# Mama Drama



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hi guys, I need some advice on how to survive the holidays with my Mom, who is a bit of a challenge. Backstory: our relationship is kind of love-hate for lack of a better word, and it's been that way for years. I thought that as I got older, things would get easier, but they're more of a challenge. Her and I can both get snippy with each other; I apologize, she does not. 

The long and short of it is this (and I've posted about this subject before): I'm 40 but she treats me like I'm about 15. I've told her in the past that I don't appreciate this, but my communication falls on deaf ears. Last night on the phone, she began telling me about the city-wide wind warning and that I really shouldn't be going out tonight (this is the same lady who, years ago, told me that her and I couldn't go shopping one day because it had started raining lightly, and what if a tornado happened). I don't let a little rain, snow or wind hold me back from living, so I just told her that I would monitor the weather. She'll tell me other things like what time I should be going to bed, how I should be training my dogs, how I should schedule the things in my life, etc. The conversation went to her not understanding why I get snippy with her at times, so I told her (again) that I don't appreciate being told what I should and should not be doing, that I'm an adult and will make decisions based on what I think is best. I was told that she doesn't treat me like I'm 15, that I'm too sensitive and I read too much into things. I am sensitive, I'll admit that, but don't feel that it's a bad thing; it's just who I am. I've tried to change to make her accept me more, but it's hard to change the core of a personality. So, I can't win in this situation; she refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoings, and she throws it back in my face as it being my fault/problem.

When I got married, I pretty much married the male equivalent of my mother, and I couldn't do it anymore. I divorced him, but cannot divorce my mother. I told her last night that this situation was like being back in my marriage again. I also started crying and told her that it makes me sad that they're getting older and I would like to have a relationship with her. She's very stoic, and I don't think things like that bother her much. I'm not even sure if she wants to try to fix the situation, as she doesn't seem to care. I know that she probably does, but this is the vibe that she gives off. She's very detached. 

So, my question is: I'm going to my parent's place for the holidays, starting Saturday, and am dreading it. I don't want to be around her, I don't enjoy it when my entire family gets together, and I don't know how to get through it without losing my ****. I can only take so much before I snap. I always apologize and feel badly, but I also look like the "bad guy" as a result. I called my sister last night about some advice, as she has the same type of relationship with our mom, and she's also dreading the holidays. I'm curious to see if her advice aligns with the advice I'll get here.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"I've tried to change to make her accept me more, but it's hard to change the core of a personality. So, I can't win in this situation; she refuses to acknowledge any wrongdoings, and she throws it back in my face as it being my fault/problem." 

You won't get her to change -- she is set in her ways. She is in permanent "MOM" mode with you.

"I don't let a little rain, snow or wind hold me back from living, so I just told her that I would monitor the weather. She'll tell me other things like what time I should be going to bed, how I should be training my dogs, how I should schedule the things in my life, etc."

When she starts this, how about you say "Thanks Mom for the thoughts. I appreciate you helping me out" and the LEAVE IT at that. Don't bristle, don't get pissy, just let it go in one ear and out the other. You don't have to follow her advice, just tell her that you appreciate it. She is your Mom and she it doing "Mom" things -- although I do admit, she doesn't see you as an adult and that you are perfectly capable of making your own decisions about things.

Basically, yes her to death and just continue on with making your decisions. IF she really gets on you because you actually DIDN'T follow her advice, you just have to nicely say "thanks for your input Mom. I thought about it, but decided to do XXXX" and again, leave it.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Don't argue with her. Just ignore when she says things you disagree with so that you are not spurring an argument. A line like "I appreciate your concern, thanks" should be the end of the discussion then you can change the subject. 

If she won't stop talking about the topic there are actually psychological ways you can disrupt her train of thought so you can change the subject. I do it with my dad because he just will talk incessantly about a subject that no one cares about other than him which makes a two way conversations difficult. To do that you basically just make a statement that is grammatically difficult to follow so they just go "huh" then you redirect the discussion while their brain is processing what you said. For example, I'll interrupt my dad and say things like "why is it you believe the things you say you think are true" then while his brain is processing that garbled mash of words I change the subject and he doesn't even notice. Use it sparingly so she doesn't catch on.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I appreciate your concern, thanks"


why be nice? Just say: "And your point is?"


