# Need Help



## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Let me start off with that I have been married for 18 years. It has not been a big bunch of roses during all that time. I am the father of 3 and just turned 40. I was not happy with my marriage after the first couple of years and pretty much tried to make it implode. My wife and I did finally split up and but I came to my senses and pulled my head out of my butt. We came to some agreements and I promised her I would do my best to be the man she deserved. This was over 6 years ago, I am not saying I have been perfect but honest, faithful and loving I have done.

Now I have found out that my wife has been carrying on a sexual relationship for the last 2 years with a co worker. Which did take me by surprise to say the least. I don't know what to do now or where to turn. I feel like when I was an ass she tried everything to make me happy, then when I reversed and wanted to do right by her and our family she went off the deep end. 

I don't know if this can be repaired. How do you get the images out of your mind of the women you love being someone else's booty call? She stated she had no feeling for the OM but it was just easy and an escape from what was her life. I do love her more than I can relate in words but I also feel disgust from what she has done and how little respect she has had for our family. She had this OM in our home in our sons bed and a few other places I am sure she has not totally admitted to. My first instinct was to go straight for the D but after thinking about it she is still the person who I want to grow old with. My W says this was the worst mistake of her life and wishes she could take it all back, but she has lied to me so much it is hard to believe her now.

If anyone knows how to get me past this, I would forever be in your debt. It has been 3 weeks since I found out about the affair but it doesn't seem to be letting up at all. I keep thinking about it and seeing it over and over in my mind.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

IMO you should reconsider divorce.

2year long affair and in your house, on your bed..., that's a little hard to get over, if at all possible.

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

It's hard to call something a misstake that they kept doing over and over again for two years.:scratchhead:

Did she stop this misstake before or after being found out?


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## Steve_T (Jul 2, 2012)

Hard stuff bro. That's going to be really hard to deal with and you're a hell of a man if you can figure out how to work that out.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> Let me start off with that I have been married for 18 years. It has not been a big bunch of roses during all that time. I am the father of 3 and just turned 40. I was not happy with my marriage after the first couple of years and pretty much tried to make it implode. My wife and I did finally split up and but I came to my senses and pulled my head out of my butt. We came to some agreements and I promised her I would do my best to be the man she deserved. This was over 6 years ago, I am not saying I have been perfect but honest, faithful and loving I have done.
> 
> Now I have found out that my wife has been carrying on a sexual relationship for the last 2 years with a co worker. Which did take me by surprise to say the least. I don't know what to do now or where to turn. I feel like when I was an ass she tried everything to make me happy, then when I reversed and wanted to do right by her and our family she went off the deep end.
> 
> ...


She had this man in your home...in your SON'S bed??? Ok, bad enough to have him in your bed... but in your SON'S???? EWWWW OMG!


And the other thing.... Mistake? No, a mistake isn't done over and over and over again. She made a conscious decision to deceive you. For two YEARS. That wasn't a mistake. That's b.s.

I don't know what I would do after finding out my spouse was having sex with someone else in my own home, for two years, all the while pretending nothing was going on. Oh, yes I do... I would divorce.

Damn... back to the son's bed. WTF was she thinking?? That is... ugh... absolutely disgusting!


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

ShootMePlz! said:


> It's hard to call something a misstake that they kept doing over and over again for two years.:scratchhead:
> 
> Did she stop this misstake before or after being found out?


She had stopped the affair about 5-6 months before I found out supposedly. The person who told me about it also referenced some others that she had been with also but my wife adamantly denies this and states that she has nothing more to lose by not being honest at this point.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Steve_T said:


> Hard stuff bro. That's going to be really hard to deal with and you're a hell of a man if you can figure out how to work that out.


I love her. When I think about the way I acted all of those years ago, I think I am getting what I deserved. My wife till this day thinks I was cheating on her when I would go out but I was just not wanting to be at home. I look back at how stupid I was but I am sure in her mind she has always thought it was worse than it actually was.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> She had stopped the affair about 5-6 months before I found out supposedly. The person who told me about it also referenced some others that she had been with also but my wife adamantly denies this and states that she has nothing more to lose by not being honest at this point.


Did the person who told you gave you any proofs? Seems like if she/he knew about the coworker affair from 5-6 months ago I'm sure his/her claim of others are true as well.

Did you check your wife's emails and call/text logs to verify it yourself? If she has a smartphone you might be able read old/deleted texts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LOSTfan (Jun 12, 2012)

Uh yes she does. Right now you're still talking with her. So she hasn't lost you yet. She doesn't know if more is revealed if that maybe finally finishes it off.... she had sex in your sons bed? Oh yea, she's very capable of being with others, in fact, id say its a certainty. Tell her to take a polygraph.

Her sons bed???? I just can't get over this one. She doesn't respect you or her family, in fact she downright humiliated your family. Kick her ass out and tell her she better get counseling if she wants to have any custody.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LOSTfan (Jun 12, 2012)

Keko, how do you read a deleted text?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

It doesn't matter what other people think or what their dealbreakers are...if you want to save your marriage then you're going to have to require that your wife:

1. Quit her job and go No Contact with OM
2. She needs to send him a NC letter stating that the affair was wrong and she is committed to the M and he must never contact her again
3. Transparency -give you all her passwords, email, cell, FB, etc.
4. MC and IC
5. True remorse, full disclosure and she also needs to accept responsibility for her decision to have an affair - no blame shifting onto you. You own 50% of the M problems. She owns the A 100% without rug sweeping.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

LOSTfan said:


> Keko, how do you read a deleted text?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For example on iPhone you would sync the phone to a computer then open up the backup fils folder and read the texts, deleted or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LOSTfan (Jun 12, 2012)

What about droid phones
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

LOSTfan said:


> What about droid phones
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can't recall it off the top my head but does it have a SIM/memory card? You might be able extract them through those. Just google the model number then recover texts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Zanna said:


> It doesn't matter what other people think or what their dealbreakers are...if you want to save your marriage then you're going to have to require that your wife:
> 
> 1. Quit her job and go No Contact with OM
> 2. She needs to send him a NC letter stating that the affair was wrong and she is committed to the M and he must never contact her again
> ...


He needs to verify he has the full story and there are no more guys before jumping into reconciliation/healing wagon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

She does have an I phone but was constantly deleting her texts at the time saying it slowed her phone down if it got to full. I was so stupid, I actually work in IT and know better but I didn't put it all together.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

keko said:


> He needs to verify he has the full story and there are no more guys before jumping into reconciliation/healing wagon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed but it sounds like he's set on R.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> She does have an I phone but was constantly deleting her texts at the time saying it slowed her phone down if it got to full. I was so stupid, I actually work in IT and know better but I didn't put it all together.


Perfect, do you know if she ever connected it to a computer?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

keko said:


> Perfect, do you know if she ever connected it to a computer?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes she would download music to her phone all the time.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> Yes she would download music to her phone all the time.


Follow this link on the computer she uses. http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/community-features/message-board/4-discovering-the-truth/44314-way-to-retrieve-deleted-text-messages-from-iphone.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Just to add, I don't know which time zone you're in but if it's night time I don't think you should read her texts. You'll lose your sleep and be in rage guaranteed. Just print them out in the morning and read them outside of the house/away from her.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Zanna said:


> Agreed but it sounds like he's set on R.


I wouldn't say that I am set on R but I am not ready for D yet either. I am moving into a apartment this week. My wife has tried being here for me through this and has been there for all my 1000's of questions. I feel like someone has ripped me in half.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

You need to verify that the affair has stopped. 2 years is a long time for the OM to "mean nothing". There's been more than one case on here of a WS claiming to have ended a long term affair cold turkey, only for the betrayed spouse to find out the affair is still ongoing.

From the looks of it, it looks like you're going down the reconciliation route and you're willing to swallow the poison because of your past misdeeds in the marriage. While that's fine, expect a lot of trickle truthing and don't discount the prospect of other men, because at this stage, I'd take the word of the whistleblower rather than your wife's.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Complexity said:


> You need to verify that the affair has stopped. 2 years is a long time for the OM to "mean nothing". There's been more than one case on here of a WS claiming to have ended a long term affair cold turkey, only for the betrayed spouse to find out the affair is still ongoing.
> 
> From the looks of it, it looks like you're going down the reconciliation route and you're willing to swallow the poison because of your past misdeeds in the marriage. While that's fine, expect a lot of trickle truthing and don't discount the prospect of other men, because at this stage, I'd take the word of the whistleblower rather than your wife's.


