# Can we address the "why" without going backwards?



## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

I have been doing a LOT of thinking recently about my marriage, my H, his EA and our future.

I forgave my H, and this has lifted a LOT of weight off my shoulders. It isn't a cure-all, I still think about things. I probably talk about them less and manage them differently now: our MC says I am very emotionally articulate and "mature" through my behaviors now and how I manage negative emotions. I am very careful in how I reference trigger points, or express a concern related to his EA.

I am sure that H appreciates me more now. I don't know if this is because we nearly ended up separating and he realised the effects of what he had done, if it's because of the immense amount of work I have done on myself (still ongoing) and my "I am amazing!" outlook, or a combination, but I feel a lot more appreciation from him.

I also feel that we have done a lot of positive work on our marriage. We are making efforts, going out on dates, planning holidays by ourselves, and generally focussing a lot more on US. We have looked at our communication and how we can improve this, and although I certainly can't say things are perfect, they are way improved.

My concern is this. We have discussed in MC, how he would handle things if a similar situation came up again. I am happy with what he says, about how he would express boundaries, both verbally and physically. What concerns me is that we seem somewhere to have skimmed over the WHY he did it.

We have established that he feels it wasn't to do with me, and anything I was or wasn't doing. He insists it was HIM. OK. He says he liked the ego boost, the attention. From things he has said, I suspect she was very confident and upfront, and I gather he also liked that.

What concerns me is not so much his thoughts on how he would handle things in the future, because I feel those thoughts are very sincere from him. It is more the fact that there is obviously SOMETHING that led him, at that point, to pursue something with this woman. He was getting something he wanted, needed even. I feel that until we can address the "why", I will continue worrying that he doesn't really understand why he did it.

He used the "I was just being friendly" excuse all along. And I think to some extent he still believes that now. He sees it as crossing MY boundaries but not his. He admits he knows he did wrong and the damage he has done, but because it hurt ME, not because he feels he acted inappropriately. He even said at one point that the things he texted her, there was no way he'd have sent them to a male friend. But he was just being friendly. He says he made bad choices. OK. I know he fully intends to act differently in the future. But if this "need" is still there, to feel validated by women outside our marriage, then how easy is it going to be for him to step away if some woman is massaging his ego?

We have established boundaries now which we are both happy with. But how can we get into they "why" without rehashing everything that happened? Can we? We have been doing really well in MC at moving forward and I don't want to go backwards, but how can we do this constructively?


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## SeekingSerenity (Jul 29, 2011)

I understand exactly what you mean. My husband has an EA for on and off for 5 years that went physical 6 months ago. 

Granted I am new on the board, but he keeps saying it had nothing to do with me, he loves me, it was him and the place he was in (he is bi-polar and wasn't on meds or see a doctor at the time) at the time. He wanted to feel like he did before all the bills and anxiety when he had no worries, well crap who doesn't. But he keeps saying even after finding these love letters that it really meant nothing, how do you believe it, I know I want the why, but he says the why is because he was in a dark place, he thought he wanted his cake and eat it 2, but he was wrong and it meat nothing. Maybe that is the difference between men and women, men see things maybe as more straight forward, like this is fun, and I will say things but I don't mean it, its just fun. I don't know, I am still new and trying to get through it. 

I hope you get your why and you keep moving forward - :0)


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

SeekingSerenity said:


> I understand exactly what you mean. My husband has an EA for on and off for 5 years that went physical 6 months ago.
> 
> Granted I am new on the board, but he keeps saying it had nothing to do with me, he loves me, it was him and the place he was in (he is bi-polar and wasn't on meds or see a doctor at the time) at the time. He wanted to feel like he did before all the bills and anxiety when he had no worries, well crap who doesn't. But he keeps saying even after finding these love letters that it really meant nothing, how do you believe it, I know I want the why, but he says the why is because he was in a dark place, he thought he wanted his cake and eat it 2, but he was wrong and it meat nothing. Maybe that is the difference between men and women, men see things maybe as more straight forward, like this is fun, and I will say things but I don't mean it, its just fun. I don't know, I am still new and trying to get through it.
> 
> I hope you get your why and you keep moving forward - :0)


I think my H had a touch of trying to escape from his reality too. He hasn't said it, not in relation to his EA, butputting things together, I think that was an element.

