# Coping with wife's affair...



## jtelep (May 22, 2012)

Hi everyone. I am currently dealing with my wife having an affair that she openly admits to however refuses to end because she says she needs the peace and quiet she gets with her lover. To make a very long story short, 2 1/2 years ago I left my wife for another woman. I thought I wanted to get a divorce and leave everything behind but as time went on I realized how stupid I was being and what I was really risking. It ended after about a total of 3 months. My wife was contacted about 4 months ago and she started having an affair with someone from her past. She ultimately began sleeping with him about a month ago and now refuses to end it justifying it with what I did in the past. I have been patient and tried to get her to see the fact that it's not real and that she is being used but she refuses to listen. She sees him about once a week and they talk all the time via IM so I can't see any of it. I know that part of this is my penance for what I've already done but the real question is how long am I supposed to let this go on for? She and I went through a lot when I did what I did and when we did ultimately reconcile it seemed like everything was OK however this isn't her first attempt at what seems like revenge.

We talked last night about what needs to be done to get this to go away and she kept justifying her position based on the fact that she needs peace and quiet that she can't get at home because of our 2 homeschooled Autistic children. She has become someone I do not recognize after 13 years. She is now mean to her children all the time, all she thinks about is sex and now she's on a mission to get her weight off and be sexy. Whereas before she used to be a self sacrificing martyr she is now self centered and self absorbed. She finally told me last night that I am lazy and won't do what it's going to take to save the marriage but refused to elude to what, in her mind, that might be. She has this idea that if I can't figure it out then I deserve whatever becomes of this.

I really need some advice on how to go about ending this affair because she is not at all interested in doing that and keeps telling me that if I just leave it alone that it will eventually "fizzle out".


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## LoveMouse (Apr 22, 2012)

File for divorce. What else is there? You screwed her, she's screwing U, huge game nobody needs/wants. Learn how to be a man and handle urself like one.

Mouse


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

jtelep said:


> I really need some advice on how to go about ending this affair because she is not at all interested in doing that


You can't end it. Only she can.

And she's told you she won't, so you can either tolerate an open marriage or file for divorce.

A perfect example of how revenge affairs accomplish nothing.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

The fact that you had an affair and *she freely chose to reconcile with you, DOES NOT give her a free 'get out of jail' card to have an affair of her own.* 

Take half of the money out of your joint bank account, cancel all credit cards, and everything that you are paying for and she's benefiting from.. As LoveMouse said, go file for divorce and seek physical custody of your kids. Tell her to leave the house and go live with the OM so that HE can take care of all her needs. If she no longer wants to act like your wife then the OM should be the one responsible for it.


Also start implementing a hard *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html#post306559* and *The 180 degree rules* to emotionally detach from her and move on with your life.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mori nailed it


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

I am a betrayed spouse. 

IMO, you can expect the affair to go on about as long as yours did. 

A revenge affair can accomplish something and that is showing the spouse how painful, humiliating, embarrassing, and degrading a betrayal is. 

It also causes massive paranoia on the part of the BS and that will likely continue for the rest of the marriage. 

If you want the marriage to work, still. IMO, I think you need to give it time to fizzle. 

If she comes back maybe you can work on the marriage now from an equal footing. 

Because my husband betrayed me and I was always loyal despite numerous opportunities, I feel as if I was put into a one down position. 

The spouse who has the affair is all full of themselves and have had their ego fed, while the BS feels like dog meat. 

She needs to have her ego stroked by this man. It's sad but that is what having an affair does to the BS.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Total disrespect in this marriage on both sides. You don't have a marriage right now with three. Your kids need both of you and your screwed up and she is. I get the pressure of special need kids, I raised one and still have him at age 29. But it is never an excuse for an A.

Get a set and lay down the law. You feel you have no moral authority because of what you did. But friend, two wrongs don;t make a right.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> Get a set and lay down the law. You feel you have no moral authority because of what you did. But friend, two wrongs don;t make a right.


Why should he expect his wife to forgive him, if he can't forgive her. 

Yes. Two wrongs don't make a right. 

Still a revenge affair will likely be the only thing in many cases that will enable the cheater to truly empathize with the BS.

I don't approve of revenge affairs. I have filed for divorce from my cheater. I don't want that stain to be on my divorce papers. Divorce papers are public record.

Still, he just can't seem to understand why I am so injured and suspicious.

I filed for divorce because he keeps telling me it's time for me to move past this. 

He doesn't want the divorce. 

Still, that last time we fought about the issue, he was still saying I should be past it by now, despite the affair and a false recovery in which I received a pix of him getting a lap dance at a bar. 

We did go to counseling and his says all the right things to the counselors and than does otherwise,


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Revenge affairs are like pouring black tar into an already polluted ocean.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Revenge affairs are like pouring black tar into an already polluted ocean.


I agree. Jellybean.

Still, on other forums I have talked to cheaters who have mentioned that a revenge affair made them more empathetic to their wives and less likely to cheat again because they now understand the pain and paranoia.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Why should he expect his wife to forgive him, if he can't forgive her.
> 
> Yes. Two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> ...


I think that statistically this is flawed. :scratchhead: How many revenge affairs actually create a sense of empathy? Now you have two WS's and no BS. To me I get the idea of a revenge A but it makes one lower themselves to the slime pit. I suspect in most cases those that engage in a revenge A have a significant higher D rate then those that don't and we are already looking at a high D rate when there is an A. (IMO and no statistics to back it up)


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

what snapped you outta your funk? You say it was the reality of what you were losing. Whatever brought that reality into focus was a gift. Time to give her the same gift. 

I assume because of your actions, you feel like a hypocrite asking her to stop her affair? Then don't. Ultimately you can't stop her anyway. Apologize for what you did, show genuine remorse and turn your back and start walking.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Revenge affairs are like pouring black tar into an already polluted ocean.


IMO, response affairs are perfectly justified. I was too messed up to engage in one. But, if I had had the capability, I may have.
The contract was already broken and the Bs needs to feel desirable again.
Plus, as Sara mentions, the WS got over big time on the BS. Time to level the playing field.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> IMO, response affairs are perfectly justified.



BUZZZZ!!!


Wrong answer, but thanks for playing. Your consolation prize is a home version of the infidelity game


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

You don't have to act high and mighty, just simply state to her something like this:

_"Look wife, I won't be in an open marriage with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between you and the OM and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with him because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with him and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> BUZZZZ!!!
> 
> 
> Wrong answer, but thanks for playing. Your consolation prize is a home version of the infidelity game


"I'll take cuckolded men for $400, Alex"


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## husbandfool (May 20, 2012)

Or the box that Jay is wheeling up!


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## jtelep (May 22, 2012)

I will admit that the revenge affair has definitely made me more empathetic to what I did to her. It has helped me realize on so many levels how I hurt her and the feelings that she experienced. I don't deny that this was a good thing in some sick twisted way however it's time for it to be over with now. She has made her point, she has talked to the guy, met him and now goes to his place at least once a week for fun. Now I am supposed to let it go on indefinitely until she sees his dark side and decides that he's not for her? I am told that I can't interfere, that I should just let it run it's course and fizzle out on it's own because if I don't then I am ultimately taking control of the situation and making their minds up for them that it's time to be done (in which case she doesn't learn her lesson she says - which means what? She might have to go out and do it again?!?)

I am getting to the point now where a few more times and she won't have anything to return to. When I did what I did there was no "let me have my time to figure out if I'd rather be with you or her honey". She did everything she could to sabotage what I was doing and she did a pretty good job of it too. But I remember that everytime she would start trying to see someone else or disappear for a weekend I missed her and was very jealous. I don't think that deep down inside I ever had any intention of divorcing her or leaving the family - I just wasn't thinking. When we ultimately reconciled 4 months later I was not only relieved but ecstatic that we had gotten through it. I realized that it was really her that I wished I had been doing that stuff with and not the other woman. Since then I have tried and tried to show her that but she would never let go of what happened. There would be days where she would be on me like a dog because of it and days that you would never know it happened. I guess I never expected this.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

The price of infidelity sucks.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

jtelep, you now realize that reconciliation does not mean forgiveness and vice versa. I forgave my ex-wife for her affair but chose not to reconcile with her. Your wife chose to reconcile with you but not to forgive you for betraying her and now has betrayed you.

Right now she has no incentive to end her affair because she knows that you are using it as a penance for yours and feel safe in continuing with it because she can guilt you for it. Sorry but you need to grow a pair and tell her that *she has lost the moral high ground she once enjoyed* and that you are now in the driver's seat to chose whether or not to stay married to her. If she scoffs then proceed with the suggestions all of us gave you earlier. Waiting her out is a fool's game.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Yes, he has the choice. But, I still feel she has the moral high ground. JMHO.

How deos one reconcile these two cliches:

Two rights etc vs Sauce for the goose etc?

Or, as long as I am at it 'Two many cooks vs many hands make light work?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> . But, I still feel she has the moral high ground. JMHO.


Nah. She lost it when she started fvcking someone else.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BL though I do not agree with you, I respect your opinion on the issue but in my book *IF you make the choice to reconcile after an affair, you give up any right to have an affair of your own, otherwise why reconcile?*


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Nah. She lost it when she started fvcking someone else.


:iagree:

Hi Jelly!. BTW, isn't the letter 'v' a wonderful replacement for the letter 'u'?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Hi, Mori! 

Yes yes, V was meant for U but you know how TAM likes to block out words like "****tail." ([email protected])


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## jtelep (May 22, 2012)

BigLiam how it is that you feel that she still has the moral high ground? Talking to him on the phone, even going out and meeting him in person but sleeping with him multiple times and then feeding me one lie after another about where she was or what she was doing? Staying at his place sleeping with him until 6 AM and then coming home and sleeping with me while I think she's out with one of her friends? Giving me all the gory details of her escapades with him while when she used to ask me I would refuse knowing that anything I say to her would hurt her. Telling me that because she's been with him now she realized what she's been missing out on all along and isn't so quick to give it up?

Moral high ground huh? I did everything I could to protect her from things that I knew would hurt her even when I was doing it including moving out so that she wasn't exposed to it on daily basis. She is defintely lashing out at me and trying to ensure she causes as much emotional hurt to me as she can. I am at the point right now where I don't even know if I could ever feel the same way about her again now that I see what she's capable of. She used to me a very loving caring mother and wife, now she seems to hate her kids and her husband and from what I understand it's all because she can't have what she truly wants which is to be with him all the time.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> BL though I do not agree with you, I respect your opinion on the issue but in my book *IF you make the choice to reconcile after an affair, you give up any right to have an affair of your own, otherwise why reconcile?*


I agree with your analysis, provided the terms of the new agreement precluded her cheating and there was adequate consideration for the K.
But, we do not know that. And, there is the real question as to whether a betrayed spouse, in the traumatized, depleted state one finds onself in post discovery, is competent to form a new contract.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BL,

FYI. My wife desperately tried to prevent me from leaving her after I found out about her year long PA, so much so that she offered to allow me to have a NSA PA of my own. I declined her offer and chose instead to divorce her. The divorce actually devastated her more than if I had gone out and had a PA of my own - not speculation on my part but from talks she had with a woman mutual friend of ours. So I guess I'm a poster boy for the old saying 'the best revenge is to live well'.


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

morituri said:


> BL though I do not agree with you, I respect your opinion on the issue but in my book *IF you make the choice to reconcile after an affair, you give up any right to have an affair of your own, otherwise why reconcile?*


Got to agree with that. She could have even said she'd reconcile with an agreement that she had a hall pass, but she didn't.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

For the record, I did not have a RA. But, there is a sense of justice about a WS getting a taste and i think an RA is nowhere near as bad as the intial A both becuase it is deserved and because the BS is, often, non compus mentis.(I probably spelled that wrong. Father keating would get out the ruler).


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

jtelep said:


> I will admit that the revenge affair has definitely made me more empathetic to what I did to her. It has helped me realize on so many levels how I hurt her and the feelings that she experienced. I don't deny that this was a good thing in some sick twisted way however it's time for it to be over with now. She has made her point, she has talked to the guy, met him and now goes to his place at least once a week for fun. Now I am supposed to let it go on indefinitely until she sees his dark side and decides that he's not for her? I am told that I can't interfere, that I should just let it run it's course and fizzle out on it's own because if I don't then I am ultimately taking control of the situation and making their minds up for them that it's time to be done (in which case she doesn't learn her lesson she says - which means what? She might have to go out and do it again?!?)
> 
> I am getting to the point now where a few more times and she won't have anything to return to. When I did what I did there was no "let me have my time to figure out if I'd rather be with you or her honey". She did everything she could to sabotage what I was doing and she did a pretty good job of it too. But I remember that everytime she would start trying to see someone else or disappear for a weekend I missed her and was very jealous. I don't think that deep down inside I ever had any intention of divorcing her or leaving the family - I just wasn't thinking. When we ultimately reconciled 4 months later I was not only relieved but ecstatic that we had gotten through it. I realized that it was really her that I wished I had been doing that stuff with and not the other woman. Since then I have tried and tried to show her that but she would never let go of what happened. There would be days where she would be on me like a dog because of it and days that you would never know it happened. I guess I never expected this.


