# What if?



## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Ever wonder how many of these "waywards" didn't realize they were considered wayward and simply didn't come back because their spouse was treating them so badly after having the belief they were a cheater?

In other words:

Wife or Husband believes spouse is cheating

"ws" gets treated like crap

"ws" loses love and wants out

"bs" keeps pushing for answers

"bs" keeps asking for change

"ws" is clueless

"bs" doesn't explain since they want all the truth("bs" wants them to spill their guts in a manner or due to fear, just like using a lie detector test)

"bs" files for divorce in order to attempt reconciliation and this spilling of guts to find out the truth

"ws" says, thank you, I am ready Goody Bye!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Except, as in my case where I, as BS, was totally oblivious to her scurrilous and clandestine out-of-town cheating, and with my RSXW, as the unconscionable cheater, threw me onto the street then filed for divorce shortly thereafter, primarily to get me out of the picture and out of her life, where she could continue to perform her infidelity outside of my view or knowledge of it!*


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Ever wonder how many of these "waywards" didn't realize they were considered wayward and simply didn't come back because their spouse was treating them so badly after having the belief they were a cheater?
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...


If you mean "I wasn't cheating at all, their behavior forced me to leave" what if? These people aren't waywards,abused spouses IMO. False accusations and insecurity ruin relathionships all of the time. There is the occasional thread where this happens, but the numbers of "false waywards" appears low to me. The person should leave this type of relatiohship it is unealthy and abusive.

You said "these" so, it sounds like you mean on TAM.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If you mean "I wasn't cheating at all, their behavior forced me to leave" what if? These people aren't waywards,abused spouses IMO. False accusations and insecurity ruin relathionships all of the time. There is the occasional thread where this happens, but the numbers of "false waywards" appears low to me. The person should leave this type of relatiohship it is unealthy and abusive.
> 
> You said "these" so, it sounds like you mean on TAM.


Aside from alleged betrayers being abused by the allegations, often times there is some validity to the thinking of the almost betrayed spouse. For example, some people have no qualms at work going out for coffee or lunch alone with a member of the opposite sex. Or emailing/texting them. Or creating close friendships with them. For those people's spouses this is crossing a line, but the person doing so simply refuses to acknowledge it. Or, if a person is 'chasing' someone's spouse and that 'chasee' is doing nothing to stop it as they enjoy the attention, this too crosses a line in the eyes of that person's spouse. 

In other words, some people have very poor margins and boundaries and as a result it is potentially damaging to a marriage. 

A good example is my wife. She doesn't believe the term 'emotional affair'. She 54, very fit, cute and is sometimes hounded by men from the writing conferences she goes to. Due to a very abusive first marriage, she loves the attention and if they compliment her writing, can't get enough of it. She even agreed to go to a guy's house for a day as after showering her with compliments nonstop for a few weeks convinced her to come help set up some website. She told me and I put a stop to it. I also called the guy and laid down the law. So much as one more 'hello' and I'd be on his doorstep and he wouldn't like it. He backed off hard and my wife was pissed, but so what.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Interesting. I have no objections to myself or my wife having coffee or lunch alone with another person, texting, emailing etc as long as its not sexual. I would not stay married if I couldn't do those things. 






blazer prophet said:


> Aside from alleged betrayers being abused by the allegations, often times there is some validity to the thinking of the almost betrayed spouse. For example, some people have no qualms at work going out for coffee or lunch alone with a member of the opposite sex. Or emailing/texting them. Or creating close friendships with them. For those people's spouses this is crossing a line, but the person doing so simply refuses to acknowledge it. Or, if a person is 'chasing' someone's spouse and that 'chasee' is doing nothing to stop it as they enjoy the attention, this too crosses a line in the eyes of that person's spouse.
> 
> In other words, some people have very poor margins and boundaries and as a result it is potentially damaging to a marriage.
> 
> A good example is my wife. She doesn't believe the term 'emotional affair'. She 54, very fit, cute and is sometimes hounded by men from the writing conferences she goes to. Due to a very abusive first marriage, she loves the attention and if they compliment her writing, can't get enough of it. She even agreed to go to a guy's house for a day as after showering her with compliments nonstop for a few weeks convinced her to come help set up some website. She told me and I put a stop to it. I also called the guy and laid down the law. So much as one more 'hello' and I'd be on his doorstep and he wouldn't like it. He backed off hard and my wife was pissed, but so what.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

uhtred said:


> Interesting. I have no objections to myself or my wife having coffee or lunch alone with another person, texting, emailing etc as long as its not sexual. I would not stay married if I couldn't do those things.


