# Child Support/Nonexistent Father



## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

I have a 9 yr old daughter by a man who I have not spoken to (more than maybe 2 nimutes worth) in about... 7 years give or take (lost track a long time ago) My daughter has not seen him in nearly as long, and never as a "visitation" just more by chance.

This is his choice, he lives less than 10 minutes from me, and his mother/grandfather see her (though not regularly, they do see her) 

My relationship with him was abusive once I became pregnant and never really a relationship I expected to go anywhere. Early on, I made the demand that he not see my daughter without his mother there, and when under a year, i would bring her to his mother's house for dinner and stay to make sure things where OK. I did not want his mother to have to do a lot of bending over picking up, and just wanted to be sure she was going to be OK with an infant, knowing he would not do much to help. I know he resented this, but it was not so much punishment but protection of my daughter. As a result (or maybe just him) he stopped showing up, not that he was there when he was there anyway. We never talked about this, our relationship or anything else.

Twice since he has spoken to me about wanting to see her more. Once after a christmas visit, and once he called.... Never called again after each time, all I said was "ok, but you have to make the arrangements, it's on you, I am not going to set it all up for you". Nothing ever came of it.

Now I feel terrible for my daughter, but still think it is better he be out of her life than be someone who will float in once in a while then leave again. I am not even sure that people who know him know he has a child. I know he does not pick out any of her gifts or sign any of her cards (his mother does and I let because I think she needs that, but I also do not make a big deal about daddy gifts to my daughter becuase I know she will catch on and be hurt)

I do not bad mouth him but as she gets older I do become more honest (pointed out when I heard her tell friends he lives far away, or that he just works all the time that he is close and that's not the case) and the older she gets the more I talk to her honestly about it)

Now, as for child support... I handed that to the courts completely, after I went many months unable to get $5 to help with diapers or anything else, or any clothes or even toys for her. the court set the amount and the rules etc... He has not paid voluntariy since June 2010. Got a $75 tax check and he has now been arrested/paid twice.

I do not depend on the money, but I will admit it helps ALOT (not in a situation where I cannot get help when I need it and probably get more help than I should... that's another story) but the little bit of money helps me not need so much help (full time student, I hope not to need monetary help at all as I turn education into something more)

Anyway... I have issues with stupid guilt. I actually feel bad about forcing him, yet not because it takes two to tango. I have only called probabation once, that was last fall when it had gone to over 42 weeks behind and I really needed a little help. 

I guess I am looking for more perspectives on this, especially from men.... He is 33 now, not just some dumb kid (yet i hear he still acts like one). He is 100% absent by choice... but yet I fear at the same time when he does get arrested, it will push him to think he wants into her life, but have no reason to think that would last and be more likely to hurt her, I also figure it is his mother paying bail, and I don't want her to get resentments because I love that my daughter has her in life....

HATE all this crap that goes along with single parenting (and wish my daughter did not have hit some of the same crap I did growing up)

Blah... just looking for perspective...


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Unfortunately, if you force the child support issue, he has the RIGHT to see his daughter. Now..if he were a great father, I'd say he had the right to see her whether he could pay his support or not. I feel it's just too important to have a father figure. A man who is a great father but really struggling financially should be cut a little slack, imho. Of course if mom is struggling too, then too bad if he's struggling...he needs to pay. I elaborated on that too much b/c I felt I needed to explain where I came from on that issue. 

But...he's not a great father. And he's not paying. He NEEDS to pay. I totally understand your concerns that he would then want to see her, and be less than committed to a stable r-ship with her. That in and out thing isn't good. I really do get that. Could it be that as she gets older, he would have an easier time having a r-ship with her? Some men don't do well with smaller children. They can relate to and handle older children better. I don't know..just throwing something out there. You are absolutely right in putting the responsibility for making the arrangements on him, though. However...wonder what his response would have been if you had called on a saturday morning and asked if he wanted to see his daughter for a few hours? 

Did your daughter know that he lived close? (before she was telling friends that he lived far away) If she chooses to tell her friends that he works all the time, that's her choice. The bigger issue would be why she feels the need to "cover" for him to her friends. Not the actually covering up.

There are some really great men on this board, and hopefully they will weigh in on this issue. I think it's going to come from the perspective of those who wouldn't dream of not paying child support. Kinda doubt if a man didn't pay, he'd be too willing to come in and voice his opinions, lol. 

Hope you get a resolution to this!


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

I am pretty sure she made up the stories for herself, just to explain why he wasn't around and I did not do much to correct her till I felt it was right for her (and when it got to be more of an issue, plus one of her friend's knows who he is when his parents talked about how he gives his cousin guitar lessons, very locally)

I don't force the child support issue, it is 100% in the hands of the courts outside of the one time I called wondering if there was a reason it went 42 weeks that I was not aware of. 

This all came up simply because I checked today, saw there was a payment beyond $200 and knew straight off that it was an arrest payment (it was, the system notes it on my end).

