# OldShirt's female initiation or signaling receptiveness.



## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

*On another thread OldShirt said:
~I think many men (myself included) are clueless to female initiation and it goes completely over their heads because their partners do not initiate the way men initiate.*

Lots of men get the eye-roll, we just did it, the not again, is that all you think about, or starfish/mannequin sex from long term partners. It also happens to many women but is slightly different ways.

My general question is women, what signs do you exhibit when you are interested in a person generally (no sex expected right now) and what do you do or say if you are interested in some type of body contact that leads to more than just a kiss or two?

My W used to be OK with me rubbing her feet for several evenings while we watched TV or a movie but like a lot of people, often got too tired for sex. If I pressed the issue and I could get past her "we just did it" (yea 10 days ago) and did more foot or back rubs, most of the time if 2 weeks went by, then sex did happen. For me it got to be more work than pleasure so that ended and now we are room mates with separate bed rooms for many years.

If I am out and about I play married and don't flirt. I still would like to know if someone is interested in me for more than my handyman skills. I seem to attract a lot of men and women that need help fixing things or setting them up/assembly.

My very long term marriage feels dead and I have wanted to end it for close to 20 years. I stayed M trying to fix things for close to 8 years, then stayed mostly out of obligation. Now the BS is getting too old to play nice and continue out of obligation anymore.

FYI, we don't do anything together except if I cook (almost all of the time) or I am fixing/setting up something for my W. She does next to zero for me except tell me why I am wrong.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Generally one can't rub a dates feet if out and about on a date. But I'm not a woman so I'm holding out on commenting what I've personally encountered pre and post marriage. 
W and I have a great pattern that always works great.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

I can say it all with my eyes and a sly smirk on my lips 

To the OPs question when I want some.... I send my husband dirty texts while I am at work. Or I tell him "let's stay in and have some fun tonight", or I tell him be showered and ready for me when I get home.


Or if we our lounging on the couch, I will turn that peck on the lips into a passionate kiss. I'll encourage him to touch me all over - I'll give him clear signals I am enjoying his touch and want more.

But I enjoy sex. I want sex, I would never say "we did it x numbers of days ago". I don't think a woman who seems to see sex as a duty is going to initiate much if ever.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I shouldnthave said:


> I can say it all with my eyes and a sly smirk on my lips
> 
> To the OPs question when I want some.... I send my husband dirty texts while I am at work. Or I tell him "let's stay in and have some fun tonight", or I tell him be showered and ready for me when I get home.
> 
> ...


This. My answers would be unhelpful because I have a high drive.

I was, however, married to a very low drive man. There were no subtle initiations to "pick up on" because, since he was very low drive, it just didn't occur to him. He didn't initiate because he didn't think about sex.

So I think the tough answer is that a woman who couldn't care less about sex isn't going to send signals. And they will probably intentionally ignore anything you send out that is subtle.

And as for those who send a naughty text at 10:00 am but then do nothing that night? I think they think if they toss out a gesture, maybe you'll forget by suppertime. Or THEY have forgotten by suppertime. Or they had a moment of sexiness at 10:00, but it was gone by 5:00.

Honestly....sans health or others issues that make sex a "can't," I have zero sympathy for spouses who deprive their partners of sex. They are breaking a vow, whether they want to admit it or not.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

I agree with this completely:



I shouldnthave said:


> I don't think a woman who seems to see sex as a duty is going to initiate much if ever.


Initiation has to stem from an active desire to do it. If a woman is low-drive or views sex in any fashion that is a chore or responsibility, then she isn't going to actively go out and seek it. I think for some women who are like this, being pressured more often or even being teased for it will likely result in their developing resentment not only for their partner but also the act itself which will simply encourage the avoidance altogether. They might even harbor feelings of inadequacy themselves or decide that their partner is being obnoxious or even obscene as a means of coping with their own sense of discomfort with the dynamic (i.e. lashing out or intentionally shaming their partner as a defense mechanism). 

I can't speak for low-drive women since I'm not one, but in my own case when I was still in the dating world if I was interested in a potential partner it was all about the eye contact, sincere discussions (like passionately talking about mutually exciting topics), and actively seeking out one-on-one time together. I've never been touchy-feely when I'm not already in a relationship but a woman can say volumes with her eyes if she wants, and that was a large part of my communication outside of sheer bluntness. 

