# Husband Caught Masturbating to Pornography



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Topic Closed


----------



## Bellagumby (Jun 15, 2018)

I think its normal but maybe you need to see what he was watching and spice it up.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I probably should have mentioned that pornography is not something I will engage in and that is something my husband was aware of long before we were married.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

There are lots of opinions on this - which I'm sure you will hear.

Does he often turn you down for sex? Do you often turn him down? When you do have sex does he try to please you? Is your sex life generally good and varied? 

IMHO, porn and masturbation are OK if they are not interfering with a couple's sex life ,but a problem if they are. In particular I think that if one person on average has a higher sex drive, it is fine for them to masturbate and use porn to make up the difference. (sort of a "right of first refusal", if you turn someone down for sex, its OK for them to take care of themselves.

OTOH some people do get addicted to porn and start preferring it over sex with their partners. I see that as a huge problem. 


As long as its legal, I have no concerns about what specific type of porn someone watches, it just fantasy.

Other people will disagree.


----------



## Wolowitz (Mar 27, 2016)

Guys like looking at naked women. This has been the case since forever. Masturbation is normal, even in a marriage. Provided his activities are not having a negative effect on the frequency and quality of your sex life who cares? Why don't you offer to watch it together?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Curious, why are you so emotionally destroyed by this?

What is it about porn that rocks you to your core and brings you to tears because your husband watched some?

Does it make you feel bad about yourself some how? If so, why? Why does it bother you so much?

I admit, personally, I have zero issue with it. I masturbate, my husband masturbates. Porn doesn't do much for me, so I don't use it, but I understand men are visual creatures and the vast majority indulge in porn from time to time. 

It doesn't affect my feelings of self worth, nor how I feel about my husband, nor my perceptions on how he feels about me. 

As for your husband, yes, I imagine he has always hid his porn viewing from you, because he knew you would have a strong reaction and it wasn't something he felt safe to tell you. 

I think adults should be allowed to masturbate the way that they enjoy. Even in marriage, I think most people need to have a little bit of their life that is private to only them.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Uhtred, I'm sure I will too, lol.

No, we don't typically turn each other down for sex. I would say our sex life is good and he does make efforts to please me as do I. I've even engaged in some acts that I do not personally enjoy but I know please him. So, I don't feel like the "right of refusal" has had to be applied. 

I have wondered if he struggled with porn addiction since he does have what I would call an addictive personality. This leads me back to the main point of trust being broken. I can't stand lies and secrecy. This is why I can't seem to forget what he did. I"m worried I will be lied to again.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

So now you know that your husband, like most husbands, watches at least a little pornography.

Can you live with this? If no, why not? Because he isn't likely to stop, but only go underground. Your chance of finding another man who tells you he does not is high; your chance of find a many who _really_ does not do this is not zero, but it's not exactly encouraging either.

If he's a good lover, treats you well, and meets all of the duties which you require of a husband, perhaps it's time to reassess your position.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I shouldnthave, I don't want to get hung up on this being strictly and issue of him possibly being addicted to porn. I have personal reasons for not approving of porn which my husband has been well aware of before we got married and knew my stance on. The issue I"m struggling more with is his dishonesty in our married. He's been dishonest about other things not relating to porn at all. 

I don't have poor self-esteem so him watching it didn't make me feel bad about myself. It upset me that I caught him in yet another lie after we had just rebuilt trust. What might he be dishonest about next, you know?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I can't stand lies and secrecy. This is why I can't seem to forget what he did. I"m worried I will be lied to again.


If you want to understand why he lied, look no further than your reaction. 

I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, it is your choice, but I have no doubt that he knew this.


----------



## His_Response (Jun 14, 2018)

Speaking as a husband that is still madly in love and lust with his wife after 28 years of marriage, I can say that you should not confuse his looking at porn for a 'quick release' as being in any way linked to the way he feels about intimacy with you.

I've had a very high sex drive since I hit puberty; masturbation was a daily release for me... sometimes more than once a day. Sometime several times a day, when my desire were really strong. Once I got married, I thought this would change. I though surely intimacy with my wife would fill that desire and I would never masturbate again. I think that notion lasted about 6 months into our marriage, before I started again. I wanted sex daily, my wife did not. My wife is GORGEOUS, and I was walking around in a state of arousal with no relief... so I started back to taking care of myself now and then. But never did this interfere with my intimacy with my wife... and never did it lessen my desire for her. 

Today porn is available everywhere... your phone, your tablet, your computer. It's -possible- your husband is looking at porn because he has a desire that cannot be filled within the bounds of a 'normal' marriage relationship. But it's also highly likely that he simply does it out of a habit that is very difficult to break, and a temptation that is constantly there. It doesn't mean he is being unfaithful. It doesn't necessarily mean -anything- in regards to how he feels about you. 

I know, in my case, I love my wife with all my heart, and my desire for her is stronger than for any other person in the world. And she knows it. My two cents in regards to your situation; try talking to your husband about the porn, without being judgemental. Ask him what he likes about it. Ask him if there is something missing. Let him know your thoughts, and listen to his. Communication is the most important thing for a couple. He may be embarrassed and find it difficult to talk about, but he might also be relieved to be able to talk to you about it openly, and both of you might learn something about each other that will help the situation.


Yours,

H.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

neonmoon1005 said:


> It upset me that I caught him in yet another lie after we had just rebuilt trust. What might he be dishonest about next, you know?


So this is about more than just porn.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

H., I understand what you are saying, truly.

The day we walked and talked we discussed much of what you and others have suggested. My reaction and if it made him want to hide porn from me, what he likes, if there is any way he isn't being satisfied, if he has always hid this from me, if he's addicted, if he's lied to me about other things, if he's unhappy, etc. We literally talked for half the day about everything and our feelings. I think it just comes down to trust and how I can trust fully again.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Nice777guy, yes.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I forgave him for what he did but I just can't seem to move on. I love him very much so I want to find a way to heal from being so "emotionally destroyed". He doesn't know I still feel like this. I even asked him to make me a video of him masturbating so that I could "replace" the negative image I seem to have of him masturbating secretly


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Do you have reason to believe his is addicted to porn? If so, why have been the symptoms?

What were the other addictions he hid from you? Gambling? Drugs?

If its not about the porn, but the lying, why do you have nightmares about it while you have sex with him?

Do you consent to him masturbating in secret? Would that be okay with you?


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I shoulldn'thave, I found porn on the search history of our iPad years ago when we first got married and he had the job that kept him away a couple days at a time. I would say the symptoms were that his sex drive went from daily sex to once a week within a short span of time. 

He didn't really have other addictions accept chew. He has kind of an obsessive personality where he will do one thing in particular constantly for months and then move on to something else. Hopefully that makes sense. 

It is partially about the porn but i'd say more about lying. I assume the nightmare are a fear of him possibly lying again and because I never fully processed my strong emotions when I initially found out. 

I consent to him masturbating if I can't fulfill his needs for some reason.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

He's lied about other things too unrelated to addiction. Some things were dumb and others serious


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Uhtred, I'm sure I will too, lol.
> 
> No, we don't typically turn each other down for sex. I would say our sex life is good and he does make efforts to please me as do I. I've even engaged in some acts that I do not personally enjoy but I know please him. So, I don't feel like the "right of refusal" has had to be applied.
> 
> I have wondered if he struggled with porn addiction since he does have what I would call an addictive personality. This leads me back to the main point of trust being broken. I can't stand lies and secrecy. This is why I can't seem to forget what he did. I"m worried I will be lied to again.


Did he actually lie? Or was he just being secretive?

Lots of men watch - few are going to advertise it. And you really don't need consent to masturbate - needs met or not.


----------



## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

The same old same old gets boring and he wanted a release. He was probably afraid to let you know what he does because of your strong feelings against porn.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I probably should have mentioned that pornography is not something I will engage in and that is something my husband was aware of long before we were married.


That's okay that you're not into watching it, but if your husband likes to watch it occasionally, would you not allow him to do so? Is it the porn watching that bothers you, or just the fact that he was masturbating, or a combination of those 2 things?


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I consent to him masturbating *if I can't fulfill his needs for some reason*.


Well that is certainly a loaded way to "give consent". 

You know masturbation isn't the same as sex right? That it is healthy and normal? That sometimes people just need a simple release without worrying about pleasing their partner or involving anyone else?

It sounds like the way you see it, the only reason it would be okay for him to masturbate, is if there is something WRONG. 

Well of COURSE he isn't going to tell you he masturbates, if the only reason you allow him to do so is if you "can't fulfill his needs" - of course he would hide that. 

Look, people masturbate, most people masturbate. I do just about daily. I don't need to hide it from my husband because he knows its normal and healthy, and doesn't mean something negative about him or our sex life. 

Its just nice to have a private little thing to yourself sometimes. 

I feel for your husband, I don't think there is any way for him to "win" here. Basically he has to never look at porn, and never masturbate, otherwise you would be personally offended.


----------



## His_Response (Jun 14, 2018)

neonmoon1005 said:


> H., I understand what you are saying, truly.
> 
> The day we walked and talked we discussed much of what you and others have suggested. My reaction and if it made him want to hide porn from me, what he likes, if there is any way he isn't being satisfied, if he has always hid this from me, if he's addicted, if he's lied to me about other things, if he's unhappy, etc. We literally talked for half the day about everything and our feelings. I think it just comes down to trust and how I can trust fully again.



Ah, I understand. Yes, dishonesty between a couple is VERY painful. I speak from experience. I had an issue with my wife about three years ago. She lied to me about something... something important. It could have ended our marriage. It took a lot for me to forgive, but a trust broken makes you doubt, and wonder, when you don't WANT to doubt. You want to have complete trust in your mate.

For me, I had to sit my wife down and explain to her that it was NOT okay to hide anything from me, even if she thought it was to spare my feelings. It didn't happen right away... it took a couple of instances before she understood the need to be completely honest with me, but now she is, and our marriage is solid again. I won't lie; there are times now that I worry, times I wonder, because of what happened before. But she has kept her word with me and we have no secrets, and things are good. I'm sure you've told him this already, but it might take more than once for him to understand how important this is to you. Don't give up.


Yours,

H.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Nice777guy, consent isn't necessary but I am okay with it regardless. 

The same old same old gets boring and he wanted a release. He was probably afraid to let you know what he does because of your strong feelings against porn. - This is conclusion is obvious and is something we previously discussed. Naturally, he denied being bored and said it was a moment of weakness.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

His_Response said:


> Speaking as a husband that is still madly in love and lust with his wife after 28 years of marriage, I can say that you should not confuse his looking at porn for a 'quick release' as being in any way linked to the way he feels about intimacy with you.
> 
> I've had a very high sex drive since I hit puberty; masturbation was a daily release for me... sometimes more than once a day. Sometime several times a day, when my desire were really strong. Once I got married, I thought this would change. I though surely intimacy with my wife would fill that desire and I would never masturbate again. I think that notion lasted about 6 months into our marriage, before I started again. I wanted sex daily, my wife did not. My wife is GORGEOUS, and I was walking around in a state of arousal with no relief... so I started back to taking care of myself now and then. But never did this interfere with my intimacy with my wife... and never did it lessen my desire for her.
> 
> ...


This here, is really well said, sir! :smthumbup:


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

In order for someone to be 100% truthful and vulnerable to their partner, they need to feel safe to do so. Not be judged, taken the wrong way etc.

I see two choices for this man, never masturbate again (I know I wouldn't be able to do that!) or hide it from his wife. 

OP - can you accept the fact that he may want to masturbate and that is not a reflection of you? That it has nothing to do with you? That sometimes people need a little privacy even if they are married? That touching one's self is totally natural and normal? 

That your husband should't feel like it is wrong, or guilty, or that he has to hide the fact that he masturbates? 

I wonder if the other things he kept in secret had the same kind of loaded no win situation.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I shouldn'thave, you are misunderstanding.

I am obviously aware masturbation and sex are two completely differen't things. It's scientifically proven to be a healthy, normal, and positive act which I am not opposed to. 

I would find it to be "wrong" if he was masturbating to avoid having sex on a regular basis. 

There's nothing for my husband to "win". It's not an argument. My husband is a big boy. If he wanted to watch porn then I would have expected him to tell me this long ago when we discussed porn, sex, intimacy, etc. before we were even married. 

But, he can lose my trust and the point here is that this was just one more way on top of many others he hurt my trust in him.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

His_Response, yes, exactly.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I shouldn'thave, you are misunderstanding.
> 
> I am obviously aware masturbation and sex are two completely differen't things. It's scientifically proven to be a healthy, normal, and positive act which I am not opposed to.
> 
> ...


To help you out with this, you may need to divulge what broke your trust earlier in the marriage. Also, if you're still dwelling over this months later, and are having trust issues, have you considered going to talk to a therapist? Maybe a couple counsellor for you and your husband so you can finally get over these trust issues once and for all?


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Ursula, we have discussed what broke my trust and I actually have visited the therapist. Unfortunately, these things haven't helped much for some reason. I suppose when you have been lied so many times over so many years the healing process can take a lot of time.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Certainly there must be bigger issues at play here. Finding your husband fapping to porn in a tub shouldn't be traumatizing. Might be a little unexpected sure, but its not like the mind movies people talk about after walking in on their spouse banging another man/woman.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld 11, yes there are. I could give examples but I really don't even want to get into it


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Ursula, we have discussed what broke my trust and I actually have visited the therapist. Unfortunately, these things haven't helped much for some reason. I suppose when you have been lied so many times over so many years the healing process can take a lot of time.


I'll be honest - reading your thread, I am not convinced that the problem isn't really just as simple as you don't want him masturbating to porn. You didn't start a thread entitled "My husband has been so dishonest over the course of our marriage that I can no longer trust him". You started a thread "Husband Caught Masturbating to Pornography". 

I really do get the feeling that you're back pedaling in the face of stiff resistance. Am I wrong?


----------



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

The trust issues you have may have set this off. I know W and I are going through lists of that right now. I’m still trying to stay in relationship and she says she’s in for the long haul. The trust thing has pretty much made me ambivalent to “us” after 30+ years...

The mastrubation thing is normal. It was morning you were leaving, sometimes men need release, it hurts if we don’t cum occasionally, I know in the morning I hurt, but don’t take things that far for other reasons. Get him a mastrubator for use if you’re not around. A picture book of you would be a nice thing also. My wife would never consent to any of that. You already made a video, pictures would be easy.

Good luck with the trust thing. It doesn’t sound like sex is the issue.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I guess this just boils down to me needing to sit down and talk to him again but really I think he will just be dishonest again. So, that leads me to considering marital counseling which he won't agree to. He told me he wasn't lying because at that point he knew his dishonestly had dug him into a huge hole, but something just feels off . . . and I dont' know if it's must me or not. True, that that day he knew he hadnothing to lose and should just fess up to any lies he may have told but I think he's lied for so long that it's not so easy for him to come clean now.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Cletus, you may be right.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Thanks Uselessmale, I'd be up for making a doing a photo shoot for sure. He and I already purchased a toy for him. Good luck to you too


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Uselessmale said:


> The trust issues you have may have set this off. I know W and I are going through lists of that right now. I’m still trying to stay in relationship and she says she’s in for the long haul. The trust thing has pretty much made me ambivalent to “us” after 30+ years...
> 
> The mastrubation thing is normal. It was morning you were leaving, sometimes men need release, it hurts if we don’t cum occasionally, I know in the morning I hurt, but don’t take things that far for other reasons. Get him a mastrubator for use if you’re not around. A picture book of you would be a nice thing also. My wife would never consent to any of that. You already made a video, pictures would be easy.
> 
> Good luck with the trust thing. It doesn’t sound like sex is the issue.


Woah, you actually did make that video? If my STBXW would have done something like that I'd be set for quite some time


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Stillfightingforus, you would think


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Stillfightingforus, you would think


Would think but I am also hoping .... for the both you. You are taking this in stride and doing things that offer an incentive for him. That's more than what most could ask for. Good Luck!


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Have you found porn or caught him lying in the last 10 months?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

When it comes to disliking porn use, the best advice on this topic that I know of comes from Dan Savage. 

Your husband pretends that he doesn't use porn, and you pretend to believe him. His part of the bargain is to make sure that you never have to "discover" that he does it except by accident - no leaving web pages open, cleaning his browser history, keeping his videos or magazines if he has any in a discreetly hidden location. Your part of the bargain is to not snoop unnecessarily to uncover the white lie.

In other words, agree to disagree, but respectfully. 

All of this is predicated on having an otherwise healthy sex life with a willing partner who is able and attentive to your needs and not abusing porn. Because if you have that, then you have basically everything you could reasonably expect sexually out of a mate. The rest is just a difference of opinion.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Cletus, interesting as well as slightly amusing.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Nice777guy, no I haven't. Although I doubt he'd ever let me catch him again. That's usually an error that's only made once


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

The hiding it part and looking at other women on his phone are what would worry me too. He waited until he thought you had left the home and then got busy. Why did he lie to you about it in the first place?

While I don't think there is anything wrong with masturbation, but doing it to porn can detract from the marriage. Also sneaking around looking at porn and masturbating to it can affect the marriage in different ways.

I hope your husband is being honest about it now.

How do you feel about your sex life? If it is not what you would like, I would look deeper into the porn. Is he willing to be honest with you and tell you when he masturbates if you ask? Is he committing to not looking at porn? Do you believe him?


----------



## NJ2 (Mar 22, 2017)

I understand how you are feeling. My H has lied to me before breaking my trust and continues to do it on occasion. His reasoning is always the same- well I thought you would be mad if I did x,y, or z. He lies to avoid conflict. I do react strongly to things. It doesnt make it easier knowing that I am partially to blame. We have been to MC and discussed this issue amongst others and MC said he is a habitual liar and will without a doubt continue to use it as an "escape" from the marriage... she says it often is developed by having a parent that is very judgemental and overly strict while growing up- they lie to avoid consequences, punishment and judgement. She said if I was to continue in the marriage I have to except the fact that his behaviour will most likely continue.

