# Yeah ... So Let's Talk About Marriage



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hello Dear TAM Friends! It's me! Your sometimes moderator, always charming, questionably wise, Deejo.

I've been around these parts a long time. I cannot possibly convey how much I have learned and observed from others participating here. So, as a member of the community for over a decade at this point, feel like it's only fair that I disclose some more fat to chew on.

On Saturday, August 29th, my marriage of just over 2 years fell victim to Walk Away Wife Syndrome. Spouse was staying at family's new house with her daughter. She called me and informed me that she would be moving out the following day, and there would be a moving truck at our home between 8 and 10 am.

My only response to her declaration? "Okay. Do me a favor and let me know once you're done. I'll be out."

What precipitated this huge rift? Couldn't tell you. Honestly. What responsibilities were mine in contributing to the issues? Again, don't know. And that's not a cop out. I can say that we had 2 'fights' in the preceding 3 weeks. Both effectively precipitated by her. One regarding my desire to take up sport shooting, which would entail becoming a firearm owner. She was adamant that she did not want a gun in the house, despite my assurances of security. I pointed out that I had consistently supported the activities that she wanted to pursue; primarily joining and fronting a cover band. Knew she always wanted to do it. Knew it was important to her. Got to go to bars and watch drunks line up to strike up conversations with her between sets. Knew all of that would be par for the course, and of course was confident in the solidarity of our relationship. None of those idiots stood a chance with her. But ... at times frustrating as well. Only one incident where I was watching and letting her handle it, as some guy continued to creep up on her personal space. She looked over, saw my face and my start to approach, and she immediately spun around and walked away from the chump. So yeah ... support.

The second revolved around sex. She is post menopausal. Libido absolutely cratered. We continued to be intimate because she deemed it was important ... but that started to eventually drop off as well. She told me that she always remembered something I had said to her at the beginning of our relationship, when of course we couldn't keep our hands off one another. We talked about sexless marriages, and that I had been in one, and had no intention of ever being in a sexless relationship again. What stood out to her was when I commented that in general, 'when a woman doesn't want to have sex, it isn't that she doesn't want to have sex, it's that she doesn't want to have sex with you (meaning her male partner). So, she felt compelled to state that quite to the contrary, she just didn't want to have sex ... with anyone. She followed that up with, "I don't care if I ever have sex again. I'm fine with maybe once a month. I just don't need that. Frankly I don't need any of that romantic stuff at all." The way she said it, was like she was annoyed. So ... I calmly responded with what I call the MEM Clause. I said calmly with no agitation,"That's fine. I love you. I believe you love me. I value our marriage and the relationship we have. The house, the kids, that's all important stuff. I'll just get those needs met elsewhere."

At which point she flipped. Of course. Thats the purpose of the exercise.
She had also become very anxious with her business, which was shuttered for months as a result of the pandemic, and would pretty consistently highlight to me, her need for 'space' and 'alone time'. She was extraordinarily distracted at almost all times. She would indicate that us being together all of the time was "too much". She does suffer from clinical depression and takes medication regularly. It was well managed. She also suffered sexual trauma at the hands of a family member for a span of 3 years when she was young. Married 3 times previously. I was/am husband #4. Everybody has baggage, I was prepared to deal, we never had much issue talking about or addressing ours.

Up to this point, you could count the number of disagreements or arguments we have had over the course of our six year relationship on one hand. She made it apparent that she was not happy over the ensuing days and suggested counseling, because, her words, "to have a successful marriage, obviously you have to work at it." Turns out that phrase wasn't intended for me, but for herself. So ... I found a therapist, and made an appointment. The appointment was a month out given the lockdown/distancing circumstances. Suffice to say, we never made it to the appointment.

Recognize that the natural inclination in these parts will be that there is someone else. Most of you know that I am no babe in the woods on that front. I sincerely don't believe there is. She wasn't going out. She was rarely if ever on her phone, and I of course verified that by looking at the phone records, all of which are under my account. She wouldn't even think about having using a burner. She loses her primary phone enough as it is.

So what do I ultimately think led to the downfall of our seemingly solid bond up to even just several months ago?
She got bored. I don't say that cynically or accusatorily. I simply believe that there are LOTS of people not cut out for marriage ... and I married one. I flat out honestly believe that she had likely been fighting against her nature likely over the last year telling her that her life would be far less encumbered and complex, were she not burdened by all of the constraints that are a simple fact of being married, or partnered over the long term.
Also confirmed with her that ours is the longest relationship she has EVER been in. None of her previous marriages lasted much over a year. In my own over-confidence or arrogance depending upon how you look at it, I simply presumed that she had tried to make the best of bad choices in partners previously. And of course, I believed it would be different with me.

It was. For a little while.

No doubt, the reasons she chose to completely blow apart her marriage are justified and make absolute sense to her ... and to her alone. I have been caught at every moment since trying to address peoples questions of "What happened?" To be honest, I haven't wasted a lot of time thinking about it. I really haven't. What I did consider was the fact that she had taken the time to find a new place, enroll her daughter at a new school, all while externally, continuing to play happy family (which we were) with myself and my kids. I found these lies of omission to be stunning. We had seemingly moved past (in my mind) the incidents highlighted above, and had even gone on a dinner date and had a great time. But through all of that ... she already knew she was out.

So consequently, I haven't wasted a lot of emotional energy on pondering the how's, why's, or what if's. Am I an emotional wreck? No. I'm a pretty practical dude at this point. We have been no contact save for some touch points surrounding the kids. No questions, no pleading. I did inform her that after the end of this month, we will need to have a discussion about respectfully dissolving the marriage. Given her behavior, I have no desire to reconcile. Nor do I believe does she ... given that she signed a 1 year lease on her rental.

Sorry for the wall of text, if you've hung in there. But ... I know the boards, and simply got wordy to address any potential thoughts, or questions.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Wow. I'm shocked. And I'm so sorry.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WOW!

Sorry and ugh are about all that comes to mind immediately....

She really does need a warning label now doesn't she?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Wow. You've handled that well. Easier said than done of course, there are a million things so I'm not minimizing the happening. 

Keep on going.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Yup. I get a lot of 'Wow's' whenever I've had to spill the beans to family or friends. Everyone is shocked. As was I.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Deejo 

I have known you for forever, and I am sad that your marriage is ending like this...but at the same time I'm glad that you are seeing it realistically and clearly. It's too bad she is a person who isn't capable of a long-term, intimate relationship, but it certainly does look like that's the case. 

Regarding the firearm, first I'll just say that I am a shooter myself and enjoy it both as a sport and as an exercise of my second amendment rights. But I do understand people who are hesitant to have a gun in the house and overall think that two mature adults could reach some agreement that was mutually acceptable. 

Regarding the reduction of libido/lack of sex, well you made it clear from the beginning you would not be in a sexless relationship. Now, I'm a "woman of a certain age" and I can attest that "horniness" changes with perimenopause and menopause--but to my mind, the desire to be close, to be intimate, to be connected with another does not. I mean, yeah, the urge and itch isn't as demanding, but the wish to be deeply and closely connected on all levels? That doesn't go away ever!

So I am sorry that you are discovering this after two years, but I'm proud of you for the way you're handling it. This has little or nothing to do with you and is 100% her and her issues that she hasn't faced. You are collateral damage. Nonetheless, it is still a loss and it still hurts, and for that, I am truly sorry.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

ConanHub said:


> WOW!
> 
> Sorry and ugh are about all that comes to mind immediately....
> 
> She really does need a warning label now doesn't she?


You know Conan, at the end of the day, deep down I always knew this was potentially in the cards given her history. But ... I certainly thought I'd see it coming and that we would be able to mitigate. At least that would have been my intention. I couldn't have imagined that hers was 'Get out, quick, and quiet.'

Honestly, just the degree of how utterly bizarre this played out has contributed to my ability to not feel compelled to fix, address, or define any of it. I'm sure she has her narrative for her friends and family of why she needed to do this, I just can't imagine what it is; unless it is as simple as the likely truth - she just couldn't handle it.

Frankly part of me feels sad for her. I'm sure everybody knows someone who will go on and on about how they want love, passion, and commitment in a long term relationship. But the simple reality is that they are also incapable of pulling it off.

If I find out that in fact I was an absolute and complete sucker, and that there is someone else, I'll certainly disclose that too. And if there is, I really need to reevaluate my instincts or her capacity for duplicity. But again, no intention on my part to waste a lot of energy trying to figure that out. Infidelity on her part was never a factor in her previous marriages. I always teased that disclosure out while just in the dating process, and she was no exception.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Affaircare said:


> @Deejo
> 
> I have known you for forever, and I am sad that your marriage is ending like this...but at the same time I'm glad that you are seeing it realistically and clearly. It's too bad she is a person who isn't capable of a long-term, intimate relationship, but it certainly does look like that's the case.
> 
> ...


You know AC, at the time she brought up the sex bit, and I actually hope to explore this on the board; we had already NOT been intimate for about 2 months, and I was fine with it. She was doing hormone replacement, and had experienced vaginal soreness, without us having any kind of sex. I hadn't given so much as a whiff of a complaint. I was fine. But ... I believe the fact that we hadn't had sex for some time was weighing on HER. She felt guilty, or anxious, or whatever ... and it manifested as resentment against me, despite the fact that I was not complaining about frequency. It was odd, and given that this has now happened to me twice ... really has me wondering if this happens in other relationships, or I'm doing something really, really wrong.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> You know Conan, at the end of the day, deep down I always knew this was potentially in the cards given her history. But ... I certainly thought I'd see it coming and that we would be able to mitigate. At least that would have been my intention. I couldn't have imagined that hers was 'Get out, quick, and quiet.'
> 
> Honestly, just the degree of how utterly bizarre this played out has contributed to my ability to not feel compelled to fix, address, or define any of it. I'm sure she has her narrative for her friends and family of why she needed to do this, I just can't imagine what it is; unless it is as simple as the likely truth - she just couldn't handle it.
> 
> ...


I concur with your assessment about infidelity.

Nothing surprises me much anymore but her pattern is simply that of an inability to grow in a LTR.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

What has happened to you twice? Wives leaving the marriages?



Deejo said:


> It was odd, and given that this has now happened to me twice ... really has me wondering if this happens in other relationships, or I'm doing something really, really wrong.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Wow, Deejo. Just, wow. You are #4? Holy cow batman, lots of baggage right there.

I understand the MEM clause... never had to use it, don't know if I could go that route. I agree, in your spot, it's clear you need to cut to the quick. Unilateral decisions involving a poor outcome for the other party can't be negotiable.

Best


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am sorry deejo, but you did say you dont know why it is happening and then proceed to tell us why. 
The two things that struck me immediately were 1) your threats to cheat, very wrong and not cool, and 2) wanting to shoot for sport. I am not sure if thats shooting targets or animals but if its the later then I couldnt live with a man who did that, and there is no way that I would agree to have a gun in the house either. Thats just me, and yet you didnt listen to her when she expressed those concerns.
Having said that ,she clearly has her own issues as well, not wanting sex was not easy for you, but from what you said you are not blame free. Maybe you just were never suited. Marrying someone who has already been married 3 times and none of them lasting more than a year was a MASSIVE risk, statistically the marriage had almost no chance of working. I have no idea why you thought it was a good idea, it was actually inevitable going by her past history.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

The only thing I thought about with another person in her life, if she played in a band, she may have met someone through THAT path (although with Covid shutdowns, probably has NOT been playing out since March, no?)
Very sorry that you had this happen.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

minimalME said:


> What has happened to you twice? Wives leaving the marriages?


Hey MM, both of my spouses went cold on sex. I've posted a lot previously, my first wife developed a full blown aversion to me. She would get anxious presuming I was going to pursue sex if I so much as reached out to hold her hand.