Thank you for being so honest in your assessment of how the revenge affair did help you to emphathize with her. 

I also like the part where you said the things you did with the OW were things you really wanted to do with her. 

I do agree that it is time for it to end on her part. 

She got her revenge and made her point to show you how she felt and to prove to you that she too can find someone else to play with and she has leveled the playing field. 

Still, if your marriage is to work, she needs to end it. 

Talk to her. Drag her to a counselor for one session so the counselor can tell her it is wrong to continue after making her point.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Yes, he has the choice. But, I still feel she has the moral high ground. JMHO.
> 
> How deos one reconcile these two cliches:
> 
> ...


Yep. I agree. If she did not first break the marriage vows. She still holds the moral high ground. 

The person who has the affair first changed the rules of the marriage. 

That's the price they pay for cheating. 

My cheater husband keeps telling me to get over it. It's been six months. He said he can't wait two years for me to heal because he's afraid I might decide to leave him, anyway.

Well, I decided I can't wait two years to see if he will cheat again. 

He doesn't want to take a leap of faith to wait for me to heal, but I am supposed to take a leap of faith with a known cheater who hid bank accounts, credit cards, burner phones, took advantage of the freedoms I gave him with men's trips and boy's night out, and spent our money on the OW.

Give me a break. I am a human not a Saint


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

That's why I try to avoid these RA threads, they make my hurt. I clicked on the title not knowing this was an RA. 

An RA is still wrong, no matter how you slice it, but I can certainly understand the motivation. Doing an RA probably crosses the mind of many BSs at one time or another. It may be hard for some to resist the temptation to fall to the dark side.


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## jtelep (May 22, 2012)

I don't know. I just don't know. There is nothing worse than sitting at home at night knowing she is out getting it on with some other guy while she tells me that she just has to figure it out for herself and I have to give it time. It isn't like I can do anything to take my mind off it. While she's out I am at home watching the kids sleep. Then she'll walk in around 6 AM acting like nothing happened, go to sleep and stay in bed until noon. How long would any of you let this go on for even if you were trying to do the right thing, letting her have a taste of the RA, before saying enough is enough. I mean really, she tells me that if I let it run it's course she'll get a chance to see his dark side which will help her get a clearer picture of what he is really like. I guess I just don't understand that rational. It's almost like she's saying, "I need to find out for myself if he's better than you or not and then I'll let you know what my final decision is. Until then you be a good boy, watch the kids and treat me like a queen when I am home so I know that you're really interested in trying to make the marriage work".


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

is OM married or single?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

jtelep;765822 She is defintely lashing out at me and trying to ensure she causes as much emotional hurt to me as she can. I am at the point right now where I don't even know if I could ever feel the same way about her again now that I see what she's capable of. She used to me a very loving caring mother and wife said:


> Ummmm! Yes. She is definitely lashing out. And as Liam mentioned, since you cheated first she is operating from a traumatized position and could be said to not be thinking straight.
> 
> Betrayed spouses do get situational PTSD. It's serious, it's not a joke.
> 
> ...


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## jtelep (May 22, 2012)

OM is single. Never been married and no kids. I would just love to see how well they got along after a weekend together with my children. One temper tantrum after another - I am sure she would see this loser in a completely different light than she does now.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

What you did was wrong. At least you left and began ending the relationship.

She is actually worse here because she has opened you marriage and is not leaving.

You are now living in an open marriage.

You have three choices:

1. Embrace it, and go find a new woman to fill your emotional and sex needs as your WW no longer is useful for that.
2. Live life as a cuckold.
3. For for D and refuse to accept living as either 1 or 2

You can't stop her affair, but you don't have to just accept it either
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Oh, either way, also refuse to watch the kidsr pay for a sitter so she can be with him.

If she goes to him, pack the kids in the car , park infront of his place while she is there.

You are looking to shame her, which she deserves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ShootMePlz! (Oct 5, 2008)

Sitting back while she continues to screw her brains out with the OM will not work!!! Right now everything is perfect for her and she will not stop. She has you at home taking care of the kids and the OM for sex/fun....why would she stop while she knows you won't do anything to stop her?

File and separate forcing her to deal more with the kids, finances etc. Its your only chance.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Good god.

Who the fvck cares about who owns the moral highground?, its not the fvcking point. Put away the scorecards.

The action is wrong, what is happening is horribly destructive to you, to her, and to everyone within blast range of this dysfunction bomb.

for fvcks sake, its not about her being wrong and you being right, or you being culpable and her being justified...

THE ACTION IS WRONG. The action of infidelity is wrong. You are making a stand against that. It's not you vs her. It's a husband taking a stand against an action. An action that will hurt everyone, an action which is fundamentally destructive. 

It must be stopped. Be the hero, walk away.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Good god.
> 
> Who the fvck cares about who owns the moral highground?, its not the fvcking point. Put away the scorecards.
> 
> ...


Of course it's wrong. 

Still as Liam pointed out, the BS is in a traumatized state and that needs to be taken into account by this former cheating husband, if he truly wants to save his marriage.

Walking away is the easy way out in his case, since he traumatized his BS. 

He needs to find a way to help her heal. 

Get her to a good counselor for one wake up session.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Sara8 said:


> Still as Liam pointed out, the BS is in a traumatized state and that needs to be taken into account by this former cheating husband, if he truly wants to save his marriage.


No, I respectfully disagree. Nothing needs to be taken into account. 

Considerations and rationalizations only serve to sap the strength of resolve needed to endure a trial like this. 

If he truly wants to save her and his marriage, he has to have the strength to walk away from it.



Sara8 said:


> Walking away is the easy way out in his case, since he traumatized his BS.
> 
> He needs to find a way to help her heal.
> 
> Get her to a good counselor for one wake up session.


That's the key, the way to heal her is to motivate her to want to heal herself. 

A couselor is not waking her up. She is not going to be guilted or cohersed into waking up. His actions gave her all the justification she will need to continue doing this, she is addicted now. Too late, Too deep, her conscience is not pulling her out of this and no speech from him or an counselor is going to snap her out of this. She has to do it, by her own choice. The only way that will happen is consequences, the consequence of losing her husband forever. No bluffing, no speeches and no ultimatums. 

Want to fix this?, there is one way.... Don't try. Walk away. Then and only then will she have to make a choice, for herself, by herself. This must be put to the test and the only way he is going to do that is to tell her he loves her and how sorry he is for what has happened and walk away. 

_it's only on the brink that people find the will to change. Only at the precipice do we evolve_

It won't be the end of the marriage / relationship, with enough strength it will be the beginning of a new relationship. I believe that sometimes you can get so far fvcked and so deep into crisis that you have to be willing to lose something forever in order to save it.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

It just seems perfectly just to me, that a cheater taste the same.If I had cheated, i think i would have no reasonable expectation that i could bind my spouse to rules that I have already demonstrated I do not consider binding to me. The whole concept : I get to partake, you get to refrain(because, after all, you get to have wonderful me, while I had to settle for all the deprivation associated with having only little old you.) is an affront.
See, to me, a cheater is , by definition, a narcissist. He or she feels entitled to more than the rest of the mere peasantry.
I think the cheater needs to be brought down a peg, so as to make him or her a more tolerable person.
I am sure it is just me. But, I have never allowed someone to abuse me and go unscathed(unless there was a sincere apology).

If you intentionnally elbowed me in a game, at some point, you were getting undercut.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

OP has stated that a few more of her encounters with the OM and he won't care about R, and wouldn't it be ironic if by that time she starts coming out of the fog and pleads with him for another chance? Just like she was under no obligation to R with him, he is under no obligation R with her and more so since the last R after his affair was a false one.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> It just seems perfectly just to me, that a cheater taste the same.If I had cheated, i think i would have no reasonable expectation that i could bind my spouse to rules that I have already demonstrated I do not consider binding to me. The whole concept : I get to partake, you get to refrain(because, after all, you get to have wonderful me, while I had to settle for all the deprivation associated with having only little old you.) is an affront.
> See, to me, a cheater is , by definition, a narcissist. He or she feels entitled to more than the rest of the mere peasantry.
> I think the cheater needs to be brought down a peg, so as to make him or her a more tolerable person.
> I am sure it is just me. But, I have never allowed someone to abuse me and go unscathed(unless there was a sincere apology).
> ...


Then why didn't you try to reconcile with your wife, under false pretenses, so you could then turn around and have an RA of your own?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

His wife, probably, would have been better off,felt better about herself, if she had walked away, like you did , Mori and I did.

But, the folks who feel what she did was , somehow , worse than what he did( I think shaggy posted this) cannot be considering the fact that a RA is, many times done out of pain and an altered state of conciousness.
And, the cheater who is then cheated on is not taken by surprise, as this type of response should be anticipated.
Nor does the first cheater question his worth as much, as he or she can look to their own cheating vs some innate deficiency as the cause of the RA.
In summary, the RA seems less egregious, maybe even justified, as there are myriad mitigating factors for a BS responding like this.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> Then why didn't you try to reconcile with your wife, under false pretenses, so you could then turn around and have an RA of your own?


She is smart enough to know that I would not just let it slide.

Plus, my GF is an upgrade.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

jtelep said:


> I don't know. I just don't know. There is nothing worse than sitting at home at night knowing she is out getting it on with some other guy while she tells me that she just has to figure it out for herself and I have to give it time.


She is not trying to figure anything out, she is having fun screwing another guy and getting back at you for your A. She is being vindictive. She knows how painful betrayal is and yet she rubs it in your face. She has no respect for you.

You are enabling her affair and this could go on for YEARS if you let it.



> How long would any of you let this go on for even if you were trying to do the right thing, letting her have a taste of the RA, before saying enough is enough.


About as long as it takes to say "GTFO of my house!".



> I mean really, she tells me that if I let it run it's course she'll get a chance to see his dark side which will help her get a clearer picture of what he is really like.


WRONG!

Affairs thrive in these situations because they are not real relationships. I know one woman who has been with her married other man off and on for 6 years now. His wife knows about it and he moves in with her about 9 or so times a year (they breakup about every 6 weeks).
True eff'n story.



> I guess I just don't understand that rational. It's almost like she's saying, "I need to find out for myself if he's better than you or not and then I'll let you know what my final decision is. Until then you be a good boy, watch the kids and treat me like a queen when I am home so I know that you're really interested in trying to make the marriage work".


This is what you need to understand: SHE IS NOT RATIONAL.

You can't use logic or reason with her, she runs on pure emotion and is acting narcissistic. She only cares about how she feels and her wants and you are just in the way (other than as backup/meal ticket). Your passive behavior is allowing this to continue and she is lying right to your face about her motives.

Stop making excuses for her and blaming yourself, what she is doing is wrong and its costing you your dignity.

You need to put you foot down and stop this NOW.

File for a divorce and move toward it like a freight train. If anything will end her affair is you trying to end the marriage. Only about half of people that file actually get a divorce so don't let that bother you (don't tell her that, she needs to be afraid of losing you forever). She disrespects you because you let her and that just breeds more disrespect. Its time to end that and the sooner the better. 

OR

Ask her if its ok if you go have an A yourself while you wait on her. Might as well do something with your time...


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Ouch.. *gets out the popcorn*
I just want to see if I got this straight. You have affairs, which you kept secret to I assume “protect her”. After being discovered, you withheld facts again “to protect her and spare her feelings”. So, she had to fill in the blanks.

So, you are discovering she didn’t reconcile at all or forgive. Wonder why? Sounds like you were the posterboy for reconciliation material... Well, take some small victory in at least knowing what is going on. That’s tons better than wondering around feeling something is off and not being able to get truthful answers.... I’m betting she’s even trying to recreate her mind movies (those blanks she had to fill in for you) to torment you. 

Time to move on. You deeply damaged her, she’s now doing it to you. You haven’t learned the lesson yet. There are boundaries in a marriage; You create them and enforce them for yourself. You need to be strong. I doubt you are having ‘fun’. Isn’t one of your boundaries fidelity? Why aren’t you enforcing it beyond yourself? She’s stomped all over them and you are... what exactly? Begging and pleading? As you are sorely finding out, the only real power you have in any relationship is the power to end it. Just finally put this marriage out of its misery.... it does not have to continue for either of you.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I agree. You should divorce. You have no standing to insist on any boundaries.It would be hypocritical.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Just to clarify my stance, he had an exit affair which is a different animal to what she is doing. He thought the marriage was over so figured he had nothing to lose and headed for a D. She is juggling 2 relationships at once and expects him just to put up with it with no intention of leaving. They are both bad and wrong but to me the motives are what’s important.