Sometimes it is difficult. Sometimes I am ok knowing that its his issue and my happiness doesnt depend on him being 100% honest. Everyone lies. Some people lie more than others. I have done alot of reading on this. There are some good sites on line about "deception." Its a bit of an eyeopener.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Araucaria, the secrecy is a definite problem. It does concern me that porn may be why his drive is lower. But that can also just be because of time that has passed and work.

That's the problem. I can't tell anymore if he is honest or not. I just don't know anymore.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

1005 have you ever tried counseling with him, sorry if I missed that?


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Maybe it's not so much that you can't move forward, but that now you perpetually fear him lying to you again, which is understandable. I don't think all men are into porn, if they have good sex lives, and love their wives. I think that's a cultural narrative that we have come to accept. ''Everybody does it,'' sort of like what we said as kids, when we wanted our parents to accept something we were doing, that we know wasn't the best choice.

Porn viewing isn't abnormal, I don't think that, but it shouldn't be viewed as ''every man does this so get over it,'' either. 

I think that it probably has more to do with his lying, though, if you can't get past it.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

This is slightly off topic but a question for the men here.

The other day I was on the last day of my period but I gave him oral sex just for fun. We always shower before sex and I keep very clean and trimmed. Usually we keep things "even", but during he barely touched me anywhere and didn't let me take care of myself.

Now, I'm not saying that I always expect/need reciprocation, but it's kind of nice. I mean, if he's taking care of me I always get turned on and can't keep my hands off of him.

I'm probably just reading into things to much here . . .


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

He won't attending counseling


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

neonmoon1005 said:


> This is slightly off topic but a question for the men here.
> 
> The other day I was on the last day of my period but I gave him oral sex just for fun. We always shower before sex and I keep very clean and trimmed. Usually we keep things "even", but during he barely touched me anywhere and didn't let me take care of myself.
> 
> ...


What do you mean he didn't let you take care of yourself? And what are his reasons for not attending counseling? Sorry for the return volley of questions


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Stillfightingforus, that's alright. I mean I didn't get to orgasm. 

He says counseling doesn't work and that you are only told what you want to hear.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

He didn't ''let'' you take care of yourself, and didn't want to please you? You don't have to listen to him, neon.  

I really feel sad for some of the relationship dynamics I read on here. They sound honestly abusive. (emotionally/mentally, if nothing else)


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Deidre, I should have worded that differently, Trust me when I say that I do what I want regardless of what other say/think. 

"let" was Poor choice of words. He simply didn't offer to pleasure me.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Okay.... 

Ummm, first your husband does not sound like he has a PORN addiction. It sounds like he has a lack of respect for YOUR sexual needs or desires. 

My husband if he whacks off a bunch porn or no porn it does AND WILL effect our sex life. When he does use porn chronically he becomes MORE selfish in the sac. 

That said, I have too viewed his porn use as betrayal of trust and LIES and felt as you that he is an addict. Truth is I had unreasonable expectations to ban porn and equate it to betrayal. The betrayal is the lack of respect for how it impacts the sex life. 

I dont think you will EVER get him to quit because truth is I dont think he is an addict. 

Best I could do was have reasonable expectations and vice versa.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

*Deidre* said:


> Maybe it's not so much that you can't move forward, but that now you perpetually fear him lying to you again, which is understandable. I don't think all men are into porn, if they have good sex lives, and love their wives. I think that's a cultural narrative that we have come to accept. ''Everybody does it,'' sort of like what we said as kids, when we wanted our parents to accept something we were doing, that we know wasn't the best choice.
> 
> Porn viewing isn't abnormal, I don't think that, but it shouldn't be viewed as ''every man does this so get over it,'' either.
> 
> I think that it probably has more to do with his lying, though, if you can't get past it.


My husband used it at first because he didn't know that I was a willing partner any time he wanted. He felt "guilty" asking me for sex so much (in his mind.) He was also using it to avoid "needing" me, according to him.

Later he used it like someone uses alcohol or drugs, to avoid his own anxiety from work, feelings of inadequacy, children/marriage stress, etc.

He was a conflict avoider, but the conflict he was avoiding still got to him and he needed a release, and he thought masturbating to porn was a good release. Then he felt ashamed about his "secret" and so he needed to do it because of that stress...the cycle was self perpetuating.

Now he tries to be open about things, as much as he is able. No need for porn, or masturbation. It took him knowing I was going to leave him if he didn't get "real" with me and stop all the secret sh*t, whatever it was.

He likes himself better now.


----------



## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

This is always such a difficult topic because of the opposing views on porn. 

It is understandable how much the betrayal of trust hurts and it is unfortunate that your husband could not be honest with you from the very beginning about his interest in porn. Considering your aversion to it however, it is not surprising that he withheld this from you. 

You say that he should have been honest about it in the beginning, but seriously, how would you have responded if he did OP? 

I don't know how realistic it is to expect a spouse to cut off porn consumption. It's more likely that said spouse would simply hide their use. As a previous poster pointed out, this dynamic of men lying about their porn use is extremely common: https://fightthenewdrug.org/the-porn-gap-men-and-women-porn-patterns/

My guess is that these men are in similar situations like your husband. Perhaps it's best to confront the issue head on and do what you two should have done from the jump - be honest about the fact that he does use porn. Otherwise, risk feeling betrayed again in the future in the event you inadvertently stumble upon his porn use again.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP, you need to think hard about your feelings on this. 

It is extremely unlikely he will stop masturbating, that is not something that is expected even in marriage. Given that he has been watching porn, I think it is very unlikely he will actually stop. Your attempts to forbid him to use porn will likely cause him to lie about it again, and once lies start, its easy for them to continue and spread.

In an ideal world people would never lie in marriage, but that requires an acceptance by both parties that the other may be a flawed human being (as we all are) but that they are loved anyway. There are still of course some things that most people won't tolerate, violence, drugs, cheating etc, but most minor failings will be tolerated.

If you do not want to be with a man who watches porn, the I think you need to divorce because that is where this will go. After all, if you catch him again, what are you going to do except divorce?


I don't know what he lied about in the past. If it was an affair, then it sounds like you have never reconciled on that (which is OK) but THAT is what you should divorce for, not the porn.


Realistically you can accept him as he is, divorce him, or assume that he will simply lie and hide things better the next time. There is nothing you can do to *force* him to stop masturbating and watching porn (or doing anything else hew wants to do).


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Araucaria, that's very interesting. 

I don't think this profile fits my husband though since he definitely does not avoid conflict. He's very outspoken and direct.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Araucaria, that's very interesting.
> 
> I don't think this profile fits my husband though since he definitely does not avoid conflict. He's very outspoken and direct.


He was avoiding conflict 10 months ago.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Keke, My husband knows how I feel about porn. My husband is a very "head on" kind of person. Another person's reaction shouldn't be an excuse for dishonesty and my husband generally doesn't care how another person feels about something he does if he enjoys it and wants to do it. That's just how he has always been. I am the same way. 

I'm not blind to the ways of men or people in general and porn. I just disagree with it. 

I just want him to admit to it so we can discuss it further but I guess I know deep down he will never do that. 

So, this all leaves me to think about my next step.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OP, you re going to get skewed responses here because the.most vocal men here feel about porn the way ******** do about the 2nd Amendment.

Theres nothing wrong with with not wanting your husband to look at porn. It doesnt make you a prude or a freak.

And NO not ALL men use porn.

Theres a story here about someone misrepresenting their virginity, and the number of affronted responses is enormous.

He knew how you felt. He knew it was important to you. He misrepresented himself. Simple. AND he apparently lies about a lot of things.

You want get much agreement because "muh porn!"

But theres nothing wrong with your values.

Nothing.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

personofinterest said:


> OP, you re going to get skewed responses here because the.most vocal men here feel about porn the way ******** do about the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with with not wanting your husband to look at porn. It doesnt make you a prude or a freak.
> 
> ...


Porn is fairly normal for married men, but I understand and respect that some people object to it having any place in their marriage. If her husband knew this and agreed to it, then this is all on him.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> OP, you re going to get skewed responses here because the.most vocal men here* feel about porn the way ******** do about the 2nd Amendment*.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with with not wanting your husband to look at porn. It doesnt make you a prude or a freak.


Wow! Just wow! 

Do some introspection on how dismissive and provocative your comment/comparison really is.

Have a thoughtful polite conversation, don't try to stereotype people.

Good luck. May I suggest some IC


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I just spoke to my husband and he told me he's not lying and wont' anymore. He said the time I caught him was the one and only time he did it since marriage. 

Now it's simply my choice to forget what happened or tell him I can't trust him fully again and divorce.

Thank you to those who gave advice.


----------



## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Have you considered that there is a difference between secrecy and privacy?

Is a spouse to not get any privacy whatsoever?


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

If this is something you would seriously consider divorce over - well, I guess that is very telling about the state of your marriage.


----------



## 241happyhour (Jan 31, 2011)

Lighten up. It’s not like he was in the tub with Kim Kardashian.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

241happyhour said:


> Lighten up. It’s not like he was in the tub with Kim Kardashian.


I'm getting the feeling that people are not reading the full context and thread. She has said repeatedly it's not about the porn itself, it's the prior honesty issues and she is willing and able to act out real life 'porn' for him.


----------



## Trident (May 23, 2018)

This is very upsetting. 

One slip of the hand and that cellphone would be toast.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I just spoke to my husband and he told me he's not lying and wont' anymore. He said the time I caught him was the one and only time he did it since marriage.
> 
> Now it's simply my choice to forget what happened or tell him I can't trust him fully again and divorce.
> 
> Thank you to those who gave advice.


Ouch. I had high hopes that this could be nipped in the bud but damn that comment by him. I find it very hard to believe and while he's not a cheater, that was taken out of the cheaters vocal handbook. The only time he did it was the only time you caught him? Uh, no.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Lying about watching porn = he is having sex with other women. 

Got it. 

OP - I guess you are trying to tell us, all of this really has nothing to do with porn, or masturbating, but the fact that your husband repeatedly lies to you.

You still haven't said what he lied to you about in the past, but I guess it was something so significant, that you can never get over it, and now it has brewed to the point you are considering divorce. 

Personally, given your stance and reaction, I TOTALLY understand why he would be compelled to lie about his porn and masturbation habits. 

I sincerely hope what he lied to you about in the past is much more significant - because I am sure you know marriages are hard work, and take compromise, understanding, and communication. And that when the couple hits rough waters, they have to remember why they married in the first place, and work hard, together to restore the marriage.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > OP, you re going to get skewed responses here because the.most vocal men here* feel about porn the way ******** do about the 2nd Amendment*.
> ...


Hey, calm down. I'm married to a VERY hot ******* who loves his guns, and it's fine by me. But feel free to ASSume all you want.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Does he have a problem being intimate when you are on your period? That is not uncommon and if that is what was going on, it sounds like a completely different issue.

Have you had problems with him not wanting to please you at other times?

(not addressing whether or not its OK to turn someone down during their period, but I think its a different question from the main one).




neonmoon1005 said:


> This is slightly off topic but a question for the men here.
> 
> The other day I was on the last day of my period but I gave him oral sex just for fun. We always shower before sex and I keep very clean and trimmed. Usually we keep things "even", but during he barely touched me anywhere and didn't let me take care of myself.
> 
> ...


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Has he been dishonest about other things? Is there some back-story here. (I may have missed a post).




neonmoon1005 said:


> Keke, My husband knows how I feel about porn. My husband is a very "head on" kind of person. Another person's reaction shouldn't be an excuse for dishonesty and my husband generally doesn't care how another person feels about something he does if he enjoys it and wants to do it. That's just how he has always been. I am the same way.
> 
> I'm not blind to the ways of men or people in general and porn. I just disagree with it.
> 
> ...


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think its very unlikely that this is the first time he has done it - or the last .

So, many years ago my wife caught me with porn and was very upset. She didn't like the "dishonesty". I was hiding it because I knew that she would object. OTOH, I felt fully justified using porn because I never turned her down for sex and she frequently turned me down. 

She found it unacceptable. So, I had a choice: I could stop watching porn, watch porn and tell her, leaving her constantly upset, watch porn and lie about it, or divorce her. 

On consideration I decided that watching porn was *my* business as long as it didn't interfere with our sex life, and that she had no right to tell me to stop. So I continue to watch and don't tell her. 

Being older and wiser now, if she finds out / and / or brings it up again, my response would now be simple:

"I will stop watching porn if you agree to have sex with me the majority of times I want it. If you don't agree to that, I will keep watching and we can divorce or not as you wish". 


Earlier I lied to try to reduce stress. I no longer think that was the right answer. 









neonmoon1005 said:


> I just spoke to my husband and he told me he's not lying and wont' anymore. He said the time I caught him was the one and only time he did it since marriage.
> 
> Now it's simply my choice to forget what happened or tell him I can't trust him fully again and divorce.
> 
> Thank you to those who gave advice.


----------



## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

Why do you feel entitled to make this decision for him? He's perfectly free to not share your values on the issue. What if he told you that you must accept his values and consume porn? Would you have the right to "disobey" that?


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Ursula, we have discussed what broke my trust and I actually have visited the therapist. Unfortunately, these things haven't helped much for some reason. I suppose when you have been lied so many times over so many years the healing process can take a lot of time.


So you never lie?

You indicated in an eairler post that he is unaware how emotionaly destroyed you are over this.

Is that lying by omision or at the least seceretive?


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

nice777guy said:


> He was avoiding conflict 10 months ago.


Yep. And he probably did it last week too. That is his natural way. If he doesn't make a real effort, and process his thoughts and feelings, he goes right back to that.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

LOL at calling me a bigot. How utterly ridiculous.

What a cool dude


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

michzz said:


> Have you considered that there is a difference between secrecy and privacy?
> 
> Is a spouse to not get any privacy whatsoever?


There is a difference. A person has a right to go to the bathroom by him or herself, and that is privacy. Looking at porn when the other person doesn't want other women in the marriage through porn is about secrecy.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Well I think this really comes down to not porn but the husbands willingness to BE honest about this. What is the wife's reaction? If he perceives her to have an "Over reactive reaction" this may make him feel there is no positive to honesty or calm reasonable discussion. 

OP. when you discuss this are you in any way talking down to him, lecturing him, or yelling? Anyway... I dont know how to help you other than say I felt as you once did and it hurt when he would say that he would not promise to not use because he knew he would break it. I had to realize for my husband a monthly or occasional romp through porn hub was an inevitability that I put up with. And I got to say, it does not bother me provided it does not mess with my sex life. 

I think compromises need to be made if the marriage is to continue. He is fighting nature, you are fighting morals.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

As I see it....

When he married you, you took ownership of him.
All of him.

His penis is yours'.
You let him pee out of it 'only'.

If he wants to pleasure himself with your' property he needs to ask for your permission.

It is a jealousy thing.
It is a control thing.

You own him.
.........................................................................

The solution? 
Pick one.

1) Get one of those lockable penis cages.
2) Give him back his six inches.




The Martian-


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

threelittlestars said:


> Well I think this really comes down to not porn but the husbands willingness to BE honest about this. What is the wife's reaction? If he perceives her to have an "Over reactive reaction" this may make him feel there is no positive to honesty or calm reasonable discussion.
> 
> OP. when you discuss this are you in any way talking down to him, lecturing him, or yelling? Anyway... I dont know how to help you other than say I felt as you once did and it hurt when he would say that he would not promise to not use because he knew he would break it. I had to realize for my husband a monthly or occasional romp through porn hub was an inevitability that I put up with. And I got to say, it does not bother me provided it does not mess with my sex life.
> 
> I think compromises need to be made if the marriage is to continue. He is fighting nature, *you are fighting morals.*


Some morals are meaningful.
Some 'morels' should be harvested, eaten, swallowed, digested and pooped out.

At least he is not beating a dead horse.
.......................................................................................................

Plus, most of what others have said on this topic.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> Some morals are meaningful.
> Some 'morels' should be harvested, eaten, swallowed, digested and pooped out.
> 
> At least he is not beating a dead horse.
> ...


(Bad humor deleted)


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> OP, you re going to get skewed responses here because the.most vocal men here feel about porn the way ******** do about the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with with not wanting your husband to look at porn. It doesnt make you a prude or a freak.
> 
> ...


Honesty is important but I suspect most people have secrets. You spend a lifetime getting to know each other. 

Porn usage and masturbation are very personal. I can understand someone concealing those. If it is really important to OP that her husband not do this, and he is like every male I know, then the stakes are high, and he will struggle to comply. Yes he should be honest, but I imagine they are headed for divorce. As is any subsequent marriage she attempts. 

This is not a defence of porn. Just a recognition of what I believe is reality.


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Provided that he's normally meeting your sexual needs, @neonmoon1005 ~ I wouldn't be too awfully concerned about it!

But if for some reason he is not, then I'd greatly think that marriage counseling would be in order!*


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> OP, you re going to get skewed responses here because the.most vocal men here feel about porn the way ******** do about the 2nd Amendment.
> 
> Theres nothing wrong with with not wanting your husband to look at porn. It doesnt make you a prude or a freak.
> 
> ...


While I agree 100% with what you have written, your' putting the 2d amendment in the same category as porn is offensive.

In many of my earlier posts I spoke out against porn and it's obvious deleterious affects on the moral fabric of our society.
................................................................................................................

Before.....

Before, you had to buy porn [magazines] in certain stores. You needed to be 18 years old.
Now, it is available to any boy or girl on the world wide web. 

Porn's effect is to normalize Bohemian type behavior.
Have fun, be merry, screw everyone and anyone.
Do whatever feels good.

If a baby is conceived, abort it or let some stranger raise it. 
We cannot let anything get in the way of fun and games.

Instead of enjoying life in short spurts, little jiggle wiggles, it becomes balls to the wall, slam down the men into the dirt.

.............................................................................................................................

I do agree, that this lifestyle would be fun while it lasts.
It would.

But there is only so much fun to enjoy before the Grim Reaper wipes out whole generations of feel gooders.

Why get married when the sex is so 'available'.
.............................................................................................................................

Those who do not 'join in'?

They will be the ones to foot the bill, to clean up the mess.

.............................................................................................................................