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> why be nice? Just say: "And your point is?"


Because this gets me nowhere except in the middle of an argument that I don't want to be in. My Mom already has heart issues, and I don't want to be the reason that she has more issues with that.

Also, one more question (and this is stupid and my own issue, I know). She doesn't blow her nose unless reminded. She just vacuums the snot up, and it's really gross. It bothers me, and creates a gag reflex when I'm eating. I'm usually the one to ask if she needs a kleenex, and she gets annoyed at that. She'll be more on-edge now, and I really don't want to contribute. How do I ignore this grossness? I know that it bothers me more than it probably should because I really don't get along with her and don't like her personality all that much.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Ursula said:


> Because this gets me nowhere except in the middle of an argument that I don't want to be in. My Mom already has heart issues, and I don't want to be the reason that she has more issues with that.
> 
> Also, one more question (and this is stupid and my own issue, I know). She doesn't blow her nose unless reminded. She just vacuums the snot up, and it's really gross. It bothers me, and creates a gag reflex when I'm eating. I'm usually the one to ask if she needs a kleenex, and she gets annoyed at that. She'll be more on-edge now, and I really don't want to contribute. How do I ignore this grossness? I know that it bothers me more than it probably should because I really don't get along with her and don't like her personality all that much.


Ok this one, I have nothing. UGH. Especially if she does it while you are eating. Maybe she should have a nasal spray (saline), etc. BEFORE you sit down to eat?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Watch the movie "Goodbye Lenin". Not kidding.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My mother can be much the same way. She's very....managing...in her approach to dealing with pretty much everything. It can be very irritating, if I let it get to me. She means very well, but she compulsively mothers to the point that it's maddening. So, for my own sanity, I decided long ago that I simply cannot let it irritate me. She's doing it because she loves me, that's just who she is, and there is zero chance of me changing her to make her personality suit me better. I've learned to just let it go. 

How often are you talking to your mom? I've found my mom and I get along much better if we aren't always in contact. The concept of involving my mom in my daily life, and thus having her continually treating me like a somewhat slow 12 year old, just isn't something that's going to work for me. So I don't do it. We don't chat daily. I don't keep her abreast of every happening. She's not my bestie. When we do talk, we just catch each other up on anything important. By not talking to her daily or more, as some women do with their moms, I'm not sharing the minutia of my life with her and so not giving her anything to micromanage. She doesn't get to give me her thoughts on how I should be conducting every facet of my daily life. Because I neither ask, nor give her much chance to do that. 

Which means that when we do get together, she hasn't been picking apart my every move on a near-constant basis. That gives me more energy to deal with it for the duration of Thanksgiving Day or Christmas. It's much easier to just let it go in one ear and out the other, to say "thanks" with genuine respect for her well-meaning suggestions, and not let it all get to me. Because I'm not already in a state of burn-out from having to deal with it all the time. 

By the way, my mom and I would both describe our relationship as close. But it's mostly because I refuse to let it degrade into an unhealthy co-dependence. We aren't joined at the hip, so we aren't always aggravated with one another. Some distance, some separation, between a mother and her child's daily life isn't a problem. It can actually allow a healthy, loving, relationship between parents and adult children to flourish.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

When you were born, she was the 'part' you left behind, at 'Post Partum'.

The thing is.....it is depressing to you, refreshing to her. 

When you show up, when she hears your voice, it triggers her to that day, the day she first saw her baby girl.

..................................................................................................

Yes, she looks at you like a baby.

Does this, while adult men look at you like a "babe".

Be happy that she is around to look at you, to mother you.

One day, one day soon she will be gone.
At that point this predicament will seem funny.....and comforting.

Make it comforting now.

When she starts her advising, walk up to her and give her the biggest hug.
And tell her that you love her too.
Kiss her cheek. 

Don't do it in a any way that she would feel disrespected. 
Such that you are making fun of her worries, her concerns.

I would be curious, I would, curious to see how she reacts.

Do it, let us all know.

Do it repeatedly, do it with no drama, do it with compassion.
No, not every time but often enough.

Tell her that you are her baby girl, that she is your 'Mommy Dear'.

.............................................................................................

