# Wifes extra curricular



## hjones1971

My lady and I have been together for 20yrs now. Here recently I had detected things unusual, not answering the phone when she normally would, not replying to text when she normally would. One night I was talking to her on the phone and she said she was going out with some coworkers after work (5pm) to a place they normally go to and I had been with them before and during the conversation I had heard her navigation in her vehicle give her a direction. I asked her about it and she simply stated she had hit a button on the steering wheel and it sounded out. Later that evening I attempted to call and couldn't reach her and finally at some late hour she returned my call saying she couldn't hear her phone when she was with her coworkers. Later when she got home and went to bed I went to her vehicle and checked the last input address in her navigation and copied it down. (one thing I know about navigation is it doesn't give you feedback unless you give it something to give back to you)...finally one day she was off and I was on my way to work talking to her on the phone and a little later I went to call and text her and no reply again. I made an excuse and left work and headed to the address that was in her navigation and low and behold her car was in the driveway. I had lost contact with her at 10am and when I finally made it to this house it was 6pm and I had been calling her phone about every 15-20 mins with no answer and no reply to text. I knocked on the door and after about 10-15 mins she finally walked out head down and teary eyed..come to find out the guy she had been visiting was an ex from before we had gotten together..someone who I was familiar with by name alone, someone who "SUPPOSEDLY" had hurt her real bad and screwed her head up, her first love and someone who supposedly had broken her heart real bad...OF course this threw me for a loop...Her claim is he had found her and contacted her through facebook and since he did she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him (which I can understand) what I cant understand is why she had to ignore me to do it and why it took her going over to his place to do it...she lied to me on 4 different occasions about where she was going and who she was with and spending SEVERAL hours with this guy. claimed she "couldn't hear" her phone when I was calling because it was on vibrate in her purse and later on I finally got her to admit she was simply ignoring my phone calls...the part I cant get past is she holds on to the final day when I went to get her from his house...she claims that day she really didn't hear her phone and I call her bull**** on it because as I said I rang her phone for approx. 6 hours every 15 mins because I knew where she was and was trying to give her a chance to get out of the situation she was in but she continues to hold onto that lie...she claims to never have gotten physical with him and the entire time they spent "TALKING"...I would almost rather her just flat out say she slept with the guy and be done with it...spending THAT much time talking with an ex to me means youre building a bond and I have said this to her, but she continues to hold onto that lie...She isn't a serial cheater (that I know of) and it is indeed out of the ordinary for her(so I think)...but why hold onto this single lie....she claimed she never heard the phone ring because it was sitting on the table and they where talking..and later I find out the table it was sitting on was a coffee table sitting a foot in front of them, so I told her that for her not to have heard it can only means she was really into what was being said or being occupied by something else....

how likely is a woman to spend 4 days with an ex for several hours at a time JUST TALKING?
Does that even sound believable to anyone else?


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## Chaparral

There is virtually no chance this is true. There is a lot more going on than you have caught.

Have you checked her phone bill for numbers texted and called, what kind of phone does she have, the texts from many smart phones can be retrieved if deleted?

If you want to find out what is going on you will have to go into detective mode. If he isn't married is she wanting to stay with you?

You will most likely have to threaten a polygraph or else divorce situation.

Any kids?


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## timedoesnothealall

Think about it: Does it take 10-15 minutes to answer a door if you're merely talking?


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## Rottdad42

I call BS to the whole thing. No truth whatsoever. If I missed my wife's call, I would tell her. We all look at our phones at least four times a day. She was ignoring you flat out. If you have a family and one of you is a stay at home person, I always call to see how she is doing. Part of it is self preservation, to know what I'm walking into when I get home from work. The other part to your story, no way they kept their hands to themselves. Just don't believe it. The delay from answering the door, fixing themselves you popped them and they know it. This is far from over, good luck.


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## Thound

They had sex on at least 4 occasions. You need to file for divorce ASAP. You can R if you want, but you need to file to show her you are not going to roll over and take it. Good luck.


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## Remains

It is wholly unbelievable and an absolute impossibility in my opinion. This was an affair.

If I were you, I would treat it as such and decide your next course of action. Are you prepared to stay with her following her infidelity? Are you prepared to stay with her ONLY if she comes clean with the whole truth? Or is infidelity a complete deal breaker?


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## zookeeper

You're too hung up on the irrelevant details like her ignoring your calls vs not hearing the phone. Not uncommon when someone discovers such a betrayal. Your trying to protect yourself by focusing on the mundane.

You already know this, but it simply doesn't matter. You know they are having sex. Don't be willfully ignorant, don't allow yourself to be gas lighted because you want to save your marriage. She has been with him physically. Period. 

I would never be able to recover from such a betrayal and wouldn't try to. She would be gone. I know that isn't the path for everyone. If you want to try to save your marriage, you must give her one chance to come completely clean. Everything. She probably won't, so you demand a polygraph. She will either adamantly refuse or agree but do her best to put it off. If you get her in the car to go take it, she will probably break sometime before walking through the door and admit something. It still won't be everything but it will hopefully be enough for you to make a decision about the future of the relationship.

I wouldn't bother with any sleuthing at this point. You already for d her at her ex-boyfriends house and she has spent ours with him. By her own admission. The rest of it is just details that you might later be glad you don't know. If you found a roach in your soup would you start digging around for other contaminants or just go throw up?

Sorry you have to go through this. I wish you the best.


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## PamJ

Sorry you are here, but everyone else is right. Lying and deception makes it so much worse, and you know what happened here. She did not have to go to his house to "talk" people do that by phone or text, which would have been bad enough as she would have been lying about that too.

You know what happened, you just have to decide what you want to do about it. Start now.


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## ironman

First, I am sorry you are here. 



hjones1971 said:


> I was familiar with by name alone,
> someone who "SUPPOSEDLY" had hurt her real bad and screwed her head up, her first love and someone who supposedly had broken her heart real bad...OF course this threw me for a loop...


*Usually, when a woman describes an ex like this what they are really telling you is that they never got over that person and they wish that their relationship had not ended.*



hjones1971 said:


> Her claim is he had found her and contacted her through facebook and since he did she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him (which I can understand)


*A person in a committed relationship has absolutely no business looking up, hooking up or getting things off their chest with old lovers.*



hjones1971 said:


> what I cant understand is why she had to ignore me to do it and why it took her going over to his place to do it...she lied to me on 4 different occasions


*I believe you answered your own question here. She is lying. Cheaters lie. She's was in the process of cheating on you ... definitely. *



hjones1971 said:


> she claims to never have gotten physical with him and the entire time they spent "TALKING"...I would almost rather her just flat out say she slept with the guy and be done with it...spending THAT much time talking with an ex to me means youre building a bond


*These are even more lies. The chances that they've already slept together during this time are sky-high my friend. Don't believe her.*



hjones1971 said:


> how likely is a woman to spend 4 days with an ex for several hours at a time JUST TALKING?


*Near zero percent chance ... the odds of physical affair are even higher when they are ex's, fyi*



hjones1971 said:


> Does that even sound believable to anyone else?


*Uh, no.*


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## wranglerman

Do yourself a favor and drop this like a stone, not her but the situation and then go covert and gather intelligence on what has really been going on.

If it has been through FB then go looking, if it was innocent and she has nothing to hide as she claims then it will all be there to be seen, if it is not then more deception is a foot.

Cell phone bills will show calls and texts to whoever and her phone in your hand should there be nothing to be hidden should show all you need to know.

Key logging her computer and any she has access to will mean email and social networking should be yours to be seen and not with her knowledge either as she will or could have deleted most of her deeds and doings before you get there.

Get on it fast, weight lifter will be here soon with VAR advice and follow his instructions to the letter he will save you I promise!!!

Sorry you are here, hurts like hell but you will survive and we will help as much as we can, stay strong, eat healthy and exercise.


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## user_zero

hjones1971,

you are a guy yourself. would you spend this much time with an ex without getting anything in return?

don't lie to yourself. they did it. gather more information. talk with a therapist , lawyer. make your decision.


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## Acabado

She's obviously lying about it so... you can directly divorce her for it, you can simply asume the worse and move on or find out what was going on for some sort of vindication, to piece the puzzle or to give her a last oportunity to right her wrongs so.... play dumb, "act" hurt but "dealing with it" and meanwhile put in place all the snooping tools in the arsenal, to the point of hiring professionals to find out the extent of her betrayal if necessary. 

At this point It's unlikely you are getting a different answer from her unless you hit her with solid evidence so she get off the fence.

I couln't try any kind of reconciliation if my wayward is stuck in her lies and damage control. There's no chance. If she persists in this I'd divorce her but if you want one last shot you need to face her with this and then wait for her reaction to evaluate a potential R.


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## weightlifter

If you wish to investigate i will post a full set of instructions in about 12 hours at home.

You can do the first three steps today tho.
1 stop talking to her about this. Play dumb husband.
2 go to best buy. Get 2 icdpx312 voice activated recorder. Or sony equivalent at about 50 to 60 dollars. Sony only. Other brands have issues.
3. Go to walmart get self stick heavy duty velcro. Its in either fabrics or near fasteners. Get litium batteries for above vars from step 2.
At work on tablet. Typing is awful.


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## hookares

What's the chances? Not a chance in the world.
Just ask yourself when was the last time she spent four hours alone with YOU talking or doing anything else, and you'll have your answer.
And, let me add that you don't "know" she isn't a serial cheater. You just suspect she isn't.


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## 6301

Her claim is he had found her and contacted her through facebook and since he did she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest 

Yeah. Get something off her chest. Her bra and the OM.

If you fall for this one, you get what you deserve.


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## Thor

hjones, welcome aboard.

First, heed the advise you'll get here. It is solid. These people have BTDT.

Second, you don't know what happened. Fact. I think pretty much everyone would agree the chances are zero there was no sex. Still, you have no proof.

Do you need proof?

What level of betrayal is sufficient for you to leave the relationship? Must it be sex? Or is a pattern of lies and deceptions sufficient?

As touched on by someone else, her FB page will have a full archive of communications. I'm not sure about instant messages, but any emails and postings will be archived.

You need to play hardball with your wife. The proof of burden is on her. Don't make the mistake of trying to be kind to her. Don't worry about going too far and "causing" her to leave you.

Thus, you need to tell her that it is upon her to prove what happened and what did not happen. First, she opens up all of her email and social media accounts to you. Sit her down and with you there have her log in to each account and let you go through them. Do not give her warning or let her walk away, she'll delete anything suspicious. Look at all the folders in her emails, including the Sent folder and the Trash folder. People frequently forget to empty those. Next, go to her FaceBook and look at all the email messages and postings. Look at his profile. Then, go into her Settings and get an archive report. I forget exactly what it is called. It will send to her email account everything that has happened on her FaceBook. Then go to her email and look at it.

If she has sent/received emails through Facebook, she may have deleted them. BUT, they will show up in the archive.

I would talk to an attorney right away. Don't hide this from your wife. Then I would tell her she must take a polygraph as a condition of you attempting reconciliation. She may choose not to do the polygraph, but imho it should be a deal breaker if she refuses it. Don't flinch on the polygraph. No matter what she says, make her do it. There are a lot of parking lot confessions when arriving at the polygraph. Good. Then take her inside and do the polygraph to verify you have the full truth.


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## TDSC60

Of course she is having sex with him. Why would it take 15 min come out of the house after you knocked on the door? She had to get dressed that's why.

Don't fall for this crap.

You call her "my lady" are you married?


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## TRy

hjones1971 said:


> I knocked on the door and after about 10-15 mins she finally walked out head down and teary eyed..come to find out the guy she had been visiting was an ex from before we had gotten together.


