# Am I mad or am I doing the right thing?



## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Hello.

I posted a thread up here a few months ago when I was in a crisis and got a lot of good advice. A few months on from my story, and I am very confused and low and I wanted to see if anyone could help me with making the right choices because I just do not know what to do. 

As a quick recap, I posted because my partner left me with no explanation and seemed to change personality overnight. He left me in a bad situation with my son because we had nowhere to go really. I didn’t know what was going on. I thought he was ill with stress or something but he denied it.

After he left us, he got increasingly sick and he was eventually hospitalised with a breakdown and is being treated for depression. He is getting better now but it looks like he will need a lot of time before he is healthy.

I contacted him when I heard he was out of hospital and we had a very long talk and he apologised for not recognising that he was ill and for his behavior. He seemed mortified. We are very friendly now, and this is escalating to visits, long talks, messages back and forth and while this makes me happy it also hurts because it's a bit like an up and down ride where you never know what to expect.

I was strong for a while, like running on adrenalin, but I feel really low and hopeless a lot of the time and it’s affected me a lot. I went to my parent’s house to try and get some support so I am far away from him right now and can’t see him often. I feel sometimes like I am getting close to being depressed myself. I feel like I don’t recognise the woman in the mirror anymore.

I know I am making progress with him and we have a good chance of working it al out. I am being supportive and he's doing what he can but emotionally it’s a completely one sided relationship. 

He’s too ill to give anything much back so I feel rejected sometimes over very minor things. I know his illness makes him unable to feel normal emotions or compassion for example but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t hurt.

Since he has been on the pills he gets hyper and a bit arrogant and mean sometimes. I hope those side effects wear off.

I know many of you may respond with comments supporting me in trying to mend this relationship and encouraging me to be patient and keep faith, and others of you will think I am mad to consider doing it after what he did to our family. 

I usually always know what to do, but this situation is making me feel so upset. It's very hard to have your partner in such a state that they almost don't seem to remember you and you don't know what is coming next.

I just feel like I don't want to walk away. I care too much that if there's even a slither of hope I just want to at least try. I usually follow my gut in life but have no idea in this case what is best.


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## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

I remember you. Glad to hear an update.

First off, the medications side effects may never go away. If he stays on the medication, this may be the new him. Are you willing to take him like that?

Second, it appears to me that you are waiting on him. Waiting for him to get better, waiting for him to recommit, etc. etc. Stop waiting. You need to fill yourself back up again. You are giving so much of yourself to this relationship that you have been run dry. You can still stay friends with him and support him and even date him, but get on with your life. Date other guys, go out with girl friends, start some hobbies, what ever. 

It is time to put you and your child first.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I remember you also. I am glad you came back with an update. I'm going to agree with JustHer. You have been more than generous on the waiting side of the relationship. 

When people give 1,000% and the partner gives 0.5%, it wears you out fast! You love that person, you want the best for him/her, but you are a person too. You still have needs/wants/desires. You deserve that. 

We live one time. That's it. We don't get a second chance at this. You and your child need to get out and have some fun! Spend time loving each other and being the best you can be every day. 

Your partner seems really ill right now. I totally understand how you want him to get better. It would be awesome to see him happy again right? Maybe that will happen, maybe it won't. Sometimes people stay that way forever. Even if he did get better, with his past depressive state, it could easily return. 

Continue to help him get better by talking and seeing him from time to time. Those talks probably do get him through the day sometimes. But you do need to get out and do things that make YOU happy.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Maybe you can follow some rational steps to see how far you can come with him.

1. Find a financial secure path for you and your child, one with him, one without him.

2. Give yourself some in the contact first, then only give more if he gives you some back. Learn him that he has to give in order to get back. Learn yourself you have to get back before you give again. This can be hard, especially if he is ill, but you have to save yourself from future misery by being strong on these issues.

3. Have a safe haven somewhere, you need time for yourself to heal, to relax, to have some joy in life. You need this private, not with him or your child.

my 0.02


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I would worry how chronic depression in a family member will affect your son.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Thank you for all not jumping on me to call me selfish. I feel a lot of guilt over this whole thing. I know you are supposed to be really strong in these situations but that would be easier if he’d not done such horrible stuff to me. I feel a lot of the time like I am waiting, as you say, and who knows what happens at the end of this. Do I get dumped again? Not that we are "together" now, but we are working towards that common goal eventually. 

My therapist is telling me that this is an illness, like a heart attack, and it affects his personality and emotions and not to take anything personally. I try and remember all this and stay positive, but I guess a heart attack is easier in some ways because it doesn’t make the person you love be mean to you, does it? 

The comments you have made are all the things I am worried about. What if this medication makes him like this permanently? (The doctor says it won’t but who knows) How will this affect my son? (I haven’t let my son anywhere near him in this state) 

See_Listen_Love – that was great advice and I will try and do that. 

