# Other than divorce what should the consequences to an affair be?



## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Assume you want to reconcile with your WW and assume she wants to as well and is doing everything you've asked of her and is showing remorse and regret. 

What price does she have to pay to rebuild the marriage?


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

oh boy...

the old marriage has been destroyed by her. gone forever. you are R'ing and dating a proven cheat. 

must account for all time, accounts, passwords, subject herself in inquisition, complete loss of trust in her. produce an exact detailed timeline for EVERYTHING. full detail. get it in writing - evidence as admission of adultery for later if needed.

does she know the heavy lifting required and the remote chance of success...

get STD tested. file for D and hold it over her head. consequences. exposure to all family and friends. everyone. no more FB. DNA all kids. shock factor for her.

endless list.

*my advice, D and date hotter younger women who don't cheat AND read MMSLP to improve yourself*


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> What price does she have to pay to rebuild the marriage?


Being "willing" to pay the price, and being "able" to pay the price are two different things. Some things can't be bought. 

You'll certainly need to take into account the whole package of her remorse, empathy, and many other things. 

You might need to consider if you are willing to forgive the price and move onto reconciliation. And again, some things can't be bought even if you reset the price to zero. 

Sometimes there is no moving on even if the price has been completely forgiven. Cheaters can never give you what they don't have. Search her soul to see if she has what you will require. 

It all depends upon the betrayed and betrayer. Many of us never know until we go down that road. I guess there's no set answer.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

A post nuptial seldom has any legal teeth. A divorce could help to remove any lifetime spousal support issues and you can always remarry her after a courtship period. And on the symbolic side, it would bury the old marriage (killed by her betrayal) and give way to a new marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I always tell people that they should insist the ex-cheater go to YOUR parents or siblings, tell them what they did, and ask for their forgiveness for hurting you. 

IMO, if a person isn't willing to do that, your marriage won't survive.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/148497-divorce-even-if-you-might-reconcile.html


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

Graywolf2 said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/148497-divorce-even-if-you-might-reconcile.html


Too many financial issues to deal with is my first reaction. I will read the rest of that thread however.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Too many financial issues to deal with is my first reaction. I will read the rest of that thread however.


What about a legal separation?

A visit with a lawyer could help a lot.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

Your question is interesting. Let me ask you a few things to show the problem with your frame of reference.

1. Do you want a wife or a hostage.
2. Is she your wife or your child.
3. What are you looking for by these consequences?

If she is your possession or child, you can make her tap dance and say her name is "little debbie". It will bring some sort of satisfaction, but it won't solve anything.

If you want to make her the beauty to your beast, put her on lock down.

Good luck, cause you are gonna need it if this is your starting point.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

The thing is that infidelity is a bill that can never be paid. It is the job of the betrayer to rebuild trust. It is the job of the betrayed to forgive the debt.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

bigfoot said:


> Your question is interesting. Let me ask you a few things to show the problem with your frame of reference.
> 
> 1. Do you want a wife or a hostage.
> 2. Is she your wife or your child.
> ...


It's not my starting point at all. Someone else asked me in another thread what the consequences of her cheating were. I had never really thought about it but I guess my answer is not much at this point. Not even sure if there can be any.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

bfree said:


> The thing is that infidelity is a bill that can never be paid. It is the job of the betrayer to rebuild trust. It is the job of the betrayed to forgive the debt.


I think that's it.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

A very good question that will have a wide variety of answers, not everything works for everybody. I can share the consequences my WW has suffered, the things she does that help me, but will it help you? My WW has suffered by watching me, seeing how devastated I am, depressed, humiliated, destroyed, and suicidal. I thought that the WS didn't have a consequence in reconciliation. I was wrong, I've seen my WW lay on the floor twitching similar to a seizure. Her affair has destroyed many parts of her, devastated her, destroyed her, and humiliated her. Not a day goes by that she doesn't cry over what she has destroyed. 