 She was secretively in an ex lover's home alone with him for over 6 hours and took 10-15 mins to answer the door. She has done this before at least 4 other times that you know of. What more exactly do you need for you to know that she had sex with him? You know why it took so long to answer the door right? Unless you were willing to break the law and bust down the other man's door to catch them with their clothing off, which would not be advisably (jail time hurts you in divorce), there rarely is better proof of cheating than what you got. 



hjones1971 said:


> since he did she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him (which I can understand)


 Why exactly can you understand this, when this is nothing more than an obvious lie? If she just wanted to talk, she could have met him at a coffee shop. If she just wanted to get things off her chest, she did not need that many hours to do it. Besides as someone that is suppose to be out of her life, their past issues should not have been that important to her.



hjones1971 said:


> how likely is a woman to spend 4 days with an ex for several hours at a time JUST TALKING?


 The only thing that she can get off her chest at his home and not in a coffee shop is her top.



hjones1971 said:


> Does that even sound believable to anyone else?


 It does not sound even a tiny bit believable and you know it. As you stood outside his door waiting 10-15 minutes for them to get dressed, you knew that she was going to tell you this lie, because cheaters lie, and she was cheating.


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## barbados

She is clearly lying to you, and clearly has had sex with the old BF. So now you decide if this is a person you want to R with or leave. Your post says "my lady". Are you married ? Kids ?

How was your sex life prior to this ? Was she acting differently towards you before this ?


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## zookeeper

Quote:
Originally Posted by hjones1971 
since he did she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him (which I can understand)

I can't understand it. There is no way she should have enough of an emotional connection with an ex that would require her to ever see or talk to him again. You are her husband and have been with her for over 20 years! What possible reason could there be that she felt a needed closure on something so badly that she would meet with him? Lets even assume that she is being truthful about this (she ain't' BTW). How do you feel about her holding onto some remnant of her relationship with this guy for 20 years?


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## workindad

You are being lied to and played. No doubt about it. I get the feeling that you want to believe her bogus explanation. Doing so, will only enable her behavior.

It is time for strong actions

Cheaters lie most of the time. It goes with the behavior. Your "lady" is no different.

It is time for strong actions.

Get tested for STDs.
Do a hard 180, for yourself.
Demand a polygraph- follow thru- be prepared for a parking lot confession.
Use the VARs WL mentioned

Are you two married? If yes, see a divorce attorney ASAP to check your options.


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## skb

You know they had intercourse. Divorce is your answer.


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## VFW

No sex? Cmon man, you know what happened here. You don't need anymore information to know what happened. She will still be adamant that nothing happened, because she has painted herself in a corner. Get an attorney and have him draft up the paper work, schedule a polygraph test. If she passes, she agrees to go to counseling to work on marriage. If she fails, she signs the settlement that is favorable to you. You don't have to file, but the choice will be yours to make either way.


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## Shaggy

You know they had sex. If they were just talking she'd have met once for coffee in a coffee shop


No, she was at his place all those times for hours having sex with him.

Want proof - demand she takes a polygraph. They are available all over the place for a couple hundred. Google your city + polygraph.


I'd suggest you also put a VAR voice activated recorder following the instructions from weightlifter in her car.

Right now she has chosen this other guy over loyalty to you. That was her choosing to lie to you about meeting him.

And of course they had sex, what would anyone be talking about for hours and hours and hours over all those days and nights if meet ups?

They would have caught up very quickly with each other lives.

Next they started having sex for those hours.

I'm betting now that she's caught she will find a way to take if back underground, Look for a burner cell phone or her using apps on her current phone to permit secret private communication,

Also since she's skipping work to meet up with him, look for them to continue to meet up during the day.

You better demand all her passwords and I'd be looking for hotel charges on her cards.


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## aug

And given your post here:


hjones1971 said:


> I've been reading through all these post and in the same situation where my woman wont initiate as well...the reason I fell here reading this is looking for a solution to help us out...I've been on several different sites and probably read enough comments to drive anyone crazy....Sadly enough after reading an insane amount of comments it almost leads me to believe that I would be better off as a single guy just going and trying to get laid every once in awhile...or have a mistress on the side....I don't encourage that type of behavior and not trying to lead towards it....but you have guys literally begging their women to initiate sex and the most common answer is....Hey if you cook , clean, give her a massage, take her out to dinner, give her flowers, give her subtle kisses, cuddle without having sex,etc... then YOU MIGHT get sex as a treat...a sort of reward...and then if you stray she will wonder why? hmmmmmm
> Why can't it be each person initiate at least somewhat equally?
> its not that I even want my woman to initiate all the time...its just every once in awhile take charge....
> sadly enough my conclusion is to find another woman



you know your marriage is dead.

She's been banging her ex.


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## Refuse to be played

Dude the only thing your W was getting off her chest was her bra. Seriously that lie is just extra insult to injury.


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## Ovid

hjones1971 said:


> how likely is a woman to spend 4 days with an ex for several hours at a time JUST TALKING?
> Does that even sound believable to anyone else?


It's less believable than Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny getting together and making a baby.


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## Ovid

Do you have kids? If the answer is no, then move out and file for D. At this point even she knows there is only one way to think about what she has done, and only one way to respond to it.


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## MattMatt

workindad said:


> You are being lied to and played. No doubt about it. I get the feeling that you want to believe her bogus explanation. Doing so, will only enable her behavior.
> 
> It is time for strong actions
> 
> Cheaters lie most of the time. It goes with the behavior. Your "lady" is no different.
> 
> It is time for strong actions.
> 
> *Get tested for STDs.*
> Do a hard 180, for yourself.
> Demand a polygraph- follow thru- be prepared for a parking lot confession.
> Use the VARs WL mentioned
> 
> Are you two married? If yes, see a divorce attorney ASAP to check your options.


:iagree:

Especially the STD tests. Protect your health, as she obviously doesn't give flying fox for your health.


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## ThePheonix

Jonesy, I think you're very much aware of what went down at this guy's house. She wouldn't have went to his house for hours otherwise. Its highly unlikely it was just to talk. I recently met up with a female (former) coworker to catch up and that was done at Starbucks, not either of our houses. (with prior knowledge of our spouses BTW) 
My suggestion is to follow Weightlifter's et al advice, go into birddog mode and catch her red handed. That way whatever you decide to do won't leave any room for doubt and speculation as to what these two have been up to.


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## Will_Kane

hjones1971 said:


> how likely is a woman to spend 4 days with an ex for several hours at a time JUST TALKING?
> Does that even sound believable to anyone else?


????

Is this a serious question?

No, she was not just talking with him.

It didn't take him that many days/hours to get into her pants the first time they dated.

Check the phone logs, you will see that all the "talking" and "foreplay" was done via texts/calls before they met up, when they did meet, they got right down to business.

She told you all they did was talk for four days? I would divorce her just on general principle for thinking I was stupid enough to believe that.

She doesn't even care enough about you to make up a decent lie.


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## TRy

hjones1971 said:


> I knocked on the door and after about 10-15 mins she finally walked out head down and teary eyed..come to find out the guy she had been visiting was an ex from before we had gotten together.


 Although I have commented on the above quote before, this quote deserves additional focus. As you stood outside that door knowing that your wife was in there alone with another man (OM), she and the other man hide from you as a couple as they got dressed both wishing that you would give up and leave. Every minute that she made you wait, the other man was the insider with your wife and you were the literally made to be the outsider. With every minute that pasted before she would come to the door, you knew with ever increasing certainty what they had been doing before you knocked. She knew that you had caught her, and had she just opened the door like she normally would, she could have maybe made a case that she had her cloth on at the time that you knocked on the door, but she could not do that because that was unfortunately not the case. Every painful minute of those 10-15 minutes, as you stood there knowing that she knew that you are there, must have felt like an eternity. I really feel for you for having to have experienced that.

A famous con man when asked how he was able to get so many people to foolishly beleive the unbelievable, answered that you can get people to beleive anything as long as it is something that they want to beleive is true. Your wife knows that despite all evidence to the contrariety, you want to beleive that she did not cheat on you. Like a con man she is lying to you by telling you what you want to believe is true. Sorry to say, by you giving her lie serious consideration, instead of busting her for cheating on the spot, she has already played you for the fool. Con man laugh at their victims. Right now your wife and her affair partner are laughing at the fact that you are still confused about what was going on between them. 

Bottom line, you busted her cheating with the other man. You should ignore her when she says otherwise, and if she persists in lying, tell her that her that you are not a fool and that you do not need her to tell the truth for you to proceed with ending this marraige if she does not start showing remorse and honestly dealing with this matter. Without telling her first, start sharing what she did first with your family, then hers, then your friends, and finally with her friends. Do this quickly and speak about it as a fact that you caught her with the other man and that it took 10-15 minutes for them to put their cloth back on so that she could leave with you. By telling them first, by the time that she tries to put her lying spin on things, like everyone on this board most will tell her that they do not believe her, which may force her to start telling the truth to you. Good luck. I am sorry that you are here.


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## hjones1971

NO I don't believe the story..I didn't when it was told to me, I made it known when she told it to me and I certainly don't now. I am TRYING to give some type of validity to it and seeing if there was ANYONE willing to play devils advocate and make that story make some type of sense. As I had thought, pretty much everyone thinks and believes the same as I do. It is only a matter of what I choose to do about it which is what I am trying to figure out now. Her claim is he made her feel wanted and I do not do that. Says it wasn't a physical thing or a sex thing it was just the feeling wanted thing..Do I believe that? NOPE. But that's her claim.
I wanted other opinions and wanted to make sure I wasn't over reacting and maybe there was some slight little possibility somewhere that there might have been some truth in the story, I know often times when youre in the middle of a mess its much harder to see clearly and maybe people from the outside would see a different picture or see more clearly...
I pretty much did everything but actually pull the dudes D*&k out of her and from her reaction in order to bust her that's pretty much what I had needed to do to get her to admit to the bull...
Whats got me halfway out the door is not the possibility of her screwing him or not, but the fact that shes giving me this jacked up story and expecting me to believe it...
Personally I can deal with her having slept with the dude as long as its over and doesn't happen again and I can work through it, but if what she says is actually true and it all WAS just talking...I actually consider that much worse. sleeping with him is physical and can be done and over with and I can get pissed off, rant and rave and it can be done with. THAT much talking means theres an emotional bond being built and feelings involved and building a relationship and THATS something I cannot deal with, THATS something that means that's where her heart is. To some that may sound a little crazy, but somehow somewhere in my mind it makes sense to me. I can go sleep with a woman and not think much about it (one night stand) but spending quality time communicating with her means building something.


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## Chaparral

No matter what you decide to do,.be sure and read the MMSLP book linked to below. The title implies it is a sex manual, its actually a book about men and womens attraction for each other and how it affects relationships.


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## harrybrown

She does not respect you and is in a fog. You need to respect yourself. File for divorce now and give her consequences for her actions. Do something for yourself, get exercise. Tell her to get out, you will not stand for her lies, and cheating. How would she react to your cheating?


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## Chaparral

What is your wife saying she wants? Does she want to stay married? Is the old bf married?


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## Chaparral

Do you have kids?


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## theroad

hjones1971 said:


> NO I don't believe the story..I didn't when it was told to me, I made it known when she told it to me and I certainly don't now. I am TRYING to give some type of validity to it and seeing if there was ANYONE willing to play devils advocate and make that story make some type of sense. As I had thought, pretty much everyone thinks and believes the same as I do. It is only a matter of what I choose to do about it which is what I am trying to figure out now. Her claim is he made her feel wanted and I do not do that. Says it wasn't a physical thing or a sex thing it was just the feeling wanted thing..Do I believe that? NOPE. But that's her claim.
> I wanted other opinions and wanted to make sure I wasn't over reacting and maybe there was some slight little possibility somewhere that there might have been some truth in the story, I know often times when youre in the middle of a mess its much harder to see clearly and maybe people from the outside would see a different picture or see more clearly...
> I pretty much did everything but actually pull the dudes D*&k out of her and from her reaction in order to bust her that's pretty much what I had needed to do to get her to admit to the bull...
> Whats got me halfway out the door is not the possibility of her screwing him or not, but the fact that shes giving me this jacked up story and expecting me to believe it...
> Personally I can deal with her having slept with the dude as long as its over and doesn't happen again and I can work through it, but if what she says is actually true and it all WAS just talking...I actually consider that much worse. sleeping with him is physical and can be done and over with and I can get pissed off, rant and rave and it can be done with. THAT much talking means theres an emotional bond being built and feelings involved and building a relationship and THATS something I cannot deal with, THATS something that means that's where her heart is. To some that may sound a little crazy, but somehow somewhere in my mind it makes sense to me. I can go sleep with a woman and not think much about it (one night stand) but spending quality time communicating with her means building something.