It’s not that he says really abusive things, just stuff that is “off” or jokes that are not funny. I have wondered if he was bipolar, but I have to assume the docs know what they are doing. He is sometimes sexually inappropriate and has to apologise afterwards. 

The doc said all this is a reaction to the medication and it will settle in a few weeks. Yes, I know how long this could go on for. It will be months if not years before I have any hope of him being "normal" or being the person I loved.

I know I need to take all of your advice and find some way forward where I can detach myself a little in this period so I don't fall to bits. 

I don’t think I could date other people though. It's very frustrating because I have all these feelings and questions about what happened and how he feels and why he did not do things differently but I literally can't ask him and might need to wait months to do that. 

I just get so sad that life got changed so much and I am trying to keep positive but I get so low on some days.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

SaraJane, I think you might be trying to swallow the elephant whole! Take things in smaller pieces and give everyone a chance to digest it all. 

He is ill. If you are "too present" in his life right now, it can interfere with his recovery. He needs to get reestablished in his life and see himself as a capable, competent man again. Until he does, he cannot be a good partner. What *is* his diagnosis, by the way? I'm guessing depression, but because you have wondered about bipolar I recognize many illnesses have similar symptoms - most notably, chemical dependence issues. 

What I would recommend for you is to move on with your life and keep him at arm's length for now. Go ahead and talk, be friends, offer each other whatever support you can, but do it all WITHOUT any dating, commitment, or physical intimacy until he reaches a healthy place. That means wait until he has a job, is not making inappropriate comments often, and has shown that he will comply with his medical advice for at least six months. If you do not wait and require these three things, there's a much higher probably of going through the same kind of let-down you experienced before.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks Kathy. You're right. I need to be reminded that I am not going to get any kind of resolution or progress with a person who is ill. Keeping hoping for it is stupid. I had this idea that he would start medication and would just be ok again. 

Yes, the diagnosis was depression and as far as we now everything else is supposed to be medication side effects at this stage.

I know the right thing to do right now is to just offer friendly support because you are completely right about it giving me the highest probability for this being sorted out in a positive way. That is really, really right.

I am not sure how to actually follow through on that though. The dynamic between us is that he is affectionate, tells me what he is doing every day, calls or messages to make sure I get home safely if I go out and this intimacy is slowly building over time. I am afraid of saying or doing anything to put more distance between us?

I am going to see him in three weeks, and the emails I get now says "I can't wait to hold you and smell your hair" and stuff like this and although this sounds very weak, these messages are all I have from him in terms of affection.

I know it's not love. I know it might add to my frustration. I know also it might cause him to pull further from me.

I think the best thing is for me to tell him we need to just be friends until he feels a lot better, and tell him it's for his own sake. I know I have to be brave and do that for my own sake. I know all this. I will really try and pluck up the courage or maybe wait and have this talk face to face in three weeks.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

sarajane231 said:


> I think the best thing is for me to tell him we need to just be friends until he feels a lot better, and tell him it's for his own sake. I know I have to be brave and do that for my own sake. I know all this. I will really try and pluck up the courage or maybe wait and have this talk face to face in three weeks.


Very good. Sometimes spouses fall in the role of caretaker for the other, fysical or mental illness, depression etc.

Taking care of yourself is imperative, you can only help some one else if you have secured yourself first. A burnout is otherwise likely to happen. Maybe you are already in a burnout stage.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

I'm going to take a bit of a different view here and say things as how I understand things form his side.

Many years ago I went through severe depression that just as his did hit me hard all at once and to be honest it was as much of a long term life set back as having a heart attack or stroke is. 

After a major hit like this a person has to rebuild themselves from near zero again. For me I had to start out literally putting 100% of what I had emotionally left in me into just making it from one minute to the next without breaking down again and even then some days that was too much to ask.

Recovery wise I won't lie to you. It's as hard and difficult as having to relearn your whole life again and can take many years for the new person who you are building to take root and become a strong stable functional person again. 

When I went through my experience years ago it was like the person I was died but left the body behind and I had to build a whole new person from the inside out to fit it. The person I am today is not like the person I was before that experience and never will be.

Be there for him as you can handle it but always consider that for his life he is like a tree that just got ripped right out of the ground. It's going to take a lot of time for him to get some roots back in place and start to regrow before he will handle any storms and what does grow back will probably not look and act exactly like what he was before. 

On the positive side if you can a handle the experience and time involved in helping him rebuild and regrow his life you will likely be seein as a true friend for life. 
The few people who did that for me are now also the few people I trust unquestionably and would truly die for to help them.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> Yes, that is all part of it. Depression for me stemmed from the realisation that I lost what I thougth was, the very best thing that ever happened in my whole life and would never happen again.
> 
> Therefore, I hated myself, with such deep disgust and anger, that I did not want to live. Compassion was not part of what I felt, for myself.


