# Going vegetarian....



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I am debating going vegetarian? Anybody else, how easy was it? Anything else you can tell me? I am thinking of trying it for a week to see.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I should add I will continue to eat eggs (free range organic) and dairy.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

highwood said:


> I am debating going vegetarian? Anybody else, how easy was it? Anything else you can tell me? I am thinking of trying it for a week to see.


If I was single, I would try to make the jump, except that I would continue to eat fish and other small seafood. Trying it for a week would be pretty easy for me as I also love eggs, nuts, and Tofu.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah H will not go vegetarian I am sure. BUt he would be okay with me doing it obviously and I would still have to buy him meat.

Yes I would continue to eat fish, esp. tuna.

I figure there is so many other foods that I can eat that I probably would not miss chicken and beef.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Please be careful with the tuna- Mercury exposure is toxic and eating tuna more than once a week can increase exposure and cause health risks. 

I'd also recommend reading up on soy before incorporating it into your diet, which many vegetarians do.

And, how old are you?


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I sure like a balanced diet with lots of variety. I was on a Doctor recommended diet that cut out most fruit and grains, I sure ended up with some strange cravings. Sadly I need to go back on that diet soon for a few months. 

I understand than many non diabetic people can do quite well on a vegetarian diet. I also understand ethical vegetarians. It's just not for me. Good luck to you and don't feel bad if you just have to eat a steak some day. The occasional cheat makes dieting possible.
MN


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

In reply to @Jessica38 post on tuna.

Albacore Tuna has a lot more mercury than the smaller shorter lived fishes. The mercury threat has more to do with how long the fish lived. Before cutting tuna out of your life do some more research. I'm pretty sure yellow fin, Aihi, and skip jack are safe to eat much more often. Sorry about the Albacore (white), I like it too. But I just eat the light tuna now.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Hi, I am in my late 40s....yeah for me it would be more for ethical issues. There was a case here in Canada about horrible abuse of chickens on a poultry farm and it really bothered me. Understand that I know these type of places existed before but you don't really think about it, then when you see it on the news it sickens me and my mind starts to think about it. 

I was saying to someone maybe I should just get my meat from a local meat shop as they use locally owned farmers, who I was thinking maybe treat their animals more humanly and then they said to me, but how do you know that for sure??? Even if you go to a farmer's market and ask someone selling meat, of course , they will tell you what they want you to hear. They said the one advantage is that the big livestock farms would have way more scrutiny from inspectors, etc. I know there is one large farm that is SPCA certified that sells their meat locally so maybe I can just buy from them once in a while

I would like to give up meat altogether but I know H still likes meat so I would have to buy it anyway.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

I have been veggo for pretty much all my adult life, 30 odd years. I am an ovo lacto veg so eat eggs and dairy. I am however quite strict in that I do not eat foods with gelatine or rennet (found in some cheeses). To me it is very easy to be veggo because it is something that is core to who I am as a person. 2 of my kids are veggo, 1 isn't and MrH isn't however he eats a lot less meat since we have been together and feels better for it.

What you are talking about is not being vegetarian, eating fish and seafood is pescatarian which is an important differentiation to make.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

highwood said:


> Hi, I am in my late 40s....yeah for me it would be more for ethical issues. There was a case here in Canada about horrible abuse of chickens on a poultry farm and it really bothered me. Understand that I know these type of places existed before but you don't really think about it, then when you see it on the news it sickens me and my mind starts to think about it.


For me, it was exposure to a large slaughter house of hogs. I understand that we eat them, but why must we also treat them so cruelly? Most domesticated hogs are friendly and curious social creatures. Seeing each of suddenly being hoisted into the air by a chain wrapped around one leg and then having their throat slit has haunted me for several years. Each domesticated hog is destined for a terrifying and painful death. I might still eat pork if they were to be killed in a more merciful way.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Steve1000 said:


> For me, it was exposure to a large slaughter house of hogs. I understand that we eat them, but why must we also treat them so cruelly? Most domesticated hogs are friendly and curious social creatures. Seeing each of suddenly being hoisted into the air by a chain wrapped around one leg and then having their throat slit has haunted me for several years. Each domesticated hog is destined for a terrifying and painful death. I might still eat pork if they were to be killed in a more merciful way.