Do you want to divorce or recovery your marriage?

Venting is going no where.


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## alte Dame

She is enthralled by the ex & driven to be with him, so she focuses on that and only works out what her cover will be when she is completely and thoroughly busted. The fact that she was with him for hours while her phone buzzed with your calls indicates both the level at which she was driven and the complete lack of thought she gave to her cover story.

Her lies are among the most transparent and frankly stupid I have ever read here. I can easily understand why you would be insulted that she expects you to even entertain their veracity, given how almost brain-dead they are.

I take it she is not normally this dumb? If not, then this is a marker of how single-minded she has been regarding the OM, i.e., that is the only thing she had her mind on.


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## hjones1971

no kids, I have two sons by my ex wife..she is saying she wants to stay together and does not want him and says she wants me..I expected that as an answer simply because the shock and surprise at getting caught will automatically put you on the defensive and most will say anything to get out of the BS they're in and say anything to try and make everything alright. I am well aware that in situations like this for whatever reason nobody wants to be in the "wrong" Ive asked several times what it is she is wanting to do and what she wants and the answer is always to stay together.
do I want to recover? Yes I do. If I didn't want to recover the marriage then all I would have done when I knew she was going over there was take the extra key to her vehicle , go pick up the vehicle and take it home and let her leave out of his house stranded calling the cops wondering WTF happened and have her calling me freaking out because her car got stolen but not knowing how on earth to explain to me where she was and how it got stolen..oh BTW the dude doesn't even own a vehicle so I was pissed off that not only was this going on, she was making an effort to make it happen by going and seeing him and picking him up etc...I had reason to leave long ago, I am trying to find reasons to stay I guess


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## TDSC60

One of the first steps to R is for her to stop the BS and admit the truth about what she has done-.


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## the guy

Why do you want to stay with a women that isn't happy with you and needs aren't being met?

I'm guessing she wants you for convienence...and a vehicle!

Next time she goes over to OM house go take the car. 

It will happen again, she has an addiction for OM so plan on finding a ride over to OM's house soon.


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## Acabado

hjones1971 said:


> I am trying to find reasons to stay I guess


She's giving you no one.


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## TRy

hjones1971 said:


> Her claim is he made her feel wanted and I do not do that.


 She is now changing her story as the original reason that she gave for seeing the other man was that "she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him". Her new truth directly contradicts the old truth and proves the old truth to have been a lie. It also confirms that she was with him because she has feeling for him and wanted to be with him. This is called trickle truth. It is amazing that as each so called truth by a cheater proves their last so called truth to be a lie, they expect you to beleive their new truth as if they had not bee lying to you all along.

That fact that she has told you that she is seeing the other man because she has feelings for him where he is meeting her needs in a way that you do not, is emotional cheating and is called an emotional affair. Even ignoring the sex, this is real cheating.


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## the guy

Good call TRy


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## Jasel

Don't be so quick to let her off the hook or you're just setting yourself up for a false reconciliation and a wife who loses even more respect for you. She's committed the ultimate betrayal. If you want to R that's all well and good but don't let HER know she's out of the woods this early.


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## Acabado

TRy said:


> She is now changing her story as the original reason that she gave for seeing the other man was that "she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him". Her new truth directly contradicts the old truth and proves the old truth to have been a lie. It also confirms that she was with him because she has feeling for him and wanted to be with him. *This is called trickle truth*. It is amazing that as each so called truth by a cheater proves their last so called truth to be a lie, they expect you to beleive their new truth as if they had not bee lying to you all along.


It's actually worse. She's getting worse.
She was flat out lying out of damage control (let's stop this sugarcoated term TT), what she's starting now is the blameshifting game.

1rt - Nothing happened, just needed to get closure from the past.
2nd - (realizing you are not buying it) ... whatever happened you are to blame.


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## workindad

You are in the early stages of trickle trothing. You seem to want to reconcile and that is certainly your decision.

Please get the VAR as suggested by WL and use it asap. 

Keylog her PC also.

You will continue to be lied to, expect it.

If you want to gather more information for a while, that is certainly up to you.

I would stop asking her what she wants. She needs to understand that you are a man and not a door mat.

Be careful not to let your desire to keep her lead you to rug sweeping. That will come back later to bite you in the a$$. 

Deal with the issues head on if you want to reconcile and that will include her going NC with her lover. You cannot have a marriage with you, her, and another man in it. It just will not work.

Also, get tested for STDs, no telling what you may have been exposed to.


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## Shaggy

Tonight post the OM up on cheaterville.com where he belongs.

Send your wife the link and ask her for his email so you can let him know. Watch her reaction.

Do you know his cellphone number? Search for it in your wife's phone. Block it at the cell provider.


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## PamJ

<<Her claim is he made her feel wanted and I do not do that. >>

Deflection, a natural reaction from WSs; YOU made me do it, YOU didn't show me enough love, listen to me...etc. etc. etc. Putting the blame back on you.
But, before they were 'forced' into this, they didn't tell anyone how they were feeling. never had those heart to heart conversations with their BSs like the did with the OM/OW, of course.

No one likes to take the blame, so they deflect.

If you don't let them lay that on you they either get angry or start crying, more maneuvers to get you to not throw them out. Make sure whatever you do it's on YOUR terms not hers.


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## 6301

If I didn't want to recover the marriage then all I would have done when I knew she was going over there was take the extra key to her vehicle , go pick up the vehicle and take it home and let her leave out of his house stranded calling the cops wondering WTF happened and have her calling me freaking out because her car got stolen but not knowing how on earth to explain to me where she was and how it got stolen[/QUOTE]

That's what you should have done. Hind site being 20/20 I keep thinking how she would have talked her way out of that mess.

The only thing you have to do now is ask yourself two questions. The first is do you want to live your life with a woman who you can't trust and lies to you? The second question is. Do you feel you deserve better than your getting.


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## thatbpguy

6301 said:


> If I didn't want to recover the marriage then all I would have done when I knew she was going over there was take the extra key to her vehicle , go pick up the vehicle and take it home and let her leave out of his house stranded calling the cops wondering WTF happened and have her calling me freaking out because her car got stolen but not knowing how on earth to explain to me where she was and how it got stolen


 That's what you should have done. Hind site being 20/20 I keep thinking how she would have talked her way out of that mess.

The only thing you have to do now is ask yourself two questions. The first is do you want to live your life with a woman who you can't trust and lies to you? The second question is. Do you feel you deserve better than your getting.[/QUOTE]

This is it.

She lied and lied and lied and is screwing this guy and refuses to own up to it until you have better information. 

Why stay? 

This the lies will ever stop?

No.

Why?

Because she's getting away with it.


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## happyman64

hjones

A few things to make note of.

Do not leave your home. You mentioned having a good reason to stay. But in all actuality you have to have a good reason not to throw your wife out of the house.

I think it is great that you love your wife. It is even more important that she is lying to you and you know it.

Time is on your side.

See if she has truly broken contact or if she is still full of crap.

You have all the time in the world to see what she will do next.

Amazing how dumb a spouse can be to renew a relationship with someone that has broken their heart in the past.

*Do not let her take you for granted.*

Hm64


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## Shaggy

Btw. He made her feel wanted? How did he make her feel wanted if they only talked? I mean if he wanted her, and she returned the feeling , it's clear what went down.

My advice it's nuclear time, and if she's still by your side when the fallout settles then she is worth trying with. If she's gone she wasn't worthy.


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## weightlifter

Here you go. Step by step. I cant go out and get these for you.

New and slightly improved.

VARs and evidence

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.

Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex

A completely different direction could be the lie detector. Here is how it works. You say fine, all you did was talk. 

We are going to take a polygraph. You have until we enter the door of the polygraph place to change your answer. There are 3 possible outcomes.

If you pass and simply talked. I will shut up about this beyond you having no more inappropriate contact with other men. Understand what you had is an emotional affair but I love you and I will work this out.

If you pass after admitting cheating I will still consider the idea of keeping our marriage as I love you. Understand you must provide all details upon demand about the affair and never have contact again.

If you still insist that nothing happened and you are found to be a liar, I will divorce you as not only a cheat, but a liar to boot.

A lot of women change their stories literally before entering the polygraph building. We call them parking lot confessions.


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## Rugs

OP, I am a female. We love when old boyfriends contact us. It really gives us a huge ego boost.

There is no way I, as a female, would meet up with an old flame, alone, at his house, unless I was expecting something sexual to happen.

Old boyfriends are always emotional affairs even if its a brief PA. Are emotions are still there from the first time we dated. We know everything we need to know that matters. Good and bad.

It would take much less time for an old boyfriend to get me into bed than a guy I just met.

Everyone hates old flames because we all know the power they hold. Especially if it's a first love.

Cheaters ALWAYS lie. You may never get the whole truth. 

You need to decide what you need and why you need it. Don't do anything rash. You have time and power on your side too. Use it wisely.

Sorry you have to be here.


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## Dyokemm

OP,

I think you should only stay if she knocks off this lying crap and starts showing you some respect as her H of 20 years by TELLING YOU THE D**N TRUTH.

Lying is just continuing the disrespect and betrayal.


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## ThePheonix

hjones1971 said:


> Personally I can deal with her having slept with the dude as long as its over and doesn't happen again and I can work through it, but if what she says is actually true and it all WAS just talking...I actually consider that much worse.


I hate to say it my man but I think you're deaingl with both emotional and physical connection between these two. I've said before and I'll say it again that women with a high romantic interest in their mate don't cheat. She'll told you that she was going after him for the romantic feeling she didn't have for you. You need to pay a lot of attention to what Rugs is trying to tell you.


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## user_zero

OP, 
from what I'm reading in the posts , your wife was/is the pursuer not the OM. she spends a lot of time in his house ignoring your MANY calls. then she says she didn't like to answer! and now she wants you. this 180 change of direction does not happen suddenly unless there is going to be another 180 sudden change of direction. Don't be surprised if in a few weeks you realize she was in contact with him all along. I'm saying this because I have seen a lot of similar situations like your case. and I don't want you to be more heart-broken than you already are. Don't expect much from her at this point.


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## user_zero

OP, 
obviously there is something in your behavior toward her that makes her believe she can do these stuff and get away with it. Make sure she understand she is wrong.


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## Will_Kane

hjones1971 said:


> Her claim is he made her feel wanted and I do not do that. Says it wasn't a physical thing or a sex thing it was just the feeling wanted thing..Do I believe that? NOPE. But that's her claim.


First off, she had sex with the guy.

Second, however, her reason for it is one given by many cheating wives, that they wanted to feel desired. Without assigning any blame to you, without saying whether that reason is IN FACT valid, I think that it is something that actually may be part of the reason TO HER.

Getting romantic/sexual attention from a man is a big thing for many women; for some, it is reason enough for an affair. They are willing to trade sex for attention. They also want the sex, too. It is exciting, there is a certain thrill to lying and cheating and sneaking about and not getting caught, it is something new (even if it is with somebody from their past), it feels good to have another guy interested, and an emotional attachment is formed. They are not thinking about getting caught, only about how much fun they are having. There are a lot of different reasons, what I just gave you is just one, but it is a fairly common one, judging by what is posted on this forum.

A lot of men underestimate how much a woman wants romantic/sexual attention and time spent with her (like when you were courting her, before you were committed to each other). Men sometimes think that working hard, providing, pitching in with chores, doing their share around the house, etc., shows how much they love their wives, and it does, but a lot of women don't feel it's enough. For some with bad boundaries, they cheat rather than talk to their husband about it. Sometimes, even if their husband was giving them that kind of attention, they cheat anyway because they like the attention from another man, the attention from their husband doesn't mean as much to them.