I wonder if I'm searching for an answer I all ready have. He said he liked the attention. It bolstered his ego. He didn't initiate the situation but he did get involved, kept it going. I have asked why of all the times he has had interest from other women, he chose to pursue her. Why did he not just leave it like he had every other time? He says here that his intentions were never to do anything physical. I think he still thinks to a degree that this makes it OK. At the time anyway.

It just puzzles me that he said he was happy with me and he never felt neglected. There is something in him seeking this validation of, "hey, my W says I'm great, I'm hot, and now this pretty girl thinks I'm hot, Let me bask in this attention: I wouldn't actually CHEAT, but I'll indulge in an emotional attachment to feed my ego. It's OK coz we're only friends: but I better not let my W know."

Hmm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

RWB said:


> Most Counselors want you to gloss over the Details and Whys. The are taught that that drags up pain and hurt and will stall R and moving forward... BullSh!t.
> 
> You vows have been assaulted by your husband. If he is remorseful and whats to R not only does he need to answer to the details and whys, he need to understand that for you to forgive... You must know exactly what you are forgiving him for.
> 
> NO Marriage can exist in peace and harmony with the 800lb gorilla living in the corner. In fact, a good counselor will tell him straight up that failure to disclose the details of and the reasons he felt "justified" to cheat, are just continuing the Betrayal.


RWB. Yes I agree. My H is actually getting better after each session of MC at using what we have discussed to strengthen things. The moving forward stronger than before he is good at. 

The difficulty is, he isn't emotionally aware enough to look inside and seek the "why." He gets defensive. He also sees it as a very "logical" issue. He crossed boundaries. He made bad choices. He wasn't aware at the start of her intentions (but knew her feelings.) He then sent mixed messages to her. To him it's as simple as if someone came on to him again, he'd make his boundaries clear. His reasoning as to why he wouldn't react in a similar way when I say "but what if someone does the same thing, feeds his ego and makes him feel good,is that because he knows now that it is wrong. Like I had to tell him.

He can't answer WHY he had to accept that attention and perpetuate things outside of our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jae1225 (May 9, 2011)

RWB said:


> Most Counselors want you to gloss over the Details and Whys. The are taught that that drags up pain and hurt and will stall R and moving forward... BullSh!t.
> 
> You vows have been assaulted by your husband. If he is remorseful and whats to R not only does he need to answer to the details and whys, he need to understand that for you to forgive... You must know exactly what you are forgiving him for.
> 
> NO Marriage can exist in peace and harmony with the 800lb gorilla living in the corner. In fact, a good counselor will tell him straight up that failure to disclose the details of and the reasons he felt "justified" to cheat, are just continuing the Betrayal.


Those are my sentiments as well.
That is why I told my husband to leave, I was willing to give it a
try and see if we could work on our marriage, but he refuses to this day to talk about what he has done.


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

Although some degree of why is necessary, it can become a slippery slope. Regardless how much they share each time we ask, we can continue to ask why and not be satisfied with the next follow-up response, only to follow it up with another "why". It can create a vicious cycle and literally cause the healing to stall. Seek "why" but don't expect the reasons to make sense to you. Their reasons for cheating will NEVER make sense to someone who's ethics and core values would never let them do what they did. We will never be able to put ourselves in their shoes and say "oh, now I understand".


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Walking... no answer he gives you as to the "why" will ever be satisfactory. It sucks but it's true.


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## SeekingSerenity (Jul 29, 2011)

BS193 and JellyBeans :iagree:

I won't understand cause I couldn't do it, I would leave, it's not in my makeup. August 4th will be 3 weeks since dd. He tells me it's easy to stop, he never loved her, I had no bearing on any of it. True I can't understand his mind at all, yes he cared about her as a friend but nothing more...but his letters say different.,.., his was an EA that started in 2006 annd stopped for 2 years when I found letters, then letters started in 2008 then stopped then he contacted her this year in December and shortly after sex 3 times. How do you deal with that, can he ever truly walk away from her? I thought I was getting better but today broke down big time crying today. I am headed to the treadmill.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Walking... no answer he gives you as to the "why" will ever be satisfactory. It sucks but it's true.


I suspect this may be true.

Last night I spoke with him about this. He said it happened because it was flattering, he said everyone likes to know they've still got it. He said at that time, he was feeling snowed under and felt the pressure of everything going on in his life, and he liked that she liked him for him without any of the other stuff going on.

