun gone, the pressure from both families (at least that is what his family told me. Who knows what they told him), and the distance between TN and CO, those things combined will make it more difficult. Possibly, it will make it not worth the effort. He can't accept phone calls at work (according the lady I spoke to yesterday) so she can only contact him in the evenings and the weekends. Again, with the changing of the password on the cell phone, I put the odds at 5%. However, for my kids' sake, I will do my best to save this marriage.


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## HurtinginTN

lol - McDonald's. That is precisely where I was the night she declined a date with me for her online love fest with him. I was watching and trying to eat a Quarter Pounder.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

SOunds like ur doing just enough to get the show started!










Sorry, dont mean to make funny. It's not. it sucks.


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## Eli-Zor

Stopping the affair is not a love buster, you must ensure you do not smile or show any form of emotion, anger or joy at her pain.

Work out how to change the pin on the phone again and this time lock it down permanently. Carry on your research on the OM i.e place of work, friends etc.

I suggest you plan your next steps, you will not be able to stop the affair should she continue to pursue the OM furthermore the way to recovery is for her to willingly stop and show remorse for what she has done.

There are a set of steps and boundaries you put in place for your wife to agree to and follow



> 1. no contact ever again with the OM - she agrees to send him a handwritten no contact letter
> 
> 2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc
> 
> 3. no more opposite sex friendships
> 
> 4. complete honesty about her affair
> 
> 5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage



If she declines any of the above you are in a position where you will have to make a decision. You can try do this as a half glass full job or you can take steps to resolve this permanently. The half glass says your marriage will not succeed in the long term. 

I have said before you must create a plan with a timeline that includes your children staying with you, and your wife moving out. Unless your wife changes you are in for a long, hurtful, stressful ride where you take the pain, her hatred and rage. 

Unfortunately affair people can sustain the affair and behavior for a long time. The only option will be for you to switch to Plan B, she leaves family and home and you bunker down with the children. This will give you time to breath and for the children to settle.


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## Notanidiot

Hi Hurting, I just spent the last hour or so reading though this thread. I feel for you and know what you are going through. I can not offer advice as I am at not in a position mentally (just busted my husband 2 days ago), but wanted to offer my thoughts for you. Good luck and be strong.


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## HurtinginTN

Thank you for your support! I'm sorry you're here as well.


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## Notanidiot

Yeah, an unfrotunate thing to see so many going through the feeling of being broken in half by the people that are supposed to love them the most.


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## HurtinginTN

She called him and talked for about an hour Tuesday night. Her dad talked to her about an hour and a half that day. His step-mom also talked to him that day. She called him "to discuss the things her dad had talked to her about." 

We discussed her moving out. She said, "I'm not leaving and you can't kick me out." I don't know where she gets her advice (I suspect the "counsellor" that I'm paying for), but she is fully convinced I can not kick her out of our house. 

She did bring up a good point. I am only home a few hours at night before bedtime. She is with the kids all day every day. It's too late in the school year to get the kids enrolled in school right now. If one is to leave, how would it not be better for me to move out?

I had packed my bags while she was out on the phone with him. She wasn't in the house. She went for a "drive" to talk to him. I am about ready to give up on this marriage. Her stubborness and blatant disregard is very quickly depleting any love for her I have left.


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## turnera

DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE!

Come on, you can handle a petulant child for a couple more months. Don't do anything reckless that could endanger your access to your children.

What does your lawyer say?

Who else have you exposed to? Her friends? Siblings? Cousins? Priest?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

turnera said:


> DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE!


:iagree:

f*ck her logic. It's fogged. 

DON'T: Your wife is cheating on you. You are NOT going to leave your home. She would love for you to leave. She will have a modem in a matter of minutes, and plane tickets for him within the week. She would also have immediate grounds for "abandonment" she gets house, kids, alimony, child support, AND she gets Dreamy McSpade all on your f*cking dime.

No. Your not leaving. 

DO: Pressure, non-stop, relentless pressure. Financially cut her off immediately. No more counselor, no more access to bank accounts, no more money to pay her phone bill to conduct the affair.


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## michzz

BTW, she can access the internet from her phone directly or using it to tether her laptop to it for internet access.

BTW II, if you can't get her out of the house, then do what you can to remove her legally. Start divorce proceedings.

BTW III, so what if the children are with her all day at the house. She is using them as hostages in her affair! Document this for the divorce. As in, phone calls during the day when they are home, etc. If he drops by. If she leaves them unattended.

BTW IV, I think you are at an end in your marriage. Act accordingly.


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## turnera

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> DO: Pressure, non-stop, relentless pressure. *Financially cut her off immediately. No more counselor, no more access to bank accounts, no more money to pay her phone bill to conduct the affair*.


Please do this. You can always reset things later if she backs down.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> She said, "I'm not leaving and you can't kick me out."


DO NOT MOVE OUT. If she wants to have an affair, SHE can leave. If she continues to carry on, I would seriously consider filing for divorce and having her served right at home.

Cut off all financial support that isn't related to your children. Stop paying for her IC.


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## HurtinginTN

IC? I don't know what that is.

OK, I get it. Moving out is a bad idea.


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## Powerbane

HurtinginTN said:


> IC? I don't know what that is.
> 
> OK, I get it. Moving out is a bad idea.


Stay put!!!!!!

But do cut off funds for her to pay for the affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> IC? I don't know what that is.


Independant Counseling. Her personal shrink.


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## HurtinginTN

OK, thanks. I agree. Her counsellor actually told her I am not her father and she is not my daughter because I yanked the modem. I paid a pretty penny for her to give my wife that advice!


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## Eli-Zor

You have an outline for a plan in my previous posts. 

You are being a doormat, fight for your children and yourself, your wife can follow or fall as she chooses. When I said register the children at school I meant it, take all monies away she has access to none. Cancel all counciling , start exposing the affair to her friends.

Do not dally act now .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane

It's never too late to register for school. Start calling the schools.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

The schools are on spring break. I'll call them when they return. I have been considering enrolling them. With it so late in the school year, I don't know if that will work. I will check with them when they get back from spring break.


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## Affaircare

Okay note to self: If her name is on the lease/deed and her name is on the mortgage, then you do not have the right to kick her out as it is also her property. If her name is not on the lease/deed AND her name is not on the mortgage, then you absolutely can. If her name is on one (lease/deed or mortgage) and not the other...OR if her name is on the lease/deed and on the mortgage, I would recommend filing for Legal Separation and motioning for Exclusive Use of the home. 

Legal Separation is not divorcing, but it is a way of having the courts enforce things rather than just you trying to force her or her trying to force you. Exclusive Use means that in your separation papers, you indicate to the judge that you want to separate, she is having an affair and has left the family and children for this other person, and you want to give the children as much stability as possible--thus as the parent who is thinking of THEIR BEST INTEREST you want them to be able to stay in the family home with you, in their beds, with their "things." Based on the fact that she has mentally, emotionally, and sexually abandoned the marriage (and you have not) you ask the judge to allow you to exclusively use the marital home and order her to leave--and give you primarily residential custody so the kids can remain in their family home. 

Once the judge orders exclusive use and primarily custody, she has X number of days to be out, and the kids stay. Furthermore, a court will enforce that, not you. 

Right now she is in a fog of thinking, "I've been their mom, so I'll get the kids, the house, and his money (child support and alimony)" but when reality hits her squarely in the face--that she's going to lose her kids, her home, and won't have NEARLY as much of your money as her fog-think believes--she'll either come around AND QUICK or she'll harden her heart and plunge deeper into the fog.


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## Eli-Zor

Adultery divorce laws vary from state to state. The adultery divorce laws that govern certain states can make getting a divorce based on infidelity more difficult than others.



> In states that have a divorce law specifying proof of adultery is needed, there are several ways to obtain this proof and have a divorce granted. Since adultery is considered to be a very serious reason for a marriage to end, adultery divorce laws will often not grant many assets to the party that is responsible for the adultery. The courts do not tend to have much sympathy on the one who committed adultery and divorce laws reflect that. In some states, an individual is still required to be separated first under state divorce laws, even with proof of adultery.


What state do you reside in ?


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## HurtinginTN

Tennessee. I have exposed to family and friends. He is a single man, so there aren't many to expose to on his end. His dad and step-mother know. He spent a week with them a while back on vacation, so there is some relationship there. He did tell them he had been playing spades with someone, so she (the step-mom that I talked to) knew I wasn't making things up. According to my wife, his step-mom talked to him. He told my wife, she told me. According to her version, the step-mom followed through what she told me she would do. She agreed that she didn't want to see a marriage break up. 

Since my wife still insists on continuing this thing, I do believe my next step must be to talk to an attorney. Her name is on the deed. Perhaps I need to start a new thread on the "Separation and Divorce" room.


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## Eli-Zor

Rock the boat, take your time and slowly maneuver her out of the way. Get a a nasty attorney,she is not playing fair, so do not be nice.



> Under Tennessee adultery law, a partner can file for divorce on the grounds that the other party has committed adultery. In Tennessee law adultery is relevant to prove grounds for divorce and may be relevant on the issue of an award of alimony.


If you know who he is can you hire a PI to find his place of works and home address. 

At this moment your wife is in the flush of the affair, once it gets unpleasant and the consequences become clear life become a little more real.

Buy a var and hide it in the car as well as a GPS. You will need the evidence. Secure the devices, many BS have fallen foul because the device comes loose.


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## HurtinginTN

Anger has been my predominant emotion the past month. Today, anger has subsided and extreme pain has replaced it. Any suggestions on dealing with the wave of hurt?


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## MsLonely

Did your wife ever meet or kiss that guy? Or it's just about playing online game thing? 
Why don't you join the game and play with your wife instead?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Anger has been my predominant emotion the past month. Today, anger has subsided and extreme pain has replaced it. Any suggestions on dealing with the wave of hurt?


In many cases the last thing you want is to be around people. There can be any number of emotions going on in you that cause you to withdraw from other people in these situations, DON'T.... get support. Family, Friends, church groups, even forums like this one... 

Surround yourself with support. Face the pain, do not hide it, do not try to "tough it out" and supress the emotions. It will only make things worse. These emotions need an outlet this is perfectly normal. You have experienced great loss, purge that darkness and pain out of your soul.

I don't advocate showing any emotion to your DS, as sick as it is, this is counter productive. But, get away from her and CRY. If you feel a need to cry, don't push that down, let it out. Weep and blubber like child if you need to. It's healthy. Face the pain.

I personally went to church every Sunday for a month as an outlet to ball my eyes out. I actually said to myself, Im going to church today to cry... and I did. I can't tell you how theraputic that was helping my get through the stage where the feelings of utter loneliness and desolation, betrayal and hurt are crippling.


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## HurtinginTN

Did your wife ever meet or kiss that guy? Or it's just about playing online game thing? 
Why don't you join the game and play with your wife instead?

I don't believe they have ever met in person. No, it's much more than a game. I have offered to play spades with her many times over the last 9 months. Our daughters like it and we did play a few games together around the kitchen table. It has nothing to do with the game. It has everything to do with him. 

There was sexual talk on the chat. The only reason it is still an EA instead of a PA is the distance between CO and TN. There are also numerous phone calls from her prepaid phone. 


Crying is exactly what I've felt like doing all day. This pain is excruciating. I've been trying to hold it together and get some work done.


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## HurtinginTN

She wants to drive out to Colorado to meet him. I keep telling her it is a fantasy. She wants to meet him to see if that is true. Of course, anger took back over as my predominant emotion when she told me this. I said she wants to take it from an EA to a PA. She denied this and said she needs to meet him to see what he is really like. She is tired of living in limbo between him and me. Meeting him would give her the information she needs to make a decision.

She has already chosen him. That has been painfully obvious for quite a while. Perhaps the reality of seeing that he is not nearly as wonderful in person as he is in her fantasy could sqaush the whole thing.

On the other hand, it would be really easy for him to put on a great show for a couple of days to convince her that he really is a prince charming. IF there was a physical relationship, the grounds for divorce would be stronger. Currently, it is "just an EA" with no physical contact. I strongly believe an EA is worse than most PA's. The emotional connection is very strong. A one-night stand would have little to no emotional connection.

She is going to meet him. With or without my approval. Actually, there is no way I would ever approve it. There is also no way I would ever believe that nothing physical happened. She will deny it, but there will always be that doubt. The only thing I can think of is a polygraph after her trip. 

As several have said here, my marriage is over. The marriage we have had for almost 13 years is gone. There is still a slight possibility that we can start a new relationship. However, my motivation for that has been decreasing at an ever increasing pace. Saturday night took away all desire to work things out with her. 

She knows her family disapproves. She knows his family disapproves. She knows the children will be extremely hurt. Yet, she continues in her fantasy. I told her that even if she leaves me for him, their relationship will not last. It is based on fantasy. When reality sets in, it will not survive. Perhaps meeting him is the only way for her to get a glimpse of reality.


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## WhereAmI

HurtinginTN said:


> She wants to drive out to Colorado to meet him. I keep telling her it is a fantasy. She wants to meet him to see if that is true. Of course, anger took back over as my predominant emotion when she told me this. I said she wants to take it from an EA to a PA. She denied this and said she needs to meet him to see what he is really like. She is tired of living in limbo between him and me. Meeting him would give her the information she needs to make a decision.


Let her know that she's free to go, but that she should pack all of her things to bring them with her. Tell her the locks will be changed when she returns and you will be filing so you can move on as well.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> She wants to drive out to Colorado to meet him. I keep telling her it is a fantasy. She wants to meet him to see if that is true. She denied this and said she needs to meet him to see what he is really like. She is tired of living in limbo between him and me. Meeting him would give her the information she needs to make a decision.


You have a choice in the matter, too. You d no't have to let her make all the decisions. Righ tnow you have an open marriage and you are coming across as a doormat by basically letting her live out this fantasy and not standing your ground.

WHAT DO YOU WANT? If you dont want her to meet him, what will the consequence be??? Right now you haven't told her she will suffer any consequences.



HurtinginTN said:


> She is going to meet him. With or without my approval.


So what are you going to do about it? She does not have you or your children's best interest right now. 



HurtinginTN said:


> She knows her family disapproves. She knows his family disapproves. She knows the children will be extremely hurt. *Yet, she continues in her fantasy. * I told her that even if she leaves me for him, their relationship will not last. It is based on fantasy. When reality sets in, it will not survive. Perhaps meeting him is the only way for her to get a glimpse of reality.


Check it out--if she wants to go meet some dude she has met playing cards over the internet, tell her she can do that. But not to expect to com ehom eand find you as her willing and loving husband to tolerate this. You already know that this is all BS. Is the guy married? Tell his wife/partner today. Expose what she is doing to her family. I fshe wants to wreck the marriage over some anonmyous person on the internet, that's her choice. And you know that. We can all see from the outside that she's acting like a dumb dumb. But that is her choice.

Until you stand up for yoruself, she is seeing you as a wek an desperate man. Women do not respect men who don't stand up for themselves. Know that. 

You need to enforce some serious boundaries. Like yesterday.


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## HurtinginTN

I packed her bags and told her that she'll need to pack for a lot longer than a few days. If she goes, she is not welcome back. The house is half hers, so I will have to go through a legal separation in order to get her out. That is the direction I'm leaning. Enough is enough. Actually, I should have done that a month ago. I just keep hoping that the pressure from family and friends will open her eyes. However, she just keeps getting more and more stubborn. Yes, there will definitely be consequences that she will not like if she decides to do this.

No, he is single. I did talk to his step-mother and she told him that he should stop fooling with a married woman. I believe that conversation did take place. She seemed very nice and understanding when I talked to her. My wife told me that he told her that his step-mom was telling him he was wrong. There is pressure from both sides, but neither of them are listening.


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## Jellybeans

Good. I am glad to hear you packed her bags. Now in the meantime, file a legal separation if she ends up going after all. And have her served with it. NOTHING will get her attention faster than that. If she wants out, let her go!


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## turnera

Make sure the bags are placed outside. Tell her that if she doesn't take them with her, you're going to call Salvation Army to pick them up, because they'll be on the curb.


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## pidge70

I'm so sorry.


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## Affaircare

The property may be half hers, and thus you can not change the locks or physically "throw" her out, but you can pack her bags if she intends to drive to Colorado, and call her mom or sister and say: "Come pick her up. I asked her to end her affair with her online card partner and she will not, and I will not have adultery in our maritial home. Her things packed outside in the driveway. Come get them and her" If they live in other states, that's too bad. If they can't or won't come (like they disagree with her affair but just don't have the money to come) you can call a friend who would let her "crash on their couch" or you can rent a Pay By the Week hotel room, buy her a week's worth of rent, and after that she's on her own! 

You can not force her bodily out of the house (or change the locks to prevent her entry), but you can pack her things, call a relative to take her away or get the room... and these things will EFFECTIVELY move her out. Then after that you can show that she left the home and make the request in the Legal Separation for "exclusive use of the marital home and primary custody of the children in their own home" because mom left the home and is living elsewhere.


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## HurtinginTN

She has thrown the marriage away. She insists on continuing the affair. She insists that she must meet him to see if it is just fantasy, as I have reiterated over and over. My marriage is over and I will be seeking legal separation.

My question, I met someone that is interested in me. I asked her on a date for this weekend and she enthusiastically accepted. My "wife" wants to be in Colorado with her boyfriend. I know that is probably foolish to take another woman on a date. As long as I keep my clothes on (which will definitely happen), what would the repercussions be?


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## Jellybeans

If she wants to throw the marriage away, that's her choice.
And you also have a choice. Put your foot down. Be firm. 

Hurting, I really don't think meeting someone else right now is the answer. You are all ove rthe place emotionally and dealing with a major blow to your marriage. If you do that, you will basically be doing what your wife is doing. Up to you but I would advise against it.


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## HurtinginTN

Maybe it will open her eyes to see that I won't be here waiting around forever while she continues her affair. I don't want to get into another relationship. It wouldn't work right now. Perhaps it is on some level to be spiteful to my wife. I am so empty right now that a date with someone who enjoys my company looks so very appealing. I suppose it wouldn't be fair to the other girl, either. I am struggling with what to do. 

I know the right thing would be not to do it. However, my wife also knows that the right thing would be to end her affair. Why should I remain committed to someone who doesn't give a flip about me or our marriage?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

DO NOT DO IT. 

Legally, ethically, & morally it is the worst thing you could do right now.


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## 827Aug

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> DO NOT DO IT.
> 
> Legally, ethically, & morally it is the worst thing you could do right now.



:iagree:

My therapist gave me some good advice a couple of years ago. When you are the victim of a cheating spouse and heading into divorce, you want to "wear a halo". You really want to appear as the victim. Although infidelity technically has no bearing in my state it can still come into play. Appearances and opinions can still sway a judge. I'm glad I listened to my therapist because the judge had no sympathy for my estranged husband. In other words, don't give your wife any ammunition to use against you.


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## pidge70

I have some personal experience with this.....I had an EA/PA and my SO was all over the map, one minute he loved me and wanted to work it out, few hours later I was a wh*re and he hated me. I was the one pushing really hard to work it out. He ended up having an EA with some "woman" for about a month. Even went so far as to drive almost 5 hours away to see her and stayed overnight twice. Anyway, my point is, that DEFINITELY woke me up! Not advocating it by any means, I hurt him, he hurt me. He has stated he regrets doing it and apologized to me numerous times. Your head and heart are not in a good place right now. It would be unfair to bring anyone else into your life while you are so confused and upset. Be strong for you and your children.