It is not only shallow men and women we must fear....
And what they reap, all about us.

It is the microbes that they set into motion. The bacteria and viruses that they loose, that they embolden, morph, empower with their rampant copulation.
Think HIV/AIDS, and worse.

It is war, folks.

War.

At every level of existence.

Rampant porn has led to artificial sex toys to realistic plastic men and women. Robots of pleasure. Talking to you, all that is here.

I love sex, I do. 
But, I fear what is next and next and next.


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I guess this just boils down to me needing to sit down and talk to him again but really I think he will just be dishonest again. So, that leads me to considering marital counseling which he won't agree to. He told me he wasn't lying because at that point he knew his dishonestly had dug him into a huge hole, but something just feels off . . . and I dont' know if it's must me or not. True, that that day he knew he hadnothing to lose and should just fess up to any lies he may have told but I think he's lied for so long that it's not so easy for him to come clean now.




It most certainly is you. If you are seriously considering marriage counseling over your husband keeping his masturbating a secret from you, you should honestly take a step back and do some self-evaluation. Your reaction to this is completely over the top, and just... wrong. If your sexual needs are met, what gives you the right to dictate to your husband how he handles his body? Why do you feel justified in doing so? Instead of marriage counseling, I would recommend seeing a counselor to combat your low self esteem and control issues. These will be a much greater threat to your marriage than your husband masturbating to porn every so often...


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Someone tried to do a study comparing men who watch porn with men who have never watched it.

They had to call off the study because *they couldn't find any men who had never watched porn*.

No, I'm not making this up: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/6709646/All-men-watch-porn-scientists-find.html

Please try to get over this hangup of yours.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OP, I am sorry people have dismissed your pain and reduced your thread to a porn-advocacy running joke 😞

It's pretty insensitive.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"this may make him feel there is no positive to honesty or calm reasonable discussion. "

Funny I thought honesty was about HOOD CHARACTER


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> OP, I am sorry people have dismissed your pain and reduced your thread to a porn-advocacy running joke 😞
> 
> It's pretty insensitive.


Acceptance that porn is incredibly common is not advocacy. 

While there is certainly a question of honesty in this thread, there is also some sense that masturbating to porn has become grounds for divorce. This is serious stuff, and surely it’s better to help OP think carefully before she jumps, rather than encourage her in what many of us see as an absolutely massive over reaction.

You say there are men who don’t use porn. How do you know? Seriously. I know some guys who try not to, but I don’t know anyone who has totally succeeded.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> "this may make him feel there is no positive to honesty or calm reasonable discussion. "
> 
> Funny I thought honesty was about HOOD CHARACTER


Even a person with GOOD CHARACTER gets scared and can do fear based actions. 

Think of a kid who has an alcoholic father that beats them. Kid broke something and knows dad will beat him and "OVER REACT", think the kid will lie? Bet your bottom! Is the kid a BAD KID WITH BAD CHARACTER? NO!! 

so um.... Yeah.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Porn is immoral and certainly against wedding vows. It is just a terrible insult against a marital sexual relationship, which is really sad because sex in marriage is perhaps one of the greatest gifts from our creator. Hearing about men needing their "release" is just a shameful and pitiful excuse.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Op, I think you should encourage your husband to get help.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Porn is immoral and certainly against wedding vows. It is just a terrible insult against a marital sexual relationship, which is really sad because sex in marriage is perhaps one of the greatest gifts from our creator. Hearing about men needing their "release" is just a shameful and pitiful excuse.


Speak for yourself pal, my wife and I are atheists. Pornography wasn't against our wedding vows. Plus neither of us think pornography is immoral, since it isn't a terrible insult against marital sexual relationships at all.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Personal said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Porn is immoral and certainly against wedding vows. It is just a terrible insult against a marital sexual relationship, which is really sad because sex in marriage is perhaps one of the greatest gifts from our creator. Hearing about men needing their "release" is just a shameful and pitiful excuse.
> ...


Your vows were to "forsake all others except for our porno fantasy lovers.. "? How beautiful 😉 lol


----------



## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Op, I think you should encourage your husband to get help.


Thankfully we don't live in a theocracy. You're free to believe whatever you want, but you can't impose those beliefs onto others. Encouraging people to "get help" because they don't share your values is misguided. Didn't we learn our lesson after trying to cure homosexuality?


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> Op, I think you should encourage your husband to get help.


Have you ever used it? Do you ever masturbate?


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Wazza said:


> Have you ever used it? Do you ever masturbate?


Of course not!!!!!

Isn't it a mortal sin or something, or you'll go blind or grow hair on your hands or even worse enjoy it? :smile2:


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Personal said:


> Of course not!!!!!
> 
> Isn't it a mortal sin or something, or you'll go blind or grow hair on your hands or even worse enjoy it? :smile2:


I actually understand his point.

Masturbation involves fantasy, not always about your spouse. It’s not wrong to think about the morality of that, but it’s hard to stop. As a Baptist pastor said to me many years ago “97% of men masturbate and 3% of men lie”. 

There are also various questions over the ethics of porn production, and whether excessive porn use affects your sexuality.

But CatholicDad, if he’s honest, has almost certainly masturbated and fantasized, and has probably used porn. He’s not being honest in his comments unless he addresses that and talks about the struggles, which could be really helpful. It could give OP insight into what her husband might be dealing with.

The OPs husband does something as normal and regular as breathing or eating and is facing divorce for it. If my wife drew that line I know I couldn’t meet it. I’d have to choose between trying to hide it and divorcing.

Even the trust issues...while I am not defending lying....could have their roots in a power imbalance in the relationship. The wife could be so overpowering that the husband says what she wants to hear just to have peace. My wife and I have struggled with that in our marriage.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Wazza said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Op, I think you should encourage your husband to get help.
> ...


Are you kidding? I saw my first Playboy at 13 and LOVED IT! I've masturbated. I'm stinking in love with naked women.

A good priest in the confessional taught or reminded me about Jesus' very words which to me speak directly about porn "whoever looks at another in lust has committed adultery in his heart". I may have butchered the quote. So, I've basically weeded porn and masturbation out of my life long ago. Very glad I did. Proud of it. I think the images are gone, however the desire for the quick release probably never will.

Religion aside, I strongly believe men were never meant to 100% sexually satisfied all the time. We're meant to suffer with it, grow stronger, and basically learn self control. My wife and I had a baby recently so believe me I thought a few times how easy and convenient porn could be.

Shouldn't men be out kicking a$$ and getting stuff done rather than home and playing with themselves? I think so... I know so.

I don't think every stupid bodily desire needs fulfilment. Rather, I respect men who have self control and care for others.

One other thing. I could be masturbating tonight because my wife is gone to dinner with other ladies from church. But hell no, I'll keep my maddening, ever present sexual frustration right here where it belongs...in case my beautiful wife and lover comes home tonight looking for trouble 😉 

Isn't all of life a choice of lesser versus greater? I refrain from the lesser so that I can have the greater: a true, unfettered, and actual hot and satisfying sex life with my wife.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I should add, any other men want to weed porn out of their lives just let me know. Myself and others can walk you through it.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> Are you kidding? I saw my first Playboy at 13 and LOVED IT! I've masturbated. I'm stinking in love with naked women.
> 
> A good priest in the confessional taught or reminded me about Jesus' very words which to me speak directly about porn "whoever looks at another in lust has committed adultery in his heart". I may have butchered the quote. So, I've basically weeded porn and masturbation out of my life long ago. Very glad I did. Proud of it. I think the images are gone, however the desire for the quick release probably never will.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the honest response. 

How often do you and your wife have sex?


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Townes said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Op, I think you should encourage your husband to get help.
> ...


I can share my opinions just like you... All I'm doing. I think OP agrees porn is wrong... She knows it in her heart. Is that wrong?

You compare porn to homosexuality? Homosexuality is a million times more honorable because it is the desire to be loved- nothing wrong or to cure about that!

Porn ain't about love. Rather, sweaty pervs (like you?) yankin it and wanting to control and degrade others while relieving themselves. That ain't about love. People like you want everyone to believe that its normal and healthy.. Yeah right! Don't impose YOUR beliefs, buddy!


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> I can share my opinions just like you... All I'm doing. I think OP agrees porn is wrong... She knows it in her heart. Is that wrong?
> 
> You compare porn to homosexuality? Homosexuality is a million times more honorable because it is the desire to be loved- nothing wrong or to cure about that!
> 
> Porn ain't about love. Rather, sweaty pervs (like you?) yankin it and wanting to control and degrade others while relieving themselves. That ain't about love. People like you want everyone to believe that its normal and healthy.. Yeah right! Don't impose YOUR beliefs, buddy!


But aren't you conflating masturbation and porn here?

We are sexual beings, Is it wrong to want, or even need, sexual pleasure? Sex intertwines with love, but they are not always the same thing. And sex doesn't always work out in marriage. Partners have incompatible desires, there is ebb and flow, highs and lows. Some people have genuine issues arising from, for example, rape, or child sexual abuse. And yet we have desire, and need.

OP says she is available for the husband so he has no need of anything else. It would be interesting to know whether the husband agrees.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I just spoke to my husband and he told me he's not lying and wont' anymore. He said the time I caught him was the one and only time he did it since marriage.
> 
> Now it's simply my choice to forget what happened or tell him I can't trust him fully again and divorce.
> 
> Thank you to those who gave advice.


I sounds like your problem has been resolved. I'm glad for you. Did your husband tell you why he masturbated to porn at this point in your marriage, for the first time? If he doesn't deal with that, he will struggle with the urge to do it again.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Really FRUSTRATING to delete your OP because this thread and advice could help OTHER people in your situation. Like myself was in your situation before. 

You really killed any chance of others being helped in this VERY COMMON situation by your post. 

I can only conclude that you are embarrassed of your opinion? 

UGH...


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Wazza said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > I can share my opinions just like you... All I'm doing. I think OP agrees porn is wrong... She knows it in her heart. Is that wrong?
> ...


When you marry and vow to "forsake all others"... Yeah, its wrong. It doesn't matter what hubby thinks he is missing. He made a vow. Him having fantasy sex with porno ladies, yeah wrong. Instead, he should be thankful to have a wife who loves and desires him!

I think it ultimately a means of control. Instead of working on the marriage (maybe deal with some things), he's stepping outside it.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

tech-novelist said:


> Someone tried to do a study comparing men who watch porn with men who have never watched it.
> 
> They had to call off the study because *they couldn't find any men who had never watched porn*.
> 
> ...


There are many men who don't watch porn, they clearly didn't look very hard.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Acceptance that porn is incredibly common is not advocacy.
> 
> While there is certainly a question of honesty in this thread, there is also some sense that masturbating to porn has become grounds for divorce. This is serious stuff, and surely it’s better to help OP think carefully before she jumps, rather than encourage her in what many of us see as an absolutely massive over reaction.
> 
> You say there are men who don’t use porn. How do you know? Seriously. I know some guys who try not to, but I don’t know anyone who has totally succeeded.


 I know some, my husband being one.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

To the op I totally understand how hurt you are. I think its very unlikely that the one time you caught him was the only time, but I hope that he will stop now. There are porn blockers that you can install, so how about you suggest that to him?

Many here think that all men do it, what nonsense, and even if many do that doesn't make it ok. Many people do all sorts of damaging things. Its mental adultery with countless ladies.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Edo Edo said:


> It most certainly is you. If you are seriously considering marriage counseling over your husband keeping his masturbating a secret from you, you should honestly take a step back and do some self-evaluation. Your reaction to this is completely over the top, and just... wrong. If your sexual needs are met, what gives you the right to dictate to your husband how he handles his body? Why do you feel justified in doing so? Instead of marriage counseling, I would recommend seeing a counselor to combat your low self esteem and control issues. These will be a much greater threat to your marriage than your husband masturbating to porn every so often...



No her reaction is not over the top, its how many women would react with a husband who mentally cheats on her. Its not controlling to expect our spouse to be faithful mentally as well and physically. 

Its BECAUSE I have good self esteem that I would never put up with being treated in that terrible way.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> I actually understand his point.
> 
> Masturbation involves fantasy, not always about your spouse. It’s not wrong to think about the morality of that, but it’s hard to stop. As a Baptist pastor said to me many years ago “97% of men masturbate and 3% of men lie”.
> 
> ...


There are still men around who don't use porn, and that Baptist pastor is totally wrong. Many men know its wrong and stay away from it because they value their wives and marriages and know that sex is for them alone.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Edo Edo said:
> 
> 
> > It most certainly is you. If you are seriously considering marriage counseling over your husband keeping his masturbating a secret from you, you should honestly take a step back and do some self-evaluation. Your reaction to this is completely over the top, and just... wrong. If your sexual needs are met, what gives you the right to dictate to your husband how he handles his body? Why do you feel justified in doing so? Instead of marriage counseling, I would recommend seeing a counselor to combat your low self esteem and control issues. These will be a much greater threat to your marriage than your husband masturbating to porn every so often...
> ...


Well said Diana7.

Its the porn users with the control issues. Instead of wooing and romancing their wives they click. Sure the fantasy is just what they want and they achieve it without all the emotions and "hassle" of dealing with a real woman.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

CatholicDad said:


> Well said Diana7.
> 
> Its the porn users with the control issues. Instead of wooing and romancing their wives they click. Sure the fantasy is just what they want and they achieve it without all the emotions and "hassle" of dealing with a real woman.


where is the wank emoji? 

maybe im just biased because of my job, but most guys i know who use porn have no issues with their sex lives when they are home. no problem wooing and romancing their wives. but, they only see their wives for at most half of every year, so...

you say that porn users have control issues... 

yea, thats probably one of the dumbest things i have seen in a while. and that is saying something.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

As'laDain said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > Well said Diana7.
> ...


Porn can be detrimental but if you really want to disect it ... Porn is a symptom of the real problem with these people. As you said, many people can consume it and have no issues in their relationship whatsoever. It comes down to will and self-discipline. If you are weak minded and/or obsessive ... Yeah, porn is going to be an issue but so are 1000 other things.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> Well said Diana7.
> 
> Its the porn users with the control issues. Instead of wooing and romancing their wives they click. Sure the fantasy is just what they want and they achieve it without all the emotions and "hassle" of dealing with a real woman.


Except what you claim is not true. I'm sure you wish it were true though.

As someone who sometimes views pornography I don't lack control, in fact my personality leans towards being rather disciplined. I joined the Regular Army (full-time) at 17 and spent 14 years through 16 serving, albeit with most of those years in Army Reserve service which included doing full-time duty as well. For 18 months in-between, I managed to recover from having every bone in my legs being fractured, yet with a lot of work, discipline and control I managed to get back in. I also managed to exhibit enough control over the following years to serve in Light and Mechanised Infantry in Rifle Platoons and DFSW, as a Section (Squad) 2IC by 21, then a Section Commander (Squad Leader) by 22. I was also an infantry instructor for a time as well which was followed by becoming an infantry Platoon Sergeant at 26.

This was followed by having sufficient control, intelligence and good character to pass all the vetting required to serve in Intelligence Corps in the Army when nearing 29, with the appropriate security clearances. Which saw me contribute to HUMINT and PSYOPS work as an Operator and later Detachment Commander, for the War on Terrorism, the Invasion of Iraq, Border Protection activities and two regional Peace Keeping Operations.

I have also run a successful creative business since 2008, I don't drink alcohol very often and can't recall drinking any alcohol to date this year. I don't gamble, although I've used a poker machine once and found gambling to be very boring which is why I don't of it. I have never been arrested for anything and have never had to pay a fine for speeding or parking violations either. Amongst others I have rendered first aid to one of my soldiers who wasn't breathing and had no pulse out bush (he survived). I have while a victim of one incident rendered first aid to multiple seriously and critically injured casualties, while controlling the scene and directing reluctant non-involved strangers to help until professional aid arrived.

On the occasions when I have faced my potential extinction like the following examples amongst others. Like when 7.62mm machine gun bullets were landing around me and my men. Or a car was hurtling towards me, my now wife and others at circa 90km/h, (both accidents). I have always been calm and controlled, have never panicked and did what was required to try to survive, protect others and render aid even when there was lots of slippery blood.

The machine gun incident was certainly not a slow motion event, yet I did feel uncomfortable, when I had to walk through the beaten zone as bursts where coming in, to get to my radio to make it stop. Yet as the Section Commander, it was my responsibility to my troops to do what I did. On the other hand with my wife that was a slow motion experience. When the car careered towards us and mowed down everyone around me, as it missed me by the width of one of my fingers.

As I said I view pornography from time to time and I do so by choice, it isn't a lack of control it is a conscious choice to do exactly that. In the same way I choose to read books, watch television, visit art galleries, go to the theatre, watch movies etc, I view pornography because I enjoy it.

Like all of those things, I can and have lived without it.

In the past when doing high tempo work, that saw me have little sleep, while having immense mental and physical demands placed upon me with considerable responsibility for the lives of others. I seldom read books, or viewed pornography, nor masturbated either. On the other hand when not doing such high tempo work, I would happily read a book or view some pornography and or masturbate as well, because hurry up and wait is a real thing.

When my wife asked me out on a date 22 years ago, and we started having sex very quickly after that. She saw the few pornographic magazines and VHS videos that I had. Of which her first response was "I don't know if I like that", I told her that I did, you might "and you may as well get used to it", Which she did.

In 4 years between my ex-wife and my now wife, I was with plenty of women most of whom asked me out and or offered me sex. Yet pornography wasn't an issue with any of them, the closest being my now wife who lived a rather chaste life until just before she started dating me. Then with her it turned out she was fine with it as well, after going there.

I've managed to woo and romance my wife and other women before her very easily, to the point I have never experienced a limited sex or sexless nominally sexual relationship. Which includes plenty of enthusiastic sex through pregnancies and after with four different pregnant women two of whom I have been married to. I've never lacked for female suitors either, and even of having some men being interested in me sexually as well. In fact sex has always come very easily and very frequently.

In my experience women are wanton and very lustful sexual animals who frequently desire and crave sex.

Of course when I was away for months at time with the Army. My wife and I weren't sharing sex during those moments, yet we would always make up for it upon my return.

