# Greetings from Rock Bottom. Or,



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

*Greetings from Rock Bottom.*

That's what I'll call it, since I'm at the point where I announce, "I am powerless" to STOP falling into the traps that perpetuate the conflict cycle with my husband. So I am officially seeking professional help FOR MYSELF.

In other words, I had my first individual counseling session this morning. This is a good thing. I'm carrying a lot of resentment toward my husband, sorrow for the way our marriage started, and anger at myself for jumping into it without giving myself the time I needed. *I* have to deal with and heal that stuff.

For anyone who's been following my melodrama, here's an update:
The ugliest point of the other night's fight was when, in a fit of rage, my H called me a b****. 
The second ugliest point was the next morning when, in a fit of rage, he refused to apologize for calling me a b****, and then blamed me for all our conflicts. 

So after that I left town to go to a friend's, an hour and a half away. I texted him something like "Believe it or not, I empathize with your stress. I'll deal with me. you deal with you. i love you."
I didn't expect to hear anything from him last night, but got this text:
"Going to bed darling...sleep well...I love you...good night..."

"Darling" means **** to me when it comes from the same person who called me *****
So whatever.

Got a text this morning:
"good morning honey, hope you slept well..I'm off to run an errand and fix the car...don't forget to do xyz tonight..."
As if I'm going to forget MY responsibility.

I feel a strong need to maintain distance from him right now.
So I'm back in town because I HAVE to be, for the abovementioned responsibility.

I'm wrestling with some guilt, because I'M the reason his car is dead--I left the lights on the other night and drained the battery. 
So that means he is traipsing the streets on this the rainiest and windiest day we've seen in awhile.
Under low-conflict circumstances, I would be driving him around to work, etc., to get the car fixed.
OTOH, maybe a day of roaming the windy, rainy day will do him some good. 
But it's really windy out there 

I am blatantly avoiding him. I texted him back to let him know I'm home, and that I made plans with girlfriends tonight. 

And I'm avoiding being at home so I don't have to be near him.
My gut tells me this is right for me at the moment.
I'm also not wearing my wedding rings.
I am detaching.

I don't even know if he'll show up at the church where I'm doing my "thing" tonight. Under low-conflict circumstances, we'd go together. I'd be at home, doing my thing, getting ready, and we'd trot on over there together. It is, after all, the church where HE used to be employed.

But I don't expect him to show up, and I ain't gonna cry if he doesn't. That is a VERY new way for me to think--a little more independently. I'm detaching. It hurts and I am scared, but I'm more scared of falling into the old traps again. And I'm more scared of and repelled by the idea that I should allow him to explode, blame, rage, and cuss at me.

I'm really mad at myself that I participated in the conflict when I KNOW BETTER, but it kicked my butt into therapy, and proved that I most likely need it. Things can only get better.

The therapist told me not to analyze away my emotions. Allow myself to feel them. (Ironic, since my H's biggest complaint about me is that I have too many emotional needs)
He said concern myself with taking care of myself on the inside, rather than with the external interaction with my H.
He said trust the part of me that feels a need for distance right now.
He said deal with one emotion at a time.
Then he said, "See you Tuesday." 

One more thing: Part of what drove my H to flip out the other night was his stress about money.
He resents me for dragging him to MC when he's the only one working and at his worst he thinks I'M the "root cause" of all the problems anyway.
THEREFORE, once I defend my graduate thesis in 3 weeks, I'm getting my butt back to work substitute teaching. I'm calling the sub agency tomorrow to get myself activated in their system.

Here I am, folks.

I am so grateful to everyone who's offered me support, advice, a kick in the butt, or some combination. 
Thanks for reading through this.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm STILL torturing myself with: "should I call and see if he needs a ride, the poor baby..."
whatever. How many days a week do I go without driving my car.
The repair shop is less than a mile away.

And if I recall, yesterday his words were:
"i don't want to talk to you. All I want from you is a jump. If you don't want to give me a jump, I'll find someone else to do it."

let him figure out on his own if he needs me or not.
And let him learn that if he "needs a jump" (or anything practcal), he'll get it if he's NICE TO ME.

Am I on the right track, people??
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

In MY opinion....100% on track. I'm really glad to see you detaching. Even happier to see you in IC. Hang in there, C.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

Sorry to hear you've had a setback.