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## HurtinginTN

You are all correct. I called the other girl and cancelled the date. I told her I am still married and it wouldn't be fair to her to take her out until the divorce is final. I did tell her we are separated (which is true) and that my wife has a boyfriend. However, it wouldn't be right to start dating until the marriage is officially over. I need to heal first before I consider starting another relationship.


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## Jellybeans

Good for you. How did the date chick respond?

Did you call up an attorney regarding legal separation?

Get out this weekend. Meet up with some friends.


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## gasunrise

Affaircare said:


> ..... "exclusive use of the marital home and primary custody of the children in their own home"


More specifically, "use and possession of the marital homeplace, primary custody of the minor child, and temporary child support" Even though she doesn't work, minimum wage can be imputed to determine a child support amount. According to the laws in your state it may be necessary to have an instanter hearing to accomplish all of this but those move quick. At the same time have your attorney file papers with the court to prevent her from doing anything with any of the marital assets. It will restrict your movements as well but as a protective measure it is in your best interest.


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## HurtinginTN

She responded extremely well. She said she was sorry that I am going through this. I told her that she is very beautiful and seems very nice. She respects that I decided not to date until the divorce is final. She did mention that I know where she works . 

If my wife continues on her current path, divorce will be sooner rather than later. Even if she changes her tune now, it may be too far down the road for reconciliation. If divorce does come about and the date girl is still available, my decision to wait until the divorce is final will be a great start to a new relationship. 

I told her that I was very flattered that she accepted my offer. She made me feel better with her enthusiastic response than I have felt in quite some time. Basically, she left me with an open invitation. That is extremely uplifting, especially since my "wife" of 13 years is more concerned about her boyfriend she still calls each night and wants to meet.


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## pidge70

Didn't you say you only have the one vehicle? Is the car in your name? I just wonder how she plans on driving all that way and leaving you without a car and she has no income. Are you expected to finance her little trip?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

I have contacted an attorney. 

Yes, we do only have one vehicle. Yes, she was expecting me to shell out the cash for her to rent a car to drive 18 hours one way for her rendezvous with her boyfriend. Even after I showed her it would be about $1,000 with the extra mileage fees, she still expected me to pay for it. How ridiculous is that?

If I was in the boyfriend's shoes (which I wouldn't be fooling around with a married woman), I would be offering to buy her a ticket or flying to TN myself. It's almost as if she is pursuing this more than he is.


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## Jellybeans

DO NOT finance her trip to visit OM. 

You did a good thing by telling her you want to wait til D is over for any potential dates. Very respectful and commendable.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> Yes, she was expecting me to shell out the cash for her to rent a car to drive 18 hours one way for her rendezvous with her boyfriend. Even after I showed her it would be about $1,000 with the extra mileage fees, she still expected me to pay for it. How ridiculous is that?


Quite ridiculous.

What's funny is what if she gets up there and fnids out OM is actually an old woman? Or a psychopath? Oh well. Free will. SHe is basically saying he is more important than your marriage and kids.

Do not give her money.


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## pidge70

Wow! She has big ones! If she wants to meet him so bad, tell her to pay for it herself. In no way, shape or form should you help enable her to go. It is curious as to why he hasn't offered to head her way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

I agree. I told her last night that the fact she wants to go visit him took away what little desire I had left to work out this marriage. I also told her I will not pay a dime for her to visit him. If they want it so bad, he will have to pay for it. Also, I told her that if she does go, our chances of reconciliation are practically zero. Actually, they are practically zero right now.


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## Jellybeans

Good correction. You must tell her, if she goes, there is no chance for reconciliation. And you must remain firm and mean it.


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## pidge70

My SO stated that if I hadn't fought so hard for him and said that I wanted my family...he would have just ended it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

Man, the pain is horrible. Last night was another bad night. She confessed to kissing another man a few years ago. She says that is all that happened, but at the time she vehemently denied that anything at all had happened. I was drinking a cup of water and threw the water on her. I walked out of the room, she followed me, the kids saw her soaking wet shirt, and I went out for a walk to cool off (should have done that before throwing the water). I came back to crying kids that were mad at their Daddy. I wanted to tell them why I threw the water, but I didn't at that point.

I know. Get the anger under control. That can't help anything. The pain the kids had last night is still tearing me up. That was over some water on her shirt. I can't imagine the coming pain with a divorce. WHY CAN'T SHE SEE WHAT SHE IS DOING TO OUR CHILDREN??????


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## paramore

I am not one to judge Hurt, normally I react with strong emotions such as that, never violent, but I have cried/yelled in the past. While the water throwing was a no no, think of this as a baby step, you could have resorted to namecalling, screaming and yelling. You left to cool off. As for the kissing a guy??? I wonder how much more you have left to find out....


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## HurtinginTN

More iceberg. Do those things actually have a bottom or do they go on forever? That guy was 7 years ago. But the new information makes it fresh as if it happened yesterday. I know it didn't go further than Tunica. She tried her best to find him, but couldn't. That is from her sister back when it happened, which I believe is true. I don't believe it stopped with a kiss in Tunica, but I'll never know the whole truth. That on top of the fact that she wants to meet this current boyfriend. 

The kids are all I can think about today. Why can't she consider the impact on them? How does this fog get soooooooo thick?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> TN, I have been aggressively trying to get you to listen because I know first hand and I can't tell you the shock and depth of "OMG WTF!?" I have gone through and seen with my W an her addiction/affair... I've read everything that you have said, and your wife sounds like she has the exact same level of addiction... You have no idea. Really. This is going to get crazy, like crazy you can't fathom right now.


Read my above post from awhile ago again.

I'm sorry Brother. She's already gone. Let her go, your marriage is over. 

“Some people think it's holding on that makes one strong- sometimes it's letting go.”

Your children need you. They need Dad to be strong, right now. Mommy is _gone._ Be the hero.


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## 827Aug

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Read my above post from awhile ago again.
> 
> I'm sorry Brother. She's already gone. Let her go, your marriage is over.
> 
> “Some people think it's holding on that makes one strong- sometimes it's letting go.”
> 
> Your children need you. They need Dad to be strong, right now. Mommy is _gone._ Be the hero.


:iagree:

See the lawyer and please protect your assets. I'm in financial ruin because I waited too long to lock everything down. I kept holding out hope my estrange husband would come to his senses. It didn't happen--he went through everything. And also don't leave your house.


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## HurtinginTN

I agree. I talked to 2 divorce attorneys today. OUCH!!! I don't know which hurts worse, her affair or their retainer. lol. Just kidding, of course. No amount of money could hurt worse than her affair. I don't have that cash. I guess I have no choice left but to suck it up until I can save it up. There aren't very many assets to our marriage, except for the kids. I'm not worried about the money. I am worried about the affect on the kids. Not much I can do about that.


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## Eli-Zor

When are you going to tell your children the whole truth about their mother's ongoing affair?

Do you think they do not know something is wrong? By not telling them the only persons you are hurting are your children , tell them and be there for them.


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## HurtinginTN

I keep going back and forth on that one. She is their mother. She will always be their mother, regardless of how much longer she is my wife. If they were a little older, I would do it. They are 7, 9, and 10. Can they comprehend what is going on? At some point, it will come out unless she has a drastic change in her attitude. Am I just delaying the inevitable? Probably. The pain they had last night because I threw water on Mommy has really hurt me today. I don't have any more hope for the relationship, but I have renewed determination to do all I possibly can to prevent them from having to go through the pain of divorce.


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## Chrono

I'd tell them, NOW. Kick her out, NOW. She doesn't care about anyone but herself, after reading through this thread. I feel your pain man. I just recently discovered my wife's own emotional affair that went on for two years and just recently escalated to sexting. I'm holding my ground but I don't want to end the marriage. If my wife EVER tries to make contact again, she's gone. It's not fair to the kids and it's not fair to me.


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## paramore

Hurt, I am so sorry it has come to this, as you know at this point, divorce isn't in my plans, not saying that it won't get there, as I think we both need to be in better places personally before we make decisions, we owe that to ourselves. We are in a place financially where we can't afford it either. In the same boat bro, just biding time. In my case I believe he hasn't been in contact, while there is the constant doubt, we are here for ya dude.


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## turnera

Tell them 'mommy has found a boyfriend, and marriages aren't supposed to have a boyfriend in them, so mommy and I may not stay together. But we're going to work on it. And no matter what, we both love you more than anything.'

Sometimes all it takes for a WW is to hear her kids ask her why she wants to leave the family for a boyfriend. Plus, you're teaching them what is right and wrong.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> I agree. I talked to 2 divorce attorneys today. OUCH!!! I don't know which hurts worse, her affair or their retainer. lol.


LOL Indeed. Well at least you are able to laugh during this tough situation. 

I thi nk you should be honest with the kids. You could tell her tha thse can tell them what's going on and if not, you will.

I do like what the above poster said "mommy has a boyfriend.."


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## paramore

My kids don't really talk to the hubby, the eldest knows pretty much everything, unfortunately from purposely eavesdropping, middle sort of, youngest just bare minimals, he is 6. I forget how old your kids are hurting, it pains me tons that the eldest knows it all, but if she comes to me with questions, I can't lie...if your babies come to you with questions, don't lie, I couldn't look my 13 yr old in the face, when she made it known sort of that she knew and she just needed me to confirm it. What kind of parent would that make me?

I realized that after hubby disclosed to a couple of people, my side needed to be heard. I was so ashamed and embarassed, anyways, I don't mean to jack the thread, when it feels right, if the kids ask you questions, I believe it's right to explain in the appropriate terms what is going on. I personally didn't want to, but I didn't have much of a choice when my eldest pretty much asked me.


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## Forgiveness

I don't know if I would tell the kids. I think you are doing the right thing by not telling them yet. They are so young and like you said no matter what she is still their mother. I would wait until you had no other choice. Just my opinion, and I have no idea what you are going through, because I have never had to deal with this situation, and I really wish you didn't have to go through this, but I would wait until you were actually moving stuff out, either yours or hers. And then I am not sure about telling them the whole truth until they are a bit older. This is just my opinion.


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## gasunrise

Even if you tell them something simple and basic like "mommy and daddy are having some difficulties" they need to be told something BY YOU. 

At this point they are only getting her side of the story (not sure if they were in the room when you threw the water but unless they were how did they know what happened if she didn't tell them). Allowing her to paint you as the bad guy can damage your relationship with the children for years to come if not forever.


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## Forgiveness

I agree with gasunrise, Something simple Like that would be good for you to tell them. I just think and again this is just my opinion, that they are too young for a lot of detail. I know when my kids were little, my husband and I got into an argument. They came and asked me why we were fighting. I and my husband just told them that sometimes mommy and daddies fight or argue and that is normal. Everyone has disagreements and things will be OK.


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## HurtinginTN

About the water, they were not in the room, but she followed me out of the room and they saw her wet shirt. I wrote the kids a note the next morning and told them I was wrong to throw the water on her. I told them she had told me something that made me angry and I reacted in a totally inappropriate way. I told them I was sorry for upsetting them and had apologized to my wife for throwing the water on her. Last night, my girls (9 and 10) hugged me, gave me a kiss, and said "I forgive you, Daddy." 

The kids are going to stay at my parents a few nights. They know what is going on now (my parents, that is). I told my wife a couple of nights ago that we are getting a divorce and I'm telling the kids when I get back from the store. When I came home, she was on the phone with my mom. She had called her and told her that she had met someone online and I was planning to tell the kids that night that we were getting a divorce because Mommy has a boyfriend. My mom was planning on taking the kids for a few days anyway and said I should wait until they got back. I agreed. They don't need a bomb dropped on them and then be gone a few days. It was later the same night when she admitted kissing another man years ago and I threw the water on her. 

I emailed her brother and told him I was ready for divorce. He called her and talked to her for a while yesterday. He called me and talked to me a while on my way home last night. He had some good suggestions. 

My wife and I talked a little last night. I told her the pain the kids had over the water was horrible and had been eating me alive all day. The pain of a divorce would be 1,000 times greater for them. We both owe it to them to try our best to work this marriage out. It was a busy night getting everything ready for the kids' trip, so there wasn't much talking. We didn't fight, either! I also don't think she called him last night. We'll have time these next few nights to work something out. 

Her brother suggested something similar to Plan B. That is probably where we're going. He said she told him she would agree to cease contact with her boyfriend during a separation. I think splitting the kids and home may be the way to go. Other than her boyfriend, she is a good mother. I'm thinking about staying at my parents' or brother's through the week and she gets the kids and house. I get the kids and the house on the weekends. She has to go to her parents' or sister's. No communication between us and someone else being there for the transitions. 

TN is a no-fault state, according to the attorney I talked to. Even with a divorce, that is likely how things would work out. If she'll agree to no contact with her boyfriend during the separation, it may bring her to reality. If she just continues her nightly phone calls, it will just bring her closer to him.

Our fighting every night can not continue. We'll see how these next few days go. Sorry I have rambled.


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## Jellybeans

When does she go off to visit this Phantom Internet Lover?

Ceasing all contact with OM is the ONLY way your marriage has a shot--and that is up to her to do. In the interim, protect yourself. 

Most states are no-fault, btw.


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## HurtinginTN

She had wanted to leave today. However, the cost of a rental car is much higher than she had thought. Also, it is much further of a drive (18 hours one way). As far as I know, there is no current plan to meet. She still says she wants to meet him, but there is no current plan for when, where, etc. 

Yes, no contact for life is a must. That does have to come from her. I called one of her bridesmaids yesterday. She actually left her first husband for her affair partner. Not a great role model, but she told me that she realizes now how huge that mistake was. The grass definitely wasn't greener on the other side. She said she went through 5 years of hell with the affair partner before leaving him. She missed out on 5 years of her daughter's life, etc. She said that affairs never work out. She has sent my wife an email and tried to call her. She has "been there, done that" and knows what a horrible thing it is.


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## Eli-Zor

I have to say this you on explicit language:

We gave you the essence of a plan that works
Your mother , brother in law etc have no experience in saving marriages, the plan we are giving you has a very high rate of success and has been developed over thirty years of hard learnings.
You were asked to tell your children - you have not done so and your wife WILL dilute her affair and gaslight you.
You never leave home , she goes to her brother and stays there.
She a liar when she says she will not contact him while separated and you sir are a fool if you believe her.

Get a PI and find that mans work and home address or use any other means to obtain a list of his friends. Call him and c?#p him out if you have to , ensure he knows her family know of him and he is facing all of you together. Why do you want his address because he then knows you know where he stays.
Stop being Mr. Nice guy and rattle her fantasy 
You dictate the strategy and way forward not her, this is not a compromise between two rational people , this is you not giving into a wayward wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

Have you bought the book " surviving an affair" and read the articles on the affaircare and MB sites, these provide information that support the way forward. What you cannot do is have your own sort of plan.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Eli-Zor said:


> I have to say this you on explicit language:
> 
> We gave you the essence of a plan that works
> Your mother , brother in law etc have no experience in saving marriages, the plan we are giving you has a very high rate of success and has been developed over thirty years of hard learnings.
> You were asked to tell your children - you have not done so and your wife WILL dilute her affair and gaslight you.
> You never leave home , she goes to her brother and stays there.
> She a liar when she says she will not contact him while separated and you sir are a fool if you believe her.
> 
> Get a PI and find that mans work and home address or use any other means to obtain a list of his friends. Call him and c?#p him out if you have to , ensure he knows her family know of him and he is facing all of you together. Why do you want his address because he then knows you know where he stays.
> Stop being Mr. Nice guy and rattle her fantasy
> You dictate the strategy and way forward not her, this is not a compromise between two rational people , this is you not giving into a wayward wife.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 EXACTLY!

And if you think you owe it to the kids to work on the marriage, do it under the same roof. You should be doing Plan A right now AS WELL AS exposing the affair.


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## HurtinginTN

He doesn't answer my calls. I have started leaving voice mails. Nothing bad, just basically "Call me. You can talk to my wife every night, but you won't answer my calls. We need to talk man to man." Of course, he hasn't returned my calls.

Plan A still? OK. Those kids are the most important thing in my life. Plan A and 180. For how long? One day at a time, I suppose. My line in the sand is them meeting in person. He's either not willing or able to come here. She can't afford to go there.

Do I believe a word that comes out of her mouth? Of course not. Can I make her choice for her? Of course not. 

I do have his address. I have his criminal history, or lack thereof. I have his dad's information and have been in contact with them. Her friends and family are telling her to get her head on straight. 

Do I believe this marriage has a chance? No. Do I believe it is already over in her mind? Absolutely. Can I kick her out of the house? No, it is half hers. Can I file for divorce? No, I don't have the cash. 

Plan A and 180. OK. I have done a horrible Plan A. My anger has shown forth in a bad way. I have not presented a carrot, only the stick. I will work on the carrot for the kids' sake.


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## Eli-Zor

You need his list of friends and place of work. The intent is to mail them a robust well worded note that we can provide to you and make his life uncomfortable. Telling your children using the word adultry ensures your wife has no where to hide her lies. She is following a script , she may according to you think the marriage is over and it is until she stops contacting the OM . You have two huge pluses on your side, the distance between them and your children. You plan her for say 3 months or up to the point you can't handle it anymore. The plan includes you moving monies to your account, you give her the bare minimum of funds required for household items, block all credit cards and overdraft facilities. 

We are on your side even though you may feel at times we are giving you a 2X4 .

Take that phone, if she has no monies she cannot buy a new one. You practice plan A with love and zero tolerance for adultery . There is no divorce or relationship talk , your words and deeds is what she must remember if she leaves home, you must be a light compared to the OM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

She has the phone hidden. She keeps it turned off except when calling him, apparently. I can't call it and listen for the ring. I have searched and will continue to. There are lots of hiding places. We have 2 cats and it has been my chore to brush them. One of them has a hiding place somewhere in the house that I have been unable to find. When I go looking for her, I have shut all of the doors to rooms and performed a systematic search of every room and been unable to find her on several occassions. I just have to catch her off guard when she is roaming around the house in order to brush her.

The point is, that cell phone is much smaller than the cat. My wife's sneakiness is at least as good as the cat's, actually much better. Therefore, my chances of finding that phone are slim to none.


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## HurtinginTN

We are on your side even though you may feel at times we are giving you a 2X4 .

Sometimes I deserve a 2X4. Often, actually.


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## Jellybeans

The fact that she is even hiding her phone is not good. 

I don't get what she has to hide. She already knows that YOU know.


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## HurtinginTN

I don't know why she is hiding it. I believe it is because she doesn't want me to have documentation of all of her phone calls to her boyfriend. It's one thing for me to know. It's another thing for me to have it in black and white. She knows I have a printout of her phone records up until a week or two ago. She asked me to log her into her account one morning. She was planning on changing her password at that time. I printed out the history and pulled the modem. I changed the password to something she would never guess, thinking she would not be able to change it. I don't know how she did it, but she was able to get into it and change the password. She also changed the 4 digit PIN. That is the part I had neglected to do. I suppose that is how she changed the password. Actually, she must have had her boyfriend do it since there was no access to internet when she did it. Perhaps, she could have done it through the phone. Who knows.


