# How we fell apart



## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

I have read many posts on here, and still haven't read one relating to my marriage problem. 

Oct 2009, 14 years of marriage. We had a great marriage, the kind ppl envy. I still got excited to see him when he came home after work. We were always all over each other, like teenagers.

Oct. 2009 I was dx with breast cancer. A shocker. I went thru several tests. It was fast growing cancer, and drs. were moving fast. They had to start chemo right away to kill the cancer, or shrink it to stop it from going into my lymph nodes. Once it enters into the nodes ones survival rate decreases. I was put thru 10 months of treatments.

1) chemo. Not all chemo drugs are the same, and the 1st one they gave me was one of the strongest ones they have. 6 months, 3 different chemo drugs. And YES it was bad.

2) surgery, lumpectomy. That's when they remove some tissue where the tumor was, from the breast. It's not pretty. And I had some nice looking tits, before this.

3) radiation. this wasn't that bad.

I would love to tell you that my husband was my Rock, my helper, but truth is he was not. The strong women in my family were the ones who were there. 

Husband pulled back, withdrew from me. He thought I was going to die so he started to disconnect his emotions. He avoided me, even slept in the other bedroom. Wouldn't touch me, afterall I may sweat chemo onto him. No encouragement.

I was the strong one (amazed myself) dying wasn't an option. Never doubted I would make it, complete victory--- baby !!!

Well I didn't freakin die now did I, and NOT going to. In fact have seen my docs they look like :scratchhead::scratchhead:. They call me a miracle. Dr said the chemo I had was suppose to leave me with many side effects. I guess I didn't get that memo, I have only a few, but getting better.

Yes I have resentment issues with all this. H dropped the ball, he bailed on me when I needed him the most. I was left in the trenches to fight without him. I have said some nasty things to him. He has never reconnected his feelings with me. He tells me I should be more understanding, I should put myself in his shoes. What he has done has hurt me more than the cancer.

I'm sure we could go to MC maybe it can be worked out, but I'm not so sure if I want to. Anybody ever go thru something like this?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

4sure said:


> I have read many posts on here, and still haven't read one relating to my marriage problem.
> 
> Oct 2009, 14 years of marriage. We had a great marriage, the kind ppl envy. I still got excited to see him when he came home after work. We were always all over each other, like teenagers.
> 
> ...


Well I am just flippin' speachless. YOU should be more understanding? YOU should put yourself in his shoes? 

I take that back, not speachless. Tell him to take that hairbrush and shove it up his rear end. Lordy, you are a way stronger woman than I will ever be. You sound REMARKABLE.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Also, I hope to God that he doesn't ever get sick. I would be hard pressed to even stick around if I had gone through what you did.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Your story made me cry as I sat with my dad for 2 years as he went through cancer (but he did die).

It is such a road for everyone going through it. The patient, their loved ones...it's scary and emotional and some people don't know how to deal with those heavy feelings.

Watching my dad go through chemo and radiation and lose 115 pounds...omg... I can't even bring up those memories.

I am so happy you survived!! That is amazing and makes me smile.

Your husband....well....I don't know what to tell you-- you know him best. But, some people aren't nursers...some people have lost loved ones in the past and this just sets them into that mode. His detachment was his way of coping because the loss of you would have been SO GREAT he couldn't deal with it. I'm sure he feels guilt and remorse for his behaviour too. My sister avoided my dad. She still regrets it and it's been almost 4 years.

I think MC would be beneficial. You may see that he is not the a-hole or whatever...but just scared and sad.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Ugh. Except for an affair, this is the most hurtful thing that anyone can do to their spouse. I don't know if this will provide any perspective, but Sharon Osborne (yes, that obnoxious woman) said to Piers Morgan that Ozzie and her son were basket cases during her breast cancer, but her daughter was the trooper that got her through the treatment.

Bad example, huh! My point is that it is possible that he has an aversion to illness and doctors, and he did not want to deal with them.

But that leaves you with trying to decide if you can forgive him or not. Is the rest of your marriage good? He failed to support you at a crucial juncture in your life, and only you can decide if he is worth keeping.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

that_girl said:


> Your story made me cry as I sat with my dad for 2 years as he went through cancer (but he did die).
> 
> It is such a road for everyone going through it. The patient, their loved ones...it's scary and emotional and some people don't know how to deal with those heavy feelings.
> 
> ...


Just in case you didn't see her other post, he got her a brush for her birthday instead of what she asked for. When she expressed sadness and disappointment he proceeded to yell, berate her and call her entitled. This guy is the King Kong of jerks, imo.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea, I saw her other post.

I just don't see how he could be awesome for 14 years and then turn into this "jerk".

I am betting there are some deep emotions here and he is avoiding them which makes him treat his wife this way.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

First I am sorry for all you've gone through, on your own and with an ass for a H.
I'm currently reading a book recommended by my MC after my wife's affair... it's not helping me yet to deal with her affair, because frankly I'm not nearly ready to have the discussions it suggests. But when I read your story I thought immediately this might help you. It's called Hold me Tight... 
Good luck to you on your journey!


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## Ticonderoga (Jul 21, 2011)

4Sure - Ever watch The Big C on Showtime....might make you chuckle.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Thought alot about you since you posted. Do you know the military (all branches) literally have no term for leaving a soldier behind? They have PLENTY of terms for leaving NO soldier behind. Soldiers are all partners, they look out for one another. Marriage is also a partnership.
Your husband left you alone on the battlefield.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

that_girl said:


> I just don't see how he could be awesome for 14 years and then turn into this "jerk".
> 
> I am betting there are some deep emotions here and he is avoiding them which makes him treat his wife this way.


I never really needed him before. When issues came up I took care of everything, and everybody. Then when I really needed him it was more than he could handle. He pulled away.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

that_girl said:


> : His detachment was his way of coping because the loss of you would have been SO GREAT he couldn't deal with it.


Exactly what he told me, but it sure didn't help me any. I can not grasp this. That's why he says I should be more understanding. He has built up resentment towards me.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Thought alot about you since you posted. Do you know the military (all branches) literally have no term for leaving a soldier behind? They have PLENTY of terms for leaving NO soldier behind. Soldiers are all partners, they look out for one another. Marriage is also a partnership.
> Your husband left you alone on the battlefield.


:iagree::iagree: Exactly how I feel. So what does one do when left alone to fight. You fight. What other option do you have, cry, and hope the enemy has mercy on you. Not going to happen.