And I get that. However, it's also how most, or a large share, betrayals begin...... One has to be very careful. It's a line so easy to cross. And I understand my wife has to get together with publishers, editors, conference speakers... who are men and I'm fine with that. She and a guy ran a weekend writing conference at the beach and they had to get together to go over things... No problems. But still, proper boundaries and good transparency need to exist.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

that is one most frustrating thing that i have found here, weeks and in some cases month of going back and forth with the BS, questioning themselves, their spouse, uncovering evidence and exposing them, confronting them and they never come back. they never tell you what happen, if they are okay, if they moved on...nothing only a small fraction ever return.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

What if the IS (Interested Spouse) determined that their spouse was Uninterested. 
-and the IS became cold, hurt frustrated with the supposedly US.
- and the US felt unloved and became more distant.
And while we are at it, What ifing, that is. What if cats were dogs and what if eggs were bacon and oh I suppose you could chase squirrels all day long but would it really matter?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

One of the things that I don't think many realize is that for the wayward, often those details that you are seeking just aren't there. I have been a wayward...like...multiple times. I can't tell someone how many times I had sex with one individual. I can't tell you where. I do remember the really wild and crazy stuff, but the regular stuff not so much. So when asked.....my story could indeed change. Not out of deception...simply because I wasn't committing it to memory. I was living in the moment. To me this is sad, for a lot of reasons, but I will stay on topic. For the BS each event is a huge deal. But to a wayward...it might have just been Tuesday. You don't really think about the gravity of anything until the crap hits the fan. When pushed for answers its quite possible that you may even blurt out things that are worse than what actually occurred. Sometimes when a wayward says they don't know....they really don't know. Also, honestly speaking asking a wayward for details is like shopping for pain. I wouldn't advise it. If someone has had an affair for months, just assume they have done everything. No point in having them hurt you more by giving specifics.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

ReformedHubby said:


> One of the things that I don't think many realize is that for the wayward, often those details that you are seeking just aren't there. I have been a wayward...like...multiple times. I can't tell someone how many times I had sex with one individual. I can't tell you where. I do remember the really wild and crazy stuff, but the regular stuff not so much. So when asked.....my story could indeed change. Not out of deception...simply because I wasn't committing it to memory. I was living in the moment. To me this is sad, for a lot of reasons, but I will stay on topic. For the BS each event is a huge deal. But to a wayward...it might have just been Tuesday. You don't really think about the gravity of anything until the crap hits the fan. When pushed for answers its quite possible that you may even blurt out things that are worse than what actually occurred. Sometimes when a wayward says they don't know....they really don't know. Also, honestly speaking asking a wayward for details is like shopping for pain. I wouldn't advise it. If someone has had an affair for months, just assume they have done everything. No point in having them hurt you more by giving specifics.


This is interesting. My D-Day was back in January, accidentally discovered my wife's car at a hotel via the new tech installed in that car as standard when purchased (actually hilarious because she HAD to have THAT car). So I eventually confronted her, she ended the affair (it supposedly began about Thanksgiving, Happy Holidays??) since then we are doing some reconciling, seems to be going ok actually, no miracles but little steps.
Anyway, I just recently made an observation that she doesn't seem to be very introspective...she admitted such, which I already was aware of. However, I took that one step further and said "You're not very intellectually curious are you?".
She has a degree in Physics and an advanced engineering degree, so clearly not unintelligent. She first took my question to be sort of insulting so I added that she is clearly intelligent, just not curious intellectually. After that clarification she said "No" and I was like, doesn't that bother you and she again said no, she just doesn't care about things that way.