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## gasunrise

HurtinginTN said:


> Do I believe this marriage has a chance? No. Do I believe it is already over in her mind? Absolutely. Can I kick her out of the house? No, it is half hers. Can I file for divorce? No, I don't have the cash.


Speak with your/an attorney about payments, often if you can make some form of initial payment they will draw up the papers, allow you to sign (if its uncontested) but not file them until payment is completed. Now if you are looking at a contested divorce filing, thats a whole different ballgame but still yet you can, often times, make payments to get things going.


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## HurtinginTN

Woo Hoo! A night without fighting. We played games together and had a decent night. There wasn't much talk about the relationship. She did say that I am pushing her to stay in the marriage. I said that she, our marriage, and our children's happiness are worth fighting for. I told her that I have failed miserably at presenting a carrot. You can beat a donkey in the behind with a 2X4 all day (I am not advocating abusing animals. It is strictly an example.) and he will refuse to budge. If you put a carrot in front of him, he will most likely follow where you lead him. I told her I am sorry that I have not presented a carrot. She has told me I have acted like a monster lately. I agreed and said that I have been wrong. We didn't yell, I didn't cuss, we didn't argue over it. I guess that is a step in the right direction. I'll continue to work on Plan A until she decides to leave.

I do have a new theory on why she wants to meet him. I think he may be "heavy". She has been watching a show on demand a few times lately called "Heavy". She watched one last night. It struck me while we were watching it that he might be heavy. I asked her how much he weighs. She got defensive and said it's none of my business. I asked if she knows and she said Yes. I started to get angry, but I kept it under control. I told her later I was sorry that I got aggravated. Her knowing his weight just shows that they have talked about physical characteristics. She said if it'll make me feel any better, that is the only physical characteristic she knows about him. I asked is she knows his height and she said she only knows his weight.

She has called me fat for years. I was 200 pounds at 5'8" for quite a while. Unfortunately, it certainly wasn't a buff 200 pounds. lol I had lost down to about 180 and lately to 160. Several times when I would mention our horrible sex life, she would say something like, "If you would only work out like you used to, our sex life would be better." Even at a point when I was working out hard and was in the best shape of my life, the sex life never improved. The point is that looks are very important to her.

She has a very strong emotional attachment to him. She has made that perfectly clear. IF my theory is correct and he is "heavy", then she may be wanting to meet him to see if she can overcome the fact that he isn't a cover model for Muscle and Fitness. I don't know another plausible explanation for her knowing his weight, her new interest in the show Heavy, and her defensiveness when I asked how much he weighed. 

I firmly believe what is inside someone is much more important than their body size and shape. After 3 kids, her body is not what it was when we married either. However, I have never been unattracted to her and have always made it clear that I think she is beautiful, regardless of how much she weighs.


----------



## turnera

Remind me...did you expose this to her family and friends?


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## HurtinginTN

Yes, her family, my family and OM's parents know. OM is single, so there is no SO on his end to expose to. Her best friend knows. Our children (7, 9, and 10) are the only ones I have not exposed the affair to. They are at my parents' for a few days. I am still struggling with telling them when they come home.


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## turnera

Ok, then the next step is to make carrying on the affair in the house next to impossible. If you see her texting him in front of you, find a way to interrupt the call, starting with getting up close and personal and saying 'you are disrespecting your husband by committing adultery in the home I have provided, and I expect you to go outside to cheat, if you're going to carry on.' And to calmly state your boundaries every chance you get. And to set a timeline.


----------



## turnera

And I'd be letting her folks know each time she contacts him.


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## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> Ok, then the next step is to make carrying on the affair in the house next to impossible. If you see her texting him in front of you, find a way to interrupt the call, starting with getting up close and personal and saying 'you are disrespecting your husband by committing adultery in the home I have provided, and I expect you to go outside to cheat, if you're going to carry on.' And to calmly state your boundaries every chance you get. And to set a timeline.


Yeah, do this. Has she mentioned the trip anymore?


----------



## HurtinginTN

No, she hasn't mentioned it anymore. She's not going this weekend. She still says she wants to meet him, but I don't believe there are any current plans. I'll keep on with Plan A for now and maybe she'll change her mind. Don't worry, I'm not betting the farm on it.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Wow! Pit of my Stomach recommended crying to let out the pain. I cried like a baby in the car at lunch. I feel a lot better. Why does that work? It's almost as if the tears actually carry away some of the pain. There has to be some physiological explanation. Or is it just the process of letting go? Whatever it is, it does feel better.


----------



## gasunrise

There was a study done of the chemical make-up of tears of sorry vs. tears of joy. Chemically they are different. You are literally getting something out of your system.


----------



## Jellybeans

Sometimes a good cry is necessary.


----------



## paramore

I agree, sometimes a good bawlfest is in order.


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## HurtinginTN

Plan A is going OK. I just saw the rest of the chat from 2 weeks ago. He has done time in jail. And another 1 year work release. Why didn't that show up on the criminal history I purchased? I know I have the right guy because I have talked to his step-mom twice. She confirmed the information that I had. He said he settled down after the kids were born. He has said his oldest is 11 and he turned 34 today, according to the date of birth on the supposed criminal history report. That doesn't make it sound like it would have been a juvenile record. Also, the 1 year work release was supposed to be after his kids were born. Is he lying to her about the jail time or is the criminal history report in error? I don't understand why he would lie about being in jail unless it is trying to sound like a "bad boy". 

Any thoughts?


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## turnera

Men always lie when they want sex.


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## HurtinginTN

We talked a while last night. Again, she told me she wants to meet him before she ends it. I told her that the only reason to meet him is to see if there is a physical connection as well as an emotional connection. She has already left me in her heart and mind for her image of this man. She just wants to meet him to see if her image is correct or not. If she goes to meet him, the deal is done. 

She went to her counsellor yesterday. (I know, the advice has been to stop paying for that. However, I do love her and want her to be able to work through the issues that she has been struggling with for years.) She said the counsellor asked her what she would do if she got out there and found out Romeo wasn't all she thought he was. She told the counsellor that she guesses she would go to marriage counselling.

I told her that what she is basically saying is that I am her fall-back plan. She doesn't want to end it with me until she finds out if Romeo is all he's cracked up to be. IF she meets Prince Charming and he is what she imagines, then she would leave me and the kids. She said she doesn't know that. So I asked her what the point would be in meeting him then. 

I told her that, of course, they would hit it off on a brief visit. He could put his best foot forward and hide anything bad very easily on a weekend visit. It would take a while before everything came to the surface above the infatuation which would hide all imperfections. 

She asked if I would try to take away her kids. I told her that I DO NOT want to take the kids away from their mother. However, I will not allow them to go with her to her trainwreck relationship with this other man. It would last at best 6 months to a year because it is based on lies and cheating. I WILL NOT subject my children to that. 

I reiterated that she is the one that wants to take them away from me by separating over this other man. She is the one that wants to deprive the children of having both parents. 

She finally said that she will not meet him. Also, she will stop calling him. She still refused to give me her password to her cell phone and write a no-contact letter. I told her that just shows me that she is not telling the truth. Also, she will not agree to work on the marriage, no marriage counselling, no marriage builder game (which has been sitting in the closet for over a month unopened), etc. 

I did not raise my voice or cuss during the entire conversation. We kept it calm and just discussed it. I went to the store and called her with a question while we were out. She was crying. When I got home, I asked her if she had called him. She said yes, that she called him to tell him she wouldn't be calling anymore. 

Do I believe it is over? No, I give it 3 days at best before she re-initiates contact. I'll just keep working on the carrot. I will continue to improve myself. I will continue working on being Super Dad. (I'm probably on You Tube somewhere. My attempt at skating with the kids this weekend was quite comical, I am sure. lol However, I was having fun with the kids.) 

She said the jail time was because he had bought an expensive sports car and couldn't afford the insurance. He kept getting tickets for no insurance and subsequently went to jail for it. I said, "Great, he is rich." because of her description of the "expensive sports car". She said "No, he is far from rich." I said Yeah, I guess so. He couldn't afford the insurance because he bought too much car and went to jail for it, supposedly. Also, I pointed out that HE HAS A ROOMMATE. He isn't even supporting himself. How could she expect him to support a family?

Sorry for the rambling. I needed to get it off my chest.


----------



## Jellybeans

Please. He probably lied to her about what he went to jail for. Can you find out what he went to jail for?

You need to really ask yourself if this is someone you want to be with TN. I know you love her to pieces but she is showing ove rand over again she isn't willing to give him up, she lies to you about saying she'll end contact, then calls him again, then waffles, then says she doesn't watn to do counselling. It's like she's got you as a safe back up. It's wrong. 

If she wanted to give it her all with you, she'd sever all ties, become transparent and give you the passcodes.

She can't even be 100% honest with you after you'd called her out on the fact. The fact she is choosing to possibly shack up with a convicted felon she has NEVER EVEN MET BEFORE is crazy.

Give her enough rope to let her hang herself.


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## HurtinginTN

I doubt the whole jail story. I did purchase a background check that only showed a few judgements on bad debt. Nothing at all about jail time. I have a brother-in-law that is a police officer. I may ask him what he can dig up. I don't know if that is ethical or not, so I'm not sure whether to even ask him. He may get in trouble using his police resources for personal reasons. I emailed the background check company today asking them why his supposed jail time didn't show up. I got an automated response saying it may be 2 - 3 days while they research it. 

Yes, that is a big concern, whether I want to be with her or not. IF she went and met Mr. Wonderful and it didn't work out, she would go to marriage counselling. I told her that if she tried to work it out with him and used me as a fall-back, it would only be a matter of time before she ran to some other guy. For our marriage to work long-term, she will have to agree to full transparency, no future contact with OM, marriage counselling, actively working on our relationship, etc.

For the kids' sake, I'm willing to ride it out for now to see if she comes out of the "fog". All the while, I am working on myself. I even told her at one point that it would be a shame for her to throw away the new and improved me for some other woman to reap the benefit. 

The Plan A work will benefit me in the end. If she chooses to let it benefit her as well, then so be it. If she still decides to throw me in the garbage, Plan A will be much better with someone who actually gives something in return later on.


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> Men always lie when they want sex.


True.



HurtinginTN said:


> * IF she went and met Mr. Wonderful and it didn't work out, she would go to marriage counselling. *


That is lame. 

How long has she been in contact with this guy?

If he lied about being in jail than he's an even bigger idiot than he comes across. 

Get your BIL to find out about the jail thing.


----------



## HurtinginTN

lol. I agree about the lame. 9 months they have been playing Spades together. From the beginning, I told her the amount of time she was spending with this man was wrong. She gave the normal BS and I semi-bought it. "It's just a game." "You're just jealous." "You wouldn't care if it was a woman." etc. 

For most of this time, we were both involved with a common mistress, of sorts. I would get upset about the time with him, and Mary Jane would ease the pain. I believe that contributed strongly to both her lack of judgement in the affair and mine in not confronting the problem sooner. She is no longer in either of our lives.

I believe the phone calls have just started in the last month and a half or so, since D-Day. I discovered her email searches and confronted her. Instead of ending the affair, she has just escalated it. My angry outbursts have definitely not helped matters. I have gotten them under control and done better on the carrot the past week or so. I had only been using the stick, which was not effective at all.


----------



## Jellybeans

So wait... you are saying she's been seeking out OM for 9 months now has to do with the fact you guys smoked a little weed?

TN, you know that is BS. 

She is an adult and has a choice.


----------



## HurtinginTN

No, it wasn't the reason, but it definitely contributed to me not taking action sooner. It made it easier to buy her BS.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

you do realize that you can not compete with this guy right? He's not real. He's an idea. Comparing yourself to him or competing against the idea of him is literally not possible... The same goes the other way, the OM is digging in his heals because he is also "in love" with an idea... They have built an elaborate fantasy world, literally an alternate reality that they have been living in... In this imaginary world they are clandestined soul mates, Bonnie & Clyde, Romeo & Juliet, etc..etc... 

You should absolutely be focused on finding out more about OM and the issues in his background to leverage that information to protect your children (legally/divorce terms) against exposure to him. But, let go of the idea that you are going to uncover something that will shake you wife up and bring her out of this fog, I don't know that you are going to coax, reason or manipulate her out of the imaginary romance novel her brain lives in right now... Problem is it's in their heads and they are very much addicted to it, so they get to rewrite it anyway they want and they _need _to hold onto it...


----------



## Jellybeans

I'm gonna put it to you this way: if you do the same thing over and over, you will get the same results.

Isn't that the definition of insanity?

So try a different approach -- LET HER GO.


----------



## HurtinginTN

So try a different approach -- LET HER GO.

How do you do the quotes in the shaded areas? Anyway, are you saying to let her go meet him? I don't see how that would help anything. 

I agree POMS. The fairytale in her head is impossible to compete with. I'm not working on myself to compete with him. I'm doing it for myself. I can't change her. I can't change her mind. I can't force her to commit to the marriage or to me. I can, however, work on myself. I'd say there is about a 5% chance she will come around. 

I also agree about the background information on him. I believe I have enough to convince a sane person that he should never be around my kids. He has admitted attempting suicide 5 times. He claims to have been in jail at one point and a 1-year work release at another point. He has 2 kids (verified with his step-mom) with a woman he was never married to. He never sees his kids. He lives with a man right now. He doesn't even support himself, much less a family. He supposedly was taken from his parents at a young age for abuse. 

Whether any of these things help legally, I have no idea. Perhaps I should try to track down the mother of his children. I don't know how to go about that except to ask his step-mom. I doubt she would be willing to divulge that information. Perhaps I could track down his home phone number and talk to his roommate. I have attempted to call him many times, but he won't answer my calls. I have left messages saying something to the effect of, "You continue to answer my wife's calls, but you won't answer my calls. What kind of a man is that?" 

I remain diligent in the search for information on him. I seriously doubt anything she says. I doubt that she will come out of the "fog" and work on this marriage. I am committed to do my best for my kids.


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## Jellybeans

I am running off for a bit ut you "do the quotes with the shades" by clicking on the bottom of someone's post where it says QUOTE and then click on POST RePLY. Voila! 

Be back in a bit...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> How do you do the quotes in the shaded areas?


At the bottom of any post you see a button that says "quote"... hit that and a quote of that post will appear automatically in your reponse, you will see it. you can edit it down to the text you wish to quote. If you want to quote several different posts in one reply click the "multi" buttons on the posts you want to quote, edit accordingly.



HurtinginTN said:


> I agree POMS.


Call me Pit. The POMS thing confused me, lol.


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## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Call me Pit. The POMS thing confused me, lol.


Like that? I had seen someone else use the "POMS". lol The quote thing makes it easier. Are things going any better in your world?


----------



## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> She is an adult and has a choice.


Yes, and she says she is not ready to make that choice yet (him or me). How long could she possibly take? She wants to see how things go with him and string me along for the back-up plan.



Jellybeans said:


> I'm gonna put it to you this way: if you do the same thing over and over, you will get the same results.
> 
> Isn't that the definition of insanity?
> 
> So try a different approach -- LET HER GO.


Yes, that is absolutely true about insanity. Basically, the 180 is "letting her go." In order to truly do the 180, you have to let it go.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> I'm not working on myself to compete with him. I'm doing it for myself. I can't change her. I can't change her mind. I can't force her to commit to the marriage or to me. I can, however, work on myself.


Now that's more like it. Good work. 



HurtinginTN said:


> I'd say there is about a 5% chance she will come around.


Less.



HurtinginTN said:


> I also agree about the background information on him. I believe I have enough to convince a sane person that he should never be around my kids.


She's not sane.



HurtinginTN said:


> He has admitted attempting suicide 5 times. He claims to have been in jail at one point and a 1-year work release at another point. He has 2 kids (verified with his step-mom) with a woman he was never married to. He never sees his kids. He lives with a man right now. He doesn't even support himself, much less a family. He supposedly was taken from his parents at a young age for abuse.


lol. Funny how the mind works in these fuct up DS's, I'd be curious just for a laugh how she rebuilt the above information into.... "Mysterious bad boy type, misunderstood rebel, tough guy with a puppy dog heart. Poor hurt soul, diamond in the rough, hopeless romantic"




HurtinginTN said:


> Perhaps I should try to track down the mother of his children. I don't know how to go about that except to ask his step-mom. I doubt she would be willing to divulge that information. Perhaps I could track down his home phone number and talk to his roommate.


Probably a waste of time.



HurtinginTN said:


> I have attempted to call him many times, but he won't answer my calls. I have left messages saying something to the effect of, "You continue to answer my wife's calls, but you won't answer my calls. What kind of a man is that?"


Won't do you any good. Eliminate the scenario's in your head that include reasoning with him or getting him to see your point of view. Threatening or intimidating him is also not going to happen. Any scenario you are thinking about along those lines is a waste or your time and mental/emotional capitol... You will need that emotional/mental energy don't waste it there... that's a dead end. 

Don't forget the reality that they live in doesn't exist. Also remember In this carefully sculpted fanasty, they have already written your character... Your W has spent an enormous amount of energy making you the bad guy in in their fantasy world... partially because she needs to so she can deal with her guilt, partially as a benefit to him... He fits into the "knight in shining armor" role more comforatbly if there is an evil villain to rescue his damsel in distress from... lol, funny and sick, but true.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> She's not sane..


I agree. I was talking about family, court possibly, etc.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Funny how the mind works in these fuct up DS's, I'd be curious just for a laugh how she rebuilt the above information into.... "Mysterious bad boy type, misunderstood rebel, tough guy with a puppy dog heart. Poor hurt soul, diamond in the rough, hopeless romantic".


Someday, I'll have to ask that question. lol It would be insightful to know the answer to that question.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Eliminate the scenario's in your head that include reasoning with him or getting him to see your point of view. Threatening or intimidating him is also not going to happen. Any scenario you are thinking about along those lines is a waste or your time and mental/emotional capitol... You will need that emotional/mental energy don't waste it there... that's a dead end. .


Good point.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Also remember In this carefully sculpted fanasty, they have already written your character... Your W has spent an enormous amount of energy making you the bad guy in in their fantasy world... partially because she needs to so she can deal with her guilt, partially as a benefit to him... He fits into the "knight in shining armor" role more comforatbly if there is an evil villain to rescue his damsel in distress from... lol, funny and sick, but true.


Shouldn't I get some "bad boy" attraction out of my villain role in the fantasy world? lol I did have the thought that a good approach may be to act like the OM (not him in particular, just the outlook). Look at it like they have a relationship and act like an OM trying to steal her from him. If it works for an affair partner, why not try act like an affair partner?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Shouldn't I get some "bad boy" attraction out of my villain role in the fantasy world?


No, this is their fantasy. Afraid they wrote your character as a villain closer to a "Jabba the Hut" type bad guy... tough break. Maybe your best bet is to stop reading the lines the wrote for you, walk off stage and quit the play? These directors are fuct in the head, the production is doomed anyway.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Maybe your best bet is to stop reading the lines the wrote for you, walk off stage and quit the play? These directors are fuct in the head, the production is doomed anyway.


