# Taking the NMMNG Plunge



## HobbyJunky (Aug 8, 2016)

Hi Everyone,

Based upon several recommendations on my initial thread, I've decided to begin reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. I was pretty sure I saw a large support thread on here for questions, but can't find it now. For those of you that have applied these concepts successfully, should I look harder to find that thread (if it even does actually exist) or just continue with this one? 

For now, I'll go ahead and ask the a question I have after reading the first chapter. I remember reading a thread where someone asked if they should read this book along w/ their wife. From what I recall, the general consensus was "No." The book itself, however, suggests it. Since I obviously haven't gotten in too far (and don't really know what I could be getting myself into) what would you all recommend?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

don't do it with her.

if you do, it will just be another covert contract.

"Look honey, I'm trying to improve. Now can you be nicer to me?"


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## HobbyJunky (Aug 8, 2016)

Anon1111 said:


> don't do it with her.
> 
> if you do, it will just be another covert contract.
> 
> "Look honey, I'm trying to improve. Now can you be nicer to me?"


Hi Anon1111. I understand where this type of thing could be used in that fashion, but that isn't why I'm reading it. I want to be a mentally stronger, more secure man. I need that for me.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nope.

In fact, I wouldn't let her see it or even tell her that you're reading it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

HobbyJunky said:


> Hi Anon1111. I understand where this type of thing could be used in that fashion, but that isn't why I'm reading it. I want to be a mentally stronger, more secure man. I need that for me.


that's great and the right attitude

demonstrate that with your actions

she does not need to see the sausage making


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree. Do not tell her about the book. At least not yet. You can always discuss the ideas with her after you understand them. My advice is to read the entire book and digest the ideas presented. Then you can see what behaviors you already have and those you need to take from it. Be cautious. Dr. Glover warns these steps may make a better marriage or kill the one you have. 

I also second reading Wayne Levine's Hold on to Your NUTs, Dr. Chapman's The 5 Love Languages, and Drs. Towsend and Cloud's Boundaries in Marriage. Then take what you need in your life and marriage and apply them to what you and your wife need.
*
I for one, believe that not one book or author holds the key to each and every relationship, but each of us can take what we need to apply to our own situations.*

Good luck


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

HobbyJunky said:


> Hi Anon1111. I understand where this type of thing could be used in that fashion, but that isn't why I'm reading it. I want to be a mentally stronger, more secure man. I need that for me.


I missed this. Good for you. That's the key. Change is for you. It's not to change someone else. 

Best


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

I've always found it easy to not be a nice guy. I'm a gentleman but not a nice guy. If I ever started being a nice guy, back in my younger years, some chick would usually straighten me out in short order.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

VladDracul said:


> I've always found it easy to not be a nice guy. I'm a gentleman but not a nice guy. If I ever started being a nice guy, back in my younger years, some chick would usually straighten me out in short order.


Nice is in France. Guys put on to much Cologne, France.

Not only do you look weak....the MADemoiselles can smell you coming.

They run straight away.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

HobbyJunky said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Based upon several recommendations on my initial thread, I've decided to begin reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. I was pretty sure I saw a large support thread on here for questions, but can't find it now. For those of you that have applied these concepts successfully, should I look harder to find that thread (if it even does actually exist) or just continue with this one?
> 
> For now, I'll go ahead and ask the a question I have after reading the first chapter. I remember reading a thread where someone asked if they should read this book along w/ their wife. From what I recall, the general consensus was "No." The book itself, however, suggests it. Since I obviously haven't gotten in too far (and don't really know what I could be getting myself into) what would you all recommend?


Absolutely not! You do not want to let her know that you are taking advice from a book, even if the advice itself is good.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

I don't think it's very wise to take relationship advice or "how to be an man/a$$" advice from a Dr. that divorced his first wife due to an affair with a woman who became his wife #2 only to then have an affair on her and divorce her to. 

Only THEN does the guy have an epiphany that it wasn't his fault because he just married the wrong women because he didn't NOT want to be a nice guy. If I recall, he states somewhere that his only regret about his divorce was losing his relationship with his children.

