# Feel like a sucker....what can I do?



## confused in NJ (Sep 12, 2013)

My wife and I are going through a divorce. We simply aren’t compatible. She is cold, unexpressive and passive aggressive. I am warm, speak my mind and prefer to talk things out.

A year and a half ago, after being separated but living together for almost a year, we got the point where the situation wasn’t a healthy environment for either of us or our children. It was clear that one of us should move out. She had not worked for 10 years and even though she was the one who initiated the separation because she wasn’t happy, so still had not looked for a job or a place of her own. I told her that I thought she should be the one to move out and she looked me in the eyes, and very coldly and matter of factly said “I’m NOT going anywhere”. Being a good man and good father, I chose to move out in the hopes that some physical separation would help the marriage. Here it is a year and a half later and nothing has changed.

Over the past year and a half I had expressed to her that if she wasn’t happy and wanted out of the marriage, she should file for divorce. I simply couldn’t bring myself to do it because I didn’t want the marriage to end. I was still blindly hopeful. She told me repeated that she didn’t see any reason to file and that things seemed fine the way they were. Finally, I had no other option but file myself. That was 8 months ago.

She refused to file an answer with the court until I explained to her that if she didn’t she would be in default. I told her that I didn’t want us to drag each other through the mud and that I wanted the divorce to be as civil as possible. She finally filed 2 months ago.

She finally got a part time job about 5 months ago, but still hasn’t looked for a full time job with benefits or a place of her own. I expressed to her that I felt as if she has been taking advantage of my good nature and the fact that I’m still in love with her. She of course denied that she was taking advantage of me. Since I moved out, I have been giving her half my paycheck to pay the mortgage and utilities, all of which are solely in my name. The kids live with her in our home 50% of the time.

I feel like a sucker. I feel completely unappreciated and taken advantage of. I will be going for the house in the divorce because I feel like it’s my home. I lived there for 14 years and rebuilt it with my own hands from the ground up. Also, I don’t see how she would qualify for a mortgage to buy me out.

At this point I don’t know what to do. I feel so mentally abused, so taken advantage of. I asked her if she has a plan and she has said repeatedly that she hasn’t had the time to think about it.

In my experience, I’ve known several women who leave the home when they aren’t happy and start their life over again. I’ve also known several men who when in a similar situation have refused to pay anything to their spouse pending the outcome of the divorce. In our situation, she won’t leave and I keep paying her. I feel as if I’ve been enabling her and she doesn’t have any reason to do anything because she has it pretty good. I never thought she would be the type to take advantage of me, but I guess people do desperate things in desperate times.

Our first court date is in a few weeks (Case Management Conference). Should I be a cold bastard and stop giving her half my paycheck? Will this be held against me during the divorce if I do?

Paying for 2 household for the past year and a half is finally catching up with me financially. I don’t know what to do.
____________________________


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Why are you doing that?
Why did you move out?

Is she having an affair? As you must know, in the state of NJ that still carries some weight as does abandonment. You should have never moved out.

I'm not sure if cutting off payment will affect your case, check with your lawyer.

Check for signs of an affair or another man. Is she going for alimony? You know the deal here after 10 years of marriage.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

Do you have an attorney? I don't know what the law is in your state but I would speak to an attorney about whether you should just move back into your home and take ownership back. You have the kids 50% of the time so there is no reason for her to stay there. Let the courts figure it out. Of course you will need to be able to keep the peace since the kids will be affected by the environment you set. 

You probably don't need to give her the money but pay the mortgage yourself. An attorney will also let you know how much you need to pay her, if any.

You can become a cold bastard if you want, but you need to be the person you want to be. You need to be someone you are proud of and you are still setting an example for your kids.

I am sorry for your situation.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

He should get back into the house. I live in the same state. Him moving out can be seen as abandonment.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Move back into your house immediately. Don't move back out till you have sold the house. 

I hate to say it, but you're probably gonna lose a lot in the divorce...at least half of everything, including the marital home which you left. 