When faced with another battle, would anyone want that same partner again. Trust has been broken.

I have had nightmares of being in a trench with H during war. WW2 setting. The enemy draws close. I say lets put our backs against each other to fight the enemy from all sides. We are back to back as the enemy nears H up, and bolts leaving me alone. I wake up gasping for air.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

4sure said:


> :iagree::iagree: Exactly how I feel. So what does one do when left alone to fight. You fight. What other option do you have, cry, and hope the enemy has mercy on you. Not going to happen.
> 
> When faced with another battle, would anyone want that same partner again. Trust has been broken.
> 
> I have had nightmares of being in a trench with H during war. WW2 setting. The enemy draws close. I say lets put our backs against each other to fight the enemy from all sides. We are back to back as the enemy nears H up, and bolts leaving me alone. I wake up gasping for air.


YOU fight. He doesn't have your back, sadly.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

4sure, you said in another thread that you know your H is a Passive Aggressive. And that you know he has Resentment against you. So I guess you know Resentment is strong dislike (hatred) and anger and that your H is targeting his hatred and anger directly at you by way of his Revenge. So you are his “target victim”. But he gets his revenge by “stealth”. He doesn’t want you to know that it’s him causing you grief. He could take care of you in your time of need, but he is withholding his care in order to hurt you, in order to get his revenge.

We all have some active and passive aggression in us. But Passive Aggression as a way of life is a Personality Disorder. People with PDs usually don’t know or think they have a problem and therefore don’t seek a cure. So as a partner of a Passive Aggressive it will be with you for as long as you are together. You will never experience true love, real love, intimate love, with a Passive Aggressive. You had it for a while and then something happened and your H’s Passive Aggressive ways kicked in. You will find that he is an Exceptionally Unforgiving man. And that he is probably paranoid/deluded.

My wife is a Passive Aggressive as are most of her family, that’s where it comes from, the family, parents. They are very painful, soul destroying people. My life is so very much better without any of them in it, including my stbxw.


You probably have a lot of patience and tolerance, empathy and compassion and yes love for your H. Up till now your H has not caused you enough pain to leave him or kick him out. And probably until that day comes you will continue to suffer from his Passive Aggression. It took unbearable pain and a nervous breakdown of 4 weeks for me to realise just how bad my wife was for me. Even then I tried reconciliation but there was no way she was ever going to own up to her problems and get them solved. My reconciliation was conditional on that.

Because PAs deliberately and consciously hurt others, even those they profess to love, they think others set out to deliberate hurt them. This is by way of projection. And because they think others are “out to get them” they are paranoid and deluded. So your H thinks/believes that you deliberately and consciously hurt him sometime in the past. And he is making you pay for that now , probably in many different ways. And so it will go on in the future as well.




Not only doesn’t your H have your back, if he truly is a passive aggressive out to get you he will be aiming other people’s guns at you for them and you wont even have a clue he’s doing it.



Sorry to be such a pessimist about all this, it’s taken me a long time to figure it all out and I’m still coming to terms with it. You may try, ask your H to be formally analysed for Passive Aggression. I very much doubt that he will, they can’t even “own up” to their inner workings to themselves let alone others.

I hope you continue very well on your road to recovery.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

AFEH
So right you are. I knew there was something wrong with him, just couldn't put my finger on it. I figured all this out about 2 years ago. I didn't take action then because I was dx with cancer. Now that my health is improving I realize I have to take care of me.

PA behavior didn't surface that often before the diagnoses. Perhaps I looked the other way because he was a great guy. When he wasn't there for me during treatments I called him out on it, and the ugly PA aggressor emerged. 

He says he will remain that way until I apologize for all the things I said to him. I meant all that I said. It was the truth, so why apologize. I told him I want him to acknowledge he wasn't there for me, and apologize sincerely. He won't. So here we are at a standstill.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

YOU apologize to HIM????? Oh lordy lord.... yikes. 
I feel for you, really. 
Standstill? I think not, unfortunately...!!!!  

His anger, I believe, is at what happened, not at you (at least not initially). Mis-directing it at you is bad enough under all the circumstances. Terrible. Not owning up to it with any remorse and even taking an aggressor stance about it is unbelievable. 
People never stop amazing me.


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

4sure...I had cervical cancer several years ago..I was lucky I got away with complete radical hysterecomy and radiation treatments..but now..not sure I will be so lucky next time. I have a lump in my stomache the size of a tennis ball I can only feel it when I lie down..my appointment to see specialist is still 3 months away!! 

when I was going thru the radiation my hubby curled next to me each night..I was so distraught. I felt like less of a woman as I had lost my ability to reproduce..and honestly first few batches of radiation were not too bad..after that the side effects started..

I am hoping that if this news is not good news ..that he will be the same.

I am so sorry that you had to deal with this without the UNCONDITIONAL love of your best friend..how horrible.

Lynn


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Just an FYI,
Passive Aggressive is not a Personality Disorder. There are disorders that contain some element of being passive aggressive (like Avoidant Personality Disorder), but there is no diagnosis of Passive aggressive Personality Disorder.

4Sure - I can honestly say that I have know idea what I would do if my wife went through this same situation. I would like to say that I would be strong and capable of being there for her, but I just don't know. It seems like the cancer changed both of you significantly. Maybe to him, you "died" and he may have "died" along with you. But you didn't die. It seems to me like the stronger element (YOU) won the battle over the enemy. You are battle tested and scarred (literally) which has really made you stronger all together. So on the one hand, you have someone who "died" or became weaker and on the other, you have someone who became empowered and ready for adventure. Truth is, you are both different people now than when you first met. I wonder if it is time to date again, and get to know each other. Maybe you'll have 14 more years and then he'll get prostate cancer  and maybe he'll get a glimse of what you went through.

Regardless, the way he has been treating you is not okay. I hope every man reading this thread recognizes that it is important to be there for your wife especially at crucial times like this. Keep getting stronger 4sure!!!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

donewithit said:


> ...I have a lump in my stomache the size of a tennis ball I can only feel it when I lie down..my appointment to see specialist is still 3 months away!!


Yikes, that doesn't sound acceptable to me especially as you have a history of cancer. Have you looked to other jurisdictions to get this checked out? I know for me I am a lousy advocate for my own health, but when its life and death matter I would do everything in my power to get this checked out, tomorrow.

for the past 3 years I've been living with massive nasal polyps...not exactly life threatening, however I have been WAY too patient with doctors. The lack of sleep and having separate beds with my wife, combined with all the lack of energy and drive that goes along with it has been a major factor in my quality of life and also my marital breakdown. When I finally broke down in tears in front of my doctor and mentioned I was thinking suicide I got into surgery in a matter of days. Doctors can accomodate you, you just need to make some noise.