I agree with what you are saying. I would like for the record that the Whistle blower was the women who was in a LTR with the OM. He is a real piece of work, I guess he wanted to see how many teachers he could nail at the school.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> I agree with what you are saying. I would like for the record that the Whistle blower was the women who was in a LTR with the OM. He is a real piece of work, I guess he wanted to see how many teachers he could nail at the school.


There's a user here who's wife is also a teacher and was involved in a 3 year long term affair. After he decided to reconcile, and she swore up&down that the OM meant nothing, that she was remorseful etc, he put a VAR in her car and heard the both of them talking.She was saying how she's in love with the OM and couldn't wait to see him tonight....

I'm not alluding that the same thing will happen with your wife, but just don't be gullible to the words of someone who's lived a double life for the past 2 years. At this stage I suggest asking the OM's partner if she has any evidence or if she could direct you to the people who've made these claims.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

I just wish I knew the why. I also wish all spouses would think about their actions and what it does to your family. I cant think of any amount sexual hottness would be worth devistating ones family. It's 2 am here and I can't get this out of my head.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Don't push for R just yet, a common mistake one too many BS make thus essentially rugsweeping the entire incident and allowing the WS to take it underground, and if she has not confessed be assured that the chances of her being remorseful , thus bringing up the affair for discussion would be zilch.

Have you confronted her yet or are you keeping all this to yourself?


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

We have talked a lot about this over the last week. When I first found out I grabbed the kids and we took a long over due vacation. She is admitting things semi openly. I know she is still be gaurded but who wouldn't at this point.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> She had stopped the affair about 5-6 months before I found out supposedly. The person who told me about it also referenced some others that she had been with also but my wife adamantly denies this and states that she has nothing more to lose by not being honest at this point.


Yeah right. Remember the lies for 2 years. Don't believe a word. Only trust stuff you can verify.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> I love her. When I think about the way I acted all of those years ago, I think I am getting what I deserved. My wife till this day thinks I was cheating on her when I would go out but I was just not wanting to be at home. I look back at how stupid I was but I am sure in her mind she has always thought it was worse than it actually was.


That is her justification for what she did. Not necessarily the truth. She should have confronted if she thought you were cheating on her. What kind of marriage is it when both parties are cheating on one another.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> She does have an I phone but was constantly deleting her texts at the time saying it slowed her phone down if it got to full. I was so stupid, I actually work in IT and know better but I didn't put it all together.


Recover them now.(You know how, right?) Get access to all her email and social networking accounts and modify passwords so that she wouldn't have access to them. Who is this co worker? Is he married?


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

You know why they're being defensive? Because they still think they can get away with it with minimum damage to themselves. Don't enable this. You need to either entice her into opening up completely or you need to bully them into doing this, I took the latter route and I can tell you its usually the best route. Remove yourself as an option and watch her defensive shields crack under the pressure of her own lies

And the bat is right, trust stuff you can verify.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

She has given me access to everything she has email, phone, and FB. I am not sure what to do with all of this. Is it good enough that she is willing to be this open with me? I am very confused.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> I am moving into a apartment this week.


Why you?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> She has given me access to everything she has email, phone, and FB. I am not sure what to do with all of this. Is it good enough that she is willing to be this open with me? I am very confused.


Not really, how was she contacting her affair partner(s) before?


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

TBT said:


> Why you?


I feel like I need to leave because of what she did in our house. I cant even walk by my sons room without feeling so ill I want to vomit.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

keko said:


> Not really, how was she contacting her affair partner(s) before?


She contacted him by text or mostly he contacted her. This person was in a relationship with one of my wifes friends"unknown to her". The terd as I refer to him is part of the school administration and was dateing teachers on the down low.

She keeps saying it was only sex and no emotions that she never would have left me for him. I honestly don't know if that is better or not. I said it before the women I put on pedistal was another mans booty call.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> I feel like I need to leave because of what she did in our house. I cant even walk by my sons room without feeling so ill I want to vomit.


Sorry man,I should have realized that.It's really terrible the price that betrayed spouses have to pay when the cheaters screw them over.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> *She keeps saying it was only sex and no emotions that she never would have left me for him.* I honestly don't know if that is better or not. I said it before the women I put on pedistal was another mans booty call.


My WW said the same thing to me.

Jesus dude, wake up.

She's playing you like a fiddle.

You're letting your emotions get the best of you and if your'e not
careful, it will derail any hopes of you retaining sanity for the rest of your life.

*Stop attending to her needs.* *Stop*. Right now.
Until you get the truth from her... ALL OF IT... she is your worst enemy. 

Second, don't move out!!! If it's bothering you that bad, lock up your kids room if you must.
Have them sleep elsewhere until you have time and money
to redecorate/re-paint the room. I'd even buy a new bed, but that's just me...

All the info you need to move forward is here in this forum for you to read,
but I get the impression from your posts that you're not ready
to take the proper steps to protect yourself, your kids and your future. This needs to stop.

Play hardball.. hide your pain if you must...


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> She contacted him by text or mostly he contacted her. This person was in a relationship with one of my wifes friends"unknown to her". The terd as I refer to him is part of the school administration and was dateing teachers on the down low.
> 
> She keeps saying it was only sex and no emotions that she never would have left me for him. I honestly don't know if that is better or not. I said it before the women I put on pedistal was another mans booty call.


Have you read the content of her texts? Did you rule out any other involved parties?


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

I wanted to also say...

I know from experience (link in signature) how this goes.

Your brain right now is pumping out the ideas, thoughts, pain,
scenarios, possibilities, options, etc. all at once.

It's a snowstorm of negativity and fear all at once.

One minute you're worried about where you'll live, the next, you're
getting slammed with mind movies of the WS and the OP.
Then things die down, and you want to be close with the very
person that stabbed you in the back.

It a vicious, vicious cycle that must take its course in order
for you to heal. NOT in order for you guys to be together. For YOU to HEAL. 

You need to be strong for you kids and worry about yourself.
Let her go. Cut her loose emotionally. She's NOT who you married.
You didn't sign up to be married to someone who would disrespect you like this.

*Allow* yourself to be angry... and then make something positive out of it. 

This will slowly get you to a point where you can more clearly and also take the next logical step.

*Forgiving your WW before you even get the full story/truth from her is just enabling her hurtful and disrespectful behavior.
*
If you're not careful, it will destroy you from the inside out.

Don't be the victim. Get empowered... however you can.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Good post CTS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

I already feel like the victim. I know I am stupid for even thinking of R at this point. I have never let anyone be this close to me, she was my one and only.


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## crossbar (Aug 25, 2011)

Heartbroke said:


> I love her.* When I think about the way I acted all of those years ago, I think I am getting what I deserved. *My wife till this day thinks I was cheating on her when I would go out but I was just not wanting to be at home. I look back at how stupid I was but I am sure in her mind she has always thought it was worse than it actually was.


NO! You are NOT getting "what you deserve". No one deserves to be cheated on. peroid! Look, you can take the blame for 50% of the problems in the marriage prior to the affair and she can own up to the other 50%. But her affair is 100% on her! That was a choice that SHE made. Not you. She made a choice to have an affair, no one held a gun to her head. She willingly persued sleeping with this guy for years and I'm pretty sure you didn't ask her to do that. So, you didn't deserve it.

What you did deserve was your wife sitting you down and pointing out the fact that you were acting like a total asshat and you to need marriage counseling to fix the marriage or she was leaving. THAT'S what you deserved. Not to make you a cuckold and disrespect you, your children, your marriage and your home!

If this guy is in the schools administration, then he needs to be reported. There's no way that this kind of behavior will be tolerated around children especially if he's in a position of power. He should be enforcing policies, not breaking them. And if he looses his job over it, OH WELL!!! He shouldn't have been sleeping with married teachers! He knows better and so does she! So, if your wife looses her job (which will be unlikely considering that he is her superior) then OH WELL!! Her actions have consquences.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> She keeps saying it was only sex and no emotions that she never would have left me for him. I honestly don't know if that is better or not. I said it before the women I put on pedistal was another mans booty call.


My STBEH said the same thing. Personally, I find that more insulting than if he admitted he fantasized about marrying her. 

I read somewhere that at some point all cheaters have that fantasy about the affair partner due to the affair bubble. 