That is exactly how I felt and it took years to get to where I could handle it. 
Yet even now some 20 years later on the odd deep dark bad nights those feelings of regret and hate still come back and haunt me as if it happened yesterday.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

I think that you both describe something more like what I had in my mind as what depression is.

His experience of it has been different. At the worst of it he blamed others, was angry, was suspicious, was agitated and he was drinking. I think it was almost impossible for him to accept he had depression because he saw himself as "strong". 

The reasons that he left me is because he said he needed to escape his life. I think there is also a big element that he somehow blamed me. The crying, the despair, the numbness etc all came much later for him and when they came he finally saw he needed medical help.

For now, he says he feels stable inside, but he says his brain feels like "mush". He can only think about what he is doing right at that moment. He can't think deeper about what he wants or what he feels about complex issues. 

I know he has a very long recovery, and I know he needs to rebuild himself. In the past few months he had identified quite a big range of factors which led up to this happening and he knows he needs to fix them through counselling. Funnily enough, in the end, none of them had anything to do with me. I am not sure why at the time he felt they did.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

I did see that your advice was right and talked to him last night. I am not sure the information fully goes in. I explained to him that he needed to rebuild himself and during that time we were best as just friends. He said that was okay but he wants to still talk as much as we can and still visit. He still wants some affection, cuddles etc. This seems okay for me. 

I think somewhere in the back of his mind he's aware that he's walked out on the things he loved the most, but at the same time he can't handle those things now and just wants to know that they won't be gone when he is better. It's selfish, but this is all about him right now.

I think he gets confused because before if he wasn't with me, he missed me so much, and he thought about me all day, and talking to me made him feel warm and fuzzy and he doesn't really understand why he doesn't feel that way right now. At the same time he wants to talk to me and he wants to see me but just not in the same way.

I don't think any of this is actually about me. When he's been talking lately, he seems stuck in the past. We were so close for so long and now all of a sudden he is coming out with information that paints a totally different picture. He had a very lonely and isolated childhood which he'd always painted before as being great. The ex wife, who he has always spoke highly of, is suddenly the object of a rage and hatred that has him so angry he is spitting at his mouth. He hates his boss and his job whereas before he always said he felt lucky. He seems to have been bottling all this up inside and it's all come to a head, but fortunately he says he doesn't have any negative feelings at all for me. He is only confused about why I no longer "make him happy".

All he said was that at the time his personality collapsed inside of itself and he saw me, for whatever reason, as another responsibility - instead of a rock he could lean on for support and he had to escape. He says he sees me differently now and he knows I would have been there for him and he wishes he'd managed it in a different way.

I am going to try my best to strike the balance between being there for him and accepting he's not "with" me now, or for a long time. I am aware it's a hard and lonely road for me to take - and that I may never get the person I knew back at the end of it. He is worth it though. I will have ups and downs, there are days where I feel I can't cope, but I am sure it will get easier as time goes on. You are all right and I need to find some way to put the past behind me and make a new life that is okay with or without him and just hope we can find each other at the end of this.

I do love him much more than I actually even realised myself before this happened. I didn't really have any comprehension of what I was capable of and I don't think he did either. I think he saw our partnership as one where I was weak, he was strong and his job was to always be there for me. Neither of us ever experienced it from the other side and that's been good for both of us. I did feel like I "needed" him, and now I don't.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> This is part of it. At some point, you just go so deep inside, searching for answers and questioning everything, and I do mean everything, down to the simplest things you learned as an infant, you can't even think about anything complex. It's part of the reason I never started my own thread. I could not handle the pain and I could not think in the terms used here. I understood very little. I couldn't put things into context. It was nearly impossible to think objectively. Reading threads was incredibly difficult. I looked up simple words I knew the definitions for, before my depression.


A lot of this seems to come very close to describing it for me. Thank you. One of the difficulties in communication is that because he doesn't have thoughts or feelings it's hard to feel close to him. We communicate mostly by me asking questions and him giving answers but he struggles with answers to basic things. The brain needs to heal I guess.

He did experience a combination of mental and physical overload. I will keep trying to think of it as a stroke or something physical because it is hard for me. I sometimes think "why can't he just snap out of this" and stupid thoughts like that.

I know he needs and appreciates my friendship right now.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

One thing you have all mentioned about "rebuilding from zero" is that honestly, until this happened, I thought this man was the most emotionally healthy person in the world. 

When we faced upsets, stresses or setbacks, he seems to let it just roll off his back. Where I would cry and need to talk about it - he was able to just skip over it.

It took me a long time working through all of this to really unravel that not expressing negative emotions isn't the same as not having them; and because he never expressed them, he stored them away.

I read a long time ago in the book "A Road Less Travelled" that we all make a map in childhood of how to navigate life. His map told him that the best way to deal with horrible things was to pretend they never happened.

I think he was papering the cracks on that and hiding it from me for a long time.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> He did experience a combination of mental and physical overload. I will keep trying to think of it as a stroke or something physical because it is hard for me. I sometimes think "why can't he just snap out of this" and stupid thoughts like that.
> 
> I know he needs and appreciates my friendship right now.