Wife2 never had any hang ups about sex at all. Things changed after menopause ... which I fully accepted and understood. Did we need to be intimate 3x a week? No. Was I going to be ok with being intimate bi-monthly? Nope. But I never hounded her over this. We had discussed it a few times, and I believe by virtue of those discussions she knew it was important to me, but really didn't want what I wanted, felt anxious and guilty about that fact, and turned it on me.

All supposition on my part of course. I'm open to other interpretations.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jlg07 said:


> The only thing I thought about with another person in her life, if she played in a band, she may have met someone through THAT path (although with Covid shutdowns, probably has NOT been playing out since March, no?)
> Very sorry that you had this happen.


Last gig was in late February, and there were literally about 7 people in the bar. So yeah, band pulled the plug at that time. She misses it. Definitely was an outlet for her no doubt. But I was at most of the gigs, and she has otherwise always been respectful in her dealings with her admirers, or would smile and throw her arms around me and give me a kiss when I'd approach to clearly send the signal she wasn't available.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

What's funny, not haha funny mind you, is Mrs. Conan and I have a fiery relationship with heated arguments too numerous to count. We also make each other laugh really hard and are passionate and affectionate every day.

Maybe her lack of ability to have a confrontation and work through issues contributed?

Easier for her to run away than work through unpleasant disagreements?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

She must be super hot. 😂


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Picture's in my profile.

For now ...


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I see 'albums' and 'media', but no images show up.



Deejo said:


> Picture's in my profile.
> 
> For now ...


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Fixed.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

She is attractive - and age appropriate. 😉


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Deejo, I'm very sorry to hear this. You sound like you're in a good place, but i know the loss will still be felt.

There are others out there who will be a better match for you. And having been married prior doesn't necessarily mean one isn't a good prospect, but they should demonstrate that they have done some deep introspection.

If i decide to marry again it will be #3, but i can also discuss in detail what the issues in the first two were and my part in both as well as why I don't think I'd make a lot of those mistakes at this point. Look for this in the future.

In the mean time take good care of yourself.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Sorry to hear this, Deejo.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Sorry to hear about your marriage. Is the little girl in the picture your daughter? If so, what does your wife think is going to happen with her since she seems to be quite young? And what do you want to happen? Was/is she a good mother?


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## hinterdir (Apr 17, 2018)

Deejo said:


> Hello Dear TAM Friends! It's me! Your sometimes moderator, always charming, questionably wise, Deejo.
> 
> I've been around these parts a long time. I cannot possibly convey how much I have learned and observed from others participating here. So, as a member of the community for over a decade at this point, feel like it's only fair that I disclose some more fat to chew on.
> 
> ...


Sorry dude. 
Sounds like you do not have kids together, right?
This was a short marriage a year or two. 
For those facts it sounds like the separating of your assets and such with be smoother. 
Sorry you have to deal with this but it sounds like she isn't going to be fun to be married to anyway so maybe she is doing you a favor. 
No sex, or I have no interest in sex at all but I'll throw you a bone once a month so...enjoy sounds like you were in for a bunch of headache. 

I have no opinions as to why. Maybe she has issues. 
Maybe she really feels that strongly about a gun in the home.....if there is a gun then she is gone. Maybe she is so upset you said you'd go outside the marriage to handle your needs if she won't was too much for her. Who knows. 

She is an asshole to not at least communicate what is up with her instead of just pulling "well I am moving out....bye"
If she isn't going to at least tell you why then she is an asshole and would you even want to be with someone like that?

I wish you healing and joyous times down the road.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I'm sorry to hear this. There are a few points of similarity to my own story.

You kind of "buried the lead" with this:


Deejo said:


> She also suffered sexual trauma at the hands of a family member for a span of 3 years when she was young. Married 3 times previously. I was/am husband #4.


Forget about the band and the owning a firearm. The above is the big ticket item.



Deejo said:


> So what do I ultimately think led to the downfall of our seemingly solid bond up to even just several months ago?
> She got bored. I don't say that cynically or accusatorily. I simply believe that there are LOTS of people not cut out for marriage ... and I married one. I flat out honestly believe that she had likely been fighting against her nature likely over the last year telling her that her life would be far less encumbered and complex, were she not burdened by all of the constraints that are a simple fact of being married, or partnered over the long term.


Yeah, I think that is a very perspicacious assessment. I believe I also married someone not cut out for marriage, perhaps for similar reasons.

Not having a lot of arguments can be a warning sign of this.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

I think you identified the problem. I mean you could look at it like she liked you enough to give it a shot. Some folks have wanderlust and shouldn't be married. This women seems to be one of them. Unfortunately.

Looking at the pictures I think you were well matched so I don't think it has anything to do with that. 

Sorry dude.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Deejo said:


> So consequently, I haven't wasted a lot of emotional energy on pondering the how's, why's, or what if's. Am I an emotional wreck? No. I'm a pretty practical dude at this point. We have been no contact save for some touch points surrounding the kids. No questions, no pleading. I did inform her that after the end of this month, we will need to have a discussion about respectfully dissolving the marriage. Given her behavior, I have no desire to reconcile. Nor do I believe does she ... given that she signed a 1 year lease on her rental.



Sorry to hear this Deejo.
You're less than a month out--is it possible you're still in something of a state of shock? Being caught flat-footed like that, don't be surprised if the emotional avalanche takes a while to catch up.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I’m sorry. I remember you mentioned previously that you were her fourth husband and I saw a red flag because I turned down a proposal from someone who had been married three times. 

Boredom is likely part of it but I think those people are just in general unsuited to marriage. CSA obviously complicates that. Again, I’m sorry.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Deejo said:


> she would indicate that us being together all of the time was "too much". *She does suffer from clinical depression and takes medication regularly*. It was well managed. *She also suffered sexual trauma at the hands of a family member for a span of 3 years when she was young. Married 3 times previously. I was/am husband #4*. Everybody has baggage, I was prepared to deal, we never had much issue talking about or addressing ours.


This. You were doomed form the beginning in this marriage.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Rob_1 said:


> This. You were doomed form the beginning in this marriage.


Agree, that was a huge red flag!
At your age, you should have found someone stable!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Diana7 said:


> I am sorry deejo, but you did say you dont know why it is happening and then proceed to tell us why.
> The two things that struck me immediately were 1) your threats to cheat, very wrong and not cool, and 2) wanting to shoot for sport. I am not sure if thats shooting targets or animals but if its the later then I couldnt live with a man who did that, and there is no way that I would agree to have a gun in the house either. Thats just me, and yet you didnt listen to her when she expressed those concerns.
> Having said that ,she clearly has her own issues as well, not wanting sex was not easy for you, but from what you said you are not blame free. Maybe you just were never suited. Marrying someone who has already been married 3 times and none of them lasting more than a year was a MASSIVE risk, statistically the marriage had almost no chance of working. I have no idea why you thought it was a good idea, it was actually inevitable going by her past history.


Can't really argue with anything you pointed out, Diana. I certainly don't argue that the comment I made was hurtful. But after my spouse just telling me she had no interest in being romantic, or sexual going forward in our relationship, I didn't much mind pointing out her hyperbole with hyperbole of my own. I'm a big believer in pay attention to what people do, not always what they say. I wouldn't cheat on my wife. I've never, ever, demonstrated any behavior to the contrary. 

I suspect she chose to pick these fights as a means to justify the decision she was already leaning towards. Any one that wanted to remain engaged, would have acknowledged that both parties said things they shouldn't have, and worked it out.

Oh, and as for my interest in firearms; range hobbyist only. I don't have the patience for hunting.

I proposed because after 4 years, we had already been through plenty, including a bout with a serious cancer on her part. I loved her. Deeply. She was worthwhile to me. Take this aberrant behavior out of the equation and we generally just looked like a middle aged married couple who actually really enjoyed each others company. Right up until the pandemic dust-up.

Appreciate your input.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Rob_1 said:


> This. You were doomed form the beginning in this marriage.


You know, I've posted previously about the tremendously dismaying number of women out there who have sexual abuse in their past but either don't disclose it, or do so only to a select few. During my dating phase, I come across as a pretty genuine guy, and I'm always for going into the weeds on emotional subjects. I had several women I was involved with disclose to me that they were either raped, or molested ... and I was the first person they told. As the father of a young woman, I find that both infuriating, and unacceptable. I don't want my daughter to ever have to deal with those circumstances, or any woman for that matter. In the case with my wife, I didn't have this information until we had been together for well over a year. And at that point, I wasn't going to cut and run on the disclosure. But, no doubt there are a lot of factors playing into why what happened, happened.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey folks, really appreciate the input. See lots of the same kind of statements/questions, so please don't be offended if I don't respond directly to your post. I'll do my best.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Fozzy said:


> Sorry to hear this Deejo.
> You're less than a month out--is it possible you're still in something of a state of shock? Being caught flat-footed like that, don't be surprised if the emotional avalanche takes a while to catch up.


Entirely possible Foz. I definitely feel disappointed. Some anger. Some sympathy. And certainly clarity on the situation that there is no 'going back'. All is quiet right now, and I sincerely hope that we can part ways respectfully without her trying to gut me financially. And if I do get hit by the heartbreak bus, I've got a full bottle of Basil Hayden Bourbon in case of emergency.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

sokillme said:


> I think you identified the problem. I mean you could look at it like she liked you enough to give it a shot. Some folks have wanderlust and shouldn't be married. This women seems to be one of them. Unfortunately.
> 
> Looking at the pictures I think you were well matched so I don't think it has anything to do with that.
> 
> Sorry dude.


Thanks man. The restaurant pic is from just this past February. Her 50th. No signs of trouble.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> ... And if I do get hit by the heartbreak bus, I've got a full bottle of Basil Hayden Bourbon in case of emergency.


All ya need is a box set of Merle and you're ready for the end of the world


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

I was given a bit more hope or was led on a little longer. When my ex told me she was leaving, at first she said some things like needing space to clear her head and still thinking I was a good guy that hadn't really done anything wrong, etc. Then:



> Given her behavior, I have no desire to reconcile. Nor do I believe does she ... given that she signed a 1 year lease on her rental.


she signed a one year lease on the apartment she moved in to directly from the marriage home. I also didn't feel much more than tired. I was never going to approach her about reconciliation but I think I would have entertained it if she'd approached me and explained how her perspective had changed but that was and is never going to happen.

Good luck.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

I'm very sorry your marriage is ending @Deejo however I'm not sorry you took the chance. It may not be what most consider a long term success but I hope you focus on the years of happy memories you two shared. 

We don't know what the future holds but I'm almost certain, based on your attitude, you'll make more happy memories. It just won't be with her.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> Deejo, I'm very sorry to hear this. You sound like you're in a good place, but i know the loss will still be felt.
> 
> There are others out there who will be a better match for you. And having been married prior doesn't necessarily mean one isn't a good prospect, but they should demonstrate that they have done some deep introspection.
> 
> ...