Also, during one fight he picked over nothing, while seeing the OW-- (we had a small fire in the kitchen and I asked him to help me bring up the heavy items to put in the trash and he went ballistic)--- He asked me for a divorce because I asked him to carry some heavy damaged items to the trash. 

Why was i the one doing the clean up alone?

He also saved some of her clothing, and that seems like it was more than just sexual. 

I agree, I was totally blindsided to find out that my spouse was a cheater. He was cheating with a married serial cheater with four children. 

He now denies ever asking me for a divorce and claims he didn't save the clothing, just didn't know what to do with it and stashed it.

How 'bout the trash? why save something that belongs to a piece of trash he claimed to dump. 

If he was discarding all the the trash why not the clothing, too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Heartbroke said:


> I wouldn't say that I am set on R but I am not ready for D yet either. I am moving into a apartment this week. My wife has tried being here for me through this and has been there for all my 1000's of questions. I feel like someone has ripped me in half.


Try not to leave, ok? Don't be making decisions while you're so full of emotion. Man up and accept that bad things happened in your son's room, burn the mattress, and figure out how to stay there for your kids. Do not move out!


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> . I don't know what to do now or where to turn. I feel like when I was an ass she tried everything to make me happy, then when I reversed and wanted to do right by her and our family she went off the deep end.


That's a surprise? It really shouldn't be. In trying to please your woman due to a heavy guilty heart you've stopped having the traits that made her think you a good mate. Confusing? Yes, maybe, but relationships aren't rational, although they should be interpreted rationally in the third person. You went from an alpha behavior (what you describe as being an ass) to a groveling beta. She lost interest in you when you did this. It doesn't matter the least what she told you she wanted. 

That's just how women go about these things. 




> I don't know if this can be repaired. How do you get the images out of your mind of the women you love being someone else's booty call? She stated she had no feeling for the OM but it was just easy and an escape from what was her life.


Women that cheat always say this because while trying to put themselves on our shoes that's what they would be wanting to hear. They don't seem to realize that for a proud male that particular sounbyte is, at best, useless and, at worst, completely infuriating. 

It's up to you. You need to dig deep and decide if you want to get back together or you need that D. Either way you can rely on the guys and gals on this board. they have tons of experience orienting in both situations.

Oh, and about that bit about your kid's bedroom.... Yuuuck, i totally understand your vomit reactions... Holy cow...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Now, as to what to do? First, check all her phones/computers/etc. You now have access..USE IT. Find out if she's telling the truth. You need that first.

Second, she has to write OM a No Contact letter. She'll sputter and repeat he was just a booty call. Big deal. She has to be kissing up to YOU right now and right now YOU need her to do the mental shutdown/humility of writing him a No Contact letter, which YOU will approve and mail to him. If she's not willing to do this, tell her you will file for divorce. But you aren't moving out of the house, so she'd better start making plans.

I know this sounds harsh, but I've been doing this for more than 10 years and advising thousands of men in your shoes. If you don't take a hard, strong approach now - you will lose whatever little respect she has left for you, for GOOD. 

"Make it up to me, or get out." That's what she needs to hear. That's what she WANTS to hear, even if she doesn't realize it. She NEEDS to see you mad as hell and unwilling to accept crumbs. She screwed up big time and, while you won't hold this over her head for the rest of her life, you WILL expect her to do a LOT of heavy lifting for the next couple years, as you adjust to this new reality. If she's unwilling to be in that position, then you know you've been used. You need to know this now.

Now, since you have conflicting stories as to her number of conquests, you will need to schedule a polygraph for her to take. If she's not willing, then you are still second string for her. Another reason to inform her you will file for divorce.

PLEASE don't act out of fear here. Be strong, show her your strength as well as your willingness to give her a second chance.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Yes we have 3 children but I feel like the man part of me has been beaten and driven into a corner. My first requirment on a new place was did it have enough room for my children. I will not be a weekend warrior dad. I am going to go for 50/50 custody if comes down to that. I am just as capable if not more to take care of the children.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So you're just giving up already?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> So you're just giving up already?


Already? He's been living a lie for past 2+ years....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

keko said:


> Already? He's been living a lie for past 2+ years....


But he only found out about it 3 weeks ago, right?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> But he only found out about it 3 weeks ago, right?


Yes but can he bring back the time whether its 3 weeks or 2 years? Life is short, why waste it on giving a second chance to a cheap skank?


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Heartbroke said:


> She keeps saying it was only sex and no emotions that she never would have left me for him. I honestly don't know if that is better or not. I said it before the women I put on pedistal was another mans booty call.


Ask her if its ok for you to now go screw other women as long as you don't get emotionally attached.

Go file for a D now to get the ball rolling. Most states give you a "cool off" time so you can change your mind later but considering what your wife did I would go through with it. Being that pulled the wool over your eyes to bang a guy for 2 years you can't simpy "reward" her by an R. It will be hard to live with yoursefl if you did.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That isn't what matters. What matters is that he not make a major decision while in the midst of deep, confusing emotion. There is PLENTY of time to decide to divorce, and a BS will go through a mountain of flipflopping emotions over the next few months. 

keko, we know your stance on cheaters, but it would be nice to hear it with a bit more respect for the BH's feelings. Many marriages survive infidelity. Will his? Who knows? But just punching home that 'kick the skank to the road' mantra over and over again doesn't help a BS make valid decisions. He needs to do what works for him and HIS life, not what makes YOU feel good. Give him some breathing room, ok?


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> That isn't what matters. What matters is that he not make a major decision while in the midst of deep, confusing emotion.


Divorce process can be stopped at any time can't it? It's not like he is having her stoned to death...



> Many marriages survive infidelity.


Actually you'll find that the number is really far from "many" and most of the times it's fake for the sake of the kids. A marriage soiled by cheating is never the same. 

And contrary to most guys here i've never been cheated on as far as i know. So it's not like i'm traumatized by it or something. Doing a quick check on the threads in here will tell you what you need to know. The amount of people that end up in a semi-functional marriage after an event like this is tiny. And most R attempts result further pain and eventual annulment of pride and self worth. 

It just trendy these days to advise people to forgive cheating. The thing is, this actually rewards cheating. It's the very reason why cheating is rampant these days. There is next to no penalty for cheating and daft lawmakers made it so that in most western countries the cheaters are left with half the economic assets. And, if the cheater i a woman she even gets the kids too 9/10 times.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Horrible story.
Sorry.

What are your plans now, Heartbroke?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> I love her. When I think about the way I acted all of those years ago, I think I am getting what I deserved. My wife till this day thinks I was cheating on her when I would go out but I was just not wanting to be at home. I look back at how stupid I was but I am sure in her mind she has always thought it was worse than it actually was.


Nothing, I repeat *NOTHING* merits being cheated on. It does not MATTER whether she thinks you were cheating or not. The fact is, she made the conscious choice to cheat on you. You do NOT deserve to be treated like this. And, had you cheated on her in the past, I would STILL say you don't deserve this. No one deserves it.



Heartbroke said:


> my wife has been carrying on a sexual relationship for the last 2 years with a co worker. Which did take me by surprise to say the least. I don't know what to do now or where to turn. I feel like when I was an ass she tried everything to make me happy, then when I reversed and wanted to do right by her and our family she went off the deep end.
> 
> I don't know if this can be repaired. How do you get the images out of your mind of the women you love being someone else's booty call? She stated she had no feeling for the OM but it was just easy and an escape from what was her life. I do love her more than I can relate in words but I also feel disgust from what she has done and how little respect she has had for our family.


Whether this can be repaired or not, I can't say. She says she had no feelings for him. Honestly, I find that hard to swallow. A 2 year long affair and she felt nothing for this man? I don't buy it.



costa200 said:


> That's a surprise? It really shouldn't be. In trying to please your woman due to a heavy guilty heart you've stopped having the traits that made her think you a good mate. Confusing? Yes, maybe, but relationships aren't rational, although they should be interpreted rationally in the third person. You went from an alpha behavior (what you describe as being an ass) to a groveling beta. She lost interest in you when you did this. It doesn't matter the least what she told you she wanted.
> 
> That's just how women go about these things.


He said he was being an ass because he was going out, doing what he wanted, when he wanted, without caring what she felt. THAT is what he feels he is being "paid back" for. It isn't about alpha and beta in that respect. They separated because of his behavior, and got back together because HE recognize that the behavior was wrong. 