Talk to a good lawyer ASAP.


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## Jntrs (Feb 13, 2013)

you are being a sucker, sorry to say it like that but its true

time to man up and let her live by her decision, she wanted out then she needs to pay her own bills, the reason why she doesnt feel the need to find a full time job is cus you are there to pay for everything

its not easy and most of us try to be nice and help them and we are blind about it, just go ahead and worry about yourself just as shes doing it


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Do you have a lawyer? I have a name of one that will do a free one hour consult.

In this state if he can prove an affair he will have negotiating rights.
He won't lose everything. There is a formula for alimony and child support. She can collect it until the kids are out of college. As for marital property she may be able to stay in the house until the kids are adults.

If there has been an affair, all bets are off. Now he has the advantage. BUT he needs to get back into that house now.

She may have already seen a lawyer or spoke to someone with knowledge about the subject. That's why she refused to leave the house.


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## Blacksmith01 (Aug 12, 2013)

Move back in now.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You should have talked to a lawyer long ago, and found out how much you could be expected to pay in child and spousal support. You shouldn't have moved out of the house. And yes, you've been a classic "nice guy", for way too long. You need to start being concerned about taking care of yourself.

Get copies of "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and "Married Mans Sex Life Primer". 

C


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

The courts tend to keep the status quo.

Makes sense, it's been working it was agreed to between the parties, so why change it?

She will petition the courts to get sole possession of the marital residence at least for the pendency of the divorce action, and maybe until the children reach the age of majority. She will also ask the courts to continue to award her at least half your paycheck and the odds are they will give her at least that much since you offered it on your own. 

As others have suggested, you really should have consulted with an attorney before you moved out. At this point, moving back in, cutting off the support- with a court date looming- will only make you look bad to the courts. Of course she will tell the courts you have been living separate and apart, and you only just moved in right before the court date. In that respect, your fate is sealed. 

See an attorney, and find a good one. Expect them to shake their heads when you tell them about your own self imposed exile and support payments. 

A good attorney will probably tell your wife not to go job hunting anytime soon because if she starts working it will decrease her support award. She will likely try to make a case that she was a devoted, loving wife but you left her and the children and filed for divorce so you could live the exciting single life and/or imply that you've got someone else on the side, even if she has not one shred of proof. That's how it works.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Alimony formula in NJ:

Husband's pay - wife's pay OR earning potential (base is 20,000 for a high school graduate) \ 1/3 = total alimony payment.

Lifetime alimony is standard if they are married over ten years.

The judge will force her to get a full time job, part time won't be accepted.

Support is based on percentage until the child finishes college.

This is the standard UNLESS he can prove she is having an affair, then the ball falls back into his court.


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## bleepbloop (Aug 18, 2013)

How were things unhealthy in your relationship so much that you felt one of you needed to move out. All I've heard is that she's cold and you're warm. And u work and she doesn't but that seems reasonable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confused in NJ (Sep 12, 2013)

What was I supposed to do. The mortgage is in my name alone. I have to pay the mortgage or hurt my credit. One of us had to leave it was to unhealthy for the children. She's incredibly stubborn and unreasonable and refused to leave. Although she's passive aggressive most of the time and doesn't talk or communicate there were times when she got violent with me. I never even came close to being violent with her no way I would never do that. I really had no choice and now I'm going to get screwed for doing the right thing
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

confused in NJ said:


> What was I supposed to do. The mortgage is in my name alone. I have to pay the mortgage or hurt my credit. One of us had to leave it was to unhealthy for the children. She's incredibly stubborn and unreasonable and refused to leave. Although she's passive aggressive most of the time and doesn't talk or communicate there were times when she got violent with me. I never even came close to being violent with her no way I would never do that. I really had no choice and now I'm going to get screwed for doing the right thing
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No you're not if you do this right from here on out.

First do you have a lawyer?