That was a revelation. In terms of the affair and her reaction on being found out and reaction afterwards it puts things in perspective. In terms of problems in our relationship prior to this it also sort of does the same. It's not that she doesn't plan or think ahead; she does...but only in certain areas or in certain terms. I used to think that she simply doesn't look back because she doesn't care what she's wrought (even in some things before the affair). Now I don't think it's uncaring as much as she simply doesn't have the normal capacity to review her life. I think that also allows her to 'hold a grudge' more easily, but again I'm no longer sure it's a grudge as such. The effect is the same but I do wonder if it's not a grudge, which takes some effort to sustain, so much as a decision is made that 'this is the way things are now' and that is never reviewed internally despite outside entreaties or subsequent evidence to the contrary.

To me it's a very odd combination to have high intelligence but underdeveloped or non-existent introspection. I have no idea if it's simply a personality trait or if it's the result of something(s) that happened in her life. I do get a better idea of how to deal with her knowing this now. In the aftermath of the affair she told me that her goal in life is just to be happy, that's the most important thing. I countered with the idea of deeper joys or deep meaning and she said she doesn't care about that she just wants to be happy. I didn't really believe she meant that. She did. Her goal is simply to be happy.
In some ways that's fairly easy to deal with and manage. Shallow, yes but not that complicated. We have kids so it's sort of the same attitude in dealing with her, keep her happy enough and she's fine and that's not that difficult.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> If you mean "I wasn't cheating at all, their behavior forced me to leave" what if? These people aren't waywards,abused spouses IMO. False accusations and insecurity ruin relathionships all of the time. There is the occasional thread where this happens, but the numbers of "false waywards" appears low to me. The person should leave this type of relatiohship it is unealthy and abusive.
> 
> You said "these" so, it sounds like you mean on TAM.


No, I didn't mean on TAM, or only on TAM. I think TAM is skewed to some extent.

The rest yeah, I wondered how many divorces were caused by the spouse giving up after being 180'd for doing nothing wrong, just the other spouse believing they did.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Interesting. I have no objections to myself or my wife having coffee or lunch alone with another person, texting, emailing etc as long as its not sexual. I would not stay married if I couldn't do those things.


Probably a fairly healthy attitude in most cases. However in practice it may be a little easier for you to practice what you preach since you know your wife to be largely asexual.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

hptessla said:


> This is interesting. My D-Day was back in January, accidentally discovered my wife's car at a hotel via the new tech installed in that car as standard when purchased (actually hilarious because she HAD to have THAT car). So I eventually confronted her, she ended the affair (it supposedly began about Thanksgiving, Happy Holidays??) since then we are doing some reconciling, seems to be going ok actually, no miracles but little steps.
> Anyway, I just recently made an observation that she doesn't seem to be very introspective...she admitted such, which I already was aware of. However, I took that one step further and said "You're not very intellectually curious are you?".
> She has a degree in Physics and an advanced engineering degree, so clearly not unintelligent. She first took my question to be sort of insulting so I added that she is clearly intelligent, just not curious intellectually. After that clarification she said "No" and I was like, doesn't that bother you and she again said no, she just doesn't care about things that way.
> 
> ...


That's not odd at all. People who are so brilliant that they can get through most of life on brains alone may feel less need to develop other aspects of their life, including introspection. If you're already constantly praised for your brainpower, you have little impetus to use your thought in other ways.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Probably a fairly healthy attitude in most cases. However in practice it may be a little easier for you to practice what you preach since you know your wife to be largely asexual.


A fair point. OTOH, I felt that way before I knew about aseuality and was concerned that it was just *me* she didn't desire. OTOOH, I think I would not be as devastated by her cheating as it seems many other people are - to me its bad, but not horribly bad. Since it doesn't matter that much,, I don't feel as much need to be on guard against it.