I asked why wouldn't it happen again in a similar situation? He said because what happened before was wrong. I said OK, so if she filled some need he had for admiration, and was a distraction, then what has happened to that need? I explained I worried it may still be there and cause problems in the future. He immediately said if I thought he NEEDED the attention of other women and would seek it out , he wouldn't. He was very clear that he DOES NOT HAVE THIS NEED.

He doesn't understand this. No matter how I phrased it, he didn't get it. He got angry and said we'd talked about alk of this before, and I'd said I wanted to forgive and move forward. Yes I replied: but I'm asking this looking forward, wanting to know he had learned from MC the reasons behind this.

In the end he said it didn't matter about the feelings and reasons behind it, all I needed to know was that he was sure that he would appropriately handle things if anything ever came up again. Then I kept getting the soft talking, the "let's not ruin the weekend" plea, "let's just enjoy our time today." 

I honestly feel that wanting to deal with the reasons behind his EA is a valid point. Even though we are moving forard. If he felt like that then, I think it is valid to want to know if he still feels like that. If he's dealing with those feelings. He just wouldn't say anything about that.

I also feel like he has tried to quiet me down. Rug sweep almost. But like I told him, forever is a long time to commit to when I don't feel sure about this issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bs193 (Jan 2, 2011)

It isn't enough to just say it won't happen again. He essentially said it wouldn't happen the first time when you took your vows. It can't be swept under the rug and I agree it sounds like that it what he is doing. You just need to keep in mind that you can "why" it to death and never understand. That doesn't mean you can just ignore it and move on. It can be frustrating...I know.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

My theory on the "why" is that I can understand the "why." He was in the fog. The fog made those things at the time OK, excusable. Now, I know he cringes looking back.

I guess my concern is not the "why" in and of itself, but knowing that the feelings behind the "why" aren't still there. Or that he's working on them. Otherwise, to me, doing all this work is like using a band-aid. The problem will still BE there, underneath. I'm just not sure of why looking at this is such a huge problem for him. I tried explaining it in so many different ways. Maybe it's me. I don't know, maybe I'm not explaining it clearly enough. 

I know though that he is tiptoeing around me. He keeps asking if I'm OK, giving me reassuring hugs, squeezes. I started off being honest and saying "no", but as the day has gone on, I have just said "yes". He is of course a lot happier to hear that than the no. I am sure he won't bring it up again unless I do. I am pretty sure of what response I will get if I do bring it up. Shutdown. "Why are you still going on about this?" "I told you, we've ALL READY TALKED ABOUT THIS." "Let's just enjoy the rest of our day without thinking about it." "I've only got today before I have to go to work, let's not spoil it."

The trouble is, for me, this negates all the good stuff he's done. Bad, but true.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

What is difficult is to wrap your head around knowing that at least in part it is a character issue combined with opportunity.

A part of you knows that no matter what he says or does going forward, the right circumstance will have him making or choices again.

Another part of thinks that if you can get to some intellectual reasoning for what he did you will be able to spot a trend and stop him next time.

You want a rational way to predict and prevent the irrational.

Not gonna happen.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

michzz

I've read a lot of your posts. What would you suggest? Do I need to just stop?

I ask because we had a really destructive discussion late last night. He keeps saying, "but you agreed you wanted to look forward and not talk about this anymore." I did say I forgave him and wanted to look forward. But I came at this originally from the viewpoint that I wanted to know he knew the reasons behind it, so I could too, and would learn from them.

I guess I worry that although he says he knows what he would do should anything similar ever arise, I worry that if the motivation is still there (ie the feeling of escapism, of liking that outside admiration), it will be as hard as it obviously was before to cut dead any potentially "bad" situation.

The thing is, I genuinely believe he feels he knows what he would do. I know he is sincere. He said last night when I asked him if those feelings were still there, "no." What happened to them? What has changed? "I know it's you I want." But didn't you know that before? "Yes." Um, what?

He is also good at locking down me starting a discussion. He is a lot more dominant than me when it comes to conversation, he knows I find it hard to initiate talking. I know this is *my* issue and not his, but when I do initiate a talk, he locks down and shuts me out with various reasonings, then was claiming last night that that *wasn't* what he was doing.

I don't want to gloss over this issue but I'm not sure what to do. Currently he's asleep on the sofa and I probably won't see him before he leaves for work. The atmosphere is terrible, he's frustratede beyond anything and I feel like he isn't answering my questions and is deflecting them with the "we've done this all ready" reasoning.

Advice?


