# Wife alienates



## Marriage1724 (Oct 4, 2015)

OK. I have been married to my wife for 10 years. From the get go she was always jealous of other people it seemed. Whether it was family, friends or other women. Also very presumptuous and always accusing me of cheating or something without having any means of proof or hearing from someone else or anything. 
She has also always been the type where of someone wants to do something that involves us they have to go through her not me. She never said this but I have just noticed if someone asks her answer is yes and if they ask me then I bring it to her she most likely to say no. 
She is also very non- compromising. I guess you could say we've always had these problems. I've always kind of dealt with it in hopes she would grow out of it because she is 6 years younger than me and she was 21 when I met her. 
But back in June of this year we were going out of town. I am the type person where I enjoy being around other people as well as my wife. Every time we go out of town she is so very adamant about it just being us. 
So a couple of days before we were going my mother called her and told her she and her husband was thinking of coming to same town we were going to be at for one of the days we were going to be there. My wife told me of this and I told her I was ok with this. My wife became very angry and flat out said no, I don't want her there. I said why. They will not be staying with us. They will only be around us for a couple of hours. Mom thought it would be a chance for us to go out on the town for a bit without children which NEVER happens. 
Wife kind of hordes the kids. My wife and mom have had slight issues in the past. My wife tends to over react to these issues and my mom doesn't and does a pretty good job of boundaries. My wife's parents live 4 hours away and come to see us like 1 times every 2 years. When they do come they show up on Saturday at 4pm and leaves next day at 12pm. I feel like my wife wants my parents to be deadbeats because her parents are. They are Indian and don't really make a big deal about things like Christmas, graduations etc. my mom is very active with every event and holiday. Loves Christmas and wouldn't miss a graduation unless she was dying. 
So I tell my wife to just let it go and let's see if they end up coming because my mom was a maybe on the trip. I pleaded with her and tried to explain that my mom had never been any where with us in 10 years and haven't ever been any where with the children. She screamed and hollered. Became very angry and basically said f&@k you. You and your mom just go together and get married while you are at it. She over reacted I believe. 
She wouldn't talk to me and I grew angry as well because I am the one that works my ass off. I plan all vacations because wife never will. I feel she doesn't really value them. She doesn't work outside the home. So I took her advise and went. My mom never even came. It was pretty crappy and nothing like a vacation by myself. But was just so tired of compromising with her all the time and she never returning the favor. 
Had it been her parents it would've been fine with me. So I come back and she instantly starts talking divorce. Ever since then she has hated my mom. She even fabricated a story of my mom doing that on purpose so wife wouldn't go. This way my mom could set me up with another girl. Where she got this from I have no idea. It's like she fabricated stories to make herself think she's been wronged so she can have a pity party. 
Right before this happened my mom bought our oldest son a bed and made up a little bedroom at her house for him. She has 3 extra bedrooms. During the course of this stupid argument my wife said that my mom bought that bed because my mom and I plan on taking son from wife. Wife has brought up arguments from 7 years ago that weren't even big deals then and try's to make them sound worse than they were back then. I've asked her for proof of me cheating and all that but she don't wanna hear that. She calls my mom aweful names and like dirty fat *****. When we fights she automatcally thinks about the things that hurt me the most whether mom, sister and calls them every name in the book. I don't want a divorce but we have been in and out of marriage counseling classes. Nothing is working... I need some help on getting over this.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your wife seems to have some major issues with trust, maybe they come from her childhood and non involved parenting, as she takes things to the opposite extreme.
You have to outline all that you did here and tell her that what she does is hurtful and there is no need for her being this way.
Nothing beats good honest communication. Suggest she get some IC to find out why she feels so insecure about you, your family, the kids, etc.

If she is not willing to meet you half way you may have to make a choice about whether you want to continue with this or not. tell her.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Did your wife have past abusive relationships? I am looking for a link to send you from forgivenwife.com The author has some good articles where she realized she was looking at her husband thru a tainted view from earlier relationships. Will post when I can find it. Meanwhile, check out the attachment.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Your wife is erratic to say the least.

You need MC and IC.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

FrazzledSadHusband said:


> Did your wife have past abusive relationships? I am looking for a link to send you from forgivenwife.com The author has some good articles where she realized she was looking at her husband thru a tainted view from earlier relationships. Will post when I can find it. Meanwhile, check out the attachment.