So what's a twice divorced cheater doctor to do ~~~ how about banging a bunch of {desperate, lonely, most likely divorced} women ~~~ thinking he's discovered some magic formula for becoming a real man ~~ and writing a book about becoming a douche and "framing" it as he's just giving women what they want/need due to their nature {as inferior servants to lord Glover}. The only real formula he's found is that 50+ year old doctors, no matter how ugly they are, have high rank and can be much more picky and choosy than when he was a 20 year dork studying psychology or whatever in undergrad.

Read whatever you choose. You're a grown man and from your indications on this thread I don't think you'll actually fall for the underlying misogyny. Applying the PUA {pick up artist} crap to your marriage isn't quite the same as using it to psychologically impress {manipulate} such single women at bars and country clubs into dating you. I personally think you're better off reading it with your wife. The whole manosphere thing is so funny that it needs to be shared and enjoyed with her and certainly not taken seriously as marital advice.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> don't do it with her.
> 
> if you do, it will just be another covert contract.
> 
> *"Look honey, I'm trying to improve. Now can you be nicer to me?"*



"Sure thing!!!" {jumps his bones}


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

HobbyJunky said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> Based upon several recommendations on my initial thread, I've decided to begin reading No More Mr. Nice Guy. I was pretty sure I saw a large support thread on here for questions, but can't find it now. For those of you that have applied these concepts successfully, should I look harder to find that thread (if it even does actually exist) or just continue with this one?
> 
> For now, I'll go ahead and ask the a question I have after reading the first chapter. I remember reading a thread where someone asked if they should read this book along w/ their wife. From what I recall, the general consensus was "No." The book itself, however, suggests it. Since I obviously haven't gotten in too far (and don't really know what I could be getting myself into) what would you all recommend?


Think about it.
Did you actually read anything in there that would work better if you had/expected your wife to hold your hand while you're reading/doing it? NO.

The "read this with your mummy" is all part of the huggy-wuggy BS that got people in that kind of NiceGuy mess in the first place. Such dependency patterns were theoretically supposed to make couples closer, and so they could "share" stuff, and help to prove you are willing to reach out and communicate with your partner........all based on the mistaken thought (clearly by a bunch of psychs who were seeking their mother's approval) that the women had superior communication and Self (in the Jungian sense) skills - where that simply isn't true. Most didn't know, didn't want to know, and if it's got to the point where you're picking up that book is too late to go down the happy bliss path. 

Hopefully by now you've realised the most important thing is to get up off your knees, step boldly forward, and set your own will. Being "Nice" is simply a matter of not being a complete arse to decent people and seeking to be constructive over destructive, and being in control of unpleasant options (such as violence, greed, and pettiness). And that last one, with the passive-aggressiveness of the "NiceGuy(tm)" is the trademark of the NG problem.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

In addition to NMMNG I would suggest you also read the source of some of Glover's material and ideas "Iron John" by Robert Bly. The book is about men and how our modern society has basically created the need for the "manosphere" that some less informed people denigrate. 
For much of human history there was relative balance between the sexes based on natural strengths and weaknesses and imposed by the fight for survival. Contemporary society has undermined much of this and replaced it with post modern ideas of "equality" that are not based in nature. Much of the "equality" is really just an attempt to emasculate today's men to right the wrongs (some perceived) of the past. 
Much of modern day feminism is just as misguided and wrong as much of the misogyny of earlier modern times was. The "Nice Guy" is a product of the over reaction of modern feminism to the misogyny of the recent past. The Nice Guy is the compliment to the feminist. Just as many women eventually come to find that "feminism" doesn't gain them happiness, so to do many men eventually realize that being a "Nice Guy" doesn't serve them well. Which IMO is why there are so many failed marriages today


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

My 2 cents. The whole point of NMMNG is about you changing yourself. It has nothing to do with you changing your wife. 

In fact you can't change your wife, so don't try. Only she can change herself, and then only if she wants to.

Glover's book (along with some others) helped save my marriage. I feel that Glover's book and any one of the books by MW Davis (Divorce Busting, Sex Starved Marriage, etc.) should be considered companion books. Read, them reread them and then compare what both authors tell you and apply them to your life. The both tell you to Get A Life. They both tell you to don't be co-dependent and clingly. They both tell you to do things that make you happy and proud of yourself.