Frick, exactly I feel very emotional the last few days thinking about this stuff and how this will go on and on long after I am gone. That is what is bothering me is even at humane farms the animals are still being processed.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> In reply to @Jessica38 post on tuna.
> 
> Albacore Tuna has a lot more mercury than the smaller shorter lived fishes. The mercury threat has more to do with how long the fish lived. Before cutting tuna out of your life do some more research. I'm pretty sure yellow fin, Aihi, and skip jack are safe to eat much more often. Sorry about the Albacore (white), I like it too. But I just eat the light tuna now.


Mercury from tuna is really only a problem when consumed by children or pregnant women. An adult likely isn't going to build up enough mercury in their body for it to really be a problem.

If you're worried about it anyway, sardines have virtually no mercury in them, are more sustainable than tuna, and hella good.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

highwood said:


> Frick, exactly I feel very emotional the last few days thinking about this stuff and how this will go on and on long after I am gone. That is what is bothering me is even at humane farms the animals are still being processed.


I sent a facebook message to an organization that I have donated to in the past, it is a farm and they take in rescue farm animals. I asked them if by chance they know any humane suppliers of farm meat and they said that they do not support that as they do not believe in taking of animal lives, of creatures that want to live like you and I. Of course when I read that I felt sick again and started to cry. I have been feeling so eomtional about this the last few days. Probalby silly of me to ask them but I thought they are so compassionate toward animals...then I think I am such an animal person and love animals and donate to rescue organizations all the time yet I eat meat????


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I feel like crap about this....as I think I can't expect my husband to give up meat, he would eat less of it, but not give it up. Then I think I can't change the world this stuff is jgoing to go on and on as at least half of the populations eats meat if not more. Yesterday I felt okay becasue I found a local spca certified meat provider and I bought some chicken breast from them, certified humane. Then I started to think later but they stillkill the chickens regardless of how good of a short life they have.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

For me being veggo is about not wanting to eat animals as well as the environmental impact meat farming has on the planet. I feel really good about it both physically and mentally. I understand the feelings you are having about this and urge you to just give it a go. It is not that hard once you get into a routine with various recipes to be in a veggo/non veggo blended family.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Mrs.Holland, I think it would be okay for me because I do not eat much meat anyway...i.e. if we have a roast beef I eat probably about 1/4 cup of the beef and concentrate more on the potatoes/salad/vegetables instead. Often the potatoes is the best part of the meal for me. I think I will peruse some basic vegetarian recipes and see what I comeup with.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Maybe too the best thing to ease into would be if, for example, dining out, etc. just choosing a vegetarian dish all the time. This way you slowly do it more and more then it becomes like second nature.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

HW this is one of my fave websites for recipes 

https://www.thehealthychef.com/

Eating out can be a bit of a pain at times as some places really do not understand veg cooking. I never have risotto for eg as often they use chicken stock even in vegetable risotto. Or they think veggos eat fish. Often places will only have rice or pasta dishes as veg on the menu, two things I can live without lol


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Thank you!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I've been Pescetarian since I was 10 and I'm almost 37.

I have a very carefully balanced diet that works for me. Must have good sources of protein,hence why my parents wouldn't let me go full blown veg at such an early age. I love fish. 

I have always taken multivitamins. I eat Marmite for the hard to get B12 (love it).

Doctors have never given me a bad report card. Blood tests show I'm not deprived of anything.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Skinnytaste is another good recipe site, and the author has some cookbooks as well.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Protein and B12 are found in foods other than meat: eggs, cheese, whey powder ...... my girls are both veg from pre teens and so far no issues with periods.