Thanks @lifeistooshort, it can certainly be difficult to discern the what's and how's of a marriage coming undone. My first marriage? Totally get it. Saw it coming a mile away. We tried to course correct a number of times. I held out hope far, far, longer than I should have. This time around? Blindsided. Dumbfounded. Yet, seeing it all and dealing with it from a very different perspective. A healthier one, I like to think. I've written a number of times in the past, "Don't fight for someone who isn't willing to fight for you." Don't regret the relationship, or the marriage for that matter. I absolutely do not like that her choice alienates our kids, who had a fantastic dynamic as siblings.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Deejo said:


> You know, I've posted previously about the tremendously dismaying number of women out there who have sexual abuse in their past but either don't disclose it, or do so only to a select few. During my dating phase, I come across as a pretty genuine guy, and I'm always for going into the weeds on emotional subjects. I had several women I was involved with disclose to me that they were either raped, or molested ... and I was the first person they told. As the father of a young woman, I find that both infuriating, and unacceptable. I don't want my daughter to ever have to deal with those circumstances, or any woman for that matter. *In the case with my wife, I didn't have this information until we had been together for well over a year. And at that point, I wasn't going to cut and run on the disclosure. But, no doubt there are a lot of factors playing into why what happened, happened.*


Yes, I understand your point of view, but, regardless of whether you did know or not, or found out later on, the outcome would have been the same. This is the same outcome over and over, all over the world in these type of cases.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Entirely possible Foz. I definitely feel disappointed. Some anger. Some sympathy. And certainly clarity on the situation that there is no 'going back'. All is quiet right now, and I sincerely hope that we can part ways respectfully without her trying to gut me financially. And if I do get hit by the heartbreak bus, I've got a full bottle of Basil Hayden Bourbon in case of emergency.


...and the support of TAM.

I’ll join those who are shocked and saddened for you. But I am reassured by knowing that you will keep keepin on. Take good care of yourself.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Deejo said:


> Can't really argue with anything you pointed out, Diana. I certainly don't argue that the comment I made was hurtful. But after my spouse just telling me she had no interest in being romantic, or sexual going forward in our relationship, I didn't much mind pointing out her hyperbole with hyperbole of my own. I'm a big believer in pay attention to what people do, not always what they say. I wouldn't cheat on my wife. I've never, ever, demonstrated any behavior to the contrary.


Yes, it was kind of a nuclear option as statements and replies to such are... it's hard to undo a detonation.




Deejo said:


> I suspect she chose to pick these fights as a means to justify the decision she was already leaning towards. Any one that wanted to remain engaged, would have acknowledged that both parties said things they shouldn't have, and worked it out.


Selective fights are often with the purpose to convince the issuer that the edge is not so bad... one might even survive the fall as history may often build the next chapter of the story.

Still, it hurts as you let go well... peace be with you on your journey.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay more importantly Deejo what is your first purchase of weapon for sport shooting?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

that's a "wow' story. I am so sorry. doesn't look like she is cut for marriage.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I wish I had some form of advice to add, @Deejo, beyond my sympathies for the demise of your marriage.

The Mem statement has an uncanny way of getting to the bottom the marital problems, whether it be related to sex or other issues. 

That said, I can't quite follow posters who thought that your wife was okay to declare sex with you would be reduced to a trickle, yet excoriated you for the Mem statement... especially since you were very clear in your premarital discussions.

If someone wants to be irreplaceable, they must focus on actually BEING irreplaceable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Stumbled across this and opened it because I saw it was you, Deejo. You and Amplexor were the single greatest helpers to my situation back in 2011-2012 and I will always be grateful. Hard to believe that was before you even MET this wife of yours.

Sorry you have to deal with this mess. But you are uniquely able to handle it.

Cheers.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I’ve thought about this, and from a softer perspective @Deejo you had a butterfly in your life for a few years. Similarly to your sentiment, I’m speculating that your beautiful wife hasn’t equipped herself with the love and tenacity needed for long-term commitment. Those previously learned mechanisms to cut and run, or to fly ‘free’, are deeply engrained. On top of that, she no longer had the output of being centre-stage, challenges with work, lock down, and with some different view points and priorities between you...that no doubt combined with the patterns to flutter away quickly and self-protectively.

It sounds to me that you each took the chance with one another, while knowing the limitations of yourselves, and to an extent, of each other. Perhaps the various factors brought things to a head for her a little sooner than in typical times (when counseling could have been undertaken first, for example), yet maybe in a way, it’s better to pull it now than after years more invested.

Don’t get me wrong, I still think it sucks, and I don’t respect the way she pulled the pin so efficiently... yet here it is.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Strangely, after I typed the above, sitting in an outdoor area but with the ‘shutters’ down, I heard a fluttering. A bird had gotten in and proceeded to fly into the shutters in attempt to escape, seemingly getting panicked. I opened it up so it was able to fly away but by then it was sitting in a corner, back turned protectively towards me. Figuring it can understand English, I gently spoke to it and encouraged movement... it turned and quickly flew away through the opening.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Deejo said:


> Thanks man. The restaurant pic is from just this past February. Her 50th. No signs of trouble.


Thanks for the context, giving her age. From the photo, the young kid, I was wondering if she might have been younger than that and going through menopause at a really unexpected time of her life, combined with the pandemic, and maybe a wish on her part to start over but just too much going on to get there.

You're left wondering what was that moment in time when things went south, knowing she'd been planning ahead. How did you miss it. How could she have been so good at hiding it. 

Could this cause trust issues for you down the road?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Deejo said:


> Can't really argue with anything you pointed out, Diana. I certainly don't argue that the comment I made was hurtful. But after my spouse just telling me she had no interest in being romantic, or sexual going forward in our relationship, I didn't much mind pointing out her hyperbole with hyperbole of my own. I'm a big believer in pay attention to what people do, not always what they say. I wouldn't cheat on my wife. I've never, ever, demonstrated any behavior to the contrary.
> 
> I suspect she chose to pick these fights as a means to justify the decision she was already leaning towards. Any one that wanted to remain engaged, would have acknowledged that both parties said things they shouldn't have, and worked it out.
> 
> ...


Hi Deejo, its a very sad situation either way, but threatening to cheat was wrong even if you didnt intend to go through with it. I appreciate that you were hurt and probably angry after what she said, thats totally understandable, you had been rejected. 
Glad to hear you dont hunt, I will never understand what people think its ok to kill and maim wild animals for so called 'sport.' To me its just sick. 
As for her abuse, well that does leave long term damage and messes people up sexually.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

So sorry to hear this sweetheart. You are one strong dude. Hugs.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

WandaJ said:


> that's a "wow' story. I am so sorry. doesn't look like she is cut for marriage.


After divorce number 4, it's really time to examine the common denominator in all of one's failed relationships. And that would be one self.

She is a very deep feeler. Emotions tend to rub off on her very easily. It is both endearing, and I would imagine, quite a burden. Consequently, she can compartmentalize like no one I've ever met. It's unfortunate. She could be an immensely, easy, fun, low-maintenance partner.

I'm not even really angry with her. But I certainly hoped for a different outcome.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Beautifully and thoughtfully expressed heartsbeating. You seem to have a knack for that.

And yes, in the scheme of things I'd much rather prefer an abrupt outcome, over the alternative of being afraid to do the thing you want to do, and instead building up resentment and bitterness to poison the relationship over the long haul.



heartsbeating said:


> I’ve thought about this, and from a softer perspective @Deejo you had a butterfly in your life for a few years. Similarly to your sentiment, I’m speculating that your beautiful wife hasn’t equipped herself with the love and tenacity needed for long-term commitment. Those previously learned mechanisms to cut and run, or to fly ‘free’, are deeply engrained. On top of that, she no longer had the output of being centre-stage, challenges with work, lock down, and with some different view points and priorities between you...that no doubt combined with the patterns to flutter away quickly and self-protectively.
> 
> It sounds to me that you each took the chance with one another, while knowing the limitations of yourselves, and to an extent, of each other. Perhaps the various factors brought things to a head for her a little sooner than in typical times (when counseling could have been undertaken first, for example), yet maybe in a way, it’s better to pull it now than after years more invested.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I still think it sucks, and I don’t respect the way she pulled the pin so efficiently... yet here it is.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Lostinthought61 said:


> Okay more importantly Deejo what is your first purchase of weapon for sport shooting?


S&W 357 model 60
Canik tp9 elite sc
AR9 pistol 

Have red dots on the Canik and AR9 as I can't see so good out beyond 25 m.

That ... was my first purchase.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

farsidejunky said:


> I wish I had some form of advice to add, @Deejo, beyond my sympathies for the demise of your marriage.
> 
> The Mem statement has an uncanny way of getting to the bottom the marital problems, whether it be related to sex or other issues.
> 
> ...


I do appreciate the offer brother. It was an unfortunate dynamic, because she was very well aware of where I stood about sex and long term relationships. At the end of the day, this may also be the thing that motivated her choice. It's not like I was requesting/demanding sex 3x a week. As I pointed out, we already HADN'T been having sex for around 2 months, which I was cool with because I knew she was stressed out. At the end of the day, whereas I believe it took me a few years to resolve what went down in marriage #1, as is evidenced in my post history; almost all of what I learned here, and put in to practice for myself has led to my being at peace with the dissolution of marriage #2. I do sincerely hope it doesn't have to get ugly.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey Gabriel, appreciate the kind words. Very glad that you were able to find support and input here. Although most unfortunate, and certainly not my desired outcome, I now get to practice what I preached.

One of the outcomes that I am most grateful for, is that my kids have been honest and open in discussing. Both my spouse and I wanted stability for our kids ... who just absolutely loved one another. Her daughter seems to be doing well. She texts me on occasion. Not sure that she fully grasps what is going on (she has ASD, as does my son) but I'll certainly not be shutting her out ... ever, if she so chooses. I loved that kid like my own. I think my demeanor in terms of handling how things have taken place has a lot to do with my kids response as well. They feel safe and secure, because I continue to behave in a manner that lends to their feeling that way. 



Gabriel said:


> Stumbled across this and opened it because I saw it was you, Deejo. You and Amplexor were the single greatest helpers to my situation back in 2011-2012 and I will always be grateful. Hard to believe that was before you even MET this wife of yours.
> 
> Sorry you have to deal with this mess. But you are uniquely able to handle it.
> 
> Cheers.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey Casual Observer, I remember following your threads as well.
I honestly haven't spent a lot of time pondering these things. I knew she was angry based on our 'talk'. I expected that. Potentially for weeks. But we continued to get along, occasionally smile and laugh together. Have a blast with the kids on game night and movie night. Went on a dinner date. So no, I knew she was avoidant and likely harboring anger, but never for a moment believed that our marriage was in direct jeopardy. Frankly, as a result of how things went down is my reason for not seeking any explanation, or entertaining reconciliation. Her lies of omission were numerous. Claiming she was going to see her family, when she was obviously going apartment hunting. My putting our tax return directly into her business account so she could pay down her business debt ... when in fact it was going into her 'escape fund'. My determination that if this were to happen once out of the blue ... even were we to reconcile, there would be nothing to prevent the same from occurring in another six months, or six years.




Casual Observer said:


> Thanks for the context, giving her age. From the photo, the young kid, I was wondering if she might have been younger than that and going through menopause at a really unexpected time of her life, combined with the pandemic, and maybe a wish on her part to start over but just too much going on to get there.
> 
> You're left wondering what was that moment in time when things went south, knowing she'd been planning ahead. How did you miss it. How could she have been so good at hiding it.
> 
> Could this cause trust issues for you down the road?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Diana7 said:


> Hi Deejo, its a very sad situation either way, but threatening to cheat was wrong even if you didnt intend to go through with it. I appreciate that you were hurt and probably angry after what she said, thats totally understandable, you had been rejected.
> Glad to hear you dont hunt, I will never understand what people think its ok to kill and maim wild animals for so called 'sport.' To me its just sick.
> As for her abuse, well that does leave long term damage and messes people up sexually.


Again, I don't completely disagree with you Diana. But importantly, I was never escalated during the exchange. I found what she was throwing out there, to be odd, honestly. I could have sat there quietly and just listened and just let her get it out ... verbal vomiting as it were. But I instead chose to challenge her declaration, with a declaration of my own. And well, here we are ... the place where I presume we would have found ourselves regardless at some point if I acquiesced.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Spicy said:


> So sorry to hear this sweetheart. You are one strong dude. Hugs.


Yeah, I'd much rather be posting in the 'Long Term Success' forum, but figure we would have needed a helluva lot longer than 2 years. Appreciate the kind words, Spicy.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I have an honest question. And I understand that your answer will be speculation.