Glover helps explain covert contracts which is a very difficult subject for most to understand. I can't tell you how hard and how much reflection was required to learn how to stop doing covert contracts. Davis is the master of explaining the "180" and how effective it is in saving a marriage and regaining your masculinity that attracted your wife to you in the first place.

I echo the importance of Chapman's 5 languages of love. Iron John is great but only after you have read and understood the basics.

Stopping you career as a Nice Guy, is something you need to do for yourself and by yourself. It is a journey of self discovery, change and growth.

Good Luck.


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## HobbyJunky (Aug 8, 2016)

Thank you to all that have posted. I'll be honest when I say that what I've read thus far hasn't really "gripped" me (about half-way through chapter 2). The redundance of information makes it seem very brain-washy. It also seems that many of the statements I've come across have been written in such a way that they could relate to any man (or woman). With that said, I do plan to still read the book because it was recommended over and over - but if I continue, it will definitely be by myself.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

It is not the kind of book you can just read once. You have to think about what it is trying to tell you. That is why reading a companion book author like MW Davis and then rereading NMMNG and doing lots of introspection is the key to figuring out yourself and what you need to do. Good luck.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Ynot said:


> In addition to NMMNG I would suggest you also read the source of some of Glover's material and ideas "Iron John" by Robert Bly. The book is about men and how our modern society has basically created the need for the "manosphere" that some less informed people denigrate.
> For much of human history there was relative balance between the sexes based on natural strengths and weaknesses and imposed by the fight for survival. Contemporary society has undermined much of this and replaced it with post modern ideas of "equality" that are not based in nature. Much of the "equality" is really just an attempt to emasculate today's men to right the wrongs (some perceived) of the past.
> Much of modern day feminism is just as misguided and wrong as much of the misogyny of earlier modern times was. The "Nice Guy" is a product of the over reaction of modern feminism to the misogyny of the recent past. The Nice Guy is the compliment to the feminist. Just as many women eventually come to find that "feminism" doesn't gain them happiness, so to do many men eventually realize that being a "Nice Guy" doesn't serve them well. Which IMO is why there are so many failed marriages today


But Dr. Glover's first marriage didn't fail because he was "being a 'Nice Guy'" ~ it failed because he was a selfish entitled cheater lacking the character to either honor his vows or divorce the wife of his youth respectfully {in a manner befitting a supposed MAN of his masculine stature}. 

I've also witnessed a lot of failed marriage due to men becoming complete a$$hats after having read Dr. Glover and other manosphere perverts and cheaters articles and information. My wife and I tried helping one couple where the husband had pretty much become a serial cheater and blaming it all on a mid-life crisis. I knew he was reading some of the manosphere crap when he tried justifying his behavior because her "N" number was too high when he met and started dating her ~ like SHE was the issue in their marriage and like Dr. Glover he never should have married her and divorce was the way to fix that error. 

So no, it's not a matter of not understanding or denigrating the manosphere. It's more a matter of understanding it's foundation more and rejecting it ~ mostly ~ because it's juvenile, rationalizes evil, and, ironically ~ UNMANLY.

A manosphere isn't necessary to counteract or counterbalance feminism because feminism doesn't define me or the men I know and respect. 


In addition, a quick google search on author and poet, Robert Bly reveals, predictably, that he's just another cheating wayward husband. He divorced his wife, Carol Bly {and 4 children} of 25 years in 1979 and married his affair partner in 1980. His mistress and second wife, Ruth Bly former Ruth Counsell even lived in their marital home with her two children from 1973-1977 so it was either an open marriage, swinging or some other 'arrangement' until the first wife had had enough. There's also some non-specific information that he supposedly had a homosexual affair or two. "IRON" {from "Iron John} is, after all, a rhyming euphemism for the homosexual phallus. He wrote Iron John in the late 1980's and it's based upon some writings he made in 1981, just after his divorce in the height of his waywardness.



