# Separating



## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Hi everyone... I'm new to this and have never done this before. I just need someone else to talk to other than family and the one friend that I have left. 

I left my husband (of 11 years) a week ago for a slew of reasons. 

First and foremost because he was down right mean to our children. Two girls 6 and 7. Constantly calling them names an swearing at them plus a little of physical abuse. Girls this age get enough of the name calling ect... at school. I believe that you should build your children up not tear them down. 

Second reasons that I left him is because he has been mean to me as well. Don't get me wrong he has never hit me but he is verbally and mentally abusive to me. This whole thing came about a long time ago right around the time the kids were born. It has escalated from there and what I'm saying here are some of the more recent events. He started making me feel guilty for taking the kids to see my dad (whom the H does not like). He would say I thought we were going to do this and that today but I guess I don't count. Very jealous person. So jealous that he would make me feel guilty for spending time with my own kids. Basically if I didn't do what he said to do he would make me feel guilty. 

What I see know is that he was trying to alienate me from my family even further. Friends that I had have gone there own way. I have even missed out on new friend ships because of him. He believes that he should be the only one that I talk to because he is "my best friend". Then he would constantly call me at work on my cell phone just to chat and basically see who else I was talking to (he still tries to do this). He constantly accused me of having a boyfriend or girlfriend that I was doing stuff with. Then the day before I left he told me that he had trust issues. If I didn't answer my phone he would call 5 or 6 times in a row. Then if I still didn't answer he would text me nasty messages. Then after he calmed down he would try and play it off as concern even though he knew exactly where I was. Every time we would talk on the phone at the end of the call I would tell him I love you. If he was mad at me he wouldn't say it back. 

Third I think he just wants to take advantage of me for as long as he can. I am the bread winner in my home and pay all the bills and carry the health insurance. He can't even keep a job. Well mostly if he worked at a conventional job he would get a pay check that would say void. He owes 13 years of back child support for two kids from his previous marriage. Anyway so he went to barber college and is now a state licensed barber and we just opened his own shop about 2 months ago basically because he guilt tripped me into it. Then for his birthday in July he wanted a boat. Well I can't afford to buy him a boat and he put up such a fus that I was completely sad and depressed because I couldn't buy him something he wanted. However I did buy him some fishing stuff and gave it to him. He looked at me and said gee thanks but can I go buy what I wanted now. Also we went to the store to get a few things and I told the kids to pick out something that cost $1. Then he gave the kids grief because he supposedly didn't get anything for his birthday. UGH how can you do that to a KID. 

Anyway these are just some of the last straws that drove me to my decision to leave. So now that I have been out for a week I feel so relieved and am starting the long road to recovery. However he keeps calling and texting me everyday. I honestly don't even want to talk to him. He wants to fix things and has sought counseling at the local church and has admitted he has issues. However I feel like it is a ploy to get me to come home. I have been trying to fix our relationship for a long time. Every time he says he will change and he does for a few weeks then he is right back to the same crap. 

However I'm confused. My mind is telling me to try one more time but my heart is saying it is over. I don't feel love for him anymore the only thing I feel is resentment and hate. I get that couples have arguments and disagreements but usually they say sorry and try to work it out. Not with him he usually just told me to get over it and or throw past things in my face. I quite telling him everything a long time ago because of it. I started doing some research on emotionally, mentally and manipulating relationships and everything they say is him 100%. They also say that these kind of people don't change. Does anyone know if this is true? Sorry this is so long but I really need and un bias opinion. Thanks


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi, and welcome. And sorry for your situation.

Can you please edit your post and break it up into several paragraphs? (edit button is at the bottom of your post)

I would like to read it but my eyes are crossing!


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Hi emr You will get lots of good advice on here but the first rule of an abuser is to separate them from their family and friends. Then you belittle them until they think they deserve what they dish out. He is an abuser and I'm sure some have changed but from what ur saying he has already started to stage things so that u appear to be the bad one cuz he is in counseling and ur not willing to give him a chance. For you kids dont go back until some major changes have occurred if at all. I'm sorry you and ur kids are going throug this. Good luck


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

emr said:


> However I'm confused. My mind is telling me to try one more time but *my heart is saying it is over. I don't feel love for him anymore the only thing I feel is resentment and hate.*


This alone is reason enough NOT to get back with him (nevermind his verbal and emotional abuse). You no longer love him; in fact, all you feel towards him is resentment and hate. This is NO basis for a relationship. He is a snake-bellied bottom-feeder and he does NOT deserve you or your beautiful children.