HW here is something to consider (don't know your age, stage in life) I am post menopause and breezed my way through it in comparison to most. After the fact i did some reading and found out that eating a veg diet high in things like soy, legumes, seeds etc can be really beneficial for women at this stage in life. Mind you I had 3 decades of this diet before hitting menopause and I doubt just changing diet would impact much if it were done close to menopause.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I would never be vegetarian for a few reasons, most of which are on this website
https://paleoleap.com/paleo-for-vegetarians/
1) If you want to be veg because of ethical reasons, eat ethically raised meat instead. Better yet, kill it yourself. Visit farms and learn how they raise their animals. Talk to the farmers. Get to really KNOW your food. One of the BEST thanksgiving turkeys I ever had - actually probably THE best - was one I killed myself.
2) Soy is something I avoid like the plague for many reasons
https://www.westonaprice.org/soy-alert/
3) I don't believe human physiology is designed to do without animal protein and be healthy
4) I am FAR too in love with my steaks and bacon 

I do think we eat too much meat. Traditionally, we ate less and it was far harder to come by. I eat more than I probably should. But I don't think cutting meat out entirely is healthy either.

There's tons of evidence to support what I am saying, and tons of evidence to support being vegetarian or vegan. What it boils down to is for each of us to decide for ourselves after considering everything we can. I hope the links above provide you with some 'food for thought'


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> I would never be vegetarian for a few reasons, most of which are on this website
> https://paleoleap.com/paleo-for-vegetarians/
> 1) If you want to be veg because of ethical reasons, eat ethically raised meat instead. Better yet, kill it yourself. Visit farms and learn how they raise their animals. Talk to the farmers. Get to really KNOW your food. One of the BEST thanksgiving turkeys I ever had - actually probably THE best - was one I killed myself.
> 2) Soy is something I avoid like the plague for many reasons
> ...


The bolded is absolutely not true and purely scaremongering.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MrsHolland said:


> The bolded is absolutely not true and purely scaremongering.


I wasn't scare mongering - I was giving my opinion ??? As an aside, I often find that vegetarians, and especially vegans, are quite defensive and militant about it and take offense when people say they don't believe it's healthy. I certainly don't take offense when people tell me they don't think eating meat is healthy.

If you eat vegetarian, you have to find alternatives to animal products and monitor what you eat far more strictly than if you do eat meat, because you have to make sure you're getting what you need to be healthy. I hate playing 'war of the articles' with people, but here's one

https://www.westonaprice.org/health...oods/vegetarianism-and-nutrient-deficiencies/

I am sure you can post many that refute everything that one says, so by all means 

Also, every vegetarian I've ever asked has told me that if they were pregnant they'd eat meat, and they WILL feed their infants and children meat. I am not an expert by any stretch, but if those who are think that way, meat can't be ALL bad can it?

Anyway, I didn't post what I did to argue. I posted it as something to think about.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MrsHolland said:


> The bolded is absolutely not true and purely scaremongering.


I think it's true in certain parts of the world. I think human nutritional requirements can differ greatly depending on circumstances. If you take an Inuit and dump him in the middle of SE Asia and put him on rice subsistence diet, he's not going to fare very well. Same in reverse. A guy from Cambodia probably won't last long eating whale blubber.

You can see even locally how nutrition works differently in different people by comparing how people react with different weight loss programs. One program might make a person evaporate overnight and their neighbor won't see any results. I believe our individual bodies require different things. There's no one-size-fits-all diet. I do very well on a largely paleo based diet, but my mother does not for example.

The biggest problem I see with an entirely vegan diet is getting enough B12. My aunt is vegan, and her husband gave it a solid go, but ended up having to go pescatarian on his doctor's advice. He just wasn't thriving, whereas my aunt does just fine on greens and coffee.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

@jld. I don't think jld is a lifelong vegetarian, and has gone between vegetarian and vegan, so she can offer what the transition was like. 

I know a number of vegetarians and vegans in the running community, some ethical and some for health.

Some are in good health and some aren't.....its just as easy to eat a crap vegetarian diet as it is to eat a crap meat diet. 

I'm not vegetarian, but I don't do much red meat. And I buy organic poultry and dairy.

Everyone benefits from eating a little less meat.

The first thing I think many people should do is limit eating out and eat real food, not packaged crap.

Whatever diet you choose make sure you limit junk and eat real food.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I'm always amazed that most of the vegitiarians i know are on the heavy side.

Paleo diet for me.

Carbs are the enemy. I treat them like junk and only have them sparingly. 