But, in her mind, what do you think the difference has been between you two prior to marriage verses after marriage?

It's astonishing to me that she stayed with you for_ four years_ before getting married, yet now she's bolted.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Honestly @minimalME, I think it's tricky. I know she didn't like me working at home. She expressed numerous times that she liked having the house to herself to decompress, and not have to worry about anyone, or anything else. Fact for me is, I am unlikely to ever return to the office. I can do my job, and frankly do it better and without distraction, working from home. And ... I save roughly $300 a month in gas and miles on my car. Round trip to the office is around 94 miles. She was very easily overwhelmed, emotionally in particular as I mentioned in another post. I can tell you that she cited the following in a brief conversation we had after she had moved out, when she came to the house to get some stuff. I did ask her, "How did we get here?"
1. I relied on her too much for my personal happiness; which she found overwhelming.
2. I had become complacent and 'wasn't interested in doing anything anymore' ... basically I was boring.

She cited the gun argument (I was, and continued to respect her wish), but she felt I was trying to manipulate her ... and the sex argument. She said she pretty much shut down and closed herself off after those, she rejected counseling and again, her words, "I have no interest in doing the work of counseling. I just want to run."

She said, "Do you want me to keep going?" To which I replied, "No need. You can go ahead and get what you came for."

So, that was how she felt and that is what she cited. I chose my response because I knew I wasn't going to get anything worthwhile. Seemed apparent to me she just wanted out, and was going to justify it regardless. And to be clear, I reject her examples as truth. Her truth? Maybe ... it had never, ever, come up prior to her uttering those words.

What I would have liked to know is how long she has had the urge to 'run'. I suspect for quite some time, and in the interim was trying to talk herself OUT of that impulse. I just don't know.

Again, I can only emphasize that EVERYONE who has come to know what has occurred over the last six weeks, is completely shocked.

I did used to joke with her that, "I was much cooler before we got married." I also used to point out, and she would agree that marriage is fundamentally constraining. The two parties generally acknowledge that as a natural arc of making a commitment to the marriage. For example, prior to the marriage, we'd go away often, we may not see each other for several days which made the time together all the more exciting and valuable etc. After marriage, we bought a house, and she relocated her business. So ... whole new set of financial obligations. No more trips to Florida with kids, or Mexico for us, for the foreseeable future. You know, simply dealing with 'life' stuff. Marriage IS mundane, routine, and sometimes a slog rather than an exciting adventure. Dating, or even an affair? That's a whole different playbook in terms of relationship dynamics.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Yikes. Sorry this is happening. Divorce is hard and sad.

It sounds like in a nutshell, she just isn't cut out for the intimacy and closeness (on all sorts of different levels) of marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Honestly @minimalME, I think it's tricky. I know she didn't like me working at home. She expressed numerous times that she liked having the house to herself to decompress, and not have to worry about anyone, or anything else. Fact for me is, I am unlikely to ever return to the office. I can do my job, and frankly do it better and without distraction, working from home. And ... I save roughly $300 a month in gas and miles on my car. Round trip to the office is around 94 miles. She was very easily overwhelmed, emotionally in particular as I mentioned in another post. I can tell you that she cited the following in a brief conversation we had after she had moved out, when she came to the house to get some stuff. I did ask her, "How did we get here?"
> 1. I relied on her too much for my personal happiness; which she found overwhelming.
> 2. I had become complacent and 'wasn't interested in doing anything anymore' ... basically I was boring.
> 
> ...


Damn.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

i think the biggest disservice she did to you both was not expressing how she felt in that lead-up. It seems she saw one option ...when there could have been space to discuss other possible options; or at the very least having the gonads or emotional intelligence to speak up instead of being deceitful. Even just for her own growth to have that difficult conversation. 

And while marriage could be viewed as ‘constraining’ it can quite also easily be considered as ‘inspiring’ depending on what you each bring out in the other. Most of our lives are routine in some way... doesn’t necessarily equate to boring though. However, what has been demonstrated is this set up wasn’t for her. But there was also no room to consider how else this could go. I know you’re keeping grounded but I feel for ya nonetheless.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

From just reading the OPs OP.... she knows she can secure a LTR, but just can't maintain it.

When she is single, she is lonely......seems to want a man in her life.

When she is in a LTR.... not too long in, she gets to miss her freedom / single life.

In an odd way, she is hoping to meet the guy who can give her both. Good luck wit dat!

"She self-sabotaged the relationship because she did not know how to conduct herself in one and.... she did not think she deserved to be in one" 

Sorry to hear about this. Hang in there!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

The impulse to run, from victims of SA/CSA, is a pretty common theme on this site. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> The impulse to run, from victims of SA/CSA, is a pretty common theme on this site.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk



As a CSA survivor myself I've never understood this impulse. There's nothing I crave more then security and stability, no there's no way in hell I'd run from a guy I was attracted to enough to get involved who provided both. As you know I put up with a lot from ex hb while I thought he was loyal.....once I realized he wasn't he could **** right off.

The disinterest in sex thing isn't something i understand either. I love the emotional closeness with someone I trust. The issue comes in when you can't trust them, which clearly isn't the case with Deejo.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> As a CSA survivor myself I've never understood this impulse. There's nothing I crave more then security and stability, no there's no way in hell I'd run from a guy I was attracted to enough to get involved who provided both. As you know I put up with a lot from ex hb while I thought he was loyal.....once I realized he wasn't he could **** right off.
> 
> The disinterest in sex thing isn't something i understand either. I love the emotional closeness with someone I trust. The issue comes in when you can't trust them, which clearly isn't the case with Deejo.


I‘m your opposite. My CSA issues make me prefer emotional distance and the impulse to run was very strong when I was married (I didn’t). The truth is that some people just shouldn’t be married. I’m definitely one. Deejo’s wife sounds like another but my guess is that Husband No. 5 is probably in her near future — until the next impulse to run.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Hello Dear TAM Friends! It's me! Your sometimes moderator, always charming, questionably wise, Deejo.
> 
> I've been around these parts a long time. I cannot possibly convey how much I have learned and observed from others participating here. So, as a member of the community for over a decade at this point, feel like it's only fair that I disclose some more fat to chew on.
> 
> ...


Deejo,

You say after you made the MEM statement, your wife "flipped". What did she do and say in the moment?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I‘m your opposite. My CSA issues make me prefer emotional distance and the impulse to run was very strong when I was married (I didn’t but I often wanted to). The truth is that some people just shouldn’t be married. I’m definitely one. Deejo’s wife sounds like another but my guess is that Husband No. 5 is probably in her near future — until the next impulse to run (and there always will be a next because some of us never get beyond that).


But won't she need to have regular sex with a #5--- something she isn't interested in? Unless maybe she will look for a man who isn't very interested in sex. Well, and also who won't run for the hills knowing she has been divorced 4 times. Everyone seems to think because she is cute she'll be able to get another partner quickly. I'm unsure if she'll be able to find a quality, long term partner with her history (isn't interested in sex or even romance!, as she told OP, and with her now history of 4 divorces).


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Livvie said:


> But won't she need to have regular sex with a #5--- something she isn't interested in? Unless maybe she will look for a man who isn't very interested in sex. Well, and also who won't run for the hills knowing she has been divorced 4 times. Everyone seems to think because she is cute she'll be able to get another partner quickly. I'm unsure if she'll be able to find a quality, long term partner with her history (isn't interested in sex or even romance!, as she told OP, and with her now history of 4 divorces).


My guess is that there will be sex with No. 5 for awhile and then he‘ll get a similar conversation. And she may start trimming down the number of marriages when discussing that with any prospective new partner(s) in order to attract good men. I think she’s easily bored with the routine of marriage and when the newness wears off she’s done. Shallow comes to mind. She can’t commit long-term. Maybe it’s part of her CSA or maybe it’s her personality or maybe it’s both. Better to find that out now.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> But won't she need to have regular sex with a #5--- something she isn't interested in? Unless maybe she will look for a man who isn't very interested in sex. Well, and also who won't run for the hills knowing she has been divorced 4 times. Everyone seems to think because she is cute she'll be able to get another partner quickly. I'm unsure if she'll be able to find a quality, long term partner with her history (isn't interested in sex or even romance!, as she told OP, and with her now history of 4 divorces).


My guess is the perceived emotional suffocation torpedoed her sex drive.

Without the suffocation, she may be diminished given that she's menopausal, but it will likely return, especially with the excitement and hormones associated with new romantic interests.

I see this as one more way that @Deejo clearly recognized the situation.

ETA: @Openminded put it much more succinctly in the post above.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Long ago I worked with a woman who admitted that she was very easily bored once she was married. She was still in her twenties then — married a couple of years to her second husband and beginning to plan her exit. I was very surprised that she was so open about all of that but I don’t think she was unique. Some people chase newness like it’s a drug and for them maybe it is.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Openminded said:


> Long ago I worked with a woman who admitted that she was very easily bored once she was married. She was still in her twenties then — married a couple of years to her second husband and beginning to plan her exit. I was very surprised that she was so open about all of that but I don’t think she was unique. Some people chase newness like it’s a drug and for them maybe it is.


It's an addiction to limerence.

Once that period has passed, they start looking once again.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> It's an addiction to limerence.
> 
> Once that period has passed, they start looking once again.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Too true, unfortunately for those they married. Nothing is ever enough for them.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@Deejo,

Did you love her, and she love you? Was there something about sharing life together that was better for you both, and the kids?

Your analysis of what’s happened may be spot on. And you may indeed be better off with this sudden end than a long soul-sucking and inevitable death spiral. But, tbh, there seems to be more speculation of what’s happened/happening than solid fact.

From here, it feels like her defenses are divorcing a projection of you, and your defenses are divorcing a projection of her. Of course, it’s the real people that will be left with the consequences.

It took that spinoff thread for me to realize your Mem statement was meant as hyperbole. And such statements, and the situation that give rise to them, are not new to me.

In the moment, did she understand it as hyperbole? How about now? IIRC, you’re OK with it having been potentially hurtful. Are you OK with it potentially having been completely misunderstood, falling way short of its intent to clarify? Are you OK with it further obfuscating what you needed her to know — that that part of your life and your connectedness to her is of immense value you to you, and it pains you to see it suddenly going away? Are you OK with a misunderstanding being the trigger for throwing away what you two had? (ETA: or at least “a trigger”, if not “the”.)

It’s easy to imagine she is damaged goods, and her fight or flight response at this point is pathologically strong, and destructively biased towards “flight”. It’s probably wise to let people be who they are, and not pin any hope on changing them or trying to force them to grow. But, is she worth the trouble, for her own sake or her kid’s sake if not your relationships’, to call her out on her ********/dysfunction as you see it?

I mean, you were willing to try hyperbole about yourself to jolt her. Why not try the truth about her, as you see it? May not change the outcome here, and maybe that’s for the best. But, maybe giving that feedback is worth the effort. If nothing else, such discussion tends towards keeping things real.

Im sorry this is happening. Wishing you and her the best outcome possible.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Like @Laurentium I think that you have given a very perspicacious assessment. Besides, I've wanted to use that word more frequently. 

For me, your wisdom and discernment are valuable, in that I would have picked at the why/whys and you realized the futility.

You loved her deeply (and her daughter). You must have pain to resolve still this soon. I am sorry. So sorry. 

Could her lack of commitment be related to her fear of being hurt (CSA related) so she resorted to defensive tactics? No reply needed.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

You're all very kind. Some really great input and analysis.

Did I love her, and she love me? Absolutely. No question. She certainly made me feel loved. I simply don't do half measures. I do not use the word 'love' lightly. Either about women, or barbecue.