Please move on from this creature and live the life that you SHOULD be living. Put all of your resources towards YOUR family (not a blood-sucking freeloader).

Stay the course. Do not question your decision, and do not go back.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

done editing


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Happy what about 180?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Blaine said:


> Happy what about 180?


 @Blaine

emr, the "180" was really designed for spouses who are facing infidelity issues, but you may still find it helpful as you are trying to detach from him and get stronger. Not all of them will apply to your situation, but many will. You may find that some of the suggestions help you heal and move forward, especially if he is constantly trying to contact you.

Some of the suggestions in the 180 would be good for emr to help HER heal, but she shouldn't use it in the hopes that HE will change and they will get back together. This man is morally lacking on many levels... abusive jerk, deadbeat dad (owes thousands in child support) freeloader (can't hold a steady job and bring in a paycheck), jealous monster, etc.


*The 180*

1. Don’t pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don’t point out “good points” in marriage.

4. Don’t follow her/him around the house.

5. Don’t encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

6. Don’t ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don’t ask for reassurances.

8. Don’t buy or give gifts.

9. Don’t schedule dates together.

10. Don’t keep saying, “I Love You!” Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.

11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

13. Don’t sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don’t push any issue, no matter how much you want to!

15. If you’re in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that “they (the wayward partner)” are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life…without them!

17. Don’t be nasty, angry or even cold – Just pull yourself back. Don’t always be so available…for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you’re missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self-assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control. YOURSELF!

21. Don’t be overly enthusiastic.

22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Hear what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It’s not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don’t care.

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It “ain’t over till it’s over!”

32. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don’t work out with the affair partner.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks Happy i'm still a noobie and still learning.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Thanks everyone for being so kind. He is trying to be sweet and charming all of a sudden. With the I love you's (which I will not say back). Then he asks why I don't say it back but I can hear the underlying anger in his voice. I'm standing firm. I honestly don't think he will change because this is the same way his dad treats his mom. He also trys all of this on his mom as well. I have talked to his brother and sister and they say I'm doing the right thing. They can't stand him either. I thought I was crazy for a long time but now I just see where it was him controlling me.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

He will do what he can to appear to be an angel and rally people to work on you. Stay strong and stand up for urself and ur kids


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Ole mr.fisty is here. He is setting up the narrative to paint the picture. What this does is set a strong impression and it will take a lot more evidence to disprove than what he made in his initial claim.

He wants to sell an alter picture of the reality of your situation and who you are as an individual.

Save all text, emails, and voicemail. Just message him, and only about the kids.

Mean while work on you. This has created a strong emotional baggage linking back to him and it is hard to move on with your life when your husband is strongly influencing your mental and emotional state.

Be steady and if there are those that take his side, limit contact with them. Find people who will support you on your own, and support you as an individual.

Since he cannot control you with abuse, he will try in other ways. He must punish you for escaping.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm not off my rocker you all see the same things I do. I have an awesome support system in place. My dad, his wife, her daughter that has been through this kind of thing before. My brother and my dad's neighbours who I spent a lot of time with when I was younger. 

However, he says that he will move out of the house and go stay with his sister. But I think it is a ploy to get me away from my dad and my support system. Also I think the next thing I know he would be back in my house. 

It gets better his 18 year old son lives with him and he asked if he could stay there in the house. I can't put the kid out it doesn't seem right. I wonder if I go to the leasing office if they would let me out of my lease?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You have been in a domestic abuse situation - mental and emotional abuse and you are right to take your young Ds away from that environment. Remember just because he doesn't hit does not mean that mental and emotional abuse are any less, in fact they are worse. He has many of the characteristics of an abuser and he has burnt his bridges with you. You tell him he can get all the help he needs but it will need a complete separation (do it legally) and a long time before you would even consider seeing him again. He is now clutching at straws to pull you back in, do not fall for it. if he does change in a year or two, then see what happens or by then it may not matter.
He may also be a narcissist, (wanting everything to be about him). He has brought nothing to your marriage from the sounds of it and has been sponging of you.

Start keeping a journal and recording the incidents you can remember from the past, update it as things come to mind (you may need to refer to this when he tries to sweet talk to you and rewrite the past)
Keep a record of all communication (if you eventually communicate), use VARs for meetings, you can upload software onto your smart phone to record incoming calls (the IT experts on TAM may have more info on this). This is to ensure you keep your head and thoughts straight because abusers know how to manipulate big time.

