# Men, Emotions and Conflicts



## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

In the past years I began to notice some typical couple patterns, with one of them being how some men when facing conflicts with women tend to avoid conflicts by bring agreedable and apologizing even if they are not wrong. For example, I've seen a male friend doing so even if it meant him not being able to hang out with friends anymore, or do some activities of his own anymore.

It seems that some men were never too good at talking about emotions nor dealing with them (men are socially encouraged to not be emotional), so when facing conflicts and the situation gets emotional, they rather avoid it by being agreedable and apologizing.
This on the other hand leads to the other person getting worse and not really getting the chance to be confronted and realize that she is wrong. The woman in this case might also start to disrespect the man (being perceived as inferior).

What do guys think of this? If you notice a friend of yours of family who is in this kind of situation, what would you tell them? Have you ever see guys successfully dealt with this pattern?


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

lilith23 said:


> In the past years I began to notice some typical couple patterns, with one of them being how some men when facing conflicts with women tend to avoid conflicts by bring agreedable and apologizing even if they are not wrong. For example, I've seen a male friend doing so even if it meant him not being able to hang out with friends anymore, or do some activities of his own anymore.
> 
> It seems that some men were never too good at talking about emotions nor dealing with them (men are socially encouraged to not be emotional), so when facing conflicts and the situation gets emotional, they rather avoid it by being agreedable and apologizing.
> This on the other hand leads to the other person getting worse and not really getting the chance to be confronted and realize that she is wrong. The woman in this case might also start to disrespect the man (being perceived as inferior).
> ...


Notice how in these scenarios it's always the women who are confrontational and the men who are backing down and trying to be agreeable? Seems like women need to stop being such PitAs.


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

lilith23 said:


> In the past years I began to notice some typical couple patterns, with one of them being how some men when facing conflicts with women tend to avoid conflicts by bring agreedable and apologizing even if they are not wrong.


Well, feminists have been emasculating men for years now, is it any surprise they've cultivated a society of apologists, such as the one running the White House?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

In my case years ago, this was common. Not the apologizing issue but not being in conflict with my wife. I think many men tend to handle conflict like this with the women we love. While it may sooth over the current situation it can lead to deeper issues that lie underneath and fester. In our case it did. It was not a healthy way for me to handle discourse in our relationship. More and more issues were being put in that closet, resentment grew and we emotionally detached. The arguments we did have were hot flashes in nature that were really about some bull**** item. A wise person once told me, "If you find yourselves shrieking at each other over how the dishwasher was loaded, the problem is not the dishwasher. It's something much deeper."

One of the several core issues in our marriage we worked on in our R, was this item. For me to be more open with her. It's not always easy for me to do, and not always easy for her to hear. But we have a much healthier mechanism to deal with conflict then we did before.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

It's definitely a real phenomenon.

Part of it is that the only emotion men are able to show without being castigated as a weak beta loser is anger. Couple that with society's expectation that men should also at the same time be chivalrous and self-sacrificing toward women, and you end up with a guy that stuffs everything down until he eventually boils over. It's called being a "Nice Guy".


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lilith23 said:


> In the past years I began to notice some typical couple patterns, with one of them being how some men when facing conflicts with women tend to avoid conflicts by bring agreedable and apologizing even if they are not wrong. For example, I've seen a male friend doing so even if it meant him not being able to hang out with friends anymore, or do some activities of his own anymore.
> 
> It seems that some men were never too good at talking about emotions nor dealing with them (men are socially encouraged to not be emotional), so when facing conflicts and the situation gets emotional, they rather avoid it by being agreedable and apologizing.
> This on the other hand leads to the other person getting worse and not really getting the chance to be confronted and realize that she is wrong. The woman in this case might also start to disrespect the man (being perceived as inferior).
> ...


It's simply the nice guy pattern.

See, nice guys treat their wives like they walk on water, right?

Nice guys don't call their wives on their BS, right?

And nice guys get rewarded by nice wives, right?

As they say, "happy wife, happy life."


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Joey2k said:


> Notice how in these scenarios it's always the women who are confrontational and the men who are backing down and trying to be agreeable? Seems like women need to stop being such PitAs.


What is PitAs?