Please stop assuming all women lose interest when men act as the OP did. Never once was it stated that he was groveling. You made an assumption, based on how he is feeling now, and how he is wording what happened.




> *Women that cheat always say this because while trying to put themselves on our shoes that's what they would be wanting to hear. *They don't seem to realize that for a proud male that particular sounbyte is, at best, useless and, at worst, completely infuriating.


Untrue, again. When I confessed my EA to my husband, I told him that I had feelings for the OM. He knew we were "friends" because he was the one who introduced us (online). He knew there was some kind of feeling as we were all friends at one point. And, when I confessed the EA, I confessed to the feelings. I didn't hide it from him. Tbh, HE tried to deny feelings for HIS OW. It's not all cut and dry, gender specific... It's CHEATER specific. Yes, there is a script they/we follow. Some deviate slightly. However, men do this just as often as women.


> Oh, and about that bit about your kid's bedroom.... Yuuuck, i totally understand your vomit reactions... Holy cow...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

costa200 said:


> A marriage soiled by cheating is never the same.


You're right. It's often far better, because the two learn to never take each other for granted again, and they learn to use better coping skills and respect each other. And I DO know lots of marriages who have survived - and thrived - past affairs. More than divorces, actually.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

costa200 said:


> It just trendy these days to advise people to forgive cheating. The thing is, this actually rewards cheating.


That's ridiculous AND simplistic.

Betrayed spouses who stay almost NEVER forgive cheating. They come up with a solution that DEALS with it and incorporates the knowledge of it into a better relationship.

And to say that a BS is _rewarding_ a cheater by not divorcing is not looking closely at what really goes on in such a marriage. 

Do some BS's just let the spouse sweep rugs so as to not divorce? Of course. But so do many spouses in marriages where there IS no cheating.

Bottom line, to say that one must immediately ditch a cheating spouse because they are damaged goods is hypocritical at best.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> I already feel like the victim. I know I am stupid for even thinking of R at this point. I have never let anyone be this close to me, she was my one and only.


Hey man, that's fine if inside of your gut, you're leaning towards R. There's nothing wrong with that.

What can be dangerous for you though is spilling your guts out for your
WS, when SHE should be who does that for YOU... out of
respect for your marriage together, as well as for your feelings as a human being. 

*You don't owe her sh!t*... not anymore. Repeat that to yourself until you believe it. 

It's been said many times here, but you have to be prepared to lose your marriage in order to save it. 
From some of your past posts, I can tell you haven't faced your marriage in that light yet.

The sooner you do, the better off you'll be and the closer you will
find yourself to being healed over the course of time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You DO have to be prepared to lose your marriage to save it. Never make decisions just TO save it. Make decisions based on what you know you need in your life - love, trust, morals, etc. If what she did can be made up for and she can prove she's hit bottom and come out the other side a changed person with a new understanding of what love, trust and morals look like...maybe. 

Regardless, you don't need to make any decisions right now. Give it time. Work on yourself and getting yourself together. Ignore her for now and see how you feel in a while. Let her see what life without you is like. And see what you need. If you read other threads, you'll see a lot of BHs who flipflop all over the place, and you'll see them reach that point, where they finally realize what it is they need.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

turnera said:


> You're right. It's often far better, because the two learn to never take each other for granted again, and they learn to use better coping skills and respect each other. And I DO know lots of marriages who have survived - and thrived - past affairs. More than divorces, actually.


I don't agree with this at all, not all marriages go on to become stronger. I was reading an article recently about a wayward wife's husband who constantly held the cheating over her head and shamed her in front of the children, five years after the cheating took place.

To say that all marriages become better is laughable at best. It all comes down to whether the people can deal with the core issues in the marriage and whether people can look past the destruction, if someone were to not be able to forgive a divorce would be the best option

Its wrong to think that infidelity is a launching pad for a thriving marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Uh, I said OFTEN. Not 'all.'

And I also said it's the marriages where they decide to WORK on the marriage, not just stay in the same house and hate each other. 

Big difference.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> That isn't what matters. What matters is that he not make a major decision while in the midst of deep, confusing emotion. There is PLENTY of time to decide to divorce, and a BS will go through a mountain of flipflopping emotions over the next few months.
> 
> keko, we know your stance on cheaters, but it would be nice to hear it with a bit more respect for the BH's feelings. Many marriages survive infidelity. Will his? Who knows? But just punching home that 'kick the skank to the road' mantra over and over again doesn't help a BS make valid decisions. He needs to do what works for him and HIS life, not what makes YOU feel good. Give him some breathing room, ok?


How is repeating that mantra over and over again to the BS of serial cheaters and/or LTA'ers bad for their feelings? Don't you see it as a way to actually open their eyes(to the fact that they've been cuckolded/humiliated big time), instead take your time you have ALL the time in the world crap?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> The good news for couples is that all of the therapists interviewed for this article agree healing is possible and a partnership can survive infidelity. Some note that a partnership can work only if the unfaithful partner ends the affair. Others venture to say that a postinfidelity partnership can be healthier than prior to the indiscretion.
> Through Imago Relationship Therapy, the partnership “will be 10 times better than it was before,” says Kollman, and will be characterized by “deeper, richer understanding; commitment; and a deeper humility about what it means to be a human being on this planet and be in a relationship.”


Surviving Infidelity â€” Couples Therapistsâ€™ Best Practices


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

keko said:


> How is repeating that mantra over and over again to the BS of serial cheaters and/or LTA'ers bad for their feelings? Don't you see it as a way to actually open their eyes(to the fact that they've been cuckolded/humiliated big time), instead take your time you have ALL the time in the world crap?


I was speaking of the WAY you address them. As in, you're a stupid idiot if you consider staying' kind of talk.

Someone can divorce in 6 months just as easily as in 1 month.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

All said and done there are only survivors, each one has to deal with his/her own issues in the end. Be it anger,agony or apathy


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> I was speaking of the WAY you address them. As in, you're a stupid idiot if you consider staying' kind of talk.
> 
> Someone can divorce in 6 months just as easily as in 1 month.


You mean straight to the point rather than twisting the words.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

anonymouskitty said:


> Its wrong to think that infidelity is a launching pad for a thriving marriage.


I agree. That type of statement is absolutely ludicrous. 

A marriage tainted by an affair may survive but it is never a better marriage. 

If their are improvements they typically benefit the cheater more, too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You mean rude and humiliating, rather than suggesting we can't throw stones.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> I agree. That type of statement is absolutely ludicrous.
> 
> A marriage tainted by an affair may survive but it is never a better marriage.
> 
> If their are improvements they typically benefit the cheater more, too.


 Not according to professionals who actually deal with these people. Not necessarily. Will there be people too tainted to make a marriage work? Of course. But that happens without infidelity in the mix. 

To say that, once a partner cheats they should be thrown away is a grave kneejerk reaction. Some of the best, smartest, most helpful people I've ever met in my life are former cheaters, who DID learn from their mistakes and moved heaven and earth to make up for them.


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## cantthinkstraight (May 6, 2012)

File for divorce. Tell her you'll be bringing home dinner for her.. then drop the papers in front of her.

Maybe THAT will get her to give you the truth.

Sometimes, that's what it takes.

How far are you willing to go to save yourself and your marriage?
That really is the question.

It's a sad reality, but now all of it is on *you*.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> You mean rude and humiliating, rather than suggesting we can't throw stones.


Rude and humiliating? Than what about his wife screwing another man, in his house for 2 years?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Many marriages survive infidelity. Will his? Who knows? But just punching home that 'kick the skank to the road' mantra over and over again doesn't help a BS make valid decisions. He needs to do what works for him and HIS life, not what makes YOU feel good. Give him some breathing room, ok?


Hmmm! Where does that claim come from the one that says many marriages survive infidelity. 

If you don't D immediately is that counted as a survival 

And, where is the Hall of records keeping track of those that survive. 

Talk to Divorce attorneys you will see that at the root of the majority of D filings is an affair past or present. 

Very few marriages can survive an EA/Pa. 

Some people stay in the marriage until they can afford to leave or until the kids are grown and then file for D.

Is that one counted as surviving an affair?

Once trust is broken in such a humiliating deceptive way, few people can get past it without residual resentment. 