My W had an exit A, she moved out as soon as she realized what she was doing and had no intentional of coming back. This is the only reason I entertained an R with her. Had she been sleeping with other guys behind my back for fun I would have D her just out of principle.

She is trying to make 2 wrongs a right. It does seem that he may have rug swept his A and she resents him so much she want to torture him and hell, he may deserve it since we only hear his side of the story. I’m just giving him the benefit of the doubt. In my mind you never put up with blatant cheating no matter what the circumstances.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You left your wife for the OW. You're wife on the other hand is cuckolding you.


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

You ****ed up your life, she fuc*ked her life both of you thrown your marriage and children in the trash bin so both are not marriage materials.

Then about the present situation if you still want to R, then put your balls back in the sack, talk to her like a real man, then what to talk " we both fuc*ked up our life and marriage in the best way possible, enough is enough, i wish to salvage this marriage, do you want to salvage this marriage? i will give you 24 hrs time to decide"

After 24 hrs ask her what is her decision if she says Ok we can try a shot, then ask her to type the NC letter then and there, if she says she dont want this ****ty marriage or ask for more time or not ready to throw her OM under the bus, then tell her to fuc*k off from your life, see a lawyer and hand over the D papers on next day.

Do this only if you have any self respect or self worth left with you, else continue in the present limbo and pray to god for OM to get tired off her soon.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No, I respectfully disagree. Nothing needs to be taken into account.
> 
> Considerations and rationalizations only serve to sap the strength of resolve needed to endure a trial like this.
> 
> ...


Hey Pit:

excellent rebuttal and all good points.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> It just seems perfectly just to me, that a cheater taste the same.If I had cheated, i think i would have no reasonable expectation that i could bind my spouse to rules that I have already demonstrated I do not consider binding to me. The whole concept : I get to partake, you get to refrain(because, after all, you get to have wonderful me, while I had to settle for all the deprivation associated with having only little old you.) is an affront.
> See, to me, a cheater is , by definition, a narcissist. He or she feels entitled to more than the rest of the mere peasantry.
> I think the cheater needs to be brought down a peg, so as to make him or her a more tolerable person.
> I am sure it is just me. But, I have never allowed someone to abuse me and go unscathed(unless there was a sincere apology).
> ...


Hi Liam:

Even though, like you, I chose to not have a revenge affair.

Still, I really resonate with what your saying hear.

I am not sure a short lived revenge tryst is so wrong. 

I read that one reason a person may have an affair is that they are selfish as well as passive aggressive and the affair is way to show the spouse that they can find someone to replace them. 

Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and I am sure replacing a spouse can go both ways unless one spouse is a beast, which is not the case in most affairs. 

In most affairs based on my research the affair partner is not as attractive as the spouse looks wise, morality wise and on almost every other level.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> His wife, probably, would have been better off,felt better about herself, if she had walked away, like you did , Mori and I did.
> 
> But, the folks who feel what she did was , somehow , worse than what he did( I think shaggy posted this) cannot be considering the fact that a RA is, many times done out of pain and an altered state of conciousness.
> And, the cheater who is then cheated on is not taken by surprise, as this type of response should be anticipated.
> ...


Well said. 

This is why I chose not to have a revenge affair although my self esteem needed the ego boost I would have gotten from the attention the affair partner would have given me. 

I chose not to do it, because it would not have the same impact because there was a reason my cheater husband could fathom. 

With me, I was blind sided, and totally confused by his behavior because he never complained about any problems with me or our marriage. It was the opposite. He would brag about me and how I was a low maintenance wife and he would never find a better wife.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You left your wife for the OW. You're wife on the other hand is cuckolding you.


Good for her. This guy deserves it. He broke the rules of engagement. She did not. 

I agree they should divorce. Once he found out about the affair she should have ended it to work on the marriage. She taught him his lesson and taught him empathy.

Continuing it is wrong, though. 

Still, this guy asked to be cuckolded and he deserves it. 

I smell a double standard here. 

When I discovered my husband's cheating the first asinine thing he said to me was that other men did it and their wives forgave them. 

There needs to be consequences. 

Also, when the MC asked my cheater husband how he would feel if I had an affair, he practically jumped out of his chair and yelled I would not stand for it. :scratchhead::bsflag::wtf::slap::rules:


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Good for her. This guy deserves it. He broke the rules of engagement. She did not.
> 
> I agree they should divorce. Once he found out about the affair she should have ended it to work on the marriage. She taught him his lesson and taught him empathy.
> 
> ...


Sara8, my ex-wife was a jealous woman who would freak out if she saw another woman talking with me about the most business like matters you can imagine. She often told me she would divorce me if she found out I was cheating on her. Well lo and behold guess who turned out to be the cheater of the two?

According to a woman who is a mutual friend of ours, my filing and finalizing the divorce was more devastating to my ex-wife than if I had taken her offer to have a PA of my own - my ex-wife's words not mine. Granted that revenge was the last thing on my mind when I chose to end my marriage - my emotional healing was the reason for it - but it ended having the same effect as though I had planned for retribution. So the old saying "The best revenge is to live well" was very true in my case, perhaps it will be for you as well.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You left your wife for the OW. You're wife on the other hand is cuckolding you.


Yes, and she is perfectly justified in doing so. Sauce for the goose...
If this guy did not start this rock moving down the hill, this never would have happened. Now, he has to live with the consequences of what he set in motion.
He should divorce. You play, you pay.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Yes, and she is perfectly justified in doing so. Sauce for the goose...
> If this guy did not start this rock moving down the hill, this never would have happened. Now, he has to live with the consequences of what he set in motion.
> He should divorce. You play, you pay.


no she was perfectly justified in leaving him


her motivations are understandable but her decision to act like this is not morally just in any way shape or form

you seem like an eye for an eye sort

you must think we should cut off the hands of thieves and such


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> If this guy did not start this rock moving down the hill, this never would have happened.


What rock did you and I start "moving down the hill" that made us deserving of our wives cheating on us?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Well said.
> 
> This is why I chose not to have a revenge affair although my self esteem needed the ego boost I would have gotten from the attention the affair partner would have given me.
> 
> ...


Exactly. This whole notion that a RA is somehow worse, or that an exit affair on an unsuspecting spouse is not as bad as cukolding a man who started the whole process , makes no sense to me.
The cheater destroyed the marriage, voided the contract and the BS was blindsided.
How is that not worse than a cheater simply reaping what he has sown, with the full knowledge that the RA is a response to the initial cheating, not an indictment of his fitness as a spouse?

There is a reason folks like Mori's wife offer a RA as compensation. Thye know , on some level, that it is fair and deserved.
Now, that does not mean a BS should, neccessarily, take them up on the offer, as compromising one's principals is not good.
Here's a little method I though might be apropriate in determining the valle of restitution owed to a BS.
Quantify the number of sexual encounters and multiply it by the going rate for a hooker in your locale. Then , throw in the cost of the affair: counseling for the BS, $$ spent on the affair by the WS, cost of babysitting done by the BS to subsidize the affair.
Then throw in the cost of periodic polygraphs, STD testing now and in the future. Come up with a dollar figure.
Then, the WS commit to losing approxiamtely 30% of his or her body weight in 2 months(like I did((and I was fit to begin with)). agrees togetting only 3-4 hours sleep a night for at least a year.
With the $$ amount of restitution calculated(and you can throw in other attendent costs)m the WS gets a second job and pays off the debt. No using normal family funds for this, it comes from the second job so none of the family suffers finanacially.
Then, the non cheating memebers of the family get to use the money as they see fit.Probably not using hookers, but something moral, like buying Harleys or taking vacations without the WS.
After that, maybe the playing fioeld is leveled.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

He does not deserve to be cheated on.

Neither did she.

She took him back after her left. She chose R as did he. She didnt have to but she chose to R. She is now reneging on R by choosing to her own affair.

The marriage needs to end because they have a truly false R.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> no she was perfectly justified in leaving him
> 
> 
> her motivations are understandable but her decision to act like this is not morally just in any way shape or form
> ...


Actually, I am pretty merciful. On the hnds deal, though , if someone messed with my kids etc I would have no hesitation.
I am not big on retribution, in general, if there is a sincere apology and ownership. I have always let things go if one apologizes.
But, this cheating deal changes BSs. It traumatizes them and makes them feel deficient. Feeling desirable by way of a RA is very understandable and justified IMO.
I thin other moral forms of restituion, like I suggest above, are preferable.
But, the bottom line is that very few cheaters ever make restituion. Thye, for the most part, walk away and leave a trail of destruction in their wake.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> What rock did you and I start "moving down the hill" that made us deserving of our wives cheating on us?




None , that I can think of.(Unless you cheated on her).


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> He does not deserve to be cheated on.
> 
> Neither did she.
> 
> ...


I agree,, divorce.
But, of course he deserved what he dished out. It is symetry. We dole out consequences in all sorts of ways in life. You cheat, you deserve to feel the same.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

restitution? Arnold is that you?


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## SPRelationshipCounselling (May 23, 2012)

Try Try again, before giving up.
What is your wife needing to be willing to re-engage in your relationship? It's worth being more curious about what is going on for her and how she sees things. She wants some time away from the children, some nourishment - would you be willing to meet her need for that? She is testing you saying you are too 'lazy' to make the relationship work. Maybe she needs to hear again your remorse for cheating on her and you speaking about your desire to work things out with her and your want of her. You could both get some support to work things through.
Once she feels your strong intention and your remorse over you betraying her, she might rethink continuing the affair. Maybe this is her attempt to get your attention so you really choose her.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> I agree,, divorce.
> But, of course he deserved what he dished out. It is symetry. We dole out consequences in all sorts of ways in life. You cheat, you deserve to feel the same.


I disagree. You cheat, you deserve the consequence such as divorce. You didn't deserve being cheated on in a false R. No one does.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

If a driver kills your wife in a car accident, you don't get to kill his wife with your car. I thought we all learned this back in the second grade.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> But, of course he deserved what he dished out. It is symetry. We dole out consequences in all sorts of ways in life. You cheat, you deserve to feel the same.


You have it all wrong. 

What you prescribe does nothing but harden a cycle of pain and dysfunction. This 'justice' is anything but. What you fail to recognize in your thirst for vengance is the damage that the person wielding this sword does to themselves.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Actually, I am pretty merciful. On the hnds deal, though , if someone messed with my kids etc I would have no hesitation.
> I am not big on retribution, in general, if there is a sincere apology and ownership. I have always let things go if one apologizes.
> But, this cheating deal changes BSs. It traumatizes them and makes them feel deficient. Feeling desirable by way of a RA is very understandable and justified IMO.
> I thin other moral forms of restituion, like I suggest above, are preferable.
> But, the bottom line is that very few cheaters ever make restituion. Thye, for the most part, walk away and leave a trail of destruction in their wake.


To me, this starts to get to close to other "traumas" to justify affairs. Men who have an affair because their wife is a shrew and has withheld sex and belittled them for years. Women who have an affair because their husband is a mentally abusive alcoholic who can't perform and has left them sexless.

The BS is certainly in enormous pain, but that does not give them permission to act in any way they see fit.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

JMHO. I understand some others see it differently. 
So, what restitution is appropriate? Many religions teach that forgiveness without restitution is undeserved. Our civil law is based on this, as well.

It boggles my mind, the marriagebuilder's philosophy on "just compensation. As I understand it, the "just compensation" is for the cheater to start abiding by rules/boundaries that he or she should have been abiding by in the first place.

It's like saying that a criminal pays his or her debt to the victim by simply no longer victimizing him/her. No mention of making up for the past.
How is it vengeful for a betrayed spouse to partake in some of the same pleasures her H did? Isn't her H invested in making sure that her life contains the same amount of pleasurable experiences that his did?
I would think a loving cheater would be saying to himself" hey, that was an absolute blast having sex with a new, fresh body. All the excitement and novelty. Wouldn't it be nice if the person i claim to love could have a life filled with just as much pleasure and excitement."


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> JMHO. I understand some others see it differently.
> So, what restitution is appropriate? Many religions teach that forgiveness without restitution is undeserved. Our civil law is based on this, as well.





Arnold said:


> It is , actually, a pretty well accepted way of demonstrating remorse, well founded in a lot of philosophies and mentioned in writngs on forgiveness.
> It is a gesture, a tangible sign, of remorse and an attempt to level the field. It releives some of the betrayed's resentment and also alleviates a bit of the guilt the offender has.
> Our legal system recognizes restitution as a way of making amends as do many religions.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

This Arnold fellow sounds very smart. What happened to him?


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

It doesn't matter if she is justified in having an RA, what matters is what's happening now and what you want your future to hold.