Fozzy said:


> It's definitely a real phenomenon.
> 
> Part of it is that the only emotion men are able to show without being castigated as a weak beta loser is anger. Couple that with society's expectation that men should also at the same time be chivalrous and self-sacrificing toward women, and you end up with a guy that stuffs everything down until he eventually boils over. It's called being a "Nice Guy".


Yeah, nowadays men are expected to not act emotional, however they are also expected to be good at emotional understanding and sensible. It feels like they have always been told to only ignore emotions and not cry since they are young, and then suddenly they are supposed to be good with emotions when they are in relationships.
If men can be at ease with emotions since they are young then they could be better at understanding it.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

marduk said:


> It's simply the nice guy pattern.
> 
> See, nice guys treat their wives like they walk on water, right?
> 
> ...


But can husbands really be happy with this setting? Being disrespected, seen as inferior.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

lilith23 said:


> But can husbands really be happy with this setting? Being disrespected, seen as inferior.


The whole point is that it can't. It's basically a passive-aggressive maneuver reinforced by neo-romanticism and the protestant work ethic.

But I digress. Many men are taught to be this way from birth. Such as myself. Unlearning it is... painful.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> In my case years ago, this was common. Not the apologizing issue but not being in conflict with my wife. I think many men tend to handle conflict like this with the women we love. While it may sooth over the current situation it can lead to deeper issues that lie underneath and fester. In our case it did. It was not a healthy way for me to handle discourse in our relationship. More and more issues were being put in that closet, resentment grew and we emotionally detached. The arguments we did have were hot flashes in nature that were really about some bull**** item. I wise person once told me, "If you find yourselves shrieking at each other over how the dishwasher was loaded, the problem is not the dishwasher. It's something much deeper."
> 
> One of the several core issues in our marriage we worked on in our R, was this item. For me to be more open with her. It's not always easy for me to do, and not always easy for her to hear. But we have a much healthier mechanism to deal with conflict then we did before.


Thank you for sharing.  Was your wife understanding of how you felt?

I feel that if more people are aware of this, perhaps women would also be more sensitive to this and try to be more understanding and avoid emotionally overwhelming during conflicts.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

@Amplexor I forgot to ask, what would you tell a man (a friend, family member) that is in this kind of pattern?


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## Joey2k (Oct 3, 2014)

lilith23 said:


> What is PitAs?


Pain in the a$$. Pointing out that, in my experience, most fights are started by and pressed by women.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

Joey2k said:


> Pain in the a$$. Pointing out that, in my experience, most fights are started by and pressed by women.


But what if that is because many of the men in this scenario are just avoidants and prefers to ignore issues rather than talking about them?

(although I don't agree with anyone starting fights, I mean staring a fight is very different from taking initiative to talk about an issue)


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

lilith23 said:


> @Amplexor I forgot to ask, what would you tell a man (a friend, family member) that is in this kind of pattern?


I'll let Amp speak for himself, but I'd recommend No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert Glover.

It does tend to be over-recommended on this site as a catch-all book, but for men that truly exhibit this behavior it's a great resource.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

My dad is 74 and has always been like what the OP described with my mom. I'm sure he is not the only 70+ man that acts this way. In fact, both my grandpas were like this too. "Happy Wife, Happy Life" is a pretty old adage. it's not anything new and to blame it on feminism is kind of ridiculous.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> My dad is 74 and has always been like what the OP described with my mom. I'm sure he is not the only 70+ man that acts this way. In fact, both my grandpas were like this too. "Happy Wife, Happy Life" is a pretty old adage. it's not anything new and to blame it on feminism is kind of ridiculous.


My dad is in his late 60's and is a posterboy for this behavior. Where do you think I learned it from?


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

I have a zero tolerance rule when it comes to disrespect. I will call ANYONE on disrespect immediately and assertively (usually in private as my intent is not to publicly shame). I'm not super-agressive, just confident that disrespect needs to be corrected, or its source dismissed. 

Ex. You are free to disrespect the guests in my home, you just won't be invited back until you make amends, and you are now leaving. (had to do this once when step-mom seriously insulted sister-in-law over child-rearing practices)


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

lilith23 said:


> Thank you for sharing.  Was your wife understanding of how you felt?