> In 1979, Bly and Carol Bly divorced, an event that precipitated a serious crisis of the soul for the poet. In Bly’s own words, “Ruth Counsell entered my life in 1972. Carol Bly and I agreed to divorce in 1979, and Ruth Counsell and I were married the next year.” source ~ https://www.writinguniversity.org/writers/robert-bly



A couple major flaws with the whole 'movement' as I see it {I'm not analyzing it because who would care to spend that much time reading it}:

1. The golden days of society and culture were not pre-modern days when men dominated, dismissed and controlled 'their' women.

2. Women don't need to be dominated.

3. Women don't like to be dominated.


Some truths {you can always find truth intermixed with lies}:

1. Men and women aren't the same.

2. Men should lead

3. many {but not all} women like to be lead {by a strong, loving, supportive and healthy man}

4. The best men and women honor their vows and commitments {those are the people you should emulate, read, support}


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Quality said:


> But Dr. Glover's first marriage didn't fail because he was "being a 'Nice Guy'" ~ it failed because he was a selfish entitled cheater lacking the character to either honor his vows or divorce the wife of his youth respectfully {in a manner befitting a supposed MAN of his masculine stature}.
> 
> I've also witnessed a lot of failed marriage due to men becoming complete a$$hats after having read Dr. Glover and other manosphere perverts and cheaters articles and information. My wife and I tried helping one couple where the husband had pretty much become a serial cheater and blaming it all on a mid-life crisis. I knew he was reading some of the manosphere crap when he tried justifying his behavior because her "N" number was too high when he met and started dating her ~ like SHE was the issue in their marriage and like Dr. Glover he never should have married her and divorce was the way to fix that error.
> 
> ...


I am so glad that feminism does not define you or any of the other men you know. But so what, it does define many men, by trying to remake them into something they are not. 
Also so what if both Glover and Bly cheated on and divorced their wives? Does this render everything or anything they may have to say as invalid? Or has it ever occurred to you that perhaps they were in bad marriages prior to cheating? Or, in addition to being able to speak for every man, do you also possess supernatural knowledge of the the state of these two marriages?
FTR, Dave Ramsey filed for bankruptcy, but that doesn't stop millions of Americans from following his anti-bankruptcy advice, now does it? I for one would rather take advice from some one who knows what he is talking about from his own experience, than some know it all want a be with none. To the best of my knowledge I have yet to see any advice from Glover or Bly that one should cheat on their wives. What I have seen is advice to men to be men and to stop trying to be less curvy women who can pee standing up.
Furthermore the PUA community represents just a small extremist portion of the spectrum of ideas that make up the manosphere. Lumping all of it together is dishonest and disingenuous.
No one suggested the "golden age" of relationship was some ancient times, only that in less modern days the survival of the species was predicated on the successful balancing of the sexes. It is unfortunate that as technology advanced society first reacted with retrograde misogynism which prompted the more recent reaction of feminism which then propmpted the even more recent response that is the manosphere. The feminist attempt to address misogyny overshot the mark. The manosphere is the natural reaction to the imbalance that was created.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Ynot said:


> I am so glad that feminism does not define you or any of the other men you know. But so what, it does define many men, by trying to remake them into something they are not.


Feminism can only make or 'remake' the willing.

Don't let females define you {my 5 word thesis on manliness}






> Also so what if both Glover and Bly cheated on and divorced their wives? Does this render everything or anything they may have to say as invalid? Or has it ever occurred to you that perhaps they were in bad marriages prior to cheating? Or, in addition to being able to speak for every man, do you also possess supernatural knowledge of the the state of these two marriages?


Yes, it does taint MOST {I'm not denying there's some truth intermixed} of what they say as invalid. IF they were in bad marriages, they were in bad marriages of their own choice and were a participant and partial cause of that 'bad marriage' ~~ they should have either worked to fix it or divorced. Nobody held a gun to head to marry these women or forced them to cheat. Both {Bly and Glover} were married in the golden era of supposed male domination anyway. Bly and his first wife were actually ultra liberal hippies, protesters of the Vietnam war and living on a farm/commune with no running water and other hippies coming in and out. The genesis of "Iron John" was in response to a supposed demand from men at his writing workshops for fairy tales about men. Iron John is a translation and interpretation of an Old Celtic {maybe} Brothers Grimm fairytale about a wild beast man in the woods that steals away an eight year old prince and "mentors" him. It's really very homoerotic. 