I don't know why your wife cheated, but the "feel wanted" thing is something a lot of them say.


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## Will_Kane

hjones1971 said:


> Says it wasn't a physical thing or a sex thing it was just the feeling wanted thing..Do I believe that? NOPE. But that's her claim.
> 
> Personally I can deal with her having slept with the dude as long as its over and doesn't happen again and I can work through it, but if what she says is actually true and* it all WAS just talking...I actually consider that much worse*. sleeping with him is physical and can be done and over with and I can get pissed off, rant and rave and it can be done with. *THAT much talking means theres an emotional bond being built and feelings involved and building a relationship and THATS something I cannot deal with, THATS something that means that's where her heart is.*


She DID have sex with him, but she also built an emotional bond with him. The emotional bond usually precedes the sex.

It may be true that she truly is sorry and wants to get over it, and now she is lying because she thinks telling the truth will end her marriage. Obviously, with the cheating, and all of the lying it involved, and with the getting caught, and all of the lies she has told about not having sex, you must conclude that she is willing to lie to you to get what she wants. 

So, even if she is telling the truth, how could you believe her? That's the problem with telling so many lies, especially ones that are as nonsensical as the ones she is telling.

If you keep pushing her about the story being completely unbelievable, she probably will start to trickle out the truth. Most cheaters will insist initially that there was nothing physical at all, then they will say something like, "well, he tried to kiss me," then something like, "ok, I let him kiss me, but I stopped it there," then "I kissed him back," then eventually they will admit to the sex. I don't know why a lot of them seem to trickle it out like that, but if you read the other threads on this forum, you will see that that's how it happens in a lot of the cases.

Getting a couple of voice-activated recorders, one for the house and one for the car, may help you to discover the truth. To me, it seems the fastest way that the betrayed spouses get the actual truth, as well as insight into how their spouses actually feel, as opposed to the stories they are being told.


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## Will_Kane

Also, sometimes asking for a polygraph, setting up an appointment, driving to the polygraph appointment, you get what people on this forum call a "parking lot confession."


----------



## Will_Kane

hjones1971 said:


> *Her claim is *he had found her and contacted her through facebook and since he did *she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him*





hjones1971 said:


> *Her claim is he made her feel wanted and I do no*t do that. Says it wasn't a physical thing or a sex thing it was just the feeling wanted thing.





TRy said:


> She is now changing her story as the original reason that she gave for seeing the other man was that "she wanted to talk with him and get some things off her chest and clear her head or conscience over him". Her new truth directly contradicts the old truth and proves the old truth to have been a lie. It also confirms that she was with him because she has feeling for him and wanted to be with him. This is called trickle truth. It is amazing that as each so called truth by a cheater proves their last so called truth to be a lie, *they expect you to believe their new truth as if they had not bee lying to you all along.*
> 
> That fact that she has told you that she is seeing the other man because she has feelings for him where he is meeting her needs in a way that you do not, is emotional cheating and is called an emotional affair. Even ignoring the sex, this is real cheating.





alte Dame said:


> *She is enthralled by the ex & driven to be with him*, so she focuses on that and only works out what her cover will be when she is completely and thoroughly busted. The fact that she was with him for hours while her phone buzzed with your calls indicates both the level at which she was driven and the complete lack of thought she gave to her cover story.
> 
> *Her lies are among the most transparent and frankly stupid I have ever read here.* I can easily understand why you would be insulted that she expects you to even entertain their veracity, given how almost brain-dead they are.
> 
> *I take it she is not normally this dumb? If not, then this is a marker of how single-minded she has been regarding the OM*, i.e., that is the only thing she had her mind on.


This is about where you stand. 

I suspect this affair will not just end; she is too invested in this other guy, really didn't seem to be thinking about anything else but him. But what is she supposed to do, this guy doesn't even have a car? It doesn't seem like it is financially feasible for her to leave you for him. For now, all she can do is appease you as best she can, maybe cool it with the other guy for a while until things settle down, or try being more secretive. She won't be able to resist contacting him for very long, no way she lasts a week without trying, she is too emotionally invested and she will be worried about how he is doing. I suggest getting the voice-activated recorders in place.

Soon she will tell you that she loves you but is not in love with you. If you want to speed this process along, ask her directly, "You say you love me, but are you still IN LOVE with me? Are you 'in love' with Other Man?"

Your first goal is to get the truth, or at least something a little closer to the truth than what you are getting now. Then you can decide if you want to save the marriage.

Assume for the time being that everything she says about the affair is a lie, UNLESS it is supported by verifiable information or UNLESS it makes sense. When you get the truth, it will make sense to you.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

hjones1971 said:


> no kids, I have two sons by my ex wife..she is saying she wants to stay together and does not want him and says she wants me..I expected that as an answer simply because the shock and surprise at getting caught will automatically put you on the defensive and most will say anything to get out of the BS they're in and say anything to try and make everything alright. I am well aware that in situations like this for whatever reason nobody wants to be in the "wrong" Ive asked several times what it is she is wanting to do and what she wants and the answer is always to stay together.
> do I want to recover? Yes I do. If I didn't want to recover the marriage then all I would have done when I knew she was going over there was take the extra key to her vehicle , go pick up the vehicle and take it home and let her leave out of his house stranded calling the cops wondering WTF happened and have her calling me freaking out because her car got stolen but not knowing how on earth to explain to me where she was and how it got stolen..oh BTW the dude doesn't even own a vehicle so I was pissed off that not only was this going on, she was making an effort to make it happen by going and seeing him and picking him up etc...I had reason to leave long ago, *I am trying to find reasons to stay I guess*



Inform this to her and the reasons should be 
1.She ending her Affair and sending an NC letter stating how she is disgusted by her behavior during her A.
2. True remorse and IC&MC
3. Complete truth, Tonight sit with her, ask her for complete truth, tell her first hand if she spit her old story you will file for D tomorrow.


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## 86857

You need to get the TRUTH and you need to get it NOW.
From WS? - it's likely to be lies, half-truths or mistruths..
I was fed lies for 12 months after D-day & finally believed them. 
Then 2.5 years later, I found out what really happened.
Almost 4 years of my life wasted. 
Don't get caught out like I did. 
You can't make a decision until you have the truth. 
The longer it takes to get it the longer this will drag out. 

All the best.


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## ironman

hjones1971 said:


> THAT much talking means theres an emotional bond being built and feelings involved and building a relationship and THATS something I cannot deal with, THATS something that means that's where her heart is. To some that may sound a little crazy, but somehow somewhere in my mind it makes sense to me.


It doesn't sound crazy at all. But I think you already have your answer my friend. A woman pining over an ex-boyfriend and then going this far out of her way to see and sleep with him is beyond "bonding". They are already bonded. It is obvious where her heart is ... it's up to you to force her hand. 

Time for you to lay down real consequences and measure how she reacts. My fear is that even if she chooses you, her heart will always be elsewhere ... and that sounds like a deal breaker for you.

PS: My first thought when you wrote about how her ex "messed up her head" and all that was that she'll never get over that guy.


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## russell28

ironman said:


> It doesn't sound crazy at all. But I think you already have your answer my friend. A woman pining over an ex-boyfriend and then going this far out of her way to see and sleep with him is beyond "bonding". They are already bonded. It is obvious where her heart is ... it's up to you to force her hand.
> 
> Time for you to lay down real consequences and measure how she reacts. My fear is that even if she chooses you, her heart will always be elsewhere ... and that sounds like a deal breaker for you.
> 
> PS: My first thought when you wrote about how her ex "messed up her head" and all that was that she'll never get over that guy.


So if he wants her.. really wants her, it's time for him to 'mess up her head', so that she'll never get over him.. the way to do that would be to take the advice always given here.. Divorce, or at least start the proceedings.. This ex-BF and her have been demonizing the OP, it's time to do the same for him.. let her know that he's a POS that is messing with a married mans wife, and is a lair and cheater. He's a home wrecker, not a great wonderful guy... He's helping her ruin her life and abuse her husband. Remind her that he's been the one taking care of her and that he deserves not only honesty, but fidelity in his marriage.. that he's not a doormat, but a man that's going to fight for his marriage if she's willing to do the hard work, but if she's not willing, then he'll be more than happy to find someone that will treat him with respect and honor and not treat him like a doormat. He needs to make it VERY clear to her that lying is not an option.. he deserves truth, not total bull... 

If she fed me this crap, I'd just give her back a constant stream of "I'm not stupid.. please stop insulting me with your lies, and for once just tell me the truth.. I deserve the truth... If I told you that I was just 'talking', after you caught me at someone's house.. would you believe me? Of course you wouldn't, because we both know that the scenario would seem more absurd than a bigfoot sighting, so please stop..." 

Basically, GTFO unless you can stop the affair, and give 100% to fixing what you've broken... yourself and the marriage.. IC, MC, STD tests now or D...


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## theroad

hjones1971 said:


> no kids, I have two sons by my ex wife..she is saying she wants to stay together and does not want him and says she wants me..I expected that as an answer simply because the shock and surprise at getting caught will automatically put you on the defensive and most will say anything to get out of the BS they're in and say anything to try and make everything alright. I am well aware that in situations like this for whatever reason nobody wants to be in the "wrong" Ive asked several times what it is she is wanting to do and what she wants and the answer is always to stay together.
> do I want to recover? Yes I do. If I didn't want to recover the marriage then all I would have done when I knew she was going over there was take the extra key to her vehicle , go pick up the vehicle and take it home and let her leave out of his house stranded calling the cops wondering WTF happened and have her calling me freaking out because her car got stolen but not knowing how on earth to explain to me where she was and how it got stolen..oh BTW the dude doesn't even own a vehicle so I was pissed off that not only was this going on, she was making an effort to make it happen by going and seeing him and picking him up etc...I had reason to leave long ago, I am trying to find reasons to stay I guess


Then get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Halrley.

Learn what a NC letter is.

Tell the OMW.

Tell WW that she must be transparent so you can verify NC.


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## bandit.45

_Posted via Mobile Device_

No way she went to this clown's house and not have something sexual go down. 

She's playing you. Don't fall for it.


----------



## workindad

You want reasons to stay. Maybe if her std test comes back negative that could be one. 

I'm not sure you need reasons. If you want to try then give it your best informed shot. Be vigilent expect the lies to continue. 

He has no car. Does that mean he has no job. This will be tough to monitor. Invest in keylog hers and vars quickly.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## hjones1971

Rugs said:


> OP, I am a female. We love when old boyfriends contact us. It really gives us a huge ego boost.
> 
> There is no way I, as a female, would meet up with an old flame, alone, at his house, unless I was expecting something sexual to happen.
> 
> Old boyfriends are always emotional affairs even if its a brief PA. Are emotions are still there from the first time we dated. We know everything we need to know that matters. Good and bad.
> 
> It would take much less time for an old boyfriend to get me into bed than a guy I just met.
> 
> Everyone hates old flames because we all know the power they hold. Especially if it's a first love.
> 
> Cheaters ALWAYS lie. You may never get the whole truth.
> 
> You need to decide what you need and why you need it. Don't do anything rash. You have time and power on your side too. Use it wisely.
> 
> Sorry you have to be here.


RUGs..TY, I've trying to fish for other females opinions on this matter. I expect most if not all men will say "dude are you blind and crazy". So I have been talking to different females that I know and trying to fish for different womens opinions and trying to get them from those who would be unbiased and the answer is pretty much the same from all sources.


----------



## Shaggy

Has she stopped communicating with him? Has she given you full access and transparency ?


----------



## hjones1971

Shaggy said:


> Has she stopped communicating with him? Has she given you full access and transparency ?