For me that was exactly how mine happened or was triggered. 

I was not able to handle my life as I thought I should and I overloaded to the point of a total mental and emotional burnout.

Our brains are no different that the rest of our body and they can literally be overloaded to the point that the neural connections and the chemicals that make them work just burn out and quit functioning. After that just like a badly torn muscle or broken bone it needs time to heal and depending on the injury that can take a lot of time to happen. 

Some days will be good but there will be other where things hurt terribly without any good explanation why just the same as how a having a injury does not hurt if you move one way but if moved another holy crap it can feel like you are being torn in half from the tiniest and simplest of movement you used to never think twice about. 

Now as for you I think if being there for him helps the both of you by all means do so and when you are there for him make it clear that you are there to help and watch out for him while her get his medications and life balanced out. 

Also both of you need to be very aware that for a person who has never needed any form of antidepressants or similar medications not all of them work for every person. 
It took three changes for me to get to the right one for me followed by a number of daily dosage adjustments after that. 

Because of that he needs to know that you are there to give an objective view and let him know when his actions or behavior are going to far one way or another and to let his doctor know exactly what happened when he had those events. 

For me it usually took about 2 months for a new medication to set in and start showing whether or not it was doing what it should to it's fullest effect. 

When you find one that works the way it is supposed to you should start seeing subtle positive gains in his ability to function and handle some levels of basic emotions within the first two to three weeks and he should keep getting better after that. 

After that its just support and time and patience and time and more time that is needed.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Thank you married.

Can I ask you a question if you don't mind, with you having experience of where he is at.

Do you believe that the actions of a person in this state are excusable? I ask because when he had this breakdown he left us essentially homeless, with not enough income to support myself and my son, I had to pull my son from his home and school that he loved and now I find myself staying with my parents and needing to find some way to start life again. It's hard, because he was the breadwinner and I now have nothing and have no idea what I am supposed to do.

I wan to know if his behavior is excusable on account of his mental state? I know it's a hard question to answer but it's also not an easy thing to forgive.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

Depending on the severity of his breakdown possibly yes but still when he gets better he needs to be kept aware of how it hurt and affected you. 

One of the biggest things I learned from my experience is how poorly society understands metal heath and what happens to a person when theirs goes wrong let alone the personal work involved once that person who has the problem starts working on fixing it. 

In many ways a severe breakdown is no different than having been a horrific disabling accident. Whether the person caused the accident themselves or it was done by someone else either way we as a society show general compassion and make adjustments to understand that the person is injured and has a limited physical capacity to do things. 

Emotional and mental injury however do not get the same treatment being no one can see a missing arm or leg or see a body cast or wheelchair even though inside the person could very well be that bad off in the beginning. 

Emotional and mentally I felt like I was missing my legs an arm and spent the better part of a year in a wheel chair before I could handle normal life again and even today 20 years later I still walk with an emotional limp. 

How you address him on the issue he caused is up to you. It was not fair to you but then again only you know whether he has the emotional and mental equivalent of a broken arm or leg or is he ins full body cast missing limbs and will be in a wheel chair for some extended period of time. 

If he is truly bad off give him the benefit of the doubt but don't let him milk it as a way out or an excuse once he gets better and can cope with life in a more normal fashion.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sarajane231 said:


> He still wants some affection, cuddles etc. This seems okay for me.
> 
> wants to know that they won't be gone when he is better. It's selfish, but this is all about him right now.


He tore you apart, LITERALLY abandoned you, and as soon as he is diagnosed with an illness, where are you? Right back by his side. No repercussions, no boundaries except your let's just be friends for now (but still see each other every day we can and hug and cuddle and kiss and whatever else)...and at the same time you say that YOU feel you are into or almost into depression yourself.

Do you see how insane this sounds? Two unhealthy people grappling for each other, with one being selfish and mean and having that just explained away with a wave of the hand (oh, it's just meds or depression; I'll ignore it when he's mean or hurts my feelings), and never experiencing a hardship for what he did to you.

I get depression. I do. Intimately. But you still know what you're doing. Choosing to abandon a woman and her CHILD isn't depression pushing you to do it (or whoever else he can blame it on, since as you say he likes to blame everyone else for everything). It's a choice. It's part of his character. Right along with being mean (oh, don't mind me while I call you a b*tch; it's just the meds talking).

If I were you, I'd step back, contact him no more than once a month, and spend this time with your therapist figuring out why you value yourself so low. Work on THAT. Learn to love and respect yourself so that, when he IS (if) healthy, and _chooses _to be rude or mean to you again, you can palm up and walk away and not put your son through that again.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

It's not that there are no repercussions Ternera..it's more that I can;t actually work out what they are until a) He is mentally sound enough to answer questions properly and b) He is mentally sound enough to be given whatever consequences there are to give.