No, because I only let her in so far. She couldn't feel like she understood because I guarded my emotions so closely. My wife does not hold back in what she's thinking. Probably to a fault. Because she is this way and I was not, she felt I was locking her out. Because I was reluctant to introduce further conflict I avoided it by burying it. 

Eventually my wife fell into a long-term, long-distance EA. After D-Day, one of the things she said to me was "He calls me on my sh1t!" I underestimated how important that was in the relationship and because of that, and other issues she'd lost her respect for me.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

lilith23 said:


> @Amplexor I forgot to ask, what would you tell a man (a friend, family member) that is in this kind of pattern?


Jung advised the book NMMNG. I have read it and found points of light that have helped immensely in the dynamics of my marriage. I don't buy into the whole concept but a lot of it makes sense for us. 

One is that I need to be direct with her about my needs, wants, desires. If we disagree on something we discuss it. If the discussion begins to become heated, we have a signal between us that says "time out", and we come back to it a little later and work it through. Since our reconciliation we have only raised our voices to one another once. Because of that we have mutual respect and can address issues easier because there is a very low chance of things spiraling out of control. But it doesn't mean we *****-foot around issues either. 

So years ago, when I avoided conflict things were left unresolved. Now I call her on her ****, if warranted.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Why is this just a "man thing"?

Apologists piss me off, when folks say sorry so many times when they don't mean it, I won't trust what they say.

In fact it's come to the point I hate the word, it's rarely genuine. Reminds me of my ex, she was very passive aggressive in the past, suck up just to avoid confrontation, had to poke her to make her explode so we could actually get ANYWHERE to sort out issues - otherwise it's a sh-t ton of resentment and silent treatments that she reckoned was acceptable.

I always make sure daughter knows I can tell when she's not being straight with me, encourage her to use the word not to manipulate but for its original purpose; to actually express an apology.

Pffft!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Constable Odo said:


> Well, feminists have been emasculating men for years now, is it any surprise they've cultivated a society of apologists, such as the one running the White House?


And isn't this non-accountability a shifting of responsibility away from the person who really matters and looks back at us in the mirror?

Feminism didn't emasculate me. Any emasculation I suffered, was from my own doing.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

lilith23 said:


> It seems that some men were never too good at talking about emotions nor dealing with them (men are socially encouraged to not be emotional), so when facing conflicts and the situation gets emotional, they rather avoid it by being agreedable and apologizing.


In my case this happened in part because I assumed that women wield all the power in a relationship (they could get up and find a new partner in no time). And partly it was because I didn't want to be a retrograde domineering man of the patriarchal past.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Amplexor said:


> I have read it and found points of light that have helped immensely in the dynamics of my marriage. I don't buy into the whole concept but a lot of it makes sense for us.


The author seemed to want to write a book that would appeal to the widest possible audience. In some chapters you'll struggle to find yourself there, but he wanted to hook every psychological category.


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Why is this just a "man thing"?
> 
> Apologists piss me off, when folks say sorry so many times when they don't mean it, I won't trust what they say.
> 
> ...


Yeah, when someone says it without meaning it all the time, it can give you trust issues. Is the other person really sorry? Are you yourself really right? And then it might feel that the issue is solved but in the next time the same topic is brought up it seems that nothing was solved after all.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

lilith23 said:


> Yeah, when someone says it without meaning it all the time, it can give you trust issues. Is the other person really sorry? Are you yourself really right? And then it might feel that the issue is solved but in the next time the same topic is brought up it seems that nothing was solved after all.


Aye! Makes it incredibly frustrating!

Disagreement is inevitable, I don't know why folks seem to insist on procrastinating resolutions of issues through their insincerity turning it INTO conflicts!


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Much of this is social engineering where I was raised. "Happy wife happy life" essentially translates to let your wife be happy, get what she wants, and in turn she may trickle some happiness down to you.

So all my male friends I grew up with are in realtionships like this. They defer all family decision making to their wives. I was once the exact same way, and her happiness always came first. This further extends to when you become parents. The notion isn't that you be a good father, it's instead that you be a good husband first and so long as you make your wife happy then the kids will be well taken care of.....this is just insane even as I type it but it's how many men in the Midwest were and still are raised. Interesting to me I don't notice this quite so much where I live now.