Yes she has stopped communicating with him that I have seen and yes I have access and transparency...
she pretty much stays off the computer(not very computer literate) and I have always had access to emails and such.
When they were communicating through facebook she was smart enough to delete all the facebook messages right after they had been sent and read and as much as I have tried you cannot recover facebook messages once they have been deleted, only if they have been archived.
As for cell phone records I have been ontop of those from the start and this is probably one of the only times I regret having iphones. I phone has the imessages which do not show as a message on the phone bill. A sort of internal messaging system. Although since then I have had access to those as well.
She was smart about covering her tracks in some ways and dumb about it in others.
Since then I have kept a close watchful eye and accounted for her whereabouts at all times. As of right now at this moment the only way he could contact her or her contact him without me knowing would be on the phone at her place of employment unless she got REALLY smart and figured some type of way to continue..I doubt that she has though, I have made her life a living hell since all this has come to light and I am surprised I haven't chased her out the door already as much as I have been on her case. I cant honestly say she regrets what had happened but I promise you she regrets getting caught.


----------



## LostViking

Stop berating her. Go the opposite direction. Do the 180 until you see some remorse and a true desire to save the marriage on her part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Refuse to be played

hjones1971 said:


> Yes she has stopped communicating with him that I have seen and yes I have access and transparency...
> she pretty much stays off the computer(not very computer literate) and I have always had access to emails and such.
> When they were communicating through facebook she was smart enough to delete all the facebook messages right after they had been sent and read and as much as I have tried you cannot recover facebook messages once they have been deleted, only if they have been archived.
> As for cell phone records I have been ontop of those from the start and this is probably one of the only times I regret having iphones. I phone has the imessages which do not show as a message on the phone bill. A sort of internal messaging system. Although since then I have had access to those as well.
> She was smart about covering her tracks in some ways and dumb about it in others.
> Since then I have kept a close watchful eye and accounted for her whereabouts at all times. As of right now at this moment the only way he could contact her or her contact him without me knowing would be on the phone at her place of employment unless she got REALLY smart and figured some type of way to continue..I doubt that she has though, I have made her life a living hell since all this has come to light and I am surprised I haven't chased her out the door already as much as I have been on her case. I cant honestly say she regrets what had happened but I promise you she regrets getting caught.


If she isn't all that remorseful then there is a good chance it isn't over or won't start again after awhile. Be sure to check for data usage on her phone. Certain apps have chat features. Also watch out for a burner phone.

Might want to follow through with weightlifter's instructions to make sure:



weightlifter said:


> Here you go. Step by step. I cant go out and get these for you.
> 
> New and slightly improved.
> 
> VARs and evidence
> 
> Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar?
> 
> If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.
> 
> Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.
> 
> So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.
> 
> NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.
> 
> Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.
> 
> Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
> Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
> Set VOR "on" see page 38
> See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
> Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT
> Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.
> 
> Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
> This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener VEK90117: Office : Walmart.com
> also
> Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.
> The velcro is usually in the fabric section or the aisle with the fasteners like screws.
> 
> Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
> attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat.
> 
> ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
> I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.
> 
> Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.
> 
> Amazon has a pen VAR that can be placed in a purse or other small place to get remote conversations. Yes the pen works.
> 
> Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.
> 
> If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for four men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!
> 
> If your wife comes home from an alone time does she immediately change liners, change panties possibly even immediately laundering them?, shower? This can be an after the fact clean up. Amazon sells a semen detection kit called checkmate.
> 
> The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful. There is even a locator webpage you can track with.
> 
> Look for a burner phone. This is a second phone from a prepay service just used for cheating communications. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone" The dont use their main phone for cheating purposes.
> 
> Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
> Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex
> 
> A completely different direction could be the lie detector. Here is how it works. You say fine, all you did was talk.
> 
> We are going to take a polygraph. You have until we enter the door of the polygraph place to change your answer. There are 3 possible outcomes.
> 
> If you pass and simply talked. I will shut up about this beyond you having no more inappropriate contact with other men. Understand what you had is an emotional affair but I love you and I will work this out.
> 
> If you pass after admitting cheating I will still consider the idea of keeping our marriage as I love you. Understand you must provide all details upon demand about the affair and never have contact again.
> 
> If you still insist that nothing happened and you are found to be a liar, I will divorce you as not only a cheat, but a liar to boot.
> 
> A lot of women change their stories literally before entering the polygraph building. We call them parking lot confessions.


----------



## Chaparral

There is a tread here that says you can set up your iphone to receive her imessages.


----------



## Refuse to be played

Chaparral said:


> There is a tread here that says you can set up your iphone to receive her imessages.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/50563-anyone-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html

Also OP for future things you might want to try installing a spy app on her phone if you have the coin for it. It works wonders at keeping tabs. Read up on it, here is the link.

iPhone Spy Software – Mobile Spy iPhone Monitoring App


----------



## hjones1971

Refuse to be played said:


> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/50563-anyone-interested-evidence-gathering-thread.html
> 
> Also OP for future things you might want to try installing a spy app on her phone if you have the coin for it. It works wonders at keeping tabs. Read up on it, here is the link.
> 
> iPhone Spy Software – Mobile Spy iPhone Monitoring App


I've already set up to receive imessages so I have that part covered. Once the imessage is sent yes she can delete it off her phone but it still remains on my device so I can look at any point in time.(hind sight is 20/20 and man do I wish I had this set up before all this mess)
as for the spy apps ive looked into them and I haven't run across one as of yet for the iphone where the phone doesn't have to be jailbroken and there isn't a jailbreak out yet for 6.1.3 which is the OS being run on our phones..
ive kept an eye out for jailbreaks especially redsnow and evasion which tend to be the best but neither has come out with one and it seems they are waiting for the 7.0 update.


----------



## Remains

Keeping tabs is good...I am assuming she is not aware that you keep tabs on her Imessage app? And the other things that you are doing to verify?

But you also need to give her enough rope to hang herself on. While you are being extra vigilant....so is she. 

After all, you want her to WANT to stay faithful? Yes? Try and come down from your highly (and understandably so) scrutinizing position and let her think, when the time is right, that you are getting comfortable again, that you believe her (if indeed she is still keeping up the BS and refusing to give you truth), and then watch closely. If she is not coming clean, she is probably not fully over it and will likely contact him again once the heat is off. If she is not coming clean, and you stay with her, she is likely to cheat again regardless of when or who. As soon as the right circumstances present....

Why you would want to continue though while she is filling you with such utter rubbish I do not know (actually, I do have some idea...my man was the same). It is very disrespectful. And if she disrespects you, she doesn't truly love you. And it is time to get out.


----------



## Refuse to be played

hjones1971 said:


> I've already set up to receive imessages so I have that part covered. Once the imessage is sent yes she can delete it off her phone but it still remains on my device so I can look at any point in time.(hind sight is 20/20 and man do I wish I had this set up before all this mess)
> as for the spy apps ive looked into them and I haven't run across one as of yet for the iphone where the phone doesn't have to be jailbroken and there isn't a jailbreak out yet for 6.1.3 which is the OS being run on our phones..
> ive kept an eye out for jailbreaks especially redsnow and evasion which tend to be the best but neither has come out with one and it seems they are waiting for the 7.0 update.


Thank god we have androids. SO much easier.

I don't think there are any spy apps that can be installed on a iPhone without jailbreaking. Here is the link to a good resource site for all stuff apple, they might have what your looking for.

iClarified - Tutorials - iPhone


----------



## hjones1971

Refuse to be played said:


> Thank god we have androids. SO much easier.
> 
> I don't think there are any spy apps that can be installed on a iPhone without jailbreaking. Here is the link to a good resource site for all stuff apple, they might have what your looking for.
> 
> iClarified - Tutorials - iPhone


thanks, I will take a look into it and do some reading..and I agree, I think this is the one time ive truly regretted having iphones


----------



## happyman64

Weightlifter or devastated dad might have insight regarding iPhones.....


----------



## Shaggy

If you want to pull it ll out in the open from her then arrange a polygraph. Tell her it's her chance to be honest because you just can't believe there was no sex.


----------



## workindad

hjones1971 said:


> I cant honestly say she regrets what had happened but I promise you she regrets getting caught.



I would imagine you are very correct with this statement. Unfortunately, very correct.

She will get smarter with her communication. She may lay low for a while, but she be back over to him sooner than you think.

Demand a polygraph and put the vars and kelyloggers in place.


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

I also hope your foolish WW now sees what a cowardly POS this other guy is.

What a p***y.

After 15 minutes of you knocking on the door, he cowers in his place while he sends her out to face the music alone.

This should be a clear sign to her fogged up mind that this was never more than an easy piece of a** to this scumbag.

It certainly wasn't worth the drama of dealing with an angry BH at his door.

He in no way tried to shelter or support her as she walked out to face the music.

I hope she realizes how she was just used by this cowardly piece of garbage.


----------



## hjones1971

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> I also hope your foolish WW now sees what a cowardly POS this other guy is.
> 
> What a p***y.
> 
> After 15 minutes of you knocking on the door, he cowers in his place while he sends her out to face the music alone.
> 
> This should be a clear sign to her fogged up mind that this was never more than an easy piece of a** to this scumbag.
> 
> It certainly wasn't worth the drama of dealing with an angry BH at his door.
> 
> He in no way tried to shelter or support her as she walked out to face the music.
> 
> I hope she realizes how she was just used by this cowardly piece of garbage.


Funny you say that. Its EXACTLY what happened and exactly what I had told her. Of course I'm sitting out there feeling like an idiot with smoke coming out of my ears and then a little while later it was almost comical the way she came out the door and how fast it had shut. I NEVER even saw him. It was almost as if he pushed her silly ass out the door and slammed it shut


----------



## Refuse to be played

hjones1971 said:


> Funny you say that. Its EXACTLY what happened and exactly what I had told her. Of course I'm sitting out there feeling like an idiot with smoke coming out of my ears and then a little while later it was almost comical the way she came out the door and how fast it had shut. I NEVER even saw him. It was almost as if he pushed her silly ass out the door and slammed it shut


Wow what a coward. I hope you pointed out to her what a punk b###h her OM was. The basically threw her to the wolves (no offense). If you did what was her reaction to that?


----------



## Dyokemm

OP,

POS AP's who destroy marriage relationships and families for their own selfish gratification, like the s**tbag in your scenario, completely infuriate me.

I think they truly need beatdowns so severe that they have PTSD if they ever even think about messing with other people's lives in the future.

Too bad there are no infidelity vigilante groups, where members in ski masks crush these a******s and then disappear into the night.


----------



## Refuse to be played

Dyokemm said:


> OP,
> 
> POS AP's who destroy marriage relationships and families for their own selfish gratification, like the s**tbag in your scenario, completely infuriate me.
> 
> I think they truly need beatdowns so severe that they have PTSD if they ever even think about messing with other people's lives in the future.
> 
> Too bad there are no infidelity vigilante groups, where members in ski masks crush these a******s and then disappear into the night.