If you want your marriage to work you need to break up the affair. Without telling your WW that you're going to do so, expose the affair to the OMW if there is one. You should also expose to those who are important in your W life. This, naturally, would mean you'd have to expose yourself to these people if you haven't yet done so. "As you may or may not know, I regretfully had an affair from ____ until _____. W and I were on the road to reconciliation when I discovered she was having an affair with __ ___. She has chosen to continue this behavior, leaving the children and I alone at home many nights. I'm asking for your help to encourage my W in keeping our family intact. She can be reached at ___. Thank you."

DON'T just sit back and do nothing. She is a broken woman and every minute spent in this affair is worsening her condition. You cannot take her silly little tit for tat, "stat out of it", ramblings seriously. Your entire family is affected by this. 

While all of this is going on, it would be a good idea to write a timeline of your affair. Keeping even the smallest secrets from your W keeps you from a true R. She deserves to know everything and I'm sure she senses she doesn't have the full truth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> This Arnold fellow sounds very smart. What happened to him?


He was banned. 

Think he went out on some sort of crusade after that. Something about avenging his wife's cheating, he was going out to cheat as much as he could to get back at her. 

I heard he did exactly that. But since she had made him a cheater, he hated her for it and hated himself for betraying his own morals. He thought he deserved to be betrayed again... His story got confusing after that, think he wanders around angry, yeling at himself and accussing himself of cheating on himself now.... Bright guy, Sad story though.

lol.


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## Martin12 (Apr 27, 2012)

My wife's affair was not a RA, although revenge and suspicion of me played a part in it. Her thing was more the old lost love who came out of nowhere after 34 years and took her to Fantasyland where taxes and other mundane issues are not present. The affair was also aided by my absence working overseas and emotional neglect and lack of communication.

I agree with those who say it is a wake-up call for those who have cheated in the past. I used to think that having sex with an OW was just a little step from shaking hands.

I don't see the value in being rigid about things. Stuff happens in a long marriage. If the marriage is of value to you and your spouse you can recover, older and wiser. A sense of humor helps.

I do think the OP needs to have his wife end the affair now, though: she has to make a choice now, not in three months.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> JMHO. I understand some others see it differently.
> So, what restitution is appropriate? Many religions teach that forgiveness without restitution is undeserved. Our civil law is based on this, as well.
> 
> It boggles my mind, the marriagebuilder's philosophy on "just compensation. As I understand it, the "just compensation" is for the cheater to start abiding by rules/boundaries that he or she should have been abiding by in the first place.
> ...


Restitution is not really part of the criminal justice system, and no one thinks that the civil suits for receiving money to compensate for physical harm in any way makes the victim whole.

The cheater steals from their spouse. Allowing that spouse to cheat in return does not make them whole, or give back what was taken.  Cheating actual ends up taking more away from the BS. Where as before they had their honor, intergrity and moral compass, they are left with the understanding that in their weakness and pain, they throw that all away for short lived physical pleasure. 

I fail to see how advocating that is in any way healthy for the BS.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> He was banned.
> 
> Think he went out on some sort of crusade after that. Something about avenging his wife's cheating, he was going out to cheat as much as he could to get back at her.
> 
> ...



Yikes. Tell him to give me a call and I may be able to help him. He does sound very bright, indeed.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Restitution is not really part of the criminal justice system, and no one thinks that the civil suits for receiving money to compensate for physical harm in any way makes the victim whole.
> 
> The cheater steals from their spouse. Allowing that spouse to cheat in return does not make them whole, or give back what was taken. Cheating actual ends up taking more away from the BS. Where as before they had their honor, intergrity and moral compass, they are left with the understanding that in their weakness and pain, they throw that all away for short lived physical pleasure.
> 
> I fail to see how advocating that is in any way healthy for the BS.


Well, actually, in some cases a judge may order a criminal to pay restitution as a condition of probation, and , in many cases a plaintiff does feel fully compesated by $$ damages.
But, I do see your point re revenge cheating not making a BS whole. Actually, nothing can make a BS whole , again, except the BS him or herself.
Does it bother anyone, however , how cheaters seem to come out of all this unscathed, at least as compared to the BS? The unfairness of this really bothers me. Are folks suggestng there should be no restitution and no consequence for the WS?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> This Arnold fellow sounds very smart. What happened to him?


rumors abound

some say he he moved back to his farm, Green Acres
others say he started a 50's malt shop in Wisconsin
I even heard once he was the former governor of California


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> But, I do see your point re revenge cheating not making a BS whole. Actually, nothing can make a BS whole , again, except the BS him or herself.
> Does it bother anyone, however , how cheaters seem to come out of all this unscathed, at least as compared to the BS? The unfairness of this really bothers me. Are folks suggestng there should be no restitution and no consequence for the WS?


I would like to hear opinon on this too.

You could also look at "RA" as a learning experience instead of revenge. Personally I used a free pass offered by my wife 4 months past DD. I think it provided us both with some insights from the other side.

I learned how intoxicating the chase, thoughts about some strange, planning, executing etc. could be - so I understand how she was trapped in the fantasy. On the other hand, my wife learned how it feels to know, that your partner has been with another, talked intimate with another person. She also knows now, that I am perfectly capable of finding another woman, it won't take long, and the woman might even be attractive (which is my wife's night mare).

It think that these experiences has brought some understanding and perspective to our discussions. She has even shown some remarcable signs of jealousy, especially since I have started to work on my self physically and mentally. It seems to drag her own insecurities and lack of self worth into the light - and hopefully we can adress this an work on it as well as my insecurities using this knowledge.

Just another angle on the RA discussion.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

jtelep,

You need to use your head now.

You and your wife have both screwed each other enough.

Here is how you deal with a single, unmarried, fatherless posom.

When your wife goes over for another date do this:

Pack a bag for her and both of your kids.

Give them a litttle to get comfortable.

Then drive over to the posom's home with the kids and ring the bell.

Force him or your wife to come outside and hand off the kids and suitcases.

Make it clear you are done with her A and he is now responsible for your wife and kids.


Or

You can just wait to see if she finally stops or picks OM over you and leaves you with the kids.

What would you prefer to do???

If you are sick of her A then end it. If you are truly remorseful for your affair and realize how badly you hurt your wife and that she has truly not forgiven you for your A then the two fo you decide what you both want out of life.

It has got to be better than her pouring more gasoline on the fire.......

HM64


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## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

When he cheated on his wife she had the options, option to choose the easy way of D or a tough road of R, she choose the R. If she felt it as a false R or she couldn't wear the pain and embarrassment she should have chosen D if she had any morals and respect for her marriage but she choose the worst thing, to Cheat. Now she dont have any choices left. Now its the choice of Jtelep to R or D.

You already know what are the things needed for both.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> Exactly. This whole notion that a RA is somehow worse, or that an exit affair on an unsuspecting spouse is not as bad as cukolding a man who started the whole process , makes no sense to me.
> The cheater destroyed the marriage, voided the contract and the BS was blindsided.
> How is that not worse than a cheater simply reaping what he has sown, with the full knowledge that the RA is a response to the initial cheating, not an indictment of his fitness as a spouse?
> 
> ...



As the Betrayed spouse I went through everything you said. Even the extreme weight loss, and I was also super fit to begin with as I worked PT as a fitness instructor to get free membership at a highly rated health club. 

I agree with the alternative to a revenge affair should be funds given the the loyal spouse to do as they wish with a contract that states it is exempt from marital assets should the couple eventually divorce. 

I would not go the revenge affair route, but I can't believe some here are saying the the Cheating spouse should immediately divorce the Betrayed spouse, if in their confusion, humiliation, sadness, fear and pain, retaliate with a revenge affair.

It seems like the loyal spouse should give the cheater a second chance, but the loyal spouse gets none.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Kallan Pavithran said:


> When he cheated on his wife she had the options, *option to choose the easy way of D or a tough road of R*, she choose the R. If she felt it as a false R or she couldn't wear the pain and embarrassment she should have chosen D if she had any morals and respect for her marriage but she choose the worst thing, to Cheat. Now she dont have any choices left. Now its the choice of Jtelep to R or D.
> 
> You already know what are the things needed for both.


While I agree with you that she had the option of D, I vehemently disagree with your assessment that D is the "easy" option. It may be the easy option for those BS who have lost all love for their WS but for those of us whose love bank was full just before DDay, it can be gut wrenching. I envy those BS who had no love left for their WS prior to filing for divorce, they are in a way luckier than I was.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I would not go the revenge affair route, but I can't believe some here are saying the the Cheating spouse should immediately divorce the Betrayed spouse, if in their confusion, humiliation, sadness, fear and pain, retaliate with a revenge affair.
> 
> It seems like the loyal spouse should give the cheater a second chance, but the loyal spouse gets none.


:iagree:
The cheater changes the contract and does tremendous damage to another person. There should be some room for the LS to act out one way or the other. Would it be fair to demand that the LS must not shout, break things or be angry in any way (a lighter response than RA)?

Having said that, OP must dertermine for him self exactly how much room he will provide and keep his boundaries clearly communicated. Depending on his wifes response to that, he must enforce the boundaries and face the consequences.

Just to be clear, I don't think that a LS is _entitled_ to a RA - just give _some_ space


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> While I agree with you that she had the option of D, I vehemently disagree with your assessment that D is the "easy" option. It may be the easy option for those BS who have lost all love for their WS but for those of us whose love bank was full just before DDay, it can be gut wrenching. I envy those BS who had no love left for their WS prior to filing for divorce, they are in a way luckier than I was.


Well. my XW was so abusive, I had lost all love for her before discovering her Affairs. Nevertheless, divorce was no picnic. It affected my access to my kids, and my finanaces, dramatically.
But, it was not as difficult as what a friend of mine went through with his divorce, as he was still very much in love with his wife when he discovered she had 8 affairs over the course of their 25 year marriage. He was really messed up for a long time.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

I just do not understand how a cheaetr has objections to be cheated on. I would thimk the cheater would understand the effects of having cheated may include disloyalty from the BS.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I would not go the revenge affair route, but I can't believe some here are saying the the Cheating spouse should immediately divorce the Betrayed spouse, if in their confusion, humiliation, sadness, fear and pain, retaliate with a revenge affair.
> 
> It seems like the loyal spouse should give the cheater a second chance, but the loyal spouse gets none.


If what I've seen from the experience of others who had a RA is anything close to reality, for every BS who had an RA and were helped by it, there is another who rues the day he/she had one.

Oh and for those who believe that the BS will suddenly abandon his/her moral high ground attitude after he/she has a RA, think again. The RA may not be enough to satisfy the need for retribution - it seldom does - and may have other affairs to continue their punishment of the original WS. Resentment and bitterness are toxic but very addictive and thus very hard to let go off.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> To me, this starts to get to close to other "traumas" to justify affairs. Men who have an affair because their wife is a shrew and has withheld sex and belittled them for years. Women who have an affair because their husband is a mentally abusive alcoholic who can't perform and has left them sexless.
> 
> The BS is certainly in enormous pain, but that does not give them permission to act in any way they see fit.


Some here are comparing apples to oranges. 

Murdering someone in response to a murder is a crime. 

Unfortunately, committing adultery, even financial adultery which could be and should be a form of theft by deception, is not a crime. 

Of course one is not going to commit a crime in response to a crime. Who wants to go to jail for life for murdering a murderer. That's dumb and only punishes oneself.

Hence, perhaps if adultery in any form were a crime, the betrayed spouse would NOT be justified in a Revenge affair. 

But since it is not, and the perpetrator does not get punished for adultery like a murderer does, the RA is the only form of closure a BS can get. 

Divorce does not cause the same type of pain and does not deliver the same message. 

I do agree that if the wife is a shrew, or the husband an abuser, divorce is the answer, not an affair. 

Why would someone stay with a shrew or an abuser and choose to have an affair rather than a divorce. It says something about the person who has the affair rather than choosing to divorce. 

As has been mentioned many times here, many cheaters gave no clue to their loyal spouse that they were unhappy. The blame comes later in a rewrite of marital history to justify the affair. The rewrite is usually fiction. 

My Cheater husband does not want a divorce. 

Yeah and I know why, too. I am gullible and gave him lots of freedom so he could pursue his cheating lifestyle. Also, I was a low maintenance wife, who was cautious with my spending. Yet, he spent plenty on the OW


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> rumors abound
> 
> some say he he moved back to his farm, Green Acres
> others say he started a 50's malt shop in Wisconsin
> I even heard once he was the former governor of California


Nice, but I wonder why he moved in with the Douglas family when he had a nice home with the Ziffels.
Or maybe he was that squeaky voiced guy , one of the gas station attendants who did battle with Jonathan Winters in It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World(also the voice of Top Cat).
Or one of the top 10 golfers of our time(who also cheated on his wife, according to Bob Rosburg).
Regardless, I am sure we can all agree he sounds like he knows what he is talking about.
IMO, we would do well to listen to him.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> I just do not understand how a cheaetr has objections to be cheated on. I would thimk the cheater would understand the effects of having cheated may include disloyalty from the BS.