No longer is she the fun loving woman that I married. She's changed and I've changed. Infidelity kills, destroys, changes, and causes immense pain. You are faced with choices as a BS that you didn't want to have to decide. Divorce or reconcile, who wants that choice. Who wants to be a part time parent to their children? But yet everyone suffers more if you stay together for the children. Many many things have to come together for reconciliation. Truth, honesty, and transparency are the three most important to me. 

As a BS I changed without ever wanting to, but it's necessary for me to change to become a better person myself. I had to accept many things I never wanted to accept. The fact that I have been wronged so brutally, yet there is no justice for me. If I divorce or reconcile their is no justice, especially towards OM. I have had to become more vulnerable so I can build trust with my WW. I have forgiven my WW for what she has done to me, I have accepted what has been done to me. Don't think that even for a moment this wasn't something that very nearly destroyed me, that I wasn't in rage, that I wanted blood. But you have to accept it to move on with reconciliation. 

I have struggled with infidelity as many here have. I am in MC and IC to help me heal. I will feel this pain for the rest of my life no matter what decision I make. If I can find peace and happiness in my future I will say I've made it. Reconciliation will last as long as my marriage does, I don't think it ever ends, it just assumes another identity in your marriage that you continue to work on. It's hard work, and takes everything you have to get through a day, but somehow I imagine divorce to be the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *Other than divorce what should the consequences to an affair be?*



*The consequences should be that you get yourself into a financial and emotional state so that you can live with her or without her.* That really is mostly for you but if she really wants you then she will be paying a price for losing your 100% emotional and financial support from you.

I recommend that you forgive her (do not hold any resentments) but that you take actions that your reality warrants. *You must protect yourself in case she does this gain.* She has lost your 100% trust and that is a consequence that cannot be rug swept


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## Augusto (Aug 14, 2013)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Assume you want to reconcile with your WW and assume she wants to as well and is doing everything you've asked of her and is showing remorse and regret.
> 
> What price does she have to pay to rebuild the marriage?


I threatened separation for a few weeks. This brought her to pieces even though she initially wanted to do the same and live with another man. I did not intend to hurt her. It's just how it ended up. She really could not bear the thought of me being gone.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> It's not my starting point at all. Someone else asked me in another thread what the consequences of her cheating were. I had never really thought about it but I guess my answer is not much at this point. Not even sure if there can be any.


Here's why I gave you the apologize to your family advice. An analogy:
A kid steals a candy bar at a store. Another kid steals one. First one's dad yells at his son (who's now quit listening, as he expected to get yelled at) and says 'don't do that again, or else!'

Second kid's dad takes his kid back to the store, tells him to apologize to the owner and tells the owner his son will do labor for an hour (clean, stock) to make up for what he stole, which the son does, feeling the embarrassment of having to apologize as well as the discomfort of having to make up for the money.

Which one is going to steal again?


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

drifting on said:


> A very good question that will have a wide variety of answers, not everything works for everybody. I can share the consequences my WW has suffered, the things she does that help me, but will it help you? My WW has suffered by watching me, seeing how devastated I am, depressed, humiliated, destroyed, and suicidal. I thought that the WS didn't have a consequence in reconciliation. I was wrong, I've seen my WW lay on the floor twitching similar to a seizure. Her affair has destroyed many parts of her, devastated her, destroyed her, and humiliated her. Not a day goes by that she doesn't cry over what she has destroyed.
> 
> No longer is she the fun loving woman that I married. She's changed and I've changed. Infidelity kills, destroys, changes, and causes immense pain. You are faced with choices as a BS that you didn't want to have to decide. Divorce or reconcile, who wants that choice. Who wants to be a part time parent to their children? But yet everyone suffers more if you stay together for the children. Many many things have to come together for reconciliation. Truth, honesty, and transparency are the three most important to me.
> 
> ...




So well said. Infidelity destroys all who it touches. Nothing is ever the same again. If what you had, you love, were happy, satisfied, believing in life ever after...it will never be like that again. 

If what you had, had problems, issues, knew each needed to really work on your marriage or yourselves, then you might have a chance... 

Either way your life will never be what you knew it to be. 