Second,do you suspect there is someone else? Have you checked into it because there is a very good possibility there is.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She got what she wanted. You out of the house and financially supporting her. Her life remained the same except you were gone. Why would she want a divorce. Your mistake was moving out and letting it drag out for 18 months. With the description you gave, why would you have been reluctant to end it. Sounds like it was miserable and she didn't want to fix it. 

You need a good lawyer. Now.


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## confused in NJ (Sep 12, 2013)

As far as there being someone else, been down that road many many times. There definately was an Emotional Friend situation that she hid from me and strange signs that could look like infidelity in one way...but not in another, but she maintains that nothing ever happened. It's been so long now and we've talked about it so much I really don't know what to believe anymore. I'm so confused. My gut tells me there was someone else but my head says there wasn't. 
I have pictues of bite marks she left on my arms one night. Maybe that will help. I just don't know anymore.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

confused in NJ said:


> As far as there being someone else, been down that road many many times. There definately was an Emotional Friend situation that she hid from me and strange signs that could look like infidelity in one way...but not in another, but she maintains that nothing ever happened. It's been so long now and we've talked about it so much I really don't know what to believe anymore. I'm so confused. My gut tells me there was someone else but my head says there wasn't.
> I have pictues of bite marks she left on my arms one night. Maybe that will help. I just don't know anymore.


If there is suspicion then most likely there is, look harder. 

I live here. I've seen a lawyer. I'm telling you what you need to do right now for your own good.

Clear your head and start getting your information together. The pictures are good. Start looking for proof of an affair. 

I'm going to ask again, do you have a lawyer? Like it or not you are going to need one. There are ones in NJ who will do a free consult with no obligation to sign anything.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

confused in NJ said:


> What was I supposed to do..One of us had to leave


Well, it's rather late in the game, but what you could have/should have done was consult with an attorney before you moved out, to protect yourself from a legal standpoint.

The attorney would have asked you several relevant questions, during which time the domestic violence your wife committed against you would have arisen, at which point a competent attorney would suggest you file a restraining order because you fear for your safety and she would have been removed from the home, leaving you with sole possession of the marital home and her with the burden of proof to demonstrate that your accusations of her being violent are completely fabricated, which would be rather difficult considering you have pictures of the injuries she caused you.



confused in NJ said:


> I really had no choice and now I'm going to get screwed for doing the right thing


You had choices. You may very well get screwed but it's not because you did the right thing. Moving out and determining a support payment without consulting with an attorney was rather reckless. 

The sooner you obtain appropriate qualified counsel, the sooner you can start pulling yourself out of this mess, but realize that damage has already been done and you're fighting an uphill battle from here.



confused in NJ said:


> There definately was an Emotional Friend situation that she hid from me


There was at least an emotional affair. If she was ever alone with him or her then you can bet it was physical/sexual as well. 



confused in NJ said:


> she maintains that nothing ever happened.


That's meaningless. All cheaters lie, most betrayed partners believe nothing happened.



confused in NJ said:


> My gut tells me there was someone else but my head says there wasn't.


Guts are for eating. The head is where you do your thinking. Thinking is affected by emotions and logic.

Logically you suspect something happened, and it appears you have good reason to do so. Emotionally, you cannot accept she cheated on you, that's largely due to denial. It's impossible to accept, so you ignore it as a possibility but your stomach feels all tight because you just know something is very wrong there.

Time to do some surveillance. It's my understanding that in your state you may be subject to lifetime alimony but in the case of an affair you could cut a huge break. Get out there and find proof. There are tips all over this forum on how to do that.


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## confused in NJ (Sep 12, 2013)

There’s been an unexpected change in my situation.

Last night my STBX admitted to me that she won’t be able to afford the house and that she won’t fight me for it. It’s mine if I want it and can buy her out, which I can. This was a huge relief to me. The only stipulation is that she wants to ensure that the kids are as unaffected as possible, especially my 9 yr old daughter. She wants to be sure that I keep the house so that my daughter can remain in the house until she is done with Elementary School in June 2016. After that, I can sell if I want. We are both in agreement on this so it is a non-issue.