How could she have possibly had abusive relationshis before him? She was 15 when they met. And he was 21, a grown man. If there was any abuse here that was it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

Didn't say it had to be a romantic relationship! Father, brother, or, girls do date earlier than 15 too.

There are a lot of threads on TAM that have references to CSA.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

I found the link I wanted to post.

Unbearable Lessons - The Forgiven Wife

My wife had a abusive relationship, after having a family life where she was ignored. I think she tolerated negative attention as it was better than no attention at all.

My wife did many of the things yours is doing. Trying to control all situations so she doesn't get hurt. Her distrust of you could be related to past interactions with men.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

My reaction would have been the same as your wife had my MIL wanted to see us while out of town. I too do not lie always having my husband's side of the family involved and would prefer to spend time with him without his family. In this case, I think you have more acceptance of your family because it is your own flesh and blood but you cannot expect your wife to feel the same. I think your wife is hurt....I think she sees you as choosing your family over her by leaving to go on this vacation without her and I think that is where the divorce talk is coming from....hurt and trust. Trust might be that you are making decisions without talking to her and both of you deciding together and it might make her quite angry that you make thee decisions without her, understandably. When you join together as man an wife that does no mean you make the decisions because you are the man. She never has to accept to get along with your family and vise versa. What matters is that the two of you get on-board with each other. I did not get the feeling from your post here that you were the one compromising. I got the feeling you were the one making decisions with your expectation that wife should follow what you wanted and then you could not understand why she had a different way of looking at things.


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## Phil Anders (Jun 24, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> My reaction would have been the same as your wife had my MIL wanted to see us while out of town.


Would you really have:


> "[...]screamed and hollered. Bec[o]me very angry and basically said f&@k you. You and your mom just go together and get married while you are at it"?


 Or dug in your heels when your H then decided to go on the vacation he'd planned (& presumably paid for with money he earned) regardless, just as you'd angrily told him to do? Is this truly a reasonable response to the prospect of a 2-3 hour shared outing during a multi-day trip that's otherwise private, as all other such vacations have been at your insistence?


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## Marriage1724 (Oct 4, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> FrazzledSadHusband said:
> 
> 
> > Did your wife have past abusive relationships? I am looking for a link to send you from forgivenwife.com The author has some good articles where she realized she was looking at her husband thru a tainted view from earlier relationships. Will post when I can find it. Meanwhile, check out the attachment.
> ...


No that's incorrect... I said she was 21 I was 27. I don't believe she was ever abused by a previous boyfriend. She didn't have a whole lot. She is now 32 and I'm 38. As far as abuse... She has an anger problem. She slapped me 5 times on our honeymoon. I slapped her back and I never have felt bad about it. I'm not a woman beater but I was always told to keep my hands to my self and a woman should to. She slapped me once again a few months later. I slapped her back. I almost left then but I loved her and wanted to help her. I explained to her that I have never been in a physically abusive relationship and that I will not continue and since then she has been less aggressive. But she mentally and emotionally and verbally abuses me instead which is just as bad. She did get beaten by her brother at an early age but have never heard the other side of that story.


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## Marriage1724 (Oct 4, 2015)

AVR1962 said:


> My reaction would have been the same as your wife had my MIL wanted to see us while out of town. I too do not lie always having my husband's side of the family involved and would prefer to spend time with him without his family. In this case, I think you have more acceptance of your family because it is your own flesh and blood but you cannot expect your wife to feel the same. I think your wife is hurt....I think she sees you as choosing your family over her by leaving to go on this vacation without her and I think that is where the divorce talk is coming from....hurt and trust. Trust might be that you are making decisions without talking to her and both of you deciding together and it might make her quite angry that you make thee decisions without her, understandably. When you join together as man an wife that does no mean you make the decisions because you are the man. She never has to accept to get along with your family and vise versa. What matters is that the two of you get on-board with each other. I did not get the feeling from your post here that you were the one compromising. I got the feeling you were the one making decisions with your expectation that wife should follow what you wanted and then you could not understand why she had a different way of looking at things.