What did she say after? 
Her: "So you're telling me you'll go get a girlfriend?"
Me: "I didn't say anything about getting a girlfriend."
Her: "Well then what do you mean?"
Me: " Not sure yet. Probably just establish an arrangement."
Her: "So, hookers?"
Me: "You're word, not mine. So you want me to tell you that I'm fine with pity sex once every one or two months?"
At this point, she launched the 'none of my girlfriends have sex with their husbands you know, and when they do, its not because they want to'. She was already past threshold. I could have pledged my undying love and devotion, and saved orphans from a burning building, she was completely hyper-focused on my statements about going outside of the marriage for sex. I believe it very much undermined her feeling of safety and security ... thus the clandestine escape plan and phone call the night before leaving.

Regarding not wanting a gun in the house: I've already outlined that my wife felt things very strongly and deeply. In evaluating her statements after everything that went down, I actually suspect it wasn't me she was concerned about having access to a gun.

When she was younger, she was definitely a party girl ... have no idea if hitting 50, and wanting that 50 year old cover rock band lifestyle, was part of a mid-life crisis. She would often ask me if she were 'dressing her age'. I would respond with, 'If you look like you're trying too hard, I'll let you know.' She definitely drank much too much, but I'm not prepared to say that alcohol was a factor in any of the undoing. If anything, it definitely acted as a social lubricant where she was happy, relaxed, and often, horny.

@farsidejunky Limerance ... great word there. We definitely had that out of the gate, and we certainly acknowledged when we were moving into a settled routine of adulting and parenting. I can't account for whether she grows bored with marriage, feels unduly restrained by marriage, or simply gets to a place where she is going to find fault with her partner regardless of his behavior.

I do know that when we started dating and her family was asking about me, her words were; "He's wonderful. He's a grown-up." This was in light of her declaration to me that all 3 previous ex's had wanted a maid and a mother.

In all of this I do feel compelled to point out that she is a wonderfully compassionate person. Extraordinary human insight and emotional intelligence. You almost never had to wonder where she stood or how she felt about something. She GREATLY appreciated that she could express displeasure with me and I would listen and respond, as opposed to her experience of previous partners becoming defensive and turning the issue around on her. 

I guess what I'm trying to say, is ... I don't for a moment think I have a bad 'picker'. Nor do I think she is damaged goods, or batsh!t crazy. We ended up in unprecedented circumstances, well ... due to unprecedented circumstances. I do want my wife to feel happy and fulfilled in her life ... and if she can't feel that with me, then I certainly don't want her to stick around and pretend. Because it sure isn't what I want either. 
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the one that isn't cut out for marriage. Maybe there are compromises to be made, that I'm not willing to make?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Damn @sunsetmist, we've got 3 dollar words flying all around this thread! I very much appreciate your input. As to your 'no reply needed' I strongly suspect that she has an extraordinarily high and extreme defensive reflex. As indicated, none of her previous 3 marriages went over 14 months. I confidently perhaps arrogantly deemed that I had the relationship tools to navigate those waters and make her feel safe, secure, and cherished. And I did ... perhaps too well based upon some of her stated reasons for feeling 'smothered'. I can't account for why she felt like she was the root of my happiness other than the fact that after 3 years together, we were already in uncharted relationship waters in terms of her experience.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Maybe the statement about being the root of your happiness was specifically about your sexual needs? As in, she couldn’t cope with being the one responsible for meeting (or not meeting) those?


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

Deejo said:


> At this point, she launched the 'none of my girlfriends have sex with their husbands you know, and when they do, its not because they want to'.


@Deejo, let me tell you a story of my brother in law, he is married for 20 years now, last year he confided with me about his wife didn't want sex, but she was doing it.

So one day he was working in the garden, cam in, and over heard his wife talking to a girl friend of hers, she said for almost 10 years she didn't really want sex!
My brother in law was surprised, because they have been having sexy 3 to 4 time a week, she never complained, it was really good, she was into it or it seems that it was difficult to know if she was faking it, he was confused!
That evening he confronted her about what he over heard, she came clean and said she really didn't want sex for the last ten years, but she was doing it for four main reasons:

To feel the emotional connection, she told him, men feel love and connection through sex, and I want that connection with you,
The satisfaction feeling she gets known she pleasured her husband.
To fulfill his needs as a man, so he doesn't look else where.
To keep the family intact.
They are still happily married, going strong, she started seeing a doctor about her issues with sex, but they still do it 3 to 4 times a week!
But get this, her friend on the phone was trying to convince her to stop having sex with her husband, because she doesn't have to do anything she doesn't want to, and he has to accept it and respect it!
Her reply to her was very good and I liked it: My husband worked his a** off for us, for years, to provide for us, to give us every thing we need, to have such a great life style that we have, filled me and our kids with love and affection, and you want me to be selfish and deprive him with the most important thing that a man needs to feel loved and wanted?!!

My brother in law is gifted with a wonderful, smart, *high quality woman*, she understands the relationship dynamics between men and women, and knows how to sustain it, and keep it growing!
Not many women these days understands that or can do that, or even care about it!

You see, most (western) women feel entitled and selfish, extremely selfish, they don't want to sacrifice any thing if they don't feel like it, or do something they are not into it, it doesn't matter what you want or need, or if it benefits the relationship, they already know that men sacrifice a lot to keep the family together and provide for it, but when it comes to them, they don't care, they always take and never give, it's always about them and their needs above everyone else, and we all know how many women use sex as a blackmail weapon against their spouses: _do this for me and I will give you some!_
And god forbid if you get caught masturbating because you were deprived from sex, you are such a disrespect!
Their selfishness and entitlement has no limit!
That's the horror fact of the modern western women today!

There will always be *Beta thirsty men*, who don't do anything about it, who don't kick these selfish entitled women to the curb, because this is the best they can do, they are weak, doormats, spinless, get used, and get cheated on all the time, above all that they take their cheaters back, rinse and repeat!

However, because of this modern western women attitude, the new generation of high quality men (Alpha males) are staying away from marriage, and adopting this new culture of: pump and dump! They will never lock themselves down with these type of women and risk every thing they built!

I'm sorry @Deejo, but I do strongly believe that your wife is not a high quality women, and that's a picker problem you need to look into!

I hope I'm not offending you in any way, if I did, I do apologize, it's not my intent!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Not offended. I'm not prepared to judge her quality either. The libido crash has a few possibilities; stress, depression, menopause (please keep in mind, she's 50, not 25) or just 'not that into me anymore'. Intercourse was extremely irritating to her. And even then for a time she was always up for alternatives. This is all a relatively recent, and precipitous event. She has been post menopausal for about 2 years. She hasn't had a period in over six years. Everything, her anxiety, distraction, and lack of interest in sex amped up during quarantine. Which previously I chalked up to her concern about her business, our health, the uncertainty of it all. But it also could have been her realization that was losing interest and investment in the relationship. I don't know. And frankly don't much care. If she chooses to eventually share that with me, great. If not, so be it.

I don't feel compelled to defend her decision to bolt without either letting me know, or being willing to at least try and resolve the issues.

Nor do I feel the need to rake her over the coals either. Did she like what I had to say? Absolutely not. Would she have respected me over the long term if I complied with her desire to abandon a romantic, sexual relationship? I don't think she would. And I certainly wouldn't respect myself. 

I don't expect that she will marry again. I mean c'mon ... after 4 failures? But I certainly don't expect she will become a spinster either. She's fit, attractive, fun and can be a great partner, in a relationship far better suited to her needs than a marriage. For that matter I won't be doing this rodeo again either. There is absolutely no upside for me. Particularly on the financial front.

Another poster here indicated circumstances similar to your BIL. Women outside of the marriage trying to define and influence the course of theirs, particularly on the sexual front.
Your brother in-law's wife obviously values and respects him. Whether that is intrinsic to her, or a result of their relationship dynamic is always an interesting prospect. I know plenty of good men here, and women too ... who have been screwed over royally by their partners, or former partners. Nine months ago both myself and my wife would indicated that she loved and respected me. Lets face it, roughly 50% of marriages end in divorce, not all of those people have 'bad pickers'. But I would argue that 'bad circumstances' are inevitable in virtually every long term relationship. How both participants choose to handle those circumstances either makes, or breaks them as a couple.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Openminded said:


> Long ago I worked with a woman who admitted that she was very easily bored once she was married. She was still in her twenties then — married a couple of years to her second husband and beginning to plan her exit. I was very surprised that she was so open about all of that but I don’t think she was unique. Some people chase newness like it’s a drug and for them maybe it is.


Yeah, and it's a shame they don't seem to realize (or maybe they just don't care) the havoc they leave in their wake.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> Yeah, and it's a shame they don't seem to realize (or *maybe they just don't care*) the havoc they leave in their wake.


I agree.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

I hope you don't me checking-in, Deejo... just wondering how things are going with you?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

heartsbeating said:


> I hope you don't me checking-in, Deejo... just wondering how things are going with you?


 I appreciate the check in @heartsbeating. Well ... 2020 is definitely a black comedy for me, and I'm sure lots of others. Less than a month after MR moved out, I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I'm told worst case scenario is that I end up with a urostomy. We shall see. MR did not take the news well, and no doubt feels A LOT of guilt. I'm a pragmatist. The doctors aren't telling me to get my affairs in order, so I'm planning on being around for a while. We speak occasionally, and it's fine. No tears have been shed on my part, either regarding the demise of the marriage, or the diagnosis. No talk of reconciliation, given that she immediately got a dog, to which I and my son are highly allergic, and I got guns, to which she is highly allergic. Her stress level has not reduced any since making her choice. If anything it has escalated. She is forced to work less, due her daughter attending school remotely, which apparently is not going well for either of them. She is insisting on taking me to my appointments ... which I of course recognize, only adds more stress for her as she would neither be working, nor available to her daughter.

Despite all of this, my spirits are actually good. Work is busy, and they have been very understanding about my need to take unscheduled absences. My kids are doing great. I have not shared my diagnosis with them, as that would only create substantial concern where it is not now, and may never be warranted. Their only familiarity with cancer is that it killed their grandfather. We told them about MR's ocular melanoma (just about 3 years ago) after she was treated and in the clear.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm very sorry about your diagnosis. 



Deejo said:


> I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I'm told worst case scenario is that I end up with a urostomy.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Sorry to hear the turn of health on top of all else... you will be in our thoughts.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Sending positive thoughts to you!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Very best wishes.


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## ewam (May 28, 2017)

Deejo said:


> I appreciate the check in @heartsbeating. Well ... 2020 is definitely a black comedy for me, and I'm sure lots of others. Less than a month after MR moved out, I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I'm told worst case scenario is that I end up with a urostomy. We shall see. MR did not take the news well, and no doubt feels A LOT of guilt. I'm a pragmatist. The doctors aren't telling me to get my affairs in order, so I'm planning on being around for a while. We speak occasionally, and it's fine. No tears have been shed on my part, either regarding the demise of the marriage, or the diagnosis. No talk of reconciliation, given that she immediately got a dog, to which I and my son are highly allergic, and I got guns, to which she is highly allergic. Her stress level has not reduced any since making her choice. If anything it has escalated. She is forced to work less, due her daughter attending school remotely, which apparently is not going well for either of them. She is insisting on taking me to my appointments ... which I of course recognize, only adds more stress for her as she would neither be working, nor available to her daughter.
> 
> Despite all of this, my spirits are actually good. Work is busy, and they have been very understanding about my need to take unscheduled absences. My kids are doing great. I have not shared my diagnosis with them, as that would only create substantial concern where it is not now, and may never be warranted. Their only familiarity with cancer is that it killed their grandfather. We told them about MR's ocular melanoma (just about 3 years ago) after she was treated and in the clear.


my dad was diagnosed with bladder cancer stage T3bG2 in 2012, yes he has urostomy but nearly 9 years on and he is doing really well, so i hope your outcome will be positive too.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Deejo said:


> I appreciate the check in @heartsbeating. Well ... 2020 is definitely a black comedy for me, and I'm sure lots of others. Less than a month after MR moved out, I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I'm told worst case scenario is that I end up with a urostomy. We shall see. MR did not take the news well, and no doubt feels A LOT of guilt. I'm a pragmatist. The doctors aren't telling me to get my affairs in order, so I'm planning on being around for a while. We speak occasionally, and it's fine. No tears have been shed on my part, either regarding the demise of the marriage, or the diagnosis. No talk of reconciliation, given that she immediately got a dog, to which I and my son are highly allergic, and I got guns, to which she is highly allergic. Her stress level has not reduced any since making her choice. If anything it has escalated. She is forced to work less, due her daughter attending school remotely, which apparently is not going well for either of them. She is insisting on taking me to my appointments ... which I of course recognize, only adds more stress for her as she would neither be working, nor available to her daughter.
> 
> Despite all of this, my spirits are actually good. Work is busy, and they have been very understanding about my need to take unscheduled absences. My kids are doing great. I have not shared my diagnosis with them, as that would only create substantial concern where it is not now, and may never be warranted. Their only familiarity with cancer is that it killed their grandfather. We told them about MR's ocular melanoma (just about 3 years ago) after she was treated and in the clear.