That should be added to the 180. My angry outbursts were part of thier play. Nice correlation. Plan A and 180 are not on thier script.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Your W has spent an enormous amount of energy making you the bad guy in in their fantasy world... partially because she needs to so she can deal with her guilt, partially as a benefit to him... He fits into the "knight in shining armor" role more comforatbly if there is an evil villain to rescue his damsel in distress from


It just hit me. I am the evil villain that wants to take her children away from her. She has said on a couple of occassions, including our discussion yesterday, "A real man would realize that the children are better off with their mother and not try to take them away from her." I said, "That sounds like it came from your boyfriend who never sees his kids." That is where I still fit into their script of a villain. I told her that I will not allow my kids to be around that man. Therefore, I am Jabba the Hut forcing her to choose between Prince Charming and her kids.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Call me Pit. The POMS thing confused me, lol.


:rofl:

Oh come on... POMS has a nice ring to it!



HurtinginTN said:


> Yes, and she says she is not ready to make that choice yet (him or me). How long could she possibly take? She wants to see how things go with him and string me along for the back-up plan.


Anytime you are WAITING for something you are WASTING your time. Why are you waiting for her to make a decision? You don't have to. What about what YOU want? If she can't give you what YOU want and at the very least try to meet you halfway, then you have to decide if you are willing to be second best to some _Random Stranger Anonmyous Possibly Been in Jail Living with a Roommate "Dude." _

He is a fantasy like POMS, excuse me, Pit, (lol) said, and she is being a ding dong if she thinks for a minute this is a wise decision.


----------



## Jellybeans

I see you figured out the quoting thing


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> It just hit me. I am the evil villain that wants to take her children away from her. She has said on a couple of occassions, including our discussion yesterday, "A real man would realize that the children are better off with their mother and not try to take them away from her." I said, "That sounds like it came from your boyfriend who never sees his kids." That is where I still fit into their script of a villain. I told her that I will not allow my kids to be around that man. Therefore, I am Jabba the Hut forcing her to choose between Prince Charming and her kids.


Now your starting to get it. This is what I was talking about.. Pretty bizarre level of fuct up huh? lol.


----------



## Jellybeans

Exactly. YOU are now seen as the intruder in her relationship. 

_Random Stranger Anonmyous Possibly Been in Jail Living with a Roommate "Dude" is ._ the hero. 

The Phantom Hero.

Now do you see how ridiculous it it?


----------



## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans;285603If she can't give you what YOU want and at the very least try to meet you halfway said:


> Random Stranger Anonmyous Possibly Been in Jail Living with a Roommate "Dude." [/I]


I'm not second best. I am far superior to him, at least in reality. I'm not trying to sound conceited, but I will no longer allow her decision to dictate how I feel about myself. 

Currently, we are flat broke. I'll be selling some stuff to get through the next month or so. We have a few months left on our car payments and a repayment plan on our mortgage. She knows in a few months, we'll have an extra several hundred dollars per month available. I just realized that her willingness to stop calling him (supposedly) is a stall tactic until we have more cash available. Then, she'll probably bring up the trip to meet him again.


----------



## Jellybeans

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No, this is their fantasy. Afraid they wrote your character as a villain closer to a "Jabba the Hut" type bad guy... tough break. Maybe your best bet is to stop reading the lines the wrote for you, walk off stage and quit the play? These directors are fuct in the head, the production is doomed anyway.


:rofl: True.



HurtinginTN said:


> I'm not second best. I am far superior to him, at least in reality. .


This is the right attitude.


----------



## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> So try a different approach -- LET HER GO.
> 
> How do you do the quotes in the shaded areas? Anyway, are you saying to let her go meet him? I don't see how that would help anything.


"Let her go" as in don't be there for her. Tell her you're done. You won't continue in an open relationship with her while she carries on with someone else. Cause right now you have an open marriage. And the longer you sit back and let things happen the way she dictates them, the longer you are stuck in the hell that is limbo, allowing her to call the shots. 

So if she wants to meet him, let her. But by all means, don't be the doting husband/ doormat/her back up plan when she gets back and realizes _Random Stranger Anonmyous Possibly Been in Jail Living with a Roommate "Dude"_ wasn't all he was cracked up to be. Or all she was cracked up to be. LOL. 

If she tells you she's unsure of the marriage, tell her YOU are unsure you even want to be with her at this point.

FLIP THE SCRIPT! Develop her attitude.


----------



## HurtinginTN

I am her backup plan if he doesn't end up being Mr. Wonderful. We also discussed my "backup plan" yesterday. She mentioned that I didn't meet her emotional needs and he did. Why can't I understand that?

I said, I do understand that. She has called me ugly over the years. She asked how long has it been since she said that. I agreed that it has been a few years, but she never said anything to the contrary. The only time she has called me handsome was the night she "sent" me out to a bar so she could have her online lovefest with Mr. Wonderful. She said that night "You are quite a handsome man. You have to wear this to the bar." and handed me my wedding ring. (I went to McDonald's with the laptop and copied her chat.)

I told her that I met the other girl after staying up all night watching her flirt online with her lover. I slept in my clothes and got up early to watch her affair (more to copy the transcripts for documentation than a morbid curiosity) the next morning. I know I hadn't shaved, brushed my teeth, changed clothes, put in my contacts, or anything else. I don't know if I had even brushed my hair that morning when I realized the store was about to close. I went out to get the dog food and cat food that my wife called me to remind me of while she was flirting with boyfriend. I saw this girl and, even though I was looking my worst, she was attracted to me and enthusiastically agreed to a date. I told my wife yesterday that in 5 minutes of seeing this other girl, she fulfilled an emotional need that my wife hasn't met in years. I agreed that is extremely powerful. 

One reason I called to ask the other girl out is to see if I was imagining that she was indeed attracted to me. Her immediate acceptance of a date confirmed it. However, I did call her the next day and told her I shouldn't date while I am still married. I have not contacted her further. I told my wife yesterday that she doesn't know what Phantom Boyfriend looks like (supposedly). I know this girl is HOT! 

The difference is that I am not pursuing her, even though she is ready, willing, and able. I did not tell my wife that this other girl is my "backup plan". I will call her and ask her out again at some point if the marriage does indeed continue on the current course and end. But it will be after I have tried my best. I will have a clear conscience knowing that I did my best to save our marriage, even though my wife has already thrown it in the garbage.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> It just hit me....





HurtinginTN said:


> I just realized....


By golly I think he's getting it!!! 

I see the epic tearfest I recommended may have done some good?

You can unbuckle your seat belt now.

Welcome back to the land of the living... Hope the time in your W's foggy funland wasn't too tramatic...

I will be your tour guide for the remainder of your trip through "OMG, WTF, This B*tch is crazy, get me off this fuc*king ride".

lol.


----------



## HurtinginTN

lol The crying does have therpeutic benefits. The laughter does as well. Yes, it has been a traumatic ride. Are you sure about the seatbelt? Those other rides don't sound like too much fun either. lol


----------



## paramore

Great idea hurt, good for you to not act on your emotional needs with this other girl, I would suggest if it ends, that you give yourself time to heal, and not make this girl the rebound girl. If my marriage ends, I don't think I will ever date again....but on the other hand if I do? I can't be fair to another man by making them the rebound guy, it's not fair to them. I will tell them at an appropriate time why my last relationship ended.


----------



## HurtinginTN

I know. It was very flattering, but I shouldn't ask her out for quite a while. By then, I'm sure she will be taken. She was quite attractive and seemed very nice. 

But there are plenty of fish in the sea. It has been soooo long since I've been fishing, I guess I had forgotten that.


----------



## calif_hope

*Deadline*

HurtininTen

I don't think she respects you enough to believe your ultimatum that your marriage is over if she goes to Colorado to meet the A** H***. 

Your the insurance poilcy, the safety net, the fall back...just in case guy.

I think you should set a deadline, and I would suggest one in the next couple of days, don't draw this out too long.

Then start conversations with her that you assume that she is going so you want to start dividing your property between the two of you....creat some lists, spreadsheets.

Tell her that you have evidence of his criminal record and his living arrangement and other issues coupled with her obsessive mental issues - that no Tennasee judge would grant her primary custody, that the are not leaving Tennasee. 

You can ask your internet provider for a record of her time on the internet playing spades with the A** Hole** - shows her negleting her chidlren. 

So for the sake of the children that you two will have to figure out how she will travel from Colorado to Tennasee for visitation (cheaper for her to travel than them).

She likes the game imagery so much, tell her you see yourself as the noble night with the quest and duty to protect the inocent children from their mother who is possessed by the evil ones - the evil ones who gain their power by causing betrayal and pain and who wish to damage the souls and inocense of the children. After the evil ones consume the spirt of the possessed mother they toss her away in the days trash and move on to their next victum.


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## 827Aug

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You can unbuckle your seat belt now.


I wouldn't recommend that yet! There still may be an unexpected turn, loop de loop, or waterfall. Infidelity ain't Disney World. It's been three very long years, and I still go for wild rides. Hang on for the ride if you are brave enough to release the seat belt.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> You can unbuckle your seat belt now..





HurtinginTN said:


> Are you sure about the seatbelt?





827Aug said:


> I wouldn't recommend that yet! There still may be an unexpected turn, loop de loop, or waterfall.


lol. I just meant that the danger of catastrophic injury is greatly decreased now that his head is out of his a$$. lol. He can see what's coming now. Her reality should be less jaw dropping, & more head shaking now. lol.


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## HurtinginTN

Disclosure is complete. The kids know. She was playing with him on Spadester last night after agreeing to no contact the night before. His screen name was "Teach_Me". They think they are clever with him constantly changing screen names lately. The only problem is the game has a ranking system. New players start with one club and progress to 4 spades. Any one club player that follows her from table to table is him. I got on and asked "What is it you want to learn?" "How about how to make the sandwich she is eating?" I had just made her a sub sandwich. "Answer my calls and I'll teach you a few things."

I proceeded to call him and go upstairs where she was. Of course, I got his voice mail. I left a message in front of her. "You still refuse to accept my calls. You'll accept my wife's calls and play spades with her, but you won't talk to me. Answer my calls and I'll teach you a thing or two, MF." 

I went back downstairs to get a drink (Coca-cola plain) with the intention of coming back up and discussing the no contact. She followed me down and asked my daughter if she had let me use her laptop. She said yes. My wife said, "Well, don't let Daddy use it anymore. He was mean and rude."

I said, "Yeah, to your boyfriend." It slipped out, so I told the kids. Mommy has a boyfriend. She was very angry that I told them. I told her that she was the one that brought the discussion in front of them. Also, she is the one having the affair. There was a lot of crying. Everyone but her. 

She told the kids that we are separating. She didn't want me to come home tonight. I told her I am going to come home tonight, Thursday night, and Friday night. We'll discuss things this weekend. She wants me to move out. I told her that is not going to happen. I told her we both need to think long and hard the next few days and we'll discuss the logistics this weekend.


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## Jellybeans

Ouch. Tough night. Do not leave your home. If she wants her boyfriend, she can leave. I repeat, *DO NOT AT ALL LEAVE YOUR HOME*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for Phantom A--hole dude--stop calling him. You are not able to control their affair. He is not worth your time. In fact, neither is she. She has zero respect for you. She has zero remorse. It's disgusting, actually.

I repeat one more time DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES LEAVE YOUR HOME. You need to be on your best behavior, from a legal standpoint cause she could definitely get a laywer and take out a court order asking you to be removed from the home saying you are harassing her and her _friend_. It has happened before. In fact, at this point, I would see a lawyer yourself and ask for everything in writing that you want. You can cite "adultery" as the reason for the split. She does NOT have the best interest of your children right now.

No kidding.


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## paramore

Nope, she's the one carrying on, SHE needs to leave. She is the one choosing to put the family in turmoil, she can feel the consequences of her actions. The no contact is simple, DONT TALK TO THE DOUCHE!!! lol. For instance, I was playing my WoW with my husband on Saturday, and OM whisps me to see how I was doing. I said we can't talk, I told you no contact, logged off and told my husband immediately what happened. He wasn't upset, didn't seem like it really affected him much, but it still said something that I told him immediately that the guy tried to see how I was doing.

If she's got any decency left in her, which she might, as I don't know your wife, she will at some point realize what she's doing. Unfortunately you can't force the No Contact, she has to do that herself, and unfortunately it's probably gonna take her leaving Hurt, to have her realize that she could lose her house, her kids, her FAMILY. Like you say she's in a fog, maybe her coming to the brink of losing everything will pull her into reality quicker.

Trust me, the fog can be powerful, I have been there.


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## gasunrise

Stop calling him, don't give him any ammunition to be able to say that you are harassing him. He's not man enough to answer the phone and he sure doesn't have what it takes to call back and talk to you. 

*DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOUSE!!* You are the one that works, not her, she can't afford the payments so you would be forced to make the payments as well as pay for somewhere for yourself. Not a viable option and it would quickly cause increased tension for yourself which would filter over to the children. She needs to go, she is the one with her eyes set elsewhere, help her pack.

Hire an attorney, have him/her draw up a separation agreement for her to see. You have got to protect yourself and your assets from her. If she has access to your financial accounts, remove her access. Take her name off credit cards as well.


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## Jellybeans

Those voice recordings could be used against you too so please take that into account as well. 

This is getting ugly fast. Please please protect yourself.


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## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> Those voice recordings could be used against you too so please take that into account as well.


Yeah, probably a dumb move. I seem to be full of those.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Yeah, probably a dumb move. I seem to be full of those.


Stop reading the script brother.


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## paramore

We all make mistakes Hurt, just chalk it up as a learning experience, and try to stop doing them. One day at a time.


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## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Stop reading the script brother.


Last night certainly enhanced the Jabba the Hut image in the script. I believe that may very well have pushed Plan A past possibility. Those crying kids are tearing me up today. I'm back to the "I can hardly walk" stage. I have so much work to do and I can't concentrate. 

My son said it's like a horror movie turned real. My daughter did crack me up. My wife took our oldest upstairs to talk to her one on one. My 9 year old looked at me and said, "Daddy, Momma's not playing spades." I looked at her and said, "OK". She said again, Momma's not playing spades. I said, you mean you're not going to let her play spades anymore. She said, "No, right now she's not playing spades." I said, I know. She kept on and said what do you not understand? "You can get on Spades with her name and tell him you want to break up." 

I like the way she thinks.


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## Eli-Zor

Tell your children your wife has a hidden phone, with all eyes on her hiding it will not be so easy. 

Do not leave the house , ever, no compromise, no maybe , no perhaps. No talk of divorce shatter her fantasy by remaining put , she leaves and goes to her brother then you swing onto a hard plan B.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

Eli-Zor said:


> Tell your children your wife has a hidden phone, with all eyes on her hiding it will not be so easy.
> 
> Do not leave the house , ever, no compromise, no maybe , no perhaps. No talk of divorce shatter her fantasy by remaining put , she leaves and goes to her brother then you swing onto a hard plan B.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I did tell them about the phone. I told them that is the only reason she bought the phone, to call her boyfriend. They have wondered many nights where Mommy is. We'll put them to bed and she'll go out to call Romeo. Several nights, my daughter and/or my son would get back up and look for her. They had asked several times where she was. I told them last night that she was talking to her boyfriend on those nights. 

My daughter did want to call him. I said he won't answer my calls. She said to use Mommy's phone. I told her Mommy hides her phone. 

Stay put and Plan A still? Only switch to Plan B if/when she leaves? That sounds like a better plan.


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## gasunrise

HurtinginTN said:


> My daughter did want to call him. I said he won't answer my calls. She said to use Mommy's phone. I told her Mommy hides her phone.


At a guess, within short order the kids will be able to help with the location of the phone, they are going to be watching her very closely.


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## Eli-Zor

A few pointers: give the children the name of the OM , if they ever meet him they then know who he is, never refer to him as the boyfriend , something like " the affair man" is more descriptive , use that term to her face and when in conversations with others. Do not degrade into a position where you are arguing with her, run the 180 in parallel and try this; next time she goes out to talk to the OM she does not take the car, keep the keys on you and lock her out of the house. Ignore her when she calls or knocks on the door , if she calls the cops say she told you she left to be with her affair man and you did not hear her return, if they challenge you say she did she has the phone she called him on.. Be sweet as pie and don't aggravate the cops. If the neighbours ask be calm and tell them of the affair, you cannot stop the affair you can make it unpleasant and difficult to sustain. If she asks for separation the answer is you will oppose it unless she signs over full custody of the children to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

A few pointers: give the children the name of the OM , if they ever meet him they then know who he is, never refer to him as the boyfriend , something like " the affair man" is more descriptive , use that term to her face and when in conversations with others. Do not degrade into a position where you are arguing with her, run the 180 in parallel and try this; next time she goes out to talk to the OM she does not take the car, keep the keys on you and lock her out of the house. Ignore her when she calls or knocks on the door , if she calls the cops say she told you she left to be with her affair man and you did not hear her return, if they challenge you say she did she has the phone she called him on.. Be sweet as pie and don't aggravate the cops. If the neighbours ask be calm and tell them of the affair, you cannot stop the affair you can make it unpleasant and difficult to sustain. If she asks for separation the answer is you will oppose it unless she signs over full custody of the children to you. The signed custody is put in place before any further dialog occurs .

This is early days the script says she has to leave home and miss the children and your plan A before she affair starts hurting her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Eli knows what he's talking about. Women have to respect their men. Show her that you respect yourself too much to put up with her crap.


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## Jellybeans

A woman will not love a man she doesn't respect.

That is a fact.

TN, you are spinning your wheels if you don't put your foot down. Right now she doesn't believe you have the guts to do anything about your situation.


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## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> A woman will not love a man she doesn't respect.
> 
> That is a fact.
> 
> TN, you are spinning your wheels if you don't put your foot down. Right now she doesn't believe you have the guts to do anything about your situation.



Well, she certainly doesn't respect me or there would not be a 9 month affair. Put my foot down? I suppose that is what I was doing last night by interrupting their little game of spades. The kids know now. Both families know (Actually, all 3 families know). Her friend knows. There's not much more putting my foot down except divorce, that I see.

Eli's advice about staying put in the home and not giving in to her wanting me to move out will be putting my foot down, I suppose. Refusing to leave my home and children over her affair will be putting my foot down. 

I have started to respect myself more lately. I guess that is a step in the right direction. Today has been a very hard day. However, the past week I've been pretty strong. I guess a step backwards isn't so bad as long as there are more steps forward. In my own growth, that is.


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## calif_hope

Yes, time to put your foot down.....

Is she on the mortgage the deed, really does not matter...

DO NOT AGREE TO LEAVE, ITS YOUR FAMILY HOME AND IF SHE DOES NOT WANT TO BE PART OF THE FAMILY SHE LEAVES. ONLY CIRCUMSTANCE FOR YOU TO LEAVE IS WHEN THE KIDS GO WITH YOU.

Have some advice for you, your wife is out of her mind and not rational..people in that state can be very, very dangerous.......get your self one of those pocket recorders, low cost at Radio Shack, Office Depot, Walmart......keep it on you at all times....record your conversations with her when you two are alone......man, *all she has to do is call the cops and tell a couple of lies and your out of the house.*

My cousin had a recording of his wife yelling at him that she was going to call the cops and accuse him of physical violence (actually 3 recordings from different confratations)....two days latter when he wouldn't give her the keys to his car so she could go out clubbing with her girlfriends and the OM, she tore her shirt collar and called 911.....