I don't know the state of these two marriages. I can only guess. Bly's first wife MIGHT HAVE BEEN a polygamist and consensually moved her husband's mistress {2nd wife} and kids into their home. Though I find it odd the mistress/wife lived there 4 years, then moved out in 1977, then Robert divorced Carol in 1979 and married the adulteress in 1980.  Robert Bly said this about it in an interview regarding a book he wrote at that time interestingly called "Loving a Woman in Two Worlds" {which included the totally wayward poem, "A Letter to Her" which I'll quote at the bottom of this post}.



> Interviewer: It seems odd to me that these love poems—so passionate—should come relatively late in your life—you must have been forty-six or so in 1972. Why weren’t they written in your twenties?
> 
> Robert Bly: There’s something backward about my life . . . so many things happen out of time. I suppose I spent—or wasted—much of my twenties alone in a New York room, during the years I’ve described. At that time I couldn’t be both a lover and an artist, so I decided to be an artist only. But these late-arriving things cause a lot of suffering and grief for others.
> Paris Review - The Art of Poetry No. 79, Robert Bly


Also, the mistress wife reportedly wasn't too thrilled with herself either.



A comment reported to have been made by Robert Bly's mistress wife said:


> Thank you for this! I remember being in a women’s workshop and the speaker was Robert Bly’s wife, (Ruth Counsell I think). She said that she felt every woman looks in the mirror at some time and despises what she sees. It made sense to me, however, someone in the audience stood up and started denouncing her and her view. Interesting what buttons get pushed! Hang in there – the truth will set us free. https://bodydivineyoga.wordpress.com/2014/01/16/yoga-body-the-backlash/





> FTR, Dave Ramsey filed for bankruptcy, but that doesn't stop millions of Americans from following his anti-bankruptcy advice, now does it? I for one would rather take advice from some one who knows what he is talking about from his own experience, than some know it all want a be with none. To the best of my knowledge I have yet to see any advice from Glover or Bly that one should cheat on their wives. What I have seen is advice to men to be men and to stop trying to be less curvy women who can pee standing up.


You're a man. Take advice from whomever you choose. Dave Ramsey is a Christian married for over 30 years. He probably knows more about marriage and being a man than either Bly (the hippie) or Glover (the egotistical 3 time married doctor).

Sure they don't give advice that one should cheat on their wives, rather their ideas and concepts merely rationalize and justify it if you did, do or are considering it. I guess I should say Glover does that as Bly is mostly just a poet who thinks men should mentor men and that, as a farmer, men used to see their fathers work and in modern society men leave the home to work outside the view of their children and children {and boys} are left to be raised by their feminine mothers. 




> Furthermore the PUA community represents just a small extremist portion of the spectrum of ideas that make up the manosphere. Lumping all of it together is dishonest and disingenuous.


The PUA community seems to be the predecessor of the manosphere much more so than promises keepers, anti-feminism or even Bly. I don't know why {and I'm not going to research it} but it sounds like the manosphere might be trying to legitimize itself by tying itself to older more respected poets and intellectuals like Bly exploring the masculine identity in poetry versus tools like Tuck Maxxx, Erik Von Markovic {Mystery} and other rapists who think women are nothing more than vaginal rubix cubes to be solved like puzzles and enticed like cats.



> No one suggested the "golden age" of relationship was some ancient times, only that in less modern days the survival of the species was predicated on the successful balancing of the sexes. It is unfortunate that as technology advanced society first reacted with retrograde misogynism which prompted the more recent reaction of feminism which then propmpted the even more recent response that is the manosphere. The feminist attempt to address misogyny overshot the mark. The manosphere is the natural reaction to the imbalance that was created.


So the manosphere is just self defense against the feminists who are just trying to address {and sometimes over address} the old retrograde misogynism brought upon us by the industrial revolution?

There really is no need to fear women. They're just people. As Bly might say, part of the "seal-like masses". 