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Hmmm... at first I felt this was fairly typical line of thinking that we BS all share, but the more I read and the longer your discussions go on, the more I'm concerned for you - because he's not concerned enough for what you ACTUALLy are feeling, instead of what yoyu convey to him for his convenience.

YOU are not ruining a weekend or time together by wanting answers and needing more dialogue -- HE did this, and HE needs to own more of your healing. He's made a sweeping statement ("I just know I won't do it again"), which isn't good enough for you and you want more. The fact that he really won't discuss it is kind of a problem, I feel...

However I think we BS all get that same response, becasue there really is no good answer beyond what we're hearing: they liked the attention, and like a drug addict their character is flawed in that they wouldn't/couldn't/didn't stop themselves. There is a lot of hope (and faith) in that comparison, where an addict _once they realize they are an addict and it's a problem_ perhaps can catch their addiction and see it for what it is and stop using in the future. We 'victims' want a better answer, but as people here have said, there just isn't one.

Something I'm starting to press on and question is a different angle to the same thing: Not so much why she entered the A ( I get the feed the ego/attention thing), but why she felt it was OK to do it inside of a marriage, to lie to me, to betray vows, sneak around and connive and risk her family and future. That's a different question imho that really tears open the soul when you get heavy into it.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

For a long time I was wondering "why" and "how". I finally realized that these were stupid questions. The answer was staring me in the face ever since D-Day. I don’t know why I wasted so many months trying to sugar coat it in my own head. It’s like I needed her to convince me that it was a horrible accident and she would have never done such a thing to me.

Well, here is the harsh reality in my situation. My wife cheated on me because she was capable and she wanted to. She did not care if I got hurt, my kids got hurt, or our family was destroyed. It is as simple as that.

A lot of people talk about the fog…..guess what….the fog did not make her cheat. Her cheating caused the fog. Once she started to get into the fog and justify all of the things she was doing she had already cheated. 

So what we are actually looking at is a character flaw so to speak. And that’s ok, I have them to. I’m not a cheater but I’m no perfect angel. I’ve done things that hurt us in the past and I deeply regret them. None of us are perfect.

One day I realized this and I stopped asking “how” and “why”. I just got over that mess. It is cold hard reality. There is no fairytale. The people you love can hurt you very badly. There isn’t a “how” or “why” that’s ever going to take back what she did or make me feel any better about it.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Walkingwounded, The day you realize this it's going to hurt. Sorry, but that is just how it is.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Agree with it-guy, came to a similar realization. I took it a step further and told her plainly, without emotion: "It's because you didn't love me enough NOT to do it, nor enough to stop once you crossed the line, nor enough not to go back again and again, and this is what I'm not sure I can get past". It's pretty black and white, plain and simple.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

2xloser;388105)
Something I'm starting to press on and question is a different angle to the same thing: Not so much why she entered the A ( I get the feed the ego/attention thing) said:


> Gosh, have you hit the nail on the head! Did you ask?
> 
> ~sammy


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

it-guy said:


> For a long time I was wondering "why" and "how". I finally realized that these were stupid questions. The answer was staring me in the face ever since D-Day. I don’t know why I wasted so many months trying to sugar coat it in my own head. It’s like I needed her to convince me that it was a horrible accident and she would have never done such a thing to me.
> 
> Well, here is the harsh reality in my situation. My wife cheated on me because she was capable and she wanted to. She did not care if I got hurt, my kids got hurt, or our family was destroyed. It is as simple as that.
> 
> ...



I hear you. Part of my hurt is that I found out, we decided to R, then a lot of stuff happened after where he lied and there was a lot of fishing going on from both of them. I guess in an odd way that although I am thankful it wasn't a PA, even after I knew, he kept fishing for that shot of attention. The irony is, I know he was into her but not as much as she was into him. I don't believe he would have taken it further, but he kept it going just as much.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

2x & it-guy, I have to agree. For me it also comes down to the DS's own selfish wants and desires being more important than everything else. Selfishness overrides their marriage vows, their spouse's feelings, and their integrity.... it's all about what feels best for them at that time.

I know the why... the OW made my H feel wanted, it was an escape, she was new, etc etc. But still, he could've said "I'm flattered" and walked away. He didn't, because he enjoyed the attention too much to stop. So, we understand the "why", but can't grasp the "how".... how were they able to be unfaithful?