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## Marriage1724 (Oct 4, 2015)

TO AVR1962... I'm not sure if you read post correctly. I don't agree with you. I believe that marriage is about compromising and doing everything within reason to make your spouse happy. I have always let her have her way on this subject in the past whether it was family or friends. that is just one piece of the puzzle. Afterwards, (now), She has written off my mom and has told me that this whole divorce thing is her fault. She doesn't say this calmly. She is irate. Let me try and help you understand. She has gone as far as to say and I quote. 
" I'm gonna take my gun and stick it up your mama's P***Y hole and pull the trigger and I hope James D**K is in it when I do" ..... James is my moms husband. I am very embarassed to even tell you that but I wanted to get my point across. The point of this is to tell you how low below the belt she can hit. I have listened to N.W.A, Eminem, 2 live crew. I have never heard anything so disturbing, ever. Also, you are saying you don't like always having family come on vacation. this would have been the first time in 10 years my mom has ever been on vacation with us and like I originally posted. She was gonna come for a couple of hours of one day.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Marriage, I agree with *Aine* that you're describing an inability to trust. Significantly, that problem and many other behaviors you describe -- e.g., event-triggered temper tantrums, irrational jealousy, controlling behavior, lack of empathy, and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as very controlling behavior, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.



Marriage1724 said:


> She has an anger problem. She slapped me 5 times on our honeymoon.


A strong anger problem is strongly associated with BPD. Of the ten PDs, BPD is the only personality disorder for which a third of the defining traits (specifically, 3 of the 9 traits used in diagnosing the disorder) contains the term "rage" or "anger." If your W is a BPDer (i.e., has strong BPD traits), she carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. 

This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- usually in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

For these reasons, the _physical_ abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at *50% of Batterers are BPDers*. Similarly, a *2008 study* and a *2012 study* find a strong association between violence and BPD. 



> She was always jealous.... family, friends or other women.


As noted above, irrational jealousy is one of the nine defining traits that are used in diagnosing this disorder. If your W has strong BPD traits, her jealousy arises from one of her two greatest fears: the fear of abandonment. The other great fear for BPDers is engulfment, a very uncomfortable suffocating feeling that arises during intimacy.



> She has also always been the type where of someone wants to do something that involves us they have to go through her not me.


Because BPDers have a great fear of you moving too far away (abandonment) and you moving too close in intimacy (engulfment fear), they generally are very controlling -- so as to push you away when you are too close and pull you back when you are too distant. On top of that, they tend to be very jealous of time you spend with anyone else, including your own parents.



> She has hated my mom. She even fabricated a story of my mom doing that on purpose so wife wouldn't go.


Likewise, my BPDer exW tried to isolate me away from my mother, other family members, and close friends. Abusive people find that their spouses are easier to control when they are isolated and without a close support group.



> I guess you could say we've always had these problems. I've always kind of dealt with it in hopes she would grow out of it because she is 6 years younger than me


Yes, 6 years younger than you in most respects. Yet, if she really does have strong BPD traits, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old -- making her 34 years younger in that respect.



> "I'm gonna take my gun and stick it up your mama's P***Y hole and pull the trigger and I hope James D**K is in it when I do" ..... James is my moms husband.


Like I said, she has the emotional development of a four year old if she has strong BPD traits. I've heard similar language coming out of the mouth of my BPDer exW. The primary reason this occurs is that, like a young child, a BPDer cannot tolerate experiencing conflicting feelings toward other people. Likewise, a BPDer cannot tolerate uncertainties, ambiguities, and other grey areas of interpersonal relationships.

Consequently, the BPDer's subconscious works 24/7 to protect her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. Toward that end, it will "split off" the conflicting feelings, putting them well out of reach of the BPDer's conscious mind. This is why BPDers tend to categorize everyone (e.g., your mother) as "all black" (against me) or "all white" (with me). Moreover, they will recategorize someone -- in only ten seconds based solely on a minor comment or action -- from one polar extreme to the other. This behavior -- wherein the BPDer flips rapidly between Jekyll (adoring you) to Hyde (hating or devaluing you) is called "black-white thinking." 

I mention all this about B-W thinking so as to explain how an intelligent adult (e.g., your W) can suddenly perceive your kind mother as Hitler incarnate -- and why they will proceed to treat her as though she actually is Hitler. When a BPDer is splitting someone black, that person has absolutely no redeeming qualities that the BPDer can see.

If this seems bizzare, consider that this is EXACTLY how you and I did our thinking on a 24/7 basis during early childhood. That is, we loved Mommy when she was bring out the toys and immediately hated Mommy when she took one away. And this distorted perception is EXACTLY how we continue to "think" -- even as adults -- whenever we experience very _intense feelings_. 