Hopefully, she knows not of Joan Crawford.
Oh my!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Rowan said:


> My mother can be much the same way. She's very....managing...in her approach to dealing with pretty much everything. It can be very irritating, if I let it get to me. She means very well, but she compulsively mothers to the point that it's maddening. So, for my own sanity, I decided long ago that I simply cannot let it irritate me. She's doing it because she loves me, that's just who she is, and there is zero chance of me changing her to make her personality suit me better. I've learned to just let it go.
> 
> How often are you talking to your mom? I've found my mom and I get along much better if we aren't always in contact. The concept of involving my mom in my daily life, and thus having her continually treating me like a somewhat slow 12 year old, just isn't something that's going to work for me. So I don't do it. We don't chat daily. I don't keep her abreast of every happening. She's not my bestie. When we do talk, we just catch each other up on anything important. By not talking to her daily or more, as some women do with their moms, I'm not sharing the minutia of my life with her and so not giving her anything to micromanage. She doesn't get to give me her thoughts on how I should be conducting every facet of my daily life. Because I neither ask, nor give her much chance to do that.
> 
> ...


I love this, I do.

I am experiencing this too [always have] and not from my Mother. :surprise: :|:frown2:



THRD-


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Simple, there is a 3 knot wind reported at the bridge between you and grandmothers house. You won't be able to safely attend.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

So, who told you were too sensitive? Did Mom tell you that? Manipulative/controlling behavior, like much else of what she does.

Are you staying at their house? I would recommend staying at a hotel if you can afford it, so at least you can get away and have some space to yourself, so you're not around family all the time.

I like Rowan's idea of creating a little more distance. My mom and I don't have the best relationship, and I've put a lot of distance between us, which I'm sure hurts her, but it's what's best for me, and I need to prioritize what is best for me over her feelings. We have a difficult relationship because of her and her dysfunctional behavior, and I'm not going to reward that with more access to me. The funny thing is, which I think Rowan mentioned, is with distance, our relationship has become better, but it is by no mean close. My mom took it personally that I was pulling away, which somehow forced her look at the way she was interacting with me... I don't entirely know what happened on her end, but she finally figured out that some of her behavior was pushing me away [I think so, anyway], and she stopped doing some of the stuff. She doesn't try to guilt trip me and manipulate me the way she used to, and she's generally kinder to the people around her.

I don't know if that helps or not.

It's too late this year, but maybe you could plan a vacation or trip next year over the holidays, so you don't have to go home for Christmas.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Ach! Children never learn.

They don't, don't wanna.

It's the Momma's that hold life together, more so than the Poppa's.

I was not close to my mother or father. Not at all.

That was their call, their doing, not mine.

To this day I harbor a bit of grief, swallow any resentment.

I would not be kicking and screaming without 'em.

Right! Never left.

If my arm were long enough, I would paddle the whole lot of ya' !


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Yes, do the separation thing, never the cold shoulder sting.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I have forgotten, do not remember if you have children. 
I think not.

This may be a sore point, if so, I apologize in advance.

If you have not had children, the possibly having them now, at 40, the chances are slowly slipping away.
You know this. Sorry to bring it up.


If you give her grandchildren expect her to change dramatically. Especially, when she knows her ability to see them depends on her behavior.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Rowan, I get what you're saying about her being the way she is because she loves me, but I'm 40 and am done being raised. I'm old enough to have raised my own children, and to be a young grandma by now. To answer your questions, I talk to my mom everyday after work. She worries about me on my own, and appreciates me checking in with her. I've tried not calling, but she'll usually call to check in and make sure I made it home from work okay. I let her know yesterday that I need to stop talking to her everyday. She replied that she didn't know why I do anyways. I explained why, and said that I feel like a horrible daughter if I don't call. I however, have stopped telling her much of anything at all. What you say makes much sense, and I look forward to trying some new tactics in the new year to try to improve things between us. I'm burned out with dealing with this as it is now.
@FeministInPink, it was my mom who told me that I'm too sensitive, but she's told me that for years now. My sister is coming out, and unfortunately yes, I'm staying at their house for a few days. Sis and I will probably sneak off and grab some sister-time, as we're both in the same boat and neither of us get along well with our mom. I only live 20 minutes away from my folks, so if things get too bad, I'll just go home with my dogs. I've also asked my sister to just quietly nudge me if I start to get snippy with mom. I also like Rowan's idea, and will be implementing that starting today. I don't think it will force mine to reflect on the way she's interacting with me, as she thinks there's nothing wrong with it. 