These days if I want to initiate, I just simply do it. I might blatantly tease throughout the day with texts or touch-and-runs if it's my husband's day off, but when it comes down to there being an opportunity, I just go for it. If I don't feel like simply jumping him, then I'll be sure to parade around in hardly anything at all (or just simply nothing at all) and deliberately catch his eye with how I walk, move, or stretch out until he can't stand it any longer.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

My wife gives the raised eyebrow thing for her primary "initiation". she even sends me emojis with the eyebrow thing...lol

Second, she will sneak up behind me and start grabbing my junk secretively and whispering in my ear when I get home from work.


Third, is when we are in bed and I'm basically asleep and she will start by grabbing my jimmy and stroking. Or dive for a quick BJ. lol

The feet touching in bed thing is a must. She and I can't sleep unless we are touching. But that doesn't mean sex for us. That is just normal.

But the rejection sometimes that happens is there as well. which still boggles my male mind! I am offering a tongue lashing for free, no paybacks needed. But she turns it down, saying it's too late. Now ladies, what is the god's green earth is up with THAT! lol It's not like I'm going to turn down a BJ....Wants and needs my friends, wants and needs. lol


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

*I shouldnthave
I send my husband dirty texts while I am at work. Or I tell him "let's stay in and have some fun tonight", or I tell him be showered and ready for me when I get home.*

Well, that never happen or anything like that to me. WTG I shouldnthave. 

Closet I got was "I think I am ovulating, lets make this baby today" but that was in 1972.


*ButWeAreStrange
....... if I was interested in a potential partner it was all about the eye contact, sincere discussions (like passionately talking about mutually exciting topics), and actively seeking out one-on-one time together. I've never been touchy-feely when I'm not already in a relationship but a woman can say volumes with her eyes if she wants, and that was a large part of my communication outside of sheer bluntness. *

I sort of know eye contact is one of the important clues that show interest. About the energetic talking about a topic, I run into that sometimes but it also seems that the other person is the type that sort of dominates some conversations. Then there are folks that don't do much and don't have much to say and they are more difficult when judging their interest in any of my actions or interests. 

The trick I see from my point of view is what constitutes interest in a subject, what amount of that interest is in me as a temporary friend in the moment, and what is the long term interest. I try to do small favors for people and was told I was buying their interest in me. I backed off on some of my handyman skills so I an not coming across as some resource for the other person. I am trying to make any relationships balanced or even-steven as they say. I even had one woman say my W was a lucky woman because I was married to her. That was a nice compliment but it doesn't make up the room mate status into a real marriage.

I may have started off with too strong of a situation with the 
what signs do you exhibit when you are interested in a person generally (no sex expected right now) and what do you do or say if you are interested in some type of body contact that leads to more than just a kiss or two? As far as fixing or changing the marriage, to me it is a lost cause.

I am guessing the top 5% or top 10% of people are sent signals that someone really likes them so I see in this case the clues are fairly strong. I am also guessing the average people do not get sent strong signals if someone has some attraction to them. And then there are signals to be courteous/social/situational/event and maybe some signals that have something to do with a person's profession or social class.

What I am trying to do now is develop more friends outside my normally small social circle. My W doesn't want to do anything with me. She only wants to watch TV all day and even eats meals that I cook, in front of the TV. I even find eating with her somewhat stressful at times. I go out once a week and have lunch by myself and go for bike rides in the late afternoon, hoping I meet someone interesting or discover something new.

I tried a few "Meet-UP' sessions, two investment clubs, and a bicycle group. Most people are younger than I am so when the group session ends everyone seems to go their own way. The people that like beer do have after activity sessions but that is not my thing. I have attend a few brew-pub events but I don't fit in.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, you want to know if a woman is interested in you, right? She will maintain eye contact and she will smile and she might find a reason to touch your arm and/or compliment you on something. When you walk away, find a reason to casually turn around to see if her eyes are following you. Or, you might get lucky and she'll simply ask if you're available.

As for getting into your wife's panties, forget the foot rubs, back rubs and head-neck rubs. Her on-switch is not located on her instep. It is in her brain. You need to start several hours/days ahead of time to get her in the mood and let her mind play catch-up with yours.