And that is why many WS get jealous, they are afraid, and they know that it's a peace of cake to cheat and justify it too.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> If what I've seen from the experience of others who had a RA is anything close to reality, for every BS who had an RA and were helped by it, there is another who rues the day he/she had one.
> 
> Oh and for those who believe that the BS will suddenly abandon his/her moral high ground attitude after he/she has a RA, think again. The RA may not be enough to satisfy the need for retribution - it seldom does - and may have other affairs to continue their punishment of the original WS. Resentment and bitterness are toxic but very addictive and thus very hard to let go off.


I agree, that likely some, if not all, loyal spouses regret having and RA.

Still, they are operating from a traumatized position in which they are not thinking rationally. 

Hence the reason why I suggest forgiveness of it, as it is a common response. 

As for not being satisfied by one revenge affair. Well, I am not sure your logic applies to all loyal spouses who have and RA.

Still, I am only saying ONE RA should be forgiven, not ongoing RA's. 

I do not think it will become addictive and saying so negates your first paragraph in which loyal spouses claim to regret having a revenge affair. 

I did not have one although I fantasized about a RA a LOT. 

Why?

I did not want to use some poor unsuspecting single guy, who may want more than an affair, and would not go after a married guy because I did not want to hurt another wife, as I had been hurt. 

But, most importantly, i felt it would degrade my own sense of morality. 

Still, the pull to have one was strong initially because I was in a very traumatized state and as the trickle truth of more lies continued to flow, the trauma continued.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> He does not deserve to be cheated on.
> 
> Neither did she.
> 
> ...


Again, I respectfully disagree. 

Perhaps for some the Recovery can not seriously begin until the loyal spouse has leveled the playing field. 

After the affair, my husband was obnoxious and full of himself because his ego had been stroked and fed but the manipulative OW. This fog and obnoxious state is a common theme on support forum. Some come out of the obnoxious fog, some don't'.

Seriously, some of the things she said to him in the emails anonymously forwarded to me were so smarmy I don't know how he could have believed them, but he liked it, and admitted to that. So, he likes phony manipulative women who use false compliments to lure him in. 

So, if a loyal spouse whose ego has been decimated needs to have their ego stroke, so be it, and the original cheater should expect it and forgive it as the original cheater is hoping to be forgiven. 

The true R can than begin.

It should end there though. No more affairs on either spouses part.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

The crux of all this RA stuff seems to be the dissatisafction we as BSs have with the injustice of all this.
Essentially, what eats at me is the fact that there seems to be no commensurate suffering by the WS. In facft, the WS got all the fun and very little suffering.
Here are some things I think I have learned in researching this infidelity business:
1) Many times it is the lying vs just the cheating that destroys the marriage.
2) One of the biggest sources of resentment is the theft of our time. In many cases, we had options to upgrade but refrained. Meanwhile,our cheating spouse hit the ground running with a new relationship in place.
3) Society really, minimizes the trauma of affairs and glamorizes them.
4)Virtually no one who has not been through this has even an inkling of what it is like. They will be impatient with ongoing pain.
5) Again, folks who have not been through this seem to need to place blame on the BS to lmake themselves feel safe.
6) Claims like 85% of couples stay married and many have better marriages are inflated due to $$ incentive by companies or individuals who get paid for reconcilation services.
7) Most of the time, the cheater's family supports the cheater and abandons the BS.
I think I have derived the most benefit from talking to other Bss vs my counselor(who is a good guy),
Oh, and 8) I had no f'ing clue just how pervasive this cheating stuff is. Not even close. I see it all over now.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> If what I've seen from the experience of others who had a RA is anything close to reality, for every BS who had an RA and were helped by it, there is another who rues the day he/she had one.
> 
> Oh and for those who believe that the BS will suddenly abandon his/her moral high ground attitude after he/she has a RA, think again. The RA may not be enough to satisfy the need for retribution - it seldom does - and may have other affairs to continue their punishment of the original WS. Resentment and bitterness are toxic but very addictive and thus very hard to let go off.


I think the vast majority of folks who have RA's regret it. That said, a truly remorseful cheater should realize that he or she damaged the BS so much that the Bs may be acting without a full deck.
We recognize that infiedlity trauma is a mitigating factor. For many years , in a large number of jurisdictions, homicide was even justified as an inital response to the stimuli.
So, even conceding that it is not a good idea, I am amazed by thise who put forth the idea that a RA is worse thatn the initial betrayal.
They seem to point to an allegation that a BS is now aware of the pain cheating causes and so is more culpable in bringing such pain because he or she knows the extent of it.
But, this is absurd to me. Clearly, a WS is aware that the cheating will cause immense pain. And, the BS is so damaged we need to cut him or her some slack if this is how he or she reacts.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

BigLiam said:


> The crux of all this RA stuff seems to be the dissatisafction we as BSs have with the injustice of all this.
> Essentially, what eats at me is the fact that there seems to be no commensurate suffering by the WS. In facft, the WS got all the fun and very little suffering.
> Here are some things I think I have learned in researching this infidelity business:
> 1) Many times it is the lying vs just the cheating that destroys the marriage.
> ...


I had no clue either how pervasive the cheating in society is. I really had no clue, until i was a victim of it and started researching it and reading books about infidelity. 

The good side to all this is that I learned there are a lot of people who don't cheat and never felt it was an option. 

I am particularly surprised to see that the number of blindsided male spouses equals that of the females.

When I first learned of my husbands cheating, I kind of thought it was a man thing. Now I know it's not. And, obviously he was cheating with a MW so I don't know why I thought it was a man thing. 

The men are after all cheating with woman.

Lastly, Yes, I think it is Bull that any marriage is improved and strengthened by an affair. That's just bull. If I stayed I could never ever trust my husband again. What kind of life is that?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> As for not being satisfied by one revenge affair. Well, I am not sure your logic applies to all loyal spouses who have and RA.


A loyal spouse who has a RA is no longer one. It is a contradiction.



> Still, I am only saying ONE RA should be forgiven, not ongoing RA's.


Forgiveness and reconciliation are two totally separate things. I forgave my ex-wife but chose to divorce her.



> I do not think it will become addictive and saying so negates your first paragraph in which loyal spouses claim to regret having a revenge affair.


No it doesn't for I wasn't talking about the former loyal spouses who regret having an RA but of those who who even after having an RA, were not satisfied that justice had been met. These are the ones I was talking about having more affairs. His wife IS addicted and refuses to end her affair. There is no guarantee that even if she does end it that she will become a loyal spouse and will never again stray.

Yes being betrayed is traumatizing to the extreme - tell me about it - but nobody forces or puts a gun to a spouse's head to cross marital boundaries that lead up to him/her having an affair. To insist that it does is ludicrous.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Yikes. Tell him to give me a call and I may be able to help him. He does sound very bright, indeed.


It's funny. You sound just like him...


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> Yes being betrayed is traumatizing to the extreme - tell me about it - but nobody forces or puts a gun to a spouse's head to cross marital boundaries that lead up to him/her having an affair. To insist that it does is ludicrous.


Preach, Papa Mori!


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Preach, Papa Mori!


Grandpa Mori, girlie.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> A loyal spouse who has a RA is no longer one. It is a contradiction.


I agree from a semantic standpoint. Still, the BS in my opinion is not and never can be the disloyal one because the marriage vows have been broken first by the cheater. Hence, there is no real marriage to be loyal to.

In a real marriage there are only two people not three.

Also, it has been proved that the victim has been traumatized and likely has situational PTSD, and may have a revenge affair in an altered state of mind as others have mentioned. 

Since the BS caused the PTSD, he needs to realize the ramifications and bear with them at least once.

That is why forgiveness on the part of the cheater should be the only option for a one time RA.

I agree this woman is wrong to continue the affair now that husband has tasted what it feels like to know his spouse is being intimate sexually and emotionally with someone outside the marriage, she must end it or he should D. 

So, we agree on that part. 

Where we disagree is that the cheater should be allowed to get off scott free breaking the vows and rules of engagement and then still punish the traumatized spouse for doing something crazy.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I do agree that if the wife is a shrew, or the husband an abuser, divorce is the answer, not an affair.


Many BS's have describe their WS as abusive based on having an affair. So why does one form of abuse cause people to excuse or even encourage an affair while other forms of abuse do not?



> Why would someone stay with a shrew or an abuser and choose to have an affair rather than a divorce. It says something about the person who has the affair rather than choosing to divorce.


There are many resons, such as financial, children, and fear. They may not be good reasons, but if these boards are any indication, it is not as uncommon as I would like.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I agree from a semantic standpoint. Still, the BS in my opinion is not and never can be the disloyal one because the marriage vows have been broken first by the cheater. Hence, there is no real marriage to be loyal to.


Then they should proceed to divorce. If they R, they don't get a free pass on an affair because their spouse did it first. Not sure why an adult would get to use reasoning that I ignore coming from my four year old.



> Where we disagree is that the cheater should be allowed to get off scott free breaking the vows and rules of engagement and then still punish the traumatized spouse for doing something crazy.


What is the punishment? What could the WS now BS do to punish that the original BS could not have done in the first place?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> Grandpa Mori, girlie.


I know. I was gonna say that but didn't want you feeling too... young, ya know ? LOL


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Still, the BS in my opinion is not and never can be the disloyal one because the marriage vows have been broken first by the cheater. Hence, there is no real marriage to be loyal to.


I respectfully disagree. The BS is no longer solely "betrayed" if they have an affair/cheat. They are now disloyal. 



Sara8 said:


> In a real marriage there are only two people not three.


Precisely. So if someone has a revenge affair, they've now added an additional person as well. So that's 4 people, not 2 or even 3.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> I respectfully disagree. The BS is no longer solely "betrayed" if they have an affair/cheat. They are now disloyal.
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely. So if someone has a revenge affair, they've now added an additional person as well. So that's 4 people, not 2 or even 3.


I still respectfully disagree.

Once someone breaks the vows, there are no longer marriage vows to be honored. The marriage contract has been breached.

With any contract breaching the contract by one party voids the contract and the other party to the contract no longer has to abide by the contract. It is void. 

Since marriage contract is void. The BS is not being disloyal by having an affair. 

AFter an affair the old marriage is dead. Even my counselors said this, all three of them. 

So there is no marriage when a BS has a revenge affair. The old marriage is void and until the BS decides to forgive the relationship is in limbo.

Perhaps after the field is leveled a new marriage can begin, and now both can honor the contract.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I agree from a semantic standpoint. Still, the BS in my opinion is not and never can be the disloyal one because the marriage vows have been broken first by the cheater. Hence, there is no real marriage to be loyal to.


If that is the case then the BS should file for divorce to put an end to the sham marriage, otherwise the BS is just as guilty as the WS of being deceitful. The affair is the ultimate expression of the lies and deceit which are what really hurts us as BS.

On the other hand, if a BS clearly states to the WS that as a non negotiable condition to continue with the marriage, he/she wants a free pass to have an affair of his/her own and his/her WS agrees to it, then there is no issue and I would agree with you that the BS was not being disloyal. But I don't think that this was the case with the OP and his former BW.



> Also, it has been proved that the victim has been traumatized and likely has situational PTSD, and may have a revenge affair in an altered state of mind as others have mentioned.
> 
> Since the BS caused the PTSD, he needs to realize the ramifications and bear with them at least once.


For this very reason I have advised to newbies BS to get into counseling with a professional therapists who has experience in treating victims of infidelity and PTSD to heal from the trauma. An RA is no substitute for therapy.



> That is why forgiveness on the part of the cheater should be the only option for a one time RA.


*Ah but a former BS who has a RA shows quite clearly that he/she did not forgive his/her former WS for his/her affair. So why should the former WS forgive his/her former BS for having a RA?*



> Where we disagree is that the cheater should be allowed to get off scott free breaking the vows and rules of engagement and then still punish the traumatized spouse for doing something crazy.


If punishment is what you want then divorce the cheater and move on. Chances are good that this will hurt him/her more since there is more than a good chance than an RA will only help him/her alleviate the guilt he/she feels and help him/her to believe that things are going to go back to the way they were before they cheated. How is that punishment?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Then they should proceed to divorce. If they R, they don't get a free pass on an affair because their spouse did it first. Not sure why an adult would get to use reasoning that I ignore coming from my four year old.
> 
> 
> 
> What is the punishment? What could the WS now BS do to punish that the original BS could not have done in the first place?


Your first paragraph contains an unnecessary put down.

Sorry you disagree. You are entitled. But, you are not entitled to claim that the logic is that of a 4 year old. What is that statement based on, an opinion?