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## .335487 (Dec 13, 2018)

Really depends on each person's definition of cheating. Whether or not it is acceptable to yourself. Acceptable to each other. If there isn't common ground there, the relationship isn't going to be an honest one. In other words, how much bull**** can you stomach.

My spouse insisted that her behavior was normal and acceptable. Lacking the context, in a different culture, I adjusted my expectations. That compromise cost me greatly. Had insisted that her she did not carry on an emotional affair. The fact that her lover asked her to leave and go to another country with him did not convey the closeness of their relationship. BULL****. She cheated and she knows it because she hid it.

I've taken a few years to adjust my expectations as a result. Coming to the understanding that the person I loved was figment of my imagination and delusions. I'm not sure why she begged to stay. I lost all trust and respect. She doesn't have a good character. I'm not saying my character is better, just that I would do better alone.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

hptessla said:


> This is interesting. My D-Day was back in January, accidentally discovered my wife's car at a hotel via the new tech installed in that car as standard when purchased (actually hilarious because she HAD to have THAT car). So I eventually confronted her, she ended the affair (it supposedly began about Thanksgiving, Happy Holidays??) since then we are doing some reconciling, seems to be going ok actually, no miracles but little steps.
> Anyway, I just recently made an observation that she doesn't seem to be very introspective...she admitted such, which I already was aware of. However, I took that one step further and said "You're not very intellectually curious are you?".
> She has a degree in Physics and an advanced engineering degree, so clearly not unintelligent. She first took my question to be sort of insulting so I added that she is clearly intelligent, just not curious intellectually. After that clarification she said "No" and I was like, doesn't that bother you and she again said no, she just doesn't care about things that way.
> 
> ...


*If you don't bother to set and exercise relationship boundaries, then regardless of one's educational level, they are just either lazy, or way too ensconced in being a primordial dumbass! *


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

hptessla said:


> This is interesting. My D-Day was back in January, accidentally discovered my wife's car at a hotel via the new tech installed in that car as standard when purchased (actually hilarious because she HAD to have THAT car). So I eventually confronted her, she ended the affair (it supposedly began about Thanksgiving, Happy Holidays??) since then we are doing some reconciling, seems to be going ok actually, no miracles but little steps.
> Anyway, I just recently made an observation that she doesn't seem to be very introspective...she admitted such, which I already was aware of. However, I took that one step further and said "You're not very intellectually curious are you?".
> She has a degree in Physics and an advanced engineering degree, so clearly not unintelligent. She first took my question to be sort of insulting so I added that she is clearly intelligent, just not curious intellectually. After that clarification she said "No" and I was like, doesn't that bother you and she again said no, she just doesn't care about things that way.
> 
> ...


Grudges are certainly born out of emotional pain and introspection is only necessary for those intelligent enough to consider their pain. I wonder if she got most things she wanted when she was a child and when she didn't, if she lashed out in some manner?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Parasite said:


> Really depends on each person's definition of cheating. Whether or not it is acceptable to yourself. Acceptable to each other. If there isn't common ground there, the relationship isn't going to be an honest one. In other words, how much bull**** can you stomach.
> 
> My spouse insisted that her behavior was normal and acceptable. Lacking the context, in a different culture, I adjusted my expectations. That compromise cost me greatly. Had insisted that her she did not carry on an emotional affair. The fact that her lover asked her to leave and go to another country with him did not convey the closeness of their relationship. BULL****. She cheated and she knows it because she hid it.
> 
> I've taken a few years to adjust my expectations as a result. Coming to the understanding that the person I loved was figment of my imagination and delusions. I'm not sure why she begged to stay. I lost all trust and respect. She doesn't have a good character. I'm not saying my character is better, just that I would do better alone.


Well, I did consider that every individual has a different definition of cheating. I was simply wondering how many delusional 'bs' there might be that ruined their marriage over stories of infidelity that hit too close to home. 

Your spouse did cheat by my personal definition and some cultures do not think cheating is as wrong as we do in the west. They believe sex is a normal and natural part of life, even marriage. Yes, you may laugh at that. What I am trying to convey is, sex is separate from marital intimacy. They believe, it seems, having sex with whomever you wish is healthy. It may well be, since we have a Christian start to this nation and hundreds or thousands of years of indoctrination. 