He played the recording to the cops, and they arrested her for filing a false police report and other things........he didn't bail her out either, she spent the weekend (none of her NEW so called friend came to her rescue, none of her old friends and family would not either because they didn't suport her cheating and knew why she was in jail....my cousin e-mailed everyone)...she had to do 500 hours of community service and pay a $100 fine to reimburse the county for the meals she eaten during her jail time.......blew the fog away real quick!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

calif_hope said:


> your wife is out of her mind and not rational..people in that state can be very, very dangerous.......get your self one of those pocket recorders, low cost at Radio Shack, Office Depot, Walmart......keep it on you at all times....record your conversations with her when you two are alone......man, *all she has to do is call the cops and tell a couple of lies and your out of the house.*


I couldn't agree more. Now you've begun to see how she thinks and the levels of fuct up going on in her head, I suspect you know it's quite possible she would do this... Follow calif's advice!.



calif_hope said:


> My cousin had a recording of his wife yelling at him that she was going to call the cops and accuse him of physical violence (actually 3 recordings from different confratations)....two days latter when he wouldn't give her the keys to his car so she could go out clubbing with her girlfriends and the OM, she tore her shirt collar and called 911.....
> 
> He played the recording to the cops, and they arrested her for filing a false police report and other things........he didn't bail her out either, she spent the weekend (none of her NEW so called friend came to her rescue, none of her old friends and family would not either because they didn't suport her cheating and knew why she was in jail....my cousin e-mailed everyone)...she had to do 500 hours of community service and pay a $100 fine to reimburse the county for the meals she eaten during her jail time.......blew the fog away real quick!


lol. awesome story dude! good lesson there!


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## Jellybeans

Yeah seriously, TN. You are reaching crisis levels at this opint. I know you don't think your wife is capable or anything nutty but I have seen over and over again peple going through a divoce/separation the possibjility of being exposed (an affair) and losing everything will do ANYTHING to not be the bad guy.

Your wife has zero respect for you. Putitng your foot down is not just calling some random Spades guy and saying "hey I know about you --leave my wife alone!" YOu are FAR past that. 9 months is almost a yr. Someone coulda had a baby in that time. SOmeone could taken thei rlast semester in college and graduated in that time. 

YOU NEED to NOT leave your home (it will put you at a massive disadvantage in a divorce/separation) and you need to start filing papers at minimum. SHe is capable of anything at this point. Be careful.

I know someone, a woman, who emailed the OW saying how she knew she was boffing her husband and ya know wha the outcome of that was? OW filed harassment charges against her and when the time came to go to court...guess where the husband was? Standing on the OW's side, defending HER, not his wife. The wife had to follow a protection order filed/and accepted by a court of law and also got charged w/ a misdemeanor. This is no joke. It was an affair that started just like this and now they are years into it w/ the divorce only now going through. True story.

Don't be that guy. (or rather, that woman).


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## paramore

Here's a suggestion for you, if you can get her to leave, call a local law enforcement to have them come supervise, don't tell her you are gonna do it, either have her things packed, have the sheriff show up as wife is getting home, or have her pack her things with the sheriff there, that way you have a witness and she can't say he did this/that to me to get me to leave. If she starts stuff, then you have a COP as a witness.


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## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> I know someone, a woman, who emailed the OW saying how she knew she was boffing her husband and ya know wha the outcome of that was? OW filed harassment charges against her and when the time came to go to court...guess where the husband was? Standing on the OW's side, defending HER, not his wife. The wife had to follow a protection order filed/and accepted by a court of law and also got charged w/ a misdemeanor. This is no joke. It was an affair that started just like this and now they are years into it w/ the divorce only now going through. True story.


I can't believe that! How could a court convict someone of that? I should file a harassment claim on him for disrupting our family. lol I know, I know. It is more her fault than his.


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## turnera

Just start carrying a voice recorder in your pocket.


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## gasunrise

Check with an attorney, some states allow the LS to sue the OM/OW for "alienation of affection". This is another reason to document everything, in the eyes of the court if its not on paper it didn't happen. Get a calendar with enough space to write on, document, document, document everything. You want to be able to pull that out if you get into court or into mediation and read from it that such and so happened on this date (ie, a phone call to the OM that lasted XXX minutes), etc. No more kid gloves, no more playing fair.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Alienation of affection laws only exist in Hawaii, Utah, South Dakota, Mississippi, New Mexico, Illinois and North Carolina


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## HurtinginTN

She goes for a walk to call him if the weather is good. She goes for a drive to call him if not. I listened to 90 minutes of rain on the roof of the car this morning on the way to work. The "voice activated" recorder is pretty sensitive. It could also be called a "rain on the rooftop activated" recorder. lol

I'll get a smaller one to carry with me for other conversations.


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## paramore

Woot!!! If I had the actual proof, and not accidentally deleted it, I could have done that LOL, it looks like my state is one of the alienation of affection laws.


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## HurtinginTN

It's over. I give up. I found the phone last night. 9 hours + of calls. Data transfers (I assume texting) both ways. Voice mail that I was able to record. Only on his side. "I love you. I miss you. I want to spend every second of every day for the rest of my life with you. I can't wait to meet you and hear your heart beat and feel your soft skin." 

I'm done.

I changed the pin number, but she still figured out a way to change the password. I screwed up again and played the tape for her. She pulled my trick of pulling the modem and went out to call him. She got the password changed even though I had changed the pin number. Last time, I changed the password, but didn't change the pin.

I packed her bag and left it on the front porch. She had an extra key and came in. She was mad that I wrinkled her clothes. I grabbed them and wrinkled them some more and threw them all over the room. I did help pick them up and even sprayed the shirts to get the wrinkles out.

I give. Uncle. I quit. Why try?


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## turnera

HurtinginTN said:


> I did help pick them up and even sprayed the shirts to get the wrinkles out.


*WHY?!!!!!*

No wonder she does what she wants. You're covered in mud from being a doormat for so long.

Your next step is to contact a lawyer to get legally separated so she can't spend any more money cheating on you.

Maybe then you'll look more attractive.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> I did help pick them up and even sprayed the shirts to get the wrinkles out.


Double *WHY?*

If you are done, be done. Stop playing these games. But back it up with ACTIONS.

She has not respected you for a very long time now, TN.

Get a lawyer and draw up some papers. Like yesterday.


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## HurtinginTN

I had told her the affair was emotional abuse. After I threw the clothes around, she said, "Don't you call this abuse?" The spraying the clothes was more defensive than out of kindness. I shouldn't be throwing any fuel on the fire that could come back and bite me in the butt in divorce proceedings.


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## Jellybeans

Exactly. Time for you to be the adult and stop acting like she is. Take a stand.


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## turnera

Telling her the affair is emotional abuse makes you look like a 9 year old.

If it comes up again, just say 'I won't accept a cheater for a wife. I deserve better than that.' 

And not backing up your own actions after you packed her bad made you look EXTREMELY weak. It looked like a gesture from a weak, desperate man with no self esteem.

Either accept the cheating or tell her to get out of your house til she's ready to be a wife.


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## HurtinginTN

She's on the deed. I can't kick her out without a legal separation or divorce.


----------



## Jellybeans

So file. 



turnera said:


> And not backing up your own actions after you packed her bad made you look EXTREMELY weak. It looked like a gesture from a weak, desperate man with no self esteem.
> .


I agree. You ahve stated plenty times you don't ike her affair/want it going on yet she continues to carry it on. All talk and no action o your part.

Her being on the deed does makes things trickier. But what you do is you get in touch with a lawyer and see what your options. DO NOT move out of your home. You explain to the lawyer/judge about her behavior, how she has a boyfriend and it's having an adverse effect on the kids/home environment. 

This is why it is SO important for you not to throw her thing sout, call and harass OM, etc. Cause she can use it against you. Get it???


----------



## HurtinginTN

I was mistaken in my earlier post. I was thinking 9 hours. I looked back. I left off a digit. It is *19+* hours on the phone. Adding up the actual calls that were on the phone only total to 7 hours and 35 minutes. I suppose she learned how to delete the calls from the phone log or it only carries so many. The 7 hours shows almost daily contact. I can't imagine where the other 12 hours come into play.

I have an appointment with a pastor of my boss's church on Monday. It is 5 minutes from the office. I don't have much choice but to suck it up until I get the funds for an attorney. As much as I want it to be over right now, I can't find a way at this point. 

I used to say I would be a millionaire at 40. I was well on track at 25, before I got married, bought waaaay too much house, too much car, too much stuff, too much jewelry, too many paintings, etc., etc. All to try to please a woman that has thrown our relationship in the toilet. Well, I'm 40 and in debt up to my eyeballs, totally broke, and can't scratch up enough cash to get out of a miserable marriage. Not quite where I always thought I would be at this point in life.


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## HurtinginTN

OK. I have been given a great blessing by a friend. He was correct in saying that a makeover would be a good thing. I believe this would fit into the "get sexy" part of the 180. I have a $500 gift specifically for new clothes. Also, he wants to know how much it would take to get my head above water financially. I will work on that part this weekend. I was already crying a lot today, but that makes me really tear up that someone would be that concerned for me and extremely nice.

I have never been good with buying clothes. For one, I am color blind, so I am horrible at picking things that match. I am certainly not up on styles, etc. I have an appointment on Tuesday to get my hair cut. I'm just going to tell her to do her best to make me look sexy. Tough job, lol.

Any suggestions on clothing? Business casual is the normal attire for work. I have been wanting to go country dancing for a while like I used to waaaaay back when I was single. Maybe some ideas that would go good with some black boots in the closet I may be able to get the layers of dust of off.

I have absolutely no idea on where to go, what to buy, etc. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

And no, I am not going to try to do this to "win" her back from Romeo. The offer and my desire are both to change things to uplift ME. I've spent 13 years trying to impress her, to absolutely no avail. It's time to do something for ME. 

I want to make the best of his tremendously generous gift.


----------



## paramore

I guess I personally am a jeans and tshirt kind of girl, and I always wear my cb boots lol. What I did was get all new jeans that actually fit and made me look really good, and I bought some slightly dressier shirts, as I said, I usually just wear t shirts, and I bought some new underthings, and some very well let's just say dressier t's that emphasized my assets really well lol. Just walking through a store knowing I looked amazing did quite a number on my confidence that day. Do you have a sister or sis in law close by that could help you buy some new clothes?


----------



## rome2012

HurtinginTN said:


> Also, he wants to know how much it would take to get my head above water financially.


I'd need your friend's phone number  ....

That's an awesome friend you have there !!!!!!!

:smthumbup:


----------



## paramore

it's really good to have friends, I am seeing now who my true friends are...


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## Jellybeans

Um, can I also have your benefactor wardrobing friend's number? 

How old are you if you don't mind me asking? What kind of clothes do you like?

Get some updated staples: a nice pair of slacks that you can wear out or to work that fit well, a polo t-shirt type deal, a long sleeved nice shirt you can wear out, and of course, new shoes.


----------



## the guy

Hurt,
I to am bad with style and cloths, I just start looking thru the Sunday paper and look for stores that have the style that fits me. 

You can look thru some mags. but alot of it doesn't fit for me. the main thing is just going out and getting a fresh new look.

One more thing I found is that the employees at most clothing stores love to help customers instead of folding cloths all day.
So just speak up, I like to find a women employee,close to my age that can better relate to my style.

Good luck on the change.


----------



## Jellybeans

If you are at a loss, find a stylish looking sales woman or gay sales guy.


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## HurtinginTN

rome2012 said:


> I'd need your friend's phone number  ....
> 
> That's an awesome friend you have there !!!!!!!
> 
> :smthumbup:


I agree! I have cried almost as much from his kindness and generosity as I have about the affair this weekend. It's amazing that someone would care that much about my welfare.


----------



## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> How old are you if you don't mind me asking? What kind of clothes do you like?


I'm 40. I've never cared too much about clothes. I've always thought that what is on the inside is much better than what's on the outside. For 14 years (13 married and 1 dating), I have totally depended on my wife to pick out my clothes. Being color blind doesn't help. She saw me looking at men's fashion stuff over the weekend and offered to help me pick out the clothes. I told her that I need to work on my independence, and that is one area that I have been totally dependent on her for too long. It might be a good time together, so it might not hurt. I'm still debating that offer.



the guy said:


> Hurt,
> I to am bad with style and cloths, I just start looking thru the Sunday paper and look for stores that have the style that fits me.
> 
> One more thing I found is that the employees at most clothing stores love to help customers instead of folding cloths all day.
> So just speak up, I like to find a women employee,close to my age that can better relate to my style.
> 
> Good luck on the change.


Thanks! I don't know what style fits me. I need to figure that out, I suppose. I did look at some stores this weekend, but I didn't pick anything out. I also in the past have sought the help of female employees.





Jellybeans said:


> If you are at a loss, find a stylish looking sales woman or gay sales guy.


Now, would the gay guy pick out things that look good to gay men? Or do the same things look good to gay men and women? lol What was that show "Queer eye for the straight guy"?


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## turnera

I'm a casual slacks, button-down shirt, and vest kind of girl. You can't go wrong with Ralph Lauren clothes.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

re; clothes. Depends on what you look like chief. 

If ur color blind, no problem. Blacks, Greys & Browns/Tans + Jeans. 

I'd stay away from Raplh Lauren & similar high end stores your $500 isn't going far there... maybe 3-4 outfits... 

start here... tips & stuff


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## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> re; clothes. Depends on what you look like chief.


Well, I currently look better than I have in many years. The weight loss from the loss of appetite encouraged me to start working out, especially abs. I have an emerging 6-pack from my several hours per day crunches (at the desk, in the car, at home, etc.) 

This weekend, the kids went to stay at the grandparents. We had a decent night together. However, at time to go to bed, she said she was going to call him. My first reaction was to go to a bar and get totally s---faced. Then I said, "Hell no. I'm going to use this rage in a good way. I hit the gym harder than I have in a long time." 

I'm no Mr. Olympia by any stretch of the imagination. I'm pretty skinny after losing all my fat. My biceps respond better than any other body part and are growing nicely. Maybe I need to find clothes that show off these assets.


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## paramore

That's what I did!!! LOL, showin off them curves, do it, it'll do wonders for how you feel.


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## HurtinginTN

In trying to control my angry outbursts, I have been working very hard on my anger issues. However, I am discovering that as I control my anger, the intense pain is overwhelming. This weekend while the kids were gone, it hit me like a Mack truck. We were upstairs and I went downstairs and bawled like a baby. After a bit, she came down and "caught me in the act." Crying like a baby, that is. I know I'm not supposed to cry in front of her. I guess I should have gone on a walk. 

She sat down and said she can handle me throwing her clothes around the room better than she can handle me crying. She said the crying shows her that I care. I said, "Yeah, but it also makes me look like a weak cry-baby." She said she didn't see me as a cry baby, just a man that is hurting. Of course, that wasn't enough to stop hurting me. It was shortly after that when she went to call him. 

We didn't talk much Sunday. I took the kids bowling and to the park for a few hours. The time alone while they were playing gave me too much time to think about things. I didn't want to cry in front of the kids so I allowed the anger to overcome the pain. I came home angry. She talked about him and I had another angry outburst, cussing, etc. 

Am I just crazy? Am I mentally ill? Why is there still a part of me that wants her? Most of me. I'm going to see a counsellor on Wednesday. Maybe that will help. This emotional roller coaster ride is killing me. We had a good day Saturday and it looked like there was a glimmer of hope. I have had a goatee for years because she liked it. I shaved it off Saturday. She actually told me I looked handsome. The goatee detracted from my eyes and without it my eyes "popped". We had a nice dinner and played some games. I'm sure she called him when I went to get dinner, but I didn't mention that. It was when she went to call him after she was too tired to continue playing games with me that I lost it. 

It's like I let my guard down a little and she hits me with a knockout punch. Sorry I have rambled again. I just don't know what to do. I feel better when I am working the Plan A and 180. Then, I get a little glimmer of hope that things might work out. Then, BAMM, this SOB pops back to the forefront.


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## paramore

I have those days too Hurt, things are going well, and BOOM, he throws me a curve punch. For instance, he told me this morning that he tried to call first EA, because he wanted to explain what I had told her through fb email, the latest EA, and other things. It HURTS. I don't understand why he "needs" to call her, just let her go. Said he was gonna tell me, as the phone call happened on friday. The EA guy in my case tried to contact me via game last night, and I put him on ignore list, so now he CAN"T contact me, I told him straightaway. Umm dontcha think THEN would have been a good time to tell me? Anyways, I am there with ya hurt.

You could be mentally ill, such as depression, but you can overcome that. Crazy, I highly doubt. Remember, the angry outbursts are only gonna hurt. I made the mistake of that, i think a little over a week ago? Can't remember. Saturday night, wasn't angry, no yelling, just mostly me talking. Anyways, just take it one day at a time. I get those glimmers too, then just to get slapped again. The difference I know what I want my outcome to be.


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## alphaomega

Bud, you really need to read "no more mr nice guy", and "hold onto your n.u.t.s" for starters. Of course she doesnt respect you. You wrinkled up her clothes, then ironed them for her. Wtf? She knows all your threats are empty. And another thing! Wtf is with the phone calls?!! She actually tells you shes calling the OM, and when? And you accept this? Seriously? Im not trying to be mean, but rather im trying to offer you some advise. No amount of clothes are going to work for you until you have a spine to keep then on your back.

Its awesome that your working out! Build up that bulk, get cut, get more desirable. This is all good stuff for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> re; clothes. Depends on what you look like chief.
> 
> If ur color blind, no problem. Blacks, Greys & Browns/Tans + Jeans.
> 
> I'd stay away from Raplh Lauren & similar high end stores your $500 isn't going far there... maybe 3-4 outfits...
> 
> start here... tips & stuff


 IMO, a man who takes the time to buy a few high-quality items is more impressive than one who fills a wardrobe at Sears. Besides, I can get my DH an $80 Polo shirt on sale for $35 if I watch the sale racks.


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## turnera

HurtinginTN said:


> We had a nice dinner and played some games. I'm sure she called him when I went to get dinner, but I didn't mention that. It was when she went to call him after she was too tired to continue playing games with me that I lost it.


It is perfectly acceptable for you to confront her when she so blatantly goes to contact OM after getting her family fix from you. 

Just don't do it in ANGER, ok?

Each time you see her go out and call him, be waiting for her to come back and state "I will not accept another man in my marriage. If you want to be with him, I will help you pack your clothes."

Make it hard on her to continue this.

Cut the Internet. Change the phone plan. FIGHT for your marriage.


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## HurtinginTN

alphaomega said:


> Bud, you really need to read "no more mr nice guy", and "hold onto your n.u.t.s" for starters.
> 
> Its awesome that your working out! Build up that bulk, get cut, get more desirable. This is all good stuff for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just looked at the No More Mr. Nice Guy website. How did they make that survey based on me without my knowledge or consent? Shouldn't I get a royalty? lol At least I got a high score on something. OK, instead of waiting until I finish the other books I'm reading, I'll start that one in conjunction. Maybe even put the others on hold. Too much trying to change to quickly. It really sucks to find out just how ****ty you really are all of a sudden.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

turnera said:


> IMO, a man who takes the time to buy a few high-quality items is more impressive than one who fills a wardrobe at Sears. Besides, I can get my DH an $80 Polo shirt on sale for $35 if I watch the sale racks.