He IS a crap father, but it is still not me keeping him away, except perhaps in his mind. I did talk to him once about visitation, I think my daughter was about 5, and explained to him that it was not going to be an instant relationship, and that he had to know that to her, he was a stranger and that to go forward he had to prepare himself for that. I was in no way going to force my daghter into something uncomfortable (she knows I would never leave her with someone strange to her, and at 5 I wanted to make sure he kept her feelings in mind) never heard from him again. Not sure if it was me he was freaked out by or the reality of what he had allow to happen with becoming a stranger (I was certainly not going to sugar coat for him, but I was not overtly harsh or mean either, just very matter of fact)

I personally have ZERO emotions about the guy on any level between us, I got over that YEARS and YEARS ago, but I want what's good for my daughter, whether that involves him or not


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I know where you're coming from, definitely. My kids father walked out on them about 6 yrs ago and stopped paying child support about a year after that. I took him to court 3-4 times to be held in contempt for not paying, and we actually go back to court next month for the same thing, but this time CSE is hauling him in there. 

I never, ever tried to stop him from seeing his children. ONE time, I had a death in my family (an uncle and I was the last member of my family to see him immediately before his death, told a nurse he seemed off, and no one checked on him so I felt responsible) and told my ex that I needed to cancel his visit for the funeral, but offered him the next weekend along with his regularly scheduled visit the weekend after that. 

My youngest was born 20 days before the divorce was final, and my ex stopped coming around before he was a year old, so he's never really wondered about his father. My oldest did for a while, but then he stopped too. I was actually talking to my boyfriend about it last night, and I told him I feel so bad for my son that he's resigned himself to the fact that his father isn't going to come around. 

When he did come around, he was incredibly inconsistent. Between the inconsistency, the length of time since his last visit, his refusal to pay child support (and it IS a refusal, he has no excuse), if he were to call right now and tell me he wanted to see the kids, I would tell him to take me to court. I would want a chance to explain to a judge why at this point, I really do feel it's in my children's best interests NOT to see him. Oh, yeah, and he was convicted of rape after the divorce. Yeah, I picked a real winner. If a judge told me I HAD to let him see them, I would, but it would definitely be under protest, and (legal or not), I would make sure my ex was aware that if he hurt my kids again, I'd be hiring a hit man to take his butt out. Nobody hurts my babies. 

I don't see anything that you have done wrong; frankly, I think you've done everything exactly right. If he wants to see his daughter, then he should put forth the effort to make that happen. You haven't talked badly about him to your daughter, and have in fact corrected her misconceptions that you could have just let go.

Guys like your ex and mine just want to play the victim, and if we don't give them the ammo they need to do it, they'll just make it up. You can't feel guilty. As long as you are a good mother to your daughter, and you don't bad mouth him or interfere in any potential relationship between them, you have nothing to feel bad about. You can't hold a gun to his head and MAKE him be a good dad. He has to want to be, and if he doesn't, there's nothing you can do about it.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

I don't want to make him do anything... I am just afraid of the inconsistency deal. I remember that as a kid, and I am not sure if it was just because I was older, but it was WAY easier to deal when he just finally skipped out completely (it was way less confusing for me and I was able to reconcile that he just sucked as a dad, but hated him less. Just resented) I know my daughter, and I know inconsistency would affect her. I don't mind if he wants to start in earnest, and would even account for how difficult it would be for him to build a relationship at this point in the game, but since I don's know him from a stranger on the street anymore, and all I have is what is/has been shown, I am admittedly reluctant to ever give him the benefit of the doubt. 

Still, when I see that he HAS been arrested and had to pay to get out of jail, I get nervous THAT will make him want to get something for his money so to speak? Totally the wrong reason, yet I am stuck also wanting to allow for that slim chance it just triggers him to move in the right direction....

It is an odd place to be because I don't want to get in their way of a relationship if it's right, but certainly don't want to allow the wrong thing either.

I think a lot of people don't truly understand the complexity of single parenting and how MUCH really goes through your mind, and what things about it really become important. It is so complicated, and as THE care giver, I am the one that has to pick up any pieces from a crash a burn. ARG.... Hate when this crap comes up, all i can say is that at least it only comes up once in a while! It's a lot of stress!!!


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I don't think anyone who's never had to be a single parent really gets it. I know before I became one, I always wondered how they did it and thought it must be hard, but then I became one and realized that I'd had no idea just how hard it really was. 

I actually have a friend who left her husband recently, and she was complaining to me a couple of weeks ago about how he'll tell her he's going to come see their son and then doesn't show and the boy is just heartbroken. So, I gave her her first lesson in single parenting: you don't tell the child that Dad's coming, you let it be a happy surprise so that if he doesn't show, it's not a crushing disappointment. 

The inconsistency is what I worry about, too. That's why I'd make my ex take me to court. I have a written record from when he was visiting, which shows his inconsistency, e-mails where he missed visits and gave excuses like "I'm too tired", "I overslept" and said things like "I'll just wait til the next visit, it's not a big deal." and then throw in how many years it's been and that the kids have adjusted finally to him not being around, and oh yeah, they have ADHD and I need consistency to help control the symptoms of that. I can't say for sure a judge would side with me, but at least I know I'd be giving the judge a lot to think about before ordering me to let him see them. 