I don't believe it is wrong to dedicate your body to one person for life. I believe it is honorable. I simply do not believe all cultures, particularly those of another religious and cultural belief system, would understand our pain at simply the thought of a spouse engaging in intimate conversation, let alone physicality with someone outside the marital relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

blazer prophet said:


> Aside from alleged betrayers being abused by the allegations, often times there is some validity to the thinking of the almost betrayed spouse. For example, some people have no qualms at work going out for coffee or lunch alone with a member of the opposite sex. Or emailing/texting them. Or creating close friendships with them. For those people's spouses this is crossing a line, but the person doing so simply refuses to acknowledge it. Or, if a person is 'chasing' someone's spouse and that 'chasee' is doing nothing to stop it as they enjoy the attention, this too crosses a line in the eyes of that person's spouse.
> 
> In other words, some people have very poor margins and boundaries and as a result it is potentially damaging to a marriage.
> 
> A good example is my wife. She doesn't believe the term 'emotional affair'. She 54, very fit, cute and is sometimes hounded by men from the writing conferences she goes to. Due to a very abusive first marriage, she loves the attention and if they compliment her writing, can't get enough of it. She even agreed to go to a guy's house for a day as after showering her with compliments nonstop for a few weeks convinced her to come help set up some website. She told me and I put a stop to it. I also called the guy and laid down the law. So much as one more 'hello' and I'd be on his doorstep and he wouldn't like it. He backed off hard and my wife was pissed, but so what.


She still doesn't get it?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Sometimes a person assumes their spouse is having an affair, when they aren't.

My wife once asked me if I was having an affair. When I asked her why she thought this it was because: "We don't have sex any more."

When I pointed out that our lack of sex was because she had told me she no longer wanted sex she looked stunned and said: "Oh! Right. I thought you didn't fancy me anymore."


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I would suggest that rarely is there smoke without a fire. If a “BS” feels insecure enough to question the other spouse, then there’s usually a reason.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> She still doesn't get it?


Who doesn't get what?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

blazer prophet said:


> Who doesn't get what?


Your wife still doesn't get what is wrong with a guy chatting her up until she goes with him to his house, especially without knowing or inviting you.

You called a halt but she got pissed. That spells trouble if she can't comprehend the problem.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

ConanHub said:


> Your wife still doesn't get what is wrong with a guy chatting her up until she goes with him to his house, especially without knowing or inviting you.
> 
> You called a halt but she got pissed. That spells trouble if she can't comprehend the problem.


Don't get me started. You are spot on right. She is one of the directors of a large writing group (couple thousand members) and they have 1, 2 and 5 day conferences. She finds people to present at workshops or be the keynote speaker. All done by email. One guy she emailed and he refuses to discuss it aside from over "a long dinner". I said I didn't like the idea of a guy she has never met demanding a dinner to discuss something handled in 3 emails. He then started showering her with compliments (on his second email) and she was telling me he was just being nice. Well, a couple of the "compliments" were personal (she was so pretty, such a sweet little verb....). Led to a fight but I put my foot down. If you know him, then fine. But not a total stranger. So goes my life at times.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

aine said:


> I would suggest that rarely is there smoke without a fire. If a “BS” feels insecure enough to question the other spouse, then there’s usually a reason.


Generally, yes.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

No smoke, no fire, no spark, the ashes have almost washed away. And Yet I still wonder if someone happened along the way.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

aine said:


> I would suggest that rarely is there smoke without a fire. If a “BS” feels insecure enough to question the other spouse, then there’s usually a reason.


Not to be too hard on you in particular, but it never ceases to amaze me how people make statements like this in the complete absence of actual data.

Maybe 98% of spouses ask this question at least once in a long term marriage during a rough spell. I have no idea.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> That's not odd at all. People who are so brilliant that they can get through most of life on brains alone may feel less need to develop other aspects of their life, including introspection. If you're already constantly praised for your brainpower, you have little impetus to use your thought in other ways.