This is why, by the time we were in high school, we already knew that our judgment flies out the window whenever we are very angry. And this is why we try to keep our mouths shut, and our fingers off the keys, until we have time to cool down. Well, BPDers are like that too. Only, it is times twenty with them.



> Nothing is working... I need some help on getting over this.


My advice, Marriage, is to see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself _-- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join *Aine* and the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional can do that. Hence, the main reason for learning these red flags -- like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack -- is to help you avoid a painful situation and to decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money seeking a professional opinion. Take care, Marriage.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Phil Anders said:


> Would you really have: Or dug in your heels when your H then decided to go on the vacation he'd planned (& presumably paid for with money he earned) regardless, just as you'd angrily told him to do? Is this truly a reasonable response to the prospect of a 2-3 hour shared outing during a multi-day trip that's otherwise private, as all other such vacations have been at your insistence?


Do we understand the wife's history here? What is behind the anger? We become angry for a reason and that anger tells us something. Too many times we suppress and suppress and when we do that suppressed anger comes out very backwards and very ugly. So is this suppressed anger from years of dealing with a situation she has finally got so tired of she can no longer stand it and has popped off with some really hateful things??


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Marriage1724 said:


> TO AVR1962... I'm not sure if you read post correctly. I don't agree with you. I believe that marriage is about compromising and doing everything within reason to make your spouse happy. I have always let her have her way on this subject in the past whether it was family or friends. that is just one piece of the puzzle. Afterwards, (now), She has written off my mom and has told me that this whole divorce thing is her fault. She doesn't say this calmly. She is irate. Let me try and help you understand. She has gone as far as to say and I quote.
> " I'm gonna take my gun and stick it up your mama's P***Y hole and pull the trigger and I hope James D**K is in it when I do" ..... James is my moms husband. I am very embarassed to even tell you that but I wanted to get my point across. The point of this is to tell you how low below the belt she can hit. I have listened to N.W.A, Eminem, 2 live crew. I have never heard anything so disturbing, ever. Also, you are saying you don't like always having family come on vacation. this would have been the first time in 10 years my mom has ever been on vacation with us and like I originally posted. She was gonna come for a couple of hours of one day.


Sit down with your wife, tell her you love her and want to know what is upsetting her. Do not blow her feelings off, do not make excuses, listen (genuinely listen) to what she is saying. She may become upset gain because those hurts may be very close under the surface. Then come back here and tell us what she had to say.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Marriage1724 said:


> TO AVR1962... I'm not sure if you read post correctly. I don't agree with you. I believe that marriage is about compromising and doing everything within reason to make your spouse happy. I have always let her have her way on this subject in the past whether it was family or friends. that is just one piece of the puzzle. Afterwards, (now), She has written off my mom and has told me that this whole divorce thing is her fault. She doesn't say this calmly. She is irate. Let me try and help you understand. She has gone as far as to say and I quote.
> " I'm gonna take my gun and stick it up your mama's P***Y hole and pull the trigger and I hope James D**K is in it when I do" ..... James is my moms husband. I am very embarassed to even tell you that but I wanted to get my point across. The point of this is to tell you how low below the belt she can hit. I have listened to N.W.A, Eminem, 2 live crew. I have never heard anything so disturbing, ever. Also, you are saying you don't like always having family come on vacation. this would have been the first time in 10 years my mom has ever been on vacation with us and like I originally posted. She was gonna come for a couple of hours of one day.



Your W needs to have herself committed. I would look to D after such a statement. Your W appears to hold a deep resentment towards your parents. For what is the question.