Sorry to jack the thread, but that sounds very serious.


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

Lon said:


> Yikes, that doesn't sound acceptable to me especially as you have a history of cancer. Have you looked to other jurisdictions to get this checked out? I know for me I am a lousy advocate for my own health, but when its life and death matter I would do everything in my power to get this checked out, tomorrow.
> 
> for the past 3 years I've been living with massive nasal polyps...not exactly life threatening, however I have been WAY too patient with doctors. The lack of sleep and having separate beds with my wife, combined with all the lack of energy and drive that goes along with it has been a major factor in my quality of life and also my marital breakdown. When I finally broke down in tears in front of my doctor and mentioned I was thinking suicide I got into surgery in a matter of days. Doctors can accomodate you, you just need to make some noise.
> 
> Sorry to jack the thread, but that sounds very serious.


thanks..I am in ontario..our cancer wait times are horrendous...the fact I have not lost or gained weight..and have no other symptoms..well they are not moving fast. Hubby is starting to talk about going to another province..or the states..
thanks for the caring words..and OP sorry again for the hijack..
Lynn


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

donewithit said:


> 4sure...I had cervical cancer several years ago..I was lucky I got away with complete radical hysterecomy and radiation treatments..but now..not sure I will be so lucky next time. I have a lump in my stomache the size of a tennis ball I can only feel it when I lie down..my appointment to see specialist is still 3 months away!!
> 
> Lynn


When I read 3 months away I knew you must be in another country. I am sorry, I know the fear you must be experiencing. We in the states are blessed with being able to see a dr. most the time right away. I had a fantastic medical team. Be aggressive in this, afterall it is your life. 

I wish you well. No need to apologize for the hijack.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

donewithit, I am in SK and I know about wait time horrors... I have heard of several people in SK who have died from their cancers while still on a waitlist for diagnosis from a specialist. It seems almost criminal to me, especially when people of celebrity status seem to be able to jump the queue. In the past couple years wait times have improved but honestly it is ridiculous how slow the system can move if you don't know how to play it right.

As to the passive aggressiveness of OP's H, I agree strongly with Brian's comment, passive aggressiveness is not really a disorder its just a mechanism certain types of people use to some degree or another. Also he maybe dropped the bomb on being there for you, but until we face the situation we never know how we will react - absolutely it is important to support our spouses in those times, but that doesn't always mean we can magically overcome our weakness, however going forward he does need to accept his failures and start trying to improve himself again.


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## donewithit (Apr 7, 2010)

wow...thanks for the support guys..this was not what i came to this thread for..just letting 4sure know that her hubby SHOULD be emotionally supportive. I am lucky mine IS. thank you both so much. I have tears in my eyes right now as other than my husband..my support system is nil (we have not told our kids about this new lump)...I think you are right. I will get on the phone tomorrow...aggressively. thanks. you may have saved a life tonight


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Unfortunately, it never ceases to amaze me the number of persons that find themselves unable to do the right thing at the absolutely most critical time in their lives for them to demonstrate their character. Even more amazing is that it is completely unpredictable who is going to step up and who is going to fall.

Btw, my wife decided it was time to end her participation in our marriage six months after my mother died. With 3 little kids mind you. You just can't tell in advance.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Unfortunately, it never ceases to amaze me the number of persons that find themselves unable to do the right thing at the absolutely most critical time in their lives for them to demonstrate their character. Even more amazing is that it is completely unpredictable who is going to step up and who is going to fall.
> 
> Btw, my wife decided it was time to end her participation in our marriage six months after my mother died. With 3 little kids mind you. You just can't tell in advance.


There is a woman here whose husband (a medical doctor) not only abandoned her in the hospital after her emergency hysterectomy but went and cheated while his wife lay in recovery. He said he was "so scared" of loosing her and that was the reason for his behavior. Her pain is staggering. 
Like you said, you never can tell.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

_The DSM-IV Appendix B definition is as follows:[2]
Passive–aggressive personality disorder was listed as an Axis II personality disorder in the DSM-III-R, but was moved in the DSM-IV to Appendix B ("Criteria Sets and Axes Provided for Further Study") because of controversy and the need for further research on how to also categorize the behaviors in a future edition. As an alternative, the diagnosis personality disorder not otherwise specified may be used instead.


A pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicted by four (or more) of the following: 
passively resists fulfilling routine social and occupational tasks
complains of being misunderstood and unappreciated by others
is sullen and argumentative
unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority
expresses envy and resentment toward those apparently more fortunate
voices exaggerated and persistent complaints of personal misfortune
alternates between hostile defiance and contrition
Does not occur exclusively during major depressive episodes and is not better accounted for by dysthymic disorder._


It’s all a bit academic anyway. It’s what they do/don’t do that’s important, the behaviour they exhibit and the effects of that behaviour.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Unfortunately, it never ceases to amaze me the number of persons that find themselves unable to do the right thing at the absolutely most critical time in their lives for them to demonstrate their character. Even more amazing is that it is completely unpredictable who is going to step up and who is going to fall.


When we experience trauma and shock there is no predicting how we will behave, there are some patterns but someone making the wrong choice when they have been dealt a really difficult blow doesn't define their character to me (and if I found out my W had cancer I would probably be in shock too)... what defines character is how they pick themselves up, and how they behave when they are in their right mind. It may be upsetting to the OP that her H retreated when she needed him, but he obviously wasn't in a state to be of any support anyway, the real disappointment is his current inability to acknowledge she needed some support and his unwillingness to step it up since then.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Lon said:


> When we experience trauma and shock there is no predicting how we will behave, there are some patterns but someone making the wrong choice when they have been dealt a really difficult blow doesn't define their character to me (and if I found out my W had cancer I would probably be in shock too)... what defines character is how they pick themselves up, and how they behave when they are in their right mind. It may be upsetting to the OP that her H retreated when she needed him, but he obviously wasn't in a state to be of any support anyway, the real disappointment is his current inability to acknowledge she needed some support and his unwillingness to step it up since then.