Get yourself some professional help (for your kids too) as you have been through alot. (contact organisations aligned with the National Centre for Domestic and Sexual Violence)
You do not want to go back into this relationship (unless he changes which is highly unlikely) so get a restraining order against him if he escalates. Is it likely that he could escalate his behaviour?
Get a good lawyer to ascertain your rights and what to do, the professional counsellor (domestic abuse) should also be able to advise you on next steps
Do the 180 selectively (it will help you to move on), ensure there is no contact
Keep working, take care of your health, try to get out and make friends with other women, you need a support network. Be there for your girls.

You can do this.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Oh what a long day yesterday!!

He started texting me and calling me yesterday relentlessly. 

1st text
"it's been a week since you went to your dad's house I wish you would just tell me how you feel. so far its been me telling you what I'm changing to be a better partner and father how do you feel cant you open up to me and say anything I won't get mad just want to hear your side of this whole thing." I have already told him I want a divorce and have not changed it. I have also told him countless times that he needs help. Anyhow I didn't respond to this message. 

2nd text
Will you call me? After no answer and no call he calls me.

3rd text
Please stop iceing me out I just really want to hear your voice. To me this is very irritating. I still didn't respond though

4th text
I would like to see the girls tonight. Can I come see them. I won't talk to you if you don't want to talk to me. I miss them. Still not responding

5th text
Can I see my kids tonight?
J (18 year old) wants to see them too.
is it so bad to text me and let no?

I finally answer back
Yeah sure you can come see them at my dads.

Then he replies with all this while I'm at work trying to get my job done and he knows it.

That's what I planned. Are you going to be their? if so I can stay outside

What did I do that has you not wanting to talk to me?

is it cause I was trying to talk to you? you said that you would call me and talk I just don't understand!!! (I did say this then changed my mind.)

Am I that wrong wanting to no how you really feel? I'm trying to save our marriage !!!! I don't no how to do that if you will not talk to me sorry. Do you just want me to leave you alone. 

I miss you do much we have a lot of years together it hurts that you may not want me anymore. 

Do you have feelings for me any more?

I made another appointment with the pastor for Wednesday not tomorrow next Wednesday at 5 it would be nice if you could make it. 

I didn't reply to any of those messages. He did come to see the girls under supervision. Later that night when we were all getting in bed my oldest daughter says. "Mommy I really miss Dad. When can we move back home." This about tore my heart right out. I didn't know what to say. So I chose to say nothing and hugged her until she feel asleep. Then I cried. I'm having a really rough time with this. I don't know how to explain it to her that mommy and daddy are not getting back together.

What do you guys make from all this?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

emr said:


> Thanks everyone for being so kind. He is trying to be sweet and charming all of a sudden. With the I love you's (which I will not say back). Then he asks why I don't say it back but I can hear the underlying anger in his voice. I'm standing firm. I honestly don't think he will change because this is the same way his dad treats his mom. He also trys all of this on his mom as well. I have talked to his brother and sister and they say I'm doing the right thing. They can't stand him either. I thought I was crazy for a long time but now I just see where it was him controlling me.


I do think sometimes people are possible of change, but certainly not overnight! Anyone can act a certain way to get you to get back together with them (I'm living proof of this with my ex). Don't fall for it. You don't have to actually get divorced if you file, but if he actually is going to make changes, it's going to have to be for a sustained period of time for you to believe it - like a year.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

When he asks you if you want him to just leave you alone, you should say yes.


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm so sorry for what you are going through. One thing that every woman i have ever talked to, said was "We may get to a point where he will hate my guts but he would never do anything to hurt his children" And i had to explain that he would do anything if it got him what he wanted. He may have just wanted to see the girls and he may have known what affect it would have on them and you. Stay strong and remember part of this is what's best for them.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

This is what abusers do. He'll kiss your a$$ just long enough to get back in then you'll get more of the same abuse. Textbook what's going on here. 