Here’s the problem…I’m way too nice of a guy and too good of a father. I actually feel a little guilty about getting the house. I feel a little guilty about my STBX having to start over with nothing. She never had a career to speak of and at 43 she would for the first time be on her own. I know that she should have thought this all out and planned better when she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore…2 yrs ago….but I can’t help wanting to help her out.

In the best interest of my kids, and to help my STBX out, I’m thinking about proposing the following: 
1-Let her stay in the house until June 2016
2-At that point in time, I would have the right (If I choose so) to buy her out. If not, she would have to buy me out or we sell the house
3-The house stays in my name and I pay the mortgage myself out of the alimony I would be paying her
4-As a benefit to me for my sacrifice we would agree to reduce the number of years alimony she would get by some number of years…yet to be determined.

This would help my daughter be as unaffected as possible, and it would give my STBX 2 yrs to get herself on her own feet so that she can provide for our kids in her new place when I buy her out. Right now she is just to confused, scared and uneducated to do so properly in my opinion. I’ve been taking care of her for 14 yrs.

I know this sounds like I’m a huge sucker, but if it helps my daughter…and helps me out financially over the years…..and shows my STBX that there’s no hard feelings so we can still raise our kids together….what’s the harm? A little karma might be a good thing....it just feels like the right thing to do for everyone involved.

I know most answers are going to be to consult an attorney and I will I need to, but I wanted to get a feel of this community on the idea.

Thanks.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

confused in NJ said:


> I can’t help wanting to help her out.


If you can't help it then why do you seek advice?

Sounds like your decision has already been made and it's not something you can control.

The general consensus of the posters here is to see an attorney and you have yet to do that, you just continue to say "I want to help her and here's my plan, what do you think?".

I think your approach to this whole thing is, and continues to be, rather unhealthy.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

CNJ,

You are acting like a sucker. It is a $hitty plan. 

It sounds to me like you need to stop being a chump and give her what she wants. She has made the offer. Take the house and take the kids. Let her go chase unicorns and rainbows, but make her do it on her own nickel.

Get an attorney and then cut her off to the minimum possible.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Are you going to be okay with her bringing another man into the house and having sex with him on your marital bed?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Tron said:


> CNJ,
> 
> You are acting like a sucker. It is a $hitty plan.
> 
> ...


This


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

confused in NJ said:


> I know that she should have thought this all out and planned better when she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore…2 yrs ago….but I can’t help wanting to help her out.


Why don't you sit with this awhile and realize what it means for you?


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Go see a lawyer. You're going to be stuck for lifetime alimony. That's a well known fact in nj and I'm sure she knows it. The judge may even tack rehabilitation alimony on for a couple of years until she can get an education to get a well paying job.
I'll say it one more time, there are plenty of firms who do free 1 hr consults in nj. Go see a lawyer!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

confused in NJ said:


> In the best interest of my kids, and to help my STBX out, I’m thinking about proposing the following:
> 1-Let her stay in the house until June 2016
> 2-At that point in time, I would have the right (If I choose so) to buy her out. If not, she would have to buy me out or we sell the house
> 3-The house stays in my name and I pay the mortgage myself out of the alimony I would be paying her
> ...


YES, you are a HUGE SUCKER. This plan SUCKS! No lawyer is going to get behind you on this! Stop sympathizing with this woman and get your head out of the sand! You need to get back into that house NOW and tell her that since SHE is the one who wants to end the marriage then SHE needs to move out. PERIOD. I have always been of the belief that the one who WANTS out, GETS out. I have done it twice myself. Take the house, take the kids, and STOP feeling sorry for someone who doesnt love you, is manipulating you, and most likely CHEATING on you. 

NO MORE MR NICE GUY! STOP BEING A SUCKER.