I do know 1 person who was 6'6'' 375lbs. He went vegitiarian . Very strict made sure he got everything he needed amino acid wise with a suplement. Lost 125 lbs looked fantastic said he felt the best hes ever felt. Said he thinks better feels smarter and needs less sleep .

Haven't seen him in 15yrs wonder if he feel of the wagon.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

highwood said:


> I am debating going vegetarian? Anybody else, how easy was it? Anything else you can tell me? I am thinking of trying it for a week to see.


I tried it for about 10 to 15 years, but eventually I had to return to eating meat as the vegetarian diet was not working for me. This was on the advice of a Doctor.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Thanks for your input all...alot to think about. I think what I will do is have days (like today) where I had no meat products at all as often as I can and try and buy local humane certified meat if I can. It is challenging as I have a H who likes meat and I have a dog and most people's pets eat meat in some form.

This has been a challenging week as I am bothered by the news story and I am very sensitive about animals in general to begin with so when I hear stuff like this it is difficult for me. I was discussing with someone and they said that the one bright thing about stuff like this when it happens, is that many people get involved and hopefully changes are made to ensure less and less that this stuff happens.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jessica38 said:


> I'd also recommend reading up on soy before incorporating it into your diet, which many vegetarians do.
> 
> And, how old are you?


Much of the "research" done into soy and soy products is lobbied for and sponsored by the meat and dairy industries, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm not a tinfoil hat kind of guy, but meat and dairy is BIG industry, and they have a lot to lose when more and more people stop using their products. And big business, as we all know, doesn't fight fair.

I've been vegetarian for over 20 years now, almost half my life, but I'm low-key about it. I wasn't always, however... My wife and kids eat animal products, and I'll cook much of it for them.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

highwood said:


> Hi, I am in my late 40s....yeah for me it would be more for ethical issues. There was a case here in Canada about horrible abuse of chickens on a poultry farm and it really bothered me. Understand that I know these type of places existed before but you don't really think about it, then when you see it on the news it sickens me and my mind starts to think about it.
> 
> I was saying to someone maybe I should just get my meat from a local meat shop as they use locally owned farmers, who I was thinking maybe treat their animals more humanly and then they said to me, but how do you know that for sure??? Even if you go to a farmer's market and ask someone selling meat, of course , they will tell you what they want you to hear. They said the one advantage is that the big livestock farms would have way more scrutiny from inspectors, etc. I know there is one large farm that is SPCA certified that sells their meat locally so maybe I can just buy from them once in a while
> 
> I would like to give up meat altogether but I know H still likes meat so I would have to buy it anyway.


This is the 20 year old version of myself speaking here, but there's really no such thing as humanely treated/killed animals. Just because they have a 'better' life before being slaughtered doesn't somehow make it okay, IMO. The end result is still the same - death for an unnecessary purpose. And that's exactly why I stopped eating animals - you don't have to do it. People do it (especially in the Western world) because they can, and because they like it - nothing more.

My POV has always been if you can't kill it yourself, then it's really a moot point where the animal came from and how it was treated. Most people couldn't fathom putting a bolt gun between the eyes of a cow and pulling the trigger. Instead, they pay someone else to do it, so they don't have to.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I think I am going to as often as I can just to start eliminate meat from my meals...I want to do this slowly and in a way that I am not making a huge statement to everyone in my life because then I find people watch you and if for whatever reason that meal/day you are eating meat then they comment on it. I vow that when I go out for dinner whether it be at a fast food place or a sit down restaurant I will choose either meatless or fish. Slowly but surely always works better for me, make small changes then build on them so they last.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Make friends with the portobello. Marinate a big portobello in olive oil (give it time for the oil to really soak in) and grill it for a few minutes--fantastic meatless burger, and it has a "beefy" quality you can't get from much else.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> I wasn't scare mongering - I was giving my opinion ??? As an aside, I often find that vegetarians, and especially vegans, are quite defensive and militant about it and take offense when people say they don't believe it's healthy. I certainly don't take offense when people tell me they don't think eating meat is healthy.
> 
> If you eat vegetarian, you have to find alternatives to animal products and monitor what you eat far more strictly than if you do eat meat, because you have to make sure you're getting what you need to be healthy. I hate playing 'war of the articles' with people, but here's one
> 
> ...