As to women being a "hassle", I've never considered them that at all. In fact I think women are terrific and I enjoy their company whether it is platonically or sexually. I don't know about you, but I find being with them comes easily and is a very comfortable fit.

As a pornography consumer today, I still enjoy a terrific high frequency, high quality sexual relationship with my wife. On Saturday at my initiation we shared sex together on two occasions. While on Sunday in the evening at her initiation we shared sex again, after she had a day out with her mother and one of her siblings. We also groped a bit on Saturday and kissed each other as well. On Sunday since she was out their wasn't that much sexual banter before hand, yet she did flash me her tits a few times. This morning before she left for work she bent over while naked to pick something up, I told her she had a nice arse, and she smiled at me and said "thank-you" before going to have a shower.

Even after 22 years together when we have sex, we kiss each other frequently on the lips with a lot of tongue action, which is so hot and does a lot for our intimacy together. Although our sex life is far from vanilla, we still enjoy the simple things sexually. With the core of what we do centred around kissing intimately and lustfully, with all else following from that.

Oh and I get what I want sexually, whether it be with a woman where I enjoy the emotions, the feelings and carnal desire and physical sensation or whether it is masturbating alone. Both bring pleasure, so I choose to enjoy both pleasures rather than limit myself when I don't need to.

It simply isn't a choice between wooing my wife and having sex with her and "clicking" as you say, since I have it all. Which is hardly a surprise for a highly sexual person, who is comfortable being exactly that.

Maybe if your wife wanted to have sex with you more often than hardly ever at all, and you masturbated at least sometimes you might understand that.

As Jarvis Cocker says in that 1995 sexy song Your Sister's Clothes by Pulp. "Try it; you might like it. But you might, smudge your lipstick."

If people don't think pornography is a problem in their relationships and don't have an issue with it, it tends not to be a problem and not an issue for them either.

As to the ethical side of it, some pornography isn't ethically produced, while some of it is ethically produced which can be said for just about anything.

A few years ago now, my wife and I had no qualms freely posting some of our own home made very explicit and ethically produced pornography for others to masturbate to, of which we hope they (whoever they are) enjoy it.

At the end of the day I don't care if my wife masturbates alone or has fantasies about others, or views pornography when she does so, since what happens inside her own head is her own business. My wife also feels the same, as a consequence of that we enjoy a healthy sex life and don't have the OP's problems.

If the OP wasn't interested in controlling her husbands sexuality, and what he thinks and how he behaves, she might have a better, more positive and honest relationship with him.

Likewise if her husband were less concerned about upsetting her for foolish reasons and wasn't conflict avoidant with her, he might also have a better, more positive and honest relationship with her.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

How many here are alcohol drinkers? EVER? if you are not an alcoholic I think this is fine! 

As to porn users? Is this hurting your life? as in taking away from your sex life? (Do not confuse a wifes OVER REACTION and CONTROLLING manner confuse you that this is negatively hurting his life. His wife is allowing it to dictate HER feelings. That is not his fault AND a different problem all together.) 

When used responsibly, and viewing porn of consenting adults it is a minor sin BY SOCIETIES standard. 

Biblically this is an entirely different argument and topic. Since I subscribe to no religion this is not a large concern for me. 

Porn is porn... Like some drugs, alcohol, weed, it can be a slippery slope. Should be respected by the fact that it can be risky... But is it a punishable offense in your husbands case? 

I dont think so.


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> No her reaction is not over the top, its how many women would react with a husband who mentally cheats on her. Its not controlling to expect our spouse to be faithful mentally as well and physically.
> 
> Its BECAUSE I have good self esteem that I would never put up with being treated in that terrible way.



Diana7, you and I will never see eye to eye on the topic of pornography because you look through it with a moral layer that I do not believe exists. You look at it as a form of cheating. I look at it as a form of entertainment. 

But there is a whole extra layer to this that does point to low self esteem. It's the amount of control that someone feels that has to be exerted on to someone else's person. She is his spouse and has every right to voice a concern or opinion on this, but at the end of the day, it is his choice to determine how he wants to masturbate. Her sexual needs are being met. There's no communication being made to the female porn actresses. There's no money being spent to support their trade. No danger of STDs. No danger of unwanted pregnancies. No danger of falling in love with the other woman. No danger of even knowing if they like the same foods or hobbies. No kind of physical or emotional affair is going on here. He's just viewing images and firing his shot. The only drama in this scenario is being artificially created by his wife. And if she feels that she needs to exert so much control over him that she dictates to him how to masturbate (arguably, the MOST personal of all acts), then yes, this certainly comes across as VERY low self esteem. I feel sorry for her husband. Big time...


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

CatholicDad said:


> Well said Diana7.
> 
> Its the porn users with the control issues. Instead of wooing and romancing their wives they click. Sure the fantasy is just what they want and they achieve it without all the emotions and "hassle" of dealing with a real woman.



Incorrect. The people with control issues include those who feel they have the right to dictate to others what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. The people with control issues include those who feel they have the right to censor the media consumption of other grown adults. If anything, by your description, porn users might be lazy. That's all... 

But "lazy" doesn't even apply in this case either. The OP isn't complaining about the lack of a quality sex life, so the husband is obviously getting the job done there. She just doesn't like how he chooses to masturbate and thinks she has the right to dictate to him how he does so. Why "hassle" him about it at all? She is welcome to her opinion as his spouse, but should in no way expect to have the final word in how he jerks off. And she shouldn't go pouting onto the internet when she doesn't get her way. And then back pedal the story at even the slightest pushback. Those are the qualities that come across as control issues and those of low self esteem. 


I'm not married to any particular philosophy. I just call each individual case as I see them based on the facts on hand. And that's how I see this one...


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

It is true that I do not approve of viewing porn. I can very simply dislike porn and not be a controlling, pouting, person who suffers from low self-esteem. That is simply not true and my husband would be the first person to say that. 

As I've stated before, when my husband and I first met he was well aware of my morals and values. I never told my husband he could not watch porn and it was 100% his choice to marry me knowing my standpoint on it. He knew and knows that will never change. During our long, quiet talk in the park I asked him MANY questions and we discussed many things. He had the opportunity to tell me if he wanted to continue to view porn and he told me he did not feel what he did was right and he had a moment of weakness, never twisted his arm. My husband is a strong-willed adult and doesn't fear me or my reactions. He is only human and I forgave him. 

Really, my whole purpose for posting was to hopefully receive some advice on how to deal with emotional trauma. The issue I am dealing with is anxiety from being lied to so many times. I think the days of lying are over but there is still part of me that is concerned he may lie about something again. He could lie about something big and I could have my trust destroyed. Having my trust broken so much is something I unfortunately cannot get past.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

neonmoon1005 said:


> *It is true that I do not approve of viewing porn.* I can very simply dislike porn and not be a controlling, pouting, person who suffers from low self-esteem. That is simply not true and my husband would be the first person to say that.
> 
> *As I've stated before, when my husband and I first met he was well aware of my morals and values. I never told my husband he could not watch porn and it was 100% his choice to marry me knowing my standpoint on it.*


Which is the path to dishonesty.

If you were looking for honesty, you could have said you don't personally like viewing pornography. While also saying you don't make judgements of those who do, and are not inclined to make someone feel shame for doing so.

Plus considering the fact that you didn't tell your husband he couldn't watch porn, you would do well to honour that statement and accept him doing so. Since to do anything less makes you a liar. Plus considering your stance on and apoplexy over his lying, it also makes you a hypocrite as well.



neonmoon1005 said:


> He knew and knows that will never change.


Well if he knows that and considering your extraordinary reaction, to catching him masturbating with some pornography in his alone time. He would do well to hide it better and lie to you even more, as he feels shame over your response to him being in touch with his own sexuality.



neonmoon1005 said:


> During our long, quiet talk in the park I asked him MANY questions and we discussed many things. He had the opportunity to tell me if he wanted to continue to view porn and he told me he did not feel what he did was right and he had a moment of weakness, never twisted his arm.


So masturbating is being weak? I'm sorry that in this day and age your husband feels compelled to express that to you about his sexuality.

In some circles women are still egregiously shamed for having a sex drive, while in others men are shamed for masturbating.

Shame on you, for the harm you do.



neonmoon1005 said:


> My husband is a strong-willed adult and doesn't fear me or my reactions. He is only human and I forgave him.


If he were as strong as you claim, he would have told you to, grow up, get over yourself and remind you that you do not own his body or mind, and have no right to control him. One part of getting over anxiety and wrong thinking, is to not humour it in the first place, and to not let rigid thinking rule your world.

Yet he hasn't done that at all. Where is his safe space? Where is his autonomy? Where is his freedom of thought? Where is his freedom, from your toxic disapproval? 



neonmoon1005 said:


> Really, my whole purpose for posting was to hopefully receive some advice on how to deal with emotional trauma. The issue I am dealing with is anxiety from being lied to so many times.


Well if lying is the cause of your anxiety, perhaps you might hide yourself in a room devoid of any stimuli or contact with the outside world.

Since politicians will lie to you, as will some friends, some in the media, some family, plenty of clergy, those who you buy products from and sometimes even yourself.

Or you could try to get over yourself and abandon a rigid mindset that does you no favours. While trying to live in the world as it actually is, not how you indignantly demand it to be.

If you stop thinking it's a problem, it is likely to cease being a problem.



neonmoon1005 said:


> I think the days of lying are over but there is still part of me that is concerned he may lie about something again.


I don't agree with you, I think you are naive to think those days are over.

As to being concerned. You lie and he lies, just as others lie.

So what benefit do you gain by establishing a status quo where it benefits him to lie to you? Rather than not please you, disappoint you, engender your disapproval and worse feel shamed by your over the top reaction, to normal sexual behaviour.



neonmoon1005 said:


> He could lie about something big and I could have my trust destroyed. Having my trust broken so much is something I unfortunately cannot get past.


Well when you start being perfect, perhaps you might be onto something. Till then it's up to you to decide, if you want to end your marriage for your petty prejudices or not.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I think that trust being destroyed is PERHAPS something to do with your idealization of his perfection in regards to sexuality. What you learned was he is actually quite average in that regards when you thought you had an ideal perfect man who does not use porn.

Good for him that he sees issue with it and does not want it in his life. I don't think it is unhealthy to abstain from, nor do i think occasional use is unhealthy either. 

As to working through your issue, and trust maybe you need to look at how you felt about him before. And reconcile that with what you know now. Do you love him any less for making this choice even if he didn't regret it? 

I hope this issue is solved with him.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Edo Edo said:


> Diana7, you and I will never see eye to eye on the topic of pornography because you look through it with a moral layer that I do not believe exists. You look at it as a form of cheating. I look at it as a form of entertainment.
> 
> But there is a whole extra layer to this that does point to low self esteem. It's the amount of control that someone feels that has to be exerted on to someone else's person. She is his spouse and has every right to voice a concern or opinion on this, but at the end of the day, it is his choice to determine how he wants to masturbate. Her sexual needs are being met. There's no communication being made to the female porn actresses. There's no money being spent to support their trade. No danger of STDs. No danger of unwanted pregnancies. No danger of falling in love with the other woman. No danger of even knowing if they like the same foods or hobbies. No kind of physical or emotional affair is going on here. He's just viewing images and firing his shot. The only drama in this scenario is being artificially created by his wife. And if she feels that she needs to exert so much control over him that she dictates to him how to masturbate (arguably, the MOST personal of all acts), then yes, this certainly comes across as VERY low self esteem. I feel sorry for her husband. Big time...


I fee sorry for his wife BIG time, what a selfish self centered immature man he is. He doesnt deserve a wife who loves and desires him. 
BTW I used to hate porn before I was a Christian, ever since I found my dads porn mags. I was in my teens then and my respect for him went down. I always knew even then that it was a bad thing. 

You compare porn use to cheating, saying that its not as bad, well both are wrong and damaging.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

neonmoon1005 said:


> It is true that I do not approve of viewing porn. I can very simply dislike porn and not be a controlling, pouting, person who suffers from low self-esteem. That is simply not true and my husband would be the first person to say that.
> 
> As I've stated before, when my husband and I first met he was well aware of my morals and values. I never told my husband he could not watch porn and it was 100% his choice to marry me knowing my standpoint on it. He knew and knows that will never change. During our long, quiet talk in the park I asked him MANY questions and we discussed many things. He had the opportunity to tell me if he wanted to continue to view porn and he told me he did not feel what he did was right and he had a moment of weakness, never twisted his arm. My husband is a strong-willed adult and doesn't fear me or my reactions. He is only human and I forgave him.
> 
> Really, my whole purpose for posting was to hopefully receive some advice on how to deal with emotional trauma. The issue I am dealing with is anxiety from being lied to so many times. I think the days of lying are over but there is still part of me that is concerned he may lie about something again. He could lie about something big and I could have my trust destroyed. Having my trust broken so much is something I unfortunately cannot get past.


Unfortunately if a man thinks that porn use is ok he will rarely change his views. That's why I wouldn't marry a man who did it. 

Trust will take a very long time to rebuild. Maybe some good MC will help.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I know some, my husband being one.


Has he in the past?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Has he in the past?


 No. He is 61 so when he was young it was magazines or nothing. He never bought one. Its a conscious decision for him not to look, he knows that it can be a real problem, especially for men, so doesnt want to ever go there. 
He also knows that its a form of cheating. For us its mental adultery which can be almost as bad as physical cheating. Our faith says its just as bad.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> When you marry and vow to "forsake all others"... Yeah, its wrong. It doesn't matter what hubby thinks he is missing. He made a vow. Him having fantasy sex with porno ladies, yeah wrong. Instead, he should be thankful to have a wife who loves and desires him!
> 
> I think it ultimately a means of control. Instead of working on the marriage (maybe deal with some things), he's stepping outside it.


You assume there is a solution. Plenty of marriages with mismatched libidos out there. It’s hard to be celibate. How long could you go without an orgasm. 

Suppose your wife is not willing to meet your need. What would you do?


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> No. He is 61 so when he was young it was magazines or nothing. He never bought one. Its a conscious decision for him not to look, he knows that it can be a real problem, especially for men, so doesnt want to ever go there.
> He also knows that its a form of cheating. For us its mental adultery which can be almost as bad as physical cheating. Our faith says its just as bad.


Never looked at porn, maybe. Hard to prove either way. 

Has he ever masturbated? If so, what did he think about?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Never looked at porn, maybe. Hard to prove either way.
> 
> Has he ever masturbated? If so, what did he think about?


He doesn't need to as we have sex when either of us wants it. Even when he wasn't married he used to sparingly, but as he says, you can do that without using porn. 

No he hasnt used porn. We are very open and honest about these things.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> He doesn't need to as we have sex when either of us wants it. Even when he wasn't married he used to sparingly, but as he says, you can do that without using porn.
> 
> No he hasnt used porn. We are very open and honest about these things.


I’m betting he has fantasized, and I’m curious whether you find that acceptable.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Wazza said:


> You assume there is a solution. Plenty of marriages with mismatched libidos out there. It’s hard to be celibate. How long could you go without an orgasm.
> 
> Suppose your wife is not willing to meet your need. What would you do?


She isn't, he first turned up here on these forums complaining about the fact his wife for the most part seldom has sex with him. As to what he does about it, he seems to rail against pornography here.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Personal said:


> She isn't, he first turned up here on these forums complaining about the fact his wife for the most part seldom has sex with him. As to what he does about it, he seems to rail against pornography here.


Interesting, went back and found his first post.



CatholicDad said:


> My wife and I average some brief time alone once per week. New baby, teens and an overly busy life. I'm almost in a rage since it seems impossible to improve. I'm almost too frustrated to pursue anymore and feel like a schmuck when I do. My wife is a bit of a clean freak and showers afterwards since she is nursing- even quickies cost her an hour. I do help with chores and everything I can around the house. Adding fuel to the fire is that my wife often hints in arguments "the nice things she does for me" (meaning sex), but regardless- I feel starved.
> 
> Unlike 99% of men, I don't masturbate (religious reasons). She is my only remedy.
> 
> ...


I think it is more loving to sometimes meet my needs myself rather than put demands on my wife. The fact that she’s frustrated too may say something.

But it does explain his silence when I asked about frequency earlier. Try being away on business for a month.....


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> I’m betting he has fantasized, and I’m curious whether you find that acceptable.


We think about each other when we have sex. We cant help what we see in our day to day lives, but we can control what stays in our mind and what doesn't. He wont even watch films or tv programmes that have any sort of sex or partial nudity. Nor adverts, that his choice not mine. He was like this way before we met. There are other men like him as well, we know many.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Wazza said:


> Try being away on business for a month.....


In the first 3 years of my sexual relationship with my wife, I was away a 2-3 months a year with the Army. Then through the following 5 years I was often away 3-7 months each year for the same reason.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Wazza said:


> The fact that she’s frustrated too may say something.


I hope they find some sort of happy middle somewhere that works for both of them. Unfortunately his being zealous about not having any other outlet, adds significantly more pressure to the both of them and is a pathway to greater resentment.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> We think about each other when we have sex. We cant help what we see in our day to day lives, but we can control what stays in our mind and what doesn't. He wont even watch films or tv programmes that have any sort of sex or partial nudity. Nor adverts, that his choice not mine. He was like this way before we met. There are other men like him as well, we know many.


I actually get that perspective. I just see it differently, but I respect your position. 

M willing to bet that at times he has thought about someone else, though I can believe he felt guilty about it.


----------



## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

Imagine if this couple masturbted together and enjoyed the intimacy and oxytocin together instead of their sexual repression and shame. I can understand why people have worshipped Aphrodite but some of these other gods seem to hold very archaic views on sexuality and marriage where they seem to lack experience in either. The "bible belt" views more porn than anyone in the USA according to PornHub. Why is that?


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

PigglyWiggly said:


> Imagine if this couple masturbted together and enjoyed the intimacy and oxycontin together instead of their sexual repression and shame.


I think you mean oxytocin not oxycontin. Big difference lol.