Stop communicating unless it's kid related. He'll try use them to manipulate too, in fact he already is. Stop talking to him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

emr said:


> Oh what a long day yesterday!!
> 
> He started texting me and calling me yesterday relentlessly.
> 
> ...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I wanted to colour my responses but didnt work, sorry, difficult to read but I am not redoing it


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Horrible night last night. I was busy at work all day and didn't have time to be on the phone so I ignored every text and call from him. When I got home my phone was dead and need to be charged. I put it on the charger and then took my kids to the park to play for a while. We where gone for about an hour. I sat down and was talking to my dad when the phone rings. it was him of course. My dad asked me if he should answer it and I said yeah thinking he wanted to talk to the kids. Oh no he wanted to talk to me. I answered the phone and he just lit into me about not answering my phone and not returning text messages. I didn't say anything in fact I refused to say anything back. I let him rant at me like an idiot. Then there was another phone call so I switched over to get it. Saved by the beep. Anyway he tried to call my cell again and texted me. He also tried to call my dads phone back but we didn't answer. I ignored all of it. 

I texted him back this morning and said

The future depends on you and yesterday was a set back. So I don't have answers for you. I asked you for some space. you have not given me that. We have talked a little here and there. 

This is the reply I got back.

Look I was upset cause I thought after talking to you Tuesday night we were going to do a couple things together and then eat dinner as a family. can't you understand that I was looking forward to that more than anything. Would it have been so hard to call or text me and say hey Bob I don't feel like going to Williams today. I can't help but miss you guys my wife and kids are gone. 

So I never agreed to eating dinner as a family. Secondly I did tell him that I didn't feel like going. Typical him. 

Then I had to call him this morning to get some information for a bill that I needed to pay. He gave me the information then started rambling on and on about how much he misses the girls and that he doesn't know how he is going to take care of his son and that he was going to go get state assistance. I told him that I would give him some money but he said I don't want your money I just want my family back together. UGH!!!!!

So I printed out the divorce papers this morning and am going to go through them when I get home. Sign and date everything and send them in. Then I have to have him served and then I have to wait 6 months before it will be final. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Done with this crap!!!!!!!!!!!

He also asked if he was only going to get to see the kids every other weekend.... I wanted to say DUH that how it work you should know that already.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Thank you Aine, you confirmed exactly my suspicions about what he said. Where should I look for a support group or what kind of group should I look for?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I belong to a great single moms Meetup group. It's not a "support group" per se, but it certainly acts as one at times .


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

emr said:


> He also asked if he was only going to get to see the kids every other weekend.... I wanted to say DUH that how it work you should know that already.


This isn't the default arrangement. Child issues are ultimately decided by the judge. 

It is best that you work out a custody arrangement with him. I understand you don't want to talk to him right now and maybe email is the best way to do this - or through your attorney. If you can't agree, the court will decide how you parent your kids and who gets what. This isn't ideal for the kids. For as much as you hate your STBXH, the kids need to stay out of this. They need both parents.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Yes I know they need both parents. However he is trying to play them against me. He also is using them to get information about what I'm doing ect... 

I don't not let them see him. He comes over to my dad's during the week to see them. Also they call him every night to say good night. They went and spent last Saturday and Sunday with him as well. If they want to they can go this weekend as well. I'm not keeping them from him.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Unfortunately, you cannot stop him from using the children, even if it is detrimental to their mental health and development.

What you can do is help with is by letting them see a children's therapist. Perhaps through the therapy, it can help influence a judge's decision when it comes to child custody. Having a therapist or any other professional would be beneficial in your case.

It also shows why you should not return to him. His selfish, dysfunctional behavior does not take into account to what he does to the children. He will use them to to get what he wants.

Seek a lawyer's advice about what you can do to gather evidence, about IC for the children, and find support for yourself as well. Focus on you and the children and just communicate through text or emails. If he calls, let him leave a voice mail.

In order for him to feel secure, he will manipulate and control others. Keep that in mind.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Unfortunately, you cannot stop him from using the children, even if it is detrimental to their mental health and development.
> 
> What you can do is help with is by letting them see a children's therapist. Perhaps through the therapy, it can help influence a judge's decision when it comes to child custody. Having a therapist or any other professional would be beneficial in your case.
> 
> ...


Concur with all of this. EMR, you need an attorney who is familiar with laws in your area.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm not going back!!!! I had tried to leave him back about 5 years ago but I chickened out. I thought then that I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. Not this time though I know deep down in my heart that this is the right choice for me and my kids. I will make it through this. 

So I'm looking for a lawyer but don't know how to pick a good one... Any suggestions?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

emr said:


> I'm not going back!!!! I had tried to leave him back about 5 years ago but I chickened out. I thought then that I was making a mountain out of a mole hill. Not this time though I know deep down in my heart that this is the right choice for me and my kids. I will make it through this.
> 
> So I'm looking for a lawyer but don't know how to pick a good one... Any suggestions?