And in my experience the bolded is simply untrue. All the veggos I know are very well informed and if anything make far better food choices because of it. Humans do not have to rely on meat to have a healthy diet, if they choose to eat meat then that is their choice, it is as simple as that.

As for pregnancy, I have 3 kids and being veggo did not affect pregnancy at all. 

I get it that it was your opinion but let's be clear, the statement is opinion and not fact. There are millions of people and plenty of cultures throughout the world that prove otherwise.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

alexm said:


> Much of the "research" done into soy and soy products is lobbied for and sponsored by the meat and dairy industries, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm not a tinfoil hat kind of guy, but meat and dairy is BIG industry, and they have a lot to lose when more and more people stop using their products. And big business, as we all know, doesn't fight fair.
> 
> I've been vegetarian for over 20 years now, almost half my life, but I'm low-key about it. I wasn't always, however... My wife and kids eat animal products, and I'll cook much of it for them.


I also buy and cook meat for the non vegetarians in my family as well as guests (of which we have a lot of, love entertaining). All the veggos I know are very pro choice about what other people choose to eat, unfortunately the reverse is often untrue.... if I had a dollar for every time a stupid comment was made about my choice to be a veggo, well i would have quite a few more dollars.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

MrsHolland said:


> I also buy and cook meat for the non vegetarians in my family as well as guests (of which we have a lot of, love entertaining). All the veggos I know are very pro choice about what other people choose to eat, unfortunately the reverse is often untrue....* if I had a dollar for every time a stupid comment was made about my choice to be a veggo, *well i would have quite a few more dollars.


Like how "fearful" they are for you, lol, while they take how many pills a day for their high blood pressure, diabetes, arthritis, ED, migraines . . . 

Hi, highwood. Looks like Mrs Holland and others have given you helpful advice. I am sure you will do fine.
@Curse of Millhaven is a faithful vegan on these boards. I wish I could say the same about myself. For the last 21 years I have been going between vegan and lacto-ovo vegetarianism.

If you do consider going vegan, one very good cookbook author is Jo Ann Stepaniak. I have several of her cookbooks and I don't think any of her recipes has failed to please. She is a pro.

Also, the McDougall board is a good place to go for all kinds of advice. Lots of info and support there. https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

alexm said:


> Much of the "research" done into soy and soy products is lobbied for and sponsored by the meat and dairy industries, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm not a tinfoil hat kind of guy, but meat and dairy is BIG industry, and they have a lot to lose when more and more people stop using their products. And big business, as we all know, doesn't fight fair.
> 
> I've been vegetarian for over 20 years now, almost half my life, but I'm low-key about it. I wasn't always, however... My wife and kids eat animal products, and I'll cook much of it for them.


All reasearch it tainted .all reasearh is lobbied for in one way or the other


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Make friends with the portobello. Marinate a big portobello in olive oil (give it time for the oil to really soak in) and grill it for a few minutes--fantastic meatless burger, and it has a "beefy" quality you can't get from much else.


Another idea is to get skilled with cooking Buddhist recipes. They have made a science of making ****ake mushrooms amazingly flavorful.

Eta lol at the word censor. Should have known.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

chillymorn69 said:


> All reasearch it tainted .all reasearh is lobbied for in one way or the other


For sure. I wasn't claiming otherwise. I gave up comparing research long, long ago, especially in regards to the omnivore vs. vegetarian argument.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

chillymorn69 said:


> All reasearch it tainted .all reasearh is lobbied for in one way or the other


That's true.. .everyone has an agenda. Doesn't necessarily make them wrong, only that it predisposes them toward favoring an interpretation that suits their agenda.

One pretty good indicator is how a food plan makes you feel. I know that when I dabbled with low carb I felt terrible, so for me carbs are not the enemy. 

Garbage carbs should be cut down, but good carbs are important.

Besides, when I don't eat enough carbs I smell like cat pee when I run. Ask me how I know this.....