It's the lack of trust, the fact that your spouse willingly exposed you to Hiv or any other STD, spent marital assets on ho, lied to your face, spent time with a Ho instead of you, maybe said I love you to a ho, all so he or she could get a momentary sexual thrill.

BTW the term HO, imo, applies to both men and women who cheat


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

turnera said:


> You're right. It's often far better, because the two learn to never take each other for granted again, and they learn to use better coping skills and respect each other. And I DO know lots of marriages who have survived - and thrived - past affairs. More than divorces, actually.


Yes, very true. We need to cheat on each other to have a better marriage. :scratchhead:


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Turnera, the marriage may be better but it'll be like a broken vase thats been glued, you'll always be able to spot the cracks left once you've put it back together. Thats the only reason why you'll want to protect it, because now you know that its so easily shattered. Those scars remain for life. Some people accept it and move on some don't, matter of personal choice really


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Some of the best, smartest, most helpful people I've ever met in my life are former cheaters, who DID learn from their mistakes and moved heaven and earth to make up for them.


Uhm, really. 

Got hard proof of that claim? 

And, by hard proof I don't mean the claims from MCs who totally lack follow through once the MC ends.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Surviving Infidelity — Couples Therapists’ Best Practices


There is no follow through with these couples. 

If the betrayed spouse is an economic slave to the cheater and divorces ten years later after going back to school to be an attorney, is that counted as surviving infidelity?

Come on.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

I don't see how they were smart, when they were dumb enough to get into the bloody situation in the first place


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> Uhm, really.
> 
> Got hard proof of that claim?
> 
> And, by hard proof I don't mean the claims from MCs who totally lack follow through once the MC ends.


 I could provide names of all the people, but I have more respect for them than to do that just to satisfy you.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> Please stop assuming all women lose interest when men act as the OP did. Never once was it stated that he was groveling. You made an assumption, based on how he is feeling now, and how he is wording what happened.


Yes, you have pretty words... Yet, the guy is here and so are tons of people who supposedly did everything right in the way of putting the effort in their marriages. When he was acting like "an ass" (his words) his wife took him back. When he tried to be a different man he was cheated on. That's the facts right there. All the rest are vain words. 

Like when women say they want their men to behave thus and such and go for the exact opposite.



Maricha75 said:


> Untrue, again. When I confessed my EA to my husband, I told him that I had feelings for the OM. He knew we were "friends" because he was the one who introduced us (online). He knew there was some kind of feeling as we were all friends at one point. And, when I confessed the EA, I confessed to the feelings. I didn't hide it from him. Tbh, HE tried to deny feelings for HIS OW. It's not all cut and dry, gender specific... It's CHEATER specific. Yes, there is a script they/we follow. Some deviate slightly. However, men do this just as often as women.


I never said men don't do this. Don't try to make this into some sort of prejudice against women. But the ways of attraction ARE different, but of course there are many common points. We are all humans after all.



> You're right. It's *often* far better, because the two learn to never take each other for granted again, and they learn to use better coping skills and respect each other. And I DO know *lots *of marriages who have survived - and thrived - past affairs. More than divorces, actually.



You seem to have a problem of quantification. Solution is at hand. Identify individual threads in this forum and honestly classify them honestly as successes of failures in reconciliation. Of the successful big R identify the ones that you can grade as having become stronger due to the cheating. I believe that "often" is... well... an overestimation. I've never known of a marriage that has become better after cheating. In fact, at the moment i'm inclined to think that is just a soundbyte certain marriage counselors use to convince people to ride it out. 

I fail to understand this fixation some people have in being with someone that doesn't show them the most basic amount of respect and LOVE. Yeah that's right, LOVE!!!

What i see a lot is people remaining together to avoid the hassle to move on with their lives. In empty doomed relationships. 

Wishful thinking on your part and too much touchy feely books. Everytime i see that line that cheating makes a marriage stronger i just cringe. The marriage is OVER as soon as the cheating happens. But that's just me. If you can pretend to be happy with someone that you can never fully trust again and hasn't shown you respect in the past, good for you.



> Not according to professionals who actually deal with these people.


You mean the guys who make money on sessions to help that sort of people? Yeah, those guys are really to be trusted.



> How is repeating that mantra over and over again to the BS of serial cheaters and/or LTA'ers bad for their feelings? Don't you see it as a way to actually open their eyes(to the fact that they've been cuckolded/humiliated big time), instead take your time you have ALL the time in the world crap?


Oh it's bad for their "feelings"... Just like when you turn to a friend and say something along the lines "Dude i've just spotted your wife doing the dirty on the parking lot"... Because truth hurts sometimes. I think people should really open their eyes and consider that the best friend is not the one that sugarcoat it for you. It's the friend who will show his loyalty by telling it like it is, even if it hurts you at the moment. 



> To say that, once a partner cheats they should be thrown away is a grave kneejerk reaction.


Why? Why should a faithful person settle for a cheater? What does that particular cheater has that it cannot be found in a faithful person? There are billions of people in this planet. 

Make no mistake about it, if you cheated you better grovel and beg like you're at the gates of heaven because from that moment on your partner may very well decide that there are millions of more suitable partners out there and he would be right. Or do you think every cheater is so special that the offended part has some sort of compulsion to have to sort it out? Heck no. As far as i'm concerned all sorts of infidelity, emotional or physical deserve the boot. 

My partner, who i love dearly, knows this. One slip and it's over. 

Marriage is a choice. Marriage is enjoyable. Nobody will turn it into something i need to reset myself about. Yes, that's right, it's a one strike thing for me.

But apparently some people are different. And that's ok. They can choose to ignore all the situations they will have to face and turn their marriage into something they have to babysit all the time for fear that if they somehow deviate from a certain format their spouse will cheat again. Kudos to them.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Can we please get back to helping the OP with constructive advice?


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

No hard feelings turnera, i just wanted to put things into perspective


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's fine. That's your perspective. And mine is the complete opposite. No one holds the truth for every person.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

turnera said:


> Can we please get back to helping the OP with constructive advice?


:iagree:

Yeah, we're getting sidetracked.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

I thank each and every one of you for your posts. I have gained a lot of knowledge that I will share later when I am not typing from my phone. Talking does help, I kept this inside for three Weeks but have felt the best since I put this out there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Okay I am back at my pc wich is a lot easier to type. I just wanted to give an update. I did follow some the instuctions that where typed here and did look at my wifes messages from her Iphone. I am glad I did. I found out she has was flirting with a guy half her age who lives in our neighborhood. This was going on while I was taking my kids on a vacation to get out of the house, to cool off from finding out about the affair.

Needless to say this was the straw that broke the camels back and I told her I wanted out of this hell and that I was done. I had threatend this before but I think she knew I ment it. I live in S. Florida and my wife has known I wanted to move for a long time but told me if I did move that it would be without her and the kids. After this she told me that she would do whatever it takes to R and will move with me back to where ever I would like. I know this sounds wierd but this was the only thing that she could say that I would even consider.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Use this to your advantage. Move to a county/state where you want to live then after you place the kids in school start the divorce. This will limit her ability to keep the kids in the old city or move to different cities.

Edit: turnera, still believe me calling her a skank is rude and humiliating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> Okay I am back at my pc wich is a lot easier to type. I just wanted to give an update. I did follow some the instuctions that where typed here and did look at my wifes messages from her Iphone. I am glad I did. I found out she has was flirting with a guy half her age who lives in our neighborhood. This was going on while I was taking my kids on a vacation to get out of the house, to cool off from finding out about the affair.
> 
> Needless to say this was the straw that broke the camels back and *I told her I wanted out of this hell and that I was done*. I had threatend this before but I think she knew I ment it. I live in S. Florida and my wife has known I wanted to move for a long time but told me if I did move that it would be without her and the kids. After this she told me that she would do whatever it takes to R and will move with me back to where ever I would like. I know this sounds wierd but this was the only thing that she could say that I would even consider.


Don't get complacent because she threw you a bone. You wife is a serial cheater - she did it before, lied about it to your face, and is doing it again. And she is, yet again, lying to your face about it. Whatever happened to "biggest mistake of my life?" More like, "I'm a slattern with no self control and I can't help myself."

_Don't give her what she wants_. Get yourself to a lawyer, and start the divorce process. She is a *liar*. She doesn't give a fig about _you_, mate. She simply doesn't want to be divorced. She's doesn't want to lose the comfort and security you offer her, and she will play whatever game you want to prove she's a "good wife" and that you can trust her.