Who says you can't. Depending on where your located all you'd have to do after your finish is take his wallet, cell phone, watch, and shoes and it'll look like a random mugging. :FIREdevil:


----------



## hjones1971

Refuse to be played said:


> Wow what a coward. I hope you pointed out to her what a punk b###h her OM was. The basically threw her to the wolves (no offense). If you did what was her reaction to that?


oddly enough when I pointed that out to her among other things you could see her sitting there getting pretty pissed off about it and coming to the realization. One of those looks that says "I'm pissed off and feel like an idiot"...She claimed that whole "he made me feel wanted" nonsense. So I told her if he wanted her so bad why hasn't her phone rang on the trip home and all damn night while we were arguing, told her its easy for someone who is not involved with you to make you feel wanted because youre something new. Any moron can walk into a bar and someone flirt with them and they automatically feel wanted and getting attention. There is not a guy around if he is out and about and some woman start flirting with him it would boost his ego and make him feel good and wanted and the same goes for a woman. 
I pointed out that he was a chicken sh*t for pushing her out the door like that.
She claimed that getting closure BS so I told her how her "talking" went. 
"let me guess, you brought up your issues and he briefly addressed them and then took the conversation to wondering what would have been and what could be. let me guess you took the conversation BACK to your closure and concerns and he gave a quick acknowledgement and took the conversation right back to how he misses you and wants you back."
Once I told her how her own conversation went without knowing any details of it, it clicked in her head and you could see she felt pretty stupid.

so then ontop of that I asked her
Q:"is he married?
A: I don't know
Q: does he have a GF
A: I don't know
Q: where does he work
A: im not sure
That's when I blew a gasket and called her all kinds of lying Bs etc..
I calmed down and carefully explained to her that she must think im some type of idiot or moron to think that she spent all this time 'TALKING" to this dude and she knows NOTHING about him.
Personally when I catch up with people I haven't seen in years I pretty much find out the basics about whats been going on in their lives.
So to top it off I threw a low blow in their..
Not to get graphic or put business out there but the night before I had got her from his house ,we will say she "entertained me" so I looked at her and told her the next time she spoke to him to ask him how my D*** tasted and if he liked it...of course that sent her through the roof...but then I got pissed off and looked at her and said "damn should he be asking me the same thing ...and I pretty much ended that nights argument on that note.


----------



## azteca1986

hjones1971 said:


> I looked at her and told her the next time she spoke to him to ask him how my D*** tasted and if he liked it...*of course that sent her through the roof*...


That should show you where her loyalties lie. It's not to you, no matter how right you've read her situation. She got mad because you disrespected her man...


----------



## catsa

take a look at "Teen Safe"- for iphones, no jailbreak needed, free 7 day trial. Good luck.


----------



## tdwal

catsa said:


> take a look at "Teen Safe"- for iphones, no jailbreak needed, free 7 day trial. Good luck.


Very cool


----------



## Thor

Catsa, what's your story? All 4 of your posts have been advocating for one of several monitoring products. Do you have any affiliation or connection with these products?


----------



## Shaggy

Pointing out that after all that talking she should know all about him was priceless.


----------



## Dyokemm

Shaggy, 

But I'd bet money she could give a detailed description of his naked body and the sex positions he liked.


----------



## catsa

Thor-I have no affiliation with any of the products I've recommended. Ive been lurking for a whie: I just know how overwhelming it can be to look for monitoring stuff that will be stealth. I've spent lots of money on things that don't work. Just google "Keylogger"- it's overwhelming. And the things I've suggested are varied, who would I be affiliated with??? I'm just trying to help BS's who may not be tech savvy but need info.

If the stuff I've recommended were links to crap.,I would understand your concern.


----------



## harrybrown

Have you made her go get tested for stds? I would file for divorce and see how she handles that.


----------



## toonaive

Alot of changes in the past few days. Information for you to sift through. A future you need to think about. Do you want her back? Does she want you to want her back? Does she want to come back to you? If so, have you decided on what YOUR terms are, and how you will go about it? If your answer to these are no, then go ahead and file. The sooner you do it the better. Your marriage is done. Its a rotten place for you to be at the moment.


----------



## hjones1971

catsa said:


> take a look at "Teen Safe"- for iphones, no jailbreak needed, free 7 day trial. Good luck.


I tried teensafe and from what I have noticed it doesn't log everything and is several days late. I know the phone has to be back up regular in order for it to function properly because teensafe really doesn't log the phone it actually logs the back up of the phone. So therefor say youre out and about and not at a wifi spot and you receive or send a text, you can realistically delete the text and it will never make it to teensafe because it will only record when the phone gets backed up next. (the nest time you get into a wifi spot)
I had set the phone to back up regular via wifi but bottom line is its only recording what it backs up when at home on the wifi.
and teensafes call logging is garbage.


----------



## hjones1971

Shaggy said:


> Pointing out that after all that talking she should know all about him was priceless.


when I asked about a GF or him being married and she said she didn't know. I was like how the "f" do you not know this after all this time with him. Did it look like a woman lived in the house, did the place have a womans touch? even the bathroom. when a woman is often at a mans place or lives with him there will be a womans touch somewhere in the house and she claims she didn't notice.
So I calmly explained to her that only a couple of weeks earlier she had spotted a single strand of hair in the BACKSEAT of my SUV when she was getting in the front seat and went ballistic on me thinking I was fooling around and it turns out it was her own hair.
So I told her to explain to me how she can spot a single strand of hair in my backseat from her getting in the front seat but she doesn't notice anything about a guys house that she spent 4 days in. Then told her it was because she was too busy "f&*#ing" to notice.


----------



## mahike

She knows as you have figured out she just does not want to admit anything to you. 

Get yourself tested for STDs and do not even thing of having sex with your wife unless she is tested and shows you the results.

Get into IC for yourself right away

File for D and start the 180

Go back and knock on the door and see who answers you should be able to look him up on the internet and find out if he is married or not.

Expose the A, you really do not need anything else. 

Do you have kids to deal with?


----------



## Chaparral

Ifyou have his name and phone number go to spokeo.com and see if they have info.


----------



## Chaparral

How is your wife acting, is she crying ,remorseful,begging you not to divorce her?


----------



## hjones1971

Chaparral said:


> How is your wife acting, is she crying ,remorseful,begging you not to divorce her?


She actually pretty much submitting to anything I ask. I have access to everything, password,photos, account for whereabouts at all times. Takes photos of the area she is in and who she is with.

As for the guy, Sad to say and I pointed it out to her that I have more information about him than she does. I have his name, email, phone number, place of employment, whos name his house is under, whos name his home phone is under, his home address, his work address. Years ago I remember her talking about him and saying he had gotten arrested for something and he would never tell her what it was, and she actually brought that up again during our talks about how secretive he was and she still didn't know what it was for...So I looked up and said "he got arrested during this this month of this year right?" she said "yes around that time" so I then told her what he had gotten arrested for. then I gave her a photo of him and said "this is him right"...and of course she looked at me dumb founded.
so I've got all kinds of information on this piece of garbage and he is very lucky I am a person of sound mind and haven't gone off on a tangent and wreaked a lot of havoc on him...and he doesn't even know it...
I could have reacted very violently but did not and will not (unless forced).
And if I knew hackers like I did in my younger days then I just would have given them the information I have and allow them to make things very difficult and irritating for him


----------



## hjones1971

Chaparral said:


> How is your wife acting, is she crying ,remorseful,begging you not to divorce her?


and yes she has been begging to make this work and to stay...in my own mind I kind of write it off as any cheater would do once they've gotten caught...im not concerned so much with the words that come out of her lying mouth as I am with her actions. I've been doing a lot of talking and questioning but EVEN MORE watching and seeing.


----------



## Acabado

Tell her the ball is in her court, that's she's not the first woman in this world in this predicament of triyng to reconcile a marriage after becoming a cheater, that there're tons of books, counselors, online advice on "how to", that she needs to take charge and be proactive.
She get her big girl pants and soldier on. ASAP.
And the first step is stop lying and fully disclosing to your entire satisfaction and taking ownership of her actions.
I'd never send her here but there're another websites you can manage to point her out with telling her so. Same with the books.


----------



## Shaggy

He needs to be up on cheaterville.com then. Remember to use his booking mug shot


----------



## tom67

Shaggy said:


> He needs to be up on cheaterville.com then. Remember to use his booking mug shot


:iagree::lol::lol::rofl:


----------



## the guy

Good job.

I found alot more about OM and my old lady finally realized what she was up against when it came to me no longer putting up with her crap.

Has she denounced the OM has she mention any disdain for him?

Often a wayward protect AP and that is a very bad sign.


----------



## warlock07

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are making her see what the OM actually is and she was manipulated into doing what she did. For all that you know, it was your wife that pursued him in the first place and he did not refuse what was offered. You are not enlightening your wife to these things. She pretty well knew what she was getting into. It wasn't an accident. She was deleting FB messages and was accusing you of affairs. Pretty intentional. She isn't as dumb as you thhink she is. She just doesn't want the repercussions.

Tell us a bit about your financial situation(jobs)


----------



## the guy

What is her plan to affair proof the marriage in the future?


----------



## the guy

How is she going to adress her validation issues, or her intitlement issues, or what every screwed up reason that she risked everything for a POS


----------



## badmemory

hjones1971 said:


> When they were communicating through facebook she was smart enough to delete all the facebook messages right after they had been sent and read and as much as I have tried you cannot recover facebook messages once they have been deleted, only if they have been archived.


Facebook messages were how the POSOM and my wife communicated for the most part. Of course she deleted all of them. But I was able to recover them because my wife isn't tech savvy and neither was the POSOM. And also because I got lucky. 

You are correct that you can't retrieve non-archived FB messages from FB. But when a Facebook message is received, unless the settings have been changed, the message is copied to the receiver's listed e-mail. That means every message he sent her was sent to her e-mail.

I'm sure she has deleted all her e-mail, just like my wife did. But I was fortunate that we used Outlook, which keeps all the deleted messages in a hard to find folder on the hard drive. I used e-mail recovery software to grab them. Unfortunately, if they're using an internet based e-mail program like yahoo, this won't work, and it seems most people do now days.

But I give this information to BS's from time to time, even if there's only a small chance the WS uses the right type of e-mail program. Because if she does, you're in business.

Feel free to PM me if I can help you.


----------



## Thor

catsa said:


> Thor-I have no affiliation with any of the products I've recommended. Ive been lurking for a whie: I just know how overwhelming it can be to look for monitoring stuff that will be stealth. I've spent lots of money on things that don't work. Just google "Keylogger"- it's overwhelming. And the things I've suggested are varied, who would I be affiliated with??? I'm just trying to help BS's who may not be tech savvy but need info.
> 
> If the stuff I've recommended were links to crap.,I would understand your concern.


Cool, and thanks for explaining. We've had shills show up here who start pimping products. I couldn't tell if those products were from the same manufacturers, the websites are definitely different for each.

Perhaps you could add to the thread on spying with your experiences with those products.


----------



## hjones1971

the guy said:


> Good job.
> 
> I found alot more about OM and my old lady finally realized what she was up against when it came to me no longer putting up with her crap.
> 
> Has she denounced the OM has she mention any disdain for him?
> 
> Often a wayward protect AP and that is a very bad sign.


She has not attempted to protect or defend him in any way.


----------



## hjones1971

warlock07 said:


> Don't fall into the trap of thinking that you are making her see what the OM actually is and she was manipulated into doing what she did. For all that you know, it was your wife that pursued him in the first place and he did not refuse what was offered. You are not enlightening your wife to these things. She pretty well knew what she was getting into. It wasn't an accident. She was deleting FB messages and was accusing you of affairs. Pretty intentional. She isn't as dumb as you thhink she is. She just doesn't want the repercussions.
> 
> Tell us a bit about your financial situation(jobs)


not falling into the trap and as far as I am concerned SHE WAS the one that persued him and so far there is NO WAY she can convince me anything different...that part isn't rocket science..
guy with no damn car gets in touch with girl
girl with car goes to his damn house to pick him and and take him where the hell ever they went to and then back to his place on 4 separate occasions that I know of for sure..
As far as im concerned that tells me it was her a55 chasing after him..I don't see it any other way and that's exactly what I had told her...


----------



## Truthseeker1

hjones1971 said:


> not falling into the trap and as far as I am concerned SHE WAS the one that persued him and so far there is NO WAY she can convince me anything different...that part isn't rocket science..
> guy with no damn car gets in touch with girl
> girl with car goes to his damn house to pick him and and take him where the hell ever they went to and then back to his place on 4 separate occasions that I know of for sure..
> As far as im concerned that tells me it was her a55 chasing after him..I don't see it any other way and that's exactly what I had told her...


She needs to come clean about every detail of the affair that you ask about...period...there is no way to reconcile if she is still keeping secrets...


----------



## TDSC60

So where is your mind at now? Leave? R? Wait and see what happens? Or confused and don't know what to do?


----------



## hjones1971

TDSC60 said:


> So where is your mind at now? Leave? R? Wait and see what happens? Or confused and don't know what to do?