Yes, I do know how insane it is. So I posted this asking if I was mad. Sometimes I wonder if I am mad.

I wish I knew what was right or wrong, but I really don't. I agree with you, that I can't imagine depression being an excuse, but then I hear from people who have been where he is and a lot of people don't think it's that odd that he ran out on us.

I know he knew what he was doing. I just don't think he really at that point of caring.

I really do hate him for what he did. Today is a nightmare, trying to sort stuff out and piece life together. Been crying half the day. Not because of him, just trying to put all the bits together to start a new life. Of course I hate him for that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Being there to help him pick up his pieces does nothing more than keep him from focusing on his own repair. Just like you seeing him keeps you from looking at your own stuff. You two don't need each other right now. Sorry for sounding harsh, I just see disaster written all over this. It's all going to be swept under the rug and the one getting the most damage will be your son for getting dragged along again.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

I think you need to do some more research on depression.

Most clinically depressed people are sad. Many are suicidal. Did he attempt suicide? I was severely depressed and didn't want to live because the pain was so severe. But I never once wanted to run away from my husband & children. I simply wanted to hide under the covers from life. I didn't "lose my mind" or try to hurt others. My Mother also suffered from severe depression eventually taking her own life. She also did not "leave" us.

My current husband also suffers from depression & never talks about leaving me. If he did, I wouldn't blame "depression talking" because from my experience depression is not an excuse for leaving & hurting loved ones.

Unless he is suffering from another mental illness that I am not as familiar with, I think there is more to this than depression.



Is he able to go to work?


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

That might be your experience Emerald, but honestly, a lot of people do leave. If you Google it the internet is full of stories like mine. I think it's down to a few factors. First being whether the depressed person at that time sees their partner as part of the problem, and second of all whether they feel a compulsion to be isolated. 

Yes, he works now, but he didn't for a while.

I also don't understand why some people don't leave and why he did. I also agree it's not an excuse, but find it hard to make judgements when I have not walked in his shoes.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I also don't understand why some people don't leave and why he did. I also agree it's not an excuse, but find it hard to make judgements when I have not walked in his shoes.


For me thats where I can sort of relate. I have walked in his shoes or at least had one of them on myself for some time. 

The person I was with at the time said she loved me and would be there for me no matter what I and I for her. Then my breakdown and depression hit and she was out the door faster than I could have ever imagined and blamed me on top of it for her problems and her leaving. 

I did not deserve that.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Wow, married tech, I am so sorry that happened. Some people definitely show their chops when the chips are down. I can't imagine ever abandoning someone at their lowest, I have to admit. Even if I felt like I didn't love them anymore. My sense of loyalty would compel me to stay and deal with it.

Your input into what it felt like really helps me. I need to see things from both sides.

As I said in my OP, I genuinely don't know what to do is. Someone mentioned faulty programming and it surely was there. Counselling right now will surely work that out for him and I might end up with the same guy back, albeit with the issues that caused him to behave so completely irrationally dealt with to prevent future occurrence. That is the tack he himself is taking. He sees he had faulty programming. In his mind, he didn't HAVE a choice. It was all he could think of. He had no reasoning power (not just because he was sick) but because he lacks the ability to deal with anything in life short of running away.

On the other hand...do I really want to spend my life with someone who did this to me? Literally ruined my life, hurt my child?

His story right now when I ask him how he left me is "I never left you. I just went away for a while. I came back, I never let go of you". Which is all very nice, but it doesn't change the fact he actually physically did leave, didn't he.

Today, I feel like killing him. This is the up and down nature of the process I am going through.

Deep down, I guess I feel that whether or not I walk out of his life or stick with him that he might have done too much damage for me to feel the same way.

I think I am just trying to give it due process. To explore every avenue before making that choice.

It is very difficult when for years someone is wonderful, gives you constant love, constant support, constant kindness and you feel just SO loved and treasured and close to that person and then they do ONE act that just ruins it all.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

No. You did NOT deserve that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sarajane231 said:


> His story right now when I ask him how he left me is "I never left you. I just went away for a while. I came back, I never let go of you".


Oh please. He sounds like my DD's friend's boyfriend who says that he only choked her because his BPD made him do it.

Nowhere is he looking at YOUR side, only about preventing any guilt from landing on him.


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## worried_well (Sep 16, 2013)

My wife has depression, but I think there are some things that makes it easier for me to handle:
- she never actually left, though she talked about it a lot
- she recognised it herself and began with therapies, medication,... at an early stage.
- she kept up with the most important responsibilities, towards our mentally handicapped child, even through the worst parts of it. This was really not easy work for anyone to do, and I think is the most important factor for me in accepting it.

Depression is a difficult disease to live with, either in yourself or in a partner, because it's so invisible. Basically you think all the time: If someone is lying down all day for months/years on end, are they depressed or just lazy? 