Of course, there are women who need no advance notice and will drop panties on command - but, you're not married to one of those so work with what you've got.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Fencrider
Third, is when we are in bed and I'm basically asleep and she will start by grabbing my jimmy and stroking. Or dive for a quick BJ.*

In nearly 50 years I can remember twice where my W was making a move on me when I was sleeping. As far as BJ, the score is one febel attempt, but it didn't go any where and we did some heavy -petting before we got M. Back then oral sex was considered perverted. Missionary (man up or down) and doggy was the generally accepted norm. 

I feel like I am from a different world or culture when i read about the sexual boldness shown by some people. But I can relate. I bought a new chest style freezer and had my W help me move it to the lower level of the house. After plugging in the freezer and transferring the food from the old upright freezer to the new chest freezer, I put my W on the chest freezer in a sitting position, made out for a little while, then took off her pants and got in a quickie. It was exciting but after, the encounter, I wondered if I went too far and too fast. What I didn't know then is some women like to be taken. I was under the impression all women only liked the slow romance type sex and then not too often.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Handy said:


> I sort of know eye contact is one of the important clues that show interest. About the energetic talking about a topic, I run into that sometimes but it also seems that the other person is the type that sort of dominates some conversations.
> 
> The trick I see from my point of view is what constitutes interest in a subject, *what amount of that interest is in me as a temporary friend in the moment, and what is the long term interest*.
> 
> ...


Okay a few thoughts. Are you trying to make new friends, or find an affair partner? Be real here. 

And if the marriage is dead, and your kids are grown, why aren't you seeking a divorce? 

As for your other thoughts above.... I am very forward woman, but even I wouldn't be sending signals that I "wanted something more than short term" or "interested in some type of body contact that leads to more than just a kiss or two"

Thats putting the chart way before the horse. First there is interest in you as a person, thats the conversation eye contact etc. Then there is flirting, come hither eyes etc - that invites a kiss. 

The kiss... the kiss will tell you where it will go from there. Its all a dance. 

An acquaintance isn't going to give you a look that tells you she wants to be your woman for the next 5 years and hump your brains out every night. 

Average people get signals - after all that is most of us! But usually you have to be available, and receptive as well. 

One step at time, the first would be divorce.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Blondilocks
So, you want to know if a woman is interested in you, right? She will maintain eye contact and she will smile and she might find a reason to touch your arm and/or compliment you on something. When you walk away, find a reason to casually turn around to see if her eyes are following you. Or, you might get lucky and she'll simply ask if you're available. *

I have actually had that happen to me several times but I sensed it was most or only on a "friends only" pertaining to the social event and nothing more basis such as on a bike ride or at yoga. I suppose my hang up is I do not want to impose on some people so i don't make any bolder moves.


As far as my W, it is a lost cause anything romantic, sexual, or any emotional bonding will occur. There have been too many insults to me, too many men are stupid comments, too many men are stubborn, too many men think with their little head, so I am on my own mentally just for self preservation. I even hear some of that from a few older women. Maybe it is they are done with men or they only want the top 10%.

I never come across anyone with an attitude like I shouldnthave has. That fact has me wondering do unicorns my age exist.

*I shouldnthave* 
Good questions and more to what I really should have said. I need to do some domestic chores so i might be tied up until very late today or sometime tomorrow.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

To be honest, I don't know that I am a unicorn, but according to the men I have dated, and my observations - I am A typical.

Most women are not as bold, forward and direct as I am (from what I have been told). To quote my husband's sweet nothings, the other night when we were having sex he said "you were such a Dom when I met you".

I have simply never hesitated to take the lead, to make my desires known, and I am unashamed of it.

If I like someone, and I am interested in him, I make it quite obvious.

I am also 39 (not sure how old you are), was raised in a sex positive environment, and grew up a Tom boy, the majority of my social circle are guys - I know how to communicate with guys (it's other women I tend to struggle with).

Now..... Many women do not have my same back ground. Many women are raised to be demure. They want men to chase and lead. They may be more shy and subtle with their signals. They may not be so sexually open.