Thanks to everyone for the replies; your advice pretty much echoes my sister's advice. I also just ordered a book off Amazon: "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers", which I'm looking forward to reading and learning off of.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Ursula said:


> Hi guys, I need some advice on how to survive the holidays with my Mom, who is a bit of a challenge. Backstory: our relationship is kind of love-hate for lack of a better word, and it's been that way for years. I thought that as I got older, things would get easier, but they're more of a challenge. Her and I can both get snippy with each other; I apologize, she does not.
> 
> The long and short of it is this (and I've posted about this subject before): I'm 40 but she treats me like I'm about 15. I've told her in the past that I don't appreciate this, but my communication falls on deaf ears. ..........
> 
> ...


First I didn't see a question.

One observation from an old guy is that family relationships are fun to watch. Lots and lots of family members when they get together for holidays, birthdays, etc. revert back to childhood relationships as all parties feel "safer and more comfortable in that role." As a spouse, it was fascinating to see my wife and her adult married brother transform before my eyes, when they entered their parents house. They effectively created a situation that brought about the "parent mode" in their parents. There is something about going home to a parent's house, especially if they have kept a room for you that is a shrine to another era and another you.

Have you thought that you might be a big part of the problem? You said you married the male equivalent of your mom. 

If you want to change, do some serious introspection. First and foremost act the part of the independent adult who is present at the holidays to "enjoy" family company and catch up on people's lives. If your mom says something that bothers you smile at her, tell her that you love her, count to 10 silently, then say to yourself she can only get under my skin if I let her, I can be the adult today, I don't have to take offense at anything she says. You really don't. If she keeps pressing, look at her tell her you love her and you are here to enjoy family and thank her for her concerns, but tell her you are now an adult in charge of their own life. If she takes offense say no offense was meant (and mean it) and that you want to enjoy the holiday's with her and the rest of your family.

Good luck.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Ursula said:


> Thanks to everyone for the replies; your advice pretty much echoes my sister's advice. I also just ordered a book off Amazon: "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers", which I'm looking forward to reading and learning off of.


That sounds like an excellent book. Be sure not to "accidentally" leave it at your mom's house after your visit.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

SunCMars said:


> I have forgotten, do not remember if you have children.
> I think not.
> 
> This may be a sore point, if so, I apologize in advance.
> ...


I don't have children at this time, no, and you're right, it is a sore spot for me because I would love to be a mom now. At one point, I didn't want to become my mom, and so the thought of having my own kids and possibly having the same kind of relationship made me feel ill. Now, I know better, and have enough self-awareness to be different.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@Young at Heart, I KNOW that I'm part of the problem. I'm definitely not innocent in this situation, but the difference is that I recognize that, apologize and try to smooth things over. She refuses to acknowledge her part in anything. I'm Sorry, I guess I didn't actually ASK a question, but make more of a statement for people to comment on. As for marrying the male equivalent to my mom, from the research that I've done, this isn't unusual. A lot of times, people who go through trials in their parental relationship(s), will choose a partner with similar qualities so that they can try to "fix" the relationship for validation. I can certainly act like more of an adult, yes, and the start of that will be controlling my actions and reactions. I'm the only one who can do that, and she can choose to react the way that she deems appropriate as well. I will be the first to admit that I'm not perfect, and that I have some fault in this situation. It's a co-dependent relationship that I've allowed to go on for years. 
@wilson, I definitely won't leave the book laying around!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Hey Ursula, just checking in -- how did it go over the holidays with your mom?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Ursula I remember reading a story about a mother who told the doctor she was worried about her daughters.

She wanted the doctor to check up on them as she was worried that they weren't eating right, not dressing properly for the winter weather, etc.

The mom was in her 90s and the daughters were both in the 70s!


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@jlg07, it went alright. My sister was out for the holidays as well, so we were each other's buffers, and we got out and about for some sister time a couple times too, which was nice.
@MattMatt, I understand that my Mom comes from a place of love, but sometimes, it's over-the-top concern, and in all honesty, I don't want her to do herself more damage by her actions. She already has a heart condition.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

She isn't showing you respect, maybe b/c she doesn't realize it, or maybe b/c she doesn't think you deserve it. In either case, try educating her first, and deal with her if she doesn't take the hint.