Sears, lol. I take for granted I have some style/good eye... I shop the clearance racks and TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, etc... I still wear Ralph Laren, Armani, Kenneth Cole, etc, etc, etc.. I just see the point in actually paying retail prices.. MALL is a four letter word. lol.


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## HurtinginTN

paramore said:


> The difference I know what I want my outcome to be.


What do you want your outcome to be? I assume you mean that your marriage works out. That is what I want the outcome to be also. However, your husband seems to be much more willing to work on your relationship than my wife is willing to work on ours.


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## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I shop the clearance racks and TJ Maxx, Marshalls, Ross, etc... I still wear Ralph Laren, Armani, Kenneth Cole, etc, etc, etc.. I just see the point in actually paying retail prices.. MALL is a four letter word. lol.



I agree. I walked through Kohl's and Ross this weekend. The 90% off rack caught my eye immediately. I almost bought a couple of shirts. Then I thought, maybe they are ugly and that's the reason they are on the clearance rack. I didn't buy anything because of my extreme doubts on buying something that will look good. I need external confirmation.

One example is that a lady at work had made some bookmarks. She had several and was passing them out. She asked me if I wanted one. I picked what I thought was the most manly looking one (blue and white). She looked at me real funny and said, "Really?" I was like "Yeah, why not?" She said "Pink and Purple?" It must have been a real light shade of pink. Anyway, that is probably how my outfits would work out if I picked them.


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## turnera

Oh, Hurt, all you have to do is go to a good store and ask some cute sales girl to help you pick out coordinating clothes. It'll make their day.

fwiw, my DH, back before I gained weight and still let him buy clothes for me, would go to the stores and just pick out the entire outfit on the mannequins - that way, he knew they went together!


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## HurtinginTN

Now the mannequin outfit is a good idea! I did venture over to the mall for my wife's birthday last year. I bought a blouse at Macy's. She said she was impressed that I bought her clothes. It was the first time in at least a decade. However, it is still in the closet in the Macy's bag, so it obviously wasn't a very good choice. lol That is the reason it has been so long.


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## HurtinginTN

turnera said:


> Oh, Hurt, all you have to do is go to a good store and ask some cute sales girl to help you pick out coordinating clothes. It'll make their day.


Whose day will it make? lol I did look for a cute sales girl when I was looking around this weekend. However, there weren't any sales people at all that I saw. I must have hit break time or something.


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## turnera

That's why you have to go to the 'better' stores - meaning non-discount outlets. The ones that still pay to have salespeople.


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## Jellybeans

How are you holding up TN?


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## HurtinginTN

It's been a very rough few days. She told me of a plan this weekend that really set me off. I have had several angry outbursts, which have not helped the situation. I was able to get the voice activated recorder set up in the car last night before her "drive to the store." I listened to some of it after she got home and I thought she was in bed. She must have suspected something because she found me listening to it. She offered a deal. She'll agree to absolutely no contact with him for the rest of April if I'll give her the tape. Listening to the tape could only hurt me, as bad as I wanted to listen to the whole thing to see exactly what is going on. It could only reduce our chances at recovery. I didn't know if it would even be admissable in divorce court. They don't seem to give a flip about affairs. I traded the tape for her cell phone battery and a promise to not contact him for the rest of the month. She called him in my presence and told him there will be no contact until at least May 1.

I guess a month of no contact is better than every day and night calls. I told her I don't believe her. We'll see.


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## paramore

Our outcome if our marriage works out Hurt? That we can start over, fresh and brand new with the tools necessary to never ever ever let it get to this point again, both realizing that it'll never be the way it used to be. At this point Hurt, he doesn't know what he wants, he said to me he doesn't want the pressure of making this decision, he can't handle the pressure, he IS in a serious depression, which I believe the counseler he is going to start seeing is gonna tell him that after an evaluation. 

He doesn't want to make any decisions in his current state, fair enough. He needs to get himself back to where he is happy/healthy again, but this is the kicker, he wants to get himself back to the same person he was when he was happy, but then turns around and says he'll never be the same again. ???? lol I told him while I am basically the same now, I am a heck of alot smarter and with her faults that have new boundaries and limits, so not exactly the same. He has serious doubts if he can get there.

He actually texted me this yesterday Hurt, I'd rather you hate me for what I've done, than love me for something I can't ever be again...Bleh lol Hot and Cold, that Katy Perry song plays in my head all the time when I think of my husband lol.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> She must have suspected something because she found me listening to it. *She offered a deal. * She'll agree to absolutely no contact with him f*or the rest of April *if I'll give her the tape. Listening to the tape could only hurt me, as bad as I wanted to listen to the whole thing to see exactly what is going on. It could only reduce our chances at recovery. *I traded the tape for her cell phone battery and a promise to not contact him for the rest of the month. She called him in my presence and told him there will be no contact until at least May 1*


*WHYYYYYY did you do this???* 
You don't "make deals" with someone who is actively stepping out on you! 

TN, you are killing me. So you gave up something that you NEEDED to hear for yourself and your own dignity so she could, what?...not talk to him for 25 more days and then she'll be in touch w/ him anyway? You basically told her, sure, walk all over me a little more and I am good w/ you just not talking to him for a few days and resuming this BS affair again no matter what. 

Um, do you see how ludicrous that is???

It's time for me to virtually smack you across the head. Sorry. But it's true. You have NO respect for yourself. Neither does she. You are spinning your wheels. Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh but you need to really start seeing your situation for what it is. She is going to continue to play you because, quite frankly, she sees you will never do anything about it. So she gets to her her family facade intact while she carries on w/ another guy and not ever face any consequences.


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## turnera

Yes, but still verify NC. She could have emailed him right after the phone call.

fwiw, I'd put the VAR back in the car, just in a different place.


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## paramore

no no no no no no!!!!! LOL, Hurt, you shouldn't have done that!!!!


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## HurtinginTN

There are multiple VAR's spread in places where she may make calls. I am not letting down my guard. I do expect her to still make contact. She is getting pressure from all sides - family, friends, children, me. I still have the tape of lover boy's voice mails. I did listen to a great deal of the tape before she found me with it. 

It was mostly the "Jabba the Hut" script. He's such a monster. He just cussed me out for 30 minutes. (I was only in the room with her for maybe 15 minutes. The children came into the room several times during that. I didn't call her any names, etc. I did say the affair is BS. I probably called Romeo several choice words. I do not consider that "cussing someone out." I spent 10 years in the Marine Corps. At one point, it was rare for me to talk without cussing in a sentence, regardless of the topic, tone, or mood. That does still come out when I'm angry.) Other gross exaggerations. However, she was crying while she was talking about it. No, I didn't want to give it up.

But what good would it do? Would it make a difference in divorce court? I don't think so. Even if it's admissable, which I don't know, so what? She was talking to her boyfriend on the phone. To me, that is a huge deal. However, it don't look like courts give a flip about infidelity. 

The trade-off is that it will be more difficult for her to contact him. Anything that makes the affair more difficult is a good thing. Am I optimistic that anything will change? No. Will a month of no heroine cure a heroine addict? I don't know. IF she follows through with a month of no contact, perhaps it will clear the fog somewhat. I'm not betting the farm on it. 

I'm still working on me for me. Sometimes, you have to lose the battle to win the war. I weighed the strengths and weaknesses of the choices. As a former Marine Corps platoon sergeant, I made a tactical decision. Giving up the tape didn't mean much. I believe she perceived the tape to be much more powerful than it actually was. I had already listened to most of it. I doubt it would help in court. What other purpose did it serve? Her cell phone is more important to her than the tape was to me, strategically. Perhaps it was an error in judgment, but it was weighed out.


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## gasunrise

You have the battery, she has the phone. A quick trip to any number of places and she has a new battery and is off and running again. 

Been there, done that, you want to believe in them so badly that you do stuff that you know is not in your best interest but you can't help yourself because you "love" them and you want everything to be the way it was. 

IF this all stops and you get everything back together again it will never be like it was. In my case, my hope is that it will be something better and stronger. It took me handing him divorce papers and demanding a decision to get to where we are today. 

If what you want is your family together then I wish you the best. Its not an easy road.


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## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> Um, do you see how ludicrous that is???.


 Yes, the whole situation is ludicrous and becoming more so day by day.



Jellybeans said:


> Sorry if I'm coming across as harsh but you need to really start seeing your situation for what it is. She is going to continue to play you because, quite frankly, she sees you will never do anything about it. So she gets to her her family facade intact while she carries on w/ another guy and not ever face any consequences.


She knows she has me in a bad spot for now. I can't kick her out because the house is half hers. I can't file for divorce because I don't have the cash. I am unwilling to move out. I refuse to move out. She refuses to move out. A legal separation MAY get her out of the house, but it is as expensive as a divorce. 

Yes, she has the upper hand at this point in time. There's not much more I can do. I could physically stop her and take the phone, etc. whenever she goes to call him. I refuse to use my physical strength to stop it. 

In this situation, time is sort of on my side. I will grow through the pain. I'm physically very sore today from my hard workout this weekend. No pain, no gain. Maybe that's as true emotionally as it is physically. 

Sometimes, a slow buildup of troops is a good tactical decision. She will not have the upper hand for long. I am becoming stronger. As long as she thinks she has the upper hand, she will be complacent and not become stronger. 

I have come to think of her more as an enemy than a partner. That is not what a marriage should be. The tactical plans are on one hand. On the other hand, I will plan A the heck out of her this month, with a little 180 thrown in also. 

I don't have much of a stick at this point. I haven't given much of a carrot either. I will openly work on the carrot and privately work on enhancing the stick.


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## HurtinginTN

gasunrise said:


> You have the battery, she has the phone. A quick trip to any number of places and she has a new battery and is off and running again.


Yes. It would actually be cheaper to just get a new phone. I lost my battery to my cell phone a while back. I went to get a new one. A new battery was about $45. A new phone was $15. Yes, she can very easily get a new one. But, she will have the extra knowledge of breaking yet another vow.


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## gasunrise

HurtinginTN said:


> I can't file for divorce because I don't have the cash.


I don't know what kind of work you do but is being able to barter that skill with an attorney an option. Yes, it sounds like a foolish idea but it happens everyday.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

YOU GAVE HER THE TAPE?!?!?! WTF ARE YOU DOING!?!?! Dude... I would stick my foot up your a$$ but your head is in the way... lol.

you are really really blowing this at every turn...

Great "tactical" decision...

Hand over a piece of information that may have HAD value because she wasn't sure what was on it... Her mind could have been running buck wild wondering what you had... Now she knows exactly what you had... NOTHING.

Better yet, now her LAWYER will have evidence that you are ILLEGALLY RECORDING her private conversations.

and NO THEY WERE never admissable on your side... but NOW they are certainly admissable on hers. 

The value was information for your knowledge... which you will not be getting anymore of because you just alerted her she is being recorded... and if she did find out, the value was her _not knowing_ exactly what you had... 

Traded EVERYTHING for a lie about not talking to OM...

*edit* I'd suggest you try to get that tape back before she realizes you handed her what could be a "smoking gun".


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## WhereAmI

HurtinginTN said:


> Yes. It would actually be cheaper to just get a new phone. I lost my battery to my cell phone a while back. I went to get a new one. A new battery was about $45. A new phone was $15. Yes, she can very easily get a new one. But,* she will have the extra knowledge of breaking yet another vow.*


You really think she'll see it that way? She thinks she's the victim, as shown in the call that you recorded. She needed to get the tape back because her evil husband was prying into her life with her one true love. She'll get another cell phone while telling herself that she needs support to get through living with such a monster. Remember, we're talking about an alien version of your wife.

That tape would have been a great thing to keep. I doubt she's aware of the implications of using it in court. Just knowing that it was around would have given her fear that there may finally be a consequence. So far, nada.


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## HurtinginTN

How could it possibly be illegal? The van is in my name only. Can't a man put a recorder in his vehicle? The tape is hidden with the phone and her passwords, etc. I have it narrowed down. WHEN she goes back on her end, which I give 3 days, I will find it.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

FEDERAL LAW said:


> The federal law on recording another individual in person, on the telephone or via another communication device is the one-party consent rule. As long as one person in the conversation is aware that the recording is going on, then it is a legal recording. However, recording a private conversation without the knowledge of either party is illegal and an invasion of privacy


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## turnera

What is your plan for a Plan A? Do you know her Emotional Needs and your Love Busters?


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## turnera

In Texas, it's legal to record your OWN conversation without telling the other person, but it's illegal to record someone ELSE's conversation without their knowledge. But, whatever. I doubt one recorded conversation is going to get you in hot water.

fwiw, the agreement to not talk to him for a month - IF she means it, can be a good thing, if you do a great Plan A and remind her why she married you.


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## HurtinginTN

I simply placed a recorder in MY van. She chose to use MY van for her phone call to her lover.

My love busters are cussing, angry outbursts, and not giving her freedom to openly continue her affair. I'll work on the first two. 

Emotional needs - She refuses to do the emotional needs questionnaire, but I can guess several.


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## turnera

Well, you need to write them down on a piece of paper and, after each one, write out how you plan to MEET those ENs. Solidify it in your mind so you have a real plan. Don't waste the month just flitting around. Make every minute count. Give her a reason to choose you.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> The trade-off is that it will be more difficult for her to contact him. .


No it won't. Tape or no tape, she has been carrying on an EA in front of your face for a long time now. If you keep doing the same thing, you will get the same results back, TN.

The "tape" is a moot point. It's like you don't want to hear it so you can know all the details which is nuts. The bottom line is she won't cut off contact with him indefinitely and she's disrespecting you each day this continues. She knows you won't do anything about it so she keeps it up.

Right now you are handing her the affair on a silver platter along with you as a sidedish.



HurtinginTN said:


> Yes, she has the upper hand at this point in time. There's not much more I can do. .


Stop giving her all of your power. *You* have the upper hand but you're making it seem like she does which is insane. Findi your self worth, your dignity and self-respect. 

Until you take a stand for yourself, your situation isn't going to change.


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## paramore

come on bud...you are better than this.


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## HurtinginTN

gasunrise said:


> I don't know what kind of work you do but is being able to barter that skill with an attorney an option. Yes, it sounds like a foolish idea but it happens everyday.


I am an accountant. I did barter for a hearing aid one time. I helped her on her billing, she supplied me with a hearing aid. That could be an option. Thanks for the suggestion.


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## alphaomega

HurtinginTN said:


> I simply placed a recorder in MY van. She chose to use MY van for her phone call to her lover.
> 
> My love busters are cussing, angry outbursts, and not giving her freedom to openly continue her affair. I'll work on the first two.
> 
> Emotional needs - She refuses to do the emotional needs questionnaire, but I can guess several.



Hurting...
The power behind the 180 is that you give the impression that you dont give a sh$t anymore about her behavior and that your moving on. This is why you go cold on her. She made up her mind, so you are getting on with your life...possibly without her. Dont ever raise your voice, argue, scream, or cuss. React to her in dead tones. Be civil, but zero love. This shows that you are a strong man that doesnt fear for losing your wife, if that is how its to be. YOUR the alpha male! You KNOW your worth. You KNOW that if she doesnt respect or want you anymore, thousands of other women will! Roar to yourself, my friend! Dont play her games. Even if she tries to instgate them out of you. You are better than that.

Btw. sTOP snooping! You have your evidence. This will just eat away at your soul if you keep doing the snooping. Theres no more to know. You have what you need. Accept reality and move on with your plan of battle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Powerbane

I TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!

Stop mucking about Marine!!!!

180 now! It certainly can't hurt and it will protect your sanity. 




alphaomega said:


> Hurting...
> The power behind the 180 is that you give the impression that you dont give a sh$t anymore about her behavior and that your moving on. This is why you go cold on her. She made up her mind, so you are getting on with your life...possibly without her. Dont ever raise your voice, argue, scream, or cuss. React to her in dead tones. Be civil, but zero love. This shows that you are a strong man that doesnt fear for losing your wife, if that is how its to be. YOUR the alpha male! You KNOW your worth. You KNOW that if she doesnt respect or want you anymore, thousands of other women will! Roar to yourself, my friend! Dont play her games. Even if she tries to instgate them out of you. You are better than that.
> 
> Btw. sTOP snooping! You have your evidence. This will just eat away at your soul if you keep doing the snooping. Theres no more to know. You have what you need. Accept reality and move on with your plan of battle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## paramore

This is where I hit a crossroads, doing a 180, or proving by action you are the better spouse and filling their love banks by giving them what they were lacking.


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## turnera

Well, personally, I would rather see a person SHOW why they are the better option, and get the WS to prefer the BS, rather than play mind games by acting like they don't care and get the WS back out of desperation; I don't see that lasting.

IMO, one can do a modified 180 that STILL includes fixing all the wrongs the BS has done up to this point.


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## HurtinginTN

You're right. Snooping at this point is pointless. It is a waste of time and energy. 

I like the correlation of treating her like a co-worker. There is necessary communication, but no emotional involvement.

The modified 180 sounds like the Plan A with the 180. Show her I am the better man. Not necessarily to show her, just become a better man. If she sees it, fine. If she doesn't, there are plenty of fish in the sea that will.

Do I have faults? Absolutely, as we all do. I can't do anything about her, but I can and will work on me. This morning, for the first time in a long time, I liked what I saw in the mirror. The working out is starting to show. I got a haircut yesterday. She is amazing. Somehow, she managed to give me a cut that just falls in the right places to cover my very receding hairline without looking like I'm trying to cover up a receding hairline. It just falls that way. I don't know how she did it. I look like I have the head of hair I did 20 years ago. She (the haircut lady) said I look like a "French artist". I don't know if that is necessarily good or bad, but I like the fact that it covers the right spots. 

When I stopped to get gas today, the lady behind the counter kind of did a double take. She probably does that to many men coming in there, but it did help to boost my confidence somewhat. I am making changes that are increasing my view of myself. It was nice to like the man looking back at me in the mirror this morning. I don't know if she'll ever come around or if reconciliation is even possible. I do know that I am going to come out of this a better person. 

I go to see my counsellor in a few minutes. I don't remember if I already posted this, but at one point he was a personal trainer for a professional football team. Maybe he can help me to work on myself both internally and externally.

On the plan A side, he leaves her voice mail messages. She can check voice mail without the battery. I don't believe she knows that, but just in case, I have been leaving some voice mail as well. All good, nothing bad. He shouldn't have sole access to her voice mail. If she's going to go listen to his crap, she should have something from me in there as well. His voice mail I heard mentioned wanting to spend "every second of every day" with her. Well, that sounds awfully smothering to me. What about the kids? Mine was that I want to rock our grandchildren together. I know, the 180 says to act like you don't care. But the Plan A says to fill the love bank. It's a fine line.


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## Runs like Dog

I don't understand the ongoing part. Truly I do not. Which part of pack your stuff and leave was not brilliantly obvious? You are not in a competition this is not high school or jousting. When someone tells me they've found better and don't care what I think, I take them at their word.


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## alphaomega

paramore said:


> This is where I hit a crossroads, doing a 180, or proving by action you are the better spouse and filling their love banks by giving them what they were lacking.