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## WildMustang (Nov 7, 2017)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> But the rejection sometimes that happens is there as well. which still boggles my male mind! I am offering a tongue lashing for free, no paybacks needed. But she turns it down, saying it's too late. Now ladies, what is the god's green earth is up with THAT! lol


Have not read the whole thread yet, so disregard if another woman poster has already answered, but for me (a woman), after a good orgasm, I am wired for sound and cannot sleep for many hours unless we are having one of those marathons with multiple intense orgasms that leave me a quivering puddle of flesh and I pass out from exhaustion. So if it is late and I am needing to get to sleep, an orgasm from oral sex has the same effect as my drinking 2 pots of coffee. Men are different. One orgasm relaxes them and they want sleep immediately.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Handy said:


> I bought a new chest style freezer and had my W help me move it to the lower level of the house. After plugging in the freezer and transferring the food from the old upright freezer to the new chest freezer, I put my W on the chest freezer in a sitting position, made out for a little while, then took off her pants and got in a quickie. It was exciting but after, the encounter, I wondered if I went too far and too fast. What I didn't know then is some women like to be taken. I was under the impression all women only liked the slow romance type sex and then not too often.


I'm thinking this is the perfect example of the sort of thing you should be watching for. You were doing manly things, wrestling a big freezer around the house. Then you probably leaned into it to transfer the food. Then you manhandled your wife and she didn't say no. I suspect she had been admiring you while you were dealing with the freezer. Then you made out with her and she didn't say no. I suspect she liked the manhandling and wanted more. Then you undressed her and she didn't say no. I suspect she enjoyed the kissing and wanted more. Then you had sex with her and she didn't say no.

On another day, you could have initiated by saying "hey honey, the other day was so much fun, I'm going to go wrestle the freezer and rearrange the food again. Wanna come watch me?"

Sometimes, particularly with responsive desire, women think that by not saying no, they're communicating a yes. Sadly, in the age of enthusiastic consent, you have to get more from them before you can get more from them. So to speak.

My ex used to initiate by leaving the room without a word and disappearing; maybe to go get a drink, use the bathroom, was bored with TV, didn't feel well, whatever. I had no idea. Never came back, and was asleep in bed by the time I got to wondering what was taking so long. Then would complain in the morning that I hadn't eagerly followed! I wouldn't have expected to be followed if I had done that, so it never occurred to me to do so.

Everybody is different. You just have to figure them out and adapt, or separate as incompatible if you can't.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

@Handy, 

Not a woman, but this, again is one of those threads in a way that is hard to understand, for me. 

First the dead marriage/Dead Bedroom situation...You know I ask why? Why did you stay, why would you? Oh, yeah, for the kids, not. 

As far as woman initiating in a marriage, or any other relationship, I don't really understand the question. Most women that I am with don't have to initiate sex, it is just assumed that we are having sex. Yes some of them are as unambiguous as @I shouldnthave, or as wonderful - Just saying, but most, if they are with me, we all just assume that we are having sex the next time we are in the bedroom or in the house alone. 

So, to your UNDERLYING question, After you get a divorce!!!! then just start dating, be yourself and it will happen. 

Most women that date you, if they like you, and absolutely if they love you... you can assume that they want to sleep with you. 

And hey, big hint here, if they don't want to have sex with you... YOU DONT DATE THEM! And it is the same thing in a marriage, if they don't want to have sex with you, then you don't stay married to them.

Which is kind of like when your wife does not want to have sex with you, she DOES NOT LIKE YOU, She is not attracted to you, and she does not really love you in a romantic way. Yeah, she is comfortable with you, she like to cook with you, maybe she loves you like a brother, BUT SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU. 

Which kind of leads me to my basic misunderstanding of this particular type of thread, if you are not having sex with your wife, why are you still with her. 

I only wish my Ex W would have been stupid enough to not have sex with me, that is the one thing that I could have made me understand that she did not love me and it would have helped me divorce her many, many years before I finally did...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BluesPower said:


> @Handy,
> 
> Not a woman, but this, again is one of those threads in a way that is hard to understand, for me.
> 
> ...


This ^^^^^

The sex columnist Dan Savage has a good term for this which he calls "price for admission."

Everyone has a price of admission for being in a relationship with them. If they don't pay the price of admission, they don't get in - or don't stay in. 