But you should know by now that you _can't_. *Divorce*.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

I would never do that, two wrongs will never make a right. I want her sincerity and honesty with me. I do Love her and want this to work as she is the only person I could see ever wanting to grow old with. She is also the mother of the 3 best things in life.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Age wise how close are your 3 best things to her latest guy?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

My oldest is 11


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Did she confess how many affairs she had? Or is she minimizing it and blaming it on you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

keko said:


> Edit: turnera, still believe me calling her a skank is rude and humiliating?


Of course I do.

Nothing gives you free reign to treat people with such disdain and condescension. And it does your intention no good.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> I could provide names of all the people, but I have more respect for them than to do that just to satisfy you.


sigh!

I must be psychic, 'cause I knew you would say that.

In addition, even if you could provide the names and their claimed statements of reconciliation, unless they are dead and stayed married until death did part them, there statements still do not negate the observations of divorce attorneys who say that EVENTUALLY a loyal spouse divorces the cheater.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She's a serial cheater, I hightly doubt you are merely scratching the surface. It started before main OM and doesn't limit to the barely legal neibourgh. What are the chances you came across the whole enchilada? She never provided anything beyond what you got on your own.
If you cool down nad don't file inmedioately tell her you can't stand liers, secrets will kill any chance to win you back, she has to come completely clean. Make her write a timeline of all her transgression since the begginning of your relationship. I feel the cheating started when you wanted out, at least. Tell her she's going to back up the timeline info with a polygraph.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, good for you, Sara. We need more psychics! In the meantime, I have maintained respect for the people I care about by putting their needs above my desire to prove you wrong.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

turnera said:


> Well, good for you, Sara. We need more psychics! In the meantime, I have maintained respect for the people I care about by putting their needs above my desire to prove you wrong.


Did you miss the part where I noted that your claimed reconciliations would be worthless. 

There will always be a small number of reconciliations. 

But will you know for sure how many stayed because the marriage improved or because it was inconvenient to divorce. 

You won't. People lie. Particularly cheaters. That's why they call it cheating. 

Cheaters cheat the loyal spouse out of time, attention, money, ability to trust again, self respect and on and on.

BTW: embarrassed humiliated spouses often lie to friends too, to save face or because they need to convince themselves a lousy marriage has really improved even though it has not.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Heartbroke,

You have received some really good advice and I am glad you looked at her texts.

They are revealing!! Sorry for the 2nd D-Day.

Please read CTS's thread and you will see he is in the same boat as you and look at how he has handled his situation. He has earned many Tammers respect.

Now I know you said you are moving out. But realize that her last escapade with the 20 yearold douch*bag was while you were away on vacation out of the house!!!!!!

Do Not Leave!!!!!!

I know you are hurt but you see how her attitude has changed when you manned up.

You need to take control of your marriage now.

1. You and your wife get tested for std's.
2. The school admin gets exposed to HR.
3. The 20 year old gets a call to his mommy and daddy that his behavior along with your wifes is undermining your family.
4. Go see an attorney without your wifes knowledge so you know your rights.
5. Secure your finances separate from your wifes.
6. If your wife is serious about R she gets IC immediately.
7. If your wife is serious she signs a prenup protecting you and your childrens future.
8. Do not make any other long term decisions untiol all the other items have been completed.
9. Oh yes, she never gets phone, internet privacy ever again and no girls night outs with her toxic teacher pals.

Get on top of this and hopefully your wife straightens out. 

She needs NC policy in place now. And if you are moving file a complaint with the school board. Theu both deserve the grief.

Take care of yourself buddy.

Hm64


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> sigh!
> 
> I must be psychic, 'cause I knew you would say that.
> 
> In addition, even if you could provide the names and their claimed statements of reconciliation, unless they are dead and stayed married until death did part them, there statements still* do not negate the observations of divorce attorneys who say that EVENTUALLY a loyal spouse divorces the cheater.*


And their observations do not negate the hearts of those who are SINCERE in their reconciliation. If these attorneys are correct, then BTB is going to divorce Sigma. Beowulf is going to divorce Morrigan. Mrs. Entropy will divorce Entropy. And my husband will divorce me...or I will divorce him. The thing is, many lawyers will say such things to keep that in the minds of the loyal spouse... and in doing so, they are constantly thinking about it, which then increases the likelihood of a divorce happening. I don't buy it. 

Also, turnera was speaking from a PERSONAL observation, not statistics. My PERSONAL observation is that MANY marriages, defiled by infidelity, do end in divorce... but not all. And it isn't because of inconvenience of divorce that I stayed with my husband, nor he with me. We chose to work things out because we love each other. Turnera shouldn't be required to produce names from his PERSONAL life regarding successful reconciliation. It is not for you, nor for me, to judge whether their reconciliations are sincere or not. That is for them and their spouses to decide. Perhaps you are right, Sara. Perhaps they will separate eventually. But it still doesn't mean that is the case for every marriage.

ETA: However, I do think the OP should just let her go. In this case, I don't see her as truly wanting to fix the marriage. She flirted with a neighbor, after the affair was reveal... that is very telling in and of itself.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

happyman64 said:


> Heartbroke,
> 
> You have received some really good advice and I am glad you looked at her texts.
> 
> ...


I have done all but 1,4 and 7. I will be completing those by the end of the week. I still thank all of you for help. I know I sound like a dummy but my ultimate goal is for a happy and healthy family. I am still in hopes that will be with my current wife.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

As disgusting as it may sound, you should consider paternity testing of your kids. God only knows when she really started cheating on you and the truth of the kids paternity may come out when anybody least expects it. This can be pivotal in your decision on whether you R or D.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> I have done all but 1,4 and 7. I will be completing those by the end of the week. I still thank all of you for help. I know I sound like a dummy but my ultimate goal is for a happy and healthy family. I am still in hopes that will be with my current wife.


Good get them all done ASAP.

ANd MOri is right you should get your kids tested just to make sure when you get a chance.

Now I am pro R but it takes two.

You said your wife stopped the A a few months back. Can you confirm this is true?

Has she told you that she wants to still be married to you?

And please remember one thing. *You are responsible for 50% of the problems in your marriage but she is responsible 100% for the Affair*.

You cannot take the blame for her decision to go out and have sex with OM because she needed to get away from the daily pressures. That is not how adults handle problem in their marriages.

You might have been a di*k for a few years and that made her pull away from the marriage. I can understand that. But that did not make her go out find a guy and go fall on his di*k for 2 years. She did that all on her own.

DO you understand???

She had a choice to come to you with her gripes, you guys resolve them or you divorce. She chose poorly because she chose to cheat and involve someone else in your marriage.

Keep moving forward with all the steps outlined below.

ANd most importantly, take care of you, your health and your kids.

HM64


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Some days are harder than others. I want to be close to my wife and love her but when she kisses me all I can think of is did she have that look of wanting on her face when she was with the OM. How much of our personal things did she do with him? I just want to stop thinking about it and be able to Love her again.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

Heartbroke said:


> Some days are harder than others. I want to be close to my wife and love her but when she kisses me all I can think of is did she have that look of wanting on her face when she was with the OM. How much of our personal things did she do with him? *I just want to stop thinking about it and be able to Love her again*.




Did you got the complete truth from her? Do you know how many A she had? Did she stoped TT? Is she truly remorseful to do anything to ease your pain? Do you know actually what you have forgiven? If the answer is NO then you are in false R.

Why she wanted to be in this marriage is it because she loves you or for the sake of children or due to fear of loosing her meal ticket? 

I think two yrs of banging someone on your back on your bed and on your sons bed is too much to swallow, if you swallow it without facing it head on you will develop resentments to her in future, it will eventually leads to more trouble.

IMO, you are too fast in R, take your own time and address the problems first with some good MC&IC who is reputed in dealing with infidelity.

Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Has she taken a polygraph yet? Why not?


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

I dont know what doing a lie detector would cover now. I know she has slept with someone else at this point. I also know she has lied to me repeatedly for the last 3 years all by her own admission. She is wanting to start over, she would have never agreed to move with me prior to this point. 

I know my desire to make this work out is probably clouding my judgement. I just don't know if finding out additional stuff would make this better or worse at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Taking a polygraph isn't really for that. It's for having the cheater make a physical, actual STEP toward humility and acceptance of their 'crime.' It can be a HUGE blow to their fog-addled ego to have to be lowering themselves like that; if I want to get to stay with my BH, I have to do this.