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## confused in NJ (Sep 12, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## confused in NJ (Sep 12, 2013)

this site is amazing. At times it's very helpful other times it's just people saying whatever they want to say regardless of fact. The fact is there's no such thing as a lifetime alimony anymore in New Jersey. Haven't been for a long time. I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation and help my daughter and help myself out financially. I dont care what happened in the past....just what happens going forward. Just cause she made mistakes....doesnt mean i should. And for the record.i have gotten legal advice and my situation isnt as bad as u all make it seem. Ill take the high road....all of the.time....thats just who i am. We decided not to get lawyers involved so i think im doimg.just fine. Thanks anyway....but if i wanted hateful advice by people who got burned and are bitter....ill go to the local pub.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

confused in NJ said:


> this site is amazing. At times it's very helpful other times it's just people saying whatever they want to say regardless of fact. The fact is there's no such thing as a lifetime alimony anymore in New Jersey. Haven't been for a long time. I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation and help my daughter and help myself out financially. I dont care what happened in the past....just what happens going forward. Just cause she made mistakes....doesnt mean i should. And for the record.i have gotten legal advice and my situation isnt as bad as u all make it seem. Ill take the high road....all of the.time....thats just who i am. We decided not to get lawyers involved so i think im doimg.just fine. Thanks anyway....but if i wanted hateful advice by people who got burned and are bitter....ill go to the local pub.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There's not?? Really, you sure about that? That's not what my lawyer told me. It's lifetime alimony. I may also be eligible for rehabilitative alimony for a few years because I was a sahm.

I gave you the formula my lawyer gave me.

Do what you want. We've tried to help, you just don't want to hear it. I've told you what a lawyer told me.

Good luck, I think you're going to need it.


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## BlueCalcite (Jul 15, 2013)

smallsteps said:


> There's not?? Really, you sure about that? That's not what my lawyer told me. It's lifetime alimony. I may also be eligible for rehabilitative alimony for a few years because I was a sahm.


It seems that it IS currently still lifetime, but there is a movement underway trying to change it:

Home Page - New Jersey Alimony Reform


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Its only hateful advice when it isnt what you want to hear. You need to see it for what it is, which is HONEST.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

BlueCalcite said:


> It seems that it IS currently still lifetime, but there is a movement underway trying to change it:
> 
> Home Page - New Jersey Alimony Reform


That's exactly right BC


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

confused in NJ said:


> We decided not to get lawyers involved so i think im doimg.just fine. Thanks anyway....but if i wanted hateful advice by people who got burned and are bitter....ill go to the local pub.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


CNJ,

Happily married here. I'm not bitter and never been burned. I'm not a NJ lawyer, so I cannot give you legal advice in NJ. Smallsteps definitely knows more about NJ alimony law than I. 

What you have told us is that you have 50% custody of your kid, you want to be able to keep the kid in your house for several more years. And that you have been funding your W and kid in your old home to the tune of half your income for the past 2 years. That is over an above what you would normally be required to pay. You don't want a divorce. Your W had an EA (which may have gone to PA - you have no idea), is cold and has no interest in reconciling with you. Your W doesn't have a full time job. The W doesn't want you to stop paying but either way doesn't want to keep the house that you built. You do.

You continue to go over and above the call for her; to pay more than what you are obligated to pay and yet after 2 years she doesn't care and doesn't appreciate it. 

Give her what she wants. Let her be on her own. Let her make her way without your assistance. Your obligations now are to you and to your child...not the W! She fired you! 2 years ago.

The W is telling you she is not interested in working or keeping up the home or the payments. She is offering for you to take over those and move out to her own place. You have told us that you want to keep the home for you and for your child. THEN DO IT! 

How good would you feel to be in your own home and sharing that with your kid? 

Let the W make her own way. It is what she wants!