> "A Letter To Her" by Robert Bly
> 
> what I did I did
> I knew that I loved you
> ...


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Again, all I can say is kudos to you. But you can't and don't speak for every man. it is not a matter of being willing or weak to have feminism define a man, the fact of the matter is that many men are not even aware it is happening to them. Our society "tells" men how they are to act. If you avoided this instruction (which judging from your responses you not only did NOT avoid, but swallowed hook line and sinker) then good for you. But the fact is that many do not avoid it and only realize it too late. 
As for Glover and Bly, I guess no one should learn from their mistakes because well they made mistakes and that taints everything they have to say. Besides they are egotistical and/or hippes, but Ramsey is a Christian! So it does not matter what he did! Thanks for clarifying that point for me. 
And FTR the length of time you have been married no more defines a man or what he knows about marriage than the color of his socks. By your account I should be golden - or nearly so. I was married 24 years, I was almost an expert! But alas all that expertise meant nothing in the end. 
You are a "man" I guess since you are married, so quit opining about things you know nothing about.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Ynot said:


> Again, all I can say is kudos to you. But you can't and don't speak for every man. it is not a matter of being willing or weak to have feminism define a man, the fact of the matter is that many men are not even aware it is happening to them. Our society "tells" men how they are to act. If you avoided this instruction (which judging from your responses you not only did NOT avoid, but swallowed hook line and sinker) then good for you. But the fact is that many do not avoid it and only realize it too late.
> As for Glover and Bly, I guess no one should learn from their mistakes because well they made mistakes and that taints everything they have to say. Besides they are egotistical and/or hippes, but Ramsey is a Christian! So it does not matter what he did! Thanks for clarifying that point for me.
> And FTR the length of time you have been married no more defines a man or what he knows about marriage than the color of his socks. By your account I should be golden - or nearly so. I was married 24 years, I was almost an expert! But alas all that expertise meant nothing in the end.
> You are a "man" I guess since you are married, so quit opining about things you know nothing about.


Wow. Your panties are really in a knot over this.

I never said I speak for every man. You can read, worship, follow whatever crackpot hippie unrepentant adulterer author/guru/teacher you want.


BTW, filing for personal bankruptcy {after a creditors call} isn't a sin. It is nowhere near the moral equivalent of adultery. Adultery is more like rape, so unless you have an example of a great author who has helped you and millions of Americans who is also a convicted rapist then it's not really comparable. 

I think Dave Ramsey's financial ministry {which I have never taken but heard good things about} has certainly helped more marriages than anything in the manosphere.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Quality said:


> I never said I speak for every man. You can read, worship, follow whatever crackpot hippie unrepentant adulterer author/guru/teacher you want.


Gee, thanks for the permission to think freely.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

The risk is setting yourself for new disparities in unfairness.

"But this book, Dr., professional said to"

You have to realize that others do not always buy into objectively good advice or behavior.

I would first recommend evaluating how your new actions will impact your partner. You need to learn how to navigate those, otherwise you will step out of the advice you are trying to follow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Quality said:


> There really is no need to fear women. They're just people. As Bly might say, part of the "seal-like masses".


I don't think anyone in the manosphere says that we should fear women. Without the government holding a gun to men's heads if they should say the wrong words to a woman, or just become annoying to that woman, for any or no reason, there would be nothing to fear.

I hope you never find out exactly what "He scares me" means when said by a woman to one of the uniformed thugs who are standing by, ready to throw you out of the house and into jail.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

NMMNG is not for everyone. It's for Nice Guys. If you don't fall into that particular behavior category, you won't get anything from it. If you DO fall into that category, you may or may not get anything from it, depending on how open you are to honestly evaluating yourself.

As to your question--should you read it with your wife--no. Some books are written to be read by couples. The thing is with Nice Guy behavior is that it's not a Couple problem. It's a YOU problem. Your wife doesn't need to be involved because it's not her issue, it's yours. As has been stated here earlier, involving her in a problem that is inherently yours is actually yet another manifestation of that same problem. 