----------



## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> I think you mean oxytocin not oxycontin. Big difference lol.


you are correct and thank you so much for correcting that. :toast:


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I fee sorry for his wife BIG time, what a selfish self centered immature man he is. He doesnt deserve a wife who loves and desires him.
> BTW I used to hate porn before I was a Christian, ever since I found my dads porn mags. I was in my teens then and my respect for him went down. I always knew even then that it was a bad thing.
> 
> You compare porn use to cheating, saying that its not as bad, well both are wrong and damaging.



How is he being selfish and self centered? 
How is porn use wrong and damaging?

You've made those statements before, but fail to explain why you feel that way or offer any facts to back them up. You just keep on saying the same thing and expect people to just agree with you. Well, a lot of us don't agree. In that way, you are acting very similar to the OP. You have every right to hate porn. The OP has every right to hate porn. No one cares if you hate porn. But your rights end when you try to force any other adult (including your husbands) to live their lives or handle their bodies according to your views. You are lucky that you found a man who does not desire to view this form of entertainment. The OP was not as lucky, but she is either going to have to get over it OR continue to drag her, her husband, and anyone around them through her own personal hell until she finds a way to do so...


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If he agreed to never watch porn before you were married, then I agree that he is violating that agreement. 

So what now? Is it important enough to you to leave him? You have every right to do so if you want - he did promise. Just keep in mind that you can't "force" him to stop - the only valid threat in marriage is to leave - what else is there? You can shout at him, and act in other unloving ways, but that sort of behavior cuts both ways. 

I think the "lying" is sort of a red herring - I think if the the topic had been different, you would not have been so concerned about a "lie". What matters is that he lied about something you think is important. 




neonmoon1005 said:


> It is true that I do not approve of viewing porn. I can very simply dislike porn and not be a controlling, pouting, person who suffers from low self-esteem. That is simply not true and my husband would be the first person to say that.
> 
> As I've stated before, when my husband and I first met he was well aware of my morals and values. I never told my husband he could not watch porn and it was 100% his choice to marry me knowing my standpoint on it. He knew and knows that will never change. During our long, quiet talk in the park I asked him MANY questions and we discussed many things. He had the opportunity to tell me if he wanted to continue to view porn and he told me he did not feel what he did was right and he had a moment of weakness, never twisted his arm. My husband is a strong-willed adult and doesn't fear me or my reactions. He is only human and I forgave him.
> 
> Really, my whole purpose for posting was to hopefully receive some advice on how to deal with emotional trauma. The issue I am dealing with is anxiety from being lied to so many times. I think the days of lying are over but there is still part of me that is concerned he may lie about something again. He could lie about something big and I could have my trust destroyed. Having my trust broken so much is something I unfortunately cannot get past.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Personal said:


> She isn't, he first turned up here on these forums complaining about the fact his wife for the most part seldom has sex with him. As to what he does about it, he seems to rail against pornography here.


Wow, he sounds like a great resource on improving sex in marriage. :wink2:


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I think too many people take their lessons of sexuality from the bible and or CHRISTIAN ideology, and place shame and censure on something natural and NORMAL. porn is not NORMAL or natural because it was created from technology, BUT the drive to VIEW porn/NAKED persons is natural! If it is not there then these (TYPES) of wives would have issue and problem with private masturbation without porn. I think this does not come down to porn at all but control and shame... 

I know this probably offends the OP, and I hope she can realize I have been in her shoes, and handled myself poorly for a few months. BUT my husband actually CHEATED not just viewed porn. So I had REAL trauma influence my over controlling actions.I got over them to a degree. 

Like you I dont like porn. I wish my husband didnt use it... BUT as long as it does not effect my sex life with him I am fine. 

Christianity and western religion have done great harm on humanities HEALTHY sexuality. Controlling another's sexuality in this manner is unhealthy. (Period)


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Personal, you don't have to agree. I've stated how I felt and your response doesn't change that or make me feel bad or wrong about my stance. Again, I was looking for advice on how to deal with the trauma of being lied to many times. That's all. You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions about myself and my husband. It sounds like you just want to express how strongly you feel about how wrong I am instead of trying to politely trying to help.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

My husband and I have decided what we are going to do about the situation.

Counseling has not helped me much with my anxiety issues so I thought I would get some advice from people who may have gone through situations that damaged their trust with their spouse. But not to my surprise, people just wanted to debate whether I am wrong or right for disliking pornography.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I agree Uhtred, and I know I can't force anything on him just as he can't for anything on me. Forcing and guilting people is wrong and doesn't usually work unless the person is weak which neither of us are.


----------



## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

neonmoon1005 said:


> My husband and I have decided what we are going to do about the situation.
> 
> Counseling has not helped me much with my anxiety issues so I thought I would get some advice from people who may have gone through situations that damaged their trust with their spouse. But not to my surprise, people just wanted to *debate whether I am wrong or right for disliking pornography*.



Incorrect Many people here totally UNDERSTAND your dislike. What we and many others are doing is calling out your behavior in regards to your husband and why you feel betrayed. As you claim we misunderstand your purpose, you misunderstand OURS. but that is understandable too. You are defensive and totally get why... You feel attacked and I wont deny the tone of many is attacking. But... There has been some good points made against your view that could help you if you entertained them. 

I wish you and your husband well. You have only been married a handful of years and I think this issue is not buried and over with. Be emotionally prepared for this to happen again, not because it will, but because it could.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

@neonmoon1005, I feel like the main part of your question has got thrown by the side, how do you trust him again. Maybe because we have no idea what else he has lied about. I know you said some were stupid and some were serious, can you give an example of one thing stupid and one thing serious. I tried to find the answer in the thread but I couldn't sorry if I missed it.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think pornography is pretty central to this. There are many types of lies. 

Years ago my wife expressed surprise (not concern) when I made some comment to indicate that I masturbated. I said that I assumed she did. She said "no" - which was a lie - I've noticed that the sex toys move around sometimes. She had not *reason* to lie, I didn't care one way or the other, she was just to embarrassed to admit it. 

I'm not unhappy that she *lied* because I didn't care about the thing she lied about, view it as somethine private for her, and not really my business. 

I would care if she lied about something important. 

The topic of the lie matters, and whether or not porn is an important topic, is important to the discussion. 



neonmoon1005 said:


> My husband and I have decided what we are going to do about the situation.
> 
> Counseling has not helped me much with my anxiety issues so I thought I would get some advice from people who may have gone through situations that damaged their trust with their spouse. But not to my surprise, people just wanted to debate whether I am wrong or right for disliking pornography.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> My husband and I have decided what we are going to do about the situation.
> 
> Counseling has not helped me much with my anxiety issues so I thought I would get some advice from people who may have gone through situations that damaged their trust with their spouse. But not to my surprise, people just wanted to debate whether I am wrong or right for disliking pornography.


I just get the sense that is a mixture of the porn,the masturbation and the lies that upset you. I respect your stance on porn, agree with you about lying, and think that agreeing not to masturbate is as futile as agreeing not to breathe. 

Are you requiring your husband to make promises he can’t keep under threat of divorce?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> My husband and I have decided what we are going to do about the situation.
> 
> Counseling has not helped me much with my anxiety issues so I thought I would get some advice from people who may have gone through situations that damaged their trust with their spouse. But not to my surprise, people just wanted to debate whether I am wrong or right for disliking pornography.


Then perhaps that is the thread you should have started. The answers you get will only be as good as the question.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I am not defensive because I do not have a reason to defend myself. I was simply looking for advice on how to deal with broken trust and the severe emotional upset that resulted from it. The porn, masturbation, my views, etc. are irrelevant. This is really just an issue I am having with letting go and trusting again and I wanted to talk to other people who can relate to having bad anxiety to share their advice. 
None of that matters now though and now that I think I see I really don't need advice anyway. I just needed to decided to let go and trust again or divorce.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

And no Wazza, there is not a "threat" of divorce. That would be a ridiculous and unfair thing to do. Divorced should be a mutual decision that two adults make together.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I am not defensive because I do not have a reason to defend myself. I was simply looking for advice on how to deal with broken trust and the severe emotional upset that resulted from it. The porn, masturbation, my views, etc. are irrelevant. This is really just an issue I am having with letting go and trusting again and I wanted to talk to other people who can relate to having bad anxiety to share their advice.
> *None of that matters now though* and now that I think I see I really don't need advice anyway. I just needed to decided to let go and trust again or divorce.


You don't have to answer that but am curious on what happened in terms of why it doesn't matter. I think this thread took on a life of it's own and got misconstrued into a Porn thread when you said for the get go it was a trust issue. Hope you are doing ok, we are here to help if we can.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Yes Uhtred, it clearly is important to me but irrelevant since this is about my trust and anxiety issues not the porn since that was dealt with long ago. What is also irrelevant is whether I approve of porn or not because this is not a debate on whether porn is right or wrong.Everyone had different and strong opinions on that anyway.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Stillfightingforus, yes that is exactly it. Thank you for seeing that.


----------



## His_Response (Jun 14, 2018)

neonmoon1005 said:


> And no Wazza, there is not a "threat" of divorce. That would be a ridiculous and unfair thing to do. Divorced should be a mutual decision that two adults make together.


I agree, Neonmoon. Unfortunately some people in these forums tend to skim over the entries and post a knee-jerk, opinion-based response. I even did that a bit in my initial response to you. (Sorry about that...  ) The internet is unfortunately full of people that believe their opinion is fact. :bsflag: One would think that with age would come wisdom, but that's sadly not the case... at least, not always.


-H.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

I want to say something about "trust"...borrowing something from Dr. Phil....

My wife and I have a beautiful 7-year-old black Labrador retriever. She is as faithful as the day is long to both of us. She is vigilant through night and day keeping "watch" over our house. I have no doubt that she would protect either one of us with her own life, and at complete abandonment of her own safety.

Neither of us leave a sandwich lying on the table or kitchen counter, though. Because we both know what will happen to our sandwich 

Like Dr Phil said, "...I'd trust that dog with my life.....but not with my sandwich..."...

None of us, no matter how long we're married, no matter how strong the courtship, no matter the years of complete fidelity, can "trust" our spouses beyond what is their "nature".....we have to place our trust in every other person very carefully.

Your husband, his desires for sex and approval from females of the species, is his nature, every bit as much as gobbling down any available sandwich is to our dog.

We cannot ask our dog to leave our sandwich untouched. The temptation is too strong, the dog will "fall"....

the REAL question is not whether we "trust" the dog..... but rather whether we "trust" ourselves, that if the dog snarfs our lunch....guess what.... we are going to go to the store, buy some more bologna and cheese.....and go on with our lives.....

we are not going to let this area of "untrust" spoil all the other areas of "trust" and fidelity where we know we can count on the dog.

I think I've said enough. Best wishes to you and your husband.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

His_response, exactly and no worries.


----------



## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

@neonmoon1005


I've read the entire thread, and I'm not sure what the issue is--the porn or the lying about it.

You've stated that your personal values disagree with pornography. Then you say it's not about porn, it's about trust. So I'm a bit confused.:scratchhead:

That said, after reading your thread; I would like to offer a little comfort and perhaps, solidarity.

I too disagree with pornography. In fact it sickens me to my core. I guess I always believed that it was something that single guys looked at; or men whose wives didn't want to have sex with them. Other than that, it was for "dirty old men".


Long [long!!!] story short; I found that I am easily replaceable with pornography. Sex is meaningless to men. They claim that it is how they show love. Which is so easily disproved by how readily they will replace their partner with pornography.. Many _prefer_ sex "with" porn over a flesh and blood woman. See how the TAM porn posse has descended on your thread.

Your feelings have been minimized. You are accused of having a hang up. You are accused of not being sexual enough. You are accused of not "fulfilling all his needs'. You better suck it up buttercup. No wonder he uses porn when he's married to such a "prude" as yourself. On and on, ad infinitum.

The party line is this: Porn is good. Pure, devoted sexuality is bad, passe, outdated, pathetic, boring, a joke.......

And I hate to say it, but "they" are right. Porn is never going away. So, those of us whose sexual orientation includes a repulsion to pornography, and all it stands for----are a sexual minority.

I truly hope that your husband can make you his one and only. His woman. And you can return that focus. And have that pure passion in your marriage.

It's not impossible. But it's highly unlikely that that will happen.

So, you must change what you can control. You cannot control other people. You can only control you.

So in order to protect yourself emotionally, you must reorient yourself to your husband. He must not be everything to you; especially sexually. Use him sexually to scratch your itch. Do not confuse the sex act with love. If he sneaks off to watch porn and have orgasm and ejaculation without you; then you know that sex is not love to him. Do not let sex be "love" to you.

It's better to think, "I have a marriage where we care for and support each other [also known as love]." "I am not, nor will I ever be enough to sexually fulfill my husband; therefore I will not open myself up enough for him to hurt me anymore." "I have the use of his body for sex and vice versa."

Also, you see a lot of "advice" on these type of threads to find out what he's looking at in porn. You are supposed to try and recreate those sex acts, since your own personal sexual tastes are apparently lacking.

I don't know about you, but I will not have anal sex [let alone 'double penetrated' anal sex or double penetrated anal vaginal sex]. I don't care how much porn my husband has seen of these acts.

Like wise, I won't "submit" to a penis being thrust at full speed down my throat until I am gagging, coughing, tearing up and choking.

I won't do three ways. I won't have sex with animals. I won't "****" my husband. Sure am'n't going to have anal sex, then have him shove his penis, covered with my fecal bacteria, into my mouth.

What I'm saying is, is that there is a plethora of acts in pornography that are disgusting. You aren't allowed to say "disgusting" anymore. It's almost a word that has lost any kind of meaning. But you are not required to reenact anything that makes you feel repulsed, sickened or frightened. If he wants to spend time watching who knows what and orgasming to it; that's his business. You don't have to take part in it. That's the only dignity you have available to you.

If it's so bad {he watches underage porn, or simulated child porn, or granny porn or whatever}, that you feel that you cannot stay with him; then by all means divorce him. But don't expect that other men will be much different.

Hope it works out for you; and you can find a place of personal calm and autonomy.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

TJW, thank you.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't think I could regain "trust" so it is something that I apply very sparingly. I apply trust to my wife or very close friends on those few things that are very important to me. 

I trust my wife not to intentionally harm me or anyone I loved (or our pets). Here I mean direct physical or major financial harm, not "harm" from not liking something she did. 

I don't "trust" her not to cheat. I hope she doesn't, and would be unhappy if she did, but it is not a matter of deep trust, because it is something I would easily forgive. The same goes for drug use, financial stupidity, etc. 

If my wife tried to physically hurt me, or stole from me, etc, then there could never be trust again and the marriage would end. 


A very close friend of mine once tried to emotionally hurt my girlfriend. That pretty much ended our close friendship forever.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Thank you notmyrealname4


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

neonmoon1005, you're doing just fine. Your husband knew who you were, and he broke your trust. You did not "cause" him to look at porn, or push him to be secret about it. His own conscience made him do it secretly, because he knew he was going against his own character and the image he portrayed to you when he made his initial commitment to you.

A person doesn't need to make a list of every single thing they approve of and don't approve of when dating, because many of those things are usually covered generally and along with other things.

I didn't have to tell my husband that I didn't want porn or even homosexuality to be part of our marriage. He was a Christian and a virgin (at 29.) He had a worldview and religion that covered those issues. 

He didn't have to tell me that he didn't approve of drug abuse, prostitution, or theft. He knew that my world view and the way I conducted my life covered those things.

Don't feel pressured by judgmental people who think that anyone who doesn't love porn, anal sex or group sex must have something wrong with them, or that they are "weak" or "fearful" or "judgmental." Don't let them convince you that it is somehow your fault that your husband uses porn, and that you are in the wrong for not approving of it. Everyone in the USA is allowed to have different rules for their own life, and in their marriage, as long as they are following the laws.

There are very few Christians here, and our views are constantly attacked and belittled. You know that is to be expected. Follow your conscience. Follow your God.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Edo Edo said:


> How is he being selfish and self centered?
> How is porn use wrong and damaging?
> 
> You've made those statements before, but fail to explain why you feel that way or offer any facts to back them up. You just keep on saying the same thing and expect people to just agree with you. Well, a lot of us don't agree. In that way, you are acting very similar to the OP. You have every right to hate porn. The OP has every right to hate porn. No one cares if you hate porn. But your rights end when you try to force any other adult (including your husbands) to live their lives or handle their bodies according to your views. You are lucky that you found a man who does not desire to view this form of entertainment. The OP was not as lucky, but she is either going to have to get over it OR continue to drag her, her husband, and anyone around them through her own personal hell until she finds a way to do so...


 For us, when we marry we are part of each other. We are no longer single and thinking only of ourselves. Therefore if we are doing something that upsets the other and causes damage to the marriage its up to us to stop that out of love and respect for them. 
Its very hard to understand how you can read the op's posts and not see how incredibly selfish and immature this man is being. 
Its damaging because it ruins so many marriages and lives. 60% of all divorces now site porn use as the reason for the divorce. Many men are so addicted that they can no longer have normal sex with their wives. Or they cant be bothered to. They are not forsaking all others, they are including thousands of other women into the marriage bed. They are probably thinking of these porn stars when they have sex with their wives.

Its an evil industry that exploits so many. I wonder if you would like your 18 years old daughter to be ogled at by all these men. They are all someone's child. 

BTW I wasn't just lucky to marry a man who thinks the same way I do about porn, I wouldn't have married a man who didn't. I have far more self respect than to be with a man who acted that way. 
Sadly the op made the mistake of thinking he would stop when they married, of course he didn't. Yes she may need to end the marriage if he refuses to stop, rather than waste her life with someone who cares nothing for her or the damage he is doing to her and their marriage.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Araucaria said:


> neonmoon1005, you're doing just fine. Your husband knew who you were, and he broke your trust. You did not "cause" him to look at porn, or push him to be secret about it. His own conscience made him do it secretly, because he knew he was going against his own character and the image he portrayed to you when he made his initial commitment to you.
> 
> A person doesn't need to make a list of every single thing they approve of and don't approve of when dating, because many of those things are usually covered generally and along with other things.
> 
> ...