Is is possible to search for a domestic abuse support group in your area and ask their advice on good lawyers?


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Having a horrible day to day... My dad said that I can't keep my dogs at his house unless they are out side. Well my dogs are not outside dogs never have been and never will be. It is not there fault that this is happening. Not to mention they are 11 and 8. All because of some stupid flea bitten cats. UGH............... So I'm moving back to the house but him and his son will be gone. He is going to stay with his parents. Not sure how this will work out. We shall see.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

It has been tough but I have been standing my ground. I have set up visitation for the kids. It has been in place now for one week. He still is trying to call and text me all the time but that too has slowed down a bit. I dread seeing him to pick the kids up because he always wants to talk about our marriage or tell me he misses me and loves me. I on the other hand don't want to talk about it at all and have told him that many times. 

He just keeps saying that he is going to change. He tells me he misses me and he loves me. He says he thought that I would never leave him. He says think about the good times that we had. I can't remember the last time we had any fun with out arguing. I am sure that I have just block out everything and just am not ready to recall any of it. He says he dose not understand what happened or he didn't think that our relationship was that bad. 

He wants to go to marriage counseling and see if we can fix this. I told him no I didn't want to work on any of it. 

I feel a bit like a horrible person because of all the things he keeps saying. I had a break down the other day and started crying uncontrollably think that maybe I had made a mistake. But then as if on queue he called me and was upset and being very demanding that I should answer all of his questions. I just hung up the phone and realized that that was the thing I was getting away from. 

He has moved on a bit and has gotten a job but not sure that it will last like his other jobs that he has had. It will only last until he finds a flaw with his new boss. It maybe a couple of weeks or months from now but I know it is going to happen. 

He also says that he was blind sided about my decision to leave him. Now he says he should have been different and that I should give him a chance to prove that he can change. 

Every time I see him or talk to him he is an emotional wreck. I find myself getting angry at the drop of a dime with him because what he is doing is irritating just like when we were together. But then on the other hand I feel bad for hurting him like this? I'm not a mean person and it takes a lot for me to do what I did to begin with. I know if I were to go back right now I will never get out again. 

Oh and one more thing he has admitted what he has done to me was wrong and that he is sorry. I feel like this is a ploy but not sure what to do. I'm getting to the point of confusion about the whole situation all over again. The only thing that I desperately am holding on to right now is my freedom to do as I wish. 

I think I'm going to tell him that we will be separated for one year and see how it goes before I make any more decisions.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Sounds pretty common. He'll tell you anything he thinks you want to hear to get you back. Stand firm like you have been. I've said it on here many times...people rarely change long term. I learned the hard way too.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

emr said:


> Hi everyone... I'm new to this and have never done this before. I just need someone else to talk to other than family and the one friend that I have left.
> 
> I left my husband (of 11 years) a week ago for a slew of reasons.
> 
> ...



Normally it is the other way round - head says go but heart says no. In your case, you are lucky your heart is saying go too! 

At the very least you need to get the hell out of there for your children's sake if for no other reason. I would gather evidence of his behaviour towards them and get a restraining order - he clearly has no need to see them or to be around them - he is only worried about himself. And I would still press for child support etc in case he does start working when you dump his sorry a$$!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

emr said:


> I started doing some research on emotionally, mentally and manipulating relationships and everything they say is him 100%.


EMR, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, controlling behavior, verbal abuse, having "trust issues," irrational jealousy, lack of empathy, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD but, rather, that he may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe that -- after living with him for 11 years -- you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

I therefore suggest that, if you ever feel strongly tempted to take him back, you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your two daughters have been dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about BPD warning signs to see if they seem to apply.

An easy place to start reading is my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read the more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your H's issues. Only a professional can do that. The main reasons for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack -- is to help you avoid a very painful situation for you and your daughters -- and also help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend money to obtain a professional opinion. Take care, EMR.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

After reading through the list, he does have most of those traits. 