I understand what you are saying to some degree about shock. Nobody is suggesting that the OP's husband didn't have the right to be scared and shocked. What blows my mind though is that unlike say a heart attack that is very sudden and usually very treatable, cancer is very slow and she went through years of treatment. Surgery, chemo, radiation, tests, mammograms, etc. He had years to get his stuff together and he didn't. I simply cannot imagine how he can justify his actions and worse, how he can blame her for them!
Sadly, I have seen this happen. Many moons ago I worked for a plastic/reconstructive surgeon and we had a patient who had gone through hell and back with breast cancer. 19 surgeries in two years between the radical mastectomy, lymph node removal, and the subsequent tram flap procedure, multiple tissue expanders and eventually the implants. I assumed she was single or divorced but was shocked to find out she was in fact married for 19 years and yet none of us had ever seen her husband, not even in the waiting room during surgery. She said that he stayed with her for two days following the mastectomy (different surgeon) and then left. Her best friend had to drive her home. We had another patient who had been married for 27 years and came in for a tummy tuck and breast lift. We found it odd that her husband wasn't there for the two consultations and the pre-op visit as in all our other patients, the spouse is there. In going through the post op instructions, the doctor said "I need to meet with your husband too to go over the post op instructions" to which she said that he was in hospice dying of lung cancer. She looked sad but not sad enough to stop her from being "datable" after her husband's eventual death, nevermind that she wasn't by his side when he needed her the most.
Both were jaw dropping experiences for me.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Riverside MFT said:


> 4Sure - I can honestly say that I have know idea what I would do if my wife went through this same situation. I would like to say that I would be strong and capable of being there for her, but I just don't know. It seems like the cancer changed both of you significantly. Maybe to him, you "died" and he may have "died" along with you. But you didn't die. It seems to me like the stronger element (YOU) won the battle over the enemy. You are battle tested and scarred (literally) which has really made you stronger all together. So on the one hand, you have someone who "died" or became weaker and on the other, you have someone who became empowered and ready for adventure. Truth is, you are both different people now than when you first met. I wonder if it is time to date again, and get to know each other. Maybe you'll have 14 more years and then he'll get prostate cancer  and maybe he'll get a glimse of what you went through.
> 
> Regardless, the way he has been treating you is not okay. I hope every man reading this thread recognizes that it is important to be there for your wife especially at crucial times like this. Keep getting stronger 4sure!!!


I like this. I also feel as Riverside, I can't say how I would handle something like this, I pretty much know I would get ANGRY, just the unfairness of it. I would be excruciatingly worried & beside myself to loosing the love of my life. I hope to GOD, even my biggest prayer in life, I never have to experience something like this, cause I think I might fail , or shut down. I can only speculate, but I do feel, in some cases, sometimes it IS harder on the one LIVING than the one who may die. 

I am sorry if that sounds cold but some patients have MORE strength than those that are "whole" during such times, I believe that. 

Just a heatbreaking situation to go through. I often feel for the caretakers in these things, I find those who can ride it out happily, lovingly, attentively pretty near the Saints of our world. I could NOT be a Mother Teresa, ya know, it is not me. 

My father will not even go to funerals. He had a good friend who got MS & was put in a wheelchair, it changed their whole relationship -what they shared was mechanics, drinking in the garage, laughing all hours of the night. It was never the same, my dad got depressed, many would call him cruel but he stopped seeing him, it was too hard on him, he didn't want to remember him like that, he was just a friend but his heart bled for him, he couldn't make him laugh anymore. I guess some would call my Dad a Monster, I don't know, I don't really think he is . Now he is having health problems himself, he is darn blessed as my step mother is the "care-taking" type, she can bring laughter to him when he is down. Just as his MS friend had a similar wife, it jsut seemed to be 2nd nature for her. 

But not everyone is like this! It would be wonderful if we was! 

It is too hard on them emotionally, almost killing them. 

I guess you have to look very very very deep into How it affected him, the underlying fears of loss. I am not trying to give him a pass, but there is still truth to what he said - HE LOST something too.

What a blessing you survived this - you have to have a renwed strengt to beat ANYTHING that comes at you, even this mountain with your husband --if you both want the same thing. Fight for it . Fight to understand, Fight to forgive.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

You know, as I read through your situation, it makes me wonder if you were THE positive force in the relationship all along. At best, maybe he was just basking in your positive effort and energy all along. I just can't get past his stubborn insistance that you apologize to him. Maybe your surprise is because you saw and believed the best in him all along. You went through something that they write great stories about, only to turn to the side and realize that you were doing it alone. Just so sad.

I got some scary news about my health a few years ago, and it really knocked me off my feet for a few weeks. Nothing to compare with your situation, but my wife responded similarly. Maybe it hit me worse due to midlife crisis. I have been my wife's cheerleader through depression that has defined her for 20 years, but she said that I repulsed her during this time, and became deeply resentful. In my case, the therapist has helped me to see that it was driven by fear and panic over my lack of motivation. She is very dependent on me. 

I personally just don't see this dependence with your husband.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Lon said:


> When we experience trauma and shock there is no predicting how we will behave, there are some patterns but someone making the wrong choice when they have been dealt a really difficult blow doesn't define their character to me (and if I found out my W had cancer I would probably be in shock too)... what defines character is how they pick themselves up, and how they behave when they are in their right mind. It may be upsetting to the OP that her H retreated when she needed him, but he obviously wasn't in a state to be of any support anyway, the real disappointment is his current inability to acknowledge she needed some support and his unwillingness to step it up since then.


Lon, you are far more generous than me


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Wow. This story actually makes me angry. 

I think that would actually be worse than being cheated on. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Originally Posted by Lon 


> When we experience trauma and shock there is no predicting how we will behave, there are some patterns but someone making the wrong choice when they have been dealt a really difficult blow doesn't define their character to me (and if I found out my W had cancer I would probably be in shock too)... what defines character is how they pick themselves up, and how they behave when they are in their right mind. It may be upsetting to the OP that her H retreated when she needed him, but he obviously wasn't in a state to be of any support anyway, the real disappointment is his current inability to acknowledge she needed some support and his unwillingness to step it up since then.



I guess I am generous too because I agree with what LON says. 

I talked to my husband about this last night, stories like this really get to me. He thinks how the husband acted was just WORSE than horrendous, not really any sympathy there, pointing out that it was in no way comparable to what the wife was going through. How do I not agree with that , of coarse I DO ! But I still don't think it is that easy, that cut & dried....

I do not understand *his inablity to apologize *though, he should KNOW how much she needed him during that most vulnerable time -more than any other time in life. And I would agree THIS would be worse than getting cheated on! I can't think of anything worse in life , other than death -that would be easier. 