A few things I don't get:

- Why are you not wearing your wedding rings? Regardless of how you feel, taking them off to me, which he will notice, seems like a passive-aggressive act that will not re-stabilize anything in the relationship.

- I can understand de-prioritizing him, getting some time to yourself, etc. But you are going about it as though you are punishing him. There's a fine line between detaching and punishment.

Working on you is good, but you continue to want him to work on him and he is not open to doing anymore work on him. You CANNOT make him do any work to improve himself if he doesn't want to. You are just going to be let-down and disappointed each and every time you badger him about counseling. 

You can only work on you - which you have recognized, and you can change some of the dynamics of your relationship even if he doesn't go to counseling or actively participate in those changes.

Based on reading your post(s), you have some of the relationship disaster dynamics that YOU can learn how to defuse and de-escalate so that when conflicts arise, everyone feels like they've come out a winner.

Some of what I've seen, based on your posts, is:

- Negative Interpretation
- Withdrawal and Avoidance
- Hidden Issues
- Expectations

What I surmised, from reading this particular post is: 

- Negative interpretation of what he says/does - you hear it, but you interpret what is being said in a negative fashion instead of what's actually being said. A good example of that was your comment "as if I'm going to forget my responsibility." I don't believe that is what he said.

- Avoidance. Not wanting to bring up certain subjects, because they will surely put him on the defensive and then you will be considered a b****.

- Taking things too personally. While I have been called a b**** and other names that I considered uncalled for, is it one of your deal breakers? If not, then move on. If so, then tell him and work it out.

- Learn to think BEFORE you speak, this can, at times, deflate a conflict or keep it from escalating.

There are two books I am reading that are great in discussing negative interpretation, how to recognize it; conflict resolution; resolving hidden issues; and problem solving.

12 Hours to a Great Marriage, A Step-by-Step Guide to Making Love 

Fight for Your Marriage

Check them out - I've been where you are and it took a lot of looking at myself and what I was contributing to the situation to recognize that it wasn't ALL HIS FAULT. Hard to admit, but negative interpretation of things he said/did and not fighting fair were not helping my situation in the least.

I am a work in progress, but with my newfound knowledge things are getting better and most of all - I feel better about myself and that is the most important thing.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

I applaud you for realizing that you need IC to work out your own issues before you can work on the marriage.

I am not trying to bash you, but to "gently" as well as I can, let you know that it can be turned around, even if it's just you doing the work right now.

And to make sure you recognize, that it's not ALL HIM, you have issues too (just like the rest of us), and the soooner you are totally honest with what you bring to the table (good/bad), the easier it will be for you to change your dyanmic in the relationship which can turn it around.

Good luck!


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

The wedding ring thing is only when I'm by myself.
It's purely an emotional impulse, FOR ME only. 
I feel hurt and pissed, so I don't "feel" like wearing them. Nothing deeper than that.
I'm negatively interpreting the reminder because I'm feeling hurt and self-protective. Period.
Call me a whiney baby. I'm hurt, fed up, and pissed off. But I won't mistreat him.
I won't ask a damn thing of him.

Current dilemma: he just texted, out with mutual friends for happy hour (they had invited me too). 
I'm thinking of stopping by, being cheerful in his presence--with the friends--but cool temp.

I ain't gonna lie----I feel scared of him right now.
He is a big mean scary monster thru my emotional lens.
It's not rational. But it just IS.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

If he's a "big mean scary monster" right now, then why do you want to go spend time with him and and friends? Are you trying to show him "look...I'm being all nice to our friends, but I'm being cool towards you"? 

Take some time, C. You're in a emotional state right now that spending time with him *at this particular time* might not be a good idea. Are you having any expectations of how he *should* behave towards you on this outing?


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mm, I'm torn.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I know you are. All the more reason to maybe take some time to think about this. Or NOT think for a little while. I'm just afraid that in your current state of mind, if he does (or doesn't) do something that you think/feel he should do/say, you're going to be set farther back than you are right now.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


> I know you are. All the more reason to maybe take some time to think about this. Or NOT think for a little while. I'm just afraid that in your current state of mind, if he does (or doesn't) do something that you think/feel he should do/say, you're going to be set farther back than you are right now.


I don't expect anything from him. Nada.

Know what might set me forward?

Looking like I am a happy person who isn't affected by his childish temper tantrum.
Otoh....I do not want to be near him.
And I do not want to reward his bad behavior with my presence.