If a food plan makes you feel good that's a good sign.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

alexm said:


> Much of the "research" done into soy and soy products is lobbied for and sponsored by the meat and dairy industries, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm not a tinfoil hat kind of guy, but meat and dairy is BIG industry, and they have a lot to lose when more and more people stop using their products. And big business, as we all know, doesn't fight fair.
> 
> I've been vegetarian for over 20 years now, almost half my life, but I'm low-key about it. I wasn't always, however... My wife and kids eat animal products, and I'll cook much of it for them.


My wife likes to eat as little meat as possible but she has a dreadful allergy to soya porducts, plus also to gluten, so many vegetarian options aren't suitable for her.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> That's true.. .everyone has an agenda. Doesn't necessarily make them wrong, only that it predisposes them toward favoring an interpretation that suits their agenda.
> 
> One pretty good indicator is how a food plan makes you feel. I know that when I dabbled with low carb I felt terrible, so for me carbs are not the enemy.
> 
> ...


Apparently this is possibly why https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/o-m-g-i-smell-of-cat-pee/


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

OK, here is a quick recipe for everyone to try.

Get some rolled oats, a cup should be enough. You can add savoury seasonings, if you wish.

Take a frying pan and put a generous amount of vegetable oil in it.

Get the oil hot -but not too hot!- and add the oats, stirring with a wooden spatula.

Cook for several minutes then add to any savoury vegetable dish you are cooking.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Apparently this is possibly why https://thefastdiet.co.uk/forums/topic/o-m-g-i-smell-of-cat-pee/


Yeah, I looked it up the first time it happened because it was strong and I'm fairly certain I'm not incontinent


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> I would never be vegetarian for a few reasons, most of which are on this website
> https://paleoleap.com/paleo-for-vegetarians/
> 1) If you want to be veg because of ethical reasons, eat ethically raised meat instead. Better yet, kill it yourself. Visit farms and learn how they raise their animals. Talk to the farmers. Get to really KNOW your food. One of the BEST thanksgiving turkeys I ever had - actually probably THE best - was one I killed myself.
> 2) Soy is something I avoid like the plague for many reasons
> ...


:iagree:

OP, I highly suggest reading up on estrogen dominance. It can cause unwanted weight gain, infertility, cancer, etc. Soy contains phytoestrogens, which our bodies recognize as estrogen hormones. Do not recommend soy to your husband- it has been linked to lower sperm count, testosterone imbalance, and an increased risk of cancer. 

Also, soy contains anti-thyroid compounds that can lead to thyroid conditions.

Studies are available in the link Hope provided above. Additionally, here is a list of studies done by reputable medical institutions, including the National Institutes of Health and John's Hopkins:

http://toxicstudylist.blogspot.com


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

MattMatt said:


> My wife likes to eat as little meat as possible but she has a dreadful allergy to soya porducts, plus also to gluten, so many vegetarian options aren't suitable for her.


If she doesn't have wheat/gluten allergies, seitan is a good option.

I'm not a big fan of soy myself, but I have no allergies, so it's part of my diet.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Jessica38 said:


> :iagree:
> 
> OP, I highly suggest reading up on estrogen dominance. It can cause unwanted weight gain, infertility, cancer, etc. Soy contains phytoestrogens, which our bodies recognize as estrogen hormones. Do not recommend soy to your husband- it has been linked to lower sperm count, testosterone imbalance, and an increased risk of cancer.
> 
> ...


And here is why linking to studies and research and 'expert' opinions is never a great idea when it comes to food.

Organic, non-GMO soy is absolutely fine, and none of the things mentioned above are, or would be, a concern in regards to consuming it.

The soy referred to above is genetically modified among other things. It's essentially what processed cheese slices are to actual cheese, for comparison's sake.

Steer clear of that stuff, and there are no issues.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Primal Endurance

why we get fat and what to do about it

by gary taubes

interesting reads.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

alexm said:


> And here is why linking to studies and research and 'expert' opinions is never a great idea when it comes to food.
> 
> Organic, non-GMO soy is absolutely fine, and none of the things mentioned above are, or would be, a concern in regards to consuming it.
> 
> ...