A lot of all of that. Part says to chalk it up and move onward with life without her.
Part (a lot) wants to reconcile
and of course a bunch of confusion and trying to figure out what I really want and what I really want to do.
Of course there are good days and bad days..
days when there are smiles, fun and reconciliation and then the days when I want to blow a gasket and go off on a tangent..
Cant trust her for **** now even when I know shes telling the truth, theres always that linger in the back of my mind if shes really doing what she says she is..
if she goes to dinner with my sister she can send photos and I can confirm with my sister and in the back of my mind a thought will cross "did she pull one over and get my sister involved in her mess"
When she sends photos of where she is confirming there will always be the thought..."well she could have preplanned and took the photos at another time..
basically my head/mind is in overdrive and everything is a conspiracy and I can find a loophole in every story


----------



## mahike

Yep the doubt will go on for awhile. Have you started and IC or MC yet? I may have missed this but has she come clean on what they were completely up too?


----------



## hjones1971

mahike said:


> Yep the doubt will go on for awhile. Have you started and IC or MC yet? I may have missed this but has she come clean on what they were completely up too?


Actually that's the main issue I have is that she keeps holding onto her lie, and THATS the part that has me halfway out the door. The deed itself no doubt im angry about but I can work through. Holding onto the lie is insulting my intelligence and pissing me off. Have not started IC or MC "YET" have been doing some half ass research on ones in our area, most of which label themselves as "Christian counselors" and although I have no problem with that I will blow a gasket if someone tells me to pray about it...


----------



## warlock07

So she hasn't confessed anything ?


----------



## tom67

warlock07 said:


> So she hasn't confessed anything ?


Has she or not?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

hjones1971 said:


> *Actually that's the main issue I have is that she keeps holding onto her lie, and THATS the part that has me halfway out the door. The deed itself no doubt im angry about but I can work through.* Holding onto the lie is insulting my intelligence and pissing me off. Have not started IC or MC "YET" have been doing some half ass research on ones in our area, most of which label themselves as "Christian counselors" and although I have no problem with that I will blow a gasket if someone tells me to pray about it...


Really!...

For me, the fact that she's been getting pumped by another man for the better part of the last year would be at the top of my list of reasons that I was p!ssed at her...

BTW, it ain't over by a long shot. In time, if the OM starts contacting her again, it's VERY likely that she'll be laying down for him once again.


----------



## mahike

hjones1971 said:


> Actually that's the main issue I have is that she keeps holding onto her lie, and THATS the part that has me halfway out the door. The deed itself no doubt im angry about but I can work through. Holding onto the lie is insulting my intelligence and pissing me off. Have not started IC or MC "YET" have been doing some half ass research on ones in our area, most of which label themselves as "Christian counselors" and although I have no problem with that I will blow a gasket if someone tells me to pray about it...


I went to a Christian Counselor and I let them know from the start no scripture no praying no questions about our beliefs unless we brought them up and they agreed. 

I started out with them for IC. I was so angry I wanted to break, beat up everything and I knew that would make it worse. It helped a great deal. I told my wife that going to MC was not optional if she lied or refused to go there was the door. After about 2 months she was scheduling the sessions and doing the work. At about 4 months in my wife confessed to some lies in MC about what she had disclosed to me and the counselor. 

So be prepared. It is also OK to tell her you do not believe her. Remember no sex unless she and you are test for STD's.

One ugly stat about A's is for the most part unprotected sex.


----------



## Dad&Hubby

hjones1971 said:


> Actually that's the main issue I have is that she keeps holding onto her lie, and THATS the part that has me halfway out the door. The deed itself no doubt im angry about but I can work through. Holding onto the lie is insulting my intelligence and pissing me off. Have not started IC or MC "YET" have been doing some half ass research on ones in our area, most of which label themselves as "Christian counselors" and although I have no problem with that I will blow a gasket if someone tells me to pray about it...


Because there is ZERO percent chance of a real R until she's 100% honest. R works when the WS takes ownership of their actions and fully admits it.


----------



## tom67

Threaten her with a polygraph, I didn't say pay for one. Go and drive her to one ask her in the parking lot if she has anything to tell you. If she spills the beans fine if she doesn't then just say we are done and I wasn't going to waste $500 on you anyway.:lol:


----------



## hereinthemidwest

Look in her bra and panty dresser draw. You find NEW items that you haven't seen before? If so, You won't need to hear a confession.


----------



## hjones1971

tom67 said:


> Has she or not?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Confessed to everything but intercourse..(everything that I know of but intercourse)...
When I busted her I left little room for debate..I had suspected something was up, I say back patiently and each time I knew she was with him I blew up her phone with calls and text 1. to try and give her the benefit of the doubt 2. to give her a chance to get out of the situation she was in.
At first I didn't know where it was she was going or who with, just knew that something was up.
finally she made a crucial mistake and I heard her navigation go off while I was on the phone with her one time.
so next time I was near her car I just went and got the last input address out of it.
Of course she started out to confessing ONLY what she knew that I had known for sure. pretty much confirming what I already knew and not giving me anything more than what I had already knew, but I had found ways around that and pretty much mind tricked her into thinking I knew more than I actually did so I had gotten more info after that.
The very next time I had to go to work and she had the day off I spoke to her that morning on my way to work, started my work day, text and called her shortly after that and it was the same old bull, so I went to the address that was in her nav and found her there...
When she tried to argue and justify I asked her..
Why the hell do you think I chose to wait till you where over there and go get you when I pretty much knew before hand? why don't you think I confronted you when we were at home or waited till you got home and confronted you?
Its because I was leaving no room for debate..i was going to let you see me there at his house and you know that I see you there so theres no denying or arguing or making up stories...
I then told her how silly she was because all I did was give her enough rope to hang herself and she did just that...I then pointed out to her all the times I gave her opportunity to stop and get out of the situation that she ignored and too caught up in what she was doing to pick up on.


----------



## hjones1971

hereinthemidwest said:


> Look in her bra and panty dresser draw. You find NEW items that you haven't before? If so, You won't need to hear a confession.


nothing new


----------



## the guy

She still hasn;t answered for the time laps between you knocking on the door and her getting "pushed" out the door by OM..or has she?

Sorry if i missed it.


----------



## badbane

hjones I wouldn't waste another minute reconciling until she admitted everything. I would start divorce proceedings and start heading out the door. If she can't come clean, you two won't be able to deal with it. You will resent her, She will start to resent you. It sounds like you need the whole truth to R. If that is the case then don't settle. Keep prodding keep digging. Somedaydig has a good thread on here about digging for the truth. I don't have the link and he got banned awhile back. but if anyone knows that thread could you post the link up.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

OP:

sorry your in such a situation in a 20 year marriage. a few comments and questions:

......

i. any good reason to believe this is the only time in 20 years that she has been unfaithful?

ii. Remorseful or not, why do you still want her?? she is a mess.
do you think you couldn't do any better? do you think you "owe" her a 2nd chance? e.g. for sticking with you for 20 years..........

iii. It's obvious there there are better women than her out there. do you not think you deserve any better??


----------



## Refuse to be played

If she is still bulls###ing about the PA call her bluff with a polygraph. Call your local police for numbers. Ask her to detail the entire thing one last time. Record it. Then tell her you have an appointment set up for her to take the polygraph. If she fails or refuses to take it then its an automatic D. 20 bucks says she'll come clean within a day or two. Even if she does admit more though make her do it anyway.


----------



## workindad

Have you discussed a polygraph with her? Be prepared with details like where in your area and how much.

What is her reaction? Be prepared to follow thru. Your odds of the parking lot confession are very high.


----------



## hjones1971

the guy said:


> She still hasn;t answered for the time laps between you knocking on the door and her getting "pushed" out the door by OM..or has she?
> 
> Sorry if i missed it.


no she has NOT...Yes she gave me an excuse/story I just don't buy it is all...
Her claim is it freaked her out that I was even there and that she had gotten busted and didn't know what to do and was panicking. was sitting in there trying to figure out what to do in "oh sh*t" mode and was scared to come out because she wasn't sure how I was going to react.
I asked her "in 20yrs have I EVER put my hands on you?" she said "no" so then I told her she was lying because she knew damn well although I would be pissed that I wasn't going to hit her.


----------



## LostViking

You know it is damn near impossible for her to have been with th OM that long and do everything but have intercourse. No way. We all know, you know it. 

I'm with th others. Start filling out the D paperwork and packing up and tell her if she doesn't come clean you're walking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

Make a polygraph appointment. Tell her that's part of what it's going to take. More than likely she'll give herself up before you get in to the appointment. 

Take care.


----------



## Truthseeker1

hjones1971 said:


> no she has NOT...Yes she gave me an excuse/story I just don't buy it is all...
> Her claim is it freaked her out that I was even there and that she had gotten busted and didn't know what to do and was panicking. was sitting in there trying to figure out what to do in "oh sh*t" mode and was scared to come out because she wasn't sure how I was going to react.
> I asked her "in 20yrs have I EVER put my hands on you?" she said "no" so then I told her she was lying because she knew damn well although I would be pissed that I wasn't going to hit her.


No truth..no tranparency..no reconciliation..she does not deserve a second chance the way she is acting now..she deserves to have her lying butt kicked to the curb...her lack of honesty shows a profound sense of disrespect towards you and your marriage..she is NOT willing to do anything she has to do to save the marriage...what does that tell you about how much she values the marriage? 

This woman is not willing to do the heavy lifting...you might want to start D proceedings to see if it shakes her out of it...are you her plan b? Did he kick her to the curb and that is why she is running back to you? Do you want to live the rest of youe life being your wife's plan b? You have a lot of stuff to unpack here before you can even contemplate a reconcilliation with this woman and the more she lies the harder a R will be...


----------



## Shaggy

I think it's time for you to call her out.

On Friday afternoon ...

Tell her she needs to take a polygraph and come fully clean or you are gone for good.

Then leave and go away for Fri and Sat. Disappear and tell her when you get back, but don't tell her when you'll be back, that you want the truth and the times and place she's arranged for the polygraph.

Tell her If she's not there when you get back, then you will have your answer. That'll keep her close to home.


----------



## weightlifter

hjones1971 said:


> Actually that's the main issue I have is that she keeps holding onto her lie, and THATS the part that has me halfway out the door. The deed itself no doubt im angry about but I can work through. Holding onto the lie is insulting my intelligence and pissing me off. Have not started IC or MC "YET" have been doing some half ass research on ones in our area, most of which label themselves as "Christian counselors" and although I have no problem with that I will blow a gasket if someone tells me to pray about it...


Im am a Christian. I have always gone by the idea that God EXPECTS you to take the most effective path as long is it does not violate biblical principles. He expects you to pray about it also.

IE God will accept a Christian Scientist who professes Jesus as his savior but still convict them for not using medicine to save their child. Short version: Why do you think God invented doctors?


----------



## WyshIknew

hjones1971 said:


> Actually that's the main issue I have is that she keeps holding onto her lie, and THATS the part that has me halfway out the door. The deed itself no doubt im angry about but I can work through. Holding onto the lie is insulting my intelligence and pissing me off. Have not started IC or MC "YET" have been doing some half ass research on ones in our area, most of which label themselves as "Christian counselors" and although I have no problem with that I will blow a gasket if someone tells me to pray about it...


Well when you talk to the counsellors to decide which to use, explain that you are an atheist, agnostic, catholic, wiccan whatever.

If they are good professionals they will work with you and not push their religion or lack of religion at you.


----------



## warlock07

What is the point of threatening a polygraph to get the truth...


----------



## ThePheonix

The Guy, it maybe just me but its not the 15 min time lag getting to the door. Its the hours she spent at his house.


----------



## WyshIknew

Yea but they just talked.


----------



## theroad

WyshIknew said:


> Yea but they just talked.


:rofl:

Polygraph is a must.


----------



## weightlifter

warlock07 said:


> What is the point of threatening a polygraph to get the truth...