In your second paragraph, if you read the entire thread you will see the logic of the revenge affair and why the BS should be given a pass.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Then they should proceed to divorce. If they R, they don't get a free pass on an affair because their spouse did it first. Not sure why an adult would get to use reasoning that I ignore coming from my four year old.


also, So I guess you think recovery after cheating is a waste of time and everyone should just move to D. 

I mean based on your logic why should the cheater get a free pass.:scratchhead::soapbox::rant:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

If you feel this way 



Sara8 said:


> So there is no marriage when a BS has a revenge affair.


Then 



morituri said:


> If that is the case then the BS should file for divorce to put an end to the sham marriage
> 
> If punishment is what you want then divorce the cheater and move on.


:iagree:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Your first paragraph contains an unnecessary put down.
> 
> Sorry you disagree. You are entitled. But, you are not entitled to claim that the logic is that of a 4 year old. What is that statement based on, an opinion?


My four year old does not get to misbehave just because her friend misbehaved first. The logic of "thery did it first" does not hold water with me.



> In your second paragraph, if you read the entire thread you will see the logic of the revenge affair and why the BS should be given a pass.


Again, what is the "punishment" that the first WS now BS can dole out that the first BS now WS could not have. You claim that the initial cheater has no right to "punish" the second cheater. My question is what is that "punishment" that you are referring to and why could the initial cheater have not been punished in this way?



> also, So I guess you think recovery after cheating is a waste of time and everyone should just move to D.
> 
> I mean based on your logic why should the cheater get a free pass.


I don't know where you get the idea that I do not think R should ever occur. I do think it makes sense in some circumstances. I even think it can make sense when there is an RA (though here, as she is unwilling to end it, it seems like R does not make sense). But I don't think that the RA is right or justified, just as I don't think the original A is ever right or justified.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> also, So I guess you think recovery after cheating is a waste of time and everyone should just move to D.


If it is a false recovery then the answer is an emphatic YES.



> I mean based on your logic why should the cheater get a free pass.:scratchhead::soapbox::rant:


As I said before, the BS also gets a free pass IF he/she makes it a non-negotiable condition to continue with the marriage. If the WS says NO, then the BS can go file for divorce and go find him/herself a fvck buddy. With the exception of hurting and deceiving a third party in the process, I would have no issue with a BS doing this.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> If it is a false recovery then the answer is an emphatic YES.
> 
> 
> 
> As I said before, the BS also gets a free pass IF he/she makes it a non-negotiable condition to continue with the marriage. If the WS says NO, then the BS can go file for divorce and go find him/herself a fvck buddy. With the exception of hurting and deceiving a third party in the process, I would have no issue with a BS doing this.


That's a double standard. Why does the WS get the chance to say no. The BS had no such chance.

:banghead::rules:

Now that we disagree, lets drink to that. :toast:


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> My four year old does not get to misbehave just because her friend misbehaved first. The logic of "thery did it first" does not hold water with me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just curious. Are you the BS or WS?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> If that is the case then the BS should file for divorce to put an end to the sham marriage, otherwise the BS is just as guilty as the WS of being deceitful. The affair is the ultimate expression of the lies and deceit which are what really hurts us as BS.


Mori:

If you read my post, we are not too far apart on this.

I do NOT advocate a revenge affair. People seem to be focusing on that. 

The issue is whether the WS has an obligation to forgive ONE revenge affair done out of pain, confusion, low self esteem and misinformation.

My stance is yes. The WS caused the psychological injury and now is responsible to take the high road of forgiveness so both can move on in a faithful manner. 

And, yes the point of the RA is to show the cheater what it feels like to be deceived and to have to live with that paranoia and suspicion going forward. 

Will a divorce hurt as much. IMO, that depends on the person.

If it was an exit affair. No. That is just rewarding the cheater by giving him/her what they wanted. :FIREdevil::bounce:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> If it is a false recovery then the answer is an emphatic YES.


:iagree: x1000



Sara8 said:


> The issue is whether the WS has an obligation to forgive ONE revenge affair done out of pain, confusion, low self esteem and misinformation.
> 
> My stance is yes. The WS caused the psychological injury *and now is responsible to take the high road of forgiveness so both can move on in a faithful manner. *


Eh. Nope. The WS has zero obligation to take any road, whether high or low. If they want to "punish" or whatever and feel there is "no marriage" as you stated, then they can just end it and file for divorce and be done. 

False recovery doesn't benefit anyone, betrayed, wayward, family, children, no one.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> That's a double standard. Why does the WS get the chance to say no. :banghead::rules:


*I don't see a double standard because the WS is not a slave with no say just because he/she had an affair*. He/she is an individual with free will, just like us BS, to decide what he/she will tolerate in his/her life. It may not seem fair to you but that is reality. As you and I know this first hand, sometimes life is a b!tch.



> The BS had no such chance.


I beg to differ. The BS always had the chance to go out and fvck his/her brains out IF that is what he/she wanted. The BS chose not to exercise it because he/she knows that it is wrong and that it will cause devastation to all, including him/herself. Just because the numbnuts WS was horrible for his/her betrayal doesn't mean that the BS should be as equally as horrible.



> Now that we disagree, lets drink to that. :toast:


I'll take a protein shake it it's okay with you.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Just curious. Are you the BS or WS?


Why does that matter?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I know. I was gonna say that but didn't want you feeling too... young, ya know ? LOL


No worries daughter, I'm hellbent on being a good looking corpse when the ol'grim reaper comes for me.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> *I don't see a double standard because the WS is not a slave with no say just because he/she had an affair*. He/she is an individual with free will, just like us BS, to decide what he/she will tolerate in his/her life. It may not seem fair to you but that is reality. As you and I know this first hand, sometimes life is a b!tch.
> 
> 
> 
> I beg to differ. The BS always had the chance to go out and fvck his/her brains out IF that is what he/she wanted. The BS chose not to exercise it because he/she knows that it is wrong and that it will cause devastation to all, including him/herself. Just because the numbnuts WS was horrible for his/her betrayal doesn't mean that the BS should be as equally as horrible.


I see we agree again. No, absolutely not it is wrong to have a RA. And stupid as it will hurt the BS.

I am only arguing that the WS should understand that the BS may be acting from the traumatized position of PTSD.

People with PTSD often lose their ability to make wise choices. It's textbook. They do things reactively rather than considering the after effects. 

The WS caused the trauma and needs to understand that.:rant:

Now anyone up for a triple chocolate whey protein drink or maybe Vanilla.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

morituri said:


> No worries daughter, I'm hellbent on being a good looking corpse when the ol'grim reaper comes for me.



paging mori

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/social-spot/47013-who-oldest-old-guy-regular-tam.html


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Why does that matter?


It doesn't. Just curious.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

morituri said:


> No worries daughter, I'm hellbent on being a good looking corpse when the ol'grim reaper comes for me.


:smthumbup: You will look awesome!!!


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> :iagree: x1000
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Jelly:

I agree. As the victim of a false recovery I 100 percent agree.

My point is There is no marriage based on contract law, not the BS's opinion. The marriage contract once breached is null.

Even in some religions adultery is one of the few grounds for an annulment.

That does not mean recovery is not possible and a revenge affair is not a false recovery. 

It is a reaction to situational PTSD. It is the BS reacting to the trauma albeit wrongheadedly,

That is something the cheater needs to be sensitive, too, IMO, if they are serious about recovery. 

Personally, If I were the cheater, I would expect a revenge affair, and If I were serious about starting from scratch with a new marriage contract, I would forgive the affair and move forward from their with the boundary being that we both remain faithful. 

What I don't like is that this woman is continuing the affair and flaunting it. 

She made her point, and now to recover she needs to cut off the affair and start working on the marriage.

If not they should Divorce.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I had no clue either how pervasive the cheating in society is. I really had no clue, until i was a victim of it and started researching it and reading books about infidelity.
> 
> The good side to all this is that I learned there are a lot of people who don't cheat and never felt it was an option.
> 
> ...


I think many of us bought into the propoganda that women cheat less frequently or that women cheat for different reasons.
Reminds me how some folks think that domestic violence or child molestation is primarily a male thing. Just not true, but we cling to it for some strange reason.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> It's funny. You sound just like him...


Well, I am sure he is flattered. :smthumbup: As am I.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I agree from a semantic standpoint. Still, the BS in my opinion is not and never can be the disloyal one because the marriage vows have been broken first by the cheater. Hence, there is no real marriage to be loyal to.
> 
> In a real marriage there are only two people not three.
> 
> ...


Preach, Grandma Sara:FIREdevil::rules::2gunsfiring_v1:


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Your first paragraph contains an unnecessary put down.
> 
> Sorry you disagree. You are entitled. But, you are not entitled to claim that the logic is that of a 4 year old. What is that statement based on, an opinion?
> 
> In your second paragraph, if you read the entire thread you will see the logic of the revenge affair and why the BS should be given a pass.


I've been impressed by the overall level of respect and civility in this debate. I find, generally, when somone resorts to put downs like this, they are out of intellectual ammo. Condescencion, sarcasm, etc, are , generally, the voice of the weak, an my mom would say(and I doubt she is the author).
Saw it with the remark from Almost Recovered re hand severing, too.
But, in general, this has been a good debate.
Neither side is going to convince the other, IMO. Both sides make good points.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I still respectfully disagree.
> 
> Once someone breaks the vows, there are no longer marriage vows to be honored. The marriage contract has been breached.
> 
> ...


Good analysis, except in a reconciliation situation, generally, there is a reaffimation of the K, and, theoretically, some new form of consideration for the new agreement. So, it may be that there was a new K and the cheater( I hate WS, I mean "wayward"puhleeeze) has a reasonable expectation of fidelity. 
Of course, then you get into questions as to whether a severely traumatized PTSD laden BS is competent to contract.
But, without explicit knowledge re what the terms of the new agreement are, we cannot make a conclusion as to whther it binds the Bs to fidelity. And we have no real knowledge re her competency.
I'd say , having gone completely nuts myself for this long, that there is a decent probability that she was incompetent when she agreed to reconcile. My view is that it is a res ipsa deal: if you reconcile, you are incompetent(That is a joke. No hand gernades((well, okay, a few)).:banhim:


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> No worries daughter, I'm hellbent on being a good looking corpse when the ol'grim reaper comes for me.


So, when is the plastic surgery scheduled:banhim:?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> :smthumbup: You will look awesome!!!


Damm right girl, I've got my local taxidermist on speed dial for when I croak my kids can call him to come pick me up for an afterlife makeover. :woohoo:


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> Damm right girl, I've got my local taxidermist on speed dial for when I croak my kids can call him to come pick me up for an afterlife makeover. :woohoo:


Just like "Trigger" ( or so we hear).


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> I've been impressed by the overall level of respect and civility in this debate. I find, generally, when somone resorts to put downs like this, they are out of intellectual ammo. Condescencion, sarcasm, etc, are , generally, the voice of the weak, an my mom would say(and I doubt she is the author).
> Saw it with the remark from Almost Recovered re hand severing, too.
> But, in general, this has been a good debate.
> Neither side is going to convince the other, IMO. Both sides make good points.


Interesting, because I did not intend it as a put down, but rather to demonstrate as flawed logical reasoning - reasoning we quickly correct when it comes out of the mouth of a four year old.

I do agree that we will not convert each other, but do appreciate the differing point of view.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I see we agree again. No, absolutely not it is wrong to have a RA. And stupid as it will hurt the BS.
> 
> I am only arguing that the WS should understand that the BS may be acting from the traumatized position of PTSD.
> 
> ...


I agree.

Can I have my protein whey half chocolate & half vanilla. Yeah I know I'm a cake eater. :lol:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> It doesn't. Just curious.


Fortunately, neither. However, I continue to help a very close friend deal in the aftermath of this, so read these boards to gain insight (I have recommended he come here, but I don't know if he has).


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Interesting, because I did not intend it as a put down, but rather to demonstrate as flawed logical reasoning - reasoning we quickly correct when it comes out of the mouth of a four year old.
> 
> I do agree that we will not convert each other, but do appreciate the differing point of view.


Then why not explain how you think it is flawed vs pointing out it is similar to a child's reasoning? in reality, i doubt a child would consider competency to contract or whether a valid contract still exists.
Her argument is way more sophisticated than that of a child, even if you beleive it is wrong.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> So, when is the plastic surgery scheduled:banhim:?


Ban who?


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

My Grandfather used to tell me that our Integrity is similar to a solid wall of granite. Hard to cut in and hard to break a piece off.

Once you take a piece away, it is a lot easier to chip away at the rest of the rock and it begins to crumble.

Once you take that step down that road to cheat on your spouse you have weakened your integrity. 

RA destroys what you are and also the other person.