For example I have sent him some naught pictures before. Well the day I did it I took 4 pictures and sent him two of them. Well about a month later he was going through my phone because I told him to (he thought I was cheating). So to prove that I was not I cheating I handed him my phone and said here you go through it and see for yourself. Well he went through the pictures and NOTICED the two pictures that I hadn't sent him. Then he blew a gasket!!! He questioned me about them and I told him that I took four and sent two because they were the best ones. Not a big deal except to him. We went round and round and I had to endure a week of him asking me about the pictures over and over again. He was so angry with me for nothing at all. Then he dropped it until we had our big fight when I moved out. 

This was not the first time he accused me of cheating. If I didn't answer my phone at work I was out with a coworker. If I didn't answer my phone on the way home he would text me with not so nice messages. Then he would yell at me when I got home as well. 

So I think that he might have BPD among other issues traits that he has learned along the way. He used to tell me all the time that he had a rough childhood. He was supposedly always left alone at the age of 7. He has resentment issues with his Mother, Farther, Brother and Sister. He puts them down just as much as anyone else. I have seen him try to manipulate his two sons from his previous marriage against their mother. 

He is just an awful person to be around... I know he is trying to make me feel sorry (and come back) for what I'm doing to him.

My biggest problem and most likely why I didn't leave a long time ago is because my personality type is the Fixer... I want to fix the problem. I'm am now realizing that some times you just can't fix things and you have to let them go. Now I'm taking the time to fix myself.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

You can't fix him, he is who he is. And I happen to be of the opinion that people show you who they are when they don't think you're going anywhere.....he has shown you who he is. He's in panic mode right now because he's losing his meal ticket but in the end he is who he is and he's shown you who that is, it's only a matter of time before he reverts to being who he is. I think in your gut you know that.

My ex hb was like that too, he was a complete arse who admitted that he didn't think I was going anywhere and all of a sudden wanted counseling (which I'd already asked for and he refused because my happiness wasn't his problem) and to "fix" things. But in my mind there was nothing to fix, he is who he is and it's incompatible with me. And in the 10 years since I divorced him (we have two boys so I still deal with him) he's demonstrated over and over that who he is hasn't changed. Yours isn't going to change either.

Please do not let him manipulate you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Your H can talk till he is blue in the face, let him but tell him that unless he takes actual action to make himself a better man, then nothing changes. He must go for IC with a specialist who will help him to deal with his anger, controlling and abusive ways. Using emotional blackmail, bullying tactics, aggressiveness is not going to cut it. 

You are in a better place now. When he has done that, then and only then will you consider MC and then decide what to do. You are still emotionally fragile, take your time and do not make any rash decisions. He has the choice to do something about himself, that is entirely up to him. If he does not you can still be in a place to move on. Just keep it cordial for now.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

life is to short, 

Thank you for confirming. 

I have asked him to go to counseling before and he refused but know that I left he wants to go. I don't want to and have told him that.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Last night was horrible. 

So I worked out a plan for him to see the kids on Tue and Thur. I let him take them back to my home and spend time with them while I'm doing other things. My other things for example are helping my dad's neighbors with their horses. Anyway I get home last and carry in some groceries he follows me into the kitchen. "I got you these today." he says. I look to where he is pointing and there on the counter is 2 dozen white and red roses. I froze and stared Blankley at them for a minute not saying anything. 

The surprise faded quickly and turned to anger. What in the world? Did he really think that was going to make everything better and that I would take him back right then and there? I finally spoke and when I did I gave him a very dry and thoughtless "Thanks". Then proceeded to finish putting groceries away. I didn't say anything else. After the groceries were put away I went to the back door to take the dogs out. Of course he followed me. He didn't say much just followed me around. After that we went back in. 

He was at the door and asked if I would go outside with him. I declined saying no I want to take a shower and go to bed. He started in about the relentless questioning. Can we work things out? If I think of him? Which I really don't think of him at all except when I have to see him to get the kids. And when I realize that I have to see him I get a feeling of dread. What can I do to make you understand that I miss you and I love you he says. 

When all this is going on I just don't say anything back. It angers me and I know that he is just trying to get some kind of reaction from me. I think that I'm going to have to have someone else pick up the kids and tell him that he is not allowed at my house anymore. The only reason that I was doing it this way was for the kids but, I think that is going to have to change. 

Also again he is trying to use the kids well being against me. 

Ugh... I'm very frustrated at this point!!


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Not to play devils advocate but emotional and mental abuse are pretty common terms used now and people are judged and convicted of it freely. Seems like the case can be made that it's emotional abuse anytime one person makes another feel bad, doesn't let someone have their way, etc... My ex used it to justify every terrible thing she did to me and the kids. 