Great post. We know how evil the porn industry is, sadly we are in a minority, and as you say often get attacked for our beliefs. However I hated porn before I was a Christian, so for me its not just that. 

To the op, you are not to blame, he has acted badly not you. Its natural that you don't want to share your husband with other women. Its normal.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Wazza said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > When you marry and vow to "forsake all others"... Yeah, its wrong. It doesn't matter what hubby thinks he is missing. He made a vow. Him having fantasy sex with porno ladies, yeah wrong. Instead, he should be thankful to have a wife who loves and desires him!
> ...


My wife had a baby recently... I waited for her.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Personal, you don't have to agree. I've stated how I felt and your response doesn't change that or make me feel bad or wrong about my stance. Again, I was looking for advice on how to deal with the trauma of being lied to many times. That's all. You're making a lot of incorrect assumptions about myself and my husband. It sounds like you just want to express how strongly you feel about how wrong I am instead of trying to politely trying to help.


Actually think there is nothing wrong with you not liking pornography at all and at no point have I written anything that says you should embrace it and view it yourself.

What I have done is offered you a good look at the dynamic of lying that is inherent in your relationship. While calling you on your own hypocrisy for not honouring your word/promise (as written by you as quoted) to your husband.



neonmoon1005 said:


> I never told my husband he could not watch porn


Then it ought to be a non-issue if he watches it.

Also considering the above quote and that it is an issue for you, perhaps you might consider trying to hold yourself to the same standards of integrity as you demand from your husband. Lest he suffer from the same anxiety as you, as a consequence of your propensity to lie.

Not being able to cope with someone lying to you is an extraordinary reaction, feeling anxiety over such things is evidence of mental illness.

I have suggested you take another perspective, in order to better cope with the reality you are in, rather than the one you wish you were in which is where you experience your conflict. You can let your anxieties rule your life and deepen your mental malaise or you can try another path.

As I wrote earlier it is up to you what you choose.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> I just spoke to my husband and he told me he's not lying and wont' anymore. He said the time I caught him was the one and only time he did it since marriage.
> 
> *Now it's simply my choice to forget what happened or tell him I can't trust him fully again and divorce.
> *
> Thank you to those who gave advice.





neonmoon1005 said:


> And no Wazza, there is not a "threat" of divorce. That would be a ridiculous and unfair thing to do. Divorced should be a mutual decision that two adults make together.


I can't immediately reconcile these two posts.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I'll be honest - reading your thread, I am not convinced that the problem isn't really just as simple as you don't want him masturbating to porn. You didn't start a thread entitled "My husband has been so dishonest over the course of our marriage that I can no longer trust him". You started a thread "Husband Caught Masturbating to Pornography".
> 
> I really do get the feeling that you're back pedaling in the face of stiff resistance. Am I wrong?





neonmoon1005 said:


> Cletus, you may be right.


I'm just not hearing a consistent message from you.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

OP I am not trying to have an argument or beat you up. I'm actually trying to help. I didn't write my last two posts to win some argument. I posted them to explain how I am hearing what you say. If I am getting confusing messages, maybe its me, but maybe its you. And if its you, maybe your husband is getting mixed messages sometimes as well.


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> For us, when we marry we are part of each other. We are no longer single and thinking only of ourselves. Therefore if we are doing something that upsets the other and causes damage to the marriage its up to us to stop that out of love and respect for them.
> Its very hard to understand how you can read the op's posts and not see how incredibly selfish and immature this man is being.
> Its damaging because it ruins so many marriages and lives. 60% of all divorces now site porn use as the reason for the divorce. Many men are so addicted that they can no longer have normal sex with their wives. Or they cant be bothered to. They are not forsaking all others, they are including thousands of other women into the marriage bed. They are probably thinking of these porn stars when they have sex with their wives.
> 
> ...



I find it hard to understand how you can read the OP's posts and not see how intrusive and oppressive she is being to her husband - and we haven't even heard HIS side of the story...

I guess the fundamental problem with conversations like these is that those who live by a stricter moral code simply expect everyone else to share their views, live in the same manner, and accede to their wishes - regardless of any circumstance. And if they don't, they are labeled "evil". Where do shades of gray belong in a "black and white" world? In the middle ages, they were burned at the stake. Now, many of them just vote libertarian... (but I digress...) 

In this case, the husband is not trying to change his wife's behavior. He is not trying to be oppressive or controlling. He is not asking her to watch porn. He is not forcing her to watch porn. He is not even watching porn in her presence. In my opinion, he (knowing she disapproves of this medium) is simply being discreet and enjoying it at a time when it won't bother her. It IS a shame that it comes across as hiding it. He shouldn't HAVE to hide it. He should have the personal fortitude (or "maturity" as you put it) to be upfront, honest, and say to his wife that she doesn't have the right to censor what he watches, though in respect for her beliefs, maybe he'll only consume it when she's not around or at home. Sadly, this isn't the case. She didn't even ask him why he wishes to watch it, she just demands that he stops completely - and expects his compliance. How is that loving? How is that respectful? How is that not being immature and selfish on HER part? Respect and love do work both ways...

I have heard what the OP has said loud and clear. She was upset about the masturbating to porn and him lying about it. My response and subsequent responses, are in fact meant to help. That, as a member of TAM, I'm taking the position that her reaction is way over the top and for the overall health of their marriage.... That in this case, the real issue is more than about not just about her getting her way... That she should reevaluate trying to push her strict moral views onto her husband in this instance... That her position is coming off as much too controlling... (And if I got these impressions from a few posts over the internet, I can only imagine how her husband feels about this). I know other members of TAM would offer differing opinions (hence our debate/discussion...), so she would get a wide range of responses - and then decide on a course of action from there. I hope everything works out of them. I really do, but I want it to work so that both of them have what they need to be happy. Not. Just. Her.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Edo Edo said:


> I find it hard to understand how you can read the OP's posts and not see how intrusive and oppressive she is being to her husband - and we haven't even heard HIS side of the story...
> 
> I guess the fundamental problem with conversations like these is that those who live by a stricter moral code simply expect everyone else to share their views, live in the same manner, and accede to their wishes - regardless of any circumstance. And if they don't, they are labeled "evil". Where do shades of gray belong in a "black and white" world? In the middle ages, they were burned at the stake. Now, many of them just vote libertarian... (but I digress...)
> 
> ...


I'm not sure why this is still being made an issue about porn, again unless I am completely off. This has a lot less to do about porn and a lot more to do about him being dishonest throughout the relationship.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

stillfightingforus said:


> I'm not sure why this is still being made an issue about porn, again unless I am completely off. This has a lot less to do about porn and a lot more to do about him being dishonest throughout the relationship.


It would be useful to have examples that weren't related to porn and masturbation to understand this more fully. Might help with the advice we offer.

I'm personally not seeing this as a porn issue.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> My wife had a baby recently... I waited for her.


How long?

How long would you wait?

Hours? 

Days? 

Months?

Suppose you wife explained that your expectations were unreasonable. How long would you wait?

I get your ideology. I am trying, as a fellow Christian, to get to the next level.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

@neonmoon1005

My take on the situation is there is a disconnect between you and your husband. You have a strong stance against some things he views as minor and no big deal. I have seen nothing to indicate that he watches porn all the time so I don't think that a porn addiction belongs anywhere near this conversation. He views his secrecy over occasional masturbation to porn as a kin to saying no hun I haven't noticed you have gained any weight. A little white lie that protects you rather than hurt you. It is a disconnect, he views it as a small inconsequential thing you view it as a pillar of you relationship being violated. Some people enjoy masturbation regardless of how much sex they have. They still crave that simple pleasure without having to think about another's pleasure. 

I suspect the same issue stands true for other "stupid lies" you referred to in your original post. 

So you need to accept that your view of some things differs from your husbands. If he goes through life being afraid to disappoint you he will build a lot of resentment and it will continue to strain your relationship. You might need to find some common ground and have a negotiation about what things you don't like but can live with and what things are a deal breaker. He needs to do some honest introspection and really think if he can live with that. If so great, if not you are going to go round and round with these issues for a long time. 

The case may just be, your husband made a deal he could not live with after all. He probably thought he could live with the restrictions you were very upfront about, but has come to realize he cannot. It sounds like he just doesn't want to fight about it.


----------



## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

stillfightingforus said:


> I'm not sure why this is still being made an issue about porn, again unless I am completely off. This has a lot less to do about porn and a lot more to do about him being dishonest throughout the relationship.


Agreed about the porn. To me, it isn't about porn either. You could remove "porn" from every post and the underlying issue would still be the same. In my opinion, expecting to have unnecessary control over someone else's life is the root problem here, which eventually led to the dishonesty aspects...


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

As'laDain said:


> where is the wank emoji?


 @SimplyAmorous was politely asked by the mods to refrain from using it as they had received complaints that it was offensive. Personally I thought it was a hoot.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Personal, my husband told me he had no intention or desire to watch porn before we were married. So, I was not being hypocritical but rather I was trying to make a point when I said "I never told my husband he could not watch porn." meaning it was his own idea. I never forced the idea on him.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Wazza, I am past needing advice at this point but thanks anyway. 

And to clarify, divorce is not a threat in our case because we have both discussed it. It is not held over his head.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Edo, you are also making incorrect assumptions. How do you know that I didn't ask my husband why he would wish to watch pornography? You just assumed I did not ask.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

CharlieParker said:


> @SimplyAmorous was politely asked by the mods to refrain from using it as they had received complaints that it was offensive. Personally I thought it was a hoot.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

What did he say when you asked him why he was watching porn?


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Ragnar, he said he could not get erect and wanted to get some ideas from the video.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

He may not be truthful in that answer, too pat an answer...maybe dig deeper in a kindly way?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

He may be looking for different ways to experience sex with you, and doesn't want to say some of the things he wants to do. Just a thought.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

I thought that too Ragnar so I did ask some questions but he assures me there is not anything new he wants to try.

If anything, I am the one who offers to try and new things and am very open to any ideas.


----------



## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

OP don't even know where to begin...

While some have indicated that you should accepting lying by your spouse, I agree and understand being totally thrown by it. My spouse and I are very open and if I caught him lying.... Well I'd be thrown no doubt. 

I also wouldn't want him masterbating to porn I view sex as something we share with each other. I wouldn't knowingly not meet his needs either. Though there has been times in the past I'm not sure I knew what those needs were. 

I wouldn't leave my husband for masterbating to porn on rare occasions but would probably if it was regulate because he wouldn't be the guy I think he is. I would however have some serious problems with repeated lying about anything. I just see no reason to lie to your spouse ( or pretty much anyone). I also don't ask stupid questions fishing for compliments like does this dress make me look fat? You are putting people in bad positions cause it is obvious which answer you want.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

anastasia6 said:


> I just see no reason to lie to your spouse ( or pretty much anyone).


Which is why the spouse who doesn't really want the answer shouldn't ask the question.

Say you have a very sexually conservative spouse with a substantially lower libido (any resemblance to actual people, real or implied, is purely coincidental). 

What greater good is served by being brutally honest about this issue? Your spouse already knows that she isn't fully meeting your sexual desire. Instead of asking your spouse for activities she doesn't like, instead of asking for sex at a much greater frequency than she desires, instead of being perpetually miserable over your sexual mismatch, you take some of the pressure off with some quality "me" time when no one is looking. 

Ok, one could say that you can only fix your sexual mismatch when you're completely open and honest with your spouse. 'Cept that ain't the way the world works. Some pooches can't be unscrewed. Some problems don't have a neat and tidy solution that magically flows from the honesty train. Sometimes incompatible means just that.

Those of us in these mismatched relationships already have to make significant concessions to our partner's sexual style. It is not unreasonable to allow us to self-medicate a little while still remaining within the monogamous boundaries of our marriage - anyone who says this is adultery is, well, just flat wrong. 

So don't ask the question if you can't tolerate the answer. Don't make me want to lie to your to protect your feelings.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Personal, my husband told me he had no intention or desire to watch porn before we were married. So, I was not being hypocritical but rather I was trying to make a point when I said "I never told my husband he could not watch porn." meaning it was his own idea. I never forced the idea on him.


Did he just say "I have no desire for porn." out of the blue? That would be a very unusual thing for someone to say without a good reason. I'm assuming that it was part of some other conversation where maybe you mentioned you were strongly against porn or something like that. So although you didn't ask him directly, I'm guessing he felt obligated to say something. For example, maybe you were talking and said "I'd never marry a man who watched porn." Since he didn't want to lose you, he lied and said he had no interest. Was it something like that?

I do think it was unfair of him to lie like that. I'm fairly certain that he's a typical man and has been viewing porn his whole post-puberty life. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, maybe he thought he would lose interest after marriage. But regardless, he certainly portrayed himself as being much more disinterested in porn that he really was. 

But I suppose you have to look at the real world. Most men view porn at least occasionally. If you want a man who truly has no interest in porn, you'll have to look for a very long time, and you may never really know for sure. It is very shameful for a man to admit it and he would likely be mocked if it was known. It would be like saying you wouldn't want to be with a man who picked his nose. Who would admit to that even if they did it? The reality is that any man you would be with would have this fault to some degree. If your H is a good man otherwise, try to accept this sin as something many people struggle with.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Anastasia, I simply cannot tolerate lying. Especially when the person who told the lie continues to lie.


----------



## neonmoon1005 (Jun 15, 2018)

Wison, if I do not remember how the conversation came about, but I told him I do not approve of pornography.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

It is sad and disturbing the number of men who will defend porn to their dying breath. I don't get it. Religion aside, when I think of a respectable man I just don't see him doing that! I think I always felt shame about it myself even though I wasn't raised in a conservative church and it was never discussed as wrong or even mentioned. I learned about it after converting to Catholicism and thankful I did. I want a pure and honorable marriage with my one and only beautiful wife.

For those who have said that my wife doesn't want me, that is a foolish lie. She's given me a houseful of children and we continue to have a wonderful love life. I will say that we ARE super busy and finding time together is extremely difficult (had a baby months ago). She's almost never refused to please me if time is short but likewise I often prefer to wait until she can really be mine 😉 

I came here to commiserate with other men. I think I found only one guy who shared my anti-porn opinion or even knew what it was like to suffer from sexual frustration.

I guess guys you will persist in your lies: "it doesn't mean anything", "I only consume ethical porn", "my body", "it doesn't take anything away from my wife", "its healthy", "its normal", "I have to meet my need", "its not adulterous", "men can't live without it", "its not addictive", the lies go on and on. 

I hope you ladies out there won't buy this bunch of hogwash. Throw the bums out, make them get treatment, make them share their browser history, put filters on internet devices (these protect children too). Divorce them and annul your marriage based on: infidelity. 

To any men who admit it is a lie, I salute you for taking the first step. I would call you friend and brother and would shake your hand (not shaking those other dude's hands...). Best wishes brother, you can rise above that filth. It will be a struggle but at least when you're old and dying you'll be able to say: I gave ALL my love, to my WIFE!


----------



## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

It seems you've co-opted religion to justify the sexual shame and repression you feel. 
You said you wouldn't shake the hands of men that have a different opinion about pornograpghy than you. 
"I guess guys you will persist in your lies..." that implies that the people you've disagree with here about pornography are liars. 
"Throw the bums out..." now you call the porn viewers bums. 
You've painted a terrible picture of Catholicism and of yourself with these comments CatholicDad. 
I hope that you can soon find peace within yourself.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

PigglyWiggly said:


> It seems you've co-opted religion to justify the sexual shame and repression you feel.
> You said you wouldn't shake the hands of men that have a different opinion about pornograpghy than you.
> "I guess guys you will persist in your lies..." that implies that the people you've disagree with here about pornography are liars.
> "Throw the bums out..." now you call the porn viewers bums.
> ...


The handshake comment was more a joke pointing out what guys are doing with their hand. 

Porn loving men ARE bums and liars (my words, not Catholicism's).


----------



## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> The handshake comment was more a joke pointing out what guys are doing with their hand.
> 
> Porn loving men ARE bums and liars (my words, not Catholicism's).


By their fruits shall you know them. Your fruit is not one of love and compassion for your fellow sinner but one of condemnation and judgement. I don't think you have that authority. Pray for understanding and inner peace.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

neonmoon1005 said:


> Anastasia, I simply cannot tolerate lying. Especially when the person who told the lie continues to lie.


A lot of the discussion in the thread has been about whether porn is really that bad, but obviously that is not the issue you're dealing with. He lied about something important. This wasn't a white lie. *He lied to be deceptive in order to hide something he knew would offend you. * It doesn't matter what the lie was about.

Way back when the porn discussion first came up, he should have been honest with you and dealt with the consequences. Maybe you would have broken up, maybe you would have come to an understanding, but he should have told the truth.

Going forward, you have to impress upon him how important it is that he's truly honest with you about everything. Tell him that being dishonest hurts you more than what he was doing. The flip side is that you need to create the environment where it's okay for him to admit things you might not like. That doesn't mean you have to accept it, but it can't be that you do something like blow up and throw him out of the house. Try to have a reasonable discussion where you hear his side and work things out.

As an example (not that I'm saying this is you), I used to lie to my parents all the time because their reaction was often extremely negative and the punishment was severe. I just told them what they wanted to hear because the consequences of the truth was extreme. As such, I didn't have a good relationship with my parents and didn't feel very close to them. I didn't share anything I thought they might not like. If instead I felt that they would listen and be supportive, I would have shared more with them.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@CatholicDad although you seem to be filled with hatred and bitterness towards others, for your own sake and for your family. I encourage you to masturbate (which doesn't require the viewing of pornography) and or have sex to orgasm at least 21x a month, in order to limit your risk of getting prostate cancer.

Your nonsensical refusal to masturbate in the absence of frequent sexual release, could see your family lose you to an early grave.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> I hope you ladies out there won't buy this bunch of hogwash. Throw the bums out, make them get treatment, make them share their browser history, put filters on internet devices (these protect children too). Divorce them and annul your marriage based on: infidelity.