Alex, phytoestrogens and anti-thyroid compounds isoflavones are in both organic and GMO soybeans, unfortunately. Cruciferous veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage) also pose this problem as they contain anti-thyroid goitrogens as well, but cooking them can lessen the effects. Cooking does not remove these compounds from soy, which are known endocrine disruptors and can lead to thyroid disorders. I do appreciate your stance on non-GMO foods though.

OP, being over 40, you want to be sure that you're eating to support your thyroid, which is why I urge you to read up on the health risks of consuming soy, including organic. Thyroid conditions are on the rise in women over 40:

https://kresserinstitute.com/underlying-causes-thyroid-disease/


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

I think finding what works for your body is whats important. Theres no right or wrong its what you feel healthy at and enjoyment of what your eating.activity level play a big part of how many calories you need. On days that I'm less active I eat less I might even skip a meal.

MHO

all this red meat is bad is total bunk! refined foods of any kind are bad! Fruit in moderation. lots of animal fat and protein and vegies. 
oh and lots of beer, cheese,and skiddles. nachos,cup cakes,

never mind I give up.


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## urf (Feb 18, 2017)

highwood said:


> I am debating going vegetarian? Anybody else, how easy was it? Anything else you can tell me? I am thinking of trying it for a week to see.


Two of my three sons are vegetarians as id my wife. There are exceptions. One will eat fish.

There is the story of the famous Buddhist monk who when invited to speak at a large banquet found out that meat was being served even though he was a vegetarian. The hostess was very apologetic. He soothed her and said..... It's okay, I cheat.


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## katiecrna (Jan 29, 2016)

Sometimes making the switch can be difficult and people just give up because it's too hard. I think you should first start with eliminating chicken. Do that for a few weeks. Then eliminate beef and pork. 
My suggestion is to do it slowly.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

katiecrna said:


> Sometimes making the switch can be difficult and people just give up because it's too hard. I think you should first start with eliminating chicken. Do that for a few weeks. Then eliminate beef and pork.
> My suggestion is to do it slowly.


Absolutely I am kind of just doing it loosely right now...I have not had meat in two days, partially a diliberate choice and partially just the usual choices I make. So it is kind of cool that I know I can go minimum two days with out meat not that I am a huge meat eater anyway but probably had it at least three days per week.

I am still feeling down about this whole factory farming thing...I have shed a few tears as it kills me that people can treat birds/animals so cruelly. 

I am really mixed on the humane farming thing...I get that it is nice that while they are alive they are taken care of properly but it still bothers me to see the little chicks knowing that in a year or sooner they will be processed. When that farm rescue organization wrote on their facebook page, as they keep the rescued farm animals for life and do not believe in profiting from them, that they want to live too like you and I do, it broke my heart to hear that. I can't get that out of my mind.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

highwood said:


> Absolutely I am kind of just doing it loosely right now...I have not had meat in two days, partially a diliberate choice and partially just the usual choices I make. So it is kind of cool that I know I can go minimum two days with out meat not that I am a huge meat eater anyway but probably had it at least three days per week.
> 
> I am still feeling down about this whole factory farming thing...I have shed a few tears as it kills me that people can treat birds/animals so cruelly.
> 
> I am really mixed on the humane farming thing...I get that it is nice that while they are alive they are taken care of properly but it still bothers me to see the little chicks knowing that in a year or sooner they will be processed. When that farm rescue organization wrote on their facebook page, as they keep the rescued farm animals for life and do not believe in profiting from them, that they want to live too like you and I do, it broke my heart to hear that. I can't get that out of my mind.


You are a kind soul, highwood.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

highwood said:


> Hi, I am in my late 40s....yeah for me it would be more for ethical issues. There was a case here in Canada about horrible abuse of chickens on a poultry farm and it really bothered me. Understand that I know these type of places existed before but you don't really think about it, then when you see it on the news it sickens me and my mind starts to think about it.
> 
> I was saying to someone maybe I should just get my meat from a local meat shop as they use locally owned farmers, who I was thinking maybe treat their animals more humanly and then they said to me, but how do you know that for sure??? Even if you go to a farmer's market and ask someone selling meat, of course , they will tell you what they want you to hear. They said the one advantage is that the big livestock farms would have way more scrutiny from inspectors, etc. I know there is one large farm that is SPCA certified that sells their meat locally so maybe I can just buy from them once in a while
> 
> I would like to give up meat altogether but I know H still likes meat so I would have to buy it anyway.