Honestly though, I have to ask myself if I would have done as well myself if I had been sick with it.

I'm not sure if any of this is of use to you, but maybe it is worth thinking about how you would have dealt with it, if it was the other way round.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've been in depression for more than 20 years. Some years better than others. I daydream a LOT about running away. But as long as I have obligations, I ignore them.

That said, I get it getting bad enough that I'd just bail.

What's at issue now, though, is whether it's good for either of you to be reaching out or just focusing on your own stuff. It's pretty close to codependency, if you can't stay away from each other.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

I remember you too and I'm so glad you posted an updated. 

I read through all of these threads and I have been very drawn to Married Tech's responses. From my point of view, they are dead on. 

I believe depression, whether it be severe or mild, affects people differently. It is not a one-size fits all situation. 

A few years ago I was in a relationship with a very wonderful man. Something inside me "snapped" and I just started feeling burned out, depressed, withdrawn, etc. I still got up Monday through Friday and took a shower, brushed my teeth, put on make up and went to work. I even laughed here and there. However, it seemed as if my depression was isolated to my personal life only. What my coworkers could not see is me going home, getting into my pajamas, comfort eating (and drinking), laying in bed, watching TV and completely withdrawing from life. I did this every single night and all weekend. I withdrew from family, friends and my boyfriend. I wanted to be alone with my depression. When I started running out of excuses to not see him or do something I started sabatoging my relationship with him hoping he'd dump me. He didn't so I wound up breaking up with him. I just had no energy to put into a relationship. But that didn't mean I didn't want to deep down and I knew that I needed to get help. I said and did a lot of nasty things to him that I wish I could take back. It took me a long time to finally get there and I had to hit bottom before I did. 

As I said, depression comes in all shapes and sizes. Only time will tell what shape and size your boyfriend's depression is. And as Married Tech point out, he needs to re-root himself. He needs to find a stable mix of medication and get himself healthy before he can help keep a relationship healthy. 

Keep this man at arms length. You can love him and care for him and hope for the best but also keep things in perspective. 

You sound like an extremely caring, loving and intelligent woman. I know you may have had moments of weakness but believe it or not, you are much stronger than you give yourself credit for. 

Although I do not envy your situation, I admire the path you are taking. 

**hugs**


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

> It's pretty close to codependency, if you can't stay away from each other.


I thought the same thing, but wrote differently. I guess I was concerned she might fall into depression, self-blame and self-pity. Or, something like that. Can't find the words. I hate that.

Anyway, I am concerned for her, as much as him. She is here, though. 

It would be very difficult to stay in his life, but be apart enough to keep from falling into the trap of depression. It frightens me for her.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

worried_well said:


> Honestly though, I have to ask myself if I would have done as well myself if I had been sick with it.



Thank you so much for writing this, and I am sorry you have lived through it. It is horrible.

I ask myself the above question a lot, and to be honest, I would have dealt with it more like your wife did. 

For him, he didn't know he was depressed until it led to an actual breakdown. He thought it was a "dip" or "stress" and it didn't occur to him that it was abnormal to be thinking about killing himself. He was just too lost in it and because he didn't talk to anyone and tried to basically hide it, he hit his own limit.

It would have been better if he had dealt with it like your wife, because I would have been given a clear opportunity to help him. He is giving it to me now though, but a shame it has to be on such strange terms where I feel so conflicted.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Turnera though, you are discounting he had a breakdown also. He was ignoring the depression, then he cracked when we hit considerable stress. The breakdown he had was depression with anxiety also. He was rocking back and forth, hives, IBS, chest pains, headaches. He thought he was going mad. I don't think this is the same experience as the one you had. It was quite intense for him, and he was hospitalised eventually with it. If he had an experience more like yours of course he would not have left. Remember he left during a crisis...he didn't just wake up one morning and go. He escaped what he perceived as the course of his pain.

I am not saying he did not have the ability to make a different choice, but I think the ability to make the choice was definitely at the minimum affected.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

sarajane231 said:


> Turnera though, you are discounting he had a breakdown also. He was ignoring the depression, then he cracked when we hit considerable stress. The breakdown he had was depression with anxiety also. He was rocking back and forth, hives, IBS, chest pains, headaches. He thought he was going mad. I don't think this is the same experience as the one you had. It was quite intense for him, and he was hospitalised eventually with it. If he had an experience more like yours of course he would not have left. Remember he left during a crisis...he didn't just wake up one morning and go. He escaped what he perceived as the course of his pain.
> 
> I am not saying he did not have the ability to make a different choice, but I think the ability to make the choice was definitely at the minimum affected.


:iagree:


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

IrishGirl...I really appreciated you sharing that story and for the support. 

I do think people experience it differently. He did not seem depressed at all until weeks after his breakdown. He seemed more angry. If he had been sleeping all day, looking down and doing all the stuff I stereotypically thought depressed people do - then I'd have noticed. 