~sammy


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> Here's why I gave you the apologize to your family advice. An analogy:
> A kid steals a candy bar at a store. Another kid steals one. First one's dad yells at his son (who's now quit listening, as he expected to get yelled at) and says 'don't do that again, or else!'
> 
> Second kid's dad takes his kid back to the store, tells him to apologize to the owner and tells the owner his son will do labor for an hour (clean, stock) to make up for what he stole, which the son does, feeling the embarrassment of having to apologize as well as the discomfort of having to make up for the money.
> ...


Excellent point.


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## dadof2 (May 9, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Assume you want to reconcile with your WW and assume she wants to as well and is doing everything you've asked of her and is showing remorse and regret.
> 
> What price does she have to pay to rebuild the marriage?


I have asked myself this same question many times in the last few weeks. Here are a few things my WW has done:

Began interviewing for new job
Admitted her behavior to my parents and her parents
Took a leave from work to check herself into treatment for eating disorder
Agreed to sign a post nup prepared by my lawyer
Deleted FB account
Gave me all passwords
Back on family cell phone plan
Changed phone #, no more GNO or toxic friends
Apologizes every day and thanks me for the opportunity


Even after all of this, she knows it still may not be enough. We have been down a long road to this point and there may simply be too much water under the bridge. She is currently in treatment and we will begin discussing our relationship once she gets out.

I was in the same place you were, and I know that no one can make your mind up for you. You can have every preconceived thought about what you would do hypothetically, but until you are in the situation you don't know how you will react.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

My WW changed phone number and gave me passwords also. And deleted all the friends from FB I was not comfortable with. 

She has confessed to her sister and husband. I'm so embarrassed and humiliated I'm really not sure what telling anyone else would do for me. I'd rather keep it secret for my sake. She has said she will tell anyone I ask her to tell.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Why not spread some of that humiliation to the OM?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why are you humiliated? YOU didn't cheat. Show righteous indignation and waiting to be appeased.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dogbert said:


> Why not spread some of that humiliation to the OM?


Eh cheaterville anyone?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I am in the D or separate crowd but if that isn't for you then just follow the affair recovery guidelines. NC with her affair partner, full transparency, MC, possible IC, doing everything she can to help you heal , reading marriage builder and affair recovery books together, loving dates, LOTS OF OVER THE TOP SEX, and her having understanding and good techniques when you're trigger or are just angry.

I hope it gets better for you and she becomes a wonderful wife and mother. I've seen it happen when a WS is really remorseful and committed to becoming better and healthier.

Is she helping you feel like you are her top desire, loved, appreciated and do you feel she "gets" it when it comes to sorrow for what she did to you and your family?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> Why not spread some of that humiliation to the OM?


Putting OM in his place is always a good idea. Reestablishes your dominance over your invaded "territory".

I know it is kind of caveman but some caveman feels good and does good.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

If you can give some payback to the OM, do not hesitate to do so.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dogbert said:


> If you can give some payback to the OM, do not hesitate to do so.


Aaaaammmmmeeeennnnn!!!! (Choir voices and light from heaven.)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

turnera said:


> Why are you humiliated? YOU didn't cheat. Show righteous indignation and waiting to be appeased.


Yeah I get that, I really do. I just feel really embarrassed that she did. Everyone thought we were the perfect couple.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

tom67 said:


> Eh cheaterville anyone?


I've considered that but revenge is a dish best served cold :smthumbup:


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> I am in the D or separate crowd but if that isn't for you then just follow the affair recovery guidelines. NC with her affair partner, full transparency, MC, possible IC, doing everything she can to help you heal , reading marriage builder and affair recovery books together, loving dates, LOTS OF OVER THE TOP SEX, and her having understanding and good techniques when you're trigger or are just angry.
> 
> I hope it gets better for you and she becomes a wonderful wife and mother. I've seen it happen when a WS is really remorseful and committed to becoming better and healthier.
> 
> ...


She is doing all those things for me and is over the top on ALL of it. I do feel like she totally gets it and she has been there from a few days after dday for me. That is part of why I feel really ****ty about having thoughts of divorce. I know I shouldn't. I guess the bottom line is I love her and if she is doing things right I need to stick it out and see what we can rebuild. I don't owe her that I owe myself that chance.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case my old lady was picking up guys while going out with her girl friends...so no more GNO...take it or leave it.