I guess for him it would be admitting his utter failure, blatant lack of love, it shows everything dark & evil in him -exposes it to the light for all to see and him to deal with. I bet he already judges himself OR just become NUMB to deal with the pain. He sees himself in a hole he can not now crawl out of. Truth is - he NEEDED his own support during that time. That is all that makes sense and he figures he can not take it back, nothing he says now will make a difference, he is screwed.

I don't know. I would NEVER want to be in his shoes. During that or after it trying to make someone understand. He is dirt, of the lowest form. How do you even look at someone you loved and try to make sense of that, no excuses will be accepted. 

Me & my husband are very very different -- for example his Temperment type literally is the SAME as Mother Teresas (she was the poster child for the ISFJ temperment in one of the articles I read) and so is my Best friend- she is an ISFJ too, she has a boyfriend who has many health issues, she didn't care when she met him (not an issue), she handles it so well, so calm, so beautifually, She is someone who almost thrives on being "needed". My husband is like this too. If I ever get sick, I know he will be there in heart, in spirit, he can handle it . 

These type of people are SOOO much better when faced in a care taking role, they have the patience, the calmness, what many of the rest of us just don't have! 

I am not like my husband, if he got sick, I do believe it would be harder ON ME, even he agrees with that! But he accepts me the way I am. He knows that doesn't mean I don't love him. I would never leave him but I would need more support to get through it -than lot of other people. For someone like me, death would be easier. 

Just being honest.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

About 10 years ago my stbxw had an infection due to her coil. In spite of me trying for over a decade to get it checked and changed, she’d kept it in for 23 years. Resulted in a cyst on an ovary the size of an orange and a womb infection such that she needed a full hysterectomy. We were in one of our bad phases at the time. But I was with her every step of the way. Her family doctor was hopeless at first saying it was a woman’s odour, but I knew different, then giving her antibiotics powerful enough to blow her mind, made her vomit and all that stuff. But I persevered and got in for a second opinion and into the hospital for scans and tests. Took her to see the surgeon and checked out all the options. Put money aside for a private op if I wasn’t satisfied with the health service. I was there every day in the hospital, checking up, flowers, fruit, cards and making sure she was ok. That all was ok and going to plan. When she got home I nursed her until her wound had healed, all the while I nursed her.

It wasn’t a good time in our marriage, one of our bad phases. But still I did that stuff because I loved her. To me that is LOVE.

To not support your wife, the one person who should be able to totally depend on you is NOT LOVE. It is a despicable act. It is a demonstration of how much the person does NOT LOVE.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Amen AFEH. Your actions show that you understand the difference between right and wrong, you have made a personal decision to be on the side of right, and when put to the test, you demonstrated your knowledge through your actions in spite of whatever circumstances that get in the way.

Anything else is something else


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes AFEH, but you didn't think your wife was going to DIE, this husband did. Personally, that fact right there would make a huge difference in the way some may *react *-because one is temporary , and the other has a high change of being complete loss and DEATH, the end of life as we know it. A shattering of everything we held dear (if he did before that time ?) 

Much much MORE trumatic to the senses, more support is needed. I never want to have to be that strong. I hope I never have to see it, so when I hear of others who are dealing with it, I try to have some grace about it.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I’m going to persevere with this SA. I know it’s very easy to say “I would do this” or “I would do that”.

I’m coming on two years separated from my stbxw. In fact it’s next month that I start the divorce process. I’m not looking forward to it but I will do it. I’ve already made up my mind that if my stbxw or my x is ever in a life threatening situation then I will be there for her if she should want me to be. It was also one of the things I wrote to her after we’d separated, that if she’s ever in serious need I’ll be there for her. She knows for a fact that I will be and I know she knows that.

I just cannot comprehend anything different, any different behaviour when a person professes to love another. I just cannot comprehend anything different.

Now, if someone wants to demonstrate to me how much they don’t love me all they need do is not help me in my time of need. That’s all they need do. Then I will know that they do not love me even though they profess they do.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I’m going to persevere with this SA. I know it’s very easy to say “I would do this” or “I would do that”.
> 
> I’m coming on two years separated from my stbxw. In fact it’s next month that I start the divorce process. I’m not looking forward to it but I will do it. I’ve already made up my mind that if my stbxw or my x is ever in a life threatening situation then I will be there for her if she should want me to be. It was also one of the things I wrote to her after we’d separated, that if she’s ever in serious need I’ll be there for her. She knows for a fact that I will be and I know she knows that.
> 
> ...


You are a man of honor. In sickness and in health literally means standing by your partner when they are sick AND dying, not running away because things got tough. Those that do are flat out cowards. Even more unbelievable is that this woman's husband refuses to apologize for his behavior!


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

AFEH said:


> I’m going to persevere with this SA. I know it’s very easy to say “I would do this” or “I would do that”.
> 
> I just cannot comprehend anything different, any different behaviour when a person professes to love another. I just cannot comprehend anything different.
> 
> Now, if someone wants to demonstrate to me how much they don’t love me all they need do is not help me in my time of need. That’s all they need do. Then I will know that they do not love me even though they profess they do.


Your right, it is EASY to say, most have never walked in it and won't have too. The majority can't even remain "emotionally" present when things are GOOD - let alone a TEST of FIRE like this. 

I once talked to someone about this kind of topic, she was saying how she sat beside her old boyfriends bedside as he was dying. See, I can literally start tearing up within SECONDS of thinking about a similar thing in my own marriage. I really shouldn't go there in my mind because it upsets me TOO much, my husband tells me I worry too much. 

But she told me something very valuable -- she never felt she would have the strength to do that either, but when it happened, she heard the news, you JUST DO. She said the strength will just come, you can't explain it and until it happens, you won't understand it. 

I know as we grow older, these types of things "happen", but I would so not be prepared NOW. My love is freaking INTENSE for my husband, I KNOW I wouldn't leave or walk away, but the PAIN OF THIS, this WORRY of death, loss, things never the same again, *it would be equally as INTENSE for me*. I would be reduced to a walking basketcase, I would likely need meds to cope, along with a support group for spouses, heck I am not sure what all I might need. And I know I would be angry. The Loss of control, the inability to do ANYTHING to help him, to FIX this, to make him better. 

Yeah, I'd have to get the hell over it and I probably would, I'd go find a forum for it (that is what I do) and write my heart out, some of us are fighters, we can make it. I hope I would be of that type. 