Usually, the BH learns a LOT more in the 24 hours BEFORE the actual polygraph than during it. The cheater, afraid of the test, will spill their guts, hoping to convince the BH to stop the test.

In your case it would be a HUGE gesture on her part that she truly is sorry and wanting to make YOU feel better for what she's done.

Plus, if they REFUSE to take it, you just learned more about your partner than you probably ever wanted to know.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Hi. Just had my first day back at work since I found about my wifes PA. I couldn't believe how hard it was. It was like I was back to the first day of when I found out all over again. I even called and text my wife to reassure me that she was not messing me over again, but I know even if she was I still probably wouldn't know about it. 

I so much want to be able to trust her again and she really does appear to be giving me what I have asked for. My WW is having some difficulty believing that I really want to work this out due to the nature of all that she has done, and that I want to move her out the state and then make her stuck where she has no family or friends. I have explained to her that I am not ready to give up on our family or her. I know she can be the women I fell in love with all those years ago, before all of the self gratification and what I tend to call her Mid Life Crisis started. 

I hope I am not being a complete idiot here, but I don't think I could be hurt more than I have been recently.


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## Beelzebub (Jun 26, 2012)

you are the complete idiot here, sorry for quoting you.
Damn, you could have included the other men on your taxes. 
she could have gave you an STD if she already didnt do that. 
are you sure the kids are yours?
you are being so lean and soft it shows the woman you have no dignity and she will do that again in the future because she knows for a fact you do the same thing to get back to her. 
you are saying she surprised that you are taking her back? DAMN right, she is feel like she won the lottery, she get to fook around with many guys and keep her house and someone so-called husband to spend money on her, she might even used your money to buy condoms and lubrication for other men.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Glad to here that there is progress being made. I think the biggest mistake people make is to do nothing. Whether you are going for a D or an A you need to do something. At least you are moving forward and getting past this and at some point you will get over this. When you do at least know you didn't waste any time.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The only way you can confirm that you are not making a mistake is by keeping your eyes on her and expose the affair. 

So make the call to OM wife and tell the kid in the niegbor hood that if he comes around your wife you will kill him.

Get the VAR and plant it in the car the information you will gather will confirm her true commitment. She most likely knows about the key loger and even the phone sync to the computer, but still keep track....this behavior is addicting and right now you need to know if your making the right move so please validate your wifes word and actions.

I did it for a year after confronting my wife and it totaly validated the life style changes my WW as made. Its been 2-1/2 years now and I still check her cell and GPS but only when something obscure happens like a cal about working late.

My point is you feel alot better if you can confirm your wifes words and actions. You won't have to do it for ever but for now its nice to know that when your ww goes to her IC to get the tools to affair proof her new marriage then you can at least verify that she is actually there. It will make you feel better the listen to your WW on the VAR when she talks about how she want this marriage and the behavioral changes she is making to affair proof her marriage.


So please for your own effective a real R you need to confirm it by going all stealthy. 

In my case it helped me keep my family together and confirmed my WW true commitment.

Let me tell you its a good feeling when you hear your wife turn down a GNO and be with you rather then go out and the reason for this kind of choice.

She has a long way to go but if your wife chooses she can have the tools to act as if you are always next to her even when your not.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Beelzebub said:


> you are the complete idiot here, sorry for quoting you.
> Damn, you could have included the other men on your taxes.
> she could have gave you an STD if she already didn't do that.
> are you sure the kids are yours?
> ...


I do thank you for your honesty and I know you are probably speaking with passion due to someone doing this to you. It is an anger that only the betrayed can feel that someone else could reach right down to your core and crush the parts that make you feel human...

I have to look at the facts though. She has agreed to move with me back to Texas where it is the last place she wanted to be. She has also agreed to quit her job to make sure that there is no further contact with the OM. As painful as it is for me, I believe she has been honest and forthcoming with almost every question that I have asked"except for the usual I DON'T KNOW/I DON'T REMEMBER".


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sir, if she goes back to the same school this fall the marriage is doomed.


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## Beelzebub (Jun 26, 2012)

If I'm made I'm only made for you and the way you were treated.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Have you exposed the A(affair) to OMW (other mans wife)?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

oops sorry the OM/GF is the one that told you sorry!


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

the guy said:


> Sir, if she goes back to the same school this fall the marriage is doomed.


I feel what you are saying but as with most families today I am torn as to actually make her quit her job. We all receive our insurance through her job which if we had to purchase it on our own coupled with the loss of her pay check we might be hurting for money. She agreed to do it for me but I am not sure if that would be the best for family which above all I do have to put first.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As far as the questions go, I would ask my fWW a question in the morning and want a answer in the evening.

This gave her a chance to really think about it and give her time to pull up that long term memory that waywards often loose.

It worked for us ...one question in the morning then an answer at night. We did that with all the "I don;t remembers" and the really shameful ones that she had a hard time dealing with.

I think it took the presure off her and really gave her a chance to do some sole searching. In the evenings the discussion always started out with my WW asking why I wanted to know and if I would hold it against her.....then I would get the painful answer and then let it go.

As long as you remain calm, don't push, except her responses/answers and then ask another morning question. But wait until morning for your next question.


As time passed she know she wasn't going to get hit and she would start to except the reason I had for asking and we both covered alot and I got what I needed to move on.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

Beelzebub said:


> If I'm made I'm only made for you and the way you were treated.


I am mad, hurt, enraged, and generally pissed off, but I know that I still love her and that the women I want by my side is right under the surface of the fog.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

What good is the insurance if your divorced? find another school in the same district or go to another district.

Brother you are f^cking playing with you marriage SO LET HER QUIT HER DAMB JOB!!!!!!!!

Sorry for yelling but I have been here way to long to see a train wreck coming and sir you are heading towards false R if she stays.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Do you understand she is telling you that if she goes back to work that all those same feelings she had before will come back as soon as she lays eyes on the OM.

Sir she is actually asking to quit b/c she this is one of her 1st steps to affair proof her marriage.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Dude you won't even have a family if she goes back to work. I would rather be poor and broke then loose my wife AGAIN!!!!!!


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

You make your point well. I will not crumble on the quitting of her job.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

What about exposure at work?
This is a debateable subject, but in this case if NC (no contact) with OM can be confirmed by you personaly it may not be needed, but many believe the affair should be exposed at work if it involves a coworker especially if the AP (affair partner) has a record for sleeping with married poeple. 
I personally believe exposure at the work place also puts consequences on the AP.

Even though your wife....right now wants to quit, this may solidify her dicision.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I don'tk know, I don't remember... bull****, as you already know.
She get a calendar nad write down a timeline ofd the affair nad every other transgressions or innapropiate behavior through the years; Timeline include who, what, when, where, how, she use whatever she needs to jog the memory and put the pieces together; pictures, journals, notebooks, work schedules... 
She knows well how it started, who made the first move... she remembers everything!


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

the guy said:


> What about exposure at work?
> This is a debateable subject, but in this case if NC (no contact) with OM can be confirmed by you personaly it may not be needed, but many believe the affair should be exposed at work if it involves a coworker especially if the AP (affair partner) has a record for sleeping with married poeple.
> I personally believe exposure at the work place also puts consequences on the AP.
> 
> Even though your wife....right now wants to quit, this may solidify her dicision.


Absolutely. How many times have we seen that couples have difficulty moving on because of resentment over the AP not facing consequences. Many WS in the beginning when they are still fogged up do not want the AP hurt but once the fog is cleared and R is well under way they wish the OM/OW had faced the same consequences that they did. OP, your wife has to quit her job. You KNOW this. You need to expose this to her employer. Not only will this ensure that she does indeed leave that job and cut all ties but in time she will thank you for making the OM face consequences. She will respect you for standing up for the marriage by doing this.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

And you shouldn't have shown your W this thread. Her actions are full of dishonesty and it is too soon to trust her yet.

2 years betrayal takes a lot of lies and cheating. Imagine yourself doing that. Having an affair and going back to your spouse, putting him at risk to STDs and acting like it is nothing. It wasn't a ONS. It was 2 years of calculated lying and cheating. You should realize that. And then flirting with another guy in the midst of all this. She might genuinely be remorseful but you shouldn't trust her yet. To be honest, she shouldn't trust herself yet. She is more capable of lying and hiding than you can assume. You should be aware of that now. She is giving measly concessions(like moving out of state/quitting job) on threat of divorce after an affair. They seem to be more out of guilt than anything. Does she actually mean it?