For instance if your old lady had an affair at work she loses the job and both you guys can eat mac n cheese until she gets another job.

Some folk have dealt with EA when their spouse was gaming on the web...guess what no more gaming if they want to stick around.

get the idea?

what ever falcilitated the infidelity goes by by.

so if your spouse plays sports and was banging a running partner, team mate or the coach....by by sport!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Being wired different then most I enjoy giving my old lady a good hard spanking for being a bad girl...but that's just me.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> She is doing all those things for me and is over the top on ALL of it. I do feel like she totally gets it and she has been there from a few days after dday for me. That is part of why I feel really ****ty about having thoughts of divorce. I know I shouldn't. I guess the bottom line is I love her and if she is doing things right I need to stick it out and see what we can rebuild. I don't owe her that I owe myself that chance.


Don't ever feel bad for your emotions. She did this, not you. Divorce certainly shouldn't be off the menu at this stage.

I am pro health, not for R or D specifically. Cheating is simply a deal breaker for many.

Don't believe of yourself that you should feel a certain way. R is a chance to restore and repair the marriage, not a given or sure thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> I've considered that but revenge is a dish best served cold :smthumbup:


Especially if it's served ice cold up his a$$.


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## xakulax (Feb 9, 2014)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Assume you want to reconcile with your WW and assume she/he wants to as well and is doing everything you've asked of her/him and is showing remorse and regret.
> 
> *What price does she/he have to pay to rebuild the marriage*?




This is a very tricky question with no real easy answer one could argue that after the breaking of the marital bonds the betrayed spouse is free to sleep with someone else if they choose to that could be considered one form of consequence for the affair in this case the betrayed spouse gets to play the field while the wayward has to prove themselves worthy of maintaining the marriage..


Another form of consequence would be for the wayward spouse to do all of the necessary work to regain the trust, respect , and intimacy they lost form there betrayed spouse this will involve doing whatever it takes for how long it will take to regain what they've lost with no guarantees that in the end everything will work out In this case the wayward is forced to become a better person if not for you then maybe for the next spouse..


In the end it really doesn't matter what form of consequence you choose to use in any case of infidelity as the crime itself simply so egregious the only true consequence to resolve the pain, anger, and disrespect is divorce dissolution of the marriage with a slim hope of maybe a second chance afterwords without that the marriage is a hollow shell..


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

In light of your clarification, I would say a consequence is no trust, death of the old marriage, taint on the relationship, and all related crap. 

As for her, she has to earn your trust back, make you believe she's worth the risk for the future and worth the pain you are gonna go thru over the past. What that entails is up to you. Some need to track, monitor, and approve. Only you will know, sadly, after you realize she's not doing it despite her best efforts or gladly you realize she's doing what you need. Seriously, YMMV.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
The only way to have a true reconciliation is when your wife, through her own epiphany, buries her head into her hands, sobbing uncontrollably and says, in a way she has never expressed or understood before, "my God what have I done".

The real question is how to invoke this epiphany. Punishment is really only effective as a deterrent as long as there is fear of being caught. Penance must be truly heartfelt to be genuine, anything less is theatrics and only for the sake of the audience. If you want truth you must convey to your wife, in a way she can understand, if one exists, the complete devastation you have experienced. Only then will R be possible and even fruitful.

I sincerely wish I could tell you how to accomplish this but I cannot. I believe in some cases it is simply not possible due to the cognitive insufficiency of the WS. Every case is unique and, based on your WS's cognitive ability, your attempt may be met with good, limited or no success. I wish you good fortune in your efforts.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Assume you want to reconcile with your WW and assume she wants to as well and is doing everything you've asked of her and is showing remorse and regret.
> 
> 
> 
> What price does she have to pay to rebuild the marriage?



At the very least .... a somewhat public humiliation. Reconciling or not.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The Middleman said:


> At the very least .... a somewhat public humiliation. Reconciling or not.