Sometimes people don't realize their advice is unwanted, so start gently with something like "That isn't what I'm going to do" or "my mind is made up." If that doesn't work or it's something egregious, go to "I'm not going to argue with you" or "I don't want your advice".

You're probably thinking "She won't like that". Probably not, so what? Is your adulthood about enjoying your autonomy, or meeting her tyrannical expectations? 

I have relatives who miss the days when they had power over others they no longer have, and I think they are pathetic human beings. I will always look for them to come around and will respect them if/when they do.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Young at Heart said:


> First I didn't see a question.
> 
> One observation from an old guy is that family relationships are fun to watch. Lots and lots of family members when they get together for holidays, birthdays, etc. revert back to childhood relationships as all parties feel "safer and more comfortable in that role." As a spouse, it was fascinating to see my wife and her adult married brother transform before my eyes, when they entered their parents house. They effectively created a situation that brought about the "parent mode" in their parents.


I will point out that some family relationships are only fun to watch if you are a sadist, but I understand "fun to watch" is a pretty elastic phrase.

I do agree that many people will relapse to their group behavior when in that group. When I went to a HS reunion I saw people who had outgrown adolescence acting like adolescents b/c that was how they acted in that group. I didn't stay very long.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Hey @SpinyNorman, I'm not sure if she doesn't realize it or doesn't think I deserve it, but it's probably a combo of both of those. I remember growing up that privacy just wasn't a thing, for me or for them. I say that it wasn't a thing for them because they obviously didn't respect themselves or each other much because they would never shut their door when they had sex. I got up to shut it once though. She nosed her way into everything, from notes from friends to searching through my backpack to make sure I brought home everything. When I was in grade 9, I was picked on and harassed to the point that I was suicidal. My folks thought depression was stupid and could be handled by slapping a smile on and getting fresh air. So, I kept my depression to myself. It got so bad though that I needed an outlet, so I turned to writing poetry. She found it and read it, and I remember her comment: "kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?" I asked what she wondered about, and she said, "you". And that's as far as that went. Fast forward 20 years, and she was shocked to discover that her daughter was suicidal at one point. Seriously…?

I like your advice of saying something like "that isn't what I'm going to do", or "my mind is made up", and especially the latter of "I'm not going to argue with you". No, she won't like it, but I need to be me too, and I'd like to do that by keeping as much peace as possible. Recently I've stopped talking to her on a daily basis. There's no reason for it, and it had gotten to be something I HAD to do instead of something that I WANTED to do.

And, I agree with your point of watching family relationships initially brought up by @Young at Heart. I feel badly when I watch people who don't get along, and I feel sorry for them. I tend to not get my jollies out of it.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

Ursula said:


> Hey @SpinyNorman, I'm not sure if she doesn't realize it or doesn't think I deserve it, but it's probably a combo of both of those. I remember growing up that privacy just wasn't a thing, for me or for them. I say that it wasn't a thing for them because they obviously didn't respect themselves or each other much because they would never shut their door when they had sex. I got up to shut it once though. She nosed her way into everything, from notes from friends to searching through my backpack to make sure I brought home everything. When I was in grade 9, I was picked on and harassed to the point that I was suicidal. My folks thought depression was stupid and could be handled by slapping a smile on and getting fresh air. So, I kept my depression to myself. It got so bad though that I needed an outlet, so I turned to writing poetry. She found it and read it, and I remember her comment: "kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?" I asked what she wondered about, and she said, "you". And that's as far as that went. Fast forward 20 years, and she was shocked to discover that her daughter was suicidal at one point. Seriously…?
> 
> I like your advice of saying something like "that isn't what I'm going to do", or "my mind is made up", and especially the latter of "I'm not going to argue with you". No, she won't like it, but I need to be me too, and I'd like to do that by keeping as much peace as possible. Recently I've stopped talking to her on a daily basis. There's no reason for it, and it had gotten to be something I HAD to do instead of something that I WANTED to do.
> 
> And, I agree with your point of watching family relationships initially brought up by @Young at Heart. I feel badly when I watch people who don't get along, and I feel sorry for them. I tend to not get my jollies out of it.