The only thing that'll set me back or forward is MY actions in this moment.
At least I realize that...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I don't expect anything from him. Nada.
> 
> Know what might set me forward?
> 
> ...


It still sounds like you're trying to "teach him a lesson" here. That's just my take, and I could be way off base. I'll admit that.  At this point (the man DID have to walk in the wind and rain b/c you ran his car battery down)..are you sure that your presence is a reward? 

If you don't want to be around him. Don't. It's really that simple. There is nothing wrong with detaching a little. The old actions speaking louder than words thing.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Im going to go and have fun with our friends. 
And stop analyzing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Im going to go and have fun with our friends.
> And stop analyzing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope you have a great time!


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

He greeted me with a hug and a "how are you feeling?"
I'm keepin' my guard up. 
When I let it down and start *expecting,* I get BURNED.
But, having fun with our friends 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Leah L (Jan 11, 2011)

Hi there! I am so sorry to hear your frustration. 

I don't know what I can offer but our relationship issues sound so very similar....

I vote for trust your gut. Don't pander or worry about him right now. 

I had a long relationship once (13yrs), and while we didn't end up together in the long run, my day to day dynamic with him was fun and respectful.

I have been watching my husband closely, I shared this with him. The last 2 weeks have been great. The first week he was gone, and he was great for about 4 days. Yup, that is the guy I love. 

Last night he came home in a funk because he is frustrated at work. It wasn't even anything that important, just a "blah" day. I realize that is all it takes with him. Moments later he is pissy because I didn't do something "right", then he won't eat dinner with me - snarled at what I was eating??!! :scratchhead: He asks me how my visit to the chiro was. It was great...but he turns that into how are we ever going to vacation when I "constantly" need my back fixed? 

Ha, I can't win. I realize the "it" doesn't matter, he'll find something. I laughed at him last night, didn't respond to his digs and did my own thing. The eve was salvaged only in that we didn't argue. We spent it separately.

Today, I forgot something minor which I acknowledged in front of him earlier. My mistake, I know better than that, don't I? Last night is not over, and I just gave him an opening!

He jumped on it then he won't look at me, cold shoulder, yadda, yadda. I said goodbye TWICE to him before he mumbled something in response not looking at me still.

I am almost laughing now, reading the "note" he left me....accusing me of leaving without a "goodbye".

Yup, Here I go again. 

I told him that he can't seemingly go a week without starting an argument with me. Yesterday was day 5 for us 

You know what is funny, is I have been in a great mood the last 2 weeks. I've been busy, laughing with people....and then my husband comes home and before I know it the place is thick with tension and all of the fun is just vaporized. I am not one to absolve myself of responsibility but the more I watch my hubby, the more I see this pattern. 

So he will come home tonight and launch into a diatribe of what I did wrong, what I should do, and then he'll undoubtedly launch into another session of why "I'm too sensitive".

I share these details because I am sure you can see my situation clearly. Its always easier to see when you aren't clouded by love and hope for a relationship/marriage. 

I still plan on trying to make this work but we (sadly) are on a time line these days. I am barely married, I don't believe this should be so hard so early. Where was our "honeymoon" period? Here we are on the brink of retirement, I moved, retired, this is my first marriage, everything in life is so good and yet my husband and I can't get along when life is so easy. That is a crushing realization for me. But I am asking myself, is 4 out of 7 days going to be enough for me? Will my self esteem survive repeated hits? Do I really want to spent my life with someone who chastises me when I laughingly acknowledge I forgot the darn garlic at the store yesterday?

I hope my experience helps, and I sincerely hope your situation is more promising than mine.

Good luck.


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

> The therapist told me not to analyze away my emotions. Allow myself to feel them. (Ironic, since my H's biggest complaint about me is that I have too many emotional needs)
> He said concern myself with taking care of myself on the inside, rather than with the external interaction with my H.