Because if the cheater (ex-cheater) is unwilling to accept this humiliation, it is a VERY TRUE litmus test that they are NOT remorseful and are just scrambling to get the best deal. And THAT person will cheat again. And again. Until they suffer a consequence.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

actual consequences,not comfortable punishments.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Q tip said:


> actual consequences,not comfortable punishments.


And that's the exact thing. There doesn't have to be any punishment at all. Consequences will almost always occur if honesty is the policy and if the BS doesn't cover up and enable the WS. Be open and tell people the truth, your marriage is in trouble or ending because your spouse cheated. When someone asks why you're separating be truthful. Telling the OM/OW's spouse about the infidelity is just a kind act for another human being. If the OM/OW is a sexual predator who prays on married people that person needs to be outed for the good of society at large. Letting family know why there is marital stress and asking for their help to heal the marriage is not something to be ashamed of. Asking friends of the WS for support is just common sense right? Making sure toxic friends stay away from the person you love is not a bad thing. Even telling the children the reason why they feel stress is just being honest and will strengthen the parent child bond. These are all common sense but for some reason are often avoided today to the detriment of society as a whole.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

W.A.T.G.T.

Have you asked your wife the "WHY" question?

Because if my ww does not understand why she chose to lie and cheat, to have an affair I would want her to go to IC to find out why she cheated and learn what boundaries should be in place so she never makes these bad decisions again.

There is nothing wrong with loving a cheater.

But there is something wrong if you love a cheater blindly.

You both should grow from this horrible event and come out the other side enlightened.

It takes two to love. Two to marry. but it only takes one to divorce.

Take your time on any decisions.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Here's the answer to the "Why" question and you can massage it anyway you want. She cheated because she didn't have enough romantic interest in you to stop her. 

True there is nothing wrong with loving a cheater. The problem is believing if you love her enough, she will you love in return and will not cheat because it will be hurting you. The reality is how she feels about you is what stops her (unless she's one of the few that just will not cheat) You guys need to get away from the commonly used phrase, "I loved her so much; how could she cheat on me". 

Something else. Conservatively, 75% of the married woman who participate in regular GNO are f-ckable. Show me four men whose wives regularly attend GNO and I'll show you three men whose wives will/had/or is cheating.

Now the long and short of "consequences". If you have to force her to give up passwords, GNO, guy friends, jobs, etc, you're reconciliation is a fools paradise. If she's not willfully doing it, you and your marriage is simply less of a priority and/or she's keeping her options open.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> If you have to force her to give up passwords, GNO, guy friends, jobs, etc, you're reconciliation is a fools paradise. If she's not willfully doing it, you and your marriage is simply less of a priority and/or she's keeping her options open.


I did not force her to do any of those things. A few days after DDay she brought me a list of all her passwords. She deleted all the guy friends on facebook, changed her phone number, has had 2 GNO's since DDay and only when I talked her into it. I really don't think about her cheating in the future, either way I know I'm going to be OK. I've never even logged into her email or facebook. I think a lot of this stems from the total lack of jealousy I feel even about the affair. I think the lying bothers me more than the sex at this point. I almost think I could live with an open marriage but I'd have to give that a lot of thought. I seriously doubt she would want that however.


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

NoChoice said:


> OP,
> The only way to have a true reconciliation is when your wife, through her own epiphany, buries her head into her hands, sobbing uncontrollably and says, in a way she has never expressed or understood before, "my God what have I done".


She is coming close to that.

I never really considered consequences until someone asked me here about what we had done. I'm not sure she has had any but she is close to that epiphany.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

bfree said:


> The thing is that infidelity is a bill that can never be paid. It is the job of the betrayer to rebuild trust. It is the job of the betrayed to forgive the debt.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

OP, 

I'm almost 4 yrs out of a semi remorseful hub. He very remorseful in his way, but for some reason hasn't been able to hit it squarely on the head to help me turn it around. 

One of the poster above described the R route, verse the D route. There is also that middle of the road route.. they are the ones who stay and suffer for years trying to live thur it and make it work, only to find, it isn't working and are back posting so many years later. 