I would advise joint and individual counseling for you both. Many on here are quick to slap the abuser label on a guy no one has talked to and no one has heard the other side of the story. Seems like a ton of judging, mind reading, and advice coming off one side of the story here. "Abuse" is pretty severe label, one that can damage people's reputations for life. 

My ex just apologized for slandering me unfairly to friends and family. But at the time many of them believed every word and jumped on the "leave that abusive a hole" bandwagon. Oops sorry it wasn't true. Was I ever a jerk or rude? Sure, over 12 years and during the divorce even more likely. Everyone has their moments. Am I abusive? No. Did I get the label? Yep

If you start reading online, you can categorize almost anyone for anything. Bipolar, narcissism, emotional abuse, etc... I think that diagnosis should be left to mental health professionals, not Internet forums and websites.

During separation and divorce, emotions can run so high that it can make anyone act with BPD traits. Doesn't mean that's who they are normally.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm sorry for what happened to you. 

However I have not said anything cross or misleading about him to anyone. I have told my dad that I was leaving him. I left it at that. I don't feel that I have to explain my actions or make other people dislike him because I feel that he has done me wrong. I let other people form there own opinions about him. Most people don't like him without me even saying anything.

I have been living this for the last 11 years of my life. Everyday we fought about something. Sometimes he would call me just to yell at me at work about something that I forgot or didn't do. Or he would call me just to start a fight about nothing that couldn't wait until I got home. I have had to defend myself against the constant accusations of cheating with another man or women. I have had to endure bouts of jealous rage. He would get jealous about the amount of time I spent with the kids. 

He would complain about never doing anything together but when I asked him to do something I wanted to do he would say no. But if I told him I didn't want to do something he wanted to do. He would get mad and say things to manipulate me into doing it. If I still refused he would go but then put me though heck when he got back. By making me feel guilty for not going. Or even better he would call me on the phone 20 times while he was gone. 

He would constantly call me at work about 10 times a day and just want to stay on the phone for hours not really saying anything. If a guy started to talk in the back ground it was an automatic "Who is that talking?" "Is that your boyfriend?" If I went out to lunch with one of the girls in the office he would call while we were out to lunch. Even after I had told him I was going to lunch with a girl from work. If I didn't answer my phone he would accuse me of cheating with her. This calling got so bad that I have had my employer actually tell me if I didn't make it stop I was going to loose my job. When I have told him to stop calling and start texting he would get angry and say F those people. 

He didn't want me to go see my dad because he thought my dad was a jerk. My dad supposedly treated him bad. I never saw my dad even say anything sideways about him or to him. My dad was always nice to him. They used to even do things together. Then one day it all stopped and that is when my dad turned into a no good piece of crap. Then my brother who has a handy cap whom he was also nice to in the beginning. The H started treating him like crap. 

I tried talking it out with him. I even talked to my dad to find out what was going on but I could never come to any certain thing that happened. Well he held on the grudge and just would not let it go and still holds true to this day. 

I have seen him be mean to his own flesh and blood. I have seen him guilt trip his mom into giving him money that she didn't have to give for beer. Just to turn around and call her every name in the book. I have seen him get mad at his brother over stupid stuff. His sister owns her own barbershop and he expected his sister to hire him and when she didn't she was a not good so and so. He hold a lot of resentment towards his family because he had a very poor childhood according to him. But if you were to talk to his brother and sister they say the opposite. 

As for me... I have been called a cheater, a bee with an itch, a m Fer, Stupid, ****, hoe, fing bee with an itch. As you can see I have been called every name in the book except for by my name. He would also call my kids all of those things. He would come unglued at the drop of a dime. He treated the kids like they should sit down and not say a word or make a noise for a whole day. He would call the kids stupid if they didn't do something the way he said to do it. They used to cower if he got angry waiting for him to hit them. Even my dogs would cower in the corner. When I said something about his behavior he would get mad at me and tell me I was the bad parent. We just couldn't see eye to eye anymore. 

I cried myself to sleep many nights because of the hurtful things he would say. I waited until morning to bring it up again and would very sweetly and nicely say. You know you hurt my feeling yesterday. Instead of asking why or saying he was sorry he told me to get over it. So I would mope around for days thinking about what I did wrong and vowing not to make that mistake again. 

So the next time we got in a fight he would use what he learned from the last fight and either throw it in my face or make it worse than the last time. Eventually I just quite saying anything at all and just kept going all the while I was trying to convince myself that I still loved him and that I wanted to be with him. I was trying to make myself believe it. 