There also seems to be some sort of denial in your attitude. Like you couldn't bear to find anymore. You seem to say divorce here and there, but I think you are mentally ready to actually go through with it if things get bad. It is likely that she will regress to her older behavior once things settle down


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

warlock07 said:


> And you shouldn't have shown your W this thread. Her actions are full of dishonesty and it is too soon to trust her yet.
> 
> 2 years betrayal takes a lot of lies and cheating. Imagine yourself doing that. Having an affair and going back to your spouse, putting him at risk to STDs and acting like it is nothing. It wasn't a ONS. It was 2 years of calculated lying and cheating. You should realize that. And then flirting with another guy in the midst of all this. She might genuinely be remorseful but you shouldn't trust her yet. To be honest, she shouldn't trust herself yet. She is more capable of lying and hiding than you can assume. You should be aware of that now. She is giving measly concessions(like moving out of state/quitting job) on threat of divorce after an affair. They seem to be more out of guilt than anything. Does she actually mean it?
> 
> There also seems to be some sort of denial in your attitude. Like you couldn't bear to find anymore. You seem to say divorce here and there, but I think you are mentally ready to actually go through with it if things get bad. It is likely that she will regress to her older behavior once things settle down


I did let my wife read this last night but I have not posted this anywhere to the best of my knowledge, how did you know?

I wanted her to know how I was feeling and what this was doing to me. There is no doubt in my mind that if I see her going back to the old ways this will be done. I love her but I also want to have some self respect.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

So your wife's cruel 2 years PA was exposed by OM's SO. Then you come here and start a very cmapaing of snooping and she was already crossing lines! What are the odds your wife's only transgression (beyond the obvious cruel 2 yrs PA) was the only one you were able to get by snooping or being told? She's so disensitized about her horrible boundaires I have no dubt it's an ongoing thing.
She claims felt you were not commited when her actions prove she's obnviously the less invested. You are taking too much blame for your tamtrum early on the marriage. She's blameshifting and gaslighting you.


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

I think I read your wifes post on Surviving infidelity.com in the wayward section. "Sex in the son's bed etc"

Betrayerb40


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Yep.


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## seasalt (Jul 5, 2012)

Heartbroke is also posting there as well. She has labeled him as controlling and is the midst of (((hugs))) from the like minded people on that site.

Heartbroke, perhaps she gets it but a year and a half of cheating and lying can't be undone by words. A Supreme Court Justice once said when asked to define pornography "I cant but I know it when I see it". I think her remorse should be judged by you when you "know It" and even more appropriately when you "feel it".


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

After reading your WW's thread at SI, I noticed something that you haven't mentioned here, that *she had a boob job a couple of years ago*. Its *not a coincidence* that she had a boob job a couple of years ago and then she started having an affair. This isn't that much different from the woman who is a former heavy, loses the weight, then goes on to have affairs.



> He has issues with what I wear. (In his defese I had breast augmentation a little over two years ago, and he feels this is partly to blame for the A). Anway, I believe I am a professional, and dress like one, but he doesn't always agree. This kind of behavior has made me feel he doesn't think I'm capable of making that decision.


You showed concern about her wanting to display her new assets, and you were right, and it looks like coworker OM took notice, she enjoyed the new attention, and had her affair. She completely disregarded your concerns as controlling.

Just to show you how bad her boundaries are, she started an EA with a neighbor. She thinks its harmless and nothing.



> He took our 3 boys to visit his family, and while he was gone and I was texting another guy much younger then myself. *I felt it was harmless*, and had no intention of seeing him. He actually lives a few houses away, and the extent of our conversation revolved around working out and his age. (He's 20, so I was joking that the only way he could drink was if I bought him a beer). It was kind of flirty but nothing more extreme in my eyes.


This is after you discovered the PA with her coworker, and then she starts this crap? Seriously? This shows absolutely no remorse or regard for your feelings. 

She evidently doesn't like the advice you're getting here, but then again, most unremorseful cheaters don't. She's not at the point of remorse, not by a long shot. She's only going halfway, which isn't going to be enough. She still doesn't even get why having sex in your son's bed was all that bad - she justifies it as okay because no one has slept in the bed for 6 months! One of the fWSs there, floridaredman told it to her like it is:



> That is the gist of it. He was in your house. That showed a total lack of respect for your H and your home.
> So yes..you will be flamed for that. No matter if the room was being used or not.


Your WW never understood the total lack of respect that comes from banging the OM in your own home, in the kids bed. It matters not, that no one's slept in it for 6 months.

She sees you as controlling, but of course she doesn't want to accept that its because of her behaviors and her low boundaries. Therefore, she doesn't see what she does as wrong, only that you're controlling. See the pattern? What she is, is a cake eater.










She likes all the benefits that come with marriage (joint income, higher standard of living, built in babysitter - you), while wanting the freedom to pursue affairs (coworkers, neighbors) and going out for drinks with the girls (GNOs). 

She's not truly remorseful, and without true remorse, you're only in False R. Because by the attitude she displays, another affair is very likely in the future considering her low boundaries, wanting to rebel against you, etc.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

Definitely a cakeeater LM, No amount of therapy is ever going to change these kind of cheaters OP.


The difference between the remorseful ones and the ones who don't give a rat's arse about the damage they've done is that the remorseful ones put up with all the shlt you unload on them and more

OP I suggest you read more threads on this forum and you'll find a lot of similarities between the other WSs and your wife, most of their marriages ended in D.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

anonymouskitty said:


> Definitely a cakeeater LM, No amount of therapy is ever going to change these kind of cheaters OP.
> 
> 
> The difference between the remorseful ones and the ones who don't give a rat's arse about the damage they've done is that *the remorseful ones put up with all the shlt you unload on them and more*.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

This particular WW doesn't like being held accountable for her actions and constantly plays the "controlling" card. Definitely not a sign of remorse.

betrayerb40 will definitely cheat again, whether she's married to heartbroken or in a new relationship. Her new boobs have given her the confidence that she can get any man she wants. If you read on the net, the chances of divorce after the WW gets breast implants goes up another 50 percent.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

If I had a dollar for every time a WW said that her BH was "controlling", I'd be richer than Carlos Slim, Warrent Buffett and Bill Gates put together.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

_He had posted that I had sex in one of my kid's bedrooms, which no doubt inspired many hurtful replies about me. What he didn't mention was that a few years ago my son had started sleeping in the other bedroom with my other 2 boys. (That way they can all watch tv before bed). That room, and bed has not been used by anyone for at leat 6 months before my A, and still is not used. _*So there is nothing wrong in bringing OM to the home and bang him. *_T*he OM has never seen my bedroom let alone been in my bed*. *Wah, he directly came and took her and went to the sons bed room as he know it was not used for past six months banged her and left evry time. He never went to any other places, so he never saw her bedroom. If her son was using that bed room she may have taken him to the lawn, but never show him the bed room, because its sacred, she respect that very much.*It's bad enough he was in our house, I get that... _When?



*Cheater getting advice from cheaters..........Really?*

She knows OP is reading her thread, so she will never write the truth there.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I know a part of OP wanted to R, But true R happens with truly remorseful WW, she is not remorseful only regret getting caught. She still cant understand or see what she really did to you.

If you R with her now without she being truly remorseful and you sucking up your feelings will lead to resentment, more hurt and pain.

So dont see her getting help from cheaters as a measure to regain your trust oor rebuilding your marriage. She is there for justification and rationalization of her cheating and validation from other Cheaters.

Take your own time and deal with every aspects thoroughly then proceed to R or D. Its your life dont allow a cheater to manipulate you again and again.


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## Heartbroke (May 6, 2010)

I just wanted to give a quick update. My wife and I are reconciling, she has made some real changes. She did quit her job and has not had any further contact with the OM. We have even moved out of Florida which she did not want to do, but states she it's very happy now that we have moved. Now for me I am taking it one day at a time. My life kind of exploded after this happened, I lost my job, and sank very deeply into depression. I am still struggling with that now but I have gotten a new job and really trying to get my life back on track. 

This site really does help. The best advise I can offer to any newbie here is listen to everyone on here but do your own soul searching. also.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

The goust of threads past???


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

thanks for the update


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