I'm so sorry you went through that, but glad you came through. I don't know how old you are, but it wasn't that long ago that there was very little understanding of depression so maybe she just didn't know any better.

You didn't say if she respects your privacy as an adult. If not, I recommend starting w/ the assumption she doesn't realize she's doing it and try to educate. "That's kind of personal", or "I'd rather not say". If that doesn't get through, there's always "Do I ask you **** like that?" or "None of your business".

Let her know you won't play her games, and leave the door open for her to treat her like you treat others. If she doesn't come around, her loss. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

SpinyNorman said:


> I'm so sorry you went through that, but glad you came through. I don't know how old you are, but it wasn't that long ago that there was very little understanding of depression so maybe she just didn't know any better.
> 
> You didn't say if she respects your privacy as an adult. If not, I recommend starting w/ the assumption she doesn't realize she's doing it and try to educate. "That's kind of personal", or "I'd rather not say". If that doesn't get through, there's always "Do I ask you **** like that?" or "None of your business".
> 
> Let her know you won't play her games, and leave the door open for her to treat her like you treat others. If she doesn't come around, her loss. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.


Thank-you, and I'm glad that I came through it too! I'm 40 now, and went through that at about 15. I think they didn't understand a lot about depression back then, as I've noticed through the years that they're very closed off to learning/understanding new things or things that make them uncomfortable. They want things how they want things, and that's that. She respects my privacy more as an adult, but still pushes the boundaries a bit. If she does, I just tell her that I'd rather not talk about it; it's not her business; etc. I have the door open, but have definitely pulled back. The thing that makes me sad is that she refuses to see that she's a contributing person to the relationship, and that her words and actions carry weight. It's sad because that holds both of her daughters back from having a fantastic relationship with her.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

@Ursula You have posted about this so many times anyone can see this drives you nuts. I get where you're coming from because I have a similar mother in some ways. But when my mother starts trying to stick her nose where it doesn't belong I shut it down leaving no question that there is any space for discussion. It's just the way I am I don't suffer fools. My sisters on the other hand are like you and can't bring themselves to stand up to her. Their lives are deeply affected by her whims, if she wants them to spend their kids school vacations with her they do it, if she wants them to go to her house for a weekend and tell their kids they have to skip that thing with their friends or game or whatever they do it. Me she calls and says she wants everyone up at her house for the 4th of July and we already have plans, she hears sorry we have plans we're not going to be there Full Stop. 

You have to adopt this attitude, you don't have to argue about things you state your position and then ignore what happens after. If she argues about it you simply say I'm not going to argue about it, you don't justify why you don't have to explain yourself you become unwavering. 

This will be very hard for you I can tell from your posts about it. You need to take a prolonged break from her for a while. I know you're concerned this will worsen her heart condition but I think maybe you're a little codependent or something because you are inflicting this abuse on yourself by giving yourself reason to not be firm and unwavering. But this is also causing you a lot of stress soon you're going to be the one with a heart problem because of her. You need to think of her like a child, you tell her what bad behavior is and if she continues with that behavior there are consequences. And you follow through.

Quick real world example, We found out my son was allergic to nuts when he was just a toddler. We were very early in this and were in a very strict avoidance point. So before going to my mothers house for a family get together I told my mother just make sure she doesn;t put out any nuts, because a toddler will put anything in their mouth. My mother oddly responded by saying oh we can keep an eye on him etc. etc. I said yah but one of the other kids might eat some have pieces on their hands and there lies the danger, just don't put any out. Well we get there and she has 3 bowls on nuts out on the coffee table. I notice this as I'm taking my jacket off so I stop, put my jacket back on and take my kids by the hands give my wife the look and nod at the door and we leave. My mother chases me out the door asking why I'm leaving. I tell her we discussed the nut thing and theres three bowls of nuts on the table. She started trying to justify herself, I just said cut the bull**** I'm leaving, and then I got in my car and drove away. This is a woman whose own daughter, my sister spent probably a total of 2 months in the hospital when we were kids because she had a allergy to cashews and my mother refused to believe in the idea of cross contamination and argued with the doctors who tried to say if you have cashews out on tables and counters and they or their residue intermingles with food she is eating she could have a reaction, so I was risking it with my son knowing she just didn't like to be given restrictions. 