He was ok for him to have friends but the minute I tried he found flaws with them and basically forbid me to talk to them. The reason I believe is because he could not control what they said or did. If I wanted to go out and catch a movie or something he would make me feel like I was cheating on him and would tell me that I didn't love him enough to stay home with him. 

This is just scratching the surface of the darkness.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

Yeah.. wow, that's not the type of stuff I was referring to... i hope i didnt come off as being critcal of you, wasnt my intent, and I apologize if I came across that way. Just making sure emotions dont cloud the real issues. Doesn't sound like minor isolated incidents. Get yourself into IC. Keep up the boundaries. If it's important to him he'll figure his life out. Some people change, most dont. Get yourself figured out first then you will be able figure out the rest. Good luck!


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

No worries just wanted you to know that I was not doing what your ex did to you.


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I do think sometimes people are possible of change, but certainly not overnight! Anyone can act a certain way to get you to get back together with them (I'm living proof of this with my ex). Don't fall for it. You don't have to actually get divorced if you file, but if he actually is going to make changes, it's going to have to be for a sustained period of time for you to believe it - like a year.


Purely a follow up to the people can change. How long should she give him? I too believe people can change for the better and often on here I read where the offending spouse (not cheating) but similar to her husband being mean etc. are surprised that is what drove the other spouse away, yet with true intent and effort that can change for the better.

Ask yourself this, if he changed and you knew it, would you want to get back together? It may take time to heal but still with the problem gone would you prefer to have the family intact?...


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

I'm not sure if I would want to get back together. I feel nothing for him but hurt. I'm not sure that I'm capable of loving him again. Or if I did get back with him I would always fear when he was going to act up again. The minute he did act up I would be out the door. I don't think it is fair to make someone toe that kind of line. I have emotionally detached all feelings from the relationship. At this point there is no going back for me even if he changed for good. I have had my fill of it for the last 11 years.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

It's difficult for disfunctional people to change and gets harder with time.

He may not even be aware if how much if a jerk he has been. You might consider going to a counselor to explain the terms of divorce and separation.

Tell him clearly that whenever he opens his mouth to request, demand, plead, complain, etc., he is simply heaping more shyte on to your dead relationship.

Say it out loud: actions mean more than words. He should bust his butt to earn money for his chidren and keep his mouth shut.

If he can hold a job and be a good father for a year, you'll invite him to have a sandwich or a piece of pie. He should give up the idea of reconciliation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Might be worth a look at a book titled "Splitting: Divorcing someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder or Borderline Personality Disorder" (title may not be exactly correct).



Also, books about verbal abuse and control by Patricia Evans.... Including "Controlling People".



It may be deeper awareness if how bad it has been can help protect you from the temptation to get sucked back in.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Thank you I will look into those books.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Good weekend!!
This weekend was good and I think that he finally got the idea we are not getting back together. He did call on Saturday to complain about how late the kids were staying up and that they need to start getting back into a routine. But here lately that is all we talk about is the kids. That is a plus. However, I know the other shoe is going to drop soon. I'm filing my Divorce papers today!!!  I'm sending him a certified notice in the mail so I'm sure my phone will be blowing up tomorrow. We shall see.


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## emr (Aug 4, 2015)

Hi all, 
So I still have not filed for Divorce due to not having the money just yet. Then like an idiot I did give him a second chance. That only last a few days I am now 100% positive that a divorce is what I want. 

We stayed in separate rooms in the house but we were still in the same house. 

He woke me up in the middle of the night last night demanding that I needed to tell him how I feel about things. What I wanted to do about us. Also in saying that he said over and over again that "I Want my life back" Bells and whistles went off in my head. He has not changed a bit. It is still all about him. 

So when I get out of work tonight I'm going to tell him that I want a divorce for the second time and that he needs to go back to his mom and dads to stay. I think he is going to go ballistic when I tell him and I'm a little scared. 

However, from the last few days I have realized that I'm doing the right thing. I just don't want to be in a relationship with him anymore!! I just don't love him. He has done way to much damage to me that I can't see past it or around it anymore. I also am going to find a therapist to try and fix me. 

I will try to update the situation tomorrow if I can.


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## cbnero (Dec 6, 2013)

I'm just wondering if you want the divorce and he doesn't why you don't move out versus telling him to do so


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