Halien said something about his therapist saying how his wife was *driven by fear and panic *over some sudden illness he had, and that she was very "dependent" on him, that SHE reacted similar to this husband. 

Does that mean his wife never loved him? I just couldn't say that. That's all my point is.

If 4SURE agrees with the majority of responses on here, she might as well call the Divorce Lawyer right now -because he is a Monster , he never loved her a day of her marraige. 

If I believed that, I surely wouldn't want to make it work, I would want out and NOW. Maybe that needs to be her plan of action, I don't know. 

http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/news/Jul2001/IllnessMarriageandDivorce.html


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

I do have 4Sure in mind when I post. And I really don’t know how far to go and feel maybe I’ve gone too far already.

What do we “accept” in life? What is normal behaviour in these things? It is the subject of passive aggression that keeps me in the thread. I really do wish I’d known about it in my marriage.

A while back I was really depressed, had suicidal thoughts and told my wife I was suicidal. I thought I’ll tell her, she’ll help me out. A week went past. Nothing, no response whatsoever. So after a week I told her again. Still nothing, still no response. So I went to see the doc. He was absolutely useless, just wanted to give me pills. So I took myself off on a spiritual journey for a while and learnt a bit about myself. At sometime later I asked my wife why she didn’t help, why she didn’t do or say anything. Her response? She was researching on the internet about suicide. I depended on her. She could have told my brother, my sons, my mother (father dead at the time). But no. Complete and utter silence. Was that Passive Aggression? Did I somehow deserve that Passive Aggression? Did she want me dead? I’ll never ever know.

But I did learn that I could never look to her for compassion or emotional support. That I could never look to her to take care of me as I age. All this stuff added up to our “split” and separation and my determination with the divorce and why I don’t go for a reconciliation.

I’m just trying to give 4Sure an alternative perspective with this PA stuff. One that I wish I’d been given so at least I knew about it. It is very real but unless you know about it, it is hidden, invisible.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

AFEH said:


> I do have 4Sure in mind when I post. And I really don’t know how far to go and feel maybe I’ve gone too far already.
> 
> What do we “accept” in life? What is normal behaviour in these things? It is the subject of passive aggression that keeps me in the thread. I really do wish I’d known about it in my marriage.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry you went through that! How awful and worse that she wasn't fighting tooth and nail to get you help. 
Do you really think this is PA though in the case of 4sure's husband? What I mean is was it PA then? I am not so sure. I think he is acting PA now but not sure if that is what it was back then. Maybe he couldn't handle it. I understand the initial shock and fear, I really do. I have been tested in that arena myself with my husband a year ago. The thing I don't get is like I posted, cancer is ongoing. So he had amble opportunity to get his act together and get in the fight. All those appointments and such and he wasn't there for her. Was that PA? She said their marriage was awesome prior, so it seems odd that he would suddenly be PA. Now? Heck yes he is. The fact that he will not apologize speaks alot. SA hit the nail on the head with the reason. He doesn't want to admit his own failures in his actions towards his wife. I simply cannot imagine how his pride comes in the way though. She literally almost died. An apology is too much?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

4sure said:


> AFEH
> So right you are. I knew there was something wrong with him, just couldn't put my finger on it. I figured all this out about 2 years ago. I didn't take action then because I was dx with cancer. Now that my health is improving I realize I have to take care of me.
> 
> PA behavior didn't surface that often before the diagnoses. Perhaps I looked the other way because he was a great guy. When he wasn't there for me during treatments I called him out on it, and the ugly PA aggressor emerged.
> ...


ANd you, AFEH, was absolutely dead on RIGHT with bringing that up- so good for you to be on this thread! 

You feel VERY strongly because of your own experience. You needed a hell of alot more from your wife, it was the last straw. I am sure I would feel the same. I don't know much about PA, I am coming more from an imagined emotional breakdown point of view because I likely love too much and wouldn't be able to handle it. It is all in my head. 

Once my son had to get bloodwork & I stupidly asked the Doctor what could be the worst thing that could be wrong with him, he answers Cancer, I literally worried for 24 hrs a day until those damn results came in. 

4Sure says here in this post that he wants HER to take back some of the things SHE said to him, but SHE refuses -because she meant them, why should she, she asks. So hmmmm, I wonder what SHE said to him? Personally I find WORDS much more forgiveable than ACTIONS or LACK OF ACTIONS in this case, so he is just being a downright stubborn mule in this, with a good measure of PA I am sure.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

PA is really really complex. Plus it means getting inside a PA’s mind and thinking like they do, or at least trying to. And you may imagine, the less you actually do think like them, the harder it is to do.

PA’s have to have a “victim target” to be passive aggressive with. That victim target will have done something in the past to have upset them, to have offended them. (PA’s normally have weak egos, easily offended, slighted). The PA gets their revenge for the insult, offence, by way of passive aggression. The whole idea for the PA is not to let the victim target know it is they who are hurting them!

That’s way different to full on open confrontation (that’s me by the way but I guess you know that!). In some terms I’m called a Rhino, my wife a Hedgehog. It’s the hedgehog who’s the passive aggressive. With Rhino’s it’s all over and done with “in a flash”. We’re quick to anger and quick to forgive. And we find easy to forgive and we do “forget”. It’s like we “shelve” things in a cupboard, never to be thought of again unless there is a trigger. It’s in our long term memory.

With hedgehogs they hold onto hurts, offences for years, decades. They internalise it all and think about it often. Sometimes on a daily basis for years and decades! In that way, it stays in their short term memory because they keep refreshing it. Can you imagine that! My stbxw could come out with a supposed offence from years ago in an instance and right in the heat of an argument!

And the initial offence gets elaborated and changed, it kind of involves as time goes by such that it looks like nothing at all concerning the initial offence. In fact it may even not have been an offence! But the hedgehog never confronted it to find out what it was all about! It is crazy. But real, so very very real.

Over time the PA becomes deluded about what actually happened. That is, they really and utterly believe the “evolved offence”. It becomes their new reality. And because they get deluded they also get paranoid. They actually believe that others are “out to get them” because they are out to get others. That is, they project their innermost values, beliefs and thoughts onto others!



So 4Sure’s H may well believe that sometime in the past she deliberately and consciously hurt him. And it may be that hurt which he got his Passive/Aggression/Revenge for by not helping her out in her time of need.