Infidelity changes the original marriage so much, the people so much, that one has to really start the courtship all over again & that is where it is hard for a lot of Bs's. To go back and really love the person they know can hurt them so much. 

~sammy


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> OP,
> 
> I'm almost 4 yrs out of a semi remorseful hub. He very remorseful in his way, but for some reason hasn't been able to hit it squarely on the head to help me turn it around.
> 
> ...



sammy3

I have a question for you, if you don't want to answer that is fine. My question is, is your husband vulnerable towards you? I feel that if he were, you would be in a much better place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

In what way do you mean ? 

~sammy


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> In what way do you mean ?
> 
> ~sammy



Is he forward with telling you his feelings? Does he show you and tell you his inner most thoughts on how he feels? If he did it would allow you to help build trust. For example my WW tells me what her thoughts are if she sees me trigger. We then discuss the trigger all the way through until it has passed. My therapist has me being more vulnerable towards my wife. By me slowly exposing myself and letting my wife "in" to my heart it builds trust. By your posts I get the impression your husband is not very vulnerable preventing you from trusting and moving forwards toward a better place.

Sorry for the thread jack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

drifting on said:


> Is he forward with telling you his feelings? Does he show you and tell you his inner most thoughts on how he feels? If he did it would allow you to help build trust. For example my WW tells me what her thoughts are if she sees me trigger. We then discuss the trigger all the way through until it has passed. My therapist has me being more vulnerable towards my wife. By me slowly exposing myself and letting my wife "in" to my heart it builds trust. By your posts I get the impression your husband is not very vulnerable preventing you from trusting and moving forwards toward a better place.
> 
> Sorry for the thread jack.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



He does, but it's always been about him. His issues, why he got to where he was. Had he stopped to look to see what I needed instead as I was for him, we would have never been in this place. 

He has always come back to me with, the betrayal seems much more important to me than saving our marriage, he could never understand why I would not fight for him. He felt that the 30 years of a good life time together should speak for its self, and that I dont valve the marriage as much as I say. 


~sammy 

ps sorry to return the hijac ((lol))


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sammy3 said:


> He does, but it's always been about him. His issues, why he got to where he was. Had he stopped to look to see what I needed instead as I was for him, we would have never been in this place.
> 
> He has always come back to me with, the betrayal seems much more important to me than saving our marriage, he could never understand why I would not fight for him. He felt that the 30 years of a good life time together should speak for its self, and that I dont valve the marriage as much as I say.
> 
> ...




sammy3

OP sorry for this thread jack. sammy3 your husband sounds very similar to my WW. It was all about how she felt throughout the entire marriage. How much I did wrong but she never acknowledged me or my feelings for her. By no means was I perfect, far from it actually, but it wasn't bad enough for her to do what she did. That was the problem she finds so difficult to overcome, how SHE dealt with the marriage. She is now finding that what she has done destroyed everything we had, and that there was a lot of good. But her actions destroyed it all. Before the affair our marriage wasn't perfect, we both own that, but now she sees she destroyed the marriage with her affair.

The betrayal is first and foremost to navigate through, then the problems of the marriage. It's not a question of how much either of you value the marriage, but the betrayal of both lies and infidelity must be worked through first. I think your husband understands how much you value your marriage but is lacking empathy with how much pain the betrayal caused you. He is having difficulty accepting how much pain he has caused you and is deflecting this to you and how you value the marriage. Saving your marriage is very important to you, I see that in your posts, but his denial in your pain and not accepting how much pain he caused his stopping you both from going forward. 

If your husband were more vulnerable to your pain he would show empathy and address the pain he caused you. He needs to be self reflecting to his actions and what those actions did to you. Then you two could talk this through and begin to move forward . Just my .02 cents on what is occurring between you and your husband. 

Sorry again for the thread jack.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I do not believe in paying a "price". One partner needs to forgive - and that closes the books. The other needs to never cheat again.

There is no point being in a relationship with someone you cannot love and trust .




WhereAreTheGoodTimes said:


> Assume you want to reconcile with your WW and assume she wants to as well and is doing everything you've asked of her and is showing remorse and regret.
> 
> What price does she have to pay to rebuild the marriage?