Then again, some people hide well! He did the depression scale thing and came up with about 18 of the 20 symptoms listed. I asked him "how long did you have that feeling?" and he said 6 months or something. I felt really guilty that he felt like that and didn't tell me. 

He says he thought I was under enough stress and he needed to just keep being there for me. He definitely did not have bad intentions, he just had a very stupid idea of how to handle it all. This is what makes it hard to not help him. There is an element of guilt that I didn't help him before. Looking back there were a lot of signs.

How long was he not sleeping, or not hungry or just not smiling as much. I just thought it was all normal response to the stressy situation. I didn't get it.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

turnera said:


> What's at issue now, though, is whether it's good for either of you to be reaching out or just focusing on your own stuff. It's pretty close to codependency, if you can't stay away from each other.


This is the part I honestly don't know Turnera. 

On the one hand...if you love someone and they are the closest person in the world to you and they are ill..aren't you meant to get through it together? Even if it hurts a hell of a lot for a while?

On the other hand, the situation is not normal.

I am going to get booed by the crowd here, but I don't think there is anything codependent about being there for someone even if it might not be the best thing for you as an individual. Although I know this is the textbook definition but to me that's just loyalty.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Don't talk yourself into being a martyr, please. Just stop when you get perspective. Take the rest to your counselors. Please don't harm yourself because you love him. That's not love.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

sarajane231 said:


> Turnera though, you are discounting he had a breakdown also. He was ignoring the depression, then he cracked when we hit considerable stress. The breakdown he had was depression with anxiety also. He was rocking back and forth, hives, IBS, chest pains, headaches. He thought he was going mad. I don't think this is the same experience as the one you had. It was quite intense for him, and he was hospitalised eventually with it. If he had an experience more like yours of course he would not have left. Remember he left during a crisis...he didn't just wake up one morning and go. He escaped what he perceived as the course of his pain..


And I said that I don't blame him for breaking down, that I'm on the edge of it a lot, too. I then said that what's important NOW is the correct choice. And I stand by my feelings that interacting with him in any but the remotest capacity at this point is NOT helpful and could actually be harmful. I've seen way too many people start to do the hard work, only to be 'comforted' by another's presence and then decide they don't really need that hard work, after all. I mean, the person has taken you back, is still seeing you, cuddling with you, why bother?

Give him something to work toward. And give yourself time with your OWN counselor to figure out why you can even talk to him at this point.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Look, he KNOWS you care about him. You don't have to prove it to him. That should be enough to help him get through it. From a distance. Leave him alone and let him do the work he needs to do. You'll know when he has done it, because he'll be beside himself in grief at what he did to you. Right now, he's still blameshifting. He has a lot more work to do before he needs to be 'with' any other person.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I thought the same thing, but wrote differently. I guess I was concerned she might fall into depression, self-blame and self-pity. Or, something like that. Can't find the words. I hate that.
> 
> Anyway, I am concerned for her, as much as him. She is here, though.
> 
> It would be very difficult to stay in his life, but be apart enough to keep from falling into the trap of depression. It frightens me for her.


Thanks for that, and yes, I sometimes worry about falling into depression myself. We are parted by physical distance, and this protects me to some degree but it does suck you in. Sometimes I do feel like all that exists in this situation is him and he is so devoid of anything beautiful (love, kindness, compassion, hope) that it begins to rub on to me.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

You would have to have one hell of a support network. All things are possible. Some are so dangerous, I just don't know. Not a fear of your physical safety, so much, but your mental health. 

Man, this is a tough one. I think, since he is in counseling, you can at least be sure that you have a choice and he is in someone's care.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

turnera said:


> Look, he KNOWS you care about him. You don't have to prove it to him. That should be enough to help him get through it. From a distance. Leave him alone and let him do the work he needs to do. You'll know when he has done it, because he'll be beside himself in grief at what he did to you. Right now, he's still blameshifting. He has a lot more work to do before he needs to be 'with' any other person.


This is actually true. He needs lot of work before he can be with someone. I am actually aware of that. I thought in my head we might be talking at least 18 months. Although I know this is a wild guess.

He is still blameshifting. He's nowhere near ready to apologise or even acknowledge in full what he did. He acknowledges breaking up with me, but he cannot process the actual practicalities of what that did to his family. I can't tell him when I talk to him about the God awful day I had with my son crying to go home because on the one day I spoke to him and talked about anything like this - the next day he did not get out of bed, or get out of his pajamas and all he did was cry. I was worried, so won't ever talk to him about this stuff until he is 100% well again. He should feel guilty, but not now!

Funny, his son sent us (me and my son) a video message to tell us how much he missed us and his little face and voice were SO sad it made me cry instantly when I saw it. I said to my ex "he looked so sad" and he said "did he?" and didn't even care. 

Point being, he was a very, very sensitive and caring man and right now the illness and medication have him behaving heartlessly and also a part of it is that he literally needs to block it out to handle it.