I am sorry about the diagnosis, but you are right, the medical field got much better in treating cancer. I have several friends who enjoying their life cancer free after successful cancer surgeries


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I know several males with bladder cancer. So sorry for yours, but glad your prognosis is positive. If I were your child, I would want to know, but you know them better than I.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

@Deejo ... at least you don’t have seagulls to deal with on top of everything else this year.






Glad to hear that you’re keeping on... although I still feel that 2020 can go do one. 😊


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Damn, brother. That's a lot of **** coming at you in a year. I'm sorry to hear about it. 

You mentioned how she felt in trying to take you to your appointments...but how do YOU feel about it?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> I appreciate the check in @heartsbeating. Well ... 2020 is definitely a black comedy for me, and I'm sure lots of others. Less than a month after MR moved out, I was diagnosed with bladder cancer. I'm told worst case scenario is that I end up with a urostomy. We shall see. MR did not take the news well, and no doubt feels A LOT of guilt. I'm a pragmatist. The doctors aren't telling me to get my affairs in order, so I'm planning on being around for a while. We speak occasionally, and it's fine. No tears have been shed on my part, either regarding the demise of the marriage, or the diagnosis. No talk of reconciliation, given that she immediately got a dog, to which I and my son are highly allergic, and I got guns, to which she is highly allergic. Her stress level has not reduced any since making her choice. If anything it has escalated. She is forced to work less, due her daughter attending school remotely, which apparently is not going well for either of them. She is insisting on taking me to my appointments ... which I of course recognize, only adds more stress for her as she would neither be working, nor available to her daughter.
> 
> Despite all of this, my spirits are actually good. Work is busy, and they have been very understanding about my need to take unscheduled absences. My kids are doing great. I have not shared my diagnosis with them, as that would only create substantial concern where it is not now, and may never be warranted. Their only familiarity with cancer is that it killed their grandfather. We told them about MR's ocular melanoma (just about 3 years ago) after she was treated and in the clear.


Holy moly! You are definitely a positive person.

I'm starting to think I should just spend every morning praying for everyone.

What an insane year and the hits just seem to keep coming!

I'm at least happy for your expanding firepower. My cousin has finally almost completed my AR. I should have it by Tuesday and I'm pretty happy about it.

I hope you are enjoying yours.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Hey @Deejo ...wondering how the black comedy is going? aka... I hope you're still feeling resilient and in good spirits. 
Please let us know how you are. I'm sure I won't be the only one wondering.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hey folks! First and hopefully last round of cancer treatment has taken place. Six week waiting period and then they will reevaluate the area to determine if the cancer is still active, or in remission.

Provided an open and honest disclosure to my kids, and I must have done something right, because they implicitly trust their old man. I answered their questions, and they are not fretting over whether or not their dad will be sticking around. All is good and calm. 

My ex-wife (first for those following the play by play) had taken me to a few appointments, and we both looked at one another and laughed when they asked, "and what is the nature of your relationship?"

MR and I are going through mediation, amicably. I've secured refinancing and will be buying out her equity in the house. Again, a positive outcome on that front. I definitely would have gotten cranky if I had to deal with selling the house. If all goes well, I should be divorced; for the second time ... by the end of March. Certainly the outcome which once again, I am neither proud of, nor can say I desired.

Once the dust settles on the divorce and the pandemic, I'm looking forward to going to stay with friends who have retired just off of Lake Chapala in Mexico for a few weeks.

For my TAM friends who I was connected with on FB, my apologies, but I decided that I no longer wanted to be a 'product' for techno-culture, and I deleted my account.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, dang, I was hoping that you two would reconcile your differences. Will keep high hopes for your follow-up diagnosis. It's good that you have something to look forward to with the trip.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Good to hear that you keep on keepin on 

And well done on making it through (hopefully) the last round of treatment.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I'm so sorry to hear about your marriage and diagnosis. Hoping like hell this will be your last round of treatment.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Hello dear friends! Yep. I keep turning up like a bad penny. Unfortunately the first round of treatment didn't knock the cancer for a loop. Will be scheduling a second round very soon and transitioning my care and treatment into one of the major hospitals in Boston. In worst case, it is likely the bladder will need to be removed. Which also means the prostate goes with. Ironically, my prostate is absolutely fine. No indication of tumors or cancer.

Petition for divorce will be filed this week. We settled everything in a singular session with a mediator. Everything was civil and respectful. I'll be buying out her portion of the house in order to maintain a residence for my two teens. I remain upbeat and level-headed. This is certainly not the outcome that I wanted for my second (and last) marriage, but given the unusual nature of how it manifested, I don't feel compelled to do a great deal of soul searching or hand-wringing. 

I do of course often shake my head at how circumstances play themselves out. One of the triggering events for her decision was her insistence that she no longer had any desire to sexual or romantic with 'anyone'. I made it very clear that I did not fall into that category. Now? I'm single, have been sexless for nearly a year at this point, and face the possibility of losing my ability to have a 'normal' intimate life. Ex-wife #2 has been seeing someone for the last 2 months. Her tragedy is, and I say this with no spite or disrespect; she is incapable of keeping a man long-term, yet, she will always need a man.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Hopefully, this next round will take care of it.

Some women are easily bored. Or ultimately boring. Or both. It was inevitable she would line up another guy.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Hello dear friends! Yep. I keep turning up like a bad penny. Unfortunately the first round of treatment didn't knock the cancer for a loop. Will be scheduling a second round very soon and transitioning my care and treatment into one of the major hospitals in Boston. In worst case, it is likely the bladder will need to be removed. Which also means the prostate goes with. Ironically, my prostate is absolutely fine. No indication of tumors or cancer.
> 
> Petition for divorce will be filed this week. We settled everything in a singular session with a mediator. Everything was civil and respectful. I'll be buying out her portion of the house in order to maintain a residence for my two teens. I remain upbeat and level-headed. This is certainly not the outcome that I wanted for my second (and last) marriage, but given the unusual nature of how it manifested, I don't feel compelled to do a great deal of soul searching or hand-wringing.
> 
> I do of course often shake my head at how circumstances play themselves out. One of the triggering events for her decision was her insistence that she no longer had any desire to sexual or romantic with 'anyone'. I made it very clear that I did not fall into that category. Now? I'm single, have been sexless for nearly a year at this point, and face the possibility of losing my ability to have a 'normal' intimate life. Ex-wife #2 has been seeing someone for the last 2 months. Her tragedy is, and I say this with no spite or disrespect; she is incapable of keeping a man long-term, yet, she will always need a man.


I'm certainly more concerned for your health than about your stbx.

What weird games she is playing!🙄


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So sorry to hear about the treatment. As for sex, read up on ostomy and sex. Your confidence in your body image is critical to your sex life. You *can* and you *will *be able to be intimate with a partner. Please pick one with less miles on them this time (fewer past marriages). Good luck!


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

ConanHub said:


> I'm certainly more concerned for your health than about your stbx.
> 
> What weird games she is playing!🙄


I'm a pretty well balanced guy at this point Conan. I certainly had hoped that fact would have a mitigating impact on the marriage. But ... as I discovered, being well balanced sure doesn't make you right. 
There is no cruelty in her. She's all self-preservation. Including avoidance of the fact that she literally made a choice that put she and her daughter into tremendous economic jeopardy. Do I wish she had waited until the ink was dry? I do. Do I invest a whole lot of effort fretting about her choice? No. She feels guilty, she is worried about her future, and she's scared. A good way to avoid dealing with all of that is to try and create a little bliss bubble to escape into with a shiny new partner. But the shine always wears off. Always. And apparently she doesn't know how to cope after that happens.

I'm certainly hopeful that the next round addresses the issue with the cancer. But I'm prepared to roll with it if the urostomy becomes a necessity. Still waiting on results for my kidneys. Doc said that is a whole other discussion. But ... the practical side of me says, it can't possibly be in both kidneys, so if that is the case, I can get by on one. 

Hope all is well and good with your family.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Blondilocks said:


> So sorry to hear about the treatment. As for sex, read up on ostomy and sex. Your confidence in your body image is critical to your sex life. You *can* and you *will *be able to be intimate with a partner. Please pick one with less miles on them this time (fewer past marriages). Good luck!


I've actually started doing just that @Blondilocks. A lot of the information I'm finding is relatively superficial, but I'm researching. Also will have no issue having some very explicit conversations with my doc. I know for sure that I will be pursuing other relationships. No time soon ... but bladder or no, I know myself well enough that I'm no monk.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Openminded said:


> Hopefully, this next round will take care of it.
> 
> Some women are easily bored. Or ultimately boring. Or both. It was inevitable she would line up another guy.


Succinct and very, very, true @Openminded.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Damn, brother. Like others, I find myself worrying little about your STBX, and greatly about your health. 

If you don't mind sharing, how aggressive is the "next step" in your treatment?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Deejo

Please allow me to speak on behalf of women "of a certain age." I am like you, in that I am a sexual being and have no intention of being a nun. But that being said, for me sex is sharing intimately with the one whom I love. So I get to know and love a person, and then express that in a physical way. And since I am "of a certain age" I realize that there may be some adjusting to be made for any variety of ailments that may come up. I know what I'm talking about--with Dear Hubby he had some limitations due to his heart failure, but we loved each other and found a way to make it work that was mutually pleasurable. That's what people do when they're loving.

Whatever may happen regarding your cancer, I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that a partner who gets to know you and love you will make the effort to enjoy you in every way. Honestly, it may end up to be a wonderful way to winnow the wheat from the chaff! LOL I mean seriously, the right woman will probably find a way to turn it into fun (like "Hmmm...how could I make a sexy ostomy belt? Silk...or leather?")

People have stomas for many, MANY reasons, so yep--a good partner is going to care about you, want to see it, and accept it as part of who you are. And YIPPY that little pink thing is what made it so you can be here today! WOOHOO! It's something to celebrate and appreciate. Someone who's worthy of a man like you will not only "accept it" but embrace it and rejoice in it. Okay? Quality women "of a certain age" will think of it like that--women who don't see it that way are not quality anyway--swipe left on that lady.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

farsidejunky said:


> Damn, brother. Like others, I find myself worrying little about your STBX, and greatly about your health.
> 
> If you don't mind sharing, how aggressive is the "next step" in your treatment?