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

confused in NJ said:


> Here’s the problem…I’m way too nice of a guy and too good of a father. I actually feel a little guilty about getting the house. I feel a little guilty about my STBX having to start over with nothing. She never had a career to speak of and at 43 she would for the first time be on her own. I know that she should have thought this all out and planned better when she decided she didn’t want to be married anymore…2 yrs ago….but I can’t help wanting to help her out.
> 
> *OP, I don't see this as being a nice guy. I see this as being self destructive. It is not that you shouldn't be concerned for your STBXW, but SHE is the one who decided SHE does not want you to support her anymore. SHE made the choice, not you. What you are now doing is setting an example to your kids that a mans role is to be used, disrespected and coerced into by the woman. Is that really how you want your kids to view marriage? When your 9 year old grows up, get married and has her own EA - her H doesn't coddle her and she comes running to you "oh daddy, why isn't he paying all my bills? You did that for mom even though she treated you like sh$t - why isn't my H going to give me a house, I didn't do anything wrong - did I"?This really has nothing to do with you being a nice guy. This has everything to do with you not being able to set boundaries for yourself, and this is what you are teaching your kids. Your wife decided she does not want to be married. She is very well aware of the fact that she can't make the money you do. It is not stopping her from moving forward. Let her do this. Let her go - as she wants- and to be on her own, make her own choices and live with her own consequences. *
> 
> ...






confused in NJ said:


> We decided not to get lawyers involved so i think im doimg.just fine. Thanks anyway....but if i wanted hateful advice by people who got burned and are bitter....ill go to the local pub.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP, who's idea was it not to have lawyers? I bet it was hers and YOU agreed to it. Of course she doesn't want you to get an attorney, she knows she would loose everything. See OP, she does not see you as a nice guy. She sees you as weak and easily manipulative. She does not respect you. That is why she left you. I am sorry if these words are hurtful, but I do think you are the only one that views you as "nice". Now I am sure you are nice, but there is a difference between nice and gullible, and I do think you are conjoining the two. I am sorry to say this but your wife will never come back to you so long as she can manipulate and coerce you into doing what she wants. Because a man that is willing to be treated this way, a woman will not respect or sexually desire.

You started this post with "I feel like a sucker....what can I do?
OP I think you just really wanted to be validated that what you were doing was good. Well, that didn't happen and now you are not OK with the truth. Like I said, sorry, hope you can turn this around before it is too late.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

I am concerned about your daughter. I like you staying with the daughter in the house. Your wife is not making sense and you have been gone. You do not know for sure that she does not have someone else that you might not like around your daughter.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

confused in NJ said:


> The fact is there's no such thing as a lifetime alimony anymore in New Jersey. Haven't been for a long time.


It appears you are mistaken, and that's quite a blunder on your part. 



confused in NJ said:


> And for the record.i have gotten legal advice and my situation isnt as bad as u all make it seem.


You got legal advice and the person told you incorrectly that there's no more lifetime alimony in NJ? Legal advice doesn't count when it comes from a helpful friend or relative- you can consider it but don't accept it as face. Even attorneys can get it wrong. 



confused in NJ said:


> We decided not to get lawyers involved so i think im doimg.just fine.


Your second big mistake.

As I understand it, you will be subject to alimoney for LIFE, even if the reform kicks in subsequently it probably won't change prior support awards, so you will be stuck for the rest of your life. However, it's also my understanding that if she has an affair, then you would be off the hook for support. You've got an "out" from a miserable lifelong commitment and you're not going to take it. Because the two of you have happily and mutually agreed to do this without lawyers and you think you're doing just fine. She might be clueless, or she might be playing you like a fish, having already consulted with a lawyer or at least spoken to knowledgeable friends, knowing she's at risk for losing lifelong income if you play this correctly.



confused in NJ said:


> Thanks anyway....but if i wanted hateful advice by people who got burned and are bitter....ill go to the local pub.


I went through a long, expensive, emotionally draining divorce. Got through it ok, and I'm moving on with my life. Spousal support payments just ended last month, another chapter closed. Yes, I'm a bit bitter about such matters, and posting here does help me vent and continue to heal.

That much being said..You've gotten some great advice on this thread from several posters. I think you're driving straight towards a brick wall with a big ignorant grin on your face thinking there's nothing waiting for you but the open road.


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