Paramore,
I can understand your mixed feelings on this. If i gave my wife the 180 during regular marriage interactions, she would think something was wrong, if fact, it would drive her into divorce...or an EA. Ironic, isnt it. However...this is not Hurting's wife. This is evil wife caught in the fog and addicted to the heroin shes getting from her affair.

The 180 is designed to bring your SO OUT of th FOG, to a place where you can start to effectively work on rebuiling the marriage. If his wife is in the fog, addicted to her affair partner, any acts of love tank filling by him just wont work...in fact, they will drive her further away. Why? She doesnt want his love, she has OM's love. The lady is on her heroin, and will do or say anything to keep getting it. Any acts of love by him right now will be wasted. WHEN she snaps back to reality from her fanasy world and either decides to go, or hopefully stay, then you start filling love tanks together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## alphaomega

Hurting,
Its not a fine line at all. Do the 180 to bring your wife back from fantasyland. THEN do plan A to fill love tanks together. If shes in the fog, acts of love look like pusuit of your wife with massive desperation. Desperation IS NOT sexy. Its pathetic. If shes in the fog, your acts of love give this message..."Honey, i know you are disrespecting me, the kids, and our marriage right now. Treating us all like garbage. But thats ok. Here's some love, because im a fkn doormat that will take any and all amounts of disrespect you give to this family...and keep coming back for more."

Filling love tanks IS NOT one sided. You dont get to fill her love tank and not get any in return. Thats why you are married in the first pkace. You both filled each others love tanks up mutually, and it was so awesome you wanted to get married and enjoy that together, forever.

Do the 180! THEN when shes returned to earth from the smack of reality, work on Plan A
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> It's a fine line.


But your way over the line... your on the side of the line which makes you appear desperate, weak, needy, insecure, and jealous. 

and don't take this wrong brother... but, for the most part.. you have been being exactly that. 

As much as your resisting... your actually starting to come out of that a little bit though.


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## turnera

alphaomega, if a BH has been ignoring a WW's need for domestic support for the last 5 years, to the point that she was fed up working full time and also having to do all the housework, deciding to start going out and getting a life and ignoring her and showing her he doesn't need her MAY get her attention and make her wonder about him. 

But if she's currently getting a bunch of other ENs met by OM, and BH just disappears on her, she's not going to go 'wait! I love him! I need him! Let me work on the marriage!'

Well, she may. 

But, if he ALSO acknowledges that he's left her holding the bag for 5 years and he recognizes the fallacy of that, and starts doing dishes or washing his own clothes or giving the kids a bath, she's more likely to look at him and see someone WORTH going back to.

To ME, him acknowledging his shortcomings or what he's learned would be paramount in importance to providing a desire to return.

Just ditching her and showing he can walk...so what?


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## paramore

I can see both sides to both plans, for sure, I think a modified 180 is worth looking into, in my case, he sees me doing things I haven't in a long time is a manipulation trick, where as if I do a hard 180, it will prove to him in his mind at this point, see? I knew it wouldn't last. He doesn't seem to care either way at this point, I believe, I may be mistaken, that he isn't completely out of the fog yet, it's a tough thing to beat Hurt for sure.


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## Jellybeans

I personally am a bigger fan of Plan B than Plan A. 

180s aren't meant to get someone out of the fog, IMO. They are something you do for YOU, not the wayward.



Runs like Dog said:


> When someone tells me they've found better and don't care what I think, I take them at their word.


Agree 100x over.


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## HurtinginTN

Runs like Dog said:


> I don't understand the ongoing part. Truly I do not. Which part of pack your stuff and leave was not brilliantly obvious?


I have said that. However, the house is half hers. We both have a legal right to the house. Neither can "force" the other to leave, short of divorce or legal separation(possibly). I refuse to leave my home, from the advice I've received here. She refuses to leave our home. He's a loser halfway across the country that has a roommate. He's not even supporting himself. How can she possibly expect him to support her and our kids? I don't understand a drug addicts mind.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> But your way over the line... your on the side of the line which makes you appear desperate, weak, needy, insecure, and jealous.
> 
> and don't take this wrong brother... but, for the most part.. you have been being exactly that.
> 
> As much as your resisting... your actually starting to come out of that a little bit though.


Very slowly with a lot of regressing. Three steps forward and two steps back. Sometimes one forward and five back. I had a very good meeting with a counsellor today. 

I have been desperate, weak, needy, insecure, and jealous. The desperate part is almost gone. The weak part is leaving quickly. The needy part is much lower. The insecure part is dwindling daily. The jealous part is still very much raging.


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## Runs like Dog

The house thing? That's just a job for pit bull attorneys. Have them fight it out. Maybe you'll liquidate or maybe one of you can buy out the other. One way or the other can't keep going the way you're going for mere money. 

If they're your kids both, kick her out, keep the kids. Let all the dope fiends mate and make a new dope fiend family. I mean seriously - she's a fiend, cheating on you with another man and she won't leave? She loves drugs more than her life, your life, your marriage and your kids? Toss her **** on the lawn. Have a dope fiend garage sale. Yeah I'm not a touchy-feely sort.


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## Jellybeans

You can have a DO-It-Yourself divorce. You can get all the approproriate paperwork from your local courthouse. It's free. My brother did his this way. 

Also, you can call Legal Aid re: divorce/legal separation.


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## gasunrise

There are places that you will see that advertise divorces for insanely low rates, do yourself a favor and stay away from them. The other side of the coin is the attorneys who specialize in fixing low budget divorces and they get paid a mint. 

Legal aid is a good option, you'll just have to see what they have to offer in your area. Where I live they will only become involved if there is documented abuse. 

It could quite well be that handing her the papers is all it will take to shock some sense into her. When you speak with the attorneys let them know that you want to try for an uncontested divorce first, this is where the parties are essentially in agreement on all of the terms of the divorce and want an amicable split. Generally speaking an uncontested divorce is going to be less costly than a contested divorce which is where the courts have to become involved to settle matters. 

First things first though, sit down with her and draw out the terms, write it down. You need to determine how you will divide the marital debt, who will get custody of the children and what are the terms of visitation, payment for extra curricular activities for the children and what your terms will be on that, who will get the vehicle, how the personal property will be divided (make a list of individual items), who gets to claim the children for tax purposes, does she want her maiden name back, how the bank accounts will be divided as well as any other financial accounts, as well as who will get the family pet(s) and any visitation terms on them. This is a starting point of the list to take to the attorney. If you have done this homework it will play into your favor greatly because it decreases his work and may lower your retainer.


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## HurtinginTN

OK. This will probably get a lot of flack. That's OK. I want your honest opinions.

My relationship with Jesus has been seriously lacking. I've pretty much done my own thing for many years. The counsellor I saw yesterday is also a pastor. He teaches a marriage class with about 150 people. We prayed, talked, prayed some more, talked some more. I went to church again last night and cried like a baby.

Now, the Bible teaches that God hates divorce. However, adultery is stated several times as legitimate grounds for divorce. As a matter of fact, in the Old Testament the punishment wasn't divorce, it was stoning. It is a very serious offense.

Husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loves the church and gave himself for it. We BOTH took vows that included "for better or for worse" and "til death do us part." Well, this would certainly fall into the "worse" category. God's love is unconditional. IF a man can love a wayward wife unconditionally, then he would be able to love anyone unconditionally. 

What is unconditional love? It is not enabling the affair. My wife actually asked me to stop at Wal-Mart to buy a phone card to re-fill her pre-paid phone. I refused. I said, "I can't stop you from having your affair. However, I refuse to enable it by buying you minutes to talk to your lover." 

One thing my counsellor mentioned yesterday when he was praying is that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead. He can also raise my marriage from the dead. Also, (a very hard one to swallow at this point) ALL things work together for the good of those who love the Lord. How can this possibly be good? It has knocked me on my knees. While I'm there, I might as well pray. It has forced me to look hard in the mirror, which I should have done years ago. It has led me to dealing with issues that I should have dealt with years ago. It has led me to work hard on improving myself, not for her, but for me.

For years, if not always, I have thought that doing things for myself was selfish. I used to go fishing every weekend. I could count the fishing trips on my fingers for the past 13 years. I used to hunt a lot every year. I can count the number of deer I have killed in the past 13 years on one hand. I gave up the things I enjoyed because I felt like it was selfish is she didn't want to do them also. I NEEDED THOSE THINGS!

Now, how do I love her as Christ loved the church? Does that mean never getting angry? NO! Jesus himself got angry. Does that mean hiding your anger so no one can see it? NO! Jesus went through the temple turning over tables because they had turned a place of worship into a marketplace. As my counsellor said yesterday when I said I have been very angry, it was "righteous indignation." 

IF I can truly love her unconditionally, which is a BIG IF, through this, I come out the winner no matter what the outcome of the marriage is. Perhaps the best way is to truly reflect on and study the way HE loves ME. I will be meeting with him more on a very regular basis. I also plan to get back into going to church on a regular basis. 

I have been told by several wise people that we all have a hole in our heart. Jesus is the only one that can truly fill that hole. I have tried to fill that hole with my wife for 13 years. Only to be betrayed. Why not work on a deep relationship with someone that will never betray me? Then, perhaps, I can have a meaningful relationship with someone here on Earth.


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## paramore

I am with you there Hurt, I have been speaking ALOT to a friend who is an avid church goer, she has helped me so much. I watched the movie Fireproof last weekend and bawled the entire time. I got the book that the movie was based off of, and bawled the entire time I was reading it. I have come to the conclusion that I am loving my husband unconditionally, I will love him no matter the outcome, I have told him, while he feels he will never be the same, I will love the man he is no matter what, and I know that in my heart to be true, maybe get The Love Dare?


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## HurtinginTN

I do have that. I started it a few years ago. It was while I had been out of work for a while with no prospects. We were actually on food stamps for a short period. Standing in that line will sure kill a man's ego. 

I didn't get too far in the love dare at that point. Nothing would work without some finances coming in. Maybe I'll brush the dust off that and try it again.


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## turnera

I think you should get a non-religious counselor.


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## Jellybeans

Oh, Hurt, I can't advise you on this since I am not very religious but I do believe. 

For the longest time I would pray for God to help me save my marriage, the entire time our divorce was going through, while my hub never waivered from wanting a divorce though he did MC with me, spoke to me every day, we spent the nights together, and carried on as a normal couple with him saying the whole time he wanted us to be together, post-divorce. It finally dawned on me that no matter how much I prayed and repented for things I'd done, the divorce was going to go through. It takes two to make a marraige work. Free will and and all. Then the day came that I prayed for God's will. As you know, I am divorced as of Monday. My marriage being saved just wasn't in the cards, no matter how much I did not want a divorce.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> My wife actually asked me to stop at Wal-Mart to buy a phone card to re-fill her pre-paid phone.


There are some very serious issues here, well beyond the fog or the affair... For her to ask you to do this takes a deep resentment of you well beyond just not respecting you, bordering on hatred. That is malicious contempt.


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## Jellybeans

^ Actually, the issue is the same as seen in so many other situations--this is what happens when the BS doesn't put their foot down and lets the DS walk all over them. 

It's par for the course. She will keep doing this and making these requests because she knows she can and she hasn't faced a single consequence. Unless TN does something different and makes it known he's not ok with her antics. So far he hasn't done anthing different.


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## HurtinginTN

That one is even beyond your level of WTF? Like you have said repeatedly, there will be no end of the horribleness.

Now, giving her unconditional love does not mean a free open check to do with what she will. We do have free will. We also have consequences for our actions. On the phone card refill, I told her that no way will I do that. She doesn't respect me, but I need to start respecting myself. It's one thing to not force her to stop, it's another thing altogether to bring home the crack cocaine. 

Yes, I agree that that request, the request for me to finance her going to Colorado to meet him, the insistence on continuing this affair, the refusal to give passwords, the outright lying and deception, the blame shifting, etc. all show outright contempt. 

My counsellor asked me yesterday, "What if she said she would stop the affair today?" I said, " I wouldn't believe it." He said, "OK. Assume you did believe the affair was over. What would you do?" "I said that wouldn't be enough. She has to end the affair, go to marriage counselling, show remorse, and actively work on the marriage." He said, "Good. Many spouses are relieved that an affair ends and then just go on with their lives. In those cases, another affair is not far off."

He didn't say, "Give her unconditional love and she'll run back into your arms." I was the one that came to the realization that was what I should give. He agreed. He pointed out what that is, somewhat. We'll discuss it more on later meetings. He pointed out that unconditional love IS NOT enabling the addiction. He was very clear and I agree fully that divorce is very likely. Working on giving unconditional love is not a desperate attempt to save the marriage. It is an attempt to become a better man. 

He told me of a well-to-do friend with a family, expensive home, etc. that he had to go to the not-so-good parts of town a few times and get him out of crack houses. As in an affair, this man was willing to throw everything away for the addiction.

I do love that woman. I do not love the woman she is right now. She is an addict willing to throw everything she has away for a fantasy. I HAVE to break that addiction. It would be much easier to just walk away and start a new life with a woman who respects me and cares for me. That sounds extremely appealing, actually. 

I've not presented a good carrot, nor a stick. I've been the perfect example of what a doormat should be. Plan A and the hard 180 seem to be so much in contradiction. Plan A opens vulnerability. The 180 saves sanity. It is a daily struggle.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> That one is even beyond your level of WTF?..


No, my friend. It's not.

As with everything you have said from the first post you authored... It's dead nut's, deja vue, stuff...

Maybe more so than any other persons situation I have read there are certain things you say that ring dead true to mine... 

I hear a echo... 

I've been there, done that.


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## Shooboomafoo

In thinking that I was being unconditional, and due to constant complaints of my controlling and then worse, whiny neediness, I backed off of all that. With full trust that my wife would not stoop to the level she did. And then Surprise! All of that "backing off" and "relinquishing control" was taken as wallflower doormat walk on me please thank you manlyhood.
Thats not being a doormat. Most people have no idea how to handle the situation once it presents itself. I sure as helllll didnt. The blaming me for being controlling and needy were all ways to get what she wanted. Her way. 
I dont see where you did anything a good man wouldnt do provided his wife were worth an ounce of that goodness.


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## HurtinginTN

Well, I sat down and talked to her deeply last night. I told her the green grass analogy I posted yesterday. Also the "malevolent contempt" comment (That sure sounds lawyerish). I told her that this marriage is toxic to her, me, and our children. Either she ends the affair, commits to marriage counselling, and actively works on the marriage or we need to proceed with a divorce. I researched uncontested divorces yesterday and told her I think we should try to go that route. It will be cheaper and easier on the kids than a long drawn-out court battle. I walked through some of the things we need to work out.

She said she doesn't want to hurt the kids so she'll end it. I asked if she'll give me the phone password. She said no. Then I said you are not really ending it. She called him as I was putting the kids to bed and talked for 2 hours. I went to get a drink and she was in the kitchen. I grabbed the phone and gave him a few choice words. Of course, she was angry. "I was ending it. You didn't have to end it like that." I said, "A goodbye phone call lasts 5 minutes. A 'Let's plan our next steps' phone call lasts 2 hours. 

She insisted that she ended it, but I told her that even if she did, it isn't enough to keep this marriage. She said she did it for the kids' sake. I told her that she has to commit to the marriage fully and completely with complete transparency or we need to proceed with the liquidation of assets, etc.

Now the hard 180. Forget Plan A at this point. I will begin moving on. No, I don't buy the fact that it is over. She'll be right back at it in less than 3 days. Her addiction is too strong. Her hatred and contempt for me is too strong. Her stubbornness is too strong. 

One of the last things I said before going to bed was that she will jump right back on her roller coaster. She says it is over, but she will be calling him again soon. Oh yeah, she said she has seen his picture now. A few days ago, supposedly. So much for the "She'll get one look at the guy and it'll be over" theory. I told her I'm getting off this roller coaster ride. It's made me too sick already.


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## Jellybeans

HurtinginTN said:


> I do love that woman.


TN, what is that you love about her? She has no respect for you and treats you like you treat an animal, maybe worse. Please answer...what do you love about her??? 

You are in love with a ghost. She is not who you thought she was. And she shows you that every day.



HurtinginTN said:


> She is an addict willing to throw everything she has away for a fantasy. I HAVE to break that addiction.


Doesn't work that way. Addicts can only be helped if they WANT to be helped. You can have the big intervention for them and explain what they are doing is wrong and harmful and tell them you're not going to enable them anymore but after that, it's up to THEM to go to rehab. You can't make them do anything. 



HurtinginTN said:


> Either she ends the affair, commits to marriage counselling, and actively works on the marriage or we need to proceed with a divorce.


You've already said that to her. Nothing has changed.



HurtinginTN said:


> *She said she doesn't want to hurt the kids so she'll end it. I asked if she'll give me the phone password. She said no. Then I said you are not really ending it. She called him as I was putting the kids to bed and talked for 2 hours.* .


Still playing you.



HurtinginTN said:


> I grabbed the phone and gave him a few choice words. Of course, she was angry. .


STOP doing this. He can very well come back and say you're harassing him. You have done and said the same things over and over again an dit doesn't change. She is a liar and won't end it. 

It's time for you to start realizing that and accept she has no desire to end her affair. Sorry to come across as harsh but you need a quick wake up call.




HurtinginTN said:


> She says it is over, but she will be calling him again soon.


This woman is a joke.


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## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> TN, what is that you love about her? She has no respect for you and treats you like you treat an animal, maybe worse. Please answer...what do you love about her???


The woman I love is inside this current monster somewhere. I don't know if she will ever emerge again or not. Yes, she currently treats me worse than I would treat a dog. 

She gave me 3 wonderful children that I love very deeply. She also loves these children deeply. Her addiction to the affair has turned her into a monster. I can drive 10 minutes from the office and find women walking the streets willing to do anything for that next little rock. The affair supposedly has the same addictive qualities as crack. It becomes the only thing that consumes you and you are willing to give up anything to get it.

I watched my wedding video last week. That woman I married is buried somewhere in this beast. My weaknesses as a husband over the years helped to bury that wonderful woman I married. It takes two to make a marriage work. It also took the faults of both of us to get to this point. I certainly don't condone an affair or think that was a good choice. I certainly don't think I deserve the hell I have been living in for months. However, I do admit that I had a part in the marriage going south.

I don't love this monster I am currently roommates with. I love the woman that is trapped inside that monster. Whether that woman will ever come out, I don't know. She may very well be gone forever. 

She knows I was completely serious last night. I wasn't speaking out of anger. I was calm and collected. I laid it out in very simple terms. I made it clear that I will not remain married to this beast. I do not believe the beast will subside. I am moving on.


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## Jellybeans

Your wife isn't there anymore. The monster is who she is now.

So what are you going to do about it? 

You say "she knows I was completely serious last night."... but she called him and talked for two hours and won't give you her passowrds, even after saying she wouldn't talk to him til May.

I had an affair, as you know. And I ended it completely. My marriage was way more important to me. She doesnt want to. And nothing you do will make her unless she WANTS to.

You keep doing the same thing, you will get the same outcome.


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## HurtinginTN

I will not leave the home. However, I will begin systematically liquidating the assets. I will also work on a few home repairs to bring the home into a more marketable condition. I will be contacting a realtor in the near future. I will be discussing with her on a daily basis the terms of the divorce and working out the details. 