1) They are semi effective in their own right used by someone who has no training against them.
2) The are VERY effective as a wedge to end trickle truth. It goes like this.

In order for me to consider R I need you to take a polygraph. I will ask you about your affairs. There are 2 possible outcomes.

1) You may change your answer any time up to the door of the building. At that point your answers are locked. If you pass I will consider R
2) You fail. We will divorce and I will do everything in my power to Divorce and remove you from my heart and my life in every possible facet of my life.

We have TONS of what we call "Parking lot confessions" The person confesses literally in the parking lot of the polygraph.


----------



## hjones1971

WyshIknew said:


> Well when you talk to the counsellors to decide which to use, explain that you are an atheist, agnostic, catholic, wiccan whatever.
> 
> If they are good professionals they will work with you and not push their religion or lack of religion at you.


My apologies I probably should have been more clear. Its not that I am not Christian, I am very much Christian. That being said I already know how to pray and I don't need to pay somebody to tell me to pray or who wants to pray with me nor do I want them to take it as an opportunity for them to tell me about god. However I get your point and so that is what I will do. Let them know that I believe the same as them but I don't want them bringing it into counseling.


----------



## WyshIknew

hjones1971 said:


> My apologies I probably should have been more clear. Its not that I am not Christian, I am very much Christian. That being said I already know how to pray and I don't need to pay somebody to tell me to pray or who wants to pray with me nor do I want them to take it as an opportunity for them to tell me about god. However I get your point and so that is what I will do. Let them know that I believe the same as them but I don't want them bringing it into counseling.


Hjones, you mention that she has confessed to everything but intercourse.

Without going into salacious detail what has she confessed to?

Because if she has confessed to oral HJ's etc that is;

A, bad enough and is a deal killer for many.
B, makes it even more unbelievable that intercourse occurred.


----------



## hjones1971

WyshIknew said:


> Hjones, you mention that she has confessed to everything but intercourse.
> 
> Without going into salacious detail what has she confessed to?
> 
> Because if she has confessed to oral HJ's etc that is;
> 
> A, bad enough and is a deal killer for many.
> B, makes it even more unbelievable that intercourse occurred.


Good question and now that I think about it even more I've gotten aggravated again. She has actually confessed to nothing that I didn't already know. Her claim is that she did indeed kiss him but no "sexual" contact meaning no BJ's HJ's clothes stayed fully on the entire time(this is her claim). She is normally not and has never been since I've known her a sexually aggressive woman so it is unlikely of her to actually initiate sexual contact however im not a complete idiot and although I would doubt her initiating I wouldn't doubt him initiating and her allowing it to continue and THAT is what I believe happened behind closed doors ESPECIALLY since he was an ex lover/BF regardless of what she says.


----------



## barbados

hjones1971 said:


> Good question and now that I think about it even more I've gotten aggravated again. She has actually confessed to nothing that I didn't already know. Her claim is that *she did indeed kiss him but no "sexual" contact* meaning no BJ's HJ's clothes stayed fully on the entire time(this is her claim). She is normally not and has never been since I've known her a sexually aggressive woman so it is unlikely of her to actually initiate sexual contact however im not a complete idiot and although I would doubt her initiating I wouldn't doubt him initiating and her allowing it to continue and THAT is what I believe happened behind closed doors ESPECIALLY since he was an ex lover/BF regardless of what she says.


*THEY JUST KISSED = THEY HAD SEX !!!*

You are in complete denial here. She is TTing you big time.


----------



## KanDo

You still haven't demanded a polygraph. The simple scheduling has gotten the truth more than once. IMHO, she is showing no remorse. Time to file. If you think it matters, do the polygraph and see how she responds.


----------



## WyshIknew

barbados said:


> *THEY JUST KISSED = THEY HAD SEX !!!*
> 
> You are in complete denial here. She is TTing you big time.


To be fair, Barbados I do think that he does get it. He is saying that he doesn't believe it but he just doesn't know how to extract the truth from her.


----------



## Refuse to be played

Refuse to be played said:


> If she is still bulls###ing about the PA call her bluff with a polygraph. Call your local police for numbers. Ask her to detail the entire thing one last time. Record it. Then tell her you have an appointment set up for her to take the polygraph. If she fails or refuses to take it then its an automatic D. 20 bucks says she'll come clean within a day or two. Even if she does admit more though make her do it anyway.


She still saying nothing other than kissing?

Just re-posting in case you missed it.


----------



## hjones1971

WyshIknew said:


> To be fair, Barbados I do think that he does get it. He is saying that he doesn't believe it but he just doesn't know how to extract the truth from her.


exactly...ive said several times I don't buy the story..and the polygraph idea is sounding better and better each time I read it.


----------



## tdwal

hjones1971 said:


> exactly...ive said several times I don't buy the story..and the polygraph idea is sounding better and better each time I read it.


She will give it up before you do it, it will scare the heck out of her when you demand it.


----------



## tom67

tdwal said:


> She will give it up before you do it, it will scare the heck out of her when you demand it.


The threat of one may do the job.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

hjones1971 said:


> Her claim is it freaked her out that I was even there and that she had gotten busted and didn't know what to do and was panicking. was sitting in there trying to figure out what to do in "oh sh*t" mode and was scared to come out because she wasn't sure how I was going to react.
> I asked her "in 20yrs have I EVER put my hands on you?" she said "no" so then I told her she was lying because she knew damn well although I would be pissed that I wasn't going to hit her.


Ah yes, the "I was scared even though you never ever did anything physical or/and mental to me" excuse. It is funny how that excuse NEVER stops them from cheating, but it sure is supposed to make you feel guilty.


----------



## Chaparral

Recently, a poster set up a poly for is wife and just before the test she admitted a short sexual affair and he canceled the test. Later he found out that was still only the tip of the iceberg. She admitted a few things to stop the poly.


----------



## Shaggy

Chaparral said:


> Recently, a poster set up a poly for is wife and just before the test she admitted a short sexual affair and he canceled the test. Later he found out that was still only the tip of the iceberg. She admitted a few things to stop the poly.


Which is why after the parking lot confession you keep the appointment


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

hjones1971 said:


> exactly...ive said several times I don't buy the story..and *the polygraph idea is sounding better and better each time I read it*.


After you tell her that you want to take a poly test, make sure that you have a VAR(s) in place and leave her alone for a few hours afterwards.

If she calls any one to talk about it, you may get some of the answers that she won't give up willingly.

I'm guessing that she won't agree to take a poly right up front.

If she does agree, she'll try to talk you out of it before the poly-date.

If she can't talk you out of it, she make up an excuse and back out herself.


----------



## hjones1971

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Ah yes, the "I was scared even though you never ever did anything physical or/and mental to me" excuse. It is funny how that excuse NEVER stops them from cheating, but it sure is supposed to make you feel guilty.


now THATS funny..the logic in that makes no sense at all...im scared that you will beat my a** but not so scared it will stop me from going through with this...

As for the poly..i like the idea and im going to look into getting a VAR and see what else is out there..set up the VAR and then set up the poly.


----------



## Thor

hjones, is there a reason you want the full truth out of her? I am in limbo with my wife with some good circumstantial evidence of a past affair, though not as blatant as your evidence.

I understand the compulsion to have the truth. Whatever the truth is, it would be a relief.

If you plan on divorcing her, there is perhaps no good reason to find out all the truth. It may be better to move forward with your new life, which means putting the old crap behind you. You know that your wife has had some kind of affair. I think it is worth considering that you might be distracting yourself with trying to pry the truth out of her lips.

No matter what she tells you, you will always have doubts that you have the full story. You will never understand truly why she did this.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Thor said:


> ***EDITED DOWN***
> hjones, *is there a reason you want the full truth out of her?*


I'm not religious at all, but this quote rings so true, no matter what your faith, if any.

"And the truth will set you free."

Some of us have to know the truth. Regardless of whether it has any bearing on an outcome. We need to know, because it's in our nature.

It's like watching the ground getting closer as the plane lands in bad weather. You won't be able to have an effect on if the plane lands safely, but you need to, have to, watch.

A built in situational awareness compels you seek out the truths, the facts and understand how they have and will effect you.


----------



## Thor

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> I'm not religious at all, but this quote rings so true, no matter what your faith, if any.
> 
> "And the truth will set you free."
> 
> Some of us have to know the truth. Regardless of whether it has any bearing on an outcome. We need to know, because it's in our nature.


I am 100% in agreement with you on this. Without rehashing my story, when I finally got some truth after 30+ years all of the pieces suddenly started to make sense.

The question remains though whether OP is distracting himself in a search for this truth, when most likely he will never know if he has total truth.

What he does know already is that there was an affair. That is truth which can set him free. How much more he needs to know is up to him.

I wasted years trying to figure out what was going on. I never did get real answers until she chose to reveal some stuff. Sometimes it is enough truth just to know it is broken, not necessarily every little detail of how it got broken.


----------



## Shaggy

The truth does make you free.

Both when you finally hear it, and when you speak it.


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## Dyokemm

Thor,

I understand the viewpoint of accepting that you may never have all the truth, and that what you do know (in a situation like this) is already d**ning enough. This is true.

But I think that looking at the problem this way also ignores a vital point that will only be solved when the issue of what really happened gets dealt with more thoroughly.

What I'm getting at is this.

How can a person possibly even begin to think about reconciling with a WS who is clinging to the most blatant and obvious of lies?

On what foundation could any trust or communication be established to move the healing process forward?

Yes, it is true that a BS may NEVER get all the details from their scummy WS.

But I don't think a BS can ever accept blatant and ridiculous lies and then rugsweep them and attempt to move forward.

I think the lies will always eventually cripple the relationship going forward.


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## mahike

hjones1971 said:


> Good question and now that I think about it even more I've gotten aggravated again. She has actually confessed to nothing that I didn't already know. Her claim is that she did indeed kiss him but no "sexual" contact meaning no BJ's HJ's clothes stayed fully on the entire time(this is her claim). She is normally not and has never been since I've known her a sexually aggressive woman so it is unlikely of her to actually initiate sexual contact however im not a complete idiot and although I would doubt her initiating I wouldn't doubt him initiating and her allowing it to continue and THAT is what I believe happened behind closed doors ESPECIALLY since he was an ex lover/BF regardless of what she says.


You doubt her initiating sex? I am sure you doubted she would have an A either but it happened. Do not assume you know how your wife is going to react. My wife was sexually different with her AP then she was with me. More aggressive, verbal, fantasies and so forth. 

Do not assume. You are only going to get the truth out of her if she thinks she will lose her happy home. You need to be willing to lose your marriage to save it. That was hard for me to learn.


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## PamJ

<<"And the truth will set you free."

Some of us have to know the truth. Regardless of whether it has any bearing on an outcome. We need to know, because it's in our nature.>>

I am this way, about everything. If someone tells me something I am not familiar with or don't understand, I ask questions. It bugs my H because he thinks I am challenging him when he tells me of a conversation he had or saw something and I ask questions. I am not challenging him I am just trying to understand what was said or what he saw. Then he gets frustrated and says if i want to know more I should ask the person or read the article or whatever.

I like to research things to learn about them, to get the details to understand, it's just how I am. The OWs H did NOT want the details, all he wanted to know was had she met my WH IRL or planned to and when she said no, he was fine with it, just end it, he said.

Not me, I wanted all the details so i could process the whole thing, figure it out in my head. I wanted to know everything about her, who she was, where she lived, exactly, everything. I I found out. It came in handy when I explained to my WH and her that I had this information and would use it if they broke NC. She was scared, my WH knew I was serious and slowly he began to see the veils of the fantasy fall away and what kind of person she really was and he really was to have done that.

I need to add this tag line to my profile, because I say it all the time: Knowledge is Power.


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## Thor

I want the whole truth. I have accepted she will probably never tell me a believable full truth.

R without full honesty and transparency is doomed to fail.

If one has decided to D, moving on may be better if one stops obsessing about getting more facts about the A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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