I think he hates himself. He says he is just existing and nothing more. He hurt us a lot yes, but also himself. He has already said he just wished he had his family at home. What a bad nightmare for him to wake up in and realise he did it to himself.


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## worried_well (Sep 16, 2013)

I am going to get booed by the crowd here, but I don't think there is anything codependent about being there for someone even if it might not be the best thing for you as an individual. *Although I know this is the textbook definition but to me that's just loyalty.*

Personally, I agree with the bolded part, but:
- only as long as you can handle it yourself without breaking down.
- making sure to keep the pressure on your partner.

I think I am good at the second point, maybe too good at times.

If I compare my behaviour to other cases I know, then I can clearly see that I tend to let her away with a lot less, up to the point of being unfair in expecting stuff from her. 

On the other hand, I see how much better she is doing compared to others and I wonder how much of that is because she "has to" and how much is strength on her own side. In the end, you really don't know and can't measure the answer to this question.

But clearly, it's helping no-one if you break down too.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

turnera said:


> l. I've seen way too many people start to do the hard work, only to be 'comforted' by another's presence and then decide they don't really need that hard work, after all. I mean, the person has taken you back, is still seeing you, cuddling with you, why bother?
> 
> Give him something to work toward. And give yourself time with your OWN counselor to figure out why you can even talk to him at this point.


Great advice too. I am taking all this in!


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> You would have to have one hell of a support network. All things are possible. Some are so dangerous, I just don't know. Not a fear of your physical safety, so much, but your mental health.
> 
> Man, this is a tough one. I think, since he is in counseling, you can at least be sure that you have a choice and he is in someone's care.


Here is where I am lucky in a sense. He is so obsessed with being strong and handling things alone that he asks for nothing from me. He doesn't really want to talk about it, or complain about it. All he wants to do is talk about how our day went, what the kids are doing and his treatment. He minimises everything. On his really bad days he might say "I feel a bit blue" but this is as much as he gives. On bad days he wants to voice hat instead of video chat because he knows his face looks so bad. It's like all his features collapse and the light goes out in his eyes. He knows it hurts me to see him like that. In his own way he is still bottling it all up. 

The good side is also that he wants to get better. He recognises the problem, he follows all the docs orders and he goes to all the counselling appointments. I hope that is a good sign.

I think the only person who puts my mental health in danger is myself. Keeping expecting him to declare love or grief at what happened. I know it's crazy to expect it. I have to find that acceptance in myself and learn to be happy living with the situation we have now because it is real and I can't "love him" out of this. I think I keep expecting that to happen. Very naive, i know.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Actually, I don't think it's naive. I think it's emotions. Emotions are always the problem, where logic is required. We need both or we can't make good decisions. Neither, alone, is correct. 

The sign is, "He is trying." That's all for now. That is a good sign, but does not guarantee any outcome.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

I re-read all your answers and there's so many wise word here to give me encouragement and also to help me avoid the various traps and pitfalls I have to watch out for to keep my own well being. I am agreeing with so much and it gives me perspectives I hadn' t considered.

I think I understand a lot better what makes sense in my strange situation. 

_It's okay to be there for him, but I have to also look after myself and have healthy limits.

He knows I love him and I don't need to prove this or feel like I am responsible for his situation.

I have to remember he is ill, and he can't have any meaningful relationship with me again until he is well.

The path of his recovery is out of my hands now and nothing I can do can help him except being his friend and letting him know I have not given up on him

I have to focus on making my own life good again, because for now at least, I am alone.

When he is completely better, this is the time to deal with what happened between us.

He has to rebuild himself now, and I have to stop expecting anything and if I can do that, I will stop feeling rejected or sad._

Thank you...all of you. I am slowly getting a much better perspective than the one I had when I first posted here. I felt so confused and didn't know what to do or how to cope with it. I also have a bit of a better understanding of what my role should be now. 

I am not the supportive wife....I am his *ex* who is supporting him and who has left the door open for reconciliation. Also accepting now cannot be the time for that reconciliation. I can hope but not expect because things are uncertain.

I have to find the balance between constantly keeping faith and hope without letting myself obsess over this because I have a very long and unusual journey to take.

It's really hard. You don't know what is too little or too much and all of your emotions take over logic, like 2ntnuf said. I am always bad for emotions taking the place of logic :/

Thank you, really. I feel like I have confidence in what I need to do in principle and will try and work out the best ways to put this all into practical place in my life.


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## sarajane231 (Mar 12, 2013)

Next step...making my life better. Sigh. There's another hard part.

I have no motivation for anything because I am starting a new life that I never wanted. I ran away to my parents when I started feeling really low. I have to go back to "real" life soon. In a few weeks and it means starting anew with everything different.

It is daunting. I know once I make a start though I will feel a lot better to have us in our own home, with some security, our own belongings. 

Sorting this all out will be the task I set myself up for the week!


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