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## Marriage1724 (Oct 4, 2015)

Thank you all for the feedback. It has helped me understand a lot of things.the list for the BPD questions was spot on. All of them pertained to her. I took the advise and tried to sit and talk to her. I really cannot get a rational explanation from her. She just says my mom ruined her life and she will never forgive her. ( but then she'll want to talk about going to church this Sunday even though she is incapable of forgiving). Anyway, there was the question of why so much resentment towards my parents. It's not my parents just my mom and now my sister. When I ask her what exactly did my mom do to you to deserve to be just totally disrespected and written off and alienated from children. She says these things:
My mom ruined her vacation.
( this was about what I originally posted)
My mom cut her rabbit fir jacket.
( been saying this for 6 years, no evidence what so ever. Her jacket has a small tear in it and she thinks mom is jealous of it and couples that with the fact that my mom loves animals and that is all the proof she needs)
My mom burned her hair.
( wow, my mom is a cosmetologist, when we first got married 10 years ago she got my mom to color her hair. She didn't like the turnout and I told her that's ok just don't ask her to do again. We never said anything to mom. She said that her hair was burned. She now says that mom did it on purpose). 
Also, her and my mom got into a heated argument about 7 years ago in our home. My moms ex husband was a very confrontational person who started a conversation that should have never been started. It was a racial issue. not going to go to details but my mom got a little angry and went off on both my wife and her own husband. I talked to my mom about it next day and told her not to ever do that with my wife in our house again. I didn't do this in front of my wife because that's just the type of rational person I am. My w didn't really believe me because of her trust issues. But like I said it was 7 years ago. So as you can see... She never forgives and never ever forgets. Other than that nothing else has happened. Oh yeah... Let me tell you about this because I use it to make a point all the time. About 3.5 years ago my son was a baby. He had this green rubber ball with holes in it. Well, it came up missing. My W came to me and said... You know, I think your mom took our sons green ball because I can't find it. I tried to rationalize with her and said. Honey, why would my mom do that? She said maybe she wanted to have something of his at her house. I said whatever cause I knew there was no way to win. Well, luckily I found that ball inside of our fireplace 2 weeks later. I presented it to W and asked for an apology. She blew it off like it wasn't important. But I guarantee you had I not have found that ball it would be on that damn list to. This is soooo stupid. Most people fight over money or infidelity but no we have to find things to argue about. It's very exhausting.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Marriage1724 said:


> I took the advise and tried to sit and talk to her. I really cannot get a rational explanation from her.


Marriage, if you decide she is exhibiting strong BPD traits, I strongly encourage you NOT to discuss it with her. If she really does have strong BPD traits, she almost certainly will project your accusation back onto you. Because the projection will occur entirely at the subconscious level, she will be adamantly convinced that YOU are the BPDer.

As to any other sensitive matters (and, with BPDers, nearly every issue is sensitive), you have ten seconds or less before her anger will be triggered by your attempt to rationally discuss it. Of course, there are absolutely no important issues that can be discussed and resolved in ten seconds. If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), her intention during serious discussions is to CREATE DRAMA, not to FIND SOLUTIONS.



> She says these things: My mom ruined her vacation.... cut her rabbit fir jacket.... burned her hair.... took our sons green ball.


What you're describing is paranoia, which is a tendency on the part of an individual toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others. If you check the list of nine defining traits for BPD (i.e., the list shown in the APA's diagnostic manual), you will find that "Having stress-related paranoid thoughts" is the ninth trait on that list. See 9 BPD Traits at NIMH Website.



> It was 7 years ago. So as you can see... She never forgives and never ever forgets.


If she is a BPDer, she has a powerful desire to frequently obtain "validation" of her always being "The Victim," a false self image that she will maintain a death grip on because it is the closest thing she has to a lasting self image. This is why BPDers keep a list in their heads of every offense (real or imagined) attributable to their partners. 

The BPDer typically will pull out that entire list during most arguments, no matter how trivial the disagreement. The point of it all, of course, is to keep establishing her role as "The Victim." My BPDer exW, for example, would frequently bring up perceived injustices that had occurred (in her mind) ten or 15 years earlier as a way of rationalizing her hostile response to a minor comment or infraction.


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## Marriage1724 (Oct 4, 2015)

Ok, will she ever change! If she doesn't the I want out. It is driving me crazy. We are at the beginning stages of divorce and because I have finally made this decision, even though the D word comes out of her mouth every day only difference is I'm not bluffing, she now is very adamant that there is another woman. The other day I wanted to go to the tanning bed because I pay monthly and she said yeah because you are screwing around on me. But I never say anything about when she gets her nails and hair done. 2 Saturday's ago she finally went out with an old friend and she wasn't going to go unless she was able to get nails done that day so WTF. There is no reasoning with her. The controlling, possessive and isolating is at peak all the time. I don't even want to go out with friends or even family because I will get the cold shoulder later which after a day or so turns into a raging argument... HELP!!!!!!!!!!


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