 I'm thinking you're the type of guy who tells your always-pregnant, dutiful little wife that you're going out to spread the word of God to all the evil heathens of the world, but you *really* drive to Madame Monica's Dominatrix Dungeon, dress in leather chaps and a ball-gag, let her tie you down to a stone table and have her beat your ass with a switch for an hour.

Methinks he doth protests too much.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Not to defend or condemn porn (how about that) my comment isn't about porn. My opinion isn't the point here.

OP the point I'm seeing from your posts is the lie, and that's relatable. Most folks don't want to be lied to. It's a big deal.

Does H have a habit of lying to you? If not it may be he's not getting enough sex and he lied because he didn't want to disappoint you. I think that's already been touched on.

In TRW if a H gets turned down too many times in a row sometimes his little pea brain (humor) still reminds him he wants sex and he looks around and may justify his actions because he isn't getting his needs met.

If you keep this hanging over his head he will definitely build up a wall that you helped create. That will lead to problems in all aspects of your M.

You may want to forgive him and remind him you're there for him. Or not.....truly only you know what's best for you.


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Personal said:


> (which doesn't require the viewing of pornography)


Surely CatholicMom could provide some eye candy, and perhaps even get in to the mood to "assist".


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

CatholicDad said:


> The handshake comment was more a joke pointing out what guys are doing with their hand.
> 
> Porn loving men ARE bums and liars (my words, not Catholicism's).


There are men here who are proud of their porn watching and don't hide it from their wives. In fact they watch it together. So those men aren't liars.

Now regarding the "bum" part, can you come up with a better adjective? They have jobs, they provide for their families, don't beat their wives (unless their wives like to be beaten, slapped, or spanked) Along with all that, some encourage their wives to engage in sodomy to them or on themselves. What is the word for that? Bum just doesn't fit those behaviors.

Get ready, you and I are about to be stoned by the "everything is alright, how dare you speak negatively about something we do crowd" for speaking our opinion!


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I guess guys you will persist in your lies: "it doesn't mean anything", "I only consume ethical porn", "my body", "it doesn't take anything away from my wife", "its healthy", "its normal", "I have to meet my need", "its not adulterous", "men can't live without it", "its not addictive", the lies go on and on.
> 
> I hope you ladies out there won't buy this bunch of hogwash. Throw the bums out, make them get treatment, make them share their browser history, put filters on internet devices (these protect children too). Divorce them and annul your marriage based on: infidelity.


Just curious you do realize that about 50% of women watch porn regularly (at least once a week) and there is no difference in the percentage of religious v. non religious men who watch it. Now it is a fact that porn addiction is on the rise, also addiction to tech in general is on the rise and more likely to interrupt relationships than whether or not people watch porn together or separately. But it all depends on the individual, If a guy is more into porn than their partners obviously thats a serious problem. But if he's just using it to fill in when his partner is not in the mood it is likely a helper to preventing arguments and resentment. Its like anything, moderation is fine obsession is bad.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you ladies out there won't buy this bunch of hogwash. Throw the bums out, make them get treatment, make them share their browser history, put filters on internet devices (these protect children too). Divorce them and annul your marriage based on: infidelity.
> ...


Yeah, dominatrix stuff is probably your bag, not mine. I've never preferred ANY lady, fantasy or otherwise to my dutiful wife. I bet your man can't say that (probably watching porn right now).


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't think we're allowed to make personal insults against other members.

But we can insult other members "members", if you know what I mean *wink*wink*. (I know, I know.... just trying to lighten the mood)


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Personal said:


> @CatholicDad although you seem to be filled with hatred and bitterness towards others, for your own sake and for your family. I encourage you to masturbate (which doesn't require the viewing of pornography) and or have sex to orgasm at least 21x a month, in order to limit your risk of getting prostate cancer.
> 
> Your nonsensical refusal to masturbate in the absence of frequent sexual release, could see your family lose you to an early grave.


Oh come on Personal, there was only one inconclusive study and the rates were much higher.

Further, other studies have shown that the health benefits associated with sex, don't carry over to masturbation. Think on that... Maybe our creator doesn't like masturbation!


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > The handshake comment was more a joke pointing out what guys are doing with their hand.
> ...


How about man-boy? Body of a man, self control of a boy.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

happyhusband0005 said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > I guess guys you will persist in your lies: "it doesn't mean anything", "I only consume ethical porn", "my body", "it doesn't take anything away from my wife", "its healthy", "its normal", "I have to meet my need", "its not adulterous", "men can't live without it", "its not addictive", the lies go on and on.
> ...


Do you realize 85% of the regular posters on TAM are *********s?

We can all quote meaningless percentages...


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

PigglyWiggly said:


> CatholicDad said:
> 
> 
> > The handshake comment was more a joke pointing out what guys are doing with their hand.
> ...


Did you wash your fruit off down the sink after your last session?

Dang, guess I am mean and hateful today 🙂 🙂


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Porn also makes you penis bigger. No really it's science.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Porn also makes you penis bigger. No really it's science.


OK I give up then and am going hog wild for it then! Lol


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Kidding of course. Sadly it produces the opposite. Instead of getting "big" for a real woman, it gets "big" only for the latest on screen fetish.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> Oh come on Personal, there was only one inconclusive study and the rates were much higher.
> 
> Further, other studies have shown that the health benefits associated with sex, don't carry over to masturbation. Think on that... Maybe our creator doesn't like masturbation!


Then perhaps he shouldn't have given us a right hand and a ****. Or an appendix, for that matter. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Then perhaps he shouldn't have given us a right hand and a ****. Or an appendix, for that matter.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk




That wouldn’t work for me. I only masturbate with left hand. Even though I’m right handed. No idea why but someone upstairs has a good sense of humour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Actually that’s not true. I used to be left handed but my grand mother changed it (it was considered a handicap). 
Didn’t carry over to masturbation though.
Plus explains why my brain feels upside down... 🧠 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> That wouldn’t work for me. I only masturbate with left hand. Even though I’m right handed. No idea why but someone upstairs has a good sense of humour.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That’s intelligent design buddy. Right hand is for inputting search terms in the browser.


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Which is why the spouse who doesn't really want the answer shouldn't ask the question.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But apparently someone is ALWAYS looking though.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

notmyrealname4 said:


> @neonmoon1005
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow, how much porn have you watched? You listed more categories than there are on pornhub...
For me, wife is definitely not replaceable through porn in any shape or form. Not even close. It’s a masturbatory aid when things are...dry out there, nothing more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> My wife had a baby recently... I waited for her.




Where?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Kidding of course. Sadly it produces the opposite. Instead of getting "big" for a real woman, it gets "big" only for the latest on screen fetish.


Well, I am not going to argue merits for porn - but there are health benefits for frequent ejaculation. Most of the studies I have read (I do have a degree in sociology, took a number of sex and society classes, in addition to advanced anatomy and physiology classes, and human biology) reference masturbation, but I am sure partnered ejaculation has the same benefits (does the penis, prostate and testis know the difference?).

One benefit is harder erections and the prevention of ED. Those smooth involuntary muscles need frequent "exercise" to stay in healthy condition. The influx of circulation is good for pelvic floor health.

So in a way, yes, masturbation will make your penis at least appear bigger, as you will get better erections.

Unless of course you are having partnered sex to completion 20 times a month.

Frequent orgasms also improve mood, sleep and wellness as it has a positive effect on brain chemistry.

For women, we have the same brain chemistry benefits from frequent orgasms, along with the added physical benefits of reducing or eliminating menstrual cramps, prevention or cure of incontinence (strengthen pelvic floor) etc.

Not to mention better sex lives as women who masturbate tend to orgasm easier and men are able to delay ejaculation better.

It's fine if your god tells you its a sin to touch your willy, but if someone doesn't believe that dogma, it's hard to refute the benefits (and how absolutely nature it is).


----------



## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> (probably watching porn right now).



While being gagged by wife  oh yeah. Definitely 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

A degree in sociology, wow! I have an advanced degree in Basket Weaving. I also have a couple of other degrees, however that are more substantial, but I won't say what they are because I don't want to brag. If someone wants to know, they can probably find them in my old posts....or maybe not, because we used to be able to delete entire threads.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Araucaria said:


> A degree in sociology, wow! I have an advanced degree in Basket Weaving. I also have a couple of other degrees, however that are more substantial, but I won't say what they are because I don't want to brag. If someone wants to know, they can probably find them in my old posts....or maybe not, because we used to be able to delete entire threads.


Are you this much fun all the time? 

I wasn't trying to brag, but you were certainly attempting to make a petty insult. I am impressed.

I made reference as I have read the peer reviewed, journal published studies, the type that are usually behind a pay wall unless you have a subscription for academic reasons.

I am not going to indulge this "masturbation is bad" talk.

Thanks for the insult though. I bet that made you feel really good about yourself, huh?

Remember we get back why we put into the world.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Kidding of course. Sadly it produces the opposite. Instead of getting "big" for a real woman, it gets "big" only for the latest on screen fetish.


Uh Oh, Your busted you obviously have lots of experience. lol. I must not watch enough porn because I have never had a problem no matter how much porn I watch.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Araucaria said:


> A degree in sociology, wow! I have an advanced degree in Basket Weaving. I also have a couple of other degrees, however that are more substantial, but I won't say what they are because I don't want to brag. If someone wants to know, they can probably find them in my old posts....or maybe not, because we used to be able to delete entire threads.


Nice post.

You forgot to mention your PhD in jackassery.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

That's such BS. I promise you, any guys that take a month off porn will be able to cut diamonds. Try it.. It ain't a muscle and its ability to get hard has nothing to do with any of the muscles down there.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> That's such BS. I promise you, any guys that take a month off porn will be able to cut diamonds.


Sigh...

I can't imagine why being able to cut diamonds with ones penis would be a sought after thing.

I've gone plenty of months without looking at pornography at all, since well like most people pornography is just another form of entertainment which isn't always viewed.

I've even gone a few months without masturbating or having sex at all as well. For example when I was doing a rather intense suite of training courses, that saw me do over 100 hours of course work a week and more on top of that in study, masturbatory entertainment took a backseat to good food and sleep.

Through those and other experiences, I have come to the conclusion that one cannot cut diamonds with their penis, no matter how often they pray to an imaginary friend in the sky.

One thing I have found however is that viewing porn or not viewing porn has made no difference to my having sex. Whereas masturbation on the other hand does makes a difference.

What I have found is that when I don't masturbate or have sex for a long time, I end up having less control (stamina) over when I choose to have an orgasm when I do have sex, tending towards earlier orgasms rather than going on almost interminably if I like. I am also less pleasant as company as well, which sees that I am less likely to have my sexual partner want to have frequent sex with me as a consequence.

Personally I've never had a kink for trying to cut diamonds with my penis. Since I prefer to use my penis for taking a leak, having lots of orgasms and splattering my wife in any orifice or on any other part of her as I like.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Personal, the fact that you write a book with every pro-porn and pro-masturbation response means you are defensive. That tells me its bothering you. The conscience works in mysterious ways.

If its so good and healthy, at what age will you teach your kids about it? Point is, you won't. Right?

Maybe dads are actually teaching their sons about it now?


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

This seems to have diverged quite a ways from the OPs issue.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

CatholicDad said:


> Did you wash your fruit off down the sink after your last session?
> 
> Dang, guess I am mean and hateful today 🙂 🙂


YOU represent Christianity, Catholicism. do people see the doctrine behind your stance in life, or do they see you? 


which one do you think is more important to everyone else?


----------



## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Hi Neon

Its taken a time to get through this long thread so I am a little late with advice.

Firstly, It definitely IS about the porn. Its a bad idea to go into denial about how you feel because you can never get to the heart of the matter and it will make you vulnerable to future hurt and anxiety. Its not about lying. We have all lied at some point in our lives, usually for good intentions. Ever talked to a child about Santa? Or complimented someone on something they have done very badly? Sometimes we even lie to ourselves as a defense mechanism - I know I do. If your husband lied to you about doing the tax returns you would probably sigh and eye-roll and be slightly irked by his laziness. If he lies to you about porn then you feel devastated. 

It is OK to hate porn but it is unlikely to ever go away, so you need to reframe things in your mind so it will not be a constant threat in your own home.

It will never replace you. Porn gets boring very quickly. Your H may even feel a sense of disgust after he views it. Having sex with his sexy wife is so much more rewarding than a quick thrill looking at naked people having sex. If you are clever you will recognise the power your body has over your husband and use it to your advantage to create an amazing sex life for you both. There is nothing more alluring and sexy than a confident woman. People who are insecure can quickly become exhausting and unattractive to the those around them (ever had a needy friend who needs constant reassurance?). 

Some women feel porn makes them obliged to do sex acts that disgust them. You don't have to do any crazy stuff that is done in porn to have a great sex life. Most men, I am sure, would never want to act out much of what they see in porn. The idea behind pornography is that it is a fantasy - something to watch but not do. Nothing wrong with being experimental, but much of what is in porn is arousing because its unobtainable. This is why its a really bad idea to remonstrate with someone for using porn in order to stop them doing so because it can actually make it more appealing (forbidden fruit and all that). 

If you have lost some respect for your H you could perhaps turn the situation on its head. Isn't it better that he is a healthy, sexually virile man, horny for sex, than a spouse who has a low sex drive, asexual, pretty much a house-mate? (We do see this on TAM from time to time). Doesn't your husbands horniness turn you on?

I think also you may need to spend time together doing non-sexual, romantic things to remind yourself what it is that made you fall in love with each. A healthy sex life and spending quality time having fun together is the nuts and bolts of a marriage. Porn in comparison is such a trifling matter.

Good luck.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> Maybe our creator doesn't like masturbation!


Plenty of teaching on sexuality in the bible and masturbation is not mentioned once. Maybe it’s just not that big a deal to God.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Plenty of teaching on sexuality in the bible and masturbation is not mentioned once. Maybe it’s just not that big a deal to God.


Masturbation isn't mentioned but porn use(as in lusting after people we aren't married to) is.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

peacem said:


> Hi Neon
> 
> Its taken a time to get through this long thread so I am a little late with advice.
> 
> ...


 Its quite possible to be a red blooded man who loves sex and not watch porn. Its a decision not to watch porn, not something that men with a high sex drive MUST do or else. 

I also disagree that those who watch porn don't want to test out what they have seen. It happens a lot. They are then pressuring their partners to do things that they don't want to, that has happened to people here as well. There are also many reports of teenagers attacking young women in violent sexual ways, acting out their violent porn fantasies. Talk to any police man who works in that area. 

No it wont go away as you say, but we can keep it our of our own marriages and families.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Masturbation isn't mentioned but porn use(as in lusting after people we aren't married to) is.


Matthew 5:28? Agree that’s a reasonable interpretation. I read it slightly differently but that discussion’s a thread jack. Which is why I don’t defend porn. Though anyone who thinks the bible is puritanical should spend some time in Song of Songs. :wink2:


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Matthew 5:28? Agree that’s a reasonable interpretation. I read it slightly differently but that discussion’s a thread jack. Which is why I don’t defend porn. Though anyone who thinks the bible is puritanical should spend some time in Song of Songs. :wink2:


I don't agree that the Bible is puritanical at all. God made us to have and enjoy great sex, but only between the man and his wife. None one else is to be involved.


----------



## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I don't agree that the Bible is puritanical at all. God made us to have and enjoy great sex, but only between the man and his wife. None one else is to be involved.


Why did Sarah ask Abraham to take Hagar? And how does Solomon’s collection of 700 wives and 300 concubines fit?

Theres a lot to consider here.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> It ain't a muscle and its ability to get hard has nothing to do with any of the muscles down there.





> 2) It makes you harder.
> As you age, you naturally lose muscle tone — yup, even down there. *Regular sex or masturbation works out your pelvic floor muscles to prevent erectile dysfunction and incontinence*.
> 
> Masturbation "keeps the angle of your dangle perky,” said Brame. *That's because the smooth muscle of your penis needs to be enriched with oxygen, which is delivered whenever there's a rush of blood to your member* (i.e., when you get an erection).
> ...


https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a19534050/5-reasons-you-should-masturbate-tonight/


----------



## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> *Its quite possible to be a red blooded man who loves sex and not watch porn*. Its a decision not to watch porn, not something that men with a high sex drive MUST do or else.
> 
> I also disagree that those who watch porn don't want to test out what they have seen. It happens a lot. They are then pressuring their partners to do things that they don't want to, that has happened to people here as well. There are also many reports of teenagers attacking young women in violent sexual ways, acting out their violent porn fantasies. Talk to any police man who works in that area.
> 
> No it wont go away as you say, but we can keep it our of our own marriages and families.


It's possible but highly unlikely. It is not kind to suggest that OPs husband will just give up porn. He may agree to that and mean it, but at some point in the future she will be exposed to hurt again. People don't change unfortunately. 

I know, Diana, that you have the worlds most perfect husband. But the rest of us muggles have to compromise and tolerate our less than perfect ways in order to not be alone, raise children, pay the mortgage and generally survive the messiness of life. I'm glad you found such an innocent, but the rest of us will still be looking for the non-porn using partner when we are in our retirement homes - either that or keep getting hurt by lies.

I actually don't believe any of the other stuff - possibly among the absolute insane, control freakery community - but kind, decent, men do not impose crazy porn fantasies on their wives. My husband never has. My friends are all comfortable with their husbands porn use. My sister positively encourages it with her partner. My daughters male friends (she has lots at university) are kind, respectful, well brought up young men - yes they watch porn and do not attack fellow students in the depth of night. Not everyone is a victim or a psycho who cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality. 

If anyone is married to a man who forces extreme porn sex onto his wife I would be the first to tell them to run for the hills. Its his head thats the problem not the pornography.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Why did Sarah ask Abraham to take Hagar? And how does Solomon’s collection of 700 wives and 300 concubines fit?
> 
> Theres a lot to consider here.