I don't know your backstory as of the time I write this, but assuming you actually are a Nice Guy, it can be an eye-opener about the root motivations behind that behavior. And once you understand where that behavior is coming from, you'll want to change it for your OWN sake, and not for the sake of your relationship with your wife or anyone else. It's a matter of self respect.


ETA: After writing the book, Dr Glover actually changed his mind about whether it should be read with your spouse. He now advocates for reading it yourself.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Quality said:


> Wow. Your panties are really in a knot over this.
> 
> I never said I speak for every man. You can read, worship, follow whatever crackpot hippie unrepentant adulterer author/guru/teacher you want.
> 
> ...


My "panties" are in a knot about your total ignorance of the subject matter. And whether you can admit it to yourself or not, you do claim to speak for every man. Because, you know, feminism doesn't define you or the men you know. But as I have pointed out it does define many men, and it also isn't a matter of them being weak or willing. Often times they are not even aware of it, because we are immersed in a culture full of it. You also seem to confuse the entire manosphere with one small extreme aspect of it (PUA). Finally equating adultery (typically between two consenting adults) with rape is a way more crackpot idea than anything Bly or Glover have written. Adios!


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

tech-novelist said:


> I don't think anyone in the manosphere says that we should fear women. Without the government holding a gun to men's heads if they should say the wrong words to a woman, or just become annoying to that woman, for any or no reason, there would be nothing to fear.
> 
> I hope you never find out exactly what "He scares me" means when said by a woman to one of the uniformed thugs who are standing by, ready to throw you out of the house and into jail.


Or his wife takes most of his assets just because thru a divorce.


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

One reason to read it with her, or at least tell her that you're reading it, is so that she doesn't freak out when you start changing your behaviour.

If my husband all of a sudden started acting very distant, cold, uncommunicative, flirting with other women, and so on, I would start to worry. And if there were no reassurances to explain what was going on, I would assume that he was having an affair, falling out of love, or otherwise getting ready to leave me.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

wild jade said:


> One reason to read it with her, or at least tell her that you're reading it, is so that she doesn't freak out when you start changing your behaviour.
> 
> If my husband all of a sudden started acting very distant, cold, uncommunicative, flirting with other women, and so on, I would start to worry. And if there were no reassurances to explain what was going on, I would assume that he was having an affair, falling out of love, or otherwise getting ready to leave me.


So where does Glover advise a man to "start acting very distant, cold, uncommunicative, flirting with other women, and so on"? I must have missed that in the book. The gist of the book is not about being an A**hole or a jerk, but about becoming an integrated man, capable of looking out for his own best interests instead of continually sacrificing his best interests for those of the people that surround him.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

HobbyJunky said:


> Thank you to all that have posted. I'll be honest when I say that what I've read thus far hasn't really "gripped" me (about half-way through chapter 2). The redundance of information makes it seem very brain-washy. It also seems that many of the statements I've come across have been written in such a way that they could relate to any man (or woman). With that said, I do plan to still read the book because it was recommended over and over - but if I continue, it will definitely be by myself.


That was my experience as well. I think there was some temple in the ancient world (Rome? Greece?) that was famous for its correct predictions, pretty much gave out generalities...


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Quality said:


> But Dr. Glover's first marriage didn't fail because he was "being a 'Nice Guy'" ~ it failed because he was a selfish entitled cheater lacking the character to either honor his vows or divorce the wife of his youth respectfully {in a manner befitting a supposed MAN of his masculine stature}.
> 
> I've also witnessed a lot of failed marriage due to men becoming complete a$$hats after having read Dr. Glover and other manosphere perverts and cheaters articles and information. My wife and I tried helping one couple where the husband had pretty much become a serial cheater and blaming it all on a mid-life crisis. I knew he was reading some of the manosphere crap when he tried justifying his behavior because her "N" number was too high when he met and started dating her ~ like SHE was the issue in their marriage and like Dr. Glover he never should have married her and divorce was the way to fix that error.


None of which has ANYTHING to do with Nice Guy syndrome.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> None of which has ANYTHING to do with Nice Guy syndrome.


Except for the fact that the poster you quoted ignores the fact that lack of authentic character is one of the attributes that defines a Nice Guy


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