"Feel" them means to actually own the feeling, which also means recognizing it and taking responsibility for it (i.e., it's yours, not anybody else's). Nobody wants to hear about it if they don't ask. I'm also not really sure that talking about them helps, to be honest. They're a sign something is going on, but you'll never feel anything but confused about why you're 'feeling' something f you don't get the direct emotional 'stuff' out of the way.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Not sure I fully understand, since I've always felt better if I talk about some emotion.
But I do know what you mean about owning it and taking responsibility for it instead of putting it on someone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Not sure I fully understand, since I've always felt better if I talk about some emotion.
> But I do know what you mean about owning it and taking responsibility for it instead of putting it on someone else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



IDK, I find it more helpful to talk myself through it trying to find what the 'simple' parts of it are. Or just write it down, to figure out what's associated with it closely. It's too easy for me to go off on all sorts of tangents if I'm talking to someone else. I am kind of an eccentric, so it can be confusing for others.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

My problem isn't that I don't know what my emotions are.
It's that my husband doesn't care.
(sometimes)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## less_disgruntled (Oct 16, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> My problem isn't that I don't know what my emotions are.
> It's that my husband doesn't care.
> (sometimes)
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I can understand that. You are obviously upset about it. It'll be a sore spot. I'm going to guess it is for your husband, too. Try not to touch it too much when you aren't cleaning and bandaging it. And since he's obviously shown an inability to give a **** about that, now probably isn't the time to see if he's come to jesus on the issue. Yet.


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: Greetings from Rock Bottom.*



credamdóchasgra said:


> In other words, I had my first individual counseling session this morning. This is a good thing. I'm carrying a lot of resentment toward my husband, sorrow for the way our marriage started, and anger at myself for jumping into it without giving myself the time I needed. *I* have to deal with and heal that stuff.
> 
> The therapist told me not to analyze away my emotions. Allow myself to feel them. (Ironic, since my H's biggest complaint about me is that I have too many emotional needs)
> He said concern myself with taking care of myself on the inside, rather than with the external interaction with my H.
> ...


:smthumbup: this is great and your counselor sounds very good.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

You people rock. Just sayin.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Update:

My H would like everything to be back to normal; if I warmed up to him or initiated sex, he'd welcome it.
He's doing small talk, acting like there was no fight.

As for me, I did apologize for ruining his car battery.
He thanked me for going away for the night "to take a break."
but he never apologized for flipping out and cussing at me, and hasn't brought up the issues that had crawled up his butt in the first place.

So...

I'm keeping my temp cool and taking care of myself, still feel the need to distance myself.

We are scheduled for MC tomorrow.
In his fit, he declared he'd cancel and never go back.

He tends to throw outrageous threats as a weapon in arguments.
As a self-defense tactic, I figure another purpose of it is to scare me.
So, I'll understand that and not be scared.

I'll act like that was never said, and tomorrow remind him we're scheduled at 3.
If he gives me a hard time, I'll tell him:
"ok. Well, FYI...we get charged for today's session even if we don't show up. If we go, we can discuss what we're going to do about continuing or not continuing MC. I'm going to go and I hope you join me."

then it's on him. It's not like him to blow off a responsibility, so I want to trust he'll show up.
BUT, I know he's on the brink of ditching MC, so I can't be sure.

I feel like that's the best way to handle the MC thing tomorrow. 
Advice?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Honestly C...I think you have a good handle on the best way to deal with that particular issue. You can't MAKE him go, but what you plan on telling him along with stating that you're going regardless...that's really about all that you can do. Knowing you're going to be charged anyway....................

That's just my opinion. Of course you could throw a few threats yourself, but THAT IS NO GOOD. I think you're doing the right thing, fwiw.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

major misfit said:


> Honestly C...I think you have a good handle on the best way to deal with that particular issue. You can't MAKE him go, but what you plan on telling him along with stating that you're going regardless...that's really about all that you can do. Knowing you're going to be charged anyway....................
> 
> That's just my opinion. Of course you could throw a few threats yourself, but THAT IS NO GOOD. I think you're doing the right thing, fwiw.


And I'm wearing a rubber band to snap on my wrist to stop me from bringing it up tonight when I'm tempted to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

Nothing like good, old fashioned pain to stop you from doing something. 
Good luck in MC tomorrow, C...


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

He's coming to MC.
Let's see how it goes.
I'll stay calm, cool, and very careful with my words and emotional expressions.
He expects the opposite.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Heres how MC went:

God help me, it was more of the same.
He vented the same stuff about his parents and his childhood, and still projected blame onto me for doing "what they did."
Same complaints, same defensiveness.
He did get tearful and said he felt "sorrow" for his upbringing, but that he "shouldn't" feel that way because he should be "stronger" than that.
I had a couple moments where I defended myself, and responded and made suggestions, which he's not ready to receive.
But I was calm.
He said I "need to prove myself.
He admitted he's depressed and uncertain about our $ future, but in no way acknowledged that might be causing his bad reactions.
His blame receptors are still outward directing.
We're scheduled for same time next Monday.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> The wedding ring thing is only when I'm by myself.
> It's purely an emotional impulse, FOR ME only.
> I feel hurt and pissed, so I don't "feel" like wearing them. Nothing deeper than that.
> I'm negatively interpreting the reminder because I'm feeling hurt and self-protective. Period.
> ...