Anyway it took me being cheated on and getting divorced to realize that when relationships are one sided they don't work. So I now stick up for myself, I make sure I am getting what I want and need. I would never be in a relationship again where I couldn't talk about what I want or need. Unfortunately took me 36 years to figure this stuff out but hard to outgrow how you were raised


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## lilith23 (Sep 6, 2012)

RandomDude said:


> Aye! Makes it incredibly frustrating!
> 
> Disagreement is inevitable, I don't know why folks seem to insist on procrastinating resolutions of issues through their insincerity turning it INTO conflicts!


Yeah it's frustrating indeed. For example, my husband can be agreedable coz he doesn't want us to be unhappy, so at times I'm not sure if he is being fully honest. Noticing this pattern in him (he's like this with everyone), I try to be careful with how I express my mind to not make him feel defensive nor accused, and I also try to talk in a way that can let him feel safe and encouraged to express himself.

Just today, I was trying to analyze something I did (he was not involved), thinking if I was wrong or not. I was saying that I needed to know in order to find closure. He spoke his mind on what he didn't agree with, and despite it being a hard truth it helped me to understand it.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> So all my male friends I grew up with are in realtionships like this. They defer all family decision making to their wives. I was once the exact same way, and her happiness always came first. This further extends to when you become parents. The notion isn't that you be a good father, it's instead that you be a good husband first and so long as you make your wife happy then the kids will be well taken care of.....this is just insane even as I type it but it's how many men in the Midwest were and still are raised. Interesting to me I don't notice this quite so much where I live now.



I see this where I am I should take a pole and ask them if they are transplants from the Midwest  

It's very obvious the families where this dynamic is in play and the poor boys are raised to strife their voices and say "yes mom" which becomes "yes wife" everything that kid has been taught is to please the woman. 

It's very difficult to know how to guide a young man these days. I was recently asked if my son was a domineering man trying to act like king of the castle? I said I suppose it's all how you look at it. His instinct is to protect his family who happen to be all women in his house. I choose not to squash that instinct I think it's normal. He has an opinion and I wish to hear it not shove my opinion down his throat while he says "yes mom" I don't want a man like that for myself and I don't want to raise a man like that. 

I realize thou as a woman that I was not raised with this role model. I don't expect a man to just accept everything I say or do everything to please me, That would drive me bat**** crazy. I want a partner with a voice and an opinion. I want my decisions to be challenged I want debate. I want to win the debate with the logic of my insightful wisdom but that's not the same as "yes dear".


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Some couples, some men, some women may be like that. Others fight like cats and dogs and both instigate confrontation. In other relationships, men have a big anger problem and are controlling and expect things to be the way they want them. And other couple are able to communicate effectively and work through problems.

I don't think apologist guys bending over for their wives are any kind of new thing or phenomenon that's taking over the world, lol.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

lilith23 said:


> It seems that some men were never too good at talking about emotions nor dealing with them (men are socially encouraged to not be emotional), so when facing conflicts and the situation gets emotional, they rather avoid it by being agreedable and apologizing.
> 
> ?


I had an interesting and enlightening conversation with my brother about this. My son was 11 when we had a tragic event in our family. I was encouraged by all my friends that my son needed to cry and get everything out, Not bottle it up. I became very worried about this as he was like a rock during this time. I was supposed to encourage my son to cry be emotional etc it's ok to show emotion. 

When I asked my brother about this he asked me if these friends were female. I said yes. He asked if they wanted my son to handle his emotions the way a female would and that would make him better? He asked me to describe what my son was "doing" rather than what he was "saying". When I did this I realized he grieved through his actions not his words. My brother told me that my son was handling his emotions just fine he was handling them as many men do and that's not wrong it's his nature. Emotional control did not equate to a lack of emotion. I understood then that emotional control was part of who my son was as man and I no longer encouraged him to abandon that part of him.


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## CTPlay (Apr 26, 2015)

Let me add the other side of the coin. I don't have problems with conflict. I would confront my STBXW and try to immediately identify and resolve issues. It did nothing for our relationship and only turned me into an aggressor in her eyes.

Communication isn't natural to everyone.


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Boys and men don't need to cry it out 99% of the time. Just as long they're not encouraged to think that emotions aren't a real problem to be dealt with alongside earning a living or fixing a leaking faucet. They are a nuisance for sure, but seldom can they be wished away by sheer will power.


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