And if it is PA revenge, 4Sure should never apologise for it even if she has a mind to. Why? Because in her H’s eyes that will confirm in his mind that her hurting him was deliberate and the event actually happened.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Wow, that is complicated alright !! 

I am a major RHINO - I get angry, I confront, I speak it all, when I forgive, it is forgiven and buried. Until it is worked out, I keep confronting, I would be like a pit bull till it was settled. 

I could never live with a passive aggressive spouse -- I can not even fathom that kind of delusion, but I know you know your stuff!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SA, If there’s still love there on both sides and a will to live a better marriage then I honestly think in these cases it needs like South Africa’s “Truth and Reconciliation Process”. I really do.

Both 4Sure and her H will have their own unique versions of the same events in their heads. They will have their own “truths”. I think of them as alternate realities.

Look, here’s the last message I have from my wife “told me you did not love me I tricked you into marriage you must have had this on your mind from the day I married you”. That’s my wife’s truth, her reality. I used to think she said these types of things to a) confuse me and b) hurt me and I can say in the past she was extremely successful at both.

What I actually told her was that because she would not respect my boundaries and would not come to MC with me then I withdraw my love from her. That I have decided to no longer love her. That part is true, but after 42 years of loving her and after she’d booked her flight away from here. The second part about tricking me etc. is a total and complete fabrication. But I think she actually believes it. So she is deluded. I actually think it’s a projection!

But for 4Sure and her H to get to a “common truth” or a common reality, something they can both agree on, to get to that place they both need to be totally honest and open. That is, they will both have to make themselves totally vulnerable to one another (yes, your Topic!). How likely do you think that is to happen. If it’s anything like the pain between my wife and I, they just will not go there because now their defences are well and truly up.

It would need one heck of a counsellor/coach to get them through this.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Wow, that is complicated alright !!
> 
> I am a major RHINO - I get angry, I confront, I speak it all, when I forgive, it is forgiven and buried. Until it is worked out, I keep confronting, I would be like a pit bull till it was settled.
> 
> I could never live with a passive aggressive spouse -- I can not even fathom that kind of delusion, but I know you know your stuff!


Ha! I'm sure we'd have a jolly old time SA. I can only imagine with two Rhinos a sense of humour is needed, by at least one of them. But the thought of getting “issues” resolved quickly and with absolutely no dregs left over is highly appealing. But I bet I’d win every single argument because I’m always right. Ha!


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Before cancer H wasn't that bad nothing I couldn't handle. We hardly fought, when we did we both made up. He would display mild forms of PA.

I wasn't alone in all this. I did have other family members who were awesome. My medical team was fantastic. H just wasn't there, emotionally he detached.

He says he dealt with it the best way he could. He thought I was going to die (although no drs. ever used the word die) he had to protect himself so he wouldn't loose it. He had to continue working. His mind would run wild, and all the time trying to figure out how he would be a single dad to our 8yo son. He was angry, mainly at God, and was trying to hide it from me. He knew I certainly didn't need an angry explosive husband.

Here's my issue with his excuses. Dr. says I have cancer, and his mind jumps to she's going to die. WHAT!! Where's that tenacious spirit I know he has, I've seen it a thousand times. How could he count me out that easy? Where's his faith?

Since I'm getting physically stronger we have had several arguments, in fact I have lashed out at him. I have lost respect for him. I basically told him he was a wussy. The first time I really needed him, and he rejects me. He put himself above me. I don't trust him, I can't and won't depend on him for any emotional support, and I won't make the mistake again to rely on him.

Yes this has crushed him. That is how I feel. I have never said anything near as bad to him in the past. He says I don't get to choose how he dealt with the news anymore than he gets to choose how I handled it. What I said was down right cruel.

He has started to make an effort. Back in June he told me he would go with me to the PET Scan I had to go to. I told him no, I'll go by myself. He says "see I try and you shoot me down." I needed him then, not so much now. I feel if he can't be with me in the mud, then don't try to show up when I'm clean. I don't need him now. I'm probably wrong for this, idk.

He'll put forth this effort when I decline then he plays his 'get even' PA games.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

4sure said:


> He says he dealt with it the best way he could. He thought I was going to die (although no drs. ever used the word die) he had to protect himself so he wouldn't loose it. He had to continue working. His mind would run wild, and all the time trying to figure out how he would be a single dad to our 8yo son. He was angry, mainly at God, and was trying to hide it from me. He knew I certainly didn't need an angry explosive husband.
> 
> Here's my issue with his excuses. Dr. says I have cancer, and his mind jumps to she's going to die. WHAT!! Where's that tenacious spirit I know he has, I've seen it a thousand times. How could he count me out that easy? Where's his faith?


I am NOT trying to defend your husbands actions by not being there --- BUT I DO understand his mindet in the face of this, I would be exactly like him-other than I would probably stick around being an angry basketcase. 

I have seen umpteen times in my life people who had overwhelming faith , their families and .....they died. 2 of them was Breast cancer. They had faith to move mountains, these were praying Christians.

It was me who told one mother , who was talking about her daughter having low grade fevers for a few months, to get her to the Doctor NOW, I even spoke out of my mouth "It could be cancer" -that girl had leukemia! Had that MOM did more pessimisic worrying & got that girl there earlier instead of relying on faith, she might have lived. Churchs praying for her, her Mother had so much faith, she wanted to stop the treatments, but the dad wouldn't let her, she still died. All her youth groups, Pasters who prayed, beside themselves, wasn't supposed to happen. God is supposed to heal when we cry out- When we believe. 


This is how I am (your husband may be similar)it is a blessig in some ways, a CURSE in others........ I literally *NEED *to deal with reality, the facts, the statistics, faith has failed too many, and for many many people, they are just not wired to be optimistic in ALL things all the time, it truly is a defense mechenism.

I would have been just like your husband, spending a huge amount of emotioanl energy feeling --how am I going to go on without her, raise my son. I can think of some worse things he could be thinking if he really didn't love you. 

All I am saying is - I can understand your husbands fears in this, his anger, his helplessness. 

You also said -where was his tenacious spirit, you seen it a thousand times. Maybe your husband has my temperment or something ,I don't know, but I am very TENACIOUS in just about everything in life (I even used that as a username on another forum) but when it comes to a possible death of a loved one, I would literally turn into a puddle or worthless mud to be trampled on. It is the ONLY thing in my personal life I feel I couldn't handle. 