Oddly enough, bladder cancer is a highly treatable cancer. And the primary treatment does not use chemo or radiation. It utilizes immunotherapy. They use an inert form of the tuberculosis bacterium and fire it straight up my business into my bladder. The goal is to kick your immune system into overdrive that will fight off the TB AND the cancer. It's once a week for six weeks. The most challenging part is to resist the urge to urinate for over 2 hours, which I'll tell you is helluva challenge when someone has shot TB up your peepee with the force of a super soaker. 

Upon the initial scope after treatment, the doc saw no visible signs of cancer. But ... a urine test indicated that there were still cancer cells. A biopsy then confirmed. I think that I had conveyed on the boards before that I had prostate issues, which I believed manifested as urinary issues. I'm now suspicious that was never the case and the bladder inflammation I've had over the last few years eventually manifested as carcinoma in situ (CIS).

Next step is another 6 week treatment. If that also fails, it has been indicated to me that any additional treatment is unlikely to be more effective.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Affaircare said:


> @Deejo
> 
> Please allow me to speak on behalf of women "of a certain age." I am like you, in that I am a sexual being and have no intention of being a nun. But that being said, for me sex is sharing intimately with the one whom I love. So I get to know and love a person, and then express that in a physical way. And since I am "of a certain age" I realize that there may be some adjusting to be made for any variety of ailments that may come up. I know what I'm talking about--with Dear Hubby he had some limitations due to his heart failure, but we loved each other and found a way to make it work that was mutually pleasurable. That's what people do when they're loving.
> 
> ...


I like the way you think @Affaircare. And yes, it absolutely crossed my mind that having a conversation about an ostomy is a good way of finding who really values the relationship and doesn't just want me for my charm, good looks, and lack of money.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> I like the way you think @Affaircare. And yes, it absolutely crossed my mind that having a conversation about an ostomy is a good way of finding who really values the relationship and doesn't just want me for my charm, good looks, and lack of money.


Well! Who wouldn't go after someone with charm, good looks, and an empty wallet!! You'll be swimming in babes! LOL


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Well...uhhh...if ya don’t mind a little herpes...uhhh...

_raises hand_




Oh & if @Blondilocks gives me a hard time about CROSSING THE LINES ...DANG woman...give me a break! It’s been at least 1 1/2 years!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well...uhhh...if ya don’t mind a little herpes...uhhh...
> 
> _raises hand_
> 
> ...


LOL.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well...uhhh...if ya don’t mind a little herpes...uhhh...
> 
> _raises hand_
> 
> ...


Whooo! This little barbarian wandered into an adult thread!☺


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Elizabeth001 said:


> Well...uhhh...if ya don’t mind a little herpes...uhhh...
> 
> _raises hand_
> 
> ...


Hahahaha! Not laughing at the herpes. That was just funny. Dated a woman with herpes. Nothing that some good planning, discussion, innovation, and technology can't get around.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Keep moving forward my friend! My thoughts and prayers are with you.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

ConanHub said:


> Now I feel left out!


Me too! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*I just deleted the threadjack.*


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Here’s to focusing on your health ...and not becoming a monk when the time is right.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Divorce finalized, amazingly 6 days after the petition filed in April. I am also king of my castle. Sole owner of my regal estate. Next week marks last of the second round of treatments for the bladder cancer. I re-upped on Match just about a month ago. Within 24 hours was corresponding with 3 lovely ladies. I thought about the possibility of of moving from dating, to intimacy, to full on emotional investment, and having to disclose 'cancer' on an unsuspecting partner. It felt very disingenuous. So, I informed the ladies that I was taking a step back and disclosed the reason why. Two of them expressed appreciation for my candid note and wished me well. The third, sent the following:
"Hi Deejo, thank you for sharing with me. I can imagine that the news is scary. I’d like to be a friend if you need one."

And that simple gesture captured my heart a little bit. I took her up on her offer.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Nice!👍


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Beautiful people of TAM!
I hope you and all whom you love are well.

Got the all clear on the cancer a little over two weeks ago. Getting to the other side of cancer definitely made me a bit more introspective. Life is good ... even when it looks a little weird. And I think we can all agree it has been a little weird over the last 2 years.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

I am so so happy for you Deejo....i hope you have been putting that list together of what you want to do with the rest of your life.

PS is that lady friend still in the picture ?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So happy to hear that!

I've had several people dear to me face cancer and not only has it changed their perspectives on life ...it's changed mine too.

Of course the cancer sufferer has the biggest challenge but when you stick by someone as they face it you ride that roller coaster right next to them. Cancer truly sucks.

Keep posting!


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Beautiful people of TAM!
> I hope you and all whom you love are well.
> 
> Got the all clear on the cancer a little over two weeks ago. Getting to the other side of cancer definitely made me a bit more introspective. Life is good ... even when it looks a little weird. And I think we can all agree it has been a little weird over the last 2 years.


Awesome, brother!!

Care to elaborate on where that introspection has taken you?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Deejo said:


> Divorce finalized, amazingly 6 days after the petition filed in April. I am also king of my castle. Sole owner of my regal estate. Next week marks last of the second round of treatments for the bladder cancer. I re-upped on Match just about a month ago. Within 24 hours was corresponding with 3 lovely ladies. I thought about the possibility of of moving from dating, to intimacy, to full on emotional investment, and having to disclose 'cancer' on an unsuspecting partner. It felt very disingenuous. So, I informed the ladies that I was taking a step back and disclosed the reason why. Two of them expressed appreciation for my candid note and wished me well. The third, sent the following:
> "Hi Deejo, thank you for sharing with me. I can imagine that the news is scary. I’d like to be a friend if you need one."
> 
> And that simple gesture captured my heart a little bit. I took her up on her offer.


Your x may have been a want but you never *needed* her. Your attitude says that.

Congrats on the health. 👏👏👏👏


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

farsidejunky said:


> Awesome, brother!!
> 
> Care to elaborate on where that introspection has taken you?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I take work less seriously. Very little gets me 'worked up' these days. I certainly acknowledge that I have had the good fortune of being able to work from home, and plan on continuing to do so, even after we can go back to the office. It's less chaotic, I'm more productive, and why the hell should I sit in my car for over 2 hours a day if I don't have to?

Had been ignoring a whole bunch of food related issues. Consequently after hard examination and discussion with my doc, I've cut loose dairy, which has all but eliminated my severe bronchial asthma. Cut out gluten, and some other grains, and I've ditched swollen, painful belly, crazy, crazy, fatigue, joint pain, brain fog, blurred vision. (Believe me, I know that sounds like one of those silly health pitches, but in my case ... all true) Food really is medicine. What you get out of it, all depends upon what you are putting in.

All's quiet on the dating front. I'm out there, but I'm not really out there. Again, there is no urgency ... but make no mistake, it has been a freakin' year, Deejo wants to get laid.
I've just learned, and put into practice so much, when it comes to relationships after haunting this place for nearly a decade and a half. All of it I have put into practice in my relationship adventures. I'm thankful for all of it.
I like dating. Don't need anyone to 'complete' me. Not looking for a soul-mate, have no qualms about being alone. I get along with myself just fine.

After re-reading all of the tripe I just wrote above, @farsidejunky, I think the simplest, most straightforward answer I have is; I'm a man at peace.

I've also set a goal that I need to have a coffee date with Paulina Poriskova. Ya'know ... because its important to have goals. Funny story there, I will share another time.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Deejo said:


> I take work less seriously. Very little gets me 'worked up' these days. I certainly acknowledge that I have had the good fortune of being able to work from home, and plan on continuing to do so, even after we can go back to the office. It's less chaotic, I'm more productive, and why the hell should I sit in my car for over 2 hours a day if I don't have to?
> 
> Had been ignoring a whole bunch of food related issues. Consequently after hard examination and discussion with my doc, I've cut loose dairy, which has all but eliminated my severe bronchial asthma. Cut out gluten, and some other grains, and I've ditched swollen, painful belly, crazy, crazy, fatigue, joint pain, brain fog, blurred vision. (Believe me, I know that sounds like one of those silly health pitches, but in my case ... all true) Food really is medicine. What you get out of it, all depends upon what you are putting in.
> 
> ...


You mean THAT Paulina?

Eh...let me open up my little black book.



As for the food, it isn't tripe, or new age, spacey, hippie ****. My overall pain level drops significantly when I eliminate grains from my diet, while shifting my carb intake to vegetables, nuts, etc.

Overall, you sound healthy, bro. 

Keep being great...and when you are ready to tell that story...you know where we are.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

That’s such awesome news Deejo, I’m so happy and relieved for you!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

That's great to read Deejo, it must be a tremendous relief for you. Please keep taking care of yourself, I wish you all the best.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Glad you are clear, @Deejo.

I can't help feel that some people we meet are like human pinballs, they career around, smashing into the bumpers on the board, dropping into holes, racking up scores as they dash and zip around.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

It's great to hear you're cancer free but that might be one of the coldest reactions to a marriage breaking up I've ever heard. I border on sociopath sometimes and don't think I could pull off that level of detachment. At least with a woman I had feelings for.

Not saying you were right or wrong by reacting that way, but having walls that high might prevent a lot of women from bonding with you. Letting guys just hit on her at the club while you watch, I'd think most women would have preferred a reaction out of you. Even if it was under the guise of being something important to her.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

gaius said:


> It's great to hear you're cancer free but that might be one of the coldest reactions to a marriage breaking up I've ever heard. I border on sociopath sometimes and don't think I could pull off that level of detachment. At least with a woman I had feelings for.
> 
> Not saying you were right or wrong by reacting that way, but having walls that high might prevent a lot of women from bonding with you. Letting guys just hit on her at the club while you watch, I'd think most women would have preferred a reaction out of you. Even if it was under the guise of being something important to her.


In one of your other posts you say that you have a really hot wife. Every man I know who has or had a hot girlfriend/wife is used to other men trying to hit on her. Just as hot women learn from a young age how to politely (or not so politely) tell guys hitting on them where to go. 
It’s how she reacts that’s important.


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## gaius (Nov 5, 2020)

Andy1001 said:


> In one of your other posts you say that you have a really hot wife. Every man I know who has or had a hot girlfriend/wife is used to other men trying to hit on her. Just as hot women learn from a young age how to politely (or not so politely) tell guys hitting on them where to go.
> It’s how she reacts that’s important.


Sometimes she does. But I'd never sit there at a table and just watch it happen over and over again . My wife would lose respect for me and my desire for her if I did. 

Notice his wife didn't do anything about the leery guy until he finally reacted? The one time he reacted with emotion to anything. She was probably waiting for that.

And that pickup artist stuff, telling your wife nonchalantly that you'll just go f other women when she doesn't want to have sex with you anymore, that's great if you want to play power games. But if she doesn't want to have sex with you then something's broken and telling the woman you married she's just an interchangeable meatbag probably won't do much to fix it. 

Again, it's not about right and wrong. Who did what or who's fault it is. It just seems like he's casting it all about how he just married the wrong person, when he reacted to some things in a way that would make a lot of women not want to stay married. He can't change what she is or isn't, only what he does for the next relationship.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

gaius said:


> Sometimes she does. But I'd never sit there at a table and just watch it happen over and over again . My wife would lose respect for me and my desire for her if I did.
> 
> Notice his wife didn't do anything about the leery guy until he finally reacted? The one time he reacted with emotion to anything. She was probably waiting for that.
> 
> ...


Don't know if you read all of my posts or responses in this thread. Presuming you couldn't possibly have ... but, if the above is your takeaway? Not really worth discussing.

There were likely lots of things I could have done differently. But I can also pretty easily state that if hanging onto a woman means getting everything 'right' all of the time lest she decide her partner is not meeting her needs or catering to her histrionics in maintaining a healthy relationship ... then yeah, count me out.

I do operate under a very simple premise at this point, anyone of course is free to judge how healthy it is, but I stand by it.