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

drifting on said:


> sammy3
> 
> OP sorry for this thread jack. sammy3 your husband sounds very similar to my WW. It was all about how she felt throughout the entire marriage. How much I did wrong but she never acknowledged me or my feelings for her. By no means was I perfect, far from it actually, but it wasn't bad enough for her to do what she did. That was the problem she finds so difficult to overcome, how SHE dealt with the marriage. She is now finding that what she has done destroyed everything we had, and that there was a lot of good. But her actions destroyed it all. Before the affair our marriage wasn't perfect, we both own that, but now she sees she destroyed the marriage with her affair.
> 
> ...



No worries, I like the discussion. For us I think both parties had to accept that the old relationship was dead and so was the marriage. Even though both of us thought we were happy we had issues with being venerable and intimate. For us the affair was a new beginning and we are now both now vulnerable and open with our deepest feelings. We tell the other exactly what we are thinking and hold back nothing. We are talking about everything and about issues/desires/thoughts we never talked about before the affair. Things like when we masturbate or how. Like who we find attractive and why. Who we've had crushes on during our marriage and why. Our deepest fantasy's. We never had that type of intimacy before but we do now. And I think because of that intimacy we are feeling each others pain more and deeper. We were both selfish, her more than I was, but I want to be a better person and so does she. I think that personal growth by both people can lead to a much fuller, fulfilled and happier life. I would never want to go back to our previous relationship and from that viewpoint the affair was probably the only thing that could have gotten us to this place. I would not wish an affair on anyone, it was life changing, it was the most painful things I've ever experienced. But I'm partially glad it happened because this new relationship rocks and that is the basis for me being able to be happy and hopeful so soon after the devastation of finding out. I don't fear her cheating again at all and I've been able to let go of the pain and resentment easily in large part because of the type of relationship we have built since the affair.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

WATGT.

Its funny, I too in a lot of ways never thought I would ever had thought it, but I see how the affair has open hubs and I too in communication. We are closer in a lot of ways too. We are present in today's world. We talk a lot, and express deeper thoughts too. All a lot you write above. We aren't intimate thou.

What has held me back along with my hub lack of 100 empathy, I just cant make love to him again as I cant get the thoughts of him doing it with her while he is doing it with me out of my head, or me in mine. It just ruined it there for me... It was almost a 2 yr long affair.

I gave him almost 30 yrs of me, the best years of me, our world would be wonderful right now as so many opportunities have opened up for us recently. 

But what has come out of this mess for hubs, he has given up worrying about every little thing in life and really enjoying his bucket list of things he wants to do. His life has become so full, so alive, so much healthier. He has started to do things he never did before, eat foods he never did before, just started to live, not let life get him down, like what life offers him. He feels life is just way to short now. ((He was the cheater))

For me out of this mess, I wasn't the worrier, but that's all I do now. I don't live my life as hubs, I've been a sahm ((for way to long,)) and lost all friends,((moved away)) I've never worked... and am stuck with taking care of the home and all the sh** that goes with it as he travels and lives out his bucket list! Hmmmmm... I thought the best revenge was for me to live my life to the fullest... 

I'm really glad that you've been able to save your marriage, you sound happy, you sound positive, you sound like you're going to make it! Wishing you a good future...

~sammy


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## WhereAreTheGoodTimes (Sep 19, 2014)

sammy3 said:


> WATGT.
> 
> Its funny, I too in a lot of ways never thought I would ever had thought it, but I see how the affair has open hubs and I too in communication. We are closer in a lot of ways too. We are present in today's world. We talk a lot, and express deeper thoughts too. All a lot you write above. We aren't intimate thou.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your thoughts. I had a lot of trouble with sex right after but learned to shutout the thoughts of the OM. I decided not to give him that power over me and I rarely even think anything about him. I think for a lot of couples the cheater seems to be much happier in the reconciliation and I decided that was not going to be me. I don't plan on living the rest of my life unhappy for what she chose to do. I hope that makes sense. 

Hope you can find happiness and things turn around for you!


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