For some people the price of admission may be things like a good career or good with kids and wanting to have a family. For others it could be things like many mutual interests or things like companionship and comfort etc. 

For a number of people that price of admission is things like intimacy and passion and love etc. 

Your price of admission must be something like stirring the soup together or something, because I am not really seeing what is in this marriage for you. 

Is it just having a paper filed in a cabinet at the courthouse that says you are legally married. Does that paper in the file cabinet at the courthouse mean that much to you?

Like Bluespower, I simply could not and would not be in a relationship with someone that was not attracted to me and did not want to have sex with me. 

And if someone wasn't attracted to me and didn't want to have a sexlife with me, they would not want to be in a relationship with me either because I would be trying to have sex with them all the time even if I did try to stay with them. 

It really comes down to values and price of admission. 

You may whine and moan and complain about being sexless. But at the end of the day it is clear that you really do not value sexuality and intimacy in a marriage/relationship because you continue to live day to day in a sexless existence. 

If you truly valued intimacy and sexuality, you would walk away from someone who doesn't want to have a sex life with you and you would find someone who does.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* I shouldnthave
Okay a few thoughts. Are you trying to make new friends, or find an affair partner? Be real here. *
To start with it has to be something along the line of a good friend. I am still married so that is all I can give at the moment. What i am finding is as people get older, they get more set in their ways and what they lik, so similar interests are an currently an issue. Also older people sometimes have physical limitations, different energy levels, and different amounts of activity money.

I find people that have issues and to me need to be rescued to a point but I don't want to be a knight in shining armor helping to bailing people out. I have a daughter and grandkids I help in maybe too many ways. I also don't want to be rescued because a few men and women I know can do more physically than I can and have a bigger recreational budget

I am going to suggest I am also somewhat of a "walking wounded"-slightly dysfunctional type in some areas or what some people call "has baggage" because I have been in my situation for a long time. That is just my take or opinion about myself. I have gone through some rough situations and came out with minimal damage by being extra vigilant in some areas. I might be too responsible in some ways. 

Most of my life I worked long hours so I never had a lot of friends or time for friends. Now that I have been retired for 5+ years, I am trying new activities. Some new things work and most are just not me.

* I shouldnthave
And if the marriage is dead, and your kids are grown, why aren't you seeking a divorce? *
Old school on my part where divorce was only for serious addictions, major affairs, or physical abuse. Also there is a major stigma that indicates a person that initiates a divorce is selfish. Then there is the possibility of a very costly legal situation. I have a lot of "meet your obligation" traits. 
My daughter thinks we would be better off separated, but she is also slightly self centered. 
A long time ago a marriage counselor asked why we were together. My W didn't want to go back to that person. My W wanted the counselor to "fix me," but that is really common.

Un like you, I was raised in a sex negative environment. When we got married my W was the sexy one but with some medical issues on both our parts the negativity crept back in to the relationship. Then my W got to a point after being exposed to the trend at the time "Co-dependency No More" and going back to work in a mental health facility, it became all about what she wanted and didn't want. 

That happened in the early 1990's. According to her, women were under a man's thumb for too long and needed to put them self first. I even audited a college "woman's Issues" class trying to understand this independent woman thing so I thought I better go along with some of this stuff or be labeled a man-pig (self centered person).
My W's money was hers and the H was supposed to support the W like before so my W became a shopping addict. In her mind as long as she could make the payments on her credit card, she wasn't a shopping addict. We both had separate retirement investments and she spends all of her retirement income on what I see as an addiction.

I am the one that tried to smooth things over and that got further behind the 8 ball in the long term. I implemented some of the ideas in the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" now my W thinks I don't consider her feelings or needs. I tried the "what can I do so she will be happier" but all that did was for her to expect more and more. Sorry, I am mostly all given out. I still maintain a decent level of generosity and caring for others but the "do until the other person is satisfied" somehow got lost and now i do things for me and my sanity.

I still look for clues in relationship to haw i interact with other people and watch how other people react in general. Today at senior yoga a fairly new lady my age smiled at me and acted extra friendly. I did the same to her. I also watched her interacting with others and determined that is how she interacts with most people, so the smile to me wasn't a special thing that signaled she wanted more of my attention or time, that is just how she operates. So what is that little extra and what is normal behaviors in others seems to be a finely refined sorting process.