I never meant that you were a whiney baby.

You have the right to feel hurt and fed up about anything you wish.

I, for one, am not trying to invalidate your feelings - they are what they are and you are entitled to them.

My point was - keep looking at yourself here and less at him. He is the only person that can change himself - you can change you - sucks, but that's how it works.

Only you can decide if you can live with him "the way he is." If not, then your decision is made...


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Heres how MC went:
> 
> God help me, it was more of the same.
> He vented the same stuff about his parents and his childhood, and still projected blame onto me for doing "what they did."
> ...


He's not ready to accept:

- Our past is our past. Sure it shapes who we are today, but as an adult you have the freedom of choices. If YOU continue to make bad choices, you cannot continue to blame those on the past.
- His responsibility in where things are today. The bottom has to drop out or the light bulb has to go off before he can finally admit and say to himself - okay I see where I contribute to the state of our relationship - and he's not ready.
- That he could be wrong. Easier to point blame at some else and throw his guilt and shortcomings onto you.
- His lot in life IS HIS FAULT. Sounds like he likes to place the blame elsewhere for every bad choice he makes. This might not ever change or be very hard to change - when someone goes through life not accepting that the choices they've made have brought them to where they are - well...they continue to make them over and over and over again.

Glad to see he went to MC though and that he's going next week.

Have you asked the counselor to set a plan for what you want to resolve out of MC?

Such as:

- I want to better our communication with each other.
- I want us to get on the same page as far as finances go.
- I want a better sex life.

Just some type of blueprint so you're not going around in the same circles every week?

Good luck - keep your chin up!


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I see all this.
He does not see all this.
He won't see any of this until he's ready to see it.

As long as he sees mistakes coming from me, it distracts his view from anything he's contributing.

So my main focus is working on ME, taking care of me.

And backing off of him.

Any and all efforts I make to repair the relationship will be wasted.
For God knows what reason, he's not in the frame of mind to partner with me in a forward-solution oriented way.

He has no faith in me, us, or relationships in general---right now.

For now, from my end...less is more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm sorry I don't really know your story, so grain of salt with my post.

Based on what has been written:

1. You had a fight with mutual name calling. The next day he tried to make up by being nice via text, which you took as him being sarcastic and wouldn't let it go.

2. He's communicated that you expect too much emotional support from him that he's not able to give you.

3. In counselling he shared his feelings about his childhood and his insecurities about being able to provide, which you were sick of hearing about.

3. Further comments made here are a bunch of diagnosis of him based on third hand info from his angry wife, where none of us really have business saying what he can or can't accept since he's not here to defend himself or clarify.

Is that right so far?

Can I suggest that he's basically acting like a guy. We generally get over fights pretty quickly. His insecurity about being able to provide is part of his self image as provider, and is deeply felt. He's made an effort to communicate, which is probably difficult for him. I don't understand why you are so negative about the actions he's taking other than you are incredibly resentful and it's polluting the present with past garbage.

What exactly do you want from him? He's not a woman and can't relate to you like one, so it feels to me like your expectations are unrealistic.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

seeking sanity said:


> .
> 
> Is that right so far?


No. There's quite a bit more than that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

But your insight about his valid insecurity as a provider is a helpful reminder to me, so thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

And the name calling was not mutual, btw.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

credamdóchasgra said:


> And the name calling was not mutual, btw.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I apologize, I misread that part.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

*Re: Greetings from Rock Bottom.*



seeking sanity said:


> I apologize, I misread that part.


No big deal. I appreciate your taking the time.

I've been on TAM for months. In MC for months.

Trying so hard. Trying NOT to try so hard. Trying to see from his POV. Being told MY pov isn't important. Being the target of verbal venom whenever his helpless little boy is triggered by conflict. Being blamed 100% for that conflict.

I'm losing my mind. When you find what you're seeking, could ya send some my way?


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