How could my H have an affair? He thought he'd never get caught. He didn't spend a lot of time considering the ramifications of what he was doing, because he was going to "figure it out" on his own. He could have his cake and eat it too, without ever having to risk loosing the life he had with me. Cheaters selfishness make them believe the old adage, "What they don't know won't hurt them" and justify their desire to pursue something they know is wrong. 

My main concern for you WW is that your H doesn't want to keep talking about it. It sounds like he's wanting to avoid self examining his faults and own his selfish behavior in the past. But he's still being selfish by wanting to rug sweep. My H gets very bummed discussing his EA/PA, because it hurts to remember how selfish and self absorbed he had become. However, he does it to help me keep moving forward and to remember he's on the path to becoming a better man.

I can see what troubles you WW. Your H says he knows _now_ that his past behavior was wrong and he won't do it again. I want to call bu11$#!t. How could he not know it was wrong if he was keeping it from you? My H fully admits, he knew what he was doing was wrong. He did it anyway. Maybe your H is having trouble acknowleding he was just being selfish or maybe he's still believing his own bs? Admitting you acted like a selfish @hole is not easy. 

Our MC said to me one day in therapy, "You're realizing he didn't love you as much as you thought he did." Hurt like he11 to hear, but it's true. I can tell you right now, cheaters put themselves first. Only after they make this realization can they start to make changes, so you're alongside them and not behind.


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## walkingwounded (May 7, 2011)

it-guy said:


> For a long time I was wondering "why" and "how". I finally realized that these were stupid questions. The answer was staring me in the face ever since D-Day. I don’t know why I wasted so many months trying to sugar coat it in my own head. It’s like I needed her to convince me that it was a horrible accident and she would have never done such a thing to me.
> 
> Well, here is the harsh reality in my situation. My wife cheated on me because she was capable and she wanted to. She did not care if I got hurt, my kids got hurt, or our family was destroyed. It is as simple as that.
> 
> ...



I hear you. Part of my hurt is that I found out, we decided to R, then a lot of stuff happened after where he lied and there was a lot of fishing going on from both of them. I guess in an odd way that although I am thankful it wasn't a PA, even after I knew, he kept fishing for that shot of attention. The irony is, I know he was into her but not as much as she was into him. I don't believe he would have taken it further, but he kept it going just as much because he loved the attention.

As for the "why did he lie? Why did he hide stuff?"... Well. At least I can get straight answers on this one. Because he knew whatever particular thing he'd done would upset me. There is an awful lot of "I thought as soon as I'd done it, what the **** had I done?" The hiding stuff? Well that was his own boundary issues. The ztuff he didn't initially reveal was because he "didn't think it was important." This was despite me insisting I KNEW he hadn't told me everything. There has also been the old "I didn't lie about it" about why he hid stuff. At least I know the score on those!

I think I seek to know what he was thinking when he got into it and made some of his decisions. I don't know how productive this is. I know he still thinks that what happened carries different meaning to both of us: ie it didn'tmean anything to him and he wouldn't even consider calling it a kind of relationship. 

He says he thinks this is a shame as we were making so much progress. He says he thinks I should stop taking my pill as the hormones are affecting my moods. He says have I thought about going to IC to discuss my issues as I'd probably find it useful.

I KNOW all of this is cliche city. But he is starting to make me question myself. I don't know what to say to him: it's like he is trying to convince me that a) I absolutely CANNOT talk about this anymore because I said previously I thought it didn't help my mood, and b) that I have blown it all out of proportion for what he sees as a pretty harmless "flirtation".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

walkingwounded said:


> ...But he is starting to make me question myself. I don't know what to say to him: it's like he is trying to convince me that a) I absolutely CANNOT talk about this anymore because I said previously I thought it didn't help my mood, and b) that I have blown it all out of proportion for what he sees as a pretty harmless "flirtation".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with what Saffron said -- _"My main concern for you WW is that your H doesn't want to keep talking about it."_ Not healthy, not the partnership you need, not the environment to healing. Even if you WERE to allow the rugsweeping to happen, that would not be healing and it would re-emerge sooner or later for the issue that it really is. AND on top of that, you'd be angrier for not having gotten it addressed here & now when you needed it, which makes for a worse situation down the road, imho... 

My view is, the WS does not get to dictate ANY 'terms' for how R and BS healing takes place. They forfeited any rights to such when they strayed, so it is now incumbent upon them to do _whatever it takes_ to help and allow their BS to heal. However they want it to be (within reason, of course). You should be insisting on this, I feel, as it can only lead to further resentment and bad times ahead.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

Walkingwounded, how would your H feel if you did the same thing he did? How would he feel if you engaged in an EA? 