A person shows real integrity if they decide that they cannot Reconcile but will not take the action of Revenge and decides to end the marriage. It is painful buy you maintain your integrity.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> in reality, i doubt a child would consider competency to contract or whether a valid contract still exists.


dont think i could call a marriage a contract. an agreement, or arrangement seems more accurate. legally, none of the things you promise/vow in your arrangement ceremony mean squat. 

But, Church and state are seperate so there is one binding 'contract' you do make. With the state, your arrangemnt entitles you to certain benefits (taxes, etc). In exchange, if you decide to discontinue your arrangement (at no one's fault, for virtually any reason) you agree to pay the lesser 'earner' so he/she and the dependants aren't a burden on the tax payers.

Don't pay my babble too much mind though, im a bit cynical and im just talking because... Well, I dont know why I'm talking/typing.

Carry on. 

lol.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Many BS's have describe their WS as abusive based on having an affair. So why does one form of abuse cause people to excuse or even encourage an affair while other forms of abuse do not?
> 
> 
> 
> There are many resons, such as financial, children, and fear. They may not be good reasons, but if these boards are any indication, it is not as uncommon as I would like.


Even in a court of law self defense is enough to exonerate someone of a serious crime.

Many WS refuse to understand why the spouse is still suspicious and paranoid. 

Six months post Dday my own spouse went to a bar to get a lap dance, lied when outed and when asked why said he was acting out because he was annoyed that I was still paranoid and suspicious.

I filed for divorce. 

Still, I can understand someone having a revenge affair as a from of self defense to the abuse front the abusive cheating spouse who is still mind****ing the spouse they Betrayed


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Even in a court of law self defense is enough to exonerate someone of a serious crime.
> 
> Many WS refuse to understand why the spouse is still suspicious and paranoid.
> 
> ...



At best, a RA is to boost the BS self-esteem, at worst it is to inflict pain on the WS. In any event, it is not self defense, but revenge. It does not prevent future harm from the original cheater.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

_"An-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye ... ends in making everybody blind."

*-Mahatma Ghandi*_


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> At best, a RA is to boost the BS self-esteem, at worst it is to inflict pain on the WS. In any event, it is not self defense, but revenge. It does not prevent future harm from the original cheater.


I can live with that. _Nothing_ prevents future harm from the original WS - they have demonstrated ability as well as intention and disrespect, so I don't see how NOT having extramarital sex would make a difference with regards to preventing harm!?

I would strongly suggest though, that if the LS consider having a RA - think again and ask your WS to accept a "counter affair" as learning experience to both of you. You need to agree on the extend. It will create some dynamics but not necessarily save the marriage. But who's to say what will?

OP and wife forgot to agree beforehand.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> At best, a RA is to boost the BS self-esteem, at worst it is to inflict pain on the WS. In any event, it is not self defense, but revenge. It does not prevent future harm from the original cheater.


Hi Tall:

Moot point. All self defense is a form of revenge.

I think any BS who does not feel resentment and think of revenge, likely has very deep self esteem issues and a low opinion of themselves. 

IMO, resentment is a healthy defense mechanism. 

Revenge is not healthy for the BS but it is a natural reactive reaction, and i agree just move on rather than have an RA.

That is why I filed for D.

Still, I it's darn hypocritical for a cheater spouse to refuse to forgive a revenge affair and move forward from there. 

BTW: Likely why I am so triggered is my cheater spouse told the MC, when asked what he would do if I had an affair and cheater spouse said he would divorce me immediately. Yet, he expects me to me past his cheating in six months. WTF


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I think any BS who does not feel resentment and think of revenge, likely has very deep self esteem issues and a low opinion of themselves.


I disagree. It may be the case where the WS has been a lousy spouse and discovery of his/her affair was just the "cherry on top" but for those of us that had a happy and loving marriage, the affair came out left field. I wish that my ex-wife had been an a**hole like your STBXH because then the decision to divorce her would have been far far much easier.

Lastly, *I hated all women after my wife's betrayal*. How would that have played out in a RA?


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> I disagree. It may be the case where the WS has been a lousy spouse and discovery of his/her affair was just the "cherry on top" but for those of us that had a happy and loving marriage, the affair came out left field. I wish that my ex-wife had been an a**hole like your STBXH because then the decision to divorce her would have been far far much easier.
> 
> Lastly, *I hated all women after my wife's betrayal*. How would that have played out in a RA?


Hi Mori:

We did have what I thought was a happy and loving marriage. The cheating did come out of left field. I had no clue. 

That is why I gave him so much freedom for men's camping trips and boy's night's out. I trusted him totally. Naive I now know. But I did. 

That is why i even attempted R. He turned into an Ass during R. 

As for hating all men. I don't. Is that weird? I don't hate dumb blondes, either. Even though the OW is a quintessential Dumb blonde. I am initially triggered by one that looks similar to the OW, but I can also get past that, if the woman is a nice person, IMO.

I treat people the way they treat me. 

Also, I have been meeting plenty of men who were cheated on by their wives so, cheating is not just a man thing.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> As for hating all men. I don't. Is that weird? I don't hate dumb blondes, either. Even though the OW is a quintessential Dumb blonde. I am initially triggered by one that looks similar to the OW, but I can also get past that, if the woman is a nice person, IMO.
> 
> I treat people the way they treat me.
> 
> Also, I have been meeting plenty of men who were cheated on by their wives so, cheating is not just a man thing.



I agree that cheating is not a man thing but still my hating all women at the time of my wife's betrayal was, for lack of better word, simply monstrous and for which I feel deeply shameful for but please explain to me how would hurting *an innocent woman* via an RA in my state of mind be beneficial to me and her? Sex, for me anyway, is not just simply the sharing of glands but a sign of deep love and a sharing of my soul for the woman I care deeply for. Call me an old fashion turd but it is who I am.

How is using another human being, who may want more than a physical connection, honorable?


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> _"An-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye ... ends in making everybody blind."
> 
> *-Mahatma Ghandi*_


Yes, but not may of us are capable of Ghandi like behavior(although if you research the guy, he was by no means perfect).

I think it is unrealistic to expect a BS not to pay back a WS. Why does revenge, comparable and just revenge, get such a bad name>
You hurt one of my kids, I'm hurting you etc.

I know my limitations and it would be unrealistic for me to believe I can act like Ghandi or Mother Theresa.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> Hi Tall:
> 
> Moot point. All self defense is a form of revenge.


This is clearly not true. Self defense is generally about defending yourself from harm or death. It is often reactive and without conscous thought.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> I agree that cheating is not a man thing but still my hating all women at the time of my wife's betrayal was, for lack of better word, simply monstrous and for which I feel deeply shameful for but please explain to me how would hurting *an innocent woman* via an RA in my state of mind be beneficial to me and her? Sex, for me anyway, is not just simply the sharing of glands but a sign of deep love and a sharing of my soul for the woman I care deeply for. Call me an old fashion turd but it is who I am.
> 
> How is using another human being, who may want more than a physical connection, honorable?


Yeah, pretty much why I opted for no revenge affair or response affair for those just reacting without a need for revenge).

But, really, is some form of revenge a bad thing? Aren't we being a bit unrealistic.
I feel I am a decent person, friendly, loyal, nice etc. But, if some guy punches me is the face, it's on. How is that bad?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> Yeah, pretty much why I opted for no revenge affair or response affair for those just reacting without a need for revenge).
> 
> But, really, is some form of revenge a bad thing? Aren't we being a bit unrealistic.
> I feel I am a decent person, friendly, loyal, nice etc. But, if some guy punches me is the face, it's on. How is that bad?


*
Revenge is overrated, trust me.*

Over a year ago I bumped into my ex-wife on the street. She convinced me to go to a nearby coffee shop. Despite my better judgement I agreed. She did most of the talking while I mostly listened. She talked about other subjects but when I finally had enough, I told her that I had to leave. She immediately grabbed a pen and wrote down her new phone number and gave it me. I gave it back to he explaining to her that I could not call her because I was involved with anoter woman. *The look on her face is somehting I WILL NEVER FORGET*.

*I take no joy in the hurt my ex-wife felt when she finally realized that we were through*


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

BigLiam said:


> Yes, but not may of us are capable of Ghandi like behavior(although if you research the guy, he was by no means perfect).


I think its all about trying my friend. Just trying to be a better person and fighting to be bigger is the reward... 

Noboby is perfect, as people we all pretty much suck (in varying degrees) lol. 

But, damn it I really really _want_ to try to be better. Not having a RA was a fight for me too, I had lots of options and im very proud of myself for winning that fight... I grew. 

Oh... and I just liked the Ghandi quote, so I shared.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> This is clearly not true. Self defense is generally about defending yourself from harm or death. It is often reactive and without conscous thought.


I agree with the distinction , but, clearly self defense could require conscious thought. Premeditation, no. But, it is not always done reflexively.
And, now that i think about it, there could certainly be scenarios where it includes premeditation i.e where one is trapped in a basement by a serial killer and has to plan the escape to include injuring the kileer.


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I think its all about trying my friend. Just trying to be a better person and fighting to be bigger is the reward...
> 
> Noboby is perfect, as people we all pretty much suck (in varying degrees) lol.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I resisted as well. But, I still would like to hit my XW in the face with just one cocunut cream pie before I die.(Ghandi loved that pie).


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

morituri said:


> *
> Revenge is overrated, trust me.*
> 
> Over a year ago I bumped into my ex-wife on the street. She convinced me to go to a nearby coffee shop. Despite my better judgement I agreed. She did most of the talking while I mostly listened. She talked about other subjects but when I finally had enough, I told her that I had to leave. She immediately grabbed a pen and wrote down her new phone number and gave it me. I gave it back to he explaining to her that I could not call her because I was involved with anoter woman. *The look on her face is somehting I WILL NEVER FORGET*.
> ...


My first XW, a serial cheater, once took me by the hand, several years after our divorce, looked me in the ey and said" I love you Liam" . Then, she asked for a hug.
I was shocked and told her I did not want to hug her.
I think it rattled her.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

BigLiam said:


> My first XW, a serial cheater, once took me by the hand, several years after our divorce, looked me in the ey and said" I love you Liam" . Then, she asked for a hug.
> I was shocked and told her I did not want to hug her.
> I think it rattled her.


Of course it did. She may or may not realized what she sacrificed in the altar of selfish pleasure at the time she gave herself permission to betray you. A married woman who easily gives her precious body to an OM is definitely worthy of some serious counseling.


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## mychoice (Mar 31, 2012)

I've read this whole thread. Hard to believe that any of us could think that cheating for any reason is justified.

It's not...EVER!

I'm a BS, I found out four years after her cheating shortly after we were married. I got the full truth 28 years later. She has been my one and only.

I know one thing. I could never replicate the harm she has decimated upon me. There is nothing I could do to hurt her as she has willingly hurt me. The talk of RA's is silly. It could only devalue me. As for her, she feels she has it coming. Yet I know I could never cause the pain I've endured. The element and damage of surprise would never exist. The shock and after shocks would not be possible. There is no innocence among those who already expended theirs. You get one try at this one. You either get it right, or you're just a cheater like all of the rest. And, why would I want to intentionally hurt her? If I did then I should not be in this relationship.

There is no such thing as "just compensation" when it comes to infidelity. The truth is simple...if you are willing to make such a choice you WILL damage another human being for the remainder of their life. As for reconciliation, it is all up to the BS. You choose to either stay or go. Unfortunately, what many of us thought would be a temporary condition is often far more lasting. The dreams, the truth, the affect on "our" intimate lives, sex, the trepedation, the fear, the self flagilation, the feelings of inadequacy...they all last. It is, at least to me, the ultimate in cruelty. Many claim to have healed...all vow they will NEVER forget. There will always be a bit (or a lot) of rage that lives deep within you. There is no justice when it comes to infidelity.

My advice to the OP is to ask for a divorce NOW. Not in one day, an hour or a minute...right now.

I know what you did. You really need to revisit how you handled the aftermath. It was yours to make right. Did you? I don't mean in the shallow kind of way that most WS's do. I mean to a standard that your higher power would agree to. I'd guess you were far from forthcoming. If you let her languish... Can you be forgiven? I don't know, but, despite all of this you have a life of integrity you can either live or constantly seek. I say you live!

My best wishes for you. I know the pain you live right now.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

mychoice said:


> My advice to the OP is to ask for a divorce NOW. Not in one day, an hour or a minute...right now.


I agree. Why waste time attempting a reconciliation just file for divorce. 

I gave reconciliation the old college try. I felt I had to. I did/do love the ass, but I can't allow him to disrespect me the way he has. Not to mention the fact that I will never be able to trust the lying B#$tard.

It wasn't just the affair, it was all the lies and deceit and the continued lies and deceit. 

I truly don't think that a person cheats once. I think perhaps they only get caught once. 

I think discovery of one affair is just the tip of the iceberg. 