Perhaps (.000005% chance, in my opinion) when she sees the details of what life will be like post-divorce, the monster will go away. Either way, I am done with the roller coaster ride. I am done being a doormat. No More Mr. Nice Guy. I don't have that book yet. Maybe I'll buy it at lunch. 

Her family, his family, me, the kids, her friend have all told her that the affair is wrong. You are right. She is not willing to end it. It continues to escalate. Therefore, it is time to end this horrible nightmare. 

I also told her last night that even with a divorce, that man will not be around my children until I am convinced he is safe. There are many red flags that scream to a sane person, "KEEP HIM AWAY FROM YOUR KIDS!!!!!!!!!!" Of course, she is not sane so she ignores those warning signs. I told her that she will not take my kids to see him. If she tries to take my kids out of the state without my consent, I will charge her with kidnapping. She said I can't do that. I said, "Yes, I can. You can not take them across state lines without my consent. I will never consent to them being around him unless all the many red flags are cleared up first. I will charge you with kidnapping if you try to take them to Colorado." I don't know for sure if that is legally correct, but I do believe I have heard that. It will certainly be a condition in the divorce that he never be around my children.


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## Jellybeans

Don't leave the home. Nobody ever said that was a good thing to do.

Re: the .000005% chance...she will never know what divorce will be like as long as you're doing what you're doing (the same stuff over and over again).

You are wasting your time trying to reason with her, TN. Waywards--you can't rationalize w/ them at all. It's impossible.


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## HurtinginTN

Jellybeans said:


> Don't leave the home. Nobody ever said that was a good thing to do.
> 
> Re: the .000005% chance...she will never know what divorce will be like as long as you're doing what you're doing (the same stuff over and over again).
> 
> You are wasting your time trying to reason with her, TN. Waywards--you can't rationalize w/ them at all. It's impossible.


I'm not trying to reason with her. I'm done with that. The steps to an equitable split are in progress. I do not believe that this will work to save the marriage. I'm more likely to have a $100 million winning lottery ticket in my pocket that I am to have a lasting marriage. I'm just acknowledging that there is still a chance, however microscopically small it is.

The threats? You have no idea the threats she has dished out. 

I tried two different bookstores at lunch for No More Mr. Nice Guy. Neither had it. I'll order it online.

I also talked to her brother at lunch. He is into real estate. I asked if he would be interested in buying the house. That would have been the fastest and easiest way to get out of it. He said it would feel to weird to have anything to do with it. I told him where I stand. Unless she fully commits to the marriage, I will continue taking the necessary steps for divorce.


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## Jellybeans

What steps have you taken towards a divorce?



HurtinginTN said:


> I'm just acknowledging that there is still a chance, however microscopically small it is.


Wrong, TN. There is zero chance as long as she's still involved with him. Which she is.


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## HurtinginTN

So far, just researching the steps that need to be taken into consideration for a no-contest divorce. This was just late last night when we had the discussion. This weekend, we will start the process of dividing stuff up.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Like most everything else in this process... She sees your threats are just that. She is not scared of _your_ consequences. 

I think you might be hoping to scare her into "waking up"... Me thinks you are the one who isn't awake. She is awake dude, she's done, gone. 

Ironically enough, you may not know it right this second because you may still be in "crisis/panic/rescue" mode... But you are probably past coming back from this. 

Take a hard look inside yourself... You've probably seen to much and been through to much and if your like me you may be over estimating your ability to not just forgive what she has done (not the affair, the other stuff)... But to repair this damage inside you...

Too late, over, window closed. It could have easily been "closed" before this ever really started (for you)... 

But, you gave it A GREAT fight. More fight than she deserved and more fight than 99% of other men would... That is awesome and you have to believe that the residual effects of this process and the changes you are making in yourself will carry on and you will be a better man for it.

I know that's not comforting and it doesn't look that way now, trust me. I _really _know.


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## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Like most everything else in this process... She sees your threats are just that. She is not scared of _your_ consequences.


Right, she even said last night when I was talking about the fact that we need to discuss child support, alimony, etc. that "This won't work out as good for you as you think." with a little smirk. I think this won't work out nearly as good for her as she thinks. I believe she honestly thinks that her life will not be changed whatsoever, just that I'll be out of the picture. I believe she thinks she keeps the house we couldn't afford when both of us were living there. She thinks she gets alimony and child support to live on without having to go to work. She thinks I will continue to pay all of her current bills without being in the picture. How she can think this, I don't know. It's been very tight due to our (95% her) over-spending. How can she possibly expect it to remain the same when I have to support 2 households? Just like the fog of the affair, I suppose.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I think you might be hoping to scare her into "waking up"... Me thinks you are the one who isn't awake. She is awake dude, she's done, gone.
> 
> Ironically enough, you may not know it right this second because you may still be in "crisis/panic/rescue" mode... But you are probably past coming back from this.
> 
> Take a hard look inside yourself... You've probably seen to much and been through to much and if your like me you may be over estimating your ability to not just forgive what she has done (not the affair, the other stuff)... But to repair this damage inside you...
> 
> Too late, over, window closed. It could have easily been "closed" before this ever really started (for you)... .


I agree. I don't think she realizes that. She doesn't care, but she still thinks she has me whenever she so chooses. I truly don't know if I have it in me to reconcile, even if she does magically turn competely around and give it 100%. IF she did that, I would also give it 100% and try. I don't know if reconciliation would still be possible even then.



Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> But, you gave it A GREAT fight. More fight than she deserved and more fight than 99% of other men would... That is awesome and you have to believe that the residual effects of this process and the changes you are making in yourself will carry on and you will be a better man for it.
> 
> I know that's not comforting and it doesn't look that way now, trust me. I _really _know.


Are you still fighting? A part of me still says to not give up. That part dwindles daily. Yes, I will come out of this a better man, both internally and externally. The next woman will have one heck of a man. I will take the time to heal these deeeeeeep wounds before dating again, but someday some woman will reap the benefits of these changes.


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## joe kidd

Like others have said you fought harder than most would. When I confronted my SO about her affair I told her him or me. If she would have hesitated one bit with her answer I would have made the choice for her.


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## HurtinginTN

joe kidd said:


> Like others have said you fought harder than most would. When I confronted my SO about her affair I told her him or me. If she would have hesitated one bit with her answer I would have made the choice for her.


I'm thinking that is what I should have done to start with. It would have saved us both a lot of trouble and pain.


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## Wolf359

My friend had a similar thing happen just like what you wife was saying she was going to do for your money. She could not believe how much she lost when he left. He made over 50,000 a year. She did not work at all. He was a contractor labor person. He got threatened by her, and the next day he was let go by his good friend, He He. Had to work at flipping burgers for a few years. Just to run her into a brick wall of more bills , her bills (that's a first). I would start working at McDonald's so she could not get a penny from you for at least 2 years. ( I lost my job He He He, I have to find a new one.) He lived with everybody off and on over the few years. We all helped him out, because we all know what happened. He made sure his kids were taken care of. He did side work and bought the food and other stuff they needed, but she could not get the money from him. Just make sure you do this before you file so it does not look bad.


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## turnera

My only comment is that you have moved from D Day to dividing assets awfully fast. A common advice is to not make major decisions too hastily.


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## pidge70

Just wanted to say...I hope everything works out for you. Take care of yourself but, most importantly take care of your children as well. When my SO and I were going through the worst moments we didn't realize how hard it was on our youngest daughter. Something happened with her that opened our eyes even more. We are truly better in every way now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twotimeloser

Hurting,

I hate to be a bother...

But there is no way possible I could read all 30 pages... Is there any way you could post an updated thread, with some background? Kind of like a state of the union...

If not, I understand. I would just like to see how all this has developed and possibly offer some words. 

Thanks for your consideration.


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## Affaircare

HurtinginTN~

I want to throw out some realistic numbers to you, okay? If you look at the State of Tennessee's Child Suppport Calculator (found here: Tennessee Department of Human Services) and if I plug in average personal income of a person who is over 25 and earns wages in the USA, the figure is about $44k per year. If I assume that your wife earns NOTHING, here are some realistic figures:

If you and she have the kids literally 50/50 (that's 182.5 days each throughout the year) that means she would get CS of $1116/month.

If you have the kids 4 days a week (208/yr) and she has 3 days a week (157/yr) that figure changes to $804/month. 

If you have the kids during the week (260/yr) and she has them on weekends (105/yr) so she can run away with loverboy, that figure becomes $169/month!!

So make no mistake. If she runs off with loverboy in Colorado and you are the parent who keeps the children and cares for them, she has a shock coming. Furthermore, the judge will not automatically order alimony either. The judge will consider: 

(1) The relative earning capacity and financial resources of each party.
(2) The relative education and training of each party.
(3) The duration of the marriage.
(4) The age and mental condition of each party.
(5) The physical condition of each party.
(6) The extent to which it would be undesirable for a party to seek employment outside the home.
(7) The separate assets of each party.
(8) The marital property.
(9) The standard of living of the parties established during the marriage.
(10) The extent to which each party has made such tangible and intangible contributions to the marriage and to the education, training or increased earning power of the other party.
*(11) The relative fault of the parties.*
(12) Such other factors as are necessary to consider the equities between the parties.

This is where, even if your state does not consider adultery in the dissolution of the marriage, it will consider that even if she didn't have a job and may not have the college you do...SHE is the one who left and broke things up, not you. So it might (note....MIGHT) be relevant in determining ALIMONY. If she has training, has the ability to get a job, is in good physical and mental shape, AND SHE IS THE ONE WHO LEFT then it could well mean "No alimony for you!" 

So just keep those realistic numbers in mind. Okay? She is in for a big shock.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Are you still fighting? A part of me still says to not give up. That part dwindles daily. Yes, I will come out of this a better man, both internally and externally. The next woman will have one heck of a man. I will take the time to heal these deeeeeeep wounds before dating again, but someday some woman will reap the benefits of these changes.


No. I'm not. 

I'm getting divorced. I have the paperwork. It's in the process and there is zero chance I can or would turn this around. I deserve better. I've seen too much.

I was similiar to you for a awhile, I guess I had to walk the path/process... People (like everyone here, ( & ME in your case)) can tell you until we are blue in the face but you can only listen at your pace... 

Funny thing which isn't mentioned as much or perhaps recognized in the same terms as with the DS's... But some LS's are also in a different but similar psychological funk to the "fog"... Let's call it the SMOG. lol. I've been there, all of us (LS's) have been there to some degree and like the "fog" the "smog" comes in different degrees... and you aren't going to be "forced" out of it... It has to disipate.


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## LonelyNLost

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No. I'm not.
> 
> I was similiar to you for a awhile, I guess I had to walk the path/process... People (like everyone here, ( & ME in your case)) can tell you until we are blue in the face but you can only listen at your pace...
> 
> Funny thing which isn't mentioned as much or perhaps recognized in the same terms as with the DS's... But some LS's are also in a different but similar psychological funk to the "fog"... Let's call it the SMOG. lol. I've been there, all of us (LS's) have been there to some degree and like the "fog" the "smog" comes in different degrees... and you aren't going to be "forced" out of it... It has to disipate.


Wow, very true observation. I believe it works a little bit like the opposite of the fog. While they are only seeing the negative times, we are only seeing the positive times. It works completely in reverse. It takes us awhile to see them for what they really are and realize that we don't need them. My smog is slowly starting to lift. I still want my marriage, but I don't want to be married to this man that is treating me this way.


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## HurtinginTN

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No. I'm not.
> 
> I'm getting divorced. I have the paperwork. It's in the process and there is zero chance I can or would turn this around. I deserve better. I've seen too much.
> 
> I was similiar to you for a awhile, I guess I had to walk the path/process... People (like everyone here, ( & ME in your case)) can tell you until we are blue in the face but you can only listen at your pace...
> 
> Funny thing which isn't mentioned as much or perhaps recognized in the same terms as with the DS's... But some LS's are also in a different but similar psychological funk to the "fog"... Let's call it the SMOG. lol. I've been there, all of us (LS's) have been there to some degree and like the "fog" the "smog" comes in different degrees... and you aren't going to be "forced" out of it... It has to disipate.



I'm sorry. I can tell you have been through hell as well. From the beginning of my troubles, you mentioned that fighting for the marriage for the kids' sake was a good reason. I assume you also have children, thus the hard fight to keep your marriage. I hope you and your children come through this horrible time alright. Love on those kids. It will help them and you both. I know I love on mine much more lately. I hate to see the pain they are in.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> I'm sorry. I can tell you have been through hell as well. From the beginning of my troubles, you mentioned that fighting for the marriage for the kids' sake was a good reason. I assume you also have children, thus the hard fight to keep your marriage. I hope you and your children come through this horrible time alright. Love on those kids. It will help them and you both. I know I love on mine much more lately. I hate to see the pain they are in.


Yes, I have been through hell (I should say "the" hell, the hell that many people here have seen and like you are traveling through right now)... A hell I never saw coming and never fathomed was possible. 

Someday I'd like to try to put it all in words, but it's something you can never really explain to someone who hasn't been there. Words can't really do justice to the raw intensity of the despair, panic, loneliness and pain I have seen and felt in the core of my soul. The "human experience" incarnate. 

I'm curious, Have you read my thread?


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## HurtinginTN

Some of it. I know you gave me the link one time. I've been meaning to go back and read it all. I've admittedly been pretty self-absorbed lately.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

HurtinginTN said:


> Some of it. I know you gave me the link one time. I've been meaning to go back and read it all. I've admittedly been pretty self-absorbed lately.


I understand. The reason I asked you if you read it was to see if you could draw some parallels to your situation. 

Through my process many things happened which I didnt fully document here but the overall "flavor" of what was happening inside of me and more importantly the things my WS was doing/saying are very similiar. At times, amazingly so. That's the reason I've taken a specific interest in you and your journey.

I know first hand (as I mentioned) how tough it is to listen to other people... you "hear" what people say but you can't really "hear" it... To much pain, denial, and when your in "survival mode" things just don't really sink in... Plus there's _that thing_... That thing somewhere in there that you hold onto that you have to believe _your different_, _your_ situation is different... Just like the DS fog, the LS smog has that "this is different" component...

Anyway, before I keep spewing... I'd like to tell you some of the things I learned. Some of the things people told me that I didnt listen to.. but now _I know_... Some of the things you will someday _know_ and will share with someone the way we are sharing them with you right now...

Let me promise you something...

This is something I would never have believed if you would have said this to me 6 months ago...

Keep putting one foot in front of the other...

You are going to be Ok. Better than Ok, You are going to be great. You will have peace in your soul. You are going to be a bigger man than you've ever been and a better father than your children have ever known... 

I promise you that.


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## committed4life

you need to stand up for yourself and lay down some ground rules tell her if she doesn't you are going to leave her


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## KathyGriffinFan

Reading these 31 pages or so, has been very frustrating.

Wow. I almost wanna reach through the computer and shake the crap out of you HurtinginTN.

You commented that your situation is becoming ludicrous, but with all due respect, it just seems you keep contributing to it.

It almost feels as if you're still in denial about what is going on. Your anger is just masking the pain. Embrace the pain, yeah it sucks, but it's real and with each ounce of pain, you're a step closer to recovery.

You can't throw her crap all over the floor and then help iron it. You can't allow her to treat you this way and let her take your van to call her lover, or pay for the counseling visits, or pay for anything. She's a grown woman, yes you love her BUT there are consequences for her actions.

The excuse that you don't have money to file for separation/divorce is just that, an excuse. I'm sure that in every state, they have some type of assistance for these matters. Can't you just admit that you're hanging on to this marriage still? You aren't even hanging on by a string, you've already fallen but are still reaching on your way down.

HurtinginTN, you sound like a great guy with some obvious issues (we all have 'em) but c'mon, you can't keep up this yo-yo crap.

Tell her no contact with the OM, then ask her for a date before she's even followed through with that.
Throw her clothes around, then help her to pick them up and iron them.
Yell at her, threaten her, then want to be nice and help her with the dishes.
Say she's responsible for transportation to visit her lover, then allow her to take your van to make calls to him.

Stop the excuses. It is going to hurt, that's okay, and that's healthy. Otherwise, I think you're starting to contribute to this bad situation. You have 3 children to consider, you may WANT your marriage, but you have to think about yourself and the kids.

Yes, work on yourself. Do it with vigor. Don't even think about dating or keep focusing on someone else giving you an ego boost. Love yourself first. An ego boost from some chick will be temporary, but if you value yourself and your needs, that will last a lifetime.


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## KathyGriffinFan

Whew, I got that out. Like I said, reading this has been very frustrating.

Any updates on your situation?


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## HurtinginTN

Yes, I didn't realize as I was doing this that I had written War and Peace. I was just typing my thoughts as I have been through this hell of a roller coaster ride. Someone requested a synopsis and update. That is on another thread "Synopsis and update of ongoing? emotional affair". She says now that it is over with him, but she still keeps the phone.


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## sammy3

HurtinginTN,

I dont think K.G.meant an attack on you per say , so please don't take it as such, as your reply seemed to me. None of us, none, is in a very good place, or none of us, would be on this freaking forum. We are all just looking out for each other, I guess like, we have each others back. 

I know you are in hell ,as I saw you go by me the other day,and saw many more of us on this site too. Just hang in there. All we can do is believe what others before us tell us, "It does get better." My question is, " So until it gets better,now what ?" Maybe you can help me, as you come before me. This is a freaking wild ride.... 

~sammy


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## pidge70

TN hasn't posted on this thread since April. He is now seperated.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor

> TN hasn't posted on this thread since April. He is now seperated.


Not sure that is the case anymore.

HT can you update this thread


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## pidge70

Eli-Zor said:


> Not sure that is the case anymore.
> 
> HT can you update this thread


He is posting in the Going through Divorce or Seperation forum now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HurtinginTN

I have a new thread in the Going Through Divorce or Separation section titled "Day 1 of Separation". I guess another name may have been better as it is now day 5, but I started it on day 1. She left about a month ago to see OM in Denver (20 hour drive) and stayed for 2 weeks. She supposedly had an eye opening experience and came back to work on the marriage. Her words, actions, attitude, etc. all matched her words that she was now committed to the marriage. For a week. Then she called him again. Then she had a couple of more strikes in the following days. As of this past Sunday, we are separated. I'm giving her divorce papers tonight and asking her to complete them by next weekend. I will do the same. If we can iron out all of the differences, we will just file at the courthouse without getting attorneys involved. If not, I have a good attorney lined up. Either way, the marriage is dead. The end result of divorce is set in stone. The only question is the exact path.


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## Eli-Zor

Thanks for the update and sorry it has gone this way. 

Be strong for yourself and your children


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## HurtinginTN

Eli-Zor said:


> Thanks for the update and sorry it has gone this way.
> 
> Be strong for yourself and your children


Thanks! The writing on the wall has been clear to everyone but me for a long time. I finally got a new prescription for glasses (figuratively) and can't believe I couldn't read it sooner. I blame the SMOG. lol


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## 2xloser

*applause* Glad you're finally getting to move on, but sorry it all happened to you this way. Good luck in the new phase of your life. Someone out there is yours to be happy with!


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## lordmayhem

So who is brushing the cats now? Don't their coats have to be brushed every night?


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## KathyGriffinFan

lordmayhem said:


> So who is brushing the cats now? Don't their coats have to be brushed every night?


:rofl:


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