You say the DOcs never said you was going to die, but your opening post said 1) it was a FAST Growing cancer - anyone who knows anything about Breast cancer knows these ARE THE KILLERS -your husband likely knew this , I am sure he hopped online & read enough to destroy him in just an hour. 2) Doctors had to move FAST, right away, to keep it from lymph nodes 3) they had to give you the STRONGEST chemo drug avialable the 1st time -because it was so aggressive 4) and you said yourself "Yes, it was BAD".

If I personally heard all of this - sorry -it would = death in my mind also. It is too alarming. For someone like myself , it would have been against the odds. Doctors do not want to say anymore than they have too, why upset the family. YOu do what you have to do, and say as little as you need. After all, sometimes patients do beat the odds. 

I understand this means little to you, but I just wanted to say, it is not unheard of for someone to not be optimistic in the face of something this severe at all. This was your husbands way*. It was wrong*, but it is all he knew at the time he coudln't hold his own head up-his anger could have caused more heartache had he been there, who knows. He needed his own support to deal with his emotions. NOONE could give him a guarentee back then, and that is all that would have *satisfied his soul *at the time.

Let him read what I said here, I bet he will identify with every word. And i get all of this from JUST imagining the pain, not even exeriencing it firsthand. To me, it would be a descent into the darkest place there imaginable. 

Me saying all of this on here will just have other people think I am a bad person, so what benefit do I have to even leave this post. I just wanted to be a lone voice for your husband, if the man had any love at all before this. 

Again, just in relatation to his mindset, NOT his actions of not being there.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

4sure said:


> Before cancer H wasn't that bad nothing I couldn't handle. We hardly fought, when we did we both made up. He would display mild forms of PA.
> 
> I wasn't alone in all this. I did have other family members who were awesome. My medical team was fantastic. H just wasn't there, emotionally he detached.
> 
> ...


I can't amagine the feelings of abandonment. I'm curious, though, if he ever withdrew when you had previous, smaller medical issues? He's trying to make it sound like the cancer was the reason for his behavior, but I just wonder if the PA issue was there before.

My wife's therapist told me in private meetings (with wife's approval) that my wife is one of those who dwells on the 10% of the negative. She held tremendous resentment. Now, she is really trying to change this. I has the flu for the only time in my life, and I only remember her being angry because I had collapsed in the bathroom floor and was preventing the kids from using it.

The cellular metabolic disorder that I have is from a very mild enzyme mutation. When the doctors identified the enzyme a few years ago, they did lots of pulmonary tests also. The diaphragm is targeted mostly. My heart was stopping over a hundred times per night from weak breathing muscles. I've surprised them by regaining the strength, but virtually all adult cases of this problem have respiratory paralysis as the mode of death. I just couldn't accept this for a while. It did explain why I had respiratory innfections all the time recently, though. I could no longer even cough. I've been a muscular, strong guy for my whole life. After a few weeks of walking around in a daze, my wife told me that I repulsed her. With all the tests and therapy, many of which were overnight, my repiratory therapist was surprised to learn that I was married. I guess the hurt was one of the reasons I took a radical aproach to training and regained 80% of my breathing strength.

My wife's sister now has cancer. I'm a little envious of her compassion, but being grown up about it. My wife apologizes all the time. I know that if I'm in a situation of weakness, it terrifies her, though. It's something that I'm trying to accept.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Halien said:


> I know that if I'm in a situation of weakness, it terrifies her, though. It's something that I'm trying to accept.


I'm one that stinks at compassion. I just don't have it. I'm one of those people that just stands there like an idiot not having a clue what I'm supposed to do when someone is sick. I think I'm just too logical and this doesn't compute. It is certainly not one of my gifts. 

And when my husband is sick I find it's worse because I don't deal well when he's down. I then have to face that he's an actual human and that scares me. I don't like seeing him weak. Normally he's this tough, push through anything cop so when he's sick it unnerves me. I also don't like change. So just the simple act of him being home from work when he's ill is unsettling. I thrive on predictable routines and schedules.

Thankfully I'm aware of all this so I deal just fine. Being around sick people puts me out of my comfort zone but it's okay I just use my intelligence to figure out what to do. I would never ever bail on my husband if he were ill. I would simply communicate that I'm clueless and that I would appreciate it if he told me what he wanted/needed as opposed to expecting me to just "know".


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

I looked over your other threads, you essentially frame your husband as a completely defective spouse, but here you say he was a good spouse up until you got the cancer.

How much did he truly change after the cancer and how much is it your change in perception of him seeking ways to dislike him?

Why would you expect him to handle your highly likely death well?

Did he get any counseling or support group while you were in treatment? Medication?


Cancer is something that happens to both of you.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Atholk said:


> I looked over your other threads, you essentially frame your husband as a completely defective spouse, but here you say he was a good spouse up until you got the cancer.
> 
> How much did he truly change after the cancer and how much is it your change in perception of him seeking ways to dislike him?
> 
> ...


Everything that I have written was after the cancer. He had his issues but nothing I couldn't handle or that would make me want to leave. I joined this site after all treatments had ended, and I was getting better -stronger.

Yes he changed during and after the cancer. Yes how I look at him and feel about him has changed also. I said earlier I lost respect for him, I am hurt, and disappointed in how he rejected me in order to save himself.

How would anyone expect their spouse to react? All I wanted was for him to hold my hand reassure me it would be ok, and we would get thru this. Give me encouragement, and I would do the same for him.

He could have went to counseling, it certainly was available. He chose not to.

And yes cancer happened to both us. He checked out. I had no choice I had to man up and get the job done.

It has been 1 year since all treatments has ended, and he still is distant. He detached emotionally, and now I think he doesn't know how to get back. His numbness helped him thru the cancer time, but now it is hurting us.


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## 4sure (Aug 8, 2010)

Halien said:


> I can't amagine the feelings of abandonment. I'm curious, though, if he ever withdrew when you had previous, smaller medical issues? He's trying to make it sound like the cancer was the reason for his behavior, but I just wonder if the PA issue was there before.


No he was there for me. 

Yes PA was there before. I didn't know what it was though. I knew something wasn't right. I thought he had a mental issue. He did things that made no sense to me. 

ex. He knows I do not like Sprite. Each time he would stop at the store he would get each of us a drink. What would he get me, a Sprite.:scratchhead: I would tell him specifically get me a Barqs rootbeer. Still he brought me a Sprite.
Made no sense to me. There are countless other things that is just one.

I have told him many times. "If you are upset with me tell me. If I have offended you I promise it wasn't intentional, I'll apologize and make it right." He looks at me and says "nope I'm good."


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