I have had people flirt in a way that oversteps the boundaries of a marriage, and I shut them down immediately. I did not allow it to progress to a level where they even considered I would be open to an affair. 

I could never have hurt my husband that way.

In addition, I can not fathom why he does NOT want the divorce after reading all the complaints he had about me in the emails that were sent to me anonymously. 

I mean, he and the OW had so many complaints about the respective BS's I don't know why either cheater wants to still be married to either of us.

My jackass cheater husband, should be glad I am setting him free.

The person who started this thread, though, also cheated and he cheated first, hence that changes the game a bit.


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## mychoice (Mar 31, 2012)

Sara...your pain is palpable. I'm so sorry you have to feel such distain. Obviously earned. So sadly sorry you feel as you do. I know the feeling. It all comes before the dawn.

As for trying...well what do any of us have if we don't try? Do you want to fail twice? At least that was my thinking. Doesn't make it right but I am stubborn about what I'm sure of. I was sure of her even in light of her betrayal. She is better than anything I'd have chosen since. I could have pursued many. I wanted her. I was always in love with being in love. Her taste, her touch, her efforts. I was, and still am, intoxicated with her...her.

BUT, I can tell you there are those who find the right road from a contrite and offering victim. There are those who find their strength in finally believing in one person who can find, through all of the hurt, a path of right, just and compassion. Is it they just need to find one that can believe even in the face of the worst? I know not. But what I do know is that we all deserve another chance to get it right.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

> I could never have hurt my husband that way.


Of course not Sara. *You do not devalue your womanhood* because he's an immature idiot not worthy of you.


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## mychoice (Mar 31, 2012)

Sadly...this is not about womanhood or manhood. This is about the feelings of being unworthy. 

We all endure those feelings. If not for our higher power we could all be overtaken by those fears. I'm no different. I fight those feelings all of the time.

I hope all of you can find within this tragedy a light of faith. It means that, no matter what happens, your life will be as it was intended to be. I'm so sorry so many are going through such pain. I know what this feels like.

You have a choice now. Use it wisely.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Sara8,

As a father, and a man, I have taught my daughters that NO MAN is worthy of them, and their bodies, until said man has proven himself WORTHY of them. Thankfully they have learned that lesson (THANK GOD! I can die a happy man for that).

I may not be your father but I don't want ANY woman to give her God given womanhood to some undeserving low life.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

what I see are some BS that will use this man's situtiation as a sub to advise him to put up with the destruction his wife is doing to herself and family just to see a cheater get his. They admit its wrong on all fronts, but their still simmering anger at their own treatment, help them find twisted logic to say he have to put up with it. I wonder if they see the damage they are doing by advising this. Did they not read how she is treating the kids now ?? Have they not throught that there may be too much damage done now for this marriage to survive ?


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## MOMMY2ONE (Mar 6, 2012)

It's sad but true , it hurts like hell to be a betrayed spouse especially when u are takin care of everything and everyone at home believe me i know, my husband left my son and i for a month in half it was the worst feelin. Try putting urself in her shoes im not sayin it's right but what did u expect ..you reap what u sow.


Sara8 said:


> I am a betrayed spouse.
> 
> IMO, you can expect the affair to go on about as long as yours did.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The problem is that sometimes the affair fog can impact the faithful spouse, too.

They can't see any way out of where they are. If their husband/wife doesn't want them, doesn't love them any more, chose someone else, where does that leave them? Cold and alone in a very dark place.

If they suddenly find another hand in their hand, and a kind voice saying: "Here, I'll help you up" what then?

Yes, they should say no to a RA but they did not generate the fog they are in.


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## MrsScorned (Jul 30, 2013)

Now comes my side of the story. He cheated on me not once but twice with the OW. He didn't just cheat he moved out of our home and in with the OW. He left me in a horrible situation with the kids. As far as my affair I never left him with the kids. The only time I saw the person that I had an affair with was after the kids were in bed. I didn't set out to have affair. I was not seeking revenge. I had been living my life with wounds that he created and felt like I was constantly worried about this other woman coming back in our lives and turning my life upside down. When the man I had an affair with came along it took my focus off that and I felt free of my pain. I had someone new to focus who had not hurt me. I did value my marriage. I never cheated on my husband until my affair. I stood by his side through so much to be kicked to the curb like a piece of garbage. Regardless I still fought to keep my marriage together when he cheated because I loved him and I liked being married and having a family. I did not know that the wounds he created by all his actions were going to linger on. I did not know that I would be weak when someone came along and gave me attention and was kind to me. It happened. I wanted to be happy. I had been sad for so long. Bottom line when it came down to my happiness or my husbands I could no longer put him first. I felt like he did not really love me and that is why he was looking for someone else. I chose for once to put me first. In the past I would have never done anything to hurt him. In other words I am saying that even if I was tempted to cheat I would not have been able to hurt him in such a way. Two wrongs don't make a right but when you reach the place where someone has a track record of showing you that they would toss you aside if a bigger better deal came along it becomes so difficult to put that same persons feelings above yours. It has broken down our marriage. The affair ended. I wanted more and he did not. He is a non-commital person. I still do not know if our marriage can withstand everything that we have been through but we remain friends for our children. We have been married for along time and will always care about each other. Most likely we will be getting a divorce but will remain close friends. He did not tell me about his postings here on this website. I googled his screen name and discovered he had been posting here.


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## BK23 (Apr 17, 2013)

Your husband was a complete and utter [email protected] for what he did to you, your family, and your marriage.

Congratulations on sinking to his level, and then sinking even further.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

MrsScorned said:


> Two wrongs don't make a right but when you reach the place where someone has a track record of showing you that they would toss you aside if a bigger better deal came along it becomes so difficult to put that same persons feelings above yours. It has broken down our marriage. The affair ended. I wanted more and he did not. He is a non-commital person. *I still do not know if our marriage can withstand* everything that we have been through but we remain friends for our children. We have been married for along time and will always care about each other. Most likely we will be getting a divorce but will remain close friends. He did not tell me about his postings here on this website. I googled his screen name and discovered he had been posting here.


I asume the affair just ended (becasue OM's choice) so you have been flaunting this affair for more than a year and a half and you still are shifting the blame, being defiant and completely entitled and unrepetant.
With that attitude the bolded piece screams how delusional you are to think this charade still have any chance.
Yeah, get that divorce, you both earned it.

Anyway I encourage you to stay out of new relationship for a while and do some soul searching, examine the way you are behaving lately and change a little becasue your issues will be with you unless you change.
My suggestion is to choose self respect, over everything, whatever it looks like.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

This is a classic "two wrongs don't make a right" story.

It sounds like a fresh start would be good for both of you. Marriage based on mistrust, cheating, and disrespect is a waste of time. When it becomes this toxic, the alternative is much better, IMO.

Were you looking for advice, or just wanted to out the rat?

TAM is a goldmine for people struggling. Please spend some time reading and posting. It has helped many of us in ways that counselling couldn't.

Best wishes.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You two have made a very sad mess of your marriage. I feel very badly for your children. I hope that both of you can be responsible enough to focus on them.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

MrsScorned said:


> Regardless I still fought to keep my marriage together when he cheated because I loved him and I liked being married and having a family. .


You made the decision to stick with him. You liked being married and having a family. Once you make that choice, your cheating is not justified by his past.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

It sounds like your wife tricked out the Karma bus with AWD, put on snow chains and is now doing smoky burnouts on your A$$.....

I would not expect a lot of sympathy here....Your best choice is to divorce your wife, and try to become a better person......She deserved better, what do you think you deserve?

the woodchuck


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## LostViking (Mar 26, 2013)

I think divorce would be the best option in this case. These two should not stay together given their proclivities. Neither of them have the moral high ground. And the sorry example they are setting for their kids cannot be healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CEL (May 7, 2013)

This is awesome your post is full of justification for why what you did is okay. Then you lay it in that you would be with the ON but he only wanted you for sex. Yeah you are great wife material. But hey you can be friends because you know I betray my friends all the time and they totally forgive me even when I show no remorse. Not at all.

You sold your honor, integrity and shyte in your vows the same as he did. Instead of be rising above it and either leaving him or do an in house separation you cheated then flaunted it just like he did. When exactly did you become the kind of person the younger you would despise?

You can still be a good person start your own thread and be open to changing.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Oh boy, madhatters.



MrsScorned said:


> When the man I had an affair with came along it took my focus off that and I felt free of my pain. I had someone new to focus who had not hurt me.


Yet, assuming you don't mind being used by the OM.



> I did value my marriage. I never cheated on my husband until my affair..


Then no, you didn't (you just thought you did). This line made me lol "I never cheated until I cheated". First time for everything. 



> I stood by his side through so much to be kicked to the curb like a piece of garbage. Regardless I still fought to keep my marriage together when he cheated because I loved him and I liked being married and having a family. I did not know that the wounds he created by all his actions were going to linger on.


You made a choice to take him back, those are the consequences. Nobody said it would be easy.




> I did not know that I would be weak when someone came along and gave me attention and was kind to me. It happened. I wanted to be happy. I had been sad for so long. Bottom line when it came down to my happiness or my husbands I could no longer put him first.


This is everyone's excuse for having an affair, hell your husband probably thought the same thing when he had his. It's still no justification. If you were not happy you could have tried to get help or walked out the door.



> I felt like he did not really love me and that is why he was looking for someone else. I chose for once to put me first..


My wife used that same line "I didn't think you loved me...". That's such [email protected], its just more self justifications you tell yourself to do something you know is wrong.

You both screwed up and you both have to live with the fact that you cheated in a marriage and that's going to be a red flag that you'll carry on in future relationships. Cheating isn't just hurting the other person, its hurting your dignity and reputation with friends and family as well. Neither one of you are faithful spouses anymore.

I only say this because most people that cheat don't really see the magnitude of what they have done. If you minimize it you leave yourself open to do it again in the future. Once you cross that line, its easier to do it again later.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Epic post


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I totally understand RA's. If I ever did decide to stay with a cheating SO (I do not think I ever would and the one time I was cheated on I simply ended it immediately), I think I would definitely consider a brief RA/ONS to prove a point and show her a taste of her own medicine.

But after I had made my point, I would end it and tell my SO that now that she understands what she did in a real personal way, if we were going to continue, we both have to recommit to never straying outside the relationship again.

But this is not what you did MrsScorned. You carried your A well past the point of demonstrating to your WH the pain and suffering of betrayal.

You drove what chances were left for reconciling your M off a cliff by continuing your A and rubbing it in your H's face for an extended and painful period of time.

He put the M in a coma, and you cut off the life support.

Divorce is the best option for you two now.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

MrsScorned said:


> "EDITED*
> The affair ended. I wanted more and he did not. *He is a non-commital person*.


I have news for you lady - Neither are you...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MrsScorned said:


> Now comes my side of the story. He cheated on me not once but twice with the OW. He didn't just cheat he moved out of our home and in with the OW. He left me in a horrible situation with the kids. As far as my affair I never left him with the kids. The only time I saw the person that I had an affair with was after the kids were in bed. I didn't set out to have affair. I was not seeking revenge. I had been living my life with wounds that he created and felt like I was constantly worried about this other woman coming back in our lives and turning my life upside down. When the man I had an affair with came along it took my focus off that and I felt free of my pain. I had someone new to focus who had not hurt me. I did value my marriage. I never cheated on my husband until my affair. I stood by his side through so much to be kicked to the curb like a piece of garbage. Regardless I still fought to keep my marriage together when he cheated because I loved him and I liked being married and having a family. I did not know that the wounds he created by all his actions were going to linger on. I did not know that I would be weak when someone came along and gave me attention and was kind to me. It happened. I wanted to be happy. I had been sad for so long. Bottom line when it came down to my happiness or my husbands I could no longer put him first. I felt like he did not really love me and that is why he was looking for someone else. I chose for once to put me first. In the past I would have never done anything to hurt him. In other words I am saying that even if I was tempted to cheat I would not have been able to hurt him in such a way. Two wrongs don't make a right but when you reach the place where someone has a track record of showing you that they would toss you aside if a bigger better deal came along it becomes so difficult to put that same persons feelings above yours. It has broken down our marriage. The affair ended. I wanted more and he did not. He is a non-commital person. I still do not know if our marriage can withstand everything that we have been through but we remain friends for our children. We have been married for along time and will always care about each other. Most likely we will be getting a divorce but will remain close friends. He did not tell me about his postings here on this website. I googled his screen name and discovered he had been posting here.


you and your H both need a time out....:banghead:


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Actually the two of them are made for each other.

What thye both do not realize is that they not only hurt each other but their kids.

It does not matter if you waited until they were asleep before you left your house to screw the OM.

The fact is both of you are not only destroying each other and your marriage but your family.

So why not think a little less about yourselves and a little more about your marriage and your children.

Hopefully that will help you focus on what you want out of your lives.

HM


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