 Oh, I didn't say she's brilliant. Brilliant wouldn't have been caught 

Like many, many engineers she is good at math. I have two brothers that are engineers and many engineer friends. A lot of the emails from them are written at about a 6th grade level; language/spelling are not such strong points. I will say that for the most part they are intellectually curious. My wife's just not and that's what I find odd; the lack of introspection isn't that unusual across the population in general.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Sometimes a person assumes their spouse is having an affair, when they aren't.
> 
> My wife once asked me if I was having an affair. When I asked her why she thought this it was because: "We don't have sex any more."
> 
> When I pointed out that our lack of sex was because she had told me she no longer wanted sex she looked stunned and said: "Oh! Right. I thought you didn't fancy me anymore."


Have you ever required anything of her to remain married to you?

I would require frequent and satisfying sex, among other things, to remain married to me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It is not frequent. But when it happens it is very spectacular!


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

2ntnuf said:


> Grudges are certainly born out of emotional pain and introspection is only necessary for those intelligent enough to consider their pain. I wonder if she got most things she wanted when she was a child and when she didn't, if she lashed out in some manner?


That's another good question. In her version she didn't get most things she wanted...however, grandma's coddling of the grandchildren tells a different story. According to my wife they didn't have much money when she was growing up. However, I grew up a child of Depression Era parents and my wife does not exhibit characteristics of someone who appreciates the scarcity of material goods.
Also, grandma does most anything to avoid confrontation. Some other odd things, my wife almost never thanks her parents or goes out of her way in any way to make it easier if her parents drive the 2 hours to watch the kids if we want to do an overnight somewhere. If we drive them up to the grandparents she will often try to get them to drive halfway and meet. With strangers or co-workers she will easily say thank you, with her parents not so much and her mother will trip over herself to make things easier on her.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

hptessla said:


> That's another good question. In her version she didn't get most things she wanted...however, grandma's coddling of the grandchildren tells a different story. According to my wife they didn't have much money when she was growing up. However, I grew up a child of Depression Era parents and my wife does not exhibit characteristics of someone who appreciates the scarcity of material goods.
> Also, grandma does most anything to avoid confrontation. Some other odd things, my wife almost never thanks her parents or goes out of her way in any way to make it easier if her parents drive the 2 hours to watch the kids if we want to do an overnight somewhere. If we drive them up to the grandparents she will often try to get them to drive halfway and meet. With strangers or co-workers she will easily say thank you, with her parents not so much and her mother will trip over herself to make things easier on her.


Might be a good topic of discussion. My parents lived through the depression era and valued most things. Everything they could use got used. They tried to fix things that were broken instead of buying new. I get that. I didn't have a great deal of things either, but I had what I needed. Sounds like it was different for your wife than it was for you. That leads to misunderstandings and tension.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

2ntnuf said:


> Might be a good topic of discussion. My parents lived through the depression era and valued most things. Everything they could use got used. They tried to fix things that were broken instead of buying new. I get that. I didn't have a great deal of things either, but I had what I needed. Sounds like it was different for your wife than it was for you. That leads to misunderstandings and tension.


It might be, but how to broach the subject... 

I do know that she and her siblings (brothers) have some issues with her father. I get along well with him actually but they would all agree that he wasn't very involved. Which I can see because he's the absent minded professor type, but at the same time he did coach their teams and things so not completely disengaged. He did grow up with parents who never kept track of him or his brother and didn't seem very involved. I think that was his attitude toward his kids growing up but from what I know of him and what I hear from wife and siblings it doesn't seem like he was resentful of them or anything. I also notice that her mother and her mother's sisters put more emphasis on their daughters than on the sons and the mother and sisters will go on about their father treating them as secondary to the boys...though they all catered to him and spent time with him in the 12 years I witnessed.

Who knows, I have 6 siblings and three of them will tell one story about my parents and the other siblings than the other three...yet we all grew up together. I can't wait until my kids are grown, I feel like I can already predict their opinions, lol.


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