Never fight for someone that isn't willing to fight for you.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Lostinthought61 said:


> I am so so happy for you Deejo....i hope you have been putting that list together of what you want to do with the rest of your life.
> 
> PS is that lady friend still in the picture ?


Circling back around, sorry I missed this @Lostinthought61. No, that lady friend is no longer in the picture. But lucky me, I make friends quickly. 
My 'friend' was frankly, odd. Whenever we went out, she just never, ever, seemed quite comfortable in her skin. It was like always being on our first date. I tried to coax her out of her shell ... and then on the following date, we were back at square one. Far, far, too much work for no foreseeable reward in my mind. This was not a person that was ever going to be able to meet my needs.
Married for just over 22 years. By her estimate her husband was cheating on her for all 22 of them. She was aware, but stayed for the kids. I was kind of like a boyfriend/therapist. Which ... I'm fine with, but that role has a lifespan. It's lifespan expired.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

3Xnocharm said:


> That’s such awesome news Deejo, I’m so happy and relieved for you!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I gotta echo this sentiment, too.

Additional side note: great to also hear that you're watching Y: The Last Man.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

For @farsidejunky, this is the Paulina/Match story. The above profile, 'liked' my profile some time I think back in July or August? I saw this and immediately presumed that it was a catfishing profile, given that the subject of the two photos, I recognized to be Paulina Porizkova.

For people that dwell in the Match ecosystem, it isn't uncommon that some guy from the Phillipines, Eastern Europe, or Sheboygan Michigan for that matter, will throw up a false profile, of a very attractive woman, no more than 1 or 2 photos, and really nothing of consequence as far as a written profile. They will message or 'like' other dudes profiles, with a goal of getting them to potentially send money ... or sign up for crap like Only Fans where they can monetize your interest.

So I messaged the account, presuming whoever the hell it was wasn't very bright, spoofing a supermodel in her 50's. In the message I said:

"Hi Oldenough, wanted to send a thank you for taking a look at my profile. Unfortunately, we really don't live very close to one another. But ... if it is any consolation, I've actually told my ex-wife that you and I have been dating for some time. And just so you are aware, the relationship is going great."

Best,

Deejo (No my Match handle isn't Deejo, nor is it StudMuffin69)

My intention being, to indicate that I recognized the photographs to be of someone who at one time was at least relatively well known as a model. Surprisingly, I got a response from the account 2 days later, with a LOL, and saying they thought my message back was hysterical. The message was brief, but seemed real, and from an actual woman. I messaged back indicating that I assumed her account was a plant, because she was a dead ringer for Paulina Porizkova. Shortly thereafter, the account no longer showed in my feed, meaning the individual had likely taken it down.

So I pop on over to Instagram and decide to follow PP. And lo and behold is a post where she addresses people giving her crap for having been on a well known dating site, and her stating whether people realize it or not, but dating for any woman over 50, model or no, is not great odds. That most men in her age group aren't looking for women their age, they are looking for women as much as 20 years younger.

And that pretty much sums up my non-dating experience with maybe Paulina Porizkova.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

Deejo said:


> View attachment 79011
> 
> 
> For @farsidejunky, this is the Paulina/Match story. The above profile, 'liked' my profile some time I think back in July or August? I saw this and immediately presumed that it was a catfishing profile, given that the subject of the two photos, I recognized to be Paulina Porizkova.
> ...


Even though this post has a distinct humble brag vibe, it was entertaining enough to get a pass. Also if true, a stark message for all those entitled beauties who's future can be summed up in one rather amusing anecdote


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I have no idea how Match works, but if it is possible, I would attach a screenshot of her Instagram post to a message in Match, and tell her you would love to prove her wrong over dinner.

#opportunities

ETA: And tell her Farsidejunky said she was a great date. Just ignore her when she tells you she has no idea who I am. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Jamieboy said:


> Even though this post has a distinct humble brag vibe, it was entertaining enough to get a pass. Also if true, a stark message for all those entitled beauties who's future can be summed up in one rather amusing anecdote


Oh, there's nothing humble about it. 

Marriage number 2 tanking while I'm somehow oblivious. A pandemic. Cancer. Did I mention my celiac disease diagnosis? And the umbilical hernia I've developed as a result of all the crazy bloating? So I now look Quato from Total Recall?












It's all OK though. 

Because I'll always almost, but not really, have Paulina, or at least some woman that looks a lot like her. 🙃


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Great story! Thanks for sharing, it put a smile on my face.😁


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I realize this is a bit off topic but what the hell did Paulina do to her cheeks?

Cheek implants look weird to me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Oh, there's nothing humble about it.
> 
> Marriage number 2 tanking while I'm somehow oblivious. A pandemic. Cancer. Did I mention my celiac disease diagnosis? And the umbilical hernia I've developed as a result of all the crazy bloating? So I now look Quato from Total Recall?
> 
> ...


Regarding the celiac, is this something new, or have you had it for decades?


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Livvie said:


> Regarding the celiac, is this something new, or have you had it for decades?


Appears to have developed to a crescendo over about the last 5 or 6 years. I simply ignored many of the symptoms until they became impossible to ignore.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Deejo said:


> Oh, there's nothing humble about it.
> 
> Marriage number 2 tanking while I'm somehow oblivious. A pandemic. Cancer. Did I mention my celiac disease diagnosis? And the umbilical hernia I've developed as a result of all the crazy bloating? So I now look Quato from Total Recall?
> 
> ...


Lolol!!! This wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me! 
"OPEN YOUR MIIIIIIND..."


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Oh, there's nothing humble about it.
> 
> Marriage number 2 tanking while I'm somehow oblivious. A pandemic. Cancer. Did I mention my celiac disease diagnosis? And the umbilical hernia I've developed as a result of all the crazy bloating? So I now look Quato from Total Recall?
> 
> ...


I know somebody who almost, but not really, sorta has Paulina (kinda)! 😋


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Appears to have developed to a crescendo over about the last 5 or 6 years. I simply ignored many of the symptoms until they became impossible to ignore.


Glad it's now diagnosed.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

lifeistooshort said:


> I realize this is a bit off topic but what the hell did Paulina do to her cheeks?
> 
> Cheek implants look weird to me.


I live off-topic. I'm not all that observant when it comes to someone who has had 'work' done. A buddy of mine used to see she and Ric in Boston all the time back in the 80's. He indicated that she was never all 'made up'. Of the two, it was always Ocasek that stood out. And I can only attest that most of her IG, is her without makeup.

Come to think of it, most of my Instagram is without makeup too.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Affaircare said:


> I know somebody who almost, but not really, sorta has Paulina (kinda)! 😋


Wait ... do you mean someone other than me?

I can't believe I'm not exclusively, not dating Paulina.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

LisaDiane said:


> Lolol!!! This wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me!
> "OPEN YOUR MIIIIIIND..."


Hell, it's a deal-breaker for me too. Having that corrective surgery is next up on the docket.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Deejo said:


> Hell, it's a deal-breaker for me too. Having that corrective surgery is next up on the docket.


Noooo...Lol!! I said it would NOT be a deal-breaker for me!

Quato was awesome!!! Lol! Just ask Paulina if she liked the movie Total Recall!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Deejo said:


> Beautiful people of TAM!
> I hope you and all whom you love are well.
> 
> Got the all clear on the cancer a little over two weeks ago. Getting to the other side of cancer definitely made me a bit more introspective. Life is good ... even when it looks a little weird. And I think we can all agree it has been a little weird over the last 2 years.


Late to the party again Deej, but great news. Best wishes and a great 2022 to you!

Amp


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Amp! Always appreciate your drive bys.

For you and the rest of my TAM family, I thought about posting a photo, but decided that would be really, really weird ...

You all will be pleased to know (big presumption on my part) that I have a belly button once again, rather than Quato from Total Recall.

Also steadily losing weight, and working on my Men of AARP Calendar bod.

Been seeing someone, after multi-dating a bit, since late January.

No new exciting health issues, and the kids remain healthy and well adjusted.

No complaints here.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> You all will be pleased to know (big presumption on my part) that I have a belly button once again, rather than Quato from Total Recall.


😆👍


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> ... You all will be pleased to know (big presumption on my part) that I have a belly button once again, rather than Quato from Total Recall.


Now I am a little disturbed that I'm thinking 'bout @Deejo 's belly button. (shiver)


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

Deejo said:


> Amp! Always appreciate your drive bys.
> 
> For you and the rest of my TAM family, I thought about posting a photo, but decided that would be really, really weird ...
> 
> ...


I'm glad it's working out for you. 
I like seeing happy endings.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I appreciate the thoughts and prayers for my new and improved navel. I'll be even happier if I can visibly produce the supporting cast of abdominal muscles around it ... one last time.

My dating partner is definitely earning my respect and admiration. I had to to do a 'capsule study' in an effort to try to find bleeding in my GI tract, either potentially due to celiac, or worst case, colon cancer (Don't get old, kids). Basically it involves swallowing, I kid you not, what looks like something out of a spy movie. a large clear capsule with a white flashing light inside. And then I get to wear what looks like a weight lifting belt and a gigantic old school Walkman. Apparently the capsule can be 'seen' by the belt, and broadcasts pictures to the Walkman. And then a bunch of very fortunate medical professionals will watch the documentary version of a road trip through my guts. I'm sure it will be very exciting.

But ... no solid foods after 4 pm yesterday, and only clear liquids. To which my lady friend responded; "Tequila is clear ..."
So I do certainly like the way she thinks.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Good luck @Deejo !


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Hope the tests turn out that all is fine Deejo!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

BTW, Deejo, that capsule travelling in your body reminds of a VERY old sci-Fi movie: Fantastic Voyage:









Fantastic Voyage - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

jlg07 said:


> BTW, Deejo, that capsule travelling in your body reminds of a VERY old sci-Fi movie: Fantastic Voyage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember that movie well. That, and Inner Space with Dennis Quaid and Martin Short.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Not dead yet!
Here's to 2023 when men and women get the whole loving, committed, relationship thing figured out and women stop messing it up!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Deejo said:


> I appreciate the thoughts and prayers for my new and improved navel. I'll be even happier if I can visibly produce the supporting cast of abdominal muscles around it ... one last time.
> 
> My dating partner is definitely earning my respect and admiration. I had to to do a 'capsule study' in an effort to try to find bleeding in my GI tract, either potentially due to celiac, or worst case, colon cancer (Don't get old, kids). Basically it involves swallowing, I kid you not, what looks like something out of a spy movie. a large clear capsule with a white flashing light inside. And then I get to wear what looks like a weight lifting belt and a gigantic old school Walkman. Apparently the capsule can be 'seen' by the belt, and broadcasts pictures to the Walkman. And then a bunch of very fortunate medical professionals will watch the documentary version of a road trip through my guts. I'm sure it will be very exciting.
> 
> ...


Good luck with the tests and outcome!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Not dead yet!
> Here's to 2023 when men and women get the whole loving, committed, relationship thing figured out and women stop messing it up!


Some people say that there's a woman to blame......

-Jimmy Buffet


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Deejo said:


> Not dead yet!
> Here's to 2023 when men and women get the whole loving, committed, relationship thing figured out and women stop messing it up!


How are things?

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> Not dead yet!
> Here's to 2023 when men and women get the whole loving, committed, relationship thing figured out and women stop messing it up!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Some people say that there's a woman to blame......
> 
> -Jimmy Buffet


Next line:
"But I know it's nobody's fault."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Deejo said:


> Not dead yet!
> Here's to 2023 when men and women get the whole loving, committed, relationship thing figured out and women stop messing it up!


Thanks for the check in. You've been in my thoughts.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Deejo said:


> Not dead yet!
> Here's to 2023 when men and women get the whole loving, committed, relationship thing figured out and women stop messing it up!


Nearly missed this! 
Happy new year to you!


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