I'm in the same boat as you, stuck on the "why." Although like others have said, I will never be satisfied with his answer. I also get the "lets not ruin the day" talk. And that remark always results in ruining the day.

Last night the H and I got into it. I told him (very immaturely, I admit) that maybe I should engage in an EA, and it would put us on a level playing field. It would be fair. The H freaked, tears streaming down his face and all. Basically, it's okay for him because he didn't mean to hurt me, but since I'm intentionally trying to hurt him, it's not okay.

My H was a complete wuss even after he was busted in his EA. When I was kicking him out of the house, he said "I can't believe YOU'RE doing this to us" and "I didn't want this to happen, you're the one who woke me up and bothered me about it."

Ugh, sometimes I feel like I should be emotionally prepared for it to happen again, as to not be caught off guard.


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## KathyGriffinFan (Apr 4, 2011)

2xloser said:


> I agree with what Saffron said -- _"My main concern for you WW is that your H doesn't want to keep talking about it."_ Not healthy, not the partnership you need, not the environment to healing. Even if you WERE to allow the rugsweeping to happen, that would not be healing and it would re-emerge sooner or later for the issue that it really is. AND on top of that, you'd be angrier for not having gotten it addressed here & now when you needed it, which makes for a worse situation down the road, imho...
> 
> My view is, the WS does not get to dictate ANY 'terms' for how R and BS healing takes place. They forfeited any rights to such when they strayed, so it is now incumbent upon them to do _whatever it takes_ to help and allow their BS to heal. However they want it to be (within reason, of course). You should be insisting on this, I feel, as it can only lead to further resentment and bad times ahead.


:iagree:


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

sammy3 said:


> Gosh, have you hit the nail on the head! Did you ask?
> 
> ~sammy


Yes I've asked. "I just really don't know; I so completely compartmentalized it all and I'm just so sorry; I don't know what I was thinking" seems to be the usual response so often that I actually start believing it's all the answer there is to be gotten.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

2xloser, seems the ability to comparmentalize is a common trait in cheaters. My H did the same thing. He knew it was wrong, but was totally able to separate the affair in his mind. He said it's like your own brain is unwilling to let you think about the $#!tty thing you're doing. So you tuck it away and ignore it during your "real life", only bringing it out when you can slip back into fantasy land and not examine what you're actually doing.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

My wife told me that she was in a bad place with me, and that is why she did it. 

Not exactly what you want to hear. She did say that next time she gets in a bad place she will just D me instead.

Great......thanks....how fantastic for me...

These are questions we should not have to ask because the answers are going to suck. May as well just start posting that for everyone new...."there is hope, but it is going to suck really bad, and your R is just a matter of you putting up with a lot of pain......how bad do you want it?"


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

My H told me all he wanted was more closeness to me. Yeap , that's right, that's why he had the affair ! 

~sammy


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

RWB said:


> Most Counselors want you to gloss over the Details and Whys. The are taught that that drags up pain and hurt and will stall R and moving forward... BullSh!t.
> 
> You vows have been assaulted by your husband. If he is remorseful and whats to R not only does he need to answer to the details and whys, he need to understand that for you to forgive... You must know exactly what you are forgiving him for.
> 
> NO Marriage can exist in peace and harmony with the 800lb gorilla living in the corner. In fact, a good counselor will tell him straight up that failure to disclose the details of and the reasons he felt "justified" to cheat, are just continuing the Betrayal.


We are still having problems with R because of this very thing. He says he was in love with the idea of being "her lover". Doesn't seem to get it that he did not have the option of considering himself in those terms, then or now? He still seems to think that he is a free agent about certain things that concern our relationship. It's complicated, and it doesn't inspire trust. He says that my inability to trust and move on is more damaging to the relationship than his A? In any event I am still the cause of his A, and much of our pain., and I am treating him "like a dog" because I can't be all kissy kissy with him. He appears to like being the martyr in any situation, and it has prevented him from realizing how much his behavior has hurt me and our ability to recover from this. He says that he knows what he did was "wrong", but he doesn't really seem to understand why it was wrong. I thought I knew this man, now I fear that I might have made him up. We've been together for 22 years, and I am not really sure that I know who he is. It's very disorienting for me.


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