This is how I handle a mother with control issues, I let it be known very clearly she has no control when it comes to me or my family. She has learned her lesson and doesn't ever try that with me ever. My sisters complain to me all the time and they always have excuses why they can;t get tough with her, and I tell them what I am telling you. At this point it's your fault because you let her do this, it might take a big loud JUST SHUT THE **** UP in her face. Like literally it might take that, getting in her face and screaming shut the **** up. This is having too negative an affect on you for you to just put up with the over intrusive behavior over and over and over and over and over and over. 

It's hard, it's uncomfortable, it's awkward, but sometimes you have to get in touch with your inner a-hole and just do it. Then when your around her after and she starts up again and she starts again you say mom you're doing it again, and then she starts arguing and trying to justify and you get up and leave or hang up the phone, eventually she will learn and hopefully you can stop her behavior and enjoy being around her.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

@happyhusband0005, I get what you're saying and agree with you. I think they only thing I don't agree with you on is when you said that I'm inflicting this abuse on myself. There's no way on God's Green Earth that I would inflict abuse on myself. But yes, we have a very codependent relationship.

You make it sound easy as pie to just cut ties, and unfortunately, it's not that easy for me. My folks are aging, and I don't want to have regrets down the line of cutting contact or being a super ***** to them, and I'm guessing that your sisters feel along the same way. 

Do I need to put my foot down? Yes. Do I need to call her everyday? No. The latter has stopped, and you know what… When I do talk to her on the phone, I actually enjoy our conversations now. I hated them before. So, that's a start! And, for the record, I've done the screaming and yelling and telling her to butt the F out, and all it does is gets thrown in my face and I look like the bad guy, or the child throwing a temper tantrum. I don't want to look like that; I want to control my reactions, and keep calm.

Thank-you for your thoughts; there's a lot to chew on there, and chew, I will. I'm also in the middle of a book about daughters of narcissistic mothers, and am finding that to be really helpful. I'm sorry that I've posted so much about this. I thought it was only a handful of times, but by the sounds of it, it's been much more. I'll try to tame that!


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Ursula said:


> @happyhusband0005, I get what you're saying and agree with you. I think they only thing I don't agree with you on is when you said that I'm inflicting this abuse on myself. There's no way on God's Green Earth that I would inflict abuse on myself. But yes, we have a very codependent relationship.
> 
> You make it sound easy as pie to just cut ties, and unfortunately, it's not that easy for me. My folks are aging, and I don't want to have regrets down the line of cutting contact or being a super ***** to them, and I'm guessing that your sisters feel along the same way.
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from you do sound just like my sisters. It's about that hard boundary, I don't care about looking like I'm throwing a tantrum. The whole thing with the nuts and my son, I'm sure thats what it looked like, but she needed to learn don't F with me on this one. It took some time of me hammering her and staying away from her and making her apologize for things she did before she stopped but eventually she stopped. I think my mother is controlling but not a narcissist, if your mom is a true narcissist there really isn't much hope of things improving, but you will probably deal better in smaller doses which it sounds like you're doing. 

I think you're probably only posted about this a few times but it probably seems like more to me because it's a problem in my life I solved, so the posts really stick out to me. I didn't mean to make it sound like that much. 

It sounds like you're making slow progress and maybe that will work in the end. Maybe you just need to find a way to put up with it or ignore it and not let it bother you, like let her give her advice or whatever and then just do what you want. Thats the passive way and if you can manage it mentally without it bothering you it might work best for you. Me I'm a drop the hammer kind of guy I don't care if people think I'm the bad guy, they don't know everything else that goes on before that happens. 

And believe it or not at this point I have a very good relationship with my Mother she just doesn't pull any crap with me anymore. I had a minor setback when I took her with my wife and kids on a River cruise in Europe, then she wanted to go on all our vacations, sorry grandma not happening. 

The funny thing is my grandmother was exactly the same as my mother and my mother use to complain about her ALL the time. She even use to say if I ever get like her just put me in a home. Sometimes I think about leaving brochures for assisted living facilities on my sisters kitchen counters if we're all at their house for a family thing just to help them out a bit. LOL


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