You might want to check your local butches. 

We have a couple here that are known to have only ethically raised live stock and chicken. Free range, grass fed, etc. Their meat is more expensive than most grocery story meat. But you can really tell the difference.

You might have something like that there where you live.


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## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

highwood said:


> Absolutely I am kind of just doing it loosely right now...I have not had meat in two days, partially a diliberate choice and partially just the usual choices I make. So it is kind of cool that I know I can go minimum two days with out meat not that I am a huge meat eater anyway but probably had it at least three days per week.
> 
> I am still feeling down about this whole factory farming thing...*I have shed a few tears as it kills me that people can treat birds/animals so cruelly. *
> 
> I am really mixed on the humane farming thing...I get that it is nice that while they are alive they are taken care of properly but it still bothers me to see the little chicks knowing that in a year or sooner they will be processed. When that farm rescue organization wrote on their facebook page, as they keep the rescued farm animals for life and do not believe in profiting from them, that they want to live too like you and I do, it broke my heart to hear that. I can't get that out of my mind.


HW I am not an animal lover per se but feel exactly the same as you about cruelty to animals. There is no right or wrong when it comes to how you start on the path to vegetarianism, the pace or extent that suits you is the only thing that matters. There is a movement that is low meat as opposed to no meat so people have dedicated meat free days each week. 

There is so much scaremongering when it comes to veggo lifestyle so if you are going to follow any of the links given in this thread keep in mind that foundations such as Weston Price are considered quackery by the scientific field. Just do a google for why is WP anti vegetarian and you will get plenty of links which completely discredit them. 

One of the traps many veggos fall into is to over do their now meat free diet with grains so it might be worth your while to research what a truly healthy veg diet is. Don't just fill the meat void with grains.

I buy it and cook it for others but personally I would go without food rather than eat something that had a face and parents. The mere thought of eating meat makes me feel ill. Strangely I like the smell of roast chicken lol


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think it's important to be thankful that we live in a time where people can pick and choose what they eat, because for most of human history that wasn't true. People ate what was available.

I have heard vegetarians and vegans make the claim that people weren't meant to eat meat. That's a huge load of crap and demonstrates an elitist attitude and a real ignorance of human history.

One of the reasons humans have flourished as a species despite our greed and stupidity is because we can eat whatever is available. If you lived in areas where it was hard to grow anything and all you had was whale blubber that's what you ate. Before agriculture people either hunted or foraged, and hunger/starvation was a real problem. Foragers had to pretty much spend all day every day foraging and hunger was a problem.

There were certainly people that thrived on plant based diets but that was dependent on availability.

It's difficult know know who actually had better health across the different diets because war, starvation, and disease got so many people before they were old enough to have health issues.

Of course things balanced out in that meat eaters had to hunt and may not eat for a while until the next successful hunt, and while meat and fat is rich it took a lot of calories to hunt. 

Otoh, farmers lost a lot of crops to weather and bugs so plant diets could be hard too before the mass use of pesticides.

My father was an old time Jewish butcher, so I heard about the meat industry my whole life. It's changed a lot from when he started in the 50's. I think mass meat and poultry production is unsettling, certainly nothing like the family farm that was so common into the first part of the 20th century. My dad told me that when he started in the industry it took 2 years to raise a steer, but now it's done in 9 months with the hormones the industry uses.

It's a shady industry, but I could make same argument about the entire American food industry.

If you have ethical concerns the first thing you should give up is non organic poultry..... those poor guys are stuffed in cages their entire lives. And for the love of god don't eat lobster.... I know someone who won't eat meat because it's "unethical" but will eat a lobster that's been boiled alive.

Really????? A bolt to the brain, which is what they do to cows, is worse then getting boiled alive?

I think cutting way back on animal products and spending the money for free range, local organic stuff is the way to go. And eat real food.....limited processed junk.


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