I am puzzled when i read a man's post where he says so and so woman had the hots for me and that he has women falling all over him. I am thinking, "no buddy, that is how she operates with most people."
OK, I know some guys are bold, ask for what they want and in some cases get what they want. The other side of that coin I suspect is some of those guys offend a bunch of women, which I usually strongly avoid. One thing i don't want to do is impose on or have a one sided relationship with anyone male or female.

* Blue power
she DOES NOT LIKE YOU, She is not attracted to you, and she does not really love you in a romantic way. Yeah, she is comfortable with you, she like to cook with you, maybe she loves you like a brother, BUT SHE DOES NOT LOVE YOU.*

I knew that a long time ago BP. That is why I decided to not go down with the ship and swim to shore on my own. 

Small correction to your reply above. She doesn't cook with me. I take care of 98% of the meals for myself and her. Once in a while I leave the house early or don't come home at meal time and she is on her own. some times when I make a meal, she goes for a TV dinner instead of what I prepared. At first I thought "what a pissy princess" but now it is better than listening to her complain or suggest how I should have fixed something. If she eats in the living room while i eat in the dining room, I decided I don't have listen to what I should have done regarding a short list of topics.

Blue Power, in my youth (20's) having sex wasn't assumed or automatic among my friends. It all had to be worked for and had to be respectable OK with to thepartner and the partner's parents.

The advice about not dating a person that doesn't want to be physical, I buy that idea. The down side is as some women age, more seem to be headed for the no sex or want to only hug level. At least that is what I hear as I listen from afar. Some is because of low desire, some from medical or physical problems, some because some areas of the body seem to collect fat, some because the body really sags and skin gets wrinkly and people don't want anyone to see the fat, sags and all of those other less enhancing body features many retired people have.

One lady said she could have sex with her H "if" he was still alive but no way with a new guy. I suppose if she got to know a decent guy the romance activities would get her motor running, but I suspect the bedroon would have to be really dark and she would have to always have a sheet covering her. But, what do I know.

At my age funerals are more common than weddings and people are concerned with will my money and health hold out. Some older folks are more concerned being independent than being interdependent.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

OldShirt, I like the idea of "the price of admission" and your list of things some people want. That list is what I am mentally trying to find a mental match with others, hence the idea on friends in the short term.

Like I said before, marriage used to mean obligation, doing what a person promised, avoiding expensive legal expenses, and some other concrete practical issues. Divorce for not being happy? Only a fool would do that back in the 1960 and before. Yes it happened but it wasn't very common. I had catholic friends that said they could kill (nor actually just an expression) their spouse but divorce was out of the question.

I have noticed a few housed that are for sale that I could buy on my own if the price was lower but I haven't done anything except look on the internet to see the asking price. Before I bring up the D idea, I want to have an idea what is next and the finances figured out. I spent a wad of money buying and fixing up a place for my daughter and grand-kids to live when she got divorced. Having living quarters for her ahead of her divorce made it go a lot smoother. If I found something similar and in that price range that would make things easier for me to say I am done. It was good for a long time but not good for a long time.


The idea of "the price of admission" has to work for both people, that is what I am sort of working on now mentally.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* Hopeful Cynic
My ex used to initiate by leaving the room without a word and disappearing; maybe to go get a drink, use the bathroom, was bored with TV, didn't feel well, whatever. I had no idea. Never came back, and was asleep in bed by the time I got to wondering what was taking so long. *

Sounds like my W when things cooled off, but she never complained I didn't follow her.

If life had a reset button similar to a video game, I should have followed her about 9PM, done the horizontal hokey-pokey and then watched the 10PM news by myself or while she slept. I found some of the solutions on the Internet that I should have had 35 -45 years ago.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

The following thing works. Whether accidentally or intentionally I got in the habit of following W when she leaves the living room and goes to the bedroom. It's one of her ways to start fooling around. Every few times she reminds me that she knew I'd follow her. I haven't missed yet....
However W is usually not so demure so I have a great batting average. If she wants to and I'm (for some unknown reason) being slow W will sit in my lap and it's on.

PS we both grew up in a sex positive environment. We didn't meet until about 23yrs old.


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