I doubt that going to jail and paying to get out will make him want a relationship with your daughter. He's had chances. And I'm willing to bet, since his family sees her, they probably have given him an earful about how he should see her and be a good dad, and he still doesn't. I do understand the nerves, because I feel that way too, but I don't think it'll really happen.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Just going on what I knew of him then (wanting something for his $$ kind of guy) and very resentful that he was asked to help at all. its a tricky slope, and you NEVER realize all the things that come up in your mind till you are there. Hell, I didn't think half the crap i consider existed to even consider till I was here LOL

Don't have any close friends in quite the same situation as myself, and though I LOVE and totally value their support, understanding and advice, it's just one of those things where every experience is different, and that difference makes HUGE difference LOL It so nice to chat it up with people in situations more similar, ya know, to remind me I am not nutters. Nice to be understood sometimes, on a level that only a person who "knows" can


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I guess I was "lucky". When I booted my ex out, he was a raging drug addict and no court in the country would have given him unsupervised visitation. He didn't even try. He didn't pay child support, either. And the courts, nor CSE made him. I still remember the day when a man at the CSE office told me that "well, he doesn't have much money..how do you expect him to pay child support?" I responded that I thought it was THEIR job to "encourage" someone to pay. Not having money is no excuse. I received two bags of diapers. THAT was the agreement. Two bags of diapers per month. And CSE didn't think he even had to do that much, when he reniged on THAT deal.

So I HAVE been there. And yes..it's a tough situation. I fully comprehend your concerns. VERY valid ones. I wouldn't feel sorry that he's busted, and has to pay to get out. He brought that on himself. And there's a difference in wanting something for your money, and "spending" that money means spending time with a child when you really don't want to. If he wanted to, he'd have done it way before now. I could be VERY wrong on this, though.

I agree with Wendy...let him take you to court. IF, and that's a big IF he wants to exercise his so-called "parental rights" and "get something for his money", he's not likely to be consistent with visitation. You can use that against him if it comes down to it. 

If he decides he wants to see her, I would ask that he do so under his mother's (your daughter's grandmother) supervision. She knows your daughter, and is not a total stranger to her. But I sure wouldn't tell her he's coming until he's on his way there. 

This is a tough situation. I feel so badly for kids caught up in something like this, even though they don't know they're caught up in it. It could be that your fears are unfounded. Let's certainly hope so.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Since she is 9, I would not jump to forcing a court thing. I would have a long talk with her, find out what HER terms are then make sure he understood and was going to abide by THAT. I think if I ran it to court with no real reason in HER eyes, it would get in the way of OUR relationship. She does not know or understand enough for it NOT to make me look bad in her eyes. Maybe if she was YOUNGER...

I am most likely fretting over nothing, but I think that's what we mom's do... it's our job HAHA


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I considered exactly what you're talking about. And I can see what you're saying. But with my boys, I think it would be more harmful for our relationship if I told them he wanted to see them, and then he went back to the same old crap. At least if he actually put out the effort to take me to court, that would give me a bit of faith that he might actually mean it this time and actually stick to it. He was in jail awaiting trial when we finalized the divorce, and the visitation he was granted was based on me being incredibly generous considering he was looking at (at that time, before he pled it down) 15-30 years in prison. 

I know with my oldest, especially, he's resigned himself to his father not being around and if I told him his father wanted to see him and then his father didn't show, or showed and then started slacking off again until he was no longer showing up at all, my son would look to me to wonder why I allowed him to come around if that was all he was going to do. 

Plus, your daughter does see some of his family, so there is a little more closeness (for lack of a better word) there with her father. My ex's family ignores my kids just as much as he does. There's absolutely no connection there at all, not even a birthday card or anything. He's a total stranger to my kids, in every possible respect, and given the way I harp on not talking to strangers, that would also play into it. 

I do feel guilty sometimes, wondering if it's all my fault that they don't have a relationship with their father. But then I look at how it was when we were married...and the truth is, he wasn't a father then either. He ignored my oldest (youngest wasn't born till much later) just the same even while they were in the same house. In fact, there was one day when my oldest was just over 2, my ex was walking into the house and my son wanted to go with him. I told my ex, and he responded "ok, come on buddy." Half an hour later, I walk up to the house to go to the bathroom, and I find my son sitting on the porch crying because his father shut the door in his face. We had a pool at the time, too. And when I went in to read my ex the riot act, starting with how it was a crappy thing to do and ending with how my son could have gotten in the pool and drowned, and I wouldn't have known because I thought he was with my ex, his response was "I wouldn't have known either." No comprehension of the fact that it would have been his fault, no regret that he'd messed up, no feeling of fear that we could have lost our son. That incident, and many other things he did, are why he only has (if he ever uses it) supervised visits.


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## woodstock (Feb 21, 2011)

Well, she never did have him there, and accept for pictures i kept for her, she would have no idea what he looks like and did not even recognize his pic when i had it up on the screen from FB, she looked at it said "who's that?" I didn't tell her, then walked away.


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