Sarah disobeyed God by doing this, and it caused all sorts of problems as you can read.
As for the many wives etc, that was permitted by God for that time for all sorts of reason but it always led to trouble and unhappiness for those who indulged in it and their children. 
God's intention and desire was always for a man and a women to be married and keep sex for that marriage.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

peacem said:


> It's possible but highly unlikely. It is not kind to suggest that OPs husband will just give up porn. He may agree to that and mean it, but at some point in the future she will be exposed to hurt again. People don't change unfortunately.
> 
> I know, Diana, that you have the worlds most perfect husband. But the rest of us muggles have to compromise and tolerate our less than perfect ways in order to not be alone, raise children, pay the mortgage and generally survive the messiness of life. I'm glad you found such an innocent, but the rest of us will still be looking for the non-porn using partner when we are in our retirement homes - either that or keep getting hurt by lies.
> 
> ...


There are loads of men who dont watch porn, because they know its wrong, not because they aren't normal sexual men. Men managed without the sort of porn we have so accessible today for many thousands of years. 
I have read several accounts of people who have expected their partners to do what they have seen on line. Its very common. 

My husband isn't an innocent, he doesn't look because he KNOWS the many dangers and consequences of doing so. 
I guess that I would far rather be single than be with a porn using man. At least I would still have my self respect. 
I have many friends whose husbands don't watch porn, and many of them aren't Christians either. Its more common that you may think.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> There are loads of men who dont watch porn, because they know its wrong, not because they aren't normal sexual men. Men managed without the sort of porn we have so accessible today for many thousands of years.
> I have read several accounts of people who have expected their partners to do what they have seen on line. Its very common.
> 
> My husband isn't an innocent, he doesn't look because he KNOWS the many dangers and consequences of doing so.
> ...


What you seem utterly incapable of grasping is that no one begrudges you your choice of mate or your stance on pornography in your own life.

It's your inability to extend that same courtesy to those who choose otherwise combined with the 11 out of 10 hubris you radiate about the superiority of your choices that is grating.

Live your life according to your moral code and be happy. Spend less time looking down your nose at the rest of us, and both you and we will be much happier.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> There are loads of men who dont watch porn, because they know its wrong, not because they aren't normal sexual men. Men managed without the sort of porn we have so accessible today for many thousands of years.
> *I have read several accounts of people who have expected their partners to do what they have seen on line. Its very common.
> *
> My husband isn't an innocent, he doesn't look because he KNOWS the many dangers and consequences of doing so.
> ...


It's a long thread and I am guilty of skim reading but I haven't seen anything about OP being unhappy with sex. Lets not give her made up stuff to worry about...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Do you realize 85% of the regular posters on TAM are *********s?
> 
> We can all quote meaningless percentages...


I don't mean to be slow, but trying to be clear.....85% of TAM regular posters are what??

Tx,


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Kidding of course. Sadly it produces the opposite. Instead of getting "big" for a real woman, it gets "big" only for the latest on screen fetish.


Actually I call BS on this. 

No disrespect, just kindly disagreeing. I agree porn can be, not always though, be a problem.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I don't mean to be slow, but trying to be clear.....85% of TAM regular posters are what??
> 
> Tx,


HA HA HA I was trying to figure that out too. Christians? But that wouldn't be censored, Can I get a vowel Pat.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Let's see if we get an answer.


----------



## Knips (May 23, 2017)

It would be more something like this: My husband does not watch porn. Is he normal? Every healthy man has ever watched porn. It is normal.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Knips said:


> It would be more something like this: My husband does not watch porn. Is he normal? Every healthy man has ever watched porn. It is normal.


No, not every healthy man has watched porn. I know that many men like to think that, but its not true. Its only this generation who have had the range and severity of porn, the hard porn that we can find on line now. Men managed without it for many thousands of years.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Man managed without this generations version of porn
....
It has been around for a very long time, taking the form of the time. Again not pro/against. But looking at things realistically. 

From Roman, to Medieval, Renaissance and to today.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The Romans and French autocracy used live shows with slaves for entertainment, from historical texts.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Man managed without this generations version of porn
> ....
> It has been around for a very long time, taking the form of the time. Again not pro/against. But looking at things realistically.
> 
> From Roman, to Medieval, Renaissance and to today.


You can hardly compare the severity of porn today with a painting or drawing. Even when I found my dads porn it was playboy etc, at that time just pictures of topless women, very light porn compared to what people watch today.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> You can hardly compare the severity of porn today with a painting or drawing. Even when I found my dads porn it was playboy etc, at that time just pictures of topless women, very light porn compared to what people watch today.


Out of morbid curiosity, what do you think people are watching today that is so severe?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Out of morbid curiosity, what do you think people are watching today that is so severe?


Basically you can watch more or less anything that takes your fancy, from the soft porn to the very hard and violent stuff.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

As one could also see in time periods past.

Many of the first penny picture and film shows were naked women, and sex acts. It took about a millisecond for entrepreneurs to put that times' technology to work.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

In Viking and Medieval times and before, tragically, (to avoid someone saying I think that's ok) man/men would impose themselves on women, much without any repercussions. 

😉 one can't just generically say there's not been porn until current times.

The ease of access might be described as perhaps a major problem. And others may have a different opinion.


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

My XH did not watch porn. He showed no reaction to sex scenes in movies. I never found anything remotely resembling a magazine or even underwear ads from Sears & Roebuck. lol 

Said he rarely masturbated and I eventually came to believe him. I thought it was odd when we were dating but somewhat refreshing. 

THEN...I found myself in a sexless marriage. Hmmmm
 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I shouldnthave said:


> Are you this much fun all the time?


Most of the time!:flowerkitty:



Cletus said:


> Nice post.
> 
> You forgot to mention your PhD in jackassery.


Oh, yes! Thanks for reminding me! I earned that degree here on TAM...seriously! You and a couple of other posters were GREAT teachers over in the Politics and Religion section a few years ago! Thank you for all your help teaching me so I could earn that degree in such a short time!


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> There are loads of men who dont watch porn, because they know its wrong, not because they aren't normal sexual men. Men managed without the sort of porn we have so accessible today for many thousands of years.
> I have read several accounts of people who have expected their partners to do what they have seen on line. Its very common.
> 
> My husband isn't an innocent, he doesn't look because he KNOWS the many dangers and consequences of doing so.
> ...





Cletus said:


> What you seem utterly incapable of grasping is that no one begrudges you your choice of mate or your stance on pornography in your own life.
> 
> It's your inability to extend that same courtesy to those who choose otherwise combined with the 11 out of 10 hubris you radiate about the superiority of your choices that is grating.
> 
> ...


From what I've read from Diana7, she is not looking down her nose at anyone. She is just stating her reality. What I actually see in porn lovers' posts is porn lovers looking down their noses and attempting to belittle porn haters.

She doesn't hate you. She just disapproves of porn and doesn't believe the claims people are making that all sexual men love and use porn.

I agree that many men use porn. More than we even realize, because many keep it secret because they are ashamed of contradicting their own value system.

Not keeping it secret would not make it "good" and acceptable in God's eyes. (Yes, I dared to bring God into it. I base my beliefs on the Bible too, like Diana7.)

I do believe that porn is degrading to men as well as women. Even if ancient peoples had slaves perform sex acts in front of them and in public, or that there were pornographic paintings doesn't mean that porn use was as prevalent as it is today.

In the last 50 years, children know so much more about perverted sex than they did before. I didn't even know what homosexual men did together until I was in my teens. I had no idea about many banal sex acts between men, women, or same sex that my children are aware of because of social media.

I don't believe that their heightened awareness puts them at an advantage over us naiive people at their age. Their optimism, purity and outlook on sex has been defiled to some degree.

I pray my children (both sexes) marry people who simply enjoy piv natural sex between them, and who don't bring perversion, of any kind, to their marital bed.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> From what I've read from Diana7, she is not looking down her nose at anyone. She is just stating her reality. What I actually see in porn lovers' posts is porn lovers looking down their noses and attempting to belittle porn haters.
> 
> She doesn't hate you. She just disapproves of porn and doesn't believe the claims people are making that all sexual men love and use porn.
> 
> ...


So anything other than PIV is unnatural or perversion?


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ok everyone needs to understand something as these arguments tend to get out of hand. First I don't think any of the porn watchers here look down at people who don't. Some of those who are against porn do look down on porn use from a religious or moral standpoint but I don't think most of them are making the judgement that 85% of the population are bad people.

There is probably a lot of common ground such as porn addiction is a real thing, kids being exposed to it young will develop a warped view of what sex is really all about, and lying about watching porn is silly. 

The reality is these arguments start because the porn haters, are usually coming to the defense of a wife being told she is being crazy or irrational for being upset her husband is watching porn. It's purely a perspective thing and all sides are at fault for making things personal. Some people seem to be on a crusade against porn and are looking for a fight but I don't think there are more than one or two of them. 

So lets not make it personal. Unless someone starts talking nonsense about oral sex being bad, then we get the torches and pitchforks.


----------



## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> So anything other than PIV is unnatural or perversion?


No, there are other body parts that can go on and into the V, and the penis can go in the mouth. But if it isn't a natural body part, then it is not natural. And the anus is an "outie" not an "innie" for both sexes.

I remember my Human Gross Anatomy professor making the point of telling the class that the lower bowel and rectum were not hygienic and had the highest bacteria count of the entire body. He also explained how thin the skin was, and how easily it could be torn, and infection spread due to the high bacterial count. 

In another lecture he explained how thick vaginal tissue was, that it was a "self cleaning unit" and that it was designed for friction and child bearing.

He only reinforced what I learned many years later when I read the Bible and decided to believe it.

Read the book Song of Solomon. It is beautiful!


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> So lets not make it personal. Unless someone starts talking nonsense about oral sex being bad, then we get the torches and pitchforks.


And masturbation, I will bring out my pitchfork if people try to guilt others that masturbation is morally wrong.

Porn? I am not going to defend porn - but let's not tell people that touching their own bodies is wrong, and should be something to feel guilty about, or something you should have control over your spouse about. People should be able to touch their own genitals without condemnation.


----------



## Ditch (Apr 16, 2014)

Well thats why. He isnt demanding you do it. He is just taking care of business himself.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

So what do all you porn lovers think about children accidentally seeing porn on the computer/phone/tablet. Y'all OK with that? If its all so good and healthy you gonna let your kids start young on this "healthy" business.

I think not. Maybe you should reevaluate your stance. 

I also wonder how many "Harvey Weinstein's" are in that industry? Oh but I know, y'all only watch ethically produced porn!


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> So what do all you porn lovers think about children accidentally seeing porn on the computer/phone/tablet. Y'all OK with that? If its all so good and healthy you gonna let your kids start young on this "healthy" business.


Well how else are they going to be prepared for the middle school orgies?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> So what do all you porn lovers think about children accidentally seeing porn on the computer/phone/tablet. Y'all OK with that? If its all so good and healthy you gonna let your kids start young on this "healthy" business.


I figure it's a lot healthier than getting buggered by the parish priest.

But I only let my kids watch porn if they put down my gun or whiskey. Pick one. You'll need the free hand.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

You guys are sick... So you won't even admit its bad for kids? You continue your defense of porn with jokes and sarcasm?

You clearly are misinformed about the damage it is doing to young people.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> You guys are sick... So you won't even admit its bad for kids? You continue your defense of porn with jokes and sarcasm?


Yawn...


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> You guys are sick... So you won't even admit its bad for kids? You continue your defense of porn with jokes and sarcasm?
> 
> You clearly are misinformed about the damage it is doing to young people.


Dude, no one believes it's ok for kids.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> So what do all you porn lovers think about children accidentally seeing porn on the computer/phone/tablet. Y'all OK with that? If its all so good and healthy you gonna let your kids start young on this "healthy" business.
> 
> I think not. Maybe you should reevaluate your stance.
> 
> I also wonder how many "Harvey Weinstein's" are in that industry? Oh but I know, y'all only watch ethically produced porn!


And I agree this is running off the rails a bit.

First, no one has said "it's ok for children to view porn" that's ridiculous and no one's good with that.

Not defending or supporting. There is one reality, right or wrong, sex sells in trw from clothing to sports and almost all items. And there's cyber porn for adults. Everyone has to make their own choices. 

No, CP was also not around when I grew up and I think it was better. 
That said since we're in the first couple generations of CP, maybe in the following generations the novelty will die down.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> You guys are sick... So you won't even admit its bad for kids? You continue your defense of porn with jokes and sarcasm?
> 
> You clearly are misinformed about the damage it is doing to young people.


It's your Great White Whale, Ahab, not mine.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> So what do all you porn lovers think about children accidentally seeing porn on the computer/phone/tablet. Y'all OK with that? If its all so good and healthy you gonna let your kids start young on this "healthy" business.
> 
> I think not. Maybe you should reevaluate your stance.
> 
> I also wonder how many "Harvey Weinstein's" are in that industry? Oh but I know, y'all only watch ethically produced porn!


So many studies have shown that porn use among children is doing the most incredible damage. Its tragic. 

Those who look at porn will always try and justify its use.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> So many studies have shown that porn use among children is doing the most incredible damage. Its tragic.
> 
> Those who look at porn will always try and justify its use.


Who advocated giving porn to kids? I missed that.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Who advocated giving porn to kids? I missed that.


Yeah, me too. Sounds a lot simpler than finding it abandoned in a dumpster like I had to do growing up. 

Kids these days have it too easy.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Yeah, me too. Sounds a lot simpler than finding it abandoned in a dumpster like I had to do growing up.
> 
> Kids these days have it too easy.


For real. I had to steal it from my older brother and risk a knuckle sandwich.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

And the spring/summer Sears and JC Penney's catalogs...

 also the older brother stash.....


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Now someone in this thread allowed that Playboy and Penthouse magazines were found as years gone past porn version, but no trouble was assigned to that owner in the house. 

That was the top of the line back then. Playing devil's advocate.....how come that was OK?


----------



## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I remember when we were kids and the gypsy fair used to come to our village, me and my friend would make a bee line for the Edwardian pornography machine - the type you would put a coin in and turn the handle. We thought it was hilarious! My mother was really cross when I told her - totally confused me. She was totally ok with us befriending the gypsies but mortified by the Edwardian porn. Lol.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

peacem said:


> I remember when we were kids and the gypsy fair used to come to our village, me and my friend would make a bee line for the Edwardian pornography machine - the type you would put a coin in and turn the handle. We thought it was hilarious! My mother was really cross when I told her - totally confused me. She was totally ok with us befriending the gypsies but mortified by the Edwardian porn. Lol.


See! No worries with that circumstance.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

^^^ Somewhat similar for me, some of my friends and I found a stash of magazines hidden next to a creek we would play at. In looking at it all of us both boys and girls, thought it was hilarious what adults did in those pictures.


----------



## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

When we visited Barcalona with my 8 year old daughter, I was horrified at how the porn mags were sold in full view of anyone who would glance at them. I wouldn't let my daughter anywhere near the stands in the centre of the street. The relative I was travelling with (who had lived there for years) said spanish people had a different attitude towards porn than us British and don't hide it from children. (In the UK porn magazines are usual covered and on a high shelf). Also lots, and lots of sex shops! Even one next door to our hotel. Ironically, Barcalona is a very religious city and as much as there is sexuality in your face, there is also an abundance of iconography, religious tat and churches on almost every street corner.


----------



## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Yeah for some people sex is just something that people do and images of the same isn't a cause for concern amongst them. Where such things are normalised, it simply isn't considered an issue as such. Us British people on the other hand, tend to have more hang ups about it.


----------



## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

peacem said:


> When we visited Barcalona with my 8 year old daughter, I was horrified at how the porn mags were sold in full view of anyone who would glance at them. I wouldn't let my daughter anywhere near the stands in the centre of the street. The relative I was travelling with (who had lived there for years) said spanish people had a different attitude towards porn than us British and don't hide it from children. (In the UK porn magazines are usual covered and on a high shelf). Also lots, and lots of sex shops! Even one next door to our hotel. Ironically, Barcalona is a very religious city and as much as there is sexuality in your face, there is also an abundance of iconography, religious tat and churches on almost every street corner.





Personal said:


> Yeah for some people sex is just something that people do and images of the same isn't a cause for concern amongst them. Where such things are normalised, it simply isn't considered an issue as such. Us British people on the other hand, tend to have more hang ups about it.


The basics the human race needs to survive are water / food, sleep, and to reproduce. 

Sex is as natural as existing. 

While I understand this last primal drive comes about after puberty, when we are at a age that we can reproduce, reproduction is a very natural thing. 

CULTURALLY we have made it shameful, something that should be hidden away. We do not eat in shame, or only behind closed doors - but culturally this is where sex fits in.

Some smaller tribal societies do not hide sex at all, and rather treat it like a basic instinct, an necessity to continue the human race. And in those societies, its not shameful, or damaging for children to know about it, just like children understand the need for food, sleep and shelter. 

Its social construct that makes sex such a bid deal.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Now someone in this thread allowed that Playboy and Penthouse magazines were found as years gone past porn version, but no trouble was assigned to that owner in the house.


Wait, WHAT?!

Someone is asserting that nudity (photos, IRL) is porn? That is just mind-boggling, do they avoid viewing art in museums too?

Oh, and you better warn the Netherlands, Germany, China (et all) that they are "promoting pornography" in their cultures. 

Really people, viewing a naked body never "traumatized" anyone.


----------



## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Is there a clear line between porn and nude / erotic art, and just plain nudity?




Red Sonja said:


> Wait, WHAT?!
> 
> Someone is asserting that nudity (photos, IRL) is porn? That is just mind-boggling, do they avoid viewing art in museums too?
> 
> ...


----------



## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Is there a clear line between porn and nude / erotic art, and just plain nudity?


“I know it when I see it” - Suprem Court Justice Stewart in _Jacobellis v. Ohio_.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

uhtred said:


> Is there a clear line between porn and nude / erotic art, and just plain nudity?


To me there is, but I go by the definition of the word pornography … that is the depiction of erotic _behavior_. A nude human-being photographed, portrayed in art or on a public beach is not erotic, only a vivid imagination makes it so … i.e. the _behavior _part is in the mind of the beholder.


Then again, I don't think like the idiots who were charging parents (in the 1980/90's) with child-pornography for having pictures of their children in the bathtub. I also despise what most of the western world/religious parents teach their children about their bodies, to me it's dysfunctional and damaging to the psyche.


----------

